Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine

Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: PeterWithesShin on October 10, 2018, 10:02:44 PM

Title: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 10, 2018, 10:02:44 PM
https://www.avfc.co.uk/News/2018/10/10/club-statement-triple-appointment

Quote
Aston Villa Football Club is delighted to announce the appointments of Dean Smith as our new Head Coach, John Terry as Assistant Coach and Jesus Garcia Pitarch as Sporting Director.

Smith, a lifelong Villa fan, is known for his exciting and attractive brand of football which he implemented in his previous posts at both Brentford and Walsall.

Terry spent the final year of his illustrious playing career at Villa Park as he captained the club to the play-off final last season and brings a wealth of experience with him to his new role from his time as skipper of both Chelsea and England.

And Pitarach has occupied Director of Football roles at both Valencia and Atletico Madrid in his native Spain.

During his time at Valencia, the club won the La Liga title and UEFA Cup and Atletico lifted the Europa League and the European Super Cup during his tenure.

CEO Christian Purslow said: “These three appointments represent the start of a new era and direction at Aston Villa and we are delighted to secure their services after an extensive search.

“Dean has a clear and successful coaching philosophy as well as a real understanding of Aston Villa Football Club. He is also knowledgeable about the Championship.

“The board welcomes him to the club and is looking forward to working with him and his staff.

“John is one of the most decorated players in English football, has an affinity with the club and is ready to make the next step in his career working alongside Dean.

“And Jesus also brings a huge amount of experience in his particular role having worked with some of the biggest clubs in Europe. He will ensure the club has an integrated approach running from the academy through the U23s and into the first-team.”
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chris_Jephcott on October 10, 2018, 10:03:51 PM
And it’s official!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on October 10, 2018, 10:04:39 PM
Fucking hell!

Welcome all!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nev on October 10, 2018, 10:05:52 PM
Wow, that was quick! I bet he couldn't resist. Go for it Deano, this is your big chance.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: HK Villan on October 10, 2018, 10:06:26 PM
Splendid news!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: jcsutv on October 10, 2018, 10:06:43 PM
Can't wait for Jesus to meet God in the holy trinity.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: QuintonVilla on October 10, 2018, 10:06:54 PM
He is the right man at the right time. Not the glitz and glam of an Henry but exactly what we need.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: garyshawsknee on October 10, 2018, 10:07:00 PM
Welcome on board, chuffed for him. Let the good times roll.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on October 10, 2018, 10:07:03 PM
Head Coach and not manager.  Is that a first for the Villa?

Welcome and I hope this new approach is a success for everyone.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Meanwood Villa on October 10, 2018, 10:07:12 PM
All the best to the new guys. Make us proud.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villafirst on October 10, 2018, 10:07:31 PM
Brilliant news! JT coming home as well....
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SheffieldVillain on October 10, 2018, 10:07:41 PM
Great stuff! Go on then Deano, make yourself a Villa legend.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VILLA MOLE on October 10, 2018, 10:07:54 PM
smith out !!!! first …. welcome back
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on October 10, 2018, 10:08:13 PM
Have to say that while it’s always exciting to be linked with “names” like Henry, I’m really pleased it’s Smith. I think he’s going to be our Dyche or Howe.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on October 10, 2018, 10:08:19 PM
Happy with this but hope Smith wanted Terry rather than him being foisted upon him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on October 10, 2018, 10:09:18 PM
Quote from: Villafirst on October 10, 2018, 10:07:31 PM
JT coming home as well....

Eugh.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: itmustbe_it is! on October 10, 2018, 10:09:43 PM
Yes yes yes yes yes

Villa are back !!!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Tucson Villain on October 10, 2018, 10:09:58 PM
I think it is a good appointment. Onward and upward.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on October 10, 2018, 10:10:00 PM
Happy enough with this.

One word of caution, Dean is a bit of a slow burner. Takes a while for his methods to really click into place at Walsall and Brentford. Yes better players here but they need to be organised and coached. He will do that but needs time.

I think our rest of the season will probably be similar to when SB came in. Next season is when I really expect us to look good providing FFP dosen't cripple us.

I would imagine Richard O'Kelly will be coming in to join the staff. Dean's number 2 at Walsall and Brentford. Used to manage Hereford.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Bad English on October 10, 2018, 10:10:07 PM
At fucking last. UTV!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: richtheholtender on October 10, 2018, 10:10:24 PM
Welcome all!! Come on villa
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Fred Crump on October 10, 2018, 10:11:08 PM
Bloody fantastic news ! Good luck Deano and JT - UTV!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on October 10, 2018, 10:11:53 PM
Triple signing and at last a shape is coming together.  Well done to Christian Purslow for dumping Steve Bruce, not playing all of this out in the media and going in for Smith and Terry quickly and effectively.  Top class, professional. Will be interesting to see who else they bring in with them but we have a Manager who wants to play proper football, has an Assistant who is utterly respected and we have a Sporting Director with a great pedigree.  I'm glad we have had games moved for telly now.  Swift, decisive, meaningful.  Excellent.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 10, 2018, 10:12:06 PM
I'm a lot more in favour of this then I am some of the options, but he wouldn't have been my top choice.

Still, let's see what he can do. Hopefully we can play some decent stuff. Should add a few thousand to the Abertawe gate too!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: serbentoflight on October 10, 2018, 10:12:41 PM
Smith out!!! 😉
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: auntiesledd on October 10, 2018, 10:12:57 PM
Crivens, I wasn't expecting such a statement at this time of night!

I'm excited by the appointments, so welcome one & all. May you sort out this fecking shambles & bring organisation, excitement and success to Aston Villa. :)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 10, 2018, 10:13:48 PM
Happy enough but we need patience and to be realistic. It will probably take 3 years to be champions of England, and another couple to start winning the European Cup on a regular basis. At least we've wrapped up the division 2 title and FA Cup this season now though.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: West Derby Villan on October 10, 2018, 10:14:14 PM
Bloody hell !
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Phil from the upper holte on October 10, 2018, 10:14:18 PM
Social media ruins all the fun.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on October 10, 2018, 10:14:32 PM
I like that he's head coach and therefore will be on the training ground rather than sending his unskilled lackeys to do his job.

He's done well so far, let's hope he can grow more and into our club. He knows what it means, hell get full support from the fans.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Phil from the upper holte on October 10, 2018, 10:14:38 PM
Welcome to all well happy
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KRS on October 10, 2018, 10:14:45 PM
Excellent decision! Dean Smith was the best option out of all the contenders particularly those with no management experience at all. Looking forward to seeing some attractive attacking football and Terry helping sure things up at the back.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dave P on October 10, 2018, 10:15:39 PM
Great news. I was seduced by the idea of Henry but this is a much more sensible option.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on October 10, 2018, 10:16:14 PM
Fucking superb news. Just superb. Welcome Dean
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TheMalandro on October 10, 2018, 10:16:26 PM
Delighted.

He's going to get some serious support at Villa Park.
Let's get after it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VancouverLion on October 10, 2018, 10:16:27 PM
YES!! excellent news, well happy with this  ;D
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on October 10, 2018, 10:16:43 PM
Smith and Terry now this makes sense rather than Henry and Terry. Delighted.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Gary Penrice on October 10, 2018, 10:17:40 PM
Welcome home Deano!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: saunders_heroes on October 10, 2018, 10:17:47 PM
Right let’s sell out the ground next week and get behind him and the team. Up the Villa!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villafirst on October 10, 2018, 10:17:56 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on October 10, 2018, 10:09:18 PM
Quote from: Villafirst on October 10, 2018, 10:07:31 PM
JT coming home as well....

Eugh.


? Odd reaction....you obviously missed JT's influence on the club last season, especially the defence and Jack...
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on October 10, 2018, 10:18:22 PM
Thank goodness that's sorted!

Gives us a bit of time before the Swansea game.

Welcome back Dean and John!

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: andyh on October 10, 2018, 10:18:41 PM
Brilliant news.
I love the way the club just works away in the background and ignores all the shit going on in the media. This has obviously been going on for a few days and they have just quietly gone on about their business.

Welcome home Dean.
Welcome back JT
Welcome Jesús

HERE WE GO.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on October 10, 2018, 10:19:12 PM
Brill E Ant
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: adrenachrome on October 10, 2018, 10:19:19 PM
Very pleased with the way it has turned out.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: walsall villain on October 10, 2018, 10:19:24 PM
Really hope he can get us playing in the very positive way Brentford do. Exciting news.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chris Smith on October 10, 2018, 10:19:35 PM
Quote from: serbentoflight on October 10, 2018, 10:12:41 PM
Smith out!!! 😉

I love you too.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: wozwebs on October 10, 2018, 10:20:09 PM
Absolutely delighted with this. Positive news for once. Let’s all come together and get behind them all and get that promotion. Still plenty of time. Hogan will be chuffed too.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 10, 2018, 10:20:14 PM
Hoping this is inspired and there won't be any new manager threads for decades to come!

Welcome, Dean.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on October 10, 2018, 10:20:43 PM
So he's not Manager?  This means that Pitarch will do some of the recruiting and act like a DoF?  Head Coach and Assistant sound to me like they will be out there on the training pitches, which is good.  I'd like to know more about the set up and look forward to the presser.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: garyshawsknee on October 10, 2018, 10:20:56 PM
I think this is a far smarter move than an inexperienced glamour name. Knows the league, knows our squad, knows our strengths and weaknesses.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on October 10, 2018, 10:21:00 PM
I tell you what, Brentford fans are going to fucking hate us!

First Hogan and now Smith!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dante Lavelli on October 10, 2018, 10:21:05 PM
Quote from: PeterWithe on October 10, 2018, 10:08:19 PM
Happy with this but hope Smith wanted Terry rather than him being foisted upon him.

Sorry to post this again, but the below suggests he was selected as Brentford's Head Coach because he is good at implementing other people's vision rather than having big ideas/ego himself.  Therefore I'd guess he is flexible enough to accommodate Terry.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2718752-brentfords-moneyball-way-to-beat-football-teams-with-huge-budgets
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 10, 2018, 10:21:56 PM
Quote from: Ad@m on October 10, 2018, 10:21:00 PM
I tell you what, Brentford fans are going to fucking hate us!

First Hogan and now Smith!

If Smith has the same impact as Hogan the feeling will be mutual.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Tuscans on October 10, 2018, 10:22:03 PM
Shocked in a good way. Expected it to drag on for another fortnight and end up with Moyes.

It has a very different felling compared to previous appointments and set ups to it with these three coming in...well done Board and all involved.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on October 10, 2018, 10:22:12 PM
Quote from: Villafirst on October 10, 2018, 10:17:56 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on October 10, 2018, 10:09:18 PM
Quote from: Villafirst on October 10, 2018, 10:07:31 PM
JT coming home as well....

Eugh.


? Odd reaction....you obviously missed JT's influence on the club last season, especially the defence and Jack...

He played 32 games for us in his 20 year career, and didn't move to the area in that time. He's hardly coming home.

Anyway, that's all I'll say because this all sounds like good news to me (apart from the Terry bit).
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lizz on October 10, 2018, 10:22:22 PM
Onwards and upwards, good news.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villa Lew on October 10, 2018, 10:22:38 PM
Great news can't remember the last time I was so excited about a Villa appointment, well done Nassef and Wes.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Louzie0 on October 10, 2018, 10:23:27 PM
Great stuff!
Dream team.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Walmley_Villa on October 10, 2018, 10:24:00 PM
Villa finally arrive in the 21st century. I'm very pleased.

Patience and backing required.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: purpletrousers on October 10, 2018, 10:24:26 PM
Quote from: Walmley_Villa on October 10, 2018, 10:24:00 PM
Villa finally arrive in the 21st century. I'm very pleased.

Patience and backing required.
Let the Empire building begin. Great news.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The_ads on October 10, 2018, 10:25:04 PM
Give me my club back Deano. Behind you 110%. UTV
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 10, 2018, 10:25:06 PM
(https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/43663922_2151009121609812_2276477922673950720_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&oh=59fd6a360559e06322fd5faa01a66b65&oe=5C4B4C80)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on October 10, 2018, 10:25:43 PM
Really goes to show how little the media knew about this. Even the local rags. We've gone about this perfectly, quietly behind the scenes. And it's entirely possible that Henry opted for Monaco having been told Smith would be manager and not him. It didn't have to be that Smith was second choice to Henry or Faria for that matter.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on October 10, 2018, 10:25:56 PM
Awesome news. No way Smith would have taken it on if he didn't think he could work with Terry. And Pitarch is the icing on the cake. Congrats to the new owners and best possible wishes to the new staff. UTV
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: rob_bridge on October 10, 2018, 10:26:10 PM
Welcome Deano- do your best. That's all we ask
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Walmley_Villa on October 10, 2018, 10:26:39 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on October 10, 2018, 10:25:43 PM
Really goes to show how little the media knew about this. Even the local rags. We've gone about this perfectly, quietly behind the scenes. And it's entirely possible that Henry opted for Monaco having been told Smith would be manager and not him. It didn't have to be that Smith was second choice to Henry or Faria for that matter.

Agreed
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: itmustbe_it is! on October 10, 2018, 10:27:19 PM
Quote from: rob_bridge on October 10, 2018, 10:26:10 PM
Welcome Deano- do your best. That's all we ask

Do your best and get us promoted. Obvs
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ktvillan on October 10, 2018, 10:27:26 PM
Quite intrigued by this - would probably have preferred a Nuno type appointment but of all the British names mentioned Smith is the best option and seems more in the mould of an Eddie Howe style than the usual British suspects. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TonyD on October 10, 2018, 10:27:30 PM
Holy shit.   My preferred combo.   
Talk about feel good factor. 
This is going to reunite the club.

Somebody needs to find the keys to upper Trinity..

Holy shit!!!!!

Villa are back....
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on October 10, 2018, 10:27:52 PM
"And Jesus also brings a huge amount of experience in his particular role having worked with some of the biggest clubs in Europe. He will ensure the club has an integrated approach running from the academy through the U23s and into the first-team.”

What does that mean? Integrated? Is it witchcraft?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ger Regan on October 10, 2018, 10:28:05 PM
Happy with that. Also very happy to see sky sports news look like fucking idiots. Was watching it at around seven today and the line was "we understand that there's been no contact".
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on October 10, 2018, 10:28:33 PM
Blimey, they did well to keep that quiet, I'm stunned. Welcome Dean and welcome back JT.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Allan C on October 10, 2018, 10:29:05 PM
At last an inspiring set of appointments. Now is the time for patients cos this team will deliver when they’ve repaired the damage caused by the previous manager. I feel so upbeat right now
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VancouverLion on October 10, 2018, 10:29:16 PM
10 weeks ago we were thinking we could go under and the prospect of watching Bruceball for many years to come.
Now we have the third wealthiest owners in English football, Dean Smith as Head Coach with John Terry assistant and a new DOF.

Lets F*****g have it!!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on October 10, 2018, 10:29:41 PM
Cannot wait for the game against Swansea. There's plenty of time to rescue this season and play some lovely football doing it. This will be a huge boost for all of the players we have who love to get forward and score.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on October 10, 2018, 10:30:07 PM
Great News!
Very happy with this.
Come on Deano!!
Patience will be needed especially as bruce has left our defence in a mess. Hopefully Terry can be an influence in this area, though I feel confident Deano can coach defensively as well as encouraging attractive attacking football.
UTV
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: London Villan on October 10, 2018, 10:30:56 PM
The one irritation is that all this could have been done as soon as the new owners took over...
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 10, 2018, 10:30:58 PM
JC only turned water into wine, JGP will perform a real miracle turn Hutton into a defender

/baddumtish
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on October 10, 2018, 10:31:21 PM
Quote from: Allan C on October 10, 2018, 10:29:05 PM
At last an inspiring set of appointments. Now is the time for patients cos this team will deliver when they’ve repaired the damage caused by the previous manager. I feel so upbeat right now

I've been feeling a little groggy. Happy to help in any way I can!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on October 10, 2018, 10:31:21 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on October 10, 2018, 10:27:52 PM
"And Jesus also brings a huge amount of experience in his particular role having worked with some of the biggest clubs in Europe. He will ensure the club has an integrated approach running from the academy through the U23s and into the first-team.”

What does that mean? Integrated? Is it witchcraft?

Be prepared for all manner of weirdness. Passing and moving, Hogan scoring, frogs raining from the sky.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kieron on October 10, 2018, 10:32:02 PM
Deano, give us a wave 👋🏻

Deano, Deano, give us a wave 👋🏻
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Tuscans on October 10, 2018, 10:32:24 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on October 10, 2018, 10:25:43 PM
Really goes to show how little the media knew about this. Even the local rags. We've gone about this perfectly, quietly behind the scenes. And it's entirely possible that Henry opted for Monaco having been told Smith would be manager and not him. It didn't have to be that Smith was second choice to Henry or Faria for that matter.
Yeah there's no way Smith was contacted today for the first time and him and Terry were all tied up in less than 24 hours.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on October 10, 2018, 10:32:33 PM
Quote from: Risso on October 10, 2018, 10:31:21 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on October 10, 2018, 10:27:52 PM
"And Jesus also brings a huge amount of experience in his particular role having worked with some of the biggest clubs in Europe. He will ensure the club has an integrated approach running from the academy through the U23s and into the first-team.”

What does that mean? Integrated? Is it witchcraft?

Be prepared for all manner of weirdness. Passing and moving, Hogan scoring, frogs raining from the sky.

Riss, this might be the start of something very beautiful between you and Scotty
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Pvb1968 on October 10, 2018, 10:32:43 PM
Chuffed to bits, a young manager whose team play great football and has that, don't mess with me Ron dmsaunders look about him with John terry who has been nothing but class with his time with us.  Chuffed, really chuffed.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Des Little on October 10, 2018, 10:32:50 PM
Late to the thread and not read back...is Richard O’Kelly coming with him in any capacity?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 10, 2018, 10:32:54 PM
Right, next announcement... get that fucking upper tier opened for the Swansea game!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: boozey182 on October 10, 2018, 10:33:56 PM
Delighted about Smith. Think he's exactly what we need and am excited about what he can do with our players.

I know nothing about Pitarch, so difficult to feel too strongly about him.

Very wary about The Number Two. I'm not sure how he's qualified for that position, and am worried that he's been forced upon Smith (although I have no idea why that would happen). Just seems very strange that he would have such a prominent role, having never worked with Smith or have any experience anywhere.

There's three big personalities that are coming together that won't know each other very well at all. It's a huge decision for the board to make, and I guess we can only trust that they've done thorough checks.

Come on Deano, let's get something going!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ozzjim on October 10, 2018, 10:34:12 PM
Announcing it tonight suggests it has been in the works for a couple of days at least.

Don't think I have even wanted a Villa manager to do as well from the moment he walks in the door. I would imagine the Danish guy will step up at Brentford and O'Kelly will come to us.

Needs a keeping coach, fitness coach too. I hope Pitarch spends some time sorting the footbll structure.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dave P on October 10, 2018, 10:34:17 PM
Quote from: Des Little on October 10, 2018, 10:32:50 PM
Late to the thread and not read back...is Richard O’Kelly coming with him in any capacity?

Brentford have said a statement on the back room staff will be made in the coming days. I hope Smith surrounds himself with his men as well as Terry.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villa75 on October 10, 2018, 10:34:33 PM
With respect to Walsall and Brentford, expectations are going to be way different at a club like ours. He's going to have to up his win rate considerably if he wants to be a success. I hope this job isn't too big for him, as it has been for a lot of others.

Good luck Dean. You'll have 35,000 of us at Villa Park, in just over a week's time, roaring you on!👍
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on October 10, 2018, 10:34:37 PM
if he can build something for the long term whilst playing some football worth watching he’ll do for me

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Hinckley Dave on October 10, 2018, 10:34:52 PM
Very pleased with this, I like the bloke and what he's done at his previous clubs. Let's all get right behind him and together make this club proud again. Just hope the players get their arses in gear now and show some professional pride themselves. I don't blame everything this season on Bruce myself, players need to take a long hard look at themselves too. Terry as assistant, as long as it was partly Smith's idea too, I think will also work well.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 10, 2018, 10:34:56 PM
I wonder if we will start playing Dexys' "Geno" again?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Pvb1968 on October 10, 2018, 10:35:00 PM
32000 already sold against Swansea, get that upper tier open now and keep it open.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 10, 2018, 10:35:43 PM
Quote from: boozey182 on October 10, 2018, 10:33:56 PM
I know nothing about Pitarch, so difficult to feel too strongly about him.

He was very good when in charge of the Enterprise.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dave P on October 10, 2018, 10:35:57 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on October 10, 2018, 10:34:33 PM
With respect to Walsall and Brentford, expectations are going to be way different at a club like ours. He's going to have to up his win rate considerably if he wants to be a success. I hope this job isn't too big for him, as it has been for a lot of others.

Good luck Dean. You'll have 35,000 of us at Villa Park, in just over a week's time, roaring you on!👍

It’s not like he doesn’t know the expectation. He was expecting it himself 30 years ago. This is why we cannot underestimate the Villa fan angle.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lizz on October 10, 2018, 10:35:57 PM
Quote from: Ger Regan on October 10, 2018, 10:28:05 PM
Happy with that. Also very happy to see sky sports news look like fucking idiots. Was watching it at around seven today and the line was "we understand that there's been no contact".

I love how SSN effectively report speculation (which often sounds like someone's been Googling) as though it's news. Tossers.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nunkin1965 on October 10, 2018, 10:36:11 PM
Over the moon.
Brilliant pairing as far as I’m concerned.
Can’t wait for the next game.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: DaveD on October 10, 2018, 10:36:22 PM
Well. I was not expecting this. Very happy indeed. A complementary combination IMHO. It may work. It may not. But it's been a fine process, well executed and we should applaud that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 10, 2018, 10:37:26 PM
Sky Sports News understands that we've spent the last few days talking even more bollocks than usual. And sack that Sources fella he's even worse at his job than Bruce was at his.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Left Side on October 10, 2018, 10:38:01 PM
Well done Villa, welcome Deano.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on October 10, 2018, 10:39:00 PM
Clear they've been in contact for a while.

The whole process and all the names thrown into the mix has gradually made me open my eyes to Smith.

Very pleased. Feels the safe choice, the right choice and the progressive choice.

It's going to take a while for methods to set in, but I think a simple bit of sensible planning (I.e. what will Swansea do) and both attacking and defensive organisation will see us lick up a little.

Let's have a sell out for Swansea.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: leylandalbion on October 10, 2018, 10:39:22 PM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on October 10, 2018, 10:32:54 PM
Right, next announcement... get that fucking upper tier opened for the Swansea game!
Totally dependant on the stay at homes putting their hands in their pockets.  Get behind the boys and sell out the rest before next Wednesday and it will be opened
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on October 10, 2018, 10:39:29 PM
Love it all !

And the head coach approach is superb .
Dean Smith knows exactly what to do and fair play to Brentford letting him go .
Maybe he was the one all along ?!

Also he must be super excited and I can him like Wilder who is a blade at Sheff u  and now Smith as one of our own coaching and running first team will get the best out of this team .

Excellent Brentford  centreback chris mepham will be in January too I predict.
Check him out for Wales over this international break
He won't want to turn down villa Smith and working with JT but that's a side issue !

Welcome Smith especially .
Get ready for tactics thread
Possession football with a short passing game !

4-2-3-1 formation .

One thing Brentford did struggle to hold on to leads so let's see how we clear that up .

But really enthusiastic and good luck to Brentford moving forward and fair play to what they have done let Smith get going .
Brilliant stuff!!
Up the villa

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 10, 2018, 10:39:45 PM
His first 5 fixtures. Hard to see past 5 wins and us scoring 87 goals.

(https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/43485801_2148969945147063_7284697724417474560_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&oh=5c8fac31a1c3221bc6e716f92925058b&oe=5C554B93)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: black pearl of inchicore on October 10, 2018, 10:40:00 PM
Henry would have bled us dry.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dekko on October 10, 2018, 10:40:17 PM
I still cant shake the feeling that what he did at Brentford was down to their unusual backroom setup etc, but on the other hand he has had both his teams playing attcking football so whatever happens at least thatll be a nice change.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on October 10, 2018, 10:40:55 PM
I particularly like that we have a head coach not a manager
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on October 10, 2018, 10:41:36 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on October 10, 2018, 10:39:45 PM
His first 5 fixtures. Hard to see past 5 wins and us scoring 87 goals.

(https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/43485801_2148969945147063_7284697724417474560_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&oh=5c8fac31a1c3221bc6e716f92925058b&oe=5C554B93)

I reckon the Swansea match, we'll be like Brazil 1970
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 10, 2018, 10:42:07 PM
If we don't win at least twelve of those first five games, he can go.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: curiousorange on October 10, 2018, 10:42:23 PM
Good stuff. I really turned around to the idea over the last couple of days and barring a couple of naysayers on social media, I haven't seen our fanbase this buoyant since the last time we got Terry in.

Welcome, Dean. You know this is the greatest club in the world, so go and create your own little piece of history in it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Richard E on October 10, 2018, 10:42:45 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on October 10, 2018, 10:41:36 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on October 10, 2018, 10:39:45 PM
His first 5 fixtures. Hard to see past 5 wins and us scoring 87 goals.

(https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/43485801_2148969945147063_7284697724417474560_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&oh=5c8fac31a1c3221bc6e716f92925058b&oe=5C554B93)

I reckon the Swansea match, we'll be like Brazil 1970

A load of former players in their 70s?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on October 10, 2018, 10:43:01 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on October 10, 2018, 10:39:45 PM
His first 5 fixtures. Hard to see past 5 wins and us scoring 87 goals.

(https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/43485801_2148969945147063_7284697724417474560_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&oh=5c8fac31a1c3221bc6e716f92925058b&oe=5C554B93)

Winning five might be acceptable at places like Brentford but the expectation level is different now he’s here, I expect nothing less than seven wins from that lot.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on October 10, 2018, 10:43:11 PM
Quote from: boozey182 on October 10, 2018, 10:33:56 PM
Delighted about Smith. Think he's exactly what we need and am excited about what he can do with our players.

I know nothing about Pitarch, so difficult to feel too strongly about him.

Very wary about The Number Two. I'm not sure how he's qualified for that position, and am worried that he's been forced upon Smith (although I have no idea why that would happen). Just seems very strange that he would have such a prominent role, having never worked with Smith or have any experience anywhere.

There's three big personalities that are coming together that won't know each other very well at all. It's a huge decision for the board to make, and I guess we can only trust that they've done thorough checks.

Come on Deano, let's get something going!
Pitarch is highly respected in Spanish football. There's no chance Smith would of took the job if he don't think he can work with Terry. There were loads of us who doubted Terry when he arrived last season bit I thought he was absolutely exemplary for us. Let's not have any negatives tonight. It's one for rejoicing imo. UTV.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on October 10, 2018, 10:43:18 PM
Absolutely delighted. Haven't experienced that "got my first choice" feeling since MON came in (for better or worse).

I have high hopes for this management team and trust them both to get it right, starting with Swansea.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The_ads on October 10, 2018, 10:43:29 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on October 10, 2018, 10:37:26 PM
Sky Sports News understands that we've spent the last few days talking even more bollocks than usual. And sack that Sources fella he's even worse at his job than Bruce was at his.


You say that but they are the real winners. The way they manipulate the market is both underhand and brilliant at the same time.

I also had £40 on it which now pays for my half season ticket
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 10, 2018, 10:43:52 PM
Has a side ever taking such a beating that they've asked for a mercy rule to be used or will Swansea be the first?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: rob_bridge on October 10, 2018, 10:44:03 PM
Quote from: Ger Regan on October 10, 2018, 10:28:05 PM
Happy with that. Also very happy to see sky sports news look like fucking idiots. Was watching it at around seven today and the line was "we understand that there's been no contact".

Ha ha

I remember when MON joined they didn't mention it at all until he was at the ground. Like they were sulking because Pat Murphy got the scoop
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on October 10, 2018, 10:44:27 PM
Smart moves and hopefully an identity at last and more real approach to creating something here. Not just marketing talk with quotes such as the Villa engine, which in all honesty meant fuck all.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tomd2103 on October 10, 2018, 10:45:25 PM
Really pleased with the decision and pleased for him that he has got this opportunity.  I think concerns about him maybe not being a 'name' are offset by Terry being there as well.  Will be a great ride if he gets it right.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TopDeck113 on October 10, 2018, 10:47:13 PM
10/10

Remember the date.  It is when Aston Villa Football Club halted a decade of decline and began the journey that will make us once again one of the English game's pre-eminent clubs.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: bobcat on October 10, 2018, 10:48:21 PM
Really pleased with this appointment, the right man at the right time. Same as John Gregory was.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: lovejoy on October 10, 2018, 10:49:01 PM
Quote from: tomd2103 on October 10, 2018, 10:45:25 PM
Really pleased with the decision and pleased for him that he has got this opportunity.  I think concerns about him maybe not being a 'name' are offset by Terry being there as well.  Will be a great ride if he gets it right.
Weren’t you hanging out for Eddie Howe a few hours ago?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: quinas on October 10, 2018, 10:49:32 PM
You know it's a good appointment when the bridge trolls across the way can do little more that mouth breathe hatefully.

https://www.that lot.com/read.php?1,2568396,page=22
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on October 10, 2018, 10:50:04 PM
At last we have a management team who will make in-game tactical decisions to change something instead of standing like a fat statue.  No more shit half/good half crap.  I'm really enthused now by the new CEO too. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 10, 2018, 10:51:18 PM
Quote from: lovejoy on October 10, 2018, 10:49:01 PM
Quote from: tomd2103 on October 10, 2018, 10:45:25 PM
Really pleased with the decision and pleased for him that he has got this opportunity.  I think concerns about him maybe not being a 'name' are offset by Terry being there as well.  Will be a great ride if he gets it right.
Weren’t you hanging out for Eddie Howe a few hours ago?

No he wasn't. But says a lot about you that your first comment when we have a new head coach is try to score points over another poster.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chris Harte on October 10, 2018, 10:51:38 PM
He's one of our own, he's one of our owwwwwwwn, Dean Smith, he's one of our own....
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on October 10, 2018, 10:51:42 PM
Quote from: brian green on October 10, 2018, 10:19:12 PM
Brill E Ant
Oh you kids:))
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dante Lavelli on October 10, 2018, 10:53:56 PM
Quote from: dekko on October 10, 2018, 10:40:17 PM
I still cant shake the feeling that what he did at Brentford was down to their unusual backroom setup etc, but on the other hand he has had both his teams playing attcking football so whatever happens at least thatll be a nice change.

That's my feelings too.  Tempered by the fact that the new DoF was announced at the same time.  Implying that they are a team of three and that there is an intention to build something similar at Villa.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on October 10, 2018, 10:55:47 PM
Quote from: Dante Lavelli on October 10, 2018, 10:53:56 PM
Quote from: dekko on October 10, 2018, 10:40:17 PM
I still cant shake the feeling that what he did at Brentford was down to their unusual backroom setup etc, but on the other hand he has had both his teams playing attcking football so whatever happens at least thatll be a nice change.

That's my feelings too.  Tempered by the fact that the new DoF was announced at the same time.  Implying that they are a team of three and that there is an intention to build something similar at Villa.

He may not have been in charge of certain aspects, but he wouldn't have been kept in a dark room whilst it all went on. You would hope he could bring some of what he will have learnt from their set up with him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 10, 2018, 10:56:25 PM
This looks a bit of a better attempt at the 'Villa engine' than last time.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on October 10, 2018, 10:58:00 PM
I think the fact that we shelled the entire Bruce staff means Deano can bring in his own men. I do also hope Terry’s presence also unlocks access to some brilliant coaches that maybe Dean wouldn’t have access to alone. I’m looking forward to hearing from both of them.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: achilles on October 10, 2018, 10:58:11 PM
Absolutely brilliant appointment, he will be like a breath of fresh air!

Just can't wait to get down to Villa Park now, look out Swansea!

Welcome Dean, back to your roots!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: richtheholtender on October 10, 2018, 10:58:14 PM
I hope he gets the time and support as previous managers.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dante Lavelli on October 10, 2018, 11:01:03 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on October 10, 2018, 10:56:25 PM
This looks a bit of a better attempt at the 'Villa engine' than last time.

Yeah, that seemed to stop around the first team's door.  There should be more buy in from the key parties on the basis that they're starting from a blank piece of paper and can develop it together.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on October 10, 2018, 11:02:37 PM
Quote from: LeeB on October 10, 2018, 10:55:47 PM
Quote from: Dante Lavelli on October 10, 2018, 10:53:56 PM
Quote from: dekko on October 10, 2018, 10:40:17 PM
I still cant shake the feeling that what he did at Brentford was down to their unusual backroom setup etc, but on the other hand he has had both his teams playing attcking football so whatever happens at least thatll be a nice change.

That's my feelings too.  Tempered by the fact that the new DoF was announced at the same time.  Implying that they are a team of three and that there is an intention to build something similar at Villa.

He may not have been in charge of certain aspects, but he wouldn't have been kept in a dark room whilst it all went on. You would hope he could bring some of what he will have learnt from their set up with him.

Yep. In many ways it's like any other organisation of a certain size. Would you rather a departmental manager spent half their time constantly dealing with sacking people and then relying on their contacts in recruitment companies to send them adequate replacements (for a big slice of commission for each appointment - meaning that a constant churn keeps them in tooth-whitening treatments and shiny suits) or employ somebody internally, who goes and finds a pool of talent for the manager to pick from when they have a spare couple of hours from doing their actual job with the staff who are already there?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: curiousorange on October 10, 2018, 11:04:47 PM
Quote from: quinas on October 10, 2018, 10:49:32 PM
You know it's a good appointment when the bridge trolls across the way can do little more that mouth breathe hatefully.

https://www.that lot.com/read.php?1,2568396,page=22

I have to say, in addition to that place being a witless carnival of desperation, that forum is an absolute atrocity of design.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on October 10, 2018, 11:05:33 PM
Quote from: Ad@m on October 10, 2018, 10:21:00 PM
I tell you what, Brentford fans are going to fucking hate us!

First Hogan and now Smith!
I have looked at their forum and they appear to be very realistic and pragmatic about it all. A decent set all in all.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on October 10, 2018, 11:05:46 PM
Just read the full statement. I think Christian Purslow could turn out to be one of the clubs best appointments for a long long time.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on October 10, 2018, 11:05:50 PM
I wonder if Dave can get a copy out before midnight, they haven't given him much room with the timing.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Matt Collins on October 10, 2018, 11:06:41 PM
Quote from: Dante Lavelli on October 10, 2018, 11:01:03 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on October 10, 2018, 10:56:25 PM
This looks a bit of a better attempt at the 'Villa engine' than last time.

Yeah, that seemed to stop around the first team's door.  There should be more buy in from the key parties on the basis that they're starting from a blank piece of paper and can develop it together.

Yes. Although the key tension is with the need to get promoted asap given ffp

I really hope we've concluded that it's better to get it right even if it takes a couple of years and that we can afford tbat.

I've given up trying to understand ffp so I can't tell
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ktvillan on October 10, 2018, 11:07:34 PM
They'll  have a job organising that defence due to the shortage of players Bruceratops left us with at CB and LB, unless Terry decides to come out of retirement.  Still as long as they try to play some proper football on the front foot, and don't make bizarre selections, it will be a massive improvement.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: passport1 on October 10, 2018, 11:08:04 PM
Pretty underwhelmed. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on October 10, 2018, 11:09:18 PM
Well smithy was right !
Prince William never got the job
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ger Regan on October 10, 2018, 11:09:49 PM
Quote from: The Edge on October 10, 2018, 11:05:46 PM
Just read the full statement. I think Christian Purslow could turn out to be one of the clubs best appointments for a long long time.
Steady on. Optimism is one thing, but the statement is no more than the usual fluff you'd expect.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Iamkmkm on October 10, 2018, 11:09:56 PM
Dont know very much about him, but i will support him 100% and hope and pray he will be a huge success.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on October 10, 2018, 11:10:19 PM
Without pitarch I'd think this was a big risk but it looks like we're implementing the right structure to allow Smith to do what he's good at.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Archbishop Herbert Cockthrottle on October 10, 2018, 11:10:26 PM
I’m very happy with this. I think it’s a positive step forward.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on October 10, 2018, 11:10:49 PM
Quote from: passport1 on October 10, 2018, 11:08:04 PM
Pretty underwhelmed.
That's the spirit.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on October 10, 2018, 11:12:43 PM
Surely he will have a lot of his coaching team in with him so that will help set up things coaching wise.

Expected for him to get villa promoted and this old Jesus Patriarchy chap to deal with the transfers
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on October 10, 2018, 11:13:00 PM
Quote from: Ger Regan on October 10, 2018, 11:09:49 PM
Quote from: The Edge on October 10, 2018, 11:05:46 PM
Just read the full statement. I think Christian Purslow could turn out to be one of the clubs best appointments for a long long time.
Steady on. Optimism is one thing, but the statement is no more than the usual fluff you'd expect.
I was referring to the appointments not the actual statement.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on October 10, 2018, 11:13:31 PM
Quote from: The Edge on October 10, 2018, 11:10:49 PM
Quote from: passport1 on October 10, 2018, 11:08:04 PM
Pretty underwhelmed.
That's the spirit.

Would you rather have Brucie or Smithy
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The_ads on October 10, 2018, 11:15:22 PM
I love this #oneofourown stuff - I’m absolutely buzzing
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on October 10, 2018, 11:16:03 PM
Quote from: footyskillz on October 10, 2018, 11:13:31 PM
Quote from: The Edge on October 10, 2018, 11:10:49 PM
Quote from: passport1 on October 10, 2018, 11:08:04 PM
Pretty underwhelmed.
That's the spirit.

Would you rather have Brucie or Smithy
Is that a trick question?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: robleflaneur on October 10, 2018, 11:17:42 PM
Shocked -as I didn't expect an appointment tonight- but absolutely delighted.Great pairing and I'm looking forward to the football and the reclaiming of our rightful place in the world of football.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on October 10, 2018, 11:17:59 PM
From the Brentford statement, it looks like O'Kelly will be coming our way too as they say his position will be sorted in the next few days.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nii Lamptey on October 10, 2018, 11:18:05 PM
No more there-or-thereabouts..... WE'RE GOING TO BE BLOODY THERE!!!!!!!!   

Welcome Deano, now get Villa Park lit up like a firework.  :)

#oneofourown
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ozzjim on October 10, 2018, 11:18:44 PM
There was a stat during the Leeds game. Brentford and Leeds were top 2 on almost every relevant attacking stat you could think of. Say all you like about the structure of the club, that comes from the coaching and set up of the man picking the team. A genuinely attacking manager, I bet he is very excited looking at our forward players.

Defenders. Hmm. Huth or Collins might be in as short term fixes pretty quick still.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Fasth56 on October 10, 2018, 11:22:34 PM
Quote from: footyskillz on October 10, 2018, 10:40:55 PM
I particularly like that we have a head coach not a manager
I like the fact we will have any sort of coach and unlikely to be out thought by Alex bloody Neal
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Tuscans on October 10, 2018, 11:23:11 PM
Brentford fan rang up talksport and said he's glad. Very overrated, conceded tons of late goals...etc etc.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on October 10, 2018, 11:23:21 PM
Quote from: ozzjim on October 10, 2018, 11:18:44 PM
There was a stat during the Leeds game. Brentford and Leeds were top 2 on almost every relevant attacking stat you could think of. Say all you like about the structure of the club, that comes from the coaching and set up of the man picking the team. A genuinely attacking manager, I bet he is very excited looking at our forward players.

Defenders. Hmm. Huth or Collins might be in as short term fixes pretty quick still.
Spot on. I think Deano will be using our attacking force to the full in no time. I think JT will be tasked with sorting out Bruce's defensive fuckfest with the help of Jesus.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on October 10, 2018, 11:25:20 PM
Quote from: Newby on October 10, 2018, 11:17:59 PM
From the Brentford statement, it looks like O'Kelly will be coming our way too as they say his position will be sorted in the next few days.

He was Assistant Manager though (not sure how that works when you have a Head Coach instead of a Manager and you also have a separate Assistant Head Coach, but whatever...), so it's hard to see where he'd fit?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on October 10, 2018, 11:26:48 PM
Quote from: Tuscans on October 10, 2018, 11:23:11 PM
Brentford fan rang up talksport and said he's glad. Very overrated, conceded tons of late goals...etc etc.

Yeh he has to be gutted sitting 7th a point outside the playoffs having just gone to 3rd place Leeds and been very unlucky not to win. Numpty.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: andyh on October 10, 2018, 11:27:25 PM
Compo reported to be £300k
Bargain!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdward on October 10, 2018, 11:27:47 PM
I know he's a Villa fan. Is he from Birmingham? If so where. His wiki page says born in West Brom.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SheffieldVillain on October 10, 2018, 11:28:02 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on October 10, 2018, 11:25:20 PM
Quote from: Newby on October 10, 2018, 11:17:59 PM
From the Brentford statement, it looks like O'Kelly will be coming our way too as they say his position will be sorted in the next few days.

He was Assistant Manager though (not sure how that works when you have a Head Coach instead of a Manager and you also have a separate Assistant Head Coach, but whatever...), so it's hard to see where he'd fit?

At Brentford he had two Assistant Managers/Head Coaches - O'Kelly who he took with him and Thomas Frank who is being linked with the manager's job at Brentford. Maybe the same here?

Bruce had Clemence, Agnew and Calderwood so plenty of space.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on October 10, 2018, 11:29:38 PM
Quote from: Tuscans on October 10, 2018, 11:23:11 PM
Brentford fan rang up talksport and said he's glad. Very overrated, conceded tons of late goals...etc etc.
Hopefully he's choked on his sour fucking grapes. I've been every Villa v Brentford game since we got relegated and apart from a half hour spell in the most recent game they've been by far the better team with a fraction of the resources we've had.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Goldie.7 on October 10, 2018, 11:29:41 PM
This guy has a lower win % than potato head. I hope things change under him for the better but right now Villa man or not I'm very skeptical.

Good luck though.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on October 10, 2018, 11:30:56 PM
At Brentford though. Brentford. Of Griffin Park. The size of the lower Holte.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 10, 2018, 11:30:59 PM
Quote from: Tuscans on October 10, 2018, 11:23:11 PM
Brentford fan rang up talksport and said he's glad. Very overrated, conceded tons of late goals...etc etc.

They've conceded 3 late ones in the league this season and 1 was when they were 5 up. The poor lamb would have needed 24/7 supervision if he'd been watching us under RDM.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: myf on October 10, 2018, 11:34:59 PM
Quote from: cdward on October 10, 2018, 11:27:47 PM
I know he's a Villa fan. Is he from Birmingham? If so where. His wiki page says born in West Brom.


someone told me his folks live kings heath by cocks moors
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on October 10, 2018, 11:35:22 PM
Quote from: Ads on October 10, 2018, 11:30:56 PM
At Brentford though. Brentford. Of Griffin Park. The size of the lower Holte.
Correct. Some villa fans just cannot get positive about anything the club does. I sometimes wonder what motivates some of them to "support" the club.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dazvillain on October 10, 2018, 11:35:39 PM
How’s he going to fit in JT and his own no2 from Brentford ?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on October 10, 2018, 11:36:14 PM
I mentioned on tactis thread that a caller named fred a Brentford fan says last 3 seasons  Brentford at top of league for conceding late goals.

I was aware they struggle and seen them concede and throw away leads at times .  Villa of course had the 2-2 comeback and late goals conceded is a specialty which is a concern.

What was interesting is the caller thinking the subs made did little to consolidate  matches .
I noticed in match against Leeds that I thought subs were not the best and that Leeds eventually equalised.

Okay it's a completely different squad but the defending and concentration could have been better in those brentford sides and this season conceded I think the  most goals as headers or from corners / set plays.

Maybe it's to do with style of play?

The teams I've seen have also been organised and play a good football style and prefer attacking and moving ball forward.
Smith sets up  organised but not in a so called pragmatic way like Bruce and pulis but a more systematic way with tactical identification and a decent use and embracing of analytics in coaching . Bruce never comfortable in understand such systems.

Welcome his approach and coaching methods I hope rest of his coaching team come in





Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on October 10, 2018, 11:44:42 PM
Quote from: myf on October 10, 2018, 11:34:59 PM
Quote from: cdward on October 10, 2018, 11:27:47 PM
I know he's a Villa fan. Is he from Birmingham? If so where. His wiki page says born in West Brom.


someone told me his folks live kings heath by cocks moors

His parents lived in Great Barr near enough to the Scott Arms pub. Not sure they are still there though.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on October 10, 2018, 11:45:53 PM
Quote from: ozzjim on October 10, 2018, 11:18:44 PM
There was a stat during the Leeds game. Brentford and Leeds were top 2 on almost every relevant attacking stat you could think of. Say all you like about the structure of the club, that comes from the coaching and set up of the man picking the team. A genuinely attacking manager, I bet he is very excited looking at our forward players.

Defenders. Hmm. Huth or Collins might be in as short term fixes pretty quick still.

Just saying but Aston Villa only team to have scored every game in championship this season.
That's an attacking relevant stat to beat the league let alone Brentford or Leeds !
Let's increase now and make it out score every team .
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on October 10, 2018, 11:46:27 PM
Quote from: cdward on October 10, 2018, 11:27:47 PM
I know he's a Villa fan. Is he from Birmingham? If so where. His wiki page says born in West Brom.


Great Barr.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on October 10, 2018, 11:46:39 PM
Of course there are doubts, life is uncertain but the board have acted decisively and brought a new management team in with lots of potential.
I am now working out how to de at the Swansea game.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on October 10, 2018, 11:46:59 PM
Welcome to the greatest club you will ever manage.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OCD on October 10, 2018, 11:48:23 PM
Terry might be able to help on the point about not consolidating leads.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chris Harte on October 10, 2018, 11:48:59 PM
Quote from: cdward on October 10, 2018, 11:27:47 PM
I know he's a Villa fan. Is he from Birmingham? If so where. His wiki page says born in West Brom.

It's close enough. As long as he don't go around saying "boing boing" or "we'll be throstle or throstle about" it's all good, man.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The_ads on October 10, 2018, 11:49:38 PM
Quote from: Goldie.7 on October 10, 2018, 11:29:41 PM
This guy has a lower win % than potato head. I hope things change under him for the better but right now Villa man or not I'm very skeptical.

Good luck though.


With the resources he had, Steve Bruce should have had a 85% win percentage
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: gpbarr on October 10, 2018, 11:50:15 PM
Excellent appointments - each in their own right and on their own merits.

No guarantees (irrespective who we appointed) but a Villa fan who understands the expectations, backed by two proven winners and leaders in the upper echelons of football. A calm and measured CEO and positive wealthy owners.

As a poster wrote earlier, the start of something special. Let’s get behind them, not expect miracles overnight, and all pull in the same direction

UTV
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: QuintonVilla on October 10, 2018, 11:52:51 PM
Forgetting win percentages, he finished 9th, 10th, 9th with Brentford. When you consider their size, income, stadium, fan base, budget and the fact they lose their best players every year, then that is overachieving. This whilst playing some of the best football in the league and playing us off the park nearly every time we've played them.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdward on October 10, 2018, 11:53:29 PM
https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/aston-villa/2018/10/10/dean-smith-from-the-holte-end-to-the-aston-villa-dugouts/

Nice little insight to the man, from 2 years ago. No doubting his Villa DNA.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on October 10, 2018, 11:53:39 PM
Quote from: Dazvillain on October 10, 2018, 11:35:39 PM
How’s he going to fit in JT and his own no2 from Brentford ?
Yeah I bet the club has just gone into this without a single fucking thought about what they're doing. Idiots.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: wozwebs on October 10, 2018, 11:54:36 PM
Can we bring back the classic “Oh Deano” Dexy’s song from the early 90’s I wonder. Used to lie that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Pat McMahon on October 10, 2018, 11:54:46 PM
Quote from: Chris Harte on October 10, 2018, 11:48:59 PM
Quote from: cdward on October 10, 2018, 11:27:47 PM
I know he's a Villa fan. Is he from Birmingham? If so where. His wiki page says born in West Brom.

It's close enough. As long as he don't go around saying "boing boing" or "we'll be throstle or throstle about" it's all good, man.

My cousins from Hamsted went to Dartmouth school in West Bromwich and iirc he was in the same year as one of them
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Pat McMahon on October 10, 2018, 11:59:38 PM
I’m hopeful and wishe Smith and Terry all the best. Looking forward to a manager who can coach, which we haven’t had for a long time.

Very intriguing appointment from a Spanish director of football too. I’m amazed he knew of Smith and his record at Brentford.

One very minor nagging thought for me is Warburton was doing well at Brentford too and then left to achieve nothing at Rangers and Forest.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Tuscans on October 11, 2018, 12:01:51 AM
Quote from: Pat McMahon on October 10, 2018, 11:59:38 PM
I’m hopeful and wishe Smith and Terry all the best. Looking forward to a manager who can coach, which we haven’t had for a long time.

Very intriguing appointment from a Spanish director of football too. I’m amazed he knew of Smith and his record at Brentford.

One very minor nagging thought for me is Warburton was doing well at Brentford too and then left to achieve nothing at Rangers and Forest.

I think Purslow made the appointment of Smith and Pitarch...I'm guessing.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on October 11, 2018, 12:04:07 AM
Quote from: Pat McMahon on October 10, 2018, 11:59:38 PM
I’m hopeful and wishe Smith and Terry all the best. Looking forward to a manager who can coach, which we haven’t had for a long time.

Very intriguing appointment from a Spanish director of football too. I’m amazed he knew of Smith and his record at Brentford.

One very minor nagging thought for me is Warburton was doing well at Brentford too and then left to achieve nothing at Rangers and Forest.


In the piece Dante linked to further up, it talks of Warburton not being offered a new contract rather than him leaving of his own volition. He apparently didn't buy into the Brentford system in the way that DS has. Make of it what you will!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brentastonb6 on October 11, 2018, 12:10:25 AM
Quote from: Chris Harte on October 10, 2018, 11:48:59 PM
Quote from: cdward on October 10, 2018, 11:27:47 PM
I know he's a Villa fan. Is he from Birmingham? If so where. His wiki page says born in West Brom.

It's close enough. As long as he don't go around saying "boing boing" or "we'll be throstle or throstle about" it's all good, man.
I thought he was from Great Barr  which is in Birmingham?

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tomd2103 on October 11, 2018, 12:13:41 AM
Quote from: brentastonb6 on October 11, 2018, 12:10:25 AM
Quote from: Chris Harte on October 10, 2018, 11:48:59 PM
Quote from: cdward on October 10, 2018, 11:27:47 PM
I know he's a Villa fan. Is he from Birmingham? If so where. His wiki page says born in West Brom.

It's close enough. As long as he don't go around saying "boing boing" or "we'll be throstle or throstle about" it's all good, man.
I thought he was from Great Barr  which is in Birmingham?


Yeah, I know someone who knew him growing up and he's said before that he is from Great Barr.  As one of the above posts says, he went to Dartmouth school.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pooligan on October 11, 2018, 12:25:32 AM
Happy with the appointments of the three .Hopefully i can look forward to seeing some attacking football under Smith instead of the negative boring football we had under Bruce .Would imagine we will play to the strengths of Scott Hogan too
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Monty on October 11, 2018, 12:28:51 AM
Not my no. 1, but a million miles from my last choice. I like the football he's produced at Brentford, he seems ambitious and ready to move on to the big time. Let's hope this is the start of something huge for him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Axl Rose on October 11, 2018, 12:32:19 AM
Quote from: Monty on October 11, 2018, 12:28:51 AM
Not my no. 1, but a million miles from my last choice. I like the football he's produced at Brentford, he seems ambitious and ready to move on to the big time. Let's hope this is the start of something huge for him.

My feelings exactly, Monty. Good luck, Dean.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OzVilla on October 11, 2018, 12:36:26 AM
Quote from: Axl Rose on October 11, 2018, 12:32:19 AM
Quote from: Monty on October 11, 2018, 12:28:51 AM
Not my no. 1, but a million miles from my last choice. I like the football he's produced at Brentford, he seems ambitious and ready to move on to the big time. Let's hope this is the start of something huge for him.

My feelings exactly, Monty. Good luck, Dean.
Quote from: Axl Rose on October 11, 2018, 12:32:19 AM
Quote from: Monty on October 11, 2018, 12:28:51 AM
Not my no. 1, but a million miles from my last choice. I like the football he's produced at Brentford, he seems ambitious and ready to move on to the big time. Let's hope this is the start of something huge for him.

My feelings exactly, Monty. Good luck, Dean.

Agreed, not my first choice but more than acceptable. We’re all behind you Dean, good luck mate.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on October 11, 2018, 12:38:19 AM
Quote from: QuintonVilla on October 10, 2018, 11:52:51 PM
Forgetting win percentages, he finished 9th, 10th, 9th with Brentford. When you consider their size, income, stadium, fan base, budget and the fact they lose their best players every year, then that is overachieving. This whilst playing some of the best football in the league and playing us off the park nearly every time we've played them.

That is the structure and set up at Brentford. Using the analytics and set up the way they have as a club Warburton also was doing some good things and playing this football.

They set the whole club as one to overachieve.

Hopefully Smith can still bring success and stamp some of his authority despite the difficult step up in size of club and expectations.

I think Smith has learnt a lot at Brentford and this restructuring at Villa with a sporting director hopefully will work well .

What's fascinating is how Smith adapts to managing outside of the Brentford structure and that there seems to be a restructuring at Villa which hopes to be progressive

I'm enjoying reading all the comment and debate all having  .

It's just as fascinating gauging the vibes of all the supporters and followers on this appointment and how will move forward.

Definite I'm optimistic but now with a hint of caution. That's because  having researched a bit more on the Brentford club structure it's totally different to villa set up and actually unique as a club to Brentford .
It's how much was it Smithy methods and how much is it the specialist coaching staff and systems used.

Villa have own system so will see .
Up the villa!

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Jockey Randall on October 11, 2018, 12:42:25 AM
The most interesting thing for me is that he's labelled as head coach like his previous role. Suggests they could be trying to go down the Brentford route of the club having a philosophy that the coach is asked to implement. Could also mean he wouldn't be too involved in transfers as well.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Tuscans on October 11, 2018, 12:47:12 AM
What vegetable are we going to associate with Smith then?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Axl Rose on October 11, 2018, 12:49:05 AM
And thank the lord it wasn't Moyes, McCarthy, Allardyce, Pardew, etc etc.

Dwight Yorke won't be very happy, I'd imagine!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 11, 2018, 12:59:11 AM
Quote from: Axl Rose on October 11, 2018, 12:49:05 AM
Dwight Yorke won't be very happy, I'd imagine!

Good. The self entitled tool. He's only a few months younger than Dean Smith, once has been coaching since 2005, the other keeps thinking he should be handed a job because, well, because.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on October 11, 2018, 01:00:08 AM
Quote from: Jockey Randall on October 11, 2018, 12:42:25 AM
The most interesting thing for me is that he's labelled as head coach like his previous role. Suggests they could be trying to go down the Brentford route of the club having a philosophy that the coach is asked to implement. Could also mean he wouldn't be too involved in transfers as well.

It is a very successful way having a sporting director and a head coach. Many clubs throughout Europe use this method especially on the continent and it's now one that Aston villa football club have embraced.

Smith may not get overall say on final transfers but having worked that system at Brentford then he should be comfortable.


Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villadelph on October 11, 2018, 01:28:21 AM
Dean Smith interview on captains and leadership.. quite ironic at :40.

https://youtu.be/W0xEu4gt94Q

Another thing..

Dean started two 20 year old CBs away at Elland Road before the break. Maybe he can figure something out with our group, Axel/Chester?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on October 11, 2018, 01:30:25 AM
Excited for us and happy for him.
Hopefully Hogan and Grealish will be rejuvenated with their old mentors.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KevinGage on October 11, 2018, 01:42:37 AM
I wish all the good things in the world on him and only him.

But it is such a massive step up.

Walsall>Brentford>Villa

My fear -like when Wagner was under consideration back in 2016- is we are a juggernaut. With a bit of forward momentum= one of the top 6-8 clubs in England regardless of league position.

When it's shite, it's like being hit by a bus and dragged under.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: JUAN PABLO on October 11, 2018, 03:03:53 AM
I cant imagine Dean Smith will get much sleep tonight , he will be so bloody excited .

Good luck Dean Smith , looking forward to your brand of football down the Villa. 

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on October 11, 2018, 03:24:22 AM
Quote from: villadelph on October 11, 2018, 01:28:21 AM
Dean Smith interview on captains and leadership.. quite ironic at :40.

https://youtu.be/W0xEu4gt94Q

Another thing..

Dean started two 20 year old CBs away at Elland Road before the break. Maybe he can figure something out with our group, Axel/Chester?

He used the word “studying”, relative to captaincy in other sports. I nearly blacked out. The only thing Steve Bruce ever studied is the menu at the local chippy.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on October 11, 2018, 03:34:40 AM
Bloody hell, I'd switched off for the night, I certainly wasn't expecting this news.

Welcome, Dean. Do us proud. It's a crime it's taken us 18 years to join the 21st century. Watching the World Cup this summer followed by watching the Villa this season, you'd think they were two completely different sports. Looking forward now to the rest of the season. Bring it on!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VancouverLion on October 11, 2018, 04:30:07 AM
How refreshing to listen to a manager that clearly knows what he’s doing.

https://youtu.be/56G-dyffX7M
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: wittonwarrior on October 11, 2018, 04:39:10 AM
Being a Villa man himself, I just hope the weight of expectation from us "hard to please" fan base doesn't get to him.  He needs some time.  Perhaps we may not go up this season - yes we are desperate for that kick on but we are up against it chasing  rather than being chased.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: levico on October 11, 2018, 04:43:47 AM
Quote from: Tuscans on October 11, 2018, 12:47:12 AM
What vegetable are we going to associate with Smith then?

Rocket?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AV82EC on October 11, 2018, 04:46:31 AM
The fan base needs to get behind him and they will. The fan base also need to be patient, will they? I am as keen for him to succeed as the next man but this will take time, I hope he’s got the balls to stand up to any whinging and moaning from us if it takes time to get it right.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: levico on October 11, 2018, 04:46:46 AM
Is this the first time we have had a manager who was a childhood fan of the club?

I can think of a few who adopted the club but no lifelong supporters.

Can’t help but think that the club have called the fans bluff on this one. We got what many asked for (shudders at Lambert memories).
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 11, 2018, 04:55:38 AM
Ron Atkinson said this in an interview a week or so ago ""I’d supported Villa as a kid, I’d played there."
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Matt C on October 11, 2018, 05:02:36 AM
Looks like the semblance of a smart structure being implemented with a progressive young coach at the helm who knows what the club is about, couldn’t have asked for much more.

Kudos too for the way the business was conducted - smartly, efficiently and in private. The media knew nothing until an hour prior.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: clash city rocker on October 11, 2018, 05:05:34 AM
Think the spotlight in the coming weeks will turn to the players. Too often the contribution of some hasn't been good enough but they have got away with it as people focussed on Bruce's poor management. Some are going to have to up their  game.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on October 11, 2018, 05:48:45 AM
Good luck to all three. Dean in particular, I really hope the expectations that have ruined a few managers, Lambert for example, who loads thought was “the one” does not happen again. Forget all about the Villa fan stuff, not important. Good luck Dean
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dorsetvillian on October 11, 2018, 06:04:17 AM
Very happy with all 3. I'm really looking forward to the type of football DS plays. Hopefully the climb back to the top begins here.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: NeilH on October 11, 2018, 06:12:03 AM
Over the moon about this frankly, not just cos he’s a fellow Villain, but because it’s the kind if appointment the club needs after years of mistimed steps. His back room staff are just the cherry on top.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dante Lavelli on October 11, 2018, 06:21:32 AM
Quote from: Three Spires Villa on October 11, 2018, 05:48:45 AM
Good luck to all three. Dean in particular, I really hope the expectations that have ruined a few managers, Lambert for example, who loads thought was “the one” does not happen again. Forget all about the Villa fan stuff, not important. Good luck Dean

I'm hoping this is the start of a genuine 'villa engine' where the head coach is less important.  The key man could actually be the DoF who will have a bigger say in defining the DNA of the club, Smith will implement that vision.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: itbrvilla on October 11, 2018, 06:24:17 AM
Do we know much about his back room team other than Terry?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 11, 2018, 06:41:26 AM
Welcome Dean, Jesus and John get us promoted and play good football please.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: frank black on October 11, 2018, 06:41:41 AM
HEADLINE NEWS BBC......

JOHN TERRY IS BACK AND APPOINTED AS VILLA ASSISTANT.



And some guy called smith is manager
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villafirst on October 11, 2018, 06:44:45 AM
The only thing concerning me is the weak defence that Bruce has left behind, this will hamper Deano at least until January. Hopefully JT can sort it - maybe even helping out by playing?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on October 11, 2018, 06:50:15 AM
Very happy about this outcome.  A balanced, far sighted set of appointments that will get the Villa aeroplane taxiing  along the runway not catapulted over the edge of a cliff the way it has been so many times in the recent past.  The signs are the days of rolling the dice and betting the farm are over.

I am extraordinarily happy that I never had to stop going to games.  The cabbage saved me.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: JJ-AV on October 11, 2018, 06:51:11 AM
Welcome aboard Dean. Out of them all you’re the one I’d most want it to go well for. The timing feels right, I don’t think there’s an expectancy for us to go up this year now so he should have until next season atleast.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on October 11, 2018, 07:05:14 AM
Gregory Tweeting this morning;

Quote
#avfc After years of getting it totally and utterly wrong and more than £100m wasted.... Villa have finally made the correct appointment.
Welcome Dean Smith. One of our own.#UTV
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on October 11, 2018, 07:09:57 AM
I wonder if Doyle-Hayes will get into the squads? It's how Smith likes to play, with a deep lying ball player.

Two 20 year olds at the heart of Brentford's defence, so he'snot afriad to play the wee ones.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Matt Collins on October 11, 2018, 07:10:23 AM
Really looking forward to the style of play we'll see

But it may take a while. Theres so little time to coach in this league and when there is, unlike most clubs, almost our entire squad is away with their international team

Plus the keeper and defence situation . . It will surely improve, but some off the players are possibly just quite poor.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Hookeysmith on October 11, 2018, 07:14:12 AM
Quote from: VancouverLion on October 11, 2018, 04:30:07 AM
How refreshing to listen to a manager that clearly knows what he’s doing.

https://youtu.be/56G-dyffX7M

Guy is a Muppet.
No mention of sleeves being rolled up and all he talked about was double training sessions, preperation and a game plan.

Who is he trying to kid?

What a refreshing change.
Best of luck Dean   now go be a legend.

Oh and good or bad appointment only time will tell but I have been very impressed with the professional way we have conducted ourselves as a club from start to finish.

UTV
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on October 11, 2018, 07:15:01 AM
Quote from: Ads on October 11, 2018, 07:09:57 AM
I wonder if Doyle-Hayes will get into the squads? It's how Smith likes to play, with a deep lying ball player.

Two 20 year olds at the heart of Brentford's defence, so he'snot afriad to play the wee ones.

It's easier to play as a young one if you're playing at a smaller club. Weight of expectation not so huge. Having said that, I'd have thought Smith and Terry will give players confidence and be really supportive.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on October 11, 2018, 07:17:43 AM
Villa Park is going to roar next Saturday Dean and I wish you every success. Tame the lion and don't give it an opportunity to tame you,
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ldavfc4eva on October 11, 2018, 07:24:36 AM
What time was this all announced? I’m reading this all now, what a positive start to the day!

I just hope he wanted JT as his assistant and he hasn’t been forced to have him.

Onwards and upwards, all the best Smithy and JT bring the good times back!

UTV
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: itbrvilla on October 11, 2018, 07:30:46 AM
I thought bk Terry will be he teeth to those players who think that Smith is a nobody. I can't wait for our next game now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Scratchins on October 11, 2018, 07:31:15 AM
I checked the internet at 21:50, doom and gloom. No news expected for a week, Dean Smith not approached, others turning us down. 22:00 Villa tweeted the 3 appointments. Don't trust the media.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on October 11, 2018, 07:35:08 AM
you can always trust them to get it wrong
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Little Class on October 11, 2018, 07:39:18 AM
Quote from: Allan C on October 10, 2018, 10:29:05 PM
At last an inspiring set of appointments. Now is the time for patients cos this team will deliver when they’ve repaired the damage caused by the previous manager. I feel so upbeat right now

There's quite a few of those in the squad already...
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nev on October 11, 2018, 07:50:31 AM
Like many, I retain reservations about Smith. I watched some of the match against Leeds and it occurred to me that seeing games out is seems to be an issue, they had chances and only ended up with a draw and perhaps this is why they are not further up the table. But then that could be down to the tools at his disposal.

Either way, fortune favours the brave and this is a gamble but I would rather this than a "safe pair of hands". There is so much of that in football these days, going out not to lose, eking points out here and there, safety first and we've had our fair share at Villa Park. I'd rather have someone like Smith and it not work than not try at all.

It's very much a leap into the unknown when you consider the other two appointments but it's intriguing and exciting and that's why I'm really looking forward to the next game.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: manic-road on October 11, 2018, 07:55:11 AM
I'm not sure if he was the best option to appoint but I wish him all the success in the world, I'm not expecting Villa to transform the style of play overnight but I would like to think that in a couple of months we will start to see the makings of a good team.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on October 11, 2018, 08:00:14 AM
I spent all day yesterday glued to a combination of Talksport, SKY and H&V and then decided to take a break from all things Villa connected and watch some regular TV from 9pm onwards. An hour later we make the big announcement and I didn't find out until I woke up this morning.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on October 11, 2018, 08:03:01 AM
I just like the fact he plays attacking football

I don't know how be long term but he's definitely good enough to get us up playing the right way and hopefully starting to put a good squad of players together

I'm not keen on British managers we've been burnt to often lately with their limitations
whether he turns into a Eddie Howe or a Alan Pardew only time will tell on that one

But I'm hopeful again and I haven't been that for a good two years
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dazvillain on October 11, 2018, 08:03:38 AM
Quote from: levico on October 11, 2018, 04:46:46 AM
Is this the first time we have had a manager who was a childhood fan of the club?

I can think of a few who adopted the club but no lifelong supporters.

Can’t help but think that the club have called the fans bluff on this one. We got what many asked for (shudders at Lambert memories).
Don’t know about that but with himself , Sir Brian and Tayls all working there, that has to be the most Villa blood in non playing staff there for a long while , so great stuff
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: manic-road on October 11, 2018, 08:04:55 AM
No leaks in the media about the appointment prior to the announcement, that's how a club should act.
James Nursey was tweeting that Faria was about to sign for Villa just a few hours before Smith was announced, they just make it up for sales and clicks.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: postal on October 11, 2018, 08:06:30 AM
Should be a good appointment, esp when Henry decided to try for Monaco instead of working in Birmingham.

Can we give him a bit of time before some one here starts the "Sack Dean Smith" thread....   ::)  ;)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: UK Redsox on October 11, 2018, 08:06:35 AM
First job for Smith is to talk Terry out of retirement, at least until the next transfer window
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT on October 11, 2018, 08:09:25 AM
The first managerial appointment I've been really happy with since MON.

Chuffed for Dean, really pleased JT is back (still wish he'd play for a few months) and am just very positive about the whole thing.

UTV
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on October 11, 2018, 08:11:09 AM
So as he’s a local bloke what are all our tenuous links to Deano?

I met him at Boldmere St Michaels when he was Walsall manager. He was with a mate of mine who went to school with him and was watching their youth team play in the Bham Senior Cup. Nice fella, just seemed a straight up normal lad.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: rob_bridge on October 11, 2018, 08:14:20 AM
Quote from: CT on October 11, 2018, 08:09:25 AM
The first managerial appointment I've been really happy with since MON.

Chuffed for Dean, really pleased JT is back (still wish he'd play for a few months) and am just very positive about the whole thing.

UTV

I was pleased with Lambert based on his prior 3 years.

Bruce was decent enough at the time under the dire circumstances. Yeah the rest were uninspriing, baffling or downright fucking idiotic - or a combination. Garde was doomed to fail regardless mind
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: nigel on October 11, 2018, 08:17:45 AM
Quote from: levico on October 11, 2018, 04:46:46 AM
Is this the first time we have had a manager who was a childhood fan of the club?

I can think of a few who adopted the club but no lifelong supporters.

Can’t help but think that the club have called the fans bluff on this one. We got what many asked for (shudders at Lambert memories).


Could be they've called everyones bluff.
Dean Smith could have been the n.o 1 all along but they allowed the media to speculate with the likes of Henry, Faria, Rodgers etc
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on October 11, 2018, 08:21:27 AM
Quote from: nigel on October 11, 2018, 08:17:45 AM
Quote from: levico on October 11, 2018, 04:46:46 AM
Is this the first time we have had a manager who was a childhood fan of the club?

I can think of a few who adopted the club but no lifelong supporters.

Can’t help but think that the club have called the fans bluff on this one. We got what many asked for (shudders at Lambert memories).


Could be they've called everyones bluff.
Dean Smith could have been the n.o 1 all along but they allowed the media to speculate with the likes of Henry, Faria, Rodgers etc


To what end?

I think it's clear we talked to other managers, they weren't interested, but we were always working off of a shortlist and eventually got the man best suited for the role when he responded positively to an approach.

In other words, we did it right. For once.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: nigel on October 11, 2018, 08:22:40 AM
Quote from: UK Redsox on October 11, 2018, 08:06:35 AM
First job for Smith is to talk Terry out of retirement, at least until the next transfer window


I'd be disappointed if he did, to be honest.


We've got players who can do the job, they just need to play in their correct positions
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on October 11, 2018, 08:23:56 AM
The speed at which it's happened suggests we were talking to a number of people at the same time, which is a world away from Fox's shortlist of 1.

£300k in compensation Percy is reporting. I doubt he's on Bruce's fat deal either.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Little Class on October 11, 2018, 08:28:45 AM
The next 25 years:

October 2019 - Smith Out banners appear at VP
2020 - Villa win Championship
2022 - League Cup Winners
Summer 2022 - Terry joins Lampard as new coach at Chelsea; Delaney new Assistant at Villa
2023 - FA Cup Winners
2024 - Europa League Winners
2025 - League Champions
2026 - Do the Double
2027 - League Champions
2028 - European Champions
Next 15 years, 12 FA Cups, 13 League Titles, 10 European Cups
2036 - Terry says:  "I thought I had joined the greatest club in the world in Chelsea.  I was mistaken"
2038- I croak it
2040 - Villa beat Barca 6-3 in Euro Cup Final for 5th straight win, and I bloody miss it
2042 - Villa buy Qatar and free the slaves
2043 - Smith retires and Moyes is appointed manager
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Godfrey Brian on October 11, 2018, 08:30:13 AM
Excellent appointment. I'd anticipate he'll have a role for O'Kelly also. They are a strong team  who've been together a long time. Brentford have said they will 'clarify' his position which suggests discussions and someone else is leading their training today.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lsvilla on October 11, 2018, 08:31:41 AM
Quote from: PeterWithe on October 11, 2018, 08:11:09 AM
So as he’s a local bloke what are all our tenuous links to Deano?

I met him at Boldmere St Michaels when he was Walsall manager. He was with a mate of mine who went to school with him and was watching their youth team play in the Bham Senior Cup. Nice fella, just seemed a straight up normal lad.
My mate plays golf in the fourball that goes off behind him and his most Sunday’s at Great Barr so chats to him pretty regularly. Speaks highly of him but no idea what his golf is like.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ROBBO on October 11, 2018, 08:31:53 AM
While he wasn't my first choice he does give us a coach manager rather than someone who just picks the side on match day. Credit must go to all at Villa for the way they have kept all happenings in-house and have given us a clear structure for the first time in many years. I will be waiting with anticipation to see the line up against Swansea hopefully we will have players playing in their natural positions. UTV.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on October 11, 2018, 08:32:29 AM
Quote from: manic-road on October 11, 2018, 08:04:55 AM
No leaks in the media about the appointment prior to the announcement, that's how a club should act.
James Nursey was tweeting that Faria was about to sign for Villa just a few hours before Smith was announced, they just make it up for sales and clicks.
I think Kendrick tweeted a link to Dexy’s Geno an hour or so before the appointment
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: nigel on October 11, 2018, 08:32:48 AM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on October 11, 2018, 08:21:27 AM
Quote from: nigel on October 11, 2018, 08:17:45 AM
Quote from: levico on October 11, 2018, 04:46:46 AM
Is this the first time we have had a manager who was a childhood fan of the club?

I can think of a few who adopted the club but no lifelong supporters.

Can’t help but think that the club have called the fans bluff on this one. We got what many asked for (shudders at Lambert memories).


Could be they've called everyones bluff.
Dean Smith could have been the n.o 1 all along but they allowed the media to speculate with the likes of Henry, Faria, Rodgers etc


To what end?

I think it's clear we talked to other managers, they weren't interested, but we were always working off of a shortlist and eventually got the man best suited for the role when he responded positively to an approach.

In other words, we did it right. For once.


Was it?

If you want to believe everything the media say that's fair enough. For me it was the media name dropping and then the persons (Henry, Rodgers) in question saying they hadn't been contacted, or, as with BFS and Yorke, they would if asked.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brassneck on October 11, 2018, 08:33:54 AM
Quote from: Ads on October 11, 2018, 08:23:56 AM
The speed at which it's happened suggests we were talking to a number of people at the same time, which is a world away from Fox's shortlist of 1.

£300k in compensation Percy is reporting. I doubt he's on Bruce's fat deal either.

I'd expect us to have been sounding out interest prior to Bruce's sacking or at the very latest, when he was sacked.

If the others (Henry & Faria) weren't interested and Rogers either wasn't interested or was too expensive to prise away then Smith would have been the leading contender from a very early stage.

Personally, I'm happy with the appointment, as most appear to be.  It's not perfect but no appointment is ever going to be.  After Henry, Smith would have been my choice and importantly (to me anyway) is the fact that decent football is going to be played.  I was at breaking point after 2 years of Bruce and couldn't have faced much more.

I posted it on another thread but if anyone has time, this 20 minute video of Smith on a Q&A session is v interesting:

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Matt Collins on October 11, 2018, 08:35:01 AM
Brentford have been playing with a 20 year old centre back this season. So I imagine he'll be prepared to stick with tuanzebe there

Quite what he does about the left back and keeper situation in the short term, I've no idea

I think it's probably nyland and Taylor and try and build their confidence up. Maybe you say to them that they've got the shirt for a good run of games to help with that

Problem is they're both a bit of a liability
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on October 11, 2018, 08:40:09 AM
Quote from: Matt Collins on October 11, 2018, 08:35:01 AM
Brentford have been playing with a 20 year old centre back this season. So I imagine he'll be prepared to stick with tuanzebe there

Quite what he does about the left back and keeper situation in the short term, I've no idea

I think it's probably nyland and Taylor and try and build their confidence up. Maybe you say to them that they've got the shirt for a good run of games to help with that

Problem is they're both a bit of a liability

Remember Terry played with most of our defence last season so knows exactly who is, and isn't, up to it. The keeper situation is the one area of concern but I'd soon expect that to get sorted with clear instructions.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sickbeggar on October 11, 2018, 08:41:29 AM
Wasn't my 1st choice but i'm quite happy about it all the same. I just hope he gets the time to turn it round. After wasting 3 seasons on Bruce i think a lot of people won't be prepared to give Smith that leeway.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on October 11, 2018, 08:49:31 AM
Feeling really happy about this this morning. Henry was like the hot girl who’ll inevitably break your heart, Smith is like her ugly mate who can suck a golf ball through a garden hose.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Axl Rose on October 11, 2018, 08:53:33 AM
Quote from: themossman on October 11, 2018, 08:49:31 AM
Feeling really happy about this this morning. Henry was like the hot girl who’ll inevitably break your heart, Smith is like her ugly mate who can suck a golf ball through a garden hose.

Haha
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: lovejoy on October 11, 2018, 08:58:41 AM
Any news on whether Deano is bringing any of his backroom team?
 I think this is important.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dicedlam on October 11, 2018, 09:03:32 AM
Started warming to the idea of Smith being appointed a couple of days ago. It makes sense and I wish him and JT all the very best.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nelly on October 11, 2018, 09:03:49 AM
Great news. A man with a clue, finally! If Smith gets us back to where we belong, he'll be a hero forever. I for one, cannot wait to see Villa playing good football again.

On the march!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: garyshawsknee on October 11, 2018, 09:09:45 AM
Quote from: lovejoy on October 11, 2018, 08:58:41 AM
Any news on whether Deano is bringing any of his backroom team?
 I think this is important.

Check out @MattHughesTimes’s Tweet: https://twitter.com/MattHughesTimes/status/1050295836297580544?s=09
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: garyshawsknee on October 11, 2018, 09:10:54 AM
Richard O'Kelly to join as his assistant.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on October 11, 2018, 09:24:35 AM
So does that make Terry assistant to the head coach? /davidbrent
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: UK Redsox on October 11, 2018, 09:25:19 AM
Quote from: nigel on October 11, 2018, 08:22:40 AM
Quote from: UK Redsox on October 11, 2018, 08:06:35 AM
First job for Smith is to talk Terry out of retirement, at least until the next transfer window


I'd be disappointed if he did, to be honest.


We've got players who can do the job, they just need to play in their correct positions

At the moment Villa have .......

one fully qualified centre half who's looked a bit flaky himself this season
one apprentice centre half
one YTS centre half
one really slow midfielder, who's been moved into defence because he can head the ball (although not with any directional control)
the decaying carcass of Micah Richards

Therefore, a couple of months of Terry playing the odd game would be a positive move.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dazvillain on October 11, 2018, 09:32:04 AM
Quote from: garyshawsknee on October 11, 2018, 09:10:54 AM
Richard O'Kelly to join as his assistant.
Is this now confirmed anywhere ?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brend'Watkins on October 11, 2018, 09:37:24 AM
It’s the paring I wanted. Great news for fans, players and the club. This to me is probably the best managerial appointment at VP in all my years as a fan.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dazvillain on October 11, 2018, 09:41:06 AM
Great read.... https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/wally-meets-dean-smith-ambitious-9754497
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on October 11, 2018, 09:45:35 AM
Hearing the Dean Smith's comments after the Leeds game, I'd expect he'll be using this international break to work with the squad as he planned to at Brentford, despite having seven players out on international duty. DOUBLE SESSIONS. The bloke doesn't miss an opportunity to improve his players.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on October 11, 2018, 09:46:42 AM
Awkward. I'd hate to think JT has been shoehorned in. He's too good for that, and we require stability too much to have people potentially working at cross purposes or competing for the gaffer's ear. I don't see how a manager (or head coach, whatever) can have more than one actual assistant, whatever their title.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on October 11, 2018, 09:48:53 AM
Quote from: PeterWithe on October 10, 2018, 10:08:19 PM
Happy with this but hope Smith wanted Terry rather than him being foisted upon him.

Unfortunately it seems a contrived partnership to me. Best of luck to Dean Smith, we go again...
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brend'Watkins on October 11, 2018, 09:50:51 AM
When Hogan is fit he really will be like a new signing.  This news should give him a great lift too.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on October 11, 2018, 09:54:52 AM
Quote from: Bren'd on October 11, 2018, 09:50:51 AM
When Hogan is fit he really will be like a new signing.  This news should give him a great lift too.

According to Hogan, he's been fit for the last five weeks.  Yet more proof of a what a lying twat Bruce was.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave shelley on October 11, 2018, 09:58:07 AM
Typical of me, switched off about 9:15 last night and didn't bother logging in again.  Got up to go swimming at 6:15 and had a quick look in and the first thing I saw was the new manager thread locked and John Terry appointed as coach.  I couldn't wait to get home to carry on reading.  I completely missed the minor fact that Dean Smith had got the gig and also the new DOF.

Anyway, welcome chaps and the very best of luck to you, I wish you well.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on October 11, 2018, 09:58:10 AM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on October 11, 2018, 09:46:42 AM
Awkward. I'd hate to think JT has been shoehorned in. He's too good for that, and we require stability too much to have people potentially working at cross purposes or competing for the gaffer's ear. I don't see how a manager (or head coach, whatever) can have more than one actual assistant, whatever their title.

I think it's a great move, and I'm sure Smith will be perfectly happy with having somebody with such recent experience of the squad, who commands respect and can act as a go between.  Of course a manager can have more than one assistant, they can have different roles, and bring different strengths to the group.  Our defence has been a bit shit for example, so having somebody like Terry as a coach who actually played with Chester and Hutton will be a massive help.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 11, 2018, 09:58:32 AM
He's in the Ireland squad so I don't think he is unfit.

Smith seems to play 4-2-3-1 though, so he will likely have to bide his time.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on October 11, 2018, 10:09:53 AM
Quote from: garyshawsknee on October 11, 2018, 09:09:45 AM
Quote from: lovejoy on October 11, 2018, 08:58:41 AM
Any news on whether Deano is bringing any of his backroom team?
 I think this is important.

Check out @MattHughesTimes’s Tweet: https://twitter.com/MattHughesTimes/status/1050295836297580544?s=09

I can't tell if his Profile Pic is supposed to be a comedy one or not?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CJ on October 11, 2018, 10:15:06 AM
Really pleased with this. And 'Head Coach' on the training ground rather than 'Manager' in his office. Given the dysfunctional defence Bruce has left him we need to be patient and give him time to build his team and style, and for a change it will be a pleasure going to the game rather than a chore.

Hats off to the new owners not just for these appointments but also for building a structure in the background which will serve us for years to come. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rigadon on October 11, 2018, 10:15:12 AM
We have a very strong squad of attacking players, who the last coaches weren't getting anywhere near enough out of.  So, we've appointed a strong coach with attacking tendencies.  Perfectly logical.  Not the Villa way (thank fuck).
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on October 11, 2018, 10:23:39 AM
Smithy has pedigree in team play and nurtuing players to be moved on.

I take the first bit but the second is less necessary right now it's a case of having the developed players and getting them consistently performing .

Already the villa score every game it's just having the right cohesion in team play.

It can just be a matter of how much the players adapt as much as how Smithy adapts to the club.
 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: darren woolley on October 11, 2018, 10:34:37 AM
I went out to the cinema as part of our work do with free beer which was really nice so I didn't find out until after 12 O Clock about Dean Smith which I'm really pleased about and I was tipsy so now I can say welcome to Aston Villa Dean Smith and welcome back JT.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: JUAN PABLO on October 11, 2018, 10:42:18 AM
brentford fans raving bout him on TS

It was the start of something special and they will be in for 2/3 of our players , the football was so exciting , you will look forward to going down on a Saturday , Villa could be top 2 now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on October 11, 2018, 10:49:58 AM
Quote from: Dazvillain on October 11, 2018, 09:32:04 AM
Quote from: garyshawsknee on October 11, 2018, 09:10:54 AM
Richard O'Kelly to join as his assistant.
Is this now confirmed anywhere ?

This guy is 61 so it's good have a mixture of youth , the recent retired JT , and O'Kelly who works well with Smith and has a wise old head and great experience in football assisting Smithy as part of coaching team
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SamTheMouse on October 11, 2018, 10:52:01 AM
He'll do. Wouldn't have been my first choice, but he's got lots of promise. And although it shouldn't be a factor, the fact he's one of us is undeniably a nice bonus.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AlexAlexCropley on October 11, 2018, 11:16:20 AM
Cometh the hour,cometh the man
Haven't felt this excited at a managerial appointment since BFR.New era beckons.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: andyh on October 11, 2018, 11:49:08 AM
I am guessing no press conference/unveiling today, especially considering the news about Doug?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 11, 2018, 12:02:29 PM
I'd imagine he will have some words to say about Doug at his unveiling. I'd also assume that all the new appointees will be at a joint press conference, either today or in the near future.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: supertom on October 11, 2018, 12:13:47 PM
Of all the choices that were realistic, he's actually the safest bet I think. Henry would have been a big gamble. Faria too. Rodgers was never going to happen.
He plays the right way. He's taking a step up, but he's a Villa fan. He gets the club. He's got JT with him, and that will ease the connection to the squad.

Keeping Brentford as a top half fixture was no mean feet, particularly given their best players were always getting pilfered (including by ourselves.). He has a good squad at his disposal. He has time to sign another CH from the free agents if he wants to. But what I suspect, is that we'll finally see our attacking players excelling.

Give him time. A top 6 push is the target. Automatic is unrealistic now to be honest. He'll need 10 games at least to really implement what he wants. If that happens in conjunction with 'new manager bounce' then great, but you can't always rely on that. He's got so much drab negativity to drain out of our playing style. It goes right back to Randy's era. Our predominant go to, for decades now, has been defence minded, negative football. The last manager who actually looked liked they were attempting to change our footballing philosophy with any fore-thinking was probably Houllier (and he of course wasn't entirely successful). I think Smith will look to play the right way, and stick by that ethos, rather than retracting to a negative mindset. With our current squad, attack is the best form of defence.

This is also potentially good news for Scott Hogan too.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clark W Griswold on October 11, 2018, 12:38:49 PM
Good appointment on the face of it. Terry likewise. Should make a good team. The whole structure is starting to look really good, but you know when we've been shit for eight years and everything we've tried has turned to shit, I'm finding it very difficult to get excited and to have the belief that we're going to turn it around. I certainly hope this is the turning point though.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Godfrey Brian on October 11, 2018, 12:50:49 PM
Quote from: footyskillz on October 11, 2018, 10:49:58 AM
Quote from: Dazvillain on October 11, 2018, 09:32:04 AM
Quote from: garyshawsknee on October 11, 2018, 09:10:54 AM
Richard O'Kelly to join as his assistant.
Is this now confirmed anywhere ?

This guy is 61 so it's good have a mixture of youth , the recent retired JT , and O'Kelly who works well with Smith and has a wise old head and great experience in football assisting Smithy as part of coaching team
Sky sources saying it's happened. So that's two Great Barr  guys at the helm. Just needs Craig Shakespeare to join as well and John Terry will be talking like a Peaky Blinder within a week!  :)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: frankmosswasmyuncle on October 11, 2018, 12:51:13 PM
At last it looks like there's a serious bit of thinking behind the appointment(s).


Smith has been part of a very co-ordinated set up at Brentford and The Villa will be a very different prospect....that's why I think that Pitarch is also a key appointment, and that Smith's role is "coach".
More background staff to come but I feel optimistic at last, where I felt despair over the last 6 months!


Come on you Villa boys!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: achilles on October 11, 2018, 12:53:52 PM
Let's all be positive as this is the start of a new era, with a coach that actually knows what he is doing and has proved it!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: martin o`who?? on October 11, 2018, 01:06:41 PM
Totally behind this appointment.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villa75 on October 11, 2018, 01:21:04 PM
P!ease, PLEASE, play attacking football, Mr Smith!

We have the attacking capabilities to worry every single team in this division. Give the opposition plenty to worry about from the off. Sure, we'll concede here and there, but we do that anyway.

Go for it from the off, and the fans will back you all the way. 👍
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TonyD on October 11, 2018, 01:23:26 PM
Attack, attack, attack....
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: simon ward 50 on October 11, 2018, 01:48:09 PM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on October 10, 2018, 10:34:56 PM
I wonder if we will start playing Dexys' "Geno" again?

We can hope!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: old man villa fan on October 11, 2018, 02:01:17 PM
I didn't really have a first choice as there was never a standout candidate in my mind. There were unrealistic combinations I thought would be great but one or the other was probably never gettable.   In the end, after having satisfied me in getting rid of Bruce, I decided to just sit and await the decision of the club,  who after all are in the best position to see who meets the club's needs and direction.

Having seen how the whole structure is being put together, this probably pleases me more than the selection of manager. Having said that, Smith would appear to be a very good fit with that structure, with the extra strength of Terry. The appointment of Terry could be a very good decision as he could take some of the media focus off Smith, allowing him to get on and do what he does best.  The days of a single manager with a couple of coaches have gone. Today it is all about having a management team.

People need to give this time as it is a complete change in thinking, especially when you take into account the number of players that are here on loan and those that we probably not give new contracts to.

I fully support the approach taken by the Club and look forward with optimism for the first time in years.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Tuscans on October 11, 2018, 02:15:24 PM
A few more Brentford fans rang up Talksport this morning saying what to expect from Smith. "You'll enjoy watching football again, an attacking more expansive way of playing but do expect to concede sloppy goals because of the risk he takes going forward".

He'll love Jedinak then.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on October 11, 2018, 02:18:56 PM
That’s where Terry becomes critical. Divide and conquer in terms of responsibility.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Man With A Stick on October 11, 2018, 02:28:22 PM
Quote from: PeterWithe on October 11, 2018, 08:11:09 AM
So as he’s a local bloke what are all our tenuous links to Deano?

I met him at Boldmere St Michaels when he was Walsall manager. He was with a mate of mine who went to school with him and was watching their youth team play in the Bham Senior Cup. Nice fella, just seemed a straight up normal lad.

He went to my old school, as people used to talk about him a few years later when I was there (and he was playing for Walsall) , so I've kept an eye out for him ever since.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brend'Watkins on October 11, 2018, 02:35:02 PM
Quote from: Tuscans on October 11, 2018, 02:15:24 PM
A few more Brentford fans rang up Talksport this morning saying what to expect from Smith. "You'll enjoy watching football again, an attacking more expansive way of playing but do expect to concede sloppy goals because of the risk he takes going forward".

He'll love Jedinak then.

I reckon we've seen the last of Jed in central defence and not before time. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rodders on October 11, 2018, 02:38:50 PM
Impressive conduct from NSWE and delivered very neatly. I'm looking forward to seeing us push forward on the field and off.

Good luck to our new management team and can we have the round badge back please?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ian c. on October 11, 2018, 02:55:23 PM
Quote from: Tuscans on October 11, 2018, 02:15:24 PM
A few more Brentford fans rang up Talksport this morning saying what to expect from Smith. "You'll enjoy watching football again, an attacking more expansive way of playing but do expect to concede sloppy goals because of the risk he takes going forward".

He'll love Jedinak then.

I think we might have to go the full Kevin Keegan until we can get another central defender and left back.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: davidb on October 11, 2018, 03:07:51 PM
Seems good on paper, I'll say it quietly, but Warburton looked good at Brentford and the wheels fell off once he left without the infrastucture brentford have in place to support him
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Marlon From Bearwood on October 11, 2018, 03:12:58 PM
Quote from: The Man With A Stick on October 11, 2018, 02:28:22 PM
Quote from: PeterWithe on October 11, 2018, 08:11:09 AM
So as he’s a local bloke what are all our tenuous links to Deano?

I met him at Boldmere St Michaels when he was Walsall manager. He was with a mate of mine who went to school with him and was watching their youth team play in the Bham Senior Cup. Nice fella, just seemed a straight up normal lad.

He went to my old school, as people used to talk about him a few years later when I was there (and he was playing for Walsall) , so I've kept an eye out for him ever since.

What school did he go to? I grew up in Great Barr myself. A mate of mine used to drink with Smith’s brother in the Scott Arms.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on October 11, 2018, 03:25:26 PM
Quote from: davidb on October 11, 2018, 03:07:51 PM
Seems good on paper, I'll say it quietly, but Warburton looked good at Brentford and the wheels fell off once he left without the infrastucture brentford have in place to support him

Warburton had never made a single league appearance as a player. He played non-league with Enfield and Boreham Wood then was in charge of Watfrod's academy. Dean Smith made nearly 600 league appearances in a career that took in five clubs and has eight years of fairly successful management under his belt at Walsall and Brentford. Also Warburton always comes across to me as a self important twat.  As for a supportive infrastructure surely Purslow, Pitarch and Terry amongst others are there for that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on October 11, 2018, 03:27:43 PM
Accurate article from The Metro. (https://metro.co.uk/2018/10/11/hes-not-as-glamourous-as-thierry-henry-but-dean-smith-can-rebuild-broken-aston-villa-8027746/)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nev on October 11, 2018, 03:34:39 PM
Quote from: Drummond on October 11, 2018, 03:27:43 PM
Accurate article from The Metro. (https://metro.co.uk/2018/10/11/hes-not-as-glamourous-as-thierry-henry-but-dean-smith-can-rebuild-broken-aston-villa-8027746/)

Now that blokes knows his stuff, or reads this site regularly.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Diablo on October 11, 2018, 03:35:16 PM
Jeez that's a rare, well written and thought out article - from the Metro too?!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on October 11, 2018, 03:38:29 PM
Great appointment, really looking forward to seeing where he can take us. he's been the fans' choice for a while now.

I just wish that little devil on my shoulder, shouting Graham Turner in my ear, would fuck of though.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aldridgeboy on October 11, 2018, 03:39:34 PM
Good article that. Sums it all up very well.
I’m pleased with the decision. Henry was such a gamble and possibly a car crash waiting to happen.

The Brentford fans stating we may concede sloppy goals on Talk Sport - well we do that anyway- without good attacking. So straight away there’s an improvement!!

Any chance of Terry registering as a player to get us a bit of cover ?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Godfrey Brian on October 11, 2018, 03:40:07 PM
Quote from: Marlon From Bearwood on October 11, 2018, 03:12:58 PM
Quote from: The Man With A Stick on October 11, 2018, 02:28:22 PM
Quote from: PeterWithe on October 11, 2018, 08:11:09 AM
So as he’s a local bloke what are all our tenuous links to Deano?

I met him at Boldmere St Michaels when he was Walsall manager. He was with a mate of mine who went to school with him and was watching their youth team play in the Bham Senior Cup. Nice fella, just seemed a straight up normal lad.

He went to my old school, as people used to talk about him a few years later when I was there (and he was playing for Walsall) , so I've kept an eye out for him ever since.

What school did he go to? I grew up in Great Barr myself. A mate of mine used to drink with Smith’s brother in the Scott Arms.
Dartmouth -it's in the bit of Great Barr that's in Sandwell.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Des Little on October 11, 2018, 03:44:10 PM
I'd have thought the Swansea game will see a decent turnout now
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on October 11, 2018, 03:49:31 PM
Quote from: simon ward 50 on October 11, 2018, 01:48:09 PM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on October 10, 2018, 10:34:56 PM
I wonder if we will start playing Dexys' "Geno" again?

We can hope!
That would be brill. Someone plz contact the club immediately.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on October 11, 2018, 03:49:34 PM
Quote from: Chico Hamilton III on October 11, 2018, 03:38:29 PM
Great appointment, really looking forward to seeing where he can take us. he's been the fans' choice for a while now.

I just wish that little devil on my shoulder, shouting Graham Turner in my ear, would fuck of though.

Graham Turner took over a team of internationals and European champions, and had to rebuild our most successful team of the past hundred years. Smiffy is dealing with Championship players. It's a big difference.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on October 11, 2018, 03:51:34 PM
Quote from: Chico Hamilton III on October 11, 2018, 03:38:29 PM
Great appointment, really looking forward to seeing where he can take us. he's been the fans' choice for a while now.

I just wish that little devil on my shoulder, shouting Graham Turner in my ear, would fuck of though.

I did have a little wobble and mentally compare him with Graham Turner when he was appointed, but without wishing to have a dig at Doug on today of all days I do think Turner was brought in a Doug's 'yes man' with a remit to bomb out the Championship and European Cup winners who were big characters and more popular than Doug.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on October 11, 2018, 03:59:38 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on October 11, 2018, 03:49:34 PM
Quote from: Chico Hamilton III on October 11, 2018, 03:38:29 PM
Great appointment, really looking forward to seeing where he can take us. he's been the fans' choice for a while now.

I just wish that little devil on my shoulder, shouting Graham Turner in my ear, would fuck of though.

Graham Turner took over a team of internationals and European champions, and had to rebuild our most successful team of the past hundred years. Smiffy is dealing with Championship players. It's a big difference.
I have a little angle whispering another 'Brian Little' era in my ear!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Diablo on October 11, 2018, 04:01:12 PM
A little angle or a little angel? Either way let's hope so!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: DB on October 11, 2018, 04:05:10 PM
Quote from: Diablo on October 11, 2018, 04:01:12 PM
A little angle or a little angel? Either way let's hope so!

You would know how to spell it with your username !
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on October 11, 2018, 04:07:53 PM
Quote from: Drummond on October 11, 2018, 03:27:43 PM
Accurate article from The Metro. (https://metro.co.uk/2018/10/11/hes-not-as-glamourous-as-thierry-henry-but-dean-smith-can-rebuild-broken-aston-villa-8027746/)
What a superbly accurate article about our current position. He managed to avoid all the usual "old footballers stick together" cliches. How refreshing. "Bruce stuck to his tradition of putting square pegs in round holes" Brilliant. And he nailed us as a fan base with his "they will give him time" quote. We may have been a bit quick to turn on our managers from time to time but I honestly feel we will all "buy into" this latest attempt to put the club back on the big stage in world football. I know I am. Thanks for posting. UTV
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on October 11, 2018, 04:09:47 PM
Adrian Durham on Talksport has just said that at 4.15 they will be discussing whether Dean Smith should be allowed to leave one Championship club for another during the season. Obviously the answer is 'yes' as there is no rule against it but it should be an interesting debate.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on October 11, 2018, 04:14:53 PM
Darren Gough says no club should be allowed to sack a manager during the season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: clash city rocker on October 11, 2018, 04:15:45 PM
Quote from: Damo70 on October 11, 2018, 04:09:47 PM
Adrian Durham on Talksport has just said that at 4.15 they will be discussing whether Dean Smith should be allowed to leave one Championship club for another during the season. Obviously the answer is 'yes' as there is no rule against it but it should be an interesting debate.

Well if they are talking about it we must still be important then.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: enigma on October 11, 2018, 04:23:38 PM
Happy with this. Smith did a great job at Brentford and got results while playing decent football. I know Terry retired from playing but any chance he could come back as player coach? We desperately need him on the pitch.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Diablo on October 11, 2018, 04:37:40 PM
Quote from: DB on October 11, 2018, 04:05:10 PM
Quote from: Diablo on October 11, 2018, 04:01:12 PM
A little angle or a little angel? Either way let's hope so!

You would know how to spell it with your username !
Haha! Absolutely! There are reasons why I am interested in such matters (other interests besides the Villa of course, include pain (masochism, sadism) souls (lost or otherwise), contracts, nakedness and hot climates)  ;-)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ktvillan on October 11, 2018, 04:47:52 PM
A colleague who supports Villa but watches a lot of Walsall really rates Smith from his time at the Saddlers, so it's not as if he hasn't done well without the backroom set up he's had at Brentford.  As for Graham Turner comparisons, I doubt Pitarch will be countenencing signings in the mould of Simon Stainrod.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on October 11, 2018, 04:56:30 PM
Quote from: Diablo on October 11, 2018, 04:37:40 PM
Quote from: DB on October 11, 2018, 04:05:10 PM
Quote from: Diablo on October 11, 2018, 04:01:12 PM
A little angle or a little angel? Either way let's hope so!

You would know how to spell it with your username !
Haha! Absolutely! There are reasons why I am interested in such matters (other interests besides the Villa of course, include pain (masochism, sadism) souls (lost or otherwise), contracts, nakedness and hot climates)  ;-)

Oh, Hi Fergal.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kieron on October 11, 2018, 05:25:38 PM
https://twitter.com/AVFCOfficial/status/1050419529858371585


"🎥 Dean Smith will meet the media on Monday from 4pm

You’ll be able to watch the broadcast press conference LIVE on our YouTube channel 👉 http://bit.ly/2gCsXCy"


Five days from appointment to presser is quite a while, isn't it?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: garyfouroaks on October 11, 2018, 06:12:35 PM
I am pretty neutral on this.

It seems like a decent appointment, and Smith has numerous positives, not least of which is knowing the Division.

I don't think that the team is as bad as recent results, nor that Bruce was that bad a manager.

Fingers crossed.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john2710 on October 11, 2018, 06:14:44 PM
The thing I noticed about Brentford, other than playing attractive / progressive football, was that they were no pushovers. There was most definitely a nasty streak to their game, something that has been missing from us for a long time & very much needed in this league.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ez on October 11, 2018, 06:19:40 PM
New manager bounce will see us in the top 6
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rigadon on October 11, 2018, 06:21:36 PM
Quote from: john2710 on October 11, 2018, 06:14:44 PM
The thing I noticed about Brentford, other than playing attractive / progressive football, was that they were no pushovers. There was most definitely a nasty streak to their game, something that has been missing from us for a long time & very much needed in this league.


You were not alone in noticing that.  Yes, let's hope we show the same characteristics but with better players playing better football, aggressively. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on October 11, 2018, 06:26:25 PM
I know a Brentford fan as well

he said today that he doesn't know any other way but to play attacking football
his negative is he has no plan B (where have we heard that before) but he said he had no plan B apart from attacking football
late goals conceded and all that

he takes risks and will often do something to try and win a game and end up drawing or losing

I can live with that
I'm one of the few on here who refused to criticise Sherwood for going for it when 2 nill up at Leicester

i haven't been this season because it was just not worth it for me, nothing but respect to those who never give up but I couldn't take any more of it under Bruce

I have just bought two tickets today for me and my 10 year old, I feel it's safe to start taking him again

here's to having hope again

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chinchilla Bathhouse on October 11, 2018, 06:30:39 PM
I reckon I can live with no plan B as long as plan A is trying to score shedloads of goals.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: DB on October 11, 2018, 06:42:02 PM
Has Richard O'Kelly joined?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TheMalandro on October 11, 2018, 06:46:14 PM
Same here John E. I haven't been to Villa Park once this season.
Looking forward to it again.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: saunders_heroes on October 11, 2018, 06:46:24 PM
Quote from: ez on October 11, 2018, 06:19:40 PM
New manager bounce will see us in the top 6

Yes please!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 11, 2018, 06:58:08 PM
Maybe Terry will help him with a plan B, I’m sure he’ll have some thoughts to add.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: purpletrousers on October 11, 2018, 07:07:01 PM
Come out as a big U2 fan, presumably given this Parish, the 'Out' thread might come a little quicker? ;)

Amidst a very busy period of life, I also couldn't face travelling up to Brum to go see us so far this year.
Father & son will be reunited in the Holte a week on Saturday. Onwards & upwards.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on October 11, 2018, 07:07:52 PM
Quote from: kieron on October 11, 2018, 05:25:38 PM
https://twitter.com/AVFCOfficial/status/1050419529858371585


"🎥 Dean Smith will meet the media on Monday from 4pm

You’ll be able to watch the broadcast press conference LIVE on our YouTube channel 👉 http://bit.ly/2gCsXCy"


Five days from appointment to presser is quite a while, isn't it?
Not really he's probably a bit busy
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Herman on October 11, 2018, 07:18:55 PM
If he's a U2 fan, we should get rid. Obviously a wrong 'un
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on October 11, 2018, 07:35:10 PM
Quote from: Herman on October 11, 2018, 07:18:55 PM
If he's a U2 fan, we should get rid. Obviously a wrong 'un

This is why it's taking so long for his first presser - he's spending that time playing Bonopoly, it's like Monopoly but the streets have no names.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dante Lavelli on October 11, 2018, 07:53:30 PM
Quote from: john e on October 11, 2018, 06:26:25 PM
I know a Brentford fan as well

he said today that he doesn't know any other way but to play attacking football
his negative is he has no plan B (where have we heard that before) but he said he had no plan B apart from attacking football
late goals conceded and all that

Brentford had a weird system where success was not measured by goals/win/league place like the rest of the planet.  Smith was given other KPIs such as crosses made, passes completed in the final third as the basis of how he'd be judged.  The belief being that if the KPIs were achieved the results would take care of themselves.  Consequently there only was one plan anything else is likely to have inversely affected his chances of hitting his targets.

Weird? yes, but that's how Brentford roll.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 11, 2018, 07:58:19 PM
It kind of makes sense, because results should ultimately follow if you’re performing to particular standards. However an approach like that is heavily reliant on the method being spot on and your reading of stats being correct, a slight miscalculation will knacker the whole methodology.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Stu on October 11, 2018, 08:09:53 PM
After so many changes in the past 8 years, I'm pretty much inured to whatever is coming our way. Whatever happens, happens.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on October 11, 2018, 08:11:10 PM
I think there's a lot to be said for a different set of KPIs. If you want long-term success, sustained high levels of things like completed forward passes in the final third, crosses that find their man, corners won, shots on target, etc., will be more indicative of what will most likely come to fruition when compared to how often you've jammed your way to four points from two shots in a fortnight.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dorsetvillian on October 11, 2018, 08:24:18 PM
I was thinking to myself last night that if it was Moyes who got the job it would have made think seriously about going to games. Waking to find out that Dean Smith had been appointed gives me hope and a good chance of seeing Villa play attacking football home and away.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: BoVillan esq on October 11, 2018, 08:49:35 PM
Wish him well.

Good to see John Terry back, hope he can instill some good defending mentality into the Villa defence, this should be a good grounding for him, if he turns out to be as good a manger as he was player then somebody will reap the rewards of this very talented bloke.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT on October 11, 2018, 08:50:49 PM
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on October 11, 2018, 08:11:10 PM
I think there's a lot to be said for a different set of KPIs. If you want long-term success, sustained high levels of things like completed forward passes in the final third, crosses that find their man, corners won, shots on target, etc., will be more indicative of what will most likely come to fruition when compared to how often you've jammed your way to four points from two shots in a fortnight.

I reckon we'll even be able to take a throw in and find one of our own players within a few weeks!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: WALTERS WARRIORS on October 11, 2018, 08:51:19 PM
Quote from: dorsetvillian on October 11, 2018, 08:24:18 PM
I was thinking to myself last night that if it was Moyes who got the job it would have made think seriously about going to games. Waking to find out that Dean Smith had been appointed gives me hope and a good chance of seeing Villa play attacking football home and away.

The thought of Moyes is unthinkable. But having Terry back guided by DS who has got an established ethic and philosophy of how he wants his team to play is refreshing.
PS say hello to Craig Willis. I am one of his Birmingham mates ……..
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on October 11, 2018, 08:57:07 PM
Brentford create more chances than just about any side in the league. If an emphasis is placed on that for us, chance creation, then you'd feel that our superior forwards would see us finish games off that Brentford aren't.

If they'd have had Abraham, Kodjia or Hogan up top against Leeds, they'd have buried them.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sirlordbaltimore on October 11, 2018, 08:59:17 PM


A fitting week on Saturday would be a full Villa Park, in full voice to welcome Smith and to also pay tribute to old Deadly

Plus a well won 3 points and a bit of unity back on the stands
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chris Smith on October 11, 2018, 08:59:39 PM
Quote from: CT on October 11, 2018, 08:50:49 PM
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on October 11, 2018, 08:11:10 PM
I think there's a lot to be said for a different set of KPIs. If you want long-term success, sustained high levels of things like completed forward passes in the final third, crosses that find their man, corners won, shots on target, etc., will be more indicative of what will most likely come to fruition when compared to how often you've jammed your way to four points from two shots in a fortnight.

I reckon we'll even be able to take a throw in and find one of our own players within a few weeks!

Don’t get carried away, CT.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on October 11, 2018, 09:36:56 PM
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on October 11, 2018, 08:11:10 PM
I think there's a lot to be said for a different set of KPIs. If you want long-term success, sustained high levels of things like completed forward passes in the final third, crosses that find their man, corners won, shots on target, etc., will be more indicative of what will most likely come to fruition when compared to how often you've jammed your way to four points from two shots in a fortnight.

I'd agree with this, it's all about efficiency, how well can you convert possession into chances, chances into shots and shots into goals.  In defence the reverse is true, you stop goals by limiting shots and you limit shots by not letting teams create chances. There's nothing groundbreaking to this, it's all pretty obvious but over the last 7-8 years we've had managers who've repeatedly ignored parts of this.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on October 11, 2018, 09:48:04 PM
Quote from: The Edge on October 11, 2018, 07:07:52 PM
Quote from: kieron on October 11, 2018, 05:25:38 PM
https://twitter.com/AVFCOfficial/status/1050419529858371585


"🎥 Dean Smith will meet the media on Monday from 4pm

You’ll be able to watch the broadcast press conference LIVE on our YouTube channel 👉 http://bit.ly/2gCsXCy"


Five days from appointment to presser is quite a while, isn't it?
Not really he's probably a bit busy

It's probably more to allow a period of quiet out of respect for the passing of Doug.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 11, 2018, 09:51:11 PM
Or because there is a lorry convention type thing going on at Villa Park (twas on Midlands Today).
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on October 11, 2018, 09:55:16 PM
SKY Sport's and Talksport's Brentford supporting Natalie Sawyer is unhappy with Dean Smith leaving her club. I for one would be prepared to console her in any way she wished.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: garyshawsknee on October 11, 2018, 10:03:43 PM
That would be one long queue Damo.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: clash city rocker on October 11, 2018, 10:04:40 PM
Quote from: Damo70 on October 11, 2018, 09:55:16 PM
SKY Sport's and Talksport's Brentford supporting Natalie Sawyer is unhappy with Dean Smith leaving her club. I for one would be prepared to console her in any way she wished.

Must agree I think it would be my duty as a fellow football fan to help her through her frustrations.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on October 11, 2018, 10:11:13 PM
Quote from: CT on October 11, 2018, 08:50:49 PM
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on October 11, 2018, 08:11:10 PM
I think there's a lot to be said for a different set of KPIs. If you want long-term success, sustained high levels of things like completed forward passes in the final third, crosses that find their man, corners won, shots on target, etc., will be more indicative of what will most likely come to fruition when compared to how often you've jammed your way to four points from two shots in a fortnight.

I reckon we'll even be able to take a throw in and find one of our own players within a few weeks!

I genuinely can't remember the last time I felt we did that well.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: andyh on October 11, 2018, 10:30:15 PM
Throwins....schmowins!

I want to see a midfielder get further forward than our striker.
When we see a midfielder go beyond the striker will be the day we know we have arrived in nirvana.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on October 11, 2018, 10:58:04 PM
You lot want the moon on a stick!  The day I see a decent left back in a Villa shirt is the day I know we've finally turned a corner.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on October 11, 2018, 10:59:02 PM
Quote from: Risso on October 11, 2018, 10:58:04 PM
You lot want the moon on a stick!  The day I see a decent left back in a Villa shirt is the day I know we've finally turned a corner.

Ah but you'll have to wait at least 3 months for that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villan from luton on October 11, 2018, 11:07:43 PM
Leroy Rosenior talking about Dean Smith on sky. Speaks so much sense and says Smith will bring a cohesion to the team. Amazing when he played under Bruce but says Villa didn't have that
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Tuscans on October 11, 2018, 11:11:58 PM
Quote from: clash city rocker on October 11, 2018, 10:04:40 PM
Quote from: Damo70 on October 11, 2018, 09:55:16 PM
SKY Sport's and Talksport's Brentford supporting Natalie Sawyer is unhappy with Dean Smith leaving her club. I for one would be prepared to console her in any way she wished.

Must agree I think it would be my duty as a fellow football fan to help her through her frustrations.
...I would just fuck her fucking fanny off you twats!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on October 11, 2018, 11:14:37 PM
Quote from: Tuscans on October 11, 2018, 11:11:58 PM
Quote from: clash city rocker on October 11, 2018, 10:04:40 PM
Quote from: Damo70 on October 11, 2018, 09:55:16 PM
SKY Sport's and Talksport's Brentford supporting Natalie Sawyer is unhappy with Dean Smith leaving her club. I for one would be prepared to console her in any way she wished.

Must agree I think it would be my duty as a fellow football fan to help her through her frustrations.
...I would just fuck her fucking fanny off you twats!

Post of the Week.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on October 11, 2018, 11:29:12 PM
In other ways of speaking of playing away Dean Smith Brentord hadn't won away from home all season
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on October 11, 2018, 11:31:59 PM
Quote from: footyskillz on October 11, 2018, 11:29:12 PM
In other ways of speaking of playing away Dean Smith Brentord hadn't won away from home all season

He had a superb away record at Walsall last couple of seasons he was there, was often better than the home form so pretty MON esque.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on October 11, 2018, 11:37:35 PM
Quote from: Tuscans on October 11, 2018, 11:11:58 PM
I would just fuck her fucking fanny off you twats!
You are Donald Trump and muscling in as another  celeb Villa fan.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KevinGage on October 12, 2018, 12:25:21 AM
 clicky (https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/dean-smith-exclusive-new-aston-13399682)

Quote
“I also believe British coaches need to go and learn a lot more about what's out there as well. At Brentford, myself and (assistant) Richard O'Kelly brought in Thomas Frank, who was manager at (Danish club) Brondby, to help out on our coaching staff because he can bring us something different.

“We can learn from each other and Thomas has a different outlook, but like young players, coaches need to expand their horizons and keep challenging themselves – and that includes working in a different country.”
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: JD on October 12, 2018, 01:36:59 AM
Quote from: Chico Hamilton III on October 11, 2018, 03:38:29 PM
Great appointment, really looking forward to seeing where he can take us. he's been the fans' choice for a while now.

I just wish that little devil on my shoulder, shouting Graham Turner in my ear, would fuck of though.

Luckily mine is saying Ron Saunders.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Hillbilly on October 12, 2018, 03:45:55 AM
Quote from: davidb on October 11, 2018, 03:07:51 PM
Seems good on paper, I'll say it quietly, but Warburton looked good at Brentford and the wheels fell off once he left without the infrastucture brentford have in place to support him
To be fair, Warburton went to a club that was only 3 years old so understandably it was an unprofessional shambles.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villafirst on October 12, 2018, 05:48:54 AM
It's now a race against time. Bruce should've gone after the Sheffield United & Burton shambles. At least it would've afforded Dean Smith more precious time. Dean has inherited an absolute mess. Bruce should've been fired alone for letting Elphick go without a replacement lined up; perhaps the most ludicrous decision of his tenure!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on October 12, 2018, 07:31:25 AM
Maybe but in mitigation  the fact is that Elphick is utterly useless, letting that lad go to Port Vale was a bigger crime as was getting Axel back and playing him at right back. And letting Steer go. Etc.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: UK Redsox on October 12, 2018, 07:44:43 AM
Quote from: Risso on October 11, 2018, 10:58:04 PM
You lot want the moon on a stick!  The day I see a decent left back in a Villa shirt is the day I know we've finally turned a corner.

Are you Lee or Herring ?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave shelley on October 12, 2018, 08:36:08 AM
Quote from: olaftab on October 11, 2018, 11:37:35 PM
Quote from: Tuscans on October 11, 2018, 11:11:58 PM
I would just fuck her fucking fanny off you twats!
You are Donald Trump and muscling in as another  celeb Villa fan.

Or Bill Cosby.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave shelley on October 12, 2018, 09:14:43 AM
A few years ago I was at home for Christmas, I remember the exact year.  Villa were away to Stoke on Boxing Day and, having no booking record and not sure if you could get tickets without one, me and my lad went to Walsall who were playing Sheffield Wednesday who brought a great crowd with them so the atmosphere was good.

Wednesday went a goal up somewhat against the run of play as Walsall were playing some pretty neat football.  They kept plugging away and a couple of minutes into stoppage time equalised.  Far from shutting up shop, Walsall went for it and another minute or so later got a winner.  I think that's the attitude we can expect to see, at least I hope so.  Villa drew 0-0 btw.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on October 12, 2018, 09:15:43 AM
Quote from: mr underhill on October 12, 2018, 07:31:25 AM
Maybe but in mitigation  the fact is that Elphick is utterly useless, letting that lad go to Port Vale was a bigger crime as was getting Axel back and playing him at right back. And letting Steer go. Etc.

Elphick wasn't utterly useless at all.  Not the greatest defender ever, but certainly better and more mobile than Jedinak.  He did perfectly OK in his few appearances last year.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on October 12, 2018, 09:33:50 AM
Looks like a decent crowd for his first game, just visited the ticket office and struggled to get two tickets together, they will make a decision on the upper tier of TR early next week.

Be nice for him, ay it?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: JUAN PABLO on October 12, 2018, 09:33:57 AM
I did not realise Deano bought James Tarkowski , he can spot a player .
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: JUAN PABLO on October 12, 2018, 09:47:24 AM
Quote from: Risso on October 12, 2018, 09:15:43 AM
Quote from: mr underhill on October 12, 2018, 07:31:25 AM
Maybe but in mitigation  the fact is that Elphick is utterly useless, letting that lad go to Port Vale was a bigger crime as was getting Axel back and playing him at right back. And letting Steer go. Etc.

Elphick wasn't utterly useless at all.  Not the greatest defender ever, but certainly better and more mobile than Jedinak.  He did perfectly OK in his few appearances last year.

yeah , I thought people said he did well when he came in for Terry injured. I still do not understand why he let RDL thou and bring some one else's player in on loan.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mattjpa on October 12, 2018, 09:51:58 AM
Quote from: Risso on October 12, 2018, 09:15:43 AM
Quote from: mr underhill on October 12, 2018, 07:31:25 AM
Maybe but in mitigation  the fact is that Elphick is utterly useless, letting that lad go to Port Vale was a bigger crime as was getting Axel back and playing him at right back. And letting Steer go. Etc.

Elphick wasn't utterly useless at all.  Not the greatest defender ever, but certainly better and more mobile than Jedinak.  He did perfectly OK in his few appearances last year.
Completely agree. He came with a good pedigree and a good work ethic. He dropped a couple of clangers in his first 4/5 games  which combined with being at a much bigger club and having much more pressure probably didnt help him. I always thought after his early blunders, he would get the odd chance here and there in cup games but always looked like he was playing as if he was on trial. Fat man must have shattered his confidence completely, this should have been his time here.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on October 12, 2018, 10:09:36 AM
I respect your view but to me he always looked like an accident that had happened.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on October 12, 2018, 10:16:22 AM
I didn't think Elphick was that bad either. Didn't he captain Bournemouth in their promotion season?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on October 12, 2018, 10:18:58 AM
Quote from: Clampy on October 12, 2018, 10:16:22 AM
I didn't think Elphick was that bad either. Didn't he captain Bournemouth in their promotion season?

I think he did Clampy.  Which probably means that he'd have done better under Smith than he would Bruce. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 12, 2018, 10:19:38 AM
He was good till he signed for us, then shite. Like a 2010s Kinsella. I've no objection to Bruce getting rid of him. Not bothering to acquire a replacement when we had already lost Terry was lunacy, though.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kipeye on October 12, 2018, 10:24:37 AM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on October 12, 2018, 10:19:38 AM
He was good till he signed for us, then shite. Like a 2010s Kinsella. I've no objection to Bruce getting rid of him. Not bothering to acquire a replacement when we had already lost Terry was lunacy, though.
Not so. He was pretty good when he first arrived and played well with Chester. He struggled later on and never recovered fully. Signs he can play -he has had good games-not just easy games. Good coaching and team structure would help any centre half. One thing no-one would criticise was his attitude.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tomd2103 on October 12, 2018, 10:40:30 AM
Quote from: mattjpa on October 12, 2018, 09:51:58 AM
Quote from: Risso on October 12, 2018, 09:15:43 AM
Quote from: mr underhill on October 12, 2018, 07:31:25 AM
Maybe but in mitigation  the fact is that Elphick is utterly useless, letting that lad go to Port Vale was a bigger crime as was getting Axel back and playing him at right back. And letting Steer go. Etc.

Elphick wasn't utterly useless at all.  Not the greatest defender ever, but certainly better and more mobile than Jedinak.  He did perfectly OK in his few appearances last year.
Completely agree. He came with a good pedigree and a good work ethic. He dropped a couple of clangers in his first 4/5 games  which combined with being at a much bigger club and having much more pressure probably didnt help him. I always thought after his early blunders, he would get the odd chance here and there in cup games but always looked like he was playing as if he was on trial. Fat man must have shattered his confidence completely, this should have been his time here.

He made a decent start if I recall correctly, but then his confidence seemed to shatter and never really return.  I'm sure there were rumours that he had suffered some personal issues which I'm sure did not help and it was pretty clear that there were some issues between him and Bruce. 

One of the problems with playing Elphick and certain others is that Chester has to move across to the left side of central defence to accommodate them and he just doesn't look as comfortable on that side.     
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Richard on October 12, 2018, 10:45:20 AM
Totally agree re Chester - a left sided centre half and left back are the only signings we need to make in January.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: UK Redsox on October 12, 2018, 10:55:39 AM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on October 12, 2018, 10:19:38 AM
He was good till he signed for us, then shite. Like a 2010s Kinsella. I've no objection to Bruce getting rid of him. Not bothering to acquire a replacement when we had already lost Terry was lunacy, though.

This was the final nail for me and Bruce. Not bringing in another centre half should have seen him sacked at that point
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on October 12, 2018, 11:03:20 AM
Elphick had a great attitude from the moment he arrived. You could tell he'd been a captain, he helped the other new players to settle in and did ok when he started playing. However, confidence issues dogged him. And as has been said, letting him go and having no replacement? Absolutely ridiculous.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on October 12, 2018, 11:14:43 AM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on October 12, 2018, 10:19:38 AM
He was good till he signed for us, then shite. Like a 2010s Kinsella. I've no objection to Bruce getting rid of him. Not bothering to acquire a replacement when we had already lost Terry was lunacy, though.
Or the actions of someone trying to engineer himself  a 1.7 mill pay off....just sayin
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on October 12, 2018, 11:16:00 AM
Quote from: Richard on October 12, 2018, 10:45:20 AM
Totally agree re Chester - a left sided centre half and left back are the only signings we need to make in January.
Two of each I'd say.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SheffieldVillain on October 12, 2018, 11:20:01 AM
Quote from: Richard on October 12, 2018, 10:45:20 AM
Totally agree re Chester - a left sided centre half and left back are the only signings we need to make in January.

Wouldn't be at all surprised to see him in for Rico Henry come January. Signed him/promoted him to the first team twice already, promising young left back who has played for England youth teams.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on October 12, 2018, 11:43:16 AM
Bruce's defensive selections and formation reminded me of Eric Morecambe's famous quote. At best he was playing all the right players but not necessarily in the right order.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tomd2103 on October 12, 2018, 11:48:56 AM
Quote from: SheffieldVillain on October 12, 2018, 11:20:01 AM
Quote from: Richard on October 12, 2018, 10:45:20 AM
Totally agree re Chester - a left sided centre half and left back are the only signings we need to make in January.

Wouldn't be at all surprised to see him in for Rico Henry come January. Signed him/promoted him to the first team twice already, promising young left back who has played for England youth teams.

Depends on the financial situation I suppose, but as I said before I would be surprised if we weren't in for Chris Mepham from Brentford in January.  Came through the ranks at Chelsea and is a bit reminiscent of John Terry in that he is a right footed centre half who can play on the left side of central defence and is comfortable on the ball.  Given his background, it wouldn't surprise me at all if he has modelled his game on Terry's and so having him at the club would be a big draw.   
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Hookeysmith on October 12, 2018, 11:59:36 AM
As much as I am very excited by the appointment of a coach and a DOF I do however have some concerns on some of the stats I have seen.

As much as we assume he plays attacking football his win ratio is not as impressive as I would of expected and he never emulated the league position his predecessor did at Brentford

I really hope that it works out for the guy and for us
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on October 12, 2018, 12:08:55 PM
He has overachieved with both Walsall and Brentford consistently. Forget win ratio that only counts if you have the resources at a club that can and should compete at the highest level in its League. Smith has never had that. At Villa he will either make or break. Let’s hope in two years time we are fighting off champions league clubs from snaring him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on October 12, 2018, 12:12:41 PM
I remember watching Elphicks debut thinking ‘he’s not up to much, I hope he’s got it in him to get better’

He didn’t. I don’t think I saw him have an impressive game, not his fault, we’ve made better players than him go to pot quickly.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 12, 2018, 12:14:59 PM
Quote from: kipeye on October 12, 2018, 10:24:37 AM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on October 12, 2018, 10:19:38 AM
He was good till he signed for us, then shite. Like a 2010s Kinsella. I've no objection to Bruce getting rid of him. Not bothering to acquire a replacement when we had already lost Terry was lunacy, though.
Not so. He was pretty good when he first arrived and played well with Chester. He struggled later on and never recovered fully. Signs he can play -he has had good games-not just easy games. Good coaching and team structure would help any centre half. One thing no-one would criticise was his attitude.

I remember him being pretty bloody awful from the start. He only had a brief spell last season when he was vaguely competent.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on October 12, 2018, 12:17:06 PM
Quote from: Hookeysmith on October 12, 2018, 11:59:36 AM
As much as I am very excited by the appointment of a coach and a DOF I do however have some concerns on some of the stats I have seen.

As much as we assume he plays attacking football his win ratio is not as impressive as I would of expected and he never emulated the league position his predecessor did at Brentford

I really hope that it works out for the guy and for us

At Walsall he had issues finding a prolific goalscorer so they drew plenty of matches they dominated. Found Tom Bradshaw and that win percentage went up a fair bit in his last 18 months there.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Diablo on October 12, 2018, 12:17:13 PM
Quote from: Richard on October 12, 2018, 10:45:20 AM
Totally agree re Chester - a left sided centre half and left back are the only signings we need to make in January.
A decent keeper too would be nice - although if the almighty defensive mess is remedied it may not be such an issue
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 12, 2018, 12:18:09 PM
He'd probably have finished even higher with Brentford if they didn't sell their best players every season. To have a 40% win percentage in division 2 with Brentford is a massive achievement, their most consistent finishes for 70 years.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: QuintonVilla on October 12, 2018, 12:20:18 PM
Should be a big crowd for his first game in charge. Swansea have sold out 2800.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on October 12, 2018, 12:23:56 PM
Quote from: QuintonVilla on October 12, 2018, 12:20:18 PM
Should be a big crowd for his first game in charge. Swansea have sold out 2800.

Looking at our ticket selector for that game, there's not much availability left in the ground.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on October 12, 2018, 12:41:06 PM
Quote from: PeterWithe on October 12, 2018, 12:12:41 PM
I remember watching Elphicks debut thinking ‘he’s not up to much, I hope he’s got it in him to get better’

He didn’t. I don’t think I saw him have an impressive game, not his fault, we’ve made better players than him go to pot quickly.

From the few games he's played for Hull, they absolutely love him. Strange one.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on October 12, 2018, 12:46:05 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on October 12, 2018, 12:23:56 PM
Quote from: QuintonVilla on October 12, 2018, 12:20:18 PM
Should be a big crowd for his first game in charge. Swansea have sold out 2800.

Looking at our ticket selector for that game, there's not much availability left in the ground.

I’ve mentioned on another thread somewhere that I was in the ticket office earlier and struggled to get two together, had to move to the WL to get them. Lady said they would take a decision on opening the Upper Trinity early next week.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on October 12, 2018, 12:48:09 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on October 12, 2018, 12:41:06 PM
Quote from: PeterWithe on October 12, 2018, 12:12:41 PM
I remember watching Elphicks debut thinking ‘he’s not up to much, I hope he’s got it in him to get better’

He didn’t. I don’t think I saw him have an impressive game, not his fault, we’ve made better players than him go to pot quickly.

From the few games he's played for Hull, they absolutely love him. Strange one.

Indeed it is strange. In terms of mobility he makes Mile look like Rudolph Nureyev.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on October 12, 2018, 02:48:23 PM
Upper Trinity now open for Swansea. Nice.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on October 12, 2018, 04:22:29 PM
Quote from: Drummond on October 12, 2018, 02:48:23 PM
Upper Trinity now open for Swansea. Nice.

Saw your post.
Rang to claim our old seats.

They've charged me extra money. They've not done that previously.

It's ffp gorn mad.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on October 12, 2018, 04:33:15 PM
Does anybody know what's been happening since the appointment? Dean Smith had prepared to do double training sessions with Brentford this and next week but I haven't seen anything to say he's been at Bodymoor Heath with the players yet. Maybe he's with Terry and O'Kelly planning and only starting with the players on Monday.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: clash city rocker on October 12, 2018, 04:43:00 PM
Can't wait for next Saturday. I will have been at Ron Saunders first game but no idea what it was and I just hope we are now starting out on the same journey we had with the great man.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: West Derby Villan on October 12, 2018, 04:44:45 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on October 12, 2018, 04:33:15 PM
Does anybody know what's been happening since the appointment? Dean Smith had prepared to do double training sessions with Brentford this and next week but I haven't seen anything to say he's been at Bodymoor Heath with the players yet. Maybe he's with Terry and O'Kelly planning and only starting with the players on Monday.

Apparently his first press conference is on Monday 4pm
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: shipscat on October 12, 2018, 05:40:26 PM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on October 12, 2018, 12:14:59 PM
Quote from: kipeye on October 12, 2018, 10:24:37 AM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on October 12, 2018, 10:19:38 AM
He was good till he signed for us, then shite. Like a 2010s Kinsella. I've no objection to Bruce getting rid of him. Not bothering to acquire a replacement when we had already lost Terry was lunacy, though.
Not so. He was pretty good when he first arrived and played well with Chester. He struggled later on and never recovered fully. Signs he can play -he has had good games-not just easy games. Good coaching and team structure would help any centre half. One thing no-one would criticise was his attitude.

I remember him being pretty bloody awful from the start. He only had a brief spell last season when he was vaguely competent.


However, that vague spell of 6/7 games coincided with Terry being injured...In my opinion he did well,and Chester and him had the provisional beginnings of a partnership.Which is what that position is about...As  others have alluded to,I suspect it got a little personal with Bruce for whatever reason and he was in the out column.

I think Elphick would have been pushing for a start under Smith,he's played in a ball playing team before and Smith has talked about leadership in all aspects on the pitch.We won't know now thanks to Bruce's call.



Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on October 12, 2018, 06:07:19 PM
Elphick Hourane Bree Lansbury Hogan Macormac all came to us having played some effective football elsewhere

Bruce didn't get the best out of any of them, I don't think he improved one player while he was with us

Bruce was such a poor manager if Smith decides to play any of them again I would be prepared to wipe the slate clean and have a new look are them playing in a proper football system under a better coaching set up

I think we might see a lot more from players even those who have been playing regularly with the new set up

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 12, 2018, 06:08:47 PM
It was 3 games that Elphick started while Appleyard was injured, Samba or Jedi started the others.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Matt Collins on October 12, 2018, 06:16:27 PM
He takes training on Monday too

There's a really interesting chat with a Brentford fan on the villa view podcast / YouTube. Well worth a listen. Got me pretty excited about po it what might be on offer

Nothing unexpected. But reaffirms that the appt is likely to be good for hogan, jack, bjarnason (Lansbury?), Bree.

Less so for jedinak, Hutton, Whelan you'd have thought

Managing the transition will be the tricky bit
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Tayls_7 on October 12, 2018, 06:48:14 PM
I know optimism generally reigns with any new appointments but I can't help but be confdent of a big upturn in the fortunes of AVFC, both in the short and long term.  I  don't think Dean Smith will be overawed by this opportunity. He has implemented an attractive and successful approach to football for a years now. I think HDE did a tremendous job handing over to a billionaire he felt would take us forward. He wasn't to know the gormless twonk would take exception to the money he was hemorrhaging and paralyse us into this descent.  If the new owners have taken account of our recent and distant past then I  have an expectation that we can finally get this bloody shambles sorted.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 12, 2018, 07:13:06 PM
I’m optimistic for two reasons. Firstly that there appears to actually be a footballing strategy and structure in place at the club now. Secondly we have a Head Coach who has a clear vision in respect of how he wants play football, and most importantly he is actively involved in tactically arranging that method of play.
Villa have been crying out for a positive identity for years, and it looks like we’re heading in that direction.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on October 12, 2018, 07:20:52 PM
Quote from: Matt Collins on October 12, 2018, 06:16:27 PM
He takes training on Monday too

There's a really interesting chat with a Brentford fan on the villa view podcast / YouTube. Well worth a listen. Got me pretty excited about po it what might be on offer

Nothing unexpected. But reaffirms that the appt is likely to be good for hogan, jack, bjarnason (Lansbury?), Bree.

Less so for jedinak, Hutton, Whelan you'd have thought

Managing the transition will be the tricky bit

Those three are in the last year of their contract, so might move on quickly, perhaps January?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: andyh on October 12, 2018, 07:36:18 PM
I am overjoyed at the appointment of Deano and wish him all the very, very best.
I am also pleased at bringing back Terry, I think he will be invaluable in the dressing room.

But (are we allowed any buts yet)....I do have this very slight, nagging thought at the back of my mind.
The club has brought together 3 people, strangers to each other, in the expectation they will gell, and develop into a team.
We really have gone all out revolution rather than evolution.

I have confidence in Smith, I have confidence in Terry, but I  know feck all about Pitarch.

I just hope hope and pray that this gamble works and that they are able to form the formidable management team we so desperately need.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on October 12, 2018, 08:17:02 PM
Quote from: andyh on October 12, 2018, 07:36:18 PM
I am overjoyed at the appointment of Deano and wish him all the very, very best.
I am also pleased at bringing back Terry, I think he will be invaluable in the dressing room.

But (are we allowed any buts yet)....I do have this very slight, nagging thought at the back of my mind.
The club has brought together 3 people, strangers to each other, in the expectation they will gell, and develop into a team.
We really have gone all out revolution rather than evolution.

I have confidence in Smith, I have confidence in Terry, but I  know feck all about Pitarch.

I just hope hope and pray that this gamble works and that they are able to form the formidable management team we so desperately need.

I think we'd reached a dead end, evolutionarily. 50 years ago, revolution was apparently the only answer. I feel we're in a similar place now. We couldn't keep on doing little more than rearranging the deckchairs.

If there wasn't an element of risk, it wouldn't be much of a revolution. I'd rather we took the plunge now than suffer a slow drawn-out retreat from significance.

¡Larga vida a la revolución!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on October 12, 2018, 10:23:24 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on October 12, 2018, 07:13:06 PM
I’m optimistic for two reasons. Firstly that there appears to actually be a footballing strategy and structure in place at the club now. Secondly we have a Head Coach who has a clear vision in respect of how he wants play football, and most importantly he is actively involved in tactically arranging that method of play.
Villa have been crying out for a positive identity for years, and it looks like we’re heading in that direction.
Totally. Well said.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on October 12, 2018, 11:29:13 PM
Quote from: The Edge on October 12, 2018, 10:23:24 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on October 12, 2018, 07:13:06 PM
I’m optimistic for two reasons. Firstly that there appears to actually be a footballing strategy and structure in place at the club now. Secondly we have a Head Coach who has a clear vision in respect of how he wants play football, and most importantly he is actively involved in tactically arranging that method of play.
Villa have been crying out for a positive identity for years, and it looks like we’re heading in that direction.
Totally. Well said.

We also have that air of professionalism about us now as well.  Purslow was excellent with the recruitment.  Not a word to the press and four really promising appointments with O'Kelly joining us now as well.  Class in John Terry coming back as he knows the club and is well respected by the players.  The club seems to have brought the fans back on board with one fell swoop.  They will be richer for it too with good attendances.  Just imagine what these owners could bring us if we ever get promoted.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Skerra on October 12, 2018, 11:58:05 PM
Welcome Deano, great to have you with us.
If they cannot get a new CB in before the Swansea match, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see JT putting his boots back on, at least until January.

Can we please also expect us to make a bit of a go of it in the FA Cup matches when they comes around.
Don't need to play all the first team but but would like to see a good mix rather than change all 11 players for these matches.

UTV!!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tomd2103 on October 13, 2018, 12:06:05 AM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on October 12, 2018, 07:13:06 PM
I’m optimistic for two reasons. Firstly that there appears to actually be a footballing strategy and structure in place at the club now. Secondly we have a Head Coach who has a clear vision in respect of how he wants play football, and most importantly he is actively involved in tactically arranging that method of play.
Villa have been crying out for a positive identity for years, and it looks like we’re heading in that direction.

Agree Paul, but the more I think about it, the more I think that Dean Smith has to be given time to turn things around due to the mess Bruce has left.  I would like to see a young, dynamic, good footballing, attacking side at Villa Park, but think the squad will need some work to achieve that.  I hope he is bold enough to make some decisions regarding who doesn't fit his style of play and we can move forward.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villatillidie1982 on October 13, 2018, 01:03:38 AM
Quote from: john e on October 12, 2018, 06:07:19 PM
Elphick Hourane Bree Lansbury Hogan Macormac all came to us having played some effective football elsewhere

Bruce didn't get the best out of any of them, I don't think he improved one player while he was with us

Bruce was such a poor manager if Smith decides to play any of them again I would be prepared to wipe the slate clean and have a new look are them playing in a proper football system under a better coaching set up

I think we might see a lot more from players even those who have been playing regularly with the new set up
McCormack scored in Australa yesterday but Usain Bolt scored twice in the same game. Let's sign Usain Bolt.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dinas_Caerdydd on October 13, 2018, 01:45:08 AM
on the outside looking in a strange choice considering the size of your club . thought you would have gone with someone who's been there and done it like our neil

just beat swansea next week i,m sure you'll understand

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Axl Rose on October 13, 2018, 03:54:41 AM
Quote from: Dinas_Caerdydd on October 13, 2018, 01:45:08 AM
on the outside looking in a strange choice considering the size of your club . thought you would have gone with someone who's been there and done it like our neil

just beat swansea next week i,m sure you'll understand



I think we've already gone down the 'been there and done it' route, mate. And we didn't go anywhere and didn't do anything, unfortunately.

Smith will do just fine.

Good luck for the rest of the season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on October 13, 2018, 08:06:39 AM
I'm ridiculously excited for Swansea. I wish it was today!

We've got such good attacking players, the idea that we'll see some structure to our method and perhaps some decent football seems too good to be true.

40,000 down Villa and the chance of a new dawn.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rigadon on October 13, 2018, 08:08:03 AM
Quote from: Ads on October 13, 2018, 08:06:39 AM
I'm ridiculously excited for Swansea. I wish it was today!

We've got such good attacking players, the idea that we'll see some structure to our method and perhaps some decent football seems too good to be true.

40,000 down Villa and the chance of a new dawn.

Yep.  And to top it off, the game will be my sons first one.  He will be hooked for life the poor little bugger!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on October 13, 2018, 08:12:13 AM
Quote from: Axl Rose on October 13, 2018, 03:54:41 AM
Quote from: Dinas_Caerdydd on October 13, 2018, 01:45:08 AM
on the outside looking in a strange choice considering the size of your club . thought you would have gone with someone who's been there and done it like our neil

just beat swansea next week i,m sure you'll understand



I think we've already gone down the 'been there and done it' route, mate. And we didn't go anywhere and didn't do anything, unfortunately.

Smith will do just fine.

Good luck for the rest of the season.

Colin is proving that while Jurassic Park football can be effective at getting you up, it's got no hope of keeping you there.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kieron on October 13, 2018, 08:40:37 AM
Quote from: Rigadon on October 13, 2018, 08:08:03 AM
Quote from: Ads on October 13, 2018, 08:06:39 AM
I'm ridiculously excited for Swansea. I wish it was today!

We've got such good attacking players, the idea that we'll see some structure to our method and perhaps some decent football seems too good to be true.

40,000 down Villa and the chance of a new dawn.

Yep.  And to top it off, the game will be my sons first one.  He will be hooked for life the poor little bugger!

Please pass on my sympathies to your son.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clark W Griswold on October 13, 2018, 08:49:24 AM
Lets not get carried away just yet, it'll just lead to disappointment. Just go there with the consideration that you might see a few chinks of light in terms of our attacking play and that we might sneak a win but no guarantees.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on October 13, 2018, 09:23:35 AM
Quote from: Clark W Griswold on October 13, 2018, 08:49:24 AM
Lets not get carried away just yet, it'll just lead to disappointment. Just go there with the consideration that you might see a few chinks of light in terms of our attacking play and that we might sneak a win but no guarantees.

Yep. It's an encouraging and exciting move but he's not going to change things overnight. I'd just be happy with the three points however they come and see what progresses from there.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on October 13, 2018, 09:36:35 AM
Hoping for "some decent football" is getting carried away?

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on October 13, 2018, 09:42:21 AM
of course not, it's a minimum expectation for any fan, but Pearl & Dean are going to need time to create sustainable entertainment
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chap on October 13, 2018, 09:46:11 AM
No,but having to change the two years of dullard football drummed into them by Bruce may take a little time!!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on October 13, 2018, 09:53:07 AM
I know, but I can still look forward to a game and hope and expect better.

Decent football. Not sensational. Just decent, for now. And winning. Especially that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: RichardBatchelor on October 13, 2018, 09:54:13 AM
Quote from: john e on October 12, 2018, 06:07:19 PM
Elphick Hourane Bree Lansbury Hogan Macormac all came to us having played some effective football elsewhere

Bruce didn't get the best out of any of them, I don't think he improved one player while he was with us

Bruce was such a poor manager if Smith decides to play any of them again I would be prepared to wipe the slate clean and have a new look are them playing in a proper football system under a better coaching set up

I think we might see a lot more from players even those who have been playing regularly with the new set up

He did improve Grealish, though clearly more by good man management than any tactical evolution. That’s one thing I’m grateful to Bruce for.

On another tack, why is John Terry called Appleyard? Missed something.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: clash city rocker on October 13, 2018, 10:09:17 AM
Obviously would welcome a great result against Swansea but being realistic would be happy to see some thought put into team selection and style of play. With ticket sales going as they are it just shows there is massive potential there that has been stifled for years. Come on smithy unleash the lion and let it roar so loud that places like the Stu think there is an earthquake happening. Come on you fuckin lions.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rico on October 13, 2018, 10:21:54 AM
Very happy with the appointments so far. I think we must all be patient though. Bruce has left us with a makeshift defence and no decent goalkeeper, so unless the new management team can come up with some new options in defence then i can't see how we can improve in that department until the January transfer window opens up. Obviously playing people in their correct positions will be a start, but for now I'm just happy to be rid of Bruce and his anti - football.

No idea what  Appleyard refers to either.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tomd2103 on October 13, 2018, 10:36:13 AM
Quote from: Rico on October 13, 2018, 10:21:54 AM
Very happy with the appointments so far. I think we must all be patient though. Bruce has left us with a makeshift defence and no decent goalkeeper, so unless the new management team can come up with some new options in defence then i can't see how we can improve in that department until the January transfer window opens up. Obviously playing people in their correct positions will be a start, but for now I'm just happy to be rid of Bruce and his anti - football.

No idea what  Appleyard refers to either.

I think he is going to have to go with the Tuanzebe and Chester partnership at centre half until January.  They need to be given some time to develop a partnership and the chopping and changing needs to stop.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on October 13, 2018, 10:36:30 AM
Quote from: Ads on October 13, 2018, 09:36:35 AM
Hoping for "some decent football" is getting carried away?



Not at all but expecting it after he's been coaching the team for five days might be

It is going to take time to get them playing how he wants

You are right though to be excited about the fact we have a manager who actually has a style of play, something which Bruce clearly did not
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chris Smith on October 13, 2018, 10:51:44 AM
The other thing I am hoping for is to see him giving some of the young players the opportunity to prove themselves.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: clash city rocker on October 13, 2018, 10:54:13 AM
Quote from: Chris Smith on October 13, 2018, 10:51:44 AM
The other thing I am hoping for is to see him giving some of the young players the opportunity to prove themselves.

Agree. Think the youngsters must have thought whatever we do Bruce won't really acknowledge us.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: fredm on October 13, 2018, 11:20:51 AM
I think the team selection for Swansea will be very interesting.  Although no doubt Smith will have some knowledge of our players, JT will have the inside knowledge of them all except McGinn and maybe will have a major input.  Due to them being scattered far and wide this coming week I would imagine Smith will only have Thursday and Friday to work with the squad and he won't be able to instill much change in them in that short space of time.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on October 13, 2018, 11:30:53 AM
true but a near full VP and the new cat bounce factor will hopefully see us through
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on October 13, 2018, 11:35:17 AM
I'm sure he'll keep it all really simple and play them where they should be playing, other than Hutton.  I wouldn't be surprised to see a formation change with the likes of McGinn and Jedinak playing as the holding midfielders with Grealish in front of them.  Bolasie and either Kodjia or El Ghazi right and left and Tammy up top.  We all know that we are both short and weak defensively.  So, I expect him to keep it simple, Hutton stay at left back and Axel and Chester in the centre.  Really looking forward to the rest of the season, I don't think we will go up automatically but I hope that we trouble the play off's and put the Wembley disaster right.  That would be the perfect end to a season that promised so little when Bruce was interviewed in Portugal, to where we are right now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on October 13, 2018, 12:05:00 PM
it will take time to implement his football ideas into the team and also bring in his own type of players

but it won't take time to change the whatever it was Bruce was playing to a more attacking mindset

I'm with Ads I'm looking forward to it and expect a change of emphasis straight away no matter what the result
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on October 13, 2018, 12:16:54 PM
Really wish I was going to be at his first match, reckon it will be a cracking atmosphere.  Instead I will be in New York.  Hoping for better results than last time I was there, when we got dicked 8-0, 4-0 and 3-0.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on October 13, 2018, 12:21:21 PM
Quote from: john e on October 13, 2018, 12:05:00 PM
it will take time to implement his football ideas into the team and also bring in his own type of players

but it won't take time to change the whatever it was Bruce was playing to a more attacking mindset

I'm with Ads I'm looking forward to it and expect a change of emphasis straight away no matter what the result

Agree and what’s most frustrating is that when Bruce sent us out to play in an attacking mindset we looked brilliant. So it’s there, it’s in the squad. We have the players that while we look poor at the back we have ability to outscore any team. I’d like to see Dean come and unlock our creativity.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on October 13, 2018, 12:39:10 PM
Quote from: tomd2103 on October 13, 2018, 10:36:13 AM
Quote from: Rico on October 13, 2018, 10:21:54 AM
Very happy with the appointments so far. I think we must all be patient though. Bruce has left us with a makeshift defence and no decent goalkeeper, so unless the new management team can come up with some new options in defence then i can't see how we can improve in that department until the January transfer window opens up. Obviously playing people in their correct positions will be a start, but for now I'm just happy to be rid of Bruce and his anti - football.

No idea what  Appleyard refers to either.

I think he is going to have to go with the Tuanzebe and Chester partnership at centre half until January.  They need to be given some time to develop a partnership and the chopping and changing needs to stop.

Tuanzebe is useless unfortunately. Going with them at least means we can push higher up the pitch and should keep the ball better. But every team in the division will have a field day launching high balls into our box.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villa Lew on October 13, 2018, 12:54:24 PM
News conference live on Sky Sports News at 4pm on Monday, with Deano, Terry and Purslow.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Monty on October 13, 2018, 12:57:45 PM
I don't expect everything to be perfect instantly, but I'd be very surprised if there weren't a very different feel to the team. Just a change of emphasis onto attacking will get so much more out of these players than Bruce's extremely basic, cautious approach.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on October 13, 2018, 12:59:37 PM
It's an opportunity.

The fan base seems to have rallied. People are excited about the football again, they'll be 40k plus on the gate for a 2nd division game at home to Swansea! If we can get a result, put in a performance too then maybe it might be the start of a bit of a wave to push us to where we want to be.

Hoping for a bounce.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: WarszaVillan on October 13, 2018, 01:11:54 PM
Wait till 2pm next Saturday when you see Jedinak is playing Centre-half ;)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on October 13, 2018, 01:12:30 PM
Small changes, like passing at a higher tempo and pressing higher up the pitch can come a lot quicker than you'd expect, 1-2 training sessions will make a noticable difference.

What will take longer is the movement off the ball to make the most of the space we're creating with the simpler changes.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Monty on October 13, 2018, 01:17:15 PM
Important to remember as well that these players weren't born under Steve Bruce. Yes, they'll have to learn to play a new way as a unit, but they will have individually played in different styles during their careers, so they're not starting from scratch.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on October 13, 2018, 01:40:14 PM
It will feel like a heavy cloud will also have lifted when the players have their first training session. The management and coaching team will bring respect and optimism.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Matt Collins on October 13, 2018, 01:42:33 PM
Quote from: fredm on October 13, 2018, 11:20:51 AM
I think the team selection for Swansea will be very interesting.  Although no doubt Smith will have some knowledge of our players, JT will have the inside knowledge of them all except McGinn and maybe will have a major input.  Due to them being scattered far and wide this coming week I would imagine Smith will only have Thursday and Friday to work with the squad and he won't be able to instill much change in them in that short space of time.

True

I wonder if for both reasons (tiredness and lack of engagement with the internationals) he might put in more players that he's at least had a chance to work with for a week

Nyland

Bree Chester tuanzebe Taylor

Hourihane Lansbury / Whelan  grealish

Adomah / el ghazi Abraham Bolasie

Wouldn't be a major surprise to see someone like O'Hare in the squad as a bit of a statement of intent

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on October 13, 2018, 01:56:01 PM
is O'hare even fit, did he not have a bad injury ?

I remember Terry raving about O'hare,
he picked him out even above Grealish as one to watch for the future when he was asked if anyone had impressed him in the squad

so I wouldn't be surprised either to see him part of the things to come

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on October 13, 2018, 01:56:40 PM
He bagged a hat trick the other night. He seems fine to me
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Matt Collins on October 13, 2018, 02:00:08 PM
I'm cautious about the kids and when I saw O'Hare back end of last season he wasn't great

But he genuinely wowed me in those early cup games last year, as did JDH
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Pete3206 on October 13, 2018, 02:40:27 PM
I'm not expecting much to go much right until we have a transfer window to address the goalie and defence problems. Anything else is a bonus for me.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on October 13, 2018, 03:11:47 PM
For the second time this week Dean Saunders has been shot down by a Talksport colleague whilst trying to defend Steve Bruce. Saunders was saying where we would have been in the table if the penalty against Preston had gone in. This time it was bluenose Ian Danter, who pointed out to him that Bruce was playing players out of position, won one game in ten and had turned on the fans. Also, in the days since Bruce has been sacked Deano has either forgot what he said when Bruce was sacked or his faith in Bruce has actually gone up in recent days. When Bruce was sacked Deano said he should have been given until Christmas. Today he has said he should have been given until the end of the season!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on October 13, 2018, 03:36:21 PM
Quote from: Damo70 on October 13, 2018, 03:11:47 PM
For the second time this week Dean Saunders has been shot down by a Talksport colleague whilst trying to defend Steve Bruce. Saunders was saying where we would have been in the table if the penalty against Preston had gone in. This time it was bluenose Ian Danter, who pointed out to him that Bruce was playing players out of position, won one game in ten and had turned on the fans. Also, in the days since Bruce has been sacked Deano has either forgot what he said when Bruce was sacked or his faith in Bruce has actually gone up in recent days. When Bruce was sacked Deano said he should have been given until Christmas. Today he has said he should have been given until the end of the season!
Yeah I heard that too. What a tool Dean Saunders has been regarding Bruce since his sacking. He's making himself look an idiot with his blatant disregard for the facts just to show support for him. It's the old pals act in full swing. It's a shame as I've always liked Dean Saunders before.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VILLA MOLE on October 13, 2018, 04:11:42 PM
Quote from: Matt Collins on October 13, 2018, 02:00:08 PM
I'm cautious about the kids and when I saw O'Hare back end of last season he wasn't great

But he genuinely wowed me in those early cup games last year, as did JDH


we will never know unless we try them and I think he will try them
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave shelley on October 13, 2018, 04:15:20 PM
I'm not 100% sure but something in the back of my mind makes me think that they are neighbours in the Cheshire area.  If so, Saunders won't let the truth stop his defence of Bruce.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on October 13, 2018, 04:26:14 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on October 13, 2018, 01:56:40 PM
He bagged a hat trick the other night. He seems fine to me

not bad if he has a serious injury then,  imagine how many he'l get when he's proper fit 🙂
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OCD on October 13, 2018, 05:21:53 PM
Could just be that Saunders is having empathy for another manager knowing what it's like to be in that position.

Is Chester back or is he still suspended?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Matt Collins on October 13, 2018, 05:27:21 PM
Chester is back
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OCD on October 13, 2018, 05:31:26 PM
That's good, I thought he had a 3-game ban.

Bruce was never going to work with these new owners who seem keen to promote youth. The likes of O'Hare, JDH, Hepburn-Murphy may all fare better. He might want to recall Clark and Green in January too (I think season long loans have a recall option in January).
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on October 13, 2018, 06:12:56 PM
To be fair, whilst Deano was a great striker he's been a crap manager everywhere he's been so I think we can politely ignore his opinion when it comes to managerial ability.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 13, 2018, 06:52:21 PM
He’s bloody dreadful as a co-commentator too.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 13, 2018, 06:57:27 PM
In the Metro the other day he was asked about us after we'd sacked Bruce and he said "we'd be there or thereabouts".
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Bad English on October 13, 2018, 07:11:21 PM
Quote from: Risso on October 13, 2018, 12:16:54 PM
Really wish I was going to be at his first match, reckon it will be a cracking atmosphere.  Instead I will be in New York.  Hoping for better results than last time I was there, when we got dicked 8-0, 4-0 and 3-0.
I will be in Lisbon so will not be able to attend. The last time I was in New York we beat the Kit Stealers 2-1.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: BC Villain on October 13, 2018, 07:11:59 PM
Quote from: Damo70 on October 13, 2018, 03:11:47 PM
For the second time this week Dean Saunders has been shot down by a Talksport colleague whilst trying to defend Steve Bruce. Saunders was saying where we would have been in the table if the penalty against Preston had gone in. This time it was bluenose Ian Danter, who pointed out to him that Bruce was playing players out of position, won one game in ten and had turned on the fans. Also, in the days since Bruce has been sacked Deano has either forgot what he said when Bruce was sacked or his faith in Bruce has actually gone up in recent days. When Bruce was sacked Deano said he should have been given until Christmas. Today he has said he should have been given until the end of the season!

The same Dean Saunders who -when we appointed Bruce - that he had no plan B and that we needed to move on from this "dinosaur management".
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Tuscans on October 13, 2018, 08:06:54 PM
Quote from: Damo70 on October 13, 2018, 03:11:47 PM
For the second time this week Dean Saunders has been shot down by a Talksport colleague whilst trying to defend Steve Bruce. Saunders was saying where we would have been in the table if the penalty against Preston had gone in. This time it was bluenose Ian Danter, who pointed out to him that Bruce was playing players out of position, won one game in ten and had turned on the fans. Also, in the days since Bruce has been sacked Deano has either forgot what he said when Bruce was sacked or his faith in Bruce has actually gone up in recent days. When Bruce was sacked Deano said he should have been given until Christmas. Today he has said he should have been given until the end of the season!
Heard Deano earlier and he said the same in the week just after Bruce got the chop. I love Deano but boy does he love answering his own questions before anyone else is allowed a go.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Tuscans on October 13, 2018, 08:14:17 PM
There's a little Villa podcast on youtube that some might of watched/ heard. Has a bloke from Soccer AM on there who's a Brentford fan giving some views and opinions on Dean Smith, quite interesting.

&feature=youtu.be
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Jon Crofts on October 13, 2018, 09:29:51 PM
Just found out Dean Smith is a fan of U2.

Smith out.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Londonvilla on October 13, 2018, 09:39:09 PM
Quote from: Tuscans on October 13, 2018, 08:14:17 PM
There's a little Villa podcast on youtube that some might of watched/ heard. Has a bloke from Soccer AM on there who's a Brentford fan giving some views and opinions on Dean Smith, quite interesting.

&feature=youtu.be

A bit too much Brentford but.......... I know a lot more about our new manager after watching it
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on October 13, 2018, 09:40:41 PM
Quote from: Jon Crofts on October 13, 2018, 09:29:51 PM
Just found out Dean Smith is a fan of U2.

Smith out.

I think you're confusing him with Chris Smith.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dante Lavelli on October 13, 2018, 09:57:18 PM
Thanks Tuscans.  Exciting times.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ktvillan on October 13, 2018, 10:23:28 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if the Swansea game is something of an anti-climax.  I would just hope to see signs we are going to be playing on the front foot,  at a quicker tempo, getting it forward faster, committing players forward, and a fair bit of movement off the ball.  That would be a good start. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on October 13, 2018, 10:29:48 PM
Quote from: BC Villain on October 13, 2018, 07:11:59 PM
Quote from: Damo70 on October 13, 2018, 03:11:47 PM
For the second time this week Dean Saunders has been shot down by a Talksport colleague whilst trying to defend Steve Bruce. Saunders was saying where we would have been in the table if the penalty against Preston had gone in. This time it was bluenose Ian Danter, who pointed out to him that Bruce was playing players out of position, won one game in ten and had turned on the fans. Also, in the days since Bruce has been sacked Deano has either forgot what he said when Bruce was sacked or his faith in Bruce has actually gone up in recent days. When Bruce was sacked Deano said he should have been given until Christmas. Today he has said he should have been given until the end of the season!

The same Dean Saunders who -when we appointed Bruce - that he had no plan B and that we needed to move on from this "dinosaur management".
Loved him when he played with us but he really is a bit thick. Not sure why a radio station would give him any airtime?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chinchilla Bathhouse on October 13, 2018, 10:39:03 PM
Quote from: olaftab on October 13, 2018, 10:29:48 PM
Quote from: BC Villain on October 13, 2018, 07:11:59 PM
Quote from: Damo70 on October 13, 2018, 03:11:47 PM
For the second time this week Dean Saunders has been shot down by a Talksport colleague whilst trying to defend Steve Bruce. Saunders was saying where we would have been in the table if the penalty against Preston had gone in. This time it was bluenose Ian Danter, who pointed out to him that Bruce was playing players out of position, won one game in ten and had turned on the fans. Also, in the days since Bruce has been sacked Deano has either forgot what he said when Bruce was sacked or his faith in Bruce has actually gone up in recent days. When Bruce was sacked Deano said he should have been given until Christmas. Today he has said he should have been given until the end of the season!

The same Dean Saunders who -when we appointed Bruce - that he had no plan B and that we needed to move on from this "dinosaur management".
Loved him when he played with us but he really is a bit thick. Not sure why a radio station would give him any airtime?

Because if TalkSport stopped using thick ex-footballers they wouldn't have any staff.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: walsall villain on October 13, 2018, 10:49:01 PM
Quote from: Chinchilla Bathhouse on October 13, 2018, 10:39:03 PM
Quote from: olaftab on October 13, 2018, 10:29:48 PM
Quote from: BC Villain on October 13, 2018, 07:11:59 PM
Quote from: Damo70 on October 13, 2018, 03:11:47 PM
For the second time this week Dean Saunders has been shot down by a Talksport colleague whilst trying to defend Steve Bruce. Saunders was saying where we would have been in the table if the penalty against Preston had gone in. This time it was bluenose Ian Danter, who pointed out to him that Bruce was playing players out of position, won one game in ten and had turned on the fans. Also, in the days since Bruce has been sacked Deano has either forgot what he said when Bruce was sacked or his faith in Bruce has actually gone up in recent days. When Bruce was sacked Deano said he should have been given until Christmas. Today he has said he should have been given until the end of the season!

The same Dean Saunders who -when we appointed Bruce - that he had no plan B and that we needed to move on from this "dinosaur management".
Loved him when he played with us but he really is a bit thick. Not sure why a radio station would give him any airtime?

Because if TalkSport stopped using thick ex-footballers they wouldn't have any staff.
Stereotyping I know but I wouldn’t expect ex players to be very tuned in to politics but you’d expect them to have a grasp on football tactics and coaching. Many don’t. This is why the vast majority leave football when they finish playing.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AV82EC on October 13, 2018, 10:55:50 PM
I think it’s starting to change though the influx of foreign managers is starting to change attitudes and knowledge of the game in this country which for too long was an isolated little island which thought it had nothing to learn from the rest of the world. You had the odd player or manager who went abroad but they were viewed suspiciously. Whatbreally needs to change is Managers/coaches going and doing it in much larger numbers.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chris Smith on October 13, 2018, 11:30:17 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on October 13, 2018, 09:40:41 PM
Quote from: Jon Crofts on October 13, 2018, 09:29:51 PM
Just found out Dean Smith is a fan of U2.

Smith out.


I think you're confusing him with Chris Smith.

Outside, now!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villan from luton on October 14, 2018, 12:34:58 AM
Boys and girls, it is changing. We have got a proper lad in charge who loves our club. Furthermore he wants his team to play good football.

Team next week;
 
John Burridge

Bree Axel Chester Taylor
       Mcginn
Bolasie  Jack Hourihane El-Ghazi/kodjia

Tammy
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mcgrath_85 on October 14, 2018, 02:55:03 AM
Let’s be having yah! Onwards and bloody upwards! Villa till we die! Pissed.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on October 14, 2018, 06:19:09 AM
Quote from: Chinchilla Bathhouse on October 13, 2018, 10:39:03 PM
Quote from: olaftab on October 13, 2018, 10:29:48 PM
Quote from: BC Villain on October 13, 2018, 07:11:59 PM
Quote from: Damo70 on October 13, 2018, 03:11:47 PM
For the second time this week Dean Saunders has been shot down by a Talksport colleague whilst trying to defend Steve Bruce. Saunders was saying where we would have been in the table if the penalty against Preston had gone in. This time it was bluenose Ian Danter, who pointed out to him that Bruce was playing players out of position, won one game in ten and had turned on the fans. Also, in the days since Bruce has been sacked Deano has either forgot what he said when Bruce was sacked or his faith in Bruce has actually gone up in recent days. When Bruce was sacked Deano said he should have been given until Christmas. Today he has said he should have been given until the end of the season!

The same Dean Saunders who -when we appointed Bruce - that he had no plan B and that we needed to move on from this "dinosaur management".
Loved him when he played with us but he really is a bit thick. Not sure why a radio station would give him any airtime?

Because if TalkSport stopped using thick ex-footballers they wouldn't have any staff.
The collective IQ of its audience is another factor.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: alftitimus on October 14, 2018, 07:16:52 AM
Welcome Home Dean   :D

I figure .... .that over the coming months you will change THIS SODDEN CULTURE that we.ve had under Steve.

Let's utilise Jack... rather than picking spots to get fouled at, where Steve practised his 'set-pieces'..Jack is better used than that, surely.

And I won't be myself   ;D... if I don't mention ONE CONCERN
DIVING ! At Brentford and Walsall you had a Rep for "diving" players. More Yellow and Red cards against opponents  then any other clubs.

Just telling you Dean... that won't work at Us !

We know that Jack had to endure and invite the tackles that led to Steve's brainwave set-pieces. But NO MORE ! Let him loose ! !

AND... you are at US now.... No more cheating and Diving.

I welcome you, and will be watching your culture. You are with the Big Boys now....

 :)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on October 14, 2018, 08:18:59 AM
You’re an idiot.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villabear on October 14, 2018, 08:31:11 AM
Quote from: alftitimus on October 14, 2018, 07:16:52 AM
Welcome Home Dean   :D

I figure .... .that over the coming months you will change THIS SODDEN CULTURE that we.ve had under Steve.

Let's utilise Jack... rather than picking spots to get fouled at, where Steve practised his 'set-pieces'..Jack is better used than that, surely.

And I won't be myself   ;D... if I don't mention ONE CONCERN
DIVING ! At Brentford and Walsall you had a Rep for "diving" players. More Yellow and Red cards against opponents  then any other clubs.

Just telling you Dean... that won't work at Us !

We know that Jack had to endure and invite the tackles that led to Steve's brainwave set-pieces. But NO MORE ! Let him loose ! !

AND... you are at US now.... No more cheating and Diving.

I welcome you, and will be watching your culture. You are with the Big Boys now....

 :)

Nurse!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: thick_mike on October 14, 2018, 08:46:40 AM
Quote from: alftitimus on October 14, 2018, 07:16:52 AM
Welcome Home Dean   :D

I figure .... .that over the coming months you will change THIS SODDEN CULTURE that we.ve had under Steve.

Let's utilise Jack... rather than picking spots to get fouled at, where Steve practised his 'set-pieces'..Jack is better used than that, surely.

And I won't be myself   ;D... if I don't mention ONE CONCERN
DIVING ! At Brentford and Walsall you had a Rep for "diving" players. More Yellow and Red cards against opponents  then any other clubs.

Just telling you Dean... that won't work at Us !

We know that Jack had to endure and invite the tackles that led to Steve's brainwave set-pieces. But NO MORE ! Let him loose ! !

AND... you are at US now.... No more cheating and Diving.

I welcome you, and will be watching your culture. You are with the Big Boys now....

 :)


I love the phrase, “THIS SODDEN CULTURE”. Sounds like a lost album by The Fall
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on October 14, 2018, 09:31:58 AM
Alf to consulting room five...
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on October 14, 2018, 09:34:39 AM
Quote from: alftitimus on October 14, 2018, 07:16:52 AM
Welcome Home Dean   :D

I figure .... .that over the coming months you will change THIS SODDEN CULTURE that we.ve had under Steve.

Let's utilise Jack... rather than picking spots to get fouled at, where Steve practised his 'set-pieces'..Jack is better used than that, surely.

And I won't be myself   ;D... if I don't mention ONE CONCERN
DIVING ! At Brentford and Walsall you had a Rep for "diving" players. More Yellow and Red cards against opponents  then any other clubs.

Just telling you Dean... that won't work at Us !

We know that Jack had to endure and invite the tackles that led to Steve's brainwave set-pieces. But NO MORE ! Let him loose ! !

AND... you are at US now.... No more cheating and Diving.

I welcome you, and will be watching your culture. You are with the Big Boys now....

 :)


"...£100,000 in used notes, underneath the spaghetti junction. COME ALONE, or he gets it"
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Des Little on October 14, 2018, 09:36:19 AM
Someone is still pissed from last night
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: clash city rocker on October 14, 2018, 09:38:32 AM
Quote from: mr underhill on October 14, 2018, 09:31:58 AM
Alf to consulting room five...

Now that made me chuckle.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Hookeysmith on October 14, 2018, 09:46:14 AM
As an aside I would imagine most of us through our youth have wondered what it would be like to play for "our" Villa and to score a goal at the Holte end. That experience would stay with you for a lifetime.

Now fast forward to Saturday when Dean walks out that tunnel to take his place in the dug out. Nearly 40k of his own welcoming him to manage the team he loves.

What would any of us give for That moment?

I really hope we can get that first win for him
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VILLA MOLE on October 14, 2018, 10:01:15 AM
Quote from: alftitimus on October 14, 2018, 07:16:52 AM
Welcome Home Dean   :D

I figure .... .that over the coming months you will change THIS SODDEN CULTURE that we.ve had under Steve.

Let's utilise Jack... rather than picking spots to get fouled at, where Steve practised his 'set-pieces'..Jack is better used than that, surely.

And I won't be myself   ;D... if I don't mention ONE CONCERN
DIVING ! At Brentford and Walsall you had a Rep for "diving" players. More Yellow and Red cards against opponents  then any other clubs.

Just telling you Dean... that won't work at Us !

We know that Jack had to endure and invite the tackles that led to Steve's brainwave set-pieces. But NO MORE ! Let him loose ! !

AND... you are at US now.... No more cheating and Diving.

I welcome you, and will be watching your culture. You are with the Big Boys now....

 :)





well this a new angle of concern I hadn't thought of ……….thanks
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Monty on October 14, 2018, 10:12:52 AM
Quote from: alftitimus on October 14, 2018, 07:16:52 AM
Welcome Home Dean   :D

I figure .... .that over the coming months you will change THIS SODDEN CULTURE that we.ve had under Steve.

Let's utilise Jack... rather than picking spots to get fouled at, where Steve practised his 'set-pieces'..Jack is better used than that, surely.

And I won't be myself   ;D... if I don't mention ONE CONCERN
DIVING ! At Brentford and Walsall you had a Rep for "diving" players. More Yellow and Red cards against opponents  then any other clubs.

Just telling you Dean... that won't work at Us !

We know that Jack had to endure and invite the tackles that led to Steve's brainwave set-pieces. But NO MORE ! Let him loose ! !

AND... you are at US now.... No more cheating and Diving.

I welcome you, and will be watching your culture. You are with the Big Boys now....

 :)


I too enjoy a pint of wine at *squints* quarter past seven in the morning.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on October 14, 2018, 10:23:46 AM
The sheer eloquence of "you are at US now" just leaps gracefully from the screen.

The added gravitas of it being in bold stirs the heart, it really does.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on October 14, 2018, 10:25:13 AM
The capital 'D' on diving, when cheating was afforded no such honour, really adds to the overall post as well.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on October 14, 2018, 10:25:22 AM
If it were underlined and maybe each letter made out of individually cut headlines from different news papers and magazines, then it would be a masterpiece.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Bad English on October 14, 2018, 10:46:11 AM
I think you should all quote it ad infinitum.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on October 14, 2018, 11:22:08 AM
Quote from: Ads on October 14, 2018, 10:25:22 AM
If it were underlined and maybe each letter made out of individually cut headlines from different news papers and magazines, then it would be a masterpiece.

Made me chuckle! Nice one Ads.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on October 14, 2018, 11:31:43 AM
I think he’s right and you are all condoning cheating, you rotters.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on October 14, 2018, 11:41:44 AM
Quote from: PeterWithe on October 14, 2018, 11:31:43 AM
I think he’s right and you are all condoning cheating, you rotters.

Not really condoning it if they keep getting red and yellow cards for their, er, going to ground without being touched too roughly.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on October 14, 2018, 11:50:09 AM
Quote from: Jon Crofts on October 13, 2018, 09:29:51 PM
Just found out Dean Smith is a fan of U2.

Smith out.
Oi!!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on October 14, 2018, 12:10:03 PM
Quote from: villabear on October 14, 2018, 08:31:11 AM
Quote from: alftitimus on October 14, 2018, 07:16:52 AM
Welcome Home Dean   :D

I figure .... .that over the coming months you will change THIS SODDEN CULTURE that we.ve had under Steve.

Let's utilise Jack... rather than picking spots to get fouled at, where Steve practised his 'set-pieces'..Jack is better used than that, surely.

And I won't be myself   ;D... if I don't mention ONE CONCERN
DIVING ! At Brentford and Walsall you had a Rep for "diving" players. More Yellow and Red cards against opponents  then any other clubs.

Just telling you Dean... that won't work at Us !

We know that Jack had to endure and invite the tackles that led to Steve's brainwave set-pieces. But NO MORE ! Let him loose ! !

AND... you are at US now.... No more cheating and Diving.

I welcome you, and will be watching your culture. You are with the Big Boys now....

 :)

Nurse!
All you lot taking the piss have had it when he wakes/sobers up later.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villafirst on October 14, 2018, 02:03:54 PM
I see the press conference with Dean Smith, JT & Purslow is live on Sky Sports News tomorrow at 4.00pm. Should be interesting - not many Championship clubs have that sort of coverage....Villa's profile has definitely been raised by these appointments!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 14, 2018, 02:14:22 PM
Our profile is already massive. 90% of our games get dicked around with for the telly as we are so annoyingly fucking Box Office.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villafirst on October 14, 2018, 02:35:45 PM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on October 14, 2018, 02:14:22 PM
Our profile is already massive. 90% of our games get dicked around with for the telly as we are so annoyingly fucking Box Office.

A Box Office horror show under Bruce!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: DPA on October 14, 2018, 03:45:28 PM
https://twitter.com/davidanderson_1/status/1051027246109118466?s=21 Worth a read on Dean Smith Villa fans, from a Brentford fan in peace.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on October 14, 2018, 03:46:10 PM
Quote from: Tuscans on October 13, 2018, 08:14:17 PM
There's a little Villa podcast on youtube that some might of watched/ heard. Has a bloke from Soccer AM on there who's a Brentford fan giving some views and opinions on Dean Smith, quite interesting.

&feature=youtu.be
I listened to this the other day.  You can tell the Brentford fan just loves Smith and he sounds genuinely excited to see what he can do with our squad.  After listening to I feel really positive about this appointment
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on October 14, 2018, 04:20:53 PM
There hasn’t been this level of genuine enthusiasm for a managerial appointment since 2006 and Martin O’Neill. Now we have a man who genuinely loves the club and above all that a very good man and manager. Excited to see what he is able to do.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on October 14, 2018, 04:30:14 PM
He will do us well.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: clash city rocker on October 14, 2018, 04:33:02 PM
Quote from: brian green on October 14, 2018, 04:30:14 PM
He will do us well.

For him...for us.. for the club...I really hope it works out well.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VillaAlways on October 14, 2018, 04:46:10 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on October 14, 2018, 03:46:10 PM
Quote from: Tuscans on October 13, 2018, 08:14:17 PM
There's a little Villa podcast on youtube that some might of watched/ heard. Has a bloke from Soccer AM on there who's a Brentford fan giving some views and opinions on Dean Smith, quite interesting.

&feature=youtu.be
I listened to this the other day.  You can tell the Brentford fan just loves Smith and he sounds genuinely excited to see what he can do with our squad.  After listening to I feel really positive about this appointment

Really enjoyed that. Thanks for posting
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on October 14, 2018, 04:58:47 PM
Quote from: alftitimus on October 14, 2018, 07:16:52 AM
Welcome Home Dean   :D

I figure .... .that over the coming months you will change THIS SODDEN CULTURE that we.ve had under Steve.

Let's utilise Jack... rather than picking spots to get fouled at, where Steve practised his 'set-pieces'..Jack is better used than that, surely.

And I won't be myself   ;D... if I don't mention ONE CONCERN
DIVING ! At Brentford and Walsall you had a Rep for "diving" players. More Yellow and Red cards against opponents  then any other clubs.

Just telling you Dean... that won't work at Us !

We know that Jack had to endure and invite the tackles that led to Steve's brainwave set-pieces. But NO MORE ! Let him loose ! !

AND... you are at US now.... No more cheating and Diving.

I welcome you, and will be watching your culture. You are with the Big Boys now....

 :)

Wow...I Hope you wouldn't mind if I "BORROWED" a phrase or Two from this?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on October 14, 2018, 05:00:52 PM
Quote from: DPA on October 14, 2018, 03:45:28 PM
https://twitter.com/davidanderson_1/status/1051027246109118466?s=21 Worth a read on Dean Smith Villa fans, from a Brentford fan in peace.

It lost me before I got to read about Dean Smith nearly. So utterly ignorant pish about us and Bruce.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on October 14, 2018, 05:11:49 PM
Quote from: DPA on October 14, 2018, 03:45:28 PM
https://twitter.com/davidanderson_1/status/1051027246109118466?s=21 Worth a read on Dean Smith Villa fans, from a Brentford fan in peace.
I have to agree with criticism of our strategy to replace Bruce. From considering Marquee names like Henry to heavyweights like Rodgers and ending up with salt of the earth smith does seem a bit strange.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Monty on October 14, 2018, 05:14:46 PM
Quote from: olaftab on October 14, 2018, 05:11:49 PM
Quote from: DPA on October 14, 2018, 03:45:28 PM
https://twitter.com/davidanderson_1/status/1051027246109118466?s=21 Worth a read on Dean Smith Villa fans, from a Brentford fan in peace.
I have to agree with criticism of our strategy to replace Bruce. From considering Marquee names like Henry to heavyweights like Rodgers and ending up with salt of the earth smith does seem a bit strange.

Alternatively they looked for a manager who'll play a certain type of football and looked everywhere for him? Who gives a shit about the heaviness of the name, there was consistency in what they wanted. Has this guy forgotten the 'Martinez, no, McLeish' summer?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on October 14, 2018, 05:16:51 PM
However we had no evidence on type of football Henry would play.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Monty on October 14, 2018, 05:18:32 PM
Quote from: olaftab on October 14, 2018, 05:16:51 PM
However we had no evidence on type of football Henry would play.

Something tells me it won't be two banks of four and long balls. Just a hunch.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on October 14, 2018, 05:24:59 PM
Two things strike me about Brentford. 1) the idea that Smith was somehow underachieving with their squad, constantly picked clean and reinvented when they're a financial minnow in a league of sharks, and (2) the almost complacent adulation for "the system".

With regards to the latter it seems Smith was almost inconsequential given the all powerful "system". Never quite reconciling why Smith needed to turn up mid-way through a season following a Head Coach failing, seemingly despite "the system".

Maybe he's a bit better and played a significant role than they like to admit.

I agree with you Monty. We wanted a Head Coach who could play attacking football and work with a new DoF.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy65 on October 14, 2018, 05:31:57 PM
Quote from: VillaAlways on October 14, 2018, 04:46:10 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on October 14, 2018, 03:46:10 PM
Quote from: Tuscans on October 13, 2018, 08:14:17 PM
There's a little Villa podcast on youtube that some might of watched/ heard. Has a bloke from Soccer AM on there who's a Brentford fan giving some views and opinions on Dean Smith, quite interesting.

&feature=youtu.be
I listened to this the other day.  You can tell the Brentford fan just loves Smith and he sounds genuinely excited to see what he can do with our squad.  After listening to I feel really positive about this appointment

Really enjoyed that. Thanks for posting

Me too. Wasn’t sure about Smith at all in the summer but Seeing this gives me some real hope we have got the right man for change
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: clash city rocker on October 14, 2018, 05:40:42 PM
He can't change us overnight but if he can change us over weeks and months then that will do for me.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dante Lavelli on October 14, 2018, 06:06:14 PM
Quote from: olaftab on October 14, 2018, 05:11:49 PM
Quote from: DPA on October 14, 2018, 03:45:28 PM
https://twitter.com/davidanderson_1/status/1051027246109118466?s=21 Worth a read on Dean Smith Villa fans, from a Brentford fan in peace.
I have to agree with criticism of our strategy to replace Bruce. From considering Marquee names like Henry to heavyweights like Rodgers and ending up with salt of the earth smith does seem a bit strange.

The article does raise some good points.  However thinking about it, there was consistency in our approach because all people targeted (if the speculation was correct) were coaches first and foremost, even Brendan.

He also asked what has changed from the summer to now, well if a coach based strategy was being prioritised then a DoF or a "system" to fit into is necessary.  That takes time to build and now we now have people in the right places for that to happen. 

None of the above guarantees success and I agree that we have been a basket case for too long, but with a fair wind, what the new owners have built in a short space of time is pretty decent (and about ten years too late).
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT Villan on October 14, 2018, 06:57:39 PM
Quote from: DPA on October 14, 2018, 03:45:28 PM
https://twitter.com/davidanderson_1/status/1051027246109118466?s=21 Worth a read on Dean Smith Villa fans, from a Brentford fan in peace.

Sorry, but I also gave up before reaching the Dean Smith section. The Bruce discourse was so inaccurate that it debases the entire article.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KRS on October 14, 2018, 07:12:05 PM
If our new owners hadn't taken time to consider alternative options then they would have been rightly criticised, so criticising them for going about it the right way by approaching a short list of identified management options rather than the same old same old has beens (which are pretty much the only ones who would offer a "consistent" style of football) is futile. You can't have it both ways, and it only came across as a mess because that's how it was played out in and by the media to fill their column inches.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on October 14, 2018, 08:28:20 PM
Quote from: Ads on October 14, 2018, 05:00:52 PM
Quote from: DPA on October 14, 2018, 03:45:28 PM
https://twitter.com/davidanderson_1/status/1051027246109118466?s=21 Worth a read on Dean Smith Villa fans, from a Brentford fan in peace.

It lost me before I got to read about Dean Smith nearly. So utterly ignorant pish about us and Bruce.
Yep, me too. Utter nonsense. Why write about a subject if you have no actual idea?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on October 14, 2018, 08:36:51 PM
Quote from: Ian J on October 14, 2018, 08:28:20 PM
Quote from: Ads on October 14, 2018, 05:00:52 PM
Quote from: DPA on October 14, 2018, 03:45:28 PM
https://twitter.com/davidanderson_1/status/1051027246109118466?s=21 Worth a read on Dean Smith Villa fans, from a Brentford fan in peace.

It lost me before I got to read about Dean Smith nearly. So utterly ignorant pish about us and Bruce.
Yep, me too. Utter nonsense. Why write about a subject if you have no actual idea?

Are you new to the internet mate?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy65 on October 14, 2018, 08:40:21 PM
Quote from: VillaAlways on October 14, 2018, 04:46:10 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on October 14, 2018, 03:46:10 PM
Quote from: Tuscans on October 13, 2018, 08:14:17 PM
There's a little Villa podcast on youtube that some might of watched/ heard. Has a bloke from Soccer AM on there who's a Brentford fan giving some views and opinions on Dean Smith, quite interesting.

&feature=youtu.be
I listened to this the other day.  You can tell the Brentford fan just loves Smith and he sounds genuinely excited to see what he can do with our squad.  After listening to I feel really positive about this appointment

Really enjoyed that. Thanks for posting

About 90 mins of interviews with John Gregory on that site as well. Recommended
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on October 14, 2018, 08:55:36 PM
Quote from: LeeB on October 14, 2018, 08:36:51 PM
Quote from: Ian J on October 14, 2018, 08:28:20 PM
Quote from: Ads on October 14, 2018, 05:00:52 PM
Quote from: DPA on October 14, 2018, 03:45:28 PM
https://twitter.com/davidanderson_1/status/1051027246109118466?s=21 Worth a read on Dean Smith Villa fans, from a Brentford fan in peace.

It lost me before I got to read about Dean Smith nearly. So utterly ignorant pish about us and Bruce.
Yep, me too. Utter nonsense. Why write about a subject if you have no actual idea?

Are you new to the internet mate?
Well my colleague at work now believes the earth is flat. Actually, he really does believes it. Fucking numpty.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VILLA MOLE on October 14, 2018, 09:59:15 PM
Quote from: Ian J on October 14, 2018, 08:55:36 PM
Quote from: LeeB on October 14, 2018, 08:36:51 PM
Quote from: Ian J on October 14, 2018, 08:28:20 PM
Quote from: Ads on October 14, 2018, 05:00:52 PM
Quote from: DPA on October 14, 2018, 03:45:28 PM
https://twitter.com/davidanderson_1/status/1051027246109118466?s=21 Worth a read on Dean Smith Villa fans, from a Brentford fan in peace.

It lost me before I got to read about Dean Smith nearly. So utterly ignorant pish about us and Bruce.
Yep, me too. Utter nonsense. Why write about a subject if you have no actual idea?

Are you new to the internet mate?
Well my colleague at work now believes the earth is flat. Actually, he really does believes it. Fucking numpty.

so where does he/she think we would all off then ???
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on October 14, 2018, 10:10:20 PM
Quote from: VILLA MOLE on October 14, 2018, 09:59:15 PM
Quote from: Ian J on October 14, 2018, 08:55:36 PM
Quote from: LeeB on October 14, 2018, 08:36:51 PM
Quote from: Ian J on October 14, 2018, 08:28:20 PM
Quote from: Ads on October 14, 2018, 05:00:52 PM
Quote from: DPA on October 14, 2018, 03:45:28 PM
https://twitter.com/davidanderson_1/status/1051027246109118466?s=21 Worth a read on Dean Smith Villa fans, from a Brentford fan in peace.

It lost me before I got to read about Dean Smith nearly. So utterly ignorant pish about us and Bruce.
Yep, me too. Utter nonsense. Why write about a subject if you have no actual idea?

Are you new to the internet mate?
Well my colleague at work now believes the earth is flat. Actually, he really does believes it. Fucking numpty.

so where does he/she think we would all off then ???
Ha ha! I'll ask him, I'm sure he's found the answer somewhere on Facebook.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OCD on October 14, 2018, 10:19:49 PM
Listening to that Podcast, what comes to my mind is how much Smith sounds like Graham Taylor in terms of personality and style of play.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Monty on October 14, 2018, 10:40:49 PM
Quote from: OCD on October 14, 2018, 10:19:49 PM
Listening to that Podcast, what comes to my mind is how much Smith sounds like Graham Taylor in terms of personality and style of play.

Personality for sure, but I'm not sure 'don't expect crosses' sounds much like SGT's style of play.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on October 14, 2018, 11:09:54 PM
Quote from: olaftab on October 14, 2018, 05:11:49 PM
Quote from: DPA on October 14, 2018, 03:45:28 PM
https://twitter.com/davidanderson_1/status/1051027246109118466?s=21 Worth a read on Dean Smith Villa fans, from a Brentford fan in peace.
I have to agree with criticism of our strategy to replace Bruce. From considering Marquee names like Henry to heavyweights like Rodgers and ending up with salt of the earth smith does seem a bit strange.

And yet all options included John Terry harpooned in. Really hasn't been a good start from the new regime at Villa Park.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VILLA MOLE on October 14, 2018, 11:14:33 PM
Quote from: brontebilly on October 14, 2018, 11:09:54 PM
Quote from: olaftab on October 14, 2018, 05:11:49 PM
Quote from: DPA on October 14, 2018, 03:45:28 PM
https://twitter.com/davidanderson_1/status/1051027246109118466?s=21 Worth a read on Dean Smith Villa fans, from a Brentford fan in peace.
I have to agree with criticism of our strategy to replace Bruce. From considering Marquee names like Henry to heavyweights like Rodgers and ending up with salt of the earth smith does seem a bit strange.

And yet all options included John Terry harpooned in. Really hasn't been a good start from the new regime at Villa Park.


oh I don't know saving us from going bust was a good start .  Smith has a track record at this level and is an up and coming manager and now has a Marquee assistant learning his trade ,  I am quite excited
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on October 14, 2018, 11:14:39 PM
Quote from: Monty on October 14, 2018, 10:40:49 PM
Quote from: OCD on October 14, 2018, 10:19:49 PM
Listening to that Podcast, what comes to my mind is how much Smith sounds like Graham Taylor in terms of personality and style of play.

Personality for sure, but I'm not sure 'don't expect crosses' sounds much like SGT's style of play.
Main thing is that Smith must stick to his belief and does not compromise either for owners or fans or after a visit to a coaching seminar in Munich/Madrid/Barcelona etc.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 14, 2018, 11:22:03 PM
Quote from: brontebilly on October 14, 2018, 11:09:54 PM
Quote from: olaftab on October 14, 2018, 05:11:49 PM
Quote from: DPA on October 14, 2018, 03:45:28 PM
https://twitter.com/davidanderson_1/status/1051027246109118466?s=21 Worth a read on Dean Smith Villa fans, from a Brentford fan in peace.
I have to agree with criticism of our strategy to replace Bruce. From considering Marquee names like Henry to heavyweights like Rodgers and ending up with salt of the earth smith does seem a bit strange.

And yet all options included John Terry harpooned in. Really hasn't been a good start from the new regime at Villa Park.

Yeah apart from stopping us going bust, bringing in players the envy of the division, looking we are finally set up like a modern day football club and bringing in a manager most fans are pleased with, what have they done for us the chancers!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VillaAlways on October 14, 2018, 11:34:45 PM
Quote from: brontebilly on October 14, 2018, 11:09:54 PM
Quote from: olaftab on October 14, 2018, 05:11:49 PM
Quote from: DPA on October 14, 2018, 03:45:28 PM
https://twitter.com/davidanderson_1/status/1051027246109118466?s=21 Worth a read on Dean Smith Villa fans, from a Brentford fan in peace.
I have to agree with criticism of our strategy to replace Bruce. From considering Marquee names like Henry to heavyweights like Rodgers and ending up with salt of the earth smith does seem a bit strange.

And yet all options included John Terry harpooned in. Really hasn't been a good start from the new regime at Villa Park.
Not sure if serious.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dante Lavelli on October 14, 2018, 11:48:49 PM
Quote from: olaftab on October 14, 2018, 11:14:39 PM
Quote from: Monty on October 14, 2018, 10:40:49 PM
Quote from: OCD on October 14, 2018, 10:19:49 PM
Listening to that Podcast, what comes to my mind is how much Smith sounds like Graham Taylor in terms of personality and style of play.

Personality for sure, but I'm not sure 'don't expect crosses' sounds much like SGT's style of play.
Main thing is that Smith must stick to his belief and does not compromise either for owners or fans or after a visit to a coaching seminar in Munich/Madrid/Barcelona etc.

That horse has bolted.  He's demonstrated (and one of the reasons for being appointed at brentford) was his willingness to implement plans/tactics that were dictated by overloads above him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on October 14, 2018, 11:58:07 PM
Quote from: brontebilly on October 14, 2018, 11:09:54 PM
Quote from: olaftab on October 14, 2018, 05:11:49 PM
Quote from: DPA on October 14, 2018, 03:45:28 PM
https://twitter.com/davidanderson_1/status/1051027246109118466?s=21 Worth a read on Dean Smith Villa fans, from a Brentford fan in peace.
I have to agree with criticism of our strategy to replace Bruce. From considering Marquee names like Henry to heavyweights like Rodgers and ending up with salt of the earth smith does seem a bit strange.

And yet all options included John Terry harpooned in. Really hasn't been a good start from the new regime at Villa Park.

You mean the coach Smith spoke with and decided he wanted?

Or are you confusing Villa with Brentford and Terry with Franks, the coach the club "harpooned" on him?

 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on October 15, 2018, 07:35:16 AM
It's absolute folly if people think that Smith was so desperate to take the Villa job, but only if he allowed Terry to be part of his coaching set up.  Utterly ridiculous notion.   
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: wozwebs on October 15, 2018, 08:44:12 AM
Percy of the Telegraph has already said that Smith is totally on board with Terry on his coaching staff. What manager wouldn't want someone with such a close connection with the players and who has already won everything domestically and champions league helping him?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on October 15, 2018, 08:45:06 AM
There's a lot of lazy opinion out there about Terry from those on the outside of it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Richard on October 15, 2018, 08:56:00 AM
I can see Terry happily coaching here and supporting Smith for 2 or 3 seasons before using the experience to go into management elsewhere. If during that time we get promoted and develop a clear style of attacking play then everyone's happy I presume.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on October 15, 2018, 09:21:41 AM
Quote from: olaftab on October 14, 2018, 05:11:49 PM
Quote from: DPA on October 14, 2018, 03:45:28 PM
https://twitter.com/davidanderson_1/status/1051027246109118466?s=21 Worth a read on Dean Smith Villa fans, from a Brentford fan in peace.
I have to agree with criticism of our strategy to replace Bruce. From considering Marquee names like Henry to heavyweights like Rodgers and ending up with salt of the earth smith does seem a bit strange.
You have no idea what the new "strategy" was in replacing Bruce. You have seen speculation in the media about other managers the same as the rest of us. For all you know the Smith/Terry duo was their aim from day one. If you do have some inside knowledge on the new owners feel free to share it but you will be asked to provide some kind of evidence by everyone on here.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on October 15, 2018, 09:40:31 AM
Quote from: brontebilly on October 14, 2018, 11:09:54 PM
Quote from: olaftab on October 14, 2018, 05:11:49 PM
Quote from: DPA on October 14, 2018, 03:45:28 PM
https://twitter.com/davidanderson_1/status/1051027246109118466?s=21 Worth a read on Dean Smith Villa fans, from a Brentford fan in peace.
I have to agree with criticism of our strategy to replace Bruce. From considering Marquee names like Henry to heavyweights like Rodgers and ending up with salt of the earth smith does seem a bit strange.
4
And yet all options included John Terry harpooned in. Really hasn't been a good start from the new regime at Villa Park.
"Apart from :
saving the club from financial meltdown (Xia was selling off car parks)
keeping our prize asset and telling Daniel Levy to fuck off in the process,
Bringing in a highly rated and much needed CEO,
Giving Bruce the money to buy John McGinn,
Getting rid of Bruce and his mind numbing "style of play" ,
Bringing in a highly rated Sporting director,
Bringing in a highly respected coach who's known for attractive modern style of play,
Bringing in an assistant who knows the modern game inside out and has won everything you can in professional football,
And giving the whole club and fanbase a huge lift and sense of optimism,
I mean, apart from that brothers and sisters, what have the new owners ever done for us?"
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nev on October 15, 2018, 09:46:13 AM
Aqueduct?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VILLA MOLE on October 15, 2018, 09:46:36 AM
Quote from: The Edge on October 15, 2018, 09:40:31 AM
Quote from: brontebilly on October 14, 2018, 11:09:54 PM
Quote from: olaftab on October 14, 2018, 05:11:49 PM
Quote from: DPA on October 14, 2018, 03:45:28 PM
https://twitter.com/davidanderson_1/status/1051027246109118466?s=21 Worth a read on Dean Smith Villa fans, from a Brentford fan in peace.
I have to agree with criticism of our strategy to replace Bruce. From considering Marquee names like Henry to heavyweights like Rodgers and ending up with salt of the earth smith does seem a bit strange.
4
And yet all options included John Terry harpooned in. Really hasn't been a good start from the new regime at Villa Park.
"Apart from :
saving the club from financial meltdown (Xia was selling off car parks)
keeping our prize asset and telling Daniel Levy to fuck off in the process,
Bringing in a highly rated and much needed CEO,
Giving Bruce the money to buy John McGinn,
Getting rid of Bruce and his mind numbing "style of play" ,
Bringing in a highly rated Sporting director,
Bringing in a highly respected coach who's known for attractive modern style of play,
Bringing in an assistant who knows the modern game inside out and has won everything you can in professional football,
And giving the whole club and fanbase a huge lift and sense of optimism,
I mean, apart from that brothers and sisters, what have the new owners ever done for us?"


Peace?   ;)


Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Archbishop Herbert Cockthrottle on October 15, 2018, 09:56:18 AM
Quote from: The Edge on October 15, 2018, 09:40:31 AM
Quote from: brontebilly on October 14, 2018, 11:09:54 PM
Quote from: olaftab on October 14, 2018, 05:11:49 PM
Quote from: DPA on October 14, 2018, 03:45:28 PM
https://twitter.com/davidanderson_1/status/1051027246109118466?s=21 Worth a read on Dean Smith Villa fans, from a Brentford fan in peace.
I have to agree with criticism of our strategy to replace Bruce. From considering Marquee names like Henry to heavyweights like Rodgers and ending up with salt of the earth smith does seem a bit strange.
4
And yet all options included John Terry harpooned in. Really hasn't been a good start from the new regime at Villa Park.
"Apart from :
saving the club from financial meltdown (Xia was selling off car parks)
keeping our prize asset and telling Daniel Levy to fuck off in the process,
Bringing in a highly rated and much needed CEO,
Giving Bruce the money to buy John McGinn,
Getting rid of Bruce and his mind numbing "style of play" ,
Bringing in a highly rated Sporting director,
Bringing in a highly respected coach who's known for attractive modern style of play,
Bringing in an assistant who knows the modern game inside out and has won everything you can in professional football,
And giving the whole club and fanbase a huge lift and sense of optimism,
I mean, apart from that brothers and sisters, what have the new owners ever done for us?"

Sawiris eunt domus.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tomd2103 on October 15, 2018, 09:59:06 AM
Quote from: The Edge on October 15, 2018, 09:21:41 AM
Quote from: olaftab on October 14, 2018, 05:11:49 PM
Quote from: DPA on October 14, 2018, 03:45:28 PM
https://twitter.com/davidanderson_1/status/1051027246109118466?s=21 Worth a read on Dean Smith Villa fans, from a Brentford fan in peace.
I have to agree with criticism of our strategy to replace Bruce. From considering Marquee names like Henry to heavyweights like Rodgers and ending up with salt of the earth smith does seem a bit strange.
You have no idea what the new "strategy" was in replacing Bruce. You have seen speculation in the media about other managers the same as the rest of us. For all you know the Smith/Terry duo was their aim from day one. If you do have some inside knowledge on the new owners feel free to share it but you will be asked to provide some kind of evidence by everyone on here.

Spot on.  For all anyone knows, the Smith / Terry combination might have been their preferred choice from day one and they were just waiting for the appointment of the Director of Football before announcing it.  All the rumours written in the papers regarding other managers may well have been exactly that. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on October 15, 2018, 10:04:00 AM
Quote from: The Edge on October 15, 2018, 09:40:31 AM
Quote from: brontebilly on October 14, 2018, 11:09:54 PM
Quote from: olaftab on October 14, 2018, 05:11:49 PM
Quote from: DPA on October 14, 2018, 03:45:28 PM
https://twitter.com/davidanderson_1/status/1051027246109118466?s=21 Worth a read on Dean Smith Villa fans, from a Brentford fan in peace.
I have to agree with criticism of our strategy to replace Bruce. From considering Marquee names like Henry to heavyweights like Rodgers and ending up with salt of the earth smith does seem a bit strange.
4
And yet all options included John Terry harpooned in. Really hasn't been a good start from the new regime at Villa Park.
"Apart from :
saving the club from financial meltdown (Xia was selling off car parks)
keeping our prize asset and telling Daniel Levy to fuck off in the process,
Bringing in a highly rated and much needed CEO,
Giving Bruce the money to buy John McGinn,
Getting rid of Bruce and his mind numbing "style of play" ,
Bringing in a highly rated Sporting director,
Bringing in a highly respected coach who's known for attractive modern style of play,
Bringing in an assistant who knows the modern game inside out and has won everything you can in professional football,
And giving the whole club and fanbase a huge lift and sense of optimism,
I mean, apart from that brothers and sisters, what have the new owners ever done for us?"

Overseeing a shambles of a transfer window that has left us with one centre half? I'm sure you were all giddy when Lerner and Xia took charge too but lack of effective governance eventually did it for them aswell. The new manager search only adds to the concern as the article articulates well.

John Terry coming in as assistant is a farce and puts unnecessary pressure on Smith from day one. Roy Keane wasn't exactly much of a help to Paul Lambert despite his medals.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VillaAlways on October 15, 2018, 10:14:38 AM
Quote from: brontebilly on October 15, 2018, 10:04:00 AM
Quote from: The Edge on October 15, 2018, 09:40:31 AM
Quote from: brontebilly on October 14, 2018, 11:09:54 PM
Quote from: olaftab on October 14, 2018, 05:11:49 PM
Quote from: DPA on October 14, 2018, 03:45:28 PM
https://twitter.com/davidanderson_1/status/1051027246109118466?s=21 Worth a read on Dean Smith Villa fans, from a Brentford fan in peace.
I have to agree with criticism of our strategy to replace Bruce. From considering Marquee names like Henry to heavyweights like Rodgers and ending up with salt of the earth smith does seem a bit strange.
4
And yet all options included John Terry harpooned in. Really hasn't been a good start from the new regime at Villa Park.
"Apart from :
saving the club from financial meltdown (Xia was selling off car parks)
keeping our prize asset and telling Daniel Levy to fuck off in the process,
Bringing in a highly rated and much needed CEO,
Giving Bruce the money to buy John McGinn,
Getting rid of Bruce and his mind numbing "style of play" ,
Bringing in a highly rated Sporting director,
Bringing in a highly respected coach who's known for attractive modern style of play,
Bringing in an assistant who knows the modern game inside out and has won everything you can in professional football,
And giving the whole club and fanbase a huge lift and sense of optimism,
I mean, apart from that brothers and sisters, what have the new owners ever done for us?"

Overseeing a shambles of a transfer window that has left us with one centre half? I'm sure you were all giddy when Lerner and Xia took charge too but lack of effective governance eventually did it for them aswell. The new manager search only adds to the concern as the article articulates well.

John Terry coming in as assistant is a farce and puts unnecessary pressure on Smith from day one. Roy Keane wasn't exactly much of a help to Paul Lambert despite his medals.
From Percy’s article in the Telegraph

“Villa were keen to bring Terry back but stressed to Smith during interview negotiations that the appointment was not a deal-breaker.

Smith held talks with Terry over the phone on Wednesday and decided adding the former England captain to his staff would be a huge boost for the players, who all admire him after his 12 months as a Villa player last season.”

Very much indicates it was in Smiths hands
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on October 15, 2018, 10:22:14 AM
Quote from: brontebilly on October 15, 2018, 10:04:00 AM


Overseeing a shambles of a transfer window that has left us with one centre half? I'm sure you were all giddy when Lerner and Xia took charge too but lack of effective governance eventually did it for them aswell. The new manager search only adds to the concern as the article articulates well.

John Terry coming in as assistant is a farce and puts unnecessary pressure on Smith from day one. Roy Keane wasn't exactly much of a help to Paul Lambert despite his medals.

How is John Terry coming in a farce? Just because Roy 'I've got no friends because I'm hard' Keane didn't do very well doesn't mean that Terry will be.

In fact, it's pretty clear that the influence that Terry had last year was one of the main reasons we finished as high as we did, without him involved who knows what would have happened with Bruce in charge.

As for the Centre Half thing, well I'd argue that is one of the key reasons why we now have a Director of Football and a new structure.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mattjpa on October 15, 2018, 10:24:51 AM
Quote from: tomd2103 on October 15, 2018, 09:59:06 AM
Quote from: The Edge on October 15, 2018, 09:21:41 AM
Quote from: olaftab on October 14, 2018, 05:11:49 PM
Quote from: DPA on October 14, 2018, 03:45:28 PM
https://twitter.com/davidanderson_1/status/1051027246109118466?s=21 Worth a read on Dean Smith Villa fans, from a Brentford fan in peace.
I have to agree with criticism of our strategy to replace Bruce. From considering Marquee names like Henry to heavyweights like Rodgers and ending up with salt of the earth smith does seem a bit strange.
You have no idea what the new "strategy" was in replacing Bruce. You have seen speculation in the media about other managers the same as the rest of us. For all you know the Smith/Terry duo was their aim from day one. If you do have some inside knowledge on the new owners feel free to share it but you will be asked to provide some kind of evidence by everyone on here.

Spot on.  For all anyone knows, the Smith / Terry combination might have been their preferred choice from day one and they were just waiting for the appointment of the Director of Football before announcing it.  All the rumours written in the papers regarding other managers may well have been exactly that. 

We dont even know if Henry was offered the position. As far as i can summise, we highlighted a shortlist of managers we would consider - Henry, Faria, Smith, Rodgers and Terry. We then spoke to them in order of what would appear to be (and makes complete sense) their current situation and availability. Henry was not completely committed (understandably), Faria is on a break from the sport and wasnt ready to come back,  Terry deemed to inexperienced which left Smith and Rodgers - One of whom would be a better fit and who was approached first - the rest is History.

Apart from the week long BS media speculation and betting companies swinging the odds to make money, I literally cant think of any way in which it could have been better conducted
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VILLA MOLE on October 15, 2018, 10:44:33 AM
Quote from: brontebilly on October 15, 2018, 10:04:00 AM
Quote from: The Edge on October 15, 2018, 09:40:31 AM
Quote from: brontebilly on October 14, 2018, 11:09:54 PM
Quote from: olaftab on October 14, 2018, 05:11:49 PM
Quote from: DPA on October 14, 2018, 03:45:28 PM
https://twitter.com/davidanderson_1/status/1051027246109118466?s=21 Worth a read on Dean Smith Villa fans, from a Brentford fan in peace.
I have to agree with criticism of our strategy to replace Bruce. From considering Marquee names like Henry to heavyweights like Rodgers and ending up with salt of the earth smith does seem a bit strange.
4
And yet all options included John Terry harpooned in. Really hasn't been a good start from the new regime at Villa Park.
"Apart from :
saving the club from financial meltdown (Xia was selling off car parks)
keeping our prize asset and telling Daniel Levy to fuck off in the process,
Bringing in a highly rated and much needed CEO,
Giving Bruce the money to buy John McGinn,
Getting rid of Bruce and his mind numbing "style of play" ,
Bringing in a highly rated Sporting director,
Bringing in a highly respected coach who's known for attractive modern style of play,
Bringing in an assistant who knows the modern game inside out and has won everything you can in professional football,
And giving the whole club and fanbase a huge lift and sense of optimism,
I mean, apart from that brothers and sisters, what have the new owners ever done for us?"

Overseeing a shambles of a transfer window that has left us with one centre half? I'm sure you were all giddy when Lerner and Xia took charge too but lack of effective governance eventually did it for them aswell. The new manager search only adds to the concern as the article articulates well.

John Terry coming in as assistant is a farce and puts unnecessary pressure on Smith from day one. Roy Keane wasn't exactly much of a help to Paul Lambert despite his medals.




Surely one of the reasons they let Bruce go ??
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VillaAlways on October 15, 2018, 11:13:02 AM

(https://thumb.ibb.co/kmedvf/F7-B2-B436-FDE7-424-E-ACF0-2-D4-BABCDA978.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kmedvf)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on October 15, 2018, 11:26:29 AM
Quote from: Drummond on October 15, 2018, 10:22:14 AM
Quote from: brontebilly on October 15, 2018, 10:04:00 AM


Overseeing a shambles of a transfer window that has left us with one centre half? I'm sure you were all giddy when Lerner and Xia took charge too but lack of effective governance eventually did it for them aswell. The new manager search only adds to the concern as the article articulates well.

John Terry coming in as assistant is a farce and puts unnecessary pressure on Smith from day one. Roy Keane wasn't exactly much of a help to Paul Lambert despite his medals.

How is John Terry coming in a farce? Just because Roy 'I've got no friends because I'm hard' Keane didn't do very well doesn't mean that Terry will be.

In fact, it's pretty clear that the influence that Terry had last year was one of the main reasons we finished as high as we did, without him involved who knows what would have happened with Bruce in charge.

As for the Centre Half thing, well I'd argue that is one of the key reasons why we now have a Director of Football and a new structure.

The OP highlighted Terrys medals as a big positive. The Keane example (And numerous others) proves that being a top top player does not lend to success on the sideline. Far from it usually.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: JUAN PABLO on October 15, 2018, 11:47:53 AM
Quote from: VillaAlways on October 15, 2018, 11:13:02 AM

(https://thumb.ibb.co/kmedvf/F7-B2-B436-FDE7-424-E-ACF0-2-D4-BABCDA978.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kmedvf)


I like the one with the big smile while signing , he looks so happy and proud.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on October 15, 2018, 11:48:21 AM
Quote from: brontebilly on October 15, 2018, 11:26:29 AM
Quote from: Drummond on October 15, 2018, 10:22:14 AM
Quote from: brontebilly on October 15, 2018, 10:04:00 AM


Overseeing a shambles of a transfer window that has left us with one centre half? I'm sure you were all giddy when Lerner and Xia took charge too but lack of effective governance eventually did it for them aswell. The new manager search only adds to the concern as the article articulates well.

John Terry coming in as assistant is a farce and puts unnecessary pressure on Smith from day one. Roy Keane wasn't exactly much of a help to Paul Lambert despite his medals.

How is John Terry coming in a farce? Just because Roy 'I've got no friends because I'm hard' Keane didn't do very well doesn't mean that Terry will be.

In fact, it's pretty clear that the influence that Terry had last year was one of the main reasons we finished as high as we did, without him involved who knows what would have happened with Bruce in charge.

As for the Centre Half thing, well I'd argue that is one of the key reasons why we now have a Director of Football and a new structure.

The OP highlighted Terrys medals as a big positive. The Keane example (And numerous others) proves that being a top top player does not lend to success on the sideline. Far from it usually.

Far from it? Despite the lists that have been done to death showing there are plenty who've done very well. Have you not seen the reports of the help that Terry was to Grealish? Or the reports that say he was a great dressing room influence? His attitude to fitness and training? Is Keane your only example?

Medals do mean something; success. The question is whether that success is understood and the experience utilised correctly. There are plenty of examples of it working elsewhere too, and we're only using him as one of our assistants.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: JUAN PABLO on October 15, 2018, 11:50:06 AM
(http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb411/lemsta007/ds%202_zpscg8rp6qd.jpg) (http://s1204.photobucket.com/user/lemsta007/media/ds%202_zpscg8rp6qd.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on October 15, 2018, 11:51:29 AM
Quote from: JUAN PABLO on October 15, 2018, 11:50:06 AM
(http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb411/lemsta007/ds%202_zpscg8rp6qd.jpg) (http://s1204.photobucket.com/user/lemsta007/media/ds%202_zpscg8rp6qd.jpg.html)

"Look  at me mom!"

He couldn't look prouder if he tried!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on October 15, 2018, 12:01:59 PM
Quote from: Ads on October 15, 2018, 11:51:29 AM
Quote from: JUAN PABLO on October 15, 2018, 11:50:06 AM
(http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb411/lemsta007/ds%202_zpscg8rp6qd.jpg) (http://s1204.photobucket.com/user/lemsta007/media/ds%202_zpscg8rp6qd.jpg.html)

"Look  at me mom!"

He couldn't look prouder if he tried!

That is fucking superb!  Looks like a kid at his first day at school.  Brilliant!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: BC Villain on October 15, 2018, 12:21:40 PM
Quote from: brontebilly on October 15, 2018, 10:04:00 AM
Quote from: The Edge on October 15, 2018, 09:40:31 AM
Quote from: brontebilly on October 14, 2018, 11:09:54 PM
Quote from: olaftab on October 14, 2018, 05:11:49 PM
Quote from: DPA on October 14, 2018, 03:45:28 PM
https://twitter.com/davidanderson_1/status/1051027246109118466?s=21 Worth a read on Dean Smith Villa fans, from a Brentford fan in peace.
I have to agree with criticism of our strategy to replace Bruce. From considering Marquee names like Henry to heavyweights like Rodgers and ending up with salt of the earth smith does seem a bit strange.
4
And yet all options included John Terry harpooned in. Really hasn't been a good start from the new regime at Villa Park.
"Apart from :
saving the club from financial meltdown (Xia was selling off car parks)
keeping our prize asset and telling Daniel Levy to fuck off in the process,
Bringing in a highly rated and much needed CEO,
Giving Bruce the money to buy John McGinn,
Getting rid of Bruce and his mind numbing "style of play" ,
Bringing in a highly rated Sporting director,
Bringing in a highly respected coach who's known for attractive modern style of play,
Bringing in an assistant who knows the modern game inside out and has won everything you can in professional football,
And giving the whole club and fanbase a huge lift and sense of optimism,
I mean, apart from that brothers and sisters, what have the new owners ever done for us?"

Overseeing a shambles of a transfer window that has left us with one centre half? I'm sure you were all giddy when Lerner and Xia took charge too but lack of effective governance eventually did it for them aswell. The new manager search only adds to the concern as the article articulates well.

John Terry coming in as assistant is a farce and puts unnecessary pressure on Smith from day one. Roy Keane wasn't exactly much of a help to Paul Lambert despite his medals.

Think that says as much about Roy Keanes persona as anything.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VILLA MOLE on October 15, 2018, 12:23:55 PM
Quote from: Risso on October 15, 2018, 12:01:59 PM
Quote from: Ads on October 15, 2018, 11:51:29 AM
Quote from: JUAN PABLO on October 15, 2018, 11:50:06 AM
(http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb411/lemsta007/ds%202_zpscg8rp6qd.jpg) (http://s1204.photobucket.com/user/lemsta007/media/ds%202_zpscg8rp6qd.jpg.html)

"Look  at me mom!"

He couldn't look prouder if he tried!

That is fucking superb!  Looks like a kid at his first day at school.  Brilliant!





it really Is , welcome Deano I wish you all the bloody best  go on my son !!! x
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: BC Villain on October 15, 2018, 12:24:38 PM
https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/aston-villa/2018/10/15/exclusive-villa-boss-dean-smith-wanted-old-pal-john-terry-as-coach/
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Hillbilly on October 15, 2018, 12:49:55 PM

[/quote]

The OP highlighted Terrys medals as a big positive. The Keane example (And numerous others) proves that being a top top player does not lend to success on the sideline. Far from it usually.
[/quote]And yet, Cruyff, Capello, that baldly fella at Man City etc etc.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on October 15, 2018, 12:52:09 PM
Quote from: VILLA MOLE on October 15, 2018, 12:23:55 PM
Quote from: Risso on October 15, 2018, 12:01:59 PM
Quote from: Ads on October 15, 2018, 11:51:29 AM
Quote from: JUAN PABLO on October 15, 2018, 11:50:06 AM
(http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb411/lemsta007/ds%202_zpscg8rp6qd.jpg) (http://s1204.photobucket.com/user/lemsta007/media/ds%202_zpscg8rp6qd.jpg.html)

"Look  at me mom!"

He couldn't look prouder if he tried!

That is fucking superb!  Looks like a kid at his first day at school.  Brilliant!





it really Is , welcome Deano I wish you all the bloody best  go on my son !!! x

Indeed. Such a great picture!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on October 15, 2018, 12:54:54 PM
Quote from: BC Villain on October 15, 2018, 12:24:38 PM
https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/aston-villa/2018/10/15/exclusive-villa-boss-dean-smith-wanted-old-pal-john-terry-as-coach/
@brontebilly. Please read this and drop it now? Especially the bit about "it's an exciting time for him and the club"
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on October 15, 2018, 01:02:05 PM
Quote from: JUAN PABLO on October 15, 2018, 11:50:06 AM
(http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb411/lemsta007/ds%202_zpscg8rp6qd.jpg) (http://s1204.photobucket.com/user/lemsta007/media/ds%202_zpscg8rp6qd.jpg.html)
The perfect example of a picture can mean  more than a thousand words. Brilliant.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on October 15, 2018, 01:05:59 PM
Quote from: BC Villain on October 15, 2018, 12:24:38 PM
https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/aston-villa/2018/10/15/exclusive-villa-boss-dean-smith-wanted-old-pal-john-terry-as-coach/

Wonderful stuff.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on October 15, 2018, 01:08:42 PM
Quote from: JUAN PABLO on October 15, 2018, 11:50:06 AM
(http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb411/lemsta007/ds%202_zpscg8rp6qd.jpg) (http://s1204.photobucket.com/user/lemsta007/media/ds%202_zpscg8rp6qd.jpg.html)
Absoultely brilliant. Welcome Deano and you are living the dream my son. Good luck.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on October 15, 2018, 01:10:58 PM
His Press conference is live on SSN at 4.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on October 15, 2018, 01:14:37 PM
Quote from: The Edge on October 15, 2018, 09:21:41 AM
You have no idea what the new "strategy" was in replacing Bruce. You have seen speculation in the media about other managers the same as the rest of us. For all you know the Smith/Terry duo was their aim from day one. If you do have some inside knowledge on the new owners feel free to share it but you will be asked to provide some kind of evidence by everyone on here.
Stop it please it was just a passing comment on a discussion forum. I didn't realise I was standing up in Court:)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Duncan Shaw on October 15, 2018, 01:21:45 PM
Quote from: olaftab on October 15, 2018, 01:10:58 PM
His Press conference is live on SSN at 4.
I presume JT will be there with him?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VillaAlways on October 15, 2018, 01:22:28 PM
Quote from: Duncan Shaw on October 15, 2018, 01:21:45 PM
Quote from: olaftab on October 15, 2018, 01:10:58 PM
His Press conference is live on SSN at 4.
I presume JT will be there with him?
Yes and Purslow
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Hookeysmith on October 15, 2018, 01:22:51 PM
Quote
Back to the pitch, Smith has a favourite role and player in the ten position, Romaine Sawyers. Sawyers followed him to Brentford from his time at Walsall and he’s a player that is pivotal to how Smith likes to attack. A number ten that controls the game on the edge of the opposition’s box.

And now he has inherited potentially the most exciting and able player in that position in the league!

Jack must be chuffed reading that
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on October 15, 2018, 01:34:19 PM
Quote from: Risso on October 15, 2018, 12:01:59 PM
Quote from: Ads on October 15, 2018, 11:51:29 AM
Quote from: JUAN PABLO on October 15, 2018, 11:50:06 AM
(http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb411/lemsta007/ds%202_zpscg8rp6qd.jpg) (http://s1204.photobucket.com/user/lemsta007/media/ds%202_zpscg8rp6qd.jpg.html)

"Look  at me mom!"

He couldn't look prouder if he tried!

That is fucking superb!  Looks like a kid at his first day at school.  Brilliant!
Love it!!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Axl Rose on October 15, 2018, 01:34:47 PM
Quote from: olaftab on October 15, 2018, 01:14:37 PM
Quote from: The Edge on October 15, 2018, 09:21:41 AM
You have no idea what the new "strategy" was in replacing Bruce. You have seen speculation in the media about other managers the same as the rest of us. For all you know the Smith/Terry duo was their aim from day one. If you do have some inside knowledge on the new owners feel free to share it but you will be asked to provide some kind of evidence by everyone on here.
Stop it please it was just a passing comment on a discussion forum. I didn't realise I was standing up in Court:)

Yes, I agree. Jesus Christ.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Stu on October 15, 2018, 01:38:02 PM
Quote from: DPA on October 14, 2018, 03:45:28 PM
https://twitter.com/davidanderson_1/status/1051027246109118466?s=21 Worth a read on Dean Smith Villa fans, from a Brentford fan in peace.

I have the same reservations about Dean Smith - in that his performances might just be as much down to how Brentford operate as a club as much as his managerial skills.

The rest of it is plain bollocks though - Bruce was shite and should have done better with the squad at his disposal. Outdone by a one dimensional Cardiff side and a filthy Fulham side in the play off final. Both are getting found out in the Prem right now - absolute garbage teams.

Finally, this paragraph made me LMAO:

'I do see a similarity in how Smith may use the ineffective Grealish but that is probably giving the Villa hierarchy too much credit in the foresight department. Villa do have a player that with the right coaching should be devastating and he can mature into as an effective weapon as Sawyers has been for Brentford.'
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on October 15, 2018, 01:53:43 PM
Quote from: Axl Rose on October 15, 2018, 01:34:47 PM
Quote from: olaftab on October 15, 2018, 01:14:37 PM
Quote from: The Edge on October 15, 2018, 09:21:41 AM
You have no idea what the new "strategy" was in replacing Bruce. You have seen speculation in the media about other managers the same as the rest of us. For all you know the Smith/Terry duo was their aim from day one. If you do have some inside knowledge on the new owners feel free to share it but you will be asked to provide some kind of evidence by everyone on here.
Stop it please it was just a passing comment on a discussion forum. I didn't realise I was standing up in Court:)

Yes, I agree. Jesus Christ.

Jesus said that? Wow.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on October 15, 2018, 01:55:19 PM
Deano

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: nigel on October 15, 2018, 02:08:19 PM
Quote from: Ads on October 15, 2018, 11:51:29 AM
Quote from: JUAN PABLO on October 15, 2018, 11:50:06 AM
(http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb411/lemsta007/ds%202_zpscg8rp6qd.jpg) (http://s1204.photobucket.com/user/lemsta007/media/ds%202_zpscg8rp6qd.jpg.html)

"Look  at me mom!"

He couldn't look prouder if he tried!

Brilliant photo.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villan from luton on October 15, 2018, 02:13:30 PM
Just heard the first interview and have to say massively impressed by his comments. You can tell how chuffed he is to be at Villa, can't wait for Saturday now
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Hookeysmith on October 15, 2018, 02:16:56 PM
I don't want to sound all schoolgirl.........but I fucking love him already
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: nigel on October 15, 2018, 02:30:28 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on October 15, 2018, 01:55:19 PM
Deano



Great interview.
Sounds proud as punch.

I think he'll have shivers down his spine when he walks out Saturday
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on October 15, 2018, 02:46:36 PM
Quote from: olaftab on October 15, 2018, 01:14:37 PM
Quote from: The Edge on October 15, 2018, 09:21:41 AM
You have no idea what the new "strategy" was in replacing Bruce. You have seen speculation in the media about other managers the same as the rest of us. For all you know the Smith/Terry duo was their aim from day one. If you do have some inside knowledge on the new owners feel free to share it but you will be asked to provide some kind of evidence by everyone on here.
Stop it please it was just a passing comment on a discussion forum. I didn't realise I was standing up in Court:)
Stop what? I thought your comment was unnecessary and I called you on it. Why question the strategy of our new owners? None of us know what went on with the recent appointments as they conducted themselves impeccably and professionally. We should all be eternally grateful that they came along when they did because make no mistake we we're up shit creek. We should all just look forward to an exciting time for AVFC. There is no merit in looking for any negatives right now. In my opinion.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on October 15, 2018, 02:51:32 PM
Quote from: Axl Rose on October 15, 2018, 01:34:47 PM
Quote from: olaftab on October 15, 2018, 01:14:37 PM
Quote from: The Edge on October 15, 2018, 09:21:41 AM
You have no idea what the new "strategy" was in replacing Bruce. You have seen speculation in the media about other managers the same as the rest of us. For all you know the Smith/Terry duo was their aim from day one. If you do have some inside knowledge on the new owners feel free to share it but you will be asked to provide some kind of evidence by everyone on here.
Stop it please it was just a passing comment on a discussion forum. I didn't realise I was standing up in Court:)

Yes, I agree. Jesus Christ.
You agree with him having a go at the very people who have saved our club from financial meltdown? Fair enough.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Monty on October 15, 2018, 03:01:03 PM
When the questions are largely that inane and the answers are so good - that's a very good sign.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: London Villan on October 15, 2018, 03:05:24 PM
What do we sing at him? Two syllables make it a bit tricky...
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on October 15, 2018, 03:29:39 PM
Quote from: London Villan on October 15, 2018, 03:05:24 PM
What do we sing at him? Two syllables make it a bit tricky...
This of course!

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tomd2103 on October 15, 2018, 03:31:57 PM
Quote from: mattjpa on October 15, 2018, 10:24:51 AM
Quote from: tomd2103 on October 15, 2018, 09:59:06 AM
Quote from: The Edge on October 15, 2018, 09:21:41 AM
Quote from: olaftab on October 14, 2018, 05:11:49 PM
Quote from: DPA on October 14, 2018, 03:45:28 PM
https://twitter.com/davidanderson_1/status/1051027246109118466?s=21 Worth a read on Dean Smith Villa fans, from a Brentford fan in peace.
I have to agree with criticism of our strategy to replace Bruce. From considering Marquee names like Henry to heavyweights like Rodgers and ending up with salt of the earth smith does seem a bit strange.
You have no idea what the new "strategy" was in replacing Bruce. You have seen speculation in the media about other managers the same as the rest of us. For all you know the Smith/Terry duo was their aim from day one. If you do have some inside knowledge on the new owners feel free to share it but you will be asked to provide some kind of evidence by everyone on here.

Spot on.  For all anyone knows, the Smith / Terry combination might have been their preferred choice from day one and they were just waiting for the appointment of the Director of Football before announcing it.  All the rumours written in the papers regarding other managers may well have been exactly that. 

We dont even know if Henry was offered the position. As far as i can summise, we highlighted a shortlist of managers we would consider - Henry, Faria, Smith, Rodgers and Terry. We then spoke to them in order of what would appear to be (and makes complete sense) their current situation and availability. Henry was not completely committed (understandably), Faria is on a break from the sport and wasnt ready to come back,  Terry deemed to inexperienced which left Smith and Rodgers - One of whom would be a better fit and who was approached first - the rest is History.

Apart from the week long BS media speculation and betting companies swinging the odds to make money, I literally cant think of any way in which it could have been better conducted

Absolutely Matt.  We simply don't know how the hiring process was conducted or indeed who was interviewed.  The press and bookmakers were all over the place with speculations, but that doesn't mean the club were. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: itbrvilla on October 15, 2018, 03:34:54 PM
Just read his favourite band is U2...
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: JUAN PABLO on October 15, 2018, 03:43:03 PM
Quote from: itbrvilla on October 15, 2018, 03:34:54 PM
Just read his favourite band is U2...

Smith out
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: luke95 on October 15, 2018, 03:49:27 PM
Any links for the press conference for those not sky friendly ?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: itbrvilla on October 15, 2018, 03:49:54 PM
Quote from: luke95 on October 15, 2018, 03:49:27 PM
Any links for the press conference for those not sky friendly ?
Its being streamed on youtube.



Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on October 15, 2018, 03:50:11 PM
Quote from: luke95 on October 15, 2018, 03:49:27 PM
Any links for the press conference for those not sky friendly ?

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: nigel on October 15, 2018, 03:51:09 PM
Quote from: London Villan on October 15, 2018, 03:05:24 PM
What do we sing at him? Two syllables make it a bit tricky...

Your one of our own
Your one of our own
Dean Smith
Your one of our own
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Moose on October 15, 2018, 04:01:21 PM
He used the word holistic....Bruce probably thinks that's a Croatian right back!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: BC54 VFC on October 15, 2018, 04:15:47 PM
D
Quote from: The Moose on October 15, 2018, 04:01:21 PM
He used the word holistic....Bruce probably thinks that's a Croatian right back!
;D ;D Great interview; came over very well.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on October 15, 2018, 04:18:53 PM
Quote from: The Edge on October 15, 2018, 02:46:36 PM
Quote from: olaftab on October 15, 2018, 01:14:37 PM
Quote from: The Edge on October 15, 2018, 09:21:41 AM
You have no idea what the new "strategy" was in replacing Bruce. You have seen speculation in the media about other managers the same as the rest of us. For all you know the Smith/Terry duo was their aim from day one. If you do have some inside knowledge on the new owners feel free to share it but you will be asked to provide some kind of evidence by everyone on here.
Stop it please it was just a passing comment on a discussion forum. I didn't realise I was standing up in Court:)
Stop what? I thought your comment was unnecessary and I called you on it. Why question the strategy of our new owners? None of us know what went on with the recent appointments as they conducted themselves impeccably and professionally. We should all be eternally grateful that they came along when they did because make no mistake we we're up shit creek. We should all just look forward to an exciting time for AVFC. There is no merit in looking for any negatives right now. In my opinion.
Yes ok. As you said it’s your opinion and I have a right to comment on an article. That’s all.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: nigel on October 15, 2018, 04:21:10 PM
Great interview
Thought Purslow came across well, too
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on October 15, 2018, 04:24:02 PM
No hesitation no weasel words no platitudes that’s Dean Smith.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: jwarry on October 15, 2018, 04:27:02 PM
Quote from: olaftab on October 15, 2018, 04:24:02 PM
No hesitation no weasel words no platitudes that’s Dean Smith.

So refreshing but there again he hasn’t had to defend our incompetent players yet!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nev on October 15, 2018, 04:28:46 PM
Purslow, now there's a man who chooses his words carefully.

It was all pretty low key, nothing special and that's just how it should be. Now on to Saturday.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: jwarry on October 15, 2018, 04:30:00 PM
How many times did they say we need work hard and earn the right? Is this the new ‘roll our sleeves up’?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: andyh on October 15, 2018, 04:32:08 PM
A nice start. Good and steady and not overplaying the Villa fan bit, infact he seems to be downplaying it.
What was very interesting was Purslow. I thought he came across as incredibly professional and measured.
His comments on finances were particularly interesting, he obviously fully understand the implications of FFP as he was involved in the drafting of the rules,  and it really sounds like the club have got a solid grasp of what we can and can’t do, and we can still do some stuff.
It’s going to be a fascinating few months.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: jwarry on October 15, 2018, 04:33:35 PM
Didn't realise we had so many internationals if he was only coaching 13 players today!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dr Butler on October 15, 2018, 04:37:18 PM
Welcome Dean, Richard and Terry

do ya best

UTV
The Doc
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ASHTONVILLA on October 15, 2018, 04:40:06 PM
Came across well, and is clearly much more intelligent than Bruce. Purslow seemed competent, and was far less oily than Wyness who always seemed a bit spivvy.

Pleased.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Hookeysmith on October 15, 2018, 04:41:17 PM
Quote from: andyh on October 15, 2018, 04:32:08 PM
A nice start. Good and steady and not overplaying the Villa fan bit, infact he seems to be downplaying it.
What was very interesting was Purslow. I thought he came across as incredibly professional and measured.
His comments on finances were particularly interesting, he obviously fully understand the implications of FFP as he was involved in the drafting of the rules,  and it really sounds like the club have got a solid grasp of what we can and can’t do, and we can still do some stuff.
It’s going to be a fascinating few months.
I agree with this 100%

Clearly he and the clubs owners (and I would imagine army of business lawyers) would have a huge understanding of the rules and how we can "use" them to our gain.  Interesting there was no mention of Dr Tony so safe to assume he has taken his money and gone.

Most clubs supporters would cut a limb off to have a sniff of a billionaire owner - we are on our 3rd and this time the whole structure has a different feeling about it - these are top professionals and Purslow  smacks of a very driven CEO

bring it on
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Richard on October 15, 2018, 04:42:21 PM
Quote from: jwarry on October 15, 2018, 04:33:35 PM
Didn't realise we had so many internationals if he was only coaching 13 players today!

I'm guessing that Nyland Chester McGinn Hourihane Hogan Bolasie BB Kodjia Abraham are all away and won't be back until Weds/Thurs 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: andyh on October 15, 2018, 04:46:32 PM
https://twitter.com/wittonroad/status/1051860516661092352?s=21
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Tuscans on October 15, 2018, 04:52:57 PM
Enjoyed how both came across and sounded very professional. Nice to hear we're starting to act like a "modern" football club and good news about FFP too if true.

Bore off the int break, I'm buzzing again now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sirlordbaltimore on October 15, 2018, 05:02:11 PM



Enjoyed that. Both came across well. Let's just take it from here and one game at a time now and see where we are come May
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on October 15, 2018, 05:03:03 PM
Interesting that Terry was excluded from the press conference having been previously mentioned he'd be attending. Smart move in my book. Happy the way DS said both Terry and O'Kelly are a major part of the decision making. Bibs and Cones they ain't. In his earlier interview he spoke about how O'Kelly challenges him and helps him improve. We seem to have a very clever set up and I for one am delighted the three are onboard.

Final word on Purslow. Never has a truer word been spoken, the most important man at the (or any) club is the Manager/Coach. Like him, I feel we've got the right man leading us.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on October 15, 2018, 05:22:03 PM
Quote from: jwarry on October 15, 2018, 04:33:35 PM
Didn't realise we had so many internationals if he was only coaching 13 players today!
He's realised the size of the task now as they were all right backs.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on October 15, 2018, 05:24:47 PM
The Villa aeroplane is on the runway.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: nigel on October 15, 2018, 05:28:46 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on October 15, 2018, 05:03:03 PM
Interesting that Terry was excluded from the press conference having been previously mentioned he'd be attending. Smart move in my book. Happy the way DS said both Terry and O'Kelly are a major part of the decision making. Bibs and Cones they ain't. In his earlier interview he spoke about how O'Kelly challenges him and helps him improve. We seem to have a very clever set up and I for one am delighted the three are onboard.

Final word on Purslow. Never has a truer word been spoken, the most important man at the (or any) club is the Manager/Coach. Like him, I feel we've got the right man leading us.

The way he spoke about JT involvement and the phone call.
How I read into it was that It sounded as if JT is quite humble and wiling to work, but Dean expects JT to 'challenge' him like O'Kelly.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Richard on October 15, 2018, 05:36:50 PM
Very much seems like Smith has a democratic style of management whereas Bruce was autocratic
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: passport1 on October 15, 2018, 05:40:53 PM
Quote from: brian green on October 15, 2018, 05:24:47 PM
The Villa aeroplane is on the runway.

Now can anyone find the engine?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: clash city rocker on October 15, 2018, 05:57:54 PM
15th in the championship and at home to Swansea. Possible sell out crowd...42k....noses,pie eaters and dingles....watch it and weep.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: johny on October 15, 2018, 05:58:23 PM
Absolutely buzzing. I have a feeling we might at long last have a proper manager. C'mon You Lions!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ldavfc4eva on October 15, 2018, 06:04:12 PM
Both came accross very well, articulate and thoughtful with the words they used.

In Smith we have found a down to earth and hopefully pragmatic coach who can get us playing attacking and winning football.

Purslow says the slate is clean financially, which I’m not sure it is although as he said he was involved in FFP before it came to pass so knows  more than most you would hope!

Exciting times
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cheltenhamlion on October 15, 2018, 06:49:27 PM
Quote from: passport1 on October 15, 2018, 05:40:53 PM
Quote from: brian green on October 15, 2018, 05:24:47 PM
The Villa aeroplane is on the runway.

Now can anyone find the engine?

Brontebilly won't.

The aeroplane is being fuelled. Let's hope we start taxiing by the end of the month and the pilot pisses over the Sty on his next trip to Majorca.

Smith looks alright to me. A bit rabbit in headlights but I have something similar at work currently. It all settles down in the end.

Welcome Dean. Play proper attacking football with a plan and don't be shit! 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: JUAN PABLO on October 15, 2018, 07:15:39 PM
(http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb411/lemsta007/jy%203_zpsio9ttyjd.jpeg) (http://s1204.photobucket.com/user/lemsta007/media/jy%203_zpsio9ttyjd.jpeg.html)


my mum told me to get Hazard
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Diablo on October 15, 2018, 07:22:13 PM
Quote from: Rudy65 on October 14, 2018, 08:40:21 PM
Quote from: VillaAlways on October 14, 2018, 04:46:10 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on October 14, 2018, 03:46:10 PM
Quote from: Tuscans on October 13, 2018, 08:14:17 PM
There's a little Villa podcast on youtube that some might of watched/ heard. Has a bloke from Soccer AM on there who's a Brentford fan giving some views and opinions on Dean Smith, quite interesting.

&feature=youtu.be
I listened to this the other day.  You can tell the Brentford fan just loves Smith and he sounds genuinely excited to see what he can do with our squad.  After listening to I feel really positive about this appointment

Really enjoyed that. Thanks for posting

About 90 mins of interviews with John Gregory on that site as well. Recommended
Thanks! Great interview with the Brentford fan from Soccer AM - I thought he came across really well. Brentford averaged 10,000 fans last year (2nd from bottom after Burton - not sure how many the away end holds?) which only shows how well run/managed they are to be able to compete at the level they do.

On a different subject the 3 part interview with Brian Little on their site is fab!! In it amongst many things he talks about the importance of his coaching team of John Gregory and Allan Evans and how he missed John when he left (but that he wanted John to be a manager) which made me think of todays new coaching set up. I'm not the greatest Appleyard fan but just looking at him last year he conducted himself extremely well (even if on the playing side he was prone to some defensive mistakes/errors that seemed to overlooked/ignored by many on here). I really hope that professionalism continues and if so I see no reason that he won't be a great coaching assistant to Dean Smith. Exciting times! UTV!!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CJ on October 15, 2018, 07:29:55 PM
Just watched those interviews. After Bruce's last game I posted on here that I couldn't remember what it was like to enjoy football. Having watched the interviews I can't remember the last time I felt so positive and happy to be looking forward to positive, entertaining football and good times round the corner.  The new owners have put everything in place to bring the good times back to the club. Hats off to all involved
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: clash city rocker on October 15, 2018, 07:57:38 PM
Really positive that FFP might not hamper us in January. Really excited that Messi and Naymar would be in defence for us....then I realised that Mr.Bruce wouldn't be in charge..Well thank you to the cabbage thrower that ruined my chances of seeing those two at the back for villa.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT on October 15, 2018, 07:57:46 PM
After watching that 20 minutes with Dean and Christian, I can honestly say I haven't been this positive about our club in a long old while.

It's clear we're being modernised from top to bottom.

I think it will soon become clear that we've been run prehistorically for years.

I thought they both came across really well and I can't wait for Saturday!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Louzie0 on October 15, 2018, 08:06:10 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on October 15, 2018, 03:29:39 PM
Quote from: London Villan on October 15, 2018, 03:05:24 PM
What do we sing at him? Two syllables make it a bit tricky...
This of course!

That’s marvellous  :)

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on October 15, 2018, 08:08:57 PM
Quote from: CT on October 15, 2018, 07:57:46 PM
I think it will soon become clear that we've been run prehistorically for years.

I've said many times on here, the day we start seeing regularly a good Villa side we'll wonder how we put up with so much crap for so long. There must be youngsters on here and within our fanbase that have only witnessed shit football. Finally we get to join the 21st century, it's long overdue.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT on October 15, 2018, 08:16:43 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on October 15, 2018, 08:08:57 PM
Quote from: CT on October 15, 2018, 07:57:46 PM
I think it will soon become clear that we've been run prehistorically for years.

I've said many times on here, the day we start seeing regularly a good Villa side we'll wonder how we put up with so much crap for so long. There must be youngsters on here and within our fanbase that have only witnessed shit football. Finally we get to join the 21st century, it's long overdue.

Yep, my lad is one of those youngsters. All he's known is utter garbage. I'm hoping this is just the start!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on October 15, 2018, 08:33:07 PM
Quote from: CT on October 15, 2018, 08:16:43 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on October 15, 2018, 08:08:57 PM
Quote from: CT on October 15, 2018, 07:57:46 PM
I think it will soon become clear that we've been run prehistorically for years.

I've said many times on here, the day we start seeing regularly a good Villa side we'll wonder how we put up with so much crap for so long. There must be youngsters on here and within our fanbase that have only witnessed shit football. Finally we get to join the 21st century, it's long overdue.

Yep, my lad is one of those youngsters. All he's known is utter garbage. I'm hoping this is just the start!
Mine too. There's a whole generation of young villa fans who have only ever known us being shite. I hope and pray that this is the start of all that changing.
 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: clash city rocker on October 15, 2018, 08:36:29 PM
Quote from: CT on October 15, 2018, 08:16:43 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on October 15, 2018, 08:08:57 PM
Quote from: CT on October 15, 2018, 07:57:46 PM
I think it will soon become clear that we've been run prehistorically for years.

I've said many times on here, the day we start seeing regularly a good Villa side we'll wonder how we put up with so much crap for so long. There must be youngsters on here and within our fanbase that have only witnessed shit football. Finally we get to join the 21st century, it's long overdue.

Yep, my lad is one of those youngsters. All he's known is utter garbage. I'm hoping this is just the start!

My daughter has only ever witnessed shit apart from the odd match. Don't k ow how she will take it if we become entertaining and successful. Only get a point at old Trafford...We might wish for the Bruce days again.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on October 15, 2018, 08:48:44 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on October 15, 2018, 08:08:57 PM
Quote from: CT on October 15, 2018, 07:57:46 PM
I think it will soon become clear that we've been run prehistorically for years.

I've said many times on here, the day we start seeing regularly a good Villa side we'll wonder how we put up with so much crap for so long. There must be youngsters on here and within our fanbase that have only witnessed shit football. Finally we get to join the 21st century, it's long overdue.

What is pretty gob smacking is that even in our most successful period of late, the MON years, if you only watched us at home, you' have seen mostly shit football even then, as it was the away stuff that was exciting to watch.

As discussed ad infinitum, at the time ;)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on October 15, 2018, 09:03:28 PM
Imagine an organised football team who knows what it's doing? With the players we have, and a bit of strengthening to come in January, the second half of the season, I fancy us to do a Fulham.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: old man villa fan on October 15, 2018, 09:06:56 PM
Quote from: brian green on October 15, 2018, 05:24:47 PM
The Villa aeroplane is on the runway.

Jettison some of the excess baggage (I am looking at you Richards) and we might take off at the first attempt.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Louzie0 on October 15, 2018, 09:07:36 PM
Quote from: Newby on October 15, 2018, 09:03:28 PM
Imagine an organised football team who knows what it's doing? With the players we have, and a bit of strengthening to come in January, the second half of the season, I fancy us to do a Fulham.
Hope you are right  ;)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on October 15, 2018, 09:23:30 PM
I wouldn't mind hijacking the Ryan Woods to Stoke City transfer.   Him and a decent centre back and I think we are a match for anyone. I'd like to see Woods, Grealish and McGinn as the central three midfielders.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on October 15, 2018, 09:40:34 PM
As time goes by, I become more and more convinced that there's absolutely no way that all this can be anything other than a resounding success.

Long live the revolution, bab.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on October 15, 2018, 09:45:05 PM
Quote from: CT on October 15, 2018, 08:16:43 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on October 15, 2018, 08:08:57 PM
Quote from: CT on October 15, 2018, 07:57:46 PM
I think it will soon become clear that we've been run prehistorically for years.

I've said many times on here, the day we start seeing regularly a good Villa side we'll wonder how we put up with so much crap for so long. There must be youngsters on here and within our fanbase that have only witnessed shit football. Finally we get to join the 21st century, it's long overdue.

Yep, my lad is one of those youngsters. All he's known is utter garbage. I'm hoping this is just the start!
Quote from: clash city rocker on October 15, 2018, 08:36:29 PM
Quote from: CT on October 15, 2018, 08:16:43 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on October 15, 2018, 08:08:57 PM
Quote from: CT on October 15, 2018, 07:57:46 PM
I think it will soon become clear that we've been run prehistorically for years.

I've said many times on here, the day we start seeing regularly a good Villa side we'll wonder how we put up with so much crap for so long. There must be youngsters on here and within our fanbase that have only witnessed shit football. Finally we get to join the 21st century, it's long overdue.

Yep, my lad is one of those youngsters. All he's known is utter garbage. I'm hoping this is just the start!

My daughter has only ever witnessed shit apart from the odd match. Don't k ow how she will take it if we become entertaining and successful. Only get a point at old Trafford...We might wish for the Bruce days again.

add my 10 year old to the list

it got to the point where i didn't even tell him we were playing some times,
 he has known nothing but Villa playing crap football week in and out

just booked tickets for Swansea at home and QPR away,
 i want him to love Villa not hate us and was scared to take him hopefully now is the time its safe to start going again
our first games this season
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on October 15, 2018, 09:50:40 PM
I liked "I will take advice and I will take opinions but I will make my decision and when we walk out it's our decision" . A bit of Cloughie there.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on October 15, 2018, 10:46:57 PM
Was reading some stuff on Dean Smith about his belief in the 4 R’s:

Receiving skills
Releasing skills
Running skills
Retention skills

What a refreshing change it will be for our players when compared to Bruce’s 4 R’s

Roll up sleeves skills
Ready to boot it long skills
Resist change skills
Ready with blame and excuse skills
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: not3bad on October 15, 2018, 10:52:55 PM
Well, if Dean Smith the Vila fan from Great Barr with John Terry by his side can't get them fired up, I don't know what can.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on October 15, 2018, 11:07:23 PM
Quote from: Drummond on October 15, 2018, 11:48:21 AM
Quote from: brontebilly on October 15, 2018, 11:26:29 AM
Quote from: Drummond on October 15, 2018, 10:22:14 AM
Quote from: brontebilly on October 15, 2018, 10:04:00 AM


Overseeing a shambles of a transfer window that has left us with one centre half? I'm sure you were all giddy when Lerner and Xia took charge too but lack of effective governance eventually did it for them aswell. The new manager search only adds to the concern as the article articulates well.

John Terry coming in as assistant is a farce and puts unnecessary pressure on Smith from day one. Roy Keane wasn't exactly much of a help to Paul Lambert despite his medals.

How is John Terry coming in a farce? Just because Roy 'I've got no friends because I'm hard' Keane didn't do very well doesn't mean that Terry will be.

In fact, it's pretty clear that the influence that Terry had last year was one of the main reasons we finished as high as we did, without him involved who knows what would have happened with Bruce in charge.

As for the Centre Half thing, well I'd argue that is one of the key reasons why we now have a Director of Football and a new structure.

The OP highlighted Terrys medals as a big positive. The Keane example (And numerous others) proves that being a top top player does not lend to success on the sideline. Far from it usually.

Far from it? Despite the lists that have been done to death showing there are plenty who've done very well. Have you not seen the reports of the help that Terry was to Grealish? Or the reports that say he was a great dressing room influence? His attitude to fitness and training? Is Keane your only example?

Medals do mean something; success. The question is whether that success is understood and the experience utilised correctly. There are plenty of examples of it working elsewhere too, and we're only using him as one of our assistants.

Go through the 92 managers in the league and see how many of them had stellar playing careers. The highest ranked British one is Mark Hughes and arguably very fortunate to still have a job. Medals as a player mean absolutely nothing, Klopp, Emery, Mourinho, Sarri all achieved very little as players.

To pick a handful of players of Terry's stature; Robson, Adams, Ince, Shearer. All leaders on the pitch but clowns on the sideline. The English game has been plagued by ex players being parachuted into management roles based on their playing reputation alone. Which is why it's great to see Dean Smith get a chance but Terry doesn't fit at all. The first pressure that Smith faces and Terrys buddies in the media will be pushing his chances of taking over.

Assistant, yes hopefully he will behave himself and be very much under the radar. But this is the same guy as a player that tried to lead a coup against Capello at the 2010WC and publicly get his mate Joe Cole in the side. Not to mention the numerous off field escapades he has been involved in that speak very poorly of his character. Great player but that will matter for little trying to organise our back four on the training field.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Iamkmkm on October 15, 2018, 11:07:59 PM
Seems like an honest man, it feels really good to have a birmingham born villa fan as a manager.

Iam really exicted too see what he can achieve with Villa.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on October 15, 2018, 11:31:50 PM
Why doesn't Terry fit? Who are Terry's buddies in the media?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on October 15, 2018, 11:44:25 PM
John Terry has not been parachuted in based on his paying career. Whatever the full reason why he has been given the job, I suspect that high up on the list is the fact that the team has fallen to pieces since the day he left.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Diablo on October 15, 2018, 11:47:51 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on October 15, 2018, 11:44:25 PM
John Terry has not been parachuted in based on his paying career. Whatever the full reason why he has been given the job, I suspect that high up on the list is the fact that the team has fallen to pieces since the day he left.
Playing career?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on October 15, 2018, 11:56:03 PM
Quote from: brontebilly on October 15, 2018, 11:07:23 PM
Quote from: Drummond on October 15, 2018, 11:48:21 AM
Quote from: brontebilly on October 15, 2018, 11:26:29 AM
Quote from: Drummond on October 15, 2018, 10:22:14 AM
Quote from: brontebilly on October 15, 2018, 10:04:00 AM


Overseeing a shambles of a transfer window that has left us with one centre half? I'm sure you were all giddy when Lerner and Xia took charge too but lack of effective governance eventually did it for them aswell. The new manager search only adds to the concern as the article articulates well.

John Terry coming in as assistant is a farce and puts unnecessary pressure on Smith from day one. Roy Keane wasn't exactly much of a help to Paul Lambert despite his medals.

How is John Terry coming in a farce? Just because Roy 'I've got no friends because I'm hard' Keane didn't do very well doesn't mean that Terry will be.

In fact, it's pretty clear that the influence that Terry had last year was one of the main reasons we finished as high as we did, without him involved who knows what would have happened with Bruce in charge.

As for the Centre Half thing, well I'd argue that is one of the key reasons why we now have a Director of Football and a new structure.

The OP highlighted Terrys medals as a big positive. The Keane example (And numerous others) proves that being a top top player does not lend to success on the sideline. Far from it usually.

Far from it? Despite the lists that have been done to death showing there are plenty who've done very well. Have you not seen the reports of the help that Terry was to Grealish? Or the reports that say he was a great dressing room influence? His attitude to fitness and training? Is Keane your only example?

Medals do mean something; success. The question is whether that success is understood and the experience utilised correctly. There are plenty of examples of it working elsewhere too, and we're only using him as one of our assistants.

Go through the 92 managers in the league and see how many of them had stellar playing careers. The highest ranked British one is Mark Hughes and arguably very fortunate to still have a job. Medals as a player mean absolutely nothing, Klopp, Emery, Mourinho, Sarri all achieved very little as players.

To pick a handful of players of Terry's stature; Robson, Adams, Ince, Shearer. All leaders on the pitch but clowns on the sideline. The English game has been plagued by ex players being parachuted into management roles based on their playing reputation alone. Which is why it's great to see Dean Smith get a chance but Terry doesn't fit at all. The first pressure that Smith faces and Terrys buddies in the media will be pushing his chances of taking over.

Assistant, yes hopefully he will behave himself and be very much under the radar. But this is the same guy as a player that tried to lead a coup against Capello at the 2010WC and publicly get his mate Joe Cole in the side. Not to mention the numerous off field escapades he has been involved in that speak very poorly of his character. Great player but that will matter for little trying to organise our back four on the training field.

I disagree. Far from plagued, we have nowhere near enough of our top players going into management or coaching. If you take out Ferguson protégés, there's, like, virtually fucking none.

You're probably right in that those that do get parachuted in do so on name alone, but Terry gives the impression of being serious about this, that he's looking at this as career progression rather than just something to fill his days now he's stopped playing. I hope he blasts all of our expectations sky fucking high.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VancouverLion on October 16, 2018, 12:09:33 AM
Quote from: olaftab on October 15, 2018, 09:50:40 PM
I liked "I will take advice and I will take opinions but I will make my decision and when we walk out it's our decision" . A bit of Cloughie there.
I picked up on this too, brilliant stuff.

Listening to Geno by the Dexy's and reading this thread full of optimism, let the good times roll, I for one can't wait!

In Deano we trust.
UTV
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TheMalandro on October 16, 2018, 05:53:11 AM
Quote from: VancouverLion on October 16, 2018, 12:09:33 AM
Quote from: olaftab on October 15, 2018, 09:50:40 PM
I liked "I will take advice and I will take opinions but I will make my decision and when we walk out it's our decision" . A bit of Cloughie there.
I picked up on this too, brilliant stuff.

Listening to Geno by the Dexy's and reading this thread full of optimism, let the good times roll, I for one can't wait!

In Deano we trust.
UTV

Quite. I'm convinced this is the right guy.

Very excited.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on October 16, 2018, 06:41:38 AM
Same here.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kieron on October 16, 2018, 06:55:00 AM
Quote from: chrisw1 on October 15, 2018, 03:29:39 PM
Quote from: London Villan on October 15, 2018, 03:05:24 PM
What do we sing at him? Two syllables make it a bit tricky...
This of course!



He once-cleaned-seats and he watched-from-the-stands, at the club. Oh Deano.
A Vill-a fan and now he's-the-man. Ooooh Deano.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on October 16, 2018, 07:47:29 AM
Quote from: brontebilly on October 15, 2018, 11:07:23 PM
Quote from: Drummond on October 15, 2018, 11:48:21 AM
Quote from: brontebilly on October 15, 2018, 11:26:29 AM
Quote from: Drummond on October 15, 2018, 10:22:14 AM
Quote from: brontebilly on October 15, 2018, 10:04:00 AM


Overseeing a shambles of a transfer window that has left us with one centre half? I'm sure you were all giddy when Lerner and Xia took charge too but lack of effective governance eventually did it for them aswell. The new manager search only adds to the concern as the article articulates well.

John Terry coming in as assistant is a farce and puts unnecessary pressure on Smith from day one. Roy Keane wasn't exactly much of a help to Paul Lambert despite his medals.

How is John Terry coming in a farce? Just because Roy 'I've got no friends because I'm hard' Keane didn't do very well doesn't mean that Terry will be.

In fact, it's pretty clear that the influence that Terry had last year was one of the main reasons we finished as high as we did, without him involved who knows what would have happened with Bruce in charge.

As for the Centre Half thing, well I'd argue that is one of the key reasons why we now have a Director of Football and a new structure.

The OP highlighted Terrys medals as a big positive. The Keane example (And numerous others) proves that being a top top player does not lend to success on the sideline. Far from it usually.

Far from it? Despite the lists that have been done to death showing there are plenty who've done very well. Have you not seen the reports of the help that Terry was to Grealish? Or the reports that say he was a great dressing room influence? His attitude to fitness and training? Is Keane your only example?

Medals do mean something; success. The question is whether that success is understood and the experience utilised correctly. There are plenty of examples of it working elsewhere too, and we're only using him as one of our assistants.

Go through the 92 managers in the league and see how many of them had stellar playing careers. The highest ranked British one is Mark Hughes and arguably very fortunate to still have a job. Medals as a player mean absolutely nothing, Klopp, Emery, Mourinho, Sarri all achieved very little as players.

To pick a handful of players of Terry's stature; Robson, Adams, Ince, Shearer. All leaders on the pitch but clowns on the sideline. The English game has been plagued by ex players being parachuted into management roles based on their playing reputation alone. Which is why it's great to see Dean Smith get a chance but Terry doesn't fit at all. The first pressure that Smith faces and Terrys buddies in the media will be pushing his chances of taking over.

Assistant, yes hopefully he will behave himself and be very much under the radar. But this is the same guy as a player that tried to lead a coup against Capello at the 2010WC and publicly get his mate Joe Cole in the side. Not to mention the numerous off field escapades he has been involved in that speak very poorly of his character. Great player but that will matter for little trying to organise our back four on the training field.
I'm guessing your a glass is half empty kinda guy? You seem to be working really hard to find negatives while the rest of us are excitedly looking forward to the future with hope in our hearts again. There's no real proof that this new set up will work, just hope. And that's enough for now. So much so that I'm taking my brother to the match on Saturday who hasn't been to a game in 8 years since he got knocked over and was seriously injured. We're both looking forward to a great  day out on Saturday. It may all go tits up who knows? But you can't help getting excited by what might be happening at Villa Park. Well most of us can't.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on October 16, 2018, 07:54:50 AM
To be honest, I'm wondering how Terry is going to fit in with this as well, especially with Richard O'Kelly there but let's see how it goes. Hopefully, it will be a massive success.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Allan C on October 16, 2018, 07:56:56 AM
Quote from: Ads on October 15, 2018, 11:31:50 PM
Why doesn't Terry fit? Who are Terry's buddies in the media?
Terry most definitely fits IMO. He’s one of the “new breed” of ex players who are thinking about the game, played under and learnt from the coaches who have brought the kind of football that is exciting to watch. That’s why IMO he, with Lampard and Henry, will do well in the role.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: clash city rocker on October 16, 2018, 07:58:08 AM
I wouldn't say that Terry has a lot of media buddies.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on October 16, 2018, 08:21:51 AM
Quote from: Clampy on October 16, 2018, 07:54:50 AM
To be honest, I'm wondering how Terry is going to fit in with this as well, especially with Richard O'Kelly there but let's see how it goes. Hopefully, it will be a massive success.

exactly where I am with it to

he's a strong character,
 he's seen his buddies go straight into number 1 spots, and he is joint number 2 with a up and comer who's done well at a couple of small clubs

I'm all for it though, he knows the players already and is a strong motivational leader, so if it works it will be fantastic for us as long as it lasts

but no one really knows how it will play out and we are all surmising

The biggest change for me is we have gone from no hope to hope
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on October 16, 2018, 08:23:36 AM
Quote from: kieron on October 16, 2018, 06:55:00 AM
Quote from: chrisw1 on October 15, 2018, 03:29:39 PM
Quote from: London Villan on October 15, 2018, 03:05:24 PM
What do we sing at him? Two syllables make it a bit tricky...
This of course!



He once-cleaned-seats and he watched-from-the-stands, at the club. Oh Deano.
A Vill-a fan and now he's-the-man. Ooooh Deano.

I'm not bein' flash, It's what I'm built to do - Deano
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on October 16, 2018, 08:42:23 AM
If Stevie Me and Lampard walked into jobs, Terry could have done as well.

He's decided to learn from Smith. Smith said he seemed humble and was a bit unsure about what he ought to get involved in, when Smith has said that he's not having that, he wants Terry involved and challenging him.

Smith has worked with 2 assistants at Brentford, one of which was the ex-Bromby manager.

Having somebody who is reportedly very knowledgeable, who happens to command the respect of the squad and know what we're about already isn't the stuff of farce.

He may not work out to be a brilliant coach, but his desire to learn the ropes here and take a back seat is a good thing.

I'm not sure if O'Kelly is Albion (he's a Yam-Yam by the sounds of him) but either way, all three know what this club is and what it's about.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy65 on October 16, 2018, 08:52:09 AM
Quote from: brontebilly on October 15, 2018, 11:07:23 PM
Quote from: Drummond on October 15, 2018, 11:48:21 AM
Quote from: brontebilly on October 15, 2018, 11:26:29 AM
Quote from: Drummond on October 15, 2018, 10:22:14 AM
Quote from: brontebilly on October 15, 2018, 10:04:00 AM


Overseeing a shambles of a transfer window that has left us with one centre half? I'm sure you were all giddy when Lerner and Xia took charge too but lack of effective governance eventually did it for them aswell. The new manager search only adds to the concern as the article articulates well.

John Terry coming in as assistant is a farce and puts unnecessary pressure on Smith from day one. Roy Keane wasn't exactly much of a help to Paul Lambert despite his medals.

How is John Terry coming in a farce? Just because Roy 'I've got no friends because I'm hard' Keane didn't do very well doesn't mean that Terry will be.

In fact, it's pretty clear that the influence that Terry had last year was one of the main reasons we finished as high as we did, without him involved who knows what would have happened with Bruce in charge.

As for the Centre Half thing, well I'd argue that is one of the key reasons why we now have a Director of Football and a new structure.

The OP highlighted Terrys medals as a big positive. The Keane example (And numerous others) proves that being a top top player does not lend to success on the sideline. Far from it usually.

Far from it? Despite the lists that have been done to death showing there are plenty who've done very well. Have you not seen the reports of the help that Terry was to Grealish? Or the reports that say he was a great dressing room influence? His attitude to fitness and training? Is Keane your only example?

Medals do mean something; success. The question is whether that success is understood and the experience utilised correctly. There are plenty of examples of it working elsewhere too, and we're only using him as one of our assistants.

Go through the 92 managers in the league and see how many of them had stellar playing careers. The highest ranked British one is Mark Hughes and arguably very fortunate to still have a job. Medals as a player mean absolutely nothing, Klopp, Emery, Mourinho, Sarri all achieved very little as players.

To pick a handful of players of Terry's stature; Robson, Adams, Ince, Shearer. All leaders on the pitch but clowns on the sideline. The English game has been plagued by ex players being parachuted into management roles based on their playing reputation alone. Which is why it's great to see Dean Smith get a chance but Terry doesn't fit at all. The first pressure that Smith faces and Terrys buddies in the media will be pushing his chances of taking over.

Assistant, yes hopefully he will behave himself and be very much under the radar. But this is the same guy as a player that tried to lead a coup against Capello at the 2010WC and publicly get his mate Joe Cole in the side. Not to mention the numerous off field escapades he has been involved in that speak very poorly of his character. Great player but that will matter for little trying to organise our back four on the training field.

I would say leading a coup, to use your words, against Capello was a good thing and is the sort of thing a captain should do if things are going very wrong
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Fred Crump on October 16, 2018, 09:19:21 AM
Quote from: Ads on October 16, 2018, 08:42:23 AM
If Stevie Me and Lampard walked into jobs, Terry could have done as well.

He's decided to learn from Smith. Smith said he seemed humble and was a bit unsure about what he ought to get involved in, when Smith has said that he's not having that, he wants Terry involved and challenging him.

Smith has worked with 2 assistants at Brentford, one of which was the ex-Bromby manager.

Having somebody who is reportedly very knowledgeable, who happens to command the respect of the squad and know what we're about already isn't the stuff of farce.

He may not work out to be a brilliant coach, but his desire to learn the ropes here and take a back seat is a good thing.

I'm not sure if O'Kelly is Albion (he's a Yam-Yam by the sounds of him) but either way, all three know what this club is and what it's about.

I saw Richard O’Kelly working with the youth team at Albion when my eldest was there many moons ago and I was very impressed. I didn’t meet anyone who had a bad word to say about him.  What you see is what you get ,he is considered, calm and articulate but absolutely tells it as it is. Dean Smith said yesterday that he values him because he challenges him and I can see that. He’s no shrinking violet or yes man but he says his piece in a positive way. On top of all that he seems a thoroughly decent human being. As regards being a yam yam , I wouldn’t worry, nobody’s perfect !
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rodders on October 16, 2018, 09:39:05 AM
Just watched the interview. Ohhhhh Deano! He had me at, "I want the players to express themselves on the pitch and the fans to enjoy the football."

He also gave some insight into his relationship with Terry in that he coached his brother for three years and that they got to know each other well during that period. I'm not worried about the notion of Terry's having been parachuted in.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tomd2103 on October 16, 2018, 09:45:50 AM
Quote from: Ads on October 16, 2018, 08:42:23 AM
If Stevie Me and Lampard walked into jobs, Terry could have done as well.

He's decided to learn from Smith. Smith said he seemed humble and was a bit unsure about what he ought to get involved in, when Smith has said that he's not having that, he wants Terry involved and challenging him.

I'm not sure Terry has his coaching badges does he?  If he doesn't, then the kind of role he is in now gives him the opportunity to finish those off while getting coaching experience at the same time.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on October 16, 2018, 11:49:05 AM
I noted with interest whilst viewing the picture gallery on the OS, Dean was pictured standing next to a tactics board with the title 'Attacking set pieces'.  There was absolutely nothing written down on it.  Another legacy of the Bruce era.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on October 16, 2018, 11:57:50 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on October 15, 2018, 11:44:25 PM
John Terry has not been parachuted in based on his paying career. Whatever the full reason why he has been given the job, I suspect that high up on the list is the fact that the team has fallen to pieces since the day he left.

Plus the fact with his knowledge of the squad we can hopefully hit the ground running. Promotion is still the target for the season, lest we forget.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on October 16, 2018, 12:09:23 PM
I simply don't understand the hostility towards him. We haven't had any semblance of leadership since he left. Hopefully he and Dean will restore that quality and generally improve the way we play.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on October 16, 2018, 12:52:48 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on October 16, 2018, 11:57:50 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on October 15, 2018, 11:44:25 PM
John Terry has not been parachuted in based on his paying career. Whatever the full reason why he has been given the job, I suspect that high up on the list is the fact that the team has fallen to pieces since the day he left.

Plus the fact with his knowledge of the squad we can hopefully hit the ground running. Promotion is still the target for the season, lest we forget.

It is one of the smartest things Mr Smith could have done to be honest.  The press as usual trying to make something out of nothing. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 16, 2018, 01:06:15 PM
I get the impression Terry wants to learn, will be very respectful, and will add value to our overall performance.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on October 16, 2018, 01:09:50 PM
 No one was happier than me when Brucey got the chop
and I’m delighted with Dean Smith

but all the things that are said after the press conference

‘He gets the Villa’
‘Proper football man’
‘He’ll sort the mess out’
‘He comes over well’
‘He’s very likeable’
‘He knows this league inside out’
‘this is the biggest job he’s ever had’
‘He’s looks really happy to be here’
‘He talks a lot of sense’

every one of them were said about Bruce as well
it’s what happens on the pitch that counts
i not that bothered what they say anymore and that goes for players and CEO’s as well, I just want to see the proof on the pitch

that’s why I’m more than hopeful with Smith because his track record is attractive attacking football
It’s not something we are making fit or hoping for, it’s what he does

I just want to see it now

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on October 16, 2018, 01:54:23 PM
Quote from: nigel on October 15, 2018, 02:30:28 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on October 15, 2018, 01:55:19 PM
Deano



Great interview.
Sounds proud as punch.

I think he'll have shivers down his spine when he walks out Saturday
I had shivers just watching this!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on October 16, 2018, 04:35:20 PM
Having watched the press conference and the interview with Terry and O'Kelly it sounds very much like we have, eventually, put a modern structure in place and we're trying to fix the culture at the top level of the club. I wish it had happened 2 years ago and it might not work out at the first attempt but this is definitely a big step in the right direction.

What I'd now like to see is an interview with Pitarch and for him to talk about modernising the scouting system and putting much more faith into analytics. It will never replace watching players/teams but it can highlight things to look for and help set a focus, rather than the aimless recruitment strategy we've had for the last couple of years.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on October 16, 2018, 05:53:29 PM
Quote from: not3bad on October 15, 2018, 10:52:55 PM
Well, if Dean Smith the Vila fan from Great Barr with John Terry by his side can't get them fired up, I don't know what can.
Fuck that .... I have gone right off him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on October 16, 2018, 06:19:37 PM
We've entered into a new partnership with a data performance provider. I'm not sure how much it upgrades on what went before, but all the players have those bra like things back on.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Diablo on October 16, 2018, 06:22:13 PM
Quote from: Ads on October 16, 2018, 06:19:37 PM
We've entered into a new partnership with a data performance provider. I'm not sure how much it upgrades on what went before, but all the players have those bra like things back on.
Do players play the match with them on? I can't say I've noticed other teams wearing them if so? Remember when players couldn't wear certain jewellery? I'm assuming that's still the case.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on October 16, 2018, 07:00:10 PM
Quote from: Diablo on October 16, 2018, 06:22:13 PM
Quote from: Ads on October 16, 2018, 06:19:37 PM
We've entered into a new partnership with a data performance provider. I'm not sure how much it upgrades on what went before, but all the players have those bra like things back on.
Do players play the match with them on? I can't say I've noticed other teams wearing them if so? Remember when players couldn't wear certain jewellery? I'm assuming that's still the case.

Some do and they're common in both forms of rugby.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: West Derby Villan on October 16, 2018, 07:29:47 PM
Quote from: olaftab on October 16, 2018, 05:53:29 PM
Quote from: not3bad on October 15, 2018, 10:52:55 PM
Well, if Dean Smith the Vila fan from Great Barr with John Terry by his side can't get them fired up, I don't know what can.
Fuck that .... I have gone right off him.

Nooooooooooooooooo
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: clash city rocker on October 16, 2018, 08:45:04 PM
I don't think we can start sucking each other's cocks just yet as the new team will take time to make changes but the future suddenly looks a lot brighter.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on October 16, 2018, 08:49:53 PM
No but we can start fluffing.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Hookeysmith on October 16, 2018, 08:58:57 PM
Quote from: clash city rocker on October 16, 2018, 08:45:04 PM
I don't think we can start sucking each other's cocks just yet as the new team will take time to make changes but the future suddenly looks a lot brighter.

Mine is ready if anyone wants to start early :)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: clash city rocker on October 16, 2018, 09:07:43 PM
Quote from: Hookeysmith on October 16, 2018, 08:58:57 PM
Quote from: clash city rocker on October 16, 2018, 08:45:04 PM
I don't think we can start sucking each other's cocks just yet as the new team will take time to make changes but the future suddenly looks a lot brighter.

Mine is ready if anyone wants to start early :)

Fuckin priceless
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on October 16, 2018, 09:09:11 PM
Quote from: clash city rocker on October 16, 2018, 08:45:04 PM
I don't think we can start sucking each other's cocks just yet as the new team will take time to make changes but the future suddenly looks a lot brighter.

The sucking of anyone on here's cock does not feature in any of my definitions of a bright future. I will happily wank off a dog, or, if promotion depends on it, an incel.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VILLA MOLE on October 17, 2018, 11:10:30 AM
Quote from: Hookeysmith on October 16, 2018, 08:58:57 PM
Quote from: clash city rocker on October 16, 2018, 08:45:04 PM
I don't think we can start sucking each other's cocks just yet as the new team will take time to make changes but the future suddenly looks a lot brighter.

Mine is ready if anyone wants to start early :)


just touch it,   go on !! 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on October 17, 2018, 11:35:33 AM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on October 16, 2018, 09:09:11 PM
Quote from: clash city rocker on October 16, 2018, 08:45:04 PM
I don't think we can start sucking each other's cocks just yet as the new team will take time to make changes but the future suddenly looks a lot brighter.

The sucking of anyone on here's cock does not feature in any of my definitions of a bright future. I will happily wank off a dog, or, if promotion depends on it, an incel.


I stuck my finger up my dogs bum once. Before anyone reports me to the RSPCA I should explain I was trying to shoo her upstairs so I could answer the door and by sheer fluke managed a direct hit with my middle finger. It was a traumatic experience for both of us. Afterwards I had to wash my hands like someone with OCD until they almost bled. There was also an awkward period of time afterwards when the dog and I couldn't look each other in the eye.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Jon Crofts on October 17, 2018, 11:50:31 AM
Quote from: Damo70 on October 17, 2018, 11:35:33 AM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on October 16, 2018, 09:09:11 PM
Quote from: clash city rocker on October 16, 2018, 08:45:04 PM
I don't think we can start sucking each other's cocks just yet as the new team will take time to make changes but the future suddenly looks a lot brighter.

The sucking of anyone on here's cock does not feature in any of my definitions of a bright future. I will happily wank off a dog, or, if promotion depends on it, an incel.


I stuck my finger up my dogs bum once. Before anyone reports me to the RSPCA I should explain I was trying to shoo her upstairs so I could answer the door and by sheer fluke managed a direct hit with my middle finger. It was a traumatic experience for both of us. Afterwards I had to wash my hands like someone with OCD until they almost bled. There was also an awkward period of time afterwards when the dog and I couldn't look each other in the eye.

You dirty bugger.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on October 17, 2018, 11:58:46 AM
Quote from: Damo70 on October 17, 2018, 11:35:33 AM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on October 16, 2018, 09:09:11 PM
Quote from: clash city rocker on October 16, 2018, 08:45:04 PM
I don't think we can start sucking each other's cocks just yet as the new team will take time to make changes but the future suddenly looks a lot brighter.

The sucking of anyone on here's cock does not feature in any of my definitions of a bright future. I will happily wank off a dog, or, if promotion depends on it, an incel.


I stuck my finger up my dogs bum once. Before anyone reports me to the RSPCA I should explain I was trying to shoo her upstairs so I could answer the door and by sheer fluke managed a direct hit with my middle finger. It was a traumatic experience for both of us. Afterwards I had to wash my hands like someone with OCD until they almost bled. There was also an awkward period of time afterwards when the dog and I couldn't look each other in the eye.
This has cracked me up!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tomd2103 on October 17, 2018, 12:25:36 PM
Quote from: paul_e on October 16, 2018, 07:00:10 PM
Quote from: Diablo on October 16, 2018, 06:22:13 PM
Quote from: Ads on October 16, 2018, 06:19:37 PM
We've entered into a new partnership with a data performance provider. I'm not sure how much it upgrades on what went before, but all the players have those bra like things back on.
Do players play the match with them on? I can't say I've noticed other teams wearing them if so? Remember when players couldn't wear certain jewellery? I'm assuming that's still the case.

Some do and they're common in both forms of rugby.

They are normally situated between the shoulders on a player's back.  Looks like they have an abnormal lump there!!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Axl Rose on October 17, 2018, 12:26:26 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on October 17, 2018, 11:58:46 AM
Quote from: Damo70 on October 17, 2018, 11:35:33 AM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on October 16, 2018, 09:09:11 PM
Quote from: clash city rocker on October 16, 2018, 08:45:04 PM
I don't think we can start sucking each other's cocks just yet as the new team will take time to make changes but the future suddenly looks a lot brighter.

The sucking of anyone on here's cock does not feature in any of my definitions of a bright future. I will happily wank off a dog, or, if promotion depends on it, an incel.


I stuck my finger up my dogs bum once. Before anyone reports me to the RSPCA I should explain I was trying to shoo her upstairs so I could answer the door and by sheer fluke managed a direct hit with my middle finger. It was a traumatic experience for both of us. Afterwards I had to wash my hands like someone with OCD until they almost bled. There was also an awkward period of time afterwards when the dog and I couldn't look each other in the eye.
This has cracked me up!

Haha. Me too. I've just laughed loudly on the train.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on October 17, 2018, 12:36:18 PM
Quote from: Axl Rose on October 17, 2018, 12:26:26 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on October 17, 2018, 11:58:46 AM
Quote from: Damo70 on October 17, 2018, 11:35:33 AM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on October 16, 2018, 09:09:11 PM
Quote from: clash city rocker on October 16, 2018, 08:45:04 PM
I don't think we can start sucking each other's cocks just yet as the new team will take time to make changes but the future suddenly looks a lot brighter.

The sucking of anyone on here's cock does not feature in any of my definitions of a bright future. I will happily wank off a dog, or, if promotion depends on it, an incel.


I stuck my finger up my dogs bum once. Before anyone reports me to the RSPCA I should explain I was trying to shoo her upstairs so I could answer the door and by sheer fluke managed a direct hit with my middle finger. It was a traumatic experience for both of us. Afterwards I had to wash my hands like someone with OCD until they almost bled. There was also an awkward period of time afterwards when the dog and I couldn't look each other in the eye.
This has cracked me up!

Haha. Me too. I've just laughed loudly on the train.

Literally crying with laughter at my desk, getting very funny looks from all around me!

"What are you laughing at Adam?"

"Just reading about a bloke fingering his dog."
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Walmley_Villa on October 17, 2018, 12:38:18 PM
Lol!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on October 17, 2018, 12:42:49 PM
It sounds like the name of an episode of Friends.

"The One Where Damo Accidentally Fingered His Dog"
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Hookeysmith on October 17, 2018, 01:21:17 PM
Quote
There was also an awkward period of time afterwards when the dog and I couldn't look each other in the eye.

Lay back, smoked a cigarette and pondered how far this relationship would go  ;)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on October 17, 2018, 01:41:21 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on October 17, 2018, 12:42:49 PM
It sounds like the name of an episode of Friends.

"The One Where Damo Accidentally Fingered His Dog"
After reading what Damo watches on the TV thread, I bet he's actually seen that one. ;)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Pvb1968 on October 17, 2018, 01:50:27 PM
Quote from: Damo70 on October 17, 2018, 11:35:33 AM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on October 16, 2018, 09:09:11 PM
Quote from: clash city rocker on October 16, 2018, 08:45:04 PM
I don't think we can start sucking each other's cocks just yet as the new team will take time to make changes but the future suddenly looks a lot brighter.

The sucking of anyone on here's cock does not feature in any of my definitions of a bright future. I will happily wank off a dog, or, if promotion depends on it, an incel.


I stuck my finger up my dogs bum once. Before anyone reports me to the RSPCA I should explain I was trying to shoo her upstairs so I could answer the door and by sheer fluke managed a direct hit with my middle finger. It was a traumatic experience for both of us. Afterwards I had to wash my hands like someone with OCD until they almost bled. There was also an awkward period of time afterwards when the dog and I couldn't look each other in the eye.

I have never accidentally poked our beagles bum but whenever i have to tell him off he wont look me in the eye afterwards unless i apologies to him as my wife tells me ive hurt his fellings.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Moose on October 17, 2018, 04:16:15 PM
I wonder if Dean Smith logs in here.....?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 17, 2018, 04:35:36 PM
No I don't.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on October 17, 2018, 04:55:08 PM
Bit pissed but FWIIW sticking your finger sharply up your dog's arse when you put it in the starting traps is a sure way of guaranteeing it hits the lid (flies out of the traps).
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Monty on October 17, 2018, 05:08:30 PM
Quote from: brian green on October 17, 2018, 04:55:08 PM
Bit pissed but FWIIW sticking your finger sharply up your dog's arse when you put it in the starting traps is a sure way of guaranteeing it hits the lid (flies out of the traps).

*Scrolling thread, learning about new manager, eyes widen in shock, closes thread, jumps out of window*
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on October 17, 2018, 05:17:40 PM
Damo when you answered the door did you shake hands with whoever was there? It’s the least they deserved for ringing your bell.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: JD on October 17, 2018, 05:59:26 PM
This is quality posting. Sitting at Christchurch Airport waiting for a flight to Sydney laughing (and getting strange looks). H&V's at its best.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: four fornicholl on October 17, 2018, 06:40:46 PM
Quote from: brian green on October 17, 2018, 04:55:08 PM
Bit pissed but FWIIW sticking your finger sharply up your dog's arse when you put it in the starting traps is a sure way of guaranteeing it hits the lid (flies out of the traps).
Round my way,they stick matchsticks up trail hound dogs arses to make them take a shit before racing so they don't stop halfway round!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on October 17, 2018, 06:44:42 PM
Quote from: brian green on October 17, 2018, 04:55:08 PM
Bit pissed but FWIIW sticking your finger sharply up your dog's arse when you put it in the starting traps is a sure way of guaranteeing it hits the lid (flies out of the traps).
That's all well and good as long as you remember which finger you used, before picking your nose or indulge in any other bodily action.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on October 17, 2018, 07:04:02 PM
I feel a bit sorry for Damo now. Even if he discovers a cure for cancer or promotes peace in the Middle East, he's going to be known as Damo the dog-fingerer from now on.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Herman on October 17, 2018, 07:11:56 PM
Yes, I did stick my finger up the dog's bottom M'lud, but it was a complete accident.
'Yes of course it was! Now get into D wing with the rest of the nonces`
 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave shelley on October 17, 2018, 07:42:31 PM


Replace woodpecker with the breed of Damo's dog.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: andyh on October 17, 2018, 07:47:01 PM
Feckin hell you lot, give the guy a break.

Bloody helll, you finger one dog.........
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Hookeysmith on October 17, 2018, 08:00:23 PM
Quote from: andyh on October 17, 2018, 07:47:01 PM
Feckin hell you lot, give the guy a break.

Bloody helll, you finger one dog.........
It's not like he sucked off the cat
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on October 17, 2018, 08:01:40 PM
Quote from: Hookeysmith on October 17, 2018, 08:00:23 PM
Quote from: andyh on October 17, 2018, 07:47:01 PM
Feckin hell you lot, give the guy a break.

Bloody helll, you finger one dog.........
It's not like he sucked off the cat

You obviously haven't seen the video on his blog.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Bad English on October 17, 2018, 09:17:10 PM
Quote from: Risso on October 17, 2018, 07:04:02 PM
I feel a bit sorry for Damo now. Even if he discovers a cure for cancer or promotes peace in the Middle East, he's going to be known as Damo the dog-fingerer from now on.
Was it a poodle?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Herman on October 17, 2018, 09:25:41 PM
Quote from: Bad English on October 17, 2018, 09:17:10 PM
Quote from: Risso on October 17, 2018, 07:04:02 PM
I feel a bit sorry for Damo now. Even if he discovers a cure for cancer or promotes peace in the Middle East, he's going to be known as Damo the dog-fingerer from now on.
Was it a poodle?

Perhaps a Shitsu?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on October 17, 2018, 09:35:05 PM
Quote from: Herman on October 17, 2018, 09:25:41 PM
Quote from: Bad English on October 17, 2018, 09:17:10 PM
Quote from: Risso on October 17, 2018, 07:04:02 PM
I feel a bit sorry for Damo now. Even if he discovers a cure for cancer or promotes peace in the Middle East, he's going to be known as Damo the dog-fingerer from now on.
Was it a poodle?

Perhaps a Shitsu?

Applause.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on October 17, 2018, 09:48:40 PM
How do you stop a dog from humping your leg?


Suck it's cock. (though I think Damo changed the punchline)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VILLA MOLE on October 17, 2018, 10:00:19 PM


well
Quote from: Drummond on October 17, 2018, 09:48:40 PM
How do you stop a dog from humping your leg?


Suck it's cock. (though I think Damo changed the punchline)




well Deano is in for a shock if he does come on this thread late
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Bad English on October 17, 2018, 10:01:35 PM
It's the tale wanking the dog.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lsvilla on October 17, 2018, 10:06:28 PM
Quote from: Herman on October 17, 2018, 09:25:41 PM
Quote from: Bad English on October 17, 2018, 09:17:10 PM
Quote from: Risso on October 17, 2018, 07:04:02 PM
I feel a bit sorry for Damo now. Even if he discovers a cure for cancer or promotes peace in the Middle East, he's going to be known as Damo the dog-fingerer from now on.
Was it a poodle?

Perhaps a Shitsu?
Called Dudley ?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: maidstonevillain on October 17, 2018, 10:24:33 PM
Quote from: Bad English on October 17, 2018, 10:01:35 PM
It's the tale wanking the dog.


.....tail......   bit of Bad English there...
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Bad English on October 17, 2018, 10:26:52 PM
Quote from: maidstonevillain on October 17, 2018, 10:24:33 PM
Quote from: Bad English on October 17, 2018, 10:01:35 PM
It's the tale wanking the dog.


.....tail......   bit of Bad English there...
No. It was Damo's story about stimulating the mutt.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: maidstonevillain on October 17, 2018, 10:31:40 PM
Quote from: Bad English on October 17, 2018, 10:26:52 PM
Quote from: maidstonevillain on October 17, 2018, 10:24:33 PM
Quote from: Bad English on October 17, 2018, 10:01:35 PM
It's the tale wanking the dog.


.....tail......   bit of Bad English there...
No. It was Damo's story about stimulating the mutt.

Yes. I realised that once I read back.....
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on October 17, 2018, 11:16:37 PM
This thread needs the Abe Simpson gif.

Dafuq you lot?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on October 17, 2018, 11:21:04 PM
Supposedly had Ginge training with us again. I would take him over Jedinak. It would also mean he'd stop having to buy tickets and could travel on the team bus*.

*one for those who travel away.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: not3bad on October 17, 2018, 11:52:25 PM
Quote from: Herman on October 17, 2018, 09:25:41 PM
Quote from: Bad English on October 17, 2018, 09:17:10 PM
Quote from: Risso on October 17, 2018, 07:04:02 PM
I feel a bit sorry for Damo now. Even if he discovers a cure for cancer or promotes peace in the Middle East, he's going to be known as Damo the dog-fingerer from now on.
Was it a poodle?

Perhaps a Shitsu?

Cocker spaniel surely.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on October 18, 2018, 07:46:09 AM
Quote from: john e on October 16, 2018, 01:09:50 PM
No one was happier than me when Brucey got the chop
and I’m delighted with Dean Smith

but all the things that are said after the press conference

‘He gets the Villa’
‘Proper football man’
‘He’ll sort the mess out’
‘He comes over well’
‘He’s very likeable’
‘He knows this league inside out’
‘this is the biggest job he’s ever had’
‘He’s looks really happy to be here’
‘He talks a lot of sense’

every one of them were said about Bruce as well
it’s what happens on the pitch that counts
i not that bothered what they say anymore and that goes for players and CEO’s as well, I just want to see the proof on the pitch

that’s why I’m more than hopeful with Smith because his track record is attractive attacking football
It’s not something we are making fit or hoping for, it’s what he does

I just want to see it now



This is pretty much where I am as well? I’m cautiously optimistic about Smith but I’m aware that we seem to have had plenty of Great White Hope’s over the last few years, all of them coming in to revolutionise us and none doing a particularly impressive job.

I hope he does very well, he’s certainly not going to do it overnight.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on October 18, 2018, 08:30:27 AM
Dean Smith will do well.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on October 18, 2018, 09:39:46 AM
I don't remember such a positive welcome being afforded to a manager, can you?

When you look at what we've had before, it's not exactly a surprise, but the whole management team have been hugely positive and the supporters' response too.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on October 18, 2018, 09:54:28 AM
I think, Drum, that it is a response to the feeling that there has been a total clear out of the clutter of people for want of a better phrase, with a there or thereabouts attitude to their responsibilities.  Like the club having a head of European scouting living in Australia.  The new broom has swept clean.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on October 18, 2018, 10:40:38 AM
Well, I'm refusing to not be excited about all this.

True, it could eventually all turn into yet another steaming heap. But for now, I'm loving feeling a bit like a kid on Christmas Eve who's spotted a bike-shaped present stashed behind the tree.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on October 18, 2018, 10:50:48 AM
Get excited, why not.

He's ruled Micah out as he's not fit. Surprisingly.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Monty on October 18, 2018, 10:53:06 AM
I'm hopeful, looking forward to us playing differently, and excited should it work.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on October 18, 2018, 11:00:39 AM
Last time I was so excited about a new Villa manager was when Big Fat Ron joined.  And his first game, away at Hillsborough, was one of the best away days I’ve been to. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on October 18, 2018, 11:00:48 AM
Quote from: four fornicholl on October 17, 2018, 06:40:46 PM
Quote from: brian green on October 17, 2018, 04:55:08 PM
Bit pissed but FWIIW sticking your finger sharply up your dog's arse when you put it in the starting traps is a sure way of guaranteeing it hits the lid (flies out of the traps).
Round my way,they stick matchsticks up trail hound dogs arses to make them take a shit before racing so they don't stop halfway round!


I think it was David Baddiel who told a story on stage once regarding his cat keeping him awake all night tearing around the house screeching as it was 'on heat'. He reckoned his vet had suggested he 'serviced his cat's needs' by pleasuring it with a cotton wool bud. Which led to Baddiel wondering if zoo keepers did the same to lions and tigers using those big cotton wool bud looking things ITV's 'Gladiators' and contestants used to twat each other with.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on October 18, 2018, 11:04:17 AM
Quote from: Risso on October 17, 2018, 07:04:02 PM
I feel a bit sorry for Damo now. Even if he discovers a cure for cancer or promotes peace in the Middle East, he's going to be known as Damo the dog-fingerer from now on.

I am surprised my story caused such a response as I had already told it on H&V ages ago without much response. As for the title 'Damo The Dog Fingerer' I suspect if I pitched that idea to Channel 5 I would get my own late night show.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on October 18, 2018, 11:08:01 AM
Quote from: Chico Hamilton III on October 18, 2018, 11:00:39 AM
Last time I was so excited about a new Villa manager was when Big Fat Ron joined.  And his first game, away at Hillsborough, was one of the best away days I’ve been to.

I remember being very excited travelling on the coach to Hillsborough for that game and obviously delighted on the way back. I also remember the excitement of being at SGT's first game at Ipswich. I had just left school and had previously only gone to away games in the Midlands. My Dad took myself, H&V's Nev and another mate of ours down there as he was working in the area at the time. We hung around the away coach afterwards waiting to see the players and got to met SGT.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on October 18, 2018, 11:22:37 AM
Quote from: Damo70 on October 18, 2018, 11:08:01 AM
Quote from: Chico Hamilton III on October 18, 2018, 11:00:39 AM
Last time I was so excited about a new Villa manager was when Big Fat Ron joined.  And his first game, away at Hillsborough, was one of the best away days I’ve been to.

I remember being very excited travelling on the coach to Hillsborough for that game and obviously delighted on the way back. I also remember the excitement of being at SGT's first game at Ipswich. I had just left school and had previously only gone to away games in the Midlands. My Dad took myself, H&V's Nev and another mate of ours down there as he was working in the area at the time. We hung around the away coach afterwards waiting to see the players and got to met SGT.

Actually, now I think about it, I was just as excited when O’Neill arrived. His first game - and Randy Lerner’s - at the brand new Emirates was also a fantastic day. It all turned to rats’ cocks in the end but nobody who was there that day could argue that it didn’t feel like the dawning of a new era for Villa. USA, USA .....
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Herman on October 18, 2018, 12:17:49 PM
Quote from: Chico Hamilton III on October 18, 2018, 11:00:39 AM
Last time I was so excited about a new Villa manager was when Big Fat Ron joined.  And his first game, away at Hillsborough, was one of the best away days I’ve been to. 

That was the first away game that I went to. I remember driving back thinking they were all like that. It didn't take long to realize that they weren't
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on October 18, 2018, 12:32:59 PM
Last time I felt this excited was when we went to Millmoor to play Rotherham.  We had just nicked Dave Walsh from Smethwick.  He duly got a hattrick.  The season our 8, 9 and 10 got over 50 goals between them.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mallo on October 18, 2018, 01:05:18 PM
I'm as excited as when O Neill joined and before that SGT. I have a nagging voice in my head which says 'it's still the same players who have been crap for 15-20 games' so I'm not expecting too much early on, but I do hope to see at least us get forward in numbers when we've got the ball. And release it earlier. That's not too much to ask is it?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: darren woolley on October 18, 2018, 01:14:52 PM
Quote from: Herman on October 18, 2018, 12:17:49 PM
Quote from: Chico Hamilton III on October 18, 2018, 11:00:39 AM
Last time I was so excited about a new Villa manager was when Big Fat Ron joined.  And his first game, away at Hillsborough, was one of the best away days I’ve been to. 

That was the first away game that I went to. I remember driving back thinking they were all like that. It didn't take long to realize that they weren't

That was a brilliant day I can't wait for Saturday I can feel the buzz it's going to be electric.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on October 18, 2018, 01:20:30 PM
Quote from: brian green on October 18, 2018, 09:54:28 AM
I think, Drum, that it is a response to the feeling that there has been a total clear out of the clutter of people for want of a better phrase, with a there or thereabouts attitude to their responsibilities.  Like the club having a head of European scouting living in Australia.  The new broom has swept clean.

Oh you're right. The CEO is a football man, the Director of Football knows the game having played it at a decent level. Our coaches know their stuff and I can only imagine the effect it will have. Terry last year had a great influence and now as a coach with all of the others about, it has to rub off.

Nobody will take any shit either, thank god. We do have a talented bunch of players and I'm convinced they will learn the system and play well in it. Or they'll be fucked off somewhere else.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: walsall villain on October 18, 2018, 01:21:12 PM
Quote from: mallo on October 18, 2018, 01:05:18 PM
I'm as excited as when O Neill joined and before that SGT. I have a nagging voice in my head which says 'it's still the same players who have been crap for 15-20 games' so I'm not expecting too much early on, but I do hope to see at least us get forward in numbers when we've got the ball. And release it earlier. That's not too much to ask is it?
That’s why I have gone for a draw as change will probably be slow. I’m hoping to see us break quickly and have 3-5 players in the opposition box when we score. Other teams do this, can’t we try?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on October 18, 2018, 01:40:50 PM
Quote from: mallo on October 18, 2018, 01:05:18 PM
I'm as excited as when O Neill joined and before that SGT. I have a nagging voice in my head which says 'it's still the same players who have been crap for 15-20 games' so I'm not expecting too much early on, but I do hope to see at least us get forward in numbers when we've got the ball. And release it earlier. That's not too much to ask is it?

The dipshit we used to have in charge literally neutralized 75-100m worth of talent. That is some going. There is no way Dean Smith will do the same. I think we will see it immediately tomorrow in patches and it will become more consistent as time goes by. It won't be whack it long, it won't be punts down the wing put in a cross. It will balls through the middle, pushing the opponents back to the 18yd box, it will be more movement. We still may not win because of the defence but I think he'll have given the players freedom to express themselves tomorrow and we'll catch a glimpse of the future.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Richard on October 18, 2018, 01:57:56 PM
Stay calm TV it's still only Thursday !
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on October 18, 2018, 03:21:27 PM
Quote from: Richard on October 18, 2018, 01:57:56 PM
Stay calm TV it's still only Thursday !

There is never a wrong time of the week to called Steve Bruce a dipshit Richard. Never!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: exigo on October 18, 2018, 03:29:27 PM
My only fear is that the expectation of more movement from the players will see us tire with 20 minutes to go. That might take a few more weeks of hard graft in training to get through.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nev on October 18, 2018, 03:46:31 PM
My naturally cynical gait is being serverely tested by all this optimism. I actually feel optimistic regarding the future myself, I just hope it is not unfounded and we are on the cusp of a return to the good times. I'm in no hurry but a positive approach, some half decent football and a team to be proud of would be really, really nice.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on October 18, 2018, 04:12:07 PM
It is not going to happen overnight.  We have been in the pit of misery for too long but with the team we have at the helm we will get better.  Our owners being worth £32 billion between them might come in handy in a pinch.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on October 18, 2018, 04:21:52 PM
Quote from: brian green on October 18, 2018, 04:12:07 PM
It is not going to happen overnight.  We have been in the pit of misery for too long but with the team we have at the helm we will get better.  Our owners being worth £32 billion between them might come in handy in a pinch.

It won't but, as I said a few pages back I reckon a change in tempo and signs of what's to come will be there almost immediately.  The myth pushed by people like Bruce about the time it takes for a team to Gel or how impossible it is to do anything without a pre-season just isn't true.  There are obviously limits to how far the changes can go without transfer but it takes a surprisingly small number of training sessions to make the early changes.  You see it all the time, just look at the difference Sherwood made for example.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on October 18, 2018, 04:36:38 PM
Agree with all of that.  Walking and running in proper sequence
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: nigel on October 18, 2018, 04:41:20 PM
I've only been to the Brentford and Reading home games so far and in both games for the first 20 - 30 minutes we ripped both teams apart. So we can perform at a high tempo level.
The problem was for the remaining 60 - 70 minutes we were pretty awful.
Dean Smith has to get us to keep the high tempo going
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT Villan on October 18, 2018, 05:36:35 PM
So when the tempo starts to drop we send Damo and Brian up and down the touchline waving their middle finger's in the air whilst winking suggestively at the players. Sorted.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT on October 18, 2018, 05:49:21 PM
Quote from: exigo on October 18, 2018, 03:29:27 PM
My only fear is that the expectation of more movement from the players will see us tire with 20 minutes to go. That might take a few more weeks of hard graft in training to get through.

We'll be 4 up by then so it will be fine.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on October 18, 2018, 05:56:36 PM
I tell you what, it's going to be pretty depressing on here when we get turned over 3-0 by Swansea on Saturday!   ;)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on October 18, 2018, 06:17:26 PM
Quote from: Ad@m on October 18, 2018, 05:56:36 PM
I tell you what, it's going to be pretty depressing on here when we get turned over 3-0 by Swansea on Saturday!   ;)

You are Alex Bruce and I claim my 50p
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Louzie0 on October 18, 2018, 08:52:07 PM
Quote from: Ads on October 17, 2018, 11:21:04 PM
Supposedly had Ginge training with us again. I would take him over Jedinak.



If this is James Collins, I am not so keen.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Pvb1968 on October 18, 2018, 09:06:58 PM
This is definitely the point where we sit back and let everything happen from now till the end of the season. There is no guarantee of anything but with the team now in place there is a great chance of being in the top 6 by Christmas and then pushing on. Hope we win 2 of the next 3 and tick along nicely. 10 years of  garbage has drained everyone, time to enjoy.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cheltenhamlion on October 18, 2018, 09:25:56 PM
Where is the pre match presser from Deano then?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Bad English on October 18, 2018, 09:55:29 PM
Quote from: CT Villan on October 18, 2018, 05:36:35 PM
So when the tempo starts to drop we send Damo and Brian up and down the touchline waving their middle finger's in the air whilst winking suggestively at the players. Sorted.
Damo will give them dog's abuse.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 18, 2018, 09:59:14 PM
Quote from: cheltenhamlion on October 18, 2018, 09:25:56 PM
Where is the pre match presser from Deano then?

Done on a Friday for weekend games?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sid1964 on October 19, 2018, 07:03:15 AM
so fans want James Collins back, how short are our memories of this man

1. Did he and Dunne assault and verbally abuse a true legend of the club(Sid) when pissed out of there faces on a team bonding weekend
2. After an awards evening, went into Birmingham and was fighting with bouncers outside a night club
3 He said it was a massive mistake to ever leave West Ham for Aston Villa

But lets have him back and we can all applaud him for doing us a favour! no thanks he is part of the reason this club is in the mess it is now trying to get out of.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: itbrvilla on October 19, 2018, 07:08:55 AM
Quote from: Louzie0 on October 18, 2018, 08:52:07 PM
Quote from: Ads on October 17, 2018, 11:21:04 PM
Supposedly had Ginge training with us again. I would take him over Jedinak.



If this is James Collins, I am not so keen.
My feelings also. He's a ******.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Allan C on October 19, 2018, 08:02:13 AM
Quote from: sid1964 on October 19, 2018, 07:03:15 AM
so fans want James Collins back, how short are our memories of this man

1. Did he and Dunne assault and verbally abuse a true legend of the club(Sid) when pissed out of there faces on a team bonding weekend
2. After an awards evening, went into Birmingham and was fighting with bouncers outside a night club
3 He said it was a massive mistake to ever leave West Ham for Aston Villa

But lets have him back and we can all applaud him for doing us a favour! no thanks he is part of the reason this club is in the mess it is now trying to get out of.
I agree totally with you and think surely there must be a center half at the club in the juniors who could step up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on October 19, 2018, 08:04:57 AM
It was the young Aussie who was fighting the bouncers at Gatecrasher.

I'd take him, we need cover.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kieron on October 19, 2018, 08:07:05 AM
Whilst admittedly not comparable apples for apples, let's also remember that many voiced displeasure about Terry joining us.

If Collins re-joins and helps to stop us conceding stupid goals, that surely, is the bigger picture.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on October 19, 2018, 08:10:05 AM
Quote from: Allan C on October 19, 2018, 08:02:13 AM
Quote from: sid1964 on October 19, 2018, 07:03:15 AM
so fans want James Collins back, how short are our memories of this man

1. Did he and Dunne assault and verbally abuse a true legend of the club(Sid) when pissed out of there faces on a team bonding weekend
2. After an awards evening, went into Birmingham and was fighting with bouncers outside a night club
3 He said it was a massive mistake to ever leave West Ham for Aston Villa

But lets have him back and we can all applaud him for doing us a favour! no thanks he is part of the reason this club is in the mess it is now trying to get out of.
I agree totally with you and think surely there must be a center half at the club in the juniors who could step up.

If there is I'm sure Terry will know about him and Smith will use him

I think his two centre halfs at Brentford were 20 and 21 years old

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: GarTomas on October 19, 2018, 08:39:08 AM
Quote from: Ads on October 19, 2018, 08:04:57 AM
It was the young Aussie who was fighting the bouncers at Gatecrasher.

I'd take him, we need cover.

Yes it was Chris Herd. Later revealed to have a number of issues of his own.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on October 19, 2018, 09:08:11 AM
Quote from: Allan C on October 19, 2018, 08:02:13 AM
Quote from: sid1964 on October 19, 2018, 07:03:15 AM
so fans want James Collins back, how short are our memories of this man

1. Did he and Dunne assault and verbally abuse a true legend of the club(Sid) when pissed out of there faces on a team bonding weekend
2. After an awards evening, went into Birmingham and was fighting with bouncers outside a night club
3 He said it was a massive mistake to ever leave West Ham for Aston Villa

But lets have him back and we can all applaud him for doing us a favour! no thanks he is part of the reason this club is in the mess it is now trying to get out of.
I agree totally with you and think surely there must be a center half at the club in the juniors who could step up.

Don't we have the Euros-winning (former?) England U-19 captain and centre half on the books, who never seems to get a look in?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on October 19, 2018, 09:17:59 AM
Collins left us many years ago. He was in a squad managed by a numpty, surrounded by other numpties.

Our new boss is entitled to make his own choices and should be trusted to do so and judged accordingly. Do you think Collins will fuck up this time?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mouse Potato on October 19, 2018, 09:25:28 AM
Quote fail
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mouse Potato on October 19, 2018, 09:27:27 AM
Quote from: Bad English on October 18, 2018, 09:55:29 PM
Quote from: CT Villan on October 18, 2018, 05:36:35 PM
So when the tempo starts to drop we send Damo and Brian up and down the touchline waving their middle finger's in the air whilst winking suggestively at the players. Sorted.
Damo will give them dog's abuse.
Genius - this made me laugh
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: saunders_heroes on October 19, 2018, 09:44:23 AM
Quote from: sid1964 on October 19, 2018, 07:03:15 AM
so fans want James Collins back, how short are our memories of this man

1. Did he and Dunne assault and verbally abuse a true legend of the club(Sid) when pissed out of there faces on a team bonding weekend
2. After an awards evening, went into Birmingham and was fighting with bouncers outside a night club
3 He said it was a massive mistake to ever leave West Ham for Aston Villa

But lets have him back and we can all applaud him for doing us a favour! no thanks he is part of the reason this club is in the mess it is now trying to get out of.



Big deal. Sign him up, we need him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Gareth on October 19, 2018, 10:10:31 AM
In terms of Collins, wouldn’t have been first choice but we have 14 games until we can use the transfer market again for a centre half & the season will be over if we don’t tighten up at the back so we must get a settled keeper, back 4 and defensive midfielder if Smith plays one - if Collins would help this then get him in
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: achilles on October 19, 2018, 10:23:32 AM
Good grief, I can't understand the fuss, if Dean thinks Collins will do a job for now then it is absolutely a no brainer!
Bloody hell, we have just appointed him, give the guy some slack!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OCD on October 19, 2018, 10:39:41 AM
I can't imagine Collins' hoofball style fitting in with Smith's passing style.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Marlon From Bearwood on October 19, 2018, 10:41:43 AM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on October 18, 2018, 09:59:14 PM
Quote from: cheltenhamlion on October 18, 2018, 09:25:56 PM
Where is the pre match presser from Deano then?

Done on a Friday for weekend games?

Doesn’t look like Smith is following the Bruce routine of Friday morning pressers.

Maybe he’s coaching the team or something?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on October 19, 2018, 10:42:33 AM
It's a no for me, Collins was poor anyway and the last time I saw him he looked ready for retirement. Add to that the fact that he's a bit of a c**t and I just don't see the point. I'd rather we went with Chester and Tuanzebe with Bedeau as cover for now and then revisit in January.  If we'd kept hold of Clark, RDL and Suliman I'd be happy to see out the season with them and what we have. At some point we just need to commit to giving the kids a run of games and see if they can step up.  We've got far too many that are in limbo between being too good for the U23s but not experienced enough to be seniors.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: garyshawsknee on October 19, 2018, 10:50:15 AM
Does anyone know if and when we have the option to recall any of the loanees?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on October 19, 2018, 10:51:55 AM
Jacob Bedeau, give him a geau.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on October 19, 2018, 11:06:00 AM
Quote from: eamonn on October 19, 2018, 10:51:55 AM
Jacob Bedeau, give him a geau.

That's how O'Kelly would say it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on October 19, 2018, 11:06:29 AM
Quote from: garyshawsknee on October 19, 2018, 10:50:15 AM
Does anyone know if and when we have the option to recall any of the loanees?

I don't think you can recall early. Maybe in emergencies, but that'd really only apply to 'keepers, were it the case.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 19, 2018, 11:08:07 AM
Fucking James fucking Collins can get fucking fucked to fucking Fuckland, the fucking fuck that he fucking is.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on October 19, 2018, 11:18:01 AM
I did like the idea of bringing someone like Sulliman or Beadeu though instead of loaning back Tuanzebe. If we lose Chester though, then that's a lot to ask of them, especially now Elphick has gone so I wouldn't be against Collins coming in short term.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dazvillain on October 19, 2018, 11:24:07 AM
Has Dean smith changed the Friday press conference time ? Can’t see any comms on website or anything on YouTube
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: garyshawsknee on October 19, 2018, 11:25:55 AM
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on October 19, 2018, 11:06:29 AM
Quote from: garyshawsknee on October 19, 2018, 10:50:15 AM
Does anyone know if and when we have the option to recall any of the loanees?

I don't think you can recall early. Maybe in emergencies, but that'd really only apply to 'keepers, were it the case.

Cheers for that, we'll have to grin and bear it for a while then.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on October 19, 2018, 11:45:28 AM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on October 19, 2018, 11:08:07 AM
Fucking James fucking Collins fucking can fucking get fucking fucked to fucking Fuckland, the fucking fuck that fucking he fucking is.
Fixed. You missed some opportunities there.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on October 19, 2018, 12:00:39 PM
Quote from: john e on October 19, 2018, 08:10:05 AM
Quote from: Allan C on October 19, 2018, 08:02:13 AM
Quote from: sid1964 on October 19, 2018, 07:03:15 AM
so fans want James Collins back, how short are our memories of this man

1. Did he and Dunne assault and verbally abuse a true legend of the club(Sid) when pissed out of there faces on a team bonding weekend
2. After an awards evening, went into Birmingham and was fighting with bouncers outside a night club
3 He said it was a massive mistake to ever leave West Ham for Aston Villa

But lets have him back and we can all applaud him for doing us a favour! no thanks he is part of the reason this club is in the mess it is now trying to get out of.
I agree totally with you and think surely there must be a center half at the club in the juniors who could step up.

If there is I'm sure Terry will know about him and Smith will use him

I think his two centre halfs at Brentford were 20 and 21 years old
Easah Sulliman is currently out on loan when we have zero cover at cb just about sums up Steve Bruce. Bring him back and give him a go Deano.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on October 19, 2018, 12:17:10 PM
Tomorrows game is officially sold out. Have our expectations ever been higher? Over to you Deano. Good luck!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on October 19, 2018, 12:31:35 PM
Quote from: The Edge on October 19, 2018, 12:17:10 PM
Tomorrows game is officially sold out. Have our expectations ever been higher? Over to you Deano. Good luck!

Yeah, all the best Deano - just the four times as many people as you're used to managing in front of!!!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Diablo on October 19, 2018, 01:15:33 PM
So Chester and Williams played together for Wales in the matches at the Euros, but have Chester and Collins played together many times for Wales? And do they get on? Any Welsh (or just more knowledgable) Villa fans know?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on October 19, 2018, 01:37:21 PM
Collins hates Chester.  Okay I made that up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Monty on October 19, 2018, 02:29:18 PM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on October 19, 2018, 11:08:07 AM
Fucking James fucking Collins can get fucking fucked to fucking Fuckland, the fucking fuck that he fucking is.

Yep.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tomd2103 on October 19, 2018, 02:32:59 PM
Quote from: Diablo on October 19, 2018, 01:15:33 PM
So Chester and Williams played together for Wales in the matches at the Euros, but have Chester and Collins played together many times for Wales? And do they get on? Any Welsh (or just more knowledgable) Villa fans know?

They may not have played together in the sense of a centre back partnership as Wales employed three at the back pretty soon after Chester came into the side and only changed to a four after Collins retired.  If I recall correctly, the only game Collins started at the Euros was the semi final game against Portugal (due to Ben Davies being suspended) and he was part of a back three then with Chester and Ashley Williams.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Diablo on October 19, 2018, 02:42:10 PM
Quote from: tomd2103 on October 19, 2018, 02:32:59 PM
Quote from: Diablo on October 19, 2018, 01:15:33 PM
So Chester and Williams played together for Wales in the matches at the Euros, but have Chester and Collins played together many times for Wales? And do they get on? Any Welsh (or just more knowledgable) Villa fans know?

They may not have played together in the sense of a centre back partnership as Wales employed three at the back pretty soon after Chester came into the side and only changed to a four after Collins retired.  If I recall correctly, the only game Collins started at the Euros was the semi final game against Portugal (due to Ben Davies being suspended) and he was part of a back three then with Chester and Ashley Williams.
Cheers Tom  :-)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Diablo on October 19, 2018, 02:42:47 PM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on October 19, 2018, 01:37:21 PM
Collins hates Chester.  Okay I made that up.
Hahaha! You could have given a reason why he hates him (before confessing) ;-)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on October 19, 2018, 02:48:31 PM
I don’t like Collins and he is nowhere near the quality I want to see in our squad. In an ideal world I’d like to see a good replacement for Terry or one of the kids given a chance.

But I’m generally of a ‘needs must’ type of view and if for the situation right now Smith thinks he can make any sort of positive contribution, whether that be playing or just emergency cover, then I am absolutely fine with that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brend'Watkins on October 19, 2018, 02:58:23 PM
I don't particularly like him either but him or Jedinak at the back? Collins every time.  He's a center half and I don't remember him being too slow and I don't remember him being mistake riddled either.

Jed's a better holding midfielder though.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: clash city rocker on October 19, 2018, 02:59:47 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on October 19, 2018, 02:48:31 PM
I don’t like Collins and he is nowhere near the quality I want to see in our squad. In an ideal world I’d like to see a good replacement for Terry or one of the kids given a chance.

But I’m generally of a ‘needs must’ type of view and if for the situation right now Smith thinks he can make any sort of positive contribution, whether that be playing or just emergency cover, then I am absolutely fine with that.

Just goes to show what Bruce did to us. Negligence springs to mind.Anyway all water under the bridge now. The futures bright. It's claret and blue.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tomd2103 on October 19, 2018, 03:11:01 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on October 19, 2018, 02:48:31 PM
I don’t like Collins and he is nowhere near the quality I want to see in our squad. In an ideal world I’d like to see a good replacement for Terry or one of the kids given a chance.

But I’m generally of a ‘needs must’ type of view and if for the situation right now Smith thinks he can make any sort of positive contribution, whether that be playing or just emergency cover, then I am absolutely fine with that.

Exactly where I am Chris.  We of course have no idea what kind of physical state he is in or whether he is even going to get to the point where he will even be able to reach the point where he is in a state to play. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on October 19, 2018, 03:16:33 PM
What is Richard Dunne doing?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on October 19, 2018, 03:42:25 PM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on October 19, 2018, 03:16:33 PM
What is Richard Dunne doing?

At this time of day, afternoon tea I would guess.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villabear on October 19, 2018, 03:53:18 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on October 19, 2018, 03:42:25 PM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on October 19, 2018, 03:16:33 PM
What is Richard Dunne doing?

At this time of day, afternoon tea I would guess.

Or sleeping off an afternoon session (probably/allegedly)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Diablo on October 19, 2018, 05:42:09 PM
Quote from: Marlon From Bearwood on October 19, 2018, 10:41:43 AM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on October 18, 2018, 09:59:14 PM
Quote from: cheltenhamlion on October 18, 2018, 09:25:56 PM
Where is the pre match presser from Deano then?

Done on a Friday for weekend games?

Doesn’t look like Smith is following the Bruce routine of Friday morning pressers.

Maybe he’s coaching the team or something?
I wonder if he's decided to cancel it and use the time more effectively?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cheltenhamlion on October 19, 2018, 05:47:45 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on October 19, 2018, 03:42:25 PM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on October 19, 2018, 03:16:33 PM
What is Richard Dunne doing?

At this time of day, afternoon tea I would guess.

Opening a new box of fags, whilst finishing his 10th can of Guinness and playing FIFA 2009.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on October 19, 2018, 06:07:37 PM
Sounds enticing
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Diablo on October 19, 2018, 07:16:18 PM
Quote from: cheltenhamlion on October 19, 2018, 05:47:45 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on October 19, 2018, 03:42:25 PM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on October 19, 2018, 03:16:33 PM
What is Richard Dunne doing?

At this time of day, afternoon tea I would guess.

Opening a new box of fags, whilst finishing his 10th can of Guinness and playing FIFA 2009.
Surely that's date night?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on October 19, 2018, 07:39:07 PM
Evil is to him who evil thinks.  He is probably digging some old lady's garden.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cheltenhamlion on October 19, 2018, 08:34:29 PM
Quote from: brian green on October 19, 2018, 07:39:07 PM
Evil is to him who evil thinks.  He is probably digging some old lady's garden.

Nah. I am watching Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VillaLoyal on October 20, 2018, 06:05:41 PM
Just listened to his first post match interviews. My goodness me, What a contrast to the "Smell the Hot Dogs or Honest Bunch of Lads" we have been accustomed to over the previous depressing years.

Dean Smith actual talked and communicated tactics and covered "Second phase deliveries, overloads, setting traps, fitness levels" all in one minute.  8)

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on October 20, 2018, 07:30:13 PM
Quote from: VillaLoyal on October 20, 2018, 06:05:41 PM
Just listened to his first post match interviews. My goodness me, What a contrast to the "Smell the Hot Dogs or Honest Bunch of Lads" we have been accustomed to over the previous depressing years.

Dean Smith actual talked and communicated tactics and covered "Second phase deliveries, overloads, setting traps, fitness levels" all in one minute.  8)



It'll never catch on.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OCD on October 20, 2018, 11:00:57 PM
"They're very coachable"...sure - when you coach them!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: jwarry on October 20, 2018, 11:07:50 PM
He must think Bruce was a total numpty surely
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on October 20, 2018, 11:43:49 PM
It must have been a very proud moment for this man walking out in front of a full bouncing Villa Park. This was a dream come true for Dean and his family must have been delighted and apprehensive at the same time so I am pleased he is off to a winning start. Long may it continue.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: West Derby Villan on October 20, 2018, 11:45:44 PM
Quote from: OCD on October 20, 2018, 11:00:57 PM
"They're very coachable"...sure - when you coach them!

When the head coach fancies coaching them !
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on October 20, 2018, 11:52:37 PM
A nice bonus of it being Smith rather than Henry who got the gig, is that when Bruce finally resurfaces, he won't be able to blather on to his mates in the press about how he lost his job to somebody with next to no coaching experience.  Smith is twice the coach Bruce is, he just hasn't had the big stage to prove it, until now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villan from luton on October 20, 2018, 11:58:42 PM
Bruce defence will be lots of fans never accepted me because of who I managed before. That is total nonsense. I think he has been given more leeway than lots of managers. I totally accept David Moyes saying he is one of the best managers around (apologies for my bollox), I still can't get over he pist off for a break in the international games. Somehow don't imagine Smith doing that. The one thing that finished me off was his Forriesti comment before sheff wed game. How could he have not known he was suspended
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tomd2103 on October 21, 2018, 12:24:58 AM
From his interviews, it is clear that Dean Smith is a coach who does a lot of consideration when it comes to tactics and approaches.  It's going to be interesting to see how he develops a style of play over the next few months. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dave P on October 21, 2018, 07:26:21 AM
Quote from: Risso on October 20, 2018, 11:52:37 PM
A nice bonus of it being Smith rather than Henry who got the gig

Side note, Monaco lost to Strasbourg yesterday.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: jwarry on October 21, 2018, 08:13:03 AM
Quote from: Dave P on October 21, 2018, 07:26:21 AM
Quote from: Risso on October 20, 2018, 11:52:37 PM
A nice bonus of it being Smith rather than Henry who got the gig

Side note, Monaco lost to Strasbourg yesterday.


I have now listened to all his post match comments and it’s ptrety clear we got the right man. For the first time in near in 10 years I’m excited about the future. Come on Dean let’s get Villa back where it belongs
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on October 21, 2018, 10:57:17 AM
totally but it's going to be a long and narrow way
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on October 21, 2018, 11:43:24 AM
Quote from: villan from luton on October 20, 2018, 11:58:42 PM
Bruce defence will be lots of fans never accepted me because of who I managed before. That is total nonsense. I think he has been given more leeway than lots of managers. I totally accept David Moyes saying he is one of the best managers around (apologies for my bollox), I still can't get over he pist off for a break in the international games. Somehow don't imagine Smith doing that. The one thing that finished me off was his Forriesti comment before sheff wed game. How could he have not known he was suspended
Re: the Forestieri gaff? I'm convinced that by that time Bruce was actually intent on getting the push and walking away with his 1.7 million pay off. Fucking ******.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on October 21, 2018, 12:28:05 PM
What was all that witchcraft Smith was mentioning in his post match comments? It’ll never catch on!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Monty on October 21, 2018, 12:39:46 PM
Quote from: Risso on October 21, 2018, 12:28:05 PM
What was all that witchcraft Smith was mentioning in his post match comments? It’ll never catch on!

Christ, I just watched that for the first time and it's almost like he had an actual plan.

Actually, what I really liked is that he has a long term plan for how we're going to improve the football - off the ball first, develop possession over more time. He's planning for having plans on the future. Is this what having a manager's like?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 21, 2018, 01:15:18 PM
He made attacking substitutions, and we weren't even losing. At one-nil up we were still trying to score another goal. We had a right-back at right-back, a left-back at left-back and two centre-halves in the middle of defence.

It's like we were playing a different sport.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on October 21, 2018, 01:17:40 PM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on October 21, 2018, 01:15:18 PM
He made attacking substitutions, and we weren't even losing. At one-nil up we were still trying to score another goal. We had a right-back at right-back, a left-back at left-back and two centre-halves in the middle of defence.

It's like we were playing a different sport.

I commented to the guy say next to me that when Deano bright Kodjia on with 30 minutes left, had Bruce still been in charge it would've been Whelan on for Abraham!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 21, 2018, 01:19:22 PM
It's so refreshing. Give the oppostion something to worry about, and they can't just throw everyone forward.

If that had been Bruce, Swansea would have been camped in our half for the last twenty minutes.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on October 21, 2018, 01:21:47 PM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on October 21, 2018, 01:19:22 PM
It's so refreshing. Give the oppostion something to worry about, and they can't just throw everyone forward.

If that had been Bruce, Swansea would have been camped in our half for the last 82 minutes.

FTFY
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ktvillan on October 21, 2018, 01:36:23 PM
Quote from: Risso on October 20, 2018, 11:52:37 PM
A nice bonus of it being Smith rather than Henry who got the gig, is that when Bruce finally resurfaces, he won't be able to blather on to his mates in the press about how he lost his job to somebody with next to no coaching experience.  Smith is twice the coach Bruce is, he just hasn't had the big stage to prove it, until now.

I'm twice the coach Bruce is and so's my wife.  Smith must be at least 10 times better.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on October 21, 2018, 01:36:27 PM
Is there a link to the post match interview?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on October 21, 2018, 01:37:32 PM
Quote from: Ads on October 21, 2018, 01:36:27 PM
Is there a link to the post match interview?

https://twitter.com/avfcofficial/status/1053684646737780736?s=12
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on October 21, 2018, 01:45:40 PM
Thank you.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VillaAlways on October 21, 2018, 01:49:37 PM
This is a bit more in depth

https://audioboom.com/posts/7053458-dean-smith-on-the-1-0-win-against-swansea
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on October 21, 2018, 02:00:12 PM
Quote from: Monty on October 21, 2018, 12:39:46 PM
Quote from: Risso on October 21, 2018, 12:28:05 PM
What was all that witchcraft Smith was mentioning in his post match comments? It’ll never catch on!

Christ, I just watched that for the first time and it's almost like he had an actual plan.

Actually, what I really liked is that he has a long term plan for how we're going to improve the football - off the ball first, develop possession over more time. He's planning for having plans on the future. Is this what having a manager's like?


Smith came out with comments that made him sound like an insightful football coach. I could have stood there and spouted the bland football cliches Bruce used to come out with week after week.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on October 21, 2018, 02:31:45 PM
It made a refreshing change to “All I ask of them is to roll up their sleeves”.

Signed...Fucking dinosaur
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VillaAlways on October 21, 2018, 02:36:32 PM
Or “ that little bit of magic “
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on October 21, 2018, 03:02:29 PM
Quote from: VillaAlways on October 21, 2018, 02:36:32 PM
Or “ that little bit of magic “

A TV screen smashing comment if ever there was one.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on October 21, 2018, 04:08:49 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on October 21, 2018, 03:02:29 PM
Quote from: VillaAlways on October 21, 2018, 02:36:32 PM
Or “ that little bit of magic “

A TV screen smashing comment if ever there was one.

Yeah, but that's the Championship for ya!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 21, 2018, 04:22:53 PM
What is this "plan" he speaks of?

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dp-O2WJWoAA0uEb.png)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on October 21, 2018, 04:40:08 PM
Bruce cliche bingo.

‘Some of them didn’t put their boots on.’

‘I made a mistake today not freshening it up.’  Times 14.

‘There or there or there or thereabouts.’  Repeated over 400 times.

‘The ti’kly bit.’

‘We’ve got the makings of a really decent team.’  Fifteen times a season.

‘After a week it’s a crisis and off wi’ me head.’

‘Forestieri’s a real handful.’  At each weekly press conference.

‘I lost 4, 5, 6, 10 of the team that started the play off final.’

‘The owners have breathed new life in’o the club.’

‘We keep a clean sheet against a very decent Rotherham team and I don’t know worri’m doin.’
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: jwarry on October 22, 2018, 10:09:18 AM
Interesting piece in The Times this morning.  Again all encouraging stuff!

"Dean Smith claimed that John Terry had already made his mark as a coach by helping to orchestrate a clean sheet in their first game together at Aston Villa.

Tammy Abraham’s goal was enough to give the new head coach a 1-0 winning start to his reign, against Swansea City on an emotional day when Villa Park paid tribute to Sir Doug Ellis, the former chairman who died on October 11.

But the former Walsall and Brentford manager was quick to share the praise with Terry, a surprise appointment as one of two assistant managers alongside Richard O’Kelly, Smith’s trusted right-hand man.

“He’s had a big input as has Richard O’Kelly,” Smith said. “We’ve worked hard on defending without the ball and defending our penalty box.  JT has been at the top level so he knows is stuff.  He coaches. He passes on tips.

"We have worked very well together and hopefully that will continue.  We discussed it as a coaching team and Richard will take possession and the forwards and JT will break off with the defenders.  Myself and John have done some really good work with the defensive system.  I'm just glad we got the clean sheet and the win."

Smith's attempts to manoeuvre his boyhood club into promotion contention continue tomorrow away to Norwich.  He gradually plansto impose his own style on Bruce's former squad.

Smith knows that Jack Grealish will be a key figure and is looking for more goals, assists and defensive discipline from him.  "He is outstanding" Smith said, "He probably saw me coming and thought 'Brentford are a total footballing team'.  And yet all the work this week has been without the ball.  He has seen a different side to me.  But that's part of his game that needs to get better.  I like the fact he was looking at getting into the penalty box, which is something he can improve upon.  He doesn't have the goals and assists someone of his talent should have - that is for me and the coaching staff to help him work on.  I invite players to ask questions and certainly asks questions.  He has that desire to get better"
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on October 22, 2018, 10:11:59 AM
Quote from: jwarry on October 22, 2018, 10:09:18 AM
Interesting piece in The Times this morning.  Again all encouraging stuff!

"Dean Smith claimed that John Terry had already made his mark as a coach by helping to orchestrate a clean sheet in their first game together at Aston Villa.

Tammy Abraham’s goal was enough to give the new head coach a 1-0 winning start to his reign, against Swansea City on an emotional day when Villa Park paid tribute to Sir Doug Ellis, the former chairman who died on October 11.

But the former Walsall and Brentford manager was quick to share the praise with Terry, a surprise appointment as one of two assistant managers alongside Richard O’Kelly, Smith’s trusted right-hand man.

“He’s had a big input as has Richard O’Kelly,” Smith said. “We’ve worked hard on defending without the ball and defending our penalty box.  JT has been at the top level so he knows is stuff.  He coaches. He passes on tips.

"We have worked very well together and hopefully that will continue.  We discussed it as a coaching team and Richard will take possession and the forwards and JT will break off with the defenders.  Myself and John have done some really good work with the defensive system.  I'm just glad we got the clean sheet and the win."

Smith's attempts to manoeuvre his boyhood club into promotion contention continue tomorrow away to Norwich.  He gradually plansto impose his own style on Bruce's former squad.

Smith knows that Jack Grealish will be a key figure and is looking for more goals, assists and defensive discipline from him.  "He is outstanding" Smith said, "He probably saw me coming and thought 'Brentford are a total footballing team'.  And yet all the work this week has been without the ball.  He has seen a different side to me.  But that's part of his game that needs to get better.  I like the fact he was looking at getting into the penalty box, which is something he can improve upon.  He doesn't have the goals and assists someone of his talent should have - that is for me and the coaching staff to help him work on.  I invite players to ask questions and certainly asks questions.  He has that desire to get better"

Fucking hell, it's like thinks about his job!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: UK Redsox on October 22, 2018, 10:39:01 AM
Who was the bloke on the bench who was handling most of the clipboard duties, including conveying positional changes to the subs before they came on ?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on October 22, 2018, 11:06:06 AM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on October 21, 2018, 04:40:08 PM
Bruce cliche bingo.

‘Some of them didn’t put their boots on.’

‘I made a mistake today not freshening it up.’  Times 14.

‘There or there or there or thereabouts.’  Repeated over 400 times.

‘The ti’kly bit.’

‘We’ve got the makings of a really decent team.’  Fifteen times a season.

‘After a week it’s a crisis and off wi’ me head.’

‘Forestieri’s a real handful.’  At each weekly press conference.

‘I lost 4, 5, 6, 10 of the team that started the play off final.’

‘The owners have breathed new life in’o the club.’

‘We keep a clean sheet against a very decent Rotherham team and I don’t know worri’m doin.’
Why are you posting this same old joke 3 weeks after he has been sacked? 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on October 22, 2018, 11:09:39 AM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on October 22, 2018, 10:11:59 AM
Fucking hell, it's like thinks about his job!
Yes but when you know football inside out and you have 50 promotions under your belt there is no need to think. You will always be there or thereabout with a bit of magic now and then....oh and  rolling your sleeves up etc etc.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on October 22, 2018, 11:14:05 AM
Quote from: olaftab on October 22, 2018, 11:09:39 AM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on October 22, 2018, 10:11:59 AM
Fucking hell, it's like thinks about his job!
Yes but when you know football inside out and you have 50 promotions under your belt there is no need to think. You will always be there or thereabout with a bit of magic now and then....oh and  rolling your sleeves up etc etc.

And you can employ three of your mates to ensure that everyone has their boots on.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on October 22, 2018, 01:07:07 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on October 22, 2018, 11:06:06 AM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on October 21, 2018, 04:40:08 PM
Bruce cliche bingo.

‘Some of them didn’t put their boots on.’

‘I made a mistake today not freshening it up.’  Times 14.

‘There or there or there or thereabouts.’  Repeated over 400 times.

‘The ti’kly bit.’

‘We’ve got the makings of a really decent team.’  Fifteen times a season.

‘After a week it’s a crisis and off wi’ me head.’

‘Forestieri’s a real handful.’  At each weekly press conference.

‘I lost 4, 5, 6, 10 of the team that started the play off final.’

‘The owners have breathed new life in’o the club.’

‘We keep a clean sheet against a very decent Rotherham team and I don’t know worri’m doin.’
Why are you posting this same old joke 3 weeks after he has been sacked?

To piss you off royally.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on October 22, 2018, 01:09:04 PM
Although it sounds amazing to us, him talking about doing coaching without the ball is quite normal for football coaches of a certain quality.  But something we have been lacking for years and years. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TheMalandro on October 22, 2018, 01:10:59 PM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on October 22, 2018, 01:07:07 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on October 22, 2018, 11:06:06 AM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on October 21, 2018, 04:40:08 PM
Bruce cliche bingo.

‘Some of them didn’t put their boots on.’

‘I made a mistake today not freshening it up.’  Times 14.

‘There or there or there or thereabouts.’  Repeated over 400 times.

‘The ti’kly bit.’

‘We’ve got the makings of a really decent team.’  Fifteen times a season.

‘After a week it’s a crisis and off wi’ me head.’

‘Forestieri’s a real handful.’  At each weekly press conference.

‘I lost 4, 5, 6, 10 of the team that started the play off final.’

‘The owners have breathed new life in’o the club.’

‘We keep a clean sheet against a very decent Rotherham team and I don’t know worri’m doin.’
Why are you posting this same old joke 3 weeks after he has been sacked?

To piss you off royally.

and it's funny
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on October 22, 2018, 01:17:02 PM
And serves to highlight the difference between "pull wor boots up" and proper coaching.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on October 22, 2018, 02:51:04 PM
It seems to me that whenever there is a managerial change, the new guy doesn't alter the lineup that much in his first game. Whether that's to see what the ones in the shirt can do, because they haven't had time for wholesale change, because nobody else is better or just because they can't lose by doing it I don't know.

What I do know is that Smith in one post-match interview has given more insight and shown more tactical nous than our last bloke did in 2 years.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: andyh on October 22, 2018, 02:56:36 PM
I still want to know what ‘setting traps’ means!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on October 22, 2018, 02:59:16 PM
Quote from: andyh on October 22, 2018, 02:56:36 PM
I still want to know what ‘setting traps’ means!
I presume it means in the way they close down, cutting off certain outlets and pushing defenders to make mistakes.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on October 22, 2018, 03:03:39 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on October 22, 2018, 02:59:16 PM
Quote from: andyh on October 22, 2018, 02:56:36 PM
I still want to know what ‘setting traps’ means!
I presume it means in the way they close down, cutting off certain outlets and pushing defenders to make mistakes.
What's all this? After years of bruceball this is making my brain hurt
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tomd2103 on October 22, 2018, 03:04:40 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on October 22, 2018, 02:59:16 PM
Quote from: andyh on October 22, 2018, 02:56:36 PM
I still want to know what ‘setting traps’ means!
I presume it means in the way they close down, cutting off certain outlets and pushing defenders to make mistakes.

Yep.  Usually involves holding off until the ball goes into a particular player or area and then pressing quickly.  Often happens when the opposition play out from the back into midfield.   
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on October 22, 2018, 03:59:47 PM
Quote from: andyh on October 22, 2018, 02:56:36 PM
I still want to know what ‘setting traps’ means!

I believe they used fishing nets versus goal nets and dribbled around activated bear traps during their first training session. Any wrong move and we’ll...it’s a leg injury.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on October 22, 2018, 04:06:47 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on October 22, 2018, 11:14:05 AM
Quote from: olaftab on October 22, 2018, 11:09:39 AM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on October 22, 2018, 10:11:59 AM
Fucking hell, it's like thinks about his job!
Yes but when you know football inside out and you have 50 promotions under your belt there is no need to think. You will always be there or thereabout with a bit of magic now and then....oh and  rolling your sleeves up etc etc.

And you can employ three of your mates to ensure that everyone has their boots on.

Sleeves, Boots and Laces was Bruce's adaptation of Bibs and Cones.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Hookeysmith on October 22, 2018, 04:06:59 PM
Quote
But that's part of his game that needs to get better.  I like the fact he was looking at getting into the penalty box, which is something he can improve upon.  He doesn't have the goals and assists someone of his talent should have - that is for me and the coaching staff to help him work on.  I invite players to ask questions and certainly asks questions.  He has that desire to get better"

I think I felt a bit of a twitch  :D

I like the fact he was taken off as well - as he needed to be. Once he realises he is no longer just allowed to go out there and do what he wants the better for him and for us.

DS is 100% correct - his talent is much better suited in and around the box where he could terrify defenders to touch him
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kieron on October 22, 2018, 04:07:03 PM
New Deano interview.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: jwarry on October 22, 2018, 04:14:34 PM
Quote from: Hookeysmith on October 22, 2018, 04:06:59 PM
Quote
But that's part of his game that needs to get better.  I like the fact he was looking at getting into the penalty box, which is something he can improve upon.  He doesn't have the goals and assists someone of his talent should have - that is for me and the coaching staff to help him work on.  I invite players to ask questions and certainly asks questions.  He has that desire to get better"

I think I felt a bit of a twitch  :D

I like the fact he was taken off as well - as he needed to be. Once he realises he is no longer just allowed to go out there and do what he wants the better for him and for us.

DS is 100% correct - his talent is much better suited in and around the box where he could terrify defenders to touch him

Encouraging that Jack's asking questions as well.  Even the best players in the world need coaching and they become the best players because they listen
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on October 22, 2018, 04:23:11 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on October 22, 2018, 02:59:16 PM
Quote from: andyh on October 22, 2018, 02:56:36 PM
I still want to know what ‘setting traps’ means!
I presume it means in the way they close down, cutting off certain outlets and pushing defenders to make mistakes.

I was amazed how often a Swansea ball carrier would be engulfed by three claret and blue shirts. For years now I've watched it happen to us time and again, but I'd always put it down to our shitness rather than any kind of sneaky underhanded coherent "coaching" on the part of the opposition. Who knew, eh!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Iamkmkm on October 22, 2018, 04:31:36 PM
The only negative about him as that his voice reminds me of someone i hate.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on October 22, 2018, 05:06:23 PM
The best players in the world never want to stop learning, work the hardest in training. Love him or hate him, Ronaldo is the epitome of that and also works overtime in keeping himself in the best possible shape. If Jack wants to be the best he can be he needs to listen a lot, work as hard as possible and develop all aspects of his game.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on October 22, 2018, 05:28:07 PM
Quote from: Risso on October 22, 2018, 01:17:02 PM
And serves to highlight the difference between "pull wor boots up" and proper coaching.

Bruce wasn't the coach though he was the manager


I just glad we have a proper footballing set up now that doesn't rely on one man who didnt even turn up for training a lot of the time

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on October 22, 2018, 08:09:08 PM
Quote from: john e on October 22, 2018, 05:28:07 PM
Quote from: Risso on October 22, 2018, 01:17:02 PM
And serves to highlight the difference between "pull wor boots up" and proper coaching.

Bruce wasn't the coach though he was the manager


I just glad we have a proper footballing set up now that doesn't rely on one man who didnt even turn up for training a lot of the time
This.
It's a massively important point.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Hookeysmith on October 22, 2018, 09:17:43 PM
I'm no expert on tactics etc so I find it fascinating listening to him discuss game plans and team strategy.

A proper technical football coach. How refreshing
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on October 22, 2018, 11:46:26 PM
Quote from: The Edge on October 22, 2018, 08:09:08 PM
Quote from: john e on October 22, 2018, 05:28:07 PM
Quote from: Risso on October 22, 2018, 01:17:02 PM
And serves to highlight the difference between "pull wor boots up" and proper coaching.

Bruce wasn't the coach though he was the manager


I just glad we have a proper footballing set up now that doesn't rely on one man who didnt even turn up for training a lot of the time
This.
It's a massively important point.

Yet 'the manager' couldn't sort it out.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on October 23, 2018, 11:15:40 AM
Don't know if it's the right thread but Mark Walters, once of this parish, is on Talksport after 12 noon.

Manure fans at the moment are wanting Rooney back in the Premier League after he's been playing well in MLS. Slight difference!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on October 23, 2018, 11:23:07 AM
Quote from: Behind Bluenose Lines on October 23, 2018, 11:15:40 AM
Don't know if it's the right thread but Mark Walters, once of this parish, is on Talksport after 12 noon.

Manure fans at the moment are wanting Rooney back in the Premier League after he's been playing well in MLS. Slight difference!


Walters has an autobiography out so I am guessing he is plugging that.

As for Rooney, I think they way that the Manure fans feel about Mourinho they would have Shrek back as player manager in preference to 'the special one'.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Gregorys Boy on October 23, 2018, 12:10:39 PM
Pleased with the appointment.  He should have us playing decent football and bring some fresh ideas to the table.  Hopefully he should improve the defence too.  Think he was probably as good as we could get at the moment.  Play-offs is a realistic target for sure.  Who knows maybe even top two ;)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on October 23, 2018, 01:43:38 PM
Quote from: Drummond on October 22, 2018, 11:46:26 PM
Quote from: The Edge on October 22, 2018, 08:09:08 PM
Quote from: john e on October 22, 2018, 05:28:07 PM
Quote from: Risso on October 22, 2018, 01:17:02 PM
And serves to highlight the difference between "pull wor boots up" and proper coaching.

Bruce wasn't the coach though he was the manager


I just glad we have a proper footballing set up now that doesn't rely on one man who didnt even turn up for training a lot of the time
This.
It's a massively important point.

Yet 'the manager' couldn't sort it out.
Agree the title is irrelevant the difference is you have a bloke who sees the team performance as his responsibility and does something about it and another who was too thick and lazy to bother.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on October 23, 2018, 01:47:16 PM
Agreed CL. Bruce played for the sack. Got what he wanted but then, so did we. Win win.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on October 23, 2018, 09:57:33 PM
Smith has got his work cut out to keep this pile of crap out of the bottom six never mind a play off spot - massive rebuild required - starting at the back - especially keeper. Being realistic this season  is all about rebuilding the squad  - Bruce has left us in a right state -




Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 23, 2018, 09:58:11 PM
Onwards and upwards.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on October 23, 2018, 10:22:55 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on October 23, 2018, 09:57:33 PM
Smith has got his work cut out to keep this pile of crap out of the bottom six never mind a play off spot - massive rebuild required - starting at the back - especially keeper. Being realistic this season  is all about rebuilding the squad  - Bruce has left us in a right state -

I disagree.  We've got 7 or 8 players would would walk in to any team in the league.  The other 3/4 are unfortunately all in our defence, but if we go with the attitude of scoring more than the opposition, once Deano's had time to work with them a bit we should be smashing this league and it'll be fun doing it.

It just comes down to whether we've wasted too much time on Bruce this season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on October 23, 2018, 10:25:30 PM
I don't see us smashing anyone in this league tbh. We're just another mediocre team in the middle of the table as it stands and really our performances for pretty much the whole season have reflected that.

I do agree if our attacking players could actually stay fit then potentially it's a forward line that could be effective under the Smith style. Have we even started Adomah-Abraham-Bolaise once this season? For me it's our best option in attacking going forward although two went off injured tonight so no idea when we'll actually see it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: andyh on October 23, 2018, 10:29:52 PM
In his post match presser, I think Deano was/is being very respectful to the club, Bruce  and the players.
I am sure he would like to be honest and admit the fitness levels are piss poor and the players are a million miles away from where he would want them to be, but he won’t ‘diss’ the previous manager.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Pvb1968 on October 23, 2018, 10:31:13 PM
Dean smith will get a tune out of this squad, we need to be in or very near the play off spots after Christmas.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: curiousorange on October 23, 2018, 10:32:30 PM
The one saving grace is that I think we can and will get better. Defeats hurt, especially in the shoulder-shrugging manner of the one tonight, but Smith has to undo at least six months of bad habits and making do. He has a confirmed matchwinner in Grealish that he needs to turn around, and a medium-term grace period because of the paucity of quality at the back. A lot of managers, himself included, have had to work with far less.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on October 23, 2018, 10:34:33 PM
Poor substitution tonight the Hogan one.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on October 23, 2018, 10:35:21 PM
Just look at the attacking options at our disposal:

Abraham - scored 20 goals a season in this league
Hogan - scoring goals for fun at Brentford under Smith before we signed him
Kodjia - scored 20 goals a season in this league
McCormack - scored 20 goals a season in this league
Grealish - Spurs were willing to punt £25m on him
Hourihane - Barnsley's captain when we signed him
Lansbury - Forest's captain when we signed him
McGinn - looks quality at this level
Bolasie - Prem player
Adomah - scored for fun in the first half of last season
El Ghazi - playing in the Champions League for Ajax not that long ago

If we could enter two teams in the league we would be finishing top 2 with that lot!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy65 on October 23, 2018, 10:38:17 PM
Quote from: Ad@m on October 23, 2018, 10:22:55 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on October 23, 2018, 09:57:33 PM
Smith has got his work cut out to keep this pile of crap out of the bottom six never mind a play off spot - massive rebuild required - starting at the back - especially keeper. Being realistic this season  is all about rebuilding the squad  - Bruce has left us in a right state -

I disagree.  We've got 7 or 8 players would would walk in to any team in the league.  The other 3/4 are unfortunately all in our defence, but if we go with the attitude of scoring more than the opposition, once Deano's had time to work with them a bit we should be smashing this league and it'll be fun doing it.

It just comes down to whether we've wasted too much time on Bruce this season.

Which 7 or 8?  I don’t see it

Bruce has just signed the so called decent players from other clubs without any thought as to how they fit together. I never want to see a midfield of Whelan, Hourihane and Grealish again

You look at Brentford and tonight Norwich and they have some excellent players. Most of whom I have never heard of

We just lack real quality across the whole squad
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: curiousorange on October 23, 2018, 10:47:25 PM
I don't agree that we lack quality. I think the problem is that we bought players who at one time were quality. I remember being really chuffed that we'd signed Jedinak because our midfield had no bite, but the player we got was more or less ready to be put out to pasture. Bruce's transfer policy was a little bit like opting for a takeaway when you should be filling the freezer - expensive, unwise and only able to fill a hole for a brief amount of time.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on October 23, 2018, 10:51:19 PM
Quote from: curiousorange on October 23, 2018, 10:47:25 PM
I don't agree that we lack quality. I think the problem is that we bought players who at one time were quality. I remember being really chuffed that we'd signed Jedinak because our midfield had no bite, but the player we got was more or less ready to be put out to pasture. Bruce's transfer policy was a little bit like opting for a takeaway when you should be filling the freezer - expensive, unwise and only able to fill a hole for a brief amount of time.

Or it could be simply that Bruce bought good players but did fuck all coaching with them and they've gone backwards.

But good players don't stop being good players overnight.  Now we've got an actual coaching set up in place I'm convinced we'll start to see the best of them - you never know, we may actually see a player we've signed improve while he's at the club!!!!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 23, 2018, 10:53:46 PM
Chester, Whelan, Jedinak, Grealish, Hourihane, McGinn, Adomah, El Ghazi, Bolasie, Kodjia and Abraham would all walk into most teams in the division.

Literally, in the case of Whelan.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: curiousorange on October 23, 2018, 10:57:06 PM
Whelan, Jedi and Hutton are gone - there's no chance of them getting back to the players they were (if they were players of note anyway). Partly that's age, partly that's shitty coaching and being used as utility men. I can totally see the logic of signing them: Bruce was probably told he had to get promoted for a myriad of reasons, in addition to his pride at being the "promotion specialist", but they were 1 season max players, like Terry ended up as, and are past their sell-by date.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Iamkmkm on October 23, 2018, 10:58:44 PM
Smith out
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Richard on October 23, 2018, 11:00:45 PM
Quote from: Iamkmkm on October 23, 2018, 10:58:44 PM
Smith out

Assume you're joking mate ?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villadelph on October 23, 2018, 11:01:49 PM
Quote from: Pvb1968 on October 23, 2018, 10:31:13 PM
Dean smith will get a tune out of this squad, we need to be in or very near the play off spots after Christmas.


so there or thereabouts then?

In all seriousness, I think Dean will learn from tonight. Who he can trust, who "gets it", who puts in the work. Some players didn't check a single box tonight.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on October 23, 2018, 11:08:15 PM
Can have all the attacking players but if you don't have the structure/grit at the back like we did last season we won't seriously challenge.

This year feels too much like 16/17 to me. The wrong manager in place at the start of the season, on paper a decent set of attacking options but our defence and midfield weren't good enough and we were mid table for the vast majority of that season.

Wouldn't shock me if this year is similar.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The_ads on October 23, 2018, 11:17:28 PM
I’ll tell you how bad it is at the moment. Gary Gardner has gone on loan to that lot and has been a revelation
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on October 23, 2018, 11:21:30 PM
Gardner's not a bad player at this level, he's played well in other loan spells in this league.

For whatever reason he could never get that performance level for us, maybe felt too much pressure, I don't know. Still got two years to run on his deal of course, we should recall him in January if we can as don't like him helping them go above us.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: alftitimus on October 23, 2018, 11:24:37 PM
After MON walked.... I've not trusted nor believed in any subsequent Manager.

I was at the away Norwich match where our supporters were singing praise to Lambert. Eventually Lerner got him. BRILLIANT.  ;D

Does one need to list the dead-heads with Golden P-45s that have trolled through our doors ? ? ?

Amateur Owners

From Lener to Xia to now.

Big Name Managers, floated, hyped and 'leaked' ... and we get D Smith from Brentford  :D

BRILLIANT..... somehow we've got some brains up there at last.

I always reckoned on Brentford ... though I always thought if they got up, they'd be straight down because of MONEY.
Bournemouth proved me wrong on that  8)

Yep, I'm Happy for once, since MON.

ONLY ONE little niggle.... but that can wait.

WE need the "New Manager Bounce"  OK



Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on October 23, 2018, 11:29:01 PM
Thats a shit poem.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on October 23, 2018, 11:31:02 PM
quality players for me are comfortable with the ball
we’ve seen again tonight ours aren’t

I found Smiths comments tonight a tad worrying
we didn’t deserve anything from that game
and we certainly weren’t better on the ball in the second half

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on October 23, 2018, 11:35:01 PM
And that one's not much better.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on October 23, 2018, 11:37:11 PM
Quote from: john e on October 23, 2018, 11:31:02 PM
quality players for me are comfortable with the ball
we’ve seen again tonight ours aren’t

I found Smiths comments tonight a tad worrying
we didn’t deserve anything from that game
and we certainly weren’t better on the ball in the second half

I wouldnt worry to much about his comments, I think what hes saying in the dressing room vs what hes saying in the media is very different.
To be fair if it had ended in a draw then I dont think anybody could of had any complaints. They were shite first and definately had the better of the 2nd half but other than the 2 goals, which were mistakes from us, they had no other stand out chances. We hit the post and had Hourihanes shot at the beginning of the 2nd half so a draw wouldn't of been unfair.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Fred Crump on October 23, 2018, 11:54:13 PM
Quote from: alftitimus on October 23, 2018, 11:24:37 PM
After MON walked.... I've not trusted nor believed in any subsequent Manager.

I was at the away Norwich match where our supporters were singing praise to Lambert. Eventually Lerner got him. BRILLIANT.  ;D

Does one need to list the dead-heads with Golden P-45s that have trolled through our doors ? ? ?

Amateur Owners

From Lener to Xia to now.

Big Name Managers, floated, hyped and 'leaked' ... and we get D Smith from Brentford  :D

BRILLIANT..... somehow we've got some brains up there at last.

I always reckoned on Brentford ... though I always thought if they got up, they'd be straight down because of MONEY.
Bournemouth proved me wrong on that  8)

Yep, I'm Happy for once, since MON.

ONLY ONE little niggle.... but that can wait.

WE need the "New Manager Bounce"  OK
Glad you’re happy Alf , and I think you’re right, at last we’ve got a manager with intelligence. I’m sure he will sort it out but of course he needs time. One week in and you can see what he’s trying to do ...
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sickbeggar on October 24, 2018, 12:14:19 AM
My major problem with appointing Smith is he wouldn't get the time to ship out all the arse because our fans think we should be in the premiership full stop. Doesn't matter if we can stay there, we have rich owners, we can buy a new squad when we get up etc... well we saw that approach with Bruce and it didn't work. Me, i can live with another season in the championship if he turns us into a side who we won't be looking to totally replace if we get up. I really hope he gets the time personally and i won't be looking to judge the guy till after christmas 2020. By then and 3 transfer windows you'd hope he'd have a team mainly in his image.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on October 24, 2018, 12:44:06 AM
Quote from: sickbeggar on October 24, 2018, 12:14:19 AM
My major problem with appointing Smith is he wouldn't get the time to ship out all the arse because our fans think we should be in the premiership full stop. Doesn't matter if we can stay there, we have rich owners, we can buy a new squad when we get up etc... well we saw that approach with Bruce and it didn't work. Me, i can live with another season in the championship if he turns us into a side who we won't be looking to totally replace if we get up. I really hope he gets the time personally and i won't be looking to judge the guy till after christmas 2020. By then and 3 transfer windows you'd hope he'd have a team mainly in his image.

Just like SB next season is the time to properly judge imo.

Our name at this level at least will always attract players...hence how we got in Snodgrass and Terry last year and Bolaise and Abraham this.

I agree about shipping out players but likes of Whelan, Hutton and Jedinak are all out of contract so that is decent scope to release three of our highest earners and none of them really fit into the comfortable in possession ethos.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sickbeggar on October 24, 2018, 12:59:59 AM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on October 24, 2018, 12:44:06 AM
Quote from: sickbeggar on October 24, 2018, 12:14:19 AM
My major problem with appointing Smith is he wouldn't get the time to ship out all the arse because our fans think we should be in the premiership full stop. Doesn't matter if we can stay there, we have rich owners, we can buy a new squad when we get up etc... well we saw that approach with Bruce and it didn't work. Me, i can live with another season in the championship if he turns us into a side who we won't be looking to totally replace if we get up. I really hope he gets the time personally and i won't be looking to judge the guy till after christmas 2020. By then and 3 transfer windows you'd hope he'd have a team mainly in his image.

Just like SB next season is the time to properly judge imo.

Our name at this level at least will always attract players...hence how we got in Snodgrass and Terry last year and Bolaise and Abraham this.

I agree about shipping out players but likes of Whelan, Hutton and Jedinak are all out of contract so that is decent scope to release three of our highest earners and none of them really fit into the comfortable in possession ethos.

yep, its very very early days. i don't see us as a quick fix as the side that got to a play-off final no longer exists. It was temporary by definition and design. Win our home games and draw and lose away and we won't be that far off this season, but really lets get some sort of squad built for the future.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on October 24, 2018, 03:29:25 AM
I just love his honesty. Maybe it’s just him being a Brummie but even in defeat he sounded genuine. It will get better. I’m convinced of it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Matt Collins on October 24, 2018, 05:53:07 AM
I did think he was a bit overly positive. Buy wouldn't read too much into it
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OzVilla on October 24, 2018, 07:14:49 AM
He's not going to throw anyone under the bus, not after 2 games.  He's looking at what he's got and giving everyone a clean slate, i'm happy with that approach.  That also means though that he cant be making knee jerk comments post match.  It's basically up to the players now in training and games for the next month.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on October 24, 2018, 07:32:14 AM
Next month? Come January 1st we could very easily be stuck in the bottom six. We need players in and there is little hope of shifting many out. The guy deserves a massive bonus if he gets up top ten this season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on October 24, 2018, 09:51:03 AM
the fundamental problem is Smith hasn't got enough players who can play in the way he wants them to
ie control, pass, move

the defence are playing out from the back as we saw last night, but none of them are comfortable on the ball so they tie themselves in knots and look awkward

the rest of the team bar a couple just struggle with the ball at there feet and lose possession to quickly
Ball retention is a massive part of Smiths football philosophy but many of our players are just not capable in that department and I fear never will be

Smith will have to find players who can play his way, whether we bring them in over time or find them in the youth squads I don't know

I'm delighted with the new direction, and I love what Smith is at least trying to do, that's a positive
but I'm not going to pretend the cards he had been dealt are good enough when they are not
that's not being unessesarily negative it's just what you can see on the pitch

the stats last night re shots and the ball hitting the post etc, we can talk all we like about how a second goal would have changed the game but that's what we did with Bruce make excuses when the reality is we were second best at actually controlling and passing the ball especially second half

I don't buy this 'best squad in the championship' stuff, unfortunatly for the way Smith wants to play they arnt as good as the ones he left

it's only a negative if we don't change and move in the new direction, but Smith had been bought in to do just that so that's the positive,
I refute claims of people last night being overly negative when it's clear at least to me he has been handed a group of Bruce players with poor ball retaining skills, the good news is he's been bought in to change that and I believe he can and will





Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Neil Hawkes on October 24, 2018, 10:37:05 AM
Ball retention is a massive part of Smiths football philosophy but many of our players are just not capable in that department and I fear never will be
This is not a dig at the poster - just a general comment - I do not believe any Championship player is incapable of this, they are (no matter what you think of them) professionals and professionals can be coached to be better.

Let's see if we improve in the months leading up to January, as every Villa player knows that barring FFP, we have the money to replace them. The ball is in their court.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on October 24, 2018, 10:39:26 AM
that's theBruce legacy for you - being forced into buying yet more players and ending up with a squad bigger than Uranus.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chris Smith on October 24, 2018, 10:55:58 AM
Quote from: mr underhill on October 24, 2018, 10:39:26 AM
that's theBruce legacy for you - being forced into buying yet more players and ending up with a squad bigger than Uranus.

We already knew we are short of defenders. Smith should have some time after Friday to start looking at the whole squad and assessing some of the fringe and younger players to see if they can do a job as well as working with the more established group, the schedule so far has not allowed that. It will take time and I think a degree of patience is needed.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OCD on October 24, 2018, 10:56:58 AM
Hopefully we can move players on too.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OCD on October 24, 2018, 11:05:56 AM
Quote from: aj2k77 on October 23, 2018, 10:34:33 PM
Poor substitution tonight the Hogan one.

The players kept playing the ball up to him, like Bruce would have had them do. He's not a hold-up player, he needs the ball played in behind like Vardy does at Leicester. I imagine Smith would have noted that and will be working on it in training and might go with Kodija in preference if he feels it's not working yet.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on October 24, 2018, 11:09:55 AM
 
Quote from: john e on October 24, 2018, 09:51:03 AM
the fundamental problem is Smith hasn't got enough players who can play in the way he wants them to
ie control, pass, move

the defence are playing out from the back as we saw last night, but none of them are comfortable on the ball so they tie themselves in knots and look awkward

the rest of the team bar a couple just struggle with the ball at there feet and lose possession to quickly
Ball retention is a massive part of Smiths football philosophy but many of our players are just not capable in that department and I fear never will be

Smith will have to find players who can play his way, whether we bring them in over time or find them in the youth squads I don't know

I'm delighted with the new direction, and I love what Smith is at least trying to do, that's a positive
but I'm not going to pretend the cards he had been dealt are good enough when they are not
that's not being unessesarily negative it's just what you can see on the pitch

the stats last night re shots and the ball hitting the post etc, we can talk all we like about how a second goal would have changed the game but that's what we did with Bruce make excuses when the reality is we were second best at actually controlling and passing the ball especially second half

I don't buy this 'best squad in the championship' stuff, unfortunatly for the way Smith wants to play they arnt as good as the ones he left

it's only a negative if we don't change and move in the new direction, but Smith had been bought in to do just that so that's the positive,
I refute claims of people last night being overly negative when it's clear at least to me he has been handed a group of Bruce players with poor ball retaining skills, the good news is he's been bought in to change that and I believe he can and will


The 2 centre backs can play and pass .
Tuanzabe stood out yesterday not hust defending but his passing and was  90.2% season high accuracy .

Chester at 85.2% and along with Grealish has been most consistent in his passing accuracy and are the two most successful passers at the club.

Along with them is Glenn Whelan made 73 passes last night and has high 90% passing accuracy so was doing his job and has done in his matches generally regards finding his team mates his stats in the few games he's played this season and last night indicate to me he'll be involved under Smith.

The problem in ball rention yesterday then was with Hutton and Taylor they were below 75%

The other issue the movement for Abraham has constantly posted poor figures in passing the ball at 63% and 47% in his last matches . This is part him and part options.
However I have seen him closely and consider he needs to up his passing decisions as simple lay offs have been avoided and flicks and we passing have been made.

The other issue is passing ball forward and Hourihane who considered the more attacking midfielder rarely does more than sideways let alone forward. Also his movement after a passing is way off. As a central player it's not nearly good enough despite 85% accurate passing yesterday he was not fulflling his role in developing attacks.


Adomah and Elmohamedys also need to move more without the ball and have seen Hutton first half and Taylor less over lap and this sort of movement needs to be recognized by fellow team mates and also made by players

Similar to Abraham yesterday Adomah had given ball away in part to lack of movement in options in part to passing to him when he's isolated and in part to poor decisions by player to pass to a team mate.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on October 24, 2018, 11:19:49 AM
Quote from: Neil Hawkes on October 24, 2018, 10:37:05 AM
Ball retention is a massive part of Smiths football philosophy but many of our players are just not capable in that department and I fear never will be
This is not a dig at the poster - just a general comment - I do not believe any Championship player is incapable of this, they are (no matter what you think of them) professionals and professionals can be coached to be better.

Let's see if we improve in the months leading up to January, as every Villa player knows that barring FFP, we have the money to replace them. The ball is in their court.

I'm with you Neil.

And developing movement as smithy been saying working without the ball and concentration to make opportunity in forward play passing means the game style of the team can be achieved as it takes the coaching ideas to come into practice.

More accuracy in passing and more passes forward come with a developed idea to play higher to win the ball back and to give more options.
Ball retention can be achieved by more players consistently if as a team and players movement is good off the ball.

They are all professional and with the right coaching and development we will (but shouldn't be) surprised that villa can easily become a passing team

The beauty is they are high end and top quality players it's just getting the movements into spaces and passing will be made more with less worry of losing possession

And with the idea to win back the ball quicker and playing the passes forward more than back anf side ways really can have allot of positives.
Jack Grealish despite my frustrations on him can really come alive in a development as all round play if this coaching comes off 

It a win all round
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tomd2103 on October 24, 2018, 11:54:07 AM
Quote from: john e on October 24, 2018, 09:51:03 AM
the fundamental problem is Smith hasn't got enough players who can play in the way he wants them to
ie control, pass, move

the defence are playing out from the back as we saw last night, but none of them are comfortable on the ball so they tie themselves in knots and look awkward

the rest of the team bar a couple just struggle with the ball at there feet and lose possession to quickly
Ball retention is a massive part of Smiths football philosophy but many of our players are just not capable in that department and I fear never will be

Smith will have to find players who can play his way, whether we bring them in over time or find them in the youth squads I don't know

I'm delighted with the new direction, and I love what Smith is at least trying to do, that's a positive
but I'm not going to pretend the cards he had been dealt are good enough when they are not
that's not being unessesarily negative it's just what you can see on the pitch

the stats last night re shots and the ball hitting the post etc, we can talk all we like about how a second goal would have changed the game but that's what we did with Bruce make excuses when the reality is we were second best at actually controlling and passing the ball especially second half

I don't buy this 'best squad in the championship' stuff, unfortunatly for the way Smith wants to play they arnt as good as the ones he left

it's only a negative if we don't change and move in the new direction, but Smith had been bought in to do just that so that's the positive,
I refute claims of people last night being overly negative when it's clear at least to me he has been handed a group of Bruce players with poor ball retaining skills, the good news is he's been bought in to change that and I believe he can and will

Totally agree John.  Smith and his staff are going to need time to put together the kind of squad capable of playing the style he wants to implement.  I do hope that there was an understanding of this from those calling for his appointment and that patience will be shown.   
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Neil Hawkes on October 24, 2018, 11:54:57 AM
Thank you footyskillz
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sirlordbaltimore on October 24, 2018, 12:05:32 PM



Bringing Bree in now and giving him the chance to impress and benching Hutton would be a great start
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on October 24, 2018, 12:17:06 PM
I would agree pretty much with every word of some high quality posts.  My only change would be the addition of the words "basic technique" to "ball retention".  If we are to break free of the curse of slow, safety first, cross field football we have to have players with the best technique that can be coached into them.  Start to depend on players that need two or more touches when there needs to be only one to seize an opportunity and you struggle and we do struggle.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on October 24, 2018, 12:56:35 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on October 24, 2018, 03:29:25 AM
I just love his honesty. Maybe it’s just him being a Brummie but even in defeat he sounded genuine. It will get better. I’m convinced of it.

Hmmm. His assessment of the game didn't really accord with what was actually witnessed.  We were dire, and yet he said we played well second half.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Hookeysmith on October 24, 2018, 02:47:29 PM
Quote from: Risso on October 24, 2018, 12:56:35 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on October 24, 2018, 03:29:25 AM
I just love his honesty. Maybe it’s just him being a Brummie but even in defeat he sounded genuine. It will get better. I’m convinced of it.

Hmmm. His assessment of the game didn't really accord with what was actually witnessed.  We were dire, and yet he said we played well second half.

Without him sounding "lamberkesque" I think it is about trying to motivate players that are new to him. I am sure he is already making his assessments known to his staff and the Richard Madley lookalike
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Diablo on October 24, 2018, 02:56:16 PM
It's gonna take time, a whole lot of precious time
It's gonna take patience and time, ummm
To do it, to do it, to do it,
to do it, to do it
to do it right child UTV!!!


Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Matt Collins on October 24, 2018, 03:09:11 PM
I think he probably believes the most important thing is for the players to believe in his methods. We wanted someone with a clear philosophy

Perhaps he saw the players trying to do the things he wants and wants to encourage that

It was always likely that there will be problems as we transition. Well almost certainly give away sloppy goals by overplaying as we do

I just hope the fans tolerate a bit of that. I'm already seeing people complaining that some fans are criticising Smith already, though not seem much of that myself
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tomd2103 on October 24, 2018, 03:15:46 PM
Quote from: Matt Collins on October 24, 2018, 03:09:11 PM
I think he probably believes the most important thing is for the players to believe in his methods. We wanted someone with a clear philosophy

Perhaps he saw the players trying to do the things he wants and wants to encourage that

It was always likely that there will be problems as we transition. Well almost certainly give away sloppy goals by overplaying as we do

I just hope the fans tolerate a bit of that. I'm already seeing people complaining that some fans are criticising Smith already, though not seem much of that myself

Yep, he hasn't even had the chance to put together a proper backroom team yet so patience is definitely required. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TheMalandro on October 24, 2018, 03:38:04 PM
Quote from: tomd2103 on October 24, 2018, 03:15:46 PM
Quote from: Matt Collins on October 24, 2018, 03:09:11 PM
I think he probably believes the most important thing is for the players to believe in his methods. We wanted someone with a clear philosophy

Perhaps he saw the players trying to do the things he wants and wants to encourage that

It was always likely that there will be problems as we transition. Well almost certainly give away sloppy goals by overplaying as we do

I just hope the fans tolerate a bit of that. I'm already seeing people complaining that some fans are criticising Smith already, though not seem much of that myself

Yep, he hasn't even had the chance to put together a proper backroom team yet so patience is definitely required. 

I'd save money the on a goalkeeping coach for now, no way you can improve these monkeys.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on October 24, 2018, 04:21:04 PM
Ball retention was never a requirement of the previous regime. And for those who could do it, it was coached out of them. It will now need to be coached back into the current players. Those who can do it well will be kept. Those who can’t will be sold.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on October 24, 2018, 05:10:28 PM
to whom? Why would anyone want to buy a player who is incapable of retaining the ball?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Monty on October 24, 2018, 05:27:24 PM
Quote from: mr underhill on October 24, 2018, 05:10:28 PM
to whom? Why would anyone want to buy a player who is incapable of retaining the ball?

I mean, whoever that bloke was who bought him for Villa might get another job.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on October 24, 2018, 06:02:38 PM
Quote from: mr underhill on October 24, 2018, 05:10:28 PM
to whom? Why would anyone want to buy a player who is incapable of retaining the ball?

Not every team/manager plays a ball retention style.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 24, 2018, 06:12:15 PM
What's frustrating for me is we're finally doing what I wanted us to do the first season down here. Start from the beginning and build to a defined plan that is sustainable and can be carried on by future managers, unfortunately as we're doing it in season 3 we've wasted 5 transfer windows and countless millions buying players that aren't suited to playing that way.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on October 24, 2018, 06:18:58 PM
Spot on PWS
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on October 24, 2018, 06:48:42 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on October 24, 2018, 06:12:15 PM
What's frustrating for me is we're finally doing what I wanted us to do the first season down here. Start from the beginning and build to a defined plan that is sustainable and can be carried on by future managers, unfortunately as we're doing it in season 3 we've wasted 5 transfer windows and countless millions buying players that aren't suited to playing that way.
Yup.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on October 24, 2018, 06:51:22 PM
Quote from: Mister E on October 24, 2018, 06:48:42 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on October 24, 2018, 06:12:15 PM
What's frustrating for me is we're finally doing what I wanted us to do the first season down here. Start from the beginning and build to a defined plan that is sustainable and can be carried on by future managers, unfortunately as we're doing it in season 3 we've wasted 5 transfer windows and countless millions buying players that aren't suited to playing that way.
Yup.

Yup x 2
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on October 24, 2018, 06:59:50 PM
I really hope he gets the time.  I’m talking this season and next at least even if we don’t go up this year which I’m convinced we won’t.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 24, 2018, 07:07:56 PM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on October 24, 2018, 06:59:50 PM
I really hope he gets the time.  I’m talking this season and next at least even if we don’t go up this year which I’m convinced we won’t.

I’m sure he will, and rightly so. It’d would have to be a truly diabolical run over an extended period for him to be under threat. I don’t see that happening, I suspect we’ll get better and better.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on October 24, 2018, 07:16:31 PM
I don’t know why but I feel really fcukin pissed off and down about us at the minute.  Bruce’s negligence has turned us into a crock of shit at the back with no spine whatsoever.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: West Derby Villan on October 24, 2018, 07:18:59 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on October 24, 2018, 06:12:15 PM
What's frustrating for me is we're finally doing what I wanted us to do the first season down here. Start from the beginning and build to a defined plan that is sustainable and can be carried on by future managers, unfortunately as we're doing it in season 3 we've wasted 5 transfer windows and countless millions buying players that aren't suited to playing that way.

100% this, as you say " frustrating", hopefully we get it right this time !
Patience by all  is what is now required
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on October 24, 2018, 07:23:04 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on October 24, 2018, 06:12:15 PM
What's frustrating for me is we're finally doing what I wanted us to do the first season down here. Start from the beginning and build to a defined plan that is sustainable and can be carried on by future managers, unfortunately as we're doing it in season 3 we've wasted 5 transfer windows and countless millions buying players that aren't suited to playing that way.

This is probably why I was so harsh on Bruce, he was a choice made for a shit reason that perpetuated the cycle that saw us relegated and, as I expected all along, has left us 2 years down the line with very little to show for it.

Smith is exactly the type of manager we should've been looking for when they decided to ditch RDM and, if he focuses on young player with pace, energy and solid technique (as he did at Brentford) then the transfer policy will be right as well.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on October 24, 2018, 07:30:26 PM
The only tiny addition I would make is that I think the change of philosophy should have happened as soon as Eric Black took over.  We went down like a basket case team of serial losers.  We should have been preparing to hit the Championship like Dean Smith is going to get us playing now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on October 24, 2018, 07:36:27 PM
I find it astonishing that we are talking about highly paid "professional" footballers who are unable to make simple passes or even control the ball - how can it be that some players are " not comfortable on the ball " it's their job/ trade. They will have been kicking a ball from an early age - they train daily - how can each and every one of them not be adept at basic skills? It's like a builder turning up on site and not being able to use a hammer or an office worker not knowing how to use a PC.
By all means they may take a while to be familiar with fresh tactics or coaching methods but basic stuff like ball retention and accurate passing is something they should have been comfortable with by the time they graduated from junior football let alone youth football. We should stop making excuses for them - if they aren't comfortable then ship em out
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SheffieldVillain on October 24, 2018, 07:41:16 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on October 24, 2018, 07:36:27 PM
By all means they may take a while to be familiar with fresh tactics or coaching methods but basic stuff like ball retention and accurate passing is something they should have been comfortable with by the time they graduated from junior football let alone youth football. We should stop making excuses for them - if they aren't comfortable then ship em out

We can't though, can we? The transfer window is closed. So the only thing to do is make the best of what we've got and for Smith to try to hammer some basics into them for the next two months.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 24, 2018, 07:42:28 PM
WM post-match interview (https://audioboom.com/posts/7057875-dean-smith-on-the-2-1-defeat-to-norwich)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on October 24, 2018, 07:45:48 PM
It’s going to be a lot like when you first take golf lessons. Your game is struggling, your swing looks awful. But through good coaching, while your game might get worse initially, it will get better.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on October 24, 2018, 07:46:13 PM
Quote from: brian green on October 24, 2018, 07:30:26 PM
The only tiny addition I would make is that I think the change of philosophy should have happened as soon as Eric Black took over.  We went down like a basket case team of serial losers.  We should have been preparing to hit the Championship like Dean Smith is going to get us playing now.

My biggest issue with Black was that he did fuck all to prepare the club for the championship, we could've got anyone off the street to do what he did at the end of that season. When we went for RDM I was willing to give him a chance and I think some of his signings were sensible but I'd have rather he'd have not bothered with McCormack and got another midfielder instead, preferably someone with some energy. We all love McGinn largely because he's the long overdue replacement for Delph.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on October 24, 2018, 07:54:44 PM
Quote from: SheffieldVillain on October 24, 2018, 07:41:16 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on October 24, 2018, 07:36:27 PM
By all means they may take a while to be familiar with fresh tactics or coaching methods but basic stuff like ball retention and accurate passing is something they should have been comfortable with by the time they graduated from junior football let alone youth football. We should stop making excuses for them - if they aren't comfortable then ship em out

We can't though, can we? The transfer window is closed. So the only thing to do is make the best of what we've got and for Smith to try to hammer some basics into them for the next two months.
Yea I know - I didn't mean like tomorrow :)
Unfortunately it will be difficult to do and will take at least two transfer Windows I would imagine
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on October 24, 2018, 07:55:15 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on October 24, 2018, 07:36:27 PM
I find it astonishing that we are talking about highly paid "professional" footballers who are unable to make simple passes or even control the ball - how can it be that some players are " not comfortable on the ball " it's their job/ trade. They will have been kicking a ball from an early age - they train daily - how can each and every one of them not be adept at basic skills? It's like a builder turning up on site and not being able to use a hammer or an office worker not knowing how to use a PC.
By all means they may take a while to be familiar with fresh tactics or coaching methods but basic stuff like ball retention and accurate passing is something they should have been comfortable with by the time they graduated from junior football let alone youth football. We should stop making excuses for them - if they aren't comfortable then ship em out

I completely disagree with the view that they can't retain the ball.  Our midfield isn't made up of cast aways and rejects - we went around picking off smaller clubs' best players - Hourihane - Barnsley captain; Lansbury - Forest captain; Jedinak - Palace captain; Adomah - virtual ever present the year Boro got promoted; Grealish - one of the most comfortable players on the ball most have ever seen.

To say this lot aren't comfortable on the ball is frankly bollocks.  What's more likely is that they've spent the last two year being "coached" by Bruce to not worry about that side of things and have got in to the wrong mindset.  Give Deano some time with them and they'll be more than fine.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on October 24, 2018, 08:00:22 PM
The new owners should have potted Bruce and got Smith in in the summer.  Then he'd at least have a chance with some of his own players instead of the car crash squad that Bruce has assembled.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on October 24, 2018, 08:06:48 PM
Quote from: Risso on October 24, 2018, 08:00:22 PM
The new owners should have potted Bruce and got Smith in in the summer.  Then he'd at least have a chance with some of his own players instead of the car crash squad that Bruce has assembled.
No, he needed more time.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on October 24, 2018, 08:16:27 PM
Quote from: Ad@m on October 24, 2018, 07:55:15 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on October 24, 2018, 07:36:27 PM
I find it astonishing that we are talking about highly paid "professional" footballers who are unable to make simple passes or even control the ball - how can it be that some players are " not comfortable on the ball " it's their job/ trade. They will have been kicking a ball from an early age - they train daily - how can each and every one of them not be adept at basic skills? It's like a builder turning up on site and not being able to use a hammer or an office worker not knowing how to use a PC.
By all means they may take a while to be familiar with fresh tactics or coaching methods but basic stuff like ball retention and accurate passing is something they should have been comfortable with by the time they graduated from junior football let alone youth football. We should stop making excuses for them - if they aren't comfortable then ship em out

I completely disagree with the view that they can't retain the ball.  Our midfield isn't made up of cast aways and rejects - we went around picking off smaller clubs' best players - Hourihane - Barnsley captain; Lansbury - Forest captain; Jedinak - Palace captain; Adomah - virtual ever present the year Boro got promoted; Grealish - one of the most comfortable players on the ball most have ever seen.

To say this lot aren't comfortable on the ball is frankly bollocks.  What's more likely is that they've spent the last two year being "coached" by Bruce to not worry about that side of things and have got in to the wrong mindset.  Give Deano some time with them and they'll be more than fine.
Thanks for your reasoned response - could have done without "bollocks" comment -  but each to his own - as for the
"Wrong mind set" - we are talking about adults here and not young kids - given time I hope Smith can mould a decent side
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on October 24, 2018, 08:39:47 PM
Paul, that is my complaint about Black too.  We were dead in the water when he took over.  He had a free hit.  Our fight to return to the Premiership should have begun the day relegation became a mathematical certainty.  Instead the first of our seasons in the second tier set a pattern of unpreparedness repeated in the second season and now repeated in the third.  It is an essay in lazy, bungling, slapdash, there or thereabouts management, coaching and administration.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: London Villan on October 24, 2018, 08:46:37 PM
It’s the reason the albion have started relatively well.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on October 24, 2018, 08:48:19 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on October 24, 2018, 07:45:48 PM
It’s going to be a lot like when you first take golf lessons. Your game is struggling, your swing looks awful. But through good coaching, while your game might get worse initially, it will get better.
I hope your right. Wait change that. You are right.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on October 24, 2018, 08:57:48 PM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on October 24, 2018, 07:16:31 PM
I don’t know why but I feel really fcukin pissed off and down about us at the minute.  Bruce’s negligence has turned us into a crock of shit at the back with no spine whatsoever.
Make no mistake. Bruce left us with an unbalanced, incoherent,unfit squad. Deliberately imo. But we have been overhauled from the very top down. We have the structure and financial backing in place to return to the top echelons with a vengeance. It will come but we the fan base need to be patient and back Smith & co to the hilt.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy65 on October 24, 2018, 09:03:29 PM
Quote from: Ad@m on October 24, 2018, 07:55:15 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on October 24, 2018, 07:36:27 PM
I find it astonishing that we are talking about highly paid "professional" footballers who are unable to make simple passes or even control the ball - how can it be that some players are " not comfortable on the ball " it's their job/ trade. They will have been kicking a ball from an early age - they train daily - how can each and every one of them not be adept at basic skills? It's like a builder turning up on site and not being able to use a hammer or an office worker not knowing how to use a PC.
By all means they may take a while to be familiar with fresh tactics or coaching methods but basic stuff like ball retention and accurate passing is something they should have been comfortable with by the time they graduated from junior football let alone youth football. We should stop making excuses for them - if they aren't comfortable then ship em out

I completely disagree with the view that they can't retain the ball.  Our midfield isn't made up of cast aways and rejects - we went around picking off smaller clubs' best players - Hourihane - Barnsley captain; Lansbury - Forest captain; Jedinak - Palace captain; Adomah - virtual ever present the year Boro got promoted; Grealish - one of the most comfortable players on the ball most have ever seen.

To say this lot aren't comfortable on the ball is frankly bollocks.  What's more likely is that they've spent the last two year being "coached" by Bruce to not worry about that side of things and have got in to the wrong mindset.  Give Deano some time with them and they'll be more than fine.

Not with this squad he won’t. Too many players on a big pay day who simply aren’t good enough or are past it. We have no pace in the team and very few who can continually beat a man. Like mentioned last night I just hope we have some younger players who are good enough to step up in th next few months. We aren’t going anywhere fast with the likes of Whelan, taylor, Hutton, Lansbury Hourihane, Jedinak, Elmo and probably BB
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on October 24, 2018, 09:05:46 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on October 24, 2018, 08:16:27 PM
Quote from: Ad@m on October 24, 2018, 07:55:15 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on October 24, 2018, 07:36:27 PM
I find it astonishing that we are talking about highly paid "professional" footballers who are unable to make simple passes or even control the ball - how can it be that some players are " not comfortable on the ball " it's their job/ trade. They will have been kicking a ball from an early age - they train daily - how can each and every one of them not be adept at basic skills? It's like a builder turning up on site and not being able to use a hammer or an office worker not knowing how to use a PC.
By all means they may take a while to be familiar with fresh tactics or coaching methods but basic stuff like ball retention and accurate passing is something they should have been comfortable with by the time they graduated from junior football let alone youth football. We should stop making excuses for them - if they aren't comfortable then ship em out

I completely disagree with the view that they can't retain the ball.  Our midfield isn't made up of cast aways and rejects - we went around picking off smaller clubs' best players - Hourihane - Barnsley captain; Lansbury - Forest captain; Jedinak - Palace captain; Adomah - virtual ever present the year Boro got promoted; Grealish - one of the most comfortable players on the ball most have ever seen.

To say this lot aren't comfortable on the ball is frankly bollocks.  What's more likely is that they've spent the last two year being "coached" by Bruce to not worry about that side of things and have got in to the wrong mindset.  Give Deano some time with them and they'll be more than fine.
Thanks for your reasoned response - could have done without "bollocks" comment -  but each to his own - as for the
"Wrong mind set" - we are talking about adults here and not young kids - given time I hope Smith can mould a decent side

The "bollocks" comment wasn't necessarily aimed at you VCTM - there are plenty on here suggesting our players are inherently poor, when their careers prior to joining the Villa prove they're not.

As for adults vs kids - take anyone of any age, and keep telling them to do something a certain way for two years solid and they'll become accustomed to doing it that way.  It's not going to change overnight but they were good players before and with the right coaching they can be good players again*.

*Except for Neil Taylor - he's just crap! ;)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Pvb1968 on October 24, 2018, 09:23:14 PM
I am personally chuffed Dean Smith is now in charge and hope his team can push for the play offs as the season progessis, a win Friday would be great but now is the time to stick together and let the powers that be turn this ship around, and they will.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on October 25, 2018, 08:19:21 AM
Agree Pvb.  There is a golden future.  We have to reach out and grab it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Taylor on October 25, 2018, 08:40:33 AM
Quote from: The Edge on October 24, 2018, 08:57:48 PM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on October 24, 2018, 07:16:31 PM
I don’t know why but I feel really fcukin pissed off and down about us at the minute.  Bruce’s negligence has turned us into a crock of shit at the back with no spine whatsoever.
Make no mistake. Bruce left us with an unbalanced, incoherent,unfit squad. Deliberately imo. But we have been overhauled from the very top down. We have the structure and financial backing in place to return to the top echelons with a vengeance. It will come but we the fan base need to be patient and back Smith & co to the hilt.
You wanted him gone, I wanted him gone. He's gone. But to suggest that he deliberately sabotaged the club is way off the mark, and dare I say it "hysterical".
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on October 25, 2018, 09:23:02 AM
Have we massively underachieved, had  poor managers, just not very good, or a combination of all three?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chris Smith on October 25, 2018, 11:05:37 AM
Quote from: Three Spires Villa on October 25, 2018, 09:23:02 AM
Have we massively underachieved, had  poor managers, just not very good, or a combination of all three?

We have been poorly run as a club over a number of years starting towards the end of MON’s time which has meant poor appointments at all levels with no coherent strategy. The optimist in me thinks that this time it looks as though we are going about things in the right way; the pessimist in me says it will all go to shit because it always does; the pragmatist  in me is saying wait and see.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kipeye on October 25, 2018, 11:14:34 AM
Forgive the long post but I don't post a lot these days-the fact I am interested again is relevant. I was far less downbeat about the Norwich performance than many on here. This is not about a game but about our new management. Some have pointed out that we actually had a shape and pattern up until the double injuries. It looked really different to what we have seen before and arrived in a very short time of preparation. Although Hogan was poor again and Ghazi struggled to defend as well as Albert, it is going to need time for the whole squad to blend, but the signs for the starting 11 are very good.
Since the false dawn of MON the only management team that inspired me were Sherwood and crew, who I thought were a perfect fit. Like the Fantastic Mr. Fox that lasted far less than my original admiration for Tony Blair! So it is with some caution that I am delighted we finally made the choice to go with Smith and Terry, as everything about it looks right for what we need.
Playing higher up the pitch and to individuals strengths, establishing a settled formation and first 11, seems like a no-brainer, but no-one has done this before and I think we will see it happen very quickly.
If we do not go up this season, I will not blame anyone and will settle for taking every game seriously. I actually thought we were very good against Norwich and were ultimately unlucky. I seem to be in the minority when I thought Jack had a great game. Anything can happen Friday, but with Ginny back I think we will get stronger each game-but not necessarily win every time.
Forget Bruce-he did his best and left us better than he found us in many ways, and forget all that has come before and start afresh. We do have a very talented set of players and good youngsters in the wings. We have not yet seen good coaching of either for many years. I cannot remember so many players failing to achieve or going elsewhere and improving so much more. This will change. UTV.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: andyh on October 25, 2018, 11:39:51 AM
I agree with a lot of what you say kipeye.
I too agree that Jack had a good game, I think a few others in the team could have shown more, but it seemed they were happy for jack to take most of the responsibility to try and make something happen.

I think Smith will have learnt more about the team and squad in defeat and hopefully he will have a plan to correct some of the problems.
It’s not going to be a quick fix, but if we can keep the top 6 in sight by the turn of the year I think we could kick on and still finish in the play offs.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on October 25, 2018, 12:50:43 PM
I hope they all write us off to take any pressure off and we use the January window well, before doing a Fulham. I trust Dean Smith whatever.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on October 25, 2018, 01:46:25 PM
Quote from: Chris Smith on October 25, 2018, 11:05:37 AM
Quote from: Three Spires Villa on October 25, 2018, 09:23:02 AM
Have we massively underachieved, had  poor managers, just not very good, or a combination of all three?

We have been poorly run as a club over a number of years starting towards the end of MON’s time which has meant poor appointments at all levels with no coherent strategy. The optimist in me thinks that this time it looks as though we are going about things in the right way; the pessimist in me says it will all go to shit because it always does; the pragmatist  in me is saying wait and see.

And that fence is telling me 'Get off me Chris, you're killing me.' :-)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clark W Griswold on October 25, 2018, 01:59:57 PM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on October 25, 2018, 01:46:25 PM
Quote from: Chris Smith on October 25, 2018, 11:05:37 AM
Quote from: Three Spires Villa on October 25, 2018, 09:23:02 AM
Have we massively underachieved, had  poor managers, just not very good, or a combination of all three?

We have been poorly run as a club over a number of years starting towards the end of MON’s time which has meant poor appointments at all levels with no coherent strategy. The optimist in me thinks that this time it looks as though we are going about things in the right way; the pessimist in me says it will all go to shit because it always does; the pragmatist  in me is saying wait and see.

And that fence is telling me 'Get off me Chris, you're killing me.' :-)

I think it summed up my view on it as well. And even though I know we all need to be patient it's getting harder to be so, with every new dawn.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: jwarry on October 25, 2018, 02:02:13 PM
I agree too Kipeye, I thought we did ok and I'm pretty sure Dean was confident we would go on and win it but the double injury and letting in a poor goal did us.  Smith just said in his press conference that he put Hogan on to run the channels and stretch them but as soon as he went on we conceded so the plan didn't work.  He said that Hogan did run the channels but the rest of the team never found him which I guess you never see watching on TV because we all assumed he played crap.  At least he was honest enough to say that in retrospect Kodj might have been a better option, but least we now know he had a plan. 

I think we are all feeling a bit frustrated simply because we are so low down in the league and we can see shit teams moving ahead of us, and yet a couple of wins and we are right back in the mix.  Having 3 games in six days and an international break before that has not helped of course, but I'm sure Dean knows he doesn't have the luxury of time
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on October 25, 2018, 02:45:02 PM
Press conference here.

He speaks really well and does inspire confidence that he will get things right in due course.

https://www.avfc.co.uk/News/2018/10/24/dean-smith-press-conference-qpr

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 26, 2018, 09:58:04 PM
Right Dean lots of hard work to do mate.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on October 26, 2018, 10:18:41 PM
We could be 17th or 18th after tomorrow's games ......I sincerely hope Smith can get something out this squad ( of individuals rather than team players) otherwise we are deep in the shit - all very well playing better football but not if the end result is the same ....an already long season looks even longer ...January recruitment is vital but I doubt we will be in with a shout for the play offs ..... when was the last time we were so low in the second division ?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 26, 2018, 10:20:56 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on October 26, 2018, 10:18:41 PM
We could be 17th or 18th after tomorrow's games ......I sincerely hope Smith can get something out this squad ( of individuals rather than team players) otherwise we are deep in the shit - all very well playing better football but not if the end result is the same ....an already long season looks even longer ...January recruitment is vital but I doubt we will be in with a shout for the play offs ..... when was the last time we were so low in the second division ?

The previous 3 seasons we've spent in this division including under SGT.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on October 26, 2018, 10:27:34 PM
Trying to play football with a Steve Bruce side.  Almost impossible with a lazy bunch of fucks ghat they are.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on October 26, 2018, 10:28:47 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on October 26, 2018, 10:20:56 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on October 26, 2018, 10:18:41 PM
We could be 17th or 18th after tomorrow's games ......I sincerely hope Smith can get something out this squad ( of individuals rather than team players) otherwise we are deep in the shit - all very well playing better football but not if the end result is the same ....an already long season looks even longer ...January recruitment is vital but I doubt we will be in with a shout for the play offs ..... when was the last time we were so low in the second division ?

The previous 3 seasons we've spent in this division including under SGT.
Really? For some strange reason I'd airbrushed that from my memory ...... I was thinking late 60`s
Irrespective it's all very concerning .... I wish I could share the optimism many have for Smith  -  I think the task in front of him is bigger than both  he and many of us thought - I wish him luck
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sickbeggar on October 26, 2018, 10:29:24 PM
Getting there. It's nice to see us put out a team selection where i can see what he's trying to do after Bruce where it was generally "wtf is he doing now?". Unfortunately at the moment he's compromised by what he's got at his disposal which isn't even a coherant squad, but at least he see's the problems you do and is trying to patch things up. Tonight was frustrating, but apart from the defensive fucks-up,  the players obviously not comfortable with his style of play, and players fluffing scoring chances i reckon we're on the right track :o
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on October 26, 2018, 10:31:17 PM
This season will be similar to 16/17 I fear. Look at our 11 and there are many comparisons with what we had two years back and the results are reflecting this.

I will judge Dean from start of next season, exactly the same yardstick I used with Steve Bruce. He has next six months to shape the team and we need to come out flying next season so a good run at some point will be useful.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on October 26, 2018, 10:31:23 PM
I think we're going to get irritating results until January I'm.afraid. It may be too late by then, but this is the hand we've been dealt.

Maybe with a full week Smith might have room to breathe and see who is available in the u23s.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 26, 2018, 10:31:26 PM
We started W1 D3 L3 under SGT, we should remember the RDM start and the crap start last season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: adrenachrome on October 26, 2018, 10:33:58 PM
Quote from: Ads on October 26, 2018, 10:31:23 PM
I think we're going to get irritating results until January I'm.afraid. It may be too late by then, but this is the hand we've been dealt.

Maybe with a full week Smith might have room to breathe and see who is available in the u23s.

I think you are right.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on October 26, 2018, 10:35:22 PM
He's come into a job in an international break, missing half of his squad and straight into 3 games. It's almost unfair. I expect after a few weeks of actual training we'll be better. But it's a hell of a hill to climb.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Louzie0 on October 26, 2018, 10:38:03 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on October 26, 2018, 10:20:56 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on October 26, 2018, 10:18:41 PM
We could be 17th or 18th after tomorrow's games ......I sincerely hope Smith can get something out this squad ( of individuals rather than team players) otherwise we are deep in the shit - all very well playing better football but not if the end result is the same ....an already long season looks even longer ...January recruitment is vital but I doubt we will be in with a shout for the play offs ..... when was the last time we were so low in the second division ?

The previous 3 seasons we've spent in this division including under SGT.

Go, Deano
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on October 26, 2018, 10:38:30 PM
Quote from: Ads on October 26, 2018, 10:31:23 PM
I think we're going to get irritating results until January I'm.afraid. It may be too late by then, but this is the hand we've been dealt.

Maybe with a full week Smith might have room to breathe and see who is available in the u23s.
A genuine question to you Ads - do you  think we have anyone with  sufficient quality in Under 23`s to improve the first eleven?  We are looking for aspiring leaders on the pitch ...anyone fit the bill ?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on October 26, 2018, 10:42:07 PM
Nothing much wrong with this start from Dean it’s the position he started from that is the problem.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: myf on October 26, 2018, 10:43:29 PM
A full week of coaching so hoping we start to see a difference this time next week. If not could be a relegation battle with the run of games coming up
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villatillidie1982 on October 26, 2018, 10:43:49 PM
Please give the guy a chance. He needs to instill some confidence into the players who currently look weak through no real belief. He needs to tell them how good they are while trying to find replacements for those that aren't good enough or are past it (Hutton is past it, Nyland, Taylor and Chester aren't good enough).

Once he sorts the defence out, the rest will sort out itself.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Vegas on October 26, 2018, 10:48:52 PM
Quote from: olaftab on October 26, 2018, 10:42:07 PM
Nothing much wrong with this start from Dean it’s the position he started from that is the problem.

Yes he inherited a lopsided and underperforming squad, but I think we all hoped for a little more than 3 pts from 3 games. He’ll sort it out but it’s a poor start.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on October 26, 2018, 10:53:51 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on October 26, 2018, 10:38:30 PM
Quote from: Ads on October 26, 2018, 10:31:23 PM
I think we're going to get irritating results until January I'm.afraid. It may be too late by then, but this is the hand we've been dealt.

Maybe with a full week Smith might have room to breathe and see who is available in the u23s.
A genuine question to you Ads - do you  think we have anyone with  sufficient quality in Under 23`s to improve the first eleven?  We are looking for aspiring leaders on the pitch ...anyone fit the bill ?

I don't know. Doyle-Hayes I wonder about as I think he's very good on the ball. He's the one that would be in my thinking.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: achilles on October 26, 2018, 11:18:25 PM
Bruce has left us with a totally unbalanced squad which Smith has to try and get some semblance of a team out of, which is going to prove difficult.
People have to accept that this situation is not going to improve overnight and probably not till January when Smith may be able to get a whole new defence or at least one or two proper defenders in and a goalkeeper.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on October 26, 2018, 11:20:46 PM
Quote from: achilles on October 26, 2018, 11:18:25 PM
Bruce has left us with a totally unbalanced squad which Smith has to try and get some semblance of a team out of, which is going to prove difficult.
People have to accept that this situation is not going to improve overnight and probably not till January when Smith may be able to get a whole new defence or at least one or two proper defenders in and a goalkeeper.
I agree and I think our striker situation is also a problem.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on October 27, 2018, 12:11:13 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on October 26, 2018, 11:20:46 PM
Quote from: achilles on October 26, 2018, 11:18:25 PM
Bruce has left us with a totally unbalanced squad which Smith has to try and get some semblance of a team out of, which is going to prove difficult.
People have to accept that this situation is not going to improve overnight and probably not till January when Smith may be able to get a whole new defence or at least one or two proper defenders in and a goalkeeper.
I agree and I think our striker situation is also a problem.

There's nothing wrong with our strikers - we've got four strikers on the books who've scored more than 20 goals a season in this division.  The issue is with the system they've been played in, not the players themselves.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: West Derby Villan on October 27, 2018, 02:04:59 AM
Quote from: olaftab on October 26, 2018, 10:42:07 PM
Nothing much wrong with this start from Dean it’s the position he started from that is the problem.

Spot on, he's been here less than 2 weeks, without the benefit of a full Squad due to the international break, so what do you expect? He's taken over another managers team and he will attempt to mould them into his concept. That isn't going to happen overnight or even ten nights! Patience is the key, to open the AVFC conundrum
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on October 27, 2018, 07:27:19 AM
He's had a full squad this week surely? Bruce left him with a bum hand, no doubt, but he hasn't got the luxury of time on his side. We have an awful run of games before the transfer window might offer a glimmer of hope, but a lot of damage can be done between now and then thanks to a defence which can't defend and a midfield/ forward line without last season's goals/assists from Albert, Hourihane and Snoddy to name but three.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Matt Collins on October 27, 2018, 08:08:07 AM
We chose a manager with a clear method and approach that will take time

We'll improve if he gets it

People at the game last night reporting comments from some fans that he's no better than bruce; and multiple "get it forward " comments during the game

This is what will undo him. It's ridiculous
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on October 27, 2018, 08:16:00 AM
Yeah plenty of dead head comments.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on October 27, 2018, 08:21:06 AM
I must admit I didn’t hear any comments about Smith
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on October 27, 2018, 08:23:25 AM
Some Carling induced div was telling me how shit Grealish was though.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on October 27, 2018, 08:28:38 AM
Probably the same Carling induced div that got us an extra 40 minutes kettled in the rain at Millwall for yelling obscenities at the ground staff.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clark W Griswold on October 27, 2018, 08:42:48 AM
Quote from: Ads on October 27, 2018, 08:23:25 AM
Some Carling induced div was telling me how shit Grealish was though.

He has been for a fair chunk of this season, but he was decent at Norwich and back to looking like our best player last night.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on October 27, 2018, 08:49:41 AM
And he's going to be better if we can find a way for somebody else to drop deep.

It was a decent performance last night. We lacked maybe those clear cut chances we had against Swansea, but we should still have scored. The goal was an utter disaster.

I can be patient with this. I sense we'll be good at home and vulnerable away.

We can't be anymore than 9 adrift come January.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on October 27, 2018, 09:18:43 AM
I’m pretty happy with the formation he’s playing, I think it’s the best fit for the players available. Barney is close to making the DM position his own, the forwards look like being regularly rotated. Surprisingly I think Elmo has been the most consistent of them over the last three last games and he’s certainly the best crosser we have so it makes sense to have him high up the pitch.

I’m more confident now than I was when Smith was appointed.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on October 27, 2018, 09:24:22 AM
I'd see Elmo move to full back for Bolasie to come in wide.

Full backs are a big problem.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on October 27, 2018, 09:29:30 AM
Quote from: mr underhill on October 27, 2018, 07:27:19 AM
He's had a full squad this week surely?

Yes he has, but he's also had two games to get through this week as well. He's not going to get them playing to how he wants to overnight, it's something we'll have to be patient with. We just need to pick up some points along the way and last night we should have.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on October 27, 2018, 09:30:45 AM
I’m not sure about both Bolasie and Kodja both playing in a three, both are a bit maverick and we could return to the midfield sitting too far back as they don’t want to overcommit when either has the ball.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on October 27, 2018, 09:33:33 AM
Quote from: Ads on October 27, 2018, 09:24:22 AM
I'd see Elmo move to full back for Bolasie to come in wide.

Full backs are a big problem.

That's what i'd do as well. It was Hutton who should have gone off last night instead of Elmo. Like someone else has also said, I'd have put Jedinak on instead of Whelan but then again, he can't pass the ball either and we gave it away too many times in the first half as it was.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on October 27, 2018, 09:36:15 AM
Quote from: Ads on October 27, 2018, 09:24:22 AM
I'd see Elmo move to full back for Bolasie to come in wide.

Full backs are a big problem.
Definitely. The more I see of the much-feted Hutton the less I rate him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on October 27, 2018, 09:41:11 AM
I think he's going to persevere with this back four. Hopefully they'll now be drilled to the point that lines and gaps occupy their every thought.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: London Villan on October 27, 2018, 09:43:48 AM
Elmo for hutton would be my choice. At least he can cross when he does get forward.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on October 27, 2018, 09:54:49 AM
Tbf*, wasn't it Hutton that put in the cross when a defender somehow managed to nip in ahead of Abraham in front of goal? Good ball that, whoever it was.

*no inference should be taken from this that my opinion of our fullbacks is anything other than that they are generally shit.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on October 27, 2018, 11:12:05 AM
Quote from: mr underhill on October 27, 2018, 07:27:19 AM
He's had a full squad this week surely?
Yes he has he has also had to prepare for 3 matches in 7 days hardly time to study, reflect and properly plan. In those  matches he beat a very good Swansea team and lost 2 away by a single goal against  in form teams. The two defeats were not thrashings and with a bit of luck both could have gone our way. So ok 3 out 9 does not look good on paper but I think he has done well.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Richard on October 27, 2018, 11:26:37 AM
The problem here is that a lot of Villa fans expect and demand instant success - when you're crap for 8 years no one likes the thought of another season down in the Championship. Not helped by Wolves, Blues and Albion above us either.

 I do believe we need to give Smith this season and next at least to sort it out properly.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 27, 2018, 01:30:48 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if we still haven't done a full on training day with all the squad under him. A lot of clubs don't do them the day before and after a game and the way it's worked it with the international break is every day has been one of those days since they came back.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on October 27, 2018, 01:34:09 PM
we must have done some coaching because we are playing in a totally different way than what we did before

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 27, 2018, 01:37:29 PM
They'll be training obviously, but it probably won't have been full on sessions.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on October 27, 2018, 02:13:44 PM
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on October 27, 2018, 09:54:49 AM
Tbf*, wasn't it Hutton that put in the cross when a defender somehow managed to nip in ahead of Abraham in front of goal? Good ball that, whoever it was.

*no inference should be taken from this that my opinion of our fullbacks is anything other than that they are generally shit.

That was Elmo.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on October 27, 2018, 02:14:03 PM
If he didn't think he had his work cut out before, he will do now.  Another season in this godforsaken league, FFS.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on October 27, 2018, 02:15:58 PM
There were many positives about the game. But Dean is going to be limited by what he has. It’s remarkable to see a Villa side with so much possession.

It wasn’t a shock to see us completely inept in the final third because Bruce coached goals out of this team.

And it was completely expected to see us concede a stupid goal because that’s what Bruce left us with at the back. Sub standard footballers.

And the most expected thing was once we conceded we know we wouldn’t come back. And the players knew it too. Their confidence because of all the things I mentioned combined is just shot as soon as we fall behind.

These are all things that will take time and money to fix. In Dean I trust.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on October 27, 2018, 02:18:25 PM
Quote from: Ad@m on October 27, 2018, 02:13:44 PM
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on October 27, 2018, 09:54:49 AM
Tbf*, wasn't it Hutton that put in the cross when a defender somehow managed to nip in ahead of Abraham in front of goal? Good ball that, whoever it was.

*no inference should be taken from this that my opinion of our fullbacks is anything other than that they are generally shit.

That was Elmo.

That'll teach me to try and be nice!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Iamkmkm on October 27, 2018, 02:18:42 PM
May have lost yesterday, but we were playing some really good football, once we get going we will be unstoppable.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: FatSam on October 27, 2018, 02:41:46 PM
In the second half last night, when losing away from home (admittedly against a fairly average side) we were really going for it. There was a period where we had them on the ropes in a way that I don’t remember us doing under Bruce. Too many games recently we have just finished with a whimper.

I was there last night, and also away at Reading in Bruce’s first season, and we played a lot better last night. From memory the Reading game was a cagey affair, where we closed the it down and fed off scraps. I recall Bacuna having one of the best chances by just bundling through. Jedinak won everything in the air, but repeatedly gave the ball away.

Bruce made us difficult to beat, which is what we needed at the time. We need something different now, but still need to retain some defensive resilience. Despite all the possession we looked very vulnerable in transition last night. QPR broke incisively, and we didn’t know how to stop them. I suppose one solution would be to give the ball away less, but we don’t have the players for that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on October 27, 2018, 02:45:37 PM
I saw positive signs. I genuinely did. We played with a big of tempo, but January cannot come quick enough.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on October 27, 2018, 05:30:50 PM
We’re going to be just fine, the signs are there. There’s still a huge amount to do at BMH and probably a bit of tinkering with players (again) in January. However at least the players will be selected for our system and not just because we can get them.

If we’re here in this league next season I won’t be too worried now we have Deano and his team here.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on October 27, 2018, 05:56:01 PM
Unfortunately all new managers have to go through a process of trying to work out what they have and how to utilize them.
He has started by putting the most obvious players in the obvious positions and building from there.
You can see what he is trying to do but we have some pretty limited footballers.
As they say life is not about being dealt a good hand it’s playing a bad hand well.
I am glad he is our manager.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VinnieChase84 on October 29, 2018, 08:25:45 AM
Would not be surprised to see us make a move for Rico Henry
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Richard on October 29, 2018, 10:37:06 AM
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on October 29, 2018, 08:25:45 AM
Would not be surprised to see us make a move for Rico Henry

He's one of them but seems to have a lot of potential.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: badminton on October 29, 2018, 11:36:39 AM
Quote from: Richard on October 29, 2018, 10:37:06 AM
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on October 29, 2018, 08:25:45 AM
Would not be surprised to see us make a move for Rico Henry

He's one of them but seems to have a lot of potential.
He's also been injured more than fit over the past 3 years.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: jwarry on October 29, 2018, 11:47:18 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on October 27, 2018, 05:56:01 PM
Unfortunately all new managers have to go through a process of trying to work out what they have and how to utilize them.
He has started by putting the most obvious players in the obvious positions and building from there.
You can see what he is trying to do but we have some pretty limited footballers.
As they say life is not about being dealt a good hand it’s playing a bad hand well.
I am glad he is our manager.

The irony is that the one player in our back four we thought would be vulnerable is turning out to be our best defender.  The other three are experienced ex-Premier League players who seemingly aren't good enough for the Championship....
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: MalcolmP on October 29, 2018, 12:18:11 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on October 27, 2018, 02:15:58 PM

And the most expected thing was once we conceded we know we wouldn’t come back. And the players knew it too. Their confidence because of all the things I mentioned combined is just shot as soon as we fall behind.


???? We have more points gained from being behind than any other team in this league.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tomd2103 on October 29, 2018, 12:57:55 PM
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on October 29, 2018, 08:25:45 AM
Would not be surprised to see us make a move for Rico Henry

I think the first three Brentford players we would go for would be the keeper, Chris Mepham (centre half) and Ollie Watkins (wide forward). 

They would all cost decent money though and I'm not sure Brentford would be overly keen on selling to us. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VILLA MOLE on October 29, 2018, 01:10:21 PM
Quote from: tomd2103 on October 29, 2018, 12:57:55 PM
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on October 29, 2018, 08:25:45 AM
Would not be surprised to see us make a move for Rico Henry

I think the first three Brentford players we would go for would be the keeper, Chris Mepham (centre half) and Ollie Watkins (wide forward). 

They would all cost decent money though and I'm not sure Brentford would be overly keen on selling to us. 


I Don't think they would like us too much after that
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on October 29, 2018, 01:26:02 PM
I bet he's wondering what to do not having a game tonight.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on October 29, 2018, 01:51:51 PM
Quote from: tomd2103 on October 29, 2018, 12:57:55 PM
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on October 29, 2018, 08:25:45 AM
Would not be surprised to see us make a move for Rico Henry

I think the first three Brentford players we would go for would be the keeper, Chris Mepham (centre half) and Ollie Watkins (wide forward). 

They would all cost decent money though and I'm not sure Brentford would be overly keen on selling to us. 
We could send Hogan back in part-ex ....
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on October 29, 2018, 04:18:36 PM
Quote from: Mister E on October 29, 2018, 01:51:51 PM
Quote from: tomd2103 on October 29, 2018, 12:57:55 PM
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on October 29, 2018, 08:25:45 AM
Would not be surprised to see us make a move for Rico Henry

I think the first three Brentford players we would go for would be the keeper, Chris Mepham (centre half) and Ollie Watkins (wide forward). 

They would all cost decent money though and I'm not sure Brentford would be overly keen on selling to us. 
We could send Hogan back in part-ex ....

Not a bad shout at all.

On that podcast with the Brentford fan a week or so again he mentioned Mepham and reckoned that his next move would be to a Prem Club.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on October 29, 2018, 04:39:35 PM
i think we might be carried away with the Jan window thinking a lot of are problems will be over,
 i cant see it

we probably cant spend a load of money anyway and getting in quality players to replace half the team which is needed isn't going to happen in one window
just getting in a couple of defenders who can improve us will be a big result imo, but even that wont be easy
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on October 29, 2018, 05:16:54 PM
Spending money on new players is only part of the rebuild.  Without a sense of playing style and player discipline, coaching, intelligent tactical management, fitness, squad rotation planning, improved scouting including psychological assessments of targets and player morale reinforcement no rebuild is going to succeed or endure.  All our eggs are in the one basket.  That basket is Dean Smith.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on October 29, 2018, 05:28:13 PM
Apparently he still only gets three training sessions with them this week.  They were given the weekend off and are back in today, then they get a midweek day off.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on October 29, 2018, 05:39:38 PM
Just so long as there is time to put the hair dryer in their faces and tell them to take throw ins correctly and not score own goals with goalkeeper pass backs it will be a start.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: rougegorge on October 29, 2018, 06:04:16 PM
Quote from: tomd2103 on October 29, 2018, 12:57:55 PM
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on October 29, 2018, 08:25:45 AM
Would not be surprised to see us make a move for Rico Henry

I think the first three Brentford players we would go for would be the keeper, Chris Mepham (centre half) and Ollie Watkins (wide forward). 

They would all cost decent money though and I'm not sure Brentford would be overly keen on selling to us.

Not a bad shout, with the exception of the keeper, who's been having a nightmare and is very error prone.

Interesting that Brentford have gone to pot since Smith left, which could be taken as a good sign, although some of their fans are saying it had been on the cards. Sounds familiar? 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: jwarry on October 29, 2018, 06:20:16 PM
If this not an indictment of Bruceball I don’t know what is

https://www.avfc.co.uk/News/2018/10/29/axel-tuanzebe-youtube-interview
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on October 29, 2018, 06:33:05 PM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on October 29, 2018, 05:28:13 PM
Apparently he still only gets three training sessions with them this week.  They were given the weekend off and are back in today, then they get a midweek day off.

3 sessions for 1 game is better than 3 sessions for 3 games!

They're already adapting. We were no better or worse than Norwich, should have put 4 on Swansea and dominated QPR.

It will come.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SO Villa on October 29, 2018, 06:54:40 PM
Quote from: FatSam on October 27, 2018, 02:41:46 PM
In the second half last night, when losing away from home (admittedly against a fairly average side) we were really going for it. There was a period where we had them on the ropes in a way that I don’t remember us doing under Bruce. Too many games recently we have just finished with a whimper.

I was there last night, and also away at Reading in Bruce’s first season, and we played a lot better last night. From memory the Reading game was a cagey affair, where we closed the it down and fed off scraps. I recall Bacuna having one of the best chances by just bundling through. Jedinak won everything in the air, but repeatedly gave the ball away.

Bruce made us difficult to beat, which is what we needed at the time. We need something different now, but still need to retain some defensive resilience. Despite all the possession we looked very vulnerable in transition last night. QPR broke incisively, and we didn’t know how to stop them. I suppose one solution would be to give the ball away less, but we don’t have the players for that.

The point about us being vulnerable to the counter-attack is something I noticed as well. This is purely because, under Bruce, we committed so few players forward that we never exposed ourselves to the counter. That is the genius of Bruceball.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on October 30, 2018, 07:10:19 AM
Quote from: brian green on October 29, 2018, 05:16:54 PM
Spending money on new players is only part of the rebuild.  Without a sense of playing style and player discipline, coaching, intelligent tactical management, fitness, squad rotation planning, improved scouting including psychological assessments of targets and player morale reinforcement no rebuild is going to succeed or endure.  All our eggs are in the one basket.  That basket is Dean Smith.
Can't believe you called Dean Smith a basket. He's only been at the club 5 minutes 😉
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mallo on October 30, 2018, 12:44:31 PM
Quote from: jwarry on October 29, 2018, 06:20:16 PM
If this not an indictment of Bruceball I don’t know what is

https://www.avfc.co.uk/News/2018/10/29/axel-tuanzebe-youtube-interview

Very telling. Makes you wander what Bruce did all day. Certainly not talk to his coaches or 'prepare', whatever that is! Is Forestieri playing on Friday <winky thing>
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on October 30, 2018, 12:57:11 PM
Quote from: jwarry on October 29, 2018, 06:20:16 PM
If this not an indictment of Bruceball I don’t know what is

https://www.avfc.co.uk/News/2018/10/29/axel-tuanzebe-youtube-interview
Well, he comes across very well … my impression of him has really improved over the last 2-3 games. Yes, he is loose with his passing but I think he could become a very good CB, given more gametime.
What that idiot Bruce was doing playing him at RB defies belief.

What we need now is a really good LCB to play alongside either him or Chester. Right now, with the right LCB, I'd almost favour Tuanzebe.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on October 30, 2018, 02:22:05 PM
Younger players tend to respond better and quicker to coaching. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: jwarry on October 31, 2018, 09:40:06 AM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on October 30, 2018, 02:22:05 PM
Younger players tend to respond better and quicker to coaching. 

Do you know what, that is an excellent point.  Does make you wonder what Dean will do when he has time to stamp his mark.  Will we see a clear out of the old pros followed by an influx of new young and hungry and the likes of O'Hare getting a chance because they are prepared to listen?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nelson Lodge on November 02, 2018, 04:26:52 PM
According to Express & Star Deano has recruited  GK coach Neil Cutler from WBA. Knows him from his Walsall days. Plus according to Wiki Cutler was on Villa's books in 1999-2000 as a gk, playing one premier league game.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mallo on November 04, 2018, 10:19:28 PM
I see that Terry Henry isn’t pulling up any trees at Monaco... bullet dodged if indeed it was a bullet. In which case it was a non bullet, non story and this comment will self destruct.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on November 05, 2018, 08:41:01 AM
The new staff have had a very stop-start beginning to their coaching sessions at BH due to fixtures and internationals but from the very first game the improvements in playing style and tactics (I had to look that up) are obvious. Axel already looks ten times better, mainly due to him being played  his rightful position, and I was astounded in flashes at the difference they've made to Jacks game. At times he glides past players effortlessly only for some useless lump to hack him down. Given a few more weeks with the new staff and I believe Grealish will finally emerge into the player we all thought/hoped he would be. Exciting times ahead methinks.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Diablo on November 05, 2018, 08:45:13 AM
Quote from: mallo on November 04, 2018, 10:19:28 PM
I see that Terry Henry isn’t pulling up any trees at Monaco... bullet dodged if indeed it was a bullet. In which case it was a non bullet, non story and this comment will self destruct.
4 matches in - 2 losses and 2 draws (including a draw in the Champions League). Both loses by only 1 goal. So DS is currently 4 points better off with 2 wins and 2 defeats comparing the 4 games played. Monaco though are currently 2nd from bottom. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: WarszaVillan on November 05, 2018, 10:54:41 AM
Quote from: The Edge on November 05, 2018, 08:41:01 AM
The new staff have had a very stop-start beginning to their coaching sessions at BH due to fixtures and internationals but from the very first game the improvements in playing style and tactics (I had to look that up) are obvious. Axel already looks ten times better, mainly due to him being played  his rightful position, and I was astounded in flashes at the difference they've made to Jacks game. At times he glides past players effortlessly only for some useless lump to hack him down. Given a few more weeks with the new staff and I believe Grealish will finally emerge into the player we all thought/hoped he would be. Exciting times ahead methinks.

The goal showed what is possible. I think it's the first time I've ever seen Jack make a run beyond the back four and collect a through ball
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on November 05, 2018, 11:29:05 AM
I'm not altogether sure whether he's good enough to get us to where we want to be, but when we do get there it will be in no small part down to Smiffy. He's shown more progressive thinking in four weeks than our previous six managers combined.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on November 05, 2018, 11:35:44 AM
Quote from: mallo on October 30, 2018, 12:44:31 PM
Quote from: jwarry on October 29, 2018, 06:20:16 PM
If this not an indictment of Bruceball I don’t know what is

https://www.avfc.co.uk/News/2018/10/29/axel-tuanzebe-youtube-interview

Very telling. Makes you wander what Bruce did all day. Certainly not talk to his coaches or 'prepare', whatever that is! Is Forestieri playing on Friday <winky thing>

SB was just like MON, left most of the weeks training to Agnew, Calderwood and Clemence and then would view things on a Friday to make his presence felt.

He also said in an interview at Sunderland he wasn't interested much in the tactical side of football.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Walmley_Villa on November 05, 2018, 12:29:44 PM
Love the fact we have a coach that explains things...

Most of our previous mangers have been quite arrogant and condescending to the fanbase. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on November 05, 2018, 01:03:22 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on November 05, 2018, 11:29:05 AM
I'm not altogether sure whether he's good enough to get us to where we want to be, but when we do get there it will be in no small part down to Smiffy. He's shown more progressive thinking in four weeks than our previous six managers combined.

I agree. I guess it's the same with any manager, who knows if they're good enough until they try? He is at least training players, identifying areas to improve, making changes during games and the revelation of showing Grealish 3 clips at half-time to improve his second half is quite unique.

He'll have the ability with us to do whatever it is he wants to do. There will be no restrictions on technology, equipment or facilities.

It's been nice to watch us play the last few games, and the possession statistics are something else in comparison to what we're used to. They say possession doesn't indicate anything, but what it does do is stop the opposition being able to score, allows players to have more opportunity to create something and gives the fans something to hold on to.

I think this will be a ride we'll all enjoy.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on November 05, 2018, 01:59:40 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on November 05, 2018, 11:29:05 AM
I'm not altogether sure whether he's good enough to get us to where we want to be, but when we do get there it will be in no small part down to Smiffy. He's shown more progressive thinking in four weeks than our previous six managers combined.

Are you suggesting he was a better appointment than early betting favourite David Moyes would have been?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Diablo on November 05, 2018, 03:23:46 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on November 05, 2018, 11:29:05 AM
I'm not altogether sure whether he's good enough to get us to where we want to be, but when we do get there it will be in no small part down to Smiffy. He's shown more progressive thinking in four weeks than our previous six managers combined.
Dave, who are you not sure is good enough? Axel? Or Jack? I initially read it as Axel but on re-reading The Edge's post again thought you may have meant Jack.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Richard on November 05, 2018, 03:48:00 PM
Quote from: Diablo on November 05, 2018, 03:23:46 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on November 05, 2018, 11:29:05 AM
I'm not altogether sure whether he's good enough to get us to where we want to be, but when we do get there it will be in no small part down to Smiffy. He's shown more progressive thinking in four weeks than our previous six managers combined.
Dave, who are you not sure is good enough? Axel? Or Jack? I initially read it as Axel but on re-reading The Edge's post again thought you may have meant Jack.


I think Dave means Smith.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Diablo on November 05, 2018, 04:11:13 PM
Quote from: Richard on November 05, 2018, 03:48:00 PM
Quote from: Diablo on November 05, 2018, 03:23:46 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on November 05, 2018, 11:29:05 AM
I'm not altogether sure whether he's good enough to get us to where we want to be, but when we do get there it will be in no small part down to Smiffy. He's shown more progressive thinking in four weeks than our previous six managers combined.
Dave, who are you not sure is good enough? Axel? Or Jack? I initially read it as Axel but on re-reading The Edge's post again thought you may have meant Jack.


I think Dave means Smith.
Oh right, I really did get the wrong end of the stick then.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on November 08, 2018, 02:01:03 PM


Fuck me! A manager who references Guardiola like he's in the same profession as him, and that he can learn from him, rather than thinking of him a a mystical being who must be feared. This could end up turning out ok.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on November 08, 2018, 03:02:05 PM
As long as we don’t see any backpasses from our goalkeeper...
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: boozey182 on November 08, 2018, 04:12:48 PM
When Bruce spoke, I would think "he doesn't know very much about modern football". When Smith speaks I think "I don't know very much about modern football". And that's exactly what I want from a manager.  We'll be fine with him, I'm sure of it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on November 08, 2018, 06:32:00 PM
Quote from: boozey182 on November 08, 2018, 04:12:48 PM
When Bruce spoke, I would think "he doesn't know very much about modern football". When Smith speaks I think "I don't know very much about modern football". And that's exactly what I want from a manager.  We'll be fine with him, I'm sure of it.

Exactly right, I feel the same.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on November 08, 2018, 06:34:07 PM
Me too.  Plus he actually looks like a manager.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on November 08, 2018, 07:52:15 PM
Quote from: Risso on November 08, 2018, 06:32:00 PM
Quote from: boozey182 on November 08, 2018, 04:12:48 PM
When Bruce spoke, I would think "he doesn't know very much about modern football". When Smith speaks I think "I don't know very much about modern football". And that's exactly what I want from a manager.  We'll be fine with him, I'm sure of it.

Exactly right, I feel the same.

i watched all that 10 minute clip that was posted

my biggest fear about Smith was he is British and I have a really low opinion of British managers at the moment
 (I admit I’m a bit paranoid about it)
the old ones doing the rounds and the younger ones not much better than clones of them, not a tactical plan amongst them apart from ‘keeping it tight’

but he talks better than I expected, it’s actually like listening to a foreign manager talking tactics with a brummie accent

as for Bruce I never listened to one press conference not a single one
I was never interested in anything he had to say for two years I just turned him off
I got the gist of things from on here so I did know about the ‘thereabouts’ stuff, I just couldn’t bear the guy trying to talk football

I was really pleased when Smith got appointed but I dare say it was probably more to do with finally saying goodbye to Bruce than anything to do with Smith

but I think he’s been really impressive not just talking a good game but actually seeing it taking shape on the pitch
not perfect and loads of room for improvement but that’s a good thing

really do think we might have found the right one this time
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tomd2103 on November 09, 2018, 12:54:05 AM
Quote from: brian green on November 08, 2018, 06:34:07 PM
Me too.  Plus he actually looks like a manager.

Can't seem to get rid of that cough though!!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on November 09, 2018, 09:39:26 AM
Quote from: tomd2103 on November 09, 2018, 12:54:05 AM
Quote from: brian green on November 08, 2018, 06:34:07 PM
Me too.  Plus he actually looks like a manager.

Can't seem to get rid of that cough though!!

I know how he feels.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clark W Griswold on November 09, 2018, 10:39:52 AM
It is starting to look like the last great British manager being Ferguson. Last English manager to win the top flight championship? Howard Wilkinson, Leeds 92. Therefore the PL has never been won by an Englishman? In fact I don't think there's been many over the past 30 years, although there have been a few Scots, Dalglish and Graham in addition to Fergie. Last English manager to win the 2nd tier...?
How many have managed in the CL..?
I do think Smith is the right man for us at this point and he'll do well though. But from those stats you can see what John and Dave are saying about the long term.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Diablo on November 09, 2018, 02:52:16 PM
Quote from: tomd2103 on November 09, 2018, 12:54:05 AM
Quote from: brian green on November 08, 2018, 06:34:07 PM
Me too.  Plus he actually looks like a manager.

Can't seem to get rid of that cough though!!
That's a concern, does anyone know if he smokes?

And whilst we're on the subject of the videos, why doesn't someone edit them properly? Looks really amateurish/pish.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: clash city rocker on November 09, 2018, 03:59:10 PM
One day another English manager will win the premiership. Why shouldn't it be Dean Smith.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on November 09, 2018, 07:20:37 PM
Quote from: clash city rocker on November 09, 2018, 03:59:10 PM
One day another English manager will win the premiership. Why shouldn't it be Dean Smith.

[Dave] Because it doesn't exist. [/Dave]
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT on November 09, 2018, 07:41:26 PM
Quote from: tomd2103 on November 09, 2018, 12:54:05 AM
Quote from: brian green on November 08, 2018, 06:34:07 PM
Me too.  Plus he actually looks like a manager.

Can't seem to get rid of that cough though!!

Bob Fleming.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brentastonb6 on November 09, 2018, 11:32:13 PM
Quote from: brian green on November 08, 2018, 06:34:07 PM
Me too.  Plus he actually looks like a manager.
Yep, he looks like he could take part in the training sessions  not just hear from his coaches what had happened.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on November 10, 2018, 12:37:31 AM
Looks like Deano is looking to bring in a set pieces coach at some point.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on November 10, 2018, 01:04:16 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on November 10, 2018, 12:37:31 AM
Looks like Deano is looking to bring in a set pieces coach at some point.

Can they start with throw ins?! I've been waiting a decade or more to see a Villa team actually know what to do with a throw in.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: algy on November 10, 2018, 01:25:02 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on November 10, 2018, 12:37:31 AM
Looks like Deano is looking to bring in a set pieces coach at some point.
See, I've been wondering about this. The club pay, what, at least £5000 a week per player on wages, even for cheapish squad players, so £250,000 per year. You'd think at a bare minimum they could afford £50000 a year to get someone with a sports science degree as a coach / personal trainer for each player.

The amount of money the club has pissed up the wall on Micah Richards alone, there's no reason why the club shouldn't be spending good money to get the same marginal gains that Team GB do in cycling. They should be squeezing out that extra 1% passing accuracy, 1% better throw-ins, making the players 1% faster, ....

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on November 10, 2018, 01:45:24 PM
Would a 1% better throw in be passing it to the opposition's head rather than their feet?!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on November 10, 2018, 02:48:32 PM
Quote from: Ad@m on November 10, 2018, 01:04:16 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on November 10, 2018, 12:37:31 AM
Looks like Deano is looking to bring in a set pieces coach at some point.

Can they start with throw ins?! I've been waiting a decade or more to see a Villa team actually know what to do with a throw in.

Was listening to Klopp the other day who said he brought in a coach to oversee throw ins.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on November 10, 2018, 02:57:54 PM
It's something that occurs, what, dozens of times in a game? The more I think about it, the dafter it seems to not have a thoroughly professional approach to what should be an advantageous situation.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ez on November 10, 2018, 05:17:31 PM
3 wins from 6 games for Dean. He's already matched Bruce for league wins this season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dave P on November 10, 2018, 05:20:48 PM
Quote from: ez on November 10, 2018, 05:17:31 PM
3 wins from 6 games for Dean. He's already matched Bruce for league wins this season.

3 wins from 5 games
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on November 10, 2018, 05:20:55 PM
He’s the real deal....this time I’ll say it with confidence.
Now we’re being coached and not just managed (badly).
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on November 10, 2018, 05:21:35 PM
Last 3 games we've had 18, 17 and 21 shots.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on November 10, 2018, 05:23:29 PM
Hi Dean, is there a Mrs Smith? Asking for a 'friend' as I don't love you loads at all. Honest.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: jwarry on November 10, 2018, 05:23:44 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on November 10, 2018, 05:21:35 PM
Last 3 games we've had 18, 17 and 21 shots.

Blimey!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ez on November 10, 2018, 05:29:37 PM
Quote from: Dave P on November 10, 2018, 05:20:48 PM
Quote from: ez on November 10, 2018, 05:17:31 PM
3 wins from 5 games for Dean. He's already matched Bruce for league wins this season.

3 wins from 5 games
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ez on November 10, 2018, 05:30:22 PM
Quote from: ez on November 10, 2018, 05:29:37 PM
Quote from: Dave P on November 10, 2018, 05:20:48 PM
Quote from: ez on November 10, 2018, 05:17:31 PM
3 wins from 5 games for Dean. He's already matched Bruce for league wins this season.

3 wins from 5 games

Corrected. Thanks.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rigadon on November 10, 2018, 05:33:42 PM
What I like (on top of 3-0 away wins) is that Dean Smith didn't show any signs of panic after those dodgy couple of results.  He really might be the manager wee been waiting for since MON flounced. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dave P on November 10, 2018, 05:38:05 PM
Let’s not get carried away. I’m sure a Steve Bruce team would have won 3-0 with more possession, shots and passes.  Lol.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on November 10, 2018, 05:38:40 PM
Quote from: Rigadon on November 10, 2018, 05:33:42 PM
What I like (on top of 3-0 away wins) is that Dean Smith didn't show any signs of panic after those dodgy couple of results.  He really might be the manager wee been waiting for since MON flounced. 

Fuck MON.

Dean could be the manager we've been waiting for since He Who Walks On Water left.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villatillidie1982 on November 10, 2018, 05:40:59 PM
Quote from: Rigadon on November 10, 2018, 05:33:42 PM
What I like (on top of 3-0 away wins) is that Dean Smith didn't show any signs of panic after those dodgy couple of results.  He really might be the manager wee been waiting for since MON flounced.
Martin O'Neill was the start of all of the problems. Don't compare him with Dean Smith just yet.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on November 10, 2018, 05:44:23 PM
Let's all calm down a bit. We'd be absolutely destroying them if this thread was on SHA.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on November 10, 2018, 05:46:59 PM
Or better still, fucking enjoy playing well for once and not give a fuck what anyone else thinks.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Diablo on November 10, 2018, 05:48:47 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on November 10, 2018, 05:23:29 PM
Hi Dean, is there a Mrs Smith? Asking for a 'friend' as I don't love you loads at all. Honest.
Hahaha! I've got to admit there was a point I was concerned for your well being (after the Bristol City and Millwall match lowlights posts) and I was worried you'd be tipped over the edge/forever lost down the rabbit hole, during the gruelling course of the season. Delighted to know that you're now perfectly fine and that you lead the long and healthy DS man crush queue. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: clash city rocker on November 10, 2018, 05:49:03 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on November 10, 2018, 05:46:59 PM
Or better still, fucking enjoy playing well for once and not give a fuck what anyone else thinks.

Enjoy the moment...I fuckin am
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on November 10, 2018, 05:51:50 PM
Quote from: Ad@m on November 10, 2018, 05:44:23 PM
Let's all calm down a bit. We'd be absolutely destroying them if this thread was on SHA.

I can't recall a single away performance like that 2nd half in years and years. It was a bit special.

We're going up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on November 10, 2018, 05:53:36 PM
After all the shit we've had for so long, who gives a tuppeny fuck what anybody else thinks.  Smith has got a plan and a vision, and we're only going to get better.  That performance and result today will have the rest of the league shitting themselves.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on November 10, 2018, 05:54:39 PM
This result will be great for confidence ·······Still early days but he is obviously making a difference already - if the plug had been pulled on Bruce a few games earlier who knows where we would stand currently - onwards and upwards - hopefully with reinforcements in January we can kick on and secure at least a play off spot - exciting times ahead I hope


Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: gpbarr on November 10, 2018, 05:55:38 PM
The messiah
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on November 10, 2018, 05:56:03 PM
Quote from: Ad@m on November 10, 2018, 05:44:23 PM
Let's all calm down a bit. We'd be absolutely destroying them if this thread was on SHA.

We've just destroyed one of the promotion favourites away. I'd be surprised if any supporters wouldn't be celebrating.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on November 10, 2018, 05:56:21 PM
Quote from: Ad@m on November 10, 2018, 05:44:23 PM
Let's all calm down a bit. We'd be absolutely destroying them if this thread was on SHA.

If you look at his time at Brentford, Smith set his teams out to play the exact same way every week. No matter the opponent.

No team wins every week, and for his time there at this level his success was directly correlated to available resources. If we have a defined, positive approach coupled with significantly superior resources, now and in January we will have every chance of maintaining this level of play. The players are growing in belief. You saw that today. And the result will be such a boost for them. It will validate what the manager and coaches have been preaching. It’s enjoyable to play this way, and even better when we win.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rigadon on November 10, 2018, 06:00:25 PM
Quote from: LeeB on November 10, 2018, 05:38:40 PM
Quote from: Rigadon on November 10, 2018, 05:33:42 PM
What I like (on top of 3-0 away wins) is that Dean Smith didn't show any signs of panic after those dodgy couple of results.  He really might be the manager wee been waiting for since MON flounced. 

Fuck MON.

Dean could be the manager we've been waiting for since He Who Walks On Water left.

Haha!  I get where you're coming from.  I suppose I meant that we've had a collection of bad / underwhelming / bizarre appointments since MON, who for a while brought the club close to where it should be.  Let's hope Smith actually does that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on November 10, 2018, 06:03:43 PM
Quote from: Ad@m on November 10, 2018, 05:44:23 PM
Let's all calm down a bit. We'd be absolutely destroying them if this thread was on SHA.
Yes quite however I posted at HT that I had heard enough from the first half to realise that this was a different Villa and even a non positive result would have not altered that fact. We went on to have a better second half  and that's been rare in the past few seasons.  Of course  last season we fell short after similar results v Wolves/SHA/Cardiff so the trick now would be be to keep improving.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on November 10, 2018, 06:06:07 PM
Early days of MON was the last time I felt like we had a manager who could outthink his opponents and knew significantly more about management than the average fan. Have the same feeling about Smith.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on November 10, 2018, 06:08:53 PM
Quote from: Risso on November 10, 2018, 05:53:36 PM
After all the shit we've had for so long, who gives a tuppeny fuck what anybody else thinks.  Smith has got a plan and a vision, and we're only going to get better.  That performance and result today will have the rest of the league shitting themselves.

Exactly. Today was no one-off, we've seen hints of it these last four weeks. We've finally arrived to the 21st century.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VillaAlways on November 10, 2018, 06:09:37 PM
“ I told the lads I’ve come here for the win not a draw”

Music to my ears
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rigadon on November 10, 2018, 06:11:16 PM
Quote from: themossman on November 10, 2018, 06:06:07 PM
Early days of MON was the last time I felt like we had a manager who could outthink his opponents and knew significantly more about management than the average fan. Have the same feeling about Smith.


Same.  But MON also was the right 'fit' for Villa in a way that Smith also feels - that is so important for a manager I think.  It could be the start of something really great. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on November 10, 2018, 06:11:49 PM
Quote from: VillaAlways on November 10, 2018, 06:09:37 PM
“ I told the lads I’ve come here for the win not a draw”

Music to my ears

He goes into every game irrespective of the opponent with that approach. I fucking love it. I enjoyed it when watching Brentford. No fear at all. The belief this will build in the squad is just enormous.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on November 10, 2018, 06:18:23 PM
Also it’s just the bleedin’ obvious approach when you’ve got an embarrassment of attacking options compared with all your opponents, as we’ve had the whole time we’ve been down here. Damn Bruce.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on November 10, 2018, 06:22:02 PM
On paper the Villa squad is probably worth close to £150m. The forwards at the club, and I include Hogan and RM has to worth £60-75m alone. Whereas we should been playing with big dick owning swagger given those resources Bruce reduced us to a neutered shitting, shaking puppy.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on November 10, 2018, 06:26:16 PM
Yep. Today is great but it makes me feel a bit sick about the last 2 seasons.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on November 10, 2018, 07:04:42 PM
Quote from: Ads on November 10, 2018, 05:51:50 PM
Quote from: Ad@m on November 10, 2018, 05:44:23 PM
Let's all calm down a bit. We'd be absolutely destroying them if this thread was on SHA.

I can't recall a single away performance like that 2nd half in years and years. It was a bit special.

We're going up.

In the first half when we kept missing it actually reminded me of Brighton away which was probably along with Boro second leg our best away performance under SB when you consider the opposition.

We didn't kick on after that performance, hopefully we do now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chris Smith on November 10, 2018, 07:10:07 PM
Quote from: themossman on November 10, 2018, 06:26:16 PM
Yep. Today is great but it makes me feel a bit sick about the last 2 seasons.

Don’t look back...
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on November 10, 2018, 07:20:58 PM
I bloody love Dean Smith, his post match comments are a breath of fresh air.  I'm now less worried about the job being too big for him, and am instead nervous about how he'll react when Real Madrid come a knocking! ;)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: JUAN PABLO on November 10, 2018, 07:30:42 PM
Cloud Nine..


Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on November 10, 2018, 07:33:18 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on November 10, 2018, 06:22:02 PM
On paper the Villa squad is probably worth close to £150m. The forwards at the club, and I include Hogan and RM has to worth £60-75m alone. Whereas we should been playing with big dick owning swagger given those resources Bruce reduced us to a neutered shitting, shaking puppy.

Pretty much this, everything about Bruce screamed of a manager who preferred being the underdog but you just can't do that when you've got one of the best squads in the league and are manager of the biggest club outside the top flight. Everyone at the club should know that we will always be a bigger club than everyone we've faced since relegation and we should play with that in mind, no complacent but confident that our players are just too good. If we can drill that into them (Grealish and McGinn in particular will benefit from this) we've got nothing to be scared of in this league.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villafirst on November 10, 2018, 07:40:13 PM
And to think, some people said the Villa job would be too big for Dean Smith....
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on November 10, 2018, 07:46:39 PM
My only concern about Smith is how he'll react to a big defeat (no necessarily a high score, just an important game). If he sticks to what he knows and treats it as a blip then he'll be fine, if it plays on his mind then his lack of big club experience might be a problem. I suspect he'll do the former but until it happens it'll still be te small concern in the background.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villafirst on November 10, 2018, 07:52:39 PM
Quote from: paul_e on November 10, 2018, 07:46:39 PM
My only concern about Smith is how he'll react to a big defeat (no necessarily a high score, just an important game). If he sticks to what he knows and treats it as a blip then he'll be fine, if it plays on his mind then his lack of big club experience might be a problem. I suspect he'll do the former but until it happens it'll still be te small concern in the background.

You mean like the Norwich defeat?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on November 10, 2018, 07:52:56 PM
Quote from: paul_e on November 10, 2018, 07:46:39 PM
My only concern about Smith is how he'll react to a big defeat (no necessarily a high score, just an important game). If he sticks to what he knows and treats it as a blip then he'll be fine, if it plays on his mind then his lack of big club experience might be a problem. I suspect he'll do the former but until it happens it'll still be te small concern in the background.

So a quick anorak moment. Last season Brentford lost 3-0 (their heaviest loss scoreline) at Wolves and came back to win 2 straight games. A couple of months later they lost by the same scoreline at Derby and came back to draw, then 2 wins which included a 5-0 lampooning of the rags. Season before that they lost 5-0 at Norwich and came back to win the next 2.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Holy Trinity on November 10, 2018, 07:54:26 PM
I think we may have found our Alex Ferguson here. Not saying we are going to dominate world football for 20 years like United tried and for the most part did.
I more mean how he had united playing exactly how he wanted them and it didn't matter what 11 he put out they always looked pretty much the same and as a result the club rebuilt around the success.
I really think barring a disastrous injury to one of our key players that the prem next season is a real possibility and challenging for the top 6 and cups within a few season is also a real possibility and all the while building a real legacy at villa. I like to think Smith wouldn't  turn his back on us for a chance at a bigger club down the line. But let's face it if the big boys are sniffing we will have to be in a very good position anyway.

I am very positive again now
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on November 10, 2018, 07:56:03 PM
Thing is you don't need to be Alex Ferguson to play a defined style and commit to it. You can be Chris Wilder or Eddie Howe. You just cannot be Steve F Bruce.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on November 10, 2018, 07:57:13 PM
I'm not sure about us finding an Alex Ferguson. I'd say we've possibly found our own Eddie Howe.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on November 10, 2018, 07:58:09 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on November 10, 2018, 07:56:03 PM
Thing is you don't need to be Alex Ferguson to play a defined style and commit to it. You can be Chris Wilder or Eddie Howe. You just cannot be Steve F Bruce.

Bruce has gone. Let it go. Just try looking forward.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on November 10, 2018, 08:01:57 PM
Bruce held us back massively, even to his biggest supporters it must be obvious now considering what the same players are capable of under Smith. So as it was only 6 weeks ago that we looked like a bag of shit people aren't going to stop mentioning it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on November 10, 2018, 08:04:04 PM
Promotion is way more than a 'possibility' - we're only 7 points off automatic with almost 30 matches still to go. 

To hit that magical 2 points per game total (which may not be necessary this year given how largely crap the division is) we need 68 points from 29 games.  That's 21 wins, 5 draws, and 3 losses. 

To put that in to context, after 17 games last season Fulham were 17th.  In their next 29 matches they won 21, drew 5 and lost 3.

It's on...
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on November 10, 2018, 08:05:19 PM
Quote from: Clampy on November 10, 2018, 07:58:09 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on November 10, 2018, 07:56:03 PM
Thing is you don't need to be Alex Ferguson to play a defined style and commit to it. You can be Chris Wilder or Eddie Howe. You just cannot be Steve F Bruce.

Bruce has gone. Let it go. Just try looking forward.

You're right. But given how massively different it is now it's not unusual that people are going to reference the former manager for context. And we're on a place where MON was discussed ad nauseum many years after his departure.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on November 10, 2018, 08:07:28 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on November 10, 2018, 08:01:57 PM
Bruce held us back massively, even to his biggest supporters it must be obvious now considering what the same players are capable of under Smith. So as it was only 6 weeks ago that we looked like a bag of shit people aren't going to stop mentioning it.

Maybe not but he's gone now. I prefer to look forward. Mind you, Paul Lambert still has his own thread and we've had 4 managers since he went.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on November 10, 2018, 08:11:31 PM
I doubt the fans of any club on the planet have stopped talking a manager 6 weeks after he left. Especially when the gulf in ability between the old and new is already looking massive.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VillaAlways on November 10, 2018, 08:11:54 PM

(https://thumb.ibb.co/kdtVkA/A7074-C89-9-ED3-4064-8-EE3-F4-CDC3-E2-C804.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kdtVkA)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brassneck on November 10, 2018, 08:34:44 PM
I always said that it was a mistake to have sacked Bruce.  ;D
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on November 10, 2018, 09:41:14 PM
Paul McGrath
@Paulmcgrath5
·
4h
Dean Smith so much respect to you pal  #UTV
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OCD on November 10, 2018, 10:03:30 PM
Quote from: Ad@m on November 10, 2018, 08:04:04 PM
Promotion is way more than a 'possibility' - we're only 7 points off automatic with almost 30 matches still to go. 

To hit that magical 2 points per game total (which may not be necessary this year given how largely crap the division is) we need 68 points from 29 games.  That's 21 wins, 5 draws, and 3 losses. 

To put that in to context, after 17 games last season Fulham were 17th.  In their next 29 matches they won 21, drew 5 and lost 3.

It's on...

With how the league is this year, it should be quite a bit lower points tally needed to get one of the top 2 spots too.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on November 11, 2018, 07:42:29 AM
Last season we didn't kick on from our best performance and had a mini slump.

Smith can be streaky, but we have a significantly better squad than Brentford and have, for this league, bags and bags of quality.

I'm hopeful that's a marker of what we can expect rather than a one off. Given the way things have been progressing I am hopeful we'll actually get better.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on November 11, 2018, 07:52:55 AM
Should also add that these 3 clean sheets are very welcome. The goal difference is starting to look better.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on November 11, 2018, 10:04:28 AM
Quote from: Ads on November 11, 2018, 07:42:29 AM
Last season we didn't kick on from our best performance and had a mini slump.

Smith can be streaky, but we have a significantly better squad than Brentford and have, for this league, bags and bags of quality.

I'm hopeful that's a marker of what we can expect rather than a one off. Given the way things have been progressing I am hopeful we'll actually get better.

The knuckle draggers game will be a good marker.  Hopefully we dispatch them like the scrotes they are, and don't get embroiled in a war of attrition.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on November 11, 2018, 10:07:39 AM
Quote from: Ads on November 11, 2018, 07:42:29 AM
Last season we didn't kick on from our best performance and had a mini slump.

Smith can be streaky, but we have a significantly better squad than Brentford and have, for this league, bags and bags of quality.

I'm hopeful that's a marker of what we can expect rather than a one off. Given the way things have been progressing I am hopeful we'll actually get better.

the performances have been pretty good though with Smith whether winning or losing
he might get streaky results but the performances are pretty solid

shows we have a more defined style now and that will improve with more time
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on November 11, 2018, 10:14:30 AM
Add a decent left back and I think we will be even stronger. Possibly an upgrade for deeper centre mid too.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kipeye on November 11, 2018, 10:17:04 AM
Quote from: Newby on November 11, 2018, 10:14:30 AM
Add a decent left back and I think we will be even stronger. Possibly an upgrade for deeper centre mid too.
I really think he should try Albert at full back. He tackles well and reminds me of Young defensively.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: old man villa fan on November 11, 2018, 10:20:35 AM
The mark of a good manager is the players he brings in how he deals with the existing players that  they replace. Ferguson was excellent at this. You cannot allow yourself to have soft-spots for players you like.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Leicester_Villian on November 11, 2018, 12:10:42 PM
I can't see this policy that Dean is using ver catching on:

Playing players in the correct positions
Playing with a high tempo
Playing to score again when winning

We really need midfielders at etc back ....... pass sideways and backwards ..... need 11 behind the ball when we go one up

As one manager recently said "that will shut a few up" which I think was after edging a win against the massive Rotherham .... not sure what a 3-0 win against inform Derby does for comments

The next one is still massive !!!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villafirst on November 11, 2018, 12:15:46 PM
Quote from: Newby on November 11, 2018, 10:14:30 AM
Add a decent left back and I think we will be even stronger. Possibly an upgrade for deeper centre mid too.

That twat Joe Bryan chased the dollar with Fulham. I see they're occupying bottom place in PL Table, shame. They spent huge sums after the play-off final. I can see them in trouble financially when they get relegated.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on November 11, 2018, 12:52:40 PM
Just shows what can happen when you put your boots on and roll your sleeves up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on November 11, 2018, 12:57:59 PM
Quote from: Villafirst on November 11, 2018, 12:15:46 PM
Quote from: Newby on November 11, 2018, 10:14:30 AM
Add a decent left back and I think we will be even stronger. Possibly an upgrade for deeper centre mid too.

That twat Joe Bryan chased the dollar with Fulham. I see they're occupying bottom place in PL Table, shame. They spent huge sums after the play-off final. I can see them in trouble financially when they get relegated.

I don't blame him too much. He was offered Premier League football as well as more money. I think plenty of other players would have made the same decision.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VILLA MOLE on November 11, 2018, 01:03:00 PM
Quote from: Clampy on November 11, 2018, 12:57:59 PM
Quote from: Villafirst on November 11, 2018, 12:15:46 PM
Quote from: Newby on November 11, 2018, 10:14:30 AM
Add a decent left back and I think we will be even stronger. Possibly an upgrade for deeper centre mid too.

That twat Joe Bryan chased the dollar with Fulham. I see they're occupying bottom place in PL Table, shame. They spent huge sums after the play-off final. I can see them in trouble financially when they get relegated.

I don't blame him too much. He was offered Premier League football as well as more money. I think plenty of other players would have made the same decision.

yes in what was a good Fulham team going up ,,,,, eeek !!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on November 11, 2018, 01:03:09 PM
Quote from: Clampy on November 11, 2018, 12:57:59 PM
Quote from: Villafirst on November 11, 2018, 12:15:46 PM
Quote from: Newby on November 11, 2018, 10:14:30 AM
Add a decent left back and I think we will be even stronger. Possibly an upgrade for deeper centre mid too.

That twat Joe Bryan chased the dollar with Fulham. I see they're occupying bottom place in PL Table, shame. They spent huge sums after the play-off final. I can see them in trouble financially when they get relegated.

I don't blame him too much. He was offered Premier League football as well as more money. I think plenty of other players would have made the same decision.

Agreed. Disappointing he bailed out last minute but imagine we've signed plenty of players in similar circumstances.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on November 11, 2018, 02:38:04 PM
Quote from: Ads on November 11, 2018, 07:42:29 AM
Smith can be streaky, but we have a significantly better squad than Brentford and have, for this league, bags and bags of quality.

Interesting quote from Smith last night on how quickly the players are adapting to the new training methods which he put down to their quality. Added that it is now a challenge for him and his coaches to respond and to keep improving the sessions.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Pvb1968 on November 11, 2018, 06:18:56 PM
He's had a good look at the squad and will now know what he wants. The bloke is a massive breath of fresh air, no guarantee of anything but all the chancers have been fecked off.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on November 11, 2018, 06:38:38 PM
Why move the post-match thread so quickly to the graveyard of the old match threads? We'll still be discussing and revelling in the Derby game at least til we're back at work tomorrow. Go on, have a heart.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on November 11, 2018, 08:31:45 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on November 11, 2018, 02:38:04 PM
Quote from: Ads on November 11, 2018, 07:42:29 AM
Smith can be streaky, but we have a significantly better squad than Brentford and have, for this league, bags and bags of quality.

Interesting quote from Smith last night on how quickly the players are adapting to the new training methods which he put down to their quality. Added that it is now a challenge for him and his coaches to respond and to keep improving the sessions.

"Training methods", we've got training methods.

Christ. At last.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Martin Carruthers on November 11, 2018, 08:36:50 PM
Imagine we worked on rolling our sleeves up & getting stuck in previously.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OCD on November 11, 2018, 09:07:32 PM
Quote from: Clampy on November 11, 2018, 12:57:59 PM
Quote from: Villafirst on November 11, 2018, 12:15:46 PM
Quote from: Newby on November 11, 2018, 10:14:30 AM
Add a decent left back and I think we will be even stronger. Possibly an upgrade for deeper centre mid too.

That twat Joe Bryan chased the dollar with Fulham. I see they're occupying bottom place in PL Table, shame. They spent huge sums after the play-off final. I can see them in trouble financially when they get relegated.

I don't blame him too much. He was offered Premier League football as well as more money. I think plenty of other players would have made the same decision.

Didn't Fulham screw him over by then going and signing another left back straight after signing him?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: clash city rocker on November 11, 2018, 09:10:00 PM
Quote from: OCD on November 11, 2018, 09:07:32 PM
Quote from: Clampy on November 11, 2018, 12:57:59 PM
Quote from: Villafirst on November 11, 2018, 12:15:46 PM
Quote from: Newby on November 11, 2018, 10:14:30 AM
Add a decent left back and I think we will be even stronger. Possibly an upgrade for deeper centre mid too.

That twat Joe Bryan chased the dollar with Fulham. I see they're occupying bottom place in PL Table, shame. They spent huge sums after the play-off final. I can see them in trouble financially when they get relegated.

I don't blame him too much. He was offered Premier League football as well as more money. I think plenty of other players would have made the same decision.

Didn't Fulham screw him over by then going and signing another left back straight after signing him?

Don't think he was even in their squad today.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on November 11, 2018, 09:53:02 PM
Be great to get a left back and another central midfielder in.  Let Whelan and Jedi go sooner than expected and replace them with a footballing tough nut, if we can find one. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on November 11, 2018, 10:09:55 PM
Poxy international break!  I hope they all come back fit and chomping at the bit.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Iamkmkm on November 11, 2018, 11:01:08 PM
This man knows what he is doing, and feels so good to a have a villa fan in charge aswell.

Let's hope that the dark days are over!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: darren woolley on November 12, 2018, 10:32:32 AM
I'm so happy with what I'm seeing and hearing from him it's so refreshing long may it continue.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on November 12, 2018, 10:53:41 AM
You have summed it up brilliantly Darren.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 12, 2018, 06:26:00 PM
Excellent result, and fantastic to see proactive thinking that won us the game. Very encouraging.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: stuart445 on November 12, 2018, 06:54:26 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on November 10, 2018, 08:01:57 PM
Bruce held us back massively, even to his biggest supporters it must be obvious now considering what the same players are capable of under Smith. So as it was only 6 weeks ago that we looked like a bag of shit people aren't going to stop mentioning it.

Bruce was the right man at the time he was appointed to steady the ship, last season he managed to get us soo close to getting the target he was set. He failed to personally I'd have sacked him the day after the final but we could not afford it. However when we could afford to keeping him was the correct decision as I'm certain had they sacked him the new owners would have hired Henry because he was a big name, so keeping Bruce meant the owners could get a grip of football and take on board what the experienced football brains had to say which has resulted in us getting Dean Smith.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on November 12, 2018, 07:32:42 PM
Quote from: Ads on November 11, 2018, 07:52:55 AM
Should also add that these 3 clean sheets are very welcome. The goal difference is starting to look better.

Goal aside, I thought we defended very well v QPR too. However, even on the highlights, the 2 chances we conceded v Derby from routine direct clearances were utterly ridiculous. Very similar to the mistake that caused the QPR goal.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: jwarry on November 12, 2018, 07:44:39 PM
Quote from: brontebilly on November 12, 2018, 07:32:42 PM
Quote from: Ads on November 11, 2018, 07:52:55 AM
Should also add that these 3 clean sheets are very welcome. The goal difference is starting to look better.

Goal aside, I thought we defended very well v QPR too. However, even on the highlights, the 2 chances we conceded v Derby from routine direct clearances were utterly ridiculous. Very similar to the mistake that caused the QPR goal.

Yes JT needs to fix that as other teams will have spotted it
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dekko on November 12, 2018, 08:33:04 PM
Quote from: jwarry on November 12, 2018, 07:44:39 PM
Quote from: brontebilly on November 12, 2018, 07:32:42 PM
Quote from: Ads on November 11, 2018, 07:52:55 AM
Should also add that these 3 clean sheets are very welcome. The goal difference is starting to look better.

Goal aside, I thought we defended very well v QPR too. However, even on the highlights, the 2 chances we conceded v Derby from routine direct clearances were utterly ridiculous. Very similar to the mistake that caused the QPR goal.

Yes JT needs to fix that as other teams will have spotted it

One of the nice things about the new regime is that I'm 100% sure they will be working on it in training
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: not3bad on November 12, 2018, 11:23:53 PM
Quote from: john e on November 11, 2018, 10:07:39 AM
Quote from: Ads on November 11, 2018, 07:42:29 AM
Last season we didn't kick on from our best performance and had a mini slump.

Smith can be streaky, but we have a significantly better squad than Brentford and have, for this league, bags and bags of quality.

I'm hopeful that's a marker of what we can expect rather than a one off. Given the way things have been progressing I am hopeful we'll actually get better.

the performances have been pretty good though with Smith whether winning or losing
he might get streaky results but the performances are pretty solid

shows we have a more defined style now and that will improve with more time

I have to say I'm still in the novelty stage of the fact that Villa are just fun to watch again. Long may it continue!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on November 13, 2018, 01:50:03 AM
For me the jury is still out. It’s all good and well doing it at Derby. I’ll only be convinced Dean Smith is the right man for the job when we are pinning Barcelona back in their own half with 70% possession in a few seasons time. It’s all fart until them.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on November 13, 2018, 07:03:03 AM
Quote from: not3bad link=topic=59028.msg3511338#msg3511338
I have to say I'm still in the novelty stage of the fact that Villa are just fun to watch again. Long may it continue!
That word fun now let me think when that happened last? Mainly in the days of BFR and Brian Little. Not much since those times.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Matt Collins on November 13, 2018, 07:23:18 AM
Quote from: OCD on November 11, 2018, 09:07:32 PM
Quote from: Clampy on November 11, 2018, 12:57:59 PM
Quote from: Villafirst on November 11, 2018, 12:15:46 PM
Quote from: Newby on November 11, 2018, 10:14:30 AM
Add a decent left back and I think we will be even stronger. Possibly an upgrade for deeper centre mid too.

That twat Joe Bryan chased the dollar with Fulham. I see they're occupying bottom place in PL Table, shame. They spent huge sums after the play-off final. I can see them in trouble financially when they get relegated.

I don't blame him too much. He was offered Premier League football as well as more money. I think plenty of other players would have made the same decision.

Didn't Fulham screw him over by then going and signing another left back straight after signing him?

I don't see the problem with Bryan. He might never get a chance to play premier league again.

If we were in fulhams position wed want to use our power in the same way

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on November 13, 2018, 09:04:38 AM
I can never understand why any player doesn’t jump at the chance of playing for the Villa

even if we wanted Messi or Mbappé I’m sure they would jump at the opportunity, I can’t see any reason why not
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on November 13, 2018, 09:21:21 AM
They should be so lucky.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on November 13, 2018, 02:28:24 PM
Dean speaks about setting traps for the opposition quite a bit. What does he mean specifically and is it legal?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nev on November 13, 2018, 02:30:13 PM
Quote from: eamonn on November 13, 2018, 02:28:24 PM
Dean speaks about setting traps for the opposition quite a bit. What does he mean specifically and is it legal?

I've noticed that phrase cropping up in commentaries lately as well, in fact since I first heard Dean say it. Along with overloads.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brassneck on November 13, 2018, 03:12:55 PM
I take “setting traps “ as inviting the ball to be played into a certain area/position by leaving a space or a player unmarked.  When the ball is played there, Villa players close the opponent down thus springing the trap
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tomd2103 on November 13, 2018, 04:02:31 PM
Quote from: Brassneck on November 13, 2018, 03:12:55 PM
I take “setting traps “ as inviting the ball to be played into a certain area/position by leaving a space or a player unmarked.  When the ball is played there, Villa players close the opponent down thus springing the trap

Yep.  Hold off until the ball goes into a particular area or player then really press hard in numbers.  There was a discussion about it on Talksport yesterday and they were saying by doing that you then have a number of your players in advanced positions when you win the ball back.

Probably best example is if the opposition play with a defensive midfielder.  If you mark him tightly then they probably aren't going to play into there and go a bit longer.  If you sit off a bit though encouraging them to play in there and then press not only the ball quickly, but all the options as well then you can get the ball back in a good position with players in advanced positions.  Barcelona under Guardiola were brilliant at it.   
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chris Smith on November 13, 2018, 04:22:29 PM
Teams have been doing it to us for years which is where the idea that we played hoofball came from. I don’t think it was by design just that we were either not good enough or hadn’t worked on ways to counter it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: London Villan on November 13, 2018, 05:28:31 PM
Let hutton have the ball...
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AV82EC on November 13, 2018, 08:46:50 PM
Quote from: London Villan on November 13, 2018, 05:28:31 PM
Let hutton have the ball...

Or Nathan Baker <winces>
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on November 13, 2018, 11:12:28 PM
Quote from: London Villan on November 13, 2018, 05:28:31 PM
Let hutton have the ball...

He said trap, not crap.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on November 14, 2018, 11:12:13 AM
Quote from: Brassneck on November 13, 2018, 03:12:55 PM
I take “setting traps “ as inviting the ball to be played into a certain area/position by leaving a space or a player unmarked.  When the ball is played there, Villa players close the opponent down thus springing the trap

My only concern right now with Dean is he's openly explained our tactics to the media, thus the future opposition. Maybe he's got such a large bag of tricks he's not concerned but I'd be a lot happier if he kept his genius to himself and left everybody trying to work out how he did it.

After his post match comments of how he used Tammy to press their midfielder leaving the centre half with the ball and few options, even tactical eunuchs like Steve Bruce would be prepared. I can't think of another manager/coach that goes into such detail. Cut it out, Dean.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on November 14, 2018, 11:12:59 AM
This management games isn't easy.  Jakanovic has been sacked, Wagner is second bottom and playing very defensive stuff.  Both managers who played fantastic football in the Championship and I'd have been delighted if we appointed either of them.  Meanwhile Cardiff's dinosaur is just above them after spending nothing!  Rafa is having to play eye watering defensive stuff to keep afloat.

I love what Dean Smith has done so far and am really excited about what we can achieve, but Fulham is a big lesson - they started with what I thought was a great team, spent a fortune and it's all gone tits up.  Making progressive football work in the PL is not easy. 

If we go up I'm hoping our wider structure and rich owners will help us avoid that trap, but interested to hear what people think of Fulhams struggles and how we avoid these if we reach the promised land?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: andyh on November 14, 2018, 11:15:51 AM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on November 14, 2018, 11:12:13 AM
Quote from: Brassneck on November 13, 2018, 03:12:55 PM
I take “setting traps “ as inviting the ball to be played into a certain area/position by leaving a space or a player unmarked.  When the ball is played there, Villa players close the opponent down thus springing the trap

My only concern right now with Dean is he's openly explained our tactics to the media, thus the future opposition. Maybe he's got such a large bag of tricks he's not concerned but I'd be a lot happier if he kept his genius to himself and left everybody trying to work out how he did it.

After his post match comments of how he used Tammy to press their midfielder leaving the centre half with the ball and few options, even tactical eunuchs like Steve Bruce would be prepared. I can't think of another manager/coach that goes into such detail. Cut it out, Dean.
You know, I thought the same.
Deano has proved he is tactically astute, time to keep schtumm.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SheffieldVillain on November 14, 2018, 11:17:02 AM
Quote from: chrisw1 on November 14, 2018, 11:12:59 AM
This management games isn't easy.  Jakanovic has been sacked, Wagner is second bottom and playing very defensive stuff.  Both managers who played fantastic football in the Championship and I'd have been delighted if we appointed either of them.  Meanwhile Cardiff's dinosaur is just above them after spending nothing!  Rafa is having to play eye watering defensive stuff to keep afloat.

I love what Dean Smith has done so far and am really excited about what we can achieve, but Fulham is a big lesson - they started with what I thought was a great team, spent a fortune and it's all gone tits up.  Making progressive football work in the PL is not easy. 

If we go up I'm hoping our wider structure and rich owners will help us avoid that trap, but interested to hear what people think of Fulhams struggles and how we avoid these if we reach the promised land?

I think we look at the clubs that have gone up, avoided that trap and prospered - especially Bournemouth, also Brighton, Watford - until they went a bit mental and appointed Hughes Southampton. It's possible, and all of those sides did it without spending mental amounts of money.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on November 14, 2018, 12:16:32 PM
Fulham are a lesson in how not to organise a defence. They're utterly atrocious at the back and shuffle players in and out from one week to the next.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: exigo on November 14, 2018, 01:42:25 PM
Fulham are also a lesson in not changing too many players at the same time. Something that put the fear of God into me under Bruce, but much less so under Smith.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brassneck on November 14, 2018, 02:05:41 PM
I would say that Fulham are a lesson in how not to spend money. £30 million on Mitrovic ffs

As for Dean Smith, early days admittedly but he’s looking an even better proposition than I ever expected.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on November 14, 2018, 02:21:10 PM
Quote from: andyh on November 14, 2018, 11:15:51 AM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on November 14, 2018, 11:12:13 AM
Quote from: Brassneck on November 13, 2018, 03:12:55 PM
I take “setting traps “ as inviting the ball to be played into a certain area/position by leaving a space or a player unmarked.  When the ball is played there, Villa players close the opponent down thus springing the trap

My only concern right now with Dean is he's openly explained our tactics to the media, thus the future opposition. Maybe he's got such a large bag of tricks he's not concerned but I'd be a lot happier if he kept his genius to himself and left everybody trying to work out how he did it.

After his post match comments of how he used Tammy to press their midfielder leaving the centre half with the ball and few options, even tactical eunuchs like Steve Bruce would be prepared. I can't think of another manager/coach that goes into such detail. Cut it out, Dean.
You know, I thought the same.
Deano has proved he is tactically astute, time to keep schtumm.
Well Klopp does the same and quite happily talks about his tactics. A few days ago he was totally puzzled about a disallowed goal where Mane was flagged offside. Klopp explained that Mane was deliberately used to run in an offside position to distract defenders  whilst the man with the ball attacked.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chris Smith on November 14, 2018, 03:04:49 PM
Quote from: andyh on November 14, 2018, 11:15:51 AM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on November 14, 2018, 11:12:13 AM
Quote from: Brassneck on November 13, 2018, 03:12:55 PM
I take “setting traps “ as inviting the ball to be played into a certain area/position by leaving a space or a player unmarked.  When the ball is played there, Villa players close the opponent down thus springing the trap

My only concern right now with Dean is he's openly explained our tactics to the media, thus the future opposition. Maybe he's got such a large bag of tricks he's not concerned but I'd be a lot happier if he kept his genius to himself and left everybody trying to work out how he did it.

After his post match comments of how he used Tammy to press their midfielder leaving the centre half with the ball and few options, even tactical eunuchs like Steve Bruce would be prepared. I can't think of another manager/coach that goes into such detail. Cut it out, Dean.
You know, I thought the same.
Deano has proved he is tactically astute, time to keep schtumm.

The opposition will have us watched and be well aware of how we play and will, in most cases, prepare accordingly. I don’t think he’s divulging any trade secrets with his analysis.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: passport1 on November 14, 2018, 04:07:41 PM
I think its all to do with the new Gareth Southgate management template where they are all happy to talk tactics with the world and his wife.

Personally I prefer the Saunders taciturn barely concealed contempt approach.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: XXVilla on November 14, 2018, 05:46:08 PM
Quote from: andyh on November 14, 2018, 11:15:51 AM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on November 14, 2018, 11:12:13 AM
Quote from: Brassneck on November 13, 2018, 03:12:55 PM
I take “setting traps “ as inviting the ball to be played into a certain area/position by leaving a space or a player unmarked.  When the ball is played there, Villa players close the opponent down thus springing the trap

My only concern right now with Dean is he's openly explained our tactics to the media, thus the future opposition. Maybe he's got such a large bag of tricks he's not concerned but I'd be a lot happier if he kept his genius to himself and left everybody trying to work out how he did it.

After his post match comments of how he used Tammy to press their midfielder leaving the centre half with the ball and few options, even tactical eunuchs like Steve Bruce would be prepared. I can't think of another manager/coach that goes into such detail. Cut it out, Dean.
You know, I thought the same.
Deano has proved he is tactically astute, time to keep schtumm.

It’s only clear what he’s done though after the game. He probably has fifty options to pick per game and the opposing coaches can’t anticipate all of them.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on November 14, 2018, 08:45:53 PM
Quote from: XXVilla on November 14, 2018, 05:46:08 PM
Quote from: andyh on November 14, 2018, 11:15:51 AM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on November 14, 2018, 11:12:13 AM
Quote from: Brassneck on November 13, 2018, 03:12:55 PM
I take “setting traps “ as inviting the ball to be played into a certain area/position by leaving a space or a player unmarked.  When the ball is played there, Villa players close the opponent down thus springing the trap

My only concern right now with Dean is he's openly explained our tactics to the media, thus the future opposition. Maybe he's got such a large bag of tricks he's not concerned but I'd be a lot happier if he kept his genius to himself and left everybody trying to work out how he did it.

After his post match comments of how he used Tammy to press their midfielder leaving the centre half with the ball and few options, even tactical eunuchs like Steve Bruce would be prepared. I can't think of another manager/coach that goes into such detail. Cut it out, Dean.
You know, I thought the same.
Deano has proved he is tactically astute, time to keep schtumm.

It’s only clear what he’s done though after the game. He probably has fifty options to pick per game and the opposing coaches can’t anticipate all of them.

I'd had the same fear as Rudy and Andy. Given that I know less than Steve Bruce about tactics, I hoped somebody would post a reason to allay concerns. Thank you!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on November 14, 2018, 09:10:49 PM
Never fear, should our tactical preperations get rumbled we can always fall back to what the players are well trained in, intense boot pulling and sleeve rolling.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VILLA MOLE on November 14, 2018, 09:20:40 PM
Its is one thing to know what an opponent is doing it is another having the wear with all to counter it ,    come on the Villa !!!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on November 14, 2018, 09:48:58 PM
Quote from: LeeB on November 14, 2018, 09:10:49 PM
Never fear, should our tactical preperations get rumbled we can always fall back to what the players are well trained in, intense boot pulling and sleeve rolling.

I'd forgotten about that. With our boots on we can't fail. Terry needs to be the one checking this . I can't recall seeing a Brentford player wearing boots. Certainly since Hogan came here the staunch insistence on boot-wearing seems to have impeded him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OCD on November 14, 2018, 11:09:47 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on November 14, 2018, 11:12:13 AM
Quote from: Brassneck on November 13, 2018, 03:12:55 PM
I take “setting traps “ as inviting the ball to be played into a certain area/position by leaving a space or a player unmarked.  When the ball is played there, Villa players close the opponent down thus springing the trap

My only concern right now with Dean is he's openly explained our tactics to the media, thus the future opposition. Maybe he's got such a large bag of tricks he's not concerned but I'd be a lot happier if he kept his genius to himself and left everybody trying to work out how he did it.

After his post match comments of how he used Tammy to press their midfielder leaving the centre half with the ball and few options, even tactical eunuchs like Steve Bruce would be prepared. I can't think of another manager/coach that goes into such detail. Cut it out, Dean.

Lambert had Gabby do the same thing to Gerrard a few years back. It's not like its never been thought of before.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on November 16, 2018, 07:42:21 PM
Quote from: OCD on November 14, 2018, 11:09:47 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on November 14, 2018, 11:12:13 AM
Quote from: Brassneck on November 13, 2018, 03:12:55 PM
I take “setting traps “ as inviting the ball to be played into a certain area/position by leaving a space or a player unmarked.  When the ball is played there, Villa players close the opponent down thus springing the trap

My only concern right now with Dean is he's openly explained our tactics to the media, thus the future opposition. Maybe he's got such a large bag of tricks he's not concerned but I'd be a lot happier if he kept his genius to himself and left everybody trying to work out how he did it.

After his post match comments of how he used Tammy to press their midfielder leaving the centre half with the ball and few options, even tactical eunuchs like Steve Bruce would be prepared. I can't think of another manager/coach that goes into such detail. Cut it out, Dean.

Lambert had Gabby do the same thing to Gerrard a few years back. It's not like its never been thought of before.

Sure but there's no need to spell it out the the Steve Bruce types of this world.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on November 16, 2018, 08:16:23 PM
I like it.

Teams know what we're going to do? Big deal. It's not like they didn't before he arrived!

It doesn't follow that they'll be able to stop us. And if it's looking like they might, I have every faith in our man making a change on the hoof that they'll not cope with.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on November 16, 2018, 08:44:32 PM
There is plenty of film on how Dean Smith tries to have his teams play the game. The issue is stopping it. He speaks in generalities anyway, nothing specific and he adjusts based on the opponent. That’s the beauty of it. They will know we are coming, just not from where or when.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on November 16, 2018, 08:47:07 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on November 14, 2018, 11:12:59 AM
This management games isn't easy.  Jakanovic has been sacked, Wagner is second bottom and playing very defensive stuff.  Both managers who played fantastic football in the Championship and I'd have been delighted if we appointed either of them.  Meanwhile Cardiff's dinosaur is just above them after spending nothing!  Rafa is having to play eye watering defensive stuff to keep afloat.

I love what Dean Smith has done so far and am really excited about what we can achieve, but Fulham is a big lesson - they started with what I thought was a great team, spent a fortune and it's all gone tits up.  Making progressive football work in the PL is not easy. 

If we go up I'm hoping our wider structure and rich owners will help us avoid that trap, but interested to hear what people think of Fulhams struggles and how we avoid these if we reach the promised land?
Agree with most of this Chris however on Fulham I think they winged it last season and got away with it. Around Christmas they were nowhere and Coach decided to play expansive football to get some momentum and it paid off initially and continued to win them games as other teams developed a fear including us, twice. We got beat 2-0 at their place  and again in the play off final because Bruce didn't attack them. PL teams have no such fear against them and they have been found out.

If we go up with the nucleus of this current tem we will need  to replace at least 3 of the back 5, buy a quality combative midfielder, a winger/wide attacker, either keep Grealish or replace him with better and biggest one....get a proven top flight goal scorer. I am assuming that if Abraham has a very good season Chelsea will keep him next season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on November 16, 2018, 09:25:14 PM
I could see us signing Abraham permanently, especially if we went up. He might be good enough for the Premier League but I don't think he is at the level Chelsea look for
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on November 16, 2018, 10:26:19 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on November 16, 2018, 08:44:32 PM
There is plenty of film on how Dean Smith tries to have his teams play the game. The issue is stopping it. He speaks in generalities anyway, nothing specific and he adjusts based on the opponent. That’s the beauty of it. They will know we are coming, just not from where or when.

Exactly.  They might well know that Grealish is going to run at them at every opportunity.  Stopping him doing it is another matter altogether.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: jwarry on November 22, 2018, 12:49:26 PM
Just listened to his latest interview on AVFC/YouTube and he said with so many players away he took the opportunity to fly up to Scotland to listen to a motivational speech on the All Blacks by James Kerr the author of ‘Legacy’.  Beats a day in the golf course and nice pie in my book
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: exigo on November 22, 2018, 01:06:50 PM
Quote from: olaftab on November 16, 2018, 08:47:07 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on November 14, 2018, 11:12:59 AM
This management games isn't easy.  Jakanovic has been sacked, Wagner is second bottom and playing very defensive stuff.  Both managers who played fantastic football in the Championship and I'd have been delighted if we appointed either of them.  Meanwhile Cardiff's dinosaur is just above them after spending nothing!  Rafa is having to play eye watering defensive stuff to keep afloat.

I love what Dean Smith has done so far and am really excited about what we can achieve, but Fulham is a big lesson - they started with what I thought was a great team, spent a fortune and it's all gone tits up.  Making progressive football work in the PL is not easy. 

If we go up I'm hoping our wider structure and rich owners will help us avoid that trap, but interested to hear what people think of Fulhams struggles and how we avoid these if we reach the promised land?
Agree with most of this Chris however on Fulham I think they winged it last season and got away with it. Around Christmas they were nowhere and Coach decided to play expansive football to get some momentum and it paid off initially and continued to win them games as other teams developed a fear including us, twice. We got beat 2-0 at their place  and again in the play off final because Bruce didn't attack them. PL teams have no such fear against them and they have been found out.

If we go up with the nucleus of this current tem we will need  to replace at least 3 of the back 5, buy a quality combative midfielder, a winger/wide attacker, either keep Grealish or replace him with better and biggest one....get a proven top flight goal scorer. I am assuming that if Abraham has a very good season Chelsea will keep him next season.

Fulham's big problem has been too many changes to a settled team. And that's upset the balance and understanding between players. Smith would never be that naive.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TheMalandro on November 22, 2018, 01:08:22 PM
Quote from: jwarry on November 22, 2018, 12:49:26 PM
Just listened to his latest interview on AVFC/YouTube and he said with so many players away he took the opportunity to fly up to Scotland to listen to a motivational speech on the All Blacks by James Kerr the author of ‘Legacy’.  Beats a day in the golf course and nice pie in my book

He's a very impressive individual.

All the money we've splashed on mercenaries, be it board or players - what did Smith cost, 300K?
I'm a very happy Villa fan.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on November 22, 2018, 01:10:26 PM
Quote from: jwarry on November 22, 2018, 12:49:26 PM
Just listened to his latest interview on AVFC/YouTube and he said with so many players away he took the opportunity to fly up to Scotland to listen to a motivational speech on the All Blacks by James Kerr the author of ‘Legacy’.  Beats a day in the golf course and nice pie in my book

Bruce would have spent it at home, with Deliveroo on speed dial.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: glinch on November 22, 2018, 05:23:46 PM
Quote from: Risso on November 16, 2018, 10:26:19 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on November 16, 2018, 08:44:32 PM
There is plenty of film on how Dean Smith tries to have his teams play the game. The issue is stopping it. He speaks in generalities anyway, nothing specific and he adjusts based on the opponent. That’s the beauty of it. They will know we are coming, just not from where or when.

Exactly.  They might well know that Grealish is going to run at them at every opportunity.  Stopping him doing it is another matter altogether.

Theres also the chance he's spoofing? Hyped up Grealish's runs one week - McGinn is predominantly doing them the next.

Just listened to his latest interview, real impressive - I know Bruce had a tough year, but he didnt strike me that he was trying to develop as a coach over the last 12 months (or 10 years).

We've definitely got the best man for the job.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on November 22, 2018, 05:33:12 PM
Now we have a real manager, it beggars belief why so many defended Bruce for so long.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chipsticks on November 22, 2018, 05:43:05 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on November 22, 2018, 05:33:12 PM
Now we have a real manager, it beggars belief why so many defended Bruce for so long.

Hindsight's a wonderful thing. Bruce did a lot for our club in stabilising a sinking ship and getting our defence organised enough to stop us falling further down the leagues, which we should always be grateful for.

Given the horrendous appointments we've endured over the last 5+ years, I totally get people feeling uneasy with switching things up (as I did), but it's such a relief to have seen it pay off so well thus far.

Don't forget that we were on the brink of signing Henry!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: clash city rocker on November 22, 2018, 05:44:55 PM
Quote from: Chipsticks on November 22, 2018, 05:43:05 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on November 22, 2018, 05:33:12 PM
Now we have a real manager, it beggars belief why so many defended Bruce for so long.

Hindsight's a wonderful thing. Bruce did a lot for our club in stabilising a sinking ship and getting our defence organised enough to stop us falling further down the leagues, which we should always be grateful for.

Given the horrendous appointments we've endured over the last 5+ years, I totally get people feeling uneasy with switching things up (as I did), but it's such a relief to have seen it pay off so well thus far.

Don't forget that we were on the brink of signing Henry!

So say the papers.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on November 22, 2018, 05:47:54 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on November 22, 2018, 05:33:12 PM
Now we have a real manager, it beggars belief why so many defended Bruce for so long.

He's gone. Why not look forward instead of griping?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: glinch on November 22, 2018, 06:14:29 PM
Quote from: Clampy on November 22, 2018, 05:47:54 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on November 22, 2018, 05:33:12 PM
Now we have a real manager, it beggars belief why so many defended Bruce for so long.

He's gone. Why not look forward instead of griping?

His track record of promotions, possibly, earned him the right of having a crack a couple of times. Was always going to be short term Bruce, at best, and it didn't work out - unfortunately.

Buy yeah, you're right Clampy. Onwards and upwards!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on November 22, 2018, 06:58:58 PM
Searching for perfection.  I like it.  The beauty of this squad is, with this coaching set up, we have no idea how good we are yet. Very exciting.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: jwarry on November 22, 2018, 09:17:18 PM
Watching Harry Redknapp reminiscing on IACGMOOH (I know it was just on the tele) and talking about watching the racing with SAF just before the game starts, you might as well have been listening to SB
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on November 23, 2018, 07:30:20 AM
Just listened to his interview.

Interesting that the used Mondeo Salesman at B9 was trying to do his Fergie mind games impression about pressure on us being top 2 and Smith contrasting that by candidly saying how it's the aim.

He fills you with confidence listening to him speak. Rest defence is a new one for me.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on November 23, 2018, 12:44:55 PM
Quote from: Clampy on November 22, 2018, 05:47:54 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on November 22, 2018, 05:33:12 PM
Now we have a real manager, it beggars belief why so many defended Bruce for so long.

He's gone. Why not look forward instead of griping?

i'm sure you would like us to forget about Bruce
your the one who backed him to the hilt for the last two years with a 10 minute window after the play off final before reverting to type and backing him yet again

we are now seeing the damage he has done by him while you were saying he was worth sticking with month after month day after day defending him to the death

its obvious now that the man was useless and we've wasted two years with him,
we will move on time will fade the memory of just how bad he was,
but for some it will take a bit more time than you his biggest fan


Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on November 23, 2018, 01:15:09 PM
Quote from: john e on November 23, 2018, 12:44:55 PM
Quote from: Clampy on November 22, 2018, 05:47:54 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on November 22, 2018, 05:33:12 PM
Now we have a real manager, it beggars belief why so many defended Bruce for so long.

He's gone. Why not look forward instead of griping?

i'm sure you would like us to forget about Bruce
your the one who backed him to the hilt for the last two years with a 10 minute window after the play off final before reverting to type and backing him yet again

we are now seeing the damage he has done by him while you were saying he was worth sticking with month after month day after day defending him to the death

its obvious now that the man was useless and we've wasted two years with him,
we will move on time will fade the memory of just how bad he was,
but for some it will take a bit more time than you his biggest fan




You OK hun?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on November 23, 2018, 01:59:16 PM
Quote from: Clampy on November 23, 2018, 01:15:09 PM
Quote from: john e on November 23, 2018, 12:44:55 PM
Quote from: Clampy on November 22, 2018, 05:47:54 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on November 22, 2018, 05:33:12 PM
Now we have a real manager, it beggars belief why so many defended Bruce for so long.

He's gone. Why not look forward instead of griping?

i'm sure you would like us to forget about Bruce
your the one who backed him to the hilt for the last two years with a 10 minute window after the play off final before reverting to type and backing him yet again

we are now seeing the damage he has done by him while you were saying he was worth sticking with month after month day after day defending him to the death

its obvious now that the man was useless and we've wasted two years with him,
we will move on time will fade the memory of just how bad he was,
but for some it will take a bit more time than you his biggest fan




You OK hun?

I am now pet
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Pvb1968 on November 23, 2018, 03:09:27 PM
Quote from: john e on November 23, 2018, 12:44:55 PM
Quote from: Clampy on November 22, 2018, 05:47:54 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on November 22, 2018, 05:33:12 PM
Now we have a real manager, it beggars belief why so many defended Bruce for so long.

He's gone. Why not look forward instead of griping?

i'm sure you would like us to forget about Bruce
your the one who backed him to the hilt for the last two years with a 10 minute window after the play off final before reverting to type and backing him yet again

we are now seeing the damage he has done by him while you were saying he was worth sticking with month after month day after day defending him to the death

its obvious now that the man was useless and we've wasted two years with him,
we will move on time will fade the memory of just how bad he was,
but for some it will take a bit more time than you his biggest fan

Must admit I feel the same about Bruce and that he was a chancer, Dean Smith is in a different league and it's so refreshing.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on November 23, 2018, 03:39:26 PM
He wasn't a chancer, it's just that his style of management has had its day.  You are seeing the same thing with MO'N, McCarthy et al.  Even Woy to an extent.  Up and at them with a bit of magic from a star player every now and then used to work.  Now it doesn't so much. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on November 23, 2018, 03:57:24 PM
Quote from: john e on November 23, 2018, 12:44:55 PM
Quote from: Clampy on November 22, 2018, 05:47:54 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on November 22, 2018, 05:33:12 PM
Now we have a real manager, it beggars belief why so many defended Bruce for so long.

He's gone. Why not look forward instead of griping?

i'm sure you would like us to forget about Bruce
your the one who backed him to the hilt for the last two years with a 10 minute window after the play off final before reverting to type and backing him yet again

we are now seeing the damage he has done by him while you were saying he was worth sticking with month after month day after day defending him to the death

its obvious now that the man was useless and we've wasted two years with him,
we will move on time will fade the memory of just how bad he was,
but for some it will take a bit more time than you his biggest fan
Brilliant.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on November 23, 2018, 05:32:28 PM
I think comments about Bruce will carry on for the next few months because a lot of people will see good performances under Smith, with the same squad, as evidence that they were right to want Bruce out 12-18 months ago and replaced with a manager that does tactics.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: old man villa fan on November 23, 2018, 05:44:54 PM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on November 23, 2018, 03:39:26 PM
He wasn't a chancer, it's just that his style of management has had its day.  You are seeing the same thing with MO'N, McCarthy et al.  Even Woy to an extent.  Up and at them with a bit of magic from a star player every now and then used to work.  Now it doesn't so much.

Quite right. One is a manager living off his reputation as a player and limited success as a manager and the other is trying to build a reputation as a manager by wanting to learn.  Style of management has a shelf life unless you move with the times. Football has moved on tremendously from Bruce's early days in management but I'm afraid he hasn't.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on November 23, 2018, 06:15:56 PM
The don’t look back thing, while I understand the sentiment, is a bit daft. A lot (most?) of what is on this site goes back beyond current players and management. Plus, it’s pretty natural to talk about the last manager when he’s helped shape this season so far and when he happens to be so starkly different in approach to the current one.

In fact the best way of analysing Smith’s qualities, right now, is to look at what he’s doing with the same squad Bruce couldn’t get a song out of.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on November 23, 2018, 07:10:05 PM
It's early days with Smith but so far it does seem to be a very good fit and the Derby second half especially was extremely encouraging. In regards to Bruce, what's gone is gone, for me anyway. Onwards and upwards.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on November 23, 2018, 07:35:26 PM
Every fan of every club on the planet talks about old games, past managers, past players and so on. It's why we have a Memories section.

I can't think of a single manager we've had that people have stopped mentioning less than 2 months after they left.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on November 23, 2018, 07:59:11 PM
Not every fan has a poultry farm of egg on thier face though.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on November 23, 2018, 08:11:21 PM
I disagreed a lot with Clampy over Bruce but there's no need for comments like that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on November 23, 2018, 08:41:58 PM
I think the majority of people on here were of the opinion that he should have gone after the play of final, I was was one of them. I understood why he was kept on during the fiasco off the pitch during the summer and I got why the new owners kept him on whilst they got settled in and got their CEO in place. I don't have any regrets about getting behind him up until the final and I'm now happy to look forward to seeing what Smithy do. That seems to bother some people but there's not a lot I can do about that and I don't really care if I'm honest.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on November 23, 2018, 08:51:18 PM
I'll also say that if you didn't care you wouldn't keep going on about him  :-* :-*
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on November 23, 2018, 08:57:02 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on November 23, 2018, 08:51:18 PM
I'll also say that if you didn't care you wouldn't keep going on about him  :-* :-*

Haha, I meant more about what others think rather than Bruce to be honest.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Londonvilla on November 23, 2018, 10:48:09 PM
This is why Steve had to move on.... football has changed and he had not

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/man-utd-axel-tuanzebe-news-15459036

"Dean Smith was named as the former United defender's replacement last month, with John Terry his assistant, and Tuanzebe says the former Brentford manager is aiding his progression.

"It's been good, he's had a positive impact on everyone," Tuanzebe told MUTV. "We love his philosophies, we love his way of football."

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villan from luton on November 23, 2018, 11:52:21 PM
londonvilla, you only have to listen to an interview with Dean Smith and realise we had to move on. None of the bollocks that they are great and we will give it a go or we will be there or thereabouts. Loved his comment today that he is not obsessed with beating the noses, he is obsessed about winning every game. I recall someone having a little dig about him being at airport the monday before last and suggesting he was off for a holiday like last manager. He was off to a conference in Edinburgh for a motivational speaker re all blacks. He is always looking to improve and I have been a villa fan for many years but so excited by his comments
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: XXVilla on November 24, 2018, 04:01:31 AM
I can’t believe anyone would lament the loss of Steve Bruce. And as this is s Dean Smith thread I’m glad he’s his replacement.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on November 24, 2018, 08:57:30 AM
My opinion is that the history of our football club is a proud one, not a carpet to have every mistake swept under.  The factual, statistical history of the club is that the past decade has been a managerial catastrophe culminating by the two years of one of the worst managers of the lot.  His departure and the scattering of his apologists made me very happy.

To comply with the intent of this thread, the appointment of Dean Smith has given me the joy of watching Villa again.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: clash city rocker on November 24, 2018, 09:03:14 AM
Quote from: brian green on November 24, 2018, 08:57:30 AM
My opinion is that the history of our football club is a proud one, not a carpet to have every mistake swept under.  The factual, statistical history of the club is that the past decade has been a managerial catastrophe culminating by the two years of one of the worst managers of the lot.  His departure and the scattering of his apologists made me very happy.

To comply with the intent of this thread, the appointment of Dean Smith has given me the joy of watching Villa again.

In the last couple of months watching Villa has gone from being a chore to something I once again look forward to with a hint of excitement about what the future holds for us.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on November 24, 2018, 09:11:23 AM
Doesn't he hold the highest win percentage of any Villa manager? If we're talking statistical history.

Tempered by being in this league of course and his run this season might well have changed that.

Anyway, Chicago Villa and his snidey remark aside we would be talking about old sleeves and boots. Nobody is sad he's gone and there's plenty to be cautiously excited about with Deano.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on November 24, 2018, 09:25:44 AM
Quote from: Ads on November 24, 2018, 09:11:23 AM
Doesn't he hold the highest win percentage of any Villa manager? If we're talking statistical history.

Tempered by being in this league of course and his run this season might well have changed that.

Anyway, Chicago Villa and his snidey remark aside we would be talking about old sleeves and boots. Nobody is sad he's gone and there's plenty to be cautiously excited about with Deano.

I found the 'egg on face' remark very funny actually bearing in mind the person who posted it once thought he was being threatened by a Basil Fawlty quote.

Yep, It's a shame it didn't work out with Bruce but I'm not sad he's gone. Like you say, there is genuine cause for optimism now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Pvb1968 on November 24, 2018, 12:38:56 PM
Bruce was a chancer and paid a fortune for the privelage. Never want someone of his ilk to get near villa Park again.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on November 24, 2018, 03:40:31 PM
My mind is made up on Bruce. I don't think he was a chancer I think his past record earned him the extra time he was granted in the hope of us achieving our goal -promotion. However i do think he'd realised he wasn't going to achieve this in the early stages of this season and he slowly unravelled in front of our eyes. His ridiculous attack on the fans after the Rotherham game was the final straw for me. His team selections were as half- baked as his tactics. He got his massive pay off and swanned off into the sunset. For people like myself who grew increasingly pissed off with Bruce it's over now. We move on and I really think we've found a gem in Dean Smith. I love listening to him. Not a platitude in sight just thoughtful and intelligent pearls of wisdom. The era of the dinosaur is over. We're going into unchartered waters with the new owners and we have Deano at the helm. This is the dawn of the enlightenment at B6 and it's the most excited I've felt about the villa in a decade. Bring it on.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rigadon on November 24, 2018, 04:30:08 PM
Well said The Edge.  All failed managers automatically become 'chancers' for some.  Ultimately Bruce never worked out and deserved the sack in the end.  Smith seems to be a breath of fresh air.  Happy times then!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on November 24, 2018, 06:13:05 PM
I agree he wasn't a chancer (even though i probably called him one at times). The truth is that he was lazy and arrogant, thinkimg his experience meant he could coast along doing the same thing that had given him a semblance of success elsewhere and that anyone who disagreed was ignorant of how the game is. If he'd had a better attitude he'd have realised that the game was changing.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on November 24, 2018, 06:23:35 PM
His record shows he wasn't a chancer, but the game has moved on and he didn't know how to move with it so all his limitations ended up on display.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on November 24, 2018, 07:04:31 PM
SB is just a little bit too lazy for these type of jobs. Barely does stuff on the training ground etc. Can work well at underdog clubs but not where there's more expectation/pressure.

It's similar to MON. Check out the Matt Doherty comments about the differences in approach at ROI and Wolves.

So refreshing we actually have a hands on manager at the training ground for the first time in a long while. That's how you improve players, not making another 5-6 signings as SB inevitably would've done in January if he'd been given longer.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rigadon on November 24, 2018, 07:26:04 PM
Not sure if laziness is the right term exactly, but I get what you mean.  Bruce is like the other British managers of his generation, in that during their own playing careers they had managers (Clough, Fergie etc) who were successful in the 'general manager', rather than hands on coach, role.  It's not 'lazy', more just hopelessly outdated.  It's a bit like a centre half who is fine, fine, then his legs go and it happens really quick and everyone winces when the young centre forward makes him look geriatric.

Anyway, enough about the past...     
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on November 24, 2018, 07:43:16 PM
Quote from: Rigadon on November 24, 2018, 07:26:04 PM
Not sure if laziness is the right term exactly, but I get what you mean.  Bruce is like the other British managers of his generation, in that during their own playing careers they had managers (Clough, Fergie etc) who were successful in the 'general manager', rather than hands on coach, role.  It's not 'lazy', more just hopelessly outdated.  It's a bit like a centre half who is fine, fine, then his legs go and it happens really quick and everyone winces when the young centre forward makes him look geriatric.

Anyway, enough about the past...     

Think it's worth remembering he did start his managerial career in the late 90s. Game has completely changed from that period. As I've said his style works better at likes of SHA and Hull where being solid, scrapping out results and having good team spirit is the order of the day, not excellence in the final third.

Considering some of the attacking players we've had since we've been down here, you can see the difference in training pitch coaching since Smith came in. Jack looking more likely his old self, midfielders being given more licence to attack the box and us finally cutting through teams. We did it a few times last season but many of our results were still generally back to the wall and pinching games (Forest and Sheffield United spring to mind). We'll do some of that under Smith but it becomes a big issue when it's your default setting.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Pvb1968 on November 24, 2018, 08:15:27 PM
The game is still packed with the mates brigade who get job after job following failure.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on November 25, 2018, 02:53:28 PM
What I love about him is even after a 4-2 win in a derby he's been critical in his interviews. None of this "that will shut a few up" or "we were excellent" bullshit we've been fed for years.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave shelley on November 25, 2018, 03:46:06 PM
Who let that air freshener into the place?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on November 25, 2018, 04:24:22 PM
I'm not sad Bruce went but the victory at home earlier this year to SH was decidedly less heart in mouth than this one - but I suppose we did have a better defence.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dekko on November 25, 2018, 04:40:04 PM
Quote from: mr underhill on November 25, 2018, 04:24:22 PM
I'm not sad Bruce went but the victory at home earlier this year to SH was decidedly less heart in mouth than this one - but I suppose we did have a better defence.

They've actually got a decent manager now too
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: garyshawsknee on November 25, 2018, 04:52:06 PM
When you hear him speak, it really fills you with confidence. All the mistakes in the games that we spot, he sees them too and will correct them, he will definitely improve players in the squad. I honestly cant remember the last time we had that here.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: FatSam on November 25, 2018, 04:58:32 PM
Quote from: garyshawsknee on November 25, 2018, 04:52:06 PM
When you hear him speak, it really fills you with confidence. All the mistakes in the games that we spot, he sees them too and will correct them, he will definitely improve players in the squad. I honestly cant remember the last time we had that here.
I think the last time we had it was Brian Little. I think everyone since has seen players regress with us, even during periods of relative success - think about how poor MON's improvement rate was, buying a new defence every season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: garyshawsknee on November 25, 2018, 05:00:14 PM
You're right Sam, maybe Houllier if he had stayed on, either way its been far too long.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Pvb1968 on November 25, 2018, 05:12:09 PM
We're on our way, here we come..
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on November 25, 2018, 05:12:36 PM
Quote from: garyshawsknee on November 25, 2018, 04:52:06 PM
When you hear him speak, it really fills you with confidence. All the mistakes in the games that we spot, he sees them too and will correct them, he will definitely improve players in the squad. I honestly cant remember the last time we had that here.

The bold bit is important. At various times Lambert, Sherwood and Bruce all pointed out things we'd done wrong, and then we did the same things for weeks afterwards. Under Smith you can see that we've actually spent some time on the training ground addressing the things he's spoken about.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TopDeck113 on November 25, 2018, 05:13:58 PM
I don't know whether it will reach the same heights, but after a relatively short while. I'm more and more convinced Dean is going to take us on the most exhilarating ride since the period 87-96, or even the Saunders era.  The 2020s could even be the Villa's decade...
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on November 25, 2018, 05:19:32 PM
Quote from: TopDeck113 on November 25, 2018, 05:13:58 PM
I don't know whether it will reach the same heights, but after a relatively short while. I'm more and more convinced Dean is going to take us on the most exhilarating ride since the period 87-96, or even the Saunders era.  The 2020s could even be the Villa's decade...

Blimey no pressure!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AlexAlexCropley on November 25, 2018, 05:24:28 PM
Quote from: TopDeck113 on November 25, 2018, 05:13:58 PM
I don't know whether it will reach the same heights, but after a relatively short while. I'm more and more convinced Dean is going to take us on the most exhilarating ride since the period 87-96, or even the Saunders era.  The 2020s could even be the Villa's decade...
What I think. Cometh the man......
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: robleflaneur on November 25, 2018, 06:35:26 PM
 Not only is the team playing with more flair and attacking intent but there was an improvement in 2 players deemed surplus to requirements by SB,namely  Albert and Angie.The latter had a very brief cameo but seemed more energetic and purposeful than on previous outings.
When we got our game together today we played some powerful ,fast attacking football with more players willing to get into the box,so remniscent of the Saunders era.An improvent in both approach and individuals' performances bodes well for the future.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on November 25, 2018, 06:58:32 PM
I saw them on Football Focus yesterday and the one thing I saw the coaches and players doing was laughing and smiling including Deano.  He just seems such a relaxed bloke who simply knows how to coach.  During the international break instead of fucking off to the algarve he travelled to Scotland to listen to a talk on motivation from an ex All Blacks coach. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on November 25, 2018, 07:01:30 PM
76 on the clock, and our right back surges through the opposition like, well, an '86 vintage Maradona.

Anybody else think that after being here less than 7 weeks, him and his team have got us looking far fitter than we have done in a very long time?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on November 25, 2018, 07:03:35 PM
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on November 25, 2018, 07:01:30 PM
76 on the clock, and our right back surges through the opposition like, well, an '86 vintage Maradona.

Anybody else think that after being here less than 7 weeks, him and his team have got us looking far fitter than we have done in a very long time?

Never mind fitness. Bruce would've subbed Hutton for that!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on November 25, 2018, 07:04:18 PM
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on November 25, 2018, 07:01:30 PM
76 on the clock, and our right back surges through the opposition like, well, an '86 vintage Maradona.

Anybody else think that after being here less than 7 weeks, him and his team have got us looking far fitter than we have done in a very long time?

Far more enthusiastic too. It's amazing what a bit of confidence brings. You jump higher, you run faster, you want it more and you last longer in games.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on November 25, 2018, 07:04:58 PM
Quote from: Ad@m on November 25, 2018, 07:03:35 PM
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on November 25, 2018, 07:01:30 PM
76 on the clock, and our right back surges through the opposition like, well, an '86 vintage Maradona.

Anybody else think that after being here less than 7 weeks, him and his team have got us looking far fitter than we have done in a very long time?

Never mind fitness. Bruce would've subbed Hutton for that!

We'd have shut up shot under Bruce along the way to conceding a third
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on November 25, 2018, 07:07:32 PM
There'll be fuck ups along the way, we'll get caught 'fannying around' with the ball at the back sometimes but fuck it, it's far better than hoofing it in the general direction of Elmo and hoping. Smith is fast becoming my favourite manager since Sir Brian.

*I'm including SGT2 in the SGT1 period, my post, my rules!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on November 25, 2018, 07:50:12 PM
He's one of our own.  We look much better and have the passion and the creativity.  Bring in a couple of players in the window and I'm more than happy with the current staff.  It was great to see both Dean Smith AND Christian Purslow standing by the tunnel today after the game today.  The togetherness is back and all of the players seem to get on, have a game plan and an individual plan.  Long may it continue and I will say it again, we have no idea how good we might be yet as we don't seem to have found our level.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on November 25, 2018, 09:10:26 PM
I take it nobody still thinks that the Villa job is too big for Smith.  Ignoring his allegiance as a fan, he's taken absolutely everything in his stride. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on November 25, 2018, 09:26:43 PM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on November 25, 2018, 06:58:32 PM
I saw them on Football Focus yesterday and the one thing I saw the coaches and players doing was laughing and smiling including Deano.  He just seems such a relaxed bloke who simply knows how to coach.  During the international break instead of fucking off to the algarve he travelled to Scotland to listen to a talk on motivation from an ex All Blacks coach. 

Seems like Gareth Southgate who despite all the success this year with England is still going on coaching seminars to improve himself.

Certainly with Steve Bruce you get the feeling he had the air of I've been in this game for 30 years so why should I strive to improve myself. Probably a benefit of appointing a young manager is they have different mindset.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: clash city rocker on November 25, 2018, 09:33:49 PM
Smith has worked hard at Walsall and Brentford. He now has his dream job and has landed one of the biggest jobs in football. He seems intent of giving it no less than 100%. He wants to better himself and in the process better us. He's a total breath of fresh air who will work as hard as he can to get to the top of the tree. When he gets there we will be sat alongside him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mike on November 25, 2018, 09:46:11 PM
Quote from: clash city rocker on November 25, 2018, 09:33:49 PM
Smith has worked hard at Walsall and Brentford. He now has his dream job and has landed one of the biggest jobs in football. He seems intent of giving it no less than 100%. He wants to better himself and in the process better us. He's a total breath of fresh air who will work as hard as he can to get to the top of the tree. When he gets there we will be sat alongside him.

SB was the footballing version of Boris Johnson and Rees Mogg. They feel their 'pedigree' gives them a sense of entitlement despite the fact that they are clearly shit at what they do and talk bollocks.

I'd like to puncture this optimism, but I can't
Quote from: SoccerHQ on November 25, 2018, 09:26:43 PM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on November 25, 2018, 06:58:32 PM
I saw them on Football Focus yesterday and the one thing I saw the coaches and players doing was laughing and smiling including Deano.  He just seems such a relaxed bloke who simply knows how to coach.  During the international break instead of fucking off to the algarve he travelled to Scotland to listen to a talk on motivation from an ex All Blacks coach. 

Seems like Gareth Southgate who despite all the success this year with England is still going on coaching seminars to improve himself.

Certainly with Steve Bruce you get the feeling he had the air of I've been in this game for 30 years so why should I strive to improve myself. Probably a benefit of appointing a young manager is they have different mindset.
Quote from: SoccerHQ on November 25, 2018, 09:26:43 PM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on November 25, 2018, 06:58:32 PM
I saw them on Football Focus yesterday and the one thing I saw the coaches and players doing was laughing and smiling including Deano.  He just seems such a relaxed bloke who simply knows how to coach.  During the international break instead of fucking off to the algarve he travelled to Scotland to listen to a talk on motivation from an ex All Blacks coach. 

Seems like Gareth Southgate who despite all the success this year with England is still going on coaching seminars to improve himself.

Certainly with Steve Bruce you get the feeling he had the air of I've been in this game for 30 years so why should I strive to improve myself. Probably a benefit of appointing a young manager is they have different mindset.
Quote from: SoccerHQ on November 25, 2018, 09:26:43 PM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on November 25, 2018, 06:58:32 PM
I saw them on Football Focus yesterday and the one thing I saw the coaches and players doing was laughing and smiling including Deano.  He just seems such a relaxed bloke who simply knows how to coach.  During the international break instead of fucking off to the algarve he travelled to Scotland to listen to a talk on motivation from an ex All Blacks coach. 

Seems like Gareth Southgate who despite all the success this year with England is still going on coaching seminars to improve himself.

Certainly with Steve Bruce you get the feeling he had the air of I've been in this game for 30 years so why should I strive to improve myself. Probably a benefit of appointing a young manager is they have different mindset.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: exigo on November 25, 2018, 10:14:21 PM
So you're in three minds about Southgate?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chinchilla Bathhouse on November 25, 2018, 10:17:57 PM
Quote from: Risso on November 25, 2018, 09:10:26 PM
I take it nobody still thinks that the Villa job is too big for Smith.  Ignoring his allegiance as a fan, he's taken absolutely everything in his stride.

Not just that, he's completely seized the opportunity. My worry was that he'd be cowed by the pressure and size of the job, like many who came before him. But there's no signs of fear or caution at all, just a man totally embracing the challenge. His confidence and work ethic is being reflected on the pitch. Who knows where this will end up but it's been a very encouraging start.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on November 25, 2018, 10:34:38 PM
Quote from: Chinchilla Bathhouse on November 25, 2018, 10:17:57 PM
Quote from: Risso on November 25, 2018, 09:10:26 PM
I take it nobody still thinks that the Villa job is too big for Smith.  Ignoring his allegiance as a fan, he's taken absolutely everything in his stride.

Not just that, he's completely seized the opportunity. My worry was that he'd be cowed by the pressure and size of the job, like many who came before him. But there's no signs of fear or caution at all, just a man totally embracing the challenge. His confidence and work ethic is being reflected on the pitch. Who knows where this will end up but it's been a very encouraging start.

I love it when interviewers play up the 'Villa fan' angle and he always shuts them down straight away by saying something along the lines of 'I've worked my way up. I deserve this. It doesn't matter which team I went to watch as a youngster.' And yet, we all know.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on November 25, 2018, 11:45:05 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on November 25, 2018, 10:34:38 PM
Quote from: Chinchilla Bathhouse on November 25, 2018, 10:17:57 PM
Quote from: Risso on November 25, 2018, 09:10:26 PM
I take it nobody still thinks that the Villa job is too big for Smith.  Ignoring his allegiance as a fan, he's taken absolutely everything in his stride.

Not just that, he's completely seized the opportunity. My worry was that he'd be cowed by the pressure and size of the job, like many who came before him. But there's no signs of fear or caution at all, just a man totally embracing the challenge. His confidence and work ethic is being reflected on the pitch. Who knows where this will end up but it's been a very encouraging start.

I love it when interviewers play up the 'Villa fan' angle and he always shuts them down straight away by saying something along the lines of 'I've worked my way up. I deserve this. It doesn't matter which team I went to watch as a youngster.' And yet, we all know.

Exactly. What I love about him is he wants to both improve the team and at the same time his own skills. The man is progressive, something I and many others (waves at Monty) have been calling out since JG left.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Iamkmkm on November 26, 2018, 12:10:10 AM
Quote from: clash city rocker on November 25, 2018, 09:33:49 PM
Smith has worked hard at Walsall and Brentford. He now has his dream job and has landed one of the biggest jobs in football. He seems intent of giving it no less than 100%. He wants to better himself and in the process better us. He's a total breath of fresh air who will work as hard as he can to get to the top of the tree. When he gets there we will be sat alongside him.

Well said Sir
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: West Derby Villan on November 26, 2018, 01:22:37 AM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on November 25, 2018, 11:45:05 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on November 25, 2018, 10:34:38 PM
Quote from: Chinchilla Bathhouse on November 25, 2018, 10:17:57 PM
Quote from: Risso on November 25, 2018, 09:10:26 PM
I take it nobody still thinks that the Villa job is too big for Smith.  Ignoring his allegiance as a fan, he's taken absolutely everything in his stride.

Not just that, he's completely seized the opportunity. My worry was that he'd be cowed by the pressure and size of the job, like many who came before him. But there's no signs of fear or caution at all, just a man totally embracing the challenge. His confidence and work ethic is being reflected on the pitch. Who knows where this will end up but it's been a very encouraging start.

I love it when interviewers play up the 'Villa fan' angle and he always shuts them down straight away by saying something along the lines of 'I've worked my way up. I deserve this. It doesn't matter which team I went to watch as a youngster.' And yet, we all know.

Exactly. What I love about him is he wants to both improve the team and at the same time his own skills. The man is progressive, something I and many others (waves at Monty) have been calling out since JG left.

What I call "A Proper Manager"
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on November 26, 2018, 03:03:11 AM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on November 25, 2018, 11:45:05 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on November 25, 2018, 10:34:38 PM
Quote from: Chinchilla Bathhouse on November 25, 2018, 10:17:57 PM
Quote from: Risso on November 25, 2018, 09:10:26 PM
I take it nobody still thinks that the Villa job is too big for Smith.  Ignoring his allegiance as a fan, he's taken absolutely everything in his stride.

Not just that, he's completely seized the opportunity. My worry was that he'd be cowed by the pressure and size of the job, like many who came before him. But there's no signs of fear or caution at all, just a man totally embracing the challenge. His confidence and work ethic is being reflected on the pitch. Who knows where this will end up but it's been a very encouraging start.

I love it when interviewers play up the 'Villa fan' angle and he always shuts them down straight away by saying something along the lines of 'I've worked my way up. I deserve this. It doesn't matter which team I went to watch as a youngster.' And yet, we all know.

Exactly. What I love about him is he wants to both improve the team and at the same time his own skills. The man is progressive, something I and many others (waves at Monty) have been calling out since JG left.

Hasn’t pretty much everyone wanted a progressive manager? Who has argued against a progressive manager? I think what has happened is most people got behind whoever was appointed because what choice did we have and by that point ultimately there were no alternatives once the appointments were made.

It’s wonderful that Dean Smith embraces modern concepts and wants to not only improve the team but himself. It’s really the least we should expect a manager to do as part of his professional development. That so many don’t, especially British managers shows exactly why we have been left behind as a nation.

I’ve been impressed him so far (as we all have) but it won’t always be smooth sailing. It will be great to see how this season pans out and then if he is able to compete at the top level. Given the right support he can do well. Look at someone like Eddie Howe at a much smaller club. Dean Smith won’t take this for granted like Bruce did. Bruce felt he had arrived. Dean Smith wants to keep improving and that is very encouraging for all of us.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Duncan Shaw on November 26, 2018, 08:01:01 AM
Quote from: Chinchilla Bathhouse on November 25, 2018, 10:17:57 PM
Who knows where this will end up but it's been a very encouraging start.

It sure has and I don't want to get carried away, but it just seems the "right fit" maybe in a way we haven't seen since Sir Brian was in charge.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on November 26, 2018, 09:03:32 AM
I'm crossing everything that that is the case. Dean needs to shake things up for Wednesday though - Grabban will rip us a new one if we play like that again defensively.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on November 26, 2018, 09:15:50 AM
Good stuff so far, keep it up Smithy.

I do think some people are getting a bit over excited though - there's a long, long way to go yet.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Diablo on November 26, 2018, 09:26:09 AM
Quote from: mr underhill on November 26, 2018, 09:03:32 AM
I'm crossing everything that that is the case. Dean needs to shake things up for Wednesday though - Grabban will rip us a new one if we play like that again defensively.
Yeah I agree Forest are one of the form teams in the League (only behind Norwich) and unbeaten in 5.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: luke95 on November 26, 2018, 10:22:09 AM
One thing I loved about Smith yesterday was he never left the pitch at full time till every single player was congratulated even waited for Grealish & Cafu to finish their on pitch interviews.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on November 26, 2018, 10:38:54 AM
In a nutshell for me it is clear that Dean wants the job not the money.   All our managers since and including MON have been mercenaries.  They have been bought off the shelf marked "Experienced, Safe Pair of Hands" or in Sherwood's case "Inexperienced but well regarded by the London Media close friend of the Villa CEO.".  At last we have owners prepared to buy from the "Young, Dynamic, Ambitious, Hard working" shelf.  We must value him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on November 26, 2018, 11:42:23 AM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on November 26, 2018, 03:03:11 AM
Hasn’t pretty much everyone wanted a progressive manager? Who has argued against a progressive manager? I think what has happened is most people got behind whoever was appointed because what choice did we have and by that point ultimately there were no alternatives once the appointments were made.

It’s wonderful that Dean Smith embraces modern concepts and wants to not only improve the team but himself. It’s really the least we should expect a manager to do as part of his professional development. That so many don’t, especially British managers shows exactly why we have been left behind as a nation.

I’ve been impressed him so far (as we all have) but it won’t always be smooth sailing. It will be great to see how this season pans out and then if he is able to compete at the top level. Given the right support he can do well. Look at someone like Eddie Howe at a much smaller club. Dean Smith won’t take this for granted like Bruce did. Bruce felt he had arrived. Dean Smith wants to keep improving and that is very encouraging for all of us.

I don't think that first line is true at all. Plenty of people have argued for us to go after people like Bruce, Fat Sam and Moyes when we've been looking, those types of managers always get a decent amount of support on the polls here and on the radio phone-ins, etc. Some people just want the safest option and generally that gets you managers who have an established style and aren't really going to do anything different.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on November 26, 2018, 12:19:34 PM
Quote from: brian green on November 26, 2018, 10:38:54 AM
In a nutshell for me it is clear that Dean wants the job not the money.   All our managers since and including MON have been mercenaries.  They have been bought off the shelf marked "Experienced, Safe Pair of Hands" or in Sherwood's case "Inexperienced but well regarded by the London Media close friend of the Villa CEO.".  At last we have owners prepared to buy from the "Young, Dynamic, Ambitious, Hard working" shelf.  We must value him.

Eh?

We've had 8 permanent mangers since MON and whilst you can absolutely put Bruce, McLeish and potentially Houllier in to the bracket of "Experienced, Safe Pair of Hands" I wouldn't describe any of them as mercenary.

We went fully down the "young, dynamic, ambitious" route with Lambert and Garde and to a lesser extent, RDM.

I don't recognise any of our recent mangers as being "experienced mercenaries".
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on November 26, 2018, 12:33:48 PM
Quote from: Ad@m on November 26, 2018, 12:19:34 PM
Quote from: brian green on November 26, 2018, 10:38:54 AM
In a nutshell for me it is clear that Dean wants the job not the money.   All our managers since and including MON have been mercenaries.  They have been bought off the shelf marked "Experienced, Safe Pair of Hands" or in Sherwood's case "Inexperienced but well regarded by the London Media close friend of the Villa CEO.".  At last we have owners prepared to buy from the "Young, Dynamic, Ambitious, Hard working" shelf.  We must value him.

Eh?

We've had 8 permanent mangers since MON and whilst you can absolutely put Bruce, McLeish and potentially Houllier in to the bracket of "Experienced, Safe Pair of Hands" I wouldn't describe any of them as mercenary.

We went fully down the "young, dynamic, ambitious" route with Lambert and Garde and to a lesser extent, RDM.

I don't recognise any of our recent mangers as being "experienced mercenaries".
Exactly, this is just the usual hyperbolic bullshit.  They have ranged from young and exiting to old and experienced.  From shite to highly promising.  I strongly suspect all were paid roughly the gong rate and were keen to be a success not have their careers blighted by failure at one of the bigger clubs they were likely to manage. 

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: itbrvilla on November 26, 2018, 12:57:38 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on November 26, 2018, 12:33:48 PM
Quote from: Ad@m on November 26, 2018, 12:19:34 PM
Quote from: brian green on November 26, 2018, 10:38:54 AM
In a nutshell for me it is clear that Dean wants the job not the money.   All our managers since and including MON have been mercenaries.  They have been bought off the shelf marked "Experienced, Safe Pair of Hands" or in Sherwood's case "Inexperienced but well regarded by the London Media close friend of the Villa CEO.".  At last we have owners prepared to buy from the "Young, Dynamic, Ambitious, Hard working" shelf.  We must value him.

Eh?

We've had 8 permanent mangers since MON and whilst you can absolutely put Bruce, McLeish and potentially Houllier in to the bracket of "Experienced, Safe Pair of Hands" I wouldn't describe any of them as mercenary.

We went fully down the "young, dynamic, ambitious" route with Lambert and Garde and to a lesser extent, RDM.

I don't recognise any of our recent mangers as being "experienced mercenaries".
Exactly, this is just the usual hyperbolic bullshit.  They have ranged from young and exiting to old and experienced.  From shite to highly promising.  I strongly suspect all were paid roughly the gong rate and were keen to be a success not have their careers blighted by failure at one of the bigger clubs they were likely to manage. 


There was a post on here that showed McLeish was one of the highest paid managers on the planet when he signed for us. Although I cant find it anywhere. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tomd2103 on November 26, 2018, 01:29:09 PM
Quote from: itbrvilla on November 26, 2018, 12:57:38 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on November 26, 2018, 12:33:48 PM
Quote from: Ad@m on November 26, 2018, 12:19:34 PM
Quote from: brian green on November 26, 2018, 10:38:54 AM
In a nutshell for me it is clear that Dean wants the job not the money.   All our managers since and including MON have been mercenaries.  They have been bought off the shelf marked "Experienced, Safe Pair of Hands" or in Sherwood's case "Inexperienced but well regarded by the London Media close friend of the Villa CEO.".  At last we have owners prepared to buy from the "Young, Dynamic, Ambitious, Hard working" shelf.  We must value him.

Eh?

We've had 8 permanent mangers since MON and whilst you can absolutely put Bruce, McLeish and potentially Houllier in to the bracket of "Experienced, Safe Pair of Hands" I wouldn't describe any of them as mercenary.

We went fully down the "young, dynamic, ambitious" route with Lambert and Garde and to a lesser extent, RDM.

I don't recognise any of our recent mangers as being "experienced mercenaries".
Exactly, this is just the usual hyperbolic bullshit.  They have ranged from young and exiting to old and experienced.  From shite to highly promising.  I strongly suspect all were paid roughly the gong rate and were keen to be a success not have their careers blighted by failure at one of the bigger clubs they were likely to manage. 


There was a post on here that showed McLeish was one of the highest paid managers on the planet when he signed for us. Although I cant find it anywhere.

I remember reading something at the time saying he was in the top 20.  I think the one thing Dean Smith is showing that his predecessors didn't is a burning ambition for both himself and the club.  The first thing most of our recent managers have done is pour cold water on any ambitions fans might have had for the club and tried to tell us that we should be satisfied bumping along the bottom reaches of the Premier League and then mid-table of the Championship. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on November 26, 2018, 02:21:07 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on November 26, 2018, 09:15:50 AM
Good stuff so far, keep it up Smithy.

I do think some people are getting a bit over excited though - there's a long, long way to go yet.
I'm not getting over excited. I just think Deano could be our Alex Ferguson.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on November 26, 2018, 02:48:06 PM
Quote from: The Edge on November 26, 2018, 02:21:07 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on November 26, 2018, 09:15:50 AM
Good stuff so far, keep it up Smithy.

I do think some people are getting a bit over excited though - there's a long, long way to go yet.
In not getting over excited. I just think Deano could be our Alex Ferguson.

I confess to being over-excited. Mea culpa.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: clash city rocker on November 26, 2018, 03:04:46 PM
I know that Dean has only had 6 games in charge but the last time I was this positive was the day MON signed.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SamTheMouse on November 26, 2018, 03:19:50 PM
Things are going well at the moment. We'll find out whether he really is the new messiah when we hit a bad patch, so there's no point going overboard yet, but it's hard not to get a bit excited.

His demeanour is great, he says the right things, he's clearly a student of the game and a thinker, and he has a clear footballing ethos that is built around winning the ball high up the pitch and creating chances. It makes for entertaining stuff. The players seem to have taken to him, too.

He might just be the manager we've all been waiting for for so long.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: clash city rocker on November 26, 2018, 03:33:38 PM
Quote from: SamTheMouse on November 26, 2018, 03:19:50 PM
Things are going well at the moment. We'll find out whether he really is the new messiah when we hit a bad patch, so there's no point going overboard yet, but it's hard not to get a bit excited.

His demeanour is great, he says the right things, he's clearly a student of the game and a thinker, and he has a clear footballing ethos that is built around winning the ball high up the pitch and creating chances. It makes for entertaining stuff. The players seem to have taken to him, too.

He might just be the manager we've all been waiting for for so long.

I so bloody hope so.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tomd2103 on November 26, 2018, 03:38:27 PM
Quote from: SamTheMouse on November 26, 2018, 03:19:50 PM
Things are going well at the moment. We'll find out whether he really is the new messiah when we hit a bad patch, so there's no point going overboard yet, but it's hard not to get a bit excited.

His demeanour is great, he says the right things, he's clearly a student of the game and a thinker, and he has a clear footballing ethos that is built around winning the ball high up the pitch and creating chances. It makes for entertaining stuff. The players seem to have taken to him, too.

He might just be the manager we've all been waiting for for so long.

Agree with that Sam.  As it stands, he hasn't even had the chance yet to fully assemble his backroom team (both the coaching staff and other support staff) let alone start piecing together the team the way he wants it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on November 26, 2018, 04:27:21 PM
I stand by every word of what I said about the size of the pay package was to a greater or lesser degree an inducement to come to the Villa for our managers post MON. I genuinely think the money was secondary to Dean Smith. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: clash city rocker on November 26, 2018, 04:31:52 PM
Quote from: brian green on November 26, 2018, 04:27:21 PM
I stand by every word of what I said about the size of the pay package was to a greater or lesser degree an inducement to come to the Villa for our managers post MON. I genuinely think the money was secondary to Dean Smith.

Agree that the money wasn't Dean's priority.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on November 26, 2018, 04:34:03 PM
Well of course it was "greater or lesser". Dean Smith wouldn't be manager if we offered to pay him £200 a week. Jack wouldn't be here if we offered £500 a week and so on. Every single person employed full time by Villa is here because of the money paid.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on November 26, 2018, 04:39:38 PM
And if you think money doesn't play a part ask yourself who you reckon over the 5 years has taken a pay cut to leave their job to join the Villa.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on November 26, 2018, 04:42:14 PM
I think for some manager's, it was a step up as well especially for the likes of Lambert and Mcleish. It was always a no brainer for Smith but I'm sure he would have known what kind of deal Bruce and previous managers would have been on. Despite the money though, it is still a prestigious job to hold.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on November 26, 2018, 04:42:37 PM
Quote from: brian green on November 26, 2018, 04:27:21 PM
I stand by every word of what I said about the size of the pay package was to a greater or lesser degree an inducement to come to the Villa for our managers post MON. I genuinely think the money was secondary to Dean Smith. 
Every word?

Quote from: brian green on November 26, 2018, 04:27:21 PM
  All our managers since and including MON have been mercenaries. 
Non of them were mercenaries when they arrived.  Not a single one.  Some held on for their pay-off but it's hard to think of any manager in this day and age who doesn't.

Quote from: brian green on November 26, 2018, 04:27:21 PM
They have been bought off the shelf marked "Experienced, Safe Pair of Hands" or in Sherwood's case "Inexperienced but well regarded by the London Media close friend of the Villa CEO.".   
MON was hugely hot property at the time of the appointment, not a 'safe pair of hands'  Lambert was the bright young thing at the time.  Sherwood you mention above.  Garde was also young and well thought of.  Di Matteo was pretty young too.  Really only 2 of the 9 managers appointed could be considered to be in your category and to a man everybody agrees McLeish was a daft appointment.

Quote from: brian green on November 26, 2018, 04:27:21 PM
  At last we have owners prepared to buy from the "Young, Dynamic, Ambitious, Hard working" shelf. 
Arguably they tried to do that when appointing MON, Lambert, Sherwood, Garde & Di Matteo.

You may be right that money would have been less of a motivator for Smith, but the rest of your comments are just nonsense.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: passport1 on November 26, 2018, 04:44:35 PM
Its a bit naive to think that the modern game is about anything other than money.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on November 26, 2018, 04:46:20 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on November 26, 2018, 04:39:38 PM
And if you think money doesn't play a part ask yourself who you reckon over the 5 years has taken a pay cut to leave their job to join the Villa.

I'd say the last one was probably Sir Graham and that was over 30 years ago.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on November 26, 2018, 04:52:21 PM
i know he’s not a manager but didn’t Hutton have better money options but chose to sign with us
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on November 26, 2018, 04:55:19 PM
Quote from: john e on November 26, 2018, 04:52:21 PM
i know he’s not a manager but didn’t Hutton have better money options but chose to sign with us
Do you mean when he re-signed last summer?  If so, yes he did he had a two year contract offer from Forrest.  But a very different situation really.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on November 26, 2018, 04:58:50 PM
Quote from: john e on November 26, 2018, 04:52:21 PM
i know he’s not a manager but didn’t Hutton have better money options but chose to sign with us

If we'd offered 5K a week and someone had offered him £50k a week, do you think he'd be with us? There's a difference between accepting a bit less money but still being paid very well and having a competitive wage, to being underpaid the going rate but working for us just because we're Villa.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on November 26, 2018, 05:25:35 PM
I'm not sure that labelling managers post MON as mercenaries is fair either. For some, it was the biggest job they've had and i'm sure they wanted to be make a massive success at it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on November 26, 2018, 05:38:11 PM
Houllier: Semi retired
McLeish: left a tinpot second division side
Lambert: Took the biggest job he'll ever have
Sherwood: On the dole
Garde: On the dole
RDM: On the dole
Bruce: On the dole

Hardly a mercenary hall of fame imo.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rigadon on November 26, 2018, 05:44:36 PM
According to wikipedia, Garde is manager of Montreal Impact.  But I totally agree with the wider point about previous managers, they weren't mercenaries.  But they were all to varying degrees 'disappointing'.   
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on November 26, 2018, 05:45:53 PM
I meant were they were when we appointed them.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rigadon on November 26, 2018, 05:48:01 PM
Ah, well as you were then :)   I must admit, I am surprised RG is working after his 'experience' at Villa.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on November 26, 2018, 05:50:03 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on November 26, 2018, 04:58:50 PM
Quote from: john e on November 26, 2018, 04:52:21 PM
i know he’s not a manager but didn’t Hutton have better money options but chose to sign with us

If we'd offered 5K a week and someone had offered him £50k a week, do you think he'd be with us? There's a difference between accepting a bit less money but still being paid very well and having a competitive wage, to being underpaid the going rate but working for us just because we're Villa.

I thought I and I might well be wrong because wages and contracts are not my thing, that he had had better monetary offers from elsewhere and chose to stay with us

whether the difference is large or small it's still unusual in modern day football
if its even true of course
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on November 26, 2018, 05:54:09 PM
So far, so good. He's shown he's not afraid, he has a plan, and if that doesn't work he has another one. He's ambitious, like we should be. He understands how big we are and how much bigger we can be again. He doesn't seem in awe of the job at all and has geat staff behind him too.

We don't know if he's good enough yet though the signs are promising. When we have a bad patch, which is inevitable, we'll see if he has what it takes. So far, I think he's showing that he will.

I'm not sure who the last manager was that understood us like Smith does. Sir Graham? Sir Brian? Gregory perhaps?

That's what's been missing all these years.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on November 26, 2018, 06:05:28 PM
Quote from: john e on November 26, 2018, 05:50:03 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on November 26, 2018, 04:58:50 PM
Quote from: john e on November 26, 2018, 04:52:21 PM
i know he’s not a manager but didn’t Hutton have better money options but chose to sign with us

If we'd offered 5K a week and someone had offered him £50k a week, do you think he'd be with us? There's a difference between accepting a bit less money but still being paid very well and having a competitive wage, to being underpaid the going rate but working for us just because we're Villa.

I thought I and I might well be wrong because wages and contracts are not my thing, that he had had better monetary offers from elsewhere and chose to stay with us

whether the difference is large or small it's still unusual in modern day football
if its even true of course

The bit less is the key thing, do you think Forest, or anyone, offered say 20K+ more a week than we did?
There's also a big difference in staying somewhere you're happy at for a bit less money at the end of your career and being in your prime and taking a pay cut to move clubs.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Border villan on November 26, 2018, 06:13:44 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on November 26, 2018, 04:39:38 PM
And if you think money doesn't play a part ask yourself who you reckon over the 5 years has taken a pay cut to leave their job to join the Villa.
Cafu took a pay cut to stay this summer.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on November 26, 2018, 06:17:21 PM
Again, as it's 1 post up, he didn't leave a job to join us.

To simply it, how many 34 year old players does anyone think are better paid than him in this division?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on November 26, 2018, 06:19:42 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on November 26, 2018, 06:05:28 PM
Quote from: john e on November 26, 2018, 05:50:03 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on November 26, 2018, 04:58:50 PM
Quote from: john e on November 26, 2018, 04:52:21 PM
i know he’s not a manager but didn’t Hutton have better money options but chose to sign with us

If we'd offered 5K a week and someone had offered him £50k a week, do you think he'd be with us? There's a difference between accepting a bit less money but still being paid very well and having a competitive wage, to being underpaid the going rate but working for us just because we're Villa.

I thought I and I might well be wrong because wages and contracts are not my thing, that he had had better monetary offers from elsewhere and chose to stay with us

whether the difference is large or small it's still unusual in modern day football
if its even true of course

The bit less is the key thing, do you think Forest, or anyone, offered say 20K+ more a week than we did?
There's also a big difference in staying somewhere you're happy at for a bit less money at the end of your career and being in your prime and taking a pay cut to move clubs.

no I agree with you
Im not arguing against I was just racking my brain to find if any one in football has ever taken less and he's the only one I could come up with in recent times

although if you look at it the other way round I remember when we were looking for a new manager and names like Eddie Howe were mentioned people did say why would he drop down to us and we had no chance
well there's your answer offer him a big bag of money
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on November 26, 2018, 06:30:24 PM
Richards supposedly turned down more money to join us instead of Sunderland but he was still joining us on 60-70K a week, and technically he didn't leave a job to join us. He just used common sense of not wanting to play up there. Sadly.
Ultimately they are all part mercenary as the money paid does play a part, as much as Villa was a draw to him i'd fancy he's now one of the highest paid managers in this division.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Border villan on November 26, 2018, 06:30:49 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on November 26, 2018, 06:17:21 PM
Again, as it's 1 post up, he didn't leave a job to join us. J

To simply it, how many 34 year old players does anyone think are better paid than him in this division?
He is 33 as his birthday is on Friday. Try to be accurate.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on November 26, 2018, 06:34:49 PM
Good grief.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VILLA MOLE on November 26, 2018, 06:42:04 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on November 26, 2018, 06:30:24 PM
Richards supposedly turned down more money to join us instead of Sunderland but he was still joining us on 60-70K a week, and technically he didn't leave a job to join us. He just used common sense of not wanting to play up there. Sadly.
Ultimately they are all part mercenary as the money paid does play a part, as much as Villa was a draw to him i'd fancy he's now one of the highest paid managers in this division.


wow I ha forgotten about him again ,I wonder if he was there yesterday?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on November 26, 2018, 08:25:46 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on November 26, 2018, 06:34:49 PM
Good grief.
Naughty boy
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: London Villan on November 26, 2018, 08:30:16 PM
I wonder if Deano has even seen him.  What a waste a talent, money and a career.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on November 26, 2018, 10:23:10 PM
Quote from: paul_e on November 26, 2018, 11:42:23 AM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on November 26, 2018, 03:03:11 AM
Hasn’t pretty much everyone wanted a progressive manager? Who has argued against a progressive manager? I think what has happened is most people got behind whoever was appointed because what choice did we have and by that point ultimately there were no alternatives once the appointments were made.

It’s wonderful that Dean Smith embraces modern concepts and wants to not only improve the team but himself. It’s really the least we should expect a manager to do as part of his professional development. That so many don’t, especially British managers shows exactly why we have been left behind as a nation.

I’ve been impressed him so far (as we all have) but it won’t always be smooth sailing. It will be great to see how this season pans out and then if he is able to compete at the top level. Given the right support he can do well. Look at someone like Eddie Howe at a much smaller club. Dean Smith won’t take this for granted like Bruce did. Bruce felt he had arrived. Dean Smith wants to keep improving and that is very encouraging for all of us.

I don't think that first line is true at all. Plenty of people have argued for us to go after people like Bruce, Fat Sam and Moyes when we've been looking, those types of managers always get a decent amount of support on the polls here and on the radio phone-ins, etc. Some people just want the safest option and generally that gets you managers who have an established style and aren't really going to do anything different.

Someone wanting Sam Allardyce because he has a record of rescuing bad situations and therefore potentially turning us around in the short term doesn't exclude that individual from ideally wanting a progressive manager. An Allardyce in his years at Bolton was considered a progressive manager and one of the first to embrace data and analytics.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on November 26, 2018, 10:32:10 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on November 26, 2018, 10:23:10 PM
Quote from: paul_e on November 26, 2018, 11:42:23 AM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on November 26, 2018, 03:03:11 AM
Hasn’t pretty much everyone wanted a progressive manager? Who has argued against a progressive manager? I think what has happened is most people got behind whoever was appointed because what choice did we have and by that point ultimately there were no alternatives once the appointments were made.

It’s wonderful that Dean Smith embraces modern concepts and wants to not only improve the team but himself. It’s really the least we should expect a manager to do as part of his professional development. That so many don’t, especially British managers shows exactly why we have been left behind as a nation.

I’ve been impressed him so far (as we all have) but it won’t always be smooth sailing. It will be great to see how this season pans out and then if he is able to compete at the top level. Given the right support he can do well. Look at someone like Eddie Howe at a much smaller club. Dean Smith won’t take this for granted like Bruce did. Bruce felt he had arrived. Dean Smith wants to keep improving and that is very encouraging for all of us.

I don't think that first line is true at all. Plenty of people have argued for us to go after people like Bruce, Fat Sam and Moyes when we've been looking, those types of managers always get a decent amount of support on the polls here and on the radio phone-ins, etc. Some people just want the safest option and generally that gets you managers who have an established style and aren't really going to do anything different.

Someone wanting Sam Allardyce because he has a record of rescuing bad situations and therefore potentially turning us around in the short term doesn't exclude that individual from ideally wanting a progressive manager. An Allardyce in his years at Bolton was considered a progressive manager and one of the first to embrace data and analytics.

but there's always a reason to go for a sure thing rather than take a chance. As I say I think there's plenty of fans (but less on here to be fair) who would happily take bruceball for eternity if we won more games than we lost.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on November 26, 2018, 10:42:35 PM
Quote from: paul_e on November 26, 2018, 10:32:10 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on November 26, 2018, 10:23:10 PM
Quote from: paul_e on November 26, 2018, 11:42:23 AM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on November 26, 2018, 03:03:11 AM
Hasn’t pretty much everyone wanted a progressive manager? Who has argued against a progressive manager? I think what has happened is most people got behind whoever was appointed because what choice did we have and by that point ultimately there were no alternatives once the appointments were made.

It’s wonderful that Dean Smith embraces modern concepts and wants to not only improve the team but himself. It’s really the least we should expect a manager to do as part of his professional development. That so many don’t, especially British managers shows exactly why we have been left behind as a nation.

I’ve been impressed him so far (as we all have) but it won’t always be smooth sailing. It will be great to see how this season pans out and then if he is able to compete at the top level. Given the right support he can do well. Look at someone like Eddie Howe at a much smaller club. Dean Smith won’t take this for granted like Bruce did. Bruce felt he had arrived. Dean Smith wants to keep improving and that is very encouraging for all of us.

I don't think that first line is true at all. Plenty of people have argued for us to go after people like Bruce, Fat Sam and Moyes when we've been looking, those types of managers always get a decent amount of support on the polls here and on the radio phone-ins, etc. Some people just want the safest option and generally that gets you managers who have an established style and aren't really going to do anything different.

Someone wanting Sam Allardyce because he has a record of rescuing bad situations and therefore potentially turning us around in the short term doesn't exclude that individual from ideally wanting a progressive manager. An Allardyce in his years at Bolton was considered a progressive manager and one of the first to embrace data and analytics.

but there's always a reason to go for a sure thing rather than take a chance. As I say I think there's plenty of fans (but less on here to be fair) who would happily take bruceball for eternity if we won more games than we lost.

I agree and every time we've changed manager in recent years we've had plenty of people on here banging on about Allardyce. Depressingly.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Colhint on November 27, 2018, 12:52:09 AM
What I like is the fact that everyone in the squad is worth more now than 7 weeks ago. He has paid is own wages for the next two years.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Axl Rose on November 27, 2018, 04:06:58 AM
Quote from: Border villan on November 26, 2018, 06:30:49 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on November 26, 2018, 06:17:21 PM
Again, as it's 1 post up, he didn't leave a job to join us. J

To simply it, how many 34 year old players does anyone think are better paid than him in this division?
He is 33 as his birthday is on Friday. Try to be accurate.

Haha. Oh dear.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dante Lavelli on November 27, 2018, 07:02:13 AM
Quote from: Colhint on November 27, 2018, 12:52:09 AM
What I like is the fact that everyone in the squad is worth more now than 7 weeks ago. He has paid is own wages for the next two years.

Great point.  Getting and increasing the value of players is something we have been incredibly shit at over the years.  playing in a manner which attracts attention naturally does this, doing it well even mote so.

I was arguably a Smith doubter when all the names were being thrown around.  Thankfully his coaching has been exceptional and his aura exceeds what I was expecting.  My doubts were always the bits he did not do at Brentford; so the scouting, transfers, sports science, youth teams.  Those doubts still remain however they're tasks arguably outside his responsibility now with the spanish guy, Pitarch (?) at the club. 

In other words, he seems a very good fit for us right now, and if the spanish guy is equally competent then we'll be a good place for a long time.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on November 27, 2018, 07:55:48 AM
I completely forgot about the Spanish fella behind the scenes.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on November 27, 2018, 11:09:18 AM
Quote from: Dante Lavelli on November 27, 2018, 07:02:13 AM
Quote from: Colhint on November 27, 2018, 12:52:09 AM
What I like is the fact that everyone in the squad is worth more now than 7 weeks ago. He has paid is own wages for the next two years.

Great point.  Getting and increasing the value of players is something we have been incredibly shit at over the years.  playing in a manner which attracts attention naturally does this, doing it well even mote so.

I was arguably a Smith doubter when all the names were being thrown around.  Thankfully his coaching has been exceptional and his aura exceeds what I was expecting.  My doubts were always the bits he did not do at Brentford; so the scouting, transfers, sports science, youth teams.  Those doubts still remain however they're tasks arguably outside his responsibility now with the spanish guy, Pitarch (?) at the club. 

In other words, he seems a very good fit for us right now, and if the spanish guy is equally competent then we'll be a good place for a long time.

My slight worry is that plenty of managers have gone to bigger clubs and bottled it when the fans get on their back after a few poor results. I hope he strong-willed enough to handle that when it happens.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on November 27, 2018, 01:43:14 PM
i would imagine the new owners didn't know much about Dean Smith and left that decision to others that they have bought in

bet they are chuffed to bits at the moment
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: old man villa fan on November 27, 2018, 02:05:03 PM
It was interesting to see the CEO by the tunnel at the end of the game.  There does seem to be an enthusiasm around the Club these days. Something  we haven't seen for a number of years.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PGW on November 27, 2018, 02:35:02 PM
Quote from: old man villa fan on November 27, 2018, 02:05:03 PM
It was interesting to see the CEO by the tunnel at the end of the game.  There does seem to be an enthusiasm around the Club these days. Something  we haven't seen for a number of years.
I agree...i didn't notice whilst at game but watched the full game yesterday...it was good to see this togetherness and bond that, i won't say forming, it's already there in full view for all to see....it's brilliant.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on November 27, 2018, 06:55:51 PM
Quote from: john e on November 27, 2018, 01:43:14 PM
i would imagine the new owners didn't know much about Dean Smith and left that decision to others that they have bought in

bet they are chuffed to bits at the moment

Speaking of which have either been at games this season? Not that it matters to me overall any more than when Randy didn’t go. But just interesting to see if they are taking an interest and especially now they have their chosen team in place.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Pvb1968 on November 27, 2018, 09:48:05 PM
Dean smith is everything I wanted in someone to replace Bruce. Whatever happens this season we are coming back. Tammy Abraham will be the next Peter withe, I love him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: clash city rocker on November 27, 2018, 09:53:01 PM
Quote from: Pvb1968 on November 27, 2018, 09:48:05 PM
Dean smith is everything I wanted in someone to replace Bruce. Whatever happens this season we are coming back. Tammy Abraham will be the next Peter withe, I love him.

Well we all know what Peter Withe did in Rotterdam so I hope you are right.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on November 27, 2018, 10:22:43 PM
Quote from: clash city rocker on November 27, 2018, 09:53:01 PM
Quote from: Pvb1968 on November 27, 2018, 09:48:05 PM
Dean smith is everything I wanted in someone to replace Bruce. Whatever happens this season we are coming back. Tammy Abraham will be the next Peter withe, I love him.

Well we all know what Peter Withe did in Rotterdam so I hope you are right.

Hey! What goes on tour starts on tour!!

Oh, you mean the other night!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on November 28, 2018, 10:53:19 PM
9/10 for me so far.

Of course it's disappointing we didn't win tonight but I'm thoroughly enjoying watching us under Dean.

Team full of commitment, actually wanting to get on the front foot in games and pour forward. A derby win, one of the most entertaining games I've seen live tonight and a brilliant second half at Derby. It feels to me for first time in about 7 years we've got our Villa back.

Yes it's not all perfect but there's little he can do about Nyland or James Chester probably being in the worst form of his pro career.

What we're seeing is everything we wanted to under the previous manager. If we fail to meet our season objective, blame him. 5 points from games v Ipswich, Reading, Blackburn, Preston, Bristol and Sheff Weds.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on November 28, 2018, 10:57:36 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on November 28, 2018, 10:53:19 PM
What we're seeing is everything we wanted to under the previous manager. If we fail to meet our season objective, blame him. 5 points from games v Ipswich, Reading, Blackburn, Preston, Bristol and Sheff Weds.

Plus the defence he stuck us with for months until the Jan window.

I love Dean Smith, it may not last or go where we want it to but fuck me it's such a good feeling looking forward to games and enjoying being a Villa fan again. Pretty much everyone had Derby, sha and Forest as really tough games, we smashed in 12 goals and took 7 points and are pissed off it isn't 9 out of 9.

Meet the new boss, a world apart from the old one.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on November 28, 2018, 11:02:49 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on November 28, 2018, 10:57:36 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on November 28, 2018, 10:53:19 PM
What we're seeing is everything we wanted to under the previous manager. If we fail to meet our season objective, blame him. 5 points from games v Ipswich, Reading, Blackburn, Preston, Bristol and Sheff Weds.

Plus the defence he stuck us with for months until the Jan window.

I love Dean Smith, it may not last or go where we want it to but fuck me it's such a good feeling looking forward to games and enjoying being a Villa fan again. Every had Derby, sha and Forest as really tough games, we smashed in 12 goals and took 7 points and are pissed off it isn't 9 out of 9.

Meet the new boss, a world apart from the old one.

Axel is playing really well now (obviously should've got tighter on Grabban for last goal) and I think the FBs look better under Dean aswell. Ultimately though if your usually reliable captain is gifting a goal a game to the opposition that's a big problem and I imagine he'd have been left our if we actually had another CB at the club.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on November 28, 2018, 11:03:53 PM
It’s worth considering that under Bruce we wouldn’t be scoring the goals but would still be shipping them.  I reckon we would’ve been in a relegation fight thanks to his negligence.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Matt Collins on November 28, 2018, 11:13:49 PM
The transformation in the quality of our attacking play is pretty incredigle. I thought it would take longer

Reflects very badly on Bruce
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on November 28, 2018, 11:18:09 PM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on November 28, 2018, 11:03:53 PM
It’s worth considering that under Bruce we wouldn’t be scoring the goals but would still be shipping them.  I reckon we would’ve been in a relegation fight thanks to his negligence.

He messed up a very easy start to the season. We failed to win v Bristol, Sheff Weds, Ipswich Reading, Preston and Blackburn. All teams in the bottom half I think.

That's the reason we're not in the top 6, not results like tonight.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on November 28, 2018, 11:22:56 PM
Second highest scorers in the division but fifth worst defence. 30 goals in 19 games is poor but can be rescued in January. As others have said, make sure we are in touch come the end of the window and hope for a much stronger second half to the season.  I don't go into any game now thinking we cannot win.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on November 28, 2018, 11:24:18 PM
Quote from: Newby on November 28, 2018, 11:22:56 PM
I don't go into any game now thinking we cannot score 8.

FTFY
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on November 28, 2018, 11:25:58 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on November 28, 2018, 11:24:18 PM
Quote from: Newby on November 28, 2018, 11:22:56 PM
I don't go into any game now thinking we cannot score 8.

FTFY

Should say 9, you loser!!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on November 28, 2018, 11:27:21 PM
The Steve Bruce factor still makes me feel too negative at times.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on November 28, 2018, 11:29:35 PM
Fair enough Mr shin.  I humbly apologise.  8 will suffice.  As long as we only concede 7.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villafirst on November 29, 2018, 03:43:01 PM
Sounds like Albert will be fit for the Baggies game - Deano said they're waiting for the ankle swelling to go down. Saturday will be too soon for him.
Jedinak and James Bree will be available also next week. BB could be back in 2/3 weeks. Lansbury about 2 weeks. Davis is nearly ready for an U23 game. So some hope that players will be fit soon.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: XXVilla on November 29, 2018, 04:55:52 PM
This is the first time I’ve enjoyed football at VP since Lambert’s first season when we started to pull away from relegation.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villafirst on November 29, 2018, 06:48:52 PM
To be fair we had a great couple of months under Sherwood when got to the FA Cup final beating Liverpool in the semi and avoided relegation with some great fooball. 4-0 at Sunderland, 1-0 at Spurs, beat Chelsea, Everton, West Ham at home and of course the baggies twice in 4 days!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: andyh on November 29, 2018, 08:07:40 PM
Sherwood was a geezer twat.
Whatever football was played, and however successful we would be under him, he would always be a geezer twat and that would end up coming to the fore.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on November 29, 2018, 08:52:07 PM
Hutton suspended for the Boro game, I guess Elmo at right back.  Could be interesting with him and Bolasie down the right hand side.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: not3bad on November 29, 2018, 09:03:06 PM
Quote from: XXVilla on November 29, 2018, 04:55:52 PM
This is the first time I’ve enjoyed football at VP since Lambert’s first season when we started to pull away from relegation.

There was also the short period just after Sherwood took over.

EDIT: I really should have learned by now to read more replies before diving in.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on November 29, 2018, 09:51:47 PM
Quote from: Newby on November 29, 2018, 08:52:07 PM
Hutton suspended for the Boro game, I guess Elmo at right back.  Could be interesting with him and Bolasie down the right hand side.

With the full backs flying forward I think AEM will suit the system even more than Hutton does so looking forward to seeing how he does as that's one area we're obviously not light on players.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Iamkmkm on November 30, 2018, 12:23:21 AM
At first i thought so many wanted him becuse he was a local guy and a villa fan, but i understand now, i know it's very early days but just hearing him talking football is so refreshing, is like a big stone has dropped from my heart, I think he will take us up this season and i think he will be a brilliant PL manager aswell, very exciting times ahead.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villafirst on November 30, 2018, 05:07:49 AM
Quote from: andyh on November 29, 2018, 08:07:40 PM
Sherwood was a geezer twat.
Whatever football was played, and however successful we would be under him, he would always be a geezer twat and that would end up coming to the fore.

But it was a great couple of months with Benteke scoring for fun!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dcdavecollett on November 30, 2018, 10:49:42 PM
And look what's happened to Benteke since! Shocking, isn't it?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 01, 2018, 07:25:14 PM
I hope Dean goes on to be our Arsene Wenger.  Give him a 10 year contract extension now.  Imagine what he can do with a few transfer windows behind him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 01, 2018, 07:30:39 PM
We look like a modern football team. We look like we intend to, nay, expect to, batter everyone stupid enough to turn up to play us.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on December 01, 2018, 07:37:30 PM
Batter them and serve them up with chips and mushy peas.  UTV.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on December 01, 2018, 07:39:02 PM
the day we appointed him I went out and put money on us to win the league at 25/1

i know it’s still a longish shot but I’m still glad i did
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Deano's Mullet on December 01, 2018, 07:39:58 PM
Love him. Amazing.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on December 01, 2018, 07:42:04 PM
Love him, he understands football
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VillaLoyal on December 01, 2018, 07:43:27 PM
I dont remember Villa playing like this in a long long time

Deano !!!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: IFWaters on December 01, 2018, 07:44:10 PM
In the 8 games since Deano took over we are 2nd in the form table, averaging 2 points per game for 16 points. Norwich mind you, have 22.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VillaLoyal on December 01, 2018, 07:45:55 PM
Quote from: IFWaters on December 01, 2018, 07:44:10 PM
In the 8 games since Deano took over we are 2nd in the form table, averaging 2 points per game for 16 points. Norwich mind you, have 22.

And we should have beaten Forest and QPR. And got something from that Norwich game 8)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 01, 2018, 07:46:36 PM
Thank you Dean, you’re making Villa a pleasure to behold and a team to be feared.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: frank black on December 01, 2018, 08:16:30 PM
 👍🏼
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 01, 2018, 08:23:30 PM
Quote from: john e on December 01, 2018, 07:39:02 PM
the day we appointed him I went out and put money on us to win the league at 25/1

i know it’s still a longish shot but I’m still glad i did

Will it make up for what you put on Moyes becoming our boss?! ;)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy65 on December 01, 2018, 08:31:22 PM
A manager with some fresh ideas, some inspiration, tactics and loves to attack, attack, attack. Pleasure to watch
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VillaLoyal on December 01, 2018, 08:38:10 PM
Steve Bruce September 2018. "Who are they going to get thats any better?"
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: adrenachrome on December 01, 2018, 08:46:14 PM
Quote from: VillaLoyal on December 01, 2018, 08:38:10 PM
Steve Bruce September 2018. "Who are they going to get thats any better?"

And let's remember that he said this after Brentford, with a fraction of our resources, had run rings around us several times. Blind as a bat, sad to say.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on December 01, 2018, 08:59:08 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 01, 2018, 08:23:30 PM
Quote from: john e on December 01, 2018, 07:39:02 PM
the day we appointed him I went out and put money on us to win the league at 25/1

i know it’s still a longish shot but I’m still glad i did

Will it make up for what you put on Moyes becoming our boss?! ;)

that's true but I'm glad I never collected on that one
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: robleflaneur on December 01, 2018, 09:16:36 PM
Quote from: VillaLoyal on December 01, 2018, 08:38:10 PM
Steve Bruce September 2018. "Who are they going to get thats any better?"
Ian Holloway,on Quest,bringing out that old Chestnut that Bruce was ex Blues and was never accepted.No mention of the change in style of football and how Smith has improved players.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: McGraths Dry Cleaning on December 01, 2018, 09:19:58 PM
Quote from: john e on December 01, 2018, 08:59:08 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 01, 2018, 08:23:30 PM
Quote from: john e on December 01, 2018, 07:39:02 PM
the day we appointed him I went out and put money on us to win the league at 25/1

i know it’s still a longish shot but I’m still glad i did

Will it make up for what you put on Moyes becoming our boss?! ;)

that's true but I'm glad I never collected on that one

ha ha amen to that

You can make the opposite bet (so bet on Villa not to win the league) at odds of 15.5 on Betfair. So you could guarantee yourself a profit whatever happens!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on December 01, 2018, 09:28:47 PM
We’ve just shown the rest of the league we can tear a new arse for any team in front of their own fans whatever their record is.

I love smith. Bruce gave us 2 games that got me out of my seat the whole time he was here. Smith has given us 4 already. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: garyshawsknee on December 01, 2018, 09:34:50 PM
Quote from: john e on December 01, 2018, 07:39:02 PM
the day we appointed him I went out and put money on us to win the league at 25/1

i know it’s still a longish shot but I’m still glad i did

Tammy was 20-1 to be top scorer when Smith first took over, gutted I didn't put a fiver on, because he won't be 20-1 now!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: papa lazarou on December 01, 2018, 09:37:51 PM
Quote from: robleflaneur on December 01, 2018, 09:16:36 PM
Quote from: VillaLoyal on December 01, 2018, 08:38:10 PM
Steve Bruce September 2018. "Who are they going to get thats any better?"
Ian Holloway,on Quest,bringing out that old Chestnut that Bruce was ex Blues and was never accepted.No mention of the change in style of football and how Smith has improved players.
What a tedious, banal, limited twat. An ideal example of why, in this age, the old boys network should be binned and not given any credence in the media. Still, his old mate will give him a call tonight and say thanks pal.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on December 01, 2018, 09:39:32 PM
Quote from: papa lazarou on December 01, 2018, 09:37:51 PM
Quote from: robleflaneur on December 01, 2018, 09:16:36 PM
Quote from: VillaLoyal on December 01, 2018, 08:38:10 PM
Steve Bruce September 2018. "Who are they going to get thats any better?"
Ian Holloway,on Quest,bringing out that old Chestnut that Bruce was ex Blues and was never accepted.No mention of the change in style of football and how Smith has improved players.
What a tedious, banal, limited twat. An ideal example of why, in this age, the old boys network should be binned and not given any credence in the media. Still, his old mate will give him a call tonight and say thanks pal.

To be fair to Colin Murray he challenged it straight away
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: RichardBatchelor on December 01, 2018, 09:46:56 PM
Very very impressive. Such poise and intelligence, absolutely love the bloke.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: clash city rocker on December 01, 2018, 10:13:36 PM
The blokes a fuckin revelation.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 01, 2018, 10:15:34 PM
Quote from: LeeB on December 01, 2018, 09:39:32 PM
Quote from: papa lazarou on December 01, 2018, 09:37:51 PM
Quote from: robleflaneur on December 01, 2018, 09:16:36 PM
Quote from: VillaLoyal on December 01, 2018, 08:38:10 PM
Steve Bruce September 2018. "Who are they going to get thats any better?"
Ian Holloway,on Quest,bringing out that old Chestnut that Bruce was ex Blues and was never accepted.No mention of the change in style of football and how Smith has improved players.
What a tedious, banal, limited twat. An ideal example of why, in this age, the old boys network should be binned and not given any credence in the media. Still, his old mate will give him a call tonight and say thanks pal.

To be fair to Colin Murray he challenged it straight away

What did Murray say?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: papa lazarou on December 01, 2018, 10:24:36 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on December 01, 2018, 10:15:34 PM
Quote from: LeeB on December 01, 2018, 09:39:32 PM
Quote from: papa lazarou on December 01, 2018, 09:37:51 PM
Quote from: robleflaneur on December 01, 2018, 09:16:36 PM
Quote from: VillaLoyal on December 01, 2018, 08:38:10 PM
Steve Bruce September 2018. "Who are they going to get thats any better?"
Ian Holloway,on Quest,bringing out that old Chestnut that Bruce was ex Blues and was never accepted.No mention of the change in style of football and how Smith has improved players.
What a tedious, banal, limited twat. An ideal example of why, in this age, the old boys network should be binned and not given any credence in the media. Still, his old mate will give him a call tonight and say thanks pal.

To be fair to Colin Murray he challenged it straight away

What did Murray say?
He didn't say anything in contradiction. He did say that we were playing high risk football, which the fans wanted, which Holloway agreed with. It just boils my piss that he had to get that in about Bruce when it has no substance.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mike on December 01, 2018, 10:46:42 PM
Quote from: papa lazarou on December 01, 2018, 10:24:36 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on December 01, 2018, 10:15:34 PM
Quote from: LeeB on December 01, 2018, 09:39:32 PM
Quote from: papa lazarou on December 01, 2018, 09:37:51 PM
Quote from: robleflaneur on December 01, 2018, 09:16:36 PM
Quote from: VillaLoyal on December 01, 2018, 08:38:10 PM
Steve Bruce September 2018. "Who are they going to get thats any better?"
Ian Holloway,on Quest,bringing out that old Chestnut that Bruce was ex Blues and was never accepted.No mention of the change in style of football and how Smith has improved players.
What a tedious, banal, limited twat. An ideal example of why, in this age, the old boys network should be binned and not given any credence in the media. Still, his old mate will give him a call tonight and say thanks pal.

To be fair to Colin Murray he challenged it straight away

What did Murray say?
He didn't say anything in contradiction. He did say that we were playing high risk football, which the fans wanted, which Holloway agreed with. It just boils my piss that he had to get that in about Bruce when it has no substance.

You're right, but remember everyone watching knows that Ian Holloway is a complete twat so won't have taken any notice.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on December 01, 2018, 10:52:32 PM
I love the fact that smith is doing this now, not after January, with the same imbalanced squad Bruce assembled and couldn’t get a song out of.

I’m sure he’ll still find a way to play the victim and rewrite history but these recent results and the palpable buzz amongst the same players who looked defeated under Bruce say it all. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: papa lazarou on December 01, 2018, 11:00:50 PM
Quote from: papa lazarou on December 01, 2018, 10:24:36 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on December 01, 2018, 10:15:34 PM
Quote from: LeeB on December 01, 2018, 09:39:32 PM
Quote from: papa lazarou on December 01, 2018, 09:37:51 PM
Quote from: robleflaneur on December 01, 2018, 09:16:36 PM
Quote from: VillaLoyal on December 01, 2018, 08:38:10 PM
Steve Bruce September 2018. "Who are they going to get thats any better?"
Ian Holloway,on Quest,bringing out that old Chestnut that Bruce was ex Blues and was never accepted.No mention of the change in style of football and how Smith has improved players.
What a tedious, banal, limited twat. An ideal example of why, in this age, the old boys network should be binned and not given any credence in the media. Still, his old mate will give him a call tonight and say thanks pal.

To be fair to Colin Murray he challenged it straight away

What did Murray say?
He didn't say anything in contradiction. He did say that we were playing high risk football, which the fans wanted, which Holloway agreed with. It just boils my piss that he had to get that in about Bruce when it has no substance.
Good point.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: robbo1874 on December 01, 2018, 11:01:18 PM
I used to listen to the odd Steve Bruce pre-match presser towards the end of his time with us. Difference between night and day listening to Smith speak.

I listen to all his interviews, pre and post match now. This is mainly because I don’t think, during his short time here, I have read or heard any better match summaries from anybody else, whether they be pundits, journos, or whoever.

You can’t help but think that this guy is going to take us places. Best thing of all is he’s a Villa man, so he will enjoy the highs and feel the lows, the same as all of us do.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 01, 2018, 11:09:41 PM
I hope in time he’ll be our Eddie Howe who very astutely sets up his team based on the opponent and always plays an attractive and adventurous style irrespective of who that opponent is. Once we establish ourselves than Dean is able to use his much greater resources well and get us back to being a top 8 or better club.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on December 01, 2018, 11:09:50 PM
Smith is like Chris Hughton a thoroughly decent bloke but with a better football brain. So far so good but he has not achieved anything yet. I do hope that this season he  will do.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: adrenachrome on December 01, 2018, 11:44:07 PM
Quote from: olaftab on December 01, 2018, 11:09:50 PM
Smith is like Chris Hughton a thoroughly decent bloke but with a better football brain. So far so good but he has not achieved anything yet. I do hope that this season he  will do.

Unmitigated twaddle.

He has kept a club, with a ground capacity of little over 7,000, in a division two leagues above their resources at a time when the PL is increasing parachute payments to those ejected from their ranks in the hope that they will come back soon.

In the meantime, his team has run rings around us in most of the games played because our erstwhile manager thought along the same lines as you.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on December 01, 2018, 11:49:20 PM
And I wouldn't agree with the Hughton football brain comparison bit either. Chris is a very decent manager with a very good football brain.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on December 01, 2018, 11:49:21 PM
Quote from: adrenachrome on December 01, 2018, 11:44:07 PM
Quote from: olaftab on December 01, 2018, 11:09:50 PM
Smith is like Chris Hughton a thoroughly decent bloke but with a better football brain. So far so good but he has not achieved anything yet. I do hope that this season he  will do.

Unmitigated twaddle.

He has kept a club, with a ground capacity of little over 7,000, in a division two leagues above their resources at a time when the PL is increasing parachute payments to those ejected from their ranks in the hope that they will come back soon.

In the meantime, his team has run rings around us in most of the games played because our erstwhile manager thought along the same lines as you.
I don't want to put words in his mouth but I think olaftab meant Smith hasn't achieved anything yet referring to his time with us.  He's improved us already of course but ultimately he'll be judged on whether he gets us up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 01, 2018, 11:50:27 PM
So much for grounds being safer these days if Brentford's average attendance is a few thousand above capacity!  :P
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on December 01, 2018, 11:52:02 PM
Yes exactly h_c.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on December 01, 2018, 11:56:53 PM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on December 01, 2018, 11:49:20 PM
And I wouldn't agree with the Hughton football brain comparison bit either. Chris is a very decent manager with a very good football brain.
Smith's teams Brentford and now Villa play better football than Hughton's however I agree Hughton is a very good manager.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Smoke on December 01, 2018, 11:57:03 PM
Quote from: robleflaneur on December 01, 2018, 09:16:36 PM
Ian Holloway,on Quest,bringing out that old Chestnut that Bruce was ex Blues and was never accepted.No mention of the change in style of football and how Smith has improved players.

Nobody gives a shit what that Half arsed football manager who used to be famous thinks anyway.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on December 01, 2018, 11:58:59 PM
Quote from: Smoke on December 01, 2018, 11:57:03 PM
Quote from: robleflaneur on December 01, 2018, 09:16:36 PM
Ian Holloway,on Quest,bringing out that old Chestnut that Bruce was ex Blues and was never accepted.No mention of the change in style of football and how Smith has improved players.

Nobody gives a shit what that Half arsed football manager who used to be famous thinks anyway.

That'd be why we're still repeating a remark he made nearly 8 years ago.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brassneck on December 02, 2018, 12:01:31 AM
You could argue that the (albeit) thick Wolves fans thought their manager was the best thing since sliced bread last season, Likewise Cardiff & Warnock.  We all know what happened at Fulham as well.

Let's keep our feet on the ground.  We're all delighted but it's a marathon not a sprint.

Interesting shout for RB next week.  Other than that, I think the team picks itself.  Personally, I wouldn't change it and I suspect that Smith won't either.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 02, 2018, 12:03:25 AM
Him believing that's the reason is why he's an out of work manager who's failed in his last few jobs. The game has moved on but the mentality of managers like him and Bruce is still where it was a decade or more ago.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on December 02, 2018, 12:06:22 AM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on December 02, 2018, 12:03:25 AM
Him believing that's the reason is why he's an out of work manager who's failed in his last few jobs. The game has moved on but the mentality of managers like him and Bruce is still where it was a decade or more ago.

He knew his job inside out, so he thought. And that's why he's yesterday's man.

Mourinho seems to have fallen into the same trap, only that version is hilarious as it has no impact on us.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on December 02, 2018, 12:09:09 AM
The thing I have noticed about these 'old school' managers is they only ever seem to talk about themselves in interviews.  See Mourinho the other night, banging on about his CL qualifications, Bruce to a lesser extent banging on about who we would get who was better.  It is also very noticeable that all of the players are now talking positively about the coaching, the training.  Conor who was one of Bruce's biggest fans was waxing lyrical after the game tonight about what a breath of fresh air Smith et al have been.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Smoke on December 02, 2018, 12:15:20 AM
.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 02, 2018, 12:15:33 AM
That's part of what I mean. Bruce was convinced his way was right, because it was the way that worked before. Anyone who thought otherwise was 'hysterical' and so on. I can't imagine Bruce ever really believing anything he did was wrong, I doubt if he watched our last few games there'd be a single question he'd ask himself about why the way we play is so far ahead of what he could serve up on a regular basis.

Comparing the way Smith talks about the game and then Bruce with his "put your boots on" or "it's off wi' me heed' nonsense it really is like they are talking about a different sport.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Smoke on December 02, 2018, 12:17:14 AM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on December 01, 2018, 11:58:59 PM
Quote from: Smoke on December 01, 2018, 11:57:03 PM
Quote from: robleflaneur on December 01, 2018, 09:16:36 PM
Ian Holloway,on Quest,bringing out that old Chestnut that Bruce was ex Blues and was never accepted.No mention of the change in style of football and how Smith has improved players.

Nobody gives a shit what that Half arsed football manager who used to be famous thinks anyway.

That'd be why we're still repeating a remark he made nearly 8 years ago.



To be fair to the prick, he turned out to be spot on. We became a complete omni  shambles and the slide only really stopped last season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Pvb1968 on December 02, 2018, 12:28:15 AM
Our manager isn't part of any clique, and has earned his right to be here and showcase his talents, long may it continue.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: wittonwarrior on December 02, 2018, 12:52:35 AM
I want your babies Dean Smith
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: West Derby Villan on December 02, 2018, 01:12:39 AM
Dean Smith has turned our club round in a matter of weeks with the same players that the previous manager couldn't get a tune from. He doesn't big himself up or slag anyone off. He has integrity and is willing to learn. He has turned a boring lacklustre team into a team that is currently the second highest scorers in the division. He has intelligence and ideas, he has a plan "B" he does his homework on the opposition, he picks a team that will score goals, he won't sit back if we go one up, I repeat he's done this with another managers squad. He's intelligent and always willing to learn. Best of all he's one of us! As a previous poster said, give home a ten year contract and let him build a dynasty. I Love Dean Smith. UTV
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on December 02, 2018, 01:16:41 AM
We are going up. Easily. Just hope he doesn't concentrate too hard on promotion and neglect our chances of winning the cup n'all.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 02, 2018, 01:50:47 AM
For some perspective of the improvement under Dean Smith. He took over after we lost at a Millwall. Bruce had been turfed after Preston. The table on October 10th on the day he was appointed read us sitting 15th, on 15 points, won 3, drew 6, lost 3. We had scored 20, conceded 20. Joint 4th in goals scored, second last in goals conceded.

In the 8 games since: we’ve won 5, drew 1, lost 2, scored 19, conceded 10 picking up 16 points, now in 8th spot. Joint 2nd with Leeds in the form table for the past 5 games, we are 2nd in goals scored, 2 behind the stripeys and joint 16th in goals conceded.

Most importantly we look brilliant much of the time in attack and have a dedicated way of playing that gives us a better than even chance of winning every game we play in. Despite the problems at the back we’ve kept 4 clean sheets; two of those away from home at promotion rivals Derby and Boro.

The last 5 games are a much truer indication of how we will be the rest of the season than the first 3 were where he was still implementing his vision. We won’t win them all but we’ll give it real good go every time. And it will be a lot of fun in the process.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Axl Rose on December 02, 2018, 02:55:51 AM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on December 02, 2018, 01:50:47 AM
For some perspective of the improvement under Dean Smith. He took over after we lost at a Millwall. Bruce had been turfed after Preston. The table on October 10th on the day he was appointed read us sitting 15th, on 15 points, won 3, drew 6, lost 3. We had scored 20, conceded 20. Joint 4th in goals scored, second last in goals conceded.

In the 8 games since: we’ve won 5, drew 1, lost 2, scored 19, conceded 10 picking up 16 points, now in 8th spot. Joint 2nd with Leeds in the form table for the past 5 games, we are 2nd in goals scored, 2 behind the stripeys and joint 16th in goals conceded.

Most importantly we look brilliant much of the time in attack and have a dedicated way of playing that gives us a better than even chance of winning every game we play in. Despite the problems at the back we’ve kept 4 clean sheets; two of those away from home at promotion rivals Derby and Boro.

The last 5 games are a much truer indication of how we will be the rest of the season than the first 3 were where he was still implementing his vision. We won’t win them all but we’ll give it real good go every time. And it will be a lot of fun in the process.

Spot on, mate.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on December 02, 2018, 07:36:33 AM
Of all the attributes Dean Smith brings, setting aside his being a Villa fan (which he does if the subject is raised) he is comfortable with Birmingham, it is his home town.  Too many of our managers since Ron Saunders gave the clear impression that they bought into the myth that the West Midlands in general and Birmingham in particular is intrinsically inferior to other places like London, Liverpool and Manchester.  I am proud that he is a Villa fan like me.  I am proud he is a Brummie like me.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on December 02, 2018, 08:10:28 AM
Has anyone in the marketing department realised the anagram?
D- Is the man :)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: andyh on December 02, 2018, 08:26:23 AM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on December 02, 2018, 01:50:47 AM
For some perspective of the improvement under Dean Smith. He took over after we lost at a Millwall. Bruce had been turfed after Preston. The table on October 10th on the day he was appointed read us sitting 15th, on 15 points, won 3, drew 6, lost 3. We had scored 20, conceded 20. Joint 4th in goals scored, second last in goals conceded.

In the 8 games since: we’ve won 5, drew 1, lost 2, scored 19, conceded 10 picking up 16 points, now in 8th spot. Joint 2nd with Leeds in the form table for the past 5 games, we are 2nd in goals scored, 2 behind the stripeys and joint 16th in goals conceded.

Most importantly we look brilliant much of the time in attack and have a dedicated way of playing that gives us a better than even chance of winning every game we play in. Despite the problems at the back we’ve kept 4 clean sheets; two of those away from home at promotion rivals Derby and Boro.

The last 5 games are a much truer indication of how we will be the rest of the season than the first 3 were where he was still implementing his vision. We won’t win them all but we’ll give it real good go every time. And it will be a lot of fun in the process.
Agree with all this TV.

And...we should have won 2 of the games that we didn’t.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on December 02, 2018, 09:13:37 AM
There’s loads of things I like about Smith he’s made loads of improvements in such a short time

but the main one for me is I’m just enjoying watching us play football again
I could have cried with joy last night when the commentator said the match was between the arch pragmatists verses the entertainers

The last time it was this entertaining was probably under Big Ron and there will be many on the site who won’t have been around then,
I’m so pleased for them

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rigadon on December 02, 2018, 09:17:25 AM
He has this squad playing to its potential, which is something that eluded Bruce in almost all of the time he was manager.  That is down to coaching.  We have the best players in the league and a coaching team that can get them playing.  Happy times ahead, I'm sure of it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: jwarry on December 02, 2018, 09:21:11 AM
Quote from: john e on December 02, 2018, 09:13:37 AM
There’s loads of things I like about Smith he’s made loads of improvements in such a short time

but the main one for me is I’m just enjoying watching us play football again
I could have cried with joy last night when the commentator said the match was between the arch pragmatists verses the entertainers

The last time it was as entertaining as this was probably Big Ron and there will be many on the site who won’t have been around then,
I’m so pleased for them



Yes it felt good when he said that.  Amazing that in just over a month we can go from the most boring/predictable to the most exciting. That is some achievement
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: jwarry on December 02, 2018, 09:23:58 AM
Quote from: Rigadon on December 02, 2018, 09:17:25 AM
He has this squad playing to its potential, which is something that eluded Bruce in almost all of the time he was manager.  That is down to coaching.  We have the best players in the league and a coaching team that can get them playing.  Happy times ahead, I'm sure of it.

Just a pity Bruce didn’t pull off the two CBs he was after on deadline day but I suppose we’ve only got another month to fix that.  The goalkeeper is another matter.  Really hope he comes good but I can’t see it at the moment although I thought he did ok yesterday
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Bad English on December 02, 2018, 09:49:28 AM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on December 02, 2018, 08:10:28 AM
Has anyone in the marketing department realised the anagram?
D- Is the man :)
"Amend Shit"
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on December 02, 2018, 10:04:29 AM
It's a bit of an ego boost at the moment reading what others think of us.

We had a good side last season and a good campaign that wasn't quite up there. But we were functional, tough to beat and gritty.

This time the word frightening is cropping up a lot.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kipeye on December 02, 2018, 10:07:08 AM
Quote from: john e on December 02, 2018, 09:13:37 AM
There’s loads of things I like about Smith he’s made loads of improvements in such a short time

but the main one for me is I’m just enjoying watching us play football again
I could have cried with joy last night when the commentator said the match was between the arch pragmatists verses the entertainers

The last time it was this entertaining was probably under Big Ron and there will be many on the site who won’t have been around then,
I’m so pleased for them


This is what has killed many of us old 'uns. The reason we go on about playing in the 3rd tier was it turned the football round in exactly this way. It actually didn't matter so much what division we were playing in it became what we paid to watch. Even then, it took a few goes to get back to the Preeemier, but the journey was great.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kipeye on December 02, 2018, 10:08:21 AM
Quote from: Bad English on December 02, 2018, 09:49:28 AM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on December 02, 2018, 08:10:28 AM
Has anyone in the marketing department realised the anagram?
D- Is the man :)
"Amend Shit"
:)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on December 02, 2018, 10:12:49 AM
Quote from: Bad English on December 02, 2018, 09:49:28 AM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on December 02, 2018, 08:10:28 AM
Has anyone in the marketing department realised the anagram?
D- Is the man :)
"Amend Shit"
Nice one BE - for one minute I thought you were pulling me up for my anagramism
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Havencheese on December 02, 2018, 10:44:16 AM
If you're looking for a decent podcast, this one 'Who are ya' isn't a bad listen. The Brentford episode (link below) is informative and reveals a fair bit, it was produced just days prior to Smith joining Villa. The Bees have had a big slump since then. I'd forgotten that he replaced a very popular figure at the club in Mark Warburton and kept the club's ethos of attractive football and retaining value/improving players within the system. Smith gets a few mentions towards the end, however what's interesting is to hearing about the forward thinking setup he's come from at Brentford. I can't help but think some of it will be integrated in our very own setup of football operations.

https://audioboom.com/posts/7019503-brentford-defying-the-odds
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 02, 2018, 10:45:07 AM
The thing I like about Smith is that unlike Bruce, the good football is as a result of a plan, modern thinking and a defined way of playing.  Our default position under Bruce was average, interspersed by some good play because we could afford better players than most of the Championship. How many times did we read "hope this is our bad half" under Bruce?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nunkin1965 on December 02, 2018, 10:49:55 AM
Quote from: kipeye on December 02, 2018, 10:07:08 AM
Quote from: john e on December 02, 2018, 09:13:37 AM
There’s loads of things I like about Smith he’s made loads of improvements in such a short time

but the main one for me is I’m just enjoying watching us play football again
I could have cried with joy last night when the commentator said the match was between the arch pragmatists verses the entertainers

The last time it was this entertaining was probably under Big Ron and there will be many on the site who won’t have been around then,
I’m so pleased for them

I agree with this totally.
The way we're playing at the moment is a joy.
Friday's game can't come soon enough and regardless of the result I think we'll leave everything on the pitch because already the team are playing for the manager by totally buying into his philosophy.





This is what has killed many of us old 'uns. The reason we go on about playing in the 3rd tier was it turned the football round in exactly this way. It actually didn't matter so much what division we were playing in it became what we paid to watch. Even then, it took a few goes to get back to the Preeemier, but the journey was great.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: martin o`who?? on December 02, 2018, 02:21:11 PM
Possibly the most telling remark from last nights commentary was when they said Smith had said he was impressed with how quickly the players had adapted to his ideas and that it was testing him as a coach - there’s an ambition in that outlook that speaks volumes for him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy65 on December 02, 2018, 04:38:44 PM
It reminds me of BFR at his best in 92/93 and 76/77 under King Ron. Scoring for fun and playing some super stuff. Love it, absolutely love it
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on December 02, 2018, 05:25:02 PM
Quote from: martin o`who?? on December 02, 2018, 02:21:11 PM
Possibly the most telling remark from last nights commentary was when they said Smith had said he was impressed with how quickly the players had adapted to his ideas and that it was testing him as a coach - there’s an ambition in that outlook that speaks volumes for him.

a fair few people on here were saying from this time last season that we had the best squad in the league but we weren't using it and despite the changes in the summer I still think that's true. Having that belief vindicated so completely and so quickly by Smith is fantastic. I said I'd take 5 points off the top 2 by christmas as enough of a turnaround to put us right in the mix, I suspect we'll get a bit closer than that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dave P on December 02, 2018, 06:34:47 PM
It’s good to see how much Grealish is showing his true class now. Under Bruce’s style, he was too heavily relied on and too easily marked. Now, as an opposition defender, who do you mark when Grealish, McGinn, Bolasie, El Ghazi and Abraham are running at you?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villafirst on December 02, 2018, 06:43:11 PM
Quote from: Rudy65 on December 02, 2018, 04:38:44 PM
It reminds me of BFR at his best in 92/93 and 76/77 under King Ron. Scoring for fun and playing some super stuff. Love it, absolutely love it

76/77....now that was special!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 02, 2018, 07:03:43 PM
Quote from: Dave P on December 02, 2018, 06:34:47 PM
It’s good to see how much Grealish is showing his true class now. Under Bruce’s style, he was too heavily relied on and too easily marked. Now, as an opposition defender, who do you mark when Grealish, McGinn, Bolasie, El Ghazi and Abraham are running at you?

Spot on Dave.  Grealish's natural game isn't really about pace.  I was watching him intently yesterday, and he makes space for himself so easily, it's a joy to watch.  He makes playing the game appear effortless, like McGrath did, although Jack's nowhere near that level yet.  Jack just makes space for himself, then plays the ball to which ever one of our attacking options is best placed.  A couple of his passes were a bit awry, but I think that's something they're working on in training as he was trying to play the perfect pass a lot.  I know it's a different time and a level below, but this team is starting to remind me of the peak Atkinson years.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villafirst on December 02, 2018, 07:08:38 PM
Imagine Lewis Grabban in this team with DS coaching him....he'd score a hatful!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 02, 2018, 07:09:41 PM
Quote from: Villafirst on December 02, 2018, 07:08:38 PM
Imagine Lewis Grabban in this team with DS coaching him....he'd score a hatful!

Not sure we'd be able to fit both Grabban and Tammy in the same team.  Grabban was very good for us, but I do prefer Tammy.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on December 02, 2018, 07:54:59 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on December 02, 2018, 12:15:33 AM
That's part of what I mean. Bruce was convinced his way was right, because it was the way that worked before. Anyone who thought otherwise was 'hysterical' and so on. I can't imagine Bruce ever really believing anything he did was wrong, I doubt if he watched our last few games there'd be a single question he'd ask himself about why the way we play is so far ahead of what he could serve up on a regular basis.

Comparing the way Smith talks about the game and then Bruce with his "put your boots on" or "it's off wi' me heed' nonsense it really is like they are talking about a different sport.

I say this with no malice, but I'd imagine that our performances since Smith arrived will make it more difficult for Steve Bruce to get back aboard the gravy train. He was thoroughly found out while he was with us. He's bollock-naked in the middle of the Bullring since Smith took over.

Apologies to anybody eating their dinner for the last image.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on December 02, 2018, 07:59:14 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 02, 2018, 07:09:41 PM
Quote from: Villafirst on December 02, 2018, 07:08:38 PM
Imagine Lewis Grabban in this team with DS coaching him....he'd score a hatful!

Not sure we'd be able to fit both Grabban and Tammy in the same team.  Grabban was very good for us, but I do prefer Tammy.

Imagine Sam Johnstone in it.

If only the takeover had come that little bit earlier.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Hillbilly on December 02, 2018, 08:39:39 PM
Quote from: Rudy65 on December 02, 2018, 04:38:44 PM
It reminds me of BFR at his best in 92/93 and 76/77 under King Ron. Scoring for fun and playing some super stuff. Love it, absolutely love it
If this keeps up we may have to bestow on Dean Smith the highest honorary title there is; “Ron”.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on December 02, 2018, 08:53:05 PM
Quote from: Hillbilly on December 02, 2018, 08:39:39 PM
Quote from: Rudy65 on December 02, 2018, 04:38:44 PM
It reminds me of BFR at his best in 92/93 and 76/77 under King Ron. Scoring for fun and playing some super stuff. Love it, absolutely love it
If this keeps up we may have to bestow on Dean Smith the highest honorary title there is; “Ron”.

Hahaha
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Colhint on December 02, 2018, 09:00:12 PM
Is there anywhere I can get the stats, I mean passing in particular. I'd like to see it. I bet we have passed more in the last few games than we did in Bruce's games by a mile.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Pat Mustard on December 02, 2018, 09:01:22 PM
Just watching the 2017-18 season review on Sky and the difference between the team now and then has really hit home. Under Bruce you just knew that if things went wrong he wouldn’t know how to turn it around, not just in individual games but across a whole period of time.
I know Dean Smith has only been here for a short time, but I just don’t see us going through periods of 6-10 games where we barely get a win.

Ultimately what cost us last year was the rubbish start and terrible December. Given the resources at his disposal there was no way we should have taken that long to get into our stride, and then when things started to go wrong we should have been able to freshen up and still deal with most teams.

I’m sure we’ll still have hiccups, but I’m also sure most of us will accept that when the bloke in charge seems like he is able to do something about it. Automatic promotion is still a long way off, but I’m so much more confident that we’ll give it a bloody good go this time around. I also wouldn’t want to be the team that has to face us in the playoffs if that’s the way it goes.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: robleflaneur on December 02, 2018, 09:24:10 PM
Quote from: Hillbilly on December 02, 2018, 08:39:39 PM
Quote from: Rudy65 on December 02, 2018, 04:38:44 PM
It reminds me of BFR at his best in 92/93 and 76/77 under King Ron. Scoring for fun and playing some super stuff. Love it, absolutely love it
If this keeps up we may have to bestow on Dean Smith the highest honorary title there is; “Ron”.
Ron Smith.The moniker has an aura about it,probably mid 60s.Following in the footsteps of  such giants as Sir Ron Little and Ronnie McGrath.
Could we not have an end of season awards,'The Ronnies' ?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: BC Villain on December 02, 2018, 09:53:37 PM
Bruce still had the mindset that the only way to be successful in this league was to bore the opposition into submission and hope for a moment of individual brilliance from someone.  As Deano said after the match yesterday, you can't sit back in the Championship now as your asking for trouble.

We have great possession now, but it's possession used wisely to try and hurt the opposition - not just for the sake of it by managers trying to be clever
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: andyh on December 02, 2018, 10:00:24 PM
I know that the the argument is moot and I know that we have to take what we have and go with it.
BUT, if only the owners had been a little braver and appointed Deano in the international break before they did, like many of us were begging.
That extra few weeks and games could have made the world of difference to where we finally end up.

All that aside, I honestly think we can win the league.
I think if he brings in a quality CH in January, maybe a new new keeper, we can take this division apart.
Im not getting carried away with a few great results, I’m getting carried away with seeing that this team now fears no one...the fear should be with everyone else.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 02, 2018, 10:13:05 PM
Quote from: Colhint on December 02, 2018, 09:00:12 PM
Is there anywhere I can get the stats, I mean passing in particular. I'd like to see it. I bet we have passed more in the last few games than we did in Bruce's games by a mile.

whoscored.com is good for that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on December 02, 2018, 11:36:51 PM
We can still win this tinpot league. I reckon 19 wins out of 26 games will do it and Deano will piss that!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 03, 2018, 12:01:22 AM
We are showing that we have no fear against any side. What side above us right now, in our current form would be confident of beating us? We’ve gone and literally battered 2 of them in the top 4 at their place (Derby were top 4 at the time). Conversely this squad now has so much belief. They know they have the ability and players to change games. No lead is safe. We can turn it up almost at will at times.

So while I don’t think we will win every game what I am confident of is that we will enter every game from now on, wherever it is being played, with the belief we will win. And with some reinforcements in January it only makes us stronger and deeper. Something that not all of our rivals will be able to do and or rely on as injuries and suspensions kick in late in the season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OCD on December 03, 2018, 12:10:39 AM
It was only around this time last year that Fulham started getting it together and there’s no equivalent to Wolves this year. I think the rest of the league are starting to take notice of us. We’re one of the form teams despite a tricky run of fixtures. Wait until we get the reverse fixtures of the ‘easy’ ones that Bruce mostly screwed up and we get to fix problem areas in January. Bit by bit we’re pulling ourselves back into the fight for the automatic positions.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on December 03, 2018, 12:15:24 AM
 I want Deano to qualify us for inaugural  UEL2 in 20/21 which means finishing about 8th in the PL in 19/20 season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: stuart445 on December 03, 2018, 09:57:47 AM
Quote from: john e on November 23, 2018, 12:44:55 PM
Quote from: Clampy on November 22, 2018, 05:47:54 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on November 22, 2018, 05:33:12 PM
Now we have a real manager, it beggars belief why so many defended Bruce for so long.

He's gone. Why not look forward instead of griping?

i'm sure you would like us to forget about Bruce
your the one who backed him to the hilt for the last two years with a 10 minute window after the play off final before reverting to type and backing him yet again

we are now seeing the damage he has done by him while you were saying he was worth sticking with month after month day after day defending him to the death

its obvious now that the man was useless and we've wasted two years with him,
we will move on time will fade the memory of just how bad he was,
but for some it will take a bit more time than you his biggest fan

Bruce should have gone after the playoff final but we couldn't afford to sack him.

When we could afford to sack him keeping him was correct because had NSWE sacked him the moment they came in I'm convinced they wouldn't have appointed Smith they would have appointed Henry. By keeping Bruce proves to me that we finally have decent owners because they waited to work things out and get decent advice which has resulted it Smith being our manager
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Monty on December 03, 2018, 09:59:43 AM
The only reason to think about Bruce is the effect keeping him on had on our prospects this year. Can you imagine if Dean Smith had had a pre-season? We might have been doing a Wolves by now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on December 03, 2018, 10:52:45 AM
Quote from: Monty on December 03, 2018, 09:59:43 AM
The only reason to think about Bruce is the effect keeping him on had on our prospects this year. Can you imagine if Dean Smith had had a pre-season? We might have been doing a Wolves by now.
If we don't get promoted this season I think that will be the case next season. But I honestly believe we'll go up this season by finishing 1st or 2nd. There. I've said it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: darren woolley on December 03, 2018, 11:25:34 AM
Quote from: Monty on December 03, 2018, 09:59:43 AM
The only reason to think about Bruce is the effect keeping him on had on our prospects this year. Can you imagine if Dean Smith had had a pre-season? We might have been doing a Wolves by now.

Totally Agree Monty
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Tony Boucher on December 03, 2018, 12:16:59 PM
What's very noticeable to me is that we're scoring a lot of unspectaular goals (finishes, anyway).  This is because the way we play just seems to lead inevitably to a golden chance and whoever's on the end to knock it in, is immaterial - they're quite often queuing-up (eg. 2nd v Boro)! 
Pre-Deano, we scored a fair few belters, but that's because we had do, since we weren't creating enough simple chances.
I'm just getting used to us having a system in place which creates so many great opportunities and I'm loving it
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SamTheMouse on December 03, 2018, 02:06:53 PM
He's made me genuinely optimistic about our prospects for the first time in years.

The fact he's a Villa fan too gives the whole thing a potential goosebump-inducing, fairy-tale feel.

I've been trying not to get carried away, but fuck it. We're going to piss all over this shitty league!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on December 05, 2018, 08:43:19 PM
Under Smith we're averaging 2 points a game and we're something like number 1 for passes, pass completion and possession or something daft like that.

More than a bounce. That's evolution in epic quick time. It's like we've been bitten by a radioactive football spider.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Pvb1968 on December 05, 2018, 09:32:58 PM
Under smith we are a football team that will not look like we are playing Brazil from 1970 when we play Preston. At long last a proper manager who will give us a proper chance, no guarantee of anything but by christ its not boring and going knowhere. Let's enjoy the ride and hopefully entertainment.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Iamkmkm on December 05, 2018, 10:02:51 PM
Quote from: Monty on December 03, 2018, 09:59:43 AM
The only reason to think about Bruce is the effect keeping him on had on our prospects this year. Can you imagine if Dean Smith had had a pre-season? We might have been doing a Wolves by now.
We would already be promoted.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OCD on December 05, 2018, 10:53:05 PM
Smith's previously worked with limited resources and had them playing good, attacking football and getting the best out of his players.

Bruce has had resources his peers could only dream of and had them playing dour, direct football and turning good players into poor ones.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tomd2103 on December 06, 2018, 12:34:37 AM
Quote from: The Edge on December 03, 2018, 10:52:45 AM
Quote from: Monty on December 03, 2018, 09:59:43 AM
The only reason to think about Bruce is the effect keeping him on had on our prospects this year. Can you imagine if Dean Smith had had a pre-season? We might have been doing a Wolves by now.
If we don't get promoted this season I think that will be the case next season. But I honestly believe we'll go up this season by finishing 1st or 2nd. There. I've said it.

Agree.  I would imagine he has still got so much work to do in terms of building his team both on and off the pitch, so we are only really seeing the beginning of what the club under him might be.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 07, 2018, 11:15:40 PM
The mugging of the handball and our profligacy in a weird way shows how much Dean’s done. I watch us now, and barring a few slips, we look so dangerous. I genuinely think every team will fear us. We’ll go up, and we’ll do it well if we strengthen a bit defensively.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on December 07, 2018, 11:19:03 PM
He's working with someone else's players and doing a great job.  I still think we've not found our level yet.  Give him a bit of money to spend and I honestly think we will go up via the play offs at the very least. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Pete3206 on December 07, 2018, 11:22:53 PM
Agree. I'm already looking forward to next week.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on December 07, 2018, 11:24:24 PM
I know it is early days, but I love watching us under Dean Smith. We're a fucking good side to watch, and he's only been here a couple of months.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Axl Rose on December 07, 2018, 11:24:52 PM
We look like Brentford on steroids. I used to see them play, especially against us, and think 'why can't we play like that?'. The answer at the time was glaringly obvious, but nowadays we're really good to watch.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on December 07, 2018, 11:53:01 PM


This is what  Dean Smith does in the summer.  This is partially why we are so much fcukin better.  He doesn't fuck off to the Algarve until he is pleading for his job in July.  I love the bloke.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on December 08, 2018, 12:31:55 AM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on December 07, 2018, 11:53:01 PM


This is what  Dean Smith does in the summer.  This is partially why we are so much fcukin better.  He doesn't fuck off to the Algarve until he is pleading for his job in July.  I love the bloke.

I couldn't be more chuffed that he's our manager.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: manic-road on December 08, 2018, 09:17:34 AM
The turnaround in performances of the first team since Dean arrived has changed dramatically for the better, I honestly think we will win the league this season. The system suits the players, and they are showing what they are capable of now rather than the rancid style of football that SB instilled on the team.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on December 08, 2018, 09:33:44 AM
The old adage that those who live by the sword die by the sword is true. We are now a wonderful team but it was that attacking mindset that cost us last night. We were still in that mood rather than looking after the clock, in injury time, that led to their equaliser.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: West Derby Villan on December 08, 2018, 10:42:11 AM
Quote from: olaftab on December 08, 2018, 09:33:44 AM
The old adage that those who live by the sword die by the sword is true. We are now a wonderful team but it was that attacking mindset that cost us last night. We were still in that mood rather than looking after the clock, in injury time, that led to their equaliser.

You're right mate, but I wouldn't change it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 08, 2018, 10:47:53 AM
Quote from: olaftab on December 08, 2018, 09:33:44 AM
The old adage that those who live by the sword die by the sword is true. We are now a wonderful team but it was that attacking mindset that cost us last night. We were still in that mood rather than looking after the clock, in injury time, that led to their equaliser.

Mind you better defenders and a keeper would mean we could still take this approach and concede less goals. Hutton and Chester got skinned for their first and both Chester and Nyland should have done better for the equalizer even if we got cheated on the end.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villafirst on December 08, 2018, 10:57:44 AM
Quote from: olaftab on December 08, 2018, 09:33:44 AM
The old adage that those who live by the sword die by the sword is true. We are now a wonderful team but it was that attacking mindset that cost us last night. We were still in that mood rather than looking after the clock, in injury time, that led to their equaliser.

Doesn't excuse the shit goalkeeping
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 08, 2018, 12:06:59 PM
Quote from: olaftab on December 08, 2018, 09:33:44 AM
The old adage that those who live by the sword die by the sword is true. We are now a wonderful team but it was that attacking mindset that cost us last night. We were still in that mood rather than looking after the clock, in injury time, that led to their equaliser.

I’d argue a dreadful decision by the officials cost us last night. If their player hadn’t been allowed to handle the ball twice we’d have won. Also that attacking attitude on most days would have had them buried by the time injury time came around. It’s definitely the right attitude.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: not3bad on December 08, 2018, 12:34:44 PM
I must admit I get a bit frustrated when people find our own players at fault because the other side cheated.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chris Smith on December 08, 2018, 12:47:34 PM
Quote from: olaftab on December 08, 2018, 09:33:44 AM
The old adage that those who live by the sword die by the sword is true. We are now a wonderful team but it was that attacking mindset that cost us last night. We were still in that mood rather than looking after the clock, in injury time, that led to their equaliser.

Yes, because taking a step back and inviting teams to attack has always worked so well in the past.

It wasn’t the mindset that cost us but profligate finishing. I love the current attitude and it is playing to our strengths.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on December 08, 2018, 12:48:55 PM
Quote from: not3bad on December 08, 2018, 12:34:44 PM
I must admit I get a bit frustrated when people find our own players at fault because the other side cheated.

if the officials had done their job properly we would have won 2-1

if Tammy had done his job properly we would have won 3 or 4 to one

if Nyland had done his job properly since he came we would be in the top 6 already

you can take your pick,
but I’d rather not rely on officials I’d rather our own players just get the job done like we have been doing in previous away games
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on December 08, 2018, 12:59:46 PM
Another good performance, we need to finish this exceptionally tricky run of games off by picking up 6 pts against Leeds and Stoke. Do that and we will be within striking distance entering the new year and the only way will be up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on December 08, 2018, 01:05:44 PM
Quote from: olaftab on December 08, 2018, 09:33:44 AM
The old adage that those who live by the sword die by the sword is true. We are now a wonderful team but it was that attacking mindset that cost us last night. We were still in that mood rather than looking after the clock, in injury time, that led to their equaliser.

we can’t play to let the clock click down, we just invite the other team to score
he did bring Whelan on to shore it up in midfield, fat lot of good that did

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: clash city rocker on December 08, 2018, 01:44:58 PM
There going to be ups , downs and frustrations. But for the first time in years I can't wait for match day to come..I'm bloody loving it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on December 08, 2018, 02:31:13 PM
I wish we were playing again tomorrow.

I can't wait for each game. We're the best side in the division.

Goalkeeper and a few others and we'll win the league.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on December 08, 2018, 07:03:20 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on December 08, 2018, 10:47:53 AM
Quote from: olaftab on December 08, 2018, 09:33:44 AM
The old adage that those who live by the sword die by the sword is true. We are now a wonderful team but it was that attacking mindset that cost us last night. We were still in that mood rather than looking after the clock, in injury time, that led to their equaliser.

Mind you better defenders and a keeper would mean we could still take this approach and concede less goals. Hutton and Chester got skinned for their first and both Chester and Nyland should have done better for the equalizer ...
That's the critical bit, and IMHO what Smith does about the replacements for LFB, CB and keeper in January will define our season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villafirst on December 08, 2018, 07:26:25 PM
I wish Deano had been made our manager when Di Matteo was sacked - over 2 years ago (yes, 2 years!). I honestly think we would be PL top-half, at least by now........Bruce was a massive mistake as Manager.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on December 08, 2018, 07:39:56 PM
Quote from: Chris Smith on December 08, 2018, 12:47:34 PM
Yes, because taking a step back and inviting teams to attack has always worked so well in the past.
No not taking a step back and defending it’s more about looking after the ball keeping hold of it which we are very good at and therefore reducing risk.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SamTheMouse on December 08, 2018, 08:55:06 PM
He's got it. Whatever "it" is, he's definitely got it
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VinnieChase84 on December 08, 2018, 09:22:54 PM
If only we had acted sooner and got him in....


(https://i.ibb.co/4JxTVss/1-CBE569-B-C044-4026-B122-9-F46-BD79-AA0-E.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4JxTVss)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: purpletrousers on December 09, 2018, 07:57:14 PM
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on December 08, 2018, 09:22:54 PM
If only we had acted sooner and got him in....


(https://i.ibb.co/4JxTVss/1-CBE569-B-C044-4026-B122-9-F46-BD79-AA0-E.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4JxTVss)


It doesn't need saying, which makes it such a damn pleasure to say it.

How often in recent years has it felt we haven't recruited the right manager, for a variety of reasons?

I don't care a bit whether he was first choice or not, and I'm not sure Dean Smith would either. It's such a relief to have a sensible, humble, mature, respectful, skilled, grounded man at the helm.

Again it doesn't need saying, the transformation that tactics, coaching, instilling confidence (presumably) has made is simply joyous.

 :)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 09, 2018, 08:02:35 PM
Quote from: Villafirst on December 08, 2018, 07:26:25 PM
I wish Deano had been made our manager when Di Matteo was sacked - over 2 years ago (yes, 2 years!). I honestly think we would be PL top-half, at least by now........Bruce was a massive mistake as Manager.


I honestly don't think he was ready at that point...he'd been at Brentford less than a year so I fear the job would've gobbled him up like Lambert as we still had major issues at the time e.g actually winning games.

Start of last year I had my reservations but no such problem this season as he's experienced enough at this level now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on December 09, 2018, 08:57:05 PM
Listening to Dean Smiths and Darren Moores  post match interview's after Fridays game was like night and day, I like Darren Moore in general but he could barely string a sentence together without saying ermmmmm or throwing a shite cliche in there.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: nigel on December 10, 2018, 09:02:46 AM
Quote from: LukeJames on December 09, 2018, 08:57:05 PM
Listening to Dean Smiths and Darren Moores  post match interview's after Fridays game was like night and day, I like Darren Moore in general but he could barely string a sentence together without saying ermmmmm or throwing a shite cliche in there.

In fairness there are plenty of managers, and players alike, who struggle speaking in front of the camera.

The only Night and Day for me was their differing views on the game
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave shelley on December 10, 2018, 09:27:50 AM
Quote from: nigel on December 10, 2018, 09:02:46 AM
Quote from: LukeJames on December 09, 2018, 08:57:05 PM
Listening to Dean Smiths and Darren Moores  post match interview's after Fridays game was like night and day, I like Darren Moore in general but he could barely string a sentence together without saying ermmmmm or throwing a shite cliche in there.

In fairness there are plenty of managers, and players alike, who struggle speaking in front of the camera.

The only Night and Day for me was their differing views on the game

Listening to Darren Moore's post-match interview, what I took from it was a man knowing his team had been very, very lucky and he couldn't actually come out and say so.  His difficulty seemed to me to be articulating this in words that didn't actually say so quickly enough.  I still like him though.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on December 10, 2018, 05:26:03 PM
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on October 12, 2018, 04:22:29 PM
Quote from: Drummond on October 12, 2018, 02:48:23 PM
Upper Trinity now open for Swansea. Nice.

Saw your post.
Rang to claim our old seats.

They've charged me extra money. They've not done that previously.

It's ffp gorn mad.

Back up there for Leeds. No mention of having to stump up extra money this time. All a bit confusing. Do I let it lie, or get in touch with the club to demand a refund for Swansea, or would that just be risking having to shell out for Leeds too?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Roysmert on December 10, 2018, 05:53:43 PM
I go back years with Dean's father, who's a good bloke but sad to see him struggling now. Dean's been brought up a) the proper way and b) the Villa way.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Bad English on December 10, 2018, 07:59:43 PM
Quote from: Monty on December 03, 2018, 09:59:43 AM
...imagine if Dean Smith had had a pre-season...

My 'Play Villa Bingo' card is filling up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 10, 2018, 11:36:04 PM
There’s a player in there somewhere.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: p_ad on December 11, 2018, 10:14:06 AM
It's like a new signing
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on December 11, 2018, 10:28:34 AM
Quote from: dave shelley on December 10, 2018, 09:27:50 AM
Quote from: nigel on December 10, 2018, 09:02:46 AM
Quote from: LukeJames on December 09, 2018, 08:57:05 PM
Listening to Dean Smiths and Darren Moores  post match interview's after Fridays game was like night and day, I like Darren Moore in general but he could barely string a sentence together without saying ermmmmm or throwing a shite cliche in there.

In fairness there are plenty of managers, and players alike, who struggle speaking in front of the camera.

The only Night and Day for me was their differing views on the game

Listening to Darren Moore's post-match interview, what I took from it was a man knowing his team had been very, very lucky and he couldn't actually come out and say so.  His difficulty seemed to me to be articulating this in words that didn't actually say so quickly enough.  I still like him though.
Darren sounds to me as a thoroughly decent man, an ordinary man who is rather good at his job. He may well get kicked out because of so called  image and PR requirements that come with a modern day Manager job but if that happens I hope they end up in League 2 ASAP.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Iamkmkm on December 13, 2018, 04:34:37 PM
Quote from: Villafirst on December 08, 2018, 07:26:25 PM
I wish Deano had been made our manager when Di Matteo was sacked - over 2 years ago (yes, 2 years!). I honestly think we would be PL top-half, at least by now........Bruce was a massive mistake as Manager.

I think we would be playing CL football by now, i have been a villa fan for 25 years and i have never been more exciting about Villa then iam know, and most of it is because of Dean smith, It's a joy just to hear him talk football, hopefully he will be our manager for the next 20 years.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: jwarry on December 13, 2018, 07:54:03 PM
Quote from: Iamkmkm on December 13, 2018, 04:34:37 PM
Quote from: Villafirst on December 08, 2018, 07:26:25 PM
I wish Deano had been made our manager when Di Matteo was sacked - over 2 years ago (yes, 2 years!). I honestly think we would be PL top-half, at least by now........Bruce was a massive mistake as Manager.

I think we would be playing CL football by now, i have been a villa fan for 25 years and i have never been more exciting about Villa then iam know, and most of it is because of Dean smith, It's a joy just to hear him talk football, hopefully he will be our manager for the next 20 years.

Incredible to think he was appointed just 9 weeks ago yesterday
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Pvb1968 on December 14, 2018, 12:53:46 AM
Dean smith could easily have won all of the games he has been in charge of this far after taking over a team that had won one in ten. How many of those dick heads in the media are still claiming Steve Bruce was our only hope?
Fecking awful manager.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on December 14, 2018, 06:56:18 AM
What do you think now Mr Carling at Loftus Road?

Dean Smith is building something and the crowds are coming. 41k for Swansea? 37k for Stoke? 41k for Leeds for half 1 on a Sunday?

Everton wouldn't get as good a home crowd as we do.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on December 14, 2018, 07:05:51 AM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on December 09, 2018, 08:02:35 PM
Quote from: Villafirst on December 08, 2018, 07:26:25 PM
I wish Deano had been made our manager when Di Matteo was sacked - over 2 years ago (yes, 2 years!). I honestly think we would be PL top-half, at least by now........Bruce was a massive mistake as Manager.


I honestly don't think he was ready at that point...he'd been at Brentford less than a year so I fear the job would've gobbled him up like Lambert as we still had major issues at the time e.g actually winning games.

Start of last year I had my reservations but no such problem this season as he's experienced enough at this level now.

I think the timing felt perfect, for both him and us.

I'm not normally a big believer in fate, but on this occasion I'll succumb to it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan For Life on December 14, 2018, 07:14:59 AM
I’m feeling the same about Dean Smith as I did about Sir Graham during his first season in charge.

Sir Graham turned us around and Dean is doing the same.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 14, 2018, 11:12:43 AM
I have no doubt he will get us promoted. If not this season for sure next. The big test will obviously be in the PL and for me there needs to be yardsticks set for progress. I find what Eddie Howe has done outstanding at Bournemouth. But he didn’t just arrive there. It’s been a steady and at times unbelievable journey to get a club of that size to where they are. Given the size of our club we could arrive there faster, and by faster I mean it may still take 3-5 years of being a PL club and investing year of year into players, systems and cementing a culture.

The one thing is that I am very much looking forward to what takes place and for the first time in ages have a high degree of faith it might actually happen.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on December 14, 2018, 11:52:38 AM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on December 14, 2018, 11:12:43 AM
I have no doubt he will get us promoted. If not this season for sure next. The big test will obviously be in the PL and for me there needs to be yardsticks set for progress. I find what Eddie Howe has done outstanding at Bournemouth. But he didn’t just arrive there. It’s been a steady and at times unbelievable journey to get a club of that size to where they are. Given the size of our club we could arrive there faster, and by faster I mean it may still take 3-5 years of being a PL club and investing year of year into players, systems and cementing a culture.

The one thing is that I am very much looking forward to what takes place and for the first time in ages have a high degree of faith it might actually happen.

I agree but it's not just Smith, the new owners are quietly getting on with things, Purslow is bringing a professionalism that we haven't had from a CEO and then the footballing side seems to be full of people who study the game and are up to date. Pitarch comes across well, JT is refreshing in his attitude to becoming a manager, most people with his playing career would've turned their nose up at coaching under someone from the lower leagues but he's embraced it. For he first time we seem to have an actual plan of how to structure the club to make the most of it.  We'll make mistakes, everyone does, but I trust the club to realise and fix them now, rather than trying to spin them as not having been mistakes.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: robleflaneur on December 14, 2018, 12:51:08 PM
I'm reading 'Blitzkrieg',an account of the 1940 collapse of France that led to the evacuation of Dunkirk.It tells about the lazy French  generals whose tactics were out of date and how poorly trained their troops were.
In contrast the Germans had military leaders who were constantly refining their methods and who repeatedly  drilled the army and airforce in the situations that they were likely to face but also asked people to think on their feet.
A book about war and its horrors shouldn't reflect on the merits of 2 managers but I was disappointed not to discover a General Le Bruce or a General Von Schmidt.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Diablo on December 14, 2018, 12:59:23 PM
Quote from: Ads on December 14, 2018, 06:56:18 AM
What do you think now Mr Carling at Loftus Road?

Dean Smith is building something and the crowds are coming. 41k for Swansea? 37k for Stoke? 41k for Leeds for half 1 on a Sunday?

Everton wouldn't get as good a home crowd as we do.
I must of missed this comment. Who is Mr Carling (at QPR)? What was the comment?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on December 14, 2018, 01:11:41 PM
you have to kiss a lot of frogs before you get a Prince



Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on December 14, 2018, 01:32:43 PM
Quote from: Diablo on December 14, 2018, 12:59:23 PM
Quote from: Ads on December 14, 2018, 06:56:18 AM
What do you think now Mr Carling at Loftus Road?

Dean Smith is building something and the crowds are coming. 41k for Swansea? 37k for Stoke? 41k for Leeds for half 1 on a Sunday?

Everton wouldn't get as good a home crowd as we do.
I must of missed this comment. Who is Mr Carling (at QPR)? What was the comment?

I assume it was some well-oiled opinionated chap that Ads had the pleasure of spending an evening within earshot of at Loftus Road.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on December 14, 2018, 01:41:51 PM
Got it one. We were worse off than under Bruce. I made the mistake of engaging with him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on December 14, 2018, 07:26:05 PM
Quote from: Ads on December 14, 2018, 01:41:51 PM
Got it one. We were worse off than under Bruce. I made the mistake of engaging with him.

his first 3 games I saw 2 live and the other on the telly

won one lost two, I wasn’t bothered I had already seen enough to know we had at last got the right man
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Diablo on December 14, 2018, 07:50:27 PM
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on December 14, 2018, 01:32:43 PM
Quote from: Diablo on December 14, 2018, 12:59:23 PM
Quote from: Ads on December 14, 2018, 06:56:18 AM
What do you think now Mr Carling at Loftus Road?

Dean Smith is building something and the crowds are coming. 41k for Swansea? 37k for Stoke? 41k for Leeds for half 1 on a Sunday?

Everton wouldn't get as good a home crowd as we do.
I must of missed this comment. Who is Mr Carling (at QPR)? What was the comment?

I assume it was some well-oiled opinionated chap that Ads had the pleasure of spending an evening within earshot of at Loftus Road.
Ah cheers (thanks for the confirmation too Ads) as we have a history with one of their ex managers spouting crap I thought I may have missed another one of their employees doing it again. The fact that we didn't deserve to lose to QPR must have made that conversation with Mr Carling even more grating. Fingers crossed they'll get Steve Bruce when their dutch maestro McClaren leaves.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 21, 2018, 01:40:46 PM
Listening to his press conference today just one more chance to say how proud I am
to have this man as our manager. He is absolutely one of us.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 23, 2018, 05:08:50 PM
Not good enough today Dean, I absolutely have faith obviously and I realise there are personnel limitations, but the defence and midfield just doesn’t look like it has a defined plan.
 That needs to change irrespective of who we get in.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on December 23, 2018, 05:20:34 PM
Very harsh. They have a plan, it's just the defence isn't up to delivering it. Elmohamady gives two goals away today - one in exactly the manner he gave the penalty away against Stoke.

Until he's had chance to bring his own players in there's no way we ought to be criticising him for losing against top of the table from a 95th minute goal with half a defence.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 23, 2018, 05:23:40 PM
They have a plan? Why have weaker players in the air picking up their strongest header of the ball? I really like what Dean is doing, it doesn’t mean he’s above criticism. The defence is not solely a personnel issue, it’s a key factor but it’s not everything.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brassneck on December 23, 2018, 05:24:06 PM
Honeymoon is over.

2 very poor back to back home performances.

2 points out of a possible 9 from the last 3 home games.

Valuable points lost at the death against Leeds, WBA & Forest (who were down to 10 men)

Work needs to be done.  Today has as good as killed off our hopes of top 2.  We need to get our act together and ensure we reach top 6 and end the season in form.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on December 23, 2018, 05:33:38 PM
I'm bemused as to how he came to the conclusion after Stoke thst Hourihane and Whelan were the answer.

Woeful from Smith the past two games. We've been outplayed twice on our own patch. Nowhere near good enough.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on December 23, 2018, 05:36:51 PM
I don't think he does think Hourihane and Whelan are the answer but he hasn't got much choice. Grealish and Lansbury are injured and Thor is on his way back from injury.

The defence is crap and is suffering from injuries.

On top of all that, these aren't his players.

That's his first home defeat and it was to top of the league in the 95th minute. Give the guy a break.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 23, 2018, 05:42:54 PM
You only have to look at the bench today to see how little option we had but to put out that midfield. I doubt that he would pick Hotlips and Whelan in the same midfield if he had other options.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 23, 2018, 05:45:19 PM
Quote from: Ads on December 23, 2018, 05:33:38 PM
I'm bemused as to how he came to the conclusion after Stoke thst Hourihane and Whelan were the answer.

Woeful from Smith the past two games. We've been outplayed twice on our own patch. Nowhere near good enough.

All our midfielders aren't fit.

Grealish out

Bjarni- would've put him on the hour but reality is he had an operation only 3 weeks ago.

Lansbury- 1 game in about 8 months and obviously wasn't fit to make the bench.

Jedinak- Can you imagine the outcry on here if he'd started. Dosen't fit the DS style anyway.

I can understand against a team like Leeds why he'd opt for midfielders who have regular match rhythm rather than ones who haven't played in months.

I actually thought Whelan had another decent game but obviously at 34 can't last for more than an hour against this type of opposition. Hourihane is very much missing in action though so he needs to become squad player once we do business in January.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on December 23, 2018, 05:45:52 PM
Didn’t take us long!  If Bruce was still Manager we would have bored our way to a 4-1 defeat.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brassneck on December 23, 2018, 05:52:51 PM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on December 23, 2018, 05:45:52 PM
Didn’t take us long!  If Bruce was still Manager we would have bored our way to a 4-1 defeat.

Are we not allowed to comment if it’s not good enough?

That’s the 2nd home game running that we’ve been 2nd best and the amount of last minute goals we’ve conceded recently has cost us the points needed to have had a realistic chance of top 2.

I appreciate that we’re going through a transitional period but the goals against is getting silly now, even allowing for the 4 poor defenders we have.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on December 23, 2018, 06:00:20 PM
In midfield he needs to give Doyle-Hayes and Clarke a chance, Houri and Whelan can't play together, we can't cope with the lack of mobility, especially with Elmo and Hutton at full back who both have the same problem. It's not down to fitness or effort, it's that they get caught on their heels too often and, as a group, leave too many gaps for players who drift between the lines.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 23, 2018, 06:07:07 PM
Nowhere near good enough today, completely outfought and outthought by Bielsa.  Look at the subs numbers for Leeds, Bielsa hasn't been scared to chuck the kids in.  What is the point in persevering with utter shite like Whelan and the defence when they are costing us goals and points, game after game after game.

His subs were awful today.  Kodjia was having a good game and giving them all sorts of problems, so to replace him like for like with El Ghazi was crazy.  Hogan is utterly fucking dreadful, and should never be in a squad again.  Seriously, give him away on a free transfer, and let him take Bjarnason with him on a two for one deal.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on December 23, 2018, 06:08:04 PM
And we’ve played against what essentially is still PL squad and the league leaders with the shittest defence in the league.  I thought the decision to start with Whelan was a bit strange but vindicated as without him we would’ve been completely overrun.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 23, 2018, 06:11:28 PM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on December 23, 2018, 06:08:04 PM
And we’ve played against what essentially is still PL squad and the league leaders with the shittest defence in the league.  I thought the decision to start with Whelan was a bit strange but vindicated as without him we would’ve been completely overrun.

I thought Whelan was awful today.  Looked completely past it, and so easily bypassed. He's supposed to be the buffer for a defence that needs a lot of help, but he provides nothing.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 23, 2018, 06:12:30 PM
I’m sure Dean is fully aware, and looking to address it, but we’ve scored two goals in each of our last 3 games and taken 2 points, it’s very obvious that our defensive as well as the personnel needs sorting.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on December 23, 2018, 06:12:36 PM
I’m not saying he was great but better than shit.  To be fair the midfield apart from McGinn were feckin awful.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 23, 2018, 06:13:55 PM
Also it’s not a crime for Dean to be out managed by Bielsa, I’m sure many have been, I just hope he learns from this.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on December 23, 2018, 06:19:41 PM
Whelan is dire. Just watched the Spurs goals and like Leeds, they make the pitch big to move the opposition and make transitioning quicker.

Whelan hasn't got the legs to press, hasn't got the legs to move it on with any pace and is way, way, way past it. Thanks Wor Bruce.

That said, Hourihane, good Lord. Fucking shocking excuse of a midfielder.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 23, 2018, 06:22:19 PM
Quote from: Ads on December 23, 2018, 06:19:41 PM
Whelan is dire. Just watched the Spurs goals and like Leeds, they make the pitch big to move the opposition and make transitioning quicker.

Whelan hasn't got the legs to press, hasn't got the legs to move it on with any pace and is way, way, way past it. Thanks Wor Bruce.

That said, Hourihane, good Lord. Fucking shocking excuse of a midfielder.

Hourihane would be OK in a three if the other player isn't Glenn fucking Whelan, ie somebody who doesn't play like he's wearing leg braces.  Otherwise he's a luxury we can't afford.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on December 23, 2018, 06:29:01 PM
Hourihane is a mirage off the ball. Badly outclassed by some pretty ordinary midfielders like Joe Allen and the Leeds lot.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on December 23, 2018, 06:32:12 PM
Quote from: Ads on December 23, 2018, 06:29:01 PM
Hourihane is a mirage off the ball. Badly outclassed by some pretty ordinary midfielders like Joe Allen and the Leeds lot.



Other than set pieces and the goals, he provides very little.  We need sooooo much more from him.  Lovely goal today but that apart, anonymous.  Inconsistency is a huge problem for us with the likes of El Ghazi, Kodjia, BB, Chester, Whelan, Jedinak, Hogan, Bolasie all up and down.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on December 23, 2018, 06:33:57 PM
Hourihane and Whelan lack pace, energy and commitment. I'd prefer to have seen Doyle-Hayes involved in midfield because we lacked the energy to compete; even if - and I hate to say this - Leeds were very good for much of the game.
When I talk about energy, I mean the sort demonstrated by Abraham and McGinn: they demonstrated what is required to get out of this league.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 23, 2018, 06:38:03 PM
Leeds were excellent, and you could tell they had trained to be fit enough to play their style. Dean is also suffering from Bruce’s lack of attention to players fitness.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 23, 2018, 06:43:33 PM
Dean’s post game interview was encouraging on the whole.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 23, 2018, 06:48:44 PM
Look at the Leeds bench today.  Apart from that lad on loan, it was all players from their youth team with an average age of about 19.  I don't know whether Bielsa has a choice in that due to injuries, but that Jack Clarke came on and made a huge difference.  Instead of giving the likes of O'Hare a similar chance to show what he can do, we bring on utter nobodies like Bjarnason and Hogan.  All that shithouse Bjarnason did was have the sheer nerve to lambast Tammy for not passing to him, before giving the ball away every single time it came to him.  As for Hogan, I'd honestly rather just play with 10 men.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on December 23, 2018, 07:09:53 PM
I have seen some crap passers of the ball in Villa shirts over the years but the combination of Whelan, Bjarnasson, Hourihane, Jedinak, Hogan and Hutton are the worst of all by a mile.  I know Jedinak did not play today.  When he plays he passes like Long John Silver.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on December 23, 2018, 07:10:54 PM
And Hogan runs like him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on December 23, 2018, 07:18:29 PM
Quote from: Ads on December 23, 2018, 06:29:01 PM
Hourihane is a mirage off the ball. Badly outclassed by some pretty ordinary midfielders like Joe Allen and the Leeds lot.



Fucking hell Ads, you're normally the happy clapper around here. Who's pissed on your chips tonight?

Leeds are the best team offensively we've seen at Villa Park this season so describing then as pretty ordinary is rather silly.

Likewise, Joe Allen, ordinary?! Someone who two years ago, reached the UEFA Cup final, the League Cup final, the semi-final of the Euros and got selected in the Euros team of the tournament?!

Go home Ads, you're drunk!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on December 23, 2018, 07:20:20 PM
What worries me about today is how good we made Leeds look. I know Bielsa is no mug but they’ve been struggling and grinding out results lately. Yet we let them run riot in the last half an hour. Players were at fault, sure, but the tactics and substitutions felt a little bit Tim Sherwood.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 23, 2018, 07:20:23 PM
Whelan was better than Hourihane. Not great but he can at least read a game and got back to stop a few of their attacks.

Apart from the odd goal, CH offers little in the general flow of a match. Disappointing as he was very much the heartbeat in midfield at Barnsley. Pretty much played the McGinn role there.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on December 23, 2018, 07:22:05 PM
And Hourihane getting stick because all he does is score goals!

He got double figures last season as a central midfielder. We've had plenty of seasons recently where our strikers haven't managed that and people are moaning that he's not doing more.

Christ!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 23, 2018, 07:31:13 PM
Quote from: Ad@m on December 23, 2018, 07:22:05 PM
And Hourihane getting stick because all he does is score goals!

He got double figures last season as a central midfielder. We've had plenty of seasons recently where our strikers haven't managed that and people are moaning that he's not doing more.

Christ!

I know I know but Sidwell used to chip in with goals but didn't take much to see he offered way less than Petrov, Barry and even NRC. I agree Hourihane's goals can be useful but play Bjarni in his position and he probably would get close to double figures.

We need better and DS knows better. New signing to circulate the ball better infront of the back 4 with McGinn and Grealish infront is way to go.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 23, 2018, 07:37:36 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on December 23, 2018, 07:31:13 PM
but play Bjarni in his position and he probably would get close to double figures.


Really disagree with that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on December 23, 2018, 07:41:35 PM
So do I.  Bjarnasson's product in the penalty area is wild and ragged.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 23, 2018, 07:42:47 PM
It probably didn't help matters that at the last minute AT gets fucked too. I'm not saying for a second that Dean Smith doesn't have to take a look at his tactics and maybe not play such an expansive game, but fuck me he's been dealt an awful hand that has only got worse with injuries to our key players as well as mind blowing basic errors by established pros.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 23, 2018, 07:44:44 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on December 23, 2018, 07:42:47 PM
It probably didn't help matters that at the last minute AT gets fucked too. I'm not saying for a second that Dean Smith doesn't have to take a look at his tactics and maybe not play such an expansive game, but fuck me he's been dealt an awful hand that has only got worse with injuries to our key players as well as mind blowing basic errors by established pros.

That's a fair point, but the established pros make the same mistakes every single game.  Bielsa isn't scared to play their kids, and he's just won 6 games in a row.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 23, 2018, 07:46:16 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 23, 2018, 07:44:44 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on December 23, 2018, 07:42:47 PM
It probably didn't help matters that at the last minute AT gets fucked too. I'm not saying for a second that Dean Smith doesn't have to take a look at his tactics and maybe not play such an expansive game, but fuck me he's been dealt an awful hand that has only got worse with injuries to our key players as well as mind blowing basic errors by established pros.

That's a fair point, but the established pros make the same mistakes every single game.  Bielsa isn't scared to play their kids, and he's just won 6 games in a row.

I just responded to your kids comment in the post match thread. I agree entirely.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on December 23, 2018, 08:08:57 PM
I agree wholeheartedly Martin.  How many times have we seen lazy, slovenly, Bodymoor Heath warm up, stubbed passes by our oldest seasoned pros?  Time and time again.  They do not concentrate or take their own performance seriously enough.  They play in their own private comfort zones.  One big reason is because they feel no pressure for their places.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 23, 2018, 08:16:18 PM
Quote from: brian green on December 23, 2018, 07:41:35 PM
So do I.  Bjarnasson's product in the penalty area is wild and ragged.

He does chip in with goals. Last minute winner v Wigan and also scored at Bristol. Obviously not a week in week out starter like Hourihane.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TopDeck113 on December 23, 2018, 08:23:12 PM
When Dean was appointed the general consensus was there would be bumps in the road until he could get a transfer window to at least redress some of Bruce's negligence in respect of our defence. 

It was also thought that the run of fixtures in December was a challenge.

So it came to pass that our defence fucked up and we lost to the team that now head the division. 

I'm not going to let one result spoil my Christmas or the fact that we have a manager that is setting us on the right path.  If not this season, then next we are going to tear this league apart under his management.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: wittonwarrior on December 23, 2018, 08:27:30 PM
He's the right man with a lot of work ahead getting shot of  average championship/Div 1 players.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on December 23, 2018, 08:27:56 PM
After today I would settle for getting into the Premiership within the next three years by penalties or goal difference.  This tear teams apart is becoming too much of a wet dream.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 23, 2018, 08:36:19 PM
Most of Leeds team are established players. That Clarke kid is obviously their Grealish stand out talent. Davis only came in because Barry Douglas was ill in the warm up.

We did play Bree who only just turned 20 when SB would've put Jedinak in there.

Likes of O'Hare need loans and then we can properly judge how close they are as tbh under 23 football friendlies simply dosen't cut it as a breeding ground in the modern game.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 23, 2018, 08:42:32 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on December 23, 2018, 08:36:19 PM
Most of Leeds team are established players. That Clarke kid is obviously their Grealish stand out talent. Davis only came in because Barry Douglas was ill in the warm up.

We did play Bree who only just turned 20 when SB would've put Jedinak in there.

Likes of O'Hare need loans and then we can properly judge how close they are as tbh under 23 football friendlies simply dosen't cut it as a breeding ground in the modern game.

The first team might be established players, but the entire bench was kids.  I'd say bringing the likes of O'Hare on would be beneficial to both him and us.  Even Davis would be a better option than Hogan.

"We put Scott Hogan on because he runs in behind and we keep looking to give it to him at his feet. The players have played with Scott enough to know what his strengths are."

Firstly Dean, no they haven't, and secondly, what are those strengths exactly?  Because I cannot think of a time when Hogan coming on as sub has worked for us.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Richard E on December 23, 2018, 08:44:15 PM
Or indeed Hogan starting.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on December 23, 2018, 08:54:28 PM
I cannot believe how Hogan continues to be credited with skills he does not have.  My assumption is the time honoured deceit that he cost a mountain of money so he must be good.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Richard E on December 23, 2018, 08:56:47 PM
Quote from: brian green on December 23, 2018, 08:54:28 PM
I cannot believe how Hogan continues to be credited with skills he does not have.  My assumption is the time honoured deceit that he cost a mountain of money so he must be good.

Or the habit of rating players inversely proportionately to the amount of time they actually spend in the team.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on December 23, 2018, 09:00:27 PM
Lots of people on here thought that if only Dean Smith were our manager. he'd get a tune out of Hogan. Well, that theory has fallen as flat as a witches tit. A must sell, sooner rather than later.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 23, 2018, 09:03:40 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 23, 2018, 08:42:32 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on December 23, 2018, 08:36:19 PM
Most of Leeds team are established players. That Clarke kid is obviously their Grealish stand out talent. Davis only came in because Barry Douglas was ill in the warm up.

We did play Bree who only just turned 20 when SB would've put Jedinak in there.

Likes of O'Hare need loans and then we can properly judge how close they are as tbh under 23 football friendlies simply dosen't cut it as a breeding ground in the modern game.

The first team might be established players, but the entire bench was kids.  I'd say bringing the likes of O'Hare on would be beneficial to both him and us.  Even Davis would be a better option than Hogan.

"We put Scott Hogan on because he runs in behind and we keep looking to give it to him at his feet. The players have played with Scott enough to know what his strengths are."

Firstly Dean, no they haven't, and secondly, what are those strengths exactly?  Because I cannot think of a time when Hogan coming on as sub has worked for us.

Leeds have much smaller squad than we do, Bielsa's choice and it's worked out pretty well so far.

I agree Hogan was odd sub given the circumstances but simply think his confidence is shot here as he's just a bit part player like he was under SB.

Davis hasn't played for nearly a year so like Adomah I guess DS just thought he simply didn't have the fitness for the situation.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on December 23, 2018, 09:03:48 PM
Yes, of course, the corollary of Woodhall's Theorem that states the reputation of a player is in inverse proportion to the time spent playing.   
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on December 23, 2018, 09:07:28 PM
If Davis was not fit enough to come on for 15 minutes he should not have been on the bench.  The bench is there for replacement players not decoration.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 23, 2018, 09:07:56 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on December 23, 2018, 09:03:40 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 23, 2018, 08:42:32 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on December 23, 2018, 08:36:19 PM
Most of Leeds team are established players. That Clarke kid is obviously their Grealish stand out talent. Davis only came in because Barry Douglas was ill in the warm up.

We did play Bree who only just turned 20 when SB would've put Jedinak in there.

Likes of O'Hare need loans and then we can properly judge how close they are as tbh under 23 football friendlies simply dosen't cut it as a breeding ground in the modern game.

The first team might be established players, but the entire bench was kids.  I'd say bringing the likes of O'Hare on would be beneficial to both him and us.  Even Davis would be a better option than Hogan.

"We put Scott Hogan on because he runs in behind and we keep looking to give it to him at his feet. The players have played with Scott enough to know what his strengths are."

Firstly Dean, no they haven't, and secondly, what are those strengths exactly?  Because I cannot think of a time when Hogan coming on as sub has worked for us.

Leeds have much smaller squad than we do, Bielsa's choice and it's worked out pretty well so far.

I agree Hogan was odd sub given the circumstances but simply think his confidence is shot here as he's just a bit part player like he was under SB.

Davis hasn't played for nearly a year so like Adomah I guess DS just thought he simply didn't have the fitness for the situation.
What would be the point of having him on the bench then?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 23, 2018, 09:33:09 PM
Depends on how the game goes I guess. Some managers like to get players involved in the 18 as quickly as possible even if they're not fully fit to get them feeling involved in things.

I imagine if we're 3 up in a game Davis would get 15-20 minutes to get back in swing of things.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Pat McMahon on December 23, 2018, 09:37:25 PM
There was a moment late on where Hogan was chasing a a through ball going to their keeper, and he sort of slowed down / pulled up like Devon Lock before accelerating again and I was reminded of Risso’s Tyrion Lannister comment.

I’ve always felt he would best best playing alongside a centre forward but other than a wee spell last January he has flattered to deceive.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on December 23, 2018, 09:43:00 PM
Devon Loch was very game and genuine, neither quality apparent in Scott Hogan.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 23, 2018, 09:48:10 PM
He's just never got going here. Picked up couple of injuries in his first 4-5 months and then fallen down the pecking order.

We've spent over 20m on him and McCormack plus further amount in wages.

It's better just to loan strikers at this level like Grabban and Abraham and sign them if we go up. We wouldn't have had the issues we did last summer if we had that strategy from 2016.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: passport1 on December 23, 2018, 10:57:26 PM
Two points from the last nine. It looks like the ' new manager bounce' has run its course. In fairness Smith needs a chance to get some of his players in although I have reservations about the naivety of his style of football.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on December 23, 2018, 11:00:09 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on December 23, 2018, 07:31:13 PM
Quote from: Ad@m on December 23, 2018, 07:22:05 PM
And Hourihane getting stick because all he does is score goals!

He got double figures last season as a central midfielder. We've had plenty of seasons recently where our strikers haven't managed that and people are moaning that he's not doing more.

Christ!

I know I know but Sidwell used to chip in with goals but didn't take much to see he offered way less than Petrov, Barry and even NRC. I agree Hourihane's goals can be useful but play Bjarni in his position and he probably would get close to double figures.

We need better and DS knows better. New signing to circulate the ball better infront of the back 4 with McGinn and Grealish infront is way to go.

Sidwell scored three league goals in his time with us, so he didn't even chip in that much.

Mind you, getting subbed on on 75 minutes every week by O'Neill can't have helped.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hipkiss92 on December 23, 2018, 11:52:47 PM
We’ve had 11 games under Smith and 9 of them have been against teams above us in the league. This season will be defined by the games we blew under Bruce, not the last 6 or 7.

The two teams weve played below us were in Smith’s first two games and we won both with clean sheets.

We’re in a better position with Smith in charge than even today’s game would suggest.

Also, we’re historically awful on Boxing Day, so am writing off the Swansea game now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brassneck on December 24, 2018, 12:47:58 AM
Quote from: hipkiss92 on December 23, 2018, 11:52:47 PM
We’ve had 11 games under Smith and 9 of them have been against teams above us in the league. This season will be defined by the games we blew under Bruce, not the last 6 or 7.

The two teams weve played below us were in Smith’s first two games and we won both with clean sheets.

We’re in a better position with Smith in charge than even today’s game would suggest.

Also, we’re historically awful on Boxing Day, so am writing off the Swansea game now.

I think that the season will be defined by a combination of the Bruce games AND the batch of points dropped recently under Smith.

In fairness, top 2 was always going to be an uphill task after the Bruce calamities against Reading, Ipswich, Preston and Blackburn.  However, the late goals conceded against Leeds, Forest & Albion have cost us another 5 points that have left us out of the battle for top 2 and scrapping to make up ground with the top 6.

Smith is very attack minded - To the detriment of the defence (which is woeful and needs protecting).  it is the sacrifice we must make in the short term until it can be addressed in January and most likely further in the summer.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AndyB6 on December 24, 2018, 01:22:59 AM
Do we have any idea about whether Dean Smith has a plan B?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy65 on December 24, 2018, 01:42:40 AM
Quote from: Richard E on December 23, 2018, 08:56:47 PM
Quote from: brian green on December 23, 2018, 08:54:28 PM
I cannot believe how Hogan continues to be credited with skills he does not have.  My assumption is the time honoured deceit that he cost a mountain of money so he must be good.

Or the habit of rating players inversely proportionately to the amount of time they actually spend in the team.

As I have said on here before Hogan only had 6 months of decent football in his whole career. He was often injured before. We overpaid for a limited player with no prior track record. Junk
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Neil Hawkes on December 24, 2018, 02:04:01 AM
When you're baking a cake you can either use what's in the cupboard, or buy your own ingredients. The cake would be very different with these two options.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on December 24, 2018, 07:05:04 AM
Quote from: Ad@m on December 23, 2018, 07:18:29 PM
Quote from: Ads on December 23, 2018, 06:29:01 PM
Hourihane is a mirage off the ball. Badly outclassed by some pretty ordinary midfielders like Joe Allen and the Leeds lot.



Fucking hell Ads, you're normally the happy clapper around here. Who's pissed on your chips tonight?

Leeds are the best team offensively we've seen at Villa Park this season so describing then as pretty ordinary is rather silly.

Likewise, Joe Allen, ordinary?! Someone who two years ago, reached the UEFA Cup final, the League Cup final, the semi-final of the Euros and got selected in the Euros team of the tournament?!

Go home Ads, you're drunk!

We've just been battered on our own patch by a side chock full of utter nobodies, half of which appear to be 12 years old, who were injury ravaged. There were absolutely no positives. An utterly lamentable performance, where the manager was badly exposed.

That midfield was a disgrace against Stoke and it should be no surprise to anybody that Leeds played between the lines at will.

We're self evidently a 1 man team.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on December 24, 2018, 07:13:53 AM
That is a perfect summary of my feelings too.  Especially the sentence about absolutely no positives, a lamentable performance and the manager being badly exposed.  That was the defining game of the season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Matt Collins on December 24, 2018, 07:42:48 AM
God it doesn't take much for the doom sayers to come out does it

Leeds are top of the league you know? Just won their 6th game on the bounce. Definitely the best team we've played this year
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on December 24, 2018, 07:45:22 AM
I am not a doom sayer.  I could not have survived 75 years on the Holte as a doom sayer.  I am a realist.  I call it how I see it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on December 24, 2018, 07:49:17 AM
Dean has had an awful lot of praise so far, I don’t see a problem in pointing out where he has been thoroughly bested by a coach with fewer resources.

Swings and roundabouts.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on December 24, 2018, 07:56:18 AM
I'm really disappointed he hasn't rolled the dice with young players.

JDH and O'Hare at the top and bottom of a midfield with McGinn, we'd Have been no worse off these last two games and may have seen significantly more energy and movement than either the utterly woeful Hourihane and Whelan could ever offer.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on December 24, 2018, 07:57:45 AM
I would rather make an assessment of our Great Barr, Aston Villa supporting, Holte End Head Coach when he's had the chance to wheel and deal in the transfer market.  He's been dealt a very dodgy hand and has improved it. Sadly, the decision making in our defence is absolutely woeful and we all know that you cannot polish a turd.  Many of the other players, with their big salaries, even bigger egos just simply have not worked out and need to go. Build a team.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on December 24, 2018, 08:02:00 AM
How come all you lot can whinge like fuck, yet when I'm miffed it's like Rourkes Drift in the defence of the subject.

Yes Smith is one of us, so in using local, straight to the point language what we are done used to in these parts, its fair to say Smith has been shite the past two games.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villafirst on December 24, 2018, 08:10:25 AM
Smith has had to make do with an unbalanced team from the word go. Let's see what happens when he's had a couple of transfer windows to bring players in of his own choice.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on December 24, 2018, 08:11:12 AM
It still doesn't absolve him of criticism. He's deserving of plenty for yesterday.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on December 24, 2018, 08:21:22 AM
Ads, you're right to question but without the ability to alter his squad and the injury problems, his options to change shape etc are hampered.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on December 24, 2018, 08:24:07 AM
With the defence I agree. There's only so many ways to shape the mesh of imbalanced rubbish.

But midfield is where we do have more options and I think he's missed a trick. I'm hopeful.of a Swansea shake up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on December 24, 2018, 08:26:40 AM
It is badly needed both in personnel and attitude.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on December 24, 2018, 08:55:32 AM
Just out of interest Brian would you have taken a punt on Bielsa once we's lost the play-off final?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dave P on December 24, 2018, 09:18:53 AM
Quote from: brian green on December 23, 2018, 09:03:48 PM
Yes, of course, the corollary of Woodhall's Theorem that states the reputation of a player is in inverse proportion to the time spent playing.   

I call it the Rudy Gestede theory. He was a world beater out the team and a donkey in it!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dave P on December 24, 2018, 09:21:22 AM
Quote from: Ads on December 24, 2018, 07:56:18 AM
I'm really disappointed he hasn't rolled the dice with young players.

JDH and O'Hare at the top and bottom of a midfield with McGinn, we'd Have been no worse off these last two games and may have seen significantly more energy and movement than either the utterly woeful Hourihane and Whelan could ever offer.

I think we could / should see that now. We have “easier” fixtures coming up and a cup tie where he may rotate. A few established players couldn’t complain about getting dropped.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on December 24, 2018, 09:22:06 AM
The only question from how high do we drop them.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 24, 2018, 09:31:47 AM
It was noticeable yesterday in his after match comments that most of the usual technical Dean Smithisms about overloads and what not were missing.  He looked shell-shocked, and I hope he realises that he got it badly wrong.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Matt Collins on December 24, 2018, 09:35:07 AM
Perhaps the kids aren't playing because they don't look ready?

It's all very well seasoned under 23 watchers stating that ohare is as good as grealish. But as mitch Clark said recently. You've got to play competitive football to test yourself. Under 23 football is like a practice match. It's as much about shape as anything. And by the way we concede loads of goals at that level too so it would be a huge leap for a defender in particular

Maybe we'll see a couple in the fa Cup game

But I still think we should loan them out.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 24, 2018, 09:51:54 AM
Quote from: Matt Collins on December 24, 2018, 09:35:07 AM
Perhaps the kids aren't playing because they don't look ready?

It's all very well seasoned under 23 watchers stating that ohare is as good as grealish. But as mitch Clark said recently. You've got to play competitive football to test yourself. Under 23 football is like a practice match. It's as much about shape as anything. And by the way we concede loads of goals at that level too so it would be a huge leap for a defender in particular

Maybe we'll see a couple in the fa Cup game

But I still think we should loan them out.

I doubt very much that O'Hare is as good as Grealish.  But coming on as a sub as a fresh pair of legs, with a little bit of skill?  It worked for Leeds yesterday, and I don't see anybody claiming their kids are world beaters.  That Jack Clarke will be feeling on top of the world today, which must be just as useful as scrapping away on loan at Peterborough or somewhere.  In any case, when we're bringing on Hogan to do nothing as a sub, the argument as to how good the kids are becomes somewhat redundant.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chinchilla Bathhouse on December 24, 2018, 10:05:56 AM
Quote from: Risso on December 24, 2018, 09:51:54 AM
Quote from: Matt Collins on December 24, 2018, 09:35:07 AM
Perhaps the kids aren't playing because they don't look ready?

It's all very well seasoned under 23 watchers stating that ohare is as good as grealish. But as mitch Clark said recently. You've got to play competitive football to test yourself. Under 23 football is like a practice match. It's as much about shape as anything. And by the way we concede loads of goals at that level too so it would be a huge leap for a defender in particular

Maybe we'll see a couple in the fa Cup game

But I still think we should loan them out.

I doubt very much that O'Hare is as good as Grealish.  But coming on as a sub as a fresh pair of legs, with a little bit of skill?  It worked for Leeds yesterday, and I don't see anybody claiming their kids are world beaters.  That Jack Clarke will be feeling on top of the world today, which must be just as useful as scrapping away on loan at Peterborough or somewhere. In any case, when we're bringing on Hogan to do nothing as a sub, the argument as to how good the kids are becomes somewhat redundant.

That's my view as well. We don't know if the kids are good enough, but we do know that Hogan isn't, so why not take a chance? When the same players make the same mistakes over and over again it's hardly a risk to try someone different. We might already have players who can do a better job, which would save us from having to buy more. If they can't get their chance now, when?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 24, 2018, 10:12:37 AM
Just looked at the games that Clarke has played for Leeds. He's been chucked on at half time a few times now.  Bielsa doesn't seem scared to really mix things up when they're not working.  Even if he does sit on a blue bucket in the technical area.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on December 24, 2018, 10:20:52 AM
Yesterday may well serve us better in the long run, as it showed that certain players aren't up to it and need to be fucked off.

Better to know that as we approach the window rather than after it.

And it's all my fault by the way, I told my nephew how much I rate Elmohamedy about 2 minutes before he stood by and let the lad through to score their first.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brassneck on December 24, 2018, 10:28:01 AM
Quote from: LeeB on December 24, 2018, 10:20:52 AM
Yesterday may well serve us better in the long run, as it showed that certain players aren't up to it and need to be fucked off.

Better to know that as we approach the window rather than after it.

And it's all my fault by the way, I told my nephew how much I rate Elmohamedy about 2 minutes before he stood by and let the lad through to score their first.

I'm slightly easier today.

If we'd have lost that 2-0, nobody could really have complained.  It was the way we lost that hurts.  1 point in the grand scheme of things isn't the end of the world but these last 3 games have virtually ended hopes of automatic promotion.

I too have been a supporter of Elmo but he could also be questioned for one of Stoke's goals last week.  The way Leeds play left him exposed 1 on 1 all game and the ploy inadvertently worked at the death.  Elmo could quite easily left the ball or at worst, headed it on for a corner.  He must have been convinced that someone was behind him.

I want an entire new back 4.  Chester possibly deserves a crack on the right and Elmo possibly deserves a crack at right back but I wouldn't be sorry to see all 4 replaced (which is what would have to happen if we went up).
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on December 24, 2018, 10:38:01 AM
I wouldn’t worry too much.  Elmo, Hogan and ‘Chessie’ will all be signing for Nans Hairs Sheffield Wednesday soon.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on December 24, 2018, 10:58:01 AM
Every team has players who are not good enough for what the manager wants
you can carry one or two and get by

but when you have Elmo, Whelan, BB, Houraine, Taylor, Lansbury, Hogan most of them playing regularly you’ve got no chance of retaining the ball or dominating the midfield area without Grealish

btw notice the thing they all have in common
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on December 24, 2018, 11:10:06 AM
Quote from: john e on December 24, 2018, 10:58:01 AM
Every team has players who are not good enough for what the manager wants
you can carry one or two and get by

but when you have Elmo, Whelan, BB, Houraine, Taylor, Lansbury, Hogan most of them playing regularly you’ve got no chance of retaining the ball or dominating the midfield area without Grealish

btw notice the thing they all have in common

Come off it john e - only Hourihane and Elmo are regulars in that lot. Whelan's only in the team because Grealish is injured and the others are squad players.

There isn't half some melodramatic shit on here since yesterday's result. We've just lost our first game in two months, despite going through what everyone considers to be about as tough a run as we could have, with a new manager, using someone else's imbalanced squad.

And the loss was against top of the league who looked a class apart from every other team we've seen at Villa Park.

We're seriously short of perspective at the moment. Bruce was quite rightly panned for saying that a loss induced hysteria amongst the fans - the reaction of the last 18 hours isn't exactly disproving that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SheffieldVillain on December 24, 2018, 11:22:26 AM
Quote from: Ad@m on December 24, 2018, 11:10:06 AM
Quote from: john e on December 24, 2018, 10:58:01 AM
Every team has players who are not good enough for what the manager wants
you can carry one or two and get by

but when you have Elmo, Whelan, BB, Houraine, Taylor, Lansbury, Hogan most of them playing regularly you’ve got no chance of retaining the ball or dominating the midfield area without Grealish

btw notice the thing they all have in common

Come off it john e - only Hourihane and Elmo are regulars in that lot. Whelan's only in the team because Grealish is injured and the others are squad players.

There isn't half some melodramatic shit on here since yesterday's result. We've just lost our first game in two months, despite going through what everyone considers to be about as tough a run as we could have, with a new manager, using someone else's imbalanced squad.

And the loss was against top of the league who looked a class apart from every other team we've seen at Villa Park.

We're seriously short of perspective at the moment. Bruce was quite rightly panned for saying that a loss induced hysteria amongst the fans - the reaction of the last 18 hours isn't exactly disproving that.

Yesterday the midfield, which is what John was talking about, was made up of 2 of 3 of those above plus BB as sub. The sub striker option is Hogan. Is it really 'melodramatic shit' to say we can and should bring in players who will improve on Whelan, Hourihane, BB and Hogan? Or for that matter Taylor and Lansbury. They clearly aren't good enough for what the manager wants. (I've given AEH a pass for the moment as I don't think the RB spot is a priority).
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on December 24, 2018, 11:33:48 AM
Elmo's awful at right back and gave away three points! Bree would be better in there.We actually need both a LB and a RB.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on December 24, 2018, 11:35:03 AM
Elphick will probably start for us against QPR so you'll hope Bree may go to right back.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on December 24, 2018, 11:38:06 AM
Quote from: mr underhill on December 24, 2018, 11:33:48 AM
Elmo's awful at right back and gave away three points! Bree would be better in there.We actually need both a LB and a RB.

Indeed. He cost us two points against Stoke as well.

Hopefully Bruce will get the Wednesday gig and will come in to take him off our hands.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on December 24, 2018, 11:39:16 AM
Bruce is doing it the wrong way at Wednesday. They're already FFP embargoed.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on December 24, 2018, 01:11:49 PM
I see Smith has had a bit of criticism for picking up on the Leeds players/fans celebrations after their winner - I would be interested to ask him what his reaction was at Hillsborough when BFR's team came from 0-2 down to win 3-2
In all my years supporting Villa that was one of the most memorable away days - if Smith really is a big fan he would surely recall that day
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on December 24, 2018, 01:16:45 PM
Elmo has rarely let us down since he's been here so I'm not going to get on his back too much. I don't think the defence as a whole covered themselves in too much glory against Leeds.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Richard on December 24, 2018, 01:26:49 PM
One thing I'm sure Smith will do is change the age dynamic of the team - 6 players yesterday aged 29 or over is about 3 too many. And it shows in the closing stages of games.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 24, 2018, 01:35:38 PM
Quote from: Clampy on December 24, 2018, 01:16:45 PM
Elmo has rarely let us down since he's been here so I'm not going to get on his back too much. I don't think the defence as a whole covered themselves in too much glory against Leeds.
I agree he has been a steady if not spectacular player.
Just a little concerned that he has hit that point of noticible decline
It happens to all players over 30 at some point, see Hutton and Whelan.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 24, 2018, 01:43:24 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 24, 2018, 01:35:38 PM
Quote from: Clampy on December 24, 2018, 01:16:45 PM
Elmo has rarely let us down since he's been here so I'm not going to get on his back too much. I don't think the defence as a whole covered themselves in too much glory against Leeds.
I agree he has been a steady if not spectacular player.
Just a little concerned that he has hit that point of noticible decline
It happens to all players over 30 at some point, see Hutton and Whelan.

The defence is just all wrong, as we all know.  All of our decent teams in recentish years have been built on a good defence, and that really must be Smith's priority in January.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VinnieChase84 on December 24, 2018, 01:44:30 PM
Ball playing centre halves and a bit of pace in the full back roles would make us a force
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AndyB6 on December 24, 2018, 02:46:19 PM
We need to do some serious work on our defensive shape.
Other teams seem to be able to thread the ball from their central defenders / deep lying midfielder straight up the middle of the pitch to their central striker when playing us.
Our wingers / wide midfielders do very little to protect the full backs.
Yesterday in the second half Hutton got so narrow he was virtually playing as a third centre back?
Even two simple banks of four when we are not in possession would offer more 'protection' than what we are currently doing.
We are a soft touch.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: stuart445 on December 24, 2018, 03:48:38 PM
Quote from: Ads on December 24, 2018, 08:02:00 AM
How come all you lot can whinge like fuck, yet when I'm miffed it's like Rourkes Drift in the defence of the subject.

Yes Smith is one of us, so in using local, straight to the point language what we are done used to in these parts, its fair to say Smith has been shite the past two games.

Strange isn't it, also whenever Grealish has a bad game the fans go mad at him etc.. But with Hogan those fans will roll out a list of excuses.

The excuses since he got here have been the system was wrong he needs Dean Smiths system to get the best out of him, well he has Dean Smiths system and he's putting in the exact same performances as he was under Bruce.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: stuart445 on December 24, 2018, 03:56:09 PM
Quote from: Brassneck on December 24, 2018, 10:28:01 AM
Quote from: LeeB on December 24, 2018, 10:20:52 AM
Yesterday may well serve us better in the long run, as it showed that certain players aren't up to it and need to be fucked off.

Better to know that as we approach the window rather than after it.

And it's all my fault by the way, I told my nephew how much I rate Elmohamedy about 2 minutes before he stood by and let the lad through to score their first.

I'm slightly easier today.

If we'd have lost that 2-0, nobody could really have complained.  It was the way we lost that hurts.  1 point in the grand scheme of things isn't the end of the world but these last 3 games have virtually ended hopes of automatic promotion.

I too have been a supporter of Elmo but he could also be questioned for one of Stoke's goals last week.  The way Leeds play left him exposed 1 on 1 all game and the ploy inadvertently worked at the death.  Elmo could quite easily left the ball or at worst, headed it on for a corner.  He must have been convinced that someone was behind him.

I want an entire new back 4.  Chester possibly deserves a crack on the right and Elmo possibly deserves a crack at right back but I wouldn't be sorry to see all 4 replaced (which is what would have to happen if we went up).

Or didn't want to head it for a corner because Nyland is hopeless at corners.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on December 24, 2018, 03:57:19 PM
Hogan played well for about six months for Brentford and we got mugged because Bruce was a mug. But here's something to chew over - I may be wrong but by and large our defence last year was the same as this year minus Terry  and Johnstone.  both were dodgy at times and i gave the latter a lot of stick for his piss poor kicking and wayward  distribution. But what wouldn't I give for them to have been playing since August. Even allowing for Terry being another yeas older.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 24, 2018, 03:58:39 PM
Dean Smith isn't immune from blame for not doing more to change the system when we have the lead or with his subs. And the one thing I absolutely lay at his door is his reluctance to use younger players and insist on has beens like Whelan. But I will balance that off against him being at the club a very short time, having to deal with inheriting a disaster of defence compounded by losing his best player followed by at the very last minute his best defender yesterday. None of that can be easy to deal with in a new job. Along with Purslow/Pitarch he's clearly identified once of the key areas of weakness in our GK. He now needs to add 3 or 4 defensive players.

This isn't getting fixed overnight chaps. Bruce fucked us over massively and Smith is learning the job on the fly. He's going to do good things and make mistakes. There will be lots more ups and downs to come.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: stuart445 on December 24, 2018, 04:13:39 PM
Quote from: mr underhill on December 24, 2018, 03:57:19 PM
Hogan played well for about six months for Brentford and we got mugged because Bruce was a mug. But here's something to chew over - I may be wrong but by and large our defence last year was the same as this year minus Terry  and Johnstone.  both were dodgy at times and i gave the latter a lot of stick for his piss poor kicking and wayward  distribution. But what wouldn't I give for them to have been playing since August. Even allowing for Terry being another yeas older.

What I don't understand is we have offered Collins a deal until January why haven't we offered it to Terry instead he could fit in easier than Collins as he knows the players here.

Imo last season that 3rd goal doesn't happen as Elmo would have headed out for a corner because he had confidence that Johnstone would deal with the corner, but its clear they have less confidence in Nyland than we do kicking it out of his hands in the 1st half proved that, Elmo clearly didn't want to head it out for a corner because of how weak Nyland is at dealing with them.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 24, 2018, 04:14:20 PM
Quote from: stuart445 on December 24, 2018, 04:13:39 PM
Quote from: mr underhill on December 24, 2018, 03:57:19 PM
Hogan played well for about six months for Brentford and we got mugged because Bruce was a mug. But here's something to chew over - I may be wrong but by and large our defence last year was the same as this year minus Terry  and Johnstone.  both were dodgy at times and i gave the latter a lot of stick for his piss poor kicking and wayward  distribution. But what wouldn't I give for them to have been playing since August. Even allowing for Terry being another yeas older.

What I don't understand is we have offered Collins a deal until January why haven't we offered it to Terry instead he could fit in easier than Collins as he knows the players here.

Imo last season that 3rd goal doesn't happen as Elmo would have headed out for a corner because he had confidence that Johnstone would deal with the corner, but its clear they have less confidence in Nyland than we do kicking it out of his hands in the 1st half proved that, Elmo clearly didn't want to head it out for a corner because of how weak Nyland is at dealing with them.

Terry chose to retire. That’s the difference.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Matt Collins on December 24, 2018, 05:01:45 PM
I thought whelan was quite good v leeds

He just can't do certain things and I imagine his replacement in the summer will be more like a mceachran type
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 24, 2018, 05:36:07 PM
Quote from: Brassneck on December 24, 2018, 12:47:58 AM
Quote from: hipkiss92 on December 23, 2018, 11:52:47 PM
We’ve had 11 games under Smith and 9 of them have been against teams above us in the league. This season will be defined by the games we blew under Bruce, not the last 6 or 7.

The two teams weve played below us were in Smith’s first two games and we won both with clean sheets.

We’re in a better position with Smith in charge than even today’s game would suggest.

Also, we’re historically awful on Boxing Day, so am writing off the Swansea game now.

I think that the season will be defined by a combination of the Bruce games AND the batch of points dropped recently under Smith.

In fairness, top 2 was always going to be an uphill task after the Bruce calamities against Reading, Ipswich, Preston and Blackburn.  However, the late goals conceded against Leeds, Forest & Albion have cost us another 5 points that have left us out of the battle for top 2 and scrapping to make up ground with the top 6.

Smith is very attack minded - To the detriment of the defence (which is woeful and needs protecting).  it is the sacrifice we must make in the short term until it can be addressed in January and most likely further in the summer.

To challenge for top 2 you need to be bullet proof against bottom 8-9 teams. Look at Norwich and Leeds results recently. I just can't look past all the teams at the bottom we couldn't beat under SB in August and September, not beating Ipswich who had 10 men for 50 minutes ffs. They are rock bottom.

Would be interested to see how our record looks v bottom half teams compared to all those above us.

Edit: All teams in the championship lose games to teams around them. Didn't do Wolves, Cardiff or Fulham any harm when they lost to us last season after all.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 24, 2018, 05:46:36 PM
Quote from: mr underhill on December 24, 2018, 03:57:19 PM
Hogan played well for about six months for Brentford and we got mugged because Bruce was a mug. But here's something to chew over - I may be wrong but by and large our defence last year was the same as this year minus Terry  and Johnstone.  both were dodgy at times and i gave the latter a lot of stick for his piss poor kicking and wayward  distribution. But what wouldn't I give for them to have been playing since August. Even allowing for Terry being another yeas older.

We played much deeper last season and also the FBs had more protection from the wide players.

If fans want the front foot exciting football to continue they have to accept the back 4 will be parked nearer the halfway line and they'll be occasions when our FBs are exposed one v one.

Hopefully bt February we'll have better players in some of those positions but think it's optmistic to think we'll become a clean sheet machine.

Said before but to me this is a league of chaos where teams just assemble 3-4 excellent attacking players and just try to outscore everyone.

When Norwich and WBA are two of the top teams in this league and conceding 2 and 3 regularly it does raise a point.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: stuart445 on December 24, 2018, 09:00:35 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on December 24, 2018, 04:14:20 PM
Quote from: stuart445 on December 24, 2018, 04:13:39 PM
Quote from: mr underhill on December 24, 2018, 03:57:19 PM
Hogan played well for about six months for Brentford and we got mugged because Bruce was a mug. But here's something to chew over - I may be wrong but by and large our defence last year was the same as this year minus Terry  and Johnstone.  both were dodgy at times and i gave the latter a lot of stick for his piss poor kicking and wayward  distribution. But what wouldn't I give for them to have been playing since August. Even allowing for Terry being another yeas older.

What I don't understand is we have offered Collins a deal until January why haven't we offered it to Terry instead he could fit in easier than Collins as he knows the players here.

Imo last season that 3rd goal doesn't happen as Elmo would have headed out for a corner because he had confidence that Johnstone would deal with the corner, but its clear they have less confidence in Nyland than we do kicking it out of his hands in the 1st half proved that, Elmo clearly didn't want to head it out for a corner because of how weak Nyland is at dealing with them.

Terry chose to retire. That’s the difference.

I'm sure we could have persuaded him to come out of retirement until January as surely he can't be enjoying what he's seeing
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 24, 2018, 09:31:44 PM
He’s a coach now. It’s part of his job to fix what he sees as a coach. That’s the challenge now and he’s not going to be able to do as a player or without the club buying new and better players to coach.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Matt Collins on December 24, 2018, 10:14:13 PM
I'm not sure how well a 38 year old Terry would fare in our high pressing style anyway to be honest

He was awful when Chelsea played  a high press under AVB
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on December 24, 2018, 11:43:09 PM
Terry is 38 and hasn't played for six months. I think we need to move on, no matter how desperate we are for defenders.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on December 25, 2018, 12:01:46 AM
Quote from: stuart445 on December 24, 2018, 03:56:09 PM
Quote from: Brassneck on December 24, 2018, 10:28:01 AM
Quote from: LeeB on December 24, 2018, 10:20:52 AM
Yesterday may well serve us better in the long run, as it showed that certain players aren't up to it and need to be fucked off.

Better to know that as we approach the window rather than after it.

And it's all my fault by the way, I told my nephew how much I rate Elmohamedy about 2 minutes before he stood by and let the lad through to score their first.

I'm slightly easier today.

If we'd have lost that 2-0, nobody could really have complained.  It was the way we lost that hurts.  1 point in the grand scheme of things isn't the end of the world but these last 3 games have virtually ended hopes of automatic promotion.

I too have been a supporter of Elmo but he could also be questioned for one of Stoke's goals last week.  The way Leeds play left him exposed 1 on 1 all game and the ploy inadvertently worked at the death.  Elmo could quite easily left the ball or at worst, headed it on for a corner.  He must have been convinced that someone was behind him.

I want an entire new back 4.  Chester possibly deserves a crack on the right and Elmo possibly deserves a crack at right back but I wouldn't be sorry to see all 4 replaced (which is what would have to happen if we went up).

Or didn't want to head it for a corner because Nyland is hopeless at corners.
He had plenty of time he was in loads of space. He could of cushioned a header back to the keeper. Literally anything would have been better than what he did. He's got to go.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on December 25, 2018, 12:13:25 AM
I'm completely open to the idea that Hogan is rubbish,  but to suggest that he's had a fair crack of the whip under DS seems harsh to me.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Pvb1968 on December 25, 2018, 07:09:18 AM
There has not been a game yet since Dean smiths arrival that we have not competed in and we easily could have taken points from all of them. At full strength we are a match for anyone and Dean smith has yet to bring players in that he wants. We all know where the problem lies but inheriting the poorest keeper I have ever seen in a villa shirt along with Hutton, whelan and Elhamdy is not Dean smiths fault. If we can bring in the players he wants and maybe recall mitch Clark and Tommy elphick we can make the play offs.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on December 25, 2018, 07:18:07 AM
Also, when we play a midfield of Whelan and Houlihane, they just don’t have the legs to offer protection if we lose the ball with the full backs committed forward.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KRS on December 25, 2018, 05:46:07 PM
Quote from: Pvb1968 on December 25, 2018, 07:09:18 AM
We all know where the problem lies but inheriting the poorest keeper I have ever seen in a villa shirt along with Hutton, whelan and Elhamdy is not Dean smiths fault.
When you consider the amount of money spent since we got relegated, it really is shocking when you see that written down in black and white...even more painful when you think about the list of other wasters stealing a living as “footballers” at the club.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 26, 2018, 08:04:52 PM
Post-match interview https://twitter.com/AVFCOfficial/status/1077981902311698432
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 29, 2018, 05:44:41 PM
I acknowledge Jack’s injury is a big blow, but the last three games we’ve been pretty average. Dean needs to think about threshening things up. Also Whelan consistenly slows our game down, it’s counter intuitive to the style Dean likes to play, so I find it baffling he’s started so many games recently.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on December 29, 2018, 05:51:17 PM
He's got selection wrong on 4 occasions; the last 4 games.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 29, 2018, 05:55:00 PM
Looking at our bench the last few games we don't have that many options to freshen it up. Kod and Albert are probably the only 2 that are fully match fit.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on December 29, 2018, 05:56:35 PM
I'm not sure if Thor has been fit enough to start, but him, Kodjia, Albert and Elphick would all be coming in for me against QPR.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KRS on December 29, 2018, 05:58:44 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on December 26, 2018, 08:04:52 PM
Post-match interview https://twitter.com/AVFCOfficial/status/1077981902311698432
That’s for the Swansea game.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: four fornicholl on December 29, 2018, 06:01:40 PM
Quote from: KRS on December 29, 2018, 05:58:44 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on December 26, 2018, 08:04:52 PM
Post-match interview https://twitter.com/AVFCOfficial/status/1077981902311698432
That’s for the Swansea game.
I made that mistake too, check the date. :-[ ;D >:(
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 29, 2018, 06:02:09 PM
This is the Preston game, the other one was posted on the 26th.

https://twitter.com/AVFCOfficial/status/1079072569846886400
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: robleflaneur on December 29, 2018, 06:10:02 PM
Quote from: Ads on December 29, 2018, 05:51:17 PM
He's got selection wrong on 4 occasions; the last 4 games.
Bit harsh as he's been hamstrung by injuries.Not much option but to play the 3 right backs in defence and Whelan in midfield.And can't count Swansea as a wrong team selection,we won which is the only thing that matters.
I think we'll catch Narrwich ,their slide is starting,leaked 7 goals in the last 2 home games.The Baggies are my main concern.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 29, 2018, 06:13:20 PM
I don’t know, the Kodjia one is really bizarre. Excellent against Leeds, subbed we get noticeably worse and lose and then he hasn’t started since.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on December 29, 2018, 06:16:41 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on December 29, 2018, 06:13:20 PM
I don’t know, the Kodjia one is really bizarre. Excellent against Leeds, subbed we get noticeably worse and lose and then he hasn’t started since.

Perhaps Smith is fed up of telling him to select the right option instead of being a greedy twat.  Not a team player.  That said, we have far too many players who are inconsistent and need to play as a team rather than for themselves.

In fact, I'm fairly sure that Smith sees a few of them as not being good enough to push the club further up the table, including BB, Hourihane and others.  He will want to bring in players who he's able to work with, who will be more consistent, more energetic and reliable. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 29, 2018, 06:21:15 PM
I think Kodija has pissed off Smith and he gave him a chance to get back in the team and he cost the first goal against Leeds by not tracking back.
This probably means he will be let go in January.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OCD on December 29, 2018, 06:22:37 PM
I've seen Smith say that he wants to have 2 players competing for each position. The fact that he keeps playing the same side, or near enough, says a lot about what he thinks of the squad given the comment. I think he needs at least a couple of transfer windows to get something near what he wants. If we go on a run that gets us into the playoffs, great but I think next season is when we should be looking to make a real title push.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 29, 2018, 06:24:48 PM
Well given that it all fell apart after Kodjia came off in that game it wasn’t a great decision. He might not have tracked back, but it bloody stopped them overloading on that flank. As soon as he went off they slaughtered us down there.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villafirst on December 29, 2018, 06:28:36 PM
Whelan is too old to be playing 3 games in six days. Deano should've rotated more. Lucky to get away with it today. Although Bjarnason's miss was criminal.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 29, 2018, 06:29:16 PM
I think it says more about how many fit players we have at present. It's some state of affairs that for all the money we've spent since relegation that on our bench we have a kid as our only fit defender and someone coming back from injury as our only CM.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 29, 2018, 06:30:38 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on December 29, 2018, 06:24:48 PM
Well given that it all fell apart after Kodjia came off in that game it wasn’t a great decision. He might not have tracked back, but it bloody stopped them overloading on that flank. As soon as he went off they slaughtered us down there.
Just trying to explain why he is out of favour again.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: DB on December 29, 2018, 07:26:47 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 29, 2018, 06:30:38 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on December 29, 2018, 06:24:48 PM
Well given that it all fell apart after Kodjia came off in that game it wasn’t a great decision. He might not have tracked back, but it bloody stopped them overloading on that flank. As soon as he went off they slaughtered us down there.
Just trying to explain why he is out of favour again.

Maybe he took a knock vs Leeds as is not fit enough to start.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 29, 2018, 07:54:01 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on December 29, 2018, 06:29:16 PM
I think it says more about how many fit players we have at present. It's some state of affairs that for all the money we've spent since relegation that on our bench we have a kid as our only fit defender and someone coming back from injury as our only CM.

A state of affairs solely down to that ****** Bruce.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on December 29, 2018, 08:06:40 PM
but a cnut who got us to the play off final.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VinnieChase84 on December 29, 2018, 08:10:42 PM
5 points off play offs with performances that show what we can do, after Bruce effectively handicapped us with the first 11 games.
63 points up for grabs starting Tuesday. Most of the top sides have to come to VP.
We’ve become very resilient away from home too which has always been an issue for us over the last 2 seasons. It’s in our hands!

Recruit well this month as quick as possible and push on.it will be blindingly obvious to Dean and his team what we lack. UTV
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on December 29, 2018, 09:16:55 PM
Quote from: mr underhill on December 29, 2018, 08:06:40 PM
but a cnut who got us to the play off final.

You are Alex Bruce and I claim my £5!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on December 29, 2018, 09:39:06 PM
Quote from: mr underhill on December 29, 2018, 08:06:40 PM
but a cnut who got us to the play off final.

Is that a measure of success or are you actually taking the piss?  We might as well have not bothered, the way we were set up that day.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on December 29, 2018, 09:42:00 PM
Wahoo we get turned over by Fulham with ease at Wembley. Put it in the trophy cabinet with the ash tray. No hang on, we're not Small fucking Heath, so really, who gives a good fuck?

We lost, he should have been sacked.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VinnieChase84 on December 29, 2018, 10:03:52 PM
Quote from: Ads on December 29, 2018, 09:42:00 PM
Wahoo we get turned over by Fulham with ease at Wembley. Put it in the trophy cabinet with the ash tray. No hang on, we're not Small fucking Heath, so really, who gives a good fuck?

We lost, he should have been sacked.

THIS. It’s the number one thing that used to boil my piss about Bruce, him using that day as a symbol of success when it’s abject failure in reality
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on December 29, 2018, 10:19:58 PM
couldn’t stand Bruce but even he got us into the play offs even if it took nearly two seasons
I still fully expect Smith to do it in his first

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on December 30, 2018, 07:28:54 AM
it was an ironic comment btw.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: four fornicholl on December 30, 2018, 06:25:33 PM
He's started looking old already, I hope to god that this job isn't a step to far, there's an awful lot of expectation on his shoulders. Is he the new messiah? I have a nagging doubt it's going to be all too much for him.
Obviously I hope I'm wrong.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: DB on December 30, 2018, 06:39:10 PM
Quote from: four fornicholl on December 30, 2018, 06:25:33 PM
He's started looking old already, I hope to god that this job isn't a step to far, there's an awful lot of expectation on his shoulders. Is he the new messiah? I have a nagging doubt it's going to be all too much for him.
Obviously I hope I'm wrong.

He has only been in the job 2mins with a squad inherited from Bruce. He needs time and to shape the squad, starting with the defence. A keeper has already been brought in and I am sure defenders will be next. Last few weeks has seen our best player out and best central defender out.
Against Derby and Boro we have seen what he can get the team to do, fingers crossed he can do it consistently with a decent window and Grealish back (whenever that is).
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brassneck on December 30, 2018, 06:58:57 PM
Quote from: mr underhill on December 29, 2018, 08:06:40 PM
but a cnut who got us to the play off final.

Getting us to the play off final is not an achievement, it was a minimum, given the players he had at his disposal.  The fact that we never really competed for top 2 all season is a bigger reflection on Bruce than any desperate claims that play offs was a success.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KRS on December 30, 2018, 07:15:10 PM
Well at least we got another day out at Wembley...always enjoyable but ruined by the game.

If Dean manages to get us there, then I'd like to think that the game and end result would add to the day rather than ruin it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Pvb1968 on December 30, 2018, 09:11:40 PM
Sit back and enjoy the ride, I'm chuffed he's in charge unlike that fat faced chancer or that cockney barrow boy who was gone in a flash.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on December 30, 2018, 09:33:58 PM
The real positive is that we can build with Smith
He has clear ideas , loyal and a true one .

Cynically he's part employed as he'll get a heck of a long time with fan support but he's also a manager who wants to get better and is very encouraging and positive.

The support he has is actually good in terms of long term goals and both stability anf building club.

There is a conflict to an extent though because the sooner we can be promoted the villa can grow the brand and the club on a gloval level.

Championship level football is not what expected by all of us , not how this great club is perceived and the great thing is Smith knows the size and how wonderful this club is.

At this time I wouldn't wish for any other manager .

I just hope we can get things going sooner rather than later and include playing some youngster and own players.

The 3 up front last few matches have been loan players .
Really for the development and growth we need to be playing more our own .

As much as I like Tammy Abraham , loved Snodgrass having our own players develop and come thru should be a strong  next move  as much as bringing in bodies in transfer window.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Pete3206 on December 30, 2018, 09:36:14 PM
Quote from: four fornicholl on December 30, 2018, 06:25:33 PM
He's started looking old already, I hope to god that this job isn't a step to far, there's an awful lot of expectation on his shoulders. Is he the new messiah? I have a nagging doubt it's going to be all too much for him.
Obviously I hope I'm wrong.

You are wrong.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on December 30, 2018, 09:44:06 PM
Jesus. He's managed the toughest run of fixtures possible, with an injury hit dis-jointed squad that have been 'trained' in the art of shite football by a buffoon for two years.

It was never going to be all like Derby/Boro. This season is a complete free pass for him while he sorts us the fuck out. We'll stick make the play off's comfortably.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on December 30, 2018, 11:14:58 PM
Why give a free pass when the whole intention of shifting Bruce out at that time of season was to still have a chance of being promoted. I can't agree but see your point. This season is not 100% his squad or full season.

However Smith himself would love promotion this season and also he not at a stage of experiments too much maybe that comes late season if villa arent there or thereabouts . However with that squad and the  competition teams I also
feel going to be top end

The big chances' conceded are of concern and I would like if he was at least competitive at top end till season end.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: robleflaneur on December 31, 2018, 12:11:12 AM
And it could have been Thierry Henry which I wouldn't have minded.However,he is having a nightmare at Monaco with growing media criticism.They are in the bottom 2 and Henry's ability to relate to less skilful players than him is being questioned.There is a Guardian article but my ability to produce a link matches my talent in spotting the next great manager.
Fortunately for me and Villa,Dean Smith's talents are blindingly obvious.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sickbeggar on December 31, 2018, 12:58:04 AM
He wasn't my 1st choice and it does worry me that my major reservation about him was fan's expectations. I don't remember all this shit when Bruce was in the job for 2 months because he was "Mr Promotion" although he failed time and time again. Give the guy time - the poor fucker hasn't even had a transfer window yet. As someone who thought Bruce stayed at least a season too long, i'm gonna give Smith 2 years which is what bruce got albeit over 3 seasons and if i don't see a progression this time next season THEN i'll start getting on his back.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 31, 2018, 01:00:41 AM
Quote from: four fornicholl on December 30, 2018, 06:25:33 PM
He's started looking old already, I hope to god that this job isn't a step to far, there's an awful lot of expectation on his shoulders. Is he the new messiah? I have a nagging doubt it's going to be all too much for him.
Obviously I hope I'm wrong.

What? You’re thinking too much. His hair is the same colour as it was when he got here. In fact what has been amazing is how comfortably he has taken to the position. He seems perfectly cut out for it. He’s barely lost a game since he arrived. He’ll be brilliant long term.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: old man villa fan on December 31, 2018, 03:55:17 AM
If you were a supporter of another club and looked at the turn around after Smith came in you would have thought they are going to be a danger as the season progresses. We looked to be getting better with every game until injuries took effect on the shape of the team and playing. We have been wafer thin in defence and play making from midfield for so long. Smith has had to get to a fairly settled side and way of playing that all understand before introducing inexperienced players. I would expect him to bring in two left-sided defenders this transfer window.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Matt Collins on December 31, 2018, 07:22:08 AM
We need to get past the QPR game, regroup, get players fit, and get some signings in, and spend sometime on the training ground

Then go again
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on December 31, 2018, 09:04:08 AM
all in time for Saturday!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on December 31, 2018, 09:34:59 AM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on December 31, 2018, 01:00:41 AM
Quote from: four fornicholl on December 30, 2018, 06:25:33 PM
He's started looking old already, I hope to god that this job isn't a step to far, there's an awful lot of expectation on his shoulders. Is he the new messiah? I have a nagging doubt it's going to be all too much for him.
Obviously I hope I'm wrong.

What? You’re thinking too much. His hair is the same colour as it was when he got here. In fact what has been amazing is how comfortably he has taken to the position. He seems perfectly cut out for it. He’s barely lost a game since he arrived. He’ll be brilliant long term.

We've lost three games under him to be precise but yes, long term I think he will be good for us. I think some of his substitutions have been a bit iffy and playing Bolaisie out on the left is a bit wasteful but other than that, I think he's took to the job pretty well.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on December 31, 2018, 10:16:50 AM
What happened to his innovative idea of rotated captains !

I feel it was voted out.
JT would be someone who thinks a captain should be stable and consistent rather than moving it around

I quite liked Smith's idea and the chance for players to know the captain role but seems this hasn't come in maybe because the players think it's something under 14 teams do.

If there were less established players then maybe they would have taken it but I feel they weren't IP for Smith's idea .

As long as they embrace his others ideas think can be progressive as Deano really is a innovative coach and probably too much for some squad after Mr Bruce
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: RussellC on December 31, 2018, 10:38:08 AM
I don't think he was ever going to come-in mid season and start making dramatic changes like rotating the captaincy.

Frankly, I'm amazed that we're even having a discussion about him at this stage, such has been the drastic and immediate improvement he made after taking over from Bruce.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on December 31, 2018, 10:40:14 AM
We've seen how well we can play and without the players to do it defensively or offensively. That's been made doubly hard by the injuries so there's a wee slump, which has been 2 draws, a defeat and a win.

I haven't agreed with the selection choices as I think Whelan is the main reason as he is yesterday's man in every sense.

But I'm confident we'll move away from this and that we'll finish in the Play Offs.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: RussellC on December 31, 2018, 10:48:01 AM
Quote from: Ads on December 31, 2018, 10:40:14 AM
We've seen how well we can play and without the players to do it defensively or offensively. That's been made doubly hard by the injuries so there's a wee slump, which has been 2 draws, a defeat and a win.

I haven't agreed with the selection choices as I think Whelan is the main reason as he is yesterday's man in every sense.

But I'm confident we'll move away from this and that we'll finish in the Play Offs.


I think Smith thinks the same about Whelan - hence all the links to defensive midfield signings - but I'm really not sure what alternatives he's had for the past few games. I don't think that Bjarnason has been fully fit, or we might have seen him start there against Preston.  That said, I would still be concerned that a midfield three of McGinn, Hourihane and BB would be too attack-minded to play together with any great success. We got burned against QPR last season by expecting an easy win, so it wouldn't at all surprise me to see Whelan play the first 60ish minutes tomorrow too.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: stuart445 on December 31, 2018, 10:54:18 AM
Quote from: Pete3206 on December 30, 2018, 09:36:14 PM
Quote from: four fornicholl on December 30, 2018, 06:25:33 PM
He's started looking old already, I hope to god that this job isn't a step to far, there's an awful lot of expectation on his shoulders. Is he the new messiah? I have a nagging doubt it's going to be all too much for him.
Obviously I hope I'm wrong.

You are wrong.

For me it's from tomorrow when the judgement starts as the the excuse of not his players won't be applicable.

January is where he can start to shape the squad the way he wants it so that should be where judgment starts. Already signing a keeper is a positive start so that gives me confidence.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: stuart445 on December 31, 2018, 10:57:24 AM
Quote from: footyskillz on December 30, 2018, 11:14:58 PM
Why give a free pass when the whole intention of shifting Bruce out at that time of season was to still have a chance of being promoted. I can't agree but see your point. This season is not 100% his squad or full season.

However Smith himself would love promotion this season and also he not at a stage of experiments too much maybe that comes late season if villa arent there or thereabouts . However with that squad and the  competition teams I also
feel going to be top end

The big chances' conceded are of concern and I would like if he was at least competitive at top end till season end.

Exactly why give Smith a free pass when no one allowed Bruce a free pass when he was appointed at pretty much the same stage in the season. I'm more than happy Smith is here but let's not have 1 rule for 1 and another rule for someone else let's stay consistent.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sickbeggar on December 31, 2018, 11:17:05 AM
Quote from: stuart445 on December 31, 2018, 10:57:24 AM
Quote from: footyskillz on December 30, 2018, 11:14:58 PM
Why give a free pass when the whole intention of shifting Bruce out at that time of season was to still have a chance of being promoted. I can't agree but see your point. This season is not 100% his squad or full season.

However Smith himself would love promotion this season and also he not at a stage of experiments too much maybe that comes late season if villa arent there or thereabouts . However with that squad and the  competition teams I also
feel going to be top end

The big chances' conceded are of concern and I would like if he was at least competitive at top end till season end.

Exactly why give Smith a free pass when no one allowed Bruce a free pass when he was appointed at pretty much the same stage in the season. I'm more than happy Smith is here but let's not have 1 rule for 1 and another rule for someone else let's stay consistent.


The difference is Bruce inherited a squad that had a lot of money spent on it by RDM, as well as the majority of the squad that came down. Smith can't even field a proper back 4

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: RussellC on December 31, 2018, 11:18:46 AM
Quote from: stuart445 on December 31, 2018, 10:54:18 AM
Quote from: Pete3206 on December 30, 2018, 09:36:14 PM
Quote from: four fornicholl on December 30, 2018, 06:25:33 PM
He's started looking old already, I hope to god that this job isn't a step to far, there's an awful lot of expectation on his shoulders. Is he the new messiah? I have a nagging doubt it's going to be all too much for him.
Obviously I hope I'm wrong.

You are wrong.

For me it's from tomorrow when the judgement starts as the the excuse of not his players won't be applicable.

January is where he can start to shape the squad the way he wants it so that should be where judgment starts. Already signing a keeper is a positive start so that gives me confidence.

Which of his signings are playing tomorrow then?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on December 31, 2018, 12:27:42 PM
Quote from: RussellC on December 31, 2018, 10:38:08 AM
I don't think he was ever going to come-in mid season and start making dramatic changes like rotating the captaincy.

Frankly, I'm amazed that we're even having a discussion about him at this stage, such has been the drastic and immediate improvement he made after taking over from Bruce.

Head coaches can come in and do what they like to stamp authority it's just that he made a nosie or reporting in media of his ideas to captain rotation and it hasn't materialized
Been dropping points but from winning or positive positions

Ok we need time and give his fairness however having made an impact football wise we cant afford it to slip now.

Just frustrating that's all.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on December 31, 2018, 12:31:05 PM
Bizarre. Who cares whose captain? You need leaders everywhere which was likely what he was alluding to.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: four fornicholl on December 31, 2018, 12:34:32 PM
Presser on official site from 1pm.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on December 31, 2018, 12:35:40 PM
Quote from: RussellC on December 31, 2018, 11:18:46 AM
Quote from: stuart445 on December 31, 2018, 10:54:18 AM
Quote from: Pete3206 on December 30, 2018, 09:36:14 PM
Quote from: four fornicholl on December 30, 2018, 06:25:33 PM
He's started looking old already, I hope to god that this job isn't a step to far, there's an awful lot of expectation on his shoulders. Is he the new messiah? I have a nagging doubt it's going to be all too much for him.
Obviously I hope I'm wrong.

You are wrong.

For me it's from tomorrow when the judgement starts as the the excuse of not his players won't be applicable.

January is where he can start to shape the squad the way he wants it so that should be where judgment starts. Already signing a keeper is a positive start so that gives me confidence.

Which of his signings are playing tomorrow then?

How much are they ever gonna be his signings anyway?

He's a head coach

The Kalinic was scouted before and someone who was on radar nothing to do with Smith.

Elphick ?! Was that his decision or JT or club to bring him back ?

Basically unless they are Brentford players coming in could well be targets scouted from a well worn list .

The players identify have to fit his footballing philosophy but will this happen now or in summer .

The other elephant in the room is Smith will be loved by some whatever he does because he's villa and because he's not Bruce

That's a dangerous call and game.

Let's be fair and call it how it is.

Dropped points and some tactics , defending and subs have been underwhelming.

Deano is on the right track and think will win more than he loses but he's somewhat naive in his front foot , pressing game .

I respect he has a set system but with the players he could be flexible to play more than one central striker.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on December 31, 2018, 12:37:26 PM
You're blaming Smith for an awful defence made weaker? After a run whereby we've only lost 1?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on December 31, 2018, 12:52:22 PM
Quote from: Ads on December 31, 2018, 12:31:05 PM
Bizarre. Who cares whose captain? You need leaders everywhere which was likely what he was alluding to.

https://www.brentfordfc.com/news/2018/august/dean-on-captaincy/

Actually he cared . It's not bizarre bloody good idea and  not just text book management and morale speak
He liked to give everyone at Brentford a taste of the leadership.
I post a link check out what he says and he had a perfect opportunity to come in and do the same with his leadership idea at Villa.

At brentford his vision was to create an environment of leaders rather than followers.

I prefer if he sticks to his ideas all the way like he does with his one central striker beliefs.

If you watch this then we can all decide and wonder as to why he hasn't implemented his idea of captain rotation and creating a collective responsibility .

It would have been really good to bring that method in and give everyone an idea of inclusion.

Maybe  he not being allowed to implement his ideas or he some reason changed his beliefs ?

Actually disappointed that he has nt followed through with this as he seems genuine but it's like politician speak when I watch this .

He even name checks JT as captain of seasons past and need for more leaders in the game

Banging on about collective responsibility

" Everyone's seems to be searching for leaders in the game ..."

Bielsa would  stick to his methods,.

Come on deano have the gumption to enforfe your collective responsibility ideas
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 31, 2018, 12:55:34 PM
Comparing Smith at this stage with Bruce is nonsense.
Bruce only got stick and from a few when it became obvious he would not make the play offs in his first season.
I think Smith has made some errors but he is operating under some severe limitations thanks to injuries and Bruce having lost the plot.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on December 31, 2018, 01:01:46 PM
Quote from: Ads on December 31, 2018, 12:37:26 PM
You're blaming Smith for an awful defence made weaker? After a run whereby we've only lost 1?

He not beyond constructive criticism for me.
Credit where due but also all for critical analysis of how losing position are occuring.

What I say is bizarre how it's not seemed appropriate to just state facts which occurred and no critical comment is allowed.
That not really fair.
Major pluses have occurred but without some causes for concern

Seeing out game and being the team that drops most points is one of them .
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on December 31, 2018, 01:04:22 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 31, 2018, 12:55:34 PM
Comparing Smith at this stage with Bruce is nonsense.
Bruce only got stick and from a few when it became obvious he would not make the play offs in his first season.
I think Smith has made some errors but he is operating under some severe limitations thanks to injuries and Bruce having lost the plot.

Pretty much with that !
New year wishes to you
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: old man villa fan on December 31, 2018, 01:16:30 PM
People critical of the manager because we haven't won every game. If the players were good enough to win every game, Bruce would probably still be in the job and we would be mid-table.

The good thing is that we have never looked out of a game. I think there is a harsh view by some on disappointment of not winning games we could have.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on December 31, 2018, 01:36:20 PM
Quote from: footyskillz on December 31, 2018, 01:01:46 PM
Quote from: Ads on December 31, 2018, 12:37:26 PM
You're blaming Smith for an awful defence made weaker? After a run whereby we've only lost 1?

He not beyond constructive criticism for me.
Credit where due but also all for critical analysis of how losing position are occuring.

What I say is bizarre how it's not seemed appropriate to just state facts which occurred and no critical comment is allowed.
That not really fair.
Major pluses have occurred but without some causes for concern

Seeing out game and being the team that drops most points is one of them .

Stop talking out your hat. Plenty on here criticise him, myself included. I just cannot see why you're falling out of your tree because in his 13 or 14 games he hasn't taken the armband off Chester. Or that you cannot see that having 3 right backs, an unfit right footed centre half, with his injury, in poor form and on the wrong side, in front of a suspect keeper, isn't the easiest situation to manage.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on December 31, 2018, 01:50:33 PM
He's a head coach and it's constructive criticism.

It's not about haven't won every match.

It's about seeing how can improve and not drop as many points from winning position.

It's about obsevering and debating the pattern of Smith coaching that saw Brentford and villa lose winning position and or draw matches.

It's fair enough to mention this and actually healthy too.

I not that naive to think football teams won't win every game but that isn't my debate or point.

It's also noted that Smith was a vocal advocate of collective responsibility and having leaders not followers.

I like to see him do this at Villa and am fair enough in proving evidence to suggest he's someone who has said that's how he sees football captaincy yet he has given no explanation to why he hasn't implemented this idea .

Anyway it's good that their is such positivity but having frustratingly seen wolves beat spurs 3-1 at Wembley and also beat Chelsea and see that development occur in a short period I can't help being aggrieved Villa be in such a position.

I see Smith like Wilder at sheff united but at a club with a major reputation , expectation and budget.

The great thing is we can build and he will have his way of playing and hopefully developing both squad and his own coaching .

The concern is we are now settling and being content and the long game is being played .
It's not just me but speaking for me I only known premier league and villa being a top club.

I'm of a generation ,and I believe this is a general society, as much as it's the current and now comon football desire that near instant success and gratification is wanted , expected and demanded.

If success isn't now being pertained then entertainment is expected which equals goals and attacking foot ball.

I think we ll see a continuous move towards attacking and goals in football. The idea of the old dinsouar manager mainly being shifted out. Mourinho looks way past what man united and football consumers want these days

The supreme beauty of Smith appointment is he ticks every nox going in current climate of what's wanted
Being a villa man makes it sweeter and he will get all the time in the world.

I guess I just want villa to be the best in England , Europe and the world and want to be up there and not in championship game

I may now have to settle for attacking football with lots of goals in every match .

I see football being like this anyway so I rather sets sights higher. As expecting entertaining matches with goals


Football has changed and it's an entertainment  as that's what most fans want and new consumers and generations !

In 2019  VAR will bring more penalties to the football party and clear up incident like those hand balls and the incompetent refs.

 But that's premier league that's where we all want to be

Happy new year and up the villa.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 31, 2018, 01:52:36 PM
Quote from: footyskillz on December 31, 2018, 01:04:22 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 31, 2018, 12:55:34 PM
Comparing Smith at this stage with Bruce is nonsense.
Bruce only got stick and from a few when it became obvious he would not make the play offs in his first season.
I think Smith has made some errors but he is operating under some severe limitations thanks to injuries and Bruce having lost the plot.

Pretty much with that !
New year wishes to you
And to you Mr Skills.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on December 31, 2018, 02:04:30 PM
Quote from: Ads on December 31, 2018, 01:36:20 PM
Quote from: footyskillz on December 31, 2018, 01:01:46 PM
Quote from: Ads on December 31, 2018, 12:37:26 PM
You're blaming Smith for an awful defence made weaker? After a run whereby we've only lost 1?

He not beyond constructive criticism for me.
Credit where due but also all for critical analysis of how losing position are occuring.

What I say is bizarre how it's not seemed appropriate to just state facts which occurred and no critical comment is allowed.
That not really fair.
Major pluses have occurred but without some causes for concern

Seeing out game and being the team that drops most points is one of them .

Stop talking out your hat. Plenty on here criticise him, myself included. I just cannot see why you're falling out of your tree because in his 13 or 14 games he hasn't taken the armband off Chester. Or that you cannot see that having 3 right backs, an unfit right footed centre half, with his injury, in poor form and on the wrong side, in front of a suspect keeper, isn't the easiest situation to manage.

Adsy baby !
It's more complex than only having chester as capatin.

I have an issue when someone (Dean Smith) openly talks and advocates an idea and vision, In this case captaincy,  and doesn't implement said idea.

The paradox is that's weak leadership .
Lose respect

I don't know story at Villa that's why I opened it as debate.

Because maybe the players weren't liking Idea or JT or someone .

However as head coach and how he has excellently articlulated his ideas on collective responsibility then it would have been super great if he gave Grealish, Mcginn and others a captaincy match.

I can't be fairer than saying that as that what smith believes - collective responsibility .

Happy new year and I'm done talking Smith . Enjoy yourself this eve and positive for tomorrow.

I respect you ads ! Enjoyed majority of your posts and comments 2018 so continue 2019 we may differ with depth of views or analysis but I hope made clear I disappointed hearing Smith say he likes creating leaders not followers and it never materialized at Villa.

For me I would be disappointed in anyone who makes claims , progressive , inspiring or otherwise and doesn't see it thru.
That's me. That's not you in this situation I get it.
(Helps make me think too how others see things )

Up the villa .
I'm done for 18 see you all next year !!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dave P on December 31, 2018, 02:04:54 PM
What Smith has done with this squad is fantastic. What he can do with his own squad really excites me. His first acts of the transfer window is to sign a top keeper and recall Elphick which is exactly what we needed to do early.

I said after a few games of him being in charge was if we don’t go up this season, we’ll go up next season with 100 points.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on December 31, 2018, 02:16:05 PM
"Adsy Baby" Fucking hilarious Skillz!!
Keep posting - you brighten my day
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: stuart445 on December 31, 2018, 02:40:32 PM
Quote from: footyskillz on December 31, 2018, 12:35:40 PM
Quote from: RussellC on December 31, 2018, 11:18:46 AM
Quote from: stuart445 on December 31, 2018, 10:54:18 AM
Quote from: Pete3206 on December 30, 2018, 09:36:14 PM
Quote from: four fornicholl on December 30, 2018, 06:25:33 PM
He's started looking old already, I hope to god that this job isn't a step to far, there's an awful lot of expectation on his shoulders. Is he the new messiah? I have a nagging doubt it's going to be all too much for him.
Obviously I hope I'm wrong.

You are wrong.

For me it's from tomorrow when the judgement starts as the the excuse of not his players won't be applicable.

January is where he can start to shape the squad the way he wants it so that should be where judgment starts. Already signing a keeper is a positive start so that gives me confidence.

Which of his signings are playing tomorrow then?

How much are they ever gonna be his signings anyway?

He's a head coach

The Kalinic was scouted before and someone who was on radar nothing to do with Smith.

Elphick ?! Was that his decision or JT or club to bring him back ?

Basically unless they are Brentford players coming in could well be targets scouted from a well worn list .

The players identify have to fit his footballing philosophy but will this happen now or in summer .

The other elephant in the room is Smith will be loved by some whatever he does because he's villa and because he's not Bruce

That's a dangerous call and game.

Let's be fair and call it how it is.

Dropped points and some tactics , defending and subs have been underwhelming.

Deano is on the right track and think will win more than he loses but he's somewhat naive in his front foot , pressing game .

I respect he has a set system but with the players he could be flexible to play more than one central striker.

You've hit the nail on the head with the because he's one of our own comment. I feel exactly the same some will excuse him of everything because of it. It's kinda like with Scott Hogan some will make excuse after excuse for him I fear the same will happen with Smith. I just hope the difference between Smith and Hogan will be the no need for the excuses
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: stuart445 on December 31, 2018, 02:42:52 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 31, 2018, 12:55:34 PM
Comparing Smith at this stage with Bruce is nonsense.
Bruce only got stick and from a few when it became obvious he would not make the play offs in his first season.
I think Smith has made some errors but he is operating under some severe limitations thanks to injuries and Bruce having lost the plot.

Bruce got stick from some right from the get go, if we don't get to the playoffs under Smith do you think Smith will get the same treatment as Bruce.... I think we both know the answer to that is No he won't.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on December 31, 2018, 02:45:29 PM
He's gone Stuart. He's gone.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on December 31, 2018, 02:48:20 PM
Stuart, you don't run a chip shop by any chance do you?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: old man villa fan on December 31, 2018, 02:52:59 PM
Quote from: footyskillz on December 31, 2018, 02:04:30 PM
Quote from: Ads on December 31, 2018, 01:36:20 PM
Quote from: footyskillz on December 31, 2018, 01:01:46 PM
Quote from: Ads on December 31, 2018, 12:37:26 PM
You're blaming Smith for an awful defence made weaker? After a run whereby we've only lost 1?

He not beyond constructive criticism for me.
Credit where due but also all for critical analysis of how losing position are occuring.

What I say is bizarre how it's not seemed appropriate to just state facts which occurred and no critical comment is allowed.
That not really fair.
Major pluses have occurred but without some causes for concern

Seeing out game and being the team that drops most points is one of them .

Stop talking out your hat. Plenty on here criticise him, myself included. I just cannot see why you're falling out of your tree because in his 13 or 14 games he hasn't taken the armband off Chester. Or that you cannot see that having 3 right backs, an unfit right footed centre half, with his injury, in poor form and on the wrong side, in front of a suspect keeper, isn't the easiest situation to manage.

Adsy baby !
It's more complex than only having chester as capatin.

I have an issue when someone (Dean Smith) openly talks and advocates an idea and vision, In this case captaincy,  and doesn't implement said idea.

The paradox is that's weak leadership .
Lose respect

I don't know story at Villa that's why I opened it as debate.

Because maybe the players weren't liking Idea or JT or someone .

However as head coach and how he has excellently articlulated his ideas on collective responsibility then it would have been super great if he gave Grealish, Mcginn and others a captaincy match.

I can't be fairer than saying that as that what smith believes - collective responsibility .

Happy new year and I'm done talking Smith . Enjoy yourself this eve and positive for tomorrow.

I respect you ads ! Enjoyed majority of your posts and comments 2018 so continue 2019 we may differ with depth of views or analysis but I hope made clear I disappointed hearing Smith say he likes creating leaders not followers and it never materialized at Villa.

For me I would be disappointed in anyone who makes claims , progressive , inspiring or otherwise and doesn't see it thru.
That's me. That's not you in this situation I get it.
(Helps make me think too how others see things )

Up the villa .
I'm done for 18 see you all next year !!

His comment about captains was at Brentford. I'm sure he would like to do the same at Villa. It takes time to identify leaders. They need to be able to lead and be respected by players to lead them. How long has he had to do this. I'm struggling to think of anybody in the team other than Chester and even he is not an inspirational leader. The problem for so long at Villa has been lack of leadership on the pitch.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on December 31, 2018, 02:53:46 PM
Quote from: LeeB on December 31, 2018, 02:48:20 PM
Stuart, you don't run a chip shop by any chance do you?

Applause.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: stuart445 on December 31, 2018, 03:03:27 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on December 31, 2018, 02:53:46 PM
Quote from: LeeB on December 31, 2018, 02:48:20 PM
Stuart, you don't run a chip shop by any chance do you?

Applause.

Say what you like but I know I'll give Smith the same treatment as I did with Bruce. Can you say the same??? Or are you a member of you can't be critical of Smith regardless of what he does?

And may I add I have not been critical of Smith I'm actually pleased with what he's done so far and the fact we quickly signed a keeper says to me that he'll get the correct players in January.

What people need to remember is Bruce wasn't sacked because of the style of play he was quite rightly sacked because he stopped getting results.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on December 31, 2018, 03:06:51 PM
Quote from: stuart445 on December 31, 2018, 02:42:52 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 31, 2018, 12:55:34 PM
Comparing Smith at this stage with Bruce is nonsense.
Bruce only got stick and from a few when it became obvious he would not make the play offs in his first season.
I think Smith has made some errors but he is operating under some severe limitations thanks to injuries and Bruce having lost the plot.

Bruce got stick from some right from the get go, if we don't get to the playoffs under Smith do you think Smith will get the same treatment as Bruce.... I think we both know the answer to that is No he won't.

your correct he got stick from me before he walked through the door

I don't like the the football he plays and never have, I knew exactly what he would turn us into and he did,
I would also give stick straight away if we ever appointed Pulis or Allardyce or anyone like them,

if we see Smith building something sustainable for the long term that is the exact opposite to what Bruce did in his two years
if you can't see that and just think it's about results only I can't help you but believe me there is a big massive difference

if Smith doesn't start building something based on good style of attacking football, he will be out of a job like Bruce

How the likes of Bruce and Lambert continue to find work defies believe for me
But I suppose threes plenty out there like you who will go along with the results by stealth record, which I admit is not to be sniffed at but that's the difference between you and I

Something we will never agree on I suspect


Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 31, 2018, 03:07:17 PM
Quote from: stuart445 on December 31, 2018, 02:42:52 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 31, 2018, 12:55:34 PM
Comparing Smith at this stage with Bruce is nonsense.
Bruce only got stick and from a few when it became obvious he would not make the play offs in his first season.
I think Smith has made some errors but he is operating under some severe limitations thanks to injuries and Bruce having lost the plot.

Bruce got stick from some right from the get go, if we don't get to the playoffs under Smith do you think Smith will get the same treatment as Bruce.... I think we both know the answer to that is No he won't.
I hope this is not, some never accepted him because he managed that lot.
Very few gave him stick on his appointment and those that did,was because they did not believe that Bruce was the right choice, because of his style and impact on previous clubs and they were right.
I think most will give Smith the time he deserves considering the shit show he inherited.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on December 31, 2018, 03:09:25 PM
Quote from: stuart445 on December 31, 2018, 10:57:24 AM
Quote from: footyskillz on December 30, 2018, 11:14:58 PM
Why give a free pass when the whole intention of shifting Bruce out at that time of season was to still have a chance of being promoted. I can't agree but see your point. This season is not 100% his squad or full season.

However Smith himself would love promotion this season and also he not at a stage of experiments too much maybe that comes late season if villa arent there or thereabouts . However with that squad and the  competition teams I also
feel going to be top end

The big chances' conceded are of concern and I would like if he was at least competitive at top end till season end.

Exactly why give Smith a free pass when no one allowed Bruce a free pass when he was appointed at pretty much the same stage in the season. I'm more than happy Smith is here but let's not have 1 rule for 1 and another rule for someone else let's stay consistent.

Bruce got a free pass for his first18 months from a big majority of our support.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 31, 2018, 03:09:51 PM
Quote from: LeeB on December 31, 2018, 02:48:20 PM
Stuart, you don't run a chip shop by any chance do you?

Guffaws
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: stuart445 on December 31, 2018, 03:10:14 PM
Quote from: john e on December 31, 2018, 03:06:51 PM
Quote from: stuart445 on December 31, 2018, 02:42:52 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 31, 2018, 12:55:34 PM
Comparing Smith at this stage with Bruce is nonsense.
Bruce only got stick and from a few when it became obvious he would not make the play offs in his first season.
I think Smith has made some errors but he is operating under some severe limitations thanks to injuries and Bruce having lost the plot.

Bruce got stick from some right from the get go, if we don't get to the playoffs under Smith do you think Smith will get the same treatment as Bruce.... I think we both know the answer to that is No he won't.

your correct he got stick from me before he walked through the door

I don't like the the football he plays and never have, I knew exactly what he would turn us into and he did,
I would also give stick straight away if we ever appointed Pulis or Allardyce or anyone like them,

if we see Smith building something sustainable for the long term that is the exact opposite to what Bruce did in his two years
if you can't see that and just think it's about results only I can't help you but believe me there is a big massive difference

if Smith doesn't start building something based on good style of attacking football, he will be out of a job like Bruce

How the likes of Bruce and Lambert continue to find work defies believe for me
But I suppose threes plenty out there like you who will go along with the results by stealth record, which I admit is not to be sniffed at but that's the difference between you and I

Something we will never agree on I suspect

Again Bruce wasn't sacked because of the style of football, he was rightly sacked because he stopped getting results. The board and owners may say they want good attacking style but you can guarantee if the results go the same way as Bruce's did this season Smith will go the same way as Bruce.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on December 31, 2018, 03:11:47 PM
All managers get my support.

I happen to believe in this one more than any I've seen recently though.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: stuart445 on December 31, 2018, 03:14:28 PM
Quote from: Ads on December 31, 2018, 03:11:47 PM
All managers get my support.

I happen to believe in this one more than any I've seen recently though.

I agree the early signs are positive I hope beyond hope that it stays this way.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on December 31, 2018, 03:18:36 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on December 31, 2018, 02:45:29 PM
He's gone Stuart. He's gone.

Yes, he has but playing devils advocate, people who still bring him up should maybe remember that as well.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on December 31, 2018, 03:29:13 PM
Quote from: Clampy on December 31, 2018, 03:18:36 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on December 31, 2018, 02:45:29 PM
He's gone Stuart. He's gone.

Yes, he has but playing devils advocate, people who still bring him up should maybe remember that as well.

he's gone

but his unbalanced disjointed squad remains as a constant reminder
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: adrenachrome on December 31, 2018, 03:35:44 PM
Quote from: john e on December 31, 2018, 03:29:13 PM
Quote from: Clampy on December 31, 2018, 03:18:36 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on December 31, 2018, 02:45:29 PM
He's gone Stuart. He's gone.

Yes, he has but playing devils advocate, people who still bring him up should maybe remember that as well.

he's gone

but his unbalanced disjointed squad remains as a constant reminder

As the late, lamented Leonard Cohen once said/sung

His body is gone but back here on lawn
His spirit continues to drool

And that was after he had drowned himself in the pool, whereas Brucey shot off to play golf at his palatial mansion in the Algarve.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 31, 2018, 03:42:07 PM
Quote from: Clampy on December 31, 2018, 03:18:36 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on December 31, 2018, 02:45:29 PM
He's gone Stuart. He's gone.

Yes, he has but playing devils advocate, people who still bring him up should maybe remember that as well.

Unfortunately his stench remains Clampy. He's gone but impossible to forget the damage he has done to our club. MON set us back years and we discuss him. Lambert essentially relegated us and ok, he can't stop talking about us. And now Bruce. As a club we have done it to ourselves but these clowns have really screwed us over. It will take a few years yet to repair the Bruce fuckwittery.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on December 31, 2018, 03:48:07 PM
Quote from: stuart445 on December 31, 2018, 02:42:52 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 31, 2018, 12:55:34 PM
Comparing Smith at this stage with Bruce is nonsense.
Bruce only got stick and from a few when it became obvious he would not make the play offs in his first season.
I think Smith has made some errors but he is operating under some severe limitations thanks to injuries and Bruce having lost the plot.

Bruce got stick from some right from the get go, if we don't get to the playoffs under Smith do you think Smith will get the same treatment as Bruce.... I think we both know the answer to that is No he won't.

I'm one of the people who criticised him from early on (I criticised the performance against Leeds at the start of December and I genuinely don't think we played well again after that until the end of February), my worry was that he'd fill the squad with players unsuited to the premier league or modern management, he'd put us in constant transition y fucking around every transfer window and we'd ultimately not get where we wanted to be because he was out of date.

Did I get it wrong?

With Smith there's a lot of things I like about him but I worry about how he'll handle things later this season as I don't think he's ever experienced anything like the pressure he'll be under towards the end of the season.

However, if Smith is with us for 2 years and then leaves having ultimately failed I don't think he'll leave us with half a defence and a bunch of 30+ players seeing out their massive contracts and contributing very little, that's why he won't get the same level of criticism.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on December 31, 2018, 03:49:25 PM
Quote from: john e on December 31, 2018, 03:29:13 PM
Quote from: Clampy on December 31, 2018, 03:18:36 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on December 31, 2018, 02:45:29 PM
He's gone Stuart. He's gone.

Yes, he has but playing devils advocate, people who still bring him up should maybe remember that as well.

he's gone

but his unbalanced disjointed squad remains as a constant reminder

The defence is a bit of a mess but I wouldn't call the squad disjointed overall. There are still some very good players in it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on December 31, 2018, 03:53:57 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on December 31, 2018, 03:42:07 PM
Quote from: Clampy on December 31, 2018, 03:18:36 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on December 31, 2018, 02:45:29 PM
He's gone Stuart. He's gone.

Yes, he has but playing devils advocate, people who still bring him up should maybe remember that as well.

Unfortunately his stench remains Clampy. He's gone but impossible to forget the damage he has done to our club. MON set us back years and we discuss him. Lambert essentially relegated us and ok, he can't stop talking about us. And now Bruce. As a club we have done it to ourselves but these clowns have really screwed us over. It will take a few years yet to repair the Bruce fuckwittery.

I think it's also fair to mention the shit load of money Di Matteo and Sherwood spent.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: old man villa fan on December 31, 2018, 03:54:32 PM
Quote from: Clampy on December 31, 2018, 03:49:25 PM
Quote from: john e on December 31, 2018, 03:29:13 PM
Quote from: Clampy on December 31, 2018, 03:18:36 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on December 31, 2018, 02:45:29 PM
He's gone Stuart. He's gone.

Yes, he has but playing devils advocate, people who still bring him up should maybe remember that as well.

he's gone

but his unbalanced disjointed squad remains as a constant reminder

The defence is a bit of a mess but I wouldn't call the squad disjointed overall. There are still some very good players in it.

I wouldn't call a squad that has a defensive set of players like ours, joined up, regardless of the number of very good players.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: GarTomas on December 31, 2018, 03:56:06 PM
Dean has done good so far. There has been the implementation of a discernible style which recently has taken a hit with the loss of our best player.

Not that we are a one man team but Grealish on the pitch naturally creates space for others which we've exploited.

Transfer wise we've signed a keeper which all agree needs some work and recalled a centre half who may not be the best but is an upgrade on what we have.

In terms of pressure in the future the experience of Terry will be beneficial and the structure the club has put in place with Pitarch and co.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on December 31, 2018, 03:56:36 PM
Like there were some very good notes on Eric Morecambe's piano.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on December 31, 2018, 03:58:45 PM
Quote from: brian green on December 31, 2018, 03:56:36 PM
Like there were some very good notes on Eric Morecambe's piano.
" Bring me sunshine " Brian
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on December 31, 2018, 04:04:08 PM
Quote from: old man villa fan on December 31, 2018, 03:54:32 PM
Quote from: Clampy on December 31, 2018, 03:49:25 PM
Quote from: john e on December 31, 2018, 03:29:13 PM
Quote from: Clampy on December 31, 2018, 03:18:36 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on December 31, 2018, 02:45:29 PM
He's gone Stuart. He's gone.

Yes, he has but playing devils advocate, people who still bring him up should maybe remember that as well.

he's gone

but his unbalanced disjointed squad remains as a constant reminder

The defence is a bit of a mess but I wouldn't call the squad disjointed overall. There are still some very good players in it.

I wouldn't call a squad that has a defensive set of players like ours, joined up, regardless of the number of very good players.

I did agree about the defence.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 31, 2018, 04:06:34 PM
Without a defense you don’t have a balanced squad

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brassneck on December 31, 2018, 04:30:38 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 31, 2018, 04:06:34 PM
Without a defense you don’t have a balanced squad

Call me old fashioned but last time I watched the team, we played with 4 defenders.

Clampy is stating (correctly) that the squad is not disjointed but needs improving.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on December 31, 2018, 04:36:19 PM
The defence aside (which should have had Elphick, De Laet and another left back in it), I think the rest of the squad is pretty decent but there's room for improvement like with every squad.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 31, 2018, 04:49:05 PM
Quote from: Clampy on December 31, 2018, 03:53:57 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on December 31, 2018, 03:42:07 PM
Quote from: Clampy on December 31, 2018, 03:18:36 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on December 31, 2018, 02:45:29 PM
He's gone Stuart. He's gone.

Yes, he has but playing devils advocate, people who still bring him up should maybe remember that as well.

Unfortunately his stench remains Clampy. He's gone but impossible to forget the damage he has done to our club. MON set us back years and we discuss him. Lambert essentially relegated us and ok, he can't stop talking about us. And now Bruce. As a club we have done it to ourselves but these clowns have really screwed us over. It will take a few years yet to repair the Bruce fuckwittery.

I think it's also fair to mention the shit load of money Di Matteo and Sherwood spent.

Oh they are part of this too. It’s a litany of terrible managerial appointments and subsequently decisions made to support them. No long term planning whatsoever.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 31, 2018, 05:04:25 PM
Quote from: Brassneck on December 31, 2018, 04:30:38 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 31, 2018, 04:06:34 PM
Without a defense you don’t have a balanced squad

Call me old fashioned but last time I watched the team, we played with 4 defenders.

Clampy is stating (correctly) that the squad is not disjointed but needs improving.
5 Right Backs 1 Left Back and because of the Summer transfer business no cover at Centre Back.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on December 31, 2018, 06:14:57 PM
And an England youth team centre back playing right back for Grimsby.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on December 31, 2018, 06:25:36 PM
Quote from: brian green on December 31, 2018, 06:14:57 PM
And an England youth team centre back playing right back for Grimsby.

If you mean Suliman he played twice for Grimsby last season and he's back with us now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 31, 2018, 06:26:18 PM
We've spent the last 4 months with 2 CB, 1 LB, 3 RB and 4 keepers. It's a total mess.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brassneck on December 31, 2018, 06:27:29 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 31, 2018, 05:04:25 PM
Quote from: Brassneck on December 31, 2018, 04:30:38 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 31, 2018, 04:06:34 PM
Without a defense you don’t have a balanced squad

Call me old fashioned but last time I watched the team, we played with 4 defenders.

Clampy is stating (correctly) that the squad is not disjointed but needs improving.
5 Right Backs 1 Left Back and because of the Summer transfer business no cover at Centre Back.

We do have an under 23s you know?

We're not Chelsea or Man United.  We had the option of playing kids just like Leeds and Preston have been forced to do against us recently but the manager chose to play more experienced players.

Nobody is claiming that the defence is perfect but it most certainly doesn't imbalance the entire squad.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SheffieldVillain on December 31, 2018, 06:29:05 PM
Quote from: Brassneck on December 31, 2018, 04:30:38 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 31, 2018, 04:06:34 PM
Without a defense you don’t have a balanced squad

Call me old fashioned but last time I watched the team, we played with 4 defenders.

Clampy is stating (correctly) that the squad is not disjointed but needs improving.

Yes. Three of them were right backs, two of whom were playing out of their favoured position 

Quite apart from the 5 right backs and 1 left back plus lack of cover at centre back:
-  a loaned goalkeeper who doesn't make the bench as part of now 6 goalkeepers who could be considered for at least the first team squad
- 5 wingers including Green but no effective cover for Grealish or Abraham.
- two of our highest earners are McCormack and Richards who will likely never kick a ball for us again.

The definition of disjointed.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 31, 2018, 06:29:53 PM
Suliman is 21 soon and has done nothing in his club career. He's out on loan at FC Emmen and has played about 10 minutes first team football for them. Last season he played an hour for Grimsby.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on December 31, 2018, 06:31:05 PM
Quote from: Clampy on December 31, 2018, 04:36:19 PM
The defence aside (which should have had Elphick, De Laet and another left back in it), I think the rest of the squad is pretty decent but there's room for improvement like with every squad.


I think for money we've spent since dropping down its a very poor show

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on December 31, 2018, 06:34:23 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on December 31, 2018, 06:29:53 PM
Suliman is 21 soon and has done nothing in his club career. He's out on loan at FC Emmen and has played about 10 minutes first team football for them. Last season he played an hour for Grimsby.

He got recalled a couple of days ago. He'd played ten minutes for them and it was mutually agreed that it was a waste of time him being there.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 31, 2018, 06:38:14 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on December 31, 2018, 06:34:23 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on December 31, 2018, 06:29:53 PM
Suliman is 21 soon and has done nothing in his club career. He's out on loan at FC Emmen and has played about 10 minutes first team football for them. Last season he played an hour for Grimsby.

He got recalled a couple of days ago. He'd played ten minutes for them and it was mutually agreed that it was a waste of time him being there.

So they didn't pay a loan fee for him then.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brassneck on December 31, 2018, 06:44:59 PM
Quote from: SheffieldVillain on December 31, 2018, 06:29:05 PM
Quote from: Brassneck on December 31, 2018, 04:30:38 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 31, 2018, 04:06:34 PM
Without a defense you don’t have a balanced squad

Call me old fashioned but last time I watched the team, we played with 4 defenders.

Clampy is stating (correctly) that the squad is not disjointed but needs improving.

If you call that disjointed, I'd love to hear your opinion of Preston's squad for Saturday, or most Championship sides for that matter, league leaders Leeds included.

Elphick (a so called "squad player") would and has started for 2 different Championship sides whilst being loaned out by us.  How many other sides in this division could claim that?  People need to take stock of where we are and stop thinking that we should automatically have 2 experienced pros for every position.  The problem is, we've been spoiled and now people expect it as a given.  If we are able to boast such a luxury

Yes. Three of them were right backs, two of whom were playing out of their favoured position 

Quite apart from the 5 right backs and 1 left back plus lack of cover at centre back:
-  a loaned goalkeeper who doesn't make the bench as part of now 6 goalkeepers who could be considered for at least the first team squad
- 5 wingers including Green but no effective cover for Grealish or Abraham.
- two of our highest earners are McCormack and Richards who will likely never kick a ball for us again.

The definition of disjointed.

If you think that is disjointed, I'd love to hear your opinion on Preston's squad on Saturday - Or any other Championship side for that matter, Leeds included.

We are in the Championship and people need to understand this.  It is not the norm to have 2 experienced pros to every position down here.  Leeds aren't moaning, Cardiff didn't moan last season nor Huddersfield the season before.  Have a look at any top 6 team and look at their bench and beyond.  The problem is, we've been spoiled and now expect it. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 31, 2018, 06:50:54 PM
It is the norm to have more than 1 left back and 2 CB though, especially when you've spent as much as we have. Preston were fecked with injuries on Saturday, at full strength we still only have 1 left back and 2 CB. Bromsgrove Sporting have more CB in their squad than we do.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SheffieldVillain on December 31, 2018, 06:56:46 PM
Quote from: Brassneck on December 31, 2018, 06:44:59 PM
Quote from: SheffieldVillain on December 31, 2018, 06:29:05 PM
Quote from: Brassneck on December 31, 2018, 04:30:38 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 31, 2018, 04:06:34 PM
Without a defense you don’t have a balanced squad

Call me old fashioned but last time I watched the team, we played with 4 defenders.

Clampy is stating (correctly) that the squad is not disjointed but needs improving.

If you call that disjointed, I'd love to hear your opinion of Preston's squad for Saturday, or most Championship sides for that matter, league leaders Leeds included.

Elphick (a so called "squad player") would and has started for 2 different Championship sides whilst being loaned out by us.  How many other sides in this division could claim that?  People need to take stock of where we are and stop thinking that we should automatically have 2 experienced pros for every position.  The problem is, we've been spoiled and now people expect it as a given.  If we are able to boast such a luxury

Yes. Three of them were right backs, two of whom were playing out of their favoured position 

Quite apart from the 5 right backs and 1 left back plus lack of cover at centre back:
-  a loaned goalkeeper who doesn't make the bench as part of now 6 goalkeepers who could be considered for at least the first team squad
- 5 wingers including Green but no effective cover for Grealish or Abraham.
- two of our highest earners are McCormack and Richards who will likely never kick a ball for us again.

The definition of disjointed.

If you think that is disjointed, I'd love to hear your opinion on Preston's squad on Saturday - Or any other Championship side for that matter, Leeds included.

We are in the Championship and people need to understand this.  It is not the norm to have 2 experienced pros to every position down here.  Leeds aren't moaning, Cardiff didn't moan last season nor Huddersfield the season before.  Have a look at any top 6 team and look at their bench and beyond.  The problem is, we've been spoiled and now expect it. 

Unfortunately I'm unable to give you my opinion on Preston's squad, or any other squad in the Championship as I couldn't give a flying fuck about Preston's squad or any other squad in the Championship. I care about whether our transfer policy - spending more money on wages and fees than the vast majority of teams in the league - has given us a balanced squad. It hasn't.

- Whether bringing in a goalkeeper on loan would have been better filling the space with a centre half.
- Whether loaning yet another winger was entirely necessary - again could that space have been better utilised.

We have more than enough players - contrary to most squads in the league - are they distributed well across the positions in the squad?. Nope.

Also, I think you'll find that all posters understand that we are in the Championship.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brassneck on December 31, 2018, 07:01:31 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on December 31, 2018, 06:50:54 PM
It is the norm to have more than 1 left back and 2 CB though, especially when you've spent as much as we have. Preston were fecked with injuries on Saturday, at full strength we still only have 1 left back and 2 CB. Bromsgrove Sporting have more CB in their squad than we do.

I think we both know that the defence is going to be strengthened in January.

Nobody is claiming the defence is great but (excuse me for having an opinion here), the squad is not disjointed because of the poor defence.  I accept it is weakened but disjointed is the wrong description.

Hutton looked to be decent added cover at LB after his performances there last season but sadly has struggled a bit this time around.  Playing a RB at LB is not the end of the world though, in much the same way that playing Bolasie on his weaker side isn't and I'd wager that Hutton would get into many Championship sides at LB.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Border villan on December 31, 2018, 07:10:20 PM
Quote from: Brassneck on December 31, 2018, 07:01:31 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on December 31, 2018, 06:50:54 PM
It is the norm to have more than 1 left back and 2 CB though, especially when you've spent as much as we have. Preston were fecked with injuries on Saturday, at full strength we still only have 1 left back and 2 CB. Bromsgrove Sporting have more CB in their squad than we do.


I think we both know that the defence is going to be strengthened in January.

Nobody is claiming the defence is great but (excuse me for having an opinion here), the squad is not disjointed because of the poor defence.  I accept it is weakened but disjointed is the wrong description.

Hutton looked to be decent added cover at LB after his performances there last season but sadly has struggled a bit this time around.  Playing a RB at LB is not the end of the world though, in much the same way that playing Bolasie on his weaker side isn't and I'd wager that Hutton would get into many Championship sides at LB.
So if Bolasie was playing on his stronger side would he retain the ball better and chase after the ball when he has just lost it unlike the way he stood around at Preston?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on December 31, 2018, 07:17:51 PM
If Bolasie was playing on his stronger side, he'd be whipping more first time crosses in, which he doesn't tend to do as much on the left.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brassneck on December 31, 2018, 07:26:11 PM
Quote from: Clampy on December 31, 2018, 07:17:51 PM
If Bolasie was playing on his stronger side, he'd be whipping more first time crosses in, which he doesn't tend to do as much on the left.

Is the correct answer.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 31, 2018, 07:29:30 PM
Of course we'll strengthen in January, that won't help the previous 4 months of a disjointed squad though which is what was being discussed.
And it is disjointed, it's the very definition of it when you have more keepers than CB and LB combined have and spent nearly all season so far playing defenders either injured or out of position as there's no one else to pick. And no one has said you can't have an opinion but some people will disagree, and some will agree, with you.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on December 31, 2018, 07:43:45 PM
Quote from: Clampy on December 31, 2018, 07:17:51 PM
If Bolasie was playing on his stronger side, he'd be whipping more first time crosses in, which he doesn't tend to do as much on the left.

Bolasies best form of his career came as a left winger for Palace, to be honest I'd say thats his natural position.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brassneck on December 31, 2018, 08:01:01 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on December 31, 2018, 07:29:30 PM
Of course we'll strengthen in January, that won't help the previous 4 months of a disjointed squad though which is what was being discussed.
And it is disjointed, it's the very definition of it when you have more keepers than CB and LB combined have and spent nearly all season so far playing defenders either injured or out of position as there's no one else to pick. And no one has said you can't have an opinion but some people will disagree, and some will agree, with you.

Hutton was adequate cover as LB.

CB has been a problem since the close of the summer window.  Letting Elphick go and thinking Jedinak was a better option is the root cause but being lightweight in 1 position does not make an entire squad disjointed.

Anyway, we’ve both said our piece (for the second night running) I’m off to see the new year in.  We aren’t going to be influenced by “the bloke on the internet “ are we?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 31, 2018, 08:47:10 PM
I never am.

Happy New Year to you and yours, and to everyone else on the site. Hope you all have a good one.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: GarTomas on December 31, 2018, 09:47:11 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on December 31, 2018, 06:38:14 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on December 31, 2018, 06:34:23 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on December 31, 2018, 06:29:53 PM
Suliman is 21 soon and has done nothing in his club career. He's out on loan at FC Emmen and has played about 10 minutes first team football for them. Last season he played an hour for Grimsby.

He got recalled a couple of days ago. He'd played ten minutes for them and it was mutually agreed that it was a waste of time him being there.

So they didn't pay a loan fee for him then.

Megalulz
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 01, 2019, 05:12:57 PM
Sort it out Dean. I know there are injuries, but the last few games have been really poor. Completely aimless today.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 01, 2019, 05:14:59 PM
I think the players are reverting to what they know. I don’t think for a second a manager who plays one defined style sends the players out to play that way. Look at the stats. We are now a hybrid now of the two mangement styles and it naturally looks terrible. Lots of attacking play but when we get desperate long ball hit and hope. And defensively we are utter wank.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on January 01, 2019, 05:17:11 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on January 01, 2019, 05:14:59 PM
I think the players are reverting to what they know. I don’t think for a second a manager who plays one defined style sends the players out to play that way. Look at the stats. We are now a hybrid now of attacking play but when we get desperate long ball hit and hope. And defensively we are utter wank.

We play it long later on in games because the midfield haven't got the legs to play through them, getting a proper defensive midfielder is the key to resolving that, and has the additional benefit of stopping us from conceding chances like the first goal.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 01, 2019, 05:19:56 PM
Quote from: paul_e on January 01, 2019, 05:17:11 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on January 01, 2019, 05:14:59 PM
I think the players are reverting to what they know. I don’t think for a second a manager who plays one defined style sends the players out to play that way. Look at the stats. We are now a hybrid now of attacking play but when we get desperate long ball hit and hope. And defensively we are utter wank.

We play it long later on in games because the midfield haven't got the legs to play through them, getting a proper defensive midfielder is the key to resolving that, and has the additional benefit of stopping us from conceding chances like the first goal.

I don’t disagree. That’s why I’m saying that it just won’t change until he gets a deeper squad of his type of players. He doesn’t have it right now and when we are still having to bring on the likes of Whelan late in games it doesn’t make this better.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 01, 2019, 05:22:13 PM
Hourihane is a real problem. He should be a creative outlet, but so much of the game just passes him by.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: DB on January 01, 2019, 05:24:54 PM
Another 2 goals conceded. We are going to go nowhere until we stop leaking goals.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 01, 2019, 05:38:13 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on January 01, 2019, 05:22:13 PM
Hourihane is a real problem. He should be a creative outlet, but so much of the game just passes him by.
Exactly.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on January 01, 2019, 05:44:26 PM
Quote from: DB on January 01, 2019, 05:24:54 PM
Another 2 goals conceded. We are going to go nowhere until we stop leaking goals.

14 goals conceded in last 5 home games. Even if you take out the 5 against Forest, what would still look piss poor.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on January 01, 2019, 05:50:05 PM
More damning, of the defence, is that we've scored at least twice in our last 4 homes games and not won any of them.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: passport1 on January 01, 2019, 05:54:18 PM
We wanted him to turn us into Brentford. He looks to be doing that according to the form league for the last six games.

https://www.twtd.co.uk/league-tables/competition:championship/form/matches:6/type:home-and-away
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 01, 2019, 05:54:35 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on January 01, 2019, 05:44:26 PM
Quote from: DB on January 01, 2019, 05:24:54 PM
Another 2 goals conceded. We are going to go nowhere until we stop leaking goals.

14 goals conceded in last 5 home games. Even if you take out the 5 against Forest, what would still look piss poor.

Yep, although I blame the defence and midfield. Other than SJM the others are hopeless at tracking runners and protecting the back line.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on January 01, 2019, 06:00:37 PM
Dean had a couple of these runs at Walsall.

Team would be playing fine and then out of nowhere things would drop off and the team wouldn't win for 10 games. Wasn't even as if the team was playing badly but would be loads of draws and all that.

Happened a couple of times in his 5 seasons there. He also had a horrible start at Brentford last season although they eventually snapped out of it.

Let's hope we do as this should be a good part of the season to generate momentum again.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on January 01, 2019, 06:05:11 PM
Critical of him bringing on Whelan instead of either Hogan or Davis when we needed a goal.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 01, 2019, 06:06:48 PM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on January 01, 2019, 06:05:11 PM
Critical of him bringing on Whelan instead of either Hogan or Davis when we needed a goal.
They kept running past Hourihane I would have made the swap earlier.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on January 01, 2019, 06:07:15 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on January 01, 2019, 05:14:59 PM
I think the players are reverting to what they know. I don’t think for a second a manager who plays one defined style sends the players out to play that way. Look at the stats. We are now a hybrid now of the two mangement styles and it naturally looks terrible. Lots of attacking play but when we get desperate long ball hit and hope. And defensively we are utter wank.

Grealish knits everything together in the middle tbh. He personally hasn't hit the heights he did from January last year but boy do you see the difference in our speed and thought when in possession with him unavailable.

We certainly need a Sawyers type in this window if Jack is out long term.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on January 01, 2019, 06:09:25 PM
Sorry to say it because I really do like Dean Smith but the performances of his teams become more Brucesque with every game.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on January 01, 2019, 06:12:47 PM
Ironic thing is we could've done with the SB negative mindset one nil up to PNE and today.

At this part of the season I have no issue whatsoever with grinding out ugly 1-0 wins like at Swansea.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 01, 2019, 06:15:03 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on January 01, 2019, 06:12:47 PM
Ironic thing is we could've done with the SB negative mindset one nil up to PNE and today.

At this part of the season I have no issue whatsoever with grinding out ugly 1-0 wins like at Swansea.

I agree though I think even if he wanted to the terrible mental errors have killed him. In fact we saw it did Bruce in.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Matt Collins on January 01, 2019, 06:33:28 PM
Was never going to be a linear improvement

Needs to regroup now and go again after the break

Tho I was concerned today with the long balls. More seriously, I always thought Brentford lacked killer instinct. And we seriously lack killer instinct at the moment. At both ends
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: four fornicholl on January 01, 2019, 06:36:45 PM
Quote from: brian green on January 01, 2019, 06:09:25 PM
Sorry to say it because I really do like Dean Smith but the performances of his teams become more Brucesque with every game.
Hopefully because he's pissing with Bruces' cock.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on January 01, 2019, 06:37:25 PM
DS post match interview https://twitter.com/AVFCOfficial/status/1080160681582870528
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 01, 2019, 06:48:15 PM
Sounds like Axel done for most of the rest of the season and Jack maybe back in Jan more likely Feb.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on January 01, 2019, 06:54:08 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on January 01, 2019, 06:06:48 PM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on January 01, 2019, 06:05:11 PM
Critical of him bringing on Whelan instead of either Hogan or Davis when we needed a goal.
They kept running past Hourihane I would have made the swap earlier.

Yup, he’s not fit enough for that deep lying shield role
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on January 01, 2019, 06:59:27 PM
He’s been very good lately at analysing where things have gone wrong. Less good at doing something about it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 01, 2019, 07:03:14 PM
Quote from: Risso on January 01, 2019, 06:59:27 PM
He’s been very good lately at analysing where things have gone wrong. Less good at doing something about it.

You could argue though that the squad needed a new keeper and we got one. We needed a new left sided CB and it appears we are getting one. We need an attacking midfielder and that could be Sawyers. The key areas we all can see we need better players or where need to create depth he sees also. Not saying he’s not made errors, but it’s hard to change a lot with what he’s had available.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on January 01, 2019, 07:05:36 PM
Maybe it's a case of the players are the ones not so good at doing what he wants them to, especially as we haven't been able to rotate much so mental and physical tiredness is probably creeping in more.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: itmustbe_it is! on January 01, 2019, 07:07:33 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on January 01, 2019, 05:22:13 PM
Hourihane is a real problem. He should be a creative outlet, but so much of the game just passes him by.

This. He was awful today.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: wittonwarrior on January 01, 2019, 07:24:25 PM
He working with Bruce’s team give the man the chance to carry out the necessary treatment before criticising.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Matt Collins on January 01, 2019, 07:37:38 PM
Agree hourihane was awful

I'm not a huge fan. But today I think we need to give the benefit of the doubt to him being knackered
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on January 01, 2019, 08:33:36 PM
I think Smith tried to play football the right way from the start and it worked for few games but other teams learnt and can stop us easily as our players are not good enough to counteract opposition tactics. If Smith is to be success at VP he needs much better players around him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on January 01, 2019, 08:48:26 PM
'I could be closed to signing anyone as we are looking at a number of players'.

We have levelled with this group of players.  We cannot continue to buy our way out of trouble but we really do need fresh blood.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on January 01, 2019, 08:56:47 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on January 01, 2019, 05:54:35 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on January 01, 2019, 05:44:26 PM
Quote from: DB on January 01, 2019, 05:24:54 PM
Another 2 goals conceded. We are going to go nowhere until we stop leaking goals.

14 goals conceded in last 5 home games. Even if you take out the 5 against Forest, what would still look piss poor.

Yep, although I blame the defence and midfield. Other than SJM the others are hopeless at tracking runners and protecting the back line.

SJM cost us the goal at Preston by not tracking his runner.

Him and Hourihane looked knackered today and Smith confirmed it after the game. I'd give plenty of the first team a rest on Saturday and give the kids a chance.

This squad isn't fit enough to do what Smith's asking them to do when the games come as thick and fast as they do at this time of year. He needs a full pre-season with them before we start judging him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on January 01, 2019, 09:01:25 PM
4 games in 9 days and because of the situation we're in I think it's 6 players have played all of them, bar a few mins at the end a couple of times for Hourihane and once for Tammy, is going to have an effect as well.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The_ads on January 01, 2019, 09:01:47 PM
Smith has signed none of these players. Not one single one...and he’s already seeing the murmurings of criticism from some quarters. Smith gets a bye for the rest of the season no question. Notwithstanding I still think we’ll make the play offs and I still think we’ll be promoted.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on January 01, 2019, 09:10:30 PM
Smith in his interview postmatch seems to know an awful lot of how the opposition going to play and what they are going to do and seems to tell us all about it .

Counter attacking was QPR game plan known before we even kick off according to Deano yet both our goals we conceded counter attack.

Happened against Leeds in final minute too.
Counter attack goals seem to be a killer why is this not being addressed?

He talks so different to Bruce but he is also making glaring errors and poor subs and tactics .

Sticking to one striker and losing leads

It's entertaining but very naive at times.

We won't get top quality players in this window so not really sure how can be addressed in midfield.

Also if villa were keeping clean sheets JT would be praises and credited we're not so I think should be questionned what he's doing
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on January 01, 2019, 09:11:04 PM
I really like him but i'm not giving him a bye for 34 games.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on January 01, 2019, 09:15:58 PM
Quote from: The_ads on January 01, 2019, 09:01:47 PM
Smith has signed none of these players. Not one single one...and he’s already seeing the murmurings of criticism from some quarters. Smith gets a bye for the rest of the season no question. Notwithstanding I still think we’ll make the play offs and I still think we’ll be promoted.

An awful lot said that we just needed a change to an attack minded manager and we would fly as we had the best squad in the league.

I think we should be doing far better.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on January 01, 2019, 09:18:13 PM
Not finishing in the top 6 would be a failure.

If people were asking this of SB when he first took over in 16/17 it certainly should be asked for now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Matt Collins on January 01, 2019, 09:18:26 PM
We have to give some leeway due to the injuries and rubbish defence he was left with

I agree we should be doing better over recent games. And Smith has some culpability on that front. It would have been possible to get us defending better.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Fred Crump on January 01, 2019, 09:27:47 PM
Good grief. Give the bloke a break. He’s less than three months into the job , hasn’t yet had a transfer window, injuries to key players and we are still in with a good shout of the playoffs. How many of the critical posters above would feel happy being criticised in their jobs with similar constraints after that period of time , I wonder?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on January 01, 2019, 09:28:18 PM
It's his obessesion with this front foot attacking football which raises already high expectations but also gives far too open a team .

I think getting done on counter attack will be a regular occurrence with this sort of tactic as teams know what to expect under a Dean smith team.

Unless we get Fernandino, and Luca modric in kidfield say David Alaba left back and Varane centre back then these 2-2 and such will probably keep occurring as we have the attacking players but defensively naive and I don't know how that will change this season or how Smiths philosophy can be implemented

It's a great idea but the players, like at Brentford will give you good value and some entertaining, but won't get the necessary results like boring Bruce.

I just hope Smith finds a balance and tweaks yo suit the squad we have .
He's certainly aware as a coach but it's having the know how to get the result .
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on January 01, 2019, 09:29:13 PM
What we saw in the games pre Stoke (and briefly vs Leeds) is that despite the unbalanced squad we have the attacking players to rip any team in this league a new arsehole.

Bruce copped criticism for failing to get a song from players who are better than this league, and to get results in keeping with our resources, and smith shouldn’t be immune to the same criticism this season.

For example we have a back 4 which most of us don’t rate but I’d say plenty of teams in this league would kill for.

Fed up of excuses.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on January 01, 2019, 09:29:37 PM
He definitely gets leeway from me for what he's had to work with this month especially defensively, but certainly in a couple of months I'd like to see us playing in a way that at the very least you can see a style of play that gives confidence that we'll be mounting a serious promotion challenge next season. The lack of sign of any kind of style of play or long term plan was the reason I started thinking Bruce wasn't the right person before his first season had ended.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 01, 2019, 09:37:36 PM
Easy to say or assume but if Jack and Axel has stayed fit we’d still be playing a consistent style and we’d be in the top 6 comfortably. Bit hard to do when they haven’t been available along with other shit luck. Not saying he shouldn’t have tried to shut up shop in some games but even then I’m not convinced bone headed mistakes wouldn’t have happened.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on January 01, 2019, 09:37:44 PM
Quote from: Fred Crump on January 01, 2019, 09:27:47 PM
Good grief. Give the bloke a break. He’s less than three months into the job , hasn’t yet had a transfer window, injuries to key players and we are still in with a good shout of the playoffs. How many of the critical posters above would feel happy being criticised in their jobs with similar constraints after that period of time , I wonder?

Think people who are giving a 3 month appraisal are perfectly right and healthy to on performance so far .

Injuries and unbalanced squad are taken into consideration by all , I believe , which comment here as we are all aware .

However it feels like some have head in clouds and that posters who even ' dare' give a critical performance observation and question are just told
" he hasn't been here long "
"It's not his squad"
"We have injuries"

I admire dean Smith as he doesn't use this as an excuse and I don't think ever would .
That's a massive plus about this coach.

He's working with what he's got and we are commenting on how he's working with what he's got.

Straightforward really.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 01, 2019, 09:39:00 PM
Why are they heads in the clouds statements when all of it is absolutely factually correct?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on January 01, 2019, 09:44:03 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on January 01, 2019, 09:39:00 PM
Why are they heads in the clouds statements when all of it is absolutely factually correct?

That seemingly Dean smith is above critical analysis so that why as my own observation to some it feels he can't be questionned .

Yet after 3 months plus recurring paterns and general debate for improvement some comment on what needs improving or how we are playing should be made without being told it's too soon or it's harsh when it's actually pretty accurate or fair assessment of situation

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OzVilla on January 01, 2019, 09:44:41 PM
Bruce left us with a lopsided squad not fit for purpose - that being promotion. It’s still the same squad but depleted further by injuries to crucial players and loss of form of players playing out of position (Chester which was largely caused by Bruce’s negligence). Dean Smith needs time to sort out the clusterfuck at the back and on the training ground he now so clearly inherited.

We’ll be a good shout for play offs but we’re never going to be in the running for the autos once Bruce had left us in a mess imo.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OzVilla on January 01, 2019, 09:49:37 PM
Quote from: footyskillz on January 01, 2019, 09:44:03 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on January 01, 2019, 09:39:00 PM
Why are they heads in the clouds statements when all of it is absolutely factually correct?

That seemingly Dean smith is above critical analysis so that why as my own observation to some it feels he can't be questionned .

Yet after 3 months plus recurring paterns and general debate for improvement some comment on what needs improving or how we are playing should be made without being told it's too soon or it's harsh when it's actually pretty accurate or fair assessment of situation



Isn’t the point being made that the way Smith is asking us to play as at odds with the abilities, both technical and physical, with the squad left and conditioned by Bruce and his team. Not really being critical of Smith more what he inherited. He’s just working out who he needs to keep and move on, the style will be the style.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Fred Crump on January 01, 2019, 09:51:07 PM
I’m really looking forward to games as I never did under Bruce for the following reasons:  a) its entertaining b) we have an intelligent articulate manager who makes sensible decisions most of the time and c) he has changed the way we try to play , even if at times the team hasn’t been able to carry it out because of limitations caused by injury or lack of technical capability. We quite rightly moaned about the dreary , defensive, directionless, disjointed performances under Bruce and blamed him. It seems a bit odd to grumble about Dean Smith already when we are for the most part watching goals, attacking intent and effort from the same set of players - surely it must be him making the difference?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: achilles on January 01, 2019, 09:53:41 PM
Quote from: Fred Crump on January 01, 2019, 09:51:07 PM
I’m really looking forward to games as I never did under Bruce for the following reasons:  a) its entertaining b) we have an intelligent articulate manager who makes sensible decisions most of the time and c) he has changed the way we try to play , even if at times the team hasn’t been able to carry it out because of limitations caused by injury or lack of technical capability. We quite rightly moaned about the dreary , defensive, directionless, disjointed performances under Bruce and blamed him. It seems a bit odd to grumble about Dean Smith already when we are for the most part watching goals, attacking intent and effort from the same set of players - surely it must be him making the difference?

Can't argue with that, perhaps in a couple of years I might re-visit!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Fred Crump on January 01, 2019, 09:57:23 PM
Quote from: achilles on January 01, 2019, 09:53:41 PM
Quote from: Fred Crump on January 01, 2019, 09:51:07 PM
I’m really looking forward to games as I never did under Bruce for the following reasons:  a) its entertaining b) we have an intelligent articulate manager who makes sensible decisions most of the time and c) he has changed the way we try to play , even if at times the team hasn’t been able to carry it out because of limitations caused by injury or lack of technical capability. We quite rightly moaned about the dreary , defensive, directionless, disjointed performances under Bruce and blamed him. It seems a bit odd to grumble about Dean Smith already when we are for the most part watching goals, attacking intent and effort from the same set of players - surely it must be him making the difference?

Can't argue with that, perhaps in a couple of years I might re-visit!


Me too.  But until then I’m going to enjoy it !  :)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on January 01, 2019, 10:01:12 PM
Not odd to grumble and flag up a pattern about dropping points .

Noting that have been drawing last two matches after leading in both when wins would have put us in a stronger position in gains on those above .

It's ok to comment and make observation on the current manager relative shortcomings as much as it is to swoon and enjoy the attacking play.

We know to expect attacking football it's all the other stuff which is failing us that I hope will be addressed
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Fred Crump on January 01, 2019, 10:02:54 PM
“Think people who are giving a 3 month appraisal are perfectly right and healthy to on performance so far”

Of course , it’s a fans forum. It’s about opinions. But I don’t have to agree with yours and for what it’s worth, I don’t think I’ve got my head in the clouds Mr Footyskillz.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Fred Crump on January 01, 2019, 10:04:35 PM
Or am I prone to swooning.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on January 01, 2019, 10:10:55 PM
Well Dean Smith has the capability to woo us all if it clicks right

Will leave it there !

Up the villa
And enjoy the new year my crump !

Quote from: Fred Crump on January 01, 2019, 10:02:54 PM
“Think people who are giving a 3 month appraisal are perfectly right and healthy to on performance so far”

Of course , it’s a fans forum. It’s about opinions. But I don’t have to agree with yours and for what it’s worth, I don’t think I’ve got my head in the clouds Mr Footyskillz.

Quote from: Fred Crump on January 01, 2019, 10:04:35 PM
Or am I prone to swooning.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on January 01, 2019, 10:16:50 PM
Quote from: OzVilla on January 01, 2019, 09:44:41 PM
Bruce left us with a lopsided squad not fit for purpose - that being promotion. It’s still the same squad but depleted further by injuries to crucial players and loss of form of players playing out of position (Chester which was largely caused by Bruce’s negligence). Dean Smith needs time to sort out the clusterfuck at the back and on the training ground he now so clearly inherited.

We’ll be a good shout for play offs but we’re never going to be in the running for the autos once Bruce had left us in a mess imo.

We looked possibly the best side in the division v West Brom only a few weeks ago, should have won comfortably.

No one has stepped up with Grealish off but Smith's use of whats left of the squad hasnt been great over Xmas imo
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Fred Crump on January 01, 2019, 10:17:26 PM
 Cheers, You too Footy  :)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on January 01, 2019, 10:30:18 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on January 01, 2019, 09:18:13 PM
Not finishing in the top 6 would be a failure.

If people were asking this of SB when he first took over in 16/17 it certainly should be asked for now.

yep I would agree,
Bruce didn't exactly take over a smooth running engine of a side and I said he should make the play offs at least in his first season
Smith had taken over a mish mash if a squad but I still feel he should be making the play offs

the reason being we arn't playing in some top quality league here, we are in the championship
QPR, Middlesbrough and fucking Birmingham City are above us
the sides above and around us are no better than us, we might have a toothless midfield without Grealish but it's still better than most

the general quality is poor, you don't have to be great to make it in the top 6,
 you just have to get yourselves organised  have a go and play with confidence, and we have enough players who can do that even if most of them were bought by Bruce and will not make the grade long term

so I agree with PWS im not giving him a bye for the rest of the season I want to see us play with that swagger again and get into those top 6 places 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Matt C on January 01, 2019, 10:40:47 PM
Several big injuries all arriving at once has set us back, we’ve lost the fluidity of play (albeit with defensive frailties) and momentum that was with us.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on January 01, 2019, 10:45:47 PM
Quote from: john e on January 01, 2019, 10:30:18 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on January 01, 2019, 09:18:13 PM
Not finishing in the top 6 would be a failure.

If people were asking this of SB when he first took over in 16/17 it certainly should be asked for now.

yep I would agree,
Bruce didn't exactly take over a smooth running engine of a side and I said he should make the play offs at least in his first season
Smith had taken over a mish mash if a squad but I still feel he should be making the play offs

the reason being we arn't playing in some top quality league here, we are in the championship
QPR, Middlesbrough and fucking Birmingham City are above us
the sides above and around us are no better than us, we might have a toothless midfield without Grealish but it's still better than most

the general quality is poor, you don't have to be great to make it in the top 6,
 you just have to get yourselves organised  have a go and play with confidence, and we have enough players who can do that even if most of them were bought by Bruce and will not make the grade long term

so I agree with PWS im not giving him a bye for the rest of the season I want to see us play with that swagger again and get into those top 6 places

Commentary on sky sports of Villa Preston said on new years day 2018 all the  teams occupying the play off position  did not finish in the play offs (Cardiff promoted, all the others dropped off)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on January 01, 2019, 10:56:26 PM
Bristol City 3rd (Cardiff City)Leeds United 5th Sheffield United 6th were the play off teams before new years day matches last year .

None made to season end
Sheffield Utd 10th . 5 points off play offs
Bristol city 11th . 8 points off
Leeds 13th . 15 points off
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on January 01, 2019, 10:58:24 PM
Before the NYD games we were 7th, outside the top 6 on goal difference so it's a correct stat, after the NYD games we were 5th which also makes it incorrect.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on January 01, 2019, 10:59:29 PM
Will be different this time, all of Sheffield United, Derby, Norwich/WBA and one other will be top 6 I think, let's hope it's us.

Being greedy I'd like Boro in there as we always do well against them.

As well as QPR and SHA have done I'd be amazed if either got 70 + points. Way we're going we won't either but there's still 20 games left and we need to win 10 of them so 50% win ratio for rest of season is not panic stations.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on January 01, 2019, 11:07:23 PM
Hull have somehow become the form team, W8 D3 L1, including 5 wins on the spin.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on January 02, 2019, 12:04:17 AM
Quote from: john e on January 01, 2019, 10:30:18 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on January 01, 2019, 09:18:13 PM
Not finishing in the top 6 would be a failure.

If people were asking this of SB when he first took over in 16/17 it certainly should be asked for now.

yep I would agree,
Bruce didn't exactly take over a smooth running engine of a side and I said he should make the play offs at least in his first season
Smith had taken over a mish mash if a squad but I still feel he should be making the play offs

the reason being we arn't playing in some top quality league here, we are in the championship
QPR, Middlesbrough and fucking Birmingham City are above us
the sides above and around us are no better than us, we might have a toothless midfield without Grealish but it's still better than most

the general quality is poor, you don't have to be great to make it in the top 6,
 you just have to get yourselves organised  have a go and play with confidence, and we have enough players who can do that even if most of them were bought by Bruce and will not make the grade long term

so I agree with PWS im not giving him a bye for the rest of the season I want to see us play with that swagger again and get into those top 6 places 

Bruce took on a squad of players that were either signed that summer from the top of championship and bottom of the prem or who had come down with us but, in many cases, weren't as bad as they'd looked the year before. Where we had real problems was our central midfield was pedestrian and we couldn't stop teams running through us. 2 years on Smith has taken on a team that, despite numerous signings, still has the same weakness through midfield but also has no cover for 3 of the 4 defensive positions, leaving us in a shocking state to deal with injuries. Both inherited a decent set of attacking players, Bruce struggled to get a tune from any of them in any consistent way, Smith is getting loads of goals but just can't get a functional defence in place.

I have a lot more faith in Smith getting an improvement out of the defence (with a few signings) than I ever had with Bruce creating a consistent attacking platform for the forwards to build from. I've seen enough from us going forward to think we could break 100 goals in the league this year (about 2.5 a game for the rest of the season) so if we can get even a small improvement at the back we'll start to really frighten teams again, like we were a few weeks back.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on January 02, 2019, 05:36:15 AM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on January 01, 2019, 11:07:23 PM
Hull have somehow become the form team, W8 D3 L1, including 5 wins on the spin.

Just in time to play us!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Matt Collins on January 02, 2019, 08:25:53 AM
The thought of jarrod bowen against Hutton isn't worth thinking about

Maybe he'd decide to stick in his position though
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: old man villa fan on January 02, 2019, 09:42:26 AM
Quote from: footyskillz on January 01, 2019, 09:37:44 PM
Quote from: Fred Crump on January 01, 2019, 09:27:47 PM
Good grief. Give the bloke a break. He’s less than three months into the job , hasn’t yet had a transfer window, injuries to key players and we are still in with a good shout of the playoffs. How many of the critical posters above would feel happy being criticised in their jobs with similar constraints after that period of time , I wonder?

Think people who are giving a 3 month appraisal are perfectly right and healthy to on performance so far .

Injuries and unbalanced squad are taken into consideration by all , I believe , which comment here as we are all aware .

However it feels like some have head in clouds and that posters who even ' dare' give a critical performance observation and question are just told
" he hasn't been here long "
"It's not his squad"
"We have injuries"

I admire dean Smith as he doesn't use this as an excuse and I don't think ever would .
That's a massive plus about this coach.

He's working with what he's got and we are commenting on how he's working with what he's got.

Straightforward really.

I think we should be really critical of Dean Smith for allowing Grealish, Axel and Taylor to get injured.  In allowing this, the momentum, fluidity and confidence was stopped in its tracks because we hadn't got like for like players to bring in and, in some cases, players he should have brought in were injured or short of match fitness following injury.

The squad is paper thin in players that can influence games in the right way and drastically short of pace in midfield and defence.  To he'll with it, Smith is to blame for that too.

Now, I need to trawl the web ....... architect, Rome....
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sickbeggar on January 02, 2019, 10:13:28 AM
I just think sections of our support have unrealistic expectations and have done since we came down, We dumped RDM because he hadn't turned round the worst villa side in 40+ years in 3 months. Fine, so we got Bruce to get us up pronto. He didn't 1st season but fair enough give him time. 2nd season he built a play-off side by bringing in pl quality on loan and free transfers. We failed, they all went back to the PL or retired so we're stuck with an even worse side than the one he took over. Bruce tries the same trick again, it fails, he gets dumped. Now 2 months in on Smith arriving, people are moaning because we're not in a play-off position with a squad full of hasbeens and never will be's. Time to get in a promotion specialist in I reckon...……..
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on January 02, 2019, 11:16:18 AM
Quote from: paul_e on January 02, 2019, 12:04:17 AM
Quote from: john e on January 01, 2019, 10:30:18 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on January 01, 2019, 09:18:13 PM
Not finishing in the top 6 would be a failure.

If people were asking this of SB when he first took over in 16/17 it certainly should be asked for now.

yep I would agree,
Bruce didn't exactly take over a smooth running engine of a side and I said he should make the play offs at least in his first season
Smith had taken over a mish mash if a squad but I still feel he should be making the play offs

the reason being we arn't playing in some top quality league here, we are in the championship
QPR, Middlesbrough and fucking Birmingham City are above us
the sides above and around us are no better than us, we might have a toothless midfield without Grealish but it's still better than most

the general quality is poor, you don't have to be great to make it in the top 6,
 you just have to get yourselves organised  have a go and play with confidence, and we have enough players who can do that even if most of them were bought by Bruce and will not make the grade long term

so I agree with PWS im not giving him a bye for the rest of the season I want to see us play with that swagger again and get into those top 6 places 

Bruce took on a squad of players that were either signed that summer from the top of championship and bottom of the prem or who had come down with us but, in many cases, weren't as bad as they'd looked the year before. Where we had real problems was our central midfield was pedestrian and we couldn't stop teams running through us. 2 years on Smith has taken on a team that, despite numerous signings, still has the same weakness through midfield but also has no cover for 3 of the 4 defensive positions, leaving us in a shocking state to deal with injuries. Both inherited a decent set of attacking players, Bruce struggled to get a tune from any of them in any consistent way, Smith is getting loads of goals but just can't get a functional defence in place.

I have a lot more faith in Smith getting an improvement out of the defence (with a few signings) than I ever had with Bruce creating a consistent attacking platform for the forwards to build from. I've seen enough from us going forward to think we could break 100 goals in the league this year (about 2.5 a game for the rest of the season) so if we can get even a small improvement at the back we'll start to really frighten teams again, like we were a few weeks back.

Our squad in 16/17 was lopsided, not too far off what it is this season in fairness. We all thought at start of the season an attack of Ayew, Gestede, Jack, McCormack and Kodjia would rip through the division but it never happened and that was the strongest area of the squad by far.

At the back Elphick massively struggled so we went with Baker-Chester which was o.k in fairness. Gollini also struggled a fair bit so similar to Nyland.

Think the biggest difference was we still had a losing mentality running through the club at the time which resulted in our very slow start to that season.

I never expected play offs that year anyway. Now it's different as we know what this level is about and of course spent loads since.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on January 02, 2019, 11:54:55 AM
Quote from: old man villa fan on January 02, 2019, 09:42:26 AM
Quote from: footyskillz on January 01, 2019, 09:37:44 PM
Quote from: Fred Crump on January 01, 2019, 09:27:47 PM
Good grief. Give the bloke a break. He’s less than three months into the job , hasn’t yet had a transfer window, injuries to key players and we are still in with a good shout of the playoffs. How many of the critical posters above would feel happy being criticised in their jobs with similar constraints after that period of time , I wonder?

Think people who are giving a 3 month appraisal are perfectly right and healthy to on performance so far .

Injuries and unbalanced squad are taken into consideration by all , I believe , which comment here as we are all aware .

However it feels like some have head in clouds and that posters who even ' dare' give a critical performance observation and question are just told
" he hasn't been here long "
"It's not his squad"
"We have injuries"

I admire dean Smith as he doesn't use this as an excuse and I don't think ever would .
That's a massive plus about this coach.

He's working with what he's got and we are commenting on how he's working with what he's got.

Straightforward really.

I think we should be really critical of Dean Smith for allowing Grealish, Axel and Taylor to get injured.  In allowing this, the momentum, fluidity and confidence was stopped in its tracks because we hadn't got like for like players to bring in and, in some cases, players he should have brought in were injured or short of match fitness following injury.

The squad is paper thin in players that can influence games in the right way and drastically short of pace in midfield and defence.  To he'll with it, Smith is to blame for that too.

Now, I need to trawl the web ....... architect, Rome....

What about playing only one central striker when we current have a squad with striker options and there could be some felxibility in his system

What about using squad strengths or bringing in youth players to play in required positions.

What about sticking to his vision of collective responsibility in football and having different captains.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on January 02, 2019, 01:10:20 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on January 02, 2019, 11:16:18 AM
Our squad in 16/17 was lopsided, not too far off what it is this season in fairness. We all thought at start of the season an attack of Ayew, Gestede, Jack, McCormack and Kodjia would rip through the division but it never happened and that was the strongest area of the squad by far.

At the back Elphick massively struggled so we went with Baker-Chester which was o.k in fairness. Gollini also struggled a fair bit so similar to Nyland.

Think the biggest difference was we still had a losing mentality running through the club at the time which resulted in our very slow start to that season.

I never expected play offs that year anyway. Now it's different as we know what this level is about and of course spent loads since.

That attack should've been fine but a midfield of Westwood, Gardner, Tish and Jedinak was nothing like good enough to supply them. Of those 3 the only 1 with any mobility was Tish but he looked far too raw to play regularly meaning we played a combination of the other 3 and couldn't get any control of games. Everything was so slow that our attacking players were marked out of games.

The defence was nothing like as bad as it is now, Bruce took over a team that had conceded 12 in 11, plenty of teams get promotion with that. To go back to the previous point, the lack of presence in midfield meant teams could press on us late in games and we had no

The mentality side of things is a factor but I think a lot of people overstate it. Yes teams do come down and then struggle but that's usually because they're making the same mistakes (as a club) as they did the year before. Teams that accept relegation and start building for promotion in the last few games tend to do much better because they've accepted that they need to make changes. We, as a club, just threw a massive sulk for 2 months and then threw money around like confetti, forgetting that wasting money on older players was what caused all the problems in the first place.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on January 02, 2019, 01:44:12 PM
I wonder if Dean is wishing he'd stayed at Brentford ?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on January 02, 2019, 01:54:58 PM
yes, until he visits his local ATM.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on January 02, 2019, 02:14:34 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on January 02, 2019, 01:44:12 PM
I wonder if Dean is wishing he'd stayed at Brentford ?

If Sheff wed finish above villa or even get promoted then Smith would be questionned
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 02, 2019, 02:23:15 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on January 02, 2019, 01:44:12 PM
I wonder if Dean is wishing he'd stayed at Brentford ?


You’re not serious with that are you?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on January 02, 2019, 02:28:42 PM
Quote from: footyskillz on January 02, 2019, 02:14:34 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on January 02, 2019, 01:44:12 PM
I wonder if Dean is wishing he'd stayed at Brentford ?

If Sheff wed finish above villa or even get promoted then Smith would be questionned

I think there would be a queue of people lining up to be questioned before Smith if that happened. The Gambling Companies, Referees Association, EFL, Serious Crime Squad, the Archbishop of Canterbury and the Pope.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: robleflaneur on January 02, 2019, 02:35:11 PM
Why this negativity ? Under Bruce and Kmac we played one team above us now in the table,4-1 defeat at Sheff U.With Tammy under Bruce we won 1 game v Rotherham.
In the last 11 games,the majority played against  teams currently above us,we have lost once.The lopsided nature of the squad is being addressed.Having Dean Smith is far better than having Bruce with Tammy in the side.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: old man villa fan on January 02, 2019, 02:35:17 PM
Quote from: footyskillz on January 02, 2019, 11:54:55 AM
Quote from: old man villa fan on January 02, 2019, 09:42:26 AM
Quote from: footyskillz on January 01, 2019, 09:37:44 PM
Quote from: Fred Crump on January 01, 2019, 09:27:47 PM
Good grief. Give the bloke a break. He’s less than three months into the job , hasn’t yet had a transfer window, injuries to key players and we are still in with a good shout of the playoffs. How many of the critical posters above would feel happy being criticised in their jobs with similar constraints after that period of time , I wonder?

Think people who are giving a 3 month appraisal are perfectly right and healthy to on performance so far .

Injuries and unbalanced squad are taken into consideration by all , I believe , which comment here as we are all aware .

However it feels like some have head in clouds and that posters who even ' dare' give a critical performance observation and question are just told
" he hasn't been here long "
"It's not his squad"
"We have injuries"

I admire dean Smith as he doesn't use this as an excuse and I don't think ever would .
That's a massive plus about this coach.

He's working with what he's got and we are commenting on how he's working with what he's got.

Straightforward really.

I think we should be really critical of Dean Smith for allowing Grealish, Axel and Taylor to get injured.  In allowing this, the momentum, fluidity and confidence was stopped in its tracks because we hadn't got like for like players to bring in and, in some cases, players he should have brought in were injured or short of match fitness following injury.

The squad is paper thin in players that can influence games in the right way and drastically short of pace in midfield and defence.  To he'll with it, Smith is to blame for that too.

Now, I need to trawl the web ....... architect, Rome....

What about playing only one central striker when we current have a squad with striker options and there could be some felxibility in his system

What about using squad strengths or bringing in youth players to play in required positions.

What about sticking to his vision of collective responsibility in football and having different captains.

What about looking at the three positions where we have lost so much influence and how we replace those players effectively, rather than running away from the problems that are staring us in the face.

What squad strength do we have to replace Grealish. Our squad strength has meant a totally inexperienced player in that position coming in to replace Axel.  Our squad strength has meant Hutton having to go to left back because we have no other left back.  Which young players that were not injured could have been brought in.

Who else that holds down a consistent place in the side warrants being captain. To be honest, don't think even Chester has a strong enough personality to be captain.

Two up top with similar players of Abraham and Kodjia rarely works. Two up top needs to be of contrasting styles.

I have watched enough football over the years to recognise balanced teams where each player offers something in a progressive way without being a liability at the other end of the pitch. Football is a team game and each part of the team is important in making the team work.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Matt Collins on January 02, 2019, 03:10:50 PM
There are valid questions to be asked

But the negativity on this site and thread is ridiculous

There was a clear consensus we wanted Smith to deliver a longer term transition. We've already had an insight into what a Smith team can do. A few dodgy games amid an injury crisis, where we still only lost once, and the pessimism is way over the top

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 02, 2019, 03:14:34 PM
Quote from: Matt Collins on January 02, 2019, 03:10:50 PM
There are valid questions to be asked

But the negativity on this site and thread is ridiculous

There was a clear consensus we wanted Smith to deliver a longer term transition. We've already had an insight into what a Smith team can do. A few dodgy games amid an injury crisis, where we still only lost once, and the pessimism is way over the top



I agree Matt. He swings in mood are incredible. I get that after Preston and QPR we shouldn’t be happy but it’s not like the league is about to end. We’re still 5 points back of the playoffs, 1/2 season to go, a whole transfer window in front of us. Players come and go. Our still new manager need to create a squad and team in his own image. That might not ultimately include Tammy Abraham. But it’s not the end of the world. He built a side at Brentford from great scouting and a dedication to a style of play over many seasons. It just won’t happen with us over three months.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: old man villa fan on January 02, 2019, 03:17:50 PM
Quote from: Matt Collins on January 02, 2019, 03:10:50 PM
There are valid questions to be asked

But the negativity on this site and thread is ridiculous

There was a clear consensus we wanted Smith to deliver a longer term transition. We've already had an insight into what a Smith team can do. A few dodgy games amid an injury crisis, where we still only lost once, and the pessimism is way over the top

Agreed.

I do not get the "I have to be first in saying something/somebody is no good".
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on January 02, 2019, 03:23:05 PM
We've had a few poor performances and it's become clear things aren't going to be as easy as they looked in Smiths first few games. 

Some of the praise during the good run was a bit daft, but he hasn't become a bad manager overnight and I'm still massively excited to see what he can achieve with this team over the next few years.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Matt Collins on January 02, 2019, 03:59:20 PM
If people bought into the concept of a period of transition, what did they think it would look like, if not some spells where we look great and others where it isn't working so well?

We're not getting pumped every week
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 02, 2019, 04:03:59 PM
I've used this analogy before but it's like improving your golf game. If you've ever been for lessons the first few you realize how absolutely shit your swing actually is. Then over time the coach tries to fix that and stop you from repeating all of the bad habits that you have committed to over many years. The transition period is terrible because you try the new swing and your game initially gets worse and you want to go back to the old way. So you have this internal fight not to go back to it (see pumping it long vs QPR as exhibit A in Villa terms). But over time as you keep going back to the coach and keep working on the new swing it starts to bed in and over time your game improves.

We simply have to get through the transition period from Bruce call to what Dean Smith wants to do long term. It's not going to be pretty all the time.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on January 02, 2019, 04:15:36 PM
People may not want to critically appraise the here and now or just give Smith a free pass .

That's ok but as I say it's ok too , to be able to question or debate the current situation

Unfortunately Tammy Abrahams leaving will be added to the list of facts (excuses) to shield any comment on questioning Deano by some

Like all coaches Smith is on probation .

It would be nice , fair and reasonable for people to at least wonder in debate and discussion on aspects of performance of coaches JT and O'Kelly.

I guess we are looking time frames.
That can be fair as people have different out look.

I think it would be good if JT had managed to install some defence toughness and rigidity by now.

The December run saw 3-0 wins against Derby and Boro which were outstanding results and against Boro a super 90 min performance.
Versus Derby second half very strong showing.

But something happened after the 2-2 draw with wba . A match should have won.

For me since then things haven't been so good in performance let alone results.

It also seems system more suited to playing away than at home.

Yet again I say I take all into account the issues and constraints nevertheless the playing style , ball retention at times has been poor.

The defending and covering woeful. 

I do see it really as a work in progress and transition but at the moment seems that rely on attack to win match out right rather than the whole team play .

Hopefully things go better as knit together the ideas and play as at times under Smith we have been magnificent and played unbelievable football scoring sublime goals but also being involved in dramatic hectic matches.

There is a need for things to be addressed so am just waiting really to see if this happens.
In mean time will comment and provide observation on current play, performance in the fairest , thoughtful way . A way in which progress and what is both positive and what needs commenting on .

Up the villa
 




Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on January 02, 2019, 04:20:51 PM
I have every confidence in Dean Smith because I genuinely believe he wants to be a good manager.  Bruce only wants to be a wealthy one.  Dean will make mistakes, plenty of them, all careers are rocked by them, but he will overcome them and he will take us where we want to be.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on January 02, 2019, 04:21:49 PM
Quote from: Matt Collins on January 02, 2019, 03:10:50 PM
There are valid questions to be asked

But the negativity on this site and thread is ridiculous

There was a clear consensus we wanted Smith to deliver a longer term transition. We've already had an insight into what a Smith team can do. A few dodgy games amid an injury crisis, where we still only lost once, and the pessimism is way over the top



Which posts in this thread do you think are ridiculously negative?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on January 02, 2019, 04:28:15 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on January 02, 2019, 02:23:15 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on January 02, 2019, 01:44:12 PM
I wonder if Dean is wishing he'd stayed at Brentford ?


You’re not serious with that are you?
Yes I am - it's just a question not a statement - at Brentford he will have been well paid with some pressure - I should imagine he is receiving a higher salary but with much bigger expectations - he has made a positive difference  already but appears to be under early pressure from some of our fan base- like most professions, the higher the rewards the greater the pressure - it doesn't suit all of us
Just because he is "one of us" doesn't make him immune from undue criticism and unwarranted pressure
I just hope he as positive a character as he makes out and like all of us on here hope he is successful - we all need to be extremely patient and see the " bigger picture "
We  could do with some positive news - something missing since the final minutes of the Baggies game or the victory at Swansea




Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on January 02, 2019, 04:30:30 PM
Quote from: brian green on January 02, 2019, 04:20:51 PM
I have every confidence in Dean Smith because I genuinely believe he wants to be a good manager.  Bruce only wants to be a wealthy one.  Dean will make mistakes, plenty of them, all careers are rocked by them, but he will overcome them and he will take us where we want to be.
I think comments like this are just daft.  I'm not defending his record at Villa, but do you honestly think Bruce didn't want to be a good manager? 



Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on January 02, 2019, 04:31:26 PM
he needs to bring some of his own players in who can play the way he wants

I’m sure we’ll be ok then

I’m still hoping he can make a silk purse out if what we have now that’s good enough for the play offs mind
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on January 02, 2019, 04:33:15 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on January 02, 2019, 04:30:30 PM
Quote from: brian green on January 02, 2019, 04:20:51 PM
I have every confidence in Dean Smith because I genuinely believe he wants to be a good manager.  Bruce only wants to be a wealthy one.  Dean will make mistakes, plenty of them, all careers are rocked by them, but he will overcome them and he will take us where we want to be.
I think comments like this are just daft.  I'm not defending his record at Villa, but do you honestly think Bruce didn't want to be a good manager? 





Yes, I agree, absolute nonsense.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on January 02, 2019, 04:34:17 PM
Quote from: Drummond on January 02, 2019, 02:28:42 PM
Quote from: footyskillz on January 02, 2019, 02:14:34 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on January 02, 2019, 01:44:12 PM
I wonder if Dean is wishing he'd stayed at Brentford ?

If Sheff wed finish above villa or even get promoted then Smith would be questionned

I think there would be a queue of people lining up to be questioned before Smith if that happened. The Gambling Companies, Referees Association, EFL, Serious Crime Squad, the Archbishop of Canterbury and the Pope.
I would also suggest DNA testing to identify the true identity of the newly appointed Sheffield Wednesday manager
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on January 02, 2019, 04:39:38 PM
Quote from: old man villa fan on January 02, 2019, 02:35:17 PM
Quote from: footyskillz on January 02, 2019, 11:54:55 AM
Quote from: old man villa fan on January 02, 2019, 09:42:26 AM
Quote from: footyskillz on January 01, 2019, 09:37:44 PM
Quote from: Fred Crump on January 01, 2019, 09:27:47 PM
Good grief. Give the bloke a break. He’s less than three months into the job , hasn’t yet had a transfer window, injuries to key players and we are still in with a good shout of the playoffs. How many of the critical posters above would feel happy being criticised in their jobs with similar constraints after that period of time , I wonder?

Think people who are giving a 3 month appraisal are perfectly right and healthy to on performance so far .

Injuries and unbalanced squad are taken into consideration by all , I believe , which comment here as we are all aware .

However it feels like some have head in clouds and that posters who even ' dare' give a critical performance observation and question are just told
" he hasn't been here long "
"It's not his squad"
"We have injuries"

I admire dean Smith as he doesn't use this as an excuse and I don't think ever would .
That's a massive plus about this coach.

He's working with what he's got and we are commenting on how he's working with what he's got.

Straightforward really.

I think we should be really critical of Dean Smith for allowing Grealish, Axel and Taylor to get injured.  In allowing this, the momentum, fluidity and confidence was stopped in its tracks because we hadn't got like for like players to bring in and, in some cases, players he should have brought in were injured or short of match fitness following injury.

The squad is paper thin in players that can influence games in the right way and drastically short of pace in midfield and defence.  To he'll with it, Smith is to blame for that too.

Now, I need to trawl the web ....... architect, Rome....

What about playing only one central striker when we current have a squad with striker options and there could be some felxibility in his system

What about using squad strengths or bringing in youth players to play in required positions.

What about sticking to his vision of collective responsibility in football and having different captains.

What about looking at the three positions where we have lost so much influence and how we replace those players effectively, rather than running away from the problems that are staring us in the face.

What squad strength do we have to replace Grealish. Our squad strength has meant a totally inexperienced player in that position coming in to replace Axel.  Our squad strength has meant Hutton having to go to left back because we have no other left back.  Which young players that were not injured could have been brought in.

Who else that holds down a consistent place in the side warrants being captain. To be honest, don't think even Chester has a strong enough personality to be captain.

Two up top with similar players of Abraham and Kodjia rarely works. Two up top needs to be of contrasting styles.

I have watched enough football over the years to recognise balanced teams where each player offers something in a progressive way without being a liability at the other end of the pitch. Football is a team game and each part of the team is important in making the team work.

Firstly new year's wishes !
Second I will try once more as we seem to misunderstanding my points .

I 100 take into consideration what you're saying .

On the points I'm wishing to discuss, flag up , concern are where I think misunderstood.

In last two home matches we did not win and had 3 strikers available on the bench
Dean Smith coaches team did not look to play two strikers up top to pressure opposition back line in final minutes of match.

For all our injuries villa were unable to beat a thread bare Preston team after taking the lead.

Villa have lead in matches and dropped points continuous theme.

Squad Strengths- El Ghazhi as number 10 next to Hourihane (if he had too!) Whilst Grealish is out.

Mcginn deep lying midfielder.

Regards Captain - the point here is people get given opportunity to be captain.
It's looking at it as players having a chance to be leaders and not followers.
It's not for saying "I don't see captains in that team"
It's about developing and the collective responsibility to give an ethos of leading
I'm very disappointed Dean Smith did not see this through at Villa as he talked of this at Brentford and in football about believing this way.

We support the same club
We dream the same dream

Certainly don't wish to annoy you !

I just hoped I could feel comfortable making critical analysis and debating comments without feeling dismissed or ridiculed that I must be daft or silly to even have an opinion in saying some times things must be questionned despite early tenure .

That all it was and is.
All ever will be .

Fair comments to you and what you're saying.
I have considered them of course however I was talking about what's happening in matches , what's happening with squad with the UNDERSTANDING that he's new to job and the injuries

My issue really is that I like Smith to be a success and pointing out things which I chose to point out .

Anyway as I say have a great 2019 watching villa , posting on here and everything else !

I hope it's ok if we just move on for now until next match

Thanks though for writing and replying I get what you're saying 

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: berneboy on January 02, 2019, 04:41:51 PM
I'm frustrated but probably not half as much as Deano.
And I've been at the Villa when fans have turned to each other in delight and amazement at the excitement of goals.
I'll remember the Forest game a long time and even enjoyed the qpr game despite the dreadful approach of the visitors.

I love watching again.

And given time I feel certain Deano will get us promoted.

P.S. we really need Jack back - he transforms the team. If he is long term injured or leaves we need a clever passer without which our dangerous wingers are playing with an arm (or leg!) tied behind their back.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on January 02, 2019, 04:43:16 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on January 02, 2019, 04:30:30 PM
Quote from: brian green on January 02, 2019, 04:20:51 PM
I have every confidence in Dean Smith because I genuinely believe he wants to be a good manager.  Bruce only wants to be a wealthy one.  Dean will make mistakes, plenty of them, all careers are rocked by them, but he will overcome them and he will take us where we want to be.
I think comments like this are just daft.  I'm not defending his record at Villa, but do you honestly think Bruce didn't want to be a good manager?

This is what I mean by head in clouds.
And people being swooned by Smith

I'm sorry that's really unfair comment regards comparing these 2 yet you're entitled to your view on both Bruce and Smith .

Our owners have played a (peaky) blinder having Deano in as he can do no wrong to some!
And a clever part of reason he's appointed he get the opposite to cabbage being thrown at him

It's keeping the fans happy with Smith and I think he will and does just comments like that make me wonder if some villa fans would have him whatever happens

Blinded by the love !


Where's the face palm emoji!!!

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 02, 2019, 05:03:30 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on January 02, 2019, 04:28:15 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on January 02, 2019, 02:23:15 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on January 02, 2019, 01:44:12 PM
I wonder if Dean is wishing he'd stayed at Brentford ?


You’re not serious with that are you?
Yes I am - it's just a question not a statement - at Brentford he will have been well paid with some pressure - I should imagine he is receiving a higher salary but with much bigger expectations - he has made a positive difference  already but appears to be under early pressure from some of our fan base- like most professions, the higher the rewards the greater the pressure - it doesn't suit all of us
Just because he is "one of us" doesn't make him immune from undue criticism and unwarranted pressure
I just hope he as positive a character as he makes out and like all of us on here hope he is successful - we all need to be extremely patient and see the " bigger picture "
We  could do with some positive news - something missing since the final minutes of the Baggies game or the victory at Swansea






How much pressure from our fan base is he under other than a few internet warriors questioning him after three months? We are selling out away games, close to selling out most home games. And while we are not winning every week, we're not losing. We are 5 points off the play offs despite what most would consider some disappointing recent results. So it's not like the form of everyone above us significantly better than ours. Also most fans I believe understand the transition part of this coupled with the key injuries and that is why he is getting very publicly almost overwhelming support.

He's in a great job at a big club with huge expectations. It's exactly what he signed up for and with a transfer window in front of him he'll have more resources to fix this than he has ever had before. The club just lashed out 7m on a keeper. Did he ever spend anything close to that in a window at Brentford?

I'm sure he's frustrated with a lot of things as he works through being in a new job. I would take your money (I have none) and bet it all that he doesn't regret this for one second.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on January 02, 2019, 05:08:09 PM
he’s not had one single window yet
and I’m sure he’ll be backed if he can be (ffp)

I still look forward to every game expecting great things not always getting them but I’m still confident we are heading in the right direction
which is the opposite to what I’ve been feeling like over the last few years
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on January 02, 2019, 05:28:52 PM
May be bringing in a centre back from our friends in the North West of the Midlands - Hause prices are lower in Wolverhapton
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on January 02, 2019, 06:20:57 PM
He's in a cul-de-sac selection wise at the moment. Seeing Hourihane and Whelan near the midfield fills me with dread, as both are apart of why we're so sluggish and slow in transition.

More and more I feel the midfield is just as culpable for our woes; Ezie chance where Hourihane follows him and gets nowhere near, the ease they moved through midfield for the first and Bree having to track the midfield runner and being out of position. It's pathetic.

But I'm not sure how I'd shuffle us any differently. The poor form is legacy stuff.

Hutton at left back
Chester injures
Hourihane/Whelan deep

It's too much to carry. Going forwards we're always a threat. I'm still confident for the play offs, as I think we'll improve in key positions.

Tammy would be a loss, but it happens.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on January 02, 2019, 06:28:38 PM
Quote from: Ads on January 02, 2019, 06:20:57 PM
He's in a cul-de-sac selection wise at the moment. Seeing Hourihane and Whelan near the midfield fills me with dread, as both are apart of why we're so sluggish and slow in transition.

More and more I feel the midfield is just as culpable for our woes; Ezie chance where Hourihane follows him and gets nowhere near, the ease they moved through midfield for the first and Bree having to track the midfield runner and being out of position. It's pathetic.

But I'm not sure how I'd shuffle us any differently. The poor form is legacy stuff.

Hutton at left back
Chester injures
Hourihane/Whelan deep

It's too much to carry. Going forwards we're always a threat. I'm still confident for the play offs, as I think we'll improve in key positions.

Tammy would be a loss, but it happens.

As I've said a few times I'd rather have seen one of the kids play in midfield in the last few weeks since Grealish got injured. Might not have made a difference to the results and they might have struggled just as much but at least they'd be learning what first team football is about and finding things to work on in their game. Whelan is too old to learn anything and Hourihane will never be a defensive midfielder, he just can't read play well enough.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on January 02, 2019, 06:33:21 PM
I defend my point about Bruce putting his own material success before the success of the teams he managed.  Bearing in mind  how many apologists he had in these pages it does not surprise me that I should be attacked for suggesting that he did not apply himself with sufficient energy or commitments to his responsibilities especially arch apologist Clampy who will never pass up an opportunity to attack me.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on January 02, 2019, 06:46:15 PM
Quote from: brian green on January 02, 2019, 06:33:21 PM
I defend my point about Bruce putting his own material success before the success of the teams he managed.  Bearing in mind  how many apologists he had in these pages it does not surprise me that I should be attacked for suggesting that he did not apply himself with sufficient energy or commitments to his responsibilities especially arch apologist Clampy who will never pass up an opportunity to attack me.

Oh for heavens sake Brian, stop being such a bloody drama queen. I'm disagreeing with the point you made, not because it's you. Your not that important.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on January 02, 2019, 06:54:14 PM
Which youngster though? Doyle-Hayes is who I'd like to see but he's been ill and injured, as has O'Hare. But their development has been curtailed too with no loans.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on January 02, 2019, 06:54:49 PM
I largely agree with Brian, if a manager was genuinely bothered about being the best he could be in the job he'd make a effort to keep up to date and he wouldn't come out with bullshit excuses when things don't work out.

If not all about the money then he was at least lazy and unprofessional.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on January 02, 2019, 06:56:02 PM
Quote from: Ads on January 02, 2019, 06:54:14 PM
Which youngster though? Doyle-Hayes is who I'd like to see but he's been ill and injured, as has O'Hare. But their development has been curtailed too with no loans.

JDH is the obvious choice but, as I've said a number of times, I really like Jack Clarke as well and I suspect he's better suited to the role that Smith wants in front of the defence.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: stuart445 on January 02, 2019, 07:19:19 PM
Quote from: paul_e on January 02, 2019, 01:10:20 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on January 02, 2019, 11:16:18 AM
Our squad in 16/17 was lopsided, not too far off what it is this season in fairness. We all thought at start of the season an attack of Ayew, Gestede, Jack, McCormack and Kodjia would rip through the division but it never happened and that was the strongest area of the squad by far.

At the back Elphick massively struggled so we went with Baker-Chester which was o.k in fairness. Gollini also struggled a fair bit so similar to Nyland.

Think the biggest difference was we still had a losing mentality running through the club at the time which resulted in our very slow start to that season.

I never expected play offs that year anyway. Now it's different as we know what this level is about and of course spent loads since.

That attack should've been fine but a midfield of Westwood, Gardner, Tish and Jedinak was nothing like good enough to supply them. Of those 3 the only 1 with any mobility was Tish but he looked far too raw to play regularly meaning we played a combination of the other 3 and couldn't get any control of games. Everything was so slow that our attacking players were marked out of games.

The defence was nothing like as bad as it is now, Bruce took over a team that had conceded 12 in 11, plenty of teams get promotion with that. To go back to the previous point, the lack of presence in midfield meant teams could press on us late in games and we had no

The mentality side of things is a factor but I think a lot of people overstate it. Yes teams do come down and then struggle but that's usually because they're making the same mistakes (as a club) as they did the year before. Teams that accept relegation and start building for promotion in the last few games tend to do much better because they've accepted that they need to make changes. We, as a club, just threw a massive sulk for 2 months and then threw money around like confetti, forgetting that wasting money on older players was what caused all the problems in the first place.

The mentality was overstated?? When we 1at came down under RDM the only thing that had changed from the relegation season was the quality of the opposition. Which meant instead of losing we were drawing.

Bruce had to come in and get a club that had forgotten how to win (Before Bruce the only team we beat was the leagues whipping boys) and turn us into a team that could win. But that's easy isn't I think people underestimate how difficult it is to change the how mentality of a whole club.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: stuart445 on January 02, 2019, 07:37:59 PM
Quote from: Clampy on January 02, 2019, 06:46:15 PM
Quote from: brian green on January 02, 2019, 06:33:21 PM
I defend my point about Bruce putting his own material success before the success of the teams he managed.  Bearing in mind  how many apologists he had in these pages it does not surprise me that I should be attacked for suggesting that he did not apply himself with sufficient energy or commitments to his responsibilities especially arch apologist Clampy who will never pass up an opportunity to attack me.

Oh for heavens sake Brian, stop being such a bloody drama queen. I'm disagreeing with the point you made, not because it's you. Your not that important.

No point getting into a debate with the Bruce haters who would have still be having a pop at Bruce if we'd have won the playoff final.

The concern I have about Smith is that he comes with the same reputation as Lambert did and look what happened to him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on January 02, 2019, 07:58:22 PM
I don't understand the logic of the 2nd paragraph at all.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: robleflaneur on January 02, 2019, 08:10:39 PM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 02, 2019, 07:37:59 PM
Quote from: Clampy on January 02, 2019, 06:46:15 PM
Quote from: brian green on January 02, 2019, 06:33:21 PM
I defend my point about Bruce putting his own material success before the success of the teams he managed.  Bearing in mind  how many apologists he had in these pages it does not surprise me that I should be attacked for suggesting that he did not apply himself with sufficient energy or commitments to his responsibilities especially arch apologist Clampy who will never pass up an opportunity to attack me.

Oh for heavens sake Brian, stop being such a bloody drama queen. I'm disagreeing with the point you made, not because it's you. Your not that important.

No point getting into a debate with the Bruce haters who would have still be having a pop at Bruce if we'd have won the playoff final.

The concern I have about Smith is that he comes with the same reputation as Lambert did and look what happened to him.
I think Bruce might not have lasted much longer if we'd have won the play off final.
Bruce pitting his wits against the other Premier League bosses would not have been a pretty sight.
 We shouldn't be worried about precedence.Didn't SGT and Big Ron have massive reputations when they came ?A manager who establishes a good record at his clubs and has a good reputation for coaching is a better bet than the experience that Pardew,Pulis,McCarthy and Hughes could offer.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Tayls_7 on January 02, 2019, 08:10:49 PM
Brian was immediately disparaging of the Bruce appointment. From my perspective it seemed he felt at that point we should remove ourselves from the sort term fix managerial merry-go-round and look towards a longer term plan.  He was certainly right in that regard. No question.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on January 02, 2019, 09:10:37 PM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 02, 2019, 07:19:19 PM
Quote from: paul_e on January 02, 2019, 01:10:20 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on January 02, 2019, 11:16:18 AM
Our squad in 16/17 was lopsided, not too far off what it is this season in fairness. We all thought at start of the season an attack of Ayew, Gestede, Jack, McCormack and Kodjia would rip through the division but it never happened and that was the strongest area of the squad by far.

At the back Elphick massively struggled so we went with Baker-Chester which was o.k in fairness. Gollini also struggled a fair bit so similar to Nyland.

Think the biggest difference was we still had a losing mentality running through the club at the time which resulted in our very slow start to that season.

I never expected play offs that year anyway. Now it's different as we know what this level is about and of course spent loads since.

That attack should've been fine but a midfield of Westwood, Gardner, Tish and Jedinak was nothing like good enough to supply them. Of those 3 the only 1 with any mobility was Tish but he looked far too raw to play regularly meaning we played a combination of the other 3 and couldn't get any control of games. Everything was so slow that our attacking players were marked out of games.

The defence was nothing like as bad as it is now, Bruce took over a team that had conceded 12 in 11, plenty of teams get promotion with that. To go back to the previous point, the lack of presence in midfield meant teams could press on us late in games and we had no

The mentality side of things is a factor but I think a lot of people overstate it. Yes teams do come down and then struggle but that's usually because they're making the same mistakes (as a club) as they did the year before. Teams that accept relegation and start building for promotion in the last few games tend to do much better because they've accepted that they need to make changes. We, as a club, just threw a massive sulk for 2 months and then threw money around like confetti, forgetting that wasting money on older players was what caused all the problems in the first place.

The mentality was overstated?? When we 1at came down under RDM the only thing that had changed from the relegation season was the quality of the opposition. Which meant instead of losing we were drawing.

Bruce had to come in and get a club that had forgotten how to win (Before Bruce the only team we beat was the leagues whipping boys) and turn us into a team that could win. But that's easy isn't I think people underestimate how difficult it is to change the how mentality of a whole club.

And this is a perfect example of how it's overstated, we'd forgotten how to win and he had to change the whole mentality of the club, if that's true then we shouldn't have sacked RDM and he hadn't done all that bad a job to turn defeats into draws and we were already on the right path.

I like that you've used "Before Bruce the only team we beat was the leagues whipping boys" in talking about a manager who thought it was acceptable to give the fans shit after a victory over the exact same team.

Individuals can have a confidence issue, a management structure can have fundamental issues, a club that has replaced everyone more senior than a teaboy and spent a fucking fortune on the best part of a new squad doesn't have confidence issues because the same club was relegated the season before, linking the 2 is just an easy explanation for people who can't be bothered to look at the real issues. It's actually exactly the sort of shit I'd expect from people like Wyness and Bruce.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sickbeggar on January 02, 2019, 09:17:15 PM
Quote from: Tayls_7 on January 02, 2019, 08:10:49 PM
Brian was immediately disparaging of the Bruce appointment. From my perspective it seemed he felt at that point we should remove ourselves from the sort term fix managerial merry-go-round and look towards a longer term plan.  He was certainly right in that regard. No question.

Yep. For those of us that didn't want him its hard not to see  his 2 years in charge as just wasted time.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: West Derby Villan on January 03, 2019, 12:18:59 AM
Quote from: sickbeggar on January 02, 2019, 09:17:15 PM
Quote from: Tayls_7 on January 02, 2019, 08:10:49 PM
Brian was immediately disparaging of the Bruce appointment. From my perspective it seemed he felt at that point we should remove ourselves from the sort term fix managerial merry-go-round and look towards a longer term plan.  He was certainly right in that regard. No question.

Yep. For those of us that didn't want him its hard not to see  his 2 years in charge as just wasted time.

I'm sorry but in my opinion Steve Bruce steadied a sinking ship. The fans didn't like or respect the players, the players didn't respect the fans and the management were just amateurs clutching at straws. Steve Bruce came in and halted the decline, whether by design or not, we are in a better place as a club since he came in. We were in the same boat as Sunderland don't forget and look what happened to them! As much as Steve Bruce's last months disappointed us all let's not forget it could have been so much worse.
Dean Smith is a coach who wants to learn and he's one of us, so the pressure is almost personal. He is the type of appointment most of us have wanted for many years, we have to show patience and support. This bloke has the same love, passion and ambition for our beloved club that we all have. UTV
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 03, 2019, 04:47:31 AM
Quote from: paul_e on January 02, 2019, 06:54:49 PM
I largely agree with Brian, if a manager was genuinely bothered about being the best he could be in the job he'd make a effort to keep up to date and he wouldn't come out with bullshit excuses when things don't work out.

If not all about the money then he was at least lazy and unprofessional.
He would also know if a significant opposition player was available or not.
He would turn up at the training ground more than once a week.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KevinGage on January 03, 2019, 06:29:27 AM
I wouldn't have been as emphatic as Mr Green, but I get where he is coming from.

Bruce is a stodgy 'this is the way I have always done it' merchant, Smith at least appears intellectually curious and wants to push on.

It would be wrong to dismiss the upside we had with Bruce - a little over 12 months ago we were just about to embark on a run that got us comfortably in the play-offs and gave us a chance at one point of the automatics. Away to Ipswich, Sheff Wed and Sunderland and the hammerings dished out to Bristol City and Wolves were some of the better days we've had since 2010.

But reading the comments of Sunderland fans on this Wednesday link and it sounds very familiar. He'll spend a heap of money, fail and blame someone else being the gist of it. And opting for Wednesday with his Sheff U connections gives him an immediate get out of jail card when it all starts to go tits up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TheMalandro on January 03, 2019, 08:43:27 AM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 02, 2019, 07:37:59 PM
Quote from: Clampy on January 02, 2019, 06:46:15 PM
Quote from: brian green on January 02, 2019, 06:33:21 PM
I defend my point about Bruce putting his own material success before the success of the teams he managed.  Bearing in mind  how many apologists he had in these pages it does not surprise me that I should be attacked for suggesting that he did not apply himself with sufficient energy or commitments to his responsibilities especially arch apologist Clampy who will never pass up an opportunity to attack me.

Oh for heavens sake Brian, stop being such a bloody drama queen. I'm disagreeing with the point you made, not because it's you. Your not that important.

No point getting into a debate with the Bruce haters who would have still be having a pop at Bruce if we'd have won the playoff final.

When you’ve been proved wrong, just add a few what ifs in there.
Stabilise is one of the last words I’d associate with Bruce’s  reign.

Thank god the misery of Bruce football is gone.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: stuart445 on January 03, 2019, 10:08:26 AM
Quote from: paul_e on January 02, 2019, 09:10:37 PM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 02, 2019, 07:19:19 PM
Quote from: paul_e on January 02, 2019, 01:10:20 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on January 02, 2019, 11:16:18 AM
Our squad in 16/17 was lopsided, not too far off what it is this season in fairness. We all thought at start of the season an attack of Ayew, Gestede, Jack, McCormack and Kodjia would rip through the division but it never happened and that was the strongest area of the squad by far.

At the back Elphick massively struggled so we went with Baker-Chester which was o.k in fairness. Gollini also struggled a fair bit so similar to Nyland.

Think the biggest difference was we still had a losing mentality running through the club at the time which resulted in our very slow start to that season.

I never expected play offs that year anyway. Now it's different as we know what this level is about and of course spent loads since.

That attack should've been fine but a midfield of Westwood, Gardner, Tish and Jedinak was nothing like good enough to supply them. Of those 3 the only 1 with any mobility was Tish but he looked far too raw to play regularly meaning we played a combination of the other 3 and couldn't get any control of games. Everything was so slow that our attacking players were marked out of games.

The defence was nothing like as bad as it is now, Bruce took over a team that had conceded 12 in 11, plenty of teams get promotion with that. To go back to the previous point, the lack of presence in midfield meant teams could press on us late in games and we had no

The mentality side of things is a factor but I think a lot of people overstate it. Yes teams do come down and then struggle but that's usually because they're making the same mistakes (as a club) as they did the year before. Teams that accept relegation and start building for promotion in the last few games tend to do much better because they've accepted that they need to make changes. We, as a club, just threw a massive sulk for 2 months and then threw money around like confetti, forgetting that wasting money on older players was what caused all the problems in the first place.

The mentality was overstated?? When we 1at came down under RDM the only thing that had changed from the relegation season was the quality of the opposition. Which meant instead of losing we were drawing.

Bruce had to come in and get a club that had forgotten how to win (Before Bruce the only team we beat was the leagues whipping boys) and turn us into a team that could win. But that's easy isn't I think people underestimate how difficult it is to change the how mentality of a whole club.

And this is a perfect example of how it's overstated, we'd forgotten how to win and he had to change the whole mentality of the club, if that's true then we shouldn't have sacked RDM and he hadn't done all that bad a job to turn defeats into draws and we were already on the right path.

I like that you've used "Before Bruce the only team we beat was the leagues whipping boys" in talking about a manager who thought it was acceptable to give the fans shit after a victory over the exact same team.

Individuals can have a confidence issue, a management structure can have fundamental issues, a club that has replaced everyone more senior than a teaboy and spent a fucking fortune on the best part of a new squad doesn't have confidence issues because the same club was relegated the season before, linking the 2 is just an easy explanation for people who can't be bothered to look at the real issues. It's actually exactly the sort of shit I'd expect from people like Wyness and Bruce.

Before Bruce came in we had won 4 games in 49..... You're right we had no problem winning games did we.

You can keep talking crap about it being over stated but 4 wins in 49 are the facts, but why let facts get in the way of the crap you talk
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on January 03, 2019, 11:26:53 AM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 03, 2019, 10:08:26 AM
Before Bruce came in we had won 4 games in 49..... You're right we had no problem winning games did we.

You can keep talking crap about it being over stated but 4 wins in 49 are the facts, but why let facts get in the way of the crap you talk

38 of those games were under different management, in a different league, after which we had a huge change in staff at all levels so the idea that all the new people under completely new management had a hangover from the season before and needed Bruce to come in and turn things around is, as I said, massively overstated by the people who were desperate to defend him.

What he actually gave us was a new manager bounce, no one argues over that, but after his first 7-8 games we went on a run of 1 win in 10 that's not the ship steadying turn-around you're desperate to give him credit for. Once he replaced the midfield and they got a few games under their belts we looked a far better team and from there on we were decent, which is exactly what I said, he inherited a team which had a non-functioning midfield.

As I said before, a huge part of the problem was that we made so many changes in the summer, many after the season had started, and hadn't done anything like enough work to form a team out of the squad we had, which, again as I said, was just a case of us repeating the same mistakes that had gotten us relegated in the first place.

If a team is relegated with awful morale and keeps most of that unit together without addressing the morale issues then they can, as Sunderland did, drop straight through but the circumstances were nothing like that.

Aside from that I'm not completely dismissing the need to address some aspects of the culture but that's true for almost every new manager at any club and is why you often get a new manager bounce.

What I refuse to give credit for is this idea that Bruce stabilised us, he did nothing of the sort, he put us into a cycle of short-term shit or bust football which is why 2 years on, with him having left, we have most of the same issues, with the addition of him gutting the defence.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 03, 2019, 11:33:54 AM
Spot on Paul-e.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: stuart445 on January 03, 2019, 11:54:31 AM
Quote from: paul_e on January 03, 2019, 11:26:53 AM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 03, 2019, 10:08:26 AM
Before Bruce came in we had won 4 games in 49..... You're right we had no problem winning games did we.

You can keep talking crap about it being over stated but 4 wins in 49 are the facts, but why let facts get in the way of the crap you talk

38 of those games were under different management, in a different league, after which we had a huge change in staff at all levels so the idea that all the new people under completely new management had a hangover from the season before and needed Bruce to come in and turn things around is, as I said, massively overstated by the people who were desperate to defend him.

What he actually gave us was a new manager bounce, no one argues over that, but after his first 7-8 games we went on a run of 1 win in 10 that's not the ship steadying turn-around you're desperate to give him credit for. Once he replaced the midfield and they got a few games under their belts we looked a far better team and from there on we were decent, which is exactly what I said, he inherited a team which had a non-functioning midfield.

As I said before, a huge part of the problem was that we made so many changes in the summer, many after the season had started, and hadn't done anything like enough work to form a team out of the squad we had, which, again as I said, was just a case of us repeating the same mistakes that had gotten us relegated in the first place.

If a team is relegated with awful morale and keeps most of that unit together without addressing the morale issues then they can, as Sunderland did, drop straight through but the circumstances were nothing like that.

Aside from that I'm not completely dismissing the need to address some aspects of the culture but that's true for almost every new manager at any club and is why you often get a new manager bounce.

What I refuse to give credit for is this idea that Bruce stabilised us, he did nothing of the sort, he put us into a cycle of short-term shit or bust football which is why 2 years on, with him having left, we have most of the same issues, with the addition of him gutting the defence.

You refuse to give Bruce for stabilising us, which hs did.  Paul just stop now as quite frankly you're making yourself look stupid. If he didn't stabilise us why aren't we playing in league 1.  I think it's best this is the last time we mention this as you're looking a bit foolish
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TheMalandro on January 03, 2019, 11:57:02 AM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 03, 2019, 11:54:31 AM
Quote from: paul_e on January 03, 2019, 11:26:53 AM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 03, 2019, 10:08:26 AM
Before Bruce came in we had won 4 games in 49..... You're right we had no problem winning games did we.

You can keep talking crap about it being over stated but 4 wins in 49 are the facts, but why let facts get in the way of the crap you talk

38 of those games were under different management, in a different league, after which we had a huge change in staff at all levels so the idea that all the new people under completely new management had a hangover from the season before and needed Bruce to come in and turn things around is, as I said, massively overstated by the people who were desperate to defend him.

What he actually gave us was a new manager bounce, no one argues over that, but after his first 7-8 games we went on a run of 1 win in 10 that's not the ship steadying turn-around you're desperate to give him credit for. Once he replaced the midfield and they got a few games under their belts we looked a far better team and from there on we were decent, which is exactly what I said, he inherited a team which had a non-functioning midfield.

As I said before, a huge part of the problem was that we made so many changes in the summer, many after the season had started, and hadn't done anything like enough work to form a team out of the squad we had, which, again as I said, was just a case of us repeating the same mistakes that had gotten us relegated in the first place.

If a team is relegated with awful morale and keeps most of that unit together without addressing the morale issues then they can, as Sunderland did, drop straight through but the circumstances were nothing like that.

Aside from that I'm not completely dismissing the need to address some aspects of the culture but that's true for almost every new manager at any club and is why you often get a new manager bounce.

What I refuse to give credit for is this idea that Bruce stabilised us, he did nothing of the sort, he put us into a cycle of short-term shit or bust football which is why 2 years on, with him having left, we have most of the same issues, with the addition of him gutting the defence.

You refuse to give Bruce for stabilising us, which hs did.  Paul just stop now as quite frankly you're making yourself look stupid. If he didn't stabilise us why aren't we playing in league 1.  I think it's best this is the last time we mention this as you're looking a bit foolish

Hilarious.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on January 03, 2019, 11:58:54 AM
We have been over this time and again.  Some people agree with you and some disagree.

What cannot be in dispute is we had been in the doldrums for some time before Bruce arrived.  Nor can it be disputed that we got to the play off final and therefore did better than all but 3 teams last season - albeit with a better squad than most.

But what also shouldn't be disputed is that we finished last season very, very poorly and his approach to the play off final (and semi's to be fair) was pretty unforgivable.  He should have gone there and then but circumstances made that impossible.

It also can't be disputed that he left us with an unbalanced squad, although we'll never know if the final decision to let Elphick go was his alone and it's not his fault the Board failed to sign the french and Scottish defenders we were in for.  He definitely lost the plot at the start of this season and it was a relief when he was finally sacked.

But with all of this said, suggesting he didn't want to be a good manager is just daft.  Whether his methods or abilities are up to scratch can be debated, but the inference that he didn't want to be successful is just ridiculous.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on January 03, 2019, 12:09:06 PM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 03, 2019, 11:54:31 AM
Quote from: paul_e on January 03, 2019, 11:26:53 AM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 03, 2019, 10:08:26 AM
Before Bruce came in we had won 4 games in 49..... You're right we had no problem winning games did we.

You can keep talking crap about it being over stated but 4 wins in 49 are the facts, but why let facts get in the way of the crap you talk

38 of those games were under different management, in a different league, after which we had a huge change in staff at all levels so the idea that all the new people under completely new management had a hangover from the season before and needed Bruce to come in and turn things around is, as I said, massively overstated by the people who were desperate to defend him.

What he actually gave us was a new manager bounce, no one argues over that, but after his first 7-8 games we went on a run of 1 win in 10 that's not the ship steadying turn-around you're desperate to give him credit for. Once he replaced the midfield and they got a few games under their belts we looked a far better team and from there on we were decent, which is exactly what I said, he inherited a team which had a non-functioning midfield.

As I said before, a huge part of the problem was that we made so many changes in the summer, many after the season had started, and hadn't done anything like enough work to form a team out of the squad we had, which, again as I said, was just a case of us repeating the same mistakes that had gotten us relegated in the first place.

If a team is relegated with awful morale and keeps most of that unit together without addressing the morale issues then they can, as Sunderland did, drop straight through but the circumstances were nothing like that.

Aside from that I'm not completely dismissing the need to address some aspects of the culture but that's true for almost every new manager at any club and is why you often get a new manager bounce.

What I refuse to give credit for is this idea that Bruce stabilised us, he did nothing of the sort, he put us into a cycle of short-term shit or bust football which is why 2 years on, with him having left, we have most of the same issues, with the addition of him gutting the defence.

You refuse to give Bruce for stabilising us, which hs did.  Paul just stop now as quite frankly you're making yourself look stupid. If he didn't stabilise us why aren't we playing in league 1.  I think it's best this is the last time we mention this as you're looking a bit foolish

Pot, kettle.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on January 03, 2019, 12:11:53 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on January 03, 2019, 11:58:54 AM
We have been over this time and again.  Some people agree with you and some disagree.

What cannot be in dispute is we had been in the doldrums for some time before Bruce arrived.  Nor can it be disputed that we got to the play off final and therefore did better than all but 3 teams last season.

But what also shouldn't be disputed is that we finished last season very, very poorly and his approach to the play off final (and semi's to be fair) was pretty unforgivable.  He should have gone there and then but circumstances made that impossible.

It also can't be disputed that he left us with an unbalanced squad, although we'll never know if the final decision to let Elphick go was his alone and it's not his fault the Board failed to sign the french and Scottish defenders we were in for.  He definitely lost the plot at the start of this season and it was a relief when he was finally sacked.

But with all of this said, suggesting he didn't want to be a good manager is just daft.  Whether his methods or abilities are up to scratch can be debated, but the inference that he didn't want to be successful is just ridiculous.

I pretty much agree with all this. He got rid of the losing mentality but didn't instill a winning one. He identified players he wanted during the summer but when they didn't arrive left it too late to bring in anyone else (Although we don't know how much time/money he had to work with once the new ownership dust had settled). He'd definitely lost it by the time he was sacked but trying to score points by going na na na na naa I always said he was rubbish is a bit daft because most managers end up as failures so it would save time and be at least 80% accurate to say that every new manager will be useless and spend their whole time in charge saying they should be sacked. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on January 03, 2019, 12:28:52 PM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 03, 2019, 11:54:31 AM
You refuse to give Bruce for stabilising us, which hs did.  Paul just stop now as quite frankly you're making yourself look stupid. If he didn't stabilise us why aren't we playing in league 1.  I think it's best this is the last time we mention this as you're looking a bit foolish

Being lectured on looking foolish by a guy who said Benteke was shit because he missed a few chances has made my day. I guess you are at expert at least.  I've given plenty of reasons why I think you're wrong, if all you can answer is "well he did" then you're right, I should just stop because you're not worth the time.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: algy on January 03, 2019, 12:41:41 PM
Quote from: West Derby Villan on January 03, 2019, 12:18:59 AM
I'm sorry but in my opinion Steve Bruce steadied a sinking ship. The fans didn't like or respect the players, the players didn't respect the fans and the management were just amateurs clutching at straws. Steve Bruce came in and halted the decline, whether by design or not, we are in a better place as a club since he came in. We were in the same boat as Sunderland don't forget and look what happened to them! As much as Steve Bruce's last months disappointed us all let's not forget it could have been so much worse.
Dean Smith is a coach who wants to learn and he's one of us, so the pressure is almost personal. He is the type of appointment most of us have wanted for many years, we have to show patience and support. This bloke has the same love, passion and ambition for our beloved club that we all have. UTV
All of this.

For my money, Steve Bruce was a canny appointment at the time.  When Villa went down, I was convinced we'd be playing League 1 football a couple of seasons' down the road (if not the next season), much like Sunderland have ended up, and several teams before them.  That didn't happen under Steve Bruce, and I don't think there was any danger of it happening.  Should've either jumped or been pushed after the playoff final defeat, but circumstances weren't great, and having kept him on for the start of this season, it wouldn't have been fair to deny him a fair crack at the whip.


Don't really understand the criticism of Dean Smith at the moment.  Some of the points would be very valid in one or two season's time, but given the run of fixtures and the injury problems he's faced, he's done better than you could reasonably expect anyone to do. 

With Grealish out and the run of fixtures, I wouldn't have thought it was a good time to field a load of (basically untested) youngsters out.  I'd be more inclined to give them time when the fixtures are a bit more forgiving of mistakes, and there's a stronger set of players around them to support them.

Likewise, rotating captaincy - depends on how much the current squad wants (or is capable of) doing that.  I don't know, but I'd have thought you'd need several strong leaders in the first team to make that work - again, to offer that room for error and support that a less experienced captain might need.

For me, he doesn't exactly get a free pass, but I'd give him a lot of leeway this season and next.  Seeing what sort of coach he came across as at Brentford, I'd expect it'll only be in 2 or 3 years that we'll even start to see what he's capable of.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: stuart445 on January 03, 2019, 12:45:16 PM
Quote from: paul_e on January 03, 2019, 12:28:52 PM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 03, 2019, 11:54:31 AM
You refuse to give Bruce for stabilising us, which hs did.  Paul just stop now as quite frankly you're making yourself look stupid. If he didn't stabilise us why aren't we playing in league 1.  I think it's best this is the last time we mention this as you're looking a bit foolish

Being lectured on looking foolish by a guy who said Benteke was shit because he missed a few chances has made my day. I guess you are at expert at least.  I've given plenty of reasons why I think you're wrong, if all you can answer is "well he did" then you're right, I should just stop because you're not worth the time.

Bringing Benteke up how predictable... Remind me how has has he done since he left us??? 
Benteke failed at Liverpool and now barely starts for Crystal Palace. Basically so far Bentekes form at Villa was the exception.

One thing I can't get my head round is a Villa fan wanting an Villa manager to fail
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TheMalandro on January 03, 2019, 12:53:02 PM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 03, 2019, 12:45:16 PM
Quote from: paul_e on January 03, 2019, 12:28:52 PM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 03, 2019, 11:54:31 AM
You refuse to give Bruce for stabilising us, which hs did.  Paul just stop now as quite frankly you're making yourself look stupid. If he didn't stabilise us why aren't we playing in league 1.  I think it's best this is the last time we mention this as you're looking a bit foolish

Being lectured on looking foolish by a guy who said Benteke was shit because he missed a few chances has made my day. I guess you are at expert at least.  I've given plenty of reasons why I think you're wrong, if all you can answer is "well he did" then you're right, I should just stop because you're not worth the time.

Bringing Benteke up how predictable... Remind me how has has he done since he left us??? 
Benteke failed at Liverpool and now barely starts for Crystal Palace. Basically so far Bentekes form at Villa was the exception.

One thing I can't get my head round is a Villa fan wanting an Villa manager to fail

Predicting a manager to fail, is not the same as wanting them to fail.

The stability you talk about, shit or bust is not stability.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on January 03, 2019, 01:00:17 PM
Given the thread is about Dean Smith....

He gets a bit of a pass at the moment, there are chronic issues in the squad that can only be fixed by recruitment. Injuries have came at the wrong time, worrying that a number of them continue to be soft tissue mind....Taylor, Lansbury..But recent results against some very average sides have been very poor. I was very concerned with bringing in Terry as defensive coach and that has proved a real issue thus far.

Also I see nothing entertaining in 5-5 type games. Smith has done little or nothing to address the fecklessness of the likes of Hourihane and McGinn without the ball, or our widemen offering zero protection in the wide areas. That simply isn't good enough and appears to be tolerated. All that matters is what happens within the white lines, not post game chats.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TheMalandro on January 03, 2019, 01:07:05 PM
Quote from: brontebilly on January 03, 2019, 01:00:17 PM
Given the thread is about Dean Smith....


Now that is a valid point!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on January 03, 2019, 01:12:29 PM
Quote from: paul_e on January 03, 2019, 11:26:53 AM

What I refuse to give credit for is this idea that Bruce stabilised us, he did nothing of the sort, he put us into a cycle of short-term shit or bust football which is why 2 years on, with him having left, we have most of the same issues, with the addition of him gutting the defence.
I think this encapsulates the issue we had with him very well. When he first came in, he did exactly what you'd expect as a minimum - he proved he'd 'been there before' by calming the nerves and getting some short-term stability. the underlying issues were never addressed in his time.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on January 03, 2019, 01:26:31 PM
Bruce's approach to management is old school 'get the lads geed up' style, light on tactics and pretty limited. By applying that to a squad of decent players he fell just short.

The problem with the Bruce time is that it was obviously shit or bust (getting in trouble for missing PAYE payments? That's about as ominous as it gets). We were very very lucky to have two billionaires rescue us. If that hadn't happened, who knows where we would be now.

We don't even know if Bruce knew how dangerous that strategy was, but Xia certainly did, and it reflects very badly on him that he let the club get into such a state.

I don't feel any animosity towards Bruce, and I wish him well. I know he's had a few pops and his son has too, but he's defending his record and his son is defending his dad, what do people expect?

He's no idiot, he wouldn't have walked into a decent size job if he was. It's just that his style of doing things is painfully anachronistic and frequently awful to watch.

Ironically, Dean Smith now finds himself with the third richest owners in British football, yet unable to spend much cash because of FFP considerations. He's also come to the club and inherited a woefully unbalanced squad which Bruce was clearly not getting a tune out of.

That's a difficult job and whatever he achieves with us, it is going to take time.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on January 03, 2019, 01:28:00 PM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 03, 2019, 12:45:16 PM
Quote from: paul_e on January 03, 2019, 12:28:52 PM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 03, 2019, 11:54:31 AM
You refuse to give Bruce for stabilising us, which hs did.  Paul just stop now as quite frankly you're making yourself look stupid. If he didn't stabilise us why aren't we playing in league 1.  I think it's best this is the last time we mention this as you're looking a bit foolish

Being lectured on looking foolish by a guy who said Benteke was shit because he missed a few chances has made my day. I guess you are at expert at least.  I've given plenty of reasons why I think you're wrong, if all you can answer is "well he did" then you're right, I should just stop because you're not worth the time.

Bringing Benteke up how predictable... Remind me how has has he done since he left us??? 
Benteke failed at Liverpool and now barely starts for Crystal Palace. Basically so far Bentekes form at Villa was the exception.

One thing I can't get my head round is a Villa fan wanting an Villa manager to fail

And you're still not countering any of my points and now seem to be suggesting that you were right that Benteke was shit so long as we ignore how he played at Villa, As I said, you're an expert on looking foolish.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chinchilla Bathhouse on January 03, 2019, 01:35:11 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on January 03, 2019, 11:58:54 AM
But with all of this said, suggesting he didn't want to be a good manager is just daft.  Whether his methods or abilities are up to scratch can be debated, but the inference that he didn't want to be successful is just ridiculous.

I inferred that he thought he already was successful, rather than didn't want to be.

He constantly waved his promotion record about as proof that he knew what he was doing, even when more progressive clubs and managers were demonstrably showing his approach to be outdated.

Had he shown more humility and less arrogance when his shortcomings were scrutinised he might not have failed last season, but fail he did, all because of hysteria and the silly season. Not because of anything he did or didn't do. He wasn't motivated to better himself because he apparently felt he had nothing left to learn, so what was he motivated by? What did he see as success? To all of us it was promotion. There, not thereabouts. I doubt he'll ever concede he was at fault for us coming up short.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: stuart445 on January 03, 2019, 01:39:12 PM
Quote from: paul_e on January 03, 2019, 01:28:00 PM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 03, 2019, 12:45:16 PM
Quote from: paul_e on January 03, 2019, 12:28:52 PM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 03, 2019, 11:54:31 AM
You refuse to give Bruce for stabilising us, which hs did.  Paul just stop now as quite frankly you're making yourself look stupid. If he didn't stabilise us why aren't we playing in league 1.  I think it's best this is the last time we mention this as you're looking a bit foolish

Being lectured on looking foolish by a guy who said Benteke was shit because he missed a few chances has made my day. I guess you are at expert at least.  I've given plenty of reasons why I think you're wrong, if all you can answer is "well he did" then you're right, I should just stop because you're not worth the time.

Bringing Benteke up how predictable... Remind me how has has he done since he left us??? 
Benteke failed at Liverpool and now barely starts for Crystal Palace. Basically so far Bentekes form at Villa was the exception.

One thing I can't get my head round is a Villa fan wanting an Villa manager to fail

And you're still not countering any of my points and now seem to be suggesting that you were right that Benteke was shit so long as we ignore how he played at Villa, As I said, you're an expert on looking foolish.

Considering his time here was a small fraction of his career (and he had spells here when he couldn't get anything right) so if you take everything into account his form at villa was a blip.

Basically Benteke is no difference to Scott Hogan. Managed to do well with 1 club for a short spell but has been poor everywhere else.

My guess here is you've realised you sounds foolish which is why you shifted the topic to Benteke.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on January 03, 2019, 01:51:01 PM
The thing is Stuart is that you were on Benteke's back from game one and you didn't really give him a chance to get to grips with the league. He turned out to be some of the best £7m we've ever spent and we made a massive profit on him. Whats happened since is a pity but he was fucking immense for us.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Des Little on January 03, 2019, 01:55:09 PM
Benteke is no different to Scott Hogan?  Mate I'd lay off those magic mushrooms if I were you.  Bloody hell.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: stuart445 on January 03, 2019, 01:58:12 PM
Quote from: Des Little on January 03, 2019, 01:55:09 PM
Benteke is no different to Scott Hogan?  Mate I'd lay off those magic mushrooms if I were you.  Bloody hell.

Both have been awesome for 1 club and have been poor ever since so please, so where is the difference then?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Des Little on January 03, 2019, 01:59:46 PM
Where to start.  How about goals scored, affect on the team, or re sale value?  Take your pick.

Edit - If you are talking about Hogan pre Villa then we are at cross purposes and I apologise!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chinchilla Bathhouse on January 03, 2019, 02:03:15 PM
Stuart, just out of interest, would you say it is 'night' or 'day' where you are right now?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: stuart445 on January 03, 2019, 02:03:30 PM
Quote from: Clampy on January 03, 2019, 01:51:01 PM
The thing is Stuart is that you were on Benteke's back from game one and you didn't really give him a chance to get to grips with the league. He turned out to be some of the best £7m we've ever spent and we made a massive profit on him. Whats happened since is a pity but he was fucking immense for us.

I had concerns about Benteke at the start and what has happened since he left us shows that my concerns weren't that wide of the mark. As Scott Hogan has proved any player can have a spell where they score loads but when it comes to sustaining that form it don't happen.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on January 03, 2019, 02:05:13 PM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 03, 2019, 02:03:30 PM
Quote from: Clampy on January 03, 2019, 01:51:01 PM
The thing is Stuart is that you were on Benteke's back from game one and you didn't really give him a chance to get to grips with the league. He turned out to be some of the best £7m we've ever spent and we made a massive profit on him. Whats happened since is a pity but he was fucking immense for us.

I had concerns about Benteke at the start and what has happened since he left us shows that my concerns weren't that wide of the mark. As Scott Hogan has proved any player can have a spell where they score loads but when it comes to sustaining that form it don't happen.

Your concerns made us £25m profit.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: stuart445 on January 03, 2019, 02:11:41 PM
Quote from: Clampy on January 03, 2019, 02:05:13 PM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 03, 2019, 02:03:30 PM
Quote from: Clampy on January 03, 2019, 01:51:01 PM
The thing is Stuart is that you were on Benteke's back from game one and you didn't really give him a chance to get to grips with the league. He turned out to be some of the best £7m we've ever spent and we made a massive profit on him. Whats happened since is a pity but he was fucking immense for us.

I had concerns about Benteke at the start and what has happened since he left us shows that my concerns weren't that wide of the mark. As Scott Hogan has proved any player can have a spell where they score loads but when it comes to sustaining that form it don't happen.

Your concerns made us £25m profit.

Transfer price doesn't really mean much in football when you consider that Crystal Palace paid Liverpool £30 million for Benteke despite him being a complete failure there.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on January 03, 2019, 02:14:00 PM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 03, 2019, 01:58:12 PM
Quote from: Des Little on January 03, 2019, 01:55:09 PM
Benteke is no different to Scott Hogan?  Mate I'd lay off those magic mushrooms if I were you.  Bloody hell.

Both have been awesome for 1 club and have been poor ever since so please, so where is the difference then?

Benteke was awesome for OUR club - that's the difference.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villa in Denmark on January 03, 2019, 02:19:26 PM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 03, 2019, 02:03:30 PM
Quote from: Clampy on January 03, 2019, 01:51:01 PM
The thing is Stuart is that you were on Benteke's back from game one and you didn't really give him a chance to get to grips with the league. He turned out to be some of the best £7m we've ever spent and we made a massive profit on him. Whats happened since is a pity but he was fucking immense for us.

I had concerns about Benteke at the start and what has happened since he left us shows that my concerns weren't that wide of the mark. As Scott Hogan has proved any player can have a spell where they score loads but when it comes to sustaining that form it don't happen.

Scott Hogan had roughly 6 months at Brentford where he looked decent.

Benteke was masssive for us for 3 seasons.  There's a huge difference.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: old man villa fan on January 03, 2019, 02:19:58 PM
The difference between Benteke and Hogan was that Benteke was terrifying PL defences, whereas Hogan was scoring goals at Championship level.  Spurs thought Benteke was worth £20m, Liverpool and Crystal Palace paid more.  So a fan on H&V knows more than 3 PL managers.  I have an extendable aluminium ladder if said fan wants to borrow it, as the hole looks to be getting deeper.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on January 03, 2019, 02:25:12 PM
Quote from: Clampy on January 03, 2019, 02:05:13 PM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 03, 2019, 02:03:30 PM
Quote from: Clampy on January 03, 2019, 01:51:01 PM
The thing is Stuart is that you were on Benteke's back from game one and you didn't really give him a chance to get to grips with the league. He turned out to be some of the best £7m we've ever spent and we made a massive profit on him. Whats happened since is a pity but he was fucking immense for us.

I had concerns about Benteke at the start and what has happened since he left us shows that my concerns weren't that wide of the mark. As Scott Hogan has proved any player can have a spell where they score loads but when it comes to sustaining that form it don't happen.

Your concerns made us £25m profit.
plus it was fun taking the money off the Red Scouse
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 03, 2019, 02:33:10 PM
The Downing money felt much better
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on January 03, 2019, 02:33:12 PM
Lots of people make rash judgements about players early in their tenure, some are proved right and others wrong.  I don't think somebody being wrong about a player a few seasons ago is necessarily a reasonable barometer about whether their overall opinion on football is valid.  I remember thinking Stephen Ireland and Nzogbia would be good players for us and they are two of our worst buys in living memory.

But to maintain a stance that Benteke was anything other than fantastic for us is only ever going to prompt ridicule.  He was one of the most complete and formidable strikers I've seen in claret and blue and I absolutely loved him. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on January 03, 2019, 02:37:41 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on January 03, 2019, 02:33:12 PM
Lots of people make rash judgements about players early in their tenure, some are proved right and others wrong.  I don't think somebody being wrong about a player a few seasons ago is necessarily a reasonable barometer about whether their overall opinion on football is valid.  I remember thinking Stephen Ireland and Nzogbia would be good players for us and they are two of our worst buys in living memory.

But to maintain a stance that Benteke was anything other than fantastic for us is only ever going to prompt ridicule.  He was one of the most complete and formidable strikers I've seen in claret and blue and I absolutely loved him. 

I get reminded annually by Facebook of a post I put about Harry Redknapp needing to spend lots of money if he thought Harry Kane was the answer to Spurs' attacking future...
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on January 03, 2019, 02:38:10 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on January 03, 2019, 02:33:10 PM
The Downing money felt much better
good call TV - I'd forgotten that little shit
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nunkin1965 on January 03, 2019, 02:38:55 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on January 03, 2019, 02:25:12 PM
Quote from: Clampy on January 03, 2019, 02:05:13 PM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 03, 2019, 02:03:30 PM
Quote from: Clampy on January 03, 2019, 01:51:01 PM
The thing is Stuart is that you were on Benteke's back from game one and you didn't really give him a chance to get to grips with the league. He turned out to be some of the best £7m we've ever spent and we made a massive profit on him. Whats happened since is a pity but he was fucking immense for us.

I had concerns about Benteke at the start and what has happened since he left us shows that my concerns weren't that wide of the mark. As Scott Hogan has proved any player can have a spell where they score loads but when it comes to sustaining that form it don't happen.

Your concerns made us £25m profit.
plus it was fun taking the money off the Red Scouse

It would be interesting how he fared in the Championship though even if we had his best days with us.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: stuart445 on January 03, 2019, 02:39:48 PM
Quote from: old man villa fan on January 03, 2019, 02:19:58 PM
The difference between Benteke and Hogan was that Benteke was terrifying PL defences, whereas Hogan was scoring goals at Championship level.  Spurs thought Benteke was worth £20m, Liverpool and Crystal Palace paid more.  So a fan on H&V knows more than 3 PL managers.  I have an extendable aluminium ladder if said fan wants to borrow it, as the hole looks to be getting deeper.

OK then replace Scott Hogan with Stephen Ireland. As i said any player can have a short spell of good form.  Benteke has played for 8 clubs,  his goal tally has got into double figures for 4 of those clubs.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: stuart445 on January 03, 2019, 02:43:38 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on January 03, 2019, 02:33:12 PM
Lots of people make rash judgements about players early in their tenure, some are proved right and others wrong.  I don't think somebody being wrong about a player a few seasons ago is necessarily a reasonable barometer about whether their overall opinion on football is valid.  I remember thinking Stephen Ireland and Nzogbia would be good players for us and they are two of our worst buys in living memory.

But to maintain a stance that Benteke was anything other than fantastic for us is only ever going to prompt ridicule. He was one of the most complete and formidable strikers I've seen in claret and blue and I absolutely loved him.

whilst i don't deny Benteke did very well for us,  I'd say John Carew was a far more formidable striker than Benteke.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on January 03, 2019, 02:45:08 PM
People would think a lot more of you if you just admitted you made a huge error.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Des Little on January 03, 2019, 02:46:01 PM
I'll give you this, Stu - you like to keep a debate going don't you?  When are you back at work?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nunkin1965 on January 03, 2019, 03:03:50 PM
Benteke was at times simply awesome for us.
I used to sit there and think “This Guy is simply unplayable”
Proud he played for us.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: old man villa fan on January 03, 2019, 03:06:19 PM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 03, 2019, 02:39:48 PM
Quote from: old man villa fan on January 03, 2019, 02:19:58 PM
The difference between Benteke and Hogan was that Benteke was terrifying PL defences, whereas Hogan was scoring goals at Championship level.  Spurs thought Benteke was worth £20m, Liverpool and Crystal Palace paid more.  So a fan on H&V knows more than 3 PL managers.  I have an extendable aluminium ladder if said fan wants to borrow it, as the hole looks to be getting deeper.

OK then replace Scott Hogan with Stephen Ireland. As i said any player can have a short spell of good form.  Benteke has played for 8 clubs,  his goal tally has got into double figures for 4 of those clubs.

Ireland v Benteke, now you are getting ridiculous.  I've got an extension for that ladder, by the way.

Being serious, Benteke needs to be played in the right set up to be effective. Liverpool was the wrong move for him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 03, 2019, 03:21:19 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on January 03, 2019, 02:38:10 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on January 03, 2019, 02:33:10 PM
The Downing money felt much better
good call TV - I'd forgotten that little shit

Getting 21m for that penis was wonderful business
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on January 03, 2019, 03:23:06 PM
Let's put it this way - in the pantheon of modern Villa greats, it would be unthinkable not to include Benteke.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: stuart445 on January 03, 2019, 03:33:42 PM
Quote from: old man villa fan on January 03, 2019, 03:06:19 PM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 03, 2019, 02:39:48 PM
Quote from: old man villa fan on January 03, 2019, 02:19:58 PM
The difference between Benteke and Hogan was that Benteke was terrifying PL defences, whereas Hogan was scoring goals at Championship level.  Spurs thought Benteke was worth £20m, Liverpool and Crystal Palace paid more.  So a fan on H&V knows more than 3 PL managers.  I have an extendable aluminium ladder if said fan wants to borrow it, as the hole looks to be getting deeper.

OK then replace Scott Hogan with Stephen Ireland. As i said any player can have a short spell of good form.  Benteke has played for 8 clubs,  his goal tally has got into double figures for 4 of those clubs.

Ireland v Benteke, now you are getting ridiculous.  I've got an extension for that ladder, by the way.

Being serious, Benteke needs to be played in the right set up to be effective. Liverpool was the wrong move for him.

If you read what I said any player can have a brief run of good form like Hogan and Stephen Ireland but you can't call Benteke a complete striker because other than his time with us he's either been a failure or bang average.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on January 03, 2019, 04:01:08 PM
Stuart, just to clarify, I raised Benteke to show you what the response on here is like when someone is genuinely foolish and also to show that judging someone earely in the career at the club isn't unique to people who don't like Bruce.

The club now is, seemingly, run more how I thought we should've been when Xia arrived and if we'd done things the right way back then there wouldn't have been this myth that there was something fundamentally wrong at the club that Bruce was the perfect answer to. Bruce was seen as a the perfect answer because we were still asking the wrong questions and by doing so we went to the brink of administration. If the only bar you set for judging someone is that they were better than RDM (who is the only other manager to work under that board) then yes Bruce looks decent especially when RDM was given almost no time with his 'final' squad but getting a bounce and then finishing the rebuilding job by papering over the cracks is all Bruce really did which is why he was sacked as soon as we had competent management above him who'd had a chance to see what he had done.

To go full circle, I trust Smith to do a better job of addressing the underlying issues, I trust Purslow to be more demanding of it and I trust Pitarch more to find the right players for Smith to use to do it. Smith has come in and has only said 1 thing critical of Bruce which was to point out a couple of weeks ago that his only fit central defender was playing for Hull, Bruce spent a year moaning about what he found when he arrived.

Bruce arrived at a team in 20th with 11 points from 12 games (I'm not counting the Wolves game as his)
Smith arrived at a team in 18th with 13 points from 12 games

Both arrived at teams with a midfield that was a mess but only one arrived to a squad with just 2 centre halves and 1 left left back. Hence Bruce has left us almost exactly where he found us having failed at his only target twice.


As for comparing 6months of form from Hogan and Ireland to 3 years of form from Benteke that's some fine straw clutching.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on January 03, 2019, 04:03:30 PM
thanks for that rather long clarification post mate
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on January 03, 2019, 04:04:18 PM
Why don't you just admit you were wrong?

Benteke was a brilliant centre forward. Utterly unplayable at times. Scored rafts of goals in awful teams over 3 years.

We all get it wrong sometimes. You got it wrong on this one it happens.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on January 03, 2019, 04:04:48 PM
He's had 3 full seasons since he left us, at Liverpool he scored 9 in 29 league games (14 starts) which is ok, 15 in 36 in his first season at Palace is good, last season was a total mare for him, and this season he's been injured since early Sept which makes the "he barely starts for Palace" stuff bizarre as he started their first 4 games and has been injured ever since.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on January 03, 2019, 04:10:28 PM
Quote from: Ads on January 03, 2019, 04:04:18 PM
Benteke was a brilliant centre forward. Utterly unplayable at times. Scored rafts of goals in awful teams over 3 years.

He certainly was.  He also saw us as a stepping stone and along with his mercenary agent tried to force a move away after only six months of useful service.

For that reason, I couldn't give two fucks what's happened to him since he left and wouldn't be arsed if he never scored another goal again!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: stuart445 on January 03, 2019, 04:11:14 PM
Quote from: paul_e on January 03, 2019, 04:01:08 PM
Stuart, just to clarify, I raised Benteke to show you what the response on here is like when someone is genuinely foolish and also to show that judging someone earely in the career at the club isn't unique to people who don't like Bruce.

The club now is, seemingly, run more how I thought we should've been when Xia arrived and if we'd done things the right way back then there wouldn't have been this myth that there was something fundamentally wrong at the club that Bruce was the perfect answer to. Bruce was seen as a the perfect answer because we were still asking the wrong questions and by doing so we went to the brink of administration. If the only bar you set for judging someone is that they were better than RDM (who is the only other manager to work under that board) then yes Bruce looks decent especially when RDM was given almost no time with his 'final' squad but getting a bounce and then finishing the rebuilding job by papering over the cracks is all Bruce really did which is why he was sacked as soon as we had competent management above him who'd had a chance to see what he had done.

To go full circle, I trust Smith to do a better job of addressing the underlying issues, I trust Purslow to be more demanding of it and I trust Pitarch more to find the right players for Smith to use to do it. Smith has come in and has only said 1 thing critical of Bruce which was to point out a couple of weeks ago that his only fit central defender was playing for Hull, Bruce spent a year moaning about what he found when he arrived.

Bruce arrived at a team in 20th with 11 points from 12 games (I'm not counting the Wolves game as his)
Smith arrived at a team in 18th with 13 points from 12 games

Both arrived at teams with a midfield that was a mess but only one arrived to a squad with just 2 centre halves and 1 left left back. Hence Bruce has left us almost exactly where he found us having failed at his only target twice.


As for comparing 6months of form from Hogan and Ireland to 3 years of form from Benteke that's some fine straw clutching.

So having our worst season and team in the clubs history was a myth??

Up until Bruce came in we were in decline season after season whilst having multiple managers and he was the only one that we appointed that stopped that decline that isn't a myth that is fact. You don't go a whole season only winning 3 games, getting relegated with 17 points then go into the next season in a lower division winning only 1 in 11 if there wasn't something fundamentally with the club.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on January 03, 2019, 04:11:16 PM
Quote from: john e on January 03, 2019, 04:03:30 PM
thanks for that rather long clarification post mate

The clarification was the first sentence, the rest was trying to get him to explain why I'm foolish for thinking the job Bruce did in his first season is overrated by some but he's not foolish for continuing with his nonsense about Benteke.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on January 03, 2019, 04:13:58 PM
but if we could bring him back would be any good now ?

I'd take the chance

I loved him thought he was absolutely brilliant
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on January 03, 2019, 04:16:39 PM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 03, 2019, 04:11:14 PM
Quote from: paul_e on January 03, 2019, 04:01:08 PM
Stuart, just to clarify, I raised Benteke to show you what the response on here is like when someone is genuinely foolish and also to show that judging someone earely in the career at the club isn't unique to people who don't like Bruce.

The club now is, seemingly, run more how I thought we should've been when Xia arrived and if we'd done things the right way back then there wouldn't have been this myth that there was something fundamentally wrong at the club that Bruce was the perfect answer to. Bruce was seen as a the perfect answer because we were still asking the wrong questions and by doing so we went to the brink of administration. If the only bar you set for judging someone is that they were better than RDM (who is the only other manager to work under that board) then yes Bruce looks decent especially when RDM was given almost no time with his 'final' squad but getting a bounce and then finishing the rebuilding job by papering over the cracks is all Bruce really did which is why he was sacked as soon as we had competent management above him who'd had a chance to see what he had done.

To go full circle, I trust Smith to do a better job of addressing the underlying issues, I trust Purslow to be more demanding of it and I trust Pitarch more to find the right players for Smith to use to do it. Smith has come in and has only said 1 thing critical of Bruce which was to point out a couple of weeks ago that his only fit central defender was playing for Hull, Bruce spent a year moaning about what he found when he arrived.

Bruce arrived at a team in 20th with 11 points from 12 games (I'm not counting the Wolves game as his)
Smith arrived at a team in 18th with 13 points from 12 games

Both arrived at teams with a midfield that was a mess but only one arrived to a squad with just 2 centre halves and 1 left left back. Hence Bruce has left us almost exactly where he found us having failed at his only target twice.


As for comparing 6months of form from Hogan and Ireland to 3 years of form from Benteke that's some fine straw clutching.

So having our worst season and team in the clubs history was a myth??

Up until Bruce came in we were in decline season after season whilst having multiple managers and he was the only one that we appointed that stopped that decline that isn't a myth that is fact. You don't go a whole season only winning 3 games, getting relegated with 17 points then go into the next season in a lower division winning only 1 in 11 if there wasn't something fundamentally with the club.

Strawman arguments aren't really worth a reply.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on January 03, 2019, 04:17:10 PM
Quote from: paul_e on January 03, 2019, 04:11:16 PM
Quote from: john e on January 03, 2019, 04:03:30 PM
thanks for that rather long clarification post mate

The clarification was the first sentence, the rest was trying to get him to explain why I'm foolish for thinking the job Bruce did in his first season is overrated by some but he's not foolish for continuing with his nonsense about Benteke.

it was just a dig
you said my effort yesterday was a bit long which made me laugh coming from the man who puts up the longest posts on the fucking Internet
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: stuart445 on January 03, 2019, 04:27:20 PM
Quote from: paul_e on January 03, 2019, 04:16:39 PM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 03, 2019, 04:11:14 PM
Quote from: paul_e on January 03, 2019, 04:01:08 PM
Stuart, just to clarify, I raised Benteke to show you what the response on here is like when someone is genuinely foolish and also to show that judging someone earely in the career at the club isn't unique to people who don't like Bruce.

The club now is, seemingly, run more how I thought we should've been when Xia arrived and if we'd done things the right way back then there wouldn't have been this myth that there was something fundamentally wrong at the club that Bruce was the perfect answer to. Bruce was seen as a the perfect answer because we were still asking the wrong questions and by doing so we went to the brink of administration. If the only bar you set for judging someone is that they were better than RDM (who is the only other manager to work under that board) then yes Bruce looks decent especially when RDM was given almost no time with his 'final' squad but getting a bounce and then finishing the rebuilding job by papering over the cracks is all Bruce really did which is why he was sacked as soon as we had competent management above him who'd had a chance to see what he had done.

To go full circle, I trust Smith to do a better job of addressing the underlying issues, I trust Purslow to be more demanding of it and I trust Pitarch more to find the right players for Smith to use to do it. Smith has come in and has only said 1 thing critical of Bruce which was to point out a couple of weeks ago that his only fit central defender was playing for Hull, Bruce spent a year moaning about what he found when he arrived.

Bruce arrived at a team in 20th with 11 points from 12 games (I'm not counting the Wolves game as his)
Smith arrived at a team in 18th with 13 points from 12 games

Both arrived at teams with a midfield that was a mess but only one arrived to a squad with just 2 centre halves and 1 left left back. Hence Bruce has left us almost exactly where he found us having failed at his only target twice.


As for comparing 6months of form from Hogan and Ireland to 3 years of form from Benteke that's some fine straw clutching.

So having our worst season and team in the clubs history was a myth??

Up until Bruce came in we were in decline season after season whilst having multiple managers and he was the only one that we appointed that stopped that decline that isn't a myth that is fact. You don't go a whole season only winning 3 games, getting relegated with 17 points then go into the next season in a lower division winning only 1 in 11 if there wasn't something fundamentally with the club.

Strawman arguments aren't really worth a reply.

So finishing with one of the worst points tallys in the leagues history winning only 3 games in a season then only 1 in the 1st 11 of the next so only 4 wins in 49, if that doesn't point to something being fundamentally wrong with the club. I'd like to know how bad it'd have to get for you to realise something was fundamentally wrong with the club.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Richard E on January 03, 2019, 04:31:49 PM
So,anyone got any thoughts on Dean Smith?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on January 03, 2019, 04:33:40 PM
Benteke was ace. Downing was a cowardly weasel. Ireland was a waster. Hogan is next to useless.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on January 03, 2019, 04:33:53 PM
Quote from: Richard E on January 03, 2019, 04:31:49 PM
So,anyone got any thoughts on Dean Smith?

Who?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on January 03, 2019, 04:35:24 PM
For fuck sake this is tedious, there was something fundamentally wrong with the club, we had 3 managers in a season, an owner who wanted to sell and a squad that was split in 2 with players who were despised by the fans.

Then we were sold and got an entire new management team.
Then we got a new manager and new coaching team.
Then we signed 9 first team players and sold/loaned out 14.

We weren't the same club, squad or team that were relegated. What we were was a team that had barely had any time to train together under a manager who didn't really know what he was doing and with a fan base that had seen the amount of money spent as a sign that we'd be top of the league all season. All of that together is why Bruce got the job, the 2/3/4 seasons of shit in the premier league before he arrived was nothing to do with it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: robleflaneur on January 03, 2019, 04:49:49 PM
I rated Benteke as the best Villa centre forward that I've seen ,eclipsing Hitchens and Gray .He is a confidence player but what other clubs have failed to appreciate is that he's terrific with the ball at his feet running at defenders especially coming from wide areas.
I object to the idea that Bruce brought stability to the club.Xia threw cash at the problem.Stability or rather winning games in the short term was bought.Expensive loanees,Terry,Johnstone ,Snodgrass and Grabban.An expensive striker in Hogan to accompany other big signings,Kodjia and McCormack.A new midfield in Barney,Hourihane,Whelan and Lansbury.This resulted in the worst situation that the club has ever found itself in And then with the financial cavalry coming rescue he outdoes all his previous efforts,leaving Smith with the option of 3 right backs in defence.
Bruce does strong and stable like Theresa May.
We hear about his promotion record but rarely about the aftermath.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on January 03, 2019, 04:56:34 PM
Quote from: Richard E on January 03, 2019, 04:31:49 PM
So,anyone got any thoughts on Dean Smith?

To be fair, I did try to bring it back to a comparison between the 2 and the situations they arrived to but that bit was missed.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: robleflaneur on January 03, 2019, 05:05:43 PM
But what a good argument.Bruce and stability,Benteke was a fluke.Only lacked a comparison with MON's record and Doug's legacy.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on January 03, 2019, 06:37:44 PM
I thought Bruce was going to bring stability, which would have been worth putting up with his turgid football for. But he didn’t. He pissed what funds he had up the wall pursuing the same short termist approach that had gone before and any dressing room harmony appears to have had more with the likes of Terry and Snodgrass than anything Bruce did.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: stuart445 on January 03, 2019, 06:54:28 PM
Quote from: themossman on January 03, 2019, 06:37:44 PM
I thought Bruce was going to bring stability, which would have been worth putting up with his turgid football for. But he didn’t. He pissed what funds he had up the wall pursuing the same short termist approach that had gone before and any dressing room harmony appears to have had more with the likes of Terry and Snodgrass than anything Bruce did.

I agree with your comment about Terry. Reminds me who got Terry to come to the Villa?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Tayls_7 on January 03, 2019, 06:56:53 PM
The previous administration gambled and lost on Bruce. His performance with the treasure chest they provided was way below expectation. Sunderland, who some are touting for similarity, did no such spending so I'm not sure what comparison needs to be drawn. He came and failed. Any manager would have crawled over broken glass to accept that contract and that purse to walk out of here as the stabilser of the car crash that was AVFC.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on January 03, 2019, 06:58:59 PM
Yep, it was Steve Bruce who built dressing room morale and on the pitch leadership around a player on a one year contract then failed to replace him when he predictably left at the end of his contract.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: stuart445 on January 03, 2019, 07:08:16 PM
Quote from: themossman on January 03, 2019, 06:58:59 PM
Yep, it was Steve Bruce who built dressing room morale and on the pitch leadership around a player on a one year contract then failed to replace him when he predictably left at the end of his contract.

I'll admit Bruce's actions with the defence in the summer was confusing, it was very un Bruce like, but to get a suitable Terry replacement when we were broke most of the summer made that difficult.

I said it at the time and was laughed at that we should never have sold Baker because let's face it if he was still here our defence wouldn't be as bad as the Baker Chester partnership only conceded 6 more goals than the Terry Chester partnership.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on January 03, 2019, 07:23:44 PM
Remind me who sold Baker?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: stuart445 on January 03, 2019, 07:29:11 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on January 03, 2019, 07:23:44 PM
Remind me who sold Baker?

Yeah it was Bruce and that was a mistake, but unlike Bruce haters I'm able to praise Bruce for making us competitive for the 1st time since 2010 but also critisize when he made a mistake.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on January 03, 2019, 07:31:39 PM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 03, 2019, 07:08:16 PM
Quote from: themossman on January 03, 2019, 06:58:59 PM
Yep, it was Steve Bruce who built dressing room morale and on the pitch leadership around a player on a one year contract then failed to replace him when he predictably left at the end of his contract.

I'll admit Bruce's actions with the defence in the summer was confusing, it was very un Bruce like, but to get a suitable Terry replacement when we were broke most of the summer made that difficult.

I said it at the time and was laughed at that we should never have sold Baker because let's face it if he was still here our defence wouldn't be as bad as the Baker Chester partnership only conceded 6 more goals than the Terry Chester partnership.

So they conceded more goals?  What's your point?  Baker, whilst we could with him this weekend, just to make up the numbers, really hasn't done great since leaving has he?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on January 03, 2019, 07:33:34 PM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 03, 2019, 07:29:11 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on January 03, 2019, 07:23:44 PM
Remind me who sold Baker?

Yeah it was Bruce and that was a mistake, but unlike Bruce haters I'm able to praise Bruce for making us competitive for the 1st time since 2010 but also critisize when he made a mistake.

He got rid of the losing mentality but failed with his main objective.  Lovely bloke, but the job was too big a step for him.  He does well with small clubs with less expectations attached.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: stuart445 on January 03, 2019, 07:38:12 PM
Quote from: Newby on January 03, 2019, 07:33:34 PM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 03, 2019, 07:29:11 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on January 03, 2019, 07:23:44 PM
Remind me who sold Baker?

Yeah it was Bruce and that was a mistake, but unlike Bruce haters I'm able to praise Bruce for making us competitive for the 1st time since 2010 but also critisize when he made a mistake.

He got rid of the losing mentality but failed with his main objective.  Lovely bloke, but the job was too big a step for him.  He does well with small clubs with less expectations attached.

That's also the worry about Smith managing Brentford with fans that are happy to be where they are is a whole different kettle of fish to managing a club like Villa and the pressure and expectations that come with it. Judgement of Smith starts now for me as he can put his mark on the squad.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on January 03, 2019, 07:45:22 PM
I think we would all agree Stuart, just because Smith is a Villan, he shouldn't get a free ride.  He also has to prove his worth too.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on January 03, 2019, 07:45:59 PM
Brentford aren't where they were.

For all the talk about "a Brentford machine in which Smith was a small cog" they've been shite since he left.

He's a good manager. We're going up, albeit the hard/exciting way and we're staying up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on January 03, 2019, 07:50:28 PM
He is. This season or next?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nunkin1965 on January 03, 2019, 07:50:55 PM
Time will indeed tell whether Dean succeeds.
All I know is that already his Aston Villa gets me looking forward to games and gets me off my seat.
Ultimately under Bruce, the only time I got out of said seat was either to go for a piss or to go home.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on January 03, 2019, 07:53:17 PM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 03, 2019, 07:08:16 PM
I said it at the time and was laughed at that we should never have sold Baker

Where did you say that?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on January 03, 2019, 07:53:24 PM
wasn’t just what Bruce bought it’s who they replaced in his great team building master plan

Hogan for Ayew
Taylor for Amavi
Hourihane for Veratout
Triora for Adoma
Barney/Lansbury for Gaye

I mean is there a single upgrade there
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on January 03, 2019, 07:56:17 PM
Quote from: john e on January 03, 2019, 07:53:24 PM
Triora for Adoma

Are you sure?  :P
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on January 03, 2019, 07:58:16 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on January 03, 2019, 07:56:17 PM
Quote from: john e on January 03, 2019, 07:53:24 PM
Triora for Adoma

Are you sure?  :P

didn’t he go for 18 mill
We’d be lucky to get 3 mill for Albert
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: stuart445 on January 03, 2019, 08:02:39 PM
Quote from: john e on January 03, 2019, 07:53:24 PM
wasn’t just what Bruce bought it’s who they replaced in his great team building master plan

Hogan for Ayew
Taylor for Amavi
Hourihane for Veratout
Triora for Adoma
Barney/Lansbury for Gaye

I mean is there a single upgrade there

Amavi was promised if no promotion in 1sr season we wouldn't stop him leaving. Hogan Ayew is much of a muchness. I'd have Adomah over Adama every single time. But I'm not sure why you're using Veretout and Gueye in regards of Bruce and Adomah as well for that matter because weren't they all here / gone by the time Bruce arrived
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on January 03, 2019, 08:03:19 PM
So you meant Adomah for Traore  :P
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: stuart445 on January 03, 2019, 08:04:27 PM
Quote from: john e on January 03, 2019, 07:58:16 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on January 03, 2019, 07:56:17 PM
Quote from: john e on January 03, 2019, 07:53:24 PM
Triora for Adoma

Are you sure?  :P

didn’t he go for 18 mill
We’d be lucky to get 3 mill for Albert

My Boss is a Wolves fan and he is far from happy with Adama he's usually the player her moans about 1st.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on January 03, 2019, 08:05:23 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on January 03, 2019, 08:03:19 PM
So you meant Adomah for Traore  :P

not very good at spelling
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on January 03, 2019, 08:05:29 PM
I like Adama but I think we've got more goals and assists from Albert than we'd have got from Adama over the same period. Money wise is a different matter.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on January 03, 2019, 08:06:21 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on January 03, 2019, 08:05:29 PM
I like Adama but I think we've got more goals and assists from Albert than we'd have got from Adama over the same period. Money wise is a different matter.

Definitely last season during his purple patch.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Exeter 77 on January 03, 2019, 08:06:40 PM
As an aside, haven't there been stories linking Gana Gueye with a move away from Everton? I wonder if we have a sell on clause.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on January 03, 2019, 08:09:21 PM
I doubt there was a sell as he left because Everton triggered his release clause so we had zero bargaining power.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on January 03, 2019, 08:34:04 PM
Positives of Bruce's time here:
We got a bounce when he arrived which stopped us ever really being in the relegation fight.
Last year he put together a squad which was almost good enough.
He signed McGinn (Bree and Bedeau may get added here in the future).

That's it. The list of negatives will have John E accusing me of writing an essay. (smiley thingy)

Even from those though the 2nd one was built around Johnstone, Terry, Snodgrass and Grabban and they were all only ever for 1 season. Having to add 4-5 signings just to tread water was never going to work out well.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 03, 2019, 09:04:50 PM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 03, 2019, 08:02:39 PM
Quote from: john e on January 03, 2019, 07:53:24 PM
wasn’t just what Bruce bought it’s who they replaced in his great team building master plan

Hogan for Ayew
Taylor for Amavi
Hourihane for Veratout
Triora for Adoma
Barney/Lansbury for Gaye

I mean is there a single upgrade there

Amavi was promised if no promotion in 1sr season we wouldn't stop him leaving. Hogan Ayew is much of a muchness. I'd have Adomah over Adama every single time. But I'm not sure why you're using Veretout and Gueye in regards of Bruce and Adomah as well for that matter because weren't they all here / gone by the time Bruce arrived
Hogan Ayew oh yes very similar players :o
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villa in Denmark on January 03, 2019, 09:10:23 PM
Quote from: Ads on January 03, 2019, 07:45:59 PM
Brentford aren't where they were.

For all the talk about "a Brentford machine in which Smith was a small cog" they've been shite since he left.

He's a good manager. We're going up, albeit the hard/exciting way and we're staying up.

That might have something to do with Thomas Frank being the Danish equivalent of TSM. Managed to come 3rd and 4th in a 2 horse race whilst manager of Brøndby if memory serves.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: stuart445 on January 03, 2019, 09:22:57 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on January 03, 2019, 09:04:50 PM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 03, 2019, 08:02:39 PM
Quote from: john e on January 03, 2019, 07:53:24 PM
wasn’t just what Bruce bought it’s who they replaced in his great team building master plan

Hogan for Ayew
Taylor for Amavi
Hourihane for Veratout
Triora for Adoma
Barney/Lansbury for Gaye

I mean is there a single upgrade there

Amavi was promised if no promotion in 1sr season we wouldn't stop him leaving. Hogan Ayew is much of a muchness. I'd have Adomah over Adama every single time. But I'm not sure why you're using Veretout and Gueye in regards of Bruce and Adomah as well for that matter because weren't they all here / gone by the time Bruce arrived

Hogan Ayew oh yes very similar players :o

Ayew scored 9 goals for Villa, Hogan has scored 7. So as there is currently only 2 goals in it, it's pretty much like for like
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sickbeggar on January 03, 2019, 09:42:49 PM
I think if you haven't bought into the "building something long-term" idea  then you probably are going to be disappointed by our league position today. okay he wasn't my 1st or indeed 2nd choice for doing it, but I doubt we've had a Manager since Little or BFR who understands what this club is about and possibly has the ability to do it. I think we will get to the play-offs personally, but if not, success for me personally will be starting next season with a squad with a majority of players we own, that the manager has chosen to buy or who he wants to keep and not dependant on loans to make us competitive.  If his judgement in those players is proven flawed and he fails then so be it. Doesn't mean in 3 seasons time i want to jump back on the Bruce mr promotion bandwagon and dump any planning with a new guy
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mike on January 03, 2019, 09:45:16 PM
Nice to see we're discussing Dean Smith again on the Dean Smith thread... isn't there a separate one somewhere for Steve Bruce?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on January 03, 2019, 09:46:06 PM
Who would have been your 1st or 2nd choice?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on January 03, 2019, 09:47:55 PM
Ayew was mightily disappointing in this league.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Richard E on January 03, 2019, 09:56:26 PM
Quote from: Ads on January 03, 2019, 09:47:55 PM
Ayew was mightily disappointing in this league.

And he always had a facial expression like a smacked arse.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sickbeggar on January 03, 2019, 09:57:00 PM
Quote from: Legion on January 03, 2019, 09:46:06 PM
Who would have been your 1st or 2nd choice?

Someone like Howe - coming from a smaller club with a limit to what he can ever achieve there, to a larger club with more potential financially and success wise albieit just potential currently.  A project - like SGT took on.  Possibly/probably unrealistic in his case i know.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on January 03, 2019, 09:59:20 PM
Same as Dean Smith, then?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sickbeggar on January 03, 2019, 10:06:32 PM
Quote from: Legion on January 03, 2019, 09:59:20 PM
Same as Dean Smith, then?

Well Howe's done it. Established a very small club in the premier for 3 seasons so far. very much like SGT, not to mention all the promotions through the league with a fraction of the resources we have.. A very similar story to SGT.  Smith, well, i think he's done well so far at similar sized teams but someone like Howe/SGT is the finished article imo;
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on January 03, 2019, 10:18:30 PM
Howe failed at Burnley.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sickbeggar on January 03, 2019, 10:27:46 PM
Quote from: Ads on January 03, 2019, 10:18:30 PM
Howe failed at Burnley.

depends what you call fail really. He left for personal reasons with a better record than smith had managed at walsall.. I don't mean that as a criticism of Smith, just that Howe is in a league of his own imo. Getting someone like Howe would always be a big ask though, so Smith given hopefully more backing than he's ever recieved at the likes of Brentford is at least a plan based on potential for once.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on January 03, 2019, 10:28:16 PM
He failed.

He succeeded at Bournemouth with a fuck load of cash mind.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sickbeggar on January 03, 2019, 10:34:42 PM
Quote from: Ads on January 03, 2019, 10:28:16 PM
He failed.

He succeeded at Bournemouth with a fuck load of cash mind.


oh come on now.  bournemouth came up to the premier spending 4m at the start of the season. That's Mccormack's bar bill
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mike on January 03, 2019, 10:35:00 PM
I'm massively disappointed with performances recently and I fear for our promotion chances this year, but Smith had some very impressive results before our injury issues. Bruce left us with a shocking defence and even what we had has been decimated plus we have lost our best midfielder. What would our results against the same teams have been under Bruce? The only thing that bothers me is that I (naively?) expected us to sign a couple of defenders on Jan 1st and we currently aren't linked with any and Jack will go in the summer if we don't go up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on January 03, 2019, 10:42:27 PM
It is only the 3rd of Jan and we did sort a goalkeeper out nice and early. I'm sure we're working on bringing people in.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on January 03, 2019, 10:46:48 PM
Not sure whether it's a credible source but 'This is Futbol' claiming that Doukoure is asking for too much money and the deal is in danger, like the Hause deal, of falling through.  We will see.  I'm sure they have other options lined up and we have to be patient and use up all of the 31 days of the transfer window, or 38 if you are Arsenal!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mike on January 03, 2019, 10:47:34 PM
Yes, I just had it in my head that the day he arrived, Smith was on with sorting out our defence. To be fair, those early results did make me a bit heady.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sickbeggar on January 03, 2019, 10:51:25 PM
Quote from: Clampy on January 03, 2019, 10:42:27 PM
It is only the 3rd of Jan and we did sort a goalkeeper out nice and early. I'm sure we're working on bringing people in.


yep. Tbf us "amateurs" could see where the problems were before we even kicked a ball in August. I'm sure Smith is well aware he's got a busy month.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tomd2103 on January 04, 2019, 01:00:21 AM
Quote from: sickbeggar on January 03, 2019, 09:42:49 PM
I think if you haven't bought into the "building something long-term" idea  then you probably are going to be disappointed by our league position today. okay he wasn't my 1st or indeed 2nd choice for doing it, but I doubt we've had a Manager since Little or BFR who understands what this club is about and possibly has the ability to do it. I think we will get to the play-offs personally, but if not, success for me personally will be starting next season with a squad with a majority of players we own, that the manager has chosen to buy or who he wants to keep and not dependant on loans to make us competitive.  If his judgement in those players is proven flawed and he fails then so be it. Doesn't mean in 3 seasons time i want to jump back on the Bruce mr promotion bandwagon and dump any planning with a new guy

Agree with a lot of this.  We have to remember of course that Smith is still a relatively young and inexperienced manager.  Hopefully he will continue to develop and improve as time goes on and I think it is encouraging that his Brentford side showed definite signs of progression over the last couple of seasons. 

The defensive side is a bit of a concern, but I am not sure how much of that is down to personnel.  We do look too open at times though and I guess that is something he will have to work on. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villa75 on January 04, 2019, 09:47:41 AM
When we stop having to loan players to make us remotely competitive, then I'll know we're "building something long term". As it is, everything just smacks of short term, 'bandaid', quick fixes.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Pvb1968 on January 04, 2019, 10:54:41 AM
We've scored 27 goals in the last 11 games under Dean smith, new goalkeeper, new elphick and others to follow. We a know if Dean had us from pre season we would be higher in the league and I'm sure with 5 games to go we will be in the mix with a great chance, in Dean we trust.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on January 04, 2019, 12:51:28 PM


Quote from: Pvb1968 on January 04, 2019, 10:54:41 AM
We've scored 27 goals in the last 11 games under Dean smith, new goalkeeper, new elphick and others to follow. We a know if Dean had us from pre season we would be higher in the league and I'm sure with 5 games to go we will be in the mix with a great chance, in Dean we trust.

Actually We don't know for sure but we can speculate  .
Even if you  posted  epxected goals and stats to back up your stuff that Dean Smith would have us higher it's not absolute.

Also would Bruce have us where if he was still in charge points wise ?

Any way I think you're meaning to say Smith has a lot of potential shown some positive results and performance and that if we had him from pre season then you would think that based on what you've seen this far he would have us higher position in table.

Would we have signed Bolasie Mcginn and Abraham though?

Yes I trust him to handle matches in a positive and progressive fashion yet some concerns of
closing out matches and losing winning positions.


Quote from: Villa75 on January 04, 2019, 09:47:41 AM
When we stop having to loan players to make us remotely competitive, then I'll know we're "building something long term". As it is, everything just smacks of short term, 'bandaid', quick fixes.

Exactly Abrahams for all his quality is blocking other members of squad .
If Smith was really ruthless he could send him back and all the other loanees concentrate on building .
Or more plausible if we were midtable and out of touch
So best to keep Abrahams even though he's in the way unless we change system
Clubs do that end of season why not do it now.

Though in this case Abrahams should be kept didn't say get rid.


Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on January 04, 2019, 04:16:19 PM
Abraham isn't blocking anyone though Skillz unless you mean Kodjia playing centrally? Of course he can and probably would if Tammy leaves but I'm convinced myself he wouldn't/won't be as fecund in that role. I'm not even going to include Hogan in the debate because he's unquestionably shite.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on January 04, 2019, 06:10:47 PM
Keenan Davis ?

Bruce for all his faults gave the guy a go though I think circumstances meant he turned to big Keenan .

As we're blessed with a plethora of strikers it makes sense to have two strikers or even 3 up front .

I think over time that will occur and I'll have to be patient because clearly the strikers don't fit the structure .

It's admirable Smith has a set formation and style and over time -long term players will be set to play and understand role


Really it's a transition period but isn't this often the case with teams and clubs it's cycles.

Villa getting it together in a  patient manner  means the cycle this time can be an enjoyable ride. An era of pleasure
 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Matt Collins on January 04, 2019, 06:21:28 PM
I like keinan

But he's the opposite of prolific. And there's much less of a case for him now we're playing less direct football. At times last season, having keinan upfront was the only hope of turning one of elmo's punts down the line into something purposeful
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on January 04, 2019, 06:23:18 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on January 04, 2019, 09:47:41 AM
When we stop having to loan players to make us remotely competitive, then I'll know we're "building something long term". As it is, everything just smacks of short term, 'bandaid', quick fixes.

Kinda like sexual relations
It's like to hammer or plunder or go more sensual with intimacy .
There's wild passion sometimes but a more sophisticated and planned approach like of tantric level will have us all gushing and cumming.
 
We are hoping we get to get the ultimate climax and repeatedly to enjoy  ones taking the 'slow' route.

Though a quickie is good fun sometimes right !

Abrahams is our quickie he's a very public affair satisfying us and others are now desiring him

I certainly don't mean to offend and haven't been overly sexual explicit just strikes me that 'levels of intimacy' is similar in what trying to achieve at Villa.



Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on January 04, 2019, 06:24:22 PM
Blimey, Footyskillz has turned into Kenneth Williams.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on January 04, 2019, 06:29:20 PM
This thread has gone to some strange places over the past few days.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: West Derby Villan on January 04, 2019, 06:35:40 PM
Oohhh I say!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on January 04, 2019, 06:39:17 PM
Just felt h and v need sexing up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 04, 2019, 06:39:31 PM 
r
Quote from: Matt Collins on January 04, 2019, 06:21:28 PM
I like keinan

But he's the opposite of prolific. And there's much less of a case for him now we're playing less direct football. At times last season, having keinan upfront was the only hope of turning one of elmo's punts down the line into something purposeful
Same here, Bruce threw him in, in desperation, over played him, he got injured and was not seen again for a long long time.
Brilliant management.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on January 04, 2019, 06:40:31 PM
Quote from: Clampy on January 04, 2019, 06:24:22 PM
Blimey, Footyskillz has turned into Kenneth Williams.

Mrs smiths boys .
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on January 04, 2019, 06:50:21 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on January 04, 2019, 06:39:31 PM
r
Quote from: Matt Collins on January 04, 2019, 06:21:28 PM
I like keinan

But he's the opposite of prolific. And there's much less of a case for him now we're playing less direct football. At times last season, having keinan upfront was the only hope of turning one of elmo's punts down the line into something purposeful
Same here, Bruce threw him in, in desperation, over played him, he got injured and was not seen again for a long long time.
Brilliant management.

I'm pretty sure under Dean Smith any of our strikers could be scoring from the copius amounts of chances created and big ones are that
Davis hopefully no different .
Maybe a loan out though as where does he fit in a one central striker team with those players ahead of him.
He's also a player who can develop and hopefully not be cast as just a big target man.
In fact he could develop in to excellent hold up play and bring in play .
And has all attributes of being a expert striker

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Matt Collins on January 04, 2019, 06:58:30 PM
If keinan Davis matches Tammy's goalscoring record over 20 games I will buy you a car of your choice
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on January 04, 2019, 07:04:40 PM
Quote from: Matt Collins on January 04, 2019, 06:58:30 PM
If keinan Davis matches Tammy's goalscoring record over 20 games I will buy you a car of your choice

Oh right I see how that looks.
I don't know if Davis would be ultra prolific but he'll have a lot more chances and think his goal to games ratio would improve.
My reasoning is the playing style under Smith and chances created leads to goals scored.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brassneck on January 04, 2019, 07:10:09 PM
Quote from: footyskillz on January 04, 2019, 07:04:40 PM
Quote from: Matt Collins on January 04, 2019, 06:58:30 PM
If keinan Davis matches Tammy's goalscoring record over 20 games I will buy you a car of your choice

Oh right I see how that looks.
I don't know if Davis would be ultra prolific but he'll have a lot more chances and think his goal to games ratio would improve.
My reasoning is the playing style under Smith and chances created leads to goals scored.

Surely it would have to be kodjia ahead of Davis?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ASHTONVILLA on January 04, 2019, 07:59:09 PM
Quote from: Brassneck on January 04, 2019, 07:10:09 PM
Quote from: footyskillz on January 04, 2019, 07:04:40 PM
Quote from: Matt Collins on January 04, 2019, 06:58:30 PM
If keinan Davis matches Tammy's goalscoring record over 20 games I will buy you a car of your choice

Oh right I see how that looks.
I don't know if Davis would be ultra prolific but he'll have a lot more chances and think his goal to games ratio would improve.
My reasoning is the playing style under Smith and chances created leads to goals scored.

Surely it would have to be kodjia ahead of Davis?

Dunno, I would be tempted to stick Davis in the centre and keep Kodjia out wide.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: robleflaneur on January 04, 2019, 07:59:21 PM
I'm struggling with a sore throat and cold and will probably miss the Swansea game as I don't think that I would cope with the sensual promises of footyskillz's Villa pleasure dome.A week or so of domestic bliss,cooking,shopping and looking after the grankids and I might be ready.
After that I'm going to see if I can get my senior season ticket renewed on the NHS.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: passport1 on January 04, 2019, 08:57:16 PM
Quote from: footyskillz on January 04, 2019, 06:23:18 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on January 04, 2019, 09:47:41 AM
When we stop having to loan players to make us remotely competitive, then I'll know we're "building something long term". As it is, everything just smacks of short term, 'bandaid', quick fixes.

Kinda like sexual relations
It's like to hammer or plunder or go more sensual with intimacy .
There's wild passion sometimes but a more sophisticated and planned approach like of tantric level will have us all gushing and cumming.
 
We are hoping we get to get the ultimate climax and repeatedly to enjoy  ones taking the 'slow' route.

Though a quickie is good fun sometimes right !

Abrahams is our quickie he's a very public affair satisfying us and others are now desiring him

I certainly don't mean to offend and haven't been overly sexual explicit just strikes me that 'levels of intimacy' is similar in what trying to achieve at Villa.





I  normally read this site for mild amusement.  I have to say this is comedy gold.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sickbeggar on January 04, 2019, 09:19:55 PM
If Abraham is the quickie, I guess Hogan is long term erectile dysfuction?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Tayls_7 on January 04, 2019, 09:26:11 PM
Quote from: passport1 on January 04, 2019, 08:57:16 PM
Quote from: footyskillz on January 04, 2019, 06:23:18 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on January 04, 2019, 09:47:41 AM
When we stop having to loan players to make us remotely competitive, then I'll know we're "building something long term". As it is, everything just smacks of short term, 'bandaid', quick fixes.

Kinda like sexual relations
It's like to hammer or plunder or go more sensual with intimacy .
There's wild passion sometimes but a more sophisticated and planned approach like of tantric level will have us all gushing and cumming.
 
We are hoping we get to get the ultimate climax and repeatedly to enjoy  ones taking the 'slow' route.

Though a quickie is good fun sometimes right !

Abrahams is our quickie he's a very public affair satisfying us and others are now desiring him

I certainly don't mean to offend and haven't been overly sexual explicit just strikes me that 'levels of intimacy' is similar in what trying to achieve at Villa.





I  normally read this site for mild amusement.  I have to say this is comedy gold.

My symbiosis with the current Villa squad is all askew. They seem to prematurely ejaculate before I'm even remotely warmed up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Richard E on January 04, 2019, 09:33:24 PM
Quote from: sickbeggar on January 04, 2019, 09:19:55 PM
If Abraham is the quickie, I guess Hogan is long term erectile dysfuction?

Unsworth took us back to his place and then sobered up and decided he didn’t fancy us.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Man With A Stick on January 04, 2019, 09:46:10 PM
Quote from: ASHTONVILLA on January 04, 2019, 07:59:09 PM
Quote from: Brassneck on January 04, 2019, 07:10:09 PM
Quote from: footyskillz on January 04, 2019, 07:04:40 PM
Quote from: Matt Collins on January 04, 2019, 06:58:30 PM
If keinan Davis matches Tammy's goalscoring record over 20 games I will buy you a car of your choice

Oh right I see how that looks.
I don't know if Davis would be ultra prolific but he'll have a lot more chances and think his goal to games ratio would improve.
My reasoning is the playing style under Smith and chances created leads to goals scored.

Surely it would have to be kodjia ahead of Davis?

Dunno, I would be tempted to stick Davis in the centre and keep Kodjia out wide.

If both of those managed to stay fit for 20 games I'll buy everyone on this site an Airbus A380.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on January 04, 2019, 10:00:42 PM
Quote from: The Man With A Stick on January 04, 2019, 09:46:10 PM
Quote from: ASHTONVILLA on January 04, 2019, 07:59:09 PM
Quote from: Brassneck on January 04, 2019, 07:10:09 PM
Quote from: footyskillz on January 04, 2019, 07:04:40 PM
Quote from: Matt Collins on January 04, 2019, 06:58:30 PM
If keinan Davis matches Tammy's goalscoring record over 20 games I will buy you a car of your choice

Oh right I see how that looks.
I don't know if Davis would be ultra prolific but he'll have a lot more chances and think his goal to games ratio would improve.
My reasoning is the playing style under Smith and chances created leads to goals scored.

Surely it would have to be kodjia ahead of Davis?

Dunno, I would be tempted to stick Davis in the centre and keep Kodjia out wide.

If both of those managed to stay fit for 20 games I'll buy everyone on this site an Airbus A380.

I'm alright with a 2nd hand Focus mate, insurance and and all that.

Ta.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on January 04, 2019, 10:34:47 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on January 04, 2019, 06:39:31 PM
r
Quote from: Matt Collins on January 04, 2019, 06:21:28 PM
I like keinan

But he's the opposite of prolific. And there's much less of a case for him now we're playing less direct football. At times last season, having keinan upfront was the only hope of turning one of elmo's punts down the line into something purposeful
Same here, Bruce threw him in, in desperation, over played him, he got injured and was not seen again for a long long time.
Brilliant management.
Overplayed?  How many games did he play? 

Bruce doesn’t play youngsters.  Gets slagged off.
Bruce plays youngsters.  Gets slagged off.

Get a grip.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Tayls_7 on January 04, 2019, 10:55:37 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on January 04, 2019, 10:34:47 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on January 04, 2019, 06:39:31 PM
r
Quote from: Matt Collins on January 04, 2019, 06:21:28 PM
I like keinan

But he's the opposite of prolific. And there's much less of a case for him now we're playing less direct football. At times last season, having keinan upfront was the only hope of turning one of elmo's punts down the line into something purposeful
Same here, Bruce threw him in, in desperation, over played him, he got injured and was not seen again for a long long time.
Brilliant management.
Overplayed?  How many games did he play? 

Bruce doesn’t play youngsters.  Gets slagged off.
Bruce plays youngsters.  Gets slagged off.

Get a grip.

Exactly.  Never let it be said Bruce doesn't give youth a chance because in spite of vast resources he left Davis as our only striking option for months 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on January 05, 2019, 10:16:43 AM
Quote from: chrisw1 on January 04, 2019, 10:34:47 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on January 04, 2019, 06:39:31 PM
r
Quote from: Matt Collins on January 04, 2019, 06:21:28 PM
I like keinan

But he's the opposite of prolific. And there's much less of a case for him now we're playing less direct football. At times last season, having keinan upfront was the only hope of turning one of elmo's punts down the line into something purposeful
Same here, Bruce threw him in, in desperation, over played him, he got injured and was not seen again for a long long time.
Brilliant management.
Overplayed?  How many games did he play? 

Bruce doesn’t play youngsters.  Gets slagged off.
Bruce plays youngsters.  Gets slagged off.

Get a grip.
He played 37 (scoring 3).
I hope DS tries him out today - he showed promise, is only 20 and we may need another striking option.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on January 05, 2019, 10:21:58 AM
He got thrown into the first team because every other striker was injured. Shame on Bruce for using one of the reserve strikers, what was he thinking?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on January 05, 2019, 11:22:22 AM
Quote from: chrisw1 on January 04, 2019, 10:34:47 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on January 04, 2019, 06:39:31 PM
r
Quote from: Matt Collins on January 04, 2019, 06:21:28 PM
I like keinan

But he's the opposite of prolific. And there's much less of a case for him now we're playing less direct football. At times last season, having keinan upfront was the only hope of turning one of elmo's punts down the line into something purposeful
Same here, Bruce threw him in, in desperation, over played him, he got injured and was not seen again for a long long time.
Brilliant management.
Overplayed?  How many games did he play? 

Bruce doesn’t play youngsters.  Gets slagged off.
Bruce plays youngsters.  Gets slagged off.

Get a grip.

I’m sure Bruce is grateful that any criticism of him on here and you will always come rushing to his defence

#ivegotbruciesback
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on January 05, 2019, 12:15:27 PM
I won’t and don’t defend all Bruce criticism.  I just don’t see the point of obsessive  hypocritical pointless criticism John
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 05, 2019, 04:42:45 PM
This simply isn’t anywhere near good enough Dean. You need to sort it out, I get that Grealish is important, but our “performances” have been pathetic since he got injured. We’re drifting and you need to do something.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on January 05, 2019, 04:46:55 PM
Unacceptable today, completely and utterly unacceptable.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 05, 2019, 04:48:13 PM
We knew it from the team selection. What the fuck was he expecting with Hutton at CB and that useless pile of shit Whelan in CM? Fucking dire. If this was Bruce he'd be getting pelters. Dean Smith gets no pass after this.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dazvillain on January 05, 2019, 04:51:07 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on January 05, 2019, 04:48:13 PM
We knew it from the team selection. What the fuck was he expecting with Hutton at CB and that useless pile of shit Whelan in CM? Fucking dire. If this was Bruce he'd be getting pelters. Dean Smith gets no pass after this.
Hang on re read the start of the fa cup SWANSEA  thread....everyone happy with a strong team !?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 05, 2019, 04:54:59 PM
Quote from: Clampy on January 05, 2019, 10:21:58 AM
He got thrown into the first team because every other striker was injured. Shame on Bruce for using one of the reserve strikers, what was he thinking?
Playing a young player with a bad injury, yes what was he thinking.
Good to see you stil sticking up for Him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on January 05, 2019, 04:55:30 PM
Part of me thinks we should sell Grealish ASAP and spend the rest of the season working out a system to play without him. We can't carry on being so deeply at the mercy of his good health.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on January 05, 2019, 04:59:39 PM
Well that first half was the worst we've witnessed since Smith took over. It also shows how scary a future without Abraham and Grealish would look.

O'Hare was also a massive disappointment for me. He needs to go on loan somewhere to toughen up - it was genuinely like men Vs boys.

Only Lansbury and Davis come out of that with any credit.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Richard E on January 05, 2019, 05:00:50 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on January 05, 2019, 04:55:30 PM
Part of me thinks we should sell Grealish ASAP and spend the rest of the season working out a system to play without him. We can't carry on being so deeply at the mercy of his good health.

That isn’t a bad shout to be honest.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on January 05, 2019, 05:02:26 PM
Terrible performance, what has happened since Derby & West Brom? We were bloody awful today & have been for a few games. It needs sorting & quickly
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on January 05, 2019, 05:18:34 PM
His selections the past 5 games leave a lot to be desired.

Whelan? What the actual fuck.
Hutton at centre half. Fuck me.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: curiousorange on January 05, 2019, 05:21:02 PM
I'm sure he's as frustrated as any Villa fan. Only difference is that he can literally do something to change it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Matt Collins on January 05, 2019, 05:22:33 PM
I can see why he's been picking whelan given the lack of alternatives. Fans were screaming for ohare but he's not ready

Now lansbury is back, plus BB, am hoping we don't see whelan start for a long time
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on January 05, 2019, 05:24:41 PM
Quote from: Matt Collins on January 05, 2019, 05:22:33 PM
I can see why he's been picking whelan given the lack of alternatives. Fans were screaming for ohare but he's not ready

Now lansbury is back, plus BB, am hoping we don't see whelan start for a long time

Next time McGinn is booked he's out for two matches so can see Whelan starting more games until we signed another DM this window.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on January 05, 2019, 05:31:39 PM
You can see why he's picking Whelan?!!!

Are you on fucking crack?!

That ****** is atrocious. He should never wear the shirt again.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: achilles on January 05, 2019, 05:33:36 PM
Quote from: Matt Collins on January 05, 2019, 05:22:33 PM
I can see why he's been picking whelan given the lack of alternatives. Fans were screaming for ohare but he's not ready

Now lansbury is back, plus BB, am hoping we don't see whelan start for a long time

I thought O'Hare played well for his first game in absolutely ages and was definitely better than El-Ghazi for starters!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on January 05, 2019, 05:33:39 PM
Quote from: Ads on January 05, 2019, 05:31:39 PM
You can see why he's picking Whelan?!!!

Are you on fucking crack?!

That c*** is atrocious. He should never wear the shirt again.

Agreed.  Whelan makes the team worse so there is absolutely no excuse to pick him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on January 05, 2019, 05:39:25 PM
The problem with Whelan is he slows our play down at an alarming rate and were 10-15 yards deeper because of him, we then revert to type and start hoofing the fucking ball.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on January 05, 2019, 05:41:46 PM
Having to bed in a new centre half, centre midfielder and striker will do for our promotion ambitions now.

We need to get back to an identifiable style of play and reboot the progress we saw prior to December.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on January 05, 2019, 05:43:53 PM
Dean's honeymoon period officially ended for me today. Hutton at centre back? Even Bruce would have winced at that one.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: curiousorange on January 05, 2019, 05:47:48 PM
Honeymoon period ended as soon as Kemar Roofe took all three points. A manager outthought and seeing a split second decision going against him. I still rate Smith but the Albion game killed us and the Leeds game, which could have shook it off, was the day the season pretty much finished.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on January 05, 2019, 05:50:08 PM
Just said he played McGinn because he was on 9 yellows so will get his rest when he sits out for two matches.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: garyshawsknee on January 05, 2019, 05:51:59 PM
He likes having someone at the base of the midfield who can read the game and move the ball quickly, we have no one in the squad who can do this, we got away with it due to Jack, but now he's stuck with some very average players, I guess we have to hang in there and try and scrap the play offs, just like Fulham did.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on January 05, 2019, 05:53:03 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on January 05, 2019, 05:50:08 PM
Just said he played McGinn because he was on 9 yellows so will get his rest when he sits out for two matches.

As much as you'd like to not hear that, it's highly unlikely to not happen before the end of the month.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: curiousorange on January 05, 2019, 05:53:19 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on January 05, 2019, 05:50:08 PM
Just said he played McGinn because he was on 9 yellows so will get his rest when he sits out for two matches.

*does ironic air-punch*
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 05, 2019, 06:12:22 PM
Quote from: curiousorange on January 05, 2019, 05:53:19 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on January 05, 2019, 05:50:08 PM
Just said he played McGinn because he was on 9 yellows so will get his rest when he sits out for two matches.

*does ironic air-punch*

*looks up at the Trinity, finds the CEO and thumps chest...*
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: in exile on January 05, 2019, 06:56:06 PM
Welcome to the real world of Aston Villa, Dean.
Now get us out of this mess
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on January 05, 2019, 07:33:18 PM
We haven’t looked good for a while, hope it can get sorted & very soon
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Stinkin_Thinkin on January 05, 2019, 07:40:21 PM
No one can understand why the high tempo high pressing game has gone just because Grealish is injured.
It might be an idea to make a Patrick Burger style signing this window as cover for Grealish. so we can go back to the champagne football of November.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: JJ-AV on January 05, 2019, 07:57:19 PM
He needs some of his men in. Let him have some signings and things will turn again.

Too many Bruce players who aren’t up to Smith’s style at the minute, coupled with losing Jack and Axel with Chester unfit and that’s why we’re struggling.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 05, 2019, 08:10:51 PM
He had these runs at Brentford, where it may have been tolerated, it won’t be accepted here. I still have faith in him obviously, still early days, but he needs to show he knows how to adapt when momentum is against us. We’ve been in a downward spiral and his selections aren’t helping at the moment.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on January 05, 2019, 08:16:15 PM
When he subbed O`Hare me and jnr just looked at each other and said
"What the fuck is he doing"?
After a promising start he now seems to be faltering albeit with  squad he inherited .....I think we can forget all about the play offs - there is too much to be changed in such a short time (January)
Being realistic I think we should be looking at a mass clear out and rebuild this summer - there is just not enough quality or heart in that squad
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: exiled on the wirral! on January 05, 2019, 08:16:31 PM
FFS...WE DONT NEED ANYMORE LOAN SIGNINGS. .THAT IS THE FUCKING PROBLEM WITH THIS TEAM...FFS!!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on January 05, 2019, 08:21:21 PM
He has made it hard for himself with some of his selections.

Whelan cannot play in a mobile pressing game or in a side that opens up to attack as much, as he lacks mobility to cover. He's atrocious.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: stuart445 on January 05, 2019, 08:26:03 PM
It's a good job Bruce was sacked as with that line up and performance there would have been riots
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on January 05, 2019, 08:29:27 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on January 05, 2019, 08:16:15 PM
When he subbed O`Hare me and jnr just looked at each other and said
"What the fuck is he doing"?
After a promising start he now seems to be faltering albeit with  squad he inherited .....I think we can forget all about the play offs - there is too much to be changed in such a short time (January)
Being realistic I think we should be looking at a mass clear out and rebuild this summer - there is just not enough quality or heart in that squad

It sounded suspiciously like he was blaming the fans for that substitution in his post-match interview.  He can that to the list of shit he needs to cut out.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on January 05, 2019, 08:29:48 PM
O'Hare was awful. Lightweight and constantly giving the ball away.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on January 05, 2019, 08:30:11 PM
O'Hare was just as ineffective as Whelan. That's why he got hooked. Lansbury did more in 5 minutes after coming on than Whelan and O'Hare combined had managed in the previous 60.

Smith's selections are a bit odd, but he's hamstrung by an unbalanced and injury ravaged squad so I'm not going to get too annoyed with him just yet.

But getting absolutely humbled at home to a 2nd tier Swansea side is pretty pathetic so I hope he instills both his players and his culture in to the club PDQ.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Pvb1968 on January 05, 2019, 08:38:02 PM
Ohare was piss poor whelan.
Whelan is Blues and would struggle in league 2.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chinchilla Bathhouse on January 05, 2019, 08:39:35 PM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 05, 2019, 08:26:03 PM
It's a good job Bruce was sacked as with that line up and performance there would have been riots

Rubbish. Bruce served up that sort of shite on a regular basis and no one rioted. Unless you count the lobbing of a cabbage.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on January 05, 2019, 08:41:12 PM
Quote from: Chinchilla Bathhouse on January 05, 2019, 08:39:35 PM
Quote from: Alex Brucelink=topic=59028.msg3532909#msg3532909 date=1546719963
It's a good job Bruce was sacked as with that line up and performance there would have been riots

Rubbish. Bruce served up that sort of shite on a regular basis and no one rioted. Unless you count the lobbing of a cabbage.

We couldn't riot at Sheffield United with half of SYP deployed like Robo Cop.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on January 05, 2019, 08:43:07 PM
Quote from: Ads on January 05, 2019, 08:29:48 PM
O'Hare was awful. Lightweight and constantly giving the ball away.
I think that's a bit harsh on him  - I could see him getting frustrated when he found himself in space and good positions but didn't get the pass .....the first touch of most of our players was poor
,not just O`Hare.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: stuart445 on January 05, 2019, 08:44:30 PM
Quote from: Chinchilla Bathhouse on January 05, 2019, 08:39:35 PM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 05, 2019, 08:26:03 PM
It's a good job Bruce was sacked as with that line up and performance there would have been riots

Rubbish. Bruce served up that sort of shite on a regular basis and no one rioted. Unless you count the lobbing of a cabbage.

Yeah sure believe what you want, but deep down you know I'm right.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Fred Crump on January 05, 2019, 08:52:12 PM
Quote from: Risso on January 05, 2019, 08:29:27 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on January 05, 2019, 08:16:15 PM
When he subbed O`Hare me and jnr just looked at each other and said
"What the fuck is he doing"?
After a promising start he now seems to be faltering albeit with  squad he inherited .....I think we can forget all about the play offs - there is too much to be changed in such a short time (January)
Being realistic I think we should be looking at a mass clear out and rebuild this summer - there is just not enough quality or heart in that squad

It sounded suspiciously like he was blaming the fans for that substitution in his post-match interview.  He can that to the list of shit he needs to cut out.

No he wasn’t . As I said in my other post he pretty much said the opposite. O’Hare did ok and most on the Holte agreed, ( and Dean acknowledged that) which is why they booed when he was taken off. He was just protecting him from the flak that was rightfully coming the way of some of his pathetic team mates who are much more senior pros than him ( Hogan, El Ghazi and Albert to name but three.
And what’s the list of shit he needs to cut out? Sounds like you and Mr B Green have already got the knives out for him. As I’ve said before - give the bloke a chance! And the kid !
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on January 05, 2019, 08:52:36 PM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 05, 2019, 08:44:30 PM
Quote from: Chinchilla Bathhouse on January 05, 2019, 08:39:35 PM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 05, 2019, 08:26:03 PM
It's a good job Bruce was sacked as with that line up and performance there would have been riots

Rubbish. Bruce served up that sort of shite on a regular basis and no one rioted. Unless you count the lobbing of a cabbage.

Yeah sure believe what you want, but deep down you know I'm right.

Were their riots after Peterborough? Burton?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on January 05, 2019, 08:53:44 PM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 05, 2019, 08:44:30 PM
Quote from: Chinchilla Bathhouse on January 05, 2019, 08:39:35 PM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 05, 2019, 08:26:03 PM
It's a good job Bruce was sacked as with that line up and performance there would have been riots

Rubbish. Bruce served up that sort of shite on a regular basis and no one rioted. Unless you count the lobbing of a cabbage.

Yeah sure believe what you want, but deep down you know I'm right.

It rhymes with 'right', but is prefixed with 'talking'.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: itmustbe_it is! on January 05, 2019, 08:53:55 PM
Quote from: Ads on January 05, 2019, 08:29:48 PM
O'Hare was awful. Lightweight and constantly giving the ball away.

Lightweight true, but a long way from awful. Thought after McGinn  he was our next best player.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on January 05, 2019, 08:55:02 PM
He gave the ball away and got bullied.
 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: stuart445 on January 05, 2019, 08:56:33 PM
Quote from: Ads on January 05, 2019, 08:52:36 PM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 05, 2019, 08:44:30 PM
Quote from: Chinchilla Bathhouse on January 05, 2019, 08:39:35 PM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 05, 2019, 08:26:03 PM
It's a good job Bruce was sacked as with that line up and performance there would have been riots

Rubbish. Bruce served up that sort of shite on a regular basis and no one rioted. Unless you count the lobbing of a cabbage.

Yeah sure believe what you want, but deep down you know I'm right.

Were their riots after Peterborough? Burton?

Difference was no one turned up to them, had a capacity crowd like today (no way was there only 30,000 there) turned up it would have been riotious
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on January 05, 2019, 08:57:24 PM
You talk some shite.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nunkin1965 on January 05, 2019, 08:58:55 PM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 05, 2019, 08:56:33 PM
Quote from: Ads on January 05, 2019, 08:52:36 PM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 05, 2019, 08:44:30 PM
Quote from: Chinchilla Bathhouse on January 05, 2019, 08:39:35 PM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 05, 2019, 08:26:03 PM
It's a good job Bruce was sacked as with that line up and performance there would have been riots

Rubbish. Bruce served up that sort of shite on a regular basis and no one rioted. Unless you count the lobbing of a cabbage.

Yeah sure believe what you want, but deep down you know I'm right.

Were their riots after Peterborough? Burton?

Difference was no one turned up to them, had a capacity crowd like today (no way was there only 30,000 there) turned up it would have been riotious
Rubbish.
Mind you I felt like rioting when Eric Black was our manager.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Fred Crump on January 05, 2019, 08:59:30 PM
I only saw him give it away once. You’re ignoring all the really good stuff he did which some of the more senior pros didn’t . Why pick on a talented youngster rather than them Ads? I normally agree with a lot of what you say but I just don’t get where you’re coming from on this one ?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: stuart445 on January 05, 2019, 08:59:57 PM
Quote from: Ads on January 05, 2019, 08:57:24 PM
You talk some shite.

As I've said believe what you want but deep down you know I am right
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on January 05, 2019, 09:00:46 PM
I thought he did alright.

At least he tried and didn't hide, like most of his teammates.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: itmustbe_it is! on January 05, 2019, 09:01:50 PM
Quote from: Ads on January 05, 2019, 08:55:02 PM
He gave the ball away and got bullied.
 

Sometimes, but that might improve with some gametime. He made intelligient runs and played some good balls, won some tackles he had no right to win and generally put effort in. Which some or his more experienced colleagues didn't.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on January 05, 2019, 09:02:59 PM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 05, 2019, 08:59:57 PM
Quote from: Ads on January 05, 2019, 08:57:24 PM
You talk some shite.

As I've said believe what you want but deep down you know I am right

You're not right, you're an idiot. In fact you're very likely the biggest idiot we've ever had on here and God knows, there's some competition for that particular title.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Fred Crump on January 05, 2019, 09:04:44 PM
Quote from: itmustbe_it is! on January 05, 2019, 09:01:50 PM
Quote from: Ads on January 05, 2019, 08:55:02 PM
He gave the ball away and got bullied.
 

Sometimes, but that might improve with some gametime. He made intelligient runs and played some good balls, won some tackles he had no right to win and generally put effort in. Which some or his more experienced colleagues didn't.

This. I was trying to say the same thing above but cocked up the quote thingy. To me , he was one of the very few positives we can take from today together with Angela’s  brief return.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on January 05, 2019, 09:04:49 PM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 05, 2019, 08:59:57 PM
Quote from: Ads on January 05, 2019, 08:57:24 PM
You talk some shite.

As I've said believe what you want but deep down you know I am right

Deep down I know you're talking shite.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on January 05, 2019, 09:09:18 PM
Blimey Dave, guys calm down. We might not agree but come on!!!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on January 05, 2019, 09:15:58 PM
Quote from: Ads on January 05, 2019, 08:55:02 PM
He gave the ball away and got bullied.
 

Completely agree. He needs to go and get a loan in League One like Grealish did so he can learn how to deal with seasoned old pros. Today he was just getting brushed aside like a small child.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: stuart445 on January 05, 2019, 09:29:28 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on January 05, 2019, 09:02:59 PM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 05, 2019, 08:59:57 PM
Quote from: Ads on January 05, 2019, 08:57:24 PM
You talk some shite.

As I've said believe what you want but deep down you know I am right

You're not right, you're an idiot. In fact you're very likely the biggest idiot we've ever had on here and God knows, there's some competition for that particular title.

When words like Smith gets a free bye this season (when Bruce didn't) maybe I'd think you weren't talking shit yourself
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on January 05, 2019, 09:36:01 PM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 05, 2019, 09:29:28 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on January 05, 2019, 09:02:59 PM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 05, 2019, 08:59:57 PM
Quote from: Ads on January 05, 2019, 08:57:24 PM
You talk some shite.

As I've said believe what you want but deep down you know I am right

You're not right, you're an idiot. In fact you're very likely the biggest idiot we've ever had on here and God knows, there's some competition for that particular title.

When words like Smith gets a free bye this season (when Bruce didn't) maybe I'd think you weren't talking shit yourself

In English please?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on January 05, 2019, 09:42:21 PM
Smith is not a word it is a brand of  crisps.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: exiled on the wirral! on January 05, 2019, 09:51:33 PM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 05, 2019, 09:29:28 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on January 05, 2019, 09:02:59 PM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 05, 2019, 08:59:57 PM
Quote from: Ads on January 05, 2019, 08:57:24 PM
You talk some shite.

As I've said believe what you want but deep down you know I am right

You're not right, you're an idiot. In fact you're very likely the biggest idiot we've ever had on here and God knows, there's some competition for that particular title.

When words like Smith gets a free bye this season (when Bruce didn't) maybe I'd think you weren't talking shit yourself

You don't think Bruce got a free bye in his first half a season?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nunkin1965 on January 05, 2019, 10:05:17 PM
Steve Bruce had very positive support I thought when he arrived.
I think people looked at his cv and thought he was well equipped to take us forward.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rigadon on January 05, 2019, 10:11:06 PM
Quote from: Nunkin1965 on January 05, 2019, 10:05:17 PM
Steve Bruce had very positive support I thought when he arrived.
I think people looked at his cv and thought he was well equipped to take us forward.

Course he did.  Got a free pass like all new mangers of all clubs do.  The only Villa exception I can remember was McLeish.  I thought at the time he might be so left field the it might just 'work'.  But... it didn't.  But there was a significant number of us that couldn't do with him. 

Bruce was different, but didn't quite work out. 

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: itmustbe_it is! on January 05, 2019, 10:12:57 PM
re Mcleish - that was because he was shit though, not because of the Blues thing
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villa75 on January 05, 2019, 10:13:58 PM
New manager 'bounce'/honeymoon is over.

Time to earn your corn, Mr Smith, as that was pure garbage today.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chinchilla Bathhouse on January 05, 2019, 10:14:24 PM
Quote from: exiled on the wirral! on January 05, 2019, 09:51:33 PM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 05, 2019, 09:29:28 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on January 05, 2019, 09:02:59 PM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 05, 2019, 08:59:57 PM
Quote from: Ads on January 05, 2019, 08:57:24 PM
You talk some shite.

As I've said believe what you want but deep down you know I am right

You're not right, you're an idiot. In fact you're very likely the biggest idiot we've ever had on here and God knows, there's some competition for that particular title.

When words like Smith gets a free bye this season (when Bruce didn't) maybe I'd think you weren't talking shit yourself

You don't think Bruce got a free bye in his first half a season?

One of the main reasons Bruce came was the promise of a free bye. Only he thought they said free pie.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rigadon on January 05, 2019, 10:17:58 PM
Quote from: itmustbe_it is! on January 05, 2019, 10:12:57 PM
re Mcleish - that was because he was shit though, not because of the Blues thing

Eventually...yes. But there was antipathy from the off (from some).  He was shit though. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on January 05, 2019, 10:22:01 PM
Quote from: Chinchilla Bathhouse on January 05, 2019, 10:14:24 PM
Quote from: exiled on the wirral! on January 05, 2019, 09:51:33 PM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 05, 2019, 09:29:28 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on January 05, 2019, 09:02:59 PM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 05, 2019, 08:59:57 PM
Quote from: Ads on January 05, 2019, 08:57:24 PM
You talk some shite.

As I've said believe what you want but deep down you know I am right

You're not right, you're an idiot. In fact you're very likely the biggest idiot we've ever had on here and God knows, there's some competition for that particular title.

When words like Smith gets a free bye this season (when Bruce didn't) maybe I'd think you weren't talking shit yourself

You don't think Bruce got a free bye in his first half a season?

One of the main reasons Bruce came was the promise of a free bye. Only he thought they said free pie.

They told him the club had a wealthy doner
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on January 05, 2019, 10:28:32 PM
Quote from: LeeB on January 05, 2019, 10:22:01 PM
Quote from: Chinchilla Bathhouse on January 05, 2019, 10:14:24 PM
Quote from: exiled on the wirral! on January 05, 2019, 09:51:33 PM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 05, 2019, 09:29:28 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on January 05, 2019, 09:02:59 PM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 05, 2019, 08:59:57 PM
Quote from: Ads on January 05, 2019, 08:57:24 PM
You talk some shite.

As I've said believe what you want but deep down you know I am right

You're not right, you're an idiot. In fact you're very likely the biggest idiot we've ever had on here and God knows, there's some competition for that particular title.

When words like Smith gets a free bye this season (when Bruce didn't) maybe I'd think you weren't talking shit yourself

You don't think Bruce got a free bye in his first half a season?

One of the main reasons Bruce came was the promise of a free bye. Only he thought they said free pie.

They told him the club had a wealthy doner

He heard something about Chinese and stopped listening.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mike on January 05, 2019, 10:48:56 PM
He had some brilliant results before our injuries. He was easily outperforming Bruce with the same squad. Losing Grealish, Tuanzebe and Taylor (not everyone's cup of tea but he was a left back playing at left back) bollocksed him. I'm disappointed we didn't sign a great centre half on Jan 1st and I fear for us next season if we lose Grealish, Abraham and McGinn, which is entirely likely. But none of this makes Smith anything other than an improvement on Bruce.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on January 05, 2019, 11:07:03 PM
Having seen the transformation Smith made in his first few games, whilst I’m pretty disappointed by the last few weeks I’ve still got confidence in him getting it right sooner rather than later.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 05, 2019, 11:09:25 PM
Quote from: mike on January 05, 2019, 10:48:56 PM
He had some brilliant results before our injuries. He was easily outperforming Bruce with the same squad. Losing Grealish, Tuanzebe and Taylor (not everyone's cup of tea but he was a left back playing at left back) bollocksed him.
Yes, this is how I see it,.
I also think the Leeds game had a phsyscological effect.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on January 05, 2019, 11:10:55 PM
Possibly.

Either way, it's utter garbage to use an FA Cup game to define a Villa manager, given we've been largely shite in it for 60 years.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: robleflaneur on January 05, 2019, 11:12:22 PM
Af8
Quote from: mike on January 05, 2019, 10:48:56 PM
He had some brilliant results before our injuries. He was easily outperforming Bruce with the same squad. Losing Grealish, Tuanzebe and Taylor (not everyone's cup of tea but he was a left back playing at left back) bollocksed him. I'm disappointed we didn't sign a great centre half on Jan 1st and I fear for us next season if we lose Grealish, Abraham and McGinn, which is entirely likely. But none of this makes Smith anything other than an improvement on Bruce.
I don't fear for us.It would be a great disappoinment not to see Grealish and McGinn perform in a Villa shirt but with this manager and owners I feel that progress will be made. The money gained,hopefully will be spent wisely,although it's not good to sell your most talented players.
Quite correctly,everyone is down after a 3-0 thumping by Swansea but Smith did the double over them in the league,so hopefully this is a wake up call and a realisation over some players' abilities and their place in the squad.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Jockey Randall on January 05, 2019, 11:13:15 PM
I think O'Hare and Hogan can be effective in a team that presses high and forces teams back by dominating the ball. Unfortunately today Swansea gave us a bit of a footballing lesson and showed us that we probably don't even have half a team that are capable of playing that way.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on January 05, 2019, 11:14:55 PM
Quote from: Rigadon on January 05, 2019, 10:17:58 PM
Quote from: itmustbe_it is! on January 05, 2019, 10:12:57 PM
re Mcleish - that was because he was shit though, not because of the Blues thing

Eventually...yes. But there was antipathy from the off (from some).  He was shit though. 

Yeah, because he'd just got a team relegated. Hardly the best interview for the managers job at Aston Villa!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mike on January 05, 2019, 11:18:07 PM
Quote from: Ad@m on January 05, 2019, 11:14:55 PM
Quote from: Rigadon on January 05, 2019, 10:17:58 PM
Quote from: itmustbe_it is! on January 05, 2019, 10:12:57 PM
re Mcleish - that was because he was shit though, not because of the Blues thing

Eventually...yes. But there was antipathy from the off (from some).  He was shit though. 

Yeah, because he'd just got a team relegated. Hardly the best interview for the managers job at Aston Villa!

It was utterly bizarre, appointing a relegated manager to a relegation threatened team.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on January 05, 2019, 11:40:46 PM
Quote from: Ad@m on January 05, 2019, 11:14:55 PM
Quote from: Rigadon on January 05, 2019, 10:17:58 PM
Quote from: itmustbe_it is! on January 05, 2019, 10:12:57 PM
re Mcleish - that was because he was shit though, not because of the Blues thing

Eventually...yes. But there was antipathy from the off (from some).  He was shit though. 

Yeah, because he'd just got a team relegated. Hardly the best interview for the managers job at Aston Villa!

But imagine what he could do with the backing of a man like Randy!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on January 06, 2019, 12:21:53 AM
Shit today, poor first half performance, should have changed the midfield around at half time, sent them back out for more of the same and was game over 2 minutes later.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Matt Collins on January 06, 2019, 06:37:01 AM
Quote from: Jockey Randall on January 05, 2019, 11:13:15 PM
I think O'Hare and Hogan can be effective in a team that presses high and forces teams back by dominating the ball. Unfortunately today Swansea gave us a bit of a footballing lesson and showed us that we probably don't even have half a team that are capable of playing that way.

Except we did play that way for a period earlier on. That's what I'm finding it hard to get my hear around. I was impressed and surprised about how quickly we'd transformed into a side that knocked the ball around so well. I don't doubt that tuanzebe and grealish were instrumental, as was playing hourihane rather than whelan deep. But even so, yesterday it was like a bad Steve Bruce perfomance

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: JJ-AV on January 06, 2019, 06:56:48 AM
I think there were probably 3 players he’d keep from yesterday’s outfield; Adomah, McGinn and El Ghazi.

Our four best players missing from the team (Chester, Axel, Grealish and Tammy), it’s no surprise that the momentum has dropped and it was that bad yesterday. The guy desperately needs players and the board need to back him.

The squad is littered with slow players who can’t press or do not move the ball quick enough, they have no chance of being effective in Smith’s system: Hutton, Elmo, Jedinak, Bree, Hourihane, Taylor, Hogan (in a Villa shirt)

Can see the difference someone who can pick a pass out and move it quickly when Lansbury came on.

That’s a lot of resource and if those guys are replaced with players suited to his system we’d be better off. He’s yet to play an outfield player he’s signed remember.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: alftitimus on January 06, 2019, 07:19:21 AM
This Thread still about Dean?

Or the Swansea  match ?

DS had little choices but ... imo.... mis-stepped in his selections v Swansea  :-[

BOT

Dean - imo - is a man without Charisma / Personality or potential media  celebrity  ;D

He's not the image we need to project,,, in fact he's like an
ANTI - MANAGER... like Allardyce / Warnock / Pullis ... the guys that play percentages with HOOFBALL

 Probably another toxic  post from me, BUT my honeymoon is over.....

A Man out of his depth  with the 2nd most expensive team in the Champiionship... what gives ?  ?? ??>:(
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT on January 06, 2019, 07:34:55 AM
Quote from: alftitimus on January 06, 2019, 07:19:21 AM
This Thread still about Dean?

Or the Swansea  match ?

DS had little choices but ... imo.... mis-stepped in his selections v Swansea  :-[

BOT

Dean - imo - is a man without Charisma / Personality or potential media  celebrity  ;D

He's not the image we need to project,,, in fact he's like an
ANTI - MANAGER... like Allardyce / Warnock / Pullis ... the guys that play percentages with HOOFBALL

 Probably another toxic  post from me, BUT my honeymoon is over.....

A Man out of his depth  with the 2nd most expensive team in the Champiionship... what gives ?  ?? ??>:(







Holy fuck.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ozzjim on January 06, 2019, 07:54:42 AM
Some of the whinging about Smith is amazing. He's got one player that he has been involved in signing so far, got an awful injury crisis in that three or four really influential players are out and inherited one of the most ill balanced and lacking depth squads I can remember at Villa park. He's lost 2 of 12, one in the cup, and has all the Abraham crap to deal with on top. He needs years, not weeks to be judged on.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: London Villan on January 06, 2019, 08:05:08 AM
Wrong thread.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on January 06, 2019, 08:47:11 AM
People are saying he got the selections wrong, which I think is fair. It's been that way since the Albion. JJ is right, injuries and lack of options in the squad have forced his hand, but there has been and there is no excuse for the likes of Whelan who cannot play the type of game Smith wants.

There's only been about 3 people talking drivel likening Smith to Bruce, anti-manager or seemingly wanting him to fail as they're still in love with wor Bruce.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AV82EC on January 06, 2019, 08:54:37 AM
Unfortunately Deano is at the moment reaping the benefit of turning it round so quickly after he took over. He had pretty much his first choice 11 available to him in November and early December and it showed. Comprehensive victories away at Derby and Boro, unlucky draws with West Brom and Forest and a simple win against the noses. Losing Grealish and Tuanzebe and Taylor that week then completely unbalanced the team and the wins have turned into draws and the odd defeat. He’ll turn it back around I’m sure but he must be swearing at Bruce’s supposed squad strength and the glaring imbalances it holds.

Until Grealish returns I’m afraid we’ll, to coin a phrase, be there or thereabouts with regards to the play offs.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ROBBO on January 06, 2019, 08:59:57 AM
If he keeps playing Whelan he will have supporters offside this is the one selection that has me baffled Whelan is the total opposite of the way I thought he would have Villa playing. Although his record is solid since he took over the squad this selection has me worried that the pressure is starting to get to him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on January 06, 2019, 09:01:52 AM
This is the thing, he's getting stick now but our "bad spell" had involved being largely unbeaten against the best teams in the league with our best players out injured.

Yes, yesterday was a horror show but we were never going to win the FA Cup this year so I'd rather that be the game we lose to Swansea than the league games.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on January 06, 2019, 09:06:51 AM
Our bad spell has been 3 draws, a defeat and a win.

For all the angst, very few will care about the cup in a few days never mind a few weeks.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AV82EC on January 06, 2019, 09:08:58 AM
Yep, no one will give two hoots about losing in the Cup if we sort ourselves out in the next 3.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on January 06, 2019, 09:11:25 AM
The most depressing aspect about a depressing day yesterday was Dean Smith's post match comments that players had failed to respond to his half time demands.  Even accepting modern conditions of the players being incredibly rich and insulated from reality by agents and handlers, the managers and coaches are powerless if players simply refuse to follow instructions.

Dean Smith must be allowed to buy the players he chooses.  They will be his players to play the way he wants them to play. No short term gap plugging with old, slow, stubborn journeymen players.  No building the future on the shifting sands of loan deals.  He must be given however long it takes to buy and have under long term control the players he identifies.  There is no quick, easy answer to our problems if we are to rise to become secure in the Premiership.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Hookeysmith on January 06, 2019, 09:16:07 AM
Quote from: ozzjim on January 06, 2019, 07:54:42 AM
Some of the whinging about Smith is amazing. He's got one player that he has been involved in signing so far, got an awful injury crisis in that three or four really influential players are out and inherited one of the most ill balanced and lacking depth squads I can remember at Villa park. He's lost 2 of 12, one in the cup, and has all the Abraham crap to deal with on top. He needs years, not weeks to be judged on.

Spot on.

And I can also see his thinking behind Whelan to sit in front of a shellshocked defence. Without  Grealish as an out ball we leave ourselves very exposed. The football he played when he first came with a full squad was superb considering they were the same players Bruce had.
If I had one moan about smith it would be I thought I would see a better Scott Hogan but after yesterday maybe that's more down to the player as his effort was so poor they could of hung his kit back up without washing it.

Smith needs a couple of fresh players to reignite this squad
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Neil Hawkes on January 06, 2019, 10:23:51 AM
His comments from Villa website:
"We'll benefit from a week's preparation now, but I'm not sweeping this under the carpet. The players will look back and debrief this on Monday, as they should. I want questions answered about certain performances."
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on January 06, 2019, 10:26:08 AM
I'm not taking a pop at Dean but actions speak louder than words - Bruce trotted out this type of stuff all the time and did nothing to rectify it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on January 06, 2019, 10:33:21 AM
Quote from: mr underhill on January 06, 2019, 10:26:08 AM
I'm not taking a pop at Dean but actions speak louder than words - Bruce trotted out this type of stuff all the time and did nothing to rectify it.

True, but we won't know until Wigan next week so let's see how they react.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on January 06, 2019, 10:37:50 AM
the most disappointing thing for me about yesterday apart from going out of the cup
is I saw loads of posts on social media where because of the pricing  parents were taking the opportunity to take their young children to Villa Park for the first time

I reckon there would have been loads of first timers and not for a long time-ers  there the club did well to encourage a good crowd

I know you can’t guarantee anything in football and maybe that’s the lesson that will be learnt but a 3 nill thrashing and playing rubbish to boot
You would have hoped for better than that


Edit sorry wrong thread should have been in the post match thread but I’m hungover and not with it yet
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on January 06, 2019, 11:02:08 AM
Quote from: brian green on January 06, 2019, 09:11:25 AM
The most depressing aspect about a depressing day yesterday was Dean Smith's post match comments that players had failed to respond to his half time demands.  Even accepting modern conditions of the players being incredibly rich and insulated from reality by agents and handlers, the managers and coaches are powerless if players simply refuse to follow instructions.

Dean Smith must be allowed to buy the players he chooses.  They will be his players to play the way he wants them to play. No short term gap plugging with old, slow, stubborn journeymen players.  No building the future on the shifting sands of loan deals.  He must be given however long it takes to buy and have under long term control the players he identifies.  There is no quick, easy answer to our problems if we are to rise to become secure in the Premiership.
Spot on Brian ....how many other "industries" are there where the "workers"  pick up considerably more than their manager?
Smith needs time ....lots of it ,but will the fans be patient enough?
I am hearing that Purslow is being ruthless  in his approach to sorting the mess out - he seems to be reasonably content that we don't "need" promotion this year - we shall have to wait and see
But you know the world has gone mad when Bournemouth who can only accommodate a few thousand in their ground can go out and spend £19m on a player from Liverpool
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on January 06, 2019, 11:12:29 AM
The Smith signing was a settlement signing rather that a statement one.

The route taken can be dressed up as long term build which I hope occurs .

However there is a certain degree of just keeping things content and being a championship club for the foreseeable.

I'm concerned that Purslow hoodwinked us and marketing things as a long term vision when it's a dumbing down and will have to make do with smaller status .

Bringing in Smith appeased everyone no one gonna moan having him head coach .
Similarly having JT as a coach

That Purslow character saying promotion isn't necessary says it all as does taking a coach who worked with small budgets and developing players.

I again question JT role and the go between players and staff.
He's new to coaching and that inexperience seems to be showing.

It's also all a bit cheaper and it's showing .
Given time and whole new squad Smith may have a chance .
I starting to think with this squad and season 'success' won't happen as Smith needs to get his authority over to the players .

Really there is no way the squad should be performing like that if the coaching was being taken on board and Smith had the respect of an established career or coaching career.

I think some of the players aren't embracing his methods and I'm not saying as such Smith is small time or am I saying that the players are big time but there now seems a major issue in the squad playing the way Smith wants.

That's disappointing all round.

I just don't want us slipping down in status to being seen as a less desirable club .

Biggest in championship and have premier league competitive potential let's hope Smith can get the players performing sooner rather than later .
What will help is getting in his own players or ones who didn't play so much under old regime.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Bad English on January 06, 2019, 11:18:39 AM
What do you think we need footyskillz? A couple of big defenders, maybe? Two or three hard midfielders and a thrusting striker?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on January 06, 2019, 11:20:26 AM
Purslow says promotion isn't necessary in the context of FFP.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nunkin1965 on January 06, 2019, 11:20:53 AM
Quote from: CT on January 06, 2019, 07:34:55 AM
Quote from: alftitimus on January 06, 2019, 07:19:21 AM
This Thread still about Dean?

Or the Swansea  match ?

DS had little choices but ... imo.... mis-stepped in his selections v Swansea  :-[

BOT

Dean - imo - is a man without Charisma / Personality or potential media  celebrity  ;D

He's not the image we need to project,,, in fact he's like an
ANTI - MANAGER... like Allardyce / Warnock / Pullis ... the guys that play percentages with HOOFBALL

 Probably another toxic  post from me, BUT my honeymoon is over.....

A Man out of his depth  with the 2nd most expensive team in the Champiionship... what gives ?  ?? ??>:(







Holy fuck.

Jesus

My opinion couldn’t be more opposite to this one.
Dean Smith needs time to sort out this mess.
We don’t need a media “face” we’re not playing in the Premier League now.
A succession of so called managers and owners have left Villa in an an absolute mess.
I’m hoping he gets time because I think he’ll bring  us success with his own team and some patience from us.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on January 06, 2019, 11:25:22 AM
Quote from: CT on January 06, 2019, 07:34:55 AM
Quote from: alftitimus on January 06, 2019, 07:19:21 AM
This Thread still about Dean?

Or the Swansea  match ?

DS had little choices but ... imo.... mis-stepped in his selections v Swansea  :-[

BOT

Dean - imo - is a man without Charisma / Personality or potential media  celebrity  ;D

He's not the image we need to project,,, in fact he's like an
ANTI - MANAGER... like Allardyce / Warnock / Pullis ... the guys that play percentages with HOOFBALL

 Probably another toxic  post from me, BUT my honeymoon is over.....

A Man out of his depth  with the 2nd most expensive team in the Champiionship... what gives ?  ?? ??>:(







Holy fuck.

He's a calm character who is a villa man.

He's not established in the sense that as a player and coach so far he never been top level.

However he very genuine and focused in his coaching methods and that's a great thing

The issue could well be his understanding that players who are a step above what he previously worked with won't just simply do what he says because most of them are already established developed players.

Smithy is excellent at developing players and is clear in his he wants his team to play.

Authority wise with the current squad is the main concern more than any charismatic or personality in media .

I would think some players wonder why Bruce who is respected in the game replaced .

It's a new direction the club have taken but after initial honeymoon Smith is struggling to get his ideas across with this team .

I think once he builds he's own squad -villa and could progress massively.
He's in his element at villa and needs players who will play his way, for the club and move forward.

I think players who have been coached since they were 5 or 6 years old and now having to do as they are told in developing is a stark contrast to the Bruce methods as well as them all being made players



Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Roysmert on January 06, 2019, 11:29:20 AM
Quote from: ozzjim on January 06, 2019, 07:54:42 AM
Some of the whinging about Smith is amazing. He's got one player that he has been involved in signing so far, got an awful injury crisis in that three or four really influential players are out and inherited one of the most ill balanced and lacking depth squads I can remember at Villa park. He's lost 2 of 12, one in the cup, and has all the Abraham crap to deal with on top. He needs years, not weeks to be judged on.
Totally agree jim. Dean Smith has inherited a disjointed beyond belief squad, a sub-standard u23 squad, a goalkeeper that is frightened of the ball, an attitude amongst the players that they have the control, a malaise that's dogged our club for a decade, and a set of fans that have become used to shit football and moaning about it. He ain't half got his hands full.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on January 06, 2019, 11:36:17 AM
Quote from: Bad English on January 06, 2019, 11:18:39 AM
What do you think we need footyskillz? A couple of big defenders, maybe? Two or three hard midfielders and a thrusting striker?

Ball players quite simply.
As well as the energy and legs in the engine room and central defence players who will embrace Smith way .
JT hopefully has some agreement in centre half ideas both played as defenders but need dominant centre backs who can step into midfield

Flexible players who can play couple of positions .
Not trying out Jedinak late on in his career but a Eric Dier / Javier Mascherno who can play centre back or midfield.

Bruce signed McGinn for the energy level and getting some legs .
He signed attacking players too just so we both be entertained with potential for goals .

At least Smith has an idea on how to play but trouble is he needs the technicians and energy in midfield that currently missing .

He needs ball players and carriers both there and defence .

Moulding squad is difficult in some respects  for a variety of reasons .
The system he prefers doesn't totally suit players at disposal .
Other reason can be speculated or as I have alluded to previously as have others.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: curiousorange on January 06, 2019, 11:38:20 AM
I don't think the Smith appointment was settling at all.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on January 06, 2019, 11:42:38 AM
The three up front need to be interchangeable and it's interesting that Tammy Abraham said he prefers playing left than central

Do we have the players for the Smith type midfield then a front 3 in the Smith way with wide forwards not wingers  -no we don't.

We don't have a deep lying ball playing midfielder and our center backs aren't super comfortable on the ball.

It's not only a disjointed unbalanced squad in some respects who ever took over - top heavy with attackers . But it's s super disjointed squad to Smith style of play which is a cause for concern
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: curiousorange on January 06, 2019, 11:46:11 AM
I want us to be brilliant straight away, like everybody. But we seem to be damning the bloke based on his last half dozen games and ignoring his first half dozen. This is his first major crisis at a big club and he'll be anxious about it too, and keen to fix it. We need to see how he reacts before deciding he's failing.

How many false starts has that bloke at Norwich had? Or the chap that got Huddersfield into the Prem?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Diablo on January 06, 2019, 11:47:16 AM
Quote from: ROBBO on January 06, 2019, 08:59:57 AM
If he keeps playing Whelan he will have supporters offside this is the one selection that has me baffled Whelan is the total opposite of the way I thought he would have Villa playing. Although his record is solid since he took over the squad this selection has me worried that the pressure is starting to get to him.
I think he decided Whelan needed to try to offer some protection to the defence as we had 3 right backs playing and an injured centre back and a poor goal keeper, the problem is whilst he does offer a degree of protection to the back 5 and he has played quite well in parts it throws the whole balance of the team - but I think it was more/is a case of needs must.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on January 06, 2019, 11:51:35 AM
Quote from: curiousorange on January 06, 2019, 11:46:11 AM
I want us to be brilliant straight away, like everybody. But we seem to be damning the bloke based on his last half dozen games and ignoring his first half dozen. This is his first major crisis at a big club and he'll be anxious about it too, and keen to fix it. We need to see how he reacts before deciding he's failing.

How many false starts has that bloke at Norwich had? Or the chap that got Huddersfield into the Prem?

Yesterday was beyond dreadful, but I'd rather it happened in the cup than the league (yes, yes I know).

DS is not beyond criticism but drawing more from that than it being a bad day at this stage would be grotesquely unfair.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on January 06, 2019, 11:51:51 AM
Having said that, Hutton at centre half FFS?





;-)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on January 06, 2019, 11:55:05 AM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on January 06, 2019, 11:51:51 AM
Having said that, Hutton at centre half FFS?





;-)

I found that interesting yesterday because I've always wondered if he could do a job at centre half. Personally, I'd have left him out, and played Bree there and Elmo right back.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on January 06, 2019, 12:10:08 PM
Quote from: Ads on January 06, 2019, 09:06:51 AM
Our bad spell has been 3 draws, a defeat and a win.

For all the angst, very few will care about the cup in a few days never mind a few weeks.

That depends on what our next few results and performances are like.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on January 06, 2019, 12:25:44 PM
Fancy us for 6 points against Wigan and Ipswich regardless.

Reinforcements and confidence back, then Reading, Super Jack and Februrary awaits.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on January 06, 2019, 12:40:52 PM
Quote from: Ads on January 06, 2019, 12:25:44 PM
Fancy us for 6 points against Wigan and Ipswich regardless.

Reinforcements and confidence back, then Reading, Super Jack and Februrary awaits.
I admire your confidence ....and agree about reinforcements but I can't help but thinking that part of our "problem" is the over reliance on one individual I.e Grealish
Strong teams get out of this league not teams reliant on one player, no matter how talented  he may be
I've heard he may be fit for Wigan though
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on January 09, 2019, 04:25:46 PM
Dean Smith done interview on Aston Villa posted on YouTube entitled "time to kick on"
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on January 09, 2019, 09:03:50 PM
Quote from: footyskillz on January 09, 2019, 04:25:46 PM
Dean Smith done interview on Aston Villa posted on YouTube entitled "time to kick on"

Mildly disconcerting that he didn't speak/wasn't asked about Abraham staying.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on January 09, 2019, 09:17:30 PM
I wouldn't worry about that, it's probably just playing it safe in case something changes before the 14th.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 12, 2019, 04:38:33 PM
Dean, this is unacceptable. You need to start showing you can actually address the issues you’re identifying as not working.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on January 12, 2019, 04:41:40 PM
2 of our 3 subs were a CH and a DM, while losing 1-0 away to a side that had won 1 in 14. Zero fucking shots in the second half. I like Dean Smith but this currently isn't good enough, nowhere fucking near good enough.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT on January 12, 2019, 04:42:21 PM
At least 11 new players.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: passport1 on January 12, 2019, 04:42:36 PM
I'm getting the impression that this guy is seriously out of his depth.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 12, 2019, 04:43:22 PM
Yep I agree and Whelan does another cracking job. Time is up on goodwill now, we look a fucking shambles.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Smoke on January 12, 2019, 04:45:19 PM
1 win in 7 now I think?

Sort it deano or the fact you're "one of us" won't matter to the fans anymore
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on January 12, 2019, 04:46:13 PM
Like an addict who can't perform without their chosen stimulant, we need to lose Greslish and start again.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Axl Rose on January 12, 2019, 04:47:24 PM
A manager that plays Glen Whelan. It's hard to respect such a manager.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on January 12, 2019, 04:48:27 PM
There was far too many people over excited, on here, during  Smiths early days  and now the same people are going to slaughter him. We just need to stay calm  and let the man do his job. Just look at how Norwich have  benefitted from Farke's second season after he made a fairly dismal start last season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on January 12, 2019, 04:49:19 PM
Quote from: Axl Rose on January 12, 2019, 04:47:24 PM
A manager that plays Glen Whelan. It's hard to respect such a manager.
Yes despite what I said some things are unforgivable.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 12, 2019, 04:50:47 PM
And that’s the problem. The time point is fair, but he’s making decisions that aren’t excusable, like playing Whelan.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 12, 2019, 04:51:14 PM
The criticism he will get is what he deserves. I’m sick of this. And let’s not get onto Whelan. You are the architect of your own fall Dean. This isn’t fucking Brentford.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on January 12, 2019, 04:51:54 PM
No one is slaughtering him, 1 win in 7 and this shambles today isn't something to ignore either.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: DB on January 12, 2019, 04:52:08 PM
A lot of people on here want to stop short term approach. Does same apply with the manager? We are getting worse each game.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Axl Rose on January 12, 2019, 04:52:50 PM
Quote from: olaftab on January 12, 2019, 04:48:27 PM
There was far too many people over excited, on here, during  Smiths early days  and now the same people are going to slaughter him. We just need to stay calm  and let the man do his job. Just look at how Norwich have  benefitted from Farke's second season after he made a fairly dismal start last season.

You're right, mate.

I think, eventually, he'll do well.

I just wish the players got their fingers out and played football.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 12, 2019, 04:54:29 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on January 12, 2019, 04:51:54 PM
No one is slaughtering him, 1 win in 7 and this shambles today isn't something to ignore either.

Nope and back to back 3-0s against Swansea and Wigan in the last two games speaks to things tumbling downhill.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on January 12, 2019, 04:57:51 PM
We look so unfit week in, week out, it's untrue.

DS needs time, of course he does, we can't be saying that the players are all dog shit but then at the same time say it's all his fault.

Some of them - Neil Taylor, for example, Whelan, Bjarnason are not good enough at this level. And by that I mean not that they can't do the odd thing right, but that they can not consistently perform. They're just not up to it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Pvb1968 on January 12, 2019, 05:00:16 PM
Neil warnock would have sorted this shower of shit out. Glen fucking when isn't good enough for league one.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: curiousorange on January 12, 2019, 05:01:32 PM
He's under pressure now, as he should be. Two 'bad days at the office' back to back which have been coming. Two players in a huge squad removed and the rest look bamboozled by the concept of kicking a football. Righteous anger from The Hawthorns dissolved to shot confidence after Bielsa took him apart and that shows massively on the playing surface.

If FFP is as restrictive as we fear, we needed a coaching staff who could make the most of what they had, tactically speaking. And we have a lot, it just doesn't seem like it. And Terry - what is he doing with that defence? It's about as far removed from the one he organised at Chelsea.

Today's game needs to be a line in the sand. No matter how, we need to win the next game, to stop the rot, get things moving again and give the fans something to cling to. Amazingly we're still in with a shout of play-offs but that needs to be put out of mind, because the thought of it is destroying any freedom this team has in it. Start with the basics, get the passengers and old codgers out of the side and bring in some fresh blood.

Christ, I can't believe we're talking about how this is as bad as it's got, again.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on January 12, 2019, 05:01:58 PM
I've given up now - we are just awful full stop. Doesn't matter who is in charge, it's the same outcome
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on January 12, 2019, 05:02:59 PM
I am starting to think that, unless our new owners can find a way around FFP to pump huge amounts of cash into the club, we are on for a Leeds-style proper long stay in this division.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on January 12, 2019, 05:06:00 PM
championship team with a championship manager
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 12, 2019, 05:06:05 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on January 12, 2019, 04:57:51 PM
We look so unfit week in, week out, it's untrue.

DS needs time, of course he does, we can't be saying that the players are all dog shit but then at the same time say it's all his fault.

Some of them - Neil Taylor, for example, Whelan, Bjarnason are not good enough at this level. And by that I mean not that they can't do the odd thing right, but that they can not consistently perform. They're just not up to it.

Nope agree, it’s the deterioration that worries me. The players that don’t fit in the ‘utterly hopeless’ camp are turning in regular below par displays as well. We look like we’ve never been coached at the moment, that doesn’t reflect well on the manager and his staff.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TonyD on January 12, 2019, 05:06:50 PM
The home Blues game seems a distant memory.

What the fuck has gone wrong?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: curiousorange on January 12, 2019, 05:07:44 PM
Genuine question, but has anybody actually asked Smith why performances have tailed off so much?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 12, 2019, 05:13:33 PM
The thing is, and this is beyond Dean’s control but he’s got to deal with it, we’ve been diabolical by and large for a decade. Therefore the patience of the fan base is justifiably short. Villa fans are tired and without signs of progress faith will be lost quickly.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on January 12, 2019, 05:13:59 PM
Smith was fucking clueless today. Leaves Taylor on after he’s given an absolutely dreadful perfirmance, then when we’re chasing the game, brings on Whelan and Hause. That is fucking dreadful management quite frankly. We didn’t get rid of Bruce snd his shit tactics to accept rubbish like that.

Wigan absolutely played us off the pitch.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on January 12, 2019, 05:14:10 PM
At Walsall and Brentford there were seasons when things were ticking along nicely and then out of nowhere a 10 match winless run would occur.

Looks like same is happening here. From a very promising run up to middle of December and in four short weeks we now look like we can't pass a ball or even score a goal.

Never mind Steve Bruce this is Lambert-esque in his first season here.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 12, 2019, 05:15:48 PM
Quote from: Risso on January 12, 2019, 05:13:59 PM
Smith was fucking clueless today. Leaves Taylor on after he’s given an absolutely dreadful perfirmance, then when we’re chasing the game, brings on Whelan and Hause. That is fucking dreadful management quite frankly. We didn’t get rid of Bruce snd his shit tactics to accept rubbish like that.

Wigan absolutely played us off the pitch.

Exactly, and yes he needs time but those fundamental flaws are unforgivable irrespective of the time he’s been in charge.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: curiousorange on January 12, 2019, 05:20:36 PM
I don't know when or where this is going to come from, but I feel like he needs an easy win where everything goes right. That was a nightmare run of fixtures up to the New Year, but now we're at 'easy' games and it's not happening, there's no time for him to make these kinds of mistakes - fans just don't have the patience. They want to see the good team in the winnable fixtures and that's the problem: that team has disappeared and there are no hints that it will ever be seen again.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: walsall villain on January 12, 2019, 05:20:51 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on January 12, 2019, 05:14:10 PM
At Walsall and Brentford there were seasons when things were ticking along nicely and then out of nowhere a 10 match winless run would occur.

Looks like same is happening here. From a very promising run up to middle of December and in four short weeks we now look like we can't pass a ball or even score a goal.

Never mind Steve Bruce this is Lambert-esque in his first season here.
Isn’t it looking similar to Bruce’s first season? I remember we were all over the place when all the January signings were introduced. I must admit I’m shocked at our current horrors, didn’t see it coming.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on January 12, 2019, 05:20:55 PM
His game management has been really poor in recent weeks.

Was too slow to react to Leeds dominanting at even 2-0 down and look what happens.

Can't understand why today at 1-0 down he leaves two strikers on the bench. The trio change made us even worse.

Dean Smith is struggling atm and still has a lot to learn at this level. He will now feel pressure he hasn't felt at his previous clubs with this winless run.

Worry for me he didn't get a reaction from last week's poor display. That's never a good sign to me with regards the long term.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on January 12, 2019, 05:22:49 PM
Quote from: walsall villain on January 12, 2019, 05:20:51 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on January 12, 2019, 05:14:10 PM
At Walsall and Brentford there were seasons when things were ticking along nicely and then out of nowhere a 10 match winless run would occur.

Looks like same is happening here. From a very promising run up to middle of December and in four short weeks we now look like we can't pass a ball or even score a goal.

Never mind Steve Bruce this is Lambert-esque in his first season here.
Isn’t it looking similar to Bruce’s first season? I remember we were all over the place when all the January signings were introduced. I must admit I’m shocked at our current horrors, didn’t see it coming.

Yes could be right.

When SB came in we picked up results and were looking o.k until middle of December and then completely fell off the pace.

Reality is third season down here and what we've invested things should be so much better regardless of losing a player or two from injury.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: walsall villain on January 12, 2019, 05:25:01 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on January 12, 2019, 05:22:49 PM
Quote from: walsall villain on January 12, 2019, 05:20:51 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on January 12, 2019, 05:14:10 PM
At Walsall and Brentford there were seasons when things were ticking along nicely and then out of nowhere a 10 match winless run would occur.

Looks like same is happening here. From a very promising run up to middle of December and in four short weeks we now look like we can't pass a ball or even score a goal.

Never mind Steve Bruce this is Lambert-esque in his first season here.
Isn’t it looking similar to Bruce’s first season? I remember we were all over the place when all the January signings were introduced. I must admit I’m shocked at our current horrors, didn’t see it coming.

Yes could be right.

When SB came in we picked up results and were looking o.k until middle of December and then completely fell off the pace.

Reality is third season down here and what we've invested things should be so much better regardless of losing a player or two from injury.
I feared a long stay after relegation and it’s going to be.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 12, 2019, 05:25:09 PM
His points per game ratio now the same as Thereorthereabouts
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: curiousorange on January 12, 2019, 05:26:59 PM
Difference was, there was a genuine optimism in that January when we brought all of those players, at least until we got tonked by Brentford in the first fixture afterwards. I don't see where that optimism is going to come from this time around, short of signing Felipe Coutinho.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on January 12, 2019, 05:28:53 PM
Quote from: curiousorange on January 12, 2019, 05:26:59 PM
Difference was, there was a genuine optimism in that January when we brought all of those players, at least until we got tonked by Brentford in the first fixture afterwards. I don't see where that optimism is going to come from this time around, short of signing Felipe Coutinho.

Still somehow only 5 points off play offs (unless Hull have now gone into the top 6 with their incredible run). Think the gap was more in SB season.

Obviously that gap is only going to increase unless we shake off the malaise in next few weeks.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: curiousorange on January 12, 2019, 05:35:06 PM
To be honest, I'm not sure I want to get into the play-offs because of the mess we're in. But the reason we need to keep going for it, for me, is it's symbolic that we're at least trying to be a decent side again. The minute we're not in the mix for it is the minute the season's over and we lose a little more relevance to potential incomings every season we waste.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy65 on January 12, 2019, 05:35:26 PM
You do wonder sometimes do these players look at Smith and think what the F have you ever done. Are they thinking who the F are Brentford and Walsall. This just transfers into a lack of respect and poor attitude particularly when things go wrong. Footballers aren’t known for their lack of ego’s

Remember this is the same group of players who didn’t exactly help themselves at the tail end of the Bruce reign so they have form for not giving two flying F’s.

Smith is under pressure now and does he have the respect of the players or board to pull it around? This was my concern from the start that he didn’t have any form of track record. Nice guy and all that and I just don’t hope the fans don’t turn.

He needs to make some bold decisions now. Whether that’s in personnel or tactics but currently it isnt working.

I just hope he is give until at least the end of this season to start to turn it around and introduce his own playing style. We also need 2 or 3 reinforcements before the end of Jan
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: curiousorange on January 12, 2019, 05:37:39 PM
There's a lot of talk about Smith being given time, which I absolutely agree with, but as we've seen with Rowett this week, you don't have to be at a club for a couple of seasons before owners get itchy trigger fingers.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 12, 2019, 05:39:17 PM
Well no and you get time if there’s clear signs that things are moving in the right direction. There’s no sign of that at the moment, quite the opposite.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: curiousorange on January 12, 2019, 05:41:59 PM
Our owners aren't philanthropists. They've saved our bacon already and they'll want to see some return on the punt they took. Scrapping around the middle of a league containing Rotherham, Millwall and yes, Wigan isn't what they'll have had in mind.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy65 on January 12, 2019, 05:42:16 PM
Quote from: curiousorange on January 12, 2019, 05:37:39 PM
There's a lot of talk about Smith being given time, which I absolutely agree with, but as we've seen with Rowett this week, you don't have to be at a club for a couple of seasons before owners get itchy trigger fingers.

And billionaires, let alone two of them aren’t known for their patience. He has got to be given until the end of the season at least
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on January 12, 2019, 05:42:39 PM
Remember same Manager ripped apart Boro and Derby away 3-0. The problem is since than other teams have realised how Smith plays and counteracted to nullify our players. In turn our current squad are nowhere near good enough to get round opposition tactics. This is players job on the pitch not Managers. Better quality players would find a way to still play the sort of football that blew away Middlesbrough and Derby etc.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 12, 2019, 05:43:50 PM
Post match interview. He looks a bit lost and he’s right he needs to look at himself in the mirror also. It’s honest but that’s not changing anything right now.

https://twitter.com/avfcofficial/status/1084141689588072448?s=12
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 12, 2019, 05:45:26 PM
Yes I thought very honest, but didn’t fill me with much confidence.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villafirst on January 12, 2019, 05:49:45 PM
Is this yet another Manager who's going to be chewed up by the Club?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on January 12, 2019, 05:51:29 PM
other teams are now doing to us, what we were doing to them when Smith first came here.  Press Chester and he will give you the ball, decent defender but not a great footballer, same as Taylor, Bree, Hutton and Elphick.  Hourihane and Whelan are so one dimensional, slow or anonymous they are not worth their place in the squad.  Hourihane and Lansbury came to us as big fish in small pools and they have been found out.  I know Hourihane scored, what, 11 goals last season, but he was freed from defensive duties and we are now asking more from him and he cannot deliver.  Bolasie and El Ghazi are so inconsistent, they will do one good thing and five poor, so what's the point in having them?  Sadly, Smith's decisions making and 'go to' players are the only ones he has available. 

Smith really needs fresh blood as he is quickly falling foul of a bad tempered, short of patience fan base that has simply had enough of the same old shit.   That said, he is absolutely contributing to his own down fall.  We are not a team.  We are a group of individual players thrown together and hoping it comes off. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 12, 2019, 05:54:23 PM
Quote from: olaftab on January 12, 2019, 05:42:39 PM
Remember same Manager ripped apart Boro and Derby away 3-0. The problem is since than other teams have realised how Smith plays and counteracted to nullify our players. In turn our current squad are nowhere near good enough to get round opposition tactics. This is players job on the pitch not Managers. Better quality players would find a way to still play the sort of football that blew away Middlesbrough and Derby etc.

Sorry but that’s the manager’s responsibility as well. If teams adjust to our style, the manager needs to adjust tactics to counteract that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: curiousorange on January 12, 2019, 05:54:25 PM
Yes, I think that's the key - new players in the squad. At the moment it looks stale, like trying to wow Paris Fashion Week with the contents of your late grandfather's wardrobe. But how likely that is with FFP, I don't know.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villafirst on January 12, 2019, 05:57:43 PM
So yet another training injury, this time Jonathan Kodjia - precisely what is going on in training sessions? Talk about shooting yourself in the foot!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on January 12, 2019, 05:59:58 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on January 12, 2019, 05:43:50 PM
Post match interview. He looks a bit lost and he’s right he needs to look at himself in the mirror also. It’s honest but that’s not changing anything right now.

https://twitter.com/avfcofficial/status/1084141689588072448?s=12

Why don't they ever ask about potential transfers when they interview.  Three questions; what went wrong today, how are you going to put it right, can you provide an update on potential transfers. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 12, 2019, 06:01:53 PM
He’s answered questions on transfers during the week. What more is he going to say other than what he’s already said that they are looking at a number of players? He’s hardly going to name players or even positions to strengthen.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: curiousorange on January 12, 2019, 06:02:45 PM
Quote from: Villafirst on January 12, 2019, 05:57:43 PM
So yet another training injury, this time Jonathan Kodjia - precisely what is going on in training sessions? Talk about shooting yourself in the foot!

We ought to flog the whole place to HS2. Not only is it injuring any players that set foot on the place, but any residual success it might have been responsible for back in the day has long since vanished.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AlexAlexCropley on January 12, 2019, 06:03:19 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on January 12, 2019, 06:01:53 PM
He’s answered questions on transfers during the week. What more is he going to say other than what he’s already said that they are looking at a number of players? He’s hardly going to name players or even positions to strengthen.
O        k then
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 12, 2019, 06:05:42 PM
Quote from: AlexAlexCropley on January 12, 2019, 06:03:19 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on January 12, 2019, 06:01:53 PM
He’s answered questions on transfers during the week. What more is he going to say other than what he’s already said that they are looking at a number of players? He’s hardly going to name players or even positions to strengthen.
O        k then

WTF does that mean? You seem to be a bit obsessed with me.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on January 12, 2019, 06:05:49 PM
where's the attacking football gone, the risk taking the pressing, the defined system that he's known for playing,
the attractive front foot we'll get one more than you stuff gone,

he's gone from that to bringing on Whelan to try and hold on to a 2-0 defeat in just a few short months

he's turned into every other British manager
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SheffieldVillain on January 12, 2019, 06:06:32 PM
Quote from: Newby on January 12, 2019, 05:51:29 PM
other teams are now doing to us, what we were doing to them when Smith first came here.  Press Chester and he will give you the ball, decent defender but not a great footballer, same as Taylor, Bree, Hutton and Elphick.  Hourihane and Whelan are so one dimensional, slow or anonymous they are not worth their place in the squad.  Hourihane and Lansbury came to us as big fish in small pools and they have been found out.  I know Hourihane scored, what, 11 goals last season, but he was freed from defensive duties and we are now asking more from him and he cannot deliver.  Bolasie and El Ghazi are so inconsistent, they will do one good thing and five poor, so what's the point in having them?  Sadly, Smith's decisions making and 'go to' players are the only ones he has available. 

Smith really needs fresh blood as he is quickly falling foul of a bad tempered, short of patience fan base that has simply had enough of the same old shit.   That said, he is absolutely contributing to his own down fall.  We are not a team.  We are a group of individual players thrown together and hoping it comes off. 

Pretty much exactly how I feel.
- Yes, Whelan's shit. So put in Hourihane. Oh, he can't do the job either. Or Bjarneson - poor today. Or Lansbury - can't tackle and usually injured anyway.
- Drop Taylor. And put in a right-footed Hutton who has been shit at left-back all season. Or Bree who is a young kid who isn't a left-back either.
- Tuanzebe's out. So bring back Elphick who is average at best. Or play Jedinak there who is injured and crap at centre half. Or some untried kid from the youth team (Suliman or Bedeau) who the regular youth-team watchers don't think are up to it.
- If Tammy were out - we've got Kodija who isn't half the player he was before his injury, Davis who is just back from months out or Hogan who is shit.

For the amount of money we've spent, the depth of our squad is absolutely appalling. We've got a collection of players who were either good in YouTube highlights or were good about five years ago.  At a minimum we need a left back and holding midfielder now just to have a chance of the playoffs, but come the summer there needs to be a big turnover of players.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 12, 2019, 06:07:53 PM
Next summer I want us to do away with loans. We need to start again from the ground up. Buy players, use the academy. Tammy has been great but we need to have more long term certainty. And we absolutely have to much younger, faster and more energetic.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: jwarry on January 12, 2019, 06:08:19 PM
Quote from: Newby on January 12, 2019, 05:59:58 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on January 12, 2019, 05:43:50 PM
Post match interview. He looks a bit lost and he’s right he needs to look at himself in the mirror also. It’s honest but that’s not changing anything right now.

https://twitter.com/avfcofficial/status/1084141689588072448?s=12

Why don't they ever ask about potential transfers when they interview.  Three questions; what went wrong today, how are you going to put it right, can you provide an update on potential transfers. 

Not sure how he thanks we were ok tactically 😳
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Hairbandinho on January 12, 2019, 06:08:49 PM
Has the job started to overwhelm him already? Seems that way. Everyone here wants him to succeed but the signs are not good are they?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on January 12, 2019, 06:08:55 PM
Quote from: SheffieldVillain on January 12, 2019, 06:06:32 PM
Quote from: Newby on January 12, 2019, 05:51:29 PM
other teams are now doing to us, what we were doing to them when Smith first came here.  Press Chester and he will give you the ball, decent defender but not a great footballer, same as Taylor, Bree, Hutton and Elphick.  Hourihane and Whelan are so one dimensional, slow or anonymous they are not worth their place in the squad.  Hourihane and Lansbury came to us as big fish in small pools and they have been found out.  I know Hourihane scored, what, 11 goals last season, but he was freed from defensive duties and we are now asking more from him and he cannot deliver.  Bolasie and El Ghazi are so inconsistent, they will do one good thing and five poor, so what's the point in having them?  Sadly, Smith's decisions making and 'go to' players are the only ones he has available. 

Smith really needs fresh blood as he is quickly falling foul of a bad tempered, short of patience fan base that has simply had enough of the same old shit.   That said, he is absolutely contributing to his own down fall.  We are not a team.  We are a group of individual players thrown together and hoping it comes off. 

Pretty much exactly how I feel.
- Yes, Whelan's shit. So put in Hourihane. Oh, he can't do the job either. Or Bjarneson - poor today. Or Lansbury - can't tackle and usually injured anyway.
- Drop Taylor. And put in a right-footed Hutton who has been shit at left-back all season. Or Bree who is a young kid who isn't a left-back either.
- Tuanzebe's out. So bring back Elphick who is average at best. Or play Jedinak there who is injured and crap at centre half. Or some untried kid from the youth team (Suliman or Bedeau) who the regular youth-team watchers don't think are up to it.
- If Tammy were out - we've got Kodija who isn't half the player he was before his injury, Davis who is just back from months out or Hogan who is shit.

For the amount of money we've spent, the depth of our squad is absolutely appalling. We've got a collection of players who were either good in YouTube highlights or were good about five years ago.  At a minimum we need a left back and holding midfielder now just to have a chance of the playoffs, but come the summer there needs to be a big turnover of players.

Very well put.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on January 12, 2019, 06:09:09 PM
Quote from: SheffieldVillain on January 12, 2019, 06:06:32 PM
Quote from: Newby on January 12, 2019, 05:51:29 PM
other teams are now doing to us, what we were doing to them when Smith first came here.  Press Chester and he will give you the ball, decent defender but not a great footballer, same as Taylor, Bree, Hutton and Elphick.  Hourihane and Whelan are so one dimensional, slow or anonymous they are not worth their place in the squad.  Hourihane and Lansbury came to us as big fish in small pools and they have been found out.  I know Hourihane scored, what, 11 goals last season, but he was freed from defensive duties and we are now asking more from him and he cannot deliver.  Bolasie and El Ghazi are so inconsistent, they will do one good thing and five poor, so what's the point in having them?  Sadly, Smith's decisions making and 'go to' players are the only ones he has available. 

Smith really needs fresh blood as he is quickly falling foul of a bad tempered, short of patience fan base that has simply had enough of the same old shit.   That said, he is absolutely contributing to his own down fall.  We are not a team.  We are a group of individual players thrown together and hoping it comes off. 

Pretty much exactly how I feel.
- Yes, Whelan's shit. So put in Hourihane. Oh, he can't do the job either. Or Bjarneson - poor today. Or Lansbury - can't tackle and usually injured anyway.
- Drop Taylor. And put in a right-footed Hutton who has been shit at left-back all season. Or Bree who is a young kid who isn't a left-back either.
- Tuanzebe's out. So bring back Elphick who is average at best. Or play Jedinak there who is injured and crap at centre half. Or some untried kid from the youth team (Suliman or Bedeau) who the regular youth-team watchers don't think are up to it.
- If Tammy were out - we've got Kodija who isn't half the player he was before his injury, Davis who is just back from months out or Hogan who is shit.

For the amount of money we've spent, the depth of our squad is absolutely appalling. We've got a collection of players who were either good in YouTube highlights or were good about five years ago.  At a minimum we need a left back and holding midfielder now just to have a chance of the playoffs, but come the summer there needs to be a big turnover of players.

can't argue with either of the posts above
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on January 12, 2019, 06:10:47 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on January 12, 2019, 06:07:53 PM
Next summer I want us to do away with loans. We need to start again from the ground up. Buy players, use the academy. Tammy has been great but we need to have more long term certainty. And we absolutely have to much younger, faster and more energetic.

Completely disagree. Get whatever players it takes to get promoted. We will then be in position to make much better permanent signings than we can down here.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on January 12, 2019, 06:11:29 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on January 12, 2019, 06:07:53 PM
Next summer I want us to do away with loans. We need to start again from the ground up. Buy players, use the academy. Tammy has been great but we need to have more long term certainty. And we absolutely have to much younger, faster and more energetic.

agree, but might as well start now
Fuck them all off including Tammy, we will never build anything on shifting sands, and we won't know exactly what we have until the decks are cleared of hired mercenaries
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on January 12, 2019, 06:12:48 PM
I agree with you john e.  He is no longer what was written on the tin.  Is it permanent?  Who knows.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: curiousorange on January 12, 2019, 06:13:35 PM
Part of me feels we need the patented nasty bastard to help us cope in this division. But then we got one, namely Jedinak, and the problem with nasty bastards is that they're only worth having if they can play as well.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: BC Villain on January 12, 2019, 06:17:39 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on January 12, 2019, 05:54:23 PM
Quote from: olaftab on January 12, 2019, 05:42:39 PM
Remember same Manager ripped apart Boro and Derby away 3-0. The problem is since than other teams have realised how Smith plays and counteracted to nullify our players. In turn our current squad are nowhere near good enough to get round opposition tactics. This is players job on the pitch not Managers. Better quality players would find a way to still play the sort of football that blew away Middlesbrough and Derby etc.

Sorry but that’s the manager’s responsibility as well. If teams adjust to our style, the manager needs to adjust tactics to counteract that.

Bottom line is this is Steve Bruce's team built on the same basis he builds all of his squads i.e. no thought to tactics or game plans.  Just throw a load of cash at it and hope something sticks.

Dean Smiths teams are about pressing high, possession and movement, but it's obvious most of these players can't do that, so he has to be flexible and try to do it another way.  You simply can't expect to get results conceding the amount of goals we do
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 12, 2019, 06:17:46 PM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on January 12, 2019, 06:10:47 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on January 12, 2019, 06:07:53 PM
Next summer I want us to do away with loans. We need to start again from the ground up. Buy players, use the academy. Tammy has been great but we need to have more long term certainty. And we absolutely have to much younger, faster and more energetic.

Completely disagree. Get whatever players it takes to get promoted. We will then be in position to make much better permanent signings than we can down here.

We’ve relied on loans far too much to our detriment. We don’t develop our own players. Jack aside not one player has come through. Yet you look at clubs who can’t afford to spend big money on transfers or loans and they have done just fine. Leeds will win this division with a number of astute buys, young kids and a smart manager. Dean Smith did a super job at Brentford by buying intelligently on a shoestring budget. Sometimes being Aston Villa and having a larger revenue base we have been lazy and ultimately our own worst enemies in player acquisition and use of our academy. That simply has to change.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chinchilla Bathhouse on January 12, 2019, 06:20:19 PM
We're crying out for some leadership too. When things aren't going our way we look absolutely clueless. McGinn tries to take the game by the scruff of the neck and lead by example but he's completely on his own. The rest just buckle under the slightest pressure and capitulate, mentally and physically.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 12, 2019, 06:20:29 PM
Loans are fine if they’re used right. You bring in then to supplement and add quality to a stable core of a squad. That’s where adding quality like Tammy is perfect.

The solution isn’t to do away with loans, it’s to use them to bring in additional quality.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on January 12, 2019, 06:24:32 PM
Quote from: curiousorange on January 12, 2019, 05:37:39 PM
There's a lot of talk about Smith being given time, which I absolutely agree with, but as we've seen with Rowett this week, you don't have to be at a club for a couple of seasons before owners get itchy trigger fingers.

Difference is Rowett had pre season to shape things and get his signings in.

Don't think DS is in any imminent danger unless we fail to win again until March which I guess could happen way we're playing.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: myf on January 12, 2019, 06:29:25 PM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on January 12, 2019, 06:10:47 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on January 12, 2019, 06:07:53 PM
Next summer I want us to do away with loans. We need to start again from the ground up. Buy players, use the academy. Tammy has been great but we need to have more long term certainty. And we absolutely have to much younger, faster and more energetic.

Completely disagree. Get whatever players it takes to get promoted. We will then be in position to make much better permanent signings than we can down here.

we've tried this and it's failed. repetitive cycle of building a team from fresh each season. 1 or 2 loans is fine but we're paying the cost after last year and we'll be in a similar position come May
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villafirst on January 12, 2019, 06:31:05 PM
I watched the U23's thrash Man United 5-1 the other night. They looked organised and disciplined - they surely couldn't do any worse than that absolute shower today? They can actually pass the ball to a player in the same colour shirt!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on January 12, 2019, 06:31:44 PM
Didn't do Watford any harm. We can't go out and get eleven players then replace them all when we go up. The loan players aren't to blame for our predicament. Or for us not going up last season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rigadon on January 12, 2019, 06:35:28 PM
It will be now when he properly realises that he isn't at Brentford.  How he reacts will make / break him.  Good managers come through spells like this, so let's hope our Dean does. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on January 12, 2019, 06:39:58 PM
the problem with throwing in our own the youth players like O'Hare, Davis, Revan, Doyle-Hayes, Green, RHM, is that they are not good enough

if we did start playing them we could easily risk going to a shit arsed club like say Wigan and getting played off the park whilst being handed our arse in a humiliating 2 or 3 goal thrashing

think we're better off sticking to the experienced and loanees to make sure that never happens
all to risky
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 12, 2019, 06:42:46 PM
What I don’t get is how other teams are brave enough to try their young players? Why are ours never ready or good enough? The only player good enough has been Jack and he’s head and shoulders over most kids coming through at any club at this level. So it means other clubs introduce players who aren’t as good but then through experience they improve. We need to start trusting our academy more simply not have one.

Edit: look at someone like Bannan or Daniel Johnson. They became so much better at this level simply because they got playing time after leaving us.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AlexAlexCropley on January 12, 2019, 06:44:53 PM
Quote from: john e on January 12, 2019, 06:39:58 PM
the problem with throwing in our own the youth players like O'Hare, Davis, Revan, Doyle-Hayes, Green, RHM, is that they are not good enough

if we did start playing them we could easily risk going to a shit arsed club like say Wigan and getting played off the park whilst being handed our arse in a humiliating 2 or 3 goal thrashing

think we're better off sticking to the experienced and loanees to make sure that never happens
all to risky
Very good
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: garyshawsknee on January 12, 2019, 06:45:00 PM
We've had two shocking performances in a row, but a month ago we were the inform team. DS is struggling with a lack of options, we have 4 full backs on the books, none of them any good, one decent centre back and no decent defensive midfielder. He has little to play with and Jack's injury has magnified this. A couple of good signings can spark a return to form, but they have to happen quickly.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on January 12, 2019, 06:45:02 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on January 12, 2019, 06:42:46 PM
What I don’t get is how other teams are brave enough to try their young players? Why are ours never ready or good enough? The only player good enough has been Jack and he’s head and shoulders over most kids coming through at any club at this level. So it means other clubs introduce players who aren’t as good but then through experience they improve. We need to start trusting our academy more simply not have one.

we were told Smith was the man to do that instead he's become BFF with Whelan
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rico on January 12, 2019, 06:58:04 PM
The turn around in form has been incredible. From being the swashbuckling team of pre Christmas to this in double quick time makes me think that he might have had a fall out with some of the senior players. Maybe he has dished out a few home truths and someone's spat the dummy out. Needs sorting double quick. I hope to God that we're not about to witness the second coming of Graham Turner.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: stuart445 on January 12, 2019, 07:18:50 PM
Well that was another Stella performance wasn't it, so King Smith has had a new manager bounce but now it's actually worse than when Bruce was here, I'd even go as far as saying today was worse than anything we produced in our relegation season
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on January 12, 2019, 07:19:14 PM
Did Purslow make the right decision 3 months ago? How can things change so drastically from shit to decent and then shit again?
We clearly need to support the manager and over a prolonged period but was appointing a manager who was used to working with lesser expectations too much ?
So many questions ......
Maybe we all need to be pragmatic and forget all about promotion this season and look to establish a new model and squad at seasons end
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on January 12, 2019, 07:19:43 PM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 12, 2019, 07:18:50 PM
Well that was another Stella performance wasn't it, so King Smith has had a new manager bounce but now it's actually worse than when Bruce was here, I'd even go as far as saying today was worse than anything we produced in our relegation season

You sound delighted.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: XXVilla on January 12, 2019, 07:21:03 PM
If things carry on this way we’ll have a new manager next season
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Stu on January 12, 2019, 07:21:24 PM
Stella, mate.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Stu on January 12, 2019, 07:22:06 PM
Quote from: XXVilla on January 12, 2019, 07:21:03 PM
If things carry on this way we’ll have a new manager next season

I mean, it really may as well be Ads if that happens.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: stuart445 on January 12, 2019, 07:23:55 PM
Quote from: Ads on January 12, 2019, 07:19:43 PM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 12, 2019, 07:18:50 PM
Well that was another Stella performance wasn't it, so King Smith has had a new manager bounce but now it's actually worse than when Bruce was here, I'd even go as far as saying today was worse than anything we produced in our relegation season

You sound delighted.

I'm actually fuming, I'm not like the Bruce haters who got all exited when we lost a game when he was in charge.

Why exactly did he bring Hause on?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on January 12, 2019, 07:25:52 PM
You sounded very excited in that post. You just did exactly what you have a go at other people for. "King Smith" is the proof. Pathetic.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: XXVilla on January 12, 2019, 07:27:06 PM
Quote from: Stu on January 12, 2019, 07:22:06 PM
Quote from: XXVilla on January 12, 2019, 07:21:03 PM
If things carry on this way we’ll have a new manager next season

I mean, it really may as well be Ads if that happens.

What?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on January 12, 2019, 07:28:39 PM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 12, 2019, 07:23:55 PM
Quote from: Ads on January 12, 2019, 07:19:43 PM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 12, 2019, 07:18:50 PM
Well that was another Stella performance wasn't it, so King Smith has had a new manager bounce but now it's actually worse than when Bruce was here, I'd even go as far as saying today was worse than anything we produced in our relegation season

You sound delighted.

I'm actually fuming, I'm not like the Bruce haters who got all exited when we lost a game when he was in charge.

Why exactly did he bring Hause on?

Even if Smith does turn out to be shite, it doesn't mean that Steve Bruce wasn't.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: stuart445 on January 12, 2019, 07:28:41 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on January 12, 2019, 07:25:52 PM
You sounded very excited in that post. You just did exactly what you have a go at other people for. "King Smith" is the proof. Pathetic.

It's called a dig at all the Smith people who believe he should never be questioned,
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on January 12, 2019, 07:29:50 PM
It's called you coming across as gloating because we lost, which to be honest comes as no surprise from you.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chinchilla Bathhouse on January 12, 2019, 07:31:50 PM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 12, 2019, 07:28:41 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on January 12, 2019, 07:25:52 PM
You sounded very excited in that post. You just did exactly what you have a go at other people for. "King Smith" is the proof. Pathetic.

It's called a dig at all the Smith people who believe he should never be questioned,

Who are they then? Everyone's questioning him tonight.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: stuart445 on January 12, 2019, 07:32:02 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on January 12, 2019, 07:29:50 PM
It's called you coming across as gloating because we lost, which to be honest comes as no surprise from you.

Believe what you like, it's called over a season of having to deal with people constantly going on about how great it would be if we had Smith instead of Bruce.  Well Smith is here now and it's actually worse.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Stu on January 12, 2019, 07:33:17 PM
Quote from: XXVilla on January 12, 2019, 07:27:06 PM
Quote from: Stu on January 12, 2019, 07:22:06 PM
Quote from: XXVilla on January 12, 2019, 07:21:03 PM
If things carry on this way we’ll have a new manager next season

I mean, it really may as well be Ads if that happens.

What?
Quote from: XXVilla on January 12, 2019, 07:27:06 PM
Quote from: Stu on January 12, 2019, 07:22:06 PM
Quote from: XXVilla on January 12, 2019, 07:21:03 PM
If things carry on this way we’ll have a new manager next season

I mean, it really may as well be Ads if that happens.

What?

Sorry. I meant to say Ads AGAIN.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on January 12, 2019, 07:33:32 PM
And even if it was just a 'dig', that your first thought after a shit result was to deliberately have a dig at fellow Villa fans speaks volumes.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on January 12, 2019, 07:34:15 PM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 12, 2019, 07:28:41 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on January 12, 2019, 07:25:52 PM
You sounded very excited in that post. You just did exactly what you have a go at other people for. "King Smith" is the proof. Pathetic.

It's called a dig at all the Smith people who believe he should never be questioned,

Name one.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: stuart445 on January 12, 2019, 07:34:36 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on January 12, 2019, 07:33:32 PM
And even if it was just a 'dig', that your first thought after a shit result was to deliberately have a dig at fellow Villa fans speaks volumes.

You mean like the Bruce haters did when we last a game when he was in charge?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Stu on January 12, 2019, 07:35:37 PM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 12, 2019, 07:28:41 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on January 12, 2019, 07:25:52 PM
You sounded very excited in that post. You just did exactly what you have a go at other people for. "King Smith" is the proof. Pathetic.

It's called a dig at all the Smith people who believe he should never be questioned,

Yeah, like that was a thing. And why dig at people now anyway? We're all upset; don't come the whole 'I told you so' shit.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on January 12, 2019, 07:36:07 PM
Stay classy Stuart.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AlexAlexCropley on January 12, 2019, 07:37:01 PM
Fans turning  on each other in the stands and now on the boards.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Stu on January 12, 2019, 07:38:02 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on January 12, 2019, 07:36:07 PM
Stay classy Stuart.

It's natural for me, Pete. I'm a classy, classy man. Ask my wife*



*Don't actually ask my wife
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on January 12, 2019, 07:38:46 PM
Stuart, not Stu! I love you Stu!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on January 12, 2019, 07:39:24 PM
Quote from: AlexAlexCropley on January 12, 2019, 07:37:01 PM
Fans turning  on each other in the stands and now on the boards.

Mon then.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Stu on January 12, 2019, 07:39:56 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on January 12, 2019, 07:38:46 PM
Stuart, not Stu! I love you Stu!

Well shucks, man. I love you, too
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on January 12, 2019, 07:40:27 PM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on January 12, 2019, 07:39:24 PM
Quote from: AlexAlexCropley on January 12, 2019, 07:37:01 PM
Fans turning  on each other in the stands and now on the boards.

Mon then.

This fecker is even bringing up Pubehead, have him!!!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on January 12, 2019, 07:40:33 PM
What are you looking at?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AlexAlexCropley on January 12, 2019, 07:40:55 PM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on January 12, 2019, 07:39:24 PM
Quote from: AlexAlexCropley on January 12, 2019, 07:37:01 PM
Fans turning  on each other in the stands and now on the boards.

Mon then.
Geh teh fuh yuh wee basa
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on January 12, 2019, 07:41:22 PM
Quote from: themossman on January 12, 2019, 07:40:33 PM
What are you looking at?

Did you spill my glass of Cinzano?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 12, 2019, 07:43:08 PM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 12, 2019, 07:32:02 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on January 12, 2019, 07:29:50 PM
It's called you coming across as gloating because we lost, which to be honest comes as no surprise from you.

Believe what you like, it's called over a season of having to deal with people constantly going on about how great it would be if we had Smith instead of Bruce.  Well Smith is here now and it's actually worse.

He’s had 3 months. Bruce had 2 seasons and 2 full transfer windows filling us with utter gash that Smith has had to make the best of. Smith deserves criticism and he accepts it something Bruce never did. Right now you may as well change your name to Alex Bruce because that’s who you’re sounding like.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Stu on January 12, 2019, 07:46:24 PM
We're all mates, though, like.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on January 12, 2019, 07:48:04 PM
Things have barely been the same since I offered to stroke his balls after Boro. I almost blame myself.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on January 12, 2019, 07:51:04 PM
Quote from: AlexAlexCropley on January 12, 2019, 07:40:55 PM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on January 12, 2019, 07:39:24 PM
Quote from: AlexAlexCropley on January 12, 2019, 07:37:01 PM
Fans turning  on each other in the stands and now on the boards.

Mon then.
Geh teh fuh yuh wee basa

Ye jess winnae let it go
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on January 12, 2019, 07:53:46 PM
There is only one priority now.  To use the rest of this season to clear out every twig of the dead wood at the club so that we can hit the ground running next season.   That MUST include giving all our youngest players every chance to prove themselves with us including those loaned out.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on January 12, 2019, 07:59:46 PM
Quote from: brian green on January 12, 2019, 07:53:46 PM
There is only one priority now.  To use the rest of this season to clear out every twig of the dead wood at the club so that we can hit the ground running next season.   That MUST include giving all our youngest players every chance to prove themselves with us including those loaned out.
Fully agree Brian ....worryingly though two of the teams we may be competing with next season could  be Newcastle and Fulham who will have the finances to regroup -
I was upset that we could no longer compete with Bourenemouth, Brighton and Huddersfield ...we now need to add the mighty Wigan for heaven's sake
The club have some big decisions to make and soon
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ROBBO on January 12, 2019, 08:03:37 PM
Agree too many players going through the motions, the likes of Whelan, Hourihane in fact most of the squad needs clearing out and building from scratch. Jack will be off at the end of the season so we will need a complete fresh start.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OzVilla on January 12, 2019, 08:05:49 PM
It way too early to be writing off this season yet. There’s a long way to go and the window it open for another 3 weeks. Today was clearly unacceptable though.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on January 12, 2019, 08:06:32 PM
We will get a fresh start whatever happens with so many out of contract or going back to their parent clubs - which in Bolaise's case can't come a moment too soon. The Villa 11 that inevitably kicks off in August in the Chumps is going to look very unfamiliar
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on January 12, 2019, 08:07:33 PM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 12, 2019, 07:32:02 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on January 12, 2019, 07:29:50 PM
It's called you coming across as gloating because we lost, which to be honest comes as no surprise from you.

Believe what you like, it's called over a season of having to deal with people constantly going on about how great it would be if we had Smith instead of Bruce.  Well Smith is here now and it's actually worse.

as much as you love Bruce and hate Smith (that’s your choice and it’s a free speech site)

There’s no more than a handful on here at best that would want Bruce back over Smith
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on January 12, 2019, 08:12:23 PM
I agree Oz but the realistic bet is that even if we scraped into the play offs which becomes more unlikely with every game that preparing a campaign for automatic promotion next season is less difficult with proper planning and focus.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: XXVilla on January 12, 2019, 08:15:49 PM
The question should be “what the hell has gone on since the Albion game?”
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on January 12, 2019, 08:18:28 PM
Quote from: mr underhill on January 12, 2019, 08:06:32 PM
We will get a fresh start whatever happens with so many out of contract or going back to their parent clubs - which in Bolaise's case can't come a moment too soon. The Villa 11 that inevitably kicks off in August in the Chumps is going to look very unfamiliar
You would like to think that highly paid "professionals" would give their best for the club paying them so well but I wonder if the reality is that a large portion of the squad are "sulking" as they will not be in Smith's' plans for next season
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on January 12, 2019, 08:20:04 PM
whatever it was it's had the most pernicious affect on the team. i could understand a dip in the performance immediately afterwards, due to the disappointment of losing two points to a cheat. But that doesn't explain an ineptness now going into five weeks
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on January 12, 2019, 08:38:56 PM
Quote from: XXVilla on January 12, 2019, 08:15:49 PM
The question should be “what the hell has gone on since the Albion game?”

There is one massive obvious but surely it cant just be as simple as that?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: andyh on January 12, 2019, 08:51:37 PM
Anyone notice Elphicks reaction to being subbed?
He was well pissed off. To be recalled from loan for a couple of games and then to be hauled off and replaced by ‘that’ must be fucking gauliing.

I’m not Tommy’s biggest fan and I’m sure the new guy will improve, but that was a bad substitution.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 12, 2019, 08:56:44 PM
Quote from: andyh on January 12, 2019, 08:51:37 PM
Anyone notice Elphicks reaction to being subbed?
He was well pissed off. To be recalled from loan for a couple of games and then to be hauled off and replaced by ‘that’ must be fucking gauliing.

I’m not Tommy’s biggest fan and I’m sure the new guy will improve, but that was a bad substitution.

Chester needs some time off. Both to properly recover but frankly he’s been a serious weak link this season. I think Hause will improve and while it has not chance of happening I’d play him with Elphick.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 12, 2019, 08:57:23 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on January 12, 2019, 08:38:56 PM
Quote from: XXVilla on January 12, 2019, 08:15:49 PM
The question should be “what the hell has gone on since the Albion game?”

There is one massive obvious but surely it cant just be as simple as that?
The obvious being Grealish and to an extent Tunzabee.
I think this has exposed the fact that we have a lot of players that are not good enough and or don’t care enough.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on January 12, 2019, 08:57:54 PM
It was a game of bad substitutions.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: walsall villain on January 12, 2019, 09:00:32 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on January 12, 2019, 08:57:23 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on January 12, 2019, 08:38:56 PM
Quote from: XXVilla on January 12, 2019, 08:15:49 PM
The question should be “what the hell has gone on since the Albion game?”

There is one massive obvious but surely it cant just be as simple as that?
The obvious being Grealish and to an extent Tunzabee.
I think this has exposed the fact that we have a lot of players that are not good enough and or don’t care enough.
I think it’s an ability issue  more than anything else. Press, pass and move needs energy but the difficult bit is ability.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on January 12, 2019, 09:08:21 PM
Quote from: andyh on January 12, 2019, 08:51:37 PM
Anyone notice Elphicks reaction to being subbed?
He was well pissed off. To be recalled from loan for a couple of games and then to be hauled off and replaced by ‘that’ must be fucking gauliing.

I’m not Tommy’s biggest fan and I’m sure the new guy will improve, but that was a bad substitution.

Chasing the game at 1-0, and he brings on Hause and Whelan.  Genius.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT Villan on January 12, 2019, 09:20:46 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on January 12, 2019, 08:38:56 PM
There is one massive obvious but surely it cant just be as simple as that?

We are obviously missing JG and AT, but that doesn't explain why players suddenly have no first touch, are incapable of making a 10 yd pass to a teammate or don't - as a minimum - run hard on the pitch.

and I'm going to whisper this...but I actually thought Whelan did ok when he came on.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on January 12, 2019, 09:23:24 PM
Sorry I missed that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on January 12, 2019, 09:35:16 PM
I haven't heard a Villa team booed off as savagely as that for a while.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: XXVilla on January 12, 2019, 09:37:40 PM
Quote from: walsall villain on January 12, 2019, 09:00:32 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on January 12, 2019, 08:57:23 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on January 12, 2019, 08:38:56 PM
Quote from: XXVilla on January 12, 2019, 08:15:49 PM
The question should be “what the hell has gone on since the Albion game?”

There is one massive obvious but surely it cant just be as simple as that?
The obvious being Grealish and to an extent Tunzabee.
I think this has exposed the fact that we have a lot of players that are not good enough and or don’t care enough.
I think it’s an ability issue  more than anything else. Press, pass and move needs energy but the difficult bit is ability.

But they had ability up until  the Albion game
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Des Little on January 12, 2019, 09:40:23 PM
Be interesting to see the fallout from El Ghazis outburst after he got subbed. It looked to me like he was giving Smith some abuse?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on January 12, 2019, 09:48:37 PM
Quote from: Des Little on January 12, 2019, 09:40:23 PM
Be interesting to see the fallout from El Ghazis outburst after he got subbed. It looked to me like he was giving Smith some abuse?

Him and Elphick looked mightily unimpressed.  So did Bjarnason, but he's a miserable twat the entire time anyway, so hard to know if he was pissed off specifically by that or not.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on January 12, 2019, 10:08:50 PM
Quote from: Des Little on January 12, 2019, 09:40:23 PM
Be interesting to see the fallout from El Ghazis outburst after he got subbed. It looked to me like he was giving Smith some abuse?

El Ghazi seems to think he's Messi after some decent games in December. He should realise why he's actually playing at this level.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: walsall villain on January 12, 2019, 10:09:19 PM
Quote from: XXVilla on January 12, 2019, 09:37:40 PM
Quote from: walsall villain on January 12, 2019, 09:00:32 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on January 12, 2019, 08:57:23 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on January 12, 2019, 08:38:56 PM
Quote from: XXVilla on January 12, 2019, 08:15:49 PM
The question should be “what the hell has gone on since the Albion game?”

There is one massive obvious but surely it cant just be as simple as that?
The obvious being Grealish and to an extent Tunzabee.
I think this has exposed the fact that we have a lot of players that are not good enough and or don’t care enough.
I think it’s an ability issue  more than anything else. Press, pass and move needs energy but the difficult bit is ability.

But they had ability up until  the Albion game
I think many of the first eleven are technically limited and probably aren’t up to doing what Smith wants but I can’t explain the last two performances. It’s as if they’ve never played together before. I didn’t think we relied on Grealish that much.
Very poor options in midfield at the moment.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Pvb1968 on January 12, 2019, 10:11:10 PM
Now is the time to back smith.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on January 12, 2019, 10:18:34 PM
Quote from: walsall villain on January 12, 2019, 09:00:32 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on January 12, 2019, 08:57:23 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on January 12, 2019, 08:38:56 PM
Quote from: XXVilla on January 12, 2019, 08:15:49 PM
The question should be “what the hell has gone on since the Albion game?”

There is one massive obvious but surely it cant just be as simple as that?
The obvious being Grealish and to an extent Tunzabee.
I think this has exposed the fact that we have a lot of players that are not good enough and or don’t care enough.
I think it’s an ability issue  more than anything else. Press, pass and move needs energy but the difficult bit is ability.

Combination of things. Jack obviously and we've become really poor in attack.

Then losing Axel. O.k our defence still wasn't great when he was playing but he himself was playing well so 1 out of 5 in the unit as opposed to none of them now.

Also think giving up the lead and losing v Leeds has totally thrown us. Now we lack confidence when leading in games (couldn't see out QPR and PNE when winning) and seems like all opposition now saw how Leeds killed us attacking both fullbacks and now they're all doing it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on January 12, 2019, 10:19:29 PM
Quote from: Pvb1968 on January 12, 2019, 10:11:10 PM
Now is the time to back smith.
Smith has unanimous backing, we are all desperate for this one to succeed. He can absolutely be questioned on his decisions though.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: XXVilla on January 12, 2019, 10:22:00 PM
Quote from: walsall villain on January 12, 2019, 10:09:19 PM
Quote from: XXVilla on January 12, 2019, 09:37:40 PM
Quote from: walsall villain on January 12, 2019, 09:00:32 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on January 12, 2019, 08:57:23 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on January 12, 2019, 08:38:56 PM
Quote from: XXVilla on January 12, 2019, 08:15:49 PM
The question should be “what the hell has gone on since the Albion game?”

There is one massive obvious but surely it cant just be as simple as that?
The obvious being Grealish and to an extent Tunzabee.
I think this has exposed the fact that we have a lot of players that are not good enough and or don’t care enough.
I think it’s an ability issue  more than anything else. Press, pass and move needs energy but the difficult bit is ability.

But they had ability up until  the Albion game
I think many of the first eleven are technically limited and probably aren’t up to doing what Smith wants but I can’t explain the last two performances. It’s as if they’ve never played together before. I didn’t think we relied on Grealish that much.
Very poor options in midfield at the moment.

Well we can’t sign the Man City squad en masse, so Dean’s going to have to try harder with what he’s got
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Proposition Joe on January 12, 2019, 10:22:21 PM
Quote from: curiousorange on January 12, 2019, 06:02:45 PM
Quote from: Villafirst on January 12, 2019, 05:57:43 PM
So yet another training injury, this time Jonathan Kodjia - precisely what is going on in training sessions? Talk about shooting yourself in the foot!

We ought to flog the whole place to HS2. Not only is it injuring any players that set foot on the place, but any residual success it might have been responsible for back in the day has long since vanished.

Yes, yes, and three times yes.  Bulldoze the place and create a new one somewhere else. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on January 12, 2019, 10:51:38 PM
Our expectation  of promotion was based on an erroneous belief that this squad of players is more than good enough to dispatch all comers and walk this league providing we had the right Manager.  Clearly Bruce was no good so bring in someone else  and we will go on an endless winning run culminating in championship trophy being handed to us come May. Well the reality is that these players, a collection of has beens, can't be bothered and wannabe CL primadonnas are nowhere near good enough to do what's required. Smith really needs to be given the backing to clear out this rotten squad and build new from bottom up. And if Smith doesn't think that's the case and mere tinkering will fix the problem than he is not the man we need to get this great Club moving upwards again.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brassneck on January 12, 2019, 10:54:24 PM
I'm 100% behind DS.

In hindsight, I'd possibly question the substitutions but remember, we were only 1 down at that point and the only other option was to bring 1 of Davies or Hogan on and go 442.

It is worth mentioning that it would take a miricle to have got something out the players at Smith's disposal.  Bree is miles off the standard required & I really struggle to get the craving for him to start.  Taylor is dire and we don't have a creative midfielder available.  ElGhazi is too inconsistent and Bolasie is not the answer for 90 minutes.

It is going to be a total rebuild in this & the next window.  We also need to start thinking of life after Jack because no way on this earth will he be here next season.

Let's see what Smith does with his own players rather than a side who have had it too easy for too long under Bruce. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 12, 2019, 11:01:01 PM
Most if not literally all of us are behind him (ok probably not stuart44544554 or whatever his name is). But Smith needs to start making some better decisions. We’re sinking fast in the league. Yes we’re still 5 points out but now there is 5 teams ahead of us to the playoffs spots. He is making a lot of mistakes as a manager including picking certain favourite players who offer nothing all. Also he needs to cut out this publicly blaming the ref bollocks. He might be right but shut the fuck up and win the game irrespective of the quality of the ref.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brassneck on January 12, 2019, 11:04:19 PM
Nothing wrong with his team selection today - I'd have gone with the same 11.

It is clear that the players at his disposal cannot fit into & play in the way Smith likes to play.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: andyh on January 12, 2019, 11:08:12 PM
So, it’s only taken a few months for Deano to ‘reach the bottom of his managerial career’...his words.

Welcome to Aston Villa, boss.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KRS on January 12, 2019, 11:31:49 PM
Quote from: Rico on January 12, 2019, 06:58:04 PM
The turn around in form has been incredible. From being the swashbuckling team of pre Christmas to this in double quick time makes me think that he might have had a fall out with some of the senior players. Maybe he has dished out a few home truths and someone's spat the dummy out. Needs sorting double quick. I hope to God that we're not about to witness the second coming of Graham Turner.
I have the same feeling...something must have gone on behind the scenes that we’re not aware of, as a down turn in form, style and performances can’t be down to just Grealish being out injured. Something smells rotten in Denmark.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: wittonwarrior on January 12, 2019, 11:48:24 PM
Up to the owners  to back him to the hilt and get rid of the dead wood including loanee Bolasie who gets worse by the week.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on January 12, 2019, 11:56:35 PM
I'm enjoying our new taxonomy. Bruce haters and Smith lovers. If Catherine Cookson was on Universal Credit.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on January 12, 2019, 11:59:55 PM
Smith clearly needs a lot more time and loads of new players but my worry when he was appointed was that he had no experience of what he was being asked to do, namely take a very big club out of the doldrums and get them promoted, as well as implementing a new style of play and overhauling the squad, or at least getting more out of it.  That's a lot to ask.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brassneck on January 13, 2019, 12:04:29 AM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on January 12, 2019, 11:59:55 PM
Smith clearly needs a lot more time and loads of new players but my worry when he was appointed was that he had no experience of what he was being asked to do, namely take a very big club out of the doldrums and get them promoted, as well as implementing a new style of play and overhauling the squad, or at least getting more out of it.  That's a lot to ask.

In fairness, what manager fits that criteria?

Certainly none who were available at the time.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on January 13, 2019, 12:14:45 AM
Quote from: Brassneck on January 13, 2019, 12:04:29 AM
In fairness, what manager fits that criteria?

Certainly none who were available at the time.

It's a fair point but I'm pretty certain there were others out there who have more experience of those kind of tasks than Smith does.  I know it's not a popular view but I reckon Smith's Villa connection was given more weight than it should have had in the decision to appoint him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: stuart445 on January 13, 2019, 12:19:43 AM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on January 12, 2019, 11:01:01 PM
Most if not literally all of us are behind him (ok probably not stuart44544554 or whatever his name is). But Smith needs to start making some better decisions. We’re sinking fast in the league. Yes we’re still 5 points out but now there is 5 teams ahead of us to the playoffs spots. He is making a lot of mistakes as a manager including picking certain favourite players who offer nothing all. Also he needs to cut out this publicly blaming the ref bollocks. He might be right but shut the fuck up and win the game irrespective of the quality of the ref.

Oh I am still behind him, I just don't like the way Smith is allowed a bye this season when Bruce wasn't, I also don't take the view that some have taken that Smith is beyond question.

Today was embarrassing even when Bruce was going insane at the start of the season he still managed to beat Wigan. Smiths subs today was to put it nicely were strange. I hope the Hause performance was just because it was his first game in ages because if that is his norm I'm worried 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 13, 2019, 12:26:46 AM
Nobody at all has given Smith a bye. But after 2 years of Bruceball and significant resources he failed miserably to deliver promotion most were very glad to see him gone. Smith deserves time to fix what is clearly broken.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on January 13, 2019, 12:31:08 AM
I think the point Stuart is making is that some people expected Bruce to get us up in his first season and even now say he failed twice. Either way, Smith needs time, just like his predecessor did.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 13, 2019, 12:38:41 AM
Smith needs time, he also needs to show he can address clear failings in the squad.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on January 13, 2019, 12:38:54 AM
Bruce did fail twice. If at the end of next season we're still a second division side then Smith will have failed twice as well.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 13, 2019, 12:44:58 AM
Absolutely. Especially with the resources available to both relative to the competition. He can win early enough to get us up and he will have no excuses at all next season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on January 13, 2019, 12:52:46 AM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 13, 2019, 12:19:43 AM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on January 12, 2019, 11:01:01 PM
Most if not literally all of us are behind him (ok probably not stuart44544554 or whatever his name is). But Smith needs to start making some better decisions. We’re sinking fast in the league. Yes we’re still 5 points out but now there is 5 teams ahead of us to the playoffs spots. He is making a lot of mistakes as a manager including picking certain favourite players who offer nothing all. Also he needs to cut out this publicly blaming the ref bollocks. He might be right but shut the fuck up and win the game irrespective of the quality of the ref.

Oh I am still behind him, I just don't like the way Smith is allowed a bye this season when Bruce wasn't, I also don't take the view that some have taken that Smith is beyond question.

Today was embarrassing even when Bruce was going insane at the start of the season he still managed to beat Wigan. Smiths subs today was to put it nicely were strange. I hope the Hause performance was just because it was his first game in ages because if that is his norm I'm worried 

Stuart and Steve, sitting in a tree. F.I.S.T.I.N.G

And don't reply saying that that's childish. It's not.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on January 13, 2019, 12:58:38 AM
It is a long game and it's a build to have a squad and team with the whole ethos of his ideas with his type of player.

I said before the appointment of Smith gets a longevity no many other coaches would get.

Hopefully it was a genuine talk about progress rather than some appeasing and cheaper alternative .
Like some business strategy in marketing the idea as a long term project which help slow down expectations .

It wasn't high status but it ticks boxes and with right balance has potential to great succeed.

I feel it's like Wilder at Sheff united but it's on a much bigger scale.

It's looking like we don't have enough of the type of players in midfield especially to play his football.

I don't know if that naive by Smith , the board for the situation or it just to say it's part of building plan and that eventually will all come good.

I think he's got the strong will and belief as well as the passion but importantly I feel  he will be getting the time to develop things his way.

At the moment it's all a bit off form and a struggle in transition .



Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on January 13, 2019, 01:04:32 AM
Based on nothing really, I have a feeling that a manager in our situation needs to be unafraid to be a prick to some people. I hope that DS can do that (if, of course, I'm right.)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chinchilla Bathhouse on January 13, 2019, 01:14:47 AM
In this discussion on giving our managers a bye, it should be remembered that Bruce was hired largely because he was a promotion specialist (something he was always very quick to remind us of).  Why the hell would he, of all people, get a bye? With thirty odd games to play and money to spend in January? Never mind a bye, he should have had a goodbye for finishing 13th.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tomd2103 on January 13, 2019, 01:17:49 AM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on January 13, 2019, 01:04:32 AM
Based on nothing really, I have a feeling that a manager in our situation needs to be unafraid to be a prick to some people. I hope that DS can do that (if, of course, I'm right.)

Agree.  He has to start being ruthless now and start casting aside those who he feels can't take us forward. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tony scott on January 13, 2019, 04:46:54 AM
It's a big ask for D S to get us out of this division, based on his previous championship results. Many posters said he gets us ,following his appointment, due to being a villa supporter.  I Think that's a disadvantage can you imagine the pressure when we lose, going home to a family of Villa supporters.  I hope he is now getting support from our DOF that's the way I hope our new management system works I think the next 5 games will give us an indication as to how motivated this group of players are.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on January 13, 2019, 06:54:32 AM
We all know Dean won't get time, unless he gets results, which at the moment he isn't. I don't see things dramatically improving even when Grealish returns - like McGinn, he can't carry the team on his own. The dilemma for the owners is this - how much do we risk/dare spend in January to help the manager and improve the team, given that despite recent levels of ineptitude we are still in with a chance of the play-offs. My guess is that it will be limited. The time for the rebuild the club desperately needs is from the moment the season ends.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OzVilla on January 13, 2019, 07:09:03 AM
I think a few on here are writing DS off far too quickly.

Let’s see how we look squad wise and results wise in 3 weeks before we start wetting ourselves.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on January 13, 2019, 07:30:13 AM
I disagree - things have turned to shit very quickly and it can't all be attributed to Grealish's injury.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on January 13, 2019, 08:40:59 AM
He has to get a midfielder in this week, as we've been playing with McGinn and some meat in a shirt for weeks.

Hourihane
Whelan
BB

All wretched and unsuited to pressing or moving. No presence or mobility or game management.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on January 13, 2019, 08:58:48 AM
Thing is, we can’t change the whole squad every time we make a managerial change, we all said Bruce should be getting more out of this group of players and that goes for Dean too.

Yes he needs time and players but he also needs to get more out of those he currently has available and to cut out these bursts of abject form.

The problem with writing this season off as a learning exercise is that will mean more losses to teams like Wigan whom we should be mullering, and that piles on the pressure with more of us wondering if he’s the man to rebuild a team.

He and the coaches need to identify what’s gone wrong and put it right, and bloody quickly. We’ve seen that at his best his teams play very good football, he’s the man. But he needs to get better.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chris Smith on January 13, 2019, 09:01:00 AM
There was an interview a few weeks back with Pitarch where he said that the club plans were not reliant on going up this season. This suggests that Smith will be given the time to build for next season if we don’t go up this year. That, in turn, suggests we will not see us see sign players for a short term fix but those that can contribute to improving us over a longer period. The current bottom 4 clubs in the PL are all sides promoted over the past 2 seasons which shows how difficult the transition is if you are not fully prepared.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: andyh on January 13, 2019, 09:03:19 AM
Completely agree Ads.
McGinn is 100% exempt from any criticism. That bloke has carried the midfield on his own for weeks.
Whereas Hourihane ponces around the pitch living off this reputation of a dead ball specialist. In reality, for a midfielder, he is weak especially when it comes to tackling. My overriding image of him is of him lying flat on his belly, arm wide apart, looking at the ref for a free kick because someone has robbed him of the ball.....again.

BB offers movement and mobility, but has a distinct lack of quality.

Whelan...well, we all know he is finished.

Lansbury.....who the fuck knows if this bloke will ever play again or what he brings.

When jack comes back he will improve things no doubt. But, it will be too late to save  this season by then.
And then we have to come to terms with the fact we will have him for the last 10 games or however many are left and then he will be off at the end of season.

Midfield is the root cause of all our problems. Until we get players in who can consistently  deliver performances of quality and energy (as McGinn does) then we are stuck here for a long, long time.



Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on January 13, 2019, 09:03:25 AM
Staying in this division regrettably means having to replace players you want to keep.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on January 13, 2019, 09:07:34 AM
I can't abide people writing the season off either.

We have to improve though and so does Smith. It would certainly help getting one or two in, as this season has exposed Bruce's recruitment policy for the expensive sham it was.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on January 13, 2019, 09:13:56 AM
I think Smith getting a bye this season is a myth

not saying he will get us up not the way things are at the moment
but he came here to build, develop, put in place a attractive positive way of playing, if he does that or looks like he’s doing that he will be given time and funds

if he finishes 13 playing like we did yesterday or anything like it for the rest of the season just like Bruce’s first season
He won’t get a second go, not with these owners
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on January 13, 2019, 09:22:40 AM
Showing the squad a vid of the Citeh v Liverpool game certainly didn't motivate them did it ?
 I agree with an earlier posters' comment about Smith - with hindsight maybe appointing a " Villa fan" as manager is placing additional pressure rather than him being given sufficient time to turn things - the initial " new manager bounce" seems to have created false optimism
Personally I think we are too reliant on one player ....to get out of the Championship you need a closely knit Team with a strong work ethic not a squad of individuals
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: frank black on January 13, 2019, 09:22:52 AM
Quote from: john e on January 13, 2019, 09:13:56 AM
I think Smith getting a bye this season is a myth

not saying he will get us up not the way things are at the moment
but he came here to build, develop, put in place a attractive positive way of playing, if he does that or looks like he’s doing that he will be given time and funds

if he finishes 13 playing like we did yesterday or anything like it for the rest of the season just like Bruce’s first season
He won’t get a second go, not with these owners

This, if players wonder round the pitch and make other teams look like Barcelona, then he will be gone come summer. I can’t believe just how much our performance levels are dropping in recent games, it’s almost like the players don’t believe in themselves or what they are being told to do... I really want him to succeed and expect a rousing performance next game, otherwise doubts will snowball.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nunkin1965 on January 13, 2019, 09:25:09 AM
I’m hoping that the mindset of the owners has changed and that DS is given the time he needs to implement his ideas.
Several of our “employees” clearly aren’t buying into the managers fresh ways of playing and are no doubt waiting for DS to be dropped. The manager is just swapping deck chairs on the titanic throughout the whole side.
On the evidence I see player power is starting to show itself because ultimately they know they’ll win.
Somebody has to try and get us moving in the right direction and I hope that DS is the one given the chance.
Villa is a squad of experienced, sometimes talented, individuals. I’ve always seen a DS team as just a team. A young team with no prima donnas who are living on past glories and who aren’t deciding when and where they will turn up for him.
That is something we haven’t consistently had for years.

We’re in this League for another season at least with this squad of players because it’s full of people who are comfortable with their lot and will not change their attitude.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: old man villa fan on January 13, 2019, 09:25:14 AM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on January 12, 2019, 08:18:28 PM
Quote from: mr underhill on January 12, 2019, 08:06:32 PM
We will get a fresh start whatever happens with so many out of contract or going back to their parent clubs - which in Bolaise's case can't come a moment too soon. The Villa 11 that inevitably kicks off in August in the Chumps is going to look very unfamiliar
You would like to think that highly paid "professionals" would give their best for the club paying them so well but I wonder if the reality is that a large portion of the squad are "sulking" as they will not be in Smith's' plans for next season

As unlikely as it sounds, how many thought before Xmas "s..., we might get promoted and I have got no chance of being here in the PL".  I think too many of our players are too comfortable, regardless.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on January 13, 2019, 09:27:13 AM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on January 13, 2019, 09:22:40 AM
Showing the squad a vid of the Citeh v Liverpool game certainly didn't motivate them did it ?
 I agree with an earlier posters' comment about Smith - with hindsight maybe appointing a " Villa fan" as manager is placing additional pressure rather than him being given sufficient time to turn things - the initial " new manager bounce" seems to have created false optimism
Personally I think we are too reliant on one player ....to get out of the Championship you need a closely knit Team with a strong work ethic not a squad of individuals

It pisses me off that it’s been hinted at the players don’t think they can learn anything from watching a game like that, who the fuck do they think they are?

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sickbeggar on January 13, 2019, 09:30:16 AM
I will wait and see. As someone who was appalled we let RDM spend millions and then sacked him 3 months later in panic, i am giving DS a bye this season. To me we had the new manager bounce and then injuries and players reverting to type is the main problem atm. Hopefully new players will come in this month and bed-in, and by this time next month we will see where we are in relation to the play-offs. But really, i want him given the a resemblence of  a chance and i won't be getting on his back till he's had a year and 2 transfer windows to make his mark, and only then if nothing has improved.  i'd still give him the whole of next season as well. I don't really think that's me being particulary patient, and less time than Bruce had who after all came in on the promotion ticket.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 13, 2019, 09:34:06 AM
Quote from: andyh on January 13, 2019, 09:03:19 AM
Completely agree Ads.
McGinn is 100% exempt from any criticism. That bloke has carried the midfield on his own for weeks.
Whereas Hourihane ponces around the pitch living off this reputation of a dead ball specialist. In reality, for a midfielder, he is weak especially when it comes to tackling. My overriding image of him is of him lying flat on his belly, arm wide apart, looking at the ref for a free kick because someone has robbed him of the ball.....again.

BB offers movement and mobility, but has a distinct lack of quality.

Whelan...well, we all know he is finished.

Lansbury.....who the fuck knows if this bloke will ever play again or what he brings.

When jack comes back he will improve things no doubt. But, it will be too late to save  this season by then.
And then we have to come to terms with the fact we will have him for the last 10 games or however many are left and then he will be off at the end of season.

Midfield is the root cause of all our problems. Until we get players in who can consistently  deliver performances of quality and energy (as McGinn does) then we are stuck here for a long, long time.
At some point you would think that Smith would have worked out that Hourihane is a luxury we can not afford in that position. It’s like we are playing with 10 men and you just can not get away with that.
This and his playing a system that does not work is beginning to worry me.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: old man villa fan on January 13, 2019, 09:48:03 AM
I think the problem he has is that he has too many players playing the same position with too many gaps in between. I also find it amazing that we have a squad with so few natural left-sided players or right-sided players that can play on left and look as though they are not going to fall over every time the ball comes to them.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on January 13, 2019, 10:03:59 AM
Quote from: Brassneck on January 12, 2019, 11:04:19 PM
Nothing wrong with his team selection today - I'd have gone with the same 11.

It is clear that the players at his disposal cannot fit into & play in the way Smith likes to play.

I think the fundamental issue is that Smith should be designing a system that best suits best the players at his disposal rather than enforcing one that clearly isn't working. Plan B can't be to bring in Hause and Whelan when 2-0 down, can it....
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on January 13, 2019, 10:13:19 AM
Someone one here mentioned yesterday that he hasn't found a way of playing differently to compensate Grealish being out and I said this a couple of weeks ago. It's just seems a case of knocking it wide to the wingers. It's all far too predictable.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dorsetvillian on January 13, 2019, 10:14:23 AM
The sub's yesterday were very strange. He needed to change the system but just replaced like for like. We got worse.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT on January 13, 2019, 10:16:14 AM
Why don't we press high anymore? It was something we did from day one of Dean arriving. Something his teams were known for.

My opinion, for what that's worth, is the players just aren't up to it and have actually stopped doing it. The culture of this club for years was built on lazy, half arsed players like Gabby, Lescott, Bacuna, Richards etc. It's clearly not gone away because yesterday and last week we looked every bit as spineless (McGinn apart).

The Spanish keeper in the pre match warm ups who trots around, not bothering to save shots - that stuff is infectious, especially to younger players.

Until we get rid of this attitude, we have no chance of going up and days like yesterday will just keep happening.

...and I trust Dean Smith 100% that he'll put it right.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 13, 2019, 10:19:24 AM
What Spanish keeper?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT on January 13, 2019, 10:21:48 AM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on January 13, 2019, 10:19:24 AM
What Spanish keeper?

Apologies, Portuguese!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on January 13, 2019, 10:22:16 AM
Goalkeepers. They all look the same to me.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on January 13, 2019, 10:26:43 AM
I think 442 might be the way to go for the time being. We cannot win the midfield so what's the point trying?

Play Davis with Tammy off him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 13, 2019, 10:41:36 AM
Quote from: CT on January 13, 2019, 10:21:48 AM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on January 13, 2019, 10:19:24 AM
What Spanish keeper?

Apologies, Portuguese!

To be fair to him, specifically, I can understand why he might be less than engaged.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brassneck on January 13, 2019, 10:44:49 AM
Quote from: brontebilly on January 13, 2019, 10:03:59 AM
Quote from: Brassneck on January 12, 2019, 11:04:19 PM
Nothing wrong with his team selection today - I'd have gone with the same 11.

It is clear that the players at his disposal cannot fit into & play in the way Smith likes to play.

I think the fundamental issue is that Smith should be designing a system that best suits best the players at his disposal rather than enforcing one that clearly isn't working. Plan B can't be to bring in Hause and Whelan when 2-0 down, can it....

What system would you play when you have Taylor & Bree as wing backs, Hourihane, BB, Whelan as midfielders and Bolasie, Albert & El Ghazi as wingers?

Smith made the changes at 0-1.  El Ghazi was absolutely the right decision.  I get giving Hause 20 minutes but do struggle with Whelan.  The only other option available to Smith was to go 442, sacrificing BB for Davies or Hogan.

Smith has been working on a style of play since he arrived.  Initially it was successful.  Lately, it has faltered.  Does he change it to  a 3rd system this season or does he stick with it, knowing it is only going to be 4 or 5 games until reinforcements arrive.  It could be detrimental to change things again, just for 4 games.

There is no right or wrong decision.  It could be that sticking with what he believes in will pay dividends at the end of the season
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on January 13, 2019, 10:54:00 AM
The Hause sub was unnecessary. Maybe if we were 3-0 up and cruising and he wanted to give him the last 10 minutes on the pitch, then fine. It was a sub that could have been better used elsewhere.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brassneck on January 13, 2019, 10:58:12 AM
Quote from: Clampy on January 13, 2019, 10:54:00 AM
The Hause sub was unnecessary. Maybe if we were 3-0 up and cruising and he wanted to give him the last 10 minutes on the pitch, then fine. It was a sub that could have been better used elsewhere.

He clearly didn't want to go 442, which was the only other option.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on January 13, 2019, 11:00:45 AM
Quote from: Brassneck on January 13, 2019, 10:58:12 AM
Quote from: Clampy on January 13, 2019, 10:54:00 AM
The Hause sub was unnecessary. Maybe if we were 3-0 up and cruising and he wanted to give him the last 10 minutes on the pitch, then fine. It was a sub that could have been better used elsewhere.

He clearly didn't want to go 442, which was the only other option.

But it was still a pointless sub he didn't really need to make.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on January 13, 2019, 11:01:07 AM
Quote from: brontebilly on January 13, 2019, 10:03:59 AM
Quote from: Brassneck on January 12, 2019, 11:04:19 PM
Nothing wrong with his team selection today - I'd have gone with the same 11.

It is clear that the players at his disposal cannot fit into & play in the way Smith likes to play.

I think the fundamental issue is that Smith should be designing a system that best suits best the players at his disposal rather than enforcing one that clearly isn't working. Plan B can't be to bring in Hause and Whelan when 2-0 down, can it....

I disagree with your first point, brontebilly. We've brought a head coach in presumably because he has a defined way of playing. We've witnessed it in full hue and cry, and it looks good.

If Plan B is go 442 and bring on Davis, we might as well have kept Bruce.

Like Brassneck says, we need some better players, that's clear.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brassneck on January 13, 2019, 11:05:20 AM
Quote from: Clampy on January 13, 2019, 11:00:45 AM
Quote from: Brassneck on January 13, 2019, 10:58:12 AM
Quote from: Clampy on January 13, 2019, 10:54:00 AM
The Hause sub was unnecessary. Maybe if we were 3-0 up and cruising and he wanted to give him the last 10 minutes on the pitch, then fine. It was a sub that could have been better used elsewhere.

He clearly didn't want to go 442, which was the only other option.

But it was still a pointless sub he didn't really need to make.

It wasn't pointless because it has given Hause his first run out - It might have always been the plan to do this, regardless of the score.  Until Hause is up to speed, we still have the issues at the back.

Personally, I'd have swapped Bree for Hutton & BB for Davies.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on January 13, 2019, 11:09:52 AM
Well we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one. I just thought it was a saft thing to do.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on January 13, 2019, 11:11:38 AM
Quote from: Clampy on January 13, 2019, 11:09:52 AM
Well we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one. I just thought it was a saft thing to do.

I agree.  I also think the triple substitution will have a bad effect on squad morale.  Elphick looked especially furious.  If it was always the plan to take him off and give Hause a run out, nobody had told Elphick.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on January 13, 2019, 11:15:19 AM
Like I said last night, I thought Elphick was injured at the time or had took a slight knock. Besides, what would have happened if we had picked an actual injury just after making a needless sub?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brassneck on January 13, 2019, 11:16:28 AM
Quote from: Risso on January 13, 2019, 11:11:38 AM
Quote from: Clampy on January 13, 2019, 11:09:52 AM
Well we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one. I just thought it was a saft thing to do.

I agree.  I also think the triple substitution will have a bad effect on squad morale.  Elphick looked especially furious.  If it was always the plan to take him off and give Hause a run out, nobody had told Elphick.

Quite rightly as it could have affected his game.  Elphick said recently in his interview that he'd been told that he was coming back to play.  If Hause turns out OK (and he still looks to have some way to go), it will be Elphick who makes way.  Until that point, there is no need to have an unhappy player.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brassneck on January 13, 2019, 11:20:03 AM
Quote from: Clampy on January 13, 2019, 11:09:52 AM
Well we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one. I just thought it was a saft thing to do.

I want to see our defence improve.  I don't think Elphick is the answer - Especially as more and more teams are adopting this high pressing game.  The only way Hause is going to get up to speed is by playing.  As I said previously, I wouldn't have made that change but there are merits behind it, as there are with any change.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on January 13, 2019, 11:20:57 AM
Like I said, we'll have to agree to disagree.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villatillidie25 on January 13, 2019, 11:33:14 AM
Quote from: Brassneck on January 13, 2019, 11:20:03 AM
Quote from: Clampy on January 13, 2019, 11:09:52 AM
Well we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one. I just thought it was a saft thing to do.

I want to see our defence improve.  I don't think Elphick is the answer - Especially as more and more teams are adopting this high pressing game.  The only way Hause is going to get up to speed is by playing.  As I said previously, I wouldn't have made that change but there are merits behind it, as there are with any change.

Having said that, Elphick was significantly better than his partner yesterday. That corner Chester gave away in the first half when it bounced off both his feet was laughably bad.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TopDeck113 on January 13, 2019, 11:44:02 AM
One thing I sincerely hope is that behind the scenes there is a Plan A, B and C being carefully considered, and detailed thought given to how we cope with the various eventualities of how this season ends.

Plan A is we somehow still make the playoffs and luck our way through to promotion.  Whilst it won't be the answer to our problems, at least the riches of the PL will enable us to both rebuild and keep our best players. I also currently think that this is the least likely outcome.

Plan B and Plan C involves another season in the Championship, B with Smith keeping the players he wants, C with the squad shorn of the likes of Grealish and McGinn.

Whichever it is, the players he wants need to be identified now and as soon as the window opens in the summer the deals done.  I'd be pretty sure that we'll still be in this division next year and we need to do what we have failed on every other season we've been down here: hit the ground running.  To have any hope of doing that we need a full pre-season implementing the Smith way.

Whilst not totally giving up on a run to the playoffs, I would also like to see Smith giving some of our home-grown kids a run.  I'm talking half-a-dozen to ten games against a variety of opponents to see if they can fit into the system he wants to play.  Some of them won't make the grade, that's the way it is with young players, but they honestly can't put in worse performances than some our current experiences wasters did yesterday.  However, one or two might have what it takes, which will not only save us money in the transfer market, and successful teams usually have a heart founded on players who have come up through the ranks.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brassneck on January 13, 2019, 11:54:58 AM
Quote from: Villatillidie25 on January 13, 2019, 11:33:14 AM
Quote from: Brassneck on January 13, 2019, 11:20:03 AM
Quote from: Clampy on January 13, 2019, 11:09:52 AM
Well we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one. I just thought it was a saft thing to do.

I want to see our defence improve.  I don't think Elphick is the answer - Especially as more and more teams are adopting this high pressing game.  The only way Hause is going to get up to speed is by playing.  As I said previously, I wouldn't have made that change but there are merits behind it, as there are with any change.

Having said that, Elphick was significantly better than his partner yesterday. That corner Chester gave away in the first half when it bounced off both his feet was laughably bad.

I don't like either of them and would ideally like to see both replaced.  I just think Chester will get a run on the right side before any decision is made.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on January 13, 2019, 01:04:02 PM
As much as we are short in defence having a sub who is no where near match fit is totally bonkers in my opinion - Elphick has been brought back to help solve a problem and appeared up for the challenge when interviewed on his arrival back at B6
 I'd like to know why he was so upset ( if he was) when replaced by Hause
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on January 13, 2019, 01:08:51 PM
Quote from: Ads on January 13, 2019, 10:26:43 AM
I think 442 might be the way to go for the time being. We cannot win the midfield so what's the point trying?

Play Davis with Tammy off him.
Said that yesterday.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on January 13, 2019, 01:36:51 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on January 13, 2019, 01:04:02 PM
As much as we are short in defence having a sub who is no where near match fit is totally bonkers in my opinion - Elphick has been brought back to help solve a problem and appeared up for the challenge when interviewed on his arrival back at B6
 I'd like to know why he was so upset ( if he was) when replaced by Hause

He looked it.  Central defenders don't usually get subbed in a game, unless they're injured.  We were chasing the game, so he probably thought he was being made a scapegoat.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on January 13, 2019, 02:00:54 PM
It wouldn’t have been so bad if Tommy was taken off for a forward as we were only a goal behind at that time.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 13, 2019, 02:12:18 PM
It’s like Dean took a swim in the ocean. He’d done it before while at Brentford and could see the shore. Confident of his ability at Aston Villa he’s braved going out a bit further where the water is deeper. Initially it was fine but as he got further out the water has become choppier and it just feels like he is starting to splash around a bit.

The recent games, the tactics, the subs, even his press interviews are all of a man who looks a lot less organized than the one who came to the club 3 months ago. Blaming the refs, putting on defenders and DM’s when losing. It’s not what he’s known for and he seems confused that the experience he has isn’t sufficient.

What he needs now is a boat called Grealish to come by, scoop him and take him back to calmer waters.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on January 13, 2019, 02:16:29 PM
But Grealish is only a one -manned lifeboat - we need a larger boat with a better crew
(men not buoys :)  )
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 13, 2019, 02:22:30 PM
As much as it is his ability Grealish sets the tone for how Smith wants to play. That there is such a gap there when he’s absent is as much to do with the quality of the players in the squad as the types of players Bruce bought to suit his system. What we’ve seen in this league is teams don’t need players as good as Grealish to succeed. What they do have is players who are closer to each other in quality and all comfortable playing a certain way. You add a Grealish to that you are that much better.

We are a mish mash of parts and pieces. We all complained Bruce didn’t have an identifiable style of play because the players we have don’t fit any one system. That’s going to take time and money to fix to get them comfortable playing the way Dean wants them to.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on January 13, 2019, 02:28:01 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on January 13, 2019, 02:22:30 PM
As much as it is his ability Grealish sets the tone for how Smith wants to play. That there is such a gap there when he’s absent is as much to do with the quality of the players in the squad as the types of players Bruce bought to suit his system. What we’ve seen in this league is teams don’t need players as good as Grealish to succeed. What they do have is players who are closer to each other in quality and all comfortable playing a certain way. You add a Grealish to that you are that much better.

We are a mish mash of parts and pieces. We all complained Bruce didn’t have an identifiable style of play because the players we have don’t fit any one system. That’s going to take time and money to fix to get them comfortable playing the way Dean wants them to.

To be fair, all of our players looked of a very similar quality yesterday.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pooligan on January 13, 2019, 02:32:00 PM
I could not understand why if Smith wanted to get Hause on he did not  take off the worst player on the pitch i e Taylor and replace him with Hause who we are told can play at left back. Smith making some strange decisions of late
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on January 13, 2019, 02:37:22 PM
Quote from: Newby on January 13, 2019, 02:00:54 PM
It wouldn’t have been so bad if Tommy was taken off for a forward as we were only a goal behind at that time.

yep I don’t know what happened to the fearless attacking manager that we thought we had got

a Brentford friend of mine who goes to marches said his worst fault is he just keeps on attacking and doesn’t know any different
I thought I’d take that

he’s turned into a man that brings on Glen Whelan and a not fit centre back in a crisis
thats what Villa can do for you, scrambles the brain
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 13, 2019, 02:38:02 PM
Quote from: Risso on January 13, 2019, 02:28:01 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on January 13, 2019, 02:22:30 PM
As much as it is his ability Grealish sets the tone for how Smith wants to play. That there is such a gap there when he’s absent is as much to do with the quality of the players in the squad as the types of players Bruce bought to suit his system. What we’ve seen in this league is teams don’t need players as good as Grealish to succeed. What they do have is players who are closer to each other in quality and all comfortable playing a certain way. You add a Grealish to that you are that much better.

We are a mish mash of parts and pieces. We all complained Bruce didn’t have an identifiable style of play because the players we have don’t fit any one system. That’s going to take time and money to fix to get them comfortable playing the way Dean wants them to.

To be fair, all of our players looked of a very similar quality yesterday.

It’s amazing and quite revealing that one player can elevate a team so much and when he’s not there how much the quality drops off. If you’re an NFL fan it’s like watching the Green Bay Packers who are a really good team with a fit Aaron Rodgers at QB and absolutely useless when he’s not playing.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on January 13, 2019, 03:36:53 PM
Quote from: brontebilly on January 13, 2019, 10:03:59 AM
Quote from: Brassneck on January 12, 2019, 11:04:19 PM
Nothing wrong with his team selection today - I'd have gone with the same 11.

It is clear that the players at his disposal cannot fit into & play in the way Smith likes to play.

I think the fundamental issue is that Smith should be designing a system that best suits best the players at his disposal rather than enforcing one that clearly isn't working. Plan B can't be to bring in Hause and Whelan when 2-0 down, can it....

No, you're absolutely wrong. He must change the system, he has to develop his own because we can't carry on with the old style of play.

The players we have should have the competence. The players should be able to adapt. The coaches need to get them to adapt and I think they will.

The new manager bounce thing worked, however, to change the whole footballing style and ethos takes time. You can't unlearn what you know. The players just have to get the new style and understand and embrace it, be confident they can do it and then it will click into place. We're only 5 points off the play-offs and therefore anything can happen.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: stuart445 on January 13, 2019, 04:15:08 PM
Quote from: john e on January 13, 2019, 02:37:22 PM
Quote from: Newby on January 13, 2019, 02:00:54 PM
It wouldn’t have been so bad if Tommy was taken off for a forward as we were only a goal behind at that time.

yep I don’t know what happened to the fearless attacking manager that we thought we had got

a Brentford friend of mine who goes to marches said his worst fault is he just keeps on attacking and doesn’t know any different
I thought I’d take that

he’s turned into a man that brings on Glen Whelan and a not fit centre back in a crisis
thats what Villa can do for you, scrambles the brain

It's what i was saying when people were calling for him last season,  it's easy to perform like Smith did at Brentford in front of a crowd that is happy to be where they were because it's the best they've ever known.  It's a whole different ball game coming to Villa with a crowd that isn't happy where we are and are demanding promotion. 

I think people are underestimating how difficult it is to manage with Aston Villas expectations.  Remember Paul Lambert came to us with the same reputation as Dean Smith and look what's happened to him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 13, 2019, 04:23:39 PM
I agree with that and he will need to adjust and show he can rise to the challenge. Dean Smith like Lambert comes to us with a very good reputation but Villa is a very different beast. Maybe we needed a big character like Bielsa at Leeds or maybe Smith can become that guy. We all hope it's the latter.

Edit: to clarify - I agree with the bit manager expectations moving to a much bigger stage. I think he’ll do just fine because he has grown up supporting a massive club. There is still a period of adjustment as there would be for anyone starting a new position. He’s discovering the bottom and it’s not fun.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on January 13, 2019, 04:23:52 PM
I don't buy it. There's no evidence to support that. You get more in the Holte End than was up Wigan yesterday, yet we've had 40k plus against Swnasea and the Noses and been fine. Taken good followings to Derby and Boro and battered them.

Injuries to our best players, plus woeful recruitment from Bruce has left us bare. We don't have a great deal of choice but to play garbage like Whelan, Hourihan and the like in midfield.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: stuart445 on January 13, 2019, 04:45:57 PM
Quote from: Ads on January 13, 2019, 04:23:52 PM
I don't buy it. There's no evidence to support that. You get more in the Holte End than was up Wigan yesterday, yet we've had 40k plus against Swnasea and the Noses and been fine. Taken good followings to Derby and Boro and battered them.

Injuries to our best players, plus woeful recruitment from Bruce has left us bare. We don't have a great deal of choice but to play garbage like Whelan, Hourihan and the like in midfield.

Blues, Derby and Boro came in the new manager bounce,  now things have settled down we have only won 1 game and performances have been getting worse with every passing week.

Grealish is good but is he the type to pick a whole team up and get them performing,  I'd suspect not because so far in his career when the team isn't performing Grealish isn't either.  I hope he does but I think we are expecting Grealish to perform a miracle.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villa75 on January 13, 2019, 04:46:45 PM
The fact that the manager was unable to get better than yesterday's debacle, after the Swansea 'performance', worries me greatly.

A week's managing and motivating the players garnered nothing. Yesterday's half time team talk had absolutely no positive effect. It's as if the early performances were down to the new manager bounce and all round optimism after the departure of Steve Bruce.

A couple of disappointing results seems to have knocked the confidence and new found optimism of the players. That's where a manager earns his corn.

This is a sticky patch for sure. We'll soon see what type of manager we have.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on January 13, 2019, 04:47:16 PM
You are becoming very prescient and balanced in your observations Ads.  Your second sentence there is right on the money.  Doffs cap.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on January 13, 2019, 05:04:19 PM
The new manager bounce was 1 win and 2 losses, hardly a bounce

we weren’t concerned because we played a lot better in the ones we lost than we are playing now
it was the difference in style, the attacking intent, the ball possession, it was there it was all there the new path ahead

we’ve gone back to Bruce football now even the one we won,
that’s the most worrying thing for me
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Allan C on January 13, 2019, 05:12:17 PM
Quote from: Ads on January 13, 2019, 04:23:52 PM
I don't buy it. There's no evidence to support that. You get more in the Holte End than was up Wigan yesterday, yet we've had 40k plus against Swnasea and the Noses and been fine. Taken good followings to Derby and Boro and battered them.

Injuries to our best players, plus woeful recruitment from Bruce has left us bare. We don't have a great deal of choice but to play garbage like Whelan, Hourihan and the like in midfield.
Correct Ads 100%
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on January 13, 2019, 05:54:18 PM
Quote from: PeterWithe on January 13, 2019, 10:22:16 AM
Goalkeepers. They all look the same to me.

Some of my best friends are goalkeepers.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TopDeck113 on January 13, 2019, 06:28:01 PM
"Goalkeepers!" snorted Bob. "I could buy ’em and sell ’em."
From one of my favourite books as a kid.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on January 13, 2019, 06:28:03 PM
Quote from: themossman on January 13, 2019, 05:54:18 PM
Quote from: PeterWithe on January 13, 2019, 10:22:16 AM
Goalkeepers. They all look the same to me.


Some of my best friends are goalkeepers.
There was a goalkeeper in my class at school - he was just like one of us
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on January 13, 2019, 06:29:36 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on January 13, 2019, 06:28:03 PM
Quote from: themossman on January 13, 2019, 05:54:18 PM
Quote from: PeterWithe on January 13, 2019, 10:22:16 AM
Goalkeepers. They all look the same to me.


Some of my best friends are goalkeepers.
There was a goalkeeper in my class at school - he was just like one of us
My next door neighbour's a goalkeeper.  But he's alright.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on January 13, 2019, 06:34:49 PM
My friend's son is goalkeeper captain of a non league club and nice bloke that he is I would not trust him to post a letter.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rico on January 13, 2019, 06:37:29 PM
Two or three more results like yesterday and we will be in full on crisis. The meaning evil will have a broken Villa badge on the back page and Talk Shite will be asking how long before Smith gets the bullet.

I have no other reason other than a gut feeling but I think we may be seeing a power struggle in progress. Like I say no other reason other than a strange déjà vu feeling of been here before. You don't go from playing like Barcelona (bit of an exaggeration I know) one week to Nuneaton Borough the next. Trouble is the managers never seem to win when it comes down to a clash of personalities.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on January 13, 2019, 06:39:34 PM
Power struggle between who?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on January 13, 2019, 06:42:08 PM
Quote from: Ads on January 13, 2019, 06:39:34 PM
Power struggle between who?

Possibly between one or two of our big time charlies who think they are better than they actually are and our nice guy manager who might not be used to dealing with such characters?  Something doesn't seem right at the moment.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rico on January 13, 2019, 06:43:34 PM
Senior pro's (Bruce's players) and management.

Like I say it's only a gut feeling, but it's a bad feeling that I have right now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on January 13, 2019, 06:51:09 PM
Quote from: Risso on January 13, 2019, 06:42:08 PM
Quote from: Ads on January 13, 2019, 06:39:34 PM
Power struggle between who?

Possibly between one or two of our big time charlies who think they are better than they actually are and our nice guy manager who might not be used to dealing with such characters?  Something doesn't seem right at the moment.
And isn't that one reason we brought Terry back into the fold? - he played with these arseholes and should be able to provide a bridge between 'management' and them.
And: we saw this in Houllier's day - a manager trying to do things differently and more rigorously. If this is what's happening, I applaud it and accept that there may be further pain before it gets better.
If there is dissent amongst the squad, lance the boil, offload the dissenters and build from there.

Easily said, I know ....
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on January 13, 2019, 07:00:23 PM
I think Risso is right  but I suspect it is about money.  I have learned over many years that money is frequently the cause of unexplained discord.  What is the issue?  I don't know but if Bolaise is on £80k a week (rumoured) and (say) Keinan Davis is on £2k a week there are bound to be undercurrents of discord.  Or Whelan on £40k and O'Hare on £500 a week.






Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rico on January 13, 2019, 07:03:33 PM
Totally agree.  Maybe it's the Houllier years that's been nagging at my subconscious. Trouble is he ended up having a heart attack and we never recovered. Maybe it's the beer that I've been supping that's making me melancholy but If Dean Smith doesn't turn it around in the next three or four games I honestly believe he'll be done for.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Taylor on January 13, 2019, 07:10:56 PM
Quote from: brian green on January 13, 2019, 07:00:23 PM
I think Risso is right  but I suspect it is about money.  I have learned over many years that money is frequently the cause of unexplained discord.  What is the issue?  I don't know but if Bolaise is on £80k a week (rumoured) and (say) Keinan Davis is on £2k a week there are bound to be undercurrents of discord.  Or Whelan on £40k and O'Hare on £500 a week.







But surely this is the same at any club, o'hare and Davis aren't first team regulars. Would they have that much say in the dressing room? Don't Leeds or Norwich have players on more money than other squad players?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 13, 2019, 07:19:34 PM
I don’t buy the money thing at all. Last season Terry, Snodgrass, Grabban, Jedinak, Whelan etc would all have been on great money relative to much of the rest of the squad. But you saw how tight knit a group it was. We don’t have genuine leaders. And I’m not talking about blokes who’ve been captain like Hourihane or Lansbury. Actual leaders of the club. Strong personalities that when the going gets tough can motivate or simply those that are well organized and highly disciplined. We don’t have the talent to overcome those weaknesses.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on January 13, 2019, 07:21:00 PM
Isn't this just what Smith does?

Goes from red hit form for 7 or 8 games to a winless spell? I'm really seeing no evidence of a power struggle.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on January 13, 2019, 07:21:13 PM
Quote from: Risso on January 13, 2019, 06:42:08 PM
Quote from: Ads on January 13, 2019, 06:39:34 PM
Power struggle between who?

Possibly between one or two of our big time charlies who think they are better than they actually are and our nice guy manager who might not be used to dealing with such characters?  Something doesn't seem right at the moment.


One issue though could be that these players aren't all up to learning the new methods and taking the information on board .

As they have established their playing style rather than them being totally big time

I did think something in that the established players are perhaps feeling some Smith's idea are more for up and coming and youth

That an established manager like Bruce has been shifted aside who just kept it simple and basic

Some of these players enjoyed that easy style perhaps

Not saying it was ill disciplines as Bruce had an organisation in team last season

This season is a mess and maybe players are getting disillusioned.

Coaches coming in with new ideas

The rotating captain thing , watching Man City and Chelsea videos.
May not be every ones shirt of choice

On coaching
So what's JT actually doing . A young inexperience coach.

And O'Kelly who hasn't worked with this level and quality of player before .

I think comes down to players not fitting system but these could be other factors in getting the team and squad together.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on January 13, 2019, 07:22:17 PM
Quote from: Risso on January 13, 2019, 06:42:08 PM
Quote from: Ads on January 13, 2019, 06:39:34 PM
Power struggle between who?

Possibly between one or two of our big time charlies who think they are better than they actually are and our nice guy manager who might not be used to dealing with such characters?  Something doesn't seem right at the moment.
You could be onto something there Risso - I don't think he has had to deal with such players ( extremely high paid one's) at previous clubs - I should imagine he was the highest paid  employee at Walsall and Brentford. Before judging him he needs to be allowed time to bring in his own players
You don't think he has fallen out with Terry?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on January 13, 2019, 07:26:38 PM
Guess likes of El Ghazi, Elphick, Adomah and Kodjia will have various issues atm with the manager.

All can be easily binned off end of the season.

1 on loan, two out of contract and Kodj will have just a year left.

Think we'll see a huge squad overhaul in five months time. Just hope we can get it right for once.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on January 13, 2019, 07:31:00 PM
Quote from: Taylor on January 13, 2019, 07:10:56 PM
Quote from: brian green on January 13, 2019, 07:00:23 PM
I think Risso is right  but I suspect it is about money.  I have learned over many years that money is frequently the cause of unexplained discord.  What is the issue?  I don't know but if Bolaise is on £80k a week (rumoured) and (say) Keinan Davis is on £2k a week there are bound to be undercurrents of discord.  Or Whelan on £40k and O'Hare on £500 a week.







But surely this is the same at any club, o'hare and Davis aren't first team regulars. Would they have that much say in the dressing room? Don't Leeds or Norwich have players on more money than other squad players?

If you're  talking  money some players would be on a lot more than the manager in his career.

The level of credentials rather than respect is something that may be questioned by these players.

I do think Smith would cull any big time charlies though the issue could be JT and where he sits in this.

Smith has praised Whelan and Jedinak for their professionalism

Hutton respected too.

I think the discord could be with those who won't get a look in ahead of loan players



Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villa75 on January 13, 2019, 07:33:42 PM
A good manager would deal with any "power struggle". Not that I think that excuse should come out every time a manager fails to get the expected results. There was no evidence of a power struggle a month or so ago.

The players seemed to have been knocked by some disappointing results. It's the managers job to get them back in track.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on January 13, 2019, 07:35:30 PM
Dean Smith is a head coach .
He's there for coaching skills .

Managing could be another story especially at this level

Maybe that is now the issue .

He's coaching them but not managing them and it's all a bit lost on the transition
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: London Villan on January 13, 2019, 07:38:09 PM
He doesn’t have one of his lieutenants on the pitch yet either. Bruce had snodgrass, elmo, terry and even chester who he had managed previously, to carry out his orders.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT on January 13, 2019, 07:38:28 PM
I'd say many of the players have contributed to the poor results themselves by failing to put in the minimum of effort.

Maybe they're going down the Man U route and hoping for a Moyes, Allardyce type.

Whatever the reasons, we've gone from looking very, very strong to being an absolute shitshow in a matter of weeks. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villa75 on January 13, 2019, 07:39:05 PM
Quote from: john e on January 13, 2019, 05:04:19 PM
The new manager bounce was 1 win and 2 losses, hardly a bounce



3 games is hardly a useful yardstick.

First 10 games (WDL) was 5-3-2

That's a decent 50% win ratio.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on January 13, 2019, 07:57:09 PM
Occams Razor needs applying here. We're vastly over thinking without any evidence to support the hypotheses.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Fred Crump on January 13, 2019, 08:08:31 PM
Quote from: Rico on January 13, 2019, 06:37:29 PM
Two or three more results like yesterday and we will be in full on crisis. The meaning evil will have a broken Villa badge on the back page and Talk Shite will be asking how long before Smith gets the bullet.

I have no other reason other than a gut feeling but I think we may be seeing a power struggle in progress. Like I say no other reason other than a strange déjà vu feeling of been here before. You don't go from playing like Barcelona (bit of an exaggeration I know) one week to Nuneaton Borough the next. Trouble is the managers never seem to win when it comes down to a clash of personalities.

Oi ! You leave my beloved Borough out of this !  :)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on January 13, 2019, 09:33:06 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on January 13, 2019, 07:39:05 PM
Quote from: john e on January 13, 2019, 05:04:19 PM
The new manager bounce was 1 win and 2 losses, hardly a bounce



3 games is hardly a useful yardstick.

First 10 games (WDL) was 5-3-2

That's a decent 50% win ratio.


3 games is nothing to judge a new manager on I agree
but 3 games is the 'bounce' a bounce doesn't go on and on its over in a jiffy
that's why they call it a bounce

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villa75 on January 13, 2019, 09:51:10 PM
Quote from: john e on January 13, 2019, 09:33:06 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on January 13, 2019, 07:39:05 PM
Quote from: john e on January 13, 2019, 05:04:19 PM
The new manager bounce was 1 win and 2 losses, hardly a bounce



3 games is hardly a useful yardstick.

First 10 games (WDL) was 5-3-2

That's a decent 50% win ratio.


3 games is nothing to judge a new manager on I agree
but 3 games is the 'bounce' a bounce doesn't go on and on its over in a jiffy
that's why they call it a bounce

Have you got a link for that 'fact'?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on January 13, 2019, 10:30:17 PM
Surely we can only judge a bounce over several games and not just three?  I totally agree that we have not bounced, no argument at all there.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: passport1 on January 13, 2019, 10:54:43 PM
I suspect the Hull game will be a defining moment for Deano.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on January 13, 2019, 11:00:20 PM
I suspect it will be just another game.

We're very conceited in this age. Even this forum is but a means to exercise our narcissism. We have to give meaning and significance to the unremarkable.

It's just us playing them. A few thousand people will care for a few days before and after. Nothing more. Nothing less.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Fred Crump on January 13, 2019, 11:08:31 PM
All the world’s a stage,
And all the men and women merely players;
They have their exits and their entrances;
And one man in his time plays many parts...
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on January 13, 2019, 11:09:45 PM
Time is a flat circle.

Which reminds me to get Sky on record as this one looks like the first one and that is a good thing. Southern Gothica for the win.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on January 14, 2019, 09:15:37 AM
Crikey other sites have people wanting him sacked.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 14, 2019, 09:21:53 AM
Blimey, the last few weeks have been frustrating but wanting him sacked already is bonkers.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AndyB6 on January 14, 2019, 09:21:55 AM
I really think that our new owners and staffing structure (with a real CEO and Sporting Director in place) will get it right. How long it will take I don't know.
Dean Smith needs an opportunity to get his own players in ASAP.
I think what is a massive problem is that when well over half of the team are not performing for you and the youth do not appear to be good enough / ready yet - where do you go?
He can't drop them all as he won't be able to put a team out. I hope is getting them in for one-to-ones and trying to get them on board. Their lack of effort and commitment on the pitch is shameful.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on January 14, 2019, 10:00:39 AM
We can’t & won’t sack him. That would be stupid, however criticism is justified at the moment, he needs to get a grip of the players & playing style very soon, otherwise the grumbles will get louder.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: darren woolley on January 14, 2019, 10:07:19 AM
I think Dean Smith will get it right he just needs time as for calling for his head on social media it's ridiculous yes the Wigan game wasn't very good and we ain't pulling any trees up at the moment but I'm convinced it will all come good in the end under him keep the faith.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: UK Redsox on January 14, 2019, 10:14:37 AM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on January 14, 2019, 09:21:53 AM
Blimey, the last few weeks have been frustrating but wanting him sacked already is bonkers.

Yep, too early to be calling for his head but not too early to be a bit concerned that Smith might not be the saviour many expected.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: old man villa fan on January 14, 2019, 10:50:10 AM
People are talking about the effect of Grealish missing but we should not lose sight of how much contribution Axel was making by bringing the ball out of defence and putting us on the front foot.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on January 14, 2019, 11:07:23 AM
He certainly allowed the smooth transition as he could drive on 10/15 yards, where as the rest of our centre halves can only angle square into the full backs. If you're being pressed as we were Saturday then your full backs are deep and your wingers starting position is deep as a consequence.

Nobody in the midfield to receive a pass beyond McGinn and all of a sudden we're incredibly predictable.

Factor in that we cannot win the ball back quickly, as we lack physical presence and/or legs (depending on who of BB, Hourihane or Whelan we're referring to) and it's a perfect storm.

We've lost two ball players who can both move the game on; Tuanzebe into midfield where his pace and passing frees others up and isn't so easy to contain and of course Grealish who draws players to him and moves it on with prescion and pace.

To want Smith gone now or to draw a conclusion that he ought to go is baffling. We need to address the poor form since the Albion and quickly. New blood, especially at full back and midfield can only help.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on January 14, 2019, 11:07:41 AM
Quote from: passport1 on January 13, 2019, 10:54:43 PM
I suspect the Hull game will be a defining moment for Deano.
How will it? He's been here for 3 months and he's still working with the most unbalanced squad in living memory since Bruce departed. I think we're a long way off calling anything a "defining moment for Deano"
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villa75 on January 14, 2019, 12:01:36 PM
Part of the problem is that we have seen these players performing much, much better than they are. Missing one player should not mean we should expect to be playing at such a different, almost pathetic, level.

If it's not the manager's job to reinvigorate the players,and get them focused, positive, confident, and playing in a cohesive manner then what is his job?

If Smith can only ever get a better performance than the last two when he's got his first eleven, then he's not the manager we hoped he was.

I agree with others. It's way too early to be calling for his head. But it's not too early to have real concerns.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on January 14, 2019, 01:24:06 PM
I think there's a few problems here.

Grealish missing means less space but it also means the ball is coming back too easily, his ability to drag players around and hold on to the ball disrupts teams so even if they get the ball back they're not able to get into attacking positions as quickly so we have more time to sort ourselves out.

The emphasis on passing out through midfield and working space to play through is a big change to how we play and it's highlighted some poor technical skills in the squad.

The emphasis on coordinated pressing high up the pitch and making teams earn the right to play requires a higher level of fitness than retreating into our own half and the effort of that in games and training is taking a toll, particularly given the stamina for it wasn't built up during the summer. The fast turn around of games over Christmas, coupled with a number of players out injured or playing through injuries has just pushed the squad over the edge.

Getting some fresh legs in, from the U23s or as signings, who give us the improved technique and extra fitness will be a massive benefit. That said Smith hasn't helped himself with the subs he's made in the last few weeks.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on January 14, 2019, 02:24:19 PM
Dean Smith isn't guardiola and someone mentioned he's like guardiola sticking to his system and style regardless

That's more than naive as much as footballing principles are admirable football is a results business.

For debate if don't win and perform in the next 3 to 4 matches , I feel discontented and so will a number of people.

That said I prepared to wait it out for next season and beyond as Smith builds his team and squad of ball players and attractive brand of football.
It's the long game here it really is .

What's needed is some flexibility to get us out of this mid table , poor form and heap villa back to higher echelons . As I see it , that isn't happening and it's the long game and not till next season if not another when villa and Smith can really build.

Pochetini , Klopp, have had 4 or so years .
I really think there is a chance in 4 years Villa will be premier league and comfortable with an identity under Smith.

If we want the rainbow we have to put up with the rain



Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on January 14, 2019, 02:31:18 PM
Quote from: old man villa fan on January 14, 2019, 10:50:10 AM
People are talking about the effect of Grealish missing but we should not lose sight of how much contribution Axel was making by bringing the ball out of defence and putting us on the front foot.

That's a very good point actually.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on January 14, 2019, 02:45:26 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on January 14, 2019, 12:01:36 PM
Part of the problem is that we have seen these players performing much, much better than they are. Missing one player should not mean we should expect to be playing at such a different, almost pathetic, level.

If it's not the manager's job to reinvigorate the players,and get them focused, positive, confident, and playing in a cohesive manner then what is his job?

If Smith can only ever get a better performance than the last two when he's got his first eleven, then he's not the manager we hoped he was.

I agree with others. It's way too early to be calling for his head. But it's not too early to have real concerns.

I agree with most of that. Yes we haven’t got Jack at the moment but no other team in this division have a £40m rated player, and we certainly wont have him next season in this league.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 14, 2019, 02:59:12 PM
There are crazy people all over the place. Be concerned. Be angry. But calling for a manager to be sacked three months in is fucking bonkers. I don’t want us to be those types of fans or that type of club.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on January 14, 2019, 03:00:40 PM
Sorry, who has called for Smih to be sacked?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: old man villa fan on January 14, 2019, 03:03:21 PM
Impatience and hurt egos, symptoms of the modern day.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sirlordbaltimore on January 14, 2019, 03:11:28 PM
Quote from: Clampy on January 14, 2019, 02:31:18 PM
Quote from: old man villa fan on January 14, 2019, 10:50:10 AM
People are talking about the effect of Grealish missing but we should not lose sight of how much contribution Axel was making by bringing the ball out of defence and putting us on the front foot.

That's a very good point actually.

I'm also already seeing a huge difference in our ability to get the ball out quick with the universally panned Nyland and the new bloke taking a lot longer which doesn't help us at all IMHO

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on January 14, 2019, 03:12:08 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on January 14, 2019, 02:59:12 PM
There are crazy people all over the place. Be concerned. Be angry. But calling for a manager to be sacked three months in is fucking bonkers. I don’t want us to be those types of fans or that type of club.

The majority of us including you, and I will add that I did as well, wanted RDM gone after 7 weeks.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 14, 2019, 03:21:23 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on January 14, 2019, 03:12:08 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on January 14, 2019, 02:59:12 PM
There are crazy people all over the place. Be concerned. Be angry. But calling for a manager to be sacked three months in is fucking bonkers. I don’t want us to be those types of fans or that type of club.

The majority of us including you, and I will add that I did as well, wanted RDM gone after 7 weeks.

RDM had a pre season to work with and many, millions of £ spent on bringing in new players. The start we had with him was dreadful. So it wasn’t 7 weeks, more like 4 or 5 months overall where literally no progress was made culminating in that capitulation at Preston. Dean Smith by comparison took over a side that was going absolutely nowhere with Bruce after the best part of 2 years. Playing no defined style unless you consider smashing it fork. The back a style. He comes in and immediately sets on a different trajectory before being hit by injuries to arguably the two of three players he least wanted to lose (Abraham the other).

So for me as much as the last month as been tough this isn’t the same as RDM. And considering we gave that fucking plodder Bruce two years we owe Smith time to fix this. He’s made mistakes and he knows it. But this is still Bruce’s stinky poop he’s cleaning up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on January 14, 2019, 03:22:55 PM
Quote from: Risso on January 14, 2019, 03:00:40 PM
Sorry, who has called for Smih to be sacked?

Occcam Razor, think he's one of Kourtney Hause's grime buddies.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT Villan on January 14, 2019, 03:23:59 PM
I agree that JG and AT missing has an effect, but that is not sufficient to explain why professional footballers suddenly seem incapable of passing the ball 5yds to someone else in a Villa shirt. In addition, it plays no part in personal pride and application - many of our 'stars' have shamefully not put in a shift during the last few games.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on January 14, 2019, 03:29:00 PM
The 'Bruce Out' thread appeared after 4 months, including pre-season it was 4 months for RDM as well. To try and say we don't want to be that kind of club when after 10 league games for RDM and 20 for Bruce, and 4 months at the club for both, loads wanted them sacked is a bit saft.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Allan C on January 14, 2019, 03:49:16 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on January 14, 2019, 03:21:23 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on January 14, 2019, 03:12:08 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on January 14, 2019, 02:59:12 PM
There are crazy people all over the place. Be concerned. Be angry. But calling for a manager to be sacked three months in is fucking bonkers. I don’t want us to be those types of fans or that type of club.

The majority of us including you, and I will add that I did as well, wanted RDM gone after 7 weeks.

RDM had a pre season to work with and many, millions of £ spent on bringing in new players. The start we had with him was dreadful. So it wasn’t 7 weeks, more like 4 or 5 months overall where literally no progress was made culminating in that capitulation at Preston. Dean Smith by comparison took over a side that was going absolutely nowhere with Bruce after the best part of 2 years. Playing no defined style unless you consider smashing it fork. The back a style. He comes in and immediately sets on a different trajectory before being hit by injuries to arguably the two of three players he least wanted to lose (Abraham the other).

So for me as much as the last month as been tough this isn’t the same as RDM. And considering we gave that fucking plodder Bruce two years we owe Smith time to fix this. He’s made mistakes and he knows it. But this is still Bruce’s stinky poop he’s cleaning up.
I’m absolutely gobsmacked that fans are thinking about the possibility of sacking the manager. Dean Smith’s tenure can still be measured in days in which time he’s had the opportunity to bring in one player. compare this with Bruce who was given three years to get us to the point we’re at now. Despite many shocking performances, fans were prepared to give him so many chances and excuses. The new manager must be given time to rebuild the dire mess left by his predecessor. That I think will be a minimum of three windows.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: achilles on January 14, 2019, 03:54:07 PM
The most concerning thing about last Saturday was that we got outplayed by a bunch of journeymen who most supporters would be aghast at the thought of any of them being transfer targets for Villa!

So where does that put us?

I witnessed us absolutely batter Derby away, especially in that second half, it was fantastic and this was the team:
O Nyland, J Chester, A Tuanzebe, N Taylor (A Elmohamady, 45), A Hutton, C Hourihane, A Adomah, J McGinn, J Kodjia (Y Bolasie, 70), J Grealish, T Abraham (S Hogan, 87)

What has changed to Wigan's team:
Nyland missing - injured (no loss);
Hutton not starting;
Axel not starting - injured;
Grealish not starting - injured;
Adomah not starting;
Kodjia not starting - injured?;
Bolasie starting;
El Ghazi starting;
Bjarnason starting;
Bree starting;
Elphick starting;

The next away display against Middlesboro was another great display and this was the team:
O Nyland, A Elmohamady, N Taylor, A Tuanzebe, J Chester, C Hourihane, Y Bolasie (J Kodjia, 73), J McGinn (S Hogan, 82), A El Ghazi, J Grealish, T Abraham (G Whelan, 82)

What has changed to Wigan's team:
Nyland missing - injured (no loss);
Elmohamady not starting;
Axel not starting - injured;
Grealish not starting - injured;
El Ghazi starting;
Bree starting;
Elphick starting;

Basically what that tells me is that:

Bree and Elphick have returned and we have conceded 6 goals and Axel is a massive loss!
Grealish is surprisingly (at least to me) the catalyst that seems to hold the side together and influence us much more than I thought.

Basically we need to replace Grealish (at least until he returns from injury) with a midfield player to hold us together a bit like Huddlestone, otherwise I can see us continue this downward spiral!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on January 14, 2019, 03:56:35 PM
Missing my point, I don't want Smith sacked, but the whole "not that type of club" when MON was probably the last full time manager to reach the 30 game mark without a large number of the support either wanting them gone or at least seriously questioning them is saft. We are that type of club, and I include myself in that as I wanted a fair few of them gone pretty sharpish and i'm not going to change how we've been as a fan base just because I'm in favour of Smith.

And some gave Bruce that long, go look at the Bruce out thread that was started after 4 months to see plenty also wanted him gone after less than half a season, including me.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chris Smith on January 14, 2019, 04:06:47 PM
This site is notoriously impatient, I would say that the wider match going fan base moves more cautiously.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on January 14, 2019, 04:09:01 PM
It also seems a bit daft to be beating ourselves up about the impatience of wanting him sacked so quickly when no-one has said anything of the sort.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 14, 2019, 04:16:34 PM
Quote from: PeterWithe on January 14, 2019, 04:09:01 PM
It also seems a bit daft to be beating ourselves up about the impatience of wanting him sacked so quickly when no-one has said anything of the sort.

I don’t think anyone on here has, but the initial comment came from these who took a wrong turn and ended up on rival Villa sites.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on January 14, 2019, 04:18:35 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on January 14, 2019, 03:56:35 PM
Missing my point, I don't want Smith sacked, but the whole "not that type of club" when MON was probably the last full time manager to reach the 30 game mark without a large number of the support either wanting them gone or at least seriously questioning them is saft. We are that type of club, and I include myself in that as I wanted a fair few of them gone pretty sharpish and i'm not going to change how we've been as a fan base just because I'm in favour of Smith.

And some gave Bruce that long, go look at the Bruce out thread that was started after 4 months to see plenty also wanted him gone after less than half a season, including me.

I'll hold my hand up to that but I'm going to caveat it slightly. If we have a manager who is a promotion expert and has been given the job on the back of that title then, for me, he delivers promotion or he should be sacked. If we have a manager who is a coach that improves players and gets teams playing exciting attacking football then I'm willing to give him more time to see if he can do that because even if the results aren't quite there I have hope that the work on the training ground i laying the groundwork for better things, even if that ultimately comes from another manager. Some people may think I'm a hypocrite to be so vocal against one manager and then give the next much more slack but I'm just judging them on their own criteria, if your only focus is results and how they're achieved makes no difference then you're always in danger if you can't deliver them consistently that was always my biggest issue with Bruce.

RDM I just didn't care, I didn't particularly want him to stay but I had concerns that the replacement would just be someone from the merry-go-round and we'd be straight back to making the sort of mistakes that caused the relegation in the first place. I'd personally have given him another 7-8 games with his full squad before I moved him on but it was fairly obvious that Wyness wanted his man in.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: DB on January 14, 2019, 05:31:47 PM
Quote from: Clampy on January 14, 2019, 02:31:18 PM
Quote from: old man villa fan on January 14, 2019, 10:50:10 AM
People are talking about the effect of Grealish missing but we should not lose sight of how much contribution Axel was making by bringing the ball out of defence and putting us on the front foot.

That's a very good point actually.

I would both were 2/3 of our best players this season and we have lost them both. McGinn being the other
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on January 14, 2019, 06:08:09 PM
All for people variety of views and opinions however , to understand that it's how it is now for grumble and discontent to come along at first signs of , well basically, not winning .

I can only imagine people are confused and
think it's football from previous time and era.
 
Get this, in my opinion:coaches and managers are under pressure from the get go.

Look at Forest no manager/coach has completed a full season since 2012  (Billy Davies)

Stoke have changed on several managers in the last year.

The manager/coach is there to work with the players he has at the time of his reign and it's both a combination of results and performances that get judged.

The limited time factor for tenure is how it is.

The majority of clubs will move on managers and coaches like players get moved on

I'm well aware of that and i just really understand that football managers and coaches are like players and will be shipped out /dropped if they don't meet requirements.

Ask yourself this :
Why should anyone now in football get the time ?
(As much as why players or coaches / managers do get time)

What is good is with Smith we have a loyal coach

You can't say that for majority of clubs .

So it looks like there been a business a d footballing decision to take on a coach who can build  with a footballing identity.

The dean Smith play and brand of football hasn't got the years of experience of other plus there is the lack of top level experience.


However there is a knowledge , a clear idea of ideal tactics and footballing style.

It will take time to implement it and having Dean Smith means he will get the time.

That said as football is more here and now that ever the long game can be painful, confusing and frustrating.

I think when it clicks at a club it clicks and there is super potential for this .

It's not the way of the modern game , and general society, to give much time to things without satisfaction, so it will be interesting development all round


Dean Smith has showed signs of giving satisfaction .

Let's hope for more climaxes as it's a case of slowly being turned on and making love rather than splurting it all on a quickie.

Up the villa


 

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TheMalandro on January 14, 2019, 06:29:17 PM
I didn’t expect the sexual tangent, footyskillz!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on January 14, 2019, 06:59:49 PM
Again, who has suggested sacking Smith? Haven’t seen anything like that said, even on Twitter.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT Villan on January 14, 2019, 07:05:30 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on January 14, 2019, 03:56:35 PM
Missing my point, I don't want Smith sacked, but the whole "not that type of club" when MON was probably the last full time manager to reach the 30 game mark without a large number of the support either wanting them gone or at least seriously questioning them is saft.

Granted I haven't gone back and checked previous threads, but I feel like Lambert was afforded a tremendous amount of time before we wanted him out. Like I say, I could be talking out my arse - it's a particular talent of mine.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on January 14, 2019, 07:08:50 PM
If Smith is tantric sex then Bruce was death by autoerotic asphyxiation.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: stuart445 on January 14, 2019, 07:11:51 PM
Quote from: paul_e on January 14, 2019, 04:18:35 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on January 14, 2019, 03:56:35 PM
Missing my point, I don't want Smith sacked, but the whole "not that type of club" when MON was probably the last full time manager to reach the 30 game mark without a large number of the support either wanting them gone or at least seriously questioning them is saft. We are that type of club, and I include myself in that as I wanted a fair few of them gone pretty sharpish and i'm not going to change how we've been as a fan base just because I'm in favour of Smith.

And some gave Bruce that long, go look at the Bruce out thread that was started after 4 months to see plenty also wanted him gone after less than half a season, including me.

I'll hold my hand up to that but I'm going to caveat it slightly. If we have a manager who is a promotion expert and has been given the job on the back of that title then, for me, he delivers promotion or he should be sacked. If we have a manager who is a coach that improves players and gets teams playing exciting attacking football then I'm willing to give him more time to see if he can do that because even if the results aren't quite there I have hope that the work on the training ground i laying the groundwork for better things, even if that ultimately comes from another manager. Some people may think I'm a hypocrite to be so vocal against one manager and then give the next much more slack but I'm just judging them on their own criteria, if your only focus is results and how they're achieved makes no difference then you're always in danger if you can't deliver them consistently that was always my biggest issue with Bruce.

RDM I just didn't care, I didn't particularly want him to stay but I had concerns that the replacement would just be someone from the merry-go-round and we'd be straight back to making the sort of mistakes that caused the relegation in the first place. I'd personally have given him another 7-8 games with his full squad before I moved him on but it was fairly obvious that Wyness wanted his man in.

You're right,  hypocrite is spot on.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: stuart445 on January 14, 2019, 07:25:18 PM
Just read very worrying comment from a Brentford Fan.  Some of it scarily familiar to what we are seeing now.

Quote
Dean Smith only had a 40.74% win rate with us, Mark Warburton 51.28% and Uwe Rossler 43.08%, So we actually took a step backwards with employing him, granted he got us playing a very high pressing fast game that was a joy to watch but on the other hand our defending was terrible and we leaked a lot of silly goals, I have watched Villa a few times this season and can see a mirror image of how we played.

His main fault with us was his substitution policy, he either left it too late, changed the wrong players and without changing tactics, he left us for you on the back of a no win in 5 games, we continued this vein with our new Head Coach with only 2 wins in ten, However, he has now changed our defensive formation and steadied the ship and and we are unbeaten in 6 and only conceded 3 goals, and comprehensively beat Stoke on Saturday with a fantastic display.

His record at Walsall was the same, good attacking football but leaking goals, so a pattern seems to be forming with you as well, it seems he is unable to cure this inherent problem, did your board not take this into consideration and not gone for someone experienced with a Big club history and culture like Villa have.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TheMalandro on January 14, 2019, 07:26:29 PM
Hypocrite?

No, I’d say that judgment shows somebody that knows his football.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on January 14, 2019, 08:16:02 PM
Quote from: CT Villan on January 14, 2019, 07:05:30 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on January 14, 2019, 03:56:35 PM
Missing my point, I don't want Smith sacked, but the whole "not that type of club" when MON was probably the last full time manager to reach the 30 game mark without a large number of the support either wanting them gone or at least seriously questioning them is saft.

Granted I haven't gone back and checked previous threads, but I feel like Lambert was afforded a tremendous amount of time before we wanted him out. Like I say, I could be talking out my arse - it's a particular talent of mine.

Some wanted him gone after 15-0 week which was 20 league games, even more after Bradford, and Millwall a few weeks later.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on January 14, 2019, 08:34:56 PM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 14, 2019, 07:11:51 PM
Quote from: paul_e on January 14, 2019, 04:18:35 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on January 14, 2019, 03:56:35 PM
Missing my point, I don't want Smith sacked, but the whole "not that type of club" when MON was probably the last full time manager to reach the 30 game mark without a large number of the support either wanting them gone or at least seriously questioning them is saft. We are that type of club, and I include myself in that as I wanted a fair few of them gone pretty sharpish and i'm not going to change how we've been as a fan base just because I'm in favour of Smith.

And some gave Bruce that long, go look at the Bruce out thread that was started after 4 months to see plenty also wanted him gone after less than half a season, including me.

I'll hold my hand up to that but I'm going to caveat it slightly. If we have a manager who is a promotion expert and has been given the job on the back of that title then, for me, he delivers promotion or he should be sacked. If we have a manager who is a coach that improves players and gets teams playing exciting attacking football then I'm willing to give him more time to see if he can do that because even if the results aren't quite there I have hope that the work on the training ground i laying the groundwork for better things, even if that ultimately comes from another manager. Some people may think I'm a hypocrite to be so vocal against one manager and then give the next much more slack but I'm just judging them on their own criteria, if your only focus is results and how they're achieved makes no difference then you're always in danger if you can't deliver them consistently that was always my biggest issue with Bruce.

RDM I just didn't care, I didn't particularly want him to stay but I had concerns that the replacement would just be someone from the merry-go-round and we'd be straight back to making the sort of mistakes that caused the relegation in the first place. I'd personally have given him another 7-8 games with his full squad before I moved him on but it was fairly obvious that Wyness wanted his man in.

You're right,  hypocrite is spot on.

The worst thing is the original version of that line was "I'm sure stuart will be along in a minute to call me a hypocrite for being ..." I changed it because I didn't want to single you out but fucking hell if you aren't predictable.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on January 14, 2019, 08:42:00 PM
It is hypocritical, we're football fans so we're pretty much all hypocrites at times. Same as we're biased and at times irrational on things to do with Villa and other clubs. We're the same as fans of every club in every league in every country.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on January 14, 2019, 09:07:54 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on January 14, 2019, 08:42:00 PM
It is hypocritical, we're football fans so we're pretty much all hypocrites at times. Same as we're biased and at times irrational on things to do with Villa and other clubs. We're the same as fans of every club in every league in every country.

Biased and irrational is the fuel of almost all football conversations. I'll freely admit that I'm biased against Bruce, but it's because I have lots of Sunderland connections and I don't know a single one who has anything good to say about the bloke, literally everything they complained about happened to us within his first year. I'm not sure thinking he was a shit manager and therefore having little patience with him makes me a hypocrite though.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on January 14, 2019, 09:23:56 PM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 14, 2019, 07:25:18 PM
Just read very worrying comment from a Brentford Fan.  Some of it scarily familiar to what we are seeing now.

Quote
Dean Smith only had a 40.74% win rate with us, Mark Warburton 51.28% and Uwe Rossler 43.08%, So we actually took a step backwards with employing him, granted he got us playing a very high pressing fast game that was a joy to watch but on the other hand our defending was terrible and we leaked a lot of silly goals, I have watched Villa a few times this season and can see a mirror image of how we played.

His main fault with us was his substitution policy, he either left it too late, changed the wrong players and without changing tactics, he left us for you on the back of a no win in 5 games, we continued this vein with our new Head Coach with only 2 wins in ten, However, he has now changed our defensive formation and steadied the ship and and we are unbeaten in 6 and only conceded 3 goals, and comprehensively beat Stoke on Saturday with a fantastic display.

His record at Walsall was the same, good attacking football but leaking goals, so a pattern seems to be forming with you as well, it seems he is unable to cure this inherent problem, did your board not take this into consideration and not gone for someone experienced with a Big club history and culture like Villa have.
The last line "big club history and culture like villa have" is what makes the rest of the statement a bit pointless though. We aren't bloody Brentford or Walsall. We are Aston Villa where the possibilities for success are infinitely more achievable if they get it right. Deanos upgraded from a Ford Fiesta to a Bentley. Let's just give him time to see how he handles it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on January 14, 2019, 09:24:55 PM
I think 'skillz already has post of the year in the bag. Not even Swiss Tony could have said it as well as that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: stuart445 on January 14, 2019, 10:05:32 PM
Quote from: The Edge on January 14, 2019, 09:23:56 PM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 14, 2019, 07:25:18 PM
Just read very worrying comment from a Brentford Fan.  Some of it scarily familiar to what we are seeing now.

Quote
Dean Smith only had a 40.74% win rate with us, Mark Warburton 51.28% and Uwe Rossler 43.08%, So we actually took a step backwards with employing him, granted he got us playing a very high pressing fast game that was a joy to watch but on the other hand our defending was terrible and we leaked a lot of silly goals, I have watched Villa a few times this season and can see a mirror image of how we played.

His main fault with us was his substitution policy, he either left it too late, changed the wrong players and without changing tactics, he left us for you on the back of a no win in 5 games, we continued this vein with our new Head Coach with only 2 wins in ten, However, he has now changed our defensive formation and steadied the ship and and we are unbeaten in 6 and only conceded 3 goals, and comprehensively beat Stoke on Saturday with a fantastic display.

His record at Walsall was the same, good attacking football but leaking goals, so a pattern seems to be forming with you as well, it seems he is unable to cure this inherent problem, did your board not take this into consideration and not gone for someone experienced with a Big club history and culture like Villa have.
The last line "big club history and culture like villa have" is what makes the rest of the statement a bit pointless though. We aren't bloody Brentford or Walsall. We are Aston Villa where the possibilities for success are infinitely more achievable if they get it right. Deanos upgraded from a Ford Fiesta to a Bentley. Let's just give him time to see how he handles it.

But yet the Bentley is behaving just like a Ford Fiesta
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on January 14, 2019, 10:08:20 PM
Quote from: The Edge on January 14, 2019, 09:23:56 PM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 14, 2019, 07:25:18 PM
Just read very worrying comment from a Brentford Fan.  Some of it scarily familiar to what we are seeing now.

Quote
Dean Smith only had a 40.74% win rate with us, Mark Warburton 51.28% and Uwe Rossler 43.08%, So we actually took a step backwards with employing him, granted he got us playing a very high pressing fast game that was a joy to watch but on the other hand our defending was terrible and we leaked a lot of silly goals, I have watched Villa a few times this season and can see a mirror image of how we played.

His main fault with us was his substitution policy, he either left it too late, changed the wrong players and without changing tactics, he left us for you on the back of a no win in 5 games, we continued this vein with our new Head Coach with only 2 wins in ten, However, he has now changed our defensive formation and steadied the ship and and we are unbeaten in 6 and only conceded 3 goals, and comprehensively beat Stoke on Saturday with a fantastic display.

His record at Walsall was the same, good attacking football but leaking goals, so a pattern seems to be forming with you as well, it seems he is unable to cure this inherent problem, did your board not take this into consideration and not gone for someone experienced with a Big club history and culture like Villa have.
The last line "big club history and culture like villa have" is what makes the rest of the statement a bit pointless though. We aren't bloody Brentford or Walsall. We are Aston Villa where the possibilities for success are infinitely more achievable if they get it right. Deanos upgraded from a Ford Fiesta to a Bentley. Let's just give him time to see how he handles it.

He does have a point as pretty much every season at Walsall the team would be playing o.k and in the top half of the league and then almost out of nowhere a winless 10 match run would pop up and kill the season.

I get the different sized clubs but the general trend seems to be the same with it now happening here.

What I don't get is after two dodgy performances v Stoke and Leeds you usually need a grinded out 1-0 win to snap out of that and we got it at Swansea so really disappointed how we've performed since at Preston and Wigan. I didn't see 1 point out of 6 at those two venues at all (QPR are playing well in fairness).

Those two games have knocked a fair bit of faith for this season as up to recently I still fully expected top 6.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on January 14, 2019, 10:25:42 PM
It's the hope that kills.  So very frustrating. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: old man villa fan on January 15, 2019, 02:10:53 AM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on January 14, 2019, 08:42:00 PM
It is hypocritical, we're football fans so we're pretty much all hypocrites at times. Same as we're biased and at times irrational on things to do with Villa and other clubs. We're the same as fans of every club in every league in every country.

Yes, that's true to some extent but paul_e explained the differences between the managers and why this means giving one more time than the other. That is not being a hypocrite and the post saying he was, was out if order, in my opinion.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on January 15, 2019, 10:35:51 AM
Quote from: Chris Smith on January 14, 2019, 04:06:47 PM
This site is notoriously impatient, I would say that the wider match going fan base moves more cautiously.

A few points on that:

- Absolutely nobody on here has called for Smith to be sacked.
- The away fans at Wigan on Saturday booed at the end of the game with a viciousness that took me aback.
- Impatient maybe, but on the whole usually proved right.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on January 15, 2019, 11:10:26 AM
Quote from: Risso on January 15, 2019, 10:35:51 AM
Quote from: Chris Smith on January 14, 2019, 04:06:47 PM
This site is notoriously impatient, I would say that the wider match going fan base moves more cautiously.

A few points on that:

- Absolutely nobody on here has called for Smith to be sacked.
- The away fans at Wigan on Saturday booed at the end of the game with a viciousness that took me aback.
- Impatient maybe, but on the whole usually proved right.

1 - Not yet but you can see people questioning whether he's up to it, saying he's shit, and questioning the appointment as if it was the wrong one.
2 - I'm pretty sure that was at the players rather than the manager, but who knows? It was utterly shit after all.
3 - The internet is an impatient place. Being proved right, I wonder if we did a poll about Smith what the view would be. I'm not starting one because it's pointless.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on January 15, 2019, 11:23:03 AM
I think that the vast majority of people recognise that he's a good manager, and needs time to bring his own players in and right the wrongs of the Bruce years. That doesn't make him exempt from criticism when he makes stupid mistakes though.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Des Little on January 15, 2019, 11:31:48 AM
I think anyone who saw the Wigan game would be rightfully alarmed, and the booing at the end was  justified, regardless of who the manager is or how long he's been in charge.  It was a diabolical performance that warranted criticism. This Saturday is a big game for Smith now because of it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: passport1 on January 15, 2019, 11:41:41 AM
I would imagine a good tonking by Hull would not result in the typical match going Villa fan ' caveating' their opinion about Deano.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clark W Griswold on January 15, 2019, 11:46:41 AM
He needs to build his own team and he needs time to make them look like a team. I think there comes a point when you can see that a manager has lost it and there's no coming back. Mine with Bruce was a combination of the baffling transfer window in August and the opening results up to and including Sheff Utd away. You could see at that point that he and his team were never going to achieve the ultimate goal. I think Smith needs to put his own stamp in it and keep improving and gaining momentum. Bruce went backwards in a big way July - October and there was no coming back. If Smith finds himself in a similar position in a couple of years it might be time to try someone else again at that point.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 15, 2019, 02:15:50 PM
Smith will know more about the players he has now.
Many are contracted until the summer and when you can expect the first big clear out.
There have been some worrying decisions over the last few weeks and he should and has been rightly criticized.
Until he is able to start to build his team then we are just going to have to be patient.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: jwarry on January 15, 2019, 02:39:56 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on January 15, 2019, 02:15:50 PM
Smith will know more about the players he has now.
Many are contracted until the summer and when you can expect the first big clear out.
There have been some worrying decisions over the last few weeks and he should and has been rightly criticized.
Until he is able to start to build his team then we are just going to have to be patient.

But will the new owners be that patient?!?  Edens is especially known not hanging about
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on January 15, 2019, 02:50:44 PM
Unless the wheels really come off I'd be amazed if he doesn't get the summer and a good chunk of next season before the owners start thinking about a change.

I like what he seems to be trying to do and really hope he turns it around.  But make no mistake he was brought in to get us promoted and ultimately that's what he will be judged on.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chris Smith on January 15, 2019, 03:07:44 PM
Quote from: jwarry on January 15, 2019, 02:39:56 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on January 15, 2019, 02:15:50 PM
Smith will know more about the players he has now.
Many are contracted until the summer and when you can expect the first big clear out.
There have been some worrying decisions over the last few weeks and he should and has been rightly criticized.
Until he is able to start to build his team then we are just going to have to be patient.

But will the new owners be that patient?!?  Edens is especially known not hanging about

Christian Purslow when asked is promotion this season critical:

“It’s not critical at all. The club was at its lowest ebb the day after the play-off final. A winding up order was served - the club was unable to meet a payment of under £5m to the tax authorities.

“Nassef and Wes sent in tens of millions of pounds directly into the club, clearing the liabilities and effectively creating a clean slate on which to build a recovery for the club.

“We’re not expecting or requiring to get promoted quickly. We’re trying to do things the right way in terms of the people we bring in to run the club and the way we play
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SamTheMouse on January 15, 2019, 03:11:32 PM
Give Smith a couple of transfer windows before judging him.

He has a preferred style of play which involves playing it out from the back and retaining possession, but the only defender capable of playing a pass is injured and it's made a big difference.

Once he's had a decent chance to put together a squad of his own choosing, we can start to decide whether he's the right man. Not before.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on January 15, 2019, 03:50:10 PM
Quote from: Risso on January 15, 2019, 11:23:03 AM
I think that the vast majority of people recognise that he's a good manager, and needs time to bring his own players in and right the wrongs of the Bruce years. That doesn't make him exempt from criticism when he makes stupid mistakes though.
About right that is.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on January 15, 2019, 03:54:44 PM
Quote from: Chris Smith on January 15, 2019, 03:07:44 PM
Quote from: jwarry on January 15, 2019, 02:39:56 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on January 15, 2019, 02:15:50 PM
Smith will know more about the players he has now.
Many are contracted until the summer and when you can expect the first big clear out.
There have been some worrying decisions over the last few weeks and he should and has been rightly criticized.
Until he is able to start to build his team then we are just going to have to be patient.

But will the new owners be that patient?!?  Edens is especially known not hanging about

Christian Purslow when asked is promotion this season critical:

“It’s not critical at all. The club was at its lowest ebb the day after the play-off final. A winding up order was served - the club was unable to meet a payment of under £5m to the tax authorities.

“Nassef and Wes sent in tens of millions of pounds directly into the club, clearing the liabilities and effectively creating a clean slate on which to build a recovery for the club.

“We’re not expecting or requiring to get promoted quickly. We’re trying to do things the right way in terms of the people we bring in to run the club and the way we play

As I say I think part of reason Smith was brought in as he's one who would get a longer time to build than a regular .

He's also cheap and works with building and developing players.

I also think having ploughed millions to clean the slate the owners aren't all out on being extra competitive for promotion straight away and want to play the long game .

Signings of intent would have been made otherwise.
And one could argue a major head coach would have been appointed.

It's marketed as "wanting to do things the right way" .

People aren't going to be too upset when it's put in such a way. 
It's a long term development procedure.
But also it's a dumbing down of villa status (realistic or otherwise)

So, there perhaps will be a period of being less competitive at the top level , moves for big signings.

Villa now are really looking to trade off the name in this , what I call,  'development ' era .
As an established and historic club and in the second tier villa will remain an attractive proposition.

There are already people who follow villa who would be ' happier ' and content with championship life .

The longer out of the premier league the more determent it is to the clubs prestige , brand and income .
It's harmful to the worldwide support and size and status of the club.

I see it as there isn't an imminent ambition and drive for success right now , just about "getting things right".

That's ok as previous regime showed relative ambition both in action and words ultimately failing .

It's make sense to communicate a different message whatever the real intentions are.

The way I see , another reason to why the owners and CEO , in part, picked Smith depsite  his lack  of top level experience is because hes essentially resourceful .

Smith will be using his experience of building up a team (but also squad) on a bigger level than previously.

But also the move was to somewhat appease fans in saying indirectly , we may not be promoted but your'll get a head coach who will focus on a clear football identity, a developed team and one of your own.

Whenever promotion occurs my forecast would be  CEO Purslow will move on like he has previous.
Say promotion is his remit he already dampen expectations by saying what hes said by promotion not needed .

I'm sorry that comment for a club the size of Aston Villa was ridiculous and lacks ambition.

Previously owners and people involved spoke business speak like Keith Wyness which supporters and fans were impressed with .

I wasn't impressed just interested similarly I'm less impressed with Purslow .

I'll be impressed when actions start to show the development and success I crave for Aston Villa.

At this moment the squad is really in transition and that should be said.

Like people have said there will be players out of contract and loans ending in season.

Then the rebuild begins.
And will be looking and expected to be competitive to the promotion challenge just because we are Aston Villa first and foremost.


For now I think it's a case of just playing football the Dean Smith way til end of season.

Be wins , be losses.

















Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on January 15, 2019, 04:03:04 PM
Quote from: SamTheMouse on January 15, 2019, 03:11:32 PM
Give Smith a couple of transfer windows before judging him.

He has a preferred style of play which involves playing it out from the back and retaining possession, but the only defender capable of playing a pass is injured and it's made a big difference.

Once he's had a decent chance to put together a squad of his own choosing, we can start to decide whether he's the right man. Not before.
Re: the point about Deano  wanting us to play out from the back is we don't have the players. On Saturday Whelan received the ball about 25 yards out. Under no pressure he trod on it then stumbled and their player nicked it. Whelan gave chase and gave away a pen. I don't blame Deano I blame the guy who filled our squad with journey men like Whelan and players who he picked up from Barnsley and Brentford. Deano has little choice but to try and impose his brand of football onto players who are just not capable. He will get it right when he can recruit the right players. His time will come. Our time will come. The setbacks and the utter rubbish we've been subjected to for a number of years will make it all the more enjoyable when it does. Keep he faith.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on January 15, 2019, 04:10:11 PM
Quote from: The Edge on January 15, 2019, 03:50:10 PM
Quote from: Risso on January 15, 2019, 11:23:03 AM
I think that the vast majority of people recognise that he's a good manager, and needs time to bring his own players in and right the wrongs of the Bruce years. That doesn't make him exempt from criticism when he makes stupid mistakes though.
About right that is.

I argue he was partly brought in as he's less likely to have criticism (as being proved) as the rebuild and development takes place .

It's a rational move as all his pros and cons will be met with differing opinion but he'll be give a super amount of time to get things right

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on January 15, 2019, 04:22:26 PM
Quote from: SamTheMouse on January 15, 2019, 03:11:32 PM
Give Smith a couple of transfer windows before judging him.

He has a preferred style of play which involves playing it out from the back and retaining possession, but the only defender capable of playing a pass is injured and it's made a big difference.

Once he's had a decent chance to put together a squad of his own choosing, we can start to decide whether he's the right man. Not before.

But I don't need to judge him on performance when he has his own team and squad as I already like the way smith wants his team to play football.


To me he's  the right man for the development side of things and building .
And the long game.

Have to say he has already been judged continuously in the job.

You and I, like many, have judged him too on his so called preferred playing style .

Also comments have helped reason to why the playing style isnt always being implemented in the team and squad he has picked.


If youre asking is he the right man in getting villa promotion?
Yes we will see about that over time
And that can only be judged on results and as you state a decent chance to put the squad together.

I can see that being 2 years from now which is ok and not ok.

Basically I'm wishing  in January 2020 competitive to the top 2 places in championship.
Though it could take longer
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Allan C on January 15, 2019, 04:59:52 PM
Quote from: The Edge on January 15, 2019, 04:03:04 PM
Quote from: SamTheMouse on January 15, 2019, 03:11:32 PM
Give Smith a couple of transfer windows before judging him.

He has a preferred style of play which involves playing it out from the back and retaining possession, but the only defender capable of playing a pass is injured and it's made a big difference.

Once he's had a decent chance to put together a squad of his own choosing, we can start to decide whether he's the right man. Not before.
Re: the point about Deano  wanting us to play out from the back is we don't have the players. On Saturday Whelan received the ball about 25 yards out. Under no pressure he trod on it then stumbled and their player nicked it. Whelan gave chase and gave away a pen. I don't blame Deano I blame the guy who filled our squad with journey men like Whelan and players who he picked up from Barnsley and Brentford. Deano has little choice but to try and impose his brand of football onto players who are just not capable. He will get it right when he can recruit the right players. His time will come. Our time will come. The setbacks and the utter rubbish we've been subjected to for a number of years will make it all the more enjoyable when it does. Keep he faith.
Correct 100 %
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Allan C on January 15, 2019, 05:02:08 PM
Quote from: footyskillz on January 15, 2019, 04:22:26 PM
Quote from: SamTheMouse on January 15, 2019, 03:11:32 PM
Give Smith a couple of transfer windows before judging him.

He has a preferred style of play which involves playing it out from the back and retaining possession, but the only defender capable of playing a pass is injured and it's made a big difference.

Once he's had a decent chance to put together a squad of his own choosing, we can start to decide whether he's the right man. Not before.

But I don't need to judge him on performance when he has his own team and squad as I already like the way smith wants his team to play football.


To me he's  the right man for the development side of things and building .
And the long game.

Have to say he has already been judged continuously in the job.

You and I, like many, have judged him too on his so called preferred playing style .

Also comments have helped reason to why the playing style isnt always being implemented in the team and squad he has picked.


If youre asking is he the right man in getting villa promotion?
Yes we will see about that over time
And that can only be judged on results and as you state a decent chance to put the squad together.

I can see that being 2 years from now which is ok and not ok.

Basically I'm wishing  in January 2020 competitive to the top 2 places in championship.
Though it could take longer
Another great post
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: jwarry on January 15, 2019, 06:55:17 PM
Quote from: Allan C on January 15, 2019, 04:59:52 PM
Quote from: The Edge on January 15, 2019, 04:03:04 PM
Quote from: SamTheMouse on January 15, 2019, 03:11:32 PM
Give Smith a couple of transfer windows before judging him.

He has a preferred style of play which involves playing it out from the back and retaining possession, but the only defender capable of playing a pass is injured and it's made a big difference.

Once he's had a decent chance to put together a squad of his own choosing, we can start to decide whether he's the right man. Not before.
Re: the point about Deano  wanting us to play out from the back is we don't have the players. On Saturday Whelan received the ball about 25 yards out. Under no pressure he trod on it then stumbled and their player nicked it. Whelan gave chase and gave away a pen. I don't blame Deano I blame the guy who filled our squad with journey men like Whelan and players who he picked up from Barnsley and Brentford. Deano has little choice but to try and impose his brand of football onto players who are just not capable. He will get it right when he can recruit the right players. His time will come. Our time will come. The setbacks and the utter rubbish we've been subjected to for a number of years will make it all the more enjoyable when it does. Keep he faith.
Correct 100 %

Indeed, and if anybody watched the recent stiffs game vs Man U you could see the kids are embracing it better than the so called first teamers!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villa75 on January 15, 2019, 09:42:02 PM
So, the manager has one defined style of play, and imposes this on players he knows are not capable of playing it? How's that likely to turn out?

Not only that. When we're losing, against a shit Wigan side, he decides to bring on the very player least likely to ever be able to play 'his way'?

And that's good management?

I call it not having a plan B.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nunkin1965 on January 15, 2019, 10:10:30 PM
I've plenty of faith in the guy. I want him to have time to try and turn around years of dreadful appointments and decision making.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on January 15, 2019, 10:45:43 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on January 15, 2019, 09:42:02 PM
So, the manager has one defined style of play, and imposes this on players he knows are not capable of playing it? How's that likely to turn out?

Not only that. When we're losing, against a shit Wigan side, he decides to bring on the very player least likely to ever be able to play 'his way'?

And that's good management?

I call it not having a plan B.

I call it not having a plan B because there is no plan B available as he has inherited a load of shite and we can't afford to buy our way out of it.  Yes, it was a shit decision, but Whelan is all he has at the moment.  Other than Grealish and McGinn, we have no other capable midfielder, not one.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villa75 on January 16, 2019, 06:53:33 AM
You're calling Whelan "capable"? Capable of what, when we're 1-0 down!?

I'm still hopeful that Smith will turn out to be a half decent manager at this level but, come on, some of his early decision making, and some of our performances have been worrying, to say the least.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sid1964 on January 16, 2019, 06:57:11 AM
Arnie Scharwzenegger was saying the below at a trade conference - so maybe Dean Smith has taken this on board!

If you have a "Plan B", it means you're willing to accept failure in "Plan A". -  you should never have a plan B
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on January 16, 2019, 07:37:36 AM
Did anyone catch the Man City Amazon documentary where Pep was talking about ‘plan B’?

It made a lot of sense, at least to me.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on January 16, 2019, 08:06:38 AM
That refusal by Arnold Schwartzenegger to accept the concept of alternative attitudes betrays a big clue to his teutonic ancestry.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Pvb1968 on January 16, 2019, 08:22:05 AM
Quote from: brian green on January 16, 2019, 08:06:38 AM
That refusal by Arnold Schwartzenegger to accept the concept of alternative attitudes betrays a big clue to his teutonic ancestry.
One of the best replies I have ever read. 👏👏
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on January 16, 2019, 08:58:54 AM
Quote from: Villa75 on January 15, 2019, 09:42:02 PM
So, the manager has one defined style of play, and imposes this on players he knows are not capable of playing it? How's that likely to turn out?

Not only that. When we're losing, against a shit Wigan side, he decides to bring on the very player least likely to ever be able to play 'his way'?

And that's good management?

I call it not having a plan B.
Dean Smith has been brought in to make us a better and more attractive team to watch. To get us promoted asap playing an attractive brand of football. His style is to play attacking fluid football and we were all thrilled when we battered Derby, Middlesboro & WBA and who can forget the 5-5 v forest? Intoxicating stuff. He will plough on regardless until we have the team built in his image. He's implementing it come what may. Doubting him already and questioning whether he has a "plan b" is playing up to our "fickle" reputation. Admittedy mistakes are being made but I can forgive him as he is desperately trying to polish the turd of a squad that Steve Bruce left him with. The bigger picture is full houses at Villa Park watching us playing with style and panache and marching back into the Premier league. Rome wasn't built in a day though was it?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on January 16, 2019, 09:03:02 AM
Quote from: Nunkin1965 on January 15, 2019, 10:10:30 PM
I've plenty of faith in the guy. I want him to have time to try and turn around years of dreadful appointments and decision making.
This.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: DrGonzo on January 16, 2019, 10:15:59 AM
FFS the guy has been dealt a crock of shit, after years of mismanagement and terrible transfer policy.  Half a transfer window to begin one of the biggest rebuilding jobs since Leeds disappeared in a puff of over ambition is not sufficent time.  We all want the club to be succesful, jumping on the manager as soon as times become tough is  (often justifiably I admit) part of the reason we are up the Swannee without a whistle as it is.  As to style DS must coach his way with all the numpties for the sake of those that will be part of his plans going forward.  Let's see where we stand this time next year.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villa75 on January 16, 2019, 10:22:04 AM
"turd of a squad"?

Not long ago, many on here were calling it "the best in the division" along with others saying "a better manager than Bruce would have us promoted".

Also, this "turd" was producing some great performances not long ago, thanks to the new manager. The fact they have recently produced some diabolical performances is also down to the same guy.

Smith needs to sort it out, and soon. The owners may indicate they are happy to stay in the division for the foreseeable, and even mean it, but I'm pretty sure the novelty of that idea will run out all too soon for the majority of the fans.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villa75 on January 16, 2019, 10:28:39 AM
Some might say, we're "up the Swannee without a whistle"  ;D because we keep employing managers who are not up to the job.

I sincerely hope Smith is not one of those. I'm hoping for a good performance and result Saturday, and an end to all of the excuses for turgid displays.

I repeat. This squad has played some great football, and impressive results. The manager has to show began do that again, in a regular basis.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on January 16, 2019, 10:38:17 AM
The manager also has to have the opportunity to improve the quality and balance of the squad.

The deficiencies have been there all season. As bad as Saturday was, Sheffield United rings in the ears where we could have lost 7 or 8 and they eased off and felt sorry for us. There's been equally lamentable performances elsewhere.

We're very weak at full back, we have been weak in goal although the new keeper looks a lot better and but for him, we'd have been thumped by Swansea and Wigan. We're devoid any midfield cover for the defence and two injuries have been disastrous for a style of play that the manager was able to ring out for 6 or 7 game period.

We need to stop the slump we've been on post-Albion. A win Saturday would be more than welcome,especially with two of the bottom 3 to come. Although worth bearing in mind we took 2 points form the corresponding fixtures with the squad under Bruce.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: stuart445 on January 16, 2019, 10:49:44 AM
Quote from: The Edge on January 16, 2019, 08:58:54 AM
Quote from: Villa75 on January 15, 2019, 09:42:02 PM
So, the manager has one defined style of play, and imposes this on players he knows are not capable of playing it? How's that likely to turn out?

Not only that. When we're losing, against a shit Wigan side, he decides to bring on the very player least likely to ever be able to play 'his way'?

And that's good management?

I call it not having a plan B.
Dean Smith has been brought in to make us a better and more attractive team to watch. To get us promoted asap playing an attractive brand of football. His style is to play attacking fluid football and we were all thrilled when we battered Derby, Middlesboro & WBA and who can forget the 5-5 v forest? Intoxicating stuff. He will plough on regardless until we have the team built in his image. He's implementing it come what may. Doubting him already and questioning whether he has a "plan b" is playing up to our "fickle" reputation. Admittedy mistakes are being made but I can forgive him as he is desperately trying to polish the turd of a squad that Steve Bruce left him with. The bigger picture is full houses at Villa Park watching us playing with style and panache and marching back into the Premier league. Rome wasn't built in a day though was it?

You mean a squad that Smith has said is the best he's managed.  Also a squad many of the Bruce haters were saying should be perofming better and that any manager would be able to get performing better.

Howcome now we are performing worse than we were under Bruce it's all Bruce left a shit squad etc... Which is the total opposite to what they were saying when Bruce was here.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chinchilla Bathhouse on January 16, 2019, 11:01:30 AM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 16, 2019, 10:49:44 AM
Quote from: The Edge on January 16, 2019, 08:58:54 AM
Quote from: Villa75 on January 15, 2019, 09:42:02 PM
So, the manager has one defined style of play, and imposes this on players he knows are not capable of playing it? How's that likely to turn out?

Not only that. When we're losing, against a shit Wigan side, he decides to bring on the very player least likely to ever be able to play 'his way'?

And that's good management?

I call it not having a plan B.
Dean Smith has been brought in to make us a better and more attractive team to watch. To get us promoted asap playing an attractive brand of football. His style is to play attacking fluid football and we were all thrilled when we battered Derby, Middlesboro & WBA and who can forget the 5-5 v forest? Intoxicating stuff. He will plough on regardless until we have the team built in his image. He's implementing it come what may. Doubting him already and questioning whether he has a "plan b" is playing up to our "fickle" reputation. Admittedy mistakes are being made but I can forgive him as he is desperately trying to polish the turd of a squad that Steve Bruce left him with. The bigger picture is full houses at Villa Park watching us playing with style and panache and marching back into the Premier league. Rome wasn't built in a day though was it?

You mean a squad that Smith has said is the best he's managed.  Also a squad many of the Bruce haters were saying should be perofming better and that any manager would be able to get performing better.

Howcome now we are performing worse than we were under Bruce it's all Bruce left a shit squad etc... Which is the total opposite to what they were saying when Bruce was here.

Rubbish, from August to October this forum was full of people saying what a shit and unbalanced squad Bruce had built. And he had. That's why we started the season badly and that's why he was binned. This is what he left us with.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on January 16, 2019, 11:12:28 AM
Agree.  Bruce only made it to the current season because the club was in such turmoil over threatened liquidation and ownership  change it was agreed, correctly, that there were even more pressing priorities than finding a new manager.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on January 16, 2019, 11:17:24 AM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 16, 2019, 10:49:44 AM
Quote from: The Edge on January 16, 2019, 08:58:54 AM
Quote from: Villa75 on January 15, 2019, 09:42:02 PM
So, the manager has one defined style of play, and imposes this on players he knows are not capable of playing it? How's that likely to turn out?

Not only that. When we're losing, against a shit Wigan side, he decides to bring on the very player least likely to ever be able to play 'his way'?

And that's good management?

I call it not having a plan B.
Dean Smith has been brought in to make us a better and more attractive team to watch. To get us promoted asap playing an attractive brand of football. His style is to play attacking fluid football and we were all thrilled when we battered Derby, Middlesboro & WBA and who can forget the 5-5 v forest? Intoxicating stuff. He will plough on regardless until we have the team built in his image. He's implementing it come what may. Doubting him already and questioning whether he has a "plan b" is playing up to our "fickle" reputation. Admittedy mistakes are being made but I can forgive him as he is desperately trying to polish the turd of a squad that Steve Bruce left him with. The bigger picture is full houses at Villa Park watching us playing with style and panache and marching back into the Premier league. Rome wasn't built in a day though was it?

You mean a squad that Smith has said is the best he's managed.  Also a squad many of the Bruce haters were saying should be perofming better and that any manager would be able to get performing better.

Howcome now we are performing worse than we were under Bruce it's all Bruce left a shit squad etc... Which is the total opposite to what they were saying when Bruce was here.
What do you expect Dean Smith to say? Would you expect him to start his new job by slagging off the players? It's Brucies squad however you look at it. He left us with a shocking defence including 3 right backs, no centre half cover, a crap left back and piss poor cover in the goalkeeping position. An ageing midfield that includes a totally ineffective Hourihane and a geriatric pair in Whelan and Jedinack. So yeah I'd call that a turd of a squad that Bruce left us which Deano has had 3 fkn months to work with and half a transfer window to sort it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on January 16, 2019, 11:23:00 AM
We have a squad of 2 halves:

The attacking half with Grealish, Tammy, Kodjia, Mcginn, Bolasie, Adomah and El Ghazi is probably the most potent attack in the league, the number of chances we create, the number of goals we've scored and the way we play when they're all fit and 'ticking' is proof of that.

The defence is a liability, 1 left back who is utter shite, a goalkeeper who looked utterly devoid of confidence in himself or the defence in front of him, 2 senior right backs who make 1-2 glaring defensive mistakes every game, a centre back who has spent most of the season playing on the wrong side and looking lost, previously a centre mid with no mobility playing there because he could head a ball. I could go on. That defence is relegation battle standard.

Put the 2 together and you have a mid-table side that can blow teams away but can also be completely over run by teams who target our fullbacks and attack with pace. Smith needs time to get players in to the defence and get them formed into a unit, if he can do that then the attack will drag us into the playoffs. A left back worthy of the shirt and defensive midfielder with pace and strength but who can also pass and dictate play. Get those 2 right and we'll look a very different team once they're settled in.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: stuart445 on January 16, 2019, 11:27:03 AM
Quote from: The Edge on January 16, 2019, 11:17:24 AM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 16, 2019, 10:49:44 AM
Quote from: The Edge on January 16, 2019, 08:58:54 AM
Quote from: Villa75 on January 15, 2019, 09:42:02 PM
So, the manager has one defined style of play, and imposes this on players he knows are not capable of playing it? How's that likely to turn out?

Not only that. When we're losing, against a shit Wigan side, he decides to bring on the very player least likely to ever be able to play 'his way'?

And that's good management?

I call it not having a plan B.
Dean Smith has been brought in to make us a better and more attractive team to watch. To get us promoted asap playing an attractive brand of football. His style is to play attacking fluid football and we were all thrilled when we battered Derby, Middlesboro & WBA and who can forget the 5-5 v forest? Intoxicating stuff. He will plough on regardless until we have the team built in his image. He's implementing it come what may. Doubting him already and questioning whether he has a "plan b" is playing up to our "fickle" reputation. Admittedy mistakes are being made but I can forgive him as he is desperately trying to polish the turd of a squad that Steve Bruce left him with. The bigger picture is full houses at Villa Park watching us playing with style and panache and marching back into the Premier league. Rome wasn't built in a day though was it?

You mean a squad that Smith has said is the best he's managed.  Also a squad many of the Bruce haters were saying should be perofming better and that any manager would be able to get performing better.

Howcome now we are performing worse than we were under Bruce it's all Bruce left a shit squad etc... Which is the total opposite to what they were saying when Bruce was here.
What do you expect Dean Smith to say? Would you expect him to start his new job by slagging off the players? It's Brucies squad however you look at it. He left us with a shocking defence including 3 right backs, no centre half cover, a crap left back and poss poor cover in the goalkeeping position. An ageing midfield that includes a totally ineffective Hourihane and a geriatric pair in Whelan and Jedinack. So yeah I'd call that a turd of a squad that Bruce left us which Deano has had 3 fkn months to work with and half a transfer window to sort it.

Nice bit of history changing there but the main narrative when Bruce was in charge was that this was the best squad in the championship who any other club would love to have and that any manager would be able to get better performance and results out of.

You can deny it all you want but you know that is what was being said.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on January 16, 2019, 11:36:04 AM
Quote from: Villa75 on January 16, 2019, 10:22:04 AM
"turd of a squad"?

Not long ago, many on here were calling it "the best in the division" along with others saying "a better manager than Bruce would have us promoted".

Also, this "turd" was producing some great performances not long ago, thanks to the new manager. The fact they have recently produced some diabolical performances is also down to the same guy.

Smith needs to sort it out, and soon. The owners may indicate they are happy to stay in the division for the foreseeable, and even mean it, but I'm pretty sure the novelty of that idea will run out all too soon for the majority of the fans.
Who said our squad was the best in the division? Not me that's for sure. What many have said, including myself, is that we have the best attack/midfield in this division but that's only half the team. The back 5 is woefully unbalanced. We've conceded more goals than Rotherham ffs.
 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chinchilla Bathhouse on January 16, 2019, 11:37:12 AM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 16, 2019, 11:27:03 AM
Quote from: The Edge on January 16, 2019, 11:17:24 AM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 16, 2019, 10:49:44 AM
Quote from: The Edge on January 16, 2019, 08:58:54 AM
Quote from: Villa75 on January 15, 2019, 09:42:02 PM
So, the manager has one defined style of play, and imposes this on players he knows are not capable of playing it? How's that likely to turn out?

Not only that. When we're losing, against a shit Wigan side, he decides to bring on the very player least likely to ever be able to play 'his way'?

And that's good management?

I call it not having a plan B.
Dean Smith has been brought in to make us a better and more attractive team to watch. To get us promoted asap playing an attractive brand of football. His style is to play attacking fluid football and we were all thrilled when we battered Derby, Middlesboro & WBA and who can forget the 5-5 v forest? Intoxicating stuff. He will plough on regardless until we have the team built in his image. He's implementing it come what may. Doubting him already and questioning whether he has a "plan b" is playing up to our "fickle" reputation. Admittedy mistakes are being made but I can forgive him as he is desperately trying to polish the turd of a squad that Steve Bruce left him with. The bigger picture is full houses at Villa Park watching us playing with style and panache and marching back into the Premier league. Rome wasn't built in a day though was it?

You mean a squad that Smith has said is the best he's managed.  Also a squad many of the Bruce haters were saying should be perofming better and that any manager would be able to get performing better.

Howcome now we are performing worse than we were under Bruce it's all Bruce left a shit squad etc... Which is the total opposite to what they were saying when Bruce was here.
What do you expect Dean Smith to say? Would you expect him to start his new job by slagging off the players? It's Brucies squad however you look at it. He left us with a shocking defence including 3 right backs, no centre half cover, a crap left back and poss poor cover in the goalkeeping position. An ageing midfield that includes a totally ineffective Hourihane and a geriatric pair in Whelan and Jedinack. So yeah I'd call that a turd of a squad that Bruce left us which Deano has had 3 fkn months to work with and half a transfer window to sort it.

Nice bit of history changing there but the main narrative when Bruce was in charge was that this was the best squad in the championship who any other club would love to have and that any manager would be able to get better performance and results out of.

You can deny it all you want but you know that is what was being said.

That was with a squad containing Terry, Grabban and Snodgrass - ie. last season. Not this season and this squad - ie. the one Bruce left behind, which is what I thought was being discussed here. Try to keep up Stuart.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on January 16, 2019, 11:41:23 AM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 16, 2019, 11:27:03 AM
Nice bit of history changing there but the main narrative when Bruce was in charge was that this was the best squad in the championship who any other club would love to have and that any manager would be able to get better performance and results out of.

You can deny it all you want but you know that is what was being said.

Stop making shit up, almost everyone complained about the state our defence was left in, a huge amount of the criticism of Bruce in September/October was directly related to that. There were plenty of people who thought he was dragging our attacking play down a level and the performances in the first couple of months under Smith proved that to be the case, things have gone off the rails in the last 5-6 games, everyone knows that but the attacking play has quite clearly been better under Smith, denying that is a ridiculous position to take.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on January 16, 2019, 11:44:51 AM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 16, 2019, 11:27:03 AM
Quote from: The Edge on January 16, 2019, 11:17:24 AM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 16, 2019, 10:49:44 AM
Quote from: The Edge on January 16, 2019, 08:58:54 AM
Quote from: Villa75 on January 15, 2019, 09:42:02 PM
So, the manager has one defined style of play, and imposes this on players he knows are not capable of playing it? How's that likely to turn out?

Not only that. When we're losing, against a shit Wigan side, he decides to bring on the very player least likely to ever be able to play 'his way'?

And that's good management?

I call it not having a plan B.
Dean Smith has been brought in to make us a better and more attractive team to watch. To get us promoted asap playing an attractive brand of football. His style is to play attacking fluid football and we were all thrilled when we battered Derby, Middlesboro & WBA and who can forget the 5-5 v forest? Intoxicating stuff. He will plough on regardless until we have the team built in his image. He's implementing it come what may. Doubting him already and questioning whether he has a "plan b" is playing up to our "fickle" reputation. Admittedy mistakes are being made but I can forgive him as he is desperately trying to polish the turd of a squad that Steve Bruce left him with. The bigger picture is full houses at Villa Park watching us playing with style and panache and marching back into the Premier league. Rome wasn't built in a day though was it?

You mean a squad that Smith has said is the best he's managed.  Also a squad many of the Bruce haters were saying should be perofming better and that any manager would be able to get performing better.

Howcome now we are performing worse than we were under Bruce it's all Bruce left a shit squad etc... Which is the total opposite to what they were saying when Bruce was here.
What do you expect Dean Smith to say? Would you expect him to start his new job by slagging off the players? It's Brucies squad however you look at it. He left us with a shocking defence including 3 right backs, no centre half cover, a crap left back and poss poor cover in the goalkeeping position. An ageing midfield that includes a totally ineffective Hourihane and a geriatric pair in Whelan and Jedinack. So yeah I'd call that a turd of a squad that Bruce left us which Deano has had 3 fkn months to work with and half a transfer window to sort it.

Nice bit of history changing there but the main narrative when Bruce was in charge was that this was the best squad in the championship who any other club would love to have and that any manager would be able to get better performance and results out of.

You can deny it all you want but you know that is what was being said.
History changing? Which bit? Also when Bruce was in charge the squad included Johnson, Terry, Snodgrass and Grabban. That's not the squad he left us with. Without Johnson and Terry our defence is very poor by comparison and completely unbalanced which Bruce did NOTHING to rectify.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on January 16, 2019, 11:49:51 AM
It's definately Steve posting in disguise.

The 'stuart' bit is a thin disguise for 'steve', and betrays his signature lack of imagination.

The '445' is clealy his waist size.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chinchilla Bathhouse on January 16, 2019, 11:49:54 AM
Quote from: paul_e on January 16, 2019, 11:41:23 AM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 16, 2019, 11:27:03 AM
Nice bit of history changing there but the main narrative when Bruce was in charge was that this was the best squad in the championship who any other club would love to have and that any manager would be able to get better performance and results out of.

You can deny it all you want but you know that is what was being said.

Stop making shit up, almost everyone complained about the state our defence was left in, a huge amount of the criticism of Bruce in September/October was directly related to that. There were plenty of people who thought he was dragging our attacking play down a level and the performances in the first couple of months under Smith proved that to be the case, things have gone off the rails in the last 5-6 games, everyone knows that but the attacking play has quite clearly been better under Smith, denying that is a ridiculous position to take.

But that's Stuart's favoured position. He's like Claude Makelele, he plays it so well it's synonymous with him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villa75 on January 16, 2019, 11:57:37 AM
http://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?topic=59280.0

I could post numerous links, but go read the above for how this "turd of a squad" was predicted to do recently.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: stuart445 on January 16, 2019, 11:58:29 AM
Quote from: Chinchilla Bathhouse on January 16, 2019, 11:37:12 AM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 16, 2019, 11:27:03 AM
Quote from: The Edge on January 16, 2019, 11:17:24 AM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 16, 2019, 10:49:44 AM
Quote from: The Edge on January 16, 2019, 08:58:54 AM
Quote from: Villa75 on January 15, 2019, 09:42:02 PM
So, the manager has one defined style of play, and imposes this on players he knows are not capable of playing it? How's that likely to turn out?

Not only that. When we're losing, against a shit Wigan side, he decides to bring on the very player least likely to ever be able to play 'his way'?

And that's good management?

I call it not having a plan B.
Dean Smith has been brought in to make us a better and more attractive team to watch. To get us promoted asap playing an attractive brand of football. His style is to play attacking fluid football and we were all thrilled when we battered Derby, Middlesboro & WBA and who can forget the 5-5 v forest? Intoxicating stuff. He will plough on regardless until we have the team built in his image. He's implementing it come what may. Doubting him already and questioning whether he has a "plan b" is playing up to our "fickle" reputation. Admittedy mistakes are being made but I can forgive him as he is desperately trying to polish the turd of a squad that Steve Bruce left him with. The bigger picture is full houses at Villa Park watching us playing with style and panache and marching back into the Premier league. Rome wasn't built in a day though was it?

You mean a squad that Smith has said is the best he's managed.  Also a squad many of the Bruce haters were saying should be perofming better and that any manager would be able to get performing better.

Howcome now we are performing worse than we were under Bruce it's all Bruce left a shit squad etc... Which is the total opposite to what they were saying when Bruce was here.
What do you expect Dean Smith to say? Would you expect him to start his new job by slagging off the players? It's Brucies squad however you look at it. He left us with a shocking defence including 3 right backs, no centre half cover, a crap left back and poss poor cover in the goalkeeping position. An ageing midfield that includes a totally ineffective Hourihane and a geriatric pair in Whelan and Jedinack. So yeah I'd call that a turd of a squad that Bruce left us which Deano has had 3 fkn months to work with and half a transfer window to sort it.

Nice bit of history changing there but the main narrative when Bruce was in charge was that this was the best squad in the championship who any other club would love to have and that any manager would be able to get better performance and results out of.

You can deny it all you want but you know that is what was being said.

That was with a squad containing Terry, Grabban and Snodgrass - ie. last season. Not this season and this squad - ie. the one Bruce left behind, which is what I thought was being discussed here. Try to keep up Stuart.

Nope it was being said this season as well. Keep trying to change history though.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villa75 on January 16, 2019, 12:03:33 PM
I would argue against Tammy Abraham being a step down on Grabban, as well.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: stuart445 on January 16, 2019, 12:05:30 PM
Quote from: paul_e on January 16, 2019, 11:41:23 AM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 16, 2019, 11:27:03 AM
Nice bit of history changing there but the main narrative when Bruce was in charge was that this was the best squad in the championship who any other club would love to have and that any manager would be able to get better performance and results out of.

You can deny it all you want but you know that is what was being said.

Stop making shit up, almost everyone complained about the state our defence was left in, a huge amount of the criticism of Bruce in September/October was directly related to that. There were plenty of people who thought he was dragging our attacking play down a level and the performances in the first couple of months under Smith proved that to be the case, things have gone off the rails in the last 5-6 games, everyone knows that but the attacking play has quite clearly been better under Smith, denying that is a ridiculous position to take.

Wondered when the hypocrite would show up. It's been getting worse and worse under Smith now and Wigan was bad enough that anyone should be scared. It's the worst performance I've ever seen.

But Paul you keep going with you Bruce = evil and Smith = unquestionable. Paul let's not ignore the fact that under Bruce we scored in every game this season it's only under Smith we have failed to score. But hey say I'm talking shit because it doesn't fit your narrative.

In fact I'm getting sick of you hypocrisy so from now on I don't care about the shit you spout. Like saying it's too early to judge Smith but then admitting you were having a pop about Bruce right from the start, if that's not being a hypocrite then I don't know what is.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on January 16, 2019, 12:09:06 PM
Quote from: LeeB on January 16, 2019, 11:49:51 AM
It's definately Steve posting in disguise.

The 'stuart' bit is a thin disguise for 'steve', and betrays his signature lack of imagination.

The '445' is clealy his waist size.
😂😂
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on January 16, 2019, 12:14:48 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on January 16, 2019, 11:57:37 AM
http://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?topic=59280.0

I could post numerous links, but go read the above for how this "turd of a squad" was predicted to do recently.
Ok I'll change my statement to "turd of a defence" Better?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villa75 on January 16, 2019, 12:21:17 PM
Quote from: The Edge on January 16, 2019, 12:14:48 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on January 16, 2019, 11:57:37 AM
http://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?topic=59280.0

I could post numerous links, but go read the above for how this "turd of a squad" was predicted to do recently.
Ok I'll change my statement to "turd of a defence" Better?

Not really. That "turd of a defence" still existed when these predictions were made.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nunkin1965 on January 16, 2019, 12:24:27 PM
During the whole time of our tenure in this league (apart from the first bit this season) we’ve probably had the best squad. I don’t think that’s debatable but best team? No chance. Not by a mile.
And that’s what I hope Dean Smith does. His way with his methods.
He’s managing a squad half of which he wouldn’t touch if he had the choice. So bad has been the decision making and spewing out of stupid contracts to all and sundry.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on January 16, 2019, 12:26:13 PM
Wigan wasn't the worst performance I'd seen this season. But it was up there with my top 5. Sheffield United was utterly humiliating.

Chelsea and Doncaster and Liverpool at home say hello too. But whatever.

We're on a bad run for sure, but that's squad deficiencies exposed and that's primarily the responsibility of the man who threw it together. Smith can get a tune out of them when they're fit, as going forwards we can be electric. But we've been diabolical defensively all season.

If we hadn't, Bruce would still be here. But he was getting desperate results.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on January 16, 2019, 12:26:29 PM
Quote from: sid1964 on January 16, 2019, 06:57:11 AM
Arnie Scharwzenegger was saying the below at a trade conference - so maybe Dean Smith has taken this on board!

If you have a "Plan B", it means you're willing to accept failure in "Plan A". -  you should never have a plan B

Hes a cyborg terminator why would he have a plan B?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on January 16, 2019, 12:31:35 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on January 16, 2019, 12:21:17 PM
Quote from: The Edge on January 16, 2019, 12:14:48 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on January 16, 2019, 11:57:37 AM
http://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?topic=59280.0

I could post numerous links, but go read the above for how this "turd of a squad" was predicted to do recently.
Ok I'll change my statement to "turd of a defence" Better?

Not really. That "turd of a defence" still existed when these predictions were made.
So what? Who gives a shit about "predictions"? They were wrong because of the disastrous defence Bruce left us with. Out of the bottom three 2 teams- Bolton & Reading have conceded less goals than us!!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on January 16, 2019, 12:38:30 PM
I'm really confused as to what being argued here?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sid1964 on January 16, 2019, 12:40:55 PM
Give Smith a chance he has only been a few weeks - time to judge him will be from the start of next season (i don't think we will make the play off this season)

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villa75 on January 16, 2019, 12:47:00 PM
Quote from: Ads on January 16, 2019, 12:38:30 PM
I'm really confused as to what being argued here?

I think it's.....

The decent performances we're all down to the brilliance of Smith, despite a "turd of a squad".

The recent diabolical performances are nothing to do with Smith, but all down to the "turd of a squad".
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on January 16, 2019, 12:53:33 PM
Right. Whose argued those points then?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villa75 on January 16, 2019, 12:57:08 PM
Quote from: Ads on January 16, 2019, 12:53:33 PM
Right. Whose argued those points then?

That's the general gist, to me.

How do you see it?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on January 16, 2019, 12:57:29 PM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 16, 2019, 12:05:30 PM
Quote from: paul_e on January 16, 2019, 11:41:23 AM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 16, 2019, 11:27:03 AM
Nice bit of history changing there but the main narrative when Bruce was in charge was that this was the best squad in the championship who any other club would love to have and that any manager would be able to get better performance and results out of.

You can deny it all you want but you know that is what was being said.

Stop making shit up, almost everyone complained about the state our defence was left in, a huge amount of the criticism of Bruce in September/October was directly related to that. There were plenty of people who thought he was dragging our attacking play down a level and the performances in the first couple of months under Smith proved that to be the case, things have gone off the rails in the last 5-6 games, everyone knows that but the attacking play has quite clearly been better under Smith, denying that is a ridiculous position to take.

Wondered when the hypocrite would show up. It's been getting worse and worse under Smith now and Wigan was bad enough that anyone should be scared. It's the worst performance I've ever seen.

But Paul you keep going with you Bruce = evil and Smith = unquestionable. Paul let's not ignore the fact that under Bruce we scored in every game this season it's only under Smith we have failed to score. But hey say I'm talking shit because it doesn't fit your narrative.

In fact I'm getting sick of you hypocrisy so from now on I don't care about the shit you spout. Like saying it's too early to judge Smith but then admitting you were having a pop about Bruce right from the start, if that's not being a hypocrite then I don't know what is.

Worst performance you've ever seen - hyperbole.

Smith = unquestionable - evidence please.

Bruce = evil - evidence here as well actually, you'll find me calling him lazy, unimaginative and shit but not evil so I call hyperbole again.

Attacking play, let's break it down a little shall we ...
Bruce played 11, scored 19, 1.73 per game
Smith played 15, scored 29, 1.93 per game

Oh look I'm right and you're wrong, what a surprise.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hypocrite (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hypocrite)

Quote
2 : a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings

Quote from: paul_e on January 14, 2019, 04:18:35 PM
I'll hold my hand up to that but I'm going to caveat it slightly. If we have a manager who is a promotion expert and has been given the job on the back of that title then, for me, he delivers promotion or he should be sacked. If we have a manager who is a coach that improves players and gets teams playing exciting attacking football then I'm willing to give him more time to see if he can do that because even if the results aren't quite there I have hope that the work on the training ground i laying the groundwork for better things, even if that ultimately comes from another manager.

I think that's fairly clear that I'm not a hypocrite so you can give that shit a rest now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on January 16, 2019, 01:01:23 PM
I don't know, lots of people have been picking at things Smith has got wrong so I'm not sure this concept of infalability has come from.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on January 16, 2019, 01:03:58 PM
Quote from: Ads on January 16, 2019, 01:01:23 PM
I don't know, lots of people have been picking at things Smith has got wrong so I'm not sure this concept of infalability has come from.

it's a fantasy made up by stuart so he can insult people that didn't like Bruce.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on January 16, 2019, 01:16:21 PM
Quote from: paul_e on January 16, 2019, 01:03:58 PM
Quote from: Ads on January 16, 2019, 01:01:23 PM
I don't know, lots of people have been picking at things Smith has got wrong so I'm not sure this concept of infalability has come from.

it's a fantasy made up by stuart so he can insult people that didn't like Bruce.

Coming from someone who once described engaging on here akin to talking to a room full of AD/HD children, that did make me smile.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on January 16, 2019, 01:17:02 PM
Quote from: Ads on January 16, 2019, 12:53:33 PM
Right. Whose argued those points then?
Partly me. I was trying to defend Smith after he was being called out for having no plan b. I pointed out that he was still working with Bruce's squad. I called it a turd of a squad. I've since offered to change that to a turd of a defence as I felt that was more accurate. My offer was rejected. Now we seem to have descended into a pro/anti Bruce debate.  Now it just feels like groundhog day.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on January 16, 2019, 01:19:56 PM
I haven't seen anybody state that Smith should be sacked, and I haven't seen anybody say that he's infallible.  Most people were pleased with the start he made, are a lot less pleased at the moment, but can see that he's got work to do, and needs time to right the problems in the squad.  Nothing too controversial in there, is there?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AV82EC on January 16, 2019, 01:23:03 PM
Quote from: Risso on January 16, 2019, 01:19:56 PM
I haven't seen anybody state that Smith should be sacked, and I haven't seen anybody say that he's infallible.  Most people were pleased with the start he made, are a lot less pleased at the moment, but can see that he's got work to do, and needs time to right the problems in the squad.  Nothing too controversial in there, is there?

Come on Risso it’s the internet, you get no prizes or likes for sensible opinions.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on January 16, 2019, 01:24:45 PM
I understand what Stuart is getting at but he just needs to sit back and see what develops. Smith took the plaudits a few weeks ago, but he needs to fix the problems now but fuck me, it's got to improve from the Wigan performance.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on January 16, 2019, 01:26:42 PM
Quote from: Clampy on January 16, 2019, 01:24:45 PM
I understand what Stuart is getting at but he just needs to sit back and see what develops. Smith took the plaudits a few weeks ago, but he needs to fix the problems now but fuck me, it's got to improve from the Wigan performance.

It's hard to imagine that it could be worse.  Hopefully it's given the players, the manager and the owners a timely kick up the backside.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on January 16, 2019, 01:51:38 PM
The difference between Bruce and Smith is for me is simple

we all know what Bruce does, he's had promotions and success but he does the same thing everywhere he goes, he will do exactly the same at Sheff Wed, same as Lambert, Pulis, Allardyce will do exactly the same wherever they happen to be
some people are happy with that, it's tried and tested, sometimes it works good enough to get promotion, sometimes it doesn't and becomes difficult to watch
there was never a point when I wanted Bruce out because I never wanted him in, I don't like the football he plays and never will, same goes for the other names mentioned above

with Smith we just don't know what will happen,we don't know what to expect,  we don't know if he can step up and bring his style of play and build a team to deliver success
so this brings hope
He might end up like most of the British type managers or he might end up like Eddie Howe, we just don't know yet

but that the difference
we knew what we were getting with Bruce we don't with Smith and that gives us the chance to hope for greater things and why we must keep backing him
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on January 16, 2019, 01:55:52 PM
Worth noting Wagnar took over with Huddersfield in 19th, finished in 19th and then went up.

Some times radical change takes time. Hopefully we recover quicker than they did from Bruce signing expensive shite.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on January 16, 2019, 02:10:01 PM
To support your case john, I was not at all surprised that Fat Sam ruled himself out of the at Huddersfield job on the one, single, unvarnished reason that he could not keep them in the Premiership.   Not a word about improving the team, developing them, playing football the loyal fans wanted to see, rebuilding for the future.  None of that.  I can't  save you.  End of.

Like having a potential son in law puke up the chance to marry your daughter because she might not give you any grandchildren.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Hookeysmith on January 16, 2019, 02:14:27 PM
Quote from: john e on January 16, 2019, 01:51:38 PM
The difference between Bruce and Smith is for me is simple

we all know what Bruce does, he's had promotions and success but he does the same thing everywhere he goes, he will do exactly the same at Sheff Wed, same as Lambert, Pulis, Allardyce will do exactly the same wherever they happen to be
some people are happy with that, it's tried and tested, sometimes it works good enough to get promotion, sometimes it doesn't and becomes difficult to watch
there was never a point when I wanted Bruce out because I never wanted him in, I don't like the football he plays and never will, same goes for the other names mentioned above

with Smith we just don't know what will happen,we don't know what to expect,  we don't know if he can step up and bring his style of play and build a team to deliver success
so this brings hope
He might end up like most of the British type managers or he might end up like Eddie Howe, we just don't know yet

but that the difference
we knew what we were getting with Bruce we don't with Smith and that gives us the chance to hope for greater things and why we must keep backing him

I agree with almost all of that but to me it comes down to football philosophy

As much as we were utter turd against Wigan we all know he set us up to win the game - glaringly either the players did not listen to him or are incapable of maintaining acceptable performances due to them in the main being not very good but on occasion playing above themselves. Think when Taylor came back in we all said "At least he is in the right position" and to be fair his performances were more than adequate as he obviously wanted to prove himself. Soon as he was the regular LB he reverted to type and showed what an awfully below average footballer he is. I think we have a few that fit that category.

This will take some time and a lot of clearing out
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on January 16, 2019, 02:19:12 PM
Quote from: Hookeysmith on January 16, 2019, 02:14:27 PM
Quote from: john e on January 16, 2019, 01:51:38 PM
The difference between Bruce and Smith is for me is simple

we all know what Bruce does, he's had promotions and success but he does the same thing everywhere he goes, he will do exactly the same at Sheff Wed, same as Lambert, Pulis, Allardyce will do exactly the same wherever they happen to be
some people are happy with that, it's tried and tested, sometimes it works good enough to get promotion, sometimes it doesn't and becomes difficult to watch
there was never a point when I wanted Bruce out because I never wanted him in, I don't like the football he plays and never will, same goes for the other names mentioned above

with Smith we just don't know what will happen,we don't know what to expect,  we don't know if he can step up and bring his style of play and build a team to deliver success
so this brings hope
He might end up like most of the British type managers or he might end up like Eddie Howe, we just don't know yet

but that the difference
we knew what we were getting with Bruce we don't with Smith and that gives us the chance to hope for greater things and why we must keep backing him

I agree with almost all of that but to me it comes down to football philosophy

As much as we were utter turd against Wigan we all know he set us up to win the game - glaringly either the players did not listen to him or are incapable of maintaining acceptable performances due to them in the main being not very good but on occasion playing above themselves. Think when Taylor came back in we all said "At least he is in the right position" and to be fair his performances were more than adequate as he obviously wanted to prove himself. Soon as he was the regular LB he reverted to type and showed what an awfully below average footballer he is. I think we have a few that fit that category.

This will take some time and a lot of clearing out

I think that's unfair about Taylor. He was doing ok until he went off injured against Sandwell and he's not been back long this time (wasn't the Cup game his first game back or was it Wigan)?). So i'm not sure it was down to him thinking he was first choice left back to be honest. He had a piss poor game at Wigan like nearly all of them did. That said, we do need an upgrade on him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on January 16, 2019, 02:38:48 PM
Quote from: Hookeysmith on January 16, 2019, 02:14:27 PM
Quote from: john e on January 16, 2019, 01:51:38 PM
The difference between Bruce and Smith is for me is simple

we all know what Bruce does, he's had promotions and success but he does the same thing everywhere he goes, he will do exactly the same at Sheff Wed, same as Lambert, Pulis, Allardyce will do exactly the same wherever they happen to be
some people are happy with that, it's tried and tested, sometimes it works good enough to get promotion, sometimes it doesn't and becomes difficult to watch
there was never a point when I wanted Bruce out because I never wanted him in, I don't like the football he plays and never will, same goes for the other names mentioned above

with Smith we just don't know what will happen,we don't know what to expect,  we don't know if he can step up and bring his style of play and build a team to deliver success
so this brings hope
He might end up like most of the British type managers or he might end up like Eddie Howe, we just don't know yet

but that the difference
we knew what we were getting with Bruce we don't with Smith and that gives us the chance to hope for greater things and why we must keep backing him

I agree with almost all of that but to me it comes down to football philosophy

As much as we were utter turd against Wigan we all know he set us up to win the game - glaringly either the players did not listen to him or are incapable of maintaining acceptable performances due to them in the main being not very good but on occasion playing above themselves. Think when Taylor came back in we all said "At least he is in the right position" and to be fair his performances were more than adequate as he obviously wanted to prove himself. Soon as he was the regular LB he reverted to type and showed what an awfully below average footballer he is. I think we have a few that fit that category.

This will take some time and a lot of clearing out

Lambert came with a reputation of playing good attacking football though, he had a football philosophy we thought we could buy into
he ended up becoming exactly the same as the other British dinosaurs

I just don't want Smith to go the same way, and the subs on Saturday were straight out of the Bruce/Lambert/Mcliesh book of tactics
it just worries me because we've been here before and I am buying into a new dawn and all that but the years of constant let downs have made me paranoid
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on January 16, 2019, 05:48:23 PM
Quote from: Newby on January 15, 2019, 10:45:43 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on January 15, 2019, 09:42:02 PM
So, the manager has one defined style of play, and imposes this on players he knows are not capable of playing it? How's that likely to turn out?

Not only that. When we're losing, against a shit Wigan side, he decides to bring on the very player least likely to ever be able to play 'his way'?

And that's good management?

I call it not having a plan B.

I call it not having a plan B because there is no plan B available as he has inherited a load of shite and we can't afford to buy our way out of it.  Yes, it was a shit decision, but Whelan is all he has at the moment.  Other than Grealish and McGinn, we have no other capable midfielder, not one.

No Plan B is a bit of a cop out though isn't it? Critical analysis of Smith's reign thus far should be welcomed. There are huge problems in the squad but how many of those Wigan players who make our team for example?
I'm wondering with his first two signings are we already preparing for next season. Hause in particular must be miles behind in terms of match fitness.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ROBBO on January 16, 2019, 06:16:14 PM
I was disappointed with Smiths substitutions on Saturday and that he failed to motivate the players at half time but my biggest worry is that if the pressure builds he will become more defensive. If he continues to play attacking football and sticks to his guns then he deserves to be backed.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on January 16, 2019, 06:27:32 PM
Quote from: sid1964 on January 16, 2019, 12:40:55 PM
Give Smith a chance he has only been a few weeks - time to judge him will be from the start of next season (i don't think we will make the play off this season)
All we are saying  is give Smith a chance. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 16, 2019, 06:39:55 PM
Quote from: john e on January 16, 2019, 02:38:48 PM
Quote from: Hookeysmith on January 16, 2019, 02:14:27 PM
Quote from: john e on January 16, 2019, 01:51:38 PM
The difference between Bruce and Smith is for me is simple

we all know what Bruce does, he's had promotions and success but he does the same thing everywhere he goes, he will do exactly the same at Sheff Wed, same as Lambert, Pulis, Allardyce will do exactly the same wherever they happen to be
some people are happy with that, it's tried and tested, sometimes it works good enough to get promotion, sometimes it doesn't and becomes difficult to watch
there was never a point when I wanted Bruce out because I never wanted him in, I don't like the football he plays and never will, same goes for the other names mentioned above

with Smith we just don't know what will happen,we don't know what to expect,  we don't know if he can step up and bring his style of play and build a team to deliver success
so this brings hope
He might end up like most of the British type managers or he might end up like Eddie Howe, we just don't know yet

but that the difference
we knew what we were getting with Bruce we don't with Smith and that gives us the chance to hope for greater things and why we must keep backing him

I agree with almost all of that but to me it comes down to football philosophy

As much as we were utter turd against Wigan we all know he set us up to win the game - glaringly either the players did not listen to him or are incapable of maintaining acceptable performances due to them in the main being not very good but on occasion playing above themselves. Think when Taylor came back in we all said "At least he is in the right position" and to be fair his performances were more than adequate as he obviously wanted to prove himself. Soon as he was the regular LB he reverted to type and showed what an awfully below average footballer he is. I think we have a few that fit that category.

This will take some time and a lot of clearing out

Lambert came with a reputation of playing good attacking football though, he had a football philosophy we thought we could buy into
he ended up becoming exactly the same as the other British dinosaurs

I just don't want Smith to go the same way, and the subs on Saturday were straight out of the Bruce/Lambert/Mcliesh book of tactics
it just worries me because we've been here before and I am buying into a new dawn and all that but the years of constant let downs have made me paranoid

There was a lot about what happened vs Wigan that caused great concern. Not least the subs. Good grief. For a manager who has promoted passing and pressure and attacking to throw on an untried, unfit CB and an aging dinosaur defensive midfielder to chase a game revealed to all of us he literally had run out of ideas. No different to TSM2 tossing on 200 strikers vs Bradford shouting charge as his tactical inspiration.

Right now Smith is being tactically outdone by opponents who know how abysmal we are at the back. We are being exposed and it is turning us into a team on the run not one that for a brief moment in time looked like dominating all comers.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on January 16, 2019, 07:32:03 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on January 16, 2019, 06:39:55 PM
Quote from: john e on January 16, 2019, 02:38:48 PM
Quote from: Hookeysmith on January 16, 2019, 02:14:27 PM
Quote from: john e on January 16, 2019, 01:51:38 PM
The difference between Bruce and Smith is for me is simple

we all know what Bruce does, he's had promotions and success but he does the same thing everywhere he goes, he will do exactly the same at Sheff Wed, same as Lambert, Pulis, Allardyce will do exactly the same wherever they happen to be
some people are happy with that, it's tried and tested, sometimes it works good enough to get promotion, sometimes it doesn't and becomes difficult to watch
there was never a point when I wanted Bruce out because I never wanted him in, I don't like the football he plays and never will, same goes for the other names mentioned above

with Smith we just don't know what will happen,we don't know what to expect,  we don't know if he can step up and bring his style of play and build a team to deliver success
so this brings hope
He might end up like most of the British type managers or he might end up like Eddie Howe, we just don't know yet

but that the difference
we knew what we were getting with Bruce we don't with Smith and that gives us the chance to hope for greater things and why we must keep backing him

I agree with almost all of that but to me it comes down to football philosophy

As much as we were utter turd against Wigan we all know he set us up to win the game - glaringly either the players did not listen to him or are incapable of maintaining acceptable performances due to them in the main being not very good but on occasion playing above themselves. Think when Taylor came back in we all said "At least he is in the right position" and to be fair his performances were more than adequate as he obviously wanted to prove himself. Soon as he was the regular LB he reverted to type and showed what an awfully below average footballer he is. I think we have a few that fit that category.

This will take some time and a lot of clearing out

Lambert came with a reputation of playing good attacking football though, he had a football philosophy we thought we could buy into
he ended up becoming exactly the same as the other British dinosaurs

I just don't want Smith to go the same way, and the subs on Saturday were straight out of the Bruce/Lambert/Mcliesh book of tactics
it just worries me because we've been here before and I am buying into a new dawn and all that but the years of constant let downs have made me paranoid

There was a lot about what happened vs Wigan that caused great concern. Not least the subs. Good grief. For a manager who has promoted passing and pressure and attacking to throw on an untried, unfit CB and an aging dinosaur defensive midfielder to chase a game revealed to all of us he literally had run out of ideas. No different to TSM2 tossing on 200 strikers vs Bradford shouting charge as his tactical inspiration.

Right now Smith is being tactically outdone by opponents who know how abysmal we are at the back. We are being exposed and it is turning us into a team on the run not one that for a brief moment in time looked like dominating all comers.
Is one way to look at it. The other way is it's got less to do Dean being tactically outdone and more to do with the quality of defenders he currently has at his disposal.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on January 16, 2019, 09:45:18 PM
Quote from: The Edge on January 16, 2019, 11:44:51 AM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 16, 2019, 11:27:03 AM
Quote from: The Edge on January 16, 2019, 11:17:24 AM
Quote from: stuart445 on January 16, 2019, 10:49:44 AM
Quote from: The Edge on January 16, 2019, 08:58:54 AM
Quote from: Villa75 on January 15, 2019, 09:42:02 PM
So, the manager has one defined style of play, and imposes this on players he knows are not capable of playing it? How's that likely to turn out?

Not only that. When we're losing, against a shit Wigan side, he decides to bring on the very player least likely to ever be able to play 'his way'?

And that's good management?

I call it not having a plan B.
Dean Smith has been brought in to make us a better and more attractive team to watch. To get us promoted asap playing an attractive brand of football. His style is to play attacking fluid football and we were all thrilled when we battered Derby, Middlesboro & WBA and who can forget the 5-5 v forest? Intoxicating stuff. He will plough on regardless until we have the team built in his image. He's implementing it come what may. Doubting him already and questioning whether he has a "plan b" is playing up to our "fickle" reputation. Admittedy mistakes are being made but I can forgive him as he is desperately trying to polish the turd of a squad that Steve Bruce left him with. The bigger picture is full houses at Villa Park watching us playing with style and panache and marching back into the Premier league. Rome wasn't built in a day though was it?

You mean a squad that Smith has said is the best he's managed.  Also a squad many of the Bruce haters were saying should be perofming better and that any manager would be able to get performing better.

Howcome now we are performing worse than we were under Bruce it's all Bruce left a shit squad etc... Which is the total opposite to what they were saying when Bruce was here.
What do you expect Dean Smith to say? Would you expect him to start his new job by slagging off the players? It's Brucies squad however you look at it. He left us with a shocking defence including 3 right backs, no centre half cover, a crap left back and poss poor cover in the goalkeeping position. An ageing midfield that includes a totally ineffective Hourihane and a geriatric pair in Whelan and Jedinack. So yeah I'd call that a turd of a squad that Bruce left us which Deano has had 3 fkn months to work with and half a transfer window to sort it.

Nice bit of history changing there but the main narrative when Bruce was in charge was that this was the best squad in the championship who any other club would love to have and that any manager would be able to get better performance and results out of.

You can deny it all you want but you know that is what was being said.
History changing? Which bit? Also when Bruce was in charge the squad included Johnson, Terry, Snodgrass and Grabban. That's not the squad he left us with. Without Johnson and Terry our defence is very poor by comparison and completely unbalanced which Bruce did NOTHING to rectify.

Bruce could certainly argue with justification that if the takeover had gone through earlier, Johnstone, Snodgrass and Grabban would have been resigned on permanent deals.

However, he made a catastrophic error of judgement going into the season with Jedinak, post a World Cup summer, as first choice left centre back. Purslow doesn't escape accountability for that either mind. The Bolasie and Abraham signings should never have been tolerated until a left centre back was brought in first. Bruce paid for that in the end with his job with a back five of Bunn and 3 right backs exposing his folly bare in that circus v Preston.

Belated efforts to bring in the French guy or McKenna from Aberdeen suggest an "oh fuck" moment was had too late in the day. Bruce had similar problems at Sunderland, like a kid in a sweet shop if given decent money.

Smith's first two signings suggest at least an effort has been made to correct chronic deficiencies in the squad with a far more physically dominant keeper and an allegedly pacy left centre back coming in.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on January 16, 2019, 10:08:27 PM

We've all, rightly, been very critical of managers who think that throwing strikers on is a suitable way to get back into a game because it disrupts the shape of the team and the play breaks down, we've seen that a number of times.  Smith went too far the other way on Saturday and focused entirely on keeping the shape and style as is but just swapping out some players at the back to get the ball moving faster.

Hopefully he's realised over the last few games that bringing on Whelan does nothing for us and realised that sometimes the right to do, with this squad, is to add another striker and start getting the ball into them quickly., Bolasie and El Ghazi were adding very little, both off for Adomah and Davis, going to a standard 442 (Thor out to the left) and getting the Ball in to davis and playing off him was the change to make, if nothing else it would've given our fullbacks a bit more protection.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on January 17, 2019, 06:26:35 AM
Purslow didn't start until 1st September. How's he accountable?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Pvb1968 on January 17, 2019, 06:33:01 AM
Christian Purslow is a big fish in a small pond at the moment, hopefully the pond will get bigger over time.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on January 17, 2019, 01:01:03 PM
It is quite simple for me. Bruce left a squad whose names on paper looked as strong as any in the division. Until you tried to pick a strong starting eleven from it. Then it was apparent how unbalanced the squad was. We were overloaded in midfield and could probably have picked two sets of midfielders who can do a job at this level but we were struggling when it came to picking a decent goalkeeper, a decent balanced defence and decent goalscorers. All Bruce's fault. But from the second they walked through the door the buck stopped with Smith, O'Kelly and Terry.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Hookeysmith on January 17, 2019, 01:30:54 PM
Quote from: Damo70 on January 17, 2019, 01:01:03 PM
It is quite simple for me. Bruce left a squad whose names on paper looked as strong as any in the division. Until you tried to pick a strong starting eleven from it. Then it was apparent how unbalanced the squad was. We were overloaded in midfield and could probably have picked two sets of midfielders who can do a job at this level but we were struggling when it came to picking a decent goalkeeper, a decent balanced defence and decent goalscorers. All Bruce's fault. But from the second they walked through the door the buck stopped with Smith, O'Kelly and Terry.
Agree with all the Bruce bit but as far as Smith is concerned he needs to have at least the core of the team to be his own and that will take time. Bruce bought established players in the main to mask the lack of tactics and style of play and hoped for individual ability to generate the win. Smith's ethos is on the team work ethic, youthfulness and ability to play at a pace. Some players responded when he first came but their lack of ability or age means that they ran out of steam pretty quickly. Take out a central figure like Grealish and it is not surprising what has happened recently, deeply frustrating, but not surpising
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on January 18, 2019, 09:32:44 AM
Smith has spoken:

"We’re quite top heavy, we’ve got four centre forwards here but we’re only playing one up front with Tammy.
We’ve got four who would probably play for most other teams in the Championship.

“We need to balance that squad a bit better and I think everyone knows we’ve been light at the back and this window gives us the opportunity.

“I went to see one of our owners, Nassef, on Wednesday night with our CEO and sporting director. There are an awful lot of plates spinning as I’m guessing there will be with a lot of other clubs.

“It’s not a great window, January, it’s a seller’s market and prices are at a premium; to go and get some bargains is very tough to do."

We certainly don’t want to stockpile players
If you are carrying too many numbers in the team and they are not playing, they can certainly become unsettled, working all week with nothing to show for it at the end of the week.

What we want to do is have competition for places and find a better balance for the squad. That will be position-wise but also age-wise. We are a fairly old squad in this league."

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on January 18, 2019, 10:03:08 AM
Quote from: Damo70 on January 17, 2019, 01:01:03 PM
It is quite simple for me. Bruce left a squad whose names on paper looked as strong as any in the division. Until you tried to pick a strong starting eleven from it. Then it was apparent how unbalanced the squad was. We were overloaded in midfield and could probably have picked two sets of midfielders who can do a job at this level but we were struggling when it came to picking a decent goalkeeper, a decent balanced defence and decent goalscorers. All Bruce's fault. But from the second they walked through the door the buck stopped with Smith, O'Kelly and Terry.

And when you put it in monetary terms it's enough to make you weep. Add up the fees for the attackers who are nowhere near the team, or shouldn't be - McCormack, Angela, Hogan, etc. and think about how good a championship defence you could assemble with that money.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on January 18, 2019, 01:21:19 PM
Quote from: themossman on January 18, 2019, 10:03:08 AM
Quote from: Damo70 on January 17, 2019, 01:01:03 PM
It is quite simple for me. Bruce left a squad whose names on paper looked as strong as any in the division. Until you tried to pick a strong starting eleven from it. Then it was apparent how unbalanced the squad was. We were overloaded in midfield and could probably have picked two sets of midfielders who can do a job at this level but we were struggling when it came to picking a decent goalkeeper, a decent balanced defence and decent goalscorers. All Bruce's fault. But from the second they walked through the door the buck stopped with Smith, O'Kelly and Terry.

And when you put it in monetary terms it's enough to make you weep. Add up the fees for the attackers who are nowhere near the team, or shouldn't be - McCormack, Angela, Hogan, etc. and think about how good a championship defence you could assemble with that money.
How good a back four and a keeper for that outlay in general, not just for a 2nd division side. Absolute bonkers amount of money.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on January 18, 2019, 01:22:39 PM
Actually since the mess we have been left in since MON every manager (except Remi) has left us in a shit state. Every new manager has had to re-build again and again.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 18, 2019, 02:19:56 PM
Maybe Smiths comments go some way to explaining last weeks performance.
A few bad apples.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kipeye on January 18, 2019, 03:09:50 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on January 18, 2019, 02:19:56 PM
Maybe Smiths comments go some way to explaining last weeks performance.
A few bad apples.
Think we might have an orchard...
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on January 18, 2019, 03:24:47 PM
I don't know if it's bad apples, I think a lot of our older players came through a different mindset where the fitness levels didn't need to be so high and having not had a summer to work on getting up there the bodies just aren't able to deliver what Smith is asking for. Most younger players will have come through seeing teams like Barca and Dortmund that have bags of talent but also have the fitness levels to keep a pressing game going and are well drilled in defending as a unit.

Whelan, Taylor, Hutton, Elphick, Chester will never really have experienced that having spent most of their careers playing for 'defend the box' managers like Bruce and Pulis.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on January 18, 2019, 03:59:12 PM
Quote from: Ads on January 17, 2019, 06:26:35 AM
Purslow didn't start until 1st September. How's he accountable?

He was certainly key to Abraham coming in on deadline day https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2018/08/31/aston-villa-open-contract-talks-jack-grealish-tammy-abraham/amp/.

There was no way Bruce was responsible for the Mendez duo of Morreira and El Ghazi coming in. I had presumed Purslow was around for them but seem like board solo runs now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on January 18, 2019, 04:04:19 PM
No we only appointed him on the 31st August it seems and he started the following day.

There was talk about an agent helping Bruce with signings.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villa75 on January 18, 2019, 04:20:45 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on January 18, 2019, 02:19:56 PM
Maybe Smiths comments go some way to explaining last weeks performance.
A few bad apples.



Where's that, recycled, excuse come from?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on January 18, 2019, 04:31:08 PM
I've not read Smith complain about attitudes. He has said it's a good but lopsided squad. Nothing about trouble makers, just players wanting to play and as well they all should.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 18, 2019, 04:57:15 PM
Quote from: Ads on January 18, 2019, 04:31:08 PM
I've not read Smith complain about attitudes. He has said it's a good but lopsided squad. Nothing about trouble makers, just players wanting to play and as well they all should.

Yes probably. It's more a case he wants the team to play a certain way and they can't do it. It's only natural for players to becomes frustrated with losing or not playing well and not being selected. Something Smith has played a large role in picking certain players consistently who have failed to perform.

The challenging thing for all of us is now we know just what it could look like, seeing what it has become recently while acknowledging the issues run much deeper than the time he has been allowed thus far to address many years of haphazard squad management. And all the time wanting to get out of this division and get back to what we can be as a top division football club.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 18, 2019, 06:45:53 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on January 18, 2019, 04:20:45 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on January 18, 2019, 02:19:56 PM
Maybe Smiths comments go some way to explaining last weeks performance.
A few bad apples.



Where's that, recycled, excuse come from?
It’s not an excuse, it’s a suggested supposition.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villa75 on January 18, 2019, 10:29:41 PM
Ah, supposition? A belief held without proof. I'm with you now.

I think the modern parlance is 'bullshit'.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Percy McCarthy on January 18, 2019, 10:43:02 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on January 18, 2019, 10:29:41 PM
Ah, supposition? A belief held without proof. I'm with you now.

I think the modern parlance is 'bullshit'.

He’s just putting it out there, as Franksy would say. No need to be rude.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villa75 on January 18, 2019, 10:52:01 PM
Making something up that has no foundation whatsoever is bullshit. That's not being rude.

Where does Smith's comments even vaguely suggest such nonsense?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 19, 2019, 12:54:31 AM
Quote from: Villa75 on January 18, 2019, 10:52:01 PM
Making something up that has no foundation whatsoever is bullshit. That's not being rude.

Where does Smith's comments even vaguely suggest such nonsense?
Oh dear.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tomd2103 on January 19, 2019, 10:21:10 AM
My one slight criticism of a Dean Smith so far is that he perhaps hasn't quite ruthless enough with some of the repeat poor performance offenders.  I suppose the problem he has got is that they aren't going anywhere due to the high wages they were foolishly given and he at least is trying to get use out of them. 

I have also been a bit disappointed in the reluctance to use the younger players, but fully accept that I don't see them in training and they may not be ready/ good enough to play.  I do think DS came in with a bit of leeway though and could have used some of them even if initial results had not been great. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on January 19, 2019, 10:26:07 AM
No more Bjarnasson please, he's crap. Get rid, another terrible Bruce signing.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on January 19, 2019, 11:00:15 AM
Quote from: Villa75 on January 18, 2019, 10:52:01 PM
Making something up that has no foundation whatsoever is bullshit. That's not being rude.

Where does Smith's comments even vaguely suggest such nonsense?
Well  he started his comment with a "maybe" Like all of us he's searching for a reason for our recent collapse. Like a previous poster said there really is no need to be rude.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TonyD on January 19, 2019, 11:45:23 AM
I think the big mystery is why when he first came the team gelled and we looked dangerous.  And now we look just like Bruce never left.   Why the reverse?    Other questions like why Whelan,  why the shit substitutions?   
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on January 19, 2019, 12:15:27 PM
He plays a certain high press attacking style of football.  And for that he needs the right type of players at his disposal. He clearly hasn’t got enough of those at the minute.  They’re so used to one paced, boring shit football, the older ones at least are probably not capable of adapting. 

When you add this to the fact that he still has remnants of McLeish’s, Sherwoods, Di Matteos and Bruce’s squads I think it’s a reasonable assumption that he needs a decent amount of time to get it right.  I’ve said before that the younger players can adapt to his style quicker because they’re prepared to learn and change.  See Axel, Jack etc. For once we as fans are going to have to be very patient, hold our nerve and allow him the time to develop it.  I’m quite looking forward to it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 19, 2019, 12:45:42 PM
Quote from: The Edge on January 19, 2019, 11:00:15 AM
Quote from: Villa75 on January 18, 2019, 10:52:01 PM
Making something up that has no foundation whatsoever is bullshit. That's not being rude.

Where does Smith's comments even vaguely suggest such nonsense?
Well  he started his comment with a "maybe" Like all of us he's searching for a reason for our recent collapse. Like a previous poster said there really is no need to be rude.
Thanks, yes I was just doing that. The word maybe was the clue.
Beynd losing Grealish Nd Tunzabee I don’t think any one was expecting last weeks performance.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: GarTomas on January 19, 2019, 05:38:36 PM
Needs time to bring the right type of player in.  Purslow said part of the attraction of Smith was his pedigree for setting sides up to play in an attacking style. Right now some of the players he has are just bang average.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on January 19, 2019, 06:09:19 PM
We will limp on until May and then hopefully strip the squad out and rebuild - give Smith two seasons at the least
Having said that I believe he needs  a defensive coach alongside him as his track record at Walsall and Brentford isn't brilliant
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 19, 2019, 06:21:32 PM
Quote from: GarTomas on January 19, 2019, 05:38:36 PM
Needs time to bring the right type of player in.  Purslow said part of the attraction of Smith was his pedigree for setting sides up to play in an attacking style. Right now some of the players he has are just bang average.

That might be true, but it doesn’t give him a free pass. He’s responsible for coaching our squad to be better and setting them up in a way that best suits them. There’s some rubbish in there no doubt, but equally he’s hardly pulling up trees in his role either at the moment.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 19, 2019, 06:40:40 PM
I’m beginning to think now barring some miracle we’re going to end the season in mid table a lot like how it looked at the end of Bruce year 1. Smith will then strip the club down, do away with the two winger thing and opt to go with entirely different players to play a set system. You can see he’s massively fucked off now. I don’t blame him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AlexAlexCropley on January 19, 2019, 06:44:43 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on January 19, 2019, 06:40:40 PM
I’m beginning to think now barring some miracle we’re going to end the season in mid table a lot like how it looked at the end of Bruce year 1. Smith will then strip the club down, do away with the two winger thing and opt to go with entirely different players to play a set system. You can see he’s massively fucked off now. I don’t blame him.
He's fucked off? Well boo hoo. Nothing compared to how shit it is watching from the stands.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 19, 2019, 06:48:24 PM
Quote from: AlexAlexCropley on January 19, 2019, 06:44:43 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on January 19, 2019, 06:40:40 PM
I’m beginning to think now barring some miracle we’re going to end the season in mid table a lot like how it looked at the end of Bruce year 1. Smith will then strip the club down, do away with the two winger thing and opt to go with entirely different players to play a set system. You can see he’s massively fucked off now. I don’t blame him.
He's fucked off? Well boo hoo. Nothing compared to how shit it is watching from the stands.

Good Lord. You literally follow me around. My own little stalker.

Yes I imagine he is fucked off. Why wouldn’t he be? A few months ago he was one of us so has that stopped? I get he’s the manager and paid to do a job and there is no doubt he could be doing some aspects better. But it’s not going to happen quickly. Right now it looks particularly bad. He has to fix it but in the meantime I expect yes he’s fucked off about not winning.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AlexAlexCropley on January 19, 2019, 06:49:29 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on January 19, 2019, 06:48:24 PM
Quote from: AlexAlexCropley on January 19, 2019, 06:44:43 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on January 19, 2019, 06:40:40 PM
I’m beginning to think now barring some miracle we’re going to end the season in mid table a lot like how it looked at the end of Bruce year 1. Smith will then strip the club down, do away with the two winger thing and opt to go with entirely different players to play a set system. You can see he’s massively fucked off now. I don’t blame him.
He's fucked off? Well boo hoo. Nothing compared to how shit it is watching from the stands.

Good Lord. You literally follow me around. My own little stalker.

Yes I imagine he is fucked off. Why wouldn’t he be? A few months ago he was one of us so has that stopped? I get he’s the manager and paid to do a job and there is no doubt he could be doing some aspects better. But it’s not going to happen quickly. Right now it looks particularly bad. He has to fix it but in the meantime I expect yes he’s fucked off about not winning.
Get over yourself
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on January 19, 2019, 06:55:07 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on January 19, 2019, 06:09:19 PM
We will limp on until May and then hopefully strip the squad out and rebuild - give Smith two seasons at the least
Having said that I believe he needs  a defensive coach alongside him as his track record at Walsall and Brentford isn't brilliant
Yes I think that’s fair, he has his way of playing and he needs to surround himself with players who can adopt that approach. You might be right, either a real good defensive coach or a really good centre back with leadership qualities to sort the mess out back there.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 19, 2019, 06:59:31 PM
Quote from: Ian J on January 19, 2019, 06:55:07 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on January 19, 2019, 06:09:19 PM
We will limp on until May and then hopefully strip the squad out and rebuild - give Smith two seasons at the least
Having said that I believe he needs  a defensive coach alongside him as his track record at Walsall and Brentford isn't brilliant
Yes I think that’s fair, he has his way of playing and he needs to surround himself with players who can adopt that approach. You might be right, either a real good defensive coach or a really good centre back with leadership qualities to sort the mess out back there.

Sorry at the level he’s managing at he can’t afford the luxury of having one way of playing if it doesn’t suit the personnel. Having an attack minded philosophy is fine but he needs to be able to adapt his tactics to the players he has. If he can’t do that he’ll never get the chance to bring in his own players at Villa.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SheffieldVillain on January 19, 2019, 07:02:25 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on January 19, 2019, 06:59:31 PM
Quote from: Ian J on January 19, 2019, 06:55:07 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on January 19, 2019, 06:09:19 PM
We will limp on until May and then hopefully strip the squad out and rebuild - give Smith two seasons at the least
Having said that I believe he needs  a defensive coach alongside him as his track record at Walsall and Brentford isn't brilliant
Yes I think that’s fair, he has his way of playing and he needs to surround himself with players who can adopt that approach. You might be right, either a real good defensive coach or a really good centre back with leadership qualities to sort the mess out back there.

Sorry at the level he’s managing at he can’t afford the luxury of having one way of playing if it doesn’t suit the personnel. Having an attack minded philosophy is fine but he needs to be able to adapt his tactics to the players he has. If he can’t do that he’ll never get the chance to bring in his own players at Villa.

The personnel didn't suit Bruce's defensive way of playing either.

I'm not quite sure what tactics do suit defenders who can't defend and midfielders with no energy.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Richard E on January 19, 2019, 07:06:10 PM
Bricking up the goalmouth.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on January 19, 2019, 07:17:35 PM
We've missed an opportunity this season.

Leeds are a good team but they're not in class of Wolves or Newcastle. Newcastle got 100 points in 16/17 and Wolves were a win away from that last year.

Leeds will go up but will be nowhere near that point tally.

Then you have Norwich and Boro who have dipped recently. Sheffield United are losing to Swansea atm....West Brom are like us, top heavy in attack and their lack of defensive nous has stopped them being comfortable in second.

I do feel this is the weakest championship we've been in. If Hull are this season's Fulham well I think that proves my point.

While I still want to give DS a free ish pass for this season I'd still be very disappointed not to make the top 6.

Only crumb of comfort is when you look at likely prem bottom 3 Huddersfield and Cardiff coming back down wouldn't scare me as both had miracles just to get up in the first place. Fulham went so crazy with signings half their current 11 probably wouldn't want to play for them in this division.

It would be nice for once to hit the ground running at the start of the season. 1 win in 10 stopped us going up automatically last season and it just piles too much pressure on us to make up ground.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Pvb1968 on January 19, 2019, 07:20:11 PM
He will sort this shower out.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on January 19, 2019, 07:43:52 PM
We're paying the price of the summer window for 17/18. Short term view and when the good players retire or go back to their parent club we're left with blergh.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villa75 on January 19, 2019, 07:58:26 PM
If the last few weeks are all we can expect him to get out of our squad, then he's not the coach/manager i hoped he would be.

Not good enough. Must do better.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on January 19, 2019, 08:01:25 PM
We haven’t got a decent enough squad specially CM and defence so Dean is doing ok with the bad hand he has been dealt.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 19, 2019, 08:14:52 PM
Quote from: Ads on January 19, 2019, 07:43:52 PM
We're paying the price of the summer window for 17/18. Short term view and when the good players retire or go back to their parent club we're left with blergh.

Correct. One more thing I put firmly at the doorstep of Steve Bruce. I would hate to think what we’d look like today had we gone up last season and Bruce give £50-60m to spend. That’s why I advocated the other day abandoning loans and building from within. I accept it won’t happen and a well thought out use of the system is effective. But we need to create a new Villa where we promote young players and recruit the best young ones we can find. Our reliance on older players is really starting to show. Something that in recent days is being openly acknowledged by the club.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on January 19, 2019, 08:18:19 PM
He's trying to do better. QPR away and today and even Derby actually in the first half; a long straight ball did for Chester. He cannot play it out, he cannot play on the left and the whole defence sans Axel cannot transition into midfield.

He's bought Hause whose 6 foot 3, quick and likes to play.

Sides have been doing what we did to Derby; we allowed Keogh the ball as he cannot play out and had the forward who ought to have pressed Keogh pick Fat Tom up instead.

Our defence can only switch the game side to side. They don't press our centre halves, they press the midfield or full backs that have to come deep to collect the ball. It makes us slow going back to front. Compare with Leeds whose transitions were very quick indeed.

You cannot defend like that from the front with Axel, as he'll bring the ball out 15 yards. Your forwards either go with him or pass onto your midfield, who must step out (as Axel will keep going) and suddenly you've got overloads and players like Grealish available in space. It makes a huge difference.

Compare and contrast our pressing second half when we dominated territory. It made a huge difference to turn over and re-set.

Smith isn't beyond criticism and I think we need to change shape until the midfield is strengthened.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on January 19, 2019, 08:19:28 PM
Quote from: Pvb1968 on January 19, 2019, 07:20:11 PM
He will sort this shower out.

Fair play to you, but what is your thinking? Pre Albion, I agree, post Albion, not so sure. I am not saying get rid, because that is silly, but Dean and his team (not his players, but he’s the manager so it’s his team) look lost
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: XXVilla on January 19, 2019, 08:23:54 PM
He looked lost in the first half today. Barely unfolded his arms for 45 mins
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on January 19, 2019, 08:48:26 PM
I may have missed it but in any of his interviews today, was he asked about incoming players or transfer business?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: berneboy on January 19, 2019, 08:57:22 PM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on January 19, 2019, 12:15:27 PM
He plays a certain high press attacking style of football.  And for that he needs the right type of players at his disposal. He clearly hasn’t got enough of those at the minute.  They’re so used to one paced, boring shit football, the older ones at least are probably not capable of adapting. 

When you add this to the fact that he still has remnants of McLeish’s, Sherwoods, Di Matteos and Bruce’s squads I think it’s a reasonable assumption that he needs a decent amount of time to get it right.  I’ve said before that the younger players can adapt to his style quicker because they’re prepared to learn and change.  See Axel, Jack etc. For once we as fans are going to have to be very patient, hold our nerve and allow him the time to develop it.  I’m quite looking forward to it.
You really should stop posting such balanced, sensible and calm words.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on January 19, 2019, 08:59:34 PM
I agree with you Kippax. Take BB today. Yes he made some good runs....but what was he going to do when he got there? What was he going to do when  he have it away?

Dreadfully frustrating watch them huff and puff.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 19, 2019, 09:11:41 PM
One of the absolute musts is that if he’s going to play Chester he plays on the right. I’m assuming that’s why Hause is brought in, but Chester simply cannot play on the left. He’s clearly not the only problem, but he kills our transition from defence to midfield.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Fred Crump on January 19, 2019, 09:17:29 PM
Quote from: berneboy on January 19, 2019, 08:57:22 PM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on January 19, 2019, 12:15:27 PM
He plays a certain high press attacking style of football.  And for that he needs the right type of players at his disposal. He clearly hasn’t got enough of those at the minute.  They’re so used to one paced, boring shit football, the older ones at least are probably not capable of adapting. 

When you add this to the fact that he still has remnants of McLeish’s, Sherwoods, Di Matteos and Bruce’s squads I think it’s a reasonable assumption that he needs a decent amount of time to get it right.  I’ve said before that the younger players can adapt to his style quicker because they’re prepared to learn and change.  See Axel, Jack etc. For once we as fans are going to have to be very patient, hold our nerve and allow him the time to develop it.  I’m quite looking forward to it.
You really should stop posting such balanced, sensible and calm words.
Yeah , pack it in Kippax. Let’s get back to criticising Smith who is clearly out of his depth at a club that’s too big for him and anticipating our imminent relegation struggle. ;)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: garyshawsknee on January 19, 2019, 09:18:28 PM
Don't forget he's lost the dressing room too.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on January 19, 2019, 09:26:21 PM
Quote from: garyshawsknee on January 19, 2019, 09:18:28 PM
Don't forget he's lost the dressing room too.

Sarcasm?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: garyshawsknee on January 19, 2019, 09:41:24 PM
Guilty as charged.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on January 19, 2019, 10:09:12 PM
I get the impression that this season was written off as soon as they got rid of Bruce and put the new system in place behind the scenes. We decided what kind of club we wanted to be going forward and what style of coach we wanted to lead that. We clearly don't have anywhere near enough of the kind of players needed to play the way that we want to play, with Smith not having a pre-season with us I get the impression that he is looking at the players we have now and seeing which ones will fit within his style as we go forward, he seems to stick to his variations of 4-4-3 but rotate the players quite regurlarly, i also think this is why the loans have been recalled.
I can see the remainder of the season playing out in the same manner as the last few weeks and it will be frustrating to watch in spells with the end result being that of only a few players being kept that can fit into the future.
Purslow made it clear from day 1 that promotion wasn't important this season and also made it clear recently that our squad is full of players we need to get rid of. I think and hope that we have finally got a good backroom set up here that are looking to the future and beyond, even if it means sacrificing the present.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AlexAlexCropley on January 19, 2019, 10:10:56 PM
Smith said Thursday he fully expected us to be in the play-offs.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on January 19, 2019, 10:23:09 PM
Quote from: XXVilla on January 19, 2019, 08:23:54 PM
He looked lost in the first half today. Barely unfolded his arms for 45 mins
That’s a clear breach of his contract. Get rid now I say.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: walsall villain on January 19, 2019, 10:23:55 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on January 19, 2019, 10:09:12 PM
I get the impression that this season was written off as soon as they got rid of Bruce and put the new system in place behind the scenes. We decided what kind of club we wanted to be going forward and what style of coach we wanted to lead that. We clearly don't have anywhere near enough of the kind of players needed to play the way that we want to play, with Smith not having a pre-season with us I get the impression that he is looking at the players we have now and seeing which ones will fit within his style as we go forward, he seems to stick to his variations of 4-4-3 but rotate the players quite regurlarly, i also think this is why the loans have been recalled.
I can see the remainder of the season playing out in the same manner as the last few weeks and it will be frustrating to watch in spells with the end result being that of only a few players being kept that can fit into the future.
Purslow made it clear from day 1 that promotion wasn't important this season and also made it clear recently that our squad is full of players we need to get rid of. I think and hope that we have finally got a good backroom set up here that are looking to the future and beyond, even if it means sacrificing the present.
That’s my feeling too. It’s painful in the short term but has to be done. We can’t keep throwing money at it obviously.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villa75 on January 19, 2019, 11:04:01 PM
Quote from: AlexAlexCropley on January 19, 2019, 10:10:56 PM
Smith said Thursday he fully expected us to be in the play-offs.

No, no. This can't be right?

The owners, manager, and fans expected us to be outplayed by the likes of Swansea, Wigan, et al, and to be wining 1 in 9. Go look at the threads in early/mid December. It's full of posts about how we'd all be happy to be scrabbling about in mid table under Dean Smith. That's why we brought him in and got rid of Bruce.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: XXVilla on January 19, 2019, 11:13:34 PM
Quote from: olaftab on January 19, 2019, 10:23:09 PM
Quote from: XXVilla on January 19, 2019, 08:23:54 PM
He looked lost in the first half today. Barely unfolded his arms for 45 mins
That’s a clear breach of his contract. Get rid now I say.

Now we all know you haven’t seen his contract
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on January 19, 2019, 11:20:34 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on January 19, 2019, 11:04:01 PM
Quote from: AlexAlexCropley on January 19, 2019, 10:10:56 PM
Smith said Thursday he fully expected us to be in the play-offs.

No, no. This can't be right?

The owners, manager, and fans expected us to be outplayed by the likes of Swansea, Wigan, et al, and to be wining 1 in 9. Go look at the threads in early/mid December. It's full of posts about how we'd all be happy to be scrabbling about in mid table under Dean Smith. That's why we brought him in and got rid of Bruce.

You're going to get alot of opportunities to practice that sarcasm over the next few months I feel.

We tried the quick approach under Bruce, this ones the long haul i'm afraid. Strap yourself in.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villa75 on January 19, 2019, 11:23:16 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on January 19, 2019, 11:20:34 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on January 19, 2019, 11:04:01 PM
Quote from: AlexAlexCropley on January 19, 2019, 10:10:56 PM
Smith said Thursday he fully expected us to be in the play-offs.

No, no. This can't be right?

The owners, manager, and fans expected us to be outplayed by the likes of Swansea, Wigan, et al, and to be wining 1 in 9. Go look at the threads in early/mid December. It's full of posts about how we'd all be happy to be scrabbling about in mid table under Dean Smith. That's why we brought him in and got rid of Bruce.

You're going to get alot of opportunities to practice that sarcasm over the next few months I feel.

We tried the quick approach under Bruce, this ones the long haul i'm afraid. Strap yourself in.


Unless the manager gets his arse in gear, I fear you are right!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tomd2103 on January 19, 2019, 11:43:52 PM
Quote from: XXVilla on January 19, 2019, 08:23:54 PM
He looked lost in the first half today. Barely unfolded his arms for 45 mins

I noticed that as well.  Not sure he could quite believe what he was witnessing during that half.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: curiousorange on January 20, 2019, 12:01:17 AM
I am supportive of Smith in general and very hopeful about his future at the club, but I can't get around how poorly we've been playing for the last two and a half months. If it was always down to individual performances I could rage at them, but the whole team look so devoid of ideas, so jaded, that it feels more like he's close to the end of his time here than the start. Questions at the moment should be along the lines of, 'what can we do to get the confidence back?' but if the answer is new players, then waiting until the summer is absurd. We're literally in the middle of the time when we can try and improve things. If we wait until the close season a rebuild puts an extraordinary amount of pressure on Smith to get it right straight away. Smith and the club need to give us reasons to stop grumbling and for yet another week, we're still waiting for those reasons.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on January 20, 2019, 12:20:54 AM
You mean since the 15th December.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: curiousorange on January 20, 2019, 12:23:24 AM
Yeah. Scratch that bit.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on January 20, 2019, 12:46:32 AM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on January 19, 2019, 06:21:32 PM
Quote from: GarTomas on January 19, 2019, 05:38:36 PM
Needs time to bring the right type of player in.  Purslow said part of the attraction of Smith was his pedigree for setting sides up to play in an attacking style. Right now some of the players he has are just bang average.

That might be true, but it doesn’t give him a free pass. He’s responsible for coaching our squad to be better and setting them up in a way that best suits them. There’s some rubbish in there no doubt, but equally he’s hardly pulling up trees in his role either at the moment.

The squad aren't flexible enough, they're old, and haven't the energy needed.

We have to keep trying though and playing thsinnee style so that everyone knows and understands. As time goes on we have to replace those that can't do it with those that can.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on January 20, 2019, 12:56:46 AM
I said a few days ago a lot of the players look like they're struggling with the workload because we didn't have a summer of focusing on this type of game so right now we're seeing players fall back on things they were doing under Bruce because that's what they're fit enough for.

Ads made a good point as well which is teams are letting our defence have the ball. I would add though that they are also having the odd rush at Chester and Taylor because they can both be harried into basic errors at the moment.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on January 20, 2019, 01:46:44 AM
Quote from: paul_e on January 20, 2019, 12:56:46 AM
I said a few days ago a lot of the players look like they're struggling with the workload because we didn't have a summer of focusing on this type of game so right now we're seeing players fall back on things they were doing under Bruce because that's what they're fit enough for.

Ads made a good point as well which is teams are letting our defence have the ball. I would add though that they are also having the odd rush at Chester and Taylor because they can both be harried into basic errors at the moment.

Which isn't helped by Kalinic consistently trying to pass to them when they're under pressure.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: adrenachrome on January 20, 2019, 03:46:43 AM
Quote from: Risso on January 20, 2019, 01:46:44 AM
Quote from: paul_e on January 20, 2019, 12:56:46 AM
I said a few days ago a lot of the players look like they're struggling with the workload because we didn't have a summer of focusing on this type of game so right now we're seeing players fall back on things they were doing under Bruce because that's what they're fit enough for.

Ads made a good point as well which is teams are letting our defence have the ball. I would add though that they are also having the odd rush at Chester and Taylor because they can both be harried into basic errors at the moment.

Which isn't helped by Kalinic consistently trying to pass to them when they're under pressure.

True. As an astute poster wrote recently, for all his faults Nyland's distribution was pretty good. It is going to take a while to get the new incumbent up to scratch in this respect.

This is our lot. No established player coming in will be without flaws, otherwise we would not get them in the first place. We have to hope that Dean Smith and his staff can get the job done. I think they can, but it will not be easy.

We have to use more players from the youth ranks, and I think most supporters realise this. As to why this hasn't happened already is a question worth debating. I think DS has been told to test the senior staff first. Of course, that is just a theory.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ROBBO on January 20, 2019, 06:39:54 AM
The youth ranks probably haven't been used because they are not up to it. Grealish was one that forced his way in because he was a stand out, it is do possible if you are good enough.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Neil Hawkes on January 20, 2019, 08:26:33 AM
As we've seen both the good and the poor performances under DS, are we really saying that when he is able to rebuild the squad we will not see more of the good performances?
If this means staying in this division for a while longer, until we have proper recruits for all positions, is that not a better proposition than mix & match, scraping through and winning the play-offs and getting battered in the premier league, (as we have more room for error where we are now)?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Allan C on January 20, 2019, 08:34:18 AM
Quote from: Neil Hawkes on January 20, 2019, 08:26:33 AM
As we've seen both the good and the poor performances under DS, are we really saying that when he is able to rebuild the squad we will not see more of the good performances?
If this means staying in this division for a while longer, until we have proper recruits for all positions, is that not a better proposition than mix & match, scraping through and winning the play-offs and getting battered in the premier league, (as we have more room for error where we are now)?
Absolutely spot on
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on January 20, 2019, 08:37:29 AM
Quote from: ROBBO on January 20, 2019, 06:39:54 AM
The youth ranks probably haven't been used because they are not up to it. Grealish was one that forced his way in because he was a stand out, it is do possible if you are good enough.

Totally agree. I'm not looking for any reason beyond not yet good enough to make a consistent positive difference.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sickbeggar on January 20, 2019, 08:38:08 AM
Unfortunately under previous managers we've always bought and not pushed the youth, understandably in a way because they take time to nurture, so now we've got players like Sulliman who is 21 this week and hasn't played a game for us. They should be being blooded at 17/18/19 imo. If you're going to go with the youth you have to start much earlier with them, give them a decent run of games, be a lot more ruthless in discarding those not up to the grade and realise its not consistent with a promotion challenge. I'd be up for it, but i'm not sure the novelty wouldn't wear off quickly for some of us.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Scratchins on January 20, 2019, 08:43:36 AM
Quote from: sickbeggar on January 20, 2019, 08:38:08 AM
Unfortunately under previous managers we've always bought and not pushed the youth, understandably in a way because they take time to nurture, so now we've got players like Sulliman who is 21 this week and hasn't played a game for us. They should be being blooded at 17/18/19 imo. If you're going to go with the youth you have to start much earlier with them, give them a decent run of games, be a lot more ruthless in discarding those not up to the grade and realise its not consistent with a promotion challenge. I'd be up for it, but i'm not sure the novelty wouldn't wear off quickly for some of us.
This is what Christian Purslow said on Wednesday.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sickbeggar on January 20, 2019, 08:48:45 AM
hah! Not if sure if that means you agree or i'm talking out my arse.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on January 20, 2019, 08:52:17 AM
Both Wagnar and Farke have had indifferent seasons followed by some pretty good ones. Even Warnock with Cardiff. So it can happen.

I still think with a few reinforcements and Axel and Grealish coming back will see us make the Play Offs.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on January 20, 2019, 09:17:32 AM
if we are planning g for next season already why play the players who are out of contract or the loan players

might as well go with   

                                                  Kalinic
                                    Bree  Revan Chester Green
                           O’hare, McGinn, Lansbury, Doyle-Hayes,
                                              Kodjia Davis

honestly don’t think it could do any worse than a 3 nill thrashing at Wigan being outplayed the whole match with few or no shots in target
and we would be in better shape for next season with the lads gaining valuable experience

(Lansbury only gets in because I think he’s staying but he is in reality just as bad as the rest of the midfield plodders)
                 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on January 20, 2019, 09:21:16 AM
As we can still make the Play Offs by playing our beat team and doing some strengthening. You can't do a major overhaul in January.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on January 20, 2019, 09:22:30 AM
Rushian Hepburn Murphy played an important part yesterday for Cambridge United in their 3-2 victory over Nothampton after falling behind twice.  We do have good young players, RHM, Green, Suliman, O'Hare, Davis.  Problem is we have had a run of managers who are obsessed with a safety first, safe pair of hands, better not take risks approach.  I thought and still hope Dean Smith is a more progressive manager than TSM1, TSM2, RDM, Garde, Black, KMac and Bruce.

With a squad that has a team with yet another out of touch goalkeeper, Hutton, Taylor, Chester, Bolaise, Hourihane, and Bjarnesson being inevitable starters, I knew what was coming so I went down the road to watch RHM play.  Good game.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sickbeggar on January 20, 2019, 09:27:36 AM
Quote from: john e on January 20, 2019, 09:17:32 AM
if we are planning g for next season already why play the players who are out of contract or the loan players

might as well go with   

                                                  Kalinic
                                    Bree  Revan Chester Green
                           O’hare, McGinn, Lansbury, Doyle-Hayes,
                                              Kodjia Davis

honestly don’t think it could do any worse than a 3 nill thrashing at Wigan being outplayed the whole match with few or no shots in target
and we would be in better shape for next season with the lads gaining valuable experience

(Lansbury only gets in because I think he’s staying but he is in reality just as bad as the rest of the midfield plodders)
               

Personally i wouldn't have a problem with that. Bree doesn't look out of place in an admittedly bad defence. I'd say he's been average so far. Green varies from good-ish to awful. Davis to me looks most likely to make the grade though i'm not sure he'll ever trouble the top of the scoring tables. The others? Worth a punt, but the fans will have to buy into this experiment,  give them time, and still maybe be left with 3 or 4 youth players who are obviously not good enough for this level
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on January 20, 2019, 09:31:30 AM
Quote from: Ads on January 20, 2019, 09:21:16 AM
As we can still make the Play Offs by playing our beat team and doing some strengthening. You can't do a major overhaul in January.

I haven’t given up on play offs either to be honest

but if our best team involves the likes of  Taylor, BB, Whelan,
Houraine, Elmo, Hogan, Hutton, then I fear we won’t make it anyway because they aren’t good enough and at their ages never will be now

it’s time for DS to be brave

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on January 20, 2019, 09:34:30 AM
It's the hand he's got and all he can do is play it. We cannot mask the poor performers without our better ones and it might take two windows before we gave a side whose default, regardless of injuries, is the beat football in the league.

That's what's crackers about it. Bruce's plodders, best football we've seen in years, Bruce's plodders and all because two people who can *gasp* pass and run with the ball are injured. 2!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Scratchins on January 20, 2019, 09:36:55 AM
Quote from: sickbeggar on January 20, 2019, 08:48:45 AM
hah! Not if sure if that means you agree or i'm talking out my arse.
I agree with you and after listening to Christian I think that he does too.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sickbeggar on January 20, 2019, 09:40:39 AM
Quote from: Scratchins on January 20, 2019, 09:36:55 AM
Quote from: sickbeggar on January 20, 2019, 08:48:45 AM
hah! Not if sure if that means you agree or i'm talking out my arse.
I agree with you and after listening to Christian I think that he does too.

Oh right. Was this in response to a question as to why we haven't played more youth players?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AV82EC on January 20, 2019, 09:40:56 AM
Quote from: Ads on January 20, 2019, 09:34:30 AM
It's the hand he's got and all he can do is play it. We cannot mask the poor performers without our better ones and it might take two windows before we gave a side whose default, regardless of injuries, is the beat football in the league.

That's what's crackers about it. Bruce's plodders, best football we've seen in years, Bruce's plodders and all because two people who can *gasp* pass and run with the ball are injured. 2!

It is quite appalling the squad that has been constructed to date and the position we’re in. Dean has to change shape until Jack is back or at least let younger squad members have a run other than Bruce’s geriatrics and loans.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brassneck on January 20, 2019, 09:49:04 AM
Quote from: Ads on January 20, 2019, 09:34:30 AM
It's the hand he's got and all he can do is play it. We cannot mask the poor performers without our better ones and it might take two windows before we gave a side whose default, regardless of injuries, is the beat football in the league.

That's what's crackers about it. Bruce's plodders, best football we've seen in years, Bruce's plodders and all because two people who can *gasp* pass and run with the ball are injured. 2!

If and when jack leaves in the summer, there will be money for 4 or 5 decent signings.

Looks like we’re going to have to go with the keeper, regardless of how he turns out.  Hause will possibly get up to speed and a LB is surely a must in this window.  One of someone like Sawyers or some of the DMs that we’ve been linked to would leave around 5 more positions to address.  Frustratingly, out of all the wingers we have, none are showing any consistency, including Green.  This is annoying.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on January 20, 2019, 09:56:46 AM
An entirely personal out of left field concept but I would be tempted to go cap in hand to Sid and ask him to teach Green to tackle then play him at left wing back.  Andre not Sid.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on January 20, 2019, 10:10:22 AM
Quote from: brian green on January 20, 2019, 09:56:46 AM
An entirely personal out of left field concept but I would be tempted to go cap in hand to Sid and ask him to teach Green to tackle then play him at left wing back.  Andre not Sid.

Not the worst idea in the world but Andre does have a habit of picking up injuries so adding tackling to his game might not help that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy65 on January 20, 2019, 10:34:16 AM
I see Sarri has come out and said that it’s difficult to motivate his Chelsea team. That comment might actually relate to us as well.

My concern is that Smith is probably too nice and when he tries to motivate or dish out bollockings the players take no notice. They just think, what have you ever achieved, what do you know?



Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on January 20, 2019, 10:38:05 AM
I don't buy that.

Wenger was always apparently very quiet and considered, achieved nothing, but won the double within 2 years.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brassneck on January 20, 2019, 10:40:33 AM
Quote from: Rudy65 on January 20, 2019, 10:34:16 AM
I see Sarri has come out and said that it’s difficult to motivate his Chelsea team. That comment might actually relate to us as well.

My concern is that Smith is probably too nice and when he tries to motivate or dish out bollockings the players take no notice. They just think, what have you ever achieved, what do you know?

Funny that because I often ask what our current team have achieved.

Also bear in mind that Bruce had achieved a fair amount and that didn’t seem to help.

My own feeling is that he’s inherited a side who are devoid of energy and were not trained anywhere near hard enough.

Once he gets a few of his own players and a full pre season under his belt, Smith will be fine.  I also doubt he’s the soft touch that you think he might be.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TopDeck113 on January 20, 2019, 10:46:39 AM
Agree with that. The "show us ya medals" mentality is the very least of many of our current squad's thinking.  "Show us where to sign for the big money, easy life that us the Villa" more like. If Smith has any issues, it's erasing that attitude which has become engrained in the first team dressing room for far too long.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on January 20, 2019, 10:47:26 AM
Quote from: brian green on January 20, 2019, 09:56:46 AM
An entirely personal out of left field concept but I would be tempted to go cap in hand to Sid and ask him to teach Green to tackle then play him at left wing back.  Andre not Sid.

Green looks distinctly uncomfortable with the ball at his left foot.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on January 20, 2019, 11:14:58 AM
It might be a confidence thing with Green as he does have some attributes, pace being one of them, but he needs lots of one to one attention and time. I don't think he adds a great deal to the team at the moment but with hard work before next season, he could be really useful.  To be fair, just by lacing up his boots and putting on his underpants, he seems to be offering more than El Ghazi at the moment.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on January 20, 2019, 11:16:23 AM
I thought El Ghazi did ok when he came on yesterday.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on January 20, 2019, 11:21:06 AM
Me too. Linked well with Hutton.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on January 20, 2019, 11:24:01 AM
I think he's consistently inconsistent and we need whole games out of him.  Did ok in five minute spells previously but I think he's a wasted talent at the moment.  I want to be wrong because he's done some good things and then seems to have rested on his laurels.  I just want more from him.  I don't disagree about yesterday though to be fair.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tomd2103 on January 20, 2019, 11:29:20 AM
Quote from: Newby on January 20, 2019, 11:24:01 AM
I think he's consistently inconsistent and we need whole games out of him.  Did ok in five minute spells previously but I think he's a wasted talent at the moment.  I want to be wrong because he's done some good things and then seems to have rested on his laurels.  I just want more from him.  I don't disagree about yesterday though to be fair.

I think the problem is that Bolasie, El Ghazi and Green all look far better when they come off the bench in the latter stages of games.  They seem to be pretty ineffective when they start, which isn't really much help to be honest.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on January 20, 2019, 11:34:04 AM
Quote from: tomd2103 on January 20, 2019, 11:29:20 AM
Quote from: Newby on January 20, 2019, 11:24:01 AM
I think he's consistently inconsistent and we need whole games out of him.  Did ok in five minute spells previously but I think he's a wasted talent at the moment.  I want to be wrong because he's done some good things and then seems to have rested on his laurels.  I just want more from him.  I don't disagree about yesterday though to be fair.

I think the problem is that Bolasie, El Ghazi and Green all look far better when they come off the bench in the latter stages of games.  They seem to be pretty ineffective when they start, which isn't really much help to be honest.

Nicely put Tom, I think that's what I should have said instead of spouting nonsense!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on January 20, 2019, 11:47:40 AM
He wasn't talking about Dean Smith but Sam Allardyce has just been speaking on Goals On Sunday about the difficulties in taking over a team during a season without having had a pre season at the club.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Allan C on January 20, 2019, 12:00:30 PM
Quote from: Brassneck on January 20, 2019, 10:40:33 AM
Quote from: Rudy65 on January 20, 2019, 10:34:16 AM
I see Sarri has come out and said that it’s difficult to motivate his Chelsea team. That comment might actually relate to us as well.

My concern is that Smith is probably too nice and when he tries to motivate or dish out bollockings the players take no notice. They just think, what have you ever achieved, what do you know?

Funny that because I often ask what our current team have achieved.

Also bear in mind that Bruce had achieved a fair amount and that didn’t seem to help.

My own feeling is that he’s inherited a side who are devoid of energy and were not trained anywhere near hard enough.

Once he gets a few of his own players and a full pre season under his belt, Smith will be fine.  I also doubt he’s the soft touch that you think he might be.
I don’t buy the “too soft” thing either. I’ve never met him but just looking at him and listening to him I think he can dish out a bollocking when he needs to
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Scratchins on January 20, 2019, 12:03:47 PM
Quote from: sickbeggar on January 20, 2019, 09:40:39 AM
Quote from: Scratchins on January 20, 2019, 09:36:55 AM
Quote from: sickbeggar on January 20, 2019, 08:48:45 AM
hah! Not if sure if that means you agree or i'm talking out my arse.
I agree with you and after listening to Christian I think that he does too.

Oh right. Was this in response to a question as to why we haven't played more youth players?

I can't remember which specific question but he said that the U23 team should be the reserves. Young players who look as though they will make the 1st team and players back from injury. There shouldn't be anyone in that squad who is not considered 1st team potential. We will change from bringing in older players on big contracts with no sell on value and concentrate on finding new talent to develop. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tomd2103 on January 20, 2019, 01:13:23 PM
Quote from: Newby on January 20, 2019, 11:34:04 AM
Quote from: tomd2103 on January 20, 2019, 11:29:20 AM
Quote from: Newby on January 20, 2019, 11:24:01 AM
I think he's consistently inconsistent and we need whole games out of him.  Did ok in five minute spells previously but I think he's a wasted talent at the moment.  I want to be wrong because he's done some good things and then seems to have rested on his laurels.  I just want more from him.  I don't disagree about yesterday though to be fair.

I think the problem is that Bolasie, El Ghazi and Green all look far better when they come off the bench in the latter stages of games.  They seem to be pretty ineffective when they start, which isn't really much help to be honest.

Nicely put Tom, I think that's what I should have said instead of spouting nonsense!

You were spot on mate.  Let's be honest he and the other wide players are not the only the ones.  For years now, we have been a team who have only been capable of performing well for a single half or even shorter spells in the majority of games. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TopDeck113 on January 20, 2019, 01:24:11 PM
Thierry Henry's record so far at Monaco is not making me have second thoughts about us appointing Smith. Home 5-1 defeat to Strasbourg yesterday and well and truly in a relegation fight.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on January 20, 2019, 01:28:21 PM
Quote from: Newby on January 20, 2019, 11:14:58 AM
  To be fair, just by lacing up his boots and putting on his underpants

Hi Steve. Best of luck at Sheffield Wednesday!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: gpbarr on January 20, 2019, 01:32:17 PM
Dean needs to be given time.

The club has been in decline for almost a decade - ownership, the academy, scouting, the squad, management - it was all an utter shambles, and thats why we are where we are. This nonsense about this squad being one of the best in this league is a total fallacy - skill / talent alone doesn't make a great team - Smith has inherited far too many 'prima donnas' who have the raw skills but sadly, not the intelligence or desire/passion to get to the top - when I look at the first team squad we have and measure it on that dimension, I'd keep McGinn, Chester, Bree, Grealish, Green, Davis, RHM, and Adomah - and churn the rest - Kodija is a great example of a player with talent but he's a stain on the club because he just doesn't put a shift in, its "me" not "team", and he'll never be any better than an average CH player.

We have new owners (who seem the real deal), a new CEO, and a new manager/coaching staff - we cannot turn round the squad overnight and whether we like it or not, we need to be patient. IMO, its not the end of the world if we fail to go up this season, because this summer we finally lose a whole host of "hangers on" and can start to re-build, bring in the likes of RHM and KD, Dean can get some players that understand what he's trying to do, and we can start to re-build and push on.

The time to judge him is a year from now - if we are not solidly in the top 4 comes Xmas 2019 then its time for the club to review but, not before then.           
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villa75 on January 20, 2019, 01:43:54 PM
Quote from: Neil Hawkes on January 20, 2019, 08:26:33 AM
As we've seen both the good and the poor performances under DS, are we really saying that when he is able to rebuild the squad we will not see more of the good performances?
If this means staying in this division for a while longer, until we have proper recruits for all positions, is that not a better proposition than mix & match, scraping through and winning the play-offs and getting battered in the premier league, (as we have more room for error where we are now)?

I thought that's what we've been doing for the last few seasons/managers?

I'd rather get promoted, by book or by crook, gaining millions to help us rebuild and becoming a more attractive proposition to decent players.

Telling a squad they don't need to worry about promotion, at a club expected to be challenging, is rarely going to have them busting a gut. It might even have them thinking, 'why am I here?'
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dorsetvillian on January 20, 2019, 01:51:47 PM
The team really seem at odds with how DS wants them to play.  That's why recent performances look so disjointed. Too many players are really struggling and lacking confidence.  It's going to be a long road back to the top.  No quick fix.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on January 21, 2019, 12:31:24 AM
Super annoying now as have observed  Dean continuous statement of "we knew how they would set up"

He also loves to state "how they (opposition ) would look to counter attack."

But he is still the one.
Just making observations

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on January 21, 2019, 12:35:28 AM
Quote from: dorsetvillian on January 20, 2019, 01:51:47 PM
The team really seem at odds with how DS wants them to play.  That's why recent performances look so disjointed. Too many players are really struggling and lacking confidence.  It's going to be a long road back to the top.  No quick fix.

He's start to name names in these post match interviews one could interpret that as digging out or just being honest.
Some players would be bothered being named others would say fair play

Depends on character
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KRS on January 21, 2019, 01:45:40 AM
I still don't get how performance levels and style of play have suddenly dropped off a cliff. When DS first came in, he couldn't praise the squad highly enough for being willing to learn and adapting to his methods in training, and that showed on the pitch. He spoke well about tactics of both ourselves and the opposition. What has happened to this willingness to learn and implementing what they do on the training ground during match days? Even his post game interviews have started to become repetitive with little signs of the problems he's identifying being addressed. How can what worked so well when he first joined have gone to shit so quickly with no explanation whatsoever other than losing Jack and Axel?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: wittonwarrior on January 21, 2019, 04:20:15 AM
What I find hard to understand is deano’s persistence with players such as bolasie who obviously don’t care a fig about the club. He also appears to be quite stubborn and has gone the exact opposite to Bruce with regards the o positioning
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sid1964 on January 21, 2019, 07:03:32 AM
Smith needs to be careful, if these owners don't see an improvement in performance and position in the league -  they may not see Smith as the manager to take us into next season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Taylor on January 21, 2019, 07:08:23 AM
I very much doubt this. Owners rarely sack managers early unless fans start demanding it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on January 21, 2019, 07:32:04 AM
I think you are right Taylor but I get the feeling that these owners are much more proactive than Ellis, Lerner and Xia ever were.  Any businessman worth the name can read in our recent history the damage done by unarrested slides in form.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on January 21, 2019, 07:42:43 AM
Unless we nosedive down the table or he loses the plot completely, I doubt he will be going anywhere. We just need a bit of confidence and belief back and just as importantly, patience from the fans.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sid1964 on January 21, 2019, 07:49:58 AM
i 100% agree and hope that Smith is given the time to sort out the team.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on January 21, 2019, 07:50:57 AM
the only way any manager keeps their job is by winning. Dean has to find a way to start winning again and quickly. You don't commit £1.5m a week to a project for it to fail.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on January 21, 2019, 09:34:15 AM
He urgently needs some new players in.  As that appears to be the Sporting Director's remit, he needs to pull his bloody finger out.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Neil Hawkes on January 21, 2019, 09:48:24 AM
Quote from: Villa75 on January 20, 2019, 01:43:54 PM
Quote from: Neil Hawkes on January 20, 2019, 08:26:33 AM
As we've seen both the good and the poor performances under DS, are we really saying that when he is able to rebuild the squad we will not see more of the good performances?
If this means staying in this division for a while longer, until we have proper recruits for all positions, is that not a better proposition than mix & match, scraping through and winning the play-offs and getting battered in the premier league, (as we have more room for error where we are now)?

I thought that's what we've been doing for the last few seasons/managers?

I'd rather get promoted, by book or by crook, gaining millions to help us rebuild and becoming a more attractive proposition to decent players.

Telling a squad they don't need to worry about promotion, at a club expected to be challenging, is rarely going to have them busting a gut. It might even have them thinking, 'why am I here?'
The important difference between previous managers and present manager is that we have seen what can be achieved with all players playing to the bosses game plan and it was good to watch.
I am struggling to remember anything since the "Benteke years" that I could say that about.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on January 21, 2019, 11:03:02 AM
Quote from: Villa75 on January 20, 2019, 01:43:54 PM
Quote from: Neil Hawkes on January 20, 2019, 08:26:33 AM
As we've seen both the good and the poor performances under DS, are we really saying that when he is able to rebuild the squad we will not see more of the good performances?
If this means staying in this division for a while longer, until we have proper recruits for all positions, is that not a better proposition than mix & match, scraping through and winning the play-offs and getting battered in the premier league, (as we have more room for error where we are now)?

I thought that's what we've been doing for the last few seasons/managers?

I'd rather get promoted, by book or by crook, gaining millions to help us rebuild and becoming a more attractive proposition to decent players.

Telling a squad they don't need to worry about promotion, at a club expected to be challenging, is rarely going to have them busting a gut. It might even have them thinking, 'why am I here?'

the 'hook or by crook' approach is why we are in our third season in this division

over reliant on Loan players, old has beens bought in to do a job and get us over the line which has failed
no long term thinking, no team building for the future, no plan, no system of play just a throw a load of players you think might stick together and hope


no way should we ever give up on promotion but your 'just one more heave' over the line approach is a rubbish way to run a football club and one we need to get away from asap

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villa75 on January 21, 2019, 11:27:41 AM
I wasn't saying that is the ideal way. Although, when we first came down, it should have been possible with a decent manager.

It was suggested, by a poster, that they would rather not go up if it meant struggling and getting beat each week.

I was saying I would love to go up in any way possible and grab the millions to help us rebuild properly.

Parachute payments end this season, and restrictions on our spending are going to be tight. Unless we happen to find an amazing manager, capable of minor miracles, and/or suddenly find a plethora of young talent, we are likely to be here for many, many years.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on January 21, 2019, 01:57:37 PM
Just my thoughts,but the expectations and demands of the Villa fans places massive pressure on any manager .YES we are a big club and have a great history but that does not give us a divine right to be in the top league - it's plain to see we have been mis managed for a very long time and there is no quick fix and the fans need to understand that  - I also think that the financial turmoil last summer was underestimated by some or has certainly been soon forgotten.
It's hard to admit but we need to look at the way in which some of the so called smaller clubs have achieved promotion and sustained their position - again personally  I am astounded that the Villa have managed to be outdone on and off the pitch by clubs like Bournemouth,Brighton, Burnley, Huddersfield et al.
None of them spending vast amounts while we have( and still do) waste millions season on season on mostly overpaid players who are not earning what they are paid - I am sure the new owners know what they are doing and we need to show patience - if this lot fail I dread to think what will happen to my beloved club
Finally -Dean Smith - Is he the real deal? Only time will tell.
Is being a Villa fan a help or hindrance?
He will feel the pain when we lose just like we do but does that place an extra strain/pressure on him ? At Brentford/Walsall the scrutiny by the press/ social media would have been less
The new manager bounce was great while it lasted -  I hope he does not persist with the criticisms of referees and the loss of two ( albeit key players) - one of which we may need to place in the summer in order to finance a rebuild of the squad ( of hopefully younger, keener and  more committed players)
Good luck to him
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on January 21, 2019, 02:57:28 PM
I feel we have a decent manager now and we're capable of making the Play Offs.

We've stumbled around for a number of years with half baked ideas and plans. To limit that to this league we have seen us waste in that first window £20m in fees on players who've barely featured and paid high wages to short term/limited players. That same season we changed manager (correctly) and spent more on 3 midfielders, none of whom are really good enough or have contributed very little.

Another summer and the manager spends significantly on wages and creates a spine of loanees. The manager failed, quote catastrophically given the circumstances and every advantage he had over every other club and went into a new season only because of the ownership flux.

The squad is a mesh of ideas and lacking in a style or identity.

When the right players are fit however, you can get a tune out of it and one that perhaps sounds better than anybody else's.

The issue is that lack of depth or quality in absolutely critical positions.

Despite all that, with the better players returning from injury and a chance to strengthen, the attack we possess, should give us the opportunity to hit the top 6 regardless of the glaring defensive problems we face.

If not, then we've got to have the courage to maintain a plan. It appears that would be the case from what Purslow and the like have said.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on January 21, 2019, 03:33:36 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on January 21, 2019, 11:27:41 AM
I wasn't saying that is the ideal way. Although, when we first came down, it should have been possible with a decent manager.

It was suggested, by a poster, that they would rather not go up if it meant struggling and getting beat each week.

I was saying I would love to go up in any way possible and grab the millions to help us rebuild properly.

Parachute payments end this season, and restrictions on our spending are going to be tight. Unless we happen to find an amazing manager, capable of minor miracles, and/or suddenly find a plethora of young talent, we are likely to be here for many, many years.

Plus not going up means almost certainly Jack will be off in the summer and I don't trust us to adequately replace him no matter how much of his fee we chuck at it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on January 21, 2019, 03:45:05 PM
Quote from: brian green on January 21, 2019, 07:32:04 AM
I think you are right Taylor but I get the feeling that these owners are much more proactive than Ellis, Lerner and Xia ever were.  Any businessman worth the name can read in our recent history the damage done by unarrested slides in form.

There weren't many who were as proactive as Doug. He gave Barton eighteen months, Turner two years and McNeill eight months. Dr Jo got one season and BFR got the bullet eight months after winning a trophy. I suspect even SGT was only one or two defeats away from the bullet in autumn 1989.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on January 21, 2019, 04:37:49 PM
Perhaps Deano roughed up a few feathers in players and now they only put in short shifts of efforts.

Said how it is and what he wants and expects and goes "I'm only playing you because I have to"

It can be disillusionment to players.

I think Bolasie leaving is a statement in one way or another

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on January 21, 2019, 04:39:45 PM
Yes, either he took the hump or perhaps more likely Smith weighed up what he could do with £80k a week or even half of that compared to a player that's forgot how to press.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on January 21, 2019, 06:47:06 PM
I wonder if El Ghazi will be next.  He can be just as bad.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 21, 2019, 06:50:19 PM
I wouldn’t get rid of El Ghazi. He’s demonstrated obvious talent and there’s a risk we end up with hardly any attacking options to go with our shambolic midfield and defence.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on January 21, 2019, 09:08:12 PM
I think Albert and Elmo  could go mate even BB .
Basically a cull of the older ones and the last chance for some money on them.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: garyshawsknee on January 21, 2019, 09:13:09 PM
Quote from: Damo70 on January 21, 2019, 03:45:05 PM
Quote from: brian green on January 21, 2019, 07:32:04 AM
I think you are right Taylor but I get the feeling that these owners are much more proactive than Ellis, Lerner and Xia ever were.  Any businessman worth the name can read in our recent history the damage done by unarrested slides in form.

There weren't many who were as proactive as Doug. He gave Barton eighteen months, Turner two years and McNeill eight months. Dr Jo got one season and BFR got the bullet eight months after winning a trophy. I suspect even SGT was only one or two defeats away from the bullet in autumn 1989.

Wasn't it the 1-0 home win against Derby? If we'd lost that our history could have been very different.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on January 21, 2019, 09:17:01 PM
Quote from: eamonn on January 21, 2019, 03:33:36 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on January 21, 2019, 11:27:41 AM
I wasn't saying that is the ideal way. Although, when we first came down, it should have been possible with a decent manager.

It was suggested, by a poster, that they would rather not go up if it meant struggling and getting beat each week.

I was saying I would love to go up in any way possible and grab the millions to help us rebuild properly.

Parachute payments end this season, and restrictions on our spending are going to be tight. Unless we happen to find an amazing manager, capable of minor miracles, and/or suddenly find a plethora of young talent, we are likely to be here for many, many years.

Plus not going up means almost certainly Jack will be off in the summer and I don't trust us to adequately replace him no matter how much of his fee we chuck at it.

I feel the owners know he is a sellable asset and unfortunately use this as part of a rebuilding plan. How exactly do they stop expectations though .

I think it's naive to say promotion isn't necessary and I get bloody annoyed when I think about what Purslow said.
Purse stings purse low I'll call him

I also don't like hearing though accept people's views that some people who follow villa don't want to be promoted as will struggle in premier league.

Talk about dampen expectations! That is annoying that it's become a club like that as clubs recently have shown being promoted and being competitive to being in league.

One thing is correct by Purslow is long way off top 6 but I feel villa would have chance to be a lot more than a whipping club if promotion occurred this season.

Also highly sceptical of any ambitious intentions if we are said to be given idea to be content in the championship
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sid1964 on January 22, 2019, 06:59:42 AM
The problem for us if we don't get promoted this season, what will happen to both McGinn and Jack in the summer, our 2 good players may decide that they dont want another season in the Championship and if a half decent premier league side show interest, they could be off.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on January 22, 2019, 07:36:03 AM
As they should. The only crumb of comfort is that it will bring profit into the club which hopefully, can be reinvested in enough players to build a half decent side around.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on January 22, 2019, 08:34:47 AM
I wonder if Tottenham fans spend as much time fantazing about selling Kane to Madrid in the summer.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brassneck on January 22, 2019, 08:44:15 AM
Quote from: Ads on January 22, 2019, 08:34:47 AM
I wonder if Tottenham fans spend as much time fantazing about selling Kane to Madrid in the summer.

The scenarios are completely different though.

We need a new team and we've got no money.

Personally, I am hoping against hope that we can keep Jack/nobody triggers his release clause.  My worry is that I doubt Jack would have signed if the release clause was as high as £40 million.  I would imagine that it will be between £20-30 million which won't buy us a new team.

In an ideal world, we keep Jack but being positive, selling him will go some way to helping rebuild the team which is an absolute must.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SheffieldVillain on January 22, 2019, 08:51:22 AM
Quote from: Brassneck on January 22, 2019, 08:44:15 AM
I would imagine that it will be between £20-30 million which won't buy us a new team.

You say that, but it's not impossible if we are more clever than we have been in the last decade with purchases. Our best buy for years has been McGinn and we paid what - £3m for him? - instead of the millions we spunked on Hogan, McCormack etc. They're out there if we can be bothered to look.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brassneck on January 22, 2019, 09:01:29 AM
Quote from: SheffieldVillain on January 22, 2019, 08:51:22 AM
Quote from: Brassneck on January 22, 2019, 08:44:15 AM
I would imagine that it will be between £20-30 million which won't buy us a new team.

You say that, but it's not impossible if we are more clever than we have been in the last decade with purchases. Our best buy for years has been McGinn and we paid what - £3m for him? - instead of the millions we spunked on Hogan, McCormack etc. They're out there if we can be bothered to look.

I wouldn't disagree - However, we have tried this route previously, Jordan Bowrey springs to mind.

Every player you sign is a gamble as there is no guarantee and every kind of signing comes with risks (foreign player/young up & coming player/aging PL player/etc)

Generally, money gets you the best players as Man City, Chelsea etc prove.  Also the last 2 Championship winners (Newcastle & Wolves) both spent big.

Realistically, to improve each position, we are going to have to spend at least £3 million per player, probably more.  We are also going to need a striker who will probably set us back double figures.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on January 22, 2019, 09:15:18 AM
Quote from: Brassneck on January 22, 2019, 08:44:15 AM
Quote from: Ads on January 22, 2019, 08:34:47 AM
I wonder if Tottenham fans spend as much time fantazing about selling Kane to Madrid in the summer.

The scenarios are completely different though.

We need a new team and we've got no money.

Personally, I am hoping against hope that we can keep Jack/nobody triggers his release clause.  My worry is that I doubt Jack would have signed if the release clause was as high as £40 million.  I would imagine that it will be between £20-30 million which won't buy us a new team.

In an ideal world, we keep Jack but being positive, selling him will go some way to helping rebuild the team which is an absolute must.



We've got no money?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on January 22, 2019, 09:17:30 AM
Quote from: Ads on January 22, 2019, 09:15:18 AM
Quote from: Brassneck on January 22, 2019, 08:44:15 AM
Quote from: Ads on January 22, 2019, 08:34:47 AM
I wonder if Tottenham fans spend as much time fantazing about selling Kane to Madrid in the summer.

The scenarios are completely different though.

We need a new team and we've got no money.

Personally, I am hoping against hope that we can keep Jack/nobody triggers his release clause.  My worry is that I doubt Jack would have signed if the release clause was as high as £40 million.  I would imagine that it will be between £20-30 million which won't buy us a new team.

In an ideal world, we keep Jack but being positive, selling him will go some way to helping rebuild the team which is an absolute must.



We've got no money?
Perhaps he means we're not allowed to spend it, which I think amounts to broadly the same thing, at least until we have a proper grip on FFP.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sickbeggar on January 22, 2019, 10:50:26 AM
With the best will in the world it's gonna take the best part of  50m and 3/4 seasons to totally rebuild our squad for the premiership with players who look like they could survive a season in the premier - i'm basing that on being able to spend 10-15m each season, paying an average of 3m for each player and the fact only Mcginn chester and Grealish could possibly thrive in the premier currently. So that's 7/8 first team players to replace and those in the 1st team or reserves currently who aren't good enough to be reserves, so probably another 8 players. A massive job.

Even if you go the Bruce route and just worry about a promotion side, I'd say we currently need to replace 4 first team players if Grealish was fit (and that's relying on Kalinic and Hause working out). And then you look at our reserves and whether they can cover for injuries. i'd say another 7 1st team positions haven't got adequate cover where a reserve is good enough to cover mid/long term injury. So overall that's another 30m and 2/3 seasons. No wonder Bruce went the loan route.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on January 22, 2019, 10:56:12 AM
Quote from: sickbeggar on January 22, 2019, 10:50:26 AM

With the best will in the world it's gonna the best part of  50m and 3/4 seasons to totally rebuild our squad for the premiership with players who look like they could survive a season in the premier - i'm basing that on being able to spend 10-15m each season, paying an average of 3m for each player and the fact only Mcginn chester and Grealish could possibly thrive in the premier currently. So that's 7/8 first team players to replace and those in the 1st team or reserves currently who aren't good enough to be reserves, so probably another 8 players. A massive job.

Even if you go the Bruce route and just worry about a promotion side, I'd say we currently need to replace 4 first team players if Grealish was fit (and that's relying on Kalinic and Hause working out). And then you look at our reserves and whether they can cover for injuries. i'd say another 7 1st team positions haven't got adequate cover where a reserve is good enough to cover mid/long term injury. So overall that's another 30m and 2/3 seasons. No wonder Bruce went the loan route.

The problem with that though, is that if you manage to sign the players good enough to get you up and who'd be good enough to keep you up, there's no way they're going to hang around being a Championship player for 3 or 4 years.  I can't see anyway that Grealish will stick around for another year, and it would be likely that McGinn would move on too.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: oldhill_avfc on January 22, 2019, 10:56:45 AM
The bigger worry is he'll want to leave without promotion (and who could blame him) - rather than needing to be sold to fund squad redevelopment.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sickbeggar on January 22, 2019, 11:00:24 AM
Quote from: Risso on January 22, 2019, 10:56:12 AM
Quote from: sickbeggar on January 22, 2019, 10:50:26 AM

With the best will in the world it's gonna the best part of  50m and 3/4 seasons to totally rebuild our squad for the premiership with players who look like they could survive a season in the premier - i'm basing that on being able to spend 10-15m each season, paying an average of 3m for each player and the fact only Mcginn chester and Grealish could possibly thrive in the premier currently. So that's 7/8 first team players to replace and those in the 1st team or reserves currently who aren't good enough to be reserves, so probably another 8 players. A massive job.

Even if you go the Bruce route and just worry about a promotion side, I'd say we currently need to replace 4 first team players if Grealish was fit (and that's relying on Kalinic and Hause working out). And then you look at our reserves and whether they can cover for injuries. i'd say another 7 1st team positions haven't got adequate cover where a reserve is good enough to cover mid/long term injury. So overall that's another 30m and 2/3 seasons. No wonder Bruce went the loan route.

The problem with that though, is that if you manage to sign the players good enough to get you up and who'd be good enough to keep you up, there's no way they're going to hang around being a Championship player for 3 or 4 years.  I can't see anyway that Grealish will stick around for another year, and it would be likely that McGinn would move on too.

yep, I did realise that flaw with my thinking. I Just chose to ignore it 8) End of the day though, you can't base team-building plans on how long you think your better players will stick around for. We've got to look at a gradual and yes, long term plan, so this window you'd hope some positions will be looked at urgently whether that's the permanent player DS wants or a loan till he can get them in the summer, and then you've got the natural process of replacing players out of contract in the summer with 1st team players in their positions and not more reserves, loans or hopeful punts who may/may not work out.

So for example

Jedinak/Whelan  - now I want someone in now, but we need them both properly replaced in the summer or at least 1 with a youth player promoted if they're up to it.

Elphick - needs replacing with quality so we have at least 3 quality centre halves and 1 youth possibly so Chester, Hause if he works out, a.n.other and youth player. Richards off the wage bill will cover the wages and probably another 2 players on top of that.

Hutton - erm. Well again we need someone in now, but we need a minimum of 1 left back and 1 right back. Sort out the reserves from the crap that's left, but ideally 2 of each in, De laet going should free up some wages and mebbe Bruce will come in for Taylor/Elmo

Bunn/Steer - let them both go. We have 2 keepers and they're not good enough

So that's a maximum of 9 players in/5 minimum or 27m/15m just based on those out of contract. If we spend 27m i'd be amazed personally but there you go, and that's not including replacing Abraham/Ghazi. As I said, massive job.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on January 22, 2019, 12:02:07 PM
Where do people come up with the stuff?

Whose been promoted recently needing to have spent £50m?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sickbeggar on January 22, 2019, 12:12:41 PM
Quote from: Ads on January 22, 2019, 12:02:07 PM
Where do people come up with the stuff?

Whose been promoted recently needing to have spent £50m?

to guarantee staying up is the point, and lets face it Fulham spent much more than that in May, and 20m  to get promoted with far fewer players to replace than us


Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on January 22, 2019, 12:52:35 PM
And Huddersfield and Burnley spent far less.

I really don't understand why people are concerned about how we'd fare in the top flight. Let's get there first.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villa75 on January 22, 2019, 12:56:06 PM
Quote from: Ads on January 22, 2019, 12:52:35 PM
And Huddersfield and Burnley spent far less.

I really don't understand why people are concerned about how we'd fare in the top flight. Let's get there first.

Agreed.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sickbeggar on January 22, 2019, 01:03:55 PM
Quote from: Ads on January 22, 2019, 12:52:35 PM
And Huddersfield and Burnley spent far less.

I really don't understand why people are concerned about how we'd fare in the top flight. Let's get there first.


And how do we do that without spending a shitload of money? Look at the players leaving or on loan this season and tell me honestly, who you would re-sign, replace with new signings, replace with existing players/youth/loans and then give me your budget to do it

Bunn
Steer
Elphick
Tuanzebe
Hause
Hutton
De Laet
Whelan
Jedinak
Bolasie
El ghazi
Abraham


Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on January 22, 2019, 01:10:27 PM
Quote from: sickbeggar on January 22, 2019, 01:03:55 PM
Quote from: Ads on January 22, 2019, 12:52:35 PM
And Huddersfield and Burnley spent far less.

I really don't understand why people are concerned about how we'd fare in the top flight. Let's get there first.


And how do we do that without spending a shitload of money? Look at the players leaving or on loan this season and tell me honestly, who you would re-sign, replace with new signings, replace with existing players/youth/loans and then give me your budget to do it

Bunn
Steer
Elphick
Tuanzebe
Hause
Hutton
De Laet
Whelan
Jedinak
Bolasie
El ghazi
Abraham

I'd like to keep Abraham and Tuanzebe from that lot and let the rest go.

Sign a new CM, CB would cover the rest. Hause I'm not sure about as we've not seen him properly yet.

In the wages you'd save you could make a couple of really decent signings.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on January 22, 2019, 01:10:37 PM
Quote from: sickbeggar on January 22, 2019, 12:12:41 PM
Quote from: Ads on January 22, 2019, 12:02:07 PM
Where do people come up with the stuff?

Whose been promoted recently needing to have spent £50m?

to guarantee staying up is the point, and lets face it Fulham spent much more than that in May, and 20m  to get promoted with far fewer players to replace than us



But once you're up you can do a fair amount of rebuilding with the PL windfall.  Yes, in an ideal world a number of our players will be able to make the step up, but we really don't need to build a PL ready squad before getting promoted.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sickbeggar on January 22, 2019, 01:12:17 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on January 22, 2019, 01:10:37 PM
Quote from: sickbeggar on January 22, 2019, 12:12:41 PM
Quote from: Ads on January 22, 2019, 12:02:07 PM
Where do people come up with the stuff?

Whose been promoted recently needing to have spent £50m?

to guarantee staying up is the point, and lets face it Fulham spent much more than that in May, and 20m  to get promoted with far fewer players to replace than us



But once you're up you can do a fair amount of rebuilding with the PL windfall.  Yes, in an ideal world a number of our players will be able to make the step up, but we really don't need to build a PL ready squad before getting promoted.


but in Fulham's case who spent 90m when they came up they're still bottom of the league
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: oldhill_avfc on January 22, 2019, 01:18:35 PM
but with a squad if it stays together would walk the current Championship and go back up again ... and more likely to stay up 2nd time around
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brassneck on January 22, 2019, 01:19:55 PM
There's no right or wrong way - Fulham spent the money and look like they are coming straight back down.  Cardiff & Huddersfield haven't spent money and both could well also come down, Huddersfield albeit after 2 seasons.

I agree that we should get there first before worrying about staying there.

However, I think we do need to spend a considerable amount on rebuilding.  The most likely source to fund this would be from the sale of Jack and possibly McGinn.  I've reached the point where I think that the Derby/Middlesboro performances have gone and won't be returning with the current squad.  Smith needs to rebuild and needs his own players.  It's clear that the current staff are not going to be the answer.  It reminds me a bit of the scenario when Brian Little took over Big Ron's aging team of household names.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sickbeggar on January 22, 2019, 01:22:25 PM
Quote from: oldhill_avfc on January 22, 2019, 01:18:35 PM
but with a squad if it stays together would walk the current Championship and go back up again ... and more likely to stay up 2nd time around

well yeah but is that the objective? yo-yo club? Even wolves who look like surviving spent 82m in May and they had a much better squad than fulham
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sickbeggar on January 22, 2019, 01:35:55 PM
Quote from: Brassneck on January 22, 2019, 01:19:55 PM
There's no right or wrong way - Fulham spent the money and look like they are coming straight back down.  Cardiff & Huddersfield haven't spent money and both could well also come down, Huddersfield albeit after 2 seasons.

I agree that we should get there first before worrying about staying there.

However, I think we do need to spend a considerable amount on rebuilding.  The most likely source to fund this would be from the sale of Jack and possibly McGinn.  I've reached the point where I think that the Derby/Middlesboro performances have gone and won't be returning with the current squad.  Smith needs to rebuild and needs his own players.  It's clear that the current staff are not going to be the answer.  It reminds me a bit of the scenario when Brian Little took over Big Ron's aging team of household names.


yeah and its going to take money

Centre half - we will have 1centre half in May currently. I'd like 2 in (6m)
Fullbacks - we need one of each. None at the club can play how Smith wants to (6m)
Centre midfielder - 1 minimum 3m
Bolaise/el ghazi - replace with youth/more loans?
Abraham - try and get him again on loan or someone else or pay 10m for a championship striker?

the bare minimum I make it is 15m and i'm not exactly sure 3m per player is realistic
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brassneck on January 22, 2019, 01:54:33 PM
Quote from: sickbeggar on January 22, 2019, 01:35:55 PM
Quote from: Brassneck on January 22, 2019, 01:19:55 PM
There's no right or wrong way - Fulham spent the money and look like they are coming straight back down.  Cardiff & Huddersfield haven't spent money and both could well also come down, Huddersfield albeit after 2 seasons.

I agree that we should get there first before worrying about staying there.

However, I think we do need to spend a considerable amount on rebuilding.  The most likely source to fund this would be from the sale of Jack and possibly McGinn.  I've reached the point where I think that the Derby/Middlesboro performances have gone and won't be returning with the current squad.  Smith needs to rebuild and needs his own players.  It's clear that the current staff are not going to be the answer.  It reminds me a bit of the scenario when Brian Little took over Big Ron's aging team of household names.


yeah and its going to take money

Centre half - we will have 1centre half in May currently. I'd like 2 in (6m)
Fullbacks - we need one of each. None at the club can play how Smith wants to (6m)
Centre midfielder - 1 minimum 3m
Bolaise/el ghazi - replace with youth/more loans?
Abraham - try and get him again on loan or someone else or pay 10m for a championship striker?

the bare minimum I make it is 15m and i'm not exactly sure 3m per player is realistic

& therein lies another problem.  It's all very well stating that we don't want loans.  I don't think anyone wants loans in an ideal world but when you don't have the funds and you have an opportunity of loaning a player that is better than what you've got, you would be foolish not to take that opportunity.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: papa lazarou on January 22, 2019, 01:56:16 PM
But it's gonna take money, a whole lot of spending money, it's gonna take plenty of money, to do it right, child
It's gonna take time, a whole lot of precious time, it's gonna take patience and time
To do it, to do it, to do it, to do it, to do it, to do it right, child
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on January 22, 2019, 02:00:16 PM
By George, I think you're onto something there.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mike on January 22, 2019, 02:03:16 PM
I wouldn't waste too much time just yet worrying about what happens when we get promoted.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Pvb1968 on January 22, 2019, 02:45:13 PM
Quote from: papa lazarou on January 22, 2019, 01:56:16 PM
But it's gonna take money, a whole lot of spending money, it's gonna take plenty of money, to do it right, child
It's gonna take time, a whole lot of precious time, it's gonna take patience and time
To do it, to do it, to do it, to do it, to do it, to do it right, child
My sweet lord your spot on.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on January 22, 2019, 03:15:43 PM
We have to consider where we want to be in 2-3 years when we're making signings, we're giving 3-4 year contracts so these should be players that we're confident can provide something in the long term.

In terms of the squad come the summer (assuming no one leaves who isn't scheduled to) I make is as having the following and in brackets I've put how many first team options i'd like in each.

GK (3)
Kalinic, Nyland, Sarkic

Right Back (2)
Bree, Elmo

Left Back (2)
Taylor, Clark

Centre Back (4)
Chester, Hause, New {Suliman} {Revan} {Bedeau}

Centre Mid (6)
Bjarnason, Hourihane, McGinn, Lansbury, Grealish, {Doyle-Hayes} {Clarke} {Lyden}

Wing (3)
Adomah, Green, New {O'Hare}

Strikers (4)
Kodjia, Hogan, Davis, New/{Hepburn-Murphy}

I've assumed that Hause will stay and I've added all the kids because whilst some of them will be out of contract we don't know how many will be kept, those contract negotiations generally run quite late.


I've also marked (in italics) the players that I'd like to see sold and replaced if possible but that are part of the squad for now.


I think Mitch Clark and Green should be considered part of the first team squad, both have, in my opinion, shown they're good enough for this level. The youngsters who are either out of contract or I'm not sure about I've put in as backup options.


So 2-3 signings to give us the depth we want in each position and then we're looking to get upgrades on another 5. That's a lot of work but if we can get some of the kids some gametime (either here or on loan) between now and the summer they might be the answer to a couple of those. There's a few very good frees available in the summer so that could cover a couple of those as well and then I'd be ok with 1-2 loans where our kids are struggling to step up.


With good scouting, good coaching and an attitude of improving the players we have alongside new signings we could spend around £10m in the summer (and see a massive drop in wage costs) and be in a much better place with a younger and fitter squad and plenty of players who could step up a level with us. Keeping Jack would be a massive positive, I'm not that worried about McGinn going just yet, he's been pretty much under the radar so far.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on January 22, 2019, 04:49:35 PM
I like the look of that Size fella.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on January 22, 2019, 04:55:59 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on January 22, 2019, 04:49:35 PM
I like the look of that Size fella.

Fitz Hall? Is he still playing? ;)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: walsall villain on January 22, 2019, 05:05:16 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on January 22, 2019, 04:49:35 PM
I like the look of that Size fella.
The utility player we’ve been after, looks like he can play many positions.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: passport1 on January 22, 2019, 05:21:34 PM
One Size fits all?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 22, 2019, 05:23:41 PM
Quote from: walsall villain on January 22, 2019, 05:05:16 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on January 22, 2019, 04:49:35 PM
I like the look of that Size fella.
The utility player we’ve been after, looks like he can play many positions.
Yes one Size fits all.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AlexAlexCropley on January 22, 2019, 05:59:19 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on January 22, 2019, 04:49:35 PM
I like the look of that Size fella.
Does he run a trainer shop?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on January 22, 2019, 06:37:05 PM
Ah feck, didn't check it wasn't doing odd shit with the text, I'm not fixing it from my phone.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on January 22, 2019, 09:01:16 PM
Quote from: sickbeggar on January 22, 2019, 01:12:17 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on January 22, 2019, 01:10:37 PM
Quote from: sickbeggar on January 22, 2019, 12:12:41 PM
Quote from: Ads on January 22, 2019, 12:02:07 PM
Where do people come up with the stuff?

Whose been promoted recently needing to have spent £50m?

to guarantee staying up is the point, and lets face it Fulham spent much more than that in May, and 20m  to get promoted with far fewer players to replace than us



But once you're up you can do a fair amount of rebuilding with the PL windfall.  Yes, in an ideal world a number of our players will be able to make the step up, but we really don't need to build a PL ready squad before getting promoted.


but in Fulham's case who spent 90m when they came up they're still bottom of the league

There's an argument to made that Fulham are at the botton because they spent £90m.

They were a very good side last year. They worked as a unit and had some excellent players playing for each other. It looks like some of the buys haven't been any better and have put noses out of joint by their arrival on, presumably, big contracts.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on January 22, 2019, 09:13:35 PM
Unbalanced squad. Or at least the defenders they brought in weren't up to standard of their attacking players.
They bought failed or unproven defenders and odi is way to short and ream far too awful to be anything but chicken feed to the premier league strikers

Anyway annoys me because I think Villa would have made a better fist of it ? And maybe Abrahams would have been with us premier league .
Mind you we may have risked Bryan who doesn't seem to be lighting up that left side.

Chambers , Mawson , Fonsu mensa, all were regularly outclassed whenever they attempted defending last season

Good luck to them but when Harry Winks can score a header they have got issues .

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on January 22, 2019, 09:16:37 PM
But Ryan sessengon is a talent and Ranieri has gone old school bringing in Ryan Babel someone who failed previously though has improved as a player but now pushed their best player out the side.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: walsall villain on January 22, 2019, 09:16:49 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on January 22, 2019, 05:23:41 PM
Quote from: walsall villain on January 22, 2019, 05:05:16 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on January 22, 2019, 04:49:35 PM
I like the look of that Size fella.
The utility player we’ve been after, looks like he can play many positions.
Yes one Size fits all.
Very good
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brassneck on January 22, 2019, 09:42:46 PM
Quote from: footyskillz on January 22, 2019, 09:16:37 PM
But Ryan sessengon is a talent and Ranieri has gone old school bringing in Ryan Babel someone who failed previously though has improved as a player but now pushed their best player out the side.

Sessengon scored a similar amount of goals to Albert last season.  He was excellent at timing his runs.  It's not so easy in the PL and he has found it difficult.  I personally don't think he's half the player that he's hyped up to be and a country mile behind the likes of Jack.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on January 22, 2019, 09:58:08 PM
Quote from: Brassneck on January 22, 2019, 09:42:46 PM
Quote from: footyskillz on January 22, 2019, 09:16:37 PM
But Ryan sessengon is a talent and Ranieri has gone old school bringing in Ryan Babel someone who failed previously though has improved as a player but now pushed their best player out the side.

Sessengon scored a similar amount of goals to Albert last season.  He was excellent at timing his runs.  It's not so easy in the PL and he has found it difficult.  I personally don't think he's half the player that he's hyped up to be and a country mile behind the likes of Jack.

Young kid with exceptional pace. Plenty of them have been overhyped over the years. Hopefully he'll learn from this and develop rather than following the Walcott route.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Allan C on January 22, 2019, 10:49:04 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on January 22, 2019, 09:01:16 PM
Quote from: sickbeggar on January 22, 2019, 01:12:17 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on January 22, 2019, 01:10:37 PM
Quote from: sickbeggar on January 22, 2019, 12:12:41 PM
Quote from: Ads on January 22, 2019, 12:02:07 PM
Where do people come up with the stuff?

Whose been promoted recently needing to have spent £50m?

to guarantee staying up is the point, and lets face it Fulham spent much more than that in May, and 20m  to get promoted with far fewer players to replace than us



But once you're up you can do a fair amount of rebuilding with the PL windfall.  Yes, in an ideal world a number of our players will be able to make the step up, but we really don't need to build a PL ready squad before getting promoted.


but in Fulham's case who spent 90m when they came up they're still bottom of the league

There's an argument to made that Fulham are at the botton because they spent £90m.

They were a very good side last year. They worked as a unit and had some excellent players playing for each other. It looks like some of the buys haven't been any better and have put noses out of joint by their arrival on, presumably, big contracts.
Very good point. I think we should start to build a Premier League squad now which I accept won’t be easy given the financial position. When promotion comes we can then fit the players we buy into a squad that is good enough to get there and remain there. We are nowhere near that point at the moment
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on January 22, 2019, 11:41:33 PM
Sessegnon is a cracking player for his age and if he was ours we'd be creaming ourselves. He's nearly 5 years younger than Jack and already has twice as many goals and more assists than Jack does for us despite often being played as a defender.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brassneck on January 22, 2019, 11:49:15 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on January 22, 2019, 11:41:33 PM
Sessegnon is a cracking player for his age and if he was ours we'd be creaming ourselves. He's nearly 5 years younger than Jack and already has twice as many goals and more assists than Jack does for us despite often being played as a defender.

& as I stated, Albert scored twice as many as Jack also.  Who would you prefer to have in the team?

The games I've watched Sessegnon (more last season), many have passed him by but he was able to pop up in the right place to score (the game against us being a prime example).  This papered over the cracks, as it did with Albert in his purple patch.  It hasn't happened for Sessegnon this season and he's struggled.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on January 23, 2019, 01:18:05 AM
I was on about in his career not just last season. If someone who is over 4 years younger and has scored twice as many goals and has more assists in their career than Jack has is overrated, then what does that make Jack. And Sessegnon has 2 goals and 5 assists this season which isn't bad for an 18 year old in a struggling side. By comparison Jack has 1 goal and 1 assist in the top flight.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on January 23, 2019, 01:35:41 AM
They are very different players though. Grealish dominates our play and makes us dangerous. Sessegnon is a speedster on the wing with an eye for a goal.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on January 23, 2019, 01:41:21 AM
I agree but it was Brassneck that said he wasn't half the player Jack is and that he's overrated which I disagree with as for his age he's a cracking player with the stats to back it up and is one we'd love to have come through our ranks.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brassneck on January 23, 2019, 06:32:01 AM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on January 23, 2019, 01:18:05 AM
I was on about in his career not just last season. If someone who is over 4 years younger and has scored twice as many goals and has more assists in their career than Jack has is overrated, then what does that make Jack. And Sessegnon has 2 goals and 5 assists this season which isn't bad for an 18 year old in a struggling side. By comparison Jack has 1 goal and 1 assist in the top flight.

What does that make Jack?  Look at how the team has performed since he’s been out of the side.  And don’t get fooled that last seasons upsurge after Xmas was down to Agnew like many did because it wasn’t.  It was down to Jack returning.  Everything comes through Jack and he has had a hand in many goals this season.  Your stats won’t list those though because someone else made the final pass/cross.

As for Sessegnon, yes, he did well for 18 months considering his age by scoring those goals but I repeat, many games passed him by.  This season he has struggled.  Be that being down to the step up or because of a drop in form, I don’t know but he’s currently either being subbed or not starting for the bottom side.

I believe that he is overrated and now that the inevitable dry patch as far as goals are concerned has arrived, he is struggling to get into a poor side.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on January 23, 2019, 08:05:42 AM
To be fair to Sessegnon he is playing in a team who look out of their depth in the top flight. Like a lot of our new signings going into our relegation season. How good he actually is will probably reflected by who does or doesn't buy him when Fulham go back down.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on January 23, 2019, 08:35:49 AM
Agree Damo.  Quality players need the playing environment of good, preferably winning, football to develop their full potential, eg Gary Cahill, Marc Albrighton, Barry Bannon (yes, seriously) and others.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kieron on January 23, 2019, 10:17:57 AM
New interview.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sickbeggar on January 23, 2019, 10:30:59 AM
Hope it's just me but he's beginning to look like Steve Bruce after he's had a gastric band fitted. My advice Dean is to go down the gym more often, have a shave and resist any temptation to use the same hair stylist your mum does.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on January 23, 2019, 10:46:53 AM
Quote from: sickbeggar on January 23, 2019, 10:30:59 AM
Hope it's just me but he's beginning to look like Steve Bruce after he's had a gastric band fitted. My advice Dean is to go down the gym more often, have a shave and resist any temptation to use the same hair stylist your mum does.
If Mrs Smith snr has short back and sides I'm worried for her. I think the effervescence of earlier interviews has deserted him and that's surely down to results. That and the realization of the true scale of the rebuilding job he's inherited.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sickbeggar on January 23, 2019, 10:54:34 AM
Quote from: The Edge on January 23, 2019, 10:46:53 AM
Quote from: sickbeggar on January 23, 2019, 10:30:59 AM
Hope it's just me but he's beginning to look like Steve Bruce after he's had a gastric band fitted. My advice Dean is to go down the gym more often, have a shave and resist any temptation to use the same hair stylist your mum does.
If Mrs Smith snr has short back and sides I'm worried for her. I think the effervescence of earlier interviews has deserted him and that's surely down to results. That and the realization of the true scale of the rebuilding job he's inherited.

yeah, its a totally different ballgame managing a club like Villa even when things are going well, no disrespect to Brentford. to be fair he's still talking a lot of sense imo. Obviously very disappointed in our continuing inability to defend.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on January 23, 2019, 11:17:46 AM
I still like him.  I really hope he can turn things round and be our manager for a few years to come.

I did note he mentioned the crowd a couple of times (it's different watching the game without sound & referring to all the moans and groans).  If Bruce had said that there would have been over analysis of every word saying he was having a go at the fans.  Not a criticism of Smith or defence of Bruce, just and observation.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on January 23, 2019, 11:52:35 AM
I do love this guy and how he talks about football minus the inevitable clichés and for ever stating the opposition was " set up to counter attack".

I liked how he talks about control and controling the game and performance.

There were touch of Bruce ism in there, but any manager / coach would be defending certain aspects  like the spin on 2 defeats in 13 for example.

At least Dean Smith is honest and accurate though.

Also from how I see it as a coach first and foremost he talks like a coach who wants to develop players.
And now an emphasis on younger players too

My shock , however it's a given reality , is that used terms along lines of driving up "(Andre)green market value" and that talk although annoying is at least honest , very Brentford and actually probably where villa are nowadays.

Developing youth is good for a number of reasons and one clearly seems to be from the business side.
As much as it is from footballing side.
Have valued assets and making money .
Bolasie for a variety of reasons has left as he is a cost and it's more cost effective to have Green.

Smith gave justification (perhaps orders) to note that we spend money on academy players development so intending to bring them in .

He also seems to love mentioning the behind closed doors matches which is good from a players point of view and hearing they have game time and giving 90 minute practice but it's not the exact same intensity.
What's good is he has methods and has disclosed what he likes to do

I really like his attitude and his determination and given time and right conditions will have his team playing how he wants and successful.

I like that the interview and previous interview seem to be put out to keep the fans onside, in the loop and justify what's going on .

What I do wonder are some intentions and as part of rebuild how it's being marketed .

Clearly he's a thinking guy and isn't just peddling out soon from the owners /CEO but I do see shades of that as he is a football coach first .

I do enjoy hearing him talk on any tactics , ideas and all the football stuff way more than anything else.
And he's insightful and clear and progressive in what he wants from his and our football team !

Up the villa
Come on Deano !
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on January 23, 2019, 12:45:12 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on January 23, 2019, 11:17:46 AM
I still like him.  I really hope he can turn things round and be our manager for a few years to come.

I did note he mentioned the crowd a couple of times (it's different watching the game without sound & referring to all the moans and groans).  If Bruce had said that there would have been over analysis of every word saying he was having a go at the fans.  Not a criticism of Smith or defence of Bruce, just and observation.

He has mentioned the crowd, but from a position of understanding, of being a fan himself. Bruce et al always thought they were above it and subject to criticism for being ex-Bluenose etc. rather than because it was a shit performance.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sid1964 on January 23, 2019, 12:53:01 PM
I read on the Mail website that Dean and CEO are to have a meeting about the players whose contracts are up at the end of the season, and whether to offer them a new deal!

Personally I hope that we have a real cull of any player out of contract and for me the lot can go.

Dean needs to get his own team around him.

I read on another Villa website (there are others) that a few of the older players are not happy with Dean's management and the style of play that he wants us to play.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on January 23, 2019, 01:01:21 PM
I think that some of the older players will simply not be capable of playing Smiths pressing game.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on January 23, 2019, 01:08:48 PM
The older, unhappy players are very welcome to eff off up to Hillsborough.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VILLA MOLE on January 23, 2019, 01:14:33 PM
Quote from: sid1964 on January 23, 2019, 12:53:01 PM
I read on the Mail website that Dean and CEO are to have a meeting about the players whose contracts are up at the end of the season, and whether to offer them a new deal!

Personally I hope that we have a real cull of any player out of contract and for me the lot can go.

Dean needs to get his own team around him.

I read on another Villa website (there are others) that a few of the older players are not happy with Dean's management and the style of play that he wants us to play.


I am pretty sure most will go , but he can not say that now
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on January 25, 2019, 07:54:44 PM
If we are "spinning plates"what type of plate/player are we spinning?
Bread and butter, a charger, dessert ( icing on the cake)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on February 01, 2019, 02:27:55 PM
Said in press conference played a practice  training match against Walsall giving Davis and  Jedinak some game time .
Also Courtney Hause got minutes which sounds like he still getting match fit

Its good Smith using an approach to have people match ready and Davis scored 2 goals.
Also to have  "squad pushing for places"

Still talking up capability of team performing and performing well to get results.
Smith indicated this by the amount of shots had in last match v Ipswich.

Also mentioned villa have "addressed balance
in defence " with signing of 2 left sided defenders
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 02, 2019, 04:57:43 PM
Not great again Dean. Are we going to start playing well at some point?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Axl Rose on February 02, 2019, 04:58:58 PM
I don't like the teams he is picking, the way his team are playing, nor the changes he is/isn't making.

I'm not a fan so far.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: wittonwarrior on February 02, 2019, 05:00:36 PM
I knew we would ruin him. Sheffield was united/Brentford or bust
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on February 02, 2019, 05:14:49 PM
Time for Smith to change things around as things are just not working out. The two wingers approach is pointless, neither play keys roles and it makes us extremely predictable and easy to defend against.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on February 02, 2019, 05:26:43 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on February 02, 2019, 05:14:49 PM
Time for Smith to change things around as things are just not working out. The two wingers approach is pointless, neither play keys roles and it makes us extremely predictable and easy to defend against.

I don't think we will see two wingers next season. It wouldn't shock me at all if we didn't see any as a regular approach other the odd game if the opponents have a weak FB or off the bench. I think it will be a more compact 4-5-1, 4-1-4-1 or 4-2-3-1. We're lumbered with wingers from Bruce and Tammy, while the beneficiary this season won't be here next  barring some miracle. And even then with him you don't absolutely need two wingers because of his excellent movement.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on February 02, 2019, 06:13:48 PM
Quote from: wittonwarrior on February 02, 2019, 05:00:36 PM
I knew we would ruin him. Sheffield was united/Brentford or bust

Three months in and you've written off his entire career. Way to go.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on February 02, 2019, 06:15:29 PM
I really really really want to believe in him I really do

but he just isn't learning, playing the same players every week in the same way,
He has to be better than this, he needs to try something new or he'l get himself bogged down
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 02, 2019, 06:16:29 PM
Who would you play?

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on February 02, 2019, 06:18:57 PM
Quote from: Ads on February 02, 2019, 06:16:29 PM
Who would you play?



I put my team down on this thread before the window, you will have to look for it if you want to know I can't be bothered to find it right now
it was a bit radical and full of youth but that's the way I would go

I still reckon by taking a few risks it would garner more than 9 points in 11 games

what have we got to lose
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 02, 2019, 06:22:13 PM
A chance of the Play Offs.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on February 02, 2019, 06:26:12 PM
Quote from: Ads on February 02, 2019, 06:22:13 PM
A chance of the Play Offs.

but we are not taking that chance with this group of players
you were there you must see that
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 02, 2019, 06:27:26 PM
We dropped points in my view. Significantly though, I saw us defend well for the first time all season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Richard E on February 02, 2019, 06:28:06 PM
Quote from: Ads on February 02, 2019, 06:27:26 PM
We dropped points in my view. Significantly though, I saw us defend well for the first time all season.
Typical that the first time in recorded human history we keep a clean sheet we also fail to score.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on February 02, 2019, 06:35:30 PM
Quote from: Ads on February 02, 2019, 06:27:26 PM
We dropped points in my view. Significantly though, I saw us defend well for the first time all season.

I agree,
 I only saw the first half and no player was having a complete nightmare from what I could see

Central pairing looked good, but the team laboured

I just don't go along with this 'he can't do anything else' it's his job to find something else


Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 02, 2019, 06:36:51 PM
The midfield isn't right. It's obvious, but with Jack and Landsbury out, we don't have the creative elements. Hourihane, BB, Whelan, Jedinak are not good enough for me.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave shelley on February 02, 2019, 06:38:57 PM
Quote from: Ads on February 02, 2019, 06:36:51 PM
The midfield isn't right. It's obvious, but with Jack and Landsbury out, we don't have the creative elements. Hourihane, Whelan, Jedinak are not good enough for me.

No, they're not.  Too slow by half.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on February 02, 2019, 06:42:35 PM
I am not suggesting he gets binned but if I am totally honest I haven't seen anywhere near enough on the pitch to make me feel this was a good appointment.

It's just not good enough and he has got to at least get us looking like we may improve pretty soon.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on February 02, 2019, 06:43:35 PM
I know he needs time but Tom Carroll really wasn’t the answer either.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on February 02, 2019, 06:45:15 PM
Comparison of Bruce and Smith's numbers (league matches only), for what's it's worth.

Bruce: 11-3-6-2-19-18  Points=15 from 33  PPG=1.36

Smith: 18-7-7-4-33-26  Points=28 from 54  PPG=1.56

Despite our defensive problems, Smith has had 6 clean sheets in 18 games, while Bruce had 1 in 11.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 02, 2019, 06:47:25 PM
I wasn't defending Bruce, far from it. I just think we've given away so many cheap goals, under both Bruce and Smith. Today we looked solid.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on February 02, 2019, 06:48:51 PM
Quote from: Newby on February 02, 2019, 06:43:35 PM
I know he needs time but Tom Carroll really wasn’t the answer either.

You can’t judge the kid on 15 minutes. He’s a beat and tidy player who likes to play get forward and can play a very decent through ball from some of the stuff I’ve seen of his time at Spurs. And in the end he’s a loan with an option to buy. He has to prove himself. I hope he gets his chance instead of Whelan on Friday.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KevinGage on February 02, 2019, 06:51:55 PM
Quote from: john e on February 02, 2019, 06:15:29 PM
I really really really want to believe in him I really do

but he just isn't learning, playing the same players every week in the same way,
He has to be better than this, he needs to try something new or he'l get himself bogged down

I'd agree for the most part.

But it's interesting that we went in for not one but two central midfielders on deadline day - and two who fit the profile of first team players, rather than squad depth options.

That suggests to me that both Whelan and Hourhane know they're on borrowed time.

Defence better today with Mings, but Reading offered nowt.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on February 02, 2019, 06:53:05 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on February 02, 2019, 06:42:35 PM
I am not suggesting he gets binned but if I am totally honest I haven't seen anywhere near enough on the pitch to make me feel this was a good appointment.

It's just not good enough and he has got to at least get us looking like we may improve pretty soon.

I think that's pretty much where I am.  Unimpressed, underwhelmed.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 02, 2019, 07:01:05 PM
How did Hourihane do?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Neil Hawkes on February 02, 2019, 07:03:05 PM
Since the start of the season the consensus has been our defence needs addressing, Smith has replaced the keeper and both centre backs with his own choices as soon as possible and today, apparently, we had a comfortable clean sheet for the first time since Axel injury, (Chester we know needs recuperation), I would be greatly surprised if we do not have 2 different fullbacks by next season.
Midfield is still dreadfully imbalanced and cannot be fully addressed until the summer with only one extra come in this window, and probably not for the position intended - Jack coming back will be a great boost but will not solve the problem entirely.
If our forward line misfires, we do not have the strength from midfield to make the difference, as witnessed today.
Time, not impatience, is required - in my opinion.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TheMalandro on February 02, 2019, 07:06:10 PM
Quote from: Ads on February 02, 2019, 06:47:25 PM
I wasn't defending Bruce, far from it. I just think we've given away so many cheap goals, under both Bruce and Smith. Today we looked solid.

By May, I’d be delighted if we are in the playoffs and look solid.
Let Grealish, McGinn and Abraham take care of the rest.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on February 02, 2019, 07:08:54 PM
By May if everyone we have are healthy I want to see genuine progress having been made. We took a gigantic leap forward when Dean Smith arrived and while I accept injuries have played a major part a very large step back in the last two months. I don’t think he has mDe full use of all of his resources. That’s on him. He doesn’t have to pick Whelan every week. He doesn’t have to play two wingers. Play two up front on occasion. He has options. Use them.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on February 02, 2019, 07:12:16 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on February 02, 2019, 07:08:54 PM
We took a gigantic leap forward when Dean Smith arrived

Did we?  What makes you say that?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Fred Crump on February 02, 2019, 07:13:39 PM
Quote from: john e on February 02, 2019, 06:35:30 PM
Quote from: Ads on February 02, 2019, 06:27:26 PM
We dropped points in my view. Significantly though, I saw us defend well for the first time all season.

I agree,
 I only saw the first half and no player was having a complete nightmare from what I could see

Central pairing looked good, but the team laboured

I just don't go along with this 'he can't do anything else' it's his job to find something else

A midfield 3 of N.O’Deal, U. Nicorn and W.Teo would absolutely guarantee promotion with 120 points. To suggest anything like the same tired old approach of picking players who actually exist, are fit and in the squad is just ignoring the will of 17 million Villa fans
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on February 02, 2019, 07:17:58 PM
To his credit he did look to bring on Davis but then SJM needed to come off so Jedi replaced him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 02, 2019, 07:29:47 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on February 02, 2019, 07:12:16 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on February 02, 2019, 07:08:54 PM
We took a gigantic leap forward when Dean Smith arrived

Did we?  What makes you say that?

We played the best football in 20 years probably.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on February 02, 2019, 07:34:36 PM
Quote from: Ads on February 02, 2019, 07:29:47 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on February 02, 2019, 07:12:16 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on February 02, 2019, 07:08:54 PM
We took a gigantic leap forward when Dean Smith arrived

Did we?  What makes you say that?

We played the best football in 20 years probably.
And now we're not.  He's got to do a massive amount more before I'd describe him as a gigantic leap forward.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on February 02, 2019, 07:35:36 PM
Would be amazed if we finished top 6. For the simple fact we've looked so unconvincing bar 4-5 games.

That said when you're just 4-5 points off with still 48 to play for it's silly to write anything off.

Does feel like the whole club seems to be mentally preparing for next season, easy to do now but we'd need to come out flying in August as we always seem undercooked at the start.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on February 02, 2019, 08:00:19 PM
Quote from: Fred Crump on February 02, 2019, 07:13:39 PM
Quote from: john e on February 02, 2019, 06:35:30 PM
Quote from: Ads on February 02, 2019, 06:27:26 PM
We dropped points in my view. Significantly though, I saw us defend well for the first time all season.

I agree,
 I only saw the first half and no player was having a complete nightmare from what I could see

Central pairing looked good, but the team laboured

I just don't go along with this 'he can't do anything else' it's his job to find something else

A midfield 3 of N.O’Deal, U. Nicorn and W.Teo would absolutely guarantee promotion with 120 points. To suggest anything like the same tired old approach of picking players who actually exist, are fit and in the squad is just ignoring the will of 17 million Villa fans

Fred, your an appeaser, there's nothing we can do, lets make the best of a bad lot

I'm a gambler, I think it's time to take a few risks and try something different

you might be right in the end, but let's face it we arnt going to lose much by being a bit braver

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Bad English on February 02, 2019, 08:19:23 PM
I can't understand why john e has not been given the Villa job.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on February 02, 2019, 08:54:20 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on February 02, 2019, 06:48:51 PM
Quote from: Newby on February 02, 2019, 06:43:35 PM
I know he needs time but Tom Carroll really wasn’t the answer either.

You can’t judge the kid on 15 minutes. He’s a beat and tidy player who likes to play get forward and can play a very decent through ball from some of the stuff I’ve seen of his time at Spurs. And in the end he’s a loan with an option to buy. He has to prove himself. I hope he gets his chance instead of Whelan on Friday.

I’m not suggesting anything based on 15 minutes ffs!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on February 02, 2019, 08:59:52 PM
Quote from: Bad English on February 02, 2019, 08:19:23 PM
I can't understand why john e has not been given the Villa job.
It's because a person with a single  letter surname can't be employed for  health and safety reasons.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on February 02, 2019, 09:03:28 PM
Quote from: olaftab on February 02, 2019, 08:59:52 PM
Quote from: Bad English on February 02, 2019, 08:19:23 PM
I can't understand why john e has not been given the Villa job.
It's because a person with a single  letter surname can't be employed for  health and safety reasons.

I often wondered why Mr T hadn’t applied for the Villa job.  He’d have been better than Bruce or RDM.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on February 02, 2019, 09:13:19 PM
Quote from: Newby on February 02, 2019, 09:03:28 PM
Quote from: olaftab on February 02, 2019, 08:59:52 PM
Quote from: Bad English on February 02, 2019, 08:19:23 PM
I can't understand why john e has not been given the Villa job.
It's because a person with a single  letter surname can't be employed for  health and safety reasons.

I often wondered why Mr T hadn’t applied for the Villa job.  He’d have been beefed than Bruce or RDM.


When Mr T was sounded out about the Villa job he said "I pity the fool that takes the job".
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on February 02, 2019, 09:34:37 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on February 02, 2019, 07:34:36 PM
Quote from: Ads on February 02, 2019, 07:29:47 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on February 02, 2019, 07:12:16 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on February 02, 2019, 07:08:54 PM
We took a gigantic leap forward when Dean Smith arrived

Did we?  What makes you say that?

We played the best football in 20 years probably.
And now we're not.  He's got to do a massive amount more before I'd describe him as a gigantic leap forward.

The football was outstanding. Let’s not rewrite history. But what has happened since is massively disappointing. Not just that it wasn’t maintained because much of that is down to injuries. But that Smith hasn’t been able to adjust with what he’s got and is now stuck in a rut. The team is back to playing Bruce ball. It’s hideous.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on February 02, 2019, 09:39:53 PM
The thing is, we have (or we had) Grealish. He's a staggeringly good player for the level that we're at. Smith got lucky when he came because Grealish was so good. He's unlucky now because Grealish isn't available. We all knew that there were massive problems with our team, as we saw again today. It takes more than three months to fix those problems.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on February 02, 2019, 09:41:13 PM
Quote from: Newby on February 02, 2019, 08:54:20 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on February 02, 2019, 06:48:51 PM
Quote from: Newby on February 02, 2019, 06:43:35 PM
I know he needs time but Tom Carroll really wasn’t the answer either.

You can’t judge the kid on 15 minutes. He’s a beat and tidy player who likes to play get forward and can play a very decent through ball from some of the stuff I’ve seen of his time at Spurs. And in the end he’s a loan with an option to buy. He has to prove himself. I hope he gets his chance instead of Whelan on Friday.

I’m not suggesting anything based on 15 minutes ffs!

So how on earth do you know if he is or isn’t the answer? And what do you mean by the answer anyway? We added a footballer who plays the game the right way or at least in the manner Smith would like us to play. You and I have no idea how effective he will be so stating what you did was a little premature.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on February 02, 2019, 09:42:03 PM
Physicality was required during the window.  That midfield remains lightweight. He may or may not turn out great and be part of the jigsaw that Dean Smith is putting together.  However, right now, if we want the play offs then Tom Carroll wasn’t the answer.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on February 02, 2019, 09:46:26 PM
When we tore Derby and Boro a new arse and we had a midfield three of Grealish, Hourihane and McGinn. Where was the physicality exactly?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on February 02, 2019, 09:46:58 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on February 02, 2019, 09:34:37 PM
The football was outstanding. Let’s not rewrite history. But what has happened since is massively disappointing. Not just that it wasn’t maintained because much of that is down to injuries. But that Smith hasn’t been able to adjust with what he’s got and is now stuck in a rut. The team is back to playing Bruce ball. It’s hideous.
I'm not trying to rewrite history: for a few games our football was excellent.  Since then we've basically done not much more than stand still.  Under Smith we've improved our points per game by 0.2.  I'm just questioning whether 'a gigantic leap forward' is perhaps a bit hyperbolic. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on February 02, 2019, 10:08:17 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on February 02, 2019, 09:46:58 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on February 02, 2019, 09:34:37 PM
The football was outstanding. Let’s not rewrite history. But what has happened since is massively disappointing. Not just that it wasn’t maintained because much of that is down to injuries. But that Smith hasn’t been able to adjust with what he’s got and is now stuck in a rut. The team is back to playing Bruce ball. It’s hideous.
I'm not trying to rewrite history: for a few games our football was excellent.  Since then we've basically done not much more than stand still.  Under Smith we've improved our points per game by 0.2.  I'm just questioning whether 'a gigantic leap forward' is perhaps a bit hyperbolic. 

Going from what Bruce served up at the end of his time to those games I cited was a gigantic leap forward. Look at the pre match thread for Derby and the genuine concern most had playing against what was an in form Derby side at their place to what transpired. Nobody could believe that this squad could do that. That’s what I meant. And to a slightly lesser extent for Boro but still there was immense pleasure and surprise how easily we dismantled what was the best defence in the league on their own patch.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on February 02, 2019, 10:11:55 PM
Fair enough.  I wouldn't phrase it that way myself, but I see where you're coming from.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on February 02, 2019, 10:48:59 PM
Quote from: Bad English on February 02, 2019, 08:19:23 PM
I can't understand why john e has not been given the Villa job.

Overlooked again
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rigadon on February 02, 2019, 11:01:34 PM
We look like an above average championship side without Grealish.  That's because we are an above average Championship side pitot Grealish. I don't know what that says about Dean Smith (or Steve Bruce). 

If we get him back in time we have a chance of going up via the playoffs. 

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rigadon on February 02, 2019, 11:03:23 PM
...
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on February 02, 2019, 11:27:43 PM
I firmly believe the problem is a lack of energy, we're trying to play the way Smith wants but the midfield (including the wingers) just haven't got the legs for it other than McGinn. When we had Grealish in there as well we were closer because he was occupying defenders and creating space but without him we're too easily contained. Whelan and Hourihane aren't terrible players and might do some good things but they slow the game down too much and are a big part of the problem.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 02, 2019, 11:29:43 PM
Quote from: paul_e on February 02, 2019, 11:27:43 PM
I firmly believe the problem is a lack of energy, we're trying to play the way Smith wants but the midfield (including the wingers) just haven't got the legs for it other than McGinn. When we had Grealish in there as well we were closer because he was occupying defenders and creating space but without him we're too easily contained. Whelan and Hourihane aren't terrible players and might do some good things but they slow the game down too much and are a big part of the problem.
You can get away with one of them (maybe) but the pair together is just plain daft..
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ROBBO on February 03, 2019, 12:16:15 AM
This is what I can't get my head around, Hourihane was the dominant player at his last club and ran the game for them, what happens to good players when they come to Villa? different managers different structure but they all seem to turn to shit.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chinchilla Bathhouse on February 03, 2019, 12:23:02 AM
Quote from: ROBBO on February 03, 2019, 12:16:15 AM
This is what I can't get my head around, Hourihane was the dominant player at his last club and ran the game for them, what happens to good players when they come to Villa? different managers different structure but they all seem to turn to shit.

Did he though? I've genuinely no idea, I never saw him play a full game before he joined us. I only saw him on the highlights, scoring free-kicks and from outside the box - so exactly what he's done for us. You could  just as easily edit a showreel of his goals here and he'd look dynamic. It's only when you watch a whole game or three that you see how little impact he has for ninety percent of the time.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sickbeggar on February 03, 2019, 01:00:03 AM
My biggest reservation with Smith (and he wasn't my choice) was i didn't think he'd get the time, and after the knicker wetting on the match thread tonight i'm still not convinced he'll get the leeway a "name" manager would. Bruce managed P9 W0 D2 L7 in his first season and he got barely a murmour of criticism so i reckon Smith deserves at least the same leeway

At the moment i see Villa as basically the final years of the Austin Princess. Its glory days are over and basically a lot of it is obsolete compared to the competition. The new designer has attempted a temporary face-lift so it stays competitive but its just seeing out the year till they launch the Austin Ambassador at the August Motor Show.

*runs off*
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: adrenachrome on February 03, 2019, 01:20:22 AM
Quote from: sickbeggar on February 03, 2019, 01:00:03 AM
My biggest reservation with Smith (and he wasn't my choice) was i didn't think he'd get the time, and after the knicker wetting on the match thread tonight i'm still not convinced he'll get the leeway a "name" manager would. Bruce managed P9 W0 D2 L7 in his first season and he got barely a murmour of criticism so i reckon Smith deserves at least the same leeway

At the moment i see Villa as basically the final years of the Austin Princess. Its glory days are over and basically a lot of it is obsolete compared to the competition. The new designer has attempted a temporary face-lift so it stays competitive but its just seeing out the year till they launch the Austin Ambassador at the August Motor Show.

*runs off*

I agree with you in principle, but your use of the term "knicker wetting" is likely to draw opprobrium from those with a different view on proceedings.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on February 03, 2019, 01:25:04 AM
Quote from: sickbeggar on February 03, 2019, 01:00:03 AM
Bruce managed P9 W0 D2 L7 in his first season and he got barely a murmour of criticism

The 'Bruce Out' thread was started straight after the 8th of those games. He was getting plenty of stick at the time.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: adrenachrome on February 03, 2019, 01:49:38 AM
Quote from: Chinchilla Bathhouse on February 03, 2019, 12:23:02 AM
Quote from: ROBBO on February 03, 2019, 12:16:15 AM
This is what I can't get my head around, Hourihane was the dominant player at his last club and ran the game for them, what happens to good players when they come to Villa? different managers different structure but they all seem to turn to shit.

Did he though? I've genuinely no idea, I never saw him play a full game before he joined us. I only saw him on the highlights, scoring free-kicks and from outside the box - so exactly what he's done for us. You could  just as easily edit a showreel of his goals here and he'd look dynamic. It's only when you watch a whole game or three that you see how little impact he has for ninety percent of the time.

Hard to imagine now, but he really was.

Conor Hourihane at heart of Barnsley’s rise from bottom of table to Wembley (https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/may/28/conor-hourihane-barnsley-millwall-league-one-play-off-final)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on February 03, 2019, 01:59:00 AM
Quote from: adrenachrome on February 03, 2019, 01:49:38 AM
Quote from: Chinchilla Bathhouse on February 03, 2019, 12:23:02 AM
Quote from: ROBBO on February 03, 2019, 12:16:15 AM
This is what I can't get my head around, Hourihane was the dominant player at his last club and ran the game for them, what happens to good players when they come to Villa? different managers different structure but they all seem to turn to shit.

Did he though? I've genuinely no idea, I never saw him play a full game before he joined us. I only saw him on the highlights, scoring free-kicks and from outside the box - so exactly what he's done for us. You could  just as easily edit a showreel of his goals here and he'd look dynamic. It's only when you watch a whole game or three that you see how little impact he has for ninety percent of the time.

Hard to imagine now, but he really was.

Conor Hourihane at heart of Barnsley’s rise from bottom of table to Wembley (https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/may/28/conor-hourihane-barnsley-millwall-league-one-play-off-final)

I remember the game against Leeds before he joined us: what a player and leader.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on February 03, 2019, 07:28:11 AM
Quote from: sickbeggar on February 03, 2019, 01:00:03 AM
My biggest reservation with Smith (and he wasn't my choice) was i didn't think he'd get the time, and after the knicker wetting on the match thread tonight i'm still not convinced he'll get the leeway a "name" manager would. Bruce managed P9 W0 D2 L7 in his first season and he got barely a murmour of criticism so i reckon Smith deserves at least the same leeway

At the moment i see Villa as basically the final years of the Austin Princess. Its glory days are over and basically a lot of it is obsolete compared to the competition. The new designer has attempted a temporary face-lift so it stays competitive but its just seeing out the year till they launch the Austin Ambassador at the August Motor Show.

*runs off*
All well and good but bringing a new manager in when we did was always likely to be a poison chalice, particularly with the squad left behind by the previous idiot. What is unexplained for me is the dramatic shift in form after the Bitters game: losing JG is undoubtedly part of it, but that cannot be the full story.
I can only rationalise it by thinking that this new management team is asking the players to do things so different to their norm (outside their comfort zone) that it has had a big negative impact. Which suggests that we’re only really going to see the Smith impact after the close-season transfers come in.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Fred Crump on February 03, 2019, 07:50:05 AM
Quote from: sickbeggar on February 03, 2019, 01:00:03 AM
My biggest reservation with Smith (and he wasn't my choice) was i didn't think he'd get the time, and after the knicker wetting on the match thread tonight i'm still not convinced he'll get the leeway a "name" manager would. Bruce managed P9 W0 D2 L7 in his first season and he got barely a murmour of criticism so i reckon Smith deserves at least the same leeway

At the moment i see Villa as basically the final years of the Austin Princess. Its glory days are over and basically a lot of it is obsolete compared to the competition. The new designer has attempted a temporary face-lift so it stays competitive but its just seeing out the year till they launch the Austin Ambassador at the August Motor Show.

*runs off*

And so you should lol ! Austin Ambassador indeed !
It was truly the (non) living embodiment of the saying ‘you can’t polish a turd’. In fact I seem to remember it was known as the ‘flying turd’.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on February 03, 2019, 07:53:25 AM
BL analogies are more often than not going to backfire.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Fred Crump on February 03, 2019, 08:07:45 AM
While we are in vintage car analogy mode , I give you Jack Grealish and the Triumph Stag. Let itself down badly in the early years but matured into a highly desirable asset. Bags of style, a hit with the ladies and  much coveted by the neighbours. Could turn in some eye catching performances and on its day was approaching world class. Never really stood up to comparison against the big boys though and possibly overrated by its fanatical devotees. Ultimately broke down too often for lengthy periods and never really contributed as much as it promised.
* runs off and goes into hiding with sickbeggar*
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 03, 2019, 08:33:03 AM
Yeah maybe work on that analogy. Grealish doesn't co tribute enough? Have you seen us post Albion?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 03, 2019, 08:48:32 AM
He’s starting to show some proper Bruce delusion. “Our performances our back to where they were.”

Are they bollocks. 15 minutes aside, yesterday was a turd of a game.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 03, 2019, 08:52:00 AM
I felt we were very good second half with work rate and pressing. But we were without ideas.

Adomah, Whelan and Hourihane consistently underwhelm. So many passengers in the squad. We have 10 central midfielders it's been said, but how many can create?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on February 03, 2019, 08:56:39 AM
Quote from: Mister E on February 03, 2019, 07:28:11 AM
Quote from: sickbeggar on February 03, 2019, 01:00:03 AM
My biggest reservation with Smith (and he wasn't my choice) was i didn't think he'd get the time, and after the knicker wetting on the match thread tonight i'm still not convinced he'll get the leeway a "name" manager would. Bruce managed P9 W0 D2 L7 in his first season and he got barely a murmour of criticism so i reckon Smith deserves at least the same leeway

At the moment i see Villa as basically the final years of the Austin Princess. Its glory days are over and basically a lot of it is obsolete compared to the competition. The new designer has attempted a temporary face-lift so it stays competitive but its just seeing out the year till they launch the Austin Ambassador at the August Motor Show.

*runs off*
All well and good but bringing a new manager in when we did was always likely to be a poison chalice, particularly with the squad left behind by the previous idiot. What is unexplained for me is the dramatic shift in form after the Bitters game: losing JG is undoubtedly part of it, but that cannot be the full story.
I can only rationalise it by thinking that this new management team is asking the players to do things so different to their norm (outside their comfort zone) that it has had a big negative impact. Which suggests that we’re only really going to see the Smith impact after the close-season transfers come in.
My thoughts exactly. We were brilliant at derby & boro. We were mugged by the boggies after battering them for an hour. Then theres the free flowing football with abject defending for the forest game. I just dont understand wtf has happened to them
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 03, 2019, 08:58:18 AM
Glenn Whelan has entered the fray. Slowing everything down. Hourihane has become the fulcrum and he can't do it. We've put it all on McGinn.

Then the quality out wide has suffered as we persist with Adomah, whose been woefully out of form since February 2018.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Fred Crump on February 03, 2019, 09:09:01 AM
Quote from: Ads on February 03, 2019, 08:33:03 AM
Yeah maybe work on that analogy. Grealish doesn't co tribute enough? Have you seen us post Albion?
I suppose the obvious one is that the wheels have completely come off since then :)
Seriously though, I  can’t  wait for him to be back, he always made a difference but I think more so now than ever as he is integral to how Smith wants us to play.  Also , if McGinn doesn’t get some support soon he’s going to be completely shagged out.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on February 03, 2019, 09:10:21 AM
I think the football we want to see is the football Smith wants to play

this is why i still have high hopes, he came with a rep for a certain style that had been successful at a smaller club,
so we must believe that is still the direction he wants to go in

there was nothing in any of the previous Bruce or Mcliesh teams that had me wanting to see that replicated
although both had promotion success followed by relegation they weren’t teams you looked at and thought
 ‘yes I wouldn’t mind a bit if that at VP’

But we did with Smith after watching his Brentford play a few times

anyway I know what I’m trying to say but probably not putting it very well
but Smiths past is a big positive for me because that is who he is
He now has to transport it to a bigger stage, let’s hope he can
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Fred Crump on February 03, 2019, 09:14:34 AM
Quote from: Ads on February 03, 2019, 08:58:18 AM
Glenn Whelan has entered the fray. Slowing everything down. Hourihane has become the fulcrum and he can't do it. We've put it all on McGinn.

Then the quality out wide has suffered as we persist with Adomah, whose been woefully out of form since February 2018.

This. Spot on.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chinchilla Bathhouse on February 03, 2019, 09:41:44 AM
Quote from: john e on February 03, 2019, 09:10:21 AM
I think the football we want to see is the football Smith wants to play

this is why i still have high hopes, he came with a rep for a certain style that had been successful at a smaller club,
so we must believe that is still the direction he wants to go in

there was nothing in any of the previous Bruce or Mcliesh teams that had me wanting to see that replicated
although both had promotion success followed by relegation they weren’t teams you looked at and thought
 ‘yes I wouldn’t mind a bit if that at VP’

But we did with Smith after watching his Brentford play a few times

anyway I know what I’m trying to say but probably not putting it very well
but Smiths past is a big positive for me because that is who he is
He now has to transport it to a bigger stage, let’s hope he can

You've put that well, I quite agree. I think that's why the recent slump has been such a huge disappointment and a worry, because for whatever reason we've stopped playing the football he's known for and reverted to, well, I don't know what you'd call it but it's disturbingly familiar. It's as if he's lost all confidence in the style that served him well and that made him an attractive appointment. I too am hoping that he can find that again, because we know how good his teams can be when he backs himself.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: rougegorge on February 03, 2019, 09:42:52 AM
Quote from: Fred Crump on February 03, 2019, 09:14:34 AM
Quote from: Ads on February 03, 2019, 08:58:18 AM
Glenn Whelan has entered the fray. Slowing everything down. Hourihane has become the fulcrum and he can't do it. We've put it all on McGinn.

Then the quality out wide has suffered as we persist with Adomah, whose been woefully out of form since February 2018.

This. Spot on.
I agree completely.

However, we don't have to play Whelan or Adomah and certainly not Hourihane where he's playing. Any of his merits are as an attacking player, so we shouldn't be playing him where he currently is.

The management team obviously know more about formations and what goes on in training, but I don't get it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 03, 2019, 09:43:18 AM
Reading were absolute garbage yesterday, and I think they've won once in something like 15 games, yet Smith was talking them up as being one of the better teams.

Anyway, why is he persevering with Adomah?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on February 03, 2019, 10:17:28 AM
what an indictment it is on our club that Smith can play exciting fast paced football on a shoestring at Brentford but not here, despite the tens of millions of pounds spent since relegated. Our shit's well and truly fucked up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on February 03, 2019, 10:22:03 AM
Well now Bolasie has gone, we will probably see a lot more of Adomah and El Ghazi. I'd personally bring Elmo back in at right back as an extra option who can at least cross the ball.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chinchilla Bathhouse on February 03, 2019, 10:32:45 AM
But Elmo can't defend, he gifts a goal a game.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on February 03, 2019, 10:35:21 AM
Quote from: Chinchilla Bathhouse on February 03, 2019, 10:32:45 AM
But Elmo can't defend, he gifts a goal a game.

I'm not sure about him gifting a goal a game. He had that run of games a while back where he was poor but he's not alone in that. Generally overall, he's not let us down in the time he's been here.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brassneck on February 03, 2019, 10:45:11 AM
Quote from: Clampy on February 03, 2019, 10:35:21 AM
Quote from: Chinchilla Bathhouse on February 03, 2019, 10:32:45 AM
But Elmo can't defend, he gifts a goal a game.

I'm not sure about him gifting a goal a game. He had that run of games a while back where he was poor but he's not alone in that. Generally overall, he's not let us down in the time he's been here.

I agree Clampy.

The last few games that Elmo played were disasters, Leeds at home springs to mind but prior to that run (of 3, maybe 4 games), Elmo was a steady Eddie, putting in 7 out of 10 performances regularly.

Not much difference between Elmo & Hutton for me.  I'd probably prefer Elmo.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on February 03, 2019, 10:58:09 AM
Potato, potato. All our players have never been all that good, at any point, ever. Flashes, spells, maybe a "solid" season here and there. They're certainly not going to improve once they're the other side of thirty.

I wouldn't pick any of the >30s if there was much choice.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on February 03, 2019, 11:07:12 AM
I think we need to look at a different formation with Grealish out. The wide men clearly aren't working and we are struggling to keep the ball in the middle. Hourihane isn't getting in positions that he is useful at.

Maybe McGinn and Hourihane swapping roles would help and go two up top.

---------Kalinic
Elmo, Elphick, Mings, Hutton
--------Jedinak
Carroll, McGinn
------Hourihane
Kodjia/Davis, Abraham
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brassneck on February 03, 2019, 11:41:00 AM
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on February 03, 2019, 10:58:09 AM
Potato, potato. All our players have never been all that good, at any point, ever. Flashes, spells, maybe a "solid" season here and there. They're certainly not going to improve once they're the other side of thirty.

I wouldn't pick any of the >30s if there was much choice.

That's what £1 - £3 million buys you.  Many Championship sides can't even afford that.

RB, it is a choice of Hutton or Elmo.  Some would go Hutton, some would go Elmo.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on February 03, 2019, 11:58:52 AM
Smith needs time - fans need to be patient - but I sense impatience creeping in. I also detect a slight change in Smith's demeanour already - is he feeling the pressure or is he facing resistance from some of the squad - it must be difficult motivating players who know they are leaving in May - ie no matter how well they play they don't fit Smith's pattern of play -after the on going demise of the club on and off the pitch over some years it will take come considerable time to get back the the top flight - unfortunately in the world we now live in everything has to be immediate/  instant . Adding to that the over reliance on one player and we are doomed to fail - the club needs to undertake a massive rebuild this summer and develop a plan and strategy that  can see us go forward with confidence and excitement
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on February 03, 2019, 12:02:00 PM
Isn't Jack supposed to be back next game?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AlexAlexCropley on February 03, 2019, 12:33:02 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on February 03, 2019, 12:02:00 PM
Isn't Jack supposed to be back next game?
Sheffield Utd Friday? Where you got this?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sickbeggar on February 03, 2019, 12:33:25 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on February 03, 2019, 01:25:04 AM
Quote from: sickbeggar on February 03, 2019, 01:00:03 AM
Bruce managed P9 W0 D2 L7 in his first season and he got barely a murmour of criticism

The 'Bruce Out' thread was started straight after the 8th of those games. He was getting plenty of stick at the time.

Mebbe, but I seem to remember it started as titled "Bruce out?" so not as definite as it looks now. Besides, you still have to look at Smith picking up 10 points in the last 8 games compared to Bruce's  2 points, so you'd have to say it was fair comment with Bruce especially as he got the job because he was going to get us up that season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on February 03, 2019, 12:39:25 PM
Smith would earn his week’s wages if he can find a way to play Hourihane to his strengths. At moment he slows the whole game down, negating the efforts of Abraham, McGinn and others to create space.
Adomah has - far too frequently - played without thought and guile: he also slows down the game.
And, we have to find a formula which excludes Hutton ... not easy with the limited choice of FB currently.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on February 03, 2019, 12:41:34 PM
I’d be inclined to try El Ghazi behind a front two, in a team without wingers. Perhaps a midfield 3 of McGinn, Carroll and Jedi.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 03, 2019, 12:42:03 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on February 03, 2019, 12:02:00 PM
Isn't Jack supposed to be back next game?

That's what was reported back in mid-January.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on February 03, 2019, 12:46:08 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on February 02, 2019, 09:46:26 PM
When we tore Derby and Boro a new arse and we had a midfield three of Grealish, Hourihane and McGinn. Where was the physicality exactly?

Putting our chances away might help, new manager bounce, a more confident side. Who knows? But, that all seems to have stopped and many people were saying we needed upgrades on the likes of Whelan and Jedinak.  Whilst Carroll does not appear to be what we needed, Smith tried for Fer and sadly couldn’t complete the deal. Carroll May we be part of the longer term strategy.  Yes, we battered Derby and Boro but couldn’t sustain it. I would like to know why.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 03, 2019, 12:48:04 PM
Jack Grealish.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on February 03, 2019, 12:53:52 PM
We are so slow getting the ball out wide nowadays. You go back to our golden run in November and December and Bolasie and El Ghazi were destroying full backs around that time.

Both gone off the boil spectacularly and you also have Albert in really poor form.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chris Smith on February 03, 2019, 12:54:13 PM
Quote from: Newby on February 03, 2019, 12:46:08 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on February 02, 2019, 09:46:26 PM
When we tore Derby and Boro a new arse and we had a midfield three of Grealish, Hourihane and McGinn. Where was the physicality exactly?

Putting our chances away might help, new manager bounce, a more confident side. Who knows? But, that all seems to have stopped and many people were saying we needed upgrades on the likes of Whelan and Jedinak.  Whilst Carroll does not appear to be what we needed, Smith tried for Fer and sadly couldn’t complete the deal. Carroll May we be part of the longer term strategy.  Yes, we battered Derby and Boro but couldn’t sustain it. I would like to know why.

I think it was down to losing Grealish and Tuanzebe at the same time. Our best defender and our most creative midfielder, we have looked unbalanced ever since. Mings coming in and Grealish returning will hopefully change things. It’s a tight division and the margins are slim and a 5% improvement or deterioration can make a difference.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sickbeggar on February 03, 2019, 12:58:36 PM
Quote from: Chris Smith on February 03, 2019, 12:54:13 PM
Quote from: Newby on February 03, 2019, 12:46:08 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on February 02, 2019, 09:46:26 PM
When we tore Derby and Boro a new arse and we had a midfield three of Grealish, Hourihane and McGinn. Where was the physicality exactly?

Putting our chances away might help, new manager bounce, a more confident side. Who knows? But, that all seems to have stopped and many people were saying we needed upgrades on the likes of Whelan and Jedinak.  Whilst Carroll does not appear to be what we needed, Smith tried for Fer and sadly couldn’t complete the deal. Carroll May we be part of the longer term strategy.  Yes, we battered Derby and Boro but couldn’t sustain it. I would like to know why.

I think it was down to losing Grealish and Tuanzebe at the same time. Our best defender and our most creative midfielder, we have looked unbalanced ever since. Mings coming in and Grealish returning will hopefully change things. It’s a tight division and the margins are slim and a 5% improvement or deterioration can make a difference.

that's it for me. Even when we were winning we were still letting in a shitload of goals . Something had to give and it was squad strength.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on February 03, 2019, 02:16:31 PM
Quote from: Mister E on February 03, 2019, 12:41:34 PM
I’d be inclined to try El Ghazi behind a front two, in a team without wingers. Perhaps a midfield 3 of McGinn, Carroll and Jedi.

With the current players available I'd be tempted to push McGinn a bit deeper and play Kodjia and El Ghazi tucked in on either side behind Tammy. If El Gahzi still isn't having an impact we could swap davis in and have tammy and kodjia play off him.

It'd require the midfield 3 to help the full backs at times though and we'd really need to improve our possession, which is where Carroll becomes an asset.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on February 03, 2019, 02:17:09 PM
Quote from: mr underhill on February 03, 2019, 10:17:28 AM
what an indictment it is on our club that Smith can play exciting fast paced football on a shoestring at Brentford but not here, despite the tens of millions of pounds spent since relegated. Our shit's well and truly fucked up.

I’m pretty sure though he didn’t just turn up at Brentford and had them playing that way. He would have gone through much the same process as he is with us. Just that being at Villa the focus is a thousand times greater. Every detail is scrutinized and he can’t just do it under the radar. So the good, bad and as we are seeing now the ugly are being played out very publicly.

Also at Brentford he was likely under very different parameters define success. For him I have no doubt it is promotion to the PL by the end of next season. That’s a lot more to deal with.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on February 03, 2019, 03:15:37 PM
Quote from: paul_e on February 03, 2019, 02:16:31 PM
Quote from: Mister E on February 03, 2019, 12:41:34 PM
I’d be inclined to try El Ghazi behind a front two, in a team without wingers. Perhaps a midfield 3 of McGinn, Carroll and Jedi.

With the current players available I'd be tempted to push McGinn a bit deeper and play Kodjia and El Ghazi tucked in on either side behind Tammy. If El Gahzi still isn't having an impact we could swap davis in and have tammy and kodjia play off him.

It'd require the midfield 3 to help the full backs at times though and we'd really need to improve our possession, which is where Carroll becomes an asset.
Yes. I’d really like to see Abraham and Davis play as a front 2. El Ghazi (whilst JG is out) behind would provide a more flexible attacking approach. And you’re right that the MF 3 would need to be much more mobile than the current selections are.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Allan C on February 03, 2019, 03:21:02 PM
Quote from: sickbeggar on February 03, 2019, 12:33:25 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on February 03, 2019, 01:25:04 AM
Quote from: sickbeggar on February 03, 2019, 01:00:03 AM
Bruce managed P9 W0 D2 L7 in his first season and he got barely a murmour of criticism

The 'Bruce Out' thread was started straight after the 8th of those games. He was getting plenty of stick at the time.

Mebbe, but I seem to remember it started as titled "Bruce out?" so not as definite as it looks now. Besides, you still have to look at Smith picking up 10 points in the last 8 games compared to Bruce's  2 points, so you'd have to say it was fair comment with Bruce especially as he got the job because he was going to get us up that season.
Additionally Bruce came to us with a reputation for outdated poor football which a percentage of fans were willing to accept because he was a “promotion expert” but many were never going accept because we didn’t want to us playing that way. Hence the Bruce Out thread. Smith has come with a reputation for the exact opposite of Bruce
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villa75 on February 03, 2019, 03:50:39 PM
Quote from: ROBBO on February 03, 2019, 12:16:15 AM
This is what I can't get my head around, Hourihane was the dominant player at his last club and ran the game for them, what happens to good players when they come to Villa? different managers different structure but they all seem to turn to shit.

Near enough every thread you go on, people are talking about getting rid of players like Hourihane and Adomah. Like we're going to get much better come in!

These are two good players at this level. They've both shown it. The manager's not getting the best out of them, for whatever reason, so blame him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on February 03, 2019, 04:27:17 PM
Quote from: Allan C on February 03, 2019, 03:21:02 PM
Quote from: sickbeggar on February 03, 2019, 12:33:25 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on February 03, 2019, 01:25:04 AM
Quote from: sickbeggar on February 03, 2019, 01:00:03 AM
Bruce managed P9 W0 D2 L7 in his first season and he got barely a murmour of criticism

The 'Bruce Out' thread was started straight after the 8th of those games. He was getting plenty of stick at the time.

Mebbe, but I seem to remember it started as titled "Bruce out?" so not as definite as it looks now. Besides, you still have to look at Smith picking up 10 points in the last 8 games compared to Bruce's  2 points, so you'd have to say it was fair comment with Bruce especially as he got the job because he was going to get us up that season.
Additionally Bruce came to us with a reputation for outdated poor football which a percentage of fans were willing to accept because he was a “promotion expert” but many were never going accept because we didn’t want to us playing that way. Hence the Bruce Out thread. Smith has come with a reputation for the exact opposite of Bruce

Spot on , I was in the second group
Smith now needs to start showing us who he is and what he can do

 just saying if he had better players he would get better results is pretty ridiculous
that would be the same for anyone

he needs to be true to the principles that got him here and not turn into every other British dinosaur manager
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on February 03, 2019, 04:29:49 PM
Well said.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on February 03, 2019, 04:33:51 PM
He’s using the same tactic week after week. Albert has lost whatever magic he had last season. Kodjia isn’t a winger yet he plays him as one when he gets a game. Whelan is awful. Why not try Tammy and Kodjia up front with only El Ghazi as the wide option? Something other than the same system week after week.

I accept Smith doesn’t have “his” players yet and that will take time. I accept he’s had bad luck with injuries. But he’s being paid a lot to adapt and adjust and he’s not doing it. That’s entirely on him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TheMalandro on February 03, 2019, 04:39:41 PM
It’s not really desirable but I’d be playing Elmo on the right wing at the moment, at least he can put a decent crosss in.
Albert and El Ghazi look like creating nothing.

I’m amazed at how poor Adomah has been.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on February 03, 2019, 04:39:56 PM
his team selections and tactics have become as rigid as Bruce's were. Time to mix it up Dean, starting  Friday.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 03, 2019, 04:45:27 PM
Quote from: TheMalandro on February 03, 2019, 04:39:41 PM
It’s not really desirable but I’d be playing Elmo on the right wing at the moment, at least he can put a decent crosss in.
Albert and El Ghazi look like creating nothing.

I’m amazed at how poor Adomah has been.
For a long time now, he looks like he does not give a fuck.
He really needs moving on.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AVH87 on February 03, 2019, 04:55:00 PM
What's frustrating me on the really poor run we are on is Smith not trying something different. Exactly the same formation every week, I expected him to be more innovative than Bruce and managers of that ilk.

I also think some of his selections and subs have shown a bit of a fear of losing rather than going all out for the win. Clearly Kodjia is more of a goal threat than Adomah but gets overlooked again yesterday. Jedinak on for McGinn at 0-0 with 10 mins left including the lengthy stoppage time, I know there aren't loads of options but surely if you are going all out to win it's Davis?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 03, 2019, 04:56:10 PM
It's not been the same formation. We've played 4231 the past two games.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 03, 2019, 04:56:19 PM
I agree I just hope that fear is not getting the better of him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AVH87 on February 03, 2019, 04:58:22 PM
Quote from: TheMalandro on February 03, 2019, 04:39:41 PM
It’s not really desirable but I’d be playing Elmo on the right wing at the moment, at least he can put a decent crosss in.
Albert and El Ghazi look like creating nothing.

I’m amazed at how poor Adomah has been.

I'm surprised at how many people lump ElGhazy in the same category as Adomah.

Tammy had two great chances yesterday, both courtesy of ElGhazy.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AVH87 on February 03, 2019, 05:02:29 PM
Quote from: Ads on February 03, 2019, 04:56:10 PM
It's not been the same formation. We've played 4231 the past two games.

I've only seen the highlights yesterday but the web is saying a 4-1-4-1 rather than the usual 4-3-3 but I can't see such a subtle change making the difference. Needs to be braver.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 03, 2019, 05:04:05 PM
We've had Hourihane deep and McGinn advanced.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 03, 2019, 06:14:25 PM
Quote from: Ads on February 03, 2019, 05:04:05 PM
We've had Hourihane deep and McGinn advanced.



It doesn't really matter where you play Hourihane though does it?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 03, 2019, 06:49:15 PM
He seems stuck on starting Hourihane and Albert.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on February 03, 2019, 07:58:24 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 03, 2019, 06:49:15 PM
He seems stuck on starting Hourihane and Albert.

Who do you play instead?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on February 03, 2019, 08:29:51 PM
Quote from: Clampy on February 03, 2019, 07:58:24 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 03, 2019, 06:49:15 PM
He seems stuck on starting Hourihane and Albert.

Who do you play instead?
Ain’t this the same fella who has notched a fair few goals and many assists?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: wittonwarrior on February 03, 2019, 08:40:53 PM
I think its fair to say Deano has a free hand this season, the next window however is crucial as it will define where we are heading and it could go either way.  Have written this season off.  I am 100% behind Dean Smith but am realistic to know he doesn't have a  5 year  window like a certain former manager thinks he's got at Sheff Wed to get things right.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Richard E on February 03, 2019, 08:45:40 PM
Quote from: Clampy on February 03, 2019, 07:58:24 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 03, 2019, 06:49:15 PM
He seems stuck on starting Hourihane and Albert.

Who do you play instead?

Could try Green instead of Albert, although personally I’m not convinced that’s an upgrade.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on February 03, 2019, 08:48:39 PM
Green isn’t fit so it’s moot. He doesn’t have to play two wingers. That would be a start. Play Kodjia up front
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: clash city rocker on February 03, 2019, 09:12:27 PM
It will be hard to compare Smith and Bruce as Smith will never have as much money to spunk up the wall that Bruce did.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: DeeBoy1 on February 04, 2019, 02:29:30 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on February 03, 2019, 12:53:52 PM
We are so slow getting the ball out wide nowadays. You go back to our golden run in November and December and Bolasie and El Ghazi were destroying full backs around that time.

Both gone off the boil spectacularly and you also have Albert in really poor form.

I think the loss of Axel has been quite under estimated. He carried the ball out from the back into midfield which immediately drew in a player, which in turn creates space and disrupts the oppo's formation. By losing that ball carrying defender we have in essence lost that extra man which in turn makes it much harder for the wingers to make space and for Conor to get on the half turn and create assists.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dcdavecollett on February 04, 2019, 02:57:10 PM
Spot on.

In losing Axel and JG we have lost the two best, and most consistent, players in the squad.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 04, 2019, 03:21:54 PM
Quote from: Ian J on February 03, 2019, 08:29:51 PM
Quote from: Clampy on February 03, 2019, 07:58:24 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 03, 2019, 06:49:15 PM
He seems stuck on starting Hourihane and Albert.

Who do you play instead?
Ain’t this the same fella who has notched a fair few goals and many assists?
No where near enough to justify carrying the passenger that he is.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chris Smith on February 04, 2019, 04:25:56 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 04, 2019, 03:21:54 PM
Quote from: Ian J on February 03, 2019, 08:29:51 PM
Quote from: Clampy on February 03, 2019, 07:58:24 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 03, 2019, 06:49:15 PM
He seems stuck on starting Hourihane and Albert.

Who do you play instead?
Ain’t this the same fella who has notched a fair few goals and many assists?
No where near enough to justify carrying the passenger that he is.

Not sure I follow the logic. If he is scoring and creating then he is clearly not a passenger. Until we have another player to do that and have with an improved all round game it’s not hard to see why he gets picked.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 04, 2019, 04:29:19 PM
I think we need to get back to 4-1-4-1 and take risks in committing men forward again. We need 4 or 5 hitting the box again.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 04, 2019, 08:20:07 PM
Quote from: Chris Smith on February 04, 2019, 04:25:56 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 04, 2019, 03:21:54 PM
Quote from: Ian J on February 03, 2019, 08:29:51 PM
Quote from: Clampy on February 03, 2019, 07:58:24 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 03, 2019, 06:49:15 PM
He seems stuck on starting Hourihane and Albert.

Who do you play instead?
Ain’t this the same fella who has notched a fair few goals and many assists?
No where near enough to justify carrying the passenger that he is.

Not sure I follow the logic. If he is scoring and creating then he is clearly not a passenger. Until we have another player to do that and have with an improved all round game it’s not hard to see why he gets picked.
He is a passenger because he fails to impact in any way most the games he plays, he can not tackle , close down, move the ball quickly, win it in the air or do anything except the occasional assist and rare goal.
Iggy POP wrote a song about it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on February 04, 2019, 08:23:47 PM
But who do you pick instead?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: old man villa fan on February 04, 2019, 08:30:41 PM
Quote from: Chris Smith on February 04, 2019, 04:25:56 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 04, 2019, 03:21:54 PM
Quote from: Ian J on February 03, 2019, 08:29:51 PM
Quote from: Clampy on February 03, 2019, 07:58:24 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 03, 2019, 06:49:15 PM
He seems stuck on starting Hourihane and Albert.

Who do you play instead?
Ain’t this the same fella who has notched a fair few goals and many assists?
No where near enough to justify carrying the passenger that he is.

Not sure I follow the logic. If he is scoring and creating then he is clearly not a passenger. Until we have another player to do that and have with an improved all round game it’s not hard to see why he gets picked.

If he was an inside forward 40 or 50 years ago, fair enough but his primary purpose is to control the middle of the park.  If our midfield dominated more, I think we would see our forward players scoring more goals.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: stuart445 on February 04, 2019, 10:52:10 PM
Quote from: wittonwarrior on February 03, 2019, 08:40:53 PM
I think its fair to say Deano has a free hand this season, the next window however is crucial as it will define where we are heading and it could go either way.  Have written this season off.  I am 100% behind Dean Smith but am realistic to know he doesn't have a  5 year  window like a certain former manager thinks he's got at Sheff Wed to get things right.

Nope Smith doesn't get a free hand this season Bruce wasn't allowed to have one (by some) so Smith isn't allowed one either.

Thing that is important to point out is if we don't go up next season we'll have no Abraham, no Grealish and most likely no McGinn so next season. So all this blaming the bad run on Grealish being injured just shows how vital promotion is this season as we'll have no Grealish next season if we fail.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on February 04, 2019, 11:24:32 PM
If he chooses to give Smith a free hit this season then that is his choice, you coming on here telling people that he cant have a free hit because Bruce didn't isn't going to change his views.
Smith has a free hit from me aswell for the rest of this season, as would any manager that has come in under the same circumstances.
I had no intentions of giving Bruce a free hit, he was brought in as the promotion expert with that being the only thing on which he would be judged. He failed and left us in a mess.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: GordonCowansisthegreatest on February 04, 2019, 11:25:29 PM
Quote from: stuart445 on February 04, 2019, 10:52:10 PM
Quote from: wittonwarrior on February 03, 2019, 08:40:53 PM
I think its fair to say Deano has a free hand this season, the next window however is crucial as it will define where we are heading and it could go either way.  Have written this season off.  I am 100% behind Dean Smith but am realistic to know he doesn't have a  5 year  window like a certain former manager thinks he's got at Sheff Wed to get things right.

Nope Smith doesn't get a free hand this season Bruce wasn't allowed to have one (by some) so Smith isn't allowed one either.

Thing that is important to point out is if we don't go up next season we'll have no Abraham, no Grealish and most likely no McGinn so next season. So all this blaming the bad run on Grealish being injured just shows how vital promotion is this season as we'll have no Grealish next season if we fail.
Yawn!!
Must be bedtime.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on February 04, 2019, 11:27:21 PM
The more Stuart moans about him, the more Dean Smith gets a free pass from me until the end of time.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VILLA MOLE on February 04, 2019, 11:37:56 PM
Quote from: stuart445 on February 04, 2019, 10:52:10 PM
Quote from: wittonwarrior on February 03, 2019, 08:40:53 PM
I think its fair to say Deano has a free hand this season, the next window however is crucial as it will define where we are heading and it could go either way.  Have written this season off.  I am 100% behind Dean Smith but am realistic to know he doesn't have a  5 year  window like a certain former manager thinks he's got at Sheff Wed to get things right.

Nope Smith doesn't get a free hand this season Bruce wasn't allowed to have one (by some) so Smith isn't allowed one either.

Thing that is important to point out is if we don't go up next season we'll have no Abraham, no Grealish and most likely no McGinn so next season. So all this blaming the bad run on Grealish being injured just shows how vital promotion is this season as we'll have no Grealish next season if we fail.


Bloody Hell is anybody staying ??
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on February 04, 2019, 11:46:43 PM
Quote from: VILLA MOLE on February 04, 2019, 11:37:56 PM
Quote from: stuart445 on February 04, 2019, 10:52:10 PM
Quote from: wittonwarrior on February 03, 2019, 08:40:53 PM
I think its fair to say Deano has a free hand this season, the next window however is crucial as it will define where we are heading and it could go either way.  Have written this season off.  I am 100% behind Dean Smith but am realistic to know he doesn't have a  5 year  window like a certain former manager thinks he's got at Sheff Wed to get things right.

Nope Smith doesn't get a free hand this season Bruce wasn't allowed to have one (by some) so Smith isn't allowed one either.

Thing that is important to point out is if we don't go up next season we'll have no Abraham, no Grealish and most likely no McGinn so next season. So all this blaming the bad run on Grealish being injured just shows how vital promotion is this season as we'll have no Grealish next season if we fail.


Bloody Hell is anybody staying ??

Us idiots will be...
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: stuart445 on February 04, 2019, 11:47:17 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on February 04, 2019, 11:24:32 PM
If he chooses to give Smith a free hit this season then that is his choice, you coming on here telling people that he cant have a free hit because Bruce didn't isn't going to change his views.
Smith has a free hit from me aswell for the rest of this season, as would any manager that has come in under the same circumstances.
I had no intentions of giving Bruce a free hit, he was brought in as the promotion expert with that being the only thing on which he would be judged. He failed and left us in a mess.

You say you'd give any manager a free hit who came under same circumstances... But then you had no intentions of giving a Bruce a free hit, wow the hypocrisy is off the scale.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on February 04, 2019, 11:55:08 PM
If you think Bruce and Smith came into the club in the same circumstances then you are way beyond help.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: old man villa fan on February 05, 2019, 06:49:05 AM
Quote from: LukeJames on February 04, 2019, 11:55:08 PM
If you think Bruce and Smith came into the club in the same circumstances then you are way beyond help.

Quite right. Building for the future takes time. Even longer if your hands are tied.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on February 05, 2019, 08:08:55 AM
Bruce did get a free hit

he stayed on after not getting us into the play offs had three more transfer windows and even went into a third season

that’s pretty much a free hit in my book
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: passitsideways on February 05, 2019, 08:56:54 AM
Quote from: john e on February 05, 2019, 08:08:55 AM
Bruce did get a free hit

he stayed on after not getting us into the play offs had three more transfer windows and even went into a third season

that’s pretty much a free hit in my book

It was a free hit 1 million times out of 1 million in my book, they weren't very far out from the playoffs at the time he took over from Di Matteo, and he was then massively backed (by Championship standards) in January, paid a big fee for Hogan, paid big wages to Lansbury and Hourihane, and Bree and Bjarnason both cost a couple million as well, yet he barely made a dent on proceedings and there were no rumblings whatsoever that his job was under threat despite losing 7 of 8 to start 2017.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on February 05, 2019, 09:38:08 AM
Stats comparing Conor Hourihane with John McGinn.
                                   Hourihane  McGinn    
% tackles won                 55%      66.1%
Clearances                       28           14      
Blocks                                 6             5
Interceptions                    11           23
% Shooting accuracy   45.9%     32.6%
Goals                                  4              2
Assists                               8              6
% Successful crosses  10.8%      25%
Chances created            41            48
Total passes                  1284        916
% passing accuracy     87.1%     79.5%
% passing accuracy
In opposition half         82.8%      76.8%
% Duals won                 56.9%      53.6%
Aerial duals won          48.4%       40%
Recoveries                     146          169

Stats always tell their own story and some above are in favour of Hourihane and some are against him in comparison to McGinn. What they do prove is that, to say Hourihane is a "passenger" and "contributing little" is frankly ridiculous. He has his faults as all footballers do but he also has his strengths not least the fact that he has contributed to 22.6% (nearly 1 in 4) of our goals in the championship this season.
I trust Smith to keep picking the best players at his disposal.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on February 05, 2019, 09:40:55 AM
Quote from: stuart445 on February 04, 2019, 11:47:17 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on February 04, 2019, 11:24:32 PM
If he chooses to give Smith a free hit this season then that is his choice, you coming on here telling people that he cant have a free hit because Bruce didn't isn't going to change his views.
Smith has a free hit from me aswell for the rest of this season, as would any manager that has come in under the same circumstances.
I had no intentions of giving Bruce a free hit, he was brought in as the promotion expert with that being the only thing on which he would be judged. He failed and left us in a mess.

You say you'd give any manager a free hit who came under same circumstances... But then you had no intentions of giving a Bruce a free hit, wow the hypocrisy is off the scale.
I'm not convinced that the fact some people didn't like Bruce from the off is reason enough for you to be unreasonably negative about Smith.

It would be fucking nuts to employ a young up and coming manager like Smith and not give him a decent amount of time to mould the team the way he wants, particularly as we've had a glimpse of just how good his football can be.

With that said, with the additions in defence I think he has a pretty good squad on his hands and I would like to see some real progress between now and the end of the season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on February 05, 2019, 09:51:25 AM
Quote from: LukeJames on February 04, 2019, 11:24:32 PM
If he chooses to give Smith a free hit this season then that is his choice, you coming on here telling people that he cant have a free hit because Bruce didn't isn't going to change his views.
Smith has a free hit from me aswell for the rest of this season, as would any manager that has come in under the same circumstances.
I had no intentions of giving Bruce a free hit, he was brought in as the promotion expert with that being the only thing on which he would be judged. He failed and left us in a mess.

This is where I am, they took over clubs in similar circumstances (90% of a decent squad but 3-4 key players that needed to be added) but the job they were employed for is very different. Bruce was part of a shit or bust strategy that he failed (in his first season) and he got a 2nd go and failed again. Smith is employed to improve the standard of the football and to build something sustainable. Wanting Bruce out after 6 months but being qwilling to give Smith longer isn't hypocrisy, it's judging managers by their own measure, Bruce managed for 1 season at a time and was all about promotion, he failed twice because we're still in this league. Smith not getting promotion this season isn't a failure by his own terms because that's not the only criteria he's given himself to be judged on. Stuart seems to find this a very difficult concept.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: andyh on February 05, 2019, 10:06:26 AM
Quote from: Abbeyfealeavfc on February 05, 2019, 09:38:08 AM
Stats comparing Conor Hourihane with John McGinn.
                                   Hourihane  McGinn     
% tackles won                 55%      66.1%
Clearances                       28           14       
Blocks                                 6             5
Interceptions                    11           23
% Shooting accuracy   45.9%     32.6%
Goals                                  4              2
Assists                               8              6
% Successful crosses  10.8%      25%
Chances created            41            48
Total passes                  1284        916
% passing accuracy     87.1%     79.5%
% passing accuracy
In opposition half         82.8%      76.8%
% Duals won                 56.9%      53.6%
Aerial duals won          48.4%       40%
Recoveries                     146          169

Stats always tell their own story and some above are in favour of Hourihane and some are against him in comparison to McGinn. What they do prove is that, to say Hourihane is a "passenger" and "contributing little" is frankly ridiculous. He has his faults as all footballers do but he also has his strengths not least the fact that he has contributed to 22.6% (nearly 1 in 4) of our goals in the championship this season.
I trust Smith to keep picking the best players at his disposal.
There are stats and there are stats.
Hourihane looks very positive in that list of numbers but we have seen him play.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on February 05, 2019, 11:47:52 AM
The value of stats is always about collecting the right ones. A lot of the stats in that table are telling us the same thing, which is that Hourihane is effective around the opposition box, he can score goals and create chances. What isn't included there is the number odf times he's tackled and gives up, or the number of times he doesn't attempt a tackle and players go through midfield unchallenged. He's a strange player to place because in attack he's more effective if he comes from deep and is moving on to the ball but his lack of defensive discipline means you can't have him as the sole defensive midfielder. If we stuck to the current shape of 2 defensive midfielders and he had a more disciplined player alongside him he could work in that 'deep playmaker' role but then you're either picking between McGinn or Grealish or you're changing the shape further forward so they can play together.

If we could train Hourihane to help out the left back and we could put Tuanzebe in beside him I'd be ok with McGinn as a box-to-box option and then Tammy, Grelaish and Kodjia/Davis playing as a fairly loose front 3 with the option to drift wide or deep.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clark W Griswold on February 05, 2019, 12:33:03 PM
Hourahane for me is pretty crap apart from those goals he weighs in with from time to time and for that reason I'd like to see him stay in the 18 for a while yet but not the 11.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on February 05, 2019, 08:33:54 PM
Quote from: Clark W Griswold on February 05, 2019, 12:33:03 PM
Hourahane for me is pretty crap apart from those goals he weighs in with from time to time and for that reason I'd like to see him stay in the 18 for a while yet but not the 11.

I agree.  Yes, he's scored four goals but he takes every corner and free kick too, so he cannot help but add to his assists tally.  Upgrade needed.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on February 05, 2019, 09:01:29 PM
Quote from: stuart445 on February 04, 2019, 11:47:17 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on February 04, 2019, 11:24:32 PM
If he chooses to give Smith a free hit this season then that is his choice, you coming on here telling people that he cant have a free hit because Bruce didn't isn't going to change his views.
Smith has a free hit from me aswell for the rest of this season, as would any manager that has come in under the same circumstances.
I had no intentions of giving Bruce a free hit, he was brought in as the promotion expert with that being the only thing on which he would be judged. He failed and left us in a mess.

You say you'd give any manager a free hit who came under same circumstances... But then you had no intentions of giving a Bruce a free hit, wow the hypocrisy is off the scale.

H&V community health advice. These posts are much more enjoyable if read while imagining Bob Mortimer delivering them in the style of Harry Kane in Gangs of the EPL.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 05, 2019, 09:03:11 PM
A lot of those stats confirm his lack of contribution for someone who is supposed to be a creative player and lacks defensive ability.
Successful croses 10.8% woeful.
Assists 8. Crap.
Goals 4 pathetic.
I see absolute no point in comparison with McGinn as you don’t need to look at stats to know who the most effective player is, just watch them play.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: colin69 on February 05, 2019, 09:41:09 PM
Dean has tried to address the mess he inherited but it will take time.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Matt Collins on February 05, 2019, 09:45:34 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 05, 2019, 09:03:11 PM
A lot of those stats confirm his lack of contribution for someone who is supposed to be a creative player and lacks defensive ability.
Successful croses 10.8% woeful.
Assists 8. Crap.
Goals 4 pathetic.
I see absolute no point in comparison with McGinn as you don’t need to look at stats to know who the most effective player is, just watch them play.


I'm not a massive fan of hourihane but this post is ridiculous. Tell me many centre midfielders with better productivity over recent seasons
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on February 05, 2019, 10:17:08 PM
Quote from: Matt Collins on February 05, 2019, 09:45:34 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 05, 2019, 09:03:11 PM
A lot of those stats confirm his lack of contribution for someone who is supposed to be a creative player and lacks defensive ability.
Successful croses 10.8% woeful.
Assists 8. Crap.
Goals 4 pathetic.
I see absolute no point in comparison with McGinn as you don’t need to look at stats to know who the most effective player is, just watch them play.


I'm not a massive fan of hourihane but this post is ridiculous. Tell me many centre midfielders with better productivity over recent seasons

I agree.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on February 06, 2019, 07:07:36 AM
I wouldnt call 8 assists crap. He could do with adding a few more goals to his game but so could Mcginn. Let's not forget, Hourihane has played a deeper role at times this season as well.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on February 06, 2019, 07:38:48 AM
Hourihane does make positive contributions to any side he is part of.  My problem with him is a common one in midfield players who do not deliver to their full potential, he is better when his team is winning.  He goes missing when we are under the cosh. In my opinion.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on February 06, 2019, 07:52:32 AM
He’s definitely good enough for a mid table championship team which is where we are at the moment

but if we want to be better than that Horihane needs upgrading or he needs to improve a lot imo
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on February 06, 2019, 08:08:39 AM
A little unfair to say he hasn't made a positive contribution. Didn't he get into double figures last season? I'm not a massive fan but he's been a decent enough signing for what we paid.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: oldhill_avfc on February 06, 2019, 08:18:52 AM
The stats quoted say as much about McGinn's limitations as Hourihane"s
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ROBBO on February 06, 2019, 08:48:54 AM
He is much better just tucked in behind the forwards he is never a deep lying midfielder.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Diablo on February 06, 2019, 08:57:48 AM
I watched the film Moneyball on Sunday for the first time (after someone I met said it was their favourite film). It made me think of Brentford and the old Liverpool set up pre Klopp (didn't they hire someone in to go down that route too?) and DS comment last week about increasing our younger player's market value. I'm assuming Brentford took their blueprint from Moneyball does anyone know if that is/was the case? Are their other examples of teams that have adopted this - besides the other club linked to Brentford? Or have lots of teams adopted this method with the availability of new technology and access to more stats?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 06, 2019, 09:08:05 AM
*PWS to the thread please*
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on February 06, 2019, 09:23:15 AM
Quote from: Diablo on February 06, 2019, 08:57:48 AM
I watched the film Moneyball on Sunday for the first time (after someone I met said it was their favourite film). It made me think of Brentford and the old Liverpool set up pre Klopp (didn't they hire someone in to go down that route too?) and DS comment last week about increasing our younger player's market value. I'm assuming Brentford took their blueprint from Moneyball does anyone know if that is/was the case? Are their other examples of teams that have adopted this - besides the other club linked to Brentford? Or have lots of teams adopted this method with the availability of new technology and access to more stats?
There was a club round here who bought into that Moneyball bollocks but for the life of me i cant think who it was? 😒
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on February 06, 2019, 12:13:04 PM
Was that the one that bought Veretout, Amavi, Gueye and Traore? 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on February 06, 2019, 12:14:51 PM
Quote from: brian green on February 06, 2019, 12:13:04 PM
Was that the one that bought Veretout, Amavi, Gueye and Traore?
Thats the one.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chipsticks on February 06, 2019, 12:20:01 PM
Quote from: Diablo on February 06, 2019, 08:57:48 AM
I watched the film Moneyball on Sunday for the first time (after someone I met said it was their favourite film). It made me think of Brentford and the old Liverpool set up pre Klopp (didn't they hire someone in to go down that route too?) and DS comment last week about increasing our younger player's market value. I'm assuming Brentford took their blueprint from Moneyball does anyone know if that is/was the case? Are their other examples of teams that have adopted this - besides the other club linked to Brentford? Or have lots of teams adopted this method with the availability of new technology and access to more stats?

Great film, and I strongly recommend you get hold of the book 'The Numbers Game', which goes into detail about how the explosive arrival of stats on everything has led to a more mathematical approach to football.

I feel like most teams in the modern game have adopted this approach now, but not quite to the extent of Moneyball.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Diablo on February 06, 2019, 12:25:59 PM
Quote from: The Edge on February 06, 2019, 09:23:15 AM
Quote from: Diablo on February 06, 2019, 08:57:48 AM
I watched the film Moneyball on Sunday for the first time (after someone I met said it was their favourite film). It made me think of Brentford and the old Liverpool set up pre Klopp (didn't they hire someone in to go down that route too?) and DS comment last week about increasing our younger player's market value. I'm assuming Brentford took their blueprint from Moneyball does anyone know if that is/was the case? Are their other examples of teams that have adopted this - besides the other club linked to Brentford? Or have lots of teams adopted this method with the availability of new technology and access to more stats?
There was a club round here who bought into that Moneyball bollocks but for the life of me i cant think who it was? 😒
I thought that was just a poorly managed phase we went through with Sherwood? Where people in high places were extremely over paid. Was that really our Moneyball period? Pretty poor imitation/disaster if so (despite some of the transfer fees since). Brentford have definitely had success with it - if that is actually what their system is based on. Is there anyone else who has success? Or have they been any other dalliances/disasters?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Diablo on February 06, 2019, 12:30:23 PM
Quote from: Chipsticks on February 06, 2019, 12:20:01 PM
Quote from: Diablo on February 06, 2019, 08:57:48 AM
I watched the film Moneyball on Sunday for the first time (after someone I met said it was their favourite film). It made me think of Brentford and the old Liverpool set up pre Klopp (didn't they hire someone in to go down that route too?) and DS comment last week about increasing our younger player's market value. I'm assuming Brentford took their blueprint from Moneyball does anyone know if that is/was the case? Are their other examples of teams that have adopted this - besides the other club linked to Brentford? Or have lots of teams adopted this method with the availability of new technology and access to more stats?

Great film, and I strongly recommend you get hold of the book 'The Numbers Game', which goes into detail about how the explosive arrival of stats on everything has led to a more mathematical approach to football.

I feel like most teams in the modern game have adopted this approach now, but not quite to the extent of Moneyball.
Cheers Chipsticks thanks for the book recommendation. Yeah that was kind of my view too that more clubs were now using the stat approach but not to the Moneyball extent/degree which was why I threw the questions out there. Extremely interesting subject - can see the benefits, how it would be resisted and also the need for everyone to buy into it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KevinGage on February 06, 2019, 12:31:42 PM
Quote from: Diablo on February 06, 2019, 08:57:48 AM
I watched the film Moneyball on Sunday for the first time (after someone I met said it was their favourite film). It made me think of Brentford and the old Liverpool set up pre Klopp (didn't they hire someone in to go down that route too?) and DS comment last week about increasing our younger player's market value. I'm assuming Brentford took their blueprint from Moneyball does anyone know if that is/was the case? Are their other examples of teams that have adopted this - besides the other club linked to Brentford? Or have lots of teams adopted this method with the availability of new technology and access to more stats?

You don't have to be a Moneyball disciple to know that signing younger players will (usually) mean there is more value re resale. Or there is a better chance of it, at least. Younger players can still stink the place out and might be hard to shift if they are on wages well in excess of their performance levels. 

What Moneyball did (and would be harder to replicate in football) is have players primarily known for one thing converted to another position based on stats.  This could often be older players and players deemed well past their best as well, so that aspect doesn't fit the Young and Hungry Version 2.0 model we look to be implementing.

Where Brentford have had some joy in recent seasons (as well as having a decent scouting network) is switching targets from the more traditional win/loss ratio and incentivising the amount of times they attack from certain areas of the pitch.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on February 06, 2019, 12:35:34 PM
Yeah I feel the money ball movement and idea is something a majority of clubs take on .
But really they don't use the term money ball.

I do think a decent performance related pay structure and rewards for players based on team and individual achievement helps players .

There is much said for incentives in any work place or way of life too
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on February 06, 2019, 12:38:35 PM
Didn't Lambert allude to something similar when he came in and started signing the likes of Lowton, Westwood, Bowery, etc?  Young lower league players who had the rights "stats" to suggest they could kick on and make it in the big league.

Safe to say, it's not as easy as it might seem...
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on February 06, 2019, 12:43:49 PM
Yeah it's just buying players with sell on value.

Chelsea just buy anyone and anything and loan them .
I probably dislike their off field business more than any in premier league

 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KevinGage on February 06, 2019, 12:46:01 PM
He was after Cresswell as well, who has gone on to have a decent Premier League career.

The issue with that model is a player coming from League One Sheff Utd (as Lowton did at the time)  or Championship side Boro not only has to contend with the step up in football, but the expectations like a club at Villa.

We had been on a downward curve for a few years by then, but a club like Villa would still expect to win the majority of its home games. And meek, error-ridden football would get the crowd restless -as it often did.

Clubs like Burnley and Cardiff have won the lottery just by being in the topflight, so the fans will wear a few duff performances.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Duncan Shaw on February 06, 2019, 12:53:07 PM
Fair to say Lowton, Westwood, Joe Bennett, Benteke all done OK.  I prefer that model to Bruceball Old and Experienced.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KevinGage on February 06, 2019, 12:56:57 PM
McGrath would have been closer to a moneyball signing - a good player who becomes available at far less than his market value.

His off-field issues were well known. And with Yanited offering him early retirement due to his knees, the value dropped accordingly.

It didn't sound like GT had done a whole lot of research in all honesty. He watched him play an international match for Ireland in 89 and decided to go for him later that summer.

Jim Walker's training regime (or lack of) also came about after witnessing his early performances for Villa, so it doesn't sound like that aspect was a pre-conceived idea either.  And if he had continued to play central midfield (as he did in some of his early games)  we would have struggled to get a season out of him.

But if a similar deal became possible for one of the best centre halves in the world today, with what we know about sports science and the increase in stats available, it might help a club form a more rounded opinion about the risks involved.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Diablo on February 06, 2019, 01:59:34 PM
Quote from: KevinGage on February 06, 2019, 12:31:42 PM
Quote from: Diablo on February 06, 2019, 08:57:48 AM
I watched the film Moneyball on Sunday for the first time (after someone I met said it was their favourite film). It made me think of Brentford and the old Liverpool set up pre Klopp (didn't they hire someone in to go down that route too?) and DS comment last week about increasing our younger player's market value. I'm assuming Brentford took their blueprint from Moneyball does anyone know if that is/was the case? Are their other examples of teams that have adopted this - besides the other club linked to Brentford? Or have lots of teams adopted this method with the availability of new technology and access to more stats?


Where Brentford have had some joy in recent seasons (as well as having a decent scouting network) is switching targets from the more traditional win/loss ratio and incentivising the amount of times they attack from certain areas of the pitch.
That's really interesting. I knew DS and the Brentford team were progressive but with an example like that (which is arguably quite radical) you can see why they would have that success, especially if their aim is to improve performance more regularly and in general (more shots/possession etc) and with that improvement gain better results (something that DS talked about as soon as he got here).
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on February 06, 2019, 04:15:12 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 06, 2019, 09:08:05 AM
*PWS to the thread please*

Or Dave!

I give up on it beyond saying Moneyball had absolutely nothing to do with moving young players on for a profit. Neither is it to do with  signing a player based on stats, which is sabermetrics.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdward on February 06, 2019, 04:26:41 PM
I think Villa adopted the Moneyball philosophy from the wrong end, i.e  as the buying club, we pay inflated prices for players that were bought for peanuts and improved a little.
Scott Hogan....
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on February 06, 2019, 05:01:02 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on February 06, 2019, 04:15:12 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 06, 2019, 09:08:05 AM
*PWS to the thread please*

Or Dave!

I give up on it beyond saying Moneyball had absolutely nothing to do with moving young players on for a profit. Neither is it to do with  signing a player based on stats, which is sabermetrics.

I appreciate that Wikipedia isn't always right but...

Quote
Moneyball has entered baseball's lexicon; teams that value sabermetrics are often said to be playing "Moneyball."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moneyball
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on February 06, 2019, 05:01:05 PM
I’ve seen the moneyball film great film and sort of get the gist of it without fully understanding all the ramifications

always makes me laugh when people try and explain the exact science of it all as if it matters
Who gives a flying fuck
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on February 06, 2019, 05:20:16 PM
I really can't be arsed, if people want to use a term incorrectly, then go ahead.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on February 06, 2019, 06:08:25 PM
Read the book.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: adrenachrome on February 06, 2019, 06:10:31 PM
Quote from: Mister E on February 06, 2019, 06:08:25 PM
Read the book.

Will their be a test, Sir? Does it go towards our grades?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rigadon on February 06, 2019, 06:12:14 PM
Quote from: Duncan Shaw on February 06, 2019, 12:53:07 PM
Fair to say Lowton, Westwood, Joe Bennett, Benteke all done OK.  I prefer that model to Bruceball Old and Experienced.

Huh???   The only decent player there was Benteke IMO.  The rest were different shades of shite.  I would like a good mix of youth and experience and not some experiment last seen when we had Mr Go Again.   What should we put up with anything else is beyond me.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Allan C on February 06, 2019, 06:13:31 PM
Quote from: john e on February 06, 2019, 07:52:32 AM
He’s definitely good enough for a mid table championship team which is where we are at the moment

but if we want to be better than that Horihane needs upgrading or he needs to improve a lot imo
That is a fair comment  ok for now, not good enough if we want to go places
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on February 06, 2019, 06:14:47 PM
Quote from: adrenachrome on February 06, 2019, 06:10:31 PM
Quote from: Mister E on February 06, 2019, 06:08:25 PM
Read the book.

Will their be a test, Sir? Does it go towards our grades?
No, there won't be a test.
It may help to explain some stuff, though. ;D
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: adrenachrome on February 06, 2019, 06:35:05 PM
Quote from: Mister E on February 06, 2019, 06:14:47 PM
Quote from: adrenachrome on February 06, 2019, 06:10:31 PM
Quote from: Mister E on February 06, 2019, 06:08:25 PM
Read the book.

Will their be a test, Sir? Does it go towards our grades?
No, there won't be a test.
It may help to explain some stuff, though. ;D

I gess Ive lurned my lesson. I blame phonix.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on February 07, 2019, 12:50:13 PM
I also like to mention the book soccernomics for those interested .
And more interesting in regards to our beloved  football and sport

Quote from: adrenachrome on February 06, 2019, 06:35:05 PM
Quote from: Mister E on February 06, 2019, 06:14:47 PM
Quote from: adrenachrome on February 06, 2019, 06:10:31 PM
Quote from: Mister E on February 06, 2019, 06:08:25 PM
Read the book.

Will their be a test, Sir? Does it go towards our grades?
No, there won't be a test.
It may help to explain some stuff, though. ;D

I gess Ive lurned my lesson. I blame phonix.


It applies analytical tools to everyday football topics.

Soccernomics isn't in the first place about money. It's about looking at data in new ways. It's about revealing counterintuitive truths about football. It explains all manner of things about the game which newspapers just can't see. It all adds up to a new way of looking at football, beyond clichés.

If you  read Soccernomics you can garner a better understanding of football and also economists thinking.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chinchilla Bathhouse on February 07, 2019, 01:02:12 PM
I really enjoyed Soccernomics. It was originally called 'Why England Lose' and, as footy says, isn't all about football finances. It's about the science and maths of football - sounds dull but it was a cracking good read. And I hate maths.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on February 08, 2019, 08:15:07 PM
Right now Dean Smith is looking like a tool.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on February 08, 2019, 09:18:03 PM
Quote from: mr underhill on February 08, 2019, 08:15:07 PM
Right now Dean Smith is looking like a tool.

No, fans calling for him to go or calling him out are the 'tools'.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 08, 2019, 09:43:20 PM
Got out jail. But Dean it’s not good enough at the moment, sort it the fuck out.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on February 08, 2019, 09:49:24 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on February 08, 2019, 09:43:20 PM
Got out jail. But Dean it’s not good enough at the moment, sort it the fuck out.

Paul, let's have this debate this time next year.  To be honest, I wasn't particularly impressed by the window, other than Mings, but the summer is massive and he needs to have a full close season with his own players.  We were absolute tripe for 81 minutes tonight but clearly, when we need to, we CAN be competitive. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on February 08, 2019, 09:51:14 PM
I'm still behind Smith but we need to start seeing a lot more of that last 15 mins and a lot less of the first 80 which was as poor as anything we've seen for a long time.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on February 08, 2019, 09:53:25 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on February 08, 2019, 09:51:14 PM
I'm still behind Smith but we need to start seeing a lot more of that last 15 mins and a lot less of the first 80 which was as poor as anything we've seen for a long time.

Let's hope that instills some belief and we can kick on.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on February 08, 2019, 09:54:12 PM
It shows what we're capable of which makes the first 80 and some of the recent performances even more frustrating.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 08, 2019, 09:54:35 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on February 08, 2019, 09:51:14 PM
I'm still behind Smith but we need to start seeing a lot more of that last 15 mins and a lot less of the first 80 which was as poor as anything we've seen for a long time.

Sums it up nicely. The level has been rubbish.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 08, 2019, 10:14:46 PM
I hope the last 15 minutes are a turning point, rather than a mere papering over the cracks.  The first 80 minutes was hugely poor, as bad as anything the previous managers have served up.  I don't know what Jedinak has been doing in training to merit a start, but fuck me it looked a poor decision to start him tonight.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on February 08, 2019, 10:20:51 PM
Forget Smith, I'm taking full credit for that result for storming out of the ground after 70 minutes!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on February 08, 2019, 10:23:04 PM
Quote from: Ad@m on February 08, 2019, 10:20:51 PM
Forget Smith, I'm taking full credit for that result for storming out of the ground after 70 minutes!

No way, it was me. I decided I'd do the washing up around 80 minutes rather than watch any more. Unfortunately there wasn't much to do.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on February 08, 2019, 10:37:59 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 08, 2019, 10:14:46 PM
I hope the last 15 minutes are a turning point, rather than a mere papering over the cracks.  The first 80 minutes was hugely poor, as bad as anything the previous managers have served up.  I don't know what Jedinak has been doing in training to merit a start, but fuck me it looked a poor decision to start him tonight.
I can only think we’re so collectively slow in training it’s hard to tell that Miles is as fast as a tortoise.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 08, 2019, 10:53:56 PM
As shocking as Jedi was, he could be useful at the end of games, he has been out for a long time and it showed.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: passport1 on February 08, 2019, 11:08:02 PM
Yes mowing the grass
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ez on February 08, 2019, 11:57:27 PM
If only we had an average defence we'd be top 4 easily. We're scoring enough goals.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: wittonwarrior on February 09, 2019, 01:18:24 AM
Dean Smith right man for the job - but wrong timing. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on February 09, 2019, 01:24:47 AM
In league games since Dean Smith arrived had we conceded just one less goal a game in games where we have scored twice or more we’d have 17 more points and we’d be top of the league by 4 points.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on February 09, 2019, 01:37:41 AM
I think 17 points includes Bruce and it's 13 under Smith.

We've scored at least twice in out last 9 home league games, and only won 3 of them.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aldridgeboy on February 09, 2019, 02:15:08 AM
I’m not sure how to feel. At 3-0 I genuinely said “ well I hope it’s 5 now because he then has to make massive changes”

So as thrilled as I was at 3-3 , what’s now, system wise, going to change ??
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on February 09, 2019, 02:35:32 AM
Sorry I miscalculated. I took every game had we conceded one less goal to come up with 17 points. I realize it's all hypothetical and there are games like tonight we came back to gain a point too, but it shows with a better defence the goals we are scoring should have got us a much, much better return.

20 Oct 2018   Aston Villa 1-0 Swansea City - 3 points - no change with one less goal conceded   
23 Oct 2018   Norwich City 2-1 Aston Villa - 0 points - +1 score would have been 1-1 (-3 from winning position)
26 Oct 2018   Queens Park Rangers 1-0 Aston Villa 0 points +1 score would have been 0-0
02 Nov 2018   Aston Villa 2-0 Bolton Wanderers   - 3 points no change
10 Nov 2018   Derby County 0-3 Aston Villa - 3 points no change
25 Nov 2018   Aston Villa 4-2 Birmingham City- 3 points no change
28 Nov 2018   Aston Villa 5-5 Nottingham Forest - 1 points +2 score would have been 5-4 (-2 from winning position)
01 Dec 2018   Middlesbrough 0-3 Aston Villa - 3 points no change
07 Dec 2018   West Bromwich Albion 2-2 Aston Villa-  1 points +2 score would have been 2-1 (-2 from winning position)
15 Dec 2018   Aston Villa 2-2 Stoke City - 1 points +2 score would have been 2-1
23 Dec 2018   Aston Villa 2-3 Leeds United - 0 points +1 score would have been 2-2 (-2 from winning position)
26 Dec 2018   Swansea City 0-1 Aston Villa - 3 points no change
29 Dec 2018   Preston North End 1-1 Aston Villa - 1 point + 2 score would have been 1-0
01 Jan 2019   Aston Villa 2-2 Queens Park Rangers- 1 point + 2 score would have been 2-1
12 Jan 2019   Wigan Athletic 0-3 Aston Villa - 0 points no change
19 Jan 2019   Aston Villa 2-2 Hull City- 1 point + 2 score would have been 2-1
26 Jan 2019   Aston Villa 2-1 Ipswich Town - 3 points no change
02 Feb 2019   Reading 0-0 Aston Villa - 1 point no change
08 Feb 2019   Aston Villa 3-3 Sheffield United - 1 point + 2 score would have been 3-2

So an extra 17 points in games where we have dropped points one less goal conceded gives us 61 points. If you look at just from points lost from winning positions we've dropped 9 points puts us 4th.

Any way you carve stats in any number if ways. The fact is we have conceded 29 league goals since Dean Smith arrived in 19 games. Ultimately it's truly abysmal.      

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TheMalandro on February 09, 2019, 02:53:28 AM
What’s not surprising at all, Wilder said after the match that they concentrated on attacking our fullbacks.

I’m very disappointed Hutton and Taylor are still in the team.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sickbeggar on February 09, 2019, 02:56:11 AM
well i'm not sure Smith's arrival is that important as far as the shit defence and no decent defensive midfielder is concerned. It was shit before we kicked a ball - a lot of us said it. It was shit during Bruce's time and he got the boot because of it. Smith's been unable to get a defensive midfielder and the two new guys have only just come in so its still shite-ish because erm there's still half the defence and a DM who is shit,. Admittedly if its still as shit in a months time i think we are entitled to ask why, but with the best will in the world, barring him finding a replacement for hutton, taylor and jedinak/whelan from the youth, its still gonna be a bit....... well shit.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: West Derby Villan on February 09, 2019, 03:25:49 AM
Smith needs time, we all need to show patience, he's only been here 5 minutes. This time next year we will have a more objective view of his strategy and managerial aptitude.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KRS on February 09, 2019, 05:40:36 AM
Quote from: TheMalandro on February 09, 2019, 02:53:28 AM
What’s not surprising at all, Wilder said after the match that they concentrated on attacking our fullbacks.

I’m very disappointed Hutton and Taylor are still in the team.
He’s not the first and he won’t be the last...both of them not fit or good enough to wear the shirt.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Matt Collins on February 09, 2019, 06:14:26 AM
Definitely needs time. The fact there's a Smith out thread on here and on twitter is embarrassing. The fans - or rather some fans _+- are definitely part of the problem

It's all about building for the next two seasons for me. Its a big job. We'll need a whole new front three, holding midfielder, left back abs an intensive summer of drilling to change the playing style

But I wish I could see signs we're making that transition. The performances are arguably just getting worse and worse. And I think there are signs that he's not going with his principles and trying to be more pragmatic. Maybe thats right in the circumstances but it's not giving me cause for optimism
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on February 09, 2019, 07:28:31 AM
Quote from: Matt Collins on February 09, 2019, 06:14:26 AM
Definitely needs time. The fact there's a Smith out thread on here and on twitter is embarrassing. The fans - or rather some fans _+- are definitely part of the problem

It's all about building for the next two seasons for me. Its a big job. We'll need a whole new front three, holding midfielder, left back abs an intensive summer of drilling to change the playing style

But I wish I could see signs we're making that transition. The performances are arguably just getting worse and worse. And I think there are signs that he's not going with his principles and trying to be more pragmatic. Maybe thats right in the circumstances but it's not giving me cause for optimism

the Smith Out thread was too embarrassing even for us lot and has been removed
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on February 09, 2019, 07:31:12 AM
Maybe but he can't be above criticism - apart from one or two  thrilling performances we've been hugely uninspiring and plain embarrassing defensively.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: simboy on February 09, 2019, 07:56:48 AM
Smith doesn’t become a bad manger overnight, exactly the same as we don’t become a good team overnight.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brassneck on February 09, 2019, 08:01:43 AM
Quote from: mr underhill on February 09, 2019, 07:31:12 AM
Maybe but he can't be above criticism - apart from one or two  thrilling performances we've been hugely uninspiring and plain embarrassing defensively.

I agree that he isn't above criticism.  However, for me, I will hold back until next season, after Smith has had an opportunity to really make his stamp on the team by bringing in his own players.

The harsh reality is that we will lose Grealish so it really will be an overhaul in midfield (with the possibility of losing McGinn as well).  The plus side is that the money we will receive will give us anther throw of the dice in terms of spending bigger than our rivals.  Next season will see an entirely new team with as many as 6 new signings in the starting 11.  The old legs will all have gone and be replaced by energy, as we have seen Leeds, Norwich & Sheff United display.  Bruce was a dinosaur, despite his denials and the players we are stuck with are nearly all his players.  They don't suit Smith's style of play and no manager would have got a tune out of the defenders Smith inherited.  As much as I like Hutton and still appreciate his commitment, he is not good enough any more.  The less said about Taylor the better and Tommy Elphick still has to prove himself to me.  We've seen him play well over 10 games before and then follow it up with one of his calamities.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on February 09, 2019, 08:13:15 AM
It does need to be pointed out, look at our bench last night. For most with the exception of Steer, their last appearances for us verged from the very poor (Whelo, Green, AA) to the downright awful (Hause, BB, Elmo).

I'm hopeful that Kodjia, Jedinak and Taylor don't appear in a Villa shirt again after last night but who do you replace them with? Move Hutton to left back and bring Elmo back in, is that really going to improve matters? Whelan isn't able to play every week, I honestly don't think Carroll or Lansbury will improve matters in midfield if ever they get fit. Does anyone have any confidence that AA or BB will turn around their awful form?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rigadon on February 09, 2019, 08:24:07 AM
We've been so up and down since he came in, with some amazing performances and some downright awful ones.  I get why people want to give him the chance to sign some players before judging it.  Mings, I think looks a very very good signing.  So, more like that please. 

I also get why people feel that a good coach should be able to get more from a squad than a poor one.  Loads of people moaning about Bruce were saying how the squad was stronger than the performances he was getting from it.   It's fair that the same rules apply to DS.

I'd say that any team with Jack Grealish in it is significantly better than one without him and our own failings have been exposed royally since he was injured.  That has to be properly addressed in the summer if he goes (almost certainly if we are in the 2nd Division still) or not. 

DS has my full support anyway.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on February 09, 2019, 08:59:08 AM
Well done H&V on removing that dreadful thread designed for the clickbaiting press! In Deano I trust. UTV!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: GarTomas on February 09, 2019, 09:01:40 AM
Quote from: Abbeyfealeavfc on February 05, 2019, 09:38:08 AM
Stats comparing Conor Hourihane with John McGinn.
                                   Hourihane  McGinn     
% tackles won                 55%      66.1%
Clearances                       28           14       
Blocks                                 6             5
Interceptions                    11           23
% Shooting accuracy   45.9%     32.6%
Goals                                  4              2
Assists                               8              6
% Successful crosses  10.8%      25%
Chances created            41            48
Total passes                  1284        916
% passing accuracy     87.1%     79.5%
% passing accuracy
In opposition half         82.8%      76.8%
% Duals won                 56.9%      53.6%
Aerial duals won          48.4%       40%
Recoveries                     146          169

Stats always tell their own story and some above are in favour of Hourihane and some are against him in comparison to McGinn. What they do prove is that, to say Hourihane is a "passenger" and "contributing little" is frankly ridiculous. He has his faults as all footballers do but he also has his strengths not least the fact that he has contributed to 22.6% (nearly 1 in 4) of our goals in the championship this season.
I trust Smith to keep picking the best players at his disposal.

Without the heat map of where these passes are it's meaningless.

McGinn 25% less passes and 17% more chances created? Says it all.

We can only hope that Hourihanes impressive stats means we can move him on in the summer.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villa75 on February 09, 2019, 09:51:14 AM
Are people seriously suggesting that this is the very best we can expect, from a decent manager, with the squad we have?

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on February 09, 2019, 09:52:19 AM
YES.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dave P on February 09, 2019, 10:02:27 AM
It’s been said before, but consider that we are without Grealish, Axel and been forced to play Chester half fit for two months. Couple that with the fact it wasn’t his team to start with.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nunkin1965 on February 09, 2019, 10:09:52 AM
Smith needs time to try and develop his team. I’ll judge him properly on what I see after a summer of departures and arrivals because he’ll be fortunate to be able to do this.
Fast forward one year and see where we are.
He shouldn’t be immune from criticism but he needs a decent amount of time to see if he can get us out of the Championship and stay out and also try and develop something that’s sustainable.
He may succeed or fail but we have to be patient.
People aren’t though hence the half empty stadium.
I’ve only ever left early once ( If you did, unlucky!) and that was 33 odd years ago when we were 0-3 to Blose.


Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on February 09, 2019, 10:43:44 AM
People suggesting the squad is poor have clearly not been paying attention to some of the squads who have made us look piss poor these last few months.

DS has not improved us anywhere near enough.

That's not saying I want him out, it's expressing a disappointment at what we've seen so far.

People implying the fans are somehow a big part of the problem make me laugh. Save the self loathing for yourselves, don't apply it to the collective.

Week after week of utter shit and 35k there in a cold winter Friday night for a live television match for a mid table side who look incapable of beating anyone.

They don't deserve us.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nunkin1965 on February 09, 2019, 11:01:41 AM
That’s true,
The support is immense.
Smith is used to a model of developing young energetic physical sides and then accepting that they need to be broken up with inevitable player sales.
He won’t have to do that here in the main so I for one am interested whether he can develop a quality team without the need to sell every transfer window.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 09, 2019, 11:03:44 AM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on February 09, 2019, 10:43:44 AM
People suggesting the squad is poor have clearly not been paying attention to some of the squads who have made us look piss poor these last few months.

DS has not improved us anywhere near enough.

That's not saying I want him out, it's expressing a disappointment at what we've seen so far.

People implying the fans are somehow a big part of the problem make me laugh. Save the self loathing for yourselves, don't apply it to the collective.

Week after week of utter shit and 35k there in a cold winter Friday night for a live television match for a mid table side who look incapable of beating anyone.

They don't deserve us.

Great post, agree with every word.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy65 on February 09, 2019, 11:06:51 AM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on February 09, 2019, 10:43:44 AM
People suggesting the squad is poor have clearly not been paying attention to some of the squads who have made us look piss poor these last few months.

DS has not improved us anywhere near enough.

That's not saying I want him out, it's expressing a disappointment at what we've seen so far.

People implying the fans are somehow a big part of the problem make me laugh. Save the self loathing for yourselves, don't apply it to the collective.

Week after week of utter shit and 35k there in a cold winter Friday night for a live television match for a mid table side who look incapable of beating anyone.

They don't deserve us.

Agreed
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on February 09, 2019, 11:08:11 AM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on February 09, 2019, 10:43:44 AM
People suggesting the squad is poor have clearly not been paying attention to some of the squads who have made us look piss poor these last few months.

DS has not improved us anywhere near enough.

That's not saying I want him out, it's expressing a disappointment at what we've seen so far.

People implying the fans are somehow a big part of the problem make me laugh. Save the self loathing for yourselves, don't apply it to the collective.

Week after week of utter shit and 35k there in a cold winter Friday night for a live television match for a mid table side who look incapable of beating anyone.

They don't deserve us.

This is so true and I think the owners and Purslow must be pulling their hair out, knowing that, if we can get those sorts of gates in those circumstances, what are we capable of if we were to go up?  They have to be patient but must also be feeling very frustrated.  The sad facts are that we have spent a shit load on transfers and are already on to our third Manager since being in this division, hardly a settled football club in evidence there.   Whilst Smith is not beyond criticism, he does need time.  He tried to address the midfield by bringing in Fer but sadly the transfer fell through (arguably leading to the panic buy in signing Carroll imo).  We brought in five players in the month but still failed to address the left back issue.  Hopefully, having a full summer to do deals, we will see the likes of Henry, Sawyers, Mings signed as well as Guilbert settling in.  And, we address that fricking midfield!  He has a lot to do and I'm sure fully understands the pressures of the job.  As I said on another thread, the time to start calling for his head is this time next year if we are still serving up the inconsistent stuff we saw for 81 minutes last night.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on February 09, 2019, 11:08:46 AM
The squad isn't poor, but at the moment the team is, and there's a tipping point of shit players in the team when it doesn't matter how good the rest are, they just can't compensate.

Look at last night's starting line up and see just how many aren't good enough, even at this level:

Kalinic - early days, but he's yet to fill me with any confidence
Hutton - not good enough
Taylor - not good enough
Mings - quality
Elphick - borderline
Jedinak - not good enough
Hourihane - borderline
SJM - quality
Kodjia - toss of a coin, last night was an off night
El Ghazi - see Kodjia
Abraham - quality

Yes, we're missing players to come back but they're not going to fix the glaring problems we have at full back, defensive midfield, and on the wings.

Until they get sorted we're going to be mid-table at best.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on February 09, 2019, 11:26:56 AM
Quote from: Dave P on February 09, 2019, 10:02:27 AM
It’s been said before, but consider that we are without Grealish, Axel and been forced to play Chester half fit for two months. Couple that with the fact it wasn’t his team to start with.

Its his team as soon as he signed his contract at Villa Park and Smith's job is to get the best out of resources at his disposal

Sorry, Im not buying that argument at all nor did I when Bruce came in first
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on February 09, 2019, 11:29:21 AM
Quote from: Risso on February 08, 2019, 10:14:46 PM
I hope the last 15 minutes are a turning point, rather than a mere papering over the cracks.  The first 80 minutes was hugely poor, as bad as anything the previous managers have served up.  I don't know what Jedinak has been doing in training to merit a start, but fuck me it looked a poor decision to start him tonight.

Don't forget that we also had some crucial decisions go against us due to poor officiating again. Although of course that doesn't change the fact we were generally poor all over the pitch in that period.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on February 09, 2019, 11:31:45 AM
Quote from: brontebilly on February 09, 2019, 11:26:56 AM
Quote from: Dave P on February 09, 2019, 10:02:27 AM
It’s been said before, but consider that we are without Grealish, Axel and been forced to play Chester half fit for two months. Couple that with the fact it wasn’t his team to start with.

Its his team as soon as he signed his contract at Villa Park and Smith's job is to get the best out of resources at his disposal

Sorry, Im not buying that argument at all nor did I when Bruce came in first

I agree to an extent as he inherited an unbalanced squad who he hadn't had a pre season to work with and injuries to key players . But like anyone in any walk of life from day one of taking on a job you are held responsible for your performance in that job.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: London Villan on February 09, 2019, 11:32:25 AM
It’s the years of rubbish that has a big effect on patience (or lack of). No idea if Smith has got what it takes, I hope he has as I’d love to see us play with the energy of sheff utd.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: passport1 on February 09, 2019, 11:44:22 AM
Quote from: Risso on February 09, 2019, 11:03:44 AM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on February 09, 2019, 10:43:44 AM
People suggesting the squad is poor have clearly not been paying attention to some of the squads who have made us look piss poor these last few months.

DS has not improved us anywhere near enough.

That's not saying I want him out, it's expressing a disappointment at what we've seen so far.

People implying the fans are somehow a big part of the problem make me laugh. Save the self loathing for yourselves, don't apply it to the collective.

Week after week of utter shit and 35k there in a cold winter Friday night for a live television match for a mid table side who look incapable of beating anyone.

They don't deserve us.

Great post, agree with every word.

Seconded. I saw a team of average players with shape and movement last night that for 80 mins played us off the park.

I think that a so called head coach should have been able to show more progress than we have seen to date.

At the very least questions should be being asked about Smith. As for the Smith Out n thread no more offensive than Bruce Out after the same number of games which strangely
was permitted.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Matt Collins on February 09, 2019, 11:49:48 AM
The championship is all about energy and belief in a clear way of playing

We don't have enough of either at the moment

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nunkin1965 on February 09, 2019, 11:55:32 AM
Didn’t agree with the Bruce out thread when it started. Don’t agree with the Smith out thread when it was posted.
Pathetic on both counts in my opinion.
It’s a want it now I’ve got no patience society and I accept that but it doesn’t mean I agree with it.
Wanting anyone out this soon is a joke.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on February 09, 2019, 11:56:11 AM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on February 09, 2019, 10:43:44 AM
People suggesting the squad is poor have clearly not been paying attention to some of the squads who have made us look piss poor these last few months.
DS has not improved us anywhere near enough.
They don't deserve us.
Commenting on 3 specific points in your post:
Those Squads that have made us look piss poor have had some time with their current Managers to find a way of playing as a team to their strength. Leeds are an exception but so is Bielsa. Norwich are the better example where Farke has had more time. Last season he was underwhelming look at him now!

Disagree. We are much much better than paint drying,  play by numbers football that Bruce  played however admit that points yield has been not good enough.

Over many years now our players and Managers have not deserved us.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on February 09, 2019, 11:57:32 AM
Quote from: TheMalandro on February 09, 2019, 02:53:28 AM
What’s not surprising at all, Wilder said after the match that they concentrated on attacking our fullbacks.

I’m very disappointed Hutton and Taylor are still in the team.

We could easily go back to Hutton at left back but think DS just wants that natural balance on both flanks. Taylor simply isn't good enough which is the problem.

On the other flank AEM is much better crossing the halfway line and getting crosses into the box so would seem to suit the style more but he had a terrible run of form over the xmas period giving away penalties and own goals so think he's lost Smith's trust and another who will likely move on in the summer.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on February 09, 2019, 12:04:18 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on February 09, 2019, 09:51:14 AM
Are people seriously suggesting that this is the very best we can expect, from a decent manager, with the squad we have?



Our squad is full of OAPs.

Most telling comment from DS which certainly suggests his job is under no threat whatsoever was about getitng the average age of the squad down in the summer.

Clearly the owners have had time to watch our games and their eyes have probably never popped out at the amount of over 30s on high wages Steve Bruce left us.

If we did fluke a promotion lmagine likes of Jedinak, Hutton and Whelan against Man. City and Liverpool....I'd prefer not to.

We are just an average up and down championship team without Grealish tbh. When he comes back I'm sure our style will start to look better and we'll pick up some wins but it will probably be too late to seriously challenge for top 6.

Of course I want to go up but we have to be ready as a club. Last season we probably were. Now we're not again.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chris Smith on February 09, 2019, 12:10:43 PM
We have players but we don’t have a team. It’s a product of years of mismanagement where the whole does not equal the sum of its parts. When Grealish was playing he was good enough to bring out the best in those around him, without him we are disjointed and inconsistent. I am offering no sort of judgement on Smith either for or against until he has the opportunity to put his stamp on the squad in the summer.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KevinGage on February 09, 2019, 12:58:11 PM
From the moment you step into just about any job you are judged.

Why should football management be any different.

Any failed manager (and I am by no means saying that applies to DS) can point to a myriad of excuses. Not signing the players you wanted or having a squad just to your liking usually feature high on that list.

But the better managers find a way.

They get results in trying circumstances and bring just enough success to give themselves that bit of security early on.

He has known since he took the job (and probably before it, with his Villa connections)  that this is a talented squad. One of the most talented in the division personnel-wise. But it is unbalanced. And we are ropey defensively. Mings apart, the incoming deals don't look like they have gone a huge way to addressing that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on February 09, 2019, 01:29:32 PM
Quote from: brontebilly on February 09, 2019, 11:26:56 AM
Quote from: Dave P on February 09, 2019, 10:02:27 AM
It’s been said before, but consider that we are without Grealish, Axel and been forced to play Chester half fit for two months. Couple that with the fact it wasn’t his team to start with.

Its his team as soon as he signed his contract at Villa Park and Smith's job is to get the best out of resources at his disposal

Sorry, Im not buying that argument at all nor did I when Bruce came in first

I actually agree with you on this point. What's uncertain us what 'the best' looks like with these players.

More broadly though, you strike me as a man that's never bought an argument in his life!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on February 09, 2019, 01:36:50 PM
It was talented, once upon a time. Now it's just old. Of the 18 last night, Hutton, Taylor, Elphick, Jedinak, Adomah, Whelan, Elmohamady and Bjarnason are all over 30. Kodjia gets there later this year. People eagerly anticipate the return of another in Chester. And we wonder why we couldn't maintain Smith's high tempo pressing game...
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 09, 2019, 01:39:32 PM
We have big support home and away. We have zero patience though and are probably amongst the quickest to turn in a game. That's a pressure maybe some of them steuggle with.

The issue with the squad is the deficiency in key areas that are critical to a fast paced, quick presing game. The full backs are desperate and the midfield is dire.

Grealish and McGinn are very good. Carroll may well prove to be the accurate string puller we need, but Hourihane cannt make a long pass, cannot track or tackle. Whelan and Jedinak are slower than tectonic plates, Landsbury is never fit and BB is just poor.

We're reaping the benefit of Bruce and RDM awful recruitment policy. We can see what Smith is trying to do and how we need to re-shape. But the form has dropped and we're only playing in fits and starts.

We demolished a side top of the league in 15 minutes. Just a pity they were 3 nil up at the time. To be able to do that and have the mental strength to do that does bode well.

But what we're doing selection wise isn't working.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: gpbarr on February 09, 2019, 01:54:29 PM
Quote from: KevinGage on February 09, 2019, 12:58:11 PM
From the moment you step into just about any job you are judged.

Why should football management be any different.

Any failed manager (and I am by no means saying that applies to DS) can point to a myriad of excuses. Not signing the players you wanted or having a squad just to your liking usually feature high on that list.

But the better managers find a way.

They get results in trying circumstances and bring just enough success to give themselves that bit of security early on.

He has known since he took the job (and probably before it, with his Villa connections)  that this is a talented squad. One of the most talented in the division personnel-wise. But it is unbalanced. And we are ropey defensively. Mings apart, the incoming deals don't look like they have gone a huge way to addressing that.

But it isn’t one of the most talented in the league - that’s been proven for three seasons now. It’s old, lazy, and selfish. As Chris said, judging any manager before he has had a chance to stamp his authority, get his coaching across, and upgrade talent is fools gold
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Neil Hawkes on February 09, 2019, 01:57:45 PM
Quote from: brontebilly on February 09, 2019, 11:26:56 AM
Quote from: Dave P on February 09, 2019, 10:02:27 AM
It’s been said before, but consider that we are without Grealish, Axel and been forced to play Chester half fit for two months. Couple that with the fact it wasn’t his team to start with.

Its his team as soon as he signed his contract at Villa Park and Smith's job is to get the best out of resources at his disposal

Sorry, Im not buying that argument at all nor did I when Bruce came in first
Surely you have just contradicted yourself - Bruce could not get a tune out of his team, when Jack & Axel were fit and playing - DS has not been able to get a consistent tune out of most of the Bruce team, when Jack & Axel were injured & Chester was playing with an injury.
Criticism is only constructive with an alternative proposal, otherwise it just comes across as "fix it, but I have no idea what with" attitude.
I'm waiting for the majority of the team to be his chosen players, before I cast judgement.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KevinGage on February 09, 2019, 01:59:51 PM
Quote from: gpbarr on February 09, 2019, 01:54:29 PM
Quote from: KevinGage on February 09, 2019, 12:58:11 PM
From the moment you step into just about any job you are judged.

Why should football management be any different.

Any failed manager (and I am by no means saying that applies to DS) can point to a myriad of excuses. Not signing the players you wanted or having a squad just to your liking usually feature high on that list.

But the better managers find a way.

They get results in trying circumstances and bring just enough success to give themselves that bit of security early on.

He has known since he took the job (and probably before it, with his Villa connections)  that this is a talented squad. One of the most talented in the division personnel-wise. But it is unbalanced. And we are ropey defensively. Mings apart, the incoming deals don't look like they have gone a huge way to addressing that.

But it isn’t one of the most talented in the league - that’s been proven for three seasons now. It’s old, lazy, and selfish. As Chris said, judging any manager before he has had a chance to stamp his authority, get his coaching across, and upgrade talent is fools gold

Sorry, but I didn't look at that Sheff Utd side (or the Wigan side or the Swansea side or any other side who've put three goals past us recently) and felt we'd be doing well to keep the score down.

If our squad isn't inferior to those sides (and it isn't) then the bloke charged with finding the right blend to beat them has to share some of the responsibility when we don't.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sirlordbaltimore on February 09, 2019, 02:15:58 PM


There have been a LOT of our supporters piping on about us having the best squad in the league for three seasons now. And to my mind it's been solely based on what we've spent not the actual players talent. We haven't had a decent team once in all that time to my eyes. We've had some great moments and it's been a weirdly enjoyable ride at times but we've never looked like a proper team consistently.

There will be VERY few clubs in this league casting an envious eye over the likes of Taylor, Hutton, Jedinak, Whelan, Hourihane, Kodjia, Elmo, Lansbury, Bjanason etc. They're all just very very bog standard footballers even at this level.

Last night on the way home from the match in a desperate search for some radio thoughts on the match we came across Talksport and the two Mikes or whatever it's called. By the time they eventually got around to taking some callers an absolute weapon (claiming to be a Villa supporter) came on and the first words out of his gob we're 'we're Aston Villa, we won the European Cup' for which he got thoroughly ridiculed and rightly so.

Unbelievable. We have too many of these supporters who just haven't moved on and realised it's no longer 1982. I'm of that vintage and i don't feel the need to keep banging on about it like it's somehow relevant at all in this day and age. It beggars belief people still bang on about it.

You can't compare now to then or expect it to mean anything to anyone outside of B6 under the age of 40.

The club you support is the one you watched last night. Deal with it and stop living on past glories. Nobody is interested.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sickbeggar on February 09, 2019, 02:18:01 PM
I'm in the "actually our squad is bobbins" group. We fell well short our first season down here, last season was due almost entirely to players not here anymore, injured or now well over the hill, so yeah we're about where our squad warrants atm with Grealish and Tuanzebe missing
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chris Smith on February 09, 2019, 02:23:15 PM
Quote from: KevinGage on February 09, 2019, 01:59:51 PM
Quote from: gpbarr on February 09, 2019, 01:54:29 PM
Quote from: KevinGage on February 09, 2019, 12:58:11 PM
From the moment you step into just about any job you are judged.

Why should football management be any different.

Any failed manager (and I am by no means saying that applies to DS) can point to a myriad of excuses. Not signing the players you wanted or having a squad just to your liking usually feature high on that list.

But the better managers find a way.

They get results in trying circumstances and bring just enough success to give themselves that bit of security early on.

He has known since he took the job (and probably before it, with his Villa connections)  that this is a talented squad. One of the most talented in the division personnel-wise. But it is unbalanced. And we are ropey defensively. Mings apart, the incoming deals don't look like they have gone a huge way to addressing that.

But it isn’t one of the most talented in the league - that’s been proven for three seasons now. It’s old, lazy, and selfish. As Chris said, judging any manager before he has had a chance to stamp his authority, get his coaching across, and upgrade talent is fools gold

Sorry, but I didn't look at that Sheff Utd side (or the Wigan side or the Swansea side or any other side who've put three goals past us recently) and felt we'd be doing well to keep the score down.

If our squad isn't inferior to those sides (and it isn't) then the bloke charged with finding the right blend to beat them has to share some of the responsibility when we don't.

The squad is a collection of players rather than a coherent entity. That is why we see such marked inconsistency which last night encapsulated perfectly. Terrible for long periods but then irresistible for the final few minutes. This is a mess of years in the making and it is naive to imagine it can be fixed in a matter of months.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: luke95 on February 09, 2019, 02:27:00 PM
Quote from: sirlordbaltimore on February 09, 2019, 02:15:58 PM
Last night on the way home from the match in a desperate search for some radio thoughts on the match we came across Talksport and the two Mikes or whatever it's called. By the time they eventually got around to taking some callers an absolute weapon (claiming to be a Villa supporter) came on and the first words out of his gob we're 'we're Aston Villa, we won the European Cup' for which he got thoroughly ridiculed and rightly so.

Unbelievable. We have too many of these supporters who just haven't moved on and realised it's no longer 1982. I'm of that vintage and i don't feel the need to keep banging on about it like it's somehow relevant at all in this day and age. It beggars belief people still bang on about it.

You can't compare now to then or expect it to mean anything to anyone outside of B6 under the age of 40.

The club you support is the one you watched last night. Deal with it and stop living on past glories. Nobody is interested.


I agree on this ,  Time a lot of our fan base realised we're no longer the club we once were & lowered their expectations
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on February 09, 2019, 02:29:16 PM
Quote from: KevinGage on February 09, 2019, 01:59:51 PM
Quote from: gpbarr on February 09, 2019, 01:54:29 PM
Quote from: KevinGage on February 09, 2019, 12:58:11 PM
From the moment you step into just about any job you are judged.

Why should football management be any different.

Any failed manager (and I am by no means saying that applies to DS) can point to a myriad of excuses. Not signing the players you wanted or having a squad just to your liking usually feature high on that list.

But the better managers find a way.

They get results in trying circumstances and bring just enough success to give themselves that bit of security early on.

He has known since he took the job (and probably before it, with his Villa connections)  that this is a talented squad. One of the most talented in the division personnel-wise. But it is unbalanced. And we are ropey defensively. Mings apart, the incoming deals don't look like they have gone a huge way to addressing that.

But it isn’t one of the most talented in the league - that’s been proven for three seasons now. It’s old, lazy, and selfish. As Chris said, judging any manager before he has had a chance to stamp his authority, get his coaching across, and upgrade talent is fools gold

Sorry, but I didn't look at that Sheff Utd side (or the Wigan side or the Swansea side or any other side who've put three goals past us recently) and felt we'd be doing well to keep the score down.

If our squad isn't inferior to those sides (and it isn't) then the bloke charged with finding the right blend to beat them has to share some of the responsibility when we don't.

But it is. They're showing week after week that they're incapable of playing a brand of football as it's now widely practiced, even in this division. Bobbins virtually to a man.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on February 09, 2019, 02:32:11 PM
The individuals are good enough. The team isn't.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: jwarry on February 09, 2019, 02:32:16 PM
I think it’s safe to say Dean knows where  the problems are and that the players are not good enough. He managed to get a keeper and CB but could t secure a LB. he knows midfield is a problem and tried to get two in in Carroll and Fer.  Yes he’s struggling to get a tune out of them now but let’s face it, we still have too many weak links so I don’t buy the squad is god enough argument
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on February 09, 2019, 02:35:16 PM
Bruce bought players to suit the way he sets his teams up to play. They aren't suited to the way Smith wants the team to play. He needs the summer to sell and replace players.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: gpbarr on February 09, 2019, 02:38:17 PM
Talent is just part of the equation - attitude and desire is just as important and these players have shown consistently they don’t possess the combo required.

Aside 2 or 3 I expect a huge overhaul in the summer - and I trust DS to get that right
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sickbeggar on February 09, 2019, 02:39:18 PM
Quote from: luke95 on February 09, 2019, 02:27:00 PM
Quote from: sirlordbaltimore on February 09, 2019, 02:15:58 PM
Last night on the way home from the match in a desperate search for some radio thoughts on the match we came across Talksport and the two Mikes or whatever it's called. By the time they eventually got around to taking some callers an absolute weapon (claiming to be a Villa supporter) came on and the first words out of his gob we're 'we're Aston Villa, we won the European Cup' for which he got thoroughly ridiculed and rightly so.

Unbelievable. We have too many of these supporters who just haven't moved on and realised it's no longer 1982. I'm of that vintage and i don't feel the need to keep banging on about it like it's somehow relevant at all in this day and age. It beggars belief people still bang on about it.

You can't compare now to then or expect it to mean anything to anyone outside of B6 under the age of 40.

The club you support is the one you watched last night. Deal with it and stop living on past glories. Nobody is interested.


I agree on this ,  Time a lot of our fan base realised we're no longer the club we once were & lowered their expectations

I'm not sure many of our fans expect us to be challenging for a CL place apart from the odd delusional one. What we are guilty of, and it's a common fault among football fans, is expecting a new coach to sprinkle magic dust on crap players and get a tune out of them. Well maybe Smith's style doesn't get the best out of all of them, but in some cases they're just not that good players, and in the case of the likes of Jedinak, whelan and hutton unless he's got some miracle anti-aging dust available i'm not sure what he can do.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on February 09, 2019, 02:39:47 PM
Quote from: Damo70 on February 09, 2019, 02:35:16 PM
Bruce bought players to suit the way he sets his teams up to play. They aren't suited to the way Smith wants the team to play. He needs the summer to sell and replace players.
Bruce put no such thought into signing players unfortunately.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 09, 2019, 02:55:40 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on February 09, 2019, 02:39:47 PM
Quote from: Damo70 on February 09, 2019, 02:35:16 PM
Bruce bought players to suit the way he sets his teams up to play. They aren't suited to the way Smith wants the team to play. He needs the summer to sell and replace players.
Bruce put no such thought into signing players unfortunately.

Was just going to say the same. Bruce just bought players who were doing OK for their team at the time with no thought as to how to fit them into a squad or way of playing.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on February 09, 2019, 07:15:02 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 09, 2019, 02:55:40 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on February 09, 2019, 02:39:47 PM
Quote from: Damo70 on February 09, 2019, 02:35:16 PM
Bruce bought players to suit the way he sets his teams up to play. They aren't suited to the way Smith wants the team to play. He needs the summer to sell and replace players.
Bruce put no such thought into signing players unfortunately.

Was just going to say the same. Bruce just bought players who were doing OK for their team at the time with no thought as to how to fit them into a squad or way of playing.

Absolutely.

Scott Hogan and Ross McCormack are two (very expensive) examples of that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on February 09, 2019, 07:15:52 PM
Actually, thinking about it, RDM bought McCormack didn't he?

So ignore that. The Hogan point still stands though!!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on February 09, 2019, 07:22:14 PM
Stoke are in a bigger mess than we are.

Now there's a talented lower league manager who's failed to impose his way of thinking on the squad. Maybe they'll be better next season but they need a big overhaul.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on February 09, 2019, 07:38:09 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on February 09, 2019, 02:32:11 PM
Some of ... The individuals are good enough; many aren’t. The team isn't.
is my view
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Leicester_Villian on February 09, 2019, 07:40:20 PM
From last nights starting line up it would be no surprise if the only starter next season is the keeper .... possibly Tommy to
SJM will have moved on .... the loans will all have gone and the rest aren't good enough or out of contract
I don't think we really understood what a poor squad Bruce had assembled ...no plan
Until Dean can get players in to play his style its pointless moaning at him - just be sensible there does the high tempo come with the current midfield he has to pick from?  Watching Jedi lsdt night I am not sure he would have won a 50 yards sprint against Micah Richards. It was summed up when Whelan came on and the temp increased .....and we know he is not suited to a high tempo game
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ROBBO on February 09, 2019, 07:47:13 PM
I said before the game that Smith should warn players they would be dragged if not performing, it was obvious after thirty minutes that Jedinak and Kodja for different reasons were not performing as a sign to the rest of the squad he should have pulled both before half time.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on February 09, 2019, 07:51:49 PM
Weres this idea that McGinn will be gone next season come from? I'm seeing it more and more. People talking as if its a foregone conclusion and its already happened.
Theres not a fucking chance that he will be gone, not a single chance that we will sell him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on February 09, 2019, 07:56:01 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on February 09, 2019, 07:22:14 PM
Stoke are in a bigger mess than we are.

Now there's a talented lower league manager who's failed to impose his way of thinking on the squad. Maybe they'll be better next season but they need a big overhaul.

Which also makes the job Darren Moore has done at Albion really since he took over all the more impressive. They might very well go up this season and avoid the mess Stoke are going to find themselves in this summer and into next season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on February 09, 2019, 08:00:54 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on February 09, 2019, 07:56:01 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on February 09, 2019, 07:22:14 PM
Stoke are in a bigger mess than we are.

Now there's a talented lower league manager who's failed to impose his way of thinking on the squad. Maybe they'll be better next season but they need a big overhaul.

Which also makes the job Darren Moore has done at Albion really since he took over all the more impressive. They might very well go up this season and avoid the mess Stoke are going to find themselves in this summer and into next season.

Whenever I watch West Brom they don't impress me that much tbh. Think they've very much like us last season. lots of experienced heads at the back and in midfield and got players of real quality in final third like Gayle who decide games even when they're poor.

Think they'll be same as us, not good enough for top 2 and hopefully losing play off finalists.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on February 09, 2019, 08:04:35 PM
What worried me last night was the number of times we had the ball and looked like we genuinely didn't know what to do with it. Players really not knowing what to do, the defence passing it between themselves until inevitably one of them got put under pressure, the number of passes which were at best 50/50 balls, the failure to show anything looking like movement off the ball (especially from throw ins, which was just horrible to watch).

The worst thing about the first 80 minutes was not just that we were shit, it was that we looked like we didn't even know what we were supposed to be trying to do, let alone just failing to execute something.

That's what concerns me about DS. Maybe the players aren't up to exactly how he wants them to play, but they're the players he has, he has got to roll with the flow and get a tune out of them.

The final result last night massively hides the underlying problem that we look disorganised from back to front. That's frightening.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on February 09, 2019, 08:05:06 PM
Quote from: Neil Hawkes on February 09, 2019, 01:57:45 PM
Quote from: brontebilly on February 09, 2019, 11:26:56 AM
Quote from: Dave P on February 09, 2019, 10:02:27 AM
It’s been said before, but consider that we are without Grealish, Axel and been forced to play Chester half fit for two months. Couple that with the fact it wasn’t his team to start with.

Its his team as soon as he signed his contract at Villa Park and Smith's job is to get the best out of resources at his disposal

Sorry, Im not buying that argument at all nor did I when Bruce came in first
Surely you have just contradicted yourself - Bruce could not get a tune out of his team, when Jack & Axel were fit and playing - DS has not been able to get a consistent tune out of most of the Bruce team, when Jack & Axel were injured & Chester was playing with an injury.
Criticism is only constructive with an alternative proposal, otherwise it just comes across as "fix it, but I have no idea what with" attitude.
I'm waiting for the majority of the team to be his chosen players, before I cast judgement.

I'm talking 're Bruce when he came in first post RDM when the target was certainly getting us into the play-off race. That led to panic buying in Jan of that season before the season was written off soon after. It's happened again for Smith here. They aren't his players, needs a couple of transfer windows, players need time to adapt to his system etc. It's the same excuses Bruce, Hughes, Pardew, MON would trot out. Smith had no problem with the same players when things were going well early on.

In terms of fixing, Smith hasn't adapted at all since Grealish got injured. Still playing the same formation when 2 up top could and should have been tried. Motivational wise he seems to be really struggling with a core of the team, it's not all about age, look at Billy Sharp last night for example.

Our Jan transfer business pretty much contradicted all Smith's sound bites. Spending 7m on a keeper when we already had a match fit Steer and glaring holes elsewhere. Signing Mings and Hause on loan to effectively compete for same position while Taylor remains first choice left back. A cluster fuck in midfield, with Fer considered and then Carroll brought in at the last minute, to resolve the biggest problem area in the team, the holding midfielder role, neither of which could or will fix it.

I'm all for giving Smith time but reasoned analysis shouldn't be dumbed down because of the reasons you are giving. The manager is really struggling and the evidence is in our results.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on February 09, 2019, 08:05:30 PM
Funny you saying that, from the outside looking in I think Moore's doing a very good job but my two Albion mates from work are not overly keen on him, saying he's a good motivator but not tactically aware. Sounds like a younger Bruce and your description of them sounds like they could be managed by Bruce.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on February 09, 2019, 08:19:04 PM
Give them that under Pardew whey we’re a disaster, Moore took over too late to turn them around even though results really improved. Then after they came down with limited experience of management he’s turned them into promotion contenders immediately. They’re sitting 5 points off top so Albion fans need to fucking get a grip if they are questioning the job Moore is doing.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on February 09, 2019, 09:29:24 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on February 09, 2019, 08:19:04 PM
Give them that under Pardew whey we’re a disaster, Moore took over too late to turn them around even though results really improved. Then after they came down with limited experience of management he’s turned them into promotion contenders immediately. They’re sitting 5 points off top so Albion fans need to fucking get a grip if they are questioning the job Moore is doing.

Said something similar to two WBA fans (who are ok, but don’t go!)
In my local about an hour ago. They both think we will beat them, not sure if they were taking the piss!!!!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OzVilla on February 09, 2019, 09:31:43 PM
I notice on Twitter quite a few of the players mentioning the strong ‘team spirit’.

It rankles with me a bit as we’ve had loads of abject days like Wigan or Reading, where was the ‘team spirit’ then?

We are a side bumbling around mid table in the championship who’ve spent more than enough the last few years to be expecting much better and they crap on about ‘team spirit’. Smoke and mirrors to me.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on February 09, 2019, 09:42:34 PM
In the first 82 minutes of last night's game I cannot remember ever seeing so many instances of Villa players doing the raised arm gesture "apologising" for wild, stupid, can't be arsed, over hit, under hit, straight into touch passes. If that is team spirit I would prefer them to hate each other and pass the ball properly.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on February 09, 2019, 09:49:47 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on February 09, 2019, 08:19:04 PM
Give them that under Pardew whey we’re a disaster, Moore took over too late to turn them around even though results really improved. Then after they came down with limited experience of management he’s turned them into promotion contenders immediately. They’re sitting 5 points off top so Albion fans need to fucking get a grip if they are questioning the job Moore is doing.

If you get good forward players at this level you'll challenge. They have Gayle good for 20-25 goals and Harvey Barnes was in amazing form up to being recalled in January. Phillips is also a good player although injured atm. They've also added Jefferson Montero and Jacob Murphy into the mix.

Yes we've got Tammy but think how bad our wide players are compared to last season when Adomah went on his amazing scoring run and Snodgrass delivered excellent performances on the other side.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: adrenachrome on February 09, 2019, 09:54:18 PM
Quote from: brian green on February 09, 2019, 09:42:34 PM
In the first 82 minutes of last night's game I cannot remember ever seeing so many instances of Villa players doing the raised arm gesture "apologising" for wild, stupid, can't be arsed, over hit, under hit, straight into touch passes. If that is team spirit I would prefer them to hate each other and pass the ball properly.

An interesting observation, Brian.

I think the game plan was to let them shag themselves out with their frenetic pressing game and pick them off with long passes to set up counter attacks. Quite a few PL teams are doing this now, to great effect.

Didn't work out, as we witnessed.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on February 09, 2019, 10:10:38 PM
I think you are right adrena.  For all but the last tenth of the game it was as though our players, with the honourable exception of JMG and TM had been told to give the opposition plenty of room to move the ball about, like draughts on a draughts board, each with their own space.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on February 09, 2019, 10:38:31 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on February 09, 2019, 07:51:49 PM
Weres this idea that McGinn will be gone next season come from? I'm seeing it more and more. People talking as if its a foregone conclusion and its already happened.
Theres not a fucking chance that he will be gone, not a single chance that we will sell him.


It's the same with Grealish.  I think that both will still be at Villa next season.  I reckon Smith will alter the midfield to give us a 4231 to fit them both in to the side comfortably and will find the other three midfield players to protect the two of them.  Next season will be our year.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Marlon From Bearwood on February 09, 2019, 11:30:01 PM
This might be an unpopular opinion but I don’t think McGinn is good enough for the PL
(at the moment) so I can’t see anyone paying huge money for him.

Don’t get me wrong, I love watching him play - his work rate is phenomenal and he’s hugely important to us in this division. I just think his final pass or shot lacks the consistent quality needed to play at the top level.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: andyh on February 09, 2019, 11:51:09 PM
Quote from: Newby on February 09, 2019, 10:38:31 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on February 09, 2019, 07:51:49 PM
Weres this idea that McGinn will be gone next season come from? I'm seeing it more and more. People talking as if its a foregone conclusion and its already happened.
Theres not a fucking chance that he will be gone, not a single chance that we will sell him.


It's the same with Grealish.  I think that both will still be at Villa next season.  I reckon Smith will alter the midfield to give us a 4231 to fit them both in to the side comfortably and will find the other three midfield players to protect the two of them.  Next season will be our year.
The saving grace for us regarding jack is his “injury”.
Who is going to shell out what the club wants on a player who has an injury like this that is a little ‘no specific’ that could potentially be a recurring thing.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on February 09, 2019, 11:59:06 PM
That's partly my thinking Andy.  I also can't see Spuds coming back in for him and I think he'll give us a proper year under Smith.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on February 10, 2019, 12:08:55 AM
Quote from: Marlon From Bearwood on February 09, 2019, 11:30:01 PM
This might be an unpopular opinion but I don’t think McGinn is good enough for the PL
(at the moment) so I can’t see anyone paying huge money for him.

Don’t get me wrong, I love watching him play - his work rate is phenomenal and he’s hugely important to us in this division. I just think his final pass or shot lacks the consistent quality needed to play at the top level.

I have to agree. We're now nine years from a top six PL finish. At each level of our descent, our reckoning of what constitutes a good player has receded accordingly.

Last summer, Chester. Nah.

Likewise Johnstone, top 6 keeper? I know he wasn't ours anyway, back in this division.

Grealish. For all the conjecture, it was one club. One. With a derisory bid.

Window just gone, Abraham back to Chelsea. To spearhead their CL push?

Alan Hutton, new contract. That's our level.

I love McGinn, he's a joy to watch. I wish they all displayed his industry. I hope he improves as we do. But right now, talk of him being off in the summer, that's just not happening. Not to the PL, anyway.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on February 10, 2019, 12:34:41 AM
Quote from: Newby on February 09, 2019, 11:59:06 PM
That's partly my thinking Andy.  I also can't see Spuds coming back in for him and I think he'll give us a proper year under Smith.

Flip side is he's coming up to mid 20s and a player of his quality simply needs to be back in premier league sooner than later. I really respect his loyalty and know he wants to get us back up there but for a start his international ambitions are on hold playing down here and that will be one thought crossing his mind.

With McGinn a little different. Hasn't been down here long and while clubs are looking I agree they might decide he's not quite ready. Think it would be more Burnley or Brighton standard looking at him and doubt either could afford what we'd demand.

Said it before but I'd make him captain in the summer and really make sure he knows he's valued.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on February 10, 2019, 12:50:15 AM
I don't think McGinn is going anywhere.

If we can hold on to Grealish and get a proper left back I think we'll play a 4231 with Grealish on the left of the 3 and tucked in so he can go inside or out, I suspect we'll pick up someone to do the same on the other side and then have Green to cover them both (and I'd push RHM into a similar role because I think he's very good at going through the channel between the full back and centre back and getting shots away across the keeper).

I think he likes McGinn playing further forward because his work rate putting pressure on the defensive midfielder and centre backs could be really effective.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 10, 2019, 01:13:24 AM
A league table based on the games we’ve played since he joined has us in 10th. Not at all good enough. Given our upcoming run I don’t think that will improve any time soon.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Axl Rose on February 10, 2019, 05:44:11 AM
Quote from: Risso on February 10, 2019, 01:13:24 AM
A league table based on the games we’ve played since he joined has us in 10th. Not at all good enough. Given our upcoming run I don’t think that will improve any time soon.

I agree. Smith, nor the players have been good enough overall.

Some players need to hang their heads in embarrassment for the way they've attempted to play football.

I look forward to seeing the back of pretty much all the starting eleven, with the exception of a few.

Defence has been shocking all year, midfield either lightweight or pedestrian, strikers...well, apart from Abraham nobody else has really contributed.

Player of the season so far-Grealish...and he has been injured for what, two months?

Special mentions for Abraham, McGinn and Tuanzebe.

Happy to see Green back, and think Chester needs a rest before looking better when he plays alongside Mings. Think Kalinic and Nyland will be a decent one and two in the goalkeeping positions.

The rest-crap.

Much to improve and hope Smith sorts the whole damn place out this summer.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Matt Collins on February 10, 2019, 06:26:47 AM
Don't think mcginn will go. Grealish may tho like others I'm not sure who the buyer will be

When both fit surely Smith will play the 433 he played at Brentford and which we had our best form all season, with the two of them as number 8s

Dont think grealish will play wide. Current form shows we desperately need his creativity in the middle

The big challenge this summer will be getting a whole new front three. Probably on a relative shoe string

We may actually be better off selling grealish to help fund squad building, even if none of us want that
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on February 10, 2019, 07:11:31 AM
The critical positions remain LB and a dynamic holding MF.
The best thing about this summer will be the disposal of several out-of-contract old timers
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on February 10, 2019, 07:45:10 AM
I don't think SJM will go but I can understand why some people think he will.

You can't tell me Ashley Westwood is better than him, for example. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on February 10, 2019, 09:08:04 AM
Massive summer ahead  a catharsis if ever there was one.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Matt Collins on February 10, 2019, 09:11:17 AM
I think there might be interested parties for mcginn

I just think we'll take a tough position especially if grealish goes

I think the critical position is the attack. Abraham is the only one really doing it and he won't be here. Replacing an entire front three is going to be a tough ask

Lolley Maupay and Bowen would be amazing. But surely only a possibility if grealish goes and even then a stretch

I know we only want loans to buy. But faced with the cold reality of another season of adomah and el ghazi, or a harry Wilson type. Well I can see us going down the latter route
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 10, 2019, 09:45:10 AM
There will be loads of clubs in for Jack and SJM. And with the miniscule fee we paid for the latter, if we get say £50m for them both, that’s practically all profit.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 10, 2019, 09:45:55 AM
Quote from: Matt Collins on February 10, 2019, 09:11:17 AM
I think there might be interested parties for mcginn

I just think we'll take a tough position especially if grealish goes

I think the critical position is the attack. Abraham is the only one really doing it and he won't be here. Replacing an entire front three is going to be a tough ask

Lolley Maupay and Bowen would be amazing. But surely only a possibility if grealish goes and even then a stretch

I know we only want loans to buy. But faced with the cold reality of another season of adomah and el ghazi, or a harry Wilson type. Well I can see us going down the latter route

Lolley has just signed a big new contract at Forest.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on February 10, 2019, 10:03:11 AM
so has Grealish, but it probably won't stop him leaving, it just means someone will pay for Lolly for Lolley
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on February 10, 2019, 10:13:18 AM
Grealish may possibly want to move on but McGinn seems the type who'd want to stick around for a bit and try and get us back up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on February 10, 2019, 10:24:37 AM
Quote from: Clampy on February 10, 2019, 10:13:18 AM
Grealish may possibly want to move on but McGinn seems the type who'd want to stick around for a bit and try and get us back up.

depends who if anyone comes in for him

If someone decent comes in and offers to quadruple his wages I’m not sure helping us get out of the championship will seem so attractive
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: walsall villain on February 10, 2019, 10:35:47 AM
Quote from: john e on February 10, 2019, 10:24:37 AM
Quote from: Clampy on February 10, 2019, 10:13:18 AM
Grealish may possibly want to move on but McGinn seems the type who'd want to stick around for a bit and try and get us back up.

depends who if anyone comes in for him

If someone decent comes in and offers to quadruple his wages I’m not sure helping us get out of the championship will seem so attractive
After a recent game our mate Franksy said on WM that ‘Mcginn and Grealish will go in the summer if Villa don’t go up, fact’. So I’m totally confident neither will be leaving.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on February 10, 2019, 10:37:44 AM
Quote from: Clampy on February 10, 2019, 10:13:18 AM
Grealish may possibly want to move on but McGinn seems the type who'd want to stick around for a bit and try and get us back up.

Using what logic?

McGinn joined us over Celtic last summer for money.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on February 10, 2019, 10:39:45 AM
Quote from: brontebilly on February 10, 2019, 10:37:44 AM
Quote from: Clampy on February 10, 2019, 10:13:18 AM
Grealish may possibly want to move on but McGinn seems the type who'd want to stick around for a bit and try and get us back up.

Using what logic?

McGinn joined us over Celtic last summer for money.

Or maybe he wanted to play in England as well. Some players do. I'm not suggesting he will stick around forever, but I get the sense he'd want to try and have another crack at getting us back up rather than leaving after one season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 10, 2019, 10:41:30 AM
Anybody who can quadruple the wages we pay is aiming for Champions League football.

I don't think McGinn will go anywhere. Anybody with a modicum of ambition would want to play in England as opposed to Scotland. He's on a long contract and for good money.

If any player is part of an FFP solution it is Grealish. One may go, but not both.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chris Smith on February 10, 2019, 10:41:41 AM
Quote from: john e on February 10, 2019, 10:24:37 AM
Quote from: Clampy on February 10, 2019, 10:13:18 AM
Grealish may possibly want to move on but McGinn seems the type who'd want to stick around for a bit and try and get us back up.

depends who if anyone comes in for him

If someone decent comes in and offers to quadruple his wages I’m not sure helping us get out of the championship will seem so attractive

I agree but at the same time I doubt that the type of club that might be able to afford to quadruple his wages are going to be looking at him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 10, 2019, 10:44:53 AM
I think just playing in the Premier League would be a big enough draw. And he wouldn’t have to quadruple his wages, but he would earn a lot more.

And let’s be honest, the chances of us going up any time soon are fairly remote.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on February 10, 2019, 10:46:46 AM
Quote from: Chris Smith on February 10, 2019, 10:41:41 AM
Quote from: john e on February 10, 2019, 10:24:37 AM
Quote from: Clampy on February 10, 2019, 10:13:18 AM
Grealish may possibly want to move on but McGinn seems the type who'd want to stick around for a bit and try and get us back up.

depends who if anyone comes in for him

If someone decent comes in and offers to quadruple his wages I’m not sure helping us get out of the championship will seem so attractive

I agree but at the same time I doubt that the type of club that might be able to afford to quadruple his wages are going to be looking at him.

if your right we should be ok then

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on February 10, 2019, 03:32:38 PM
Quote from: KevinGage on February 09, 2019, 12:58:11 PM
From the moment you step into just about any job you are judged.
However you are given a reasonable period of time to understand your role , learn the ropes, gain experience and then contribute.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on February 10, 2019, 04:08:18 PM
You also have to alter the culture at the club.  They were trained to play a particular style under Steve Bruce that Smith would be trying to change over a longer term period.  Bruce wept about having to alter the losing mentality at the club after her took over from RDM.  Smith has to remove the anti-football culture.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villa75 on February 10, 2019, 04:21:51 PM
Quote from: olaftab on February 10, 2019, 03:32:38 PM
Quote from: KevinGage on February 09, 2019, 12:58:11 PM
From the moment you step into just about any job you are judged.
However you are given a reasonable period of time to understand your role , learn the ropes, gain experience and then contribute.

As an 17/18 year old apprentice working in a new job, yes. Not as a manager, in any walk of life I've ever known.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on February 10, 2019, 04:39:31 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on February 10, 2019, 04:21:51 PM
Quote from: olaftab on February 10, 2019, 03:32:38 PM
Quote from: KevinGage on February 09, 2019, 12:58:11 PM
From the moment you step into just about any job you are judged.
However you are given a reasonable period of time to understand your role , learn the ropes, gain experience and then contribute.

As an 17/18 year old apprentice working in a new job, yes. Not as a manager, in any walk of life I've ever known.

I disagree with you.  It really does make a difference when you are having to win the loyalty of the players, teach them different things, ask them to play and think differently.  Smith is not beyond criticism in the way that he has utilised some of the players at times, his subs etc but he's been in the role for only one window and clearly needs to alter the squad some more.  Management may be the principle but football isn't like running an office, HR department or Chinese Takeaway. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on February 10, 2019, 04:43:22 PM
Well I was  on six months probation in every senior managerial job I had. it was trial by more senior management than me.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy65 on February 10, 2019, 05:11:19 PM
Quote from: Newby on February 10, 2019, 04:39:31 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on February 10, 2019, 04:21:51 PM
Quote from: olaftab on February 10, 2019, 03:32:38 PM
Quote from: KevinGage on February 09, 2019, 12:58:11 PM
From the moment you step into just about any job you are judged.
However you are given a reasonable period of time to understand your role , learn the ropes, gain experience and then contribute.

As an 17/18 year old apprentice working in a new job, yes. Not as a manager, in any walk of life I've ever known.

I disagree with you.  It really does make a difference when you are having to win the loyalty of the players, teach them different things, ask them to play and think differently.  Smith is not beyond criticism in the way that he has utilised some of the players at times, his subs etc but he's been in the role for only one window and clearly needs to alter the squad some more.  Management may be the principle but football isn't like running an office, HR department or Chinese Takeaway.

I would be more positive if I could see just any improvement. At the moment there appears to be none
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villatillidie25 on February 10, 2019, 05:23:06 PM
Isn’t the question we should all be answering:

Was the huge uptick in form where we blew teams away a result of
a) new manager bounce
b) genuine improvements made by Smith that have since unravelled as a result of grealish, tuanzebe, Chester injuries and a subsequent loss of confidence as results went against us

If you’re in camp a then I’d suggest smith might not work out (I’d say definitely too soon to say though) but camp b is slightly more optimistic and equally plausible
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on February 10, 2019, 05:39:46 PM
Quote from: Villatillidie25 on February 10, 2019, 05:23:06 PM
Isn’t the question we should all be answering:

Was the huge uptick in form where we blew teams away a result of
a) new manager bounce
b) genuine improvements made by Smith that have since unravelled as a result of grealish, tuanzebe, Chester injuries and a subsequent loss of confidence as results went against us

If you’re in camp a then I’d suggest smith might not work out (I’d say definitely too soon to say though) but camp b is slightly more optimistic and equally plausible

I think there's a 3rd option as well which is that the pre-season fitness work wasn't enough to play at that tempo for more than a month or 2 and now we're seeing the dropoff in tempo because the fitness levels aren't there.

It could also be a combination of the 3 (which is where my thinking is right now).
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 10, 2019, 06:34:24 PM
I think the fitness thing is a complete red herring.  It isn't a lack of fitness hampering certain players, it's a lack of ability and/or confidence, combined with a lack of proper organisation from the manager.  Alan Hutton, even at 30+ is up and down the right hand side of the pitch all game.  It's not lack of fitness that makes him a liability, it's the inability to do his job as a defender properly.  With Hourihane, he just doesn't have the natural aggressive game to be a sitting midfielder.

I can't think of any player where you could honestly say that Bruce's pre-season regime is the cause of their inability to do their job properly, it's just that we have two many players who aren't very good.  A situation that we really should have done more to rectify in the recent transfer window.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on February 10, 2019, 06:47:28 PM
Correct.  We have too many sub standard players.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on February 10, 2019, 06:51:47 PM
Good post Risso, and all Smith can do is pick the same players as that's all he's got.  It would have been great to address another couple of the positions in the window, which I think was a bit disappointing over all as we only seemed to bring in a keeper and Mings to shore two of the five positions that I think needed sorting over the summer.   Hopefully, the left back, winger and deep lying midfielder issues will be resolved in the summer.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brassneck on February 10, 2019, 07:34:50 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 10, 2019, 06:34:24 PM
I think the fitness thing is a complete red herring.  It isn't a lack of fitness hampering certain players, it's a lack of ability and/or confidence, combined with a lack of proper organisation from the manager.  Alan Hutton, even at 30+ is up and down the right hand side of the pitch all game.  It's not lack of fitness that makes him a liability, it's the inability to do his job as a defender properly.  With Hourihane, he just doesn't have the natural aggressive game to be a sitting midfielder.

I can't think of any player where you could honestly say that Bruce's pre-season regime is the cause of their inability to do their job properly, it's just that we have two many players who aren't very good.  A situation that we really should have done more to rectify in the recent transfer window.

Do you actually watch the games?  If so, how do you possibly miss Hutton jogging back when the opponents break quickly?

Bruce's style is at complete opposite end of the spectrum to Smith's.  Bruce was quite happy to concede possession higher up the field without pressing.  We had no pace or energy throughout the side.  Leeds were in training 3 times a day in the summer.  I dare say that Norwich's pre-season was pretty intense as well.  Bruce's training would have been a holiday camp compared to those teams and the slow start we made to the last 2 campaigns is probably because other teams were out of the blocks quicker than we were; on the back of a better pre-season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: London Villan on February 10, 2019, 07:39:22 PM
Was Bruce back when pre-season kicked off?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on February 10, 2019, 07:41:47 PM
I don't blame the club for not doing more in the January window, it was always going to be difficult.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brassneck on February 10, 2019, 07:45:44 PM
Quote from: Clampy on February 10, 2019, 07:41:47 PM
I don't blame the club for not doing more in the January window, it was always going to be difficult.

I think we did OK - Certainly better than most.  If Fer had signed, most of us would be pretty satisfied with the window.  We addressed the GK & central defence.  We have a couple of options to make loans permanent and a new RB for next season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on February 10, 2019, 07:47:35 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 10, 2019, 06:34:24 PM
I think the fitness thing is a complete red herring.  It isn't a lack of fitness hampering certain players, it's a lack of ability and/or confidence, combined with a lack of proper organisation from the manager.  Alan Hutton, even at 30+ is up and down the right hand side of the pitch all game.  It's not lack of fitness that makes him a liability, it's the inability to do his job as a defender properly.  With Hourihane, he just doesn't have the natural aggressive game to be a sitting midfielder.

I can't think of any player where you could honestly say that Bruce's pre-season regime is the cause of their inability to do their job properly, it's just that we have two many players who aren't very good.  A situation that we really should have done more to rectify in the recent transfer window.

What I mean is that if we'd had a summer focusing on a high intensity, pressing style I think we'd be in a much better place. The way we played under Bruce was much more sedate and the players are just struggling with it. Maybe fitness isn't the right term but I think getting players to up the intensity regularly after coming in midway through the season was always going to be tough, I think that's why we have seen the team revert back to Bruce style (2 banks of players defending the box and trying to get the ball forward fast). I think the ability of the players to do it is just as big a part which is why I say I think it's a combination of things that have caused us to drop off.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villa75 on February 10, 2019, 07:55:25 PM
Not the "pre season" excuse again, please!?

We've got top professionals, with many years in the game, training our fit athletes. The overweight Steve Bruce would not have been in charge of their training regime any more than he would have been responsible for their dietary needs - thank god.

What I'm seeing on the pitch is not a team playing fantastic, flowing football for 75 minutes before, unfortunately, running out of steam and letting the opposition back into games. In Fact, from the word go in most matches, it looks more like a team that is confused and unsure of exactly what they should be doing with all of their energy.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brassneck on February 10, 2019, 08:04:27 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on February 10, 2019, 07:55:25 PM
Not the "pre season" excuse again, please!?

We've got top professionals, with many years in the game, training our fit athletes. The overweight Steve Bruce would not have been in charge of their training regime any more than he would have been responsible for their dietary needs - thank god.

What I'm seeing on the pitch is not a team playing fantastic, flowing football for 75 minutes before, unfortunately, running out of steam and letting the opposition back into games. In Fact, from the word go in most matches, it looks more like a team that is confused and unsure of exactly what they should be doing with all of their energy.

Of course Bruce would have been in charge of the training regime.  Are you seriously suggesting that these fitness coaches make it up as they go along or focus on what they want to without consulting Bruce?

You've posted some absolute crap on here over the past few weeks - Presumably to provoke reactions but the above nonsense is your most ridiculous yet.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ROBBO on February 10, 2019, 08:08:40 PM
Watching the Leeds-Norwich game made me realise how lacking in intensity we are, both teams were at it all game and although Norwich ran out winners it wasn't through lack of intensity on Leeds players part it was that Norwich had that little extra class. The last ten minutes of Fridays game is how we should play all game.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Smithy on February 10, 2019, 08:23:45 PM
I am completely happy to concede that it takes a manager time to get his players playing the way he wants, and to recruit players to do the job the way he likes it done. Particularly when it appears the old vs new styles are SO different. The thing I really DON'T understand is that the team seemed to improve SO quickly, and the style changed so rapidly when Smith first took over, that the current form and performances just feel like it's all gone backwards again.

How were the players able to implement Smith's way of playing so successfully against Bolton, Derby, Small Heath, Forest and Boro - all within a few short weeks of him taking over - and now after a few months they let the performances drop off and revert to something akin to the Bruce days?  Surely to God it can't ALL be down to losing Jack and Axel?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 10, 2019, 08:25:21 PM
Quote from: Brassneck on February 10, 2019, 07:45:44 PM
Quote from: Clampy on February 10, 2019, 07:41:47 PM
I don't blame the club for not doing more in the January window, it was always going to be difficult.

I think we did OK - Certainly better than most.  If Fer had signed, most of us would be pretty satisfied with the window.  We addressed the GK & central defence.  We have a couple of options to make loans permanent and a new RB for next season.

Utter, utter bollocks. We needed a right back, a left back and decent midfielder immediately. We got none of those.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on February 10, 2019, 08:31:43 PM
I'm sure if we weren't a second division side with an already stupidly high wage bill and FFP to think about we'd probably have signed more players than we did.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on February 10, 2019, 08:38:00 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 10, 2019, 08:25:21 PM
Quote from: Brassneck on February 10, 2019, 07:45:44 PM
Quote from: Clampy on February 10, 2019, 07:41:47 PM
I don't blame the club for not doing more in the January window, it was always going to be difficult.

I think we did OK - Certainly better than most.  If Fer had signed, most of us would be pretty satisfied with the window.  We addressed the GK & central defence.  We have a couple of options to make loans permanent and a new RB for next season.

Utter, utter bollocks. We needed a right back, a left back and decent midfielder immediately. We got none of those.

If you're right, whose responsibility was it?

It costs money to do what you suggest, and the prices are ridiculous in January as well as availability being limited.

Smith has to change the system, the players aren't up to it generally.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on February 10, 2019, 08:38:10 PM
I was distinctly underwhelmed by our business in the window.  However I have a feeling that Tyrone may be a gem. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on February 10, 2019, 08:39:57 PM
Quote from: Brassneck on February 10, 2019, 08:04:27 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on February 10, 2019, 07:55:25 PM
Not the "pre season" excuse again, please!?

We've got top professionals, with many years in the game, training our fit athletes. The overweight Steve Bruce would not have been in charge of their training regime any more than he would have been responsible for their dietary needs - thank god.

What I'm seeing on the pitch is not a team playing fantastic, flowing football for 75 minutes before, unfortunately, running out of steam and letting the opposition back into games. In Fact, from the word go in most matches, it looks more like a team that is confused and unsure of exactly what they should be doing with all of their energy.

Of course Bruce would have been in charge of the training regime.  Are you seriously suggesting that these fitness coaches make it up as they go along or focus on what they want to without consulting Bruce?

You've posted some absolute crap on here over the past few weeks - Presumably to provoke reactions but the above nonsense is your most ridiculous yet.

Pretty much this. If you don't think Bruce was setting out what training he wanted or that the training he asked for is vastly different to what Brentford will have done then you're in a tiny minority.

If you use the term fitness lots of people do exactly what you did and assume that an unfit player can't last 90 minutes but that's just not how it works. If you're short of fitness the biggest effect is that you're half a yard off the pace. Look at someone like Fabian Delph, he kept getting booked and losing possession for the first season he broke through because he was lacking the sharpness that you get from being fully fit. Once he got that built up a lot of those problems disappeared.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT on February 10, 2019, 08:42:51 PM
Quote from: Smithy on February 10, 2019, 08:23:45 PM
I am completely happy to concede that it takes a manager time to get his players playing the way he wants, and to recruit players to do the job the way he likes it done. Particularly when it appears the old vs new styles are SO different. The thing I really DON'T understand is that the team seemed to improve SO quickly, and the style changed so rapidly when Smith first took over, that the current form and performances just feel like it's all gone backwards again.

How were the players able to implement Smith's way of playing so successfully against Bolton, Derby, Small Heath, Forest and Boro - all within a few short weeks of him taking over - and now after a few months they let the performances drop off and revert to something akin to the Bruce days?  Surely to God it can't ALL be down to losing Jack and Axel?

The Boro performance for me, especially looked very impressive. Against a Tony Pulis team, we absolutely dominated. We literally toyed with them a times, we were that good.

The stuff served up in 2019 has been completely different. I would say it won't help having certain players who seemed to have downed tools already mind you.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villa75 on February 10, 2019, 08:43:19 PM
Quote from: Brassneck on February 10, 2019, 08:04:27 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on February 10, 2019, 07:55:25 PM
Not the "pre season" excuse again, please!?

We've got top professionals, with many years in the game, training our fit athletes. The overweight Steve Bruce would not have been in charge of their training regime any more than he would have been responsible for their dietary needs - thank god.

What I'm seeing on the pitch is not a team playing fantastic, flowing football for 75 minutes before, unfortunately, running out of steam and letting the opposition back into games. In Fact, from the word go in most matches, it looks more like a team that is confused and unsure of exactly what they should be doing with all of their energy.

Of course Bruce would have been in charge of the training regime.  Are you seriously suggesting that these fitness coaches make it up as they go along or focus on what they want to without consulting Bruce?

You've posted some absolute crap on here over the past few weeks - Presumably to provoke reactions but the above nonsense is your most ridiculous yet.

You're talking shit.

Steve Bruce wouldn't know a modern training regime if it hit him in his ugly mug.

Bruce was, and is, an old fashioned 'Manager' with a coaching team in charge off fitness.

Guardiola/Pochettino he is not!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on February 10, 2019, 08:50:04 PM
Quote from: Brassneck on February 10, 2019, 08:04:27 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on February 10, 2019, 07:55:25 PM
Not the "pre season" excuse again, please!?

We've got top professionals, with many years in the game, training our fit athletes. The overweight Steve Bruce would not have been in charge of their training regime any more than he would have been responsible for their dietary needs - thank god.

What I'm seeing on the pitch is not a team playing fantastic, flowing football for 75 minutes before, unfortunately, running out of steam and letting the opposition back into games. In Fact, from the word go in most matches, it looks more like a team that is confused and unsure of exactly what they should be doing with all of their energy.

Of course Bruce would have been in charge of the training regime.  Are you seriously suggesting that these fitness coaches make it up as they go along or focus on what they want to without consulting Bruce?

You've posted some absolute crap on here over the past few weeks - Presumably to provoke reactions but the above nonsense is your most ridiculous yet.

I don't know about the 'villa75' other posts ? ( I'm sure it's as valid as next person - just because you don't agree no need to disparage his comments, dismissing is bad enough )

But he's spot on with this .
How you see it villa 75 looks quite  accurate .
The confusion = sloppy play.
A team is in transition and getting to terms with things .
Smith often mentions tactical switches in matches which then helps the players .


What 'our guy 75 ' said matches my thought in some of my perception and wisdom on villas play.
However I question that it's phases of matches where we have looked decidedly poor rather than 75 minutes
Sheffield utd was exceptionally weak though a few phases and cycles where villa on top.

Smith did question attitude when going 2 down and Whelan coming on was a master stroke as the experience head was cajoling and getting the play moving and just showing spirit and doing things right

Regards fitness, conditioning and diet Bruce has specialists so again villa 75 is accurate .

Btw if that's the posters age show the elder some respect ! He obviously been watching football for a long time !
(Show respect anyway!)

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on February 10, 2019, 08:51:13 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 10, 2019, 08:25:21 PM
Quote from: Brassneck on February 10, 2019, 07:45:44 PM
Quote from: Clampy on February 10, 2019, 07:41:47 PM
I don't blame the club for not doing more in the January window, it was always going to be difficult.

I think we did OK - Certainly better than most.  If Fer had signed, most of us would be pretty satisfied with the window.  We addressed the GK & central defence.  We have a couple of options to make loans permanent and a new RB for next season.

Utter, utter bollocks. We needed a right back, a left back and decent midfielder immediately. We got none of those.

Have to agree, comparing what we thought we needed before the window and what we got, it's hard to be particularly happy about our business.

FWIW I think a great part of our struggle at the moment is confidence. At numerous points during the Sheffield United match, we would have the ball and genuinely not know what to do with it, our players looked frozen. There was also even less movement off the ball than we have seen for several years (and it has been a problem for years on and off at Villa).

To a certain degree, the fragility of the defence must be contributing to that lack of confidence.

I also have to say, certain players look unarsed. Kodjia is the worst offender - he seems to be only interested in attempting to wriggle free when he's surrounded by three defenders - rather than give the ball to a team mate. If Darren Bent's main criticism was that he wasn't a team player, then Kodjia is even worse.

El Ghazi looks overweight to me and hardly breaks into anything beyond a trot, and when he has featured recently, Adomah also looks like he doesn't give that much of a shit.

Those are all failings which the manager can work on. It's disappointing he didn't strengthen his hand in defence in the window, but I honestly can't see any excuse for players not breaking sweat, or not knowing what they are supposed to be doing.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on February 10, 2019, 08:51:27 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on February 10, 2019, 08:43:19 PM
Quote from: Brassneck on February 10, 2019, 08:04:27 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on February 10, 2019, 07:55:25 PM
Not the "pre season" excuse again, please!?

We've got top professionals, with many years in the game, training our fit athletes. The overweight Steve Bruce would not have been in charge of their training regime any more than he would have been responsible for their dietary needs - thank god.

What I'm seeing on the pitch is not a team playing fantastic, flowing football for 75 minutes before, unfortunately, running out of steam and letting the opposition back into games. In Fact, from the word go in most matches, it looks more like a team that is confused and unsure of exactly what they should be doing with all of their energy.

Of course Bruce would have been in charge of the training regime.  Are you seriously suggesting that these fitness coaches make it up as they go along or focus on what they want to without consulting Bruce?

You've posted some absolute crap on here over the past few weeks - Presumably to provoke reactions but the above nonsense is your most ridiculous yet.

You're talking shit.

Steve Bruce wouldn't know a modern training regime if it hit him in his ugly mug.

Bruce was, and is, an old fashioned 'Manager' with a coaching team in charge off fitness.

Guardiola/Pochettino he is not!

Villa 75 you don't sound 75!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villa75 on February 10, 2019, 08:55:07 PM
Quote from: footyskillz on February 10, 2019, 08:51:27 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on February 10, 2019, 08:43:19 PM
Quote from: Brassneck on February 10, 2019, 08:04:27 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on February 10, 2019, 07:55:25 PM
Not the "pre season" excuse again, please!?

We've got top professionals, with many years in the game, training our fit athletes. The overweight Steve Bruce would not have been in charge of their training regime any more than he would have been responsible for their dietary needs - thank god.

What I'm seeing on the pitch is not a team playing fantastic, flowing football for 75 minutes before, unfortunately, running out of steam and letting the opposition back into games. In Fact, from the word go in most matches, it looks more like a team that is confused and unsure of exactly what they should be doing with all of their energy.

Of course Bruce would have been in charge of the training regime.  Are you seriously suggesting that these fitness coaches make it up as they go along or focus on what they want to without consulting Bruce?

You've posted some absolute crap on here over the past few weeks - Presumably to provoke reactions but the above nonsense is your most ridiculous yet.

You're talking shit.

Steve Bruce wouldn't know a modern training regime if it hit him in his ugly mug.

Bruce was, and is, an old fashioned 'Manager' with a coaching team in charge off fitness.

Guardiola/Pochettino he is not!

Villa 75 you don't sound 75!

Not quite  😂 But not as far away as I would like! 😉
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AV82EC on February 10, 2019, 08:59:35 PM
You do have to wonder if the down turn in confidence/attitude was down to players being told their futures during the Jan transfer window. I realise why it needed to be done but I think it may have backfired slightly. Hopefully the professional pride is starting to kick back in with Fridays February fantasy comeback the start.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 10, 2019, 09:09:21 PM
There's a myriad of reasons.

Looking at pre-season, Wagnar took over at Huddersfield in 19th, they finished in 19th. Spent the summer doing double training, took them on some bizarre special forces type selection training week in the Swedish wilderness and they came back running everybody off the park. Promoted.

Warnock took over another limited side, probably did better to get then 12th and then drilled a work ethic into them. Promoted too.

Farke has had 4 windows now and they're going up.

There's certainly something in it when you're going from one style to another. The whole "they're professionals" and should be able to get on with it smacks of naivety and somebody whose never managed. Managing is like trying to herd cats.

Look at Snoddy last season and look at him now. He's probably a stone lighter at least. Bruce clearly had a laissez faire attitude to preparation; fitness, tactics and squad building.

We saw significant improvement; men hitting the box, quick movement of the ball and some dominating displays.

What's changed is how the wide play has dropped. We're slow to transition wide and we've slowed down how quick we move the game on.

We've also dropped deeper to accomodate Whelan. This happened during the good run. Think chalk and cheese of the first 30 odd minutes against the Noses.

Grealish and Tuanzebe contributed to moving it wide or out of defence and in the former, taking players away to create space. Our movement looks poor because our midfield doesn't switch it or move it on.

We've seen flashes during this run. Second half against Swansea we got Hourihane further forward and really deserved to win. We spent 15 minutes battering Sheffield. 25 good minutes against QPR.

It's not enough at the moment though.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on February 10, 2019, 09:19:47 PM
Ads - exactly. When you're changing from 1 style to another and it's a dramatic shift it's very rare for a manager to do that for more than a short 8-10 game run without a pre-season to fall back on.

You can't coach a team to cover every possibility so even the best coaching and fitness team will take guidance from the manager of how they're wanting to play and will build around that.

We saw exactly the same issue when Houllier took over a MoN team that had trained around solid defence and quick counter attacks and tried to get them to play higher up the pitch, the physical requirements aren't the same and it's really hard to fix that during the season.


At no point have I said this is the only thing though, but I think there's quite clearly a problem with the team delivering the performances that you'd expect from Watching Brentford when he was there and this, along with the style and age of the squad is a big part of it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brassneck on February 10, 2019, 09:42:55 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 10, 2019, 08:25:21 PM
Quote from: Brassneck on February 10, 2019, 07:45:44 PM
Quote from: Clampy on February 10, 2019, 07:41:47 PM
I don't blame the club for not doing more in the January window, it was always going to be difficult.

I think we did OK - Certainly better than most.  If Fer had signed, most of us would be pretty satisfied with the window.  We addressed the GK & central defence.  We have a couple of options to make loans permanent and a new RB for next season.

Utter, utter bollocks. We needed a right back, a left back and decent midfielder immediately. We got none of those.

Wrong again.  We needed (in this order):

1: GK - got
2. Left sided central defender - got (we actually got 2 so one could fill in at LB)
3: LB - failed to sign
4: Defensive midfielder - failed to sign but brought in Carroll who could play the Woods role a la Brentford
5: RB - Not urgent as we had 3 so signing one now for next season was a bonus.

You are being silly if you think GK & left sided central defender weren't priority & even sillier to expect 5 positions to be filled in the January window.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brassneck on February 10, 2019, 09:49:42 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on February 10, 2019, 08:43:19 PM
Quote from: Brassneck on February 10, 2019, 08:04:27 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on February 10, 2019, 07:55:25 PM
Not the "pre season" excuse again, please!?

We've got top professionals, with many years in the game, training our fit athletes. The overweight Steve Bruce would not have been in charge of their training regime any more than he would have been responsible for their dietary needs - thank god.

What I'm seeing on the pitch is not a team playing fantastic, flowing football for 75 minutes before, unfortunately, running out of steam and letting the opposition back into games. In Fact, from the word go in most matches, it looks more like a team that is confused and unsure of exactly what they should be doing with all of their energy.

Of course Bruce would have been in charge of the training regime.  Are you seriously suggesting that these fitness coaches make it up as they go along or focus on what they want to without consulting Bruce?

You've posted some absolute crap on here over the past few weeks - Presumably to provoke reactions but the above nonsense is your most ridiculous yet.

You're talking shit.

Steve Bruce wouldn't know a modern training regime if it hit him in his ugly mug.

Bruce was, and is, an old fashioned 'Manager' with a coaching team in charge off fitness.

Guardiola/Pochettino he is not!

So you concede that Bruce doesn't know modern training regimes yet claim that the wasted summer (under the previous "old fashioned" manager is not a valid reason for our lack of energy and that just because they are professional footballers, they should be able to run for extraordinary lengths of time.  Oh and despite being "top professionals" you claim they don't know what they're doing.

Priceless.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 10, 2019, 09:56:00 PM
Bruce would have defined the training regime and decided what they would do.

How much input he would have had on executing what went on would be a different matter. I doubt he did any coaching. Much like O'Neill and our endless 5-aside football Monday-Friday.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on February 10, 2019, 10:01:32 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 10, 2019, 08:25:21 PM
Utter, utter bollocks. We needed a right back, a left back and decent midfielder immediately. We got none of those.
That's a bit unfair. It's not easy to get real quality players for those key positions. There was no point in buying with haste and ending up with more waste.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TonyD on February 10, 2019, 10:13:30 PM
Quote from: brian green on February 10, 2019, 06:47:28 PM
Correct.  We have too many sub standard players.
We don’t really have a defence or a midfield. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 10, 2019, 11:10:11 PM
So Smith hasn’t had 4 months to work on their fitness, if it’s as suspect as people claim.

And the fitness prior to him arriving was that bad he played the oldest member of the squad in every game over the hectic Christmas period.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 10, 2019, 11:17:26 PM
Quote from: olaftab on February 10, 2019, 10:01:32 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 10, 2019, 08:25:21 PM
Utter, utter bollocks. We needed a right back, a left back and decent midfielder immediately. We got none of those.
That's a bit unfair. It's not easy to get real quality players for those key positions. There was no point in buying with haste and ending up with more waste.

Neil Taylor is the one of the worst left backs I’ve ever seen. There wasn’t a single gettable replacement anywhere in the world of football who would have improved us?

Look how many goals we ship, and look at how many originate from the flanks. Hutton was at least partially responsible for two of Sheffield’s goals on Friday. Add in no decent defensive midfielder, and the failure to replace any of these three is why we’re dropping further and further away from the play offs, and will be lucky at this rate to finish mid table.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on February 10, 2019, 11:30:46 PM
I reckon the main reason we didn't sign more players is that we're no longer so stupid as to keep bringing in players and fecking ourselves up financially. Or at least I hope it is considering the absolute mess we got ourselves into in the summer from doing it as a second division club, if we haven't learnt from that we never will.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 10, 2019, 11:43:46 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on February 10, 2019, 11:30:46 PM
I reckon the main reason we didn't sign more players is that we're no longer so stupid as to keep bringing in players and fecking ourselves up financially. Or at least I hope it is considering the absolute mess we got ourselves into in the summer from doing it as a second division club, if we haven't learnt from that we never will.

Not getting promoted is going to cost us rather more.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on February 10, 2019, 11:49:43 PM
It really won't. I'm desperate to get out of this division, not desperate enough to risk spending money we don't have and end up once again facing what we did 6 months ago though.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: robleflaneur on February 11, 2019, 12:25:01 AM
Quote from: Ads on February 10, 2019, 09:09:21 PM
There's a myriad of reasons.

Looking at pre-season, Wagnar took over at Huddersfield in 19th, they finished in 19th. Spent the summer doing double training, took them on some bizarre special forces type selection training week in the Swedish wilderness and they came back running everybody off the park. Promoted.

Warnock took over another limited side, probably did better to get then 12th and then drilled a work ethic into them. Promoted too.

Farke has had 4 windows now and they're going up.

There's certainly something in it when you're going from one style to another. The whole "they're professionals" and should be able to get on with it smacks of naivety and somebody whose never managed. Managing is like trying to herd cats.

Look at Snoddy last season and look at him now. He's probably a stone lighter at least. Bruce clearly had a laissez faire attitude to preparation; fitness, tactics and squad building.

We saw significant improvement; men hitting the box, quick movement of the ball and some dominating displays.

What's changed is how the wide play has dropped. We're slow to transition wide and we've slowed down how quick we move the game on.

We've also dropped deeper to accomodate Whelan. This happened during the good run. Think chalk and cheese of the first 30 odd minutes against the Noses.

Grealish and Tuanzebe contributed to moving it wide or out of defence and in the former, taking players away to create space. Our movement looks poor because our midfield doesn't switch it or move it on.

We've seen flashes during this run. Second half against Swansea we got Hourihane further forward and really deserved to win. We spent 15 minutes battering Sheffield. 25 good minutes against QPR.

It's not enough at the moment though.
Very good points here.As regards the  criticisms of others as regards fitness,Bruce initially improved the fitness of RDM's squad which would get battered in the last 15 minutes.Whether those fitness levels have been maintained is hard to quantify because Villa unusually have scored lots of late goals this season.
What is not in doubt is the midfield is not equipped to deal with the pace of the Championship.To be fair probably no Championship midfield is,witness Sheffield's capitulation.However,our is one of the slowest along with Albion's who are prospering because of their attacking prowess.
The identikit good Championship  side seems to play one two touch rapid passing and develop attacks as quick as possible,Derby,Norwich,Sheff U,Leeds and Forest spring to mind.What they lack at times is accuracy and good defenders.
What we had with Grealish was the  possession,accuracy and the ability to bring wide players into play in the final third and provide skill as an antidote to fast running as Clough and Shankly used to preach about the ball moving faster tha n players .The essence of Whelan's game changing cameo on Friday in a similar  but slower vein to Clough's go to midfielder ,McGovern  who was fundemental to Derby and Forest winning the league and like Ken McNaught was the only Scot to have won the European Cup without winning a cap because he seemed so ordinary,decent defensively and could offer quick short accurate passing which led to counter attacks but was ignored because he didn't offer the more eye catching flamboyancy of others.A Carrick compared to the Lampards and Gerrards.
In essence,I hope that we will become a superior Brentford,a skilful side that moves the ball quickly and whose players offer good movement that is difficult to defend against.


Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brassneck on February 11, 2019, 06:12:20 AM
Quote from: Risso on February 10, 2019, 11:17:26 PM
Quote from: olaftab on February 10, 2019, 10:01:32 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 10, 2019, 08:25:21 PM
Utter, utter bollocks. We needed a right back, a left back and decent midfielder immediately. We got none of those.
That's a bit unfair. It's not easy to get real quality players for those key positions. There was no point in buying with haste and ending up with more waste.

Neil Taylor is the one of the worst left backs I’ve ever seen. There wasn’t a single gettable replacement anywhere in the world of football who would have improved us?

Look how many goals we ship, and look at how many originate from the flanks. Hutton was at least partially responsible for two of Sheffield’s goals on Friday. Add in no decent defensive midfielder, and the failure to replace any of these three is why we’re dropping further and further away from the play offs, and will be lucky at this rate to finish mid table.

So you think that we didn't address those positions because we didn't want to?

When the new owners came in, one of the first things they stated was that this wasn't going to be a quick fix.  It is ridiculous to expect 6 positions to be addressed in a January transfer window.  We've got the RB we want but only on condition that he stays in France for the remainder of the season.  We tried for Fer so we clearly attempted to address the defensive midfielder.  I'm sure that at least one of the "spinning plates" was for a LB.

Yes - In an ideal world, we'd have brought players in to fill those positions but you have to understand how difficult it is in January.  Nobody wants to lose good players and prices are inflated.  You are extremely naive if you think it's as simple as "there must be someone, somewhere in the world"
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brassneck on February 11, 2019, 06:17:07 AM
Quote from: Risso on February 10, 2019, 11:10:11 PM
So Smith hasn’t had 4 months to work on their fitness, if it’s as suspect as people claim.

And the fitness prior to him arriving was that bad he played the oldest member of the squad in every game over the hectic Christmas period.

You do realise there is only so much work that can be carried out when you are playing Saturday, Tuesday, Saturday and with a hectic Xmas schedule looming.

Also, you need to be aware of the injuries we had incurred during the Xmas period, making Whelan the most obvious choice.  None of the team are at the level of fitness Smith desires, even the young early 20 year olds.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brassneck on February 11, 2019, 06:18:26 AM
Quote from: robleflaneur on February 11, 2019, 12:25:01 AM
Quote from: Ads on February 10, 2019, 09:09:21 PM
There's a myriad of reasons.

Looking at pre-season, Wagnar took over at Huddersfield in 19th, they finished in 19th. Spent the summer doing double training, took them on some bizarre special forces type selection training week in the Swedish wilderness and they came back running everybody off the park. Promoted.

Warnock took over another limited side, probably did better to get then 12th and then drilled a work ethic into them. Promoted too.

Farke has had 4 windows now and they're going up.

There's certainly something in it when you're going from one style to another. The whole "they're professionals" and should be able to get on with it smacks of naivety and somebody whose never managed. Managing is like trying to herd cats.

Look at Snoddy last season and look at him now. He's probably a stone lighter at least. Bruce clearly had a laissez faire attitude to preparation; fitness, tactics and squad building.

We saw significant improvement; men hitting the box, quick movement of the ball and some dominating displays.

What's changed is how the wide play has dropped. We're slow to transition wide and we've slowed down how quick we move the game on.

We've also dropped deeper to accomodate Whelan. This happened during the good run. Think chalk and cheese of the first 30 odd minutes against the Noses.

Grealish and Tuanzebe contributed to moving it wide or out of defence and in the former, taking players away to create space. Our movement looks poor because our midfield doesn't switch it or move it on.

We've seen flashes during this run. Second half against Swansea we got Hourihane further forward and really deserved to win. We spent 15 minutes battering Sheffield. 25 good minutes against QPR.

It's not enough at the moment though.
Very good points here.As regards the  criticisms of others as regards fitness,Bruce initially improved the fitness of RDM's squad which would get battered in the last 15 minutes.Whether those fitness levels have been maintained is hard to quantify because Villa unusually have scored lots of late goals this season.
What is not in doubt is the midfield is not equipped to deal with the pace of the Championship.To be fair probably no Championship midfield is,witness Sheffield's capitulation.However,our is one of the slowest along with Albion's who are prospering because of their attacking prowess.
The identikit good Championship  side seems to play one two touch rapid passing and develop attacks as quick as possible,Derby,Norwich,Sheff U,Leeds and Forest spring to mind.What they lack at times is accuracy and good defenders.
What we had with Grealish was the  possession,accuracy and the ability to bring wide players into play in the final third and provide skill as an antidote to fast running as Clough and Shankly used to preach about the ball moving faster tha n players .The essence of Whelan's game changing cameo on Friday in a similar  but slower vein to Clough's go to midfielder ,McGovern  who was fundemental to Derby and Forest winning the league and like Ken McNaught was the only Scot to have won the European Cup without winning a cap because he seemed so ordinary,decent defensively and could offer quick short accurate passing which led to counter attacks but was ignored because he didn't offer the more eye catching flamboyancy of others.A Carrick compared to the Lampards and Gerrards.
In essence,I hope that we will become a superior Brentford,a skilful side that moves the ball quickly and whose players offer good movement that is difficult to defend against.

Wasn't there a stat at the time of Smith's appointment that had Villa players covering the least amount of ground per game in the entire division?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on February 11, 2019, 07:11:15 AM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on February 10, 2019, 11:30:46 PM
I reckon the main reason we didn't sign more players is that we're no longer so stupid as to keep bringing in players and fecking ourselves up financially. Or at least I hope it is considering the absolute mess we got ourselves into in the summer from doing it as a second division club, if we haven't learnt from that we never will.

Agree. For example, there was no point in bringing in any old left back just because we needed an upgrade on Taylor plus adding to the wage bill.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on February 11, 2019, 07:38:30 AM
I actually think that should have been addressed - by Bruce when he had the opportunity on the summer. i think the latest accounts will make interesting reading.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: passitsideways on February 11, 2019, 07:41:50 AM
Mings presumably is an attempt to kill two birds with one stone - someone who can fill in at CB while Chester and Tuanzebe are working through their injuries and Hause settles in, and then becomes an option at LB.

As for the broader picture, as has already been pointed out by a fair few people in this thread, having Grealish in there gave a false impression as to how far along the rest of the team in coming to grips with the way Smith wants to play. Even if we had someone who could play the linking role 50% as well as Jack, I daresay things would've looked much more encouraging over the past dozen or so games.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on February 11, 2019, 07:44:53 AM
I would sooner see no inward movements if all they are going to be is makeshift fingers in the dyke.  Time and effort, and coaching and encouragement going into the development of our own young players is far more productive in the medium and long term than rummaging around in the remaindered pile.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on February 11, 2019, 07:49:50 AM
of course you're right Brian in an ideal world, but the reality is every club in this league relies on loans and  developing players that aren't theirs. We are in for a particularly interesting summer with so many senior and younger players out of contract.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on February 11, 2019, 08:12:07 AM
Of course Mr U.  The widest sense you are right but I am being selfish, as I feel those of us like you and me and the many others who have endured the despair of our slide to our current plight are entitled to be.  Basically if we are to endure being dominated by teams we regard as inferior I would sooner see O'Hare, RHM, H-D, Green, Davis and others being forged in the fires of first team football than standing at The Abbey Ground listening to the carrot crunchers purring over their transformation as an attacking team.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on February 11, 2019, 08:26:03 AM
Quote from: mr underhill on February 11, 2019, 07:38:30 AM
I actually think that should have been addressed - by Bruce when he had the opportunity on the summer. i think the latest accounts will make interesting reading.

If you mean the left back issue should have been addressed in the summer, I agree although in fairness, we did have Joe Bryan sitting at the Belfry or wherever he was until he'd got a better offer.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on February 11, 2019, 09:17:15 AM
Yes I was refering to the left back issue - it was tough luck that Fulham nabbed him but Bruce seemed to have no plan b - just as he didn't with Moukudi. I guess  the last hour offer for McKenna might be construed as a Plan B for the CH position but of course it was far to late for Aberdeen to play ball.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 11, 2019, 09:27:09 AM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on February 10, 2019, 11:49:43 PM
It really won't. I'm desperate to get out of this division, not desperate enough to risk spending money we don't have and end up once again facing what we did 6 months ago though.

I've no desire to see us spending £12m on complete duds like Hogan ever again, but instead sensible investment to improve our chances of making the play offs this season.  The centre of defence has been improved, but as we saw on Friday, the stark reality is that if both full backs are crap, and the midfield in front of them offers no protection, then you're still going to ship goals.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villa75 on February 11, 2019, 09:32:29 AM
Quote from: Brassneck on February 10, 2019, 09:49:42 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on February 10, 2019, 08:43:19 PM
Quote from: Brassneck on February 10, 2019, 08:04:27 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on February 10, 2019, 07:55:25 PM
Not the "pre season" excuse again, please!?

We've got top professionals, with many years in the game, training our fit athletes. The overweight Steve Bruce would not have been in charge of their training regime any more than he would have been responsible for their dietary needs - thank god.

What I'm seeing on the pitch is not a team playing fantastic, flowing football for 75 minutes before, unfortunately, running out of steam and letting the opposition back into games. In Fact, from the word go in most matches, it looks more like a team that is confused and unsure of exactly what they should be doing with all of their energy.

Of course Bruce would have been in charge of the training regime.  Are you seriously suggesting that these fitness coaches make it up as they go along or focus on what they want to without consulting Bruce?

You've posted some absolute crap on here over the past few weeks - Presumably to provoke reactions but the above nonsense is your most ridiculous yet.

You're talking shit.

Steve Bruce wouldn't know a modern training regime if it hit him in his ugly mug.

Bruce was, and is, an old fashioned 'Manager' with a coaching team in charge off fitness.

Guardiola/Pochettino he is not!

So you concede that Bruce doesn't know modern training regimes yet claim that the wasted summer (under the previous "old fashioned" manager is not a valid reason for our lack of energy and that just because they are professional footballers, they should be able to run for extraordinary lengths of time.  Oh and despite being "top professionals" you claim they don't know what they're doing.

Priceless.

There's managers, and there's coaches.

Bruce was our manager, not our coach.

We had/have a team of highly skilled coaches.

The players are not unfit. It's an excuse for Smith's current inability to get decent results against, mainly, very poor sides.

That's all we get under these mediocre managers, excuses. We had the same shit when Bruce was underperforming.

It's like fucking groundhog day on here, with some people.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on February 11, 2019, 09:33:55 AM
so here's a thought - and I'm not advocating it personally - would it have been better to have kept Bruce this season, given that we don't have the players to play the way Smith wants them to?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 11, 2019, 09:45:21 AM
Quote from: mr underhill on February 11, 2019, 09:33:55 AM
so here's a thought - and I'm not advocating it personally - would it have been better to have kept Bruce this season, given that we don't have the players to play the way Smith wants them to?

No, obviously not.  I want Smith to succeed, and think that ultimately he will.  Doesn't mean that I think he's doing a good job at all at the moment though.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AV82EC on February 11, 2019, 10:32:20 AM
Quote from: Risso on February 11, 2019, 09:45:21 AM
Quote from: mr underhill on February 11, 2019, 09:33:55 AM
so here's a thought - and I'm not advocating it personally - would it have been better to have kept Bruce this season, given that we don't have the players to play the way Smith wants them to?

No, obviously not.  I want Smith to succeed, and think that ultimately he will.  Doesn't mean that I think he's doing a good job at all at the moment though.

Agreed. When he lost Grealish and Tuanzebe in quick succession and knew Chester was injured and less effective he needed to rethink and reorganise rather than carry on with his approach. More pragmatism may have garnered more points. He’ll have learnt hopefully.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on February 11, 2019, 10:34:08 AM
On the left back there were strong links to James Justin at Luton but like Fer we just couldn't get that one done. Given when he came in and the time he'd had to work with the squad and then get a list of requirements together for the scouts I'm ok if we only had 1-2 options for some of the problem areas.

I'd have much preferred us to get everything we needed done on the 1st of January but that was always unlikely so I'm pretty happy to have Kalinic and Mings starting, Hause and Collins to come in and then a replacement for Hutton and Elmo already in place and ready for the summer.

On the idea of keeping Bruce because the team doesn't suit Smith, no chance. My biggest problem with Bruce is that everything he did was so short term that we were just going to end up caught in a constant churn in he squad, he doesn't do tactics or coaching so his only solution to any problem is to throw money at it and we really needed to break out of that mindset. Sadly the first step of fixing the mess will need us to throw money at it, but what I suspect will be very different is that it will be spent on players that are 26 and under rather than fees and big wages on guys who are a couple of seasons away from retirement.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 11, 2019, 10:35:17 AM
Collins?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chris Smith on February 11, 2019, 10:38:20 AM
Quote from: mr underhill on February 11, 2019, 09:33:55 AM
so here's a thought - and I'm not advocating it personally - would it have been better to have kept Bruce this season, given that we don't have the players to play the way Smith wants them to?

If we had kept Bruce then it’s unlikely it would have been any different whenever we made the change.

I think some of the criticism of lack of transfer activity aimed at Smith is misplaced for a couple of reasons. Firstly, January is traditionally difficult to get your targets as clubs do not want to sell unless they have ready made replacements and, secondly, under the new structure it was stated that the manager would not be the one negotiating.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on February 11, 2019, 12:06:29 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 11, 2019, 09:27:09 AM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on February 10, 2019, 11:49:43 PM
It really won't. I'm desperate to get out of this division, not desperate enough to risk spending money we don't have and end up once again facing what we did 6 months ago though.

I've no desire to see us spending £12m on complete duds like Hogan ever again, but instead sensible investment to improve our chances of making the play offs this season.  The centre of defence has been improved, but as we saw on Friday, the stark reality is that if both full backs are crap, and the midfield in front of them offers no protection, then you're still going to ship goals.

So you wanted us to spend money on who exactly? Whatever, we'd have been increasing the wage bill too as the only defender that went out was Bree. We're stuck with Taylor, should have let Hutton go in the summer after all, and have Elmohamady who can play in various roles, Jack (not Grealish) of all trades.

You make these points as if it's the easiest thing in the world, when the reality is different.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on February 11, 2019, 12:11:09 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on February 11, 2019, 09:32:29 AM

It's like fucking groundhog day on here, with some people.

You never fucking said a fucking truer fucking word.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 11, 2019, 12:27:18 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 11, 2019, 12:06:29 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 11, 2019, 09:27:09 AM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on February 10, 2019, 11:49:43 PM
It really won't. I'm desperate to get out of this division, not desperate enough to risk spending money we don't have and end up once again facing what we did 6 months ago though.

I've no desire to see us spending £12m on complete duds like Hogan ever again, but instead sensible investment to improve our chances of making the play offs this season.  The centre of defence has been improved, but as we saw on Friday, the stark reality is that if both full backs are crap, and the midfield in front of them offers no protection, then you're still going to ship goals.

So you wanted us to spend money on who exactly? Whatever, we'd have been increasing the wage bill too as the only defender that went out was Bree. We're stuck with Taylor, should have let Hutton go in the summer after all, and have Elmohamady who can play in various roles, Jack (not Grealish) of all trades.

You make these points as if it's the easiest thing in the world, when the reality is different.

We agreed a deal for Fer, so the money was clearly there. I never said it was easy, but that’s why Smith and the directors get paid the money they do.

And have you seen Elmo play this season? He’s been an absolute disaster.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kipeye on February 11, 2019, 12:40:45 PM
He should give Adomah a go at right back, he has strong defensive qualities.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villa75 on February 11, 2019, 12:45:18 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on February 11, 2019, 12:11:09 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on February 11, 2019, 09:32:29 AM

It's like fucking groundhog day on here, with some people.

You never fucking said a fucking truer fucking word.

Glad you agree.

It's recycled excuse after recycled excuse, manager after manager, year after year.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on February 11, 2019, 12:47:19 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 11, 2019, 12:27:18 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 11, 2019, 12:06:29 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 11, 2019, 09:27:09 AM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on February 10, 2019, 11:49:43 PM
It really won't. I'm desperate to get out of this division, not desperate enough to risk spending money we don't have and end up once again facing what we did 6 months ago though.

I've no desire to see us spending £12m on complete duds like Hogan ever again, but instead sensible investment to improve our chances of making the play offs this season.  The centre of defence has been improved, but as we saw on Friday, the stark reality is that if both full backs are crap, and the midfield in front of them offers no protection, then you're still going to ship goals.

So you wanted us to spend money on who exactly? Whatever, we'd have been increasing the wage bill too as the only defender that went out was Bree. We're stuck with Taylor, should have let Hutton go in the summer after all, and have Elmohamady who can play in various roles, Jack (not Grealish) of all trades.

You make these points as if it's the easiest thing in the world, when the reality is different.

We agreed a deal for Fer, so the money was clearly there. I never said it was easy, but that’s why Smith and the directors get paid the money they do.

And have you seen Elmo play this season? He’s been an absolute disaster.

Where does Fer play? Not sure he's a left back.

We had how many right backs in our squad? And you want to buy more? That's been our problem, we just keep spending money.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 11, 2019, 12:49:44 PM
You may have missed it, but we did buy a right back. We just can’t use him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sickbeggar on February 11, 2019, 01:04:51 PM
Not sure how many different options a manager is going to have for players at the best of times, let alone in January with limited funds and a wage bill to balance. You take Mings. Now he may have been his first choice but the option to buy him now was obviously off the table. Maybe Smith fancied another centre half but couldn't persuade the club to sell, so he had to allocate funds and wages to loan mings that had a knock-on effect with another target. It's just not easy at the best of times and you may have to change your priorities because centre-half B is available and affordable, even though you're more desperate for  centre midfielder A. Every manager goes through this, and unless you have an unlimited budget then its unlikely you're  going to get all your targets exactly when you need them. I'm sure there's players he enquired about whose clubs will probably take more kindly to an approach in May.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tomd2103 on February 11, 2019, 01:17:21 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 11, 2019, 12:47:19 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 11, 2019, 12:27:18 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 11, 2019, 12:06:29 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 11, 2019, 09:27:09 AM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on February 10, 2019, 11:49:43 PM
It really won't. I'm desperate to get out of this division, not desperate enough to risk spending money we don't have and end up once again facing what we did 6 months ago though.

I've no desire to see us spending £12m on complete duds like Hogan ever again, but instead sensible investment to improve our chances of making the play offs this season.  The centre of defence has been improved, but as we saw on Friday, the stark reality is that if both full backs are crap, and the midfield in front of them offers no protection, then you're still going to ship goals.

So you wanted us to spend money on who exactly? Whatever, we'd have been increasing the wage bill too as the only defender that went out was Bree. We're stuck with Taylor, should have let Hutton go in the summer after all, and have Elmohamady who can play in various roles, Jack (not Grealish) of all trades.

You make these points as if it's the easiest thing in the world, when the reality is different.

We agreed a deal for Fer, so the money was clearly there. I never said it was easy, but that’s why Smith and the directors get paid the money they do.

And have you seen Elmo play this season? He’s been an absolute disaster.

Where does Fer play? Not sure he's a left back.

We had how many right backs in our squad? And you want to buy more? That's been our problem, we just keep spending money.

I would have thought at least three of them will go in the summer.  Can't see either Hutton or De Laet being offered new deals and would be surprised if Elmohamady is not one of Bruce's summer signings.  If they don't rate Bree, then I guess we are going to need some forward planning for that position.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: old man villa fan on February 11, 2019, 01:19:58 PM
I think our dealings in January had more to do with next season than this.  Take the fullback positions where it is clear that two new players for the future are required.  As it is difficult to bring in players you want in January, you are left with players that are not who you really want.  The alternative are loans, which was generally our policy.  We could have brought in another loan at left back but the Club look as though they decided to keep the money for the summer.

The interesting thing for me was the number of young players sent out on loan.  We could have kept a couple with a view to bringing them in towards the end of the season but the Club seems to have decided that it is better for the future to push them out on loan.

I do wonder whether there has been a bit of easing off on the push for promotion after the injuries started to take effect.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sirlordbaltimore on February 11, 2019, 01:42:43 PM


Surely you have to be happy we aren't just spending on any old players for the sake of it? the amount of money we've wasted doing that over the last ten years is borderline criminal.

If we couldn't get who we wanted, then obviously it's best we wait until the summer clear out and try again IMHO.

We aren't going up so we need to get the right players in and the structure sorted out this summer for another push next season.

We already been assured going up this season isn't critical by the new board. Let's take them at their word.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tomd2103 on February 11, 2019, 01:57:03 PM
Quote from: old man villa fan on February 11, 2019, 01:19:58 PM
I think our dealings in January had more to do with next season than this.  Take the fullback positions where it is clear that two new players for the future are required.  As it is difficult to bring in players you want in January, you are left with players that are not who you really want.  The alternative are loans, which was generally our policy.  We could have brought in another loan at left back but the Club look as though they decided to keep the money for the summer.

The interesting thing for me was the number of young players sent out on loan.  We could have kept a couple with a view to bringing them in towards the end of the season but the Club seems to have decided that it is better for the future to push them out on loan.

I do wonder whether there has been a bit of easing off on the push for promotion after the injuries started to take effect.

One reading of that situation is that they have been sent out on loan to get some game time with a view to them being involved next season.   
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on February 11, 2019, 02:13:30 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 10, 2019, 11:17:26 PM
Quote from: olaftab on February 10, 2019, 10:01:32 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 10, 2019, 08:25:21 PM
Utter, utter bollocks. We needed a right back, a left back and decent midfielder immediately. We got none of those.
That's a bit unfair. It's not easy to get real quality players for those key positions. There was no point in buying with haste and ending up with more waste.

Neil Taylor is the one of the worst left backs I’ve ever seen. There wasn’t a single gettable replacement anywhere in the world of football who would have improved us?

Look how many goals we ship, and look at how many originate from the flanks. Hutton was at least partially responsible for two of Sheffield’s goals on Friday. Add in no decent defensive midfielder, and the failure to replace any of these three is why we’re dropping further and further away from the play offs, and will be lucky at this rate to finish mid table.
I can not argue about Taylor and Hutton as you are totally right. They are truely awful but still maintain that we need to find good quality replacement rather than gamble again.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on February 11, 2019, 02:15:40 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 11, 2019, 12:49:44 PM
You may have missed it, but we did buy a right back. We just can’t use him.

Oh, the player we loaned straight back? Guilbert.

Was that a good signing or not? Was that good planning for offloading the others in the summer because nobody else wanted them?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on February 11, 2019, 02:41:18 PM
We'll only know if he's a good signing when he starts playing for us. See his own thread for the latest news from Caen. Who are the others you are referencing?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on February 11, 2019, 02:58:53 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 11, 2019, 10:35:17 AM
Collins?

Carroll, had a brain fart.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brassneck on February 11, 2019, 03:58:14 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on February 11, 2019, 09:32:29 AM
Quote from: Brassneck on February 10, 2019, 09:49:42 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on February 10, 2019, 08:43:19 PM
Quote from: Brassneck on February 10, 2019, 08:04:27 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on February 10, 2019, 07:55:25 PM
Not the "pre season" excuse again, please!?

We've got top professionals, with many years in the game, training our fit athletes. The overweight Steve Bruce would not have been in charge of their training regime any more than he would have been responsible for their dietary needs - thank god.

What I'm seeing on the pitch is not a team playing fantastic, flowing football for 75 minutes before, unfortunately, running out of steam and letting the opposition back into games. In Fact, from the word go in most matches, it looks more like a team that is confused and unsure of exactly what they should be doing with all of their energy.

Of course Bruce would have been in charge of the training regime.  Are you seriously suggesting that these fitness coaches make it up as they go along or focus on what they want to without consulting Bruce?

You've posted some absolute crap on here over the past few weeks - Presumably to provoke reactions but the above nonsense is your most ridiculous yet.

You're talking shit.

Steve Bruce wouldn't know a modern training regime if it hit him in his ugly mug.

Bruce was, and is, an old fashioned 'Manager' with a coaching team in charge off fitness.

Guardiola/Pochettino he is not!

So you concede that Bruce doesn't know modern training regimes yet claim that the wasted summer (under the previous "old fashioned" manager is not a valid reason for our lack of energy and that just because they are professional footballers, they should be able to run for extraordinary lengths of time.  Oh and despite being "top professionals" you claim they don't know what they're doing.

Priceless.

There's managers, and there's coaches.

Bruce was our manager, not our coach.

We had/have a team of highly skilled coaches.

The players are not unfit. It's an excuse for Smith's current inability to get decent results against, mainly, very poor sides.

That's all we get under these mediocre managers, excuses. We had the same shit when Bruce was underperforming.

It's like fucking groundhog day on here, with some people.

The only groundhog day on here comes from you and your constant negativity.  Bruce is shit, Smith is shit, Villa are shit and life is shit.  OK we've got it.

I bet you're a right barrel of laughs to be with on a night out?

No the players are not unfit - They are just not fit enough to play the style that Smith likes to play.  That is not an excuse, it is a fact.

And on what basis to you make your claim that our coaches were highly skilled?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brassneck on February 11, 2019, 04:06:36 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 11, 2019, 12:27:18 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 11, 2019, 12:06:29 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 11, 2019, 09:27:09 AM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on February 10, 2019, 11:49:43 PM
It really won't. I'm desperate to get out of this division, not desperate enough to risk spending money we don't have and end up once again facing what we did 6 months ago though.

I've no desire to see us spending £12m on complete duds like Hogan ever again, but instead sensible investment to improve our chances of making the play offs this season.  The centre of defence has been improved, but as we saw on Friday, the stark reality is that if both full backs are crap, and the midfield in front of them offers no protection, then you're still going to ship goals.

So you wanted us to spend money on who exactly? Whatever, we'd have been increasing the wage bill too as the only defender that went out was Bree. We're stuck with Taylor, should have let Hutton go in the summer after all, and have Elmohamady who can play in various roles, Jack (not Grealish) of all trades.

You make these points as if it's the easiest thing in the world, when the reality is different.

We agreed a deal for Fer, so the money was clearly there. I never said it was easy, but that’s why Smith and the directors get paid the money they do.

And have you seen Elmo play this season? He’s been an absolute disaster.

What has getting paid the money got to do with anything?

If a club refuses to sell a player, what exactly do you want them to do?  Offer double the going rate?

Look at the business of the top 2 divisions in January.  Ours would rate at better than average.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 11, 2019, 05:03:19 PM
We've got one player who has come in and improved on the player that was there before, in Mings.  Kalinic has been every bit as disappointing as Nyland, Hause had the worst debut ever and Carroll isn't going to be fit for two weeks, and has been widely derided by Swansea fans.  All the time we're lining up with Hutton and Taylor at full back and Hourihane as a defensive midfielder.  What part of that is "better than average"?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on February 11, 2019, 05:45:51 PM
You forgot Guilbert whom we bought but can't  play until next season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on February 11, 2019, 05:50:52 PM
Like it's already been said, buying players in January is always a tad harder. Every manager will tell you that. We've brought in 6 which is not bad really. Let's see how they get on shall we.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SamTheMouse on February 11, 2019, 06:07:14 PM
The full backs are crap, but they are made to look worse by the fact that the wide men don't track back properly to prevent them from getting isolated one on one.

Not sure whether that's by accident or design.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on February 11, 2019, 06:12:41 PM
Quote from: brian green on February 11, 2019, 05:45:51 PM
You forgot Guilbert whom we bought but can't  play until next season.

it will seem like a new signing come next season
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sirlordbaltimore on February 11, 2019, 06:18:43 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 11, 2019, 05:03:19 PM
We've got one player who has come in and improved on the player that was there before, in Mings.  Kalinic has been every bit as disappointing as Nyland, Hause had the worst debut ever and Carroll isn't going to be fit for two weeks, and has been widely derided by Swansea fans.  All the time we're lining up with Hutton and Taylor at full back and Hourihane as a defensive midfielder.  What part of that is "better than average"?

Smith Out
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 11, 2019, 06:37:11 PM
Quote from: sirlordbaltimore on February 11, 2019, 06:18:43 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 11, 2019, 05:03:19 PM
We've got one player who has come in and improved on the player that was there before, in Mings.  Kalinic has been every bit as disappointing as Nyland, Hause had the worst debut ever and Carroll isn't going to be fit for two weeks, and has been widely derided by Swansea fans.  All the time we're lining up with Hutton and Taylor at full back and Hourihane as a defensive midfielder.  What part of that is "better than average"?

Smith Out

We’d still have that chump Bruce if it was up to you.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brassneck on February 11, 2019, 06:43:35 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 11, 2019, 05:03:19 PM
We've got one player who has come in and improved on the player that was there before, in Mings.  Kalinic has been every bit as disappointing as Nyland, Hause had the worst debut ever and Carroll isn't going to be fit for two weeks, and has been widely derided by Swansea fans.  All the time we're lining up with Hutton and Taylor at full back and Hourihane as a defensive midfielder.  What part of that is "better than average"?

I didn't see anyone complaining about Kalinic when he signed - Including you.  He has improved the GK position although currently not to the tune of £7 million.

Which Championship clubs hag a better window than we did then?

Ever considered that there was only so much money available and only so many players we could bring in without some going the other way?

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on February 11, 2019, 08:23:16 PM
Or the players we do want are not available so we will get through this season and nit rush into pointless Bruce type signings again?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sirlordbaltimore on February 11, 2019, 08:33:43 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 11, 2019, 06:37:11 PM
Quote from: sirlordbaltimore on February 11, 2019, 06:18:43 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 11, 2019, 05:03:19 PM
We've got one player who has come in and improved on the player that was there before, in Mings.  Kalinic has been every bit as disappointing as Nyland, Hause had the worst debut ever and Carroll isn't going to be fit for two weeks, and has been widely derided by Swansea fans.  All the time we're lining up with Hutton and Taylor at full back and Hourihane as a defensive midfielder.  What part of that is "better than average"?

Smith Out

We’d still have that chump Bruce if it was up to you.

We wont have either if it's up to you and you quick trigger finger

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brassneck on February 11, 2019, 08:34:45 PM
Quote from: Ian J on February 11, 2019, 08:23:16 PM
Or the players we do want are not available so we will get through this season and nit rush into pointless Bruce type signings again?

100% spot on.

Idiots are complaining that we have not improved the squad with the players we signed in January and then on the other hand, they are complaining that we didn't bring in RBs & LBs galore.  They would be the first ones moaning if these players didn't improve the squad either.  Talk about damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: old man villa fan on February 11, 2019, 08:39:12 PM
Quote from: tomd2103 on February 11, 2019, 01:57:03 PM
Quote from: old man villa fan on February 11, 2019, 01:19:58 PM
I think our dealings in January had more to do with next season than this.  Take the fullback positions where it is clear that two new players for the future are required.  As it is difficult to bring in players you want in January, you are left with players that are not who you really want.  The alternative are loans, which was generally our policy.  We could have brought in another loan at left back but the Club look as though they decided to keep the money for the summer.

The interesting thing for me was the number of young players sent out on loan.  We could have kept a couple with a view to bringing them in towards the end of the season but the Club seems to have decided that it is better for the future to push them out on loan.

I do wonder whether there has been a bit of easing off on the push for promotion after the injuries started to take effect.

One reading of that situation is that they have been sent out on loan to get some game time with a view to them being involved next season.   

I think they have been sent out to kick start their development as they were stagnating here.  Some will not step up and these will be sold, the others will form a key part of the 1st team squad next season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 11, 2019, 08:49:59 PM
Quote from: sirlordbaltimore on February 11, 2019, 08:33:43 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 11, 2019, 06:37:11 PM
Quote from: sirlordbaltimore on February 11, 2019, 06:18:43 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 11, 2019, 05:03:19 PM
We've got one player who has come in and improved on the player that was there before, in Mings.  Kalinic has been every bit as disappointing as Nyland, Hause had the worst debut ever and Carroll isn't going to be fit for two weeks, and has been widely derided by Swansea fans.  All the time we're lining up with Hutton and Taylor at full back and Hourihane as a defensive midfielder.  What part of that is "better than average"?

Smith Out

We’d still have that chump Bruce if it was up to you.

We wont have either if it's up to you and you quick trigger finger

Wasn’t aware that I’d either taken over as Villa owner or decided to sack Dean Smith.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on February 11, 2019, 08:51:09 PM
I wish I had your confidence omvf that we will have young players of our own forming a key part of our 1st team squad next season.  I very much hope that you are right but I have a nagging suspicion that bringing on our own young players is going to remain a hope rather than an expectation.  Putting his faith in unproven players is a leap DS may not be ready for yet.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on February 11, 2019, 11:20:36 PM
Quote from: brian green on February 11, 2019, 08:51:09 PM
I wish I had your confidence omvf that we will have young players of our own forming a key part of our 1st team squad next season.  I very much hope that you are right but I have a nagging suspicion that bringing on our own young players is going to remain a hope rather than an expectation.  Putting his faith in unproven players is a leap DS may not be ready for yet.

Simply depends if they're good enough or not. They need to start going away on loan to these league one/two clubs and start ripping it up at those levels so we can't ignore then and have to play them when they return.

Different level but Leicester sent Barnes to WBA, he was great up to xmas and now he's gone back to Leicester and is starting games against best teams in the league and playing well (even if he can't shoot).

That is how you use the loan system. Barnes also had loan spells at Milton Keynes and Barnsley in previous seasons. He is only 8 months older than O'Hare is.

Already I'm looking and Hepburn-Murphy hasn't score yet for Cambridge in 4 games against some of the weaker teams in league 2. It is a little concerning.

Green did o.k at Pompey and I'd like to see Mitch Clark more involved in the 18 next season but tbh I don't see this golden generation of youngsters to start playing compared to what we've had in the past.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 11, 2019, 11:23:05 PM
O'Hare man of the match the weekend.

Intelligent and finding space and slow kicked to pieces by Exeter. So say the Carlise fans.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: West Derby Villan on February 11, 2019, 11:24:40 PM
Quote from: Ads on February 11, 2019, 11:23:05 PM
O'Hare man of the match the weekend.

Intelligent and finding space and slow kicked to pieces by Exeter. So say the Carlise fans.

Jack got kicked when he played for Notts County and look how he progressed....fingers crossed O'Hare can progress in a similar way
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on February 11, 2019, 11:28:46 PM
Quote from: Ads on February 11, 2019, 11:23:05 PM
O'Hare man of the match the weekend.

Intelligent and finding space and slow kicked to pieces by Exeter. So say the Carlise fans.

O'Hare's got a chance, just needs to play some games. Should've gone out on loan last season so lost a year of his development.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tomd2103 on February 12, 2019, 12:04:43 AM
Quote from: Brassneck on February 11, 2019, 06:43:35 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 11, 2019, 05:03:19 PM
We've got one player who has come in and improved on the player that was there before, in Mings.  Kalinic has been every bit as disappointing as Nyland, Hause had the worst debut ever and Carroll isn't going to be fit for two weeks, and has been widely derided by Swansea fans.  All the time we're lining up with Hutton and Taylor at full back and Hourihane as a defensive midfielder.  What part of that is "better than average"?

I didn't see anyone complaining about Kalinic when he signed - Including you.  He has improved the GK position although currently not to the tune of £7 million.

Which Championship clubs hag a better window than we did then?

Ever considered that there was only so much money available and only so many players we could bring in without some going the other way?

Agree, with the last point, probably better to hold back a bit than spend decent money on players who might not be first choice.

Don't agree with the point about Kalinic I'm afraid, looks just as unconvincing as Nyland at the moment.  The goalkeeping situation this season has been a monumental balls up so far. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on February 12, 2019, 12:35:29 AM
You can’t just toss Callum Oh’Hare into professional games like a random cup game and expect him to just perform. It’s the mistake we made with Bannan to an extent, Albrighton and even someone like Daniel Johnson. We are now in a position where we can bring players through especially at this level. We have to commit to it and sending these kids out on loan and reintegrating them next season is absolutely the right approach.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on February 12, 2019, 12:51:20 AM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on February 12, 2019, 12:35:29 AM
You can’t just toss Callum Oh’Hare into professional games like a random cup game and expect him to just perform. It’s the mistake we made with Bannan to an extent, Albrighton and even someone like Daniel Johnson. We are now in a position where we can bring players through especially at this level. We have to commit to it and sending these kids out on loan and reintegrating them next season is absolutely the right approach.
Absolutely, its something we should of been doing years ago.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on February 12, 2019, 12:53:29 AM
Why does every player we sign have additional millions added to their fee? Fuck me, we pay enough anyway but reading this forum Kallenic cost £7m, Hogan £15m, McCormack and Kodjia £30m combined.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Louzie0 on February 12, 2019, 01:14:34 AM
I remember when players changed clubs for £50-odd and a packet of baccy.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on February 12, 2019, 12:00:42 PM
I never had you down as being born in the nineteenth century Louise.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on February 13, 2019, 09:43:51 PM
Poor tactics and result. I’m trying and failing to find positives in these results in relation to smith’s ability.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: GarTomas on February 13, 2019, 09:44:56 PM
Quote from: themossman on February 13, 2019, 09:43:51 PM
Poor tactics and result. I’m trying and failing to find positives in these results in relation to smith’s ability.

Which players that started tonight would you like to see in the team next year?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 13, 2019, 09:45:00 PM
Absolute garbage again Dean, truly shit.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Matt Collins on February 13, 2019, 09:45:00 PM
Outdone tactically first half

Second half was better as we pressed up

Needs time. But he's not doing well at the moment
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Davkaus on February 13, 2019, 09:45:10 PM
Smith Out.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Richard on February 13, 2019, 09:45:36 PM
No improvement on Bruce sorry to say
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on February 13, 2019, 09:45:36 PM
So far away from acceptable, it is truly worrying
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 13, 2019, 09:46:17 PM
He looks devoid of ideas as to how to turn this around.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: andyh on February 13, 2019, 09:46:22 PM
Out of his depth ?
We appear to have turned him into a ‘villa manager’ in double quick time.

Are all of our kids so shit that not a single one is knocking on the door of the first team?
It seems to me that he has his team and is very inflexible, despite him seeing we are shit.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: GarTomas on February 13, 2019, 09:46:28 PM
Quote from: Davkaus on February 13, 2019, 09:45:10 PM
Smith Out.

Behave.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 13, 2019, 09:46:29 PM
Yep miles away from acceptable. We were played off the park.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on February 13, 2019, 09:46:45 PM
Pathetic transfer window. Needed a dynamic midfielder and we got an injured one. Needed an excellent left back and we have a rubbish centre-half playing there.

I'm not in the Smith Out camp just yet, but a bad month including poor results against Albion and Blose could swing me.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 13, 2019, 09:47:04 PM
It looks like quite a few have allready left the club mentally.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on February 13, 2019, 09:47:40 PM
Quote from: GarTomas on February 13, 2019, 09:44:56 PM
Quote from: themossman on February 13, 2019, 09:43:51 PM
Poor tactics and result. I’m trying and failing to find positives in these results in relation to smith’s ability.

Which players that started tonight would you like to see in the team next year?

Ah I see, so it’s either all Smith’s fault or all the players’ fault. Because that’s how that works.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 13, 2019, 09:47:49 PM
As cd says, he's paying the price for a poor transfer window.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villafirst on February 13, 2019, 09:48:03 PM
Quote from: Richard on February 13, 2019, 09:45:36 PM
No improvement on Bruce sorry to say

But it's mostly Bruce's players....simply not good enough. Forget the play-offs.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Matt Collins on February 13, 2019, 09:48:17 PM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on February 13, 2019, 09:46:45 PM
Pathetic transfer window. Needed a dynamic midfielder and we got an injured one. Needed an excellent left back and we have a rubbish centre-half playing there.

I'm not in the Smith Out camp just yet, but a bad month including poor results against Albion and Blose could swing me.

Nobody had a good window. Tough market

Anyone calling for Smith out in the next months.. Well thats just embarrassing
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Grocer on February 13, 2019, 09:48:32 PM
Quote from: Davkaus on February 13, 2019, 09:45:10 PM
Smith Out.

Yeah let's get rid of another manager. Then get a new one, then get rid of them, then get a new one, then get rid of them........................that approach has worked brilliantly in recent years.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nelly on February 13, 2019, 09:48:34 PM
This whole project needs time and we need to hold our nerve as fans. The quick fix has failed us for the last twenty years.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: curiousorange on February 13, 2019, 09:48:44 PM
I'm asking questions, certainly. Chief amongst them, have the club given up this season? Because it bloody looks like it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: jwarry on February 13, 2019, 09:48:48 PM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on February 13, 2019, 09:46:45 PM
Pathetic transfer window. Needed a dynamic midfielder and we got an injured one. Needed an excellent left back and we have a rubbish centre-half playing there.

I'm not in the Smith Out camp just yet, but a bad month including poor results against Albion and Blose could swing me.

So who the fuck did you think was available and prepared to come to us?!?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on February 13, 2019, 09:49:05 PM
Two wins from twelve. Just saying like. Needs time but boy we are shit. That's our season over.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nev on February 13, 2019, 09:49:16 PM
Fuck the play offs, a decent finish with some half decent football will suffice but I fear Smith is all at sea at the moment. Same formation, constant swopping of out of form players and a worrying lack of motivation.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 13, 2019, 09:49:30 PM
Quote from: Nelly on February 13, 2019, 09:48:34 PM
This whole project needs time and we need to hold our nerve as fans. The quick fix has failed us for the last twenty years.

I think the issue is there is absolutely no sign of progress, none at all. In fact we’re getting worse by the game.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Pete3206 on February 13, 2019, 09:49:50 PM
'Project'? For fuck sake
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nii Lamptey on February 13, 2019, 09:50:08 PM
Job has to be under pressure now, if only for persisting with Hourihane. If there is no one good enough to fill that midfield slot, switch him out for a 2nd striker and 442.
No way we’re going to even get playoffs now, and our only half decent players will be packing their bags in the summer. We’d better get used to this shit hole of a league cos we’re not going anywhere for the foreseeable. 😔
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 13, 2019, 09:50:26 PM
There's just no sign of improvement, week after week.  The midfield without Jack is gash, so his signing of Carroll was absolute madness.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on February 13, 2019, 09:51:18 PM
It's not that tough a market. We saw about half a dozen players tonight who would have improved our team, all would be very familiar to Smith and all would crawl over broken glass to play for a club of our stature.

I find it difficult to believe there isn't a single available midfielder who can run ten yards without stopping for a breather on the entire planet.

Or a vaguely competent left-back who has experience of playing... at left-back.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on February 13, 2019, 09:51:37 PM
Quote from: Villafirst on February 13, 2019, 09:48:03 PM
Quote from: Richard on February 13, 2019, 09:45:36 PM
No improvement on Bruce sorry to say

But it's mostly Bruce's players....simply not good enough. Forget the play-offs.
.

He had Bruce’s players playing the best football in the league not that long ago and rightly got a lot of credit for that. He can’t have it both ways.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Grocer on February 13, 2019, 09:51:49 PM
Quote from: Nelly on February 13, 2019, 09:48:34 PM
This whole project needs time and we need to hold our nerve as fans. The quick fix has failed us for the last twenty years.

Absolutely spot on. It's easy to spout 'Smith out' etc in the heat of the moment. We have to give him time to build and hold our nerve.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 13, 2019, 09:52:11 PM
I am torn between the fact that he has inherited a poor unmotivated squad and the fact that he has insisted in trying to play a system that is not working.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on February 13, 2019, 09:52:20 PM
Quote from: Nii Lamptey on February 13, 2019, 09:50:08 PM
Job has to be under pressure now, if only for persisting with Hourihane. If there is no one good enough to fill that midfield slot, switch him out for a 2nd striker and 442.
Which is exactly what he did. Then we conceeded.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 13, 2019, 09:52:44 PM
Quote from: Grocer on February 13, 2019, 09:51:49 PM
Quote from: Nelly on February 13, 2019, 09:48:34 PM
This whole project needs time and we need to hold our nerve as fans. The quick fix has failed us for the last twenty years.

Absolutely spot on. It's easy to spout 'Smith out' etc in the heat of the moment. We have to give him time to build and hold our nerve.

I'm struggling to see any positive signs that he knows what needs to be done.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: GarTomas on February 13, 2019, 09:52:57 PM
Quote from: themossman on February 13, 2019, 09:47:40 PM
Quote from: GarTomas on February 13, 2019, 09:44:56 PM
Quote from: themossman on February 13, 2019, 09:43:51 PM
Poor tactics and result. I’m trying and failing to find positives in these results in relation to smith’s ability.

Which players that started tonight would you like to see in the team next year?

Ah I see, so it’s either all Smith’s fault or all the players’ fault. Because that’s how that works.

No. Smith has largely inherited a group of limited and average players.  Of the players we own only Grealish and McGinn I see starting next year. Abraham won't unless we go up.

I'm not sure what he's expected to do with what he's got. The January window was underwhelming I agree but it was a sellers market.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: adrenachrome on February 13, 2019, 09:53:20 PM
Quote from: Pete3206 on February 13, 2019, 09:49:50 PM
'Project'? For fuck sake

Reminds me of debates many  years ago involving Gant Diagrams and PERT charts.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 13, 2019, 09:53:27 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 13, 2019, 09:50:26 PM
There's just no sign of improvement, week after week.  The midfield without Jack is gash, so his signing of Carroll was absolute madness.

Nope it’s actually deteriorating. They look like they’ve never met, or if they have it was an hour before kick-off and they’ve downed several pints.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nelly on February 13, 2019, 09:53:28 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on February 13, 2019, 09:49:30 PM
Quote from: Nelly on February 13, 2019, 09:48:34 PM
This whole project needs time and we need to hold our nerve as fans. The quick fix has failed us for the last twenty years.

I think the issue is there is absolutely no sign of progress, none at all. In fact we’re getting worse by the game.

I hear that and see it. No argument - we were awful again tonight. We've lost key players and don't have ones of a similar ilk to step in. The players we do have aren't comfortable playing this way. It's going badly but I now just see the rest of this season as a tester to get it right for next time.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on February 13, 2019, 09:53:40 PM
The trouble is that while we are "holding our nerve", Grealish and McGinn will be transferred while Abraham will return to Chelsea (or go elsewhere). It is only going to get more difficult to get out of this league.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TheTimVilla on February 13, 2019, 09:53:44 PM
Seven points off the playoffs, having played a game more than most around us. Another shocking first half. He doesn’t seem to learn from his mistakes.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brassneck on February 13, 2019, 09:53:55 PM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on February 13, 2019, 09:46:45 PM
Pathetic transfer window. Needed a dynamic midfielder and we got an injured one. Needed an excellent left back and we have a rubbish centre-half playing there.

I'm not in the Smith Out camp just yet, but a bad month including poor results against Albion and Blose could swing me.

Who exactly do you think he should have signed?

We’re mid table in the championship.  Who do you realistically think was gettable?  Nobody in the top 2 divisions that’s for sure.

What trees do these dynamic midfielders and left backs grow on?  I must be sure to let Smith know.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ez on February 13, 2019, 09:54:01 PM
I want Smith to succeed but these poor performances are racking up now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 13, 2019, 09:54:41 PM
Quote from: Nii Lamptey on February 13, 2019, 09:50:08 PM
Job has to be under pressure now, if only for persisting with Hourihane. If there is no one good enough to fill that midfield slot, switch him out for a 2nd striker and 442.
No way we’re going to even get playoffs now, and our only half decent players will be packing their bags in the summer. We’d better get used to this shit hole of a league cos we’re not going anywhere for the foreseeable. 😔
Your point about Holigram is spot on, most of us can see that he is a total passenger jogging around the park yet Smith starts him every game and every game we are getting over run in midfield.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 13, 2019, 09:55:22 PM
The trouble is, we'll get to the end of the season, lose Tammy, Jack and McGinn, and we'll have to start again, plus the likes of Albert and Kodjia.  We'll then have the excuse that he'll be bedding in at least 6 new players, and another season will go begging.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: stubbsyandy on February 13, 2019, 09:56:15 PM
Its not working
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 13, 2019, 09:56:29 PM
The playoffs are completely beyond us now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nelly on February 13, 2019, 09:56:39 PM
Our better players will always get picked off though, that's nothing new. It's up to the club to have a decent recruitment policy married to a good academy to keep a succession and push forwards. Dare I say it, a bit like sodding brentford.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on February 13, 2019, 09:56:40 PM
I basically agree in principle with the give him time argument. But like I said in the match thread he is making it hard to stick to this position with his decision making around team selection and tactics.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 13, 2019, 09:57:03 PM
Quote from: ez on February 13, 2019, 09:54:01 PM
I want Smith to succeed but these poor performances are racking up now.

I’m sure everyone does, or at least everyone sensible. However he’s making it very hard to give him any credit at the moment.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Grocer on February 13, 2019, 09:57:18 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 13, 2019, 09:52:44 PM
Quote from: Grocer on February 13, 2019, 09:51:49 PM
Quote from: Nelly on February 13, 2019, 09:48:34 PM
This whole project needs time and we need to hold our nerve as fans. The quick fix has failed us for the last twenty years.

Absolutely spot on. It's easy to spout 'Smith out' etc in the heat of the moment. We have to give him time to build and hold our nerve.

I'm struggling to see any positive signs that he knows what needs to be done.

Fair enough, I get that. But we have to hold on to his track record of building teams over time. Also, we have to stop switching managers and constantly rebuilding, changing styles etc. We'll never build a successful team that way.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nelly on February 13, 2019, 09:57:56 PM
We've wasted three years with the wrong managers and wrong approach and we're paying for it now. It's a bit of a shite no man's land whichever way we look at it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 13, 2019, 09:57:59 PM
I still hope he turns it round, but showing improvement this season is vital.  Otherwise this summer will seem like starting from scratch again. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rigadon on February 13, 2019, 09:58:02 PM
Hmm.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: andyh on February 13, 2019, 09:59:02 PM
The point about the transfer window is a difficult one.
If I understand correctly, the set up of the club is that ‘suso’ identifies and brings them in and Smith has to coach them?
If he has identified Hause and the kid from Swansea’s treatment room, then I am not overly confident about the summer.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on February 13, 2019, 09:59:22 PM
Sometimes managers just can’t replicate their success at another club. No shame in that. He looks increasingly lost. When we were getting pissed on in the second half did anyone feel like smith had a decisive change in him?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: passport1 on February 13, 2019, 09:59:30 PM
Brentford dominated us more than any team they have played this season. That's a team set up and managed by their ex manager.That  alone should be cause for some concern.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 13, 2019, 10:00:05 PM
Quote from: andyh on February 13, 2019, 09:59:02 PM
The point about the transfer window is a difficult one.
If I understand correctly, the set up of the club is that ‘suso’ identifies and brings them in and Smith has to coach them?
If he has identified Hause and the kid from Swansea’s treatment room, then I am not overly confident about the summer.


Me either.  Not to mention that shit Spanish keeper.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on February 13, 2019, 10:00:16 PM
We are a mid table Championship side. Tonight wasn't that bad. In fact, it's what I expected, an ordinary performance from inconsistent players. A brilliant goal won the game. It's the hope that kills you. This season is done.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on February 13, 2019, 10:00:24 PM
‘They’ve done that for the last three or four years here’. Uh-oh.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on February 13, 2019, 10:00:41 PM
Quote from: Brassneck on February 13, 2019, 09:53:55 PM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on February 13, 2019, 09:46:45 PM
Pathetic transfer window. Needed a dynamic midfielder and we got an injured one. Needed an excellent left back and we have a rubbish centre-half playing there.

I'm not in the Smith Out camp just yet, but a bad month including poor results against Albion and Blose could swing me.

Who exactly do you think he should have signed?

We’re mid table in the championship.  Who do you realistically think was gettable?  Nobody in the top 2 divisions that’s for sure.

What trees do these dynamic midfielders and left backs grow on?  I must be sure to let Smith know.

If you don't think Aston Villa can attract any player "in the top two divisions" then I've no wish to discuss this with you any further.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 13, 2019, 10:01:12 PM
Quote from: themossman on February 13, 2019, 09:59:22 PM
Sometimes managers just can’t replicate their success at another club. No shame in that. He looks increasingly lost. When we were getting pissed on in the second half did anyone feel like smith had a decisive change in him?
He changed the personellnot the system or shape, it’s all a bit Brucelike.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 13, 2019, 10:01:45 PM
He's Delusional Dean if he thinks the play offs are still possible.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Pete3206 on February 13, 2019, 10:02:25 PM
Can't believe Smith is moaning about the penalty appeal. It wasn't  a pen and they had a better shout of one in the first half.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on February 13, 2019, 10:02:33 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 13, 2019, 09:56:29 PM
The playoffs are completely beyond us now.

Mathematically we still have a decent chance of the play offs. Realistically we don't look even close to putting a decent enough run together to make it a reality.

For me we need to stick with Smith and give him a summer of wheeling and dealing and pre season preparation.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Goldie.7 on February 13, 2019, 10:02:42 PM
The guy has no clue what he's doing... We look worst than we did under Bruce.

I see ZERO pressing from this lineup of individual players. 3 wins from 15 is abysmal and it needs to fucking change pronto.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: stubbsyandy on February 13, 2019, 10:03:33 PM
Right, sorry but Dean you  are delusional....should have had a pen, rubbish ref etc but e=we are being outplayed EVERY GAME
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 13, 2019, 10:04:19 PM
Quote from: Damo70 on February 13, 2019, 10:02:33 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 13, 2019, 09:56:29 PM
The playoffs are completely beyond us now.

Mathematically we still have a decent chance of the play offs.

Do we bloody hell.  Seven points behind having played a game more.  What mathematical system are you using to come up with that conclusion?!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Pete3206 on February 13, 2019, 10:06:25 PM
Wishful thinking system. We are done
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brassneck on February 13, 2019, 10:06:56 PM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on February 13, 2019, 10:00:41 PM
Quote from: Brassneck on February 13, 2019, 09:53:55 PM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on February 13, 2019, 09:46:45 PM
Pathetic transfer window. Needed a dynamic midfielder and we got an injured one. Needed an excellent left back and we have a rubbish centre-half playing there.

I'm not in the Smith Out camp just yet, but a bad month including poor results against Albion and Blose could swing me.

Who exactly do you think he should have signed?

We’re mid table in the championship.  Who do you realistically think was gettable?  Nobody in the top 2 divisions that’s for sure.

What trees do these dynamic midfielders and left backs grow on?  I must be sure to let Smith know.

If you don't think Aston Villa can attract any player "in the top two divisions" then I've no wish to discuss this with you any further.

So who was gettable then? We lost out on a LB in the summer because a PL side came in for him.  Do you really think any top half Championship side would allow us to take their best players in January? We haven’t even been able to do this in the past 3 summers.

All hail the saving grace though - Brentford have got a couple of decent players.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on February 13, 2019, 10:09:24 PM
Don't know what to do really.

Staggered how much we've declined in two months. We look just as clueless in all aspects of the game as the last six weeks under SB.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on February 13, 2019, 10:09:49 PM
My issue is I can't see what we're trying to do. I'd still be a bit pissed off but if we were getting these results but you could see what DS and the coaches were trying to implement i'd be a lot more patient. We just look a mess. Again.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 13, 2019, 10:09:57 PM
Quote from: Brassneck on February 13, 2019, 10:06:56 PM
So who was gettable then? We lost out on a LB in the summer because a PL side came in for him.  Do you really think any top half Championship side would allow us to take their best players in January? We haven’t even been able to do this in the past 3 summers.


We did exactly that when we signed Hourihane, Lansbury and Hogan in January 17. All at the time, amongst the better players at their respective clubs.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KRS on February 13, 2019, 10:09:59 PM
Anyone else pick up on the dig at the Villa players when speaking about Brentford in post game interview..."they have players that can pass and move". Clearly our bunch of useless fucktards can't even string a few passes to each other together or even co-ordinate a throw in...I feel sorry for him having to manage such a useless bunch of overpaid wankers.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: adrenachrome on February 13, 2019, 10:10:00 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 13, 2019, 10:04:19 PM
Quote from: Damo70 on February 13, 2019, 10:02:33 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 13, 2019, 09:56:29 PM
The playoffs are completely beyond us now.

Mathematically we still have a decent chance of the play offs.

Do we bloody hell.  Seven points behind having played a game more.  What mathematical system are you using to come up with that conclusion?!

Reverse Fibonacci Retracement possibly. Can't see it myself
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sickbeggar on February 13, 2019, 10:11:01 PM
I haven''t changed my opinion. I didn't think we had much hope of going up at the start of the season. You don't when you lose the players who got you to the play-offs the season before and we never very convincing then.. I will wait and see what Smith puts out next season because i really can't see a better alternative at the moment. I don't want another promotion expert arriving and you can bet your life that's what we'll get if they bin Smith.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Kimaster1976 on February 13, 2019, 10:12:39 PM
If we win the last 14 games we will probably go up automatically nevermind the play offs.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 13, 2019, 10:13:30 PM
Oh well, 5 easy games coming up for him to reinvigorate us.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brassneck on February 13, 2019, 10:14:28 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 13, 2019, 10:09:57 PM
Quote from: Brassneck on February 13, 2019, 10:06:56 PM
So who was gettable then? We lost out on a LB in the summer because a PL side came in for him.  Do you really think any top half Championship side would allow us to take their best players in January? We haven’t even been able to do this in the past 3 summers.


We did exactly that when we signed Hourihane, Lansbury and Hogan in January 17. All at the time, amongst the better players at their respective clubs.

Barnsley, forest & Brentford were top half? 

Besides, look how those 3 turned out.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 13, 2019, 10:15:14 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on February 13, 2019, 10:09:49 PM
My issue is I can't see what we're trying to do. I'd still be a bit pissed off but if we were getting these results but you could see what DS and the coaches were trying to implement i'd be a lot more patient. We just look a mess. Again.

And that’s just it. There is literally no sense that there’s any kind of plan or progress. It’s completely unacceptable, and sooner or later he’ll hopefully realise the system is not working.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VILLA MOLE on February 13, 2019, 10:15:53 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 13, 2019, 10:01:45 PM
He's Delusional Dean if he thinks the play offs are still possible.


its more I don't want this team anywhere near the playoffs/ premiership it would be more painful than this
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy65 on February 13, 2019, 10:18:33 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 13, 2019, 09:52:11 PM
I am torn between the fact that he has inherited a poor unmotivated squad and the fact that he has insisted in trying to play a system that is not working.

I think we accept there not his players but there has been no discernible improvement. There seems to be no tactical changes during the game or between games. It’s just the same old, same old. If you could see he was trying to change things but not getting the results, he would get some credit.

He needs to improve and fast or he will be gone in the summer. Our owners won’t be patient
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on February 13, 2019, 10:19:55 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on February 13, 2019, 10:09:49 PM
My issue is I can't see what we're trying to do. I'd still be a bit pissed off but if we were getting these results but you could see what DS and the coaches were trying to implement i'd be a lot more patient. We just look a mess. Again.

This.

We look like we did in 86-7 when we went down. Just no discernible shape, I couldn't see what we were trying to do let alone work out why we were failing to achieve it.

Hourihane persists week after week and shows the same problems every time. How does he not notice that? If he does notice it, why is it still happening?

What bit of being forced to work with players someone else bought explains the inability of our players to string more than two passes together?

He's got them playing for a spell of a few games when he came, so why can't he do it now?

It is just pathetic. I want him to succeed, he's one of our own etc etc but honestly, can anyone really defend the shite we've seen so far?

It's nowhere near acceptable and it looks like it is getting worse, not better.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on February 13, 2019, 10:23:57 PM
Brentford showed exactly how we fucked up with Bruce. They change manager but they just hire someone to carry on the previous work done. No major squad overhaul needed, no massive difference in playing style and so on. We have a bunch of players signed to play the Bruce way and seem incapable of playing football consistently so it's major overhauls all around. I really hope that even if DS fails we actually try some continuity in thinking when bringing in future managers, coaches and players, rather than this endless starting from scratch again that we seem to have specialised in since Pubehead went.
That said we have enough decent players, certainly going forward, that we should be better than what we've being serving up for a while.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Pete3206 on February 13, 2019, 10:24:04 PM
In 49 years on this earth, I have never once feared the Villa playing Smewthick. At this point, I'm worried.

Capital W
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on February 13, 2019, 10:25:21 PM
I think he's trying to get players to play a certain way and it just isn't working. He's got a sprinkling of truly talented players at the club who are technically gifted enough and intelligent enough to play the way he wants. After that we have a bunch of labourers. This is going to take a while to fix but the end result should look like the team that just beat us and should have beaten us far more comfortably on a fraction of the investment.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 13, 2019, 10:25:52 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on February 13, 2019, 10:19:55 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on February 13, 2019, 10:09:49 PM
My issue is I can't see what we're trying to do. I'd still be a bit pissed off but if we were getting these results but you could see what DS and the coaches were trying to implement i'd be a lot more patient. We just look a mess. Again.

This.

We look like we did in 86-7 when we went down. Just no discernible shape, I couldn't see what we were trying to do let alone work out why we were failing to achieve it.

Hourihane persists week after week and shows the same problems every time. How does he not notice that? If he does notice it, why is it still happening?

What bit of being forced to work with players someone else bought explains the inability of our players to string more than two passes together?

He's got them playing for a spell of a few games when he came, so why can't he do it now?

It is just pathetic. I want him to succeed, he's one of our own etc etc but honestly, can anyone really defend the shite we've seen so far?

It's nowhere near acceptable and it looks like it is getting worse, not better.
Agree, it’s his stubbornness which may mean there is no plan B.
If that is the case then he is no improvement on Bruce.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ez on February 13, 2019, 10:27:31 PM
It seems like a long time since we weren't second best in a game.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: stubbsyandy on February 13, 2019, 10:32:09 PM
Our wide players are useless...no attacking threat and no defensive strength..El Ghazi? ha!, Alberts shot, Kodjia doesnt like the system, Green isnt good enough
No leader in central mid, no cover for defence, no fullbacks......no plan
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 13, 2019, 10:34:19 PM
His failing has been to persist with Whelan and Hourihane in a 3.

I know what he wants to do and how he wants us to play. We juat cannot do it. Certainly there are failings elsewhere, but you cannot play a quick passing game when on the ball with Whelan and Hourihane and you cannot press when they're 66% of your midfield.

Whelan has us too deep and we concede territory and isolate Tammy. They're both slow in transition and they're doing it from 20 yards further back down the pitch.

Off the ball, Whelan is just far too slow. This is a season beyond him.

While Hourihane is weak and gives away so much space.

There are a number of players where it's a season too far. We're far too old and painfully slow. Hutton and Adomah are another two.

He needs to be radical and change the shape. He needs to.play Green as he is the future, thankfully the likes of Albert are not.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on February 13, 2019, 10:34:45 PM
I don't think we will have wingers next season. We will have 5 in midfield who will have better energy, pace and ball retention skills than any of these wankers we have now. What Smith is realizing very quickly is that most of these fuckers are worthless and the sooner they are of the books the better.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on February 13, 2019, 10:35:35 PM
In his good spell we had some diabolical results (forest) but pretty much all agreed they were the price of playing with a philosophy and points dropped were forgiven on that basis.

Genuinely baffling that he has abandoned that in favour of horrible attritional Bruceball.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on February 13, 2019, 10:36:17 PM
Quote from: Ads on February 13, 2019, 10:34:19 PM
His failing has been to persist with Whelan and Hourihane in a 3.

I know what he wants to do and how he wants us to play. We juat cannot do it. Certainly there are failings elsewhere, but you cannot play a quick passing game when on the ball with Whelan and Hourihane and you cannot press when they're 66% of your midfield.

Whelan has us too deep and we concede territory and isolate Tammy. They're both slow in transition and they're doing it from 20 yards further back down the pitch.

Off the ball, Whelan is just far too slow. This is a season beyond him.

While Hourihane is weak and gives away so much space.

There are a number of players where it's a season too far. We're far too old and painfully slow. Hutton and Adomah are another two.

He needs to be radical and change the shape. He needs to.play Green as he is the future, thankfully the likes of Albert are not.

How many times have I said that Ads? I agree entirely. Whelan forces us to play deep and Hourihane isn't a two way player. He's limited to what he does well which is mainly set pieces but also in an attacking capacity only. Ask him to do more he simply cannot do it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on February 13, 2019, 10:37:30 PM
Quote from: ez on February 13, 2019, 10:27:31 PM
It seems like a long time since we weren't second best in a game.

Stoke was definitely the cut off. I know because that was my daughter’s first game and bless her she has insisted on watching every increasingly shit and clueless performance since.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on February 13, 2019, 10:40:40 PM
There is going to be a mass clear out this summer and that alone is what will make me sleep happily tonight.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: WarszaVillan on February 13, 2019, 10:41:45 PM
We have to remember how close we were to going bankrupt last season. We went into this season completely unprepared, with an ageing and unbalanced squad filled up with half arsed loans.  It's obvious that the club decided this transfer window not to fill the squad up with new expensive players that would be another burden on the club in a few years. By next season Smith needs to have a young hard working squad, with a couple of real quality players to make us stand out from the rest. I hope that Smith is the man to turn things round, but he's pretty much going to have to start from scratch.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VILLA MOLE on February 13, 2019, 10:45:17 PM
the disappointing thing is the optimism has been flushed away over the last couple of months
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: curiousorange on February 13, 2019, 10:48:32 PM
I think some people assume a rebuild will be both easy and instant. That's certainly the feeling I get after performances like this on social media or wherever. But there's a lot of assumptions made about who we'll be able to junk, how much we'll get for them and who will replace them, and then that the new squad will take to Smith's system like the proverbials to water. That's a whole lot of ifs and buts. My fear is that the players we would like to build the squad around won't be here and the ones we put out for the dustmen won't get picked up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AV82EC on February 13, 2019, 10:48:49 PM
Sorry wrong thread, reposted to post match
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on February 13, 2019, 10:49:22 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on February 13, 2019, 10:40:40 PM
There is going to be a mass clear out this summer and that alone is what will make me sleep happily tonight.
This and I am already asleep.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 13, 2019, 10:50:18 PM
Adomah
Whelan
Jedinak
Elphick
Hutton

All out of contract, thankfully. That would be a start.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: andyh on February 13, 2019, 10:50:25 PM
Pretty much spot on AV82EC
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on February 13, 2019, 10:52:37 PM
We’re all assuming Smith is a good long term option on the basis that he'll build a squad that can play his way. Is there any actual evidence that this is his remit? Or is a better measure of his suitability his ability to coach loan-to-buy signings who think they’re better than us?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Deano's Mullet on February 13, 2019, 10:56:02 PM
We've forgotten how to score away from home now too which is a worry. 3-4 games now without a goal.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 13, 2019, 10:58:29 PM
We've got it wrong for 5 windows down here.

Bruce gambled the farm on a one season crack at it and failed badly. Now there's only players too old and slow to be whipped into any and it shows.

He needs to have the chance to rip the squad apart.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on February 13, 2019, 11:01:39 PM
You are right of course Ads but the acid test will be who he replaces the rubbish with.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on February 13, 2019, 11:02:59 PM
Quote from: themossman on February 13, 2019, 10:52:37 PM
We’re all assuming Smith is a good long term option on the basis that he'll build a squad that can play his way. Is there any actual evidence that this is his remit? Or is a better measure of his suitability his ability to coach loan-to-buy signings who think they’re better than us?

Given how relaxed our January was e.g. not replacing Bolasie or Hogan who left and were players in key areas and the general talk of lowering the average age of the squad, I don't see DS being sacked anytime soon.

He's here for next season and will be properly judged much like Steve Bruce was.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aldridgeboy on February 13, 2019, 11:04:46 PM
What I’m struggling is, when he came in we seemed to be great for 4 or 5 games ? And it was Bruce’s squad then, as it mostly is now.
It just seemed at the time it was more than just “ new manager bounce”

It also seemed a very baffling transfer window, where we had real obvious weaknesses.

We just seen a bit lacking in anything at the moment. Shape, desire, quality, cutting edge, threat. If Tammy doesn’t score we look doomed.

Smith has to take some of the blame here? Yes he’s going to have a summer clear out ( hopefully), but he needs to start next season well for me
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on February 13, 2019, 11:08:19 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on February 13, 2019, 10:34:45 PM
I don't think we will have wingers next season. We will have 5 in midfield who will have better energy, pace and ball retention skills than any of these wankers we have now. What Smith is realizing very quickly is that most of these fuckers are worthless and the sooner they are of the books the better.

I agree with you 100% but how many years now have we been saying exactly the same thing?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdward on February 13, 2019, 11:09:48 PM
My theory is the players have given up, knowing that the owners, manager and back room staff have already agreed that promotion this season is not required.

Any players that might be here next season, will start performing then, any that know they will be shipped out are just going through the motions.
Hard to motivate a team when there is no incentive to win games.

Expectations at Villa are now to stay in this league until next season, so the players and staff are meeting that expectation, and the owners are happy with it too. It's only us fans that aren't happy with it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 13, 2019, 11:11:45 PM
We did ponder on the walk back to the car whether there's an element of that.

Not so much given up, but knowing that they're off and whether it's having an affect.

Needs must.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 13, 2019, 11:11:50 PM
There is no way the owners said, ok chaps just stay here for another year and don’t try.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on February 13, 2019, 11:13:41 PM
Quote from: cdward on February 13, 2019, 11:09:48 PM
My theory is the players have given up, knowing that the owners, manager and back room staff have already agreed that promotion this season is not required.

Any players that might be here next season, will start performing then, any that know they will be shipped out are just going through the motions.
Hard to motivate a team when there is no incentive to win games.

Expectations at Villa are now to stay in this league until next season, so the players and staff are meeting that expectation, and the owners are happy with it too. It's only us fans that aren't happy with it.


Given what was said about the average about a good 10 of them know they're gone aswell.

Jedinak, Whelan both out of contract, Bjarni gone, El Ghazi permanent not taken up, think Albert will be moved on, Hutton contract ended so would imagine with the new French RB he'll be finally let go. Likes of Taylor and AEM will probably be moved on for small fees as both still have a year left. Kodjia in and out so another in the exit category.

That's before you go to players leaving who you want to keep and obviously Jack and McGinn fit that category.

It will be our biggest squad overhaul since summer 2015. Let's hope it turns out a bit better than that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 13, 2019, 11:17:27 PM
Pretty much the list we came up with SHQ. It must have an impact. It would if there was talk around our own jobs.

It's the bitter pill that we must swallow and it's come 3 years too late.

But Smith doesn't do himself favours by not starting Green for example. He had missed so much football. Let him play every game until the end of the season and give him the experience he should have got 2 years ago.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on February 13, 2019, 11:20:48 PM
Only Kalinic, Guilbert, Grealish and McGinn make the starting line up. The rest of the squad needs to be purchased or loaned in. Massive task ahead.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on February 13, 2019, 11:21:05 PM
Seems a bit far fetched. Do footballers really think like that? This would mean they were giving up when we were one win off the playoffs.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on February 13, 2019, 11:23:26 PM
Sorry Ads but I think Green is pony. He might come good and you're absolutely right to try but I see nothing in him that tells me he gonna be a good winger. Might need to switch positions perhaps.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on February 13, 2019, 11:25:14 PM
I didn't want Smith but was and still am willing to give him time.

But the evidence is stacking up that he's not as good an appointment as was first thought.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ASHTONVILLA on February 13, 2019, 11:25:31 PM
Quote from: Newby on February 13, 2019, 11:23:26 PM
Sorry Ads but I think Green is pony. He might come good and you're absolutely right to try but I see nothing in him that tells me he gonna be a good winger. Might need to switch positions perhaps.

We played better after he came on.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 13, 2019, 11:27:31 PM
Let's find out. We know Albert has had it, Green will be here next season. I happen to disagree and think we have a very raw talent, who hasn't played enough senior games.

This is Smith's failing, the repetition of the same faces and system when it's not working.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on February 13, 2019, 11:28:30 PM
Quote from: ASHTONVILLA on February 13, 2019, 11:25:31 PM
Quote from: Newby on February 13, 2019, 11:23:26 PM
Sorry Ads but I think Green is pony. He might come good and you're absolutely right to try but I see nothing in him that tells me he gonna be a good winger. Might need to switch positions perhaps.

We played better after he came on.

He wasted every cross he had, lost the ball several times.  I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder when it comes to Green for me. I just don't rate the chap.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdward on February 13, 2019, 11:35:05 PM
Maybe saying the players have given up is too blunt. Demotivated? Disenfranchised? Whatever it is it's what professional footballers can do. Look at Man U players during and after Mourinho.

I think Smith is keeping our younger players, Green, Davis, O'Hare out of it until next season, and there will be a massive rebuilding job.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on February 13, 2019, 11:51:09 PM
Quote from: Newby on February 13, 2019, 11:20:48 PM
Only Kalinic, Guilbert, Grealish and McGinn make the starting line up. The rest of the squad needs to be purchased or loaned in. Massive task ahead.

I would like us to sign Mings full time. Young and can play two positions reasonably well (going on LB by him playing well previously for Ipswich). If we get rid of Hutton, AEM and Taylor that should give us enough scope in the budget to do it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tomd2103 on February 14, 2019, 12:19:50 AM
Quote from: Ads on February 13, 2019, 11:27:31 PM
Let's find out. We know Albert has had it, Green will be here next season. I happen to disagree and think we have a very raw talent, who hasn't played enough senior games.

This is Smith's failing, the repetition of the same faces and system when it's not working.

He hasn't really got much choice when it comes to personnel though Ads, so I guess he has to use the same faces.  I find his unwillingness to change the formation a bit concerning.  It hasn't been working for some weeks, but he keeps persisting with it. 

I am sure him and many others at the club wish the season could end now.  It could very messy from here on in though, especially with games against the Albion and Blues between now and then.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Des Little on February 14, 2019, 12:24:04 AM
I’d be less worried if I could decipher a style of play, a pattern that players play to and a general belief that they actually know what they’re doing. Unfortunately, this isn’t the case, we are going from back to front via hoofball, and our ability to pass, move and create space is next to nothing. At present I see nothing different to anything outer last three managers have dished up, which is basically anti football.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on February 14, 2019, 01:28:20 AM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on February 13, 2019, 11:08:19 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on February 13, 2019, 10:34:45 PM
I don't think we will have wingers next season. We will have 5 in midfield who will have better energy, pace and ball retention skills than any of these wankers we have now. What Smith is realizing very quickly is that most of these fuckers are worthless and the sooner they are of the books the better.

I agree with you 100% but how many years now have we been saying exactly the same thing?

I know. I suppose my naivety or faith is what I have seen Brentford do to us the last few years and most of tonight. That one day we can be like them...

Be like Brentford. Fuck me.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LowerNorthStand on February 14, 2019, 02:55:11 AM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on February 14, 2019, 01:28:20 AM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on February 13, 2019, 11:08:19 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on February 13, 2019, 10:34:45 PM
I don't think we will have wingers next season. We will have 5 in midfield who will have better energy, pace and ball retention skills than any of these wankers we have now. What Smith is realizing very quickly is that most of these fuckers are worthless and the sooner they are of the books the better.

I agree with you 100% but how many years now have we been saying exactly the same thing?

I know. I suppose my naivety or faith is what I have seen Brentford do to us the last few years and most of tonight. That one day we can be like them...

Be like Brentford. Fuck me.

They play us off the park. EVERY SINGLE TIME  :P
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: wittonwarrior on February 14, 2019, 02:58:09 AM
Dean Smith has tried to mix and match - but he is just making it worse at the moment.  I never thought it was possible to have a worse left back than Taylor - wrong.

Ming decent defender but  he hoofs the thing.
Hause - total German Shepard
Keeper -no better than Steer
Wingers - not a decent one amongst the three of them.

A big rethink in the summer.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LowerNorthStand on February 14, 2019, 03:02:26 AM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on February 13, 2019, 11:25:14 PM
I didn't want Smith but was and still am willing to give him time.

But the evidence is stacking up that he's not as good an appointment as was first thought.

A team full of millionaires thinking they are the dogs bollocks because they play for Aston Villa. That's the reality. They are largely poor at what they do. Looked decent in December but we have fallen off a cliff since then. They are lazy.

I cant see them being much bothered. From what I saw tonight they struggle to run with a ball. Boneheads.

How about a performance related monthly pay Dean Smith?... to focus a few minds 8)

The manager has his job cut out. And in order to do a good job he needs to cut into this team. It will take three transfer windows at least.

No more journey men or big buck signing donkeys. Maupay signing for 2 million for Brentford tells you everything. Give me more McGinn's and less Kodjia`s

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KRS on February 14, 2019, 05:05:13 AM
Is it any real surprise we're so shit given the squad Smith inherited from Bruce?! Someone posted something last week which was very true...a lot of ppl on here expect a new manager to come in, sprinkle some magic dust and expect him to turn a load of over paid and over rated shite players into league winner.

When he arrived, we had pretty much a fully fit squad and we certainly had a new manager bounce as Smith was praising the players for how quickly they were learning and adapting to the new style of play...this showed in both performances and results. What happened next has been a load of injuries to some of our best players...Grealish, Axel, Chester...the consequence has been those players have had to be replaced by others that are quite simply not good enough and performances have dropped off a cliff. Add in injuries to Adomah and BB who have come back as even worse versions than they were then it comes as no surprise.

Other than SJM, the best/only options available in midfield are Whelan (old, slow and shite), Hologram (lightweight and shite), Jedinak (old, slow, shite and can't pass), Adomah (never been that good), BB (always been shite), Kodjia (half the player since injured), El Ghazi (one game wonder) and Green (barely played but not shown us too much). These players are either past it, on the way out of the club or just not arsed so it's no wonder why we fail to create anything, we lose possession and it's back to the wall again with a creaking defence.

Speaking of which...Smith was left with one fit CB thanks to Bruce, and a whole host of useless shite as a supporting cast...step forward Hutton, Elmo and Taylor. When the best players in the back line are the recalled Elphick and a loanee from Bournemouth to lead the back line then you know you're in a whole world of shit. The less said about the clusterfuck collection of goalkeepers we have at the club the better.

It's hard to pin the drop in performances on losing Grealish and Axel, but there's no other explanation as to how things can turn to shit so quickly...it's more than just a coincidence that if you put shit players on the pitch to replace them then you end up with a shit team playing shit football. Dean Smith doesn't have any anti-shit magic dust.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rigadon on February 14, 2019, 07:00:58 AM
I can't help but think that in some peoples minds the squad has gone from being highly rated / poorly coached to a pile of shite / un-improvable without major surgery.  I get why people want to cut DS slack - I think almost all of us do actually.  But this run is dire and the football of late is utter bilge. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sid1964 on February 14, 2019, 07:11:36 AM
The thing that disappointed me about Smith last night was the fact that he did not change the system / tactics during the game, if I remember rightly last season when he was Manager of Brentford and we played them at their place, after about 20 minutes of the game he changed tactics early in the game, which helped them beat us.

Maybe he thinks that he does not have the players to do this?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on February 14, 2019, 07:12:26 AM
Smith is heading the same way as all previous managers in the last nine years.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: colin69 on February 14, 2019, 07:16:13 AM
The football under Dean at the moment is disappointing to say the least.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villa75 on February 14, 2019, 07:26:49 AM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on February 14, 2019, 01:28:20 AM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on February 13, 2019, 11:08:19 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on February 13, 2019, 10:34:45 PM
I don't think we will have wingers next season. We will have 5 in midfield who will have better energy, pace and ball retention skills than any of these wankers we have now. What Smith is realizing very quickly is that most of these fuckers are worthless and the sooner they are of the books the better.

I agree with you 100% but how many years now have we been saying exactly the same thing?

I know. I suppose my naivety or faith is what I have seen Brentford do to us the last few years and most of tonight. That one day we can be like them...

Be like Brentford. Fuck me.

We're already like Brentford under Smith. What was his win rate there, with "his own players"? 33%? We can't be far off that already.

perhaps that's the peak of his ability, with a bit of fancy football now and again? This isn't Brentford though.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on February 14, 2019, 07:28:30 AM
two wins in 12 games is shite .
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on February 14, 2019, 07:50:02 AM
You can’t play that system without Jack, yet Dean continues to do so. Just bloody stop it now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: andyh on February 14, 2019, 07:54:41 AM
Quote from: Three Spires Villa on February 14, 2019, 07:50:02 AM
You can’t play that system without Jack, yet Dean continues to do so. Just bloody stop it now.
Well, to be honest, we may as well get used to it. I reckon we have another 10 games or so when Jack comes back and then sadly, we’ll be saying bye.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on February 14, 2019, 07:58:43 AM
Quote from: andyh on February 14, 2019, 07:54:41 AM
Quote from: Three Spires Villa on February 14, 2019, 07:50:02 AM
You can’t play that system without Jack, yet Dean continues to do so. Just bloody stop it now.
Well, to be honest, we may as well get used to it. I reckon we have another 10 games or so when Jack comes back and then sadly, we’ll be saying bye.

Here’s a mad, crazy idea, why not try something different? Have a go in training, then try it in a game. I’m sure I saw somewhere something about formations, and playing a system to try and suit your squad, nope sorry, I must have dreamt it. Get a bloody grip Dean !!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on February 14, 2019, 08:00:40 AM
Quote from: cdward on February 13, 2019, 11:35:05 PM
Maybe saying the players have given up is too blunt. Demotivated? Disenfranchised? Whatever it is it's what professional footballers can do. Look at Man U players during and after Mourinho.

I think Smith is keeping our younger players, Green, Davis, O'Hare out of it until next season, and there will be a massive rebuilding job.




if that’s the master plan he needs to leave right now

I’m all for playing younger players but now is the time to see how they get on

it’s no good experimenting at the start of next season and hoping for the best
start them all now and coach them the way you want them to play that way at least we will have a clue which ones we can go with

right now we haven’t got a lot to lose as we are as bad as at any time I can remember

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on February 14, 2019, 08:08:21 AM
exactly yet more nonsense - its probably because he's selecting players who know they won't be here next season. Smith's now into full on beleaguered manager excuse time.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nunkin1965 on February 14, 2019, 08:18:06 AM
Quote from: sid1964 on February 14, 2019, 07:11:36 AM
The thing that disappointed me about Smith last night was the fact that he did not change the system / tactics during the game, if I remember rightly last season when he was Manager of Brentford and we played them at their place, after about 20 minutes of the game he changed tactics early in the game, which helped them beat us.

Maybe he thinks that he does not have the players to do this?

You could argue that he had coached players to adapt and change mid-game.
Something which seems a bit beyond this lot.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on February 14, 2019, 08:33:55 AM
Agree with john e and Mr U.  Where we are now is becoming a Groundhog Eric Black Day.  Now is the time to start to prepare for August.  The starting team for the first game of next season must have NO clapped out old journeymen players running down their careers on big wages, or prima donnas who think they are too good for us or players being shoehorned into positions for which they are not suited or players in the team because they cost a lot of money or players who play to the crowd and have songs sung about them or players carrying injuries or players who claim to be carrying injuries or players with dysfunctional character defects of any kind.  Get a squad of young, keen  fit, healthy, sober, sane, athletic, ambitious players who can play as a team and get it together for the START of the season  not Christmas, not Easter not the season after next.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AV82EC on February 14, 2019, 08:45:45 AM
Quote from: KRS on February 14, 2019, 05:05:13 AM
Is it any real surprise we're so shit given the squad Smith inherited from Bruce?! Someone posted something last week which was very true...a lot of ppl on here expect a new manager to come in, sprinkle some magic dust and expect him to turn a load of over paid and over rated shite players into league winner.

When he arrived, we had pretty much a fully fit squad and we certainly had a new manager bounce as Smith was praising the players for how quickly they were learning and adapting to the new style of play...this showed in both performances and results. What happened next has been a load of injuries to some of our best players...Grealish, Axel, Chester...the consequence has been those players have had to be replaced by others that are quite simply not good enough and performances have dropped off a cliff. Add in injuries to Adomah and BB who have come back as even worse versions than they were then it comes as no surprise.

Other than SJM, the best/only options available in midfield are Whelan (old, slow and shite), Hologram (lightweight and shite), Jedinak (old, slow, shite and can't pass), Adomah (never been that good), BB (always been shite), Kodjia (half the player since injured), El Ghazi (one game wonder) and Green (barely played but not shown us too much). These players are either past it, on the way out of the club or just not arsed so it's no wonder why we fail to create anything, we lose possession and it's back to the wall again with a creaking defence.

Speaking of which...Smith was left with one fit CB thanks to Bruce, and a whole host of useless shite as a supporting cast...step forward Hutton, Elmo and Taylor. When the best players in the back line are the recalled Elphick and a loanee from Bournemouth to lead the back line then you know you're in a whole world of shit. The less said about the clusterfuck collection of goalkeepers we have at the club the better.

It's hard to pin the drop in performances on losing Grealish and Axel, but there's no other explanation as to how things can turn to shit so quickly...it's more than just a coincidence that if you put shit players on the pitch to replace them then you end up with a shit team playing shit football. Dean Smith doesn't have any anti-shit magic dust.

Is the correct answer.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: andyh on February 14, 2019, 09:00:51 AM
Not a single player has improved since Smith took over.
Not a single one.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Deano's Mullet on February 14, 2019, 09:02:21 AM
We could be as low as 14th on Saturday. Morale must be shot.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on February 14, 2019, 09:13:42 AM
Quote from: AV82EC on February 14, 2019, 08:45:45 AM
Quote from: KRS on February 14, 2019, 05:05:13 AM
Is it any real surprise we're so shit given the squad Smith inherited from Bruce?! Someone posted something last week which was very true...a lot of ppl on here expect a new manager to come in, sprinkle some magic dust and expect him to turn a load of over paid and over rated shite players into league winner.

When he arrived, we had pretty much a fully fit squad and we certainly had a new manager bounce as Smith was praising the players for how quickly they were learning and adapting to the new style of play...this showed in both performances and results. What happened next has been a load of injuries to some of our best players...Grealish, Axel, Chester...the consequence has been those players have had to be replaced by others that are quite simply not good enough and performances have dropped off a cliff. Add in injuries to Adomah and BB who have come back as even worse versions than they were then it comes as no surprise.

Other than SJM, the best/only options available in midfield are Whelan (old, slow and shite), Hologram (lightweight and shite), Jedinak (old, slow, shite and can't pass), Adomah (never been that good), BB (always been shite), Kodjia (half the player since injured), El Ghazi (one game wonder) and Green (barely played but not shown us too much). These players are either past it, on the way out of the club or just not arsed so it's no wonder why we fail to create anything, we lose possession and it's back to the wall again with a creaking defence.

Speaking of which...Smith was left with one fit CB thanks to Bruce, and a whole host of useless shite as a supporting cast...step forward Hutton, Elmo and Taylor. When the best players in the back line are the recalled Elphick and a loanee from Bournemouth to lead the back line then you know you're in a whole world of shit. The less said about the clusterfuck collection of goalkeepers we have at the club the better.

It's hard to pin the drop in performances on losing Grealish and Axel, but there's no other explanation as to how things can turn to shit so quickly...it's more than just a coincidence that if you put shit players on the pitch to replace them then you end up with a shit team playing shit football. Dean Smith doesn't have any anti-shit magic dust.

Is the correct answer.

Im not saying he has got magic dust, or anti shit dust, but what he does have is a squad of players, who he could in my humble use better than he has. Im not saying they are great. I am not a manager or a coach, and yes its easy in the stands (well its not actually!!) or in the pub, but try something else, maybe two up front? If we play that system, with the same players I really do not know when we will next win a game. WBA and the blues will easily beat us. Very disappointed with how this has turned out so far
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brassneck on February 14, 2019, 09:22:55 AM
Quote from: Villa75 on February 14, 2019, 07:26:49 AM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on February 14, 2019, 01:28:20 AM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on February 13, 2019, 11:08:19 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on February 13, 2019, 10:34:45 PM
I don't think we will have wingers next season. We will have 5 in midfield who will have better energy, pace and ball retention skills than any of these wankers we have now. What Smith is realizing very quickly is that most of these fuckers are worthless and the sooner they are of the books the better.

I agree with you 100% but how many years now have we been saying exactly the same thing?

We're like Brentford?

I know. I suppose my naivety or faith is what I have seen Brentford do to us the last few years and most of tonight. That one day we can be like them...

Be like Brentford. Fuck me.

We're already like Brentford under Smith. What was his win rate there, with "his own players"? 33%? We can't be far off that already.

perhaps that's the peak of his ability, with a bit of fancy football now and again? This isn't Brentford though.

Forgive me - I must have missed the intricate passing, movement and pressing from our players.

Remember it is Smith who got Brentford to where they are and playing that way - As he did at Walsall.  Under Smith, Brentford punched massively above their weight, as do Bournmouth in the PL.  Smith hasn't suddenly become a bad coach.  It HAS to be the players at his disposal.  Brian Little had identical issues when he took over from BFR.

You're right though, this isn't Brentford so perhaps Smith can do better once he's been able to make changes to the squad in the summer?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on February 14, 2019, 09:25:03 AM
 managers can only manage with what they have, granted, but as average as some are in the squad, Dean should be flexible enough to mix things up and get more than 2 wins in 2. Even Four in 12 would  have see us  in contention for a lay off place
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brassneck on February 14, 2019, 09:39:08 AM
Quote from: mr underhill on February 14, 2019, 09:25:03 AM
managers can only manage with what they have, granted, but as average as some are in the squad, Dean should be flexible enough to mix things up and get more than 2 wins in 2. Even Four in 12 would  have see us  in contention for a lay off place

I accept this.  I am not saying that Smith is doing a great job.  I'm sure he knows that it hasn't gone as well as he would have hoped or his employers would have expected.

I don't buy into this "mixing things up" though?  I'm not sure exactly what he is supposed to do to change it.  It could be that he's looked at what he has and made the decision that the best policy is to  keep it as it is to a certain extent because to drastically change it at this stage could have even worse results.  Pound to a penny, the change will take place in the summer.

For me personally, Smith has a free pass at the moment.  I accept he isn't doing great but he's lost his star player and still has the side in a higher position than when he took over.  If by about this time next year, I see no improvement (as was the case with Bruce 2 years after his appointment), I will begin to question Smith.  However, I do not expect miracles between now and the end of the season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 14, 2019, 10:12:28 AM
I think it is the players, but Smith has to ackowldge that only a certain few can do what he wants and we should adapt accordingly.

442 last night we were no more open than we had been with 3. We pressed up for 5 minutes at the start of the half but soon retreated and lost teritory. Nothing changed until we altered shape.

Hourihane
Whelna
Jedinak
BB

All of them slow, poor on the ball, poor off it or a combination of them.

Above all else it's that midfield.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 14, 2019, 10:19:34 AM
Four teams above us in the next five games, and two local derbies. I’d suggest that now would be a very good time for a dramatic improvement in form, or Smith might find things rather tricky for himself.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on February 14, 2019, 10:21:30 AM
Smith wanted young, quick, energetic players to play his ''system''. How does this balance with playing Hause as a fullback seeing as quite frankly at the moment he looks a giant carthorse.

We seemed to have learnt nothing at all from summers of disjointed and plain dumb recruitment windows. We've ended up again signing a bunch of players who aren't fully fit either. Loan signings are meant to be impact signings, can anyone explain what the reasoning is behind getting them in for a few months, building up match fitness and then sending them back?

We desperately needed a mobile midfielder, desperately, we all knew that the current rabble are a much of a muchness and just swapping names on a team sheet, we ended up with a bloke who's spent a good part of this season injured, who surprisingly is injured already.

Who is making these decisions?

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on February 14, 2019, 10:23:04 AM
Oh and the football is diabolical, we haven't put in a shift for 2 months, again. For about the 6th time since we've been down in this shit hole we've gone missing for large chunks of a season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: andyh on February 14, 2019, 10:29:30 AM
I think we all agree that the majority of the players do not fit Smiths requirements.
But, the bar and expectations were set with the Middlesboro, Derby, WBA performances. Even Swansea in the league was better than the shite we are witnessing now.

Yes, I know Jack and Axel are missing now, but losing those 2 should not mean that the swing from very good to utter shite, should be so dramatic and so quick.

I can’t help wondering that the declaration that we do not ‘need’ to go up this year has had an impact on the mentality of the squad.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ketzster on February 14, 2019, 10:35:28 AM
What happens if you give Smith the beginning of next season, and he loses say two players to injury? We know what happens now if that happens and you can’t afford for it to happen again. Smith has shown he is totally incapable of managing it. Surely if any other manager had been in the position where the team was playing like we have, certainly since Preston away, and certainly since the absolute disgrace at Wigan, they’d have changed the formation and tried something different? That’s why I don’t think Dean Smith is up to the job. He never uses substitutions to change formation, like the appalling triple substitution at Wigan, and it makes me think he is too inflexible to be a success. He literally has one way of playing and if it doesn’t work you’ve had it. If you were a player and you know it’s not working, you’d probably be thinking why does he keep persisting with this. For this reason  it wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest if he’s ‘lost the dressing room’. For all the stick the players get, Smith needs to take a fair amount too for the decisions he’s made. Not once has he tried 4-4-2 with Davis for example so the ball might stay up front longer etc. It doesn’t matter who we’ve played, home or away, against better teams or struggling, he sets us up the same. And the better managers don’t do that.

When we were getting battered in the relegation season at least we were playing Man Utd, Liverpool etc. Dean Smith has overseen us getting battered by Wigan, Hull for the first half at home, Swansea in the cup, Sheffield Utd at home for 82 mins. They were new low level showings and that’s in amongst the other dross that’s been served up in the other 9 or so games since the Albion

Yes some players need to go, or they will be out of contract in the summer, but the first thing I would do is change the manager
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: steamer on February 14, 2019, 10:37:07 AM
I was a bit underwhelmed with the appointment of Smith but had never wanted Bruce and if it had not been for the turmoil around Tony, he should have gone after the Fulham game.
Getting a proven Manager in Mid season was never going to happen, so I guess with Smith it was a case of, he is available, done a decent job with Brentford, he has potential.
But if we carry on for the rest of the season like the last 12 games, the owners have a big call to make.
He can not be immune from criticism for the dreadful performances we have seen, and yes I know Jack and Axel are missing,
New team in the summer, of his choice.
I honestly do not know, what I do know is that I am becoming more despondent and less optimistic of this  working.
Please prove me wrong and win some fucking games.   
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ASHTONVILLA on February 14, 2019, 10:41:01 AM
Whatever the reasons he is doing a poor job at the moment.

Yes the squad is unbalanced, but what has he done to address it? He sticks to a formation that the players he has can't play, and is not the tactically clued up manager I though we were getting. Indeed he is just as inflexible as Bruce.

The transfer business in January was baffling. I know that is not all down to Smith, but we seem to have spent £5m too much for yet another below average keeper whilst loaning several unfit players that do not address the main problems preventing his system working (lack of pace in midfield, no decent defensive midfield, and better overlapping fullbacks).

I don't think the number of players that know they are out inn the summer helps matters, but there again why are we not giving more game time to younger players that will be still here. Green was not great last night, but he was still better then Al Ghazi so why not give him the game time and experience. Davis should be playing too.

He did for a few short weeks have us looking pretty good, but there again so did Sherwood. Lets hope Grealish and Axel come back soon and it clicks again like it did when he first arrived.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on February 14, 2019, 10:46:35 AM
From the post-match thread.

Quote from: Chris Smith on February 14, 2019, 08:37:29 AM
The team assembled by Dean Smith played the one he now manages off the park. It’s hardly stretching credulity to expect that when he has had time to implement his plans at Villa we will see similar performances.

Precisely.

He did almost say as much in the post-match interview but there's not much he can say to appease the fans is there?

I'm not sure why he should change the system to suit the players.

We HAVE to remember that we need to build for the future, not the present. He needs time to embed this system that he wants to play and whilst we have players who can't or won't, it's going to be ugly.

The players need practise to get better, and lets' face it for many of them it's yet another new style after their former clubs and/or our former managers. It takes time. I think the sooner we accept that this season is not one for achieving promotion the better, though I'm pissed off with that and am struggling to accept it.

Our owners and CEO have said promotion this season isn't essential, and I think that's because they understand it takes time. I hope they hold their nerve.

With peopel questioning Smith's ability and approach so soon into his tenure it seems that fans will start getting on his back soon and if that happens you can start preparing for Allardyce or similar and you can think about us getting new owners too.

We have to accept that our club has been rotten for years, trying to act all billy big bollocks buying all the talent and payign over the odds for it rather than developing a system, style and sustainable model. For examples of club's doing it see Brighton, Bournemouth, Huddersfield, Leicester, Wolves, Norwich, Watford and Burnley.

The advantage we have is that when we do it, and start improving, we have the advantage of our heritage, tradition and size to attract a better calibre of player to suit our system. See Man City for an example of buying the best to suit their system.

I dont' want Smith to abandon his principles and approach just because it's not working in the here and now. He's done it before, see Brentford as the key example. Players developed in a system, players brought in to replace them. When we lose Grealish, under a system we'd be able to replace him without huge disruption. Right now, because we're a shambles losing him will be dreadful (has been due to injury).

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clark W Griswold on February 14, 2019, 10:53:07 AM
I will admit that I'm having doubts but he has to have all of next season as a minimum. The board decided he was 'the man' so he needs time and the chance to live up to it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brassneck on February 14, 2019, 10:54:34 AM
Quote from: Ketzster on February 14, 2019, 10:35:28 AM
What happens if you give Smith the beginning of next season, and he loses say two players to injury? We know what happens now if that happens and you can’t afford for it to happen again. Smith has shown he is totally incapable of managing it. Surely if any other manager had been in the position where the team was playing like we have, certainly since Preston away, and certainly since the absolute disgrace at Wigan, they’d have changed the formation and tried something different? That’s why I don’t think Dean Smith is up to the job. He never uses substitutions to change formation, like the appalling triple substitution at Wigan, and it makes me think he is too inflexible to be a success. He literally has one way of playing and if it doesn’t work you’ve had it. If you were a player and you know it’s not working, you’d probably be thinking why does he keep persisting with this. For this reason  it wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest if he’s ‘lost the dressing room’. For all the stick the players get, Smith needs to take a fair amount too for the decisions he’s made. Not once has he tried 4-4-2 with Davis for example so the ball might stay up front longer etc. It doesn’t matter who we’ve played, home or away, against better teams or struggling, he sets us up the same. And the better managers don’t do that.

When we were getting battered in the relegation season at least we were playing Man Utd, Liverpool etc. Dean Smith has overseen us getting battered by Wigan, Hull for the first half at home, Swansea in the cup, Sheffield Utd at home for 82 mins. They were new low level showings and that’s in amongst the other dross that’s been served up in the other 9 or so games since the Albion

Yes some players need to go, or they will be out of contract in the summer, but the first thing I would do is change the manager

You would change the manager after less than 4 months?

When Smith has his own players, losing 2 (only Grealish has changed anything) will not matter.

Losing Grealish is a massive loss to any Championship side.  It is noteworthy that last season, the team's performances only picked up once Grealish returned from injury.  It is not an exclusive problem to just Smith, Bruce was exactly the same.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: colin69 on February 14, 2019, 11:02:47 AM
Quote from: brian green on February 14, 2019, 08:33:55 AM
Agree with john e and Mr U.  Where we are now is becoming a Groundhog Eric Black Day.  Now is the time to start to prepare for August.  The starting team for the first game of next season must have NO clapped out old journeymen players running down their careers on big wages, or prima donnas who think they are too good for us or players being shoehorned into positions for which they are not suited or players in the team because they cost a lot of money or players who play to the crowd and have songs sung about them or players carrying injuries or players who claim to be carrying injuries or players with dysfunctional character defects of any kind.  Get a squad of young, keen  fit, healthy, sober, sane, athletic, ambitious players who can play as a team and get it together for the START of the season  not Christmas, not Easter not the season after next.

Yes,yes,yes......100%
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 14, 2019, 11:23:36 AM
Bunn

Richards
Elmo
Hutton
Elphick
Taylor

Landsbury
BB
Hourihane
Adomah
Whelan
Jedinak

Hogan
Kodjia


All players that I would like gone in the summer. How much money spent in fees and wages in the past 3 years (Hutton and Richards fees or sign up cost apart). How much have they contributed this season. How many would you actually want anywhere near your squad?

This is the problem. Old, slow, past their usefulness, generally poor and on monumental wages.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VinnieChase84 on February 14, 2019, 11:25:09 AM
Quote from: Ads on February 14, 2019, 11:23:36 AM
Bunn

Richards
Elmo
Hutton
Elphick
Taylor

Landsbury
BB
Hourihane
Adomah
Whelan
Jedinak

Hogan
Kodjia


All players that I would like gone in the summer. How much money spent in fees and wages in the past 3 years (Hutton and Richards fees or sign up cost apart). How much have they contributed this season. How many would you actually want anywhere near your squad?

This is the problem. Old, slow, past their usefulness, generally poor and on monumental wages.

All of those will leave
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on February 14, 2019, 11:35:57 AM
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on February 14, 2019, 11:25:09 AM
All of those will leave

I'd like all of those gone too but I just can't see 14 players leaving and 14 new ones coming in.  That's an astronomical amount of work to do.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on February 14, 2019, 11:38:54 AM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on February 14, 2019, 11:35:57 AM
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on February 14, 2019, 11:25:09 AM
All of those will leave

I'd like all of those gone too but I just can't see 14 players leaving and 14 new ones coming in.  That's an astronomical amount of work to do.

Until it's done, we won't improve.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clark W Griswold on February 14, 2019, 11:40:30 AM
I'd agree on most but I'm definitely unsure regarding Richards, I think he's still got a big part to play.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pooligan on February 14, 2019, 11:45:21 AM
After Smith coming out with "At least we are always guaranteed to score" remark we have failed to score at the mighty Wigan,Reading and Brentford .So much for attacking football .If we continue playing like we have since December i am more worried about those below us rather than above
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on February 14, 2019, 11:56:30 AM
We do have a better left back in the U23s, but he's on loan at Port Vale.

Hause isn't a great left back but he at least looked capable of defending that side of the pitch, he was up against their best player (in my opinion) and did a decent job of stopping Watkins from creating anything. Hutton was a much bigger problem as he kept leaving far too much space for Benrahma.

In midfield we're just too slow and don't show for the ball enough, Whelan finds a spot and stands it, Hourihane finds an opponent and stands behind them so our players look up and have McGinn or Hoof as their options and the former often has a couple of players with him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ketzster on February 14, 2019, 11:57:04 AM
Quote from: Brassneck on February 14, 2019, 10:54:34 AM
Quote from: Ketzster on February 14, 2019, 10:35:28 AM
What happens if you give Smith the beginning of next season, and he loses say two players to injury? We know what happens now if that happens and you can’t afford for it to happen again. Smith has shown he is totally incapable of managing it. Surely if any other manager had been in the position where the team was playing like we have, certainly since Preston away, and certainly since the absolute disgrace at Wigan, they’d have changed the formation and tried something different? That’s why I don’t think Dean Smith is up to the job. He never uses substitutions to change formation, like the appalling triple substitution at Wigan, and it makes me think he is too inflexible to be a success. He literally has one way of playing and if it doesn’t work you’ve had it. If you were a player and you know it’s not working, you’d probably be thinking why does he keep persisting with this. For this reason  it wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest if he’s ‘lost the dressing room’. For all the stick the players get, Smith needs to take a fair amount too for the decisions he’s made. Not once has he tried 4-4-2 with Davis for example so the ball might stay up front longer etc. It doesn’t matter who we’ve played, home or away, against better teams or struggling, he sets us up the same. And the better managers don’t do that.

When we were getting battered in the relegation season at least we were playing Man Utd, Liverpool etc. Dean Smith has overseen us getting battered by Wigan, Hull for the first half at home, Swansea in the cup, Sheffield Utd at home for 82 mins. They were new low level showings and that’s in amongst the other dross that’s been served up in the other 9 or so games since the Albion

Yes some players need to go, or they will be out of contract in the summer, but the first thing I would do is change the manager

You would change the manager after less than 4 months?

When Smith has his own players, losing 2 (only Grealish has changed anything) will not matter.

Losing Grealish is a massive loss to any Championship side.  It is noteworthy that last season, the team's performances only picked up once Grealish returned from injury.  It is not an exclusive problem to just Smith, Bruce was exactly the same.

Yes I would. He has got to show something and for two and a half months, generally against poor opposition, he’s shown that he doesn’t have it. You can’t just say it will be better when he’s got his own players. Good managers adapt, and he isn’t. And like I say, what if he gets his own players in the summer and two of them get injured? He’s shown he can’t cope with that happening. Yes players get injured but performances shouldn’t drop to the levels they did at Wigan for example. What’s the point of writing off another season by giving him until October? Villa always do that, we are reactive rather than proactive and it’s always too late. It’s only worth giving a manager time if you’ve got the right person, and in my opinion DS isn’t the right person.

And the transfer window was appalling. Kalinic is worse than Nyland, Hause is appalling. He played centre back at Wigan for half an hour and it was the same as last night so it makes no difference whether he’s centre back or left back, and Tom Carroll at Reading wasn’t much better. So in reality we signed one player in January. Judging by the first three mentioned I wouldn’t want to see Smith build a side of his own players.

And no I wasn’t a massive Bruce fan. I wanted him gone after Barnsley at home in early 2017
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: garyshawsknee on February 14, 2019, 11:58:25 AM
Going back to a great point Brassneck made, it does seem very similar to when Sir Brian took over from BFR. After an initial good start the team started to struggle and hit a wall as he was left with an aging squad who didn't fit in with the system he wanted to play, after a massive clear out in the summer, the squad was re-born and was unrecognisable from the previous regime.  This needs to happen in the summer and surely will, DS can only then be judged once his own signings have settled in. Now our season is over, its a shame we let some of the youth go out as they could have got some minutes in the meaningless fixtures that remain. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clark W Griswold on February 14, 2019, 12:09:45 PM
Quote from: garyshawsknee on February 14, 2019, 11:58:25 AM
Going back to a great point Brassneck made, it does seem very similar to when Sir Brian took over from BFR. After an initial good start the team started to struggle and hit a wall as he was left with an aging squad who didn't fit in with the system he wanted to play, after a massive clear out in the summer, the squad was re-born and was unrecognisable from the previous regime.  This needs to happen in the summer and surely will, DS can only then be judged once his own signings have settled in. Now our season is over, its a shame we let some of the youth go out as they could have got some minutes in the meaningless fixtures that remain.

Ok, and maybe Grealish will be the returning Yorke but who's going to be the Southgate, Savo and Draper?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: garyshawsknee on February 14, 2019, 12:13:15 PM
Quote from: Clark W Griswold on February 14, 2019, 12:09:45 PM
Quote from: garyshawsknee on February 14, 2019, 11:58:25 AM
Going back to a great point Brassneck made, it does seem very similar to when Sir Brian took over from BFR. After an initial good start the team started to struggle and hit a wall as he was left with an aging squad who didn't fit in with the system he wanted to play, after a massive clear out in the summer, the squad was re-born and was unrecognisable from the previous regime.  This needs to happen in the summer and surely will, DS can only then be judged once his own signings have settled in. Now our season is over, its a shame we let some of the youth go out as they could have got some minutes in the meaningless fixtures that remain.

Ok, and maybe Grealish will be the returning Yorke but who's going to be the Southgate, Savo and Draper?

Not sure, Mings could be Southgate, there must be a Draper out there in the lower leagues and a Savo abroad. I guess our DoF is on the case, bloody hope he is.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clark W Griswold on February 14, 2019, 12:20:27 PM
Yeah I was just reminiscing with that. You do know that we wouldn't have Man Utd to beat 3-1 on the opening day though, I think they have enough points in the bag this season.

Seriously though, you would hope that they are all working damn hard to find equivalent type signings for next season that can hit the ground running. Other clubs seem to be able to do it but our success rate in the transfer market post O Neill is pretty shocking really, hence the position we find ourselves in.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: garyshawsknee on February 14, 2019, 12:22:42 PM
You're right Clark, our recent success rate in the transfer market must be at a low not seen since the mid 80s !!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on February 14, 2019, 12:24:16 PM
Quote from: Ketzster on February 14, 2019, 11:57:04 AM
Quote from: Brassneck on February 14, 2019, 10:54:34 AM
Quote from: Ketzster on February 14, 2019, 10:35:28 AM
What happens if you give Smith the beginning of next season, and he loses say two players to injury? We know what happens now if that happens and you can’t afford for it to happen again. Smith has shown he is totally incapable of managing it. Surely if any other manager had been in the position where the team was playing like we have, certainly since Preston away, and certainly since the absolute disgrace at Wigan, they’d have changed the formation and tried something different? That’s why I don’t think Dean Smith is up to the job. He never uses substitutions to change formation, like the appalling triple substitution at Wigan, and it makes me think he is too inflexible to be a success. He literally has one way of playing and if it doesn’t work you’ve had it. If you were a player and you know it’s not working, you’d probably be thinking why does he keep persisting with this. For this reason  it wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest if he’s ‘lost the dressing room’. For all the stick the players get, Smith needs to take a fair amount too for the decisions he’s made. Not once has he tried 4-4-2 with Davis for example so the ball might stay up front longer etc. It doesn’t matter who we’ve played, home or away, against better teams or struggling, he sets us up the same. And the better managers don’t do that.

When we were getting battered in the relegation season at least we were playing Man Utd, Liverpool etc. Dean Smith has overseen us getting battered by Wigan, Hull for the first half at home, Swansea in the cup, Sheffield Utd at home for 82 mins. They were new low level showings and that’s in amongst the other dross that’s been served up in the other 9 or so games since the Albion

Yes some players need to go, or they will be out of contract in the summer, but the first thing I would do is change the manager

You would change the manager after less than 4 months?

When Smith has his own players, losing 2 (only Grealish has changed anything) will not matter.

Losing Grealish is a massive loss to any Championship side.  It is noteworthy that last season, the team's performances only picked up once Grealish returned from injury.  It is not an exclusive problem to just Smith, Bruce was exactly the same.

Yes I would. He has got to show something and for two and a half months, generally against poor opposition, he’s shown that he doesn’t have it. You can’t just say it will be better when he’s got his own players. Good managers adapt, and he isn’t. And like I say, what if he gets his own players in the summer and two of them get injured? He’s shown he can’t cope with that happening. Yes players get injured but performances shouldn’t drop to the levels they did at Wigan for example. What’s the point of writing off another season by giving him until October? Villa always do that, we are reactive rather than proactive and it’s always too late. It’s only worth giving a manager time if you’ve got the right person, and in my opinion DS isn’t the right person.

And the transfer window was appalling. Kalinic is worse than Nyland, Hause is appalling. He played centre back at Wigan for half an hour and it was the same as last night so it makes no difference whether he’s centre back or left back, and Tom Carroll at Reading wasn’t much better. So in reality we signed one player in January. Judging by the first three mentioned I wouldn’t want to see Smith build a side of his own players.

And no I wasn’t a massive Bruce fan. I wanted him gone after Barnsley at home in early 2017

Sorry, the bold bit is awful logic. The current squad has about 4-5 players who can make us work as a Smith team. Losing 2 of them is big blow. If he signs players, works with others in training and gets us to the point where we have 15 players he's happy with (which is plausible over the summer) then losing 2 of them is much less of a blow to the overall team so the impact won't be so profound.


A month or 2 back I suggested that the job that Smith inherited was very similar to the one Bruce did, but with fewer defenders and slightly better attackers I stand by that. If Bruce was afforded a 2nd season then Smith deserves the same.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mike on February 14, 2019, 12:25:31 PM
I worry this is all getting a bit Lambert.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on February 14, 2019, 12:27:39 PM
Quote from: garyshawsknee on February 14, 2019, 12:22:42 PM
You're right Clark, our recent success rate in the transfer market must be at a low not seen since the mid 80s !!

A big part of this is that we've spent a few years trying to sign bene there done that players who are in the latter stages of their career. The issue with that is that, in most cases, you'll get performances for a while before age catches up and they start to drop off. If you've got a whole host of guys in their 30s that means they all start to drop off together.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tony scott on February 14, 2019, 12:30:24 PM
I’m sure Dean thinks ,once he gets a pre season in ,with his type of players ,improvement will be a given.  I think that’s probably true, but his previous teams haven’t been a success result wise, though they played good football, is Dean with us just to get a system in place where we play attractive football and will we need another Coach who will be more results driven to get out of the Championship.  I saw my first game in 1959 and Dean Smith is the only manager who was a fan of the club prior to his appointment, I should imagine this brings extra pressure, I don’t think we can right a season off and hope it comes good the following season, we have to take some positives into next season. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Des Little on February 14, 2019, 12:34:12 PM
What worries me most is that the brand of football we are playing is so bloody awful to watch.  We can't even seem to get the basics right, and that all comes from the Manager and coaches.  Everyone who watches us can see our flaws, yet nothing improves?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 14, 2019, 12:39:31 PM
Sorry the idea that Dean can only be judged in the summer is bonkers. I get that he doesn’t have the players to support his preferred style of play, but that doesn’t mean that the next few months can just be written off. If this form continues he won’t be here in the summer. He needs to show he can adapt to the situation.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VinnieChase84 on February 14, 2019, 12:39:49 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on February 14, 2019, 11:35:57 AM
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on February 14, 2019, 11:25:09 AM
All of those will leave

I'd like all of those gone too but I just can't see 14 players leaving and 14 new ones coming in.  That's an astronomical amount of work to do.

Think you will be surprised. Half that list have hardly been involved this season anyway. I’d say RHM, Davis, JDH, OHare, Revan, Ramsey, Clark will all take a place in the first team squad. That will replace the ‘squad’ levers and we will recruit for starting 11 spots
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: andyh on February 14, 2019, 12:40:37 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on February 14, 2019, 11:35:57 AM
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on February 14, 2019, 11:25:09 AM
All of those will leave

I'd like all of those gone too but I just can't see 14 players leaving and 14 new ones coming in.  That's an astronomical amount of work to do.
Correct. That is 2 or 3 transfer windows worth.
Then there is the issue of being allowed to spend money on the right type and standard of player that we need.
We might want young and energetic, but we will be limited in what we can spend.
And there is the massive issue on how we replace a 20 plus goal scorer.

Let’s take Brentford as an example. It has taken a few years to get them playing like they do and giving us a football lesson.
BUT....they ain’t in the promotion hunt.
I hope we offload the majority of the dross we have now, but it isn’t a case of replace and go up.
If we can’t spend money on quality youngsters then I think we could be down here for a while yet.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ktvillan on February 14, 2019, 01:07:25 PM
A good coach should be able to get more out of this bunch of players than Smith has been getting recently.  They showed they could play in the spell before Christmas.  They didn't all suddenly become better players during that period and they haven't all suddenly become shit since the Albion game.   Smith was getting the best out of them for a while, now he isn't.  Ok he's lost perhaps his two key players for his "system" but he should still be able to coach and organise the others to control, pass and move and press.  The likes of Monk, Fark, Wilder, Johnson and even Bielsa have managed to get teams playing well and/or getting results using largely what they were lumbered with, which in many cases wasn't a great deal.  Now Smith's successor is starting to do it, but not Smith.  Maybe he's been allowed to write this season off but that would be a waste while there is still a chance of the play-offs.

It's like there's an ability removal portal at the gates of Villa Park and Bodymoor Heath that affects almost everyone from owners to coaches to players to scouts.   
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on February 14, 2019, 01:11:11 PM
Except our good spell was when we had our better players fit. Grealish, Tuanzebe and to a lesser extent Chester.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rigadon on February 14, 2019, 01:14:46 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 14, 2019, 01:11:11 PM
Except our good spell was when we had our better players fit. Grealish, Tuanzebe and to a lesser extent Chester.

Smith hasn't become a bad manager 'overnight' and I hope he turns it around.  I think getting (a fully fit) Jack on the park is pretty much our only hope of putting anything like the kind of run we now need to make the playoffs.  He make the other players look better.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on February 14, 2019, 01:15:59 PM
Quote from: mike on February 14, 2019, 12:25:31 PM
I worry this is all getting a bit Lambert.

Come on, Lambert had summer pre-season and summer transfer windows.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on February 14, 2019, 01:16:27 PM
Quote from: brian green on February 14, 2019, 08:33:55 AM
Agree with john e and Mr U.  Where we are now is becoming a Groundhog Eric Black Day.  Now is the time to start to prepare for August.  The starting team for the first game of next season must have NO clapped out old journeymen players running down their careers on big wages, or prima donnas who think they are too good for us or players being shoehorned into positions for which they are not suited or players in the team because they cost a lot of money or players who play to the crowd and have songs sung about them or players carrying injuries or players who claim to be carrying injuries or players with dysfunctional character defects of any kind.  Get a squad of young, keen  fit, healthy, sober, sane, athletic, ambitious players who can play as a team and get it together for the START of the season  not Christmas, not Easter not the season after next.

So true!
You won my heart !
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on February 14, 2019, 01:19:33 PM
Quote from: mike on February 14, 2019, 12:25:31 PM
I worry this is all getting a bit Lambert.

In short I taking that means uninspiring fair.
A dullard.

I like to think Smith has some capabilities in building long term but can see the worry you have as yesterday was an unfortunate example .

However there also was touch of Bruce (despite result) where villa are outplayed on the ball and get the result (taking one or two of the big chances) by nicking a goal
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AlexAlexCropley on February 14, 2019, 01:23:11 PM
His after match comments were obviously tongue in cheek. If not he's dreaming.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 14, 2019, 01:27:15 PM
I think the prospect of sacking a manager after 10 weeks of poor form is more of the same short sighted stupidity we've suffered for years in our approach to managers and squad building.

He's not performing at the moment, but has demonstrated a capability to have us perform perhaps better than we have in years and years.

I want to see how we recruit and how we rebuild the midfield.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 14, 2019, 01:44:15 PM
There's no guarantee that Smith is the answer. I think I've seen enough to make me hope and believe things can improve.

But, and the poster who wants him sacked now wanted him sacked a month or two back, would have seen Farke sacked long ago. Wilder sacked last season for their run of form. Johnson sacked numerous times over at Bristol. Wagnar sacked at Huddersfield for not improving them in year 1. Monk sacked at the Blues for their awful start.

At some point we've got to back a plan. It doesn't mean you accept the form or performances now, but you understand the context.

Cultural changes take time. China have been engaged in a cultural revolution since the 70s, building high rises to draw peasents out of the countryside, to live in cities and place a demand for an increase to the service economy for the new urban workers. Britain took 100 years in the 19th century to do the same. The leap from Bruce to modernity is on a similar scale.

A pre-season helps, but the more you look around this league the overwhelming difference is legs, running, ticker, whatever you want to call it. We're relying on full backs, central midfielders and wide men who have none.

The player threads are full of it and rightly so. We have the right idea, whether we have the right man time will tell.

I think it's foolish to accept the run, but doubly so to not afford this manager the opportunity of his peers. I think it will work out.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on February 14, 2019, 01:49:54 PM
Good post ADS.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TonyD on February 14, 2019, 01:52:07 PM
We have such a shit heap squad of players that any manager would struggle to put together any resemblance of a defence or midfield.   
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on February 14, 2019, 01:59:35 PM
Eloquently put, Ads. He might still prove to not be The One, but I've seen enough to think there's a chance he might be.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: darren woolley on February 14, 2019, 02:01:16 PM
Quote from: Ads on February 14, 2019, 01:44:15 PM
There's no guarantee that Smith is the answer. I think I've seen enough to make me hope and believe things can improve.

But, and the poster who wants him sacked now wanted him sacked a month or two back, would have seen Farke sacked long ago. Wilder sacked last season for their run of form. Johnson sacked numerous times over at Bristol. Wagnar sacked at Huddersfield for not improving them in year 1. Monk sacked at the Blues for their awful start.

At some point we've got to back a plan. It doesn't mean you accept the form or performances now, but you understand the context.

Cultural changes take time. China have been engaged in a cultural revolution since the 70s, building high rises to draw peasents out of the countryside, to live in cities and place a demand for an increase to the service economy for the new urban workers. Britain took 100 years in the 19th century to do the same. The leap from Bruce to modernity is on a similar scale.

A pre-season helps, but the more you look around this league the overwhelming difference is legs, running, ticker, whatever you want to call it. We're relying on full backs, central midfielders and wide men who have none.

The player threads are full of it and rightly so. We have the right idea, whether we have the right man time will tell.

I think it's foolish to accept the run, but doubly so to not afford this manager the opportunity of his peers. I think it will work out.


Excellent post Ads.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tomd2103 on February 14, 2019, 02:10:57 PM
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on February 14, 2019, 01:59:35 PM
Eloquently put, Ads. He might still prove to not be The One, but I've seen enough to think there's a chance he might be.

Needs the summer and a good chunk of next season to build and bed in a practically new squad.  I just worry a bit about the impact the next couple of months could have really.   
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ASHTONVILLA on February 14, 2019, 02:23:00 PM
Quote from: Ads on February 14, 2019, 01:27:15 PM
I think the prospect of sacking a manager after 10 weeks of poor form is more of the same short sighted stupidity we've suffered for years in our approach to managers and squad building.

He's not performing at the moment, but has demonstrated a capability to have us perform perhaps better than we have in years and years.

I want to see how we recruit and how we rebuild the midfield.

I don't think the club have been shortsighted and got rid too quickly though, indeed quite the reverse at times. We kept McCleish,  Lambert and Bruce on for too long. If we had potted Bruce at the end of last season instead of letting him fuck the start of this one up and waste money in the transfer market then whoever had replaced him would have had a better chance. Better still he should have gone at the end of his first season when he failed to do what he was appointed for and it was clear he was not the man to get us promoted. The only manager afforded no patience in the last 20 years is RDM but having seen how we played at Preston before he got potted I think he needed to go.

As for having demonstrated a capability to have us perform at a better level, so did Sherwood. Is he any good? No idea yet, but he has no track record of achieving anything of note elsewhere. He built a mid table team at Brentford, and is on course to do likewise here. Villa are not Brentford, I hope he is the right man but jury is very much out at the moment.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AVH87 on February 14, 2019, 02:23:31 PM
I really want to see who Smith signs in the Summer, I expect youthful, pacy, value bargains from the Continent.

The problem is that's a long time away and we have nearly a third of the season and he is clearly unsuited to the type of player and type of personality we have in our squad currently.

We also have key injuries to contend with, let's get a fully fit Chester back in for Elphick, Grealish back at no.10 and Lansbury or Carroll will surely prove better midfield options than Hourihane/Jedinak etc.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: XXVilla on February 14, 2019, 02:35:50 PM
I don’t want him sacked but he needs to get more out of the players he’s currently got. We can’t keep saying that it’s not his team or players. If he has aspirations to be a successful manager then this excuse is just not good enough.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on February 14, 2019, 02:52:07 PM
Quote from: Ads on February 14, 2019, 01:27:15 PM
I think the prospect of sacking a manager after 10 weeks of poor form is more of the same short sighted stupidity we've suffered for years in our approach to managers and squad building.

He's not performing at the moment, but has demonstrated a capability to have us perform perhaps better than we have in years and years.

I want to see how we recruit and how we rebuild the midfield.

If anything last night would have reaffirmed to the board Smith is the right person. They got a first hand look at what it could look like in a year or two with the right investment and time.

Dean Smith looks a very frustrated man right now and if he was offered tomorrow being the end of the season he'd bite your hand off. He look like he's come to the realization that he can't do more with this group. It might improve when Jack and AT return but by then the playoff chase will likely be over. He has a huge task ahead of him and he needs a fresh start in order to do it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mike on February 14, 2019, 02:56:20 PM
How many on here think Monk is better than Smith? How many on here think Birmingham have a better squad than us? I don’t think he is getting enough out of this squad. No reason to sack him but it’s a worry.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 14, 2019, 02:58:45 PM
Quote from: mike on February 14, 2019, 02:56:20 PM
How many on here think Monk is better than Smith? How many on here think Birmingham have a better squad than us? I don’t think he is getting enough out of this squad. No reason to sack him but it’s a worry.

Monk is certainly doing a better job as things stand, but long term I'd still rather have Smith.  Let's just get this sorry arse of a season out of the way, rebuild in the summer and get off to a flyer next year.  No more excuses after this season though.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on February 14, 2019, 03:00:21 PM
Where Monk is doing a good job is that he is making good use of what he has and has found a style to suit the players at his disposal. Smith is trying to get the players to play how he wants and it is getting worse because the players can't do it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nev on February 14, 2019, 03:07:45 PM
Smith is driving me mad and looks lost at the moment but I don't believe we should make any changes. It's hard to bear at the moment but let's fast forward a month or so and things could look different with returning personel, a bit of luck and the warm spring sunshine
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on February 14, 2019, 03:08:13 PM
so  in the interim why not try something else that might be better suited to the players you are stuck with for now?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ktvillan on February 14, 2019, 03:08:40 PM
My point is that Grealish and Tuanzebe being missing should not affect the ability of other players to put in effort, control the football, pass and move etc.  Yet they aren't doing much of any of that.  Surely the Coach has to take some of the responsibility for that?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chris Smith on February 14, 2019, 03:10:24 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on February 14, 2019, 03:00:21 PM
Where Monk is doing a good job is that he is making good use of what he has and has found a style to suit the players at his disposal. Smith is trying to get the players to play how he wants and it is getting worse because the players can't do it.

Monk does not need to worry about building for the future because the club are prevented from doing so. Smith has joined at a time when new owners are looking at the bigger picture and creating something sustainable with an eye on bigger things. This will shape how they operate in the short term.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Allan C on February 14, 2019, 03:16:25 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 14, 2019, 10:46:35 AM
From the post-match thread.

Quote from: Chris Smith on February 14, 2019, 08:37:29 AM
The team assembled by Dean Smith played the one he now manages off the park. It’s hardly stretching credulity to expect that when he has had time to implement his plans at Villa we will see similar performances.

Precisely.

He did almost say as much in the post-match interview but there's not much he can say to appease the fans is there?

I'm not sure why he should change the system to suit the players.

We HAVE to remember that we need to build for the future, not the present. He needs time to embed this system that he wants to play and whilst we have players who can't or won't, it's going to be ugly.

The players need practise to get better, and lets' face it for many of them it's yet another new style after their former clubs and/or our former managers. It takes time. I think the sooner we accept that this season is not one for achieving promotion the better, though I'm pissed off with that and am struggling to accept it.

Our owners and CEO have said promotion this season isn't essential, and I think that's because they understand it takes time. I hope they hold their nerve.

With peopel questioning Smith's ability and approach so soon into his tenure it seems that fans will start getting on his back soon and if that happens you can start preparing for Allardyce or similar and you can think about us getting new owners too.

We have to accept that our club has been rotten for years, trying to act all billy big bollocks buying all the talent and payign over the odds for it rather than developing a system, style and sustainable model. For examples of club's doing it see Brighton, Bournemouth, Huddersfield, Leicester, Wolves, Norwich, Watford and Burnley.

The advantage we have is that when we do it, and start improving, we have the advantage of our heritage, tradition and size to attract a better calibre of player to suit our system. See Man City for an example of buying the best to suit their system.

I dont' want Smith to abandon his principles and approach just because it's not working in the here and now. He's done it before, see Brentford as the key example. Players developed in a system, players brought in to replace them. When we lose Grealish, under a system we'd be able to replace him without huge disruption. Right now, because we're a shambles losing him will be dreadful (has been due to injury).
This is absolutely 100% spot on. This and the post match thread leave me in tears sometimes. In one sentence people are (rightly) scathing of the majority of the squad and the next appearing to blame Smith for the squad being rubbish. This is a bang average squad at the very best with the exception of Grealish McGinn Abraham Tuanzebe and now Mings. The rest will never in a million years be coached to play the way Smith is demanding because they can’t  its that simple. And yes, Smith does get a free pass from me this season because he needs time to bring his own players in and bed in his footballing philosophy to a club that hasn’t had such a thing for years. I’ve always estimated 3 windows at least. And if proof is required just look at last night. A Smith built and coached team played us off the park. I believe given the time he’ll do that here
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on February 14, 2019, 03:19:42 PM
Quote from: Chris Smith on February 14, 2019, 03:10:24 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on February 14, 2019, 03:00:21 PM
Where Monk is doing a good job is that he is making good use of what he has and has found a style to suit the players at his disposal. Smith is trying to get the players to play how he wants and it is getting worse because the players can't do it.

Monk does not need to worry about building for the future because the club are prevented from doing so. Smith has joined at a time when new owners are looking at the bigger picture and creating something sustainable with an eye on bigger things. This will shape how they operate in the short term.

I agree. We have all said we should not keep switching systems and philosophies etc. I imagine that throughout the club he is trying in establish a way of playing, a culture, certain principles that are consistent across all of the age groups. It's not going to happen quickly and the in between stage, as this is, looks ugly.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ASHTONVILLA on February 14, 2019, 03:24:06 PM
Quote from: Nev on February 14, 2019, 03:07:45 PM
Smith is driving me mad and looks lost at the moment but I don't believe we should make any changes. It's hard to bear at the moment but let's fast forward a month or so and things could look different with returning personel, a bit of luck and the warm spring sunshine

We were saying this before christmas, looking at improving when he had a transfer window. I thought it would get better but it is showing no sign whatsoever of it. The business in the window was not good and has not addressed any of the problems. We still have a dysfunctional midfield. £6m on a keeper no better than the several we have. We still have nothing at left back (despite buying two players there). We are still playing people out of position in defence.

He needs to show he can do better this season, before being given carte blanche for next season. If we carry on like this until the end of the season I am not convinced he should get the chance. He needs to show he can do better. And as for getting us to the level of Brentford - they are not that good we should be aspiring to being like them! He needs to show us that with better resource he can build a team far better than Brentford who look a million miles from a team that could be promoted.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Allan C on February 14, 2019, 03:27:35 PM
Quote from: XXVilla on February 14, 2019, 02:35:50 PM
I don’t want him sacked but he needs to get more out of the players he’s currently got. We can’t keep saying that it’s not his team or players. If he has aspirations to be a successful manager then this excuse is just not good enough.
We can keep saying it until it is his team and his players. How would you get more out of Whelan for instance?? Or Hutton??
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Axl Rose on February 14, 2019, 03:29:53 PM
Quote from: Allan C on February 14, 2019, 03:27:35 PM
Quote from: XXVilla on February 14, 2019, 02:35:50 PM
I don’t want him sacked but he needs to get more out of the players he’s currently got. We can’t keep saying that it’s not his team or players. If he has aspirations to be a successful manager then this excuse is just not good enough.
We can keep saying it until it is his team and his players. How would you get more out of Whelan for instance?? Or Hutton??

I would fire the pair of them into the sun.

On a serious note, God only knows.

I basically just wouldn't play either of them. Ever. Awful awful awful players.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ASHTONVILLA on February 14, 2019, 03:33:04 PM
Quote from: Allan C on February 14, 2019, 03:16:25 PM
This is a bang average squad at the very best with the exception of Grealish McGinn Abraham Tuanzebe and now Mings. The rest will never in a million years be coached to play the way Smith is demanding because they can’t  its that simple.

The problem with this is that yes we have a bang average players - and he is getting them playing below average. We see other average squads getting better results week after week. An we have a few players that lift us above average in any event.

For all its deficiencies, we have a better set of players than many teams that are doing better than us. Smith needs to set us up to get results with what we have. That is his job. He can move to a system that works with different players when he has them.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on February 14, 2019, 03:37:52 PM
Quote from: XXVilla on February 14, 2019, 02:35:50 PM
I don’t want him sacked but he needs to get more out of the players he’s currently got. We can’t keep saying that it’s not his team or players. If he has aspirations to be a successful manager then this excuse is just not good enough.

We can keep saying that. Because it's true.

And people saying to change the system to suit the players are barking up the wrong tree. Why play Steve Bruce football again? It doesn't bloody work.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: XXVilla on February 14, 2019, 03:49:39 PM
Quote from: Allan C on February 14, 2019, 03:27:35 PM
Quote from: XXVilla on February 14, 2019, 02:35:50 PM
I don’t want him sacked but he needs to get more out of the players he’s currently got. We can’t keep saying that it’s not his team or players. If he has aspirations to be a successful manager then this excuse is just not good enough.
We can keep saying it until it is his team and his players. How would you get more out of Whelan for instance?? Or Hutton??

He’s got it from them already though hasn’t he? But he’s not getting it now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: XXVilla on February 14, 2019, 03:50:50 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 14, 2019, 03:37:52 PM
Quote from: XXVilla on February 14, 2019, 02:35:50 PM
I don’t want him sacked but he needs to get more out of the players he’s currently got. We can’t keep saying that it’s not his team or players. If he has aspirations to be a successful manager then this excuse is just not good enough.

We can keep saying that. Because it's true.

And people saying to change the system to suit the players are barking up the wrong tree. Why play Steve Bruce football again? It doesn't bloody work.

Well this doesnt bloody work either
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on February 14, 2019, 03:55:34 PM
Quote from: Chris Smith on February 14, 2019, 03:10:24 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on February 14, 2019, 03:00:21 PM
Where Monk is doing a good job is that he is making good use of what he has and has found a style to suit the players at his disposal. Smith is trying to get the players to play how he wants and it is getting worse because the players can't do it.

Monk does not need to worry about building for the future because the club are prevented from doing so. Smith has joined at a time when new owners are looking at the bigger picture and creating something sustainable with an eye on bigger things. This will shape how they operate in the short term.

Sustainable yes but bigger things ?; Are we sure? For me that remains to be seen
Some of that talk is marketing and business .
It sounds good but let's judge them in a few years on their actions.

Business wise they want to be efficient and effective.

We already had Smith talk of market value of andre green potential.

It's not particularly ambitious from owners and CEO
And why would it be ?

Xia had dreams and ambitions and now the club is going in different directions .
Admittedly it's for reasons to adminstrative and be stable but can already see it's going to be down a route of a smaller scale club where loans and developing youth will be main areas along with bargain buys.

I unfortunately am very sceptical of the villa owners and CEO actual ambition. They who see villa as somewhere to make money on players and look at the business side of things primarily.
The football side has been put in hands of one of own and JT for appeasement.

Any other coach (or any ones without any villa connection) would be criticized by a lot more after the recent run


These owners aren't stupid .
They picked villa when they were vulnerable.
I think the phrase is over a barrell

It's been billed as some sort of development plan .
That's just a spin.

All clubs have development.
Villa have been choosing not to do that because players weren't up to grade.

Now seemingly come season end won't have a choice.

Likes of Tammy Abraham , JT , Snodgrass won't be coming to villa if we carry on like this.
There is a danger it's not just this season we fall by the way side.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on February 14, 2019, 03:59:08 PM
just put any of our players under pressure and they will lose the ball more often than not

teams know this, and that's what they do, press
last night was embarrassing watching them try and control and pass, absolute zero composure on the ball, zero

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nelson Lodge on February 14, 2019, 04:00:15 PM
I have decided to let go of thoughts of the play-offs and promotion being possible this season. I am certainly not going to get emotional, angry and despondent over further dismal displays and defeats. We have to rebuild from scratch, starting from square one, and try to be in position to go for the "Big Push" next season. At the end of this season we need to get rid of as many of the inadequates in the squad as possible. That includes those liabilities who spend more time in the treatment rooms than they do on the pitch.

In truth this is what should have been done immediately after relegation in 2016 instead of chucking bundles of cash on 'has beens' in futile attempts to shortcut a quick return to the Prem. We have lost 3 years due to a fatally flawed strategy, stupid tactical decisions and lack of foresight costing the club untold millions of £s. If by any outside chance promotion was achieved by a fluke it would be disastrous with the way the club is at present. It would be mission impossible in terns of time and money to recruit a new squad capable of survival.

Whether Smith & his assistants are capable of achieving the rebuilding job required remains to be seen. However, even if he is only able to build sound foundations (as those of a certain vintage will remember Vic Crowe doing) then that at least will be something for his successor to inherit and take forward.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on February 14, 2019, 04:01:49 PM
Quote from: Ads on February 14, 2019, 01:44:15 PM
There's no guarantee that Smith is the answer. I think I've seen enough to make me hope and believe things can improve.

But, and the poster who wants him sacked now wanted him sacked a month or two back, would have seen Farke sacked long ago. Wilder sacked last season for their run of form. Johnson sacked numerous times over at Bristol. Wagnar sacked at Huddersfield for not improving them in year 1. Monk sacked at the Blues for their awful start.

At some point we've got to back a plan. It doesn't mean you accept the form or performances now, but you understand the context.

Cultural changes take time. China have been engaged in a cultural revolution since the 70s, building high rises to draw peasents out of the countryside, to live in cities and place a demand for an increase to the service economy for the new urban workers. Britain took 100 years in the 19th century to do the same. The leap from Bruce to modernity is on a similar scale.

A pre-season helps, but the more you look around this league the overwhelming difference is legs, running, ticker, whatever you want to call it. We're relying on full backs, central midfielders and wide men who have none.

The player threads are full of it and rightly so. We have the right idea, whether we have the right man time will tell.

I think it's foolish to accept the run, but doubly so to not afford this manager the opportunity of his peers. I think it will work out.

I agree with most of this.

Bruce was managing us transfer window to transfer window with no real thought of where things were going and it nearly worked but once it didn't we were, politely put, a bit fucked. When he was sacked the club appear to have taken the view that they want someone who's thinking slightly more long term and building a more sustainable squad. The difficulty is moving on the 30+ players and replacing them with 23-24 year olds takes a bit of time because the older players are hard to sell and for the younger players you have to scout them well to be sure they're a good fit.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Des Little on February 14, 2019, 04:01:51 PM
The thought of this clueless mob getting into the play offs is as scary as it is unbelievable.  Part of me doesn't want it to happen.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on February 14, 2019, 04:10:02 PM
I just hope the ' the Brentford team that played us off the park last night is Smiths team and is what we will play like next season'

is not the new 'Bruce has got 4 promotions and will deliver given time'

I'm still believing but fuck me it's hard work
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tomd2103 on February 14, 2019, 04:11:57 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on February 14, 2019, 03:00:21 PM
Where Monk is doing a good job is that he is making good use of what he has and has found a style to suit the players at his disposal. Smith is trying to get the players to play how he wants and it is getting worse because the players can't do it.

Agree with that TV.  Monk looked to implement a passing philosophy at his previous clubs, but probably realised he couldn't do that at Blues.  He's therefore gone for a more direct style and it seems to be getting the best out of the players he has at his disposal. 

My one real criticism Dean Smith is that he hasn't looked to change formation over the past few weeks, even though it has been pretty clear things aren't working. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on February 14, 2019, 04:14:49 PM
This is exactly what I mean from reading post above the ambition is being lost with supporters.

People giving up on play off and promotion hopes should be criticized as much as the players !

Imagine if the villa squad  (and can argue some have, though that's unprofessional) gave up on play offs right now ?!
Madness!!

So what is clearly happening is there a shift of people here who have lost hope on the here and now.
They are settling .
Winners don't just settle.
And sorry to those who do.

Be careful what you wish for because the villa fans will make the club small time if we don't keep optimistic and argue that we need to be up there sooner than later.

I made my point
For those who have decency to read it.

I  have realized that really too many people here are going to be happy we are not getting promoted.

I don't want to be around such negative vibes
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on February 14, 2019, 04:19:00 PM
Quote from: darren woolley on February 14, 2019, 02:01:16 PM
Quote from: Ads on February 14, 2019, 01:44:15 PM
There's no guarantee that Smith is the answer. I think I've seen enough to make me hope and believe things can improve.

But, and the poster who wants him sacked now wanted him sacked a month or two back, would have seen Farke sacked long ago. Wilder sacked last season for their run of form. Johnson sacked numerous times over at Bristol. Wagnar sacked at Huddersfield for not improving them in year 1. Monk sacked at the Blues for their awful start.

At some point we've got to back a plan. It doesn't mean you accept the form or performances now, but you understand the context.

Cultural changes take time. China have been engaged in a cultural revolution since the 70s, building high rises to draw peasents out of the countryside, to live in cities and place a demand for an increase to the service economy for the new urban workers. Britain took 100 years in the 19th century to do the same. The leap from Bruce to modernity is on a similar scale.

A pre-season helps, but the more you look around this league the overwhelming difference is legs, running, ticker, whatever you want to call it. We're relying on full backs, central midfielders and wide men who have none.

The player threads are full of it and rightly so. We have the right idea, whether we have the right man time will tell.

I think it's foolish to accept the run, but doubly so to not afford this manager the opportunity of his peers. I think it will work out.


Excellent post Ads.

Yep, spot on Ads. Great post.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 14, 2019, 04:19:03 PM
Quote from: footyskillz on February 14, 2019, 04:14:49 PM

I going off site for time as have realized that really too many people here are going to be happy we are not getting promoted.

I don't want to be around such negative vibes.

Ta ra a bit then.  Don't let the door hit you on the arse mid flounce.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on February 14, 2019, 04:21:16 PM
Quote from: footyskillz on February 14, 2019, 03:55:34 PM
Quote from: Chris Smith on February 14, 2019, 03:10:24 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on February 14, 2019, 03:00:21 PM
Where Monk is doing a good job is that he is making good use of what he has and has found a style to suit the players at his disposal. Smith is trying to get the players to play how he wants and it is getting worse because the players can't do it.

Monk does not need to worry about building for the future because the club are prevented from doing so. Smith has joined at a time when new owners are looking at the bigger picture and creating something sustainable with an eye on bigger things. This will shape how they operate in the short term.

Sustainable yes but bigger things ?; Are we sure? For me that remains to be seen
Some of that talk is marketing and business .
It sounds good but let's judge them in a few years on their actions.

Business wise they want to be efficient and effective.

We already had Smith talk of market value of andre green potential.

It's not particularly ambitious from owners and CEO
And why would it be ?

Xia had dreams and ambitions and now the club is going in different directions .
Admittedly it's for reasons to adminstrative and be stable but can already see it's going to be down a route of a smaller scale club where loans and developing youth will be main areas along with bargain buys.

I unfortunately am very sceptical of the villa owners and CEO actual ambition. They who see villa as somewhere to make money on players and look at the business side of things primarily.
The football side has been put in hands of one of own and JT for appeasement.

Any other coach (or any ones without any villa connection) would be criticized by a lot more after the recent run


These owners aren't stupid .
They picked villa when they were vulnerable.
I think the phrase is over a barrell

It's been billed as some sort of development plan .
That's just a spin.

All clubs have development.
Villa have been choosing not to do that because players weren't up to grade.

Now seemingly come season end won't have a choice.

Likes of Tammy Abraham , JT , Snodgrass won't be coming to villa if we carry on like this.
There is a danger it's not just this season we fall by the way side.


You post some nonsense at times but this is right up there with the biggest pile of fantasy I've ever seen.

The new owners have done nothing to suggest they here solely to make money, signing a £7m goalkeeper and £5m right back during the Janaury window does not scream 'bargain buys' in this division.

The idea that they picked JT and Smith to appease the fans whilst they use us as a money making tool is frighteningly naive.

Deciding that their talk of a plan for future is just spin is ridiculous and based on almost nothing beyond the fact that we aren't in the promotion places.

We've had years of managing the club week to week with little forward planning and it's opinions like this which encourage that, the club has been in a tailspin for years and has never really 'got' modern football, the board and the manager can't build that structure and expect results in 6 months. If they felt Smith was the right choice for this step in rebuilding the club then I can understand why and I'm happy to see him get a chance to do so unless we're still looking like this come the end of the season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on February 14, 2019, 04:23:03 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on February 14, 2019, 03:19:42 PM
Quote from: Chris Smith on February 14, 2019, 03:10:24 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on February 14, 2019, 03:00:21 PM
Where Monk is doing a good job is that he is making good use of what he has and has found a style to suit the players at his disposal. Smith is trying to get the players to play how he wants and it is getting worse because the players can't do it.

Monk does not need to worry about building for the future because the club are prevented from doing so. Smith has joined at a time when new owners are looking at the bigger picture and creating something sustainable with an eye on bigger things. This will shape how they operate in the short term.

I agree. We have all said we should not keep switching systems and philosophies etc. I imagine that throughout the club he is trying in establish a way of playing, a culture, certain principles that are consistent across all of the age groups. It's not going to happen quickly and the in between stage, as this is, looks ugly.
If we wanted the best out of this squad maybe Smith was not the best appointment and we should appointed Pullis, Fat Sam or the like. I'm sure they would get a tune from these halfwits. However that's not what Smith has been appointed for but actually appointed for us to sustain a style and system for years to come.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: DB on February 14, 2019, 04:33:35 PM
Quote from: Allan C on February 14, 2019, 03:16:25 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 14, 2019, 10:46:35 AM
From the post-match thread.

Quote from: Chris Smith on February 14, 2019, 08:37:29 AM
The team assembled by Dean Smith played the one he now manages off the park. It’s hardly stretching credulity to expect that when he has had time to implement his plans at Villa we will see similar performances.

Precisely.

He did almost say as much in the post-match interview but there's not much he can say to appease the fans is there?

I'm not sure why he should change the system to suit the players.

We HAVE to remember that we need to build for the future, not the present. He needs time to embed this system that he wants to play and whilst we have players who can't or won't, it's going to be ugly.

The players need practise to get better, and lets' face it for many of them it's yet another new style after their former clubs and/or our former managers. It takes time. I think the sooner we accept that this season is not one for achieving promotion the better, though I'm pissed off with that and am struggling to accept it.

Our owners and CEO have said promotion this season isn't essential, and I think that's because they understand it takes time. I hope they hold their nerve.

With peopel questioning Smith's ability and approach so soon into his tenure it seems that fans will start getting on his back soon and if that happens you can start preparing for Allardyce or similar and you can think about us getting new owners too.

We have to accept that our club has been rotten for years, trying to act all billy big bollocks buying all the talent and payign over the odds for it rather than developing a system, style and sustainable model. For examples of club's doing it see Brighton, Bournemouth, Huddersfield, Leicester, Wolves, Norwich, Watford and Burnley.

The advantage we have is that when we do it, and start improving, we have the advantage of our heritage, tradition and size to attract a better calibre of player to suit our system. See Man City for an example of buying the best to suit their system.

I dont' want Smith to abandon his principles and approach just because it's not working in the here and now. He's done it before, see Brentford as the key example. Players developed in a system, players brought in to replace them. When we lose Grealish, under a system we'd be able to replace him without huge disruption. Right now, because we're a shambles losing him will be dreadful (has been due to injury).
This is absolutely 100% spot on. This and the post match thread leave me in tears sometimes. In one sentence people are (rightly) scathing of the majority of the squad and the next appearing to blame Smith for the squad being rubbish. This is a bang average squad at the very best with the exception of Grealish McGinn Abraham Tuanzebe and now Mings. The rest will never in a million years be coached to play the way Smith is demanding because they can’t  its that simple. And yes, Smith does get a free pass from me this season because he needs time to bring his own players in and bed in his footballing philosophy to a club that hasn’t had such a thing for years. I’ve always estimated 3 windows at least. And if proof is required just look at last night. A Smith built and coached team played us off the park. I believe given the time he’ll do that here

Good posts those
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on February 14, 2019, 04:35:41 PM
Dean won't get years to implement any style or discernible pattern of play. In fact, if he carries on like this, he's got until early May.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on February 14, 2019, 04:36:45 PM
Very well said Chris and Drummond.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Allan C on February 14, 2019, 04:37:30 PM
Quote from: ASHTONVILLA on February 14, 2019, 03:33:04 PM
Quote from: Allan C on February 14, 2019, 03:16:25 PM
This is a bang average squad at the very best with the exception of Grealish McGinn Abraham Tuanzebe and now Mings. The rest will never in a million years be coached to play the way Smith is demanding because they can’t  its that simple.

The problem with this is that yes we have a bang average players - and he is getting them playing below average. We see other average squads getting better results week after week. An we have a few players that lift us above average in any event.

For all its deficiencies, we have a better set of players than many teams that are doing better than us. Smith needs to set us up to get results with what we have. That is his job. He can move to a system that works with different players when he has them.
Sorry but I disagree with that. This squad minus Grealish and Tuanzebe are at the limit they should be, mid table. With those two we should be a little higher. The squads above us are at the very least equal when we have G&T and some are better. Which of our squad (minus G&T) would fit in at say Leeds??
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on February 14, 2019, 04:42:02 PM
that's the Leeds squad broadly similar to last season's that finished in mid table obscurity?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brassneck on February 14, 2019, 04:50:19 PM
Quote from: mr underhill on February 14, 2019, 04:35:41 PM
Dean won't get years to implement any style or discernible pattern of play. In fact, if he carries on like this, he's got until early May.

Nobody expects him to have years.

Realistically, we need to see an improvement by this time next year.  We need to see a direction and a purpose.  We did not see that with our previous manager and that is why he is our previous manager.  If Smith delivers the same, he can expect the same fate.

We have stagnated as a mid to upper Championship side.  Our players are all Championship players with the exception of a very select few.  People need to stop thinking that we have a divine right to promotion just because we are Aston Villa.  We spent the most ever in Championship history 2 years ago because we are Aston Villa and we failed miserably.  We attracted the best loan signings last season because we are Aston Villa and again failed miserably.  We tried the "promotion expert" and failed miserably.

There is no magic recipe and no master tactician waiting out there who is going to come in and blow the league apart.

The owners themselves have stated that there is not going to be a quick fix here.  We are in a mess still, lumbered with over paid, under achieving players, many of whom are on one final bumper contract.

Smith will be here next August, regardless of what happens between now and early May.  Get used to the idea and accept it.  He may not be pulling up trees presently but he will have his chance next season and rightly so.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on February 14, 2019, 05:03:13 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 14, 2019, 04:19:03 PM
Quote from: footyskillz on February 14, 2019, 04:14:49 PM

I going off site for time as have realized that really too many people here are going to be happy we are not getting promoted.

I don't want to be around such negative vibes.

Ta ra a bit then.  Don't let the door hit you on the arse mid flounce.
Thats the first thing to make me smile today !!!
Footyskillz - I admire your optimism but there is a fair bit of egg on people's faces right now - the playoffs are just a wild dream - I think the pragmatists have called it right - ie give Smith time
I think some people got a bit carried away initially when
Smith was first appointed - ie the Villa connection and some early improved performances which were misleading
Major surgery required in the summer - then give him two straight seasons - if he ain't cutting the mustard start all over again


Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on February 14, 2019, 05:06:21 PM
does it matter much what the formation is or the system you play if most of the players can't receive the ball and control it or keep possession of it under pressure
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on February 14, 2019, 05:08:09 PM
Quote from: XXVilla on February 14, 2019, 03:50:50 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 14, 2019, 03:37:52 PM
Quote from: XXVilla on February 14, 2019, 02:35:50 PM
I don’t want him sacked but he needs to get more out of the players he’s currently got. We can’t keep saying that it’s not his team or players. If he has aspirations to be a successful manager then this excuse is just not good enough.

We can keep saying that. Because it's true.

And people saying to change the system to suit the players are barking up the wrong tree. Why play Steve Bruce football again? It doesn't bloody work.

Well this doesnt bloody work either

Because its short - term thinking to expect it to.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on February 14, 2019, 05:14:49 PM
Quote from: john e on February 14, 2019, 05:06:21 PM
does it matter much what the formation is or the system you play if most of the players can't receive the ball and control it or keep possession of it under pressure
Which begs the question - Why do these so called professionals receive such high financial rewards if they can't even master the basic things in the game ?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on February 14, 2019, 05:38:50 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on February 14, 2019, 05:14:49 PM
Quote from: john e on February 14, 2019, 05:06:21 PM
does it matter much what the formation is or the system you play if most of the players can't receive the ball and control it or keep possession of it under pressure
Which begs the question - Why do these so called professionals receive such high financial rewards if they can't even master the basic things in the game ?


I don't know
But in our case it's mainly idiotic managers and idiotic recruitment policy
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chris Smith on February 14, 2019, 05:41:25 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on February 14, 2019, 05:14:49 PM
Quote from: john e on February 14, 2019, 05:06:21 PM
does it matter much what the formation is or the system you play if most of the players can't receive the ball and control it or keep possession of it under pressure
Which begs the question - Why do these so called professionals receive such high financial rewards if they can't even master the basic things in the game ?

I’m sure they can do it in training. The problem comes when they are up against younger, quicker, smarter, fitter players their limitations are exposed. Until the squad is reshaped and have a pre-season with Smith little will change.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: XXVilla on February 14, 2019, 05:52:59 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 14, 2019, 05:08:09 PM
Quote from: XXVilla on February 14, 2019, 03:50:50 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 14, 2019, 03:37:52 PM
Quote from: XXVilla on February 14, 2019, 02:35:50 PM
I don’t want him sacked but he needs to get more out of the players he’s currently got. We can’t keep saying that it’s not his team or players. If he has aspirations to be a successful manager then this excuse is just not good enough.

We can keep saying that. Because it's true.

And people saying to change the system to suit the players are barking up the wrong tree. Why play Steve Bruce football again? It doesn't bloody work.

Well this doesnt bloody work either

Because its short - term thinking to expect it to.

It’s not short term thinking to expect to be in the top half of the Champoinship whoever our manager or players are. He should be able to get a tune out of this lot.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on February 14, 2019, 06:09:19 PM
Quote from: Ian J on February 14, 2019, 04:19:00 PM
Quote from: darren woolley on February 14, 2019, 02:01:16 PM
Quote from: Ads on February 14, 2019, 01:44:15 PM
There's no guarantee that Smith is the answer. I think I've seen enough to make me hope and believe things can improve.

But, and the poster who wants him sacked now wanted him sacked a month or two back, would have seen Farke sacked long ago. Wilder sacked last season for their run of form. Johnson sacked numerous times over at Bristol. Wagnar sacked at Huddersfield for not improving them in year 1. Monk sacked at the Blues for their awful start.

At some point we've got to back a plan. It doesn't mean you accept the form or performances now, but you understand the context.

Cultural changes take time. China have been engaged in a cultural revolution since the 70s, building high rises to draw peasents out of the countryside, to live in cities and place a demand for an increase to the service economy for the new urban workers. Britain took 100 years in the 19th century to do the same. The leap from Bruce to modernity is on a similar scale.

A pre-season helps, but the more you look around this league the overwhelming difference is legs, running, ticker, whatever you want to call it. We're relying on full backs, central midfielders and wide men who have none.

The player threads are full of it and rightly so. We have the right idea, whether we have the right man time will tell.

I think it's foolish to accept the run, but doubly so to not afford this manager the opportunity of his peers. I think it will work out.


Excellent post Ads.

Yep, spot on Ads. Great post.

Great post and sums up where I am too.

Footyskills, what planet are you on my friend?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on February 14, 2019, 06:41:06 PM
Keepy Uppy Uranus
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Allan C on February 14, 2019, 06:42:15 PM
Quote from: mr underhill on February 14, 2019, 04:42:02 PM
that's the Leeds squad broadly similar to last season's that finished in mid table obscurity?

Yes that’s the one and is that not precisely the point???
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on February 14, 2019, 06:46:05 PM
to be honest Allan i can't remember - if I misinterpreted your post, apologies. My head hasn't recovered from watching our new left back yet.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on February 14, 2019, 06:50:08 PM
I'm with ads on this. We've annoyingly gone backwards from the first few weeks he was here but he showed then how bloody well his teams can play and there's no reason why we can't get back to that kind of level. We need to keep a bit of faith I think.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 14, 2019, 06:54:55 PM
I think anyone sensible doesn’t want Smith sacked, clearly. However, he needs to start showing he can adapt, adjust and have more than one string to his bow. The squad can’t play his preferred style, they were an embarrassment last night, he needs to find a way of getting the best out of them in the short-term. It’s not a good squad, but I don’t believe it’s as bad as we have played on numerous occasions in the last few weeks.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CJ on February 14, 2019, 07:00:29 PM
Quote from: Clampy on February 14, 2019, 06:50:08 PM
I'm with ads on this. We've annoyingly gone backwards from the first few weeks he was here but he showed then how bloody well his teams can play and there's no reason why we can't get back to that kind of level. We need to keep a bit of faith I think.

Second/thirded. Exactly how I feel
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: four fornicholl on February 14, 2019, 07:04:24 PM
Should Smithy not have been able to negate Brentford if it was his team?
Or more likely he can only piss with the cock he's got.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ROBBO on February 14, 2019, 07:07:00 PM
It is clear from kick off that all opposition attack the flanks they have watched our games and seen how poor our full backs are, playing Hause at left back was a crap decision he is a central defender if you want to destroy a players confidence coming back off a long lay off then play him out of position, it is something that Bruce would have done.
This is still the Bruce squad and we would be crazy to think of sacking Smith, give him the summer and half a season to see where we are.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on February 14, 2019, 07:36:36 PM
Robbo, Hause was not our worst defender, he wasn't responsible for the goal either.  Yes he has all the pace of a snail on a zimmer frame but he wasn't our worst player.  A crap decision was Tommy diving in when he didn't need to.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nunkin1965 on February 14, 2019, 07:44:07 PM
Quote from: CJ on February 14, 2019, 07:00:29 PM
Quote from: Clampy on February 14, 2019, 06:50:08 PM
I'm with ads on this. We've annoyingly gone backwards from the first few weeks he was here but he showed then how bloody well his teams can play and there's no reason why we can't get back to that kind of level. We need to keep a bit of faith I think.

Second/thirded. Exactly how I feel

I’m on-board this train as well
So to speak.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Tayls_7 on February 14, 2019, 07:52:43 PM
Quote from: Nunkin1965 on February 14, 2019, 07:44:07 PM
Quote from: CJ on February 14, 2019, 07:00:29 PM
Quote from: Clampy on February 14, 2019, 06:50:08 PM
I'm with ads on this. We've annoyingly gone backwards from the first few weeks he was here but he showed then how bloody well his teams can play and there's no reason why we can't get back to that kind of level. We need to keep a bit of faith I think.

Second/thirded. Exactly how I feel

I’m on-board this train as well
So to speak.

Dean has my backing.  Lazy, unmotivated,  underperformIng, ill fitting players don't.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on February 14, 2019, 07:55:53 PM
Quote from: XXVilla on February 14, 2019, 05:52:59 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 14, 2019, 05:08:09 PM
Quote from: XXVilla on February 14, 2019, 03:50:50 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 14, 2019, 03:37:52 PM
Quote from: XXVilla on February 14, 2019, 02:35:50 PM
I don’t want him sacked but he needs to get more out of the players he’s currently got. We can’t keep saying that it’s not his team or players. If he has aspirations to be a successful manager then this excuse is just not good enough.

We can keep saying that. Because it's true.

And people saying to change the system to suit the players are barking up the wrong tree. Why play Steve Bruce football again? It doesn't bloody work.

Well this doesnt bloody work either

Because its short - term thinking to expect it to.

It’s not short term thinking to expect to be in the top half of the Champoinship whoever our manager or players are. He should be able to get a tune out of this lot.

No point playing death metal when the crowd want classical and nobody listens to death metal any more.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 14, 2019, 08:20:23 PM
That argument assumes football is binary, it isn’t. There’s styles between Smith’s ideal and the nightmare of Bruce. Dean needs to work it out.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brassneck on February 14, 2019, 08:21:14 PM
Quote from: XXVilla on February 14, 2019, 05:52:59 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 14, 2019, 05:08:09 PM
Quote from: XXVilla on February 14, 2019, 03:50:50 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 14, 2019, 03:37:52 PM
Quote from: XXVilla on February 14, 2019, 02:35:50 PM
I don’t want him sacked but he needs to get more out of the players he’s currently got. We can’t keep saying that it’s not his team or players. If he has aspirations to be a successful manager then this excuse is just not good enough.

We can keep saying that. Because it's true.

And people saying to change the system to suit the players are barking up the wrong tree. Why play Steve Bruce football again? It doesn't bloody work.

Well this doesnt bloody work either

Because its short - term thinking to expect it to.

It’s not short term thinking to expect to be in the top half of the Champoinship whoever our manager or players are. He should be able to get a tune out of this lot.

You might say that Sunderland thought that too, last season.  Or Sheffield U & W, Wolves, Leeds, etc, etc.

We have no God given right to expect anything.  We must work hard and show our opponents respect.  We are where we are on merit and you are kidding yourself if you think we have an automatic right to be in the top half of this league.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: nigel on February 14, 2019, 08:26:58 PM
There's going to be a mass clear out in the summer.
Kodja, Adomah and the like will go, and, we will almost certainly lose Jack and Tammy, too, but, I think McGinn will stay.
Replacement wise, I can see Maupay, Sawyers and Lolley being with us next season.

We must show patience.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 14, 2019, 08:45:40 PM
Quote from: Ian J on February 14, 2019, 04:36:45 PM
Very well said Chris and Drummond.
Seconded
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on February 14, 2019, 08:46:32 PM
Nicked from Twitter

Dean Smith trying to play his way with a Steve Bruce squad is like Da Vinci painting the Mona Lisa with crayons.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 14, 2019, 08:47:19 PM
Quote from: CJ on February 14, 2019, 07:00:29 PM
Quote from: Clampy on February 14, 2019, 06:50:08 PM
I'm with ads on this. We've annoyingly gone backwards from the first few weeks he was here but he showed then how bloody well his teams can play and there's no reason why we can't get back to that kind of level. We need to keep a bit of faith I think.

Second/thirded. Exactly how I feel
Same here.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: rougegorge on February 14, 2019, 08:49:49 PM
I want him to succeed, but the massive dip in form and adverse results since Christmas is obviously concerning.

I'm now in two minds about him; it was so good for a short while and he has shown that he can manage teams to play attractive football, but equally neither Walsall nor Brentford had much to show for it with regard to their overall position.

He says that no team has outplayed Brentford at home for 4 seasons, which would indicate that he doesn't always get the results he should have done; so when a team gets outplayed as is happening to us with alarming regularity, it doesn't look as if he knows how to eke out a result.

A lot of fans are saying that he can't get the players to play like he wants and that they are not his squad, but thus far he hasn't demonstrated a capability to adapt and show versatility, flexibility  and resilience.

In my mind I know there is also an element of football snobbery; does experience at  Walsall and Brentford lend itself to being successful at Villa? Also being a Villa fan makes us want him to succeed even more but it doesn't bestow extra powers upon him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villa75 on February 14, 2019, 09:20:52 PM
Rosler and Warburton were successful at Brentford (with better win ratios than Smith). Where are they now?

I get it. He did ok at a smaller club. He's a Villa fan. But, his players or not, he has to do better than he is doing at the moment. We're not only not winning, we look like we're going backwards!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pooligan on February 14, 2019, 09:58:57 PM
Rosler is the manger of Malmo who played Chelsea tonight
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on February 14, 2019, 10:27:58 PM
Quote from: pooligan on February 14, 2019, 09:58:57 PM
Rosler is the manger of Malmo who played Chelsea tonight

I think that Dean Smith would get Malmo into the UEFA Cup.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tomd2103 on February 15, 2019, 01:39:19 AM
Quote from: Brassneck on February 14, 2019, 08:21:14 PM
Quote from: XXVilla on February 14, 2019, 05:52:59 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 14, 2019, 05:08:09 PM
Quote from: XXVilla on February 14, 2019, 03:50:50 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 14, 2019, 03:37:52 PM
Quote from: XXVilla on February 14, 2019, 02:35:50 PM
I don’t want him sacked but he needs to get more out of the players he’s currently got. We can’t keep saying that it’s not his team or players. If he has aspirations to be a successful manager then this excuse is just not good enough.

We can keep saying that. Because it's true.

And people saying to change the system to suit the players are barking up the wrong tree. Why play Steve Bruce football again? It doesn't bloody work.

Well this doesnt bloody work either

Because its short - term thinking to expect it to.

It’s not short term thinking to expect to be in the top half of the Champoinship whoever our manager or players are. He should be able to get a tune out of this lot.

You might say that Sunderland thought that too, last season.  Or Sheffield U & W, Wolves, Leeds, etc, etc.

We have no God given right to expect anything.  We must work hard and show our opponents respect.  We are where we are on merit and you are kidding yourself if you think we have an automatic right to be in the top half of this league.

Agree.  Said it after watching our first few games in the Championship - the teams down here do lack quality in the final third, but they are organised and work hard.  If you can't match their work rate, then you aren't going to win many games. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on February 15, 2019, 05:48:22 AM
Quote from: Newby on February 14, 2019, 06:09:19 PM
Quote from: Ian J on February 14, 2019, 04:19:00 PM
Quote from: darren woolley on February 14, 2019, 02:01:16 PM
Quote from: Ads on February 14, 2019, 01:44:15 PM
There's no guarantee that Smith is the answer. I think I've seen enough to make me hope and believe things can improve.

But, and the poster who wants him sacked now wanted him sacked a month or two back, would have seen Farke sacked long ago. Wilder sacked last season for their run of form. Johnson sacked numerous times over at Bristol. Wagnar sacked at Huddersfield for not improving them in year 1. Monk sacked at the Blues for their awful start.

At some point we've got to back a plan. It doesn't mean you accept the form or performances now, but you understand the context.

Cultural changes take time. China have been engaged in a cultural revolution since the 70s, building high rises to draw peasents out of the countryside, to live in cities and place a demand for an increase to the service economy for the new urban workers. Britain took 100 years in the 19th century to do the same. The leap from Bruce to modernity is on a similar scale.

A pre-season helps, but the more you look around this league the overwhelming difference is legs, running, ticker, whatever you want to call it. We're relying on full backs, central midfielders and wide men who have none.

The player threads are full of it and rightly so. We have the right idea, whether we have the right man time will tell.

I think it's foolish to accept the run, but doubly so to not afford this manager the opportunity of his peers. I think it will work out.


Excellent post Ads.

Yep, spot on Ads. Great post.

Great post and sums up where I am too.

Footyskills, what planet are you on my friend?

?? Newby
Oh why are you referenced me ?
Are you thinking I'm the poster who being alluded to about being sacked ?

I'm not .

Let's make that clear .

All I've been with this coach is critiquing where he is with things like.

Like I have stated a good example is that has the ' chrissy wilder ' potential if it works out.




Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on February 15, 2019, 05:57:21 AM
Perhaps the situation here at villa is that not exactly lost the dressing room but the novelty of the new coach has worn off and several players aren't performing because they are not 100% bought in.

And that Smith has tried too much too soon with this squad and now it's non performing on a 90 minute basis.

There is a chance , because I believe he'll get plenty of time , a successful football philosophy under his regime can occurr in time . Like Brentford.

However there is also every chance this won't work out as the players and performance to end of season won't help his cause and that this time next year it be over.

It really is that touch and go as I see it.
It's so in the balance with the nature of how football clubs are run today to weather Smith be here in year time

however ideally Smith will be making the right moves and building and say in years time will see playing performance squad in a more suited state with a clear identity.

The competitive nature to the challenge of the promotion places currently and even moving forward is the main concern even if get the playing level improved I worry about the quality of player .


Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on February 15, 2019, 06:05:10 AM
Quote from: footyskillz on January 15, 2019, 04:22:26 PM
Quote from: SamTheMouse on January 15, 2019, 03:11:32 PM
Give Smith a couple of transfer windows before judging him.

He has a preferred style of play which involves playing it out from the back and retaining possession, but the only defender capable of playing a pass is injured and it's made a big difference.

Once he's had a decent chance to put together a squad of his own choosing, we can start to decide whether he's the right man. Not before.

But I don't need to judge him on performance when he has his own team and squad as I already like the way smith wants his team to play football.


To me he's  the right man for the development side of things and building .
And the long game.

Have to say he has already been judged continuously in the job.

You and I, like many, have judged him too on his so called preferred playing style .

Also comments have helped reason to why the playing style isnt always being implemented in the team and squad he has picked.


If youre asking is he the right man in getting villa promotion?
Yes we will see about that over time
And that can only be judged on results and as you state a decent chance to put the squad together.

I can see that being 2 years from now which is ok and not ok.

Basically I'm wishing  in January 2020 competitive to the top 2 places in championship.
Though it could take longer

That's how I call it .
End of

Those who claim I speak nonsense on posts that's just an opinion not fact because I also make remarkable insightful ones too but as I say too much negative stuff going round with damped expectations and lack of critical thinking or alternative ideas being discussed with out being dismissed.

Boom.
up the villa



Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on February 15, 2019, 06:52:19 AM
Interesting technique.



I'm fucking brilliant me. Everything I say is right.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on February 15, 2019, 06:56:13 AM
Quote from: Drummond on February 15, 2019, 06:52:19 AM
I'm fucking brilliant me. Everything I say is right.

Too right. This wins the Internet.

Boomshakalakaramalamadingdong
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on February 15, 2019, 07:53:20 AM
I think I missed the remarkably nsightful things.

Buried in all the keyboard frenzy perhaps.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on February 15, 2019, 09:06:45 AM
I thought Skillz had  declared he was going into hiding for a while?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ROBBO on February 15, 2019, 09:13:40 AM
He's addicted to the love.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on February 15, 2019, 09:50:38 AM
I understand what Skillzy is trying to say, even if not with the way he is saying it. He doesn't like negativity and that's fine but it's something he needs to get used to when on a football forum, especially sometimes on this one.  People wanted change, they wanted a manager like Dean Smith and they're disappointed with how it's going. They're disappointed that the kind of progressive manager they wanted after Bruce is not pulling up any trees at the moment. They're also annoyed with some of Smith's decisions. I get that and it needs to improve. By the same token, we need to stick with it. It will probably take a pre-season and his own players and so be it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on February 15, 2019, 09:55:13 AM
Quote from: Clampy on February 15, 2019, 09:50:38 AM
I understand what Skillzy is trying to say, even if not with the way he is saying it. He doesn't like negativity and that's fine but it's something he needs to get used to when on a football forum, especially sometimes on this one.  People wanted change, they wanted a manager like Dean Smith and they're disappointed with how it's going. They're disappointed that the kind of progressive manager they wanted after Bruce is not pulling up any trees at the moment. They're also annoyed with some of Smith's decisions. I get that and it needs to improve. By the same token, we need to stick with it. It will probably take a pre-season and his own players and so be it.

I think it will take some of next season too, so that the new players get used to playing together. It's just how this stuff works.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on February 15, 2019, 10:08:21 AM
Quote from: Villa75 on February 14, 2019, 09:20:52 PM
Rosler and Warburton were successful at Brentford (with better win ratios than Smith). Where are they now?

I get it. He did ok at a smaller club. He's a Villa fan. But, his players or not, he has to do better than he is doing at the moment. We're not only not winning, we look like we're going backwards!
Dean Smith has a track record of building teams to play in a certain way. We've seen first hand what those teams look like every time we've played Brentford in this league. He did it at Walsall then made the step up to do it at Brentford. There's no reason to think he won't do the same at Villa Park. But patience is the key. I'm certain the squad we're currently seeing will be unrecognisable in the near future but for fuck's sake give the man a chance to prove himself.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: West Derby Villan on February 15, 2019, 10:20:02 AM
Quote from: The Edge on February 15, 2019, 10:08:21 AM
Quote from: Villa75 on February 14, 2019, 09:20:52 PM
Rosler and Warburton were successful at Brentford (with better win ratios than Smith). Where are they now?

I get it. He did ok at a smaller club. He's a Villa fan. But, his players or not, he has to do better than he is doing at the moment. We're not only not winning, we look like we're going backwards!
Dean Smith has a track record of building teams to play in a certain way. We've seen first hand what those teams look like every time we've played Brentford in this league. He did it at Walsall then made the step up to do it at Brentford. There's no reason to think he won't do the same at Villa Park. But patience is the key. I'm certain the squad we're currently seeing will be unrecognisable in the near future but for fuck's sake give the man a chance to prove himself.

TE, Agree 100%
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: XXVilla on February 15, 2019, 10:26:48 AM
Quote from: Drummond on February 14, 2019, 07:55:53 PM
Quote from: XXVilla on February 14, 2019, 05:52:59 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 14, 2019, 05:08:09 PM
Quote from: XXVilla on February 14, 2019, 03:50:50 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 14, 2019, 03:37:52 PM
Quote from: XXVilla on February 14, 2019, 02:35:50 PM
I don’t want him sacked but he needs to get more out of the players he’s currently got. We can’t keep saying that it’s not his team or players. If he has aspirations to be a successful manager then this excuse is just not good enough.

We can keep saying that. Because it's true.

And people saying to change the system to suit the players are barking up the wrong tree. Why play Steve Bruce football again? It doesn't bloody work.

Well this doesnt bloody work either

Because its short - term thinking to expect it to.

It’s not short term thinking to expect to be in the top half of the Champoinship whoever our manager or players are. He should be able to get a tune out of this lot.

No point playing death metal when the crowd want classical and nobody listens to death metal any more.

But then you have a band who can only play death metal and the show must go on so...
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on February 15, 2019, 10:48:29 AM
Quote from: XXVilla on February 15, 2019, 10:26:48 AM
Quote from: Drummond on February 14, 2019, 07:55:53 PM
Quote from: XXVilla on February 14, 2019, 05:52:59 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 14, 2019, 05:08:09 PM
Quote from: XXVilla on February 14, 2019, 03:50:50 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 14, 2019, 03:37:52 PM
Quote from: XXVilla on February 14, 2019, 02:35:50 PM
I don’t want him sacked but he needs to get more out of the players he’s currently got. We can’t keep saying that it’s not his team or players. If he has aspirations to be a successful manager then this excuse is just not good enough.

We can keep saying that. Because it's true.

And people saying to change the system to suit the players are barking up the wrong tree. Why play Steve Bruce football again? It doesn't bloody work.

Well this doesnt bloody work either

Because its short - term thinking to expect it to.

It’s not short term thinking to expect to be in the top half of the Champoinship whoever our manager or players are. He should be able to get a tune out of this lot.

No point playing death metal when the crowd want classical and nobody listens to death metal any more.

But then you have a band who can only play death metal and the show must go on so...

Then expect the audience to do little more than look on disdainfully until the band exeunt stage left.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clark W Griswold on February 15, 2019, 10:49:24 AM
Insightful my arse.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Roller on February 15, 2019, 10:56:14 AM
This is an interesting observation from a Brentford forum site.   

John Terry spent the game bending the 4th official's ear, or standing as far away from Dean Smith as possible or flouncing back to his seat. The only communication between him and Dean Smith was after a spell of pressure (a spell LOL, probably most of the game) Smith turned to Terry and told him to advise his defenders. Terry did this wirly thing with his fingers and pointed, it was very bizarre, I had to laugh, WTF was that meant to mean. On another occassion, when Villa were going forward, 2 of the defenders looked at Terry and strugged, looking like a couple of lost kids on a pitch not knowing what to do. I've never seen a pro footballer do this before. All in all, Smith & Terry are NOT working well together, their body language and lack of communication said it all. Villa were cr@p
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on February 15, 2019, 10:58:27 AM
Quote from: Roller on February 15, 2019, 10:56:14 AM
This is an interesting observation from a Brentford forum site.   

John Terry spent the game bending the 4th official's ear, or standing as far away from Dean Smith as possible or flouncing back to his seat. The only communication between him and Dean Smith was after a spell of pressure (a spell LOL, probably most of the game) Smith turned to Terry and told him to advise his defenders. Terry did this wirly thing with his fingers and pointed, it was very bizarre, I had to laugh, WTF was that meant to mean. On another occassion, when Villa were going forward, 2 of the defenders looked at Terry and strugged, looking like a couple of lost kids on a pitch not knowing what to do. I've never seen a pro footballer do this before. All in all, Smith & Terry are NOT working well together, their body language and lack of communication said it all. Villa were cr@p

More to the point, why was a Brentford fan watching our bench and not the game? File under bollocks.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 15, 2019, 11:01:08 AM
Perhaps he sits behind the dug out and therefore doesn't take him a lot of effort to do both.  It's not impossible to imagine that with things going as badly as they are, that two people who were thrust together and didn't really know each other before maybe aren't getting on as well as they might?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on February 15, 2019, 11:10:58 AM
Quote from: Roller on February 15, 2019, 10:56:14 AM
This is an interesting observation from a Brentford forum site.   

John Terry spent the game bending the 4th official's ear, or standing as far away from Dean Smith as possible or flouncing back to his seat. The only communication between him and Dean Smith was after a spell of pressure (a spell LOL, probably most of the game) Smith turned to Terry and told him to advise his defenders. Terry did this wirly thing with his fingers and pointed, it was very bizarre, I had to laugh, WTF was that meant to mean. On another occassion, when Villa were going forward, 2 of the defenders looked at Terry and strugged, looking like a couple of lost kids on a pitch not knowing what to do. I've never seen a pro footballer do this before. All in all, Smith & Terry are NOT working well together, their body language and lack of communication said it all. Villa were cr@p

Depends what the dynamic is, they could work well all week at Bodymoor heath and it's then decided on matchday that Terry should be more in the background.

What's clear to me is when a crucial decision has to be made, DS will turn to Richard O'Kelly more for input as they have the trust given O'Kelly was the number two at Walsall and Brentford.

They were talking plenty at 0-3 down last Friday night. John Terry has to earn that trust I'd say.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on February 15, 2019, 11:17:05 AM
Quote from: Risso on February 15, 2019, 11:01:08 AM
Perhaps he sits behind the dug out and therefore doesn't take him a lot of effort to do both.  It's not impossible to imagine that with things going as badly as they are, that two people who were thrust together and didn't really know each other before maybe aren't getting on as well as they might?

It's possible, although interesting that it hasn't been mentioned elsewhere, which is strange considering regular season ticket holders sit behind the dug out at every home game. Still, we must think the worst.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chris Smith on February 15, 2019, 11:18:21 AM
Quote from: Clampy on February 15, 2019, 10:58:27 AM
Quote from: Roller on February 15, 2019, 10:56:14 AM
This is an interesting observation from a Brentford forum site.   

John Terry spent the game bending the 4th official's ear, or standing as far away from Dean Smith as possible or flouncing back to his seat. The only communication between him and Dean Smith was after a spell of pressure (a spell LOL, probably most of the game) Smith turned to Terry and told him to advise his defenders. Terry did this wirly thing with his fingers and pointed, it was very bizarre, I had to laugh, WTF was that meant to mean. On another occassion, when Villa were going forward, 2 of the defenders looked at Terry and strugged, looking like a couple of lost kids on a pitch not knowing what to do. I've never seen a pro footballer do this before. All in all, Smith & Terry are NOT working well together, their body language and lack of communication said it all. Villa were cr@p

More to the point, why was a Brentford fan watching our bench and not the game? File under bollocks.

I imagine West London rivalry issues have a lot to do with it.

Terry is the apprentice so he’s obviously going to have less input than the more experienced members of the team. Complete non-issue I would say.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on February 15, 2019, 11:22:01 AM
Quote from: Chris Smith on February 15, 2019, 11:18:21 AM
Quote from: Clampy on February 15, 2019, 10:58:27 AM
Quote from: Roller on February 15, 2019, 10:56:14 AM
This is an interesting observation from a Brentford forum site.   

John Terry spent the game bending the 4th official's ear, or standing as far away from Dean Smith as possible or flouncing back to his seat. The only communication between him and Dean Smith was after a spell of pressure (a spell LOL, probably most of the game) Smith turned to Terry and told him to advise his defenders. Terry did this wirly thing with his fingers and pointed, it was very bizarre, I had to laugh, WTF was that meant to mean. On another occassion, when Villa were going forward, 2 of the defenders looked at Terry and strugged, looking like a couple of lost kids on a pitch not knowing what to do. I've never seen a pro footballer do this before. All in all, Smith & Terry are NOT working well together, their body language and lack of communication said it all. Villa were cr@p

More to the point, why was a Brentford fan watching our bench and not the game? File under bollocks.

I imagine West London rivalry issues have a lot to do with it.

Terry is the apprentice so he’s obviously going to have less input than the more experienced members of the team. Complete non-issue I would say.



Forgot about the London connection. Good point Chris.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on February 15, 2019, 11:22:52 AM
Quote from: Clampy on February 15, 2019, 11:17:05 AM
Quote from: Risso on February 15, 2019, 11:01:08 AM
Perhaps he sits behind the dug out and therefore doesn't take him a lot of effort to do both.  It's not impossible to imagine that with things going as badly as they are, that two people who were thrust together and didn't really know each other before maybe aren't getting on as well as they might?

It's possible, although interesting that it hasn't been mentioned elsewhere, which is strange considering regular season ticket holders sit behind the dug out at every home game. Still, we must think the worst.

I glanced over to DS a fair bit at 0-2/0-3 at the bench just to see what DS was doing about it and he was deep in conversation with O'Kelly on a few ocassions. Terry was very much in the background.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: XXVilla on February 15, 2019, 12:14:57 PM
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on February 15, 2019, 10:48:29 AM
Quote from: XXVilla on February 15, 2019, 10:26:48 AM
Quote from: Drummond on February 14, 2019, 07:55:53 PM
Quote from: XXVilla on February 14, 2019, 05:52:59 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 14, 2019, 05:08:09 PM
Quote from: XXVilla on February 14, 2019, 03:50:50 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 14, 2019, 03:37:52 PM
Quote from: XXVilla on February 14, 2019, 02:35:50 PM
I don’t want him sacked but he needs to get more out of the players he’s currently got. We can’t keep saying that it’s not his team or players. If he has aspirations to be a successful manager then this excuse is just not good enough.

We can keep saying that. Because it's true.

And people saying to change the system to suit the players are barking up the wrong tree. Why play Steve Bruce football again? It doesn't bloody work.

Well this doesnt bloody work either

Because its short - term thinking to expect it to.

It’s not short term thinking to expect to be in the top half of the Champoinship whoever our manager or players are. He should be able to get a tune out of this lot.

No point playing death metal when the crowd want classical and nobody listens to death metal any more.

But then you have a band who can only play death metal and the show must go on so...

Then expect the audience to do little more than look on disdainfully until the band exeunt stage left.

So you’re saying... Musicians can’t play how Smith wants them to. Smith still tries to get them to play how he wants. Smith ignores playing to the musicians’ strengths until he gets some new musicians who can play how he wants. Death metal band keep keep getting dreadful classical music reviews. Fans get annoyed anyway and shout rude things and boo. Smith still tries to get death metal band to still play classical music... etc etc
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 15, 2019, 12:24:36 PM
I heard a Blues band from Australia play a fine cover of War Pig at the Deaf Institute on Tuesday.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on February 15, 2019, 12:24:39 PM
Yes.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on February 15, 2019, 12:31:52 PM
Quote from: footyskillz on February 15, 2019, 06:05:10 AM
That's how I call it .
End of

Those who claim I speak nonsense on posts that's just an opinion not fact because I also make remarkable insightful ones too but as I say too much negative stuff going round with damped expectations and lack of critical thinking or alternative ideas being discussed with out being dismissed.

Boom.
up the villa

You don't get to, effectively, call the owner asset strippers who 'gave' us Smith and Terry as a distraction or call Mings a violent thug and then claim to be insightful. Sometimes you post things that are reasonably sensible but in the last week or 2 it's been mainly tantrums and sulking when people disagree with you.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 15, 2019, 12:34:01 PM
Quote from: footyskillz on February 15, 2019, 06:05:10 AM

Those who claim I speak nonsense on posts that's just an opinion not fact because I also make remarkable insightful ones too but as I say too much negative stuff going round with damped expectations and lack of critical thinking or alternative ideas being discussed with out being dismissed.

Boom.
up the villa


When does your break from posting on here begin, or have I missed it already?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: JUAN PABLO on February 15, 2019, 12:43:51 PM
We only have 6 decent players in the whole squad .

3 of them are not ours .

A fit Grealish , Axel , Chester with the likes of SJM , Mings and Tammy we are a top 4 side .  The rest are pretty poor.   Grealish and Axel getting injured was a massive blow at the wrong time.
The goalkeeper could come good.

Get those two back with Chester I think we could have a good final run.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KevinGage on February 15, 2019, 12:49:19 PM
Quote from: footyskillz on February 15, 2019, 06:05:10 AM

End of

Those who claim I speak nonsense on posts that's just an opinion not fact because I also make remarkable insightful ones too

Boom


Yas, the Peter Ustinov of transfer speculation. Don't need Sky Sports News anymore, it's all here.

Why the boom, though FS? Did you miss-time a header Ryan Mason-style?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: garyshawsknee on February 15, 2019, 12:49:42 PM
A back 4 containing Mings, Axel and Chester is strong on paper. Jack, McGinn and Hourihane worked before. We know what Tammy can, it's our lack of wide options that is worrying and the games running out too.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Diablo on February 15, 2019, 01:04:45 PM
Quote from: XXVilla on February 15, 2019, 10:26:48 AM
Quote from: Drummond on February 14, 2019, 07:55:53 PM
Quote from: XXVilla on February 14, 2019, 05:52:59 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 14, 2019, 05:08:09 PM
Quote from: XXVilla on February 14, 2019, 03:50:50 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 14, 2019, 03:37:52 PM
Quote from: XXVilla on February 14, 2019, 02:35:50 PM
I don’t want him sacked but he needs to get more out of the players he’s currently got. We can’t keep saying that it’s not his team or players. If he has aspirations to be a successful manager then this excuse is just not good enough.

We can keep saying that. Because it's true.

And people saying to change the system to suit the players are barking up the wrong tree. Why play Steve Bruce football again? It doesn't bloody work.

Well this doesnt bloody work either

Because its short - term thinking to expect it to.

It’s not short term thinking to expect to be in the top half of the Champoinship whoever our manager or players are. He should be able to get a tune out of this lot.

No point playing death metal when the crowd want classical and nobody listens to death metal any more.

But then you have a band who can only play death metal and the show must go on so...
I think Bruce was our Death Metal

And on the subject of the Footyskillz insightful or not debate ? I'm definitely in the insightful camp (some people just need to tune in and turn on).
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on February 15, 2019, 01:11:24 PM
Quote from: garyshawsknee on February 15, 2019, 12:49:42 PM
A back 4 containing Mings, Axel and Chester is strong on paper. Jack, McGinn and Hourihane worked before. We know what Tammy can, it's our lack of wide options that is worrying and the games running out too.

There isn't a hope of us going on the sort of late run to nick a playoff spot. Crap and all as our options are, they are still miles better than many squads above us in the division. We are effectively replicating the free pass Bruce was given in season one with Smith this season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: old man villa fan on February 15, 2019, 01:48:33 PM
Quote from: brontebilly on February 15, 2019, 01:11:24 PM
Quote from: garyshawsknee on February 15, 2019, 12:49:42 PM
A back 4 containing Mings, Axel and Chester is strong on paper. Jack, McGinn and Hourihane worked before. We know what Tammy can, it's our lack of wide options that is worrying and the games running out too.

There isn't a hope of us going on the sort of late run to nick a playoff spot. Crap and all as our options are, they are still miles better than many squads above us in the division. We are effectively replicating the free pass Bruce was given in season one with Smith this season.

Football is a team game and we are struggling to put an effective team on the pitch. It is easy to put 11 individuals on the pitch but getting them to perform as a team is the difficult part and it usually it takes time at this level.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tomd2103 on February 15, 2019, 02:03:53 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 15, 2019, 11:01:08 AM
Perhaps he sits behind the dug out and therefore doesn't take him a lot of effort to do both.  It's not impossible to imagine that with things going as badly as they are, that two people who were thrust together and didn't really know each other before maybe aren't getting on as well as they might?

Can see Terry leaving at the end of the season.  Not due to a fall out with Smith, but to get his own gig somewhere. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on February 15, 2019, 03:25:48 PM
with us? , only in jest before the opprobrium commences
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on February 15, 2019, 03:47:54 PM
Quote from: The Edge on February 15, 2019, 10:08:21 AM
Quote from: Villa75 on February 14, 2019, 09:20:52 PM
Rosler and Warburton were successful at Brentford (with better win ratios than Smith). Where are they now?

I get it. He did ok at a smaller club. He's a Villa fan. But, his players or not, he has to do better than he is doing at the moment. We're not only not winning, we look like we're going backwards!
Dean Smith has a track record of building teams to play in a certain way. We've seen first hand what those teams look like every time we've played Brentford in this league. He did it at Walsall then made the step up to do it at Brentford. There's no reason to think he won't do the same at Villa Park. But patience is the key. I'm certain the squad we're currently seeing will be unrecognisable in the near future but for fuck's sake give the man a chance to prove himself.


I know this is the new mantra we trot out when things are going bad, the Bruce mantra was the 4 promotions

I agree with it and want to see it happen
but I would still like to see some small evidence of improvements now

I'm not asking for a long winning run whilst playing beautiful football, just maybe a team performance where the players don't look like strangers and know the basics of pass and control of a football which had been missing for quite a while now

just some little hopes that Smiths philosophy can even with our bunch of ne'er-do-wells drag something out of them that isn't pure shit

and the whole thing doesn't just rely on the - lets magically get a whole new bunch of different and better players together and we will be great and get some usefull results

we need a better manager than that, let's hope we got one

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on February 15, 2019, 05:02:35 PM
I've seen one really good performance at home this season - the win against Birmingham. The Forest draw was entertaining, but a comedy of errors. I thought about missing tomorrow but will go more in ope than expectation. We need a Birmingham type performance tomorrow.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on February 15, 2019, 06:52:45 PM
Quote from: Roller on February 15, 2019, 10:56:14 AM
This is an interesting observation from a Brentford forum site.   

John Terry spent the game bending the 4th official's ear, or standing as far away from Dean Smith as possible or flouncing back to his seat. The only communication between him and Dean Smith was after a spell of pressure (a spell LOL, probably most of the game) Smith turned to Terry and told him to advise his defenders. Terry did this wirly thing with his fingers and pointed, it was very bizarre, I had to laugh, WTF was that meant to mean. On another occassion, when Villa were going forward, 2 of the defenders looked at Terry and strugged, looking like a couple of lost kids on a pitch not knowing what to do. I've never seen a pro footballer do this before. All in all, Smith & Terry are NOT working well together, their body language and lack of communication said it all. Villa were cr@p

If this brentford thing is accurate then it confirms my concerns about the level of coaching JT has.
It's entry level and has been concerning.
I flagged this up weeks ago. Oh good example of insight !

The observation maybe exaggerated but provide some logic to the inept displays from the defence.

That said the defensive nature has actually improved so maybe this bitter bee is just stirring the Smith /JT pot as they wish they had a taste of our sweet honey!

Up the villa !!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Richard on February 15, 2019, 07:04:15 PM
I've noticed the GK coach is the one nearest Smith most of the time which I find a bit strange when it should be Kelly or JT
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on February 15, 2019, 07:38:01 PM
Quote from: Richard on February 15, 2019, 07:04:15 PM
I've noticed the GK coach is the one nearest Smith most of the time which I find a bit strange when it should be Kelly or JT
They are probably having a laugh about they would never have spent £7 million on such a pile of shit whilst at Brentford :) only joking, I think LK is a wonderful acquisition and will be our GK for many years to come
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on February 15, 2019, 10:04:46 PM
How true were those Fonseca and Faria rumours before Smithy had the job.
? ( And all that Henry Stuff)

These are all would be coaches to fit into some alleged footballing strategy the villa now have with a Sporting director.

So that means a head coach is expendable as the next coach comes in who would have a similar football playing style.

One thing with Smith is that he doesn't have any success or  record of dealing with big players.

I  think it's clear villa changing the structure to have less of such players and more players who can develop with potential or sell on

And I think we do need to be aware that without promotion the ffp thing will really become an issue where the seemingly foundations of planning are based on a far smaller scale - termed 'sustainable'.

Yes Dean smith can cater for the smaller players and up and coming and that shows that's the path headed down in order to compensate for ffp.

The football will become fun and entertaining on a consistent basis. However the status may be lost .

It's really a need for a push to go up this season or we get a basically development team something like a Southampton of premier league who will sell on players .

Or worse (with respect) a Brentford style status of being a well run club that develop players to be sold and being stable in championship.




Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SheffieldVillain on February 15, 2019, 10:13:48 PM
Quote from: footyskillz on February 15, 2019, 10:04:46 PM
It's really a need for a push to go up this season or we get a basically development team something like a Southampton of premier league who will sell on players .

Or worse (with respect) a Brentford style status of being a well run club that develop players to be sold and being stable in championship.

Interesting points footy. I'd say this though.

Most teams in the premier league to one degree or another have become teams who will sell on players. Mahrez - too big for Leicester, moves onto City, they buy in Maddison who is being linked with Spurs. Everton - bought in Lukaku, too big for them, moves onto United. And so on. Even in their own way Spurs - sold Bale and Modric which financed a number of new young signings.

As to the second, we've just spent £7m on a goalkeeper and £4.5m on a right back, as well as offering £12m for Mepham. I don't think you need worry about us aiming for a Brentford style policy of having to make do with frees and £500k signings to sell on.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: XXVilla on February 15, 2019, 10:32:35 PM
Quote from: SheffieldVillain on February 15, 2019, 10:13:48 PM
Quote from: footyskillz on February 15, 2019, 10:04:46 PM
It's really a need for a push to go up this season or we get a basically development team something like a Southampton of premier league who will sell on players .

Or worse (with respect) a Brentford style status of being a well run club that develop players to be sold and being stable in championship.

Interesting points footy. I'd say this though.

Most teams in the premier league to one degree or another have become teams who will sell on players. Mahrez - too big for Leicester, moves onto City, they buy in Maddison who is being linked with Spurs. Everton - bought in Lukaku, too big for them, moves onto United. And so on. Even in their own way Spurs - sold Bale and Modric which financed a number of new young signings.

As to the second, we've just spent £7m on a goalkeeper and £4.5m on a right back, as well as offering £12m for Mepham. I don't think you need worry about us aiming for a Brentford style policy of having to make do with frees and £500k signings to sell on.

The only non selling clubs are Real Madrid and Barcelona
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on February 16, 2019, 08:26:32 AM
I think the definition of a selling club is one that routinely sells its best players, as opposed to occasionally.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on February 16, 2019, 08:58:10 AM
Quote from: SheffieldVillain on February 15, 2019, 10:13:48 PM
Quote from: footyskillz on February 15, 2019, 10:04:46 PM
It's really a need for a push to go up this season or we get a basically development team something like a Southampton of premier league who will sell on players .

Or worse (with respect) a Brentford style status of being a well run club that develop players to be sold and being stable in championship.

Interesting points footy. I'd say this though.

Most teams in the premier league to one degree or another have become teams who will sell on players. Mahrez - too big for Leicester, moves onto City, they buy in Maddison who is being linked with Spurs. Everton - bought in Lukaku, too big for them, moves onto United. And so on. Even in their own way Spurs - sold Bale and Modric which financed a number of new young signings.

As to the second, we've just spent £7m on a goalkeeper and £4.5m on a right back, as well as offering £12m for Mepham. I don't think you need worry about us aiming for a Brentford style policy of having to make do with frees and £500k signings to sell on.

The thing is a potential  concern though as yes quite right signings like the 7m Croatian no 1 and 5m french back along with reported bids of 12m were made but failure for promotion would that not see a dumbing down and selling of our assets ??

In respects there can be value to be had with astute smaller price signings .

Smaller wages for players too.

I can genuinely see more of those signings (ironically moving forward) because of failure to go up , the pattern that Dean Smith has in working with less established players

I admire what Norwich have been achieving, the way Sheffield utd play football . And how Frank lampard derby county (as they are now known) have developed .

A fushion of this over time I guess is what can hope for.

The bigger clubs like Leeds and Forest despite being in mix have had to seriously adapt and look to get ready get formula on and off pitch over several years.

Yes I have my cynicizm on the owners intention Its a very good thing they pumped money in to wipe the slate clean and grateful for that and I feel they may not lose interest if they are going down a sustainable route.
My thinking there is they would be fewer millions invested than operating a competitive premier league club.

I suppose there is nt the exact need to generate funds like before if all is correct with owners and ffp ?!

But we could certainly see a big overhaul in summer .
Jedinak, Richards, whelan maybe Hutton off the wage bill too.

Then likes of Kodjia , Chester Grealish(sad face) be sold on. As sellable assets
Adomah and Mcginn too?
Hourihane may be told to go to?

Maybe Hogan too ? Though I think some loan players Bree and Hogan could get reprieve if they 'success' on loan. A hunch more than anything . It may more be oft general case that they are being shifted out

Anyway a lot remains to be seen though the point about non promotion sees less money coming into villa


Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: McGraths Dry Cleaning on February 16, 2019, 09:02:51 AM
I think there are two problems at Villa.

1. Its a big club is in the sense that there are a lot of people working there. In my own professional career I've seen superstars from small companies come into a big organisation and fail mainly because they just aren't used to having to continually talk to so many people, explain what they're doing and have their ideas discussed by people.

The same is true in reverse. I've seen superstars from big companies come into small companies and strugggle for the opposite reason. Management is not always that straight forward. Of course many people can turn it on wherever they are but thats not everybody - our problem is we're not identifying the right managers and that's problem number 2

2. In the wider sense Villa is dysfunctional and we've forgotten how to do football. Overseas management always causes issues no matter what structure is left in place. Every successful business I've worked in over the last 30 years whether FTSE 100 or one man band would have the owner/CEO or whatever walking around identifying problems. Just because Villa employ lots of people it doens't mean they're the right people. Often people are more concerned with keeping their job rather than doing well at it. The vacuum caused by an overseas owner lets people off the hook.

This isn't me saying that Smith won't do well (although the players are starting to look like they don't know what they're supposed to be doing) but I think we should stop thinking about fu** another season in the Championship but more what's going to change to get us out of the Championship? So far we've lurched from one thing to another and in all that time we haven't brought many of our youngsters through as a regular have we? I just don't think we have a plan.

I get the impression the management at Villa think like a lot of people -  look how big the ground is, we won the European Cup once, why would a team like Brentford/Hudderfield/Norwich etc even be able to compete with us?



Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on February 16, 2019, 09:40:59 AM
Quote from: XXVilla on February 15, 2019, 10:32:35 PM
Quote from: SheffieldVillain on February 15, 2019, 10:13:48 PM
Quote from: footyskillz on February 15, 2019, 10:04:46 PM
It's really a need for a push to go up this season or we get a basically development team something like a Southampton of premier league who will sell on players .

Or worse (with respect) a Brentford style status of being a well run club that develop players to be sold and being stable in championship.

Interesting points footy. I'd say this though.

Most teams in the premier league to one degree or another have become teams who will sell on players. Mahrez - too big for Leicester, moves onto City, they buy in Maddison who is being linked with Spurs. Everton - bought in Lukaku, too big for them, moves onto United. And so on. Even in their own way Spurs - sold Bale and Modric which financed a number of new young signings.

As to the second, we've just spent £7m on a goalkeeper and £4.5m on a right back, as well as offering £12m for Mepham. I don't think you need worry about us aiming for a Brentford style policy of having to make do with frees and £500k signings to sell on.

The only non selling clubs are Real Madrid and Barcelona

Sorry when did you write this ??!
Modern football alert and update to an outdated view !!

PSG and Man City I think is what you meant to say.

Only one of the biggest super stars of the game was sold by Barca to PSG .

Neymar moved for a ridiculous sum actually.

Real Madrid sold Ronaldo to Juventus in summer.

How could you even forget the biggest ever world transfer by PSG to Barca near 200 mill for the football and world superstar Neymar?? in
That clearly indicates they are a selling club.


It's relative.

But to make such a cliche statement ,all be it this is a football chat where cliches are oft made, is showing not a great footballing insight to the modern game.

Historically yes but PSG and Man city are the teams which aren't selling clubs.


Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on February 16, 2019, 10:04:44 AM
Quote from: mr underhill on February 15, 2019, 09:06:45 AM
I thought Skillz had  declared he was going into hiding for a while?

Ha yes!
I'm going now and be back after the ' tough ' run in march !
Not a peep from me in meantime

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: jwarry on February 16, 2019, 11:48:18 AM
Interesting comments from Dean yesterday
“We (asked them to do something different) a few games ago, when we played against Ipswich and Reading, we changed the midfield to tighten up defensively.

“I felt we were too open on transitions and that helped.

“What has also helped is having a balance in defence now.”

Think I’d prefer to go back to us being cut open in transition as it was more entertaining!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on February 16, 2019, 12:13:24 PM
worryingly Dean is sounding more and more incoherent in interviews - a hybrid of TSM2 and Bruce. A win is really needed today.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: XXVilla on February 16, 2019, 12:54:33 PM
Quote from: footyskillz on February 16, 2019, 09:40:59 AM
Quote from: XXVilla on February 15, 2019, 10:32:35 PM
Quote from: SheffieldVillain on February 15, 2019, 10:13:48 PM
Quote from: footyskillz on February 15, 2019, 10:04:46 PM
It's really a need for a push to go up this season or we get a basically development team something like a Southampton of premier league who will sell on players .

Or worse (with respect) a Brentford style status of being a well run club that develop players to be sold and being stable in championship.

Interesting points footy. I'd say this though.

Most teams in the premier league to one degree or another have become teams who will sell on players. Mahrez - too big for Leicester, moves onto City, they buy in Maddison who is being linked with Spurs. Everton - bought in Lukaku, too big for them, moves onto United. And so on. Even in their own way Spurs - sold Bale and Modric which financed a number of new young signings.

As to the second, we've just spent £7m on a goalkeeper and £4.5m on a right back, as well as offering £12m for Mepham. I don't think you need worry about us aiming for a Brentford style policy of having to make do with frees and £500k signings to sell on.

The only non selling clubs are Real Madrid and Barcelona

Sorry when did you write this ??!
Modern football alert and update to an outdated view !!

PSG and Man City I think is what you meant to say.

Only one of the biggest super stars of the game was sold by Barca to PSG .

Neymar moved for a ridiculous sum actually.

Real Madrid sold Ronaldo to Juventus in summer.

How could you even forget the biggest ever world transfer by PSG to Barca near 200 mill for the football and world superstar Neymar?? in
That clearly indicates they are a selling club.


It's relative.

But to make such a cliche statement ,all be it this is a football chat where cliches are oft made, is showing not a great footballing insight to the modern game.

Historically yes but PSG and Man city are the teams which aren't selling clubs.

Ronaldo was only sold because they wanted to sell him at the best time for them. I take your point about Neymar. Man City are still a bit of a revolving door. Messi is still with Barca by the way and not with PSG in case you hadn’t noticed.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: curiousorange on February 16, 2019, 04:58:26 PM
I said this afternoon that I don't want Smith to go, but I don't think I'd notice if he did.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on February 16, 2019, 04:59:41 PM
I just can't see Smith being given time and money i honestly can't.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: GarTomas on February 16, 2019, 05:00:03 PM
Most of this squad won't be here next year I hope.

I back Dean to rebuild.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on February 16, 2019, 05:02:03 PM
He's got the rest of the season to prove he should be given the summer and another transfer window because this is not good enough.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: curiousorange on February 16, 2019, 05:02:09 PM
The amount of pressure Smith will be under to get it right after giving up half of this season is immense. Gut feeling, but we'll be welcoming yet another neck for the block by October.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VillaAlways on February 16, 2019, 05:02:12 PM
Quote from: mr underhill on February 16, 2019, 04:59:41 PM
I just can't see Smith being given time and money i honestly can't.
He won’t get to the end of the season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 16, 2019, 05:04:10 PM
What are the options.?
This season is now over, so we either start building towards next season with Smith or without him.
Someone has got to clear this squad out and I would hope that a Smith and a Terry know what needs to happen.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 16, 2019, 05:07:02 PM
Embarrassing again Dean.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: curiousorange on February 16, 2019, 05:07:57 PM
My only hope for next season right now is that there is a points total or cut-off game where the coaching staff accept they are in this league come August, and that's when we see some experiments or ruthless decisions taken. Because there's no hint of a reboot or rebuild at the moment. All I see is a shit football team with an overpromoted management team.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on February 16, 2019, 05:08:49 PM
Problem with this (his apparent inability to find a way to win) is that in reality teams rarely wipe the slate clean over the summer.

As we’ve seen very clearly a losing mentality gets into the bones of a team and is hard to get rid of.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: rob_bridge on February 16, 2019, 05:10:00 PM
Quote from: themossman on February 16, 2019, 05:08:49 PM
Problem with this (his apparent inability to find a way to win) is that in reality teams rarely wipe the slate clean over the summer.

As we’ve seen very clearly a losing mentality gets into the bones of a team and is hard to get rid of.

We have had it for nearly 10 years.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: goldenjimi on February 16, 2019, 05:11:56 PM
If I were the owners I would be getting David Wagner's phone number. He's starting to look out of his depth and won't last the season if this continues.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: curiousorange on February 16, 2019, 05:13:22 PM
There are so many pie in the sky assumptions fans seem to be making. One major one is that we'll sell an entire squad, bring another one in under the FFP wire, which will play amazing football after six weeks of training together, just because we don't have a dinosaur in charge.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 16, 2019, 05:13:38 PM
The squad is not fit for purpose and it is going to take more than a Jan transfer window to sort this out.
I still feel that at some point we have to back a management team to address this, I can not come up with available players from the squad to dramatically change the performances.
So for now I think we have to stick with this Management team.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: oldham_villa on February 16, 2019, 05:16:17 PM
Quote from: McGraths Dry Cleaning on February 16, 2019, 09:02:51 AM
I think there are two problems at Villa.

1. Its a big club is in the sense that there are a lot of people working there. In my own professional career I've seen superstars from small companies come into a big organisation and fail mainly because they just aren't used to having to continually talk to so many people, explain what they're doing and have their ideas discussed by people.

The same is true in reverse. I've seen superstars from big companies come into small companies and strugggle for the opposite reason. Management is not always that straight forward. Of course many people can turn it on wherever they are but thats not everybody - our problem is we're not identifying the right managers and that's problem number 2

2. In the wider sense Villa is dysfunctional and we've forgotten how to do football. Overseas management always causes issues no matter what structure is left in place. Every successful business I've worked in over the last 30 years whether FTSE 100 or one man band would have the owner/CEO or whatever walking around identifying problems. Just because Villa employ lots of people it doens't mean they're the right people. Often people are more concerned with keeping their job rather than doing well at it. The vacuum caused by an overseas owner lets people off the hook.

This isn't me saying that Smith won't do well (although the players are starting to look like they don't know what they're supposed to be doing) but I think we should stop thinking about fu** another season in the Championship but more what's going to change to get us out of the Championship? So far we've lurched from one thing to another and in all that time we haven't brought many of our youngsters through as a regular have we? I just don't think we have a plan.

I get the impression the management at Villa think like a lot of people -  look how big the ground is, we won the European Cup once, why would a team like Brentford/Hudderfield/Norwich etc even be able to compete with us?



Fantastic post
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nev on February 16, 2019, 05:16:22 PM
It was a risk appointing Smith, I prefer clubs to take a chance on up and coming coaches but they can be found out when stepping up to a bigger club with bigger ambitions. It looks increasingly likely here, I was gobsmacked that he did nothing to try and change formation after such poor performances. Perhaps he doesn't know how to....
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on February 16, 2019, 05:16:29 PM
I hope I am wrong but I can't  see Smith being radical enough in the summer.  The reality is that we need ten good players to come in over the three month break.  That's as good as one decent transfer deal a week.  I cannot see it happening.  I fear there will be more of the Kalinic/Hause/Mings/Carroll/Guilbert fannying about with loans and shirt fillers and not the top to bottom rebuild we are crying out for.  As others have said this feels like the relegation season all over again.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: curiousorange on February 16, 2019, 05:16:35 PM
We have to stick by one, agreed. But there is not a single hint that Smith should be that one. Not for me, anyway.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TopDeck113 on February 16, 2019, 05:16:47 PM
One of the things Dean needs to do, perhaps at the end of the season to avoid any more negativity, is to consider the logic of bringing in the novice Terry to do his coaching work experience.  For all his ability as a player, his influence on our defensive set up would appear to be zero.  Our goals against record is woeful.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: passport1 on February 16, 2019, 05:17:26 PM
We've reached a point where this management team cannot win a game, any game. At the very least you would expect some wins. This is unacceptable.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mike on February 16, 2019, 05:19:37 PM
I’m stunned at how bad our results are. I get that the squad isn’t great but he is incapable of getting any more out of them than Bruce did, who was absolutely fucking useless and rightly called out for it. I’m not one for sacking people early on, but we took way too long to accept that Lambert wasn’t the answer and we need to be very careful we don’t do the same again.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 16, 2019, 05:21:22 PM
Quote from: goldenjimi on February 16, 2019, 05:11:56 PM
If I were the owners I would be getting David Wagner's phone number. He's starting to look out of his depth and won't last the season if this continues.

How did Wagnar do in his first season. He took over when they were 19th. Have a guess where they finished.

He's too loyal to the system that these players can't work to and even now with the lack of central options, Whelan and Hourihane shouldn't be anywhere near the side.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: curiousorange on February 16, 2019, 05:21:45 PM
I never thought I'd say this, but set the team up for a 1-0 smash and grab, stop the rot and get some fucking pride back into the place.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on February 16, 2019, 05:22:43 PM
Quote from: Ads on February 16, 2019, 05:21:22 PM
Quote from: goldenjimi on February 16, 2019, 05:11:56 PM
If I were the owners I would be getting David Wagner's phone number. He's starting to look out of his depth and won't last the season if this continues.

How did Wagnar do in his first season. He took over when they were 19th. Have a guess where they finished.

He's too loyal to the system that these players can't work to and even now with the lack of central options, Whelan and Hourihane shouldn't be anywhere near the side.



Yep agree
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: wittonwarrior on February 16, 2019, 05:24:42 PM
No direction out there on the pitch and that’s the worrying thing. Even Bruce got some sort of tune out of the present crop even if it was off key. Sorry but no game plan = nil points
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: curiousorange on February 16, 2019, 05:27:55 PM
I think like so often in life, once it starts going wrong everything does. The defence is shit because of injury, a weak midfield and players who simply don't make the grade. The midfield lose the one player that makes their lacking talent look competent in this system. Up front, we have a disinterested player who can't get over not being number one, and a main striker who doesn't seem to be able to hit the side of a barn even after breaking a club record.

Give us something. A new player, a new partnership. Anything.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: goldenjimi on February 16, 2019, 05:29:04 PM
Quote from: Ads on February 16, 2019, 05:21:22 PM
Quote from: goldenjimi on February 16, 2019, 05:11:56 PM
If I were the owners I would be getting David Wagner's phone number. He's starting to look out of his depth and won't last the season if this continues.

How did Wagnar do in his first season. He took over when they were 19th. Have a guess where they finished.

He's too loyal to the system that these players can't work to and even now with the lack of central options, Whelan and Hourihane shouldn't be anywhere near the side.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: goldenjimi on February 16, 2019, 05:35:13 PM
Quote from: Ads on February 16, 2019, 05:21:22 PM
Quote from: goldenjimi on February 16, 2019, 05:11:56 PM
If I were the owners I would be getting David Wagner's phone number. He's starting to look out of his depth and won't last the season if this continues.

How did Wagnar do in his first season. He took over when they were 19th. Have a guess where they finished.

He's too loyal to the system that these players can't work to and even now with the lack of central options, Whelan and Hourihane shouldn't be anywhere near the side.

That's a fair point.

We need to see some progress with Smith though, surely he should have tried a different formation by now, instead of just shuffling the same few players about.  His subs are always like for like and never impact the game.

Would love it to work with Smith but it's getting harder and harder to see it happening.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KRS on February 16, 2019, 05:43:00 PM
I agree that the likes of Hologram, Whelan, Jedinak and BB shouldn't be any where near the squad, but who is Smith supposed to replace them with during the season? As far as I can see, he doesn't have any options and his hands are tied until the season is over.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on February 16, 2019, 05:43:54 PM
Simply has to change the formation now. Atrocious run.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nev on February 16, 2019, 05:44:30 PM
Quote from: aj2k77 on February 16, 2019, 05:43:54 PM
Simply has to change the formation now. Atrocious run.

SJM is suspended so here's his chance, bet he doesn't though.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 16, 2019, 05:44:43 PM
Play Ramsey. Kid gave it away a few times, but made some.decent forward runs into space.

Play 2 in midfield. Until Jack is back, does it really matter? We're not going up, we're not going down and the form is atrocious anyway.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on February 16, 2019, 05:57:57 PM
I suppose we shouldn't be surprised - appoint a manager who normally achieves mid table finishes and you get ......
Yes he has had to put up with the loss of injured players but according to some posters on here we have the strongest squad in the league :(
I think he has hid behind the loss of Grealish - yes he is our key player but we have placed an over reliance on the player - like all of us I want Smith to succeed and he needs time but the clock is already ticking- let's  face it the club is in a mess again and some leadership is required
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: XXVilla on February 16, 2019, 06:06:08 PM
He’s become Steve Bruce already
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on February 16, 2019, 06:06:20 PM
good job we went out the cups early on so we could concentrate on this league
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: curiousorange on February 16, 2019, 06:06:46 PM
I don't think he has hidden behind the loss of Grealish. I think everybody has created a hiding place for him. Smith hasn't said much about why it's not working and until the article in the last couple of days hasn't really gone into detail about what the plan is or why we're playing like we're playing. Yet somehow he's beyond reproach. Some things he can't control, but there is loads he can. That's what I'm most annoyed about - the acceptance of the idea that Smith simply can't get a tune out the squad because they're too dumb or unathletic to do what he wants them to.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Louzie0 on February 16, 2019, 06:07:47 PM
Quote from: mr underhill on February 12, 2019, 12:00:42 PM
I never had you down as being born in the nineteenth century Louise.

Sorry I missed this post!

Simple explanation.
Time travel, mr. u.
I was off visiting 2057 when the Villa won the FA Cup again.  Oh, the celebrations!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KRS on February 16, 2019, 06:11:39 PM
Unfortunately I don't think he can make wholesale changes. Our best young players are out on loan, and he must know that performances/results will be even worse if he drops these so called first team players.

@VCTM - please don't try and under value the loss of Grealish and Axel, and don't listen to anyone that claims we have the strongest squad in the league. Any team would miss both of those players and they were instrumental to the performances and results when Smith first came in. Without them we are a poor average mid table Championship team because that is the level of the players we have left.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: curiousorange on February 16, 2019, 06:12:13 PM
Quote from: Louzie0 on February 16, 2019, 06:07:47 PM
Quote from: mr underhill on February 12, 2019, 12:00:42 PM
I never had you down as being born in the nineteenth century Louise.

Sorry I missed this post!

Simple explanation.
Time travel, mr. u.
I was off visiting 2057 when the Villa won the FA Cup again.  Oh, the celebrations!

The FA Cup, by that time, being a pre-season tournament played in a mostly empty stadium in China's twentieth smallest city over the course of an afternoon.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KRS on February 16, 2019, 06:16:30 PM
Quote from: curiousorange on February 16, 2019, 06:06:46 PM
I don't think he has hidden behind the loss of Grealish. I think everybody has created a hiding place for him. Smith hasn't said much about why it's not working and until the article in the last couple of days hasn't really gone into detail about what the plan is or why we're playing like we're playing. Yet somehow he's beyond reproach. Some things he can't control, but there is loads he can. That's what I'm most annoyed about - the acceptance of the idea that Smith simply can't get a tune out the squad because they're too dumb or unathletic to do what he wants them to.
Just because they are wearing the famous claret and blue doesn't make them good players. We have to be honest and admit that these players are proper shite...they are mid table Championship players at best and that's why we are where we are, and that's why missing the likes of Grealish and Axel at this level makes such a difference.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Louzie0 on February 16, 2019, 06:18:33 PM
Quote from: curiousorange on February 16, 2019, 06:12:13 PM
Quote from: Louzie0 on February 16, 2019, 06:07:47 PM
Quote from: mr underhill on February 12, 2019, 12:00:42 PM
I never had you down as being born in the nineteenth century Louise.

Sorry I missed this post!

Simple explanation.
Time travel, mr. u.
I was off visiting 2057 when the Villa won the FA Cup again.  Oh, the celebrations!

The FA Cup, by that time, being a pre-season tournament played in a mostly empty stadium in China's twentieth smallest city over the course of an afternoon.
Oi! MarsUK Superbus Systems were tough opposition.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: curiousorange on February 16, 2019, 06:20:41 PM
No, that doesn't work for me. They may be limited but most of them were here under Bruce and came within a game of promotion. That doesn't make them good, or even make the football good, but they did work in a certain system and are certainly capable of the basics. Why should Smith get a nod of sympathy for not recognising that?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on February 16, 2019, 06:23:39 PM
he shouldn't Curious but we had a better team. Johnstone was better the Terry Chester partnership was better, Hutton and Elmo were playing better and were given much more protection by Albert and Snoddy, Hourihane was scoring , Grabban came in and did well, etc  etc.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KRS on February 16, 2019, 06:30:36 PM
Well that doesn't work for me...the team last season was much stronger with the likes of Johnstone, Terry and Snodgrass. We all know that there wasn't much of a "system" or style of play under Bruce...it was all very much as clueless as what we're seeing now, expect we have a weaker squad and have suffered major long term injuries to 3 of our best players. What is left is a very average team that is just about where it belongs. If you want to point the finger of blame then the players need to take more responsibility for their incompetence in doing the basics rather than Smith.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 16, 2019, 06:35:31 PM
Quote from: curiousorange on February 16, 2019, 06:20:41 PM
No, that doesn't work for me. They may be limited but most of them were here under Bruce and came within a game of promotion. That doesn't make them good, or even make the football good, but they did work in a certain system and are certainly capable of the basics. Why should Smith get a nod of sympathy for not recognising that?
Worked a system and capable of the basics, time does a funny thing to the memory
And we had Snodgrass Terry  Grabban.

Oh yes and a decent goalkeeper
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on February 16, 2019, 06:35:46 PM
Quote from: KRS on February 16, 2019, 06:30:36 PM
Well that doesn't work for me...the team last season was much stronger with the likes of Johnstone, Terry and Snodgrass. We all know that there wasn't much of a "system" or style of play under Bruce...it was all very much as clueless as what we're seeing now, expect we have a weaker squad and have suffered major long term injuries to 3 of our best players. What is left is a very average team that is just about where it belongs. If you want to point the finger of blame then the players need to take more responsibility for their incompetence in doing the basics rather than Smith.
So we have to endure this shite until such time as Smith decides he's got a squad of his own?  How long is that going to take?  How much is it going to cost?  For me he's got to demonstrate that he can work in testing circumstances as well as at times when he feels everything is in his favour.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ozzjim on February 16, 2019, 06:37:15 PM
Smith is a passenger until the summer. Then he hits the driving seat with his own squad. Guardiola spoke last week about how hard it is to change a style of play. Stick with him, support him and see what happens next season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on February 16, 2019, 06:38:08 PM
Quote from: KRS on February 16, 2019, 06:16:30 PM
Quote from: curiousorange on February 16, 2019, 06:06:46 PM
I don't think he has hidden behind the loss of Grealish. I think everybody has created a hiding place for him. Smith hasn't said much about why it's not working and until the article in the last couple of days hasn't really gone into detail about what the plan is or why we're playing like we're playing. Yet somehow he's beyond reproach. Some things he can't control, but there is loads he can. That's what I'm most annoyed about - the acceptance of the idea that Smith simply can't get a tune out the squad because they're too dumb or unathletic to do what he wants them to.
Just because they are wearing the famous claret and blue doesn't make them good players. We have to be honest and admit that these players are proper shite...they are mid table Championship players at best and that's why we are where we are, and that's why missing the likes of Grealish and Axel at this level makes such a difference.

That’s ok, but just because the manager is a Villa fan doesn’t mean he can do no wrong
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: XXVilla on February 16, 2019, 06:39:18 PM
Quote from: ozzjim on February 16, 2019, 06:37:15 PM
Smith is a passenger until the summer. Then he hits the driving seat with his own squad. Guardiola spoke last week about how hard it is to change a style of play. Stick with him, support him and see what happens next season.

That was Guardiola though
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 16, 2019, 06:39:36 PM
Quote from: Three Spires Villa on February 16, 2019, 06:38:08 PM
Quote from: KRS on February 16, 2019, 06:16:30 PM
Quote from: curiousorange on February 16, 2019, 06:06:46 PM
I don't think he has hidden behind the loss of Grealish. I think everybody has created a hiding place for him. Smith hasn't said much about why it's not working and until the article in the last couple of days hasn't really gone into detail about what the plan is or why we're playing like we're playing. Yet somehow he's beyond reproach. Some things he can't control, but there is loads he can. That's what I'm most annoyed about - the acceptance of the idea that Smith simply can't get a tune out the squad because they're too dumb or unathletic to do what he wants them to.
Just because they are wearing the famous claret and blue doesn't make them good players. We have to be honest and admit that these players are proper shite...they are mid table Championship players at best and that's why we are where we are, and that's why missing the likes of Grealish and Axel at this level makes such a difference.

That’s ok, but just because the manager is a Villa fan doesn’t mean he can do no wrong
I could not give a fuck about that and I seriously doubt that holds any water with most Villa fans.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: goldenjimi on February 16, 2019, 06:40:38 PM
Maybe Smith is going to turn out to be our Lambert at Wolves or Higginbottom at Leeds and we are going to be transformed next season!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KRS on February 16, 2019, 06:42:37 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on February 16, 2019, 06:35:46 PM
Quote from: KRS on February 16, 2019, 06:30:36 PM
Well that doesn't work for me...the team last season was much stronger with the likes of Johnstone, Terry and Snodgrass. We all know that there wasn't much of a "system" or style of play under Bruce...it was all very much as clueless as what we're seeing now, expect we have a weaker squad and have suffered major long term injuries to 3 of our best players. What is left is a very average team that is just about where it belongs. If you want to point the finger of blame then the players need to take more responsibility for their incompetence in doing the basics rather than Smith.
So we have to endure this shite until such time as Smith decides he's got a squad of his own?  How long is that going to take?  How much is it going to cost?  For me he's got to demonstrate that he can work in testing circumstances as well as at times when he feels everything is in his favour.
Yes. Until Jack, Chester and Axel return from injury, then unfortunately the best I can see from this bunch is the odd win or draw every now and again.

The good news is that we will lose most of these wasters in the summer, and we'll have the opportunity to bring in some replacements...but we'll have to hope they are much better and more astute signings that what this new set up identified in January. In terms of costs, it doesn't have to cost the earth...just look at the likes of Leeds, Norwich and Sheff Utd with their bunch of unknowns that are capable of playing like a team.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on February 16, 2019, 06:51:16 PM
Quote from: KRS on February 16, 2019, 06:11:39 PM
Unfortunately I don't think he can make wholesale changes. Our best young players are out on loan, and he must know that performances/results will be even worse if he drops these so called first team players.

@VCTM - please don't try and under value the loss of Grealish and Axel, and don't listen to anyone that claims we have the strongest squad in the league. Any team would miss both of those players and they were instrumental to the performances and results when Smith first came in. Without them we are a poor average mid table Championship team because that is the level of the players we have left.
I acknowledge that but if any team\club That  relies too heavily on one or two players you are screwed when they are not available - surely that's the point of a large squad - having adequate replacements - for me the issue is that we don't have a strong Team, prepared to work hard for each other - Leeds, Norwich and Sheffield Utd are tight knit units bursting a gut to get the right results - for us there is the get out that we are missing our two best players but surely that does explain the massive decline in performances since they've been unavailable - maybe that's what we will see next season - a whole new batch of hard working younger players - but it's gonna take longer than a summer to knit them together as a team - two seasons I would guess - will Smith be afforded that time? I think not
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 16, 2019, 06:52:47 PM
VCTM, and the alternative is?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 16, 2019, 06:54:07 PM
The trouble is I can't see where the next win is coming from.  None of the next five look like very winnable.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Richard E on February 16, 2019, 06:55:36 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 16, 2019, 06:54:07 PM
The trouble is I can't see where the next win is coming from.  None of the next five look like very winnable.

Looking at the fixtures it might not be before Rotherham away, and that’s in April!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 16, 2019, 06:55:47 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 16, 2019, 06:54:07 PM
The trouble is I can't see where the next win is coming from.  None of the next five look like very winnable.
Not sure it matters, this season is over.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ozzjim on February 16, 2019, 06:57:02 PM
He should be. At least he has a long term strategy.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on February 16, 2019, 07:00:23 PM
I genuinly don't know what he can do in this situation. Its clear to us all that 4-3-3 isn't working and I get the calls for 4-4-2 but then its still 2 of the useless ****** in the middle, who the fuck would you play there? Any combination is utterly dreadful (probably a bit harsh on McGinn but he cant do the work of 2 every fucking week).
We could try 3-5-2 , but then who the fuck plays as wing backs? Once again its an utterly frightful thought.
I cant fucking wait for this season to end and for the vast majority to never step foot in Villa Park again.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Allan C on February 16, 2019, 07:03:26 PM
Quote from: KRS on February 16, 2019, 05:43:00 PM
I agree that the likes of Hologram, Whelan, Jedinak and BB shouldn't be any where near the squad, but who is Smith supposed to replace them with during the season? As far as I can see, he doesn't have any options and his hands are tied until the season is over.
Absolutely correct. We are currently stuck with a poor mid-table squad and it makes me laugh when people knock Smith for not getting more out of them. I ask those people how do you get more out of them???
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Allan C on February 16, 2019, 07:07:19 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on February 16, 2019, 05:57:57 PM
I suppose we shouldn't be surprised - appoint a manager who normally achieves mid table finishes and you get ......
Yes he has had to put up with the loss of injured players but according to some posters on here we have the strongest squad in the league :(
I think he has hid behind the loss of Grealish - yes he is our key player but we have placed an over reliance on the player - like all of us I want Smith to succeed and he needs time but the clock is already ticking- let's  face it the club is in a mess again and some leadership is required
It staggers me that people ever thought that this was the strongest squad in the league. It’s nowhere near it
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on February 16, 2019, 07:07:47 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 16, 2019, 06:52:47 PM
VCTM, and the alternative is?
Probably drugs and alcohol :)
Patience is key but that is in short supply especially in the modern game and life in general - I've been led to believe that these owners are " the real deal"  and have a vision for the club .....right now I'm struggling to see light at the end of the tunnel
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 16, 2019, 07:09:23 PM
Quote from: ozzjim on February 16, 2019, 06:37:15 PM
Smith is a passenger until the summer. Then he hits the driving seat with his own squad. Guardiola spoke last week about how hard it is to change a style of play. Stick with him, support him and see what happens next season.

Sorry I accept it may not be ideal now for him, but equally he can’t just absolve responsibility. It’s fucking garbage and he needs to show he can adapt.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 16, 2019, 07:09:53 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on February 16, 2019, 07:07:47 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 16, 2019, 06:52:47 PM
VCTM, and the alternative is?
Probably drugs and alcohol :)
Patience is key but that is in short supply especially in the modern game and life in general - I've been lead to believe that these owners are " the real deal"  and have a vision for the club .....right now I'm struggling to see light at the end of the tunnel
Feel the same mate and like you hoping that this time it will be different. UTV.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on February 16, 2019, 07:13:44 PM
One of the problems is that we keep seeing certain players who have not delivered starting week after week.

Hourihane has been having a nightmare for months and Whelan is past it but there they are, every week.

I know we are not over endowed with midfield options but we do have them - he used one when he yanked Hourihane today.

But what is the betting Hourihane and Whelan start next week?

That's what I don't get. The repeated use of players who just don't deliver, in largely the same system.

I just don't see how that ever magically starts working beyond the odd scrappy point.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Allan C on February 16, 2019, 07:15:09 PM
Quote from: curiousorange on February 16, 2019, 06:20:41 PM
No, that doesn't work for me. They may be limited but most of them were here under Bruce and came within a game of promotion. That doesn't make them good, or even make the football good, but they did work in a certain system and are certainly capable of the basics. Why should Smith get a nod of sympathy for not recognising that?
It should work for you. That team also had Terry and Snodgrass and a performing Grealish and still couldn’t get there. Take those away and you’re left with what we have now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KRS on February 16, 2019, 07:16:37 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on February 16, 2019, 06:51:16 PM
Quote from: KRS on February 16, 2019, 06:11:39 PM
Unfortunately I don't think he can make wholesale changes. Our best young players are out on loan, and he must know that performances/results will be even worse if he drops these so called first team players.

@VCTM - please don't try and under value the loss of Grealish and Axel, and don't listen to anyone that claims we have the strongest squad in the league. Any team would miss both of those players and they were instrumental to the performances and results when Smith first came in. Without them we are a poor average mid table Championship team because that is the level of the players we have left.
I acknowledge that but if any team\club That  relies too heavily on one or two players you are screwed when they are not available - surely that's the point of a large squad - having adequate replacements - for me the issue is that we don't have a strong Team, prepared to work hard for each other - Leeds, Norwich and Sheffield Utd are tight knit units bursting a gut to get the right results - for us there is the get out that we are missing our two best players but surely that does explain the massive decline in performances since they've been unavailable - maybe that's what we will see next season - a whole new batch of hard working younger players - but it's gonna take longer than a summer to knit them together as a team - two seasons I would guess - will Smith be afforded that time? I think not
I asked the same question weeks ago and only seen performances get worse and worse...each week it has been "our worst performance" until the next game. The simple answer to this conundrum is the one that is staring in the face, and that is losing our 2 best players in Jack and Axel does make a difference. This league is full of shite teams that can beat each other on any given day, and that is personified by the team currently occupying the top 6 places...if you're missing 2-3 of your best players then that makes a whole world of difference to performances and results when the rest of the squad is so average.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KevinGage on February 16, 2019, 07:17:29 PM
Quote from: ozzjim on February 16, 2019, 06:37:15 PM
Smith is a passenger until the summer. Then he hits the driving seat with his own squad. Guardiola spoke last week about how hard it is to change a style of play. Stick with him, support him and see what happens next season.

The issue with that ozzjim is he is looking increasingly hapless and hopeless.

As a Villa fan it might be hitting him even harder, I don't know. But much more of this over the remainder of the season might break him. 

He's unlikely to be able to sign 11+ new players this summer, so there will have to be some pragmatism and aptitude to make the new signings he does make mesh with at least some of the existing team.

I could see like someone like Brendan Rodgers doing that (not saying he'd be interested in the job).

I'm not sure I can see the current incumbent do that. 

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: rougegorge on February 16, 2019, 07:21:51 PM
I've barely missed a match this season and given that we are in the 'second' division, this is some of the worst football I have seen since I started going and I have seen a lot.

I am getting tired of the "Steve Bruce's fault" and  "Bruceball" mantras in order to justify why we are doing so badly; also the excuse that Dean Smith has been dealt such an awful hand. We were good last season and now we are rubbish. The manager needs to play his hand far better than this.

We got rid of Bruce because both the club and many fans thought it was bad, and the message was clear enough at the time. We needed a change as we wanted things to improve and go up.

Neither have materialised and what's being served up now in terms of formation and tactics doesn't currently give me confidence that things will get better.

I get the argument about needing time and we can point at Farke and Wagner, but the expectations at those clubs are way less and that's important.

Also Wagner took Huddersfield up playing very functional defensive football with a negative goal difference,  and continued it after promotion. I'm sure we'd all be happy with that.








Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brassneck on February 16, 2019, 07:23:01 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on February 16, 2019, 07:13:44 PM
One of the problems is that we keep seeing certain players who have not delivered starting week after week.

Hourihane has been having a nightmare for months and Whelan is past it but there they are, every week.

I know we are not over endowed with midfield options but we do have them - he used one when he yanked Hourihane today.

But what is the betting Hourihane and Whelan start next week?

That's what I don't get. The repeated use of players who just don't deliver, in largely the same system.

I just don't see how that ever magically starts working beyond the odd scrappy point.

Not over endowed?

3 are injured, 1 is suspended next week, leaving Jedi, Whelan, BB, Hourihane & Ramsey.

What 3 would you pick?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on February 16, 2019, 07:30:38 PM
Quote from: KevinGage on February 16, 2019, 07:17:29 PM
Quote from: ozzjim on February 16, 2019, 06:37:15 PM
Smith is a passenger until the summer. Then he hits the driving seat with his own squad. Guardiola spoke last week about how hard it is to change a style of play. Stick with him, support him and see what happens next season.

The issue with that ozzjim is he is looking increasingly hapless and hopeless.

As a Villa fan it might be hitting him even harder, I don't know. But much more of this over the remainder of the season might break him. 

He's unlikely to be able to sign 11+ new players this summer, so there will have to be some pragmatism and aptitude to make the new signings he does make mesh with at least some of the existing team.

I could see like someone like Brendan Rodgers doing that (not saying he'd be interested in the job).

I'm not sure I can see the current incumbent do that. 


good points KG - especially about the numbers coming in - I read somewhere that he brought in 18 New faces in his first season at Brentford - that is extraordinary - whilst something similar would create an exciting pre season it's a big ask to get them gelled as a team in such a short space   of time - I wonder if he and the club have a clear plan and strategy of who is going and who is coming in ?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on February 16, 2019, 07:38:56 PM
Short of drafting in the U23s en masse, what can he do? If he did that, from what I've seen of those that have played, including today, they'd get ripped to bits every week. And then what? Cries of why does he let these kids get destroyed when we've got experienced pros on the bench?

Change the system? Why? We might as well have kept Bruce in that case. I'm assuming he was hired for a reason, and I bet it wasn't something as short term as seeing what he can get out of this rabble. If that was the case, we should've gone all out to get Pulis.

What we're seeing now isn't our future, it's the death throes of this sorry, inglorious decade. I'm certain of that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SteveN on February 16, 2019, 07:42:35 PM
I pin my hopes on that we will "do a Norwich".  Many fans wanted Farke out in his first season but the board stuck with him, he made wholesale changes in the close season, and look at them now.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on February 16, 2019, 07:44:40 PM
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on February 16, 2019, 07:38:56 PM
Short of drafting in the U23s en masse, what can he do? If he did that, from what I've seen of those that have played, including today, they'd get ripped to bits every week. And then what? Cries of why does he let these kids get destroyed when we've got experienced pros on the bench?

Change the system? Why? We might as well have kept Bruce in that case. I'm assuming he was hired for a reason, and I bet it wasn't something as short term as seeing what he can get out of this rabble. If that was the case, we should've gone all out to get Pulis.

What we're seeing now isn't our future, it's the death throes of this sorry, inglorious decade. I'm certain of that.
I agree with every word.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 16, 2019, 07:57:06 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on February 16, 2019, 06:35:46 PM
Quote from: KRS on February 16, 2019, 06:30:36 PM
Well that doesn't work for me...the team last season was much stronger with the likes of Johnstone, Terry and Snodgrass. We all know that there wasn't much of a "system" or style of play under Bruce...it was all very much as clueless as what we're seeing now, expect we have a weaker squad and have suffered major long term injuries to 3 of our best players. What is left is a very average team that is just about where it belongs. If you want to point the finger of blame then the players need to take more responsibility for their incompetence in doing the basics rather than Smith.
So we have to endure this shite until such time as Smith decides he's got a squad of his own?  How long is that going to take?  How much is it going to cost?  For me he's got to demonstrate that he can work in testing circumstances as well as at times when he feels everything is in his favour.

Endure? You forgot we'd played the other day!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on February 16, 2019, 08:10:49 PM
Without JMG, Grealish, Chester and Tuanzebe for the immediate future we should do a Wimbledon and play Route 1 until  we have our team back together.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: myf on February 16, 2019, 08:14:24 PM
by my calcs it's 1.4 points per game which is same as Bruce
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 16, 2019, 08:27:15 PM
Dean has to try something different, he needs to think about it and adjust. I get the limitations of the squad, but even accounting for that it’s piss poor. He won’t make the summer if this continues.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AlexAlexCropley on February 16, 2019, 08:30:32 PM
He's a coach well respected. I see no evidence. At the meet and greet night he said we'd get in the playoffs. He was wrong
Don't want it but he's toast.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 16, 2019, 08:33:47 PM
He doesn’t need to make the play-offs to make the summer, but he needs to show signs of positive progress. At the moment it’s far far too poor.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on February 16, 2019, 08:35:17 PM
He has donned the mantle of Dead Man Walking very early in his Villa career.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on February 16, 2019, 08:39:28 PM
Sadly,  three performances of note since arriving apart , there is nothing substantive to suggest that Smith is going to turn this round. I honestly don't think he's going to be here after May unless he wins three quarters of our remaining games.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 16, 2019, 08:40:09 PM
Indeed, and it’s recoverable but he needs to adapt his system.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on February 16, 2019, 08:40:53 PM
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on February 16, 2019, 07:38:56 PM
Short of drafting in the U23s en masse, what can he do? If he did that, from what I've seen of those that have played, including today, they'd get ripped to bits every week. And then what? Cries of why does he let these kids get destroyed when we've got experienced pros on the bench?

Change the system? Why? We might as well have kept Bruce in that case. I'm assuming he was hired for a reason, and I bet it wasn't something as short term as seeing what he can get out of this rabble. If that was the case, we should've gone all out to get Pulis.

What we're seeing now isn't our future, it's the death throes of this sorry, inglorious decade. I'm certain of that.

we are getting ripped apart every week now
Wigan, Brentford, WBA

all these so called experienced players that you keep insisting we must keep playing getting thrashed and humiliated every week
it’s pathetic

start the ones we are going to keep next season and fill the rest with u23’s
we won’t do any worse than now and at least our own players would be gaining valuable experience and we could see if they were going to be worth sticking with

I couldn’t disagree with your post more
I hate the cautious we can’t do nothing about it attitude



Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on February 16, 2019, 08:41:11 PM
Quote from: brian green on February 16, 2019, 08:35:17 PM
He has donned the mantle of Dead Man Walking very early in his Villa career.
The Villa job really is a poisoned chalice
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 16, 2019, 08:42:27 PM
He'll be here next August no matter what.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on February 16, 2019, 08:43:52 PM
He won't if results carry on like this and nor should he be.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on February 16, 2019, 08:44:02 PM
I've made my position clear multiple times, i'm willing to be patient with Smith as I feel the long term benefits will far outweigh the current shite. He does however look like he's feeling it a bit at the moment, i'm hoping that's because he see's just how fucking useless the majority of our midfield is.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: adrenachrome on February 16, 2019, 08:44:39 PM
Quote from: brian green on February 16, 2019, 08:10:49 PM
Without JMG, Grealish, Chester and Tuanzebe for the immediate future we should do a Wimbledon and play Route 1 until  we have our team back together.

I see where you are coming from Brian, and DS has started picking 2 holding midfielders, which goes against his footballing principles.  Sad to say, one of those has been Hourihane, presumably on the basis that he has the ability to fire long range passes from defensive positions. This has never been his game, and he has been badly exposed.

Today we played the pressing game for 25 minutes or so and then went back deep yet again. It has been clear throughout this latest lean period that the current players cannot play to his design.

3 explanations spring to mind:
1. He has been told to build a team his way, and exposing players who are not up to it is acceptable collateral damage.

2. He has been told no such thing, but it is the only way he knows of playing, and finds the clarion call "can we not knock it?"  anathema to his principles.

3. He has gone wrong in his mental tank, like many previous managers. He has aged 5 years in no time at all, and will be soon looking like Danny Dyer shagged out after a long squauwk.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 16, 2019, 08:46:04 PM
I don’t know about that. I’m not saying we will, but if we lost say 10 of our remaining games I suspect the owners may look at the situation.

I would stress I want him to succeed, I really do, but fucking hell he needs to show he can adapt and adjust when things aren’t going his way.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on February 16, 2019, 08:47:31 PM
don't you think he should have done so by now though?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 16, 2019, 08:48:06 PM
Things will improve when Jack is back and we have more midfield options. I don't see us making the Play Offs now, but I don't think that will impact upon him being here next year.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on February 16, 2019, 08:48:46 PM
Quote from: mr underhill on February 16, 2019, 08:43:52 PM
He won't if results carry on like this and nor should he be.

You think a manager known for his high intensity attacking football won't be here next season based on his current results with a bunch of cloggers that have no idea how to play his way? he'll be here in August without a shadow of a doubt.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AlexAlexCropley on February 16, 2019, 08:50:47 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on February 16, 2019, 08:48:46 PM
Quote from: mr underhill on February 16, 2019, 08:43:52 PM
He won't if results carry on like this and nor should he be.

You think a manager known for his high intensity attacking football won't be here next season based on his current results with a bunch of cloggers that have no idea how to play his way? he'll be here in August without a shadow of a doubt.
This is the worst football served up for years. Carry on he's gone. Villa fan or not.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 16, 2019, 08:52:00 PM
It's no worse than Bruce, but comes with the happened expectation it will get better. Under Wor Bruce we knew that was the limit.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on February 16, 2019, 08:52:13 PM
Quote from: AlexAlexCropley on February 16, 2019, 08:50:47 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on February 16, 2019, 08:48:46 PM
Quote from: mr underhill on February 16, 2019, 08:43:52 PM
He won't if results carry on like this and nor should he be.

You think a manager known for his high intensity attacking football won't be here next season based on his current results with a bunch of cloggers that have no idea how to play his way? he'll be here in August without a shadow of a doubt.
This is the worst football served up for years. Carry on he's gone. Villa fan or not.
Well its not is it? its been this shite for years.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 16, 2019, 08:52:19 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on February 16, 2019, 08:48:46 PM
Quote from: mr underhill on February 16, 2019, 08:43:52 PM
He won't if results carry on like this and nor should he be.

You think a manager known for his high intensity attacking football won't be here next season based on his current results with a bunch of cloggers that have no idea how to play his way? he'll be here in August without a shadow of a doubt.

Again, you can’t just absolve the manager’s responsibility. He needs to show that he has a clue how to adapt, and manage the squad he has now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AlexAlexCropley on February 16, 2019, 08:55:39 PM
Quote from: Ads on February 16, 2019, 08:52:00 PM
It's no worse than Bruce, but comes with the happened expectation it will get better. Under Wor Bruce we knew that was the limit.
Wrap it up how you like. Much worse.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on February 16, 2019, 08:55:52 PM
I am as despondent as everyone else on here but we probably shouldn't be surprised. From the minute MON walked out of the door we became a poor Premier League side culminating in a relegation season that was shambolic even for a relegated club. We had a 'smoke and mirrors' owner take over and probably jettisoned RDM too soon. We then swiftly became a bang average Championship team apart from the glimmer of hope that the play offs provided. We had the worst pre season turmoil I can remember in my time supporting Villa and however grateful we are for the takeover it came far later in the summer than was ideal. The owners stuck with Bruce and gave him a chance, which at the time all things considered I thought was the right thing to do. Now we appear to have the right owners and the right structure and we also have a promising Championship manager many people wanted us to appoint (he wasn't my first choice but he was right up there on my list). The fact is that apart from our run to the play off final, in the last eight years we have gone from six years of fighting relegation to nearly three years of in general being bang average in the Championship. A late takeover and a manager brought in after the season had started was far from the ideal scenario. I am not entirely convinced Dean Smit is the man to get us up but I think he deserves a pre season and some time next season to get it right. I think it is bite the bullet time for us fans. Obviously we could still go up this season but at the moment everything points to us still being in this league next season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on February 16, 2019, 08:56:41 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on February 16, 2019, 08:52:19 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on February 16, 2019, 08:48:46 PM
Quote from: mr underhill on February 16, 2019, 08:43:52 PM
He won't if results carry on like this and nor should he be.

You think a manager known for his high intensity attacking football won't be here next season based on his current results with a bunch of cloggers that have no idea how to play his way? he'll be here in August without a shadow of a doubt.

Again, you can’t just absolve the manager’s responsibility. He needs to show that he has a clue how to adapt, and manage the squad he has now.
If we wanted a manager that could come in and adapt to these players then we should of called up Allardyce or Pulis. Thankfully from my perspective, we thought more long term.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 16, 2019, 08:57:45 PM
Quote from: AlexAlexCropley on February 16, 2019, 08:55:39 PM
Quote from: Ads on February 16, 2019, 08:52:00 PM
It's no worse than Bruce, but comes with the happened expectation it will get better. Under Wor Bruce we knew that was the limit.
Wrap it up how you like. Much worse.

It isn't. Results are the same. We had 60 minutes of good football against Brentford and 20 minutes against Hull under Bruce in August. I'd say Smith is well up on that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on February 16, 2019, 08:59:10 PM
Quote from: Brassneck on February 16, 2019, 07:23:01 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on February 16, 2019, 07:13:44 PM
One of the problems is that we keep seeing certain players who have not delivered starting week after week.

Hourihane has been having a nightmare for months and Whelan is past it but there they are, every week.

I know we are not over endowed with midfield options but we do have them - he used one when he yanked Hourihane today.

But what is the betting Hourihane and Whelan start next week?

That's what I don't get. The repeated use of players who just don't deliver, in largely the same system.

I just don't see how that ever magically starts working beyond the odd scrappy point.

Not over endowed?

3 are injured, 1 is suspended next week, leaving Jedi, Whelan, BB, Hourihane & Ramsey.

What 3 would you pick?

I'm not just talking about next week, I am talking since he arrived.

I don't think Hourihane is terrible but he has been having a nightmare week after week now and still gets picked. The longer that goes on, the less likely we are to get anything out of him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 16, 2019, 09:00:06 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on February 16, 2019, 08:56:41 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on February 16, 2019, 08:52:19 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on February 16, 2019, 08:48:46 PM
Quote from: mr underhill on February 16, 2019, 08:43:52 PM
He won't if results carry on like this and nor should he be.

You think a manager known for his high intensity attacking football won't be here next season based on his current results with a bunch of cloggers that have no idea how to play his way? he'll be here in August without a shadow of a doubt.

Again, you can’t just absolve the manager’s responsibility. He needs to show that he has a clue how to adapt, and manage the squad he has now.
If we wanted a manager that could come in and adapt to these players then we should of called up Allardyce or Pulis. Thankfully from my perspective, we thought more long term.

Well no, it doesn’t mean you have to hoof it. However maybe we could tweak the system a bit.

Long-term is clearly important, but if I’m thinking long-term I’d want to see my manager showing the capability to adapt to adversity.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 16, 2019, 09:01:37 PM
Jack and McGinn are good enough to carry another or at least make Hourihane look ok.

I'd definitely mix it up now. Give Ramsey a bash with his energy and brightness. If Angela, Jack and Carroll are back, then chuck them in.

Do something different Smith.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 16, 2019, 09:03:07 PM
Quote from: Ads on February 16, 2019, 09:01:37 PM
Jack and McGinn are good enough to carry another or at least make Hourihane look ok.

I'd definitely mix it up now. Give Ramsey a bash with his energy and brightness. If Angela, Jack and Carroll are back, then chuck them in.

Do something different Smith.

And that’s exactly it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on February 16, 2019, 09:10:25 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on February 16, 2019, 09:03:07 PM
Quote from: Ads on February 16, 2019, 09:01:37 PM
Jack and McGinn are good enough to carry another or at least make Hourihane look ok.

I'd definitely mix it up now. Give Ramsey a bash with his energy and brightness. If Angela, Jack and Carroll are back, then chuck them in.

Do something different Smith.

And that’s exactly it.

And I imagine he will. But he can't while they aren't available.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on February 16, 2019, 09:13:49 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on February 16, 2019, 09:00:06 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on February 16, 2019, 08:56:41 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on February 16, 2019, 08:52:19 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on February 16, 2019, 08:48:46 PM
Quote from: mr underhill on February 16, 2019, 08:43:52 PM
He won't if results carry on like this and nor should he be.

You think a manager known for his high intensity attacking football won't be here next season based on his current results with a bunch of cloggers that have no idea how to play his way? he'll be here in August without a shadow of a doubt.

Again, you can’t just absolve the manager’s responsibility. He needs to show that he has a clue how to adapt, and manage the squad he has now.
If we wanted a manager that could come in and adapt to these players then we should of called up Allardyce or Pulis. Thankfully from my perspective, we thought more long term.

Well no, it doesn’t mean you have to hoof it. However maybe we could tweak the system a bit.

Long-term is clearly important, but if I’m thinking long-term I’d want to see my manager showing the capability to adapt to adversity.
We're probably going to end up going round in circles here, and I can genuinely see your side to it but im hoping he will be able to adapt to adversity when he has his own squad. Hopefully having the kind of players that he is comfortable working with will mean he has different ways and ideas to deal with different scenarios, he certainly talks a good tactical game.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on February 16, 2019, 09:14:15 PM
In his post match interview Smith bemoaned that Albion Sat on their 2-0 lead making it difficult for us ......no shit Sherlock !!!
What did he expect them to do ? Leave themselves wide open so we could just waltz through their defence
I'm not seeing the forward thinking tactical exponent we thought we were getting -  I agree with an earlier post which suggests he is like a deer/rabbit caught in the headlights of an oncoming car - and yes he is looking a bit jaded
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on February 16, 2019, 09:14:24 PM
He needs to start planning for next season and bring kids in for these shit, old fuckers until Jack gets back. The current approach has failed. Ditch shit like Whelan, Jedinak, Hourihane and others where possible and start getting different players involved. Picking Whelan week after week after week is a recipe for unmitigated disaster.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 16, 2019, 09:18:55 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 16, 2019, 06:55:47 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 16, 2019, 06:54:07 PM
The trouble is I can't see where the next win is coming from.  None of the next five look like very winnable.
Not sure it matters, this season is over.

I think it only matters in as far as that if he only gets one or two points, he could be toast.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KRS on February 16, 2019, 09:19:00 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on February 16, 2019, 08:52:19 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on February 16, 2019, 08:48:46 PM
Quote from: mr underhill on February 16, 2019, 08:43:52 PM
He won't if results carry on like this and nor should he be.

You think a manager known for his high intensity attacking football won't be here next season based on his current results with a bunch of cloggers that have no idea how to play his way? he'll be here in August without a shadow of a doubt.

Again, you can’t just absolve the manager’s responsibility. He needs to show that he has a clue how to adapt, and manage the squad he has now.
Do you genuinely and honestly really think that the squad available to Smith right now is better than the sum of its return in terms of performances and results? If so, please enlighten us all as to how Smith should get more out of the likes of Hutton, Elmo, Taylor, Whelan, Hologram, Jedinak, Kodjia, Adomoh, El Ghazi and BB.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 16, 2019, 09:21:13 PM
Quote from: KRS on February 16, 2019, 09:19:00 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on February 16, 2019, 08:52:19 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on February 16, 2019, 08:48:46 PM
Quote from: mr underhill on February 16, 2019, 08:43:52 PM
He won't if results carry on like this and nor should he be.

You think a manager known for his high intensity attacking football won't be here next season based on his current results with a bunch of cloggers that have no idea how to play his way? he'll be here in August without a shadow of a doubt.

Again, you can’t just absolve the manager’s responsibility. He needs to show that he has a clue how to adapt, and manage the squad he has now.
Do you genuinely and honestly really think that the squad available to Smith right now is better than the sum of its return in terms of performances and results?

It's better than getting horsed 3-0 by Wigan.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Roysmert on February 16, 2019, 09:21:46 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on February 16, 2019, 08:59:10 PM
Quote from: Brassneck on February 16, 2019, 07:23:01 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on February 16, 2019, 07:13:44 PM
One of the problems is that we keep seeing certain players who have not delivered starting week after week.

Hourihane has been having a nightmare for months and Whelan is past it but there they are, every week.

I know we are not over endowed with midfield options but we do have them - he used one when he yanked Hourihane today.

But what is the betting Hourihane and Whelan start next week?

That's what I don't get. The repeated use of players who just don't deliver, in largely the same system.

I just don't see how that ever magically starts working beyond the odd scrappy point.

Not over endowed?

3 are injured, 1 is suspended next week, leaving Jedi, Whelan, BB, Hourihane & Ramsey.

What 3 would you pick?

I'm not just talking about next week, I am talking since he arrived.

I don't think Hourihane is terrible but he has been having a nightmare week after week now and still gets picked. The longer that goes on, the less likely we are to get anything out of him.

Just a bit over the top, "nightmare week after week".
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on February 16, 2019, 09:22:24 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 16, 2019, 09:21:13 PM
Quote from: KRS on February 16, 2019, 09:19:00 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on February 16, 2019, 08:52:19 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on February 16, 2019, 08:48:46 PM
Quote from: mr underhill on February 16, 2019, 08:43:52 PM
He won't if results carry on like this and nor should he be.

You think a manager known for his high intensity attacking football won't be here next season based on his current results with a bunch of cloggers that have no idea how to play his way? he'll be here in August without a shadow of a doubt.

Again, you can’t just absolve the manager’s responsibility. He needs to show that he has a clue how to adapt, and manage the squad he has now.
Do you genuinely and honestly really think that the squad available to Smith right now is better than the sum of its return in terms of performances and results?

It's better than getting horsed 3-0 by Wigan.
We've had better squads than this get horsed 3-0  by Wigan.

Edit.... although I've just had a quick look at 'that' squad and fuck me it was bad!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 16, 2019, 09:24:00 PM
That's true, he's not even waited for the next week before having his next nightmare performance.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 16, 2019, 09:26:43 PM
Quote from: KRS on February 16, 2019, 09:19:00 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on February 16, 2019, 08:52:19 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on February 16, 2019, 08:48:46 PM
Quote from: mr underhill on February 16, 2019, 08:43:52 PM
He won't if results carry on like this and nor should he be.

You think a manager known for his high intensity attacking football won't be here next season based on his current results with a bunch of cloggers that have no idea how to play his way? he'll be here in August without a shadow of a doubt.

Again, you can’t just absolve the manager’s responsibility. He needs to show that he has a clue how to adapt, and manage the squad he has now.
Do you genuinely and honestly really think that the squad available to Smith right now is better than the sum of its return in terms of performances and results? If so, please enlighten us all as to how Smith should get more out of the likes of Hutton, Elmo, Taylor, Whelan, Hologram, Jedinak, Kodjia, Adomoh, El Ghazi and BB.

I believe they could be better if they had a tweak in style that didn’t expose their clear weaknesses. More direct perhaps? I.e. less time on the ball when they’re not capable. This is what the manager is paid a lot to work out.

I want him to get the chance to have the players he wants to play the style he wants, but he needs to bridge the gap over the next few months to do that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KRS on February 16, 2019, 09:28:20 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on February 16, 2019, 09:14:15 PM
In his post match interview Smith bemoaned that Albion Sat on their 2-0 lead making it difficult for us ......no shit Sherlock !!!
What did he expect them to do ? Leave themselves wide open so we could just waltz through their defence
I'm not seeing the forward thinking tactical exponent we thought we were getting -  I agree with an earlier post which suggests he is like a deer/rabbit caught in the headlights of an oncoming car - and yes he is looking a bit jaded
I think you have interpreted his interview wrong...in his last 2 post game interviews he has fallen just short of saying that he's limited and frustrated by the shit players he has at his disposal. Quite clearly he can't come out and say that, but against Brentford he alluded to the fact that our players can't pass and move, and today he said that they weren't creative enough to break Baggies down. Both of these statements are correct, and that is exactly why Moore decided to sit on the 2 goal lead because he knows the Villa team are slow, don't have any creative outlets, and concede possession easily by making simple mistakes such as poor ball control or a misplaced pass/cross. We carry no threat to any teams simply due to the players available and on the pitch.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on February 16, 2019, 09:30:51 PM
They shut up shop second half and we lacked the quality to break them down. Which is what he said. You ask what did he expect them to do, well what did you expect DS to say post match apart from what actually happened in the game?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on February 16, 2019, 09:33:31 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on February 16, 2019, 09:30:51 PM
They shut up shop second half and we lacked the quality to break them down. Which is what he said. You ask what did he expect them to do, well what did you expect DS to say post match apart from what actually happened in the game?

Exactly, I think that's his 'professional' way of saying the players I have here are fucking shite.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ASHTONVILLA on February 16, 2019, 09:34:42 PM
Might want to open my thread back up if this carries on for much longer. Shit and getting shitter, not good enough.

And judging by what he has chosen to bring in I am far from convinced I want Smith to have a summer transfer window. Kalinic we seem to have paid about £5m too much for, Hause is not very good, Mings looks decent but is only on loan. If this is any indication of what kind of players he would assemble given time then better not to give him time.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on February 16, 2019, 09:36:25 PM
Quote from: ASHTONVILLA on February 16, 2019, 09:34:42 PM
Might want to open my thread back up if this carries on for much longer. Shit and getting shitter, not good enough.

And judging by what he has chosen to bring in I am far from convinced I want Smith to have a summer transfer window. Kalinic we seem to have paid about £5m too much for, Hause is not very good, Mings looks decent but is only on loan. If this is any indication of what kind of players he would assemble given time then better not to give him time.
You probably need to get an understanding of how our transfer in system works before going off on any future rants.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on February 16, 2019, 09:37:10 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on February 16, 2019, 09:26:43 PM
Quote from: KRS on February 16, 2019, 09:19:00 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on February 16, 2019, 08:52:19 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on February 16, 2019, 08:48:46 PM
Quote from: mr underhill on February 16, 2019, 08:43:52 PM
He won't if results carry on like this and nor should he be.

You think a manager known for his high intensity attacking football won't be here next season based on his current results with a bunch of cloggers that have no idea how to play his way? he'll be here in August without a shadow of a doubt.

Again, you can’t just absolve the manager’s responsibility. He needs to show that he has a clue how to adapt, and manage the squad he has now.
Do you genuinely and honestly really think that the squad available to Smith right now is better than the sum of its return in terms of performances and results? If so, please enlighten us all as to how Smith should get more out of the likes of Hutton, Elmo, Taylor, Whelan, Hologram, Jedinak, Kodjia, Adomoh, El Ghazi and BB.

I believe they could be better if they had a tweak in style that didn’t expose their clear weaknesses. More direct perhaps? I.e. less time on the ball when they’re not capable. This is what the manager is paid a lot to work out.

I want him to get the chance to have the players he wants to play the style he wants, but he needs to bridge the gap over the next few months to do that.

So we agree then that these players are inadequate footballers?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ASHTONVILLA on February 16, 2019, 09:39:33 PM
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on February 16, 2019, 09:37:10 PM
So we agree then that these players are inadequate footballers?

Not sure I do, most of the have done far better elsewhere when played in a way that suits them.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Fred Crump on February 16, 2019, 09:40:51 PM
Quote from: ASHTONVILLA on February 16, 2019, 09:34:42 PM
Might want to open my thread back up if this carries on for much longer. Shit and getting shitter, not good enough.

And judging by what he has chosen to bring in I am far from convinced I want Smith to have a summer transfer window. Kalinic we seem to have paid about £5m too much for, Hause is not very good, Mings looks decent but is only on loan. If this is any indication of what kind of players he would assemble given time then better not to give him time.

I agree about Kalinic, I think he’s a total dud and we need to cut our losses with him, but if Mings and Hause(on today’s performance) are an indication of the sort of quality he wants to bring in, that’s ok by me as they are miles better than anything we have at the moment, bar Grealish , Tammy ( and he’s not ours either) and McGinn.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 16, 2019, 09:42:51 PM
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on February 16, 2019, 09:37:10 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on February 16, 2019, 09:26:43 PM
Quote from: KRS on February 16, 2019, 09:19:00 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on February 16, 2019, 08:52:19 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on February 16, 2019, 08:48:46 PM
Quote from: mr underhill on February 16, 2019, 08:43:52 PM
He won't if results carry on like this and nor should he be.

You think a manager known for his high intensity attacking football won't be here next season based on his current results with a bunch of cloggers that have no idea how to play his way? he'll be here in August without a shadow of a doubt.

Again, you can’t just absolve the manager’s responsibility. He needs to show that he has a clue how to adapt, and manage the squad he has now.
Do you genuinely and honestly really think that the squad available to Smith right now is better than the sum of its return in terms of performances and results? If so, please enlighten us all as to how Smith should get more out of the likes of Hutton, Elmo, Taylor, Whelan, Hologram, Jedinak, Kodjia, Adomoh, El Ghazi and BB.

I believe they could be better if they had a tweak in style that didn’t expose their clear weaknesses. More direct perhaps? I.e. less time on the ball when they’re not capable. This is what the manager is paid a lot to work out.

I want him to get the chance to have the players he wants to play the style he wants, but he needs to bridge the gap over the next few months to do that.

So we agree then that these players are inadequate footballers?

Of course they are, some of them. So then you acknowledge the squad you have and adjust to try and manage that.

The point is that it is not acceptable for us just to lose week in and week out and just to continue with basically the same plan and expect it to change.

Again I want Smith to succeed, I want us ultimately to play entertaining football. But that won’t happen if the manager can’t show improvement between now and the end of the season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Fred Crump on February 16, 2019, 09:48:32 PM
Why are you so sure ? I thought the owners brought him here because they had a long term plan. We won’t be relegated so what would be the sense in sacking him without giving him time to change the squad?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on February 16, 2019, 09:49:22 PM
I don't see why our manager should be expected to stoop to their level, rather than the players attempting to lift themselves to his.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 16, 2019, 09:51:18 PM
I don’t, but if we lost say 10 of our remaining games I’d be surprised if the owners retained confidence in the manager for the long-term.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on February 16, 2019, 09:54:44 PM
The odds of him still being here in August if we don't win another game this season are slim. I'd have thought that was pretty obvious. That said we'll win some, he'll still be here in August and we're going to smash the fuck out of this poxy league at last.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Fred Crump on February 16, 2019, 09:55:39 PM
Totally agree
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on February 16, 2019, 09:58:55 PM
But we won't lose 10, because Jack will be back, and we'll be back to how we were before. With Green, Ramsey, Carroll, Hause and Mings too, maybe even better.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 16, 2019, 09:59:11 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on February 16, 2019, 09:54:44 PM
The odds of him still being here in August if we don't win another game this season are slim. I'd have thought that was pretty obvious. That said we'll win some, he'll still be here in August and we're going to smash the fuck out of this poxy league at last.

I love it when you talk dirty.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on February 16, 2019, 10:06:03 PM
So who are we going to beat in our next few games? Stoke away draw, Derby home lose, Small Heath lose. Or we kid ourselves all is fine and we’re going to win every game! We are in a very bad place & the club & fans need to wake up to this. Another poor manager appointment.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 16, 2019, 10:07:10 PM
I predict at Stoke the game will be so dull that the rapture will happen.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AVH87 on February 16, 2019, 10:08:26 PM
I've been all for giving him the summer transfer window to reshape the squad, but there are two concerns.

The obvious one being the results which are deserved based on the performances.

The second one is that we've got worse since he had a transfer window, where he was backed to the tune of over 10m by bringing in Kalinic, plus loan fees for Mings and possibly Carroll and Hause. Obviously his last signing, the RB from Caen, we haven't seen yet. I'd have expected improvement from any manager given that budget, January or not.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on February 16, 2019, 10:10:58 PM
Quote from: Ads on February 16, 2019, 10:07:10 PM
I predict at Stoke the game will be so dull that the rapture will happen.

So does that mean you'll be there at the end, or will you have left early?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 16, 2019, 10:12:28 PM
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on February 16, 2019, 10:10:58 PM
Quote from: Ads on February 16, 2019, 10:07:10 PM
I predict at Stoke the game will be so dull that the rapture will happen.

So does that mean you'll be there at the end, or will you have left early?

Average speed limit with cameras all the way past the moon into the celestial land beyond. Fucking nightmare journey.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on February 16, 2019, 10:12:33 PM
He'll stay to the end to beat the traffic.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on February 16, 2019, 10:17:16 PM

Quote from: PeterWithesShin on February 16, 2019, 09:54:44 PM
The odds of him still being here in August if we don't win another game this season are slim. I'd have thought that was pretty obvious. That said we'll win some, he'll still be here in August and we're going to smash the fuck out of this poxy league at last.
You didn’t say which league you tease?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AlexAlexCropley on February 16, 2019, 10:17:53 PM
He's on the 'shrooms
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 16, 2019, 10:18:44 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on February 16, 2019, 10:12:33 PM
He'll stay to the end to beat the traffic.

I'm going to hang around to speak to O'Leary. I don't think he'll be going anywhere soon. The git.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on February 16, 2019, 10:19:12 PM
Quote from: olaftab on February 16, 2019, 10:17:16 PM

Quote from: PeterWithesShin on February 16, 2019, 09:54:44 PM
The odds of him still being here in August if we don't win another game this season are slim. I'd have thought that was pretty obvious. That said we'll win some, he'll still be here in August and we're going to smash the fuck out of this poxy league at last.
You didn’t say which league you tease?

 :P
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KRS on February 16, 2019, 10:19:17 PM
I think some fans need to wake up, get a reality check and acknowledge that (with the exception of a few) our squad is piss poor and should set their expectations lower whilst our best players are out injured. Without those players, we are a poor Championship team on par with the likes of Blackburn, Sheffield Weds, Stoke (we're clearly not as good as Hull, Swansea or Brentford)...but with those players fit, then we are capable of making the playoffs.

Also note that Bruce had a fully fit squad at the start of the season which included Grealish and Axel...he still couldn't get a tune out of them, lost his job and we'd most likely be in a relegation scrap if he was still here. It wasn't perfect due to individual errors and mistakes, but Smith brought about an instant improvement in performances, style of play and results which has only declined since losing those key players.

At some point we have to stop this managerial merry go round at Villa Park, and you can't crucify Smith so soon after inheriting the shambles of a squad that has been left on his doorstep by his predecessors. There will be a big clear out in the summer, and the only thing that matters between now and then is that the fans keep their shit together and be patient regardless of results. Short term thinking leads to long term problems.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on February 16, 2019, 10:22:58 PM
So what nearly everyone has been saying then?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AVH87 on February 16, 2019, 10:27:27 PM
Quote from: KRS on February 16, 2019, 10:19:17 PM
I think some fans need to wake up, get a reality check and acknowledge that (with the exception of a few) our squad is piss poor and should set their expectations lower whilst our best players are out injured. Without those players, we are a poor Championship team on par with the likes of Blackburn, Sheffield Weds, Stoke (we're clearly not as good as Hull, Swansea or Brentford)...but with those players fit, then we are capable of making the playoffs.

Also note that Bruce had a fully fit squad at the start of the season which included Grealish and Axel...he still couldn't get a tune out of them, lost his job and we'd most likely be in a relegation scrap if he was still here. It wasn't perfect due to individual errors and mistakes, but Smith brought about an instant improvement in performances, style of play and results which has only declined since losing those key players.

At some point we have to stop this managerial merry go round at Villa Park, and you can't crucify Smith so soon after inheriting the shambles of a squad that has been left on his doorstep by his predecessors. There will be a big clear out in the summer, and the only thing that matters between now and then is that the fans keep their shit together and be patient regardless of results. Short term thinking leads to long term problems.

I don't expect top 6 given that Grealish has missed half the season and most of our midfield are plodders. But having been given money to spend, surely the form has to improve under Smith? You wouldn't consider 1 or 2 wins between now and the rest of the season acceptable would you?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on February 16, 2019, 10:27:57 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on February 16, 2019, 09:51:18 PM
I don’t, but if we lost say 10 of our remaining games I’d be surprised if the owners retained confidence in the manager for the long-term.

We're having as poor a run as SB did around this time in 16/17. Of course different owners but I'd be amazed if DS wasn't manager in August.

Ever since the meeting in London in mid January and DS coming out straight afterwards saying average age of squad needed to come down suggests long term planning at long last.

Surely our lax transfer window also hinted the board weren't going all out for promotion? Remember we didn't replace Hogan or Bolasie when they left.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on February 16, 2019, 10:29:59 PM
That’s fine and I agree with a lot of that. However wouldn’t it be good considering Dean has a free hit, to try some different things. You, like me were probably at Reading & Brentford away, and those performances along with today make me question Dean. The team formation is not working so try something different, your the manager / head coach, have a new thought.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on February 16, 2019, 10:32:28 PM
2 wins in 12 is as bad as it got for SB in 16/17. I said if it's 2 wins from the last 27 to finis the season then there's very little chance he'll be here. Which there isn't.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on February 16, 2019, 10:33:10 PM
Thats his selected formation that he uses primarily. He's probably seeing which players can fit into it going forwards... not alot of them is the obvious answer.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 16, 2019, 10:36:07 PM
Watch Norwich's goal at Bolton. That's why you stick by a good idea, even during the lean times. Sensational football.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on February 16, 2019, 10:36:28 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on February 16, 2019, 10:32:28 PM
2 wins in 12 is as bad as it got for SB in 16/17. I said if it's 2 wins from the last 27 to finis the season then there's very little chance he'll be here. Which there isn't.

Well we've won two since mid December so figured at this point it was a similar run, infact this season to me is near identical to 16/17 considering we changed managers at similar times which gave us inital boost and we also have same dysfunctional squad (poor defence, unbalanced midfield, underachieving attack).

Then Kodj caught fire and we went on a very good run up to last 5 games. Don't expect same this time but I imagine we'll win a few in March and April when we play likes of Bolton and Rotherham. 10th on 62 points feels about right.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on February 16, 2019, 10:40:43 PM
Quote from: Ads on February 16, 2019, 10:36:07 PM
Watch Norwich's goal at Bolton. That's why you stick by a good idea, even during the lean times. Sensational football.

And I really, really hope that’s us next season, and fair play to you Ads, I’m just not sure it will be
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: XXVilla on February 16, 2019, 10:44:02 PM
Quote from: Three Spires Villa on February 16, 2019, 10:40:43 PM
Quote from: Ads on February 16, 2019, 10:36:07 PM
Watch Norwich's goal at Bolton. That's why you stick by a good idea, even during the lean times. Sensational football.

And I really, really hope that’s us next season, and fair play to you Ads, I’m just not sure it will be

Norwich were 'The Mighty Reds YNWA' last year. There’s always hope
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on February 16, 2019, 10:45:20 PM
Of course there is, and my hope is that I am very wrong and we win the league next season
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: adrenachrome on February 16, 2019, 10:46:23 PM
Quote from: Three Spires Villa on February 16, 2019, 10:29:59 PM
That’s fine and I agree with a lot of that. However wouldn’t it be good considering Dean has a free hit, to try some different things. You, like me were probably at Reading & Brentford away, and those performances along with today make me question Dean. The team formation is not working so try something different, your the manager / head coach, have a new thought.

If he has been told to ship most of them out if he needs to, how should he best go about so doing? Think about it for a moment; the transition is going to be painful.

Bolassie's abrupt departure has made things clear for much of the squad. I don't think that was planned, but it is a done deal now.  Our most likely prospects from the youth team have been sent out on loan which indicates that we are building for next season.

We are a club that his been in a state of self-perpetuating flux for many years, and we have to stop it at some point.




Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on February 16, 2019, 10:49:57 PM
Maybe some of our prospects should have stopped at the club, and been coached and given game time so they are exactly as the manager wants them for next season. Now there’s a crazy idea!!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on February 16, 2019, 10:53:15 PM
How does 1 win in 19 games between 27th Dec and April 17th sound ? Anyone care to guess which of our former managers did that ? 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on February 16, 2019, 10:53:16 PM
I'd be hoping that Suso has sent them out to teams that play similar styles to what we intend to become.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on February 16, 2019, 10:55:32 PM
Quote from: Three Spires Villa on February 16, 2019, 10:49:57 PM
Maybe some of our prospects should have stopped at the club, and been coached and given game time so they are exactly as the manager wants them for next season. Now there’s a crazy idea!!

That's why Andre Green has come back.

The others imo not ready, RHM and O'Hare should've gone out on loan last season so I think they're a year behind in their development so loans should do them good and then we'll see what they're like in pre season as next season will be make-or-break you suspect.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on February 16, 2019, 11:01:31 PM
I like Andre Green but don't think he's any good.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: adrenachrome on February 16, 2019, 11:02:31 PM
Quote from: Ads on February 16, 2019, 10:36:07 PM
Watch Norwich's goal at Bolton. That's why you stick by a good idea, even during the lean times. Sensational football.

Watch their recent game at Elland Road which was even more impressive.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ASHTONVILLA on February 16, 2019, 11:09:11 PM
Quote from: Ads on February 16, 2019, 10:36:07 PM
Watch Norwich's goal at Bolton. That's why you stick by a good idea, even during the lean times. Sensational football.

You could probably list more clubs that stuck with managers and it got worse. We need to see signs of a plan, of players improving and of good purchases. So far Smith has been abject, his impact is similar to that of Garde except Smith has had the thick end of £10m to spend.

We cant just trust if enough time is given the manager will come good, look at Lambert, Bruce, McCleish. You can't just cite Fergusson took 7 years at Man U to win anything. There are plenty of examples of clubs that chop and change managers until they get it right that do very well. Look at Wolves for instance, do you think their fans wish they had given Zenga or Lambert more time? If no improvement happens in the next 4-5 games we need to get rid.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on February 16, 2019, 11:14:16 PM
Apart from this time we aren't just changing the manager. We are changing the whole ethos of the club. This is not a quick fix, especially with the current group of plodders we have to select from.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on February 16, 2019, 11:18:29 PM
Quote from: ASHTONVILLA on February 16, 2019, 11:09:11 PM
Quote from: Ads on February 16, 2019, 10:36:07 PM
Watch Norwich's goal at Bolton. That's why you stick by a good idea, even during the lean times. Sensational football.

You could probably list more clubs that stuck with managers and it got worse. We need to see signs of a plan, of players improving and of good purchases. So far Smith has been abject, his impact is similar to that of Garde except Smith has had the thick end of £10m to spend.

We cant just trust if enough time is given the manager will come good, look at Lambert, Bruce, McCleish. You can't just cite Fergusson took 7 years at Man U to win anything. There are plenty of examples of clubs that chop and change managers until they get it right that do very well. Look at Wolves for instance, do you think their fans wish they had given Zenga or Lambert more time? If no improvement happens in the next 4-5 games we need to get rid.

And get killed in the rush of top-quality applicants for a job where one manager out of the previous five will have lasted more than a year.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on February 16, 2019, 11:24:24 PM
Quote from: aj2k77 on February 16, 2019, 11:01:31 PM
I like Andre Green but don't think he's any good.

All debatable but undeniable he's much more advanced in his career than RHM or O'Hare given his loan was with a club who were at the time top of league 1.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: rougegorge on February 16, 2019, 11:40:38 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on February 16, 2019, 11:18:29 PM
Quote from: ASHTONVILLA on February 16, 2019, 11:09:11 PM
Quote from: Ads on February 16, 2019, 10:36:07 PM
Watch Norwich's goal at Bolton. That's why you stick by a good idea, even during the lean times. Sensational football.

You could probably list more clubs that stuck with managers and it got worse. We need to see signs of a plan, of players improving and of good purchases. So far Smith has been abject, his impact is similar to that of Garde except Smith has had the thick end of £10m to spend.

We cant just trust if enough time is given the manager will come good, look at Lambert, Bruce, McCleish. You can't just cite Fergusson took 7 years at Man U to win anything. There are plenty of examples of clubs that chop and change managers until they get it right that do very well. Look at Wolves for instance, do you think their fans wish they had given Zenga or Lambert more time? If no improvement happens in the next 4-5 games we need to get rid.

And get killed in the rush of top-quality applicants for a job where one manager out of the previous five will have lasted more than a year.
I agree with Ashtonvilla about managers.
Also, it's easy enough to find an example to fit an argument for one way or the other. For example, Watford have done ok and actually hiring and firing has worked very well for them.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on February 16, 2019, 11:43:28 PM
And the reason why Watfords model works so well is because of there back room set up and there relationship with other clubs, which is the way we are attempting to go now. Sacking the manager at the first sign of a bad run is not how Watford began that model.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: rougegorge on February 17, 2019, 12:12:43 AM
Their relationship with other clubs was due to the Pozzo family buying up clubs and I don't think that's what we are planning.

Their model may have begun differently but over the last few years it does involve the hire and fire approach. They readily get rid of managers once they evaluate that the club could do better or if their manager has a poor run of results like Flores and Mazzarri.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ketzster on February 17, 2019, 12:23:32 AM
But these performances are new level low bad, and it's not as though it's a couple of games. Yes of course sitting at Chelsea through all 8 goals was awful but they had Hazard, Lampard, etc, whch is incomparable to what Wigan put out six weeks ago against us. This is far, far worse.

14 games is a long run for performances of this particular level of to go on for. There have been no glimmers of hope or anything to latch onto. To go into Wigan away using the same formation after the Swansea cup game seemed silly at the time, but to then play the Hull game with the same formation and so on, and so on. People say he needs his own players, but you can't go through a whole season using only one tactic if you want to be successful. Teams will work you out and it's too easy to prepare for. We sign a load of players to play this 4-3-3, one or two get injured, and we're stuffed again next season. It's not stupid to say that because the evidence is there from this season to show he can't handle it. And that has to be considered when it comes to deciding whether he should be given time. So far he's failing massively. The players might well have their faults but they are not THIS bad.

And people say no short term fix is good. Well you're a lot better off getting promoted and coming back down because you get the parachute payments again. Get promoted with a short term fix if needs be (just because Bruce didn't work doesn't mean somebody else might not), then look to do the rebuild and change the philosophy of the club, not go for a long term solution with a manager who evidently isn't up to the job and is currently cementing us as a lower end of the championship side. Crystal Palace took 4 weeks to sack De Boer when they realised they'd got it wrong. We have got this one wrong, and there is no point giving the wrong person time. Yes the merry go round of Villa managers needs to stop, but only when we find the right person, and that is looking more certain that that person isn't Dean Smith



Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OzVilla on February 17, 2019, 12:31:53 AM
I think Smith needs time to get the squad he wants. He has a philosophy and granted that isn’t working with this squad at the moment but I think he and the owners realise that long term we need to identify a playing style and have some stability and buy in right across the squad. This squad is simply not fit for purpose right now. There are square pegs and round holes everywhere.

I’m expecting they’ll be a lot of changes by the the start of next season and I’m happy to give him that time then see how we are after 12 games. I’m hating this season but still quite excited for next, especially as most of the dross we have will finally have been binned.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on February 17, 2019, 12:35:39 AM
Who do you suggest Ketzster?  Who has that magic formula of capable, available, willing?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on February 17, 2019, 12:49:29 AM
It would be massively foolish to get rid of him now without truly giving him an opportunity to mould his own squad.

Brentford didn’t just happen. It took time and bringing in the right types of player and what it showed is as a club you don’t need to break the bank. Smith needs time to completely overhaul the playing staff. What he’s got now clearly isn’t working. Hopefully for all concerned it is revealing a path forward, the players he needs to clear out along with what he will need in replacement.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KRS on February 17, 2019, 01:23:02 AM
Quote from: Ketzster on February 17, 2019, 12:23:32 AM
But these performances are new level low bad, and it's not as though it's a couple of games. Yes of course sitting at Chelsea through all 8 goals was awful but they had Hazard, Lampard, etc, whch is incomparable to what Wigan put out six weeks ago against us. This is far, far worse.

14 games is a long run for performances of this particular level of to go on for. There have been no glimmers of hope or anything to latch onto. To go into Wigan away using the same formation after the Swansea cup game seemed silly at the time, but to then play the Hull game with the same formation and so on, and so on. People say he needs his own players, but you can't go through a whole season using only one tactic if you want to be successful. Teams will work you out and it's too easy to prepare for. We sign a load of players to play this 4-3-3, one or two get injured, and we're stuffed again next season. It's not stupid to say that because the evidence is there from this season to show he can't handle it. And that has to be considered when it comes to deciding whether he should be given time. So far he's failing massively. The players might well have their faults but they are not THIS bad.

And people say no short term fix is good. Well you're a lot better off getting promoted and coming back down because you get the parachute payments again. Get promoted with a short term fix if needs be (just because Bruce didn't work doesn't mean somebody else might not), then look to do the rebuild and change the philosophy of the club, not go for a long term solution with a manager who evidently isn't up to the job and is currently cementing us as a lower end of the championship side. Crystal Palace took 4 weeks to sack De Boer when they realised they'd got it wrong. We have got this one wrong, and there is no point giving the wrong person time. Yes the merry go round of Villa managers needs to stop, but only when we find the right person, and that is looking more certain that that person isn't Dean Smith
No. Wrong on so many of your points.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KRS on February 17, 2019, 01:44:16 AM
So on the basis that most of the following are shit, old, slow and not fit to where the shirt...

Whelan (out of contract)
Jedinak (out of contract)
Hutton (out of contract)
Taylor (out of contract)
Hourihane
Adomah
Kodjia
Elmo
BB
El Ghazi (loan)

Who should Smith pick to fill in the blanks, given the injuries and bans...


Banned/Injured:
SJM
Grealish
Carroll (loan)
Lansbury
Axel (loan)
Davis
Richards (presumed dead)

Out on loan (for those that keep asking why O'Hare and RHM aren't given a chance):
O'Hare
RHM
Bree
Hogan
Clark
Fat Ross
RDL (out of contract?)
Gardner (out of contract?)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 17, 2019, 01:59:12 AM
That’s the point KRS, take  4 from the bottom deck including Jack and that looks like a team.
Take any 4 from the top and it looks like a defeat.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KRS on February 17, 2019, 02:03:16 AM
Exactly...and I agree. I’m just putting it out there in black and white so those criticising Smith for not changing the team or formation can see the clusterfuck dilemma that Smith has.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on February 17, 2019, 02:21:55 AM
You forgot El Ghazi, Davis and Micah. Loads of great options!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KRS on February 17, 2019, 02:23:10 AM
Good point well made...I'll add to the list!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: adrenachrome on February 17, 2019, 02:30:31 AM
Quote from: KRS on February 17, 2019, 02:03:16 AM
Exactly...and I agree. I’m just putting it out there in black and white so those criticising Smith for not changing the team or formation can see the clusterfuck dilemma that Smith has.

Yes. We have to believe he is planning for next season, but it's difficult to come out and say it for fairly obvious reasons. Quite a few of us thought the season was over after the result at Brentford but there is no way that that the club could admit that.

It is going to be a quite difficult period for DS if he needs to keep the fan base onside.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KRS on February 17, 2019, 02:43:34 AM
Yep the next 2 games (Stoke and Derby) in particular are bordering on mission impossible for Smith to get any points with SJM out and none of the injured players expected to make a return. Hopefully we'll be in better shape for the Blose game at the Sty.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KevinGage on February 17, 2019, 02:46:12 AM
Quote from: Ketzster on February 17, 2019, 12:23:32 AM
But these performances are new level low bad, and it's not as though it's a couple of games. Yes of course sitting at Chelsea through all 8 goals was awful but they had Hazard, Lampard, etc, whch is incomparable to what Wigan put out six weeks ago against us. This is far, far worse.

14 games is a long run for performances of this particular level of to go on for. There have been no glimmers of hope or anything to latch onto. To go into Wigan away using the same formation after the Swansea cup game seemed silly at the time, but to then play the Hull game with the same formation and so on, and so on. People say he needs his own players, but you can't go through a whole season using only one tactic if you want to be successful. Teams will work you out and it's too easy to prepare for. We sign a load of players to play this 4-3-3, one or two get injured, and we're stuffed again next season. It's not stupid to say that because the evidence is there from this season to show he can't handle it. And that has to be considered when it comes to deciding whether he should be given time. So far he's failing massively. The players might well have their faults but they are not THIS bad.

And people say no short term fix is good. Well you're a lot better off getting promoted and coming back down because you get the parachute payments again. Get promoted with a short term fix if needs be (just because Bruce didn't work doesn't mean somebody else might not), then look to do the rebuild and change the philosophy of the club, not go for a long term solution with a manager who evidently isn't up to the job and is currently cementing us as a lower end of the championship side. Crystal Palace took 4 weeks to sack De Boer when they realised they'd got it wrong. We have got this one wrong, and there is no point giving the wrong person time. Yes the merry go round of Villa managers needs to stop, but only when we find the right person, and that is looking more certain that that person isn't Dean Smith

I'd say a lot of that is fair.

I'm not at the stage where I want Smith gone. But you don't get an extended period of playing this way with no consequences.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ROBBO on February 17, 2019, 04:31:06 AM
I wish he would just come out and tell it as it is.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LowerNorthStand on February 17, 2019, 07:07:20 AM
Smith has a hell of a tough job ahead of him. These are ALL the players who are out of contract on 20.06.19 according to transfermarkt.com

Bunn
Steer
-Hutton
-Elphick
Richards
-Hause (Loan)
-Mings (Loan)
-Tuanzebe (Loan)
-Whelan
Jedinak

-Ghazi (Loan)
Carroll (Loan)

-Abraham (Loan)

So at least half the current starting team will be gone. And most of the defence.

I think this could be a blessing in disguise but it could potentially get even worse if we cant get/afford better players to come in to replace this lot.


Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OzVilla on February 17, 2019, 07:21:34 AM
Better players? I’m happy to see all of those players we own leaving, while we have options on Hause, Ming’s and Carrol.

Add ElHam, Hogan, Angela, Hourihane and Fat Ross and rebuild the foundations.

Sure a massive job but we all knew that.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on February 17, 2019, 07:31:55 AM
This is a crisis on the same scale as we faced when Vic Crowe was replaced as manager.  We need the same qualities from Dean Smith as those displayed by Ron Saunders.  Dean must not crumble.  There is no quick or easy solution to the mess we are in but the rebuild must start now.  If we wait until the summer to start the reconstruction we will face another season of playing catch up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on February 17, 2019, 07:38:07 AM
everyone keeps failing to mention we also own Tishbola. presumably he still has a year left on his contract come June? Isn't RDL's contract up in the summer too?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 17, 2019, 07:48:50 AM
Sack Smith, install 3rd manager. Watch him flounder with the diabolical midfield options. Watch him win one in 6, sack him appoint 4th manager, last 5 games. Sack him. Appoint new manager in summer. Pot bare for transfers owing to compensation, poor start, sack him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on February 17, 2019, 08:08:28 AM
Quote from: Ads on February 17, 2019, 07:48:50 AM
Sack Smith, install 3rd manager. Watch him flounder with the diabolical midfield options. Watch him win one in 6, sack him appoint 4th manager, last 5 games. Sack him. Appoint new manager in summer. Pot bare for transfers owing to compensation, poor start, sack him.

That sounds like the pundits on TV and radio, on your basis you never sack anyone. At some point a manager, not talking about DS, has to go, what are your tipping points, after a relegation, after 1 win in 20, after 5 seasons of treading water?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dazvillain on February 17, 2019, 08:17:13 AM
Quote from: KRS on February 17, 2019, 02:43:34 AM
Yep the next 2 games (Stoke and Derby) in particular are bordering on mission impossible for Smith to get any points with SJM out and none of the injured players expected to make a return. Hopefully we'll be in better shape for the Blose game at the Sty.
Not for any footballing brain educated fan it won’t be although it can’t be publicised by him or club. Let’s judge after new owners, ceo, director of football, DS have all had their first summer window together
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 17, 2019, 08:19:23 AM
I'm saying wanting a manager sacked after 1 win in 6 is a ridiculous position. Trying to defend that with hyperbolic nonsense about the worst ever performance you'd seen is ridiculous.

Two managers aren't getting much out of this squad, and squad is too kind a description for the rabble. Most of us don't want a dozen or so at the club and yet if nobody is back from injury, despite my calls for him to be radical, he has Hourihane, Whelan and Jedinak as senior players to choose to stock that central midfield.

How do you reconcile a desire for a complete sea change in thinking, to implement a style so abstract from what Bruce had and then decide after 1 win 6 that's enough. It's nonsense. It isn't good enough at the moment, but look at what we have for Stoke and tell me which manager is supposed to get something out of those three options. We all seem to agree we're a tired, old and slow side on and off the ball. There's no magic manager coming in to wave their wand and get them playing football we want without time and fresh blood.

Certainly it's got to improve and he's got to do something different short term, hopefully injuries healing up will allow him that or the emergence of Ramsey.

I agree with SHQ assessment of where we'll more than likely finish, so I don't think we'll be in some 1 win in 20 position. Give him the summer, pre-season and let's have the courage to back this idea we have, as seems like a good one. Let's not revisit the stupidity of 2011 again.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on February 17, 2019, 08:35:27 AM
Agree with pretty much all of that Ads, especially the need to be radical.

Where the deepest problem lies is that so much needs to be done I can't see it being done (to our satisfaction) in one summer.  That in turn throws up the strong possibility of a mixed start to the season and all that brings.  We, the fans  have had so much to suck up over the last ten years DS will not get the supporters' indefinite support and the cycle of discontent starts all over again.

I suspect a staged recovery might be attempted for at least one season during which we become much more physical and defence orientated.  One way or another we shall not, I fear, see much of The Beautiful Game from Villa any time soon.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Allan C on February 17, 2019, 08:35:43 AM
Quote from: KRS on February 17, 2019, 01:44:16 AM
So on the basis that most of the following are shit, old, slow and not fit to where the shirt...

Whelan (out of contract)
Jedinak (out of contract)
Hutton (out of contract)
Taylor (out of contract)
Hourihane
Adomah
Kodjia
Elmo
BB
El Ghazi (loan)

Who should Smith pick to fill in the blanks, given the injuries and bans...

  • Kalanic
  • Hause (loan)
  • Mings (loan)
  • Elphick (out of contract)
  • ?
  • Green
  • Ramsey
  • ?
  • ?
  • ?
  • Abraham

Banned/Injured:
SJM
Grealish
Carroll (loan)
Lansbury
Axel (loan)
Davis
Richards (presumed dead)

Out on loan (for those that keep asking why O'Hare and RHM aren't given a chance):
O'Hare
RHM
Bree
Hogan
Clark
Fat Ross
RDL (out of contract?)
Gardner (out of contract?)
Brilliant post  I just hope that the people on here who keep harping on about Smith “getting more from the squad” have a reality check
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rigadon on February 17, 2019, 08:36:35 AM
I am starting to come around to the opinion that some on here have been stating for a little while, in that we need to start building now for next season.  I want to see some more of the younger players in the match day squad and team.  I want to see Smith try some ideas out and I'm prepared to lose some games in the process.  What I have zero desire to watch is more of the same.  If he does that, he will lose me a bit i'm afraid. 

To say that this season is pretty much over in terms of promotion is probably about right at this stage.   
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Des Little on February 17, 2019, 08:43:02 AM
As far as this season goes, the way I see it is we have one remaining objective, and that is not to lose at Blues. Other than that, use the remaining games to give some of the younger lads a chance. That’s it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on February 17, 2019, 08:44:17 AM
We’ve sacked managers before after a few games RD Matteo, Garde and it didn’t work

We’ve given managers time to build and rebuild Lambert, Bruce and it didn’t work

there is no guarantee of something working by sticking by a particular formula you just have to try and land on the right manager in the first place
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on February 17, 2019, 08:57:16 AM
And it helps if the manager is a lucky one.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: myf on February 17, 2019, 09:06:54 AM
Purslow was quite clear that Smith was appointed for the long-term rebuild. he'll look foolish if we sack him before next season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on February 17, 2019, 09:07:13 AM
Quote from: brian green on February 17, 2019, 08:57:16 AM
And it helps if the manager is a lucky one.

Probably the most important ingredient
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 17, 2019, 09:13:09 AM
Quote from: myf on February 17, 2019, 09:06:54 AM
Purslow was quite clear that Smith was appointed for the long-term rebuild. he'll look foolish if we sack him before next season.

Again though this all depends on what Smith does in the next few months. I get the arguments on the squad, but we can’t simply continue to play dreadfully and lose and just write it off. Dean needs to show we are progressing towards the summer. We’re not going to replace the entire squad, so it’s important that those left don’t develop a culture where losing is shrugged off and accepted.

I hope when Jack comes back it improves things, but there’s a probably a chance he’ll leave in the summer, particularly if he doesn’t feel we’ve got a bloody good chance of going up. We need to be able to manage when he’s not here.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dave P on February 17, 2019, 09:13:50 AM
Quote from: Three Spires Villa on February 17, 2019, 08:08:28 AM
Quote from: Ads on February 17, 2019, 07:48:50 AM
Sack Smith, install 3rd manager. Watch him flounder with the diabolical midfield options. Watch him win one in 6, sack him appoint 4th manager, last 5 games. Sack him. Appoint new manager in summer. Pot bare for transfers owing to compensation, poor start, sack him.

That sounds like the pundits on TV and radio, on your basis you never sack anyone. At some point a manager, not talking about DS, has to go, what are your tipping points, after a relegation, after 1 win in 20, after 5 seasons of treading water?

The tipping point is certainly not after 4 months and no summer.  Sacking Smith now serves no logical purpose.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on February 17, 2019, 09:31:37 AM
it doesn't but questions have to be asked if by the end of the season, we have only won two or three more games. Who knows we might do a mini Fulham an win all our remaining fixtures. If Bristol City and win eight on the bounce...
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: colin69 on February 17, 2019, 09:31:39 AM
Far too early to be talking about sacking Smith, but the performances really are awful at the moment.

He really doesn’t have much to choose from as we have so many out on loan but we need to see something positive soon don’t we?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on February 17, 2019, 09:36:09 AM
well here's something Tshibola's still ours for another year!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Des Little on February 17, 2019, 09:47:50 AM
Quote from: mr underhill on February 17, 2019, 09:31:37 AM
it doesn't but questions have to be asked if by the end of the season, we have only won two or three more games. Who knows we might do a mini Fulham an win all our remaining fixtures. If Bristol City and win eight on the bounce...

Either you’re on it very, very early or still on it from last night. Either way, put it down sir!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on February 17, 2019, 09:49:32 AM
Quote from: Dave P on February 17, 2019, 09:13:50 AM
Quote from: Three Spires Villa on February 17, 2019, 08:08:28 AM
Quote from: Ads on February 17, 2019, 07:48:50 AM
Sack Smith, install 3rd manager. Watch him flounder with the diabolical midfield options. Watch him win one in 6, sack him appoint 4th manager, last 5 games. Sack him. Appoint new manager in summer. Pot bare for transfers owing to compensation, poor start, sack him.

That sounds like the pundits on TV and radio, on your basis you never sack anyone. At some point a manager, not talking about DS, has to go, what are your tipping points, after a relegation, after 1 win in 20, after 5 seasons of treading water?

The tipping point is certainly not after 4 months and no summer.  Sacking Smith now serves no logical purpose.

Quite agree, I do not want Smith sacked. I would like him to win some games, or as the season has faded away, try something diffrent, in terms of play. Personally, for what its worth, I dont think he can be called until this time next year. I am worried though that as we approach a fourth season in the Championship, we are going to get stuck here. I guess its up to the owners in the summer if they think Dean has done enough, with the players he has got.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on February 17, 2019, 09:56:40 AM
Put what down Des? I didn't realize H&V had morphed into the Labour Party where any criticism  resulted in deselection. The facts are simple, managers are judged on results. Dean isn't getting any, ergo he starts to or he goes. And a final word on my going home at half time - it had nothing to do with the M6 . It had everything to do with me having enough of the utterly predictable rubbish on offer. It's the Villa bound journey I was referring to, which is always stressful, less so on the way home.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on February 17, 2019, 09:58:47 AM
I think he probably should have tried El Ghazi through the  middle when he took Hourihane off. I wonder if he gave Ramsey minutes on the pitch knowing that McGinn was going to be missing next week? To be honest, I can't remember when he got booked. The ref got his card out a few too many times yesterday, he was useless.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 17, 2019, 09:58:48 AM
Quote from: mr underhill on February 17, 2019, 09:56:40 AM
Put what down Des? I didn't realize H&V had morphed into the Labour Party where any criticism  resulted in deselection. The facts are simple, managers are judged on results. Dean isn't getting any, ergo he starts to or he goes. And a final word on my going home at half time - it had nothing to do with the M6 . It had everything to do with me having enough of the utterly predictable rubbish on offer. It's the Villa bound journey I was referring to, which is always stressful, less so on the way home.

I think it was just a harmless joke about being a bit drunk, in relation to the comment about winning all the remaining games.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 17, 2019, 09:59:59 AM
Quote from: Clampy on February 17, 2019, 09:58:47 AM
I think he probably should have tried El Ghazi through the  middle when he took Hourihane off. I wonder if he gave Ramsey minutes on the pitch knowing that McGinn was going to be missing next week? To be honest, I can't remember when he got booked. The ref got his card out a few too many times yesterday, he was useless.

It was after that spell when McGinn tackled about three of their players in succession.  In which he won the ball cleanly three times, and at no time committed a foul.  You're right, the ref was absolutely dire.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on February 17, 2019, 10:04:42 AM
Des was only gently pulling your leg Mr U. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on February 17, 2019, 10:05:12 AM
Quote from: Risso on February 17, 2019, 09:59:59 AM
Quote from: Clampy on February 17, 2019, 09:58:47 AM
I think he probably should have tried El Ghazi through the  middle when he took Hourihane off. I wonder if he gave Ramsey minutes on the pitch knowing that McGinn was going to be missing next week? To be honest, I can't remember when he got booked. The ref got his card out a few too many times yesterday, he was useless.

It was after that spell when McGinn tackled about three of their players in succession.  In which he won the ball cleanly three times, and at no time committed a foul.  You're right, the ref was absolutely dire.

I remember the booking itself, just can't remember if it was after Ramsey came on or before. The Mings booking was ridiculous as well. It's not as if he kicked the ball away or anything. He was just showing frustration. He let off the high foot on one of our players which made all his other bookings look a bit saft.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 17, 2019, 10:08:47 AM
Quote from: Risso on February 17, 2019, 09:59:59 AM
Quote from: Clampy on February 17, 2019, 09:58:47 AM
I think he probably should have tried El Ghazi through the  middle when he took Hourihane off. I wonder if he gave Ramsey minutes on the pitch knowing that McGinn was going to be missing next week? To be honest, I can't remember when he got booked. The ref got his card out a few too many times yesterday, he was useless.

It was after that spell when McGinn tackled about three of their players in succession.  In which he won the ball cleanly three times, and at no time committed a foul.  You're right, the ref was absolutely dire.

A joke wasn't it? McGinn gets booked for a "reckless" tackle, yet a Stripey player goes in foot up, out of control and doesn't. They're utter donkeys the officials down here.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 17, 2019, 10:08:59 AM
It obviously goes without saying, but Smith needs Grealish back this week if possible.  A terrible midfield shorn of McGinn is going to be even worse for the next two games.  For all the talk of patience, bad results are like a rolling snowball, the criticism will get bigger the more they roll along, and the more we lose, the less patient people are going to be.  Things are bad at the moment, but think what they could be like if we don't win for another 4-5 matches.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 17, 2019, 10:10:11 AM
Quote from: Ads on February 17, 2019, 10:08:47 AM
Quote from: Risso on February 17, 2019, 09:59:59 AM
Quote from: Clampy on February 17, 2019, 09:58:47 AM
I think he probably should have tried El Ghazi through the  middle when he took Hourihane off. I wonder if he gave Ramsey minutes on the pitch knowing that McGinn was going to be missing next week? To be honest, I can't remember when he got booked. The ref got his card out a few too many times yesterday, he was useless.

It was after that spell when McGinn tackled about three of their players in succession.  In which he won the ball cleanly three times, and at no time committed a foul.  You're right, the ref was absolutely dire.

A joke wasn't it? McGinn gets booked for a "reckless" tackle, yet a Stripey player goes in foot up, out of control and doesn't. They're utter donkeys the officials down here.

Yep they're shockers to a man. That foot up challenge, in which he missed with his foot, so elbowed him in the head for good measure.  No booking.  Joke.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on February 17, 2019, 10:11:42 AM
Smith in his after match comments alluded to some of the decisions, without mentioning the ref. He's not the reason why we lost but he was utterly terrible.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ketzster on February 17, 2019, 10:16:20 AM
Quote from: KRS on February 17, 2019, 02:03:16 AM
Exactly...and I agree. I’m just putting it out there in black and white so those criticising Smith for not changing the team or formation can see the clusterfuck dilemma that Smith has.

But surely in those 14 games he could have tried Davis up front with Abraham for example. Or Kodjia and Abraham instead of keep sticking Kodjia out on the wing every time he comes on. Yes it might leave us a player short in midfield but as most of you think we only play with two there anyway why not at least try it? To say that Smith doesn’t have the option to change the formation simply isn’t true
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Marlon From Bearwood on February 17, 2019, 10:33:37 AM
Quote from: Ads on February 17, 2019, 10:08:47 AM
Quote from: Risso on February 17, 2019, 09:59:59 AM
Quote from: Clampy on February 17, 2019, 09:58:47 AM
I think he probably should have tried El Ghazi through the  middle when he took Hourihane off. I wonder if he gave Ramsey minutes on the pitch knowing that McGinn was going to be missing next week? To be honest, I can't remember when he got booked. The ref got his card out a few too many times yesterday, he was useless.

It was after that spell when McGinn tackled about three of their players in succession.  In which he won the ball cleanly three times, and at no time committed a foul.  You're right, the ref was absolutely dire.

A joke wasn't it? McGinn gets booked for a "reckless" tackle, yet a Stripey player goes in foot up, out of control and doesn't. They're utter donkeys the officials down here.

Dawson body checking Green in the first half after he’d knocked the ball past him was the most blatant yellow card offence you’ll see. No card given.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on February 17, 2019, 10:35:45 AM
I’ve not seen a replay but that challenge on Green in the first half looked a straight red at the time.

Thought Mings was a warranted card for dissent, as was Hause. JMs was a joke, he clearly played the ball and was in full control.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on February 17, 2019, 11:10:14 AM
Quote from: ozzjim on February 16, 2019, 06:37:15 PM
Smith is a passenger until the summer. Then he hits the driving seat with his own squad. Guardiola spoke last week about how hard it is to change a style of play. Stick with him, support him and see what happens next season.

Amen.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on February 17, 2019, 11:10:42 AM
Quote from: XXVilla on February 16, 2019, 06:39:18 PM
Quote from: ozzjim on February 16, 2019, 06:37:15 PM
Smith is a passenger until the summer. Then he hits the driving seat with his own squad. Guardiola spoke last week about how hard it is to change a style of play. Stick with him, support him and see what happens next season.

That was Guardiola though

The guy who wins things and knows what he's talking about?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on February 17, 2019, 11:19:58 AM
Quote from: LukeJames on February 16, 2019, 07:44:40 PM
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on February 16, 2019, 07:38:56 PM
Short of drafting in the U23s en masse, what can he do? If he did that, from what I've seen of those that have played, including today, they'd get ripped to bits every week. And then what? Cries of why does he let these kids get destroyed when we've got experienced pros on the bench?

Change the system? Why? We might as well have kept Bruce in that case. I'm assuming he was hired for a reason, and I bet it wasn't something as short term as seeing what he can get out of this rabble. If that was the case, we should've gone all out to get Pulis.

What we're seeing now isn't our future, it's the death throes of this sorry, inglorious decade. I'm certain of that.
I agree with every word.

Yep!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: DB on February 17, 2019, 11:32:39 AM
Quote from: Drummond on February 17, 2019, 11:19:58 AM
Quote from: LukeJames on February 16, 2019, 07:44:40 PM
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on February 16, 2019, 07:38:56 PM
Short of drafting in the U23s en masse, what can he do? If he did that, from what I've seen of those that have played, including today, they'd get ripped to bits every week. And then what? Cries of why does he let these kids get destroyed when we've got experienced pros on the bench?

Change the system? Why? We might as well have kept Bruce in that case. I'm assuming he was hired for a reason, and I bet it wasn't something as short term as seeing what he can get out of this rabble. If that was the case, we should've gone all out to get Pulis.

What we're seeing now isn't our future, it's the death throes of this sorry, inglorious decade. I'm certain of that.
I agree with every word.

Yep!

Agreed also. I would like to see something of progression before the end of the season to build on. Too many more performances like y-day and more will question if he is the ‘right’ man.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dave P on February 17, 2019, 12:25:14 PM
This time 2 years ago, we were at the end of a 10 game winless run that effectively ended our play off ambitions. Bruce was 4 months into the job and not many were writing him off. Why is this situation any different? In fact, I feel more confident for the future under our current regime.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on February 17, 2019, 12:29:18 PM
I don’t think anyone is seriously calling for him to be sacked. But this is a Villa forum so questions about the players, Dean, tactics and formations are what the forum is about. If some posters are worried about the recent performances and results, I understand that. Some might question if he’s right for the future. Only time will tell.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dave P on February 17, 2019, 12:31:40 PM
Quote from: Three Spires Villa on February 17, 2019, 12:29:18 PM
I don’t think anyone is seriously calling for him to be sacked.

Really? I’m seeing a lot of that. It’s fine to question him and his decisions but wanting him sacked is ludicrous.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on February 17, 2019, 12:35:23 PM
Quote from: Dave P on February 17, 2019, 12:31:40 PM
Quote from: Three Spires Villa on February 17, 2019, 12:29:18 PM
I don’t think anyone is seriously calling for him to be sacked.

Really? I’m seeing a lot of that. It’s fine to question him and his decisions but wanting him sacked is ludicrous.

Agree completely, it’s crazy after four months. I was interested at what point it changes.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on February 17, 2019, 01:20:32 PM
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on February 16, 2019, 07:38:56 PM
Short of drafting in the U23s en masse, what can he do? If he did that, from what I've seen of those that have played, including today, they'd get ripped to bits every week. And then what? Cries of why does he let these kids get destroyed when we've got experienced pros on the bench?

Change the system? Why? We might as well have kept Bruce in that case. I'm assuming he was hired for a reason, and I bet it wasn't something as short term as seeing what he can get out of this rabble. If that was the case, we should've gone all out to get Pulis.

What we're seeing now isn't our future, it's the death throes of this sorry, inglorious decade ...
I agree with your last sentence.
However I do think he could be trying different things - for example, Davis and Abraham upfront, with El Ghazi behind them and a MF three behind him.
Notwithstanding, the recent lack of energy and passion suggests to me that there is a swathe of players whose contracts are due to expire or who have been told are going to be offloaded, and they are just not putting in the effort required to compete at this level or who are not prepared to play to the Smith script.
close season should be really interesting.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: achilles on February 17, 2019, 01:22:04 PM
Unfortunately, it may even get worse this season but we just have to suck it and see it through.

Smith is not above criticism as his team selection showed yesterday, it is not working so why keep using it, try something else (i.e. 3-5-2, anything really, just mix it up), especially as he is supposed to be a coach.

Anyway I will judge him next season at the very earliest when he has had the opportunity to get his own players in and most of the dead wood has disappeared.
Stability is essential at this point in time and even remotely thinking of changing the manager is utter nonsense! UTV
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villa75 on February 17, 2019, 01:26:34 PM
He'll be here next season, at least for a while.

I've already seen enough to be sure that he won't be here long term though. He's not got it in him to take us back to where we want to be.

Looking at him lately, I think he knows it as well.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chris Smith on February 17, 2019, 01:47:10 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on February 17, 2019, 01:26:34 PM
He'll be here next season, at least for a while.

I've already seen enough to be sure that he won't be here long term though. He's not got it in him to take us back to where we want to be.

Looking at him lately, I think he knows it as well.

What have you detected from “looking at him” that gives you your insight?

Anyone who judges his long term prospects on trying to get a tune out of this bunch of misfits needs their bumps felt.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on February 17, 2019, 02:29:19 PM
Having mulled over the last shit result, my view is pretty much that his credentials as a good coach for the long term, based on ability to build a playing philosophy, probably still stand.

However it’s getting harder to ignore his apparent weaknesses in other areas that are also important, like motivating players, finding a way to win without his favoured line up and in game tactical changes.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: XXVilla on February 17, 2019, 02:50:57 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 17, 2019, 11:10:42 AM
Quote from: XXVilla on February 16, 2019, 06:39:18 PM
Quote from: ozzjim on February 16, 2019, 06:37:15 PM
Smith is a passenger until the summer. Then he hits the driving seat with his own squad. Guardiola spoke last week about how hard it is to change a style of play. Stick with him, support him and see what happens next season.

That was Guardiola though

The guy who wins things and knows what he's talking about?

Well yes exactly
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sirlordbaltimore on February 17, 2019, 02:52:37 PM
Quote from: achilles on February 17, 2019, 01:22:04 PM
Smith is not above criticism as his team selection showed yesterday, it is not working so why keep using it, try something else (i.e. 3-5-2, anything really, just mix it up), especially as he is supposed to be a coach.

Where would these mythical wing backs come from if we played 3-5-2 though ?

Because we sure as shit don't have any.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: XXVilla on February 17, 2019, 02:54:57 PM
Quote from: sirlordbaltimore on February 17, 2019, 02:52:37 PM
Quote from: achilles on February 17, 2019, 01:22:04 PM
Smith is not above criticism as his team selection showed yesterday, it is not working so why keep using it, try something else (i.e. 3-5-2, anything really, just mix it up), especially as he is supposed to be a coach.

Where would these mythical wing backs come from if we played 3-5-2 though ?

Because we sure as shit don't have any.

Gotta go 4-4-2 with McGinn out, but unfortunately we don’t have a middle 2 either
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SheffieldVillain on February 17, 2019, 02:55:11 PM
Quote from: XXVilla on February 17, 2019, 02:50:57 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 17, 2019, 11:10:42 AM
Quote from: XXVilla on February 16, 2019, 06:39:18 PM
Quote from: ozzjim on February 16, 2019, 06:37:15 PM
Smith is a passenger until the summer. Then he hits the driving seat with his own squad. Guardiola spoke last week about how hard it is to change a style of play. Stick with him, support him and see what happens next season.

That was Guardiola though

The guy who wins things and knows what he's talking about?

Well yes exactly

The Norwich sporting director said much the same thing as Guardiola the other day. That they could easily have binned their coach last season but they wanted to put in place a long term system beyond the current results so they kept him. Hasn't gone badly for them.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on February 17, 2019, 02:55:16 PM
Quote from: sirlordbaltimore on February 17, 2019, 02:52:37 PM
Quote from: achilles on February 17, 2019, 01:22:04 PM
Smith is not above criticism as his team selection showed yesterday, it is not working so why keep using it, try something else (i.e. 3-5-2, anything really, just mix it up), especially as he is supposed to be a coach.

Where would these mythical wing backs come from if we played 3-5-2 though ?

Because we sure as shit don't have any.

Yeah we probably have the makings of a decent 3-5-2, other than arguably the most important part of that formation.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VillaBoy_23 on February 17, 2019, 03:08:20 PM
The main thing that worries me about Smith is the guff he’s come out with in post match interviews. If he honestly thinks that some of the recent performances have been acceptable then he needs his eyes testing. I’m not expecting him to throw individuals under the bus but some balanced opinions about how certain aspects of our play aren’t good enough would be refreshing.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 17, 2019, 03:10:31 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on February 17, 2019, 02:55:16 PM
Quote from: sirlordbaltimore on February 17, 2019, 02:52:37 PM
Quote from: achilles on February 17, 2019, 01:22:04 PM
Smith is not above criticism as his team selection showed yesterday, it is not working so why keep using it, try something else (i.e. 3-5-2, anything really, just mix it up), especially as he is supposed to be a coach.

Where would these mythical wing backs come from if we played 3-5-2 though ?

Because we sure as shit don't have any.

Yeah we probably have the makings of a decent 3-5-2, other than arguably the most important part of that formation.

Elmo at a push could probably have a stab on the right side.  On the left though, nope, not happening.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brassneck on February 17, 2019, 04:05:19 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on February 17, 2019, 02:55:16 PM
Quote from: sirlordbaltimore on February 17, 2019, 02:52:37 PM
Quote from: achilles on February 17, 2019, 01:22:04 PM
Smith is not above criticism as his team selection showed yesterday, it is not working so why keep using it, try something else (i.e. 3-5-2, anything really, just mix it up), especially as he is supposed to be a coach.

Where would these mythical wing backs come from if we played 3-5-2 though ?

Because we sure as shit don't have any.

Yeah we probably have the makings of a decent 3-5-2, other than arguably the most important part of that formation.

Could the reasoning behind both Mings and Hause be with one eye on playing this formation in the future?

I struggled to see the logic of loaning both Mings and Hause but 3 at the back would explain it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villa75 on February 17, 2019, 04:18:54 PM
Quote from: Chris Smith on February 17, 2019, 01:47:10 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on February 17, 2019, 01:26:34 PM
He'll be here next season, at least for a while.

I've already seen enough to be sure that he won't be here long term though. He's not got it in him to take us back to where we want to be.

Looking at him lately, I think he knows it as well.

What have you detected from “looking at him” that gives you your insight?

Anyone who judges his long term prospects on trying to get a tune out of this bunch of misfits needs their bumps felt.

He looks like he hasn't got a clue what's going on, let alone now to change it.

If two players being absent is enough to expose his limitations to this degree, then he's not the manager most hoped for.

But, hey. Let him sign 18 of his own players and he'll have us playing like Brentford and finishing mid table.

I know it's only going to take another year or so of my life but, I can hardly wait.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brassneck on February 17, 2019, 04:25:34 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on February 17, 2019, 04:18:54 PM
Quote from: Chris Smith on February 17, 2019, 01:47:10 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on February 17, 2019, 01:26:34 PM
He'll be here next season, at least for a while.

I've already seen enough to be sure that he won't be here long term though. He's not got it in him to take us back to where we want to be.

Looking at him lately, I think he knows it as well.

What have you detected from “looking at him” that gives you your insight?

Anyone who judges his long term prospects on trying to get a tune out of this bunch of misfits needs their bumps felt.

He looks like he hasn't got a clue what's going on, let alone now to change it.

If two players being absent is enough to expose his limitations to this degree, then he's not the manager most hoped for.

But, hey. Let him sign 18 of his own players and he'll have us playing like Brentford and finishing mid table.

I know it's only going to take another year or so of my life but, I can hardly wait.

So who would YOU bring in then?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on February 17, 2019, 04:35:21 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on February 17, 2019, 04:18:54 PM
Quote from: Chris Smith on February 17, 2019, 01:47:10 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on February 17, 2019, 01:26:34 PM
He'll be here next season, at least for a while.

I've already seen enough to be sure that he won't be here long term though. He's not got it in him to take us back to where we want to be.

Looking at him lately, I think he knows it as well.

What have you detected from “looking at him” that gives you your insight?

Anyone who judges his long term prospects on trying to get a tune out of this bunch of misfits needs their bumps felt.

He looks like he hasn't got a clue what's going on, let alone now to change it.

If two players being absent is enough to expose his limitations to this degree, then he's not the manager most hoped for.

But, hey. Let him sign 18 of his own players and he'll have us playing like Brentford and finishing mid table.

I know it's only going to take another year or so of my life but, I can hardly wait.
Give it a rest will you? You've been relentlessly on Smith's case for quite a while now
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villa75 on February 17, 2019, 04:35:40 PM
Quote from: Brassneck on February 17, 2019, 04:25:34 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on February 17, 2019, 04:18:54 PM
Quote from: Chris Smith on February 17, 2019, 01:47:10 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on February 17, 2019, 01:26:34 PM
He'll be here next season, at least for a while.

I've already seen enough to be sure that he won't be here long term though. He's not got it in him to take us back to where we want to be.

Looking at him lately, I think he knows it as well.

What have you detected from “looking at him” that gives you your insight?

Anyone who judges his long term prospects on trying to get a tune out of this bunch of misfits needs their bumps felt.

He looks like he hasn't got a clue what's going on, let alone now to change it.

If two players being absent is enough to expose his limitations to this degree, then he's not the manager most hoped for.

But, hey. Let him sign 18 of his own players and he'll have us playing like Brentford and finishing mid table.

I know it's only going to take another year or so of my life but, I can hardly wait.

So who would YOU bring in then?

Ah. That old chestnut. The manager might not be up to it, but who would a random stranger put forward that's not as shit? And if you can't think of a name we should keep the guy who's not up to it.

It's not up to me. There are people at the club paid a lot more than my wage to decide who.

If you pushed me into a corner though, I would have to say, someone better. You know, someone who can cope with losing two players without everything turning to shit for two months.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 17, 2019, 04:36:25 PM
To be fair it IS the Dean Smith thread. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on February 17, 2019, 04:36:57 PM
Brendon Rodgers
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on February 17, 2019, 04:37:35 PM
He's got to show that he's got more in his locker than just sending the same formation out week after week and shuffling the deck chairs around a bit. If he can't and results continue towards the end of the season then he will be gone. Board room plans or not, no one can survive under the weight of huge, poor runs and performances.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villa75 on February 17, 2019, 04:40:36 PM
Quote from: The Edge on February 17, 2019, 04:35:21 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on February 17, 2019, 04:18:54 PM
Quote from: Chris Smith on February 17, 2019, 01:47:10 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on February 17, 2019, 01:26:34 PM
He'll be here next season, at least for a while.

I've already seen enough to be sure that he won't be here long term though. He's not got it in him to take us back to where we want to be.

Looking at him lately, I think he knows it as well.

What have you detected from “looking at him” that gives you your insight?

Anyone who judges his long term prospects on trying to get a tune out of this bunch of misfits needs their bumps felt.

He looks like he hasn't got a clue what's going on, let alone now to change it.

If two players being absent is enough to expose his limitations to this degree, then he's not the manager most hoped for.

But, hey. Let him sign 18 of his own players and he'll have us playing like Brentford and finishing mid table.

I know it's only going to take another year or so of my life but, I can hardly wait.
Give it a rest will you? You've been relentlessly on Smith's case for quite a while now


That's because he's had a playing shit "for quite a while".

You're blaming the wrong man here.

Plus, this being a Dean Smith thread, there'd be fuck all to talk about on here If we weren't allowed to post the truth about how shit we've been for two months.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 17, 2019, 04:41:42 PM
I'd quite like to see what he does with his own squad to be honest.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on February 17, 2019, 04:42:17 PM
That old chestnut - I can moan all I iike about something because this is a forum and I'm allowed to have my say on it, but when I get asked what I'd do instead it isn't my job.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villa75 on February 17, 2019, 04:55:30 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on February 17, 2019, 04:42:17 PM
That old chestnut - I can moan all I iike about something because this is a forum and I'm allowed to have my say on it, but when I get asked what I'd do instead it isn't my job.

True, on every single point. Well done.

But we're still left with a manager who's not doing the job we hoped he would. So we're no better off.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dave P on February 17, 2019, 04:56:56 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on February 17, 2019, 04:35:40 PM
Quote from: Brassneck on February 17, 2019, 04:25:34 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on February 17, 2019, 04:18:54 PM
Quote from: Chris Smith on February 17, 2019, 01:47:10 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on February 17, 2019, 01:26:34 PM
He'll be here next season, at least for a while.

I've already seen enough to be sure that he won't be here long term though. He's not got it in him to take us back to where we want to be.

Looking at him lately, I think he knows it as well.

What have you detected from “looking at him” that gives you your insight?

Anyone who judges his long term prospects on trying to get a tune out of this bunch of misfits needs their bumps felt.

He looks like he hasn't got a clue what's going on, let alone now to change it.

If two players being absent is enough to expose his limitations to this degree, then he's not the manager most hoped for.

But, hey. Let him sign 18 of his own players and he'll have us playing like Brentford and finishing mid table.

I know it's only going to take another year or so of my life but, I can hardly wait.

So who would YOU bring in then?

Ah. That old chestnut. The manager might not be up to it, but who would a random stranger put forward that's not as shit? And if you can't think of a name we should keep the guy who's not up to it.

It's not up to me. There are people at the club paid a lot more than my wage to decide who.

If you pushed me into a corner though, I would have to say, someone better. You know, someone who can cope with losing two players without everything turning to shit for two months.

I’m glad it’s not up to you to be fair as we’ll be changing our manager more often then our underwear.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sickbeggar on February 17, 2019, 04:59:33 PM
I'm still in the " inherited a shit squad, hasn't been able to change it" camp. Obviously if its still this bad next seaon that will change. I understand the other camp's viewpoint that the manager should be doing better with these players (although not the more delusional going for promotion lot). My arguement against that is we had a manager who had a reputation for moulding average/poor players into a promotion outfit up until October, and that's why Smith got the job..
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on February 17, 2019, 05:00:10 PM
Quote from: Dave P on February 17, 2019, 04:56:56 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on February 17, 2019, 04:35:40 PM
Quote from: Brassneck on February 17, 2019, 04:25:34 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on February 17, 2019, 04:18:54 PM
Quote from: Chris Smith on February 17, 2019, 01:47:10 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on February 17, 2019, 01:26:34 PM
He'll be here next season, at least for a while.

I've already seen enough to be sure that he won't be here long term though. He's not got it in him to take us back to where we want to be.

Looking at him lately, I think he knows it as well.

What have you detected from “looking at him” that gives you your insight?

Anyone who judges his long term prospects on trying to get a tune out of this bunch of misfits needs their bumps felt.

He looks like he hasn't got a clue what's going on, let alone now to change it.

If two players being absent is enough to expose his limitations to this degree, then he's not the manager most hoped for.

But, hey. Let him sign 18 of his own players and he'll have us playing like Brentford and finishing mid table.

I know it's only going to take another year or so of my life but, I can hardly wait.

So who would YOU bring in then?

Ah. That old chestnut. The manager might not be up to it, but who would a random stranger put forward that's not as shit? And if you can't think of a name we should keep the guy who's not up to it.

It's not up to me. There are people at the club paid a lot more than my wage to decide who.

If you pushed me into a corner though, I would have to say, someone better. You know, someone who can cope with losing two players without everything turning to shit for two months.

I’m glad it’s not up to you to be fair as we’ll be changing our manager more often then our underwear.
Once a month? That would be ridiculous
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villa75 on February 17, 2019, 05:01:03 PM
Quote from: Ads on February 17, 2019, 04:41:42 PM
I'd quite like to see what he does with his own squad to be honest.

You saw it, with Brentford.

Admittedly they didn't win all that many, and finished about mid table, but they often played good football whilst not winning very many.

Perhaps, us being Aston Villa, other teams will let us win a few more, when he's got his own squad and we're playing better football.

We can only hope.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dave P on February 17, 2019, 05:02:31 PM
Maybe we should go for a promotion specialist?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 17, 2019, 05:02:54 PM
I saw his Brentford play good football. I would hope we'd be able to attract a betyer quality of player generally than Brentford (although there are a few I like).
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Richard E on February 17, 2019, 05:04:26 PM
Quote from: Dave P on February 17, 2019, 05:02:31 PM
Maybe we should go for a promotion specialist?

Don Draper was good at promoting things. What’s he up to these days?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villa75 on February 17, 2019, 05:05:16 PM
Quote from: Dave P on February 17, 2019, 04:56:56 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on February 17, 2019, 04:35:40 PM
Quote from: Brassneck on February 17, 2019, 04:25:34 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on February 17, 2019, 04:18:54 PM
Quote from: Chris Smith on February 17, 2019, 01:47:10 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on February 17, 2019, 01:26:34 PM
He'll be here next season, at least for a while.

I've already seen enough to be sure that he won't be here long term though. He's not got it in him to take us back to where we want to be.

Looking at him lately, I think he knows it as well.

What have you detected from “looking at him” that gives you your insight?

Anyone who judges his long term prospects on trying to get a tune out of this bunch of misfits needs their bumps felt.

He looks like he hasn't got a clue what's going on, let alone now to change it.

If two players being absent is enough to expose his limitations to this degree, then he's not the manager most hoped for.

But, hey. Let him sign 18 of his own players and he'll have us playing like Brentford and finishing mid table.

I know it's only going to take another year or so of my life but, I can hardly wait.

So who would YOU bring in then?

Ah. That old chestnut. The manager might not be up to it, but who would a random stranger put forward that's not as shit? And if you can't think of a name we should keep the guy who's not up to it.

It's not up to me. There are people at the club paid a lot more than my wage to decide who.

If you pushed me into a corner though, I would have to say, someone better. You know, someone who can cope with losing two players without everything turning to shit for two months.

I’m glad it’s not up to you to be fair as we’ll be changing our manager more often then our underwear.

Again, the wrong man is being blamed here.

I'm not the one who keeps hiring managers that have us struggling, season after season.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on February 17, 2019, 05:09:29 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on February 17, 2019, 04:42:17 PM
That old chestnut - I can moan all I iike about something because this is a forum and I'm allowed to have my say on it, but when I get asked what I'd do instead it isn't my job.

Well I’m not a manager, or club director, I’m not employed to sort this out. To be honest when MON left Martin Jol was the answer, before Bruce Sean Dyche, before Dean Brendon Rodgers, there answers for you. Now who knows if any of them were available, I don’t& neither do most people. I don’t want another manager, but come on, if it’s poor, just say it’s poor.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sickbeggar on February 17, 2019, 05:17:08 PM
Was MON the answer? I think the question is easier to answer depending on the quality of players and money to buy them you have. A lot of people on here thought OGS was the answer, a lot of United fans think he is now but he certainly wasn't at Cardiff
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on February 17, 2019, 05:20:50 PM
I never said MON was the answer, I said Martin Jol, at that point in our history would have been a very good choice. If your post was replying to mine
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sickbeggar on February 17, 2019, 05:30:29 PM
Quote from: Three Spires Villa on February 17, 2019, 05:20:50 PM
I never said MON was the answer, I said Martin Jol, at that point in our history would have been a very good choice. If your post was replying to mine

Yes it was though i wasn't having a go. Just a general comment that the more money and better players you have, even a pretty average manager isn't going to get a team relegated. I think even Bruce could have threatened the top6 with the money MON had, and RDM did it with chelsea. It's when your down at our level that a good manager really makes a difference.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on February 17, 2019, 05:38:15 PM
Quote from: sickbeggar on February 17, 2019, 05:30:29 PM
Quote from: Three Spires Villa on February 17, 2019, 05:20:50 PM
I never said MON was the answer, I said Martin Jol, at that point in our history would have been a very good choice. If your post was replying to mine

Yes it was though i wasn't having a go. Just a general comment that the more money and better players you have, even a pretty average manager isn't going to get a team relegated. I think even Bruce could have threatened the top6 with the money MON had, and RDM did it with chelsea. It's when your down at our level that a good manager really makes a difference.

Yes I agree, and we all have opinions on managers who could have been good. I certainly don’t expect everyone to agree with the three options I mentioned. I’m just really confused as to what has happened, what is happening & what we bloody do next
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dazvillain on February 17, 2019, 05:40:51 PM
Quote from: Rigadon on February 17, 2019, 08:36:35 AM
I am starting to come around to the opinion that some on here have been stating for a little while, in that we need to start building now for next season.  I want to see some more of the younger players in the match day squad and team.  I want to see Smith try some ideas out and I'm prepared to lose some games in the process.  What I have zero desire to watch is more of the same.  If he does that, he will lose me a bit i'm afraid. 

To say that this season is pretty much over in terms of promotion is probably about right at this stage.   
Younger players of suitable quality are all out on loan.... hope they’re being meticulously watched as they could well be involved in starting 11 next August
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chris Smith on February 17, 2019, 05:44:43 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on February 17, 2019, 04:35:40 PM
Quote from: Brassneck on February 17, 2019, 04:25:34 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on February 17, 2019, 04:18:54 PM
Quote from: Chris Smith on February 17, 2019, 01:47:10 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on February 17, 2019, 01:26:34 PM
He'll be here next season, at least for a while.

I've already seen enough to be sure that he won't be here long term though. He's not got it in him to take us back to where we want to be.

Looking at him lately, I think he knows it as well.

What have you detected from “looking at him” that gives you your insight?

Anyone who judges his long term prospects on trying to get a tune out of this bunch of misfits needs their bumps felt.

He looks like he hasn't got a clue what's going on, let alone now to change it.

If two players being absent is enough to expose his limitations to this degree, then he's not the manager most hoped for.

But, hey. Let him sign 18 of his own players and he'll have us playing like Brentford and finishing mid table.

I know it's only going to take another year or so of my life but, I can hardly wait.

So who would YOU bring in then?

Ah. That old chestnut. The manager might not be up to it, but who would a random stranger put forward that's not as shit? And if you can't think of a name we should keep the guy who's not up to it.

It's not up to me. There are people at the club paid a lot more than my wage to decide who.

If you pushed me into a corner though, I would have to say, someone better. You know, someone who can cope with losing two players without everything turning to shit for two months.

It’s not up to you to decide if he’s the right man either but that doesn’t stop you banging on about it 50 times a day. Although “someone better” shows a level of insight Robbie Savage would be proud of.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: XXVilla on February 17, 2019, 05:44:56 PM
Quote from: The Edge on February 17, 2019, 04:35:21 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on February 17, 2019, 04:18:54 PM
Quote from: Chris Smith on February 17, 2019, 01:47:10 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on February 17, 2019, 01:26:34 PM
He'll be here next season, at least for a while.

I've already seen enough to be sure that he won't be here long term though. He's not got it in him to take us back to where we want to be.

Looking at him lately, I think he knows it as well.

What have you detected from “looking at him” that gives you your insight?

Anyone who judges his long term prospects on trying to get a tune out of this bunch of misfits needs their bumps felt.

He looks like he hasn't got a clue what's going on, let alone now to change it.

If two players being absent is enough to expose his limitations to this degree, then he's not the manager most hoped for.

But, hey. Let him sign 18 of his own players and he'll have us playing like Brentford and finishing mid table.

I know it's only going to take another year or so of my life but, I can hardly wait.
Give it a rest will you? You've been relentlessly on Smith's case for quite a while now

I doubt Dean is reading this and it’s affecting his performance. And why should you be all happy clappy when things at the moment are clearly dire, even though they may improve next season according to some of the reasoning on this forum? Which I don’t necessarily disagree with by the way. Plus it is a discussion forum...
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sickbeggar on February 17, 2019, 05:45:35 PM
Quote from: Three Spires Villa on February 17, 2019, 05:38:15 PM
Quote from: sickbeggar on February 17, 2019, 05:30:29 PM
Quote from: Three Spires Villa on February 17, 2019, 05:20:50 PM
I never said MON was the answer, I said Martin Jol, at that point in our history would have been a very good choice. If your post was replying to mine

Yes it was though i wasn't having a go. Just a general comment that the more money and better players you have, even a pretty average manager isn't going to get a team relegated. I think even Bruce could have threatened the top6 with the money MON had, and RDM did it with chelsea. It's when your down at our level that a good manager really makes a difference.

Yes I agree, and we all have opinions on managers who could have been good. I certainly don’t expect everyone to agree with the three options I mentioned. I’m just really confused as to what has happened, what is happening & what we bloody do next

Well yeah.... I put it down to a skinflint selling to an idiot selling to a fraud. If the new owners break that cycle then things will improve eventually, but most clubs that do well/bad mirror the people running them.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villa75 on February 17, 2019, 05:52:00 PM
Quote from: Chris Smith on February 17, 2019, 05:44:43 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on February 17, 2019, 04:35:40 PM
Quote from: Brassneck on February 17, 2019, 04:25:34 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on February 17, 2019, 04:18:54 PM
Quote from: Chris Smith on February 17, 2019, 01:47:10 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on February 17, 2019, 01:26:34 PM
He'll be here next season, at least for a while.

I've already seen enough to be sure that he won't be here long term though. He's not got it in him to take us back to where we want to be.

Looking at him lately, I think he knows it as well.

What have you detected from “looking at him” that gives you your insight?

Anyone who judges his long term prospects on trying to get a tune out of this bunch of misfits needs their bumps felt.

He looks like he hasn't got a clue what's going on, let alone now to change it.

If two players being absent is enough to expose his limitations to this degree, then he's not the manager most hoped for.

But, hey. Let him sign 18 of his own players and he'll have us playing like Brentford and finishing mid table.

I know it's only going to take another year or so of my life but, I can hardly wait.

So who would YOU bring in then?

Ah. That old chestnut. The manager might not be up to it, but who would a random stranger put forward that's not as shit? And if you can't think of a name we should keep the guy who's not up to it.

It's not up to me. There are people at the club paid a lot more than my wage to decide who.

If you pushed me into a corner though, I would have to say, someone better. You know, someone who can cope with losing two players without everything turning to shit for two months.

It’s not up to you to decide if he’s the right man either but that doesn’t stop you banging on about it 50 times a day. Although “someone better” shows a level of insight Robbie Savage would be proud of.

I remember you also being this 'precious' about anyone who criticised Bruce.

That turned out well, didn't it?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sickbeggar on February 17, 2019, 05:59:44 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on February 17, 2019, 05:52:00 PM
Quote from: Chris Smith on February 17, 2019, 05:44:43 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on February 17, 2019, 04:35:40 PM
Quote from: Brassneck on February 17, 2019, 04:25:34 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on February 17, 2019, 04:18:54 PM
Quote from: Chris Smith on February 17, 2019, 01:47:10 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on February 17, 2019, 01:26:34 PM
He'll be here next season, at least for a while.

I've already seen enough to be sure that he won't be here long term though. He's not got it in him to take us back to where we want to be.

Looking at him lately, I think he knows it as well.

What have you detected from “looking at him” that gives you your insight?

Anyone who judges his long term prospects on trying to get a tune out of this bunch of misfits needs their bumps felt.

He looks like he hasn't got a clue what's going on, let alone now to change it.

If two players being absent is enough to expose his limitations to this degree, then he's not the manager most hoped for.

But, hey. Let him sign 18 of his own players and he'll have us playing like Brentford and finishing mid table.

I know it's only going to take another year or so of my life but, I can hardly wait.

So who would YOU bring in then?

Ah. That old chestnut. The manager might not be up to it, but who would a random stranger put forward that's not as shit? And if you can't think of a name we should keep the guy who's not up to it.

It's not up to me. There are people at the club paid a lot more than my wage to decide who.

If you pushed me into a corner though, I would have to say, someone better. You know, someone who can cope with losing two players without everything turning to shit for two months.

It’s not up to you to decide if he’s the right man either but that doesn’t stop you banging on about it 50 times a day. Although “someone better” shows a level of insight Robbie Savage would be proud of.

I remember you also being this 'precious' about anyone who criticised Bruce.

That turned out well, didn't it?


There's supporting the wrong man for too long i agree, but its preferable to the oppostive where you get Smith out threads started by people who actually state in their opening gambit that they wanted him to arrive in the first place. After 4 months and you've totally turned against someone? I mean, the mind boggles frankly.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chris Smith on February 17, 2019, 06:04:35 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on February 17, 2019, 05:52:00 PM
Quote from: Chris Smith on February 17, 2019, 05:44:43 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on February 17, 2019, 04:35:40 PM
Quote from: Brassneck on February 17, 2019, 04:25:34 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on February 17, 2019, 04:18:54 PM
Quote from: Chris Smith on February 17, 2019, 01:47:10 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on February 17, 2019, 01:26:34 PM
He'll be here next season, at least for a while.

I've already seen enough to be sure that he won't be here long term though. He's not got it in him to take us back to where we want to be.

Looking at him lately, I think he knows it as well.

What have you detected from “looking at him” that gives you your insight?

Anyone who judges his long term prospects on trying to get a tune out of this bunch of misfits needs their bumps felt.

He looks like he hasn't got a clue what's going on, let alone now to change it.

If two players being absent is enough to expose his limitations to this degree, then he's not the manager most hoped for.

But, hey. Let him sign 18 of his own players and he'll have us playing like Brentford and finishing mid table.

I know it's only going to take another year or so of my life but, I can hardly wait.

So who would YOU bring in then?

Ah. That old chestnut. The manager might not be up to it, but who would a random stranger put forward that's not as shit? And if you can't think of a name we should keep the guy who's not up to it.

It's not up to me. There are people at the club paid a lot more than my wage to decide who.

If you pushed me into a corner though, I would have to say, someone better. You know, someone who can cope with losing two players without everything turning to shit for two months.

It’s not up to you to decide if he’s the right man either but that doesn’t stop you banging on about it 50 times a day. Although “someone better” shows a level of insight Robbie Savage would be proud of.

I remember you also being this 'precious' about anyone who criticised Bruce.

That turned out well, didn't it?

Then your memory is as defective as your analysis. I said he should go after the playoffs the problem was the club fell apart and there wasn’t anyone in place to do the hiring and firing.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 17, 2019, 06:06:54 PM
For every example of a Farke you can give, there's one from the other view point.  Take Leeds and Paul Heckingbottom.  Sacked after 4 months, I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that his replacement Bielsa is doing slightly better than he managed.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chinchilla Bathhouse on February 17, 2019, 06:10:46 PM
Quote from: XXVilla on February 17, 2019, 05:44:56 PM
Quote from: The Edge on February 17, 2019, 04:35:21 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on February 17, 2019, 04:18:54 PM
Quote from: Chris Smith on February 17, 2019, 01:47:10 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on February 17, 2019, 01:26:34 PM
He'll be here next season, at least for a while.

I've already seen enough to be sure that he won't be here long term though. He's not got it in him to take us back to where we want to be.

Looking at him lately, I think he knows it as well.

What have you detected from “looking at him” that gives you your insight?

Anyone who judges his long term prospects on trying to get a tune out of this bunch of misfits needs their bumps felt.

He looks like he hasn't got a clue what's going on, let alone now to change it.

If two players being absent is enough to expose his limitations to this degree, then he's not the manager most hoped for.

But, hey. Let him sign 18 of his own players and he'll have us playing like Brentford and finishing mid table.

I know it's only going to take another year or so of my life but, I can hardly wait.
Give it a rest will you? You've been relentlessly on Smith's case for quite a while now

I doubt Dean is reading this and it’s affecting his performance. And why should you be all happy clappy when things at the moment are clearly dire, even though they may improve next season according to some of the reasoning on this forum? Which I don’t necessarily disagree with by the way. Plus it is a discussion forum...

It is, but a good discussion involves listening as well as talking. There are some really good reasoned arguments on both sides here, but a particular couple of posters can't be bothered to read them. If they did they wouldn't need to keep repeating their same few tedious themes in a smart-arsed and sarcastic manner. Unless, of course, they're doing it wilfully to wind people up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sickbeggar on February 17, 2019, 06:12:56 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 17, 2019, 06:06:54 PM
For every example of a Farke you can give, there's one from the other view point.  Take Leeds and Paul Heckingbottom.  Sacked after 4 months, I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that his replacement Bielsa is doing slightly better than he managed.

That fair enough, but i wasn't a Smith fan and i'd give him more than 4 months. My problem was the guy who started it was! Now i didn't want Bruce in for a lot of reasons and as soon as the Bruce out bandwagon started i hopped on, but i'd feel a bit daft doing it if i'd championed him arriving in the first place. What does that say about your judgement or the life expectancy of the next manager you want in?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Allan C on February 17, 2019, 06:13:24 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on February 17, 2019, 04:18:54 PM
Quote from: Chris Smith on February 17, 2019, 01:47:10 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on February 17, 2019, 01:26:34 PM
He'll be here next season, at least for a while.

I've already seen enough to be sure that he won't be here long term though. He's not got it in him to take us back to where we want to be.

Looking at him lately, I think he knows it as well.

What have you detected from “looking at him” that gives you your insight?

Anyone who judges his long term prospects on trying to get a tune out of this bunch of misfits needs their bumps felt.

He looks like he hasn't got a clue what's going on, let alone now to change it.

If two players being absent is enough to expose his limitations to this degree, then he's not the manager most hoped for.

But, hey. Let him sign 18 of his own players and he'll have us playing like Brentford and finishing mid table.

I know it's only going to take another year or so of my life but, I can hardly wait.
You should spend more time watching the team then Smith. You’d possibly see then what an absolute sorry load of average players we have and he has to work with
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ketzster on February 17, 2019, 06:24:39 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 17, 2019, 06:06:54 PM
For every example of a Farke you can give, there's one from the other view point.  Take Leeds and Paul Heckingbottom.  Sacked after 4 months, I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that his replacement Bielsa is doing slightly better than he managed.

I don’t think Leeds are anywhere near as big a club as the Villa personally, but their fans have high expectations like ours do. They went through people like Heckingbottom, Steve Evans, Brian McDermott etc, but it wasn't until they got somebody who had handled big jobs before, like Bielsa, that they actually looked like doing something. He made two signings that actually play in the summer so it just goes to show this needing your own players thing is complete and utter nonsense if you’re a good coach. And he went in and they were excellent and haven’t had a massive slump. Certainly not a 14 game one

Newcastle had Benitez, another club with big expectations. Somebody like Brendan Rodgers might have handled the pressure having managed Liverpool and Celtic, but Dean Smith will likely be our equivalent to Heckingbottom and McDermott. As much maligned as the players are, most of them have still played at a very high level and will know an awful lot about football. Things like the triple substitution at Wigan and never changing tactics will have quite a few of them thinking what on earth are you doing? Dean Smith doesn’t have a particularly high standing in the game, and isn’t a young up and coming manager, so he probably can’t get away with as much as a Steven Gerrard or Frank Lampard can for example. At least Bruce had 4 promotions with smaller clubs so there was a bit of historical success, whereas Smith has nothing to fall back on. Managers like Smith, Heckingbottom, Evans, McDermott won’t work at clubs like the Villa and Leeds but will at clubs like Brentford, Rotherham, Reading etc
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brassneck on February 17, 2019, 06:26:30 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on February 17, 2019, 04:55:30 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on February 17, 2019, 04:42:17 PM
That old chestnut - I can moan all I iike about something because this is a forum and I'm allowed to have my say on it, but when I get asked what I'd do instead it isn't my job.

True, on every single point. Well done.

But we're still left with a manager who's not doing the job we hoped he would. So we're no better off.

So you have no idea who should replace him yet you think he should be sacked?

Perhaps it might be an idea to look at the options available before coming out with such bold statements.  After all, you'd chastise Smith for not having a plan B.

If Pep or Bielsa become available, then it might be worth considering.  However, if the choices are between Allerdyce, Moyes and Mick McCarthy, I think I'd prefer to stick with what we have.

A new manager is just as much a gamble as sticking with Smith is at this point.  If we get to this time next year and things are the same, there is a reasonable argument for change.  The club are seeking some form of stability and are looking to build.  Smith has a track record of playing football that is pleasing on the eye.  This is a big plus as 99% of fans want to watch this type of football.  We should be able to attract better players than Brentford do so your argument that we would finish mid table does not add up.  It is possible for us to play good football and get out of the division under Smith.  He knows the league well and knows what is required. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Richard E on February 17, 2019, 06:27:12 PM
We don’t have the second worst squad in the division but we have less wins in the last 13 games than all but one team. Dean Smith isn’t getting the best out of them. If they aren’t suited to his system he needs to play a system that they are suited to.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: XXVilla on February 17, 2019, 06:28:35 PM
Quote from: Richard E on February 17, 2019, 06:27:12 PM
We don’t have the second worst squad in the division but we have less wins in the last 13 games than all but one team. Dean Smith isn’t getting the best out of them. If they aren’t suited to his system he needs to play a system that they are suited to.

If life hands you lemons etc. To quote a well worn cliche.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT Villan on February 17, 2019, 06:30:56 PM
I must be getting old, it seems like people these days demand instant gratification and possess no patience when there is a head-wind.

I will admit to being a little concerned when Dean was mooted as Bruce's replacement, due entirely to the magnitude of the step up from Brentford to Villa and not being sure how he would handle the increased expectation. He started well enough, but things are easy when we're winning, the true test comes when things aren't so rosy. It is the difference in performance levels that has surprised me the most, that is, players who were playing so well now are incapable of passing to a team-mate. Where players were moving on and off the ball, they are now static and deep. Jack's absence is the easy excuse, but these things are basics, fundamental to the game and right now they are sadly lacking.

At the same time there needs to be a large dose of perspective applied to the situation and it is clear that the owners are planning long-term which is something we have been dreaming of for years. The fabric of the club will not change overnight, it took years to get in to this state and it will take a few years to get back to something matching our expectations. Whether Dean is the right captain for the good ship Aston Villa will remain to be seen, but he deserves the opportunity to make the changes he (and the club) deem necessary to get us moving forward again.

I don't have a problem with people complaining about Dean, the team and the club in general, they do it out love for all things Villa. But we should all apply a little perspective so that the critique remains relevant and doesn't become background noise that is dismissed out-of-hand or worse triggers purely emotional drama instead of considered, logical debate.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 17, 2019, 06:31:20 PM
Leeds signed 1 player in the summer?!

Hanford, Douglas, Davis, Harrison, Baker, Blackman, Brown and 18 incoming all told.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sickbeggar on February 17, 2019, 06:32:26 PM
Quote from: Richard E on February 17, 2019, 06:27:12 PM
We don’t have the second worst squad in the division but we have less wins in the last 13 games than all but one team. Dean Smith isn’t getting the best out of them. If they aren’t suited to his system he needs to play a system that they are suited to.

Bruceball? To what end? We're not going up so lets play football that suits a load of players who won't be here next season? Sounds a plan 8)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ROBBO on February 17, 2019, 06:40:30 PM
There are so many things not working at Villa we have wingers who cannot beat a man because they are too slow we have a midfield of one player being played out of position and the other who is close to a pension and a work ethic that is left to one man to supply. No wonder we are failing, when I watch the top sides in the division the one thing they all have in common is work ethic they run themselves into the ground from the start to the end our lot play like they are in the Festival league.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sickbeggar on February 17, 2019, 06:47:35 PM
End of the day, of the players in the squad yesterday, 9 won't be here currently either because they're out of contract or not ours and may well get better offers. And lets face it there's probably a couple more who Smith doesn't want but may be stuck with. Changing a system to suit them when they're not going to play any part in how we do next season, seems daft to me.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on February 17, 2019, 06:57:19 PM
Quote from: sickbeggar on February 17, 2019, 06:32:26 PM
Quote from: Richard E on February 17, 2019, 06:27:12 PM
We don’t have the second worst squad in the division but we have less wins in the last 13 games than all but one team. Dean Smith isn’t getting the best out of them. If they aren’t suited to his system he needs to play a system that they are suited to.

Bruceball? To what end? We're not going up so lets play football that suits a load of players who won't be here next season? Sounds a plan 8)

Sticking with what we know doesn't work because the manager is only capable of playing one way doesn't strike me as much of a plan either.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on February 17, 2019, 07:04:15 PM
Tbf, prior to the game at the stripeyfilth, we hadn't been playing that well. By which I mean that the sloppy haphazard stuff we're doing now, we were doing before. Who draws 5-each, ffs? It's misremembering to think we were Brazil '70 reincarnate. We still had rubbish anchoring our midfield, we still had erratic wingers, we still had piss-poor fullbacks. But we had Grealish. And with him, our Dad's Army outfit managed to find the energy in their tired old legs to get around the pitch at speeds they never believed possible, and kept it up for two months.

And now they're fucked, and there's no Grealish.

Smith's tried to address it in the window by getting in younger players, as opposed to plumping for "experience" just to see us through. Good. About time. But there's no way he envisaged Grealish being out for this long. We didn't, and we look at Twitter. To suggest he was going to be out for six weeks was verging on being heretical. And what's it going to be by the time he reappears, ten?

With the available players, we were always going to be fucked without him, I don't care who the manager might be.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on February 17, 2019, 07:12:36 PM
Quote from: Ketzster on February 17, 2019, 06:24:39 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 17, 2019, 06:06:54 PM
For every example of a Farke you can give, there's one from the other view point.  Take Leeds and Paul Heckingbottom.  Sacked after 4 months, I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that his replacement Bielsa is doing slightly better than he managed.

I don’t think Leeds are anywhere near as big a club as the Villa personally, but their fans have high expectations like ours do. They went through people like Heckingbottom, Steve Evans, Brian McDermott etc, but it wasn't until they got somebody who had handled big jobs before, like Bielsa, that they actually looked like doing something. He made two signings that actually play in the summer so it just goes to show this needing your own players thing is complete and utter nonsense if you’re a good coach.

You reckon Bielsa could come into our club now, with the players that we have and sort it out? How's that high intensity 90 minute press going to go with our lot? Coaches/managers need there own players or players that are comfortable within their prefered style.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SheffieldVillain on February 17, 2019, 07:14:18 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 17, 2019, 06:06:54 PM
For every example of a Farke you can give, there's one from the other view point.  Take Leeds and Paul Heckingbottom.  Sacked after 4 months, I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that his replacement Bielsa is doing slightly better than he managed.

Not at all unreasonable.

Mind you, it's taken them 22 managers in the last 20 years (10 managers in the last five years) to find one that succeeded (or probably will succeed at this stage).
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sickbeggar on February 17, 2019, 07:17:28 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on February 17, 2019, 06:57:19 PM
Quote from: sickbeggar on February 17, 2019, 06:32:26 PM
Quote from: Richard E on February 17, 2019, 06:27:12 PM
We don’t have the second worst squad in the division but we have less wins in the last 13 games than all but one team. Dean Smith isn’t getting the best out of them. If they aren’t suited to his system he needs to play a system that they are suited to.

Bruceball? To what end? We're not going up so lets play football that suits a load of players who won't be here next season? Sounds a plan 8)

Sticking with what we know doesn't work because the manager is only capable of playing one way doesn't strike me as much of a plan either.

So sack him and bring a new guy in. Still the same problem. Whatever he gets out of them playing whatever system he chooses they're not going to be here in 5 months. People have to ask what they want really. A slightly less painful 5 months and then change over to Smith's preferred system in the summer ( I mean i'm assuming you think the likes of Grealish, McGinn, chester and co can play his system with decent players around them?). OR stick to his guns now and get the players who are part of his plans, used to it.  Again remember, Hutton, Elphick, mings, Hause, whelan, Tammy, Steer, jedinak, El Ghazi won't be here currently from the squad yesterday. I won't even start on the players we wish weren't going to be here.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on February 17, 2019, 07:18:11 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on February 17, 2019, 07:12:36 PM
You reckon Bielsa could come into our club now, with the players that we have and sort it out? How's that high intensity 90 minute press going to go with our lot? Coaches/managers need there own players or players that are comfortable within their prefered style.
True, but equally managers have to prove they are adaptable.  We've had poor managers here in the past who have lacked a plan B.  Smith won't have his preferred squad all the time, in fact he may never have it, so what then?  I want to see more from him to show what he can do when the chips are down.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 17, 2019, 07:21:58 PM
There's preferred squad and then there is this.

You cant have it both ways and be with the majority, who I think are correct, that would happily bin 12 or more of this squad tomorrow if they could and then demand he gets more from it. Bruce couldn't, Smith without two of the best elements can't.

That's not to say we should accept poor performances and results, but given who we have in the midfield and who we have out, it's not hugely surprising that poor players are delivering poor football and results.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on February 17, 2019, 07:29:32 PM
Quote from: sickbeggar on February 17, 2019, 07:17:28 PM
So sack him and bring a new guy in. Still the same problem. Whatever he gets out of them playing whatever system he chooses they're not going to be here in 5 months. People have to ask what they want really. A slightly less painful 5 months and then change over to Smith's preferred system in the summer ( I mean i'm assuming you think the likes of Grealish, McGinn, chester and co can play his system with decent players around them?). OR stick to his guns now and get the players who are part of his plans, used to it.  Again remember, Hutton, Elphick, mings, Hause, whelan, Tammy, Steer, jedinak, El Ghazi won't be here currently from the squad yesterday. I won't even start on the players we wish weren't going to be here.
I don't want him sacked, I want him to be better.  I refuse to believe it is impossible for him to get more out of the players at disposal.  Absolutely not.

Ideally what I'd like to see is a versatile squad of players who can adapt to at least two styles and a manager who can choose the set-up and players depending on who we're facing.  Otherwise we end up with a one-dimensional squad of players who will have to be binned if / when Smith leaves and we can't find a replacement who plays exactly the same way.

My other worry is how long it will take to get a squad he feels he is able to work with.  How many players are we talking about?  Plenty probably, and surely too many to find, buy and integrate in one season.  So two seasons maybe, assuming it's possible at all.  Even if it is, we're not operating in a bubble, other clubs will be improving too.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on February 17, 2019, 07:31:32 PM
Of all the managers mentioned in this thread recently. Farke, Wagner, Nuno, Jokanovic, Bielsa. Its worth noting that none of them came in during mid-season to immediate success.
Bielsa and Nuno, who are the two with immediate 'success' came in during the summer.
I'd be surprised if there are many examples of managers coming in mid season and having anything more than a new manager bounce.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on February 17, 2019, 07:32:53 PM
Quote from: Ketzster on February 17, 2019, 06:24:39 PM

I don’t think Leeds are anywhere near as big a club as the Villa personally, but their fans have high expectations like ours do. They went through people like Heckingbottom, Steve Evans, Brian McDermott etc, but it wasn't until they got somebody who had handled big jobs before, like Bielsa, that they actually looked like doing something. He made two signings that actually play in the summer so it just goes to show this needing your own players thing is complete and utter nonsense if you’re a good coach. And he went in and they were excellent and haven’t had a massive slump. Certainly not a 14 game one

Newcastle had Benitez, another club with big expectations. Somebody like Brendan Rodgers might have handled the pressure having managed Liverpool and Celtic, but Dean Smith will likely be our equivalent to Heckingbottom and McDermott. As much maligned as the players are, most of them have still played at a very high level and will know an awful lot about football. Things like the triple substitution at Wigan and never changing tactics will have quite a few of them thinking what on earth are you doing? Dean Smith doesn’t have a particularly high standing in the game, and isn’t a young up and coming manager, so he probably can’t get away with as much as a Steven Gerrard or Frank Lampard can for example. At least Bruce had 4 promotions with smaller clubs so there was a bit of historical success, whereas Smith has nothing to fall back on. Managers like Smith, Heckingbottom, Evans, McDermott won’t work at clubs like the Villa and Leeds but will at clubs like Brentford, Rotherham, Reading etc
Okay - so this is a well-argued post, Ketzster.
Thank you.

As is this:
Quote from: CT Villan on February 17, 2019, 06:30:56 PM
I must be getting old, it seems like people these days demand instant gratification and possess no patience when there is a head-wind.

I will admit to being a little concerned when Dean was mooted as Bruce's replacement, due entirely to the magnitude of the step up from Brentford to Villa ... there needs to be a large dose of perspective applied to the situation and it is clear that the owners are planning long-term which is something we have been dreaming of for years. The fabric of the club will not change overnight, it took years to get in to this state and it will take a few years to get back to something matching our expectations. Whether Dean is the right captain for the good ship Aston Villa will remain to be seen, but he deserves the opportunity to make the changes he (and the club) deem necessary to get us moving forward again ... we should all apply a little perspective so that the critique remains relevant and doesn't become background noise that is dismissed out-of-hand or worse triggers purely emotional drama instead of considered, logical debate.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on February 17, 2019, 07:57:11 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on February 17, 2019, 07:31:32 PM
Of all the managers mentioned in this thread recently. Farke, Wagner, Nuno, Jokanovic, Bielsa. Its worth noting that none of them came in during mid-season to immediate success.
Bielsa and Nuno, who are the two with immediate 'success' came in during the summer.
I'd be surprised if there are many examples of managers coming in mid season and having anything more than a new manager bounce.

My number one defence of Smith is that he came in after the season had started and I recently heard Sam Allardyce give a very detailed and credible explanation of how difficult a situation that is for a manager. Who above us in the table do we feel we should be above? For me, all things considered we should probably be above Bristol City and Small Heath. Norwich look very good, Sheffield United are now having their third very good season on the bounce, Leeds seem to have got it right after years of failing, Derby and Boro were always going to be there or thereabouts, Forest spent a lot of money and brought a lot of players in during the summer and despite a terrible season last season Albion had a bit of a boost from their battling results in the last few games and started the season with a squad that always looked capable of challenging.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Gareth on February 17, 2019, 08:50:05 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on February 17, 2019, 04:35:40 PM


Ah. That old chestnut. The manager might not be up to it, but who would a random stranger put forward that's not as shit? And if you can't think of a name we should keep the guy who's not up to it.

It's not up to me. There are people at the club paid a lot more than my wage to decide who.

If you pushed me into a corner though, I would have to say, someone better. You know, someone who can cope with losing two players without everything turning to shit for two months.

You are correct there are people at the club paid to decide who manages the team

And

They have decided it’ll be Dean Smith!!!

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on February 17, 2019, 09:24:11 PM
Quote from: Gareth on February 17, 2019, 08:50:05 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on February 17, 2019, 04:35:40 PM


Ah. That old chestnut. The manager might not be up to it, but who would a random stranger put forward that's not as shit? And if you can't think of a name we should keep the guy who's not up to it.

It's not up to me. There are people at the club paid a lot more than my wage to decide who.

If you pushed me into a corner though, I would have to say, someone better. You know, someone who can cope with losing two players without everything turning to shit for two months.

You are correct there are people at the club paid to decide who manages the team

And

They have decided it’ll be Dean Smith!!!



Villa 75, what a fucking cop out.  Someone better, ah that old chestnut too.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on February 17, 2019, 09:36:13 PM
I don’t want Smith to go

but if by some chance he does go whenever that may be I hope we go for a foreign manager
I’m absolutely pig sick of British managers
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on February 17, 2019, 09:39:45 PM
Quote from: john e on February 17, 2019, 09:36:13 PM
I don’t want Smith to go

but if by some chance he does go whenever that may be I hope we go for a foreign manager
I’m absolutely pig sick of British managers

I remember reading on here once, during one of our many manager searches, somebody writing 'we've tried foreign. It didn't work.'
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on February 17, 2019, 09:46:40 PM
We've tried everything, nothing has worked.  We face yet another squad overhaul this summer with so many players out of contract and ffp breathing heavily.  The squad looks threadbare for next season with only Chester, SJM, Grealish, hopefully a more settle Kalinic and Guilbert belonging to us and of any quality.  The rest are keeping us where we are and can go in my view.
 
Hopefully we sign Mings and Hause so we have some solidity.  Yet another summer of turmoil seems to have become the Villa way.  Three managers since we got relegated.  All of this tells me that we are working to a plan but it still hasn't began to bed in yet.  Stick or twist, tough call.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on February 17, 2019, 09:50:05 PM
Quote from: Newby on February 17, 2019, 09:46:40 PM
We've tried everything, nothing has worked. 

I know. I just thought it funny/baffling that somebody thought 'foreign' was a style of football management.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on February 17, 2019, 09:54:44 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on February 17, 2019, 09:50:05 PM
Quote from: Newby on February 17, 2019, 09:46:40 PM
We've tried everything, nothing has worked. 

I know. I just thought it funny/baffling that somebody thought 'foreign' was a style of football management.

I guess it is as much a style as appointing a British manager is.  Villa, being the founders of the sport, perhaps we will be the first club to appoint an alien.  Fuck it, we've tried everything else.  Having said that, Blackpool and QPR may have beaten us to it when they appointed Ian Holloway!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villatillidie1982 on February 17, 2019, 09:57:07 PM
Quote from: Three Spires Villa on February 16, 2019, 10:06:03 PM
So who are we going to beat in our next few games? Stoke away draw, Derby home lose, Small Heath lose. Or we kid ourselves all is fine and we’re going to win every game! We are in a very bad place & the club & fans need to wake up to this. Another poor manager appointment.
we are in a bad place but it isn't a poor manager appointment. Give him some time. He can only work with what he has. Ramsey and McGinn with some decent youngsters will get us up next year. Given what went on in the summer this year was always destined to be a dead loss. That's why I had some sympathy for Bruce.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on February 17, 2019, 09:57:42 PM
It's true. Venglos, Garde and RDM are proof of it. Fancy dan foreigners have no place over here. Same goes for players, how many goals has Messi scored away to Stoke?

Big fat Sam's claret and blue army!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: adrenachrome on February 17, 2019, 10:00:18 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on February 17, 2019, 09:39:45 PM
Quote from: john e on February 17, 2019, 09:36:13 PM
I don’t want Smith to go

but if by some chance he does go whenever that may be I hope we go for a foreign manager
I’m absolutely pig sick of British managers

I remember reading on here once, during one of our many manager searches, somebody writing 'we've tried foreign. It didn't work.'

In fact, benevolent Uncle Doug was ahead of his time with Dr. Jo. We blaized the trail, so to speak.

Tim Sherwood was the ghost of Christmas Past who came to put things right or rightsize us downwards after the ministrations of Dr. Gerard.

Sometimes I'm sure
That I've stood like this before
The words that I heard then were much the same
It's just an old Greek Tragedy they're acting here
Held over by popular aclaim
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on February 17, 2019, 10:01:09 PM
Why go for Fat Sam Mr Shin, when Mourinho and Conte are both available?   Erm, and super David Moyes.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on February 17, 2019, 10:02:44 PM
We have come close more than once to appointing the first humanoid, namely Steve McClaren.  His language implant failed and he suddenly started to speak with a Dutch accent.  It was a dead giveaway.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on February 17, 2019, 10:05:38 PM
Quote from: brian green on February 17, 2019, 10:02:44 PM
We have come close more than once to appointing the first humanoid, namely Steve McClaren.  His language implant failed and he suddenly started to speak with a Dutch accent.  It was a dead giveaway.

I believe the same thing happened to one Joey Barton too Brian!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on February 17, 2019, 10:09:11 PM
Newby, you are confusing humanoids with mutants.  Barton is a mutant.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on February 17, 2019, 10:10:14 PM
Quote from: Newby on February 17, 2019, 10:01:09 PM
Why go for Fat Sam Mr Shin, when Mourinho and Conte are both available?   Erm, and super David Moyes.

Super Sam with Pulis as his assistant. Dream ticket.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on February 17, 2019, 10:35:33 PM
Now you're talking!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on February 17, 2019, 10:37:24 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on February 17, 2019, 09:57:42 PM
It's true. Venglos, Garde and RDM are proof of it. Fancy dan foreigners have no place over here. Same goes for players, how many goals has Messi scored away to Stoke?

Big fat Sam's claret and blue army!

Messi has never played away to Stoke. But of course until he does the big question mark over his career will always remain.

How well would Messi do on a wet and windy Wednesday night in December away to Stoke? ;)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: adrenachrome on February 17, 2019, 11:21:53 PM
Quote from: Damo70 on February 17, 2019, 10:37:24 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on February 17, 2019, 09:57:42 PM
It's true. Venglos, Garde and RDM are proof of it. Fancy dan foreigners have no place over here. Same goes for players, how many goals has Messi scored away to Stoke?

Big fat Sam's claret and blue army!

Messi has never played away to Stoke. But of course until he does the big question mark over his career will always remain.

How well would Messi do on a wet and windy Wednesday night in December away to Stoke? ;)

It can get quite wet and windy in certain parts of Argentina and (cough) its associated archipelagos. This is often lost on various pundits one of whom was asked the following questions by an exasperated Argie: "Did you have a map of the world? Are you friendly with the sheeps of the mountains? Know you you well of Antarctica and penguin based entertainments?  Maybe you are dumbo Old Etonian who thinks he can send Warships to China and provoke Russia who could wipe him off the map in 30 minutes".

Wasting his breath, needless to say. As Kurt Vonnegut said "I was the victim of a series of accidents, as are we all". So it goes.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on February 17, 2019, 11:23:39 PM
Is this Archie Pelagos any good, worth signing?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: adrenachrome on February 17, 2019, 11:28:42 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on February 17, 2019, 11:23:39 PM
Is this Archie Pelagos any good, worth signing?

You knew this was coming down the pipe, didn't you, PWS?

He could do a pretty good job in the hole.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on February 17, 2019, 11:32:16 PM
(https://media.balls.ie/uploads/2014/01/york.gif)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 18, 2019, 12:09:59 AM
It never gets old. We should appoint Mick for that gif alone.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tomd2103 on February 18, 2019, 12:56:09 AM
Dean Smith is struggling and I'm sure he wishes the season could end right now.  It doesn't look like the players are playing for him and I'm sure a good number of them will be gone in the summer anyway. 

I want to see him given time and see what he can do with a full pre-season and some fresh faces brought in who he feels will be able to play the way he wants.  That said, I am a bit concerned about the impact a really poor couple of months from now will have on him and the club in general.  I just hope, Tuanzebe, Chester and Grealish come back to hel us finish the season strongly and get a bit of momentum.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on February 18, 2019, 10:51:53 AM
Quote from: Risso on February 18, 2019, 12:09:59 AM
It never gets old. We should appoint Mick for that gif alone.

I giggle (or should that be giffle?) every time I see it. Best one out there.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VinnieChase84 on February 18, 2019, 11:56:50 AM
The major issue is our fan base in large sections just demand instant success without the work. Not willing to have any pain at all even if it benefits us down the line. This is the first apt of our new owners and board and they will give him time. Weve not signed players on in the first window that dont join until the summer unless we are thinking further ahead.
The young lads who have gone on loan will come back to us better off in the summer. That's then a chance for them so take up important roles in our first team squad instead of the overpaid wasters like Lansbury etc.
The toughest thing for people to grasp at the moment is just accepting that we don't have many players who are actually any good. Certainly not up for the demands of a front foot style.

My biggest worry is the effect of these short term results and what pressure that could bring. Say we don't beat stoke/derby then on the wrong side of a result at the sty, the whole thing just becomes toxic once again.
Its blatantly obvious to a lot of the squad that they don't have futures under us. This naturally will cause a downturn in performances. Some of the news is inescapable of them knowing (the fact we wont discuss new deals with certain members) and that speaks volumes.

Deano has discussed how he sees football and what he expects us to play. First time ever weve had a manager who discusses style, tactics and the type of players he wants. We now have to allow him time to put that into practice. If come Jan 2020 we are no further forward then that would be the time to look at his position.



Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Des Little on February 18, 2019, 11:57:22 AM
I think it's safe to assume that the summer will see the kind of overhaul not seen since the summers of '91 (Big Ron) and to some lesser extent '95 (Sir Brian), and with it a whole new team and playing style for next season.  There seems to be a lot of negativity and confusion amongst fans with where exactly we are, and no knowledge of what plans are in place (understandably)and ultimately what the future will be, however I have 100% confidence that the owners know exactly what they are doing, and better days are not far away. 

Keep the faith!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: wozwebs on February 18, 2019, 12:02:28 PM
thatcherlover on Twitter who has been right a fair bit before (and claims works at BH) is saying there is a big split in dressing room, the players think training is too focused on running and running and not enough tactical training. JT been sidelined since day one, players not happy about being dropped without telling them a reason.

Basically sounds like they all had it cushy under Bruce, who thatcherlover must have got on with at BH, and are not having to actually graft for a living and don't like it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 18, 2019, 12:03:55 PM
Quote from: wozwebs on February 18, 2019, 12:02:28 PM
thatcherlover on Twitter who has been right a fair bit before 

No, he hasn't.  He's a bullshitter of the very highest order.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VinnieChase84 on February 18, 2019, 12:04:49 PM
Quote from: wozwebs on February 18, 2019, 12:02:28 PM
thatcherlover on Twitter who has been right a fair bit before (and claims works at BH) is saying there is a big split in dressing room, the players think training is too focused on running and running and not enough tactical training. JT been sidelined since day one, players not happy about being dropped without telling them a reason.

Basically sounds like they all had it cushy under Bruce, who thatcherlover must have got on with at BH, and are not having to actually graft for a living and don't like it.

Wouldn't believe a word he says mate. Been caught out loads before and makes up utter BS.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sirlordbaltimore on February 18, 2019, 12:07:55 PM


TBF

That Thatcherlover has got stuff right in the past but he's also been pretty much against Smith from the off as well. So i'll take it all with a pinch of salt.

That said. We are playing like a side that 'could' have a dressing room split and JT does seem to have been less visible of late

Seeing as Smith was supposed to be all about tactics it would seem odd if all they do is running. But again on the other hand we don't look anything like a team that's been drilled tactically of late either

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Axl Rose on February 18, 2019, 12:08:09 PM
I'd have the lazy, slow, arrogant, crap fucks running all day, every day if I had my way. In the opposite direction of our club.

Hourihane jogging off when subbed against the Baggies...pathetic. Whelan and Jedinak haven't run since the mid 2000's. Useless.

I don't believe that thatcherlover, however. So fuck knows what I'm babbling on about.

Basically we have alot of crap players.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Des Little on February 18, 2019, 12:09:59 PM
If anything, I'd say that any players that Thatcherlover claims to have spoken to (and that's highly debatable) are those with an agenda, like being told that they'll not be here next season, and they're pissed off/upset/egos damaged.  Nothing more.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Tayls_7 on February 18, 2019, 12:11:38 PM
Quote from: Axl Rose on February 18, 2019, 12:08:09 PM
I'd have the lazy, slow, arrogant, crap fucks running all day, every day if I had my way. In the opposite direction of our club.

Hourihane jogging off when subbed against the Baggies...pathetic. Whelan and Jedinak haven't run since the mid 2000's. Useless.

I don't believe that thatcherlover, however. So fuck knows what I'm babbling on about.

Basically we have alot of crap players.

Is this insider information. Are you itk?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 18, 2019, 12:51:24 PM
Quote from: sirlordbaltimore on February 18, 2019, 12:07:55 PM


TBF

That Thatcherlover has got stuff right in the past

To repeat, no he hasn't.  Not once.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Axl Rose on February 18, 2019, 12:53:01 PM
Quote from: Tayls_7 on February 18, 2019, 12:11:38 PM
Quote from: Axl Rose on February 18, 2019, 12:08:09 PM
I'd have the lazy, slow, arrogant, crap fucks running all day, every day if I had my way. In the opposite direction of our club.

Hourihane jogging off when subbed against the Baggies...pathetic. Whelan and Jedinak haven't run since the mid 2000's. Useless.

I don't believe that thatcherlover, however. So fuck knows what I'm babbling on about.

Basically we have alot of crap players.

Is this insider information. Are you itk?

No. But more so than thatcherlover? Absolutely.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on February 18, 2019, 01:27:08 PM
Quote from: curiousorange on February 16, 2019, 05:21:45 PM
I never thought I'd say this, but set the team up for a 1-0 smash and grab, stop the rot and get some fucking pride back into the place.

He set up to do that at Brentford in my view.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 18, 2019, 01:31:34 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 18, 2019, 12:03:55 PM
Quote from: wozwebs on February 18, 2019, 12:02:28 PM
thatcherlover on Twitter who has been right a fair bit before 

No, he hasn't.  He's a bullshitter of the very highest order.

Absolutely. Full of utter shit and caught out a number of times.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on February 18, 2019, 01:33:14 PM
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on February 18, 2019, 11:56:50 AM
The major issue is our fan base in large sections just demand instant success without the work. Not willing to have any pain at all even if it benefits us down the line. This is the first apt of our new owners and board and they will give him time. Weve not signed players on in the first window that dont join until the summer unless we are thinking further ahead.
The young lads who have gone on loan will come back to us better off in the summer. That's then a chance for them so take up important roles in our first team squad instead of the overpaid wasters like Lansbury etc.
The toughest thing for people to grasp at the moment is just accepting that we don't have many players who are actually any good. Certainly not up for the demands of a front foot style.

My biggest worry is the effect of these short term results and what pressure that could bring. Say we don't beat stoke/derby then on the wrong side of a result at the sty, the whole thing just becomes toxic once again.
Its blatantly obvious to a lot of the squad that they don't have futures under us. This naturally will cause a downturn in performances. Some of the news is inescapable of them knowing (the fact we wont discuss new deals with certain members) and that speaks volumes.

Deano has discussed how he sees football and what he expects us to play. First time ever weve had a manager who discusses style, tactics and the type of players he wants. We now have to allow him time to put that into practice. If come Jan 2020 we are no further forward then that would be the time to look at his position.





I don’t agree with the first part of this post at all

no one expects success without work no one
my expectations are incredibly low

just a bit of slow gradual improvement based around a reasonable system
players being able to control the ball under moderate pressure and then find someone on their own side with it
players that at least look like they want to be playing for Villa rather than going through the motions
maybe every now then a bit of decent football to applaud

It’s not demanding success, it’s a pretty low based ambition for any football club never mind Aston Villa

but we are going years and years without seeing the very basics from one season to the next
the fan base is not at fault here, it’s been incredibly long suffering and patient

fingers should be pointed elsewhere not at our overdemanding fanbase because it just isn’t true

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on February 18, 2019, 02:38:39 PM
We're 4 months in to Smith's tenure as Head Coach, Pitarch's as DoF and just over 5 in to Purslow's as CEO. With our new owners having bought the club just over 6 months ago I think people complaining and demanding success are absolutely, completely and utterly jumping the gun.

We're an organisation that's been going backwards for years and years and the rot had most definitely set in.

There's no way that any philosophy will have had the opportunity to show itself yet. The manager and DoF have had one January window. The CEO the same and the owners have had half a window on top of that, the previous half window looked like we were going to have to sell any assets we had.

We may not be playing great at the moment but people calling Smith out at this point, when he's working with players brought in by at least three previous managers who had different styles are being, quite frankly, about as short-termist as you can get.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 18, 2019, 02:48:10 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 18, 2019, 02:38:39 PM
We're 4 months in to Smith's tenure as Head Coach, Pitarch's as DoF and just over 5 in to Purslow's as CEO. With our new owners having bought the club just over 6 months ago I think people complaining and demanding success are absolutely, completely and utterly jumping the gun.

We're an organisation that's been going backwards for years and years and the rot had most definitely set in.

There's no way that any philosophy will have had the opportunity to show itself yet. The manager and DoF have had one January window. The CEO the same and the owners have had half a window on top of that, the previous half window looked like we were going to have to sell any assets we had.

We may not be playing great at the moment but people calling Smith out at this point, when he's working with players brought in by at least three previous managers who had different styles are being, quite frankly, about as short-termist as you can get.

I don't disagree with any of that Drummond.  I don't think many people are demanding instant success though.  Smith himself has said that top 6 was his target, and it's not looking like we're even going to be close.  Worse than that, it's not just a case of just missing out, we're in the middle of one of our regular spirit-sapping runs of miserable performances and results.  He needs to show he's got the ability to turn things around, as I honestly don't think he'll survive if it this run continues for another half a dozen games, which is all too possible.  I want him to succeed, but he needs to turn things round sharpish. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: DB on February 18, 2019, 03:01:27 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 18, 2019, 02:48:10 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 18, 2019, 02:38:39 PM
We're 4 months in to Smith's tenure as Head Coach, Pitarch's as DoF and just over 5 in to Purslow's as CEO. With our new owners having bought the club just over 6 months ago I think people complaining and demanding success are absolutely, completely and utterly jumping the gun.

We're an organisation that's been going backwards for years and years and the rot had most definitely set in.

There's no way that any philosophy will have had the opportunity to show itself yet. The manager and DoF have had one January window. The CEO the same and the owners have had half a window on top of that, the previous half window looked like we were going to have to sell any assets we had.

We may not be playing great at the moment but people calling Smith out at this point, when he's working with players brought in by at least three previous managers who had different styles are being, quite frankly, about as short-termist as you can get.

I don't disagree with any of that Drummond.  I don't think many people are demanding instant success though.  Smith himself has said that top 6 was his target, and it's not looking like we're even going to be close.  Worse than that, it's not just a case of just missing out, we're in the middle of one of our regular spirit-sapping runs of miserable performances and results.  He needs to show he's got the ability to turn things around, as I honestly don't think he'll survive if it this run continues for another half a dozen games, which is all too possible.  I want him to succeed, but he needs to turn things round sharpish. 

I agree with both views. He needs time as does the DoF but he may not get it if this run continues.
Personally, he should be there come the summer but he does need to show improvement
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Duncan Shaw on February 18, 2019, 03:18:27 PM
I think part of the frustration of the soul-sapping run we are on is that when he first came in we did see an immediate upturn in form and performance, so there is evidence that he can get this lot playing to his desired way.  Yes we were woeful at the back but we were fabulous going forward.  This has dried up partly down to our two most comfortable "on the ball" players being out and presumably to the old men running out of steam.  But the fact is we DID play Boro, WBA and Derby off the pitch in that run.  We now look like we don't belong on the same pitch and people are frustrated that he looks like he has no idea how to turn it round, but we know this lot CAN play that way.

I an fully behind him seeing the project through and think it will bear dividends for us, but like some above have said, not sure the entire fan base has any patience any more after the long years of dross that any new dawn has eventually petered out to.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Des Little on February 18, 2019, 03:25:36 PM
There is no way we should do anything with regard to the manager until he's had this summer and the first couple of months of next season.  It shouldn't even be considered in my opinion.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on February 18, 2019, 04:13:09 PM
not even if we repeat the pattern of the last 13 games? I don't want Dean to get sacked, I want him to succeed where many others in recent years have failed, but the only yardstick for any manager is results. Somehow he needs to engineer a big uplift  between now and May 5th.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sirlordbaltimore on February 18, 2019, 04:21:09 PM
Quote from: mr underhill on February 18, 2019, 04:13:09 PM
not even if we repeat the pattern of the last 13 games? I don't want Dean to get sacked, I want him to succeed where many others in recent years have failed, but the only yardstick for any manager is results. Somehow he needs to engineer a big uplift  between now and May 5th.

But if some of the players have given up, how is he supposed to get a tune out of them? it's not like we have loads to call on as replacements either

They're on trial more than Smith for me.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: XXVilla on February 18, 2019, 04:21:52 PM
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on February 18, 2019, 11:56:50 AM
The major issue is our fan base in large sections just depmand instant success without the work. Not willing to have any pain at all even if it benefits us down the line. This is the first apt of our new owners and board and they will give him time. Weve not signed players on in the first window that dont join until the summer unless we are thinking further ahead.
The young lads who have gone on loan will come back to us better off in the summer. That's then a chance for them so take up important roles in our first team squad instead of the overpaid wasters like Lansbury etc.
The toughest thing for people to grasp at the moment is just accepting that we don't have many players who are actually any good. Certainly not up for the demands of a front foot style.

My biggest worry is the effect of these short term results and what pressure that could bring. Say we don't beat stoke/derby then on the wrong side of a result at the sty, the whole thing just becomes toxic once again.
Its blatantly obvious to a lot of the squad that they don't have futures under us. This naturally will cause a downturn in performances. Some of the news is inescapable of them knowing (the fact we wont discuss new deals with certain members) and that speaks volumes.

Deano has discussed how he sees football and what he expects us to play. First time ever weve had a manager who discusses style, tactics and the type of players he wants. We now have to allow him time to put that into practice. If come Jan 2020 we are no further forward then that would be the time to look at his position.

I agree with all of this but we’ve actually had 8 years of pain already so we’re entitled to moan a little.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on February 18, 2019, 05:00:59 PM
Quote from: Des Little on February 18, 2019, 11:57:22 AM
I think it's safe to assume that the summer will see the kind of overhaul not seen since the summers of '91 (Big Ron) and to some lesser extent '95 (Sir Brian), and with it a whole new team and playing style for next season.  There seems to be a lot of negativity and confusion amongst fans with where exactly we are, and no knowledge of what plans are in place (understandably)and ultimately what the future will be, however I have 100% confidence that the owners know exactly what they are doing, and better days are not far away. 

Keep the faith!
I like the cut of your jib. This is how I feel about the current situation. We have to have faith that the owners know what they are doing. Keep the faith.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: berneboy on February 18, 2019, 05:02:26 PM
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on February 18, 2019, 11:56:50 AM
The major issue is our fan base in large sections just demand instant success without the work. Not willing to have any pain at all even if it benefits us down the line. This is the first apt of our new owners and board and they will give him time. Weve not signed players on in the first window that dont join until the summer unless we are thinking further ahead.
The young lads who have gone on loan will come back to us better off in the summer. That's then a chance for them so take up important roles in our first team squad instead of the overpaid wasters like Lansbury etc.
The toughest thing for people to grasp at the moment is just accepting that we don't have many players who are actually any good. Certainly not up for the demands of a front foot style.

My biggest worry is the effect of these short term results and what pressure that could bring. Say we don't beat stoke/derby then on the wrong side of a result at the sty, the whole thing just becomes toxic once again.
Its blatantly obvious to a lot of the squad that they don't have futures under us. This naturally will cause a downturn in performances. Some of the news is inescapable of them knowing (the fact we wont discuss new deals with certain members) and that speaks volumes.

Deano has discussed how he sees football and what he expects us to play. First time ever weve had a manager who discusses style, tactics and the type of players he wants. We now have to allow him time to put that into practice. If come Jan 2020 we are no further forward then that would be the time to look at his position.




I agree with every word of VC84. Deano needs time to rebuild. Several of our players simply aren't able to play a pressing, passing game.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on February 18, 2019, 05:39:21 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 18, 2019, 02:48:10 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 18, 2019, 02:38:39 PM
We're 4 months in to Smith's tenure as Head Coach, Pitarch's as DoF and just over 5 in to Purslow's as CEO. With our new owners having bought the club just over 6 months ago I think people complaining and demanding success are absolutely, completely and utterly jumping the gun.

We're an organisation that's been going backwards for years and years and the rot had most definitely set in.

There's no way that any philosophy will have had the opportunity to show itself yet. The manager and DoF have had one January window. The CEO the same and the owners have had half a window on top of that, the previous half window looked like we were going to have to sell any assets we had.

We may not be playing great at the moment but people calling Smith out at this point, when he's working with players brought in by at least three previous managers who had different styles are being, quite frankly, about as short-termist as you can get.

I don't disagree with any of that Drummond.  I don't think many people are demanding instant success though.  Smith himself has said that top 6 was his target, and it's not looking like we're even going to be close.  Worse than that, it's not just a case of just missing out, we're in the middle of one of our regular spirit-sapping runs of miserable performances and results.  He needs to show he's got the ability to turn things around, as I honestly don't think he'll survive if it this run continues for another half a dozen games, which is all too possible.  I want him to succeed, but he needs to turn things round sharpish.

So we should give him another 6 games? Or what does 'sharpish' mean exactly?

He won't have had another window, he won't have had his two best players, the whole owner/senior exec thing is new and won't have had much more time. I'm disappointed in the results, and will be even more if there isn't some hope. However, the likes of Ramsay, Green, Davis and O'Hare getting game time and time in the matchday squad over the last 6 games, O'Hare, RHM, and Clark being out on loan to get more experience and new signings playing well (Mings, Kalinic) are signs of preparation for the future.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mallo on February 18, 2019, 05:44:40 PM
I'll grudgingly write this season off and give him the summer to have a clear out - it's painful having to put up with this again but I can't see an alternative just now. Even if we stink out the league for the rest of the season, I think the decision is made at the top - Smith gets a full closed season. If after 12 games next season we still stink then it's time to think again, but my god it will just be the same old repeat ad nauseum.

What annoys me is we were doing some passing and moving and scoring goals - where has that gone. The players now look like they can't be asred - which to me looks like there's something wrong in the dressing room. How do you motivate a man on 40k a week and no incentive to give 100%? I don't know but I think Smith will meet a few bigger tests than that along the way so he needs to find an answer, and pretty quickly, otherwise his stock with the ones who stay may have been tarnished. That's all conjecture by the way - I've not been conspiring with thatcherlover.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: wince on February 18, 2019, 05:54:46 PM
Quote from: mallo on February 18, 2019, 05:44:40 PM
I'll grudgingly write this season off and give him the summer to have a clear out - it's painful having to put up with this again but I can't see an alternative just now. Even if we stink out the league for the rest of the season, I think the decision is made at the top - Smith gets a full closed season. If after 12 games next season we still stink then it's time to think again, but my god it will just be the same old repeat ad nauseum.

What annoys me is we were doing some passing and moving and scoring goals - where has that gone. The players now look like they can't be asred - which to me looks like there's something wrong in the dressing room. How do you motivate a man on 40k a week and no incentive to give 100%? I don't know but I think Smith will meet a few bigger tests than that along the way so he needs to find an answer, and pretty quickly, otherwise his stock with the ones who stay may have been tarnished. That's all conjecture by the way - I've not been conspiring with thatcherlover.

Could it be as simple as jacks presence off of the field as well as his absence playing? I wonder if there is any legs in our dead wood also being told they are off at the end of the season? I would say that we have a team that is a bunch of individuals who looked good in their YouTube clips. Together they aren't gelling and that is a worry. Roll on end of season
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dalians umbrella on February 18, 2019, 07:12:33 PM
I really hope this Thatcher Lover is full of **** because the scenario he describes, of Dean Smith significantly upping the amount of running too quickly to the point where he alienates the players, is the exact scenario I have been worrying about.

If we take a quick look at the evidence for:

1. Dean Smith was recently showing the players videos of how much Liverpool and Man City run, which made me worry this was an attempt to "bring them round".

2. Jack's stress fracture. This is an overuse injury - you get it from doing too much running relative to what you are used to (e.g. building up too quickly) and relative to the amount of rest you are getting. Smith's discussions of this in the press were really bizarre, to the point of making his own medical staff look like idiots by saying they were baffled and couldn't get to the bottom of it. What's to get to the bottom of? The MRI shows a stress fracture - he's been running too much. This made me think he didn't want the cause of the injury to be made common knowledge.

Now,  the big risk of a stress fracture is that once the bone is weakened in that area, you can suddenly get a proper "acute" fracture  ....

3. Axel's metatarsal fracture. The most common site of running-related stress fractures are the metatarsals. When any footballer gets a metatarsal fracture, I always wonder whether it could have been a stress fracture in the first instance.

4. Nyland's Achilles rupture. Healthy tendons don't rupture - they need to be degenerate first (tendinosis) - which is another overuse injury.

5. Some, but not all players who have been training elsewhere  - Green and Carroll - come into our training and instantly get hamstring strains.



Did our player's need to do more running? Well, for years now, we have had a slow, lumbering Serie A style, whereas every other team we've played (including lower league teams in the cups) look to be playing a completely different style and run rings around us.

Does an increase in running need to be built up slowly so you don't get more injuries and shatter the players? Yes - but would that be the job of the fitness coaches and fitness staff to tell the manager this.

Is the amount of running that Smith wants his players to do excessive? If it was, he have crocked all the players at his previous clubs? Is it too much for player's who aren't used to it? Maybe?

Is this all just conjecture? Definitely.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 18, 2019, 07:19:02 PM
I wouldn't base even the most wildest of conjecture on anything that attention seeking twat says. Davis moaning to him personally that he's not been playing. That would be the injured Davis.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: XXVilla on February 18, 2019, 08:53:57 PM
Quote from: dalians umbrella on February 18, 2019, 07:12:33 PM
I really hope this Thatcher Lover is full of **** because the scenario he describes, of Dean Smith significantly upping the amount of running too quickly to the point where he alienates the players, is the exact scenario I have been worrying about.

If we take a quick look at the evidence for:

1. Dean Smith was recently showing the players videos of how much Liverpool and Man City run, which made me worry this was an attempt to "bring them round".

2. Jack's stress fracture. This is an overuse injury - you get it from doing too much running relative to what you are used to (e.g. building up too quickly) and relative to the amount of rest you are getting. Smith's discussions of this in the press were really bizarre, to the point of making his own medical staff look like idiots by saying they were baffled and couldn't get to the bottom of it. What's to get to the bottom of? The MRI shows a stress fracture - he's been running too much. This made me think he didn't want the cause of the injury to be made common knowledge.

Now,  the big risk of a stress fracture is that once the bone is weakened in that area, you can suddenly get a proper "acute" fracture  ....

3. Axel's metatarsal fracture. The most common site of running-related stress fractures are the metatarsals. When any footballer gets a metatarsal fracture, I always wonder whether it could have been a stress fracture in the first instance.

4. Nyland's Achilles rupture. Healthy tendons don't rupture - they need to be degenerate first (tendinosis) - which is another overuse injury.

5. Some, but not all players who have been training elsewhere  - Green and Carroll - come into our training and instantly get hamstring strains.



Did our player's need to do more running? Well, for years now, we have had a slow, lumbering Serie A style, whereas every other team we've played (including lower league teams in the cups) look to be playing a completely different style and run rings around us.

Does an increase in running need to be built up slowly so you don't get more injuries and shatter the players? Yes - but would that be the job of the fitness coaches and fitness staff to tell the manager this.

Is the amount of running that Smith wants his players to do excessive? If it was, he have crocked all the players at his previous clubs? Is it too much for player's who aren't used to it? Maybe?

Is this all just conjecture? Definitely.

So you’re saying they’re doing too much running..?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on February 18, 2019, 09:05:17 PM
Maybe Dean is a big Spencer Davis fan and next season the team will come out to "Keep on Running"
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on February 18, 2019, 10:09:51 PM
Quote from: XXVilla on February 18, 2019, 08:53:57 PM
Quote from: dalians umbrella on February 18, 2019, 07:12:33 PM
I really hope this Thatcher Lover is full of **** because the scenario he describes, of Dean Smith significantly upping the amount of running too quickly to the point where he alienates the players, is the exact scenario I have been worrying about.

If we take a quick look at the evidence for:

1. Dean Smith was recently showing the players videos of how much Liverpool and Man City run, which made me worry this was an attempt to "bring them round".

2. Jack's stress fracture. This is an overuse injury - you get it from doing too much running relative to what you are used to (e.g. building up too quickly) and relative to the amount of rest you are getting. Smith's discussions of this in the press were really bizarre, to the point of making his own medical staff look like idiots by saying they were baffled and couldn't get to the bottom of it. What's to get to the bottom of? The MRI shows a stress fracture - he's been running too much. This made me think he didn't want the cause of the injury to be made common knowledge.

Now,  the big risk of a stress fracture is that once the bone is weakened in that area, you can suddenly get a proper "acute" fracture  ....

3. Axel's metatarsal fracture. The most common site of running-related stress fractures are the metatarsals. When any footballer gets a metatarsal fracture, I always wonder whether it could have been a stress fracture in the first instance.

4. Nyland's Achilles rupture. Healthy tendons don't rupture - they need to be degenerate first (tendinosis) - which is another overuse injury.

5. Some, but not all players who have been training elsewhere  - Green and Carroll - come into our training and instantly get hamstring strains.



Did our player's need to do more running? Well, for years now, we have had a slow, lumbering Serie A style, whereas every other team we've played (including lower league teams in the cups) look to be playing a completely different style and run rings around us.

Does an increase in running need to be built up slowly so you don't get more injuries and shatter the players? Yes - but would that be the job of the fitness coaches and fitness staff to tell the manager this.

Is the amount of running that Smith wants his players to do excessive? If it was, he have crocked all the players at his previous clubs? Is it too much for player's who aren't used to it? Maybe?

Is this all just conjecture? Definitely.

So you’re saying they’re doing too much running..?
Deano & co are known for their progressive methods so I very much doubt they just send the players out running just for the effing sake of it. And running is kind of what footballers do for a living in any case? As for Jack's injury we were told at the time that it was a cumulative effect of him being the most fouled player in the league. I do however think that he doesn't help himself with those tiny shin pads he prefers. I'd also like to add that I think what's definitely a big problem with the team right now is the amount of players who know they aren't part of our long term future. I think it must be really be difficult to motivate all those affected.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on February 18, 2019, 10:14:17 PM
They shouldn't really need that much motivation. Even if you ignore the tens of thousands they are paid weekly, professional pride and the desire to get a contract elsewhere should, I repeat should, be enough to have them motivated.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Tayls_7 on February 18, 2019, 10:20:32 PM
Many professional footballers can compensate for a lack of athleticism with exquisite touch, vision and positional sense.............. ???............."Right lads, a dozen shuttles of the A38, go".
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: andyh on February 18, 2019, 10:48:25 PM
To be honest, many of them do so little running in games that probably need to run a few extra miles in training to keep the pounds off.

Seriously though, I think Dalians umbrella has a valid point.
We were talking about the same thing at the weekend. It is incredible the number of injuries that the squad has contracted during training. There has to be some reason for it, doesn’t there?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brassneck on February 18, 2019, 10:56:47 PM
Quote from: andyh on February 18, 2019, 10:48:25 PM
To be honest, many of them do so little running in games that probably need to run a few extra miles in training to keep the pounds off.

Seriously though, I think Dalians umbrella has a valid point.
We were talking about the same thing at the weekend. It is incredible the number of injuries that the squad has contracted during training. There has to be some reason for it, doesn’t there?

It seems that the way out of the Championship is by running.  The top 2 both have it down to a Tee.

In order to play the pressing game (for 90 minutes), players need to be able to run.

In a way, I hope the story is accurate as it explains a lot and alleviates Smith to a certain extent.  I want to believe in Smith and indeed, I do.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: clash city rocker on February 18, 2019, 10:58:38 PM
With all the statistics there are today in the modern game is there an injury statistic  ?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdward on February 18, 2019, 11:27:12 PM
Quote from: clash city rocker on February 18, 2019, 10:58:38 PM
With all the statistics there are today in the modern game is there an injury statistic  ?
http://www.teamfeed.co.uk/injuries-suspensions/football/england/championship/injuries
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: BC Villain on February 18, 2019, 11:34:47 PM
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on February 18, 2019, 12:04:49 PM
Quote from: wozwebs on February 18, 2019, 12:02:28 PM
thatcherlover on Twitter who has been right a fair bit before (and claims works at BH) is saying there is a big split in dressing room, the players think training is too focused on running and running and not enough tactical training. JT been sidelined since day one, players not happy about being dropped without telling them a reason.

Basically sounds like they all had it cushy under Bruce, who thatcherlover must have got on with at BH, and are not having to actually graft for a living and don't like it.

Wouldn't believe a word he says mate. Been caught out loads before and makes up utter BS.

Can't be any worse than that other muppett on twitter Greg's Goals.  Totally irrational, stupid and extremely personal in his attacks on Deano.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Pete3206 on February 19, 2019, 06:51:56 AM
When are people going to learn that Twitter is not Reuters and full of fluff and bullshit?*


*although there are those that may have the same opinion of Reuters
 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan For Life on February 19, 2019, 06:59:01 AM
I don’t believe for a minute that the injuries to Jack, Axel and others are stress related and due to the amount of running that they are now required to do.

They’re not fast bowlers slamming their front foot down at the point of delivery. They’re footballers playing on relatively soft, well tended grass. Jack’s injury was bound to happen sooner or later in this league where he was the most fouled player in the division.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on February 19, 2019, 07:31:45 AM
If it was about the amount of running they are doing, why has Mcginn managed to play mostly every game since he's been here? He runs more than most. It's a load of Twitter bollocks which only the gullible fall for.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on February 19, 2019, 09:00:23 AM
Quote from: Clampy on February 19, 2019, 07:31:45 AM
If it was about the amount of running they are doing, why has Mcginn managed to play mostly every game since he's been here? He runs more than most. It's a load of Twitter bollocks which only the gullible fall for.
Well said. Referencing Twitter sources on H&V should come with a caveat

#Twitter is often full of bullshitting attention seeking twats.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VinnieChase84 on February 19, 2019, 09:40:45 AM
Quote from: XXVilla on February 18, 2019, 04:21:52 PM
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on February 18, 2019, 11:56:50 AM
The major issue is our fan base in large sections just depmand instant success without the work. Not willing to have any pain at all even if it benefits us down the line. This is the first apt of our new owners and board and they will give him time. Weve not signed players on in the first window that dont join until the summer unless we are thinking further ahead.
The young lads who have gone on loan will come back to us better off in the summer. That's then a chance for them so take up important roles in our first team squad instead of the overpaid wasters like Lansbury etc.
The toughest thing for people to grasp at the moment is just accepting that we don't have many players who are actually any good. Certainly not up for the demands of a front foot style.

My biggest worry is the effect of these short term results and what pressure that could bring. Say we don't beat stoke/derby then on the wrong side of a result at the sty, the whole thing just becomes toxic once again.
Its blatantly obvious to a lot of the squad that they don't have futures under us. This naturally will cause a downturn in performances. Some of the news is inescapable of them knowing (the fact we wont discuss new deals with certain members) and that speaks volumes.

Deano has discussed how he sees football and what he expects us to play. First time ever weve had a manager who discusses style, tactics and the type of players he wants. We now have to allow him time to put that into practice. If come Jan 2020 we are no further forward then that would be the time to look at his position.

I agree with all of this but we’ve actually had 8 years of pain already so we’re entitled to moan a little.

When mentioning the fan base i genuinely have plenty of discussions with ones who can see bigger picture. Issue is related to the ones who dont and will boo already. Some of the stuff i hear around where i sit is already at tipping point, wont take long for a few to turn into a section and so on and so on.

Had a look at our results after Bruce came in. He had a period from end of december to end of feb where we won 1 game, drew 2 and lost 7. I don't recall back then the levelling of questioning aimed his way. Thats after he spent £20m in the Jan window also.

After being such a mess of a club for a decade by god its frustrating, upsetting to so many of us. Only reason is that we all care. To move forward we all need to pull together in the same direction and allow time.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 19, 2019, 09:42:10 AM
He started off talking about tactics.  Now he's just resorted to lazy Bruceisms and blaming the ref.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: GordonCowansisthegreatest on February 19, 2019, 10:06:26 AM
Quote from: Risso on February 19, 2019, 09:42:10 AM
He started off talking about tactics.  Now he's just resorted to lazy Bruceisms and blaming the ref.
What else can he say?
Difficult to tell the truth, they can't/won't do as they're told and no other choices fit and available.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dalians umbrella on February 19, 2019, 10:10:19 AM
Quote from: The Edge on February 18, 2019, 10:09:51 PM
As for Jack's injury we were told at the time that it was a cumulative effect of him being the most fouled player in the league. I do however think that he doesn't help himself with those tiny shin pads he prefers. I'd also like to add that I think what's definitely a big problem with the team right now is the amount of players who know they aren't part of our long term future. I think it must be really be difficult to motivate all those affected.

You wouldn't get a stress fracture from being fouled.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dalians umbrella on February 19, 2019, 10:11:21 AM
Quote from: Villan For Life on February 19, 2019, 06:59:01 AM
I don’t believe for a minute that the injuries to Jack, Axel and others are stress related and due to the amount of running that they are now required to do.

They’re not fast bowlers slamming their front foot down at the point of delivery. They’re footballers playing on relatively soft, well tended grass. Jack’s injury was bound to happen sooner or later in this league where he was the most fouled player in the division.

A few weeks ago, in a post-match interview on WM, Dean Smith admitted that Jack had a "stress injury"

Also, you don't need to be slamming your foot down to get a stress fracture (and fast bowlers commonly get stress fractures in their back due to that) - nurses can get stress fractures in their feet just from standing for long periods.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dalians umbrella on February 19, 2019, 10:17:34 AM
Quote from: Clampy on February 19, 2019, 07:31:45 AM
If it was about the amount of running they are doing, why has Mcginn managed to play mostly every game since he's been here? He runs more than most. It's a load of Twitter bollocks which only the gullible fall for.


Firstly, just to clarify, I was talking about the amount of running on a daily basis in training.

With regards to someone like McGinn who would already be well-accustomed to doing a lot of running, he wouldn't get a stress fracture if Villa's training load suddenly increased because his body (i.e. bone density) would have already adapted over a long period of time to cope with the kinds of running loads he does in matches (and presumably in training at previous clubs)

The people most at risk would be those who are unaccustomed to the kinds of running loads they are now being (hypothetically) asked to do,  and / or those with some kind of biomechanical predisposition to getting a stress fracture. Not everyone's body is the same and not everyone's running pattern is the same.

Tibial stress fractures are very common in army recruits but whole regiments don't get them at the same time - but if quite a few recruits are all getting injured at once, you'd want to take a look at the training load. But you wouldn't say "there isn't a problem because Corporal Jones hasn't got injured".
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: boozey182 on February 19, 2019, 11:04:30 AM
It's hard for everybody at the moment. I would hesitate to blame our fans for being a bit twitchy over our recent form, because quite frankly, we've been here far too often recently. And the fact that we're still here shows you that it has never ended well. We're nervous, we have been burned too many times recently, and we're finding (pretty much blind) faith difficult to project at the moment. Plus, more specifically, we know that the rest of this season fading away to insignificance means that we're almost certainly going to lose our best home grown player in a generation. And that really hurts.

So the atmosphere is fraught, to say the least. It's not as 'toxic' as has been suggested elsewhere, although it has taken a worrying turn in the last week or so, and we desperately need something to get behind. The Sheffield United comeback should have been it, but the result (and performance) in midweek burst that balloon before it was inflated - Saturday just sliced a knife through it. I'm not sure that this is a situation the fans can drag the team out of though - but like the desperate housewife offering another 'one more chance', we just need to see some evidence that things will be different this time.

It's hard for Dean Smith as well. We all know that Bruce had quite a few runs like this that he survived; in fact, one was always around the corner with him, and you could argue that if we'd have got rid of him after the first one, we would be in a much better position now. Or that we wouldn't. Smith seems to have the unwavering support of the board, and that seems like a good thing (although that relies on more faith from our point of view). I don't think he's worrying about his job's security, just on how to do it well. He's sticking to the type of football he wants us to play, no matter what the results and whether the current squad are capable of doing it. Whether this is a sensible first step to turning the ethos of the entire club around, or recklessly stubborn behaviour from a manager unable to adapt depends on your point of view I guess. Personally, I think it's the former, but I would be lying if I wasn't concerned that there might be something in the latter. I don't think he expected the players to struggle so much with a higher tempo.

It's also hard for the players. They were, largely, assembled by a manager who (I reckon) was an absolute dream to work with. You wouldn't see him much during the week, and he always seemed to want to be your best mate - a nice bloke that wanted you just to do your thing. All of a sudden you need to be fitter, play outside your comfort zone, work harder all week (assuming training has become more intense), take responsibility for all aspects of the game, and, for the last couple of months, cover for the best player in the league. It's tough, and they're struggling. Conor Hourihane is probably getting the most stick at the moment, and while I've never been a fan of his, I don't think he's a bad professional. I imagine he probably works hard at training, and tries to be better. Ultimately, though, I think he's a coward, who was never physically or mentally capable of playing for a club as big as Aston Villa. And I think he knows that. He didn't trudge off the pitch on Saturday as a petulant protest at his reception, he did it because he's broken, exhausted and exposed. He was never meant to be here, playing this type of football. And the same goes for a lot of them. You can't train that out of people in a few months.

So what happens now? Well, barring a miracle, we'll be in this league again next season. As others have said, it will be the busiest summer we've had for over 20 years. So many players need to go, and a few will go that we desperately want to keep, and I can see a lot of work going on with the backroom staff as well (I note Terry was at the Chelsea game last night, when our reserves were playing at Bescott - something has changed since he first arrived, whether it's his decision or Smith's). It will be a recruitment drive like many of us have never seen before, and we need to get it right. It's already started. I really hope we focus on the mental side of our new signings. Tyrone Mings seems to get it. More of him, please.

There will be no excuses next season, including 'time to bed in'. Sorry. You get a preseason and then we start winning. Or I'm afraid that the current 'toxic' atmosphere will be looked back on with great fondness. What will help a great deal, though, is to take with us some goodwill from the next few months. So we need to find a way to stop this rot; a fluky deflection in the last minute, a sending off for the opposition, a dodgy penalty, a goalkeeping error in our favour. Or maybe just our best player being fit again. I want to look back on the rest of the season, being able to say to my son "when he started getting a tune out of that pile of rubbish, I knew we had the right manager". Come on Dean, you've got this.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 19, 2019, 11:28:57 AM
Nice post Boozey.
As we are talking next season, my 3 wishes are.
Put the Team in a Villa shirt.
Stop playing LBIA.
And get rid of all the wasters and misfits.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on February 19, 2019, 11:31:58 AM
Quote from: dalians umbrella on February 19, 2019, 10:17:34 AM
Quote from: Clampy on February 19, 2019, 07:31:45 AM
If it was about the amount of running they are doing, why has Mcginn managed to play mostly every game since he's been here? He runs more than most. It's a load of Twitter bollocks which only the gullible fall for.


Firstly, just to clarify, I was talking about the amount of running on a daily basis in training.

With regards to someone like McGinn who would already be well-accustomed to doing a lot of running, he wouldn't get a stress fracture if Villa's training load suddenly increased because his body (i.e. bone density) would have already adapted over a long period of time to cope with the kinds of running loads he does in matches (and presumably in training at previous clubs)

The people most at risk would be those who are unaccustomed to the kinds of running loads they are now being (hypothetically) asked to do,  and / or those with some kind of biomechanical predisposition to getting a stress fracture. Not everyone's body is the same and not everyone's running pattern is the same.

Tibial stress fractures are very common in army recruits but whole regiments don't get them at the same time - but if quite a few recruits are all getting injured at once, you'd want to take a look at the training load. But you wouldn't say "there isn't a problem because Corporal Jones hasn't got injured".
Ok I get that your qualified to speak on this particular subject as you sound very clued up on it so I'm guessing your in the profession. Therefore you have most of us at a disadvantage. But surely a football club like Aston Villa will have their own medical staff to advise the coaching staff and point out that their training methods were putting our players at risk? These aren't army recruits they're highly paid footballers as such the club is duty bound to get them to peak fitness levels and performance. Bielsa at Leeds is legendary for his lung bursting double training sessions and it seems to be paying dividends at Leeds.
If what your saying is correct and our coaches are causing our players to get injured then we have some serious problems with the set up at our club and our owners Edens and Sawiris must be piss poor at running football clubs.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: McGraths Dry Cleaning on February 19, 2019, 12:20:32 PM
Quote from: The Edge on February 19, 2019, 11:31:58 AM
Quote from: dalians umbrella on February 19, 2019, 10:17:34 AM
Quote from: Clampy on February 19, 2019, 07:31:45 AM
If it was about the amount of running they are doing, why has Mcginn managed to play mostly every game since he's been here? He runs more than most. It's a load of Twitter bollocks which only the gullible fall for.


Firstly, just to clarify, I was talking about the amount of running on a daily basis in training.

With regards to someone like McGinn who would already be well-accustomed to doing a lot of running, he wouldn't get a stress fracture if Villa's training load suddenly increased because his body (i.e. bone density) would have already adapted over a long period of time to cope with the kinds of running loads he does in matches (and presumably in training at previous clubs)

The people most at risk would be those who are unaccustomed to the kinds of running loads they are now being (hypothetically) asked to do,  and / or those with some kind of biomechanical predisposition to getting a stress fracture. Not everyone's body is the same and not everyone's running pattern is the same.

Tibial stress fractures are very common in army recruits but whole regiments don't get them at the same time - but if quite a few recruits are all getting injured at once, you'd want to take a look at the training load. But you wouldn't say "there isn't a problem because Corporal Jones hasn't got injured".
Ok I get that your qualified to speak on this particular subject as you sound very clued up on it so I'm guessing your in the profession. Therefore you have most of us at a disadvantage. But surely a football club like Aston Villa will have their own medical staff to advise the coaching staff and point out that their training methods were putting our players at risk? These aren't army recruits they're highly paid footballers as such the club is duty bound to get them to peak fitness levels and performance. Bielsa at Leeds is legendary for his lung bursting double training sessions and it seems to be paying dividends at Leeds.
If what your saying is correct and our coaches are causing our players to get injured then we have some serious problems with the set up at our club and our owners Edens and Sawiris must be piss poor at running football clubs.

I contend Villa is dysfunctional at every level so having poor coaches/medical/fitness would fit my view (that is not supported by anything other than watching Villa regularly and seeing them knackered and unable to do basics like passing, throw ins and moving when they don't have the ball).

I'd never thought about the injury thing but now its been mentioned we do seem to get a lot injured in training.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on February 19, 2019, 12:22:41 PM
Quote from: Pete3206 on February 19, 2019, 06:51:56 AM
When are people going to learn that Twitter is not Reuters and full of fluff and bullshit?*
 

What about when it's from Reuters' Twitter account?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Border villan on February 19, 2019, 12:30:57 PM
Perhaps they are not used to doing as much running as they did when they had to circumnavigate SB at Bodymoor Heath.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sid1964 on February 19, 2019, 12:37:01 PM
over the recent seasons it does seem to matter how many fitness coaches we have, our players just never look fit!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Marlon From Bearwood on February 19, 2019, 01:02:34 PM
I’ve no idea what goes on in training however since Smith arrived, the number of players suffering serious / long term injuries not related to an incident in a match seems unusually high;   

Jack
Axel
Nyland
Carroll
Davis?
Lansbury?
BB?

Not sure of the last 3. Was off the top of my head. There could be more.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on February 19, 2019, 01:36:33 PM
Quote from: Marlon From Bearwood on February 19, 2019, 01:02:34 PM
I’ve no idea what goes on in training however since Smith arrived, the number of players suffering serious / long term injuries not related to an incident in a match seems unusually high;   

Jack
Axel
Nyland
Carroll
Davis?
Lansbury?
BB?

Not sure of the last 3. Was off the top of my head. There could be more.

I expect there are two issues here. It tends to be the standard when a new manager comes in to try to improve fitness levels. The likes of Redknapp and Pardew would the types to preach about this early into their reigns at various clubs, in their case to deflect from possibly poor results and to get their mates in as fitness coaches. I don't think/hope Smith would have such an agenda but midway during the season is not the time for such a transformation with players who patently aren't suited to it. We may well be paying for that now.

The bigger issue for me is that AVFC seem way behind other clubs in sport science and management of load on young players. The likes of RHM, Green and Davis continue to struggle with soft tissue muscle injuries. If it were one player that could may be explained but I think there is a fundamental issue there that pre dates Bruce and Smith.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 19, 2019, 03:34:55 PM
All well and good, but when you're contemplating theories based on information straight out of an attention seeking fantasist imagination, then the quality of your theory is diminished somewhat.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on February 19, 2019, 03:46:40 PM
Quote from: Ads on February 19, 2019, 03:34:55 PM
All well and good, but when you're contemplating theories based on information straight out of an attention seeking fantasist imagination, then the quality of your theory is diminished somewhat.
That's what im getting at. Thanks for putting it more succinctly than i managed.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on February 19, 2019, 04:18:51 PM
I was lost at the theory of squarebashing being the same as fitness training. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on February 19, 2019, 06:34:09 PM
Quote from: boozey182 on February 19, 2019, 11:04:30 AM
It's hard for everybody at the moment. I would hesitate to blame our fans for being a bit twitchy over our recent form, because quite frankly, we've been here far too often recently. And the fact that we're still here shows you that it has never ended well. We're nervous, we have been burned too many times recently, and we're finding (pretty much blind) faith difficult to project at the moment. Plus, more specifically, we know that the rest of this season fading away to insignificance means that we're almost certainly going to lose our best home grown player in a generation. And that really hurts.

So the atmosphere is fraught, to say the least. It's not as 'toxic' as has been suggested elsewhere, although it has taken a worrying turn in the last week or so, and we desperately need something to get behind. The Sheffield United comeback should have been it, but the result (and performance) in midweek burst that balloon before it was inflated - Saturday just sliced a knife through it. I'm not sure that this is a situation the fans can drag the team out of though - but like the desperate housewife offering another 'one more chance', we just need to see some evidence that things will be different this time.

It's hard for Dean Smith as well. We all know that Bruce had quite a few runs like this that he survived; in fact, one was always around the corner with him, and you could argue that if we'd have got rid of him after the first one, we would be in a much better position now. Or that we wouldn't. Smith seems to have the unwavering support of the board, and that seems like a good thing (although that relies on more faith from our point of view). I don't think he's worrying about his job's security, just on how to do it well. He's sticking to the type of football he wants us to play, no matter what the results and whether the current squad are capable of doing it. Whether this is a sensible first step to turning the ethos of the entire club around, or recklessly stubborn behaviour from a manager unable to adapt depends on your point of view I guess. Personally, I think it's the former, but I would be lying if I wasn't concerned that there might be something in the latter. I don't think he expected the players to struggle so much with a higher tempo.

It's also hard for the players. They were, largely, assembled by a manager who (I reckon) was an absolute dream to work with. You wouldn't see him much during the week, and he always seemed to want to be your best mate - a nice bloke that wanted you just to do your thing. All of a sudden you need to be fitter, play outside your comfort zone, work harder all week (assuming training has become more intense), take responsibility for all aspects of the game, and, for the last couple of months, cover for the best player in the league. It's tough, and they're struggling. Conor Hourihane is probably getting the most stick at the moment, and while I've never been a fan of his, I don't think he's a bad professional. I imagine he probably works hard at training, and tries to be better. Ultimately, though, I think he's a coward, who was never physically or mentally capable of playing for a club as big as Aston Villa. And I think he knows that. He didn't trudge off the pitch on Saturday as a petulant protest at his reception, he did it because he's broken, exhausted and exposed. He was never meant to be here, playing this type of football. And the same goes for a lot of them. You can't train that out of people in a few months.

So what happens now? Well, barring a miracle, we'll be in this league again next season. As others have said, it will be the busiest summer we've had for over 20 years. So many players need to go, and a few will go that we desperately want to keep, and I can see a lot of work going on with the backroom staff as well (I note Terry was at the Chelsea game last night, when our reserves were playing at Bescott - something has changed since he first arrived, whether it's his decision or Smith's). It will be a recruitment drive like many of us have never seen before, and we need to get it right. It's already started. I really hope we focus on the mental side of our new signings. Tyrone Mings seems to get it. More of him, please.

There will be no excuses next season, including 'time to bed in'. Sorry. You get a preseason and then we start winning. Or I'm afraid that the current 'toxic' atmosphere will be looked back on with great fondness. What will help a great deal, though, is to take with us some goodwill from the next few months. So we need to find a way to stop this rot; a fluky deflection in the last minute, a sending off for the opposition, a dodgy penalty, a goalkeeping error in our favour. Or maybe just our best player being fit again. I want to look back on the rest of the season, being able to say to my son "when he started getting a tune out of that pile of rubbish, I knew we had the right manager". Come on Dean, you've got this.

Reading this made me want to stand and ovate! Very well said.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: garyshawsknee on February 19, 2019, 06:41:24 PM
Well written boozey, you've actually made me look forward to next season. We only have to look at Bristol City. Johnson was nearly fired for losing something like 6 on the trot, I was amazed to hear that they have recently won 9 on the bounce, so it can be done. Something does seem up with the Terry appointment, maybe shoe horning him in wasn't the best idea, i'm sure something will come out in the wash during the summer.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: West Derby Villan on February 19, 2019, 06:57:26 PM
Terrific, accurate post Boozey.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 19, 2019, 07:07:14 PM
Good post Boozy.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on February 19, 2019, 07:33:54 PM
Quote from: boozey182 on February 19, 2019, 11:04:30 AM
It's hard for everybody at the moment. I would hesitate to blame our fans for being a bit twitchy over our recent form, because quite frankly, we've been here far too often recently. And the fact that we're still here shows you that it has never ended well. We're nervous, we have been burned too many times recently, and we're finding (pretty much blind) faith difficult to project at the moment. Plus, more specifically, we know that the rest of this season fading away to insignificance means that we're almost certainly going to lose our best home grown player in a generation. And that really hurts.

So the atmosphere is fraught, to say the least. It's not as 'toxic' as has been suggested elsewhere, although it has taken a worrying turn in the last week or so, and we desperately need something to get behind. The Sheffield United comeback should have been it, but the result (and performance) in midweek burst that balloon before it was inflated - Saturday just sliced a knife through it. I'm not sure that this is a situation the fans can drag the team out of though - but like the desperate housewife offering another 'one more chance', we just need to see some evidence that things will be different this time.

It's hard for Dean Smith as well. We all know that Bruce had quite a few runs like this that he survived; in fact, one was always around the corner with him, and you could argue that if we'd have got rid of him after the first one, we would be in a much better position now. Or that we wouldn't. Smith seems to have the unwavering support of the board, and that seems like a good thing (although that relies on more faith from our point of view). I don't think he's worrying about his job's security, just on how to do it well. He's sticking to the type of football he wants us to play, no matter what the results and whether the current squad are capable of doing it. Whether this is a sensible first step to turning the ethos of the entire club around, or recklessly stubborn behaviour from a manager unable to adapt depends on your point of view I guess. Personally, I think it's the former, but I would be lying if I wasn't concerned that there might be something in the latter. I don't think he expected the players to struggle so much with a higher tempo.

It's also hard for the players. They were, largely, assembled by a manager who (I reckon) was an absolute dream to work with. You wouldn't see him much during the week, and he always seemed to want to be your best mate - a nice bloke that wanted you just to do your thing. All of a sudden you need to be fitter, play outside your comfort zone, work harder all week (assuming training has become more intense), take responsibility for all aspects of the game, and, for the last couple of months, cover for the best player in the league. It's tough, and they're struggling. Conor Hourihane is probably getting the most stick at the moment, and while I've never been a fan of his, I don't think he's a bad professional. I imagine he probably works hard at training, and tries to be better. Ultimately, though, I think he's a coward, who was never physically or mentally capable of playing for a club as big as Aston Villa. And I think he knows that. He didn't trudge off the pitch on Saturday as a petulant protest at his reception, he did it because he's broken, exhausted and exposed. He was never meant to be here, playing this type of football. And the same goes for a lot of them. You can't train that out of people in a few months.

So what happens now? Well, barring a miracle, we'll be in this league again next season. As others have said, it will be the busiest summer we've had for over 20 years. So many players need to go, and a few will go that we desperately want to keep, and I can see a lot of work going on with the backroom staff as well (I note Terry was at the Chelsea game last night, when our reserves were playing at Bescott - something has changed since he first arrived, whether it's his decision or Smith's). It will be a recruitment drive like many of us have never seen before, and we need to get it right. It's already started. I really hope we focus on the mental side of our new signings. Tyrone Mings seems to get it. More of him, please.

There will be no excuses next season, including 'time to bed in'. Sorry. You get a preseason and then we start winning. Or I'm afraid that the current 'toxic' atmosphere will be looked back on with great fondness. What will help a great deal, though, is to take with us some goodwill from the next few months. So we need to find a way to stop this rot; a fluky deflection in the last minute, a sending off for the opposition, a dodgy penalty, a goalkeeping error in our favour. Or maybe just our best player being fit again. I want to look back on the rest of the season, being able to say to my son "when he started getting a tune out of that pile of rubbish, I knew we had the right manager". Come on Dean, you've got this.
That's an excellent and well thought out rant Boozey. Some great points in there and like the rest of us you obviously care deeply about all things AVFC. Some of the more nervy bed wetting types should take a good look at what you put. We need to pull together and be strong for the greater good of our club. The good times lie ahead I'm sure of it. Like David Bradley said in the brilliant 140 years of Aston Villa video "inevitably along with the highs come the lows. But the lows just make the highs higher"
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on February 19, 2019, 07:36:15 PM
Excuse me Boozey ......this is H&V - we don't do optimism or pragmatism ;)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on February 19, 2019, 08:09:19 PM
Woe, woe and thrice woe is our schtick
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AVH87 on February 19, 2019, 09:34:42 PM
Very good post Boozey, hit the nail on the head and the bit about Hourihane really sums it up. I don't think he's lazy or got a bad attitude, it's just swallowing him up whereas others have taken the easy way out and not got themselves fit, or been loaned out, or stopped trying and found themselves left out.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on February 19, 2019, 09:36:28 PM
Quote from: AVH87 on February 19, 2019, 09:34:42 PM
Very good post Boozey, hit the nail on the head and the bit about Hourihane really sums it up. I don't think he's lazy or got a bad attitude, it's just swallowing him up whereas others have taken the easy way out and not got themselves fit, or been loaned out, or stopped trying and found themselves left out.

Too true.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AV82EC on February 19, 2019, 09:55:21 PM
Quote from: boozey182 on February 19, 2019, 11:04:30 AM
It's hard for everybody at the moment. I would hesitate to blame our fans for being a bit twitchy over our recent form, because quite frankly, we've been here far too often recently. And the fact that we're still here shows you that it has never ended well. We're nervous, we have been burned too many times recently, and we're finding (pretty much blind) faith difficult to project at the moment. Plus, more specifically, we know that the rest of this season fading away to insignificance means that we're almost certainly going to lose our best home grown player in a generation. And that really hurts.

So the atmosphere is fraught, to say the least. It's not as 'toxic' as has been suggested elsewhere, although it has taken a worrying turn in the last week or so, and we desperately need something to get behind. The Sheffield United comeback should have been it, but the result (and performance) in midweek burst that balloon before it was inflated - Saturday just sliced a knife through it. I'm not sure that this is a situation the fans can drag the team out of though - but like the desperate housewife offering another 'one more chance', we just need to see some evidence that things will be different this time.

It's hard for Dean Smith as well. We all know that Bruce had quite a few runs like this that he survived; in fact, one was always around the corner with him, and you could argue that if we'd have got rid of him after the first one, we would be in a much better position now. Or that we wouldn't. Smith seems to have the unwavering support of the board, and that seems like a good thing (although that relies on more faith from our point of view). I don't think he's worrying about his job's security, just on how to do it well. He's sticking to the type of football he wants us to play, no matter what the results and whether the current squad are capable of doing it. Whether this is a sensible first step to turning the ethos of the entire club around, or recklessly stubborn behaviour from a manager unable to adapt depends on your point of view I guess. Personally, I think it's the former, but I would be lying if I wasn't concerned that there might be something in the latter. I don't think he expected the players to struggle so much with a higher tempo.

It's also hard for the players. They were, largely, assembled by a manager who (I reckon) was an absolute dream to work with. You wouldn't see him much during the week, and he always seemed to want to be your best mate - a nice bloke that wanted you just to do your thing. All of a sudden you need to be fitter, play outside your comfort zone, work harder all week (assuming training has become more intense), take responsibility for all aspects of the game, and, for the last couple of months, cover for the best player in the league. It's tough, and they're struggling. Conor Hourihane is probably getting the most stick at the moment, and while I've never been a fan of his, I don't think he's a bad professional. I imagine he probably works hard at training, and tries to be better. Ultimately, though, I think he's a coward, who was never physically or mentally capable of playing for a club as big as Aston Villa. And I think he knows that. He didn't trudge off the pitch on Saturday as a petulant protest at his reception, he did it because he's broken, exhausted and exposed. He was never meant to be here, playing this type of football. And the same goes for a lot of them. You can't train that out of people in a few months.

So what happens now? Well, barring a miracle, we'll be in this league again next season. As others have said, it will be the busiest summer we've had for over 20 years. So many players need to go, and a few will go that we desperately want to keep, and I can see a lot of work going on with the backroom staff as well (I note Terry was at the Chelsea game last night, when our reserves were playing at Bescott - something has changed since he first arrived, whether it's his decision or Smith's). It will be a recruitment drive like many of us have never seen before, and we need to get it right. It's already started. I really hope we focus on the mental side of our new signings. Tyrone Mings seems to get it. More of him, please.

There will be no excuses next season, including 'time to bed in'. Sorry. You get a preseason and then we start winning. Or I'm afraid that the current 'toxic' atmosphere will be looked back on with great fondness. What will help a great deal, though, is to take with us some goodwill from the next few months. So we need to find a way to stop this rot; a fluky deflection in the last minute, a sending off for the opposition, a dodgy penalty, a goalkeeping error in our favour. Or maybe just our best player being fit again. I want to look back on the rest of the season, being able to say to my son "when he started getting a tune out of that pile of rubbish, I knew we had the right manager". Come on Dean, you've got this.

What a great post. Standing Ovation for boozey.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdward on February 19, 2019, 10:57:12 PM
Three cheers for Boozey would seem more appropriate..
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on February 19, 2019, 11:37:49 PM
Quote from: Marlon From Bearwood on February 19, 2019, 01:02:34 PM
I’ve no idea what goes on in training however since Smith arrived, the number of players suffering serious / long term injuries not related to an incident in a match seems unusually high;   

Jack
Axel
Nyland
Carroll
Davis?
Lansbury?
BB?

Not sure of the last 3. Was off the top of my head. There could be more.


Wasn't Jack injury picked up in the WBA match?

Carroll missed 3 months for Swansea and should be back this weekend. Davis, Lansbury and Bjarni all missed loads of games in last 12 months, they're just all injury prone.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on February 20, 2019, 01:14:58 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on February 19, 2019, 11:37:49 PM
Quote from: Marlon From Bearwood on February 19, 2019, 01:02:34 PM
I’ve no idea what goes on in training however since Smith arrived, the number of players suffering serious / long term injuries not related to an incident in a match seems unusually high;   

Jack
Axel
Nyland
Carroll
Davis?
Lansbury?
BB?

Not sure of the last 3. Was off the top of my head. There could be more.


Wasn't Jack injury picked up in the WBA match?

Carroll missed 3 months for Swansea and should be back this weekend. Davis, Lansbury and Bjarni all missed loads of games in last 12 months, they're just all injury prone.

I wouldn't say injury prone, I'd just say that they've struggled getting fit after previous injuries, which isn't the same thing at all. Lansbury in particular had no real injury record to speak of before he joined, a couple of 5-6 week injuries in his career before the last season backs that up.

On the rest, Jack got scans after West Brom but the type of injury it is will have been building for a while, Carroll arrived mid-recovery and has had a small relapse, Axel does seem to be a bit injury prone and Nyland's injury is a bit of a freak accident. I don't know if this is just bad luck or because of training but there's enough there to suggest that it's just coincidence.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on February 20, 2019, 01:26:49 PM
Boozy's post is very good, but what is it with the current trend of calling everyone cowards? 

Hourihane may not be everyone's cup of tea, but I really don't see how limitations as a footballer makes him a coward.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on February 20, 2019, 01:54:50 PM
If Sarri goes, don't be surprised to see Terry feck off to be with Lampard at Chelsea.  I won't be sorry.  There was a stat doing the rounds last night that Hourihane I think has a lot more assists than a lot of other so called great midfielders in this league - I think someone said it was the most in the championship but I am not sure that is right.  He may be limited, he may be being consumed by a complete lack of confidence, but, it is worth remembering that without him we wouldn't have made the play offs last season. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on February 20, 2019, 06:19:16 PM
I was hoping that twitter thing was true about the running

I’ve got no problem with him running the little fuckers hard
I’m pissed of that we are always the team that runs out of legs first

run them hard get them proper fit like Bielsa does and the ones who can’t hack it  can fuck off

.........imo........
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Scott Nielsen on February 21, 2019, 12:16:46 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on February 20, 2019, 01:26:49 PM
Boozy's post is very good, but what is it with the current trend of calling everyone cowards? 

Hourihane may not be everyone's cup of tea, but I really don't see how limitations as a footballer makes him a coward.

I thought the same. He's gotten a lot of abuse on here but that's a proper insult. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chris Smith on February 21, 2019, 12:57:57 PM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on February 20, 2019, 01:54:50 PM
If Sarri goes, don't be surprised to see Terry feck off to be with Lampard at Chelsea.  I won't be sorry.  There was a stat doing the rounds last night that Hourihane I think has a lot more assists than a lot of other so called great midfielders in this league - I think someone said it was the most in the championship but I am not sure that is right.  He may be limited, he may be being consumed by a complete lack of confidence, but, it is worth remembering that without him we wouldn't have made the play offs last season. 

I don’t see them picking a manager whose team has just lost at home to Milwall whatever his playing history with them is.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: andyh on February 21, 2019, 01:26:32 PM
Hmmmmm, an interesting Stoke pre match press conference.
First question about what is needed to get us going on a run and Smith responded straight away with ‘togetherness’ which strikes me as a strange answer to give.

Jack not ready for Saturday and Smith did seem a little guarded in his response.

Maybe I’m reading too much into it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: boozey182 on February 21, 2019, 01:28:17 PM
Quote from: Scott Nielsen on February 21, 2019, 12:16:46 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on February 20, 2019, 01:26:49 PM
Boozy's post is very good, but what is it with the current trend of calling everyone cowards? 

Hourihane may not be everyone's cup of tea, but I really don't see how limitations as a footballer makes him a coward.

I thought the same. He's gotten a lot of abuse on here but that's a proper insult. 

I don't think I meant it to be as cutting as it probably comes across. I was basically was trying to say that I actually think he's a decent footballer, and probably a good professional. I think the reason it's not working for him is a mental one; I don't think he's tough enough to deal with the responsibility that is being thrust upon him. He finds space when the opposition have the ball, and tightly marks the nearest player when our defenders need someone to give it to. He does also pull out of fifty-fifty challenges, which does add weight to the 'coward' label, but maybe that is a bit harsh. I dunno. Like I said, I don't think he was ever supposed to be playing this role, for a club as big as us.

Ideally, if he's still here next year, you'd have him on the bench to bring on when you are on the front foot. He did excellently coming off the bench earlier in the season, but the conditions need to be exactly right for him to influence a game.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on February 21, 2019, 06:49:01 PM
Quote from: andyh on February 21, 2019, 01:26:32 PM
... Smith responded straight away with ‘togetherness’ which strikes me as a strange answer to give....

I don't find it strange. Smith appears to be struggling to bring all his players on the journey he wants them to be on - the high-energy, pressing game with lots of pass and move. Hourihane, Whelan, BB, Kodjia, Adomah, El Ghazi ... all of these seem to be struggling to maintain the energy levels or motivation to do it; hence the likely clear-out in June.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 22, 2019, 09:23:45 PM
Quote from: Scott Nielsen on February 21, 2019, 12:16:46 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on February 20, 2019, 01:26:49 PM
Boozy's post is very good, but what is it with the current trend of calling everyone cowards? 

Hourihane may not be everyone's cup of tea, but I really don't see how limitations as a footballer makes him a coward.

I thought the same. He's gotten a lot of abuse on here but that's a proper insult.
Well jumping out of challenges as often as he  has recently allways has the potential to attract that type of comment.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villa75 on February 22, 2019, 10:32:08 PM
Does anyone know where the 'Dean Smith' thread is?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Diablo on February 23, 2019, 01:36:06 PM
Quote from: Mister E on February 21, 2019, 06:49:01 PM
Quote from: andyh on February 21, 2019, 01:26:32 PM
... Smith responded straight away with ‘togetherness’ which strikes me as a strange answer to give....

I don't find it strange. Smith appears to be struggling to bring all his players on the journey he wants them to be on - the high-energy, pressing game with lots of pass and move. Hourihane, Whelan, BB, Kodjia, Adomah, El Ghazi ... all of these seem to be struggling to maintain the energy levels or motivation to do it; hence the likely clear-out in June.
Mings also said something similar in his last interview as did Elphick prior to that (a togetherness theme seems to have emerged).
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on February 23, 2019, 01:49:33 PM
remember that advert

‘We wanna be together’
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Axl Rose on February 23, 2019, 01:57:35 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 22, 2019, 09:23:45 PM
Quote from: Scott Nielsen on February 21, 2019, 12:16:46 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on February 20, 2019, 01:26:49 PM
Boozy's post is very good, but what is it with the current trend of calling everyone cowards? 

Hourihane may not be everyone's cup of tea, but I really don't see how limitations as a footballer makes him a coward.

I thought the same. He's gotten a lot of abuse on here but that's a proper insult.
Well jumping out of challenges as often as he  has recently allways has the potential to attract that type of comment.



chrisw1, you were a.staunch defender of Westwood,if I remember correctly. And now Hourihane? Bizarre.

Coward or no coward, Hourihane is dreadful. We are in the position we are now because we've accepted inept players.

Westwood, Hourihane..not good enough. Add Whelan to that list. He'll be picked today. He'll be shit. We'll lose. We'll moan. And rightly so.

They need hounding out. All of them.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on February 23, 2019, 02:00:55 PM
Yeah let's hound out players we don't like, I don't see any downside to that idea.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Axl Rose on February 23, 2019, 02:07:33 PM
Me neither.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on February 23, 2019, 02:27:34 PM
It's a daft idea and never comes out well.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on February 23, 2019, 03:35:23 PM
fanor not Dean won't survive much more of this shit.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on February 23, 2019, 03:45:51 PM
Quote from: Axl Rose on February 23, 2019, 01:57:35 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 22, 2019, 09:23:45 PM
Quote from: Scott Nielsen on February 21, 2019, 12:16:46 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on February 20, 2019, 01:26:49 PM
Boozy's post is very good, but what is it with the current trend of calling everyone cowards? 

Hourihane may not be everyone's cup of tea, but I really don't see how limitations as a footballer makes him a coward.

I thought the same. He's gotten a lot of abuse on here but that's a proper insult.
Well jumping out of challenges as often as he  has recently allways has the potential to attract that type of comment.



chrisw1, you were a.staunch defender of Westwood,if I remember correctly. And now Hourihane? Bizarre.

Coward or no coward, Hourihane is dreadful. We are in the position we are now because we've accepted inept players.

Westwood, Hourihane..not good enough. Add Whelan to that list. He'll be picked today. He'll be shit. We'll lose. We'll moan. And rightly so.

They need hounding out. All of them.


Westwood just finished on the winning side against spuds, in the premier league

can't see Hourihane ever doing that
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on February 23, 2019, 06:49:52 PM
Whe
Quote from: john e on February 23, 2019, 03:45:51 PM
Quote from: Axl Rose on February 23, 2019, 01:57:35 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 22, 2019, 09:23:45 PM
Quote from: Scott Nielsen on February 21, 2019, 12:16:46 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on February 20, 2019, 01:26:49 PM
Boozy's post is very good, but what is it with the current trend of calling everyone cowards? 

Hourihane may not be everyone's cup of tea, but I really don't see how limitations as a footballer makes him a coward.

I thought the same. He's gotten a lot of abuse on here but that's a proper insult.
Well jumping out of challenges as often as he  has recently allways has the potential to attract that type of comment.



chrisw1, you were a.staunch defender of Westwood,if I remember correctly. And now Hourihane? Bizarre.

Coward or no coward, Hourihane is dreadful. We are in the position we are now because we've accepted inept players.

Westwood, Hourihane..not good enough. Add Whelan to that list. He'll be picked today. He'll be shit. We'll lose. We'll moan. And rightly so.

They need hounding out. All of them.


Westwood just finished on the winning side against spuds, in the premier league

can't see Hourihane ever doing that

Whelan had a good game today. How do you know Hourihane won’t be in a team that beats Spurs, odd thing to say
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: manic-road on February 23, 2019, 06:53:29 PM
Quote from: Three Spires Villa on February 23, 2019, 06:49:52 PM
Whe
Quote from: john e on February 23, 2019, 03:45:51 PM
Quote from: Axl Rose on February 23, 2019, 01:57:35 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 22, 2019, 09:23:45 PM
Quote from: Scott Nielsen on February 21, 2019, 12:16:46 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on February 20, 2019, 01:26:49 PM
Boozy's post is very good, but what is it with the current trend of calling everyone cowards? 

Hourihane may not be everyone's cup of tea, but I really don't see how limitations as a footballer makes him a coward.

I thought the same. He's gotten a lot of abuse on here but that's a proper insult.
Well jumping out of challenges as often as he  has recently allways has the potential to attract that type of comment.



chrisw1, you were a.staunch defender of Westwood,if I remember correctly. And now Hourihane? Bizarre.

Coward or no coward, Hourihane is dreadful. We are in the position we are now because we've accepted inept players.

Westwood, Hourihane..not good enough. Add Whelan to that list. He'll be picked today. He'll be shit. We'll lose. We'll moan. And rightly so.

They need hounding out. All of them.


Westwood just finished on the winning side against spuds, in the premier league

can't see Hourihane ever doing that

Whelan had a good game today. How do you know Hourihane won’t be in a team that beats Spurs, odd thing to say

Three spires you don't get it do you? Villa fans always look for a scapegoat when things aren't going well.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on February 24, 2019, 09:36:10 AM
Quote from: manic-road on February 23, 2019, 06:53:29 PM
Quote from: Three Spires Villa on February 23, 2019, 06:49:52 PM
Whe
Quote from: john e on February 23, 2019, 03:45:51 PM
Quote from: Axl Rose on February 23, 2019, 01:57:35 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 22, 2019, 09:23:45 PM
Quote from: Scott Nielsen on February 21, 2019, 12:16:46 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on February 20, 2019, 01:26:49 PM
Boozy's post is very good, but what is it with the current trend of calling everyone cowards? 

Hourihane may not be everyone's cup of tea, but I really don't see how limitations as a footballer makes him a coward.

I thought the same. He's gotten a lot of abuse on here but that's a proper insult.
Well jumping out of challenges as often as he  has recently allways has the potential to attract that type of comment.



chrisw1, you were a.staunch defender of Westwood,if I remember correctly. And now Hourihane? Bizarre.

Coward or no coward, Hourihane is dreadful. We are in the position we are now because we've accepted inept players.

Westwood, Hourihane..not good enough. Add Whelan to that list. He'll be picked today. He'll be shit. We'll lose. We'll moan. And rightly so.

They need hounding out. All of them.


Westwood just finished on the winning side against spuds, in the premier league

can't see Hourihane ever doing that

Whelan had a good game today. How do you know Hourihane won’t be in a team that beats Spurs, odd thing to say

Three spires you don't get it do you? Villa fans always look for a scapegoat when things aren't going well.
e

 spoilt for choice at the moment
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: XXVilla on February 24, 2019, 10:16:01 AM
Quote from: john e on February 23, 2019, 03:45:51 PM
Quote from: Axl Rose on February 23, 2019, 01:57:35 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 22, 2019, 09:23:45 PM
Quote from: Scott Nielsen on February 21, 2019, 12:16:46 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on February 20, 2019, 01:26:49 PM
Boozy's post is very good, but what is it with the current trend of calling everyone cowards? 

Hourihane may not be everyone's cup of tea, but I really don't see how limitations as a footballer makes him a coward.

I thought the same. He's gotten a lot of abuse on here but that's a proper insult.
Well jumping out of challenges as often as he  has recently allways has the potential to attract that type of comment.



chrisw1, you were a.staunch defender of Westwood,if I remember correctly. And now Hourihane? Bizarre.

Coward or no coward, Hourihane is dreadful. We are in the position we are now because we've accepted inept players.

Westwood, Hourihane..not good enough. Add Whelan to that list. He'll be picked today. He'll be shit. We'll lose. We'll moan. And rightly so.

They need hounding out. All of them.


Westwood just finished on the winning side against spuds, in the premier league

can't see Hourihane ever doing that

I couldn’t see Westwood doing that either
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on February 24, 2019, 10:32:25 AM
well, the summer's going to be interesting
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on February 24, 2019, 10:49:22 AM
Quote from: XXVilla on February 24, 2019, 10:16:01 AM
Quote from: john e on February 23, 2019, 03:45:51 PM
Quote from: Axl Rose on February 23, 2019, 01:57:35 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 22, 2019, 09:23:45 PM
Quote from: Scott Nielsen on February 21, 2019, 12:16:46 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on February 20, 2019, 01:26:49 PM
Boozy's post is very good, but what is it with the current trend of calling everyone cowards? 

Hourihane may not be everyone's cup of tea, but I really don't see how limitations as a footballer makes him a coward.

I thought the same. He's gotten a lot of abuse on here but that's a proper insult.
Well jumping out of challenges as often as he  has recently allways has the potential to attract that type of comment.



chrisw1, you were a.staunch defender of Westwood,if I remember correctly. And now Hourihane? Bizarre.

Coward or no coward, Hourihane is dreadful. We are in the position we are now because we've accepted inept players.

Westwood, Hourihane..not good enough. Add Whelan to that list. He'll be picked today. He'll be shit. We'll lose. We'll moan. And rightly so.

They need hounding out. All of them.


Westwood just finished on the winning side against spuds, in the premier league

can't see Hourihane ever doing that

I couldn’t see Westwood doing that either

Didn't Westwood play at our win at WHL in 2015? Bacuna is also playing in Cardiff winning games, plenty of poor premier league players play in winning teams.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: XXVilla on February 24, 2019, 12:10:11 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on February 24, 2019, 10:49:22 AM
Quote from: XXVilla on February 24, 2019, 10:16:01 AM
Quote from: john e on February 23, 2019, 03:45:51 PM
Quote from: Axl Rose on February 23, 2019, 01:57:35 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 22, 2019, 09:23:45 PM
Quote from: Scott Nielsen on February 21, 2019, 12:16:46 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on February 20, 2019, 01:26:49 PM
Boozy's post is very good, but what is it with the current trend of calling everyone cowards? 

Hourihane may not be everyone's cup of tea, but I really don't see how limitations as a footballer makes him a coward.

I thought the same. He's gotten a lot of abuse on here but that's a proper insult.
Well jumping out of challenges as often as he  has recently allways has the potential to attract that type of comment.



chrisw1, you were a.staunch defender of Westwood,if I remember correctly. And now Hourihane? Bizarre.

Coward or no coward, Hourihane is dreadful. We are in the position we are now because we've accepted inept players.

Westwood, Hourihane..not good enough. Add Whelan to that list. He'll be picked today. He'll be shit. We'll lose. We'll moan. And rightly so.

They need hounding out. All of them.


Westwood just finished on the winning side against spuds, in the premier league

can't see Hourihane ever doing that

I couldn’t see Westwood doing that either

Didn't Westwood play at our win at WHL in 2015? Bacuna is also playing in Cardiff winning games, plenty of poor premier league players play in winning teams.

That’s exactly my point. Hourihane could quite possibly end up in a PL team.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on February 25, 2019, 04:41:08 PM
Quote from: Axl Rose on February 23, 2019, 01:57:35 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 22, 2019, 09:23:45 PM
Quote from: Scott Nielsen on February 21, 2019, 12:16:46 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on February 20, 2019, 01:26:49 PM
Boozy's post is very good, but what is it with the current trend of calling everyone cowards? 

Hourihane may not be everyone's cup of tea, but I really don't see how limitations as a footballer makes him a coward.

I thought the same. He's gotten a lot of abuse on here but that's a proper insult.
Well jumping out of challenges as often as he  has recently allways has the potential to attract that type of comment.



chrisw1, you were a.staunch defender of Westwood,if I remember correctly. And now Hourihane? Bizarre.

Coward or no coward, Hourihane is dreadful. We are in the position we are now because we've accepted inept players.

Westwood, Hourihane..not good enough. Add Whelan to that list. He'll be picked today. He'll be shit. We'll lose. We'll moan. And rightly so.

They need hounding out. All of them.

I can't recall being a staunch defender of Westwood, but I doubt I thought he was as bad as others did that's for sure.  You can make you own mind up but personally I'll take Sean Dyche's opinions over those of a few blokes on the internet as final Arbiter on that one.

As for Hourihane, a lot of people have made up their minds about him and that is fine.  I don't think he is a great player, but in the right system he can be very effective,  And whether you like stats or not, his still stand up extremely well.  Ultimately I simply just don't agree that he is as bad as others do, but I do agree he is not impacting on games anywhere near enough at the moment.

But the point I was making was referencing the word 'coward'  It is a pretty nasty term that is getting very over used and I do not accept that a player or managers limited ability, lack of confidence or poor run of form makes them a coward. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 25, 2019, 04:49:45 PM
Westwood was the poster boy for our decline. Absolutely ineffectual, in every sense.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: curiousorange on February 25, 2019, 07:04:37 PM
I think people point to the fact that Westwood is still a Premier League player as proof that it was us who didn't use him properly as opposed to he who was ineffectual. But a lot of players who were absolutely forgettable have played in the Premier League. I wasn't sad we sold him and I'm less than bothered what league he's playing in.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on February 25, 2019, 07:16:00 PM
Hutton is the poster boy for our decline, rightly in the bomb squad to twitter bullshit about retiring his number, nothing about his game has changed but the expectations from the fans have gone from wanting good players to just being happy to see someone look like he gives a shit.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: robleflaneur on February 25, 2019, 07:37:08 PM
Hourihane is a pretty similar player to Westwood.Hourihane the better deadball specialist and finisher,Westwood is a better passer and offers better movement.Both of them can't tackle.
Westwood is in a hardworking ,competitive team and offers that bit of guile in the midfield. For me,Bardsley is the surprise inclusion in the Burnley side.I have a lot of respect for Dean Smith but I think that he erred by not playing Hourihane in an advanced role in Grealish's absence.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on February 25, 2019, 07:44:14 PM
Quote from: robleflaneur on February 25, 2019, 07:37:08 PM
Hourihane is a pretty similar player to Westwood.Hourihane the better deadball specialist and finisher,Westwood is a better passer and offers better movement.Both of them can't tackle.
Westwood is in a hardworking ,competitive team and offers that bit of guile in the midfield. For me,Bardsley is the surprise inclusion in the Burnley side.I have a lot of respect for Dean Smith but I think that he erred by not playing Hourihane in an advanced role in Grealish's absence.

The problem with Hourihane further up field is that his movement is awful so he's easy to mark, playing deeper in a team that's going forward and pressing high he can come from deep and pick things up around the edge of the box but you could only get away with him doing that if you had another deep midfielder who was doing all the defensive work and playing the quarterback role, you'd also end up with Hourihane and McGinn being in each others way. At the start of the season I wanted to see them given some time together (I hoped McGinn could do the deeper ball winner role but he doesn't have the discipline for it and is reat at pressing higher up the pitch), having seen how that works out I think it's one or other with a creative player in front and a ball winner/water carrier behind/alongside.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on February 25, 2019, 08:12:45 PM
Quote from: XXVilla on February 24, 2019, 12:10:11 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on February 24, 2019, 10:49:22 AM
Quote from: XXVilla on February 24, 2019, 10:16:01 AM
Quote from: john e on February 23, 2019, 03:45:51 PM
Quote from: Axl Rose on February 23, 2019, 01:57:35 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 22, 2019, 09:23:45 PM
Quote from: Scott Nielsen on February 21, 2019, 12:16:46 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on February 20, 2019, 01:26:49 PM
Boozy's post is very good, but what is it with the current trend of calling everyone cowards? 

Hourihane may not be everyone's cup of tea, but I really don't see how limitations as a footballer makes him a coward.

I thought the same. He's gotten a lot of abuse on here but that's a proper insult.
Well jumping out of challenges as often as he  has recently allways has the potential to attract that type of comment.



chrisw1, you were a.staunch defender of Westwood,if I remember correctly. And now Hourihane? Bizarre.

Coward or no coward, Hourihane is dreadful. We are in the position we are now because we've accepted inept players.

Westwood, Hourihane..not good enough. Add Whelan to that list. He'll be picked today. He'll be shit. We'll lose. We'll moan. And rightly so.

They need hounding out. All of them.


Westwood just finished on the winning side against spuds, in the premier league

can't see Hourihane ever doing that

I couldn’t see Westwood doing that either

Didn't Westwood play at our win at WHL in 2015? Bacuna is also playing in Cardiff winning games, plenty of poor premier league players play in winning teams.

That’s exactly my point. Hourihane could quite possibly end up in a PL team.

Nah, mid table championship is his level.

He's my barometer for how good our summer transfer window is. If he's still a week in week out starter for us next season then clearly not.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on February 25, 2019, 09:18:26 PM
Quote from: paul_e on February 25, 2019, 07:16:00 PM
Hutton is the poster boy for our decline, rightly in the bomb squad to twitter bullshit about retiring his number, nothing about his game has changed but the expectations from the fans have gone from wanting good players to just being happy to see someone look like he gives a shit.

At the moment, and the last few years, someone who “gives a shit” is a blessing. Ok, at times, & more than a few he had bad games, but he tried. Personally I remember him at Everton 4-0 kicking, the year we went down, the only player who came over to the fans. Does that make him a legend, or a great player, no, did I appreciate it, yes I did. So thanks Alan.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on February 25, 2019, 09:31:01 PM
XXVilla

you are quite right you can’t rule anything out in football
although I still can’t see it happening but you never know

I actually think that Hourihane is the biggest disappointment of all our recent signings over the last 2/3 seasons
not because of the money we payed because he didn’t cost much
and not because he’s been by any means the worst performer there’s been far worse

But I thought he was going to be a star of our midfield, bossing it leading it, controlling it
I had massive hopes for him when he came more than any of the others

I just feel he’s come up short so far


Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on February 25, 2019, 09:57:52 PM
If we go mad a completely break up the current side, ready for this young and energetic style that Dean Smith is talking about, I do not see Hourihane within that.  He lacks fight, guile, bravery.  He's not fast, a good tackler, good in the air.  In fact, I appreciate that he's scored a few goals, but if he didn't take all of our set pieces, what exactly has he got?   He gets the assists because he takes everything bar the goal kicks. 

That said, I also see him as a barometer for my disappointment.  My disappointment in Aston Villa is absolutely mirrored in my disappointment of Conor Hourihane.  It's all so, meh!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on February 26, 2019, 12:19:03 PM
Quote from: Newby on February 25, 2019, 09:57:52 PM
If we go mad a completely break up the current side, ready for this young and energetic style that Dean Smith is talking about, I do not see Hourihane within that.  He lacks fight, guile, bravery.  He's not fast, a good tackler, good in the air.  In fact, I appreciate that he's scored a few goals, but if he didn't take all of our set pieces, what exactly has he got?   He gets the assists because he takes everything bar the goal kicks. 

That said, I also see him as a barometer for my disappointment.  My disappointment in Aston Villa is absolutely mirrored in my disappointment of Conor Hourihane.  It's all so, meh!

As has already been mentioned on this thread, a third of his goals and assists this year have come from open play so he's not a set piece one trick pony.

There's no way he's worse than Westwood and Westwood is an established Premier League player with 176 top flight appearances and counting.  Hourihane's current issues are the result of being asked to do a role he's not suited to.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tomd2103 on February 26, 2019, 01:02:29 PM
Quote from: robleflaneur on February 25, 2019, 07:37:08 PM
Hourihane is a pretty similar player to Westwood.Hourihane the better deadball specialist and finisher,Westwood is a better passer and offers better movement.Both of them can't tackle.
Westwood is in a hardworking ,competitive team and offers that bit of guile in the midfield. For me,Bardsley is the surprise inclusion in the Burnley side.I have a lot of respect for Dean Smith but I think that he erred by not playing Hourihane in an advanced role in Grealish's absence.

Always said that Westwood is OK in the right set up.  If he is playing the defensive midfield role in a three man midfield with two mobile players either side of him, he is OK.  He did pretty well in that system when he had Sylla and Delph (end of Lambert's first season), and then Cleverley and Delph (Sherwood's first few months) alongside him.  Taken out of that system though and he struggled.   
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 26, 2019, 01:25:33 PM
I wish I knew what role he is suited to.
Cutting up the half time oranges?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: robleflaneur on February 26, 2019, 02:30:21 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 26, 2019, 01:25:33 PM
I wish I knew what role he is suited to.
Cutting up the half time oranges?
I presume it's Hourihane that you are referring to as Dean Smith can shoulder more responsibility than being in charge of oranges.Hourihane got a hattrick v Norwich playing a more advanced role and feeding of Davis' lay offs.Bruce barely played him in that position after that.Hourihane,for all his faults,is probably technically the best finisher in the club.Tammy will get into lots of goakscoring positions but will waste a fair few but at this level still scores shed load.For me ,Hourihane if he starts has to play a supporting role for the main striker.
Grealish will always be the better option but if the wide men are misfiring why not 2 central midfielders  in Xmas tree formation or 2 central midfielders at the top of a diamond ?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on February 26, 2019, 02:34:30 PM
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on February 26, 2019, 04:51:39 PM
We won't be getting Brendan Rodgers in the summer then ;)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chris Smith on February 26, 2019, 04:58:50 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on February 26, 2019, 04:51:39 PM
We won't be getting Brendan Rodgers in the summer then ;)

Obviously not as there will be no vacancy.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villa75 on February 26, 2019, 10:57:22 PM
Quote from: Chris Smith on February 26, 2019, 04:58:50 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on February 26, 2019, 04:51:39 PM
We won't be getting Brendan Rodgers in the summer then ;)

Obviously not as there will be no vacancy.

You can't possibly know that?

What if a major Premier League/European club comes and makes Smith an offer he can't refuse?

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on February 26, 2019, 11:01:20 PM
Gone to Leicester. Wow. Brendan must have been truly desperate to get out of Scotland.  I reckon he'd have walked to VP had we offered him the job.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: GordonCowansisthegreatest on February 27, 2019, 12:14:06 AM
Quote from: Villa75 on February 26, 2019, 10:57:22 PM
Quote from: Chris Smith on February 26, 2019, 04:58:50 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on February 26, 2019, 04:51:39 PM
We won't be getting Brendan Rodgers in the summer then ;)

Obviously not as there will be no vacancy.

You can't possibly know that?

What if a major Premier League/European club comes and makes Smith an offer he can't refuse?


He would refuse it!!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on February 27, 2019, 06:30:09 AM
I want to renew my faith in Dean, but that means some big performances between now and Norwich, starting on Saturday.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on February 27, 2019, 07:43:48 AM
Quote from: Villa75 on February 26, 2019, 10:57:22 PM
Quote from: Chris Smith on February 26, 2019, 04:58:50 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on February 26, 2019, 04:51:39 PM
We won't be getting Brendan Rodgers in the summer then ;)

Obviously not as there will be no vacancy.

You can't possibly know that?

What if a major Premier League/European club comes and makes Smith an offer he can't refuse?



Well, If he's doing as poor a job as you say he is, then that probably won't happen.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villa75 on February 27, 2019, 09:22:33 AM
Quote from: Clampy on February 27, 2019, 07:43:48 AM
Quote from: Villa75 on February 26, 2019, 10:57:22 PM
Quote from: Chris Smith on February 26, 2019, 04:58:50 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on February 26, 2019, 04:51:39 PM
We won't be getting Brendan Rodgers in the summer then ;)

Obviously not as there will be no vacancy.

You can't possibly know that?

What if a major Premier League/European club comes and makes Smith an offer he can't refuse?



Well, If he's doing as poor a job as you say he is, then that probably won't happen.

Aha! We have a winner!

😂
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 27, 2019, 09:24:34 AM
The table is looking decidely unclever at the moment, and I think he could really do with it not getting any worse.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on February 27, 2019, 09:36:32 AM
Quote from: Villa75 on February 27, 2019, 09:22:33 AM
Quote from: Clampy on February 27, 2019, 07:43:48 AM
Quote from: Villa75 on February 26, 2019, 10:57:22 PM
Quote from: Chris Smith on February 26, 2019, 04:58:50 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on February 26, 2019, 04:51:39 PM
We won't be getting Brendan Rodgers in the summer then ;)

Obviously not as there will be no vacancy.

You can't possibly know that?

What if a major Premier League/European club comes and makes Smith an offer he can't refuse?



Well, If he's doing as poor a job as you say he is, then that probably won't happen.

Aha! We have a winner!

😂

Its hard to tell sarcasm through the misery sometimes.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on February 27, 2019, 09:37:13 AM
If the next two games go badly he will be under all kinds of pressure. Let's hope Grealish can propel us back up the table and we can forget we ever had any doubts in the manager.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on February 27, 2019, 09:38:56 AM
He's got to get them playing. I'm sorry but if he hasn't got the players to play ''his way'' then he has to go another way for the rest of the season because you can't keep not winning games, falling down the table and blame the players. It's his job to be adaptable and to find the best way of playing each hand he is dealt, if he can't do that and it's one way or bust then he's no good.

I'm not advocating sacking him btw just stating that not having the players he wants isn't really a valid excuse. Win the next 2 games and believe it or not we will probably be back in with an outside shout of the play offs. The division is that way this season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villa75 on February 27, 2019, 09:41:46 AM
Quote from: Clampy on February 27, 2019, 09:36:32 AM
Quote from: Villa75 on February 27, 2019, 09:22:33 AM
Quote from: Clampy on February 27, 2019, 07:43:48 AM
Quote from: Villa75 on February 26, 2019, 10:57:22 PM
Quote from: Chris Smith on February 26, 2019, 04:58:50 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on February 26, 2019, 04:51:39 PM
We won't be getting Brendan Rodgers in the summer then ;)

Obviously not as there will be no vacancy.

You can't possibly know that?

What if a major Premier League/European club comes and makes Smith an offer he can't refuse?



Well, If he's doing as poor a job as you say he is, then that probably won't happen.

Aha! We have a winner!

😂

Its hard to tell sarcasm through the misery sometimes.

Oh, come now.

Someone suggesting a big club might be interested in Smith, the way we're performing, and being taken seriously?

Fuck me. There's claret and blue tinted glasses, and there's total, undiluted, delusion. 😂
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 27, 2019, 09:49:22 AM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on February 27, 2019, 09:37:13 AM
If the next two games go badly he will be under all kinds of pressure. Let's hope Grealish can propel us back up the table and we can forget we ever had any doubts in the manager.

Hear hear.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on February 27, 2019, 01:44:26 PM
Quote from: Newby on February 26, 2019, 11:01:20 PM
Gone to Leicester. Wow. Brendan must have been truly desperate to get out of Scotland.  I reckon he'd have walked to VP had we offered him the job.
I suspect pretty much all all managers and players would pick Leicester over us right now.  I get that this hasn't quite sunk in for lots of us though.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on February 27, 2019, 09:26:31 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on February 27, 2019, 01:44:26 PM
Quote from: Newby on February 26, 2019, 11:01:20 PM
Gone to Leicester. Wow. Brendan must have been truly desperate to get out of Scotland.  I reckon he'd have walked to VP had we offered him the job.
I suspect pretty much all all managers and players would pick Leicester over us right now.  I get that this hasn't quite sunk in for lots of us though.

No, my point is two fold.  Celtic to Leicester City? Really?  Secondly, I suspect, had we offered, he would have come to us earlier on on in the season.  I am not making a Villa vs Leicester debate.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on February 27, 2019, 11:15:11 PM
Quote from: Newby on February 27, 2019, 09:26:31 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on February 27, 2019, 01:44:26 PM
Quote from: Newby on February 26, 2019, 11:01:20 PM
Gone to Leicester. Wow. Brendan must have been truly desperate to get out of Scotland.  I reckon he'd have walked to VP had we offered him the job.
I suspect pretty much all all managers and players would pick Leicester over us right now.  I get that this hasn't quite sunk in for lots of us though.

No, my point is two fold.  Celtic to Leicester City? Really?  Secondly, I suspect, had we offered, he would have come to us earlier on on in the season.  I am not making a Villa vs Leicester debate.

There's two ways of looking at that.  Either he's bored of winning everything in sight without any sort of challenge, such is the lack of competition in Scotland.  Or, now that Rangers are back in the top flight he sees the days of having no competition are numbered and he's ran for the hills.

Or, and more likely the driver, Leicester offered him an enormous pay rise and he's greedy!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on February 28, 2019, 12:05:19 AM
Mad Tom (Elphick) thinks a run of ten wins will see us right for the play offs.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Des Little on February 28, 2019, 12:14:12 AM
Quote from: eamonn on February 28, 2019, 12:05:19 AM
Mad Tom (Elphick) thinks a run of ten wins will see us right for the play offs.

I’d settle for a run of two
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: adrenachrome on February 28, 2019, 02:10:25 AM
Quote from: eamonn on February 28, 2019, 12:05:19 AM
Mad Tom (Elphick) thinks a run of ten wins will see us right for the play offs.

That is the right attitude and I would not be surprised if he really believes it. That's the way he rolls.

Most of us are just hoping we can beat Small Heath.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 28, 2019, 06:41:43 AM
One foot in front of the other, let's beat Derby.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on February 28, 2019, 11:22:30 AM
The problem with Brendan is i can't shake off the fact that I saw Tim Sherwood tactically outclass him at Wembley, and even Paul Lambert managed it twice against his Liverpool team at Anfield.

I'm massively unconvinced.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on February 28, 2019, 11:38:22 AM
Lambert also got the better of Mourinho. Sherwood beat Pochettino. Whoever is Wigan manager, I can't be arsed to check, defeated Guardiola last season. One-off results don't prove or disprove a manager's credentials.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: XXVilla on February 28, 2019, 12:07:45 PM
Quote from: eamonn on February 28, 2019, 12:05:19 AM
Mad Tom (Elphick) thinks a run of ten wins will see us right for the play offs.

We don’t call him Mad Tommy for nothing
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villa75 on February 28, 2019, 12:40:18 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on February 28, 2019, 11:22:30 AM
The problem with Brendan is i can't shake off the fact that I saw Tim Sherwood tactically outclass him at Wembley, and even Paul Lambert managed it twice against his Liverpool team at Anfield.

I'm massively unconvinced.

Relating to the thread we're on, and the team I support, I'm massively unconvinced with Dean Smith.

At the moment, I'd swap him with Brendan Rogers in a heartbeat.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on February 28, 2019, 01:13:40 PM
I've never been overly convinced by Brendan Rogers either. I can't quite put my finger on why because he's done ok wherever he's been.

As for Smith, I'm really looking forward to seeing what he does in the summer.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 28, 2019, 01:35:49 PM
I am allways suspicious of Managers that have a huge portrait painted of themselves.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nunkin1965 on February 28, 2019, 01:49:22 PM
I was a bit shocked at Rodgers timing although we don’t know behind the scenes what’s gone on.
Regardless of opinion about Scottish footy, why turn your back on a treble treble?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clark W Griswold on February 28, 2019, 01:59:17 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 28, 2019, 01:35:49 PM
I am allways suspicious of Managers that have a huge portrait painted of themselves.

I'm always more than suspicious of anyone that has a huge portrait painted of themselves. I'm not sure anything says 'I'm a ******' more than that, except maybe someone who has a really stupid personal number plate that is desperately trying to spell their nickname or shortened name but no matter how many times you look at it you can't make it out. In italics. On the back of a Q4 or similar.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on February 28, 2019, 02:01:51 PM
Quote from: Clark W Griswold on February 28, 2019, 01:59:17 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 28, 2019, 01:35:49 PM
I am allways suspicious of Managers that have a huge portrait painted of themselves.

I'm always more than suspicious of anyone that has a huge portrait painted of themselves. I'm not sure anything says 'I'm a c***' more than that, except maybe someone who has a really stupid personal number plate that is desperately trying to spell their nickname or shortened name but no matter how many times you look at it you can't make it out. In italics. On the back of a Q4 or similar.

There was a bloke by us a few years ago whose registration included 8AVE

Clearly, couldnt get Dave, thought "Fuck it, Bave is close enough".

The tool.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clark W Griswold on February 28, 2019, 03:10:14 PM
What you and everyone else should have done is to refer to him Bave exclusively and never actually use his real name of Dave. I think that would be fair. 'Alright Bave' when he arrives, 'What did you think of the performance the other night Bave?' and so on.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 28, 2019, 03:13:31 PM
A friend of ours called Ruth has got one that is something like W1 UTH.  Why would you do that?!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Left Side on February 28, 2019, 04:03:25 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 28, 2019, 03:13:31 PM
A friend of ours called Ruth has got one that is something like W1 UTH.  Why would you do that?!

Does she have a lisp?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 28, 2019, 05:13:33 PM
Nope!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on February 28, 2019, 05:43:10 PM
There was a dentist on the Stratford Rd just before Sparkhill Library (really) whose surname was Fogg-Hough.  I have often wondered if he ever got a personalized number plate.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 28, 2019, 05:51:47 PM
Quote from: Clark W Griswold on February 28, 2019, 01:59:17 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 28, 2019, 01:35:49 PM
I am allways suspicious of Managers that have a huge portrait painted of themselves.

I'm always more than suspicious of anyone that has a huge portrait painted of themselves. I'm not sure anything says 'I'm a c***' more than that, except maybe someone who has a really stupid personal number plate that is desperately trying to spell their nickname or shortened name but no matter how many times you look at it you can't make it out. In italics. On the back of a Q4 or similar.
What about the bloke in Tucson walking around with his wife with a huge picture of his wife on his T shirt, it wasn’t even a one off next day same bloke and wife and T-shirt.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TB on February 28, 2019, 09:03:34 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 28, 2019, 05:51:47 PM

What about the bloke in Tucson walking around with his wife with a huge picture of his wife on his T shirt, it wasn’t even a one off next day same bloke and wife and T-shirt.

For the briefest of moments, I wondered why you'd expect a different bloke walking around with the same wife and T-shirt the next day.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on February 28, 2019, 09:15:15 PM
Quote from: The Left Side on February 28, 2019, 04:03:25 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 28, 2019, 03:13:31 PM
A friend of ours called Ruth has got one that is something like W1 UTH.  Why would you do that?!

Does she have a lisp?

Welease Wuth!

PS Pedant alert!  I believe it's called rhotacism.  A lisp is an inability to pronounce the letter S.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on February 28, 2019, 09:33:35 PM
I used to have a girlfriend with rhotacism.  No Rs.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 28, 2019, 10:42:19 PM
Quote from: Ad@m on February 28, 2019, 09:15:15 PM
Quote from: The Left Side on February 28, 2019, 04:03:25 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 28, 2019, 03:13:31 PM
A friend of ours called Ruth has got one that is something like W1 UTH.  Why would you do that?!

Does she have a lisp?

Welease Wuth!

PS Pedant alert!  I believe it's called rhotacism.  A lisp is an inability to pronounce the letter S.

Someone has a sick sense of humour. Putting the letter 's' in lisp and starting rhotacism with an 'r'!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: DeeBoy1 on February 28, 2019, 11:05:50 PM
Same guys who made dyslexic so hard to spell...
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on February 28, 2019, 11:26:55 PM
On a similar note I always think it's a wasted opportunity that the word for palindrome isn't a palindrome.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on March 01, 2019, 08:30:24 AM
I’ve got a private reg plate

it’s got numbers followed by AV
all those nasty things you have said about people like me with private plates are ...



All True
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on March 01, 2019, 08:32:47 AM
And the twat who invented the garden cultivation machine and could not see the palindromic marketing potential of a Rotavator.  Thus we got Rotovator bedded into our mother tongue.  Imagine having a product you could read in your rear view mirror.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: UK Redsox on March 01, 2019, 09:53:16 AM
Quote from: john e on March 01, 2019, 08:30:24 AM
I’ve got a private reg plate

it’s got numbers followed by AV
all those nasty things you have said about people like me with private plates are ...



All True

If I had the money, I'd try to buy 'R30 SOX'

Would have looked even better on the R reg (first time round) Renault 30 that my date had in the 70s
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on March 01, 2019, 09:58:47 AM
Mine's got 1874 on it and two letters.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on March 01, 2019, 10:46:46 AM
Quote from: brian green on February 28, 2019, 09:33:35 PM
I used to have a girlfriend with rhotacism.  No Rs.

I prefer women with big R's.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 01, 2019, 10:50:45 AM
Quote from: UK Redsox on March 01, 2019, 09:53:16 AM
Quote from: john e on March 01, 2019, 08:30:24 AM
I’ve got a private reg plate

it’s got numbers followed by AV
all those nasty things you have said about people like me with private plates are ...



All True

If I had the money, I'd try to buy 'R30 SOX'

Would have looked even better on the R reg (first time round) Renault 30 that my date had in the 70s

Surely "RED 50X" would be better? I mean, if you like that kind of thing.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Archbishop Herbert Cockthrottle on March 01, 2019, 10:54:29 AM
Just go for P3N 15 and cut out the middle man.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on March 01, 2019, 11:12:21 AM
Quote from: Archbishop Herbert Cockthrottle on March 01, 2019, 10:54:29 AM
Just go for P3N 15 and cut out the middle man.

Ha!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on March 01, 2019, 11:32:53 AM
I had a private plate. Then I got divorced so I sold the car.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clark W Griswold on March 01, 2019, 12:51:24 PM
They're not all bad, I have considered having one with my initials in the past, but you've got to admit that Bave and Wuth sound like a right pair of fuckwits.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Allan C on March 01, 2019, 02:23:18 PM
Quote from: Villa75 on February 28, 2019, 12:40:18 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on February 28, 2019, 11:22:30 AM
The problem with Brendan is i can't shake off the fact that I saw Tim Sherwood tactically outclass him at Wembley, and even Paul Lambert managed it twice against his Liverpool team at Anfield.

I'm massively unconvinced.

Relating to the thread we're on, and the team I support, I'm massively unconvinced with Dean Smith.

At the moment, I'd swap him with Brendan Rogers in a heartbeat.
I am massively convinced with Brendan Rodgers but it matters nothing cos I’m also massively convinced with Dean Smith. Rodgers would have exactly the same problems that Smith is having if he was here and I’m sure he would do exactly what Smith will do in the summer and rid us of the dross that are frankly the real problem at our club right now
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on March 01, 2019, 03:07:49 PM
I'm in agreement that personalised number plates are all a bit W4 NKY
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on March 01, 2019, 03:35:39 PM
I have AV4 on my Lada Riva
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: passport1 on March 01, 2019, 04:47:20 PM
I always liken it to the fashion in the 80's to have the likes of 'Dean & Shaz' plastered across the top of windscreens.


*Come to think of it maybe it was our Deano.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: curlytailavfc on March 01, 2019, 05:05:11 PM
a women passed me with B1tch and shes got it right she cut me up
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on March 01, 2019, 06:27:35 PM
In my defence, on the IOM back in the day you could just have the next numbered MN plate, or pay £30 and choose four numbers of your own, so I chose 1874. It didn't look out of place with any other IOM car, but those who knew, knew.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on March 01, 2019, 06:51:11 PM
By total chance a long time ago I got BON 10 for a new Austin 1100 I bought on Broad St.  Sold it to the dog food manufacturers and got the car for nothing.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brazilian Villain on March 01, 2019, 07:18:24 PM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on February 28, 2019, 11:26:55 PM
On a similar note I always think it's a wasted opportunity that the word for palindrome isn't a palindrome.

if it's any consolation the word oxymoron is itself an oxymoron.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brazilian Villain on March 01, 2019, 07:24:36 PM
Quote from: Risso on March 01, 2019, 06:27:35 PM
In my defence, on the IOM back in the day you could just have the next numbered MN plate, or pay £30 and choose four numbers of your own, so I chose 1874. It didn't look out of place with any other IOM car, but those who knew, knew.

Similar here, I'd likely get AV 1874 as you can pick any combo up to 8 characters.

Two of the worst I've seen is a EY audit manager who has "ACA" as his plate and a couple with matching white Range Rovers that have "His" and "Hers".
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Border villan on March 01, 2019, 08:35:27 PM
Quote from: Brazilian Villain on March 01, 2019, 07:24:36 PM
Quote from: Risso on March 01, 2019, 06:27:35 PM
In my defence, on the IOM back in the day you could just have the next numbered MN plate, or pay £30 and choose four numbers of your own, so I chose 1874. It didn't look out of place with any other IOM car, but those who knew, knew.

Similar here, I'd likely get AV 1874 as you can pick any combo up to 8 characters.

Two of the worst I've seen is a EY audit manager who has "ACA" as his plate and a couple with matching white Range Rovers that have "His" and "Hers".
AV1874 is on a white Range Rover that parks behind the North Stand.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: XXVilla on March 01, 2019, 10:29:12 PM
John Peel on this for me. “Personalised number plate? Sure sign of a dickhead”
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on March 01, 2019, 11:36:28 PM
I have AVFC01
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 01, 2019, 11:44:24 PM
So you have us losing 0-1 at home, shame on you TV, shame on you.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on March 02, 2019, 12:19:50 AM
Quote from: XXVilla on March 01, 2019, 10:29:12 PM
John Peel on this for me. “Personalised number plate? Sure sign of a dickhead”

Having sex with underage girls? Sure sign of a paedophile.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: geolex on March 02, 2019, 08:17:57 AM
Quote from: chrisw1 on February 27, 2019, 01:44:26 PM
Quote from: Newby on February 26, 2019, 11:01:20 PM
Gone to Leicester. Wow. Brendan must have been truly desperate to get out of Scotland.  I reckon he'd have walked to VP had we offered him the job.
I suspect pretty much all all managers and players would pick Leicester over us right now.  I get that this hasn't quite sunk in for lots of us though.
[/Stark reality is taking current league positions  only walsall are below us in our local area ,,that is the sad fact of our current plight and although the support , stadium etc are all  top flight the important criteria ie the team is light years away thats why rogers etc will opt for other clubs
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: XXVilla on March 02, 2019, 11:41:31 AM
Quote from: Risso on March 02, 2019, 12:19:50 AM
Quote from: XXVilla on March 01, 2019, 10:29:12 PM
John Peel on this for me. “Personalised number plate? Sure sign of a dickhead”

Having sex with underage girls? Sure sign of a paedophile.

But still right about personalised number plates
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on March 02, 2019, 11:52:12 AM
Quote from: XXVilla on March 01, 2019, 10:29:12 PM
John Peel on this for me. “Personalised number plate? Sure sign of a dickhead”

I had a personalised number plate on my old Porsche 924. 'KDX 924'. Everone asked me what the KDX stood for and I had to tell them nothing, I bought it purely for the 924 bit. I did briefly consider changing my name by deed poll to fit the reg. I could have become Kevin David X.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on March 02, 2019, 05:31:20 PM
All of a sudden we have a much stronger squad available.  Jack, SJM and Carroll are back in the reckoning.  Mings and Hause are both showing us what they can do and we look more solid at the back.  Elmo and Taylor wouldn't be my first choice full backs but are more than capable until next season.
Losing Hutton and Elphick is a blow but Chester will be back soon.  I have often said that it is the hope that kills you but dare we believe?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: GarTomas on March 02, 2019, 05:34:40 PM
Quote from: Newby on March 02, 2019, 05:31:20 PM
All of a sudden we have a much stronger squad available.  Jack, SJM and Carroll are back in the reckoning.  Mings and Hause are both showing us what they can do and we look more solid at the back.  Elmo and Taylor wouldn't be my first choice full backs but are more than capable until next season.
Losing Hutton and Elphick is a blow but Chester will be back soon.  I have often said that it is the hope that kills you but dare we believe?

It’s a big ask but 9 wins will do it I think.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ASHTONVILLA on March 02, 2019, 05:58:03 PM
Incredible the difference one player makes to the team.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on March 02, 2019, 07:04:08 PM
That's the frustration isn't it. With Jack back in we look like a proper team again playing the sort of style we want to see this club playing every week.

Guess it's another summer coming up of holding onto Jack at all costs as him leaving permanently would leave a massive void.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on March 02, 2019, 08:56:26 PM
Quote from: ASHTONVILLA on March 02, 2019, 05:58:03 PM
Incredible the difference one player makes to the team.

He's not just 'one player' though. He must be at least as good as anyone who's ever played in this division. He's irreplaceable.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on March 02, 2019, 09:30:33 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on March 02, 2019, 08:56:26 PM
Quote from: ASHTONVILLA on March 02, 2019, 05:58:03 PM
Incredible the difference one player makes to the team.

He's not just 'one player' though. He must be at least as good as anyone who's ever played in this division. He's irreplaceable.

This.

He's so good at this level that teams plan almost entirely around containing him, which leaves an extra yard of space for the rest of the team, and without being rushed they all look far more capable, it's been the same story for about 18 months (since he came back from his kidney injury), when Jack plays we're just a lot better, if Bruce had known how to use the space it creates he'd still be here and we'd by 7-8 places higher in the league.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on March 02, 2019, 09:51:52 PM
I can't  remember us having a more talismanic player.  McParland, Gidman, Platty, Gray, close but not so singularly able to make the team play better.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on March 02, 2019, 09:59:08 PM
Quote from: brian green on March 02, 2019, 09:51:52 PM
If we had had a decent referee at Wembley who stopped the opposition chopping Jack down systematically we might be a whole division higher.

We were shite at Wembley, but I agree with you Brian.

That said, going up last year would've papered over some vast cracks.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on March 02, 2019, 10:06:00 PM
Quote from: brian green on March 02, 2019, 09:51:52 PM
I can't  remember us having a more talismanic player.  McParland, Gidman, Platty, Gray, close but not so singularly able to make the team play better.
Ahem. I think Brian Little was pretty transformational.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KRS on March 02, 2019, 10:07:42 PM
Yep we’re in a significantly much better position now with the new owners and Smith to take the club forward than we would have been if we’d have been promoted under Xia and Bruce.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on March 02, 2019, 10:08:36 PM
Yes, I forgot Sir Brian.  I also omitted Danny Blanchflower but that was because he never bonded with the club.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on March 02, 2019, 10:33:09 PM
Quote from: Mister E on March 02, 2019, 10:06:00 PM
Quote from: brian green on March 02, 2019, 09:51:52 PM
I can't  remember us having a more talismanic player.  McParland, Gidman, Platty, Gray, close but not so singularly able to make the team play better.
Ahem. I think Brian Little was pretty transformational.

Point of order - does Sir Brian even need to be mentioned. Doesn’t he transcend these kinds of mere mortal conversations?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on March 02, 2019, 10:40:13 PM
I know he hardly mentions us nowadays but Platty was such a good footballer.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 02, 2019, 10:47:13 PM
Platt is one of the few players we had that consistently made us a far better side on his own. He was the reason we nearly won the league, he was the reason we didn't get relegated. Despite having the likes of McGrath and Cowans in the side, take Platt out that side and I reckon we'd have been mid-table at best in 1990 and relegated in 1991.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on March 02, 2019, 10:52:41 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on March 02, 2019, 10:47:13 PM
Platt is one of the few players we had that consistently made us a far better side on his own. He was the reason we nearly won the league, he was the reason we didn't get relegated. Despite having the likes of McGrath and Cowans in the side, take Platt out that side and I reckon we'd have been mid-table at best in 1990 and relegated in 1991.

Agreed. The balloon-faced gastropest.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on March 02, 2019, 11:03:00 PM
Platt was superb. He was Lampard before Lampard in my opinion better than Gerrard
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on March 02, 2019, 11:06:40 PM
Platt had everything.  Presence, good tackling, good in the air, could defend, was very good up front, could pass etc.  Superb player.  Him and Sid were absolutely fantastic to watch.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: adrenachrome on March 02, 2019, 11:07:09 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on March 02, 2019, 10:52:41 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on March 02, 2019, 10:47:13 PM
Platt is one of the few players we had that consistently made us a far better side on his own. He was the reason we nearly won the league, he was the reason we didn't get relegated. Despite having the likes of McGrath and Cowans in the side, take Platt out that side and I reckon we'd have been mid-table at best in 1990 and relegated in 1991.

Agreed. The balloon-faced gastropest.

The Man Whose Head Expanded was a wonderfully technical player and could control a difficult ball on the move like no other English player at the time.
He did not control games games like Mortimer and Blanchflower, though.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 02, 2019, 11:18:24 PM
None of them starred in Button Moon though.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on March 02, 2019, 11:19:23 PM
Quote from: adrenachrome on March 02, 2019, 11:07:09 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on March 02, 2019, 10:52:41 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on March 02, 2019, 10:47:13 PM
Platt is one of the few players we had that consistently made us a far better side on his own. He was the reason we nearly won the league, he was the reason we didn't get relegated. Despite having the likes of McGrath and Cowans in the side, take Platt out that side and I reckon we'd have been mid-table at best in 1990 and relegated in 1991.

Agreed. The balloon-faced gastropest.

The Man Whose Head Expanded was a wonderfully technical player and could control a difficult ball on the move like no other English player at the time.
He did not control games games like Mortimer and Blanchflower, though.

He was a great player. Better, in his way, than Gascoigne. The helium-bonced mammoth carcass.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy65 on March 03, 2019, 08:51:13 AM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on March 02, 2019, 11:19:23 PM
Quote from: adrenachrome on March 02, 2019, 11:07:09 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on March 02, 2019, 10:52:41 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on March 02, 2019, 10:47:13 PM
Platt is one of the few players we had that consistently made us a far better side on his own. He was the reason we nearly won the league, he was the reason we didn't get relegated. Despite having the likes of McGrath and Cowans in the side, take Platt out that side and I reckon we'd have been mid-table at best in 1990 and relegated in 1991.

Agreed. The balloon-faced gastropest.

The Man Whose Head Expanded was a wonderfully technical player and could control a difficult ball on the move like no other English player at the time.
He did not control games games like Mortimer and Blanchflower, though.

He was a great player. Better, in his way, than Gascoigne. The helium-bonced mammoth carcass.

Platt better than Gazza?😂
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy65 on March 03, 2019, 08:55:31 AM
Quote from: Risso on March 02, 2019, 12:19:50 AM
Quote from: XXVilla on March 01, 2019, 10:29:12 PM
John Peel on this for me. “Personalised number plate? Sure sign of a dickhead”

Having sex with underage girls? Sure sign of a paedophile.

Touché
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on March 03, 2019, 08:56:50 AM
Gazza 57 caps, 10 goals
Platt   62 caps, 27 goals
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on March 03, 2019, 09:00:48 AM
Quote from: Damo70 on March 03, 2019, 08:56:50 AM
Gazza 57 caps, 10 goals
Platt   62 caps, 27 goals


Ray Wilkins       - 84 caps

Dennis Mortimer  - 0 caps



your stat means nothing
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on March 03, 2019, 09:03:56 AM
Platty was one of those players you knew instantly you saw him play that he was very special.  First time I saw him was one Christmas game that was frozen off at VP and having driven up from that London carried on to take in the Crewe game at the Dogheads.  Platty was outstandingly good.  He danced through the lungeing and hacking - to steal the Guardian comment about Tony Daley going through the Gooners defence "like a harvest mouse in a threshing machine".
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on March 03, 2019, 09:06:09 AM
I'm hoping Stuart isn't too upset. He's not been on following the devastating blow of us winning and I'm just worried something terrible has happened. I've not read of any bridges collapsing.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on March 03, 2019, 09:17:39 AM
Quote from: Ads on March 03, 2019, 09:06:09 AM
I'm hoping Stuart isn't too upset. He's not been on following the devastating blow of us winning and I'm just worried something terrible has happened. I've not read of any bridges collapsing.



He probably left at half time.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on March 03, 2019, 09:20:25 AM
Quote from: Ads on March 03, 2019, 09:06:09 AM
I'm hoping Stuart isn't too upset. He's not been on following the devastating blow of us winning and I'm just worried something terrible has happened. I've not read of any bridges collapsing.



Somebody nip round to see if there's a backlog of milk bottles on the doorstep, and a pile of unopened post on the door mat.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on March 03, 2019, 09:21:38 AM
There has been a swarm of earthquakes across England with large ground fissures.  Something is not right.  I hope Stuart is not somewhere too horrible to contemplate.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on March 03, 2019, 09:23:04 AM
Quote from: Damo70 on March 03, 2019, 08:56:50 AM
Gazza 57 caps, 10 goals
Platt   62 caps, 27 goals


Completely different players so a bit unfair to judge them on that.  Gascoigne was an absolute genius though, the best England player I've ever seen.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on March 03, 2019, 09:26:12 AM
No way SJM should benched for Sunday, we need his energy and combativeness. Stories today of him being Rodger's Number 1 target for the summer!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on March 03, 2019, 09:26:23 AM
Agree Martin.  Gazza was a gifted player.  Platty was an outstandingly good one.  Bit like the difference between Lennon and McCartney.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Fred Crump on March 03, 2019, 09:27:50 AM
Quote from: Ads on March 03, 2019, 09:06:09 AM
I'm hoping Stuart isn't too upset. He's not been on following the devastating blow of us winning and I'm just worried something terrible has happened. I've not read of any bridges collapsing.

Don’t worry Ads, when he gets over his disappointment he’ll conclude that the win was just a blip, nothing to do with Smith, Hourihane was a Bruce signing and we were back to normal when we failed to score in the second half. Smith is just a fan out of his depth, he’ll be sacked when Brucie’s Wednesday tonk us in a few weeks time, heralding the second coming of the Holy Potato. Or something like that ....
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave shelley on March 03, 2019, 09:43:12 AM
I always thought that Bruce Rioch was quite influential for us in the short time he was with us.  He had a great passing range, high energy and work rate, could put a tackle in and what a shot!  I recall he got a lengthy ban, about six weeks, for what I can't remember, but we struggled for the time he was out.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on March 03, 2019, 10:09:55 AM
Quote from: mr underhill on March 03, 2019, 09:26:12 AM
No way SJM should benched for Sunday, we need his energy and combativeness. Stories today of him being Rodger's Number 1 target for the summer!

Smiffy's a massive fan of him so I reckon he'll put him back in.

As for the stories about him, that was bound to happen at some point now Rodgers has gone to Leicester. A mixture of possibly being true and lazy journalism.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chris Smith on March 03, 2019, 10:27:30 AM
Quote from: Clampy on March 03, 2019, 10:09:55 AM
Quote from: mr underhill on March 03, 2019, 09:26:12 AM
No way SJM should benched for Sunday, we need his energy and combativeness. Stories today of him being Rodger's Number 1 target for the summer!

Smiffy's a massive fan of him so I reckon he'll put him back in.

As for the stories about him, that was bound to happen at some point now Rodgers has gone to Leicester. A mixture of possibly being true and lazy journalism.

Who do you leave out though? Hourihane scored two, Whelan was man of the match for me and Grealish is the best player in the division. I’d put him on the bench as a warning to the others that they need to maintain that level of performance in order to keep their places.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: andyh on March 03, 2019, 10:36:47 AM
Quote from: Chris Smith on March 03, 2019, 10:27:30 AM
Quote from: Clampy on March 03, 2019, 10:09:55 AM
Quote from: mr underhill on March 03, 2019, 09:26:12 AM
No way SJM should benched for Sunday, we need his energy and combativeness. Stories today of him being Rodger's Number 1 target for the summer!

Smiffy's a massive fan of him so I reckon he'll put him back in.

As for the stories about him, that was bound to happen at some point now Rodgers has gone to Leicester. A mixture of possibly being true and lazy journalism.

Who do you leave out though? Hourihane scored two, Whelan was man of the match for me and Grealish is the best player in the division. I’d put him on the bench as a warning to the others that they need to maintain that level of performance in order to keep their places.
Completely agree.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: curiousorange on March 03, 2019, 10:47:29 AM
The obvious thing to do is to assume the Nose game will be hackery, low on quality and high on energy. McGinn's workrate and his understandable intention to come straight back would probably see him better suited to a game like that. But I'd like to see that classy midfield performance at the Sty - they couldn't live with it, so I wouldn't break it up.

I realise that makes McGinn sound like a clogger, which he isn't at all. I'd still expect him in the side at St Andrews because Smith isn't naive.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on March 03, 2019, 11:04:25 AM
Quote from: andyh on March 03, 2019, 10:36:47 AM
Quote from: Chris Smith on March 03, 2019, 10:27:30 AM
Quote from: Clampy on March 03, 2019, 10:09:55 AM
Quote from: mr underhill on March 03, 2019, 09:26:12 AM
No way SJM should benched for Sunday, we need his energy and combativeness. Stories today of him being Rodger's Number 1 target for the summer!

Smiffy's a massive fan of him so I reckon he'll put him back in.

As for the stories about him, that was bound to happen at some point now Rodgers has gone to Leicester. A mixture of possibly being true and lazy journalism.

Who do you leave out though? Hourihane scored two, Whelan was man of the match for me and Grealish is the best player in the division. I’d put him on the bench as a warning to the others that they need to maintain that level of performance in order to keep their places.
Completely agree.

I’d play my best team

so that means McGinn is in with Grealish at the expense of any other midfield player you care to mention
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Richard on March 03, 2019, 11:08:46 AM
They're poor in midfield so play Whelan just behind Jack Conor and SJM with Tammy and El Ghazi floating around up front.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on March 06, 2019, 09:05:43 PM
BREAKING NEWS

Stuart has been found alive, well and defending Steve Bruce. Call off the search.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 06, 2019, 09:39:57 PM
Quote from: Ads on March 06, 2019, 09:05:43 PM
BREAKING NEWS

Stuart has been found alive in Sheffield , well and defending Steve Bruce. Call off the search.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: colin69 on March 06, 2019, 09:56:01 PM
Quote from: andyh on March 03, 2019, 10:36:47 AM
Quote from: Chris Smith on March 03, 2019, 10:27:30 AM
Quote from: Clampy on March 03, 2019, 10:09:55 AM
Quote from: mr underhill on March 03, 2019, 09:26:12 AM
No way SJM should benched for Sunday, we need his energy and combativeness. Stories today of him being Rodger's Number 1 target for the summer!

Smiffy's a massive fan of him so I reckon he'll put him back in.

As for the stories about him, that was bound to happen at some point now Rodgers has gone to Leicester. A mixture of possibly being true and lazy journalism.

Who do you leave out though? Hourihane scored two, Whelan was man of the match for me and Grealish is the best player in the division. I’d put him on the bench as a warning to the others that they need to maintain that level of performance in order to keep their places.
Completely agree.

So do I
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on March 06, 2019, 10:16:36 PM
I just hope that Smith doesn’t try and accommodate both Whelan and McGinn. We need the attacking threat so stick with what works. If anything I would bring in Green or Kodjia for Adomah to go with McGinn for Whelan and Taylor for Elphick, Hause moving to CB.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on March 06, 2019, 10:20:25 PM
Quote from: Chris Smith on March 03, 2019, 10:27:30 AM
Quote from: Clampy on March 03, 2019, 10:09:55 AM
Quote from: mr underhill on March 03, 2019, 09:26:12 AM
No way SJM should benched for Sunday, we need his energy and combativeness. Stories today of him being Rodger's Number 1 target for the summer!

Smiffy's a massive fan of him so I reckon he'll put him back in.

As for the stories about him, that was bound to happen at some point now Rodgers has gone to Leicester. A mixture of possibly being true and lazy journalism.

Who do you leave out though? Hourihane scored two, Whelan was man of the match for me and Grealish is the best player in the division. I’d put him on the bench as a warning to the others that they need to maintain that level of performance in order to keep their places.

Adomah.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Allan C on March 07, 2019, 06:33:22 PM
Quote from: colin69 on March 06, 2019, 09:56:01 PM
Quote from: andyh on March 03, 2019, 10:36:47 AM
Quote from: Chris Smith on March 03, 2019, 10:27:30 AM
Quote from: Clampy on March 03, 2019, 10:09:55 AM
Quote from: mr underhill on March 03, 2019, 09:26:12 AM
No way SJM should benched for Sunday, we need his energy and combativeness. Stories today of him being Rodger's Number 1 target for the summer!

Smiffy's a massive fan of him so I reckon he'll put him back in.

As for the stories about him, that was bound to happen at some point now Rodgers has gone to Leicester. A mixture of possibly being true and lazy journalism.

Who do you leave out though? Hourihane scored two, Whelan was man of the match for me and Grealish is the best player in the division. I’d put him on the bench as a warning to the others that they need to maintain that level of performance in order to keep their places.
Completely agree.

So do I
Absolutely 100% agree with this. I’d drop Whelan given the choice
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TB on March 07, 2019, 06:38:46 PM
Quote from: Allan C on March 07, 2019, 06:33:22 PM
Quote from: colin69 on March 06, 2019, 09:56:01 PM
Quote from: andyh on March 03, 2019, 10:36:47 AM
Quote from: Chris Smith on March 03, 2019, 10:27:30 AM
Quote from: Clampy on March 03, 2019, 10:09:55 AM
Quote from: mr underhill on March 03, 2019, 09:26:12 AM
No way SJM should benched for Sunday, we need his energy and combativeness. Stories today of him being Rodger's Number 1 target for the summer!

Smiffy's a massive fan of him so I reckon he'll put him back in.

As for the stories about him, that was bound to happen at some point now Rodgers has gone to Leicester. A mixture of possibly being true and lazy journalism.

Who do you leave out though? Hourihane scored two, Whelan was man of the match for me and Grealish is the best player in the division. I’d put him on the bench as a warning to the others that they need to maintain that level of performance in order to keep their places.
Completely agree.

So do I
Absolutely 100% agree with this. I’d drop Whelan given the choice

Huh?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 07, 2019, 09:03:55 PM
Quote from: TB on March 07, 2019, 06:38:46 PM
Quote from: Allan C on March 07, 2019, 06:33:22 PM
Quote from: colin69 on March 06, 2019, 09:56:01 PM
Quote from: andyh on March 03, 2019, 10:36:47 AM
Quote from: Chris Smith on March 03, 2019, 10:27:30 AM
Quote from: Clampy on March 03, 2019, 10:09:55 AM
Quote from: mr underhill on March 03, 2019, 09:26:12 AM
No way SJM should benched for Sunday, we need his energy and combativeness. Stories today of him being Rodger's Number 1 target for the summer!

Smiffy's a massive fan of him so I reckon he'll put him back in.

As for the stories about him, that was bound to happen at some point now Rodgers has gone to Leicester. A mixture of possibly being true and lazy journalism.

Who do you leave out though? Hourihane scored two, Whelan was man of the match for me and Grealish is the best player in the division. I’d put him on the bench as a warning to the others that they need to maintain that level of performance in order to keep their places.
Completely agree.

So do I
Absolutely 100% agree with this. I’d drop Whelan given the choice

Huh?
Madness, 1 game in 20 out SJM in.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on March 07, 2019, 10:16:55 PM
Pick the best side available to you.  That means that SJM plays and either Hourihane, two goals last game but that absolute shite for months prior to that, or Whelan, generally pants but played really well last week (contract coming to an end is is Glen?), sit it out, particularly as Whelan won't be here next season and that there is no room for sentiment.  Or, play Mr consistent, John McGinn?  Absolute no brainer.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: in exile on March 08, 2019, 04:02:27 PM
I thought they had been trying SJM at left back in training enabling Hause to play in Elphick's place with SJM looking like a better option than Taylor
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on March 08, 2019, 04:03:51 PM
Quote from: Newby on March 07, 2019, 10:16:55 PM
Pick the best side available to you.  That means that SJM plays and either Hourihane, two goals last game but that absolute shite for months prior to that, or Whelan, generally pants but played really well last week (contract coming to an end is is Glen?), sit it out, particularly as Whelan won't be here next season and that there is no room for sentiment.  Or, play Mr consistent, John McGinn?  Absolute no brainer.

I can't think of too many games McGinn played well in during the bad run to be honest.  His passing was woeful.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on March 08, 2019, 04:16:26 PM
Quote from: Risso on March 08, 2019, 04:03:51 PM
Quote from: Newby on March 07, 2019, 10:16:55 PM
Pick the best side available to you.  That means that SJM plays and either Hourihane, two goals last game but that absolute shite for months prior to that, or Whelan, generally pants but played really well last week (contract coming to an end is is Glen?), sit it out, particularly as Whelan won't be here next season and that there is no room for sentiment.  Or, play Mr consistent, John McGinn?  Absolute no brainer.

I can't think of too many games McGinn played well in during the bad run to be honest.  His passing was woeful.

he was trying to do the work of 3 men for a start
we basically had a one man midfield

Anyone who thinks we should drop McGinn on Sunday has got rocks for brains
I sometimes wonder whether people have got the slightest idea about football sometimes
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on March 08, 2019, 04:37:47 PM
Quote from: john e on March 08, 2019, 04:16:26 PM
Quote from: Risso on March 08, 2019, 04:03:51 PM
Quote from: Newby on March 07, 2019, 10:16:55 PM
Pick the best side available to you.  That means that SJM plays and either Hourihane, two goals last game but that absolute shite for months prior to that, or Whelan, generally pants but played really well last week (contract coming to an end is is Glen?), sit it out, particularly as Whelan won't be here next season and that there is no room for sentiment.  Or, play Mr consistent, John McGinn?  Absolute no brainer.

I can't think of too many games McGinn played well in during the bad run to be honest.  His passing was woeful.

he was trying to do the work of 3 men for a start
we basically had a one man midfield

Anyone who thinks we should drop McGinn on Sunday has got rocks for brains
I sometimes wonder whether people have got the slightest idea about football sometimes


Sorry to disagree with you Pep, but as McGinn wasn't playing last week he can't be dropped.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on March 08, 2019, 04:47:03 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on March 08, 2019, 04:37:47 PM
Quote from: john e on March 08, 2019, 04:16:26 PM
Quote from: Risso on March 08, 2019, 04:03:51 PM
Quote from: Newby on March 07, 2019, 10:16:55 PM
Pick the best side available to you.  That means that SJM plays and either Hourihane, two goals last game but that absolute shite for months prior to that, or Whelan, generally pants but played really well last week (contract coming to an end is is Glen?), sit it out, particularly as Whelan won't be here next season and that there is no room for sentiment.  Or, play Mr consistent, John McGinn?  Absolute no brainer.

I can't think of too many games McGinn played well in during the bad run to be honest.  His passing was woeful.

he was trying to do the work of 3 men for a start
we basically had a one man midfield

Anyone who thinks we should drop McGinn on Sunday has got rocks for brains
I sometimes wonder whether people have got the slightest idea about football sometimes


Sorry to disagree with you Pep, but as McGinn wasn't playing last week he can't be dropped.

well done for spotting and pointing that out
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on March 08, 2019, 06:33:46 PM
Did you watch the last match John?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KRS on March 08, 2019, 07:14:33 PM
Quote from: in exile on March 08, 2019, 04:02:27 PM
I thought they had been trying SJM at left back in training enabling Hause to play in Elphick's place with SJM looking like a better option than Taylor
I believe he was playing LB in training due to his ban and wanting to drill the available midfield players without him rather than looking at him as an alternative LB. There could be an argument for him to play there given Taylor being the only option however we need his drive in midfield and it doesn't make sense to restrict ourselves by playing one of our strongest midfielders out of position until Axel, Chester or Elphick recover from injury. We'll just have to hope Taylor or one of the U23s can do a job at LB.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on March 08, 2019, 11:16:15 PM
Quote from: KRS on March 08, 2019, 07:14:33 PM
Quote from: in exile on March 08, 2019, 04:02:27 PM
I thought they had been trying SJM at left back in training enabling Hause to play in Elphick's place with SJM looking like a better option than Taylor
I believe he was playing LB in training due to his ban and wanting to drill the available midfield players without him rather than looking at him as an alternative LB. There could be an argument for him to play there given Taylor being the only option however we need his drive in midfield and it doesn't make sense to restrict ourselves by playing one of our strongest midfielders out of position until Axel, Chester or Elphick recover from injury. We'll just have to hope Taylor or one of the U23s can do a job at LB.

If we did play McGinn at LB, it'd probably finish Taylor as an option for us. He doesn't strike me as the most confident of people.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on March 08, 2019, 11:29:50 PM
I don't want to see SJM at left back but seeing the back of the worst left back I've ever seen in a Villa shirt would be one hell of a silver lining!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on March 09, 2019, 11:33:40 AM
Quote from: Risso on March 08, 2019, 06:33:46 PM
Did you watch the last match John?

I did and most of the previous 20 odd to that
and one man stands out head and shoulders above every other midfield player we have excluding Jack

and he’s the one we should be going with in an important Derby match
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clark W Griswold on March 09, 2019, 11:51:25 AM
He'd had a few iffy games in the bad run, looked like he needed a rest and he's coming back from injury. Whelan was excellent in the last match and pissflap scored twice so although it's probably a close call and your opinion is as valid as anyone else's, I think the 'rocks for brains' comment is a phenomenally arrogant statement.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on March 09, 2019, 01:57:10 PM
Noticed that Dean Smith was at an LMA meeting this week where Pep was guest speaker. He said he took a lot from the session with the biggest message being "be yourself". He mentioned others being in attendance but did go into details. I expect that TSM2 was in there scribbling away as he constructs his newest excellent backpass tactics and crossing corners back to the halfway line where he will keep possession for 80 passes before conceding on the break.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on March 09, 2019, 02:13:16 PM
A coach/manager must have ruthless belief and total self confidence. Once they compromise that they are toast as did Lambert.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KevinGage on March 09, 2019, 02:15:09 PM
Ability-wise, B-lose are muck (so credit for Monk for what he has done with that rabble, has to be a manager of the year contender).  So if we were facing another team of that level, I'd be intrigued to see McGinn at LB/LWB.

But not sure a derby is the place for that sort of experimentation.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kipeye on March 09, 2019, 02:17:08 PM
I would like to see him in for El-Ghazi and play four midfielders.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on March 09, 2019, 03:23:41 PM
Quote from: KevinGage on March 09, 2019, 02:15:09 PM
Ability-wise, B-lose are muck (so credit for Monk for what he has done with that rabble, has to be a manager of the year contender).  So if we were facing another team of that level, I'd be intrigued to see McGinn at LB/LWB.

But not sure a derby is the place for that sort of experimentation.

No chance Monk winning manager of the year. You have Sheff Utd in the top 3 and Norwich playing some great football and clear at the top. The rags are a little above mid table after paying their players such enormous sums of money they fail FFP rules. He's doing pretty good but don't believe their deluded hype.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on March 16, 2019, 08:48:56 PM
It really does show if Dean has players capable of playing the way he wants us to he will take us forward and we’ll enjoy the ride. Jack is some sort player I know but our way of playing really does suit him. Great stuff, loving it Mr Smith.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 16, 2019, 11:18:30 PM
Good stuff Dean, glad we’re looking much better.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on March 17, 2019, 12:05:25 AM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on March 16, 2019, 11:18:30 PM
Good stuff Dean, glad we’re looking much better.

Absolutely.  And unlike some unnamed recent managers we've had he hasn't felt the need to use our good form as a reason to have a pop at the fans!!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: jwarry on March 17, 2019, 12:51:57 PM
Quote from: Ad@m on March 17, 2019, 12:05:25 AM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on March 16, 2019, 11:18:30 PM
Good stuff Dean, glad we’re looking much better.



Absolutely.  And unlike some unnamed recent managers we've had he hasn't felt the need to use our good form as a reason to have a pop at the fans!!

And in fact he’s done the opposite by saying we haven’t achieved anything yet! Glad he’s come through that dodgy spell but as others have said it was largely down to the lop side squad he inherited.  There is no doubt in my mind if we had had him at the beginning of the season with a window we’d be top 2

That said the events of the last 12 months have probably left us in better shape than if we’d one the play off last season. I shudder to think where we’d be now, watching turgid football from expensive past it players just to hang on to PL status. Is much rather be where we are now
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on March 17, 2019, 12:54:09 PM
Pleased Dean has turned it around (for now).

Certainly the style of manager I want us to prosper under eventually.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on March 17, 2019, 01:05:31 PM
Hey Stuart?

Stuart?!

Hey has anybody seen my mate Stu, top guy. Stuart!

(One for the RDR2 cool kids)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Stu on March 17, 2019, 01:11:14 PM
Quote from: Ads on March 17, 2019, 01:05:31 PM
Hey Stuart?

Stuart?!

Hey has anybody seen my mate Stu, top guy. Stuart!

(One for the RDR2 cool kids)

What?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Stu on March 17, 2019, 01:12:08 PM
Oh, the naysayer Stuart.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on March 17, 2019, 01:18:54 PM
I'd forgotten about him. Probably on Owls & Buzzards by now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on March 17, 2019, 01:25:07 PM
Quote from: Ads on March 17, 2019, 01:05:31 PM
Hey Stuart?

Stuart?!

Hey has anybody seen my mate Stu, top guy. Stuart!

(One for the RDR2 cool kids)


(https://i.ibb.co/dMFgjPP/Screenshot-2019-03-17-at-13-21-19.png) (https://ibb.co/dMFgjPP)


"Stuart!? Has anyone seen a Villa fan called Stuart? Stu? Stu!?  Lovely fella, but he went missing, and now Ads is all alone.  Stu?  STUART?!  Well the hell are you, Ads is so worried!"
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Axl Rose on March 17, 2019, 01:28:33 PM
Quote from: Risso on March 17, 2019, 01:25:07 PM
Quote from: Ads on March 17, 2019, 01:05:31 PM
Hey Stuart?

Stuart?!

Hey has anybody seen my mate Stu, top guy. Stuart!

(One for the RDR2 cool kids)


(https://i.ibb.co/dMFgjPP/Screenshot-2019-03-17-at-13-21-19.png) (https://ibb.co/dMFgjPP)


"Stuart!? Has anyone seen a Villa fan called Stuart? Stu? Stu!?  Lovely fella, but he went missing, and now Ads is all alone.  Stu?  STUART?!  Well the hell are you, Ads is so worried!"

That bloody Gavin. Haha. I try and avoid going to Rhodes unless I really have to. Just to avoid that chap shouting 'Gavin'.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Stu on March 17, 2019, 01:32:50 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on March 17, 2019, 01:18:54 PM
I'd forgotten about him. Probably on Owls & Buzzards by now.

I'm surprised he's not back on here claiming Wednesday's results as vindication.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ASHTONVILLA on March 17, 2019, 01:45:38 PM
Amazing what a difference Grealish has made, and obviousy delighted with the return to form.

I am still concerned about just how badly we faded with Grealish out, and how we failed to adapt our play to suit the remaining players. But hopefully it was a blip and we go about recruiting players that can play this system, which is a hell of lot better to watch than anything we have seen in recent years when it functions properly.

I must admit I was scratching my head at the January transfer activity, but both Hause and Mings look very good now and the whole defence is so much better than before.

Starting to believe we can get promoted this season!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Neil Hawkes on March 17, 2019, 01:52:28 PM
Quote from: ASHTONVILLA on March 17, 2019, 01:45:38 PM
Amazing what a difference Grealish has made, and obviousy delighted with the return to form.

I am still concerned about just how badly we faded with Grealish out, and how we failed to adapt our play to suit the remaining players. But hopefully it was a blip and we go about recruiting players that can play this system, which is a hell of lot better to watch than anything we have seen in recent years when it functions properly.

I must admit I was scratching my head at the January transfer activity, but both Hause and Mings look very good now and the whole defence is so much better than before.

Starting to believe we can get promoted this season!
Although Jack being out affected our results badly, I would also say that if he had been out for longer we would still have seen an improvement in recent results with the back-line becoming more solid. We've gone from shipping goals for fun to not shipping many at all, that I would not attribute to Jacks' return, more so the combination of Mings, Hause & Steer improving every game, (and whatever fullbacks have been brought in not by first choice, but to cover for more injuries)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on March 17, 2019, 02:01:29 PM
The back line has been very much improved but we play much deeper without Jack. He along with McGinn forces the opppents back but not only that makes each and every player feel bigger, faster, taller, stronger. The confidence he brings is immeasurable and even if he isn’t directly involved in goals and assists his movement and presence on the ball just opens up so much space for others. Look at the off the ball running now to when he was out. Night and day is an understatement.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nunkin1965 on March 17, 2019, 02:20:28 PM
Quote from: Stu on March 17, 2019, 01:32:50 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on March 17, 2019, 01:18:54 PM
I'd forgotten about him. Probably on Owls & Buzzards by now.

I'm surprised he's not back on here claiming Wednesday's results as vindication.
Next defeat he’ll be back.
Shame as I have a “Deano is God” T Shirt ready to post out to him to mark our upturn in form.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on March 17, 2019, 02:41:12 PM
The backline has certainly improved. 2 goals in 5 games has seen us move from 3rd worst to 9th worst defence.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: walsall villain on March 17, 2019, 02:46:14 PM
Quote from: Ads on March 17, 2019, 02:41:12 PM
The backline has certainly improved. 2 goals in 5 games has seen us move from 3rd worst to 9th worst defence.
I’ve stopped shitting myself every time we have the ball in and around our area. It’s a big if but if we can keep going without injuries we might actually do it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 17, 2019, 02:48:55 PM
With Jack in the team we spend more time in possession and we have more time and space,
.
Without him we allow opposition teams to dominate the midfield and put more pressure on our defense.
So some of the improvement is a better defense but the majority is an effective midfield.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on March 17, 2019, 02:53:29 PM
The thing for Dean to fix is how to keep playing in the same manner if Jack is not available. The problem is December and January was that stopped  doing that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 17, 2019, 02:56:43 PM
Jack makes such a difference, he loses the ball so rarely. It's either an accurate pass or he's fouled. Amazes me how rarely he's dispossessed cleanly.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Axl Rose on March 17, 2019, 03:03:40 PM
Quote from: Nunkin1965 on March 17, 2019, 02:20:28 PM
Quote from: Stu on March 17, 2019, 01:32:50 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on March 17, 2019, 01:18:54 PM
I'd forgotten about him. Probably on Owls & Buzzards by now.

I'm surprised he's not back on here claiming Wednesday's results as vindication.
Next defeat he’ll be back.
Shame as I have a “Deano is God” T Shirt ready to post out to him to mark our upturn in form.

I've no doubt we'll beat Sheff Wednesday in a couple of weeks. Bruce has got them doing well, to be fair, but our movement will be too much for them.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on March 17, 2019, 04:33:15 PM
Quote from: ASHTONVILLA on March 17, 2019, 01:45:38 PM
Amazing what a difference Grealish has made, and obviousy delighted with the return to form.

I am still concerned about just how badly we faded with Grealish out, and how we failed to adapt our play to suit the remaining players.

One of the key issues was possibly fitness. So many games, little recovery time, the team were their own worst enemy, constantly giving the ball away, a complete lack of movement and results to show it. Compare to yesterday, our third game in 6 days and the energy levels were on another level. Oh and of course, we can't ignore confidence. There are examples right across the side but probably none more than Elmo. He was generally shocking whenever he played, could beat the first man with his crosses and now he looks like a skillful, energetic, clever full back. The technique he showed yesterday in the build up to our second goal was worth the cost of the ticket alone. A real joy to watch.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on March 17, 2019, 06:49:39 PM
Quote from: olaftab on March 17, 2019, 02:53:29 PM
The thing for Dean to fix is how to keep playing in the same manner if Jack is not available...
I’d say there are a few strategies for those inevitable occasions when JG is unavailable to play:
- get O’Hare, Ramsey and - possibly - El Ghazi prepared enough that they can take the #10 role when required
- bring in Lolley or someone else showing high potential as an additional ‘one to mark’
- make a cheeky / audacious bid for Eden Hazard!

I think it is as much about improvIng the overall MF quality as having a readymade replacement. It’s no coincidence that JG’s return has brought the best out of McGinn, and - indeed - Whelan. Pack the MF with great players and the absence of 1 won’t be as hard felt.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on March 17, 2019, 07:23:41 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on March 17, 2019, 02:56:43 PM
Jack makes such a difference, he loses the ball so rarely. It's either an accurate pass or he's fouled. Amazes me how rarely he's dispossessed cleanly.

I've said it a few times but the way he gets a toe to the ball ahead of the defender every time reminds me massively of Zidane. I'm not saying he'll go on to be as good but in that one area he's developed a very similar technique and it works brilliantly because it just draws defenders into challenges they shouldn't be making and either creates space or wins free kicks.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on March 17, 2019, 07:33:10 PM
There's no comparison with Zidane.

His 'monkeys bum' hairstyle was not even in the same league as Jack.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: footyskillz on March 17, 2019, 09:25:19 PM
ftp://
Quote from: footyskillz on February 16, 2019, 10:04:44 AM
Quote from: mr underhill on February 15, 2019, 09:06:45 AM
I thought Skillz had  declared he was going into hiding for a while?

Ha yes!
I'm going now and be back after the ' tough ' run in march !
Not a peep from me in meantime


I'm pleased I now it's a positive site .
But as the fortunes changed believe me I wanted to peep up.

So many high lights

That footyskillz goal Grealish volleyed in was Uber supreme.

And I would have also being strongly touted Blues to have a 3 matches behind closed doors and no fans allowed.
Look where we are in the league !!! Can any one believe this !!

And those results !!
I was actually not going back if Villa messed that up !

Up the villa.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on March 17, 2019, 09:50:25 PM
Some reports coming out of the Washington Post that we will be in DC for a pre season game. Count me in for that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on March 17, 2019, 09:53:39 PM
I like the fact that we are able to pass the ball all over the park and close the opposition down quickly.  We have the players able to press the play but to do something productive with the ball once we win it back quickly.  That's the beauty of having Jack and SJM in the side too. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KRS on March 17, 2019, 10:25:59 PM
...and yet just a few weeks ago the team could barely pass to a team mate and kept giving away possession cheaply. The confidence oozing through the team at the moment is there for all to see.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: adrenachrome on March 19, 2019, 04:45:11 PM
Quote

Aston Villa
‏Verified account @AVFCOfficial
7h7 hours ago

Today we're saying happy birthday to the gaffer 🎉

#OneOfOurOwn #AVFC
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KRS on March 19, 2019, 04:56:24 PM
Happy birthday Dean! :)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Deano's Mullet on March 19, 2019, 05:05:56 PM
Happy birthday from one Deano to another! Deano Smith's Claret Blue Army!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Diablo on March 28, 2019, 08:10:22 PM


Great to hear that Tammy is fit for Blackburn although DS mentions he's had a groin injury as well as the reported calf injury.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sickbeggar on April 06, 2019, 06:53:10 PM
As someone who was worried he'd struggle here due to expectation and not being a big name, I think whatever happens this season, he deserves the time to build his own team over the next 2/3 seasons. The most pleasing thing for me is how the competition has increased - the bench now looks strong, not because of new personnel but because you get in the team on form not reputation and it shows with the performances of Adomah, Kodjia and Tuanzebe when they came on. The days of players being on the bench purely to make up numbers seems gone,
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on April 06, 2019, 07:19:54 PM
If only we had Dean Smith from the very start of the campaign...
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on April 06, 2019, 07:48:20 PM
Quote from: sickbeggar on April 06, 2019, 06:53:10 PM
As someone who was worried he'd struggle here due to expectation and not being a big name, I think whatever happens this season, he deserves the time to build his own team over the next 2/3 seasons. The most pleasing thing for me is how the competition has increased - the bench now looks strong, not because of new personnel but because you get in the team on form not reputation and it shows with the performances of Adomah, Kodjia and Tuanzebe when they came on. The days of players being on the bench purely to make up numbers seems gone,

Apart from Mings and Hause, everyone was here and available under our previous manager. And now look at us! It's not just the results, it's the manner of how they're being achieved with virtually the same squad, and the players have all heavily bought into the ethos.

The PL will be a massive challenge for Smith, but he's a modern coach, and I see nothing in him to suggest he wouldn't consider himself up to the task. He was brought in for a reason, I expect him to be backed, and I believe he'll do us proud.

Right man, right club, right time. I love him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sickbeggar on April 06, 2019, 08:03:36 PM
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on April 06, 2019, 07:48:20 PM
Quote from: sickbeggar on April 06, 2019, 06:53:10 PM
As someone who was worried he'd struggle here due to expectation and not being a big name, I think whatever happens this season, he deserves the time to build his own team over the next 2/3 seasons. The most pleasing thing for me is how the competition has increased - the bench now looks strong, not because of new personnel but because you get in the team on form not reputation and it shows with the performances of Adomah, Kodjia and Tuanzebe when they came on. The days of players being on the bench purely to make up numbers seems gone,

Apart from Mings and Hause, everyone was here and available under our previous manager. And now look at us! It's not just the results, it's the manner of how they're being achieved with virtually the same squad, and the players have all heavily bought into the ethos.

The PL will be a massive challenge for Smith, but he's a modern coach, and I see nothing in him to suggest he wouldn't consider himself up to the task. He was brought in for a reason, I expect him to be backed, and I believe he'll do us proud.

Right man, right club, right time. I love him.


yep its deffo a change of mindset. I'm sure we've had Tuenzebe Adomah, Hourihane and Kodjia on the bench before but they've been absolute shoe-ins to start in the past under Bruce and now they've got to fight to get back in the side. And players like chester to come back as well. Before we were just swapping one out of form player for another
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brend'Watkins on April 06, 2019, 08:22:50 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on April 06, 2019, 07:19:54 PM
If only we had Dean Smith from the very start of the campaign...

Or even, if only Grealish didn’t get injured. With Smith as manager obviously.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on April 07, 2019, 09:07:42 AM
It’s also great that Jack has not been at his absolute best in the last two games as goals and assists have come from around the team. No one can say we are a one man team.

Dean Smith, please, please finish the job!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT on April 07, 2019, 10:16:02 AM
Quote from: Newby on April 07, 2019, 09:07:42 AM
It’s also great that Jack has not been at his absolute best in the last two games as goals and assists have come from around the team. No one can say we are a one man team.

Dean Smith, please, please finish the job!

The jobs finished when he's standing there with the Champions League trophy...😉
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on April 07, 2019, 02:47:25 PM
He's certainly put bums on seats. The online ticket site lists only 42 seats available in the entire ground for next Saturday.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on April 07, 2019, 03:20:01 PM
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on April 07, 2019, 02:47:25 PM
He's certainly put bums on seats. The online ticket site lists only 42 seats available in the entire ground for next Saturday.

You know that kind of information would have been useful before I put in my crowd prediction. Thanks! Thanks for nothing!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: jwarry on April 07, 2019, 04:48:48 PM
Quote from: Newby on April 07, 2019, 09:07:42 AM
It’s also great that Jack has not been at his absolute best in the last two games as goals and assists have come from around the team. No one can say we are a one man team.

Dean Smith, please, please finish the job!

Hope Jack is saving himself for the big games to come
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: frank black on April 10, 2019, 10:02:59 PM
Great management today brilliant half time change and tactics.

Man of the match, we’ll done Deano
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on April 10, 2019, 10:04:22 PM
Well done Dean that second half was tremendous.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy65 on April 10, 2019, 10:05:17 PM
I actually liked the aggression he is showing toward the fourth official. Making his point very forcefully. Love the passion
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Fred Crump on April 10, 2019, 10:51:26 PM
Great by Deano.  I can’t resist saying it but there were some on here who are notably absent these days who wanted him gone in February. So much for their ‘insight’ !
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dazvillain on April 10, 2019, 10:52:57 PM
Just had a tweet saying that players in dressing room too noisy that Deano couldn’t be heard in his press interview post math. Love it
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on April 10, 2019, 10:54:09 PM
Even the Rotherham Manager, Paul Warne acknowledging Villa for the turnaround, the harshness of the second yellow for Mings.  Fair play to him.  Dean was excellent tonight.  One of our own. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OCD on April 10, 2019, 10:55:05 PM
Apparently the job was too big for him.

The standard of coaching has improved so much.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TheMalandro on April 10, 2019, 11:30:01 PM
Quote from: Fred Crump on April 10, 2019, 10:51:26 PM
Great by Deano.  I can’t resist saying it but there were some on here who are notably absent these days who wanted him gone in February. So much for their ‘insight’ !

Has anybody said they wanted him sacked? I’ve not seen it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villafirst on April 10, 2019, 11:36:15 PM
Quote from: OCD on April 10, 2019, 10:55:05 PM
Apparently the job was too big for him.

The standard of coaching has improved so much.

Yes, where are the critics of Deano now??
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on April 10, 2019, 11:36:27 PM
Quote from: TheMalandro on April 10, 2019, 11:30:01 PM
Quote from: Fred Crump on April 10, 2019, 10:51:26 PM
Great by Deano.  I can’t resist saying it but there were some on here who are notably absent these days who wanted him gone in February. So much for their ‘insight’ !

Has anybody said they wanted him sacked? I’ve not seen it.


There was a "Smith Out" thread that appeared, it was only a few wanted him gone but there were some.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on April 10, 2019, 11:36:57 PM
*waves at Stuart*
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ColinMac on April 10, 2019, 11:40:01 PM
Great management tonight, bringing Kodjia on at HT changed the game, couldn’t imagine a potato headed former manager doing the same.

6 weeks ago decided to book a holiday knowing it meant I will be out of the country for the play off final, starting to think I may have ballsed up!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on April 10, 2019, 11:52:35 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on April 10, 2019, 11:36:57 PM
*waves at Stuart*

Yeah, where is that guy?!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chipsticks on April 11, 2019, 12:12:32 AM
Quote from: ColinMac on April 10, 2019, 11:40:01 PM
Great management tonight, bringing Kodjia on at HT changed the game, couldn’t imagine a potato headed former manager doing the same.

6 weeks ago decided to book a holiday knowing it meant I will be out of the country for the play off final, starting to think I may have ballsed up!

Understandable!

Towards the end of last year, I booked the day after the play off final off work in blind optimism and people have been taking the piss out of me for months.

The worm has turned...
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KRS on April 11, 2019, 12:25:01 AM
Quote from: ColinMac on April 10, 2019, 11:40:01 PM
6 weeks ago decided to book a holiday knowing it meant I will be out of the country for the play off final, starting to think I may have ballsed up!
My holiday plans for May have been on hold for a few weeks because of it...still can't book anything until the EFL announce the playoff semi dates.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on April 11, 2019, 02:00:40 AM
What's this Plan B bollox?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on April 11, 2019, 02:08:54 AM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on April 11, 2019, 02:00:40 AM
What's this Plan B bollox?

Hi Steve.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brassneck on April 11, 2019, 05:52:43 PM
Things are so easy to highlight in hindsight but massive credit must go to Deano last night.

He sacrificed wingers but went 2 up top with only 10 men on the field - It paid dividends because we seemed to be on the front foot for most of the 2nd half.

Had Bruce been at the helm last night, Kodjia would never have got a sniff.  It would have been Jedi for Albert (the obvious one) followed by Lansbury/Whelan for ElGhazi.  We would have then sat deep with 2 banks of 4 with Tammy 30 yards away, being asked to chase down endless hoofs.

Once again, well done Deano.  The players are taking the credit and rightly so but they wouldn't have pulled off that result without Deano's bravery.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: clash city rocker on April 11, 2019, 06:10:39 PM
If only Dean Smith could have rocked up at VP ,12 no this previous. If only..
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: andyh on April 12, 2019, 07:13:22 AM
Fuck.
He’s only gone and won manager of the month. That’s all we need going into tomorrow’s game!



https://twitter.com/jonnygould/status/1116581418740535296?s=21


Well done gaffer 👍
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on April 12, 2019, 07:28:55 AM
Oh for Gods sake.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on April 12, 2019, 07:43:04 AM
Hope he beats the myth and is not cursed by this as so many are!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Pete3206 on April 12, 2019, 07:53:11 AM
Worst possible news!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on April 12, 2019, 08:30:41 AM
MOTM 18/19 winners, and their subsequent game
August, Bielsa (Leeds), Millwall (a), drew
September, Moore (WBA), Reading (h), won
October, McClaren (QPR), Brentford (h), won
November, Farke (Norwich), Bolton (h), won
December, Adkins (Hull City), Sheffield Wednesday (h), won
January, Mowbray (Blackburn Rovers), Bristol City (h), lost
February, Wilder (Sheffield United), Rotherham (h), won

Doesn't actually look like the curse it gets portrayed as.

Only Championship MOTM? Not World MOTM? Ah well, I suppose global domination takes time, whatever your field. It must've been an easy decision for the panel. Congratulations, brilliantly earned.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: amfy on April 12, 2019, 08:54:30 AM
Quote from: KRS on April 11, 2019, 12:25:01 AM
Quote from: ColinMac on April 10, 2019, 11:40:01 PM
6 weeks ago decided to book a holiday knowing it meant I will be out of the country for the play off final, starting to think I may have ballsed up!
My holiday plans for May have been on hold for a few weeks because of it...still can't book anything until the EFL announce the playoff semi dates.

We’re trying to arrange to move house. ‘What date can you complete on?’ - errrm hold on......
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Marlon From Bearwood on April 12, 2019, 09:25:17 AM
Quote from: KRS on April 11, 2019, 12:25:01 AM
Quote from: ColinMac on April 10, 2019, 11:40:01 PM
6 weeks ago decided to book a holiday knowing it meant I will be out of the country for the play off final, starting to think I may have ballsed up!
My holiday plans for May have been on hold for a few weeks because of it...still can't book anything until the EFL announce the playoff semi dates.

Based on recent years, the Semi finals will most likely be 10/11 and 13/14 of May.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dave P on April 12, 2019, 09:48:40 AM
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on April 12, 2019, 08:30:41 AM
MOTM 18/19 winners, and their subsequent game
August, Bielsa (Leeds), Millwall (a), drew
September, Moore (WBA), Reading (h), won
October, McClaren (QPR), Brentford (h), won
November, Farke (Norwich), Bolton (h), won
December, Adkins (Hull City), Sheffield Wednesday (h), won
January, Mowbray (Blackburn Rovers), Bristol City (h), lost
February, Wilder (Sheffield United), Rotherham (h), won

Doesn't actually look like the curse it gets portrayed as.

Only Championship MOTM? Not World MOTM? Ah well, I suppose global domination takes time, whatever your field. It must've been an easy decision for the panel. Congratulations, brilliantly earned.

But look at who that loss was against?!?!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on April 12, 2019, 09:53:44 AM
Sir Graham won it three months in a row so you can stop panicking.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on April 12, 2019, 10:08:03 AM
Quote from: Dave P on April 12, 2019, 09:48:40 AM
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on April 12, 2019, 08:30:41 AM
MOTM 18/19 winners, and their subsequent game
August, Bielsa (Leeds), Millwall (a), drew
September, Moore (WBA), Reading (h), won
October, McClaren (QPR), Brentford (h), won
November, Farke (Norwich), Bolton (h), won
December, Adkins (Hull City), Sheffield Wednesday (h), won
January, Mowbray (Blackburn Rovers), Bristol City (h), lost
February, Wilder (Sheffield United), Rotherham (h), won

Doesn't actually look like the curse it gets portrayed as.

Only Championship MOTM? Not World MOTM? Ah well, I suppose global domination takes time, whatever your field. It must've been an easy decision for the panel. Congratulations, brilliantly earned.

But look at who that loss was against?!?!

Prior to Tuesday, they'd picked up a meagre 4 points since, so I'm going to attribute it more to it being Blackburn reverting to type than anything else.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Roysmert on April 12, 2019, 10:36:50 AM
Deano we know you'm reading, so bloody well done cocka.
Sir Graham would be very proud.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: geolex on April 12, 2019, 02:19:33 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on April 12, 2019, 09:53:44 AM
Sir Graham won it three months in a row so you can stop panicking.
This alleged curse is only mentioned if the winning manager loses next match otherwise its ignored worry not people  no suck thing as  curse or superstitions  .. we will be fine ..touchwood etc etc
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on April 12, 2019, 02:37:54 PM
Ha! When you believe in things than you don't understand, you suffer - superstition ain't the way, brother.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on April 12, 2019, 03:20:27 PM
Superstitions are a funny thing, if you're in control of your own destiny but you firmly believe in a superstition it can have a massive positive or negative effect, making it self-fulfilling.

In this case it's nonsense because very few managers have any belief in it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: GordonCowansisthegreatest on April 12, 2019, 08:06:41 PM
How many times has Bruce won MOTM?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on April 12, 2019, 08:14:48 PM
Quote from: GordonCowansisthegreatest on April 12, 2019, 08:06:41 PM
How many times has Bruce won MOTM?

He has four promotions you know!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: GordonCowansisthegreatest on April 12, 2019, 09:06:36 PM
Nothing wrong with his long term memory then ;)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: geolex on April 13, 2019, 06:27:22 AM
Quote from: GordonCowansisthegreatest on April 12, 2019, 08:06:41 PM
How many times has Bruce won MOTM?
not sure but he;s always there or thereabouts
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brassneck on April 13, 2019, 07:19:04 AM
Quote from: geolex on April 13, 2019, 06:27:22 AM
Quote from: GordonCowansisthegreatest on April 12, 2019, 08:06:41 PM
How many times has Bruce won MOTM?
not sure but he;s always there or thereabouts

Got us to within 90 minutes of the big league you know?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Hookeysmith on April 13, 2019, 07:49:01 AM
I dont believe in superstition



Touch wood
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: frank black on April 13, 2019, 07:51:52 AM
Quote from: Hookeysmith on April 13, 2019, 07:49:01 AM
I dont believe in superstition



Touch wood

Me neither...................

Fingers crossed
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OCD on April 13, 2019, 11:47:51 PM
The number of players that have improved so much over the past few months really says something about the standard of coaching now Smith's had chance to work with them.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on April 14, 2019, 12:28:06 AM
I get the feeling that, even if we do not go up this season, we are in for a highly competitive challenge next season if we are still a Championship side.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mike on April 14, 2019, 08:53:15 AM
I remember being completely deflated when the window closed and we'd just signed players like Hause and Mings. I am currently gorging myself on my hat served with an enormous but delicious slice of humble pie.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on April 14, 2019, 09:01:56 AM
It really highlights the difference of approach to transfers between Smith and every manager we have had for some time. Where before it was a case of filling the squad where as now the players identified are to fit the system we need.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on April 14, 2019, 09:07:40 AM
yes but yesterday was pure Bruce in terms of the composition of the side, so to me it reinforced the view that it's the way you coach that counts.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: London Villan on April 14, 2019, 09:17:49 AM
What has changed though? Following his great start, the games in Jan and Feb were as bad as anything served up over the last 10 years - Wigan in particular. Yet the same group of players are now playing like a unit again, even without Jack, Mings and Hause.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on April 14, 2019, 01:15:06 PM
I guess Smith has a system of playing, most were not purchased to play that way and 2 years of Bruce Ball is the default mode unless drilled in and as soon as confidence is low we revert to that. We’re now on a great run and confidence is high. Maybe even though it was a very Bruce looking team yesterday the coaching, drilling and belief in the system is paying off even without Jack, Mings and Hause.

I really do think though any new signings will be bought knowing they play to our way of thinking and not just to bulk the squad as before.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KRS on April 14, 2019, 02:56:31 PM
It takes a while to implement change and improvements so may be we are just seeing the benefits of improved training methods, player conditioning and style of play. That all feeds into confidence and team spirit which is clear for us all to see on the pitch.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dave P on April 14, 2019, 03:10:32 PM
We had the lowest point (Wigan away) and the watershed moment (half time at stoke). The way he has got the team to respond to that is nothing short of phenomenal.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: purpletrousers on April 14, 2019, 05:31:43 PM
Quote from: London Villan on April 14, 2019, 09:17:49 AM
What has changed though? Following his great start, the games in Jan and Feb were as bad as anything served up over the last 10 years - Wigan in particular. Yet the same group of players are now playing like a unit again, even without Jack, Mings and Hause.

Maybe trust, belief? Good (not random) Jan signings settling in, Tammy not walking, Mings responding to someone’s ‘I hope you’ll be here next seadon’ with (if it’s true, I can imagine it is) ‘I hope so too’, Jack maturing yet more with the Captaincy, overall a group that are committed, believe and will be there for each other.

Just as in health the placebo effect - i.e.* belief* (that needs loads more research) affects recovery, so hope, trust, friendship and well actually love and appreciation of each other will improve performance, pushing through the pain/stamina barrier, will to win.

I don’t get to many matches atm so rely loads on what I read on this board, but it’s been wonderful to read the re-birth of least favourites like Taylor, and Whelan. Coaching and man management must be part of it too? (Plus some handy timing to avoid the best teams until hopefully we have the points)

The exact opposite of a club in freefall, it’s a positively reinforcing upwards spiral, starting to believe they could carry on enjoying a project together in the next division up must start to be more and more attractive.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on April 14, 2019, 05:39:47 PM
Quote from: OCD on April 13, 2019, 11:47:51 PM
The number of players that have improved so much over the past few months really says something about the standard of coaching now Smith's had chance to work with them.

It can only be. There's not a single Villa player that I don't love right now. What's so frustrating is when you look back at players like Whelan, who came with fantastic references from Stoke fans, he's been here for nearly 2 years and we're only now seeing the player they were talking about. Jedi was the same, Palace fans loved him yet he never looked at home at Villa Park. Yesterday he played like he owned the place. Taylor would have driven away by most fans just to get rid of him a few months back, even Lansbury who almost everybody had written off looked very comfortable yesterday. Axel has slotted back in seamlessly and to think he was previously played at bloody right back, despite us having what four right backs in the squad.

The list goes on. My only concern with Dean Smith is one mentioned by Brentford fans, how he fails to get out of a slump. Right now that can wait as it's currently the least of our problems. Oh and respect to him not only on winning the Manager of the Month Award but publicly sharing the award with his backroom team. He's a keeper.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on April 14, 2019, 05:47:28 PM
A Kangaroo Court, 'you are 14th, fucking 14th!',  followed by a punch-up or the promise of a hefty bonus to get promoted.  As well as Smith/O'Kelly and JT 'clicking' with the players.  I like a conspiracy.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: berneboy on April 14, 2019, 07:38:12 PM
Let me say this publicly - I love Dean Smith.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on April 14, 2019, 08:55:05 PM
but does he love you? Unrequited love is , like, so sad.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: XXVilla on April 14, 2019, 09:11:45 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on April 14, 2019, 05:39:47 PM
Quote from: OCD on April 13, 2019, 11:47:51 PM
The number of players that have improved so much over the past few months really says something about the standard of coaching now Smith's had chance to work with them.

It can only be. There's not a single Villa player that I don't love right now. What's so frustrating is when you look back at players like Whelan, who came with fantastic references from Stoke fans, he's been here for nearly 2 years and we're only now seeing the player they were talking about. Jedi was the same, Palace fans loved him yet he never looked at home at Villa Park. Yesterday he played like he owned the place. Taylor would have driven away by most fans just to get rid of him a few months back, even Lansbury who almost everybody had written off looked very comfortable yesterday. Axel has slotted back in seamlessly and to think he was previously played at bloody right back, despite us having what four right backs in the squad.

The list goes on. My only concern with Dean Smith is one mentioned by Brentford fans, how he fails to get out of a slump. Right now that can wait as it's currently the least of our problems. Oh and respect to him not only on winning the Manager of the Month Award but publicly sharing the award with his backroom team. He's a keeper.

He’s got us out of a slump hasn’t he?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on April 14, 2019, 09:17:53 PM
He most certainly has.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT on April 15, 2019, 08:47:21 AM
Dean must be very proud to be in charge during this run.

Best run since 1975 could become best run since 1910 on Friday afternoon.

Anyone here on H&V who saw that 1910 run and could compare to the current squad? 😉
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OCD on April 15, 2019, 12:58:04 PM
Makes a change to the various records we've been setting for the past 10+ years.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Hookeysmith on April 15, 2019, 02:39:22 PM
I wanted him before and during Bruce for no other reason but his football philosophy - the first time I saw Brentford close up I loved the way he had taken a team of "non stars" and made them play exactly how I like the game played.

Lets face it they wiped the floor with us nearly every time we played them

If we get up then I can see him pitting his wills against better managers with better players
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mike on April 15, 2019, 03:20:00 PM
I must admit that one of my issues with appointing Smith was that I didn't see him as more than a Championship manager. I'm not so sure now...
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Smirker on April 15, 2019, 03:34:35 PM
Quote from: CT on April 15, 2019, 08:47:21 AM
Dean must be very proud to be in charge during this run.

Best run since 1975 could become best run since 1910 on Friday afternoon.

Anyone here on H&V who saw that 1910 run and could compare to the current squad? 😉

😂
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on April 15, 2019, 03:54:40 PM
After breaking a few unwanted shit ones in recent years, this would be a fantastic record to beat.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on April 15, 2019, 04:14:27 PM
Quote from: CT on April 15, 2019, 08:47:21 AM
Dean must be very proud to be in charge during this run.

Best run since 1975 could become best run since 1910 on Friday afternoon.

Anyone here on H&V who saw that 1910 run and could compare to the current squad? 😉
My memory is a little hazy but let me have a go:   

1.Arthur Cartlidge. GK Sorry but none of our half a dozen  keepers come even close.
2.Tommy Lyons Superb right back.  Elmo/Cafu can touch him
3.Freddie Miles sweet foot left back even Chalie Atkin doesn't come close. Taylor is an amatuer
5.George Hunter versatile defender. A bit like Jedinaik but with speed and mobility
6.Chris Buckley  Paul McGrath of his day. Can't see anyone in current team equal to that man.
4.George Trantor Strong forthright midfielder. When he tackled  you stayed tackled. No one in current team to match up to this man.
7.Albert Hall A marauding attacker from midfield. Only Dennis comes close to him but no one in this team.
8.Bill Gerrish Superb midfielder but I suppose Jack could tie his shoelaces.
10.George Bache Best number 10. We don't have an equal in this team. Weighed in with 22 goal.
9.Harry Hampton Goal machine. Possible the best centre forward till Pongo came along. 29 goals
11.Charlie Wallace England's Winger of choice. Ripped defences apart that season. Adomah/Green are pedestrians compared to this man.

Team played a changeable formation . Mostly 433 but reverting to 442 when necessary.
So my conclusion is that this present team is ok but no where near those 1910 boys.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on April 15, 2019, 04:53:39 PM
Cheers for that, aftab. You set me off a-googling, and I came across a snippet from "Triumphs of the football field" (Aston Villa / Archie Hunter), chapter 4, "The rise of the Aston Villa" (!).
Quote
For example, in the match against the Small Heath Swifts we won by 22 goals to none; and some humourist fetched our goalkeeper, Copley, a chair to sit upon, as he had nothing at all to do, and was getting tired of standing and never having a chance of a kick.

Not that relevant to anything, but it tickled me!

Here (https://playupliverpool.com/1890/11/01/triumphs-of-the-football-field-aston-villa-archie-hunter/amp/), if you don't already know everything there is to know about the mighty, mighty Villa.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on April 15, 2019, 05:07:11 PM
My lovely Villa mad Mom ( b. 29.7.1902  d. 21.6. 2000) says she saw that team play.  In her diary she claims Harry Hampton gave her a ride on the crossbar of his bike when he called at her house to go fishing with my grandfather Ben Jones.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on April 15, 2019, 06:56:48 PM
Quote from: olaftab on April 15, 2019, 04:14:27 PM

1.Arthur Cartlidge.


That is a truly brilliant name. Imagine the injury list back then.  Arthur Cartlidge (half a cartilage)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on April 15, 2019, 06:58:17 PM
Quote from: Risso on April 15, 2019, 06:56:48 PM
Quote from: olaftab on April 15, 2019, 04:14:27 PM

1.Arthur Cartlidge.


That is a truly brilliant name. Imagine the injury list back then.  Arthur Cartlidge (half a cartilage)

He was distant relative of Ivo Stas.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chinchilla Bathhouse on April 15, 2019, 07:22:07 PM
Also in the same school team as Neil Igament-Damage and Buster Killease.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on April 16, 2019, 11:52:38 AM
Quote from: mike on April 15, 2019, 03:20:00 PM
I must admit that one of my issues with appointing Smith was that I didn't see him as more than a Championship manager. I'm not so sure now...
Not sure applies both ways. The PL has destroyed many a good young managers. There are not a big list of Eddie Howe types who have cut the mustard in the top League. We must stick to a plan and back him with money if we go up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on April 16, 2019, 12:56:44 PM
Quote from: olaftab on April 16, 2019, 11:52:38 AM
Quote from: mike on April 15, 2019, 03:20:00 PM
I must admit that one of my issues with appointing Smith was that I didn't see him as more than a Championship manager. I'm not so sure now...
Not sure applies both ways. The PL has destroyed many a good young managers. There are not a big list of Eddie Howe types who have cut the mustard in the top League. We must stick to a plan and back him with money if we go up.
Smith's 50, isn't he? Hardly young ...
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on April 16, 2019, 01:00:50 PM
Quote from: Mister E on April 16, 2019, 12:56:44 PM
Quote from: olaftab on April 16, 2019, 11:52:38 AM
Quote from: mike on April 15, 2019, 03:20:00 PM
I must admit that one of my issues with appointing Smith was that I didn't see him as more than a Championship manager. I'm not so sure now...
Not sure applies both ways. The PL has destroyed many a good young managers. There are not a big list of Eddie Howe types who have cut the mustard in the top League. We must stick to a plan and back him with money if we go up.
Smith's 50, isn't he? Hardly young ...

48 last month, which makes him a kid in my book.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Bad English on April 16, 2019, 01:01:28 PM
Quote from: Mister E on April 16, 2019, 12:56:44 PM
Quote from: olaftab on April 16, 2019, 11:52:38 AM
Quote from: mike on April 15, 2019, 03:20:00 PM
I must admit that one of my issues with appointing Smith was that I didn't see him as more than a Championship manager. I'm not so sure now...
Not sure applies both ways. The PL has destroyed many a good young managers. There are not a big list of Eddie Howe types who have cut the mustard in the top League. We must stick to a plan and back him with money if we go up.
Smith's 50, isn't he? Hardly young ...
Cheeky fucker!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on April 16, 2019, 03:14:34 PM
Quote from: Mister E on April 16, 2019, 12:56:44 PM
Quote from: olaftab on April 16, 2019, 11:52:38 AM
Quote from: mike on April 15, 2019, 03:20:00 PM
I must admit that one of my issues with appointing Smith was that I didn't see him as more than a Championship manager. I'm not so sure now...
Not sure applies both ways. The PL has destroyed many a good young managers. There are not a big list of Eddie Howe types who have cut the mustard in the top League. We must stick to a plan and back him with money if we go up.
Smith's 50, isn't he? Hardly young ...
I didn’t say he was and anyway that’s not the point of my post and also as other have said you geeky so and so😊
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on April 16, 2019, 08:08:16 PM
Quote from: Bad English on April 16, 2019, 01:01:28 PM
Quote from: Mister E on April 16, 2019, 12:56:44 PM
Quote from: olaftab on April 16, 2019, 11:52:38 AM
Quote from: mike on April 15, 2019, 03:20:00 PM
I must admit that one of my issues with appointing Smith was that I didn't see him as more than a Championship manager. I'm not so sure now...
Not sure applies both ways. The PL has destroyed many a good young managers. There are not a big list of Eddie Howe types who have cut the mustard in the top League. We must stick to a plan and back him with money if we go up.
Smith's 50, isn't he? Hardly young ...
Cheeky fucker!

Seconded!!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on April 16, 2019, 08:26:31 PM
Quote from: Newby on April 16, 2019, 08:08:16 PM
Quote from: Bad English on April 16, 2019, 01:01:28 PM
Quote from: Mister E on April 16, 2019, 12:56:44 PM
Quote from: olaftab on April 16, 2019, 11:52:38 AM
Quote from: mike on April 15, 2019, 03:20:00 PM
I must admit that one of my issues with appointing Smith was that I didn't see him as more than a Championship manager. I'm not so sure now...
Not sure applies both ways. The PL has destroyed many a good young managers. There are not a big list of Eddie Howe types who have cut the mustard in the top League. We must stick to a plan and back him with money if we go up.
Smith's 50, isn't he? Hardly young ...
Cheeky fucker!

Seconded!!

Thirded!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on April 16, 2019, 08:40:55 PM
Old bastards!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on April 16, 2019, 08:55:52 PM
When we went on our first exciting run under Deano (which was derailed by them stripey cloggers) he came out with this pearl "it's not just about beating the team your playing today it's also about putting fear into the team your playing next" I remember thinking i really really like that comment. Now that philosophy appears to be actually coming to fruition. Dean Smith & co are bit by bit dragging our illustrious club into the modern football era. Exciting times.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: adrenachrome on April 16, 2019, 08:56:34 PM
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on April 16, 2019, 10:20:17 PM
Quote from: The Edge on April 16, 2019, 08:55:52 PM
When we went on our first exciting run under Deano (which was derailed by them stripey cloggers) he came out with this pearl "it's not just about beating the team your playing today it's also about putting fear into the team your playing next" I remember thinking i really really like that comment. Now that philosophy appears to be actually coming to fruition. Dean Smith & co are bit by bit dragging our once illustrious club into the modern football era. Exciting times.

Point of order - the word 'once' has no place next to the word 'illustrious' when describing Aston Villa.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: berneboy on April 16, 2019, 10:37:25 PM
Deleted
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on April 16, 2019, 11:12:05 PM
Quote from: Risso on April 16, 2019, 08:40:55 PM
Old bastards!

I'm on my way to Nether Heyford sunshine, if only I can remember where I parked my car!!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT Villan on April 17, 2019, 05:05:19 PM
Quote from: Newby on April 16, 2019, 11:12:05 PM
I'm on my way to Nether Heyford sunshine, if only I can remember where I parked my car!!

Are you Jermaine Pennant ?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on April 17, 2019, 05:36:50 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on April 16, 2019, 10:20:17 PM
Quote from: The Edge on April 16, 2019, 08:55:52 PM
When we went on our first exciting run under Deano (which was derailed by them stripey cloggers) he came out with this pearl "it's not just about beating the team your playing today it's also about putting fear into the team your playing next" I remember thinking i really really like that comment. Now that philosophy appears to be actually coming to fruition. Dean Smith & co are bit by bit dragging our once illustrious club into the modern football era. Exciting times.

Point of order - the word 'once' has no place next to the word 'illustrious' when describing Aston Villa.
Pont taken. Original post amended.
I think im quite guarded nowadays when talking about the villa. Fans from every club in this league accuse us of being both deluded and arrogant so i try to keep things under my hat a lot of the time.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT on April 17, 2019, 07:01:57 PM
Enjoyed his press conference, especially the bit where he said "I always smile when I drive in and see the big Aston Villa sign". 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mike on April 17, 2019, 07:27:11 PM
Quote from: CT on April 17, 2019, 07:01:57 PM
Enjoyed his press conference, especially the bit where he said "I always smile when I drive in and see the big Aston Villa sign". 

Who would you rather be, Ian Taylor or Dean Smith?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT on April 18, 2019, 11:27:12 AM
Quote from: mike on April 17, 2019, 07:27:11 PM
Quote from: CT on April 17, 2019, 07:01:57 PM
Enjoyed his press conference, especially the bit where he said "I always smile when I drive in and see the big Aston Villa sign". 

Who would you rather be, Ian Taylor or Dean Smith?

Probably Tayls. Played, scored and won a winners medal at Wembley. Scored loads of times at Villa Park.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: XXVilla on April 18, 2019, 12:03:39 PM
Quote from: CT on April 18, 2019, 11:27:12 AM
Quote from: mike on April 17, 2019, 07:27:11 PM
Quote from: CT on April 17, 2019, 07:01:57 PM
Enjoyed his press conference, especially the bit where he said "I always smile when I drive in and see the big Aston Villa sign". 

Who would you rather be, Ian Taylor or Dean Smith?

Probably Tayls. Played, scored and won a winners medal at Wembley. Scored loads of times at Villa Park.

All of the glory, none of the pressure
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dave P on April 18, 2019, 12:35:52 PM
Quote from: mike on April 17, 2019, 07:27:11 PM
Quote from: CT on April 17, 2019, 07:01:57 PM
Enjoyed his press conference, especially the bit where he said "I always smile when I drive in and see the big Aston Villa sign". 

Who would you rather be, Ian Taylor or Dean Smith?

As long as Dean Smith prefers to be Dean Smith then its all good.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: clash city rocker on April 18, 2019, 03:19:34 PM
Quote from: The Edge on April 17, 2019, 05:36:50 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on April 16, 2019, 10:20:17 PM
Quote from: The Edge on April 16, 2019, 08:55:52 PM
When we went on our first exciting run under Deano (which was derailed by them stripey cloggers) he came out with this pearl "it's not just about beating the team your playing today it's also about putting fear into the team your playing next" I remember thinking i really really like that comment. Now that philosophy appears to be actually coming to fruition. Dean Smith & co are bit by bit dragging our once illustrious club into the modern football era. Exciting times.

Point of order - the word 'once' has no place next to the word 'illustrious' when describing Aston Villa.
Pont taken. Original post amended.
I think im quite guarded nowadays when talking about the villa. Fans from every club in this league accuse us of being both deluded and arrogant so i try to keep things under my hat a lot of the time.

I'm not ..  fuck em all.. I work with a nose and a dingle. On the back wall of our works unit someone has sprayed......8 out of 8....it all points to me apparently...!! I have been told to get rid of it and hopefully Saturday morning I will and replace it with.....9 out of 9.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: DennisHodgetts on April 18, 2019, 03:47:14 PM
Quote from: clash city rocker on April 18, 2019, 03:19:34 PM
Quote from: The Edge on April 17, 2019, 05:36:50 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on April 16, 2019, 10:20:17 PM
Quote from: The Edge on April 16, 2019, 08:55:52 PM
When we went on our first exciting run under Deano (which was derailed by them stripey cloggers) he came out with this pearl "it's not just about beating the team your playing today it's also about putting fear into the team your playing next" I remember thinking i really really like that comment. Now that philosophy appears to be actually coming to fruition. Dean Smith & co are bit by bit dragging our once illustrious club into the modern football era. Exciting times.

Point of order - the word 'once' has no place next to the word 'illustrious' when describing Aston Villa.
Pont taken. Original post amended.
I think im quite guarded nowadays when talking about the villa. Fans from every club in this league accuse us of being both deluded and arrogant so i try to keep things under my hat a lot of the time.

I'm not ..  fuck em all.. I work with a nose and a dingle. On the back wall of our works unit someone has sprayed......8 out of 8....it all points to me apparently...!! I have been told to get rid of it and hopefully Saturday morning I will and replace it with.....9 out of 9.
I would wait until Tuesday mate otherwise you might have to do it twice in quick succession....
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dave P on April 19, 2019, 09:20:35 PM
Dean Smiths answer to the manager of the month curse is to probably go and win it again.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villa in Denmark on April 19, 2019, 09:25:27 PM
Quote from: Dave P on April 19, 2019, 09:20:35 PM
Dean Smiths answer to the manager of the month curse is to probably go and win it again.
Has anyone ever won it two months on the spin?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on April 19, 2019, 09:35:39 PM
They have in the PL, dunno about down here.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on April 19, 2019, 10:48:45 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on April 19, 2019, 09:35:39 PM
They have in the PL, dunno about down here.

Quite a few have - see linky - Warnock has done it 3 times at 3 different clubs. Nobody has done it 3 in row.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EFL_Championship_Manager_of_the_Month
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villan from luton on April 19, 2019, 10:57:31 PM
Every time I hear him speak I am more impressed. No nonsense and seems a humble bloke who is loving his job. I heard Jed Steer interview the other day and saying the defence and him get specialist training with John Terry. I thought it was a brave move by Smith bringing Terry on board, but has been inspired. He has got us playing some great football in a short time, long may it continue
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on April 20, 2019, 12:07:27 AM
Can I just say I love this bloke, his attitude, his approach to games and his demeanour whether we have won or lost.  I wish we would give him a chance even if we go on a bad run again.  I heard people on the airwaves and apparently people were on social media (whatever that is) calling for him to be sacked.  He is building something.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on April 20, 2019, 12:17:24 AM
To me Dean Smith has every chance to do what Eddie Howe has done at Bournemouth and then if he gets the right support and financial backing over time make as a very attractive and competitive PL side operating at minimum in the top 10 of the league. Lots will need to go right in the next 5 years to become a top 8 then a top 6 side consistently. But before getting ahead of ourselves he is creating what we all hoped he would and it would be a simply outstanding achievement if he was able to cap it all off at Wembley next month and secure promotion.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on April 20, 2019, 01:34:15 AM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on April 19, 2019, 10:48:45 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on April 19, 2019, 09:35:39 PM
They have in the PL, dunno about down here.

Quite a few have - see linky - Warnock has done it 3 times at 3 different clubs. Nobody has done it 3 in row.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EFL_Championship_Manager_of_the_Month

They don't seem to award it in May so hopefully Smith won't be able to win it three times in a row as we won't be in the Championship when the August award is allocated.

Everyone who has won two in a row has been promoted... so that could be a good omen if Smith does.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on April 20, 2019, 01:39:26 AM
To have only won it twice in 15 years is piss poor, shows how low we've sunk.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on April 20, 2019, 02:03:23 AM
Our record in the League One Manager of the Month award is even worse. Shameful.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on April 20, 2019, 02:11:27 AM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on April 20, 2019, 02:03:23 AM
Our record in the League One Manager of the Month award is even worse. Shameful.

Nearly 50 years since we won 2 league games in a row in division 3 so it's no surprise. 50 years, embarrassing.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on April 23, 2019, 09:09:23 AM
Cheers, Dean, you beautiful, beautiful man. Since landing here yesterday at Haven Hafan y Môr I've seen more Villa shirts than those of any other single club.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on April 23, 2019, 05:29:35 PM
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on April 23, 2019, 09:09:23 AM
Cheers, Dean, you beautiful, beautiful man. Since landing here yesterday at Haven Hafan y Môr I've seen more Villa shirts than those of any other single club.
I was in Burnham at the weekend. Same there. Villa shorts everywhere. Dean Smith has made us proud to show our colours again.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: wittonwarrior on April 23, 2019, 05:46:26 PM
Whatever happens from hereon in  Deano has worked some magic.  We were going nowhere fast until Stoke second half (away). 

Been a tadge lucky with decisions and the way things have gone, but it all evens out.  We have 4 premier players in the team, Mings, Grealish, McGinn and El Ghazi and its now showing.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villafirst on April 23, 2019, 06:16:15 PM
Quote from: wittonwarrior on April 23, 2019, 05:46:26 PM
Whatever happens from hereon in  Deano has worked some magic.  We were going nowhere fast until Stoke second half (away). 

Been a tadge lucky with decisions and the way things have gone, but it all evens out.  We have 4 premier players in the team, Mings, Grealish, McGinn and El Ghazi and its now showing.

Abraham not included??
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: vilan461 on April 23, 2019, 06:25:37 PM
Has done a tremendous job---- demeanour body language and face show he is loving his job---and speaks sense be it pre or post match---i used to cringe at post match interviews of previous managers---but Deano  tells it  truthfully as it is  no excuses --and is like a breath of fresh air----
 nice one Deano keep up the good work.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on April 23, 2019, 08:14:34 PM
Quote from: Villafirst on April 23, 2019, 06:16:15 PM
Quote from: wittonwarrior on April 23, 2019, 05:46:26 PM
Whatever happens from hereon in  Deano has worked some magic.  We were going nowhere fast until Stoke second half (away). 

Been a tadge lucky with decisions and the way things have gone, but it all evens out.  We have 4 premier players in the team, Mings, Grealish, McGinn and El Ghazi and its now showing.

Abraham not included??

Tuanzebe? Hause? When all fit, it's easier to count the weaker links.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: adrenachrome on April 23, 2019, 08:14:56 PM
Quote from: vilan461 on April 23, 2019, 06:25:37 PM
Has done a tremendous job---- demeanour body language and face show he is loving his job---and speaks sense be it pre or post match---i used to cringe at post match interviews of previous managers---but Deano  tells it  truthfully as it is  no excuses --and is like a breath of fresh air----
 nice one Deano keep up the good work.

Well said.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Monty on April 23, 2019, 09:39:00 PM
Don't know if this is even a slightly reasonable thing to say, but my instinct is that he's actually not getting enough credit. For years we've had managers whose man-management was good but tactics bad (MON) or the reverse (Garde), not to mention plenty who seemed fucking miserable at both. He seems the first to combine both elements and it's producing the most likeable Villa team in ages.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villa in Denmark on April 23, 2019, 09:44:20 PM
Think that's spot on Monty.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on April 23, 2019, 09:50:26 PM
Quote from: Monty on April 23, 2019, 09:39:00 PM
Don't know if this is even a slightly reasonable thing to say, but my instinct is that he's actually not getting enough credit. For years we've had managers whose man-management was good but tactics bad (MON) or the reverse (Garde), not to mention plenty who seemed fucking miserable at both. He seems the first to combine both elements and it's producing the most likeable Villa team in ages.

Spot on.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VILLA MOLE on April 23, 2019, 09:54:42 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on April 23, 2019, 09:50:26 PM
Quote from: Monty on April 23, 2019, 09:39:00 PM
Don't know if this is even a slightly reasonable thing to say, but my instinct is that he's actually not getting enough credit. For years we've had managers whose man-management was good but tactics bad (MON) or the reverse (Garde), not to mention plenty who seemed fucking miserable at both. He seems the first to combine both elements and it's producing the most likeable Villa team in ages.

Spot on.


I also think moving forward he will employ young gems for the future , exciting times
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on April 23, 2019, 10:04:14 PM
It's just nice to see them organised and competing for every ball.  We are still a bit weak in a couple of areas, although they are working hard for each other, to cover some of those gaps.  I honestly think that we will go up as Champions next season if we fail in the play offs. 

By weaknesses, subjective I know, but I mean left back (unless Hause is playing), right wing (Green needs work and Albert needs erm, a rocket) and central midfield (although Whelan has been really good just recently).
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KRS on April 25, 2019, 02:45:51 PM
A subtle side swipe in his press conference today mentioning how he had to field 3 right backs in defence during December. Well played Dean!

Edit: it’s painful looking back at those starting lineups with a back four of Hutton, Elmo, Bree and an injured Chester.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brend'Watkins on April 25, 2019, 03:14:28 PM
Monty, you are absolutely right.  Had it been any of the media favourites who had landed the job you just know that this would be the outcome...

John Terry's/Frank Lampard's/Thierry Henry's/ Aston Villa win 10 in a row
It would have been all about them 

It's all hypothetical anyway, because none of them would have got anywhere near emulating what Dean has achieved, but I think you get my drift.  The only time they will sing his praise is when they start touting him as the next boss of someone like Leicester. I think Villa fans on the whole are overjoyed with what he's done for us.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The_ads on April 25, 2019, 06:32:23 PM
We had some short sighted people on here calling for a Smith out thread when he’d lost his best player and cabbage bollocks had stitched up us up with no defenders until Smith signed Hause and Mings. Hope he’s our manager for an extremely long time
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cheltenhamlion on April 25, 2019, 06:47:50 PM
Quote from: The Edge on April 23, 2019, 05:29:35 PM
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on April 23, 2019, 09:09:23 AM
Cheers, Dean, you beautiful, beautiful man. Since landing here yesterday at Haven Hafan y Môr I've seen more Villa shirts than those of any other single club.
I was in Burnham at the weekend. Same there. Villa shorts everywhere. Dean Smith has made us proud to show our colours again.

How odd. I own a van at Burnham and was there for part of last weekend. Am going to Hafan y Mor next month in a van swap owners arrangement thing.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on April 25, 2019, 08:37:58 PM
Let’s see how he reacts to his next bad run of games which we all hope won’t happen but if it does it will be as a PL club. But it will happen. He’s done brilliantly to bounce back but there is no doubt it happened with Jack returning. So while heaping praise on is fine it’s also important to point out the catalyst to the recent run. But he’s learning all the time and he’s improving.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: BoVillan esq on April 25, 2019, 09:07:45 PM
Deano has achieved the playoffs, if he gets us through that and we get promoted back into the the big time, the Premiership, Dean Smith will become one of the hottest properties in football overnight, there will be a good few Premiership sides who aspired to do better this season and ended up mid-table or worse, they will be looking to the likes of Smith to turn things around, lucky for us he's a Villa fan but he needs to be backed big time.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on April 25, 2019, 09:40:31 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on April 25, 2019, 08:37:58 PM
Let’s see how he reacts to his next bad run of games which we all hope won’t happen but if it does it will be as a PL club. But it will happen. He’s done brilliantly to bounce back but there is no doubt it happened with Jack returning. So while heaping praise on is fine it’s also important to point out the catalyst to the recent run. But he’s learning all the time and he’s improving.

I think he's probably more aware of that than anyone. I can see tweak of the system on the horizon so that we're not so reliant on JG, or indeed wingers who blow hot and cold. It needs to happen anyway as Grealish will be gone at some point and, if we're promoted, he won't make the difference to us that he does in the second division.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TelfordVilla on April 25, 2019, 09:54:04 PM
Having finally got the right man in, it is up to the club and the fans and the social media keyboard warriors to stick with Deano when the tough times come. He is an excellent head coach and  the right man for the Villa job for decades. When results turn against us it will not be because Deano has become a 'bad manager' and we can be sure that he will be doing all he can to turn it around again. Even if relegation rears its ugly head we should stick with our man as he will rebuild and bring us back stronger again.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on April 25, 2019, 09:56:14 PM
Quote from: TelfordVilla on April 25, 2019, 09:54:04 PM
Having finally got the right man in, it is up to the club and the fans and the social media keyboard warriors to stick with Deano when the tough times come. He is an excellent head coach and  the right man for the Villa job for decades. When results turn against us it will not be because Deano has become a 'bad manager' and we can be sure that he will be doing all he can to turn it around again. Even if relegation rears its ugly head we should stick with our man as he will rebuild and bring us back stronger again.

Whilst I'm tempted to agree with you (not least as a fellow Telford victim!), there's fuck all chance of that happening if we look like being relegated.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TelfordVilla on April 25, 2019, 10:14:54 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on April 25, 2019, 09:56:14 PM
Quote from: TelfordVilla on April 25, 2019, 09:54:04 PM
Having finally got the right man in, it is up to the club and the fans and the social media keyboard warriors to stick with Deano when the tough times come. He is an excellent head coach and  the right man for the Villa job for decades. When results turn against us it will not be because Deano has become a 'bad manager' and we can be sure that he will be doing all he can to turn it around again. Even if relegation rears its ugly head we should stick with our man as he will rebuild and bring us back stronger again.

Whilst I'm tempted to agree with you (not least as a fellow Telford victim!), there's fuck all chance of that happening if we look like being relegated.
Sadly, I know you are right but if/when that day comes it will be hard to find a better and more suitable head coach. It will be the fault of the players or injuries or other things out of the managers control.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: robbo1874 on April 26, 2019, 04:50:40 AM
Quote from: Newby on April 23, 2019, 10:04:14 PM
It's just nice to see them organised and competing for every ball.  We are still a bit weak in a couple of areas, although they are working hard for each other, to cover some of those gaps.  I honestly think that we will go up as Champions next season if we fail in the play offs. 

By weaknesses, subjective I know, but I mean left back (unless Hause is playing), right wing (Green needs work and Albert needs erm, a rocket) and central midfield (although Whelan has been really good just recently).
trying not to think about staying down next season. I doubt we’d necessarily win the championship next season, as I think we’d need a significant re-build after losing probably Grealish, McGinn, Abraham, Hause, Ming’s. the first two could get in most premier league squads. The last 3 probably mid-table premier clubs on the last couple of months’ showing.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on April 26, 2019, 08:30:11 AM
Respectfully robbo I think Dean Smith has delivered us to a win win situation.  I want us to return to the Premiership this season very much but the prospect of another season with Dean Smith's Aston Villa in the Championship is not without its attractions.  Dean is the key not the individual players.  I am totally confident that with the financial backing he will get he can and will build an automatic promotion team.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: robbo1874 on April 26, 2019, 08:49:36 AM
Also respectfully Brian,

We need to get out of this tinpot league to unlock the finances required to properly undo the last 3 or 4 years of damage. I’d love to see us stroll up as champions, but if we don’t go up, the side won’t be the same
Next season, but as you say the manager likely would be. I’d take the shredded nerves of a 15-13 penalty shootout win if it meant we go up this season. Honestly would.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on April 26, 2019, 08:58:53 AM
Quote from: brian green on April 26, 2019, 08:30:11 AM
Respectfully robbo I think Dean Smith has delivered us to a win win situation.  I want us to return to the Premiership this season very much but the prospect of another season with Dean Smith's Aston Villa in the Championship is not without its attractions.  Dean is the key not the individual players.  I am totally confident that with the financial backing he will get he can and will build an automatic promotion team.

I'd agree with this.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nev on April 26, 2019, 09:02:19 AM
Quote from: brian green on April 26, 2019, 08:30:11 AM
Respectfully robbo I think Dean Smith has delivered us to a win win situation.  I want us to return to the Premiership this season very much but the prospect of another season with Dean Smith's Aston Villa in the Championship is not without its attractions.  Dean is the key not the individual players.  I am totally confident that with the financial backing he will get he can and will build an automatic promotion team.

Before the final last year I said that while I wouldn't be devastated not to go up I wasn't sure I'd feel the same after a 3rd season in the Championship but with Dean in charge I've revised my opinion. Yes, I want to prosper but this league is so absorbing and entertaining it's a half decent consolation for failing to go up but only with the caveat that we take our part playing positive, entertaining football. Dean gives us that and I would go into a fourth season with renewed optimism regardless of who departed. The Championship is more of an even competition that the PL, Norwich leading the way has proved that.

Having said all that, and taking into account my personal patience, ultimately I believe we should always be dining at the top table of football.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on April 26, 2019, 10:12:32 AM
Whilst I've not hated the Championship as much as I thought I would, I would like to see us get back up now. I suppose another season down here would give Smith chance to further cement his football philosophy and hopefully make us stronger but then there's no guarantee that the likes of McGinn, Grealish or Mings would still be around to help us.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Monty on April 26, 2019, 10:19:38 AM
We have to remember as well that he hasn't had a pre-season, which is crucial for a coach like him in training the players to play how he wants them to. Our reliance on individuals (to some, though much less, extent) is part of the post-Bruce hangover and you don't just get rid of that in a few months.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: old man villa fan on April 26, 2019, 10:30:23 AM
If we do not get promoted, there will be a big movement of players, both some we would prefer to keep and some dead wood. What we will end up with will be a better balanced squad and trained from day 1 to play progressive football. That should put us in a better position to achieve automatic promotion.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on April 26, 2019, 10:34:27 AM
Quote from: TelfordVilla on April 25, 2019, 10:14:54 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on April 25, 2019, 09:56:14 PM
Quote from: TelfordVilla on April 25, 2019, 09:54:04 PM
Having finally got the right man in, it is up to the club and the fans and the social media keyboard warriors to stick with Deano when the tough times come. He is an excellent head coach and  the right man for the Villa job for decades. When results turn against us it will not be because Deano has become a 'bad manager' and we can be sure that he will be doing all he can to turn it around again. Even if relegation rears its ugly head we should stick with our man as he will rebuild and bring us back stronger again.

Whilst I'm tempted to agree with you (not least as a fellow Telford victim!), there's fuck all chance of that happening if we look like being relegated.
Sadly, I know you are right but if/when that day comes it will be hard to find a better and more suitable head coach. It will be the fault of the players or injuries or other things out of the managers control.

He's doing a fantastic job at the moment - far better than i could have ever hoped -  but suggesting he'll be a great Villa manager for decades, that he's irreplaceable and infallible is ridiculous. I love him, I loved Saunders, Taylor, Big Ron, Sir Brian and even O'Neill when he joined us, but like just about every other manager in the world, Smith is only a handful of defeats from the sack or a decent season away from being snapped up by a "bigger" club. That's the way it works - and I'm sure he's realistic enough to know that

 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on April 26, 2019, 11:05:15 AM
Quote from: Chico Hamilton III on April 26, 2019, 10:34:27 AM
Quote from: TelfordVilla on April 25, 2019, 10:14:54 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on April 25, 2019, 09:56:14 PM
Quote from: TelfordVilla on April 25, 2019, 09:54:04 PM
Having finally got the right man in, it is up to the club and the fans and the social media keyboard warriors to stick with Deano when the tough times come. He is an excellent head coach and  the right man for the Villa job for decades. When results turn against us it will not be because Deano has become a 'bad manager' and we can be sure that he will be doing all he can to turn it around again. Even if relegation rears its ugly head we should stick with our man as he will rebuild and bring us back stronger again.

Whilst I'm tempted to agree with you (not least as a fellow Telford victim!), there's fuck all chance of that happening if we look like being relegated.
Sadly, I know you are right but if/when that day comes it will be hard to find a better and more suitable head coach. It will be the fault of the players or injuries or other things out of the managers control.

He's doing a fantastic job at the moment - far better than i could have ever hoped -  but suggesting he'll be a great Villa manager for decades, that he's irreplaceable and infallible is ridiculous. I love him, I loved Saunders, Taylor, Big Ron, Sir Brian and even O'Neill when he joined us, but like just about every other manager in the world, Smith is only a handful of defeats from the sack or a decent season away from being snapped up by a "bigger" club. That's the way it works - and I'm sure he's realistic enough to know that

You're not wrong on the reality of how things work in modern football, but he is light years away from the likes of O'Neill in terms of his philosophy, style of play, approach to man management and coaching, his attitude towards the fans, public dealings etc. For all of these reasons and more, I don't think we've a hope of finding better than him for the next few years, not from the pool of managers we could attract at least. I'd be absolutely gutted if he were to leave and I hope he's with us for many years to come, in spite of the inevitable rocky periods we'll have - either transitioning to the PL, or transitioning a new squad next year if/when the likes of Grealish etc. are sold.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on April 26, 2019, 11:22:48 AM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on April 26, 2019, 11:05:15 AM

You're not wrong on the reality of how things work in modern football, but he is light years away from the likes of O'Neill in terms of his philosophy, style of play, approach to man management and coaching, his attitude towards the fans, public dealings etc.

We can say that now about O'Neill, but who was saying that when he first joined us? - the welcome he got at the Emirates for his first game was up there with Big Ron's first game in charge for us at Hillsborough - fantastic. He went on a 9-game unbeaten run (twice) in the first season and there were plenty of fans who were convinced he would be the right man for us for a long time. And the fans loved him for standing up to Benitez over the Barry affair. It all changed, of course, but let's not pretend that similar things weren't said at the time about O'Neill that some are saying now about Smith. I'm perfectly happy to live in the moment but bitter experience has taught me to be a cautious, miserable old cock in terms of looking further forward
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on April 26, 2019, 11:39:06 AM
I hope we go up and if we don't go up I hope we keep hold of our best players. But if we fail to go up and then lose players at least in Smith we have a manager who has handled that situation well with Brentford in the past.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on April 26, 2019, 11:45:23 AM
Quote from: KRS on April 25, 2019, 02:45:51 PM
A subtle side swipe in his press conference today mentioning how he had to field 3 right backs in defence during December. Well played Dean!

Edit: it’s painful looking back at those starting lineups with a back four of Hutton, Elmo, Bree and an injured Chester.

Interesting too that we've been using Elmo still, brought Taylor back in from the cold (and let's face it most people had written him off as useless)  and have Tuanzebe, zebe, zebe, zebe, Mings and even, Jedinak playing there and us doing better than ever.

The coaching is clearly at another level when players are doing well that we'd previously lambasted as not being good enough. Those players have had good coaching and support and confidence is up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nev on April 26, 2019, 01:26:54 PM
Jedinak was a horror show under Bruce because of our inability to hold onto the ball, now, with the better coaching he is put under less pressure and makes fewer mistakes. He is still a stopgap, but Bruce appeared to consider that he was a first choice CB.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tomd2103 on April 26, 2019, 02:30:43 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on April 26, 2019, 11:05:15 AM
Quote from: Chico Hamilton III on April 26, 2019, 10:34:27 AM
Quote from: TelfordVilla on April 25, 2019, 10:14:54 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on April 25, 2019, 09:56:14 PM
Quote from: TelfordVilla on April 25, 2019, 09:54:04 PM
Having finally got the right man in, it is up to the club and the fans and the social media keyboard warriors to stick with Deano when the tough times come. He is an excellent head coach and  the right man for the Villa job for decades. When results turn against us it will not be because Deano has become a 'bad manager' and we can be sure that he will be doing all he can to turn it around again. Even if relegation rears its ugly head we should stick with our man as he will rebuild and bring us back stronger again.

Whilst I'm tempted to agree with you (not least as a fellow Telford victim!), there's fuck all chance of that happening if we look like being relegated.
Sadly, I know you are right but if/when that day comes it will be hard to find a better and more suitable head coach. It will be the fault of the players or injuries or other things out of the managers control.

He's doing a fantastic job at the moment - far better than i could have ever hoped -  but suggesting he'll be a great Villa manager for decades, that he's irreplaceable and infallible is ridiculous. I love him, I loved Saunders, Taylor, Big Ron, Sir Brian and even O'Neill when he joined us, but like just about every other manager in the world, Smith is only a handful of defeats from the sack or a decent season away from being snapped up by a "bigger" club. That's the way it works - and I'm sure he's realistic enough to know that

You're not wrong on the reality of how things work in modern football, but he is light years away from the likes of O'Neill in terms of his philosophy, style of play, approach to man management and coaching, his attitude towards the fans, public dealings etc. For all of these reasons and more, I don't think we've a hope of finding better than him for the next few years, not from the pool of managers we could attract at least. I'd be absolutely gutted if he were to leave and I hope he's with us for many years to come, in spite of the inevitable rocky periods we'll have - either transitioning to the PL, or transitioning a new squad next year if/when the likes of Grealish etc. are sold.

He is still a relatively young and inexperienced manager at this point.  From bits I have seen and heard about him here and there, he does seem the sort who is keen to learn and develop and I think he is in an ideal role to do that. 

I feel the club as a whole is getting a bit of real momentum now and we really could do with going up this season.  It would be a big test for Dean Smith in the Premier League, but would be an ideal opportunity for him.       
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Bad English on April 26, 2019, 02:53:45 PM
Quote from: Monty on April 26, 2019, 10:19:38 AM
We have to remember as well that he hasn't had a pre-season,
HOUSE!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on April 26, 2019, 03:29:25 PM
Quote from: Chico Hamilton III on April 26, 2019, 11:22:48 AM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on April 26, 2019, 11:05:15 AM

You're not wrong on the reality of how things work in modern football, but he is light years away from the likes of O'Neill in terms of his philosophy, style of play, approach to man management and coaching, his attitude towards the fans, public dealings etc.

We can say that now about O'Neill, but who was saying that when he first joined us? - the welcome he got at the Emirates for his first game was up there with Big Ron's first game in charge for us at Hillsborough - fantastic. He went on a 9-game unbeaten run (twice) in the first season and there were plenty of fans who were convinced he would be the right man for us for a long time. And the fans loved him for standing up to Benitez over the Barry affair. It all changed, of course, but let's not pretend that similar things weren't said at the time about O'Neill that some are saying now about Smith. I'm perfectly happy to live in the moment but bitter experience has taught me to be a cautious, miserable old cock in terms of looking further forward

I would never take that away from you! ;)

You're right that there's an element of hindsight to that assessment, but it doesn't change the fact of it. Of course there's every chance that things can go sour with any manager, Deano included, but I think there's a marked difference in the way he talks about football to the way O'Neill has ever talked about it. You could argue that MON is just a more guarded person in general, but I'd be willing to venture that Smith understands the game in a more intelligent and strategic way to O'Neill (or many of our former managers, for that matter). Of course I wasn't saying that when MON first took over - I'd never heard of Dean Smith in 2006!!!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: nigel on April 26, 2019, 08:33:42 PM
Quote from: Chico Hamilton III on April 26, 2019, 10:34:27 AM
Quote from: TelfordVilla on April 25, 2019, 10:14:54 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on April 25, 2019, 09:56:14 PM
Quote from: TelfordVilla on April 25, 2019, 09:54:04 PM
Having finally got the right man in, it is up to the club and the fans and the social media keyboard warriors to stick with Deano when the tough times come. He is an excellent head coach and  the right man for the Villa job for decades. When results turn against us it will not be because Deano has become a 'bad manager' and we can be sure that he will be doing all he can to turn it around again. Even if relegation rears its ugly head we should stick with our man as he will rebuild and bring us back stronger again.

Whilst I'm tempted to agree with you (not least as a fellow Telford victim!), there's fuck all chance of that happening if we look like being relegated.
Sadly, I know you are right but if/when that day comes it will be hard to find a better and more suitable head coach. It will be the fault of the players or injuries or other things out of the managers control.

He's doing a fantastic job at the moment - far better than i could have ever hoped -  but suggesting he'll be a great Villa manager for decades, that he's irreplaceable and infallible is ridiculous. I love him, I loved Saunders, Taylor, Big Ron, Sir Brian and even O'Neill when he joined us, but like just about every other manager in the world, Smith is only a handful of defeats from the sack or a decent season away from being snapped up by a "bigger" club. That's the way it works - and I'm sure he's realistic enough to know that

 


 
The difference between Dean and others was clear to see at his initial press conference.  He was bursting with pride, you could tell in his voice what this job meant.
Dean is one of us. This is probably the job he has always coveted.
Yes, it might go tits up and he gets the boot, but, I don't think other clubs will find it as easy to tempt him away if he does really well
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on April 26, 2019, 08:49:53 PM
I agree with what  Chico Hamilton III said but after we win the Champions League and he moves to Madrid I will be devastated.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT on April 27, 2019, 08:28:55 AM
The article on Dean in The Times is just brilliant.

We're in such good hands.

So sad to read about his Dad though, I didnt realise he had dementia and doesn't even know his lad is the Villa manager.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on April 27, 2019, 08:59:39 AM
Looks like he's featuring on Football Focus today.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villabear on April 27, 2019, 09:23:29 AM
Quote from: CT on April 27, 2019, 08:28:55 AM
The article on Dean in The Times is just brilliant.

We're in such good hands.

So sad to read about his Dad though, I didnt realise he had dementia and doesn't even know his lad is the Villa manager.

Here’s the article. As CT says very sad about his Dad but it comes across how much he loves our club.

FOOTBALL | DEAN SMITH INTERVIEW
Dean Smith: Dad’s dementia means he does not know I’m Villa manager
The 48-year-old is on the verge of bringing the glory days back to a club that runs deep in his family, writes Henry Winter.

Two or three times a week, Dean Smith goes into the coaches’ dressing room at Bodymoor Heath, removes his Aston Villa top and shorts, slips into his civvies and drives off to see his father Ron. He sits with his dad, and thinks of the days when Ron would take him and his brother on to the Holte End, instilling in his sons a deep love for Villa.

Smith, 48, thinks of the times when his father told him that he couldn’t go to the 1982 European Cup final because of fears of crowd trouble in Rotterdam. The 11-year-old still managed to get on the open-top bus with Des Bremner, Gary Shaw, Peter Withe and the rest of the victorious players as they paraded through Birmingham. He thinks of his father’s passion for Villa, where he worked as a steward.

These visits are particularly poignant as he can’t take his father back down memory lane or share the joy of Villa’s current vibrant form, their run of ten league wins on the spin breaking a 109-year-old club record and propelling them into the Sky Bet Championship play-off positions.

“My dad has dementia,” Smith explains. “He’s been in a home the last three years. I went to see him yesterday. He doesn’t know who I am. Unfortunately, he doesn’t know I’m Villa manager.”

Smith sensed the fog seeping into his father’s mind when briefly staying at his parents’ Birmingham home while house-hunting in 2009. “I took him to the pub one night, we had a pint, and I asked him ‘do you want another one?’ ‘Yes,’ he said, ‘I’m just going to the toilet’.” When Smith returned from the bar, his father wasn’t there. He’d disappeared. “When he got home, I said, ‘Dad, you left me in the pub.’ That’s when I realised something’s not right. So I talked mum into getting him an appointment. It was the early signs of dementia

If the fog could, miraculously, lift momentarily, what would his father think seeing that his son was now Villa manager? “Dad would be amazed,” Smith smiles. “And very proud. My dad’s dad was a Villa fan. My dad was brought up in Aston, he was a toolmaker, worked in a factory all his life. He was a steward at Villa, loved the club.”

Sitting in his office at Bodymoor Heath, Villa’s training ground, Smith recalls travelling away with his father. “He failed his test and said, ‘I’m never driving again’ so mum drove. I remember her driving me, my brother and my cousins to watch Villa at Bristol City in a yellow Vauxhall Viva. Dad was the best passenger-driver I’ve ever seen, ‘No! You’ve gone the wrong way!’”

In 1982, Smith’s father headed off to Rotterdam for the European Cup final against Bayern Munich, which Villa won 1-0. “Dad wouldn’t let me go. There was trouble in the Anderlecht game [in the semi-final] so I watched the game at home.”

Pat Heard, the Villa full back who was on the bench in Rotterdam, lived opposite, so his children were brought over. “Myself and my brother used to baby-sit his kids, so we became very friendly with them. We all had the shirt on, the colours. Jimmy Rimmer coming off after nine minutes (injured). Oh my life. What’s going on? Nigel Spink coming on, pulling off save after save. An incredible time for the football club.

“When they had the open-bus parade through Birmingham, I was there with my mates, Pat saw me, and got me on the bus. I was 11. I was on the lower deck. Didn’t get upstairs!”

Villa’s players were allowed to take the trophy home for a day each. “Pat had the European Cup for a night,” Smith laughs. “He actually slept with the European Cup, him and his missus. He told us, ‘I daren’t leave it downstairs. I was scared to death to leave it downstairs.’ We all went over to his house. We had a local pub called the Red Admiral and he took it [the cup] in there. Unbelievable times.

“I actually got to know a few of the players. I even played with Gary Shaw and Des Bremner at Walsall [in 1990]. Unbelievable. I’d grown up watching them. I was not good enough to play for Villa.” Smith still enjoyed a good career outside the elite, 674 games as a reliable defender and frequent captain for Walsall, Hereford United, Leyton Orient, Sheffield Wednesday and Port Vale.

Management always appealed, having long been into strategy. “I was an avid chess player, played for the school chess team, we became West Midlands school champions. Write the move down, put on the timer.” Smith rattles off his chess inspirations. “Garry Kasparov. (Anatoly) Karpov. Bobby Fischer. Boris Spassky.”

His coaching career began at Orient in 2005, first with the youth team then as assistant to Martin Ling. Smith understood the pressure on managers but never realised what Ling was enduring. “Martin was my best friend. I knew he was highly stressed with the job, but never knew he had serious depression. His wife didn’t know, his kids didn’t, he kept it hidden from all of us.

“It was a big shock to see with somebody as social and outgoing as he was. To this day, he believes it was down to alcohol. He regularly attends AA meetings and has been off the drink ever since. I try not to drink at home. I used to drink as a player more than I do now.”

Smith kept returning to Villa Park for matches. “Kevin MacDonald, who is [under] 23s coach here, were playing together at Walsall, and we stood in the Holte End together when we played Liverpool and Ronny Rosenthal missed the open goal [in 1992]. I’ve always gone along to Villa games whenever I could.” When out in North Carolina last May, visiting his son who is on a soccer scholarship there, Smith found a stream on his iPad to watch Villa’s play-off final defeat by Fulham.

When Steve Bruce was dismissed last October, news that Smith’s name was in the frame for the Villa job spread far and wide, even to his Villa-mad cousin in Philadelphia. “When he heard I’d been linked with the job, he said, ‘You’ve got to take it, it’s VILLA’.”

Smith had built his name as a good man-manager and respected operator on a shoestring by keeping Walsall in League One, and then keeping Brentford competitive in the Championship, but for some he represented a gamble by Villa. “I don’t think so. I felt I earned the seat. I’d managed 405 games. I was really enjoying Brentford. I loved working for Matthew [Benham, the owner], I still go out for a meal with him now. It was a tough decision but the right decision.”

He called a family confab, including his son on Facetime from the States. “I wanted it to be a family decision. They are all Villa fans. My daughter’s still at school locally and if we had a bad run of results, I didn’t want it to affect her. I was quite confident she would handle it. She is quite a mature young lady. The most important thing in my life is my family. I need to be a good husband and father.

“But I knew the pressure of it. It is more than a job. I understand the Villa fans. I am one of them. After the game if we’ve not played well, I will tell it as it is, but I don’t take football home. My phone’s on silent, I might have a look and ‘ok, deal with that tomorrow’.

“My wife copes very well. She’s quite an emotional character, so she can get high and low, but she can see when it does affect me. She handles the pressure really well, probably better than when our son left for America.”

He detaches himself from the emotion of match-day, only once permitting himself to stand in the dug-out thinking like a fan. “We were beating Birmingham at home, 4-2, last minutes all the crowd were singing, and I had a little look around and thought ‘this is incredible’.”

The buzz around Bodymoor Heath is inescapable. A smiling Jack Grealish stops for a chat, looking incredibly lean, the result of staying later after training, working out. John Terry, Smith’s assistant, strides up, clearly enjoying working under such an engaging, responsibility-sharing manager as Smith, and loving the momentum of a big club on the move.

“I don’t think there’s a better sight or sound than the Holte End in full voice,” Smith continues. “We’ve had six or seven sell-outs. the support’s been tremendous. I have a box at the game for ten and have to get an extra ten tickets such is the demand. It makes me proud. I love the fact when they tell me it’s sold out.

“People are coming up, shaking my hand, and saying thank you for giving us Villa back. I say, Villa has never gone. I have so much respect for Steve Bruce, he was one game from taking them back to the Premier League, and people should never forget that, or all the (financial) troubles that happened in the summer. The club could have gone under. I am hopeful with the new owners (Nassef Sawiris and Wes Edens) who are really keen and eager to take Villa back to where it was, that we can turn it around.

“Villa’s a special club. It’s a community club, a family club. I did a talk when we weren’t having our best time, and 500 fans turned up. I spoke to Sir Alex Ferguson about Villa. He said he nearly came here as a player as a 16-year-old. He said it’s a special club, because it was brought about by Scotsmen.” The statue of the Perthshire-born William McGregor, the club’s earliest driving force, stands proudly near the players’ entrance at Villa Park.

“It’s a tragedy it has not won the FA Cup since 1957 but to be one of the clubs who have won the European Cup is special,” Smith says. “The success has been too long ago. It has been a struggle economically (locally), and the football clubs have struggled along with it. There was a time when no Midlands teams were in the Premier League. Wolves have done brilliantly. Got the finances now, the backing, recruited really good players and a good coach [Nuno Espírito Santo] and got them there.

“This is a Premier League club playing in the Championship. There is a hunger about the players. They are coachable, whether 35-year-old Glenn Whelan or 34-year-old Mile Jedinak. They have all been open to new ideas.”

A particular masterstroke has been making Grealish captain. “I have a lot of leaders. I could have given anyone the armband. James Chester has had it, so have Alan Hutton and Glenn Whelan. I thought it would help Jack’s game. He has the respect of the dressing room. I knew he would embrace it, cherish it. Jack loves the football club.

“Not many clubs have fans as manager and captain. We do. At Sheffield United, Chris Wilder is a fan, and the captain [Billy Sharp] is a fan. It sends a message. People know what it means to us.”

In the race for automatic promotion, Wilder’s men have overtaken Marcelo Bielsa’s stuttering Leeds United, whom Villa face tomorrow, and could possibly take on in the play-off final at Wembley on May 27. “Marcelo Bielsa is quite unique to what we’ve seen before,” Smith says. “He’s a bit different in the way he plays, what he asks his players to do. He’s very demanding of his players. I don’t think an English coach could get that out of the players. (Bielsa saying) ‘You will go man for man, and run.’ It is gospel for them. ‘This is what I believe in, this is what you are going to do.’ It is going to be tough on Sunday.”

Smith’s team are up for the challenge. His father would be proud.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on April 27, 2019, 09:48:29 AM
Brilliant. Thanks for posting it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KRS on April 27, 2019, 10:00:00 AM
Excellent. Hope he brings our club success for many, many, many years to come.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: BC Villain on April 27, 2019, 10:15:55 AM
Very moving read.  Anyone whose family have been touched by this cruel disease will know that the hardest part is seeing someone you care for slowly disappear before your eyes. The Smith family should all be very proud of Dean.  Not just an excellent head coach, but an excellent human being as well.  Reminds me a lot of Sir Graham.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: exigo on April 27, 2019, 10:18:58 AM
Thanks for posting that Villabear. Dementia killed my dad over 20 years ago, and I still well up at the first rendition of Holte Enders in the sky every other week.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: FrankyH on April 27, 2019, 10:23:55 AM
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on April 27, 2019, 08:59:39 AM
Looks like he's featuring on Football Focus today.

Yes.Should be worth a watch...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/football/48073419
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave shelley on April 27, 2019, 10:28:24 AM
A great read, thank you for posting it for us.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: andyh on April 27, 2019, 11:20:40 AM
A lovely read and quite moving.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on April 27, 2019, 11:49:02 AM
It's a bitter and sweet world at times. If his dad was not suffering from this cruel disease of course he would be immensely proud but probably outwardly tell him  "Dean it's just a job get on with it" ? As is the dad's way.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on April 27, 2019, 11:51:02 AM
Thanks for posting that article. What a superb insight into Deanos background. He's living the dream and we are privelidged to have him. Maybe im being over sentimental but i really think we're on the cusp of something special for our fantastic football club. I'd love him to be able to visit his dad and plonk a trophy on the table with claret and blue ribbons on and say "look what i've done dad" Who knows if it would register with him but it would be a wonderful moment for Dean and his family.   Long live the Villa.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: JD on April 28, 2019, 04:37:29 AM
Thanks for posting that Villabear, it's a great article.
The more I see and read about Dean Smith, the more I think that it is so good that he is Villa's Manager/Coach.
 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: amfy on April 28, 2019, 06:34:16 AM
I wonder if Sporting Memories could be involved with Dean’s dad?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: danno on April 28, 2019, 09:40:27 PM
Dean Smith reminds me of Sir Brian, there's a quiet authority to him if that makes sense?

I look at the incident today and his post match reaction to the sending off and contrast it with how Mourinho Taggart Warnock would probably have handled it.

I can't imagine anybody but Sir Brian being calm enough/polite to suggest the goal being given back. Not just that but trying his best to move on and defuse/play down the whole thing after the match too.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lizz on April 28, 2019, 09:54:34 PM
Great article. Like the fact he likes chess.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy65 on April 28, 2019, 09:58:39 PM
Quote from: danno on April 28, 2019, 09:40:27 PM
Dean Smith reminds me of Sir Brian, there's a quiet authority to him if that makes sense?

I look at the incident today and his post match reaction to the sending off and contrast it with how Mourinho Taggart Warnock would probably have handled it.

I can't imagine anybody but Sir Brian being calm enough/polite to suggest the goal being given back. Not just that but trying his best to move on and defuse/play down the whole thing after the match too.

I was thinking similar to Bobby Robson as well. Old school, in a positive way and v much the gentlemen, with a touch of steel about him as well.  A great combination
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: purpletrousers on April 28, 2019, 11:53:04 PM
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on April 27, 2019, 08:59:39 AM
Looks like he's featuring on Football Focus today.
For the UK
Football Focus, 27/04/2019: www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m0004pqj via @bbciplayer

45.30-49.20
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dominic22 on April 29, 2019, 09:25:01 PM
Not sure if this link is correct but there is a great video of an interview with Dean Smith's mom

https://twitter.com/villareport/status/1122914810168057856?s=09&fbclid=IwAR0wpzIL4Ax7Zh8ttNme1hTgzYxR85_AUmJCZQW8M_WLWfqzrMBG6_p71yM
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brend'Watkins on April 29, 2019, 09:29:01 PM
Seen that earlier, brilliant isn’t it?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on April 29, 2019, 10:09:07 PM
A down to earth Brummie, salt of the earth. All hail Deano' s mum.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: andyh on April 29, 2019, 10:20:07 PM
She’s got about 40 thousand kids now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KRS on April 30, 2019, 12:00:43 AM
She's the "manager of Dean Smith"...excellent! :D
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdward on April 30, 2019, 12:12:07 AM
Brilliant, Deans mom, just popping up the Scott Arms shops getting a few bits.

She's one of our own.....
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Scratchins on April 30, 2019, 08:16:57 AM
Quote from: cdward on April 30, 2019, 12:12:07 AM
Brilliant, Deans mom, just popping up the Scott Arms shops getting a few bits.

She's one of our own.....

That would make a good chant.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: XXVilla on April 30, 2019, 08:35:53 AM
I think families should be left out of football chants full stop
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave shelley on April 30, 2019, 09:31:42 AM
Quote from: XXVilla on April 30, 2019, 08:35:53 AM
I think families should be left out of football chants full stop

I'm inclined to agree but, it would make a bloody good chant.  Brought back a lot of memories looking at that clip.  Our first house was off Booths Farm Road a few hundred yards to the right as we look and our second was about a mile to the back of where she stood and our kids went to school at the Scott Arms (not the pub).
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rodders on April 30, 2019, 11:27:18 AM
Absolutely love Deano's "mumager" (if you'll pardon the elision.)

Lame to fame... Our house was owned by three generations of the Great Barr Scotts. Lady Mahlah Scott had the tiny parish church restored and they lie buried in our churchyard.

May go and decorate their memorials with claret and blue flowers when we're promoted!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dave P on April 30, 2019, 12:16:03 PM
Quote from: Newby on April 29, 2019, 10:09:07 PM
A down to earth Brummie, salt of the earth. All hail Deano' s mum.

Unlike you as you would know it's 'Mom' ;)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: robbo1874 on April 30, 2019, 12:41:24 PM
Quote from: Chico Hamilton III on April 26, 2019, 11:22:48 AM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on April 26, 2019, 11:05:15 AM

You're not wrong on the reality of how things work in modern football, but he is light years away from the likes of O'Neill in terms of his philosophy, style of play, approach to man management and coaching, his attitude towards the fans, public dealings etc.

We can say that now about O'Neill, but who was saying that when he first joined us? - the welcome he got at the Emirates for his first game was up there with Big Ron's first game in charge for us at Hillsborough - fantastic. He went on a 9-game unbeaten run (twice) in the first season and there were plenty of fans who were convinced he would be the right man for us for a long time. And the fans loved him for standing up to Benitez over the Barry affair. It all changed, of course, but let's not pretend that similar things weren't said at the time about O'Neill that some are saying now about Smith. I'm perfectly happy to live in the moment but bitter experience has taught me to be a cautious, miserable old cock in terms of looking further forward
i was convinced that  o’neill Plus randy’s Cash, would deliver success. I was wrong.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AV82EC on April 30, 2019, 12:59:51 PM
I think I posited on a thread a few days ago that O’Neill wasn’t the right choice and mea culpa didn’t include the words “in hindsight”, like pretty much everyone else I thought that MON plus Randys cash would be a winner, I was wrong.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mike on April 30, 2019, 01:15:49 PM
Yep, whoever would have thought O'Neill plus Randy would lead to disaster. If anyone thought it, they wouldn't have dared post it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: robbo1874 on April 30, 2019, 02:14:04 PM
Seems insane now when you look back at it. A club (hate to say business, in this circumstance), the size of Villa, minimal corporate checks and balances in place.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AV82EC on April 30, 2019, 02:17:53 PM
I think the corporate checks and balances were in place in general for the club under Randy, the whole Football side of the club was under one persons sole control, which is how he wanted it. Unfortunately the two sides didn’t seem to speak much and when Lerner wanted to make things more joined up, MON saw this as a threat to his power and decided to leave.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on April 30, 2019, 02:18:30 PM
Remember the deafening chorus of "USA, USA" from the Villa end at Arsenal. It was like being at the Ryder Cup or a Trump rally
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: robbo1874 on April 30, 2019, 02:34:07 PM
Quote from: Chico Hamilton III on April 30, 2019, 02:18:30 PM
Remember the deafening chorus of "USA, USA" from the Villa end at Arsenal. It was like being at the Ryder Cup or a Trump rally
was that the Barry header - first goal at the emirates game?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on April 30, 2019, 02:35:13 PM
Quote from: robbo1874 on April 30, 2019, 02:34:07 PM
Quote from: Chico Hamilton III on April 30, 2019, 02:18:30 PM
Remember the deafening chorus of "USA, USA" from the Villa end at Arsenal. It was like being at the Ryder Cup or a Trump rally
was that the Barry header - first goal at the emirates game?

Mellberg weren't it?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on April 30, 2019, 02:39:03 PM
Quote from: AV82EC on April 30, 2019, 02:17:53 PM
I think the corporate checks and balances were in place in general for the club under Randy, the whole Football side of the club was under one persons sole control, which is how he wanted it. Unfortunately the two sides didn’t seem to speak much and when Lerner wanted to make things more joined up, MON saw this as a threat to his power and decided to leave.

A very generous way of saying that O'Neill spent a wedge of Lerner's personal fortune getting Villa to the heady heights of 6th and 5th without any trophies or Champion's League money to show for it... and when Randy decided to start trying to recoup some of that money Martin threw all of this toys out of the pram. I'm not a Randy apologist and by all accounts he wasn't a terribly nice guy in the end, but I'll struggle to ever look back on MON's years as anything but failure on all fronts.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: johnc on April 30, 2019, 02:39:37 PM
Quote from: Chico Hamilton III on April 30, 2019, 02:35:13 PM
Quote from: robbo1874 on April 30, 2019, 02:34:07 PM
Quote from: Chico Hamilton III on April 30, 2019, 02:18:30 PM
Remember the deafening chorus of "USA, USA" from the Villa end at Arsenal. It was like being at the Ryder Cup or a Trump rally
was that the Barry header - first goal at the emirates game?


Mellberg weren't it?
Why didn't Barry head it?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AV82EC on April 30, 2019, 02:44:46 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on April 30, 2019, 02:39:03 PM
Quote from: AV82EC on April 30, 2019, 02:17:53 PM
I think the corporate checks and balances were in place in general for the club under Randy, the whole Football side of the club was under one persons sole control, which is how he wanted it. Unfortunately the two sides didn’t seem to speak much and when Lerner wanted to make things more joined up, MON saw this as a threat to his power and decided to leave.

A very generous way of saying that O'Neill spent a wedge of Lerner's personal fortune getting Villa to the heady heights of 6th and 5th without any trophies or Champion's League money to show for it... and when Randy decided to start trying to recoup some of that money Martin threw all of this toys out of the pram. I'm not a Randy apologist and by all accounts he wasn't a terribly nice guy in the end, but I'll struggle to ever look back on MON's years as anything but failure on all fronts.

I was trying to be generous as they both hold the blame for wasting a third of a billion quid and achieving the grand total of fuck all.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: robbo1874 on April 30, 2019, 02:48:13 PM
Quote from: johnc on April 30, 2019, 02:39:37 PM
Quote from: Chico Hamilton III on April 30, 2019, 02:35:13 PM
Quote from: robbo1874 on April 30, 2019, 02:34:07 PM
Quote from: Chico Hamilton III on April 30, 2019, 02:18:30 PM
Remember the deafening chorus of "USA, USA" from the Villa end at Arsenal. It was like being at the Ryder Cup or a Trump rally
was that the Barry header - first goal at the emirates game?
Why didn't Barry head it?

Mellberg weren't it?
could’ve been. Not the first or last time I’ll be wrong. Just remember it was a pretty decent header down the other end of the ground from the Villa fans in the corner.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on April 30, 2019, 04:16:26 PM
Quote from: AV82EC on April 30, 2019, 02:44:46 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on April 30, 2019, 02:39:03 PM
Quote from: AV82EC on April 30, 2019, 02:17:53 PM
I think the corporate checks and balances were in place in general for the club under Randy, the whole Football side of the club was under one persons sole control, which is how he wanted it. Unfortunately the two sides didn’t seem to speak much and when Lerner wanted to make things more joined up, MON saw this as a threat to his power and decided to leave.

A very generous way of saying that O'Neill spent a wedge of Lerner's personal fortune getting Villa to the heady heights of 6th and 5th without any trophies or Champion's League money to show for it... and when Randy decided to start trying to recoup some of that money Martin threw all of this toys out of the pram. I'm not a Randy apologist and by all accounts he wasn't a terribly nice guy in the end, but I'll struggle to ever look back on MON's years as anything but failure on all fronts.

I was trying to be generous as they both hold the blame for wasting a third of a billion quid and achieving the grand total of fuck all.

Agreed, and fair.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dave P on April 30, 2019, 04:46:05 PM
Quote from: johnc on April 30, 2019, 02:39:37 PM
Quote from: Chico Hamilton III on April 30, 2019, 02:35:13 PM
Quote from: robbo1874 on April 30, 2019, 02:34:07 PM
Quote from: Chico Hamilton III on April 30, 2019, 02:18:30 PM
Remember the deafening chorus of "USA, USA" from the Villa end at Arsenal. It was like being at the Ryder Cup or a Trump rally
was that the Barry header - first goal at the emirates game?


Mellberg weren't it?
Why didn't Barry head it?

Applause.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on April 30, 2019, 04:51:49 PM
Quote from: robbo1874 on April 30, 2019, 02:48:13 PM
Quote from: johnc on April 30, 2019, 02:39:37 PM
Quote from: Chico Hamilton III on April 30, 2019, 02:35:13 PM
Quote from: robbo1874 on April 30, 2019, 02:34:07 PM
Quote from: Chico Hamilton III on April 30, 2019, 02:18:30 PM
Remember the deafening chorus of "USA, USA" from the Villa end at Arsenal. It was like being at the Ryder Cup or a Trump rally
was that the Barry header - first goal at the emirates game?
Why didn't Barry head it?

Mellberg weren't it?
could’ve been. Not the first or last time I’ll be wrong. Just remember it was a pretty decent header down the other end of the ground from the Villa fans in the corner.
Twas Mellberg.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: maidstonevillain on April 30, 2019, 05:52:43 PM
Quote from: johnc on April 30, 2019, 02:39:37 PM
Quote from: Chico Hamilton III on April 30, 2019, 02:35:13 PM
Quote from: robbo1874 on April 30, 2019, 02:34:07 PM
Quote from: Chico Hamilton III on April 30, 2019, 02:18:30 PM
Remember the deafening chorus of "USA, USA" from the Villa end at Arsenal. It was like being at the Ryder Cup or a Trump rally
was that the Barry header - first goal at the emirates game?


Mellberg weren't it?
Why didn't Barry head it?
He was expecting to get a penalty.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Moose on April 30, 2019, 06:55:03 PM
It was in front of the Villa fans - I am on the video by the corner as the corner is taken!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on May 01, 2019, 12:13:39 AM
Quote from: AV82EC on April 30, 2019, 02:44:46 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on April 30, 2019, 02:39:03 PM
Quote from: AV82EC on April 30, 2019, 02:17:53 PM
I think the corporate checks and balances were in place in general for the club under Randy, the whole Football side of the club was under one persons sole control, which is how he wanted it. Unfortunately the two sides didn’t seem to speak much and when Lerner wanted to make things more joined up, MON saw this as a threat to his power and decided to leave.

A very generous way of saying that O'Neill spent a wedge of Lerner's personal fortune getting Villa to the heady heights of 6th and 5th without any trophies or Champion's League money to show for it... and when Randy decided to start trying to recoup some of that money Martin threw all of this toys out of the pram. I'm not a Randy apologist and by all accounts he wasn't a terribly nice guy in the end, but I'll struggle to ever look back on MON's years as anything but failure on all fronts.

I was trying to be generous as they both hold the blame for wasting a third of a billion quid and achieving the grand total of fuck all.

The difference is it was one of them's money.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on May 01, 2019, 04:59:33 AM
If you want any evidence of the same old same old approach from MO’N look no further than his current tenure at Forest. 

He pretty well dropped their most creative player Carvalho straight away and only bought him back in after they could no longer qualify for the play offs to see an immediate upturn of 3-0 against Boro with him being central to most things positive.  He really hasn’t changed one bit.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Tuscans on May 01, 2019, 11:06:47 AM
What's Dean Smiths fathers name? Could be a nice gesture to add his name to the "My Lord" or "Claret and Blue army" songs. I dunno just an idea.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: XXVilla on May 01, 2019, 11:21:48 AM
Quote from: Tuscans on May 01, 2019, 11:06:47 AM
What's Dean Smiths fathers name? Could be a nice gesture to add his name to the "My Lord" or "Claret and Blue army" songs. I dunno just an idea.

Nah. Would you want 30,000 people singing about your family?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: frank black on May 01, 2019, 11:25:43 AM
I believe this idea has been promoted all over social media. Not sure myself could be a nice touch?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Tuscans on May 01, 2019, 11:35:23 AM
Quote from: XXVilla on May 01, 2019, 11:21:48 AM
Quote from: Tuscans on May 01, 2019, 11:06:47 AM
What's Dean Smiths fathers name? Could be a nice gesture to add his name to the "My Lord" or "Claret and Blue army" songs. I dunno just an idea.

Nah. Would you want 30,000 people singing about your family?
As long as you weren't slagging them off then yeah, why not?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: XXVilla on May 01, 2019, 11:44:35 AM
Quote from: Tuscans on May 01, 2019, 11:35:23 AM
Quote from: XXVilla on May 01, 2019, 11:21:48 AM
Quote from: Tuscans on May 01, 2019, 11:06:47 AM
What's Dean Smiths fathers name? Could be a nice gesture to add his name to the "My Lord" or "Claret and Blue army" songs. I dunno just an idea.

Nah. Would you want 30,000 people singing about your family?
As long as you weren't slagging them off then yeah, why not?

Because there’s all sorts of other stuff to think about. Will the opposition fans pick it up and turn it into something unpleasant? Will other family members like it? Will it cause undue tension in the family dynamic? What happens when we go through a bad patch and the idiots are shouting derogatory things about his dad? Will Smith like it? As someone who’s mother passed away after suffering for years with dementia I have first hand experience of l the tensions and sheer misery that this disease causes.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: danno on May 01, 2019, 11:50:36 AM
A firm no from me.  I know it came out in an interview and is public knowledge but I regard the condition of the managers dad mrs kids and wife as absolutely none of my business.

Dean Smith is the manager of Aston Villa a job he chose to take on knowing full well that he will be cheered when we win and jeered if we get humped 5-0 by Leyton Orient.

I sympathise fully as I did with Bruce losing his parents, but singing about the managers family?  Nope nope nope.

We're football supporters we sing about football, that's our remit. This is just an opinion but singing about someone's personal life (however well intentioned) is crossing a line.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on May 01, 2019, 12:02:02 PM
Quote from: Tuscans on May 01, 2019, 11:06:47 AM
What's Dean Smiths fathers name? Could be a nice gesture to add his name to the "My Lord" or "Claret and Blue army" songs. I dunno just an idea.
You'd better check this out with Eastie.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on May 01, 2019, 12:28:29 PM
[Eastie] Ron [/Eastie]
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Des Little on May 01, 2019, 12:33:14 PM
That Times article really brought it home to me.  Can you imagine Deano's feelings should we win the play off final?  All he'd want to do is turn round to see his old man.  What a vicious, cruel illness it is.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on May 01, 2019, 02:08:13 PM
Quote from: danno on May 01, 2019, 11:50:36 AM
A firm no from me.  I know it came out in an interview and is public knowledge but I regard the condition of the managers dad mrs kids and wife as absolutely none of my business.

Dean Smith is the manager of Aston Villa a job he chose to take on knowing full well that he will be cheered when we win and jeered if we get humped 5-0 by Leyton Orient.

I sympathise fully as I did with Bruce losing his parents, but singing about the managers family?  Nope nope nope.

We're football supporters we sing about football, that's our remit. This is just an opinion but singing about someone's personal life (however well intentioned) is crossing a line.
I agree.  I really think this is a terrible idea.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Roysmert on May 05, 2019, 10:13:15 AM
Quote from: cheltenhamlion on April 25, 2019, 06:47:50 PM
Quote from: The Edge on April 23, 2019, 05:29:35 PM
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on April 23, 2019, 09:09:23 AM
Cheers, Dean, you beautiful, beautiful man. Since landing here yesterday at Haven Hafan y Môr I've seen more Villa shirts than those of any other single club.
I was in Burnham at the weekend. Same there. Villa shorts everywhere. Dean Smith has made us proud to show our colours again.

How odd. I own a van at Burnham and was there for part of last weekend. Am going to Hafan y Mor next month in a van swap owners arrangement thing.

OT stuart but how much do you reckon it costs you a year to have a van - er indoors wants one.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KRS on May 09, 2019, 06:58:00 PM
Just saw a clip of his press conference and he cleverly takes the pressure of us saying that Baggies should be the favourites despite what the media and pundits say. He quite rightly states that they have just come down, have a team full of Premier League players, have been above us all season and we haven't yet beaten them in the 2 games so far...those very reasons are good motivation for our management and players particularly after the cheating at their place.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on May 09, 2019, 07:09:22 PM
Wherever we are next season, I am looking forward to seeing what this man can do.  If we fail this season, we go up as champions next.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on May 09, 2019, 07:19:38 PM
Quote from: cheltenhamlion on April 25, 2019, 06:47:50 PM
Quote from: The Edge on April 23, 2019, 05:29:35 PM
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on April 23, 2019, 09:09:23 AM
Cheers, Dean, you beautiful, beautiful man. Since landing here yesterday at Haven Hafan y Môr I've seen more Villa shirts than those of any other single club.
I was in Burnham at the weekend. Same there. Villa shorts everywhere. Dean Smith has made us proud to show our colours again.

How odd. I own a van at Burnham and was there for part of last weekend. Am going to Hafan y Mor next month in a van swap owners arrangement thing.

(https://i.imgur.com/QCnzhG2.gif)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on May 27, 2019, 07:59:48 PM
Thank you for saving our club.  Name where you want your statue.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SamTheMouse on May 27, 2019, 08:07:59 PM
Already a legend.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Fred Crump on May 27, 2019, 08:13:27 PM
Smith out ! ( of the Championship )
Deano, thank you for being a top class manager and bloke and taking us back to being an exciting footballing side that we can be proud of.  Even better that we’re in the First Division, but that’s just the icing on the cake.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OCD on May 27, 2019, 08:49:34 PM
A couple of months ago some were saying that the club was to big for him to manage.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SheffieldVillain on May 27, 2019, 08:56:33 PM
Quote from: OCD on May 27, 2019, 08:49:34 PM
A couple of months ago some were saying that the club was to big for him to manage.

There are numerous posts which would be interesting to post here and see the posters' opinions now.

Not the ones doubting a bit during the bad spell, or the ones wondering if he could step up from Walsall and Brentford - that's normal and understandable. But the really vitriolic constant over-the-top shite from two posters in particular.

However, bollocks to it. We're up and all that counts. He's done a great job.

Also, a quote from him about seeing his dad last Friday brought a bit of a tear to my eye. 
Quote
“To be honest, I went to see my old man on Friday and he kept his eyes open for two minutes and I said ‘the next time I come to see you I’ll be a Premier League manager'.  And he smiled and nodded, so for me, that’s enough.”
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Fred Crump on May 27, 2019, 09:01:48 PM
Yeah. Shame Stuart 4444444444 and Footyskillz aren’t on the site anymore to ‘enjoy’ the moment, but that’s life I suppose.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on May 27, 2019, 09:04:10 PM
Quote from: OCD on May 27, 2019, 08:49:34 PM
A couple of months ago some were saying that the club was to big for him to manage.

I think a lot of that was having seen what managing Villa has done to some promising managers careers, as opposed to not rating him as an individual. He was under pressure to get a massive club but mid table team promoted with a large fan base very much out of patience  after nearly a decade of failure. Big pressure compared to managing Walsall in League One or Brentford in the Championship where each are at the level their fans expect.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on May 27, 2019, 09:10:15 PM
After Midlesborough away i offered to stroke his balls as he fucked his wife, what id do now is next level tbh.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: garyfouroaks on May 27, 2019, 09:15:34 PM
Dean Smith has done fantastic a job – but he is a PL novice, will he adapt? Will he be given time to adapt? Should Villa make a pre-emptive move for a PL veteran? I hope he does adapt – but he will not be given time if results are adverse towards Christmas and relegation is on the horizon.  Romance is for Mills and Boon.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 27, 2019, 09:27:05 PM
Quote from: garyfouroaks on May 27, 2019, 09:15:34 PM
Dean Smith has done fantastic a job – but he is a PL novice, will he adapt? Will he be given time to adapt? Should Villa make a pre-emptive move for a PL veteran? I hope he does adapt – but he will not be given time if results are adverse towards Christmas and relegation is on the horizon.  Romance is for Mills and Boon.

Enjoy the moment mate. All valid questions, but for today it’s a wonderful moment.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on May 27, 2019, 09:49:26 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on May 27, 2019, 09:10:15 PM
After Midlesborough away i offered to stroke his balls as he fucked his wife, what id do now is next level tbh.

Post of the year!!!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Davkaus on May 27, 2019, 09:50:08 PM
Quote from: garyfouroaks on May 27, 2019, 09:15:34 PM
Dean Smith has done fantastic a job – but he is a PL novice, will he adapt? Will he be given time to adapt? Should Villa make a pre-emptive move for a PL veteran? I hope he does adapt – but he will not be given time if results are adverse towards Christmas and relegation is on the horizon.  Romance is for Mills and Boon.

I think there'd be riots if we sacked him for a "PL veteran" over the summer.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on May 27, 2019, 09:54:43 PM
Quote from: Ad@m on May 27, 2019, 09:49:26 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on May 27, 2019, 09:10:15 PM
After Midlesborough away i offered to stroke his balls as he fucked his wife, what id do now is next level tbh.

Post of the year!!!

I’m assuming it’s the ball stroking bit that got you?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: old man villa fan on May 27, 2019, 09:58:05 PM
Quote from: Davkaus on May 27, 2019, 09:50:08 PM
Quote from: garyfouroaks on May 27, 2019, 09:15:34 PM
Dean Smith has done fantastic a job – but he is a PL novice, will he adapt? Will he be given time to adapt? Should Villa make a pre-emptive move for a PL veteran? I hope he does adapt – but he will not be given time if results are adverse towards Christmas and relegation is on the horizon.  Romance is for Mills and Boon.

I think there'd be riots if we sacked him for a "PL veteran" over the summer.

Is a 'PL veteran' like a 'Championship Specialist'?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on May 27, 2019, 09:59:26 PM
Congrats Deano. I doubted his selection of JT as assistant hugely, also his lack of a plan b when Grealish was injured. Proved me wrong and now back where we belong. No matter what happens next, he got us out of that dogarse division and will be a Villa legend forever as a result.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SamTheMouse on May 27, 2019, 10:35:25 PM
Quote from: garyfouroaks on May 27, 2019, 09:15:34 PM
Dean Smith has done fantastic a job – but he is a PL novice, will he adapt? Will he be given time to adapt? Should Villa make a pre-emptive move for a PL veteran? I hope he does adapt – but he will not be given time if results are adverse towards Christmas and relegation is on the horizon.  Romance is for Mills and Boon.

Fuck that, the Premier League is going to have to adapt to the mighty Dean Smith.

I honestly think this is just the start, for him and for us.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: wince on May 27, 2019, 10:42:35 PM
Pl veteran meaning someone who fucked up elsewhere? Deano deserves a chance to build our villa. But tonight we party!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: adrenachrome on May 27, 2019, 11:01:06 PM


Quote
ston Villa liked
Sporting Life Football
‏Verified account @SportingLifeFC
5h5 hours ago

What an incredible job Dean Smith has done at @AVFCOfficial

💜 Reunited and healed a hurt club
😍 Delivered attractive football
🔟 Created an historic, record winning run
🏆 Gained promotion to the Premier League

.. and all within just 8 months!!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The_ads on May 27, 2019, 11:23:42 PM
Remember that Dean Smith out thread?


LOL
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The_ads on May 27, 2019, 11:26:51 PM
Quote from: Davkaus on May 27, 2019, 09:50:08 PM
Quote from: garyfouroaks on May 27, 2019, 09:15:34 PM
Dean Smith has done fantastic a job – but he is a PL novice, will he adapt? Will he be given time to adapt? Should Villa make a pre-emptive move for a PL veteran? I hope he does adapt – but he will not be given time if results are adverse towards Christmas and relegation is on the horizon.  Romance is for Mills and Boon.

I think there'd be riots if we sacked him for a "PL veteran" over the summer.


That and I’ve never really understand the rhetoric around being a PL novice.  Been plenty of managers that have made the transition and kept teams in the division and made them well established...
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: purpletrousers on May 27, 2019, 11:27:34 PM
Quote from: adrenachrome on May 27, 2019, 11:01:06 PM


Quote
ston Villa liked
Sporting Life Football
‏Verified account @SportingLifeFC
5h5 hours ago

What an incredible job Dean Smith has done at @AVFCOfficial

💜 Reunited and healed a hurt club
😍 Delivered attractive football
🔟 Created an historic, record winning run
🏆 Gained promotion to the Premier League

.. and all within just 8 months!!

Puts it in perspective.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nunkin1965 on May 27, 2019, 11:36:30 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on May 27, 2019, 09:27:05 PM
Quote from: garyfouroaks on May 27, 2019, 09:15:34 PM
Dean Smith has done fantastic a job – but he is a PL novice, will he adapt? Will he be given time to adapt? Should Villa make a pre-emptive move for a PL veteran? I hope he does adapt – but he will not be given time if results are adverse towards Christmas and relegation is on the horizon.  Romance is for Mills and Boon.

Enjoy the moment for god’s sake.
He’s got us in the Premier League.

Enjoy the moment mate. All valid questions, but for today it’s a wonderful moment.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on May 27, 2019, 11:56:08 PM
No doubts Bruce is muttering something about an assist! 

Dean got them playing, he galvanised the disaffected bag of shit he pick up and made them all work for each other.  Every time I hear him speak, he's impressive.  'I manage them like I would want to be managed myself', simple rules.  He finished the job and I am in awe of him.  Stick with him and let him and Suso build.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: luke95 on May 28, 2019, 01:10:25 AM
Dean Smith , if you by chance read these boards & this thread....

Thank you!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: JD on May 28, 2019, 02:07:39 AM
Thank you Dean, you've helped put the pride back in our club.
Early days, but l can't help thinking of this as the new Ron Saynders error. It just feels right and it feels so good.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: adrenachrome on May 28, 2019, 02:17:21 AM
Excerpt from The Grauniad (https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/may/27/emotional-dean-smith-optimistic-aston-villa-future)

Quote
It was a particularly special achievement for Smith, who grew up supporting Villa and revealed that when he last spoke to his father, who has dementia, he made him a promise he intended to keep.

“I went to see my old man on Friday and I managed to get his eyes open for two minutes maximum. I said: ‘Next time I come and see you, I’ll be a Premier League manager.’ He smiled and nodded. Hopefully there was an understanding but it’s a terrible illness. For me, that was enough.”

Smith, who admitted he felt emotional when he saw his wife and children crying in the royal box as he walked up to lift the trophy, is confident Villa will push on next season.

“It feels right that Villa are in the Premier League, the history and the size of the club, the fans it has – I believe it is a Premier League club and that’s not me being a supporter.

“But we’ve done some hard years trying to get back into the Premier League. We’ve fallen on hard times. Last season was very tough for everyone who went through defeat here against Fulham. They asked me to take on the job, it was two of Steve Bruce’s signings who scored the winning goals, so every credit to him. But we work very hard every day and the potential with the owners that we have is massive.”

The man is class.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Matt C on May 28, 2019, 05:23:37 AM
There was a second once he’d took the steps when he obviously caught a glimpse of his family and you could see the enormity of the moment hit him. Looked like he afforded himself a moment to take it in.

One of our own.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Bad English on May 28, 2019, 05:54:07 AM
Quote from: purpletrousers on May 27, 2019, 11:27:34 PM
Quote from: adrenachrome on May 27, 2019, 11:01:06 PM


Quote
ston Villa liked
Sporting Life Football
‏Verified account @SportingLifeFC
5h5 hours ago

What an incredible job Dean Smith has done at @AVFCOfficial

💜 Reunited and healed a hurt club
😍 Delivered attractive football
🔟 Created an historic, record winning run
🏆 Gained promotion to the Premier League

.. and all within just 8 months!!

Puts it in perspective.
RIP

Rightfully in Prem.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Matt Collins on May 28, 2019, 06:05:03 AM
Amazonf job

There will be spells next season where we go 6 without a win. We've got to keep the faith
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on May 28, 2019, 06:57:04 AM
I thought the job would eat Dean alive and at one time it looked like it would. I was wrong and I couldn't be happier.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on May 28, 2019, 09:12:31 AM
Quote from: mr underhill on May 28, 2019, 06:57:04 AM
I thought the job would eat Dean alive and at one time it looked like it would. I was wrong and I couldn't be happier.

Completely agree
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on May 28, 2019, 12:18:44 PM
been banging on about it for years on here but no matter how big the task how difficult the job the one thing you must get right is the manager
All this not caring about how we play or what the football philosophy is just lets get over the line first is bollocks

When you get the right manager they turn things round very quickly (8 months in our case)
we've spent to much time and money in the past backing no hopers

it's taken years but at last we have a man with a clear vision and and football identity that everyone can invest into
the top end is the best it's been for decades with the new owners,CEO and director of football
but it's still the manager that makes everything tick, nothing else really matters until you get that right

we have at long last




Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on May 28, 2019, 12:27:15 PM
List of PL novices:
Guardiola
Pochettino
Klopp
Mourinho
I don’t think I need to go on...
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: garyfouroaks on May 28, 2019, 12:30:41 PM
Quote from: olaftab on May 28, 2019, 12:27:15 PM
List of PL novices:
Guardiola
Pochettino
Klopp
Mourinho
I don’t think I need to go on...
I think that it is best that you do not...
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on May 28, 2019, 12:37:27 PM
Quote from: garyfouroaks on May 28, 2019, 12:30:41 PM
Quote from: olaftab on May 28, 2019, 12:27:15 PM
List of PL novices:
Guardiola
Pochettino
Klopp
Mourinho
I don’t think I need to go on...
I think that it is best that you do not...



How did that lower league footballer bloke who as a manager got Watford promoted all the way from the fourth division to the first division get on in his first season in the top flight? ;)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on May 28, 2019, 10:29:14 PM
Thank God we didn't appoint Tierry Henry!

Dean's done a magic job of bringing the fans and the club closer together.  I hope the board back him with whatever he need this summer.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on May 29, 2019, 12:40:32 AM
Was reading article today and it said we interviewed 5 managers in October. Only name checked Henry so curious who the other three were if anyone is ITK (Chelts is usually good for this sort of stuff).

Delighted for Dean. I thought when he was being tentatively linked in 2017 it was too early but the timing felt right this season and so it has proved.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KevinGage on May 29, 2019, 12:42:54 AM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on May 29, 2019, 12:40:32 AM
Was reading article today and it said we interviewed 5 managers in October. Only name checked Henry so curious who the other three were if anyone is ITK (Chelts is usually good for this sort of stuff).

Delighted for Dean. I thought when he was being tentatively linked in 2017 it was too early but the timing felt right this season and so it has proved.

The former Chelski assistant, Brendan Rodgers and Henry were the ones I had heard of. Not sure about the others.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on May 29, 2019, 12:57:16 AM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on May 29, 2019, 12:40:32 AM
Was reading article today and it said we interviewed 5 managers in October. Only name checked Henry so curious who the other three were if anyone is ITK (Chelts is usually good for this sort of stuff).

It was The Big Three. Pep Guardiola, Jurgen Klopp, Eric Black.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on May 29, 2019, 01:30:33 AM
I think it's very disrespectful to suggest that we  dared to interview someone of Black's calibre. He would feel insulted.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Matt Collins on May 29, 2019, 06:23:24 AM
There is going to be at least one spell next season when things look really tough. We may even find the league a bit of a rude awakening

I hope people have the resilience to stick with Dean when that happens
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on May 29, 2019, 08:27:57 AM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on May 29, 2019, 12:57:16 AM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on May 29, 2019, 12:40:32 AM
Was reading article today and it said we interviewed 5 managers in October. Only name checked Henry so curious who the other three were if anyone is ITK (Chelts is usually good for this sort of stuff).

It was The Big Three. Pep Guardiola, Jurgen Klopp, Eric Black.


Arrhh Eric Black....those were the days
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: JD on May 29, 2019, 09:40:25 AM
Seen an interview with Deano and Purslow the day after. We are in good hands they are so switched on.
Asked why there was no parade, the response was "We're Aston Villa, we celebrate winning trophies, not finishing third in the league".
Absolute class, I am very excited about Villa's future. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: not3bad on May 29, 2019, 10:40:36 AM
Quote from: old man villa fan on May 27, 2019, 09:58:05 PM
Quote from: Davkaus on May 27, 2019, 09:50:08 PM
Quote from: garyfouroaks on May 27, 2019, 09:15:34 PM
Dean Smith has done fantastic a job – but he is a PL novice, will he adapt? Will he be given time to adapt? Should Villa make a pre-emptive move for a PL veteran? I hope he does adapt – but he will not be given time if results are adverse towards Christmas and relegation is on the horizon.  Romance is for Mills and Boon.

I think there'd be riots if we sacked him for a "PL veteran" over the summer.

Is a 'PL veteran' like a 'Championship Specialist'?

Dean Smith out, Big Sam in. Get it done.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on May 29, 2019, 10:50:59 PM
Quote from: JD on May 28, 2019, 02:07:39 AM
Thank you Dean, you've helped put the pride back in our club.
Early days, but l can't help thinking of this as the new Ron Saynders error. It just feels right and it feels so good.

I can't see DS walking out and ending up at Blose and Albion. Wink.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dcdavecollett on May 31, 2019, 10:22:42 PM
How is it possible to take over a club :


a) in 14th place in October

b) with a talented but crazily unbalanced squad

c) then have two key players out for three months each

and STILL win promotion! All this while making the team's playing style obviously easier on the eye.

I think we're lucky to have him and we're going ti have him for a long while...
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OCD on June 01, 2019, 12:52:14 AM
Loved his answer when asked if he would be happy to finish mid-table. He said he wanted to finish first. Basically suggesting that we shouldn’t talk ourselves into mediocrity before a ball has been kicked.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on June 01, 2019, 12:58:51 AM
Quote from: dcdavecollett on May 31, 2019, 10:22:42 PM
How is it possible to take over a club :


a) in 14th place in October

b) with a talented but crazily unbalanced squad

c) then have two key players out for three months each

and STILL win promotion! All this while making the team's playing style obviously easier on the eye.

I think we're lucky to have him and we're going ti have him for a long while...

Listen I love Dean and I think he did a great job but we are Villa. He never for one second looked like a man who thought getting us into the playoffs (or higher) would be some sort of miracle, unlike Steve fucking Bruce.

Above all things, that's what I most love him for - the fact that he genuinely looked at us, sentiment aside, and thought: "What the fuck is this squad doing occupying 14th place in the championship? This is a promotion squad."

I'm not suggesting it was easy by any means, and he did well with loan recruitment in January, but that's the big thing for me. The common sense of it all.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dcdavecollett on June 01, 2019, 01:03:18 AM
Yes, he refused to use our poor start as an excuse.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on June 01, 2019, 01:18:27 AM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on June 01, 2019, 12:58:51 AM
Quote from: dcdavecollett on May 31, 2019, 10:22:42 PM
How is it possible to take over a club :


a) in 14th place in October

b) with a talented but crazily unbalanced squad

c) then have two key players out for three months each

and STILL win promotion! All this while making the team's playing style obviously easier on the eye.

I think we're lucky to have him and we're going ti have him for a long while...

Listen I love Dean and I think he did a great job but we are Villa. He never for one second looked like a man who thought getting us into the playoffs (or higher) would be some sort of miracle, unlike Steve fucking Bruce.

Above all things, that's what I most love him for - the fact that he genuinely looked at us, sentiment aside, and thought: "What the fuck is this squad doing occupying 14th place in the championship? This is a promotion squad."

I'm not suggesting it was easy by any means, and he did well with loan recruitment in January, but that's the big thing for me. The common sense of it all.

I agree with every word of both quoted posts.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on June 01, 2019, 01:22:05 AM
All his signings made sense and you could see why we signed them.

Meanwhile how it often felt under spuddy.

Quote from: PeterWithesShin on September 28, 2018, 06:02:50 PM
Oh and, "it takes a while to find a system and style of play with the new signings". Actually Steve, good managers buy players that will fit into and compliment the system and style of play that the manager employs, whereas you bring in players and then seem to think "now what the fuck do I do with them". Wanker.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Monty on June 01, 2019, 01:41:28 AM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on June 01, 2019, 01:18:27 AM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on June 01, 2019, 12:58:51 AM
Quote from: dcdavecollett on May 31, 2019, 10:22:42 PM
How is it possible to take over a club :


a) in 14th place in October

b) with a talented but crazily unbalanced squad

c) then have two key players out for three months each

and STILL win promotion! All this while making the team's playing style obviously easier on the eye.

I think we're lucky to have him and we're going ti have him for a long while...

Listen I love Dean and I think he did a great job but we are Villa. He never for one second looked like a man who thought getting us into the playoffs (or higher) would be some sort of miracle, unlike Steve fucking Bruce.

Above all things, that's what I most love him for - the fact that he genuinely looked at us, sentiment aside, and thought: "What the fuck is this squad doing occupying 14th place in the championship? This is a promotion squad."

I'm not suggesting it was easy by any means, and he did well with loan recruitment in January, but that's the big thing for me. The common sense of it all.

I agree with every word of both quoted posts.

Yes yes.

Quote from: PeterWithesShin on June 01, 2019, 01:22:05 AM
All his signings made sense and you could see why we signed them.

Meanwhile how it often felt under spuddy.

Quote from: PeterWithesShin on September 28, 2018, 06:02:50 PM
Oh and, "it takes a while to find a system and style of play with the new signings". Actually Steve, good managers buy players that will fit into and compliment the system and style of play that the manager employs, whereas you bring in players and then seem to think "now what the fuck do I do with them". Wanker.

Yes yes yes.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: baddowvillans on June 01, 2019, 07:01:21 AM
I'll have what he's having!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Bad English on June 03, 2019, 12:50:42 PM
Quote from: Monty on June 01, 2019, 01:41:28 AM
Yes yes.

Quote from: PeterWithesShin on June 01, 2019, 01:22:05 AM
All his signings made sense and you could see why we signed them.

Meanwhile how it often felt under spuddy.

Quote from: PeterWithesShin on September 28, 2018, 06:02:50 PM
Oh and, "it takes a while to find a system and style of play with the new signings". Actually Steve, good managers buy players that will fit into and compliment the system and style of play that the manager employs, whereas you bring in players and then seem to think "now what the fuck do I do with them". Wanker.

Yes yes yes.
No, no, no. "Complement".

Sorry. It was necessary.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OCD on June 03, 2019, 01:57:50 PM
A client was telling me that he knew someone who was a big Villa but couldn't get a ticket to the final. He lived a couple of doors down from DS's aunt so it got mentioned in passing. A couple of days before the final, Dean phoned him to tell him he had a couple of tickets for him. He was over the moon.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on June 03, 2019, 06:17:11 PM
Quote from: Bad English on June 03, 2019, 12:50:42 PM
Sorry. It was necessary.

It's ok, I take it as a complement.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cheltenhamlion on June 03, 2019, 06:29:23 PM
Quote from: Roysmert on May 05, 2019, 10:13:15 AM
Quote from: cheltenhamlion on April 25, 2019, 06:47:50 PM
Quote from: The Edge on April 23, 2019, 05:29:35 PM
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on April 23, 2019, 09:09:23 AM
Cheers, Dean, you beautiful, beautiful man. Since landing here yesterday at Haven Hafan y Môr I've seen more Villa shirts than those of any other single club.
I was in Burnham at the weekend. Same there. Villa shorts everywhere. Dean Smith has made us proud to show our colours again.

How odd. I own a van at Burnham and was there for part of last weekend. Am going to Hafan y Mor next month in a van swap owners arrangement thing.

OT stuart but how much do you reckon it costs you a year to have a van - er indoors wants one.

Depends what site you put it on and whereabouts. We back onto the seafront and that is more expensive than most other bits of the park. You are in for seven grand a year in spite fees plus a grand on top for utilities and insurance. We make most of that back from letting it out though.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Bad English on June 03, 2019, 06:33:41 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on June 03, 2019, 06:17:11 PM
Quote from: Bad English on June 03, 2019, 12:50:42 PM
Sorry. It was necessary.

It's ok, I take it as a complement.
Wahey!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on June 24, 2019, 10:16:35 PM
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/sport-opinion/aston-villa-dean-smith-avfc-16476412.amp?__twitter_impression=true

Please can somebody reassure me that all true Brummies go to Conservative clubs and it has nothing to do with politics?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Smoke on June 24, 2019, 10:27:20 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on June 24, 2019, 10:16:35 PM
https://www.waste of paper.co.uk/sport/sport-opinion/aston-villa-dean-smith-avfc-16476412.amp?__twitter_impression=true

Please can somebody reassure me that all true Brummies go to Conservative clubs and it has nothing to do with politics?


Does it fucking matter, really?

Shock horror someone may have a different world view to you.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on June 24, 2019, 10:31:08 PM
Quote from: Smoke on June 24, 2019, 10:27:20 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on June 24, 2019, 10:16:35 PM
https://www.waste of paper.co.uk/sport/sport-opinion/aston-villa-dean-smith-avfc-16476412.amp?__twitter_impression=true

Please can somebody reassure me that all true Brummies go to Conservative clubs and it has nothing to do with politics?


Does it fucking matter, really?

Shock horror someone may have a different world view to you.

Don't be like that mate. I used to be on nodding terms with Robert Peston.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on June 25, 2019, 04:59:17 AM
I taught Holder how to nod.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cheltenhamlion on June 25, 2019, 09:08:23 AM
Quote from: brian green on June 25, 2019, 04:59:17 AM
I taught Holder how to nod.

John? Good as gold as head of the Gloucestershire mob!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Matt Collins on June 25, 2019, 08:22:07 PM
Quote from: Smoke on June 24, 2019, 10:27:20 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on June 24, 2019, 10:16:35 PM
https://www.waste of paper.co.uk/sport/sport-opinion/aston-villa-dean-smith-avfc-16476412.amp?__twitter_impression=true

Please can somebody reassure me that all true Brummies go to Conservative clubs and it has nothing to do with politics?


Does it fucking matter, really?

Shock horror someone may have a different world view to you.

I had exactly the same reaction

Not suggesting it makes them bad people or anything. But I can't help being disappointed if him and his family are Tories!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: WassallVillain on June 25, 2019, 09:34:58 PM
I know he was at the Great Barr Conservative club attending a party recently. Friends of mine were at the same party. It doesn’t necessarily mean you’re a Tory just because you visit such a place. I’ve been in myself. But who knows he may well be one they’re not all bad.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: thick_mike on June 25, 2019, 10:00:28 PM
I’ve been to do’s at Smethwick and Blackheath Conservative Clubs. I always do a big shit in the bogs and don’t flush*



*I don’t actually do that
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT Villan on June 26, 2019, 01:10:53 AM
I also have it on very good authority that he frequently puts petrol in his car - must be an anthropogenic climate change-denying Tory. He probably beats-up kittens too. What an evil, evil man, he must be stopped at all costs.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OzVilla on June 26, 2019, 02:52:02 AM
I actually dont care, I just love the bloke.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on June 26, 2019, 06:58:41 AM
Quote from: thick_mike on June 25, 2019, 10:00:28 PM
I’ve been to do’s at Smethwick and Blackheath Conservative Clubs. I always do a big shit in the bogs and don’t flush*



*I don’t actually do that

I went in Smethwick Conservative Club  not long back. If you like pictures of ex Tory leaders hanging on the wall whilst you're having a pint, it's fine. I didn't have a big shit in there though.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on June 26, 2019, 07:33:18 AM
I used to go to Northfield Cons Club every Friday lunchtime when I worked at Kalamazoo.  The very clandestine reason for doing so?  I wanted a lunchtime drink and it was the closest place that sold it.  What a bastard.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: thick_mike on June 26, 2019, 08:26:37 AM
Quote from: Clampy on June 26, 2019, 06:58:41 AM
Quote from: thick_mike on June 25, 2019, 10:00:28 PM
I’ve been to do’s at Smethwick and Blackheath Conservative Clubs. I always do a big shit in the bogs and don’t flush*



*I don’t actually do that

I went in Smethwick Conservative Club  not long back. If you like pictures of ex Tory leaders hanging on the wall whilst you're having a pint, it's fine. I didn't have a big shit in there though.

One of my best mates was raised there by his grandparents who were the stewards in the 80s. He was a card carrying Tory who stood for them in local council election...though he has now seen the light. Still a bitter bastard though.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 26, 2019, 09:23:54 AM
I don't really get how it works. If you buy a drink in a Conservative Club, does any money go to the Conservative Party?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rodders on June 26, 2019, 09:49:35 AM
Other than ideology there's no difference between a Con Club and eg a traditional working men's social club. As far as I know the main benefits are a. that the booze is cheaper and b. that it is available outside normal licencing hours if the club's statutes allow for this. Win.

Any profits made over the counter usually go towards the upkeep of the premises or staffing costs; surplus funds over and above these headline figures can end up in the hands of the local committee, who have discretion over what happens to it thereafter. In theory it could end up in the grubby mitts of Central Office but is more likely to be spent on those awful "IMA Twatt - Winning For The Conservatives" posters and placards at election time.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on June 26, 2019, 09:56:50 AM
Quote from: Clampy on June 26, 2019, 06:58:41 AM
Quote from: thick_mike on June 25, 2019, 10:00:28 PM
I’ve been to do’s at Smethwick and Blackheath Conservative Clubs. I always do a big shit in the bogs and don’t flush*



*I don’t actually do that

I went in Smethwick Conservative Club  not long back. If you like pictures of ex Tory leaders hanging on the wall whilst you're having a pint, it's fine. I didn't have a big shit in there though.

You always were a wrong 'un.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on June 26, 2019, 10:10:40 AM
I don't care if he's a Tory or not.  He's trying to make Villa successful again; he's not running for office.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on June 26, 2019, 10:36:38 AM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on June 26, 2019, 09:23:54 AM
I don't really get how it works. If you buy a drink in a Conservative Club, does any money go to the Conservative Party?

It comes directly to me so I can buy ever increasingly tall top hats.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 26, 2019, 11:28:00 AM
You really need a different hat to go with each monocle, the look won't be complete otherwise.

My members club of choice is still the Small Heath Amateur Gardeners'.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Border villan on June 26, 2019, 11:44:54 AM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on June 26, 2019, 11:28:00 AM
You really need a different hat to go with each monocle, the look won't be complete otherwise.

My members club of choice is still the Small Heath Amateur Gardeners'.
Is the groundsman at the Temple of Doom a member?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on June 26, 2019, 11:56:32 AM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on June 26, 2019, 09:23:54 AM
I don't really get how it works. If you buy a drink in a Conservative Club, does any money go to the Conservative Party?

I would imagine that a club has to pay a fee to be affiliated to the party each year.  I expect all the revenue from the hire of a hall is theirs to keep though.  Probably the same for all political party clubs.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chris Smith on June 26, 2019, 11:57:20 AM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on June 26, 2019, 07:33:18 AM
I used to go to Northfield Cons Club every Friday lunchtime when I worked at Kalamazoo.  The very clandestine reason for doing so?  I wanted a lunchtime drink and it was the closest place that sold it.  What a bastard.

When I was doing my A Levels I had a job there as a drinks waiter at the Friday night bingo. Sounds grand but it was because the bar in the function room was so small they couldn’t cope with queues. Seemed identical to any other social club I have ever been in and I got the impression that it was location and cheap booze rather than ideology that drove the clientele.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on June 26, 2019, 12:04:12 PM
Agree - hardly the most affluent of areas of Northfield and that is saying something!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brend'Watkins on June 26, 2019, 12:12:24 PM
The Erdington Conservitive Club showed the play off final and had Gary Shaw and Tony Morley in attendance so a few friends have informed me. Of those that I know who drink there none are tories. I hate the place for one main reason, it's shit.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dr Butler on June 26, 2019, 12:19:23 PM
I used to go to the Chelmsley Wood  Conservative club with a Uncle ....neither of us are Tories....:)

UTV
The Doc
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on June 26, 2019, 01:31:58 PM
Why is nobody talking about my relationship with Robert Peston?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on June 26, 2019, 01:43:16 PM
You said you and he "nodded".  If it helps the topic along I think you are a tank topped bum boy.*

*copyright Johnson, B.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Gary Penrice on June 26, 2019, 02:04:36 PM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on June 26, 2019, 12:04:12 PM
Agree - hardly the most affluent of areas of Northfield and that is saying something!

I'm sure the residents of Austin Village would be over the moon with that comment!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on June 26, 2019, 02:56:14 PM
Quote from: brian green on June 26, 2019, 01:43:16 PM
You said you and he "nodded".  If it helps the topic along I think you are a tank topped bum boy.*

*copyright Johnson, B.

You've got my vote Brian.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chris Smith on June 26, 2019, 03:05:47 PM
Quote from: Gary Penrice on June 26, 2019, 02:04:36 PM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on June 26, 2019, 12:04:12 PM
Agree - hardly the most affluent of areas of Northfield and that is saying something!

I'm sure the residents of Austin Village would be over the moon with that comment!


Austin Village is just an invention for people to avoid revealing that they live in Turves Green.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on June 26, 2019, 03:30:42 PM
Is Austin Village a suburb of West Midland Village?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave shelley on June 26, 2019, 06:01:10 PM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on June 26, 2019, 11:28:00 AM
You really need a different hat to go with each monocle, the look won't be complete otherwise.

My members club of choice is still the Small Heath Amateur Gardeners'.

Is that the one on Hob Moor Road?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TopDeck113 on June 26, 2019, 06:30:05 PM
The Lancashire village where I now live owes its development to the cotton industry but because the principal mill owners were Methodist there were no pubs in the actual village (but two cheek-by-jowl immediately outside the boundary).   The exception to alcohol being sold inside the village was at the Conservative or Liberal Clubs.  Whilst the buildings still exist, they are no longer political clubs.  However, an old-timer once told me that many residents used to members of both solely as a means of ensuring they could get a pint. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cheltenhamlion on June 26, 2019, 07:47:02 PM
You live in Manchester?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 26, 2019, 07:59:53 PM
Quote from: dave shelley on June 26, 2019, 06:01:10 PM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on June 26, 2019, 11:28:00 AM
You really need a different hat to go with each monocle, the look won't be complete otherwise.

My members club of choice is still the Small Heath Amateur Gardeners'.

Is that the one on Hob Moor Road?

Yes.

For clarification: I'm not really a member there, I just like the initials.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Gary Penrice on June 26, 2019, 08:48:23 PM
Quote from: Chris Smith on June 26, 2019, 03:05:47 PM
Quote from: Gary Penrice on June 26, 2019, 02:04:36 PM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on June 26, 2019, 12:04:12 PM
Agree - hardly the most affluent of areas of Northfield and that is saying something!

I'm sure the residents of Austin Village would be over the moon with that comment!


Austin Village is just an invention for people to avoid revealing that they live in Turves Green.

Ah Turves Green.....famous for creating legends at it's Boys' School & The Jolly Fighter public house!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TopDeck113 on June 26, 2019, 09:10:40 PM
Quote from: cheltenhamlion on June 26, 2019, 07:47:02 PM
You live in Manchester?

Yep. About 15 miles north of the city centre.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on July 10, 2019, 05:40:00 PM
Something I've been pondering.

We played much more on the front foot under Smith, but largely couldn't get ourselves together effectively or consistently until the defence was balanced, Jack came back and we found a goalkeeper we could rely on.

There on, we were miles better in every department than anybody else in the league.

Are we expecting more? The prospect of a pre-season with Smith and more of his players can only help. Two attacking full backs, two centre halves who play football. Clearly we're not done yet.

But are we expecting the football to be even better after a preseason and a general uptick in quality?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KevinGage on July 10, 2019, 05:43:26 PM
That will be the test.

During that sticky patch in Jan - March, it wasn't as if we were trying to play a particularly stylish blend of football but luck deserted us. We were largely bollocks.

Jack makes such a difference to this team. But for the topflight, I'll feel much more secure when we have a solid, Premier League quality keeper and an energetic defensive midfielder.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on July 10, 2019, 05:48:19 PM
Quote from: KevinGage on July 10, 2019, 05:43:26 PM
That will be the test.

During that sticky patch in Jan - March, it wasn't as if we were trying to play a particularly stylish blend of football but luck deserted us. We were largely bollocks.

Jack makes such a difference to this team. But for the topflight, I'll feel much more secure when we have a solid, Premier League quality keeper and an energetic defensive midfielder.

We suffered from both having the odd defensive 'rick' in us and having no cutting edge going forward. The combined effect was that teams could push forward and pressure us high because they weren't scared of us breaking on them. Once Jack came back they didn't have that luxury and it improved us at both ends of the pitch. That's why Jack was so important, because teams were scared of him. If he can do the same in the premier league then, to answer Ads, yes I am expecting more.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on July 10, 2019, 08:28:18 PM
Quote from: Ads on July 10, 2019, 05:40:00 PM
Something I've been pondering.

We played much more on the front foot under Smith, but largely couldn't get ourselves together effectively or consistently until the defence was balanced, Jack came back and we found a goalkeeper we could rely on.

There on, we were miles better in every department than anybody else in the league.

Are we expecting more? The prospect of a pre-season with Smith and more of his players can only help. Two attacking full backs, two centre halves who play football. Clearly we're not done yet.

But are we expecting the football to be even better after a preseason and a general uptick in quality?


When people talk about the quality of the football and how entertaining it is what entertains me is winning football. The football under BFR and Brian Little was good to watch. The football under SGT was more direct and often involved long balls hit up front for Platt to chase (admittedly a lot of quality long balls from Sid) and balls hit high and wide to Ormondroyd on the wing when SGT realised most full backs didn't have the height to compete with him in the air. In all of those cases I was happy because we were winning more games than we were losing.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 10, 2019, 08:34:52 PM
Quote from: Damo70 on July 10, 2019, 08:28:18 PM
Quote from: Ads on July 10, 2019, 05:40:00 PM
Something I've been pondering.

We played much more on the front foot under Smith, but largely couldn't get ourselves together effectively or consistently until the defence was balanced, Jack came back and we found a goalkeeper we could rely on.

There on, we were miles better in every department than anybody else in the league.

Are we expecting more? The prospect of a pre-season with Smith and more of his players can only help. Two attacking full backs, two centre halves who play football. Clearly we're not done yet.

But are we expecting the football to be even better after a preseason and a general uptick in quality?


When people talk about the quality of the football and how entertaining it is what entertains me is winning football. The football under BFR and Brian Little was good to watch. The football under SGT was more direct and often involved long balls hit up front for Platt to chase (admittedly a lot of qulity long balls from Sid) and balls hit high and wide to Ormondroyd on the wing when SGT realised most full backs didn't have the height to compete with him in the air. In all of those cases I was happy because we were winning more games than we were losing.

Dean Smith had an almost immediate impact on how we played last season. I stopped being scared of the opposition the first time we clicked under him (although I hated QPR away. I thought we were shit, which he didn't). I can't remember the last time I wasn't scared of the opposition as a Villa fan.

Edit: I've just remembered. It was when we were two down away to Reading in the FA Cup at half time. I knew we'd win 4-2.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Matt Collins on July 12, 2019, 05:29:03 AM
I am sure our style will improve further

Equally, against at least a third of teams we are not going to be able to play in the way we've been trying to. We need to be able to play more on the back foot and the break
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: robbo1874 on July 12, 2019, 08:14:49 AM
It’s so hard to predict, as it’s a completely different set of circumstances to any other time we’ve been in the PL. newly promoted team with a bunch of new players and a few quality, settled ones. Very good manager and coaching staff at championship level, but untested in the Prem. I think a lot will depend on the start we get off to. Get a draw or better at Spurs and have a solid first 6 weeks or so and we could end up surprising a lot of people. Struggle from the off and it could be a brief stint in the top flight. Personally I don’t think we have too much to fear, as things stand. But really who fkn knows? Still a lot of business potentially to be done in the transfer market. I’m really looking forward to seeing how far DS can take us. Haven’t been this excited about Villa since the arrival of O’Neill.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Breezeblock on July 12, 2019, 08:18:15 AM
Quote from: Matt Collins on July 12, 2019, 05:29:03 AM
I am sure our style will improve further

Equally, against at least a third of teams we are not going to be able to play in the way we've been trying to. We need to be able to play more on the back foot and the break
Smith out! Pubehead in! Wait.......nah, as you were :)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SamTheMouse on July 12, 2019, 09:30:45 AM
I'm definitely expecting more, but not right away. It could take a few months for so many new players to develop an understanding and adapt to Smith's style.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: danno on July 12, 2019, 09:31:42 AM
Chequebook manager  ;D
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kipeye on July 12, 2019, 09:45:45 AM
Quote from: TopDeck113 on June 26, 2019, 09:10:40 PM
Quote from: cheltenhamlion on June 26, 2019, 07:47:02 PM
You live in Manchester?

Yep. About 15 miles north of the city centre.
Would that be Rossendale or Pendle? Used to cover that area for work.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kipeye on July 12, 2019, 09:51:02 AM
While I am sure we are not at the level of the top sides yet and may take a while to compete at the very top, I am convinced we are more than a match for the bottom half of the table. I hate making positive statements as it can be a curse, but I actually think we should be looking at top 6 for a first year.
If things do become a struggle, I am really confident we have all the best options in place to respond. Even if we did go down, we finally have a club, team and fan philosophy in place and they are likely to keep my enthusiastic support. Jeez! I might even go and watch them.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ger Regan on July 12, 2019, 10:05:07 AM
My only slight doubt about Smith is how slow / unwilling he can can sometimes be in making changes mid-game when we are under pressure. Don't get me wrong, he's miles better than many of his predecessors, and for every example of this there's probably two of him making a positive change (thinking boro away), but it's a niggling doubt that this might be exposed more in the prem. Hope I'm wrong, obviously.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: exigo on July 12, 2019, 10:16:57 AM
Quote from: Ger Regan on July 12, 2019, 10:05:07 AM
My only slight doubt about Smith is how slow / unwilling he can can sometimes be in making changes mid-game when we are under pressure. Don't get me wrong, he's miles better than many of his predecessors, and for every example of this there's probably two of him making a positive change (thinking boro away), but it's a niggling doubt that this might be exposed more in the prem. Hope I'm wrong, obviously.

Take the point, but for me it's counter-balanced by the fact that he does a lot of adjustment before the game starts. Boro away was a good example, where we didn't cross much in the air, but got to the byline and cut the ball back along the deck – something their 6 foot 6 meatheads at the back were useless against. That's the difference between him and the last few managers we've had – he's actually coaching them on the game ahead.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Smithy on July 12, 2019, 10:23:39 AM
One thing I think we often skim over when looking at the final Championship league table, is that when we had everyone back from injury, and a defence of competent loan (now mostly permanent) recruits, we were by far the best team in the Championship.  THAT is the side we're building on now. I don't see us a club who scraped into the playoffs and got lucky, I see us a TEAM who blew away all before them when at full strength. I have every confidence in Smith to build on that team. 

My only concern is that there will be teams who are simply better at playing good football than we are at the current time, and how Smith will set us up against them. From what he said earlier in the summer, we're not one of those promoted sides looking ahead to where we'll get points and writing off matches against the top teams, but I also fear for us going toe-to-toe against a Man City, for example.  I still think lower mid-table is realistic, top half certainly possible
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: West Derby Villan on July 12, 2019, 10:43:04 AM
Quote from: Smithy on July 12, 2019, 10:23:39 AM
One thing I think we often skim over when looking at the final Championship league table, is that when we had everyone back from injury, and a defence of competent loan (now mostly permanent) recruits, we were by far the best team in the Championship.  THAT is the side we're building on now. I don't see us a club who scraped into the playoffs and got lucky, I see us a TEAM who blew away all before them when at full strength. I have every confidence in Smith to build on that team. 

My only concern is that there will be teams who are simply better at playing good football than we are at the current time, and how Smith will set us up against them. From what he said earlier in the summer, we're not one of those promoted sides looking ahead to where we'll get points and writing off matches against the top teams, but I also fear for us going toe-to-toe against a Man City, for example.  I still think lower mid-table is realistic, top half certainly possible

Agree totally, we may as well have fun and enjoy the ride. In DS I trust. UTV
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Cleybrooke on July 12, 2019, 10:47:14 AM
Agree, we will play against teams who are fundamentally better than us. However, we're going to watching, in real time, a bloke learning how to compete against these teams for the first time.

Three things.

1) He's going to make mistakes and get things wrong occasionally. 
2) If he is the character we think he is, he will be absolutely up for the challenge and relishing the chance to pit his skills and resources against them.
3) From what we've seen, I firmly believe he has the skills, capability and resources to build a team who, in time, will be competing at the very top.

UTV
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: JD on July 12, 2019, 11:04:18 AM
Be interesting to see how he sets up for the first couple of games, Spurs away (do we go toe to toe with them?) and Bournemouth home (hope we go all out attack). Its going to be very interesting.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on July 12, 2019, 11:09:30 AM
I think the bit missing there is that he also comes across as pretty humble. Some people think that being an arrogant tit is a positive for a football manager (and it can be) but those managers tend to fall apart pretty quickly when things go against them (Bruce, Mon, Mourinho are all good examples of it). A humble man who knows he needs to keep improving and adapting will generally be much more accepting of the bad times and try to learn from them.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Tuscans on July 12, 2019, 11:14:28 AM
I think we'll be very Bournemouth like...we'll look good, then we'll look bad, we'll surprise a few and we'll get a pasting by some but we'll be decent to watch either way.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 12, 2019, 11:27:17 AM
I don't see a need for any continuity from last season. Smith eventually played a blinder with the hand he was dealt. Even our small dips into the loan pool showed that compared to him, all of us on here, for all our pontification, know the square root of sod all when it comes to building a side.

Now, different game altogether. I expect us to play differently, set up differently, we'll have a positive mindset, and have fresh ideas, which are something I think our coaching staff have in buckets.

To all those that got us here, thank you so much. We'll never forget you, you have our enduring love and gratitude. But we have to leave you behind now. All change here, a different future awaits us all. Nervy times, but I trust the driver.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on July 12, 2019, 11:31:00 AM
Quote from: JD on July 12, 2019, 11:04:18 AM
Be interesting to see how he sets up for the first couple of games, Spurs away (do we go toe to toe with them?) and Bournemouth home (hope we go all out attack). Its going to be very interesting.

Agreed JD.

Personally I'd attack both. Spurs have a reputation, fair or unfair, for starting slow. Think we could surprise them and it's the perfect opportunity to set out our stall for the season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KRS on July 12, 2019, 11:35:23 AM
I think Dean may have to temper his tendency to keep attacking in a tight game. I’m never been a fan of sitting back but mistakes can and will be punished in the Premier League, so sometimes it’s best to shut up shop and take the 1-0 win.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 12, 2019, 11:38:45 AM
Apparently this is the first time since the 2010/11 season that Spurs have been at home on the opening day.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Smithy on July 12, 2019, 12:59:33 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on July 12, 2019, 11:38:45 AM
Apparently this is the first time since the 2010/11 season that Spurs have been at home on the opening day.

I know this much, having seen our activity so far this summer, and the way we finished last season, they will NOT be relishing facing us - as is normally the case for anyone playing the newly promoted sides...
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on July 12, 2019, 03:12:14 PM
Quote from: Smithy on July 12, 2019, 12:59:33 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on July 12, 2019, 11:38:45 AM
Apparently this is the first time since the 2010/11 season that Spurs have been at home on the opening day.

I know this much, having seen our activity so far this summer, and the way we finished last season, they will NOT be relishing facing us - as is normally the case for anyone playing the newly promoted sides...
It may well take us a while to get everything workign effectively; I'd expect Spppurrrrrrss to win this; or at least draw.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 12, 2019, 03:24:21 PM
Nah, we’ll destroy them. 3-0, and the collective dropping of jaws will be heard from miles away.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on July 12, 2019, 03:34:01 PM
Quote from: Risso on July 12, 2019, 03:24:21 PM
Nah, we’ll destroy them. 3-0, and the collective dropping of jaws will be heard from miles away.

Because it should have been 5.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: clash city rocker on July 12, 2019, 06:46:53 PM
One team I reckon we can turn over at the park this season is man utd.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 12, 2019, 06:47:43 PM
Quote from: Drummond on July 12, 2019, 03:34:01 PM
Quote from: Risso on July 12, 2019, 03:24:21 PM
Nah, we’ll destroy them. 3-0, and the collective dropping of jaws will be heard from miles away.

Because it should have been 5.

Yup!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on July 12, 2019, 07:16:05 PM
I'm surprised Dean hasn't added this summer to his coaching team. I appreciate he's very much a hands-on Coach but the fella needs to delegate more before he burns himself out, not now but later on in the season. From what I've seen he's only had a few days holiday. I would hate him to fail, not because he wasn't good enough but because he didn't take care of himself.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on July 12, 2019, 07:18:59 PM
Quote from: clash city rocker on July 12, 2019, 06:46:53 PM
One team I reckon we can turn over at the park this season is man utd.

And about bloody time too!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pooligan on July 12, 2019, 07:24:59 PM
Hopefully with a couple of new full backs in Guibert and Targett we will be a lot stronger ,certainly at attacking .Of course Elmo and Hause could also play at full back
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: clash city rocker on July 14, 2019, 01:02:08 PM
So he has managed...Walsall..Brentford..Aston villa....WBA....spooky
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: in exile on July 15, 2019, 11:18:03 AM
Quote from: clash city rocker on July 14, 2019, 01:02:08 PM
So he has managed...Walsall..Brentford..Aston villa....WBA....spooky
Ok, what have I missed this time?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on July 15, 2019, 04:59:58 PM
Anybody with twitter/instagram will have no doubt noticed the squad doing a bit of white water rafting (and looking like they're loving it). I absolutely love seeing these types of pictures of the team bonding, I remember Wagner being lauded for doing this kind of thing with Huddersfield and boosting there togetherness.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 15, 2019, 06:14:06 PM
Quote
Assistant Coach Richard O'Kelly says Aston Villa will not change their approach to matches in the Premier League this season.

Our No.2 insists the team will simply evolve, and not alter the blueprint as we return to the most entertaining league in the world.

He and Head Coach Dean Smith have a long-standing reputation for an attractive, progressive implementation of style – something that was a key factor in their appointment back in October.

And fans can get ready for more of the same, according to O'Kelly, who admits he's been waiting a long time to coach on this stage.

He said: "The blueprint is the same. We are what we are.

"Dean Smith is who he is. I am who I am also, as is John Terry and the rest of the coaching staff.

"We all believe in the same thing and that's why we're here. We know what we want to do. There's also really good people here. That's important.

"On a personal level, it's the moment I've been waiting for all my life.

"I've been coaching 30 years, so it's taken a while. But I got here eventually!"

On what facets of the game will change notably in the top-flight, O'Kelly believes it will be the 'pressure' while in and out of possession.

That, he says, will be an integral part of the work completed out in Minnesota, where Villa have rounded off day two of their pre-season camp.

He added: "In the Premier League we'll be under pressure, with and without the ball.

"They'll have to keep a cool head, play forwards at the right time and be compact at the right time.

"Those are things that will stand us in good stead. We have to make sure everything we do has an outcome to it. We'll be working towards that this week.

"The running stats are probably the main difference, too. They're higher in the Premier League.

"It's also a belief from the players in terms of what they're doing. All the top sides make mistakes, but you don't realise they do, because of how they react to them.

"They're so supportive of each other and that's what we want Aston Villa to be – a forward-thinking, attacking side."
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Diablo on July 16, 2019, 05:08:04 PM
DS interview from Minnesota 



Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Monty on July 16, 2019, 06:14:32 PM
It just makes me warm inside to hear how much the emphasise the style, the ethos, the playing ideas. I know we all have only ever wanted Villa to succeed, but I don't think I've ever wanted a particular Villa team to succeed as much as I want this one to.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 16, 2019, 06:29:54 PM
He says all of the right things pretty much all the time. We go into games now expecting to win, expecting to play a certain way. None of us are so naive to think we will win every game but it’s great to know irrespective of the opponent we will always try to.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on July 16, 2019, 06:33:22 PM
Brilliant interview. I was pleased to hear him pronounce "tour" correctly as well -  "too-a". My kids take the piss when I say it properly
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on July 16, 2019, 09:24:21 PM
Quote from: Chico Hamilton III on July 16, 2019, 06:33:22 PM
Brilliant interview. I was pleased to hear him pronounce "tour" correctly as well -  "too-a". My kids take the piss when I say it properly

I thought exactly the same.  Too-a, bless him!  Good interview and 'more business to be done' he said.  I am also interested in his quote 'some of the players we are linked with, we haven't even spoken about'.  I wonder whether this is Butland, Webster, Phillips?  Would love to find out.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 16, 2019, 10:16:57 PM
The players we have signed have Been very short linked withs.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: jwarry on July 16, 2019, 10:21:08 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on July 16, 2019, 10:16:57 PM
The players we have signed have Been very short linked withs.

Apart from the loans of course
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on July 16, 2019, 10:41:30 PM
There is a lot of talk on this thread about how we will fare in general, how we will approach different teams and how we will do against different teams. We need to go toe to toe with the top teams like Wolves did last season but we also need to be ruthless against the teams in the bottom third of the table (of which we may be one). That is where Wolves slipped up last year. I don't want to lose to anyone, especially heavily but it isn't games against Liverpool and Manchester City which will be our six pointers or will define our season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 16, 2019, 10:45:16 PM
Quote from: Damo70 on July 16, 2019, 10:41:30 PM
There is a lot of talk on this thread about how we will fare in general, how we will approach different teams and how we will do against different teams. We need to go toe to toe with the top teams like Wolves did last season but we also need to be ruthless against the teams in the bottom third of the table (of which we may be one). That is where Wolves slipped up last year. I don't want to lose to anyone, especially heavily but it isn't games against Liverpool and Manchester City which will be our six pointers or will define our season.

Despite the fact that I'm convinced that we'll win the league, I think 7th wouldn't be the end of the world.

Edit: to be fair to the end of the world, it's doing a great job without any help from me.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 16, 2019, 11:05:44 PM
Just watched his latest interview. I’d like to reiterate however this season turns out. I love Dean Smith. He represents all that I love about Aston Villa.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: purpletrousers on July 16, 2019, 11:26:03 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on July 16, 2019, 11:05:44 PM
Just watched his latest interview. I’d like to reiterate however this season turns out. I love Dean Smith. He represents all that I love about Aston Villa.

Hear, hear. As I think he said, an exciting time to be a Villa fan.
I quite like I draped my scarf very neatly down one end of our new sofa the day I got back from Wembley and it seems to have literally just become part of the furniture. Will see if it stays once I start disappearing every other week to go to a match...
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 16, 2019, 11:52:34 PM
A huge part of it is the journey we have all been on. What a fucking miserable ride it has been. But to have a Villa man as captain and manager leading our promotion is the best feeling in the world.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TonyD on July 17, 2019, 12:08:28 AM
Can get 14.1 to win at Spurs..............5.1 the draw.   
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 17, 2019, 02:14:30 AM
Quote from: TonyD on July 17, 2019, 12:08:28 AM
Can get 14.1 to win at Spurs..............5.1 the draw.   

14-1, free money.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Axl Rose on July 17, 2019, 06:03:56 AM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on July 16, 2019, 11:52:34 PM
A huge part of it is the journey we have all been on. What a fucking miserable ride it has been. But to have a Villa man as captain and manager leading our promotion is the best feeling in the world.

Absolutely spot on.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Smirker on July 18, 2019, 10:16:39 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on July 16, 2019, 11:52:34 PM
A huge part of it is the journey we have all been on. What a fucking miserable ride it has been. But to have a Villa man as captain and manager leading our promotion is the best feeling in the world.

Yes. I feel the most optimistic toward the team than I have in many years and I just want to believe its our time now to enjoy some success. I just don't want to be disappointed and deflated again. We've all been through enough now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on July 18, 2019, 10:24:52 PM
Consolidation this season with a view to being more ruthless and bringing in players on a steady but sure footing going forward.  I really think the most key position is the defensive central midfielder as I think we still look a bit easy to bully in there in the more physical games.  Whilst I think Jack and SJM are superb players, they lack a bit physically (although SJM can run all day long) and need additional support next to them.  I honestly think the right signing in that position might be worth up to five places in the league.  Therefore, almost pays for itself.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: not3bad on July 31, 2019, 04:17:02 PM
Dean Smith benefited from Steve Bruce's work at Villa, claims TalkSport pundit Simon Jordan.

https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2019/07/31/simon-jordan-claims-dean-smith-benefited-from-steve-bruces-work/

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 31, 2019, 04:24:46 PM
Quote from: not3bad on July 31, 2019, 04:17:02 PM
Dean Smith benefited from Steve Bruce's work at Villa, claims TalkSport pundit Simon Jordan.

https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2019/07/31/simon-jordan-claims-dean-smith-benefited-from-steve-bruces-work/



Absolute fucking horseshit.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OCD on July 31, 2019, 04:30:04 PM
Bruce did an important job of stabilising us and Purslow has basically said that Bruce was on his own when he (Purslow) first started, such was our state after poor financial mis-management. So I agree with Jordan to a point but he takes the point too far to suggest that Smith and Terry were riding on the crest of a wave. We were still a mess (1 fit central defender) when Smith took over and it was only the work the club did in the January window and getting key players like Jack back fit that allowed us to go on a run that got us into the play-offs.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Smirker on July 31, 2019, 04:34:02 PM
Quote from: Risso on July 31, 2019, 04:24:46 PM
Quote from: not3bad on July 31, 2019, 04:17:02 PM
Dean Smith benefited from Steve Bruce's work at Villa, claims TalkSport pundit Simon Jordan.

https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2019/07/31/simon-jordan-claims-dean-smith-benefited-from-steve-bruces-work/



Absolute fucking horseshit.

 ;D
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 31, 2019, 05:08:00 PM
Simon Jordan is generally very complimentary about us so I don’t mind him. However he also loves Steve Bruce. So none of this is surprising. And as Risso has pointed out an opinion that is complete and utter bollocks.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: danno on July 31, 2019, 05:34:00 PM
Quote from: not3bad on July 31, 2019, 04:17:02 PM
Dean Smith benefited from Steve Bruce's work at Villa, claims TalkSport pundit Simon Jordan.

https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2019/07/31/simon-jordan-claims-dean-smith-benefited-from-steve-bruces-work/

In fairness Jordan is right, if Bruce had done a better job Smith may never have been appointed. Cheers Steve!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on July 31, 2019, 06:26:56 PM
Quote from: Risso on July 31, 2019, 04:24:46 PM
Quote from: not3bad on July 31, 2019, 04:17:02 PM
Dean Smith benefited from Steve Bruce's work at Villa, claims TalkSport pundit Simon Jordan.

https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2019/07/31/simon-jordan-claims-dean-smith-benefited-from-steve-bruces-work/



Absolute fucking horseshit.

Ha! Jordan has a point. Smith came in, looked at the team and thought 'the midfield and attack are fine, what would really change things here is a bloody defence. Oh and tactics might help too'.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on July 31, 2019, 06:58:46 PM
Quote from: Risso on July 31, 2019, 04:24:46 PM
Quote from: not3bad on July 31, 2019, 04:17:02 PM
Dean Smith benefited from Steve Bruce's work at Villa, claims TalkSport pundit Simon Jordan.

https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2019/07/31/simon-jordan-claims-dean-smith-benefited-from-steve-bruces-work/



Absolute fucking horseshit.



Even that pro Bruce article points out that Bruce left Smith with "an unbalanced and thin squad". What is this "Bruce bounce" the article mentioned? Whatever Bruce bounce there may have been at some points in his reign the bounce had long gone by the time Bruce left.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: wittonwarrior on July 31, 2019, 07:29:46 PM
A lot of praise needs to be given to Deano for making us more competitive, sorting out the defence and playing players in their resident positions. I still think individual performances from Mings, jack, el-ghazi and McGinn did the trick but don’t undervalue smith’s man management
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 31, 2019, 07:38:14 PM
Jordan has fallen on hard times and is left pedaling this crap to try to earn a crust.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brassneck on July 31, 2019, 07:54:08 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on July 31, 2019, 07:38:14 PM
Jordan has fallen on hard times and is left pedaling this crap to try to earn a crust.

In fairness, Jordan is normally very positive about us.  He's one of the few pundits I have time for.  He's possibly a bit off the mark here but Bruce did steady the ship after the RDM fiasco and again when it went pear shaped last summer - He deserves credit for that.  Criticism should lie in his lack of belief and trust of his players to take games to the opposition.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on July 31, 2019, 08:09:22 PM
Quote from: Brassneck on July 31, 2019, 07:54:08 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on July 31, 2019, 07:38:14 PM
Jordan has fallen on hard times and is left pedaling this crap to try to earn a crust.

In fairness, Jordan is normally very positive about us.  He's one of the few pundits I have time for.  He's possibly a bit off the mark here but Bruce did steady the ship after the RDM fiasco and again when it went pear shaped last summer - He deserves credit for that.  Criticism should lie in his lack of belief and trust of his players to take games to the opposition.

McGinn is the only thing he did that deserves credit
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: exigo on July 31, 2019, 09:20:03 PM
Quote from: john e on July 31, 2019, 08:09:22 PM
McGinn is the only thing he did that deserves credit

"McGinn is the type of player the owners wanted" said Bruce in his press conference, trying to shift the blame away from himself.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 31, 2019, 09:29:45 PM
Quote from: exigo on July 31, 2019, 09:20:03 PM
Quote from: john e on July 31, 2019, 08:09:22 PM
McGinn is the only thing he did that deserves credit

"McGinn is the type of player the owners wanted" said Bruce in his press conference, trying to shift the blame away from himself.

I completely forgot that. Outside of renewing Axel, the only signing he made that was brilliant he didn't initially want any part of. The fucking bell end.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on July 31, 2019, 09:47:42 PM
Quote from: Brassneck on July 31, 2019, 07:54:08 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on July 31, 2019, 07:38:14 PM
Jordan has fallen on hard times and is left pedaling this crap to try to earn a crust.

In fairness, Jordan is normally very positive about us.  He's one of the few pundits I have time for.  He's possibly a bit off the mark here but Bruce did steady the ship after the RDM fiasco and again when it went pear shaped last summer - He deserves credit for that.  Criticism should lie in his lack of belief and trust of his players to take games to the opposition.

He really didn't steady the ship last summer, he scuttled it by leaving us with a defence that simply wasn't fit for purpose. Thanks for McGinn though Steve.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on July 31, 2019, 09:50:24 PM
Quote from: paul_e on July 31, 2019, 09:47:42 PM
Quote from: Brassneck on July 31, 2019, 07:54:08 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on July 31, 2019, 07:38:14 PM
Jordan has fallen on hard times and is left pedaling this crap to try to earn a crust.

In fairness, Jordan is normally very positive about us.  He's one of the few pundits I have time for.  He's possibly a bit off the mark here but Bruce did steady the ship after the RDM fiasco and again when it went pear shaped last summer - He deserves credit for that.  Criticism should lie in his lack of belief and trust of his players to take games to the opposition.

He really didn't steady the ship last summer, he scuttled it by leaving us with a defence that simply wasn't fit for purpose. Thanks for McGinn though Steve.

And scuttled James Chester as a result. Cheers boss.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KRS on July 31, 2019, 09:59:21 PM
Bounce?! What fuckin bounce? I’ve seen a dead cat more lively than the clusterfuck of a team he managed to leave us with.

The contrast between Bruce and Smith couldn’t be any greater...just look at how Smith had the very same team players passing, moving and actually playing football pretty much immediately. Things only got derailed due to an injury to Jack, and Smith addressed as many of the blatant issues as he could in the January window.

There’s a very good chance we’d have bounced all the way into relegation if Bruce hadn’t been given the bullet.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on July 31, 2019, 10:18:37 PM
Bruce failed.  He spent a shitload, loaned a shitload.  Failed.  Dean tactivated the team and got us a defence, resulting in us going up.  I am sure everyone in the world would rather do what Dean did, than what Bruce did.  End of.

Tactivated, I'm claiming it! Activated tactics.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rodders on July 31, 2019, 11:06:14 PM
Quote from: exigo on July 31, 2019, 09:20:03 PM
Quote from: john e on July 31, 2019, 08:09:22 PM
McGinn is the only thing he did that deserves credit

"McGinn is the type of player the owners wanted" said Bruce in his press conference, trying to shift the blame away from himself.

"Scott" McGinn as Tattie Heed once referred to him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on July 31, 2019, 11:55:04 PM
Quote from: Newby on July 31, 2019, 10:18:37 PM
Bruce failed.  He spent a shitload, loaned a shitload.  Failed.  Dean tactivated the team and got us a defence, resulting in us going up.  I am sure everyone in the world would rather do what Dean did, than what Bruce did.  End of.

Tactivated, I'm claiming it! Activated tactics.

I liked it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on August 01, 2019, 01:00:39 AM
I’m going to give Bruce or whoever it was advising him credit.  There’s no doubt he bought in quality players that we have benefited from.  McGinn, Tuanzebe to name all two.  But in terms of setting up a team in that third season it was atrocious.

Now admittedly we had our fair share of financial problems last summer but if we had to sell all our best players I’d have more sympathy but he didn’t.  He was a busted flush and deserved to go.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on August 01, 2019, 01:01:16 AM
I’m going to give Bruce or whoever it was advising him credit.  There’s no doubt he bought in quality players that we have benefited from.  McGinn, Tuanzebe to name all two.  But in terms of setting up a team in that third season it was atrocious.

Now admittedly we had our fair share of financial problems last summer but if we had to sell all our best players I’d have more sympathy but he didn’t.  He was a busted flush and deserved to go.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on August 01, 2019, 01:05:42 AM
Quote from: john e on July 31, 2019, 08:09:22 PM
McGinn is the only thing he did that deserves credit

I think he did enough to convince Axel he's not a right back. Does that count?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on August 01, 2019, 09:58:22 AM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on August 01, 2019, 01:00:39 AM
I’m going to give Bruce or whoever it was advising him credit.  There’s no doubt he bought in quality players that we have benefited from.  McGinn, Tuanzebe to name all two.  But in terms of setting up a team in that third season it was atrocious.

Now admittedly we had our fair share of financial problems last summer but if we had to sell all our best players I’d have more sympathy but he didn’t.  He was a busted flush and deserved to go.

I struggle to agree on Tuanzebe because Bruce seemingly got him in as a right back and he was awful there, i also struggle to give huge amounts of credit to signing loan players who we then have no option to keep so the only loanee I'd say he did well with is El Ghazi. Going back further I'll give him credit for Hourihane as well though.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on August 01, 2019, 10:15:37 AM
re DS - there's no question, the owners have backed him to a staggering level with our spending this summer.

The flip side of that is that there is now considerable pressure on him to deliver with the tools he's been given.

It's going to take a while to get so many new players to gel, that is to be expected, but worth noting, with such spending comes elevated pressure on the manager to get it right. I am sure Purslow, Sawiris and Edens will see it similarly.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: not3bad on August 01, 2019, 11:31:41 AM
Quote from: exigo on July 31, 2019, 09:20:03 PM
Quote from: john e on July 31, 2019, 08:09:22 PM
McGinn is the only thing he did that deserves credit

"McGinn is the type of player the owners wanted" said Bruce in his press conference, trying to shift the blame away from himself.

Quite a bizarre quote.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: not3bad on August 01, 2019, 11:32:18 AM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on August 01, 2019, 01:05:42 AM
Quote from: john e on July 31, 2019, 08:09:22 PM
McGinn is the only thing he did that deserves credit

I think he did enough to convince Axel he's not a right back. Does that count?

Abrahams? El Ghazi?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on August 01, 2019, 11:38:09 AM
Quote from: exigo on July 31, 2019, 09:20:03 PM
Quote from: john e on July 31, 2019, 08:09:22 PM
McGinn is the only thing he did that deserves credit

"McGinn is the type of player the owners wanted" said Bruce in his press conference, trying to shift the blame away from himself.

Yeah I’ve got the feeling it probably wasn’t all down to Bruce

but you know what, I was Bruce’s fiercest critic on here I wanted him out before he arrived
it ended up being my worst ever period of supporting Villa I can remember I hated virtually every minute of everything he did

McGinn is all I’ve got to give him, so i will just to be nice
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dazvillain on August 01, 2019, 11:41:08 AM
An amazing summer, never to be repeated I’d imagine. Deano over to you, you have the backing of thousands .
Toughest job is to keep all this very bid squad happy 😊
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Hookeysmith on August 01, 2019, 01:27:12 PM
Of course the Manager will be under immense pressure after the spend we have just completed but the single biggest difference is that every single player has been bought based on

Good scouting
Statistical reporting
Manager / Coaches actually going to see them play

but most of all

Every player is bought against a plan of how and where they are to play - not the Bruce approach of buying someone then trying to figure out what to do with them.

The seamless unity of thinking between  Coaching team / CEO and Head of recruitment has been exceptional and I bet not once can Deano state he has a player that he did not want

so excited
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: West Derby Villan on August 01, 2019, 03:41:31 PM
Quote from: Hookeysmith on August 01, 2019, 01:27:12 PM
Of course the Manager will be under immense pressure after the spend we have just completed but the single biggest difference is that every single player has been bought based on

Good scouting
Statistical reporting
Manager / Coaches actually going to see them play

but most of all

Every player is bought against a plan of how and where they are to play - not the Bruce approach of buying someone then trying to figure out what to do with them.

The seamless unity of thinking between  Coaching team / CEO and Head of recruitment has been exceptional and I bet not once can Deano state he has a player that he did not want

so excited

It's such a simple approach to transfers, so refreshing......I'm so bloody excited as well
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on August 01, 2019, 05:03:28 PM
The new owners came in late and limited Bruce's ability to do things in the market, but nothing can outdo the fuckwittery of getting rid of all but one CB, playing Axel at right back when we had six or seven already on the books, having just one specialist left back and then splashing 70k a week on Bolaise , who we really didn't need at all.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: wittonwarrior on August 01, 2019, 08:33:43 PM
I think in the past 2 days has proved as to why he is managerial quality.  Ruthless as in Jed Steer and Andre Green.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on August 01, 2019, 08:37:03 PM
Dean sees what we see.  We all knew that Green wasn't good enough. Gone. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: colin69 on August 01, 2019, 09:17:13 PM
I have a feeling Deano is going to take to premier league management like a duck to water.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Monty on August 01, 2019, 09:31:28 PM
Quote from: colin69 on August 01, 2019, 09:17:13 PM
I have a feeling Deano is going to take to premier league management like a duck to water.

Really hope so. If you look at the managers who've made it from the lower leagues they've all had a lot of self-belief and a clear way of playing which is in touch with the modern game. Deano has these in spades.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on August 01, 2019, 09:45:17 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on August 01, 2019, 10:15:37 AM
re DS - there's no question, the owners have backed him to a staggering level with our spending this summer.

The flip side of that is that there is now considerable pressure on him to deliver with the tools he's been given.

It's going to take a while to get so many new players to gel, that is to be expected, but worth noting, with such spending comes elevated pressure on the manager to get it right. I am sure Purslow, Sawiris and Edens will see it similarly.


There is pressure on managers to get results even if they have spent very little money. I would think the owners and Purslow are expecting safety from relegation given the amount of backing the manager has been given but at the same time I think they will have realistic aims and expectations for the coming season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Richard on August 01, 2019, 09:46:11 PM
At the cricket today with Purslow I think
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dazvillain on August 01, 2019, 10:35:46 PM
Quote from: colin69 on August 01, 2019, 09:17:13 PM
I have a feeling Deano is going to take to premier league management like a duck to water.

I did come around to quite like watching us and other highlights on quest but am even more excited at the prospect of seeing Deano in his match of the day interviews , even though we’ll usually be the last game on each week
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on August 01, 2019, 11:18:08 PM
Quote from: Dazvillain on August 01, 2019, 10:35:46 PM
Quote from: colin69 on August 01, 2019, 09:17:13 PM
I have a feeling Deano is going to take to premier league management like a duck to water.

I did come around to quite like watching us and other highlights on quest but am even more excited at the prospect of seeing Deano in his match of the day interviews , even though we’ll usually be the last game on each week

I highly doubt that, I think we're going to be the biggest story outside the usual 6, the amount of money we've spent means we'll either be treated as a morality tale of trying to do too much too soon or we'll be the big spenders who've come to break things up at the top.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on August 01, 2019, 11:43:06 PM
Quote from: paul_e on August 01, 2019, 11:18:08 PM
Quote from: Dazvillain on August 01, 2019, 10:35:46 PM
Quote from: colin69 on August 01, 2019, 09:17:13 PM
I have a feeling Deano is going to take to premier league management like a duck to water.

I did come around to quite like watching us and other highlights on quest but am even more excited at the prospect of seeing Deano in his match of the day interviews , even though we’ll usually be the last game on each week

I highly doubt that, I think we're going to be the biggest story outside the usual 6, the amount of money we've spent means we'll either be treated as a morality tale of trying to do too much too soon or we'll be the big spenders who've come to break things up at the top.

The latter. Without doubt.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on August 02, 2019, 09:46:30 AM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on August 01, 2019, 11:43:06 PM
Quote from: paul_e on August 01, 2019, 11:18:08 PM
Quote from: Dazvillain on August 01, 2019, 10:35:46 PM
Quote from: colin69 on August 01, 2019, 09:17:13 PM
I have a feeling Deano is going to take to premier league management like a duck to water.

I did come around to quite like watching us and other highlights on quest but am even more excited at the prospect of seeing Deano in his match of the day interviews , even though we’ll usually be the last game on each week

I highly doubt that, I think we're going to be the biggest story outside the usual 6, the amount of money we've spent means we'll either be treated as a morality tale of trying to do too much too soon or we'll be the big spenders who've come to break things up at the top.

The latter. Without doubt.

I agree.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on August 02, 2019, 10:55:11 AM
from all accounts Dean Smith is a nice approachable decent fella, which is nice to hear but not essential

what i love about him is he's not afraid to make big decisions, ruthless even in a good way
i don't think he goes with the 'he's earn't the right' stuff, either, see Steer, and a host of players we let go at the end of last season

some of those guys were wasters but some were really decent guys who we had grown to love, but most of us knew deep down that they wern't going to be good enough for the prem, so they were let go,rightly in my view

even the way Andre Green has now gone to PNE on loan is another sign that he is setting the bar very high at VP
i can see a few more players moving out, even some 'could do a job' sorts who we like to think pad out the squad but in reality weaken us when they are involved

i think that's when i realised we had a proper manager who knew exactly where he was going and knew how to get there,
 it looks like every single player that we have let go has been replaced with a positive up grade

time will tell obviously if we have got it right, but right now this has been my 'if Carlsberg' way of building and shaping a squad for the future,
 this is what iv'e been waiting donkeys years to see happen at Villa, iv'e never looked forward to a season more

utv
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on August 02, 2019, 10:58:11 AM
Same here John, agree with every word.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Hookeysmith on August 02, 2019, 11:35:20 AM
I know a new season always brings hope (apart from us between 2012 and 2018) but I just get the feeling this is different, there is something building here and I am sure everyone connected to the club from owners to CEO to Team coaches feel it also but more importantly they are all focused on the same thing

Not cocky
Not making stupid claims of this and that
Not putting ready made excuses in place before we begin

Just focused on the target of where they want to be in the coming few years.

All this talk of "doing a Fulham" I think will actually galvanize the squad to actually show a few people up this season

Bring it on
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Neil Hawkes on August 02, 2019, 11:39:49 AM
what i love about him is he's not afraid to make big decisions, ruthless even in a good way
i don't think he goes with the 'he's earn't the right' stuff, either, see Steer, and a host of players we let go at the end of last season

What have I missed regarding Jed Steer?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on August 02, 2019, 11:43:26 AM
Quote from: Neil Hawkes on August 02, 2019, 11:39:49 AM
what i love about him is he's not afraid to make big decisions, ruthless even in a good way
i don't think he goes with the 'he's earn't the right' stuff, either, see Steer, and a host of players we let go at the end of last season

What have I missed regarding Jed Steer?

We've signed Heaton from Burnley.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on August 02, 2019, 11:45:19 AM
Quote from: Neil Hawkes on August 02, 2019, 11:39:49 AM
what i love about him is he's not afraid to make big decisions, ruthless even in a good way
i don't think he goes with the 'he's earn't the right' stuff, either, see Steer, and a host of players we let go at the end of last season

What have I missed regarding Jed Steer?

he finished the season as our number 1
he will start next season as number 2
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Neil Hawkes on August 02, 2019, 11:51:42 AM
Ah - I wouldn't call that ruthless, I'd call that good man management.

Every successful top team needs a keeper that can actually gain them points when all around them turns to s**t, as good as Jed was (and apart from the sublime penalty saves), I don't think even he would class himself in this bracket.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on August 02, 2019, 12:33:13 PM
Quote from: Neil Hawkes on August 02, 2019, 11:51:42 AM
Ah - I wouldn't call that ruthless, I'd call that good man management.

Every successful top team needs a keeper that can actually gain them points when all around them turns to s**t, as good as Jed was (and apart from the sublime penalty saves), I don't think even he would class himself in this bracket.

I think the point is that there were a lot of fans saying Steer deserved a chance, but Dean clearly agrees with you and hasn't let the good things Steer did last year season stop him from making the squad as strong as possible.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Neil Hawkes on August 02, 2019, 12:40:15 PM
OK, I get where you're coming from now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on August 03, 2019, 09:40:16 PM
Quote from: Risso on August 02, 2019, 10:58:11 AM
Same here John, agree with every word.

Me too. As a fellow early adaptor of Bruce-fatigue, I couldn't be happier with how we're shaping up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on August 08, 2019, 01:42:29 PM
"We are pretty much done". "We also have the January window if we need it"

I wonder if 'pretty much done' means there is still half a chance of a striker? Although he did list his current striker options.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Archieavfc on August 08, 2019, 03:41:44 PM
Just watching his press conference I am just so proud that he is our manager. He seems like a genuine class act and as we know loves the club. I really hope we do well not just for us but for him as well. No matter what he will have 100% of my support.

I am just so excited, Saturday cant come soon enough.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Diablo on August 08, 2019, 04:23:09 PM




Nearly there now! UTV!!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: not3bad on August 08, 2019, 11:17:13 PM
Quote from: not3bad on August 01, 2019, 11:31:41 AM
Quote from: exigo on July 31, 2019, 09:20:03 PM
Quote from: john e on July 31, 2019, 08:09:22 PM
McGinn is the only thing he did that deserves credit

"McGinn is the type of player the owners wanted" said Bruce in his press conference, trying to shift the blame away from himself.

Quite a bizarre quote.

From August 2018.

https://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/sport/16412471.steve-bruce-reveals-new-aston-villa-owners-were-key-to-hijacking-celtics-john-mcginn-move/
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on August 09, 2019, 01:41:57 AM
Quote
Aston Villa boss Dean Smith admits he can't even walk his dog at 6.30am without being stopped for a photo ahead of Premier League bow
Dean Smith will take charge of his childhood club in Premier League opener
The 48-year-old was at the helm as Aston Villa returned to the top flight
The Villa boss admitted his everyday routine changed after promotion
By IAN LADYMAN FOR THE DAILY MAIL

PUBLISHED: 17:33 EDT, 8 August 2019 | UPDATED: 17:33 EDT, 8 August 2019

When he was 16, Dean Smith used to cycle past Villa Park on his way to work at a paint factory. During the 6am early shift, he would mull over his chances of ever playing for his favourite football club.

'It was a full-time job but I only ever saw it as temporary,' he said. 'I just wanted to be a footballer and to play for Aston Villa.'

They were big dreams, too big as it happened. Smith never did pull on the claret and blue.

(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2019/08/08/21/17065334-0-image-a-4_1565295227451.jpg)

'I wasn't good enough, simple as that,' he said.

But last season he achieved the next best thing. He became manager of a club whose famous colours run like a river through his family and on Saturday he will stand on the touchline as Villa face Tottenham as a Premier League side once again.

'With my family and my mates I am what I always was, a fan,' Smith told Sportsmail on Thursday. 'But at work I have to park that. I just have to.

'So there will be an awful lot of emotional control going on at Tottenham, even if I know deep down it will get the hairs on the back of my neck standing up.'

Etched in the window of Smith's office at the club's training ground is an ornate Villa crest. In frames on the stairs are photographs of the club's League and European Cup successes of the early 1980s. His walls were white when he got the job in October 2018, but are claret and blue now.

Some managers run from a club's past when they arrive. This one was never likely to.

Smith's father was a steward in the Trinity Road Stand for 25 years. He used to show chairman Doug Ellis to his seat. Smith's neighbour as a kid was Pat Heard, a substitute when Villa won the European Cup final against Bayern Munich in 1982. Smith's dad would not let him go to that game but Heard made sure he was on the bus as it paraded the trophy through Birmingham the next day.

'I saw the life that Pat had and I always wanted that,' Smith recalled. 'I like to think I have worked very hard to get it and I want my players here to embrace it like I try to.

(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2019/08/08/21/17065500-0-image-a-5_1565295342961.jpg)

'You realise quickly that this club means a lot. The history will always be there but I told these players last season they could make themselves legends by getting promoted. Our job now is to create more history.'

Villa will tackle the top division with a squad bolstered by eight signings. It has been a bold, ambitious approach by Smith and Villa's Spanish sporting director Jesus Garcia Pitarch.

From a distance, it looks a little risky. Too much change can take as much from a squad as it gives. Smith does not concur.

'Two days after the play-off final we all sat down and agreed it was key that the players integral to getting us promoted and who had mended that disconnect with the supporters stayed and were made to feel important,' he said.

'We have done that. We still have that Villa heartbeat in the dressing room, absolutely.'

(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2019/08/08/21/17065604-0-image-a-6_1565295528373.jpg)

Smith was, by his own admission, a modest footballer during 16 years as a central defender at Walsall, Hereford, Orient, Sheffield Wednesday and Port Vale. Tellingly, though, he was captain at every club he played for.

'Sometimes people see things in you that you don't see in yourself,' he mused.

Skipper at Walsall at the age of 19, Smith was still the designated driver for Tuesday afternoon drinking sessions that included Midlands football figures such as Villa European legends Gary Shaw and Dennis Mortimer — both playing with Smith at the time — and West Bromwich's Cyrille Regis.

'Gary Shaw had many injuries but what a player,' Smith recalled. 'We trained in the car park on a Friday. It was an up-and-down shale surface but his touch was unbelievable. We would have a drink and I was captain, but on those occasions I was the one doing all the listening to lads like Cyrille and Ally Robertson and Derek Statham. I spent a lot of time with Cyrille. A sad loss when he died. Such a genuine person.

'Mind you, I played against him for Orient against Chester and he was like, "Whack!" Straight in my stomach. Nice to see you too, Cyrille.'

NOW THEY HAVE ALL BASES COVERED...
Aston Villa have signed 12 new players this summer, covering enough positions to field an entirely new team and room for another substitute...

GOALKEEPER Tom Heaton (£8m, Burnley)

DEFENDERS Tyrone Mings (26.5m, Bournemouth) Ezri Konsa (£12m, Brentford) Bjorn Engels (£7m, Stade Reims) Kortney Hause (£3m, Wolves)

MIDFIELDERS Matt Targett (£15m, Southampton) Douglas Luiz (£12.5m, Man City) Marvelous Nakamba (£10.75m, Bruges) Trezeguet (£8.75m, Kasimpasa) Jota (£4m + Gary Gardner, Birmingham) Anwar El Ghazi (undisclosed, Lille)

FORWARD Wesley Moraes (£22m, Bruges)

Smith's first taste of coaching was as assistant manager to Martin Ling at Orient in 2005. When they were sacked after four years, he felt it 'like a death in the family'.

These days he sits on the League Managers Association committee alongside the likes of Sir Alex Ferguson, David Moyes, Sam Allardyce, Chris Hughton and Howard Wilkinson as the only one still working.

'My motivation has always been to prove people wrong,' he said. 'I was told by one of my managers as a 17-year-old that I would never be able to stand up in front of a group and speak. That stayed with me. I wanted to show him.

'I am all about being consistent. I learned more from the coaches I didn't like than from the ones I did as I identified the stuff they did that I needed to chuck away. I want to be the manager I would have wanted to be managed by.

'For example, I don't want to be high when we win and low when we lose. Players don't want to see that. They want to see consistency from me if I am to get it back from them. After a game, my view is that I can't change anything so I am not in the dressing room talking for 20 minutes. With me, it's one minute. Well done, hard luck and then I am off.

(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2019/08/08/21/17065688-0-image-a-7_1565295686940.jpg)

'As an assistant I didn't have the best emotional control. At Orient, I was more irate with players and I learned you can't be like that because you need them the next game. Don't get into an argument that you don't need to. Trouble will always find you as a manager, so don't go looking for it.'

Smith has a reputation for being affable and certainly seemed that way on Thursday. He says his favourite environment is the training ground but believes that a coach's responsibility should not start and end on the grass.

'I don't care what job you are in — football or a factory — these people are all humans with different emotions, sensitivities and lives away from work,' he said. 'It's my job to get the best out of them, so I need to know this stuff. I see the job as the whole spectrum.

'I love coaching, being out there making people better. But it's the mental side that pushes these lads and if you don't get a connection with them, players can easily decide they are not going to work for you.'

 
Smith eventually made his reputation as a manager at Walsall and then Brentford. Still, last year's move to Villa was a significant step and one that was only taken after consultation with his family.

The 48-year-old knew his modest, relatively quiet life was going to change and he was ready for it. But he worried, for example, about how his daughter would cope at school if Villa weren't winning.

'I know how many Villa fans there are around and I knew that my family's life was about to come under the spotlight,' he said.

(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2019/08/08/21/17065756-0-image-a-9_1565295811303.jpg)

'I had to make sure they were OK with that. They were all, "Yes!" My daughter said she could handle it and we had my son on FaceTime from America and he was the same.

'He came over for the play-off game and flew home very drunk. So it has worked out so far!'

Smith has previously spoken at length and with courage about his father Ron's dementia. Smith Snr resides in a care home and, despite the Villa manager's regular visits, does not know that his son is in charge of the football club that means so much to him.

Central to Smith's thoughts these days is his mother, Hilary. Mrs Smith was recently interviewed on her local high street in Great Barr by a TV crew. Looking for reaction to Villa's success, the reporter didn't know he was talking to the manager's mum.

'She was just out shopping,' laughed Smith. 'Apparently that clip has had 90,000 viewings but she won't know what that means.

(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2019/08/08/21/17065778-0-image-a-10_1565295907502.jpg)

'My mum and dad and brother were as proud of me at Hereford as they are now.

'My dad has never driven, so mum would drive us to away games in a yellow Vauxhall Viva when I was a kid. She's handled my dad's illness well on the whole.

'She didn't want to accept it at first. She said he had always been forgetful. In the end I said he had to go to the doctors. I had a drink with him in the Admiral — our old local — a few years back and he went to the loo and just didn't come back. He had got confused and just gone home without me. Heartbreaking.

'After the diagnosis, she wanted to look after him and always said she was coping. But eventually she broke down on me and I said, "Right, that's it".

'That was hard for mum, admitting he had to go into a home. Nobody ever wants to do that, do they? But he has been happy there and it's where he needs to be. It also gives my mum her life back.'


(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2019/08/08/21/17065984-0-image-a-11_1565296044133.jpg)

As for Smith's life, it has changed wholesale in the last 10 months, as he knew it would. Even walks with his dog Charlie — looked after by Hilary on match days — are not the same.

'I realised the size of the club before I came because I know it, but when you are filling up with petrol and people want a photo it becomes different,' he smiled.

'I try to be a normal bloke. I walk the dog at half six but then another dog walker wants a photo. That's incredible really, isn't it? I always liked a pint with my mates but that's a logistical nightmare now.'

It all comes with the territory, of course, and it's a territory that Smith knows well. He is where he wants to be, at the club that has always been front and central to the family.

'Just walking into this place is enough for me,' he said, casting his eyes out of the window.

'I smile as soon as I see that club badge on the gate.'
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on August 09, 2019, 02:26:47 AM
What a fantastic interview that is

he just says everything you want him to say and comes over as a genuine fella
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on August 09, 2019, 03:04:42 AM
He's ace, isn't he?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: jwarry on August 09, 2019, 06:02:07 AM
One of our own
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nunkin1965 on August 09, 2019, 06:52:40 AM
What a great interview.
Whatever happens from now on he’ll always be a very special person and one who got us back into the top League.
Nice one Deano.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villabear on August 09, 2019, 06:54:57 AM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on August 09, 2019, 03:04:42 AM
He's ace, isn't he?

Beat me to it, I’ve just read his from a link on Twitter. When I finished I thought “ He’s bloody great” Love him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sid1964 on August 09, 2019, 07:07:09 AM
Best of Luck Dean - do us PROUD! - UTV
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Fred Crump on August 09, 2019, 07:31:26 AM
You’ve got to love the guy. Haven’t been proud of a manager like this since SGT mk1 and Sir Brian. It’s such a shame his Dad can’t appreciate how he is handling himself because he would be bloody proud of his boy , I am sure. Good luck Deano.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 09, 2019, 07:44:18 AM
Quote from: not3bad on August 08, 2019, 11:17:13 PM
Quote from: not3bad on August 01, 2019, 11:31:41 AM
Quote from: exigo on July 31, 2019, 09:20:03 PM
Quote from: john e on July 31, 2019, 08:09:22 PM
McGinn is the only thing he did that deserves credit

"McGinn is the type of player the owners wanted" said Bruce in his press conference, trying to shift the blame away from himself.

Quite a bizarre quote.

From August 2018.

https://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/sport/16412471.steve-bruce-reveals-new-aston-villa-owners-were-key-to-hijacking-celtics-john-mcginn-move/

If you read the article it actually says Bruce was a long term admirer of McGinn but didn't think we'd be able to get him before the new owners arrived. It's not saying the owners bought him against his will.

I'm not a huge Bruce fan but happy to give him the credit for seeing what, presumably, twenty Premier League managers failed to see in McGinn.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: robbo1874 on August 09, 2019, 08:49:49 AM
Quote from: Fred Crump on August 09, 2019, 07:31:26 AM
You’ve got to love the guy. Haven’t been proud of a manager like this since SGT mk1 and Sir Brian. It’s such a shame his Dad can’t appreciate how he is handling himself because he would be bloody proud of his boy , I am sure. Good luck Deano.
i was thinking about the similarities between Taylor and Smith - both getting us promoted at the first time of their asking. Taylor nearly won the league and then took the England job. I’m not suggesting Deano will nearly win the league in the next few seasons, though he might. I do think though that if England ever came calling like they did for Taylor, Deano might want to stay and win something at Villa first. Southgate looks well set for the time being, so not a problem. But if Villa do well and Southgate fks up, it may be something we potentially have to contend with again.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: robbo1874 on August 09, 2019, 08:53:20 AM
Interview was a really nice read too - but I can’t help but wonder how somebody with a surname like Ladyman gets job at the Daily Mail?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on August 09, 2019, 09:02:51 AM
why just there?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: robbo1874 on August 09, 2019, 10:26:46 AM
Cos they are a bit anti-everything that doesn’t conform to their world-view. It was a pisstake of the paper, no offence intended.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Hookeysmith on August 09, 2019, 11:40:40 AM
He is that much of a genuine guy that I don't think he would ever be sacked - he would know that the club was suffering because of him and would call it a day first.

I think every single football fan would love what we have

Huge lifelong fan as Manager and the same as club Captain




oh and filthy rich owners  ;)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on August 09, 2019, 12:17:45 PM
Quote from: Hookeysmith on August 09, 2019, 11:40:40 AM
He is that much of a genuine guy that I don't think he would ever be sacked - he would know that the club was suffering because of him and would call it a day first.

I think every single football fan would love what we have

Huge lifelong fan as Manager and the same as club Captain




oh and filthy rich owners  ;)

I don't think we've ever had anything like this. Even at our best, we've had twats in the boardroom ready to fuck it all up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on August 09, 2019, 01:01:30 PM
Quote from: LeeB on August 09, 2019, 12:17:45 PM
Quote from: Hookeysmith on August 09, 2019, 11:40:40 AM
He is that much of a genuine guy that I don't think he would ever be sacked - he would know that the club was suffering because of him and would call it a day first.

I think every single football fan would love what we have

Huge lifelong fan as Manager and the same as club Captain




oh and filthy rich owners  ;)

I don't think we've ever had anything like this. Even at our best, we've had twats in the boardroom ready to fuck it all up.

This is important for me, I think having genuinely 'good' people all through the club is great. I think Mings deserve special mention as well, along with Smith and Grealish they feel like 'one of us' (Mings because of his attitude, the saxo/corsa interview and the train station reveal are my favourite things to have come out of the club media for years) which makes the club feel closer to us.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brend'Watkins on August 09, 2019, 03:01:50 PM
As it is now I don't ever recall experiencing the connect between fans, players, management and club like it is now. It's wonderful, like somebody has found a switch somewhere in the Vaults of the club and flicked it on.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on August 09, 2019, 03:12:12 PM
we are beginning to look and feel very 21st century. At last.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on August 09, 2019, 03:17:23 PM
We had some good spells under SGT and MON but I think the best/happiest times since Saunders and Barton were under BFR. Big Ron brought with him a genuinely big club mentality.

For a while even Doug seemed to realise he was running one of the biggest supermarkets in the country and not a corner shop.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AV82EC on August 09, 2019, 03:26:15 PM
All of those good times, and there have been good times under almost all the various boards/managers, in the last 37 have invariably been built on foundations of sand and the promise of jam tomorrow. This just feels different, for the first time in a long time you feel the playing side of the club is structured to compete and we can live up to our club motto “Prepared”. I won’t comment on the non playing side of the club as the best I can say is work in progress and an area we really need to up our game.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: West Derby Villan on August 09, 2019, 04:47:30 PM
Quote from: Bren'd on August 09, 2019, 03:01:50 PM
As it is now I don't ever recall experiencing the connect between fans, players, management and club like it is now. It's wonderful, like somebody has found a switch somewhere in the Vaults of the club and flicked it on.

110% this
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on September 11, 2019, 07:26:25 PM
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on September 17, 2019, 01:06:56 PM
Poor substitutions last night. Not so much the personnel but bad tactically. Elmo was getting in everyone's way mostly clueless. Nakamba was doing OK and still full of energy and Luiz should have come on to play alongside him not replace him. Jota was the right player to remove  but we needed to change formation and may be also bring on Conor in place of El Ghazi pushing McGinn and Jack forward to attack them through the centre but as usual I have no idea just felt that Smith failed to influence the game when they went down to 10. He needs to improve rapidly at this level with this aspect.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 17, 2019, 07:38:16 PM
Yes Dean needs to think about the formation. We’re not getting enough control of the game in the midfield, which causes us to be disjointed.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on September 22, 2019, 06:21:49 PM
In game management. Discuss.

Limit  to 1000 words please!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ger Regan on September 22, 2019, 06:24:46 PM
My main worry coming into the season was smith's reluctance to make changes even when it was clear that they needed to be made. Nothing this season has eased those concerns and as much as i want him to be a success (and obviously am not calling for his head) he needs to sort it out, and quickly.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on September 22, 2019, 06:26:00 PM
Fucking naive and arrogant. Today’s collapse and result is all on him. If he’s going to remain our manager at this level he needs to fucking get a grip. There will be no sympathy for him from the owners if we are at the arse end of the table. They will have no desire to go down. Really pathetic to have now to have lost two games this season with a man advantage.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on September 22, 2019, 06:26:19 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on September 22, 2019, 06:21:49 PM
In game management. Discuss.

Limit  to 1000 words please!
It’s the difference between winning and losing, he is no better than Bruce.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 22, 2019, 06:27:05 PM
Terrible. Really obviously terrible as well. It’s pretty obvious that if we’re not going to keep the ball we’re going to get exhausted. He then makes the same change, AEM on, which doesn’t work. We then leave two subs on the bench and waste the fresh legs.
It’s fucking amateur and if he doesn’t address it we will go down.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VillaAlways on September 22, 2019, 06:27:09 PM
Dean Smith lost us that game. Appalling game management and it’s not the first time either.

I’ll take 17th now
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on September 22, 2019, 06:27:53 PM
The good stuff today is on him, but so is the piss poor last 20 odd minutes.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on September 22, 2019, 06:29:25 PM
Engels gifted a goal as did Mings.

Tactically we struggled at times but it was those errors that cost us.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: D.boy on September 22, 2019, 06:29:46 PM
Needs to grow a pair and have a plan B and C. Make changes earlier to control the game. Smith has got to shoulder the blame for that loss. It frustrates the hell out of me when we can all see where the subs should made be but not the management team. Pissed off with the second half.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on September 22, 2019, 06:29:53 PM
3 games with red cards and hes tactically failed every one.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on September 22, 2019, 06:31:00 PM
I am starting to wonder if he's up to it.

We just look so naive.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on September 22, 2019, 06:31:44 PM
Quote from: Drummond on September 22, 2019, 06:29:25 PM
Engels gifted a goal as did Mings.

Tactically we struggled at times but it was those errors that cost us.

Do you not think that defenders are more likely to make errors when under the cosh constantly because the midfield are so tired they keep giving the ball away?

Those two subs at the end were far too little, too late.  Awful today from Smith, bloody awful.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 22, 2019, 06:31:54 PM
Quote from: Drummond on September 22, 2019, 06:29:25 PM
Engels gifted a goal as did Mings.

Tactically we struggled at times but it was those errors that cost us.

Errors born out of constant pressure through giving up the ball and consequently getting exhausted.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on September 22, 2019, 06:32:56 PM
Quote from: Drummond on September 22, 2019, 06:29:25 PM
Engels gifted a goal as did Mings.

Tactically we struggled at times but it was those errors that cost us.

You’re right. But it all came from waves of pressure. Smith could easily have shored up the midfield and helped the defence but he chose not to. It was a disaster waiting to happen and so it proved.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on September 22, 2019, 06:33:37 PM
Quote from: Drummond on September 22, 2019, 06:29:25 PM
Engels gifted a goal as did Mings.

Tactically we struggled at times but it was those errors that cost us.

Sitting deep and having little possession means mistakes are more likely and costly.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ger Regan on September 22, 2019, 06:34:27 PM
Quote from: Drummond on September 22, 2019, 06:29:25 PM
Engels gifted a goal as did Mings.

Tactically we struggled at times but it was those errors that cost us.
As bad as those mistakes were, they came about because we let arsenal back in and dominate the game. Sooner or later you're going to pay for that. It's happened repeatedly under him, too.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on September 22, 2019, 06:36:37 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on September 22, 2019, 06:31:00 PM
I am starting to wonder if he's up to it.

We just look so naive.

I'd still back him to get us 17th or a place or two higher.

However if he wants to become real top level manager in this league he needs to understand the best like Klopp, Guardiola and Pochettino (probably a better comparision) don't just have 300m + squads to use but they know how to quickly change games up with substitutions and other tactical switches.

We seem to be under the impression that walked worked v likes of Bolton and Rotherham is going to work at the top level. This league might be overhyped in many ways but it's certainly ruthless if you show hestitation and we found that out big time today.

Next three games are massive for me as we have Liverpool and Man. City afterwards so really need two wins from that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on September 22, 2019, 06:37:20 PM
No, players at this level shouldn't be making rash challenges and then fucking about with the ball in their own box. Whatever else it's those errors that cost us. They needed to do their job.

Why give them an excuse.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on September 22, 2019, 06:39:41 PM
Just coincidence that our tactics mean nearly every game we're knackered by 70 mins as we have so little of the ball and end up either conceding a number of late goals or holding on for dear life.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on September 22, 2019, 06:41:24 PM
6 of the 9 goals we've conceded have come after 70 mins.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on September 22, 2019, 06:44:34 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on September 22, 2019, 06:39:41 PM
Just coincidence that our tactics mean nearly every game we're knackered by 70 mins as we have so little of the ball and end up either conceding a number of late goals or holding on for dear life.

The real problem with that is that the tactics so far this season are nothing like the way we were playing in the good run that got us promoted, we won because we went into games knowing that if we did our thing the opposition wouldn't be able to deal with us. This season we're far too tentative.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on September 22, 2019, 06:44:41 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on September 22, 2019, 06:31:00 PM
I am starting to wonder if he's up to it.

We just look so naive.


If you look at todays staring line up I don't think their combined Premier League appearances add up to much.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ketzster on September 22, 2019, 06:45:47 PM
It’s the never changing formation that is the big give away about his managerial ability. We got away with it last season because at the start of the 10 game winning run Grealish came back and having better players than other teams took effect. I don’t think that run actually had much to do with Smith as a manager.

What was more telling from last season was the 14 game run before the 10 game winning run where for large parts we were absolutely appalling. He still kept with 4-3-3 through the whole of that and it didn’t work at Championship level, so obviously it won’t in the Premier League. Wigan away was the worst example of his inflexibility or lack of ideas. People say Wesley is isolated, there were plenty of games last season where Abraham was isolated as well. It’s a Dean Smith issue.

A lot of people on here and other sites say we need a different formation, but it isn’t going to happen with this manager in charge. It’s 4-3-3 no matter who we are playing or what the situation in the game is. And this time we don’t have a player who is head and shoulders above others at this level to come back and save us.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on September 22, 2019, 06:47:20 PM
Quote from: Drummond on September 22, 2019, 06:37:20 PM
No, players at this level shouldn't be making rash challenges and then fucking about with the ball in their own box. Whatever else it's those errors that cost us. They needed to do their job.

Why give them an excuse.

Well Mings and Engels have been brilliant so far this season (even in first half both very good) so they have a bit more rope to hang onto than other players.

We've seen it before. When you're gassed your concentration goes and you make silly errors you wouldn't do at start of games. Would've helped them having a fresh DM infront of them buzzing around and denying likes of Guendozi space or even the ball sticking at other end of pitch so they had less defending to do.

If Douglas Luiz wasn't injury baffling to omit him from the squad.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on September 22, 2019, 06:49:39 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on September 22, 2019, 06:41:24 PM
6 of the 9 goals we've conceded have come after 70 mins.

Seems to be similar to the MON days. Playing two really wide players can be exciting and effective when counter attacks click but also mean the middle two/three have to cover huge amounts of ground.

MON was also really slowed with subs beyond the typical Heskey/Carew 70th minute change.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 22, 2019, 06:56:20 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on September 22, 2019, 06:39:41 PM
Just coincidence that our tactics mean nearly every game we're knackered by 70 mins as we have so little of the ball and end up either conceding a number of late goals or holding on for dear life.

Exactly it’s really fucking obvious.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on September 22, 2019, 06:58:26 PM
Look back at how Bournemouth killed off the game vs us. Tactically we have been outdone in almost every game this season. We can’t take advantage of our advantages and we have stupid individual errors starting with the manager.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Flin5tone on September 22, 2019, 07:01:10 PM
Owners have put BIG Money into the Club and i can't imagine will want to see us go straight back down.Decisions have been awful in the last two games ,why sit back against 10 men?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on September 22, 2019, 07:03:05 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on September 22, 2019, 06:47:20 PM
Quote from: Drummond on September 22, 2019, 06:37:20 PM
No, players at this level shouldn't be making rash challenges and then fucking about with the ball in their own box. Whatever else it's those errors that cost us. They needed to do their job.

Why give them an excuse.

Well Mings and Engels have been brilliant so far this season (even in first half both very good) so they have a bit more rope to hang onto than other players.

We've seen it before. When you're gassed your concentration goes and you make silly errors you wouldn't do at start of games. Would've helped them having a fresh DM infront of them buzzing around and denying likes of Guendozi space or even the ball sticking at other end of pitch so they had less defending to do.

If Douglas Luiz wasn't injury baffling to omit him from the squad.

And Smith has been brilliant since he came less 5hab year ago, I'd have thought that might earn him a bit more credit than questioning him after 6 games in the Premier League. He's said we got promoted a year earlier than expected and he's brought in a whole new squad. Give the bloke a fucking chance.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 22, 2019, 07:04:33 PM
Yes and Dean needs to show he’s actually learning from these chastening experiences. At the moment he isn’t showing that, he’s repeating his mistakes.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on September 22, 2019, 07:07:41 PM
Hardly anyone, if anyone, is saying he should potted so they are giving him a chance, they are also rightly questioning his mistakes in the same way most, if not all, have praised the good stuff he does.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on September 22, 2019, 07:07:46 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on September 22, 2019, 07:04:33 PM
Yes and Dean needs to show he’s actually learning from these chastening experiences. At the moment he isn’t showing that, he’s repeating his mistakes.

Of course he needs to learn.

6 games in. Less than a year in the job with a new squad. Just let him breathe.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on September 22, 2019, 07:08:01 PM
Quote from: Ketzster on September 22, 2019, 06:45:47 PM
It’s the never changing formation that is the big give away about his managerial ability. We got away with it last season because at the start of the 10 game winning run Grealish came back and having better players than other teams took effect. I don’t think that run actually had much to do with Smith as a manager.

What was more telling from last season was the 14 game run before the 10 game winning run where for large parts we were absolutely appalling. He still kept with 4-3-3 through the whole of that and it didn’t work at Championship level, so obviously it won’t in the Premier League. Wigan away was the worst example of his inflexibility or lack of ideas. People say Wesley is isolated, there were plenty of games last season where Abraham was isolated as well. It’s a Dean Smith issue.

A lot of people on here and other sites say we need a different formation, but it isn’t going to happen with this manager in charge. It’s 4-3-3 no matter who we are playing or what the situation in the game is.

This pretty much sums up my fears.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 22, 2019, 07:10:13 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on September 22, 2019, 07:07:41 PM
Hardly anyone, if anyone, is saying he should potted so they are giving him a chance, they are also rightly questioning his mistakes in the same way most, if not all, have praised the good stuff he does.

Yep.

Smith has done really well as manager so far. But when he fucks up badly, which he did today, people are understandably going to say so.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on September 22, 2019, 07:16:48 PM
Naive today Smith for me. I can't say that a failure to add a central midfielder around the 65 minute mark would have stopped them equalizing, but I think it played a huge part.

Recycled too much ball, lost too much territory.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 22, 2019, 07:17:24 PM
Quote from: Drummond on September 22, 2019, 07:07:46 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on September 22, 2019, 07:04:33 PM
Yes and Dean needs to show he’s actually learning from these chastening experiences. At the moment he isn’t showing that, he’s repeating his mistakes.

Of course he needs to learn.

6 games in. Less than a year in the job with a new squad. Just let him breathe.

True, but he needs to show he’s learning. These aren’t complex things bespoke to the Premier League. It’s simple, if you give up possession and chase the game you will get tired. You either have to retain possession more or freshen the team with subs. We did neither.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on September 22, 2019, 07:24:07 PM
Be interesting what both owners are thinking, with it being a London glamour game I assume both were in attendance today like Lerner would also sneak in for Chelsea away.

Anyway we all want Dean Smith to succeed and he has many good quality as a manager that have taken him from league one to premier league in less than four years.

However given the progress the club has made and the money invested in the summer to me it would be a disaster for us to go straight back down and would set us back another five years.

We must stay up this season at all costs.

Southampton in 12/13 comes to mind. They stuck with Nigel Adkins who'd got them two promotions in two years up to the January. They were actually on their best run of the season when he was sacked.

I think like many I came on here and said they were practically relegated appointing some unknown like Pochettino. Next 3-4 years worked out pretty well for them.

I hope Dean really learns from this and gets some wins on the board in next three weeks to kill these conversations but my feeling is Wes and Nas will be ruthless if they have to be. They could've given Steve Bruce up to December after all.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on September 22, 2019, 07:24:41 PM
Interview after the game. Not once does he acknowledge that he could have done something better. It’s all about the players. Disappointing that he doesn’t seem to be learning that he needs to be better.

https://twitter.com/sportbbcwm/status/1175835147234684928?s=12
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on September 22, 2019, 07:26:26 PM
The frustrating thing is hes saying all the same things that were saying here, he saw it exactly how we did. Unfortunately none of us on here could do anything about it, he could.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on September 22, 2019, 07:29:59 PM
It's fine margins in this league, and even a draw would have kept us out of the bottom three. The issues today were glaringly obvious so to make his main substitution taking off our most dangerous looking forward and replace them with an ineffective winger was ridiculous. There were exactly the same issues against Spurs, and he did exactly the same against type of substitution, with exactly the same consequences.

When the midfield is up against it away from home against superior opposition, fucking well do something about it.

Not learning from his mistakes is not going to end well for him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on September 22, 2019, 07:38:27 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on September 22, 2019, 07:17:24 PM
Quote from: Drummond on September 22, 2019, 07:07:46 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on September 22, 2019, 07:04:33 PM
Yes and Dean needs to show he’s actually learning from these chastening experiences. At the moment he isn’t showing that, he’s repeating his mistakes.

Of course he needs to learn.

6 games in. Less than a year in the job with a new squad. Just let him breathe.

True, but he needs to show he’s learning. These aren’t complex things bespoke to the Premier League. It’s simple, if you give up possession and chase the game you will get tired. You either have to retain possession more or freshen the team with subs. We did neither.

Did he do this in the league below?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 22, 2019, 07:46:52 PM
I don’t know. I imagine it’s something he’s come across. Like I say it doesn’t seem a hugely complex tactical problem.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: wince on September 22, 2019, 07:50:36 PM
We had periods like this under dean in the championship. It wasn’t all plain sailing. Give him time and we will be fine
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on September 22, 2019, 07:53:13 PM
I don’t think it necessarily a problem to always play 4-3-3, after all Ajax have been doing it for about 60 years but there has to be quicker changes to personal and minor changes within that formation.

Far too much room between the lines and far too many sloppy passes, for the second time this week.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Flin5tone on September 22, 2019, 07:54:38 PM
If we do sack him what happens to the Banner on the North Stand?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Monty on September 22, 2019, 08:08:59 PM
Quote from: wince on September 22, 2019, 07:50:36 PM
We had periods like this under dean in the championship. It wasn’t all plain sailing. Give him time and we will be fine

This isn't the Championship though.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on September 22, 2019, 08:10:42 PM
Quote from: Flin5tone on September 22, 2019, 07:54:38 PM
If we do sack him what happens to the Banner on the North Stand?

We just Photoshop Guardiola's head on top.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on September 22, 2019, 08:13:24 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on September 22, 2019, 07:24:41 PM
Interview after the game. Not once does he acknowledge that he could have done something better. It’s all about the players. Disappointing that he doesn’t seem to be learning that he needs to be better.

https://twitter.com/sportbbcwm/status/1175835147234684928?s=12

Worrying interview that. You’re right, he is pointing the finger at the players. He thinks it’s all about individual errors, which he reels off, but the errors were the result of tactical mistakes.

His talk of playing without fear is also starting to grate. It‘s a bit like telling them to try harder. Utterly pointless and no substitute for decent tactics.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: wince on September 22, 2019, 08:16:10 PM
Quote from: Monty on September 22, 2019, 08:08:59 PM
Quote from: wince on September 22, 2019, 07:50:36 PM
We had periods like this under dean in the championship. It wasn’t all plain sailing. Give him time and we will be fine

This isn't the Championship though.
That’s my point. We hardly tore that league apart and the inconsistencies were apparent last season and when he was at Brentford. It is going to be a marathon not a sprint. Just because we are in the prem isn’t going to change the fact that we are inconsistent and when we click it clicks well. Time will tell I suppose but I’m more confident than if we had Bruce at the helm. Sort out the championship mindset and play beyond 70 mins and we should be fine. The inconsistency problem can be fixed by making subs quicker rather than waiting til it is too late. But hopefully we sort ourselves out sooner rather than later.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on September 22, 2019, 08:18:24 PM
Yes, first signs that cracks are starting to appear. Last weeks's set to between El Ghazi and Mings, now Smith mentioning players' mistakes in interviews.  Yes the players need to take responsibility, but Smith's game management has been atrocious for the most part.  We'd have crucified Bruce for thinking that bringing on Elmo as a winger was the answer to anything, so not sure why Smith should get a free pass for making the same sort of cock ups.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on September 22, 2019, 08:26:22 PM
Is it me (possible over reading) but does he bristle a bit when they mention the McGinn interview?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on September 22, 2019, 08:27:06 PM
Quote from: themossman on September 22, 2019, 08:13:24 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on September 22, 2019, 07:24:41 PM
Interview after the game. Not once does he acknowledge that he could have done something better. It’s all about the players. Disappointing that he doesn’t seem to be learning that he needs to be better.

https://twitter.com/sportbbcwm/status/1175835147234684928?s=12

Worrying interview that. You’re right, he is pointing the finger at the players. He thinks it’s all about individual errors, which he reels off, but the errors were the result of tactical mistakes.

His talk of playing without fear is also starting to grate. It‘s a bit like telling them to try harder. Utterly pointless and no substitute for decent tactics.
The mistakes were happening through fatigue and our midfield being over run.
He did nothing to help the situation.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on September 22, 2019, 08:30:51 PM
Dean is looking out of his depth. Wilder isn't, and without the luxury of our massive spend in the summer.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 22, 2019, 08:31:41 PM
You have to question what is actually happening on the training ground.

We were dead on our feet at Spurs, Dead on our feet against West Ham despite having had 2 weeks off, and dead on our feet today despite playing the best part of an hour against 10 men.

Is the training intensity too hard? Or not hard enough? There has to be something because the apparent fitness levels are poor.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: danno on September 22, 2019, 08:33:01 PM
The only thing I can think of is that maybe fronting up and saying "my fault lads, sorry" is letting the players off a bit lightly when he knows we're going to have to work just as hard to get anything from Burnley.

He may indeed feel privately that he cost us the game, but maybe he thinks admitting as much in public might not inspire much confidence in the 8 or so new players he's brought in.

At least he didn't blame something mental, like the placement of the away fans.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: rougegorge on September 22, 2019, 08:35:34 PM
Quote from: Risso on September 22, 2019, 08:18:24 PM
Yes, first signs that cracks are starting to appear. Last weeks's set to between El Ghazi and Mings, now Smith mentioning players' mistakes in interviews.  Yes the players need to take responsibility, but Smith's game management has been atrocious for the most part.  We'd have crucified Bruce for thinking that bringing on Elmo as a winger was the answer to anything, so not sure why Smith should get a free pass for making the same sort of cock ups.
I agree with all of this. He resembled a frustrated fan who could see what was going on.

He could easily have changed the formation and strengthened the midfield,  but not once since has been here has he wavered from the 2 wide players and one forward. The difference is that Wesley is no Tammy and the wide players we have are not consistently good enough at this level.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on September 22, 2019, 08:35:39 PM
The improvement in the physical conditioning of PL players in the time we’ve been away seems to have caught us out a bit, I don’t think we’ve been the match of anyone we’ve played fitness wise.

The positive is that it should be the easiest thing to sort out.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on September 22, 2019, 08:36:32 PM
Quote from: danno on September 22, 2019, 08:33:01 PM
At least he didn't blame something mental, like the placement of the away fans.


He didn't blame it, he said it was a good idea as it gave us an advantage and he wanted his club to look into doing the same.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: nick harper on September 22, 2019, 08:39:12 PM
Does any other side play 4-3-3 regularly in the Prem? I can only think of Liverpool and their energy and the quality of their front three is obviously exceptional.
Most sides have two deep or holding midfield players and I fear Smith is so wedded to the current formation, it’s going to cost him his job. It’s definitely not right in away games.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on September 22, 2019, 08:43:13 PM
Luiz being left out is a very weird one. I can understand nakamba getting the nod if we were picking one of them but we really could have done with luiz off the bench.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Monty on September 22, 2019, 08:47:01 PM
It is obviously mad to start talking about him losing his job. However, there are clearly things he could be doing better, and honestly leaving out Luiz for no reason, persisting with the same system regardless of evidence or opposition, not changing his in-game planning despite previous failures - these are not small things.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: richtheholtender on September 22, 2019, 08:57:40 PM
Deserves the season and the opportunity to get us back up should the worst happen.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 22, 2019, 08:59:16 PM
Quote from: richtheholtender on September 22, 2019, 08:57:40 PM
Deserves the season and the opportunity to get us back up should the worst happen.

He does, if he demonstrates he can learn from the mistakes he’s made.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ROBBO on September 22, 2019, 09:02:34 PM
It has been a huge step up for him as well as the players whether he can manage it the next few weeks will tell but that's twice we have played for a long period against ten men and not got the points.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on September 22, 2019, 09:07:38 PM
Quote from: PeterWithe on September 22, 2019, 08:35:39 PM
The improvement in the physical conditioning of PL players in the time we’ve been away seems to have caught us out a bit, I don’t think we’ve been the match of anyone we’ve played fitness wise.

The positive is that it should be the easiest thing to sort out.

Surely thats what pre-season is for?

If we kept the ball better we wouldnt need to run as much without it but you do have a valid point.

Grealish and McGinn to mention two are struggling to see out 90 mins, more like Jota, Trez, Luiz, Wesley are unsurprisingly struggling with the pace of the football.

My main problem is the football we are playing is depressing consider the talent of McGinn and Grealish in midfield.

It's as bad as the McLeish days with subs like Elmo coming on right wing, considering all the money we have spent its depressingly negative.

Our recruitment in the wide areas and up front leaves a lot to be desired so far too.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on September 22, 2019, 09:09:02 PM
What do you mean they're struggling to see out 90 minutes?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AlexAlexCropley on September 22, 2019, 09:10:13 PM
Quote from: Ads on September 22, 2019, 09:09:02 PM
What do you mean they're struggling to see out 90 minutes?
Isn't it apparent?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on September 22, 2019, 09:11:43 PM
Quote from: AlexAlexCropley on September 22, 2019, 09:10:13 PM
Quote from: Ads on September 22, 2019, 09:09:02 PM
What do you mean they're struggling to see out 90 minutes?
Isn't it apparent?

I've asked him to qualify what he means, perhaps with a specific example. It might prove illuminating, it might prove a point of disagreement.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on September 22, 2019, 09:17:36 PM
We may have to do a Sean Dyche with Smith if relegation does come to fore. Keep him and have another go.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on September 22, 2019, 09:23:44 PM
Quote from: Ads on September 22, 2019, 09:09:02 PM
What do you mean they're struggling to see out 90 minutes?

They are out on their feet around the 80 min mark. Arsenal changed two central midfielders after 70 mins today and both completely dominated McGinn and Grealish. McGinn in particular was anonymous last 15-20 mins today. It was the same on Monday night.

Balance of midfield isnt helping. We should have two sitting midfielders and let McGinn and Grealish play further forward in a three.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on September 22, 2019, 09:26:01 PM
Quote from: brontebilly on September 22, 2019, 09:23:44 PM
Quote from: Ads on September 22, 2019, 09:09:02 PM
What do you mean they're struggling to see out 90 minutes?

They are out on their feet around the 80 min mark. Arsenal changed two central midfielders after 70 mins today and both completely dominated McGinn and Grealish. McGinn in particular was anonymous last 15-20 mins today. It was the same on Monday night.

Balance of midfield isnt helping. We should have two sitting midfielders and let McGinn and Grealish play further forward in a three.
Exactly how I see it.
I do not think many managers would waste  SJM and Jack in those positions.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chinchilla Bathhouse on September 22, 2019, 09:26:43 PM
Quote from: mr underhill on September 22, 2019, 08:30:51 PM
Dean is looking out of his depth. Wilder isn't, and without the luxury of our massive spend in the summer.

Wilder didn't have to buy a whole new team though, he's got the squad he built over several years and he's made a few additions. He's got a luxury Smith hasn't, namely the consistency that comes with players knowing each other and his system. Our players have played six league games together and at times it shows. Our naivety is costing us at the moment.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on September 22, 2019, 09:30:25 PM
I didn't see either of them being out on their feet. Dropping deeper is not physical, but psychological for us.

I wouldn't disagree that we should have put Hourihane next to Marvelous at around the 65 minute mark, narrowed up and seen if that would have helped congest play defensively.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on September 22, 2019, 09:32:10 PM
Dean Smith is not out of his depth. Some of his players are though.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on September 22, 2019, 10:08:47 PM
I hadn't realised that Dean had chosen to leave Luiz out in favour of having Lansbury on the bench.  This seems a bit odd as we have two attacking midfielders in Jota and Hourihane on the bench but no natural defensive midfielder, unless you count the, has never played at central midfield in the Premier Division, Ezra Konsa as cover?  Kortney Hause must be getting twitchy if he's not able to get in past Neil Taylor.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on September 22, 2019, 10:12:16 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on September 22, 2019, 09:32:10 PM
Dean Smith is not out of his depth. Some of his players are though.

We don’t know that yet as he has never managed at this level. He might be, but if we finish 15th he isn’t. However he is the manager and last two games v 10 men for long periods got us 1 point. Personally I think he needs two in front of the defence and play a 4-2-3-1. I really hope he turns this around.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on September 22, 2019, 10:13:24 PM
And this is Deans team, he has got these players in.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chinchilla Bathhouse on September 22, 2019, 10:18:04 PM
They've played six league games together.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on September 22, 2019, 10:24:11 PM
Quote from: Chinchilla Bathhouse on September 22, 2019, 10:18:04 PM
They've played six league games together.

Yes very true, and lots of training games and tactical sessions, you would hope. Look I’m not saying Dean isn’t the right man, I really hope he is, and I don’t want him sacked, that’s ridiculous, but he got players with little or no premier league experience and it takes time, but we need points, and for me the last two games we have thrown away points that I hope we don’t need at the end of the season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Luke8 on September 22, 2019, 10:35:34 PM
Easy to be wise after the event, but I don’t think Dean’s use of substitutions has been particularly good this season so far. Has there has been one that had a particularly big impact in terms of opening up or closing down a game?

I’d like to see him be a little more proactive with them certainly and probably show a touch more tactical flexibility within games - a lot of the changes are very like for like.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OzVilla on September 22, 2019, 10:36:28 PM
We needs 2 home wins out of the next 3. If he doesn’t I can see the owners getting twitchy.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on September 22, 2019, 10:56:29 PM
We would be making a huge mistake to get rid of Dean in any circumstances. Fulham sacked Jokanovic, still didn't survive, and look at them now - 12th in the championship.

Anyone who thought we would not be fighting a relegation battle all season long was in the grip of delusion. I think we'll scrape survival under Smith, same as I did before we'd kicked a ball this season. But if we don't, he's still the manager I'd want in charge of the team next season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on September 22, 2019, 10:57:15 PM
Quote from: Luke8 on September 22, 2019, 10:35:34 PM
Easy to be wise after the event, but I don’t think Dean’s use of substitutions has been particularly good this season so far. Has there has been one that had a particularly big impact in terms of opening up or closing down a game?

I’d like to see him be a little more proactive with them certainly and probably show a touch more tactical flexibility within games - a lot of the changes are very like for like.

He is wedded or maybe welded to the same formation. It was the same problem last season until Grealish came back from injury. An effective manager sets the team up to maximise the resources at their disposal. No-one can tell me Dean Smith is doing that so far this season and the real fear is that he is too stubborn to change. For a so called progressive coach , I really dislike the football we are playing but that's a result of the mess in midfield arguably.

Agreed on the in game management, it's abysmal frankly. Elmo coming on right wing as first sub last two games is damning. No way should Neil Taylor be anywhere near our 18 either.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Flin5tone on September 22, 2019, 10:59:55 PM
DS talks the talk but does he walk the walk?
We hear all this attack minded,positive play etc but in reality where is it?

Steve Bruce would have got slaughtered for today.

I love DS but he seems a little set in his ways
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OzVilla on September 22, 2019, 11:01:19 PM
If we get the the 10/12 game mark and we’ve won 1 game he’ll be in trouble like it or not. He needs a couple of wins in the next 5/6 games, simple as.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on September 22, 2019, 11:07:45 PM
Quote from: Flin5tone on September 22, 2019, 10:59:55 PM
DS talks the talk but does he walk the walk?
We hear all this attack minded,positive play etc but in reality where is it?

Steve Bruce would have got slaughtered for today.

I love DS but he seems a little set in his ways

I do agree, Bruce has managed in the top league before, Dean hasn’t so gets more of a pass, but that inexperience is also a worry. I am concerned that Villa fans are saying “oh well if we go down Dean will bring us back up” I bloody don’t want to go down, so let’s sort it out quickly!!!!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Luke8 on September 22, 2019, 11:11:48 PM
Quote from: brontebilly on September 22, 2019, 10:57:15 PM
Quote from: Luke8 on September 22, 2019, 10:35:34 PM
Easy to be wise after the event, but I don’t think Dean’s use of substitutions has been particularly good this season so far. Has there has been one that had a particularly big impact in terms of opening up or closing down a game?

I’d like to see him be a little more proactive with them certainly and probably show a touch more tactical flexibility within games - a lot of the changes are very like for like.

He is wedded or maybe welded to the same formation. It was the same problem last season until Grealish came back from injury. An effective manager sets the team up to maximise the resources at their disposal. No-one can tell me Dean Smith is doing that so far this season and the real fear is that he is too stubborn to change. For a so called progressive coach , I really dislike the football we are playing but that's a result of the mess in midfield arguably.

Agreed on the in game management, it's abysmal frankly. Elmo coming on right wing as first sub last two games is damning. No way should Neil Taylor be anywhere near our 18 either.

I would tend to put myself on the more positive viewpoint of things, but I genuinely think the football has been decent in spells in all games bar  Palace. It’s the fact that we don’t sustain it though having control of the game (with better ball retention and more possession) and have invited teams onto us by dropping to deep that are the bigger issues for me.
Today, some of the football we played was very good, it just didn’t happen for long enough spells given the fact they had ten men.

Would be interested to know his logic behind the Elmo sub today. Thought the game was crying out for more control at that stage, so probably Jota or Lansbury would have been they way to go.

Re. Taylor - We haven’t really got another option at left back with Targett just coming back from injury. And, while I think we will finish the season with Targett as first choice, Taylor has been ok by and large.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nii Lamptey on September 22, 2019, 11:53:45 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on September 22, 2019, 08:27:06 PM
The mistakes were happening through fatigue and our midfield being over run.
He did nothing to help the situation.
100% agree. McGinn was on his arse 2nd half and should have been switched for Hourihane or Lansbury on the hour. Nakamba had a great game and only tired I felt due to having to cover defensive duties of the rest of midfield as fatigue set in.

I like Smith, but if he sticks with this stubborn, my way or the highway attitude, there’s only one way it’s going. The fact that he played the same sub card as he did in a failed attempt only mere days ago against West Ham, worries me somewhat.

Needs to reverse the team’s fortunes ASAP.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on September 22, 2019, 11:57:54 PM
We know that our owners won't fuck about if he needs to be removed. I hope he doesn't.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on September 22, 2019, 11:58:38 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on September 22, 2019, 10:56:29 PM
We would be making a huge mistake to get rid of Dean in any circumstances. Fulham sacked Jokanovic, still didn't survive, and look at them now - 12th in the championship.

Anyone who thought we would not be fighting a relegation battle all season long was in the grip of delusion. I think we'll scrape survival under Smith, same as I did before we'd kicked a ball this season. But if we don't, he's still the manager I'd want in charge of the team next season.

On the other hand, Leicester sacked Ranieri and now they're third in the Premier League.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Des Little on September 23, 2019, 12:05:28 AM
Huge three league games coming up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ROBBO on September 23, 2019, 01:24:23 AM
Leaving Luiz out for me was plain stupid.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 23, 2019, 06:41:57 AM
My view is that no one wants to see Dean sacked, haven’t seen anyone say that. However there is some concern that we seem to be repeating the same mistakes and not learning. Also our tactics seem muddled. We’re getting caught playing it out of the back, and at the same time sitting deep to play on the counter.
It’s not working, and we all want Dean to sort it, but he needs to start showing that he can.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sid1964 on September 23, 2019, 06:56:26 AM
I along with 99.99% of Villa fans are desperate for Dean to be a success in the Premier League, however if anyone thinks that Purslow and the 2 owners are going to sit on their hands and do nothing, then they are very much mistaken.

As mentioned above the next 3 league games are massive for Smith.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 23, 2019, 06:57:28 AM
Quote from: ROBBO on September 23, 2019, 01:24:23 AM
Leaving Luiz out for me was plain stupid.

Yes that’s utterly baffling and worrying.

Luiz needs to play, because he looks like a player who can get his foot on the ball and control it. We badly need that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ROBBO on September 23, 2019, 07:13:38 AM
The first inkling that we were sitting too deep DS should have played three in front of the defence instead he bought on a winger -fullback as he did last game with the same result no improvement, clog the midfield up and with the Arse only having ten men we would have won the game.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on September 23, 2019, 07:24:03 AM
Quote from: Risso on September 22, 2019, 11:58:38 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on September 22, 2019, 10:56:29 PM
We would be making a huge mistake to get rid of Dean in any circumstances. Fulham sacked Jokanovic, still didn't survive, and look at them now - 12th in the championship.

Anyone who thought we would not be fighting a relegation battle all season long was in the grip of delusion. I think we'll scrape survival under Smith, same as I did before we'd kicked a ball this season. But if we don't, he's still the manager I'd want in charge of the team next season.

On the other hand, Leicester sacked Ranieri and now they're third in the Premier League.

True, but they gave the job to Craig Shakespeare and Claude Puel after they sacked him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ldavfc4eva on September 23, 2019, 07:38:08 AM
No panicking just yet, but he needs to switch formation at the very least.

4-2-3-1 would have been perfect yesterday with Nakamba and either Hourihane or Luiz alongside him.

Dean isn’t up there on his own though, Surely JT or The other bloke (Richard someone?sorry I can’t think of his name!) should be pointing these things out to Dean.

A few have said we look knackered after 70 mins, which is a massive worry if true as fitness should be sorted now.

I still think he needs time, but he won’t get it if he can’t see what’s in front of him, need to get a win and fast and then get some consistency.

It’s a long season, and the likes of Newcastle, Brighton, Norwich will all be stuck at the bottom, Watford may come good yet and I can’t see Sheff Utd staying where they are, we can’t afford to get cut adrift though in the bottom three, need some wins fast.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Luke8 on September 23, 2019, 07:46:51 AM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on September 23, 2019, 06:57:28 AM
Quote from: ROBBO on September 23, 2019, 01:24:23 AM
Leaving Luiz out for me was plain stupid.

Yes that’s utterly baffling and worrying.

Luiz needs to play, because he looks like a player who can get his foot on the ball and control it. We badly need that.

Was an odd decision not to have him in the squad at all. Especially given the opposition (we were always likely to be put under pressure at some stage) and that you would say Hourihane and Lansbury offer something relatively similar.

Would assume that Smith rates Luiz quite highly though, given that he pretty much brought him straight into the team to begin with, so hopefully just a selection mistake that won’t be repeated.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on September 23, 2019, 07:53:52 AM
Quote from: ROBBO on September 23, 2019, 01:24:23 AM
Leaving Luiz out for me was plain stupid.

Would have been an ideal first sub to bring in yesterday. Get his foot on the ball and keep us playing. Concerning that Henri Lansbury was picked ahead of him in the squad.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OzVilla on September 23, 2019, 07:58:44 AM
Thing is we really cant afford these 'selection mistakes'. I get the Trez or AEG line ball ones but not this, Luiz playing was a complete no brainer. I like Smith a lot but I've been unimpressed with his contribution so far this season whether it's been team selections, formations, game management and substitutions.   
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nii Lamptey on September 23, 2019, 08:10:07 AM
Also didn't like the fact that he laid blame on the players yesterday, when in reality, HE was solely to blame for yesterday's loss. A bit of honesty wouldn't go amiss?

A lot of the midfield were shot after 65 mins, yet he didn't freshen it up accordingly with Hourihane/Lansbury. You've also got to question the club's fitness training. Professional athletes shouldn't be breathing out of their arses after an hour. You may argue that the Premier League is a different ballgame, but Norwich/Sheff utd don't seem to be struggling as we are?

Really want him to succeed, but so far, he's like a rabbit caught with headlights coming straight at him. Come on Dean, sort it out!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Bad English on September 23, 2019, 08:13:05 AM
After an hour? I was shocked to see (during breaks in play) some of them looking a bit fucked during the first half whereas the Arse players weren't even sweating.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dogtanian on September 23, 2019, 08:56:42 AM
Dean's mistake yesterday was not swapping some players over earlier to put fresh legs on the pitch and shore us up.  He was right in what he said in his interview that some silly mistakes cost us goals too.

We all talk about the players having to step up a level and needing time as it's a tough learning curve in this division, well the same applies to Smith too.  He will learn though.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on September 23, 2019, 09:04:01 AM
I hope we don’t see wholesale changes for the Brighton cup game. They need the fitness, to play together, to take the cup seriously etc.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on September 23, 2019, 09:05:14 AM
but surely, they should already  be fit?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Davkaus on September 23, 2019, 09:08:24 AM
Quote from: Bad English on September 23, 2019, 08:13:05 AM
After an hour? I was shocked to see (during breaks in play) some of them looking a bit fucked during the first half whereas the Arse players weren't even sweating.

I think it's a consequence of us being so poor on the ball. We lose possession far too cheaply, then spend the game chasing shadows, our players have to cover far more ground than the other team because of this. Even with a 1 man advantage, we let them have far more possession and spent 50 minutes chasing them, instead of holding the ball and taking advantage of the extra space.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dogtanian on September 23, 2019, 09:25:08 AM
Quote from: Davkaus on September 23, 2019, 09:08:24 AM
Quote from: Bad English on September 23, 2019, 08:13:05 AM
After an hour? I was shocked to see (during breaks in play) some of them looking a bit fucked during the first half whereas the Arse players weren't even sweating.

I think it's a consequence of us being so poor on the ball. We lose possession far too cheaply, then spend the game chasing shadows, our players have to cover far more ground than the other team because of this. Even with a 1 man advantage, we let them have far more possession and spent 50 minutes chasing them, instead of holding the ball and taking advantage of the extra space.

That's exactly it.  We had an extra man, we can't handle being pressed and lose the ball too easily.  Then when we have the ball we are too eager to take a long shot or a long pass that ends up with it coming straight back at us and we have to press ourselves for too long.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Badsastard on September 23, 2019, 09:49:41 AM
Are there any stats available to verify the assumption that we're doing more running than the opposition teams?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: danno on September 23, 2019, 10:11:09 AM
Quote from: Badsastard on September 23, 2019, 09:49:41 AM
Are there any stats available to verify the assumption that we're doing more running than the opposition teams?

Couldn't find anything. But I did find a stat that puts us 17th in the league in terms of touches of the ball. Only Newcastle Burnley and Bournemouth have had the ball less than us.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 23, 2019, 10:18:43 AM
Quote from: Badsastard on September 23, 2019, 09:49:41 AM
Are there any stats available to verify the assumption that we're doing more running than the opposition teams?

Probably, but the indicator would be the possession stats. If you don’t have the ball you’re probably chasing it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Badsastard on September 23, 2019, 10:34:31 AM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on September 23, 2019, 10:18:43 AM
Quote from: Badsastard on September 23, 2019, 09:49:41 AM
Are there any stats available to verify the assumption that we're doing more running than the opposition teams?

Probably, but the indicator would be the possession stats. If you don’t have the ball you’re probably chasing it.

This can happen but there doesn't necessarily have to be a correlation between possession (or lack of) and distance covered. From last season's stats (as of the article I'm looking at from the 18th of March) it appears that Cardiff covered the least ground and admittedly without checking I'm assuming their possession stats would be relatively low too.

We don't have a high energy high pressing style without the ball so I'm wondering if the assumption we are covering more distance than our opponents is actually true. If it isn't I'm wondering why some of our players seem to significantly tire earlier than the opposition.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on September 23, 2019, 10:52:48 AM
Quote from: Nii Lamptey on September 23, 2019, 08:10:07 AM
Also didn't like the fact that he laid blame on the players yesterday, when in reality, HE was solely to blame for yesterday's loss. A bit of honesty wouldn't go amiss?

A lot of the midfield were shot after 65 mins, yet he didn't freshen it up accordingly with Hourihane/Lansbury. You've also got to question the club's fitness training. Professional athletes shouldn't be breathing out of their arses after an hour. You may argue that the Premier League is a different ballgame, but Norwich/Sheff utd don't seem to be struggling as we are?

Really want him to succeed, but so far, he's like a rabbit caught with headlights coming straight at him. Come on Dean, sort it out!

Can only guess it's like summer 2015 transfer window, you bring plenty of players late in the window and they miss the key early weeks of pre season when you build up your core fitness and so you're playing catch up as the season goes on.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on September 23, 2019, 03:09:59 PM
Quote from: mr underhill on September 23, 2019, 09:05:14 AM
but surely, they should already  be fit?

Yes but my guess is that we have misjudged, through inexperience, exactly how fit they needed to be. From memory there were only a few teams last season who played the energetic high press (Leeds, Sheff Utd and Norwich) whereas this season nearly everyone does.

I said somewhere on a thread that its very noticeable, to me at least, how much faster the PL has got in the relatively short time we've been away.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: JUAN PABLO on September 23, 2019, 03:35:55 PM
when we gave  Elmo a new contract  I wasnt expecting him to be our new right winger . The Luiz not on the bench was a weird one , its not as he plays Henri and Conor much and Luiz was 15 million.

Id have started with Luiz and Marvellous or at least brought him on to tighten up at 2-1 .   But not to get fresh legs on is criminal.

7 pts from next 3 games please

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: JUAN PABLO on September 23, 2019, 03:41:00 PM
ps is Hause still injured?

got to be better than Taylor
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on September 23, 2019, 03:44:42 PM
The thing with Taylor is hes been absolutely fine, defensively more than decent but he does limit us so much from varying outr attacks down the left hand side.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dogtanian on September 23, 2019, 04:01:42 PM
Taylor has been a pleasant surprise this season as I think a great many of us felt the Premiership would be too much for him, I feel he has improved over last season so far.  He has his limitations, but he hasn't been the failure lots of us were expecting.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Luke8 on September 23, 2019, 04:28:34 PM
Quote from: JUAN PABLO on September 23, 2019, 03:41:00 PM
ps is Hause still injured?

got to be better than Taylor

Hause is predominately a centre back though. Taylor has been fine, but I expect Targett will be our first choice left back once he gets up to speed.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on September 23, 2019, 04:40:59 PM
Quote from: Dogtanian on September 23, 2019, 04:01:42 PM
Taylor has been a pleasant surprise this season as I think a great many of us felt the Premiership would be too much for him, I feel he has improved over last season so far.  He has his limitations, but he hasn't been the failure lots of us were expecting.
I thought Taylor was fine yesterday and Mings little nod that really should have been a row X hoof made him look bad.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on September 23, 2019, 05:29:14 PM
Quote from: Dogtanian on September 23, 2019, 04:01:42 PM
Taylor has been a pleasant surprise this season as I think a great many of us felt the Premiership would be too much for him, I feel he has improved over last season so far.  He has his limitations, but he hasn't been the failure lots of us were expecting.

He simply isn't being expected to get forward the way he was last year, so we're not seeing his lack of pace and end product highlighted so starkly. He's not getting found out as much at the back because, positionally, he's only being asked to do one job, instead of the two jobs of the modern full-back. We're just not dynamic enough to be doing what we did against lesser opposition last season, even if he was the weak link in that chain
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: JUAN PABLO on September 23, 2019, 05:29:48 PM
Quote from: Luke8 on September 23, 2019, 04:28:34 PM
Quote from: JUAN PABLO on September 23, 2019, 03:41:00 PM
ps is Hause still injured?

got to be better than Taylor

Hause is predominately a centre back though. Taylor has been fine, but I expect Targett will be our first choice left back once he gets up to speed.

lets hope  - taylor  is ok at defence but the way the team is set up we need a better left back who can get forward
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on September 23, 2019, 06:40:44 PM
I will have what you are having.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on September 23, 2019, 07:21:41 PM
Quote from: Dogtanian on September 23, 2019, 04:01:42 PM
Taylor has been a pleasant surprise this season as I think a great many of us felt the Premiership would be too much for him, I feel he has improved over last season so far.  He has his limitations, but he hasn't been the failure lots of us were expecting.

Arsenal targeted him for the first 25 minutes and got next to nothing so switched their attention to our right side. Taylor might improve if he had somebody better in front of him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mossie Hennebry on September 23, 2019, 08:37:50 PM
I hope the manager gets the full season. He got us up and assembled his own squad and should be given the opportunity to succeed with them.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on September 23, 2019, 08:40:37 PM
Quote from: Mossie Hennebry on September 23, 2019, 08:37:50 PM
I hope the manager gets the full season. He got us up and assembled his own squad and should be given the opportunity to succeed with them.

100%.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on September 23, 2019, 09:35:24 PM
Quote from: Mossie Hennebry on September 23, 2019, 08:37:50 PM
I hope the manager gets the full season. He got us up and assembled his own squad and should be given the opportunity to succeed with them.

Agree, also hope Dean and the coaches and players can get the results. I hope they can achieve
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: gpbarr on September 23, 2019, 09:44:38 PM
There is no room for sentiment in this game anymore. Having invested over $100m the owners won’t stick with him unless the results improve.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KevinGage on September 23, 2019, 10:25:11 PM
What concerns me a bit (a lot, actually) is when we were at our best last season we were dominating teams home and away and playing good football into the bargain. Now we're often content to let the opposition dictate play and hope we'll nick something on the counter.

The jump in quality is obviously huge and we've seen how sides like Bournemouth and West Ham have developed since we've been away.

But when Swansea came up under Rodgers or Eddie Howe under Bournemouth, they didn't stop playing the fundamental way that had earned them promotion in the first place.  Swansea would often dominate possession even against teams with far bigger budgets and Bournemouth have pretty much always had goals in them even if they have been shaky at the back. I don't think either of them ever took the approach of 'This is the Premier League now and we'll just sit in against sides and hope for the best.'

To run counter to the current 'Smith doesn't have a Plan B' narrative, when I heard him talk about wanting to go more direct against Everton so that Jack and SJM could feed off the scraps it sounded completely out of kilter with our approach last year.

Yesterday's performance prior to the defensive howlers wasn't that bad in all honesty. But we need to show more intent at home and against sides outside of the top 4 when the game is there to be won.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on September 23, 2019, 10:30:31 PM
Having cooled down after being totally Villad yesterday, I think we're getting better.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nunkin1965 on September 23, 2019, 11:17:23 PM
I’ve got to be honest about all this and say that we’ve actually done ok in all of the games so far.
We’ve been naive at times and clearly still have loads to work on but if we keep progressing then I’m confident that we’ll be ok this season.
It’s a results based business though and Dean Smith more than anyone and he will know he needs some.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Flin5tone on September 24, 2019, 12:33:41 AM
Let's says we lose the next 2/3 do we keep Dean or make a change, I'm of the opinion we stick with him even if we go back down but on the other hand we've spent Big so will the owners be happy to do that?

I really want it to work for Deano and be great to have a villa man as a long term manager BUT he himself needs to change he can see what we are seeing so hopefully he has learnt  from the last two games.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KevinGage on September 24, 2019, 12:41:05 AM
I don't think they'll allow him to go 10 games without a win just because he got us up.

But with the fixtures we have between now and early December we *should* be able to win three of them.

So he'll be alreet.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dogtanian on September 24, 2019, 06:49:47 AM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on September 23, 2019, 10:30:31 PM
Having cooled down after being totally Villad yesterday, I think we're getting better.

Yes, if it only took six games for players and managers to fully adapt then the Premier league would be easy.  We are improving, but more to come.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dogtanian on September 24, 2019, 06:51:28 AM
Dean Smith is the man.  He’s on a learning curve but he’s shown all his career he can step up, we are improving, and it’s to his credit that six games in we’re pissed off we didn’t beat Arsenal...
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ROBBO on September 24, 2019, 06:58:28 AM
Arsenal are touted as a top four side and we more than matched them when they had eleven on the pitch we lost the game because of errors of judgement off the pitch.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on September 24, 2019, 07:50:26 AM
What Dean Smith needs from the owners is something the previous rag bag army of Villa managers never ever got from Lerner or Xia, a very loud wake up call and a kick up the arse.  He has the potential to be a great manager but he could, without adequate concentration and focus become no better than a Sherwood with a Brummie accent.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: WarszaVillan on September 24, 2019, 07:52:12 AM
I'm actually more optimistic after Sunday. I know we messed up and we showed a lot of naivity and nervousness after going 2-1 up. But these are things I think we can sort out. We have a makings of a very decent team and I think we'll stay up this year.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy65 on September 24, 2019, 07:53:37 AM
Quote from: KevinGage on September 23, 2019, 10:25:11 PM
What concerns me a bit (a lot, actually) is when we were at our best last season we were dominating teams home and away and playing good football into the bargain. Now we're often content to let the opposition dictate play and hope we'll nick something on the counter.

The jump in quality is obviously huge and we've seen how sides like Bournemouth and West Ham have developed since we've been away.

But when Swansea came up under Rodgers or Eddie Howe under Bournemouth, they didn't stop playing the fundamental way that had earned them promotion in the first place.  Swansea would often dominate possession even against teams with far bigger budgets and Bournemouth have pretty much always had goals in them even if they have been shaky at the back. I don't think either of them ever took the approach of 'This is the Premier League now and we'll just sit in against sides and hope for the best.'

To run counter to the current 'Smith doesn't have a Plan B' narrative, when I heard him talk about wanting to go more direct against Everton so that Jack and SJM could feed off the scraps it sounded completely out of kilter with our approach last year.

Yesterday's performance prior to the defensive howlers wasn't that bad in all honesty. But we need to show more intent at home and against sides outside of the top 4 when the game is there to be won.

I thought Dean said in pre-season he would be taking the game to the opposition or something similar? He hasn’t done this but maybe it’s hit home we don’t have sufficient quality
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dogtanian on September 24, 2019, 08:06:43 AM
Quote from: brian green on September 24, 2019, 07:50:26 AM
What Dean Smith needs from the owners is something the previous rag bag army of Villa managers never ever got from Lerner or Xia, a very loud wake up call and a kick up the arse.  He has the potential to be a great manager but he could, without adequate concentration and focus become no better than a Sherwood with a Brummie accent.

I think that's a bit far, what's the poor man ever done to you?  ;D

I haven't seen anything that makes me think he isn't focused personally.  Steve Bruce is the one I always think lacks focus, he goes rubbish until the fans get on his back and then suddenly pulls a performance or a result out of the hat and then goes crap again.  What is it you've seen from Smith that makes you feel that?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: itbrvilla on September 24, 2019, 08:09:08 AM
Quote from: Rudy65 on September 24, 2019, 07:53:37 AM
Quote from: KevinGage on September 23, 2019, 10:25:11 PM
What concerns me a bit (a lot, actually) is when we were at our best last season we were dominating teams home and away and playing good football into the bargain. Now we're often content to let the opposition dictate play and hope we'll nick something on the counter.

The jump in quality is obviously huge and we've seen how sides like Bournemouth and West Ham have developed since we've been away.

But when Swansea came up under Rodgers or Eddie Howe under Bournemouth, they didn't stop playing the fundamental way that had earned them promotion in the first place.  Swansea would often dominate possession even against teams with far bigger budgets and Bournemouth have pretty much always had goals in them even if they have been shaky at the back. I don't think either of them ever took the approach of 'This is the Premier League now and we'll just sit in against sides and hope for the best.'

To run counter to the current 'Smith doesn't have a Plan B' narrative, when I heard him talk about wanting to go more direct against Everton so that Jack and SJM could feed off the scraps it sounded completely out of kilter with our approach last year.

Yesterday's performance prior to the defensive howlers wasn't that bad in all honesty. But we need to show more intent at home and against sides outside of the top 4 when the game is there to be won.

I thought Dean said in pre-season he would be taking the game to the opposition or something similar? He hasn’t done this but maybe it’s hit home we don’t have sufficient quality
yet Norwich and Sheffield United appear to be doing a better job.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: manic-road on September 24, 2019, 08:14:02 AM
Just shows how far Dean has taken us in less than a year, having left Arsenal disappointed not to have won.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dogtanian on September 24, 2019, 08:15:35 AM
Quote from: itbrvilla on September 24, 2019, 08:09:08 AM
Quote from: Rudy65 on September 24, 2019, 07:53:37 AM
Quote from: KevinGage on September 23, 2019, 10:25:11 PM
What concerns me a bit (a lot, actually) is when we were at our best last season we were dominating teams home and away and playing good football into the bargain. Now we're often content to let the opposition dictate play and hope we'll nick something on the counter.

The jump in quality is obviously huge and we've seen how sides like Bournemouth and West Ham have developed since we've been away.

But when Swansea came up under Rodgers or Eddie Howe under Bournemouth, they didn't stop playing the fundamental way that had earned them promotion in the first place.  Swansea would often dominate possession even against teams with far bigger budgets and Bournemouth have pretty much always had goals in them even if they have been shaky at the back. I don't think either of them ever took the approach of 'This is the Premier League now and we'll just sit in against sides and hope for the best.'

To run counter to the current 'Smith doesn't have a Plan B' narrative, when I heard him talk about wanting to go more direct against Everton so that Jack and SJM could feed off the scraps it sounded completely out of kilter with our approach last year.

Yesterday's performance prior to the defensive howlers wasn't that bad in all honesty. But we need to show more intent at home and against sides outside of the top 4 when the game is there to be won.

I thought Dean said in pre-season he would be taking the game to the opposition or something similar? He hasn’t done this but maybe it’s hit home we don’t have sufficient quality
yet Norwich and Sheffield United appear to be doing a better job.

Neither Norwich or the Blades had to rebuild their squads from the bare bones over the last three months and both clubs started with a better performing first team than us anyway.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on September 24, 2019, 08:24:40 AM
I think he needs to be a bit more savvy with his substitutions and find another way to get us playing other than his tried and trusted 4-3-3 but I'm happy with him. I personally hope he's here for the long haul.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: nigel on September 24, 2019, 08:28:19 AM
Quote from: itbrvilla on September 24, 2019, 08:09:08 AM
Quote from: Rudy65 on September 24, 2019, 07:53:37 AM
Quote from: KevinGage on September 23, 2019, 10:25:11 PM
What concerns me a bit (a lot, actually) is when we were at our best last season we were dominating teams home and away and playing good football into the bargain. Now we're often content to let the opposition dictate play and hope we'll nick something on the counter.

The jump in quality is obviously huge and we've seen how sides like Bournemouth and West Ham have developed since we've been away.

But when Swansea came up under Rodgers or Eddie Howe under Bournemouth, they didn't stop playing the fundamental way that had earned them promotion in the first place.  Swansea would often dominate possession even against teams with far bigger budgets and Bournemouth have pretty much always had goals in them even if they have been shaky at the back. I don't think either of them ever took the approach of 'This is the Premier League now and we'll just sit in against sides and hope for the best.'

To run counter to the current 'Smith doesn't have a Plan B' narrative, when I heard him talk about wanting to go more direct against Everton so that Jack and SJM could feed off the scraps it sounded completely out of kilter with our approach last year.

Yesterday's performance prior to the defensive howlers wasn't that bad in all honesty. But we need to show more intent at home and against sides outside of the top 4 when the game is there to be won.

I thought Dean said in pre-season he would be taking the game to the opposition or something similar? He hasn’t done this but maybe it’s hit home we don’t have sufficient quality
yet Norwich and Sheffield United appear to be doing a better job.

These two were head and shoulders the best two teams in the Championship, and are settled teams with only one or two additions. However, I've a feeling one, or both, could be found out soon.
We, on the other hand, finished fifth and have, virtually, a complete new team to gel together.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Axl Rose on September 24, 2019, 08:31:06 AM
Quote from: Clampy on September 24, 2019, 08:24:40 AM
I think he needs to be a bit more savvy with his substitutions and find another way to get us playing other than his tried and trusted 4-3-3 but I'm happy with him. I personally hope he's here for the long haul.

Exactly the same as I feel, Clampy.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Luke8 on September 24, 2019, 08:34:03 AM
Exactly. They have had both mangers and players in place over a far greater period of time to be able to shape a squad and system to how they want to play.

And besides, it’s such a small sample size for comparisons at this stage. Take Norwich, you could look at their games against Chelsea and obviously Man City and be really impressed by how they play (and the result). Yet, they have also been comfortable beaten by both West Ham and Burnley.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on September 24, 2019, 08:37:24 AM
I honestly have every faith that recent pages of this thread will age very badly indeed.

Dean is the man to keep us up. It might be by a hair's breadth but that won't always be his fault either, sometimes you get the luck and the decisions and sometimes you don't.

We're not going to steamroll anyone in this league because frankly only the really quality teams do that, and we're still building. The fact that we almost got something off Arsenal away is significant.

Think we'll be okay.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dogtanian on September 24, 2019, 08:37:33 AM
I do think Norwich will be relegated, to be honest.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Deano's Mullet on September 24, 2019, 09:08:55 AM
Quote from: Dogtanian on September 24, 2019, 08:37:33 AM
I do think Norwich will be relegated, to be honest.

I dont. I wouldnt be surprised if both Sheff United and Norwich survive - for one season at the very least.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dogtanian on September 24, 2019, 09:14:45 AM
Quote from: Deano's Mullet on September 24, 2019, 09:08:55 AM
Quote from: Dogtanian on September 24, 2019, 08:37:33 AM
I do think Norwich will be relegated, to be honest.

I dont. I wouldnt be surprised if both Sheff United and Norwich survive - for one season at the very least.

Quite happy to be wrong, would be nice to see a club spend so little and survive.  Unfortunately, only two newly promoted clubs in 15 years have spent very little and survived their first season in the Premier League.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Monty on September 24, 2019, 09:23:17 AM
Quote from: Dogtanian on September 24, 2019, 09:14:45 AM
Quote from: Deano's Mullet on September 24, 2019, 09:08:55 AM
Quote from: Dogtanian on September 24, 2019, 08:37:33 AM
I do think Norwich will be relegated, to be honest.

I dont. I wouldnt be surprised if both Sheff United and Norwich survive - for one season at the very least.

Quite happy to be wrong, would be nice to see a club spend so little and survive.  Unfortunately, only two newly promoted clubs in 15 years have spent very little and survived their first season in the Premier League.

That really doesn't mean it can't become only 3 from 16. Norwich look settled and competitive and so far their goalscorer has really come through. They look much better than us right now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dogtanian on September 24, 2019, 09:24:22 AM
Quote from: Monty on September 24, 2019, 09:23:17 AM
Quote from: Dogtanian on September 24, 2019, 09:14:45 AM
Quote from: Deano's Mullet on September 24, 2019, 09:08:55 AM
Quote from: Dogtanian on September 24, 2019, 08:37:33 AM
I do think Norwich will be relegated, to be honest.

I dont. I wouldnt be surprised if both Sheff United and Norwich survive - for one season at the very least.

Quite happy to be wrong, would be nice to see a club spend so little and survive.  Unfortunately, only two newly promoted clubs in 15 years have spent very little and survived their first season in the Premier League.

That really doesn't mean it can't become only 3 from 16. Norwich look settled and competitive and so far their goalscorer has really come through. They look much better than us right now.

I never said it couldn't and I hope it does.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Deano's Mullet on September 24, 2019, 09:24:52 AM
Quote from: Monty on September 24, 2019, 09:23:17 AM
Quote from: Dogtanian on September 24, 2019, 09:14:45 AM
Quote from: Deano's Mullet on September 24, 2019, 09:08:55 AM
Quote from: Dogtanian on September 24, 2019, 08:37:33 AM
I do think Norwich will be relegated, to be honest.

I think you can say the same about Sheffield United - and lets not forget both teams finished above us last season and i think we only gained one point from the twelve available against them.

I dont. I wouldnt be surprised if both Sheff United and Norwich survive - for one season at the very least.

Quite happy to be wrong, would be nice to see a club spend so little and survive.  Unfortunately, only two newly promoted clubs in 15 years have spent very little and survived their first season in the Premier League.

That really doesn't mean it can't become only 3 from 16. Norwich look settled and competitive and so far their goalscorer has really come through. They look much better than us right now.


I think you can say the same about Sheffield United - and lets not forget both teams finished above us last season and i think we only gained one point from the twelve available against them.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: danno on September 24, 2019, 09:38:26 AM
Norwich and Sheffield United might survive, but we've all seen it before with teams like Blackpool and Hull that a good start by a promoted team doesn't mean a good finish.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dogtanian on September 24, 2019, 09:56:47 AM
Quote from: danno on September 24, 2019, 09:38:26 AM
Norwich and Sheffield United might survive, but we've all seen it before with teams like Blackpool and Hull that a good start by a promoted team doesn't mean a good finish.

It's a long, hard season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mossie Hennebry on September 24, 2019, 10:10:02 AM
He certainly has a tough job on his hands, but I sincerely hope that he is given the time to do it. Hopefully there are three teams worse than us and he gets time next pre-season to improve things again. We fell a long way down and it will take time to acclimatise to this league.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Luke8 on September 24, 2019, 10:13:59 AM
I actually think there is a reasonable chance that all three promoted sides could stay up.

I think you could make a group of the three promoted teams and probably at least four or five other teams where there isn’t a huge amount of different in quality in either the playing squad or manager.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 24, 2019, 11:01:31 AM
Quote from: Axl Rose on September 24, 2019, 08:31:06 AM
Quote from: Clampy on September 24, 2019, 08:24:40 AM
I think he needs to be a bit more savvy with his substitutions and find another way to get us playing other than his tried and trusted 4-3-3 but I'm happy with him. I personally hope he's here for the long haul.

Exactly the same as I feel, Clampy.

I’d agree those are the two key areas to address.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on September 24, 2019, 11:13:59 AM
Quote from: Dogtanian on September 24, 2019, 08:37:33 AM
I do think Norwich will be relegated, to be honest.
Agreed. They will have a few spectacular wins but mostly lose their games as they go along. I expect them to be settled in bottom 3 by Xmas.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OzVilla on September 24, 2019, 12:22:03 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on September 24, 2019, 11:01:31 AM
Quote from: Axl Rose on September 24, 2019, 08:31:06 AM
Quote from: Clampy on September 24, 2019, 08:24:40 AM
I think he needs to be a bit more savvy with his substitutions and find another way to get us playing other than his tried and trusted 4-3-3 but I'm happy with him. I personally hope he's here for the long haul.

Exactly the same as I feel, Clampy.

I’d agree those are the two key areas to address.

I like Smith too and want him here for the long term but surely substitutions and formations are THE areas where a manager earns their wage, it’s where they turn draws into wins or defeats into draws. It’s what separates the good from the average.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on September 24, 2019, 12:29:20 PM
I'm as frustrated as anyone that we've only got 1 win under the belt but seriously what did people expect? It's 6 games. We've competed for decent spells in every one so far.

It's still September. Plenty of other decent teams have struggled to puts points on the board too. Can we see where things lie after the next 3 (winnable) games? Maybe then people will have cause for concern, or be pleasantly surprised by where we're sitting in the table afterwards.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Hookeysmith on September 24, 2019, 06:35:08 PM
I personally love the bloke and hope We can get a few back to back wins to ease the pressure that is I inevitably growing on him.

He is a new manager in this league with a relatively new team.

Although he must take the blame for Sunday I  have seen enough to think we will be ok

We could do with a rub of the VAR green though
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on September 24, 2019, 08:40:38 PM
Quote from: Luke8 on September 24, 2019, 10:13:59 AM
I actually think there is a reasonable chance that all three promoted sides could stay up.

I think you could make a group of the three promoted teams and probably at least four or five other teams where there isn’t a huge amount of different in quality in either the playing squad or manager.

Big time, Newcastle, Palace, Watford, Brighton, Southampton are all bang average.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on September 24, 2019, 10:01:24 PM
I am sure it will be addressed.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Richard on September 24, 2019, 10:24:34 PM
As long as we don't stay stationery in the table we will be fine under Smith
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mossie Hennebry on September 24, 2019, 10:46:29 PM
He's got to put his stamp on this team.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on September 24, 2019, 11:09:40 PM
Quote from: Richard on September 24, 2019, 10:24:34 PM
As long as we don't stay stationery in the table we will be fine under Smith

Fair play to you. If you believe it, post-it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ROBBO on September 24, 2019, 11:38:13 PM
The next league game will tell the story if the players come out perform well and win the game the short term pressure subsides but lose and the panic buttons will be pressed.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: algy on September 25, 2019, 06:36:41 AM
Quote from: Mossie Hennebry on September 24, 2019, 10:46:29 PM
He's got to put his stamp on this team.
A frank assessment
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on September 25, 2019, 08:01:49 AM
Quote from: algy on September 25, 2019, 06:36:41 AM
Quote from: Mossie Hennebry on September 24, 2019, 10:46:29 PM
He's got to put his stamp on this team.
A frank assessment
endorsed.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Border villan on September 25, 2019, 09:26:14 AM
Quote from: Mister E on September 25, 2019, 08:01:49 AM
Quote from: algy on September 25, 2019, 06:36:41 AM
Quote from: Mossie Hennebry on September 24, 2019, 10:46:29 PM
He's got to put his stamp on this team.
A frank assessment
endorsed.
Good posting.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sid1964 on September 25, 2019, 09:35:22 AM
lets hope for a first class performance tonight.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave shelley on September 25, 2019, 09:46:06 AM
I phil-ately refuse to accept he is not fit for the job.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on September 25, 2019, 11:21:01 AM
Quote from: brontebilly on September 24, 2019, 08:40:38 PM
Quote from: Luke8 on September 24, 2019, 10:13:59 AM
I actually think there is a reasonable chance that all three promoted sides could stay up.

I think you could make a group of the three promoted teams and probably at least four or five other teams where there isn’t a huge amount of different in quality in either the playing squad or manager.

Big time, Newcastle, Palace, Watford, Brighton, Southampton are all bang average.


Every season one team who you thought were at least half decent and comfortably established in the Premier league struggles. This year it looks like being Watford. Newcastle are not very good and Palace don't offer much apart from Zaha. Brighton will probably struggle again but I think Southampton will be okay. I fancy Sheffield United to have a better season than Norwich because Norwich concede a lot of goals (even last season) whereas Sheffield United are quite solid and don't concede so many.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Luke8 on September 25, 2019, 02:24:32 PM
I just personally don’t think we will see a season where you have you have one (or sometimes two) teams that are very obviously cut a drift at the bottom like you quite regularly do e.g Huddersfield, Sunderland, us (sadly)

You’ve only really got two teams that you would comfortably back to win the majority of their games now (compared to four or five not so long ago) which is think will make the rest of the league more tightly contested in general, but also lead to a group of about six or seven teams the will end of battling pretty closely against relegation.

Also, in regards to established teams struggling, Everton have a pretty low key poor start to the season given their (presumably quite high) aspirations and the opposition they have faced so far.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 27, 2019, 06:00:58 PM
Can’t agree with Dean that in the 8 games we’ve played “only Tottenham have been better than us”. Might have been phraseology, but I think we’ve had good spells on games but also been really poor at stages of most games.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on September 27, 2019, 06:12:35 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on September 27, 2019, 06:00:58 PM
Can’t agree with Dean that in the 8 games we’ve played “only Tottenham have been better than us”. Might have been phraseology, but I think we’ve had good spells on games but also been really poor at stages of most games.

It sounds like you are agreeing with him to me. We've been on top for a bit and the opposition have been on top for a bit is a great way of saying there wasn't much between the teams. It was true agianst Tottenham for a long time as well, with Eriksen being the only meaningful difference between us (in my opinion).
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Luke8 on September 27, 2019, 07:38:55 PM
Guess you could say it was two poor teams (or performances at least) so maybe fairly even, but I think it would be difficult to argue that we had a spell in the Palace game where we were the dominant team.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Holy Trinity on September 28, 2019, 04:59:01 PM
I like Dean but he is out of his depth and we cant fanny around much longer before we have to look at his position.

There are plenty of managers around the world who play Dean's brand of football but have tactical nous and a plan B. Today is the first time since hes been here that I have totally lost hope that he is the one for us.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on September 28, 2019, 05:07:48 PM
He's really struggling with his in game management at this level.

At this point John Terry needs to step in a bit more I think. He played under world class managers at Chelsea and they certainly weren't slow in making changes (remember Mourinho making a double change after 20 minutes in a game Chelsea started poorly).

Points in winnable games are slipping through our grasp because we're so slow to react.

Of course DS has final decision but Terry needs to be in his ear when opposition are having sustained spell as Burnley were at start of second. He is the one who has dined at the very top level after all at this club.

Anyway don't win either of our next two and you're very very likely looking at late November before the chance of another win. Can't see owners being impressed with that considering we had a pretty kind start to the season with teams we've played so far.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: DB on September 28, 2019, 05:10:22 PM
If it carries in, I can see a change before Christmas
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on September 28, 2019, 05:13:02 PM
I like him but he really needs to start learning from this stuff continually happening before it's too late.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on September 28, 2019, 05:17:27 PM
Love the guy but he’s not stepping up and his demeanour is changing in slightly worrying ways. I think, sadly, he’s giving the owners reasons to roll the dice. I still hope he sorts it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 28, 2019, 05:21:40 PM
It’s becoming apparent that he is either far too slow to react or doesn’t react at all when teams get on top of us. He needs to sort that fast or we’ll go down.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on September 28, 2019, 05:40:17 PM
Quote from: themossman on September 28, 2019, 05:17:27 PM
Love the guy but he’s not stepping up and his demeanour is changing in slightly worrying ways. I think, sadly, he’s giving the owners reasons to roll the dice. I still hope he sorts it.

Needs a minimum of 3/4 points from next two games to steady the ship

Liverpool/Man City back to back could be very painful and have us firmly in bottom three.

Wolves then before the international break.

He is fighting for his job for me
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AlexAlexCropley on September 28, 2019, 05:57:47 PM
Certain players in certain positions are not good enough at this level. No amount of clever coaching and traps is going to change that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on September 28, 2019, 06:12:43 PM
A few more games and he’s going to be under real pressure I think, he’s just not learning from his mistakes.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on September 28, 2019, 06:15:51 PM
Quote from: AlexAlexCropley on September 28, 2019, 05:57:47 PM
Certain players in certain positions are not good enough at this level. No amount of clever coaching and traps is going to change that.

Which ones?

He bought Wesley, Trez and Jota.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: andyh on September 28, 2019, 06:18:46 PM
We are a young, inexperienced team at this level, with an inexperienced, at this level, manager.

It could all turn to shit.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: DB on September 28, 2019, 06:20:13 PM
Quote from: Risso on September 28, 2019, 06:12:43 PM
A few more games and he’s going to be under real pressure I think, he’s just not learning from his mistakes.
Agreed. The owners I don't think will hang around
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: andrew08 on September 28, 2019, 06:22:11 PM
Quote from: brontebilly on September 28, 2019, 06:15:51 PM
Quote from: AlexAlexCropley on September 28, 2019, 05:57:47 PM
Certain players in certain positions are not good enough at this level. No amount of clever coaching and traps is going to change that.

Which ones?

He bought Wesley, Trez and Jota.

I don’t think he did, he’s The Head Coach, in charge of organising the players he’s given. The permanent Chief Scout and Chief Executive lead the recruitment policy.

That said I hope Smith stays even through relegation if it happens... we got promoted too soon really and we just need to survive while still implementing an overall style of play.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on September 28, 2019, 06:22:35 PM
He’s the right man, his lack of experience is showing but we’ll come good.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on September 28, 2019, 06:24:22 PM
Quote from: PeterWithe on September 28, 2019, 06:22:35 PM
He’s the right man, his lack of experience is showing but we’ll come good.



This for me.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on September 28, 2019, 06:30:31 PM
Quote from: Legion on September 28, 2019, 06:24:22 PM
Quote from: PeterWithe on September 28, 2019, 06:22:35 PM
He’s the right man, his lack of experience is showing but we’ll come good.



This for me.

X3
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on September 28, 2019, 06:30:44 PM
Dean could have gone down the route of getting a load of seasoned PL players, or a mix of youth and experience, but he went for promising but untested players.  Which was brave, but at the moment looks the wrong choice.  We're so naive and concede sloppy goals at crucial moments.  And Dean doesn't react as he should.

We can look at Burnley and say we're glad we don't play their way but we need some of their nous.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lsvilla on September 28, 2019, 06:31:57 PM
Quote from: Drummond on September 28, 2019, 06:30:31 PM
Quote from: Legion on September 28, 2019, 06:24:22 PM
Quote from: PeterWithe on September 28, 2019, 06:22:35 PM
He’s the right man, his lack of experience is showing but we’ll come good.



This for me.

X3
And for me.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AlexAlexCropley on September 28, 2019, 06:34:17 PM
Quote from: brontebilly on September 28, 2019, 06:15:51 PM
Quote from: AlexAlexCropley on September 28, 2019, 05:57:47 PM
Certain players in certain positions are not good enough at this level. No amount of clever coaching and traps is going to change that.

Which ones?

He bought Wesley, Trez and Jota.
El Ghazi, Wes (atm),Taylor, CH. OK?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: West Derby Villan on September 28, 2019, 08:15:56 PM
Quote from: Lsvilla on September 28, 2019, 06:31:57 PM
Quote from: Drummond on September 28, 2019, 06:30:31 PM
Quote from: Legion on September 28, 2019, 06:24:22 PM
Quote from: PeterWithe on September 28, 2019, 06:22:35 PM
He’s the right man, his lack of experience is showing but we’ll come good.



This for me.

X3
And for me.

And me
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Flin5tone on September 28, 2019, 08:28:02 PM
I heard my first 'smiff awt' leaving the ground today
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Deano's Mullet on September 28, 2019, 08:28:17 PM
Me too
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on September 28, 2019, 08:31:19 PM
Quote from: Flin5tone on September 28, 2019, 08:28:02 PM
I heard my first 'smiff awt' leaving the ground today

That’s bloody silly, but we have to see games like this out and the 3 points we deserved, but again we didn’t
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on September 28, 2019, 08:45:40 PM
Nothing is going to happen to Dean this side of Christmas, and eve then i think he'd have to royally fuck up as in only winning one or two PL games, before the owners would act. But everyone is right - we are losing too many points from winning positions and somehow, he has to find a way to make that stop.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dogtanian on September 28, 2019, 08:47:30 PM
Quote from: AlexAlexCropley on September 28, 2019, 06:34:17 PM
Quote from: brontebilly on September 28, 2019, 06:15:51 PM
Quote from: AlexAlexCropley on September 28, 2019, 05:57:47 PM
Certain players in certain positions are not good enough at this level. No amount of clever coaching and traps is going to change that.

Which ones?

He bought Wesley, Trez and Jota.
El Ghazi, Wes (atm),Taylor, CH. OK?

What are we expecting of El Ghazi?  Two goals and one assist in 5 starts and a 13 minute sub appearance for a Prem newbie is not bad.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on September 28, 2019, 08:59:00 PM
Quote from: mr underhill on September 28, 2019, 08:45:40 PM
Nothing is going to happen to Dean this side of Christmas, and eve then i think he'd have to royally fuck up as in only winning one or two PL games, before the owners would act. But everyone is right - we are losing too many points from winning positions and somehow, he has to find a way to make that stop.

👍
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KevinGage on September 28, 2019, 09:08:13 PM
Quote from: Flin5tone on September 28, 2019, 08:28:02 PM
I heard my first 'smiff awt' leaving the ground today

Only into September, impressive.

Little over a month since Everton at home. Which was compared to Inter Milan 1990 and other memorable floodlight occasions by some.

He's not untouchable but he needs a run of games with so many newcomers stepping into the equation.

I did earmark this as one we needed to win (which I'm sure many did).  If we can pull out some unexpected wins on the road to balance this out we'll be fine.

One thing seems clear though: unlike the Championship, I don't think we'll win one and then 3-4 on the bounce. So when we get any advantage like last week we really need to make it count.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on September 28, 2019, 09:09:19 PM
Quote from: Flin5tone on September 28, 2019, 08:28:02 PM
I heard my first 'smiff awt' leaving the ground today

Idiot(s).
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on September 28, 2019, 09:35:27 PM
I believe he'll keep us up but beyond that I don't know.  Regardless of his ability, he hasn't got the players to do much more than that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ROBBO on September 28, 2019, 10:10:49 PM
He can't keep playing Wesley.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on September 28, 2019, 11:01:11 PM
He will though.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brassneck on September 28, 2019, 11:08:38 PM
Quote from: Risso on September 28, 2019, 11:01:11 PM
He will though.

And therein lies the problem.  DS has stuck up for Wesley recently and claimed that it's far too early to pass judgement.  I think it's clear to most that the lad is a million miles off PL standard and is not going to improve anywhere near to what is needed.  We played today without a striker - Imagine what we'd have done with Keenan on the pitch for 90 minutes?  He did more in his cameo appearance than Wesley did in 88 minutes.

DS has been happy to drop other players (Luiz, Taylor for example).  Neither has been anywhere near as appallingly woeful as Wesley has - I suspect that DS will stick with Wesley due to his previous comments, to the point of being stubborn.  He won't be the first manager to do so and he won't be the last.  It seems like we're playing with 10 men for most of the time.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on September 28, 2019, 11:17:50 PM
I don't think Wesley is a million miles off but he needs a big attitude adjustment.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on September 28, 2019, 11:25:25 PM
We can’t keep changing coaches every year.  Even if we go down he gets my vote.  He’s either the Vic Crowe or Ron Saunders of this era.  Either way I would feel sad if he left.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on September 28, 2019, 11:35:50 PM
Something I've been mulling over. With the way we (try to) play and the players we're using to implement it, do we need a centre-forward?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on September 28, 2019, 11:52:54 PM
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on September 28, 2019, 11:35:50 PM
Something I've been mulling over. With the way we (try to) play and the players we're using to implement it, do we need a centre-forward?


Could someone like Jack or SJM perform the 'false number nine' role? We certainly aren't getting the best out of Jack at the moment.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: danno on September 28, 2019, 11:57:03 PM
Quote from: Brassneck on September 28, 2019, 11:08:38 PM
Quote from: Risso on September 28, 2019, 11:01:11 PM
He will though.

And therein lies the problem.  DS has stuck up for Wesley recently and claimed that it's far too early to pass judgement.

It is too early to pass judgement. De Gea joined the (then) champions and looked shaky for 6 months, Petrov joined us and took ages to really get going. Bale almost joined small heath, Shearer scored a hat trick on his debut then had a real dry spell. Am sure older posters can reel off far better examples.

He's in a new league, new country, in a team full of new players (either new to this league or to this club), playing as a lone striker, in a team that don't fashion many chances.

Seven games is too early to pass judgement, and fwiw (not much) he also has just as many goals to his name as mister "we should have signed" Maupay.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on September 28, 2019, 11:58:52 PM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on September 28, 2019, 11:25:25 PM
We can’t keep changing coaches every year.  Even if we go down he gets my vote.  He’s either the Vic Crowe or Ron Saunders of this era.  Either way I would feel sad if he left.

Agreed. He has to improve though and he has to hold himself to the high standard he expects of his players. Yes the players made mistakes. It wasn't Dean's fault that we completely switched off after we scored. But that said the accountability isn't just on the players. The PL has no mercy rule and even the so called 'smaller' sides who have been there for many years now have just become more clever at seeing out games or picking up points to get themselves to 40. We need to learn that. That we have been in the lead or that we've thrown away so many points from positions where we should have got something is a big silver lining in a grim looking cloud.

I just watched Chris Wilder give a very blunt interview after their loss earlier in the day to Liverpool and it sounded very much like Dean after Arsenal. Players are pros they have to do better and silly mistakes or mental errors are so costly. The manager has a big role but the players need to get wise quickly.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tomd2103 on September 29, 2019, 12:08:54 AM
Thought he was a bit late to react to the change Burnley made at half-time.  They went to a three in midfield, with Westwood dropping a bit deeper and we didn't push anyone on to him.  Not a massive sea change, but it allowed Burnley to just get a bit more of a foot hold in the game. 

His lack of willingness /awareness to make changes during games is becoming a bit if a concern. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on September 29, 2019, 12:09:05 AM
Rightly or wrongly people start passing judgement as soon as a ball is kicked at the start of the season, or even during pre season. I have seen enough so far not to panic, but that doesn't mean I don't have concerns. I would be very concerned if there were doubts about the managers future at this stage when we seem to have gone to great lengths to get the structure of the club right. Owners, chief exec, director of football, head coach, assistant.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brassneck on September 29, 2019, 12:10:34 AM
Quote from: danno on September 28, 2019, 11:57:03 PM
Quote from: Brassneck on September 28, 2019, 11:08:38 PM
Quote from: Risso on September 28, 2019, 11:01:11 PM
He will though.

And therein lies the problem.  DS has stuck up for Wesley recently and claimed that it's far too early to pass judgement.

It is too early to pass judgement. De Gea joined the (then) champions and looked shaky for 6 months, Petrov joined us and took ages to really get going. Bale almost joined small heath, Shearer scored a hat trick on his debut then had a real dry spell. Am sure older posters can reel off far better examples.

He's in a new league, new country, in a team full of new players (either new to this league or to this club), playing as a lone striker, in a team that don't fashion many chances.

Seven games is too early to pass judgement, and fwiw (not much) he also has just as many goals to his name as mister "we should have signed" Maupay.

Is it too early to drop him as well?

Personally, I've seen enough to know that he's never going to make it at this level - There is absolutely nothing positive to say about todays performance and it's not the first time.  Would you expect to play next week if you'd put in a performance like that?

Judging him is not the issue - It's whether he should start next week.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on September 29, 2019, 12:12:12 AM
Quote from: Brassneck on September 29, 2019, 12:10:34 AM
Quote from: danno on September 28, 2019, 11:57:03 PM
Quote from: Brassneck on September 28, 2019, 11:08:38 PM
Quote from: Risso on September 28, 2019, 11:01:11 PM
He will though.

And therein lies the problem.  DS has stuck up for Wesley recently and claimed that it's far too early to pass judgement.

It is too early to pass judgement. De Gea joined the (then) champions and looked shaky for 6 months, Petrov joined us and took ages to really get going. Bale almost joined small heath, Shearer scored a hat trick on his debut then had a real dry spell. Am sure older posters can reel off far better examples.

He's in a new league, new country, in a team full of new players (either new to this league or to this club), playing as a lone striker, in a team that don't fashion many chances.

Seven games is too early to pass judgement, and fwiw (not much) he also has just as many goals to his name as mister "we should have signed" Maupay.

Is it too early to drop him as well?

Personally, I've seen enough to know that he's never going to make it at this level - There is absolutely nothing positive to say about todays performance and it's not the first time.  Would you expect to play next week if you'd put in a performance like that?

Judging him is not the issue - It's whether he should start next week.
Exactly how I see it, we might as well play Hogan.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tomd2103 on September 29, 2019, 12:18:47 AM
Quote from: Damo70 on September 29, 2019, 12:09:05 AM
Rightly or wrongly people start passing judgement as soon as a ball is kicked at the start of the season, or even during pre season. I have seen enough so far not to panic, but that doesn't mean I don't have concerns. I would be very concerned if there were doubts about the managers future at this stage when we seem to have gone to great lengths to get the structure of the club right. Owners, chief exec, director of football, head coach, assistant.

We have been competitive in games Damo and I think it is too early to have major concerns at this point.  There do, however, seem to some patterns emerging from both players and the coaching staff even this early on which need to be fixed. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: danno on September 29, 2019, 12:25:14 AM
Of course its not too early to drop him, if we think Davis will do better.

But to definitively say any player anywhere is going to be a superstar or a flop after seven games is mental.

Xhaka at Arsenal was scouted 30 times and they still signed him! They're obviously taking the piss, if it's possible to know someone is never going to cut it after seven games.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on September 29, 2019, 12:29:35 AM
Quote from: danno on September 29, 2019, 12:25:14 AM
Of course its not too early to drop him, if we think Davis will do better.

But to definitively say any player anywhere is going to be a superstar or a flop after seven games is mental.

Xhaka at Arsenal was scouted 30 times and they still signed him! They're obviously taking the piss, if it's possible to know someone is never going to cut it after seven games.
It took less to work out Tonev and Hogan.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on September 29, 2019, 12:29:42 AM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on September 28, 2019, 11:25:25 PM
We can’t keep changing coaches every year.  Even if we go down he gets my vote.  He’s either the Vic Crowe or Ron Saunders of this era.  Either way I would feel sad if he left.
This. I believe even if we are relegated Smith should stay.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on September 29, 2019, 12:31:27 AM
Quote from: olaftab on September 29, 2019, 12:29:42 AM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on September 28, 2019, 11:25:25 PM
We can’t keep changing coaches every year.  Even if we go down he gets my vote.  He’s either the Vic Crowe or Ron Saunders of this era.  Either way I would feel sad if he left.
This. I believe even if we are relegated Smith should stay.
I don’t think anyone is saying get rid.
There are some very worrying signs though.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 29, 2019, 12:48:29 AM
Quote from: olaftab on September 29, 2019, 12:29:42 AM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on September 28, 2019, 11:25:25 PM
We can’t keep changing coaches every year.  Even if we go down he gets my vote.  He’s either the Vic Crowe or Ron Saunders of this era.  Either way I would feel sad if he left.
This. I believe even if we are relegated Smith should stay.

I like Dean, but I think a judgement either way on that is way too early. If we go down having shown progression and a clear path to improvement then yes he should stay. If we go down because we repeat the same mistakes every week resulting in us throwing points away he absolutely shouldn’t stay.

It’s in Dean’s hands and I want him to stay, but he doesn’t have a free pass. He has to show he’s the right man.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on September 29, 2019, 01:23:16 AM
Quote from: olaftab on September 29, 2019, 12:29:42 AM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on September 28, 2019, 11:25:25 PM
We can’t keep changing coaches every year.  Even if we go down he gets my vote.  He’s either the Vic Crowe or Ron Saunders of this era.  Either way I would feel sad if he left.
This. I believe even if we are relegated Smith should stay.
We’re exciting, we play some excellent football and we are learning all the time. I’m
Very confident over the course of a season we will be fine. Not worried one bit/
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: garyfouroaks on September 29, 2019, 05:12:36 AM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on September 28, 2019, 11:25:25 PM
We can’t keep changing coaches every year.  Even if we go down he gets my vote.  He’s either the Vic Crowe or Ron Saunders of this era.  Either way I would feel sad if he left.
The Board invested huge sums in the club this summer. If it looks like a relegation battle at Christmas, Smith is toast.

The Villa manager's job is not part of a job opportunity scheme. Managing in the PL , and surviving, is a different job to securing promotion from the Champ. Whether Smith has that skill remains to be seen.

We were the fifth best team in the Champ last year. We have bought an entire new team's worth of players. Putting out a competitive PL side from that is no easy task. Is it one Smith is up to?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OzVilla on September 29, 2019, 06:56:10 AM
The unfortunate fact is that Smith is being consistently out coached in the first 7 games. Up against 10 men twice and in the lead on three occasions with less than 15 mins left and we’ve returned 2 points from those 4 games. That’s been the biggest surprise for me so far this season and the biggest disappointment.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villafirst on September 29, 2019, 07:03:28 AM
I remember in February people wanted Dean out when results weren't great. We need to stick with him, the team is gradually gelling and we look equal to most teams.
He needs to ditch Taylor and Wesley for now. Put Hause at LB and give Davis a go up front - he will hold the ball up better in my opinion and bring others into play.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: JJ-AV on September 29, 2019, 07:32:13 AM
Smith has made some mistakes but I think fundamentally the recruitment of Wes and Trezeguet has been the biggest issue.

Had we signed Tammy back we'd probably be sitting in the top half now.

You're not going to get them all right. Trez looked impactful during his cameo yesterday and Wes does have some quality, so there are positives - but it is pretty concerning.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: JJ-AV on September 29, 2019, 07:35:22 AM
Quote from: OzVilla on September 29, 2019, 06:56:10 AM
The unfortunate fact is that Smith is being consistently out coached in the first 7 games. Up against 10 men twice and in the lead on three occasions with less than 15 mins left and we’ve returned 2 points from those 4 games. That’s been the biggest surprise for me so far this season and the biggest disappointment.

But what is he supposed to do when the forwards haven't been good enough?

The majority of our big chances this season have fallen to Anwar, Jack and John. That's because Trezeguet and Wesley haven't been up to it. While I'm sure he was involved in their signing (particularly Trezeguet), he is not a recruiter and those two have been the ones to cost us points.

It's individual errors and I don't think you can blame the coach for that. We are generally playing well and causing teams problems.

Our big signings to score us the goals have been from Turkey and Belgium and are taking time. To compare them to the other foreign lads, if they'd have come in and played to the level that Engels*, Nakamba or Guilbert have then we'd have a few more points on the board.

*Although the past two games Engels has made some massive errors, generally I'd say his level has been adequate so far
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dogtanian on September 29, 2019, 08:01:08 AM
Quote from: JJ-AV on September 29, 2019, 07:32:13 AM
Smith has made some mistakes but I think fundamentally the recruitment of Wes and Trezeguet has been the biggest issue.

Had we signed Tammy back we'd probably be sitting in the top half now.

You're not going to get them all right. Trez looked impactful during his cameo yesterday and Wes does have some quality, so there are positives - but it is pretty concerning.

Tammy was never on the cards.  He wanted to jump ship in January, he didn’t want to join us in the summer as he wanted to fight for a place at Chelsea, Lampard had seen what he could do last season and so wanted him in his side a Chelsea, and Chelsea couldn’t get any new strikers in even if they wanted to.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KRS on September 29, 2019, 08:16:51 AM
Patience and support is needed. Dean did an excellent job getting us promoted last season having inherited a dysfunctional team, and this season he is trying to gel a relatively new team with some players having little or no Premier League experience at all. Some of the new signings aren’t performing as well as expected and Dean shouldn’t be taking the full brunt of that when we know the signings weren’t entirely his responsibility. The players and management team need time, and I’m sure additional players will be signed in January if things still aren’t looking too rosey.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: simboy on September 29, 2019, 08:48:26 AM
I seem to remember a Brentford fan when we got Smith saying that Smith sides take a little time to really click and we have to be patient. This is a different side to the mess he inherited, different to the one he sorted out in January, so the second side he’s put together in less than a year.

Lots to be positive about, although still a little slow to change tactically during games hopefully the results will follow quickly and ease any pressure.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ROBBO on September 29, 2019, 08:56:59 AM
It is such a vital position leading the spine I have no doubt with a more seasoned centre forward we would have won at least a couple of games more. Do we need a giant at the front Puky or whatever his name is seems to lead the line well.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brassneck on September 29, 2019, 09:14:31 AM
Quote from: danno on September 29, 2019, 12:25:14 AM
Of course its not too early to drop him, if we think Davis will do better.

But to definitively say any player anywhere is going to be a superstar or a flop after seven games is mental.

Xhaka at Arsenal was scouted 30 times and they still signed him! They're obviously taking the piss, if it's possible to know someone is never going to cut it after seven games.

He was never prolific at Bruges so I think it's safe to say that, that aspect of his game is not going to improve in a better league.  Is he suddenly going to start jumping higher and actually giving the defenders something to worry about?  No chance.  Is the ball going to stick when we aim to hit him as an outlet?  It's difficult to envisage at this point.  Will his distribution get better?  This is possible but that alone will not turn him into a PL striker.  There are some players who show something and this justifies sticking with them.  There are others (like Wesley) who show nothing to justify sticking with them.  He needs to be replaced.  I'll then be more than happy to stick with him if he's on the bench.  It will then be up to him to take his chance when it comes along and to work to impress in training.  There was an instant yesterday when Jack cut inside and had Wesley free, wide of him.  It was the obvious ball to play but Jack chose to ignore him and try the more difficult route.  It's possible that this was because Jack knew (as most of the crowd did), that a ball to Wesley would probably end in Burnley regaining possession.

Having Davis on will at least give us an outlet when we go long.  He will play the role of bringing our supporting midfielders in superbly.  From this point, I'd like to see Davis given 10 games (which will include the toughies against Liverpool & Man City).
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: London Villan on September 29, 2019, 09:16:05 AM
A John Carew type player would be perfect now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on September 29, 2019, 09:16:47 AM
Quote from: OzVilla on September 29, 2019, 06:56:10 AM
The unfortunate fact is that Smith is being consistently out coached in the first 7 games. Up against 10 men twice and in the lead on three occasions with less than 15 mins left and we’ve returned 2 points from those 4 games. That’s been the biggest surprise for me so far this season and the biggest disappointment.
Agreed he had been "done" but he was up against very experienced operators at this level. Pochettino, Howe, Hodgson, Silva, Pelligrini, Emery, etc are no mugs. Dean is also in the learning process along with players.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Luke8 on September 29, 2019, 09:24:19 AM
Quote from: OzVilla on September 29, 2019, 06:56:10 AM
The unfortunate fact is that Smith is being consistently out coached in the first 7 games. Up against 10 men twice and in the lead on three occasions with less than 15 mins left and we’ve returned 2 points from those 4 games. That’s been the biggest surprise for me so far this season and the biggest disappointment.

I’m not sure you can say he is comprehensively being out coached.

His in game management you mention, is an area that he has to improve. Reacting to game situations (red cards) or other managers/teams changes in shape/approach has certainly been a weakness so far and something he will hopefully be learning quickly from.

However, if we criticise him for that, I think we must recognise that managers obviously spend time before the games preparing and coaching the teams, so you give Smith some credit in that respect as he is setting us up to be in a position to get those points.

The hope is, obviously, that he learns (and quickly) to rectify any problems with the initial set up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on September 29, 2019, 09:30:20 AM
I don’t think he’s doing a very good job at all this season so far, but if Smith is “Head Coach” then fingers also need to be pointed at the recruitment team for what looks like a really unbalanced transfer window. Going into the new season with the attacking line up we have was crazy.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on September 29, 2019, 11:04:16 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on September 29, 2019, 12:31:27 AM
Quote from: olaftab on September 29, 2019, 12:29:42 AM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on September 28, 2019, 11:25:25 PM
We can’t keep changing coaches every year.  Even if we go down he gets my vote.  He’s either the Vic Crowe or Ron Saunders of this era.  Either way I would feel sad if he left.
This. I believe even if we are relegated Smith should stay.
I don’t think anyone is saying get rid.
There are some very worrying signs though.

We're fickle but we like you.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Bobby Boy on September 29, 2019, 11:13:44 AM
Watching MOTD's highlights of Brighton's playing out from the back ruthlessly latched onto by Chelsea yesterday it will be interesting to see what Dean does in our next home game against them.

If Dean doesn't hone in on Brighton's frailties here and work on our players to play higher up the pitch and press them into mistakes then that would be a huge indictment of his planning.

He will need to establish who can and who can't do it so Keinan for Wesley for example may need to happen.

I really want Dean to succeed as we all do I'm sure but he needs to show that he can set us up to exploit our opponents weaknesses and give us the best chance to win.

I'm not sure that he has done that so far. Norwich will be tough next week so Brighton may be massive.

As I say Lampard evidently got it right yesterday. Hopefully Dean will do the same.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eddiemunster on September 29, 2019, 11:54:28 AM
Because of work, I haven't been to any games this season. However,I have been very surprised at some of the comments lately, saying we should get rid of Smith etc,etc.
Yesterday, I spoke to two fans who went to the game, they said that it was two points dropped and that the team needs to learn and learn quickly...….but.....they also said that far too many people, especially all of the "new" season ticket holders who are screaming for Smiths head, should remember back to the 5 to 6 years of turgid shite before we were last relegated, and also that the team and Smith got promoted possibly a year too early...….and that replacing Smith this season would be a massive mistake.....I for one totally agree with them.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ger Regan on September 29, 2019, 12:06:18 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on September 29, 2019, 12:48:29 AM
Quote from: olaftab on September 29, 2019, 12:29:42 AM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on September 28, 2019, 11:25:25 PM
We can’t keep changing coaches every year.  Even if we go down he gets my vote.  He’s either the Vic Crowe or Ron Saunders of this era.  Either way I would feel sad if he left.
This. I believe even if we are relegated Smith should stay.

I like Dean, but I think a judgement either way on that is way too early. If we go down having shown progression and a clear path to improvement then yes he should stay. If we go down because we repeat the same mistakes every week resulting in us throwing points away he absolutely shouldn’t stay.

It’s in Dean’s hands and I want him to stay, but he doesn’t have a free pass. He has to show he’s the right man.
That's it for me, too. As mad as it is to be calling for his head now (even though he has some serious issues to address), to give him a free pass, regardless of how the rest of the season goes, makes no sense to me.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villafirst on September 29, 2019, 12:08:23 PM
A big mistake having Taylor as cover at LB for Targett. Hause is the obvious choice. No way would the cheat Rodriguez have out jumped Kortney for that first goal. A real mismatch in height with Taylor marking Rodriguez. Worrying that Hause isn't making the bench??
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on September 29, 2019, 12:10:17 PM
Isn't he injured?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Luke8 on September 29, 2019, 02:23:30 PM
Hause played against Brighton in the cup so was available. I imagine Smith’s reasoning was more  likely that he is primarily a centre back and Dean went with Konsa (who I’ve heard him say can cover right back) and Taylor for the two defensive players on the bench.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on September 29, 2019, 04:01:37 PM
I would put money on them not scoring the first had Hause been where Taylor was when that Bitter's wanker arrived for the header.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villafirst on September 29, 2019, 05:36:41 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on September 29, 2019, 04:01:37 PM
I would put money on them not scoring the first had Hause been where Taylor was when that Bitter's wanker arrived for the header.

Agree. Why can't DS see the obvious?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on September 29, 2019, 05:39:39 PM
He could really, really do with a win against Norwich, as it's a bit of a six pointer.  Lose, and it'll be one win in eight, and we'll be starting to get cut adrift.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: DB on September 29, 2019, 05:46:18 PM
Quote from: Risso on September 29, 2019, 05:39:39 PM
He could really, really do with a win against Norwich, as it's a bit of a six pointer.  Lose, and it'll be one win in eight, and we'll be starting to get cut adrift.

It’s massive, Norwich are one of our rivals. These are the sides we should be picking up points from
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on September 29, 2019, 05:47:34 PM
We don't need to win there but we do need to not lose.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tomd2103 on September 29, 2019, 05:59:12 PM
Quote from: Luke8 on September 29, 2019, 09:24:19 AM
Quote from: OzVilla on September 29, 2019, 06:56:10 AM
The unfortunate fact is that Smith is being consistently out coached in the first 7 games. Up against 10 men twice and in the lead on three occasions with less than 15 mins left and we’ve returned 2 points from those 4 games. That’s been the biggest surprise for me so far this season and the biggest disappointment.

I’m not sure you can say he is comprehensively being out coached.

His in game management you mention, is an area that he has to improve. Reacting to game situations (red cards) or other managers/teams changes in shape/approach has certainly been a weakness so far and something he will hopefully be learning quickly from.

However, if we criticise him for that, I think we must recognise that managers obviously spend time before the games preparing and coaching the teams, so you give Smith some credit in that respect as he is setting us up to be in a position to get those points.

The hope is, obviously, that he learns (and quickly) to rectify any problems with the initial set up.

Agree Luke, but the lack of flexibility when it comes to adapting to what is going on in the game that is a bit of a concern.  It just all seems a but rigid and substitutions seem to be enforced ones on the whole and not proactive ones looking to change a game. 

DS still has plenty of credit in the bank for me though and you can see things coming together a bit. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on September 29, 2019, 06:05:31 PM
4 points v Norwich-Brighton and we'd be above both provided Brighton don't beat Spurs at home and Norwich don't go and win at Bournemouth.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on September 29, 2019, 06:19:02 PM
Where are the people screaming for Smith's head, and how have they been identified as 'new season ticket holders'?

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on September 29, 2019, 09:58:31 PM
I haven’t heard anyone at the match being unsupportive of DS.

We have to remember that he came into a ragbag of a team and did wonders to get us promoted in less than a year.

He’s making mistakes as he learns, I’m glad we are being patient and supportive of him as, if we can’t give Dean Smith a bit of time, who would we be prepared to?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: walsall villain on September 29, 2019, 10:23:17 PM
Quote from: PeterWithe on September 29, 2019, 09:58:31 PM
I haven’t heard anyone at the match being unsupportive of DS.

We have to remember that he came into a ragbag of a team and did wonders to get us promoted in less than a year.

He’s making mistakes as he learns, I’m glad we are being patient and supportive of him as, if we can’t give Dean Smith a bit of time, who would we be prepared to?
I haven’t either, I did hear one idiot on WM talking about people around him discussing it but I don’t imagine it’s typical of how fans think. Time for patience and full support I reckon.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: WarszaVillan on September 29, 2019, 10:28:56 PM
Quote from: Villafirst on September 29, 2019, 05:36:41 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on September 29, 2019, 04:01:37 PM
I would put money on them not scoring the first had Hause been where Taylor was when that Bitter's wanker arrived for the header.

Agree. Why can't DS see the obvious?

And without Taylor's tackle we wouldn't have scored our second
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: DB on September 30, 2019, 09:40:37 AM
The bloke did wonders last season. If there was any manager I want to suceed it's him (and Sir Brian back in the day), but whoever is the manager, the perfs and results have not been good enough IMO. It needs to change pretty quick. DS has enough in the bank with the fans, not sure the owners will be the same.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on September 30, 2019, 09:50:01 AM
Quote from: DB on September 30, 2019, 09:40:37 AM
The bloke did wonders last season. If there was any manager I want to suceed it's him (and Sir Brian back in the day), but whoever is the manager, the perfs and results have not been good enough IMO. It needs to change pretty quick. DS has enough in the bank with the fans, not sure the owners will be the same.

Nor should they given the investment they have put in.

The view by some on here that the club should keep faith with Smith even if it's means relegation is mental.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clark W Griswold on September 30, 2019, 09:53:20 AM
As i say, i won't be calling for his head unless we're mid-table championship in 12 months time. I do think the owners will give him plenty of time as well, as lot of the squad building has been done with the possibility of relegation and the intention of keeping the squad pretty much in tact even if we do go. Smith has been allowed to build that squad so he'll get the chance to bring us back with them in my opinion.
It'll be no disgrace on Smith if we do go down, but I see this season is a big opportunity for Smith to take his reputation to the next level, if he can drag us up the table to being well clear.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: DB on September 30, 2019, 09:58:08 AM
Quote from: Clark W Griswold on September 30, 2019, 09:53:20 AM
As i say, i won't be calling for his head unless we're mid-table championship in 12 months time. I do think the owners will give him plenty of time as well, as lot of the squad building has been done with the possibility of relegation and the intention of keeping the squad pretty much in tact even if we do go. Smith has been allowed to build that squad so he'll get the chance to bring us back with them in my opinion.
It'll be no disgrace on Smith if we do go down, but I see this season is a big opportunity for Smith to take his reputation to the next level, if he can drag us up the table to being well clear.

I don't think the owners will be that loyal to him. Now that we are back in the Prem, they will want to stay there and push on. Can't see them sticking with DS if we are at risk to go down for him to have an opportunity of increasing his reputation.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on September 30, 2019, 10:06:59 AM
Quote from: Clark W Griswold on September 30, 2019, 09:53:20 AM
As i say, i won't be calling for his head unless we're mid-table championship in 12 months time. I do think the owners will give him plenty of time as well, as lot of the squad building has been done with the possibility of relegation and the intention of keeping the squad pretty much in tact even if we do go. Smith has been allowed to build that squad so he'll get the chance to bring us back with them in my opinion.
It'll be no disgrace on Smith if we do go down, but I see this season is a big opportunity for Smith to take his reputation to the next level, if he can drag us up the table to being well clear.

That squad will be hacked to bits if we go down with any quality departing. Effectively starting from scratch again.

Top two aside the standard in the division is very average. Luckily for us Newcastle and Watford are in chaos but above us there are many average teams including the likes of Norwich who barely invested at all last summer. It's very frustrating as we bottled three great chances in the last three games to win games.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on September 30, 2019, 11:45:23 AM
DS did some good things against Burnley: playing Targett and taking a winger out being two examples (although I personally would have started with Luiz as well as Nakamba, to give us more strength in MF). Using the 2 fullbacks to apply the width to the team is definitely the way to go, IMHO.
My slight concerns with Smith are that:
- his substitutions usually seem to be like-for-like players (David for Wesley, for example; Trez for AEG), which reduces our ability to do something different when things are getting tough in a game
- he does not seem to have 'got' the need for Premier League savvy: slowing the game down and tightening the play when we've taken the lead. We've got to get a lot smarter, and quickly; and I'd expect to have seen more influence from Terry in this respect.- he does not seem to see the advantages of playing two pay-playing holding MF (Nakamba and Luiz): both have shown an eye for a pass and both are robust and energetic.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Luke8 on September 30, 2019, 01:03:35 PM
Quote from: Mister E on September 30, 2019, 11:45:23 AM

he does not seem to have 'got' the need for Premier League savvy: slowing the game down and tightening the play when we've taken the lead. We've got to get a lot smarter, and quickly; and I'd expect to have seen more influence from Terry in this respect.


The onus for that is on the players as well though.

It was noticeable that in the last two league games once both teams had got what they wanted going into the last ten or so minutes, we barely created an opportunity (Hourihane’s handball chance was the only one I think). Both of them massively slowed the games down, used tactical fouls and time wasted to kill the game.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: algy on October 01, 2019, 12:45:43 PM
I got the impression that the new owners were looking at things from a long-term perspective, in which case I imagine he'll get a reasonable amount of leeway.

That said, I can't see him still being at the club next season if we finish 19th/20th.  Possibly stay if we're 18th having put up a good fight ... maybe.

For me, drawing at home with Burnley was a bit disappointing.  Not that they're a terrible side or anything, I don't think there are any in the Premier League really, but if we're to stay up and we're not snatching many points off the top-half teams - winning against Burnley and the likes is crucial.

Think it's a big fortnight now.  2 wins and I'll be far less shaky.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Luke8 on October 01, 2019, 01:39:49 PM
Quote from: algy on October 01, 2019, 12:45:43 PM

For me, drawing at home with Burnley was a bit disappointing.  Not that they're a terrible side or anything, I don't think there are any in the Premier League really, but if we're to stay up and we're not snatching many points off the top-half teams - winning against Burnley and the likes is crucial.


Agree that it was disappointing not to take three points from Burnley at home.

Regarding the second point though, most people would have had Everton and West Ham as ‘top half’ teams and those two games have brought four points. Plus, we really should have got something from the Arsenal game.

We won’t will all the games people naturally ‘expect’ or target, like Burnley on Saturday, but equally think there are 17 other teams that it’s not unrealistic to say we have a decent chance of getting something from.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on October 01, 2019, 07:15:03 PM
The season has gone more or less like I expected it to although we deserve to have a couple of more points on the board.  We didn't find it easy in our first season back up under Sir Graham either. I reckon we'll get better as the season goes on and yes, we'll have the odd bump or two along the way. I'd be tempted to give him the chance to get us back up even if we went down but I think we will be ok anyway.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The_ads on October 02, 2019, 10:35:06 PM
Quote from: Clampy on October 01, 2019, 07:15:03 PM
The season has gone more or less like I expected it to although we deserve to have a couple of more points on the board.  We didn't find it easy in our first season back up under Sir Graham either. I reckon we'll get better as the season goes on and yes, we'll have the odd bump or two along the way. I'd be tempted to give him the chance to get us back up even if we went down but I think we will be ok anyway.

Dean Smith should absolutely be in charge next season regardless he’s done a fantastic job. Burnley did and look at them.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on October 03, 2019, 11:55:31 AM
Quote from: Clampy on October 01, 2019, 07:15:03 PM
The season has gone more or less like I expected it to although we deserve to have a couple of more points on the board.  We didn't find it easy in our first season back up under Sir Graham either. I reckon we'll get better as the season goes on and yes, we'll have the odd bump or two along the way. I'd be tempted to give him the chance to get us back up even if we went down but I think we will be ok anyway.


We had a decent start in our first season back in the top flight under SGT. I remember in the first few games we draw with Millwall, won at Arsenal, drew at West Ham and beat Everton at Villa Park. I think we were doing okay until the turn of the year but had a bad couple of months and it ended up going right down to the wire. If I remember correctly the last relegation place was between us and West Ham and if they won their last two games away to Forest and Liverpool (which had been postponed due to Hillsborough) they would have stayed up and sent us down. Leroy Rosenior scored two for them in a 2-1 win at Forest and they went a goal up in their game at Anfield (at that point we were down). Luckily Liverpool stormed back and ended up winning 5-1. I think we drew 1-1 with Coventry at Villa Park in the last game.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 03, 2019, 12:53:33 PM
Quote from: The_ads on October 02, 2019, 10:35:06 PM
Quote from: Clampy on October 01, 2019, 07:15:03 PM
The season has gone more or less like I expected it to although we deserve to have a couple of more points on the board.  We didn't find it easy in our first season back up under Sir Graham either. I reckon we'll get better as the season goes on and yes, we'll have the odd bump or two along the way. I'd be tempted to give him the chance to get us back up even if we went down but I think we will be ok anyway.

Dean Smith should absolutely be in charge next season regardless he’s done a fantastic job. Burnley did and look at them.

Again if he demonstrates he’s learning from the mistakes the team is making, poor game management being the principle one, and we’re improving as a side then he should absolutely keep his job. However if we continue to make the same mistakes then he shouldn’t. Nobody should be calling for him to get the chop now, but equally he doesn’t get a free pass if things don’t improve.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on October 03, 2019, 04:18:22 PM
Quote from: The_ads on October 02, 2019, 10:35:06 PM
Quote from: Clampy on October 01, 2019, 07:15:03 PM
The season has gone more or less like I expected it to although we deserve to have a couple of more points on the board.  We didn't find it easy in our first season back up under Sir Graham either. I reckon we'll get better as the season goes on and yes, we'll have the odd bump or two along the way. I'd be tempted to give him the chance to get us back up even if we went down but I think we will be ok anyway.

Dean Smith should absolutely be in charge next season regardless he’s done a fantastic job. Burnley did and look at them.


Fair play to Burnley for sticking with Dyche but not many managers survive a relegation season, even managers who have won promotion the previous season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dogtanian on October 04, 2019, 08:36:46 PM
I went to a business culture ‘workshop’ thing at BCU last night at which Dean Smith was the guest speaker.

He spoke about his time at Walsall, Brentford, and Villa, about how he tried to build togetherness and a positive culture, and about how he tries to be as a manager with his plyers and the rest of the staff.  He came across really well, intelligent, passionate, and as someone who genuinely cares about people, players and fans.

I really do think he is the right guy for the job, no matter how this season turns out, and if we give him time and support he’s going to take this club places.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: berneboy on October 04, 2019, 10:32:14 PM
Quote from: Dogtanian on October 04, 2019, 08:36:46 PM
I went to a business culture ‘workshop’ thing at BCU last night at which Dean Smith was the guest speaker.

He spoke about his time at Walsall, Brentford, and Villa, about how he tried to build togetherness and a positive culture, and about how he tries to be as a manager with his plyers and the rest of the staff.  He came across really well, intelligent, passionate, and as someone who genuinely cares about people, players and fans.

I really do think he is the right guy for the job, no matter how this season turns out, and if we give him time and support he’s going to take this club places.

Like
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villan from luton on October 04, 2019, 10:41:19 PM
I think we do not deserve to be in the premier league and it is mainly down to the management of the team, along with Jack coming back of course. It was always going to be a struggle, especially early on, but I have confidence that we will improve. I think some of the football has been excellent, but we have been naïve and need to get more street wise.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KRS on October 05, 2019, 01:53:52 AM
Quote from: villan from luton on October 04, 2019, 10:41:19 PM
I think we do not deserve to be in the premier league and it is mainly down to the management of the team, along with Jack coming back of course.
Who deserves to be in the Premier League more than the form team that won the playoffs? Surely having one of the best managers and players in the Championship along with the winning streak means we deserve it more than any other team last season?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clark W Griswold on October 05, 2019, 09:28:55 AM
We did it therefore we deserve it but it is fair to say that apart from that winning streak after the Stoke game away and a few games shortly after Smith arrived we did only look like a mid table championship side. We have changed a lot of the squad anyway, as we had to do, and it will take time for them all to fully settle in and to gel. I just hope it happens in time to put another run together that picks up enough points to stay up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 05, 2019, 10:21:22 AM
Come on Dean make sure the team demonstrate they’ve learnt some lessons on game management today.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on October 05, 2019, 11:31:09 AM
Quote from: villan from luton on October 04, 2019, 10:41:19 PM
I think we do not deserve to be in the premier league and it is mainly down to the management of the team, along with Jack coming back of course. It was always going to be a struggle, especially early on, but I have confidence that we will improve. I think some of the football has been excellent, but we have been naïve and need to get more street wise.

This is a good point. I don't think many of us, including the owners, really thought this time last year that we'd get promotion so maybe we should remember that we're running before we properly learned to walk.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on October 05, 2019, 12:18:05 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on October 05, 2019, 11:31:09 AM
Quote from: villan from luton on October 04, 2019, 10:41:19 PM
I think we do not deserve to be in the premier league and it is mainly down to the management of the team, along with Jack coming back of course. It was always going to be a struggle, especially early on, but I have confidence that we will improve. I think some of the football has been excellent, but we have been naïve and need to get more street wise.

This is a good point. I don't think many of us, including the owners, really thought this time last year that we'd get promotion so maybe we should remember that we're running before we properly learned to walk.
It is a good point in a way, but I’d say instead of we did not deserve it but we certainly never dreamed of it at the beginning of this year. He’s done brilliant in a very short space of time and I’m loving the way we are trying to play. I’m absolutely convinced we’ll survive this season and build from it for next season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 05, 2019, 11:17:36 PM
Good to see today, long may it continue.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on October 06, 2019, 02:54:59 PM
Loath to dig up the Bruce thread so I’ll stick it in here. Reading his ‘motivational’ words yesterday and had a shiver.

The gist, ICYMI:

Players are shit, don’t fancy it.

Specifically, they can’t match my attacking ambitions so I’m reverting to Benitez’s boring football.

The players can’t hide behind me any more BUT the flak stops with me.

The whole of Newcastle was against my appointment from the start (sounds familiar).

He’s become a pathetic caricature of himself. We’re so lucky we traded that numpty in for a manager 1,000 x better than him, ability and character-wise.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on October 06, 2019, 03:52:20 PM
Quote from: themossman on October 06, 2019, 02:54:59 PM
Loath to dig up the Bruce thread so I’ll stick it in here. Reading his ‘motivational’ words yesterday and had a shiver.

The gist, ICYMI:

Players are shit, don’t fancy it.

Specifically, they can’t match my attacking ambitions so I’m reverting to Benitez’s boring football.

The players can’t hide behind me any more BUT the flak stops with me.

The whole of Newcastle was against my appointment from the start (sounds familiar).

He’s become a pathetic caricature of himself. We’re so lucky we traded that numpty in for a manager 1,000 x better than him, ability and character-wise.


He's spent his entire career using that argument "it's my responsibility so, even though the players are shit and I'd be fine if I didn't have to deal with such a shit squad, it's my fault, but it wouldn't be so bad if the fans could appreciate that I'm not shit, it's just the players, and the fans for not wanting me. If everyone could see that I'm a genius who is being let down by everyone else then they'd be less likely to think I'm shit".
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on October 06, 2019, 04:22:04 PM
Yep 100% - I remember those sad interviews where he chucked players under the bus with the ‘clever’ twist that people should blame him for picking them. What a big man. I used to think he was a limited manager but a decent bloke with integrity, now I actually think he’s a bit of a slippery twat with more than a touch of the victim complexes.

Back to smith... it’s notable that if ever there was a coach who had the excuse that he didn’t have the players for his style it was him last season. I’ll stand corrected but I don’t think he used this excuse once during that dodgy period with grealish out.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Flamingo Lane on October 06, 2019, 05:11:40 PM
Best thing for me - and this is down to Smith, and the owners, and the players - is that going to a Villa match has become at long last a thing to look forward to, and that - whatever the result - we are all part of the same shared experience.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on October 06, 2019, 05:20:53 PM
Quote from: Flamingo Lane on October 06, 2019, 05:11:40 PM
Best thing for me - and this is down to Smith, and the owners, and the players - is that going to a Villa match has become at long last a thing to look forward to, and that - whatever the result - we are all part of the same shared experience.
100% This.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: p_ad on October 06, 2019, 05:58:23 PM
Yes it's back to when you were a kid , and couldn't wait for the next game
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TopDeck113 on October 06, 2019, 07:18:16 PM
Nail hit on head. Deano has made all us sad cynics fans again.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT on October 06, 2019, 08:43:26 PM
Quote from: The Edge on October 06, 2019, 05:20:53 PM
Quote from: Flamingo Lane on October 06, 2019, 05:11:40 PM
Best thing for me - and this is down to Smith, and the owners, and the players - is that going to a Villa match has become at long last a thing to look forward to, and that - whatever the result - we are all part of the same shared experience.
100% This.

Absolutely. Yesterday was a brilliant match, even for a neutral. End to end, chances by the boatload. Norwich to their credit, never gave up, always pressed and got in behind us in the wide areas time and again.

Great to watch.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: rooboy316 on October 07, 2019, 01:07:40 AM
It seems like teams need time to get used to playing his systems. It happened at Brentford, and then at Villa last year. We were middling and underperforming for a while and then suddenly everything clicked for our 10 wins in a row. Although this year it's 'his' team insofar as he's had a say in who we've bought, as opposed to an inherited squad... it's still a relatively new team with many who haven't played together. Hopefully there will be a similar moment when it all clicks - perhaps Saturday was it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Colhint on October 07, 2019, 11:02:33 PM
It'll be a year with us on Thursday I think. 15th in the Championship when he joined, 15th in the prem one year on.

Thumbs up from me.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on October 10, 2019, 08:30:22 AM
Happy Dean Smith Day.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: West Derby Villan on October 10, 2019, 09:09:10 AM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on October 10, 2019, 08:30:22 AM
Happy Dean Smith Day.

Seconded, what a difference a year makes!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on October 10, 2019, 09:21:53 AM
Smith Out! ;)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brend'Watkins on October 10, 2019, 09:43:35 AM
A year already? He’s achieved a lot in that time, decent football, quality signings and uniting the club and fans. He’s had a bit of luck along the way with the new owners and the appointment of Purslow but he’s convinced them all he can do it. I hope he fulfills all his ambitions with his and our club.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on October 10, 2019, 09:49:17 AM
Quote from: Bren'd on October 10, 2019, 09:43:35 AM
A year already? He’s achieved a lot in that time, decent football, quality signings and uniting the club and fans. He’s had a bit of luck along the way with the new owners and the appointment of Purslow but he’s convinced them all he can do it. I hope he fulfills all his ambitions with his and our club.

Hear, hear.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on October 10, 2019, 09:51:00 AM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on October 10, 2019, 09:49:17 AM
Quote from: Bren'd on October 10, 2019, 09:43:35 AM
A year already? He’s achieved a lot in that time, decent football, quality signings and uniting the club and fans. He’s had a bit of luck along the way with the new owners and the appointment of Purslow but he’s convinced them all he can do it. I hope he fulfills all his ambitions with his and our club.

Hear, hear.

Yeah, no.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 10, 2019, 12:12:02 PM
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on October 10, 2019, 12:31:00 PM
Quote from: Risso on October 10, 2019, 09:51:00 AM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on October 10, 2019, 09:49:17 AM
Quote from: Bren'd on October 10, 2019, 09:43:35 AM
A year already? He’s achieved a lot in that time, decent football, quality signings and uniting the club and fans. He’s had a bit of luck along the way with the new owners and the appointment of Purslow but he’s convinced them all he can do it. I hope he fulfills all his ambitions with his and our club.

Hear, hear.

Yeah, no.

?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on October 10, 2019, 12:37:49 PM
It's what Deano often says.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave shelley on October 10, 2019, 12:58:06 PM
For balance he does sometimes say no, yeah.  Either way he's alright by me.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chipsticks on October 10, 2019, 12:59:21 PM
The man who finally gave us our villa back. He allowed us to dream and brought us home.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Hookeysmith on October 10, 2019, 01:31:00 PM
He listens and he learns and we improve - cant ask any more than that

The players like him
We like him
The owners like him

A perfect match

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on October 10, 2019, 01:40:48 PM
Quote
The inside story of Dean Smith's year of revolution at Aston Villa

(https://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/football/2019/10/09/TELEMMGLPICT000212106638_trans_NvBQzQNjv4BqqVzuuqpFlyLIwiB6NTmJwfUfiMSqmkoakOSsypyffx8.jpeg?imwidth=1400)
Dean Smith celebrates a year at Aston Villa on Thursday

John Percy
10 OCTOBER 2019 • 7:48AM

It was just over a year ago that Dean Smith climbed into his car on a chilly autumn evening, left his home in Great Barr and set off for the Hyatt Regency Hotel in Birmingham.

He did not know it at the time, but it was a journey that was to change his life. The meeting at the Hyatt, shortly before midnight, was effectively a job interview for the vacant managerial post at Aston Villa. On Thursday, he celebrates one year in charge, with the club promoted back to the Premier League and winning over a new generation of fans with a thrilling brand of football.

It is an extraordinary rise, and reward for an arduous career path which started nearly 15 years ago in Leyton Orient’s youth academy. Smith has always craved this job, ever since standing in the Holte End as a fan with his brother Dave in the early 1980s.

“Everyone can see the passion and ideas Dean has for the club, but it’s almost like he is just starting,” says Richard O’Kelly, one of Smith’s assistants and a crucial figure behind the scenes over the last seven years.

“It’s not a case of him reaching his dream job and thinking that’s enough. He wants to come here and really achieve something. He is very focused on what he’s doing, building things, establishing a structure, and he does it really well.”

(https://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/football/2019/10/09/TELEMMGLPICT000212099628_trans_NvBQzQNjv4BqLfD0EOB5CEFXzCF_NHe0S8zg6NlZ2-aGbyIcXcVFyEI.jpeg?imwidth=1240)
Smith's side thrashed Norwich on Saturday

Smith was a popular appointment in October last year, at a time when the mood around Villa Park was fractious after the final months of Steve Bruce’s tenure. He had been on the final shortlist of two at both West Brom and Derby earlier that year, but it was that meeting with chief executive Christian Purslow in Birmingham which swung it.

Villa’s fans have now got their club back, delivered by one of their own.

Promotion was achieved via the play-off final at Wembley and Villa have made a steady start in the Premier League, after a £127 million squad revamp. Smith’s vision of football was there in high definition at Carrow Road last Saturday, as Villa romped to a 5-1 victory over Norwich.

It has not always been easy, however, and it has ultimately proved a long journey to the Villa dug-out. Smith’s first steps in coaching began at Orient, where he also played for six years, and he was soon promoted to first-team duties alongside manager Martin Ling. His progress as a coach was rapid, passing his pro-license in 2008 with class-mates which included Brendan Rodgers and Roy Keane.

This Saturday, Smith will be Ling’s guest when the League Two club face Walsall (another of his former clubs) at the Breyer Group Stadium.

Ling is now Orient’s director of football and his relationship with Smith stretches back to the late 1990s, extending far beyond football.

“When I had my mental health issues, Dean was always there for me and my family,” said Ling, who has struggled with depression for more than ten years.

(https://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/football/2019/10/09/TELEMMGLPICT000197152353_trans_NvBQzQNjv4BqDijfCOMDtuyWS63sbX0ZBEUxnesEvpyBlpMIR2-RRZs.jpeg?imwidth=1240)
Richard O'Kelly shares coaching duties with Smith and John Terry

“He was the one who my wife Caroline first turned to. I’ve been in the Priory more than once and he was a big help on both my recoveries.

“When I was struggling, he was on the end of the phone and always visiting. He said some strong words and that shows how close we are.

“We speak at least once a week. We were close pals when we played together, and still are now; we go to the same golf society and Cheltenham every year.

“I don’t see Dean as this big Premier League manager, he will never change and that’s one of his strengths.”

It was Smith’s time at Walsall where his reputation really started to soar as a No 1. Thrown in at the deep end in January 2011 as a caretaker manager, with the Saddlers in danger of relegation to the fourth tier, he pulled off a miraculous rescue mission on the final day.

Four more campaigns followed, where he stabilised the club in League One and guided them to their first ever Wembley appearance in the Football League Trophy final.

He then earned a promotion to the Championship with Brentford, establishing a unique brand of entertaining football and further enhancing his reputation at another sensible, well-run club.

The list of players to flourish there under Smith and then generate money from sales is impressive: Neal Maupay, Chris Mepham, Ryan Woods, Romaine Sawyers, Ezri Konza and Jota (the final two are now at Villa).

“If I was ever coaching a team and didn’t enjoy watching them play, I’d leave the job,” says O’Kelly, who shares coaching duties at Villa with Smith and John Terry.

“You want football to be exciting and getting people out of their seats, with and without the ball. That was one of the things that brought us together all that time ago. He worked out very early how he wanted the team to play and what they stand for. He makes it clear, with logical and simple ideas

“Dean’s also a very good listener. He gives you the platform to air your opinion, even if he doesn’t always agree with it.”

One of the recurring themes about Smith is his ability to deal with the highs and lows, the capricious fortunes of a football manager. Last season, Villa won only three games from December to February and hopes of promotion appeared remote.

Yet a club record run of ten wins in a row propelled them into contention and Villa insiders insist Smith’s demeanour never wavered during both those sequences of form.

On the rare occasions Smith does lose his temper, players know about it. Tyrone Mings, the defender, pinpoints a half-time hairdryer moment at Stoke in late February as pivotal to last season’s revival.

“The manager is very level in his moods and isn’t one to shout so when he does that, it has an impact,” he said. “You definitely stand up and take notice.

“I think everyone who was at Stoke and was on the pitch in the first half will say we were not good enough. He was quite sharp.

“There is always a time and a place for keeping cool and there is also a time and a place for letting people know they are not meeting their expectations of what the manager has sent you out on the pitch to do. It was a good team talk.”

One of nine British managers in the Premier League, Smith is also highly regarded by his peers and emerging as an inspiration for young coaches. Last week he was at Birmingham University to talk at a seminar on leadership, and the 48-year-old’s route to the Premier League should serve as an incentive for many.

Steve Holland, Gareth Southgate’s No 2 with England, insists Smith is a flag-bearer for English coaches. “It is no good for any of us, myself or Gareth included, crying about the lack of this or the lack of that. It is the way it is and the challenge is to pick the best from the best and work as hard as possible to create our own opportunities,” he says.

“I think somebody like Dean and Richard [O’Kelly] worked for many years in the lower leagues behaving well, with good teams playing good football. They are a really good advert and it is fantastic that they get the opportunity to work at the highest level - not just work at the highest level, but at a club in Aston Villa who will have a chance to do a bit more than survive.”

Villa ultimately aim to challenge at the top end again but, for now, Smith can reflect on a year of steady evolution.

The kid from Great Barr is living a claret and blue dream.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nelly on October 10, 2019, 03:29:47 PM
Thanks for that, TV.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on October 10, 2019, 05:37:43 PM
I love the man, long may he reign.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dogtanian on October 10, 2019, 05:53:15 PM
Quote from: LeeB on October 10, 2019, 05:37:43 PM
I love the man, long may he reign.

I just read that straight after reading FatSam’s Boris Johnson is a c*** comment in the NSWE thread and my brain got very confused and afraid.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: FatSam on October 10, 2019, 06:00:54 PM
I was interested to hear that one of the reasons (amongst others) that Victor Valdes was sacked from his role as U19 coach in the Barcelona academy, was that he didn't play 4-3-3 - the club formation.

Steve Bruce was a bit of a 'throw it at the wall and see what sticks' kind of a manager, but given how wedded Dean is to 4-3-3, I'd be interested to know whether the reserves and academy are asked (or required) to play this system.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: BC Villain on October 13, 2019, 12:37:29 PM
Deano giving a talk at BCU a couple of weeks ago.  Gives a good insight into how he develop a culture at Walsall in particular.

https://youtu.be/YkJXeRQorMQ
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brassneck on October 13, 2019, 03:41:40 PM
Quote from: BC Villain on October 13, 2019, 12:37:29 PM
Deano giving a talk at BCU a couple of weeks ago.  Gives a good insight into how he develop a culture at Walsall in particular.

https://youtu.be/YkJXeRQorMQ

Very good.  I really enjoyed that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dogtanian on October 13, 2019, 04:40:37 PM
Quote from: BC Villain on October 13, 2019, 12:37:29 PM
Deano giving a talk at BCU a couple of weeks ago.  Gives a good insight into how he develop a culture at Walsall in particular.

https://youtu.be/YkJXeRQorMQ

Haha, pause it at the start and there’s a Muskahound right there.   ;D
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on October 13, 2019, 08:43:08 PM
Quote from: Dogtanian on October 13, 2019, 04:40:37 PM
Quote from: BC Villain on October 13, 2019, 12:37:29 PM
Deano giving a talk at BCU a couple of weeks ago.  Gives a good insight into how he develop a culture at Walsall in particular.

https://youtu.be/YkJXeRQorMQ

Haha, pause it at the start and there’s a Muskahound right there.   ;D

That was a great watch, thank you.

His message is simple, clear and effective. He's so the right manager for us.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on October 14, 2019, 12:19:02 AM
I love that man.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Diablo on October 14, 2019, 10:36:21 AM
So it turns out the secret to promotion was 3 words - fearless, togetherness and prepared! Long may it continue! Great video thanks for posting.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 23, 2019, 07:40:34 PM
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: purpletrousers on October 23, 2019, 07:54:33 PM
Thanks PWS, I do enjoy hearing Deano speak. Amusing to hear of Jack messaging his wife and telling him to chill and enjoy the victory!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 26, 2019, 03:24:19 PM
Dean really needs to get better at changing things up before it’s too late. It wouldn’t have changed the result today, but it’s a general theme. He’s very slow to react when things go against us.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AlexAlexCropley on October 26, 2019, 03:26:39 PM
I said at the time he should have changed it at 0-1
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on October 26, 2019, 07:06:44 PM
Quote from: AlexAlexCropley on October 26, 2019, 03:26:39 PM
I said at the time he should have changed it at 0-1

Change what? Just out of interest
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on October 26, 2019, 07:22:46 PM
Quote from: Three Spires Villa on October 26, 2019, 07:06:44 PM
Quote from: AlexAlexCropley on October 26, 2019, 03:26:39 PM
I said at the time he should have changed it at 0-1

Change what? Just out of interest

Trez and Wesley for a start
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Monty on October 27, 2019, 06:33:51 PM
Under-discussed point is that, thanks mainly to the Southampton result with the help of a few others, we will come out the other side of games with the top two outside the relegation zone unless something borderline insane happens with the goal differences. That is not bad going for a team still bedding in and finding their groove. Well done Deano and co.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on October 30, 2019, 11:24:16 PM
12 months in, and I'm starting to feel a bit like Wembley coming on again. Good on him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on November 01, 2019, 01:04:07 PM
Nominated for October's manager of the month.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: clash city rocker on November 01, 2019, 09:07:19 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on November 01, 2019, 01:04:07 PM
Nominated for October's manager of the month.

Bad omen that
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on November 01, 2019, 09:24:21 PM
Why? Not like when he wasn’t nominated we won every game.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on November 01, 2019, 09:32:49 PM
Quote from: clash city rocker on November 01, 2019, 09:07:19 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on November 01, 2019, 01:04:07 PM
Nominated for October's manager of the month.

Bad omen that

Jurgen Klopp is up for it too.

Must make the game odds on for a draw then.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hipkiss92 on November 06, 2019, 10:34:34 PM
Great video of his lecture at BCU doing the rounds on Facebook
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on November 07, 2019, 04:07:15 PM
And on this thread a couple of weeks back.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kieron on November 23, 2019, 07:01:42 PM
Smith and Terry in attendance at Man City vs Chelsea this evening.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on November 23, 2019, 07:13:39 PM
Probably checking in to see if either side has anyone worth signing in Jan. Not sure either of those no mark clubs do.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: wittonwarrior on November 24, 2019, 06:06:55 PM
Think we will make a decent and correct judgment about him tomorrow as generally a manager who goes for a  win (has been the odd exception) against an old fat fart who prefers first and foremost not to lose.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Flin5tone on November 24, 2019, 06:20:45 PM
The old fat fart that is 4 points above us and has beat Spurs and United? 🙄

I can't see much difference in the style of football we play either now than under Bruce, the odd game of 'exciting' football
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on November 24, 2019, 06:23:11 PM
Quote from: Flin5tone on November 24, 2019, 06:20:45 PM
The old fat fart that is 4 points above us and has beat Spurs and United? 🙄

I can't see much difference in the style of football we play either now than under Bruce, the odd game of 'exciting' football

We're playing it in the Premier League for a start.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on November 24, 2019, 06:23:55 PM
He could be top of the league and it wouldn't alter that his 'style' of football is shit. Has always been shit. And will always be shit.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT on November 24, 2019, 06:55:05 PM
Quote from: Flin5tone on November 24, 2019, 06:20:45 PM
The old fat fart that is 4 points above us and has beat Spurs and United? 🙄

I can't see much difference in the style of football we play either now than under Bruce, the odd game of 'exciting' football

You can't see much difference?

Holy fuck.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Allan C on November 24, 2019, 07:00:38 PM
Quote from: CT on November 24, 2019, 06:55:05 PM
Quote from: Flin5tone on November 24, 2019, 06:20:45 PM
The old fat fart that is 4 points above us and has beat Spurs and United? 🙄

I can't see much difference in the style of football we play either now than under Bruce, the odd game of 'exciting' football

You can't see much difference?

Holy fuck.
I can’t believe that comment either !!!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on November 24, 2019, 07:32:20 PM
Quote from: Allan C on November 24, 2019, 07:00:38 PM
Quote from: CT on November 24, 2019, 06:55:05 PM
Quote from: Flin5tone on November 24, 2019, 06:20:45 PM
The old fat fart that is 4 points above us and has beat Spurs and United? 🙄

I can't see much difference in the style of football we play either now than under Bruce, the odd game of 'exciting' football

You can't see much difference?

Holy fuck.
I can’t believe that comment either !!!
It’s one of those horrible ones.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on November 24, 2019, 08:46:43 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on November 24, 2019, 07:32:20 PM
Quote from: Allan C on November 24, 2019, 07:00:38 PM
Quote from: CT on November 24, 2019, 06:55:05 PM
Quote from: Flin5tone on November 24, 2019, 06:20:45 PM
The old fat fart that is 4 points above us and has beat Spurs and United? 🙄

I can't see much difference in the style of football we play either now than under Bruce, the odd game of 'exciting' football

You can't see much difference?

Holy fuck.
I can’t believe that comment either !!!
It’s one of those horrible ones.

Lol
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Flin5tone on November 25, 2019, 01:04:51 AM
All this Anti Bruce nonsense is a joke, I for one will give him a warm welcome. His treatment from our fans was a disgrace and  he had every right to speak out, luckily our current manager (a decent bloke) feels the same

Villa manager Dean Smith says he has an "awful lot of respect" for Bruce and was unhappy at how things ended for his predecessor.

"I thought it was a disgrace," Smith, 48, said of the incident with the cabbage.

"I have an awful lot of respect for what he has done in management but, more importantly, for how he is as a man"

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on November 25, 2019, 01:55:28 AM
Quote from: Flin5tone on November 25, 2019, 01:04:51 AM
All this Anti Bruce nonsense is a joke, I for one will give him a warm welcome. His treatment from our fans was a disgrace and  he had every right to speak out, luckily our current manager (a decent bloke) feels the same

Villa manager Dean Smith says he has an "awful lot of respect" for Bruce and was unhappy at how things ended for his predecessor.

"I thought it was a disgrace," Smith, 48, said of the incident with the cabbage.

"I have an awful lot of respect for what he has done in management but, more importantly, for how he is as a man"

Giggles
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KevinGage on November 25, 2019, 03:12:26 AM
Quote from: Flin5tone on November 25, 2019, 01:04:51 AM
All this Anti Bruce nonsense is a joke, I for one will give him a warm welcome. His treatment from our fans was a disgrace and  he had every right to speak out, luckily our current manager (a decent bloke) feels the same

Villa manager Dean Smith says he has an "awful lot of respect" for Bruce and was unhappy at how things ended for his predecessor.

"I thought it was a disgrace," Smith, 48, said of the incident with the cabbage.

"I have an awful lot of respect for what he has done in management but, more importantly, for how he is as a man"


I'm not anti Bruce as some.  He stabilised us first year (dire as some of the football was) and gave us plenty of games with goals in the second. People's interpretation of attractive football will be different, but any season where we have been scoring three, four or five goals in a game more than the odd occasion is a good year to me.

The time was right for him to depart but I have no real animosity towards him.

I'm not entirely convinced Smith is the best long term fit for us, but I can't argue he hasn't earned the right to have a proper crack at the top flight. His approach is way more modern and detailed than Bruce - even if we have been up and down this season and haven't closed out games as we should.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on November 25, 2019, 07:41:30 AM
As DW has said more than once we have a fathomless capacity to re write our own history.  Steve Bruce was a terrible manager.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on November 25, 2019, 08:04:26 AM
We've had some poor managers down there but I don't think Bruce is one of them. He should have done better than he did with the players he had but I wouldn't call him terrible.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on November 25, 2019, 08:12:32 AM
Given the resources at his disposal relative to the rest of the league, he did a terrible job. Most of the time we played some awful stuff. Really crap football where he was bailed out by last minute heroics and moments of individual magic. And he combined his blandness with a condescending attitude to anyone who would dare to criticize him. Like somehow we were lucky to have him.

I don’t hate him. He played his part in stabilizing the club at a shit time. But let’s not suggest for a second he did anything more than that or anything extraordinary that say, a Neil Warnock couldn’t have done.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Marlon From Bearwood on November 25, 2019, 08:48:03 AM
Well, quite. Especially considering Warnock took over at Cardiff at the same time Bruce took over at Villa and then managed to get a far inferior squad promoted.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on November 25, 2019, 09:15:19 AM
Agreed. On the surface it doesn't look like a terrible job, which is why most neutrals or fans of other clubs think it strange when many Villa fans are/were so critical of him.

But most people don't consider the fact that he had spent a fortune by Championship standards on a multitude of central midfielders and strikers who flattered to deceive, and filled the rest of the team with loans + 1 year of John Terry. When he then failed to get us up, it was an unmitigated disaster for the club.

The play-offs were the very least we should have been achieving. That wasn't an accomplishment, that was the minimum requirement. He then failed to win it with an altogether abject performance at Wembley, devoid of any discernible tactics whatsoever. He was crap.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on November 25, 2019, 10:06:42 AM
The arguments about Bruce will go on forever.  Lots of relegated teams struggle to get back up and whilst he was given a lot of resources we were starting from an incredubly low ebb.

I felt getting us to the play-off final was about par.  We lost playing pretty poor football and he absolutely should have gone after that and no doubt would have done if the finances hadn't imploded.

Overall he did ok.  I still feel we could have carried on dropping and he did turn that round and give us some good times.  But I agree the football was not good enough and was relived when we made the change.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on November 25, 2019, 10:14:31 AM
I get that, for some, he did a decent job but I just can't agree, he had 1 job which was to get us promoted, he got nowhere near in the first season, bottled it in the 2nd season and was on track to finish mid-table in his third having left us with the weakest defence in the league. In that time he very nearly wasted the best home-grown player in a generation and, lets not forget, this summer we were left with about 12 first team players because of his abysmal squad management, which forced Smith to sign pretty much an entire team to just give us the depth to stand a chance of surviving.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on November 25, 2019, 10:27:17 AM
Every time he's spoken since leaving it's been how strapped we were after the play off final, without any reference to the £20m or so he spunked in his first window on shite that offered absolutely fuck all, hugely expensive loans of Terry, Snodgrass and Bolaisie, and made even more stark when one of the first window signings has actually looked half decent under the man that followed him (Lansbury).

Steve Bruce can fuck off, hopefully with a hiding.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Flin5tone on November 25, 2019, 11:07:31 AM
It was Bruce signings that got us up, as pointed out by DS after the Play Off Final.

We never gave up in games under Bruce, the play off final was very disappointing but we had some great  days and nights too.

He'll easily keep Newcastle in this league. It depends if you leave the villa bubble, all the pundits on soccer Saturday hit the nail on the head for me, we're predictable and all the defending is last ditch, we've no real style and take away mcginn and jack and we have nothing. That's not a criticism of Dean as even if we go back down we should keep him.

Big one tonght!  I'll be clapping SB when he emerges from the tunnel and thanking him for his services at a very bad time personally for him
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on November 25, 2019, 11:22:31 AM
Quote from: Flin5tone on November 25, 2019, 11:07:31 AM
It was Bruce signings that got us up, as pointed out by DS after the Play Off Final.

We never gave up in games under Bruce, the play off final was very disappointing but we had some great  days and nights too.

He'll easily keep Newcastle in this league. It depends if you leave the villa bubble, all the pundits on soccer Saturday hit the nail on the head for me, we're predictable and all the defending is last ditch, we've no real style and take away mcginn and jack and we have nothing. That's not a criticism of Dean as even if we go back down we should keep him.

Big one tonght!  I'll be clapping SB when he emerges from the tunnel and thanking him for his services at a very bad time personally for him

Quote from: LeeB on November 25, 2019, 10:27:17 AM
Every time he's spoken since leaving it's been how strapped we were after the play off final, without any reference to the £20m or so he spunked in his first window on shite that offered absolutely fuck all, hugely expensive loans of Terry, Snodgrass and Bolaisie, and made even more stark when one of the first window signings has actually looked half decent under the man that followed him (Lansbury).

Steve Bruce can fuck off, hopefully with a hiding.

Agreed.

I don't wish him any particular ill will but personally I wish he'd never been our manager as he was the wrong choice from the start, I don't think of him any more fondly than I do Di Matteo.

Moving on from the manager debate, I hope we stuff the Geordies tonight. Sob on the Tyne, wae aye man.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on November 25, 2019, 11:28:12 AM
Quote from: Flin5tone on November 25, 2019, 11:07:31 AM
It was Bruce signings that got us up, as pointed out by DS after the Play Off Final.

Thats a great endorsment for a scout.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Bad English on November 25, 2019, 11:30:59 AM
Quote from: Flin5tone on November 25, 2019, 11:07:31 AM
It was Bruce signings that got us up, as pointed out by DS after the Play Off Final.

We never gave up in games under Bruce, the play off final was very disappointing but we had some great  days and nights too.

He'll easily keep Newcastle in this league. It depends if you leave the villa bubble, all the pundits on soccer Saturday hit the nail on the head for me, we're predictable and all the defending is last ditch, we've no real style and take away mcginn and jack and we have nothing. That's not a criticism of Dean as even if we go back down we should keep him.

Big one tonght!  I'll be clapping SB when he emerges from the tunnel and thanking him for his services at a very bad time personally for him
Thank you Alec! A marvellous tribute.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on November 25, 2019, 11:32:27 AM
Quote from: KevinGage on November 25, 2019, 03:12:26 AM
Quote from: Flin5tone on November 25, 2019, 01:04:51 AM
All this Anti Bruce nonsense is a joke, I for one will give him a warm welcome. His treatment from our fans was a disgrace and  he had every right to speak out, luckily our current manager (a decent bloke) feels the same

Villa manager Dean Smith says he has an "awful lot of respect" for Bruce and was unhappy at how things ended for his predecessor.

"I thought it was a disgrace," Smith, 48, said of the incident with the cabbage.

"I have an awful lot of respect for what he has done in management but, more importantly, for how he is as a man"


I'm not anti Bruce as some.  He stabilised us first year (dire as some of the football was) and gave us plenty of games with goals in the second. People's interpretation of attractive football will be different, but any season where we have been scoring three, four or five goals in a game more than the odd occasion is a good year to me.

The time was right for him to depart but I have no real animosity towards him.

I'm not entirely convinced Smith is the best long term fit for us, but I can't argue he hasn't earned the right to have a proper crack at the top flight. His approach is way more modern and detailed than Bruce - even if we have been up and down this season and haven't closed out games as we should.

Pretty much word for word my thoughts. I'll just treat his return with indifference although imagine the Holte will give him plenty of stick.

My main disappointment from his time here was our performance in the play off final, think that game really summed up his limitations as a manager.

Ironically though we go up and it would've been him, Wyness and Xia having a go in the premier league so maybe he did us a favour in the long term although we sailed very close to the wind to get to this stage.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on November 25, 2019, 11:38:08 AM
Quote from: LeeB on November 25, 2019, 10:27:17 AM
Every time he's spoken since leaving it's been how strapped we were after the play off final, without any reference to the £20m or so he spunked in his first window on shite that offered absolutely fuck all, hugely expensive loans of Terry, Snodgrass and Bolaisie, and made even more stark when one of the first window signings has actually looked half decent under the man that followed him (Lansbury).

Steve Bruce can fuck off, hopefully with a hiding.

That is one thing that does actually annoy me about him the "waif and strays" comment he made. Even last season when the situation was dire we still managed to get in someone who is now one of the premier league top scorers.

And the previous year we got in Terry and Snodgrass who since he's gone back to West Ham has been a regular there so plenty of good internationals.

It was a big disappointment not to get automatic promotion in 17/18 but as we saw with DS it all gets quickly forgotten if we'd have won the play offs.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on November 25, 2019, 11:46:23 AM
I hope he has one of them horrible ones.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on November 25, 2019, 12:05:56 PM
And the kit man only packs ankle socks.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on November 25, 2019, 12:35:24 PM
and all the players forget their boots.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mallo on November 25, 2019, 12:57:38 PM
And the sleeves on the shirts are incredibly tight on the forearms
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on November 25, 2019, 01:16:39 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on November 25, 2019, 08:12:32 AM
Given the resources at his disposal relative to the rest of the league, he did a terrible job. Most of the time we played some awful stuff. Really crap football where he was bailed out by last minute heroics and moments of individual magic. And he combined his blandness with a condescending attitude to anyone who would dare to criticize him. Like somehow we were lucky to have him.

I don’t hate him. He played his part in stabilizing the club at a shit time. But let’s not suggest for a second he did anything more than that or anything extraordinary that say, a Neil Warnock couldn’t have done.

Wolves surely had more resources than us? Boro spent big money under Gary Monk too without success. The likes of Fulham and Cardiff were better balanced teams than we were but can't agree that we weren't good to watch.

We scored shed loads of goals that season, including hammering Wolves at home. Grealish when he came back from injury, Grabban and Snodgrass were superb. Hourihane scored a load of goals from midfield. Chester and Terry playing out from the back.

If success is judged solely on getting us promoted then yes Bruce failed. I'd argue the truth is a bit more nuanced than that. Running out that piss head McCormack, rehabilitation of Grealish and signing of McGinn were a decent legacy alone. He made stupid recruitment mistakes when under pressure the last summer, Thierry Henry being strongly linked to come in at the time hardly helped, but overall his reign was very much a positive for me.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on November 25, 2019, 01:27:28 PM
Quote from: brontebilly on November 25, 2019, 01:16:39 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on November 25, 2019, 08:12:32 AM
Given the resources at his disposal relative to the rest of the league, he did a terrible job. Most of the time we played some awful stuff. Really crap football where he was bailed out by last minute heroics and moments of individual magic. And he combined his blandness with a condescending attitude to anyone who would dare to criticize him. Like somehow we were lucky to have him.

I don’t hate him. He played his part in stabilizing the club at a shit time. But let’s not suggest for a second he did anything more than that or anything extraordinary that say, a Neil Warnock couldn’t have done.

Wolves surely had more resources than us? Boro spent big money under Gary Monk too without success. The likes of Fulham and Cardiff were better balanced teams than we were but can't agree that we weren't good to watch.

We scored shed loads of goals that season, including hammering Wolves at home. Grealish when he came back from injury, Grabban and Snodgrass were superb. Hourihane scored a load of goals from midfield. Chester and Terry playing out from the back.

If success is judged solely on getting us promoted then yes Bruce failed. I'd argue the truth is a bit more nuanced than that. Running out that piss head McCormack, rehabilitation of Grealish and signing of McGinn were a decent legacy alone. He made stupid recruitment mistakes when under pressure the last summer, Thierry Henry being strongly linked to come in at the time hardly helped, but overall his reign was very much a positive for me.

We had no reason not to start that season on fire but it took us ages to get going, by which point we had too much ground to make up, and when we did get close after battering Wolves, we got stuffed at home by QPR FFS.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on November 25, 2019, 01:37:15 PM
Quote from: Flin5tone on November 24, 2019, 06:20:45 PM

I can't see much difference in the style of football we play either now than under Bruce, the odd game of 'exciting' football
Wow. 

Just spotted that this has been picked up on Twitter, you might go viral!
https://twitter.com/TheTremontiPick/status/1198677983743168512
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on November 25, 2019, 01:55:06 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on November 25, 2019, 01:37:15 PM
Quote from: Flin5tone on November 24, 2019, 06:20:45 PM

I can't see much difference in the style of football we play either now than under Bruce, the odd game of 'exciting' football
Wow. 

Just spotted that this has been picked up on Twitter, you might go viral!
https://twitter.com/TheTremontiPick/status/1198677983743168512

All these years and I never knew Stevie Wonder was a Villa fan.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on November 25, 2019, 02:16:30 PM
Quote from: Flin5tone on November 25, 2019, 11:07:31 AM
It was Bruce signings that got us up, as pointed out by DS after the Play Off Final.

So he was doing a shit job then and couldn't manage and coach the players he bought.

The style and approach is (literally) in a different league thanks to Smith. Results are similar but I'd put that down to the aforementioned different league.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on November 25, 2019, 02:22:27 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on November 25, 2019, 01:37:15 PM
Quote from: Flin5tone on November 24, 2019, 06:20:45 PM

I can't see much difference in the style of football we play either now than under Bruce, the odd game of 'exciting' football
Wow. 

Just spotted that this has been picked up on Twitter, you might go viral!
https://twitter.com/TheTremontiPick/status/1198677983743168512

I disagree with what Flin5tone says but what a wanker move posting it on Twitter.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on November 25, 2019, 02:37:34 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on November 25, 2019, 02:22:27 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on November 25, 2019, 01:37:15 PM
Quote from: Flin5tone on November 24, 2019, 06:20:45 PM

I can't see much difference in the style of football we play either now than under Bruce, the odd game of 'exciting' football
Wow. 

Just spotted that this has been picked up on Twitter, you might go viral!
https://twitter.com/TheTremontiPick/status/1198677983743168512

I disagree with what Flin5tone says but what a wanker move posting it on Twitter.

Agreed.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on November 25, 2019, 02:49:32 PM
Never had a particular axe to grind with Bruce, he managed to get in some very talented players, and then seemingly had little plan on how to set them up into anything more than an expensive group of individuals. He was quite open about not understanding or seeing the benefits of modern tactics. Which is why the more inquisitive Smith did far better with those similar resources.

He didn’t do as well as we all thought he should have done, he won’t be the last. He’s had a very profitable managerial career based on being a solid player at a high profile club and a motivator, a nice bloke. I think clubs will now be looking for far more in a manager.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Flin5tone on November 25, 2019, 02:59:08 PM
Thanks for highlighting the Twitter post

Apparently I need a slap for having an opinion on football managers.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on November 25, 2019, 03:21:48 PM
I think he's summed up by his last pre-season.  In his own inimitable style, he wittered on about "having a little go at playing three at the back" which he did for most if not all of pre-season, before ditching it completely for the start of the season.  Then as soon as results started going against him, it was all the fault of the fans.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on November 25, 2019, 03:26:26 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on November 24, 2019, 06:23:55 PM
He could be top of the league and it wouldn't alter that his 'style' of football is shit. Has always been shit. And will always be shit.

My local was pretty much a 50/50 mix of noses and Villa fans when Bruce was at the sty. Even though Small Heath were probably doing as well under him as I could remember in my lifetime the noses I drank with hated the style of football.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on November 25, 2019, 03:31:06 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on November 25, 2019, 02:22:27 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on November 25, 2019, 01:37:15 PM
Quote from: Flin5tone on November 24, 2019, 06:20:45 PM

I can't see much difference in the style of football we play either now than under Bruce, the odd game of 'exciting' football
Wow. 

Just spotted that this has been picked up on Twitter, you might go viral!
https://twitter.com/TheTremontiPick/status/1198677983743168512

I disagree with what Flin5tone says but what a wanker move posting it on Twitter.
It's not me!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on November 25, 2019, 03:32:55 PM
Quote from: Flin5tone on November 25, 2019, 02:59:08 PM
Thanks for highlighting the Twitter post

Apparently I need a slap for having an opinion on football managers.
To be fair with 10 likes and 1 retweet you haven't got too much to worry about.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on November 25, 2019, 03:33:00 PM
I didn't mean to imply it was as I assumed it wasn't you but rather some sad twat.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on November 25, 2019, 03:35:49 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on November 25, 2019, 03:33:00 PM
I didn't mean to imply it was as I assumed it wasn't you but rather some sad twat.
It's ok.  In hindsight, apologies to Flinstone for highlighting it on here.

<edited as first attempt made no sense>
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on November 25, 2019, 03:39:18 PM
I welcomed the appointment of Bruce as the right move at the time and I welcomed his sacking as the right move at the time. I didn't think sacking a manager who had turned the club around in the right direction for the first time in several years so close to the start of a new season would have been a good idea. I credit the new owners with giving the man in the job a chance and I also credit them for acting quickly and decisively when it clearly wasn't working and wasn't likely to change.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on November 25, 2019, 05:25:04 PM
Quote from: Damo70 on November 25, 2019, 03:39:18 PM
I welcomed the appointment of Bruce as the right move at the time and I welcomed his sacking as the right move at the time. I didn't think sacking a manager who had turned the club around in the right direction for the first time in several years so close to the start of a new season would have been a good idea. I credit the new owners with giving the man in the job a chance and I also credit them for acting quickly and decisively when it clearly wasn't working and wasn't likely to change.

That Preston game had a real end of days feel. Mark Bunn in goal, throwing them in after Bruce had lost faith in his long scouted new keeper, Nyland. Didn't we end up with three right backs on the pitch for a finish when Chester went off? Daniel Johnson tearing our midfield a new one. And yet incredibly Whelan missing a pen at end for us to win and possibly keeping Bruce in a job. Even when we won games that time, Rotherham at home sticks out, we really looked a rabble. Change was inevitable.

Smith certainly has a definitive philosophy which is far more progressive and sustainable. But results under him, like with Bruce, are still far too aligned to the fitness and form of Jack Grealish I'd argue. Needs a win tonight.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on November 25, 2019, 05:44:58 PM
Quote from: Damo70 on November 25, 2019, 03:39:18 PM
I welcomed the appointment of Bruce as the right move at the time and I welcomed his sacking as the right move at the time. I didn't think sacking a manager who had turned the club around in the right direction for the first time in several years so close to the start of a new season would have been a good idea. I credit the new owners with giving the man in the job a chance and I also credit them for acting quickly and decisively when it clearly wasn't working and wasn't likely to change.

I can't argue with any of that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: BC Villain on November 25, 2019, 05:57:15 PM
Quote from: brontebilly on November 25, 2019, 05:25:04 PM
Quote from: Damo70 on November 25, 2019, 03:39:18 PM
I welcomed the appointment of Bruce as the right move at the time and I welcomed his sacking as the right move at the time. I didn't think sacking a manager who had turned the club around in the right direction for the first time in several years so close to the start of a new season would have been a good idea. I credit the new owners with giving the man in the job a chance and I also credit them for acting quickly and decisively when it clearly wasn't working and wasn't likely to change.
Smith certainly has a definitive philosophy which is far more progressive and sustainable. But results under him, like with Bruce, are still far too aligned to the fitness and form of Jack Grealish I'd argue. Needs a win tonight.

Not according to "Mr Passion for fancy cars" Lescott on Sky.  Cant see a a set way of playing apparently.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on November 25, 2019, 06:16:58 PM
Lescott has a real chip on his shoulder about us these days, even saying he doesn't support us any more.

https://twitter.com/astonforza/status/1192571662002249728
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on November 25, 2019, 06:37:47 PM
Quote from: PeterWithe on November 25, 2019, 02:49:32 PM
Never had a particular axe to grind with Bruce, he managed to get in some very talented players, and then seemingly had little plan on how to set them up into anything more than an expensive group of individuals. He was quite open about not understanding or seeing the benefits of modern tactics. Which is why the more inquisitive Smith did far better with those similar resources.

He didn’t do as well as we all thought he should have done, he won’t be the last. He’s had a very profitable managerial career based on being a solid player at a high profile club and a motivator, a nice bloke. I think clubs will now be looking for far more in a manager.

He's been gone 13 months, and landed two jobs in that time. I'd say that as long as he wants to keep working, there'll be clubs in the top two divisions that reckon he "could do a job" for them.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on November 25, 2019, 07:39:10 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on November 25, 2019, 06:16:58 PM
Lescott has a real chip on his shoulder about us these days, even saying he doesn't support us any more.

https://twitter.com/astonforza/status/1192571662002249728

did he tweet that accidentally from his arse pocket?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: usav on November 25, 2019, 09:00:19 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on November 25, 2019, 06:16:58 PM
Lescott has a real chip on his shoulder about us these days, even saying he doesn't support us any more.


Not sure if the club will survive that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Yeltzer on November 29, 2019, 12:50:36 PM
Signed a new 4 year deal to 2023
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on November 29, 2019, 12:55:45 PM
Quote
Aston Villa is pleased to announce Dean Smith has signed a new four-year contract.

Dean, who joined as Head Coach in October 2018, successfully led the club back to the Premier League at the first time of asking thanks to a 2-1 victory over Derby County in the Play-Off Final at Wembley in May.

The new deal, which runs until 2023, will see Dean continue an association with Aston Villa that stretches back to his childhood as a supporter on the Holte End.

Smith said: “I’m really happy to have committed my long term future to the Club. I’m looking forward to all the challenges that come with re-establishing Aston Villa as a top Premier League club.”

Christian Purslow, CEO, added: “The Board is delighted that Dean has signed a new four-year contract which puts him at the heart of the Club’s long term rebuilding plans.”
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on November 29, 2019, 12:58:53 PM
I had my doubts earlier on in the season about his suitability at this level but he's done well since early October. Little formaiton tweaks like moving Jack and we were unlucky we ran into Man. City and Liverpool when on a good run.

Now needs to get a few results off the top teams and improve his in game reading but like the team he's adapting fine to this level so overall continues the stability we now have.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: simon ward 50 on November 29, 2019, 12:59:26 PM
He gets my election vote!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aldridgeboy on November 29, 2019, 01:05:26 PM
Just nearly crashed the car when the radio said “ Breaking News at Aston Villa concerning Dean Smith”

But good news !! I hope he’s here for the full term, and beyond.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Demitri_C on November 29, 2019, 01:25:54 PM
This really is great news. Smith has saved this club from utter chaos.

Me for me he will be up there with the villa greats for years to come. Deanos claret and blue army.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on November 29, 2019, 01:41:16 PM
Brilliant news. I wonder if O'Kelly and Terry will be getting new deals too.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Demitri_C on November 29, 2019, 01:51:46 PM
I hope so. Have a feeling Terry will be off next summer if not sooner. Won't be long until management opportunities arise. I think  JT will be a future villa manager also.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on November 29, 2019, 02:04:11 PM
Deserved.

 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on November 29, 2019, 02:04:17 PM
Excellent news. He’s learning the game at the highest level and he’s learning it at one of England’s biggest clubs adjusting to the demands and expectations that come with it. He’s made mistakes along the way but he’s playing with house money with every bit of good will he has deservedly banked since he arrived. He’s done so many good things at the club. A club he loves.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on November 29, 2019, 02:30:46 PM
Great news. Well done Deano.... deserved.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Diablo on November 29, 2019, 02:59:17 PM
Brilliant news!! Delighted for him and us. Now let's climb that table hey pronto (starting on Sunday) and get into the semis of the League Cup. UTV!!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on November 29, 2019, 03:04:40 PM
Congrats Deano! Keep up the good work!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AGRIPPA on November 29, 2019, 03:08:01 PM
Doing a good job, not sure what the future holds but I reckon he deserves this....
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: West Derby Villan on November 29, 2019, 03:49:55 PM
Great news and well deserved
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: p_ad on November 29, 2019, 04:43:43 PM
Great news now he has the time to stamp his authority on the team and club.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Footy-Vill on November 29, 2019, 04:43:55 PM
I 100% trust this man !
He's absolutely superb in how he conducts himself.
Unbelievable coach
Brilliant ethos in learning and developing both himself and the players.
A positive yet realistic attitude with a fantastic attitude in football philosophy.
I actually would not want any other person in charge of  football coaching duties
The new contract is rightly rewarded and renumeration for a premier league performer !
Finally , and I've said this previously, give Smith the time to have his playing squad and he'll do even better than Chris Wilder.
Wilder has the head start and no surprise for me what sheff utd are achieving.
We're Aston villa and I genuinely believe with in 2 -3 seasons providing stay up Villa will be up challenging and more than competitive.
Dean Smith may well win the League cup this season (maybe FA cup too) I think it's great news and I can't be thank ful enough for having him as villa coach !
Up the villa
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on November 29, 2019, 05:20:08 PM
Quote from: Vill I An on November 29, 2019, 04:43:55 PM
I 100% trust this man !
He's absolutely superb in how he conducts himself.
Unbelievable coach
Brilliant ethos in learning and developing both himself and the players.
A positive yet realistic attitude with a fantastic attitude in football philosophy.
I actually would not want any other person in charge of  football coaching duties
The new contract is rightly rewarded and renumeration for a premier league performer !
Finally , and I've said this previously, give Smith the time to have his playing squad and he'll do even better than Chris Wilder.
Wilder has the head start and no surprise for me what sheff utd are achieving.
We're Aston villa and I genuinely believe with in 2 -3 seasons providing stay up Villa will be up challenging and more than competitive.
Dean Smith may well win the League cup this season (maybe FA cup too) I think it's great news and I can't be thank ful enough for having him as villa coach !
Up the villa
Great post. I 100% agree with every word.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on November 29, 2019, 05:21:05 PM
Yet he still keeps picking and playing Wesley.


Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: manic-road on November 29, 2019, 05:26:46 PM
Good news for Dean, hopefully he's still here at the end of his new contract because it will mean he's doing a tremendous job.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT on November 29, 2019, 05:36:32 PM
Great news! Really pleased to hear this.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Footy-Vill on November 29, 2019, 06:23:54 PM
Quote from: Drummond on November 29, 2019, 05:21:05 PM
Yet he still keeps picking and playing Wesley.

That's clearly because it was a sporting director move by Suso rather than Smith.
Smith wanted Maupay but paying 20m for championship players wasn't a gamble they wanted .
A marketing move for a potential Brazil international is far more valuable as an asset both financially and expanding villas global appeal .
Business moves part and parcel but my long stands that Smith will work with anyone and has ability and humility as a coach to help develop players.

Let's just see in the window what happens and what deals happen.
I could debate this but Dean Smith signed Konsa and Heaton and Engels.

He was given pick for a gk after the Kalinic debacle.
Think that Gk move was left over from previous regime scoutlist.

The main thing is Smith knows what he doing and what he wants I like to think Suso will help identify right type of players to fit into deano system. Its been hit and miss with some signings and that's nothing to do with Dean Smith. If anything he's already improved several
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Colhint on November 29, 2019, 06:34:41 PM
I firmly believe that this is the first time in Jacks career that he has ever been properly coached. In the past people have said he is possible England quality, now most fans and pundits want him in the team. Now I know they are not like for like, but to me Sterling is a great player.  his coaches have been Rogers and Pep over the last 6 or 7 years. Jacks have been a bunch of shite to be honest. With Dean I think he will become a great.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Footy-Vill on November 29, 2019, 06:47:49 PM
Quote from: Colhint on November 29, 2019, 06:34:41 PM
I firmly believe that this is the first time in Jacks career that he has ever been properly coached. In the past people have said he is possible England quality, now most fans and pundits want him in the team. Now I know they are not like for like, but to me Sterling is a great player.  his coaches have been Rogers and Pep over the last 6 or 7 years. Jacks have been a bunch of shite to be honest. With Dean I think he will become a great.
That's a great point and example about Grealish development.
It was an inspired move having made Grealish as captain -something I too suggested in past .
I feel very relatable to Dean Smith in the football ideology as have same ideas and philosophy so makes it even sweeter.
I think Grealish feels relatable in the local syndrome as do many of the local fans .
Smith may not have a world wide appeal , as of yet, however people recognise quality coaches when they see one.
The great thing about this one is he's one of villa own and wouldn't leave.
Smith is integral to the growth and wants to grow with the club.
The only thing is the system in place allows for any failure of a coach and can be replaced however I see Smith here for long haul and really think a longer contract should have been given than 4 years.
5 minimum for me.
Everyone here is a big fan and the great football villa play and will only get better.
Its a chance to build a legacy and it's should be at least  a decade of Smith at the helm

The trouble is the business lot constantly look at the financial side , fair enough, but Dean Smith for 10 years  say eve of 2029 and a decade on charge is not far fetched the way he makes this club .

Dean the almighty !!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Footy-Vill on November 29, 2019, 06:50:46 PM
Quote from: manic-road on November 29, 2019, 05:26:46 PM
Good news for Dean, hopefully he's still here at the end of his new contract because it will mean he's doing a tremendous job.

I swear to almighty God if he's here for a decade Villa would have won the league and a few trophies .
Its all in place .
I wouldn't have minded an 8 year contract let alone 4 .
Man does very little wrong.
Values and principles are immense and with the club at his heart and his core only can be one way and that's UP
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on November 29, 2019, 07:06:13 PM
Quote from: Vill I An on November 29, 2019, 06:23:54 PM
Quote from: Drummond on November 29, 2019, 05:21:05 PM
Yet he still keeps picking and playing Wesley.

That's clearly because it was a sporting director move by Suso rather than Smith.
Smith wanted Maupay but paying 20m for championship players wasn't a gamble they wanted.


You literally have no evidence at all to substantiate that claim about Wesley. And in fact it has been Smith all along who has said he didn’t feel Maupay was worth what was being asked for him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TheMalandro on November 29, 2019, 07:09:42 PM
Quote from: Vill I An on November 29, 2019, 06:50:46 PM
Quote from: manic-road on November 29, 2019, 05:26:46 PM
Good news for Dean, hopefully he's still here at the end of his new contract because it will mean he's doing a tremendous job.

I swear to almighty God if he's here for a decade Villa would have won the league and a few trophies .
Its all in place .
I wouldn't have minded an 8 year contract let alone 4 .
Man does very little wrong.
Values and principles are immense and with the club at his heart and his core only can be one way and that's UP

Alan Pardew is the only manager that has deserved such a long contract.
Dean has to prove himself.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on November 29, 2019, 07:18:29 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on November 29, 2019, 07:06:13 PM
Quote from: Vill I An on November 29, 2019, 06:23:54 PM
Quote from: Drummond on November 29, 2019, 05:21:05 PM
Yet he still keeps picking and playing Wesley.

That's clearly because it was a sporting director move by Suso rather than Smith.
Smith wanted Maupay but paying 20m for championship players wasn't a gamble they wanted.


You literally have evidence at all to substantiate that claim about Wesley. And in fact it has been Smith all along who has said he didn’t feel Maupay was worth what was being asked for him.
indeed. Bullshit statements need calling out.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: UK Redsox on November 29, 2019, 07:44:44 PM
How long did Smith’s existing contract have to run ?

Why was an extension justified now ?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on November 29, 2019, 07:49:43 PM
For some reason i've got it in my head that the length of his original contract was never announced, so maybe it was only up until the end of next season, or even this one.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on November 29, 2019, 07:58:37 PM
Maupay has scored 4 goals. Wesley has scored 4 goals.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AV82EC on November 29, 2019, 10:30:33 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on November 29, 2019, 07:49:43 PM
For some reason i've got it in my head that the length of his original contract was never announced, so maybe it was only up until the end of next season, or even this one.

I think it was a two year deal originally, but I have no evidence to back that up, just something I seem to recall when he was appointed.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Flin5tone on November 30, 2019, 12:17:47 AM
If we would have lost against Newcastle the reaction on here would have been a lot different. I'm happy for Dean and would love for us to win a cup under him and get us back to a consistent premier league club but i do wonder why a 4 year deal was necessary, at this stage.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on November 30, 2019, 12:18:28 AM
Quote from: Demitri_C on November 29, 2019, 01:51:46 PM
I hope so. Have a feeling Terry will be off next summer if not sooner. Won't be long until management opportunities arise. I think  JT will be a future villa manager also.

Terry signed a contract extension in the summer IIRC.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on November 30, 2019, 09:01:02 AM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on November 30, 2019, 12:18:28 AM
Quote from: Demitri_C on November 29, 2019, 01:51:46 PM
I hope so. Have a feeling Terry will be off next summer if not sooner. Won't be long until management opportunities arise. I think  JT will be a future villa manager also.

Terry signed a contract extension in the summer IIRC.
Can somebody please tell me what IIRC means?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on November 30, 2019, 09:04:22 AM
IIRC, it's text shorthand for, "if I recall correctly".
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on November 30, 2019, 09:15:10 AM
Quote from: Flin5tone on November 30, 2019, 12:17:47 AM
If we would have lost against Newcastle the reaction on here would have been a lot different. I'm happy for Dean and would love for us to win a cup under him and get us back to a consistent premier league club but i do wonder why a 4 year deal was necessary, at this stage.



Maybe he's been rewarded for getting us up . Either way, i don't have a problem with it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on November 30, 2019, 09:25:32 AM
The timing is a bit weird though. Like Lambert getting a new three year deal after we started a season winning at Stoke and Liverpool. He was sacked six months later. Not that I'm suggesting the same but I would have thought it prudent for the club to hold fire on this until we see if Dean can keep us up this season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on November 30, 2019, 09:26:26 AM
Quote from: Flin5tone on November 30, 2019, 12:17:47 AM
If we would have lost against Newcastle the reaction on here would have been a lot different. I'm happy for Dean and would love for us to win a cup under him and get us back to a consistent premier league club but i do wonder why a 4 year deal was necessary, at this stage.



Did you see a difference in playing styles on Monday?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nunkin1965 on November 30, 2019, 09:30:17 AM
I think in the managerial shitstorm that’s the Premier League it gives us stability to the outside.
Who knows if he gets anywhere near that long but it must breed confidence in the squad and the clubs commitment to him may run off on other players.
I’m well aware that it doesn’t take long for fan opinion to change but it does send out a positive message to those at Villa and elsewhere.

He’s a superb coach btw.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Flin5tone on November 30, 2019, 09:35:47 AM
Quote from: Ads on November 30, 2019, 09:26:26 AM
Quote from: Flin5tone on November 30, 2019, 12:17:47 AM
If we would have lost against Newcastle the reaction on here would have been a lot different. I'm happy for Dean and would love for us to win a cup under him and get us back to a consistent premier league club but i do wonder why a 4 year deal was necessary, at this stage.



Did you see a difference in playing styles on Monday?

I did wonder when that would get brought up

I must have been pissed at the time! My god they were bad!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on November 30, 2019, 09:58:32 AM
Quote from: Vill I An on November 29, 2019, 06:50:46 PM
... I wouldn't have minded an 8 year contract let alone 4 ...

Commercially ridiculous idea.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: BC Villain on November 30, 2019, 10:17:29 AM
Well deserved.   Got to be a while since a Villa boss was offered a new deal.  Probably Lambert?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Flamingo Lane on November 30, 2019, 10:18:15 AM
I think this is great news, and a resounding positive message that the club is well managed and moving forward.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on November 30, 2019, 10:20:51 AM
Assuming he'll have a standard twelve months pay off should the worst come to the worsrt, it's not going to cost us that much and it's a nice feelgood story to boost confidence all round. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Walmley_Villa on November 30, 2019, 11:58:29 AM
Great news, Rewards Deano and gives the club stability on and off the pitch. There is a plan and a strategy in play and we should be grateful. I expect the rest of the backroom to be rewarded - I would imagine Deano would have insisted in it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on November 30, 2019, 12:06:55 PM
Well done Dean Smith. Win tomorrow and you can have another year added on. 😀
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on November 30, 2019, 12:12:37 PM
Quote from: Vill I An on November 30, 2019, 11:41:38 AM
I read hear someone claimed Pardew had an 8 year deal ? Well it's exactly same . Pardew was a palace man I believe so they invested and backed their own .

It was Newcastle that gave Pardew an 8 year deal.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on November 30, 2019, 12:28:04 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on November 30, 2019, 12:12:37 PM
Quote from: Vill I An on November 30, 2019, 11:41:38 AM
I read hear someone claimed Pardew had an 8 year deal ? Well it's exactly same . Pardew was a palace man I believe so they invested and backed their own .

It was Newcastle that gave Pardew an 8 year deal.
<cough cough> <snigger snigger> Why do you spoil every discussion with truth PWS?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on November 30, 2019, 12:58:25 PM
I'm pleased for him, and we're moving in the right direction, but I do think it's slightly strange timing.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on November 30, 2019, 01:06:22 PM
Squeeze extra compo out of whoever comes calling for him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on November 30, 2019, 01:42:24 PM
Quote from: Vill I An on November 30, 2019, 11:41:38 AM
Quote from: Mister E on November 30, 2019, 09:58:32 AM
Quote from: Vill I An on November 29, 2019, 06:50:46 PM
... I wouldn't have minded an 8 year contract let alone 4 ...

Commercially ridiculous idea.

Well exactly . I feel these owners and CEO are  very business minded but that's why they have been success.
On purely football decision Smith would be given a longer term deal than 4 years.
I read hear someone claimed Pardew had an 8 year deal ? Well it's exactly same . Pardew was a palace man I believe so they invested and backed their own .
Smith is a villa man and could have given similar just as statement on how they want the club to be run.
Its not very current to do that however as Pardew and Palace , though he didn't do 8 years , had a loyalty then Dean could be rewarded. But we are realistic to know it occasionally happens as its shown with a club and a former player .

Look what happened to Palace and Pardew.
Please do not use that odious man as an example of anything other than how not to do things.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dante Lavelli on November 30, 2019, 02:03:11 PM
Pretty sure Potter has just signed a long term deal (six years?) so they’re still about.
I wasn’t aware that the standard pay off is 12-months.  If that’s the case then it doesn’t really matter.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on November 30, 2019, 02:07:04 PM
Quote from: Risso on November 30, 2019, 12:58:25 PM
I'm pleased for him, and we're moving in the right direction, but I do think it's slightly strange timing.

Perhaps Arsenal and Spurs came sniffing.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Scovilla on November 30, 2019, 02:12:52 PM
I am pleased about that for vill and for him. Brings stability.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on November 30, 2019, 04:57:17 PM
I can safely say there isn't a chance in hell it's any of those.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on November 30, 2019, 05:26:27 PM
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on November 30, 2019, 09:04:22 AM
IIRC, it's text shorthand for, "if I recall correctly".
Thanks
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on November 30, 2019, 05:42:27 PM
Quote from: Vill I An on November 30, 2019, 02:25:16 PM
Well I think it was something to do with beating Steve Bruce so he demanding a new contract !
Or it was a negotiated clause .
Basically saying look I beat the old regime !
Reward me !

May even be one of those clauses beat an the ex manger within a year period and get 4 years deal.
Kinda like the black Friday deals
Errrrrrrrrr; not.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OCD on November 30, 2019, 06:48:21 PM
More likely there's been discussions for a while now and the timing of it all being done was just a coincidence.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on November 30, 2019, 07:52:54 PM
Quote from: Risso on November 30, 2019, 12:58:25 PM
I'm pleased for him, and we're moving in the right direction, but I do think it's slightly strange timing.
I'm with you there Risso - pleased for the guy but we should have been looking at the reward of a new contract at the business end of the season - maybe the thinking is that he is the right man to get us promoted should we be relegated :)
That sounds odd now I've typed it, however he does know the Championship and his management of our run in last season was quite impressive - let's see how the owners back him in the upcoming transfer window
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OzVilla on November 30, 2019, 08:01:09 PM
Not keen on awarding new contracts to managers mid-season. It inevitably leads to a run of defeats.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on November 30, 2019, 10:47:19 PM
Quote from: OCD on November 30, 2019, 06:48:21 PM
More likely there's been discussions for a while now and the timing of it all being done was just a coincidence.

I’m not sure. Would have looked very odd if we’d lost to Newcastle. Would have been four defeats in a row, and we’d now be in the bottom three.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on November 30, 2019, 11:27:08 PM
Quote from: OzVilla on November 30, 2019, 08:01:09 PM
Not keen on awarding new contracts to managers mid-season. It inevitably leads to a run of defeats.

I'm all for Dean Smith and his approach, but it does seem a bit at strange alright.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: clash city rocker on December 01, 2019, 12:06:26 PM
Good luck to him. I am enjoying our football now more than I have done for bloody years.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Demitri_C on December 02, 2019, 08:33:17 AM
Smith for me is our best manager since O'Neill.  I think he will actually exceed him if we stay up
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on December 05, 2019, 12:18:44 AM
O'Neill was a chancer that eventually got found out. Dean Smith, for all his growing pains is the manager O'Neill pretended to be. Also, O'Neill is and always has been, a c**t.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 05, 2019, 05:39:34 AM
Still has a huge blind spot regarding use of Subs.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on December 05, 2019, 01:33:30 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 05, 2019, 05:39:34 AM
Still has a huge blind spot regarding use of Subs.


I don't agree. i read a lot of this nonsense but it's with the benefit of hindsight and we haven't exactly got a stellar cast to call upon, the best players are already out there playing.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ketzster on December 05, 2019, 01:46:10 PM
Quote from: LeeB on December 05, 2019, 01:33:30 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 05, 2019, 05:39:34 AM
Still has a huge blind spot regarding use of Subs.


I don't agree. i read a lot of this nonsense but it's with the benefit of hindsight and we haven't exactly got a stellar cast to call upon, the best players are already out there playing.

It’s not hindsight; his substitutions and non existent tactical changes were poor in the championship also. It’s been going on since last December
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 05, 2019, 01:52:01 PM
Quote from: LeeB on December 05, 2019, 01:33:30 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 05, 2019, 05:39:34 AM
Still has a huge blind spot regarding use of Subs.


I don't agree. i read a lot of this nonsense but it's with the benefit of hindsight and we haven't exactly got a stellar cast to call upon, the best players are already out there playing.

I don't agree on that one sorry Lee.  It's not just the personnel (akthough Wesley should have gone off last night) but the inability to respond to what's in front of him.  Time and time again we've been overrun in midfield, but he sticks stubbornly to 4-3-3 at all costs.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on December 05, 2019, 02:16:18 PM
I can see both sides on the subs issue. I get frustrated during games when it looks like we need a change, but then again we've had countless managers over the years who've gone to a more defensive system when we're under the cosh and we always still conceded last -minute goals. At least with DS we always look like we could score one right to the final whistle.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Davkaus on December 05, 2019, 02:43:00 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on December 02, 2019, 08:33:17 AM
Smith for me is our best manager since O'Neill.  I think he will actually exceed him if we stay up

Talk about damning with faint praise!

Better than Lambert, Bruce or McLeish, are you sure? :D
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TonyD on December 05, 2019, 06:07:25 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 05, 2019, 01:52:01 PM
Quote from: LeeB on December 05, 2019, 01:33:30 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 05, 2019, 05:39:34 AM
Still has a huge blind spot regarding use of Subs.


I don't agree. i read a lot of this nonsense but it's with the benefit of hindsight and we haven't exactly got a stellar cast to call upon, the best players are already out there playing.

I don't agree on that one sorry Lee.  It's not just the personnel (akthough Wesley should have gone off last night) but the inability to respond to what's in front of him.  Time and time again we've been overrun in midfield, but he sticks stubbornly to 4-3-3 at all costs.
This.   He really doesn’t seem to see how to make changes during a game and adapt to changes made by the opposition during a game.  All managers have their limits, I just hope he can learn quick.   I don’t think he will though as he has been making poor game management choices since he joined.   Shame as I really want him to be the guy.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on December 05, 2019, 06:11:42 PM
Quote from: TonyD on December 05, 2019, 06:07:25 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 05, 2019, 01:52:01 PM
Quote from: LeeB on December 05, 2019, 01:33:30 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 05, 2019, 05:39:34 AM
Still has a huge blind spot regarding use of Subs.


I don't agree. i read a lot of this nonsense but it's with the benefit of hindsight and we haven't exactly got a stellar cast to call upon, the best players are already out there playing.

I don't agree on that one sorry Lee.  It's not just the personnel (akthough Wesley should have gone off last night) but the inability to respond to what's in front of him.  Time and time again we've been overrun in midfield, but he sticks stubbornly to 4-3-3 at all costs.
This.   He really doesn’t seem to see how to make changes during a game and adapt to changes made by the opposition during a game.  All managers have their limits, I just hope he can learn quick.   I don’t think he will though as he has been making poor game management choices since he joined.   Shame as I really want him to be the guy.

I must have dreamt that Rotherham game last season then, and bringing on Hourihane & Green in the play-off first leg.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TonyD on December 05, 2019, 06:16:30 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on December 05, 2019, 06:11:42 PM
Quote from: TonyD on December 05, 2019, 06:07:25 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 05, 2019, 01:52:01 PM
Quote from: LeeB on December 05, 2019, 01:33:30 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 05, 2019, 05:39:34 AM
Still has a huge blind spot regarding use of Subs.


I don't agree. i read a lot of this nonsense but it's with the benefit of hindsight and we haven't exactly got a stellar cast to call upon, the best players are already out there playing.

I don't agree on that one sorry Lee.  It's not just the personnel (akthough Wesley should have gone off last night) but the inability to respond to what's in front of him.  Time and time again we've been overrun in midfield, but he sticks stubbornly to 4-3-3 at all costs.
This.   He really doesn’t seem to see how to make changes during a game and adapt to changes made by the opposition during a game.  All managers have their limits, I just hope he can learn quick.   I don’t think he will though as he has been making poor game management choices since he joined.   Shame as I really want him to be the guy.

I must have dreamt that Rotherham game last season then, and bringing on Hourihane & Green in the play-off first leg.
Much more often than not he watches as we get pulled apart and tired.   
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 05, 2019, 06:18:03 PM
Yes, beating Rotherham *completely* wins the argument.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on December 05, 2019, 06:19:35 PM
If he's such a bad manager and been "making poor game management choices since he joined" how did we get promoted breaking a club record along the way - sorcery? 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on December 05, 2019, 06:28:09 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 05, 2019, 01:52:01 PM
  It's not just the personnel (akthough Wesley should have gone off last night) but the inability to respond to what's in front of him.  Time and time again we've been overrun in midfield, but he sticks stubbornly to 4-3-3 at all costs.
I agree with the need for more flexibility in the team, and being able to respond better to the game in front of him.
Your point about Wesley is that I don't think Kodjia (last night's striker-subb) is a Prem player: he is not dynamic enough in the press. So, Smith's choices up front are somewhat limited.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TonyD on December 05, 2019, 06:30:58 PM
He is not a bad manager at all - he’s a pretty good manager.  But the difference between good managers and those who win silverware is the ability to act quickly during a game.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on December 05, 2019, 06:34:16 PM
Quote from: TonyD on December 05, 2019, 06:30:58 PM
He is not a bad manager at all - he’s a pretty good manager.  But the difference between good managers and those who win silverware is the ability to act quickly during a game.

The team are improving, so is the manager. I'll criticise him when he has the same options on the bench as he has on the pitch.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ketzster on December 05, 2019, 06:35:39 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on December 05, 2019, 06:11:42 PM
Quote from: TonyD on December 05, 2019, 06:07:25 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 05, 2019, 01:52:01 PM
Quote from: LeeB on December 05, 2019, 01:33:30 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 05, 2019, 05:39:34 AM
Still has a huge blind spot regarding use of Subs.


I don't agree. i read a lot of this nonsense but it's with the benefit of hindsight and we haven't exactly got a stellar cast to call upon, the best players are already out there playing.

I don't agree on that one sorry Lee.  It's not just the personnel (akthough Wesley should have gone off last night) but the inability to respond to what's in front of him.  Time and time again we've been overrun in midfield, but he sticks stubbornly to 4-3-3 at all costs.
This.   He really doesn’t seem to see how to make changes during a game and adapt to changes made by the opposition during a game.  All managers have their limits, I just hope he can learn quick.   I don’t think he will though as he has been making poor game management choices since he joined.   Shame as I really want him to be the guy.

I must have dreamt that Rotherham game last season then, and bringing on Hourihane & Green in the play-off first leg.

We were dreadful in the first half at Rotherham. Mings got sent off at the end of the first half which meant he had no choice other than to make a change at half time. I wouldn’t be so bothered if he would occasionally try a different formation, has there ever been another manager that has never tried anything different?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ketzster on December 05, 2019, 06:37:19 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on December 05, 2019, 06:34:16 PM
Quote from: TonyD on December 05, 2019, 06:30:58 PM
He is not a bad manager at all - he’s a pretty good manager.  But the difference between good managers and those who win silverware is the ability to act quickly during a game.

The team are improving, so is the manager. I'll criticise him when he has the same options on the bench as he has on the pitch.

This argument doesn’t work for me. Last season we had better players than Wigan for example when we were totally outplayed. Instead of changing formation he made a triple substitution on 60 minutes and kept things exactly as they were. If December to March last year hadn’t happened your point would have some validity. Grealish got us promoted after he came back against Derby. Before that, when we were reliant on Smith finding a way with the players he had, we were absolutely dreadful. That told us more about Smith than what came after Derby. Having a player who was head and shoulders above everybody else in the league, and Abraham etc. would always eventually lead to a few results
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on December 05, 2019, 06:40:01 PM
Quote from: Ketzster on December 05, 2019, 06:37:19 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on December 05, 2019, 06:34:16 PM
Quote from: TonyD on December 05, 2019, 06:30:58 PM
He is not a bad manager at all - he’s a pretty good manager.  But the difference between good managers and those who win silverware is the ability to act quickly during a game.

The team are improving, so is the manager. I'll criticise him when he has the same options on the bench as he has on the pitch.

This argument doesn’t work for me. Last season we had better players than Wigan for example when we were totally outplayed. Instead of changing formation he made a triple substitution on 60 minutes and kept things exactly as they were

I think it's safe to say that what he did towards the end of the season made up for one mistake.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ketzster on December 05, 2019, 06:42:13 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on December 05, 2019, 06:40:01 PM
Quote from: Ketzster on December 05, 2019, 06:37:19 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on December 05, 2019, 06:34:16 PM
Quote from: TonyD on December 05, 2019, 06:30:58 PM
He is not a bad manager at all - he’s a pretty good manager.  But the difference between good managers and those who win silverware is the ability to act quickly during a game.

The team are improving, so is the manager. I'll criticise him when he has the same options on the bench as he has on the pitch.

This argument doesn’t work for me. Last season we had better players than Wigan for example when we were totally outplayed. Instead of changing formation he made a triple substitution on 60 minutes and kept things exactly as they were

I think it's safe to say that what he did towards the end of the season made up for one mistake.

One mistake? It went on for 14 games where we won 2 games. There were countless dreadful performances during that run. Preston away and Swansea in the cup came before Wigan and Reading away and Hull at home first half came after that for example. One of the two games we won was against Ipswich who hit the post and could easily have drawn. When he needed to find a way he didn’t and he refused to try anything different
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on December 05, 2019, 06:43:57 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on December 02, 2019, 08:33:17 AM
Smith for me is our best manager since O'Neill.  I think he will actually exceed him if we stay up

We had a far superior budget than the two other promoted clubs for starters and many other clubs who will be scrapping to stay up against (Newcastle for example). Getting relegated would be an absymal failure, especially with the likes of Grealish, Mings, McGinn in the squad. Im still relatively confident, and most on here appear to have the same view, that we will stay up with a decent amount of points to spare.

But let's not kid ourselves by building up staying in the division as any kind of remarkable achievement.  Smith's tactics and the clubs recruitment last summer are open to valid criticism.Hence extending Smith's contract last week makes little sense.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on December 05, 2019, 06:45:34 PM
Playing devil`s advocate here ........ with Pochettino being available did our owners miss an opportunity to appoint a tried and tested top flight manager or, show great loyalty and faith in Smith, by extending his contract?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TonyD on December 05, 2019, 06:47:25 PM
I think the team and tactics going into a game is improving.   But the in-game management for me isn’t.   That needs to change to be successful.   Keeping Wes on the pitch last night was ridiculous.  Switching Jack up front would have made sense if he couldn’t see a way to use Kodja.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on December 05, 2019, 06:48:33 PM
Quote from: Ketzster on December 05, 2019, 06:42:13 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on December 05, 2019, 06:40:01 PM
Quote from: Ketzster on December 05, 2019, 06:37:19 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on December 05, 2019, 06:34:16 PM
Quote from: TonyD on December 05, 2019, 06:30:58 PM
He is not a bad manager at all - he’s a pretty good manager.  But the difference between good managers and those who win silverware is the ability to act quickly during a game.

The team are improving, so is the manager. I'll criticise him when he has the same options on the bench as he has on the pitch.

This argument doesn’t work for me. Last season we had better players than Wigan for example when we were totally outplayed. Instead of changing formation he made a triple substitution on 60 minutes and kept things exactly as they were

I think it's safe to say that what he did towards the end of the season made up for one mistake.

One mistake? It went on for 14 games where we won 2 games. There were countless dreadful performances during that run. Preston away and Swansea in the cup came before Wigan and Reading away and Hull at home first half came after that for example. One of the two games we won was against Ipswich who hit the post and could easily have drawn. When he needed to find a way he didn’t and he refused to try anything different

Did you notice us getting promoted?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ketzster on December 05, 2019, 06:49:44 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on December 05, 2019, 06:48:33 PM
Quote from: Ketzster on December 05, 2019, 06:42:13 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on December 05, 2019, 06:40:01 PM
Quote from: Ketzster on December 05, 2019, 06:37:19 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on December 05, 2019, 06:34:16 PM
Quote from: TonyD on December 05, 2019, 06:30:58 PM
He is not a bad manager at all - he’s a pretty good manager.  But the difference between good managers and those who win silverware is the ability to act quickly during a game.

The team are improving, so is the manager. I'll criticise him when he has the same options on the bench as he has on the pitch.

This argument doesn’t work for me. Last season we had better players than Wigan for example when we were totally outplayed. Instead of changing formation he made a triple substitution on 60 minutes and kept things exactly as they were

I think it's safe to say that what he did towards the end of the season made up for one mistake.

One mistake? It went on for 14 games where we won 2 games. There were countless dreadful performances during that run. Preston away and Swansea in the cup came before Wigan and Reading away and Hull at home first half came after that for example. One of the two games we won was against Ipswich who hit the post and could easily have drawn. When he needed to find a way he didn’t and he refused to try anything different

Did you notice us getting promoted?

Yes but like I have said, I put that down to Grealish rather than Smith. A bit like John Terry, Chelsea and the champions league. If we had been left to Smiths tactical ability we wouldn’t have got anywhere near
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on December 05, 2019, 06:52:10 PM
So the manager was at fault when we had a bad run but one player, who he brought back and had the balls to make captain, was the sole reason for a good one? I think I'll leave it there - my head's about to explode. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ketzster on December 05, 2019, 06:54:32 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on December 05, 2019, 06:52:10 PM
So the manager was at fault when we had a bad run but one player, who he brought back and had the balls to make captain, was the sole reason for a good one? I think I'll leave it there - my head's about to explode.

What is so absurd about what I’m saying? Grealish hadn’t been left out for tactical reasons, he’d been injured so in reality he didn’t bring him back. When a player is that much better than everybody else in the league, yes it can have a huge impact. If Smith had tried something different before that Derby game, fair enough, but he didn’t
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on December 05, 2019, 06:56:36 PM
Quote from: Ketzster on December 05, 2019, 06:54:32 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on December 05, 2019, 06:52:10 PM
So the manager was at fault when we had a bad run but one player, who he brought back and had the balls to make captain, was the sole reason for a good one? I think I'll leave it there - my head's about to explode.

What is so absurd about what I’m saying? Grealish hadn’t been left out for tactical reasons, he’d been injured. When a player is that much better than everybody else in the league, yes it can have a huge impact. If Smith had tried something different before that Derby game, fair enough, but he didn’t

Of course it's absurd. One player, no matter how good, is not going to make that much difference. And that really is my final word on the subject. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ketzster on December 05, 2019, 06:59:50 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on December 05, 2019, 06:56:36 PM
Quote from: Ketzster on December 05, 2019, 06:54:32 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on December 05, 2019, 06:52:10 PM
So the manager was at fault when we had a bad run but one player, who he brought back and had the balls to make captain, was the sole reason for a good one? I think I'll leave it there - my head's about to explode.

What is so absurd about what I’m saying? Grealish hadn’t been left out for tactical reasons, he’d been injured. When a player is that much better than everybody else in the league, yes it can have a huge impact. If Smith had tried something different before that Derby game, fair enough, but he didn’t

Of course it's absurd. One player, no matter how good, is not going to make that much difference. And that really is my final word on the subject.

It’s not absurd, it’s an opinion and if you disagree that’s fine. But I don’t think Smith is good enough and I haven’t since the beginning of the year. Promotion didn’t change my thoughts on Smiths ability as a manager.

A manager that sets up the same no matter who you are playing, never changes anything during a game, is slow to make substitutions etc  probably has severe limitations as a manager
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on December 05, 2019, 07:20:02 PM
Bristol City was one of our best performances last season. They had top 6 in their hands, and we ripped it off them.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on December 05, 2019, 07:24:44 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on December 05, 2019, 06:56:36 PM
Quote from: Ketzster on December 05, 2019, 06:54:32 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on December 05, 2019, 06:52:10 PM
So the manager was at fault when we had a bad run but one player, who he brought back and had the balls to make captain, was the sole reason for a good one? I think I'll leave it there - my head's about to explode.

What is so absurd about what I’m saying? Grealish hadn’t been left out for tactical reasons, he’d been injured. When a player is that much better than everybody else in the league, yes it can have a huge impact. If Smith had tried something different before that Derby game, fair enough, but he didn’t

Of course it's absurd. One player, no matter how good, is not going to make that much difference. And that really is my final word on the subject.

Grealish did make that difference. The data backs it up pre that Derby game and post. We were a rabble in that time under Smith when Grealish was injured last season, even when the likes of Abraham and McGinn were available.

Smith did make good decisions, bringing back in Steer for his newly signed keeper for one.

The relevance for this season is that our fortunes still appear aligned to Jack's fitness pretty much.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 05, 2019, 07:27:38 PM
Dean Smith knows just like all other managers in the PL that results will dictate his future. Right now he has earned the right to extend his time as our head coach. But if we are in any danger at all come March don’t be shocked if that new contract he just signed becomes another piece of paper that can be torn up. He’s the right man right now. It will be much down to him to see that remain the case.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 05, 2019, 08:17:51 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on December 05, 2019, 06:19:35 PM
If he's such a bad manager and been "making poor game management choices since he joined" how did we get promoted breaking a club record along the way - sorcery? 

Who on earth said "he's such a bad manager"?  He clearly isn't, but he's also not perfect, and in my opinion his in-game management is one of his weaker areas.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on December 05, 2019, 08:45:45 PM
Crikey, I’m lost for words. Our run from February and also the whole change in culture in such  a short space of time, doesn’t count for anything?

We’ve witnessed such dross for years and years to a really exciting, progressive and exciting style and Smith’s been written off already? He’s transformed this squad in a very short space of time to something quite special. Yes he’s made mistakes but so does everyone.

In all honesty I think we got promoted a year earlier than expected and we just need to keep improving and learning. I really don’t know what some people expect. It wasn’t great last night but it wasn’t as bad as some have said. The Wolves game was more of a shocker but also we have to remember they, like a Chelsea are very good established teams.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on December 05, 2019, 09:02:52 PM
Referring to my earlier post referring to Pochettino - if a more experienced manager/coach comes onto the market we should be ruthless and ambitious - fair play to Smith for getting us promoted but if we want to be successful we need to get the best available - I daresay a defeat to Citeh at the weekend and Salford will be ditching Solskaer (sp?) And going for Pochettino
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on December 05, 2019, 09:58:55 PM
I have noticed a trend on here over recent years. We lose a  game or two and suddenly people seem to lose a bit of sense of reality or lose their shit, maybe a bit of both. Posts like keltzers amaze me really, it's almost as if us getting promoted passed him by completley or the way we were promoted  wasn't good enough for him.

Smith has had to do so much in such a short space of time and it's still a learning curve for him as manager and its also a learning curve for the club as well. Let's just finish out of the bottom three and take it from there.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on December 05, 2019, 10:16:57 PM
I’m with you Clampy. I do get what FCTM says above, sometimes being ruthless works. I get what Risso is saying, maybe Smith needs to act quicker on our substitutions. I also understand frustration especially during the game or even straight after but those posts by keltzers are utter bat shit crazy.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 05, 2019, 10:40:20 PM
Silva and Dick Emery are avilable, let's sack Smith and get one of those.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on December 05, 2019, 10:52:21 PM
Sack Smith? FFS! Have we learnt nothing from the bouts of sacking Managers in the not too distant past?  Whilst I think the new contract has come a bit early, although perhaps a clause was hit, he needs time and support.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nunkin1965 on December 05, 2019, 11:02:52 PM
I hope we don’t make any stupid decisions regarding changing managers.
If we’d consistently been in the bottom 2 or 3 then there is a small element of doubt but we’re not.
We’re in a group of sides that will swop places with each other all season probably and as long we stay up then that’s fine by me.
Personally I’ve seen more than enough to convince me that we’ll be ok.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 05, 2019, 11:06:25 PM
Pardew is available, we should get him. Plenty of experience.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: West Derby Villan on December 05, 2019, 11:49:10 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on December 05, 2019, 11:06:25 PM
Pardew is available, we should get him. Plenty of experience.

Behave, or it's the naughty step for you........
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on December 05, 2019, 11:50:56 PM
Glenn Roeder might do a job for us.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on December 06, 2019, 12:05:21 AM
I will see you your Alan Pardew and Glenn Roeder and raise you a Joe Kinnear.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mellin on December 06, 2019, 01:29:09 AM
Once we've played Leicester 6 of our last 7 games will have been against the top 6. After that it's a more favourable run. Anyone who wants a change needs sectioning to be frank. Look at our previous run of managers. He's had a brilliant year.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on December 06, 2019, 01:30:09 AM
I don't think anyone has been suggesting they want a change, have they?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mellin on December 06, 2019, 01:31:41 AM
Something I heard tonight. Should've stated that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AV82EC on December 06, 2019, 07:27:03 AM
Have just caught up on the last few pages. I think Risso sums up in a fair way the justified criticism of Smith. Ketzsters criticism is “Stuart445 on Benteke” levels of mental.

I think Smith hasn’t quite found his best team or formation yet. He’s blending a reasonable promotion team with new recruits and it hasn’t quite yet clicked. For me the things he needs to fix are:

Sloppy and casual defensive play
How to flex or change his 4-3-3 away from home not just like for like subs.
Strengthening the front 3.

Other than that I’ve seen enough to suggest he’s got what it takes to move this club forwards. He’s learning along the way, he doesn’t strike me as someone who isn’t trying to learn and develop as a coach.



Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 06, 2019, 07:30:56 AM
Quote from: Risso on December 05, 2019, 08:17:51 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on December 05, 2019, 06:19:35 PM
If he's such a bad manager and been "making poor game management choices since he joined" how did we get promoted breaking a club record along the way - sorcery? 

Who on earth said "he's such a bad manager"?  He clearly isn't, but he's also not perfect, and in my opinion his in-game management is one of his weaker areas.
Completely agree, he has bought so much to the club which can not be under valued. But it is also fair to point out his recurring weakness regarding Game Management.
It is a credit to him that his team has got into so many point winning positions considering where we have come from.
But we should have more points on the board.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ketzster on December 06, 2019, 09:59:37 AM
Quote from: Clampy on December 05, 2019, 09:58:55 PM
I have noticed a trend on here over recent years. We lose a  game or two and suddenly people seem to lose a bit of sense of reality or lose their shit, maybe a bit of both. Posts like keltzers amaze me really, it's almost as if us getting promoted passed him by completley or the way we were promoted  wasn't good enough for him.

Smith has had to do so much in such a short space of time and it's still a learning curve for him as manager and its also a learning curve for the club as well. Let's just finish out of the bottom three and take it from there.

If Smith stays we go down and there’s no point in getting promoted just to go straight back down. I don’t think Smith is good enough, and I have said that whether we’ve won games or lost games. So it’s not a knee jerk reaction. As my friends have said, I’ve been consistent on Smith all year. He has a long list of mistakes, whether it’s the never changing formation, keep playing Wesley, not making changes during a game, the players messing around on the edge of their own box etc. Why keep playing 4-3-3 when we don’t have the pace to do so for example? Any other manager would would get hammered for it. Especially as they are repetitive mistakes. The notion he hasn’t found his best team yet, he didn’t last season before Derby either. So that’s twice in a year for prolonged periods he hasn’t, and if Grealish hadn’t come back his managerial ability would have continued to be exposed like it was being. He gets a free ride because he is a Villa fan. That’s great from a marketing point of view but doesn’t necessarily mean he is the best manager we could have for where we are. Results prove that. We finished 5th last season, without Grealish we would have finished near the relegation zone the way things were going when we were reliant on Smith to find a way. And this season we have beaten 4 dreadful teams. He’s a mid championship level manager and with the weaknesses he shows that seems about right.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: in exile on December 06, 2019, 10:09:43 AM
Oh dear
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 06, 2019, 10:16:53 AM
What sort of club would we be seen to be if we fired Smith after all he’s done?
The team does fight for him, there looks like a togetherness. The fans relationship with club and team has been the best for many years. The football is good to watch. We are selling out every week and the bloke got us out of the Division when it looked impossible.
There are so many positive things from the Smith regime.
I am critical of his game management but to suggest we should get rid is truly bonkers.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Billy Walker on December 06, 2019, 10:19:01 AM
Quote from: Ketzster on December 06, 2019, 09:59:37 AM
Quote from: Clampy on December 05, 2019, 09:58:55 PM
I have noticed a trend on here over recent years. We lose a  game or two and suddenly people seem to lose a bit of sense of reality or lose their shit, maybe a bit of both. Posts like keltzers amaze me really, it's almost as if us getting promoted passed him by completley or the way we were promoted  wasn't good enough for him.

Smith has had to do so much in such a short space of time and it's still a learning curve for him as manager and its also a learning curve for the club as well. Let's just finish out of the bottom three and take it from there.

If Smith stays we go down and there’s no point in getting promoted just to go straight back down. I don’t think Smith is good enough, and I have said that whether we’ve won games or lost games. So it’s not a knee jerk reaction. As my friends have said, I’ve been consistent on Smith all year. He has a long list of mistakes, whether it’s the never changing formation, keep playing Wesley, not making changes during as game, the players messing around on the edge of their own box etc. Why keep playing 4-3-3 when we don’t have the pace to do so for example? Any other manager would would get hammered for it. Especially as they are repetitive mistakes. The notion he hasn’t found his best team yet, he didn’t last season before Derby either. So that’s twice in a year for prolonged periods he hasn’t, and if Grealish hadn’t come back his managerial ability would have been exposed. He gets a free ride because he is a Villa fan. That’s great from a marketing point of view but doesn’t necessarily mean he is the best manager we could have for where we are. Results prove that. We finished 5th last season, without Grealish we would have finished near the relegation zone the way things were going when we were reliant on Smith do find a way. And this season we have beaten 4 dreadful teams. He’s a mid championship level and with the weaknesses he shows that seems about right

The guy has got us from (I think) 15th in the championship to 15th in the Premer League in twelve months.  He's turned Tyrone Mings into an England international and completely overhauled the squad into the bargain - he's worked a miracle, in my book.  This season was always going to be one of highs and lows as we try to re-establish ourselves. We have a transfer window to come and it's all to play for. 

If someone had offered me, twelve months ago, the chance for Villa to be in this exact position one year on, with Deano at the helm, I would have bitten their arm off!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on December 06, 2019, 10:23:12 AM
Quote from: Ketzster on December 06, 2019, 09:59:37 AM
Quote from: Clampy on December 05, 2019, 09:58:55 PM
I have noticed a trend on here over recent years. We lose a  game or two and suddenly people seem to lose a bit of sense of reality or lose their shit, maybe a bit of both. Posts like keltzers amaze me really, it's almost as if us getting promoted passed him by completley or the way we were promoted  wasn't good enough for him.

Smith has had to do so much in such a short space of time and it's still a learning curve for him as manager and its also a learning curve for the club as well. Let's just finish out of the bottom three and take it from there.

If Smith stays we go down and there’s no point in getting promoted just to go straight back down. I don’t think Smith is good enough, and I have said that whether we’ve won games or lost games. So it’s not a knee jerk reaction. As my friends have said, I’ve been consistent on Smith all year. He has a long list of mistakes, whether it’s the never changing formation, keep playing Wesley, not making changes during a game, the players messing around on the edge of their own box etc. Why keep playing 4-3-3 when we don’t have the pace to do so for example? Any other manager would would get hammered for it. Especially as they are repetitive mistakes. The notion he hasn’t found his best team yet, he didn’t last season before Derby either. So that’s twice in a year for prolonged periods he hasn’t, and if Grealish hadn’t come back his managerial ability would have continued to be exposed like it was being. He gets a free ride because he is a Villa fan. That’s great from a marketing point of view but doesn’t necessarily mean he is the best manager we could have for where we are. Results prove that. We finished 5th last season, without Grealish we would have finished near the relegation zone the way things were going when we were reliant on Smith to find a way. And this season we have beaten 4 dreadful teams. He’s a mid championship level manager and with the weaknesses he shows that seems about right.


Where exactly have you said it after we've won games because it wasn't here. Instead you seem to have waited until a bad performance away at Stamford Bridge to then come out and say that Smith is shit and has done nothing of note, that you can't even give him credit for promotion reflects a lot worse on you than anyone else.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ketzster on December 06, 2019, 10:26:05 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 06, 2019, 10:16:53 AM
What sort of club would we be seen to be if we fired Smith after all he’s done?
The team does fight for him, there looks like a togetherness. The fans relationship with club and team has been the best for many years. The football is good to watch. We are selling out every week and the bloke got us out of the Division when it looked impossible.
There are so many positive things from the Smith regime.
I am critical of his game management but to suggest we should get rid is truly bonkers.

I actually disagree that the football is good to watch generally. Yes there are good halves occasionally like at Man United, or against Newcastle, but there’s been an awful lot of dross as well. Leeds at home last season to Stoke away was some of the worst football from a Villa side I’d ever seen, and this season there have been glimpses of that like Wolves away and Wednesday night. Of course there are good games, but there were under Bruce and Lambert for example as well. I don’t really know what our pattern of play is. When we played Brighton and they were running rings around us before Mooy got sent off, it was obvious that they had a clear plan that had been coached really well. People moan at Wesley, but they forget there were numerous games where Abraham was totally isolated and did nothing last season. That’s part of the way Smith way of playing football. That’s not to say Wesley shouldn’t do more of course when he does get the ball

The getting us out of the division thing didn’t look so impossible when he first took over, it was the run after Christmas when it was Smith that was in charge that made it look more impossible.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ketzster on December 06, 2019, 10:32:30 AM
Quote from: paul_e on December 06, 2019, 10:23:12 AM
Quote from: Ketzster on December 06, 2019, 09:59:37 AM
Quote from: Clampy on December 05, 2019, 09:58:55 PM
I have noticed a trend on here over recent years. We lose a  game or two and suddenly people seem to lose a bit of sense of reality or lose their shit, maybe a bit of both. Posts like keltzers amaze me really, it's almost as if us getting promoted passed him by completley or the way we were promoted  wasn't good enough for him.

Smith has had to do so much in such a short space of time and it's still a learning curve for him as manager and its also a learning curve for the club as well. Let's just finish out of the bottom three and take it from there.

If Smith stays we go down and there’s no point in getting promoted just to go straight back down. I don’t think Smith is good enough, and I have said that whether we’ve won games or lost games. So it’s not a knee jerk reaction. As my friends have said, I’ve been consistent on Smith all year. He has a long list of mistakes, whether it’s the never changing formation, keep playing Wesley, not making changes during a game, the players messing around on the edge of their own box etc. Why keep playing 4-3-3 when we don’t have the pace to do so for example? Any other manager would would get hammered for it. Especially as they are repetitive mistakes. The notion he hasn’t found his best team yet, he didn’t last season before Derby either. So that’s twice in a year for prolonged periods he hasn’t, and if Grealish hadn’t come back his managerial ability would have continued to be exposed like it was being. He gets a free ride because he is a Villa fan. That’s great from a marketing point of view but doesn’t necessarily mean he is the best manager we could have for where we are. Results prove that. We finished 5th last season, without Grealish we would have finished near the relegation zone the way things were going when we were reliant on Smith to find a way. And this season we have beaten 4 dreadful teams. He’s a mid championship level manager and with the weaknesses he shows that seems about right.


Where exactly have you said it after we've won games because it wasn't here. Instead you seem to have waited until a bad performance away at Stamford Bridge to then come out and say that Smith is shit and has done nothing of note, that you an't even give him credit for promotion reflects a lot worse on you than anyone else.

No I admit I haven’t bothered posting on here for years, apart from briefly last Christmas because I know it’s pointless because I’ll just get a reaction like I’m getting, or like other people that dare say anything would get. Why thinking Smith isn’t good enough would reflect badly on me is beyond me, and it shows that you aren’t actually really allowed an opinion that differs from the parameters of the norm on here
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on December 06, 2019, 10:33:06 AM
Quote from: paul_e on December 06, 2019, 10:23:12 AM
Quote from: Ketzster on December 06, 2019, 09:59:37 AM
Quote from: Clampy on December 05, 2019, 09:58:55 PM
I have noticed a trend on here over recent years. We lose a  game or two and suddenly people seem to lose a bit of sense of reality or lose their shit, maybe a bit of both. Posts like keltzers amaze me really, it's almost as if us getting promoted passed him by completley or the way we were promoted  wasn't good enough for him.

Smith has had to do so much in such a short space of time and it's still a learning curve for him as manager and its also a learning curve for the club as well. Let's just finish out of the bottom three and take it from there.

If Smith stays we go down and there’s no point in getting promoted just to go straight back down. I don’t think Smith is good enough, and I have said that whether we’ve won games or lost games. So it’s not a knee jerk reaction. As my friends have said, I’ve been consistent on Smith all year. He has a long list of mistakes, whether it’s the never changing formation, keep playing Wesley, not making changes during a game, the players messing around on the edge of their own box etc. Why keep playing 4-3-3 when we don’t have the pace to do so for example? Any other manager would would get hammered for it. Especially as they are repetitive mistakes. The notion he hasn’t found his best team yet, he didn’t last season before Derby either. So that’s twice in a year for prolonged periods he hasn’t, and if Grealish hadn’t come back his managerial ability would have continued to be exposed like it was being. He gets a free ride because he is a Villa fan. That’s great from a marketing point of view but doesn’t necessarily mean he is the best manager we could have for where we are. Results prove that. We finished 5th last season, without Grealish we would have finished near the relegation zone the way things were going when we were reliant on Smith to find a way. And this season we have beaten 4 dreadful teams. He’s a mid championship level manager and with the weaknesses he shows that seems about right.


Where exactly have you said it after we've won games because it wasn't here. Instead you seem to have waited until a bad performance away at Stamford Bridge to then come out and say that Smith is shit and has done nothing of note, that you can't even give him credit for promotion reflects a lot worse on you than anyone else.

Tbf, every post Ketzster has ever made is a moan, going back years. Superb commitment.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 06, 2019, 10:33:12 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 06, 2019, 10:16:53 AM
What sort of club would we be seen to be if we fired Smith after all he’s done?
The team does fight for him, there looks like a togetherness. The fans relationship with club and team has been the best for many years. The football is good to watch. We are selling out every week and the bloke got us out of the Division when it looked impossible.
There are so many positive things from the Smith regime.
I am critical of his game management but to suggest we should get rid is truly bonkers.

I like Smith and want him to stay and succeed.  But if he takes us down or we're cut adrift at any point, he should be chopped.  Ranieri won Leicester the title, but looked like relegating them the following season, and after sacking him they'ved ended up with Rodgers and being Liverpool's only challenger for the title this season.  I hope we stay up comfortably and then kick on again next season under Smith, mind.  Which I think we will do, just need to replace the utterly useless Wesley in January and chalk it down to experience.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on December 06, 2019, 10:34:31 AM
We're not going down!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on December 06, 2019, 10:35:24 AM
Quote from: Ketzster on December 06, 2019, 10:32:30 AM
Quote from: paul_e on December 06, 2019, 10:23:12 AM
Quote from: Ketzster on December 06, 2019, 09:59:37 AM
Quote from: Clampy on December 05, 2019, 09:58:55 PM
I have noticed a trend on here over recent years. We lose a  game or two and suddenly people seem to lose a bit of sense of reality or lose their shit, maybe a bit of both. Posts like keltzers amaze me really, it's almost as if us getting promoted passed him by completley or the way we were promoted  wasn't good enough for him.

Smith has had to do so much in such a short space of time and it's still a learning curve for him as manager and its also a learning curve for the club as well. Let's just finish out of the bottom three and take it from there.

If Smith stays we go down and there’s no point in getting promoted just to go straight back down. I don’t think Smith is good enough, and I have said that whether we’ve won games or lost games. So it’s not a knee jerk reaction. As my friends have said, I’ve been consistent on Smith all year. He has a long list of mistakes, whether it’s the never changing formation, keep playing Wesley, not making changes during a game, the players messing around on the edge of their own box etc. Why keep playing 4-3-3 when we don’t have the pace to do so for example? Any other manager would would get hammered for it. Especially as they are repetitive mistakes. The notion he hasn’t found his best team yet, he didn’t last season before Derby either. So that’s twice in a year for prolonged periods he hasn’t, and if Grealish hadn’t come back his managerial ability would have continued to be exposed like it was being. He gets a free ride because he is a Villa fan. That’s great from a marketing point of view but doesn’t necessarily mean he is the best manager we could have for where we are. Results prove that. We finished 5th last season, without Grealish we would have finished near the relegation zone the way things were going when we were reliant on Smith to find a way. And this season we have beaten 4 dreadful teams. He’s a mid championship level manager and with the weaknesses he shows that seems about right.


Where exactly have you said it after we've won games because it wasn't here. Instead you seem to have waited until a bad performance away at Stamford Bridge to then come out and say that Smith is shit and has done nothing of note, that you an't even give him credit for promotion reflects a lot worse on you than anyone else.

No I admit I haven’t bothered posting on here for years, apart from briefly last Christmas because I know it’s pointless because I’ll just get a reaction like I’m getting, or like other people that dare say anything would get. Why thinking Smith isn’t good enough would reflect badly on me is beyond me, and it shows that you aren’t actually really allowed an opinion that differs from the parameters of the norm on here

Your last post of last season was after Stoke away so don't come the "I'm being driven away" bollocks.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on December 06, 2019, 10:36:44 AM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on December 06, 2019, 01:30:09 AM
I don't think anyone has been suggesting they want a change, have they?

Not really, one poster has highlighted concerns on Smith, some valid, some OTT. Others have thrown in Roeders and Kinnears as a rebuke. Truth is in the middle somewhere.

I'd give Smith a bit of a pass regarding his game management at Chelsea. Arguably Hourihane could have gone at half time but Luiz form wasn't exactly hectic going into the game. He clearly has no faith in Kodjia and neither have I based on his form over last 18 months plus. Options on the bench at Chelsea seemed very average generally, four of our outfield subs aren't up to the required standard.

Let's move on to Leicester
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 06, 2019, 10:37:29 AM
Yes there were games under Bruce where we played some football but the football under Smith is usually much more attractive. Put another way I like watching Smiths team much more than any of the most recent managers including Oniel.
There are games when we he has got it wrong and his Rigid tactics are sometimes a concern.
I am in the camp that believes he is not above criticism but also think that he has earned the right to our and the clubs support.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on December 06, 2019, 10:37:34 AM
People who come out with the "you're not allowed to have a different opinion" line are always those that have a really stupid opinion and don't like it when others point it out.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ketzster on December 06, 2019, 10:37:40 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on December 06, 2019, 10:35:24 AM
Quote from: Ketzster on December 06, 2019, 10:32:30 AM
Quote from: paul_e on December 06, 2019, 10:23:12 AM
Quote from: Ketzster on December 06, 2019, 09:59:37 AM
Quote from: Clampy on December 05, 2019, 09:58:55 PM
I have noticed a trend on here over recent years. We lose a  game or two and suddenly people seem to lose a bit of sense of reality or lose their shit, maybe a bit of both. Posts like keltzers amaze me really, it's almost as if us getting promoted passed him by completley or the way we were promoted  wasn't good enough for him.

Smith has had to do so much in such a short space of time and it's still a learning curve for him as manager and its also a learning curve for the club as well. Let's just finish out of the bottom three and take it from there.

If Smith stays we go down and there’s no point in getting promoted just to go straight back down. I don’t think Smith is good enough, and I have said that whether we’ve won games or lost games. So it’s not a knee jerk reaction. As my friends have said, I’ve been consistent on Smith all year. He has a long list of mistakes, whether it’s the never changing formation, keep playing Wesley, not making changes during a game, the players messing around on the edge of their own box etc. Why keep playing 4-3-3 when we don’t have the pace to do so for example? Any other manager would would get hammered for it. Especially as they are repetitive mistakes. The notion he hasn’t found his best team yet, he didn’t last season before Derby either. So that’s twice in a year for prolonged periods he hasn’t, and if Grealish hadn’t come back his managerial ability would have continued to be exposed like it was being. He gets a free ride because he is a Villa fan. That’s great from a marketing point of view but doesn’t necessarily mean he is the best manager we could have for where we are. Results prove that. We finished 5th last season, without Grealish we would have finished near the relegation zone the way things were going when we were reliant on Smith to find a way. And this season we have beaten 4 dreadful teams. He’s a mid championship level manager and with the weaknesses he shows that seems about right.


Where exactly have you said it after we've won games because it wasn't here. Instead you seem to have waited until a bad performance away at Stamford Bridge to then come out and say that Smith is shit and has done nothing of note, that you an't even give him credit for promotion reflects a lot worse on you than anyone else.

No I admit I haven’t bothered posting on here for years, apart from briefly last Christmas because I know it’s pointless because I’ll just get a reaction like I’m getting, or like other people that dare say anything would get. Why thinking Smith isn’t good enough would reflect badly on me is beyond me, and it shows that you aren’t actually really allowed an opinion that differs from the parameters of the norm on here

Your last post of last season was after Stoke away so don't come the "I'm being driven away" bollocks.

Dave, before you swear at me, may I point out that not once have I claimed to be being driven away. Bearing in mind I’ve donated to the site every year for the last 12 or so years and have just done so again, that’s pretty insulting really
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 06, 2019, 10:39:37 AM
Quote from: Risso on December 06, 2019, 10:33:12 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 06, 2019, 10:16:53 AM
What sort of club would we be seen to be if we fired Smith after all he’s done?
The team does fight for him, there looks like a togetherness. The fans relationship with club and team has been the best for many years. The football is good to watch. We are selling out every week and the bloke got us out of the Division when it looked impossible.
There are so many positive things from the Smith regime.
I am critical of his game management but to suggest we should get rid is truly bonkers.

I like Smith and want him to stay and succeed.  But if he takes us down or we're cut adrift at any point, he should be chopped.  Ranieri won Leicester the title, but looked like relegating them the following season, and after sacking him they'ved ended up with Rodgers and being Liverpool's only challenger for the title this season.  I hope we stay up comfortably and then kick on again next season under Smith, mind.  Which I think we will do, just need to replace the utterly useless Wesley in January and chalk it down to experience.
Agree
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on December 06, 2019, 10:40:20 AM
Quote from: brontebilly on December 06, 2019, 10:36:44 AM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on December 06, 2019, 01:30:09 AM
I don't think anyone has been suggesting they want a change, have they?

Not really, one poster has highlighted concerns on Smith, some valid, some OTT.

Yeah, sorry. I hadn't spotted the posts by Ketzster. Also the post that I posted the one you've quoted in response to seems to have disappeared...

So, as you were!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 06, 2019, 10:43:54 AM
Fair enough Ketzster, you're entitled to your opinion.  It's not one that I agree with or endorse, but you've put it across in a reasonable way.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on December 06, 2019, 10:49:39 AM
Quote from: Ketzster on December 06, 2019, 10:37:40 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on December 06, 2019, 10:35:24 AM
Quote from: Ketzster on December 06, 2019, 10:32:30 AM
Quote from: paul_e on December 06, 2019, 10:23:12 AM
Quote from: Ketzster on December 06, 2019, 09:59:37 AM
Quote from: Clampy on December 05, 2019, 09:58:55 PM
I have noticed a trend on here over recent years. We lose a  game or two and suddenly people seem to lose a bit of sense of reality or lose their shit, maybe a bit of both. Posts like keltzers amaze me really, it's almost as if us getting promoted passed him by completley or the way we were promoted  wasn't good enough for him.

Smith has had to do so much in such a short space of time and it's still a learning curve for him as manager and its also a learning curve for the club as well. Let's just finish out of the bottom three and take it from there.

If Smith stays we go down and there’s no point in getting promoted just to go straight back down. I don’t think Smith is good enough, and I have said that whether we’ve won games or lost games. So it’s not a knee jerk reaction. As my friends have said, I’ve been consistent on Smith all year. He has a long list of mistakes, whether it’s the never changing formation, keep playing Wesley, not making changes during a game, the players messing around on the edge of their own box etc. Why keep playing 4-3-3 when we don’t have the pace to do so for example? Any other manager would would get hammered for it. Especially as they are repetitive mistakes. The notion he hasn’t found his best team yet, he didn’t last season before Derby either. So that’s twice in a year for prolonged periods he hasn’t, and if Grealish hadn’t come back his managerial ability would have continued to be exposed like it was being. He gets a free ride because he is a Villa fan. That’s great from a marketing point of view but doesn’t necessarily mean he is the best manager we could have for where we are. Results prove that. We finished 5th last season, without Grealish we would have finished near the relegation zone the way things were going when we were reliant on Smith to find a way. And this season we have beaten 4 dreadful teams. He’s a mid championship level manager and with the weaknesses he shows that seems about right.


Where exactly have you said it after we've won games because it wasn't here. Instead you seem to have waited until a bad performance away at Stamford Bridge to then come out and say that Smith is shit and has done nothing of note, that you an't even give him credit for promotion reflects a lot worse on you than anyone else.

No I admit I haven’t bothered posting on here for years, apart from briefly last Christmas because I know it’s pointless because I’ll just get a reaction like I’m getting, or like other people that dare say anything would get. Why thinking Smith isn’t good enough would reflect badly on me is beyond me, and it shows that you aren’t actually really allowed an opinion that differs from the parameters of the norm on here

Your last post of last season was after Stoke away so don't come the "I'm being driven away" bollocks.

Dave, before you swear at me, may I point out that not once have I claimed to be being driven away. Bearing in mind I’ve donated to the site every year for the last 12 or so years and have just done so again, that’s pretty insulting really

Saying you're not allowed a different opinion and you haven't posted since Christmas because of the reaction you got is much the same thing.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on December 06, 2019, 10:52:58 AM
Quote from: Risso on December 06, 2019, 10:33:12 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 06, 2019, 10:16:53 AM
What sort of club would we be seen to be if we fired Smith after all he’s done?
The team does fight for him, there looks like a togetherness. The fans relationship with club and team has been the best for many years. The football is good to watch. We are selling out every week and the bloke got us out of the Division when it looked impossible.
There are so many positive things from the Smith regime.
I am critical of his game management but to suggest we should get rid is truly bonkers.

I like Smith and want him to stay and succeed.  But if he takes us down or we're cut adrift at any point, he should be chopped.  Ranieri won Leicester the title, but looked like relegating them the following season, and after sacking him they'ved ended up with Rodgers and being Liverpool's only challenger for the title this season.  I hope we stay up comfortably and then kick on again next season under Smith, mind.  Which I think we will do, just need to replace the utterly useless Wesley in January and chalk it down to experience.

Leicester also sacked two more managers before they got Rodgers. The last thing we need is another four in three years upheaval.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on December 06, 2019, 10:55:06 AM
I'm not averse to the idea of sacking managers when they're doing badly, I just don't think Smith is.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on December 06, 2019, 10:57:26 AM
Smith is far from perfect but the criticism ketzster is giving is so ridiculously over the top that it's not worth addressing directly. The one that particularly annoys me is the 'why won't he change the formation' argument that comes up almost any time any manager has a few poor results. The reason is that changing the formation on a whim, midway through a season very rarely sees an improvement, more often than not the performance levels dip dramatically because the team aren't used to the new shape.

However there are, for me, 2 valid criticisms of Smith right now.

Firstly, he could do better with subs, often making them too late when a player has needed to be replaced for 10 minutes before he responds, this one benefits from hindsight a lot though.

Secondly our performances in the 2nd half don't match the first half. we've scored 12 and conceded 6 in the first half of all our games, that's a very good record and he needs to find a way to replicate that in the 2nd half of games, part of this could be the subs issue but I think there's also been some mental weaknesses at times where the players, collectively, can't seem to believe that they're ahead deep into the 2nd half against Tottenham/Arsenal/Liverpool and that plays on their minds.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ketzster on December 06, 2019, 11:01:46 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on December 06, 2019, 10:49:39 AM
Quote from: Ketzster on December 06, 2019, 10:37:40 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on December 06, 2019, 10:35:24 AM
Quote from: Ketzster on December 06, 2019, 10:32:30 AM
Quote from: paul_e on December 06, 2019, 10:23:12 AM
Quote from: Ketzster on December 06, 2019, 09:59:37 AM
Quote from: Clampy on December 05, 2019, 09:58:55 PM
I have noticed a trend on here over recent years. We lose a  game or two and suddenly people seem to lose a bit of sense of reality or lose their shit, maybe a bit of both. Posts like keltzers amaze me really, it's almost as if us getting promoted passed him by completley or the way we were promoted  wasn't good enough for him.

Smith has had to do so much in such a short space of time and it's still a learning curve for him as manager and its also a learning curve for the club as well. Let's just finish out of the bottom three and take it from there.

If Smith stays we go down and there’s no point in getting promoted just to go straight back down. I don’t think Smith is good enough, and I have said that whether we’ve won games or lost games. So it’s not a knee jerk reaction. As my friends have said, I’ve been consistent on Smith all year. He has a long list of mistakes, whether it’s the never changing formation, keep playing Wesley, not making changes during a game, the players messing around on the edge of their own box etc. Why keep playing 4-3-3 when we don’t have the pace to do so for example? Any other manager would would get hammered for it. Especially as they are repetitive mistakes. The notion he hasn’t found his best team yet, he didn’t last season before Derby either. So that’s twice in a year for prolonged periods he hasn’t, and if Grealish hadn’t come back his managerial ability would have continued to be exposed like it was being. He gets a free ride because he is a Villa fan. That’s great from a marketing point of view but doesn’t necessarily mean he is the best manager we could have for where we are. Results prove that. We finished 5th last season, without Grealish we would have finished near the relegation zone the way things were going when we were reliant on Smith to find a way. And this season we have beaten 4 dreadful teams. He’s a mid championship level manager and with the weaknesses he shows that seems about right.


Where exactly have you said it after we've won games because it wasn't here. Instead you seem to have waited until a bad performance away at Stamford Bridge to then come out and say that Smith is shit and has done nothing of note, that you an't even give him credit for promotion reflects a lot worse on you than anyone else.

No I admit I haven’t bothered posting on here for years, apart from briefly last Christmas because I know it’s pointless because I’ll just get a reaction like I’m getting, or like other people that dare say anything would get. Why thinking Smith isn’t good enough would reflect badly on me is beyond me, and it shows that you aren’t actually really allowed an opinion that differs from the parameters of the norm on here

Your last post of last season was after Stoke away so don't come the "I'm being driven away" bollocks.

Dave, before you swear at me, may I point out that not once have I claimed to be being driven away. Bearing in mind I’ve donated to the site every year for the last 12 or so years and have just done so again, that’s pretty insulting really

Saying you're not allowed a different opinion and you haven't posted since Christmas because of the reaction you got is much the same thing.

I can’t be bothered with the grief you get for having a different opinion, so no I haven’t bothered posting. You’ve only got to look at what happened to others that did and it’s just not worth it. Whether they were winding people up or not I don’t know, but somebody who donates to the site isn’t going to be on a wind up.

The Villa are always reactive, not proactive. Look at Southampton when they got Poch, there was uproar over Adkins but they went and got the better manager.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ketzster on December 06, 2019, 11:04:18 AM
Quote from: paul_e on December 06, 2019, 10:57:26 AM
Smith is far from perfect but the criticism ketzster is giving is so ridiculously over the top that it's not worth addressing directly. The one that particularly annoys me is the 'why won't he change the formation' argument that comes up almost any time any manager has a few poor results. The reason is that changing the formation on a whim, midway through a season very rarely sees an improvement, more often than not the performance levels dip dramatically because the team aren't used to the new shape.

However there are, for me, 2 valid criticisms of Smith right now.

Firstly, he could do better with subs, often making them too late when a player has needed to be replaced for 10 minutes before he responds, this one benefits from hindsight a lot though.

Secondly our performances in the 2nd half don't match the first half. we've scored 12 and conceded 6 in the first half of all our games, that's a very good record and he needs to find a way to replicate that in the 2nd half of games, part of this could be the subs issue but I think there's also been some mental weaknesses at times where the players, collectively, can't seem to believe that they're ahead deep into the 2nd half against Tottenham/Arsenal/Liverpool and that plays on their minds.

The changing formation thing isn’t just the starting formation though, it’s the game management changing formation. Surely at Arsenal away for example, he could have tried something different to see the game out? But he never does. No we might not have won but at least he’d have tried something. That’s what drives me mad about him, that he never ever tries anything different
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: darren woolley on December 06, 2019, 11:16:27 AM
I love Dean Smith and I think he's doing a great job we will be Ok keep the faith.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on December 06, 2019, 11:19:51 AM
I'm with Mr Woolley.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on December 06, 2019, 11:21:50 AM
Quote from: Ketzster on December 06, 2019, 11:04:18 AM
Quote from: paul_e on December 06, 2019, 10:57:26 AM
Smith is far from perfect but the criticism ketzster is giving is so ridiculously over the top that it's not worth addressing directly. The one that particularly annoys me is the 'why won't he change the formation' argument that comes up almost any time any manager has a few poor results. The reason is that changing the formation on a whim, midway through a season very rarely sees an improvement, more often than not the performance levels dip dramatically because the team aren't used to the new shape.

However there are, for me, 2 valid criticisms of Smith right now.

Firstly, he could do better with subs, often making them too late when a player has needed to be replaced for 10 minutes before he responds, this one benefits from hindsight a lot though.

Secondly our performances in the 2nd half don't match the first half. we've scored 12 and conceded 6 in the first half of all our games, that's a very good record and he needs to find a way to replicate that in the 2nd half of games, part of this could be the subs issue but I think there's also been some mental weaknesses at times where the players, collectively, can't seem to believe that they're ahead deep into the 2nd half against Tottenham/Arsenal/Liverpool and that plays on their minds.

The changing formation thing isn’t just the starting formation though, it’s the game management changing formation. Surely at Arsenal away for example, he could have tried something different to see the game out? But he never does. No we might not have won but at least he’d have tried something. That’s what drives me mad about him, that he never ever tries anything different

and if he'd changed the formation, whilst we were ahead, and we'd lost the criticism would be that he changed things for no reason. The entire argument is reliant on hindsight and makes assumptions about the result if the change was made, anyone claiming that a change would definitely have altered the result is, simply, talking out of their arse.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 06, 2019, 11:22:45 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on December 06, 2019, 10:52:58 AM
Quote from: Risso on December 06, 2019, 10:33:12 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 06, 2019, 10:16:53 AM
What sort of club would we be seen to be if we fired Smith after all he’s done?
The team does fight for him, there looks like a togetherness. The fans relationship with club and team has been the best for many years. The football is good to watch. We are selling out every week and the bloke got us out of the Division when it looked impossible.
There are so many positive things from the Smith regime.
I am critical of his game management but to suggest we should get rid is truly bonkers.

I like Smith and want him to stay and succeed.  But if he takes us down or we're cut adrift at any point, he should be chopped.  Ranieri won Leicester the title, but looked like relegating them the following season, and after sacking him they'ved ended up with Rodgers and being Liverpool's only challenger for the title this season.  I hope we stay up comfortably and then kick on again next season under Smith, mind.  Which I think we will do, just need to replace the utterly useless Wesley in January and chalk it down to experience.

Leicester also sacked two more managers before they got Rodgers. The last thing we need is another four in three years upheaval.

Agreed, and I hope that it doesn't become necessary.  The last thing we need is to get relegated again.  I don't think it'll happen but Smith and the rest can't sit on their hands in January.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ketzster on December 06, 2019, 11:27:47 AM
Quote from: paul_e on December 06, 2019, 11:21:50 AM
Quote from: Ketzster on December 06, 2019, 11:04:18 AM
Quote from: paul_e on December 06, 2019, 10:57:26 AM
Smith is far from perfect but the criticism ketzster is giving is so ridiculously over the top that it's not worth addressing directly. The one that particularly annoys me is the 'why won't he change the formation' argument that comes up almost any time any manager has a few poor results. The reason is that changing the formation on a whim, midway through a season very rarely sees an improvement, more often than not the performance levels dip dramatically because the team aren't used to the new shape.

However there are, for me, 2 valid criticisms of Smith right now.

Firstly, he could do better with subs, often making them too late when a player has needed to be replaced for 10 minutes before he responds, this one benefits from hindsight a lot though.

Secondly our performances in the 2nd half don't match the first half. we've scored 12 and conceded 6 in the first half of all our games, that's a very good record and he needs to find a way to replicate that in the 2nd half of games, part of this could be the subs issue but I think there's also been some mental weaknesses at times where the players, collectively, can't seem to believe that they're ahead deep into the 2nd half against Tottenham/Arsenal/Liverpool and that plays on their minds.

The changing formation thing isn’t just the starting formation though, it’s the game management changing formation. Surely at Arsenal away for example, he could have tried something different to see the game out? But he never does. No we might not have won but at least he’d have tried something. That’s what drives me mad about him, that he never ever tries anything different

and if he'd changed the formation, whilst we were ahead, and we'd lost the criticism would be that he changed things for no reason. The entire argument is reliant on hindsight and makes assumptions about the result if the change was made, anyone claiming that a change would definitely have altered the result is, simply, talking out of their arse.

That argument would be fine if he ever did try anything different. But you can’t say that playing 4-3-3 for every single minute of every single game for over a year, no matter who you are playing is the right thing to do. No a change might not work, but staying the same has cost us anyway. At times there will have been situations that required a tactical change, you can’t go through a whole season where there haven’t been. I can’t think of another manager that has never tried something different. The opposition manager makes a substitution and you sit there dreading it because you know Smith won’t make a change. That’s not right
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on December 06, 2019, 11:30:35 AM
Quote from: Risso on December 06, 2019, 11:22:45 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on December 06, 2019, 10:52:58 AM
Quote from: Risso on December 06, 2019, 10:33:12 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 06, 2019, 10:16:53 AM
What sort of club would we be seen to be if we fired Smith after all he’s done?
The team does fight for him, there looks like a togetherness. The fans relationship with club and team has been the best for many years. The football is good to watch. We are selling out every week and the bloke got us out of the Division when it looked impossible.
There are so many positive things from the Smith regime.
I am critical of his game management but to suggest we should get rid is truly bonkers.

I like Smith and want him to stay and succeed.  But if he takes us down or we're cut adrift at any point, he should be chopped.  Ranieri won Leicester the title, but looked like relegating them the following season, and after sacking him they'ved ended up with Rodgers and being Liverpool's only challenger for the title this season.  I hope we stay up comfortably and then kick on again next season under Smith, mind.  Which I think we will do, just need to replace the utterly useless Wesley in January and chalk it down to experience.

Leicester also sacked two more managers before they got Rodgers. The last thing we need is another four in three years upheaval.

Agreed, and I hope that it doesn't become necessary.  The last thing we need is to get relegated again.  I don't think it'll happen but Smith and the rest can't sit on their hands in January.

And I don't imagine for one second that they will. It's an easy thing to say, but in my lifetime we've got back to the top flight twice, struggled both times in the first season and had Beyond Wildest Dreams times in the next. Both managers were criticised and both rode it out.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on December 06, 2019, 11:30:41 AM
You're not alone in that opinion, it seems, Ketzster. But for me, one of the primary reasons why I love Smith is that he doesn't change. He has a clear idea of how he wants his team to play, and he's not prepared to compromise. He believes he is right.
He's stated how he not only wants to win, but win well. So do I. I'd rather see us risking it all à la '77 than parking the bus with half an hour to go.
Stick to our football, the results will come. What Wednesday highlighted for me is that attack is our best form of defence. I don't think we've got the players to play any other way, anyway. We'd just get battered.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TheMalandro on December 06, 2019, 11:32:12 AM
Other than a few gripes about substitutions and not signing Maupay, I have no complaints about Smith.

I think he's bloody great.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on December 06, 2019, 11:42:32 AM
Quote from: Ketzster on December 06, 2019, 11:27:47 AM
Quote from: paul_e on December 06, 2019, 11:21:50 AM
Quote from: Ketzster on December 06, 2019, 11:04:18 AM
Quote from: paul_e on December 06, 2019, 10:57:26 AM
Smith is far from perfect but the criticism ketzster is giving is so ridiculously over the top that it's not worth addressing directly. The one that particularly annoys me is the 'why won't he change the formation' argument that comes up almost any time any manager has a few poor results. The reason is that changing the formation on a whim, midway through a season very rarely sees an improvement, more often than not the performance levels dip dramatically because the team aren't used to the new shape.

However there are, for me, 2 valid criticisms of Smith right now.

Firstly, he could do better with subs, often making them too late when a player has needed to be replaced for 10 minutes before he responds, this one benefits from hindsight a lot though.

Secondly our performances in the 2nd half don't match the first half. we've scored 12 and conceded 6 in the first half of all our games, that's a very good record and he needs to find a way to replicate that in the 2nd half of games, part of this could be the subs issue but I think there's also been some mental weaknesses at times where the players, collectively, can't seem to believe that they're ahead deep into the 2nd half against Tottenham/Arsenal/Liverpool and that plays on their minds.

The changing formation thing isn’t just the starting formation though, it’s the game management changing formation. Surely at Arsenal away for example, he could have tried something different to see the game out? But he never does. No we might not have won but at least he’d have tried something. That’s what drives me mad about him, that he never ever tries anything different

and if he'd changed the formation, whilst we were ahead, and we'd lost the criticism would be that he changed things for no reason. The entire argument is reliant on hindsight and makes assumptions about the result if the change was made, anyone claiming that a change would definitely have altered the result is, simply, talking out of their arse.

That argument would be fine if he ever did try anything different. But you can’t say that playing 4-3-3 for every single minute of every single game for over a year, no matter who you are playing is the right thing to do. No a change might not work, but staying the same has cost us anyway. At times there will have been situations that required a tactical change, you can’t go through a whole season where there haven’t been. I can’t think of another manager that has never tried something different. The opposition manager makes a substitution and you sit there dreading it because you know Smith won’t make a change. That’s not right

No, some people sit there dreading it, again, that's on you.

He's tried plenty of different things, tactics don't start and end with the formation. compare the positions El Ghazi was getting into in the last couple of games to earlier games in the season and we quite clearly had a plan to get him closer to Wesley. Look at the position Jack is in now compared to the start of the season. There are plenty of other things we've done for a game or 2 here and there to adapt to a specific threat or weakness of the team we're playing against so he does try lots of different things.

What he doesn't do is roll the dice and make changes on the fly and I don't think he's wrong on that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on December 06, 2019, 11:43:50 AM
Oh, 1 more thing, when was the last time Klopp changed formation for Liverpool midway through a game?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on December 06, 2019, 11:46:39 AM
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on December 06, 2019, 11:30:41 AM
You're not alone in that opinion, it seems, Ketzster. But for me, one of the primary reasons why I love Smith is that he doesn't change. He has a clear idea of how he wants his team to play, and he's not prepared to compromise. He believes he is right.
He's stated how he not only wants to win, but win well. So do I. I'd rather see us risking it all à la '77 than parking the bus with half an hour to go.
Stick to our football, the results will come. What Wednesday highlighted for me is that attack is our best form of defence. I don't think we've got the players to play any other way, anyway. We'd just get battered.

Same here, he plays 4-3-3, every game. The players know thats how we play and what’s expected of them. He’ll gradually buy better players to fit into the system.

He's confident in himself and his system and that’s good enough for me. He’ll still be here in 5 years.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ketzster on December 06, 2019, 11:47:45 AM
Quote from: paul_e on December 06, 2019, 11:43:50 AM
Oh, 1 more thing, when was the last time Klopp changed formation for Liverpool midway through a game?

But that’s Liverpool so that’s a pointless argument because we can’t, and shouldn’t be attempting to do what they can do at the moment with the players that we have. They are the best team in the league, so a bit like us last season after Grealish came back, we could get away with it because we had better players than the other teams. You might as well say there’s no need for a manager to ever make formation changes
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on December 06, 2019, 11:53:41 AM
I still think another striker in January and we will be fine. And that doesn't mean I am writing off Wesley, just that we need another striker. We are having the sort of season I pretty much expected and one that is shaping up to be similar to our last season after promotion to the top flight under SGT. But I do hope and believe it won't go all the way to the wire like it did in 1989. I trust Smith, Purslow and the owners to strengthen us further in January.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on December 06, 2019, 12:05:36 PM
One thing I've learned about Smith is that he sees life as a continuous learning experience. I'm sure that he is developing his approach to fit the requirements of a division that is new to him. Hopefully, he sees the need for higher levels of fitness, ball retention and a more ruthless approach to game management by the players.
His immediate challenge is - of course - to keep us in this division. To do this, he needs (i) more attacking options, (ii) more support for Grealish in midfield and (iii) better levels of concentration and decision-making in the back 4.
I suspect (i) will get done in January (lets hope whoever comes in does not need too long to adjust to the division); (ii) is about Nakamba and Dougie continuing to get up to speed, and (iii) is work-in-progress on the training ground.

Bottom line is of course, that we need results: my concern is that the players look knackered! So, the imediate challenge is how to freshen things up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on December 06, 2019, 12:08:08 PM
Quote from: Damo70 on December 06, 2019, 11:53:41 AM
I still think another striker in January and we will be fine. And that doesn't mean I am writing off Wesley, just that we need another striker. We are having the sort of season I pretty much expected and one that is shaping up to be similar to our last season after promotion to the top flight under SGT. But I do hope and believe it won't go all the way to the wire like it did in 1989. I trust Smith, Purslow and the owners to strengthen us further in January.
  I agree there Damo but also think we need alternatives for Grealish, not necessarily similar style but another talisman that can lead the side by example and occupy two/three opposite players - I see Maupay scored last night for Brighton - maybe we should have been in for him last summer
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on December 06, 2019, 12:09:16 PM
Quote from: Ketzster on December 06, 2019, 11:47:45 AM
Quote from: paul_e on December 06, 2019, 11:43:50 AM
Oh, 1 more thing, when was the last time Klopp changed formation for Liverpool midway through a game?

But that’s Liverpool so that’s a pointless argument because we can’t, and shouldn’t be attempting to do what they can do at the moment with the players that we have. They are the best team in the league, so a bit like us last season after Grealish came back, we could get away with it because we had better players than the other teams

Not really, you said you can't think of another manager who hasn't tried something different, I gave you one. You can add Pep and Poch as well if you like, oh and Wilder too, who might be a comparison you actually accept.

In fact almost every successful manager in the last 30 years has had a shape and style that they build around. In many cases that shape and style evolves over time but not through lurching between formations an hour into a game in a desperate gamble.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 06, 2019, 12:12:44 PM
I think the Chelsea game is a case in point. We were getting torched down our left mainly by Willian and they score from our left. We have seen and Smith must have seen that Hourihane is pretty useless as a defensive midfielder against quick players that run. Target is not the strongest defensive full back either.We get level before half time and Smith has chance to try to prevent the obvious weakness.
He could either bring on Taylor for Target or A Stronger midfielder for Hourihane. He does neither and low and behold they attack down our left Target and a Hourihane are as useful as a couple of shop window dummies and they score, game over.
He then substitutes Luis for Hourihane and we have a lot less problems down our left.
Surely it is not heresy to ask why if people watching the game can see the issue Our coaching team don’t until it is too late.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on December 06, 2019, 12:14:47 PM
Quote from: Mister E on December 06, 2019, 12:05:36 PM
One thing I've learned about Smith is that he sees life as a continuous learning experience. I'm sure that he is developing his approach to fit the requirements of a division that is new to him. Hopefully, he sees the need for higher levels of fitness, ball retention and a more ruthless approach to game management by the players.
His immediate challenge is - of course - to keep us in this division. To do this, he needs (i) more attacking options, (ii) more support for Grealish in midfield and (iii) better levels of concentration and decision-making in the back 4.
I suspect (i) will get done in January (lets hope whoever comes in does not need too long to adjust to the division); (ii) is about Nakamba and Dougie continuing to get up to speed, and (iii) is work-in-progress on the training ground.

Bottom line is of course, that we need results: my concern is that the players look knackered! So, the imediate challenge is how to freshen things up.

I think the 2 bold points and sides of the same coin. We do have spells in the 2nd half of games where we let teams have too much of the ball by not pressing them enough and by giving it back to them too cheaply. Chasing shadows for long periods is far more tiring (physically and mentally) than controlling the tempo and being able to slow things down when we need to. I actually think the mistakes we've seen from Mings more recently come from an acknowledgement that we need to hold on to the ball better but we've just not quite adjusted to holding the ball in defence for longer so we're a little too vulnerable to being pressed at the minute.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on December 06, 2019, 12:20:26 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 06, 2019, 12:12:44 PM
I think the Chelsea game is a case in point. We were getting torched down our left mainly by Willian and they score from our left. We have seen and Smith must have seen that Hourihane is pretty useless as a defensive midfielder against quick players that run. Target is not the strongest defensive full back either.We get level before half time and Smith has chance to try to prevent the obvious weakness.
He could either bring on Taylor for Target or A Stronger midfielder for Hourihane. He does neither and low and behold they attack down our left Target and a Hourihane are as useful as a couple of shop window dummies and they score, game over.
He then substitutes Luis for Hourihane and we have a lot less problems down our left.
Surely it is not heresy to ask why if people watching the game can see the issue Our coaching team don’t until it is too late.

but it's not that simple. If we'd got a freekick 10 minutes into the 2nd half and Hourihane had smashed it into the top corner it would've been the right decision to keep him on, despite the defensive vulnerability. On top of that Hourihane does a very good job running beyond Jack and creating space, again something we have seen be effective at times. Smith decided he wanted to have a midfield to put pressure on their back 4 but they kept the ball too well for us to really take advantage of that choice (other than our goal), in hindsight he got it wrong but given how Chelsea had been playing I can see why he did it and why he wanted to give it more of a chance to work.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 06, 2019, 12:21:42 PM
Quote from: paul_e on December 06, 2019, 11:43:50 AM
Oh, 1 more thing, when was the last time Klopp changed formation for Liverpool midway through a game?

I don't watch that many Liverpool games, so I wouldn't know.  When you're unbeaten and smashing most teams out of sight though, then you probably don't need to alter things that often.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 06, 2019, 12:23:23 PM
Quote from: paul_e on December 06, 2019, 12:20:26 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 06, 2019, 12:12:44 PM
I think the Chelsea game is a case in point. We were getting torched down our left mainly by Willian and they score from our left. We have seen and Smith must have seen that Hourihane is pretty useless as a defensive midfielder against quick players that run. Target is not the strongest defensive full back either.We get level before half time and Smith has chance to try to prevent the obvious weakness.
He could either bring on Taylor for Target or A Stronger midfielder for Hourihane. He does neither and low and behold they attack down our left Target and a Hourihane are as useful as a couple of shop window dummies and they score, game over.
He then substitutes Luis for Hourihane and we have a lot less problems down our left.
Surely it is not heresy to ask why if people watching the game can see the issue Our coaching team don’t until it is too late.

but it's not that simple. If we'd got a freekick 10 minutes into the 2nd half and Hourihane had smashed it into the top corner it would've been the right decision to keep him on, despite the defensive vulnerability. On top of that Hourihane does a very good job running beyond Jack and creating space, again something we have seen be effective at times. Smith decided he wanted to have a midfield to put pressure on their back 4 but they kept the ball too well for us to really take advantage of that choice (other than our goal), in hindsight he got it wrong but given how Chelsea had been playing I can see why he did it and why he wanted to give it more of a chance to work.

You don't need hindsight to see the same thing happening in just about every single away game.  Start off quite well, then get overrun and concede lots of goals in the second half.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ketzster on December 06, 2019, 12:24:13 PM
Quote from: paul_e on December 06, 2019, 12:09:16 PM
Quote from: Ketzster on December 06, 2019, 11:47:45 AM
Quote from: paul_e on December 06, 2019, 11:43:50 AM
Oh, 1 more thing, when was the last time Klopp changed formation for Liverpool midway through a game?

But that’s Liverpool so that’s a pointless argument because we can’t, and shouldn’t be attempting to do what they can do at the moment with the players that we have. They are the best team in the league, so a bit like us last season after Grealish came back, we could get away with it because we had better players than the other teams

Not really, you said you can't think of another manager who hasn't tried something different, I gave you one. You can add Pep and Poch as well if you like, oh and Wilder too, who might be a comparison you actually accept.

In fact almost every successful manager in the last 30 years has had a shape and style that they build around. In many cases that shape and style evolves over time but not through lurching between formations an hour into a game in a desperate gamble.

I know what you’re saying, but bearing in mind how many points we’ve dropped from winning positions, it’s evidently not working not doing anything. He’s great at getting a lead, but it’s what happens afterwards where the problems start and it’s no good getting a lead if you regularly throw it away
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 06, 2019, 12:24:18 PM
40 consecutive posts criticising Smith, vanishing after Stoke and not doing a single post during our record breaking run, not a single post celebrating promotion, reappearing after the Arsenal defeat, vanishing again when we won games. Reappearing after a poor performance.

Welcome back Stuart.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ketzster on December 06, 2019, 12:29:48 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on December 06, 2019, 12:24:18 PM
40 consecutive posts criticising Smith, vanishing after Stoke and not doing a single post during our record breaking run, not a single post celebrating promotion, reappearing after the Arsenal defeat, vanishing again when we won games. Reappearing after a poor performance.

Welcome back Stuart.

Posts like that just prove my point don’t they. Go and look at my muppets history and tell me how many years I’ve donated
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on December 06, 2019, 12:31:23 PM
Quote from: Ketzster on December 06, 2019, 12:24:13 PM
I know what you’re saying, but bearing in mind how many points we’ve dropped from winning positions, it’s evidently not working not doing anything. He’s great at getting a lead, but it’s what happens afterwards where the problems start and it’s no good getting a lead if you regularly throw it away
I don't necessarily associate losing the lead to poor management - although it may be. What I'm seeing is insufficient fitness levels and opponents who (a) are established EPL teams and (b) have some outstanding players.

Lest we forget, we have played against some very good sides and not been disgraced.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 06, 2019, 12:33:04 PM
Why does that matter. Why vanish as soon as we started winning, and during a record winning run, and after promotion, and after wins. Why only post about the manager.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on December 06, 2019, 12:34:50 PM
I'm trying to imagine the alternative universe where bringing on Neil Taylor improves us.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ketzster on December 06, 2019, 12:36:44 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on December 06, 2019, 12:33:04 PM
Why does that matter. Why vanish as soon as we started winning, and during a record winning run, and after promotion, and after wins. Why only post about the manager.

It does matter because unlike the others that got picked on for having a different opinion, I’m beginning to wish I hadn’t bothered. I’m not Stuart445 and never have been. I’ve actually paid my contribution to the site. That counts for something. I’m not abusive, I haven’t sworn at anybody and I haven’t criticised anybody for having an opinion. I don’t post because this happens and I know I disagree with the majority. I’m not saying my opinion isn’t out there, but it’s my opinion and I stand by it. I want to be wrong but I don’t think I am or will be
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 06, 2019, 12:38:57 PM
It really doesn't matter to the questions i'm asking. I haven't said you aren't entitled to your opinion have I, I have asked why you stopped posting as soon as we started winning etc.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on December 06, 2019, 12:42:13 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on December 06, 2019, 12:24:18 PM
40 consecutive posts criticising Smith, vanishing after Stoke and not doing a single post during our record breaking run, not a single post celebrating promotion, reappearing after the Arsenal defeat, vanishing again when we won games. Reappearing after a poor performance.

Welcome back Stuart.

What a strange way to behave. Do some people not enjoy Villa winning matches if it means they have to change their opinion on the man responsible?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on December 06, 2019, 12:42:20 PM
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on December 06, 2019, 12:34:50 PM
I'm trying to imagine the alternative universe where bringing on Neil Taylor improves us.

Defensively but I'd stick with Targett for games at Villa Park. His attacking threat is something we'll need. Who do Leicester have on the right wing?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: phantom limb on December 06, 2019, 12:43:19 PM
I think it’s hard to be objective about the team that you support, as there is always the emotional attachment. Also it’s very easy to be critical as we take in so much information about the club on a regular basis, we have plenty of ammunition if required. I remember being annoyed when Norwich scored their consolation goal against us a few weeks ago, which other people couldn’t understand: “You won comfortably, what does it matter?”

Fans of other teams that I know think that we’re doing fine, and are in no bother of getting relegated again. Plus some of these fans actively want to us to go back down again but have had to admit that we’ve massively surprised them; especially after buying so many new players in the summer. They thought/hoped it would be a total mess, with Smith sacked after a few losses and us bottom for all of the season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ketzster on December 06, 2019, 12:45:35 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on December 06, 2019, 12:38:57 PM
It really doesn't matter to the questions i'm asking. I haven't said you aren't entitled to your opinion have I, I have asked why you stopped posting as soon as we started winning etc.

Because I’m not somebody who needs to post on a forum regularly. I enjoy reading the forum hence why I feel I should contribute my tiny sum each year. I posted after Chelsea because I’ve seen too many performances like it this year, and keep seeing everybody say they still love Smith when for me another manager would be being questioned. I kept seeing people saying nobody wants Smith out, when I’m sat there thinking I do want a change rightly or wrongly and have done since Wigan away. Even after promotion because I’d seen enough before Derby to have severe doubts that I can’t shake. We didn’t get up because of anything Smith changed after Stoke, we got up purely because he had the best player the championship has probably ever seen return. We were shockingly bad before that when we were reliant on Smith to do something. If people don’t want to question Smith that’s absolutely fine, but I’m entitled to post my opinions when I choose without people getting so annoyed about it. It doesn’t happen the other way around, people don’t get grief for saying they love Smith.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on December 06, 2019, 12:47:29 PM
Has anyone said you can't voice your opinion? Your persecution complex doesn't help your argument.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on December 06, 2019, 12:49:27 PM
We’ve got to become more confident we must start believing in ourselves a bit more
When we do We play our best football

Apparently if the league was based just on results at half time we would be in second place
if that’s true it’s a ridiculous stat, makes us look proper bottlers
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on December 06, 2019, 12:50:40 PM
Yeah, apart from an extra forward I think we could do with an extra leader in midfield to help us with defending leads. I don't know how you fit them in, though...
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ketzster on December 06, 2019, 12:51:29 PM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on December 06, 2019, 12:47:29 PM
Has anyone said you can't voice your opinion? Your persecution complex doesn't help your argument.

Oh come on, some of the posts where people become slightly confrontational or the one calling me Stuart445 above are totally uncalled for surely. So yes, they are pretty much saying you can’t voice that opinion I’m afraid, whatever you say
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on December 06, 2019, 12:54:39 PM
Quote from: Ketzster on December 06, 2019, 12:51:29 PM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on December 06, 2019, 12:47:29 PM
Has anyone said you can't voice your opinion? Your persecution complex doesn't help your argument.

Oh come on, some of the posts where people become slightly confrontational or the one calling me Stuart445 above are totally uncalled for surely. So yes, they are pretty much saying you can’t voice that opinion I’m afraid, whatever you say


in fairness being called stuart445 is shocking, well below the belt
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 06, 2019, 12:59:14 PM
And yet plenty of people question stuff about Smith, but they don't post solely about him and vanish whenever we win. Same as plenty question Wes, Taylor etc but they still give praise where due and enjoyed our record winning run, promotion etc. And people get questioned all the time on here whether they are for or against someone/something. And again, where has anyone said you aren't entitled to post your opinion, you are fully entitled to post it, and others are fully entitled to question it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on December 06, 2019, 01:03:37 PM
I don’t know why people get upset about other posters giving them shit about something they don’t agree with

I live for that on here

nothing better than having a rare up with someone you don’t actually know about something you’ll never agree on
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on December 06, 2019, 01:05:18 PM
Can't be stuart445, he was seen just 20 minutes ago with a couple of King Doners celebrating his Dad's victory last night. Which gets me thinking, what do they eat on Christmas Day in the Bruce family household?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: rougegorge on December 06, 2019, 01:12:32 PM
I think people on here should be able to express their view as long as it is not abusive to players, management and fellow posters; equally people should disagree or agree as they wish, and sarcastic and derisory posts aren't helpful either. If there were no differing views then the forum just becomes pointless.

I think Smith did very well to get us up and although we are reliant on Jack to a worrying degree and he was the catalyst for our great run last season, he didn't carry us alone to 10 wins in a row.

Smith clearly likes a 4-3-3 and where he has gone wrong thus far is not having good enough players in the 3 at the front and not having any adaptive formation.  El Ghazi may well become good enough to start regularly, whilst Trezeguet is a trier and I don't think Jota is the answer, even allowing for his injury. I don't think Wesley is equipped to play in a 4-3-3, or is good enough for the Prem at the moment, and I think we need forwards that are better to play in that formation.

Let's hope the scouting for forwards is better for the January window and that we have targets ready to go for on January 1st.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on December 06, 2019, 01:14:53 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on December 06, 2019, 01:05:18 PM
Can't be stuart445, he was seen just 20 minutes ago with a couple of King Doners celebrating his Dad's victory last night. Which gets me thinking, what do they eat on Christmas Day in the Bruce family household?

Lots.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on December 06, 2019, 01:25:38 PM
Quote from: Ketzster on December 06, 2019, 12:29:48 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on December 06, 2019, 12:24:18 PM
40 consecutive posts criticising Smith, vanishing after Stoke and not doing a single post during our record breaking run, not a single post celebrating promotion, reappearing after the Arsenal defeat, vanishing again when we won games. Reappearing after a poor performance.

Welcome back Stuart.

Posts like that just prove my point don’t they. Go and look at my muppets history and tell me how many years I’ve donated

I can't see how much you've donated has to do with anything. If my club had won promotion, espcially in the way we did, I'd be on here joining in the congratulations. Instead, it seems that you've waited till we've had a few defeats to come back and have a go. I don't get it. It's all very negative. If you can' only be bothered to come on here when things are not right, then I can only think you must be a hoot and a half to sit at the match with.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on December 06, 2019, 01:26:26 PM
Quote from: john e on December 06, 2019, 01:03:37 PM
I don’t know why people get upset about other posters giving them shit about something they don’t agree with

I live for that on here

nothing better than having a rare up with someone you don’t actually know about something you’ll never agree on


Too right!
"What you doing"
"Nothing..."
"Then why are you on your phone?"
*averts gaze*
*mumbles*
"Arguing with my imaginary friends.."
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ketzster on December 06, 2019, 01:49:35 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on December 06, 2019, 12:59:14 PM
And yet plenty of people question stuff about Smith, but they don't post solely about him and vanish whenever we win. Same as plenty question Wes, Taylor etc but they still give praise where due and enjoyed our record winning run, promotion etc. And people get questioned all the time on here whether they are for or against someone/something. And again, where has anyone said you aren't entitled to post your opinion, you are fully entitled to post it, and others are fully entitled to question it.

I’ve answered your questions. And to whoever says it doesn’t matter about contributing to to the site, maybe not but I don’t expect to be sworn at by Dave Woodhall after I’ve just paid money to his site. You haven’t answered how calling me Stuart445 is acceptable either
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on December 06, 2019, 01:54:37 PM
Quote from: Ketzster on December 06, 2019, 01:49:35 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on December 06, 2019, 12:59:14 PM
And yet plenty of people question stuff about Smith, but they don't post solely about him and vanish whenever we win. Same as plenty question Wes, Taylor etc but they still give praise where due and enjoyed our record winning run, promotion etc. And people get questioned all the time on here whether they are for or against someone/something. And again, where has anyone said you aren't entitled to post your opinion, you are fully entitled to post it, and others are fully entitled to question it.

I’ve answered your questions. And to whoever says it doesn’t matter about contributing to to the site, maybe not but I don’t expect to be sworn at by Dave Woodhall after I’ve just paid money to his site. You haven’t answered how calling me Stuart445 is acceptable either

You weren't sworn at, so less of the victim.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ketzster on December 06, 2019, 01:59:25 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on December 06, 2019, 01:54:37 PM
Quote from: Ketzster on December 06, 2019, 01:49:35 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on December 06, 2019, 12:59:14 PM
And yet plenty of people question stuff about Smith, but they don't post solely about him and vanish whenever we win. Same as plenty question Wes, Taylor etc but they still give praise where due and enjoyed our record winning run, promotion etc. And people get questioned all the time on here whether they are for or against someone/something. And again, where has anyone said you aren't entitled to post your opinion, you are fully entitled to post it, and others are fully entitled to question it.

I’ve answered your questions. And to whoever says it doesn’t matter about contributing to to the site, maybe not but I don’t expect to be sworn at by Dave Woodhall after I’ve just paid money to his site. You haven’t answered how calling me Stuart445 is acceptable either

You weren't sworn at, so less of the victim.

I was, and I’m not playing the victim. I’m not that pathetic. All of your posts to me yesterday and this morning have been slightly confrontational. If you think the tone of them is acceptable that’s fine, but it answers the questions as to why I don’t bother posting on here very often. It’s a complete waste of time but it’s your site and you can do whatever you want, I accept that
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: in exile on December 06, 2019, 02:00:58 PM
I don't know who you are but you're boring the bollocks off me
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on December 06, 2019, 02:10:20 PM
Quote from: in exile on December 06, 2019, 02:00:58 PM
I don't know who you are but you're boring the bollocks off me

x2
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on December 06, 2019, 02:12:27 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on December 06, 2019, 01:05:18 PM
Can't be stuart445, he was seen just 20 minutes ago with a couple of King Doners celebrating his Dad's victory last night. Which gets me thinking, what do they eat on Christmas Day in the Bruce family household?

Plenty judging by the look of Steve these days.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on December 06, 2019, 02:17:24 PM
Quote from: Ketzster on December 06, 2019, 01:59:25 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on December 06, 2019, 01:54:37 PM
Quote from: Ketzster on December 06, 2019, 01:49:35 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on December 06, 2019, 12:59:14 PM
And yet plenty of people question stuff about Smith, but they don't post solely about him and vanish whenever we win. Same as plenty question Wes, Taylor etc but they still give praise where due and enjoyed our record winning run, promotion etc. And people get questioned all the time on here whether they are for or against someone/something. And again, where has anyone said you aren't entitled to post your opinion, you are fully entitled to post it, and others are fully entitled to question it.

I’ve answered your questions. And to whoever says it doesn’t matter about contributing to to the site, maybe not but I don’t expect to be sworn at by Dave Woodhall after I’ve just paid money to his site. You haven’t answered how calling me Stuart445 is acceptable either

You weren't sworn at, so less of the victim.

I was, and I’m not playing the victim. I’m not that pathetic. All of your posts to me yesterday and this morning have been slightly confrontational. If you think the tone of them is acceptable that’s fine, but it answers the questions as to why I don’t bother posting on here very often. It’s a complete waste of time but it’s your site and you can do whatever you want, I accept that

Just for the record your final post of last season wasn't at Christmas, it was after the Stoke match on 23rd February. Nobody as far as I can see replied to it, so you weren't shouted down, ganged up on or "not allowed my opinion". You stopped posting.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on December 06, 2019, 02:19:55 PM
Quote from: LeeB on December 06, 2019, 02:10:20 PM
Quote from: in exile on December 06, 2019, 02:00:58 PM
I don't know who you are but you're boring the bollocks off me

x2

I’m sort of enjoying it

but then I am in bed with man flu
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 06, 2019, 02:20:30 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 06, 2019, 12:23:23 PM
Quote from: paul_e on December 06, 2019, 12:20:26 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 06, 2019, 12:12:44 PM
I think the Chelsea game is a case in point. We were getting torched down our left mainly by Willian and they score from our left. We have seen and Smith must have seen that Hourihane is pretty useless as a defensive midfielder against quick players that run. Target is not the strongest defensive full back either.We get level before half time and Smith has chance to try to prevent the obvious weakness.
He could either bring on Taylor for Target or A Stronger midfielder for Hourihane. He does neither and low and behold they attack down our left Target and a Hourihane are as useful as a couple of shop window dummies and they score, game over.
He then substitutes Luis for Hourihane and we have a lot less problems down our left.
Surely it is not heresy to ask why if people watching the game can see the issue Our coaching team don’t until it is too late.

but it's not that simple. If we'd got a freekick 10 minutes into the 2nd half and Hourihane had smashed it into the top corner it would've been the right decision to keep him on, despite the defensive vulnerability. On top of that Hourihane does a very good job running beyond Jack and creating space, again something we have seen be effective at times. Smith decided he wanted to have a midfield to put pressure on their back 4 but they kept the ball too well for us to really take advantage of that choice (other than our goal), in hindsight he got it wrong but given how Chelsea had been playing I can see why he did it and why he wanted to give it more of a chance to work.

You don't need hindsight to see the same thing happening in just about every single away game.  Start off quite well, then get overrun and concede lots of goals in the second half.
Exactly, there could be reasons, fatigue, not having suitable replacements but the fact that our second half performances away from home have been woefull suggests that something is not right and the only person that can change this is the manager.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on December 06, 2019, 02:24:12 PM
Quote from: john e on December 06, 2019, 02:19:55 PM
Quote from: LeeB on December 06, 2019, 02:10:20 PM
Quote from: in exile on December 06, 2019, 02:00:58 PM
I don't know who you are but you're boring the bollocks off me

x2

I’m sort of enjoying it

but then I am in bed with man flu


Is Man Flu your Thai 'pen pal'?  ;)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on December 06, 2019, 02:26:30 PM
Quote from: john e on December 06, 2019, 01:03:37 PM
I don’t know why people get upset about other posters giving them shit about something they don’t agree with

I live for that on here

nothing better than having a rare up with someone you don’t actually know about something you’ll never agree on

Bollocks, no there isn't.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on December 06, 2019, 02:29:19 PM
Quote from: Damo70 on December 06, 2019, 02:24:12 PM
Quote from: john e on December 06, 2019, 02:19:55 PM
Quote from: LeeB on December 06, 2019, 02:10:20 PM
Quote from: in exile on December 06, 2019, 02:00:58 PM
I don't know who you are but you're boring the bollocks off me

x2

I’m sort of enjoying it

but then I am in bed with man flu


Is Man Flu your Thai 'pen pal'?  ;)

I'll never use that expression again.

'I've got Man Flu'
'Where?'
'Erm, on the end of my cock'
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on December 06, 2019, 02:33:45 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 06, 2019, 02:20:30 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 06, 2019, 12:23:23 PM
Quote from: paul_e on December 06, 2019, 12:20:26 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 06, 2019, 12:12:44 PM
I think the Chelsea game is a case in point. We were getting torched down our left mainly by Willian and they score from our left. We have seen and Smith must have seen that Hourihane is pretty useless as a defensive midfielder against quick players that run. Target is not the strongest defensive full back either.We get level before half time and Smith has chance to try to prevent the obvious weakness.
He could either bring on Taylor for Target or A Stronger midfielder for Hourihane. He does neither and low and behold they attack down our left Target and a Hourihane are as useful as a couple of shop window dummies and they score, game over.
He then substitutes Luis for Hourihane and we have a lot less problems down our left.
Surely it is not heresy to ask why if people watching the game can see the issue Our coaching team don’t until it is too late.

but it's not that simple. If we'd got a freekick 10 minutes into the 2nd half and Hourihane had smashed it into the top corner it would've been the right decision to keep him on, despite the defensive vulnerability. On top of that Hourihane does a very good job running beyond Jack and creating space, again something we have seen be effective at times. Smith decided he wanted to have a midfield to put pressure on their back 4 but they kept the ball too well for us to really take advantage of that choice (other than our goal), in hindsight he got it wrong but given how Chelsea had been playing I can see why he did it and why he wanted to give it more of a chance to work.

You don't need hindsight to see the same thing happening in just about every single away game.  Start off quite well, then get overrun and concede lots of goals in the second half.
Exactly, there could be reasons, fatigue, not having suitable replacements but the fact that our second half performances away from home have been woefull suggests that something is not right and the only person that can change this is the manager.

I don't disagree with that but the list of possible reasons (and there are many others alongside the ones you've given) extends well beyond Smith not making subs when we'd like and/or changing the formation, which is the specific bit I don't like because I think it's far too simplistic.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 06, 2019, 04:14:12 PM
Quote from: Ketzster on December 06, 2019, 01:49:35 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on December 06, 2019, 12:59:14 PM
And yet plenty of people question stuff about Smith, but they don't post solely about him and vanish whenever we win. Same as plenty question Wes, Taylor etc but they still give praise where due and enjoyed our record winning run, promotion etc. And people get questioned all the time on here whether they are for or against someone/something. And again, where has anyone said you aren't entitled to post your opinion, you are fully entitled to post it, and others are fully entitled to question it.

I’ve answered your questions. And to whoever says it doesn’t matter about contributing to to the site, maybe not but I don’t expect to be sworn at by Dave Woodhall after I’ve just paid money to his site. You haven’t answered how calling me Stuart445 is acceptable either

No you haven't. All you've done is say you paid GM status so no one should question why you said nothing for months when we were winning and being promoted.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sdwbvf on December 06, 2019, 04:29:46 PM
Deleted. Doesn't  make sense. I was on catch up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ketzster on December 06, 2019, 04:35:28 PM
Quote from: Ketzster on December 06, 2019, 12:45:35 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on December 06, 2019, 12:38:57 PM
It really doesn't matter to the questions i'm asking. I haven't said you aren't entitled to your opinion have I, I have asked why you stopped posting as soon as we started winning etc.

Because I’m not somebody who needs to post on a forum regularly. I enjoy reading the forum hence why I feel I should contribute my tiny sum each year. I posted after Chelsea because I’ve seen too many performances like it this year, and keep seeing everybody say they still love Smith when for me another manager would be being questioned. I kept seeing people saying nobody wants Smith out, when I’m sat there thinking I do want a change rightly or wrongly and have done since Wigan away. Even after promotion because I’d seen enough before Derby to have severe doubts that I can’t shake. We didn’t get up because of anything Smith changed after Stoke, we got up purely because he had the best player the championship has probably ever seen return. We were shockingly bad before that when we were reliant on Smith to do something. If people don’t want to question Smith that’s absolutely fine, but I’m entitled to post my opinions when I choose without people getting so annoyed about it. It doesn’t happen the other way around, people don’t get grief for saying they love Smith.

PWS, I answered you here
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 06, 2019, 04:46:09 PM
It doesn't answer what I asked, but i'm in too good a mood to care.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ketzster on December 06, 2019, 04:55:58 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on December 06, 2019, 04:46:09 PM
It doesn't answer what I asked, but i'm in too good a mood to care.

Where doesn’t it answer what you asked? I don’t want to post regularly on a forum, that’s why I have rarely posted after defeats as well. I’m not sure what answer you’re looking for. Yes I have only posted after defeats, but why does that matter? And no, despite what Dave Woodhall says, nowhere did I say that I hadn’t posted since Christmas. I knew full well my last post was after Stoke. I probably won’t post again for years, but that doesn’t mean I am Stuart445 or somebody on a wind up. I haven’t once said I’m being hounded out like others have said I am saying, or played the victim, but I do think there is a way of responding to people that is unacceptable. I simply posted to say I don’t think Smith is good enough and people don’t like it. At no point was I looking for an argument
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on December 06, 2019, 07:25:30 PM
Quote from: Ketzster on December 06, 2019, 04:55:58 PM
And no, despite what Dave Woodhall says, nowhere did I say that I hadn’t posted since Christmas.

Quote from: Ketzster on December 06, 2019, 10:32:30 AM
No I admit I haven’t bothered posting on here for years, apart from briefly last Christmas


Quote from: Ketzster on December 06, 2019, 04:55:58 PM
I haven’t once said I’m being hounded out like others have said I am saying, or played the victim,

Quote from: Ketzster on December 06, 2019, 12:36:44 PM


unlike the others that got picked on for having a different opinion, I’m beginning to wish I hadn’t bothered.

Quote from: Ketzster on December 06, 2019, 11:01:46 AM


I can’t be bothered with the grief you get for having a different opinion, so no I haven’t bothered posting. You’ve only got to look at what happened to others that did and it’s just not worth it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on December 06, 2019, 10:22:53 PM
Quote from: Ketzster on December 06, 2019, 04:55:58 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on December 06, 2019, 04:46:09 PM
It doesn't answer what I asked, but i'm in too good a mood to care.

Where doesn’t it answer what you asked? I don’t want to post regularly on a forum, that’s why I have rarely posted after defeats as well. I’m not sure what answer you’re looking for. Yes I have only posted after defeats, but why does that matter? And no, despite what Dave Woodhall says, nowhere did I say that I hadn’t posted since Christmas. I knew full well my last post was after Stoke. I probably won’t post again for years, but that doesn’t mean I am Stuart445 or somebody on a wind up. I haven’t once said I’m being hounded out like others have said I am saying, or played the victim, but I do think there is a way of responding to people that is unacceptable. I simply posted to say I don’t think Smith is good enough and people don’t like it. At no point was I looking for an argument

Ok, you made your point. I disagree though, for where we are right now, Smith is plenty good enough and deserves an absolute minimum of a season, having brought us up.  I'd also stick with him if we get relegated too, then perhaps move him on if we came back up.  I think the new contract came too early, but I wonder if a clause was activated and they had no choice.  Given the chance, I'd havre waited to see where we are at the end of the season.  Some odd decisions, particularly with substitutions but some of that is down to a lack of quality on the bench.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tomd2103 on December 06, 2019, 11:09:21 PM
Quote from: Newby on December 06, 2019, 10:22:53 PM
Quote from: Ketzster on December 06, 2019, 04:55:58 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on December 06, 2019, 04:46:09 PM
It doesn't answer what I asked, but i'm in too good a mood to care.

Where doesn’t it answer what you asked? I don’t want to post regularly on a forum, that’s why I have rarely posted after defeats as well. I’m not sure what answer you’re looking for. Yes I have only posted after defeats, but why does that matter? And no, despite what Dave Woodhall says, nowhere did I say that I hadn’t posted since Christmas. I knew full well my last post was after Stoke. I probably won’t post again for years, but that doesn’t mean I am Stuart445 or somebody on a wind up. I haven’t once said I’m being hounded out like others have said I am saying, or played the victim, but I do think there is a way of responding to people that is unacceptable. I simply posted to say I don’t think Smith is good enough and people don’t like it. At no point was I looking for an argument

Ok, you made your point. I disagree though, for where we are right now, Smith is plenty good enough and deserves an absolute minimum of a season, having brought us up.  I'd also stick with him if we get relegated too, then perhaps move him on if we came back up.  I think the new contract came too early, but I wonder if a clause was activated and they had no choice.  Given the chance, I'd havre waited to see where we are at the end of the season.  Some odd decisions, particularly with substitutions but some of that is down to a lack of quality on the bench.

I'm not really sure how not being "good enough" can be quantified at this point.  I think most of us would accept staying up in the division and building the foundations of a competitive side that is entertaining to watch as our expectations for the season and he is delivering that so far. 

I do have some issues with the rigidity of his tactics and the the in-game management of the coaching staff, but I think he is doing a decent enough job for where we are at the moment.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on December 06, 2019, 11:23:50 PM
I'm Stuart445, and I have bee for a while.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Bad English on December 07, 2019, 07:43:13 AM
Jesus Christ. What crime has Ketzster committed? Are you all bored?

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on December 07, 2019, 08:56:09 AM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on December 06, 2019, 11:23:50 PM
I'm Stuart445, and I have bee for a while.

I edited this post and it's still a car crash. I envy me.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villadelph on December 08, 2019, 03:45:57 PM
It's like he's trying to get fired.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 08, 2019, 04:02:08 PM
Dreadful day for Dean. From selecting Elmo to not subbing Mings he got key things wrong. He really needs to work out some different systems to change things when it’s not working.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 08, 2019, 04:03:01 PM
I like Dean and he still has my full support but fuck me Dean, how about trying something different now and again.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 08, 2019, 04:04:36 PM
In fairness Rodgers been managing in this league since 2011 and also at Celtic in europe.

Everyone saw the difference so DS needs time to learn.

As we've seen many times at this level if you hestitate in decisions goals will be conceded and you'll lose points. I'm staggered by the whole Mings delay in going off and will be interested what is said after the game.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on December 08, 2019, 04:05:43 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on December 08, 2019, 04:04:36 PM
In fairness Rodgers been managing in this league since 2011 and also at Celtic in europe.
Yep, Dean is being asked to do a job he's never done before and it's showing.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on December 08, 2019, 04:12:25 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on December 08, 2019, 04:05:43 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on December 08, 2019, 04:04:36 PM
In fairness Rodgers been managing in this league since 2011 and also at Celtic in europe.
Yep, Dean is being asked to do a job he's never done before and it's showing.

This, and I think the owners are showing some patience.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 08, 2019, 04:12:48 PM
I said this in the match thread but one thing I don't get is these conference calls between Dean, John Terry and O'Kelly that tend to last five minutes on the bench.

It usually leads to a sub coming on but surely he should have the confidence to decide a play has to come off and just do it rather than run it through and seemingly get John Terry's permission?

Didn't impact today too much in the second half but we've lost quite a few points already this season because of dithering over making subs or changing shape.

Leicester today had Kelech Iheanacho playing well and scored. He was on a yellow and was involved in incident with Engels although it was accidental. Regardless he was taken straight off so to me that's a little example of a manager who's very sharp on game management and DS is quite a bit behind that compared to many of his peers at this level.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TonyD on December 08, 2019, 04:20:18 PM
You don’t need lots of PL experience to stop making obvious bad management choices.  I am quite shocked at his poor judgment. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 08, 2019, 04:24:51 PM
He's digging himself a massive grave. Stubornness, arrogance and naivety and simply not learning from what hasn't worked will find him fired. The new contract means nothing at all.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on December 08, 2019, 04:27:09 PM
I thought Dean was smarter and frankly better than this.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nii Lamptey on December 08, 2019, 04:34:59 PM
We've played all but 3 of the teams in this league now and we're hanging on just outside the bottom 3 on goal difference.

We've spent a small fortune in comparison to pretty much EVERY team in this league (yes, I know we needed it to pack the squad out), and yet we're ranked 20th in points gained from teams in the top half of the league, having taken just ONE POINT from them all season. And to top it all, that one point should have been three, as we basically gave it away against an abysmal Man Utd team.

I'm thinking back to last season, and Smith appears to be showing the same frailties now as he did then. The team still has a mistake in them and his game management is shockingly bad when it comes to starting lineups and substitutions. Starting to wonder if it was the grit and determination of Jack and his return that got us up, rather than inspired management from Smith and Co.

This season, we are making the same mistakes as we have since day 1. Smith is showing no signs of learning/improving as a Premier League manager... if anything, all he's showing is stubbornness and lack of tactical nous.

At this present moment, I'm done with him. We are seeing no glimmers of hope, and if they continue to persevere with him, we are only going one place. If we don't get 9 points out of the next 3 league games, I'd say thankyou very much, but on your bike son (*but even this could be a risk, because losing to any of those will drop us right in the shit!).
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 08, 2019, 04:45:00 PM
Absolutely brainless from Dean today. Terrible decisions from start to finish.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 08, 2019, 04:45:43 PM
Quote from: Nii Lamptey on December 08, 2019, 04:34:59 PM
We've played all but 3 of the teams in this league now and we're hanging on just outside the bottom 3 on goal difference.

We've spent a small fortune in comparison to pretty much EVERY team in this league (yes, I know we needed it to pack the squad out), and yet we're ranked 20th in points gained from teams in the top half of the league, having taken just ONE POINT from them all season. And to top it all, that one point should have been three, as we basically gave it away against an abysmal Man Utd team.

I'm thinking back to last season, and Smith appears to be showing the same frailties now as he did then. The team still has a mistake in them and his game management is shockingly bad when it comes to starting lineups and substitutions. Starting to wonder if it was the grit and determination of Jack and his return that got us up, rather than inspired management from Smith and Co.

This season, we are making the same mistakes as we have since day 1. Smith is showing no signs of learning/improving as a Premier League manager... if anything, all he's showing is stubbornness and lack of tactical nous.

At this present moment, I'm done with him. We are seeing no glimmers of hope, and if they continue to persevere with him, we are only going one place. If we don't get 9 points out of the next 3 league games, I'd say thankyou very much, but on your bike son (*but even this could be a risk, because losing to any of those will drop us right in the shit!).

We haven't really.

I was having this debate with my dad in the pub a few weeks ago when West Ham-Spurs game was on. He's one of those lapsed and negative Villa fans who simply can't believe team is now behind likes of Bournemouth and Burnley in the table. (like a fair few on this forum!)

He was saying to me how could Villa be behind West Ham when we'd spend so much in the summer and they were so poor. I quickly had to show him on my phone they signed Haller for 45m, Felipe Anderson for 38m so in reality their forward line cost as much as our summer spending.

Bournemouth signed Jordan Ibe and Dominic Solanke for a combined 34m and both have been flops. Let's not even start on Everton. Even Leicester signed Ichenacho for 25m and he's been largely a flop for them, think today was his first league start of the season.

100m over a summer is about par spending these days, just the way the game has gone. You could say we should be doing what Sheffield are doing who spent little but I could flip it by saying we are at least comfortably above Norwich. Considering they walked the league and beat us home and away last season that's not too bad.

We spent 100m pretty much on potential. There's some good players in there I'm convinced but equally every week Wesley is looking more out of his depth as a starter in the prem which isn't surprising as he was in the Polish league just two years ago.

Now in January we need to learn from this and try to sign a proven player or two even if it's just on one of those dreaded loan deals.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on December 08, 2019, 04:51:27 PM
Quote from: Nii Lamptey on December 08, 2019, 04:34:59 PM
We've played all but 3 of the teams in this league now and we're hanging on just outside the bottom 3 on goal difference.

We've spent a small fortune in comparison to pretty much EVERY team in this league (yes, I know we needed it to pack the squad out), and yet we're ranked 20th in points gained from teams in the top half of the league, having taken just ONE POINT from them all season. And to top it all, that one point should have been three, as we basically gave it away against an abysmal Man Utd team.

I'm thinking back to last season, and Smith appears to be showing the same frailties now as he did then. The team still has a mistake in them and his game management is shockingly bad when it comes to starting lineups and substitutions. Starting to wonder if it was the grit and determination of Jack and his return that got us up, rather than inspired management from Smith and Co.

This season, we are making the same mistakes as we have since day 1. Smith is showing no signs of learning/improving as a Premier League manager... if anything, all he's showing is stubbornness and lack of tactical nous.

At this present moment, I'm done with him. We are seeing no glimmers of hope, and if they continue to persevere with him, we are only going one place. If we don't get 9 points out of the next 3 league games, I'd say thankyou very much, but on your bike son (*but even this could be a risk, because losing to any of those will drop us right in the shit!).

Take a breath. Dean Smith has done a great job so far.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nii Lamptey on December 08, 2019, 04:52:33 PM
More importantly, SMITH needs to learn from this. He’s going to be the making of his own downfall if he doesn’t wake up soon.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 08, 2019, 04:52:47 PM
He's did a great job last season. There is no arguing that. He hasn't done a great job this season. Of the promoted sides only Chris Wilder has done a great job.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Flin5tone on December 08, 2019, 04:58:15 PM
We gave him a FOUR year deal? Why? Where was he going?

Same old stubborn management today. If he wasn't villa he'd be getting slaughtered
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on December 08, 2019, 05:02:05 PM
Quote from: Flin5tone on December 08, 2019, 04:58:15 PM
We gave him a FOUR year deal? Why? Where was he going?

Same old stubborn management today. If he wasn't villa he'd be getting slaughtered

He arrived not much more than a year ago when we were in the bottom half of the Championship. He got us promoted and now everyone is losing their shit because we got done by the side 14 pints clear of Spurs.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on December 08, 2019, 05:09:04 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on December 08, 2019, 05:02:05 PM
... everyone is losing their shit because we got done by the side 14 pints clear of Spurs.
No, some people are - rightly - losing their shit because we were abject, regardless of how good Leicester are.  We could easily have conceded 6 or 7.  We gave the ball away a lot, looked disorganised at the back, toothless up front, and a bit helpless on the bench.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Demitri_C on December 08, 2019, 05:09:32 PM
Some real cock ups by smith today. Elmo for starters at rb. Dreadful. Keeping faith with a terrible wesley who adds very little to us.

Then the decision to keep mings on jesus. Playing too open and should ahve made it tougher fir leicester yet we gave perirea and vardy far tok much space. Pathetic stuff today.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on December 08, 2019, 05:12:20 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on December 08, 2019, 05:09:04 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on December 08, 2019, 05:02:05 PM
... everyone is losing their shit because we got done by the side 14 pints clear of Spurs.
No, some people are - rightly - losing their shit because we were abject, regardless of how good Leicester are.  We could easily have conceded 6 or 7.  We gave the ball away a lot, looked disorganised at the back, toothless up front, and a bit helpless on the bench.

I know, I saw it. As I said in another thread, good teams will do that to you.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on December 08, 2019, 05:14:30 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on December 08, 2019, 05:12:20 PM
I know, I saw it. As I said in another thread, good teams will do that to you.
I think that's letting us off too lightly.  We made life difficult for ourselves.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: curiousorange on December 08, 2019, 05:19:15 PM
Despite the glory of last season's run-in, my big worry about Smith is the lack of a plan B. If you can't win on your own merits, at least give the opposition something else to worry about. Against Chelsea they put two blokes on Grealish and nullified him, doesn't take a genius to work out you should be trying something new. And three up front when quicker teams are cutting through the midfield? Just start with Kodjia and Wes, take the burden off and be harder to beat. When it's going well, Smith looks great. When it's not, you wonder if he's watching the same game we are.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on December 08, 2019, 05:19:32 PM
Was Dean at the match today? His post-match comments sound like he wasn't.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on December 08, 2019, 05:19:39 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on December 08, 2019, 05:14:30 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on December 08, 2019, 05:12:20 PM
I know, I saw it. As I said in another thread, good teams will do that to you.
I think that's letting us off too lightly.  We made life difficult for ourselves.

We did. Our passing was appalling and the players let their inferiority get to them. I'd have started Guilbert over Elmo, and I'd have brought Hourihane on when it became obvious that we were going to get fuck all from open play. That doesn't mean the manager ought to be sacked.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 08, 2019, 05:19:48 PM
He is not beyond criticism and his poor decisions are there for all to see.
He needs to get a grip on things with the games coming up,if not he and we are in trouble.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Flin5tone on December 08, 2019, 05:23:07 PM
I'm not calling for him to be sacked, he's a top bloke and villa, who wouldn't want him to succeed but the table will tell you he isn't doing a good job. We're 4th from bottom

I just dont think he deserved a 4 year contract and why? Where was he going? Who'd want him, apart from a championship club. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 08, 2019, 05:27:27 PM
"pressed at wrong times"

"couldn't fault the effort, kept going"

"AEM blocked for third goal"

Plenty to get into from those comments! That is nature of DS's management from the start at Walsall, he never criticises individuals in interviews and keeps things in house which is sensible.

Wasn't even asked about the Mings injury which sums up the WM coverage.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on December 08, 2019, 05:33:59 PM
There is no need to panic. Dean needs to take stock and reset the team back to to team that beat Newcastle easily and should have won at Old Trafford. He is limited on CF options as Kodjia is unreliable and Davis is injured and not that good in any case. So he has to go with what he's got. Must aim for 10 points from next 5 games otherwise we will be in it for the season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tricky59 on December 08, 2019, 05:40:30 PM
I hate to think what it would have been like on here for Ron Saunders when we struggled in the 75/76 season after promotion the previous season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TheMalandro on December 08, 2019, 06:09:41 PM
Quote from: tricky59 on December 08, 2019, 05:40:30 PM
I hate to think what it would have been like on here for Ron Saunders when we struggled in the 75/76 season after promotion the previous season.

Some of the comments are ludicrous.

We're a promoted team, with new signings in almost every position.
The individual mistakes are what's really killing us at the moment.

From what I've seen of the squad, it's a positive, happy group.

Stick with them.



Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on December 08, 2019, 06:18:26 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on December 08, 2019, 05:19:39 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on December 08, 2019, 05:14:30 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on December 08, 2019, 05:12:20 PM
I know, I saw it. As I said in another thread, good teams will do that to you.
I think that's letting us off too lightly.  We made life difficult for ourselves.

We did. Our passing was appalling and the players let their inferiority get to them. I'd have started Guilbert over Elmo, and I'd have brought Hourihane on when it became obvious that we were going to get fuck all from open play.

I'd imagine the thinking was to get Elmo putting in the crosses rather than wasting El Ghazi on the wing, allowing him to play more central.

We knew before the game Leicester have a very strong midfield, maybe the best in the PL, so to allow them the freedom of Villa Park today was a massive tactical mistake. Conor could have helped out and you're right, we desperately need him on dead balls. As I mentioned on the Match thread, I can't see the point of the referee awarding us corners. They're such a waste of time.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: garyshawsknee on December 08, 2019, 06:19:21 PM
Quote from: olaftab on December 08, 2019, 05:33:59 PM
There is no need to panic. Dean needs to take stock and reset the team back to to team that beat Newcastle easily and should have won at Old Trafford. He is limited on CF options as Kodjia is unreliable and Davis is injured and not that good in any case. So he has to go with what he's got. Must aim for 10 points from next 5 games otherwise we will be in it for the season.

I'm not pinning this one on Dean, probably more the DOF fault, but buying a relatively unknown forward when your other options aren't very reliable ( as you rightly say ) is really poor planning and short sighted.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villafirst on December 08, 2019, 06:21:05 PM
Smith says we were too open in our play - surely that was his instructions?  He needs to be a bit more solid at times with his formation and tactics especially against a bang in form Leicester.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: rougegorge on December 08, 2019, 06:22:34 PM
Quote from: TheMalandro on December 08, 2019, 06:09:41 PM
Quote from: tricky59 on December 08, 2019, 05:40:30 PM
I hate to think what it would have been like on here for Ron Saunders when we struggled in the 75/76 season after promotion the previous season.

Some of the comments are ludicrous.

We're a promoted team, with new signings in almost every position.
The individual mistakes are what's really killing us at the moment.

From what I've seen of the squad, it's a positive, happy group.

Stick with them.
In 75/76, we may not have won away but we only lost twice at home and were never in danger of going down and we didn't struggle to the extent that we are doing this season.

The players were bickering and remonstrating with each other after the 3rd went in today,  and showed little application in the second half.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on December 08, 2019, 06:24:18 PM
Can't see Smith being the man for us long term.  Too accident prone.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TheMalandro on December 08, 2019, 06:25:39 PM
Quote from: rougegorge on December 08, 2019, 06:22:34 PM
Quote from: TheMalandro on December 08, 2019, 06:09:41 PM
Quote from: tricky59 on December 08, 2019, 05:40:30 PM
I hate to think what it would have been like on here for Ron Saunders when we struggled in the 75/76 season after promotion the previous season.

Some of the comments are ludicrous.

We're a promoted team, with new signings in almost every position.
The individual mistakes are what's really killing us at the moment.

From what I've seen of the squad, it's a positive, happy group.

Stick with them.
In 75/76, we may not have won away but we only lost twice at home and were never in danger of going down and we didn't struggle to the extent that we are doing this season.

The players were bickering and remonstrating with each other after the 3rd went in today,  and showed little application in the second half.

Well beaten by a superior team.

I'm not bothered about that. It's the goals that we handed to them that frustrate me.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on December 08, 2019, 06:29:06 PM
We don't appear to have learned our lesson even under new owners - awarding a manager a contract extension prior to securing our place in the league seems premature -  hopefully I'm proven wrong in 6 months time .
Like many I was bounded over by the euphoria of promotion and just maybe we were ahead of " the plan" - likewise we have a team and manager unaccustomed to this league and are learning how difficult it is - whilst I applaud the support for the manager from the owners they may need to show a ruthless streak if we are in the bottom 3 after Christmas.
The Wesley signing is looking increasingly suspect as he fails to demonstrate any positive attributes whatsoever - who actually scouted/recommended him ?
I'd love to be optimistic about the upcoming games but Smith's`s reluctance/inability to change system or pattern of play is looking to be his Achilles heel
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Des Little on December 08, 2019, 06:30:58 PM
Playing an open game against that lot today was absolutely asking for what we got. In fact, we got off lightly. It could have been a lot more.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 08, 2019, 06:40:50 PM
Quote from: Des Little on December 08, 2019, 06:30:58 PM
Playing an open game against that lot today was absolutely asking for what we got. In fact, we got off lightly. It could have been a lot more.

Yes, they could easily have had 6 or 7 today.  This is getting really concerning now.  Jack is the only player at the moment in any semblance of form.  We have good players like Mings and McGinn hopelessly out of form, then just utter pilchards like Wesley stealing a living.  This isn't going to end well.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on December 08, 2019, 06:41:01 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 08, 2019, 04:45:00 PM
Absolutely brainless from Dean today. Terrible decisions from start to finish.

Agree, this one is squarely on Dean. Konsa over Engels, Mings playing injured, Elmo over Guilbert, another 90 minutes for Wesley, McGinn looking knackered and fed up.

Leicester are a good side on a great run and they may have had too much for us anyway, but Dean’s decisions before and during the game turned a difficult task into an impossible one. He let the players down today.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 08, 2019, 06:45:07 PM
There didn't seem any spirit at all in the team today.  Our players were having little niggles at each other all game, and berating each other after mis-placed passes etc.  That clearly fed through to the crowd, as there was hardly a single song sung in the entire game by the home fans.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on December 08, 2019, 06:49:54 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 08, 2019, 06:45:07 PM
There didn't seem any spirit at all in the team today.  Our players were having little niggles at each other all game, and berating each other after mis-placed passes etc.  That clearly fed through to the crowd, as there was hardly a single song sung in the entire game by the home fans.
Not even a " Have you won the European Cup"? ;)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AV82EC on December 08, 2019, 06:51:53 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 08, 2019, 06:45:07 PM
There didn't seem any spirit at all in the team today.  Our players were having little niggles at each other all game, and berating each other after mis-placed passes etc.  That clearly fed through to the crowd, as there was hardly a single song sung in the entire game by the home fans.

The early season optimism has gone and the cold reality of a long hard winter scrapping for points is upon us. I’ve never seen the crowd so flat.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 08, 2019, 07:06:46 PM
Quote from: AV82EC on December 08, 2019, 06:51:53 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 08, 2019, 06:45:07 PM
There didn't seem any spirit at all in the team today.  Our players were having little niggles at each other all game, and berating each other after mis-placed passes etc.  That clearly fed through to the crowd, as there was hardly a single song sung in the entire game by the home fans.

The early season optimism has gone and the cold reality of a long hard winter scrapping for points is upon us. I’ve never seen the crowd so flat.

At least half the crowd had left by the time the final whistle went.  The Witton was virtually empty, apart from the away fans.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Bad English on December 08, 2019, 07:09:40 PM
I heard a loud chant of 'Your support is fucking shit!' on the telly and the accents were distinctly duckie. What a contrast to the balmy nights of Everton and er...
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on December 08, 2019, 08:31:23 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 08, 2019, 07:06:46 PM
Quote from: AV82EC on December 08, 2019, 06:51:53 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 08, 2019, 06:45:07 PM
There didn't seem any spirit at all in the team today.  Our players were having little niggles at each other all game, and berating each other after mis-placed passes etc.  That clearly fed through to the crowd, as there was hardly a single song sung in the entire game by the home fans.

The early season optimism has gone and the cold reality of a long hard winter scrapping for points is upon us. I’ve never seen the crowd so flat.

At least half the crowd had left by the time the final whistle went.  The Witton was virtually empty, apart from the away fans.

I left with 10 minutes to go today. I don't think I have ever left that long before the end of the game.

It was just horrible viewing - the ground was moribund, they were infinitely better than us - if they'd scored 7 it wouldn't have been an unfair reflection of the game - and our players just looked like they'd given in.

SJM was getting arsey, kicking the ball away that time when something went against him, several of them looked entirely unbothered (Targett, Luiz, Wesley - who also looked absolutely shit), it was just depressing viewing.

I understand all the "OMG! This time last year we were getting battered by Studley Paper Boys XI!!11!!" posts, but really, look at the table, it does not lie.

Good performances here, there are worth nothing if you do not come away with points, and we do not do that anywhere near enough.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Jon Crofts on December 08, 2019, 08:38:19 PM
We've spent £150 million to be 17th on goal difference.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on December 08, 2019, 08:38:55 PM
Same here. Domino effect after the last goal and I thought fuck it, got to drive back to Bristol, and I had my 9 yo who looked like I’d just made her sit through a programme about Mesopotamian ceramics on bbc4. Bollocks to that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 08, 2019, 08:39:58 PM
So if the table doesn't lie does that mean we're definitely not going to be relegated?  :P
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 08, 2019, 08:44:03 PM
Quote from: Jon Crofts on December 08, 2019, 08:38:19 PM
We've spent £150 million to be 17th on goal difference.

Have you seen what Everton have spent to be two points above us?

Bournemouth have also spent a huge amount in last few seasons considering they only get 10k.

West Ham have a 100m forward line that dosen't score many goals atm.

In isolation we have spent lots but most of it has been on potential rather than established internationals which is ultimately what a newly promoted team will do unless you have special connections like Wolves do.

People forgetting that established prem clubs also spend similar amounts so to me it dosen't hold much argument. Much more debatable in the MON days when we were one of the highest spending net teams over 3 year period and still people didn't think that was enough.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on December 08, 2019, 08:46:58 PM
Hold steady

That was the best side we’ve faced this season and we were very much second best. Our season won’t be defined by results against the best in the league.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on December 08, 2019, 08:49:20 PM
Some really ridiculous comments in here. Never left early, subdued crowd, team spirit etc etc. Do people really think this is worse than 15/16 and 3 or 4 seasons leading up to that? Get a grip please.
We have lost two games of late  big deal. We had 4 points from 2 games before that. It's amazing how quickly people turn.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tricky59 on December 08, 2019, 08:51:29 PM
Quote from: PeterWithe on December 08, 2019, 08:46:58 PM
Hold steady

That was the best side we’ve faced this season and we were very much second best. Our season won’t be defined by results against the best in the league.

Hold steady, PW?
Wrong forum for that it seems.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 08, 2019, 09:08:26 PM
Dean needs to develop more variation in his tactics. He has one style and if it doesn’t worked we’re fucked. He made some dreadful decisions today.

The midfield isn’t balanced right either, they neither give us defensive strength nor creative go forward.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on December 08, 2019, 09:10:28 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on December 08, 2019, 09:08:26 PM
Dean needs to develop more variation in his tactics. He has one style and if it doesn’t worked we’re fucked. He made some dreadful decisions today.

I agree with this, when were on it we look good, when were not we look flat as fuck but just stick with what we know.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 08, 2019, 09:12:44 PM
Smith mentioned in his post-match burbling that Leicester switched to a diamond behind a front two today.  Such tactical flexibility would seem totally alien to him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AV82EC on December 08, 2019, 09:29:11 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 08, 2019, 09:12:44 PM
Smith mentioned in his post-match burbling that Leicester switched to a diamond behind a front two today.  Such tactical flexibility would seem totally alien to him.

I’m not sure they play that normally and it showed for the first 20-30 minutes but once our initial efforts faded they absolutely dominated us with it. I wonder if Dean needs to try it, more support for Wes with an additional striker and he can play Jack behind the front 2 a la Madison today who was very good.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 08, 2019, 09:42:00 PM
Fitness and strength is another thing Smith needs to work on. We look less fit and weaker than most teams.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on December 08, 2019, 09:43:35 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on December 08, 2019, 09:42:00 PM
Fitness and strength is another thing Smith needs to work on. We look less fit and weaker than most teams.

I’ve been saying that all season down the match, should be an easy fix as well
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OzVilla on December 08, 2019, 09:48:42 PM
Expected the result but a worrying performance. Smith again making basic errors. Silly to give him that contract as Villa teams inevitably seem to have poor runs after signing them. 

He won’t learn though which is a real concern, too inflexible and now major players in our team, SJM, Wes, Mings looking spent. Massive 6 weeks ahead.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on December 09, 2019, 01:41:41 PM
Quote from: PeterWithe on December 08, 2019, 09:43:35 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on December 08, 2019, 09:42:00 PM
Fitness and strength is another thing Smith needs to work on. We look less fit and weaker than most teams.

I’ve been saying that all season down the match, should be an easy fix as well

Isn't there a tracking site that counts the distance run by players? I'd vote to see our stats. Can't decide if the players are unfit or they're knackered from chasing the ball most of the game.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 09, 2019, 02:35:39 PM
The next two games are absolutely massive for our season.

We have Sheffield United away on Saturday, while Southampton have West Ham at home.  We then play Southampton ourselves.  Two defeats for us and we could be a few points from safety, which would be an absolute disaster.  I don't think it will happen, but it's not beyond the realms of possibility, and if it does I think Smith could well be for the chop.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on December 09, 2019, 02:45:23 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 09, 2019, 02:35:39 PM
The next two games are absolutely massive for our season.

We have Sheffield United away on Saturday, while Southampton have West Ham at home.  We then play Southampton ourselves.  Two defeats for us and we could be a few points from safety, which would be an absolute disaster.  I don't think it will happen, but it's not beyond the realms of possibility, and if it does I think Smith could well be for the chop.

I doubt very much they would sack him so soon after giving him a 4 year contract.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy65 on December 09, 2019, 02:58:51 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 09, 2019, 02:35:39 PM
The next two games are absolutely massive for our season.

We have Sheffield United away on Saturday, while Southampton have West Ham at home.  We then play Southampton ourselves.  Two defeats for us and we could be a few points from safety, which would be an absolute disaster.  I don't think it will happen, but it's not beyond the realms of possibility, and if it does I think Smith could well be for the chop.

You could be right about Smith if results go against us for the rest of this month.  Leicester success is down to some very astute signings but also changing the manager when it isn’t working
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on December 09, 2019, 03:04:55 PM
Quote from: Clampy on December 09, 2019, 02:45:23 PM
I doubt very much they would sack him so soon after giving him a 4 year contract.
Agreed.  It just seems to go against the club's approach these days.  I expect he'll still be here even if we go down.  Not that I think that's necessarily the best idea.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on December 09, 2019, 03:05:16 PM
Quote from: Rudy65 on December 09, 2019, 02:58:51 PM
Leicester success is down to some very astute signings but also changing the manager when it isn’t working

Or taking an upgrade when the opportunity arises. Same at Spurs. Obviously I'm not calling for us to replace Dean now but when that day does come I'd prefer we do it from a position of strength, preferably in the summer rather than bringing in a firefighter midseason.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 09, 2019, 03:17:01 PM
Leicester's last 3 appointments have been firefighting during the season to some degree.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on December 09, 2019, 03:41:24 PM
You're right, I was thinking more the transition from Pearson to Ranieri.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 09, 2019, 04:05:07 PM
Quote from: Clampy on December 09, 2019, 02:45:23 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 09, 2019, 02:35:39 PM
The next two games are absolutely massive for our season.

We have Sheffield United away on Saturday, while Southampton have West Ham at home.  We then play Southampton ourselves.  Two defeats for us and we could be a few points from safety, which would be an absolute disaster.  I don't think it will happen, but it's not beyond the realms of possibility, and if it does I think Smith could well be for the chop.

I doubt very much they would sack him so soon after giving him a 4 year contract.

A month or so is a long time in football.  It was a mistake giving him the new contract when they did, and if we do get cut adrift, that will be very clear to them.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 09, 2019, 04:10:13 PM
As we don't what his original contract was we have no idea when it was due to run out, we have no idea what clauses are in the new one so saying it was a mistake is just a guess as the only people that know those things are the club, DS etc. With the run of fixtures we have comig up if results and perfomrnaces are poor I think his job will be under threat and the new contract won't change that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TheMalandro on December 09, 2019, 04:14:27 PM
I'd be amazed if he's sacked, even if we are rock bottom.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 09, 2019, 04:50:13 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on December 09, 2019, 04:10:13 PM
As we don't what his original contract was we have no idea when it was due to run out, we have no idea what clauses are in the new one so saying it was a mistake is just a guess as the only people that know those things are the club, DS etc. With the run of fixtures we have comig up if results and perfomrnaces are poor I think his job will be under threat and the new contract won't change that.

We don't know what it was, but I'd be a bit surprised if it was due to run out so quickly, and certainly not in the middle of November.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 09, 2019, 05:00:06 PM
It may well have been due to run out in the summer and there was an agreement in place he'd get a new one if we went up, both parties may have wanted clauses added, as you say we don't know so it's hard to say it was a mistake, same as it's hard to say it was the right decision.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on December 09, 2019, 05:15:39 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 09, 2019, 04:50:13 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on December 09, 2019, 04:10:13 PM
As we don't what his original contract was we have no idea when it was due to run out, we have no idea what clauses are in the new one so saying it was a mistake is just a guess as the only people that know those things are the club, DS etc. With the run of fixtures we have comig up if results and perfomrnaces are poor I think his job will be under threat and the new contract won't change that.

We don't know what it was, but I'd be a bit surprised if it was due to run out so quickly, and certainly not in the middle of November.

There could've been a clause to renegotiate after a year based milestones and that took a couple of weeks, seems to line up pretty well.

After that the 4 years is only a problem if there isn't a clause limiting the pay out should he be sacked, I'd be surprised if that wasn't there so the length of the contract doesn't really change things very much.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on December 09, 2019, 05:48:48 PM
Quote from: paul_e on December 09, 2019, 05:15:39 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 09, 2019, 04:50:13 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on December 09, 2019, 04:10:13 PM
As we don't what his original contract was we have no idea when it was due to run out, we have no idea what clauses are in the new one so saying it was a mistake is just a guess as the only people that know those things are the club, DS etc. With the run of fixtures we have comig up if results and perfomrnaces are poor I think his job will be under threat and the new contract won't change that.

We don't know what it was, but I'd be a bit surprised if it was due to run out so quickly, and certainly not in the middle of November.

There could've been a clause to renegotiate after a year based milestones and that took a couple of weeks, seems to line up pretty well.

After that the 4 years is only a problem if there isn't a clause limiting the pay out should he be sacked, I'd be surprised if that wasn't there so the length of the contract doesn't really change things very much.
e

What's the point of the contract then ?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on December 09, 2019, 05:55:02 PM
If he goes he will get the standard 12 month payout.  They probably just give him four years in case any other club wanted him.  Juve for example.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on December 09, 2019, 06:03:55 PM
Quote from: john e on December 09, 2019, 05:48:48 PM
Quote from: paul_e on December 09, 2019, 05:15:39 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 09, 2019, 04:50:13 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on December 09, 2019, 04:10:13 PM
As we don't what his original contract was we have no idea when it was due to run out, we have no idea what clauses are in the new one so saying it was a mistake is just a guess as the only people that know those things are the club, DS etc. With the run of fixtures we have comig up if results and perfomrnaces are poor I think his job will be under threat and the new contract won't change that.

We don't know what it was, but I'd be a bit surprised if it was due to run out so quickly, and certainly not in the middle of November.

There could've been a clause to renegotiate after a year based milestones and that took a couple of weeks, seems to line up pretty well.

After that the 4 years is only a problem if there isn't a clause limiting the pay out should he be sacked, I'd be surprised if that wasn't there so the length of the contract doesn't really change things very much.
e

What's the point of the contract then ?

because unless a clause gets triggered it runs. The clause would be something like 'in the bottom 3' or 'x points from safety' or something similar, which gives the club some control. It gets balanced by clauses the other way that give Smith renegotiation rights. It's really not unusual.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on December 09, 2019, 06:16:11 PM
Quote from: paul_e on December 09, 2019, 06:03:55 PM
Quote from: john e on December 09, 2019, 05:48:48 PM
Quote from: paul_e on December 09, 2019, 05:15:39 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 09, 2019, 04:50:13 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on December 09, 2019, 04:10:13 PM
As we don't what his original contract was we have no idea when it was due to run out, we have no idea what clauses are in the new one so saying it was a mistake is just a guess as the only people that know those things are the club, DS etc. With the run of fixtures we have comig up if results and perfomrnaces are poor I think his job will be under threat and the new contract won't change that.

We don't know what it was, but I'd be a bit surprised if it was due to run out so quickly, and certainly not in the middle of November.

There could've been a clause to renegotiate after a year based milestones and that took a couple of weeks, seems to line up pretty well.

After that the 4 years is only a problem if there isn't a clause limiting the pay out should he be sacked, I'd be surprised if that wasn't there so the length of the contract doesn't really change things very much.
e

What's the point of the contract then ?

because unless a clause gets triggered it runs. The clause would be something like 'in the bottom 3' or 'x points from safety' or something similar, which gives the club some control. It gets balanced by clauses the other way that give Smith renegotiation rights. It's really not unusual.

in fairness I’m not clever on employment contracts so it could well be ‘ not unusual ‘
but it’s a new one on me

that someone signs a long term contract that should he be dismissed not be honoured
I can see clauses which would include relegation playing a part in a contract but I don’t see the point of Smith signing a contract which means nothing if the club sack him at any point
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: danno on December 09, 2019, 06:57:24 PM
Perhaps it was a simple pay rise.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: JUAN PABLO on December 09, 2019, 07:15:54 PM
As my Leicester mate said we look shagged after 15 minutes which is worrying.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 09, 2019, 07:21:49 PM
Quote from: JUAN PABLO on December 09, 2019, 07:15:54 PM
As my Leicester mate said we look shagged after 15 minutes which is worrying.

Yes we don’t look fit or sufficiently strong.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on December 09, 2019, 08:02:50 PM
It feels like we have been saying the fitness thing for years. Its clearly an issue.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT on December 09, 2019, 08:04:06 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on December 09, 2019, 07:21:49 PM
Quote from: JUAN PABLO on December 09, 2019, 07:15:54 PM
As my Leicester mate said we look shagged after 15 minutes which is worrying.

Yes we don’t look fit or sufficiently strong.

Seems a familiar theme over the last ten years!

Going into a hectic Xmas period, it doesn't look good. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on December 09, 2019, 08:07:01 PM
Im pretty sure that it was Terry that commented on how he knew we were unfit and would tire after an hour when we played Chelsea in the Cup about 10 years ago.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 09, 2019, 08:10:30 PM
The fitness thing allways gets raised after a run of poor results.
Check out the 2 boat race crews after the race.
The victors look like they could row it again, the losers have hands down breathing heavily looking totally shagged out.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: garyshawsknee on December 09, 2019, 08:26:23 PM
This always gets brought up when we have a run of poor results. We've had a couple of games where we have been chasing the game and shadows, so we would look knackered. At the same time, I think SJM needs a weekend off.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on December 09, 2019, 11:00:54 PM
Without a couple of new players in, I am beginning to wonder if Dean has taken us as far as his limit.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 09, 2019, 11:09:44 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on December 09, 2019, 08:07:01 PM
Im pretty sure that it was Terry that commented on how he knew we were unfit and would tire after an hour when we played Chelsea in the Cup about 10 years ago.

We had a much older core set of players back then and it was also well known MON would give them most of the week off if we had a good win the previous weekend. Double sessions was not part of our training ground vocabularly back then it's fair to say.

Certainly we weren't as technically strong as likes of Spurs so we had to sit deep and grind out more wins than those teams. Milner was really huge in that team, when he moved to central midfield he was Kante lite with all the ground he covered. No surprise it feel apart so quickly after he left.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on December 10, 2019, 04:26:06 AM
I’ve just watched his interview for the first time.  Jesus that’s the first time I can honestly say I think he’s talking horseshit if he really believes what he is saying.  Ghazi’s and Grealish’s shot apart we were totally outplayed from start to finish.

The only thing he’s right about is the defence.  But he makes no mention of the biggest problem on the pitch.  The complete Ally Dia impersonator up front.  I’m starting to get concerned.  Managers that start to talk like this are usually running out of ideas. I hope I’m wrong.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OzVilla on December 10, 2019, 05:41:06 AM
Yep, normally Smith gets it pretty much spot on and doesn't pull his punches.  Here he's either trying to install some confidence in the team after 3 poor performances in the last 4 games or he's actually starting to lose the plot himself.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 10, 2019, 03:35:36 PM
There was that spell last season without Jack. We were playing terribly and he very worryingly started to talk bollocks. I really hope that doesn’t happen again. Just be honest. If we played shit say it. It’s one of things I enjoy about Wilder.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on December 11, 2019, 08:13:45 AM
The other view of course is that we were made to look shit rather than being shit. That can happen to any team when they face a top side on form.

Keep the faith folks.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nelly on December 11, 2019, 09:48:37 AM
Quote from: Drummond on December 11, 2019, 08:13:45 AM
The other view of course is that we were made to look shit rather than being shit. That can happen to any team when they face a top side on form.

Keep the faith folks.

Amen to this. With Villa being as competitive as we have been, I wonder if the bar has been set too high, too quickly? When we came up the general feeling seemed to be that Smith should have this season and some even suggested should we go down, he should remain manager. Now, after playing the best teams in the league. he may have taken us as far as he can?

We've got a long way to go and are still a work in progress. Lets get behind the club and manager.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 11, 2019, 09:49:35 AM
I've never thought that he should be kept on if he takes us down.  That would be unacceptable.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 11, 2019, 09:57:03 AM
Quote from: Risso on December 11, 2019, 09:49:35 AM
I've never thought that he should be kept on if he takes us down.  That would be unacceptable.
It has worked for some teams particularly when they have not spent after promotion and half expecting to yo yo.
You could easily see Norwich for example sticking.
Not sure it would be the right thing for us though, I do not think relegation is in the plan.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Hookeysmith on December 11, 2019, 01:36:43 PM
I know we only have (like everyone else) a squad of players that cannot change until Jan but I would like to see some variation to the set up - either before or during the games depending on how it is going.
There are slight changes at present but nothing dynamic or innovative.

I genuinely think we have the right personnel to play an exciting 352 and especially as Dean is more of an attack minded coach I really think it could work

                               Heaton

            Konza         Engels          Mings

Guilbert                                                   Targett

          Nakamba     McGinn       Hourihane

                             Jack

                   Wes / Kodj / Davis / Another


If we need to close a game out then a simple change back to 442 or 433 (as we have like for like players) can be made quite easily
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Footy-Vill on December 11, 2019, 03:02:24 PM

Quote from: Hookeysmith on December 11, 2019, 01:36:43 PM
I know we only have (like everyone else) a squad of players that cannot change until Jan but I would like to see some variation to the set up - either before or during the games depending on how it is going.
There are slight changes at present but nothing dynamic or innovative.

I genuinely think we have the right personnel to play an exciting 352 and especially as Dean is more of an attack minded coach I really think it could work

                               Heaton

            Konza         Engels          Mings

Guilbert                                                   Targett

          Nakamba     McGinn       Hourihane

                             Jack

                   Wes / Kodj / Davis / Another


If we need to close a game out then a simple change back to 442 or 433 (as we have like for like players) can be made quite easily



Dean's 3 at back would have to be some type of 3-4-3.
I just don't see him adhering to any policy where 3-5-2 could essentially bring in to play 5 at the back scenarios. Its not how he operates.

I had and take consideration with you on 3-5-2 now with Mings out .
However the set up of squad despite having 2 capable wing backs would mean little use for some wide forwards.

I think really Deanos attacking 4-3-3 which does allow for risks both forward and back is where he's at.

What has been concerning of late is the goal opportunities open play for midfielders . The controlling of the ball and passing by them and getting beyond and into the penalty area by the 2 advanced midfielders . The goal threat and support isn't evident enough to both Wesley and as midfielders taking risks and seeking out opportunities

Some of that has come with the caution but it's far more progressive than the pragmatic approach under Bruce.
Maybe their is a need for a midfielder or 2 in the window who is able to drive it as well as get box to box.

3-5-2 though I like to see that however it would be som admission by Smith and a big change at big stage is season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on December 12, 2019, 11:32:08 AM
Quote from: Hookeysmith on December 11, 2019, 01:36:43 PM
I know we only have (like everyone else) a squad of players that cannot change until Jan but I would like to see some variation to the set up - either before or during the games depending on how it is going.
There are slight changes at present but nothing dynamic or innovative.

I genuinely think we have the right personnel to play an exciting 352 and especially as Dean is more of an attack minded coach I really think it could work

                               Heaton

            Konza         Engels          Mings

Guilbert                                                   Targett

          Nakamba     McGinn       Hourihane

                             Jack

                   Wes / Kodj / Davis / Another


If we need to close a game out then a simple change back to 442 or 433 (as we have like for like players) can be made quite easily

Sheff Utd might be the game to try this with Mings out, plus it's how they set up. Midfield is still a real problem area for us though no matter what combination we try. You really need mobile midfield players in that formation to cover the wing backs. We don't have that. Not sure which of Luiz or Hourihane put in a better shift without the ball...

In terms of our own goal threat, we could also try McGinn and Grealish as part of a narrow three to keep their wing backs honest. Their centre backs certainly won't want those two running at them. McGinn did some great work last season on the inside right channel so might be worth trying again. If Chester is any way fit, Id give him the nod over Konsa to be honest, familiar with the formation and Konsa has been hopeless last three games.

---------------Heaton
Konsa/Chester, Engels, Hause
Guilbert, Luiz/Houri, Nakamba, Targett
-----McGinn, AEG, Grealish
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: in exile on December 12, 2019, 11:57:57 AM
Quote from: brontebilly on December 12, 2019, 11:32:08 AM

---------------Heaton
Konsa/Chester, Engels, Hause
Guilbert, Luiz/Houri, Nakamba, Targett
-----McGinn, AEG, Grealish
Wouldn't be too far off for me.
Struggling a bit with the back three, would probably keep Konsa over Chester and I would pick Connor over Douglas
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: manic-road on December 12, 2019, 12:15:02 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 11, 2019, 09:49:35 AM
I've never thought that he should be kept on if he takes us down.  That would be unacceptable.

Worked well at Burnley, going onto gain European footy.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on December 12, 2019, 02:49:31 PM
Going down should be seen as a failure. If we keep Dean or not, in that circumstance is up to the owners. If it was me, I think I would keep him. However I am a little worried if Dean can cut it as a manager at this level.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on December 12, 2019, 06:55:50 PM
I think the owners will review the situation if we are in the bottom three on January 1st, given we'll have played all the bottom teams by that point.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on December 12, 2019, 08:31:43 PM
SGT nearly took us down after he got us back up, that first season was a right struggle but we persevered and the on nearly went and won the league.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: garyshawsknee on December 12, 2019, 08:44:23 PM
Quote from: Ian J on December 12, 2019, 08:31:43 PM
SGT nearly took us down after he got us back up, that first season was a right struggle but we persevered and the on nearly went and won the league.

After Sunday's game I thought thank God there was no internet in 1989, SGT would have been slaughtered.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Louzie0 on December 12, 2019, 09:02:13 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 09, 2019, 08:10:30 PM
The fitness thing allways gets raised after a run of poor results.
Check out the 2 boat race crews after the race.
The victors look like they could row it again, the losers have hands down breathing heavily looking totally shagged out.

That’s a really good point!
They do.
I agree, you can’t underestimate the power of positive thinking, adrenaline and serotonin (if that’s the natural high I mean) when a final assault on the oppo’s defence has paid off.
If it hasn’t, you’re right, everything negative kicks in.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on December 13, 2019, 10:16:58 AM
Quote from: garyshawsknee on December 12, 2019, 08:44:23 PM
Quote from: Ian J on December 12, 2019, 08:31:43 PM
SGT nearly took us down after he got us back up, that first season was a right struggle but we persevered and the on nearly went and won the league.

After Sunday's game I thought thank God there was no internet in 1989, SGT would have been slaughtered.

Could that argument / point of view, have been used to keep Bruce or Lambert?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nelly on December 13, 2019, 03:27:11 PM
Lambert had a long, long time to get things right though. He even had time to re-invent us into a total football machine based on his travels in Germany.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on December 13, 2019, 07:29:25 PM
Quote from: Nelly on December 13, 2019, 03:27:11 PM
Lambert had a long, long time to get things right though. He even had time to re-invent us into a total football machine based on his travels in Germany.

Yes he did ha ha
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on December 13, 2019, 09:24:35 PM
Quote from: Three Spires Villa on December 13, 2019, 10:16:58 AM
Quote from: garyshawsknee on December 12, 2019, 08:44:23 PM
Quote from: Ian J on December 12, 2019, 08:31:43 PM
SGT nearly took us down after he got us back up, that first season was a right struggle but we persevered and the on nearly went and won the league.

After Sunday's game I thought thank God there was no internet in 1989, SGT would have been slaughtered.

Could that argument / point of view, have been used to keep Bruce or Lambert?
No, not really. Lambert had enough to time and Bruce had pocket full of cash to get us up. He turned us around and fair play, but his time had come. In all honesty I think we came up ahead of schedule or maybe unexpectedly. We’re not quite ready and the money we spent is not a lot in the real terms of this league.

Anyway I still believe in a Smith and can’t believe after what he has done he’s being seriously questioned already. Ok it’s not been perfect but at times it’s been better than I hoped. We haven’t quite had the rub of the green and we haven’t had the nous or experience to come away with the 3 points we have often deserved. We’re still learning and rebuilding and if history is anything to go on so was SGT.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 13, 2019, 10:20:14 PM
I was watching Snodgrass and thinking how valuable someone with his nous might have been to this team.
We really don’t have anyone to help the guys on the pitch see out a game.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on December 13, 2019, 10:24:12 PM
Yes I agree, he’d be brilliant for us this season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on December 13, 2019, 10:36:38 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 13, 2019, 10:20:14 PM
I was watching Snodgrass and thinking how valuable someone with his nous might have been to this team.
We really don’t have anyone to help the guys on the pitch see out a game.

That's why I wouldn't be as averse as some to signing one or two older heads. Just one or two, and not on crazy length contracts.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on December 13, 2019, 10:38:38 PM
There’s old heads like Snoddy and Milner and then there’s your Lescotts and co.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on December 13, 2019, 11:00:04 PM
Well, quite. Obviously we would need to get it right, but the same goes for younger targets. We have signed some incredibly average players in the last decade.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 14, 2019, 12:18:21 AM
Some older players bring more than their physical contribution to the team. Chris Sutton was not around for very long but he had a presence about him which helped the team.
Pirese waste of space.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on December 14, 2019, 06:41:45 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 14, 2019, 12:18:21 AM
Some older players bring more than their physical contribution to the team. Chris Sutton was not around for very long but he had a presence about him which helped the team.
Pirese waste of space.

Pires was not a waste of space. He was brought in when we were very thin on the ground due to an horrendous injury list. It was at the wrong end of his career obviously but he helped us out when it was needed.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 14, 2019, 10:50:20 AM
Quote from: Clampy on December 14, 2019, 06:41:45 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 14, 2019, 12:18:21 AM
Some older players bring more than their physical contribution to the team. Chris Sutton was not around for very long but he had a presence about him which helped the team.
Pirese waste of space.

Pires was not a waste of space. He was brought in when we were very thin on the ground due to an horrendous injury list. It was at the wrong end of his career obviously but he helped us out when it was needed.
I don’t remember him contributing much to any game though.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on December 14, 2019, 11:24:22 AM
Quote from: Vill I An on December 14, 2019, 09:59:34 AM
Quote from: Ian J on December 13, 2019, 10:38:38 PM
There’s old heads like Snoddy and Milner and then there’s your Lescotts and co.

Villa let go a lot of big experience in summer and only replaced
Hutton
Jedinak
Whelan

-with Heaton experience wise

I think of the 3 Whelan could have been in and around the squad .
Even Hutton.
They could have done what Jedinak did last season in championship. Just a solid experienced head who would come in for pitch time and be an asset in training and no problem to the squad.

Micah Richards type experience and influence isn't necessary but 2 of those 3 could have hung around.
That's posibly your most sensible post to date.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on December 14, 2019, 11:24:45 AM
I remember him lobbing our keeper.  Oh that was against us.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Pete3206 on December 14, 2019, 11:45:07 AM
Quote from: Clampy on December 14, 2019, 06:41:45 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 14, 2019, 12:18:21 AM
Some older players bring more than their physical contribution to the team. Chris Sutton was not around for very long but he had a presence about him which helped the team.
Pirese waste of space.

Pires was not a waste of space. He was brought in when we were very thin on the ground due to an horrendous injury list. It was at the wrong end of his career obviously but he helped us out when it was needed.

Much as I admired Pires as a player, his legs had gone when he played for us.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on December 14, 2019, 11:59:03 AM
I never wanted to sign Terry but, and I may have just misremembered, but I don't recall us surrendering too many leads the season he played for us.

Imagine how many points we would have if we were better at defending leads. We could have beaten some of the best teams in the World and be looking at possible European football next season, instead of constantly worrying how pish like Norwich are getting on.

A couple of calm heads wouldn't hurt. Maybe up front, someone with a bit of nous who can run down the clock while still offering a goalscoring threat.

Cavani!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on December 14, 2019, 12:31:31 PM
Hi never wanted Terry either, especially with our track record in the last 10 years with players at the end of their careers. He proved me completely wrong. His commitment, attitude and character was one of the biggest surprises I’ve had in football. He was the complete opposite in all that I thought he would be.

We definitely could do with a player or two I like him and Snoddy. Just to help the young team along. Attitude has to be priority as long as their legs actually still do work.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 14, 2019, 12:36:42 PM
That’s the point, they have still got to be able to function physically but its that extra bit of nous experience brings which helps players around them.
Pires legs had gone so he couldn’t help.
Yes even Whelan for  10 20 minutes would not be a disaster.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 14, 2019, 02:22:56 PM
Pires is a differrent case though, the window had shut and we had awful injuries and he was probably the best option of the free agents. If it had been during a transfer window I very much doubt we'd have signed him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on December 14, 2019, 04:23:09 PM
What a silly decision a new contract was.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aev on December 14, 2019, 04:25:27 PM
Quote from: mr underhill on December 14, 2019, 04:23:09 PM
What a silly decision a new contract was.

Yep crazy really.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Demitri_C on December 14, 2019, 04:32:32 PM
God we are in trouble. Looks out of his depth at pl level
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 14, 2019, 04:32:35 PM
This may be proved wrong at the end of the game, and I hope it is, but come up with some sort of way to vary tactics Dean. Your inability to change a game and unwillingness to change system when required is becoming a real problem.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: usav on December 14, 2019, 04:33:20 PM
It was, but thankfully the new owners won’t care about the money if they have to pay him off.

He needs to earn that new contract, because right now, it’s simply not good enough.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 14, 2019, 04:33:36 PM
Poor at dealing with 3-5-2s given how we've played today and at Wolves.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Jon Crofts on December 14, 2019, 04:42:40 PM
Hate to say it but looking way out of his depth.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 14, 2019, 04:43:40 PM
Needs to start showing more than he has been. Today is piss poor.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aev on December 14, 2019, 04:44:27 PM
Saturday really is must win, and Boxing Day too.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: itbrvilla on December 14, 2019, 04:45:31 PM
Quote from: Jon Crofts on December 14, 2019, 04:42:40 PM
Hate to say it but looking way out of his depth.
Yep, appears to be clueless and lacking any ideas.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on December 14, 2019, 04:45:41 PM
Quote from: mr underhill on December 14, 2019, 04:23:09 PM
What a silly decision a new contract was.

Insane and completely unnecessary
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 14, 2019, 04:46:23 PM
Huge pressure on next two games now, not winning either isn't an option. 4 points at worst.

To not even make 20 points by New Year will leave the second half of the season an uphill struggle given the home fixtures we have left.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 14, 2019, 04:47:11 PM
Should have been 3
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 14, 2019, 04:52:09 PM
Completely inept.  We were this bad last year when we lost to Wigan, but then we had Jack coming back.  Hard to see where any improvement can come from this time, unless we buy big in January.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 14, 2019, 04:52:29 PM
How many games have we either lost or drawn due to second half failings? It’s a clear indication the manager cannot respond to tactical changes from the opposition. It’s not good enough Dean, sort it out and fast.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: curiousorange on December 14, 2019, 04:54:57 PM
So, we have to ask the question: who's waiting in the wings?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 14, 2019, 04:57:11 PM
Quote from: curiousorange on December 14, 2019, 04:54:57 PM
So, we have to ask the question: who's waiting in the wings?

(https://socceronsunday.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/big-sam-villa.jpg)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on December 14, 2019, 04:58:10 PM
I love him but he’s losing us games regularly.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Fred Crump on December 14, 2019, 04:59:02 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on December 14, 2019, 04:57:11 PM
Quote from: curiousorange on December 14, 2019, 04:54:57 PM
So, we have to ask the question: who's waiting in the wings?

(https://socceronsunday.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/big-sam-villa.jpg)

AAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGHHHHHH !!!!!!

Please don't do that, even in jest
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 14, 2019, 05:00:17 PM
That game was almost Lambert-esque in its rubbishness.  Sheffield United tore us a new one. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ez on December 14, 2019, 05:01:07 PM
Hes a good championship manager but regrettably I think that's all.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy65 on December 14, 2019, 05:01:59 PM
Is this really a surprise? He managed Brentford to mid table and now he is mixing it with the big boys in the prem. Prior to that it was league one and Walsall.

I was worried when his name was touted during summer 2018 to replace Bruce, but he proved me wrong last season. But maybe the prem is now a step too far. Changes need to be made and fast
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 14, 2019, 05:02:10 PM
Hi Dean,

Please start being proactive rather reactive, and if you have to be reactive please start being good at it.

Lots of love,
AVFC
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: curiousorange on December 14, 2019, 05:03:09 PM
Smith talks very well. He can explain what he wanted to do and why it did or didn't work. But increasingly Smith the talker and Smith the coach are drawing further apart.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 14, 2019, 05:03:26 PM
He was lucky to inherit two players in Grealish and McGinn who were too good for the Championship last season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Richard on December 14, 2019, 05:04:36 PM
Reminds me so much of the run from Dec to Feb last season. He's a very streaky manager so we have to pray the good run starts soon, next Saturday ideally.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: curiousorange on December 14, 2019, 05:06:06 PM
Seriously though, if we're sliding this fast it'll have to happen with the majority of the transfer window still available, and it'll need to be a manager who has a defined, organised style and knows how tough it is to grind out cheap results in this league. I can only really think of Benitez.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on December 14, 2019, 05:06:41 PM
SJM has been largely shit this season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on December 14, 2019, 05:07:10 PM
Midfield is not good enough to play as we do 4-2-3-1, we need to stop this & never start Lansbury again
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 14, 2019, 05:08:26 PM
Quote from: Richard on December 14, 2019, 05:04:36 PM
Reminds me so much of the run from Dec to Feb last season. He's a very streaky manager so we have to pray the good run starts soon, next Saturday ideally.

Southampton is an absolutely must win game.  We might need to win it just to go back ahead of them, depending on what happens today.  Even if they lose today, if they beat us we'll be three points from safety.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Jon Crofts on December 14, 2019, 05:08:55 PM
Lose Tuesday and I really do fear for him and us.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 14, 2019, 05:09:28 PM
Quote from: ez on December 14, 2019, 05:01:07 PM
Hes a good championship manager but regrettably I think that's all.

I think in time he can be good lower end prem manager but simply week in week out he's too slow tweaking things when games start going away from us and we're losing points on regular basis. You simply won't get away with it compared to championship as the standard is so higher up here compared to playing likes of Bolton and Rotherham.

Next 4 games will decide lots, just have to hope we step up in at least two of them.

I certainly agree just giving him a new deal after a few good wins was very premature although not quite as bonkers as the one Lambert got in 14/15.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 14, 2019, 05:10:17 PM
Quote from: Jon Crofts on December 14, 2019, 05:08:55 PM
Lose Tuesday and I really do fear for him and us.

Just me, but I couldn't care less about Tuesday.  A nothing game against Liverpool reserves, and even if we win we'll only get knocked out the first time a decent club plays their first team against us.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 14, 2019, 05:11:16 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 14, 2019, 05:08:26 PM
Quote from: Richard on December 14, 2019, 05:04:36 PM
Reminds me so much of the run from Dec to Feb last season. He's a very streaky manager so we have to pray the good run starts soon, next Saturday ideally.

Southampton is an absolutely must win game.  We might need to win it just to go back ahead of them, depending on what happens today.  Even if they lose today, if they beat us we'll be three points from safety.

Can see Southampton being a low scoring 1-1 tbh. Their results have actually been very good on the whole since their 9-0 defeat and they don't concede that many.

I'd be getting that sinking feeling if we can't beat Norwich given we won 5-1 away and they will come and push their FBs up so we will get more space to work with.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 14, 2019, 05:12:22 PM
Up until now he's been the right man for the job, he needs to start showing more that he's the right one for the future.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: richtheholtender on December 14, 2019, 05:16:49 PM
I thought at the start of the season that he deserves this year and most of next regardless. I still believe this to be the best course of action.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 14, 2019, 05:17:49 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 14, 2019, 05:10:17 PM
Quote from: Jon Crofts on December 14, 2019, 05:08:55 PM
Lose Tuesday and I really do fear for him and us.

Just me, but I couldn't care less about Tuesday.  A nothing game against Liverpool reserves, and even if we win we'll only get knocked out the first time a decent club plays their first team against us.

Surely we need to win just to get the morale up again? Everything has gone very flat very quickly which can happen at premier league level.

I know it's Liverpool under 12s but a win is a win and all the better if we knock in a few goals.

In our current state I simply don't think we can just dismiss it as it will just add to the negativity.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Jon Crofts on December 14, 2019, 05:21:28 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on December 14, 2019, 05:17:49 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 14, 2019, 05:10:17 PM
Quote from: Jon Crofts on December 14, 2019, 05:08:55 PM
Lose Tuesday and I really do fear for him and us.

Just me, but I couldn't care less about Tuesday.  A nothing game against Liverpool reserves, and even if we win we'll only get knocked out the first time a decent club plays their first team against us.

Surely we need to win just to get the morale up again? Everything has gone very flat very quickly which can happen at premier league level.

I know it's Liverpool under 12s but a win is a win and all the better if we knock in a few goals.

In our current state I simply don't think we can just dismiss it as it will just add to the negativity.

My thoughts exactly, a routine 2-0 home win would be fabulous thanks.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TheMalandro on December 14, 2019, 05:27:58 PM
What concerns me most,  none of his signings are playing very well.

Targett looks a coward and not particularly very talented.

I'd stick with him. Glad it's not my decision.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on December 14, 2019, 05:28:05 PM
There is no chance of him getting the sack any time soon. We've just given him a fat new contract!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy65 on December 14, 2019, 05:29:21 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on December 14, 2019, 05:28:05 PM
There is no chance of him getting the sack any time soon. We've just given him a fat new contract!

But triggered by his original contract?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on December 14, 2019, 05:29:27 PM
He’s had a chance in the pl which was right and fair. He’s left us in touch. He’ll leave very advantageously with his new contract. I think we need to be really dispassionate from here on in.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Moose on December 14, 2019, 05:32:34 PM
Pochettino still available......
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 14, 2019, 05:33:41 PM
Quote from: TheMalandro on December 14, 2019, 05:27:58 PM
What concerns me most,  none of his signings are playing very well.

Targett looks a coward and not particularly very talented.

I'd stick with him. Glad it's not my decision.

I think that's his one excuse so far, in that I think the real transfer decisions are made by Pitarch and signed off by Purslow.  Wesley has been truly woeful, but Trezeguet, Targett and Luiz haven't been much better.  Where Smith does get the full blame though is his godawful tactics and inability to either see a game out when we're winning, or make an influential change when we're losing. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 14, 2019, 05:34:36 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on December 14, 2019, 05:28:05 PM
There is no chance of him getting the sack any time soon. We've just given him a fat new contract!
You really think that our owners will risk relegation because of this?
Money talks bullshit walks.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tomd2103 on December 14, 2019, 05:37:56 PM
Quote from: Richard on December 14, 2019, 05:04:36 PM
Reminds me so much of the run from Dec to Feb last season. He's a very streaky manager so we have to pray the good run starts soon, next Saturday ideally.

We obviously went on an excellent run towards the end of last season and Dean did a very good job getting us promoted, but how ordinary we were in that mid season spell without Grealish and how we lacked ideas was something that just nagged away slightly after the euphoria died down.

Like today, if Grealish is off form, we just don’t have any attacking threat. 

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: levico on December 14, 2019, 05:38:59 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 14, 2019, 05:34:36 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on December 14, 2019, 05:28:05 PM
There is no chance of him getting the sack any time soon. We've just given him a fat new contract!
You really think that our owners will risk relegation because of this?
Money talks bullshit walks.

Hope you are right. No time for sentimentality when many millions are at stake.
Time for us to step up to the next level in management terms.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on December 14, 2019, 05:44:55 PM
Brentford are in the top four now.  With one of his former assistants in charge.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 14, 2019, 05:47:22 PM
I guarantee that he'll do that face he always does in post-match interviews after we've lost.  The one where he looks wide-eyed and puffs his cheek out.  The non-verbal equivalent of Steve Bruce's "roll your sleeves up" alternative to having a clue.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: garyshawsknee on December 14, 2019, 05:50:23 PM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on December 14, 2019, 05:44:55 PM
Brentford are in the top four now.  With one of his former assistants in charge.

I read something recently online from a Brentford fan which did worry me, something a long the lines of " great to see us play without conceding lots of chances ".
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 14, 2019, 05:53:41 PM
"Smith on Wesley: “I thought he was a lot better today. He had a couple of chances but he took a whack on his lower back, so it was time to give Kodjia an opportunity.”

Might as well sack him now if he's going to come out with bollocks like that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on December 14, 2019, 05:56:04 PM
It is December and we are in the bottom four. December is also the prime time to change manager and give a new manager a go at the January transfer window. The four game run coming up against Southampton and Norwich at Villa Park and Watford and Burnley away could stabilize him and the club or could finish him. I hope it is the former not the latter.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 14, 2019, 05:57:12 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 14, 2019, 05:53:41 PM
"Smith on Wesley: “I thought he was a lot better today. He had a couple of chances but he took a whack on his lower back, so it was time to give Kodjia an opportunity.”

Might as well sack him now if he's going to come out with bollocks like that.

I fear his heading towards Lambert territory with that nonsense. If he starts using “we go again” or appearing in press conferences like he’s slept under a bridge we will know we are fucked.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: GarTomas on December 14, 2019, 06:09:14 PM
I don’t think he’s the type to call out his players in public.

But Kodjia offered little improvement on Wesley. It’s the system we are playing that’s not working. Knocking it long to him is great if we get players up to support him.

Today we bypassed our midfield most of the time.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on December 14, 2019, 06:16:18 PM
I don't care whether he calls out the players in public - more often that not it's counter-productive - but I don't know if he's doing it in private.  Even if he is, it isn't working.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KevinGage on December 14, 2019, 06:18:50 PM
We looked close to hopeless heading into Jan last year.  But a combination of Mings' arrival, putting his faith in Steer and Jack's return got us firing.

The least he deserves is to have a crack in Jan. We need a bit of nous at the back and fresh legs up top.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dazvillain on December 14, 2019, 06:25:28 PM
Just posted this in post game thread but probably better here to discuss

My thoughts are the owners and quotes from purslow keep saying building around dean. They are more astute owners and ceo than
we’ve had in a good while so we must trust . Similar issues to previous regime but unless you’re really lucky you need cash to pay and sign decent players and manger.
I’m not interested how much we spent last last summer we had to with 15 players leaving, can’t be a prem team in history that has rebuilt that quickly before. Some have proven to be good for their prices and a couple dire, but then I’m interested in how this situation will be managed by our well run club going forward .
I love villa but watch as a football fan with interest on how we manger and run the club because that will transfer onto the pitch at some point.
I’m guessing 95% of fans on here were saying trust in dean after the play off win and stay with the players and don’t boo etc if we have bad runs, I’ve not seen the latter but there is no point in getting on Deano ‘s back, they’ve just asked him to sign an extension to his contract.... they won’t pay more money to sack him than they would of a month ago !
I’ll always love us and support from wherever I am at home or at VP because I love villa. I don’t know wether it’s best to watch us win exciting games in championship, win 10,11 or 12 on the bounce , or be in the cash loaded premiership..... which has changed in so many ways whilst we were away.

We need 9 points though from next 3 games or relegation would be a reality but then again we all made predictions this time last year but no-one knew what was about to happen between jan-May !!

Come on you villains , I don’t think we’ll buy anyone substantial in January , let’s just finish 17th and spend in summer again
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: passport1 on December 14, 2019, 06:26:01 PM
I have always felt he would be very fortunate to survive much beyond Christmas. He may 'get us' but the bottom is that he gets results.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 14, 2019, 06:26:31 PM
Quote from: curiousorange on December 14, 2019, 05:06:06 PM
Seriously though, if we're sliding this fast it'll have to happen with the majority of the transfer window still available, and it'll need to be a manager who has a defined, organised style and knows how tough it is to grind out cheap results in this league. I can only really think of Benitez.

Benitez seems to be enjoying it in China but you'd have to think he'd seriously consider coming back given we have decent money behind us again. I think he'd already be Everton manager if he didn't have such a connection with Liverpool.

Anyway up to Dean to nip things in the bud again like when we had a slow start. I'm still a long way from wanting him out but ultimately we must stay up otherwise all the goodwill that has built up in last 12 months between club and fans will simply evaporate overnight.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 14, 2019, 06:27:24 PM
The lack of a reaction after the Leicester result and performance is a worry. If we don't see a positive reaction in the next 2 home games then i'll start thinking there could be a big problem.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Meanwood Villa on December 14, 2019, 06:28:41 PM
The concerning thing is that he plays the same formation with slightly different players every single game. It really does look like he's just hoping it works and if it doesn't, do exactly the same thing.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on December 14, 2019, 06:29:25 PM
Let's be honest, we need the maximum 6 points from the next 2 home games as we look incapable of beating anyone away from home.

The midfield is a joke, we chop and change every single game.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on December 14, 2019, 06:29:36 PM
Championship manager at best - wasn't convinced when he was first appointed but he did well to get us up - no time for sentiment - the thought of us exchanging places with Smethwick is unthinkable but foreseeable right now
And whoever thought Wesley was a footballer needs sacking
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 14, 2019, 06:30:43 PM
I thought he would be tactically smarter than he is. I’m really disappointed that he only has one way of playing and come hell or high water he is going to stick to it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Fred Crump on December 14, 2019, 06:35:38 PM
Quote from: Dazvillain on December 14, 2019, 06:25:28 PM
Just posted this in post game thread but probably better here to discuss

My thoughts are the owners and quotes from purslow keep saying building around dean. They are more astute owners and ceo than
we’ve had in a good while so we must trust . Similar issues to previous regime but unless you’re really lucky you need cash to pay and sign decent players and manger.
I’m not interested how much we spent last last summer we had to with 15 players leaving, can’t be a prem team in history that has rebuilt that quickly before. Some have proven to be good for their prices and a couple dire, but then I’m interested in how this situation will be managed by our well run club going forward .
I love villa but watch as a football fan with interest on how we manger and run the club because that will transfer onto the pitch at some point.
I’m guessing 95% of fans on here were saying trust in dean after the play off win and stay with the players and don’t boo etc if we have bad runs, I’ve not seen the latter but there is no point in getting on Deano ‘s back, they’ve just asked him to sign an extension to his contract.... they won’t pay more money to sack him than they would of a month ago !
I’ll always love us and support from wherever I am at home or at VP because I love villa. I don’t know wether it’s best to watch us win exciting games in championship, win 10,11 or 12 on the bounce , or be in the cash loaded premiership..... which has changed in so many ways whilst we were away.

We need 9 points though from next 3 games or relegation would be a reality but then again we all made predictions this time last year but no-one knew what was about to happen between jan-May !!

Come on you villains , I don’t think we’ll buy anyone substantial in January , let’s just finish 17th and spend in summer again
Spot on Daz
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 14, 2019, 06:36:58 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on December 14, 2019, 06:30:43 PM
I thought he would be tactically smarter than he is. I’m really disappointed that he only has one way of playing and come hell or high water he is going to stick to it.

He's always played 4-2-3-1/4-3-3. At Walsall it was Romaine Sawyers as number 10 (he's playing a bit deeper at WBA now) and was same at Brentford. Would play two wide players although one was usually tucked in as we see when Jack plays out wide.

Don't think I can ever remember Walsall playing 3 at the back and I saw a decent amount of games in his five years there. Given how bad we've looked against Wolves and Sheffield's 3-5-2s I don't think it would be the worst thing in the world to match them up as we clearly struggle to find space and keep up with them in the two games.

My big concern all season is he's simply too slow to make changes when games are in the balance. All season it's cost us points. That's the difference between the bog standard survival premier league managers and ones who have potential to be top end managers, Dean looks to me like he'll be in the first category.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Jon Crofts on December 14, 2019, 06:43:21 PM
Apparently we were the better side defensively today according to Dean. How does that work then?

O’Leary type bollocks.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: rougegorge on December 14, 2019, 06:43:40 PM
If we don't get at least 2 wins from the next 3 games, his position will be even more precarious..

Going back down would be a disaster. We would be starting from square one again as all the good players will leave.

A few years ago Nigel Adkins did a fantastic  job with Southampton getting them into the Prem, but then the board reckoned they could do better and got in Poch in the January of that season, and they weren't in as poor a position at the time.

Presumably our board will more than likely stick with Dean having given him that extended contract?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KevinGage on December 14, 2019, 06:44:41 PM
Without knowing what they work on in training, I'm not going to advocate he suddenly switches to three at the back if he's never done that in competitive games or preparation before.  You do that, and players suddenly start to feel they're in pig in a poke territory and the bit of confidence we have will soon evaporate.

If he's not comfortable doing it, avoid.  But we need fresh impetus, even if it's within his favoured 4-3-3 etc. 

We've had iffy results before, but this is a bad spell of form.  It's a blessing that Jan is only two weeks away.  I hope new personnel are lined up and ready to come in, and we don't just wing it until Jan 31.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on December 14, 2019, 06:48:44 PM

Quote from: curiousorange on December 14, 2019, 05:06:06 PM
Seriously though, if we're sliding this fast it'll have to happen with the majority of the transfer window still available, and it'll need to be a manager who has a defined, organised style and knows how tough it is to grind out cheap results in this league. I can only really think of Benitez.
If we're talking about replacements now, I'd love to see Pochettino managing Villa.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KevinGage on December 14, 2019, 06:53:23 PM
Well Pep has a break clause in his contract, maybe we can negotiate.

I'm not sure what will transpire over the next few months but I'm pretty certain Pochettino, Van Gaal or Diego Simeone won't be in the Villa dugout anytime soon.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on December 14, 2019, 06:53:23 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on December 14, 2019, 06:30:43 PM
I thought he would be tactically smarter than he is. I’m really disappointed that he only has one way of playing and come hell or high water he is going to stick to it.
He certainly doesn't appear to be the progressive manager we all thought we were getting - Benitez would be a viable alternative - I'm just so disappointed that he appears to be going down a similar route to previous managers .......ie offering lame excuses to cover his own shortcomings - tactical nous for example - that said, the squad appears unfit compared to other teams
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: N'ZMAV on December 14, 2019, 06:55:09 PM
it's like Martin O'Neill again, in the sense that there's no plan B.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on December 14, 2019, 06:55:34 PM
After watching today's game, the issues that concern me are that Smith has to change his one-plan strategy and become more adaptable. Also, I felt today that not sussing out and nullifying the SheffU 'out-ball' game (Norwood to Baldock) seemed naive. I don't get why playing Grealish on the left wing can be beneficial in any way. And, bringing on three subs but not changing the game-plan (they were just 3 straight replacements) seems wasteful and non-productive.

In my view, playing 4-3-3 isn’t working: our fullbacks are better wingbacks and I’d applaud a go at 3-5-2, with a narrower midfield and the wingbacks exploiting the wide space.

Smith's capability is seriously under review now. That is clear.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VillaAlways on December 14, 2019, 07:04:04 PM
Quote from: N'ZMAV on December 14, 2019, 06:55:09 PM
it's like Martin O'Neill again, in the sense that there's no plan B.
And everyone in between
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy65 on December 14, 2019, 07:14:30 PM
Quote from: mr underhill on December 14, 2019, 05:06:41 PM
SJM has been largely shit this season.

Having injections before every games apparently
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on December 14, 2019, 07:14:58 PM
I don’t think smith’s a bad manager but the point getting made in all these threads is right - the difference between good championship managers and the next level is the ability to change tactics between and during games. Smith doesn’t seem to have that and his language suggests there’s virtue in sticking rigidly to an approach which obviously isn’t the case.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TheMalandro on December 14, 2019, 07:43:59 PM
Quote from: Rudy65 on December 14, 2019, 07:14:30 PM
Quote from: mr underhill on December 14, 2019, 05:06:41 PM
SJM has been largely shit this season.

Having injections before every games apparently

That would explain the crazy comment.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Fred Crump on December 14, 2019, 08:07:44 PM
I am a massive Smith admirer and I don’t like criticising him, but Mr E over in the post match thread has done a really good bit of analysis in my view. A bit more flexibility and picking the right players and formations for particular games would enable him to get the best out of the squad he’s got. I still think we will be ok , but these next few games are critical. We have to find a way of getting Jack more central, but not too deep, giving SJM a rest and getting runners beyond Wes. Then sign Bowen and a competent striker in January and we will be ok
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Fred Crump on December 14, 2019, 08:09:56 PM
... or maybe on this thread , I dunno.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TonyD on December 14, 2019, 08:19:08 PM
I can stick with a manager when you can see what he is trying to achieve even if not necessarily getting the results.

But his team selection, tactics, game management recently have been truly awful - sackable awful.

I said last week if he started Wes up front on his own again that he should be sacked.   

So the sack is what’s needed to keep us up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Holte L2 on December 14, 2019, 08:31:41 PM
Quote from: Mister E on December 14, 2019, 06:48:44 PM

Quote from: curiousorange on December 14, 2019, 05:06:06 PM
Seriously though, if we're sliding this fast it'll have to happen with the majority of the transfer window still available, and it'll need to be a manager who has a defined, organised style and knows how tough it is to grind out cheap results in this league. I can only really think of Benitez.
If we're talking about replacements now, I'd love to see Pochettino managing Villa.


Well if we are talking replacements, I'd absolutely love to see Carlo Ancelotti managing the Villa.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TonyD on December 14, 2019, 08:33:37 PM
Quote from: Holte L2 on December 14, 2019, 08:31:41 PM
Quote from: Mister E on December 14, 2019, 06:48:44 PM

Quote from: curiousorange on December 14, 2019, 05:06:06 PM
Seriously though, if we're sliding this fast it'll have to happen with the majority of the transfer window still available, and it'll need to be a manager who has a defined, organised style and knows how tough it is to grind out cheap results in this league. I can only really think of Benitez.
If we're talking about replacements now, I'd love to see Pochettino managing Villa.


Well if we are talking replacements, I'd absolutely love to see Carlo Ancelotti managing the Villa.
He is available.  But not sure he’d get a tune out of our squad.   He is more used to going to established teams. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: usav on December 14, 2019, 08:42:24 PM
Quote from: Rudy65 on December 14, 2019, 07:14:30 PM
Quote from: mr underhill on December 14, 2019, 05:06:41 PM
SJM has been largely shit this season.

Having injections before every games apparently

Then why the fuck was he playing all those games for Scotland then?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on December 14, 2019, 08:47:29 PM
A piece on radio 5 today, as I was travelling back, was about teams losing a few on the trot. Both Howe and Dyche said that in this league you have to expect and accept that, as long as you keep the confidence and belief high. They spoke as mid-table managers, with no expectation of greatness.
The challenge for Smith is to accept this and build the belief and confidence in the squad, which - at the moment - looks low.
He also needs to look at himself and deicde whether he and his management team are playing to their strengths and capabilities. I don't - for example - see the influence of Terry in our game.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on December 14, 2019, 09:15:10 PM
Quote from: Holte L2 on December 14, 2019, 08:31:41 PM
Quote from: Mister E on December 14, 2019, 06:48:44 PM

Quote from: curiousorange on December 14, 2019, 05:06:06 PM
Seriously though, if we're sliding this fast it'll have to happen with the majority of the transfer window still available, and it'll need to be a manager who has a defined, organised style and knows how tough it is to grind out cheap results in this league. I can only really think of Benitez.
If we're talking about replacements now, I'd love to see Pochettino managing Villa.


Well if we are talking replacements, I'd absolutely love to see Carlo Ancelotti managing the Villa.

Ancelotti, yes please. Just don’t see it happening
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on December 14, 2019, 09:25:01 PM
Quote from: Holte L2 on December 14, 2019, 08:31:41 PM
Quote from: Mister E on December 14, 2019, 06:48:44 PM

Quote from: curiousorange on December 14, 2019, 05:06:06 PM
Seriously though, if we're sliding this fast it'll have to happen with the majority of the transfer window still available, and it'll need to be a manager who has a defined, organised style and knows how tough it is to grind out cheap results in this league. I can only really think of Benitez.
If we're talking about replacements now, I'd love to see Pochettino managing Villa.


Well if we are talking replacements, I'd absolutely love to see Carlo Ancelotti managing the Villa.

Not Klopp, or the ghost of Jock Stein?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on December 14, 2019, 11:08:44 PM
I wouldn't be doing anything rash. Let's stick with the guy and see if he can turn round the current slump we are in. He's earnt that at least.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on December 14, 2019, 11:10:15 PM
He needs a different system. He's smart enough to come up with something, but just stubborn enough that he'll persist with this one for too long, IMO.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Flin5tone on December 14, 2019, 11:12:15 PM
Good championship manager and he has a four year deal and looks like we'll be heading back there so not all bad.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 14, 2019, 11:17:57 PM
He does need more tactical flexibility. It’s incredibly rare, if ever, Dean changes tactics to alter the course of a game. It all feels very much off a single playbook, he needs to do more.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on December 14, 2019, 11:18:20 PM
We were very unlucky not to win at Old Trafford a fee short games ago.

He’s one of us, he’s done fantastically well and we are ahead of schedule.

In sickness and in health....
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 14, 2019, 11:22:50 PM
Quote from: PeterWithe on December 14, 2019, 11:18:20 PM
We were very unlucky not to win at Old Trafford a fee short games ago.

He’s one of us, he’s done fantastically well and we are ahead of schedule.

In sickness and in health....

I want him to succeed, but he needs to show he can vary his strategy and tactics. We drop far too many points from half time onwards in games.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Footy-Vill on December 14, 2019, 11:25:03 PM
As I say after handing out a drubbing to Liverpool to move into the league cup semi finals and then beat Southampton for some daylight from bottom 3 some people's views will be very different this time next Saturday .

Hold steady as Smith is very decent and his football philosophy is superb.
I think talk of replacements or that he's not up to standard is far too premature and a little crass.

I back him 100 %
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: gpbarr on December 14, 2019, 11:26:52 PM
This is a game of money and there is no way the owners will be sitting there thinking Deano is “one of us”. Rather I suspect they will be looking at the table and seriously asking questions of Purslow about what’s going on and what needs to be done to preserve their investment. Just the way it is. If results don’t improve over the festive season, I think we will be appointing a new manager before the end of January
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on December 14, 2019, 11:28:54 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on December 14, 2019, 11:22:50 PM
Quote from: PeterWithe on December 14, 2019, 11:18:20 PM
We were very unlucky not to win at Old Trafford a fee short games ago.

He’s one of us, he’s done fantastically well and we are ahead of schedule.

In sickness and in health....

I want him to succeed, but he needs to show he can vary his strategy and tactics. We drop far too many points from half time onwards in games.

I’m not so sure that varying your tactics is such a positive where were are where we are.

He has an ideology of 4-3-3 varying this could confuse the players, he just needs some better players.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 14, 2019, 11:35:11 PM
He needs more than 4-3-3 when other teams adjust. I agree on the players point. But it doesn’t excuse the last three performances.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on December 14, 2019, 11:43:34 PM
When you look at the quality of the squad, we are about where we were always likely to be

I disagree with you in that I think 4-3-3, or it’s many variants, are by far the best system for where we are
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on December 14, 2019, 11:46:19 PM
Quote from: Vill I An on December 14, 2019, 11:25:03 PM
As I say after handing out a drubbing to Liverpool to move into the league cup semi finals and then beat Southampton for some daylight from bottom 3 some people's views will be very different this time next Saturday .

Hold steady as Smith is very decent and his football philosophy is superb.
I think talk of replacements or that he's not up to standard is far too premature and a little crass.

I back him 100 %
Conversely we get beat by a Liverpool youth team, fall to a plucky Southampton side and come unstuck in our other "must win "  games ............(Playing devils advocate here and not being obtuse)
I've no  doubt Dean Smith is a nice guy and has the right approach to the game but we need a ruthless son of a bitch to keep us up .......has he got that attribute? I don't think it at all crass to consider looking at all options to ensure we don't get relegated again and to consider better , more experienced managers if they become available - as stated elsewhere the owners will be looking to protect their investments,- no room for sentiment
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 14, 2019, 11:54:10 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on December 14, 2019, 11:46:19 PM
Quote from: Vill I An on December 14, 2019, 11:25:03 PM
As I say after handing out a drubbing to Liverpool to move into the league cup semi finals and then beat Southampton for some daylight from bottom 3 some people's views will be very different this time next Saturday .

Hold steady as Smith is very decent and his football philosophy is superb.
I think talk of replacements or that he's not up to standard is far too premature and a little crass.

I back him 100 %
Conversely we get beat by a Liverpool youth team, fall to a plucky Southampton side and come unstuck in our other "must win "  games ............(Playing devils advocate here and not being obtuse)
I've no  doubt Dean Smith is a nice guy and has the right approach to the game but we need a ruthless son of a bitch to keep us up .......has he got that attribute? I don't think it at all crass to consider looking at all options to ensure we don't get relegated again and to consider better , more experienced managers if they become available - as stated elsewhere the owners will be looking to protect their investments,- no room for sentiment


Yes he'll probably get the sack if that happens sometime in January.

So far though we're the only team in prem yet to play either Norwich or Southampton. They are both below us for a reason. We beat one of them 5-1 away from home two months ago.

Why are teams like Everton and West Ham starting to pull away from us? Because they are playing these teams. Those two have both beaten Southampton and Watford this season.

We have also done well in home games when the pressure has started to heat up. Disappointing to lose our first two but we then stepped up and beat Everton. Then lost three in a row but convincingly took over Newcastle.

Whether people are rating DS or not currently he certainly deserves the two winnable home games. I'll fully assess things on January 1st. There's still a good chunk of games left and a transfer window even if a change has to be made.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 15, 2019, 12:01:15 AM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on December 14, 2019, 11:54:10 PM
So far though we're the only team in prem yet to play either Norwich or Southampton. They are both below us for a reason. We beat one of them 5-1 away from home two months ago.


So we haven't played Norwich yet but have beaten them, can I have some of what you're smoking/drinking please!

Did you mean Watford and Saints?

And if we lose the next 4 DS is going to be on very thin ice my pedrigree chum.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BMGq9eoCIAAcrXs.jpg)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on December 15, 2019, 12:01:20 AM
Fair comment SHQ ........ I want to see him succeed but we can't afford any sentimentality towards him because he is a nice guy and Villa Man
I never want us to lose any game but I would forego cup wins for league victories over our closest rivals right now
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tomd2103 on December 15, 2019, 12:05:21 AM
Quote from: Clampy on December 14, 2019, 11:08:44 PM
I wouldn't be doing anything rash. Let's stick with the guy and see if he can turn round the current slump we are in. He's earnt that at least.

Yep.  Let's see how the next three league games go and where we are after that. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 15, 2019, 12:05:37 AM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on December 15, 2019, 12:01:15 AM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on December 14, 2019, 11:54:10 PM
So far though we're the only team in prem yet to play either Norwich or Southampton. They are both below us for a reason. We beat one of them 5-1 away from home two months ago.


So we haven't played Norwich yet but have beaten them, can I have some of what you're smoking/drinking please!

Ha have to say it's a good job I'm about as far from being famous or newsworthy as you can get. Never mind penning an autobiography I need a proof reader just for my posts on here that I have to constantly edit because of repeat words used or wrong use or adjectives etc.

I meant to say Watford and Southampton but also put in the Norwich 5-1 game.

Anyway we have yet to play two of the weakest teams in the league so let's see if DS can boost our points tally after playing them like Pellegrini and Marco Silva did which kept them in their jobs for a bit longer.

(proof read over).
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 15, 2019, 12:11:17 AM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on December 15, 2019, 12:05:37 AM
because of repeat words used or wrong use or adjectives etc.

(proof read over).

Worst proof reader ever

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/2O5RVsmxqiA/maxresdefault.jpg)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 15, 2019, 12:11:44 AM
I'm sorry, it was just too tempting.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on December 15, 2019, 12:14:02 AM
Quote from: Clampy on December 14, 2019, 11:08:44 PM
I wouldn't be doing anything rash. Let's stick with the guy and see if he can turn round the current slump we are in. He's earnt that at least.

Assuming he realises he has to buck his ideas up, or change them, I agree.  But how long does he get?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 15, 2019, 12:15:41 AM
*searches for the Christ the redeemer head in hands GIF*

Could've been worse, I noticed before I was about to hit send I missed the r out of Proof!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on December 15, 2019, 12:18:44 AM
Is the Simpson's reference due to the fact it appears Dean Smith struggles in away games and is therefore considered a "Homer"
I'll get my coat :)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on December 15, 2019, 01:22:56 AM
I still think he's fine. There are so many mitigating factors that he deserves a long while yet.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on December 15, 2019, 01:36:20 AM
Quote from: Drummond on December 15, 2019, 01:22:56 AM
I still think he's fine. There are so many mitigating factors that he deserves a long while yet.

I like Dean Smith and I hope he turns it around but I am not sure there are that many mitigating factors. Did we back him in the summer, yes. Have we been decimated by injuries, no. Is it okay that we are below Sheffield United, Palace, Newcastle, Burnley, Brighton, Bournemouth and West Ham?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ROBBO on December 15, 2019, 01:58:28 AM
What's Rafa up to these days?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tony scott on December 15, 2019, 02:02:33 AM
I think the club will keep Dean even if we are relegated I just hope it doesn’t turn out that way, there must be a limit to continuity.  I have noticed recently he has referred to himself as coach, I just wonder if he is distancing himself from the responsability  of new player signings.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OzVilla on December 15, 2019, 02:37:09 AM
Losing faith quickly in Smith. Just totally inflexible, making the same mistakes over and over, dreadful game management plus we look far less fit than other teams. This is his domain and we’re constantly coming up short.

Needs 7 points in the next 3 games or he’ll be in massive trouble and I really won’t gave much sympathy.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 15, 2019, 03:03:00 AM
Quote from: tony scott on December 15, 2019, 02:02:33 AM
I think the club will keep Dean even if we are relegated I just hope it doesn’t turn out that way, there must be a limit to continuity.  I have noticed recently he has referred to himself as coach, I just wonder if he is distancing himself from the responsability  of new player signings.

His title is head coach, not manager.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Allan C on December 15, 2019, 08:08:09 AM
The answer is yes to your last question. All of those clubs with the exception of Sheffield United are established Premier Lge clubs, we are not. We are not half way through the season yet and I’m sure we’ve all figured out that there are no easy games. Sheff U will eventually go through this kind of spell as will the others with the possible exception of Liverpool. Two wins and we’ll be pushing the top ten.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brassneck on December 15, 2019, 08:10:15 AM
We've got to somehow get Jack back playing in the middle with SJM.

My biggest concern is our inability to play against teams who go 3 at the back (Wolves Brighton) or who play wide (Sheffield United).  We all knew what was coming yesterday but it was so frustrating at watching the ease at which they got the ball out to unmarked players in wide positions.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Kimaster1976 on December 15, 2019, 08:23:05 AM
We went through this last season when we had that 10+ game spell after Grealish got injured and we turned to shit. We knew what was coming game after game and Smith did not change one thing or try anything different.

Grealish returned and it all came good, mainly because he is far too good for the Championship.

We have no saviour to return this time and Smith has to come up with the answers to turn this slump around. Yet just like last season he is doing absolutely nothing but putting out the same players in the same system game after game after game and hoping for the best.

Very concerning.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: London Villan on December 15, 2019, 08:26:41 AM
It would require a total change in style and to lose the wingers.
3421. With the 2 being Jack and SJM and the width coming from the 2 wide midfielders. Just can’t seen Dean doing that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brassneck on December 15, 2019, 08:29:18 AM
With the exception of the Newcastle game, we've played the top 7 clubs on the bounce.

On paper, we would not have expected to have won any of those games (which we didn't).  It has only really been the last 3 where we've been a poor second best (Chelsea, Leicester & Sheffield).

It is ridiculous to target Smith at this point, especially after the run of opponents we have just had. 

Let's see what the next 4 games bring.  Beat Southampton and 1 other and we have daylight between us.  Get a couple of draws from the other 2 and we should be up to around 14th.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Bobby Boy on December 15, 2019, 08:47:04 AM
Quote from: Brassneck on December 15, 2019, 08:29:18 AM
With the exception of the Newcastle game, we've played the top 7 clubs on the bounce.

On paper, we would not have expected to have won any of those games (which we didn't).  It has only really been the last 3 where we've been a poor second best (Chelsea, Leicester & Sheffield).

It is ridiculous to target Smith at this point, especially after the run of opponents we have just had. 

Let's see what the next 4 games bring.  Beat Southampton and 1 other and we have daylight between us.  Get a couple of draws from the other 2 and we should be up to around 14th.

You make it sound so straightforward. I hope that your optimism is rewarded. What worries me is that the performances have dipped. It can be easy in a league as demanding as this to get into a death spiral when it's hard to see where the next point is coming from let alone the next 3.

So far this season we have pulled out results when it looked like this could be about to happen, think Norwich away and Newcastle at home. This is why Southampton next Saturday is so big.

Losing doesn't bear thinking about.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on December 15, 2019, 09:01:00 AM
More reflections: I don’t think Smith has to bring in loads of new players. I think he needs another striker (someone like Danny Ings) to play alongside Wesley or Davis in a 4-4-2 at home and a 4-5-1 away.
I’d see the best line-up as being: Heaton -  Guilbert Engels Mings (or Hause) Targett – Nakamba Grealish McGinn Hourihane – Wesley New Guy.
Away from home, I’d bench Wesley and bring in Luiz.
Playing without wingers would mean we are more compact (utilising our skilful midfielders) and gives space for our 2 fullbacks to get down the line.
Doing this would being greater combativeness in MF, with the ability to break quickly or drop back as required. The New Guy would need to be a player who can work his nuts off when we are not in possession and can slip into the channels when we do have the ball.
We’d need players to be passing and moving much more slickly and dynamically.
All of this is possible if Smith wants it to be, That will actually be the challenge.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brassneck on December 15, 2019, 09:09:59 AM
Quote from: Bobby Boy on December 15, 2019, 08:47:04 AM
Quote from: Brassneck on December 15, 2019, 08:29:18 AM
With the exception of the Newcastle game, we've played the top 7 clubs on the bounce.

On paper, we would not have expected to have won any of those games (which we didn't).  It has only really been the last 3 where we've been a poor second best (Chelsea, Leicester & Sheffield).

It is ridiculous to target Smith at this point, especially after the run of opponents we have just had. 

Let's see what the next 4 games bring.  Beat Southampton and 1 other and we have daylight between us.  Get a couple of draws from the other 2 and we should be up to around 14th.

You make it sound so straightforward. I hope that your optimism is rewarded. What worries me is that the performances have dipped. It can be easy in a league as demanding as this to get into a death spiral when it's hard to see where the next point is coming from let alone the next 3.

So far this season we have pulled out results when it looked like this could be about to happen, think Norwich away and Newcastle at home. This is why Southampton next Saturday is so big.

Losing doesn't bear thinking about.

It is straightforward - We need to pick up points against those teams around us, anything from the top 7 is a bonus (we've just got 1 out of 21 from them).

This has always been the case since before a ball was kicked.

It is wrong to judge Smith on the past 8 games or that form has dipped in the last 3.  Let's get to January 2nd and see how the land lies.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TelfordVilla on December 15, 2019, 09:19:21 AM
it is ridiculous to even talk of replacing Dean Smith at all. There is no better manager for Villa than Dean Smith regardless of current results. Rome wasn't built in a day and Manure were shit for a long time whilst Fergusson built his squad, Chelsea Mancity and 'The Mighty Reds YNWA' have all taken time to build their squads as did Wenger at Arsenal. Get some patience or continue to see a revolving managers door. If Smith goes Grealish will be out in no time too. We knew this season would be tough but at least it is entertaining along the way.....or would you prefer bruceball back again ?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Flin5tone on December 15, 2019, 10:02:06 AM
I'd say what we have now isn't any better than 'Bruceball' what are people watching? I love DS and want  him to succeed but the football of late has been horrific.

Any other manager would have got far worse criticism for how we turned up at Wolves and ever since it's been terrible. Two Huge games in the PL now to turn it around

 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ktvillan on December 15, 2019, 10:15:06 AM
I normally get frustrated with managers who don't display a sense of having an overarching plan and philosophy that includes trying to play good, attacking football and bringing through or bringing in talented young players who can apply the philosophy.  You can see that Smith is trying to do something like that and it's a refreshing change from the dinosaurs like Bruce, Mcleish and O'Neill and incompetent fuckwits like Lambert and Sherwood. That's why I'm way more patient with him, not because he's "one of us".

But -  tactical nous and flexibility is a big part of succeeding with such a philosophy and Smith looks alarmingly wanting in that department so far.  You often see other managers making small tactical or personnel changes at half time (e.g. Rogers) that swing things their way, because they have spotted how to nullify danger areas or exploit weaknesses.  Smith doesn't seem to have that ability.   Unless he develops it very soon he'll be in big trouble and so will we.         
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: lukey27 on December 15, 2019, 10:17:32 AM
Smith isn't going to change tact or suddenly play three at the back. He's going to stick to 4-3-3 and trust the players to be better.

With the formation we play, the fullbacks are absolutely vital and in the last 3-4 games they've been very poor. Positionally, drifting inside, losing runners, giving the ball away. It's a long list.

Ahead of that, the midfield has lacked energy and we haven't moved the ball quick enough. The ball has bounced off Wesley, and he is coming far too deep.

These individual performances need to massively improve and that is Smith's challenge.

Fans inevitably throw out "no plan B" "poor subsitutions" because its easy. I think every football manager is thrown this when they are not winning games. Consistency of selection and formation are praised when you win games, and flipped when you're losing. That's the nature of the game.

The next 4 games will be vital to our season and Smiths long term prospects as our boss. I back him to do it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ktvillan on December 15, 2019, 10:28:52 AM
Of course you will be praised when winning games, because that means what you are doing is working.  It's when it's no longer working that good managers show their mettle, by having the ability to tweak things or get more out of their players.  It doesn't have to be a drastic change of formation or personnel, it's often small things that show the manager is on the ball and can see what's unfolding before him and has some ideas of how to combat it.  Loads of people on here pointing out how easy it was for Sheffield to play those long crossfield balls to their wide players.  It's a tactic frequently employed by them.  If the fans knew in advance about this tactic, and could see it working during the game, why couldn't Smith and his team, and why didn't they do something to address it?

We also look tired and unfit.  There's no excuse for that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: geolex on December 15, 2019, 10:33:01 AM
Quote from: TelfordVilla on December 15, 2019, 09:19:21 AM
it is ridiculous to even talk of replacing Dean Smith at all. There is no better manager for Villa than Dean Smith regardless of current results. Rome wasn't built in a day and Manure were shit for a long time whilst Fergusson built his squad, Chelsea Mancity and 'The Mighty Reds YNWA' have all taken time to build their squads as did Wenger at Arsenal. Get some patience or continue to see a revolving managers door. If Smith goes Grealish will be out in no time too. We knew this season would be tough but at least it is entertaining along the way.....or would you prefer bruceball back again ?
[

true but none  of those teams were i danger of being relegated
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on December 15, 2019, 10:38:29 AM
Not a big fan of playing 3 centre half’s (sp?) unless they are very good on the ball and tactically capable of moving into midfield in possession. Otherwise they are often marking one forward giving the opposition superior numbers elsewhere.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: supertom on December 15, 2019, 10:43:06 AM
Smith can't organise a defence. You can get away with that in the championship but not here. This is where I'd have thought Terry would earn his crust but he's new to coaching and maybe he's there for 'personality.' Fulham found out the hard way you need a plan B, particularly when you're bedding in a whole new side. One thing that Sheffield Utd are for example, is incredibly well drilled. They do play their way, and it's also been said Wilder will rarely budge from it but I think he's more tactically minded, and because they kept consistency from their last few years, everyone knows each other and knows what they're doing.

If we can't defend because we play 2 CH's (none of whom are experienced in the Prem) and our defensive midfielders are new to this level too, and our fullbacks can attack but can't defend, then we're seeing the results of this. As they season has gone on and we're getting wearier, we're falling apart more and getting resoundly beaten. Early season, some of those results we could put down to bad luck perhaps, a bit of naivety, but we were lucky the last 3 games to keep the scores as they were.

Retrospect is wonderful but if I could go back I'd have given Whelan a years deal and had him play in certain games or come out to see out games. Hell, I'd have 'Bruced' a few games this year. Newcastle aren't teeming with quality, but they're way ahead. They might hate his brand but that's what comes with a bit of experience at the top. I'd have also considered Hutton on a deal, because who are the big characters in our team? Grealish is skipper, he's been good, but he's not the 'big' character type who'll throw around some bollockings. Next in line is probably Mings. He's a positive influence, a strong character but he's young and whilst he's 26, he's lost 2-3 years of development. He's the same as the 22-23 year olds still learning, making errors. He needs a Whelan type, been around the block more than a few times, to just keep on at him. 'Sharpen the fuck up lad.' There's been games where we've looked leaderless on the pitch, because no one knows what they're doing at this level when you're against the wall. You could look a fancy dan in the ring pinging jabs, maybe grabbing a few knock outs, but maybe you get the bouts where you don't know how to deal with the grabbers or get out of a corner, or how to play after round 6 because you've got no legs.

I'd have taken a punt on Sturridge as an alternative to Wesley.

As things stand, I'd be considering a back 3. If our wingers don't defend and our fullbacks leave acres, when our center halves get drawn across we'd benefit from the extra man, and those fullbacks would be able to express themselves a bit more. It also allows for more fluid style of play too, which is why it's becoming more in vogue again. The best exponents of the back 3 always have that quarterback, like Cody at Wolves who's good on the ball. Mings could be that. He's got the ability.

Above all, Deano, needs to learn quickly that you can't bullheadedly play how you aspire to against anyone. When it's not working, players don't know what to do, the confidence goes. Wesley is non-existent as a focal point so we don't keep the ball up top either. We paid no respect to Sheffield Utd because we should have had a far more disciplined game plan and played deeper. They duly, because they know what they're doing, battered us.

We may aspire to play football but you can't account for how a team presses, or lines up, or pushes you back (okay you can, if you've got more nous). I never see us play a particular way against certain sides, short of having Marvellous and Luiz against 'the big' sides (and maybe being a little deeper) .It's too fucking basic. Who's analysing every opponent? Who's looking at how to nulify a Wolves, or Sheff Utd? This to me, is not much different to Tim Sherwood. When it worked, we looked quite good, but when it didn't, because he approached games without any game plan beyond being expressive, we were wrecked. Games go by like that Southampton hammering which was basically the first coffin nail. Or the Cup Final. Problems are there from minute one and until the 90th, nothing is done to address it. Smith is basically doing the same. Yes at least his original game plan is more considered and his grasp of the game, but that lack of ability to turn things around is causing problems.

 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TonyD on December 15, 2019, 10:44:08 AM
Quote from: ktvillan on December 15, 2019, 10:15:06 AM
I normally get frustrated with managers who don't display a sense of having an overarching plan and philosophy that includes trying to play good, attacking football and bringing through or bringing in talented young players who can apply the philosophy.  You can see that Smith is trying to do something like that and it's a refreshing change from the dinosaurs like Bruce, Mcleish and O'Neill and incompetent fuckwits like Lambert and Sherwood. That's why I'm way more patient with him, not because he's "one of us".

But -  tactical nous and flexibility is a big part of succeeding with such a philosophy and Smith looks alarmingly wanting in that department so far.  You often see other managers making small tactical or personnel changes at half time (e.g. Rogers) that swing things their way, because they have spotted how to nullify danger areas or exploit weaknesses.  Smith doesn't seem to have that ability.   Unless he develops it very soon he'll be in big trouble and so will we.         
Very well put.   I suppose he has a few games to suddenly develop tactical awareness.  But I’m not holding my breath.  Some of his shortcomings are such basic common sense stuff that most of us can see them easily.  It’s a real worry. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on December 15, 2019, 11:12:15 AM
You took off Wesley when it was 1-0, what was the thinking?

"I thought he was a lot better today. John Egan and Jack O'Connell, Basham who I know, I thought we got the ball into him and he made it stick. We won second balls off him and he had a couple of chances. There was one at the start of the second half where I thought he was going to lob the goalkeeper with his left foot, he decided to bring it down instead. He had a chance where he's turned and hit it into the side netting. He just got a whack into his lower back just before that and I thought it was the right time to give Jonathan Kodjia an opportunity.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 15, 2019, 11:31:25 AM
Very good posts Supertom and KT.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on December 15, 2019, 11:32:19 AM
Quote from: supertom on December 15, 2019, 10:43:06 AM
Smith can't organise a defence. You can get away with that in the championship but not here. This is where I'd have thought Terry would earn his crust  ...  at least his original game plan is more considered and his grasp of the game, but that lack of ability to turn things around is causing problems.

Tom, that is a super post, and it captures alot of what's been going on.
Question: why can the club not see that trying the same old approach and expecting a different outcome is foolish?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 15, 2019, 11:35:16 AM
Quote from: Mister E on December 15, 2019, 11:32:19 AM
Quote from: supertom on December 15, 2019, 10:43:06 AM
Smith can't organise a defence. You can get away with that in the championship but not here. This is where I'd have thought Terry would earn his crust  ...  at least his original game plan is more considered and his grasp of the game, but that lack of ability to turn things around is causing problems.

Tom, that is a super post, and it captures alot of what's been going on.
Question: why can the club not see that trying the same old approach and expecting a different outcome is foolish?
We are back to that definition of insanity, doing the same thing but expecting different results.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 15, 2019, 11:57:51 AM
On the defence point, I think ¾ of it is OK, ie the central pairing and Guilbert, and Heaton is fine.  But the midfield in front of it is the problem.  There's no settled three, and they provide no protection at all.  The make up of it changes every week, as Smith lurches between a combination of Nakamba, Luiz, McGinn and Hourihane.  McGinn has probably been the worst of the lot in recent games, but is the only guaranteed starter.  In addition, neither El Ghazi or Trezeguet provide any protection down the right.  In short I just don't think the formation is working, but Smith is welded to it like a limpet to a rock.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ktvillan on December 15, 2019, 01:23:11 PM
Some good points supertom - Smith says he always goes out to win a game but I'd agree sometimes, with a new squad in the PL and struggling, you might need to try and grind out the odd result like Bruce did with Toon at Spurs.  I hate that kind of football but maybe occasionally it's necessary to reconsolidate and get a few unexpected points.  We're not very good at that though.  The Whelan comment has merit too.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: not3bad on December 15, 2019, 01:31:03 PM
Quote from: TonyD on December 15, 2019, 10:44:08 AM
Quote from: ktvillan on December 15, 2019, 10:15:06 AM
I normally get frustrated with managers who don't display a sense of having an overarching plan and philosophy that includes trying to play good, attacking football and bringing through or bringing in talented young players who can apply the philosophy.  You can see that Smith is trying to do something like that and it's a refreshing change from the dinosaurs like Bruce, Mcleish and O'Neill and incompetent fuckwits like Lambert and Sherwood. That's why I'm way more patient with him, not because he's "one of us".

But -  tactical nous and flexibility is a big part of succeeding with such a philosophy and Smith looks alarmingly wanting in that department so far.  You often see other managers making small tactical or personnel changes at half time (e.g. Rogers) that swing things their way, because they have spotted how to nullify danger areas or exploit weaknesses.  Smith doesn't seem to have that ability.   Unless he develops it very soon he'll be in big trouble and so will we.         
Very well put.   I suppose he has a few games to suddenly develop tactical awareness.  But I’m not holding my breath.  Some of his shortcomings are such basic common sense stuff that most of us can see them easily.  It’s a real worry. 

That sounds a bit harsh and does not take into account the fact that Smith is less than halfway into his first premier league season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on December 15, 2019, 01:48:05 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 15, 2019, 11:57:51 AM
On the defence point, I think ¾ of it is OK, ie the central pairing and Guilbert, and Heaton is fine.  But the midfield in front of it is the problem.  There's no settled three, and they provide no protection at all.  The make up of it changes every week, as Smith lurches between a combination of Nakamba, Luiz, McGinn and Hourihane.  McGinn has probably been the worst of the lot in recent games, but is the only guaranteed starter.  In addition, neither El Ghazi or Trezeguet provide any protection down the right.  In short I just don't think the formation is working, but Smith is welded to it like a limpet to a rock.

Midfield is a mess and has been all season. Early on there was the two number eights as Smith put it, with Grealish central and ineffective. The switch up v Brighton certainly improved matters but only for a while. In the last three games the space behind Grealish has been relentlessly targeted successfully. Targett is frankly a hopeless defender at this level but he gets little or no support from the midfielder on that side, Hourihane, Luiz, Lansbury in the last three games. It baffles me why Smith at a minimum is not switching Nakamba over there.

On Smith generally, he is really struggling now. It beggars belief that the first sub yesterday was from Wilder given how poor we were. None of Smith's subs effected a tactical change which again was baffling.

We need to cobble together some kind of formation that makes us harder to play against. Maybe three at the back would help but it means our centre backs being very positive on the ball.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 15, 2019, 01:54:44 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 15, 2019, 11:57:51 AM
On the defence point, I think ¾ of it is OK, ie the central pairing and Guilbert, and Heaton is fine.  But the midfield in front of it is the problem.  There's no settled three, and they provide no protection at all.  The make up of it changes every week, as Smith lurches between a combination of Nakamba, Luiz, McGinn and Hourihane.  McGinn has probably been the worst of the lot in recent games, but is the only guaranteed starter.  In addition, neither El Ghazi or Trezeguet provide any protection down the right.  In short I just don't think the formation is working, but Smith is welded to it like a limpet to a rock.
Agree, the formation is not working and it’s apparent that the players are not suited to it.
I would rather build on the back 4 than try and go to 3 5 2 because this would just bring in even more confusion.
We need to build more protection defensively and get our best players into the game.
4 3 3 is not doing it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villafirst on December 15, 2019, 02:47:03 PM
I find the DS post-match interviews all sounding the same lately. Players making silly mistakes and gIving the ball away cheaply. There doesn't seem to be a Plan B. 4 points from the last 24 is relegation form.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 15, 2019, 02:47:56 PM
Quote from: Villafirst on December 15, 2019, 02:47:03 PM
I find the DS post-match interviews all sounding the same lately. Players making silly mistakes and gIving the ball away cheaply. There doesn't seem to be a Plan B. 4 points from the last 24 is relegation form.

It’s always, always the players who are at fault and never him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: David_Nab on December 15, 2019, 03:05:20 PM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on December 15, 2019, 11:12:15 AM
You took off Wesley when it was 1-0, what was the thinking?

"I thought he was a lot better today. John Egan and Jack O'Connell, Basham who I know, I thought we got the ball into him and he made it stick. We won second balls off him and he had a couple of chances. There was one at the start of the second half where I thought he was going to lob the goalkeeper with his left foot, he decided to bring it down instead. He had a chance where he's turned and hit it into the side netting. He just got a whack into his lower back just before that and I thought it was the right time to give Jonathan Kodjia an opportunity.

Kodjia is on the bench as we literally have no one else , despite the positive comments from DS on Kodjia he has no faith at all in him at this level.If we have Davis or another striker Wes would not be playing full 90 minutes
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Flin5tone on December 15, 2019, 03:07:51 PM
Quote from: Villafirst on December 15, 2019, 02:47:03 PM
I find the DS post-match interviews all sounding the same lately. Players making silly mistakes and gIving the ball away cheaply. There doesn't seem to be a Plan B. 4 points from the last 24 is relegation form.

It's all very Paul Lambert
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on December 15, 2019, 03:25:15 PM
At the start of the season most of us wanted above all to stay up, so the benchmark is 17th in the league. If we’d have taken that before this season kicked off the same theory would have come with a run of games without a win few times in a season, with periods with loss of form. So far we are pretty much in and around that position and pretty much how I expected this season to pan out.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on December 15, 2019, 03:34:08 PM
Quote from: Ian J on December 15, 2019, 03:25:15 PM
At the start of the season most of us wanted above all to stay up, so the benchmark is 17th in the league. If we’d have taken that before this season kicked off the same theory would have come with a run of games without a win few times in a season, with periods with loss of form. So far we are pretty much in and around that position and pretty much how I expected this season to pan out.

yeah we would have accepted 17th but honestly I was hoping for better than that and still am

maybe I’m being unrealistic but I did think we would be playing better than we are
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on December 15, 2019, 03:39:29 PM
Quote from: john e on December 15, 2019, 03:34:08 PM
Quote from: Ian J on December 15, 2019, 03:25:15 PM
At the start of the season most of us wanted above all to stay up, so the benchmark is 17th in the league. If we’d have taken that before this season kicked off the same theory would have come with a run of games without a win few times in a season, with periods with loss of form. So far we are pretty much in and around that position and pretty much how I expected this season to pan out.

yeah we would have accepted 17th but honestly I was hoping for better than that and still am

maybe I’m being unrealistic but I did think we would be playing better than we are
I’m still hopeful we will. We haven’t turned into a bad team overnight so let’s see what the next few matches bring.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: FatSam on December 15, 2019, 04:43:58 PM
I’m fully behind DS. We already knew from his Brentford days that his teams go through long good then bad runs. I’m wondering whether it’s is a product of being inflexible tactically. His teams get into a groove, either good, in which case he keeps things similar for obvious reasons, or bad, in which case he doesn’t do much to arrest the slump. I’d like to see I’m learn to adapt a bit more.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on December 15, 2019, 04:55:12 PM
Quote from: FatSam on December 15, 2019, 04:43:58 PM
I’m fully behind DS. We already knew from his Brentford days that his teams go through long good then bad runs. I’m wondering whether it’s is a product of being inflexible tactically. His teams get into a groove, either good, in which case he keeps things similar for obvious reasons, or bad, in which case he doesn’t do much to arrest the slump. I’d like to see I’m learn to adapt a bit more.
Or maybe the bad periods are down to a limited squad? We have a pretty good first 11, maybe only 10 as the jury is certainly out on Wes. Past that it certainly showing some of our players are either not quite ready, or up to speed with this league or maybe not good enough.

I’m sure Brentford never had a big squad either.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on December 15, 2019, 04:59:53 PM
Quote from: Ian J on December 15, 2019, 04:55:12 PM
We have a pretty good first 11, maybe only 10 as the jury is certainly out on Wes.

Pretty good first 10?

Which of are squad are demonstrably good enough for this level? Not potentially, but clearly as demonstrated thus far this season.

Heaton, Mings, Engels, Guilbert, Grealish, McGinn.

That's it in my opinion.

Our options up front - Kodjia, Wesley, Davis - are particularly poor. How many sides would we expect to stay up with those options up front?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AV82EC on December 15, 2019, 05:06:41 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on December 15, 2019, 04:59:53 PM
Quote from: Ian J on December 15, 2019, 04:55:12 PM
We have a pretty good first 11, maybe only 10 as the jury is certainly out on Wes.

Pretty good first 10?

Which of are squad are demonstrably good enough for this level? Not potentially, but clearly as demonstrated thus far this season.

Heaton, Mings, Engels, Guilbert, Grealish, McGinn.

That's it in my opinion.

Our options up front - Kodjia, Wesley, Davis - are particularly poor. How many sides would we expect to stay up with those options up front?

Very much agree with this. We’ve got 5 places up for grabs in the team at the moment and no one is really doing much to cement their place other than maybe Targett. Nakamba and Luiz are struggling to adapt and our up front options Wesley, Trez, El Ghazi, Davis, Jota have been woeful.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on December 15, 2019, 05:35:00 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on December 15, 2019, 04:59:53 PM
Quote from: Ian J on December 15, 2019, 04:55:12 PM
We have a pretty good first 11, maybe only 10 as the jury is certainly out on Wes.

Pretty good first 10?

Which of are squad are demonstrably good enough for this level? Not potentially, but clearly as demonstrated thus far this season.

Heaton, Mings, Engels, Guilbert, Grealish, McGinn.

That's it in my opinion.

Our options up front - Kodjia, Wesley, Davis - are particularly poor. How many sides would we expect to stay up with those options up front?
We’ve had some very good performances with the starting 11 but unfortunately we have not got the results we may have deserved which is why I still have hope. I agree we’re barely good enough to stay up, hopefully just about, but I don’t think is down to Smith’s abilities.

What I’m trying say is before we kicked off this season we hoped to finish above 18th, and if we did just about do that we knew it was going to be a very rough ride before the season started. So what has changed now that is happening?

I do hope we can strengthen in January, we certainly can do with it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on December 15, 2019, 07:31:26 PM
The football is not great, Dean needs to change things & he doesn’t. We have played well & lost, played badly & lost. I just hope we stop up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on December 15, 2019, 09:03:51 PM
As Paulie has indicated, I don't think Dean has the armoury to change things too much.  The bench isn't great, many players are out of form, Dean is not altering the way we play to fit the match.  Not good signs. We cannot afford to sign the up and comings in January unless the CEO has accepted that we might go down and we put things in place for a quick return.  Begs another question:  how about we yo-yo for a couple of years until we find out feet?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 15, 2019, 09:07:44 PM
Quote from: Newby on December 15, 2019, 09:03:51 PM
Begs another question:  how about we yo-yo for a couple of years until we find out feet?

No ta. We've seen already what a slog the Championship is and how hard it is to get out of.  Go down and that's the last time we'll see jack in a Villa shirt.  I hope that Smith keeps us up, but the next three games are enormous and if he doesn't sort it out then he needs to be sacked before January.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 15, 2019, 09:21:14 PM
Lose Saturday and they will be tempted to call Poch.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on December 15, 2019, 09:26:50 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 15, 2019, 09:07:44 PM
Quote from: Newby on December 15, 2019, 09:03:51 PM
Begs another question:  how about we yo-yo for a couple of years until we find out feet?

No ta. We've seen already what a slog the Championship is and how hard it is to get out of.  Go down and that's the last time we'll see jack in a Villa shirt.  I hope that Smith keeps us up, but the next three games are enormous and if he doesn't sort it out then he needs to be sacked before January.

If I'm honest Risso, I think the optimum time to sack him will be tomorrow so they can bring someone in to have a quick look at the squad in readiness for making a few smart signings in January. It's such a gamble either way.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AVH87 on December 15, 2019, 09:27:16 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 15, 2019, 09:21:14 PM
Lose Saturday and they will be tempted to call Poch.

Well that will be a short conversation.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 15, 2019, 09:31:34 PM
Quote from: AVH87 on December 15, 2019, 09:27:16 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 15, 2019, 09:21:14 PM
Lose Saturday and they will be tempted to call Poch.

Well that will be a short conversation.
Yeh,when can I start.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AVH87 on December 15, 2019, 09:34:01 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 15, 2019, 09:31:34 PM
Quote from: AVH87 on December 15, 2019, 09:27:16 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 15, 2019, 09:21:14 PM
Lose Saturday and they will be tempted to call Poch.

Well that will be a short conversation.
Yeh,when can I start.

Not sure if you've been drinking or are just trolling a bit.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 15, 2019, 09:37:30 PM
Quote from: AVH87 on December 15, 2019, 09:34:01 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 15, 2019, 09:31:34 PM
Quote from: AVH87 on December 15, 2019, 09:27:16 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 15, 2019, 09:21:14 PM
Lose Saturday and they will be tempted to call Poch.

Well that will be a short conversation.
Yeh,when can I start.

Not sure if you've been drinking or are just trolling a bit.
Neither.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AVH87 on December 15, 2019, 09:41:56 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 15, 2019, 09:37:30 PM
Quote from: AVH87 on December 15, 2019, 09:34:01 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 15, 2019, 09:31:34 PM
Quote from: AVH87 on December 15, 2019, 09:27:16 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 15, 2019, 09:21:14 PM
Lose Saturday and they will be tempted to call Poch.

Well that will be a short conversation.
Yeh,when can I start.

Not sure if you've been drinking or are just trolling a bit.
Neither.

So Poch would even think for more than a second about coming here?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on December 15, 2019, 09:46:20 PM
I doubt if Poch would come but there is always a chance. Newcastle got Benitez. Championship Leeds got Bielsa. However I am still hoping and believing Dean will be a success and our run of fixtures coming up will improve our position.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on December 15, 2019, 11:04:15 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on December 15, 2019, 04:59:53 PM
Quote from: Ian J on December 15, 2019, 04:55:12 PM
We have a pretty good first 11, maybe only 10 as the jury is certainly out on Wes.

Pretty good first 10?

Which of are squad are demonstrably good enough for this level? Not potentially, but clearly as demonstrated thus far this season.

Heaton, Mings, Engels, Guilbert, Grealish, McGinn.

That's it in my opinion.

Our options up front - Kodjia, Wesley, Davis - are particularly poor. How many sides would we expect to stay up with those options up front?

The options up front are very poor but the root cause of our problem is in midfield and has been all season. We are far too easy to play against. We lack mobility, presence and bite in there and it's killing us.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 15, 2019, 11:08:31 PM
While it's highly unlikely he'd come there's always a chance. Owners offer a very good salary, sell a vision to him of where they want the club to go, show him an annual budget that has every chance of getting us there and so on. Maybe it would be what he's looking for, maybe he wouldn't touch us with a barge pole.
Doesn't matter either way though as we already have a head coach.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ROBBO on December 16, 2019, 12:00:26 AM
If Southampton turn us over I think attitudes could change.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 16, 2019, 01:56:30 AM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on December 15, 2019, 11:08:31 PM
While it's highly unlikely he'd come there's always a chance. Owners offer a very good salary, sell a vision to him of where they want the club to go, show him an annual budget that has every chance of getting us there and so on. Maybe it would be what he's looking for, maybe he wouldn't touch us with a barge pole.
Doesn't matter either way though as we already have a head coach.
One thing I was hoping for with new owners is that, should we ever be in the market for a new manager it would not be the usual list of suspects like Moyes or Fat Sam or another Lambert /Bruce type chancer.
If our intentions are to be competing at the top end of the league then we have to recruit accordingly.
If you want players for that level then you need a manager that will attract those players.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on December 16, 2019, 02:07:00 AM
Agree wholeheartedly. We'll know we've really made the big time again when some of our fans stop thinking of us as a Brummie version of Norwich or Watford.

We have loads of money and we're fucking massive. We should act like it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on December 16, 2019, 06:56:45 AM
Quote from: Newby on December 15, 2019, 09:26:50 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 15, 2019, 09:07:44 PM
Quote from: Newby on December 15, 2019, 09:03:51 PM
Begs another question:  how about we yo-yo for a couple of years until we find out feet?

No ta. We've seen already what a slog the Championship is and how hard it is to get out of.  Go down and that's the last time we'll see jack in a Villa shirt.  I hope that Smith keeps us up, but the next three games are enormous and if he doesn't sort it out then he needs to be sacked before January.

If I'm honest Risso, I think the optimum time to sack him will be tomorrow so they can bring someone in to have a quick look at the squad in readiness for making a few smart signings in January. It's such a gamble either way.

Ridiculous. Suggesting sacking a manager we've just handed a new contract to, on the even of a cup quarter final? Yes, we are in a bit of a slump and yes things do we need to improve but the lack of patience is truly staggering.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on December 16, 2019, 08:10:00 AM
Precisely Clampy!
It's not that long ago we took 4 points from the 2 uniteds (it could easily have been 6).
How about a little support (there's a novel concept) for Deano and the team before and around the Christmas fixtures, instead of calling for a new manager and then we'll see where we are going into the new year.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Allan C on December 16, 2019, 08:30:16 AM
Absolutely spot on. I can’t believe what I read on here sometimes. Absolutely unbelievable
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: darren woolley on December 16, 2019, 09:23:04 AM
I'm 110% behind Dean Smith we will be Ok come the end of the season we need to get behind Dean Smith and the team and give them our full support can't keep sacking managers just because we aren't playing well some of the things I have read on social media are truly unbelievable.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on December 16, 2019, 09:33:37 AM
Theres an element of our support which really grinds my gears. Walked into the pub on Saturday just after Grealish had missed the pen and my mate who has been slagging off Dean and co since about 4 games into the season come running over to me and said "i told you he's crap. Smith's gotta goo and ranted joyously (cos he likes being right) we're going down, the owners are in it for the money and just wan't the 100 mill parachute payments" Fuck me we have some negative fans that really know how to take being negative to the next level.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on December 16, 2019, 09:41:07 AM
I'm as frustrated as anyone but this talk of sacking Smith is highly premature IMO.

He has 3 huge winnable games coming up with which to set things right. Win them all and we could be comfortably mid-table. Win two, draw one, we're still in good shape. Etc. etc.

If we're down in the bottom 3 after those games, I could forgive the talk of sacking him, but does he really deserve to lose his job at this present moment in time? I don't think so.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on December 16, 2019, 09:53:55 AM
Quote from: Clampy on December 16, 2019, 06:56:45 AM
Quote from: Newby on December 15, 2019, 09:26:50 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 15, 2019, 09:07:44 PM
Quote from: Newby on December 15, 2019, 09:03:51 PM
Begs another question:  how about we yo-yo for a couple of years until we find out feet?

No ta. We've seen already what a slog the Championship is and how hard it is to get out of.  Go down and that's the last time we'll see jack in a Villa shirt.  I hope that Smith keeps us up, but the next three games are enormous and if he doesn't sort it out then he needs to be sacked before January.

If I'm honest Risso, I think the optimum time to sack him will be tomorrow so they can bring someone in to have a quick look at the squad in readiness for making a few smart signings in January. It's such a gamble either way.

Ridiculous. Suggesting sacking a manager we've just handed a new contract to, on the even of a cup quarter final? Yes, we are in a bit of a slump and yes things do we need to improve but the lack of patience is truly staggering.

I have never once said that I think we should sack him.  I am simply saying that if the club were to sack him, then this week would seem to be the most sensible time to do it.  Let me be clear Clampy.  I am not suggesting he is sacked at this point.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on December 16, 2019, 09:54:11 AM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on December 16, 2019, 09:41:07 AM
I'm as frustrated as anyone but this talk of sacking Smith is highly premature IMO.

He has 3 huge winnable games coming up with which to set things right. Win them all and we could be comfortably mid-table. Win two, draw one, we're still in good shape. Etc. etc.

If we're down in the bottom 3 after those games, I could forgive the talk of sacking him, but does he really deserve to lose his job at this present moment in time? I don't think so.
Agreed ATAL.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nelly on December 16, 2019, 10:08:45 AM
There's definitely an element amongst our support who just revel in misfortune and seem to naturally gravitate towards only seeing the worst possible outcomes. Each to their own I guess.

Yes this run of results has been brutal but for me, I'm fully behind Dean Smith. We've been down the road of swapping managers constantly and it's part of the reason we ultimately got relegated. We've been so fortunate to get back to the top flight, earlier than expected. We as fans are integral to the mood around the club. We can foster an atmosphere of strength and unity in the face of hardship, or we can panic and help to create a storm.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Footy-Vill on December 16, 2019, 10:09:20 AM
In my view 100% Smith will build this team and squad that what he does.

Respectfully I acknowledge others thoughts that there are calls to want some sort of change or notable difference in performance or style and tactics

For me no I'm firmly in the Smith is definitely the man for Villa at this time and long term as long as all goes ok.
I genuinely feel comfortable and confident with Dean Smith and his ability as a coach.

And of course Liverpool in the cup and the Southampton and Norwich matches are won and won well then everyone smiling
Certainly winning the two games this week , and with some panache will go some way to
alleviating the discontented.
I can't help thinking if Villa don't win these games comfortably then be grievances by some villa folk.

Most importantly the wins are the key .
I don't see much to fear from the cup and the next 2 matches and in all honesty I expect Villa to show some good football in these matches and a few goals.
It will , expectedly  be a lot easier in these 3 matches that it has all season and then confidence taken into Watford match.
I'm sticking with Smith no reason not too.

 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on December 16, 2019, 10:45:03 AM
Quote from: Clampy on December 16, 2019, 06:56:45 AM
Quote from: Newby on December 15, 2019, 09:26:50 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 15, 2019, 09:07:44 PM
Quote from: Newby on December 15, 2019, 09:03:51 PM
Begs another question:  how about we yo-yo for a couple of years until we find out feet?

No ta. We've seen already what a slog the Championship is and how hard it is to get out of.  Go down and that's the last time we'll see jack in a Villa shirt.  I hope that Smith keeps us up, but the next three games are enormous and if he doesn't sort it out then he needs to be sacked before January.

If I'm honest Risso, I think the optimum time to sack him will be tomorrow so they can bring someone in to have a quick look at the squad in readiness for making a few smart signings in January. It's such a gamble either way.

Ridiculous. Suggesting sacking a manager we've just handed a new contract to, on the even of a cup quarter final? Yes, we are in a bit of a slump and yes things do we need to improve but the lack of patience is truly staggering.

Given what we spent in the summer, any manager with 15 points after 17 games would be under serious pressure. Particularly one who is simply not learning from his mistakes. Next three games are huge and we go into them on the back of dreadful performances in recent games.

If Smith wasn't a Villa fan there wouldn't be a single poster suggesting we back him all the way back to the championship.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on December 16, 2019, 10:55:22 AM
Quote from: brontebilly on December 16, 2019, 10:45:03 AM
Quote from: Clampy on December 16, 2019, 06:56:45 AM
Quote from: Newby on December 15, 2019, 09:26:50 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 15, 2019, 09:07:44 PM
Quote from: Newby on December 15, 2019, 09:03:51 PM
Begs another question:  how about we yo-yo for a couple of years until we find out feet?

No ta. We've seen already what a slog the Championship is and how hard it is to get out of.  Go down and that's the last time we'll see jack in a Villa shirt.  I hope that Smith keeps us up, but the next three games are enormous and if he doesn't sort it out then he needs to be sacked before January.

If I'm honest Risso, I think the optimum time to sack him will be tomorrow so they can bring someone in to have a quick look at the squad in readiness for making a few smart signings in January. It's such a gamble either way.

Ridiculous. Suggesting sacking a manager we've just handed a new contract to, on the even of a cup quarter final? Yes, we are in a bit of a slump and yes things do we need to improve but the lack of patience is truly staggering.

Given what we spent in the summer, any manager with 15 points after 17 games would be under serious pressure. Particularly one who is simply not learning from his mistakes. Next three games are huge and we go into them on the back of dreadful performances in recent games.

If Smith wasn't a Villa fan there wouldn't be a single poster suggesting we back him all the way back to the championship.
Dreadful performances? I was at Old Trafford just 2 weeks ago when we got a well deserved draw and could of won it but for the heel of Jack Grealish. I think some perspective needs to be applied on here by some posters.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SheffieldVillain on December 16, 2019, 11:26:59 AM
Quote from: brontebilly on December 16, 2019, 10:45:03 AM
Quote from: Clampy on December 16, 2019, 06:56:45 AM
Quote from: Newby on December 15, 2019, 09:26:50 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 15, 2019, 09:07:44 PM
Quote from: Newby on December 15, 2019, 09:03:51 PM
Begs another question:  how about we yo-yo for a couple of years until we find out feet?

No ta. We've seen already what a slog the Championship is and how hard it is to get out of.  Go down and that's the last time we'll see jack in a Villa shirt.  I hope that Smith keeps us up, but the next three games are enormous and if he doesn't sort it out then he needs to be sacked before January.

If I'm honest Risso, I think the optimum time to sack him will be tomorrow so they can bring someone in to have a quick look at the squad in readiness for making a few smart signings in January. It's such a gamble either way.

Ridiculous. Suggesting sacking a manager we've just handed a new contract to, on the even of a cup quarter final? Yes, we are in a bit of a slump and yes things do we need to improve but the lack of patience is truly staggering.

Given what we spent in the summer, any manager with 15 points after 17 games would be under serious pressure. Particularly one who is simply not learning from his mistakes. Next three games are huge and we go into them on the back of dreadful performances in recent games.

If Smith wasn't a Villa fan there wouldn't be a single poster suggesting we back him all the way back to the championship.

We spent the money in the summer because we had to replace virtually an entire squad who were past it and out of contract, thanks to the previous manager. You can't use the money spent as a stick to beat him with, he's had to bring in 13 players so the total is going to be high. It wasn't an Everton situation where he's had £200m to spend just on a few additions. By all means, comment on performance but money spent has got nothing to do with it as a qualifier.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 16, 2019, 11:48:59 AM
Quote from: ROBBO on December 16, 2019, 12:00:26 AM
If Southampton turn us over I think attitudes could change.

We would be under huge pressure. It's the biggest match we've played since the play off final so the players need to train well this week, get some confidence from playing Liverpool under 12s and be ready for the match.

We lose to Southampton and we're 3 points behind them all of a sudden. Indeed if Everton draw at home to Arsenal (I expect them to win given what a shower Arsenal are) we'll be 3 points just off 17th.

Hugely disappointing given how comfortable we were after the Newcastle game and there's no doubt Wes and Nas wouldn't just be sat there twiddling their thumbs.

Feelers would start be put out especially as we have a decent run of fixtures up to start of March. Let's hope it dose't come to that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cannock villa on December 16, 2019, 12:19:31 PM
Lets just remember the first season back in the old First Division after Graham Taylor got us promoted, we stayed up by goal difference over West Ham. If he had been sacked then we would not have had the following season of being runners up to Liverpool. Dean Smith is still the same manager that we were all praising last May so we need to show a bit of class as supporters and give him time.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 16, 2019, 12:24:56 PM
Quote from: cannock villa on December 16, 2019, 12:19:31 PM
Lets just remember the first season back in the old First Division after Graham Taylor got us promoted, we stayed up by goal difference over West Ham. If he had been sacked then we would not have had the following season of being runners up to Liverpool. Dean Smith is still the same manager that we were all praising last May so we need to show a bit of class as supporters and give him time.

Taylor's season has absolutely no bearing on this season whatsoever.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on December 16, 2019, 12:40:09 PM
I am worried for Dean but at this moment and on balance I am not for changing the manager.  Three winnable games as has been said.  But look at the runs the jack average teams in this league tend to go on.  Arsenal didn't win for two months then fluked a win at Wet Spam - so have won once in that two month spell. Wet Spam - how long since they won before they played well and won against Chelsea before being back to turgid against Arsenal.  Burnley didn't win for a while.  Bournemouth went on a horrendous run - then they somehow manage to win at Chelsea.  This is what the league is about below I would say the top two - because even Citeh with all their billions have been inconsistent this season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on December 16, 2019, 12:51:35 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 15, 2019, 11:31:25 AM
Very good posts Supertom and KT.

Including the bots about Whelan, Hutton and Sturridge?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cannock villa on December 16, 2019, 01:16:58 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 16, 2019, 12:24:56 PM
Quote from: cannock villa on December 16, 2019, 12:19:31 PM
Lets just remember the first season back in the old First Division after Graham Taylor got us promoted, we stayed up by goal difference over West Ham. If he had been sacked then we would not have had the following season of being runners up to Liverpool. Dean Smith is still the same manager that we were all praising last May so we need to show a bit of class as supporters and give him time.

Taylor's season has absolutely no bearing on this season whatsoever.

Your missing the point, it was about us fans keeping faith.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on December 16, 2019, 02:12:06 PM
Quote from: SheffieldVillain on December 16, 2019, 11:26:59 AM
Quote from: brontebilly on December 16, 2019, 10:45:03 AM
Quote from: Clampy on December 16, 2019, 06:56:45 AM
Quote from: Newby on December 15, 2019, 09:26:50 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 15, 2019, 09:07:44 PM
Quote from: Newby on December 15, 2019, 09:03:51 PM
Begs another question:  how about we yo-yo for a couple of years until we find out feet?

No ta. We've seen already what a slog the Championship is and how hard it is to get out of.  Go down and that's the last time we'll see jack in a Villa shirt.  I hope that Smith keeps us up, but the next three games are enormous and if he doesn't sort it out then he needs to be sacked before January.

If I'm honest Risso, I think the optimum time to sack him will be tomorrow so they can bring someone in to have a quick look at the squad in readiness for making a few smart signings in January. It's such a gamble either way.

Ridiculous. Suggesting sacking a manager we've just handed a new contract to, on the even of a cup quarter final? Yes, we are in a bit of a slump and yes things do we need to improve but the lack of patience is truly staggering.

Given what we spent in the summer, any manager with 15 points after 17 games would be under serious pressure. Particularly one who is simply not learning from his mistakes. Next three games are huge and we go into them on the back of dreadful performances in recent games.

If Smith wasn't a Villa fan there wouldn't be a single poster suggesting we back him all the way back to the championship.

We spent the money in the summer because we had to replace virtually an entire squad who were past it and out of contract, thanks to the previous manager. You can't use the money spent as a stick to beat him with, he's had to bring in 13 players so the total is going to be high. It wasn't an Everton situation where he's had £200m to spend just on a few additions. By all means, comment on performance but money spent has got nothing to do with it as a qualifier.

Fair enough was going to take time to bed them in, though Mings and AEG were re-signed and many others are just squad filler replacing squad filler. But our performance levels are falling off a cliff in recent weeks, at this stage the team should be improving. It wasn't as if Smith was picking up players from the bargain basement either. 15m on a left back, 22m on a striker, 15m on a playmaker, 16m or so on our two backup centre backs.....
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on December 16, 2019, 02:16:45 PM
Quote from: The Edge on December 16, 2019, 10:55:22 AM
Quote from: brontebilly on December 16, 2019, 10:45:03 AM
Quote from: Clampy on December 16, 2019, 06:56:45 AM
Quote from: Newby on December 15, 2019, 09:26:50 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 15, 2019, 09:07:44 PM
Quote from: Newby on December 15, 2019, 09:03:51 PM
Begs another question:  how about we yo-yo for a couple of years until we find out feet?

No ta. We've seen already what a slog the Championship is and how hard it is to get out of.  Go down and that's the last time we'll see jack in a Villa shirt.  I hope that Smith keeps us up, but the next three games are enormous and if he doesn't sort it out then he needs to be sacked before January.

If I'm honest Risso, I think the optimum time to sack him will be tomorrow so they can bring someone in to have a quick look at the squad in readiness for making a few smart signings in January. It's such a gamble either way.

Ridiculous. Suggesting sacking a manager we've just handed a new contract to, on the even of a cup quarter final? Yes, we are in a bit of a slump and yes things do we need to improve but the lack of patience is truly staggering.

Given what we spent in the summer, any manager with 15 points after 17 games would be under serious pressure. Particularly one who is simply not learning from his mistakes. Next three games are huge and we go into them on the back of dreadful performances in recent games.

If Smith wasn't a Villa fan there wouldn't be a single poster suggesting we back him all the way back to the championship.
Dreadful performances? I was at Old Trafford just 2 weeks ago when we got a well deserved draw and could of won it but for the heel of Jack Grealish. I think some perspective needs to be applied on here by some posters.

Man Utd are a bog standard mid table team these days. Everton also got a deserved point there yesterday. Decent performance but a point at Old Trafford isn't what it once was. Martial also missed from two yards out late on. Arguably the final score in the three performances since flattered us.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on December 16, 2019, 02:44:14 PM
It's not because he's a Villa fan. It's because he's been here barely a year,  worked one miracle already and we've had a few bad performances against better teams than us. If you want him sacked after that, good luck persuading any decent manager that joining the Villa would be anything other than disastrous for his career.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 16, 2019, 02:51:07 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on December 16, 2019, 02:44:14 PM
good luck persuading any decent manager that joining the Villa would be anything other than disastrous for his career.

I don't think that argument stands up to much scrutiny. People said it last year about Bruce in respect of him getting us to the play off final and his family situation, but Dean Smith still joined.  I don't think many managers would not take a job because they think the previous incumbent was sacked too quickly.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on December 16, 2019, 02:57:39 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 16, 2019, 02:51:07 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on December 16, 2019, 02:44:14 PM
good luck persuading any decent manager that joining the Villa would be anything other than disastrous for his career.

I don't think that argument stands up to much scrutiny. People said it last year about Bruce in respect of him getting us to the play off final and his family situation, but Dean Smith still joined.  I don't think many managers would not take a job because they think the previous incumbent was sacked too quickly.

Do you not think Dean Smith just might be a unique case where Villa are concerned, and Bruce had two tears of failurw to justify his sacking. There's your scrutiny.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 16, 2019, 03:16:23 PM
Quote from: Drummond on December 16, 2019, 12:51:35 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 15, 2019, 11:31:25 AM
Very good posts Supertom and KT.

Including the bots about Whelan, Hutton and Sturridge?
I mentally glossed over the names but agree on the sentiment.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on December 16, 2019, 03:18:49 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on December 16, 2019, 02:44:14 PM
It's not because he's a Villa fan. It's because he's been here barely a year,  worked one miracle already and we've had a few bad performances against better teams than us. If you want him sacked after that, good luck persuading any decent manager that joining the Villa would be anything other than disastrous for his career.

Villa Park has been a career ender for many a promising or decent manager for nigh on 30 years. Yet they still come, why is that?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 16, 2019, 03:25:55 PM
I think it is too early to talk about sacking Smith.
But he does need to get a response from this team starting Saturday.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cannock villa on December 16, 2019, 03:28:07 PM
Quote from: brontebilly on December 16, 2019, 03:18:49 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on December 16, 2019, 02:44:14 PM
It's not because he's a Villa fan. It's because he's been here barely a year,  worked one miracle already and we've had a few bad performances against better teams than us. If you want him sacked after that, good luck persuading any decent manager that joining the Villa would be anything other than disastrous for his career.

Villa Park has been a career ender for many a promising or decent manager for nigh on 30 years. Yet they still come, why is that?

Probably because in terms of size of club, we have been a step up for all of them and they would have also increased their wages sizeably.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on December 16, 2019, 03:28:49 PM
Quote from: brontebilly on December 16, 2019, 03:18:49 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on December 16, 2019, 02:44:14 PM
It's not because he's a Villa fan. It's because he's been here barely a year,  worked one miracle already and we've had a few bad performances against better teams than us. If you want him sacked after that, good luck persuading any decent manager that joining the Villa would be anything other than disastrous for his career.

Villa Park has been a career ender for many a promising or decent manager for nigh on 30 years. Yet they still come, why is that?

Because for most of them it was either a step up or their destiny. Most of them also failed.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Moose on December 16, 2019, 03:29:28 PM
Promising or decent managers haven't worked for over 20 years. We are now richer than ever, owners with success in mind.....why not go for Pochettino? I like Dean, but how long will the owners give him?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Footy-Vill on December 16, 2019, 03:31:19 PM
Quote from: cannock villa on December 16, 2019, 12:19:31 PM
Lets just remember the first season back in the old First Division after Graham Taylor got us promoted, we stayed up by goal difference over West Ham. If he had been sacked then we would not have had the following season of being runners up to Liverpool. Dean Smith is still the same manager that we were all praising last May so we need to show a bit of class as supporters and give him time.

This is the attitudes I'm all for!
Dean Smith knows the game .
If he felt he wasn't up to it he walk for the sake of Villa.
however he is up to it and this post is a good indication to remind of what can happen
Allen allez allez
In Dean we trust
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 16, 2019, 03:34:53 PM
We're one of the biggest club in the most popular league in the world, owned by some of the richest men on the planet.  I don't want Dean Smith to fail and be sacked, but if he does, then there won't be a shortage of candidates.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Bad English on December 16, 2019, 03:38:46 PM
Deeeeeaaaaaanoooooooo!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on December 16, 2019, 03:41:23 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 16, 2019, 03:34:53 PM
We're one of the biggest club in the most popular league in the world, owned by some of the richest men on the planet.  I don't want Dean Smith to fail and be sacked, but if he does, then there won't be a shortage of candidates.

I'd agree, but then do we really want to be known as a barmpot of a club that hires and fires all the time? Where people start to treat us like we're treating them, i.e. badly, and the whole thing becomes a disaster? Do we want to start demanding unrealistic immediate results leading to more and more short-term thinking?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 16, 2019, 03:42:22 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 16, 2019, 03:34:53 PM
We're one of the biggest club in the most popular league in the world, owned by some of the richest men on the planet.  I don't want Dean Smith to fail and be sacked, but if he does, then there won't be a shortage of candidates.

I would hope that should the time come for that tough decision we won’t hesitate if there is legitimately someone better out there to rescue the situation and push us on. And I don’t mean some stop gap appointment either. That said I hope it never comes to that and in a month or so we are all wondering what all the fuss was about because we’ve pulled ourselves clear of trouble.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Bad English on December 16, 2019, 03:43:12 PM
Quote from: Drummond on December 16, 2019, 03:41:23 PM
I'd agree, but then do we really want to be known as a barmpot of a club
It's called a cobpot.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 16, 2019, 03:51:29 PM
Quote from: Drummond on December 16, 2019, 03:41:23 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 16, 2019, 03:34:53 PM
We're one of the biggest club in the most popular league in the world, owned by some of the richest men on the planet.  I don't want Dean Smith to fail and be sacked, but if he does, then there won't be a shortage of candidates.

I'd agree, but then do we really want to be known as a barmpot of a club that hires and fires all the time? Where people start to treat us like we're treating them, i.e. badly, and the whole thing becomes a disaster? Do we want to start demanding unrealistic immediate results leading to more and more short-term thinking?

It's no different to any other club.  Look at Leicester.  Sacked Ranieri after the most amazing title win ever, then had two managers in two years.  Didn't stop Brendan Rodgers going there.  If Dean Smith proves he's the man for the job, then superb, I really couldn't be more pleased.  If he doesn't, then he gets the chop and we move on.  Fortunately for him, he's now got the three easiest fixtures of the year in a row, and he's got the opportunity to put some space between us and the bottom three. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 16, 2019, 04:11:40 PM
One of the most sought after managers in Europe in Pochettino was fired because it was the right thing to do for Spurs. Mourinho has come in and arguably exceeded all expectations and while Pochettino is someone Spurs fans won’t forget and the majority will still have great respect and affection for, I bet they are all delighted with how their team is playing now. We have to be ruthless if it’s needed. No room for sentiment.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on December 16, 2019, 04:15:21 PM
If you really think we could bring in someone like Pochettino now, I've got a bridge you can buy.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Richard E on December 16, 2019, 04:16:42 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on December 16, 2019, 04:15:21 PM
If you really think we could bring in someone like Pochettino now, I've got a bridge you can buy.

Cantilever or suspension? And can you deliver it?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 16, 2019, 04:18:15 PM
I'd hope when the time does come the owners are more ambitious than some of the fans are. He may well not come, if he's available we won't know unless we try.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 16, 2019, 04:37:48 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on December 16, 2019, 04:15:21 PM
If you really think we could bring in someone like Pochettino now, I've got a bridge you can buy.

Where did I suggest we could?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on December 16, 2019, 04:39:01 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on December 16, 2019, 04:37:48 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on December 16, 2019, 04:15:21 PM
If you really think we could bring in someone like Pochettino now, I've got a bridge you can buy.

Where did I suggest we could?

Bringing him into the debate does tend to imply it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 16, 2019, 04:42:00 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on December 16, 2019, 04:39:01 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on December 16, 2019, 04:37:48 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on December 16, 2019, 04:15:21 PM
If you really think we could bring in someone like Pochettino now, I've got a bridge you can buy.

Where did I suggest we could?

Bringing him into the debate does tend to imply it.

Not at all. My point is very simply that if things aren’t going to plan and there is someone better out there then we should be looking to make that move. Mourinho was out there for Spurs despite having Pochettino. Southampton got Pochettino while they had Adkins. The job of Purslow is to evaluate the situation and make a business move such that we maintain our PL status and progress as a club. With or without the current manager.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Richard E on December 16, 2019, 04:53:14 PM
Yeah anyway, about this bridge?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 16, 2019, 05:02:48 PM
Quote from: Richard E on December 16, 2019, 04:53:14 PM
Yeah anyway, about this bridge?
I saw it first.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: wince on December 16, 2019, 05:07:32 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 16, 2019, 05:02:48 PM
Quote from: Richard E on December 16, 2019, 04:53:14 PM
Yeah anyway, about this bridge?
I saw it first.

Is it a bridge over troubled water?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on December 16, 2019, 05:28:44 PM
Quote from: Bad English on December 16, 2019, 03:43:12 PM
Quote from: Drummond on December 16, 2019, 03:41:23 PM
I'd agree, but then do we really want to be known as a barmpot of a club
It's called a cobpot.
I see what you did there
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on December 16, 2019, 06:04:00 PM
Quote from: wince on December 16, 2019, 05:07:32 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 16, 2019, 05:02:48 PM
Quote from: Richard E on December 16, 2019, 04:53:14 PM
Yeah anyway, about this bridge?
I saw it first.

Is it a bridge over troubled water?
Nah, a bridge of sighs.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on December 16, 2019, 06:05:19 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 16, 2019, 03:51:29 PM
It's no different to any other club.  Look at Leicester.  Sacked Ranieri after the most amazing title win ever, then had two managers in two years.  Didn't stop Brendan Rodgers going there.  If Dean Smith proves he's the man for the job, then superb, I really couldn't be more pleased.  If he doesn't, then he gets the chop and we move on.  Fortunately for him, he's now got the three easiest fixtures of the year in a row, and he's got the opportunity to put some space between us and the bottom three. 
Yes, this is the right mentality; one that reflects the world we're in today.
References to Graham Taylor are not really relevant at all.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Moose on December 16, 2019, 06:17:05 PM
Wayne?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on December 16, 2019, 07:13:00 PM
Quote from: The Edge on December 16, 2019, 05:28:44 PM
Quote from: Bad English on December 16, 2019, 03:43:12 PM
Quote from: Drummond on December 16, 2019, 03:41:23 PM
I'd agree, but then do we really want to be known as a barmpot of a club
It's called a cobpot.
I see what you did there
Bap pot surely ;)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on December 16, 2019, 07:16:28 PM
Haven't we already burnt (burned) all of our bridges ?
Or do we cross that one when we get to it ?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Footy-Vill on December 16, 2019, 09:23:29 PM
Until Villa go out of this league cup Smith could well win something .
Poo chinos never won a thing.
He will never reach such heights with anyone.
Dean Smith is our man. He knows the club anyone else outside of that would be foolish at this moment.
Even Gareth Southgate.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on December 16, 2019, 09:28:58 PM
Edit: wrong thread
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Allan C on December 17, 2019, 11:21:38 AM
Quote from: brontebilly on December 16, 2019, 03:18:49 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on December 16, 2019, 02:44:14 PM
It's not because he's a Villa fan. It's because he's been here barely a year,  worked one miracle already and we've had a few bad performances against better teams than us. If you want him sacked after that, good luck persuading any decent manager that joining the Villa would be anything other than disastrous for his career.

Villa Park has been a career ender for many a promising or decent manager for nigh on 30 years. Yet they still come, why is that?
Interesting comment. Name them then?? The “promising or decent” managers in the last 30 years who’s career was ended by coming to Villa??
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 17, 2019, 11:24:34 AM
Quote from: Allan C on December 17, 2019, 11:21:38 AM
Quote from: brontebilly on December 16, 2019, 03:18:49 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on December 16, 2019, 02:44:14 PM
It's not because he's a Villa fan. It's because he's been here barely a year,  worked one miracle already and we've had a few bad performances against better teams than us. If you want him sacked after that, good luck persuading any decent manager that joining the Villa would be anything other than disastrous for his career.

Villa Park has been a career ender for many a promising or decent manager for nigh on 30 years. Yet they still come, why is that?
Interesting comment. Name them then?? The “promising or decent” managers in the last 30 years who’s career was ended by coming to Villa??

Lambert
Gregory
O'Leary
Di Matteo
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Allan C on December 17, 2019, 11:28:57 AM
Quote from: Risso on December 17, 2019, 11:24:34 AM
Quote from: Allan C on December 17, 2019, 11:21:38 AM
Quote from: brontebilly on December 16, 2019, 03:18:49 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on December 16, 2019, 02:44:14 PM
It's not because he's a Villa fan. It's because he's been here barely a year,  worked one miracle already and we've had a few bad performances against better teams than us. If you want him sacked after that, good luck persuading any decent manager that joining the Villa would be anything other than disastrous for his career.

Villa Park has been a career ender for many a promising or decent manager for nigh on 30 years. Yet they still come, why is that?
Interesting comment. Name them then?? The “promising or decent” managers in the last 30 years who’s career was ended by coming to Villa??

Lambert
Gregory
O'Leary
Di Matteo
And which one of those falls into the “promising or decent” category ??
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chipsticks on December 17, 2019, 11:31:55 AM
Quote from: Allan C on December 17, 2019, 11:28:57 AM
Quote from: Risso on December 17, 2019, 11:24:34 AM
Quote from: Allan C on December 17, 2019, 11:21:38 AM
Quote from: brontebilly on December 16, 2019, 03:18:49 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on December 16, 2019, 02:44:14 PM
It's not because he's a Villa fan. It's because he's been here barely a year,  worked one miracle already and we've had a few bad performances against better teams than us. If you want him sacked after that, good luck persuading any decent manager that joining the Villa would be anything other than disastrous for his career.

Villa Park has been a career ender for many a promising or decent manager for nigh on 30 years. Yet they still come, why is that?
Interesting comment. Name them then?? The “promising or decent” managers in the last 30 years who’s career was ended by coming to Villa??

Lambert
Gregory
O'Leary
Di Matteo
And which one of those falls into the “promising or decent” category ??

Lambert was definitely promising at the time. Considered an up-and-coming British manager.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on December 17, 2019, 11:38:12 AM
None of those people had their careers ended by the Villa. They were 'promising', seen as up and coming. All it does is show that we're systemically poor at picking someone who's actually any better than the level they're at when we employ them. Which to me means that if we want to head for the stars, we need someone who's already made that trip.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on December 17, 2019, 11:39:37 AM
Brian Little.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on December 17, 2019, 11:39:49 AM
^^^does not apply to Smith. My reality depends on it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clark W Griswold on December 17, 2019, 11:45:42 AM
I was thinking similar. Lambert has managed to get himself plenty of work since and largely been shit, his Norwich success seems to be the exception to the rule. The other three, do we really know whether they've been for loads of interviews and struggled to get work since? I would have thought Gregory and De Matteo would still have a good shout of getting work even in the PL and O'Leary could have worked his way back up. As for how promising they were, Gregory had never managed anyone, the others were ok but hardly touted as the new Ferguson.

I think it's ridiculous to suggest offing Smith at the moment, if we get 0 points out of the next 3 then i could at least understand people starting to say it but i still wouldn't agree. Maybe if we get into March and things look utterly hopeless and irreversible but i really don't like promoted managers being sacked in their first season in the league above.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 17, 2019, 12:37:11 PM
Quote from: Allan C on December 17, 2019, 11:28:57 AM
Quote from: Risso on December 17, 2019, 11:24:34 AM
Quote from: Allan C on December 17, 2019, 11:21:38 AM
Quote from: brontebilly on December 16, 2019, 03:18:49 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on December 16, 2019, 02:44:14 PM
It's not because he's a Villa fan. It's because he's been here barely a year,  worked one miracle already and we've had a few bad performances against better teams than us. If you want him sacked after that, good luck persuading any decent manager that joining the Villa would be anything other than disastrous for his career.

Villa Park has been a career ender for many a promising or decent manager for nigh on 30 years. Yet they still come, why is that?
Interesting comment. Name them then?? The “promising or decent” managers in the last 30 years who’s career was ended by coming to Villa??

Lambert
Gregory
O'Leary
Di Matteo
And which one of those falls into the “promising or decent” category ??

All of them at the time, hence me mentioning them.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on December 17, 2019, 01:22:33 PM
You can throw Remi Garde in there as well.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on December 17, 2019, 01:30:12 PM
Quote from: Clampy on December 17, 2019, 01:22:33 PM
You can throw Remi Garde in there as well.
You mean another to throw into the scrap heap? ;)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tomd2103 on December 17, 2019, 02:40:37 PM
Quote from: Clark W Griswold on December 17, 2019, 11:45:42 AM
I was thinking similar. Lambert has managed to get himself plenty of work since and largely been shit, his Norwich success seems to be the exception to the rule. The other three, do we really know whether they've been for loads of interviews and struggled to get work since? I would have thought Gregory and De Matteo would still have a good shout of getting work even in the PL and O'Leary could have worked his way back up. As for how promising they were, Gregory had never managed anyone, the others were ok but hardly touted as the new Ferguson.

I think it's ridiculous to suggest offing Smith at the moment, if we get 0 points out of the next 3 then i could at least understand people starting to say it but i still wouldn't agree. Maybe if we get into March and things look utterly hopeless and irreversible but i really don't like promoted managers being sacked in their first season in the league above.

Would go along with that, but things could look very different after tonight and the next three league games both for the better or a lot worse. 

After half a season back in the top flight, the thought of going straight back down into the Championship and the inevitable asset stripping that would follow is a really unappealing one to be honest, so there may be some itchy fingers should the prospect of relegation become a distinct possibility in the new year.

I do think Dean Smith hasn't had the easiest of jobs this season.  We didn't come up from the Championship with the spine of a successful side and he's had to start from scratch with practically a new team. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on December 17, 2019, 03:02:14 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 17, 2019, 11:24:34 AM
Quote from: Allan C on December 17, 2019, 11:21:38 AM
Quote from: brontebilly on December 16, 2019, 03:18:49 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on December 16, 2019, 02:44:14 PM
It's not because he's a Villa fan. It's because he's been here barely a year,  worked one miracle already and we've had a few bad performances against better teams than us. If you want him sacked after that, good luck persuading any decent manager that joining the Villa would be anything other than disastrous for his career.

Villa Park has been a career ender for many a promising or decent manager for nigh on 30 years. Yet they still come, why is that?
Interesting comment. Name them then?? The “promising or decent” managers in the last 30 years who’s career was ended by coming to Villa??

Lambert
Gregory
O'Leary
Di Matteo


Gregory joined us from Wycombe, did a decent job for a while then moved on to Derby and QPR so we hardly ended his career. His stock was higher after leaving us than it was prior to joining us. Lambert has never been short of work basically just down to the fact he never relegated us. O'Leary did okay enough with us for his reputation not to be hit too badly and Di Matteo wasn't with us long enough for people to form much of an opinion.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on December 17, 2019, 04:01:45 PM
Quote from: Damo70 on December 17, 2019, 03:02:14 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 17, 2019, 11:24:34 AM
Quote from: Allan C on December 17, 2019, 11:21:38 AM
Quote from: brontebilly on December 16, 2019, 03:18:49 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on December 16, 2019, 02:44:14 PM
It's not because he's a Villa fan. It's because he's been here barely a year,  worked one miracle already and we've had a few bad performances against better teams than us. If you want him sacked after that, good luck persuading any decent manager that joining the Villa would be anything other than disastrous for his career.

Villa Park has been a career ender for many a promising or decent manager for nigh on 30 years. Yet they still come, why is that?
Interesting comment. Name them then?? The “promising or decent” managers in the last 30 years who’s career was ended by coming to Villa??

Lambert
Gregory
O'Leary
Di Matteo


Gregory joined us from Wycombe, did a decent job for a while then moved on to Derby and QPR so we hardly ended his career. His stock was higher after leaving us than it was prior to joining us. Lambert has never been short of work basically just down to the fact he never relegated us. O'Leary did okay enough with us for his reputation not to be hit too badly and Di Matteo wasn't with us long enough for people to form much of an opinion.

O'Leary's continued unemployment is everything to do with David O'Leary and nothing to do with Aston Villa.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Simon Page on December 17, 2019, 04:30:14 PM
I think only Mercer and Docherty have won major honours after leaving us. It's not so much we're a graveyard, more there are precious few clubs where you can achieve more, especially given we have almost exclusively stuck to British managers who don't tend to get things like the Madrid gig. We are, more often than not, the biggest job of a manager's career.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Allan C on December 17, 2019, 05:02:58 PM
Quote from: Clampy on December 17, 2019, 01:22:33 PM
You can throw Remi Garde in there as well.
The only one in my opinion. Circumstances at that time made his lot impossible.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on December 17, 2019, 05:08:22 PM
Although he still could have done better. Well, he couldn't have done a lot worse.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: wince on December 17, 2019, 05:20:49 PM
Dare I say tactics Tim? My views on dean is that our owners might not be as patient if their investment is threatened by relegation. He has a lot to learn and a lot to prove as it is either win or lose and these poor runs of form are worrying. However I do think we came up too soon with a squad of individuals. In that respect it reminds me of the lambert young and hungry days. Stay up we won’t be on the relegation scrap next year.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on December 17, 2019, 05:40:19 PM
I think both Sherwood and O'Learly in particular were heavily tainted by their time with us.  O'Leary was pretty highly regarded before joining but got massively found out.

I think saying we've ben a graveyard for managers is a pretty reasonable call.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: N'ZMAV on December 17, 2019, 06:00:14 PM
we do like to ruin a decent manager, oh and strikers too - we've ruined a few of those.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 17, 2019, 06:16:20 PM
Or it could be we have recruited some awful managers and players.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: N'ZMAV on December 17, 2019, 06:44:03 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 17, 2019, 06:16:20 PM
Or it could be we have recruited some awful managers and players.

that too
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on December 17, 2019, 06:55:19 PM
And had some awful owners.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nii Lamptey on December 17, 2019, 07:21:17 PM
Quote from: N'ZMAV on December 17, 2019, 06:00:14 PM
we do like to ruin a decent manager, oh and strikers too - we've ruined a few of those.

We've also made a few..... John Carew, Dwight Yorke and Christian Benteke to start. In Benteke's case, the grass is certainly NOT greener on the other side!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on December 17, 2019, 08:51:28 PM
Quote from: Nii Lamptey on December 17, 2019, 07:21:17 PM
Quote from: N'ZMAV on December 17, 2019, 06:00:14 PM
we do like to ruin a decent manager, oh and strikers too - we've ruined a few of those.

We've also made a few..... John Carew, Dwight Yorke and Christian Benteke to start. In Benteke's case, the grass is certainly NOT greener on the other side!

I don't think we can claim to have made John Carew.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: DB on December 17, 2019, 09:22:15 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on December 17, 2019, 05:40:19 PM
I think both Sherwood and O'Learly in particular were heavily tainted by their time with us.  O'Leary was pretty highly regarded before joining but got massively found out.

I think saying we've ben a graveyard for managers is a pretty reasonable call.

We were f**king tainted by them more like. Chancers
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Somniloquism on December 18, 2019, 03:04:38 PM
I suspect it has been mentioned already but Dean's problem, and the same with some of those other managers mentioned in recent pages, is that they initially found a tactic that worked well, then other managers adapted to nullify it and we had nothing else. Sometimes due to the players one tactic can't be nullified easily ('The Mighty Reds YNWA' at the moment, Citeh recent years) and sometimes the tactics can only be used because of certain better players can only be effective in that system (us at the moment trying to get Grealish in the best role).

I would love Smith to actually try different tactics and he definitely needs to look at changes in second halves to nullify the opposition changes and show he can adapt and learn.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 19, 2019, 07:07:30 PM
The thing we lack all over the pitch is pace.  If you've got pace, then it makes it harder to nullify players.  Our midfield options in Hourihane, McGinn, Luiz and Nakamba are all quite one paced.  Neither El Ghazi or Trezeguet are especially quick for wide players, and Wes is just slow, as is Targett, woefully so.  Jack is quick enough when he gets space in front of him, and his skill massively helps as well.  Guilbert appears to be the quickest player we have I reckon, but is right back.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 19, 2019, 07:37:18 PM
Yep pace is a real issue.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 19, 2019, 07:38:52 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on December 19, 2019, 07:37:18 PM
Yep pace is a real issue.
Agree
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on December 19, 2019, 07:48:00 PM
the two two main problems i have ( and there is a lot of positives as well)

1- we sit back to much which is exactly the thing we were told Smith doesn’t do

so many times we get ourselves into a good position then sit back and invite pressure back onto us
We are also very sloppy when we come out just after half time, just when you hope Smith is giving it the full monty and they will come out fired up and focused they come out all powder puff
Pisses me right off

2- the front players we have Wesley, Trez, El Ghazi, Kodjia,Davis, Jota are collectively not firing
if we go down this will be why
Even teams around or below us have someone getting goals
Norwich - Puki  Brighton - Maupay  Southampton- Ings  we have no one yet

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 19, 2019, 07:50:35 PM
Giving away goals in the second half will be a major reason if we go down.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chris Smith on December 19, 2019, 10:03:52 PM
Quote from: john e on December 19, 2019, 07:48:00 PM
the two two main problems i have ( and there is a lot of positives as well)

1- we sit back to much which is exactly the thing we were told Smith doesn’t do

so many times we get ourselves into a good position then sit back and invite pressure back onto us
We are also very sloppy when we come out just after half time, just when you hope Smith is giving it the full monty and they will come out fired up and focused they come out all powder puff
Pisses me right off

2- the front players we have Wesley, Trez, El Ghazi, Kodjia,Davis, Jota are collectively not firing
if we go down this will be why
Even teams around or below us have someone getting goals
Norwich - Puki  Brighton - Maupay  Southampton- Ings  we have no one yet



On the second point, we’re the highest scorers in the bottom half of the table. If we go down I think it will be failure to hold on to leads that does for us rather than the amount of goals we score.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on December 20, 2019, 06:13:53 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 19, 2019, 07:50:35 PM
Giving away goals in the second half will be a major reason if we go down.
This is it, not sure if it’s lack of experience or lack of belief or sometimes just bloody bad luck!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: itbrvilla on December 20, 2019, 07:43:03 AM
Quote from: Ian J on December 20, 2019, 06:13:53 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 19, 2019, 07:50:35 PM
Giving away goals in the second half will be a major reason if we go down.
This is it, not sure if it’s lack of experience or lack of belief or sometimes just bloody bad luck!
Absolutely, the amount of points we've lost in the last 10-15 minutes has been ridiculous.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on December 20, 2019, 12:36:42 PM
I've said all season we lack: fitness, good ball retention and the speed of thought to distribute quickly and accurately from the back to players making runs (Mings is particularly guilty of this).
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on December 20, 2019, 03:53:28 PM
Smith taking full responsibility for the way we played last week and holding his hands up saying the performance and result was his fault.

Bit rare a manager taking responsibility.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Allan C on December 20, 2019, 03:56:06 PM
Quote from: Mister E on December 20, 2019, 12:36:42 PM
I've said all season we lack: fitness, good ball retention and the speed of thought to distribute quickly and accurately from the back to players making runs (Mings is particularly guilty of this).
I totally agree with all of this and Mings isn’t the only one guilty of the latter.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on December 20, 2019, 04:12:33 PM
Quote from: Allan C on December 20, 2019, 03:56:06 PM
Quote from: Mister E on December 20, 2019, 12:36:42 PM
I've said all season we lack: fitness, good ball retention and the speed of thought to distribute quickly and accurately from the back to players making runs (Mings is particularly guilty of this).
I totally agree with all of this and Mings isn’t the only one guilty of the latter.

I think they are still getting used to each other. By now you'd think it would come more naturally, but when teams are pulling us about, moving and closing as quickly as they do in this league, it's harder to know instinctively what your teammates will do.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nev on December 20, 2019, 05:28:03 PM
Fucking hell, I can't remember a manager being as candid as Dean has about last week, whatever happens I admire him for his honesty and hope his courage brings just reward.
Too many managers are cowards, meekly trotting out platitudes with one eye on self preservation.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on December 20, 2019, 05:37:09 PM
I remember us losing to Small Heath in what I think was SGT's first competitive home game as manager in 1987. He slaughtered the players and said they played like a "bunch of schoolgirls".
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 20, 2019, 06:02:30 PM
Where is everyone seeing the press conference? The one on YouTube is a 1m 40sec long. Where's the rest of it?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 20, 2019, 06:24:40 PM
On the AVFC TV bit of the OS.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 20, 2019, 06:27:52 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 20, 2019, 06:24:40 PM
On the AVFC TV bit of the OS.

I've been trying to login to that for the past 20 min and I've had that circly thing suggesting once again you can't connect because at Aston Villa we don't do technology very well.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on December 20, 2019, 06:40:33 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on December 20, 2019, 06:27:52 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 20, 2019, 06:24:40 PM
On the AVFC TV bit of the OS.

I've been trying to login to that for the past 20 min and I've had that circly thing suggesting once again you can't connect because at Aston Villa we don't do technology very well.

The app wasn't having it, but the club had handily that minute sent me an email with a bit more info and a link that worked first time of asking.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 20, 2019, 06:42:02 PM
Is it this one?  Working fine for me.

https://video.avfc.co.uk/video/dm9kJTdDMF9sdGg2emU2MiU3QyUyRnNlY3Rpb24lM0ZzbHVnJTNEaG9tZSU3Q2hvbWUlMkZoZXJvX2Nhcm91c2Vs?lang=en
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 20, 2019, 06:44:45 PM
Hasn't let me sign up to it. Keeps telling me registration has failed.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave shelley on December 20, 2019, 06:46:10 PM
Me neither.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on December 20, 2019, 06:50:21 PM
Dunno. Signed in with my normal avfc official site email/password combination, got straight in.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on December 20, 2019, 06:52:39 PM
Same.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 20, 2019, 06:56:31 PM
I'll try in a bit. Maybe just some technical bugs.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on December 21, 2019, 11:38:27 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on December 16, 2019, 04:15:21 PM
If you really think we could bring in someone like Pochettino now, I've got a bridge you can buy.

This post hasn't aged well.

Carlo Ancelotti: Everton appoint Italian as manager on four-and-a-half-year deal - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50739844
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 21, 2019, 12:01:36 PM
Everton actually did try for Poch but he quickly rejected them.

Ancelotti I think is a little past his best and not the right fit for club like Everton at this stage. Still way more exciting than when we went for our own geriatric big name in Houllier.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Pete3206 on December 21, 2019, 01:17:45 PM
For a club like Everton, Ancelotti is a great appointment
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TonyD on December 21, 2019, 01:29:03 PM
Quote from: Pete3206 on December 21, 2019, 01:17:45 PM
For a club like Everton, Ancelotti is a great appointment
I think he’ll steady the ship or crash n burn.  I don’t see him winning anything.  He normally joins well set up clubs to do that. 

As for Poch joining us, if presented with the right offer and guarantees, then it’s is not impossible. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 21, 2019, 01:34:08 PM
Quote from: Pete3206 on December 21, 2019, 01:17:45 PM
For a club like Everton, Ancelotti is a great appointment
We will see, it’s much more exciting than bringing reptile features back.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on December 21, 2019, 01:35:02 PM
Quote from: TonyD on December 21, 2019, 01:29:03 PM
Quote from: Pete3206 on December 21, 2019, 01:17:45 PM
For a club like Everton, Ancelotti is a great appointment
I think he’ll steady the ship or crash n burn.  I don’t see him winning anything.  He normally joins well set up clubs to do that. 

As for Poch joining us, if presented with the right offer and guarantees, then it’s is not impossible. 

so you think he will do ok or he'll do bad
sticking your neck out there bud
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TonyD on December 21, 2019, 01:45:19 PM
I’m saying he normally wins trophies but I don’t expect him to do that at Everton. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on December 21, 2019, 03:32:00 PM
Sack him. I'm done.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on December 21, 2019, 03:33:23 PM
Agree. New face with some money to spend in January please or we're toast.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on December 21, 2019, 03:41:34 PM
A limited Championship manager is taking us back there - I didn't buy into " he is one of us shit" and am not surprised he is struggling
Owners need to act fast .......
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on December 21, 2019, 03:48:28 PM
time's nearly up Dean,  lose today and on Boxing Day and your Villa dream is over.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 21, 2019, 04:04:35 PM
He can piss off, really don’t care any more.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 21, 2019, 04:05:07 PM
Purslow had a face like thunder at half time.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 21, 2019, 04:05:26 PM
He’s learned absolutely nothing across the season and it’s getting worse very quickly. Even teams like Norwich who we battered have found ways to change tactics and go to places like Leicester and get a point, and are winning against Wolves. A team we looked horrific against. The LC is a fucking smokescreen. We’ve been massively lucky with the draws we’ve got. Lower league opponents, a tired Wolves team and a Liverpool U9’s. It’s simply not good enough at all. He’s being found to be the Championship level manager that he is.

We all want and wanted him to succeed and give him time to learn the game at this level. But not at the expense of our PL status. We cannot afford to go down. We simply have to cut and change the manager soon. Villa fan or not. I will thank him wholeheartedly for his love of the club and getting us up, but as a Villa fan I hope in time he gets why we did what is best for the club.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 21, 2019, 04:11:06 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 21, 2019, 04:05:07 PM
Purslow had a face like thunder at half time.

Purslow won’t want relegation on his resume. And it will fuck up all of the commercial deals he’s working on behind the scenes for next season
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on December 21, 2019, 04:12:18 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 21, 2019, 04:05:07 PM
Purslow had a face like thunder at half time.

Can only imagine what he looks like now at 3-0 down after no half time changes. Hope he fucks Dean out. Smith really has no excuses and no defence for this shambles.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 21, 2019, 04:13:27 PM
Ultimately Dean is having his annual 10 match winless run. Let's face it if we don't beat Norwich we're probably going to not win for that length.

You can get away with it at championship or league one level.

At prem level you'll get very close to being relegated.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 21, 2019, 04:17:20 PM
I like Dean but making no changes at HT really doesn't reflect well on him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on December 21, 2019, 04:18:51 PM
We don't really know too much about our owners and even Purslow to an extent. I suspect after today we are going to find out how ruthless they are or otherwise. I am a great believer that if you are going to change your manager during the season it should be in time for the new guy to be able to use the transfer window.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Demitri_C on December 21, 2019, 04:19:37 PM
How the hell can yoh give him a new contracy when we were in average form??

What a idotoc decison that has been and now wilm cost the club double the compensation once we get rid of him.

There is no way he will stay on much longer with garbage like this
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 21, 2019, 04:22:59 PM
It will almost certainly make zero difference to the compensation if he's sacked.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on December 21, 2019, 04:24:23 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on December 21, 2019, 04:22:59 PM
It will almost certainly make zero difference to the compensation if he's sacked.

Correct. Sure look at MON, he walked at the worst possible time leaving us in total disarray and then successfully sued us for compensation.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 21, 2019, 04:25:52 PM
We don’t know the terms of his new contract or the termination clauses. It could be structured in a number of different ways based on performance. But ultimately the cost of terminating is irrelevant when compared to all of the costs and player sales associated with relegation. It doesn’t bare thinking about.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: gpbarr on December 21, 2019, 04:35:48 PM
Will develop into a great manager but he is being found at with his inexperience and naivety right now and has to go if the owners want to protect their investment. I really wanted it to work - a Villa boy and all that - but it’s failing big time and every game without action is a game closer to doom
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: baddowvillans on December 21, 2019, 04:40:11 PM
The Manager and players at Norwich and Watford won't find it hard to motivate their players for the next two games. I wish I could say our manager will have our players motivated and ready for them plus a plan A, B and C dependent how the game develops but don't have it in me.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villadelph on December 21, 2019, 04:47:33 PM
Quote from: baddowvillans on December 21, 2019, 04:40:11 PM
The Manager and players at Norwich and Watford won't find it hard to motivate their players for the next two games. I wish I could say our manager will have our players motivated and ready for them plus a plan A, B and C dependent how the game develops but don't have it in me.

We are terrible coming out of HT. One of a managers most important jobs.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 21, 2019, 04:47:35 PM
Quote from: baddowvillans on December 21, 2019, 04:40:11 PM
The Manager and players at Norwich and Watford won't find it hard to motivate their players for the next two games. I wish I could say our manager will have our players motivated and ready for them plus a plan A, B and C dependent how the game develops but don't have it in me.

I'm still not worried about those teams. One is 6 points behind us and Norwich are as bad as we are defensively if not worse.

Danger is though we're going to nicely settle ourselves into 18th. Southampton 3 points above us and all the teams above are picking up points so there dosen't seem an obvious team to catch.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on December 21, 2019, 04:49:39 PM
Yeah this game is as genuine a 6 pointer as they come. I feel like whatever we do from here (and I do think we'll finished above watford and norwich) this game has relegated us.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on December 21, 2019, 04:51:33 PM
One glimmer of hope is that Soton's away form is better than their home form so we could even it up but I don't see it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aev on December 21, 2019, 04:52:04 PM
I'd get rid.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on December 21, 2019, 04:52:33 PM
Going back down does not bear thinking about.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 21, 2019, 04:52:37 PM
Almost 42k people have watched this abomination. Almost all of them fans of Dean Smith. Almost all will be concerned that one of our own doesn’t have it at their level.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Monty on December 21, 2019, 04:53:51 PM
This happens to be the worst possible time to change head coach as well, in the middle of a cluster of Christmas games against our relegation rivals. What a terrible time to hit form like this.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on December 21, 2019, 04:56:22 PM
And yet the signs were there throughout our run against top 6 teams.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on December 21, 2019, 04:56:59 PM
Farewell Deano.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 21, 2019, 04:57:13 PM
Quote from: Monty on December 21, 2019, 04:53:51 PM
This happens to be the worst possible time to change head coach as well, in the middle of a cluster of Christmas games against our relegation rivals. What a terrible time to hit form like this.

He'll get the next three games I'm sure and probably the cup at Fulham. After that we'll have to change things I suspect.

Still not too late as we waited under late Feb to sack Lambert and still stayed up comfortably in the end. Sunderland also used to sack managers in March and still stop up.

All very disappointing how it's fizzling out, it really didn't have to be like us.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Uknowthescore on December 21, 2019, 04:57:23 PM
I like dean smith I think most people do but think the premier league is above his level I’m afraid.  4 points from the next 2 games or he’s got to go
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on December 21, 2019, 04:57:31 PM
Quote from: Monty on December 21, 2019, 04:53:51 PM
This happens to be the worst possible time to change head coach as well, in the middle of a cluster of Christmas games against our relegation rivals. What a terrible time to hit form like this.
It's far from ideal but the other side of the coin is that a new manager bounce might see us pick up a couple of wins.  Under Dean there are lots of points to be missed out on.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on December 21, 2019, 04:58:38 PM
I have no faith in dean. I’d rather a caretaker for the next few games. He looks clueless and the players look terrified
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy65 on December 21, 2019, 04:59:42 PM
Quote from: themossman on December 21, 2019, 04:56:22 PM
And yet the signs were there throughout our run against top 6 teams.

Were they, Man U aside?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nii Lamptey on December 21, 2019, 05:00:06 PM
Fuck sentiment. SMITH OUT!
Don’t give him more time..... the next 2 games especially are VITAL. We’ll be cut loose from the pack if Smith is still in charge for those.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Joe S on December 21, 2019, 05:00:53 PM
Quote from: themossman on December 21, 2019, 04:58:38 PM
I have no faith in dean. I’d rather a caretaker for the next few games. He looks clueless and the players look terrified

I think I agree
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on December 21, 2019, 05:01:04 PM
What I don't get is how tired and lethargic we look.

We have zero movement, are utterly without pace (esp in the middle) and entirely predictable in our attempts to move the ball forward.

Kodjia worked harder in 10 minutes today than Wesley has in the last 10 matches, yet we'll see again next week, a starting front three of Jack, Wesley and El Ghazi.

Getting stuff wrong is not the end of the world, everyone does it in all walks of life.

The problem is when you keep making the same mistake over and over.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 21, 2019, 05:01:15 PM
Time’s up. Utterly clueless and out of his depth.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 21, 2019, 05:02:24 PM
His stubbornness is going to cost him his job if he's not careful.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Joe S on December 21, 2019, 05:03:26 PM
Telling everyone else anywhere near us in the league has undergone continual talk of management changes, yet us. I like the loyalty shown from above but I do feel it's shortsighted. He is not a Premier League manager. I feared this in August but hoped for the best...seems we all did.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TonyD on December 21, 2019, 05:04:55 PM
As previously said I think the players are just as frustrated with his bollocks as we are.
So sack him tonight and let them pick the team on Boxing Day.  Couldn’t do any worse.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: David_Nab on December 21, 2019, 05:07:17 PM
Not called for him to go at all but after today I am starting to think he may have too , its not just the losing its the manor of defeats. Soton just copied Leicester , played 2 up top and we couldnt deal with the movement , we have little width and constantly seemed out manned wide yet we we attack with Grealish wide the opposition have 2-3 men near him.
 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: DB on December 21, 2019, 05:09:03 PM
Out of his depth?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Monty on December 21, 2019, 05:09:18 PM
The fact is we've been worked out. This level is all about game preparation, coming up with plans for the opposition, anticipating what they'll try to do, having contingencies in place, and doing this differently for every opponent. We do the same thing the same way every single week. We must be so easy to prepare for, and we never seem to prepare for anyone else. It's just not adequate.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Jon Crofts on December 21, 2019, 05:10:06 PM
Owners need to act fast. Smith is cooked.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: curiousorange on December 21, 2019, 05:11:38 PM
Who next? The fact I can only think of Allardyce is pretty depressing.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on December 21, 2019, 05:12:07 PM
is stubbornness, inflexibility and an inability to do anything resembling in game tactics a problem unique to Villa managers? It seems to me that we have the same groundhog day discussion on every manager we appoint. At the moment it's a question of when, not if, Dean goes.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villadelph on December 21, 2019, 05:12:19 PM
Quote from: David_Nab on December 21, 2019, 05:07:17 PM
Not called for him to go at all but after today I am starting to think he may have too , its not just the losing its the manor of defeats. Soton just copied Leicester , played 2 up top and we couldnt deal with the movement , we have little width and constantly seemed out manned wide yet we we attack with Grealish wide the opposition have 2-3 men near him.

You cannot play a midfield three who don't have any pace between them and expect jack and el ghazi to get back and defend. It's insane.

Jack's out of position, connor's on the left, john's on the right, luiz is a bit lethargic.. what the hell are we doing. Saints sucked all the air out of the middle of the park and we couldn't even get into their third, let alone feed our donkey.

It's just blatant stubbornness. Kodjia came on and made a fool of our management.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on December 21, 2019, 05:12:48 PM
Quote from: Monty on December 21, 2019, 05:09:18 PM
The fact is we've been worked out. This level is all about game preparation, coming up with plans for the opposition, anticipating what they'll try to do, having contingencies in place, and doing this differently for every opponent. We do the same thing the same way every single week. We must be so easy to prepare for, and we never seem to prepare for anyone else. It's just not adequate.
Exactly.  Having one killer system in the Championship is one thing, but in the Premier League adaptability and versatility is crucial.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on December 21, 2019, 05:16:00 PM
If he goes we have to think big.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Joe S on December 21, 2019, 05:16:12 PM
Quote from: curiousorange on December 21, 2019, 05:11:38 PM
Who next? The fact I can only think of Allardyce is pretty depressing.

If it kept us up who'd argue?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nii Lamptey on December 21, 2019, 05:16:40 PM
As silly as it sounds, how about trying for Poch? No matter our recent plight, we’re still potentially a massive club if steered in the right direction. He turned Spurs into a strong top 4 team, and did well at Saints before that. If we could lure him here, he'd have more cash than Levy was willing to hand out, and the team might actually last 90 minutes!
I’ll wake up in a minute!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on December 21, 2019, 05:18:34 PM
Quote from: curiousorange on December 21, 2019, 05:11:38 PM
Who next? The fact I can only think of Allardyce is pretty depressing.

Benitez would come if we acted now I think.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on December 21, 2019, 05:21:07 PM
Quote from: Nii Lamptey on December 21, 2019, 05:16:40 PM
As silly as it sounds, how about trying for Poch? No matter our recent plight, we’re still potentially a massive club if steered in the right direction. He turned Spurs into a strong top 4 team, and did well at Saints before that. If we could lure him here, he'd have more cash than Levy was willing to hand out, and the team might actually last 90 minutes!
I’ll wake up in a minute!

Sources "close to Poch" say he'd only come back to the PL to manage City. It would make my decade if we got him, but we haven't a hope mate.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nii Lamptey on December 21, 2019, 05:22:20 PM
That’s the caliber we should be aiming for - Benitez/Poch. Anything less and we’ll be back in this position in 12 months time.
Benitez would be a good shout actually 👍🏼
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on December 21, 2019, 05:23:01 PM
Quote from: DB on December 21, 2019, 05:09:03 PM
Out of his depth?

The dreaded vote of confidence isn't far off. Fighting for his job now. Getting hammered at home against Southampton. It's back to the Remi Garde days.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 21, 2019, 05:23:08 PM
He continued to play Mings while hurt and now he’s out. He continued to shovel work onto SJM’s plate and now he’s fucked. Yet today’s defeat will be because McGinn got hurt.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on December 21, 2019, 05:24:00 PM
Benitez seems the most gettable premium/clear upgrade option. He seems to go where the transfer budget is biggest and has scores to settle with one of our rivals so the ingredients are there.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nii Lamptey on December 21, 2019, 05:24:00 PM
But before we start filling that dugout, we need the board to grow a pair and do what must be done..... and Terry needs to go too. Fucking useless, judging by our defensive frailties.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villadelph on December 21, 2019, 05:24:09 PM
Does Niko Kovac speak english?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mike on December 21, 2019, 05:25:42 PM
I’m really disappointed. I didn’t see this happening. I’m scratching my head a bit about this new contract. It was always crazy to go in with so little premier league experience in a virtually new team.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on December 21, 2019, 05:26:43 PM
Last 3 games were like 2015/16. we looked beat as soon as we conceeded.

We are a beautiful team to play against.

Absolute legend for getting us up last season, I fear the longer he stays with us the more that reputation will dwindle unfortunately.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on December 21, 2019, 05:27:00 PM
Yeah terry has done well to avoid criticism. Defensively we don’t look like we’ve been coached whatsoever.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AVH87 on December 21, 2019, 05:27:42 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on December 21, 2019, 05:18:34 PM
Quote from: curiousorange on December 21, 2019, 05:11:38 PM
Who next? The fact I can only think of Allardyce is pretty depressing.

Benitez would come if we acted now I think.

Not sure about that, when on MNF a couple of weeks ago he said no chance of a PL return at the moment.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on December 21, 2019, 05:28:24 PM
Quote from: Nii Lamptey on December 21, 2019, 05:24:00 PM
But before we start filling that dugout, we need the board to grow a pair and do what must be done..... and Terry needs to go too. Fucking useless, judging by our defensive frailties.

Midfield remains the problem area for me. We keep changing the three in there and we get worse by the week. No pace or presence in any of them. Just a hide and seek show when our defenders get the ball. Targett is utterly useless too, as is Trez as is Wes.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on December 21, 2019, 05:29:18 PM
Those decent performances against top sides (for bugger all points mind you) are starting to look like plucky cup performances by a league 2 side having an amazing day out in Manchester/London.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 21, 2019, 05:29:47 PM
I’d take Benitez in a heartbeat
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nii Lamptey on December 21, 2019, 05:31:22 PM
Quote from: AVH87 on December 21, 2019, 05:27:42 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on December 21, 2019, 05:18:34 PM
Quote from: curiousorange on December 21, 2019, 05:11:38 PM
Who next? The fact I can only think of Allardyce is pretty depressing.

Benitez would come if we acted now I think.

Not sure about that, when on MNF a couple of weeks ago he said no chance of a PL return at the moment.

We’re probably the pick of the PL clubs that could entice him over. Money talks. If Villa came calling, I think he’d jump.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Stu on December 21, 2019, 05:33:20 PM
Quote from: mr underhill on December 21, 2019, 05:16:00 PM
If he goes we have to think big.

A friend of mine is always on about Pochettino but I'm trying my best to convince her this is not going to happen. Can anyone imagine we would be the next step in his career? A load of average players, and no money to spend.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AVH87 on December 21, 2019, 05:34:58 PM
Quote from: Nii Lamptey on December 21, 2019, 05:31:22 PM
Quote from: AVH87 on December 21, 2019, 05:27:42 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on December 21, 2019, 05:18:34 PM
Quote from: curiousorange on December 21, 2019, 05:11:38 PM
Who next? The fact I can only think of Allardyce is pretty depressing.

Benitez would come if we acted now I think.

Not sure about that, when on MNF a couple of weeks ago he said no chance of a PL return at the moment.

We’re probably the pick of the PL clubs that could entice him over. Money talks. If Villa came calling, I think he’d jump.

Money talks but he'd also want a solid budget for Jan, and reports are where are in the loan market due to sailing close to the wind with FFP after the c.£120m summer spend.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 21, 2019, 05:38:29 PM
Quote from: Stu on December 21, 2019, 05:33:20 PM
Quote from: mr underhill on December 21, 2019, 05:16:00 PM
If he goes we have to think big.

A friend of mine is always on about Pochettino but I'm trying my best to convince her this is not going to happen. Can anyone imagine we would be the next step in his career? A load of average players, and no money to spend.

Absolutely no chance in my opinion unless we make a mind boggling offer. He’s a young aspiring CL level manager now. He will have a number of offers later this season and certainly at big sides in the summer. We need to find the next Pochettino or someone much more experienced with a solid international reputation to help stabilize us and for player recruitment. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: rougegorge on December 21, 2019, 05:43:21 PM
The last four games have shown that he is not the manager people hoped he was.
Chelsea poor, Leicester worse, Sheffield United worse, today even worse.

Nearly all the players he signed are now looking out of their depth and he does too.

Everton changed in time, and we need to change if we are going to have any chance of staying up.

Bruce got so much stick for his brand of football, but he's doing a whole lot better than Smith.  I certainly don't like Smithball this season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nii Lamptey on December 21, 2019, 05:45:03 PM
IMO, if we’re going to spend money, it needs to be on the manager. The rest will follow. Both Poch and Benitez have worked under tight spending restrictions, but they’d know that it would only be short term at Villa.
If we gamble on an ‘up and coming’ manager or go for an ‘Allardyce’, we’ll be back here next year.
Need to start with that solid foundation.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 21, 2019, 05:53:32 PM
There's plenty of good managers out there.

I actually rate Ralph Hasselhuttl a lot. Did very good work in Germany at Ingolstadt and Leipzig and I was very surprised when Southampton tempted him mid season. He hasn't quite made the impact at Saints I thought he would but that probably shows their decline over the last few seasons compared to what they were like under Poch and Koeman.

If Dean is let go I'd approach Howe and Dyche and see what they're thinking. Ultimately the club is miles and miles away from european contention so the short term goal is to keep the club up and build gradually from there.

Both have demonstrated they can do that with their eyes closed at their present clubs and arguably  they've both taken those two as far as they can. Don't know if either would walk out mid season though.

I get the feeling with Suso we'd look at the Spanish market and who's out of work. I read the other week Marcelinho was interviewed for Everton job and briefly linked to Arsenal. Guy has managed Villareal and Valencia into the CL in last 6 years and also beat Barca in the cup final last year so similar type of record to Nuno.

He's the sort I'd expect us to target. I wouldn't be that against Javi Gracia either. Disappointing start to the season but overall he did well in his 18 months at Watford.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Joe S on December 21, 2019, 05:53:43 PM
Quote from: Nii Lamptey on December 21, 2019, 05:45:03 PM
IMO, if we’re going to spend money, it needs to be on the manager. The rest will follow. Both Poch and Benitez have worked under tight spending restrictions, but they’d know that it would only be short term at Villa.
If we gamble on an ‘up and coming’ manager or go for an ‘Allardyce’, we’ll be back here next year.
Need to start with that solid foundation.

I can see your point, but if you don't then this time next year it's Millwall away?

Benitez or Porch is absolute fantasy, that is not going to happen.

I want to stay up...
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: London Villan on December 21, 2019, 05:55:36 PM
The only change to his tactics this season has been to shift Jack. That stopped working a few games ago. I hope he has it in himself to come up with another way of setting up the team. If he doesn’t he’ll be gone after Watford.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 21, 2019, 05:58:58 PM
Another outsider to me would be Gerrard. I know he signed a new deal at Rangers only last week but he'd seriously consider it I reckon.

Imagine that, Gerrard and Terry our managerial duo. I might actually get a ticket for a Saturday game with the mass boycott we'd then have!

Even though I'm saying all this I still don't want Dean to be sacked but its starting to feel inevitable with how badly we're losing games now and getting key players injured. Hope he can get us going again in next few weeks but I'm not that confident. Seen this season play out before under Lambert.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 21, 2019, 05:59:59 PM
We’ve stopped losing games by the odd goal. We’re getting battered now. Time is up when that happens.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on December 21, 2019, 06:01:04 PM
Quote from: London Villan on December 21, 2019, 05:55:36 PM
The only change to his tactics this season has been to shift Jack. That stopped working a few games ago. I hope he has it in himself to come up with another way of setting up the team. If he doesn’t he’ll be gone after Watford.

Yeah, was clear a few games back, post Old Trafford that teams have figured out that Grealish on the left can become peripheral and frustrated quickly. Yet Smith hasn't changed shape since.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ez on December 21, 2019, 06:13:37 PM
I can't see Dean being trusted with anymore money which effectively means we're screwed. I just cant see any scenario where keeping him will keep us up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on December 21, 2019, 06:18:17 PM
Quote from: ez on December 21, 2019, 06:13:37 PM
I can't see Dean being trusted with anymore money which effectively means we're screwed. I just cant see any scenario where keeping him will keep us up.
If they don't trust him with money they might as well fire him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on December 21, 2019, 06:20:25 PM
Sadly dean is being made to look thick by the calibre of manage he is now up against. The extent to which he fails to adapt is laughable. Any opposition can plan to neutralise us with pinpoint accuracy knowing his formation and selections are going to be the same every game.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nii Lamptey on December 21, 2019, 06:23:04 PM
God no! Anyone but Gerrard!
The Chelsea/Terry love in is bad enough.... Gerrard and Liverpool would be insufferable! 🤢
Geez, I’d take Allardyce over him!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 21, 2019, 06:28:29 PM
Quote from: Nii Lamptey on December 21, 2019, 06:23:04 PM
God no! Anyone but Gerrard!
The Chelsea/Terry love in is bad enough.... Gerrard and Liverpool would be insufferable! 🤢
Geez, I’d take Allardyce over him!
They don’t like each other.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on December 21, 2019, 06:30:21 PM
No to Allardyce or Dyche.  Their brand of football will have us pissing our pants. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: David_Nab on December 21, 2019, 06:44:06 PM
Quote from: Newby on December 21, 2019, 06:30:21 PM
No to Allardyce or Dyche.  Their brand of football will have us pissing our pants. 

I think Dyche plays a pragmatic style based on having pretty limited resources ,keeping Burnley safe every season is a minor miracle considering he a first choice midfield that include Ashley Westwood !

But regardless. in terms of brand of football its not like we are playing some great stuff is it .We are playing with an old school type Target man who we are trying to hit the ball early too and play off.Engels and Hause were hitting long hopeless balls all match
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kipeye on December 21, 2019, 06:44:59 PM
Please stick by the man who got us here a little longer.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: levico on December 21, 2019, 06:48:31 PM
Quote from: kipeye on December 21, 2019, 06:44:59 PM
Please stick by the man who got us here a little longer.

Tempting but he’s in the process of arranging the return journey, so no thanks.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Flin5tone on December 21, 2019, 06:50:59 PM
Same old story at Villa, this reminds me very much of the Lambert appointment, someone the fans all wanted who is way out of his depth.

The football is shit yet people turn there noses up at Dyche,Big Sam etc that's the level we're at , i've not seen any good football this season anyway the odd 15 mins

he isn't good enough,the players look lost and his decisions are shocking, we needed 442 today


4 more years of this SHIT
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KevinGage on December 21, 2019, 06:51:50 PM
This is a test - the second biggest test of Deano's Villa stint- and a big part of me feels we just have to ride it out.

But performances have been dire for the best part of a month, and the way we casually tossed away points from promising positions earlier in the season is starting to bite.

Norwich Sheff Utd etc go down (and Sheff Utd won't even be involved, by the looks of it) and it could be spun as a minor setback in the bigger overall plan.  I'm pretty sure they'd keep their managers in that situation.

With what we've invested in the summer, I don't think our owners are looking at it that way. All our business was looked to be with a view to staying up -and staying up with a degree of comfort. If that is under threat, he's toast.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT on December 21, 2019, 06:52:05 PM
Quote from: kipeye on December 21, 2019, 06:44:59 PM
Please stick by the man who got us here a little longer.

I'd agree. I just think with the direction we seem to be heading, the owners won't go beyond another three games if this carries on.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: rougegorge on December 21, 2019, 07:02:08 PM
Quote from: levico on December 21, 2019, 06:48:31 PM
Quote from: kipeye on December 21, 2019, 06:44:59 PM
Please stick by the man who got us here a little longer.

Tempting but he’s in the process of arranging the return journey, so no thanks.
We can't afford to go back down. We will lose Grealish, Mings , McGinn etc and we will have to start all over again and who knows what our finances will be like. The idea of letting Smith run a project or develop the work in progress doesn't hold water in this league. Look at the players he has brought in and how they are performing.  We were really poor this time last year, but Grealish rescued us, but asking him to do it on his own at this level is wishful thinking in the extreme.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on December 21, 2019, 07:15:25 PM
The biggest thing for me is the lack of anything that resembles a plan on how to play against different types of teams. Were going our way against every fucker, no matter who they are, very admirable when you're Barca or Liverpool but not when you're us.

Our lack of preperation and antention to detail is killing us, leaving Wolves best striker of the ball free on the edge of our area at a free kick,  playing a high line against Leicesters pacy front two and then preceeding to play the exact same way against Southamptons pacy front two, no pressure to stop crosses against Liverpool Man Utd and Chelsea, its basic stuff and its pissing me off.

He took us on a brilliant adventure last season and arguably got us up a good year ahead of what most of us expected, I just feel he's been massively found out at the moment. I hope for Deans sake and ours that he can adapt.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: David_Nab on December 21, 2019, 07:20:02 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on December 21, 2019, 07:15:25 PM
The biggest thing for me is the lack of anything that resembles a plan on how to play against different types of teams. Were going our way against every fucker, no matter who they are, very admirable when you're Barca or Liverpool but not when you're us.

Our lack of preperation and antention to detail is killing us, leaving Wolves best striker of the ball free on the edge of our area at a free kick,  playing a high line against Leicesters pacy front two and then preceeding to play the exact same way against Southamptons pacy front two, no pressure to stop crosses against Liverpool Man Utd and Chelsea, its basic stuff and its pissing me off.

He took us on a brilliant adventure last season and arguably got us up a good year ahead of what most of us expected, I just feel he's been massively found out at the moment. I hope for Deans sake and ours that he can adapt.

Today he says the 2nd goal was because the marking was wrong as the message on who to mark hadn't got to the players ...this after the Mings fiasco and its all very amateur
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 21, 2019, 07:22:36 PM
He's a decent Championship boss floundering hopelessly out of his depth in a league that is way too big for him.  He can't handle the players or the expectations.  Time to put him out of his misery.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on December 21, 2019, 07:25:21 PM
Taking us up in his first season was dreamland for him. If we change things now he’ll be a legend forever but if he takes us straight back down, it’s tainted. I don’t think it’s necessarily the decent thing to keep backing him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on December 21, 2019, 07:27:05 PM
Quote from: themossman on December 21, 2019, 07:25:21 PM
Taking us up in his first season was dreamland for him. If we change things now he’ll be a legend forever but if he takes us straight back down, it’s tainted. I don’t think it’s necessarily the decent thing to keep backing him.

I think this is were im at at the moment.

But with the new contract I just cant see anything happening.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 21, 2019, 07:29:33 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on December 21, 2019, 07:27:05 PM
Quote from: themossman on December 21, 2019, 07:25:21 PM
Taking us up in his first season was dreamland for him. If we change things now he’ll be a legend forever but if he takes us straight back down, it’s tainted. I don’t think it’s necessarily the decent thing to keep backing him.

I think this is were im at at the moment.

But with the new contract I just cant see anything happening.
The cost of his contract compared t the cost of relegation?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Jon Crofts on December 21, 2019, 07:31:26 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 21, 2019, 07:29:33 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on December 21, 2019, 07:27:05 PM
Quote from: themossman on December 21, 2019, 07:25:21 PM
Taking us up in his first season was dreamland for him. If we change things now he’ll be a legend forever but if he takes us straight back down, it’s tainted. I don’t think it’s necessarily the decent thing to keep backing him.

I think this is were im at at the moment.

But with the new contract I just cant see anything happening.
The cost of his contract compared t the cost of relegation?


There will undoubtedly be break clauses, no way we’d be paying off a 4 year contract term.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: passport1 on December 21, 2019, 07:34:13 PM
Whilst I have never been a Deano believer and thought he would be found out at this level he was a fans favourite appointment just as Lambert was. I think this type of appointment is always a sign of weakness at board level and the worry to me is who will they appoint next.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 21, 2019, 07:41:53 PM
Quote from: themossman on December 21, 2019, 07:25:21 PM
Taking us up in his first season was dreamland for him. If we change things now he’ll be a legend forever but if he takes us straight back down, it’s tainted. I don’t think it’s necessarily the decent thing to keep backing him.

I think this is interesting line of thinking.

Dean leaves in next few weeks, his legacy is ultimately dragging this club back up to where historically it should be. Next manager also gets plenty of games to get the 20 points needed to stay up and build from there.

He stays, we go down and it just wouldn't be the same would it? We're mid table in championship this time next year and there will be Smith out chants from the Holte like there would be for any other manager.

I wouldn't like to see that for what is overall a very decent man.

Even better if we could actually win a game or two and he's the one who keeps us up. You never know I guess.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AVH87 on December 21, 2019, 07:41:57 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 21, 2019, 07:22:36 PM
He's a decent Championship boss floundering hopelessly out of his depth in a league that is way too big for him.  He can't handle the players or the expectations.  Time to put him out of his misery.

I agree Risso - who would you like as replacement?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on December 21, 2019, 07:42:48 PM
Quote from: passport1 on December 21, 2019, 07:34:13 PM
Whilst I have never been a Deano believer and thought he would be found out at this level he was a fans favourite appointment just as Lambert was. I think this type of appointment is always a sign of weakness at board level and the worry to me is who will they appoint next.

Didn't they want Thierry Henry to start with? Smith was a decent appointment at the time but I was never keen on John Terry coming in as part of the backroom team. It reeked of tokenism. An experienced talented coach was what was and still is required. That team is hopelessly put together at the moment.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on December 21, 2019, 07:44:13 PM
He certainly isn't the progressive coach many on here thought/hoped we were getting
He talks a good game and seems a decent fella - but the recent visits to opposition dressing rooms to congratulate / commiserate with the other team / coaches is very commendable and sporting  but not the traits of a ruthless winner - the club faces a huge dilemma now - back or sack
Who is available and what funds will be given in   January to buy a striker and midfield ace with experience of the Premier League ?
It's all turning a bit shit after a great summer and preseason
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 21, 2019, 07:45:45 PM
Quote from: passport1 on December 21, 2019, 07:34:13 PM
Whilst I have never been a Deano believer and thought he would be found out at this level he was a fans favourite appointment just as Lambert was. I think this type of appointment is always a sign of weakness at board level and the worry to me is who will they appoint next.

He's been a much better appointment than Henry would've been.

Regardless of the Villa fan angle his signing made loads of sense to me at the time. Manager who'd worked his way up the league structure playing a defined style of play and improving players on the training ground.

He's not the first or last manager to find aspects of the premier league hard to grasp. No shame in that and to me DS is the sort who'll improve with time at this level.

The problem we have is can we afford to risk another relegation to test that theory?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on December 21, 2019, 07:53:24 PM
I just read WM are saying the players held a meeting - without DS - to discuss our tactics after the Leicester game.

If - if - that’s true, it doesn’t augur well.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nunkin1965 on December 21, 2019, 07:54:27 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on December 21, 2019, 07:44:13 PM
He certainly isn't the progressive coach many on here thought/hoped we were getting
He talks a good game and seems a decent fella - but the recent visits to opposition dressing rooms to congratulate / commiserate with the other team / coaches is very commendable and sporting  but not the traits of a ruthless winner - the club faces a huge dilemma now - back or sack
Who is available and what funds will be given in   January to buy a striker and midfield ace with experience of the Premier League ?
It's all turning a bit shit after a great summer and preseason

Are we in a position to actually sign anybody during the January window?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on December 21, 2019, 07:58:07 PM
Poch: Open to offers (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50878900)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on December 21, 2019, 07:58:59 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on December 21, 2019, 07:53:24 PM
I just read WM are saying the players held a meeting - without DS - to discuss our tactics after the Leicester game.

If - if - that’s true, it doesn’t augur well.

Really? Blimey
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villafirst on December 21, 2019, 07:59:08 PM
Relegation is a very real possibility now. Lose to Norwich on Boxing Day and DS will be under intense pressure. Mainly dreadful today apart from Jack. Wesley is just hopeless. Davis needs to start in front of him as soon as he's fit. Kodjia looked good when he came on.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rico on December 21, 2019, 07:59:46 PM
If they are even considering changing the manager, then do it now. Give the new guy a couple of weeks to assess the squad, then give him what he needs in the January transfer window.

On a personal level I would love Dean to turn this around, but with his insistence on playing 433, I just can't see it happening. Dean, please try something different. We know our striker options are limited, but relying on Wesley is asking for the sack. Why not go 442 and play Kodjia alongside him. Defensively is it too early to bring Chester back? Maybe go 5 at the back? I don't know, but continuing with this current set up is going to end in relegation.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: phantom limb on December 21, 2019, 07:59:51 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on December 21, 2019, 07:53:24 PM
I just read WM are saying the players held a meeting - without DS - to discuss our tactics after the Leicester game.

If - if - that’s true, it doesn’t augur well.

If there’s any truth in this then the writing is on the wall isn’t it?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on December 21, 2019, 08:00:02 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on December 21, 2019, 07:53:24 PM
I just read WM are saying the players held a meeting - without DS - to discuss our tactics after the Leicester game.

If - if - that’s true, it doesn’t augur well.

Jesus wept.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Roysmert on December 21, 2019, 08:03:30 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on December 21, 2019, 05:01:04 PM
What I don't get is how tired and lethargic we look.

We have zero movement, are utterly without pace (esp in the middle) and entirely predictable in our attempts to move the ball forward.

Kodjia worked harder in 10 minutes today than Wesley has in the last 10 matches, yet we'll see again next week, a starting front three of Jack, Wesley and El Ghazi.

Getting stuff wrong is not the end of the world, everyone does it in all walks of life.

The problem is when you keep making the same mistake over and over.

Precisely. We learn nothing, absolutely nothing, from game-to-game. We change nothing, we know no other way. So we keep doing the same thing. Mind bloggling, and like all managers, his pig-headedness will cost him his job.

Thanks for those amazing 13/14 games last season, but Christ Almighty change things rapido or it's bye-bye from the board. Shame, but this is a ruthless league.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 21, 2019, 08:07:24 PM
Quote from: Legion on December 21, 2019, 07:58:07 PM
Poch: Open to offers (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50878900)

Apart from Everton who he quickly dismissed when they approached him two weeks ago. He's not going to come to us. Plenty of other good managers would do.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: malckennedy on December 21, 2019, 08:18:47 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on December 21, 2019, 08:07:24 PM
Quote from: Legion on December 21, 2019, 07:58:07 PM
Poch: Open to offers (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50878900)

Apart from Everton who he quickly dismissed when they approached him two weeks ago. He's not going to come to us. Plenty of other good managers would do.

Maybe the Villa project is more attractive and with better financial backing than Everton?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on December 21, 2019, 08:24:41 PM
Quote from: malckennedy on December 21, 2019, 08:18:47 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on December 21, 2019, 08:07:24 PM
Quote from: Legion on December 21, 2019, 07:58:07 PM
Poch: Open to offers (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50878900)

Apart from Everton who he quickly dismissed when they approached him two weeks ago. He's not going to come to us. Plenty of other good managers would do.

Maybe the Villa project is more attractive and with better financial backing than Everton?
Poch may or may not be interested (probably not) but if Smith does go we really do have to look at bringing in a top quality manager and not an up-and-comer or someone who has won the Finnish league twice in a row or someone who has been number two to a much better manager.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villafirst on December 21, 2019, 08:37:23 PM
Is that 7 defeats in 9 games now? 4 points from 27? The writing is on the wall. Really wanted Deano to succeed but I can't see it happening. We need 2 or 3 experienced loan players in January to try and somehow stay up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VinnieChase84 on December 21, 2019, 08:38:46 PM
Quote from: phantom limb on December 21, 2019, 07:59:51 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on December 21, 2019, 07:53:24 PM
I just read WM are saying the players held a meeting - without DS - to discuss our tactics after the Leicester game.

If - if - that’s true, it doesn’t augur well.

If there’s any truth in this then the writing is on the wall isn’t it?

Tactically, questions around DS has constantly been around him his entire career. Saw some Brentford at new st earlier and they were saying the same. Has no other plan than 433
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 21, 2019, 08:41:22 PM
Every week he says the same thing, we can't keep on giving cheap goals away.  Every week we keep giving cheap goals away.  His formation is all wrong and the players he has bought are poor.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 21, 2019, 08:43:38 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on December 21, 2019, 08:24:41 PM
Quote from: malckennedy on December 21, 2019, 08:18:47 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on December 21, 2019, 08:07:24 PM
Quote from: Legion on December 21, 2019, 07:58:07 PM
Poch: Open to offers (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50878900)

Apart from Everton who he quickly dismissed when they approached him two weeks ago. He's not going to come to us. Plenty of other good managers would do.

Maybe the Villa project is more attractive and with better financial backing than Everton?
Poch may or may not be interested (probably not) but if Smith does go we really do have to look at bringing in a top quality manager and not an up-and-comer or someone who has won the Finnish league twice in a row or someone who has been number two to a much better manager.

If you want to go left field I think this guy would be well worth looking at. Suso certainly would've heard of him:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcelino_Garc%C3%ADa_Toral
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OzVilla on December 21, 2019, 09:00:48 PM
The reality is he has 2 games to save his job.  If he didn’t have the Villa fan credit in the bank I’m not even sure he’d have that as more fans would’ve turned by now.

As for replacements, I’ve absolutely no doubt calls will be being made now in case, just no idea to who.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 21, 2019, 09:12:19 PM
Here is what I hope doesn’t happen. That if he’s going to be fired it’s not a prolonged thins over many weeks where we eek out a draw even a win but the fundamental issues remain. He’s still a Villa fan. He’s still one of us. He still got us up. And I would hope that his reputation as all of those things don’t suffer. For him or his family. Make it quick so he doesn’t start taking proper pelters from the fans. That would be very sad.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on December 21, 2019, 09:18:36 PM
This is my fear to be honest, he deserves to go down in history as the guy that got us back. Im hoping the longer he stays that that doesnt diminish.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on December 21, 2019, 09:22:39 PM
Agreed, now is the time to get rid. Any later and the rot has set in, and the opportunity for a new man to come in with enough time to make a significant signing or two is lost.

But I fully expect they'll let him keep his job until after the Norwich game, by which point we could be effectively dead and buried.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tomd2103 on December 21, 2019, 09:30:38 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on December 21, 2019, 08:43:38 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on December 21, 2019, 08:24:41 PM
Quote from: malckennedy on December 21, 2019, 08:18:47 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on December 21, 2019, 08:07:24 PM
Quote from: Legion on December 21, 2019, 07:58:07 PM
Poch: Open to offers (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50878900)

Apart from Everton who he quickly dismissed when they approached him two weeks ago. He's not going to come to us. Plenty of other good managers would do.

Maybe the Villa project is more attractive and with better financial backing than Everton?
Poch may or may not be interested (probably not) but if Smith does go we really do have to look at bringing in a top quality manager and not an up-and-comer or someone who has won the Finnish league twice in a row or someone who has been number two to a much better manager.

If you want to go left field I think this guy would be well worth looking at. Suso certainly would've heard of him:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcelino_Garc%C3%ADa_Toral

Suso worked with Benitez at Valencia as well didn’t he?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ROBBO on December 21, 2019, 09:32:08 PM
The team we put out today will not beat Norwich.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on December 21, 2019, 09:33:30 PM
Quote from: ROBBO on December 21, 2019, 09:32:08 PM
The team we put out today will not beat Norwich.

Agreed. It's all going to end in tears (and cabbages?) if it's allowed to drag on
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AVH87 on December 21, 2019, 09:37:58 PM
Let's be honest, Grealish was by far the biggest factor in us going up last season.

We won 2 in 13 while he was injured, then 10 in a row when he came back and showed he was head and shoulders above anyone else in the division. If he'd been injured a couple of weeks longer, we'd have finished mid table, Grealish would have been sold and we'd still be mid table there now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nunkin1965 on December 21, 2019, 09:41:03 PM
There aren’t any Dean Smith traits in Dean Smith’s team at the moment and the one thing we really lack is physicality.
We just look weak which is one thing a Dean Smith team isn’t.
Thinking back to his Brentford sides they had an imposing side to them which is something we have absolutely none of.

Are we just bloody cursed?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on December 21, 2019, 09:58:54 PM
We've been worked out by the scouts who come to watch our games for their respective Managers.  Without fresh blood, physicality and a change of formation to keep next up opponents guessing, we are easily one of the three worst teams in this division.  Even the stats are against us.  The only stat that is positive is the amount of goals we have scored.  Every other stat, such as games lost, goals conceded, fewest wins etc, has us in the bottom three, where, at the moment, we deserve to be.  We have gone from minus one goal to minus nine quite quickly too.  We are too easy to play against, no great physical presence, no great pace, crap in both boxes at corners, poor movement going forward etc. Can Dean turn this around?  Not without several new players he can't.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on December 21, 2019, 10:01:43 PM
Quote from: Newby on December 21, 2019, 09:58:54 PM
We've been worked out by the scouts who come to watch our games for their respective Managers.  Without fresh blood, physicality and a change of formation to keep next up opponents guessing, we are easily one of the three worst teams in this division.  Even the stats are against us.  The only stat that is positive is the amount of goals we have scored.  Every other stat, such as games lost, goals conceded, fewest wins etc, has us in the bottom three, where, at the moment, we deserve to be.  We have gone from minus one goal to minus nine quite quickly too.  We are too easy to play against, no great physical presence, no great pace, crap in both boxes at corners, poor movement going forward etc. Can Dean turn this around?  Not without several new players he can't.

He's spent £130m on new players. Mostly dross. Would you trust him & Suso with more of your money if you were the owners? Personally I fucking wouldn't, I'd be finding a manager that gets the best out of his team no matter who he's got available.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: DB on December 21, 2019, 10:02:30 PM
If we lose to Norwich, he should go and go get Rafa.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on December 21, 2019, 10:07:58 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on December 21, 2019, 10:01:43 PM
Quote from: Newby on December 21, 2019, 09:58:54 PM
We've been worked out by the scouts who come to watch our games for their respective Managers.  Without fresh blood, physicality and a change of formation to keep next up opponents guessing, we are easily one of the three worst teams in this division.  Even the stats are against us.  The only stat that is positive is the amount of goals we have scored.  Every other stat, such as games lost, goals conceded, fewest wins etc, has us in the bottom three, where, at the moment, we deserve to be.  We have gone from minus one goal to minus nine quite quickly too.  We are too easy to play against, no great physical presence, no great pace, crap in both boxes at corners, poor movement going forward etc. Can Dean turn this around?  Not without several new players he can't.

He's spent £130m on new players. Mostly dross. Would you trust him & Suso with more of your money if you were the owners? Personally I fucking wouldn't, I'd be finding a manager that gets the best out of his team no matter who he's got available.

I don't disagree, sadly.  I think Dean's lack of Premier experience and that fact that we seem to be imploding may mean that a change is inevitable.  Stick or twist situation for the owners.  Give him more money for January or sack him.  I'm not sure there is anything in between at the moment given the evidence of the last few weeks.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 21, 2019, 10:23:04 PM
I don’t agree entirely. With better tactics and late game management we could have beaten a number of teams earlier this season. These players kept up with the champions of Europe and likely league winners up until the 87th minute or whatever it was. Week after week of poor late game decisions and lack of tactical awareness has to have taken a toll on our players. They are better than they are showing right now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on December 21, 2019, 10:23:15 PM
Quote from: tomd2103 on December 21, 2019, 09:30:38 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on December 21, 2019, 08:43:38 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on December 21, 2019, 08:24:41 PM
Quote from: malckennedy on December 21, 2019, 08:18:47 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on December 21, 2019, 08:07:24 PM
Quote from: Legion on December 21, 2019, 07:58:07 PM
Poch: Open to offers (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50878900)

Apart from Everton who he quickly dismissed when they approached him two weeks ago. He's not going to come to us. Plenty of other good managers would do.

Maybe the Villa project is more attractive and with better financial backing than Everton?
Poch may or may not be interested (probably not) but if Smith does go we really do have to look at bringing in a top quality manager and not an up-and-comer or someone who has won the Finnish league twice in a row or someone who has been number two to a much better manager.

If you want to go left field I think this guy would be well worth looking at. Suso certainly would've heard of him:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcelino_Garc%C3%ADa_Toral

Suso worked with Benitez at Valencia as well didn’t he?


Yes, very successfully for a while. Under Benitez Valencia won their first La Liga title in thirty odd years and won it by some distance. They also won the UEFA cup under Pitarch and Benitez. But the reason Benitez quit Valencia to take over Liverpool was because he fell out with Pitarch. Benitez was manager of CD Tenerife when I was living out there and he was one of the most successful managers in their history, getting them promoted into the top flight and keeping them there two years running (on each occasion they needed to beat Real Madrid on the last day to stay up and they managed it both times and denied Madrid the title). Benitez is an excellent coach but he has a long history of falling out with a lot of people (players, presidents, coaching staff, media).
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on December 21, 2019, 10:31:47 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on December 21, 2019, 10:23:04 PM
I don’t agree entirely. With better tactics and late game management we could have beaten a number of teams earlier this season. These players kept up with the champions of Europe and likely league winners up until the 87th minute or whatever it was. Week after week of poor late game decisions and lack of tactical awareness has to have taken a toll on our players. They are better than they are showing right now.

Sometimes it is about narrow margins I guess, but those narrow margins are still leading to defeats and a lack of tactical nous, lack of experience purchased players for this season.  All hindsight I guess but we are going down the way it is shaping up at the moment.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 21, 2019, 10:36:49 PM
Quote from: Newby on December 21, 2019, 10:31:47 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on December 21, 2019, 10:23:04 PM
I don’t agree entirely. With better tactics and late game management we could have beaten a number of teams earlier this season. These players kept up with the champions of Europe and likely league winners up until the 87th minute or whatever it was. Week after week of poor late game decisions and lack of tactical awareness has to have taken a toll on our players. They are better than they are showing right now.

Sometimes it is about narrow margins I guess, but those narrow margins are still leading to defeats and a lack of tactical nous, lack of experience purchased players for this season.  All hindsight I guess but we are going down the way it is shaping up at the moment.

But that's what I mean. It is fine margins, but our players for as bad we look now earlier in the season we looked great in a number of games. There was nothing flukey about our performances at Spurs or Arsenal or like I said Liverpool yet in all three instances we lost those games very late on in large part due to tactical naivety. We win some of those and think of how high we'd feel and how much higher in the table we'd be. And it would created so much belief but we haven't learned from them and now we are on that horrible downward spiral where we have lost all belief and confidence. The talent and ability is there I still believe but the mental side is shot.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on December 21, 2019, 10:41:59 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on December 21, 2019, 10:36:49 PM
Quote from: Newby on December 21, 2019, 10:31:47 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on December 21, 2019, 10:23:04 PM
I don’t agree entirely. With better tactics and late game management we could have beaten a number of teams earlier this season. These players kept up with the champions of Europe and likely league winners up until the 87th minute or whatever it was. Week after week of poor late game decisions and lack of tactical awareness has to have taken a toll on our players. They are better than they are showing right now.

Sometimes it is about narrow margins I guess, but those narrow margins are still leading to defeats and a lack of tactical nous, lack of experience purchased players for this season.  All hindsight I guess but we are going down the way it is shaping up at the moment.

But that's what I mean. It is fine margins, but our players for as bad we look now earlier in the season we looked great in a number of games. There was nothing flukey about our game at Spurs or Arsenal or like I said Liverpool yet in all three instances we lost those games in large part due to naivety. We win some of those and think of how high we'd feel and how much higher in the table we'd be. And it would created so much belief but we haven't learned from them and now we are on that horrible downward spiral where we have lost all belief and confidence. The talent and ability is there I still believe but the mental side is shot.

Really good post TV and I agree with it.  Sadly, as the confidence has eroded, the defeats have got worse and Dean doesn't look capable of getting to grips with it at the moment.  I wish he could as I don't want him to lose his job.  Sadly, we seem on a slippery slope and are getting worse and as Head Coach, he is culpable.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on December 21, 2019, 10:44:42 PM
Very fair point, TV. As I put on the post-match thread, I like Smith. A lot. I have the utmost respect for what he did for us last season. I hope he can sort it out. I really do. At the moment with his inflexibility and stubborn refusal to change things I am losing hope that he can.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 21, 2019, 11:05:36 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on December 21, 2019, 10:01:43 PM
Quote from: Newby on December 21, 2019, 09:58:54 PM
We've been worked out by the scouts who come to watch our games for their respective Managers.  Without fresh blood, physicality and a change of formation to keep next up opponents guessing, we are easily one of the three worst teams in this division.  Even the stats are against us.  The only stat that is positive is the amount of goals we have scored.  Every other stat, such as games lost, goals conceded, fewest wins etc, has us in the bottom three, where, at the moment, we deserve to be.  We have gone from minus one goal to minus nine quite quickly too.  We are too easy to play against, no great physical presence, no great pace, crap in both boxes at corners, poor movement going forward etc. Can Dean turn this around?  Not without several new players he can't.

He's spent £130m on new players. Mostly dross. Would you trust him & Suso with more of your money if you were the owners? Personally I fucking wouldn't, I'd be finding a manager that gets the best out of his team no matter who he's got available.

Some of the players are good like some of the players were good when signed in 2015 and have since gone on to prove it elsewhere. Gana, Amavi, Veretout all playing well for CL or europa teams and Adama been POTS at Wolves so far.

Just like 2015 however we are paying for a neglect of the forward positions. I don't understand how we can spend so much and yet for the second premier league season be so poor upfront.

Last time we signed Gestede (woefully out of his depth at this level). Wesley is little better than him. Also signed Sinclair. AEG on form is probably better than him but still marginal. Same for Trez and Ayew.

Can't we sign any proven forward players? I must admit I'm getting a bit fed up of just signing project players in the final third. If history is to be studied you're risking plenty by gambling in forward areas with unproven top level strikers.

It's rare you find gems like Yorke and Benteke. Proven options like Dublin, Saunders and Carew have done us just as proud in last 25 years.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ROBBO on December 22, 2019, 12:11:42 AM
I said get the fat waiter a week ago I see that as the only hope of staying up, give him a decent amount to get a couple in and try and offload whatever we can.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KevinGage on December 22, 2019, 12:26:39 AM
There's just something immensely offputting about FSW.

Throughout his tenure at Newcastle, any criticism was met with a shrug of the shoulders and a 'what do you expect?' level of contempt.  Bruce with even less control over signings seems to be doing as well there.

Any time I caught Newcastle back in the top flight on his watch, his sole intention seemed to be to kill the game as a spectacle and hope to nick something.

His overall record can't be ignored, but not for me.

I wouldn't be completely stunned of Smudger turned it around from here. A win and a draw from the next two and we could be back up and running.

He needs to drop Wesley for the next match, mind.  For the player's own good as well as ours.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AV82EC on December 22, 2019, 12:36:39 AM
His intransigence in the face of overwhelming evidence that his team selection, tactical approach, game management and substitutions are not working is a huge red flag for me. He got away with it last year because even though we lost Grealish we had enough quality in the team in that league to still draw games and keep the points ticking over, he hasn’t got that luxury in the Premier League and I think he can’t seem to find an answer  because more worryingly he doesn’t have one. I don’t think they’ll act before the Watford game, lose that and I think he’s toast.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: DB on December 22, 2019, 12:42:02 AM
Quote from: ROBBO on December 22, 2019, 12:11:42 AM
I said get the fat waiter a week ago I see that as the only hope of staying up, give him a decent amount to get a couple in and try and offload whatever we can.

Agreed. He did well on a tight budget at Newcastle, so maybe with a bit of cash in Jan he can get us going. Smith just looks out of his depth the more the season progresses l, I really want him to succeed but I can't help thinking he is another Ch-ship manager that can't do it in the Prem.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on December 22, 2019, 01:38:30 AM
Quote from: KevinGage on December 22, 2019, 12:26:39 AM
There's just something immensely offputting about FSW.

Throughout his tenure at Newcastle, any criticism was met with a shrug of the shoulders and a 'what do you expect?' level of contempt.  Bruce with even less control over signings seems to be doing as well there.

Any time I caught Newcastle back in the top flight on his watch, his sole intention seemed to be to kill the game as a spectacle and hope to nick something.

His overall record can't be ignored, but not for me.

I wouldn't be completely stunned of Smudger turned it around from here. A win and a draw from the next two and we could be back up and running.

He needs to drop Wesley for the next match, mind.  For the player's own good as well as ours.

Agreed. Benitez is just Pulis if he'd been to finishing school.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 22, 2019, 01:48:48 AM
Smith has shown no flexibility or imagination or willingness to see what is going wrong and change it.
Where do you go with someone who repeatedly makes poor decisions and sticks to them?
I have not wanted a manager to succeed more, but his stubbornness is his downfall and I can not see how he is going to get out of this. It is now a matter of when not if.
Very very sad.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on December 22, 2019, 02:19:50 AM
Smith will not be sacked in the short term. We are likely to stick by him even if we .........d. However I think Dean will resign if we lose our next two games.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OzVilla on December 22, 2019, 02:33:23 AM
So after half the season gone we’e in the relegation places, still look tactically naive, look less fit than other teams, only play 1 formation despite not having the right players to play it, our 2nd half performances have been a disaster, our in game management has cost us points on its own and the team has gotten progressively worse as the season has gone on. 

On the plus side, he’s honest, he doesn’t bullshit in post match interviews, seems a really nice bloke and is a diehard Villa fan. 

If we were talking about managing a Sunday pub team you’d be inclined to stick with him but on any professional level I’m sorry to say I’m struggling to find reasons for him to stay. He needs 2 wins quickly to steady the ship or he’ll be gone and deservedly so unfortunately.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on December 22, 2019, 06:39:42 AM
Unlike Bruce, it appears Dean Smith has a plan A that he coaches (though it didn't look like that yesterday). Just like Bruce unfortunately, Dean has no plan B. 4 away points all season should tell you that 433 away from home is not working and that something else needs to be tried, if only to secure draws. The worrying thing now is that our 433 has been sussed out at home and if it takes another half a season to work this out then we are
f-cked. Revert to 3 cbs if you want your full backs to bomb on. Play with Jack or Jota just off Wesley if you want to persevere with him but for f-cks sake do something different! 6 points from the next 2 games is an absolute must!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VinnieChase84 on December 22, 2019, 06:45:31 AM
Rafa and Purslow hate each other so that one won’t be happening
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Demitri_C on December 22, 2019, 07:35:37 AM
This might sound ridiculous but if smith goes id seriously try get wenger in.

If we promise him cash and ambition i think he may be interested.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Bobby Boy on December 22, 2019, 08:50:52 AM
How we set up against Norwich will let everyone know what has been learned from Southampton. Continuing with a 433 would be criminal.

Dean isn't making the most of what he has. Go 442 with Kodjia playing off Wesley. Be more compact in midfield, less open and let's see what happens.

Norwich aren't great but they are quick and slick on the counter. Play the same way as yesterday and they will play through us.

Let's change. After yesterday we have nothing to lose.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on December 22, 2019, 09:01:01 AM
As for Wenger,  he knows that Villa Park is littered with the careers of Frenchmen.  A black hole into which his kinsmen disappear.

(See Secret Santa)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 22, 2019, 09:29:43 AM
Full on crisis time now. Dean, your system is not working and we are getting worse. Work out a different game plan or we are toast.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TonyD on December 22, 2019, 11:08:32 AM
So is Dean suddenly going to change his formation, drop the clown Wes, play Jack in the middle, use subs properly, have a plan B and get the team fit?

Is he bollocks. 

Get rid while still have a chance to stay up. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TonyD on December 22, 2019, 11:10:04 AM
I also think we need a next manager poll.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: passport1 on December 22, 2019, 11:15:39 AM
Yep the owners need to know who our new messiah is.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Roysmert on December 22, 2019, 11:20:25 AM
done.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ketzster on December 22, 2019, 11:23:25 AM
Quote from: TonyD on December 22, 2019, 11:08:32 AM
So is Dean suddenly going to change his formation, drop the clown Wes, play Jack in the middle, use subs properly, have a plan B and get the team fit?

Is he bollocks. 

Get rid while still have a chance to stay up.

Absolutely, keeping him for Norwich and Watford is just wasting games we need to win. We won’t win them with Smith, like yesterday.

It’s a year ago today we lost to Leeds at home. He didn’t make any changes when he needed to in the championship between then and Stoke away. The only thing that changed was Grealish coming back to single handedly drag us up. If Smith had been left to his devices, we were on course to finish towards the lower end of the championship. If he had made tactical changes etc. before Grealish came back you could give Smith credit for promotion. But he never made any changes. He still had Mings, Mcginn and Abraham during the 2 wins in 13 game run and couldn’t do anything with them.

Grealish coming back in the championship is the equivalent of Barcelona getting Messi back after injury. Grealish isn’t exceptional in the same way in the Premier League so if you take that advantage away you are back to being reliant on Smith again, like we were before Derby at home last season. If you take out Grealish single handedly getting us up in those ten games, this year we have won 6 games when we have had to rely on Smiths ability as manager. Ipswich at home, Bristol City, Everton, Norwich who were missing lots of players, a lucky win against Brighton and a win against a dismal Newcastle. The rest has mostly been dire, a fair amount of it being the worst I’ve ever seen. Smith has overseen performances such as Wigan away, Reading away, Hull at home, Swansea in the cup, yesterday, Wolves away etc. It hasn’t made any difference whether it’s been Premier League, or championship where he had much better players available than Wigan did for example. People kept on, ‘we’ve played the top teams in the last seven games’. How do you explain last season where we won 2 in 13 against footballing powerhouses such as Wigan, Hull, QPR, Reading etc? Everybody says he needs a plan B, but in his whole time here he hasn’t tried anything different so what is there to suggest he will now? We needed him to last season and he didn’t.

If you have a player like Grealish in the championship like we did, it can mask the reality of the managers ability. Smiths ability was evident before Grealish came back, he couldn’t do it in the championship so it was never going to work in the league above. All of the problems that are there now, have been there all year. It’s possible to get promoted under the wrong manager when you’ve got a player like Grealish. You’re obliged to keep that manager and then you spend a fortune and you’re in a total mess, like we are now. I’ve wanted him gone since Wigan away
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on December 22, 2019, 11:37:58 AM
If I were the owners Boxing Day would be the point of no return for Dean if we lose.Harsh, yes, but necessary for any chance of survival.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on December 22, 2019, 11:39:04 AM
We are in a position I feared we might be, in the relegation spots going into a transfer window. The powers that be wondering whether to back the current manager with funds or to back an alternative manager instead. Stick or twist.

I’d stick, we need some continuity, we have played very well in some games, terrible in others, the last two being the worst and fresh in the mind so it’s only natural to concentrate on them. We need to build something and DS needs a little more patience and a lot more players who are capable of hitting the ground running.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Demitri_C on December 22, 2019, 11:41:08 AM
What i dont get its taken half the season before smiths contemplating a 4-4-2. Poor.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on December 22, 2019, 11:42:31 AM
Sacking him is the easy thing to do and I haven't seen any credible options as who to replace him with yet. I'd stick with him but it needs to improve massively after yesterday.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: geolex on December 22, 2019, 11:54:18 AM
 it needed to improve massively after Leics.... it didn't,it needed to improve massively after Sheff Utd... it didn't...

sacking him is not the easy option its the difficult one.. letting the ship sink and doing nothing is the easy option...owners have a big week ahead of them that will shape the clubs future....that said i really hoped (and still do) he would prove to be the manager we all crave...so sad really....
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Axl Rose on December 22, 2019, 11:59:35 AM
Quote from: Clampy on December 22, 2019, 11:42:31 AM
Sacking him is the easy thing to do and I haven't seen any credible options as who to replace him with yet. I'd stick with him but it needs to improve massively after yesterday.

Exactly how I feel, Clampy. Well put.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: andyh on December 22, 2019, 12:04:10 PM
Quote from: Clampy on December 22, 2019, 11:42:31 AM
Sacking him is the easy thing to do and I haven't seen any credible options as who to replace him with yet. I'd stick with him but it needs to improve massively after yesterday.
Being true to form there Clampy.
Not having a a go at you, but you are being consistent in your defence of every single manager we have ended up sacking.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on December 22, 2019, 12:04:44 PM
Quote from: Axl Rose on December 22, 2019, 11:59:35 AM
Quote from: Clampy on December 22, 2019, 11:42:31 AM
Sacking him is the easy thing to do and I haven't seen any credible options as who to replace him with yet. I'd stick with him but it needs to improve massively after yesterday.

Exactly how I feel, Clampy. Well put.
I’m really struggling to understand how we have lost so much of what was good in a very short space of time.
I agree with Clampy though, we need to stop the rot and very quickly. I’m just never ever confident over Xmas with the Villa, never have been.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on December 22, 2019, 12:04:55 PM
For what it's worth, I agree with Clampy.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on December 22, 2019, 12:12:05 PM
If we lose on Boxing Day then they'll sack him.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Monty on December 22, 2019, 12:13:34 PM
Quote from: Ads on December 22, 2019, 12:12:05 PM
If we lose on Boxing Day then they'll sack him.

Which might be, if not too late exactly, then at least pointlessly after a huge missed opportunity.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 22, 2019, 12:13:43 PM
At which point we might be 6 points from safety.  What a mess.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mallo on December 22, 2019, 12:13:45 PM
We should win on boxing day - lose and he'll go I think. I'd like to see 2 up front Boxing day. If we stuff it up and they win I've no idea who'll replace him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 22, 2019, 12:17:10 PM
Quote from: mallo on December 22, 2019, 12:13:45 PM
We should win on boxing day - lose and he'll go I think. I'd like to see 2 up front Boxing day. If we stuff it up and they win I've no idea who'll replace him.

I can see two points at most from the next two games, then we've got Burnley away and Man City at home.  Looking nailed on for relegation I reckon.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nunkin1965 on December 22, 2019, 12:22:07 PM
Sometimes this site is embarrassing.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on December 22, 2019, 12:22:20 PM
Quote from: andyh on December 22, 2019, 12:04:10 PM
Quote from: Clampy on December 22, 2019, 11:42:31 AM
Sacking him is the easy thing to do and I haven't seen any credible options as who to replace him with yet. I'd stick with him but it needs to improve massively after yesterday.
Being true to form there Clampy.
Not having a a go at you, but you are being consistent in your defence of every single manager we have ended up sacking.

I know why you might think that not really. Bruce should have gone after the play off final, Lambert should have gone after the last game of the season down at Spurs where we lost 4-0. I thought Di Matteo went a bit early but I think there was more too it than just results. Remi Garde seemed like a good idea at the wrong time but even he hasn't had a job since I don't think. The only one I didn't have any patience with (and I should have) was Houiller. Smith did a amazing job getting us up and I think he should get the chance to turn this slump round but yesterday was pathetic.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on December 22, 2019, 12:24:30 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 22, 2019, 12:17:10 PM
Quote from: mallo on December 22, 2019, 12:13:45 PM
We should win on boxing day - lose and he'll go I think. I'd like to see 2 up front Boxing day. If we stuff it up and they win I've no idea who'll replace him.

I can see two points at most from the next two games, then we've got Burnley away and Man City at home.  Looking nailed on for relegation I reckon.

If nothing changes, then yes. It's hard to fathom dominating Man United for large periods and the last 3 performances. Outclassed by Chelsea we may have been, but we were stubborn and dogged at least and but for a brilliant save, may have got a point.

Time to change, Smith  or it will be time to change Smith.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on December 22, 2019, 12:25:34 PM
Once fans on forums start discussing the managers head in numbers, this then progresses to unrest on the terraces (which I believe began yesterday? ). Very rarely  does a manager manage to turn opinion around from this point and in our case we tend to keep them too long and it turns poisonous.

I really hope he can turn it round but I hugely doubt it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on December 22, 2019, 12:38:41 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on December 22, 2019, 12:25:34 PM
Once fans on forums start discussing the managers head in numbers, this then progresses to unrest on the terraces (which I believe began yesterday? ). Very rarely  does a manager manage to turn opinion around from this point and in our case we tend to keep them too long and it turns poisonous.

I really hope he can turn it round but I hugely doubt it.

Fans on forums aren't that important.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: A Northern Soul on December 22, 2019, 12:41:26 PM
There are obvious flaws to me - Wesley needs support, the defence is stretched, the full backs prefer going forward, the wingers are ineffective and the midfield is looking bare. We know he wants to play 433 but he could address many of those problems by going 532. Can Chester get through games in a back 3? Can the midfield be eased with 2 in front of them? Heaton - Guilbert Engels Chester Hause Targett - Grealish Nakamba Luiz - Wesley Kodjia?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: levico on December 22, 2019, 12:42:11 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on December 22, 2019, 12:25:34 PM
Once fans on forums start discussing the managers head in numbers, this then progresses to unrest on the terraces (which I believe began yesterday? ). Very rarely  does a manager manage to turn opinion around from this point and in our case we tend to keep them too long and it turns poisonous.

I really hope he can turn it round but I hugely doubt it.

I have to agree - with huge regret.
My biggest concern now is that our owners don’t react quick enough. Going down with the hope of a speedy return is a hugely flawed and expensive strategy. We should be confirming our ambition by appointing a big name, experienced manager.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on December 22, 2019, 12:42:43 PM
Probably not but I think it gives a decent first indication of what way opinion is starting to lean towards.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 22, 2019, 12:52:45 PM
Based on the performances over the last couple of weeks it looks like some of the players have given up on him. This happens when they stop believing in what the manager is doing. All of the issues that have been raised regarding DS decisions, selection, system ,poor game management effect attitude and commitment.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 22, 2019, 12:54:59 PM
Smith doesn't even appear to have a clue who his best midfield is.  These have been the central three for the last few games:

Southampton - Hourihane, Luiz, McGinn
Sheffield United - McGinn, Nakamba, Lansbury
Leicester - McGinn, Nakamba, Luiz
Chelsea - Hourihane, Nakamba, McGinn
Man U - McGinn, Luiz, Hourihane

Five games, five attempts at finding the right formula and failed in all of them except Man U.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: David_Nab on December 22, 2019, 12:55:30 PM
Last season against Rotheram down to 10 needing to win he puts on Kodjia with the plan being the extra attacker will cause more issues to negate the loss of a man in midfield.A good decision made at half time after watching the fh.

Yesterday 2 nil down and struggling , he leaves it does nothing ..they score and then he makes the change to me at least it was obvious sending them out 2h exactly as he had been fh was not going to work. All seaon a reoccurring trait is him waiting too long to make changes in games ,I can't recall a change made that has really changed the flow of the game.

The manager can only instruct the players once on the pitch they need to perform and clearly some for what ever reason are not , but he repeatedly says we need to do this , need to do that yet every game same formation/tactics and games flow the same way. Norwich is a massive game now if we line up the same way again and lose then the board back him in Jan to add players to play to how he is setting up or they consider replacing him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on December 22, 2019, 12:57:32 PM
I said after the Leicester  defeat that we are on the brink. Everything depends on how we react and recover from there. It looks as though we have fallen on the wrong side. Smith and his team have been tactically out maneuvered by almost every team in the last 9 games. During that period we have only had some success against Newcastle and Manure. It started with being tactically defeated and has now moved onto being taken down on  physical effort and desire. Our heads are dropping and yesterday the team spent a fair chunk of match arguing amongst themselves. I noted that Smith, Terry and O'Kelly were stood up in the technical area for the entirety of the second half clearly indicating  that there is a problem. So, I think, they know what's going wrong trick is now if they are good enough to introduce correction? Their playing resources are depleted with Mings and McGinn out
 and another couple of bad results at home and fans will lose hope so it's going to take something special to bring us out of this slump.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: in exile on December 22, 2019, 01:00:12 PM
Looks like I'm not the only one falling out of love with Dean Smith
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Flin5tone on December 22, 2019, 01:03:23 PM
I think the players aren't happy, did anyone see Guilbert kick the post in anger yesterday
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT on December 22, 2019, 01:04:47 PM
I'd like to see Dean bring James Chester in for Norwich. We are screaming out for some experience back there, plus it would take the weight of the captaincy off Jacks shoulders.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on December 22, 2019, 01:05:45 PM
Quote from: Flin5tone on December 22, 2019, 01:03:23 PM
I think the players aren't happy, did anyone see Guilbert kick the post in anger yesterday

I should hope they are not happy at losing.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 22, 2019, 01:08:09 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 22, 2019, 12:54:59 PM
Smith doesn't even appear to have a clue who his best midfield is.  These have been the central three for the last few games:

Southampton - Hourihane, Luiz, McGinn
Sheffield United - McGinn, Nakamba, Lansbury
Leicester - McGinn, Nakamba, Luiz
Chelsea - Hourihane, Nakamba, McGinn
Man U - McGinn, Luiz, Hourihane

Five games, five attempts at finding the right formula and failed in all of them except Man U.
I don’t see how a flat 3 works for these players.
The first requirement of the midfield  is to anchor the defense and enable fullbacks to push on.
We don’t provide any defensive cover at all and the goals and chances created against us tell you this.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on December 22, 2019, 02:05:04 PM
Quote from: andyh on December 22, 2019, 12:04:10 PM
Quote from: Clampy on December 22, 2019, 11:42:31 AM
Sacking him is the easy thing to do and I haven't seen any credible options as who to replace him with yet. I'd stick with him but it needs to improve massively after yesterday.
Being true to form there Clampy.
Not having a a go at you, but you are being consistent in your defence of every single manager we have ended up sacking.

Every manager leaves every club.

Just because we're not doing very well at the moment doesn't mean he needs to go.

The manager, players, owners are all new. Surely they should have more than 18 matches in the top division of the hardest league in the world?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 22, 2019, 02:09:31 PM
Quote from: Drummond on December 22, 2019, 02:05:04 PM
Quote from: andyh on December 22, 2019, 12:04:10 PM
Quote from: Clampy on December 22, 2019, 11:42:31 AM
Sacking him is the easy thing to do and I haven't seen any credible options as who to replace him with yet. I'd stick with him but it needs to improve massively after yesterday.
Being true to form there Clampy.
Not having a a go at you, but you are being consistent in your defence of every single manager we have ended up sacking.

Every manager leaves every club.

Just because we're not doing very well at the moment doesn't mean he needs to go.

The manager, players, owners are all new. Surely they should have more than 18 matches in the top division of the hardest league in the world?
I guess it depends how long you want to stay in the hardest league in the world.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The_ads on December 22, 2019, 02:22:58 PM
This site is embarrassing at time’s. The exact same rhetoric was being banded about this time last year. We invested in Jan with some smart loans and we never looked back. Granted this time around we’ve just lost one of our two talismen for 3 months and we’re in a tougher league, but how about we give the manager some slack and allow him to try and get it right. There’s 20 games to go FFS and we are far from dead and buried. There are also no credible candidates for the job - it’ll just be given to John Terry.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 22, 2019, 02:27:09 PM
I think criticism is perfectly warranted because Dean is showing nothing to suggest he can adapt his style. He really needs to and he also needs to learn, fast, how to react and change games. It’s not good enough.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Monty on December 22, 2019, 02:31:11 PM
Quote from: The_ads on December 22, 2019, 02:22:58 PM
This site is embarrassing at time’s. The exact same rhetoric was being banded about this time last year. We invested in Jan with some smart loans and we never looked back. Granted this time around we’ve just lost one of our two talismen for 3 months and we’re in a tougher league, but how about we give the manager some slack and allow him to try and get it right. There’s 20 games to go FFS and we are far from dead and buried. There are also no credible candidates for the job - it’ll just be given to John Terry.

Smith could at least claim a track record in that division. There's absolutely nothing to suggest he's got what it takes in the Premier League.

It's funny actually, because everyone these days thinks football is too trigger-happy with managers, but when it comes to making a move on people who clearly aren't going to cut it a weird lenience has broken out. With Solskjaer, Pellegrini (though he say least has a good record elsewhere at this level), it's really hard to see why the projects haven't been abandoned. With Smith, it's really sad to say this but I just don't think he's up to this particular task and it's now become very obvious, so why bother delaying the inevitable?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on December 22, 2019, 02:32:27 PM
The biggest concern for me was the clear lack of dynamism and energy in the team yesterday, and that was a big shock to me. It tells me that the management team are struggling to get inside the players' heads and support / motivate them.
The start of the second half was a disaster (as at SheffU), and I got no sense of leadership on the pitch.
If you add all of this to the lack of tactical variety and responsiveness to opposition tactics and play, you get relegation. Yesterday, we were a tied-on relegation team.

We've stuggled with fitness, ball retention and intensity all season; we should be seeing the lessons-learned from the early games being ironed out by now, and are not; our 'star' player looks isolated and lacks real impact (unless chances like yesterday's present themselves); the gambles in the transfer market are looking to be in deficit.

Once again, our owners have a challenging decision, which starts with "how long can we hold on to the current situation before we have to act?" The second question is: "who could come in and make an immediate impact?"
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nii Lamptey on December 22, 2019, 02:34:37 PM
Quote from: The_ads on December 22, 2019, 02:22:58 PM
This site is embarrassing at time’s. The exact same rhetoric was being banded about this time last year. We invested in Jan with some smart loans and we never looked back. Granted this time around we’ve just lost one of our two talismen for 3 months and we’re in a tougher league, but how about we give the manager some slack and allow him to try and get it right. There’s 20 games to go FFS and we are far from dead and buried. There are also no credible candidates for the job - it’ll just be given to John Terry.

That's my biggest fear. I have a feeling that if they do oust Smith, John Terry will just drop into his position. That is not the answer.

Based on what we've witnessed this season, I believe that Jack Grealish got us promotion last season, NOT Dean Smith.

At Championship level, Grealish was winning matches for us pretty much singlehandedly. At Premier League level, Jack needs help... and this is where Dean Smith and his coaching/tactics are being shown up for what they are - Not good enough.

Love the bloke, but he simply isn't cutting it at this level.  Even fans of previous clubs have warned us this is how it would pan out. It's not rocket science.

We need to say thanks but no thanks, and get a PL experienced manager in to sort them out. I'd wave as much money as necessary under the nose of Benitez, to prise him away from China before it's too late.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on December 22, 2019, 02:39:31 PM
It’s confusing. You hear him talk about the game and he’s all about “the overload” and “setting traps” and clever stuff but if you watch us play, we do stuff like play a stupid high line against a pacy attack like Leicester have and get picked off easily, and then next home game, he does exactly the same. Where is the tactical brain in that?

Then there’s watching matches run away from us and not making a substitution until it is too late. And even then it is almost always like for like and not accompanied by a change in formation.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 22, 2019, 03:04:58 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 22, 2019, 12:54:59 PM
Smith doesn't even appear to have a clue who his best midfield is.  These have been the central three for the last few games:

Southampton - Hourihane, Luiz, McGinn
Sheffield United - McGinn, Nakamba, Lansbury
Leicester - McGinn, Nakamba, Luiz
Chelsea - Hourihane, Nakamba, McGinn
Man U - McGinn, Luiz, Hourihane

Five games, five attempts at finding the right formula and failed in all of them except Man U.

I am going to hope the injury to SJM forces him to put Jack back in the middle because the out wide experiment is a failure. Put him behind Kodjia, stick Luiz, Hourihane and Nakamba behind him and let have the freedom that he once had. Either go two up front; Kodjia, AEG, or one up front and one winger.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Luke8 on December 22, 2019, 03:05:40 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on December 22, 2019, 02:39:31 PM
It’s confusing. You hear him talk about the game and he’s all about “the overload” and “setting traps” and clever stuff but if you watch us play, we do stuff like play a stupid high line against a pacy attack like Leicester have and get picked off easily, and then next home game, he does exactly the same. Where is the tactical brain in that?


Agree, it’s so frustrating. I think, if you look at the season as a whole, you can see what Dean is trying to do in terms of how he wants us to play. And I still think that long term if would be successful but at the moment is requires us to have pretty much everyone bang at it to get a result.

We do have good players and think it’s fine when we are playing with confidence, but we just seem to be doing nothing to help them out at the moment when so many are clearly struggling.

Playing too high a line and leaving the centres 1v1 too often with opposition attackers. Full backs and Marvelous are pushing too high up the pitch into midfield. Wesley too isolated so he gets minimal service and his pressing is largely a waste of time. Not really creating space for our CMs to attack any more.

Wouldn’t claim to be any kind of expert but all these seem to be fairly obvious factors that are making us so easy to play against at the moment. He needs to be doing more to help the players out at the moment.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: curiousorange on December 22, 2019, 03:07:59 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on December 22, 2019, 02:39:31 PM
It’s confusing. You hear him talk about the game and he’s all about “the overload” and “setting traps” and clever stuff but if you watch us play, we do stuff like play a stupid high line against a pacy attack like Leicester have and get picked off easily, and then next home game, he does exactly the same. Where is the tactical brain in that?

Then there’s watching matches run away from us and not making a substitution until it is too late. And even then it is almost always like for like and not accompanied by a change in formation.

This is what is frustrating about Smith. He's a great talker, and seems to be convincing in his ability to read the game and improve, but when it comes down to it he might not really be a very good coach.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 22, 2019, 03:10:13 PM
It’s not good enough. We look utter dross, lacking in energy and without a clear plan. Dean needs to look at himself and reflect that what’s he’s doing at the moment will get us relegated. We need a real shake up in approach, and we must stop conceding so many goals.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TonyD on December 22, 2019, 03:14:07 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on December 22, 2019, 03:04:58 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 22, 2019, 12:54:59 PM
Smith doesn't even appear to have a clue who his best midfield is.  These have been the central three for the last few games:

Southampton - Hourihane, Luiz, McGinn
Sheffield United - McGinn, Nakamba, Lansbury
Leicester - McGinn, Nakamba, Luiz
Chelsea - Hourihane, Nakamba, McGinn
Man U - McGinn, Luiz, Hourihane

Five games, five attempts at finding the right formula and failed in all of them except Man U.

I am going to hope the injury to SJM forces him to put Jack back in the middle because the out wide experiment is a failure. Put him behind Kodjia, stick Luiz, Hourihane and Nakamba behind him and let have the freedom that he once had. Either go two up front; Kodjia, AEG, or one up front and one winger.
I’d go with that formation all day long.  Should have been implemented many games ago.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on December 22, 2019, 03:20:10 PM
I disagree and would push the full backs further forward quickly when we get possession leaving the two CBs and the holding MF to mind the shop. We might then start imposing ourselves on the game a little more.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy65 on December 22, 2019, 03:24:14 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 22, 2019, 12:54:59 PM
Smith doesn't even appear to have a clue who his best midfield is.  These have been the central three for the last few games:

Southampton - Hourihane, Luiz, McGinn
Sheffield United - McGinn, Nakamba, Lansbury
Leicester - McGinn, Nakamba, Luiz
Chelsea - Hourihane, Nakamba, McGinn
Man U - McGinn, Luiz, Hourihane

Five games, five attempts at finding the right formula and failed in all of them except Man U.

The problem is that whilst the combinations are all different, apart from SJM, none of the others Are good enough
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on December 22, 2019, 03:45:01 PM
Quote from: The_ads on December 22, 2019, 02:22:58 PM
There are also no credible candidates for the job
That gets said every time our manager is in a precarious position.  They all get replaced sooner or later.  To say there are no credible candidates is absurd.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy65 on December 22, 2019, 03:45:59 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on December 22, 2019, 03:45:01 PM
Quote from: The_ads on December 22, 2019, 02:22:58 PM
There are also no credible candidates for the job
That gets said every time our manager is in a precarious position.  They all get replaced sooner or later.  To say there are no credible candidates is absurd.

Who’s your choice?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on December 22, 2019, 03:53:03 PM
Quote from: Rudy65 on December 22, 2019, 03:45:59 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on December 22, 2019, 03:45:01 PM
Quote from: The_ads on December 22, 2019, 02:22:58 PM
There are also no credible candidates for the job
That gets said every time our manager is in a precarious position.  They all get replaced sooner or later.  To say there are no credible candidates is absurd.

Who’s your choice?

I can tell you what I'm looking for in a new guy: an experienced PL manager (preferably with overseas experience too); who has won proper trophies; is reasonably progressive; adaptable; gets the best out of his players.  Of course most won't tick all of those boxes but weakness in one area can be offset by being outstanding in another.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 22, 2019, 03:53:22 PM
Quote from: Rudy65 on December 22, 2019, 03:45:59 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on December 22, 2019, 03:45:01 PM
Quote from: The_ads on December 22, 2019, 02:22:58 PM
There are also no credible candidates for the job
That gets said every time our manager is in a precarious position.  They all get replaced sooner or later.  To say there are no credible candidates is absurd.

Who’s your choice?


Ideally either Ron Saunders or Sir Graham, but if Bill Shankly, Sir Alf, Fergie, Sacchi are free will take on of them
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: jwarry on December 22, 2019, 03:57:32 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on December 22, 2019, 03:53:22 PM
Quote from: Rudy65 on December 22, 2019, 03:45:59 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on December 22, 2019, 03:45:01 PM
Quote from: The_ads on December 22, 2019, 02:22:58 PM
There are also no credible candidates for the job
That gets said every time our manager is in a precarious position.  They all get replaced sooner or later.  To say there are no credible candidates is absurd.

Who’s your choice?


Ideally either Ron Saunders or Sir Graham, but if Bill Shankly, Sir Alf, Fergie, Sacchi are free will take on of them

Pochettino and give him a sackful of money
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 22, 2019, 04:04:17 PM
Niko Kovac for me.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ez on December 22, 2019, 04:04:18 PM
The owners will be checking out possible replacements already.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Flamingo Lane on December 22, 2019, 04:08:15 PM
Yesterday's performance was woeful, the players seem to have lost all confidence in themselves and, most worryingly, in each other.  It is baffling that Smith is persisting with a system that self-evidently is not working and with players who appear wholly unsuited to it.  As it looks at the minute, we look more likely than not to finish bottom of this league.

All that said, and some may like it or not, all the signs are that the owners have every confidence in Smith - if it were otherwise, there was enough writing on the wall at the time when he was granted his contract extension for the owners to have held off granting him one.  That being the case, he isn't likely to be dismissed now or soon, and it would seem reasonable to assume that the owners will be prepared to invest in more quality players of the type and in the positions we need them most, in the course of the coming window.  In fact, I am hoping that these players are already lined up (oven ready, as it were), as our dealings in the summer seem to have been well organised.  With such new players on board to add some further real quality, hopefully the best of the signings we did make in the summer will rediscover their individual and collective promise.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 22, 2019, 04:34:50 PM
What is with recent Villa that does seemingly aspiring managers playing good football or successful football at their previous clubs into shit when they come to us? Lambert's Norwich played lovely football, punched way above their weight and in a couple of years he turned into a bollocks talking tramp under a bridge. Remi Garde wins two trophies in France at Lyon, manages in the CL, ooks and sounds sharp, we turn him into a fucking zombie. Dean Smith is now threatening much the same. Brentford found brilliant players for next to nothing, played some superb football, cut us to pieces numerous times and now we can barely retain possession, don't shoot on goal, can't keep the ball out of our net and he never wants to try anything new in terms of tactics and stubbornly persists with a forward who cannot score. And he's coming out with Lambert-lite style garbage after games.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nii Lamptey on December 22, 2019, 04:40:07 PM
Benitez for me.
High profile manager who's been there, done that. He even got Newcastle promoted with Ashley as his chairman?!


Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on December 22, 2019, 04:43:39 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on December 22, 2019, 04:34:50 PM
What is with recent Villa that does seemingly aspiring managers playing good football or successful football at their previous clubs into shit when they come to us? Lambert's Norwich played lovely football, punched way above their weight and in a couple of years he turned into a bollocks talking tramp under a bridge. Remi Garde wins two trophies in France at Lyon, manages in the CL, ooks and sounds sharp, we turn him into a fucking zombie. Dean Smith is now threatening much the same. Brentford found brilliant players for next to nothing, played some superb football, cut us to pieces numerous times and now we can barely retain possession, don't shoot on goal, can't keep the ball out of our net and he never wants to try anything new in terms of tactics and stubbornly persists with a forward who cannot score. And he's coming out with Lambert-lite style garbage after games.
Maybe just maybe Aston Villa as a club is just so much bigger than Norwich, Lyon and Brentford. These fellas come in and the size of the task just consumes them.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on December 22, 2019, 04:54:59 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 22, 2019, 04:04:17 PM
Niko Kovac for me.

That's a very good shout. He was linked with the Everton job, no idea if he was actually approached though.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 22, 2019, 05:01:47 PM
Quote from: Ian J on December 22, 2019, 04:43:39 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on December 22, 2019, 04:34:50 PM
What is with recent Villa that does seemingly aspiring managers playing good football or successful football at their previous clubs into shit when they come to us? Lambert's Norwich played lovely football, punched way above their weight and in a couple of years he turned into a bollocks talking tramp under a bridge. Remi Garde wins two trophies in France at Lyon, manages in the CL, ooks and sounds sharp, we turn him into a fucking zombie. Dean Smith is now threatening much the same. Brentford found brilliant players for next to nothing, played some superb football, cut us to pieces numerous times and now we can barely retain possession, don't shoot on goal, can't keep the ball out of our net and he never wants to try anything new in terms of tactics and stubbornly persists with a forward who cannot score. And he's coming out with Lambert-lite style garbage after games.
Maybe just maybe Aston Villa as a club is just so much bigger than Norwich, Lyon and Brentford. These fellas come in and the size of the task just consumes them.

There are plenty of managers that take a step up and don't miss a beat. Pochettino went from Southampton to Spurs and made them so much better is just one example that immediately comes to mind. I don't think the Villa job is different to other big clubs. I'll concede I'm sure say Everton fans think the same as us. Similar size clubs where manager after manager has never fulfiled their potential despite being given incredibke resources.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 22, 2019, 05:03:00 PM
Quote from: Ads on December 22, 2019, 12:24:30 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 22, 2019, 12:17:10 PM
Quote from: mallo on December 22, 2019, 12:13:45 PM
We should win on boxing day - lose and he'll go I think. I'd like to see 2 up front Boxing day. If we stuff it up and they win I've no idea who'll replace him.

I can see two points at most from the next two games, then we've got Burnley away and Man City at home.  Looking nailed on for relegation I reckon.

If nothing changes, then yes. It's hard to fathom dominating Man United for large periods and the last 3 performances. Outclassed by Chelsea we may have been, but we were stubborn and dogged at least and but for a brilliant save, may have got a point.

Time to change, Smith  or it will be time to change Smith.

Think the Leicester defeat has messed with the heads of the players. Even in that game the first 10 minutes of that we were decent and should've gone 1 up.

Losing Mings, then the goal being scored and then Leicester completely outclassing us was the first time we've looked a championship side playing in premier league all season imo (maybe Wolves away is arguably). Since then the two performances have been abysmal in all aspects.

We're still very fragile as a club. You can see it when we're leading v a top team and don't believe we'll win. Loads of other teams around us all season have shown it's actually not that difficult.

Hard to believe aswell Southampton two months ago lost a game 9-0. They've only lost two league games since I think. We seem to go into mourning for a three month period after getting thrashed in a game, a real hangover of the Lambert seasons.

If we don't snap out of it very soon we'll look back at this period in May as the time we were relegated. Not changing the manager quickly enough could also play a part.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 22, 2019, 05:05:24 PM
Quote from: Monty on December 22, 2019, 12:13:34 PM
Quote from: Ads on December 22, 2019, 12:12:05 PM
If we lose on Boxing Day then they'll sack him.

Which might be, if not too late exactly, then at least pointlessly after a huge missed opportunity.

It's not too late at all. We sacked Lambert mid Feb in 2015 and stayed up comfortably in the end. I can remember Sunderland sacking managers in March and doing their great escapes three seasons running.

A new manager potentially has 20 games and a transfer window to get 5-6 wins and a few draws which will give us a decent chance. If Tim Sherwood could do it this new board clearly wouldn't be setting their sights very high if they appointed someone who wouldn't be capable of that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on December 22, 2019, 05:06:00 PM
Quote from: Ian J on December 22, 2019, 04:43:39 PM
Maybe just maybe Aston Villa as a club is just so much bigger than Norwich, Lyon and Brentford. These fellas come in and the size of the task just consumes them.
I don't think it's the size of the club but I think you're spot on about it being the size of the task.  We appointed a succession of poor managers under, at times, erratic ownership and that went on for so long that the scale of the rebuilding job at Villa just kept getting bigger and bigger.  It's hard to believe that anyone seriously thought the likes of Sherwood, Garde, and Di Matteo were going to turn us around.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on December 22, 2019, 05:07:48 PM
Agree with that. Leicester game, especially considering the occasion, felt like a massive kick in the nuts. Manner of the defeat more than the result. We were absolutely schooled all over the pitch, no fight at all, and were made to look hapless. I think a lot of fans felt shell shocked, expect it’s similar for the players.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 22, 2019, 05:08:10 PM
Quote from: CT on December 22, 2019, 01:04:47 PM
I'd like to see Dean bring James Chester in for Norwich. We are screaming out for some experience back there, plus it would take the weight of the captaincy off Jacks shoulders.

I can see that happening actually. Big issue is if he comes in and plays well then I really can't see him then starting at Watford, two games in 48 hours would be too much.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy65 on December 22, 2019, 05:10:22 PM
Quote from: Nii Lamptey on December 22, 2019, 04:40:07 PM
Benitez for me.
High profile manager who's been there, done that. He even got Newcastle promoted with Ashley as his chairman?!

Got them relegated as well. Bruce has performed better this season than Rafa last year
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 22, 2019, 05:14:01 PM
Rafa would get us very well organised.

That's what we need, grind out a couple of 1-0s or 0-0s to get some points on the board. We're too easily to score against now and it's hurting us badly.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VinnieChase84 on December 22, 2019, 05:16:21 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on December 22, 2019, 05:14:01 PM
Rafa would get us very well organised.

That's what we need, grind out a couple of 1-0s or 0-0s to get some points on the board. We're too easily to score against now and it's hurting us badly.

Rafa and purslow hate each other. Unless their relationship has been worked on then this won’t happen in a million years
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on December 22, 2019, 05:16:38 PM
Villa bigger than Lyon?  I wish.  New stadium capacity 60,000.  Squad value £344 million.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: DB on December 22, 2019, 05:21:28 PM
Quote from: Rudy65 on December 22, 2019, 05:10:22 PM
Quote from: Nii Lamptey on December 22, 2019, 04:40:07 PM
Benitez for me.
High profile manager who's been there, done that. He even got Newcastle promoted with Ashley as his chairman?!

Got them relegated as well. Bruce has performed better this season than Rafa last year

Didn’t he join then quite late on the season they went down? Also, he would have a window with some cash rather than tight financial restraints under Ashley. But let’s hope it doesn't’ come to that and Smith can turn it around starting Boxing Day.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 22, 2019, 05:25:52 PM
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on December 22, 2019, 05:16:21 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on December 22, 2019, 05:14:01 PM
Rafa would get us very well organised.

That's what we need, grind out a couple of 1-0s or 0-0s to get some points on the board. We're too easily to score against now and it's hurting us badly.

Rafa and purslow hate each other. Unless their relationship has been worked on then this won’t happen in a million years

Yes that is a problem and probably rules him out.

Still I'd feel very confident of staying up with a manager of his calibre at the helm so up to the club to be able to attract a manager like that who isn't years past his best like Houllier.

Something like that will tell me if these owners have more nous than Lerner as his managerial appointments were incredibly underwhelming.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 22, 2019, 05:27:20 PM
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on December 22, 2019, 05:16:21 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on December 22, 2019, 05:14:01 PM
Rafa would get us very well organised.

That's what we need, grind out a couple of 1-0s or 0-0s to get some points on the board. We're too easily to score against now and it's hurting us badly.

Rafa and purslow hate each other. Unless their relationship has been worked on then this won’t happen in a million years

I don't know if it's hate but there is no love lost.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2010/jun/25/rafael-benitez-christain-purslow-liverpool-exit
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on December 22, 2019, 05:33:18 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on December 22, 2019, 05:27:20 PM
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on December 22, 2019, 05:16:21 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on December 22, 2019, 05:14:01 PM
Rafa would get us very well organised.

That's what we need, grind out a couple of 1-0s or 0-0s to get some points on the board. We're too easily to score against now and it's hurting us badly.

Rafa and purslow hate each other. Unless their relationship has been worked on then this won’t happen in a million years

I don't know if it's hate but there is no love lost.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2010/jun/25/rafael-benitez-christain-purslow-liverpool-exit

So Purslow appointed Hodgson?  Wow.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on December 22, 2019, 05:39:22 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on December 22, 2019, 05:06:00 PM
Quote from: Ian J on December 22, 2019, 04:43:39 PM
Maybe just maybe Aston Villa as a club is just so much bigger than Norwich, Lyon and Brentford. These fellas come in and the size of the task just consumes them.
I don't think it's the size of the club but I think you're spot on about it being the size of the task.  We appointed a succession of poor managers under, at times, erratic ownership and that went on for so long that the scale of the rebuilding job at Villa just kept getting bigger and bigger.  It's hard to believe that anyone seriously thought the likes of Sherwood, Garde, and Di Matteo were going to turn us around.
Ok that’s probably more likely, not so much the size of the club but the size of the task. Saying that though I’ve heard interviews with players and managers who have not quite grasped the size of the club and history until signed.

As regards people believing in people turning us around with me it’s been a blinkered or blind hope that they will do it!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nii Lamptey on December 22, 2019, 06:09:24 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on December 22, 2019, 05:33:18 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on December 22, 2019, 05:27:20 PM
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on December 22, 2019, 05:16:21 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on December 22, 2019, 05:14:01 PM
Rafa would get us very well organised.

That's what we need, grind out a couple of 1-0s or 0-0s to get some points on the board. We're too easily to score against now and it's hurting us badly.

Rafa and purslow hate each other. Unless their relationship has been worked on then this won’t happen in a million years

I don't know if it's hate but there is no love lost.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2010/jun/25/rafael-benitez-christain-purslow-liverpool-exit

So Purslow appointed Hodgson?  Wow.

Wow on both counts.... Didn't realise it was Purslow who gave Benitez the boot, and secondly, that it was Purslow who appointed Hodgson! That doesn't exactly fill me with confidence for our next manager!  :S
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: London Villan on December 22, 2019, 06:16:54 PM
I’d love Roy Hodgson now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 22, 2019, 06:18:52 PM
Hadn’t Hodgson done a very decent job at Fulham, got them to a UEFA cup final or something? And had experience in Europe in Switzerland and at Inter. I don’t think it was completely outrageous. It wasn’t the best time at Liverpool but I think they had all kinds of boardroom issues going on at the time. Overall Hodgson has had a pretty decent career across loads of clubs and England.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: rougegorge on December 22, 2019, 06:20:11 PM
The Villa fan in today's Observer with the half term report gives Smith 8/10! Even allowing for the fact that it would have been written before yesterday, it's far too high a mark. He also says he'd like to see him let loose with the chequebook in January.

Given his track record on signings so far, I wouldn't. I know there are others scouting players, but the buck stops with the manager.

Also, I don't necessarily think that teams have necessarily needed to 'work us out'. The formation of 4-3-3 would be ok if the players were good Premier league quality. However the players he signed to fulfil the front 3 positions have not been good enough at this level all season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nii Lamptey on December 22, 2019, 06:21:46 PM
How old is he now though? A man of his age couldn't cope with the stresses and strains of the Villa job now. 5-10 years ago maybe - We'd be in another Houllier situation.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: garyshawsknee on December 22, 2019, 06:25:00 PM
That explains why Liverpool fans have very little time for Purslow.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 22, 2019, 06:27:06 PM
Quote from: garyshawsknee on December 22, 2019, 06:25:00 PM
That explains why Liverpool fans have very little time for Purslow.

At least Purslow has done the job before.

Tom Fox was some glorified salesman at Arsenal when we gave him the keys to the madhouse.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on December 22, 2019, 07:26:33 PM
I have to say i'm finding this thread a little bit distasteful. Dean Smith is our manager and he should be shown the respect he deserves. Yes we're going through a sticky patch but as supporters of the club we all love we should be getting behind him now just like the owners who have recently put their faith in him to the tune of a new 4 year contract. This is the place to discuss our opinions on how things have panned out so far this season but to be discussing his replacement as if it's a done deal is a tad disloyal in my view.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 22, 2019, 07:36:55 PM
Welcome to the internet.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on December 22, 2019, 07:41:54 PM
Cleverer proper than me will know the answer to this... but I’m trying to decide whether promoted teams putting sentiment aside and changing manager early works more often than not. There are good examples like Southampton, bad ones like Fulham, although you suspect the damage was done over the summer (parallels?)

Must admit I’m struggling to think of many good examples of loyalty to a promotion winning manager being rewarded. Warnock sticks in my mind.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dougs Socks on December 22, 2019, 07:49:58 PM
Dispite the Hourihane substitution, i find it hard to criticise for yesterdays gutless performance. I do however hold a fair few of our players responsible, and with that the buffoon whom scouted and recruited them. Thats where this mess lies, with summer recruitment.

Maupey and Benhrama wanted to come, Smith wanted them...we (forever what reason) baulked at the price and bought a few duds instead. Cheap buys you sod all in this league, trying to be clever and cheap buys you even less...and on top of that, they recruit a striker whom is so raw and does not even fit Smiths style of play, for a whopping 22 million!

No, Smith has his faults (all managers do), but this mess falls directly at the Door of Suso and to a lesser degree, Purslow for sanctioning it.

Massive January now, but im a little worried as to what our scouting team will be recommending :-[
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on December 22, 2019, 07:51:41 PM
Pitarch was the one who vetoed the Maupay signing, not Purslow. That is why we have ended up with Wes.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 22, 2019, 07:57:57 PM
Quote from: Legion on December 22, 2019, 07:51:41 PM
Pitarch was the one who vetoed the Maupay signing, not Purslow. That is why we have ended up with Wes.

Was it? Dean Smith is on record saying he didn’t feel he wanted to spend that kind of money on Maupay.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on December 22, 2019, 07:59:13 PM
I think it was Risso who pointed out my error as I originally thought it was Purslow.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on December 22, 2019, 08:01:23 PM
It should have been Maupay AND Wesley.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 22, 2019, 08:02:36 PM
Whoever thought that we had enough up front needs looking at.
Still does not explain Smith picking him week in week out.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 22, 2019, 08:08:20 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on December 22, 2019, 08:01:23 PM
It should have been Maupay AND Wesley.

Agreed. Or at least we should have got someone else in if Kodjia wasn’t going to feature much. I put that on Smith if the option to Maupay was on the table and he declined.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on December 22, 2019, 08:11:25 PM
Quote from: Dougs Socks on December 22, 2019, 07:49:58 PM
Dispite the Hourihane substitution, i find it hard to criticise for yesterdays gutless performance. I do however hold a fair few of our players responsible, and with that the buffoon whom scouted and recruited them. Thats where this mess lies, with summer recruitment.

Maupey and Benhrama wanted to come, Smith wanted them...we (forever what reason) baulked at the price and bought a few duds instead. Cheap buys you sod all in this league, trying to be clever and cheap buys you even less...and on top of that, they recruit a striker whom is so raw and does not even fit Smiths style of play, for a whopping 22 million!

No, Smith has his faults (all managers do), but this mess falls directly at the Door of Suso and to a lesser degree, Purslow for sanctioning it.

Massive January now, but im a little worried as to what our scouting team will be recommending :-[

We certainly weren't being cheap when it came to Matt Targett. Whoever gave that signing alone the ok needs sacking. We have a thoroughly unbalanced squad anyway. Five senior centre backs, four of which were signed last summer but no forward capable of playing in Smith's system.

No pace throughout the squad, lack of physical presence, limited top division experience and a collection of crab like midfielders.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Monty on December 22, 2019, 08:24:10 PM
Quote from: The Edge on December 22, 2019, 07:26:33 PM
I have to say i'm finding this thread a little bit distasteful. Dean Smith is our manager and he should be shown the respect he deserves. Yes we're going through a sticky patch but as supporters of the club we all love we should be getting behind him now just like the owners who have recently put their faith in him to the tune of a new 4 year contract. This is the place to discuss our opinions on how things have panned out so far this season but to be discussing his replacement as if it's a done deal is a tad disloyal in my view.

'Distasteful'? 'Disloyal'? We're talking about a whether or a football manager is up to his job, not if we should mutiny against our commanding officer.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on December 22, 2019, 08:32:31 PM
And you forget the respect he deserves.  He draws no wages you know and pays all the bills out of his own pocket.  A veritable Cardinal Newman.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 22, 2019, 08:35:22 PM
If you want loyalty, get a dog.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on December 22, 2019, 08:36:58 PM
(http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/d1/4c/db/d14cdbef473257be1b33eed5452f7392.jpg)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on December 22, 2019, 08:41:45 PM
Quote from: Legion on December 22, 2019, 08:36:58 PM
(http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/d1/4c/db/d14cdbef473257be1b33eed5452f7392.jpg)
Now that has made me chuckle - my dog,Marley is now looking at me in a  knowing way........I'm sure he is curling his paws up and making the " wanker gesture"
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on December 22, 2019, 08:47:25 PM
Quote from: Dougs Socks on December 22, 2019, 07:49:58 PM
Dispite the Hourihane substitution, i find it hard to criticise for yesterdays gutless performance. I do however hold a fair few of our players responsible, and with that the buffoon whom scouted and recruited them. Thats where this mess lies, with summer recruitment.

Maupey and Benhrama wanted to come, Smith wanted them...we (forever what reason) baulked at the price and bought a few duds instead. Cheap buys you sod all in this league, trying to be clever and cheap buys you even less...and on top of that, they recruit a striker whom is so raw and does not even fit Smiths style of play, for a whopping 22 million!

No, Smith has his faults (all managers do), but this mess falls directly at the Door of Suso and to a lesser degree, Purslow for sanctioning it.

Massive January now, but im a little worried as to what our scouting team will be recommending :-[

How do you know Dean wanted these players you mention & our CEO, board said no? You don’t know this, neither do I. What I do know, as I go home and away, is that the football has been poor & at this moment we look like we are going down, so come on Dean stop 4-3-3 and sort it out
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on December 22, 2019, 08:49:42 PM
What we do know is that plenty of us pointed out, come the start of the season, how Wesley had better come good as we had pretty much no other options up front - Davis (a non-scoring striker who is always injured and totally unproven at this level) and Kodjia (also unproven and coming off a fallow period of about a year).

Think of those goals Leicester scored against us, or if you like, the movement of Ings yesterday.

Now try and imagine that from our strikers.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on December 22, 2019, 08:50:43 PM
Quote from: brian green on December 22, 2019, 08:32:31 PM
And you forget the respect he deserves.  He draws no wages you know and pays all the bills out of his own pocket.  A veritable Cardinal Newman.
So you don't think the manager of Aston Villa deserves our respect?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on December 22, 2019, 08:52:33 PM
I’m struggling to think of a recent manager who’s had as much respect off fans than Dean Smith, including in this thread.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Richard E on December 22, 2019, 08:55:54 PM
Respect is not the same as immunity from criticism, or from the boot.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on December 22, 2019, 08:57:11 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on December 22, 2019, 08:49:42 PM
What we do know is that plenty of us pointed out, come the start of the season, how Wesley had better come good as we had pretty much no other options up front - Davis (a non-scoring striker who is always injured and totally unproven at this level) and Kodjia (also unproven and coming off a fallow period of about a year).

Think of those goals Leicester scored against us, or if you like, the movement of Ings yesterday.

Now try and imagine that from our strikers.

Exactly, exactly, spot on. I want Dean to do well, just not sure it will get any better. Hope I’m wrong
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on December 22, 2019, 09:06:45 PM
Looking back to his appointment .....
If he hadn't have been a guy with links to the Villa would some of us been underwhelmed ?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on December 22, 2019, 09:08:40 PM
Right choice at the time to replace Bruce. He went through a bad phase this time last year. We came out of it and got promoted against all odds. Do you want to bet against us?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on December 22, 2019, 09:12:13 PM
Quote from: Legion on December 22, 2019, 09:08:40 PM
Right choice at the time to replace Bruce. He went through a bad phase this time last year. We came out of it and got promoted against all odds. Do you want to bet against us?
He just isn't getting the 110% from the squad
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on December 22, 2019, 09:41:13 PM
The manager of Aston Villa is entitled to that which all employees are entitled.  He is paid (very well) to do a job.  Because it is his work, not his hobby or his unpaid pastime, if the standard of his work falls short of expected standards he/she must be held to account. Lawyer, plumber, brain surgeon, it is essential that the competent thrive and that the incompetent are found more suitable, less demanding work.  Respect is earned not demanded.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on December 22, 2019, 09:42:12 PM
Quote from: Legion on December 22, 2019, 09:08:40 PM
Right choice at the time to replace Bruce. He went through a bad phase this time last year. We came out of it and got promoted against all odds. Do you want to bet against us?

That’s ok, but this time last year we were in the Championship & had Jack to come back from injury, this time we are in the Premiership & Jack is playing!!! Question is, is Dean the right man now?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Footy-Vill on December 22, 2019, 09:58:54 PM
Firstly it's on the record and very recent that after the 4 year contract
Dean is at the heart of our rebuilding process and that is the rationale behind his contract extension


Purslow, CEO clearly stated “The Board is delighted that Dean has signed a new four-year contract which puts him at the heart of the Club’s long term rebuilding plans"

Maybe there is an issue at this time in new players adapting to Smiths methods. Because people Deano isn't going anywhere .
Smith is here to stay and is here to re establish Villa as a premier league club.

Dean Smith methods and philosophy seemingly taking time for new players  to adapt.
Really it's too soon to be saying Smith isn't up to grade because he has had a group of new players having to quickly take on his way of playing.
I think if Smith with his secure 4 years deal can go on like Chris Wilder (he's had 2-3 years or so) as with a settled team at the Villa  this club will be pushing some and gaining plaudits.
I mean at times already this season Villa have been quite rightly acknowledged as a decent team and players who have performed well.
I certainly think Dean Smith would be fine

My concern is how much this Suso character is able to pick out the calibre of player for Smith.
As well as this the whole strategy of not buying finished articles and players to grow value as assets mean more of a lean on business than football matters.
Dean Smith is a football coach . His job is to develop the players and coach the team.
That's the structure our football club.

Dean Smith is 100% committed and is more than enthusiastic to get this club going forward.
And hes backed by the club
Now it's the Villa support who need to be 100% behind him rather than turn with the first bump in road.
The players will get there and are moving in right direction.
So to those solely blaming him isn't quite the case when a recruitment strategy is not 100% his domain.
He can suggest that players won't be up to his methods or levels and even though he's required to develop and grow players there is the finance to bring in more suitable players for his system if difficulties occur.

Pure folly to thing Dean is going anywhere .
He's the most suitable man for our great club
And for me I think we only drive us forward.
He wants to succeed and will only make players and this club better.
Let's have some patience shall we.

Love you Deano! I don't blame him for anything !! I think he's just superb !
Quality man
Merry Xmas everyone.


Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: passport1 on December 22, 2019, 10:31:09 PM
I have to say that when things were pear shaped in the past  our lack of a modern structure was regulaly cited eg no director of football , a manager instead of the modern head coach. Its intersting that now that we have all that the fault apparently lies with the director of football recruiting the wrong players.

Personally I think we have been a shithouse of a club for so long that no one can remember what it takes to be a successful club. It is thalt lack of  a ongoing history of success that leads to us flip flopping from one half baked plan to another.

Maybe one day we will stumble on a successful formula but probably  more by accident than design.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on December 22, 2019, 10:42:00 PM
Quote from: passport1 on December 22, 2019, 10:31:09 PM
I have to say that when things were pear shaped in the past  our lack of a modern structure was regulaly cited eg no director of football , a manager instead of the modern head coach. Its intersting that now that we have all that the fault apparently lies with the director of football recruiting the wrong players.

Personally I think we have been a shithouse of a club for so long that no one can remember what it takes to be a successful club. It is thalt lack of  a ongoing history of success that leads to us flip flopping from one half baked plan to another.

Maybe one day we will stumble on a successful formula but probably  more by accident than design.

The structural point is a good one. Structures are made of people.

DS has proved, to an extent, that he can do his part by coaching the team he inherited from mid-table to promotion. Pitarch has had one summer to recruit a number of players to improve us to the extent that we survive/thrive in the PL. I'm not sure he's done his bit yet. A lot of the new players look well short of the required standard.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Luke8 on December 22, 2019, 10:51:21 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on December 22, 2019, 08:49:42 PM
What we do know is that plenty of us pointed out, come the start of the season, how Wesley had better come good as we had pretty much no other options up front - Davis (a non-scoring striker who is always injured and totally unproven at this level) and Kodjia (also unproven and coming off a fallow period of about a year).

Think of those goals Leicester scored against us, or if you like, the movement of Ings yesterday.

Now try and imagine that from our strikers.

Regarding your second point, I reckon there is a good chance that if you swap Wesley for Long or Iheanacho, he would have had a pretty decent time of it against our defence.

These are various other factors that are compounding this, but we are currently stuck in a rut where we are playing a system in a way that leaves us far too open and vulnerable defensively and devoid of ideas and creativity in attack.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on December 22, 2019, 11:11:28 PM
Quote from: Vill I An on December 22, 2019, 09:58:54 PM
Firstly it's on the record and very recent that after the 4 year contract
Dean is at the heart of our rebuilding process and that is the rationale behind his contract extension


Purslow, CEO clearly stated “The Board is delighted that Dean has signed a new four-year contract which puts him at the heart of the Club’s long term rebuilding plans"

Maybe there is an issue at this time in new players adapting to Smiths methods. Because people Deano isn't going anywhere .
Smith is here to stay and is here to re establish Villa as a premier league club.

Dean Smith methods and philosophy seemingly taking time for new players  to adapt.
Really it's too soon to be saying Smith isn't up to grade because he has had a group of new players having to quickly take on his way of playing.
I think if Smith with his secure 4 years deal can go on like Chris Wilder (he's had 2-3 years or so) as with a settled team at the Villa  this club will be pushing some and gaining plaudits.
I mean at times already this season Villa have been quite rightly acknowledged as a decent team and players who have performed well.
I certainly think Dean Smith would be fine

My concern is how much this Suso character is able to pick out the calibre of player for Smith.
As well as this the whole strategy of not buying finished articles and players to grow value as assets mean more of a lean on business than football matters.
Dean Smith is a football coach . His job is to develop the players and coach the team.
That's the structure our football club.

Dean Smith is 100% committed and is more than enthusiastic to get this club going forward.
And hes backed by the club
Now it's the Villa support who need to be 100% behind him rather than turn with the first bump in road.
The players will get there and are moving in right direction.
So to those solely blaming him isn't quite the case when a recruitment strategy is not 100% his domain.
He can suggest that players won't be up to his methods or levels and even though he's required to develop and grow players there is the finance to bring in more suitable players for his system if difficulties occur.

Pure folly to thing Dean is going anywhere .
He's the most suitable man for our great club
And for me I think we only drive us forward.
He wants to succeed and will only make players and this club better.
Let's have some patience shall we.

Love you Deano! I don't blame him for anything !! I think he's just superb !
Quality man
Merry Xmas everyone.
Excellent post. Well said.
Merry Christmas
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tomd2103 on December 23, 2019, 12:13:28 AM
Quote from: brontebilly on December 22, 2019, 08:11:25 PM
Quote from: Dougs Socks on December 22, 2019, 07:49:58 PM
Dispite the Hourihane substitution, i find it hard to criticise for yesterdays gutless performance. I do however hold a fair few of our players responsible, and with that the buffoon whom scouted and recruited them. Thats where this mess lies, with summer recruitment.

Maupey and Benhrama wanted to come, Smith wanted them...we (forever what reason) baulked at the price and bought a few duds instead. Cheap buys you sod all in this league, trying to be clever and cheap buys you even less...and on top of that, they recruit a striker whom is so raw and does not even fit Smiths style of play, for a whopping 22 million!

No, Smith has his faults (all managers do), but this mess falls directly at the Door of Suso and to a lesser degree, Purslow for sanctioning it.

Massive January now, but im a little worried as to what our scouting team will be recommending :-[

We certainly weren't being cheap when it came to Matt Targett. Whoever gave that signing alone the ok needs sacking. We have a thoroughly unbalanced squad anyway. Five senior centre backs, four of which were signed last summer but no forward capable of playing in Smith's system.

No pace throughout the squad, lack of physical presence, limited top division experience and a collection of crab like midfielders.

Watching it unfold yesterday, it was the lack of experience that stood out.  Heaton aside, virtually none of the of the others have considerable top flight experience and it is beginning to show.  I go back to the Houllier season where we had quite a few injuries around this period of time and dropped into the relegation places in the early New Year period.  As well as signing Darren Bent, what really stuck out for the remainder of hat season was the return of the likes Young, Reo-Coker and Petrov, who although were not world beaters, saw us through games with their experience. 

After the Norwich game, it looked like we were looking upwards rather than down at the relegation places, but all that is out of the window now.  If someone offered us all finishing 17th on goal difference at the end of the season, we would snap their hands off.  To get there, we need some experience in the side alongside some of these younger players.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on December 23, 2019, 07:41:36 AM
Bringing in a couple of players is a must - they may not work out of course, but not bringing in anyone will certainly lead us to relegation.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rico on December 23, 2019, 08:51:38 AM
If Dean Smith was to be relieved of his duties I'm pretty sure that the first thing his replacement would do is consign the 433 system to the scrap heap, and go 442 or 532. It's patently obvious to everyone that we are leaking goals like a bloody drain, so we need to sort that out asap. If we start the Norwich match in 433 then I suspect we'll lose, and in that case Dean will deserve to go.

Some of the older fans will probably remember this. When Graham Taylor was our boss, first time around, I seem to recall us struggling that first season back in the top flight. The following season i think we started poorly again, and were struggling to get the system right. Then injuries forced Taylor into changing the system, and if memory serves we switched to 532 and Ian Ormondroyd, who to be quite honest was looking like a complete and utter duffer was switched from striker to winger and the rest is history. From relegation candidates to runners up. So my point is that like many others have said already ditch 433. It's not working. Try something, anything else. If not then thanks for getting us promoted. Close the door on your way out!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on December 23, 2019, 09:22:09 AM
Just a thought ......could Smith be under instructions to player Wesley week in week out?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 23, 2019, 09:26:24 AM
Wouldn't surprise me.  I think the set up is all wrong.  We've got Pitarch as DoF, but being brutally honest the majority of his acquisitions haven't worked out at all.  He (Pitarch) hasn't been at the last 4 or 5 games, so not sure what's going on there.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on December 23, 2019, 09:26:55 AM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on December 23, 2019, 09:22:09 AM
Just a thought ......could Smith be under instructions to player Wesley week in week out?

No, I wouldn't have thought so and I can't think of any reason why.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on December 23, 2019, 09:41:22 AM
Quote from: Rico on December 23, 2019, 08:51:38 AM
If Dean Smith was to be relieved of his duties I'm pretty sure that the first thing his replacement would do is consign the 433 system to the scrap heap, and go 442 or 532. It's patently obvious to everyone that we are leaking goals like a bloody drain, so we need to sort that out asap. If we start the Norwich match in 433 then I suspect we'll lose, and in that case Dean will deserve to go.

Some of the older fans will probably remember this. When Graham Taylor was our boss, first time around, I seem to recall us struggling that first season back in the top flight. The following season i think we started poorly again, and were struggling to get the system right. Then injuries forced Taylor into changing the system, and if memory serves we switched to 532 and Ian Ormondroyd, who to be quite honest was looking like a complete and utter duffer was switched from striker to winger and the rest is history. From relegation candidates to runners up. So my point is that like many others have said already ditch 433. It's not working. Try something, anything else. If not then thanks for getting us promoted. Close the door on your way out!
Ahh Ian Ormondroyd the worlds tallest winger. Happy days. It's painfully obvious that we need to change things. A more mobile front line is paramount if we're to survive. Make it so please Dean & co.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: darren woolley on December 23, 2019, 10:35:59 AM
I'm a Dean Smith fan and I have faith in him and believe what he's trying to do Saturday's loss to Southampton was gutting with Marvelous making a mistake to gift them a goal and El Ghazi not really doing anything to stop that header and Matty Targett letting Ings get a tap in when he should have got to the ball first the players need to step up and make it more difficult for the opposition players it was too easy for them on Saturday.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on December 23, 2019, 10:41:17 AM
Quote from: Risso on December 23, 2019, 09:26:24 AM
Wouldn't surprise me.  I think the set up is all wrong.  We've got Pitarch as DoF, but being brutally honest the majority of his acquisitions haven't worked out at all.  He (Pitarch) hasn't been at the last 4 or 5 games, so not sure what's going on there.

I suspect he's out scouting replacements.

I think the signings are good and there are definite qualities in all of the players we've bought. However, the issue really is having some experience and someone who can steady the ship. They are the players that everyone wants of course.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on December 23, 2019, 10:50:37 AM
Yep the signings really do feel very 2015. I can really see trez for example being a cracking player for someone else in a year or two or when we’re back in the championship
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TonyD on December 23, 2019, 10:52:09 AM
Yes.  Saturday did seem all very Remi Garde. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Richard E on December 23, 2019, 10:54:56 AM
Quote from: themossman on December 23, 2019, 10:50:37 AM
Yep the signings really do feel very 2015. I can really see trez for example being a cracking player for someone else in a year or two or when we’re back in the championship

Depends who is in League 2 or the National League in a year or two.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on December 23, 2019, 10:56:59 AM
Quote from: themossman on December 23, 2019, 10:50:37 AM
Yep the signings really do feel very 2015. I can really see trez for example being a cracking player for someone else in a year or two or when we’re back in the championship
Trez, Marvelous and Doug are going to be very good players in the future and I do hope that’s for us.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 23, 2019, 11:26:04 AM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on December 23, 2019, 09:22:09 AM
Just a thought ......could Smith be under instructions to player Wesley week in week out?
Sometimes managers play a player they did not want to make a point.
It is baffling why he has persevered with Wes when the rest of the world could see he needed a change or rest.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ktvillan on December 23, 2019, 11:29:40 AM
The players bought in 2015 all looked like duds for us but quite a few have gone on to show they are decent players - Veretout, Ayew, Amavi and just look at Traore now.  Some of this year's crop may well turn out to be decent but at the moment they all seem to be lacking - pace is the big thing that's missing for me, but other things stand out.  Trezeguet has a bit of pace but zero composure especially in front of goal- I'm afraid I think he's shit.  AEG has some ability but goes missing 90% of the time.  Jota is very skilful but slower than continental drift and lightweight.  Targett isn't a great defender and the only other option at LB can't attack.     

The last few games though there has been a noticeable lack of effort - our pressing has been almost non-existent, and that is vital when playing a high defensive line.  That has to be Smith's responsibility, as well as the apparent lack of fitness and stamina.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 23, 2019, 11:31:02 AM
Quote from: Ian J on December 23, 2019, 10:56:59 AM
Quote from: themossman on December 23, 2019, 10:50:37 AM
Yep the signings really do feel very 2015. I can really see trez for example being a cracking player for someone else in a year or two or when we’re back in the championship
Trez, Marvelous and Doug are going to be very good players in the future and I do hope that’s for us.

I've been happy with Engles and Gullibert at various points of the season. Ironcially given Ming's loss of form, his absence is really hurting the other CBs. When Long did Bjorn for pace on Saturday there was no Mings coming round on cover to bail him out.

The only two summer signings I don't rate and think are massive wastes of money are Targett and of course Wesley. The rest need some help and experience.

Maybe it's a little different for keepers but Heaton is a solid premier league proven player and bar the odd game he's been good for us this season. More please.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: achilles on December 23, 2019, 11:37:08 AM
Quote from: ktvillan on December 23, 2019, 11:29:40 AM
The players bought in 2015 all looked like duds for us but quite a few have gone on to show they are decent players - Veretout, Ayew, Amavi and just look at Traore now.  Some of this year's crop may well turn out to be decent but at the moment they all seem to be lacking - pace is the big thing that's missing for me, but other things stand out.  Trezeguet has a bit of pace but zero composure especially in front of goal- I'm afraid I think he's shit.  AEG has some ability but goes missing 90% of the time.  Jota is very skilful but slower than continental drift and lightweight.  Targett isn't a great defender and the only other option at LB can't attack.     

The last few games though there has been a noticeable lack of effort - our pressing has been almost non-existent, and that is vital when playing a high defensive line.  That has to be Smith's responsibility, as well as the apparent lack of fitness and stamina.



Apparently Saints ran 5km more than us on Saturday, make of that what you will?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on December 23, 2019, 11:44:26 AM
As was said in the post match thread, Dean Smith is an attack-minded coach.

He just hasn't the attackers and therefore our defense and midfield get overrun.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Luke8 on December 23, 2019, 11:54:23 AM
Quote from: Drummond on December 23, 2019, 11:44:26 AM
As was said in the post match thread, Dean Smith is an attack-minded coach.

He just hasn't the attackers and therefore our defense and midfield get overrun.

I don’t disagree, but surely that is where Smith has to then be doing more to help the players out, rather than persist with a system that is clearly not getting the best out of the players. He can change formations without having to sacrifice his attacking principals.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Luke8 on December 23, 2019, 12:03:09 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on December 23, 2019, 11:31:02 AM


I've been happy with Engles and Gullibert at various points of the season. Ironcially given Ming's loss of form, his absence is really hurting the other CBs. When Long did Bjorn for pace on Saturday there was no Mings coming round on cover to bail him out.

The only two summer signings I don't rate and think are massive wastes of money are Targett and of course Wesley. The rest need some help and experience.


I don’t actually think either are poor players. I think they are two (of a number of) players where if we played in a slightly difference way we could get more from them by providing them with a little more help.

Three at the back would allow Targett to offer an attacking outlet while not massively exposing him defensively like we currently are.

As for Wes, he might be good, he might not, I’m honestly not sure. Mainly because he has been so isolated recently -  we aren’t getting people any where near as close to him as we were at the start of the season. Mentioned it in another thread, but I reckon if  he had been upfront for either of the three teams with have just played and I think he would probably have done alright.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 23, 2019, 12:06:26 PM
Struggling to see what attributes Wesley has that would make him a success anywhere else. No pace, can’t beat a man, crap in the air, no decent shot on him. Hardly set the world alight at his previous side.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Bad English on December 23, 2019, 12:16:35 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 23, 2019, 12:06:26 PM
Struggling to see what attributes Wesley has that would make him a success anywhere else. No pace, can’t beat a man, crap in the air, no decent shot on him. Hardly set the world alight at his previous side.
You forgot 'can't trap a ball' and 'can't stay on his feet'.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Richard E on December 23, 2019, 12:20:23 PM
Quote from: Bad English on December 23, 2019, 12:16:35 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 23, 2019, 12:06:26 PM
Struggling to see what attributes Wesley has that would make him a success anywhere else. No pace, can’t beat a man, crap in the air, no decent shot on him. Hardly set the world alight at his previous side.
You forgot 'can't trap a ball' and 'can't stay on his feet'.

Yes, but apart from all that...
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Bad English on December 23, 2019, 12:23:32 PM
Quote from: Richard E on December 23, 2019, 12:20:23 PM
Quote from: Bad English on December 23, 2019, 12:16:35 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 23, 2019, 12:06:26 PM
Struggling to see what attributes Wesley has that would make him a success anywhere else. No pace, can’t beat a man, crap in the air, no decent shot on him. Hardly set the world alight at his previous side.
You forgot 'can't trap a ball' and 'can't stay on his feet'.

Yes, but apart from all that...
Also, his name has a W but it is not even a Scrabble FFS!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: West Derby Villan on December 23, 2019, 01:53:59 PM
Quote from: Drummond on December 23, 2019, 11:44:26 AM
As was said in the post match thread, Dean Smith is an attack-minded coach.

He just hasn't the attackers and therefore our defense and midfield get overrun.

Agree, we make it to easy for the opposition. I really want Dean Smith to succeed but I'm not sure if the owners will have the patience
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on December 23, 2019, 02:01:17 PM
The manager is not going to get sacked any time soon.

How long ago did they give him a new contract and talk about how he is absolutely integral to the 'project'? Two weeks or so?

I don't think he'd get the bullet if we went down.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on December 23, 2019, 02:07:36 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on December 23, 2019, 02:01:17 PM
The manager is not going to get sacked any time soon.

How long ago did they give him a new contract and talk about how he is absolutely integral to the 'project'? Two weeks or so?

I don't think he'd get the bullet if we went down.


Hard to say. Until our 'new' owners sack a manager for the first time we can't guess their patience levels. Do we know if either of them or Purslow have a large house in Four Oaks where they might invite managers for 'a walk around the garden and fish pond'?

Bruce was a bit different as he wasn't their appointment in the first place.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 23, 2019, 02:08:55 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on December 23, 2019, 02:01:17 PM
The manager is not going to get sacked any time soon.

How long ago did they give him a new contract and talk about how he is absolutely integral to the 'project'? Two weeks or so?

I don't think he'd get the bullet if we went down.
If he loses against Norwich and they believe he has lost the players then I think he will be gone.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on December 23, 2019, 02:10:42 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on December 23, 2019, 02:01:17 PM
The manager is not going to get sacked any time soon.

How long ago did they give him a new contract and talk about how he is absolutely integral to the 'project'? Two weeks or so?

I don't think he'd get the bullet if we went down.

If that was to happen it would make me question not just Smith but also the owners and the credibility of this "project".
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mike on December 23, 2019, 02:31:37 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on December 23, 2019, 02:10:42 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on December 23, 2019, 02:01:17 PM
The manager is not going to get sacked any time soon.

How long ago did they give him a new contract and talk about how he is absolutely integral to the 'project'? Two weeks or so?

I don't think he'd get the bullet if we went down.

If that was to happen it would make me question not just Smith but also the owners and the credibility of this "project".

I think they viewed getting promoted as an unexpected bonus which they weren’t prepared for because we bought a billion players with only Mings  as a stand out. Most of the rest seem like targets that we had in mind to buy with the Jack and SJM money. So next season, we might have the Championship team they were anticipating for this year.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 23, 2019, 02:43:12 PM
They would have fallen foul of FFP if we had stayed down so not sure how much would have been spent without the PLmoney
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on December 23, 2019, 03:21:12 PM
I actually rate trezeguet, nakamba, all our new defenders except Targett, also think luiz will become a good player. We’ve just fallen in the trap of signing too many players who are a year or two off being genuinely useful in the PL without diversifying, exactly like we did in the Sherwood-Garde era.

Heaton is actually a really good example. Just a low risk, oven ready player at this level, has slotted in perfectly. If we’d signed the central midfield equivalent of him we’d look like a much better team, certainly a smarter and more consistent, team.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 23, 2019, 03:36:45 PM
I think Kalvin Phillips would have been a great signing.  OK still on the young side, but probably Leeds' best player last year, and well suited to the English game.  Him and Maupay instead of Nakamba/Luiz and Wesley, and we'd be miles clear of where we are now I reckon.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on December 23, 2019, 04:23:28 PM
Is 'I agree with Clampy' the new 'I agree with Nick?'
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: algy on December 23, 2019, 04:24:52 PM
Quote from: Damo70 on December 23, 2019, 02:07:36 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on December 23, 2019, 02:01:17 PM
The manager is not going to get sacked any time soon.

How long ago did they give him a new contract and talk about how he is absolutely integral to the 'project'? Two weeks or so?

I don't think he'd get the bullet if we went down.

Hard to say. Until our 'new' owners sack a manager for the first time we can't guess their patience levels. Do we know if either of them or Purslow have a large house in Four Oaks where they might invite managers for 'a walk around the garden and fish pond'?

Bruce was a bit different as he wasn't their appointment in the first place.

Looks like they're at least prepared to support him at the moment - more transfer activity expected: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50894893
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on December 23, 2019, 04:33:11 PM
I believe it's the right thing to do.

Though I understand why others would completely disagree.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on December 23, 2019, 04:33:51 PM
Quote from: Drummond on December 23, 2019, 04:33:11 PM
I believe it's the right thing to do.

Though I understand why others would completely disagree.

Same.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on December 23, 2019, 04:42:26 PM
We really should have gone all out for Gary Cahill.  He would be an immense leader in this side.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 23, 2019, 04:45:12 PM
Quote from: Drummond on December 23, 2019, 04:33:11 PM
I believe it's the right thing to do.

Though I understand why others would completely disagree.

The next two games are obviously huge for him.  Two wins and things should look a bit healthier and would give us momentum going into the transfer window.  A win and a draw not the end of the world.  Anything less though, and two defeats especially, are they really going to want to throw good money after bad and back a manager who'd lost 6 in a row and was a minimum of 6 points from safety?  Big call that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on December 23, 2019, 04:57:27 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 23, 2019, 04:45:12 PM
Quote from: Drummond on December 23, 2019, 04:33:11 PM
I believe it's the right thing to do.

Though I understand why others would completely disagree.

The next two games are obviously huge for him.  Two wins and things should look a bit healthier and would give us momentum going into the transfer window.  A win and a draw not the end of the world.  Anything less though, and two defeats especially, are they really going to want to throw good money after bad and back a manager who'd lost 6 in a row and was a minimum of 6 points from safety?  Big call that.

Can't disagree. But I hope they do support him whatever. Back him, back themselves.

I just hope things don't turn toxic from the stands.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 23, 2019, 05:13:43 PM
Backing a manager in those circumstances (after two more defeats) would be disastrous I reckon.  Things would turn toxic very quickly.  I don't see any sort of managerial genius in Smith that would make him worth sticking with if he took us down at the first attempt.  We'd lose the few good players we have like Jack, McGinn and Heaton, and be stuck with the overpriced non-performers like Wesley and Trezeguet.  Not much to look forward to there.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on December 23, 2019, 05:16:23 PM
Quote from: Drummond on December 23, 2019, 04:33:11 PM
I believe it's the right thing to do.

Though I understand why others would completely disagree.
Hi Drummond I  want the guy to succeed as much as anyone but as Risso says it's a massive decision to have to take -relegation would be a huge blow for the club and fans in particular
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 23, 2019, 05:21:58 PM
I don’t think it’s a binary thing. If we get relegated having played really well for the remainder of the season and just missing out on survival he should stay. If we get relegated having continued to put in displays like we did at the weekend then he should be sacked.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on December 23, 2019, 05:21:59 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 23, 2019, 05:13:43 PM
Backing a manager in those circumstances (after two more defeats) would be disastrous I reckon.  Things would turn toxic very quickly.  I don't see any sort of managerial genius in Smith that would make him worth sticking with if he took us down at the first attempt.  We'd lose the few good players we have like Jack, McGinn and Heaton, and be stuck with the overpriced non-performers like Wesley and Trezeguet.  Not much to look forward to there.

I think McGinn, Grealish and Mings would go. The rest I'm not so sure about, which is telling in itself I guess.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on December 23, 2019, 05:40:43 PM
We're going to spend ALL THE MONIES!1 instead.

Fair enough.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on December 23, 2019, 05:54:35 PM
I don’t necessarily mind him staying if we buy a few luxury players to suit his very specific tactics. It’s an expensive way to fix the problem and it’s absurd that we’re buying players IN JANUARY to plug gaping holes in the only formation he’s prepared to try, but it’s better than nothing.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on December 23, 2019, 06:07:33 PM
Replacing Mings and SJM shouldn't  too difficult however losing Jack would leave a massive hole in the team and deflate the fans
Never seen my club as a yo yo team ......worse times yes, but I thought that the new owners were the real deal and having us thinking big ....now I'm doubting that
Having said that its their money on the line and its in their interests to get   it right
For the record I'd forsake attractive, attacking football for a pragmatic approach scraping points to get us to safety - this season was always going to be about survival - at the moment we are not on target to achieve that - drastic measures are required
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KevinGage on December 23, 2019, 06:12:38 PM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on December 23, 2019, 04:42:26 PM
We really should have gone all out for Gary Cahill.  He would be an immense leader in this side.

We offered. But apparently he wanted to be nearer to his new pile in Surrey.

Doesn't appear to deter Terry.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Moose on December 23, 2019, 06:20:40 PM
We have to stay up, relegation will be a disaster. All of the planning from those running the club will be wasted if Smith takes us down, which currently looks probable. Villa don't normally do knee-jerk reactions to managers failing - I think this is what we need to do now. There are better, more experienced coaches and managers out there. If our owners are serious about us becoming a top flight club challenging for honours, then they have to act now or risk being placed with Randy Lerner's also-rans.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ktvillan on December 23, 2019, 06:21:03 PM
Quote from: mike on December 23, 2019, 02:31:37 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on December 23, 2019, 02:10:42 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on December 23, 2019, 02:01:17 PM
The manager is not going to get sacked any time soon.

How long ago did they give him a new contract and talk about how he is absolutely integral to the 'project'? Two weeks or so?

I don't think he'd get the bullet if we went down.

If that was to happen it would make me question not just Smith but also the owners and the credibility of this "project".

I think they viewed getting promoted as an unexpected bonus which they weren’t prepared for because we bought a billion players with only Mings  as a stand out. Most of the rest seem like targets that we had in mind to buy with the Jack and SJM money. So next season, we might have the Championship team they were anticipating for this year.

I thought similar, the signings  have a look about them as if made with half an eye on being back in the Championship next year.  Which might also explain the contract extension, maybe they see us struggling this year but want Smith to bring us up again if we go down.  Problem with that is Smith's shortcomings and limitations are becoming very plain and without Grealish I'm not convinced he'd be able to get us back up.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on December 23, 2019, 06:37:10 PM
Quote from: ktvillan on December 23, 2019, 06:21:03 PM
I thought similar, the signings  have a look about them as if made with half an eye on being back in the Championship next year.  Which might also explain the contract extension, maybe they see us struggling this year but want Smith to bring us up again if we go down. 
If that's what they did it's barking mad.  Go up, buy players for the Championship, get relegated, try again.

Why not buy players for the Premier League and stay up?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 23, 2019, 06:44:25 PM
A £22m Brazilian record signing doesn't scream "planning for relegation" to me.  If that's what they were intending, surely they'd have kept the likes of Whelan and Hogan.  The fact that Wesley has turned out to be awful wasn't intentional, just a complete failure of scouting and planning.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on December 23, 2019, 06:48:11 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 23, 2019, 06:44:25 PM
A £22m Brazilian record signing doesn't scream "planning for relegation" to me.  If that's what they were intending, surely they'd have kept the likes of Whelan and Hogan.  The fact that Wesley has turned out to be awful wasn't intentional, just a complete failure of scouting and planning.
I wonder who his agent is and how much of the £22m went in his arse pocket ;)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ktvillan on December 23, 2019, 06:52:51 PM
Agreed it would be daft but a lot of the signing look more Championship level than PL, but that could just be bad scouting and coaching.  £22m isn't that much these days, we could have wasted double that on Joelinton.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 23, 2019, 07:10:59 PM
Quote from: ktvillan on December 23, 2019, 06:52:51 PM
Agreed it would be daft but a lot of the signing look more Championship level than PL, but that could just be bad scouting and coaching.  £22m isn't that much these days, we could have wasted double that on Joelinton.

Other teams wasting money isn't that much of a defence though.  And £22m is still a fair old whack, it's more than Danny Ings, Lys Mousset and Neil Maupay cost.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on December 23, 2019, 07:14:42 PM
How can you be a "bad" scout?  A pair of eyes a brain and a pocket calculator is all you need.  Give a potential purchase a points rating like you have buying a horse.  Age, fitness, speed, attitude, ability in tbe air, close control, no drug habit, no drink habit, girl friend who is not a porno model.  I suspect skullduggery.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on December 23, 2019, 07:21:13 PM
Quote from: ktvillan on December 23, 2019, 06:52:51 PM
Agreed it would be daft but a lot of the signing look more Championship level than PL, but that could just be bad scouting and coaching.
Yep, I think they were just bad buys.  Or rather some of them were.  Fewer kids and more experience would have been the correct way to go.  Hopefully we address that next month.  I don't want any more 'young and hungry' bollocks.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 23, 2019, 07:28:09 PM
Quote from: Vill I An on December 23, 2019, 07:25:32 PM
Dean Smith at Norwich press conference said this

On tough run of results…
"It’s four Premier League defeats and four not great performances from us.

That’s concerning, obviously, and the goals that we’ve been giving away. The performance against Southampton wasn’t great.

For 20 minutes there was nothing in the game and then we made poor mistakes for the goals, which was disappointing. Our reaction to that wasn’t as good as it should have been. We’ve spoke about that at length during training and the only way you can put that right is by working hard in training."

Dean Smith has clearly looked to address this and hope to see signs coming up.
That's good coaching.
Yes it’s great coaching.  :-[
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on December 23, 2019, 07:29:56 PM
It's not just the 4 defeats in a row; it's the 4 points from 36.  7 defeats in 9.  9 goals in 9.  20 against in 9.

It shouldn't have taken this long to figure out something wasn't working.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 23, 2019, 07:38:23 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on December 23, 2019, 07:29:56 PM
It's not just the 4 defeats in a row; it's the 4 points from 36.  7 defeats in 9.  9 goals in 9.  20 against in 9.

It shouldn't have taken this long to figure out something wasn't working.

Yep too often we start the second half terribly, too often we flake away in the last 20, and too often we lack intensity. Not good enough.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on December 23, 2019, 08:37:33 PM
I would like to think that Dean Smith is more concerned about how bad we have become than he seems to be.  If he is sleeping well at nights he shouldn't be.  I am not and I am only a Villa fan.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AVH87 on December 23, 2019, 08:57:26 PM
I do worry sometimes that owners have it in their head that they want to stick with a manager for a long time because it's easier than finding a good replacement. Not saying he should have gone, but his position should be under serious threat if we don't win either of the next 2.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on December 23, 2019, 09:09:29 PM
Quote from: Vill I An on December 23, 2019, 09:06:31 PM
So I sooner get rid of the Midfielders who don't deserve four year contracts than Dean Smith
They are the issue not Dean Smith or his system

Of course, Dean Smith has nothing to do with the midfield.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TonyD on December 23, 2019, 10:01:14 PM
I think he should have been fired after the deja vu rubbish on Saturday. 

I can’t see him changing much on Boxing Day. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: passitsideways on December 23, 2019, 10:05:19 PM
Frankly, if he takes us down, he takes us down, provided we do so fighting. I think the only way it shouldn't be the case is if it looks like the players have lost faith in his methods in such a way that a promotion challenge next season looks jeopardised.

Splurging the 100+ million obviously doesn't look great, and the returns from some of the signings don't look great so far, to say the least, but basically everyone in the summer agreed that the squad needed a massive rebuild given the release of the Dad's army and the heavy reliance on loanees, it wasn't like it was already a well-rounded squad which was then not improved upon at all.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john2710 on December 23, 2019, 10:23:23 PM
£120m on mostly unproven players at PL level was always a risk. It should have been a mixture of experience & youthfulness.

What experience does Jesus have of buying PL players? Very little I suspect.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OzVilla on December 23, 2019, 10:48:16 PM
Quote from: brian green on December 23, 2019, 08:37:33 PM
I would like to think that Dean Smith is more concerned about how bad we have become than he seems to be.  If he is sleeping well at nights he shouldn't be.  I am not and I am only a Villa fan.

Nice to know it’s not just me then Brian. I’m regularly waking up in the wee small hours and start thinking about it, we should be old enough to know better.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 23, 2019, 11:09:44 PM
Quote from: passitsideways on December 23, 2019, 10:05:19 PM
Frankly, if he takes us down, he takes us down, provided we do so fighting. I think the only way it shouldn't be the case is if it looks like the players have lost faith in his methods in such a way that a promotion challenge next season looks jeopardised.

Splurging the 100+ million obviously doesn't look great, and the returns from some of the signings don't look great so far, to say the least, but basically everyone in the summer agreed that the squad needed a massive rebuild given the release of the Dad's army and the heavy reliance on loanees, it wasn't like it was already a well-rounded squad which was then not improved upon at all.

There’s been no fight at all in the last few games. Saturday was especially gutless. The players already look like they’ve given up and don’t believe in him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on December 23, 2019, 11:28:19 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 23, 2019, 11:09:44 PM
Quote from: passitsideways on December 23, 2019, 10:05:19 PM
Frankly, if he takes us down, he takes us down, provided we do so fighting. I think the only way it shouldn't be the case is if it looks like the players have lost faith in his methods in such a way that a promotion challenge next season looks jeopardised.

Splurging the 100+ million obviously doesn't look great, and the returns from some of the signings don't look great so far, to say the least, but basically everyone in the summer agreed that the squad needed a massive rebuild given the release of the Dad's army and the heavy reliance on loanees, it wasn't like it was already a well-rounded squad which was then not improved upon at all.

There’s been no fight at all in the last few games. Saturday was especially gutless. The players already look like they’ve given up and don’t believe in him.

There is no energy or effort. They look *almost* like they're playing to get him sacked.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: passitsideways on December 23, 2019, 11:44:37 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on December 23, 2019, 11:28:19 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 23, 2019, 11:09:44 PM
Quote from: passitsideways on December 23, 2019, 10:05:19 PM
Frankly, if he takes us down, he takes us down, provided we do so fighting. I think the only way it shouldn't be the case is if it looks like the players have lost faith in his methods in such a way that a promotion challenge next season looks jeopardised.

Splurging the 100+ million obviously doesn't look great, and the returns from some of the signings don't look great so far, to say the least, but basically everyone in the summer agreed that the squad needed a massive rebuild given the release of the Dad's army and the heavy reliance on loanees, it wasn't like it was already a well-rounded squad which was then not improved upon at all.

There’s been no fight at all in the last few games. Saturday was especially gutless. The players already look like they’ve given up and don’t believe in him.

There is no energy or effort. They look *almost* like they're playing to get him sacked.

I don't think it's irretrievable at this stage, not at least without seeing what reinforcements are out there. People were absolutely saying the same things about the performances last season during the couple of months when Grealish was out.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: steamer on December 24, 2019, 12:00:47 AM
I want Dean to succeed and become a legend
I think we missed out on a couple of targets in the summer.
I hope some of this is sorted in Jan.
However, the last few games have been worrying, lack of pace, lack of (with a couple of exceptions) desire and effort
Two of our Talisman players out injured, what could a new manager do ? change tactics, kick some Ass, bring in a few experienced players ?
tough call, but going back down, losing our best players, Financial fair play etc, etc would be a disaster.
the owners have to make a statement of intent, one way or the other and stand by their decision.
Not easy being a ,Manager,Boss or owner but these guys are not pussy cats and must be used to making decisions, lets hope they make the right ones.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on December 24, 2019, 06:53:28 AM
Yes, it needs to improve but let's get these next few games out of the way and see where we are in the new year. I just hope the club do not make any rash decisions. He's got my backing.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on December 24, 2019, 07:32:31 AM
It's obvious that things are very frustrating at the moment and that improvements need to be made by all concerned (including Deano) on match day, but it's the job of owners/ceos to hire and fire. My role is to support Aston Villa whatever the scenario and that's exactly what I'll be doing. So come on Deano and the team, let's turn this around and start looking upwards again. UTV!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on December 24, 2019, 07:50:03 AM
The ship will either survive in the Premiership or sink back into the Second Division.  The Club's future is in the hands of the owners.  If they adopt the "steady as she goes" approach that has always presaged previous relegations history will inevitably repeat itself.  If the owners dig as deep into their deep pockets as FFFP allows, if they take a firm grip on Dean Smith and demand an end to blind scouting, Dean Smith come May might still have a Premiership club to manage and we might have a Premiership team to follow.

It goes without saying that I shall still be there regardless the division we are in but it would be more bearable if we are not to go down with a whimper.  Like last time.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on December 24, 2019, 08:10:33 AM
Quote from: ktvillan on December 23, 2019, 06:52:51 PM
Agreed it would be daft but a lot of the signing look more Championship level than PL, but that could just be bad scouting and coaching.  £22m isn't that much these days, we could have wasted double that on Joelinton.
Charitably, I'd say most of the signings needed more time to bed in than we had; fitness levels are unacceptably low. However, it is the apparent lack of continuous learning (amongst the players and the coaches) from our first 18 games that worries me most.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Bobby Boy on December 24, 2019, 08:35:28 AM
Quote from: Risso on December 23, 2019, 11:09:44 PM
Quote from: passitsideways on December 23, 2019, 10:05:19 PM
Frankly, if he takes us down, he takes us down, provided we do so fighting. I think the only way it shouldn't be the case is if it looks like the players have lost faith in his methods in such a way that a promotion challenge next season looks jeopardised.

Splurging the 100+ million obviously doesn't look great, and the returns from some of the signings don't look great so far, to say the least, but basically everyone in the summer agreed that the squad needed a massive rebuild given the release of the Dad's army and the heavy reliance on loanees, it wasn't like it was already a well-rounded squad which was then not improved upon at all.

There’s been no fight at all in the last few games. Saturday was especially gutless. The players already look like they’ve given up and don’t believe in him.

This is what is most concerning. It has been infuriating to watch Villa players strolling around the pitch, letting opposition players pick up the ball in midfield , turn and do what they want without a hint of a challenge or of pressure.

That's not about technical ability or footballing nous, that's about a basic desire to be competitive and professional pride.

Our players seem to have a millisecond on the ball whereas our opponents have as long as they want.

Where does that come from? Players who inherently don't have drive or passion? No, I don't think so.

Surely, this is about knowing your role and being confident in what you are being sent out to do.

Dean Smith has a fixed, immovable way of playing. What if the players don't believe that they can carry what he wants out....

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on December 24, 2019, 08:37:16 AM
Me too. Mr E, is it stubbornness or is it stupidity? My impression is that it is the former.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: algy on December 24, 2019, 09:16:13 AM
There was a long dip in form last season, wasn't there - and I'm sure I read on here that Brentford supporters said his teams were prone to long dips in form.

Obviously it's a bit concerning, but I think we're going to have to judge Dean over much longer timespans than the last half dozen games - whether they're record-breaking winning streaks, or the current form trough.

If the cause of these dips is lack of squad depth, that's relatively easy to fix. If it's that Dean isn't a great person for turning form around - we can get an assistant manager/someone who is. Again, it can be fixed.

The speed at which players and managers are being written off on here is incredible. Did people not expect the Premier league to be a bit of a step up for a team who, for most of last season, was a mid-table Championship side?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Bobby Boy on December 24, 2019, 09:25:02 AM
Quote from: algy on December 24, 2019, 09:16:13 AM
There was a long dip in form last season, wasn't there - and I'm sure I read on here that Brentford supporters said his teams were prone to long dips in form.

Obviously it's a bit concerning, but I think we're going to have to judge Dean over much longer timespans than the last half dozen games - whether they're record-breaking winning streaks, or the current form trough.

If the cause of these dips is lack of squad depth, that's relatively easy to fix. If it's that Dean isn't a great person for turning form around - we can get an assistant manager/someone who is. Again, it can be fixed.

The speed at which players and managers are being written off on here is incredible. Did people not expect the Premier league to be a bit of a step up for a team who, for most of last season, was a mid-table Championship side?

No, you are right. This was clearly going to be a tough season with every point hard won. However, the worry, particularly recently, is our lack of competitiveness, how easy we are to play against.

It's not unreasonable to point that out and to say that unless we dramatically improve our attitude and desire then we have no chance in this league.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ketzster on December 24, 2019, 09:35:55 AM
Quote from: algy on December 24, 2019, 09:16:13 AM
There was a long dip in form last season, wasn't there - and I'm sure I read on here that Brentford supporters said his teams were prone to long dips in form.

Obviously it's a bit concerning, but I think we're going to have to judge Dean over much longer timespans than the last half dozen games - whether they're record-breaking winning streaks, or the current form trough.

If the cause of these dips is lack of squad depth, that's relatively easy to fix. If it's that Dean isn't a great person for turning form around - we can get an assistant manager/someone who is. Again, it can be fixed.

The speed at which players and managers are being written off on here is incredible. Did people not expect the Premier league to be a bit of a step up for a team who, for most of last season, was a mid-table Championship side?

The problem is, Smith didn’t do anything last season to stop the rot, it’s exactly the same as now, except this time we don’t have a player who is way too good for the division to come and save us. The arguments for giving him time would carry weight if we hadn’t been through the awful spell last season. It would take spending 200 million on a player for them to have the same impact as Grealish had from Derby onwards last season. It shows how poor Smith is that one player could have such a massive impact. A good manager would have been able to do something with the players at Smiths disposal in the championship but he just let it drift for weeks and weeks until Grealish came back. The ten game run was down to Jack, not Smith.

Giving Smith money in January wouldn’t solve the tactical inflexibility or the extremely poor in game management that has been on show for much of the year. If he stays we definitely go down. Grealish then leaves and we saw how shocking Smith without Grealish was last season so Smith wouldn’t get us back up. We’d have wasted the opportunity this season and then waste the beginning of next season as well. He’s a mid level championship manager and got extremely lucky that he had Grealish to come and save him. We still had Mings, Mcginn, Abraham etc before Derby in March and Smith couldn’t do anything with them

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clark W Griswold on December 24, 2019, 09:51:14 AM
Not sure i agree entirely there, he signed Mings and if you allow for a few games bedding in, he happened to start looking awesome around the same time Grealish came back. For me, it was those 2 players combined that had the biggest impact in the turnaround with McGinn significant all season and Abraham earlier on. I don't think you can take too much away from Smith in getting us up but i do think that your comments about the rest of the season and the possibilty of a struggle next season if he's still here are fair enough.
I did hear that we're all set up to be in a good position with the squad we have should we go down, it was a mate of mine who told me of comments to that effect that he'd heard from those above Smith. I would imagine that Grealish and McGinn would go (maybe Mings) but if we held on to the others we'd still have the basis of a very good squad for that level with money to spend on replacements.
I think it would still be an enormous setback though, if we can cling on this season i have faith that there will be enough quality bought in next summer to make relegation battles a thing of the past. I must admit i'm very concerned after Southampton and as much as i'd love to see us show loyalty to Smith, i would still sooner us do whatever we have to do to stay up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brentastonb6 on December 24, 2019, 10:29:35 AM
Quote from: Bobby Boy on December 24, 2019, 08:35:28 AM
Quote from: Risso on December 23, 2019, 11:09:44 PM
Quote from: passitsideways on December 23, 2019, 10:05:19 PM
Frankly, if he takes us down, he takes us down, provided we do so fighting. I think the only way it shouldn't be the case is if it looks like the players have lost faith in his methods in such a way that a promotion challenge next season looks jeopardised.

Splurging the 100+ million obviously doesn't look great, and the returns from some of the signings don't look great so far, to say the least, but basically everyone in the summer agreed that the squad needed a massive rebuild given the release of the Dad's army and the heavy reliance on loanees, it wasn't like it was already a well-rounded squad which was then not improved upon at all.

There’s been no fight at all in the last few games. Saturday was especially gutless. The players already look like they’ve given up and don’t believe in him.

This is what is most concerning. It has been infuriating to watch Villa players strolling around the pitch, letting opposition players pick up the ball in midfield , turn and do what they want without a hint of a challenge or of pressure.

That's not about technical ability or footballing nous, that's about a basic desire to be competitive and professional pride.

Our players seem to have a millisecond on the ball whereas our opponents have as long as they want.

Where does that come from? Players who inherently don't have drive or passion? No, I don't think so.

Surely, this is about knowing your role and being confident in what you are being sent out to do.

Dean Smith has a fixed, immovable way of playing. What if the players don't believe that they can carry what he wants out....


But just three games ago we went to Old Trafford and came back from being behind and showed plenty of desire, all is not lost , we need to get behind the team just like in the Everton game . Should we fall a goal behind we need to get behind them even more . We all want this massive Villa family to succeed and the key contribution we can provide is support. Loud and proud boys and girls please - let our boys know we’re up for this fight too.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villafirst on December 24, 2019, 10:32:14 AM
Quote from: Clampy on December 24, 2019, 06:53:28 AM
Yes, it needs to improve but let's get these next few games out of the way and see where we are in the new year. I just hope the club do not make any rash decisions. He's got my backing.

On the other hand you don't want to sleepwalk towards relegation. I think the current situation is dire - last 9 games: SEVEN defeats, one win and one draw? 4 points from 27??
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Bobby Boy on December 24, 2019, 10:35:22 AM
Quote from: brentastonb6 on December 24, 2019, 10:29:35 AM
Quote from: Bobby Boy on December 24, 2019, 08:35:28 AM
Quote from: Risso on December 23, 2019, 11:09:44 PM
Quote from: passitsideways on December 23, 2019, 10:05:19 PM
Frankly, if he takes us down, he takes us down, provided we do so fighting. I think the only way it shouldn't be the case is if it looks like the players have lost faith in his methods in such a way that a promotion challenge next season looks jeopardised.

Splurging the 100+ million obviously doesn't look great, and the returns from some of the signings don't look great so far, to say the least, but basically everyone in the summer agreed that the squad needed a massive rebuild given the release of the Dad's army and the heavy reliance on loanees, it wasn't like it was already a well-rounded squad which was then not improved upon at all.

There’s been no fight at all in the last few games. Saturday was especially gutless. The players already look like they’ve given up and don’t believe in him.

This is what is most concerning. It has been infuriating to watch Villa players strolling around the pitch, letting opposition players pick up the ball in midfield , turn and do what they want without a hint of a challenge or of pressure.

That's not about technical ability or footballing nous, that's about a basic desire to be competitive and professional pride.

Our players seem to have a millisecond on the ball whereas our opponents have as long as they want.

Where does that come from? Players who inherently don't have drive or passion? No, I don't think so.

Surely, this is about knowing your role and being confident in what you are being sent out to do.

Dean Smith has a fixed, immovable way of playing. What if the players don't believe that they can carry what he wants out....


But just three games ago we went to Old Trafford and came back from being behind and showed plenty of desire, all is not lost , we need to get behind the team just like in the Everton game . Should we fall a goal behind we need to get behind them even more . We all want this massive Villa family to succeed and the key contribution we can provide is support. Loud and proud boys and girls please - let our boys know we’re up for this fight too.

This is fair enough. On Saturday the support was great and it was only the ineptitude on show from the team that eventually stunned the crowd into silence. At 0-3 you could hear a pin drop.

We'll get behind the team on Saturday for sure. Then it's over to the players to perform.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Gareth on December 24, 2019, 10:44:40 AM
I haven’t read any of this thread over last few days but I have read a lot of those on twitter who after 4 bad results have given up on Dean & condemned us to guaranteed relegation. 

Last Saturday & the next 3 games are pivotal to our season & if we walk off after Burnley and we haven’t broke even on points across those 4 games the knives being out is difficult to ignore but for me Dean has way too much credit in the bank still to be calling for his head. 

Personally I didn’t see a lack of effort on Saturday however disappointing the performance was, I thought it was more that we fielded a team with far too many players who lack pace - Hourihane, Lansbury, Targett are all far too pedestrian when you want to up the tempo of the game, Jack has little option but to play in that ‘quarterback’ role because no one around him was moving at pace.

I’m also a firm believer that this 433 formation is killing us at the minute, having to play Jack as one of the front three because both of our first choice wingers are abject defensively and inconsistent going forward is an issue.  I hope for Dean’s sake that he is flexible and will try other formations because ultimately El Ghazi & Trezeguet could cost him his job as we are too easy to expose from wide areas with them not providing adequate cover for the full backs.

I would say to anyone who wants him sacked it won’t happen over Christmas period however much the twitter trolls who want to be first to say ‘told you so’ want it - so suck it up, try to clear mind of doubts & come Boxing Day get in that ground ready to roar the boys on - it is difficult for some I know I have one sat behind me who ridiculously is on Wesleys back from the time the teams line up for the handshake but we can play our part by not turning at the first misplaced pace.

Normally I am one who if I don’t see fight or a rhyme/reason for what the players are doing that says you have every right to boo etc - at the moment I am seeing this as a blip not a crisis....I just hope in 8 days time everything is far more jolly & we are talking more about made up transfer rumours than whether Deans job is a risk.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on December 24, 2019, 10:47:36 AM
I know it shouldnt matter but his body language in the press conferences bugs me a little. He always seems to have that same "shrug it off " attitude to each question and never gives the impression that's he's hurting or culpable.

His defence yesterday was "Hang on, we're in the semi finals of a cup and this time last year we were mid-table in the Ch'ship". 

I found it interesting that in terms of January signings, in the space of a week or so he's gone from trotting out the old "they'll have to be better than what we have" to "we will be looking to sign players next month" which at least is encouraging.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ketzster on December 24, 2019, 11:33:33 AM
People keep saying give him the next three games, if they do that we will almost certainly be down. He should have gone after Saturday. We are just wasting games we need to win and we aren’t going to with Smith. When it gets as bad as Saturday was it’s almost certain it isn’t going to turn around
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: supertom on December 24, 2019, 12:15:27 PM
We don't have the personnel or set up to play a back 4. Smith wants his first choice FB's playing high, they leave gaps. Nakamba started off well but has fallen by the wayside. He just seems unsure of what he's doing. I'm loathe to write anyone off because just look at Gueye and Veretout. The former started well for us and then ended up looking hopeless because being part of a hopeless side rubs off on you.

For me we should be looking at a back 3. When CH'S are getting pulled out of position covering for a FB or for the lack of midfield protection, there'd be a benefit have that 3rd CH. Plus we've general lack of experience at the back. Players like Mings and Konsa are good enough to be the ball playing CH of a 3 too.

Playing a front 3 isn't working for us either. I'd potentially be looking to move Grealish up top with Davis/Wesley, playing off the front man in a 3-5-1-1 (Attack minded).  The Fullys then have a little more freedom going forward too.

The alternative is 4-2-3-1 and have the bottom 2 of the mid sitting to protect the CH's a bit more and getting that 3 to get around the target man a bit more effectively (again that makes Davis a better option). We need a bit more flexibility because our current system is poor at both ends.

I like Smith, I want him to turn it around but he needs to gamble now and try something different. He also needs a big result, when the 'bigger games' come around because we're losing in matches we have to be picking results up in. If he doesn't win between now and the NYD game, he has to go though. The next appointment needs serious consideration. We cannot afford for it to be a Remi Garde appointment.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: murgsy on December 24, 2019, 12:30:09 PM
I have so many questions...

Did we have unrealistic expectations (inexperienced PL manager, squad overhaul with non-PL experienced players who never played together)?

Why did they give him the contract extension?

Are the owners prepared to stick with him - being relegated?

If he was to go - who could come to the rescue?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 24, 2019, 12:36:41 PM
Quote from: Ketzster on December 24, 2019, 11:33:33 AM
People keep saying give him the next three games, if they do that we will almost certainly be down. He should have gone after Saturday. We are just wasting games we need to win and we aren’t going to with Smith. When it gets as bad as Saturday was it’s almost certain it isn’t going to turn around

The only time we’ve turned this level of shiteness around was when Jack came back last season. Hard to see where a similar boost is going to come from.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: London Villan on December 24, 2019, 01:48:44 PM
We should build on the strengths of the squad and use the experience we have until the window opens.

That means a back three including Chester, Elmo as a wide midfielder and kodja up front.

Norwich will be like the game at Stoke last season - a turning point - when the players realised they are in the shit and need to pull their fingers out.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 24, 2019, 01:59:55 PM
Lots of calls for a back 3, unless we have been working on this for some time I think it would be a disaster.
The problem he has to solve is stopping teams getting at our defense and creating chances. The problem is the midfield offering no protection what so ever.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on December 24, 2019, 02:13:51 PM
Agree. Back three if you haven't practised it just means players getting in each other's way and playing the opposition onside all the time.

We need to defend higher up the pitch, with our midfield offering more resistance, not add more defenders.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 24, 2019, 02:22:20 PM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on December 24, 2019, 02:13:51 PM
Agree. Back three if you haven't practised it just means players getting in each other's way and playing the opposition onside all the time.

We need to defend higher up the pitch, with our midfield offering more resistance, not add more defenders.
Completely agree, it takes a lot of organizing And practice to get 3 Centre halves operating effectively.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: BC Villain on December 24, 2019, 03:35:40 PM
Quote from: eamonn on December 24, 2019, 10:47:36 AM
I know it shouldnt matter but his body language in the press conferences bugs me a little. He always seems to have that same "shrug it off " attitude to each question and never gives the impression that's he's hurting or culpable.

His defence yesterday was "Hang on, we're in the semi finals of a cup and this time last year we were mid-table in the Ch'ship". 

I found it interesting that in terms of January signings, in the space of a week or so he's gone from trotting out the old "they'll have to be better than what we have" to "we will be looking to sign players next month" which at least is encouraging.

He often talks about emotional control regardless of winning or losing.  It's just his way of doing things. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VinnieChase84 on December 24, 2019, 05:03:03 PM
I fully expect to revert to a 4231 now. Jack centrally with two solid holding players. Marv and Luiz probably. Winger wise I wouldn’t be surprised with Trez (for his workrate) and even Elmo at right wing. Extra cover round on the defensive.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 24, 2019, 06:06:17 PM
We've got to stick with him now as the only man worth replacing him with has just joined Den Haag.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: David_Nab on December 24, 2019, 06:08:51 PM
Quote from: supertom on December 24, 2019, 12:15:27 PM
We don't have the personnel or set up to play a back 4. Smith wants his first choice FB's playing high, they leave gaps. Nakamba started off well but has fallen by the wayside. He just seems unsure of what he's doing. I'm loathe to write anyone off because just look at Gueye and Veretout. The former started well for us and then ended up looking hopeless because being part of a hopeless side rubs off on you.

For me we should be looking at a back 3. When CH'S are getting pulled out of position covering for a FB or for the lack of midfield protection, there'd be a benefit have that 3rd CH. Plus we've general lack of experience at the back. Players like Mings and Konsa are good enough to be the ball playing CH of a 3 too.

Playing a front 3 isn't working for us either. I'd potentially be looking to move Grealish up top with Davis/Wesley, playing off the front man in a 3-5-1-1 (Attack minded).  The Fullys then have a little more freedom going forward too.

The alternative is 4-2-3-1 and have the bottom 2 of the mid sitting to protect the CH's a bit more and getting that 3 to get around the target man a bit more effectively (again that makes Davis a better option). We need a bit more flexibility because our current system is poor at both ends.

I like Smith, I want him to turn it around but he needs to gamble now and try something different. He also needs a big result, when the 'bigger games' come around because we're losing in matches we have to be picking results up in. If he doesn't win between now and the NYD game, he has to go though. The next appointment needs serious consideration. We cannot afford for it to be a Remi Garde appointment.

Agree about fullbacks , was pointed out on MOTD for the first goal they were both higher up the field than the CBS which left the gap for the ball to Long.The Soton boss also mentioned it so god know's why we keep doing it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chipsticks on December 24, 2019, 06:15:16 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on December 24, 2019, 06:06:17 PM
We've got to stick with him now as the only man worth replacing him with has just joined Den Haag.

hahaha
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Iamkmkm on December 24, 2019, 06:19:39 PM
What worries me is that we are so easy to score against,433 is not working and we need to change to a more defensive formation.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Richard on December 26, 2019, 11:33:45 AM
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on December 24, 2019, 05:03:03 PM
I fully expect to revert to a 4231 now. Jack centrally with two solid holding players. Marv and Luiz probably. Winger wise I wouldn’t be surprised with Trez (for his workrate) and even Elmo at right wing. Extra cover round on the defensive.

Yep I think a 3 behind Kodjia of Hourihane Grealish and Trez with Marv and Doug shielding is a good shout.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Roysmert on December 26, 2019, 12:47:22 PM
This crap from his press conference about not needing to bollock the useless feckers, and knowing what needs doing, that things didn't change when we went two up...I despair with these managers at times.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on December 26, 2019, 11:09:04 PM
Keep him, throw more money at him, in the hope that Dean turns things around. Risky, as any new man will have more deadwood to get rid off, if Dean gets the boot. Very fortunate to get the win today, hope it's one of many but I am not optimistic.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ROBBO on December 27, 2019, 02:41:09 AM
We had three unbelievable pieces of defending that denied them a result so very happy with the three points but I just cannot relate the early season form to what we are seeing now, just hoping the return of Mings will settle them down.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on December 27, 2019, 07:09:36 AM
Quote from: ROBBO on December 27, 2019, 02:41:09 AM
We had three unbelievable pieces of defending that denied them a result so very happy with the three points but I just cannot relate the early season form to what we are seeing now, just hoping the return of Mings will settle them down.

I remember chatting Monday mornings with a bloke at work on the job I was on at the time during the early part of the season. He'd fill me in on the dogheads spluttering and stuttering along, struggling to get firing, and I'd express my optimism at how even despite many a result, we were making small improvements game upon game as we grew into this division with our bunch of novices. Our ways parted when he buggered off on holiday shortly after Liverpool. I've not seen him since nor am likely to for a while, but fuck me they'd be different conversations now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Demitri_C on December 27, 2019, 08:21:08 AM
I think he is safe to january now after that win. Had he lost serious questions would have to be asked. I like smith and would prefer he turns it around tbh.

He needs to make us more consistent and not be so stubborn in sticking with wesley even when he plays atrocitous
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: phantom limb on December 27, 2019, 08:42:40 AM
Unfortunately, as pointed out by many critics during the summer, we’ve tried to bed in too many inexperienced players all at the same time. I feel that our main problem is lack of confidence rather than lack of ability. Bringing in a couple of experienced players into the squad at this stage would be invaluable.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: DB on December 27, 2019, 09:11:54 AM
Quote from: phantom limb on December 27, 2019, 08:42:40 AM
Unfortunately, as pointed out by many critics during the summer, we’ve tried to bed in too many inexperienced players all at the same time. I feel that our main problem is lack of confidence rather than lack of ability. Bringing in a couple of experienced players into the squad at this stage would be invaluable.

And currently, some of those new players don't look good enough
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VinnieChase84 on December 27, 2019, 10:23:26 AM
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on December 24, 2019, 05:03:03 PM
I fully expect to revert to a 4231 now. Jack centrally with two solid holding players. Marv and Luiz probably. Winger wise I wouldn’t be surprised with Trez (for his workrate) and even Elmo at right wing. Extra cover round on the defensive.
Almost spot on ;-)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on December 27, 2019, 11:04:40 PM
Quote
Dean Smith and his Aston Villa players are desperate to prove their doubters wrong as they attempt to climb out of the bottom three of the Premier League.

Villa ended their four-game losing run in the League with a vital victory over Norwich City on Boxing Day and now face another important game to their survival hopes against Watford on Saturday.

Smith insists he is enjoying the pressure of trying to lift Villa out of the bottom three and believes his players can also relish the challenge of attempting to defy the odds.

“I said to the players before the Norwich game that we’ve put a bit of added pressure on ourselves with the losing run,” said Villa manager Smith. “But these lads thrive under pressure and I, perversely, quite enjoy it.

“I’d rather be fourth in the League and have that pressure, but being third bottom, let’s go and prove people wrong because there are enough doubters around about what you can and can’t do.”

In terms of the psychological impact of being in the bottom three, Smith added: “I’m not one who sits there and looks at the table constantly, I just look at the next game and how we can improve as a team and as a squad.

“A lot was made about three games on the spin against teams who were below us - Southampton, Norwich and now Watford - but everything you get in this League you have to earn.


“Whether it’s against Watford or Manchester City, you’ve got to go and work hard. So Watford will be tough to beat, but we want to become tough to beat ourselves.”

Villa have the worst away record in the Premier League, taking just four points from nine games, but Smith pointed to the fact that his team has faced most of the traditional top six on the road.

“We’ve had a tough run of games - Tottenham away first game, we’ve been to Arsenal which still grates with me that we didn’t win, been to Manchester United, Manchester City and we’ve been in a lot of those games,” said Smith.

“But if you go to those places and you’re leading or level, then there is pressure on them to put pressure on you. They have got top players and they are established teams in the Premier League, and we’re a fairly new one now.”

Smith is hoping central defender Tyrone Mings will return from injury in time for the New Year’s Day trip to Burnley.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2019/12/27/dean-smith-relishing-chance-prove-aston-villas-doubters-wrong/
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Footy-Vill on December 27, 2019, 11:22:29 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on December 27, 2019, 11:04:40 PM
Quote

Villa have the worst away record in the Premier League, taking just four points from nine games, but Smith pointed to the fact that his team has faced most of the traditional top six on the road.

“We’ve had a tough run of games - Tottenham away first game, we’ve been to Arsenal which still grates with me that we didn’t win, been to Manchester United, Manchester City and we’ve been in a lot of those games,” said Smith.

“But if you go to those places and you’re leading or level, then there is pressure on them to put pressure on you. They have got top players and they are established teams in the Premier League, and we’re a fairly new one now.”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2019/12/27/dean-smith-relishing-chance-prove-aston-villas-doubters-wrong/


So as had a tough run of away matches hoping not only these easier fixtures will be more winnable and record improves , but the signs that Villa have learnt lesson from the tougher away matches already played .
The away fixtures include Leicester and Liverpool
The rest are
Watford, Southampton,West ham, Bournemouth, Brighton, Burnley and Newcastle ,Everton


How many can be won.
Improvement away and winning here and there at rivals would do a lot to secure top flight status
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on December 27, 2019, 11:31:29 PM
Quote from: Vill I An on December 27, 2019, 11:22:29 PM
The away fixtures include Leicester and Liverpool
The rest are
Watford, Southampton,West ham, Bournemouth, Brighton, Burnley and Newcastle ,Everton


How many can be won.
Improvement away and winning here and there at rivals would do a lot to secure top flight status

Right now I see two points. Yes, I'm concerned. 3 points tomorrow is essential.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Footy-Vill on December 27, 2019, 11:38:18 PM
Basically Dean Smith needs a few wins against the top 4 or 5 clubs which will really improve Villa  morale,chances of staying up and show doubters the ability of the team.

Norwich beat man city at home Drew with Leicester away
Watford beat Man Utd
West ham beat Chelsea away
Southampton beat Chelsea away
Bournemouth beat Chelsea away
Newcastle won at spurs,  home beat man Utd drew man city
Brighton beat spurs at home beat Arsenal away
 
Villa and Dean Smith need to announce themselves with a win against one of these top end clubs
It not only gets us points it shows villa belong and can compete . A point at Old Trafford showed good spirit and we all know about Spurs and Arsenal as Liverpool game.

I think be great to see a few beating at villa park of some recent top 5/6 teams
 Namely Man Utd ,Arsenal and Spurs

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Holy Trinity on December 28, 2019, 04:09:43 PM
Dean will not lSt the month of January
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Richard on December 28, 2019, 04:27:09 PM
Dean out very sorry to say
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Jon Crofts on December 28, 2019, 04:27:16 PM
Quote from: Holy Trinity on December 28, 2019, 04:09:43 PM
Dean will not lSt the month of January

I rather hope he won't make the end of this weekend.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nii Lamptey on December 28, 2019, 04:28:50 PM
Quote from: Jon Crofts on December 28, 2019, 04:27:16 PM
Quote from: Holy Trinity on December 28, 2019, 04:09:43 PM
Dean will not lSt the month of January

I rather hope he won't make the end of this weekend.
If our owners are worth their salt, he shouldn't make it into past midnight.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on December 28, 2019, 04:30:46 PM
Please, please, please go.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 28, 2019, 04:32:56 PM
After today he can't have any complaints if he's binned. We're getting worse and look incapable of improving things.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on December 28, 2019, 04:34:18 PM
Thanks for everything. Time to go.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Demitri_C on December 28, 2019, 04:35:02 PM
Thanks for memories but you have been a compete and utter disaster in the PL. Has to go. He has humilated us today
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Demitri_C on December 28, 2019, 05:33:56 PM

(https://i.ibb.co/wgkVg5X/20191228-173210.jpg) (https://ibb.co/wgkVg5X)

names starting with a and ending with a (https://babynamesetc.com/lists)


Is he for real?? It wasnt a head injury for starters.  Grealish foul was 50/50.take skme bloody respobilith for your crap selections  lame subs and shocking defensive work.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 28, 2019, 05:35:36 PM
Here we go, blame the officials.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CJ on December 28, 2019, 05:38:29 PM
The words 'straws' and 'grasping' spring to mind
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 28, 2019, 05:39:35 PM
It ignores the fact we produced fuck all against ten men, again. We also never match anyone else’s desire.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on December 28, 2019, 05:39:50 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on December 28, 2019, 05:33:56 PM

(https://i.ibb.co/wgkVg5X/20191228-173210.jpg) (https://ibb.co/wgkVg5X)

names starting with a and ending with a (https://babynamesetc.com/lists)


Is he for real?? It wasnt a head injury for starters.  Grealish foul was 50/50.take skme bloody respobilith for your crap selections  lame subs and shocking defensive work.

Gobshite. Utter waffle
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Demitri_C on December 28, 2019, 05:46:09 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on December 28, 2019, 05:39:50 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on December 28, 2019, 05:33:56 PM

(https://i.ibb.co/wgkVg5X/20191228-173210.jpg) (https://ibb.co/wgkVg5X)

names starting with a and ending with a (https://babynamesetc.com/lists)


Is he for real?? It wasnt a head injury for starters.  Grealish foul was 50/50.take skme bloody respobilith for your crap selections  lame subs and shocking defensive work.

Gobshite. Utter waffle


I agree take some bloody responsibility. Watford dont have to kick it out its not a head injury.

Desperate measures. He should resign i think but we know he wont
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Bobby Boy on December 28, 2019, 05:54:57 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on December 28, 2019, 05:35:36 PM
Here we go, blame the officials.

This is really sad actually. When Dean joined us people commented on how he cut out the bullshit and just described what he saw. It was a breath of fresh air at the time to hear honest appraisals of games.

It is clear that he has retreated to his bunker with a siege everything is against us mentally. It won't go well from there.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Demitri_C on December 28, 2019, 06:15:32 PM
Just heard him kn radio. He is sojnding like bruce more and more. Blaming the refs aaying wasnt a pen balm shoukd ahve been kicked out. Why we olayjng two games in 48hrs blah blah.

Pathetic from him
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 28, 2019, 06:16:20 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on December 28, 2019, 06:15:32 PM
Just heard him kn radio. He is sojnding like bruce more and more. Blaming the refs aaying wasnt a pen balm shoukd ahve been kicked out. Why we olayjng two games in 48hrs blah blah.

Pathetic from him

ym thits xetlyac
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: BC Villain on December 28, 2019, 06:21:15 PM
Have to say he let himself down badly in that interview.   Surly, tetchy and downright rude.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Roysmert on December 28, 2019, 06:22:43 PM
All these managers revert to type sooner or later, and they all hang themselves ans depressing as it is, Deano''s done the same. Idiotic that he didn't change it, didn't buy another striker, didn't drop Wes, and didn't buy experience. The poor bloke though, his dream in tatters. Imagine if that were one of us.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 28, 2019, 06:26:14 PM
Disappointing thing for me is he and the team have become the things I didn't expect the to. Subborn, no flexibility, no pace, little pass and move, boring, pretty negative, and we look unfit. If he got binned I was expecting it to be because we were too gung ho and were losing 5-3 a lot more often than winning 5-3. Not because we were slow, shit and boring to watch.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TheMalandro on December 28, 2019, 06:28:43 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on December 28, 2019, 06:26:14 PM
Disappointing thing for me is he and the team have become the things I didn't expect the to. Subborn, no flexibility, no pace, little pass and move, boring, pretty negative, and we look unfit. If he got binned I was expecting it to be because we were too gung ho and were losing 5-3 a lot more often than winning 5-3. Not because we were slow, shit and boring to watch.

Sums it up well.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy65 on December 28, 2019, 06:28:48 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on December 28, 2019, 06:26:14 PM
Disappointing thing for me is he and the team have become the things I didn't expect the to. Subborn, no flexibility, no pace, little pass and move, boring, pretty negative, and we look unfit. If he got binned I was expecting it to be because we were too gung ho and were losing 5-3 a lot more often than winning 5-3. Not because we were slow, shit and boring to watch.
Agreed. The seeming lack of fitness is unforgivable.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT Villan on December 28, 2019, 06:29:32 PM
Ready the cabbage, fellas. Be careful when you roll it though. If it goes on the pitch Targett will likely fall over and hurt himself as it glides by.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Footy-Vill on December 28, 2019, 06:30:19 PM
I'm for keeping him and fully support him
Even if relegation happens.
I fully see Smith as part of villa and I want him to stay I think he has the passion and footballing philosophy its just the time that's needed.
Come on Deano !
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 28, 2019, 06:33:51 PM
just think how many games ago when it was obvious that Wes was not working out, Davis was fit thats how long.
Game after game he keeps playing the same way with Wes up front on his own and failing to deliver any of the basic actions of a centre forward.
Its brainless, and even though he has tweaked the system the last few games its still been with Lumbering Wes as our focal point of attack.
And this is why he has to go.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: BC Villain on December 28, 2019, 06:34:09 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on December 28, 2019, 06:15:32 PM
Just heard him kn radio. He is sojnding like bruce more and more.  Blaming the refs aaying wasnt a pen balm shoukd ahve been kicked out. Why we olayjng two games in 48hrs blah blah.

Pathetic from him

Moaning about 2 games in 48 hours?  Like it is every other Christmas then?  He sounds like someone who knows hes close to getting a tap on the shoulder from Sawiris,  Edens and Purslow.

I really want Dean to succeed here, but hes making it harder and harder to defend him, and coming out with a post match interview like that does him no favours.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 28, 2019, 06:39:51 PM
I’m all for a manager defending himself. But pretty much every one of us could see it was a nailed on penalty. Jack didn’t play the ball out when Targett went down so why should Watford. There is no mercy at this level. And give me a fucking break about the third goal. Stop making excuses. Week after week of everyone else’s fault.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Footy-Vill on December 28, 2019, 06:39:56 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on December 28, 2019, 06:15:32 PM
Just heard him kn radio. He is sojnding like bruce more and more. Blaming the refs aaying wasnt a pen balm shoukd ahve been kicked out. Why we olayjng two games in 48hrs blah blah.

Pathetic from him

It was a penalty and there were a few excuses. Dean feeling strain a bit.
However to be fair to him He mentioned how he read the riot act and was disappointed in his players desire.

I don't ever see him as a bruce speaking nonsense type in interviews but the supporter in him could be a bias to his judgement at times. Mainly Smith is decent in how he conducts and speaks a fair and honest assessment
He's a balanced guy and not a cliche man .
Get that you're annoyed though
Annoying performance!
Onto the next.
Burnley is type of match Villa can go and win

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Footy-Vill on December 28, 2019, 06:40:33 PM
Quote from: Bobby Boy on December 28, 2019, 05:54:57 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on December 28, 2019, 05:35:36 PM
Here we go, blame the officials.

This is really sad actually. When Dean joined us people commented on how he cut out the bullshit and just described what he saw. It was a breath of fresh air at the time to hear honest appraisals of games.

It is clear that he has retreated to his bunker with a siege everything is against us mentally. It won't go well from there.

Give Dean a break it's the supporter in him !
He's a proud villa man.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 28, 2019, 06:41:17 PM
And he’s massively fortunate we didn’t lose all three games by a hatful. Tom Heaton pulled rabbits out of his hat all game and we had that block on the line from Luiz. Three straight games we’ve been completely outplayed by the worst teams in the division.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on December 28, 2019, 06:47:46 PM
That makes us the worst team in the division.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 28, 2019, 06:51:22 PM
It certainly does now Leeg
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 28, 2019, 07:53:40 PM
Quote from: BC Villain on December 28, 2019, 06:34:09 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on December 28, 2019, 06:15:32 PM
Just heard him kn radio. He is sojnding like bruce more and more.  Blaming the refs aaying wasnt a pen balm shoukd ahve been kicked out. Why we olayjng two games in 48hrs blah blah.

Pathetic from him

Moaning about 2 games in 48 hours?  Like it is every other Christmas then?  He sounds like someone who knows hes close to getting a tap on the shoulder from Sawiris,  Edens and Purslow.

I really want Dean to succeed here, but hes making it harder and harder to defend him, and coming out with a post match interview like that does him no favours.

48 hours turnaround isn't great but it's actually longer than Watford had given they kicked off at Sheffield United at 3.10pm on Boxing day. All very marginal.

Leicester didn't even have that long and Wolves have even less playing Liverpool away at half 4 tomorrow so we're far from the team with the worst schedule over xmas.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 28, 2019, 07:56:45 PM
Yes his comments today didn't sound a world away from Bruce's after the Preston game.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Roysmert on December 28, 2019, 08:08:47 PM
Quote from: Vill I An on December 28, 2019, 06:40:33 PM
Quote from: Bobby Boy on December 28, 2019, 05:54:57 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on December 28, 2019, 05:35:36 PM
Here we go, blame the officials.

This is really sad actually. When Dean joined us people commented on how he cut out the bullshit and just described what he saw. It was a breath of fresh air at the time to hear honest appraisals of games.

It is clear that he has retreated to his bunker with a siege everything is against us mentally. It won't go well from there.

Give Dean a break it's the supporter in him !
He's a proud villa man.

Ian we all want/wanted him to succeed and love that he's one of us. But...it's dire mate, and we need results pronto
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on December 28, 2019, 10:04:37 PM
Quote from: CT Villan on December 28, 2019, 06:29:32 PM
Ready the cabbage, fellas. Be careful when you roll it though. If it goes on the pitch Targett will likely fall over and hurt himself as it glides by.
Never mind the cabbage, if this goes on much longer a fan is going to run on and throw Wesley at him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on December 28, 2019, 10:10:48 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on December 28, 2019, 10:04:37 PM
Quote from: CT Villan on December 28, 2019, 06:29:32 PM
Ready the cabbage, fellas. Be careful when you roll it though. If it goes on the pitch Targett will likely fall over and hurt himself as it glides by.
Never mind the cabbage, if this goes on much longer a fan is going to run on and throw Wesley at him.
But we all know that Wesley will miss.........another one  of those "Wesley Snipes" :)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on December 29, 2019, 07:59:58 AM
If we are honest, he deserves the cabbage treatment as much as Bruce did - simply because he has morphed into Bruce by doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. The only reason we're not advocating that is because he's 'one of our own.'
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Demitri_C on December 29, 2019, 08:12:33 AM
The thing is do we want the new guy in by city a gsme we are most certainly going to lose ?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on December 29, 2019, 08:42:10 AM
Quote from: mr underhill on December 29, 2019, 07:59:58 AM
If we are honest, he deserves the cabbage treatment as much as Bruce did - simply because he has morphed into Bruce by doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. The only reason we're not advocating that is because he's 'one of our own.'

I don't think any manager should have a cabbage thrown at him, especially one that got us promoted last season. That's all a tad childish really.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VinnieChase84 on December 29, 2019, 08:44:27 AM
3 points v Burnley or he’s gone. Owners will be sorting out the new man right now
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: JJ-AV on December 29, 2019, 09:06:57 AM
I think the riot act stuff is his last roll of the dice. If we lose against Burnley then he's gone as with the cup games and Man City it's 17 days until our next big games.

Lose to Burnley and it's likely we'll be on 18 points from 22 played, going in to Brighton and Watford double-header needing two wins, they won't let Smith do that.

I like Smith and would love him to get a result against Burnley and keep us up, maybe re-assess in the Summer. I just hope they're sounding out managers now. Purslow's burned his bridges with Rafa and his two appointments at Liverpool were atrocious so I am a little concerned.

Saying that, they got the sacking of Bruce and appointment of Smith very right.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OzVilla on December 29, 2019, 09:12:57 AM
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on December 29, 2019, 08:44:27 AM
3 points v Burnley or he’s gone. Owners will be sorting out the new man right now

This is where I think he’s at too. Burnley is his must win, lose and he’ll be potted. They’ll have been some sounding out of candidates already I’d say.  Just the way it works.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 29, 2019, 10:29:37 AM
If no announce today then he gets Turf Moor I suspect.
I said before time zones will play apart as Edens in 6 hours behind, only 4.30;am here.
Cairo is 2 hours ahead of UK.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Footy-Vill on December 29, 2019, 10:56:13 AM
Have to roll with the punches here.
Smith given time can produce. It's his first full season in EPL for heaven's sake.
Look at klopp he had 5 years 8 , 4 then 2nd now likely champions.
It takes time ! Smith should be afforded time and it's a period that happens to all managers and coaches
He's head coach so takes the blame but I'll continue to support him and suggests there are others who are accountable for poor form and poor players too
I back him till there is good reason not to.
Villa aren't bottom of the league and villa won 3 days ago . Expectations perhaps have made us go in on Smith when really patience and support should be given (by those who are giving him a hard time and being crass and admiring glances to other new coaches)

In Dean we trust !
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on December 29, 2019, 12:00:48 PM
the trouble is, Footy, you can't trust him to run a bath at the moment, let alone the Villa.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KRS on December 29, 2019, 04:10:28 PM
I’m on the fence with whether DS stays or goes as I can see it clearly from both angles. What I don’t get is what are these changes that they expect Dean to implement that will turn around performances and results on the pitch given that he has a clusterfuck of a squad to deal with whilst Mings and SJM are out injured?

I genuinely don’t see any combination of our current midfielders being competitive and our patched up inexperienced defensive lineup is still prone to mistakes (thank fuck for Heaton) and leaking goals...and the less said about our forward options the better given that they are Wes or JK.

I’ve said it before on other threads, but I just don’t think the recruitment has been good enough...Wes, Trez, AEG, Luiz, Marv, Jota and Targett simply aren’t good enough (or need too much time and coaching), and there are question marks over Engels and Konsa...plus the likes of Lansbury that shouldn’t be anywhere near a starting lineup in the PL.

We all sit here astonished by the latest starting XI and we can all criticise the formation, but what players in what formation would actually be capable of getting results at the moment?

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on December 29, 2019, 04:16:24 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on December 29, 2019, 08:12:33 AM
The thing is do we want the new guy in by city a gsme we are most certainly going to lose ?

They didn't beat us when Remi Garde was manager and have already lost to Norwich. It's the sort of game our rivals keep getting results in, and it's about time we managed.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on December 30, 2019, 07:56:35 AM
I'm prepared to put my mortgage on it that we won't win .
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on December 30, 2019, 09:43:22 AM
It's got a 4-0+ written all over it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on December 30, 2019, 10:38:02 AM
I'm happy to see what players they bring in over the course of January to see if Dean Smith can pull this around.  With so many defeats in the last few games, I think he's facing an uphill battle and they will have to bring in players who can hit the ground running to lift the spirits of the other players.  Either that, or the owners and CEO fully expect us to really struggle but hope that we manage to avoid relegation.   As a precaution, they start to plan for the drop in the hope that they come up as Champions and all involved are more knowledgable for the experience for this season.   Whatever happens, January will be a very interesting month.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 30, 2019, 10:53:20 AM
Quote from: Newby on December 30, 2019, 10:38:02 AM
As a precaution, they start to plan for the drop in the hope that they come up as Champions and all involved are more knowledgable for the experience for this season.   Whatever happens, January will be a very interesting month.

If we go down, we almost certainly lose Grealish, Mings and McGinn.  We then have to replace them, find a goalscorer, and cope with FFP.  Doesn't sound like a great plan.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on December 30, 2019, 10:55:38 AM
Quote from: Risso on December 30, 2019, 10:53:20 AM
Quote from: Newby on December 30, 2019, 10:38:02 AM
As a precaution, they start to plan for the drop in the hope that they come up as Champions and all involved are more knowledgable for the experience for this season.   Whatever happens, January will be a very interesting month.

If we go down, we almost certainly lose Grealish, Mings and McGinn.  We then have to replace them, find a goalscorer, and cope with FFP.  Doesn't sound like a great plan.

A bit like the beginning of this season would have been had we not been promoted.

Only a year behind with a shit load more cash in the bank.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on December 30, 2019, 11:07:57 AM
For me it's the Soton and Watford games I'm most annoyed about (results-wise), as our points tally up to the start of Christmas wasn't too bad with the transfer window about to open. For this reason I can understand the board keeping faith and they and Deano have my short term support.
On the subject of Smith keeping faith with Wes, Deano needs to ask himself the question would any other PL manager have kept faith with a striker who is so underperforming for so long? I think the answer would be no. He should have at least mixed it up a bit by using Kodj and bringing Wes on as an impact sub. This needs to be addressed from 1st Jan!
Finally the reason we look so ineffective against 10 men so often is because, although we have 11 men on paper, in reality when we have the likes of Wes, ElGhazi, Trez, Luiz and perhaps 1 or 2 others in the team we are in fact playing with only 9 or 10 depending on who is on form and a sending off for the oppo is just serving to even things out a bit rather than giving us the impetus to be on the front foot. It also proves how weak our attacking options are that they cannot take advantage.
Come on Deano, sort it out!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 30, 2019, 11:11:40 AM
Quote from: Drummond on December 30, 2019, 10:55:38 AM
Quote from: Risso on December 30, 2019, 10:53:20 AM
Quote from: Newby on December 30, 2019, 10:38:02 AM
As a precaution, they start to plan for the drop in the hope that they come up as Champions and all involved are more knowledgable for the experience for this season.   Whatever happens, January will be a very interesting month.

If we go down, we almost certainly lose Grealish, Mings and McGinn.  We then have to replace them, find a goalscorer, and cope with FFP.  Doesn't sound like a great plan.

A bit like the beginning of this season would have been had we not been promoted.

Only a year behind with a shit load more cash in the bank.

And a shit load more expenses going out.  I think a better plan would be to stay up, personally. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: West Derby Villan on December 30, 2019, 11:35:06 AM
Quote from: KRS on December 29, 2019, 04:10:28 PM
I’m on the fence with whether DS stays or goes as I can see it clearly from both angles. What I don’t get is what are these changes that they expect Dean to implement that will turn around performances and results on the pitch given that he has a clusterfuck of a squad to deal with whilst Mings and SJM are out injured?

I genuinely don’t see any combination of our current midfielders being competitive and our patched up inexperienced defensive lineup is still prone to mistakes (thank fuck for Heaton) and leaking goals...and the less said about our forward options the better given that they are Wes or JK.

I’ve said it before on other threads, but I just don’t think the recruitment has been good enough...Wes, Trez, AEG, Luiz, Marv, Jota and Targett simply aren’t good enough (or need too much time and coaching), and there are question marks over Engels and Konsa...plus the likes of Lansbury that shouldn’t be anywhere near a starting lineup in the PL.

We all sit here astonished by the latest starting XI and we can all criticise the formation, but what players in what formation would actually be capable of getting results at the moment?

Agree with all of this KRS, good post
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on December 30, 2019, 12:19:08 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 30, 2019, 11:11:40 AM
Quote from: Drummond on December 30, 2019, 10:55:38 AM
Quote from: Risso on December 30, 2019, 10:53:20 AM
Quote from: Newby on December 30, 2019, 10:38:02 AM
As a precaution, they start to plan for the drop in the hope that they come up as Champions and all involved are more knowledgable for the experience for this season.   Whatever happens, January will be a very interesting month.

If we go down, we almost certainly lose Grealish, Mings and McGinn.  We then have to replace them, find a goalscorer, and cope with FFP.  Doesn't sound like a great plan.

A bit like the beginning of this season would have been had we not been promoted.

Only a year behind with a shit load more cash in the bank.

And a shit load more expenses going out.  I think a better plan would be to stay up, personally.

Well obviously. We all want that. (though I'd take us going down if we won the Cup 😉)

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on December 30, 2019, 12:30:10 PM
Going down should not be an option, yes the board must have a plan for it, but it will cause very big problems, players leaving & FFP. If we go I don’t think we will come straight back up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: N'ZMAV on December 30, 2019, 12:31:14 PM
Quote from: Three Spires Villa on December 30, 2019, 12:30:10 PM
Going down should not be an option, yes the board must have a plan for it, but it will cause very big problems, players leaving & FFP. If we go I don’t think we will come straight back up.
like last time?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on December 30, 2019, 12:33:58 PM
Quote from: Three Spires Villa on December 30, 2019, 12:30:10 PM
Going down should not be an option, yes the board must have a plan for it, but it will cause very big problems, players leaving & FFP. If we go I don’t think we will come straight back up.

This time I think we would (providing we kept Smith), however, it is an option because if we're not good enough it won't happen.

We've no divine right to be in the top division. We bloody well should be there mind.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 30, 2019, 12:59:39 PM
We heard this straight back up rubbish last time. It really is not easy particularly when we will have to replace our3 best players and be stuck with others really not suited to the Championship.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on December 30, 2019, 01:12:45 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 30, 2019, 12:59:39 PM
We heard this straight back up rubbish last time. It really is not easy particularly when we will have to replace our3 best players and be stuck with others really not suited to the Championship.

That was after several years of decline though.  This time around, we have a better structure to the club.  Yes, we will lose our best three players but to the tune of 100m, putting the club in a position unseen by the Championship previously.  Arguable, of course.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on December 30, 2019, 01:15:33 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 30, 2019, 12:59:39 PM
We heard this straight back up rubbish last time. It really is not easy particularly when we will have to replace our3 best players and be stuck with others really not suited to the Championship.

Disagree
It’s competitive because the standard is so low

you don’t have to be fantastic to get out of that league
any decent manager and a few rubbish ones have been successful in the past

we made a complete pigs ear of it because of our wastefulness and bad manager choices and generally doing what Villa have always done fucked it up

but it’s not a difficult league to get out of if you know what your doing

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 30, 2019, 01:24:22 PM
Quote from: Newby on December 30, 2019, 01:12:45 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 30, 2019, 12:59:39 PM
We heard this straight back up rubbish last time. It really is not easy particularly when we will have to replace our3 best players and be stuck with others really not suited to the Championship.

That was after several years of decline though.  This time around, we have a better structure to the club.  Yes, we will lose our best three players but to the tune of 100m, putting the club in a position unseen by the Championship previously.  Arguable, of course.
It won’t just be our best 3 though. Gilbert Luiz and others. So that is a complete rebuilding job. Then there is falling into the clutches of the championship version of FFP.
And if we do somehow YO Yo you have the problem of building a team for the Prem without those players. Anyone think our owners might just think why bother? It’s a ridiculous idea and unless the club does something very soon we are heading towards the Championship.
Accepting relegation is a really bad idea.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 30, 2019, 01:25:23 PM
Quote from: john e on December 30, 2019, 01:15:33 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 30, 2019, 12:59:39 PM
We heard this straight back up rubbish last time. It really is not easy particularly when we will have to replace our3 best players and be stuck with others really not suited to the Championship.

Disagree
It’s competitive because the standard is so low

you don’t have to be fantastic to get out of that league
any decent manager and a few rubbish ones have been successful in the past

we made a complete pigs ear of it because of our wastefulness and bad manager choices and generally doing what Villa have always done fucked it up

but it’s not a difficult league to get out of if you know what your doing
Completely disagree, wishful thinking.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on December 30, 2019, 01:27:39 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 30, 2019, 01:25:23 PM
Quote from: john e on December 30, 2019, 01:15:33 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 30, 2019, 12:59:39 PM
We heard this straight back up rubbish last time. It really is not easy particularly when we will have to replace our3 best players and be stuck with others really not suited to the Championship.

Disagree
It’s competitive because the standard is so low

you don’t have to be fantastic to get out of that league
any decent manager and a few rubbish ones have been successful in the past

we made a complete pigs ear of it because of our wastefulness and bad manager choices and generally doing what Villa have always done fucked it up

but it’s not a difficult league to get out of if you know what your doing
Completely disagree, wishful thinking.

it’s a league where Gestede, McCormac  and Hogan all scored 20+ goals in a season

How much more shit could it be
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 30, 2019, 01:31:34 PM
Quote from: john e on December 30, 2019, 01:27:39 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 30, 2019, 01:25:23 PM
Quote from: john e on December 30, 2019, 01:15:33 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 30, 2019, 12:59:39 PM
We heard this straight back up rubbish last time. It really is not easy particularly when we will have to replace our3 best players and be stuck with others really not suited to the Championship.

Disagree
It’s competitive because the standard is so low

you don’t have to be fantastic to get out of that league
any decent manager and a few rubbish ones have been successful in the past

we made a complete pigs ear of it because of our wastefulness and bad manager choices and generally doing what Villa have always done fucked it up

but it’s not a difficult league to get out of if you know what your doing
Completely disagree, wishful thinking.

it’s a league where Gestede, McCormac  and Hogan all scored 20+ goals in a season

How much more shit could it be
All said last time.
I can not believe that you do not appreciate the huge risk relegation presents.
Our chance to survive the first season is unlikely to be better than the one we look like throwing away now.
If you can’t see that then fine.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mallo on December 30, 2019, 01:34:19 PM
Quote from: john e on December 30, 2019, 01:27:39 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 30, 2019, 01:25:23 PM
Quote from: john e on December 30, 2019, 01:15:33 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 30, 2019, 12:59:39 PM
We heard this straight back up rubbish last time. It really is not easy particularly when we will have to replace our3 best players and be stuck with others really not suited to the Championship.


Disagree
It’s competitive because the standard is so low

you don’t have to be fantastic to get out of that league
any decent manager and a few rubbish ones have been successful in the past

we made a complete pigs ear of it because of our wastefulness and bad manager choices and generally doing what Villa have always done fucked it up

but it’s not a difficult league to get out of if you know what your doing
Completely disagree, wishful thinking.
it’s a league where Gestede, McCormac  and Hogan all scored 20+ goals in a season

How much more shit could it be
And yet Leeds, having the best manager and arguably the best squad managed to fail. It's not easy - you have to have a good deal of consistency, and a decent amount of luck.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 30, 2019, 01:36:38 PM
There is the added problem that every year the PL clubs get stronger and the rest weaker.
We could rise to the dizzy heights of Perennial YO YO club I guess.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on December 30, 2019, 01:37:20 PM
Madness. We spent an absolute fortune and nearly bankrupt the club to finish no higher than 4th and only progress through the play offs and still people think it's an easy league?

We nearly went to the wall.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on December 30, 2019, 01:43:26 PM
Quote from: aj2k77 on December 30, 2019, 01:37:20 PM
Madness. We spent an absolute fortune and nearly bankrupt the club to finish no higher than 4th and only progress through the play offs and still people think it's an easy league?

We nearly went to the wall.

With an idiot in charge.  We do not have the same idiots this time around, if it happens of course!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on December 30, 2019, 01:43:42 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 30, 2019, 01:31:34 PM
Quote from: john e on December 30, 2019, 01:27:39 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 30, 2019, 01:25:23 PM
Quote from: john e on December 30, 2019, 01:15:33 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 30, 2019, 12:59:39 PM
We heard this straight back up rubbish last time. It really is not easy particularly when we will have to replace our3 best players and be stuck with others really not suited to the Championship.

Disagree
It’s competitive because the standard is so low

you don’t have to be fantastic to get out of that league
any decent manager and a few rubbish ones have been successful in the past

we made a complete pigs ear of it because of our wastefulness and bad manager choices and generally doing what Villa have always done fucked it up

but it’s not a difficult league to get out of if you know what your doing
Completely disagree, wishful thinking.

it’s a league where Gestede, McCormac  and Hogan all scored 20+ goals in a season

How much more shit could it be
All said last time.
I can not believe that you do not appreciate the huge risk relegation presents.
Our chance to survive the first season is unlikely to be better than the one we look like throwing away now.
If you can’t see that then fine.

I don’t want to go down
It would spell disaster I think we should do all we can to stay up by spending or changing the manager if needs be

my point was purely in relation to how difficult the Championship is to get out of
I maintain it’s a very low quality league that any team with a decent manager who knows how to put a team together and play a bit of football can get out of pretty easily

I know we struggled and Leeds etc but that because we put numpties in charge and even they have managed to get out of it in the past that’s how bad it is
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 30, 2019, 01:44:06 PM
Quote from: aj2k77 on December 30, 2019, 01:37:20 PM
Madness. We spent an absolute fortune and nearly bankrupt the club to finish no higher than 4th and only progress through the play offs and still people think it's an easy league?

We nearly went to the wall.
Yep it’s the sort of confused thinking that  fucks organizations up more than anything. I really hope that This board Are not in the “it’ll be all right “ mindset.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: andyh on December 30, 2019, 01:50:44 PM
We’ve done the ‘go down to re-set’ route.
I’m fucked if I want to do it again.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 30, 2019, 01:54:37 PM
Going down would be disastrous.  The only reason we got out last year, was the form of SJM, McGinn, Mings and the return of Jack.  We'd have to sell all of those if we went down, even if they wanted to stay which I doubt.  The amortisation on just the new 2019 signings alone would be the thick end of £40m a year, before their wages.  We'd be stuck with expensive duds like Targett and Wesley, and if they left we'd make a big loss on their fees.  You've then got to hope we're not in for a points deduction, and also hope that somehow we can find a goalscorer from somewhere, something they haven't managed to do this season.

I hope we can stay up, but it doesn't look likely under Smith.  If we lose against Burnley, he really does need to be sacked immediately.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: N'ZMAV on December 30, 2019, 01:58:03 PM
Going down would finish me off.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 30, 2019, 02:02:10 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 30, 2019, 01:54:37 PM
Going down would be disastrous.  The only reason we got out last year, was the form of SJM, McGinn, Mings and the return of Jack.  We'd have to sell all of those if we went down, even if they wanted to stay which I doubt.  The amortisation on just the new 2019 signings alone would be the thick end of £40m a year, before their wages.  We'd be stuck with expensive duds like Targett and Wesley, and if they left we'd make a big loss on their fees.  You've then got to hope we're not in for a points deduction, and also hope that somehow we can find a goalscorer from somewhere, something they haven't managed to do this season.

I hope we can stay up, but it doesn't look likely under Smith.  If we lose against Burnley, he really does need to be sacked immediately.

In fairness we did have an unfair advantage playing both SJM and McGinn.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 30, 2019, 02:07:42 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on December 30, 2019, 02:02:10 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 30, 2019, 01:54:37 PM
Going down would be disastrous.  The only reason we got out last year, was the form of SJM, McGinn, Mings and the return of Jack.  We'd have to sell all of those if we went down, even if they wanted to stay which I doubt.  The amortisation on just the new 2019 signings alone would be the thick end of £40m a year, before their wages.  We'd be stuck with expensive duds like Targett and Wesley, and if they left we'd make a big loss on their fees.  You've then got to hope we're not in for a points deduction, and also hope that somehow we can find a goalscorer from somewhere, something they haven't managed to do this season.

I hope we can stay up, but it doesn't look likely under Smith.  If we lose against Burnley, he really does need to be sacked immediately.

In fairness we did have an unfair advantage playing both SJM and McGinn.

If we end up having to sell Jack AND Grealish, I'll be well pissed off!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Demitri_C on December 30, 2019, 02:18:36 PM
Smith cant even blame VAR that much we wouldnt be better off points wise


(https://i.ibb.co/0M0qd81/IMG-20191230-WA0009.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0M0qd81)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on December 30, 2019, 02:20:34 PM
Relegation would be a disaster and that's all there is to it.  Apart from the negative effect it would have both on the playing side and the financial side, we'd be at least a year behind the "plan" having already spent well over £100M and almost certainly short of our best players.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on December 30, 2019, 02:23:40 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on December 30, 2019, 02:18:36 PM
Smith cant even blame VAR that much we wouldnt be better off points wise


(https://i.ibb.co/0M0qd81/IMG-20191230-WA0009.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0M0qd81)


How do they work that out? Is the assumption that any penalty that was cancelled would have been scored? How do they work out the points value of a VAR red card?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on December 30, 2019, 02:31:01 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 30, 2019, 01:31:34 PM
Quote from: john e on December 30, 2019, 01:27:39 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 30, 2019, 01:25:23 PM
Quote from: john e on December 30, 2019, 01:15:33 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 30, 2019, 12:59:39 PM
We heard this straight back up rubbish last time. It really is not easy particularly when we will have to replace our3 best players and be stuck with others really not suited to the Championship.

Disagree
It’s competitive because the standard is so low

you don’t have to be fantastic to get out of that league
any decent manager and a few rubbish ones have been successful in the past

we made a complete pigs ear of it because of our wastefulness and bad manager choices and generally doing what Villa have always done fucked it up

but it’s not a difficult league to get out of if you know what your doing
Completely disagree, wishful thinking.

it’s a league where Gestede, McCormac  and Hogan all scored 20+ goals in a season

How much more shit could it be
All said last time.
I can not believe that you do not appreciate the huge risk relegation presents.
Our chance to survive the first season is unlikely to be better than the one we look like throwing away now.
If you can’t see that then fine.

I thought we were already down?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 30, 2019, 03:04:33 PM
Going down would clearly be a disaster and I find the attitude of rather go down and keep Dean than stay up without him utterly bizarre.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on December 30, 2019, 03:10:56 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on December 30, 2019, 03:04:33 PM
Going down would clearly be a disaster and I find the attitude of rather go down and keep Dean than stay up without him utterly bizarre.

This also baffles me. It's not like we've banked the TV money like Norwich.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on December 30, 2019, 03:21:26 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on December 30, 2019, 03:04:33 PM
Going down would clearly be a disaster and I find the attitude of rather go down and keep Dean than stay up without him utterly bizarre.

I'm not sure anyone has said that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on December 30, 2019, 03:23:54 PM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on December 30, 2019, 02:23:40 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on December 30, 2019, 02:18:36 PM
Smith cant even blame VAR that much we wouldnt be better off points wise


(https://i.ibb.co/0M0qd81/IMG-20191230-WA0009.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0M0qd81)


How do they work that out? Is the assumption that any penalty that was cancelled would have been scored? How do they work out the points value of a VAR red card?

Or that Kevin Friend is a ******.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 30, 2019, 03:27:44 PM
Christian Purslow said this after the play off win:

"Our goal is, that when we arrive in the Premier League, we are ready with a Dean Smith team – players that fit his playing profile and that give us the best possible chance to make a real impact next season – not just making up the numbers.

There’s no interest in flirting with the catastrophe of relegation that the club has had to live with for the last three years so we need to make really good decisions and add players who really improve us."

Be interesting to hear what his thoughts are now now that we are very much "flirting with the catastrophe of relegation." 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 30, 2019, 03:43:17 PM
Quote from: Drummond on December 30, 2019, 02:31:01 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 30, 2019, 01:31:34 PM
Quote from: john e on December 30, 2019, 01:27:39 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 30, 2019, 01:25:23 PM
Quote from: john e on December 30, 2019, 01:15:33 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 30, 2019, 12:59:39 PM
We heard this straight back up rubbish last time. It really is not easy particularly when we will have to replace our3 best players and be stuck with others really not suited to the Championship.

Disagree
It’s competitive because the standard is so low

you don’t have to be fantastic to get out of that league
any decent manager and a few rubbish ones have been successful in the past

we made a complete pigs ear of it because of our wastefulness and bad manager choices and generally doing what Villa have always done fucked it up

but it’s not a difficult league to get out of if you know what your doing
Completely disagree, wishful thinking.

it’s a league where Gestede, McCormac  and Hogan all scored 20+ goals in a season

How much more shit could it be
All said last time.
I can not believe that you do not appreciate the huge risk relegation presents.
Our chance to survive the first season is unlikely to be better than the one we look like throwing away now.
If you can’t see that then fine.

I thought we were already down?
If some of the thinking on here is replicated in the boardroom we are
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 30, 2019, 03:44:04 PM
Quote from: Drummond on December 30, 2019, 03:21:26 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on December 30, 2019, 03:04:33 PM
Going down would clearly be a disaster and I find the attitude of rather go down and keep Dean than stay up without him utterly bizarre.

I'm not sure anyone has said that.
Yes they have.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Demitri_C on December 30, 2019, 03:46:27 PM
For me he has two legaue games to save his job.

Offering him a new four year contract was straight out the tony xia management structure. A utterly poor decision as it was far to early to reward him knowing we havent been great in the PL
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on December 30, 2019, 03:49:21 PM
Quote from: Drummond on December 30, 2019, 03:21:26 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on December 30, 2019, 03:04:33 PM
Going down would clearly be a disaster and I find the attitude of rather go down and keep Dean than stay up without him utterly bizarre.

I'm not sure anyone has said that.




Quote from: Chipsticks on December 29, 2019, 09:53:54 PM
I cannot believe you lot are onto this thread.

I'd rather go down with Smith than sack him, to be honest - and I'm confident the club share that mentality.

If you've paid attention to any of Purslow's interviews, you'd know that we've begun a long-term project, with Smith at the heart of it.

We need some key additions in January and a plan B, not another several years of managerial roundabout.


Quote from: Fred Crump on December 29, 2019, 09:57:39 PM
Well said.


Quote from: Nunkin1965 on December 29, 2019, 10:33:25 PM
Agreed
I bought into the long term project idea because I was fed up of Aston Villa being on the bloody managerial merry go round for years on end.




There's three.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on December 30, 2019, 03:51:29 PM
Quote from: Ads on December 30, 2019, 03:23:54 PM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on December 30, 2019, 02:23:40 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on December 30, 2019, 02:18:36 PM
Smith cant even blame VAR that much we wouldnt be better off points wise


(https://i.ibb.co/0M0qd81/IMG-20191230-WA0009.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0M0qd81)


How do they work that out? Is the assumption that any penalty that was cancelled would have been scored? How do they work out the points value of a VAR red card?

Or that Kevin Friend is a c***.

A good point, well made.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on December 30, 2019, 03:54:47 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on December 30, 2019, 03:46:27 PM
For me he has two legaue games to save his job.

Offering him a new four year contract was straight out the tony xia management structure. A utterly poor decision as it was far to early to reward him knowing we havent been great in the PL

I just don't see what could be learned from two more games that we don't know already.  If he wins them both, great, but what if he then loses the next three?  Alternatively, if he loses them it'll just confirm what they already suspect and we'll have wasted more time for a new manager to come in and start getting the points we need.  This is a time for a quick decision, one way or the other.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Fred Crump on December 30, 2019, 04:23:15 PM
Guilty as charged. I don’t want us to go down obviously,  but to me the whole ‘ Premier League is everything’ attitude isn’t that important. Aston Villa is. There are lots of Man City fans who are glad they are where they are now but who still supported them when they were in the third division. I’m not criticising those who passionately want to stay up at all costs, it’s just that I have a different, probably old fashioned, view of things.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on December 30, 2019, 04:26:21 PM
If we were to have had as quick decision he would have gone like the geezer at West Ham. The pornos acted quickly. We haven't, so I think he might be safe.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Fred Crump on December 30, 2019, 04:26:51 PM
 Full disclosure. My dirty secret is that I rather enjoyed the championship with some proper clubs, grounds and supporters. There, I’ve said it...!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TonyD on December 30, 2019, 04:27:54 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on December 30, 2019, 03:54:47 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on December 30, 2019, 03:46:27 PM
For me he has two legaue games to save his job.

Offering him a new four year contract was straight out the tony xia management structure. A utterly poor decision as it was far to early to reward him knowing we havent been great in the PL

I just don't see what could be learned from two more games that we don't know already.  If he wins them both, great, but what if he then loses the next three?  Alternatively, if he loses them it'll just confirm what they already suspect and we'll have wasted more time for a new manager to come in and start getting the points we need.  This is a time for a quick decision, one way or the other.
Can’t see the point of giving him two more games.  He has proved to be so unbelievably stubborn and inept.   Letting him go asap would give the players a lift as they look increasingly exasperated as most of us.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Russ aka Big Nose on December 30, 2019, 04:28:05 PM
I know that this is a message board for people to express opinions - fair enough - but there is some nonsense posted on here.

I'm unhappy with our present position, everyone is. But those that say "unacceptable" "out of his depth" "two games to save his job" etc. have to offer an alternative.

The presumption for many appears to be we are doomed to relegation if Smith remains in charge and certain to be saved if there is a change. I don't buy that.

On the basis of the likely candidates available and the inevitable disruption to a squad largely assembled under the current regime, what evidence does anyone have that we will get more points with a new manager than with keeping Smith?

There is none (evidence that is. And no matter how fervently expressed, an opinion is not evidence).

Sacking Smith now will be a punt - and a punt that continues the cycle of attempting short-term fixes to paper over the cracks. It may not be so immediately visible, but the continuation of that approach is what is eroding the stature of our club.

That's not what I want to see. UTV.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 30, 2019, 04:29:43 PM
I don’t have a problem with that Fred. There are so many things I dislike about the PL thing, plastic fans, TV hype VAR and the financial bias towards the so called Top Clubs.
The problem I have is with the implications of another relegation.
I look at Leeds and Sheffield Wednesday Derby Forest and think that could be us. We still have the chance to be relevant in fact it’s a chance I thought we had blown.
So given the choice It’s the Premier League because I think the alternative could be so much worse.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on December 30, 2019, 04:31:17 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on December 30, 2019, 03:54:47 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on December 30, 2019, 03:46:27 PM
For me he has two legaue games to save his job.

Offering him a new four year contract was straight out the tony xia management structure. A utterly poor decision as it was far to early to reward him knowing we havent been great in the PL

I just don't see what could be learned from two more games that we don't know already.  If he wins them both, great, but what if he then loses the next three?  Alternatively, if he loses them it'll just confirm what they already suspect and we'll have wasted more time for a new manager to come in and start getting the points we need.  This is a time for a quick decision, one way or the other.

For all we know, that's already been taken.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TonyD on December 30, 2019, 04:32:52 PM
Not sacking Dean is a punt - if we’re talking about staying up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on December 30, 2019, 04:57:45 PM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on December 30, 2019, 03:49:21 PM
Quote from: Drummond on December 30, 2019, 03:21:26 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on December 30, 2019, 03:04:33 PM
Going down would clearly be a disaster and I find the attitude of rather go down and keep Dean than stay up without him utterly bizarre.

I'm not sure anyone has said that.




Quote from: Chipsticks on December 29, 2019, 09:53:54 PM
I cannot believe you lot are onto this thread.

I'd rather go down with Smith than sack him, to be honest - and I'm confident the club share that mentality.

If you've paid attention to any of Purslow's interviews, you'd know that we've begun a long-term project, with Smith at the heart of it.

We need some key additions in January and a plan B, not another several years of managerial roundabout.


Quote from: Fred Crump on December 29, 2019, 09:57:39 PM
Well said.


Quote from: Nunkin1965 on December 29, 2019, 10:33:25 PM
Agreed
I bought into the long term project idea because I was fed up of Aston Villa being on the bloody managerial merry go round for years on end.




There's three.

No. They say they'd rather go down with Smith than sack him. Not that they'd prefer that to staying up with another manager.

There's a big difference.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on December 30, 2019, 04:58:26 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 30, 2019, 03:44:04 PM
Quote from: Drummond on December 30, 2019, 03:21:26 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on December 30, 2019, 03:04:33 PM
Going down would clearly be a disaster and I find the attitude of rather go down and keep Dean than stay up without him utterly bizarre.

I'm not sure anyone has said that.
Yes they have.

You're in panto mode.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on December 30, 2019, 04:59:22 PM
Quote from: Drummond on December 30, 2019, 04:57:45 PM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on December 30, 2019, 03:49:21 PM
Quote from: Drummond on December 30, 2019, 03:21:26 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on December 30, 2019, 03:04:33 PM
Going down would clearly be a disaster and I find the attitude of rather go down and keep Dean than stay up without him utterly bizarre.

I'm not sure anyone has said that.




Quote from: Chipsticks on December 29, 2019, 09:53:54 PM
I cannot believe you lot are onto this thread.

I'd rather go down with Smith than sack him, to be honest - and I'm confident the club share that mentality.

If you've paid attention to any of Purslow's interviews, you'd know that we've begun a long-term project, with Smith at the heart of it.

We need some key additions in January and a plan B, not another several years of managerial roundabout.


Quote from: Fred Crump on December 29, 2019, 09:57:39 PM
Well said.


Quote from: Nunkin1965 on December 29, 2019, 10:33:25 PM
Agreed
I bought into the long term project idea because I was fed up of Aston Villa being on the bloody managerial merry go round for years on end.




There's three.

No. They say they'd rather go down with Smith than sack him. Not that they'd prefer that to staying up with another manager.

There's a big difference.

I wish our defence could move the goalposts as well as that...
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Russ aka Big Nose on December 30, 2019, 05:02:23 PM
Quote from: TonyD on December 30, 2019, 04:32:52 PM
Not sacking Dean is a punt - if we’re talking about staying up.

No it's not. It is keeping faith with the long-term strategy of very wealthy owners and the seemingly sensible senior management team that appointed Smith.

Twelve months ago we were a club in a real mess with an average Championship squad populated largely by players coming to the end of their careers who were on big money with no re-sale value.

The new owners have started to transform all aspects of the club and team and promotion was probably an unexpected bonus for many and almost certainly meant another season of Grealish, SJM and Mings.

A new squad with limited PL experience (inevitable given the budget restrictions of FFP and the need to reduce the average age) is clearly a work in progress and, yes, might get relegated.

But ditching the manager and bringing in someone who will want to be backed with new (experienced older/expensive) recruits is a return to a failed approach and a punt as it brings no guarantee of retaining PL status.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on December 30, 2019, 05:06:39 PM
Quote from: Drummond on December 30, 2019, 04:58:26 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 30, 2019, 03:44:04 PM
Quote from: Drummond on December 30, 2019, 03:21:26 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on December 30, 2019, 03:04:33 PM
Going down would clearly be a disaster and I find the attitude of rather go down and keep Dean than stay up without him utterly bizarre.

I'm not sure anyone has said that.
Yes they have.

You're in panto mode.

He's behind you.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TonyD on December 30, 2019, 05:14:26 PM
Quote from: Russ aka Big Nose on December 30, 2019, 05:02:23 PM
Quote from: TonyD on December 30, 2019, 04:32:52 PM
Not sacking Dean is a punt - if we’re talking about staying up.

No it's not. It is keeping faith with the long-term strategy of very wealthy owners and the seemingly sensible senior management team that appointed Smith.

Twelve months ago we were a club in a real mess with an average Championship squad populated largely by players coming to the end of their careers who were on big money with no re-sale value.

The new owners have started to transform all aspects of the club and team and promotion was probably an unexpected bonus for many and almost certainly meant another season of Grealish, SJM and Mings.

A new squad with limited PL experience (inevitable given the budget restrictions of FFP and the need to reduce the average age) is clearly a work in progress and, yes, might get relegated.

But ditching the manager and bringing in someone who will want to be backed with new (experienced older/expensive) recruits is a return to a failed approach and a punt as it brings no guarantee of retaining PL status.
You can argue to stick with a manager who is not getting the results when you can see what he is trying to achieve and just needs more time and support.
You don’t stick with a manager who is sticking to a blindingly obvious bad strategy,  keeps playing the worst striker in the history of the club on his OWN up front,  plays one of the best midfielders we’ve ever had on the wing in front of dreadful left back,  doesn’t understand what to do with substitutions and has clearly lost the support of the dressing room.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 30, 2019, 05:16:19 PM
Quote from: Drummond on December 30, 2019, 04:58:26 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 30, 2019, 03:44:04 PM
Quote from: Drummond on December 30, 2019, 03:21:26 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on December 30, 2019, 03:04:33 PM
Going down would clearly be a disaster and I find the attitude of rather go down and keep Dean than stay up without him utterly bizarre.

I'm not sure anyone has said that.
Yes they have.


You're in panto mode.
Oh no I’m not.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on December 30, 2019, 05:25:14 PM
Where is that idle boy Wishee Washee?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TonyD on December 30, 2019, 05:30:02 PM
He’s behind you.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Russ aka Big Nose on December 30, 2019, 05:40:32 PM
Quote from: TonyD on December 30, 2019, 05:14:26 PM
Quote from: Russ aka Big Nose on December 30, 2019, 05:02:23 PM
Quote from: TonyD on December 30, 2019, 04:32:52 PM
Not sacking Dean is a punt - if we’re talking about staying up.

No it's not. It is keeping faith with the long-term strategy of very wealthy owners and the seemingly sensible senior management team that appointed Smith.

Twelve months ago we were a club in a real mess with an average Championship squad populated largely by players coming to the end of their careers who were on big money with no re-sale value.

The new owners have started to transform all aspects of the club and team and promotion was probably an unexpected bonus for many and almost certainly meant another season of Grealish, SJM and Mings.

A new squad with limited PL experience (inevitable given the budget restrictions of FFP and the need to reduce the average age) is clearly a work in progress and, yes, might get relegated.

But ditching the manager and bringing in someone who will want to be backed with new (experienced older/expensive) recruits is a return to a failed approach and a punt as it brings no guarantee of retaining PL status.
You can argue to stick with a manager who is not getting the results when you can see what he is trying to achieve and just needs more time and support.
You don’t stick with a manager who is sticking to a blindingly obvious bad strategy,  keeps playing the worst striker in the history of the club on his OWN up front,  plays one of the best midfielders we’ve ever had on the wing in front of dreadful left back,  doesn’t understand what to do with substitutions and has clearly lost the support of the dressing room.

As per my original post - fervently expressed opinions are still opinions and not facts or evidence. Out of necessity we bought potential rather than proven quality.

So some recruited are raw but will adjust and become established PL players (hopefully at Villa), some will take a while but will also get there and some will not.

Other than Jota, who was a makeweight to get Gardner off the payroll, I'm not resigned to any of the recruits being marked as 'not good enough' YET (reference Amavi, Veretout and others binned or written off to soon).

I would agree that Grealish needs to play in a central role, but the stick Wesley gets is (in my view) a result of him being singled out by some as this season's Neil Taylor. He is raw, sometimes ungainly but there is a player there struggling for decent service and players being close enough to link up with.

And as for Targett being dreadful - given the players picked at LB in recent seasons, he is far from the worst we have had there.

Personally I would go 3-5-2 to make better use of the players available but that is a different discussion (albeit puzzling that it is not something Smith has tried).
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 30, 2019, 05:52:22 PM
Quote from: Russ aka Big Nose on December 30, 2019, 05:40:32 PM


And as for Targett being dreadful - given the players picked at LB in recent seasons, he is far from the worst we have had there.



Great, £14m and the best defence anybody can muster is that Targett isn't as bad as Tony Moon.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on December 30, 2019, 06:16:40 PM
If a disinterested but knowledgeable party could be found to cast a critical eye over a list of our player turnover post-Bent, I think they'd be amazed we were currently a top division side. I remember someone musing on here a good while back on when was the last time we bought someone at, or close to, the height of their powers?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: N'ZMAV on December 30, 2019, 06:40:28 PM
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on December 30, 2019, 06:16:40 PM
when was the last time we bought someone at, or close to, the height of their powers?


(https://i.ibb.co/1mjPdm3/PA-9698782-310x415.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1mjPdm3)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 30, 2019, 06:44:19 PM
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on December 30, 2019, 06:16:40 PM
If a disinterested but knowledgeable party could be found to cast a critical eye over a list of our player turnover post-Bent, I think they'd be amazed we were currently a top division side. I remember someone musing on here a good while back on when was the last time we bought someone at, or close to, the height of their powers?

Tom Heaton.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on December 30, 2019, 06:48:43 PM
Heaton, Mings, Engels, Targett, Trezeguet, El Ghazi, Hause, Guilbert off the top of my head. None of them were signed as young kids nor are they in the twilight of their career (assuming Heaton can carry on until late thirties/early forties as is common with goalkeepers).
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: N'ZMAV on December 30, 2019, 06:50:04 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on December 30, 2019, 06:44:19 PM
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on December 30, 2019, 06:16:40 PM
If a disinterested but knowledgeable party could be found to cast a critical eye over a list of our player turnover post-Bent, I think they'd be amazed we were currently a top division side. I remember someone musing on here a good while back on when was the last time we bought someone at, or close to, the height of their powers?

Tom Heaton.
a good signing
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on December 30, 2019, 06:51:12 PM
Quote from: Russ aka Big Nose on December 30, 2019, 05:40:32 PM
As per my original post - fervently expressed opinions are still opinions and not facts or evidence. Out of necessity we bought potential rather than proven quality.

So some recruited are raw but will adjust and become established PL players (hopefully at Villa), some will take a while but will also get there and some will not.

Other than Jota, who was a makeweight to get Gardner off the payroll, I'm not resigned to any of the recruits being marked as 'not good enough' YET (reference Amavi, Veretout and others binned or written off to soon).

I would agree that Grealish needs to play in a central role, but the stick Wesley gets is (in my view) a result of him being singled out by some as this season's Neil Taylor. He is raw, sometimes ungainly but there is a player there struggling for decent service and players being close enough to link up with.

And as for Targett being dreadful - given the players picked at LB in recent seasons, he is far from the worst we have had there.

Personally I would go 3-5-2 to make better use of the players available but that is a different discussion (albeit puzzling that it is not something Smith has tried).
I pretty much support these opinions, although Trez would have to make massive improvements before I could regard him as up to snuff.
My greatest concerns are that Smith (a) rates Lansbury, (b) seems not to be able to see what many others do, that a change in set-up is required, and (c) is not dealing with the drop in morale that seems evident.
I won't mention my usual comments about fitness, ball retention and dynamisim.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on December 30, 2019, 06:58:01 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 30, 2019, 05:52:22 PM
Quote from: Russ aka Big Nose on December 30, 2019, 05:40:32 PM


And as for Targett being dreadful - given the players picked at LB in recent seasons, he is far from the worst we have had there.



Great, £14m and the best defence anybody can muster is that Targett isn't as bad as Tony Moon.

The price rises to £17m with add-ons.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: N'ZMAV on December 30, 2019, 07:03:44 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on December 30, 2019, 06:58:01 PM
The price rises to £17m with add-ons.
wouldn't worry about those
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 30, 2019, 07:05:40 PM
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on December 30, 2019, 06:16:40 PM
when was the last time we bought someone at, or close to, the height of their powers?

Lots of times, it's just that the height of their powers turned out not to be very high.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on December 30, 2019, 07:16:59 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on December 30, 2019, 06:58:01 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 30, 2019, 05:52:22 PM
Quote from: Russ aka Big Nose on December 30, 2019, 05:40:32 PM


And as for Targett being dreadful - given the players picked at LB in recent seasons, he is far from the worst we have had there.



Great, £14m and the best defence anybody can muster is that Targett isn't as bad as Tony Moon.

The price rises to £17m with add-ons.

Targets the least of our problems

in fact the back 4 of Guilbert Mings Engels Target when they are all fit and play together are as good a defence as we have had for a good few years imo

bigger problems for me are-

front 3 of Wesley Ghazi Trez all showing little and is very concerning I’ve said before if we go down they will be the main reason

Grealish playing wide is just ridiculous and doesn’t help Smiths case in any way

McGinn Grealish in centre mid is good when they don’t play or play elsewhere we struggle
all the calls to rest McGinn were fucking stupid imo,
 Watford is what you get without him and Grealish wide

so the only Prem players we have in my view are-

Heaton, Guilbert Mings Engels Grealish McGinn

Maybe Marvo and Luiz will get there I have hopes for them
that’s a good 6 out of 11 but obviously they get injured and we are weakened when we overload to many of the others in the team

there’s not a lot we can do about it only buy more prem quality players in the window
rebuilding is what we have been doing for a while and the wheels have come of a bit but when we get the injured back and a few new additions we can get rolling again

just hope it’s not to late by then

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on December 30, 2019, 07:20:36 PM
Quote from: N'ZMAV on December 30, 2019, 07:03:44 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on December 30, 2019, 06:58:01 PM
The price rises to £17m with add-ons.
wouldn't worry about those

Yup, he'll be replaced in the summer.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 30, 2019, 07:40:49 PM
I agree regarding the defense being ok but it is the midfield that is the biggest problem.
Jack and SJM wasted by playing too deep and SJM trying to do too much defensively and reducing his impact offensively.
There is not a combination of Marvelous Luiz Connor that provides any cover defensively.
The idea Of posting 2 of the forwards wide and then Wes through the middle is obviously not working.
So a combination of players not quite good enough compounded by poor deployment gets you 3rd bottom.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on December 30, 2019, 07:47:12 PM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on December 30, 2019, 04:59:22 PM
Quote from: Drummond on December 30, 2019, 04:57:45 PM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on December 30, 2019, 03:49:21 PM
Quote from: Drummond on December 30, 2019, 03:21:26 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on December 30, 2019, 03:04:33 PM
Going down would clearly be a disaster and I find the attitude of rather go down and keep Dean than stay up without him utterly bizarre.

I'm not sure anyone has said that.




Quote from: Chipsticks on December 29, 2019, 09:53:54 PM
I cannot believe you lot are onto this thread.

I'd rather go down with Smith than sack him, to be honest - and I'm confident the club share that mentality.

If you've paid attention to any of Purslow's interviews, you'd know that we've begun a long-term project, with Smith at the heart of it.

We need some key additions in January and a plan B, not another several years of managerial roundabout.


Quote from: Fred Crump on December 29, 2019, 09:57:39 PM
Well said.


Quote from: Nunkin1965 on December 29, 2019, 10:33:25 PM
Agreed
I bought into the long term project idea because I was fed up of Aston Villa being on the bloody managerial merry go round for years on end.




There's three.

No. They say they'd rather go down with Smith than sack him. Not that they'd prefer that to staying up with another manager.

There's a big difference.

I wish our defence could move the goalposts as well as that...

Sorry you didn't understand the original argument, I thought it was pretty clear.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on December 30, 2019, 07:51:57 PM
Quote from: john e on December 30, 2019, 07:16:59 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on December 30, 2019, 06:58:01 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 30, 2019, 05:52:22 PM
Quote from: Russ aka Big Nose on December 30, 2019, 05:40:32 PM


And as for Targett being dreadful - given the players picked at LB in recent seasons, he is far from the worst we have had there.



Great, £14m and the best defence anybody can muster is that Targett isn't as bad as Tony Moon.

The price rises to £17m with add-ons.

all the calls to rest McGinn were fucking stupid imo,
 Watford is what you get without him and Grealish wide

He wasn't playing very well, had played a lot and needed a rest. Then we find out he was injured too.

I'm not sure why you think those calls were stupid.

Would you have just played him until he was run into the ground and/or badly injured?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 30, 2019, 07:53:31 PM
Quote from: Drummond on December 30, 2019, 07:51:57 PM

Wouodnyiubhavebjustbokay3dnhim until he was run into the ground and/or badly injured?

You're starting to worry me now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on December 30, 2019, 07:55:06 PM
Oh, too quick Riss.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on December 30, 2019, 08:29:21 PM
Quote from: Drummond on December 30, 2019, 07:51:57 PM
Quote from: john e on December 30, 2019, 07:16:59 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on December 30, 2019, 06:58:01 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 30, 2019, 05:52:22 PM
Quote from: Russ aka Big Nose on December 30, 2019, 05:40:32 PM


And as for Targett being dreadful - given the players picked at LB in recent seasons, he is far from the worst we have had there.



Great, £14m and the best defence anybody can muster is that Targett isn't as bad as Tony Moon.

The price rises to £17m with add-ons.

all the calls to rest McGinn were fucking stupid imo,
 Watford is what you get without him and Grealish wide

He wasn't playing very well, had played a lot and needed a rest. Then we find out he was injured too.

I'm not sure why you think those calls were stupid.

Would you have just played him until he was run into the ground and/or badly injured?

I didn’t think he was playing as badly as you seem to

he was still the second best midfielder we had in most games even when he wasn’t playing well as you say

we are in a relegation scrap
We need every one of our best players on the pitch every time we play if possible
loads of players carry knocks I remember Carragher saying he can’t ever remember playing without some sort of niggle

you start resting McGinn and you got no chance of staying up

Anyway you got your wish now he’ll be back raring to go hopefully
I’d still prefer him out there even if he wasn’t on top form to be honest
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 30, 2019, 08:40:00 PM
If you see what SJM has been doing and where he has been running you see he has been closing chasing and filling in defensively.
So I don’t subscribe to the idea he was playing badly but without doubt we are not getting the best out of him and again it’s back to the system and deployment.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: old man villa fan on December 31, 2019, 08:01:30 AM
Quote from: KRS on December 29, 2019, 04:10:28 PM
I’m on the fence with whether DS stays or goes as I can see it clearly from both angles. What I don’t get is what are these changes that they expect Dean to implement that will turn around performances and results on the pitch given that he has a clusterfuck of a squad to deal with whilst Mings and SJM are out injured?

I genuinely don’t see any combination of our current midfielders being competitive and our patched up inexperienced defensive lineup is still prone to mistakes (thank fuck for Heaton) and leaking goals...and the less said about our forward options the better given that they are Wes or JK.

I’ve said it before on other threads, but I just don’t think the recruitment has been good enough...Wes, Trez, AEG, Luiz, Marv, Jota and Targett simply aren’t good enough (or need too much time and coaching), and there are question marks over Engels and Konsa...plus the likes of Lansbury that shouldn’t be anywhere near a starting lineup in the PL.

We all sit here astonished by the latest starting XI and we can all criticise the formation, but what players in what formation would actually be capable of getting results at the moment?

I haven't seen any answers to the points you raise in your first and last paragraphs. It's easy to criticise without giving an alternative.

We have a very thin squad and with Mings and SJM out injured and Wesley not scoring/creating, there does not appear to be solutions in the squad. Even with the players we brought in, it only generally covered a 1st Team and when you get down to the likes of Lansbury, you are struggling.

The squad being thin, has resulted in us only being able to play one way, particularly after injuries started to hit.

The alternatives options open to the manager, I'm still waiting to read on this or other threads.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 31, 2019, 08:58:47 AM
Lots of people have suggested different line ups and formations. No way of knowing if they’d make a difference of course.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on December 31, 2019, 09:18:11 AM
Quote from: john e on December 30, 2019, 08:29:21 PM
Quote from: Drummond on December 30, 2019, 07:51:57 PM
Quote from: john e on December 30, 2019, 07:16:59 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on December 30, 2019, 06:58:01 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 30, 2019, 05:52:22 PM
Quote from: Russ aka Big Nose on December 30, 2019, 05:40:32 PM


And as for Targett being dreadful - given the players picked at LB in recent seasons, he is far from the worst we have had there.



Great, £14m and the best defence anybody can muster is that Targett isn't as bad as Tony Moon.

The price rises to £17m with add-ons.

all the calls to rest McGinn were fucking stupid imo,
 Watford is what you get without him and Grealish wide

He wasn't playing very well, had played a lot and needed a rest. Then we find out he was injured too.

I'm not sure why you think those calls were stupid.

Would you have just played him until he was run into the ground and/or badly injured?

I didn’t think he was playing as badly as you seem to

he was still the second best midfielder we had in most games even when he wasn’t playing well as you say

we are in a relegation scrap
We need every one of our best players on the pitch every time we play if possible
loads of players carry knocks I remember Carragher saying he can’t ever remember playing without some sort of niggle

you start resting McGinn and you got no chance of staying up

Anyway you got your wish now he’ll be back raring to go hopefully
I’d still prefer him out there even if he wasn’t on top form to be honest

What do you mean Drummond got his wish? He wanted him to have a breather for a game or two (which may have done the injury he was carrying some good), not get injured for three months. What a silly comment.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on December 31, 2019, 09:50:22 AM
Quote from: Clampy on December 31, 2019, 09:18:11 AM
Quote from: john e on December 30, 2019, 08:29:21 PM
Quote from: Drummond on December 30, 2019, 07:51:57 PM
Quote from: john e on December 30, 2019, 07:16:59 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on December 30, 2019, 06:58:01 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 30, 2019, 05:52:22 PM
Quote from: Russ aka Big Nose on December 30, 2019, 05:40:32 PM


And as for Targett being dreadful - given the players picked at LB in recent seasons, he is far from the worst we have had there.



Great, £14m and the best defence anybody can muster is that Targett isn't as bad as Tony Moon.

The price rises to £17m with add-ons.

all the calls to rest McGinn were fucking stupid imo,
 Watford is what you get without him and Grealish wide

He wasn't playing very well, had played a lot and needed a rest. Then we find out he was injured too.

I'm not sure why you think those calls were stupid.

Would you have just played him until he was run into the ground and/or badly injured?

I didn’t think he was playing as badly as you seem to

he was still the second best midfielder we had in most games even when he wasn’t playing well as you say

we are in a relegation scrap
We need every one of our best players on the pitch every time we play if possible
loads of players carry knocks I remember Carragher saying he can’t ever remember playing without some sort of niggle

you start resting McGinn and you got no chance of staying up

Anyway you got your wish now he’ll be back raring to go hopefully
I’d still prefer him out there even if he wasn’t on top form to be honest

What do you mean Drummond got his wish? He wanted him to have a breather for a game or two (which may have done the injury he was carrying some good), not get injured for three months. What a silly comment.


you really do think your clever popping up all over the pace with your little shitty out downs
maybe it was silly but its nothing compared to the total bollocks you've been posting on here the last few years

night and day haranguing of anyone who didn't tow the party line, 100% blind allegiance to Bruceball and all his cohorts making yourself look a right twat day after day,
 only in the end to pretend you never said much when in reality you were living on here challenging anyone and everyone when they posted negative stuff on Bruce for the best part of 3 fucking years

putting people down constantly on the transfer thread for chatting about transfer rumours on a fucking a gossip & transfer speculation thread

your just a H+V troll, mopping around trying to look clever

at least i admit i can be a right twat on here, but if its a fall out you want i will give it to you i'm not one of the vulnerable posters i have seen you bully over the years, then rush over to GM to take the piss out of them or stick the knife


i'm sure you will come back with some clever dicky comments of sudo surprise but i don't give a fuck what you've got to say your posting history on here is all i need to see what you are

Happy New year

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on December 31, 2019, 09:54:44 AM
Quote from: john e on December 31, 2019, 09:50:22 AM
Quote from: Clampy on December 31, 2019, 09:18:11 AM
Quote from: john e on December 30, 2019, 08:29:21 PM
Quote from: Drummond on December 30, 2019, 07:51:57 PM
Quote from: john e on December 30, 2019, 07:16:59 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on December 30, 2019, 06:58:01 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 30, 2019, 05:52:22 PM
Quote from: Russ aka Big Nose on December 30, 2019, 05:40:32 PM


And as for Targett being dreadful - given the players picked at LB in recent seasons, he is far from the worst we have had there.



Great, £14m and the best defence anybody can muster is that Targett isn't as bad as Tony Moon.

The price rises to £17m with add-ons.

all the calls to rest McGinn were fucking stupid imo,
 Watford is what you get without him and Grealish wide

He wasn't playing very well, had played a lot and needed a rest. Then we find out he was injured too.

I'm not sure why you think those calls were stupid.

Would you have just played him until he was run into the ground and/or badly injured?

I didn’t think he was playing as badly as you seem to

he was still the second best midfielder we had in most games even when he wasn’t playing well as you say

we are in a relegation scrap
We need every one of our best players on the pitch every time we play if possible
loads of players carry knocks I remember Carragher saying he can’t ever remember playing without some sort of niggle

you start resting McGinn and you got no chance of staying up

Anyway you got your wish now he’ll be back raring to go hopefully
I’d still prefer him out there even if he wasn’t on top form to be honest

What do you mean Drummond got his wish? He wanted him to have a breather for a game or two (which may have done the injury he was carrying some good), not get injured for three months. What a silly comment.


you really do think your clever popping up all over the pace with your little shitty out downs
maybe it was silly but its nothing compared to the total bollocks you've been posting on here the last few years

night and day haranguing of anyone who didn't tow the party line, 100% blind allegiance to Bruceball and all his cohorts making yourself look a right twat day after day,
 only in the end to pretend you never said much when in reality you were living on here challenging anyone and everyone when they posted negative stuff on Bruce for the best part of 3 fucking years

putting people down constantly on the transfer thread for chatting about transfer rumours on a fucking a gossip & transfer speculation thread

your just a H+V troll, mopping around trying to look clever

at least i admit i can be a right twat on here, but if its a fall out you want i will give it to you i'm not one of the vulnerable posters i have seen you bully over the years, then rush over to GM to take the piss out of them or stick the knife


i'm sure you will come back with some clever dicky comments of sudo surprise but i don't give a fuck what you've got to say your posting history on here is all i need to see what you are

Happy New year



Apology or ban - the choice is yours.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on December 31, 2019, 10:04:04 AM
John, it was a silly comment and you've admitted it yourself. I thought myself he should have been left out for a game or two, not because he might get injured like he did, but because he needed a break and might make the injury he had worse and besides, he wasn't his usual effective self. In the long run, it might have done us good.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on December 31, 2019, 10:07:09 AM
For those posters looking for Smith to be sacked after the Watford game, I fear you may well be disappointed again tomorrow if the result goes against us.
I feel the owners will back Smith into January, rightly or wrongly because they may feel they owe him having not backed him with an extra striker at least, last transfer window. Also if there are any dissenters in the changing room, again I feel they will back Smith having seen the way they discharged of "Gates" McCormack.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on December 31, 2019, 10:19:13 AM
apologies to Clampy for my over the top reaction
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on December 31, 2019, 10:33:41 AM
Quote from: john e on December 31, 2019, 10:19:13 AM
apologies to Clampy for my over the top reaction

Thank you. Now let's move on.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on December 31, 2019, 12:01:51 PM
Despite what John wrote was total bollocks and in some cases downright lies, I accept the apology. Thank you.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: David_Nab on December 31, 2019, 12:54:32 PM
An interesting read
https://medium.com/@DavidAnderson_1/brentford-fc-thomas-frank-v-dean-smith-66ba178fd80d

Quote
In October 2018, Frank stepped into the Brentford hot seat with the squad having already had a strong foothold in one of Dean Smith’s characteristically choppy slumps, where nobody, especially Smith, could ever truly answer why lengthy periods of a season featured a succession of costly results.

Quote
The reputation under Smith was that of a soft touch, easy to create chances against and regularly conceding the same type of goal.
The ball looped high into the box from wide positions for an easy header or the ball launched over the top of the defence, beating the offside trap for a forward to get in one on one with the goalkeeper.

Quote
Brentford under Smith seemed under coached defensively, and during his three years at the club he never once looked to get to grips with the defensive side of the game, instead, mainly relying on the quantity of chances created in attack.

The second 2 points are certainly 2 issues we currently have.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 31, 2019, 12:59:01 PM
Quote from: Clampy on December 31, 2019, 12:01:51 PM
Despite what John wrote was total bollocks and in some cases downright lies, I accept the apology. Thank you.
Being some one you constantly snipe at,it would be nice to think that you might consider a New Years resolution.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on December 31, 2019, 01:09:32 PM
Quote from: Abbeyfealeavfc on December 31, 2019, 10:07:09 AM
For those posters looking for Smith to be sacked after the Watford game, I fear you may well be disappointed again tomorrow if the result goes against us.
I feel the owners will back Smith into January, rightly or wrongly because they may feel they owe him having not backed him with an extra striker at least, last transfer window. Also if there are any dissenters in the changing room, again I feel they will back Smith having seen the way they discharged of "Gates" McCormack.
What does the bit in bold mean? - I don't see a connection between our current situation and a washed-up Scotsman.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 31, 2019, 01:15:01 PM
Quote from: Mister E on December 31, 2019, 01:09:32 PM
Quote from: Abbeyfealeavfc on December 31, 2019, 10:07:09 AM
For those posters looking for Smith to be sacked after the Watford game, I fear you may well be disappointed again tomorrow if the result goes against us.
I feel the owners will back Smith into January, rightly or wrongly because they may feel they owe him having not backed him with an extra striker at least, last transfer window. Also if there are any dissenters in the changing room, again I feel they will back Smith having seen the way they discharged of "Gates" McCormack.
What does the bit in bold mean? - I don't see a connection between our current situation and a washed-up Scotsman.
I think he means they will back the manager against player power.
Even though it’s a different regime now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on December 31, 2019, 03:25:29 PM
I am with Chicago .  As somebody you regularly snipe at, despite having DW to shield you, the apology should be going the other way to john.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on December 31, 2019, 03:32:05 PM
Quote from: brian green on December 31, 2019, 03:25:29 PM
I am with Chicago .  As somebody you regularly snipe at, despite having DW to shield you, the apology should be going the other way to john.

If either of you have a complaint about the way this site is run, contact the moderators.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on December 31, 2019, 03:33:49 PM
https://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?action=contact
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 31, 2019, 04:09:48 PM
Quote from: Legion on December 31, 2019, 03:33:49 PM
https://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?action=contact
I get you can not view the contact page message.
It’s not as though no one knows what the common denominator is though is it?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on December 31, 2019, 09:36:04 PM
I can't  open your link Lee.  What does it say?  "Hi Brian we really appreciate the three quarters of a century you have followed the Villa home and away.  Your views on how Villa fans should behave towards each other is very important to us."  No?  No surprise there then.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on December 31, 2019, 09:41:49 PM
I have no idea why that link does not work. It is fine for me. Opens up a contact page.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 31, 2019, 10:48:34 PM
Quote from: brian green on December 31, 2019, 09:36:04 PM
I can't  open your link Lee.  What does it say?  "Hi Brian we really appreciate the three quarters of a century you have followed the Villa home and away.  Your views on how Villa fans should behave towards each other is very important to us."  No?  No surprise there then.
:)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on January 01, 2020, 02:12:20 AM
Quote from: brian green on December 31, 2019, 09:36:04 PM
I can't  open your link Lee.  What does it say?  "Hi Brian we really appreciate the three quarters of a century you have followed the Villa home and away.  Your views on how Villa fans should behave towards each other is very important to us."  No?  No surprise there then.

The way people behave on here is important to us. And it cuts both ways.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: levico on January 01, 2020, 10:58:28 AM
Ahem. Getting back to the thread, last game/chance for Deano today?

Caught between really wanting him to succeed and thus giving him time and needing our owners to show that they’re paying attention and take decisive action.

The Telegraph article says it all really.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villa Lew on January 01, 2020, 11:20:26 AM
This is the Telegraph article

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2019/12/31/aston-villa-prepare-make-or-break-month-seek-avoid-disastrous/
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: DB on January 01, 2020, 11:23:23 AM
Big team selection today for Dean.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CJ on January 01, 2020, 11:29:06 AM
If he starts with Wesley again today I'm done with Dean
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on January 01, 2020, 11:46:07 AM
Quote from: CJ on January 01, 2020, 11:29:06 AM
If he starts with Wesley again today I'm done with Dean

You're done with Dean.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CJ on January 01, 2020, 11:50:48 AM
I am. Hope he proves me wrong
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Neil Hawkes on January 01, 2020, 12:03:16 PM
Quote from: CJ on January 01, 2020, 11:50:48 AM
I am. Hope he proves me wrong
I'm not for one minute saying he will become the top scorer in the league by the end of the season, nor am I entirely pleased with being this far into our new campaign with such a paucity of options, but 2 points:
1. Who is there to replace him? (Kodja is not that missing link)
2. How can he start scoring again, if he is not playing?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Roysmert on January 01, 2020, 12:11:22 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on January 01, 2020, 02:12:20 AM
Quote from: brian green on December 31, 2019, 09:36:04 PM
I can't  open your link Lee.  What does it say?  "Hi Brian we really appreciate the three quarters of a century you have followed the Villa home and away.  Your views on how Villa fans should behave towards each other is very important to us."  No?  No surprise there then.

The way people behave on here is important to us. And it cuts both ways.

Agreed. Brian has a point though. People are very fond of you and Mac Dave, and extremely grateful for the site and the smooth running and time given by you. Don't ever let that cloud the fact that there can be and has been a bombastic approach by some mods and posters down the years but I guess that's life. Most on here aren't like you and I, and post under their own name, they use pseudonyms and they can take on whatever persona they like and no-one will know. People posting that they've felt victimised shouldn't lead to a post that says don't like it, then leave. Just my opinion.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TheMalandro on January 01, 2020, 12:14:16 PM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on January 01, 2020, 11:46:07 AM
Quote from: CJ on January 01, 2020, 11:29:06 AM
If he starts with Wesley again today I'm done with Dean

You're done with Dean.

That's him done with Dean.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on January 01, 2020, 12:15:37 PM
Quote from: Roysmert on January 01, 2020, 12:11:22 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on January 01, 2020, 02:12:20 AM
Quote from: brian green on December 31, 2019, 09:36:04 PM
I can't  open your link Lee.  What does it say?  "Hi Brian we really appreciate the three quarters of a century you have followed the Villa home and away.  Your views on how Villa fans should behave towards each other is very important to us."  No?  No surprise there then.

The way people behave on here is important to us. And it cuts both ways.

Agreed. Brian has a point though. People are very fond of you and Mac Dave, and extremely grateful for the site and the smooth running and time given by you. Don't ever let that cloud the fact that there can be and has been a bombastic approach by some mods and posters down the years but I guess that's life. Most on here aren't like you and I, and post under their own name, they use pseudonyms and they can take on whatever persona they like and no-one will know. People posting that they've felt victimised shouldn't lead to a post that says don't like it, then leave. Just my opinion.

The wider issue is none of my business, but I wanted to post my agreement about the importance of posting under one's own name and not using pseudonyms.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Roysmert on January 01, 2020, 12:20:15 PM
Name? "Ealing"
First Name? "Sexual"
Erm, if you insist go on then  :D
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on January 01, 2020, 12:24:19 PM
Quote from: Roysmert on January 01, 2020, 12:20:15 PM
Name? "Ealing"
First Name? "Sexual"
Erm, if you insist go on then  :D

His parents thought it would toughen him up. They were wrong.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on January 01, 2020, 12:26:58 PM
Quote from: LeeB on January 01, 2020, 12:24:19 PM
Quote from: Roysmert on January 01, 2020, 12:20:15 PM
Name? "Ealing"
First Name? "Sexual"
Erm, if you insist go on then  :D

His parents thought it would toughen him up. They were wrong.

Give a man a fish, you feed him for one day. Teach a man to twerk, you've got an awkward few hours until the milk train comes.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: itmustbe_it is! on January 01, 2020, 01:28:41 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on January 01, 2020, 12:26:58 PM
Quote from: LeeB on January 01, 2020, 12:24:19 PM
Quote from: Roysmert on January 01, 2020, 12:20:15 PM
Name? "Ealing"
First Name? "Sexual"
Erm, if you insist go on then  :D

His parents thought it would toughen him up. They were wrong.

Give a man a fish, you feed him for one day. Teach a man to twerk, you've got an awkward few hours until the milk train comes.

Eric Cantona going under the radar on H and V?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: GarTomas on January 01, 2020, 01:31:05 PM
Quote from: CJ on January 01, 2020, 11:50:48 AM
I am. Hope he proves me wrong

I think he has.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CJ on January 01, 2020, 02:29:19 PM
He has. Change of system, change of heart.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on January 01, 2020, 02:40:41 PM
Quote from: CJ on January 01, 2020, 02:29:19 PM
He has. Change of system, change of heart.

Who says Villa fans are fickle eh? 😉
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 01, 2020, 02:41:24 PM
Well done Dean. See a change is a good thing.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on January 01, 2020, 02:43:32 PM
clear he hasnt lost the players after that performance. It looked completely lost to me but change of formation clearly had a positive effect.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on January 01, 2020, 02:45:33 PM
Not that I don’t think smith has made mistakes in the the recent run of games, but I realised today the full extent of how unsuitable kodjia is to his approach.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on January 01, 2020, 02:46:43 PM
If the players are still with him - and it looks like they are - the fans ought to be too.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: supertom on January 01, 2020, 02:47:25 PM
Fair play to Deano. That's the kind of result (particularly when you change system and approach) that gets a result. Likewise it was good to see the players really grind out a result and work hard. The two games which will probably define our season will be Brighton and Watford. We've got to be getting 4 points absolute minimum from those. You can almost write off the City game, but any result in that is a huge bonus.

Just hope that confidence lifts the side going into a difficult set of league games. We can't 'Villa' this and return to type. Keep fighting, scrapping, working and improve. It looked at least like the players were playing for Dean today, that's he still has them onside.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on January 01, 2020, 02:49:29 PM
Well done Dean. Keep proving the doubters, including me, wrong.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Monty on January 01, 2020, 03:07:52 PM
Unlike Norwich, today want just a good result but also a good performance, much of which was clearly down to the manager. Fucking great stuff Deano.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Smirker on January 01, 2020, 03:29:36 PM
Well done to Dean, keep up the good work 👍
Hurt a bit seeing some turn on him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: London Villan on January 01, 2020, 03:31:03 PM
Pleased he made those massive changes. Great result, hope the injuries aren’t too bad.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Karlos96 on January 01, 2020, 03:39:01 PM
Be interesting to know what was said in the meeting with the players and the management in the week, looks like Smith has taken some of this on board though in changing the formation today.  Thought we played well today so hopefully this carries on now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Pete3206 on January 01, 2020, 03:47:19 PM
I thought the line up today was a gamble.

I'm happy to eat humble pie after that win.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villadelph on January 01, 2020, 03:58:04 PM
Credit where its due.. I am thrilled for Dean. Made a change after all this time and used the players at his disposal well.

Here's to hoping the board get him some fresh talent this window.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on January 01, 2020, 04:13:23 PM
Quote from: Roysmert on January 01, 2020, 12:11:22 PM

Agreed. Brian has a point though. People are very fond of you and Mac Dave, and extremely grateful for the site and the smooth running and time given by you. Don't ever let that cloud the fact that there can be and has been a bombastic approach by some mods and posters down the years but I guess that's life. Most on here aren't like you and I, and post under their own name, they use pseudonyms and they can take on whatever persona they like and no-one will know. People posting that they've felt victimised shouldn't lead to a post that says don't like it, then leave. Just my opinion.


Somehow I get the feeling hat Roy isn't your real name.  Maybe the number of letters in the name is similar though, who knows?!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: four fornicholl on January 01, 2020, 04:16:44 PM
Quote from: Risso on January 01, 2020, 04:13:23 PM
Quote from: Roysmert on January 01, 2020, 12:11:22 PM

Agreed. Brian has a point though. People are very fond of you and Mac Dave, and extremely grateful for the site and the smooth running and time given by you. Don't ever let that cloud the fact that there can be and has been a bombastic approach by some mods and posters down the years but I guess that's life. Most on here aren't like you and I, and post under their own name, they use pseudonyms and they can take on whatever persona they like and no-one will know. People posting that they've felt victimised shouldn't lead to a post that says don't like it, then leave. Just my opinion.


Somehow I get the feeling hat Roy isn't your real name.  Maybe the number of letters in the name is similar though, who knows?!
???
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Roysmert on January 01, 2020, 08:46:26 PM
Quote from: Risso on January 01, 2020, 04:13:23 PM
Quote from: Roysmert on January 01, 2020, 12:11:22 PM

Agreed. Brian has a point though. People are very fond of you and Mac Dave, and extremely grateful for the site and the smooth running and time given by you. Don't ever let that cloud the fact that there can be and has been a bombastic approach by some mods and posters down the years but I guess that's life. Most on here aren't like you and I, and post under their own name, they use pseudonyms and they can take on whatever persona they like and no-one will know. People posting that they've felt victimised shouldn't lead to a post that says don't like it, then leave. Just my opinion.


Somehow I get the feeling hat Roy isn't your real name.  Maybe the number of letters in the name is similar though, who knows?!

? Roy.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 04, 2020, 06:44:44 PM
Christ knows why Dean went back to 4-3-3. It can’t be played with no pace or strength. It was also a pathetic effort from players who should have been busting a gut to get in the team.

Rubbish from pretty much everyone involved.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on January 04, 2020, 06:54:05 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on January 01, 2020, 12:15:37 PM
Quote from: Roysmert on January 01, 2020, 12:11:22 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on January 01, 2020, 02:12:20 AM
Quote from: brian green on December 31, 2019, 09:36:04 PM
I can't  open your link Lee.  What does it say?  "Hi Brian we really appreciate the three quarters of a century you have followed the Villa home and away.  Your views on how Villa fans should behave towards each other is very important to us."  No?  No surprise there then.

The way people behave on here is important to us. And it cuts both ways.

Agreed. Brian has a point though. People are very fond of you and Mac Dave, and extremely grateful for the site and the smooth running and time given by you. Don't ever let that cloud the fact that there can be and has been a bombastic approach by some mods and posters down the years but I guess that's life. Most on here aren't like you and I, and post under their own name, they use pseudonyms and they can take on whatever persona they like and no-one will know. People posting that they've felt victimised shouldn't lead to a post that says don't like it, then leave. Just my opinion.

The wider issue is none of my business, but I wanted to post my agreement about the importance of posting under one's own name and not using pseudonyms.

I quite agree.

(https://alchetron.com/cdn/paulie-gualtieri-be5b218d-83f2-4c37-8f7a-a693843f74c-resize-750.jpeg)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on January 04, 2020, 07:51:04 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on January 04, 2020, 06:44:44 PM
Christ knows why Dean went back to 4-3-3. It can’t be played with no pace or strength. It was also a pathetic effort from players who should have been busting a gut to get in the team.

Rubbish from pretty much everyone involved.

I wonder if it is to keep future opposition guessing? 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Luke8 on January 04, 2020, 09:08:17 PM
Quote from: Newby on January 04, 2020, 07:51:04 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on January 04, 2020, 06:44:44 PM
Christ knows why Dean went back to 4-3-3. It can’t be played with no pace or strength. It was also a pathetic effort from players who should have been busting a gut to get in the team.

Rubbish from pretty much everyone involved.

I wonder if it is to keep future opposition guessing? 

Think it’s was mostly to do with injuries and fatigue. Konsa has just played four games in 15 days, Hause five in 18 and Mings is just back from injury. If 3-4-3 is the plan going forward it is pretty understandable to give them a rest given these circumstances.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: adrenachrome on January 04, 2020, 10:05:31 PM
Quote from: Luke8 on January 04, 2020, 09:08:17 PM
Quote from: Newby on January 04, 2020, 07:51:04 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on January 04, 2020, 06:44:44 PM
Christ knows why Dean went back to 4-3-3. It can’t be played with no pace or strength. It was also a pathetic effort from players who should have been busting a gut to get in the team.

Rubbish from pretty much everyone involved.

I wonder if it is to keep future opposition guessing? 

Think it’s was mostly to do with injuries and fatigue. Konsa has just played four games in 15 days, Hause five in 18 and Mings is just back from injury. If 3-4-3 is the plan going forward it is pretty understandable to give them a rest given these circumstances.

I thing this is right.

We trained with 3 at the back for one week, and DS didn't want to involve those players today.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on January 04, 2020, 11:19:54 PM

(https://i.ibb.co/k1rLk4B/Screenshot-20200104-231844.jpg) (https://ibb.co/k1rLk4B)


Not sure were else to put this, quality from Smith and the club.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on January 04, 2020, 11:22:35 PM
Well from the chefs really. Even if Dion doesn't rate them.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on January 05, 2020, 03:43:57 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on January 04, 2020, 11:19:54 PM

(https://i.ibb.co/k1rLk4B/Screenshot-20200104-231844.jpg) (https://ibb.co/k1rLk4B)


Not sure were else to put this, quality from Smith and the club.

I bet they regret asking Dean to give the half time team talk.

Carlisle 2 nil up at HT, Cardiff scored two in the first 10 minutes of the 2nd half. Sound familiar?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT on January 05, 2020, 04:42:00 PM
Impossible for a manager when he puts in fringe players who clearly don't give a fuck about playing for us. Some of the "efforts" put in were an absolute disgrace.

Watching other teams this weekend and seeing their fringe players busting a gut and making statements to their managers makes it even worse.

I'm just imaging Kodjia playing in this Liverpool / Everton game. It would look like he was playing backwards.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VILLA MOLE on January 05, 2020, 04:50:31 PM
Kodjia walks around like he is a super star , which if he made an effort and looked up and passed more , would be
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: N'ZMAV on January 05, 2020, 07:24:41 PM
Quote from: VILLA MOLE on January 05, 2020, 04:50:31 PM
Kodjia walks around like he is a super star , which if he made an effort and looked up and passed more , would be
so would I if someone paid me £2mil a year for doing fuck all.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: in exile on January 06, 2020, 02:54:24 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on January 01, 2020, 02:46:43 PM
If the players are still with him - and it looks like they are - the fans ought to be too.
My opinion - He's lost one and is well on his way to losing the other
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on January 06, 2020, 02:58:11 PM
Quote from: in exile on January 06, 2020, 02:54:24 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on January 01, 2020, 02:46:43 PM
If the players are still with him - and it looks like they are - the fans ought to be too.
My opinion - He's lost one and is well on his way to losing the other
He may have lost a few blokes on an internet forum but it seems far from that in the real world to me.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: West Derby Villan on January 06, 2020, 04:14:13 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on January 06, 2020, 02:58:11 PM
Quote from: in exile on January 06, 2020, 02:54:24 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on January 01, 2020, 02:46:43 PM
If the players are still with him - and it looks like they are - the fans ought to be too.
My opinion - He's lost one and is well on his way to losing the other
He may have lost a few blokes on an internet forum but it seems far from that in the real world to me.

Totally agree with your view Chris.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 08, 2020, 10:29:38 PM
Fair play to Dean Smith. With so many injuries to key players, with Kodjia out as well through illness came up with a brilliant game plan that really stifled Leicester all night. Sure we had a few scares. We played an excellent side and they are rightly beat the top of the PL. But the players fought really hard and but for a moment of incredible careless we might have got out with a win. Fight like that the rest of the season in the league we will stay up. But the tactics and display tonight has given us a real chance in the second leg. It’s all we could have asked for at the start of the evening.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: FatSam on January 08, 2020, 10:34:20 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on January 08, 2020, 10:29:38 PM
Fair play to Dean Smith. With so many injuries to key players, with Kodjia out as well through illness came up with a brilliant game plan that really stifled Leicester all night. Sure we had a few scares. We played an excellent side and they are rightly beat the top of the PL. But the players fought really hard and but for a moment of incredible careless we might have got out with a win. Fight like that the rest of the season in the league we will stay up. But the tactics and display tonight has given us a real chance in the second leg. It’s all we could have asked for at the start of the evening.
Agreed. We were really hanging on in the second half when the hame got stretched, but in the circumstances it was as good as could be expected. A reassuringly honest assessment of the game from Dean in his post match interview as well.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on January 08, 2020, 10:36:34 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on January 08, 2020, 10:29:38 PM
Fair play to Dean Smith. With so many injuries to key players, with Kodjia out as well through illness came up with a brilliant game plan that really stifled Leicester all night. the evening.
You're right.  He solved a real problem tonight, albeit one that should never have existed in the first place.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on January 08, 2020, 10:37:25 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on January 08, 2020, 10:36:34 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on January 08, 2020, 10:29:38 PM
Fair play to Dean Smith. With so many injuries to key players, with Kodjia out as well through illness came up with a brilliant game plan that really stifled Leicester all night. the evening.
You're right.  He solved a real problem tonight, albeit one that should never have existed in the first place.

Agreed.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on January 08, 2020, 10:38:54 PM
Got his game plan spot on tonight. Looked rightfully livid after the Leicester goal, hopefully he tore Luiz a new one afterwards. But well done Deano.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on January 08, 2020, 10:41:35 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on January 08, 2020, 10:38:54 PM
Got his game plan spot on tonight. Looked rightfully livid after the Leicester goal, hopefully he tore Luiz a new one afterwards. But well done Deano.

Luiz again looked like he was playing a second behind everyone else - however, that was a stupid fucking ball played to him in the first place.


So frustrating.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PGW on January 08, 2020, 10:41:54 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on January 08, 2020, 10:38:54 PM
Got his game plan spot on tonight. Looked rightfully livid after the Leicester goal, hopefully he tore Luiz a new one afterwards. But well done Deano.
I think i would be targetting Konsa for for the subject of my ire, knocking that free kick short to Luiz was criminal.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on January 08, 2020, 10:43:25 PM
They were both at fault certainly, but you can't be as naive as Luiz was, in his own half, facing his own goal. Had his pocket picked and all he needed to do was play it back whence it came.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: FrankyH on January 08, 2020, 10:47:04 PM
Just seen the post match interview , and he didn't appear happy with the performance. I understand we have a hard second leg to overcome , and he probably wants to play it down. But , Blimey Charlie Deano you have defended some turgid performances over the Christmas period and can't raise a smile for that one.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VILLA MOLE on January 08, 2020, 10:48:02 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on January 08, 2020, 10:43:25 PM
They were both at fault certainly, but you can't be as naive as Luiz was, in his own half, facing his own goal. Had his pocket picked and all he needed to do was play it back whence it came.



I think he could have laid it back first time , too many touches
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on January 08, 2020, 10:49:47 PM
He’s pinned it on konsa in his interview.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on January 08, 2020, 10:53:00 PM
Quote from: PGW on January 08, 2020, 10:41:54 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on January 08, 2020, 10:38:54 PM
Got his game plan spot on tonight. Looked rightfully livid after the Leicester goal, hopefully he tore Luiz a new one afterwards. But well done Deano.
I think i would be targetting Konsa for for the subject of my ire, knocking that free kick short to Luiz was criminal.

A premier league midfielder simply has to be comfortable receiving a ball like that. at a minimum, he should have protected the ball to draw a free kick, McGinn style. Or else play it back to Konsa, he dawdled and it cost us a goal. My fear is that he hides even more now from getting on the ball.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on January 08, 2020, 10:56:58 PM
Quote from: FrankyH on January 08, 2020, 10:47:04 PM
Just seen the post match interview , and he didn't appear happy with the performance. I understand we have a hard second leg to overcome , and he probably wants to play it down. But , Blimey Charlie Deano you have defended some turgid performances over the Christmas period and can't raise a smile for that one.

That's a bit odd alright.

I often think managers must see things we don't and forgive collective fuck-ups because they see individual elements that were worked on in training or whatever. Like an obsessive attention to detail with insight we don't have. The only explanation for an intelligent man constantly forgiving a range of poor performances.

What was worked on ahead of tonight, apart from the obvious defensive solidity, was probably the constant barrage of stupid mistakes being made in that area between defence and midfield. I'd say not just the Konsa/Luiz incident, but the Nakamba stuff also has pissed him right off. Maybe no harm in that, in the long run, tbh.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 08, 2020, 11:36:49 PM
I got the impression he is massively fucked off at the inability to retain the ball yet again and the way we conceded the goal. The game plan was working and we looked like we could get a massive win tonight and we let it slip. That’s got to be very frustrating as a manager. He’s been in a large part the reason we’ve not won games or kept leads. Tonight was squarely on a specific player as why we didn’t win the game as much as it was a club effort why we did so well most of the evening.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on January 09, 2020, 09:11:10 AM
He didn't get over excited or down, it's Smith's style to stay pretty calm and nonplussed regardless of the scoreline.

To be fair, we got a good result last night and the manager should take the credit. There was no over reliance on Grealish, just some good performances all round.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave shelley on January 09, 2020, 09:30:07 AM
Quote from: themossman on January 08, 2020, 10:49:47 PM
He’s pinned it on konsa in his interview.

I'd be more inclined to pin it on the short-sighted view that thought Wesley was enough strike power to see us through the season.  Konsa, shouldn't be absolved from his share of the blame but, we're in the seventy-fourth minute or so of a game we've been defending as though our lives depended upon it and I would respectfully suggest tiredness was a large factor in his thought process, there was no one up front to whack it to and, from what I could see very little movement to give him other options.  A real pity as we had done so well.  Konsa will become a very good player IMO.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on January 09, 2020, 09:45:38 AM
Great work again Deano last night. Loving the 3cbs.
Konsa played the ball to Luiz to retain possession. Luiz dawdled again and showed he is still not up to speed with the British game. He had plenty of time to do something when he received the pass from Konsa. If Smith (and Mings) was unhappy about anything it would have been Luiz's casual style at such an important stage in the game.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: frank black on January 09, 2020, 10:33:28 AM
Learning very fast, I like Dean and hope we don’t need to be talking about out/in anymore.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on January 09, 2020, 11:08:26 AM
It was a good battling display against an excellent side, but I can't get over excited about it being a Deano tactical masterclass.  Puttting 10 men behond the ball and inviting the opposition on for 90 mins was the sort of stuff Bruce used to get slated for.  Our inability to get out showed our midfield just aren't functioning.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on January 09, 2020, 11:17:51 AM
Post-match on WM (https://audioboom.com/posts/7473434-dean-smith-post-leicester)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nev on January 09, 2020, 11:29:15 AM
Quote from: chrisw1 on January 09, 2020, 11:08:26 AM
It was a good battling display against an excellent side, but I can't get over excited about it being a Deano tactical masterclass.  Puttting 10 men behond the ball and inviting the opposition on for 90 mins was the sort of stuff Bruce used to get slated for.  Our inability to get out showed our midfield just aren't functioning.

Quite right but that's down to the players in the middle being sub standard last night. It was no tactical masterclass as you say but Smith showed bravery last night when it would've been easier to be cautious. He showed his intransigence and rather cowardly side in persisting with his formation pre NYD but that change has given this season a lift and some optimism for the future and his decision not to play an out and out striker was a risk that more or less paid off. He could have left one of our two best players on the bench but didn't. How many managers have we bemoaned for being over cautious, particularly when up against it in cup games, almost waving the white flag as they get off the coach?
The ability to adapt and change, accept criticism and acknowledge your own misgivings is as vital as anything in management, and for Smith to become a top manager or coach he must do the same and there are signs that he might.

I was on the verge of giving up on him after Watford, there is a long way to go but my hope that he becomes a Villa great has been restored and I pray my faith is repaid.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on January 09, 2020, 11:32:55 AM
I don't think it was his decision not to play a striker, it was more a case of we only had Indy and Cam as fit strikers.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on January 09, 2020, 11:50:35 AM
Quote from: Nev on January 09, 2020, 11:29:15 AM
Quote from: chrisw1 on January 09, 2020, 11:08:26 AM
It was a good battling display against an excellent side, but I can't get over excited about it being a Deano tactical masterclass.  Puttting 10 men behond the ball and inviting the opposition on for 90 mins was the sort of stuff Bruce used to get slated for.  Our inability to get out showed our midfield just aren't functioning.

Quite right but that's down to the players in the middle being sub standard last night. It was no tactical masterclass as you say but Smith showed bravery last night when it would've been easier to be cautious. He showed his intransigence and rather cowardly side in persisting with his formation pre NYD but that change has given this season a lift and some optimism for the future and his decision not to play an out and out striker was a risk that more or less paid off. He could have left one of our two best players on the bench but didn't. How many managers have we bemoaned for being over cautious, particularly when up against it in cup games, almost waving the white flag as they get off the coach?
The ability to adapt and change, accept criticism and acknowledge your own misgivings is as vital as anything in management, and for Smith to become a top manager or coach he must do the same and there are signs that he might.

I was on the verge of giving up on him after Watford, there is a long way to go but my hope that he becomes a Villa great has been restored and I pray my faith is repaid.


I'm sorry but I hate this word 'cowardly' that keeps getting thrown about in here and your use of it is just bollocks.  Playing 10 men behind the ball is not brave and if we had lost as we could easily have done were it not for some excellent saves and blocks, then people may well have said it was waving a white flag.  If you invite pressure for 90 mins more often than not you will lose.  It was a good backs to the wall performance, but tactically brave?  Not for me. 

And arguably sticking to your principals when under pressure as Smith did pre new year can be brave not cowardly.  I'm not saying he shouldn't have made some changes earlier in the season, but not doing so was nothing to do with being a coward.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nev on January 09, 2020, 01:16:42 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on January 09, 2020, 11:50:35 AM
Quote from: Nev on January 09, 2020, 11:29:15 AM
Quote from: chrisw1 on January 09, 2020, 11:08:26 AM
It was a good battling display against an excellent side, but I can't get over excited about it being a Deano tactical masterclass.  Puttting 10 men behond the ball and inviting the opposition on for 90 mins was the sort of stuff Bruce used to get slated for.  Our inability to get out showed our midfield just aren't functioning.

Quite right but that's down to the players in the middle being sub standard last night. It was no tactical masterclass as you say but Smith showed bravery last night when it would've been easier to be cautious. He showed his intransigence and rather cowardly side in persisting with his formation pre NYD but that change has given this season a lift and some optimism for the future and his decision not to play an out and out striker was a risk that more or less paid off. He could have left one of our two best players on the bench but didn't. How many managers have we bemoaned for being over cautious, particularly when up against it in cup games, almost waving the white flag as they get off the coach?
The ability to adapt and change, accept criticism and acknowledge your own misgivings is as vital as anything in management, and for Smith to become a top manager or coach he must do the same and there are signs that he might.

I was on the verge of giving up on him after Watford, there is a long way to go but my hope that he becomes a Villa great has been restored and I pray my faith is repaid.


I'm sorry but I hate this word 'cowardly' that keeps getting thrown about in here and your use of it is just bollocks.  Playing 10 men behind the ball is not brave and if we had lost as we could easily have done were it not for some excellent saves and blocks, then people may well have said it was waving a white flag.  If you invite pressure for 90 mins more often than not you will lose.  It was a good backs to the wall performance, but tactically brave?  Not for me. 

And arguably sticking to your principals when under pressure as Smith did pre new year can be brave not cowardly.  I'm not saying he shouldn't have made some changes earlier in the season, but not doing so was nothing to do with being a coward.

So how should he have played it then? We'd have been well beaten if we'd have played more openly, we've already seen it this season and to not learn from that would've been foolish. They have better players and are a better team than us, that doesn't make them unbeatable but over two games they would always be the likely winners but last nights result brings it down to a single game at home.
But for the blocks and saves, yes we would have been beaten, but for the bar we might've won the game. Had we taken a beating, my disappointment would've been tempered by the fact that we played our best team.

There have been and probably will be opportunities to hammer Smith but in this case he got a result and fair fucks to him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clark W Griswold on January 09, 2020, 01:25:35 PM
Yep, swap Nakamba, Luiz and Trez for Viera, Keane and Henry and we'd have fuckin' hammered 'em.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on January 09, 2020, 01:27:53 PM
I'm not saying he should have played it differently, the results speaks for itself.  I'm just saying it was no tactical masterclass nor was it particulaly brave.  I'm also saying there was nothing cowardly about the way we were setting up before.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: not3bad on January 09, 2020, 01:50:49 PM
I think as opposed to 'brave' and 'cowardly' more appropriate descriptive words would be 'flexible' and 'stubborn'. Before Christmas Smith was being stubborn in his formation and tactics. Recently he has demonstrated more tactical flexibility which hopefully will protect both our Premier League status and his job. And, who knows, it might get us to a cup final.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on January 09, 2020, 02:02:36 PM
I can work with that.  I just have a particular issue with the term cowardly, which gets used a lot on here.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on January 10, 2020, 10:22:50 AM
Quote from: chrisw1 on January 09, 2020, 11:08:26 AM
It was a good battling display against an excellent side, but I can't get over excited about it being a Deano tactical masterclass.  Puttting 10 men behond the ball and inviting the opposition on for 90 mins was the sort of stuff Bruce used to get slated for.  Our inability to get out showed our midfield just aren't functioning.

couldn't agree more with that assessment

i also agree with you about the word cowardly
there's not many worst insults than that in my view and one that i never use on here

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nev on January 10, 2020, 10:49:40 AM
Quote from: john e on January 10, 2020, 10:22:50 AM
Quote from: chrisw1 on January 09, 2020, 11:08:26 AM
It was a good battling display against an excellent side, but I can't get over excited about it being a Deano tactical masterclass.  Puttting 10 men behond the ball and inviting the opposition on for 90 mins was the sort of stuff Bruce used to get slated for.  Our inability to get out showed our midfield just aren't functioning.

couldn't agree more with that assessment

i also agree with you about the word cowardly
there's not many worst insults than that in my view and one that i never use on here



I must clarify what I mean when I use that word.

I have grown weary over the years of watching unambitious, cautious and intransigent managers for both us and other teams. Their Raison D'etre appears to be the ultimate in self preservation. Playing football that will just about do, that will get expected results but rarely unexpected. Forgoing having a go for letting go and acceptance of what they believe inevitable. That soul destroying approach, grindingly predictable, awful, percentages football at every turn. That's not to say that pragmatism should be done away with altogether but to be used constantly is beyond awful.

We've seen plenty of it, "we can't compete with the so and so's of this world", "that's the championship etc etc", "just because they won the European Cup" that abdication of responsibility with a shrug of the shoulders intended to ensure that their job is safe due to other circumstances. It's the officials, injuries, the pitch, it's not me guv. Keep it tight, a 1-0 loss, play it safe, too open might lead to 3-0 and the sack.

Pulis, Pardew, Allardyce, Hughes, Warnock and our very own DOL, Lambert and Bruce. The latter being a prime example of this style of management in his approach to the Play Off Final, I can't see what else you could call it other than a cowardly approach, it certainly showed no bravery. But the words are used in a strictly football management sense, no one would accuse Bruce of cowardice as a player.

I heard echoes of it in Dean's comments after the Watford debacle but it looks like a false alarm.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on January 10, 2020, 10:58:51 AM
Thing is Nev, this goes completely against your previous comments.  You said when Smith was sticking to his principles and playing his preferred system (which was at least asn attempt at progressive football) that was cowardly.

You went on to say his approach against Leicester, which was pretty much everying you describe above except for the result, was brave.

I'm sorry to labour this point and you're just copping it for over use of the term by many posters over the last few years, but I just don't see how you can justify that analysis.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on January 10, 2020, 11:53:47 AM
Quote from: chrisw1 on January 10, 2020, 10:58:51 AM
Thing is Nev, this goes completely against your previous comments.  You said when Smith was sticking to his principles and playing his preferred system (which was at least asn attempt at progressive football) that was cowardly.

You went on to say his approach against Leicester, which was pretty much everying you describe above except for the result, was brave.

I'm sorry to labour this point and you're just copping it for over use of the term by many posters over the last few years, but I just don't see how you can justify that analysis.

He puts butter on a bacon sandwich, what do you expect?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KevinGage on January 10, 2020, 11:55:42 AM
Quote from: LeeB on January 10, 2020, 11:53:47 AM
Quote from: chrisw1 on January 10, 2020, 10:58:51 AM
Thing is Nev, this goes completely against your previous comments.  You said when Smith was sticking to his principles and playing his preferred system (which was at least asn attempt at progressive football) that was cowardly.

You went on to say his approach against Leicester, which was pretty much everying you describe above except for the result, was brave.

I'm sorry to labour this point and you're just copping it for over use of the term by many posters over the last few years, but I just don't see how you can justify that analysis.

He puts butter on a bacon sandwich, what do you expect?

Philistine.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on January 10, 2020, 11:59:07 AM
There's nothing cowardly about setting a team up to handle the strengths of the opposition, for Leicester that's drawing teams forward and then using Vardy's pace in behind. For me our tactic was to let them have the ball in their own half but press hard in ours and keep the defensive line pretty deep to reduce the space behind us. I don't think there was an intention for us to have so little possession at times but we conceded it so we could retain our shape. Where I have issues with playing that way is when it's all you ever do in the hope that you'll be able to counter-attack quickly and a bit of quality will win you the points, that's the difference between Smith and Bruce.

However I also don't see sticking to a formation or player despite fan pressure as cowardly either, I think that comes from a degree of self-confidence in the form of "I know this will work if I give it time". I think you can be cowardly by changing things too quickly as much as by refusing to adapt, the best managers are the ones that strike a good balance between the 2.


However I agree with Nev that the quotes he gave are rubbish and are good examples of the shit that gets thrown at us far too often by managers who are out of their depth. The key thing is that we need to not employ bullshitters so often.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on January 10, 2020, 12:20:38 PM
Quote from: john e on January 10, 2020, 10:22:50 AM
Quote from: chrisw1 on January 09, 2020, 11:08:26 AM
It was a good battling display against an excellent side, but I can't get over excited about it being a Deano tactical masterclass.  Puttting 10 men behond the ball and inviting the opposition on for 90 mins was the sort of stuff Bruce used to get slated for.  Our inability to get out showed our midfield just aren't functioning.

couldn't agree more with that assessment

i also agree with you about the word cowardly
there's not many worst insults than that in my view and one that i never use on here

Coward!  ;)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 10, 2020, 01:36:14 PM
I thought the 3 up front did ok, the problem as ever was in the midfield and our lack of ball retention.
We give the ball away so easily and invite pressure.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chris Smith on January 10, 2020, 02:14:52 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on January 10, 2020, 01:36:14 PM
I thought the 3 up front did ok, the problem as ever was in the midfield and our lack of ball retention.
We give the ball away so easily and invite pressure.

I agree, maybe that is something Drinkwater will help with.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on January 10, 2020, 03:19:24 PM
Quote from: Chris Smith on January 10, 2020, 02:14:52 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on January 10, 2020, 01:36:14 PM
I thought the 3 up front did ok, the problem as ever was in the midfield and our lack of ball retention.
We give the ball away so easily and invite pressure.

I agree, maybe that is something Drinkwater will help with.

We need water retention?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on January 12, 2020, 05:34:54 PM
Not a coward .....just clueless
Totally out of his league and so will we be soon
Tactics, team selection, player recruitment, motivational skills all very poor
If the owners still think he is the man for the job we are screwed,certainly this season
I expected a footballing lesson from Citeh but not to be totally embarrassed like that first half ........sorry Dean but your taxi is waiting
Drinkwater and Reina what on earth is the thinking behind those two?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dazvillain on January 12, 2020, 05:41:36 PM
The bigger picture thinking really in interests me in times like this on how new wealthy owners with ambition, having just given a new 4 yr contract to DS.
 How much will they spend in next 2 weeks to back him, or cautious wages approach with more championship football in mind, how/why will they continue to back DS given some of his recent selections, coaching decisions and game plans ?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aev on January 12, 2020, 05:44:04 PM
I reckon they clearly have to be concerned about FFP as after working so hard to get out the Championship we appear to be going straight back down with a squad that hasn’t really been fit for purpose.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on January 12, 2020, 05:45:13 PM
i suspect nothing further will be spent which is why we've ended up with Drinkwater and Reina
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Demitri_C on January 12, 2020, 05:48:07 PM
Disgrace.  Has to go
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 12, 2020, 06:05:08 PM
Good work Dean.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 13, 2020, 04:58:23 AM
We keep seeing decisions that make absolutely no sense.
Add yesterday’s midfield to the list of Dean Smith fuck ups.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: supertom on January 13, 2020, 10:31:14 AM
To put out a team that defensive minded and then get absolutely shredded 6-1 is unforgivable. 6 from 6 in the next two, or down to the doll office. Nothing less.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 13, 2020, 11:26:16 AM
The thought of someone like Allardyce isn’t one that anyone wants to contemplate. No different to thought of Nigel Pearson as manager. The thought of relegation is much, much worse than that. I would sooner get in anyone right now with a reputation for making us solid and survive this season, much like West Ham just did with Moyes and build again. We need to establish ourselves as a PL club before we get ahead of ourselves with delusions of grandeur as to what we could be one day.

I take no pleasure at suggesting him, but I take less pleasure in considering the inevitable if we stick with the current manager
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on January 13, 2020, 11:38:56 AM
Quote from: supertom on January 13, 2020, 10:31:14 AM
To put out a team that defensive minded and then get absolutely shredded 6-1 is unforgivable. 6 from 6 in the next two, or down to the doll office. Nothing less.

We'll be lucky to get two draws. I do fancy us at Bournemouth though, that's one we really have to win I think.

30 points by end of Sheffield United game at start of March needs to be the target and then a point a game from last 10 will probably be enough.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: lukey27 on January 13, 2020, 12:25:19 PM
Yesterday was shocking, no question. But they can do that to a lot of sides, they nearly did the same to Man Utd in midweek, they could have easily been 5 or 6 up at the break in that game.

The most disappointing thing yesterday was how we didn't learn in game. Some of the players are just as culpable as the manager.  When our centre halves had the ball first half, the full backs needed to be much, much higher and give them an option with the high diagonal. Essentially we were completely flummoxed by the high press and the fact we haven't played this formation consistently was found out in the very worst way.

I'd give this manager the rest of the season at least. Next three games, get Guilbert and Targett back in, get another attacking player in, play closer to 3-4-3 and lets see where we go. I understand doom and gloom, but people saying he's useless and out of his depth is very unfair. This is a bloke who got us promoted and won 10 in a row in the Championship. He deserves a little bit more respect.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mallo on January 13, 2020, 12:37:22 PM
Stay solid against Bournemouth and we'll have a decent chance. Watford I reckon are too good for us at the moment. Waiting for Burnley to self destruct is a very dicey strategy. We simply have to get some strikers in. We also need a reaction after that display.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on January 13, 2020, 12:44:00 PM
Relegation would be disastrous for the club so we have to give ourselves the best possible chance of avoiding it.  If that means replacing Smith with someone else then so be it; respecting him for getting us out of the Championship is fine but it counts for the square root of fuck all if he takes us straight back down.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: lukey27 on January 13, 2020, 12:52:03 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on January 13, 2020, 12:44:00 PM
Relegation would be disastrous for the club so we have to give ourselves the best possible chance of avoiding it.  If that means replacing Smith with someone else then so be it; respecting him for getting us out of the Championship is fine but it counts for the square root of fuck all if he takes us straight back down.

You could currently replace him with Klopp and the squad he inherits would still have the same issues. The recruitment was been woeful. Yes as manager he needs to take his portion of the blame for this, but this squad is probably about 17th or 18th best in this league. Hence the league position. I'll be judging him against similar squads / teams in the next three. He and the team are capable of getting results and more than that deserve the chance to put this right.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on January 13, 2020, 12:57:14 PM
Quote from: lukey27 on January 13, 2020, 12:52:03 PM
You could currently replace him with Klopp and the squad he inherits would still have the same issues.
The players would still have the same physical issues, lack of speed, strength etc, but I refuse to believe Smith is getting as much out of these players as anyone could.  He's getting virtually nothing out of them.  I think it's absurd to think no-one could do better.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: lukey27 on January 13, 2020, 01:01:43 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on January 13, 2020, 12:57:14 PM
The players would still have the same physical issues, lack of speed, strength etc, but I refuse to believe Smith is getting as much out of these players as anyone could.  He's getting virtually nothing out of them.  I think it's absurd to think no-one could do better.

I'm definitely not saying that, but it's a massive risk. With Watford, less so, their squad is comfortably good enough to stay up in the league. With us, a manager change guarantees us nothing other than a massive pay-out and more turmoil. The Burnley game shows the team still has a pulse in the league. Lets see if they can back that up with a similar disciplined performance at Brighton
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on January 13, 2020, 01:08:42 PM
I think it's gone too far.  He's clearly not happy with the current set up, and even if Pitarch does pull a couple of transfer rabbits out of the hat, can you really see Smith getting the best out of them? 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on January 13, 2020, 01:10:23 PM
Quote from: lukey27 on January 13, 2020, 01:01:43 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on January 13, 2020, 12:57:14 PM
The players would still have the same physical issues, lack of speed, strength etc, but I refuse to believe Smith is getting as much out of these players as anyone could.  He's getting virtually nothing out of them.  I think it's absurd to think no-one could do better.

I'm definitely not saying that, but it's a massive risk. With Watford, less so, their squad is comfortably good enough to stay up in the league. With us, a manager change guarantees us nothing other than a massive pay-out and more turmoil. The Burnley game shows the team still has a pulse in the league. Lets see if they can back that up with a similar disciplined performance at Brighton
It's also a massive risk to stick with a manager who has presided over poor results and dismal performances.  I don't see him bringing about a drastic improvement in either.  What's going to change?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on January 13, 2020, 01:21:47 PM
It sickens me to say it but Gold and Sullivan showed how it must be done.  Save your Premiership status while you still can.  It is not so much the playing performances that make us look bereft, though they do, it is the inescapable impression that there is turmoil behind the scenes at Villa Park that bodes so ill.  So reminiscent of the last time we gave our necks.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on January 13, 2020, 01:23:00 PM
Quote from: brian green on January 13, 2020, 01:21:47 PM
It sickens me to say it but Gold and Sullivan showed how it must be done.  Save your Premiership status while you still can.  It is not so much the playing performances that make us look bereft, though they do, it is the inescapable impression that there is turmoil behind the scenes at Villa Park that bodes so ill.  So reminiscent of the last time we gave our necks.

I can imagine the response on here if the owners re-hired a manager they had previously sacked.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on January 13, 2020, 01:25:22 PM
Quote from: Clampy on January 13, 2020, 01:23:00 PM
Quote from: brian green on January 13, 2020, 01:21:47 PM
It sickens me to say it but Gold and Sullivan showed how it must be done.  Save your Premiership status while you still can.  It is not so much the playing performances that make us look bereft, though they do, it is the inescapable impression that there is turmoil behind the scenes at Villa Park that bodes so ill.  So reminiscent of the last time we gave our necks.

I can imagine the response on here if the owners re-hired a manager they had previously sacked.

The ones who had any level of success are either dead or haven't managed a team for over 20 years.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: auntiesledd on January 13, 2020, 01:25:54 PM
Quote from: Risso on January 13, 2020, 01:08:42 PM
I think it's gone too far.  He's clearly not happy with the current set up, and even if Pitarch does pull a couple of transfer rabbits out of the hat, can you really see Smith getting the best out of them? 

I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that there's a whole lot more wrong at the club in addition to DS being completely out of his depth. Would bringing in a manager/coach lead to an improvement in performance & results? God only knows. Given we seem to be heading for a rapid return to the Championship, I wouldn't be surprised if the owners have decided to stick with Smith - since he managed to get us promoted before. How quickly our early-season optimism has turned to utter shite. Meh.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TheMalandro on January 13, 2020, 01:30:57 PM
Quote from: Clampy on January 13, 2020, 01:23:00 PM
Quote from: brian green on January 13, 2020, 01:21:47 PM
It sickens me to say it but Gold and Sullivan showed how it must be done.  Save your Premiership status while you still can.  It is not so much the playing performances that make us look bereft, though they do, it is the inescapable impression that there is turmoil behind the scenes at Villa Park that bodes so ill.  So reminiscent of the last time we gave our necks.

I can imagine the response on here if the owners re-hired a manager they had previously sacked.

I'm sure you'd be delighted to have Bruce back.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on January 13, 2020, 01:32:47 PM
Quote from: TheMalandro on January 13, 2020, 01:30:57 PM
Quote from: Clampy on January 13, 2020, 01:23:00 PM
Quote from: brian green on January 13, 2020, 01:21:47 PM
It sickens me to say it but Gold and Sullivan showed how it must be done.  Save your Premiership status while you still can.  It is not so much the playing performances that make us look bereft, though they do, it is the inescapable impression that there is turmoil behind the scenes at Villa Park that bodes so ill.  So reminiscent of the last time we gave our necks.

I can imagine the response on here if the owners re-hired a manager they had previously sacked.

I'm sure you'd be delighted to have Bruce back.

No, I wouldn't and that's kind of my point.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on January 13, 2020, 02:09:07 PM
Plus ça Change :(
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on January 13, 2020, 02:21:07 PM
Quote from: brian green on January 13, 2020, 01:21:47 PM
It sickens me to say it but Gold and Sullivan showed how it must be done.  Save your Premiership status while you still can.  It is not so much the playing performances that make us look bereft, though they do, it is the inescapable impression that there is turmoil behind the scenes at Villa Park that bodes so ill.  So reminiscent of the last time we gave our necks.
But Brian you were at the front of the charge saying a Bruce type manager was the last thing we needed in the PL and the days for that type of dinosaur football is long gone.  Are you prepared to throw all that principle away to get into bed with the Devil (an Alardyce / Moyes or the like)?

Personally I'd prefer to stick with Smith and hope he can get it right.  I appreciate relegation will be a disaster, but I'd rather scrape through with Smith than tear everying up and go back 10 steps in terms of philosophy.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on January 13, 2020, 02:56:41 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on January 13, 2020, 02:21:07 PM
Quote from: brian green on January 13, 2020, 01:21:47 PM
It sickens me to say it but Gold and Sullivan showed how it must be done.  Save your Premiership status while you still can.  It is not so much the playing performances that make us look bereft, though they do, it is the inescapable impression that there is turmoil behind the scenes at Villa Park that bodes so ill.  So reminiscent of the last time we gave our necks.
But Brian you were at the front of the charge saying a Bruce type manager was the last thing we needed in the PL and the days for that type of dinosaur football is long gone.  Are you prepared to throw all that principle away to get into bed with the Devil (an Alardyce / Moyes or the like)?

Personally I'd prefer to stick with Smith and hope he can get it right.  I appreciate relegation will be a disaster, but I'd rather scrape through with Smith than tear everying up and go back 10 steps in terms of philosophy.

so would I but right now he’s looking more like Bruce than Bruce’y himself
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on January 13, 2020, 03:09:17 PM
John
You are right, the 10 men behind the ball v Leicester & City was very reminicent of Bruce that's why dispite the decent result I was surprised how much credit Smith got for the Leicester game from some as without some exceptional blocks and saves it could easily have gone the other way.  But Smith was doing it against the best teams in the league when we don't have any fit strikers.  Bruce was doing it against Middlesborough in Play-off semi-finals (which was pretty much when my views I turned on him)

I think the difference is we know Smith wants to play progressive football and given the tools to do so he will.  The injuries to an already thin squad have hurt us massively.  I still think if we can get a couple of quality players in Smith has a decent chance of turning it round.  Looks like it's a big if though.  I think even Allardyce would struggle to come up with a plan for our current squad.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ASHTONVILLA on January 13, 2020, 03:46:37 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on January 13, 2020, 02:21:07 PM
But Brian you were at the front of the charge saying a Bruce type manager was the last thing we needed in the PL and the days for that type of dinosaur football is long gone.  Are you prepared to throw all that principle away to get into bed with the Devil (an Alardyce / Moyes or the like)?

Allardyce is a far better manager than Bruce will ever be, and does not deserve to be labelled a dinosaur. I think he would keep us up and then establish us midtable next season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on January 13, 2020, 04:16:53 PM
No chrisw1 that not what I am saying at all.  We are where we are because of Bruce (and McLeish, Lambert, Roberto Di Matteo, Sherwood, Garde, KMac and Black) and a famine of managerial talent at Villa Park. Exacerbated by selfish, naive, carpetbagging owners.  I wanted Dean Smith to be the manager he was at Brentford, brash, aggressive and inspirational.  He was a Wilder but he wanted to be a Wenger and has lost his way and his mojo.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on January 13, 2020, 04:21:27 PM
On the 8th Devember at 13:59, he hadn't lost his mojo or his way.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on January 13, 2020, 04:23:46 PM
Quote from: brian green on January 13, 2020, 04:16:53 PM
No chrisw1 that not what I am saying at all.  We are where we are because of Bruce (and McLeish, Lambert, Roberto Di Matteo, Sherwood, Garde, KMac and Black) and a famine of managerial talent at Villa Park. Exacerbated by selfish, naive, carpetbagging owners.  I wanted Dean Smith to be the manager he was at Brentford, brash, aggressive and inspirational.  He was a Wilder but he wanted to be a Wenger and has lost his way and his mojo.
But you were praising West Ham's bravery for appointing Moyes?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on January 13, 2020, 04:24:32 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on January 13, 2020, 04:23:46 PM
Quote from: brian green on January 13, 2020, 04:16:53 PM
No chrisw1 that not what I am saying at all.  We are where we are because of Bruce (and McLeish, Lambert, Roberto Di Matteo, Sherwood, Garde, KMac and Black) and a famine of managerial talent at Villa Park. Exacerbated by selfish, naive, carpetbagging owners.  I wanted Dean Smith to be the manager he was at Brentford, brash, aggressive and inspirational.  He was a Wilder but he wanted to be a Wenger and has lost his way and his mojo.
But you were praising West Ham's bravery for appointing Moyes?

He does win though. It's what he does. (Except when he loses, like their last game)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on January 13, 2020, 04:29:32 PM
Dean's fucked  - he knows it , the players know it and we know it. Just listen to that post match interview. When you stop and analyse it, the defense  ships too many goals, the midfield is too lightweight and the forwards are just useless. We have one stand out player and brilliant as he is, he isn't going to keep us up single handed.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on January 13, 2020, 04:44:00 PM
Quote from: ASHTONVILLA on January 13, 2020, 03:46:37 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on January 13, 2020, 02:21:07 PM
But Brian you were at the front of the charge saying a Bruce type manager was the last thing we needed in the PL and the days for that type of dinosaur football is long gone.  Are you prepared to throw all that principle away to get into bed with the Devil (an Alardyce / Moyes or the like)?

Allardyce is a far better manager than Bruce will ever be, and does not deserve to be labelled a dinosaur. I think he would keep us up and then establish us midtable next season.



I have already said that Allardyce would keep us up this season and take us forward next season. He did it with Blackburn, Sunderland, Palace and Everton. I don't understand why so many people look down their nose at him given his track record. He is far from a dinosaur and was ahead of his time regarding sports science after his spell in the USA. Stuff the long term and concentrate on the next four months for now. Reevaluate and regroup in the summer.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: achilles on January 13, 2020, 05:18:31 PM
We either sack him before the window closes or keep him till the end of the season (and let him try and get us back up next season)!

To be honest I have no problem with Allardyce either, he has proved that he gets results!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KevinGage on January 13, 2020, 05:55:28 PM
Quote from: ASHTONVILLA on January 13, 2020, 03:46:37 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on January 13, 2020, 02:21:07 PM
But Brian you were at the front of the charge saying a Bruce type manager was the last thing we needed in the PL and the days for that type of dinosaur football is long gone.  Are you prepared to throw all that principle away to get into bed with the Devil (an Alardyce / Moyes or the like)?

Allardyce is a far better manager than Bruce will ever be, and does not deserve to be labelled a dinosaur. I think he would keep us up and then establish us midtable next season.

I hoped we wouldn't be having this sort of discussion but there is logic to it.

Sadly.

With our lack of draws we'd need to grind out at least five wins between now and the end of the season. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mellin on January 13, 2020, 06:14:41 PM
It's the lack of draws that have hurt us. We've actually only won one less than Wolves and Sheff Utd, but they turn defeats in to draws and we turn draws in to defeats.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on January 13, 2020, 06:23:29 PM
Quote from: Mellin on January 13, 2020, 06:14:41 PM
It's the lack of draws that have hurt us. We've actually only won one less than Wolves and Sheff Utd, but they turn defeats in to draws and we turn draws in to defeats.

As I mentioned elsewhere, it's the defence that has really letting us down. Wolves have only scored 3 more goals than us, Sheff Utd have scored 4 less than us but we've conceded more than double than them. Only Norwich have conceded more - two more.

We're the ninth highest scorers in the league with the second worst defence.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 13, 2020, 06:37:11 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on January 13, 2020, 06:23:29 PM
Quote from: Mellin on January 13, 2020, 06:14:41 PM
It's the lack of draws that have hurt us. We've actually only won one less than Wolves and Sheff Utd, but they turn defeats in to draws and we turn draws in to defeats.

As I mentioned elsewhere, it's the defence that has really letting us down. Wolves have only scored 3 more goals than us, Sheff Utd have scored 4 less than us but we've conceded more than double than them. Only Norwich have conceded more - two more.

We're the ninth highest scorers in the league with the second worst defence.

In part it goes to personnel. We have the worst grouping of full backs in the division. We have made horrible mistakes at the back across all of our CB’s. And then we don’t play as a group, so often there are massive gaps between our midfield and forwards. I would have thought the priority would have been just as you described Sheff Utd. They have a lot of league one and Championship players who have been coached really well and are not punching well above their weight in the PL. They have incredible discipline and a well thought out structure. We don’t and it shows week after week.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on January 13, 2020, 06:42:46 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on January 13, 2020, 06:37:11 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on January 13, 2020, 06:23:29 PM
Quote from: Mellin on January 13, 2020, 06:14:41 PM
It's the lack of draws that have hurt us. We've actually only won one less than Wolves and Sheff Utd, but they turn defeats in to draws and we turn draws in to defeats.

As I mentioned elsewhere, it's the defence that has really letting us down. Wolves have only scored 3 more goals than us, Sheff Utd have scored 4 less than us but we've conceded more than double than them. Only Norwich have conceded more - two more.

We're the ninth highest scorers in the league with the second worst defence.

In part it goes to personnel. We have the worst grouping of full backs in the division. We have made horrible mistakes at the back across all of our CB’s. And then we don’t play as a group, so often there are massive gaps between our midfield and forwards. I would have thought the priority would have been just as you described Sheff Utd. They have a lot of league one and Championship players who have been coached really well and are not punching well above their weight in the PL. They have incredible discipline and a well thought out structure. We don’t and it shows week after week.

And that squad have been drilled, and drilled, and drilled, together for over 3 years.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on January 13, 2020, 06:44:47 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on January 13, 2020, 06:37:11 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on January 13, 2020, 06:23:29 PM
Quote from: Mellin on January 13, 2020, 06:14:41 PM
It's the lack of draws that have hurt us. We've actually only won one less than Wolves and Sheff Utd, but they turn defeats in to draws and we turn draws in to defeats.

As I mentioned elsewhere, it's the defence that has really letting us down. Wolves have only scored 3 more goals than us, Sheff Utd have scored 4 less than us but we've conceded more than double than them. Only Norwich have conceded more - two more.

We're the ninth highest scorers in the league with the second worst defence.

In part it goes to personnel. We have the worst grouping of full backs in the division. We have made horrible mistakes at the back across all of our CB’s. And then we don’t play as a group, so often there are massive gaps between our midfield and forwards. I would have thought the priority would have been just as you described Sheff Utd. They have a lot of league one and Championship players who have been coached really well and are not punching well above their weight in the PL. They have incredible discipline and a well thought out structure. We don’t and it shows week after week.

Indeed. Rule Number One for survival in your first season in the PL is be hard to beat. Build from a solid defence.

Dean's Rule Number One is to play open attacking football and hope to score more goals than the opposition.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 13, 2020, 06:46:36 PM
Quote from: Drummond on January 13, 2020, 06:42:46 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on January 13, 2020, 06:37:11 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on January 13, 2020, 06:23:29 PM
Quote from: Mellin on January 13, 2020, 06:14:41 PM
It's the lack of draws that have hurt us. We've actually only won one less than Wolves and Sheff Utd, but they turn defeats in to draws and we turn draws in to defeats.

As I mentioned elsewhere, it's the defence that has really letting us down. Wolves have only scored 3 more goals than us, Sheff Utd have scored 4 less than us but we've conceded more than double than them. Only Norwich have conceded more - two more.

We're the ninth highest scorers in the league with the second worst defence.

In part it goes to personnel. We have the worst grouping of full backs in the division. We have made horrible mistakes at the back across all of our CB’s. And then we don’t play as a group, so often there are massive gaps between our midfield and forwards. I would have thought the priority would have been just as you described Sheff Utd. They have a lot of league one and Championship players who have been coached really well and are not punching well above their weight in the PL. They have incredible discipline and a well thought out structure. We don’t and it shows week after week.

And that squad have been drilled, and drilled, and drilled, together for over 3 years.

No doubt Drummond. I’m not taking away from the magnitude of the task at hand when recruiting and integrating as many players as we did. But given that the system of 4-3-3 is far too open for the PL for a club in our position. It was tactically naive to go in our first season back with only that plan which is what he stuck with until very recently. And especially when you consider we had an experienced striker at the top to glue our attacks together.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Luke8 on January 13, 2020, 07:08:53 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on January 13, 2020, 06:37:11 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on January 13, 2020, 06:23:29 PM
Quote from: Mellin on January 13, 2020, 06:14:41 PM
It's the lack of draws that have hurt us. We've actually only won one less than Wolves and Sheff Utd, but they turn defeats in to draws and we turn draws in to defeats.

As I mentioned elsewhere, it's the defence that has really letting us down. Wolves have only scored 3 more goals than us, Sheff Utd have scored 4 less than us but we've conceded more than double than them. Only Norwich have conceded more - two more.

We're the ninth highest scorers in the league with the second worst defence.

In part it goes to personnel. We have the worst grouping of full backs in the division. We have made horrible mistakes at the back across all of our CB’s. And then we don’t play as a group, so often there are massive gaps between our midfield and forwards. I would have thought the priority would have been just as you described Sheff Utd. They have a lot of league one and Championship players who have been coached really well and are not punching well above their weight in the PL. They have incredible discipline and a well thought out structure. We don’t and it shows week after week.

Sheffield United have had the distinct advantage that six of the first team are now into at least the third season at the club. And they have only really had to add one/two players into their first team for this season.
Wilder is an exceptional coach who has them playing their system really well but it definitely helps that most of them have been doing it for a while.

Edit - Sorry, just noticed that Drummond made the point a lot quicker and more succinctly than I did.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on January 13, 2020, 08:59:17 PM
Quote from: Damo70 on January 13, 2020, 04:44:00 PM
Quote from: ASHTONVILLA on January 13, 2020, 03:46:37 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on January 13, 2020, 02:21:07 PM
But Brian you were at the front of the charge saying a Bruce type manager was the last thing we needed in the PL and the days for that type of dinosaur football is long gone.  Are you prepared to throw all that principle away to get into bed with the Devil (an Alardyce / Moyes or the like)?

Allardyce is a far better manager than Bruce will ever be, and does not deserve to be labelled a dinosaur. I think he would keep us up and then establish us midtable next season.



I have already said that Allardyce would keep us up this season and take us forward next season. He did it with Blackburn, Sunderland, Palace and Everton. I don't understand why so many people look down their nose at him given his track record. He is far from a dinosaur and was ahead of his time regarding sports science after his spell in the USA. Stuff the long term and concentrate on the next four months for now. Reevaluate and regroup in the summer.

It's pretty simple, it's because he's a wanker. That he got his dream job and fucked it up by taking dodgy money says everything you need to know about him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on January 13, 2020, 11:52:54 PM
Quote from: ASHTONVILLA on January 13, 2020, 03:46:37 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on January 13, 2020, 02:21:07 PM
But Brian you were at the front of the charge saying a Bruce type manager was the last thing we needed in the PL and the days for that type of dinosaur football is long gone.  Are you prepared to throw all that principle away to get into bed with the Devil (an Alardyce / Moyes or the like)?

Allardyce is a far better manager than Bruce will ever be, and does not deserve to be labelled a dinosaur. I think he would keep us up and then establish us midtable next season.

With our current playing squad Allardyce or Guardiola wouldn't keep us up. Our midfield has been torn apart since week one despite every possible combination being tried. No we have no forward to even attempt and go direct with either.

A more experienced manager wouldn't have tolerated our two farcical signings in the last week possibly but we are going down without another three or four in capable of starting the majority of our remaining games. Starting with Saturday. Irrespective if Smith stays or goes that has to be the priority.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 14, 2020, 06:01:55 AM
Smith is not going anywhere.
The time to sack him was after the Watford defeat and following Southampton.
That might have given a new manager with different contacts to do something to have an impact.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: wince on January 14, 2020, 06:45:25 AM
Disappointed with the results but can we, as a club, continue the 18 month cycle of changing managers? It seems we consistently get the wrong manager or we break them down. Something must be bubbling away under the surface as new players, new managers and even new owners are not having an impact. I’ve said before but who is training our players? This is the only consistent thing I can think of. Dean needs to be less stubborn and get a plan b because we are not drawing games. That is the key and what saved Lamberts dire brand of football. If we can’t win just don’t bloody lose!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: andyh on January 14, 2020, 06:52:33 AM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on January 13, 2020, 06:44:47 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on January 13, 2020, 06:37:11 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on January 13, 2020, 06:23:29 PM
Quote from: Mellin on January 13, 2020, 06:14:41 PM
It's the lack of draws that have hurt us. We've actually only won one less than Wolves and Sheff Utd, but they turn defeats in to draws and we turn draws in to defeats.

As I mentioned elsewhere, it's the defence that has really letting us down. Wolves have only scored 3 more goals than us, Sheff Utd have scored 4 less than us but we've conceded more than double than them. Only Norwich have conceded more - two more.

We're the ninth highest scorers in the league with the second worst defence.

In part it goes to personnel. We have the worst grouping of full backs in the division. We have made horrible mistakes at the back across all of our CB’s. And then we don’t play as a group, so often there are massive gaps between our midfield and forwards. I would have thought the priority would have been just as you described Sheff Utd. They have a lot of league one and Championship players who have been coached really well and are not punching well above their weight in the PL. They have incredible discipline and a well thought out structure. We don’t and it shows week after week.

Indeed. Rule Number One for survival in your first season in the PL is be hard to beat. Build from a solid defence.

Dean's Rule Number One is to play open attacking football and hope to score more goals than the opposition.
Do we play open, attacking football? Really?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 14, 2020, 07:13:06 AM
Quote from: andyh on January 14, 2020, 06:52:33 AM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on January 13, 2020, 06:44:47 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on January 13, 2020, 06:37:11 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on January 13, 2020, 06:23:29 PM
Quote from: Mellin on January 13, 2020, 06:14:41 PM
It's the lack of draws that have hurt us. We've actually only won one less than Wolves and Sheff Utd, but they turn defeats in to draws and we turn draws in to defeats.

As I mentioned elsewhere, it's the defence that has really letting us down. Wolves have only scored 3 more goals than us, Sheff Utd have scored 4 less than us but we've conceded more than double than them. Only Norwich have conceded more - two more.

We're the ninth highest scorers in the league with the second worst defence.

In part it goes to personnel. We have the worst grouping of full backs in the division. We have made horrible mistakes at the back across all of our CB’s. And then we don’t play as a group, so often there are massive gaps between our midfield and forwards. I would have thought the priority would have been just as you described Sheff Utd. They have a lot of league one and Championship players who have been coached really well and are not punching well above their weight in the PL. They have incredible discipline and a well thought out structure. We don’t and it shows week after week.

Indeed. Rule Number One for survival in your first season in the PL is be hard to beat. Build from a solid defence.

Dean's Rule Number One is to play open attacking football and hope to score more goals than the opposition.
Do we play open, attacking football? Really?
I think open is correct.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Luke8 on January 14, 2020, 08:35:15 AM
Quote from: andyh on January 14, 2020, 06:52:33 AM
Do we play open, attacking football? Really?

Scored the ninth most goals in the league. Same position for number of shots and shots on target. I think we are eighth in terms of open play goals as well. That suggests that we are a fairly attacking team I would say.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on January 14, 2020, 08:40:56 AM
Quote from: brontebilly on January 13, 2020, 11:52:54 PM
A more experienced manager wouldn't have tolerated our two farcical signings in the last week possibly but we are going down without another three or four in capable of starting the majority of our remaining games. Starting with Saturday. Irrespective if Smith stays or goes that has to be the priority.

Sorry but that's rubbish. The players that have come so far were available and we got them in. The window has another 2 weeks to go and clubs don't just sell their players because we want them to.

Reina is an experienced pro and there's nothing wrong with him on a loan til the end of the season.

Drinkwater needs to get up to speed, of that there's no doubt, but he was part of a whole team that failed on Sunday.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on January 14, 2020, 09:05:28 AM
Really? on that basis we'd bring Grant Holt back simply because he's available. Both players signed thus far are not what we need and are simply consuming scare resources.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Luke8 on January 14, 2020, 09:24:26 AM
Quote from: mr underhill on January 14, 2020, 09:05:28 AM
Really? on that basis we'd bring Grant Holt back simply because he's available. Both players signed thus far are not what we need and are simply consuming scare resources.

Drummond wasn’t saying we are signing players just because they are available, just that we managed to get two deals done relatively quickly. It’s a difficult market in January, it’s not like other clubs are making incredible signings whilst we are doing nothing.

And you may not like them as signings, but we definitely needed a midfield and a goalkeeper to cover for the injuries that we have recently picked up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on January 14, 2020, 09:26:10 AM
Quote from: mr underhill on January 14, 2020, 09:05:28 AM
Really? on that basis we'd bring Grant Holt back simply because he's available. Both players signed thus far are not what we need and are simply consuming scare resources.

Yes it's frightening.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on January 14, 2020, 11:25:16 AM
Quote from: Drummond on January 14, 2020, 08:40:56 AM
Quote from: brontebilly on January 13, 2020, 11:52:54 PM
A more experienced manager wouldn't have tolerated our two farcical signings in the last week possibly but we are going down without another three or four in capable of starting the majority of our remaining games. Starting with Saturday. Irrespective if Smith stays or goes that has to be the priority.

Sorry but that's rubbish. The players that have come so far were available and we got them in. The window has another 2 weeks to go and clubs don't just sell their players because we want them to.

Reina is an experienced pro and there's nothing wrong with him on a loan til the end of the season.

Drinkwater needs to get up to speed, of that there's no doubt, but he was part of a whole team that failed on Sunday.

Jordan Bowery and Tonev might be available, should we get them in? Maybe Ian Taylor might come down from the stand and tog out?

Drinkwater and Reina have made a combined seven league appearances in the last two seasons. Expecting them to be up to speed for an immediate relegation fight is fantasy stuff.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on January 14, 2020, 11:28:48 AM
Quote from: brontebilly on January 14, 2020, 11:25:16 AM
Quote from: Drummond on January 14, 2020, 08:40:56 AM
Quote from: brontebilly on January 13, 2020, 11:52:54 PM
A more experienced manager wouldn't have tolerated our two farcical signings in the last week possibly but we are going down without another three or four in capable of starting the majority of our remaining games. Starting with Saturday. Irrespective if Smith stays or goes that has to be the priority.

Sorry but that's rubbish. The players that have come so far were available and we got them in. The window has another 2 weeks to go and clubs don't just sell their players because we want them to.

Reina is an experienced pro and there's nothing wrong with him on a loan til the end of the season.

Drinkwater needs to get up to speed, of that there's no doubt, but he was part of a whole team that failed on Sunday.

Jordan Bowery and Tonev might be available, should we get them in? Maybe Ian Taylor might come down from the stand and tog out?

Drinkwater and Reina have made a combined seven league appearances in the last two seasons. Expecting them to be up to speed for an immediate relegation fight is fantasy stuff.

I've just said DD needs to get up to speed. Not sure who was expecting anything different because I've not seen anyone say that.

Reina will be fine. Keepers don't need the same levels of fitness, unless we're chasing the game again and he has to keep bombing up the pitch.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on January 14, 2020, 11:46:14 AM
Poor fitness levels and conditioning appear to have been a common trait throughout the squad this season … throw in a player who has not played competitive football  consistently for quite some time (in a poor Burnley side) against a well drilled, professional and fit side like Man City and you have a recipe for disaster - it is clear for anyone to see (bar Smith) that Drinkwater is hardly a model pro - if he was he would have maintained some semblance of fitness levels - don't try and kid me that he just lacks "match fitness/sharpness"
We need players that can hit the ground running - we are in deep shit and require players who will work their socks off
I`m beginning to think Smith is a bit of a "Chancer"   Brentford seem to be doing quite well without him
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on January 14, 2020, 12:00:24 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on January 14, 2020, 11:46:14 AM
Poor fitness levels and conditioning appear to have been a common trait throughout the squad this season … throw in a player who has not played competitive football  consistently for quite some time (in a poor Burnley side) against a well drilled, professional and fit side like Man City and you have a recipe for disaster - it is clear for anyone to see (bar Smith) that Drinkwater is hardly a model pro - if he was he would have maintained some semblance of fitness levels - don't try and kid me that he just lacks "match fitness/sharpness"
We need players that can hit the ground running - we are in deep shit and require players who will work their socks off
I`m beginning to think Smith is a bit of a "Chancer"   Brentford seem to be doing quite well without him
Oh for fucks sake you'll be calling him a coward next.

He may or may not be the long term answer, but he's working with an incredibly thin squad further weakened by injuries.  In our last 3 games we've won one, drawn one and lost one.  Two of these were against two of the best three teams in the league where we were playing with no striker.

As for Drinkwater, good to hear you feel you have a better understanding of fitness than our medical team.  For me, I'll take their opinion that he mainly lacks match fitness which will probably take a few weeks to sort.  Whether once fit he's the anser is a diffferent question.

In my view Smith has been left high and dry by the recruitment team, firstly in the summer by being landed with Wesley as the only viable striker and such inexperienced midfield aquisitions and currently with their failure to sort out some cover in this window.

Despite all that (and some refereeing travesties) he has us 1 point from safety and 1 game from Wembley.

I understand you've lost faith but for Gods sake get a fucking grip before chucking phrases like 'chancer' around.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SheffieldVillain on January 14, 2020, 12:00:57 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on January 14, 2020, 11:46:14 AM
Poor fitness levels and conditioning appear to have been a common trait throughout the squad this season … throw in a player who has not played competitive football  consistently for quite some time (in a poor Burnley side) against a well drilled, professional and fit side like Man City and you have a recipe for disaster - it is clear for anyone to see (bar Smith) that Drinkwater is hardly a model pro - if he was he would have maintained some semblance of fitness levels - don't try and kid me that he just lacks "match fitness/sharpness"
We need players that can hit the ground running - we are in deep shit and require players who will work their socks off
I`m beginning to think Smith is a bit of a "Chancer"   Brentford seem to be doing quite well without him

This 'chancer' thing keeps coming up. What exactly do you mean? The dictionary definition is "an unscrupulous or dishonest opportunist who is prepared to try any dubious scheme for making money or furthering his or her own ends" or "a person who takes many risks."

How does that apply to Smith? He did a good job at his two previous clubs, achieved what was asked of him last season, and this season still has a chance of staying up while getting to a minimum of a cup semi-final. How does that make him a 'chancer'?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on January 14, 2020, 12:51:10 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on January 14, 2020, 12:00:24 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on January 14, 2020, 11:46:14 AM
Poor fitness levels and conditioning appear to have been a common trait throughout the squad this season … throw in a player who has not played competitive football  consistently for quite some time (in a poor Burnley side) against a well drilled, professional and fit side like Man City and you have a recipe for disaster - it is clear for anyone to see (bar Smith) that Drinkwater is hardly a model pro - if he was he would have maintained some semblance of fitness levels - don't try and kid me that he just lacks "match fitness/sharpness"
We need players that can hit the ground running - we are in deep shit and require players who will work their socks off
I`m beginning to think Smith is a bit of a "Chancer"   Brentford seem to be doing quite well without him
Oh for fucks sake you'll be calling him a coward next.

He may or may not be the long term answer, but he's working with an incredibly thin squad further weakened by injuries.  In our last 3 games we've won one, drawn one and lost one.  Two of these were against two of the best three teams in the league where we were playing with no striker.

As for Drinkwater, good to hear you feel you have a better understanding of fitness than our medical team.  For me, I'll take their opinion that he mainly lacks match fitness which will probably take a few weeks to sort.  Whether once fit he's the anser is a diffferent question.

In my view Smith has been left high and dry by the recruitment team, firstly in the summer by being landed with Wesley as the only viable striker and such inexperienced midfield aquisitions and currently with their failure to sort out some cover in this window.

Despite all that (and some refereeing travesties) he has us 1 point from safety and 1 game from Wembley.

I understand you've lost faith but for Gods sake get a fucking grip before chucking phrases like 'chancer' around.

First and foremost I've not labelled him a coward so you can cut that out Chris
I dont "expect" us to be winning against the top established sides
Loaning and then playing a player who is weeks away from match fitness is ridiculous - he supposed to be a professional athlete - no wonder Chelsea/Burnley were happy to let him go elsewhere - if we are paying his full wage then that is the economics of the mad house
As for the fitness of the squad per se - from week one we have been outrun by many teams - witness the late goals conceded - who is responsible for ensuring the squad is fit enough to compete?
On one point we agree - recruitment, however isn't he part of the "Committee" that sanctions/agrees deals?
Its not that I have lost faith in Smith - I have never thought him up to the job of keeping us in the Premier league  - I sincerely hope I have to admit I was wrong come May
We`ve had our fair share of managers who have "talked the talk, but not walked the walk" I was hoping Smith wouldn't come into that category
As for "getting a fucking grip" ….. Thank you,  I shall consider your advice but maybe a trip to the opticians is in order for you  to replace those rose tinted specs : )
Its only a game eh?
UTV
Cheers VCTM   
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on January 14, 2020, 01:25:20 PM
Calling Smith a chancer is ridiculous.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on January 14, 2020, 01:45:06 PM
Quote from: Clampy on January 14, 2020, 01:25:20 PM
Calling Smith a chancer is ridiculous.

Chancer - "A person unable and/or unqualified to carry out a specific task"   am I really a million miles away?




Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on January 14, 2020, 01:51:00 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on January 14, 2020, 01:45:06 PM
Quote from: Clampy on January 14, 2020, 01:25:20 PM
Calling Smith a chancer is ridiculous.

Chancer - "A person unable and/or unqualified to carry out a specific task"   am I really a million miles away?






He got us promoted which was a specific task last season. As for unqualified, he's a football manager so I'd say he is qualified.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on January 14, 2020, 02:03:50 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on January 14, 2020, 01:45:06 PM
Quote from: Clampy on January 14, 2020, 01:25:20 PM
Calling Smith a chancer is ridiculous.

Chancer - "A person unable and/or unqualified to carry out a specific task"   am I really a million miles away?






You're using the Urban Dictionary to define the meaning of words now? I can suddenly see why you struggled with 'belligerent' last night.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on January 14, 2020, 02:09:41 PM
Quote from: Clampy on January 14, 2020, 01:51:00 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on January 14, 2020, 01:45:06 PM
Quote from: Clampy on January 14, 2020, 01:25:20 PM
Calling Smith a chancer is ridiculous.

Chancer - "A person unable and/or unqualified to carry out a specific task"   am I really a million miles away?






He got us promoted which was a specific task last season. As for unqualified, he's a football manager so I'd say he is qualified.

Specific task this season - keep us up? We shall see
Qualified ? - He has previously managed Walsall and Brentford ….. qualified to manage at a higher level ? We shall see again   
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on January 14, 2020, 02:23:30 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on January 14, 2020, 02:09:41 PM
Quote from: Clampy on January 14, 2020, 01:51:00 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on January 14, 2020, 01:45:06 PM
Quote from: Clampy on January 14, 2020, 01:25:20 PM
Calling Smith a chancer is ridiculous.

Chancer - "A person unable and/or unqualified to carry out a specific task"   am I really a million miles away?






He got us promoted which was a specific task last season. As for unqualified, he's a football manager so I'd say he is qualified.

Specific task this season - keep us up? We shall see
Qualified ? - He has previously managed Walsall and Brentford ….. qualified to manage at a higher level ? We shall see again   

Still does not make him a chancer. A post riddled with desperation if ever there was one.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on January 14, 2020, 02:28:12 PM
The use of the word "chancer" and then attempts to justify it sound like someone digging an even bigger hole for themselves.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TheMalandro on January 14, 2020, 02:33:16 PM
Quote from: Clampy on January 14, 2020, 02:23:30 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on January 14, 2020, 02:09:41 PM
Quote from: Clampy on January 14, 2020, 01:51:00 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on January 14, 2020, 01:45:06 PM
Quote from: Clampy on January 14, 2020, 01:25:20 PM
Calling Smith a chancer is ridiculous.

Chancer - "A person unable and/or unqualified to carry out a specific task"   am I really a million miles away?






He got us promoted which was a specific task last season. As for unqualified, he's a football manager so I'd say he is qualified.

Specific task this season - keep us up? We shall see
Qualified ? - He has previously managed Walsall and Brentford ….. qualified to manage at a higher level ? We shall see again   

Still does not make him a chancer. A post riddled with desperation if ever there was one.

Still on the wind up.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on January 14, 2020, 02:35:15 PM
I think comment on poor fitness levels is a red herring as well, I don't think our players are any less fit than most teams in the league. All players need a breather at times, that's just basic biology, it's about controlling the game to give yourself a chance to do that in the right areas. Right now we're failing on both aspects of that, we're not in control of the game because we are always in a panic with the ball and when we do try to slow things down we do it in our own 3rd and invite teams to press us, which causes the mistakes that we often concede from. Simply put you can spend so much time chasing shadows without looking tired and losing concentration. We need to learn how to release pressure and give ourselves 5minutes to recover. For all the things I dislike about Bruce getting his teams to kill the contest and slow things down was almost an art form to him, he'd get the team doing it for 80 minutes and hope for a goal in the other 10.

Addressing those flaws will make us look a lot less fucked without any change to the overall conditioning of the players.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on January 14, 2020, 02:35:54 PM
Quote from: TheMalandro on January 14, 2020, 02:33:16 PM
Quote from: Clampy on January 14, 2020, 02:23:30 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on January 14, 2020, 02:09:41 PM
Quote from: Clampy on January 14, 2020, 01:51:00 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on January 14, 2020, 01:45:06 PM
Quote from: Clampy on January 14, 2020, 01:25:20 PM
Calling Smith a chancer is ridiculous.

Chancer - "A person unable and/or unqualified to carry out a specific task"   am I really a million miles away?






He got us promoted which was a specific task last season. As for unqualified, he's a football manager so I'd say he is qualified.

Specific task this season - keep us up? We shall see
Qualified ? - He has previously managed Walsall and Brentford ….. qualified to manage at a higher level ? We shall see again   

Still does not make him a chancer. A post riddled with desperation if ever there was one.

Still on the wind up.



No, just asking someone to justify calling someone a chancer.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chris Smith on January 14, 2020, 03:32:56 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on January 14, 2020, 02:09:41 PM
Quote from: Clampy on January 14, 2020, 01:51:00 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on January 14, 2020, 01:45:06 PM
Quote from: Clampy on January 14, 2020, 01:25:20 PM
Calling Smith a chancer is ridiculous.

Chancer - "A person unable and/or unqualified to carry out a specific task"   am I really a million miles away?






He got us promoted which was a specific task last season. As for unqualified, he's a football manager so I'd say he is qualified.

Specific task this season - keep us up? We shall see
Qualified ? - He has previously managed Walsall and Brentford ….. qualified to manage at a higher level ? We shall see again   

You’re right, we we will see but a lot of you appear to have already made your mind up.

It’s clear to anyone paying attention that the board are going to stick with for the rest of the season at least so I’m not sure what those people arguing to get rid and discussing alternatives are hoping to achieve.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on January 14, 2020, 04:23:58 PM
Quote from: Chris Smith on January 14, 2020, 03:32:56 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on January 14, 2020, 02:09:41 PM
Quote from: Clampy on January 14, 2020, 01:51:00 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on January 14, 2020, 01:45:06 PM
Quote from: Clampy on January 14, 2020, 01:25:20 PM
Calling Smith a chancer is ridiculous.

Chancer - "A person unable and/or unqualified to carry out a specific task"   am I really a million miles away?






He got us promoted which was a specific task last season. As for unqualified, he's a football manager so I'd say he is qualified.

Specific task this season - keep us up? We shall see
Qualified ? - He has previously managed Walsall and Brentford ….. qualified to manage at a higher level ? We shall see again   

You’re right, we we will see but a lot of you appear to have already made your mind up.

It’s clear to anyone paying attention that the board are going to stick with for the rest of the season at least so I’m not sure what those people arguing to get rid and discussing alternatives are hoping to achieve.
Fair point Chris - I respect your opinion...… post Wembley we saw lots of good signs coming out of the club and the place was awash with optimism . We have placed our faith in new owners, who on the face of it have plenty of experience in sports management and business - they must see something in Smith to have supported him with an extended contract - quite what that is I am not sure . the next few months are massive for the club.
   
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 14, 2020, 06:16:27 PM
Quote from: Chris Smith on January 14, 2020, 03:32:56 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on January 14, 2020, 02:09:41 PM
Quote from: Clampy on January 14, 2020, 01:51:00 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on January 14, 2020, 01:45:06 PM
Quote from: Clampy on January 14, 2020, 01:25:20 PM
Calling Smith a chancer is ridiculous.

Chancer - "A person unable and/or unqualified to carry out a specific task"   am I really a million miles away?






He got us promoted which was a specific task last season. As for unqualified, he's a football manager so I'd say he is qualified.

Specific task this season - keep us up? We shall see
Qualified ? - He has previously managed Walsall and Brentford ….. qualified to manage at a higher level ? We shall see again   

You’re right, we we will see but a lot of you appear to have already made your mind up.

It’s clear to anyone paying attention that the board are going to stick with for the rest of the season at least so I’m not sure what those people arguing to get rid and discussing alternatives are hoping to achieve.
I agree, they have made their bed and now have to lie in it.
If they stuck after Saints then Watford then he ain’t going anywhere.
The issue now is do they get him the tools to have a fighting chance.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on January 14, 2020, 06:25:04 PM
Smith is clearly a competent manager; the question is at what level.  Smith had proved himself in the league below so he earned a crack.  A proper chancer, like Sherwood, had no significant history in management and plainly didn't know what he was doing.

Smith may have discovered his limit this season but he certainly isn't a chancer.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: West Derby Villan on January 14, 2020, 07:01:12 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on January 14, 2020, 11:46:14 AM
Poor fitness levels and conditioning appear to have been a common trait throughout the squad this season … throw in a player who has not played competitive football  consistently for quite some time (in a poor Burnley side) against a well drilled, professional and fit side like Man City and you have a recipe for disaster - it is clear for anyone to see (bar Smith) that Drinkwater is hardly a model pro - if he was he would have maintained some semblance of fitness levels - don't try and kid me that he just lacks "match fitness/sharpness"
We need players that can hit the ground running - we are in deep shit and require players who will work their socks off
I`m beginning to think Smith is a bit of a "Chancer"   Brentford seem to be doing quite well without him

Sorry but Smith is certainly not a chancer
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 14, 2020, 07:10:49 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on January 14, 2020, 06:25:04 PM
Smith is clearly a competent manager; the question is at what level.  Smith had proved himself in the league below so he earned a crack.  A proper chancer, like Sherwood, had no significant history in management and plainly didn't know what he was doing.

Smith may have discovered his limit this season but he certainly isn't a chancer.

Agree.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on January 14, 2020, 07:15:03 PM
He’s not a chancer but nor is he good enough for the Premier League. After us, I can’t imagine him managing in the top flight again.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TonyD on January 14, 2020, 08:01:01 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on January 14, 2020, 06:25:04 PM
Smith is clearly a competent manager; the question is at what level.  Smith had proved himself in the league below so he earned a crack.  A proper chancer, like Sherwood, had no significant history in management and plainly didn't know what he was doing.

Smith may have discovered his limit this season but he certainly isn't a chancer.
The “what level” doesn’t wash with me.  Whether you manage a pub team or a championship team or a PL team  - there are basics that you need to to.  Smith has mostly failed to do the basics this season  - otherwise we wouldn’t be in this mess. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on January 14, 2020, 08:04:58 PM
Quote from: TonyD on January 14, 2020, 08:01:01 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on January 14, 2020, 06:25:04 PM
Smith is clearly a competent manager; the question is at what level.  Smith had proved himself in the league below so he earned a crack.  A proper chancer, like Sherwood, had no significant history in management and plainly didn't know what he was doing.

Smith may have discovered his limit this season but he certainly isn't a chancer.
The “what level” doesn’t wash with me.  Whether you manage a pub team or a championship team or a PL team  - there are basics that you need to to.  Smith has mostly failed to do the basics this season  - otherwise we wouldn’t be in this mess. 

If the concept of differing levels of competition doesn't wash with you I dread to think of the state of your flannel.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: old man villa fan on January 14, 2020, 11:38:36 PM
Quote from: TonyD on January 14, 2020, 08:01:01 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on January 14, 2020, 06:25:04 PM
Smith is clearly a competent manager; the question is at what level.  Smith had proved himself in the league below so he earned a crack.  A proper chancer, like Sherwood, had no significant history in management and plainly didn't know what he was doing.

Smith may have discovered his limit this season but he certainly isn't a chancer.
The “what level” doesn’t wash with me.  Whether you manage a pub team or a championship team or a PL team  - there are basics that you need to to.  Smith has mostly failed to do the basics this season  - otherwise we wouldn’t be in this mess. 

Top managers have failed with good players but it doesn't make them bad managers or not able to manage at the top level. For a manager to move up like Smith has done over the last 15 months with a constantly changing team and hold it together consistently would take some doing. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villabear on January 18, 2020, 06:45:25 AM
Guardian piece about Dean which doesn’t really tell us much but uses the word catastrophise.



Dean Smith aiming to end Aston Villa’s tendency to ‘catastrophise’
Aston Villa manager hopes experienced signings Danny Drinkwater and Pepe Reina can stiffen struggling team
Paul Doyle

Psychologists say one common symptom of anxiety is a tendency to catastrophise, meaning to expect the worst outcome in every situation. Dean Smith used the same word this week, not for the first time, when discussing the ailments Aston Villa must remedy if they are to clamber out of the Premier League’s relegation zone. Villa’s next three matches, starting with Brighton on Saturday, are against teams also fighting to avoid the drop. Smith’s men cannot afford to approach those games with a sense of impending doom.
Villa have played very well at times. But too often fear has appeared to render them timid and sloppy. “We can catastrophise goals too quickly,” said Smith in December, after the home defeat by Southampton. Last weekend they started promisingly against Manchester City but unravelled so badly after Riyad Mahrez scored in the 18th minute that they were 4-0 down by half-time, on course for a 6-1 defeat. Smith says his team must learn to remain confident no matter what.

“When you concede a goal, you don’t catastrophise it. [Against City] we backed off and did not engage [after falling behind] … That’s just not good enough, it was naivety on our part and we’ve spoken about that at length.”

Opta statistics show that Villa have made more mistakes leading to chances for opponents than any other team in the league this season. Sometimes to dread the worst has been to invite it.
“The players need to stamp it out,” says Smith. “If they’re making individual mistakes, there’s not a lot we can do on the coaching field about it. That comes from confidence sometimes.”
Smith has done more than just talk about the problem. He has taken several steps to try to make his team stronger. For a start, he changed formation, and the switch to a back three yielded encouraging performances and results at Burnley and in the first leg of the Carabao Cup semi-final against Leicester. Then came the relapse against Manchester City.

Merely adjusting the shape would not be enough to make Villa solid and sharp, especially amid an injury crisis. Villa, who awarded Smith a new four-year contract in November, know they must make optimal use of the transfer window if they are to escape trouble.

Their January dealings so far certainly could not be diagnosed as further evidence of catastrophism. On the contrary, the loan hires of Danny Drinkwater and Pepe Reina demonstrate hyper-optimism.
Smith believes those players will inspire with their quality and experience despite their lack of recent playing time. He says criticism of Drinkwater’s debut last weekend was “very harsh” and the midfielder will bring much-needed “bravery and guile”. Smith also expects a big influence from Reina, the former Liverpool goalkeeper who could go straight into the side after joining on loan from Milan, for whom he appeared only once this season.
“He’s got an air about him,” says Smith of Reina. “He knows what he’s about and what he stands for. He certainly won’t accept falls [in performance], that’s for sure. He’s probably what we need in the dressing room at the moment. Our recruitment in the summer was players with potential and [Drinkwater and Reina] can help them fulfil potential by helping them with their experience.”

But Villa minds will not be truly at ease until they can deploy at least one potent striker. Wesley has hardly been a runaway success since arriving in the summer but he has been missed since a season-ending injury earlier this month. Part of Villa’s players’ worries can be attributed, you suspect, to their knowledge that conceding first could be ruinous because they find it so difficult to score.

Similarly, their apparent reluctance to send the ball forward against City – which went against Smith’s declared gameplan and resulted in them regularly being caught overplaying at the back – was likely down to their awareness that they had no one who could hold the ball up front. Anwar El Ghazi has done a fair job filling in but is palpably not a solution.

All of which is why Villa want two new strikers this month, one of whom should have Premier League experience. The other is likely to be the Tanzania international Mbwana Samatta, whom Villa are close to prising from Genk. They will need their business to pay off almost immediately. But at Brighton, pending the availability of new forwards, they will have to cope without a specialist striker, and make sure they do not get spooked if their opponents score first.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 18, 2020, 07:11:48 AM
Catastrophise , some of the defeats have been traumatic and I am not surprised they have had a phsycological impact.
The problem is that he has played his part in many of them through pisss poor game management.
Now he is trying To deal with the consequences.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 18, 2020, 07:13:37 AM
double post
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on January 18, 2020, 07:37:49 AM
Deano knows Brummies. Or he's been on here and seen the C1 to L5 liquifying.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 18, 2020, 11:03:57 AM
I’m glad he’s aware of this problem. We also need to be better if we get in front. We have a tendency to drop-off and invite pressure too much.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on January 22, 2020, 09:12:08 AM
Nice to have a manager creating good records for once. Some of those stats are appalling.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AGRIPPA on January 22, 2020, 09:39:17 AM
Regardless of what he has or hasn’t done right ( or wrong) the bloke is Villa through and through and he will be feeling this.
We as spectators I believe, have no idea how that can feel.
He must be going through purgatory thinking this could be his fault.... can you imagine that..... I would hate it
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Jon Crofts on January 23, 2020, 08:49:15 AM
We are 6th in the form table based on the past 6 games which include the Man City debacle. 4 of those games were without a striker. Maybe, just maybe the corner has been turned and the system Smith wants to play is finally understood. Also in decline is the shots faced numbers. All positive signs atr the moment.

Here's to a scoring debut for Samatta Tuesday night.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on January 23, 2020, 10:59:48 AM
Beat Bournemouth and I think we can all take a deep breath and relax a little bit.  Not too much, obviously, but that would be huge.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mellin on January 23, 2020, 11:53:38 AM
Quote from: Jon Crofts on January 23, 2020, 08:49:15 AM
We are 6th in the form table based on the past 6 games which include the Man City debacle. 4 of those games were without a striker. Maybe, just maybe the corner has been turned and the system Smith wants to play is finally understood. Also in decline is the shots faced numbers. All positive signs atr the moment.

Here's to a scoring debut for Samatta Tuesday night.

Watford are fourth despite that loss and would've been second with a win. Puts how big a result it was in to context.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on January 23, 2020, 11:58:59 AM
Quote from: Mellin on January 23, 2020, 11:53:38 AM
Quote from: Jon Crofts on January 23, 2020, 08:49:15 AM
We are 6th in the form table based on the past 6 games which include the Man City debacle. 4 of those games were without a striker. Maybe, just maybe the corner has been turned and the system Smith wants to play is finally understood. Also in decline is the shots faced numbers. All positive signs atr the moment.

Here's to a scoring debut for Samatta Tuesday night.

Watford are fourth despite that loss and would've been second with a win. Puts how big a result it was in to context.

Indeed, a little run would be rather nice!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Jon Crofts on January 23, 2020, 03:08:38 PM
Quote from: Risso on January 23, 2020, 10:59:48 AM
Beat Bournemouth and I think we can all take a deep breath and relax a little bit.  Not too much, obviously, but that would be huge.

Come on, that's not the Villa way is it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Smirker on January 28, 2020, 10:20:58 PM
Thank fuck for this.

Delighted for Dean. SMITH IN.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: WarszaVillan on January 28, 2020, 10:25:16 PM
Quote from: Smirker on January 28, 2020, 10:20:58 PM
Thank fuck for this.

Delighted for Dean. SMITH IN.

Absolutely. Him and Jack leading Villa at Wembley is a wonderful thing
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Bad English on January 28, 2020, 10:29:18 PM
BACK TO THE DARK AGES! (https://i.ibb.co/SVWLGDF/Screenshot-20200128-224117-com-android-chrome.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/tcjBkx0/Screenshot-20200128-224046-com-android-chrome.jpg)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 28, 2020, 10:32:07 PM
If he gets a win on Saturday it will be some turnaround by him and the team and a brilliant week. The cup final is great but we need to carry this into a massive league game now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: danno on January 28, 2020, 10:32:49 PM
Good subs big man!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Bad English on January 28, 2020, 10:33:20 PM
Sorry wrong thread ⬆️
But fuck it, I'll leave it there'
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Scovilla on January 28, 2020, 10:34:19 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on January 28, 2020, 10:32:07 PM
If he gets a win on Saturday it will be some turnaround by him and the team and a brilliant week. The cup final is great but we need to carry this into a massive league game now.

That's sums it all up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: JJ-AV on January 28, 2020, 10:48:42 PM
Third game in a row where his subs have changed the game. 16 months from midtable Championship to a chance of staying up in the top flight and a cup final.

There's been worse 12 months.

Credit to Dean.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The_ads on January 28, 2020, 10:55:20 PM
Really weird how a bit of time, patience and keeping the fucking faith pays dividends eh.  Promotion and a cup final in 15 months but some called for Big Sam



Up the fucking Villa
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on January 28, 2020, 10:57:03 PM
Just enjoy the win eh?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on January 28, 2020, 11:58:49 PM
I think this (alongside last week) was the springboard to safety for us. We showed at the end of last season that we're so much better at stepping up to pressure to maintain a good run than we are at halting a pattern of bad form.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nev on January 29, 2020, 06:43:14 AM
We saw it last season, and Smith admitted it himself, his teams come good in the second half of the season. Let's hope it continues.
He talks a lot about emotional control and I believe it is this that has lead to our recent late winners. No panic, level headed, keep going.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: manic-road on January 29, 2020, 06:56:06 AM
Well done Dean, leading Villa to two Wembley appearances in less than a year. Also I believe he is the first English manager since Harry Redknapp to get a team to a Wembley final.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on January 29, 2020, 06:56:22 AM
Quote from: themossman on January 28, 2020, 10:57:03 PM
Just enjoy the win eh?

He's right though. Smith deserved a bit of criticism but sometimes you do need to keep a bit of faith and have some patience. We're not safe from relegation by any means but that last night will have given us such a big boost going into league games now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on January 29, 2020, 07:13:13 AM
Fair play to Dean, he got it right last night. Tactics and subs were spot on.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dave P on January 29, 2020, 07:21:19 AM
Quote from: manic-road on January 29, 2020, 06:56:06 AM
Well done Dean, leading Villa to two Wembley appearances in less than a year. Also I believe he is the first English manager since Harry Redknapp to get a team to a Wembley final.

To get a *Premier League* team to League Cup Final.  The Bradford manager was English but we can forget about that!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: manic-road on January 29, 2020, 08:26:16 AM
Quote from: Dave P on January 29, 2020, 07:21:19 AM
Quote from: manic-road on January 29, 2020, 06:56:06 AM
Well done Dean, leading Villa to two Wembley appearances in less than a year. Also I believe he is the first English manager since Harry Redknapp to get a team to a Wembley final.

To get a *Premier League* team to League Cup Final.  The Bradford manager was English but we can forget about that!

Cheers for the correction Dave P.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dcdavecollett on January 30, 2020, 10:39:32 PM
It's safe to say that the 'Smith is the new Lambert' line can now be dismissed -at least as far as League Cup semi-finals are concerned!!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on January 31, 2020, 10:24:35 AM
Quote from: dcdavecollett on January 30, 2020, 10:39:32 PM
It's safe to say that the 'Smith is the new Lambert' line can now be dismissed -at least as far as League Cup semi-finals are concerned!!

Yep, in getting to a cup final, Smith is clearly the new Sherwood! ;)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TheMalandro on February 01, 2020, 12:06:43 AM
I feel very uneasy about the relationship between Smith, Suso and Purslow. Perhaps it’s paranoia from the last few regimes.

My gut feeling, Smith will be gone within a year. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Luke8 on February 01, 2020, 12:27:29 AM
Quote from: TheMalandro on February 01, 2020, 12:06:43 AM
I feel very uneasy about the relationship between Smith, Suso and Purslow. Perhaps it’s paranoia from the last few regimes.

My gut feeling, Smith will be gone within a year. 

Smith and Purslow looked pretty close on Tuesday night. And at Burnley.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: nigel on February 01, 2020, 11:03:43 AM
Quote from: TheMalandro on February 01, 2020, 12:06:43 AM
I feel very uneasy about the relationship between Smith, Suso and Purslow. Perhaps it’s paranoia from the last few regimes.

My gut feeling, Smith will be gone within a year.

What makes you say that?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 01, 2020, 05:00:36 PM
Today’s first half illustrates a problem for us. Far too often our level just drops through the floor, it’s not we’re a bit off our game we’re fucking miles off. Dean has to be better and stabilising this sort of thing. You can’t be ace all the time, but we shouldn’t drop like we do.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 01, 2020, 05:08:02 PM
We're shit a lot more time than we're ace.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Demitri_C on February 01, 2020, 05:09:02 PM
Isnt able to motivate a fucking team for 90 minutes. Another shambles performance and another game against ten men he has failed to get anything from.

Not good enough
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 01, 2020, 05:10:03 PM
Well yes fully agree. Today was unacceptable and it was another game from minute one then opposition looked to have more intent and accuracy. If we don’t massively step it up we’ll be relegated.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on February 01, 2020, 05:11:12 PM
Jack aside, we’re a team of hot and cold players with a hot and cold coach. Not a great combination for grinding out the wins we need. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on February 01, 2020, 05:13:43 PM
Dear Mr Appleyard,

Any chance you could coach the defenders at some stage this season please?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Demitri_C on February 01, 2020, 05:33:15 PM
One step forward  four back under smith
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on February 01, 2020, 05:38:36 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 01, 2020, 05:08:02 PM
We're shit a lot more time than we're ace.

You don’t even need to be ace to stay in this league. We just need to be shit a lot less often.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 01, 2020, 05:46:16 PM
Christ I’ve just looked at our remaining fixtures. We’re going to have either reverse our trend against the top 8 or our trend in away games if we’re going to survive.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 01, 2020, 05:47:46 PM
They're at home, which is where it will be won and lost. You play everybody twice, so save the top two back to back, meh, bring them on.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 01, 2020, 05:47:54 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on February 01, 2020, 05:38:36 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 01, 2020, 05:08:02 PM
We're shit a lot more time than we're ace.

You don’t even need to be ace to stay in this league. We just need to be shit a lot less often.
Yep do the basics as we have better players than a number of teams around us, but we set up to give the opposition plenty of chances.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Axl Rose on February 01, 2020, 06:00:31 PM
We need a better manager.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 01, 2020, 06:00:59 PM
I think he is doing ok.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: walsall villain on February 01, 2020, 06:01:57 PM
Quote from: TheMalandro on February 01, 2020, 12:06:43 AM
I feel very uneasy about the relationship between Smith, Suso and Purslow. Perhaps it’s paranoia from the last few regimes.

My gut feeling, Smith will be gone within a year. 
Well that would be into his third season, what’s the average stay? Less than that I imagine. So it would hardly be a shock in the modern game.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: walsall villain on February 01, 2020, 06:03:11 PM
I think he’s doing ok too. Play off winners always struggle so this was sort of what I expected.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 01, 2020, 06:06:17 PM
I was really worried we would be cannon fodder.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on February 01, 2020, 06:08:29 PM
Ok is not good enough in the Premiership. Too many you go head to head with are ok.  It makes it a lottery.  You have to be able to hold your own, home and away whatever the opposition.  That is what the top flight demands.  There is no room for Bruce's 'there or thereabouts'.  That is a recipe for thereabouts.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 01, 2020, 06:12:04 PM
If the season ended now it would be good enough for another season at it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 01, 2020, 06:14:04 PM
Yes but it doesn’t end now. If we put in more performances like today then it won’t be ok when all is said and done. Losing twice to Bournemouth is really poor whichever way you look at it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on February 01, 2020, 06:17:23 PM
I didn't see the game, I can never be arsed searching for virus-ridden, stop-start streams. But I'm struggling to see why you leave five defenders on the pitch when you are desperate for a goal and the opposition have had a bloke sent off. Can anyone who was actually watching it explain the logic to me?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on February 01, 2020, 06:19:55 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on February 01, 2020, 06:14:04 PM
Yes but it doesn’t end now. If we put in more performances like today then it won’t be ok when all is said and done. Losing twice to Bournemouth is really poor whichever way you look at it.
It's dissapointing today, a big loss.  But it's just as easy to say if we put in more performances like we did against Leicester we will be fine.

The reality is it's tight at the bottom and pretty much everyone can beat everyone.  I'm massively pissed off by todays result, but there's a long way to go.  And we've got McGinn.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on February 01, 2020, 06:23:40 PM
Need a Leicester type performance against Tottenham. I'm not writing off Deano again, not yet anyway. COYVB.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 01, 2020, 06:28:14 PM
Hard to see where the next win is coming from.  Newcastle away maybe.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan82 on February 01, 2020, 06:29:05 PM
Going down this time would be heartbreaking. Last time, in 2016, I detested the players.

This time, we have come so far together and we have good players with heart. All through this season I have felt we were not reaching our potential or getting the points we should have been. When you look at the points we have from games where we have played ten men or games where we managed to lose even though we played well, you can't help but have that feeling that we are going to fall short. That is heartbreaking.

I wish we could just show some more intelligence on the pitch and better 'know how'. Very, very frustrating.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 01, 2020, 06:30:44 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 01, 2020, 06:28:14 PM
Hard to see where the next win is coming from.  Newcastle away maybe.

2-0 at home to Tottenham.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Aldridge Villa on February 01, 2020, 06:31:21 PM
I concur
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on February 01, 2020, 06:45:22 PM
He's done well since December 28th. Two big wins in the league and also a good point at Brighton on the back of Man. City hammering. Also created a shock result in the league cup, now we need a couple of those in the league in the run in.

Things aren't as bleak as they were in the aftermath of Watford away apart from less games.

How we react will be crucial though. Let's hope we don't treat the two weeks as a jolly and we come out sluggish v Spurs.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 01, 2020, 06:56:08 PM
Quote from: Ads on February 01, 2020, 06:30:44 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 01, 2020, 06:28:14 PM
Hard to see where the next win is coming from.  Newcastle away maybe.

2-0 at home to Tottenham.

No chance.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Demitri_C on February 01, 2020, 06:58:42 PM
Quote from: walsall villain on February 01, 2020, 06:03:11 PM
I think he’s doing ok too. Play off winners always struggle so this was sort of what I expected.


Play off winners dont spend 150m and be consistently shit most of the season. They can at least do a bit better on the road.

In my view smiths under achieving badly and invested very poorly.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on February 01, 2020, 07:04:39 PM
Hard to disgrace with that. We’re not your average playoff winners and in the highly likely event that we go down we’re in a very small group of teams, comprising us and Fulham, who have outspent other promoted teams by shitloads and fucked it all up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Big Ming on February 01, 2020, 07:05:17 PM
Just want to feel proud of the team's performance more than once a month. Is that too much to ask?

And to round off a perfect day and another weekend spoiled, Hogan scores for the Noses......
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 01, 2020, 07:06:16 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 01, 2020, 06:56:08 PM
Quote from: Ads on February 01, 2020, 06:30:44 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 01, 2020, 06:28:14 PM
Hard to see where the next win is coming from.  Newcastle away maybe.

2-0 at home to Tottenham.

No chance.

3-0?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 01, 2020, 07:08:20 PM
To them, probably.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: David_Nab on February 01, 2020, 07:09:19 PM
Smith's team can't defend bottom line - where poor performances today individually no doubt but all season its been the same , had issues last year with it as did his Brentford team.

Tuesday he made good subs but today there where shocking , against 10 men leaving on 3 cbs was pointless and never allowed us to make the extra man tell in attack
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on February 01, 2020, 07:09:22 PM
How have we fucked it all up? It's not always as good as we'd like but not one poster on here would have turned down being in a cup final and outside the bottom 3 on the 1st Feb if offered it before the season started.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SheffieldVillain on February 01, 2020, 07:10:43 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 01, 2020, 06:58:42 PM
Quote from: walsall villain on February 01, 2020, 06:03:11 PM
I think he’s doing ok too. Play off winners always struggle so this was sort of what I expected.


Play off winners dont spend 150m and be consistently shit most of the season. They can at least do a bit better on the road.

They do spend £150m if they need to bring in 16 players. As for play-off winners not being consistently shit most of their first season up, the facts would suggest differently:
2013-4 - QPR promoted through playoffs, finished 20th - relegated
2014-5 - Norwich promoted through playoffs, finished 19th - relegated
2015-6 - Hull promoted through playoffs, finished 18th - relegated
2016-7 - Huddersfield promoted through playoffs, finished 16th & 4 points from relegation zone
2017-8 - Fulham promoted through playoffs, finished 19th - relegated
2018-9 - Us promoted through playoffs, currently 17th & 1 point from relegation zone

If you look at it as we were the lowest team at the start of the season - the statistically worst team to come up from the Championship, the goal is to move up from that to at minimum 17th. We are in the battle for that. Not saying that we've been great, or mistakes haven't been made or even that if we want to push on to midtable and then top 6 Smith is the man, but at the moment we are doing exactly what history suggests a team in our position is likely to do, in fact slightly better.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on February 01, 2020, 07:11:43 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 01, 2020, 06:28:14 PM
Hard to see where the next win is coming from.  Newcastle away maybe.

Maybe but Crystal Palace at home seems more likely.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on February 01, 2020, 07:16:05 PM
I think some of his game management has been poor too often but don't see much wrong with his subs today. Konsa needed to be subbed as he was "feeling something" according to DS, then after the red it was 2 attackers for the Nakamba, who was wank today, and AEG who was also ineffective.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 01, 2020, 07:19:59 PM
Nakamba had a shocker.  After a couple of games when he looked back to something like his earlier form, he was abysmal today.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on February 01, 2020, 07:24:59 PM
He's definitely not the man to take us to the next step should we stay up.
Too easy to score against, concede territory too easily, play at a poor intensity too often, allow the opposition too many shots. I think he's   below the required standard in both preperation and in game management.

It's nice that he's a boy done good, Villa fan and all that fuzzy shit but too many times we are very poor. We lose so many games and concede so many goals.

If we stay up and the owners mean business then they shouldn't really be keeping him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on February 01, 2020, 07:28:28 PM
Is it just me or are players these days much more prone to massive form swings?  Fancying it or not fancying it  on the day seems to be the new norm.  Nakamba was unrecognizable as the player last Tuesday night.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on February 01, 2020, 07:29:45 PM
The players are fannies and don't have it in them to grind things out. If the opposition get on top they disappear in to their shells too often.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on February 01, 2020, 07:32:54 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on February 01, 2020, 07:09:22 PM
How have we fucked it all up? It's not always as good as we'd like but not one poster on here would have turned down being in a cup final and outside the bottom 3 on the 1st Feb if offered it before the season started.

I would agree with that 100%
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on February 01, 2020, 07:35:28 PM
I would swap that all day long for mid table Premiership security.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on February 01, 2020, 07:36:00 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on February 01, 2020, 06:14:04 PM
Yes but it doesn’t end now. If we put in more performances like today then it won’t be ok when all is said and done. Losing twice to Bournemouth is really poor whichever way you look at it.
This ...... I remember saying to VCTM jnr after the Bournemouth game at Villa Park " if we can't beat the likes of these teams we are gonna struggle " Not rocket science I know but we should be battling these sides for 90+ mins and not just for 45mins ....Smith says we will be judged on how we do against those sides around us ....well today just wasn't good enough - more performances like that and we will deserve to be relegated
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on February 01, 2020, 07:37:34 PM
Quote from: brian green on February 01, 2020, 07:35:28 PM
I would swap that all day long for mid table Premiership security.

Which wasn't the point. We obviously haven't fucked it all up given where we currently are.

End of season may be a different matter mind.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on February 01, 2020, 07:42:07 PM
Quote from: SheffieldVillain on February 01, 2020, 07:10:43 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 01, 2020, 06:58:42 PM
Quote from: walsall villain on February 01, 2020, 06:03:11 PM
I think he’s doing ok too. Play off winners always struggle so this was sort of what I expected.


Play off winners dont spend 150m and be consistently shit most of the season. They can at least do a bit better on the road.

They do spend £150m if they need to bring in 16 players. As for play-off winners not being consistently shit most of their first season up, the facts would suggest differently:
2013-4 - QPR promoted through playoffs, finished 20th - relegated
2014-5 - Norwich promoted through playoffs, finished 19th - relegated
2015-6 - Hull promoted through playoffs, finished 18th - relegated
2016-7 - Huddersfield promoted through playoffs, finished 16th & 4 points from relegation zone
2017-8 - Fulham promoted through playoffs, finished 19th - relegated
2018-9 - Us promoted through playoffs, currently 17th & 1 point from relegation zone

If you look at it as we were the lowest team at the start of the season - the statistically worst team to come up from the Championship, the goal is to move up from that to at minimum 17th. We are in the battle for that. Not saying that we've been great, or mistakes haven't been made or even that if we want to push on to midtable and then top 6 Smith is the man, but at the moment we are doing exactly what history suggests a team in our position is likely to do, in fact slightly better.


I think after a disappointing day like today your post puts things into a reasonable perspective and makes perfect sense. Let's not forget as League Cup and promotion winners under Ron Saunders we finished 16th in our first season after promotion in 1976 and in our first season back in the top flight under SGT in 1989 we finished 17th out of twenty, one point ahead of the relegation places.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on February 01, 2020, 07:45:01 PM
I did not say it was the point.  I was expressing a point of view.  To whit cup runs come and go, quality is permanent.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on February 01, 2020, 07:50:25 PM
Quote from: Damo70 on February 01, 2020, 07:42:07 PM
Quote from: SheffieldVillain on February 01, 2020, 07:10:43 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 01, 2020, 06:58:42 PM
Quote from: walsall villain on February 01, 2020, 06:03:11 PM
I think he’s doing ok too. Play off winners always struggle so this was sort of what I expected.


Play off winners dont spend 150m and be consistently shit most of the season. They can at least do a bit better on the road.

They do spend £150m if they need to bring in 16 players. As for play-off winners not being consistently shit most of their first season up, the facts would suggest differently:
2013-4 - QPR promoted through playoffs, finished 20th - relegated
2014-5 - Norwich promoted through playoffs, finished 19th - relegated
2015-6 - Hull promoted through playoffs, finished 18th - relegated
2016-7 - Huddersfield promoted through playoffs, finished 16th & 4 points from relegation zone
2017-8 - Fulham promoted through playoffs, finished 19th - relegated
2018-9 - Us promoted through playoffs, currently 17th & 1 point from relegation zone

If you look at it as we were the lowest team at the start of the season - the statistically worst team to come up from the Championship, the goal is to move up from that to at minimum 17th. We are in the battle for that. Not saying that we've been great, or mistakes haven't been made or even that if we want to push on to midtable and then top 6 Smith is the man, but at the moment we are doing exactly what history suggests a team in our position is likely to do, in fact slightly better.


I think after a disappointing day like today your post puts things into a reasonable perspective and makes perfect sense. Let's not forget as League Cup and promotion winners under Ron Saunders we finished 16th in our first season after promotion in 1976 and in our first season back in the top flight under SGT in 1989 we finished 17th out of twenty, one point ahead of the relegation places.
No worries then...Premier League Champions 2025 and Champions of Europe 2026 .....easy eh ? Positive thinking , that's what we all need to do
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on February 01, 2020, 07:54:07 PM
The £150m is a red herring.

We had to spend that money, we were starting from a position of barely having enough players to form a team, let alone a squad. We HAD to spend money to get the numbers up.

If anything, we didn't spend enough, we got the numbers up but I don't think we got the quality up enough.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 01, 2020, 07:55:54 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on February 01, 2020, 07:54:07 PM
The £150m is a red herring.

We had to spend that money, we were starting from a position of barely having enough players to form a team, let alone a squad. We HAD to spend money to get the numbers up.

If anything, we didn't spend enough, we got the numbers up but I don't think we got the quality up enough.

I agree and we didn’t even get the numbers up enough, see striking options.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on February 01, 2020, 07:57:52 PM
I seem to be hair splitting tonight, for which I apologise but I would think the amount spent is secondary to how well the money has been spent.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: David_Nab on February 01, 2020, 07:59:03 PM
Quote from: brian green on February 01, 2020, 07:28:28 PM
Is it just me or are players these days much more prone to massive form swings?  Fancying it or not fancying it  on the day seems to be the new norm.  Nakamba was unrecognizable as the player last Tuesday night.

Billing / Lerma bullied the mf and in general we were out numbered in there , this was a game where you need one of the cb's to push further up to help in MF but all 3 were all over the place.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on February 01, 2020, 08:07:14 PM
Quote from: David_Nab on February 01, 2020, 07:59:03 PM
Quote from: brian green on February 01, 2020, 07:28:28 PM
Is it just me or are players these days much more prone to massive form swings?  Fancying it or not fancying it  on the day seems to be the new norm.  Nakamba was unrecognizable as the player last Tuesday night.

Billing / Lerma bullied the mf and in general we were out numbered in there , this was a game where you need one of the cb's to push further up to help in MF but all 3 were all over the place.

Let's be honest. We might as well not have a fucking midfield in the first place, for all the time they spend out of position, unable to retain possession or play a simple pass along the ground to another player in a Villa shirt.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 01, 2020, 08:07:20 PM
Quote from: David_Nab on February 01, 2020, 07:59:03 PM
Quote from: brian green on February 01, 2020, 07:28:28 PM
Is it just me or are players these days much more prone to massive form swings?  Fancying it or not fancying it  on the day seems to be the new norm.  Nakamba was unrecognizable as the player last Tuesday night.

Billing / Lerma bullied the mf and in general we were out numbered in there , this was a game where you need one of the cb's to push further up to help in MF but all 3 were all over the place.
Yep l been saying the same all season, we give up on the Centre of midfield and hope our wide players and a Jack can win it for us. This strategy often fails and The reason we are likely to go down.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on February 01, 2020, 08:09:24 PM
We should have signed a combative, enforcer type. Instead we signed Drinklager. Waste of everyones time.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on February 01, 2020, 08:11:35 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on February 01, 2020, 07:37:34 PM
Quote from: brian green on February 01, 2020, 07:35:28 PM
I would swap that all day long for mid table Premiership security.

Which wasn't the point. We obviously haven't fucked it all up given where we currently are.

End of season may be a different matter mind.

I think you’re referring to my post and it's a fair challenge. I did say *in the event that* we go down, and I’d also echo what Brian says. Cup finals are nice and all but irrelevant with respect to staying up which is much more important and what I was specifically thinking about.

We spent a lot of money in the summer. Yes, we had gaps to fill but then we also had two players who would probably have walked into any almost any team in the league, and can Norwich and sheff Utd say that? 3 if you include Mings.

Whichever way you look at it, we don’t appear to have spent our money very effectively, or got the most out of our players via coaching and tactics.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on February 01, 2020, 08:14:58 PM
Yes you did say that, sorry.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on February 01, 2020, 08:23:00 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on February 01, 2020, 07:54:07 PM
The £150m is a red herring.

We had to spend that money, we were starting from a position of barely having enough players to form a team, let alone a squad. We HAD to spend money to get the numbers up.

If anything, we didn't spend enough, we got the numbers up but I don't think we got the quality up enough.

agreed. The question is could we have under the rules? Because surely if it was as simple as failing to bring in 2 or 3 more players for another 30-40m back in August, come January we wouldn't have been pissing about with Danny Drinkwater on loan and some bloke on a free from Swansea.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on February 01, 2020, 08:24:57 PM
To clarify my point of view.  If you said to me at the start of the season come the end of January you will be in a Wembley cup final and secure in the Premiership I would have bitten your hand off but we are not secure in the Premiership at the end of January we are teetering on the brink of the relegation places and playing very inconsistently.  If it has to be either or I want security in the top flight.  That is my view.  Others may well disagree.  I get that.  I was walking on air on Tuesday night like every other Villa fan.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: itmustbe_it is! on February 01, 2020, 08:32:01 PM
I don't get this "which would you prefer, cup final or Premier League survival" thing.

I want both, obviously
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on February 01, 2020, 08:49:19 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 01, 2020, 06:58:42 PM
Quote from: walsall villain on February 01, 2020, 06:03:11 PM
I think he’s doing ok too. Play off winners always struggle so this was sort of what I expected.


Play off winners dont spend 150m and be consistently shit most of the season. They can at least do a bit better on the road.

In my view smiths under achieving badly and invested very poorly.

What about all the established teams at this level who have spent 100m +? West Ham spend that and below us. Brighton spent a fair bit in the last 12 months on forward players alone.

Everton spent 500m + in last three years and are only now starting to pull clear into the top half.

Spending money is always just a part of it. We could've spent much less, picked up some steady eddie free transfers like Gary Cahill and I reckon we'd have 3-4 more points on the board but then you don't build as much for the long term.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on February 01, 2020, 08:52:29 PM
That could be the difference between going down and staying up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on February 01, 2020, 09:05:17 PM
Agree soccer. The parallels with 15/16 are strong. I don’t think any of the signings are actually bad and I’m positive that they have all increased their value this season, and will go onto good things. But they are also all hot and cold, wildly inconsistent, which you would expect of young players adapting to a new, highly competitive league. Luiz and Marvelous both great cases in point. Great players on his their day but have both vanished in really key games and cost us some important goals. Given they were initially thought to be coming into the whelan void, instead of Kalvin Phillips, that’s just not the profile of player you want there at all.

I really think we are a couple of outfield heatons short of a good mid table team and it’s annoying we didn’t get them in.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SheffieldVillain on February 01, 2020, 09:07:37 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on February 01, 2020, 08:49:19 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 01, 2020, 06:58:42 PM
Quote from: walsall villain on February 01, 2020, 06:03:11 PM
I think he’s doing ok too. Play off winners always struggle so this was sort of what I expected.


Play off winners dont spend 150m and be consistently shit most of the season. They can at least do a bit better on the road.

In my view smiths under achieving badly and invested very poorly.

What about all the established teams at this level who have spent 100m +? West Ham spend that and below us. Brighton spent a fair bit in the last 12 months on forward players alone.

Everton spent 500m + in last three years and are only now starting to pull clear into the top half.

Spending money is always just a part of it. We could've spent much less, picked up some steady eddie free transfers like Gary Cahill and I reckon we'd have 3-4 more points on the board but then you don't build as much for the long term.

Also, even steady eddie free transfers of the type you've mentioned cost in terms of wages.

Cahill is reputed to be on £80k+ per week at Palace over two years. That's nearly £5m per season on the books and no chance of any back.

Konsa, who we got instead, cost a £13m fee spread over a four year contract for FFP purposes plus £30k per week (£1.5m per season, £6m in total), with the added possibility of a highly rated England U21 centre half increasing substantially in value by the end of that.

From an FFP perspective, you can absolutely see why those kind of decisions were made.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SheffieldVillain on February 01, 2020, 09:11:21 PM
Quote from: themossman on February 01, 2020, 09:05:17 PM
Agree soccer. The parallels with 15/16 are strong. I don’t think any of the signings are actually bad and I’m positive that they have all increased their value this season, and will go onto good things. But they are also all hot and cold, wildly inconsistent, which you would expect of young players adapting to a new, highly competitive league. Luiz and Marvelous both great cases in point. Great players on his their day but have both vanished in really key games and cost us some important goals. Given they were initially thought to be coming into the whelan void, instead of Kalvin Phillips, that’s just not the profile of player you want there at all.

I really think we are a couple of outfield heatons short of a good mid table team and it’s annoying we didn’t get them in.

Kalvin Phillips, Neal Maupay, Jarrad Bowen, Said Benrahma and others who people have continually said we should have blown £20m-£30m each on from the Championship are no more proven than any of our signings and would equally have been young players adapting to a new, highly competitive league. Maupay in particular has given roughly equal value to Brighton as Wesley has to us.

Spending the £30m Leeds asked for Phillips (and I speak as someone who wanted him) would have been utter madness given our FFP position.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 01, 2020, 09:16:08 PM
I think Phillips will be worth double that in 2-3 years, so not madness at all. He’d be miles better than Nakamba, and finishing a few places higher in the league offsets FFP a fair bit.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on February 01, 2020, 09:17:15 PM
Take your point but I do think stand out players from top end championship teams are less of a risk than players moving to the country for the first time.

The thing about Phillips that annoys me the most ( and I also agree about the price) is that we didn’t even replace him with a cheaper player of the same type. We seemed to move onto an entirely different profile of player. Same with Abraham > Wes.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 01, 2020, 09:18:07 PM
Perhaps we'll be back in for him in the summer, as Leeds continue to fall apart. Again.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 01, 2020, 09:19:02 PM
Poor game management when they went down to 10 men.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SheffieldVillain on February 01, 2020, 09:20:12 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 01, 2020, 09:16:08 PM
I think Phillips will be worth double that in 2-3 years, so not madness at all. He’d be miles better than Nakamba, and finishing a few places higher in the league offsets FFP a fair bit.

It would have been madness though. We're teetering on the edge of breaking FFP as it is. Spending £30m on him wouldn't have meant just not buying Nakamba for £10m but not buying 3 of the players who we did. If you think there are holes in the squad now, try a midfield where we didn't buy Nakamba, Luiz or Trezeguet (for example). It would have been Lansbury every week.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SheffieldVillain on February 01, 2020, 09:20:57 PM
Quote from: Ads on February 01, 2020, 09:18:07 PM
Perhaps we'll be back in for him in the summer, as Leeds continue to fall apart. Again.

Ah, thank you, you've just reminded me I need to wind up a Leeds supporting friend.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 01, 2020, 09:21:52 PM
Quote from: SheffieldVillain on February 01, 2020, 09:20:12 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 01, 2020, 09:16:08 PM
I think Phillips will be worth double that in 2-3 years, so not madness at all. He’d be miles better than Nakamba, and finishing a few places higher in the league offsets FFP a fair bit.

It would have been madness though. We're teetering on the edge of breaking FFP as it is. Spending £30m on him wouldn't have meant just not buying Nakamba for £10m but not buying 3 of the players who we did. If you think there are holes in the squad now, try a midfield where we didn't buy Nakamba, Luiz or Trezeguet (for example). It would have been Lansbury every week.

That’s pure guesswork though.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SheffieldVillain on February 01, 2020, 09:22:45 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 01, 2020, 09:21:52 PM
Quote from: SheffieldVillain on February 01, 2020, 09:20:12 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 01, 2020, 09:16:08 PM
I think Phillips will be worth double that in 2-3 years, so not madness at all. He’d be miles better than Nakamba, and finishing a few places higher in the league offsets FFP a fair bit.

It would have been madness though. We're teetering on the edge of breaking FFP as it is. Spending £30m on him wouldn't have meant just not buying Nakamba for £10m but not buying 3 of the players who we did. If you think there are holes in the squad now, try a midfield where we didn't buy Nakamba, Luiz or Trezeguet (for example). It would have been Lansbury every week.

That’s pure guesswork though.

Not really guesswork that the extra £20m spent would have impacted FFP.

Also, whereas Phillips being worth double in 2-3 years wasn't?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on February 01, 2020, 09:24:59 PM
Quote from: themossman on February 01, 2020, 09:05:17 PM
Agree soccer. The parallels with 15/16 are strong. I don’t think any of the signings are actually bad and I’m positive that they have all increased their value this season, and will go onto good things. But they are also all hot and cold, wildly inconsistent, which you would expect of young players adapting to a new, highly competitive league. Luiz and Marvelous both great cases in point. Great players on his their day but have both vanished in really key games and cost us some important goals. Given they were initially thought to be coming into the whelan void, instead of Kalvin Phillips, that’s just not the profile of player you want there at all.

I really think we are a couple of outfield heatons short of a good mid table team and it’s annoying we didn’t get them in.

There are elements of 15/16 in our transfer strategy certainly. As regards the season I think it could be similar to 12/13. Lots of optimism pre season, poor start then we were playing o.k before an awful xmas period.

Then just when we looked down and out we picked up and finished te season comfortably staying up playing some really good football.

We were in a far worse position that February (and indeed the one when Lambert was finally sacked) than now imo but the teams at the bottom are picking up more points.

This time last season I think we'd have been 4-5 points clear of 18th.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 01, 2020, 09:27:09 PM
The problem with our transfer strategy in 2015 was that we replaced Benteke with a Lampost.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on February 01, 2020, 09:28:30 PM
I guess I’m mixing two points, cohesiveness of the transfer strategy and way the limited funds were allocated. What I think ties them together, is that the position where we absolutely should have got it right, and spent what we needed to within reason to get it right, is that CDM role where we had nobody in the squad to fill it. That for me odd the one place you want guaranteed 7/10+ performances every week because otherwise the shape of the team can fall apart, causing problems at both ends.

Our failure to fill that role properly is the reason we failed to get the most out of jack and SJM in those early games where we threw points away for fun.

I’d rather have gone very cheap on the striker and concentrated on supporting those 2 in attack.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 01, 2020, 09:40:42 PM
Quote from: themossman on February 01, 2020, 09:28:30 PM
I guess I’m mixing two points, cohesiveness of the transfer strategy and way the limited funds were allocated. What I think ties them together, is that the position where we absolutely should have got it right, and spent what we needed to within reason to get it right, is that CDM role where we had nobody in the squad to fill it. That for me odd the one place you want guaranteed 7/10+ performances every week because otherwise the shape of the team can fall apart, causing problems at both ends.

Our failure to fill that role properly is the reason we failed to get the most out of jack and SJM in those early games where we threw points away for fun.

I’d rather have gone very cheap on the striker and concentrated on supporting those 2 in attack.
Dead right.
You will not win many games if you surrender the midfield.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on February 01, 2020, 09:49:02 PM
I don't think Phillips was ever an option, his club didn't want to sell, he didn't want to leave. He's their version of Jack and he was always staying for another shot at promotion. If they don't go up this season I think that could be different and he'll probably go, same as it would have been for us and Jack in the summer if we hadn't gone up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: algy on February 02, 2020, 08:04:41 AM
Quote from: itmustbe_it is! on February 01, 2020, 08:32:01 PM
I don't get this "which would you prefer, cup final or Premier League survival" thing.

I want both, obviously
I don't. I want to win a cup final, and survival!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villafirst on February 02, 2020, 08:33:17 AM
Smith's after match comments are like a broken record with these type of defeats. All too familiar and seemingly no plan B. Players continually make the same mistakes. The frequency of giving the ball away is unbelievable - you can't give it away cheaply in this League without getting punished.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OzVilla on February 02, 2020, 08:56:22 AM
I thought they’d learn and adapt as the season went on and they gained experience. I now know they won’t and can’t because ,right now, too many of them are not good enough. That goes for both management and players.

This is going to go to the wire.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on February 02, 2020, 09:09:09 AM
it will and i can't see beyond relegation at the moment as we are too inexperienced and thus too inconsistent. A Cup final win and the former might save Dean and Co, but losing badly against City and going down won't.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KRS on February 02, 2020, 09:14:24 AM
The inconsistency of our performances is extremely frustrating. A great performance against Leicester taking us to Wembley and then a clusterfuck at Bournemouth who leapfrog us in the PL table. How do you even begin to account for that mismatch in performance levels? After the Leicester win, Jack stated and was clearly frustrated that a few weeks ago the team could hardly string 5 passes together, yet we seem to have gone back to that level within the space of just a few days. Very frustrating and Smith needs to get a grip of and address these issues if we are to have any chance of staying up this season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Demitri_C on February 02, 2020, 09:41:54 AM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on February 01, 2020, 08:49:19 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 01, 2020, 06:58:42 PM
Quote from: walsall villain on February 01, 2020, 06:03:11 PM
I think he’s doing ok too. Play off winners always struggle so this was sort of what I expected.


Play off winners dont spend 150m and be consistently shit most of the season. They can at least do a bit better on the road.

In my view smiths under achieving badly and invested very poorly.

What about all the established teams at this level who have spent 100m +? West Ham spend that and below us. Brighton spent a fair bit in the last 12 months on forward players alone.

Everton spent 500m + in last three years and are only now starting to pull clear into the top half.

Spending money is always just a part of it. We could've spent much less, picked up some steady eddie free transfers like Gary Cahill and I reckon we'd have 3-4 more points on the board but then you don't build as much for the long term.

Im not really concerned about west ham im concerned about us. Sheffield united spent peanuts and they are doing fantastic. We on the other hand look like a 40 minute team. When was the last time we dominated a whole game?

I cant think of many. I thjnk the mkmey was poorly invested as well. 22m on wes 12m on trez and el ghazi is so hit and cold.

I dont rate hause either think he is just a bumbling clumsy cb. God knows where jota is as well. Thats close to 50m wasted.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: N'ZMAV on February 02, 2020, 09:44:19 AM
Sheff Utd are probably showing what can happen if you give a manager time, and all work together on a plan...
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: N'ZMAV on February 02, 2020, 09:44:50 AM
West Ham are showing what throwing big money along with instability creates...
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 02, 2020, 09:49:51 AM
Quote from: mr underhill on February 02, 2020, 09:09:09 AM
it will and i can't see beyond relegation at the moment as we are too inexperienced and thus too inconsistent. A Cup final win and the former might save Dean and Co, but losing badly against City and going down won't.

That's a shock.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aev on February 02, 2020, 09:50:22 AM
Quote from: N'ZMAV on February 02, 2020, 09:44:19 AM
Sheff Utd are probably showing what can happen if you give a manager time, and all work together on a plan...

Wilder has been fantastic. On paper I wouldn't swap any of their players for ours, but they are so well coached.

I know we have injuries to key players, but I struggle to see the impact of coaching on our lot. Is this because of the coaching itself, the players unable or unwilling to be be coached, or simply the the number of new players we have had to integrate?

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Luke8 on February 02, 2020, 09:56:53 AM
Quote from: KRS on February 02, 2020, 09:14:24 AM
The inconsistency of our performances is extremely frustrating. A great performance against Leicester taking us to Wembley and then a clusterfuck at Bournemouth who leapfrog us in the PL table. How do you even begin to account for that mismatch in performance levels? After the Leicester win, Jack stated and was clearly frustrated that a few weeks ago the team could hardly string 5 passes together, yet we seem to have gone back to that level within the space of just a few days. Very frustrating and Smith needs to get a grip of and address these issues if we are to have any chance of staying up this season.

Pretty much all teams are like that this season. Burnley lost at home to us and then went and beat Leicester and Man United. Watford were unbeaten in six and above us before we beat them.

It’s probably forgotten a bit that we have a pretty young team - I think it was a combined outfield age of about 24 yesterday - combined with the fact that over half have probably played less than twenty games together for us. It’s frustrating, I agree, but I think it’s understandable that performances are inconsistent.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SheffieldVillain on February 02, 2020, 10:01:10 AM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 02, 2020, 09:41:54 AM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on February 01, 2020, 08:49:19 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 01, 2020, 06:58:42 PM
Quote from: walsall villain on February 01, 2020, 06:03:11 PM
I think he’s doing ok too. Play off winners always struggle so this was sort of what I expected.


Play off winners dont spend 150m and be consistently shit most of the season. They can at least do a bit better on the road.

In my view smiths under achieving badly and invested very poorly.

What about all the established teams at this level who have spent 100m +? West Ham spend that and below us. Brighton spent a fair bit in the last 12 months on forward players alone.

Everton spent 500m + in last three years and are only now starting to pull clear into the top half.

Spending money is always just a part of it. We could've spent much less, picked up some steady eddie free transfers like Gary Cahill and I reckon we'd have 3-4 more points on the board but then you don't build as much for the long term.

Im not really concerned about west ham im concerned about us. Sheffield united spent peanuts and they are doing fantastic. We on the other hand look like a 40 minute team.

You're only concerned about other teams when they suit your argument then?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nastylee on February 02, 2020, 10:07:31 AM
It's still anybodies. There's a number of teams in the shit. We still need 4 wins to be sure. I wouldn't say anyone around us is feeling anymore confident that us. Watford's honeymoon looks over, West Ham have a horrible run which could derail them, Norwich are gone, Brighton can't win a raffle and B'mouth have a had a couple of results just like we did. Plenty of twists and turns to come. We do need a result against a team we normally lose to though.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: DB on February 02, 2020, 10:09:13 AM
Quote from: N'ZMAV on February 02, 2020, 09:44:19 AM
Sheff Utd are probably showing what can happen if you give a manager time, and all work together on a plan...

I get what you are saying from your 2 posts, but look at Norwich, not splashing cash and have faith in their manager but are going down. I don’t think there is 1 rule clubs will follow and do good.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 02, 2020, 10:21:31 AM
The only thing you can take from Sheffield United is that Wilder is an absolutely brilliant manager.  All this "stick with a manager" business depends on that manager being the right one, as very few people were advocating keeping Sherwood or Bruce for example.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on February 02, 2020, 10:23:56 AM
On the Cup or League argument, I'd just say that the cup has largely been lineups made up of our second string. Which hadn't had much effect on the first team other than sering Konsa do well and get promoted Nyland perform great to make us all feel more secure with Heaton out and let the likes of Taylor, Targett and Elmo get some useful game time.

Smith is managing the squad. We're on the edge and our season could go South from here and we finish bottom. Or we could do great and finish 8th. Or we could continue with the inconsistency and hover where we are. The latter is far more likely in my view though obviously we'd all like to be winning the league.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Demitri_C on February 02, 2020, 11:01:58 AM
Quote from: SheffieldVillain on February 02, 2020, 10:01:10 AM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 02, 2020, 09:41:54 AM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on February 01, 2020, 08:49:19 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 01, 2020, 06:58:42 PM
Quote from: walsall villain on February 01, 2020, 06:03:11 PM
I think he’s doing ok too. Play off winners always struggle so this was sort of what I expected.


Play off winners dont spend 150m and be consistently shit most of the season. They can at least do a bit better on the road.

In my view smiths under achieving badly and invested very poorly.

What about all the established teams at this level who have spent 100m +? West Ham spend that and below us. Brighton spent a fair bit in the last 12 months on forward players alone.

Everton spent 500m + in last three years and are only now starting to pull clear into the top half.

Spending money is always just a part of it. We could've spent much less, picked up some steady eddie free transfers like Gary Cahill and I reckon we'd have 3-4 more points on the board but then you don't build as much for the long term.

Im not really concerned about west ham im concerned about us. Sheffield united spent peanuts and they are doing fantastic. We on the other hand look like a 40 minute team.

You're only concerned about other teams when they suit your argument then?

Just as you choose to ignore my sheffield united point then?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SheffieldVillain on February 02, 2020, 11:06:55 AM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 02, 2020, 11:01:58 AM
Quote from: SheffieldVillain on February 02, 2020, 10:01:10 AM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 02, 2020, 09:41:54 AM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on February 01, 2020, 08:49:19 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 01, 2020, 06:58:42 PM
Quote from: walsall villain on February 01, 2020, 06:03:11 PM
I think he’s doing ok too. Play off winners always struggle so this was sort of what I expected.


Play off winners dont spend 150m and be consistently shit most of the season. They can at least do a bit better on the road.

In my view smiths under achieving badly and invested very poorly.

What about all the established teams at this level who have spent 100m +? West Ham spend that and below us. Brighton spent a fair bit in the last 12 months on forward players alone.

Everton spent 500m + in last three years and are only now starting to pull clear into the top half.

Spending money is always just a part of it. We could've spent much less, picked up some steady eddie free transfers like Gary Cahill and I reckon we'd have 3-4 more points on the board but then you don't build as much for the long term.

Im not really concerned about west ham im concerned about us. Sheffield united spent peanuts and they are doing fantastic. We on the other hand look like a 40 minute team.

You're only concerned about other teams when they suit your argument then?

Just as you choose to ignore my sheffield united point then?

Well, no, not like that at all really given that I've just directly replied to your point about Sheffield United. Keep up.

You were the one who said they weren't concerned about other teams then banged on about Sheffield United. You're even managing to diasagree with yourself now. Which is understandable.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: walsall villain on February 02, 2020, 11:10:16 AM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 02, 2020, 11:01:58 AM
Quote from: SheffieldVillain on February 02, 2020, 10:01:10 AM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 02, 2020, 09:41:54 AM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on February 01, 2020, 08:49:19 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 01, 2020, 06:58:42 PM
Quote from: walsall villain on February 01, 2020, 06:03:11 PM
I think he’s doing ok too. Play off winners always struggle so this was sort of what I expected.


Play off winners dont spend 150m and be consistently shit most of the season. They can at least do a bit better on the road.

In my view smiths under achieving badly and invested very poorly.

What about all the established teams at this level who have spent 100m +? West Ham spend that and below us. Brighton spent a fair bit in the last 12 months on forward players alone.

Everton spent 500m + in last three years and are only now starting to pull clear into the top half.

Spending money is always just a part of it. We could've spent much less, picked up some steady eddie free transfers like Gary Cahill and I reckon we'd have 3-4 more points on the board but then you don't build as much for the long term.

Im not really concerned about west ham im concerned about us. Sheffield united spent peanuts and they are doing fantastic. We on the other hand look like a 40 minute team.

You're only concerned about other teams when they suit your argument then?

Just as you choose to ignore my sheffield united point then?
Sheffield United developed their squad over 2-3 seasons and went up easily with that settled squad. This time last year we were bumbling along half way down the league. Promotion was a minor miracle from that position. We’ve had to put a team together very quickly and it’s bloody difficult.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: passport1 on February 02, 2020, 11:22:00 AM
That's the point though. We had the opportunity to put a decent balanced squad together . What we got is far from  decent or balanced.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: old man villa fan on February 02, 2020, 11:26:23 AM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 02, 2020, 09:41:54 AM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on February 01, 2020, 08:49:19 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 01, 2020, 06:58:42 PM
Quote from: walsall villain on February 01, 2020, 06:03:11 PM
I think he’s doing ok too. Play off winners always struggle so this was sort of what I expected.


Play off winners dont spend 150m and be consistently shit most of the season. They can at least do a bit better on the road.

In my view smiths under achieving badly and invested very poorly.

What about all the established teams at this level who have spent 100m +? West Ham spend that and below us. Brighton spent a fair bit in the last 12 months on forward players alone.

Everton spent 500m + in last three years and are only now starting to pull clear into the top half.

Spending money is always just a part of it. We could've spent much less, picked up some steady eddie free transfers like Gary Cahill and I reckon we'd have 3-4 more points on the board but then you don't build as much for the long term.

Im not really concerned about west ham im concerned about us. Sheffield united spent peanuts and they are doing fantastic. We on the other hand look like a 40 minute team. When was the last time we dominated a whole game?

I cant think of many. I thjnk the mkmey was poorly invested as well. 22m on wes 12m on trez and el ghazi is so hit and cold.

I dont rate hause either think he is just a bumbling clumsy cb. God knows where jota is as well. Thats close to 50m wasted.



Sheffield Utd have been building slowly for a number of years.  Wilder has built a squad over this time that has consistency and belief in themselves.  He hasn't had to throw it together overnight.  Although not starting from so low, Sheffield remind me a bit of Watford all those years ago under Taylor but without the couple of players that became top stars.

As for wasting the best part of £50m (it's probably closer to £40m) on 5 players, it is easy with hindsight to say it was wasted but trying to buy players for an average of £8-10m and expecting them to be mid-table PL players is bloody difficult.  It looks as though we are being held back on spending by FFP and perhaps the extra £10m we had to spend on Mings held us back on other buys.

It is easy to be extremely critical when things are not going well.  We are all disappointed but people have to be realistic and take everything into account.  The players we have make us into a mid-table team at best.  Take out a couple of key players and we are a relegation fighting team.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 02, 2020, 11:26:47 AM
No we didn't, we had to fill a chasm and sign 12 players. That's a ridiculous situation for any club. You don't develop a quality, balanced squad in an 8 week window.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SheffieldVillain on February 02, 2020, 11:28:42 AM
Quote from: passport1 on February 02, 2020, 11:22:00 AM
That's the point though. We had the opportunity to put a decent balanced squad together . What we got is far from  decent or balanced.

Yet are achieving as much or even slightly more than the playoff winners do every year. I'd argue that if we stay up of which there is still a fair chance, that is very much decent.

You are never going to do the amount of ins and outs we have especially under FFP restrictions like ours and have covered every want and need first season round.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Luke8 on February 02, 2020, 11:32:27 AM
I do think he got the Trezeguet substitution wrong yesterday. Bournemouth were too deep by that stage for Trez to have much of an impact and it ended up forcing Jack too deep. Think Connor for Nakamba was the sub to make at that stage.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: old man villa fan on February 02, 2020, 11:33:57 AM
Quote from: passport1 on February 02, 2020, 11:22:00 AM
That's the point though. We had the opportunity to put a decent balanced squad together . What we got is far from  decent or balanced.

I think it is balanced in how we have spent money.  We had to address goalkeeper, defence, midfield and forwards, which we did in tring to build a team.  It looks as though the money was spent too thin but that looks to be because of FFP, not because that is the limit of what we wanted to spend.  There have to be players out there to buy at the right price and I do not think there are.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on February 02, 2020, 11:35:53 AM
We spent £120m+on 12 players and how many of them actually look good players? The vast majority have had more poor games than decent ones.

We've lost the second most games and conceded the most goals. We are soft and easy to beat and that is not a good return on a huge investment, whether we had a lot of work to do or not, we had the money to do it and actually look a poorer side now than the early part of the season.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: old man villa fan on February 02, 2020, 11:42:39 AM
Quote from: aj2k77 on February 02, 2020, 11:35:53 AM
We spent £120m+on 12 players and how many of them actually look good players? The vast majority have had more poor games than decent ones.

We've lost the second most games and conceded the most goals. We are soft and easy to beat and that is not a good return on a huge investment, whether we had a lot of work to do or not, we had the money to do it and actually look a poorer side now than the early part of the season.



As I said above, an average of around £10m per player doesn't guarantee to buy you good, or even average, PL players.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on February 02, 2020, 02:39:52 PM
But much of it is attitude. We didn't even have a go at Bournemouth. They were first to everything. Our tactic was long ball after long ball from the likes Kortney Hause who thought he was Inesta. That was completely wasteful and just kept giving the ball back to them. I get the consistency of playing staff and manager at Sheff Utd but they also have a defined approach. We should have goone into yesterday's game at minimum on an even footing mentally to Bournemouth. Given our recent win vs Leicester maybe even the more confident of the two sides. It never looked like that in the first half and only did so in the second late on after their red card. That's not just the players, it starts with the message from the manager on how to play.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Big Ming on February 02, 2020, 02:48:14 PM
I don't get the feeling that Deano is a brilliant "fight them on the beaches" type motivator.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: David_Nab on February 02, 2020, 03:39:14 PM
Quote from: Luke8 on February 02, 2020, 11:32:27 AM
I do think he got the Trezeguet substitution wrong yesterday. Bournemouth were too deep by that stage for Trez to have much of an impact and it ended up forcing Jack too deep. Think Connor for Nakamba was the sub to make at that stage.

Sub was a CB off , pointless leaving 3 cbs on against 10 men defending their lead sitting back.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 02, 2020, 03:42:31 PM
Quote from: David_Nab on February 02, 2020, 03:39:14 PM
Quote from: Luke8 on February 02, 2020, 11:32:27 AM
I do think he got the Trezeguet substitution wrong yesterday. Bournemouth were too deep by that stage for Trez to have much of an impact and it ended up forcing Jack too deep. Think Connor for Nakamba was the sub to make at that stage.

Sub was a CB off , pointless leaving 3 cbs on against 10 men defending their lead sitting back.
Yep,
They had one up front.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on February 02, 2020, 03:50:35 PM
Quote from: Ads on February 02, 2020, 11:26:47 AM
No we didn't, we had to fill a chasm and sign 12 players. That's a ridiculous situation for any club. You don't develop a quality, balanced squad in an 8 week window.

Indeed you don't but you'd hope even expect you'd teach them to pass the ball to each other in 7 months. We're really struggling with the basics. Any promoted team know that to survive the first season you need to build from the back with a strong, solid defence. Ours is currently the (joint) worst having already shipped 47 goals.

It's worth noting Sheff Utd have the second best defence in the league and to further prove the point, they've only won two more games than us. They're bloody hard to beat which is why they're currently sitting in 5th place. They're organised, we're not despite it being the area where we have plenty of options.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: David_Nab on February 02, 2020, 04:03:18 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 02, 2020, 03:42:31 PM
Quote from: David_Nab on February 02, 2020, 03:39:14 PM
Quote from: Luke8 on February 02, 2020, 11:32:27 AM
I do think he got the Trezeguet substitution wrong yesterday. Bournemouth were too deep by that stage for Trez to have much of an impact and it ended up forcing Jack too deep. Think Connor for Nakamba was the sub to make at that stage.

Sub was a CB off , pointless leaving 3 cbs on against 10 men defending their lead sitting back.
Yep,
They had one up front.

15 mins to go , needing a goal you have Conner on bench who for all his weakness's can get a goal for distance or a set piece and we carry on with the 3 cbs just ambling along trying to start attacks.With them all on we almost conceded a 3rd when Mings pushed up front and left space for the counter ..I give credit to Smith for the subs Tuesday , yesterday however the final sub effectively ended the game.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Fulford on February 02, 2020, 04:09:23 PM
I don't think Smith has the motivational skills to be a top manager in the PL.

In most games we start on the back foot and the players look tense as if they have no belief in their ability to beat the opposition.

Yesterday we saw Eddie Howe motivating his players from the sidelines when they were under the cosh whereas Smith stood silently on the touchline miserably looking at his watch.

He gets plenty of slack from the fans as he's one of us. Can you imagine any other manager getting away with the drivel we serve up week in week out.

If hopefully we manage to stay up I hope the club at least look around and make enquiries as to whether we can attract a top name to Villa Park.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SheffieldVillain on February 02, 2020, 04:12:43 PM
Quote from: Fulford on February 02, 2020, 04:09:23 PM
He gets plenty of slack from the fans as he's one of us. Can you imagine any other manager getting away with the drivel we serve up week in week out.

Nothing do with that in just over one season he has got us promoted and to a cup final then?

And to the second point, yes. Fans were equally patient with Bruce, Lambert and a number of others, with far less in return.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Fulford on February 02, 2020, 04:21:15 PM
Quote from: SheffieldVillain on February 02, 2020, 04:12:43 PM
Quote from: Fulford on February 02, 2020, 04:09:23 PM
He gets plenty of slack from the fans as he's one of us. Can you imagine any other manager getting away with the drivel we serve up week in week out.

Nothing do with that in just over one season he has got us promoted and to a cup final then?

And to the second point, yes. Fans were equally patient with Bruce, Lambert and a number of others, with far less in return.

Getting us promoted shouldn't have been difficult given the squad. Yes Bruce made a pigs ear of it and deservedly got the sack albeit later than he should have,

A club our size has to be in the top league and I just don't see him as the man who can keep us there.

Sentiment and football are not 2 words that go together.

Just out of interest I see you are in Sheffield. I'm not a million miles away from you.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on February 02, 2020, 04:27:03 PM
He’s going to get this season whatever happens. The question is even if we stay up is that he won’t get next if there isn’t significant progression. Because if we do stay there will likely be decent investment again. Sentiment won’t come into next year.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SheffieldVillain on February 02, 2020, 04:32:04 PM
Quote from: Fulford on February 02, 2020, 04:21:15 PM
Quote from: SheffieldVillain on February 02, 2020, 04:12:43 PM
Quote from: Fulford on February 02, 2020, 04:09:23 PM
He gets plenty of slack from the fans as he's one of us. Can you imagine any other manager getting away with the drivel we serve up week in week out.

Nothing do with that in just over one season he has got us promoted and to a cup final then?

And to the second point, yes. Fans were equally patient with Bruce, Lambert and a number of others, with far less in return.

Getting us promoted shouldn't have been difficult given the squad. Yes Bruce made a pigs ear of it and deservedly got the sack albeit later than he should have,

A club our size has to be in the top league and I just don't see him as the man who can keep us there.

Sentiment and football are not 2 words that go together.

Just out of interest I see you are in Sheffield. I'm not a million miles away from you.

Nonsense. We had a squad of aging past-it players and big-money wastes of space. Where are Hutton, Whelan, Adomah now? They were in the first team when he took over. Where are McCormack, Richards, Bree, Hogan? Chester, one of arguably our best players in that squad, has just been picked up by Stoke, and Kodija who was another had no interest whatsoever from other clubs over here. The only thing that was easy with that squad is seeing just how much money had been wasted. Yes, it should have been easy to go up had Bruce and Di Matteo not spunked millions up the wall on shite, but Smith did it with Bruce's excuse for a cobbled-together side.

As to the second, we currently are in a position where we wouldn't be relegated. I can understand people having doubts as to the future, but he is actually as things stand achieving exactly that. Plus a cup final. We aren't bottom of the league and adrift by 20 points as you make it sound.

I'm actually in Latvia currently and live in Poland most of the year, so you're not as close as you think!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on February 02, 2020, 04:35:12 PM
Will people feel differently if we get battered in the Cup Final? Oh, and get relegated?  I think we've wasted a massive opportunity with the dross brought in, in this window. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy65 on February 02, 2020, 04:40:15 PM
Just realised that Bournemouth have gained almost 25% of their points courtesy of us. Could prove important at the end of the season
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Fulford on February 02, 2020, 04:59:43 PM
Quote from: SheffieldVillain on February 02, 2020, 04:32:04 PM
Quote from: Fulford on February 02, 2020, 04:21:15 PM
Quote from: SheffieldVillain on February 02, 2020, 04:12:43 PM
Quote from: Fulford on February 02, 2020, 04:09:23 PM
He gets plenty of slack from the fans as he's one of us. Can you imagine any other manager getting away with the drivel we serve up week in week out.

Nothing do with that in just over one season he has got us promoted and to a cup final then?

And to the second point, yes. Fans were equally patient with Bruce, Lambert and a number of others, with far less in return.

Getting us promoted shouldn't have been difficult given the squad. Yes Bruce made a pigs ear of it and deservedly got the sack albeit later than he should have,

A club our size has to be in the top league and I just don't see him as the man who can keep us there.

Sentiment and football are not 2 words that go together.

Just out of interest I see you are in Sheffield. I'm not a million miles away from you.

Nonsense. We had a squad of aging past-it players and big-money wastes of space. Where are Hutton, Whelan, Adomah now? They were in the first team when he took over. Where are McCormack, Richards, Bree, Hogan? Chester, one of arguably our best players in that squad, has just been picked up by Stoke, and Kodija who was another had no interest whatsoever from other clubs over here. The only thing that was easy with that squad is seeing just how much money had been wasted. Yes, it should have been easy to go up had Bruce and Di Matteo not spunked millions up the wall on shite, but Smith did it with Bruce's excuse for a cobbled-together side.

As to the second, we currently are in a position where we wouldn't be relegated. I can understand people having doubts as to the future, but he is actually as things stand achieving exactly that. Plus a cup final. We aren't bottom of the league and adrift by 20 points as you make it sound.

I'm actually in Latvia currently and live in Poland most of the year, so you're not as close as you think!

Living around here certainly feels like I live near you in Poland.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SheffieldVillain on February 02, 2020, 05:19:40 PM
Quote from: Fulford on February 02, 2020, 04:59:43 PM
Quote from: SheffieldVillain on February 02, 2020, 04:32:04 PM
Quote from: Fulford on February 02, 2020, 04:21:15 PM
Quote from: SheffieldVillain on February 02, 2020, 04:12:43 PM
Quote from: Fulford on February 02, 2020, 04:09:23 PM
He gets plenty of slack from the fans as he's one of us. Can you imagine any other manager getting away with the drivel we serve up week in week out.

Nothing do with that in just over one season he has got us promoted and to a cup final then?

And to the second point, yes. Fans were equally patient with Bruce, Lambert and a number of others, with far less in return.

Getting us promoted shouldn't have been difficult given the squad. Yes Bruce made a pigs ear of it and deservedly got the sack albeit later than he should have,

A club our size has to be in the top league and I just don't see him as the man who can keep us there.

Sentiment and football are not 2 words that go together.

Just out of interest I see you are in Sheffield. I'm not a million miles away from you.

Nonsense. We had a squad of aging past-it players and big-money wastes of space. Where are Hutton, Whelan, Adomah now? They were in the first team when he took over. Where are McCormack, Richards, Bree, Hogan? Chester, one of arguably our best players in that squad, has just been picked up by Stoke, and Kodija who was another had no interest whatsoever from other clubs over here. The only thing that was easy with that squad is seeing just how much money had been wasted. Yes, it should have been easy to go up had Bruce and Di Matteo not spunked millions up the wall on shite, but Smith did it with Bruce's excuse for a cobbled-together side.

As to the second, we currently are in a position where we wouldn't be relegated. I can understand people having doubts as to the future, but he is actually as things stand achieving exactly that. Plus a cup final. We aren't bottom of the league and adrift by 20 points as you make it sound.

I'm actually in Latvia currently and live in Poland most of the year, so you're not as close as you think!

Living around here certainly feels like I live near you in Poland.

Sorry, don't understand.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Big Ming on February 02, 2020, 05:22:42 PM
Quote from: passport1 on February 02, 2020, 11:22:00 AM
That's the point though. We had the opportunity to put a decent balanced squad together . What we got is far from  decent or balanced.
But, if the worst happens,once the 'stars' are sold off for FFP we will still have the basis of a halfway decent Championship squad with parachute money to spend.
And this time they will be our own players and not a stack of loans.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: FatSam on February 02, 2020, 05:31:01 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on February 02, 2020, 02:39:52 PM
But much of it is attitude. We didn't even have a go at Bournemouth. They were first to everything. Our tactic was long ball after long ball from the likes Kortney Hause who thought he was Inesta. That was completely wasteful and just kept giving the ball back to them. I get the consistency of playing staff and manager at Sheff Utd but they also have a defined approach. We should have goone into yesterday's game at minimum on an even footing mentally to Bournemouth. Given our recent win vs Leicester maybe even the more confident of the two sides. It never looked like that in the first half and only did so in the second late on after their red card. That's not just the players, it starts with the message from the manager on how to play.
I think the point about a defined approach is key. I would like us to get to the point where we are a well-oiled machine, with a preferred formation, and at least one alternative that we can switch to, where everyone knows their roles and responsibilities, and displays complete commitment to them. I know Bournemouth have been on a bad run, but they had a very effective plan yesterday, and carried it out diligently. The fact that we have only recently switched to three at the back is only a minor mitigating factor. That said, I think Dean needs and deserves time beyond this season, regardless of whether we stay up, to achieve this with some more sustainable squad building in the summer.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 02, 2020, 05:35:21 PM
How many promoted managers get to start the season with Players the quality of Mings Jack and McGinn ?
Added to that a top class goalkeeper and the nucleus of a Premier League team is there.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on February 02, 2020, 05:43:53 PM
And the fact that one of the most creative midfielders in the PL is being employed as a left winger or wide left midfielder is continuously bewildering.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: walsall villain on February 02, 2020, 05:52:20 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on February 02, 2020, 05:43:53 PM
And the fact that one of the most creative midfielders in the PL is being employed as a left winger or wide left midfielder is continuously bewildering.
From where he is having a tremendous season! Scoring, very creative (so close to two goals yesterday). Can’t agree with you one bit.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on February 02, 2020, 06:06:55 PM
Quote from: walsall villain on February 02, 2020, 05:52:20 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on February 02, 2020, 05:43:53 PM
And the fact that one of the most creative midfielders in the PL is being employed as a left winger or wide left midfielder is continuously bewildering.
From where he is having a tremendous season! Scoring, very creative (so close to two goals yesterday). Can’t agree with you one bit.

That’s all down to him. He’s doing it playing out of position. He’s far more effective in a more central role. He gets trapped out there too often. He’s not a winger.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: walsall villain on February 02, 2020, 06:17:05 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on February 02, 2020, 06:06:55 PM
Quote from: walsall villain on February 02, 2020, 05:52:20 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on February 02, 2020, 05:43:53 PM
And the fact that one of the most creative midfielders in the PL is being employed as a left winger or wide left midfielder is continuously bewildering.
From where he is having a tremendous season! Scoring, very creative (so close to two goals yesterday). Can’t agree with you one bit.

That’s all down to him. He’s doing it playing out of position. He’s far more effective in a more central role. He gets trapped out there too often. He’s not a winger.
He’s hardly been glued to the touch line. Don’t think he’s getting trapped out wide at all. He drifts inside all the time, he’s always involved (and drawing more fouls than any other players). Very intelligent and in the form of his life.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: RamboandBruno on February 02, 2020, 06:35:38 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on February 02, 2020, 06:06:55 PM
Quote from: walsall villain on February 02, 2020, 05:52:20 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on February 02, 2020, 05:43:53 PM
And the fact that one of the most creative midfielders in the PL is being employed as a left winger or wide left midfielder is continuously bewildering.
From where he is having a tremendous season! Scoring, very creative (so close to two goals yesterday). Can’t agree with you one bit.

That’s all down to him. He’s doing it playing out of position. He’s far more effective in a more central role. He gets trapped out there too often. He’s not a winger.

I doubt whether Smith ideally wants to play Jack on the wing, he’s playing there because the other wingers have been inconsistent. As has been well said numerous times on many threads, for most of this team it’s their first time playing in the premier league and additionally their first time playing together. If we stay up some of them may turn into really good consistent players for us, Konsa, Luiz, Guilbert, Targett, whilst others may inevitably fall by the way side, Trez maybe?

Overall, longest winning run in our history, promotion at Wembley, getting to a cup final and still with a very good chance of staying up with the above untried players, is a pretty good 14 month CV and says to me that Smith does have nous and can motivate the team.

I’ve said on a different thread, we might need to look at games in blocks of 4 or 5 now, from the last 5 league games we’ve had 2 wins & a draw, if we get that from the next 5 and the next 5 after that we should be ok...just
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 02, 2020, 06:40:52 PM
No chance of two wins and a draw from the next 5 in my opinion, some hard games in that run.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 02, 2020, 06:50:09 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 02, 2020, 06:40:52 PM
No chance of two wins and a draw from the next 5 in my opinion, some hard games in that run.
Spurs Sheffield Utd Citeh Leicester Southampton,.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: RamboandBruno on February 02, 2020, 06:51:09 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 02, 2020, 06:40:52 PM
No chance of two wins and a draw from the next 5 in my opinion, some hard games in that run.

Indeed they look tough, but Watford were 7 games unbeaten when we played them and we’ve just turned over Leicester albeit in the cup, still their first team though. If we can’t raise our game then we will be done for, let’s hope we can.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: RamboandBruno on February 02, 2020, 06:52:36 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 02, 2020, 06:50:09 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 02, 2020, 06:40:52 PM
No chance of two wins and a draw from the next 5 in my opinion, some hard games in that run.
Spurs Sheffield Utd Citeh Leicester Southampton,.

City’s in the cup final, I just meant the league, though I think the 5th could be Liverpool 😱
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 02, 2020, 07:02:24 PM
We will do well not to lose at least 3 of those, 2 draws and a win will set us up for the next run of easy games Chelsea Wolves Newcastle Liverpool Man utd.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 02, 2020, 07:03:57 PM
Quote from: RamboandBruno on February 02, 2020, 06:52:36 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 02, 2020, 06:50:09 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 02, 2020, 06:40:52 PM
No chance of two wins and a draw from the next 5 in my opinion, some hard games in that run.
Spurs Sheffield Utd Citeh Leicester Southampton,.

City’s in the cup final, I just meant the league, though I think the 5th could be Liverpool 😱
Yes sorry the 5th is Chelsea .
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on February 02, 2020, 07:06:54 PM
Not feeling good about that run at all. Yesterday was the game we needed to win and we blew it. We’ve actually done ok against relegation rivals overall, but we gave Southampton a massive boost when we made them look like Real Madrid and it’s probably the 6 points we’ve gifted Bournemouth that will do for us I suspect as I can see them finishing 17th and us 18th.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: RamboandBruno on February 02, 2020, 07:13:58 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 02, 2020, 07:02:24 PM
We will do well not to lose at least 3 of those, 2 draws and a win will set us up for the next run of easy games Chelsea Wolves Newcastle Liverpool Man utd.

Just looked at all the fixtures remaining for all those in the mix, we have got a tough run and we will have to raise our game on 2 or 3 occasions, but out of all those games I see no reason to fear newcastle, apart from ourselves their the worst side I’ve seen this season.

Anyway, as well as our tough run, West Ham and Brighton’s run ins, look pretty horrendous. Despite it being tight down there I really don’t see it going to 40 points. I don’t normally do predictions or gamble as I invarioubly lose, but Brighton and West Ham may do well to get to 33/34 points. Equally being conservative and taking my biased hat off we might do well to get to 35/36, but that could be enough.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Luke8 on February 02, 2020, 07:39:06 PM
How anyone can make confident predictions about us getting/not getting any amount of points I don’t know. We are so infuriatingly inconsistent, as the last two performances have shown.

We are absolutely capable of getting seven points from the next five games, yet at the same time equally capable of only managing two or three.

And that’s equally true of most of the teams in the whole of the bottom half.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: RamboandBruno on February 02, 2020, 07:50:11 PM
Quote from: Luke8 on February 02, 2020, 07:39:06 PM
How anyone can make confident predictions about us getting/not getting any amount of points I don’t know. We are so infuriatingly inconsistent, as the last two performances have shown.

We are absolutely capable of getting seven points from the next five games, yet at the same time equally capable of only managing two or three.

And that’s equally true of most of the teams in the whole of the bottom half.

Predictions....not confident predictions! 😬 think making predictions on points isn’t much different to most of the conversations on various threads discussing our imminent relegation or otherwise
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Luke8 on February 02, 2020, 08:17:35 PM
Quote from: RamboandBruno on February 02, 2020, 07:50:11 PM
Quote from: Luke8 on February 02, 2020, 07:39:06 PM
How anyone can make confident predictions about us getting/not getting any amount of points I don’t know. We are so infuriatingly inconsistent, as the last two performances have shown.

We are absolutely capable of getting seven points from the next five games, yet at the same time equally capable of only managing two or three.

And that’s equally true of most of the teams in the whole of the bottom half.

Predictions....not confident predictions! 😬 think making predictions on points isn’t much different to most of the conversations on various threads discussing our imminent relegation or otherwise

Oh, I get that. And it would be a boring thread/forum if people couldn’t or didn’t discuss that.

Was just making a more broad point about our inconsistency in terms of both results and, more so, our performances really. The Liverpool game apart, looking at them individually, I genuinely believe we can win any of our remaining fixtures, yet I won’t really be surprised at any of the ones we inevitably lose. We are one of several weird teams like that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on February 02, 2020, 09:26:05 PM
Quote from: Luke8 on February 02, 2020, 07:39:06 PM
How anyone can make confident predictions about us getting/not getting any amount of points I don’t know. We are so infuriatingly inconsistent, as the last two performances have shown.

We are absolutely capable of getting seven points from the next five games, yet at the same time equally capable of only managing two or three.

And that’s equally true of most of the teams in the whole of the bottom half.

Yeah, but the problem is we are way, way more likely to get the two or three than the seven, as our position in the table shows. That's the problem.

Given that, it's pretty easy to make a confident prediction.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Luke8 on February 02, 2020, 09:42:05 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on February 02, 2020, 09:26:05 PM
Quote from: Luke8 on February 02, 2020, 07:39:06 PM
How anyone can make confident predictions about us getting/not getting any amount of points I don’t know. We are so infuriatingly inconsistent, as the last two performances have shown.

We are absolutely capable of getting seven points from the next five games, yet at the same time equally capable of only managing two or three.

And that’s equally true of most of the teams in the whole of the bottom half.

Yeah, but the problem is we are way, way more likely to get the two or three than the seven, as our position in the table shows. That's the problem.

Given that, it's pretty easy to make a confident prediction.

That’s also true of at least five other teams, yet there seems to be at least one unlikely/surprise result each week.

You could also make the argument that our points total in the table shows we are fairly likely to get five points from them given that’s what we are averaging across the season currently.

More pertinently, I think you have to look at us a little more in isolation since the change in formation and our results and performances have generally been improved in the seven games since then. However, we are clearly struggling with consistency as we have also had two (and a half vs. Brighton) pretty poor performances within that period.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 02, 2020, 09:44:50 PM
The problem is that we don’t have any home games against bottom of the table teams left and we have been terrible away.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: itmustbe_it is! on February 02, 2020, 09:57:23 PM
Southampton A , Spurs H and Sheff U home are massive.

5 points ?  Zero from Leicester A and Chelsea H

Then Newcastle A is winnable, before we get Wolves, Man U and Liverpool - 1 point from those 3.

Then the run in is not so daunting , we can pick points up last 4 games - Palace and Arsenal H, Everton A, before all to play off at West Ham on the last day.

All conjecture I know, but like breaking it down into chunks of games. Going to be tight but I think we'll be ok.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: walsall villain on February 02, 2020, 10:02:40 PM
We need 4 wins....
Can only see us getting 1 from the 6 away games, perhaps Newcastle.
That leaves 3 from the 7 home games. Perhaps Palace, either Wolves or Sheffield then I’m hoping of one from the 4 we never beat (Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea or United).
I’m not very confident to be honest. It’s been a dramatic 12 months so perhaps it will all be decided on the last day at West Ham?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: RamboandBruno on February 02, 2020, 10:06:50 PM
Quote from: Luke8 on February 02, 2020, 08:17:35 PM
Quote from: RamboandBruno on February 02, 2020, 07:50:11 PM
Quote from: Luke8 on February 02, 2020, 07:39:06 PM
How anyone can make confident predictions about us getting/not getting any amount of points I don’t know. We are so infuriatingly inconsistent, as the last two performances have shown.

We are absolutely capable of getting seven points from the next five games, yet at the same time equally capable of only managing two or three.

And that’s equally true of most of the teams in the whole of the bottom half.

Predictions....not confident predictions! 😬 think making predictions on points isn’t much different to most of the conversations on various threads discussing our imminent relegation or otherwise

Oh, I get that. And it would be a boring thread/forum if people couldn’t or didn’t discuss that.

Was just making a more broad point about our inconsistency in terms of both results and, more so, our performances really. The Liverpool game apart, looking at them individually, I genuinely believe we can win any of our remaining fixtures, yet I won’t really be surprised at any of the ones we inevitably lose. We are one of several weird teams like that.

Yea thats fair enough and I think your right, in that there aren’t many games I’ve gone to where I’ve thought we’re defo going to lose, Man City home and away apart. Virtually every games been a bit, could go either way....not good for the nerves. We’ll need 3 or 4 more Leicester (in the cup) performances to see us through
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ROBBO on February 02, 2020, 10:12:36 PM
You have more confidence than me after the poor effort in a six pointer game.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Luke8 on February 02, 2020, 10:26:34 PM
Quote from: ROBBO on February 02, 2020, 10:12:36 PM
You have more confidence than me after the poor effort in a six pointer game.

That’s taking one game in isolation though.

We won a ‘six pointer’ literally the game before yesterday.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: RamboandBruno on February 03, 2020, 07:03:45 AM
Quote from: ROBBO on February 02, 2020, 10:12:36 PM
You have more confidence than me after the poor effort in a six pointer game.

Not particularly confident, hopeful. Also take it as it comes, it was great beating Watford with a good performance and last minute winner, but once the dust had settled the next day we were still 5th bottom, a couple points of it. In the flip side, whilst Bournemouth is one of the ones we’d target to win, we’ve lost and we’re still out of the bottom 3, so it’s a bit shite but not end of the world. There’s twists and turns and nothing’s a done deal, I think West Ham look likely but they could turn round and beat Man City...unlikely. Likewise we could turn round and beat spurs or southampton
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Demitri_C on February 03, 2020, 09:13:42 AM
He needs to improve this piss poor away record and make us more competitive against the better sides. These are two major problems under him. Barring ubited we have zero points against any of the top six.

Smith has one of the most woeful records against ten men for us. Lost against arsenal, bournmouth, watford and only managed a draw at home to west ham.  4 games vs ten men and 1 point. Pathetic when yoh think about it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 03, 2020, 10:16:20 AM
It's really surprised me, in a bad way, just how bad we've been defensively this year.  I think this is mostly down to the lack of cover from our midfield, which tends to get overrun in most matches.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on February 03, 2020, 10:27:30 AM
Quote from: Risso on February 03, 2020, 10:16:20 AM
It's really surprised me, in a bad way, just how bad we've been defensively this year.  I think this is mostly down to the lack of cover from our midfield, which tends to get overrun in most matches.

That's exactly what it is. As poor as they are sometimes at playing it out from the back, I don't think our back 3 are bad defenders. Even Hause who takes some flack here has very good heading stats, Mings is obviously a pretty dominant centre-half and Konsa........ well, jury's out on Konsa tbh.

But the midfield is the bigger problem for sure - we do not have a box to box type player who can buy us distance and progress when he gets on the ball. We've regressed to having interchangeable anonymous midfielders who do nothing terribly well. A bit like when we had the likes of Westwood, Bacuna and El Ahmadi playing together in midfield. It was very hard to identify what their distinct roles were. Likewise with Luiz and Nakamba, where the prevailing trait seems to be an inability to retain possession or find a teammate with even the simplest of passes. They in turn are exposed by the likes of El Ghazi not doing much work to track back/cover or provide an option for an easy pass when we have the ball. In essence there's a total lack of dynamism across the entire team (with the obvious exception of Grealish who covers a lot of ground), and a real disconnect between the different areas of the pitch.

I've asked a lot of times recently who's coaching our midfield and what sort of drills they're being taken through, because to look at some of our recent performances, you'd be forgiven for assuming there's very little being done there.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Demitri_C on February 03, 2020, 11:25:50 AM
Quote from: Risso on February 03, 2020, 10:16:20 AM
It's really surprised me, in a bad way, just how bad we've been defensively this year.  I think this is mostly down to the lack of cover from our midfield, which tends to get overrun in most matches.

Good point mate. I just think luiz and nakamba as cms together doesnt work. I think you can only play one and i think it has ti be nakamba.

Unless he rrverts to two at the back and puts either conor/lansbury/drinkwater with luiz and nakamba
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on February 03, 2020, 11:52:02 AM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 03, 2020, 11:25:50 AM
Quote from: Risso on February 03, 2020, 10:16:20 AM
It's really surprised me, in a bad way, just how bad we've been defensively this year.  I think this is mostly down to the lack of cover from our midfield, which tends to get overrun in most matches.

Good point mate. I just think luiz and nakamba as cms together doesnt work. I think you can only play one and i think it has ti be nakamba.

Unless he rrverts to two at the back and puts either conor/lansbury/drinkwater with luiz and nakamba

Didn't work against Leicester did it?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 03, 2020, 11:55:34 AM
Quote from: Drummond on February 03, 2020, 11:52:02 AM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 03, 2020, 11:25:50 AM
Quote from: Risso on February 03, 2020, 10:16:20 AM
It's really surprised me, in a bad way, just how bad we've been defensively this year.  I think this is mostly down to the lack of cover from our midfield, which tends to get overrun in most matches.

Good point mate. I just think luiz and nakamba as cms together doesnt work. I think you can only play one and i think it has ti be nakamba.

Unless he rrverts to two at the back and puts either conor/lansbury/drinkwater with luiz and nakamba

Didn't work against Leicester did it?

The league game against Leicester it certainly didn't! ;)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on February 03, 2020, 12:06:44 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 03, 2020, 11:55:34 AM
Quote from: Drummond on February 03, 2020, 11:52:02 AM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 03, 2020, 11:25:50 AM
Quote from: Risso on February 03, 2020, 10:16:20 AM
It's really surprised me, in a bad way, just how bad we've been defensively this year.  I think this is mostly down to the lack of cover from our midfield, which tends to get overrun in most matches.

Good point mate. I just think luiz and nakamba as cms together doesnt work. I think you can only play one and i think it has ti be nakamba.

Unless he rrverts to two at the back and puts either conor/lansbury/drinkwater with luiz and nakamba

Didn't work against Leicester did it?

The league game against Leicester it certainly didn't! ;)

True, in a 4-3-3.... With McGinn, must be his fault. ;)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on February 03, 2020, 12:07:04 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 03, 2020, 11:52:02 AM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 03, 2020, 11:25:50 AM
Quote from: Risso on February 03, 2020, 10:16:20 AM
It's really surprised me, in a bad way, just how bad we've been defensively this year.  I think this is mostly down to the lack of cover from our midfield, which tends to get overrun in most matches.

Good point mate. I just think luiz and nakamba as cms together doesnt work. I think you can only play one and i think it has ti be nakamba.

Unless he rrverts to two at the back and puts either conor/lansbury/drinkwater with luiz and nakamba

Didn't work against Leicester did it?

Well we've lost more games than anyone else bar Norwich and conceded more goals than anyone else so holding up a cup game as a sign that it works goes in the face of the overwhelming evidence that really it doesn't particularly work, does it?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on February 03, 2020, 12:10:23 PM
Quote from: aj2k77 on February 03, 2020, 12:07:04 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 03, 2020, 11:52:02 AM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 03, 2020, 11:25:50 AM
Quote from: Risso on February 03, 2020, 10:16:20 AM
It's really surprised me, in a bad way, just how bad we've been defensively this year.  I think this is mostly down to the lack of cover from our midfield, which tends to get overrun in most matches.

Good point mate. I just think luiz and nakamba as cms together doesnt work. I think you can only play one and i think it has ti be nakamba.

Unless he rrverts to two at the back and puts either conor/lansbury/drinkwater with luiz and nakamba

Didn't work against Leicester did it?

Well we've lost more games than anyone else bar Norwich and conceded more goals than anyone else so holding up a cup game as a sign that it works goes in the face of the overwhelming evidence that really it doesn't particularly work, does it?

Well bringing up results from matches that they didn't even play together in as a way of proving your point doesn't really hold much water does it?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 03, 2020, 12:22:51 PM
The midfield has been a problem all season and is the main reason we allow the opposition more chances than any one else.
The switch from 4 3 3 to 3 4 3 has not addressed this.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Marlon From Bearwood on February 03, 2020, 12:41:23 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 03, 2020, 12:22:51 PM
The midfield has been a problem all season and is the main reason we allow the opposition more chances than any one else.
The switch from 4 3 3 to 3 4 3 has not addressed this.


I think 352 would work much better than the current 343.

It would mean we could play 2 out and out strikers,  get Jack back in the middle where he’s most effective and stop relying on El Ghazi and Trez who are nowhere near consistent enough anyway.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Luke8 on February 03, 2020, 01:58:56 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 03, 2020, 12:22:51 PM
The midfield has been a problem all season and is the main reason we allow the opposition more chances than any one else.
The switch from 4 3 3 to 3 4 3 has not addressed this.


I think it has to an extent. I reckon even if you include the Man City game (which looks a bit of an aberration) the number of shots we are conceding have gone down compared to when we were playing 4-3-3. Certainly the number of good/clear chances we were giving away.
 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on February 03, 2020, 02:09:25 PM
Quote from: Marlon From Bearwood on February 03, 2020, 12:41:23 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 03, 2020, 12:22:51 PM
The midfield has been a problem all season and is the main reason we allow the opposition more chances than any one else.
The switch from 4 3 3 to 3 4 3 has not addressed this.


I think 352 would work much better than the current 343.

It would mean we could play 2 out and out strikers,  get Jack back in the middle where he’s most effective and stop relying on El Ghazi and Trez who are nowhere near consistent enough anyway.
Our midfield is already getting over run, don't you think this would leave them over exposed?  Also, with Jack in the middle and no ElGhazi, do you think our fullbacks are strong enough to provide the width without their support?  I wouldn't have thought so to be honest.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on February 03, 2020, 02:39:07 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 03, 2020, 12:10:23 PM
Quote from: aj2k77 on February 03, 2020, 12:07:04 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 03, 2020, 11:52:02 AM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 03, 2020, 11:25:50 AM
Quote from: Risso on February 03, 2020, 10:16:20 AM
It's really surprised me, in a bad way, just how bad we've been defensively this year.  I think this is mostly down to the lack of cover from our midfield, which tends to get overrun in most matches.

Good point mate. I just think luiz and nakamba as cms together doesnt work. I think you can only play one and i think it has ti be nakamba.

Unless he rrverts to two at the back and puts either conor/lansbury/drinkwater with luiz and nakamba

Didn't work against Leicester did it?

Well we've lost more games than anyone else bar Norwich and conceded more goals than anyone else so holding up a cup game as a sign that it works goes in the face of the overwhelming evidence that really it doesn't particularly work, does it?

Well bringing up results from matches that they didn't even play together in as a way of proving your point doesn't really hold much water does it?

Well they've started 8 league matches together and we've lost 6 of them, if that helps.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Luke8 on February 03, 2020, 03:32:03 PM
Or another way of looking at it is the results with Nakamba and Luiz as the central midfielders in our 3-4-3:

Burnley - Won 2-1
Leicester - Drew 1-1
Brighton - Won 1-0 (from 70 minutes)
Watford - Won 2-0 (from 55 minutes)
Leicester - Won 2-1
Bournemouth - Lost 1-2

Both are pretty simplistic, lacking enough context, ways of looking at it but I think it would suggest that while they are probably not the definitive solution, it may be one of the better options we have currently.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on February 03, 2020, 04:12:11 PM
Our midfield is Larry lightweight. I’m amazed our coaching staff don’t see it, don’t acknowledge it and worst of all, completely failed to address it in the transfer window.  Well, other than bringing in Danny Drinkwater.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Demitri_C on February 03, 2020, 04:52:32 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 03, 2020, 11:52:02 AM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 03, 2020, 11:25:50 AM
Quote from: Risso on February 03, 2020, 10:16:20 AM
It's really surprised me, in a bad way, just how bad we've been defensively this year.  I think this is mostly down to the lack of cover from our midfield, which tends to get overrun in most matches.

Good point mate. I just think luiz and nakamba as cms together doesnt work. I think you can only play one and i think it has ti be nakamba.

Unless he rrverts to two at the back and puts either conor/lansbury/drinkwater with luiz and nakamba

Didn't work against Leicester did it?

Oh you mean the game that nyland saved us on? Worked fanstaically well in a more important game on Saturday didnt it?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on February 03, 2020, 04:59:31 PM
Quote from: aj2k77 on February 03, 2020, 02:39:07 PM

Well they've started 8 league matches together and we've lost 6 of them, if that helps.

Pretty sure it's 7 in the league, won 2 lost 5. Plus both legs of the semi. However the league games do include games against the top 3 and Wolves away.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on February 03, 2020, 04:59:58 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 03, 2020, 04:52:32 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 03, 2020, 11:52:02 AM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 03, 2020, 11:25:50 AM
Quote from: Risso on February 03, 2020, 10:16:20 AM
It's really surprised me, in a bad way, just how bad we've been defensively this year.  I think this is mostly down to the lack of cover from our midfield, which tends to get overrun in most matches.

Good point mate. I just think luiz and nakamba as cms together doesnt work. I think you can only play one and i think it has ti be nakamba.

Unless he rrverts to two at the back and puts either conor/lansbury/drinkwater with luiz and nakamba

Didn't work against Leicester did it?

Oh you mean the game that nyland saved us on? Worked fanstaically well in a more important game on Saturday didnt it?

You mean the goalkeeper did his job?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on February 16, 2020, 07:24:55 PM
Nice bloke, Villa fan, did well to get us promoted last season ........ but I am disappointed that we are still making the same stupid mistakes now than those earlier in the season .....ok it's the players screwing up but Smith and his coaches should be ironing these problems out - we aren't down but I really seeing us struggle from here on in,  principally as we can't keep a clean sheet or defend a lead - this league is unrelenting and having a tight well drilled defence is the key to survival
I appreciate that the club had to completely rebuild, squad wise but I think we were a little naive expecting Smith to be the manager to keep us where he had got us,against the odds - he may still do it and I would be happy to eat humble pie but it's starting to look a tall order -  we need a run of results like we hit last season, but it has to come against the likes of Chelsea, Arsenal and the Mersey duo ....... I just can't see it happening
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Demitri_C on February 16, 2020, 07:28:09 PM
I think he will get the sack come the summer if we go down.

 Its hard to justify him staying on spending 150m and relegating us. I think we look a lot wrse than we did last year tbh
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: GordonCowansisthegreatest on February 16, 2020, 07:40:13 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 16, 2020, 07:28:09 PM
I think he will get the sack come the summer if we go down.

 Its hard to justify him staying on spending 150m and relegating us. I think we look a lot wrse than we did last year tbh
Be interested to know which game you were watching today??
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on February 16, 2020, 08:02:17 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on February 16, 2020, 07:24:55 PM
Nice bloke, Villa fan, did well to get us promoted last season ........ but I am disappointed that we are still making the same stupid mistakes now than those earlier in the season .....ok it's the players screwing up but Smith and his coaches should be ironing these problems out - we aren't down but I really seeing us struggle from here on in,  principally as we can't keep a clean sheet or defend a lead - this league is unrelenting and having a tight well drilled defence is the key to survival
I appreciate that the club had to completely rebuild, squad wise but I think we were a little naive expecting Smith to be the manager to keep us where he had got us,against the odds - he may still do it and I would be happy to eat humble pie but it's starting to look a tall order -  we need a run of results like we hit last season, but it has to come against the likes of Chelsea, Arsenal and the Mersey duo ....... I just can't see it happening

I know, it’s so frustrating
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Demitri_C on February 16, 2020, 08:22:23 PM
Quote from: GordonCowansisthegreatest on February 16, 2020, 07:40:13 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 16, 2020, 07:28:09 PM
I think he will get the sack come the summer if we go down.

 Its hard to justify him staying on spending 150m and relegating us. I think we look a lot wrse than we did last year tbh
Be interested to know which game you were watching today??

Sorry i didnt word that properly i meant tk aay defensively.

There is no question we are a lof worse this year. The defending today as a lot of games this year has been a complete an dutter shambles
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OzVilla on February 16, 2020, 08:41:01 PM
You can’t compare this year to last year for fairly obvious reasons.

I have my doubts about Smith but actually think if we go down he’ll be kept for the promotion push and if we stay up it’s not a certainty the board would stick with him if it’s a tight finish.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Smithy on February 16, 2020, 08:42:28 PM
This time last year we lost 2-0 at Fulham before getting a point at home to Preston (who had over 20 shots against us).  We ARE a better side than last year, we're just playing teams of a much MUCH higher quality.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on February 16, 2020, 08:45:59 PM
Quote from: Smithy on February 16, 2020, 08:42:28 PM
This time last year we lost 2-0 at Fulham before getting a point at home to Preston (who had over 20 shots against us).  We ARE a better side than last year, we're just playing teams of a much MUCH higher quality.

Wrong season, that was 17/18!

This time last year we were coming to the end of a 2 win in 13 game run after losing a game at home 3-2 with the winner coming in the 94th minute after a defensive blunder.....

Have to hope history won't repeat iself.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on February 16, 2020, 08:51:21 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on February 16, 2020, 08:45:59 PM
Quote from: Smithy on February 16, 2020, 08:42:28 PM
This time last year we lost 2-0 at Fulham before getting a point at home to Preston (who had over 20 shots against us).  We ARE a better side than last year, we're just playing teams of a much MUCH higher quality.

Wrong season, that was 17/18!

This time last year we were coming to the end of a 2 win in 13 game run after losing a game at home 3-2 with the winner coming in the 94th minute after a defensive blunder.....

Have to hope history won't repeat iself.

This time last year we'd just lost 2-0 at home to Albion. I hope history does repeat itself.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on February 16, 2020, 09:00:41 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on February 16, 2020, 08:51:21 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on February 16, 2020, 08:45:59 PM
Quote from: Smithy on February 16, 2020, 08:42:28 PM
This time last year we lost 2-0 at Fulham before getting a point at home to Preston (who had over 20 shots against us).  We ARE a better side than last year, we're just playing teams of a much MUCH higher quality.

Wrong season, that was 17/18!

This time last year we were coming to the end of a 2 win in 13 game run after losing a game at home 3-2 with the winner coming in the 94th minute after a defensive blunder.....

Have to hope history won't repeat iself.

This time last year we'd just lost 2-0 at home to Albion. I hope history does repeat itself.

It worked out well in the end but ultimately losing to Leeds last minute heralded a near three month winless run where we were awful in most of those games. We simply can't afford that same sort of feeling sorry for ourselves feeling but a few of our players looked broken at the end so not hopeful as this club hasn't recovered well from setbacks over the last decade.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on February 16, 2020, 09:04:14 PM
We had a run after the Leeds game of W2 D5 L1.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 16, 2020, 09:19:35 PM
Horribly defeatist comments from Smith in his BBC WM interview.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 16, 2020, 09:31:29 PM
His substitutions made us worse again.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on February 16, 2020, 09:38:56 PM
His subs made sense to me, most wanted Drinkwater off for Nakamaba, AEG was subbed because of the whack he took so he was replaced with like for like considering we were creating a fair bit, and Samatta is most likely not match fit so subbed him for another striker. You could say he could have gone more defensive when subbing Samatta but if that hadn't worked and Spurs scored he'd have been absolutely slaughtered for leaving us with no strikers on the pitch at home.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 16, 2020, 09:40:32 PM
God knows why he took Samatta off. He was giving them something to think about, then that Swansea reserve comes on and touches it once as heads the ball back into our own area and that was about it. Trezeguet was his usual rubbish self as well.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: London Villan on February 16, 2020, 09:44:08 PM
Add AEG to that who had a physical presence up there too. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Demitri_C on February 16, 2020, 09:46:08 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 16, 2020, 09:40:32 PM
God knows why he took Samatta off. He was giving them something to think about, then that Swansea reserve comes on and touches it once as heads the ball back into our own area and that was about it. Trezeguet was his usual rubbish self as well.

I agree. Baston looked really poor and almost gifted spurs a goal. Offered nothing, y strange sub.

His moaning about var was stupid. He should be dealing with these amateur defensive errors that are costing us most weeks.

Quote from: OzVilla on February 16, 2020, 08:41:01 PM
You can’t compare this year to last year for fairly obvious reasons.

I have my doubts about Smith but actually think if we go down he’ll be kept for the promotion push and if we stay up it’s not a certainty the board would stick with him if it’s a tight finish.

You think? I can’t see them sacking him if we stay up. It will be a huge gamble to stick with smith if we go down. I also am worried about what type of players he would go for after the shit signings of baston drink water and Wesley
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on February 16, 2020, 09:49:10 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 16, 2020, 09:46:08 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 16, 2020, 09:40:32 PM
God knows why he took Samatta off. He was giving them something to think about, then that Swansea reserve comes on and touches it once as heads the ball back into our own area and that was about it. Trezeguet was his usual rubbish self as well.

I agree. Baston looked really poor and almost gifted spurs a goal. Offered nothing, y strange sub.

His moaning about var was stupid. He should be dealing with these amateur defensive errors that are costing us most weeks.

Quote from: OzVilla on February 16, 2020, 08:41:01 PM
You can’t compare this year to last year for fairly obvious reasons.

I have my doubts about Smith but actually think if we go down he’ll be kept for the promotion push and if we stay up it’s not a certainty the board would stick with him if it’s a tight finish.

You think? I can’t see them sacking him if we stay up. It will be a huge gamble to stick with smith if we go down. I also am worried about what type of players he would go for after the shit signings of baston drink water and Wesley

Maybe he'll sign shit players like Mings, Samatta, Guilbert and Heaton.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AVH87 on February 16, 2020, 09:53:22 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 16, 2020, 09:46:08 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 16, 2020, 09:40:32 PM
God knows why he took Samatta off. He was giving them something to think about, then that Swansea reserve comes on and touches it once as heads the ball back into our own area and that was about it. Trezeguet was his usual rubbish self as well.

I agree. Baston looked really poor and almost gifted spurs a goal. Offered nothing, y strange sub.

His moaning about var was stupid. He should be dealing with these amateur defensive errors that are costing us most weeks.

Quote from: OzVilla on February 16, 2020, 08:41:01 PM
You can’t compare this year to last year for fairly obvious reasons.

I have my doubts about Smith but actually think if we go down he’ll be kept for the promotion push and if we stay up it’s not a certainty the board would stick with him if it’s a tight finish.

You think? I can’t see them sacking him if we stay up. It will be a huge gamble to stick with smith if we go down. I also am worried about what type of players he would go for after the shit signings of baston drink water and Wesley

Jesus, Baston has played five minutes of football and is a shit signing? He was also on a free as we clearly didn't have more funds after splashing out on Samatta and before that Wesley in the CF position.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: itbrvilla on February 17, 2020, 07:06:30 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 16, 2020, 09:31:29 PM
His substitutions made us worse again.
He certainly has a habit of this since we've been promoted
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on February 17, 2020, 07:18:00 AM
I didn't have too much of an issue with his subs yesterday.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Demitri_C on February 17, 2020, 08:18:15 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on February 16, 2020, 09:49:10 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 16, 2020, 09:46:08 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 16, 2020, 09:40:32 PM
God knows why he took Samatta off. He was giving them something to think about, then that Swansea reserve comes on and touches it once as heads the ball back into our own area and that was about it. Trezeguet was his usual rubbish self as well.

I agree. Baston looked really poor and almost gifted spurs a goal. Offered nothing, y strange sub.

His moaning about var was stupid. He should be dealing with these amateur defensive errors that are costing us most weeks.

Quote from: OzVilla on February 16, 2020, 08:41:01 PM
You can’t compare this year to last year for fairly obvious reasons.

I have my doubts about Smith but actually think if we go down he’ll be kept for the promotion push and if we stay up it’s not a certainty the board would stick with him if it’s a tight finish.

You think? I can’t see them sacking him if we stay up. It will be a huge gamble to stick with smith if we go down. I also am worried about what type of players he would go for after the shit signings of baston drink water and Wesley

Maybe he'll sign shit players like Mings, Samatta, Guilbert and Heaton.

Or superb players like wesley drinkwater el ghazi trezeguet jota kalinic and hause.
Quote from: AVH87 on February 16, 2020, 09:53:22 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 16, 2020, 09:46:08 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 16, 2020, 09:40:32 PM
God knows why he took Samatta off. He was giving them something to think about, then that Swansea reserve comes on and touches it once as heads the ball back into our own area and that was about it. Trezeguet was his usual rubbish self as well.

I agree. Baston looked really poor and almost gifted spurs a goal. Offered nothing, y strange sub.

His moaning about var was stupid. He should be dealing with these amateur defensive errors that are costing us most weeks.

Quote from: OzVilla on February 16, 2020, 08:41:01 PM
You can’t compare this year to last year for fairly obvious reasons.

I have my doubts about Smith but actually think if we go down he’ll be kept for the promotion push and if we stay up it’s not a certainty the board would stick with him if it’s a tight finish.

You think? I can’t see them sacking him if we stay up. It will be a huge gamble to stick with smith if we go down. I also am worried about what type of players he would go for after the shit signings of baston drink water and Wesley

Jesus, Baston has played five minutes of football and is a shit signing? He was also on a free as we clearly didn't have more funds after splashing out on Samatta and before that Wesley in the CF position.

He looked utter shit yesterday.  His only contribution was almost gifting them a goal. Complete panic buy
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 17, 2020, 08:23:01 AM
5 minutes isn't enough time to pass any sort of considered comment on a player.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 17, 2020, 09:12:40 AM
Why swap the Centre forward for 5 minutes, he did it against Liverpool aswell.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on February 17, 2020, 09:14:31 AM
He's had a poor season. Hasn't proven that he's good enough at this level and with the kind of backing behind us he would be lucky to keep his job even should we stay up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on February 17, 2020, 09:17:25 AM
AEG was having a stormer and Samatta didn't need subbing yesterday.

Smith's biggest mistake is in not bringing in a proper defence coach - this is what will cause our demise, not his substitutions.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 17, 2020, 09:33:41 AM
Quote from: Mister E on February 17, 2020, 09:17:25 AM
AEG was having a stormer and Samatta didn't need subbing yesterday.

Smith's biggest mistake is in not bringing in a proper defence coach - this is what will cause our demise, not his substitutions.
Please explain what is needed to be defensively coached.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on February 17, 2020, 09:34:44 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 17, 2020, 09:33:41 AM
Quote from: Mister E on February 17, 2020, 09:17:25 AM
AEG was having a stormer and Samatta didn't need subbing yesterday.

Smith's biggest mistake is in not bringing in a proper defence coach - this is what will cause our demise, not his substitutions.
Please explain what is needed to be defensively coached.
And then email to Villa Park.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on February 17, 2020, 09:42:33 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 17, 2020, 09:12:40 AM
Why swap the Centre forward for 5 minutes, he did it against Liverpool aswell.

I think he did it as a 'lump it up' option to try and nick a goal in the last few minutes.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Demitri_C on February 17, 2020, 09:43:33 AM
Quote from: Ads on February 17, 2020, 08:23:01 AM
5 minutes isn't enough time to pass any sort of considered comment on a player.

Its not but if i wss a bettjng man this we wilm be as successful as tom carrols move here
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 17, 2020, 09:59:27 AM
You can't judge him on a few minutes, but you could see that he's no pace, and we looked distinctly worse when Samatta went off.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Demitri_C on February 17, 2020, 12:21:28 PM
Another point on smith why the helm did he puss so many peope foraard at such a vital stage of the game?? Jesus there is no way with 90 seconds left we should only havetwo have players back.

His naive and quite frankly idiotic decisions at times are costing us points. A point and a gaol goal conceded could be vital come end of season
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on February 17, 2020, 12:42:08 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 17, 2020, 12:21:28 PM
Another point on smith why the helm did he puss so many peope foraard at such a vital stage of the game?? Jesus there is no way with 90 seconds left we should only havetwo have players back.

His naive and quite frankly idiotic decisions at times are costing us points. A point and a gaol goal conceded could be vital come end of season


Watford.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Smithy on February 17, 2020, 12:44:45 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on February 17, 2020, 12:42:08 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 17, 2020, 12:21:28 PM
Another point on smith why the helm did he puss so many peope foraard at such a vital stage of the game?? Jesus there is no way with 90 seconds left we should only havetwo have players back.

His naive and quite frankly idiotic decisions at times are costing us points. A point and a gaol goal conceded could be vital come end of season


Watford.


And Brighton. Where a defender scored the winner in the 94th minute, when perhaps he should have been in his own half securing the point?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on February 17, 2020, 01:00:46 PM
Quote from: Mister E on February 17, 2020, 09:17:25 AM
AEG was having a stormer and Samatta didn't need subbing yesterday.

Smith's biggest mistake is in not bringing in a proper defence coach - this is what will cause our demise, not his substitutions.

AEG was terrific outlet in first half yesterday. At start of second had shot on target and won corner for second. I'm a critic as I think he's much better than he's shown for most of the season.. Just another incredibly inconsistant young player who''s struggled with the level of this league, we have a few of them.

The reality is though after the hour mark we ceased to be an attacking threat in the final third and it became very much a case of scrapping out a 2-2 so I didn't really mind the subs yesterday bar perhaps bringing on Hourihane and making the midfield narrower.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 17, 2020, 01:04:14 PM
Subbing Samatta was pointless, Drinkwater knackered so fair enough, we needed more legs in midfield so Hourihane for AEG would have been a better idea
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on February 17, 2020, 01:06:03 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 17, 2020, 09:33:41 AM
Quote from: Mister E on February 17, 2020, 09:17:25 AM
AEG was having a stormer and Samatta didn't need subbing yesterday.

Smith's biggest mistake is in not bringing in a proper defence coach - this is what will cause our demise, not his substitutions.
Please explain what is needed to be defensively coached.



Our offside trap was abysmal yesterday. Completely failed.

In the first half we were well on top and Spurs had 35% possesion in first half hour yet they were still getting through from one ball over the top on 4-5 occasions.

I can't believe it would've been as bad if Mings was out there telling them when to push up or drop deep.

We just lack leaders and organisers in defence. There's only so much Reina can do being thirty yards away.

Now for DS the situation is this...will we set up in exactly the same manner v Chelsea, Arsenal and Man. United or will he modify things? That's what good coaches do. If he dosen't I fear the pace in the Arsenal and Man. United front three will score even when we're having good spells like yesterday and those will be two hard luck stories. Newcastle showed very recently v Chelsea you can beat them if you sit back and put men behind the ball.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on February 17, 2020, 01:09:39 PM
Quote from: Smithy on February 17, 2020, 12:44:45 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on February 17, 2020, 12:42:08 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 17, 2020, 12:21:28 PM
Another point on smith why the helm did he puss so many peope foraard at such a vital stage of the game?? Jesus there is no way with 90 seconds left we should only havetwo have players back.

His naive and quite frankly idiotic decisions at times are costing us points. A point and a gaol goal conceded could be vital come end of season


Watford.


And Brighton. Where a defender scored the winner in the 94th minute, when perhaps he should have been in his own half securing the point?

That was a little different. Free kick on halfway line so always a good chance for ball to get in the box and see what happens. Even if Watford had cleared they'd have been no time to get up the pitch.

We should've just accepted the point, it would've been more than decent. Can't believe given we still had 5 defenders on the pitch there wasn't much cover once Engels had played himself out of the game.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 17, 2020, 01:10:34 PM
The problem isn't really with the defence, it's the midfield.  From the point of view of offering any sort of protection, it's utterly shit.  You've got Luiz who is good on the ball, but can't tackle, and Drinkwater who is one of the slowest players we've had in years.  Nakamba can tackle, but makes too many bad decisions with the ball.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on February 17, 2020, 01:10:42 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on February 17, 2020, 01:09:39 PM
Quote from: Smithy on February 17, 2020, 12:44:45 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on February 17, 2020, 12:42:08 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 17, 2020, 12:21:28 PM
Another point on smith why the helm did he puss so many peope foraard at such a vital stage of the game?? Jesus there is no way with 90 seconds left we should only havetwo have players back.

His naive and quite frankly idiotic decisions at times are costing us points. A point and a gaol goal conceded could be vital come end of season


Watford.


And Brighton. Where a defender scored the winner in the 94th minute, when perhaps he should have been in his own half securing the point?

That was a little different. Free kick on halfway line so always a good chance for ball to get in the box and see what happens. Even if Watford had cleared they'd have been no time to get up the pitch.

We should've just accepted the point, it would've been more than decent. Can't believe given we still had 5 defenders on the pitch there wasn't much cover once Engels had played himself out of the game.

Hindsight United won again, I see.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on February 17, 2020, 01:20:17 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on February 17, 2020, 01:10:42 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on February 17, 2020, 01:09:39 PM
Quote from: Smithy on February 17, 2020, 12:44:45 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on February 17, 2020, 12:42:08 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 17, 2020, 12:21:28 PM
Another point on smith why the helm did he puss so many peope foraard at such a vital stage of the game?? Jesus there is no way with 90 seconds left we should only havetwo have players back.

His naive and quite frankly idiotic decisions at times are costing us points. A point and a gaol goal conceded could be vital come end of season


Watford.


And Brighton. Where a defender scored the winner in the 94th minute, when perhaps he should have been in his own half securing the point?

That was a little different. Free kick on halfway line so always a good chance for ball to get in the box and see what happens. Even if Watford had cleared they'd have been no time to get up the pitch.

We should've just accepted the point, it would've been more than decent. Can't believe given we still had 5 defenders on the pitch there wasn't much cover once Engels had played himself out of the game.

Hindsight United won again, I see.

Well if we have a goal kick in 93rd minute in remaining games this season and we don't concede a goal thirty seconds later then it will be a good thing.

I certainly wasn't calling for us to go forward at that stage yesterday. Was more than happy with the 2-2 considering how the last 20 minutes of the game had gone. Was delighted when Winks fired over from the wide free kick and naively thought we'd be o.k given there was a minute left.

We do have an incredible ability to always find new ways of losing these types of fixtures season in season out. Felt like it ever since we lost that awful cup game to Man. United in 2002.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on February 17, 2020, 01:24:45 PM
I was happy for us not to fuck up in the last minute against Watford. 55 seconds later I was bouncing up and down with sheer delight. The same goes for Leicester. These things happen and it's what Dean Smith does - he was loved for it last season and he's being castigated for it now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 17, 2020, 01:47:22 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on February 17, 2020, 01:24:45 PM
I was happy for us not to fuck up in the last minute against Watford. 55 seconds later I was bouncing up and down with sheer delight. The same goes for Leicester. These things happen and it's what Dean Smith does - he was loved for it last season and he's being castigated for it now.

Just because something worked in the Championship doesn't mean it's going to be successful in the Premier League.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 17, 2020, 01:47:26 PM
No team has scored more 90th minute goals than us this season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 17, 2020, 01:53:20 PM
Quote from: Ads on February 17, 2020, 01:47:26 PM
No team has scored more 90th minute goals than us this season.

Great.   Two of those were consolation goals in piss poor defeats.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 17, 2020, 01:55:55 PM
And three of them were winners, one of them also made Villa Park explode on a barmy late summer evening.

I think people need a dose of that belief and resolution again for the fight to come.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Demitri_C on February 17, 2020, 02:00:47 PM
Quote from: Smithy on February 17, 2020, 12:44:45 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on February 17, 2020, 12:42:08 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 17, 2020, 12:21:28 PM
Another point on smith why the helm did he puss so many peope foraard at such a vital stage of the game?? Jesus there is no way with 90 seconds left we should only havetwo have players back.

His naive and quite frankly idiotic decisions at times are costing us points. A point and a gaol goal conceded could be vital come end of season


Watford.


And Brighton. Where a defender scored the winner in the 94th minute, when perhaps he should have been in his own half securing the point?

We comparing brighton and watford to spurs? It was a bsd mistake by smith in my opinion knowing the quality spurs possess.

That dropped point and goal could vital come end of season.  He needs to stop gambling its costing us big time.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on February 17, 2020, 02:04:34 PM
Sometimes last minute winners work for you, sometimes they work against you, that's football and most football fans would accept that. We deserved at least a point from yesterday's entertaining game and would have got one but for an unfortunate error. Heads up the Villa players and Deano and take the frustration of yesterday's loss out on Soton next Saturday. UTV!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on February 17, 2020, 02:16:22 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 17, 2020, 09:33:41 AM
Quote from: Mister E on February 17, 2020, 09:17:25 AM
AEG was having a stormer and Samatta didn't need subbing yesterday.

Smith's biggest mistake is in not bringing in a proper defence coach - this is what will cause our demise, not his substitutions.
Please explain what is needed to be defensively coached.
- not playing such a high line when the central centre-back is short of pace
- not playing such a high line when the opposition's front three are grease-lightning speed
- defending corners and other set pieces in range of the penalty area
- distributing the ball from the back

When our goals-conceded is the worst in the division and our previous season also saw a poor defensive return (in terms of goals-conceded), I'd say there's a problem with our defence-coaching. It may be the players we have, but inidividually each have skills that suggest they could be decent. I personally believe that it is coaching that is an issue.
Yes, midfield does not offer the best cover to our defence; yes, we need a better-than-average DMF.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Smithy on February 17, 2020, 02:34:14 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 17, 2020, 02:00:47 PM
Quote from: Smithy on February 17, 2020, 12:44:45 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on February 17, 2020, 12:42:08 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 17, 2020, 12:21:28 PM
Another point on smith why the helm did he puss so many peope foraard at such a vital stage of the game?? Jesus there is no way with 90 seconds left we should only havetwo have players back.

His naive and quite frankly idiotic decisions at times are costing us points. A point and a gaol goal conceded could be vital come end of season


Watford.


And Brighton. Where a defender scored the winner in the 94th minute, when perhaps he should have been in his own half securing the point?

We comparing brighton and watford to spurs? It was a bsd mistake by smith in my opinion knowing the quality spurs possess.

That dropped point and goal could vital come end of season.  He needs to stop gambling its costing us big time.

I'm not comparing Spurs as a team to Brighton as a team, I'm merely pointing out that the "bad mistake" as you put it, of trying to win the game late on was something that got us wins against Watford and Brighton.

I also don't know where you get the idea that we only had two players back? Look at the position of our back three as the ball is played forward.  Nothing really wrong with their position, and Nakamba well placed for the second ball, it's just that Son anticipated a mistake, and the other two central defenders didn't.  It was a technical mistake, not a tactical one. 

It doesn't matter how many defenders you have back level with Engels, if the only one anticipating the miskick is Son, he gets through on goal every single time.

(https://i.ibb.co/pJKNmvZ/Screenshot-2020-02-17-14-28-08.png) (https://ibb.co/pJKNmvZ)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 17, 2020, 05:27:05 PM
Quote from: Mister E on February 17, 2020, 02:16:22 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 17, 2020, 09:33:41 AM
Quote from: Mister E on February 17, 2020, 09:17:25 AM
AEG was having a stormer and Samatta didn't need subbing yesterday.

Smith's biggest mistake is in not bringing in a proper defence coach - this is what will cause our demise, not his substitutions.
Please explain what is needed to be defensively coached.
- not playing such a high line when the central centre-back is short of pace
- not playing such a high line when the opposition's front three are grease-lightning speed
- defending corners and other set pieces in range of the penalty area
- distributing the ball from the back

When our goals-conceded is the worst in the division and our previous season also saw a poor defensive return (in terms of goals-conceded), I'd say there's a problem with our defence-coaching. It may be the players we have, but inidividually each have skills that suggest they could be decent. I personally believe that it is coaching that is an issue.
Yes, midfield does not offer the best cover to our defence; yes, we need a better-than-average DMF.
The high line is an instruction, would suggest they are doing what they have been coached to do.
We are conceding too many chances and too many goals, it is the midfield that is the problem, has been all season.
 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 17, 2020, 05:30:10 PM
I don't think we were especially going for it on 94 minutes yesterday, it was just a catastrophic individual mistake.  If Engels had got any sort of contact on the ball instead of doing an Enckelman, then it was pretty much game over, and would have been a well-earned point.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan82 on February 17, 2020, 05:43:12 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 17, 2020, 05:30:10 PM
I don't think we were especially going for it on 94 minutes yesterday, it was just a catastrophic individual mistake.  If Engels had got any sort of contact on the ball instead of doing an Enckelman, then it was pretty much game over, and would have been a well-earned point.

It just stings.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Demitri_C on February 17, 2020, 05:55:56 PM
Quote from: Smithy on February 17, 2020, 02:34:14 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 17, 2020, 02:00:47 PM
Quote from: Smithy on February 17, 2020, 12:44:45 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on February 17, 2020, 12:42:08 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 17, 2020, 12:21:28 PM
Another point on smith why the helm did he puss so many peope foraard at such a vital stage of the game?? Jesus there is no way with 90 seconds left we should only havetwo have players back.

His naive and quite frankly idiotic decisions at times are costing us points. A point and a gaol goal conceded could be vital come end of season


Watford.


And Brighton. Where a defender scored the winner in the 94th minute, when perhaps he should have been in his own half securing the point?

We comparing brighton and watford to spurs? It was a bsd mistake by smith in my opinion knowing the quality spurs possess.

That dropped point and goal could vital come end of season.  He needs to stop gambling its costing us big time.

I'm not comparing Spurs as a team to Brighton as a team, I'm merely pointing out that the "bad mistake" as you put it, of trying to win the game late on was something that got us wins against Watford and Brighton.

I also don't know where you get the idea that we only had two players back? Look at the position of our back three as the ball is played forward.  Nothing really wrong with their position, and Nakamba well placed for the second ball, it's just that Son anticipated a mistake, and the other two central defenders didn't.  It was a technical mistake, not a tactical one. 

It doesn't matter how many defenders you have back level with Engels, if the only one anticipating the miskick is Son, he gets through on goal every single time.

(https://i.ibb.co/pJKNmvZ/Screenshot-2020-02-17-14-28-08.png) (https://ibb.co/pJKNmvZ)

Looking at that photo jesus the positioning is absolutely atrocious. Our line looks way too high.Those three near the stand they are not marking anyone. Nakamba for me should be a bit further back not at half way line.

Konsa is too close to engels as well for me. But from that photo only engels and konsa are behind son.

Thats what makes brilliant footballers anticipating mistakes. We dont seem to do that sadly.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on February 17, 2020, 06:13:42 PM
Given we seem to be sailing close to the wind with FFP constraints and also needed a huge squad turnaround, Smith is doing ok.  He still pisses me off with some of the game management stuff and lack of dealing with the physicality in midfield, but given the constraints, he's doing ok. No better than that though and I do wonder if a more premier league experienced manager might get more out of this current squad? However, that ship has sailed and we finish the season with Dean Smith in charge.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Smithy on February 17, 2020, 07:45:25 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 17, 2020, 05:55:56 PM
Quote from: Smithy on February 17, 2020, 02:34:14 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 17, 2020, 02:00:47 PM
Quote from: Smithy on February 17, 2020, 12:44:45 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on February 17, 2020, 12:42:08 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 17, 2020, 12:21:28 PM
Another point on smith why the helm did he puss so many peope foraard at such a vital stage of the game?? Jesus there is no way with 90 seconds left we should only havetwo have players back.

His naive and quite frankly idiotic decisions at times are costing us points. A point and a gaol goal conceded could be vital come end of season


Watford.


And Brighton. Where a defender scored the winner in the 94th minute, when perhaps he should have been in his own half securing the point?

We comparing brighton and watford to spurs? It was a bsd mistake by smith in my opinion knowing the quality spurs possess.

That dropped point and goal could vital come end of season.  He needs to stop gambling its costing us big time.

I'm not comparing Spurs as a team to Brighton as a team, I'm merely pointing out that the "bad mistake" as you put it, of trying to win the game late on was something that got us wins against Watford and Brighton.

I also don't know where you get the idea that we only had two players back? Look at the position of our back three as the ball is played forward.  Nothing really wrong with their position, and Nakamba well placed for the second ball, it's just that Son anticipated a mistake, and the other two central defenders didn't.  It was a technical mistake, not a tactical one. 

It doesn't matter how many defenders you have back level with Engels, if the only one anticipating the miskick is Son, he gets through on goal every single time.

(https://i.ibb.co/pJKNmvZ/Screenshot-2020-02-17-14-28-08.png) (https://ibb.co/pJKNmvZ)

Looking at that photo jesus the positioning is absolutely atrocious. Our line looks way too high.Those three near the stand they are not marking anyone. Nakamba for me should be a bit further back not at half way line.

Konsa is too close to engels as well for me. But from that photo only engels and konsa are behind son.

Thats what makes brilliant footballers anticipating mistakes. We dont seem to do that sadly.

There's a bit to unpack, here, so forgive me - but I feel obliged to pick on some of this.  The positioning of the defence is precisely as it was for the 93 minutes that preceded it.  The high line and high-press is what led us to having most of the ball and creating the best chances in the first half - denying their front four 'room to play'.  It worked pretty well in the first-half, and but for a poor finish from Luiz we'd have been 2-0 up. 

Now, if your position is we - as a team - should not be defending with a high line, then that's fair enough. I would disagree, but that's a perfectly reasonable position to hold. BUT that wasn't your point originally, it was "why did Smith have so many people forward at such a vital stage of the game" and "why did he only leave two defenders back" - whereas he demonstrably did not have "so many people forward" or leave "only two defenders back"

As for the three "not marking anyone", well, it was OUR set-piece, and two of them had just gone for a header (unchallenged). I don't believe even Mourinho, at the height of his bus-parking days, ever had his players marking the opposition during their OWN set-pieces. That would be negative to a level not really seen in the professional game.  On our goal kick it's for them to mark US. Be aware of them, obviously - but mark them? Nonsense. When possession is lost, we move ahead with our press and mark them.  If your midfield is marking the opposition on your own set-pieces, when do you...  you know, attack?

And finally, anticipating mistakes is not what makes brilliant footballers. Because at the very top level such mistakes are VERY few and far between, if your movement during the game was focussed on anticipating the mistakes of your team-mates, you'd be wasting a LOT of energy and losing momentum when in possession.  Yes, defenders often come round on the cover to anticipate a teammate missing or losing a header or tackle, but NOT when the ball is coming at them at foot level and they aren't under pressure.  Konsa and Hause did nothing wrong by not sprinting backwards on the off-chance Engels missed the ball.

Spurs' third goal was nothing but a catastrophic individual technical error. It wasn't a tactical error. It wasn't because we had too many men forward. It wasn't because the midfield wasn't marking anyone. It wasn't because the two other central defenders didn't anticipate such a massive mistake.  If Engels connects with that ball the way he would 999 times out of a thousand, we get a deserved point.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on February 17, 2020, 08:05:24 PM
Quote from: Smithy on February 17, 2020, 02:34:14 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 17, 2020, 02:00:47 PM
Quote from: Smithy on February 17, 2020, 12:44:45 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on February 17, 2020, 12:42:08 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 17, 2020, 12:21:28 PM
Another point on smith why the helm did he puss so many peope foraard at such a vital stage of the game?? Jesus there is no way with 90 seconds left we should only havetwo have players back.

His naive and quite frankly idiotic decisions at times are costing us points. A point and a gaol goal conceded could be vital come end of season


Watford.


And Brighton. Where a defender scored the winner in the 94th minute, when perhaps he should have been in his own half securing the point?

We comparing brighton and watford to spurs? It was a bsd mistake by smith in my opinion knowing the quality spurs possess.

That dropped point and goal could vital come end of season.  He needs to stop gambling its costing us big time.

I'm not comparing Spurs as a team to Brighton as a team, I'm merely pointing out that the "bad mistake" as you put it, of trying to win the game late on was something that got us wins against Watford and Brighton.

I also don't know where you get the idea that we only had two players back? Look at the position of our back three as the ball is played forward.  Nothing really wrong with their position, and Nakamba well placed for the second ball, it's just that Son anticipated a mistake, and the other two central defenders didn't.  It was a technical mistake, not a tactical one. 

It doesn't matter how many defenders you have back level with Engels, if the only one anticipating the miskick is Son, he gets through on goal every single time.

(https://i.ibb.co/pJKNmvZ/Screenshot-2020-02-17-14-28-08.png) (https://ibb.co/pJKNmvZ)


Interesting pic Smithy, cheers for showing that. Really to me (again with my Hindsight United bobble hat on!) with 30 seconds left our back 3 really shouldn't have been that close to halfway line and certainly Targett and Gulibert shouldn't have been in opposition half.

It's gone now anyway. Let's just hope we learn from this if as I'm pretty sure if we're to get the four wins we need they won't be easy 3-0 wins but more narrow one goal wins when we'll be under mass pressure going into injury time so it's a skill we need to gain if we're to stay up.

Sheffield United have seen close games out countless times this season against decent teams. Same for likes of Palace, Bournemouth and Newcastle. If they can do it we should be able to.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on February 17, 2020, 08:09:43 PM
I really don’t think it matters wherever anyone is positioned when such an unexpected, unforced, individual mistake is made.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Demitri_C on February 17, 2020, 08:11:16 PM
Quote from: Smithy on February 17, 2020, 07:45:25 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 17, 2020, 05:55:56 PM
Quote from: Smithy on February 17, 2020, 02:34:14 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 17, 2020, 02:00:47 PM
Quote from: Smithy on February 17, 2020, 12:44:45 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on February 17, 2020, 12:42:08 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 17, 2020, 12:21:28 PM
Another point on smith why the helm did he puss so many peope foraard at such a vital stage of the game?? Jesus there is no way with 90 seconds left we should only havetwo have players back.

His naive and quite frankly idiotic decisions at times are costing us points. A point and a gaol goal conceded could be vital come end of season


Watford.


And Brighton. Where a defender scored the winner in the 94th minute, when perhaps he should have been in his own half securing the point?

We comparing brighton and watford to spurs? It was a bsd mistake by smith in my opinion knowing the quality spurs possess.

That dropped point and goal could vital come end of season.  He needs to stop gambling its costing us big time.

I'm not comparing Spurs as a team to Brighton as a team, I'm merely pointing out that the "bad mistake" as you put it, of trying to win the game late on was something that got us wins against Watford and Brighton.

I also don't know where you get the idea that we only had two players back? Look at the position of our back three as the ball is played forward.  Nothing really wrong with their position, and Nakamba well placed for the second ball, it's just that Son anticipated a mistake, and the other two central defenders didn't.  It was a technical mistake, not a tactical one. 

It doesn't matter how many defenders you have back level with Engels, if the only one anticipating the miskick is Son, he gets through on goal every single time.

(https://i.ibb.co/pJKNmvZ/Screenshot-2020-02-17-14-28-08.png) (https://ibb.co/pJKNmvZ)

Looking at that photo jesus the positioning is absolutely atrocious. Our line looks way too high.Those three near the stand they are not marking anyone. Nakamba for me should be a bit further back not at half way line.

Konsa is too close to engels as well for me. But from that photo only engels and konsa are behind son.

Thats what makes brilliant footballers anticipating mistakes. We dont seem to do that sadly.

There's a bit to unpack, here, so forgive me - but I feel obliged to pick on some of this.  The positioning of the defence is precisely as it was for the 93 minutes that preceded it.  The high line and high-press is what led us to having most of the ball and creating the best chances in the first half - denying their front four 'room to play'.  It worked pretty well in the first-half, and but for a poor finish from Luiz we'd have been 2-0 up. 

Now, if your position is we - as a team - should not be defending with a high line, then that's fair enough. I would disagree, but that's a perfectly reasonable position to hold. BUT that wasn't your point originally, it was "why did Smith have so many people forward at such a vital stage of the game" and "why did he only leave two defenders back" - whereas he demonstrably did not have "so many people forward" or leave "only two defenders back"

As for the three "not marking anyone", well, it was OUR set-piece, and two of them had just gone for a header (unchallenged). I don't believe even Mourinho, at the height of his bus-parking days, ever had his players marking the opposition during their OWN set-pieces. That would be negative to a level not really seen in the professional game.  On our goal kick it's for them to mark US. Be aware of them, obviously - but mark them? Nonsense. When possession is lost, we move ahead with our press and mark them.  If your midfield is marking the opposition on your own set-pieces, when do you...  you know, attack?

And finally, anticipating mistakes is not what makes brilliant footballers. Because at the very top level such mistakes are VERY few and far between, if your movement during the game was focussed on anticipating the mistakes of your team-mates, you'd be wasting a LOT of energy and losing momentum when in possession.  Yes, defenders often come round on the cover to anticipate a teammate missing or losing a header or tackle, but NOT when the ball is coming at them at foot level and they aren't under pressure.  Konsa and Hause did nothing wrong by not sprinting backwards on the off-chance Engels missed the ball.

Spurs' third goal was nothing but a catastrophic individual technical error. It wasn't a tactical error. It wasn't because we had too many men forward. It wasn't because the midfield wasn't marking anyone. It wasn't because the two other central defenders didn't anticipate such a massive mistake.  If Engels connects with that ball the way he would 999 times out of a thousand, we get a deserved point.

Well structured post that mate 👍
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on February 17, 2020, 08:12:41 PM
Quote from: PeterWithe on February 17, 2020, 08:09:43 PM
I really don’t think it matters wherever anyone is positioned when such an unexpected, unforced, individual mistake is made.

It obviously does, though. If Hause is even a yard behind where he is, or even Konsa who is far too advanced, they have a strong chance of coming across Son's path. Worst case scenario they miss the ball and take a red for the team by clattering into Son.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on February 17, 2020, 08:20:59 PM
Disagree, there is always someone who is going to be last man and you wouldn’t plan for a mistake like that in a kids game. The three central defenders look in a good shape in that photo, you can’t legislate for it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mrfuse on February 17, 2020, 08:32:58 PM
Quote from: PeterWithe on February 17, 2020, 08:20:59 PM
Disagree, there is always someone who is going to be last man and you wouldn’t plan for a mistake like that in a kids game. The three central defenders look in a good shape in that photo, you can’t legislate for it.

Agree, I think we are over analysing one players mistake.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on February 17, 2020, 08:34:20 PM
Quote from: PeterWithe on February 17, 2020, 08:09:43 PM
I really don’t think it matters wherever anyone is positioned when such an unexpected, unforced, individual mistake is made.
This. It's pointless talking about shape and tactics etc etc. It was an easy ball to control and clear and the lad made an horrendous error. It had nothing to do with quality of their forwards or how crap we are defensively. They got lucky that's all.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 17, 2020, 08:46:43 PM
It’s pretty obvious that a few criticizing the shape have never played in defense or maybe at all.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on February 17, 2020, 09:19:54 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 17, 2020, 08:46:43 PM
It’s pretty obvious that a few criticizing the shape have never played in defense or maybe at all.

Most football fans of any age will have played at some level, certainly my generation anyway. You don't have any special insight just because you've done it too.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: BoVillan esq on February 17, 2020, 09:30:59 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on February 17, 2020, 09:19:54 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 17, 2020, 08:46:43 PM
It’s pretty obvious that a few criticizing the shape have never played in defense or maybe at all.

Most football fans of any age will have played at some level, certainly my generation anyway. You don't have any special insight just because you've done it too.

To true, I played at all levels and still haven't a clue about the nuances of the game today.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 17, 2020, 10:54:16 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on February 17, 2020, 09:19:54 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 17, 2020, 08:46:43 PM
It’s pretty obvious that a few criticizing the shape have never played in defense or maybe at all.

Most football fans of any age will have played at some level, certainly my generation anyway. You don't have any special insight just because you've done it too.
Maybe the difference is playing with for people who know how to organize a team and a defense. There are some bat shit crazy comments about Engels position and the position of the players that make absolutely no sense at all.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on February 18, 2020, 07:19:07 AM
At the time we got Smith, many many people on here were happy that we'd take a risk, try and win rather than try not to lose.

"Are you not entertained? Are you not entertained? Is this not why you are here?" springs to mind.

We're trying win and coming close. The football is much better.

The defeats hurt, possibly more than a 1-0 loss under Bruce, but the wins are so much better.

It's nerve shredding. But we're a better attacking side than we've been for years.

It's high risk stuff mind.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 18, 2020, 07:31:07 AM
Quote from: Drummond on February 18, 2020, 07:19:07 AM
At the time we got Smith, many many people on here were happy that we'd take a risk, try and win rather than try not to lose.

"Are you not entertained? Are you not entertained? Is this not why you are here?" springs to mind.

We're trying win and coming close. The football is much better.

The defeats hurt, possibly more than a 1-0 loss under Bruce, but the wins are so much better.

It's nerve shredding. But we're a better attacking side than we've been for years.

It's high risk stuff mind.
If I was a neutral I would watch Villa games because it’s exciting stuff usually.
The Spurs game was great to watch until we got done at the end.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on February 18, 2020, 07:56:57 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 18, 2020, 07:31:07 AM
Quote from: Drummond on February 18, 2020, 07:19:07 AM
At the time we got Smith, many many people on here were happy that we'd take a risk, try and win rather than try not to lose.

"Are you not entertained? Are you not entertained? Is this not why you are here?" springs to mind.

We're trying win and coming close. The football is much better.

The defeats hurt, possibly more than a 1-0 loss under Bruce, but the wins are so much better.

It's nerve shredding. But we're a better attacking side than we've been for years.

It's high risk stuff mind.
If I was a neutral I would watch Villa games because it’s exciting stuff usually.
The Spurs game was great to watch until we got done at the end.


This is of course true. Six or Seven points above relegation, I would agree. However, as we are in a relegation fight, points are more important, and I don’t care if we bore draw ourselves to safety.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Smithy on February 18, 2020, 09:01:18 AM
Quote from: Three Spires Villa on February 18, 2020, 07:56:57 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 18, 2020, 07:31:07 AM
Quote from: Drummond on February 18, 2020, 07:19:07 AM
At the time we got Smith, many many people on here were happy that we'd take a risk, try and win rather than try not to lose.

"Are you not entertained? Are you not entertained? Is this not why you are here?" springs to mind.

We're trying win and coming close. The football is much better.

The defeats hurt, possibly more than a 1-0 loss under Bruce, but the wins are so much better.

It's nerve shredding. But we're a better attacking side than we've been for years.

It's high risk stuff mind.
If I was a neutral I would watch Villa games because it’s exciting stuff usually.
The Spurs game was great to watch until we got done at the end.


This is of course true. Six or Seven points above relegation, I would agree. However, as we are in a relegation fight, points are more important, and I don’t care if we bore draw ourselves to safety.

That's perfectly reasonable, but what if we go for bore draws and then get relegated? It's not like playing boring defensive football guarantees results.  I'm sure we'd all prefer to win 1-0 in a boring game, than lose 3-2 in an entertaining one, but that's simply not how our manager, and our team, play these days. We don't really have the personnel for it.

It's not that long ago we were all watching boring football and crap results.  Personally speaking, I'm happier watching a team that tries to win, even when they fail, than watching a team sent out to avoid failing.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on February 18, 2020, 09:09:08 AM
Quote from: Smithy on February 18, 2020, 09:01:18 AM
Quote from: Three Spires Villa on February 18, 2020, 07:56:57 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 18, 2020, 07:31:07 AM
Quote from: Drummond on February 18, 2020, 07:19:07 AM
At the time we got Smith, many many people on here were happy that we'd take a risk, try and win rather than try not to lose.

"Are you not entertained? Are you not entertained? Is this not why you are here?" springs to mind.

We're trying win and coming close. The football is much better.

The defeats hurt, possibly more than a 1-0 loss under Bruce, but the wins are so much better.

It's nerve shredding. But we're a better attacking side than we've been for years.

It's high risk stuff mind.
If I was a neutral I would watch Villa games because it’s exciting stuff usually.
The Spurs game was great to watch until we got done at the end.


This is of course true. Six or Seven points above relegation, I would agree. However, as we are in a relegation fight, points are more important, and I don’t care if we bore draw ourselves to safety.

That's perfectly reasonable, but what if we go for bore draws and then get relegated? It's not like playing boring defensive football guarantees results.  I'm sure we'd all prefer to win 1-0 in a boring game, than lose 3-2 in an entertaining one, but that's simply not how our manager, and our team, play these days. We don't really have the personnel for it.

It's not that long ago we were all watching boring football and crap results.  Personally speaking, I'm happier watching a team that tries to win, even when they fail, than watching a team sent out to avoid failing.

That's it for me. We're trying to actually win. There are games when it goes tits up obviously, it's not nice but it's the nature of things.

I'd rather we won every game 1-0 too but trying it leads to what we had under Bruce. It was truly horrible. Arsenal were the masters of it back in the day but not many others are.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on February 18, 2020, 09:10:59 AM
Yup, it's why we still play in front of full houses every other weekend, not just mid-to-upper thirties.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on February 18, 2020, 09:38:18 AM
"Listen, people keep talking about you can't beat the top teams. It's not rocket science. You play the teams in and around you, they're the type of games you're meant to win or compete in''

Well that won't be enough Dean, so unless you view the games against the better teams differently we are going to end up relegated.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on February 18, 2020, 10:00:46 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 17, 2020, 08:46:43 PM
It’s pretty obvious that a few criticizing the shape have never played in defense or maybe at all.
This is the classic Brucism  - "Fans - what do they know?"

My concern is not necessarily Sunday's game: it is the goals-conceded,  both this season and last.
I'd like to know more about how the coaching team is trying to address our clear deficiency in defending.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on February 18, 2020, 10:16:55 AM
What I was trying to say was that personally I don’t care how we play, as long as we stop up. I am concerned about the points we have dropped from winning and drawing positions. Our style of play may or may not have contributed to this.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Smithy on February 18, 2020, 10:40:32 AM
Quote from: Three Spires Villa on February 18, 2020, 10:16:55 AM
What I was trying to say was that personally I don’t care how we play, as long as we stop up. I am concerned about the points we have dropped from winning and drawing positions. Our style of play may or may not have contributed to this.

Our style of play definitely contributed to us getting those leads in the first place.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 18, 2020, 10:56:27 AM
Quote from: Mister E on February 18, 2020, 10:00:46 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 17, 2020, 08:46:43 PM
It’s pretty obvious that a few criticizing the shape have never played in defense or maybe at all.
This is the classic Brucism  - "Fans - what do they know?"

My concern is not necessarily Sunday's game: it is the goals-conceded,  both this season and last.
I'd like to know more about how the coaching team is trying to address our clear deficiency in defending.
It was about the only thing he could organize + the runner to the hip shop.
I would agree about the front post position at corners though.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on February 18, 2020, 11:21:05 AM
Quote from: aj2k77 on February 18, 2020, 09:38:18 AM
"Listen, people keep talking about you can't beat the top teams. It's not rocket science. You play the teams in and around you, they're the type of games you're meant to win or compete in''

Well that won't be enough Dean, so unless you view the games against the better teams differently we are going to end up relegated.

It's been enough so far as we're not in the bottom three, so how can you be so sure?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on February 18, 2020, 11:26:09 AM
Quote from: LeeB on February 18, 2020, 11:21:05 AM
Quote from: aj2k77 on February 18, 2020, 09:38:18 AM
"Listen, people keep talking about you can't beat the top teams. It's not rocket science. You play the teams in and around you, they're the type of games you're meant to win or compete in''

Well that won't be enough Dean, so unless you view the games against the better teams differently we are going to end up relegated.

It's been enough so far as we're not in the bottom three, so how can you be so sure?

Judgement can be delayed until the end of the season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Duncan Shaw on February 18, 2020, 11:33:17 AM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on February 18, 2020, 11:26:09 AM
Quote from: LeeB on February 18, 2020, 11:21:05 AM
Quote from: aj2k77 on February 18, 2020, 09:38:18 AM
"Listen, people keep talking about you can't beat the top teams. It's not rocket science. You play the teams in and around you, they're the type of games you're meant to win or compete in''

Well that won't be enough Dean, so unless you view the games against the better teams differently we are going to end up relegated.

It's been enough so far as we're not in the bottom three, so how can you be so sure?

Judgement can be delayed until the end of the season.
I mentioned this in the post-match thread - the problem is we haven;t been doing that have we.  Play at Bournemouth like we started vs Spuds and we'd have buried them by half time, but we didn't turn up that day.  Same at Watford, Southampton at home etc.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on February 18, 2020, 11:56:24 AM
Quote from: LeeB on February 18, 2020, 11:21:05 AM
Quote from: aj2k77 on February 18, 2020, 09:38:18 AM
"Listen, people keep talking about you can't beat the top teams. It's not rocket science. You play the teams in and around you, they're the type of games you're meant to win or compete in''

Well that won't be enough Dean, so unless you view the games against the better teams differently we are going to end up relegated.

It's been enough so far as we're not in the bottom three, so how can you be so sure?

Unless things change,we have struggled terribly against teams in the top half.

bottom half opposition

p 14
w 6
d 3
l 5
pts 21

 top half opposition

p 12
w 1
d 1
l 10
pts 4

8 fixtures against the top half to play and 4 against the bottom half.  If we continue as we have all season we will end up on around 34/35 pts. Which won't be enough to stay up. We have to improve against teams in the top half and not approach just with the mindset that the games against them won't define us, as Smith, by his own words, currently sees it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 18, 2020, 11:59:46 AM
Quote from: LeeB on February 18, 2020, 11:21:05 AM
Quote from: aj2k77 on February 18, 2020, 09:38:18 AM
"Listen, people keep talking about you can't beat the top teams. It's not rocket science. You play the teams in and around you, they're the type of games you're meant to win or compete in''

Well that won't be enough Dean, so unless you view the games against the better teams differently we are going to end up relegated.

It's been enough so far as we're not in the bottom three, so how can you be so sure?

We're running out of shit teams around us to scrape points from.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clark W Griswold on February 18, 2020, 12:10:48 PM
Quote from: aj2k77 on February 18, 2020, 11:56:24 AM
Quote from: LeeB on February 18, 2020, 11:21:05 AM
Quote from: aj2k77 on February 18, 2020, 09:38:18 AM
"Listen, people keep talking about you can't beat the top teams. It's not rocket science. You play the teams in and around you, they're the type of games you're meant to win or compete in''

Well that won't be enough Dean, so unless you view the games against the better teams differently we are going to end up relegated.

It's been enough so far as we're not in the bottom three, so how can you be so sure?

Unless things change,we have struggled terribly against teams in the top half.

bottom half opposition

p 14
w 6
d 3
l 5
pts 21

 top half opposition

p 12
w 1
d 1
l 10
pts 4

8 fixtures against the top half to play and 4 against the bottom half.  If we continue as we have all season we will end up on around 34/35 pts. Which won't be enough to stay up. We have to improve against teams in the top half and not approach just with the mindset that the games against them won't define us, as Smith, by his own words, currently sees it.

Good analysis and indeed pretty worrying.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on February 18, 2020, 12:14:54 PM
He's obviously banking on 4 points from Southampton and Newcastle away games and at least 4 points from Sheffield United and Palace at home, perhaps 6 with way DS is talking. And also the West Ham game on the final day but I'd prefer to be safe by then.

That would still only get us to 35 points so yes we need a win v someone decent (and that's provided we actually turn up in these six pointers which isn't a given).

Don't really see a results formula where we stay up continuing to barely take a point off top 8 teams. Everton away and Wolves at home also fall into that category now (Arsenal at home currently dosen't) so we surely can't just be writing off those games.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on February 18, 2020, 12:15:38 PM
It's pretty clear from the way we played on Sunday that nobody's writing off games against the top half sides.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on February 18, 2020, 12:38:42 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on February 18, 2020, 12:15:38 PM
It's pretty clear from the way we played on Sunday that nobody's writing off games against the top half sides.

Precisely.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on February 18, 2020, 12:45:52 PM
Credit to Dean Smith and the coaching staff. We scored from a corner on Sunday. Was that the first of the season?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: itbrvilla on February 18, 2020, 12:46:54 PM
We need to start working the opposition keepers and stop putting our own under so much pressure.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 18, 2020, 07:39:41 PM
We’re not done, clearly. But fucking hell we need to either start winning away games or beating some top half sides or we’re toast. We have dropped points far too easily.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on February 18, 2020, 07:53:21 PM
The Arse and Manure have been distinctly average by their own standards this season- by the time they come to B6 they will be world beaters again - :(
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: walsall villain on February 18, 2020, 08:01:23 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on February 18, 2020, 07:53:21 PM
The Arse and Manure have been distinctly average by their own standards this season- by the time they come to B6 they will be world beaters again - :(
That thought had crossed my mind. Even Spurs had improved very recently.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 19, 2020, 08:04:02 AM
Spurs have taken more points than anybody bar Liverpool since Mourinho took over. They were incredible fortunate against us.

I'd love us to batter both Man United and Arsenal.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on February 19, 2020, 11:17:24 AM
Quote from: Ads on February 19, 2020, 08:04:02 AM
Spurs have taken more points than anybody bar Liverpool since Mourinho took over. They were incredible fortunate against us.

I'd love us to batter both Man United and Arsenal.
wouldn't we all - however the reality is we couldn't do that when we were a decent side let alone the team that can't beat Bournemouth home or away - I admire your optimism however
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 19, 2020, 01:02:40 PM
I don't understand your logic.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clark W Griswold on February 19, 2020, 01:47:48 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on February 19, 2020, 11:17:24 AM
Quote from: Ads on February 19, 2020, 08:04:02 AM
Spurs have taken more points than anybody bar Liverpool since Mourinho took over. They were incredible fortunate against us.

I'd love us to batter both Man United and Arsenal.
wouldn't we all - however the reality is we couldn't do that when we were a decent side let alone the team that can't beat Bournemouth home or away - I admire your optimism however

Xmas 1989, Aston Villa 3 Man Utd 0, Aston Villa 2 Arsenal 1.
:-)

I know what you mean though, It hasn’t happened much since!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: colin69 on February 19, 2020, 01:57:44 PM
Those were the first two games I’d attended at Villa Park for a while after living in Somerset due to work. God knows how many of us were crammed into the Holte End for the Man Utd game but what a day that was.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clark W Griswold on February 19, 2020, 02:19:57 PM
Yes it was the most packed I’d experienced up to that point.

Fergie, on the dole....
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on February 19, 2020, 07:34:18 PM
Quote from: Clark W Griswold on February 19, 2020, 02:19:57 PM
Yes it was the most packed I’d experienced up to that point.

Fergie, on the dole....
Where has that 31 years gone?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: colin69 on February 19, 2020, 09:26:29 PM
Scary isn’t it?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on February 19, 2020, 11:08:14 PM
Our record has to improve at some point! I trust Smith to at least try and win.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 21, 2020, 10:42:04 AM
Not sure mentioning Southampton's home record was such a good idea.  Comments like that have a way of coming back and biting you on the arse.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 21, 2020, 12:57:02 PM
Especially when our away record is diabolical.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on February 21, 2020, 02:36:31 PM
Bit silly from Dean. Do the talking on the pitch. These things do not help.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on February 21, 2020, 04:54:17 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 21, 2020, 10:42:04 AM
Not sure mentioning Southampton's home record was such a good idea.  Comments like that have a way of coming back and biting you on the arse.

Yep, pretty much always.

Then again, it may help to add a tad more pressure on them. I hope the latter but fear the former.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tomd2103 on February 21, 2020, 05:00:19 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on February 19, 2020, 11:17:24 AM
Quote from: Ads on February 19, 2020, 08:04:02 AM
Spurs have taken more points than anybody bar Liverpool since Mourinho took over. They were incredible fortunate against us.

I'd love us to batter both Man United and Arsenal.
wouldn't we all - however the reality is we couldn't do that when we were a decent side let alone the team that can't beat Bournemouth home or away - I admire your optimism however
.
They are both totally different propositions now though.  Really should be nothing to fear.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulTheVillan on February 22, 2020, 07:31:53 AM
Lose today and I think it's time for a change
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on February 22, 2020, 07:39:31 AM
A week before a cup final ? That’s not going to happen. He is here for the rest of the season, at least.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on February 22, 2020, 10:23:20 AM
Yeah, I wouldn't have minded getting rid after the last Southampton game. You are never going to play brilliantly every week at this end of the table, but feel he has done enough to keep his job until the end of the season now, barring a hammering next week coupled with a disastrous run of league results.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on February 22, 2020, 10:44:32 AM
For me if we go down, his position should be looked at and maybe time to make a change. If we stay up and he has money, look again at Christmas
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ez on February 22, 2020, 12:49:03 PM
He got a free pass this season because of the promotion. I expect the free pass expires at the end of the season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan82 on February 22, 2020, 12:55:46 PM
It's inevitable that football fans remember the points 'left behind'. However, this season we have really thrown so many points way.

We can all see that our players, while inconsistent, do not look out of place in the premier league. We have gone toe-to-toe with most teams we have played. We have made the transition. However, our points total doesn't quite reflect that. We can all point to Arsenal away, Spurs at home, Bournemouth home & away, Palace away, Wet Spam at home as games where we really should have 5 more points and be sitting on 30 points.

To me, the players are premier league quality and would be much better next year. It's the manager I have had questions marks over all season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on February 22, 2020, 12:57:57 PM
Stick.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan82 on February 22, 2020, 03:12:46 PM
Staying up is far more important to me than either the League Cup or loyalty to Dean Smith.

This season we have been underperforming and I feel that rests on the performance in the dug out.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Demitri_C on February 22, 2020, 03:14:40 PM
Smith isn’t a premier league manager. Simple as that
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on February 22, 2020, 03:18:22 PM
Quote from: Villan82 on February 22, 2020, 12:55:46 PM
It's inevitable that football fans remember the points 'left behind'. However, this season we have really thrown so many points way.

We can all see that our players, while inconsistent, do not look out of place in the premier league. We have gone toe-to-toe with most teams we have played. We have made the transition. However, our points total doesn't quite reflect that. We can all point to Arsenal away, Spurs at home, Bournemouth home & away, Palace away, Wet Spam at home as games where we really should have 5 more points and be sitting on 30 points.

To me, the players are premier league quality and would be much better next year. It's the manager I have had questions marks over all season.

If we genuinely were better than our points total would suggest we'd have a much better goal difference than the second worst in the league.

Reality is, we've built an entirely new team, almost from scratch, we've had serious injuries to our goalie, centre half, central midfielder and main (only) striker and it's a massive step up for the rest of them.

The club and squad are in a much better place than we were 12 months ago, even if we end up getting relegated this season, and there's literally zero evidence coming out of the club that Smith is going anywhere soon.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on February 22, 2020, 03:18:37 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 22, 2020, 03:14:40 PM
Smith isn’t a premier league manager. Simple as that

We're in the Premier League. He got us there. He's our manager. So yes, he's a Premier League manager.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Demitri_C on February 22, 2020, 03:21:57 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 22, 2020, 03:18:37 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 22, 2020, 03:14:40 PM
Smith isn’t a premier league manager. Simple as that

We're in the Premier League. He got us there. He's our manager. So yes, he's a Premier League manager.

He is a championship manager that got us promoted to the premier league. His limitations are there to see. Another dreadful performance. How many times we heard that this this season ??
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on February 22, 2020, 03:26:35 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 22, 2020, 03:21:57 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 22, 2020, 03:18:37 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 22, 2020, 03:14:40 PM
Smith isn’t a premier league manager. Simple as that

We're in the Premier League. He got us there. He's our manager. So yes, he's a Premier League manager.

He is a championship manager that got us promoted to the premier league. His limitations are there to see. Another dreadful performance. How many times we heard that this this season ??

From you? Pretty much every time we concede a goal.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Demitri_C on February 22, 2020, 03:33:50 PM
Quote from: paul_e on February 22, 2020, 03:26:35 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 22, 2020, 03:21:57 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 22, 2020, 03:18:37 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 22, 2020, 03:14:40 PM
Smith isn’t a premier league manager. Simple as that

We're in the Premier League. He got us there. He's our manager. So yes, he's a Premier League manager.

He is a championship manager that got us promoted to the premier league. His limitations are there to see. Another dreadful performance. How many times we heard that this this season ??

From you? Pretty much every time we concede a goal.
[/quot


Nonsense absolute nonsense but hey anything to critise me for. Don’t see you critising others who also are slating smith
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan82 on February 22, 2020, 03:35:15 PM
You cannot blame fans for being annoyed. Look at season ticket sales, look at the attendances? There has been too much incompetence on display this season and we thought we had left those days behind us.

Staying up is paramount. We have good players, we should be 4-5 points better off.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Jon Crofts on February 22, 2020, 03:36:45 PM
He’s looked like he won a raffle in a paper to be Villa manager for a day and someone forgot to tell him it’s over since about November. He’s a bluffer, talks a load of bollocks and hasn’t got the first idea how to change this mess he’s landed us in.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Demitri_C on February 22, 2020, 03:38:10 PM
Quote from: Villan82 on February 22, 2020, 03:35:15 PM
You cannot blame fans for being annoyed. Look at season ticket sales, look at the attendances? There has been too much incompetence on display this season and we thought we had left those days behind us.

Staying up is paramount. We have good players, we should be 4-5 points better off.

Can’t agree more. Smith is failing massively. Our on,y tactics seem to be pass to grealish and hope he does something
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on February 22, 2020, 03:42:55 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 22, 2020, 03:33:50 PM
Nonsense absolute nonsense but hey anything to critise me for. Don’t see you critising others who also are slating smith

Because you're a stuck record who seems almost desperate to slag off half the team, the manager and most of the management of the club at any chance. Also because other people who have had enough do have good things to say about people and didn't appear and start slagging people off within their first few posts.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on February 22, 2020, 03:44:36 PM
i can’t have a go at other fans who are unhappy, I’m bloody unhappy
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on February 22, 2020, 03:49:35 PM
He’s not very good is he.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: richtheholtender on February 22, 2020, 03:50:56 PM
I just get the impression that he literally too nice.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan82 on February 22, 2020, 03:53:22 PM
I hate the B.S - laying traps etc.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 22, 2020, 03:54:00 PM
He's useless.  I truly hope we start a miracle turn round in the second half, we win 4-1 and I look like a twat, but somehow I doubt it.  Should have been sacked weeks ago.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Demitri_C on February 22, 2020, 03:56:16 PM
Quote from: paul_e on February 22, 2020, 03:42:55 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 22, 2020, 03:33:50 PM
Nonsense absolute nonsense but hey anything to critise me for. Don’t see you critising others who also are slating smith

Because you're a stuck record who seems almost desperate to slag off half the team, the manager and most of the management of the club at any chance. Also because other people who have had enough do have good things to say about people and didn't appear and start slagging people off within their first few posts.

Paul stop picking on every opinion i have. What have i said that others havent?? Your sitting here criticising  me for saying smiths not doing so good yet i dont see you questioning others who are saying similar things. So stop waffling

The facts are we have been shocking yet again away from home. Not even had a shot in 45 minutes.  He isnt good enough in my opinion.

He would have been sacked by now if we didnt give him a new deal as he is failing

He persists with 5 at the back which has been a utter failure. Playing luiz and nakamba which isnt working.  We look hopeless absolutely pathetic at times. Im not happy like many others. I want to see fight and these is none of that today like the first game at vp.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Demitri_C on February 22, 2020, 03:57:13 PM
For you paul


(https://i.ibb.co/BVhkGs1/IMG-20200222-WA0018.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BVhkGs1)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on February 22, 2020, 04:05:17 PM
You seem to think I'm saying we're playing well, I'm not, I just find it funny that the first person to sulk about poor performances and slag everyone off asked the question of how often we've heard a performance called dreadful. I'm singling you out because I can't recall you ever saying anything positive and often you post vile shit about our players, I think you need another hobby.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: richtheholtender on February 22, 2020, 04:05:32 PM
When you’re losing the possession stats and losing the fouls stats that indicates to me the other team wants it more.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on February 22, 2020, 04:10:41 PM
He needs a miracle such as winning the Cup next Sunday to get most of his critics back on side. He is the opposite of the dynamic, savvy, progressive coach we thought we were getting. Stubborn, myopic, turgid. Crap, essentially.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 22, 2020, 04:11:13 PM
He’s a lower league manager hugely out of his depth.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on February 22, 2020, 04:16:17 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on February 22, 2020, 04:10:41 PM
He needs a miracle such as winning the Cup next Sunday to get most of his critics back on side. He is the opposite of the dynamic, savvy, progressive coach we thought we were getting. Stubborn, myopic, turgid. Crap, essentially.

Maybe so, but I think his critics are a tiny minority at the moment.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on February 22, 2020, 04:19:08 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 22, 2020, 04:11:13 PM
He’s a lower league manager hugely out of his depth.

I second this statement and third it if need be
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Demitri_C on February 22, 2020, 04:24:57 PM
Quote from: paul_e on February 22, 2020, 04:05:17 PM
You seem to think I'm saying we're playing well, I'm not, I just find it funny that the first person to sulk about poor performances and slag everyone off asked the question of how often we've heard a performance called dreadful. I'm singling you out because I can't recall you ever saying anything positive and often you post vile shit about our players, I think you need another hobby.

No thanks villa till I did whether you like it or not
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on February 22, 2020, 04:34:21 PM
Quote from: Ad@m on February 22, 2020, 04:16:17 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on February 22, 2020, 04:10:41 PM
He needs a miracle such as winning the Cup next Sunday to get most of his critics back on side. He is the opposite of the dynamic, savvy, progressive coach we thought we were getting. Stubborn, myopic, turgid. Crap, essentially.

Maybe so, but I think his critics are a tiny minority at the moment.

but vocal and persistent.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Demitri_C on February 22, 2020, 04:51:50 PM
Quote from: paul_e on February 22, 2020, 04:34:21 PM
Quote from: Ad@m on February 22, 2020, 04:16:17 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on February 22, 2020, 04:10:41 PM
He needs a miracle such as winning the Cup next Sunday to get most of his critics back on side. He is the opposite of the dynamic, savvy, progressive coach we thought we were getting. Stubborn, myopic, turgid. Crap, essentially.

We entitled to be after this woeful performance and another nail in our relegation

Maybe so, but I think his critics are a tiny minority at the moment.

but vocal and persistent.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: London Villan on February 22, 2020, 04:52:44 PM
He isn’t crap. He just looks out of his depth.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Demitri_C on February 22, 2020, 04:54:26 PM
Quote from: London Villan on February 22, 2020, 04:52:44 PM
He isn’t crap. He just looks out of his depth.

Sorry mate he is crap at this level.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on February 22, 2020, 04:56:01 PM
Quote from: London Villan on February 22, 2020, 04:52:44 PM
He isn’t crap. He just looks out of his depth.

So, a crap Premier League manager then.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 22, 2020, 04:56:15 PM
Unacceptable again. Dean, do you and your coaches actually do/plan anything?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Monty on February 22, 2020, 04:56:50 PM
This was very not good.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TheMalandro on February 22, 2020, 04:57:17 PM
Chop, chop.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: andyh on February 22, 2020, 04:58:01 PM
Time to call it, I think
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan82 on February 22, 2020, 04:58:39 PM
I don't care about next weekend, I want this shite to stop.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on February 22, 2020, 04:59:10 PM
Honestly Demitri, I'd go and try something else.  You're getting close to responding to yourself on this thread you're posting so much.

It's just not worth getting that worked up about.  We've been relegated before, with a much worse squad, a worse manager, a worse owner, and it really wasn't that bad.

If you're not getting any enjoyment out of following the Villa (and there's no evidence on here to suggest you are) then you're better off trying something else with your time.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: David_Nab on February 22, 2020, 04:59:23 PM
Clueless tactically just stand on side of the pitch barking orders which have no effect on the game.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Demitri_C on February 22, 2020, 04:59:28 PM
Quote from: paul_e on February 22, 2020, 04:34:21 PM
Quote from: Ad@m on February 22, 2020, 04:16:17 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on February 22, 2020, 04:10:41 PM
He needs a miracle such as winning the Cup next Sunday to get most of his critics back on side. He is the opposite of the dynamic, savvy, progressive coach we thought we were getting. Stubborn, myopic, turgid. Crap, essentially.

Maybe so, but I think his critics are a tiny minority at the moment.

but vocal and persistent.

Come on then paul tell us why he should stay ??
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on February 22, 2020, 05:00:10 PM
He's never getting booted on the eve ofa cup final. It should have happened weeks and weeks ago. We will very likely get whacked next week and go down pathetically in the coming months.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on February 22, 2020, 05:01:18 PM
Get Big Sam in to keep us up by hook or by crook.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Jon Crofts on February 22, 2020, 05:01:40 PM
I’d sack him tonight, fuck next weekend, with Smith in charge we’re getting annihilated, he’s clueless, running on empty, zero ideas, full of shit, just fuck him off.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: itbrvilla on February 22, 2020, 05:03:57 PM
Quote from: Ad@m on February 22, 2020, 04:59:10 PM
Honestly Demitri, I'd go and try something else.  You're getting close to responding to yourself on this thread you're posting so much.

It's just not worth getting that worked up about.  We've been relegated before, with a much worse squad, a worse manager, a worse owner, and it really wasn't that bad.

If you're not getting any enjoyment out of following the Villa (and there's no evidence on here to suggest you are) then you're better off trying something else with your time.
given our situation we could end up getting a further points reduction.  I'm really not Rosey about going down as romantic as it was last season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Richard E on February 22, 2020, 05:05:12 PM
Smith should have been binned after we lost 3-0 to ten man Watford. He’s way out of his depth.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on February 22, 2020, 05:06:00 PM
Quote from: Damo70 on February 22, 2020, 05:01:18 PM
Get Big Sam in to keep us up by hook or by crook.

Thankfully it's you posting that so I know it's a windup!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on February 22, 2020, 05:06:02 PM
So disappointing, I thought we had finally somebody that deserved the title, Coach. Nice chap that he is, Villa fan too but sorry, he's way, way out of his depth. Obviously it doesn't help having a squad around you that would be more at home in the Championship. And yes, I see the irony.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on February 22, 2020, 05:06:16 PM
Quote from: Damo70 on February 22, 2020, 05:01:18 PM
Get Big Sam in to keep us up by hook or by crook.

We don't have the personnel for an Allardyce. No bruiser type up front and, I'm guessing, Kevin Nolan has probably retired.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave shelley on February 22, 2020, 05:07:03 PM
Much has been made about Dean Smith being one of our own and I firmly believe that he is.  As such, for the sake of the club and the position it finds itself in, he should do the honourable thing and resign with immediate effect.  As so many have said, he is so far out of his depth that he is drowning.  I'm sad to have had to write that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan82 on February 22, 2020, 05:07:34 PM
Quote from: Jon Crofts on February 22, 2020, 05:01:40 PM
I’d sack him tonight, fuck next weekend, with Smith in charge we’re getting annihilated, he’s clueless, running on empty, zero ideas, full of shit, just fuck him off.

Hear hear. Some clear thinking.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Demitri_C on February 22, 2020, 05:07:39 PM
Quote from: Ad@m on February 22, 2020, 04:59:10 PM
Honestly Demitri, I'd go and try something else.  You're getting close to responding to yourself on this thread you're posting so much.

It's just not worth getting that worked up about.  We've been relegated before, with a much worse squad, a worse manager, a worse owner, and it really wasn't that bad.

If you're not getting any enjoyment out of following the Villa (and there's no evidence on here to suggest you are) then you're better off trying something else with your time.

So im not allowed to be upset with team that i have supported for over 30 years when they eprform like that?

Its not just me posting so why you singling me out? Im sorry im not having a go at you mate. This situation we find ourself is hurting

You talk about relegatikn but this team has such huge potential with jack mcginn and mings. If we go down it could destroy our club


Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 22, 2020, 05:08:01 PM
Quote from: Richard E on February 22, 2020, 05:05:12 PM
Smith should have been binned after we lost 3-0 to ten man Watford. He’s way out of his depth.

Yep.  He should have been sacked then, and the fact that he wasn't shows that Purslow isn't up to the job either.  The signings have all been awful, the football is shit, and the results disastrous.  Pathetic all round.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on February 22, 2020, 05:08:01 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 22, 2020, 04:59:28 PM
Quote from: paul_e on February 22, 2020, 04:34:21 PM
Quote from: Ad@m on February 22, 2020, 04:16:17 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on February 22, 2020, 04:10:41 PM
He needs a miracle such as winning the Cup next Sunday to get most of his critics back on side. He is the opposite of the dynamic, savvy, progressive coach we thought we were getting. Stubborn, myopic, turgid. Crap, essentially.

Maybe so, but I think his critics are a tiny minority at the moment.

but vocal and persistent.

Come on then paul tell us why he should stay ??

because it's a week before a cup final and the only managers we could get in the meantime are the sort of shit I want nothing to do with. You're still missing the point though, I wasn't defending Smith, I was telling you to give it a fucking rest.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: passport1 on February 22, 2020, 05:09:05 PM
Quote from: David_Nab on February 22, 2020, 04:59:23 PM
Clueless tactically just stand on side of the pitch barking orders which have no effect on the game.

All I could hear today was him repeatedly  screaming "what the fuck is going on?". Truly inspirational. Mind you most supporters are wondering exactly that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: colin69 on February 22, 2020, 05:09:07 PM
Did a cracking job last year but it’s come to an end hasn’t it?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Richard E on February 22, 2020, 05:10:39 PM


Edited - probably fake news.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on February 22, 2020, 05:11:35 PM
Quote from: itbrvilla on February 22, 2020, 05:03:57 PM
Quote from: Ad@m on February 22, 2020, 04:59:10 PM
Honestly Demitri, I'd go and try something else.  You're getting close to responding to yourself on this thread you're posting so much.

It's just not worth getting that worked up about.  We've been relegated before, with a much worse squad, a worse manager, a worse owner, and it really wasn't that bad.

If you're not getting any enjoyment out of following the Villa (and there's no evidence on here to suggest you are) then you're better off trying something else with your time.
given our situation we could end up getting a further points reduction.  I'm really not Rosey about going down as romantic as it was last season.

We won't.  If we go down, Grealish will go and give us a huge profit to book in the FFP calcs.  The fact we've spent a year in the Prem will increase the level of FFP losses we're allowed, and we'll get another (up to) three years of parachute payments.

The rest of the squad should remain - Mings and SJM are the only ones likely to be tempted to leave but McGinn's injury might dampen some of the demand and I genuinely believe Mings has a real affinity for the club so will give us the season to get promoted again.

The new owners seem to be in it for the long haul, going about building the club in the right way, from the youth team, to Bodymoor, and creating an identity which we haven't had for years.  Smith is clearly core to that so he's going nowhere.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Monty on February 22, 2020, 05:11:44 PM
I like him, I can't get personal or angry at him in the way one should with the Sherwoods of the world, but he is so clearly out of his depth.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Demitri_C on February 22, 2020, 05:12:24 PM
Quote from: paul_e on February 22, 2020, 05:08:01 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 22, 2020, 04:59:28 PM
Quote from: paul_e on February 22, 2020, 04:34:21 PM
Quote from: Ad@m on February 22, 2020, 04:16:17 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on February 22, 2020, 04:10:41 PM
He needs a miracle such as winning the Cup next Sunday to get most of his critics back on side. He is the opposite of the dynamic, savvy, progressive coach we thought we were getting. Stubborn, myopic, turgid. Crap, essentially.

Maybe so, but I think his critics are a tiny minority at the moment.

but vocal and persistent.

Come on then paul tell us why he should stay ??

because it's a week before a cup final and the only managers we could get in the meantime are the sort of shit I want nothing to do with. You're still missing the point though, I wasn't defending Smith, I was telling you to give it a fucking rest.

Give what a rest ? You going to tell everyone else who is calling for smith out to give it a rwst or just me ?

Of course you won't just pick on Demitri.  This is a public forum where i am allowed to express my opinion if you hadn't realised.

As for your point id rather lose next week and stay up. Of that msans binning smith i am all for it. It is a shame but he clearly is out of his depth.

There is no passion fight urgency and defensively a complete and utter shit show.

I wish him all the best and thank him for wveything but he is taking us down if we stick with him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: walsall villain on February 22, 2020, 05:13:36 PM
 Vital game and yet again it’s like shots in. Love what you’ve done Dean but it’s time for a change. We need to be organised and hard to play against which you can’t seem to do that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on February 22, 2020, 05:13:44 PM
Quote from: Ad@m on February 22, 2020, 05:11:35 PM
The new owners seem to be in it for the long haul, going about building the club in the right way, from the youth team, to Bodymoor, and creating an identity which we haven't had for years.  Smith is clearly core to that so he's going nowhere.
This kind of stuff is straight out of the prospectus though.  What is the long haul?  What is the right way?  What identity are we trying to create?  Why is Smith core to that if he's not good enough?  It's all jam tomorrow bullshit.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: BlackCountryVilla on February 22, 2020, 05:14:09 PM
The guy is one of our own. Yes he hasn't been the breath of fresh air we all hoped we would be.
We all know that the end is nigh for him.
But he is a Villa bloke and he should lead his boyhood club out at Wembley next week. We would all give anything to do it and we shouldn't deny him that.
We all owe him that at the very least for promotion.
After that who knows?
I like him as a person but he looks out of his depth now.
Keep the faith..
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on February 22, 2020, 05:14:26 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 22, 2020, 05:07:39 PM
Quote from: Ad@m on February 22, 2020, 04:59:10 PM
Honestly Demitri, I'd go and try something else.  You're getting close to responding to yourself on this thread you're posting so much.

It's just not worth getting that worked up about.  We've been relegated before, with a much worse squad, a worse manager, a worse owner, and it really wasn't that bad.

If you're not getting any enjoyment out of following the Villa (and there's no evidence on here to suggest you are) then you're better off trying something else with your time.

So im not allowed to be upset with team that i have supported for over 30 years when they eprform like that?

Its not just me posting so why you singling me out? Im sorry im not having a go at you mate. This situation we find ourself is hurting

You talk about relegatikn but this team has such huge potential with jack mcginn and mings. If we go down it could destroy our club

Of course you're allowed to be upset after a poor result - my concern is more that you don't seem to be happy after a good one.

If a hobby only ever makes you sad it's time to try something else.  Life's too short.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Demitri_C on February 22, 2020, 05:15:20 PM
Quote from: Ad@m on February 22, 2020, 05:11:35 PM
Quote from: itbrvilla on February 22, 2020, 05:03:57 PM
Quote from: Ad@m on February 22, 2020, 04:59:10 PM
Honestly Demitri, I'd go and try something else.  You're getting close to responding to yourself on this thread you're posting so much.

It's just not worth getting that worked up about.  We've been relegated before, with a much worse squad, a worse manager, a worse owner, and it really wasn't that bad.

If you're not getting any enjoyment out of following the Villa (and there's no evidence on here to suggest you are) then you're better off trying something else with your time.
given our situation we could end up getting a further points reduction.  I'm really not Rosey about going down as romantic as it was last season.

We won't.  If we go down, Grealish will go and give us a huge profit to book in the FFP calcs.  The fact we've spent a year in the Prem will increase the level of FFP losses we're allowed, and we'll get another (up to) three years of parachute payments.

The rest of the squad should remain - Mings and SJM are the only ones likely to be tempted to leave but McGinn's injury might dampen some of the demand and I genuinely believe Mings has a real affinity for the club so will give us the season to get promoted again.

The new owners seem to be in it for the long haul, going about building the club in the right way, from the youth team, to Bodymoor, and creating an identity which we haven't had for years.  Smith is clearly core to that so he's going nowhere.

Mate there is no way mongs is staying. He is a england player now.he wont be chosen by southgate in championship.

Do you trust smith to spend the money anyway when we wasted it on players like wesley trez and that wimp AEG ( who was a disgrace by the way) for the way he acted?

Im sorry but i am very concerned to keep smith on should we go down
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: levico on February 22, 2020, 05:15:39 PM
A depressing opinion but I don’t think he’s going anywhere. Difficult to know what’s going through the mind of our owners but I think he earned many brownie points by last seasons heroics.

They’ll think again when we go down, lose our best players and £millions of TV revenue and get a points deduction in the Championship.

Sunderland anyone.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ez on February 22, 2020, 05:16:29 PM
I think it's obvious he's going nowhere. Could have lost 8-0 and he wouldn't be potted.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: andyh on February 22, 2020, 05:16:43 PM
He needs to go now while the fans still appreciate what he has accomplished, rather than when the real vitriol kicks in.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on February 22, 2020, 05:17:12 PM
I don't care if he is one of our own or not, that was a disgusting fucking mess out there today.

AGAIN playing a shape and personnel that doesn't work. Waiting too long to change anything. What the hell is he doing?

He deserves the sack, right now, and it's all entirely his fault.

Look how piss poor we are.

We've just taken zero points from nine, including two matches away to shit teams of the type we HAVE to beat.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on February 22, 2020, 05:17:31 PM
I think it's a bit of a perfect storm season, inexperienced manager, inexperienced squad, VAR coming in and causing us a lot of problems, most of the big sides having a shit season so there's a lot more points going to the bottom half of the league than normal.

I don't blame Smith entirely, I think for every game like today there's been games where we've been the better side and fucked up on the field.

That said something does need to change, I wouldn't do it before the final, I think Smith deserves the chance to get a trophy but I'd certainly be looking at the options.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Demitri_C on February 22, 2020, 05:18:06 PM
Quote from: Ad@m on February 22, 2020, 05:14:26 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 22, 2020, 05:07:39 PM
Quote from: Ad@m on February 22, 2020, 04:59:10 PM
Honestly Demitri, I'd go and try something else.  You're getting close to responding to yourself on this thread you're posting so much.

It's just not worth getting that worked up about.  We've been relegated before, with a much worse squad, a worse manager, a worse owner, and it really wasn't that bad.

If you're not getting any enjoyment out of following the Villa (and there's no evidence on here to suggest you are) then you're better off trying something else with your time.

So im not allowed to be upset with team that i have supported for over 30 years when they eprform like that?

Its not just me posting so why you singling me out? Im sorry im not having a go at you mate. This situation we find ourself is hurting

You talk about relegatikn but this team has such huge potential with jack mcginn and mings. If we go down it could destroy our club


Of course you're allowed to be upset after a poor result - my concern is more that you don't seem to be happy after a good one.

If a hobby only ever makes you sad it's time to try something else.  Life's too short.

Its not life or death for me but come on do you not get hurt seeing your club go through this again? That relegation almost killed us and we look like we have to go through it again next year.

Im not giving up on the club.

There are various posters on here that know me personally and know that when villa are doing well  i am one happy SOB!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 22, 2020, 05:19:22 PM
It’s not about being relegated or not, not really. If we were showing clear signs of a game plan and progress, but being unlucky and coming up short that’d be ok. But we’re not we’re getting worse by the week and there’s no sense of cohesion, or even team spirit. That’s sadly why Dean should go.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on February 22, 2020, 05:19:59 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on February 22, 2020, 05:13:44 PM
Quote from: Ad@m on February 22, 2020, 05:11:35 PM
The new owners seem to be in it for the long haul, going about building the club in the right way, from the youth team, to Bodymoor, and creating an identity which we haven't had for years.  Smith is clearly core to that so he's going nowhere.
This kind of stuff is straight out of the prospectus though.  What is the long haul?  What is the right way?  What identity are we trying to create?  Why is Smith core to that if he's not good enough?  It's all jam tomorrow bullshit.

Look at the list of managers we've had since the 90s - GT, O'Leary, MON, Houllier, TSM, Lambert, RDM, Garde, Bruce.  Literally no pattern to them, no rhyme or reason why one should follow the last.  Every time we're starting from scratch.

Like it or not, FFP protects the clubs who are already successful so we can't buy our way to the top, we have to build our way there, sustainably and sustainability does not involve binning a manager who got us promoted six months ago and starting again.

We all knew Smith was making a massive step up when he joined us and he's learning his way, just like most of the squad.  From where we are now, getting relegated won't be the end of the world, so we shouldn't tear up the strategy simply to gamble on avoiding it.  Stick to the plan and as long as the plan is a good one, we'll be much better off in the long run.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on February 22, 2020, 05:24:38 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 22, 2020, 05:18:06 PM
Quote from: Ad@m on February 22, 2020, 05:14:26 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 22, 2020, 05:07:39 PM
Quote from: Ad@m on February 22, 2020, 04:59:10 PM
Honestly Demitri, I'd go and try something else.  You're getting close to responding to yourself on this thread you're posting so much.

It's just not worth getting that worked up about.  We've been relegated before, with a much worse squad, a worse manager, a worse owner, and it really wasn't that bad.

If you're not getting any enjoyment out of following the Villa (and there's no evidence on here to suggest you are) then you're better off trying something else with your time.

So im not allowed to be upset with team that i have supported for over 30 years when they eprform like that?

Its not just me posting so why you singling me out? Im sorry im not having a go at you mate. This situation we find ourself is hurting

You talk about relegatikn but this team has such huge potential with jack mcginn and mings. If we go down it could destroy our club


Of course you're allowed to be upset after a poor result - my concern is more that you don't seem to be happy after a good one.

If a hobby only ever makes you sad it's time to try something else.  Life's too short.

Its not life or death for me but come on do you not get hurt seeing your club go through this again? That relegation almost killed us and we look like we have to go through it again next year.

Im not giving up on the club.

There are various posters on here that know me personally and know that when villa are doing well  i am one happy SOB!

That relegation didn't nearly kill us.  Dr Tone and his shambolic ownership nearly killed us.

After the Lambert years, the last 3 seasons have been some of the most enjoyable we've had at the Villa in years.  If it happens again, we'll go in to next season with a better squad, better finances, a manager who got us promoted against the odds last time, and we'll absolutely piss it!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: geolex on February 22, 2020, 05:24:43 PM
Quote from: Ad@m on February 22, 2020, 05:11:35 PM
Quote from: itbrvilla on February 22, 2020, 05:03:57 PM
Quote from: Ad@m on February 22, 2020, 04:59:10 PM
Honestly Demitri, I'd go and try something else.  You're getting close to responding to yourself on this thread you're posting so much.

It's just not worth getting that worked up about.  We've been relegated before, with a much worse squad, a worse manager, a worse owner, and it really wasn't that bad.

If you're not getting any enjoyment out of following the Villa (and there's no evidence on here to suggest you are) then you're better off trying something else with your time.
given our situation we could end up getting a further points reduction.  I'm really not Rosey about going down as romantic as it was last season.

We won't.  If we go down, Grealish will go and give us a huge profit to book in the FFP calcs.  The fact we've spent a year in the Prem will increase the level of FFP losses we're allowed, and we'll get another (up to) three years of parachute payments.

The rest of the squad should remain - Mings and SJM are the only ones likely to be tempted to leave but McGinn's injury might dampen some of the demand and I genuinely believe Mings has a real affinity for the club so will give us the season to get promoted again.

The new owners seem to be in it for the long haul, going about building the club in the right way, from the youth team, to Bodymoor, and creating an identity which we haven't had for years.  Smith is clearly core to that so he's going nowhere.

And thats a positive?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 22, 2020, 05:24:50 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on February 22, 2020, 05:17:12 PM
I don't care if he is one of our own or not, that was a disgusting fucking mess out there today.

AGAIN playing a shape and personnel that doesn't work. Waiting too long to change anything. What the hell is he doing?

He deserves the sack, right now, and it's all entirely his fault.

Look how piss poor we are.

We've just taken zero points from nine, including two matches away to shit teams of the type we HAVE to beat.

Yep it’s utterly disjointed thinking. Hause is a prime example. Smith likes to play possession football, but he has a centre half who cannot pass at all. He then substitutes a right footed centre half and has Hause, who is left footed, on the right and is unsurprisingly even worse.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Jon Crofts on February 22, 2020, 05:25:23 PM
Some vitriol also needs directing at Terry, worst defence in the PL, that takes some doing.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on February 22, 2020, 05:26:26 PM
I'm sorry but that's just more vagueness with no specifics at all.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on February 22, 2020, 05:27:11 PM
I don’t especially mean this as an insult to either but dean is the managerial version of Hourihane. Good in some extremely limited areas, is enough to make him stand out against meat and potatoes championship opposition, but wildly out of his depth in the PL. It would have been great if he’d stepped up but he hasn’t and he’s had as much of a chance as anyone might reasonably have expected.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Holy Trinity on February 22, 2020, 05:32:52 PM
I said months and months ago Dean dont have what it takes in the prem and I said when we didnt sack him I would stand behind him but I cant any longer!

Dean out thanks for the memories try and win the cup for us next week and grab your p45 on the way out of Wembley. This squad is not even close to the worst squad in the league but we have the worst manager in the league by a comfortable margin.  Even bruce would have this squad comfortably mid table and hes a plonker too
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TheMalandro on February 22, 2020, 05:36:09 PM
One thing I didn't expect this season - to be almost as bad as the last Villa team in this division.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Jon Crofts on February 22, 2020, 05:39:50 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on February 22, 2020, 05:26:26 PM
I'm sorry but that's just more vagueness with no specifics at all.



52 goals conceded is the most in the PL. I’d say that makes us the worst defence in the PL wouldn’t you?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on February 22, 2020, 05:41:08 PM
Quote from: TheMalandro on February 22, 2020, 05:36:09 PM
One thing I didn't expect this season - to be almost as bad as the last Villa team in this division.

Christ alive!  Don't be so melodramatic.

We won 3 games that season.  We've more than doubled that 2/3rds of the way through this season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dave P on February 22, 2020, 05:41:11 PM
We all understand that if Smith is sacked, that John Terry will take over don’t we?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 22, 2020, 05:42:23 PM
I said in the match thread, but the fact that a team with Mings and Grealish in it is doing quite so badly is a really terrible indictment of the entire management team, from the idiot in Pitarch making the signings, to the dismal non entity of a manager attempting and failing to organise the team.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TheMalandro on February 22, 2020, 05:44:20 PM
Quote from: Ad@m on February 22, 2020, 05:41:08 PM
Quote from: TheMalandro on February 22, 2020, 05:36:09 PM
One thing I didn't expect this season - to be almost as bad as the last Villa team in this division.

Christ alive!  Don't be so melodramatic.

We won 3 games that season.  We've more than doubled that 2/3rds of the way through this season.

I'm talking about the performances.

I don't see much difference.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 22, 2020, 05:44:38 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 22, 2020, 05:42:23 PM
I said in the match thread, but the fact that a team with Mings and Grealish in it is doing quite so badly is a really terrible indictment of the entire management team, from the idiot in Pitarch making the signings, to the dismal non entity of a manager attempting and failing to organise the team.

Yes you can see what a good manager can do. Chris Wilder has made Basham look like a Premier League player.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tomd2103 on February 22, 2020, 05:45:14 PM
Quote from: Ad@m on February 22, 2020, 05:19:59 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on February 22, 2020, 05:13:44 PM
Quote from: Ad@m on February 22, 2020, 05:11:35 PM
The new owners seem to be in it for the long haul, going about building the club in the right way, from the youth team, to Bodymoor, and creating an identity which we haven't had for years.  Smith is clearly core to that so he's going nowhere.
This kind of stuff is straight out of the prospectus though.  What is the long haul?  What is the right way?  What identity are we trying to create?  Why is Smith core to that if he's not good enough?  It's all jam tomorrow bullshit.

Look at the list of managers we've had since the 90s - GT, O'Leary, MON, Houllier, TSM, Lambert, RDM, Garde, Bruce.  Literally no pattern to them, no rhyme or reason why one should follow the last.  Every time we're starting from scratch.

Like it or not, FFP protects the clubs who are already successful so we can't buy our way to the top, we have to build our way there, sustainably and sustainability does not involve binning a manager who got us promoted six months ago and starting again.

We all knew Smith was making a massive step up when he joined us and he's learning his way, just like most of the squad.  From where we are now, getting relegated won't be the end of the world, so we shouldn't tear up the strategy simply to gamble on avoiding it.  Stick to the plan and as long as the plan is a good one, we'll be much better off in the long run.

Have to disagree Adam.  Relegation would be a huge set back and I honestly believe that with the inevitable fire sale that would follow with the likes of Grealish, McGinn and Mings going, we would be looking at another extended spell in the Championship. 

Considering that and after watching that today, I think there is more than a good case to call for a change of manager.  I like Dean Smith and really want him to succeed, but there have just been too many of those kind of performances and the coaching staff just look out of ideas. 

He deserves the chance to lead the team out at Wembley next weekend, but time and patience are running out.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 22, 2020, 05:47:10 PM
How on earth is the plan a good one?  Buy shit players, and coach them badly.  Yeah, let's stick with that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Demitri_C on February 22, 2020, 05:47:24 PM
Quote from: Ad@m on February 22, 2020, 05:24:38 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 22, 2020, 05:18:06 PM
Quote from: Ad@m on February 22, 2020, 05:14:26 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 22, 2020, 05:07:39 PM
Quote from: Ad@m on February 22, 2020, 04:59:10 PM
Honestly Demitri, I'd go and try something else.  You're getting close to responding to yourself on this thread you're posting so much.

It's just not worth getting that worked up about.  We've been relegated before, with a much worse squad, a worse manager, a worse owner, and it really wasn't that bad.

If you're not getting any enjoyment out of following the Villa (and there's no evidence on here to suggest you are) then you're better off trying something else with your time.

So im not allowed to be upset with team that i have supported for over 30 years when they eprform like that?

Its not just me posting so why you singling me out? Im sorry im not having a go at you mate. This situation we find ourself is hurting

You talk about relegatikn but this team has such huge potential with jack mcginn and mings. If we go down it could destroy our club


Of course you're allowed to be upset after a poor result - my concern is more that you don't seem to be happy after a good one.

If a hobby only ever makes you sad it's time to try something else.  Life's too short.

Its not life or death for me but come on do you not get hurt seeing your club go through this again? That relegation almost killed us and we look like we have to go through it again next year.

Im not giving up on the club.

There are various posters on here that know me personally and know that when villa are doing well  i am one happy SOB!

That relegation didn't nearly kill us.  Dr Tone and his shambolic ownership nearly killed us.

After the Lambert years, the last 3 seasons have been some of the most enjoyable we've had at the Villa in years.  If it happens again, we'll go in to next season with a better squad, better finances, a manager who got us promoted against the odds last time, and we'll absolutely piss it!

I think of we go down. If the  superthree go on. We need to bin trezeguet drinkwater elmo and lansbury.

Keep samatta and wes as i think at chanoiknship level they will score lots. Keep nakamba and luiz, targett konsa and guilbert as they will solod in championship.

Then we need to add leaders to this team as  barring the keeprrs we dont have any.

The worst thing about going down is that we will likely play fucking Coventry

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Demitri_C on February 22, 2020, 05:50:53 PM
Quote from: Jon Crofts on February 22, 2020, 05:39:50 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on February 22, 2020, 05:26:26 PM
I'm sorry but that's just more vagueness with no specifics at all.



52 goals conceded is the most in the PL. I’d say that makes us the worst defence in the PL wouldn’t you?

And that defence cost over 40m to assmble. They thing is they are not bad players he just haa no idea how to setup a defence.  It wss the same when he had brentford in the championship.

Difference is in championship you dont have to be great defensively. At pl you cant get away with it as we are finding out
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aldridgeboy on February 22, 2020, 05:54:18 PM

(https://i.ibb.co/fQBCn2n/98-FD7810-EED2-4-D45-90-FC-4666-B48406-A3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fQBCn2n)


That can’t be good
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AlexAlexCropley on February 22, 2020, 05:55:00 PM
Quote from: aldridgeboy on February 22, 2020, 05:54:18 PM

(https://i.ibb.co/CbWFyw6/116-A9-B4-C-2-E35-4953-B5-E8-94-D348-B2-D91-D.jpg) (https://ibb.co/CbWFyw6)


That can’t be good
Fake news.Keep up
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aldridgeboy on February 22, 2020, 05:56:34 PM
Oh well good. Seemed a decent source really, a strange thing to make up. But glad it’s not real!!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VillaBoy_23 on February 22, 2020, 05:59:58 PM
Quote from: Ad@m on February 22, 2020, 05:41:08 PM
Quote from: TheMalandro on February 22, 2020, 05:36:09 PM
One thing I didn't expect this season - to be almost as bad as the last Villa team in this division.

Christ alive!  Don't be so melodramatic.

We won 3 games that season.  We've more than doubled that 2/3rds of the way through this season.

Today was as bad as anything seen in 15/16
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 22, 2020, 06:00:15 PM
Smith in his post-match excuse-fest is blaming the players, and saying that several have played their way out of Wembley contention.  Also says the players' mentality doesn't match his.

Dead man walking.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: colin69 on February 22, 2020, 06:01:24 PM
How easy is it to sneak a cabbage into Wembley?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on February 22, 2020, 06:02:38 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/zFw66k5/01e.jpg)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: nevillain on February 22, 2020, 06:03:07 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 22, 2020, 06:00:15 PM
Smith in his post-match excuse-fest is blaming the players, and saying that several have played their way out of Wembley contention.  Also says the players' mentality doesn't match his.

Dead man walking.

Beginning to look like it
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on February 22, 2020, 06:03:08 PM
He shouldn’t have got past January. It wasn’t justified or fair or smart to keep him on.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on February 22, 2020, 06:05:14 PM
There's still 33 points to play for but Smith just isn't getting anywhere the best out of his players.  I know most of them are, at best, average at this level but they're not even achieving that at the moment.  Even a couple of new manager bounce wins could make the difference.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on February 22, 2020, 06:06:33 PM
From hero to zero in just 9 months ........but so predictable
The guy talks a good game but that's about it
I think the owners have shown some naivety in thinking a manager without premier league experience would have the nous to get us the points tally we need to stay up - having said that I guess it's worked for Burnley, Saints and Sheffield Utd - but they seem to have players who are willing to fight for survival - it's all a bit of a disappointment and I fear relegation will have huge ramifications for our future
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 22, 2020, 06:09:12 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on February 22, 2020, 06:02:38 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/zFw66k5/01e.jpg)

It’s not just fight though Dean. It’s the utter blindness to clear tactical deficiencies.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 22, 2020, 06:10:24 PM
And we almost certainly will play that badly again. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: colin69 on February 22, 2020, 06:12:43 PM
If the players showed some fight and got relegated I could forgive them, but to show nothing (especially away) is unforgivable. Smith simply cannot motivate them.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VillaAlways on February 22, 2020, 06:12:44 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on February 22, 2020, 06:09:12 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on February 22, 2020, 06:02:38 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/zFw66k5/01e.jpg)

It’s not just fight though Dean. It’s the utter blindness to clear tactical deficiencies.
It’s all very Brucesesque He may  as well have said all I ask is they roll up their sleeves.....
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan82 on February 22, 2020, 06:13:22 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on February 22, 2020, 06:06:33 PM
From hero to zero in just 9 months ........but so predictable
The guy talks a good game but that's about it
I think the owners have shown some naivety in thinking a manager without premier league experience would have the nous to get us the points tally we need to stay up - having said that I guess it's worked for Burnley, Saints and Sheffield Utd - but they seem to have players who are willing to fight for survival - it's all a bit of a disappointment and I fear relegation will have huge ramifications for our future

Does he talk a good game? He talks a lot of bollocks in my opinion.The alarm bells ring anytime I hear him talk about traps.It reminds me of his 'other teams fear us' quote that bit us on the arse back in December 2018. See his comments about Southampton in the build up to this game.

He should have gone in December and I am starting to really dislike him now (which I hoped wouldn't happen).
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: DB on February 22, 2020, 06:13:56 PM
Quote from: themossman on February 22, 2020, 06:03:08 PM
He shouldn’t have got past January. It wasn’t justified or fair or smart to keep him on.

Before Christmas
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Demitri_C on February 22, 2020, 06:15:05 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 22, 2020, 06:00:15 PM
Smith in his post-match excuse-fest is blaming the players, and saying that several have played their way out of Wembley contention.  Also says the players' mentality doesn't match his.

Dead man walking.
.tbf though he is right. Im  criticising him but he makes some points. Some of them shod not be starting next week as they were utter shit

But he has tk take responsibility playing 5 at the back is utter shit.its been a utter failure
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on February 22, 2020, 06:17:59 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 22, 2020, 06:15:05 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 22, 2020, 06:00:15 PM
Smith in his post-match excuse-fest is blaming the players, and saying that several have played their way out of Wembley contention.  Also says the players' mentality doesn't match his.

Dead man walking.
.tbf though he is right. Im  criticising him but he makes some points. Some of them shod not be starting next week as they were utter shit

But he has tk take responsibility playing 5 at the back is utter shit.its been a utter failure

The sad thing is, we have almost nothing on the bench to bring in to improve matters.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: gpbarr on February 22, 2020, 06:19:25 PM
He should have been fired by now - the fact he hasn’t means more blame should start being apportioned to Purslow (what the fuck is he doing?!).

And the players - don’t get me started - the only thing they could do to remedy today would be to club their weekly salary together and refund the supporters who braved that shower of shit today.

Complete disgrace - Purslow, Smith, and each of the players
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john2710 on February 22, 2020, 06:20:08 PM
He changed formation & pulled out a result against Burnley, which kept him in his job.

Five at the back is OK if you play 2 up front. We've just taken a man out of midfield & stuck him in defence.

Fuck the wingers off & let Grealish play wherever he wants. But ultimately the majority of our team are not good enough.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Demitri_C on February 22, 2020, 06:23:32 PM
Quote from: Newby on February 22, 2020, 06:17:59 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 22, 2020, 06:15:05 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 22, 2020, 06:00:15 PM
Smith in his post-match excuse-fest is blaming the players, and saying that several have played their way out of Wembley contention.  Also says the players' mentality doesn't match his.

Dead man walking.
.tbf though he is right. Im  criticising him but he makes some points. Some of them shod not be starting next week as they were utter shit

But he has tk take responsibility playing 5 at the back is utter shit.its been a utter failure

The sad thing is, we have almost nothing on the bench to bring in to improve matters.

Valid point although i would certianky drop luiz fir the final he was dreadfully poor as was hause. Have a feeling guilbert might get dropped for elmo also.

For me next week he has to  go go with a back four of targett mings konsa and elmo.

Cm nakamba conor and id even be tempted to play lansbury.

Trez was so woeful i dont even want hkm starting but who else we got

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Richard E on February 22, 2020, 06:25:47 PM
Trez has been woeful all season, he’s just a headless chicken.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ez on February 22, 2020, 06:27:34 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 22, 2020, 06:00:15 PM
Smith in his post-match excuse-fest is blaming the players, and saying that several have played their way out of Wembley contention.  Also says the players' mentality doesn't match his.

Dead man walking.

Well he couldn't blame the officials this week, and he's not going to blame himself, so he had to throw the players under the bus today.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on February 22, 2020, 06:31:46 PM
Quote from: ez on February 22, 2020, 06:27:34 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 22, 2020, 06:00:15 PM
Smith in his post-match excuse-fest is blaming the players, and saying that several have played their way out of Wembley contention.  Also says the players' mentality doesn't match his.

Dead man walking.

Well he couldn't blame the officials this week, and he's not going to blame himself, so he had to throw the players under the bus today.

Well he should take some responsibility
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on February 22, 2020, 06:35:19 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 22, 2020, 06:23:32 PM
Quote from: Newby on February 22, 2020, 06:17:59 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 22, 2020, 06:15:05 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 22, 2020, 06:00:15 PM
Smith in his post-match excuse-fest is blaming the players, and saying that several have played their way out of Wembley contention.  Also says the players' mentality doesn't match his.

Dead man walking.
.tbf though he is right. Im  criticising him but he makes some points. Some of them shod not be starting next week as they were utter shit

But he has tk take responsibility playing 5 at the back is utter shit.its been a utter failure

The sad thing is, we have almost nothing on the bench to bring in to improve matters.

Valid point although i would certianky drop luiz fir the final he was dreadfully poor as was hause. Have a feeling guilbert might get dropped for elmo also.

For me next week he has to  go go with a back four of targett mings konsa and elmo.

Cm nakamba conor and id even be tempted to play lansbury.

Trez was so woeful i dont even want hkm starting but who else we got



Demitri, we play that side, we lose 6-1 again.  We didn't address the issues in the window and I think Purslow is too loyal to Smith as he brought us up and had to change the squad so much. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ozzjim on February 22, 2020, 06:35:37 PM
Def dead man walking. Once you chuck the players under the bus like that, you are done. It's the last throw of the dice to get a reaction.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: itbrvilla on February 22, 2020, 06:36:08 PM
Quote from: Richard E on February 22, 2020, 06:25:47 PM
Trez has been woeful all season, he’s just a headless chicken.
Absolutely shit. Worst of all the new signings.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: andyh on February 22, 2020, 06:42:04 PM
Quote from: Richard E on February 22, 2020, 06:25:47 PM
Trez has been woeful all season, he’s just a headless chicken.
To be fair, he will probably cause problems in the championship.
But he’s fucking shit in the prem.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 22, 2020, 06:42:38 PM
I worry that our Execs might have got into the space where they think continuity will deliver results. I’m sadly convinced that it won’t, because there’s no suggestion of any hope of improvement. Dean doesn’t have a plan, or at least he can’t implement it if he does. He also appears to have lost his players. It should be time to part ways.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Jon Crofts on February 22, 2020, 06:45:03 PM
Quote from: itbrvilla on February 22, 2020, 06:36:08 PM
Quote from: Richard E on February 22, 2020, 06:25:47 PM
Trez has been woeful all season, he’s just a headless chicken.
Absolutely shit. Worst of all the new signings.

There’s a huge range to choose from, he’s not the worst, where do you start? Wesley, Trez, Luiz, Nakamba, Konsa, Hause, Jota. Christ we’ve bought some shit.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on February 22, 2020, 06:46:24 PM
For top dollar Jon.  For top dollar.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: andyh on February 22, 2020, 06:46:54 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 22, 2020, 06:23:32 PM
Quote from: Newby on February 22, 2020, 06:17:59 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 22, 2020, 06:15:05 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 22, 2020, 06:00:15 PM
Smith in his post-match excuse-fest is blaming the players, and saying that several have played their way out of Wembley contention.  Also says the players' mentality doesn't match his.

Dead man walking.
.tbf though he is right. Im  criticising him but he makes some points. Some of them shod not be starting next week as they were utter shit

But he has tk take responsibility playing 5 at the back is utter shit.its been a utter failure

The sad thing is, we have almost nothing on the bench to bring in to improve matters.

Valid point although i would certianky drop luiz fir the final he was dreadfully poor as was hause. Have a feeling guilbert might get dropped for elmo also.

For me next week he has to  go go with a back four of targett mings konsa and elmo.

Cm nakamba conor and id even be tempted to play lansbury.

Trez was so woeful i dont even want hkm starting but who else we got


Anyone who considers Lansbury as someone who should be in the squad, let alone start, really doesn’t have much of a grip on the game.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on February 22, 2020, 06:47:30 PM
Quote from: andyh on February 22, 2020, 06:46:54 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 22, 2020, 06:23:32 PM
Quote from: Newby on February 22, 2020, 06:17:59 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 22, 2020, 06:15:05 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 22, 2020, 06:00:15 PM
Smith in his post-match excuse-fest is blaming the players, and saying that several have played their way out of Wembley contention.  Also says the players' mentality doesn't match his.

Dead man walking.
.tbf though he is right. Im  criticising him but he makes some points. Some of them shod not be starting next week as they were utter shit

But he has tk take responsibility playing 5 at the back is utter shit.its been a utter failure

The sad thing is, we have almost nothing on the bench to bring in to improve matters.

Valid point although i would certianky drop luiz fir the final he was dreadfully poor as was hause. Have a feeling guilbert might get dropped for elmo also.

For me next week he has to  go go with a back four of targett mings konsa and elmo.

Cm nakamba conor and id even be tempted to play lansbury.

Trez was so woeful i dont even want hkm starting but who else we got


Anyone who considers Lansbury as someone who should be in the squad, let alone start, really doesn’t have much of a grip on the game.

Or reality.

There's no point with Lansbury, even if he did come in and do OK, he'd be out again almost immediately with a hair injury or a vagina strain.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 22, 2020, 06:50:20 PM
Haha! Thank you for the lol Paulie.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: richtheholtender on February 22, 2020, 06:54:37 PM
I still like him and he definitely cares about the club. He has also done a lot for us and anyone who thinks it would have been easy to just spend a load of money and gel a team is mistaken. If he could keep us then I have no doubts whatsoever that a lot of these players with be better and the others moved on. My concern is he just doesn’t seem to change anything or if he does it’s too late. I’d also like to see a lot more fight instead, not only in the performances of the team but we other instances such as the VAR decisions, we just readily come out with “we just have to accept them and move on”. That said, we’ve always been a soft touch.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VillaBoy_23 on February 22, 2020, 07:01:10 PM
I desperately want smith to succeed more than any other manager I’ve seen us have but I don’t see how you can come back from calling your own team a disgrace (they were) on national tv.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on February 22, 2020, 07:10:23 PM
i know someone will point out that we got past Leicester over two legs, however, watching Leicester and the energy about Vardy, putting everything into his game, bar Grealish, there is nothing like that in the rest of our team.

We've got the most pedestrian, one-paced midfield I have seen in years, and to make things worse, they're unable to complete five yard passes.

That total lack of energy and drive is down to the manager, I'm afraid. I saw his comments post match and it's like he was pointing and saying "their fault" when, actually, it's largely his fault. He (and his colleague Richard Madeley) chose these players.

For example, how on earth did anyone think, during January, what we need to stiffen up a midfield with zero pace and energy is a player who only moves at anything like 'fast' pace when happy hour is about to end?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on February 22, 2020, 07:12:46 PM
DS MOTD interview https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/football/51597464
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on February 22, 2020, 07:13:11 PM
Quote from: VillaBoy_23 on February 22, 2020, 07:01:10 PM
I desperately want smith to succeed more than any other manager I’ve seen us have but I don’t see how you can come back from calling your own team a disgrace (they were) on national tv.
And having to be separated from your assistant (John Terry) in the tunnel after the match. Nearly came to blows. We're fucked.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on February 22, 2020, 07:13:34 PM
Quote from: The Edge on February 22, 2020, 07:13:11 PM
Quote from: VillaBoy_23 on February 22, 2020, 07:01:10 PM
I desperately want smith to succeed more than any other manager I’ve seen us have but I don’t see how you can come back from calling your own team a disgrace (they were) on national tv.
And having to be separated from your assistant (John Terry) in the tunnel after the match. Nearly came to blows. We're fucked.

No they didn't.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on February 22, 2020, 07:14:09 PM
Quote from: The Edge on February 22, 2020, 07:13:11 PM
Quote from: VillaBoy_23 on February 22, 2020, 07:01:10 PM
I desperately want smith to succeed more than any other manager I’ve seen us have but I don’t see how you can come back from calling your own team a disgrace (they were) on national tv.
And having to be separated from your assistant (John Terry) in the tunnel after the match. Nearly came to blows. We're fucked.

The reporter who was quoted on twitter as saying that had happened has said he said nothing of the sort.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan82 on February 22, 2020, 07:16:39 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on February 22, 2020, 07:12:46 PM
DS MOTD interview https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/football/51597464

In fairness, that's one of the best interviews I have seen him give.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Demitri_C on February 22, 2020, 07:18:27 PM
Im sorry but anothee examlle is jota where the hell is he?? He cant be as shit as AEG and trez. Both have bee shit for most of the seasin. Jotas had a few bad games but he hast been given as much opportunity as these two.

Trez has Ben one of the shittest summer signings. He is so ineffective for such a quick player. Runs intk dead ends as no football brain and just looks hopeless.

Looks as bad as tonev.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: David_Nab on February 22, 2020, 07:23:04 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 22, 2020, 07:18:27 PM
Im sorry but anothee examlle is jota where the hell is he?? He cant be as shit as AEG and trez. Both have bee shit for most of the seasin. Jotas had a few bad games but he hast been given as much opportunity as these two.

Trez has Ben one of the shittest summer signings. He is so ineffective for such a quick player. Runs intk dead ends as no football brain and just looks hopeless.

Looks as bad as tonev.



He isn't that quick thats part of the problem , was one point today he tried to play it past Stephens and run past him and he got no where as wasn't quick enough.Soton has Djenepo who was pain all game as he was so quick ..all over the pitch we are so damn slow.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on February 22, 2020, 07:25:44 PM
I still love him but he's out of his depth, im praying that theres 3 shitter ones than us.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Jon Crofts on February 22, 2020, 07:25:51 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 22, 2020, 07:18:27 PM
Im sorry but anothee examlle is jota where the hell is he?? He cant be as shit as AEG and trez. Both have bee shit for most of the seasin. Jotas had a few bad games but he hast been given as much opportunity as these two.

Trez has Ben one of the shittest summer signings. He is so ineffective for such a quick player. Runs intk dead ends as no football brain and just looks hopeless.

Looks as bad as tonev.



Hopefully Jota is nowhere near B6. Ever.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Richard E on February 22, 2020, 07:27:02 PM
Quote from: Jon Crofts on February 22, 2020, 07:25:51 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 22, 2020, 07:18:27 PM
Im sorry but anothee examlle is jota where the hell is he?? He cant be as shit as AEG and trez. Both have bee shit for most of the seasin. Jotas had a few bad games but he hast been given as much opportunity as these two.

Trez has Ben one of the shittest summer signings. He is so ineffective for such a quick player. Runs intk dead ends as no football brain and just looks hopeless.

Looks as bad as tonev.



Hopefully Jota is nowhere near B6. Ever.

Every time he isn’t in the squad I forget he actually plays for us.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on February 22, 2020, 07:28:06 PM
I genuinly forgot he existed.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on February 22, 2020, 07:30:51 PM
Jota was shit at Small Heath, used to laugh after we beat them, that he was their best player. Came to us, and he’s been as shit as I remember, except one ball for Wes v Everton, wow so that’s alright then!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on February 22, 2020, 07:32:08 PM
I reckon Jota is one of our best technical players and he has a good eye for a killer pass but his extreme lack of pace negates it all.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on February 22, 2020, 07:37:54 PM
No pace, no strength, he'd be fucking brilliant at 5-a-side though.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dazvillain on February 22, 2020, 07:41:35 PM
Anyone know anything about reports circling  on Twitter about dean and JT arguing in tunnel getting physical and being pulled apart by saints officials  ?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 22, 2020, 07:42:14 PM
They're made up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Demitri_C on February 22, 2020, 07:46:14 PM
Quote from: Jon Crofts on February 22, 2020, 07:25:51 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 22, 2020, 07:18:27 PM
Im sorry but anothee examlle is jota where the hell is he?? He cant be as shit as AEG and trez. Both have bee shit for most of the seasin. Jotas had a few bad games but he hast been given as much opportunity as these two.

Trez has Ben one of the shittest summer signings. He is so ineffective for such a quick player. Runs intk dead ends as no football brain and just looks hopeless.

Looks as bad as tonev.



Hopefully Jota is nowhere near B6. Ever.

Why? I bet if he was giving as much game time as trez he would do better. Trez has been woeful
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Demitri_C on February 22, 2020, 07:47:48 PM
Quote from: Ads on February 22, 2020, 07:42:14 PM
They're made up.

I doubt its true media stirrup up shit
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dazvillain on February 22, 2020, 08:10:13 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 22, 2020, 07:47:48 PM
Quote from: Ads on February 22, 2020, 07:42:14 PM
They're made up.
I really hope so that’s the last thing we need

I doubt its true media stirrup up shit
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on February 22, 2020, 08:15:19 PM
"Theres too many training ground players here"

I dont see them in training obviously but I imagine this is very much the case, fucking hell that is a damning comment.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: N'ZMAV on February 22, 2020, 08:18:13 PM
If you're not bothered about a cup final, Dean - then you're in the wrong job.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on February 22, 2020, 08:21:09 PM
Quote from: N'ZMAV on February 22, 2020, 08:18:13 PM
If you're not bothered about a cup final, Dean - then you're in the wrong job.

Im as fucked off as anybody is with him but that was a heat off the moment fucked off comment.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 22, 2020, 08:22:24 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on February 22, 2020, 08:15:19 PM
"Theres too many training ground players here"

I dont see them in training obviously but I imagine this is very much the case, fucking hell that is a damning comment.

Agreed, that's a bit of brutal comment. And much warranted.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VillaBoy_23 on February 22, 2020, 08:22:52 PM
I think he was implying he was fully focussed on today and not worrying about next week currently
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on February 22, 2020, 08:25:32 PM
We've lost 9 of the last 13 now conceding 30 goals.

It's not good enough and he's not good enough. A poor decision to give him a contract extension despite a poor start to the season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on February 22, 2020, 08:27:53 PM
Ballsy enough post match comments. Only watching the video do you get a real sense of how seething he was with the players. Unfortunately, replacement options include dross like Drinky, Baston, Henri, Jota so he is going to have to try and get the same players pretty much back on track.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john2710 on February 22, 2020, 08:31:22 PM
I can think of 3 or 4 of today's team that fit into the training ground category.
Luis
El Ghazi
Nakamba
Konsa.

Trez is just shite....
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on February 22, 2020, 08:46:59 PM
Looking at all of those names in the last two posts and you get a taste of just how poor recruitment has been - who on earth has chosen them ?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on February 22, 2020, 08:49:49 PM
They're all, nearly to a man, from teams that struggled or were mid table in weaker divisions that ours, from lower leagues or couldn't get a game in their current team.

The recruitment was poor, the management has been poor. The organisation has been poor. We've been naive in games. We've lacked intensity and concentration.

Stay up or go down, Smith should get the bullet in the summer if we are to move on. This season has been shit.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on February 22, 2020, 08:52:33 PM
I just looked at the goals again and you can see the lack of effort and desire.  Shane Long wanted the ball so much more than our defence.  Luiz could have twatted the guy and allowed himself to get turned for the second.  Hause turning his back on the ball and leaving it to others, players not busting a gut to get back to help.  We really are a poor group of individuals and not a team.

It's broken.  Smith can't fix it.  They won't bin him before the final but they should be talking to people now. If he wins the cup, then he gets the rest of the season.  That said, I cannot see them sacking him. At all.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on February 22, 2020, 08:54:28 PM
Quote from: john2710 on February 22, 2020, 08:31:22 PM
I can think of 3 or 4 of today's team that fit into the training ground category.
Luis
El Ghazi
Nakamba
Konsa.

Trez is just shite....

Luiz is the poster boy for the training ground player comment.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on February 22, 2020, 08:56:06 PM
Luiz certainly puts more effort in to his hair style than he does his football.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on February 22, 2020, 08:57:42 PM
He played well last week imo so don't have the issue with him starting today.

He just lacks consistancy and solid player big time but that's a usual problem with under 23 players. Key is to make sure you don't buy too many of them in one go.

Think El Ghazi and possibly Trez are more linked to that statement although then AEG played very well last week so would've been strange to drop him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT on February 22, 2020, 09:12:49 PM
Quite honestly, I'm really pleased that Dean has made these comments.

That was beyond pathetic today. A group of players with no passion, effort - desire, yes. A desire not to get hurt so they can play in their previous fucking final next week.

That was as bad as anything I've seen and I'm glad he's called them out for it.

We don't do anything by halves do we? We right up diarrhoea drive without a saddle once again.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Demitri_C on February 22, 2020, 09:18:01 PM
Quote from: CT on February 22, 2020, 09:12:49 PM
Quite honestly, I'm really pleased that Dean has made these comments.

That was beyond pathetic today. A group of players with no passion, effort - desire, yes. A desire not to get hurt so they can play in their previous fucking final next week.

That was as bad as anything I've seen and I'm glad he's called them out for it.

We don't do anything by halves do we? We right up diarrhoea drive without a saddle once again.

As unhappy as i am with smith i support his comments today. Im sick of him defending them when they play shit and they were proper shit today. They didnt need the manager to throw them under the bus they did that themselves with that gutless performance.

Out of the back four only targett and mings showed any credit today. It says something when reina is your motm.

Overall smiths been a failure at this level. The only reason we are where we are and not in RZ is because so many poor teams this ywar. We would be second bottok had the quality of the league been like last year
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Des Little on February 22, 2020, 09:19:56 PM
Quote from: Ads on February 22, 2020, 08:22:24 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on February 22, 2020, 08:15:19 PM
"Theres too many training ground players here"

I dont see them in training obviously but I imagine this is very much the case, fucking hell that is a damning comment.

Agreed, that's a bit of brutal comment. And much warranted.

Seconded. Let’s hope it provokes a response. I’m with Deano on this one, fair play.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Luke8 on February 22, 2020, 09:59:34 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 22, 2020, 09:18:01 PM
Quote from: CT on February 22, 2020, 09:12:49 PM
Quite honestly, I'm really pleased that Dean has made these comments.

That was beyond pathetic today. A group of players with no passion, effort - desire, yes. A desire not to get hurt so they can play in their previous fucking final next week.

That was as bad as anything I've seen and I'm glad he's called them out for it.

We don't do anything by halves do we? We right up diarrhoea drive without a saddle once again.

As unhappy as i am with smith i support his comments today. Im sick of him defending them when they play shit and they were proper shit today. They didnt need the manager to throw them under the bus they did that themselves with that gutless performance.

Out of the back four only targett and mings showed any credit today. It says something when reina is your motm.

Overall smiths been a failure at this level. The only reason we are where we are and not in RZ is because so many poor teams this ywar. We would be second bottok had the quality of the league been like last year

The same quality from last season that meant 35 points would have been enough to stay up? And that saw teams get relegated with 16 and 26 points?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on February 22, 2020, 10:01:15 PM
Nearly £40m on Nakamba, Wesley and Trezeguet. Whoever made that call needs sacking just for that. They look/looked worth about a quarter of the price.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on February 22, 2020, 10:04:09 PM
So poor players & a poor manager? I would be interested to hear what the players think of Dean. Just saying.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on February 22, 2020, 10:19:53 PM
Quote from: Three Spires Villa on February 22, 2020, 10:04:09 PM
So poor players & a poor manager? I would be interested to hear what the players think of Dean. Just saying.

Most will enjoy playing under him I'm sure.

Dosen't mean consistent performances though.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on February 22, 2020, 10:24:57 PM
Quote from: aj2k77 on February 22, 2020, 10:01:15 PM
Nearly £40m on Nakamba, Wesley and Trezeguet. Whoever made that call needs sacking just for that. They look/looked worth about a quarter of the price.

You realize though that’s the price of one decent player at this level. We simply couldn’t spend as much as we really needed to buy the required quality given how many players we needed
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 22, 2020, 11:07:32 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on February 22, 2020, 10:24:57 PM
Quote from: aj2k77 on February 22, 2020, 10:01:15 PM
Nearly £40m on Nakamba, Wesley and Trezeguet. Whoever made that call needs sacking just for that. They look/looked worth about a quarter of the price.

You realize though that’s the price of one decent player at this level. We simply couldn’t spend as much as we really needed to buy the required quality given how many players we needed

How many £40m players have Burnley got. Or Southampton?  Most teams outside of the top 6 don’t spend anything like that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on February 22, 2020, 11:14:46 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 22, 2020, 11:07:32 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on February 22, 2020, 10:24:57 PM
Quote from: aj2k77 on February 22, 2020, 10:01:15 PM
Nearly £40m on Nakamba, Wesley and Trezeguet. Whoever made that call needs sacking just for that. They look/looked worth about a quarter of the price.

You realize though that’s the price of one decent player at this level. We simply couldn’t spend as much as we really needed to buy the required quality given how many players we needed

How many £40m players have Burnley got. Or Southampton?  Most teams outside of the top 6 don’t spend anything like that.

Or Sheffield United.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 22, 2020, 11:24:39 PM
A word to describe our manager Passive, his team reflect this.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: passport1 on February 22, 2020, 11:28:30 PM
I can think of a word to describe him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Luke8 on February 22, 2020, 11:34:33 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on February 22, 2020, 11:14:46 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 22, 2020, 11:07:32 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on February 22, 2020, 10:24:57 PM
Quote from: aj2k77 on February 22, 2020, 10:01:15 PM
Nearly £40m on Nakamba, Wesley and Trezeguet. Whoever made that call needs sacking just for that. They look/looked worth about a quarter of the price.

You realize though that’s the price of one decent player at this level. We simply couldn’t spend as much as we really needed to buy the required quality given how many players we needed

How many £40m players have Burnley got. Or Southampton?  Most teams outside of the top 6 don’t spend anything like that.

Or Sheffield United.

Both sides of that argument are a bit simplistic without context though.

Norwich has a much more similar transfer strategy to Sheffield United than to us, and finished above us both, yet they are rock bottom.

For me, it’s not that all these other sides have £40 million (or whatever arbitrary figure people wan to use) players, it’s that none of them had to rebuild pretty much their entire squad from a position of being the worst promoted team the previous season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on February 22, 2020, 11:43:09 PM
Quote from: Luke8 on February 22, 2020, 11:34:33 PM
For me, it’s not that all these other sides have £40 million (or whatever arbitrary figure people wan to use) players, it’s that none of them had to rebuild pretty much their entire squad from a position of being the worst promoted team the previous season.
It's not really about the spend or about the rebuilding, it's that we took the wrong approach to it.  Rather than mixing it up with some experienced older heads and some promising youngsters we bought a load of players with almost no experience of the Premier League, or in some cases English football at any level.  That was a colossal mistake.  Plus expecting one of those untested players to be the focal point of our attack, with only a has been and a perma-crocked kid as back up.  Add to that a manager as inexperienced at this level as his players and it's easy to see why things have gone badly all season.  When we eventually did sign someone with experience we chose Drinkwater.

The problem isn't that we had to rebuild but that we did it really badly.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 22, 2020, 11:47:17 PM
At least Steve Bruce had a Plan A.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: rougegorge on February 22, 2020, 11:55:17 PM
Unfortunately, if we entertained any serious ambition about staying up, he should've gone before Christmas. I was probably fooled by the wins over Burnley and Leicester to think that maybe he could do it, but some of the mind-boggling signings in January were just absurd

As a fan, he has been given so much leeway which we just cannot afford.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on February 22, 2020, 11:55:19 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 22, 2020, 11:47:17 PM
At least Steve Bruce had a Plan A.

Nothing can ever get so bad to justify a sentence that begins, "at least Steve Bruce..."
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Luke8 on February 22, 2020, 11:57:27 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on February 22, 2020, 11:43:09 PM
Quote from: Luke8 on February 22, 2020, 11:34:33 PM
For me, it’s not that all these other sides have £40 million (or whatever arbitrary figure people wan to use) players, it’s that none of them had to rebuild pretty much their entire squad from a position of being the worst promoted team the previous season.
It's not really about the spend or about the rebuilding, it's that we took the wrong approach to it.  Rather than mixing it up with some experienced older heads and some promising youngsters we bought a load of players with almost no experience of the Premier League, or in some cases English football at any level.  That was a colossal mistake.  Plus expecting one of those untested players to be the focal point of our attack, with only a has been and a perma-crocked kid as back up.  Add to that a manager as inexperienced at this level as his players and it's easy to see why things have gone badly all season.  When we eventually did sign someone with experience we chose Drinkwater.

The problem isn't that we had to rebuild but that we did it really badly.

I get what you are saying but personally think we need to reserve judgement until the end of the season and obviously whether we stay up or not.

The recruitment strategy was clearly a bit of a risk, and currently that is looking a bit iffy, but decent players with premier league experience come at a massive premium so I think it was understandable at the time.

I think there are enough good players there that if we can find the right combination and system we to get the best out of them we will have enough to stay up still.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on February 23, 2020, 12:00:08 AM
Quote from: Risso on February 22, 2020, 11:07:32 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on February 22, 2020, 10:24:57 PM
Quote from: aj2k77 on February 22, 2020, 10:01:15 PM
Nearly £40m on Nakamba, Wesley and Trezeguet. Whoever made that call needs sacking just for that. They look/looked worth about a quarter of the price.

You realize though that’s the price of one decent player at this level. We simply couldn’t spend as much as we really needed to buy the required quality given how many players we needed

How many £40m players have Burnley got. Or Southampton?  Most teams outside of the top 6 don’t spend anything like that.

I get all that. But the sides you mentioned have all had the core of their squad together for a while. That includes Sheff Utd. Burnley and Southampton also have players who have played at this level for a while. Look, I’m the last person on here making an excuse for our lot and especially the manager. But clearly we had to fill a squad quickly and with a lot of players and we got a number of the them wrong. That or as we saw when we signed the likes of Ayew, Gana, Traore etc, they are much better over time as they improve and become more experienced at the top level. A number of our players like back then don’t look up to scratch today. Doesn’t mean it is guaranteed to stay that way. And that might even include the manager.

But right now all of them look a fucking million miles from being up to this standard. And as for Sheff Utd, they’ve not only got the benefit of that cohesiveness but they have a manager who is a thousand times better than Dean Smith is today. It’s not even close.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 23, 2020, 12:00:54 AM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on February 22, 2020, 11:55:19 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 22, 2020, 11:47:17 PM
At least Steve Bruce had a Plan A.

Nothing can ever get so bad to justify a sentence that begins, "at least Steve Bruce..."
I was there mate, it was.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Luke8 on February 23, 2020, 12:02:17 AM
Quote from: rougegorge on February 22, 2020, 11:55:17 PM
Unfortunately, if we entertained any serious ambition about staying up, he should've gone before Christmas. I was probably fooled by the wins over Burnley and Leicester to think that maybe he could do it, but some of the mind-boggling signings in January were just absurd

As a fan, he has been given so much leeway which we just cannot afford.


Yet our form over the last ten games, compared to the bottom eight, is better than Newcastle, West Ham, Norwich, Brighton and Bournemouth and as good as Palace.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on February 23, 2020, 12:05:52 AM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on February 22, 2020, 11:55:19 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 22, 2020, 11:47:17 PM
At least Steve Bruce had a Plan A.

Nothing can ever get so bad to justify a sentence that begins, "at least Steve Bruce..."

At least Steve Bruce isn't our manager.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on February 23, 2020, 12:08:21 AM
Quote from: Luke8 on February 22, 2020, 11:57:27 PM
The recruitment strategy was clearly a bit of a risk, and currently that is looking a bit iffy, but decent players with premier league experience come at a massive premium so I think it was understandable at the time.
I just don't accept that we recruited the way we did because no other way was possible.  Just as I don't accept that making good signings in January is impossible.  It's not easy, sure, but neither  is it impossible.  We've got to get a lot lot better at this sort of stuff.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on February 23, 2020, 12:14:34 AM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on February 23, 2020, 12:05:52 AM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on February 22, 2020, 11:55:19 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 22, 2020, 11:47:17 PM
At least Steve Bruce had a Plan A.

Nothing can ever get so bad to justify a sentence that begins, "at least Steve Bruce..."

At least Steve Bruce isn't our manager.

Ok, you win.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OzVilla on February 23, 2020, 12:35:24 AM
Our chance for a change was post Watford at Christmas. We missed that opportunity and went all in with Smith.

He can say what he likes after games, bang tables etc but this is his team, his formation, his line up, his organisation, his game management. It’s been poor from the off and I, like many, thought we’d improve. We’ve not despite recently having opportunities to kick on. Instead we’ve gone into a death spiral.

This is on Smith.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Demitri_C on February 23, 2020, 12:41:47 AM
Bruces football was shit but i dont care what anyone says he had us better defssbovely than smith has.

Smith has to be one of the worst managers for defensive mistakes i have seen for us. We are so woeful at the back its unreal
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on February 23, 2020, 12:45:37 AM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 23, 2020, 12:41:47 AM
Bruces football was shit but i dont care what anyone says he had us better defssbovely than smith has.

Smith has to be one of the worst managers for defensive mistakes i have seen for us. We are so woeful at the back its unreal


Not sure that you're in the best position to be calling out mistakes, mate.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OzVilla on February 23, 2020, 12:48:22 AM
We can take the piss all we like out of Bruce but he’s mid table and 6 points better off with an inferior squad to ours imo.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on February 23, 2020, 12:51:23 AM
Quote from: OzVilla on February 23, 2020, 12:48:22 AM
We can take the piss all we like out of Bruce but he’s mid table and 6 points better off with an inferior squad to ours imo.

He had an inferior squad a year ago and needed Dean Smith to come in and get them playing.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OzVilla on February 23, 2020, 01:00:13 AM
And next season his woeful squad will be playing PL football while we go back to square one in the Championship.

Too late for Smith to be throwing them under the bus now. I think we have the quality to stay up comfortably and a better manager would have achieved that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on February 23, 2020, 01:03:52 AM
Newcastle are shit, Steve Bruce is shit, that they've jammed some bizarre results doesn't alter that and on no planet would I swap Smith for him. And I say that as someone who isn't convinced Smith is good enough to be a top flight manager.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OzVilla on February 23, 2020, 01:07:14 AM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on February 23, 2020, 01:03:52 AM
Newcastle are shit, Steve Bruce is shit, that they've jammed some bizarre results doesn't alter that and on no planet would I swap Smith for him. And I say that as someone who isn't convinced Smith is good enough to be a top flight manager.

I agree but Smith has performed worse and with a far better squad. Maybe we can all nip across and tell the Jawdees how jammy they are when they’ll be playing Chelsea next season while we’ll be going to Boro.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on February 23, 2020, 01:09:46 AM
So you agree Steve Bruce is shit and yet seem to be saying you'd prefer him to be manager. Otherwise I don't get the Newcastle love in.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OzVilla on February 23, 2020, 01:15:57 AM
I’m not saying I’d prefer him as a manager, as to be honest I’d prefer neither, but considering where we are in the table and our performances I’m not sure Bruce would’ve done any worse.

I’d swap our points total for theirs and in 10 weeks that’s all that will matter.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan82 on February 23, 2020, 01:18:17 AM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on February 23, 2020, 12:05:52 AM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on February 22, 2020, 11:55:19 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 22, 2020, 11:47:17 PM
At least Steve Bruce had a Plan A.

Nothing can ever get so bad to justify a sentence that begins, "at least Steve Bruce..."

At least Steve Bruce isn't our manager.

Steve Bruce has not done a bad job with Newcastle. Certainly keeping their heads above water.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OzVilla on February 23, 2020, 01:23:09 AM
Newcastle have won more games, lost less games and conceded less goals than us.

And we all agree they’re shit. So yes, they’ve outperformed us so far. And it’s not because they have better players.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on February 23, 2020, 01:26:33 AM
I'd prefer their points total as well, and I'd love us to fluke some of the results they have, doesn't alter that they are crap and often play far worse than we do, especially going forward.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on February 23, 2020, 01:36:29 AM
I'm a knobhead like this, and it probably wouldn't work, but I'd like us to only play players who we know can hurt opponents.

Engels Mings Hause
Giulbert Luiz Target
Trezeguet Grealish Hourihane
                   Samatta


Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT Villan on February 23, 2020, 02:55:18 AM
Sorry Dean, but after the final he should be removed. Then hold our noses and ask Sam to come in and save us.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Demitri_C on February 23, 2020, 03:03:25 AM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on February 23, 2020, 12:45:37 AM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 23, 2020, 12:41:47 AM
Bruces football was shit but i dont care what anyone says he had us better defssbovely than smith has.

Smith has to be one of the worst managers for defensive mistakes i have seen for us. We are so woeful at the back its unreal


Not sure that you're in the best position to be calling out mistakes, mate.

Dont understand what that has to do with steve bruce and dean Smith?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tomd2103 on February 23, 2020, 03:21:37 AM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on February 23, 2020, 01:03:52 AM
Newcastle are shit, Steve Bruce is shit, that they've jammed some bizarre results doesn't alter that and on no planet would I swap Smith for him. And I say that as someone who isn't convinced Smith is good enough to be a top flight manager.

Steve Bruce is a defensively minded manager, who sets his teams up to try and nick results.  Understandable when you are trying to survive in the top flight and coming up against top sides, not so understandable when you are playing at home to Barnsley and Rotherham. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Axl Rose on February 23, 2020, 05:04:40 AM
I don't think Newcastle will do down, though. We may well do.

Smith always seems to do well against Bruce, though, so if he's still in a job, there's a chance we'll win at least one more game before the end of the season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 23, 2020, 05:52:26 AM
Quote from: tomd2103 on February 23, 2020, 03:21:37 AM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on February 23, 2020, 01:03:52 AM
Newcastle are shit, Steve Bruce is shit, that they've jammed some bizarre results doesn't alter that and on no planet would I swap Smith for him. And I say that as someone who isn't convinced Smith is good enough to be a top flight manager.

Steve Bruce is a defensively minded manager, who sets his teams up to try and nick results.  Understandable when you are trying to survive in the top flight and coming up against top sides, not so understandable when you are playing at home to Barnsley and Rotherham.
as I said Plan A, what is Smiths strategy?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on February 23, 2020, 07:18:58 AM
very little in the positive column has been recorded for the past decade other  than our current owners saving us from oblivion. now they must save themselves from an unremitting drain on their wallets and take the most objective of reviews, regardless of whether we stay up, win the Cup final or not. By and large, our strategy, both on and off the pitch ,has been found wanting since promotion - a situation neither would tolerate in their other business interests.PL or Championship, this summer is pivotal to our future development.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 23, 2020, 07:23:45 AM
Anyone really expecting Smith to get sacked before the end of the season?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Jon Crofts on February 23, 2020, 07:37:29 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 23, 2020, 07:23:45 AM
Anyone really expecting Smith to get sacked before the end of the season?


Hoping. Praying.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on February 23, 2020, 08:17:25 AM
Yesterday was bad enough without bringing potato head up.
"Plan A"- Roll your sleeves up. What a joke!
"Defensively minded manager"-this is the guy who left us with 1 central defender and has gone a long way to f-cking up that player's career, whilst playing Axel at rb.
Comparisons with the jordees-They were already PL when he joined them. They've got a £40m striker who can't score. When he left us we were on our way to fighting a relegation battle in the championship with very little in the way of defence. There is only one way newcastle is going under him.
Compare Deano to other managers if you have to, but bruce? Really?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tony scott on February 23, 2020, 08:20:11 AM
I'm sure Dean is now fighting to stay in his Job, the squad appear to be disunighted and at times totally out of there depth, I think the blame can get shared around The coach and his team the CEO and The Director of Football, Oh and those who put the Jeresy on I'm glad I haven't got to rely on this Flakey bunch for my job.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The_ads on February 23, 2020, 09:00:22 AM
My major concern, other than the abject performances, is we have arguably the best centre half in premier league history as coach yet our defence is akin to the keystone cops
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The_ads on February 23, 2020, 09:01:54 AM
Quote from: CT Villan on February 23, 2020, 02:55:18 AM
Sorry Dean, but after the final he should be removed. Then hold our noses and ask Sam to come in and save us.


Fucking hell no. No no no no.


No
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on February 23, 2020, 09:02:06 AM
Wolves new owners showed they meant business by employing someone who had managed in European knockout football, finished runners up in a league and had worked miracles with a tiny club. We employed someone who had finished mid table in the Championship. 

As much as I like Smith, he is very limited and working miles above anything he's done before and it's showing.

Eventually we are going to have to entice a really good manager to work with us because for the past 10 years we've had a selection of shit ones.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The_ads on February 23, 2020, 09:05:05 AM
We know things have got bad when we are comparing what life might be like with Steve Bruce
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Luke8 on February 23, 2020, 09:14:25 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 23, 2020, 07:23:45 AM
Anyone really expecting Smith to get sacked before the end of the season?


No chance whatsoever. I think he stays even if we go down too.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ROBBO on February 23, 2020, 09:25:15 AM
Then we deserve what we get.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 23, 2020, 09:25:27 AM
Quote from: Luke8 on February 23, 2020, 09:14:25 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 23, 2020, 07:23:45 AM
Anyone really expecting Smith to get sacked before the end of the season?


No chance whatsoever. I think he stays even if we go down too.
I really hope not, at some point this club has got to start planning to be a successful Premier League club.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: itbrvilla on February 23, 2020, 09:29:52 AM
Quote from: Luke8 on February 23, 2020, 09:14:25 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 23, 2020, 07:23:45 AM
Anyone really expecting Smith to get sacked before the end of the season?


No chance whatsoever. I think he stays even if we go down too.
Where do we draw the line?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on February 23, 2020, 09:46:54 AM
He won’t get the boot this season and might not if we go down. It is debatable though that he should go now
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on February 23, 2020, 09:57:48 AM
If you get relegated you should get the sack. You have failed and the performances have been poor.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT on February 23, 2020, 10:00:04 AM
Quote from: The_ads on February 23, 2020, 09:01:54 AM
Quote from: CT Villan on February 23, 2020, 02:55:18 AM
Sorry Dean, but after the final he should be removed. Then hold our noses and ask Sam to come in and save us.


Fucking hell no. No no no no.


No

Sam fucking Allardyce. Time to knock it on the head for me if that happens.

Still, the local stationery firms should do well with sales of Jiffy bags and brown envelopes.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clark W Griswold on February 23, 2020, 10:16:45 AM
I think we're going down if he remains. If by some miracle we win the League Cup next week i would keep him on and let him have a go at getting us back up which i think he's capable of. If we lose next week that would be the point where we could seriously think about a change but would it be too late? Would we make the right choice? You'd like to think that considering how well he did last season and that we have seen glimmers of guts and quality this season that he would get the chance to have another go next season, but in the modern football world there is so much money riding on it that it's not really practical. The owners have money and ambition and if we can get someone in that clearly has a more impressive CV and bigger presence in the game then we're surely going to have to. But do we go for someone as a quick fix (not necessarily Alladyce but that sort) in the hope of a very quick turnaround or do we go for a longer term plan? I suppose it depends who's available.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on February 23, 2020, 10:34:34 AM
Quote from: aj2k77 on February 23, 2020, 09:57:48 AM
If you get relegated you should get the sack. You have failed and the performances have been poor.
No not necessarily. Burnley kept faith with Dyche and came back up. Smith has only been in charge just over a year. That's not long enough and may be he  promoted us too early without an organic team and proper plan and now that is showing up. We do need to keep over nerves steady now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on February 23, 2020, 10:42:19 AM
I guess we'll find out over the next couple of games whether his calling out of the players was the act of a strong manager imposing some discipline or the last roll of the dice by a desperate man. I'm not too hopeful.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on February 23, 2020, 10:44:37 AM
Quote from: itbrvilla on February 23, 2020, 09:29:52 AM
Quote from: Luke8 on February 23, 2020, 09:14:25 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 23, 2020, 07:23:45 AM
Anyone really expecting Smith to get sacked before the end of the season?


No chance whatsoever. I think he stays even if we go down too.
Where do we draw the line?
God knows.  Smith does seem an unlikely choice to pin all the club's hopes on.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on February 23, 2020, 10:45:11 AM
Sunday Supplement about to talk about Villa and yesterday's performance.  They can probably sum it up in one word, but they are unlikely to swear on the tellybox!

Fine lines for Smith, win the League Cup, he also won the play off's.  Two cups in two years and we are talking about getting rid?  Harsh, but...getting relegated tops winning the cup for me.  We are a mess, we look a mess and are way too easy to play against. (Haven't won the League Cup yet either).
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: London Villan on February 23, 2020, 10:46:44 AM
The irony is that if we go down he would be the best choice to take us back up, but if we stay up he might be gone.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on February 23, 2020, 10:53:53 AM
I don't think that Purslow is a shrinking violet, he did sack Rafael Benitez after all.  I am a bit surprised by his loyalty to Dean Smith with our club and performances in decline.  Lose the Final and there really is no reason to keep Dean Smith. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on February 23, 2020, 10:57:03 AM
Quote from: Newby on February 23, 2020, 10:53:53 AM
I don't think that Purslow is a shrinking violet, he did sack Rafael Benitez after all.  I am a bit surprised by his loyalty to Dean Smith with our club and performances in decline.  Lose the Final and there really is no reason to keep Dean Smith. 

He's got us promoted and has got us to a cup final in just over a year and we are not in the bottom three. It's not showing loyalty, but maybe he just thinks there's not enough there for him to be sacked.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: FrankyH on February 23, 2020, 11:00:09 AM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on February 23, 2020, 10:42:19 AM
I guess we'll find out over the next couple of games whether his calling out of the players was the act of a strong manager imposing some discipline or the last roll of the dice by a desperate man. I'm not too hopeful.

After his quote yesterday any player that gets dropped for the final is likely to take it personally. I know there comes a time to draw a line in the sand , but he's left himself open with that remark. As much as I disliked Mr Ferguson , he never slated his players publicly in press conferences.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: itmustbe_it is! on February 23, 2020, 11:00:18 AM
I've been firmly in the Smith in camp but I'm struggling now.

The players carry a lot of the responsibility for yesterday but we can only play the players we've got, Most people were happy with the team selection. But to keep playing the same system, which hasn't really worked properly since the first couple of games he employed it, is what's frustrating me.

The three man defence and playing out from the back - Konsa and Hause aren't good enough to play this system. For me go back to Mings and Engels in a 2
Guilbert and Targett should be ok for now
Luiz and Nakamba in a 2 man midfield - nowhere near good enough. Short of options here but Id play Conor with them in a three, but I wouldn't object to Drinkwater instead. Or maybe Konsa as a DM?
Jack as a "no 10" behind a front two - Samatta and Baston .

I'd stick with Reina as yesterday apart he's looked fine.

Gives a bench then of : Nyland, Elmo, Hause , two of Drinkwater/Hourihane/Konsa, El Ghazi, Trezeguet.

I fear Dean has to go and someone else in to see the above as our best option for the rest of this year.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 23, 2020, 11:00:46 AM
Purslow’s expectations at the start of the season were a lot higher than not being in the bottom three.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on February 23, 2020, 11:09:16 AM
Quote from: Clampy on February 23, 2020, 10:57:03 AM
Quote from: Newby on February 23, 2020, 10:53:53 AM
I don't think that Purslow is a shrinking violet, he did sack Rafael Benitez after all.  I am a bit surprised by his loyalty to Dean Smith with our club and performances in decline.  Lose the Final and there really is no reason to keep Dean Smith. 

He's got us promoted and has got us to a cup final in just over a year and we are not in the bottom three. It's not showing loyalty, but maybe he just thinks there's not enough there for him to be sacked.

As I said in my pervious post, fine lines.  So, if we lose in the cup final and slip into the bottom three over the course of the next 7 days, then, will there be enough then to sack him?   We are not there yet, so purely hypothetical.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on February 23, 2020, 11:13:15 AM
Quote from: Newby on February 23, 2020, 11:09:16 AM
Quote from: Clampy on February 23, 2020, 10:57:03 AM
Quote from: Newby on February 23, 2020, 10:53:53 AM
I don't think that Purslow is a shrinking violet, he did sack Rafael Benitez after all.  I am a bit surprised by his loyalty to Dean Smith with our club and performances in decline.  Lose the Final and there really is no reason to keep Dean Smith. 

He's got us promoted and has got us to a cup final in just over a year and we are not in the bottom three. It's not showing loyalty, but maybe he just thinks there's not enough there for him to be sacked.

As I said in my pervious post, fine lines.  So, if we lose in the cup final and slip into the bottom three over the course of the next 7 days, then, will there be enough then to sack him?   We are not there yet, so purely hypothetical.

That's Purslow's call. Personally, I wouldn't be sacking him as of now or if we lose next week but it goes without saying, we can't have too many more performances like yesterday.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OzVilla on February 23, 2020, 11:18:05 AM
Quote from: London Villan on February 23, 2020, 10:46:44 AM
The irony is that if we go down he would be the best choice to take us back up, but if we stay up he might be gone.

I said the same last week.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 23, 2020, 11:23:20 AM
Quote from: OzVilla on February 23, 2020, 11:18:05 AM
Quote from: London Villan on February 23, 2020, 10:46:44 AM
The irony is that if we go down he would be the best choice to take us back up, but if we stay up he might be gone.

I said the same last week.

I don't agree with that.  He's never come close to getting promoted before, and he was fortunate to have a squad with Grealish, McGinn and Mings in it, quality that will probably never be seen in one team in the Championship again for a long while.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Big Ming on February 23, 2020, 11:23:38 AM
Question:

Dean Smith is responsible for coaching/tactics/match day selection/ team motivation.

Suso is responsible for getting the best players for the money available which means all of our signings since he took the job.

Who do you blame most and how long do you stick with a failing system?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tim on February 23, 2020, 11:37:16 AM
Quote from: Big Ming on February 23, 2020, 11:23:38 AM
Question:

Dean Smith is responsible for coaching/tactics/match day selection/ team motivation.

Suso is responsible for getting the best players for the money available which means all of our signings since he took the job.

Who do you blame most and how long do you stick with a failing system?
To be honest I think DS is doing ok with the players he has. There are 5 or 6 genuine PL standard players, but enough that just aren't quite there which makes things that bit more difficult for them. A change of manager might help in the short term, but until the quality of players improves I don't see much hope.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Flin5tone on February 23, 2020, 11:53:57 AM
If he wasn't a Villa fan he would not be our manager .

It's a crazy situation and it's going to send us back down,for all the praise the owners get for saving us we're being run by clueless clowns who seem happy for us to be a Championship Club again
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: walsall villain on February 23, 2020, 12:01:54 PM
Quote from: tim on February 23, 2020, 11:37:16 AM
Quote from: Big Ming on February 23, 2020, 11:23:38 AM
Question:

Dean Smith is responsible for coaching/tactics/match day selection/ team motivation.

Suso is responsible for getting the best players for the money available which means all of our signings since he took the job.

Who do you blame most and how long do you stick with a failing system?
To be honest I think DS is doing ok with the players he has. There are 5 or 6 genuine PL standard players, but enough that just aren't quite there which makes things that bit more difficult for them. A change of manager might help in the short term, but until the quality of players improves I don't see much hope.
That’s the issue with changing manager. Yesterday I was all for getting a fire fighter in like Allardyce but having slept on it I’m not sure. I’ve always thought the squad has major weaknesses, what if we appointed Allardyce (say) and still go down? We then will be trying a complete rebuild yet again. This is such a tough decision I reckon. My guess is they’ll stick with Smith even after relegation.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on February 23, 2020, 12:05:44 PM
Quote from: walsall villain on February 23, 2020, 12:01:54 PM
That’s the issue with changing manager. Yesterday I was all for getting a fire fighter in like Allardyce but having slept on it I’m not sure. I’ve always thought the squad has major weaknesses, what if we appointed Allardyce (say) and still go down? We then will be trying a complete rebuild yet again. This is such a tough decision I reckon. My guess is they’ll stick with Smith even after relegation.
It's not just a choice between Allardyce and Smith though is it?  There are lots of more palatable alternatives.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villafirst on February 23, 2020, 12:07:32 PM
DS may as well use the same after match comments for all the away games. Just change the opposition name. Nothing changes and it's arguably getting worse. The players simply have no respect for their manager.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Big Ming on February 23, 2020, 12:09:26 PM
Quote from: walsall villain on February 23, 2020, 12:01:54 PM
Quote from: tim on February 23, 2020, 11:37:16 AM
Quote from: Big Ming on February 23, 2020, 11:23:38 AM
Question:

Dean Smith is responsible for coaching/tactics/match day selection/ team motivation.

Suso is responsible for getting the best players for the money available which means all of our signings since he took the job.

Who do you blame most and how long do you stick with a failing system?
To be honest I think DS is doing ok with the players he has. There are 5 or 6 genuine PL standard players, but enough that just aren't quite there which makes things that bit more difficult for them. A change of manager might help in the short term, but until the quality of players improves I don't see much hope.
That’s the issue with changing manager. Yesterday I was all for getting a fire fighter in like Allardyce but having slept on it I’m not sure. I’ve always thought the squad has major weaknesses, what if we appointed Allardyce (say) and still go down? We then will be trying a complete rebuild yet again. This is such a tough decision I reckon. My guess is they’ll stick with Smith even after relegation.
Suso has signed some proper duds. We don't want him in charge of the next rebuild, do we?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Virgil Caine on February 23, 2020, 12:10:07 PM
Quote from: Villafirst on February 23, 2020, 12:07:32 PM
DS may as well use the same after match comments for all the away games. Just change the opposition name. Nothing changes and it's arguably getting worse. The players simply have no respect for their manager.

Is the last sentence your opinion or is it based on something you have heard or read?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan82 on February 23, 2020, 12:20:26 PM
Quote from: Newby on February 23, 2020, 10:53:53 AM
I don't think that Purslow is a shrinking violet, he did sack Rafael Benitez after all.  I am a bit surprised by his loyalty to Dean Smith with our club and performances in decline.  Lose the Final and there really is no reason to keep Dean Smith.

This.

I never expected this kind of loyalty to Smith.

We all know we should have had 2-3 points more from the first ten games and possibly another 2-3 by Christmas. About 4-6 points pissed away?

Relegation pushes us behind by about 5 years I reckon. You are a year out (minimum). You lose Jack, Mings and McGinn. You become a 'scalp' for every team in the Championship. The Championship becomes another tough, tough grind. If you come up (a big if as Leeds will tell you) you are back to being cannon fodder for another year and you have fallen further behind the other teams who have leapfrogged us this decade.

Staying up was the objective this season. Hell for leather for survival -a bit of pragmatism here and there would have been nice. Playing the right way is all well and good - if it keeps you up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on February 23, 2020, 12:21:22 PM
Quote from: Virgil Caine on February 23, 2020, 12:10:07 PM
Quote from: Villafirst on February 23, 2020, 12:07:32 PM
DS may as well use the same after match comments for all the away games. Just change the opposition name. Nothing changes and it's arguably getting worse. The players simply have no respect for their manager.

Is the last sentence your opinion or is it based on something you have heard or read?
Judging by the complete lack of desire, fight, passion, determination - call it what you like - yesterday, I think it's pretty clear something's not right behind the scenes.  AEG mincing off after being caressed on the side of the face is, in my opinion, also pointing in that direction.  It won't be confirmed of course but in instances when we know the dressing room has been lost that's the kind of performance you tend to get.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ez on February 23, 2020, 12:24:15 PM
Quote from: Luke8 on February 23, 2020, 09:14:25 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 23, 2020, 07:23:45 AM
Anyone really expecting Smith to get sacked before the end of the season?


No chance whatsoever. I think he stays even if we go down too.

Not a chance of him going. I dont think the owners will give him an easy out by sacking him. We're  going to see him scowling on the touchline for a while yet.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: itbrvilla on February 23, 2020, 12:24:27 PM
Quote from: Villan82 on February 23, 2020, 12:20:26 PM
Quote from: Newby on February 23, 2020, 10:53:53 AM
I don't think that Purslow is a shrinking violet, he did sack Rafael Benitez after all.  I am a bit surprised by his loyalty to Dean Smith with our club and performances in decline.  Lose the Final and there really is no reason to keep Dean Smith.

This.

I never expected this kind of loyalty to Smith.

We all know we should have had 2-3 points more from the first ten games and possibly another 2-3 by Christmas. About 4-6 points pissed away?

Relegation pushes us behind by about 5 years I reckon. You are a year out (minimum). You lose Jack, Mings and McGinn. You become a 'scalp' for every team in the Championship. The Championship becomes another tough, tough grind. If you come up (a big if as Leeds will tell you) you are back to being cannon fodder for another year and you have fallen further behind the other teams who have leapfrogged us this decade.

Staying up was the objective this season. Hell for leather for survival -a bit of pragmatism here and there would have been nice. Playing the right way is all well and good - if it keeps you up.
What's the right way? Getting battered by the opposition every game? Giving them all the possession? Putting ourselves under continual pressure? I don't think we've had a fitness problem I think we just get knackard as we are chasing the ball constantly. We make everything easy for almost everyone who we've played.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on February 23, 2020, 12:39:40 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 23, 2020, 11:00:46 AM
Purslow’s expectations at the start of the season were a lot higher than not being in the bottom three.
Purslow's expectations were to stay in the Premier League and we have not been relegated just yet and we are not in the bottom 3. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on February 23, 2020, 12:46:15 PM
Quote from: olaftab on February 23, 2020, 12:39:40 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 23, 2020, 11:00:46 AM
Purslow’s expectations at the start of the season were a lot higher than not being in the bottom three.
Purslow's expectations were to stay in the Premier League and we have not been relegated just yet and we are not in the bottom 3.
Did he actually say that?  Stay up and no more?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Olof's Beard on February 23, 2020, 12:54:09 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on February 23, 2020, 12:21:22 PM
Quote from: Virgil Caine on February 23, 2020, 12:10:07 PM
Quote from: Villafirst on February 23, 2020, 12:07:32 PM
DS may as well use the same after match comments for all the away games. Just change the opposition name. Nothing changes and it's arguably getting worse. The players simply have no respect for their manager.

Is the last sentence your opinion or is it based on something you have heard or read?
Judging by the complete lack of desire, fight, passion, determination - call it what you like - yesterday, I think it's pretty clear something's not right behind the scenes.  AEG mincing off after being caressed on the side of the face is, in my opinion, also pointing in that direction.  It won't be confirmed of course but in instances when we know the dressing room has been lost that's the kind of performance you tend to get.

I love how people draw conclusions from so little. There was nothing wrong with the spirit against Spurs or across the two legs of the League Cup Final. Note the way the players rallied around Engels last week too. It's more likely that we have a bunch of young, inconsistent players who are too easily overpowered and intimidated when things aren't going their way. I don't think the players have given up on the manager. We have one of the weakest squads in the league. We're about where we should be in the table.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ASHTONVILLA on February 23, 2020, 01:09:09 PM
Should have binned Smith in December, still think Alladyce could keep us up. Still not convinced Smith can.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on February 23, 2020, 01:11:25 PM
Quote from: Olof's Beard on February 23, 2020, 12:54:09 PM
I love how people draw conclusions from so little. There was nothing wrong with the spirit against Spurs or across the two legs of the League Cup Final. Note the way the players rallied around Engels last week too. It's more likely that we have a bunch of young, inconsistent players who are too easily overpowered and intimidated when things aren't going their way. I don't think the players have given up on the manager. We have one of the weakest squads in the league. We're about where we should be in the table.
I suppose all you can say is that Smith was as shocked and embarrassed by the team yesterday as most of us on here were and, more importantly, was at a total loss to explain it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kipeye on February 23, 2020, 01:14:59 PM
Quote from: ASHTONVILLA on February 23, 2020, 01:09:09 PM
Should have binned Smith in December, still think Alladyce could keep us up. Still not convinced Smith can.
That would set us back 10 years, not 5. Fat Sam and his ilk-there are a few of them out there, would be the worst way to go. If we go down, we can get back up again and Smith would be my favourite to do so. If that didn't happen, yes, change it and bring someone else in, but give it a chance. I hate the merry-go -round of changing managers and would like to see stability for a few seasons at least.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: McGraths Dry Cleaning on February 23, 2020, 01:19:56 PM
It's not over yet - Cup Final and relegation or otherwise is in our own hands. The opportunity to sack Smith to drive some change into the team before the end of the season has gone IMO but turn in a performance or two at VP like yesterday and the fans might pull the trigger anyway.

Personally for me Villa has been underperforming for years. Doesn't seem to matter who the owner, manager or coaching staff are we're lacking in every area of the club. Plenty have managed to survive in the Premiership on a fraction of the money we spend. We've been punching blow our weight for years. Maybe the new owners will sort it out.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: jwarry on February 23, 2020, 01:41:09 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on February 23, 2020, 01:11:25 PM
Quote from: Olof's Beard on February 23, 2020, 12:54:09 PM
I love how people draw conclusions from so little. There was nothing wrong with the spirit against Spurs or across the two legs of the League Cup Final. Note the way the players rallied around Engels last week too. It's more likely that we have a bunch of young, inconsistent players who are too easily overpowered and intimidated when things aren't going their way. I don't think the players have given up on the manager. We have one of the weakest squads in the league. We're about where we should be in the table.
I suppose all you can say is that Smith was as shocked and embarrassed by the team yesterday as most of us on here were and, more importantly, was at a total loss to explain it.

Judging by his anger, that seems to be the size of it.  If there is one thing we know about Dean it is that he wants to play the right way but in less than 18 months the turnover of players has been extraordinary so he hasn’t been able to get his plans into a team of players he can trust -and of course we don’t know what if any influence he has had on the incoming players.  I doubt he has experienced the pressure he is now under and it could either be his making or.......
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on February 23, 2020, 01:45:17 PM
It always amazes me that Allardyce is classed as an old school dinosaur whereas in reality he was way ahead of the game regarding sports science which he took a great interest in whilst winding down his playing career in the states. There were reasons little old Bolton punched above their weight under him. Not to mention him avoiding relegation with some pretty poor teams like Bolton, Newcastle, Blackburn, West Ham, Sunderland, Palace and Everton (three of which went to pot and went down after he moved on). I think he is a guy that firstly keeps sides up and then if given time and support moves clubs onwards and upwards.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AlexAlexCropley on February 23, 2020, 01:46:43 PM
Quote from: Damo70 on February 23, 2020, 01:45:17 PM
It always amazes me that Allardyce is classed as an old school dinosaur whereas in reality he was way ahead of the game regarding sports science which he took a great interest in whilst winding down his playing career in the states. There were reasons little old Bolton punched above their weight under him. Not to mention him avoiding relegation with some pretty poor teams like Bolton, Newcastle, Blackburn, West Ham, Sunderland, Palace and Everton (three of which went to pot and went down after he moved on). I think he is a guy that firstly keeps sides up and then if given time and support moves clubs onwards and upwards.
Is this Sam Allardyce from Earth 2.0?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Flin5tone on February 23, 2020, 01:49:11 PM
Quote from: Damo70 on February 23, 2020, 01:45:17 PM
It always amazes me that Allardyce is classed as an old school dinosaur whereas in reality he was way ahead of the game regarding sports science which he took a great interest in whilst winding down his playing career in the states. There were reasons little old Bolton punched above their weight under him. Not to mention him avoiding relegation with some pretty poor teams like Bolton, Newcastle, Blackburn, West Ham, Sunderland, Palace and Everton (three of which went to pot and went down after he moved on). I think he is a guy that firstly keeps sides up and then if given time and support moves clubs onwards and upwards.

Spot on

Unfortunately too many of our fans think we're above fat sam and want this Dean Smith 'exciting' brand of football that comes for 20 mins every few games.

He's a Championship manager at best
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT on February 23, 2020, 01:50:34 PM
Quote from: Flin5tone on February 23, 2020, 11:53:57 AM
If he wasn't a Villa fan he would not be our manager .

It's a crazy situation and it's going to send us back down,for all the praise the owners get for saving us we're being run by clueless clowns who seem happy for us to be a Championship Club again

Utter, utter bollocks. With no respect.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Demitri_C on February 23, 2020, 01:53:20 PM
Quote from: kipeye on February 23, 2020, 01:14:59 PM
Quote from: ASHTONVILLA on February 23, 2020, 01:09:09 PM
Should have binned Smith in December, still think Alladyce could keep us up. Still not convinced Smith can.
That would set us back 10 years, not 5. Fat Sam and his ilk-there are a few of them out there, would be the worst way to go. If we go down, we can get back up again and Smith would be my favourite to do so. If that didn't happen, yes, change it and bring someone else in, but give it a chance. I hate the merry-go -round of changing managers and would like to see stability for a few seasons at least.

Im not convinced he can. He relies heavily on grealish and looks tactically poor at times.

Also signed some real duds like wesley trez and jota.

Our midfueld needs heavy investment if we go down.  Id firstly get rid of trez and sign lolley or benrama if neither side comes up
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on February 23, 2020, 01:58:14 PM
Quote from: CT on February 23, 2020, 01:50:34 PM
Quote from: Flin5tone on February 23, 2020, 11:53:57 AM
If he wasn't a Villa fan he would not be our manager .

It's a crazy situation and it's going to send us back down,for all the praise the owners get for saving us we're being run by clueless clowns who seem happy for us to be a Championship Club again

Utter, utter bollocks. With no respect.
I think there's an argument to say that if he wasn't a Villa fan he would no longer be our manager.  The fan thing was always a red herring anyway: it was never going to make him a better manager, and 'knowing' the club was quantifiable rhetoric.  The only advantage he was ever going to get from it was that it would buy him more time with the fans, which it may be doing right now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: jwarry on February 23, 2020, 01:58:47 PM
Quote from: CT on February 23, 2020, 01:50:34 PM
Quote from: Flin5tone on February 23, 2020, 11:53:57 AM
If he wasn't a Villa fan he would not be our manager .

It's a crazy situation and it's going to send us back down,for all the praise the owners get for saving us we're being run by clueless clowns who seem happy for us to be a Championship Club again

Utter, utter bollocks. With no respect.

Speechless
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: walsall villain on February 23, 2020, 01:59:37 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on February 23, 2020, 12:05:44 PM
Quote from: walsall villain on February 23, 2020, 12:01:54 PM
That’s the issue with changing manager. Yesterday I was all for getting a fire fighter in like Allardyce but having slept on it I’m not sure. I’ve always thought the squad has major weaknesses, what if we appointed Allardyce (say) and still go down? We then will be trying a complete rebuild yet again. This is such a tough decision I reckon. My guess is they’ll stick with Smith even after relegation.
It's not just a choice between Allardyce and Smith though is it?  There are lots of more palatable alternatives.
Go on then, who?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on February 23, 2020, 02:01:04 PM
Quote from: walsall villain on February 23, 2020, 01:59:37 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on February 23, 2020, 12:05:44 PM
Quote from: walsall villain on February 23, 2020, 12:01:54 PM
That’s the issue with changing manager. Yesterday I was all for getting a fire fighter in like Allardyce but having slept on it I’m not sure. I’ve always thought the squad has major weaknesses, what if we appointed Allardyce (say) and still go down? We then will be trying a complete rebuild yet again. This is such a tough decision I reckon. My guess is they’ll stick with Smith even after relegation.
It's not just a choice between Allardyce and Smith though is it?  There are lots of more palatable alternatives.
Go on then, who?
I posted a link to a list of currently unemployed managers on here yesterday - sorry, can't remember which thread although it may have been this one.  It's easily Googled though.  There were plenty of fine managers on it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ez on February 23, 2020, 02:29:47 PM
Quote from: kipeye on February 23, 2020, 01:14:59 PM
Quote from: ASHTONVILLA on February 23, 2020, 01:09:09 PM
Should have binned Smith in December, still think Alladyce could keep us up. Still not convinced Smith can.
That would set us back 10 years, not 5. Fat Sam and his ilk-there are a few of them out there, would be the worst way to go. If we go down, we can get back up again and Smith would be my favourite to do so. If that didn't happen, yes, change it and bring someone else in, but give it a chance. I hate the merry-go -round of changing managers and would like to see stability for a few seasons at least.

When Smith arrived he had Grealish, McGinn, Mings and Abraham already at the club. He won't have any of them next time. We'll be further back than when he arrived.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: walsall villain on February 23, 2020, 02:34:22 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on February 23, 2020, 02:01:04 PM
Quote from: walsall villain on February 23, 2020, 01:59:37 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on February 23, 2020, 12:05:44 PM
Quote from: walsall villain on February 23, 2020, 12:01:54 PM
That’s the issue with changing manager. Yesterday I was all for getting a fire fighter in like Allardyce but having slept on it I’m not sure. I’ve always thought the squad has major weaknesses, what if we appointed Allardyce (say) and still go down? We then will be trying a complete rebuild yet again. This is such a tough decision I reckon. My guess is they’ll stick with Smith even after relegation.
It's not just a choice between Allardyce and Smith though is it?  There are lots of more palatable alternatives.
Go on then, who?
I posted a link to a list of currently unemployed managers on here yesterday - sorry, can't remember which thread although it may have been this one.  It's easily Googled though.  There were plenty of fine managers on it.
Not sure where to look. It’s difficult though isn’t it? Who wants 11 games? Who has a track record of turning things around? Who would play the sort of football the owners and management want? I’d hate to be making the decision.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Flin5tone on February 23, 2020, 02:40:16 PM
Fat sam on a contract until end of season, keeps us up huge bonus for him and say goodbye and bring in a manager who plays the football that people want to see

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: jwarry on February 23, 2020, 02:52:25 PM
Quote from: Flin5tone on February 23, 2020, 02:40:16 PM
Fat sam on a contract until end of season, keeps us up huge bonus for him and say goodbye and bring in a manager who plays the football that people want to see



Simples! Jeez
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on February 23, 2020, 02:56:50 PM
They're not going to do it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Demitri_C on February 23, 2020, 03:03:21 PM
Man its going to be so depressing if we are switching leagues with leeds and wba.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Luke8 on February 23, 2020, 03:44:54 PM
Quote from: ez on February 23, 2020, 02:29:47 PM
Quote from: kipeye on February 23, 2020, 01:14:59 PM
Quote from: ASHTONVILLA on February 23, 2020, 01:09:09 PM
Should have binned Smith in December, still think Alladyce could keep us up. Still not convinced Smith can.
That would set us back 10 years, not 5. Fat Sam and his ilk-there are a few of them out there, would be the worst way to go. If we go down, we can get back up again and Smith would be my favourite to do so. If that didn't happen, yes, change it and bring someone else in, but give it a chance. I hate the merry-go -round of changing managers and would like to see stability for a few seasons at least.

When Smith arrived he had Grealish, McGinn, Mings and Abraham already at the club. He won't have any of them next time. We'll be further back than when he arrived.

For a start, Smith signed Mings in loan, he wasn’t here when he arrived. He has also then improved to the level that he is now an international football player. I think you have to give Smith some credit for that.

I’d argue that both Grealish and McGinn played consistently at a higher level under Smith than they did under Bruce as well.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on February 23, 2020, 03:50:16 PM
Quote from: Luke8 on February 23, 2020, 03:44:54 PM
For a start, Smith signed Mings in loan, he wasn’t here when he arrived. He has also then improved to the level that he is now an international football player. I think you have to give Smith some credit for that.
Some, but not much.  Tyrone was brilliant from the day he arrived.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ez on February 23, 2020, 03:55:57 PM
Quote from: Luke8 on February 23, 2020, 03:44:54 PM
Quote from: ez on February 23, 2020, 02:29:47 PM
Quote from: kipeye on February 23, 2020, 01:14:59 PM
Quote from: ASHTONVILLA on February 23, 2020, 01:09:09 PM
Should have binned Smith in December, still think Alladyce could keep us up. Still not convinced Smith can.
That would set us back 10 years, not 5. Fat Sam and his ilk-there are a few of them out there, would be the worst way to go. If we go down, we can get back up again and Smith would be my favourite to do so. If that didn't happen, yes, change it and bring someone else in, but give it a chance. I hate the merry-go -round of changing managers and would like to see stability for a few seasons at least.

When Smith arrived he had Grealish, McGinn, Mings and Abraham already at the club. He won't have any of them next time. We'll be further back than when he arrived.

For a start, Smith signed Mings in loan, he wasn’t here when he arrived. He has also then improved to the level that he is now an international football player. I think you have to give Smith some credit for that.

I’d argue that both Grealish and McGinn played consistently at a higher level under Smith than they did under Bruce as well.

Ok I was wrong on Mings already being with us. The point I was making is we wont have these players if we go down.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: GarTomas on February 23, 2020, 03:59:04 PM
Quote from: Jon Crofts on February 22, 2020, 06:45:03 PM
Quote from: itbrvilla on February 22, 2020, 06:36:08 PM
Quote from: Richard E on February 22, 2020, 06:25:47 PM
Trez has been woeful all season, he’s just a headless chicken.
Absolutely shit. Worst of all the new signings.

There’s a huge range to choose from, he’s not the worst, where do you start? Wesley, Trez, Luiz, Nakamba, Konsa, Hause, Jota. Christ we’ve bought some shit.

We haven’t bought total shit. We assembled a squad that we had to to assemble given last season  our squad was full of loan players or out of contract journeyman.

We assembled a squad that was largely potential, with the exception of Mings there wasn’t really a player we signed who was proven.   But we were never going to able to assemble such a squad.

FFP, rightly or wrongly stopped us spending more.

Whatever happens in the summer we will have another large turn over in players across the squad.

Elmo and Taylor will be gone regardless but I expect to keep Targett and Guilbert. At centre half Mings reluctantly will go but we won’t lose money on him. Konsa, Engels and Hause will all stay and be fine.

Lansbury is gone for sure. Hourihane would stay if we go down and be sold if we stay up. Nakamba and Luiz will stay wherever we are. 

Be similar for the forward options as well.

This whole year was always going to be shit or bust as we got promoted a year earlier than expected. We’re not adrift. We’ve got 11 games left and probably need to find 3/4 wins and some draws.

Not out of it by any stretch.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on February 23, 2020, 04:02:49 PM
Quote from: GarTomas on February 23, 2020, 03:59:04 PM
This whole year was always going to be shit or bust as we got promoted a year earlier than expected. We’re not adrift. We’ve got 11 games left and probably need to find 3/4 wins and some draws.

Not out of it by any stretch.
You're absolutely right, we aren't.  But other clubs must be licking their lips at the thought of playing us at the moment.  3 or 4 wins out of the games we have left is a very tall order.  But not impossible.  Something's going to have to change very soon though.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: GarTomas on February 23, 2020, 04:09:17 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on February 23, 2020, 04:02:49 PM
Quote from: GarTomas on February 23, 2020, 03:59:04 PM
This whole year was always going to be shit or bust as we got promoted a year earlier than expected. We’re not adrift. We’ve got 11 games left and probably need to find 3/4 wins and some draws.

Not out of it by any stretch.
You're absolutely right, we aren't.  But other clubs must be licking their lips at the thought of playing us at the moment.  3 or 4 wins out of the games we have left is a very tall order.  But not impossible.  Something's going to have to change very soon though.

We went toe to toe with Tottenham and had we been more clinical would of won.

Chelsea, Man U and Arsenal at home. I could see us getting on paper unlikely points from all those games.

Watford’s revival seems to have losts its wings. Norwich are done. West Ham are in an awful state.

I still think we will just be fine. It’s then a big decision for the owners either way in the summer on what they do with Smith.

I do think Terry will go in the summer either way.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ASHTONVILLA on February 23, 2020, 04:18:04 PM
Big Sam would be a massive improvement. Where is this mythical 'right style' of football? All I see is us looking shit and getting beat all the time. Taylor got labelled a long ball merchant, but I sure enjoyed watching his team more than this turgid rubbish.

Big Sam knows how to use flair players like Grealish and knows how to organise a defense.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Luke8 on February 23, 2020, 04:19:30 PM
Quote from: GarTomas on February 23, 2020, 04:09:17 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on February 23, 2020, 04:02:49 PM
Quote from: GarTomas on February 23, 2020, 03:59:04 PM
This whole year was always going to be shit or bust as we got promoted a year earlier than expected. We’re not adrift. We’ve got 11 games left and probably need to find 3/4 wins and some draws.

Not out of it by any stretch.
You're absolutely right, we aren't.  But other clubs must be licking their lips at the thought of playing us at the moment.  3 or 4 wins out of the games we have left is a very tall order.  But not impossible.  Something's going to have to change very soon though.

We went toe to toe with Tottenham and had we been more clinical would of won.

Chelsea, Man U and Arsenal at home. I could see us getting on paper unlikely points from all those games.

Watford’s revival seems to have losts its wings. Norwich are done. West Ham are in an awful state.

I still think we will just be fine. It’s then a big decision for the owners either way in the summer on what they do with Smith.

I do think Terry will go in the summer either way.

I would broadly agree with that. It’s the fact that we are maddeningly inconsistent from game to game - and even with games -  that is the problem. If we had put in the performance from the Tottenham game in yesterday, I certainly don’t think we would have lost.

And also, as you mention, while we don’t want to rely on other teams, pretty much everyone else is at least as bad as us. In fact, out of the bottom eight, only Watford (due to their decent run when Pearson took over) have taken more points than us from the last ten games.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: itbrvilla on February 23, 2020, 04:23:13 PM
Quote from: GarTomas on February 23, 2020, 04:09:17 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on February 23, 2020, 04:02:49 PM
Quote from: GarTomas on February 23, 2020, 03:59:04 PM
This whole year was always going to be shit or bust as we got promoted a year earlier than expected. We’re not adrift. We’ve got 11 games left and probably need to find 3/4 wins and some draws.

Not out of it by any stretch.
You're absolutely right, we aren't.  But other clubs must be licking their lips at the thought of playing us at the moment.  3 or 4 wins out of the games we have left is a very tall order.  But not impossible.  Something's going to have to change very soon though.

We went toe to toe with Tottenham and had we been more clinical would of won.
we really didn't. If Spurs were more clinical or Reina wasn't at his best they'd of had 5-6. Other than AEG long range effort... What else did Lloris have to do?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 23, 2020, 04:23:58 PM
Luiz missed a sitter that should have made it two nil.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on February 23, 2020, 04:24:54 PM
Quote from: Luke8 on February 23, 2020, 04:19:30 PM
And also, as you mention, while we don’t want to rely on other teams, pretty much everyone else is at least as bad as us. In fact, out of the bottom eight, only Watford (due to their decent run when Pearson took over) have taken more points than us from the last ten games.
And over the last three games, all of our relegation rivals have taken more points than us.  It's possible to spin this whatever way you want.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on February 23, 2020, 04:28:47 PM
Quote from: itbrvilla on February 23, 2020, 04:23:13 PM
Quote from: GarTomas on February 23, 2020, 04:09:17 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on February 23, 2020, 04:02:49 PM
Quote from: GarTomas on February 23, 2020, 03:59:04 PM
This whole year was always going to be shit or bust as we got promoted a year earlier than expected. We’re not adrift. We’ve got 11 games left and probably need to find 3/4 wins and some draws.

Not out of it by any stretch.
You're absolutely right, we aren't.  But other clubs must be licking their lips at the thought of playing us at the moment.  3 or 4 wins out of the games we have left is a very tall order.  But not impossible.  Something's going to have to change very soon though.

We went toe to toe with Tottenham and had we been more clinical would of won.
we really didn't. If Spurs were more clinical or Reina wasn't at his best they'd of had 5-6. Other than AEG long range effort... What else did Lloris have to do?

Luiz from a couple of yards for a start. Are you honestly suggesting we shouldn't have been 2-3 up by the time they scored?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on February 23, 2020, 04:29:31 PM
Most frustrating thing for me is we've followed up two fantastic late wins v Watford and Leicester with three straight defeats. And all three games were ones we could've got at least a point in.

Majority of other teams would've produced a solid unbeaten run on the back of those two confidence boosting wins. Only have to look at Burnley. Terrible against us on New Years day. barely lost a game since then and they've played most of the leagues better teams in the last two months.

Seen ever since O'Neill walked the whole club has been unable to build on any kind of momentum. Look back to the McLeish season, great 3-1 away win to Chelsea, lost at home to Swansea two days later.

Lambert years had odd goal result like winning at Anfield in September 2014. We next won a league game in December.

Seems to have haunted us for years we simply can't kick on as a club. Again euphoria from promotion but can't quite get the results from start of the season so we've spent the whole season hovering between 15th-19th and simply can't kick on from that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 23, 2020, 04:37:15 PM
Quote from: Big Ming on February 23, 2020, 11:23:38 AM
Question:

Dean Smith is responsible for coaching/tactics/match day selection/ team motivation.

Suso is responsible for getting the best players for the money available which means all of our signings since he took the job.

Who do you blame most and how long do you stick with a failing system?
Smith, he is part of the recruitment process, he is getting nowhere Near enough out of this squad.
His tactics and game management has been mainly awful.
How long?
It’s all ready to late.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Luke8 on February 23, 2020, 04:50:42 PM
Quote from: ez on February 23, 2020, 03:55:57 PM

Ok I was wrong on Mings already being with us. The point I was making is we wont have these players if we go down.

Fair enough. That’s true, but while it would be devastating, we would have an awful lot of money to replace them/rebuild with.

More thankfully, that hasn’t happened yet - so here is very much hoping we stay up and it’s never a problem!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Flin5tone on February 23, 2020, 04:57:01 PM
Maybe bring back Martin O'Neil, most successful manager in recent times,knows the club and could bring the buzz back to Villa Park

One of many options out there
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Luke8 on February 23, 2020, 04:59:22 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on February 23, 2020, 04:24:54 PM
Quote from: Luke8 on February 23, 2020, 04:19:30 PM
And also, as you mention, while we don’t want to rely on other teams, pretty much everyone else is at least as bad as us. In fact, out of the bottom eight, only Watford (due to their decent run when Pearson took over) have taken more points than us from the last ten games.
And over the last three games, all of our relegation rivals have taken more points than us.  It's possible to spin this whatever way you want.

Yet we are still importantly not in the relegation zone. You can indeed look at it however you like - I just felt the bigger sample size was more indicative of the inconsistent form/standard level of the teams around us.

My general point was, we were awful yesterday, but we are as likely to follow that up with a decent performance as we are another bad one. I wouldn’t necessarily expect us to win any of our games left but at the same time I’d give us a chance of getting something in everyone bar probably the Liverpool one.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on February 23, 2020, 05:00:13 PM
Quote from: ASHTONVILLA on February 23, 2020, 04:18:04 PM
Big Sam would be a massive improvement. Where is this mythical 'right style' of football? All I see is us looking shit and getting beat all the time. Taylor got labelled a long ball merchant, but I sure enjoyed watching his team more than this turgid rubbish.

Big Sam knows how to use flair players like Grealish and knows how to organise a defense.


So why's he been unemployed for nearly two years?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT on February 23, 2020, 05:13:55 PM
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on February 23, 2020, 05:00:13 PM
Quote from: ASHTONVILLA on February 23, 2020, 04:18:04 PM
Big Sam would be a massive improvement. Where is this mythical 'right style' of football? All I see is us looking shit and getting beat all the time. Taylor got labelled a long ball merchant, but I sure enjoyed watching his team more than this turgid rubbish.

Big Sam knows how to use flair players like Grealish and knows how to organise a defense.


So why's he been unemployed for nearly two years?

Shortage of brown C5 envelopes.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on February 23, 2020, 05:22:52 PM
Quote from: GarTomas on February 23, 2020, 04:09:17 PM
...  I still think we will just be fine. It’s then a big decision for the owners either way in the summer on what they do with Smith.
...
I admire your optimism (honest, I do).
For us to be in control of our season toward the end, something fundamental has to happen to (i) instill some fight and passion in our players, (ii) iron out the basic errors in our game, and (iii) adopt a more resilient approach, to make us harder to score against. That all this hasn't happened yet suggests the fundamental event is unlikely to happen, unless this weekend has become 'shit-or-bust' moment for all concerned.
At the moment, whilst the mathematics are still in our favour, I sense that the squad has almost come to accept that relegation is likely; and that Smith has run out of remedial ideas.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tomd2103 on February 23, 2020, 05:43:16 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on February 23, 2020, 04:29:31 PM
Most frustrating thing for me is we've followed up two fantastic late wins v Watford and Leicester with three straight defeats. And all three games were ones we could've got at least a point in.

Majority of other teams would've produced a solid unbeaten run on the back of those two confidence boosting wins. Only have to look at Burnley. Terrible against us on New Years day. barely lost a game since then and they've played most of the leagues better teams in the last two months.

Seen ever since O'Neill walked the whole club has been unable to build on any kind of momentum. Look back to the McLeish season, great 3-1 away win to Chelsea, lost at home to Swansea two days later.

Lambert years had odd goal result like winning at Anfield in September 2014. We next won a league game in December.

Seems to have haunted us for years we simply can't kick on as a club. Again euphoria from promotion but can't quite get the results from start of the season so we've spent the whole season hovering between 15th-19th and simply can't kick on from that.

I don't think the season was going too badly up until the league game against Leicester.  That was the first game where we got taken apart and the players seemed to give up a bit.  We have got the odd result here and there since then, but it has been a poor run on the whole. 

During the earlier part of the season up to the Leicester game where we were doing OK, we just couldn't put enough space between us and the bottom reaches of the league to give us a bit of a cushion if things went badly. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on February 23, 2020, 06:12:13 PM
It’s impossible to know if the biggest factor is the tactics or the players.

Based on Smith’s comments about transfers, before and during January, I said we had two valid options at that point - back Smith in January with more signings of his choosing, who fit his narrow repertoire of formations. Or, get someone in who can galvanise a limited squad and outthink opposition managers.

We did neither and that’s why we’re going down.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brassneck on February 23, 2020, 07:25:27 PM
Didn't Purslow state only last week that the club are behind Smith for the long term?  Hence his new, improved contract that he's only 3 months into.

Another interesting Purslow comment was that it takes 4 years to become competitive with the likes of Burnley, Bornemouth, Watford etc in terms of wages.

For me, the enormity of being relegated in 2016 (timing wise) is really beginning to hit home. 

Smith looks almost certain to be here for the long haul.  Why not accept this and get behind him - Even if it's not what you want to happen.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: N'ZMAV on February 23, 2020, 07:33:26 PM
Quote from: Brassneck on February 23, 2020, 07:25:27 PM
Didn't Purslow state only last week that the club are behind Smith for the long term?  Hence his new, improved contract that he's only 3 months into.
ah the dreaded vote of confidence.... we've seen those before....
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on February 23, 2020, 07:38:38 PM
The only opinions that matter are Wes and Nas. Purslow can only really carry out their orders and decisions until he is no longer required himself

This is where it starts to get tough for them as big decisions will have to be made in next six months even if we stay up.

The glory period is pretty much over (unless we produce a great cup final performance on Sunday) and once it ended for Lerner we rapidly descended into chaos due to the continual wrong decisions.

I think given the rocky period over xmas in which they stood right behind DS I imagine he'll still be manager in August whichever decision we'll be in. Poor start to the season and he'll be under big pressure but it was ever thus.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Smithy on February 23, 2020, 07:47:29 PM
I'm still behind Smith, and have everything crossed that he can keep us up and push on next season (I like the way we play under Dean when we're playing well - which is not often enough), but the lack of fight in the side on Saturday was really worrying.  I can forgive a team that is outplayed by a better side, or out-thought by a better manager (these are the top managers in the world, after all so I don't expect Dean to out-think the opposition every single week) - but what I can't forgive is a lack of effort.  By all means, make mistakes, but TRY.

It worries me that the players aren't fighting enough.  Now, whether that's down to Dean personally and his ability to motivate, or they just don't have enough bottle for a fight like this, I don't know - but it has to change, because another six or seven performances like yesterday and we'll go down with a whimper.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: David_Nab on February 23, 2020, 07:53:17 PM
Quote from: Brassneck on February 23, 2020, 07:25:27 PM
Didn't Purslow state only last week that the club are behind Smith for the long term?  Hence his new, improved contract that he's only 3 months into.

Another interesting Purslow comment was that it takes 4 years to become competitive with the likes of Burnley, Bornemouth, Watford etc in terms of wages.

For me, the enormity of being relegated in 2016 (timing wise) is really beginning to hit home. 

Smith looks almost certain to be here for the long haul.  Why not accept this and get behind him - Even if it's not what you want to happen.

Smith was Purslow choice so makes sense he will back him but should there be a need to remove Smith Purslow may find himself also looking for a job

Also every club who hires a manager has a long term plan hence the 3/4 year contracts ...few actually stay the distance ,its just the nature of the game.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on February 23, 2020, 07:55:58 PM
Quote from: ASHTONVILLA on February 23, 2020, 04:18:04 PM
Big Sam would be a massive improvement. Where is this mythical 'right style' of football? All I see is us looking shit and getting beat all the time. Taylor got labelled a long ball merchant, but I sure enjoyed watching his team more than this turgid rubbish.

Big Sam knows how to use flair players like Grealish and knows how to organise a defense.


Id rather go down than have him at the helm

I hated every minute of Bruce's  time with us so another British dinosaur would be like being transported back to Hell for me
I know it's not great at the moment in fact it's a lot shit but fuck me every time we might need a manager it's the same old gravy chain done nothing big Sam that gets bigger up

after all we have been through with Mcleish, Lambert, Bruce will we never learn that nothing good comes of employing managers like them it just takes years and years to get over them
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on February 23, 2020, 08:03:19 PM
If we go down, it could also take years to get over it. Personally I don’t want a “fat Sam” type of manager, but I am fast losing patience with the manager we do have.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on February 23, 2020, 10:11:55 PM
I don’t want bent Sam but I get the argument for a short term fix because relegation will be devastating.

The kind of job Pearson did at Watford, bit of discipline and new manager bounce for 3-4 games, is enough to get us over there line from where we are.

Academic though, I agree it won’t happen.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 23, 2020, 10:14:43 PM
I think Sunday could decide his future.
Humiliation and they will have to act.
A plucky loser medal and he gets to fight another day.
Win and it’s an open top bus ride for the rest of the season, regardless
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ROBBO on February 23, 2020, 10:57:41 PM
Buying the likes of Trez is puzzling, surely the first requirement for a winger is speed and yet we saw perfect examples of him on Saturday trying to get past his full back who was much quicker. We have a winger out on loan who is quicker.
The main worry on Saturday was the lack of fight and we saw the reaction from Mings and Grealish watching the lack of desire from their team mates.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on February 23, 2020, 10:59:05 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 23, 2020, 10:14:43 PM
I think Sunday could decide his future.
Humiliation and they will have to act.
A plucky loser medal and he gets to fight another day.
Win and it’s an open top bus ride for the rest of the season, regardless

I honestly don't think they'll act regardless.

Every game has been a free hit for him thus far, why draw the line at a virtually unwinnable cup final
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Des Little on February 23, 2020, 11:12:03 PM
I really think we need to change it and play with someone (Jack) much closer to Samatta. To do this I’d bin both El Ghazi and Trez and play another midfielder, Hourihane most likely to give us more strength in there - yesterday they came straight through us. Personally I’d play Elmo on the right of the 5 man midfield, he has a decent cross on him, as has Targett.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: rougegorge on February 23, 2020, 11:22:23 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on February 23, 2020, 10:59:05 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 23, 2020, 10:14:43 PM
I think Sunday could decide his future.
Humiliation and they will have to act.
A plucky loser medal and he gets to fight another day.
Win and it’s an open top bus ride for the rest of the season, regardless

I honestly don't think they'll act regardless.

Every game has been a free hit for him thus far, why draw the line at a virtually unwinnable cup final
This is part of the problem. He should not be afforded extra favours, just because he's a fan. Regardless of the results, his brand of football hasn't been good and following them away has been particularly painfully repetitive. Any of the good football we have seen has been almost solely down to Jack.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on February 23, 2020, 11:49:46 PM
Quote from: rougegorge on February 23, 2020, 11:22:23 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on February 23, 2020, 10:59:05 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 23, 2020, 10:14:43 PM
I think Sunday could decide his future.
Humiliation and they will have to act.
A plucky loser medal and he gets to fight another day.
Win and it’s an open top bus ride for the rest of the season, regardless

I honestly don't think they'll act regardless.

Every game has been a free hit for him thus far, why draw the line at a virtually unwinnable cup final
This is part of the problem. He should not be afforded extra favours, just because he's a fan. Regardless of the results, his brand of football hasn't been good and following them away has been particularly painfully repetitive. Any of the good football we have seen has been almost solely down to Jack.

How do you know he's being given 'extra favours' because he's a fan?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT Villan on February 24, 2020, 01:51:53 AM
Next league game I would like to see us try a 4-1-4-1 with Nakamba as DM, Conor, Jack, Luiz and either AEG/Trez in midfield and Samagoal up top. SJM to replace AEG/Trez when he's fit.

Not sure this would work against City as they have too many skillful ball players and we would likely be ripped apart.

                                                 Samatta
                                                    Jack
                             Conor              Luiz                SJM/AEG/Trez
                                                Nakamba
                    Targett           Mings         Engels         Elmo/Fred

Narrow without the ball (Jack drops in beside Luiz) and more expansive with it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OzVilla on February 24, 2020, 05:26:11 AM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on February 23, 2020, 11:49:46 PM
Quote from: rougegorge on February 23, 2020, 11:22:23 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on February 23, 2020, 10:59:05 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 23, 2020, 10:14:43 PM
I think Sunday could decide his future.
Humiliation and they will have to act.
A plucky loser medal and he gets to fight another day.
Win and it’s an open top bus ride for the rest of the season, regardless

I honestly don't think they'll act regardless.

Every game has been a free hit for him thus far, why draw the line at a virtually unwinnable cup final
This is part of the problem. He should not be afforded extra favours, just because he's a fan. Regardless of the results, his brand of football hasn't been good and following them away has been particularly painfully repetitive. Any of the good football we have seen has been almost solely down to Jack.

How do you know he's being given 'extra favours' because he's a fan?

Personally, I think Smith might get slightly more leeway being a fan from the perspective that the romance of the Smith and Grealish as manager and captain partnership is a marketers dream and allows a much greater connection between the playing side and the supporters - "he's own of our own" and all that. I can see why the club would really want this to work out. 

Also because Smith does have that personal connection there may be a reluctance of the Board to act sooner for fear of fracturing the supporter base.  I'm not saying this gives Smith a free pass but I think it might go towards him getting the benefit of the doubt in a tough stick or twist type call.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ROBBO on February 24, 2020, 06:28:21 AM
I was one who thought Hause should be given his chance but after watching him for the last few games he is too indecisive to be a central defender much prefer Engels.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: andyh on February 24, 2020, 06:54:02 AM
Quote from: Des Little on February 23, 2020, 11:12:03 PM
I really think we need to change it and play with someone (Jack) much closer to Samatta. To do this I’d bin both El Ghazi and Trez and play another midfielder, Hourihane most likely to give us more strength in there - yesterday they came straight through us. Personally I’d play Elmo on the right of the 5 man midfield, he has a decent cross on him, as has Targett.

Complete sense there.
 We need to change things and mix it up a bit. Plus drop the deadest of the deadwood.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 24, 2020, 07:02:04 AM
Quote from: Des Little on February 23, 2020, 11:12:03 PM
I really think we need to change it and play with someone (Jack) much closer to Samatta. To do this I’d bin both El Ghazi and Trez and play another midfielder, Hourihane most likely to give us more strength in there - yesterday they came straight through us. Personally I’d play Elmo on the right of the 5 man midfield, he has a decent cross on him, as has Targett.
I agree but do you honestly believe that he is capable of being that radical.
Teams have been coming strait through us all season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on February 24, 2020, 07:14:11 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 24, 2020, 07:02:04 AM
Quote from: Des Little on February 23, 2020, 11:12:03 PM
I really think we need to change it and play with someone (Jack) much closer to Samatta. To do this I’d bin both El Ghazi and Trez and play another midfielder, Hourihane most likely to give us more strength in there - yesterday they came straight through us. Personally I’d play Elmo on the right of the 5 man midfield, he has a decent cross on him, as has Targett.
I agree but do you honestly believe that he is capable of being that radical.
Teams have been coming strait through us all season.
They have since McGinn got injured.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 24, 2020, 07:20:54 AM
Quote from: The Edge on February 24, 2020, 07:14:11 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 24, 2020, 07:02:04 AM
Quote from: Des Little on February 23, 2020, 11:12:03 PM
I really think we need to change it and play with someone (Jack) much closer to Samatta. To do this I’d bin both El Ghazi and Trez and play another midfielder, Hourihane most likely to give us more strength in there - yesterday they came straight through us. Personally I’d play Elmo on the right of the 5 man midfield, he has a decent cross on him, as has Targett.
I agree but do you honestly believe that he is capable of being that radical.
Teams have been coming strait through us all season.
They have since McGinn got injured.
they were before as well.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on February 24, 2020, 08:38:36 AM
We can talk about players and formations, but the essential thing lacking is a clear playing style and discipline. It's been written over many posts on this site: we require high levels of fitness, energy, accuracy and ball retention.
Midfielders tracking back, defenders where they're supposed to be, players moving into space, passers seeing the early pass, making the ball do the work, working your nuts off for the team ... in short, believing in the team, the club and the Project.

I know all that sounds trite, but it is not what we are doing!

I don't believe all our players are rubbish: I do believe that we are not doing the simple things well enough.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on February 24, 2020, 08:50:01 AM
Too many hot and cold players. We’ve lost to teams like Bournemouth and Southampton not because they’re better footballers than us but because they played with more commitment and beat us to everything. Smith’s not off the hook, but those games are mostly on the players being powder puff.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on February 24, 2020, 09:02:56 AM
how can the manager ever be off the hook?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Demitri_C on February 24, 2020, 09:55:54 AM
Quote from: themossman on February 24, 2020, 08:50:01 AM
Too many hot and cold players. We’ve lost to teams like Bournemouth and Southampton not because they’re better footballers than us but because they played with more commitment and beat us to everything. Smith’s not off the hook, but those games are mostly on the players being powder puff.

I agree. I think the managers tactics ard amssively to blame. Playing 5 at the back has been a disaster yet he persists with it when you only have mings who plays well as a cb in that system.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 24, 2020, 09:57:29 AM
The three at the back has worked in certain games, just as 4 at the back has in certain games.  What Smith needs to learn is when to play each formation.  The one size fits all approach is a load of bollocks, and shows just how limited he is.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on February 24, 2020, 10:03:30 AM
Quote from: Des Little on February 23, 2020, 11:12:03 PM
I really think we need to change it and play with someone (Jack) much closer to Samatta. To do this I’d bin both El Ghazi and Trez and play another midfielder, Hourihane most likely to give us more strength in there - yesterday they came straight through us. Personally I’d play Elmo on the right of the 5 man midfield, he has a decent cross on him, as has Targett.


Elmo played in the back 5 last time we played Man City didn’t work out to good as I remember bloke looked like a lost soul but wasn’t the only one
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on February 24, 2020, 10:05:00 AM
Quote from: Risso on February 24, 2020, 09:57:29 AM
The three at the back has worked in certain games, just as 4 at the back has in certain games.  What Smith needs to learn is when to play each formation.  The one size fits all approach is a load of bollocks, and shows just how limited he is.
Not many teams switch regulallry between 3 and 4 at the back and I'm not convinced our squad has the experience or maturity to keep doing that.  We lack organisation as it is without constantly switching defensive formations.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 24, 2020, 10:07:13 AM
Quote from: chrisw1 on February 24, 2020, 10:05:00 AM
Quote from: Risso on February 24, 2020, 09:57:29 AM
The three at the back has worked in certain games, just as 4 at the back has in certain games.  What Smith needs to learn is when to play each formation.  The one size fits all approach is a load of bollocks, and shows just how limited he is.
Not many teams switch regulallry between 3 and 4 at the back and I'm not convinced our squad has the experience or maturity to keep doing that.  We lack organisation as it is without constantly switching defensive formations.

You'll have to work hard to convince me that we could ever be any worse than we were against Southampton.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clark W Griswold on February 24, 2020, 10:17:29 AM
I still think for the most part we look more solid with the 3 CB and wing backs and it suits the players we have in the squad. OK, we have conceded 5 in the last 2 but that does include a dodgey pen, an individual fuck up that wouldn't happen often and a last minute throw everyone up the other end and got caught out. Man City was certainly a bad example but for the most part it looks fine. What i don't like, and never have is this silly three pronged attack up the other end where everyone is spread out miles apart. This is even more pointless whilst playing with wing backs as they are supposed to give you the width and put balls into the box. Playing the way we have been, we have 4 players out wide and one in the middle. We need to play the way we did under Little with a creative player in behind 2 strikers, someone who can provide and get into the box which is perfect for Grealish except i also think he can play as part of the front 2 and so with the players we have i think the best option would be Hourahane in behind Grealish and Samatta. Hourahane would do well in that role and he usually does well when we're on the front foot.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Demitri_C on February 24, 2020, 10:20:56 AM
Quote from: Risso on February 24, 2020, 09:57:29 AM
The three at the back has worked in certain games, just as 4 at the back has in certain games.  What Smith needs to learn is when to play each formation.  The one size fits all approach is a load of bollocks, and shows just how limited he is.

Seems to have worked for less games than it hasnt and when we played four at the back though mart.

I agree though with your point for when he needs to learn when ro play each formation.

I put that siants perfoemance up with thag shit Watford away one and the home game against saints.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Allan C on February 24, 2020, 10:22:13 AM
Quote from: john e on February 23, 2020, 07:55:58 PM
Quote from: ASHTONVILLA on February 23, 2020, 04:18:04 PM
Big Sam would be a massive improvement. Where is this mythical 'right style' of football? All I see is us looking shit and getting beat all the time. Taylor got labelled a long ball merchant, but I sure enjoyed watching his team more than this turgid rubbish.

Big Sam knows how to use flair players like Grealish and knows how to organise a defense.


Id rather go down than have him at the helm

I hated every minute of Bruce's  time with us so another British dinosaur would be like being transported back to Hell for me
I know it's not great at the moment in fact it's a lot shit but fuck me every time we might need a manager it's the same old gravy chain done nothing big Sam that gets bigger up

after all we have been through with Mcleish, Lambert, Bruce will we never learn that nothing good comes of employing managers like them it just takes years and years to get over them
Absolutely 100% spot on. The same old names trotted out which shows a total lack of ambition in my opinion
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 24, 2020, 10:23:24 AM
It might take years and years to get over Smith at this rate.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on February 24, 2020, 10:30:54 AM
Quote from: Risso on February 24, 2020, 10:07:13 AM
Quote from: chrisw1 on February 24, 2020, 10:05:00 AM
Quote from: Risso on February 24, 2020, 09:57:29 AM
The three at the back has worked in certain games, just as 4 at the back has in certain games.  What Smith needs to learn is when to play each formation.  The one size fits all approach is a load of bollocks, and shows just how limited he is.
Not many teams switch regulallry between 3 and 4 at the back and I'm not convinced our squad has the experience or maturity to keep doing that.  We lack organisation as it is without constantly switching defensive formations.

You'll have to work hard to convince me that we could ever be any worse than we were against Southampton.
I'm not trying to.  I'm saying constantly switching formations as you seem to be suggesting isn't necessarily the answer.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clark W Griswold on February 24, 2020, 10:31:52 AM
Nah, would sooner stay up with Alladyce, pay him off well and then get someone else in than get relegated with Smith. That's not to say that if we took those steps it'll definately pan out that way.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on February 24, 2020, 10:50:57 AM
Quote from: Risso on February 24, 2020, 10:23:24 AM
It might take years and years to get over Smith at this rate.

maybe so why go for more of the same
it’s got us nowhere in the past and will get us nowhere in the future
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Demitri_C on February 24, 2020, 11:07:30 AM
Funny Southampton have reports this morning that they are going to offer their manager a new deal after he confirms safety for them.

Why the hell did we give him a  new deal so soon in the season? Now the compensation will be huge if this form does not improve.

Id go for hughton personally.  Was desperately unlucky to get sacked at brighton. Also he is very defensively minded.  He could sort this back four out. Always liked hughton
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on February 24, 2020, 11:26:48 AM
We're 17th and our form has dropped again; I've not watched the 'highlights' of the weekend because I don't like horror films. However, we're 17th which means 3 teams have been worse than us. I know we've a tough run of games, but so has everyone.

I ask these next questions in a non-confrontational manner but what were people expecting? That we would be sitting in the top half? How many more points should we have?

We could point to various games and say we could/should have done better etc. But the reality is we'd always be struggling against all the teams given our circumstances at the beginning of the season.

If you forget the amount of money we spent in the summer as a one-off splurge, and compare squad values, I suspect you'd find us fairly low down (bar the fact we have two gems in Grealish and McGinn).

I'm not saying I'm happy, or that it's easy. But also, I don't believe we're doomed either.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan82 on February 24, 2020, 11:33:22 AM
Quote from: Drummond on February 24, 2020, 11:26:48 AM


I ask these next questions in a non-confrontational manner but what were people expecting? That we would be sitting in the top half? How many more points should we have?


I was expecting that we wouldn't throw so many points away- Arsenal away being a prime example and how many times have we played against ten men and come away with zero points?

We knew it wouldn't be easy but we didn't think we would be our own worst enemies as we have been in a good few games. We are 4-5 points behind where we should be given the circumstances in several games we should have took something from.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on February 24, 2020, 11:37:22 AM
I understand your point and agree with some of what you have written. I would like a team that is prepared to fight and scrap at times. Its not getting defeated, its the manner of some of those defeats. We have all seen poor Villa teams, but the players as a minimum should compete, and at times it dosent look like we have done that.

Who is to blame, players, manager, tactics, coaching. I have never managed a football club, so what would I know? But at the moment its bad and to hope that the teams below us dont win, because we cant, shouldn't be the plan. I thought we would finish around 15th.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on February 24, 2020, 11:37:51 AM
Quote from: Drummond on February 24, 2020, 11:26:48 AM
We're 17th and our form has dropped again; I've not watched the 'highlights' of the weekend because I don't like horror films. However, we're 17th which means 3 teams have been worse than us. I know we've a tough run of games, but so has everyone.

I ask these next questions in a non-confrontational manner but what were people expecting? That we would be sitting in the top half? How many more points should we have?

We could point to various games and say we could/should have done better etc. But the reality is we'd always be struggling against all the teams given our circumstances at the beginning of the season.

If you forget the amount of money we spent in the summer as a one-off splurge, and compare squad values, I suspect you'd find us fairly low down (bar the fact we have two gems in Grealish and McGinn).

I'm not saying I'm happy, or that it's easy. But also, I don't believe we're doomed either.

Quote from: Drummond on February 24, 2020, 11:26:48 AM
We're 17th and our form has dropped again; I've not watched the 'highlights' of the weekend because I don't like horror films. However, we're 17th which means 3 teams have been worse than us. I know we've a tough run of games, but so has everyone.

I ask these next questions in a non-confrontational manner but what were people expecting? That we would be sitting in the top half? How many more points should we have?

We could point to various games and say we could/should have done better etc. But the reality is we'd always be struggling against all the teams given our circumstances at the beginning of the season.

If you forget the amount of money we spent in the summer as a one-off splurge, and compare squad values, I suspect you'd find us fairly low down (bar the fact we have two gems in Grealish and McGinn).

I'm not saying I'm happy, or that it's easy. But also, I don't believe we're doomed either.


I get what your saying and agree to some extent

but to answer your question I was expecting better footballi under Smith and an ability to motivate players especially in the games where we have a better chance of points

I wasn’t expecting miracles but I was expecting more if I’m honest especially in the tactical side as we have been rubbish at times and Smith looks incapable of doing anything about it which is worrying me
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on February 24, 2020, 11:41:37 AM
Quote from: Drummond on February 24, 2020, 11:26:48 AM
We're 17th and our form has dropped again; I've not watched the 'highlights' of the weekend because I don't like horror films. However, we're 17th which means 3 teams have been worse than us. I know we've a tough run of games, but so has everyone.

I ask these next questions in a non-confrontational manner but what were people expecting? That we would be sitting in the top half? How many more points should we have?

We could point to various games and say we could/should have done better etc. But the reality is we'd always be struggling against all the teams given our circumstances at the beginning of the season.

If you forget the amount of money we spent in the summer as a one-off splurge, and compare squad values, I suspect you'd find us fairly low down (bar the fact we have two gems in Grealish and McGinn).

I'm not saying I'm happy, or that it's easy. But also, I don't believe we're doomed either.


It's the manner of it.

The lack of passion, desire, fight shown on Saturday was appalling. Smith said as much himself. It was clear from the offset that Southampton wanted to more, and that's just inexcusable.

I said before the season we'd finish 16th or 17th. I didn't envisage doing so with a whimper - and even that much is uncertain.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on February 24, 2020, 11:41:42 AM
Quote from: Villan82 on February 24, 2020, 11:33:22 AM
Quote from: Drummond on February 24, 2020, 11:26:48 AM


I ask these next questions in a non-confrontational manner but what were people expecting? That we would be sitting in the top half? How many more points should we have?


I was expecting that we wouldn't throw so many points away- Arsenal away being a prime example and how many times have we played against ten men and come away with zero points?

We knew it wouldn't be easy but we didn't think we would be our own worst enemies as we have been in a good few games. We are 4-5 points behind where we should be given the circumstances in several games we should have took something from.

4 -5  points would still have us looking over our shoulder.

There have been various individual errors that have cost us by everyone in the team, even Grealish dilly-dallied on the ball earlier in the season and cost us. Everyone is still learning to cope.

The waves are getting stronger and we're still learning to swim.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on February 24, 2020, 11:44:18 AM
Quote from: Three Spires Villa on February 24, 2020, 11:37:22 AM
I understand your point and agree with some of what you have written. I would like a team that is prepared to fight and scrap at times. Its not getting defeated, its the manner of some of those defeats. We have all seen poor Villa teams, but the players as a minimum should compete, and at times it dosent look like we have done that.

Who is to blame, players, manager, tactics, coaching. I have never managed a football club, so what would I know? But at the moment its bad and to hope that the teams below us dont win, because we cant, shouldn't be the plan. I thought we would finish around 15th.

We still could finish 15th. It's tough though, we could equally finish 19th.

It's tough when everyone is learning together and the other sides are ahead of the game. We started so far behind all the other teams, the surprise for me is that we're still as well off as we are.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on February 24, 2020, 11:45:59 AM
Quote from: john e on February 24, 2020, 11:37:51 AM

I get what your saying and agree to some extent

but to answer your question I was expecting better footballi under Smith and an ability to motivate players especially in the games where we have a better chance of points

I wasn’t expecting miracles but I was expecting more if I’m honest especially in the tactical side as we have been rubbish at times and Smith looks incapable of doing anything about it which is worrying me

I was hoping for better football, and we've seen it in patches, the difficulty is that we're now in the top league against better players and coaches who often know how to negate it better.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan82 on February 24, 2020, 11:49:22 AM
Quote from: Drummond on February 24, 2020, 11:41:42 AM
Quote from: Villan82 on February 24, 2020, 11:33:22 AM
Quote from: Drummond on February 24, 2020, 11:26:48 AM


I ask these next questions in a non-confrontational manner but what were people expecting? That we would be sitting in the top half? How many more points should we have?


I was expecting that we wouldn't throw so many points away- Arsenal away being a prime example and how many times have we played against ten men and come away with zero points?

We knew it wouldn't be easy but we didn't think we would be our own worst enemies as we have been in a good few games. We are 4-5 points behind where we should be given the circumstances in several games we should have took something from.

4 -5  points would still have us looking over our shoulder.

There have been various individual errors that have cost us by everyone in the team, even Grealish dilly-dallied on the ball earlier in the season and cost us. Everyone is still learning to cope.

The waves are getting stronger and we're still learning to swim.

Eh, sorry, but 4-5 points would be massive right now. If we were on 30 points right now 2 more wins would probably keep us up. Instead, we need to make up those 4-5 points plus the two further wins.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 24, 2020, 11:54:19 AM
Quote from: Drummond on February 24, 2020, 11:45:59 AM
Quote from: john e on February 24, 2020, 11:37:51 AM

I get what your saying and agree to some extent

but to answer your question I was expecting better footballi under Smith and an ability to motivate players especially in the games where we have a better chance of points

I wasn’t expecting miracles but I was expecting more if I’m honest especially in the tactical side as we have been rubbish at times and Smith looks incapable of doing anything about it which is worrying me

I was hoping for better football, and we've seen it in patches, the difficulty is that we're now in the top league against better players and coaches who often know how to negate it better.

Which is why Smith should have been sacked a while ago, and a coach capable of managing at this level appointed.  Dean will go back to being a half decent Championship level coach, which is where his talents should be really.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 24, 2020, 11:55:54 AM
I expected the team to compete, I expected to see a midfield, I expected the manager to identify problems and try and solve them. I expected us to have more points. I expected us to at least be able to compete against the might of Southampton and fucking Bournemouth.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on February 24, 2020, 12:02:14 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 24, 2020, 11:44:18 AM
Quote from: Three Spires Villa on February 24, 2020, 11:37:22 AM
I understand your point and agree with some of what you have written. I would like a team that is prepared to fight and scrap at times. Its not getting defeated, its the manner of some of those defeats. We have all seen poor Villa teams, but the players as a minimum should compete, and at times it dosent look like we have done that.

Who is to blame, players, manager, tactics, coaching. I have never managed a football club, so what would I know? But at the moment its bad and to hope that the teams below us dont win, because we cant, shouldn't be the plan. I thought we would finish around 15th.

We still could finish 15th. It's tough though, we could equally finish 19th.

It's tough when everyone is learning together and the other sides are ahead of the game. We started so far behind all the other teams, the surprise for me is that we're still as well off as we are.

Yes and that is is part of the problem. Not enough experience on the pitch or on the touchline. The gamble is looking like it wont payoff. Yes there are 3 teams below us, but only a point keeps us out of the relegation, and before anyone says it know it it finishes like that, we stay up. I would rather have 4 or 5 more points, it would make me feel better.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on February 24, 2020, 12:05:04 PM
I agree that we're about 5 points short of what i expected. I predicted about 14th at the start of the season and those 5 points would put us right in that area. If you look at some of the harsh decisions that have gone against us and not really been balanced out I don't think our performances have been a long way from that which is why I think all the comments about us having a championship squad (other than 3-4 exceptions) and writing of 5-6 of the summer signings as shit and needing to be replaced is a bit too 'knee-jerk' for me.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on February 24, 2020, 12:05:44 PM
Quote from: Three Spires Villa on February 24, 2020, 12:02:14 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 24, 2020, 11:44:18 AM
Quote from: Three Spires Villa on February 24, 2020, 11:37:22 AM
I understand your point and agree with some of what you have written. I would like a team that is prepared to fight and scrap at times. Its not getting defeated, its the manner of some of those defeats. We have all seen poor Villa teams, but the players as a minimum should compete, and at times it dosent look like we have done that.

Who is to blame, players, manager, tactics, coaching. I have never managed a football club, so what would I know? But at the moment its bad and to hope that the teams below us dont win, because we cant, shouldn't be the plan. I thought we would finish around 15th.

We still could finish 15th. It's tough though, we could equally finish 19th.

It's tough when everyone is learning together and the other sides are ahead of the game. We started so far behind all the other teams, the surprise for me is that we're still as well off as we are.

Yes and that is is part of the problem. Not enough experience on the pitch or on the touchline. The gamble is looking like it wont payoff. Yes there are 3 teams below us, but only a point keeps us out of the relegation, and before anyone says it know it it finishes like that, we stay up. I would rather have 4 or 5 more points, it would make me feel better.

We'd all feel better with more points. It will be really fucking galling to go down by a point or two when you look at the games where we've thrown a couple of points away.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on February 24, 2020, 12:09:17 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 24, 2020, 11:55:54 AM
I expected the team to compete, I expected to see a midfield, I expected the manager to identify problems and try and solve them. I expected us to have more points. I expected us to at least be able to compete against the might of Southampton and fucking Bournemouth.

We have competed in most games.

Our midfield has been surprisingly lacklustre, I'd agree, not helped by losing McGinn; it's overall just been too inconsistent.

How many more points did you expect us to have?

We've had some shit performances, but I expected us to lose games against teams like Southampton, Burnley and Bournemouth. It's the nature of the league. We just should have hung on in a couple more games.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on February 24, 2020, 12:12:08 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 24, 2020, 11:54:19 AM
Quote from: Drummond on February 24, 2020, 11:45:59 AM
Quote from: john e on February 24, 2020, 11:37:51 AM

I get what your saying and agree to some extent

but to answer your question I was expecting better footballi under Smith and an ability to motivate players especially in the games where we have a better chance of points

I wasn’t expecting miracles but I was expecting more if I’m honest especially in the tactical side as we have been rubbish at times and Smith looks incapable of doing anything about it which is worrying me

I was hoping for better football, and we've seen it in patches, the difficulty is that we're now in the top league against better players and coaches who often know how to negate it better.

Which is why Smith should have been sacked a while ago, and a coach capable of managing at this level appointed.  Dean will go back to being a half decent Championship level coach, which is where his talents should be really.

Maybe he's learning too, and the tools he's been presented with maybe haven't helped him.

I'd suspect, if he were sacked, he'd get someone else promoted too.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Duncan Shaw on February 24, 2020, 12:19:06 PM
I had hoped he would learn how to become a Premier League manager as the season progressed in the same way he has challenged the players to rise to the occasion.  The thing that bugs me is he talks after narrowly losing to Spurs that these games aren't the ones that define our season, but competing against the teams around us will (e.g. this week) but it is those games he and his team have failed to get the appropriate performance levels out of the team.  Play like we did last week against Saints and we'd have probably come away with at least a point, but again they never turned up when it mattered. This he needs to change.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on February 24, 2020, 12:34:49 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 24, 2020, 12:12:08 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 24, 2020, 11:54:19 AM
Quote from: Drummond on February 24, 2020, 11:45:59 AM
Quote from: john e on February 24, 2020, 11:37:51 AM

I get what your saying and agree to some extent

but to answer your question I was expecting better footballi under Smith and an ability to motivate players especially in the games where we have a better chance of points

I wasn’t expecting miracles but I was expecting more if I’m honest especially in the tactical side as we have been rubbish at times and Smith looks incapable of doing anything about it which is worrying me

I was hoping for better football, and we've seen it in patches, the difficulty is that we're now in the top league against better players and coaches who often know how to negate it better.

Which is why Smith should have been sacked a while ago, and a coach capable of managing at this level appointed.  Dean will go back to being a half decent Championship level coach, which is where his talents should be really.

Maybe he's learning too, and the tools he's been presented with maybe haven't helped him.

I'd suspect, if he were sacked, he'd get someone else promoted too.
Didn't quite get Brentford there and they seem to be doing very nicely without him ….maybe he might become a top flight manager, who knows, but I really think the owners got it wrong keeping him on board and my worry is they see him as the right man to get us back up if we go down again (potentially minus our top 3 or 4 players). Or maybe I, like many others had expectations that weren't realistic or attainable, however given the funds available, we have managed to buy some bang average players, not of the standard to excel in the top flight.
Sometimes in life we have to step backwards to then progress forward again … I just wonder and fear what the consequences will be if we go down again..... 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 24, 2020, 12:38:21 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 24, 2020, 12:12:08 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 24, 2020, 11:54:19 AM
Quote from: Drummond on February 24, 2020, 11:45:59 AM
Quote from: john e on February 24, 2020, 11:37:51 AM

I get what your saying and agree to some extent

but to answer your question I was expecting better footballi under Smith and an ability to motivate players especially in the games where we have a better chance of points

I wasn’t expecting miracles but I was expecting more if I’m honest especially in the tactical side as we have been rubbish at times and Smith looks incapable of doing anything about it which is worrying me

I was hoping for better football, and we've seen it in patches, the difficulty is that we're now in the top league against better players and coaches who often know how to negate it better.

Which is why Smith should have been sacked a while ago, and a coach capable of managing at this level appointed.  Dean will go back to being a half decent Championship level coach, which is where his talents should be really.

Maybe he's learning too, and the tools he's been presented with maybe haven't helped him.

I'd suspect, if he were sacked, he'd get someone else promoted too.

He's only ever managed it with a team that contained Grealish, Mings and McGinn.  Never even looked like coming close before.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ketzster on February 24, 2020, 01:04:17 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 24, 2020, 12:38:21 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 24, 2020, 12:12:08 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 24, 2020, 11:54:19 AM
Quote from: Drummond on February 24, 2020, 11:45:59 AM
Quote from: john e on February 24, 2020, 11:37:51 AM

I get what your saying and agree to some extent

but to answer your question I was expecting better footballi under Smith and an ability to motivate players especially in the games where we have a better chance of points

I wasn’t expecting miracles but I was expecting more if I’m honest especially in the tactical side as we have been rubbish at times and Smith looks incapable of doing anything about it which is worrying me

I was hoping for better football, and we've seen it in patches, the difficulty is that we're now in the top league against better players and coaches who often know how to negate it better.

Which is why Smith should have been sacked a while ago, and a coach capable of managing at this level appointed.  Dean will go back to being a half decent Championship level coach, which is where his talents should be really.

Maybe he's learning too, and the tools he's been presented with maybe haven't helped him.

I'd suspect, if he were sacked, he'd get someone else promoted too.

He's only ever managed it with a team that contained Grealish, Mings and McGinn.  Never even looked like coming close before.

Yes and he didn’t look like doing it without Grealish last year. So bearing in mind Grealish will leave in the summer, absolutely no way do I want Smith to be given a chance to bring us back up if we go down. We would struggle up to October when he inevitably gets the sack and then it would be too late again to do anything
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 24, 2020, 01:07:15 PM
Post when we're losing,
You only post when we're losing!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on February 24, 2020, 01:47:34 PM
Quote from: Ads on February 24, 2020, 01:07:15 PM
Post when we're losing,
You only post when we're losing!
Just reminded me of something …. my neighbour was complaining about my dog (Marley) howling on Saturday evening after yet another Villa defeat

"what does he do when you win?" the neighbour asked

" I don't know mate, I've only had him 7 months "

:) ok, not totally accurate result wise, but you get my drift
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on February 24, 2020, 01:47:48 PM
Ha! This place would be extremely quiet if we only posted when we'd won.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on February 24, 2020, 02:09:30 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on February 24, 2020, 01:47:48 PM
Ha! This place would be extremely quiet if we only posted when we'd won.

I think he was posting about the sudden reappearance of ketzster.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: JUAN PABLO on February 24, 2020, 02:28:25 PM
Quote from: Richard E on February 22, 2020, 06:25:47 PM
Trez has been woeful all season, he’s just a headless chicken.

looked like that in the african cup when they were watching him

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Demitri_C on February 24, 2020, 02:30:10 PM
To pick up zero points against southamoton and bournmouth to me is criminal. Losing 3-0 tk ten men watford even worse.

When we got humiliated by city snith told us it wasnt about the points against the teams like city that will shape where we finiah but the teams  around us and our home games.

Well smith we are losing both at present despite you being heavily backed. You got a new contract but im sorry you ahvebt deserved it for our form since then. Its been nothing short of woeful.

How many bloody leads ard going to blow under your management? Would love to see a stat of many points we have dropped from a winning position
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 24, 2020, 02:36:16 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 24, 2020, 12:09:17 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 24, 2020, 11:55:54 AM
I expected the team to compete, I expected to see a midfield, I expected the manager to identify problems and try and solve them. I expected us to have more points. I expected us to at least be able to compete against the might of Southampton and fucking Bournemouth.

We have competed in most games.

Our midfield has been surprisingly lacklustre, I'd agree, not helped by losing McGinn; it's overall just been too inconsistent.

How many more points did you expect us to have?

We've had some shit performances, but I expected us to lose games against teams like Southampton, Burnley and Bournemouth. It's the nature of the league. We just should have hung on in a couple more games.
There have been too many games when we haven’t competed, I don’t need to list them.
And what has Smith done to deal with the porosity of the midfield after 27 games? Fuck all.
Yes not allways getting results against those teams is understandable, but not even getting a blow on them isn’t.
Smith is responsible for this team. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on February 24, 2020, 02:46:37 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 24, 2020, 12:09:17 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 24, 2020, 11:55:54 AM
I expected the team to compete, I expected to see a midfield, I expected the manager to identify problems and try and solve them. I expected us to have more points. I expected us to at least be able to compete against the might of Southampton and fucking Bournemouth.
We have competed in most games.
Our midfield has been surprisingly lacklustre, I'd agree, not helped by losing McGinn; it's overall just been too inconsistent.
How many more points did you expect us to have?
We've had some shit performances, but I expected us to lose games against teams like Southampton, Burnley and Bournemouth. It's the nature of the league. We just should have hung on in a couple more games.
It's the apparent lack of the basics that does it for me: we require high levels of fitness, energy, accuracy and ball retention; we need midfielders tracking back, defenders where they're supposed to be, players moving into space, passers seeing the early pass, making the ball do the work, working your nuts off for the team ... in short, believing in the team, the club and the Project.

We do not seem to be doing the simple things well enough ... and isn't that the minimum requirement of a professional team?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clark W Griswold on February 24, 2020, 03:45:05 PM
What fucks me off is that we continue to play with 2 out and out wingers and we don't have a consistently good winger at the club and haven't in the 3 years or more we've been playing it, with the exception of Snodgrass (i'm not counting Grealish in that as he's not a winger). Not only do they do very little in the final third but they're so powder puff that they keep giving the ball back to the opposition, it then as you rightly say, bypasses the porous centre mid which you would have hoped Smith would have addressed in January beyond signing Danny Cunting Drinkwater and then it falls back on the defence who actually aren't bad but struggle with the pressure they're constantly put under. Add to the fact that they're also quite young and inexperienced and make mistakes it's a recipe for disaster.
Teams largely just walk through us, McGinn being fit would have helped mind.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: exiled on the wirral! on February 24, 2020, 03:47:27 PM
One thing I didn't like on Saturday, was the fact we sent Reina up for that last corner. It's ok in a cup tie, but with the Goal Difference very tight, we could have done with losing 1-0 instead of 2. It might seem a minor thing in the grand scheme of things, but it just smacks of muddled thinking too me.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on February 24, 2020, 03:48:03 PM
Quote from: Mister E on February 24, 2020, 02:46:37 PM
It's the apparent lack of the basics that does it for me: we require high levels of fitness, energy, accuracy and ball retention; we need midfielders tracking back, defenders where they're supposed to be, players moving into space, passers seeing the early pass, making the ball do the work, working your nuts off for the team ... in short, believing in the team, the club and the Project.

We do not seem to be doing the simple things well enough ... and isn't that the minimum requirement of a professional team?

Damn right. I mentioned the other day, we finally scored from a corner. We've had hundreds of them throughout the season yet we may as well have kicked the ball out for a goal kick. Throw-ins are a great opportunity for us to give the ball back to the opposition. Basic stuff that hasn't improved throughout the season.

My only hope is Dean accidentally stumbles upon a winning formula. We've been carrying far too many passengers this season so it's no real shock we've struggled to pick up points. Why he's insisted on playing certain players that contribute near nothing (Trez and especially A&E) I have no idea. If the plan was to outscore the opposition, he's failed miserably. We have the worst defence in the league despite spending a fortune on it during the summer.

If our defence is a shambles, our midfield is a weekly pick'n'mix, chopping and changing with little effect. If we can suddenly become more solid in defence with greater protection from the midfield, we may just about scratch enough points to stay up. It's not rocket science, all good teams build from the back but Dean decided he'd do it differently and the results are there for all to see.

It could well be argued that too many of our players are either not good enough or not ready to perform to a high standard, week in, week out. Well Dean bought them and he's the man responsible for trying to get the best out of them. I thought he'd be a forward thinking Coach, something we've been crying out for for the last 20 odd years but sadly that doesn't appear to be the case.

As you rightly point out Mister E, we struggle with the basics and to reach the end of February in that state really is an embarrassment for all concerned. Something needs to change and it needs to change urgently. I hope Dean reads them the Riot Act and we see a more professional Aston Villa. Being at the biggest club in the Midlands and picking up massive salaries comes with expectations. My fear is far too many are far too comfortable and think life is good and we're too big to go down. We're not.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT on February 24, 2020, 06:02:32 PM
Quote from: exiled on the wirral! on February 24, 2020, 03:47:27 PM
One thing I didn't like on Saturday, was the fact we sent Reina up for that last corner. It's ok in a cup tie, but with the Goal Difference very tight, we could have done with losing 1-0 instead of 2. It might seem a minor thing in the grand scheme of things, but it just smacks of muddled thinking too me.

As soon as Reina started to run up, I looked over at the bench and must ad it, I didn't see a signal or sign from the coaching staff. He got to the halfway line and I looked again. Nobody moved.

I just assumed that was 100% on Pepe.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on February 24, 2020, 06:20:09 PM
If we'd/he'd scored we would be celebrating him today. I certainly don't blame him for trying.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: richtheholtender on February 24, 2020, 06:34:19 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on February 24, 2020, 06:20:09 PM
If we'd/he'd scored we would be celebrating him today. I certainly don't blame him for trying.


No but I do blame him for that snail paced jog back towards his open goal.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Flamingo Lane on February 24, 2020, 06:45:38 PM


Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on February 24, 2020, 06:20:09 PM
If we'd/he'd scored we would be celebrating him today. I certainly don't blame him for trying.
726264#msg3726264 date=1582568409]


I do.  Although there may be the occasional instance of a goalkeeper going up for a corner and making a positive difference, on the whole it tends to be little more than a pretty pathetic piece of pantomime.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 24, 2020, 07:08:51 PM
Does anybody recall a keeper other than Schmeichel ever scoring for us from a corner?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KevinGage on February 24, 2020, 07:14:15 PM
They don't have to score, if they create enough panic in the box, one of our other lot might cash in.

In theory anyway.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 24, 2020, 07:16:53 PM
Has that ever happened either?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on February 24, 2020, 07:22:36 PM
Considering the panic some of our keepers have caused in our box over the last few years the law of averages says they'll do it at the other end one day.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: exiled on the wirral! on February 24, 2020, 07:23:36 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on February 24, 2020, 07:22:36 PM
Considering the panic some of our keepers have caused in our box over the last few years the law of averages says they'll do it at the other end one day.
Very Good😂😂
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: andyh on February 24, 2020, 07:36:30 PM
https://twitter.com/outlawevans/status/1232022298011537408?s=21

Horrific
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 24, 2020, 07:40:47 PM
We haven't played our best two centre halves together since before Christmas. Not that we were solid as a rock before then anyway mind.

Konsa is out of form, very young and learning. Hause gives the ball away and shouldn't play for a month after letting the ball bounce in his own bloody box on Saturday.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 24, 2020, 07:42:41 PM
Quote from: Ads on February 24, 2020, 07:40:47 PM
We haven't played our best two centre halves together since before Christmas. Not that we were solid as a rock before then anyway mind.

Konsa is out of form, very young and learning. Hause gives the ball away and shouldn't play for a month after letting the ball bounce in his own bloody box on Saturday.

Smith, for whatever reason, didn't even have Engels in the squad, and that was his choice.  Those defensive stats alone should see him get the chop, absolutely outrageously bad.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on February 24, 2020, 07:45:39 PM
The annoying/frustrating/puzzling thing about those stays are that we have done fuck all to address them.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Flamingo Lane on February 24, 2020, 07:51:14 PM
Quote from: KevinGage on February 24, 2020, 07:14:15 PM
They don't have to score, if they create enough panic in the box, one of our other lot might cash in.

In theory anyway.

More of a case of 'ooh, look at me everyone, I'm a goalie up for a corner.'  Yes, you are, and you're a pratt.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Luke8 on February 24, 2020, 08:03:25 PM
I like Smith but the fact that we have got to the end of February and I’m
not convinced that he knows, or certainly at least hasn’t consistently played, his best team is far from ideal. Not all his fault obviously but not especially convincing/helpful.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: N'ZMAV on February 24, 2020, 08:15:58 PM
Quote from: Luke8 on February 24, 2020, 08:03:25 PM
I like Smith but the fact that we have got to the end of February and I’m
not convinced that he knows, or certainly at least hasn’t consistently played, his best team is far from ideal. Not all his fault obviously but not especially convincing/helpful.
this
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 24, 2020, 10:36:30 PM
Quote from: andyh on February 24, 2020, 07:36:30 PM
https://twitter.com/outlawevans/status/1232022298011537408?s=21

Horrific
Indefensible
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Fred Crump on February 24, 2020, 10:41:57 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 24, 2020, 10:36:30 PM
Quote from: andyh on February 24, 2020, 07:36:30 PM
https://twitter.com/outlawevans/status/1232022298011537408?s=21

Horrific
Indefensible

Literally so ! Lol.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan82 on February 24, 2020, 11:21:04 PM
Heaton and Mings are internationals. Nyland and Pepe have been good between the sticks. Engels and Konsa have potential as do the full backs. We have to be doing better than those pathetic stats.

For me it is the set-up. All we needed this year is to average a point a game. I feel we have been too open in too many games.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on February 24, 2020, 11:28:51 PM
Smith needs to get ruthless. He's not only fighting for our future, he's fighting for his own. He's had more support than any Villa manager, past or present, now is the time to show his steel. There's really nothing else to say. Whatever happens, he can't say he never had the longest ever Villa honeymoon in recent history.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on February 25, 2020, 12:19:00 AM
Since Paul Lambert?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on February 25, 2020, 12:54:41 AM
Lambert one was purely for not being Alex McLeish and in any case it all but disappeared after xmas 2012 especially with Bradford tagged on to that horrific run.

Think Dean will still be here in August whichever division we're in. Goes without saying he needs a good transfer window and start to the season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: GarTomas on February 25, 2020, 06:08:18 AM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 24, 2020, 10:20:56 AM
Quote from: Risso on February 24, 2020, 09:57:29 AM
The three at the back has worked in certain games, just as 4 at the back has in certain games.  What Smith needs to learn is when to play each formation.  The one size fits all approach is a load of bollocks, and shows just how limited he is.

Seems to have worked for less games than it hasnt and when we played four at the back though mart.

I agree though with your point for when he needs to learn when ro play each formation.

I put that siants perfoemance up with thag shit Watford away one and the home game against saints.

Watford away and Southampton at home we played a back 4. The switch came New Years Day away to Burnley.

Since the change we beat Burnley away and Leicester over 2 legs and Watford at home and drew at Brighton.

Feb has been a bad month points wise.  Getting no points on the board home and away against Bournemouth and Southampton has been a real kicker and we’d be much better off even with just 2 draws (and then 2 points worse off)

We’re still conceding with 5 at the back but we’re also scoring more which seemed to be one of the main criticisms before the change. See Southampton at home and Watford away.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on February 25, 2020, 06:54:02 AM
Quote from: Risso on February 24, 2020, 10:23:24 AM
It might take years and years to get over Smith at this rate.

Blimey, that's a tad over the top to be honest.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Luke8 on February 25, 2020, 08:36:40 AM
Quote from: GarTomas on February 25, 2020, 06:08:18 AM

We’re still conceding with 5 at the back but we’re also scoring more which seemed to be one of the main criticisms before the change. See Southampton at home and Watford away.


I appreciate this is a relatively simple way of looking at it, but I’m not sure we are scoring that many more - 1.33 goals a game compared to 1.25 when playing 4-3-3 - and that is also then pretty much negated anyway by the fact we have conceded 2 goals a games compared to 1.8.

I was one of the people advocating a switch to three at the back and it has yielded some positive results but, like with the 4-3-3, we haven’t quite managed to get it right often enough for a variety of reasons.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on February 25, 2020, 08:44:21 AM
Quote from: GarTomas on February 25, 2020, 06:08:18 AM


... We’re still conceding with 5 at the back but we’re also scoring more which seemed to be one of the main criticisms before the change. See Southampton at home and Watford away.
And here is the myth, probably based on the bias against Wesley: scoring had not been the problem.
It's always been about the goals-conceded, and this was being discussed here when footy led the campaign against Wesley pre-Xmas.
Andy's screenshot says everything we need to know about this season. And if you look at last season's table you'll see that our goals-against tally was poor compared to other top-10 teams (other than the Bitters).
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on February 25, 2020, 08:54:32 AM
Quote from: Villan82 on February 24, 2020, 11:21:04 PM
Heaton and Mings are internationals. Nyland and Pepe have been good between the sticks. Engels and Konsa have potential as do the full backs. We have to be doing better than those pathetic stats.

For me it is the set-up. All we needed this year is to average a point a game. I feel we have been too open in too many games.

It's the midfield also. Which might as well not exist.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 25, 2020, 08:56:10 AM
I think we should be moving back to 433 but with two of the 3 sitting in front of the defence. You'll still have 4 attacking players available and cover for the full backs.

The issue is for me not just individual errors at the back, but the ease with which pressure is placed on the defence with such a porous midfield.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on February 25, 2020, 09:00:46 AM
Quote from: Ads on February 25, 2020, 08:56:10 AM
I think we should be moving back to 433 but with two of the 3 sitting in front of the defence. You'll still have 4 attacking players available and cover for the full backs.

The issue is for me not just individual errors at the back, but the ease with which pressure is placed on the defence with such a porous midfield.

4-2-1-3? It's the right thing in theory but the problem is that Luiz and Nakamba just aren't very dependable in that role and they are as liable to pass the ball to the opposition as they are to a Villa player. The further back you drop them, the more calamitous the results. Drinkwater isn't much better in that position either.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 25, 2020, 09:28:03 AM
Quote from: Ads on February 25, 2020, 08:56:10 AM
I think we should be moving back to 433 but with two of the 3 sitting in front of the defence. You'll still have 4 attacking players available and cover for the full backs.

The issue is for me not just individual errors at the back, but the ease with which pressure is placed on the defence with such a porous midfield.
I guess the question is who are the 2 to hold?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Demitri_C on February 25, 2020, 09:47:42 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 25, 2020, 09:28:03 AM
Quote from: Ads on February 25, 2020, 08:56:10 AM
I think we should be moving back to 433 but with two of the 3 sitting in front of the defence. You'll still have 4 attacking players available and cover for the full backs.

The issue is for me not just individual errors at the back, but the ease with which pressure is placed on the defence with such a porous midfield.
I guess the question is who are the 2 to hold?

I dint think nakamba and luiz works. For me it would be nakamba and conor. Luiz needs to be dropped for his recent poor displays.

When mcginns back him conor and nakamba. Luiz as cover
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on February 25, 2020, 10:14:20 AM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 25, 2020, 09:47:42 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 25, 2020, 09:28:03 AM
Quote from: Ads on February 25, 2020, 08:56:10 AM
I think we should be moving back to 433 but with two of the 3 sitting in front of the defence. You'll still have 4 attacking players available and cover for the full backs.

The issue is for me not just individual errors at the back, but the ease with which pressure is placed on the defence with such a porous midfield.
I guess the question is who are the 2 to hold?

I dint think nakamba and luiz works. For me it would be nakamba and conor. Luiz needs to be dropped for his recent poor displays.

When mcginns back him conor and nakamba. Luiz as cover
Hourihane has zero impact when we do not have the ball - he is not the answer to the holding / defensive midfield.
If he plays, he has to be further up the field, safe in the knowledge that we have holding MF sorted.
Which we don't; so, should he play?!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on February 25, 2020, 10:25:30 AM
If we had some pace up front Hourihane and Luiz both have a pass on them to expose the defence.

Our problem has been that we've no outlet and nobody to chase those opportunities.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on February 25, 2020, 11:21:25 AM
Our problem is not scoring goals, it's conceding them.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brend'Watkins on February 25, 2020, 02:11:46 PM
Quote from: Clampy on February 25, 2020, 06:54:02 AM
Quote from: Risso on February 24, 2020, 10:23:24 AM
It might take years and years to get over Smith at this rate.

Blimey, that's a tad over the top to be honest.

And, having just about got over Bruce and not quite having got over Lambert.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Demitri_C on February 25, 2020, 02:31:22 PM
Quote from: Mister E on February 25, 2020, 10:14:20 AM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 25, 2020, 09:47:42 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 25, 2020, 09:28:03 AM
Quote from: Ads on February 25, 2020, 08:56:10 AM
I think we should be moving back to 433 but with two of the 3 sitting in front of the defence. You'll still have 4 attacking players available and cover for the full backs.

The issue is for me not just individual errors at the back, but the ease with which pressure is placed on the defence with such a porous midfield.
I guess the question is who are the 2 to hold?

I dint think nakamba and luiz works. For me it would be nakamba and conor. Luiz needs to be dropped for his recent poor displays.

When mcginns back him conor and nakamba. Luiz as cover
Hourihane has zero impact when we do not have the ball - he is not the answer to the holding / defensive midfield.
If he plays, he has to be further up the field, safe in the knowledge that we have holding MF sorted.
Which we don't; so, should he play?!

But what he does offer is a tgreat at set pieces and has a tasty shot on him.

What does luiz do? Lose the ball and make mistakes. His age and inexperience is showing. I like him though as i think he has massive potential.

I think conor is better up top as you say but he can do a job in cm. He certainly doesnt make that many bad passes or msitakes like luiz has been
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 25, 2020, 02:35:52 PM
Quote from: Clampy on February 25, 2020, 06:54:02 AM
Quote from: Risso on February 24, 2020, 10:23:24 AM
It might take years and years to get over Smith at this rate.

Blimey, that's a tad over the top to be honest.

I think if he relegates us, you'll see it'll have quite a deleterious effect.  You once thought I was mental saying that we'd be close to administration if our owner couldn't support us any more, and yet under Xia we came very close to doing just that.  That wouldn't be the case under the new owners, but we would have to lose Jack, and almost certainly Mings, Heaton and McGinn as well, and then rebuild from scratch.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on February 25, 2020, 02:41:52 PM
"years and years"
How many would that be exactly only I need to build that into my planning?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sid1964 on February 25, 2020, 02:46:12 PM
I would have thought if we get relegated, then there would be quite a few who would not want to stick around to have the weekly battle in the Championship.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT Villan on February 25, 2020, 02:48:36 PM
Luiz needs to be played further forward or not at all, he is not a DM. I wish we had got Delph instead of him !
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on February 25, 2020, 02:59:52 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 25, 2020, 02:35:52 PM
Quote from: Clampy on February 25, 2020, 06:54:02 AM
Quote from: Risso on February 24, 2020, 10:23:24 AM
It might take years and years to get over Smith at this rate.

Blimey, that's a tad over the top to be honest.

I think if he relegates us, you'll see it'll have quite a deleterious effect.  You once thought I was mental saying that we'd be close to administration if our owner couldn't support us any more, and yet under Xia we came very close to doing just that.  That wouldn't be the case under the new owners, but we would have to lose Jack, and almost certainly Mings, Heaton and McGinn as well, and then rebuild from scratch.

Except we'd have a squad of players who are on long contracts and still improving. With a handful of new signings I think we'd be fine.

I think the clamour for Jack would be too much and I don't think we should stand in his way. I'm not so sure about the rest.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 25, 2020, 03:02:10 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 25, 2020, 02:59:52 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 25, 2020, 02:35:52 PM
Quote from: Clampy on February 25, 2020, 06:54:02 AM
Quote from: Risso on February 24, 2020, 10:23:24 AM
It might take years and years to get over Smith at this rate.

Blimey, that's a tad over the top to be honest.

I think if he relegates us, you'll see it'll have quite a deleterious effect.  You once thought I was mental saying that we'd be close to administration if our owner couldn't support us any more, and yet under Xia we came very close to doing just that.  That wouldn't be the case under the new owners, but we would have to lose Jack, and almost certainly Mings, Heaton and McGinn as well, and then rebuild from scratch.

Except we'd have a squad of players who are on long contracts and still improving. With a handful of new signings I think we'd be fine.

I think the clamour for Jack would be too much and I don't think we should stand in his way. I'm not so sure about the rest.

Mings who's just broken into the Englamd team, think he'd stick around for the Championship?  Likewise McGinn, no way he's going to turn down a move to a bigger club.  In any case, we'd have to sell even if we didn't want to, being back in the Championship would crucify us for FFP otherwise.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on February 25, 2020, 03:05:36 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 25, 2020, 03:02:10 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 25, 2020, 02:59:52 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 25, 2020, 02:35:52 PM
Quote from: Clampy on February 25, 2020, 06:54:02 AM
Quote from: Risso on February 24, 2020, 10:23:24 AM
It might take years and years to get over Smith at this rate.

Blimey, that's a tad over the top to be honest.

I think if he relegates us, you'll see it'll have quite a deleterious effect.  You once thought I was mental saying that we'd be close to administration if our owner couldn't support us any more, and yet under Xia we came very close to doing just that.  That wouldn't be the case under the new owners, but we would have to lose Jack, and almost certainly Mings, Heaton and McGinn as well, and then rebuild from scratch.

Except we'd have a squad of players who are on long contracts and still improving. With a handful of new signings I think we'd be fine.

I think the clamour for Jack would be too much and I don't think we should stand in his way. I'm not so sure about the rest.

Mings who's just broken into the Englamd team, think he'd stick around for the Championship?  Likewise McGinn, no way he's going to turn down a move to a bigger club.  In any case, we'd have to sell even if we didn't want to, being back in the Championship would crucify us for FFP otherwise.

If we sold Grealish, allied with the parachute payments, we'd be fine for a season I'd have thought.

With the others having a decent amount of time left on their contracts, we'd get a good fee if they were to go, which could be reinvested. We could loan them to a club in the Premier League for a decent fee.....
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on February 25, 2020, 03:07:30 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 25, 2020, 03:05:36 PM
We could loan them to a club in the Premier League for a decent fee.....

That's actually a very good idea.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 25, 2020, 03:18:07 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 25, 2020, 03:05:36 PM

With the others having a decent amount of time left on their contracts, we'd get a good fee if they were to go, which could be reinvested. We could loan them to a club in the Premier League for a decent fee.....

We'd make a loss on them all except the aforementioned players and Luiz, should Man City decide to buy him back, which I doubt.  And then we'd have to trust Pitarch and Smith not to completely arse the recruitment process up again.  It would be a shitfest.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on February 25, 2020, 03:37:47 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 25, 2020, 03:18:07 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 25, 2020, 03:05:36 PM

With the others having a decent amount of time left on their contracts, we'd get a good fee if they were to go, which could be reinvested. We could loan them to a club in the Premier League for a decent fee.....

We'd make a loss on them all except the aforementioned players and Luiz, should Man City decide to buy him back, which I doubt.  And then we'd have to trust Pitarch and Smith not to completely arse the recruitment process up again.  It would be a shitfest.

By the others I meant Mings and McGinn. Nobody else would be released.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on February 25, 2020, 03:45:10 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 25, 2020, 03:18:07 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 25, 2020, 03:05:36 PM

With the others having a decent amount of time left on their contracts, we'd get a good fee if they were to go, which could be reinvested. We could loan them to a club in the Premier League for a decent fee.....

We'd make a loss on them all except the aforementioned players and Luiz, should Man City decide to buy him back, which I doubt.  And then we'd have to trust Pitarch and Smith not to completely arse the recruitment process up again.  It would be a shitfest.

Who do you think we'd have to sell that we'd make a loss on?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 25, 2020, 06:12:48 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on February 25, 2020, 03:07:30 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 25, 2020, 03:05:36 PM
We could loan them to a club in the Premier League for a decent fee.....

That's actually a very good idea.
And about as likely as AEG going 12 rounds with Tyson Fury.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: algy on February 25, 2020, 08:50:14 PM
Think criticism of the summer transfers is a bit harsh. We effectively needed to bring in 10-15 new players regardless, and did it to a budget of about £120m (roughly £10m/player). It really does limit us to either up-and-coming players like Konsa or cheap punts (in PL terms) like Trez. Not saying we've got a team of world beaters on our hands, and some maybe haven't worked out as well as we'd hoped, but I'm struggling to see what else we could've realistically done. Buy fewer, but higher quality players and have a paper thin squad? Spend £250m or something over the summer & make FFP totally impossible?

We're doing roughly what I expected, which is being involved in a scrap around 17th place. Sticking with what I said at the start of the season - I'd stick with Dean if we finish 18th or higher. 19th, keep him if we were only a point or two off 17th. 20th, unacceptable. If we do go down, though, we're going to have to look nailed on for automatic promotion pretty quickly.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on February 25, 2020, 10:30:05 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 25, 2020, 06:12:48 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on February 25, 2020, 03:07:30 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 25, 2020, 03:05:36 PM
We could loan them to a club in the Premier League for a decent fee.....

That's actually a very good idea.
And about as likely as AEG going 12 rounds with Tyson Fury.

Why?

I'd think the character they've shown would suggest they like being part of our club and can see the potential. With a settled side, and them coming back in, with a couple more additions and we'd be far better prepared.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 25, 2020, 11:10:04 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 25, 2020, 10:30:05 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 25, 2020, 06:12:48 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on February 25, 2020, 03:07:30 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 25, 2020, 03:05:36 PM
We could loan them to a club in the Premier League for a decent fee.....

That's actually a very good idea.
And about as likely as AEG going 12 rounds with Tyson Fury.

Why?

I'd think the character they've shown would suggest they like being part of our club and can see the potential. With a settled side, and them coming back in, with a couple more additions and we'd be far better prepared.
Yes it happens all the time.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on February 25, 2020, 11:12:51 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 25, 2020, 11:10:04 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 25, 2020, 10:30:05 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 25, 2020, 06:12:48 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on February 25, 2020, 03:07:30 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 25, 2020, 03:05:36 PM
We could loan them to a club in the Premier League for a decent fee.....

That's actually a very good idea.
And about as likely as AEG going 12 rounds with Tyson Fury.

Why?

I'd think the character they've shown would suggest they like being part of our club and can see the potential. With a settled side, and them coming back in, with a couple more additions and we'd be far better prepared.
Yes it happens all the time.

Here we go.

Why isn't it a good idea?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 25, 2020, 11:15:37 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 25, 2020, 11:12:51 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 25, 2020, 11:10:04 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 25, 2020, 10:30:05 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 25, 2020, 06:12:48 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on February 25, 2020, 03:07:30 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 25, 2020, 03:05:36 PM
We could loan them to a club in the Premier League for a decent fee.....

That's actually a very good idea.
And about as likely as AEG going 12 rounds with Tyson Fury.

Why?

I'd think the character they've shown would suggest they like being part of our club and can see the potential. With a settled side, and them coming back in, with a couple more additions and we'd be far better prepared.
Yes it happens all the time.

Here we go.

Why isn't it a good idea?
Because it has no basis in reality.
Why would a player or a club agree to it ?
These are not players surplus to requirements, they are top level Premier League First Team players, show me an example of where this has happened.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on February 26, 2020, 07:38:40 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 25, 2020, 11:15:37 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 25, 2020, 11:12:51 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 25, 2020, 11:10:04 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 25, 2020, 10:30:05 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 25, 2020, 06:12:48 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on February 25, 2020, 03:07:30 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 25, 2020, 03:05:36 PM
We could loan them to a club in the Premier League for a decent fee.....

That's actually a very good idea.
And about as likely as AEG going 12 rounds with Tyson Fury.

Why?

I'd think the character they've shown would suggest they like being part of our club and can see the potential. With a settled side, and them coming back in, with a couple more additions and we'd be far better prepared.
Yes it happens all the time.

Here we go.

Why isn't it a good idea?
Because it has no basis in reality.
Why would a player or a club agree to it ?
These are not players surplus to requirements, they are top level Premier League First Team players, show me an example of where this has happened.

Yeah, because there's never a first time for anything.

Why wouldn't they agree to it? We allow them the opportunity to play in the top division as a recognition of their contribution and level with an agreement to release (transfer) if we don't go up.

We don't want to let them go, but realise they have loftier ambitions. The receiving club gets a good player on a loan, that is the equivalent of getting a Premier League loan without eating into the max 2 loans form another Premier League club.

Everyone wins.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 26, 2020, 07:52:37 AM
You should call the club and let them know.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 26, 2020, 09:25:16 AM
I’ve read everything now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on February 26, 2020, 10:06:44 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 26, 2020, 07:52:37 AM
You should call the club and let them know.

Thanks, helpful as ever.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on February 26, 2020, 10:07:44 AM
Quote from: Risso on February 26, 2020, 09:25:16 AM
I’ve read everything now.

Well done. Gold star in assembly for you.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 26, 2020, 10:31:41 AM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on February 25, 2020, 03:45:10 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 25, 2020, 03:18:07 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 25, 2020, 03:05:36 PM

With the others having a decent amount of time left on their contracts, we'd get a good fee if they were to go, which could be reinvested. We could loan them to a club in the Premier League for a decent fee.....

We'd make a loss on them all except the aforementioned players and Luiz, should Man City decide to buy him back, which I doubt.  And then we'd have to trust Pitarch and Smith not to completely arse the recruitment process up again.  It would be a shitfest.

Who do you think we'd have to sell that we'd make a loss on?

The players we'd "have to sell" we'd make a profit on (Jack, McGinn etc).  Other players like Wesley, Nakamba, Trezeguet, we wouldn't have to sell them, and if we did, we'd be making a loss I reckon.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 26, 2020, 10:44:33 AM
Quote from: Drummond on February 26, 2020, 10:06:44 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 26, 2020, 07:52:37 AM
You should call the club and let them know.

Thanks, helpful as ever.
Thanks but no gold star?
Disappointed.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clark W Griswold on February 26, 2020, 10:50:16 AM
If we had this squad going into a championship season, we'd be right up there i reckon, as long as the recruitment was at least fairly successful...

Heaton, Steer, Sarkic
Guilbert, Elhammody, Hause, Konsa, Engels, (New Player), Targett, Taylor
Nakamba, Hourahane, (3 new players)
Jota, Trezeguet, El Ghazi, (New player), Wesley, Davis, Samatta, Baston.

The new players being a centre back, ball winning midfielder, box to box midfielder, creative midfielder and another winger.

Use the money from selling Grealish, McGinn and Mings who i think would want to go. I also think Luiz wouldn't hang around so he'd probably be sold, Reina wouldn't stay on and we would offload Drinkwater and sell Lansbury and Hogan as well.

But let's hope it doesn't come to that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on February 26, 2020, 11:33:24 AM
Quote from: Risso on February 26, 2020, 10:31:41 AM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on February 25, 2020, 03:45:10 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 25, 2020, 03:18:07 PM

We'd make a loss on them all except the aforementioned players and Luiz, should Man City decide to buy him back, which I doubt.  And then we'd have to trust Pitarch and Smith not to completely arse the recruitment process up again.  It would be a shitfest.

Who do you think we'd have to sell that we'd make a loss on?

The players we'd "have to sell" we'd make a profit on (Jack, McGinn etc).  Other players like Wesley, Nakamba, Trezeguet, we wouldn't have to sell them, and if we did, we'd be making a loss I reckon.

Wesley and Nakamba are the only ones we'd possibly make much of a loss on I reckon, in part down to the insanity of fees these days. I just don't think we'd "make a loss on them all", certainly not a loss of note in footballing terms.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on February 26, 2020, 12:12:04 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 26, 2020, 10:44:33 AM
Quote from: Drummond on February 26, 2020, 10:06:44 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 26, 2020, 07:52:37 AM
You should call the club and let them know.

Thanks, helpful as ever.
Thanks but no gold star?
Disappointed.

Edited for the sake of realising its pointless.

Stay happy.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on February 26, 2020, 12:16:07 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 25, 2020, 02:35:52 PM
Quote from: Clampy on February 25, 2020, 06:54:02 AM
Quote from: Risso on February 24, 2020, 10:23:24 AM
It might take years and years to get over Smith at this rate.

Blimey, that's a tad over the top to be honest.

I think if he relegates us, you'll see it'll have quite a deleterious effect.  You once thought I was mental saying that we'd be close to administration if our owner couldn't support us any more, and yet under Xia we came very close to doing just that.  That wouldn't be the case under the new owners, but we would have to lose Jack, and almost certainly Mings, Heaton and McGinn as well, and then rebuild from scratch.

As we've seen before in the championship getting in a really good striker can easily hide weaknesses elsewhere.

I'd be happy getting someone like Dwight Gayle in given he's more than proven at that level and will probably be available. Indeed I expect it will be roughly the same strikerforce as now and the other three will be o.k I think aswell.

When we went down last time we picked up Chester who was a squad player at a premier league club so think Mings can be replaced.

The big problem will be replacing Jack. Don't just lose majority of quality in final third but pretty much all the personality aswell. And the worry is we're not even proven under DS as a winning team at championship level without Grealish around given our horrible run for three months last season when he was injured. We still had Tammy, McGinn and from late January Mings all as regulars so it's not like we were putting terrible teams out in that spell either.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Demitri_C on February 26, 2020, 12:20:07 PM
Quote from: Clark W Griswold on February 26, 2020, 10:50:16 AM
If we had this squad going into a championship season, we'd be right up there i reckon, as long as the recruitment was at least fairly successful...

Heaton, Steer, Sarkic
Guilbert, Elhammody, Hause, Konsa, Engels, (New Player), Targett, Taylor
Nakamba, Hourahane, (3 new players)
Jota, Trezeguet, El Ghazi, (New player), Wesley, Davis, Samatta, Baston.

The new players being a centre back, ball winning midfielder, box to box midfielder, creative midfielder and another winger.

Use the money from selling Grealish, McGinn and Mings who i think would want to go. I also think Luiz wouldn't hang around so he'd probably be sold, Reina wouldn't stay on and we would offload Drinkwater and sell Lansbury and Hogan as well.

But let's hope it doesn't come to that.

Looking at that squad its good on paper but one key ans massive ingredient missing that will never get us up - leaders.

Absolutely no leaders in that team. You need leaders like mings mcginn and grealish.

There is talent there but we would need aggresive leaders with experience signings with that lot
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on February 26, 2020, 12:20:30 PM
Jota would still be with us. He may not be Premier League but he'd do just fine in the Championship.

O'Hare would be back and ours. Young Barry would no doubt get games too.

I don't want us to go down but to suggest it's the end of the world is typical doom mongering.

We survived last time with vastly shitter owners. This time we'd be fine. The trick would be recruitment for the next season in the top flight with a largely settled squad.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Demitri_C on February 26, 2020, 12:26:04 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 26, 2020, 12:20:30 PM
Jota would still be with us. He may not be Premier League but he'd do just fine in the Championship.

O'Hare would be back and ours. Young Barry would no doubt get games too.

I don't want us to go down but to suggest it's the end of the world is typical doom mongering.

We survived last time with vastly shitter owners. This time we'd be fine. The trick would be recruitment for the next season in the top flight with a largely settled squad.

We wont be fine it will be another collosal mess. Your also missing the bigger picture we would have lost a potential brilliant spine of the team with the sales of mings mcginn and grealish.

The team that took us down was shit this one has potential. We would have to do the reset buttkn YET AGAIN!

It would be a potential disaster
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on February 26, 2020, 12:33:00 PM
I think it would be o.k.

You've still got guys like Hourihane and El Ghazi who played their part in promotion last time. Just use the loan market and get in a couple of experienced heads, there's no great secret.

Would expect a serious top 2 challenge.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on February 26, 2020, 12:37:21 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 26, 2020, 12:26:04 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 26, 2020, 12:20:30 PM
Jota would still be with us. He may not be Premier League but he'd do just fine in the Championship.

O'Hare would be back and ours. Young Barry would no doubt get games too.

I don't want us to go down but to suggest it's the end of the world is typical doom mongering.

We survived last time with vastly shitter owners. This time we'd be fine. The trick would be recruitment for the next season in the top flight with a largely settled squad.

We wont be fine it will be another collosal mess. Your also missing the bigger picture we would have lost a potential brilliant spine of the team with the sales of mings mcginn and grealish.

The team that took us down was shit this one has potential. We would have to do the reset buttkn YET AGAIN!

It would be a potential disaster

Well that makes no sense. If we'd be in a better position than when we went down before, surely it means we'd be in a better position?

I'm not missing anything thanks. I'm well aware of who we may lose. But I'm also sure that the remaining players would all do perfectly well in the Championship. And they'd have played together, too.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 26, 2020, 12:42:17 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 26, 2020, 12:20:30 PM
Jota would still be with us. He may not be Premier League but he'd do just fine in the Championship.

O'Hare would be back and ours. Young Barry would no doubt get games too.

I don't want us to go down but to suggest it's the end of the world is typical doom mongering.

We survived last time with vastly shitter owners. This time we'd be fine. The trick would be recruitment for the next season in the top flight with a largely settled squad.

Jota couldn’t get into a shit Blues team. Buying him was entirely pointless.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on February 26, 2020, 12:52:24 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 26, 2020, 12:42:17 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 26, 2020, 12:20:30 PM
Jota would still be with us. He may not be Premier League but he'd do just fine in the Championship.

O'Hare would be back and ours. Young Barry would no doubt get games too.

I don't want us to go down but to suggest it's the end of the world is typical doom mongering.

We survived last time with vastly shitter owners. This time we'd be fine. The trick would be recruitment for the next season in the top flight with a largely settled squad.

Jota couldn’t get into a shit Blues team. Buying him was entirely pointless.
Certainly agree with that!!
He and Trez were definitely low-cost punts that have not paid off. Trez might make it in the 2nd tier but Jota is a chocolate teapot.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Demitri_C on February 26, 2020, 12:54:57 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 26, 2020, 12:37:21 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 26, 2020, 12:26:04 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 26, 2020, 12:20:30 PM
Jota would still be with us. He may not be Premier League but he'd do just fine in the Championship.

O'Hare would be back and ours. Young Barry would no doubt get games too.

I don't want us to go down but to suggest it's the end of the world is typical doom mongering.

We survived last time with vastly shitter owners. This time we'd be fine. The trick would be recruitment for the next season in the top flight with a largely settled squad.

We wont be fine it will be another collosal mess. Your also missing the bigger picture we would have lost a potential brilliant spine of the team with the sales of mings mcginn and grealish.

The team that took us down was shit this one has potential. We would have to do the reset buttkn YET AGAIN!

It would be a potential disaster

Well that makes no sense. If we'd be in a better position than when we went down before, surely it means we'd be in a better position?

I'm not missing anything thanks. I'm well aware of who we may lose. But I'm also sure that the remaining players would all do perfectly well in the Championship. And they'd have played together, too.

It makes a lot of sense thanks. Just because we may not be aa bad as the last time we went down doesnt mean this time will be any easier.

You seriously dont know if you think we will be ok without mcginn  grealish and mings. Oh lets not forget we have no tammy either. None of our exiating strikers are any where near the level of tammy.

Your making out as if replacing grealish mcginn and mings will be easy?

Its going to be as tough as it was when the first year we went down.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on February 26, 2020, 01:07:23 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 26, 2020, 12:42:17 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 26, 2020, 12:20:30 PM
Jota would still be with us. He may not be Premier League but he'd do just fine in the Championship.

O'Hare would be back and ours. Young Barry would no doubt get games too.

I don't want us to go down but to suggest it's the end of the world is typical doom mongering.

We survived last time with vastly shitter owners. This time we'd be fine. The trick would be recruitment for the next season in the top flight with a largely settled squad.

Jota couldn’t get into a shit Blues team. Buying him was entirely pointless.

O'Hare? Barry? Or is everyone that we have on the books (excluding Grealish, Mings and McGinn) shit?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on February 26, 2020, 01:07:58 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 26, 2020, 12:20:30 PM
Jota would still be with us. He may not be Premier League but he'd do just fine in the Championship.

O'Hare would be back and ours. Young Barry would no doubt get games too.

I don't want us to go down but to suggest it's the end of the world is typical doom mongering.

We survived last time with vastly shitter owners. This time we'd be fine. The trick would be recruitment for the next season in the top flight with a largely settled squad.

The club was on the verge of being wound up the last time we were down there. If it happens this time, all decent players will leave and we will be very much under the cosh FFP wise. The revisionism towards our time in the second tier is astounding. It was a complete and utter shit show.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on February 26, 2020, 01:13:18 PM
Quote from: brontebilly on February 26, 2020, 01:07:58 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 26, 2020, 12:20:30 PM
Jota would still be with us. He may not be Premier League but he'd do just fine in the Championship.

O'Hare would be back and ours. Young Barry would no doubt get games too.

I don't want us to go down but to suggest it's the end of the world is typical doom mongering.

We survived last time with vastly shitter owners. This time we'd be fine. The trick would be recruitment for the next season in the top flight with a largely settled squad.

The club was on the verge of being wound up the last time we were down there. If it happens this time, all decent players will leave and we will be very much under the cosh FFP wise. The revisionism towards our time in the second tier is astounding. It was a complete and utter shit show.

If the decent players leave we'll have a lot of cash in the bank. Unless you think that our better players will suddenly be worthless?

What revisionism?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Demitri_C on February 26, 2020, 01:13:57 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 26, 2020, 01:07:23 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 26, 2020, 12:42:17 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 26, 2020, 12:20:30 PM
Jota would still be with us. He may not be Premier League but he'd do just fine in the Championship.

O'Hare would be back and ours. Young Barry would no doubt get games too.

I don't want us to go down but to suggest it's the end of the world is typical doom mongering.

We survived last time with vastly shitter owners. This time we'd be fine. The trick would be recruitment for the next season in the top flight with a largely settled squad.

Jota couldn’t get into a shit Blues team. Buying him was entirely pointless.

O'Hare? Barry? Or is everyone that we have on the books (excluding Grealish, Mings and McGinn) shit?

We going to seriously throw in a 16 year old and put all the pressure on the lad? As for o hare  he might do ok at championship level but if we are seriously relying in those two to get us promoted we are in trouble.

I think we will invest the sale of players but we will be mindful of FFP so i dont expect us spending on the scale we did when we first got relegated.

Its going to be a huge job and thats if they decide to stick with smith. Of we continue to get woeful performances like watford and Southampton away then he should be sacked of we go down in that fashion with no fight or passion.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on February 26, 2020, 01:14:53 PM
Quote from: Clark W Griswold on February 26, 2020, 10:50:16 AM
If we had this squad going into a championship season, we'd be right up there i reckon, as long as the recruitment was at least fairly successful...

Heaton, Steer, Sarkic
Guilbert, Elhammody, Hause, Konsa, Engels, (New Player), Targett, Taylor
Nakamba, Hourahane, (3 new players)
Jota, Trezeguet, El Ghazi, (New player), Wesley, Davis, Samatta, Baston.

The new players being a centre back, ball winning midfielder, box to box midfielder, creative midfielder and another winger.

Use the money from selling Grealish, McGinn and Mings who i think would want to go. I also think Luiz wouldn't hang around so he'd probably be sold, Reina wouldn't stay on and we would offload Drinkwater and sell Lansbury and Hogan as well.

But let's hope it doesn't come to that.
To be honest I think that squad would be bottom half Championship unless the recruitment was excellent. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Hookeysmith on February 26, 2020, 01:20:29 PM
I know we can all be miserable at times but fuck me reading this and I feel like opening a vein.

We are not marooned at the foot of the table needing a miracle - yet
We have several teams around us who are equally as shit as we are

Whether we get tonked or not we are in a domestic cup final on Sunday - how many teams would swap places with us to have that day out and chance (albeit small one) of winning a trophy

Let not collectively condemn us just yet - even if some of the performances leave a lot to be desired
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on February 26, 2020, 01:22:59 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 26, 2020, 12:42:17 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 26, 2020, 12:20:30 PM
Jota would still be with us. He may not be Premier League but he'd do just fine in the Championship.

O'Hare would be back and ours. Young Barry would no doubt get games too.

I don't want us to go down but to suggest it's the end of the world is typical doom mongering.

We survived last time with vastly shitter owners. This time we'd be fine. The trick would be recruitment for the next season in the top flight with a largely settled squad.

Jota couldn’t get into a shit Blues team. Buying him was entirely pointless.
"Buying him was entirely pointless"  - I think there are few others that fall into that category.
We were inadequately prepared for this season, primarily as the attitude prevailing at the club (emanating from the owners) was that we were ahead of schedule (i.e. we were not ready for promotion) -  adding to that were the wholesale changes made to the squad (which I appreciate were necessary), however the inexperience of some of the recruits and indeed the manager, has us potentially facing a return to the Championship.
Will it be the demise of the club? - hopefully not, as we appear to have owners with a long term vision and plans.
It will be gut wrenching for the fans after such a great finish to last season - for me one of the hardest things to swallow is that we have found it hard to compete against some of the clubs who you would normally not associate with the top division …… again its hard to take in unwitting, condescending comments from fans of other clubs i.e. " Villa are a big club, they shouldn't be going down and playing in the Championship"
If we do get relegated I think the biggest decision for the owners revolves, initially, around who should be managing us, reviewing the recruitment team and also the role of the CEO. I appreciate Smith got us back up last season, but he never quite  achieved that with his previous club.
History tells us that the team coming up to the Premier via the play off final  normally struggle to maintain the Premier league status, however I certainly expected more from the manager and squad bearing in mind the funds allowed to rebuild the squad - I guess that's the crux of the issue - the rebuilding
of a squad takes longer than a few months to start taking shape - but going back to my initial point, some of the recruits appear not to be of the quality required or are too inexperienced ….its going to be a hard couple of months
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 26, 2020, 01:24:22 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 26, 2020, 01:07:23 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 26, 2020, 12:42:17 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 26, 2020, 12:20:30 PM
Jota would still be with us. He may not be Premier League but he'd do just fine in the Championship.

O'Hare would be back and ours. Young Barry would no doubt get games too.

I don't want us to go down but to suggest it's the end of the world is typical doom mongering.

We survived last time with vastly shitter owners. This time we'd be fine. The trick would be recruitment for the next season in the top flight with a largely settled squad.

Jota couldn’t get into a shit Blues team. Buying him was entirely pointless.

O'Hare? Barry? Or is everyone that we have on the books (excluding Grealish, Mings and McGinn) shit?

No they're not all shit.  Hourihane would still do a job at that level, as would the likes of Targett and Gilbert.  Picking somebody like Jota who IS shit by virtue of being too physically incapable at either Premier League or Championship level isn't a great way of reinforcing your point though.  He's probably the worst player to make an appearance for us this year.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Luke8 on February 26, 2020, 01:39:12 PM
I’m not sure the level of the Championship is even that great to be honest. We made a pretty decent mess of getting out of it last time. West Brom are currently clear at top team with a team that includes Kyle Bartley, Jake Livermore and Robson Hal-Kanu.

Not something we will have to worry about when we stay up anyway!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clark W Griswold on February 26, 2020, 01:50:05 PM
Yeah Jota probably is the weakest we’ve used this season agree but it wasn’t a pointless signing as it was intended for the championship and was part of a player going in the opposite direction.

There would be a world of difference if we went down this time compared to last. Last time we had no real saleable assets, Jordan Ayew being about the best and probably rated around £10m at the time.
Now we would be looking at £125m plus for Grealish, McGinn and Mings plus probably a further £20m for Luiz, Lansbury and Hogan.
I take it you can in theory spend all of that if you wanted to and not worry about FFP..? That’s a hell of a lot for a promotion push on top of the squad we’d already have which would also be considerably better than what we were left with last time. Many of these lads are young promising players who will have had a year playing the PL with us already. So, if you want your leaders here’s £150m to get some.
I forgot about O Hare and Barry, two players that could have an impact by then, in Barry’s case even if off the bench. Unless we really fucked up the spending of that money I think we’d have a hell of a team for that level.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan82 on February 26, 2020, 01:53:37 PM
Quote from: brontebilly on February 26, 2020, 01:07:58 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 26, 2020, 12:20:30 PM
Jota would still be with us. He may not be Premier League but he'd do just fine in the Championship.

O'Hare would be back and ours. Young Barry would no doubt get games too.

I don't want us to go down but to suggest it's the end of the world is typical doom mongering.

We survived last time with vastly shitter owners. This time we'd be fine. The trick would be recruitment for the next season in the top flight with a largely settled squad.

The club was on the verge of being wound up the last time we were down there. If it happens this time, all decent players will leave and we will be very much under the cosh FFP wise. The revisionism towards our time in the second tier is astounding. It was a complete and utter shit show.

Here here. It was three years of hell. Urgh. Have people forgtotten what it was like to see your Preston and your Brentford and your Reading raise their game against us and take points off us regularly?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on February 26, 2020, 01:59:09 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 26, 2020, 01:24:22 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 26, 2020, 01:07:23 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 26, 2020, 12:42:17 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 26, 2020, 12:20:30 PM
Jota would still be with us. He may not be Premier League but he'd do just fine in the Championship.

O'Hare would be back and ours. Young Barry would no doubt get games too.

I don't want us to go down but to suggest it's the end of the world is typical doom mongering.

We survived last time with vastly shitter owners. This time we'd be fine. The trick would be recruitment for the next season in the top flight with a largely settled squad.

Jota couldn’t get into a shit Blues team. Buying him was entirely pointless.

O'Hare? Barry? Or is everyone that we have on the books (excluding Grealish, Mings and McGinn) shit?

No they're not all shit.  Hourihane would still do a job at that level, as would the likes of Targett and Gilbert.  Picking somebody like Jota who IS shit by virtue of being too physically incapable at either Premier League or Championship level isn't a great way of reinforcing your point though.  He's probably the worst player to make an appearance for us this year.

I picked Jota as he (along with O'Hare and Barry) is the closest we have to Grealish.

Jota did well at Brentford in the Championship, I'd argue that he could still be useful. If you go through our squad, I'd say they are good enough to get us promoted.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on February 26, 2020, 02:02:57 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 26, 2020, 01:59:09 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 26, 2020, 01:24:22 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 26, 2020, 01:07:23 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 26, 2020, 12:42:17 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 26, 2020, 12:20:30 PM
Jota would still be with us. He may not be Premier League but he'd do just fine in the Championship.

O'Hare would be back and ours. Young Barry would no doubt get games too.

I don't want us to go down but to suggest it's the end of the world is typical doom mongering.

We survived last time with vastly shitter owners. This time we'd be fine. The trick would be recruitment for the next season in the top flight with a largely settled squad.

Jota couldn’t get into a shit Blues team. Buying him was entirely pointless.

O'Hare? Barry? Or is everyone that we have on the books (excluding Grealish, Mings and McGinn) shit?

No they're not all shit.  Hourihane would still do a job at that level, as would the likes of Targett and Gilbert.  Picking somebody like Jota who IS shit by virtue of being too physically incapable at either Premier League or Championship level isn't a great way of reinforcing your point though.  He's probably the worst player to make an appearance for us this year.

I picked Jota as he (along with O'Hare and Barry) is the closest we have to Grealish.

Jota did well at Brentford in the Championship, I'd argue that he could still be useful. If you go through our squad, I'd say they are good enough to get us promoted.


I disagree.  Even with Tammy the majority of that squad was mid table at best without Grealish.  I can't see that team being anywhere near the likes of last seasons Norwich & Sheffilield or this seasons Leeds or West Brom.  If the recruitment was brilliant then maybe, but otherwise I'd seriously fear for that team.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on February 26, 2020, 02:14:27 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on February 26, 2020, 02:02:57 PM

I disagree.  Even with Tammy the majority of that squad was mid table at best without Grealish.  I can't see that team being anywhere near the likes of last seasons Norwich & Sheffilield or this seasons Leeds or West Brom.  If the recruitment was brilliant then maybe, but otherwise I'd seriously fear for that team.

Luiz, Nakamba, Guilbert, Targett, Samatta, Engels and Konsa are good players if not world-beaters. They'd do fine at that level. We'd need to strengthen, I'm under no illusions, but a couple of decent loans too and I think we'd be fine.

This season has seen some mistakes but it's not like we've been outclassed week after week as happened before we went down last time. We're challenging and in most games we play.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on February 26, 2020, 02:52:35 PM
The fatalism on here has reached new heights I see, we now have a squad that isn't even top half of the championship with Jack, Mings and McGinn. A couple more defeats and we'll be getting kicked straight into league 1 for being so shit.

On topic, we'd need to replace Mings well and get a proper defensive midfielder but other than that I'd be ok with us going with players already at the club, Samatta and Wesley would be very good at that level, AEG has proven he's good there and I think Trez would do well. Then we've o'hare, vassilev, archer, ramsey and barry who would all get chance to play senior football and have shown glimpses of being very talented. We might lose Heaton and Reina but Steer, Nyland and Sarkic are all capable of being first choice in the championship.

I think we'd be near the top all season and we'd have a lots of youngsters with a lot more experience by the time we came back. What we did wrong when were relegated last time was selling Benteke and Delph and trying to buy a new squad. What we did wrong the first season after relegation last time was try to buy a new squad. What we did wrong when we sacked RDM was take on a manager who approaches every window like a kid in a sweet shop. What we did wrong (with no alternative) this season was buy a new squad. Continuity matters and we've had none for 4 years, we need to fill gaps and adapt rather than tear down and replace, regardless of which league we're in next season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on February 26, 2020, 02:54:48 PM
Crikey paul, we agree.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on February 26, 2020, 02:58:09 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 26, 2020, 02:54:48 PM
Crikey paul, we agree.

In all honesty I think we do more often than not, it's just that a couple of years I got so fed up with Bruce and people defending him that I had no patience for a lot of posters and you got drawn into that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on February 26, 2020, 04:02:20 PM
I also agree with paul. One thing everyone agrees on is that we've suffered from a lack of continuity over the past ten years, yet at the first sign of anything going wrong we want to rip it up and start again.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on February 26, 2020, 04:25:02 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on February 26, 2020, 04:02:20 PM
I also agree with paul. One thing everyone agrees on is that we've suffered from a lack of continuity over the past ten years, yet at the first sign of anything going wrong we want to rip it up and start again.

Which is the one thing I was trying to say all along while Bruce was here. Obviously, it got to the point where you think let's try something else (after the play off final in Bruce's case) but people on here wanted Smith gone not long after he joined and earlier this season and I don't get that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: malckennedy on February 26, 2020, 04:34:01 PM
Quote from: Clampy on February 26, 2020, 04:25:02 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on February 26, 2020, 04:02:20 PM
I also agree with paul. One thing everyone agrees on is that we've suffered from a lack of continuity over the past ten years, yet at the first sign of anything going wrong we want to rip it up and start again.

Which is the one thing I was trying to say all along while Bruce was here. Obviously, it got to the point where you think let's try something else (after the play off final in Bruce's case) but people on here wanted Smith gone not long after he joined and earlier this season and I don't get that.

There are those (I confess to being one) who didn’t celebrate his arrival in the first place.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ketzster on February 26, 2020, 04:35:21 PM
Continuity is obviously preferable, but it’s only worth sticking with a manager for a long period of time if you’ve got the right one. Dean Smith isn’t the right manager to be giving time to
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on February 26, 2020, 04:41:40 PM
Quote from: Ketzster on February 26, 2020, 04:35:21 PM
Continuity is obviously preferable, but it’s only worth sticking with a manager for a long period of time if you’ve got the right one. Dean Smith isn’t the right manager to be giving time to

Only if that particular manager is doing well over that time. The league apart (and some very dodgy performances), I think promotion and a Cup Final is not bad going bearing in mind the length of time he has been here. Mind you, promotion was all down to Grealish obviously. (rolls eyes).
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: malckennedy on February 26, 2020, 04:45:03 PM
Quote from: Clampy on February 26, 2020, 04:41:40 PM
Quote from: Ketzster on February 26, 2020, 04:35:21 PM
Continuity is obviously preferable, but it’s only worth sticking with a manager for a long period of time if you’ve got the right one. Dean Smith isn’t the right manager to be giving time to

Only if that particular manager is doing well over that time. The league apart (and some very dodgy performances), I think promotion and a Cup Final is not bad going bearing in mind the length of time he has been here. Mind you, promotion was all down to Grealish obviously. (rolls eyes).

It clearly wouldn’t have happened without him. I don’t see how this can be disputed in view of the league position before his return led to 10 straight wins.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on February 26, 2020, 04:47:27 PM
I don’t want Smith gone nor do I want to rip it up and start again.  I was just observing that without Jack, McGinn and Mings I think the squad would really struggle against the better Championship teams.  At the moment I don’t really trust Suso to fill those gaps with adequate replacements.

I dread us going down, I really do.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on February 26, 2020, 04:47:28 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on February 26, 2020, 04:02:20 PM
I also agree with paul. One thing everyone agrees on is that we've suffered from a lack of continuity over the past ten years

Although there certainly hasn't been a lack of continuity in terms of shitness the last ten years.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on February 26, 2020, 04:48:58 PM
Quote from: malckennedy on February 26, 2020, 04:45:03 PM
Quote from: Clampy on February 26, 2020, 04:41:40 PM
Quote from: Ketzster on February 26, 2020, 04:35:21 PM
Continuity is obviously preferable, but it’s only worth sticking with a manager for a long period of time if you’ve got the right one. Dean Smith isn’t the right manager to be giving time to

Only if that particular manager is doing well over that time. The league apart (and some very dodgy performances), I think promotion and a Cup Final is not bad going bearing in mind the length of time he has been here. Mind you, promotion was all down to Grealish obviously. (rolls eyes).

It clearly wouldn’t have happened without him. I don’t see how this can be disputed in view of the league position before his return led to 10 straight wins.

I like to think everybody played a part, even the ones who are no longer here.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on February 26, 2020, 04:49:12 PM
Quote from: malckennedy on February 26, 2020, 04:45:03 PM
Quote from: Clampy on February 26, 2020, 04:41:40 PM
Quote from: Ketzster on February 26, 2020, 04:35:21 PM
Continuity is obviously preferable, but it’s only worth sticking with a manager for a long period of time if you’ve got the right one. Dean Smith isn’t the right manager to be giving time to

Only if that particular manager is doing well over that time. The league apart (and some very dodgy performances), I think promotion and a Cup Final is not bad going bearing in mind the length of time he has been here. Mind you, promotion was all down to Grealish obviously. (rolls eyes).

It clearly wouldn’t have happened without him. I don’t see how this can be disputed in view of the league position before his return led to 10 straight wins.

You'll never know that for definite, but what is undisputed is the fact that Dean Smith got us promoted and on Sunday he will become only the eighth manager in almost a century to lead us out at a Wembley final.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 26, 2020, 04:49:55 PM
I agree with you too Paul. O'Hare looks very promising too I might add. I've been watching his highlights and he has swagger and an end product.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ketzster on February 26, 2020, 04:54:55 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on February 26, 2020, 04:49:12 PM
Quote from: malckennedy on February 26, 2020, 04:45:03 PM
Quote from: Clampy on February 26, 2020, 04:41:40 PM
Quote from: Ketzster on February 26, 2020, 04:35:21 PM
Continuity is obviously preferable, but it’s only worth sticking with a manager for a long period of time if you’ve got the right one. Dean Smith isn’t the right manager to be giving time to

Only if that particular manager is doing well over that time. The league apart (and some very dodgy performances), I think promotion and a Cup Final is not bad going bearing in mind the length of time he has been here. Mind you, promotion was all down to Grealish obviously. (rolls eyes).

It clearly wouldn’t have happened without him. I don’t see how this can be disputed in view of the league position before his return led to 10 straight wins.

You'll never know that for definite, but what is undisputed is the fact that Dean Smith got us promoted and on Sunday he will become only the eighth manager in almost a century to lead us out at a Wembley final.

No we might not know it for definite, but what we do know for definite is that under Smith, without Grealish we were generally pretty appalling. The same problems that exist now, existed then in the run before Grealish came back. Smith didn’t know how to sort it
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on February 26, 2020, 04:55:50 PM
Is there any point in saying where we were in the table when Grealish got injured?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 26, 2020, 05:31:20 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on February 26, 2020, 04:02:20 PM
I also agree with paul. One thing everyone agrees on is that we've suffered from a lack of continuity over the past ten years, yet at the first sign of anything going wrong we want to rip it up and start again.

It's only worth having continuity if the manager is worth sticking with.  The Premier League is littered with the corpses of the careers of decent Championship managers who have then gone on to be less than great in the Premier League.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on February 26, 2020, 05:38:18 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 26, 2020, 05:31:20 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on February 26, 2020, 04:02:20 PM
I also agree with paul. One thing everyone agrees on is that we've suffered from a lack of continuity over the past ten years, yet at the first sign of anything going wrong we want to rip it up and start again.

It's only worth having continuity if the manager is worth sticking with.  The Premier League is littered with the corpses of the careers of decent Championship managers who have then gone on to be less than great in the Premier League.

And there are also a lot of managers who can be both.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on February 26, 2020, 05:49:34 PM
Quote from: Ketzster on February 26, 2020, 04:35:21 PM
Continuity is obviously preferable, but it’s only worth sticking with a manager for a long period of time if you’ve got the right one. Dean Smith isn’t the right manager to be giving time to

It's not just about the manager though, writing players off after half a season (or less) and calling for 7-8 new signings every summer and 3-4 every winter is a massive mistake, 2-3 signings in the summer and then the winter window becomes a chance to address problems but without specific plans to sign anyone.


Even if players leave or managers are replaced you need some consistency in the approach, MON > Houllier > McLeish is the sort of scattergun thinking that creates problems and ditching Smith to bring in Allardyce (for example) would be repeating that. Have a style in mind and if the current manager isn't delivering it then replace him with someone who can move you in that direction, don't change direction.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on February 26, 2020, 05:54:32 PM
Quote from: paul_e on February 26, 2020, 05:49:34 PM
Quote from: Ketzster on February 26, 2020, 04:35:21 PM
Continuity is obviously preferable, but it’s only worth sticking with a manager for a long period of time if you’ve got the right one. Dean Smith isn’t the right manager to be giving time to

It's not just about the manager though, writing players off after half a season (or less) and calling for 7-8 new signings every summer and 3-4 every winter is a massive mistake, 2-3 signings in the summer and then the winter window becomes a chance to address problems but without specific plans to sign anyone.


Even if players leave or managers are replaced you need some consistency in the approach, MON > Houllier > McLeish is the sort of scattergun thinking that creates problems and ditching Smith to bring in Allardyce (for example) would be repeating that. Have a style in mind and if the current manager isn't delivering it then replace him with someone who can move you in that direction, don't change direction.
But is it the style that is wrong or the manager?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on February 26, 2020, 05:57:19 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on February 26, 2020, 05:54:32 PM
Quote from: paul_e on February 26, 2020, 05:49:34 PM
Quote from: Ketzster on February 26, 2020, 04:35:21 PM
Continuity is obviously preferable, but it’s only worth sticking with a manager for a long period of time if you’ve got the right one. Dean Smith isn’t the right manager to be giving time to

It's not just about the manager though, writing players off after half a season (or less) and calling for 7-8 new signings every summer and 3-4 every winter is a massive mistake, 2-3 signings in the summer and then the winter window becomes a chance to address problems but without specific plans to sign anyone.


Even if players leave or managers are replaced you need some consistency in the approach, MON > Houllier > McLeish is the sort of scattergun thinking that creates problems and ditching Smith to bring in Allardyce (for example) would be repeating that. Have a style in mind and if the current manager isn't delivering it then replace him with someone who can move you in that direction, don't change direction.
But is it the style that is wrong or the manager?

Neither.

Under Bruce, McLeish and Lambert it was both.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on February 26, 2020, 06:03:54 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 26, 2020, 05:57:19 PM
Under Bruce, McLeish and Lambert it was both.
Agreed, but something isn't working.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 26, 2020, 06:21:12 PM
In Heaton/Reina/Nyland, Mings, McGinn, Jack and potentially Samatta we have the spine of a good team. It’s just the most of the rest of them are average to poor, and they’re being badly coached.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: DB on February 26, 2020, 06:22:13 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 26, 2020, 06:21:12 PM
In Heaton/Reina/Nyland, Mings, McGinn, Jack and potentially Samatta we have the spine of a good team. It’s just the most of the rest of them are average to poor, and they’re being badly coached.

I agree with that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on February 26, 2020, 06:24:07 PM
As I've said before I think we have an inexperienced manager and an inexperienced squad and those 2 together make us incredibly naive.

This season will be touch and go regardless of what we do from here but if we stay up and stick with everyone I think we'll be in a better place next season with just a handful of signings to replace people like Lansbury and Taylor who are 'senior' players but don't really offer anything.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on February 26, 2020, 06:31:03 PM
Quote from: paul_e on February 26, 2020, 06:24:07 PM
As I've said before I think we have an inexperienced manager and an inexperienced squad and those 2 together make us incredibly naive.

This season will be touch and go regardless of what we do from here but if we stay up and stick with everyone I think we'll be in a better place next season with just a handful of signings to replace people like Lansbury and Taylor who are 'senior' players but don't really offer anything.
I agree next season should be better, if we stay up, and that season will tell us whether Smith is the right man.  But on recruitment I think that handful of signings will be needed to replace some current first teamers, with them dropping down to replace Lansbury, Taylor, etc.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Demitri_C on February 26, 2020, 06:39:20 PM
Quote from: paul_e on February 26, 2020, 02:52:35 PM
The fatalism on here has reached new heights I see, we now have a squad that isn't even top half of the championship with Jack, Mings and McGinn. A couple more defeats and we'll be getting kicked straight into league 1 for being so shit.

On topic, we'd need to replace Mings well and get a proper defensive midfielder but other than that I'd be ok with us going with players already at the club, Samatta and Wesley would be very good at that level, AEG has proven he's good there and I think Trez would do well. Then we've o'hare, vassilev, archer, ramsey and barry who would all get chance to play senior football and have shown glimpses of being very talented. We might lose Heaton and Reina but Steer, Nyland and Sarkic are all capable of being first choice in the championship.

I think we'd be near the top all season and we'd have a lots of youngsters with a lot more experience by the time we came back. What we did wrong when were relegated last time was selling Benteke and Delph and trying to buy a new squad. What we did wrong the first season after relegation last time was try to buy a new squad. What we did wrong when we sacked RDM was take on a manager who approaches every window like a kid in a sweet shop. What we did wrong (with no alternative) this season was buy a new squad. Continuity matters and we've had none for 4 years, we need to fill gaps and adapt rather than tear down and replace, regardless of which league we're in next season.

Bet you thought the same when we were relegated and signed the likes of McCormack and elphick yet we finished a embarrassing 13th.

Its hard tk aay as we dont know who we would sign if we went down and who leaves.  But certainly without mcgjnn grealish mings for me we will struggle badly without those three are the spine

Any spine of a team that leaves makes you significantly weaker.

I also add if we coildnt stay up with thsoe three what chance jn hell woukd we have if we came back again ?

We have to do eveeything not to go down sk we can retain players like mcginn and mings.

If we stay ul we can oush on and get rid of players like elmo Taylor trez and aeg who are not good enough at this level
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 26, 2020, 06:56:02 PM
The Relegation scenario has gone from Deny to Resist to Experiment, just a matter of time before we get to Change then?
Relegation will be a disaster,.
The heart will be ripped out of the team leaving the rest of a failed squad traumatized.
how do we know that our owners will be so committed if they end up back at square one.
I really don’t think we can assume they will “ go again”
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 26, 2020, 07:04:55 PM
My view is that continuity is brilliant if you’re sticking to the right path. If it’s the wrong path then you’re just creating a pipeline of problems. I don’t know what the answer is in respect of Dean and I’d love it if he could succeed, but my concern is we don’t look like we’re moving/getting better. Hopefully I’m just missing it and an upturn is round the corner.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on February 26, 2020, 07:51:07 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on February 26, 2020, 06:39:20 PM
Quote from: paul_e on February 26, 2020, 02:52:35 PM
The fatalism on here has reached new heights I see, we now have a squad that isn't even top half of the championship with Jack, Mings and McGinn. A couple more defeats and we'll be getting kicked straight into league 1 for being so shit.

On topic, we'd need to replace Mings well and get a proper defensive midfielder but other than that I'd be ok with us going with players already at the club, Samatta and Wesley would be very good at that level, AEG has proven he's good there and I think Trez would do well. Then we've o'hare, vassilev, archer, ramsey and barry who would all get chance to play senior football and have shown glimpses of being very talented. We might lose Heaton and Reina but Steer, Nyland and Sarkic are all capable of being first choice in the championship.

I think we'd be near the top all season and we'd have a lots of youngsters with a lot more experience by the time we came back. What we did wrong when were relegated last time was selling Benteke and Delph and trying to buy a new squad. What we did wrong the first season after relegation last time was try to buy a new squad. What we did wrong when we sacked RDM was take on a manager who approaches every window like a kid in a sweet shop. What we did wrong (with no alternative) this season was buy a new squad. Continuity matters and we've had none for 4 years, we need to fill gaps and adapt rather than tear down and replace, regardless of which league we're in next season.

Bet you thought the same when we were relegated and signed the likes of McCormack and elphick yet we finished a embarrassing 13th.

Its hard tk aay as we dont know who we would sign if we went down and who leaves.  But certainly without mcgjnn grealish mings for me we will struggle badly without those three are the spine

Any spine of a team that leaves makes you significantly weaker.

I also add if we coildnt stay up with thsoe three what chance jn hell woukd we have if we came back again ?

We have to do eveeything not to go down sk we can retain players like mcginn and mings.

If we stay ul we can oush on and get rid of players like elmo Taylor trez and aeg who are not good enough at this level

You'd lose that bet, and mostly because you haven't bothered reading my posts. Signing players like McCormack was the exact opposite of what I think is the correct approach, something you could easily check by looking at my posts from the last couple of hours on this thread.

The rest of your post is so littered with spelling mistakes that it's hard to read but yes we'd lose players, but we'd have a squad with a year of experience in the premier league/England and enough money in the bank to make the handful of signings we'd need to replace the leavers. Get those 2-3 signings right and we'd be comfortably in the mix for automatic promotion.

If we were promoted after 1 season the squad would be similar to the current one (without the 3 obvious names and with replacements instead) but with so much more experience of playing together, which makes a massive difference. Add to that the fact that we would also have the same £120m we spent this season but because we'd held on to the squad it'd be spent on 3-4 players rather than half a squad.

I am in no way suggesting we shouldn't try to stay up (I think we will anyway), this is in direct response to the idea that we'd be bottom half of the championship next season not planning for anything.


Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on February 26, 2020, 07:52:50 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on February 26, 2020, 07:04:55 PM
My view is that continuity is brilliant if you’re sticking to the right path. If it’s the wrong path then you’re just creating a pipeline of problems. I don’t know what the answer is in respect of Dean and I’d love it if he could succeed, but my concern is we don’t look like we’re moving/getting better. Hopefully I’m just missing it and an upturn is round the corner.

I think the type of manager we have the 'shape' of the squad are the right path so the changes should be small, minor course redirects rather than changing direction.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on February 26, 2020, 08:09:09 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 26, 2020, 06:56:02 PM
The Relegation scenario has gone from Deny to Resist to Experiment, just a matter of time before we get to Change then?
Relegation will be a disaster,.
The heart will be ripped out of the team leaving the rest of a failed squad traumatized.
how do we know that our owners will be so committed if they end up back at square one.
I really don’t think we can assume they will “ go again”

OK, I think I understand. You're chicken little?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 26, 2020, 08:12:48 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 26, 2020, 08:09:09 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 26, 2020, 06:56:02 PM
The Relegation scenario has gone from Deny to Resist to Experiment, just a matter of time before we get to Change then?
Relegation will be a disaster,.
The heart will be ripped out of the team leaving the rest of a failed squad traumatized.
how do we know that our owners will be so committed if they end up back at square one.
I really don’t think we can assume they will “ go again”

OK, I think I understand. You're chicken little?
What are you then?

Don’t bother answering, I think we know.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on February 26, 2020, 08:49:42 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 26, 2020, 01:24:22 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 26, 2020, 01:07:23 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 26, 2020, 12:42:17 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 26, 2020, 12:20:30 PM
Jota would still be with us. He may not be Premier League but he'd do just fine in the Championship.

O'Hare would be back and ours. Young Barry would no doubt get games too.

I don't want us to go down but to suggest it's the end of the world is typical doom mongering.

We survived last time with vastly shitter owners. This time we'd be fine. The trick would be recruitment for the next season in the top flight with a largely settled squad.

Jota couldn’t get into a shit Blues team. Buying him was entirely pointless.

O'Hare? Barry? Or is everyone that we have on the books (excluding Grealish, Mings and McGinn) shit?

No they're not all shit.  Hourihane would still do a job at that level, as would the likes of Targett and Gilbert.  Picking somebody like Jota who IS shit by virtue of being too physically incapable at either Premier League or Championship level isn't a great way of reinforcing your point though.  He's probably the worst player to make an appearance for us this year.

Jota was great at Brentford.

It depends where you play him. Hopeless out wide at this level as he was when SHA put him out wide in their narrow 4-4-2 last season.

At number 10 he can certainly be more than decent at championship level. Not going to play there here while Grealish is around but could be o.k as a rotation option next season (we will obviously buy a replacement if/when Jack goes).
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on February 26, 2020, 08:56:23 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on February 26, 2020, 04:47:27 PM
I don’t want Smith gone nor do I want to rip it up and start again.  I was just observing that without Jack, McGinn and Mings I think the squad would really struggle against the better Championship teams.  At the moment I don’t really trust Suso to fill those gaps with adequate replacements.

I dread us going down, I really do.

You don't know who we'd sign though. We'd obviously sign player who replace the 5-6 who'd leave and just generally strength for extra 10 games a season which you get down there.

We can still attract decent players not getting games at premier league young and old. Chester, Snodgrass, Kodjia, Jedinak, Whelan, Tammy, Adomah, Neil Taylor.

Various opinions on those (especially the last one!) and we attracted seven of them from premier league clubs and they played big parts in our two play off seasons.

No worse if not better than some of the players we signed last summer.

Obviously the little elephant is FFP. We got away with it being promoted as likes of Bournemouth and Leicester have done in the past so a concern what would happen given they've charged Derby and Sheff Weds this season who've massively overspent on their squads.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: nigel on February 26, 2020, 10:11:11 PM
If we went down, assuming Grealish, Mings, McGinn and Heaton would leave, I can’t see any others going, we could still field a strong enough team to bounce straight back.
Perm 11 from 17

                                   Steer/Nyland

                          Konsa/Engels/Chester/Hause

Gilbert.                            Nakamba.                           Targett

                AEG/O’Hare/Barry/Hourihane/Luiz/Trezeguet

                                    Sammata/Wesley
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: N'ZMAV on February 27, 2020, 07:15:56 AM
not sure about re-signing Gareth Barry.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: GarTomas on February 27, 2020, 07:22:37 AM
Quote from: Ketzster on February 26, 2020, 04:54:55 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on February 26, 2020, 04:49:12 PM
Quote from: malckennedy on February 26, 2020, 04:45:03 PM
Quote from: Clampy on February 26, 2020, 04:41:40 PM
Quote from: Ketzster on February 26, 2020, 04:35:21 PM
Continuity is obviously preferable, but it’s only worth sticking with a manager for a long period of time if you’ve got the right one. Dean Smith isn’t the right manager to be giving time to

Only if that particular manager is doing well over that time. The league apart (and some very dodgy performances), I think promotion and a Cup Final is not bad going bearing in mind the length of time he has been here. Mind you, promotion was all down to Grealish obviously. (rolls eyes).

It clearly wouldn’t have happened without him. I don’t see how this can be disputed in view of the league position before his return led to 10 straight wins.

You'll never know that for definite, but what is undisputed is the fact that Dean Smith got us promoted and on Sunday he will become only the eighth manager in almost a century to lead us out at a Wembley final.

No we might not know it for definite, but what we do know for definite is that under Smith, without Grealish we were generally pretty appalling. The same problems that exist now, existed then in the run before Grealish came back. Smith didn’t know how to sort it

Can we agree that Grealish return to the side went hand in hand with our ten game winning run? Yes.

Can we agree that Grealish has got better and better in the past 12 months, and surpassed expectations of how he was expected to perform this year in the Premiership? I think yes.

Could we then agree that maybe Smith is helping Grealish get to these levels?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on February 27, 2020, 07:59:41 AM
Quote from: N'ZMAV on February 27, 2020, 07:15:56 AM
not sure about re-signing Gareth Barry.

Louie Louie
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on February 27, 2020, 08:14:26 AM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on February 26, 2020, 06:31:03 PM
Quote from: paul_e on February 26, 2020, 06:24:07 PM
As I've said before I think we have an inexperienced manager and an inexperienced squad and those 2 together make us incredibly naive.

This season will be touch and go regardless of what we do from here but if we stay up and stick with everyone I think we'll be in a better place next season with just a handful of signings to replace people like Lansbury and Taylor who are 'senior' players but don't really offer anything.
I agree next season should be better, if we stay up, and that season will tell us whether Smith is the right man.  But on recruitment I think that handful of signings will be needed to replace some current first teamers, with them dropping down to replace Lansbury, Taylor, etc.
I think there's a critical addition to what you say - will the likes of Ramsey, O'Hare and Vassilev have the capability and coaching support to step up into the first team? We're led to believe they might have the potential, and if we can blend them into a squad that has had the experience of fighting for and saving Premier League status we may have the opportunitiy to resally push on next season; with the addition of 2-3 more experienced and better quality additions.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on February 27, 2020, 08:20:27 AM
Quote from: GarTomas on February 27, 2020, 07:22:37 AM
Quote from: Ketzster on February 26, 2020, 04:54:55 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on February 26, 2020, 04:49:12 PM
Quote from: malckennedy on February 26, 2020, 04:45:03 PM
Quote from: Clampy on February 26, 2020, 04:41:40 PM
Quote from: Ketzster on February 26, 2020, 04:35:21 PM
Continuity is obviously preferable, but it’s only worth sticking with a manager for a long period of time if you’ve got the right one. Dean Smith isn’t the right manager to be giving time to

Only if that particular manager is doing well over that time. The league apart (and some very dodgy performances), I think promotion and a Cup Final is not bad going bearing in mind the length of time he has been here. Mind you, promotion was all down to Grealish obviously. (rolls eyes).

It clearly wouldn’t have happened without him. I don’t see how this can be disputed in view of the league position before his return led to 10 straight wins.

You'll never know that for definite, but what is undisputed is the fact that Dean Smith got us promoted and on Sunday he will become only the eighth manager in almost a century to lead us out at a Wembley final.

No we might not know it for definite, but what we do know for definite is that under Smith, without Grealish we were generally pretty appalling. The same problems that exist now, existed then in the run before Grealish came back. Smith didn’t know how to sort it

Can we agree that Grealish return to the side went hand in hand with our ten game winning run? Yes.

Can we agree that Grealish has got better and better in the past 12 months, and surpassed expectations of how he was expected to perform this year in the Premiership? I think yes.

Could we then agree that maybe Smith is helping Grealish get to these levels?
To your question - No, you're making a big assumption.
Smith may be enhancing JG's ability; but he may not! we don't know.
I don't like Smith playing JG on the left: I don't think that is helping Greaslish to be the best he can be.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Allan C on February 27, 2020, 08:42:22 AM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on February 26, 2020, 06:03:54 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 26, 2020, 05:57:19 PM
Under Bruce, McLeish and Lambert it was both.
Agreed, but something isn't working.
What isn’t working is time. Smith and the rest have had a year to rebuild how many years of neglect and mismanagement??? They need time to arrest that and steer us to where we belong.  I agree that we need to stay in this division but I don’t see it as a total disaster if we slip provided that the end result is us maintaining a rebuilding in the right way. The continuity must be there and changing to another “saviour” isn’t that
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: andyh on February 27, 2020, 08:59:42 AM
Quote from: nigel on February 26, 2020, 10:11:11 PM
If we went down, assuming Grealish, Mings, McGinn and Heaton would leave, I can’t see any others going, we could still field a strong enough team to bounce straight back.
Perm 11 from 17

                                   Steer/Nyland

                          Konsa/Engels/Chester/Hause

Gilbert.                            Nakamba.                           Targett

                AEG/O’Hare/Barry/Hourihane/Luiz/Trezeguet

                                    Sammata/Wesley

I agree, we know we would lose jack, SJM, Mings and Heaton. That's a given.
I understand how and why you have listed the the players you have, but I think we would also lose a fair few of those listed because of 'billy big bollox' syndrome and their agents demanding moves because they are 'too good' for the championship.

 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on February 27, 2020, 09:35:46 AM
I don't think there's a single 'Billy big bollocks' in the squad barring, potentially, Luiz. (maybe Engels if rumours are to be believed).

I also think we'd retain Heaton due to his injury.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 27, 2020, 09:49:00 AM
Heaton's the one player we could probably afford to lose.  I think Nyland has shown enough to suggest that he's a perfectly adequate replacement.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on February 27, 2020, 09:49:29 AM
I agree, i can't see who'd kick up a stink and force a move from the list Nigel gave, Luiz maybe but I don't think so.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 27, 2020, 09:50:15 AM
Quote from: Allan C on February 27, 2020, 08:42:22 AM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on February 26, 2020, 06:03:54 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 26, 2020, 05:57:19 PM
Under Bruce, McLeish and Lambert it was both.
Agreed, but something isn't working.
What isn’t working is time. Smith and the rest have had a year to rebuild how many years of neglect and mismanagement??? They need time to arrest that and steer us to where we belong.  I agree that we need to stay in this division but I don’t see it as a total disaster if we slip provided that the end result is us maintaining a rebuilding in the right way. The continuity must be there and changing to another “saviour” isn’t that

There's no point in having continuity for the sake of it if the manager isn't good enough.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on February 27, 2020, 09:57:38 AM
Quote from: Risso on February 27, 2020, 09:49:00 AM
Heaton's the one player we could probably afford to lose.  I think Nyland has shown enough to suggest that he's a perfectly adequate replacement.

As has Steer, and Sarkic did superbly in Scotland and deserves a chance.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on February 27, 2020, 10:06:50 AM
Quote from: Risso on February 27, 2020, 09:50:15 AM
There's no point in having continuity for the sake of it if the manager isn't good enough.
This is the crux of it. I am still with Dean but an assessment must be made very soon as to his capability. Yes there are lots of variables impacting on his performance but I am sure there are methods available for Purslow and Pitarch to carry out a capability review after nearly 18 months in charge. Furthermore the Club is not here to train a manager even if there is evidence of top level capability. Aston Villa FC requires a finished article top of his profession able to operate comfortably at highest level. If Dean is not that I love him but ......
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on February 27, 2020, 10:18:23 AM
Quote from: Risso on February 27, 2020, 09:49:00 AM
Heaton's the one player we could probably afford to lose.  I think Nyland has shown enough to suggest that he's a perfectly adequate replacement.

Nyland, Steer and Sarkic would be a strong enough keeper department. With Heaton as part of the team in the background (until he's fit and decisions need to be made) I think we'd be fine.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: nigel on February 27, 2020, 11:28:59 AM
Quote from: andyh on February 27, 2020, 08:59:42 AM
Quote from: nigel on February 26, 2020, 10:11:11 PM
If we went down, assuming Grealish, Mings, McGinn and Heaton would leave, I can’t see any others going, we could still field a strong enough team to bounce straight back.
Perm 11 from 17

                                   Steer/Nyland

                          Konsa/Engels/Chester/Hause

Gilbert.                            Nakamba.                           Targett

                AEG/O’Hare/Barry/Hourihane/Luiz/Trezeguet

                                    Sammata/Wesley

I agree, we know we would lose jack, SJM, Mings and Heaton. That's a given.
I understand how and why you have listed the the players you have, but I think we would also lose a fair few of those listed because of 'billy big bollox' syndrome and their agents demanding moves because they are 'too good' for the championship.

 

That’s a fair point, mate.
My logic is that DS has instilled a ‘no billy big bollox’ attitude at the club, and the fact no one has really stepped up a level consistently.
Given we’d, probably, get in the region of £150m for those 4 we could easily add a couple and still be FFP compliant
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on February 27, 2020, 12:08:14 PM
Heats was on MOTD2 the other week. When they asked him about when he'd be back his answer was it was taking a little longer than he hoped so I took from that he wouldn't be ready for August, more likely September or October so don't see clubs signing him until he's playing again so think he'll be here until January at least.

Everyone thought Butland would leave Stoke as soon as they went down. He's still there two years later.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on February 27, 2020, 12:13:24 PM
Quote from: olaftab on February 27, 2020, 10:06:50 AM
Quote from: Risso on February 27, 2020, 09:50:15 AM
There's no point in having continuity for the sake of it if the manager isn't good enough.
This is the crux of it. I am still with Dean but an assessment must be made very soon as to his capability. Yes there are lots of variables impacting on his performance but I am sure there are methods available for Purslow and Pitarch to carry out a capability review after nearly 18 months in charge. Furthermore the Club is not here to train a manager even if there is evidence of top level capability. Aston Villa FC requires a finished article top of his profession able to operate comfortably at highest level. If Dean is not that I love him but ......

Except that he's young, he's still learning, and has the potential to be really good. Much like many of the squad. I'd have thought there is an ongoing appraisal process, there always is in football. If he lasts the rest of the season, and I believe he will, then it's time for a review. There will be a huge amount up in the air at that point, not just the head coach's role, but also new player contracts, new signings etc. All of which will vary according to which division we're in.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 27, 2020, 12:33:05 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 27, 2020, 09:49:00 AM
Heaton's the one player we could probably afford to lose.  I think Nyland has shown enough to suggest that he's a perfectly adequate replacement.

I think this post demonstrates that sometimes patience with a player is needed.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clark W Griswold on February 27, 2020, 01:03:47 PM
I've a hunch we'd be more likely to keep Heaton than Luiz but there you go.

I think even if Heaton did go and assuming Jack, Mings, McGinn and Luiz went as well, GK, Defence and up front we'd probably have enough for top 2 in the championship assuming the younger players keep getting better and any injury returnees get back to speed quickly. Midfield would need some work but with the money we'd have coming in it wouldn't be an issue.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Allan C on February 27, 2020, 10:24:37 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 27, 2020, 09:50:15 AM
Quote from: Allan C on February 27, 2020, 08:42:22 AM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on February 26, 2020, 06:03:54 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 26, 2020, 05:57:19 PM
Under Bruce, McLeish and Lambert it was both.
Agreed, but something isn't working.
What isn’t working is time. Smith and the rest have had a year to rebuild how many years of neglect and mismanagement??? They need time to arrest that and steer us to where we belong.  I agree that we need to stay in this division but I don’t see it as a total disaster if we slip provided that the end result is us maintaining a rebuilding in the right way. The continuity must be there and changing to another “saviour” isn’t that

There's no point in having continuity for the sake of it if the manager isn't good enough.
I think Smith is good enough. I just don’t think he’s had the time to implement fully what he (and we) want yet. Like I said, the clubs decay isn’t gonna be fixed in one year. My assumption that Smith is the right man but we sack him anyway to be replaced by the next “saviour” or “expert” (enter all the usual contenders there) will mean starting all over again. We’re having the necessary pain now of rebuilding, the gain is to come
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on February 28, 2020, 12:22:31 AM
Quote from: Risso on February 27, 2020, 09:50:15 AM
Quote from: Allan C on February 27, 2020, 08:42:22 AM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on February 26, 2020, 06:03:54 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 26, 2020, 05:57:19 PM
Under Bruce, McLeish and Lambert it was both.
Agreed, but something isn't working.
What isn’t working is time. Smith and the rest have had a year to rebuild how many years of neglect and mismanagement??? They need time to arrest that and steer us to where we belong.  I agree that we need to stay in this division but I don’t see it as a total disaster if we slip provided that the end result is us maintaining a rebuilding in the right way. The continuity must be there and changing to another “saviour” isn’t that

There's no point in having continuity for the sake of it if the manager isn't good enough.

We can always continue the same path but improve the manager. Redknapp at Spurs, what was it, top 4? Before that Adkins at Spurs? Hang on, Pochettino is the link, must be Villa bound unless Real Madrid turn their noses up to him in the summer.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Allan C on February 28, 2020, 05:16:53 AM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on February 28, 2020, 12:22:31 AM
Quote from: Risso on February 27, 2020, 09:50:15 AM
Quote from: Allan C on February 27, 2020, 08:42:22 AM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on February 26, 2020, 06:03:54 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 26, 2020, 05:57:19 PM
Under Bruce, McLeish and Lambert it was both.
Agreed, but something isn't working.
What isn’t working is time. Smith and the rest have had a year to rebuild how many years of neglect and mismanagement??? They need time to arrest that and steer us to where we belong.  I agree that we need to stay in this division but I don’t see it as a total disaster if we slip provided that the end result is us maintaining a rebuilding in the right way. The continuity must be there and changing to another “saviour” isn’t that

There's no point in having continuity for the sake of it if the manager isn't good enough.

We can always continue the same path but improve the manager. Redknapp at Spurs, what was it, top 4? Before that Adkins at Spurs? Hang on, Pochettino is the link, must be Villa bound unless Real Madrid turn their noses up to him in the summer.
Yes. I agree with that because it’s inevitable eventually either now or in ten years time and change for genuine improvement has to happen. Changing to the likes of Allardyce would be a massive step backwards IMO
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 28, 2020, 07:09:38 AM
Quote from: Clark W Griswold on February 27, 2020, 01:03:47 PM
I've a hunch we'd be more likely to keep Heaton than Luiz but there you go.

I think even if Heaton did go and assuming Jack, Mings, McGinn and Luiz went as well, GK, Defence and up front we'd probably have enough for top 2 in the championship assuming the younger players keep getting better and any injury returnees get back to speed quickly. Midfield would need some work but with the money we'd have coming in it wouldn't be an issue.
Enough for the top 2
I have seen a lot of these type of predictions and sadly it has not allways turned out like that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on February 28, 2020, 12:06:50 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 28, 2020, 07:09:38 AM
Quote from: Clark W Griswold on February 27, 2020, 01:03:47 PM
I've a hunch we'd be more likely to keep Heaton than Luiz but there you go.

I think even if Heaton did go and assuming Jack, Mings, McGinn and Luiz went as well, GK, Defence and up front we'd probably have enough for top 2 in the championship assuming the younger players keep getting better and any injury returnees get back to speed quickly. Midfield would need some work but with the money we'd have coming in it wouldn't be an issue.
Enough for the top 2
I have seen a lot of these type of predictions and sadly it has not allways turned out like that.
I don't agree with you often Chicago, but that's a fair point.  There was quite a few predictions that we'd be top 10 this year.

I'm not sure replacing Mings, Grealish and McGinn with more playesr from Brugge or whethever Suso goes bargain shopping this summer would be enough.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clark W Griswold on February 28, 2020, 01:45:55 PM
It is dependent on the young defenders cutting out the cock ups, Wesley getting over the injury very quickly and us improving the midfield/wide attacking areas with a couple of players who are real quality for that division and who hit the ground running (and also on us not having too much bad luck with injuries) but yes, it's a possibility IMHO albeit a slightly optimistic one.

I also thought that we'd be better this season than we have been though, i will admit. I think if McGinn, Mings and Grealish had remained injury free all season we probably would have have had another 5-6 points on the board which would have been more like what i was expecting. I suppose it's rare that things work out like that though.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Reuben on February 28, 2020, 02:09:41 PM
Hopefully of course we won't have to find out about all this, but I remember thinking Ayew would rip the division apart when considering who would stay when we went down last time.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on February 28, 2020, 04:24:38 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51546341 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51546341)

Plenty of plaudits here for Deano's ability and prowess; even from our very own Mr Woodhall.
One quoted intrigued me, in the light of what we're seeing this season:"You knew very early on he was going to be good because he was very focused, knew how he wanted to play and the style he wanted to play."
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Charmer on February 28, 2020, 05:48:55 PM
'In this Premier League world, there should always be room for the local-boy-made-good'

If you have an ounce of romance in your soul, you cannot fail to agree with that.

Come on Deano. Lead 'em out on Sunday and make us all proud. UTV
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Reg Brown on February 28, 2020, 07:33:08 PM
Sticking with Dean makes sense. There’s no point in sacking him now. It would be a death sentence bearing in mind who else might be available. If we go down we have an oven ready successful Championship manager.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ASHTONVILLA on February 28, 2020, 07:45:36 PM
Quote from: Reg Brown on February 28, 2020, 07:33:08 PM
Sticking with Dean makes sense. There’s no point in sacking him now. It would be a death sentence bearing in mind who else might be available. If we go down we have an oven ready successful Championship manager.

He was abysmal in the Championship whenever Grealish wasn't available. Frequently he was not great even with him.

I don't think there is a snowballs chance in hell Smith would get us back up. He should have gone weeks ago, and there is no way he should stay if we go down.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Reg Brown on February 28, 2020, 07:48:01 PM
Quote from: ASHTONVILLA on February 28, 2020, 07:45:36 PM
Quote from: Reg Brown on February 28, 2020, 07:33:08 PM
Sticking with Dean makes sense. There’s no point in sacking him now. It would be a death sentence bearing in mind who else might be available. If we go down we have an oven ready successful Championship manager.

He was abysmal in the Championship whenever Grealish wasn't available. Frequently he was not great even with him.

I don't think there is a snowballs chance in hell Smith would get us back up. He should have gone weeks ago, and there is no way he should stay if we go down.

He wasn’t abysmal. He worked a miracle. He took us from no hopers to premier league against all odds. Who else would we get? Gary Monk?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TelfordVilla on February 28, 2020, 07:48:52 PM
Quote from: ASHTONVILLA on February 28, 2020, 07:45:36 PM
Quote from: Reg Brown on February 28, 2020, 07:33:08 PM
Sticking with Dean makes sense. There’s no point in sacking him now. It would be a death sentence bearing in mind who else might be available. If we go down we have an oven ready successful Championship manager.

He was abysmal in the Championship whenever Grealish wasn't available. Frequently he was not great even with him.

I don't think there is a snowballs chance in hell Smith would get us back up. He should have gone weeks ago, and there is no way he should stay if we go down.
what a total crock of a post
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SheffieldVillain on February 28, 2020, 07:54:04 PM
Quote from: ASHTONVILLA on February 28, 2020, 07:45:36 PM
Quote from: Reg Brown on February 28, 2020, 07:33:08 PM
Sticking with Dean makes sense. There’s no point in sacking him now. It would be a death sentence bearing in mind who else might be available. If we go down we have an oven ready successful Championship manager.

He was abysmal in the Championship whenever Grealish wasn't available. Frequently he was not great even with him.

I don't think there is a snowballs chance in hell Smith would get us back up. He should have gone weeks ago, and there is no way he should stay if we go down.

Quite a trick, being rubbish in most matches while getting promoted and putting together a 10 match winning run.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on February 28, 2020, 08:06:19 PM
Yeah he's been shit for us.

Promoted after 7 months in the job. A League Cup Final. Not in the relegation places in the Premier League having got there a year ahead of the plan.

And all that having had to deal with completely rebuilding the squad.

I hope he enjoys every minute of Sunday and that his team does him, and us, proud.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ketzster on February 28, 2020, 08:29:59 PM
Quote from: Reg Brown on February 28, 2020, 07:48:01 PM
Quote from: ASHTONVILLA on February 28, 2020, 07:45:36 PM
Quote from: Reg Brown on February 28, 2020, 07:33:08 PM
Sticking with Dean makes sense. There’s no point in sacking him now. It would be a death sentence bearing in mind who else might be available. If we go down we have an oven ready successful Championship manager.

He was abysmal in the Championship whenever Grealish wasn't available. Frequently he was not great even with him.

I don't think there is a snowballs chance in hell Smith would get us back up. He should have gone weeks ago, and there is no way he should stay if we go down.

He wasn’t abysmal. He worked a miracle. He took us from no hopers to premier league against all odds. Who else would we get? Gary Monk?

No, Ashtonvilla is correct in his assessment. Nobody has suggested Gary Monk as an alternative. The sensible thing is to solidify in the division with a bit of pragmatism and then start to evolve over time once you are stable. The football under Smith is a mess and there is nothing you can latch on to where you think yes that looks like progress is being made or something is being learnt. The players don’t look like they receive any coaching or coherent instruction. Just because you use Gary Monk as an example doesn’t mean there aren’t alternatives out there that wouldn’t do a better job
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT on February 28, 2020, 08:45:18 PM
Quote from: SheffieldVillain on February 28, 2020, 07:54:04 PM
Quote from: ASHTONVILLA on February 28, 2020, 07:45:36 PM
Quote from: Reg Brown on February 28, 2020, 07:33:08 PM
Sticking with Dean makes sense. There’s no point in sacking him now. It would be a death sentence bearing in mind who else might be available. If we go down we have an oven ready successful Championship manager.

He was abysmal in the Championship whenever Grealish wasn't available. Frequently he was not great even with him.

I don't think there is a snowballs chance in hell Smith would get us back up. He should have gone weeks ago, and there is no way he should stay if we go down.

Quite a trick, being rubbish in most matches while getting promoted and putting together a 10 match winning run.



Yeah, apparently during the ten game winning run, Dean had no influence in tactics, team selection or anything else. Everything was down to Jack.

Abysmal.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on February 28, 2020, 09:19:26 PM
That's how some fans are I'm afraid. In their attempt to be proven right, they only post when it's not going well. (not the poster Ashtonvilla by the way).
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ketzster on February 28, 2020, 09:25:04 PM
Quote from: Clampy on February 28, 2020, 09:19:26 PM
That's how some fans are I'm afraid. In their attempt to be proven right, they only post when it's not going well. (not the poster Ashtonvilla by the way).

When people post is their prerogative and makes no difference to whether their point is relevant or not. People say it was a miracle Smith getting us to the play offs but they don’t take into consideration it was a miracle because Smith did such a dismal job for a prolonged period before Derby at home. Yes I know Bruce hadn’t started well but Smith had long enough. Bearing in mind the resources at his disposal, it could be argued that we should have finished higher than 5th last season, not that it was some kind of major achievement
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: BoVillan esq on February 28, 2020, 09:26:48 PM
Quote from: Reg Brown on February 28, 2020, 07:48:01 PM
Quote from: ASHTONVILLA on February 28, 2020, 07:45:36 PM
Quote from: Reg Brown on February 28, 2020, 07:33:08 PM
Sticking with Dean makes sense. There’s no point in sacking him now. It would be a death sentence bearing in mind who else might be available. If we go down we have an oven ready successful Championship manager.

He was abysmal in the Championship whenever Grealish wasn't available. Frequently he was not great even with him.

I don't think there is a snowballs chance in hell Smith would get us back up. He should have gone weeks ago, and there is no way he should stay if we go down.

He wasn’t abysmal. He worked a miracle. He took us from no hopers to premier league against all odds. Who else would we get? Gary Monk?

Didn't Steve Bruce almost get us promoted in the previous season and didn't Steve Bruce save us from the drop into League 1 within a few months of taking over, I wouldn't call that a miracle, have to say it, I wouldn't consider what Dean Smith has done a miracle, he's done a very good job, fair play, but I think he's gone as far as he can regardless of us staying up or not. I think it all comes down to how ambitious the club is, do we want more of this or do we want a more capable person guiding us to greatness.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Reg Brown on February 28, 2020, 09:32:36 PM
Quote from: BoVillan esq on February 28, 2020, 09:26:48 PM
Quote from: Reg Brown on February 28, 2020, 07:48:01 PM
Quote from: ASHTONVILLA on February 28, 2020, 07:45:36 PM
Quote from: Reg Brown on February 28, 2020, 07:33:08 PM
Sticking with Dean makes sense. There’s no point in sacking him now. It would be a death sentence bearing in mind who else might be available. If we go down we have an oven ready successful Championship manager.

He was abysmal in the Championship whenever Grealish wasn't available. Frequently he was not great even with him.

I don't think there is a snowballs chance in hell Smith would get us back up. He should have gone weeks ago, and there is no way he should stay if we go down.

He wasn’t abysmal. He worked a miracle. He took us from no hopers to premier league against all odds. Who else would we get? Gary Monk?

Didn't Steve Bruce almost get us promoted in the previous season and didn't Steve Bruce save us from the drop into League 1 within a few months of taking over, I wouldn't call that a miracle, have to say it, I wouldn't consider what Dean Smith has done a miracle, he's done a very good job, fair play, but I think he's gone as far as he can regardless of us staying up or not. I think it all comes down to how ambitious the club is, do we want more of this or do we want a more capable person guiding us to greatness.

Which leads us again to the big question. If not Dean then who?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on February 28, 2020, 09:40:22 PM
The part of that argument I really don't like is the idea that losing the best player in the league for a 3rd of the season shouldn't have much of an impact on results. We had a team built around Grealish and McGinn that was starting to look ok despite having the worst defence I can ever remember at the club. losing 1 of the 2 players that revival was built around was always going to be a problem but that was down to Bruce more than Smith because he left us with such a fucking mess of a squad.

It also ignores everything else happening at the time. We had Chester finally break down, leaving us with no choice but to throw a new defence together, we had a new keeper come in, struggle to settle and then get injured and force us to play yet another new keeper. We had a month of will he, won't he about Tammy leaving.

This isn't to make excuses, it's just pointing out that the whole thing was more complicated than just saying Jack came back and saved our season and Smith had nothing to do with it.

Having Jack back and making him the captain had a huge impact, no one denies that, but it also coincided with the back 5 starting to look settled and build a bit of an understanding, which was why we suddenly started getting clean sheets and when we did concede we kept it to 1 (after the window closed we only conceded more than 1 in 3 games out of 16, it was 14 in the previous 30).

None of this ignores the fact that this season hasn't gone as well as we'd have hoped but the revisionism to give all the credit for our promotion to Grealish is pathetic.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: rougegorge on February 28, 2020, 10:07:47 PM
I want every Villa manager to succeed and especially a fan of the club.

However, I have been disappointed with the management and even more so with the recruitment this season. Spending lots of money on lots of indifferent players has not proven to be a good idea, whoever was responsible.

Just as it's simplistic to say that Grealish single-handedly got us up and to give Smith no credit, it's equally simplistic for people to blame Bruce for the squad we started with last season. Yes, we needed defensive cover, but Bruce was working in harder conditions at the time than Smith has had for example.

Also, Bruce signed Tammy and McGinn who were pivotal in our promotion. What is so disappointing is that Suso and Smith haven't really unearthed any diamonds this season. 

If we do somehow stay up, the squad needs another overhaul, but from what I have seen,  I wouldn't have a lot of faith in the current recruitment and management team. 

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on February 28, 2020, 10:10:18 PM
Quote from: Ketzster on February 28, 2020, 09:25:04 PM
Quote from: Clampy on February 28, 2020, 09:19:26 PM
That's how some fans are I'm afraid. In their attempt to be proven right, they only post when it's not going well. (not the poster Ashtonvilla by the way).

When people post is their prerogative and makes no difference to whether their point is relevant or not. People say it was a miracle Smith getting us to the play offs but they don’t take into consideration it was a miracle because Smith did such a dismal job for a prolonged period before Derby at home. Yes I know Bruce hadn’t started well but Smith had long enough. Bearing in mind the resources at his disposal, it could be argued that we should have finished higher than 5th last season, not that it was some kind of major achievement

I knew you would reply. I can't think for the life of me why.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: RamboandBruno on February 28, 2020, 10:23:05 PM
God if that’s the case then every manager in the last 10 years has done a dismal job. For most that may be true with a lot of extenuating circumstances.....but to actually say smith did a dismal job. (Albeit referencing the pre match period) when we had the best run of winning games in our entire history is just f##kin mad. Anyway utv and all that
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on February 29, 2020, 12:38:27 AM
Quote from: Ketzster on February 28, 2020, 09:25:04 PM
Quote from: Clampy on February 28, 2020, 09:19:26 PM
That's how some fans are I'm afraid. In their attempt to be proven right, they only post when it's not going well. (not the poster Ashtonvilla by the way).

When people post is their prerogative and makes no difference to whether their point is relevant or not. People say it was a miracle Smith getting us to the play offs but they don’t take into consideration it was a miracle because Smith did such a dismal job for a prolonged period before Derby at home. Yes I know Bruce hadn’t started well but Smith had long enough. Bearing in mind the resources at his disposal, it could be argued that we should have finished higher than 5th last season, not that it was some kind of major achievement

You're mental.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 29, 2020, 07:14:49 AM
Smith getting us up was not a major achievement?

I have been critical of Smith this season but to suggest that is just nuts.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 29, 2020, 08:46:21 AM
Quote from: Vill I An on February 29, 2020, 08:30:32 AM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on February 29, 2020, 12:38:27 AM
Quote from: Ketzster on February 28, 2020, 09:25:04 PM
Quote from: Clampy on February 28, 2020, 09:19:26 PM
That's how some fans are I'm afraid. In their attempt to be proven right, they only post when it's not going well. (not the poster Ashtonvilla by the way).

When people post is their prerogative and makes no difference to whether their point is relevant or not. People say it was a miracle Smith getting us to the play offs but they don’t take into consideration it was a miracle because Smith did such a dismal job for a prolonged period before Derby at home. Yes I know Bruce hadn’t started well but Smith had long enough. Bearing in mind the resources at his disposal, it could be argued that we should have finished higher than 5th last season, not that it was some kind of major achievement

You're mental.
And I find that you're insulting language insufferable.
Please dont using mental illness as am insult I'm sure the moderators and all on h and v don't support this sort of language
Be kind !!
Don’t be so daft.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Demitri_C on February 29, 2020, 09:00:45 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 29, 2020, 07:14:49 AM
Smith getting us up was not a major achievement?

I have been critical of Smith this season but to suggest that is just nuts.

Even me who is labellee one of the most netaive posters on here agree with you.

No one should down play what smith achieved last season. He saved the club from ruin. If we didnt go  up we could have seen a very bad situation unfold.

We wouldnt have mings for starters and grealish be gone.maybe mcginn.

Also even if we do go dow we have 3 years of parachute payments which we wouldnt have had this year had we stayed in the championship.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 29, 2020, 09:04:41 AM
When Smith took over we were 15th. It was congested, but we were 7 points off the bottom and 9 points off the Albion in 2nd, which was a defacto 10 points given their +14 goal difference to our 0.

I don't think anybody queuing in the rain on the ramp at Millwall was overly optimistic. The average points total to finish 6th over the past 5 seasons is 76.

At that stage we had to take around 1.8 points per game to finish 6th. We had been taking 1.2 points per game. 90 is the average to finish 2nd over the last 5 years. To achieve that we would have had to have taken 2.2 points per game.

At the time we didn't have a fit senior centre half at the club. Only Tunazebe was fit and he had partnered Hutton. Bree was playing at full back. Chester would come in and sacrifice his knee in the short term. It wasn't until February that we were able to play with two fit centre halves with the indifferent Elphick and the coming of Mings.

We were on 43 points from 30 games which means we had taken 1.86 points per game from Swansea in October to Reading on 2nd February. This was the accumulation identified and showed we were on target.

We then earned a good point at home to a very good Sheffield United, but followed up with two defeats to Brentford and the Albion, the latter of whom were 4th. The the Neil Diamond half time effect happened at Stoke.

At this point I should point out the following. The evidence suggests we had not been dismal. Yes, Wigan, Albion at home, Brentford away were poor performances. But the evidence showed;

a) by the time Smith took over "better than 5th" i.e. automatic promotion, at 2.2 points per game, was a statistical fantasy.
b) we were devoid a defence worthy of the name till February

There is no evidence to suggest Smith was doing a dismal job. 1.86 points per game by February suggests he was achieving a target for the Play Offs, despite the absence of a defence and the absence of Grealish since the Albion game at the start of December.

We needed him back, the same as we needed Mings, Hause to perform at centre half following Elphick being injured and Tuanzebe to return.

c) February yielded 3 points out of 15. Two results were good, Sheffield and Stoke, Brentford and Albion poor, while Reading needed context. A point away from home is never a bad result, but it might not be a good one if you don't back it up.


The March came, Grealish came back, the place lifted, Derby obliged with a very poor line up and Smith did something nobody has done since 1888.

He also achieved what Bruce, despite significantly more money, failed to do on 2 occasions. Coming 13th in 2016/17, Bruce proved how hard it can be to turn a lower mid-table side around.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on February 29, 2020, 09:11:28 AM
I'm not going to play down what Smith did either. Other people can though and they have. I'm happy with the job he has done overall but there is massive room for improvement and he'll probably admit that himself.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: richtheholtender on February 29, 2020, 09:20:38 AM
The fact is that if we can win tomorrow he becomes our most successful manager for 24 years.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: itmustbe_it is! on February 29, 2020, 09:53:40 AM
Quote from: Clampy on February 29, 2020, 09:11:28 AM
I'm not going to play down what Smith did either. Other people can though and they have. I'm happy with the job he has done overall but there is massive room for improvement and he'll probably admit that himself.

This is where I am too
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TelfordVilla on February 29, 2020, 11:20:43 AM
When you consider the quality of the job Dean Smith is doing, you need to bear in mind that each week we field 3 or 4 players out of necessity who are only valued at around £10million each and they are playing together in a side that have only been put together this season. No other side in the premier league are dealing with this set of circumstances. These players will make a far better team if they are still together in the premier league next season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on February 29, 2020, 11:30:03 AM
I was actually disappointed we didn't make more of a go at top 2 last season.

People forget we went on a very good run after a couple of early losses under DS. Smashed Derby and SHA, then that mad 5-5 v Forest and our annual stroll at the Riverside. We also played very well at the Hawthorns and should've won that. All still with the CB issues.

Will have to check back how many points we were off top 2 at that stage but I bet we weren't that far behind Sheffield United who were still 6/7 points off Leeds going into March themselves.

Of course we then lost Grealish, messed up v Leeds and then our form collapsed for two months.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AV82EC on February 29, 2020, 11:32:31 AM
Quote from: TelfordVilla on February 29, 2020, 11:20:43 AM
When you consider the quality of the job Dean Smith is doing, you need to bear in mind that each week we field 3 or 4 players out of necessity who are only valued at around £10million each and they are playing together in a side that have only been put together this season. No other side in the premier league are dealing with this set of circumstances. These players will make a far better team if they are still together in the premier league next season.

Supplemented with 3 more actual first team players costing £30m plus each.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 29, 2020, 04:21:04 PM
Quote from: richtheholtender on February 29, 2020, 09:20:38 AM
The fact is that if we can win tomorrow he becomes our most successful manager for 24 years.

And if we get battered tomorrow and relegated, he'll be worse than Sherwood.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on February 29, 2020, 04:29:29 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 29, 2020, 04:21:04 PM
Quote from: richtheholtender on February 29, 2020, 09:20:38 AM
The fact is that if we can win tomorrow he becomes our most successful manager for 24 years.

And if we get battered tomorrow and relegated, he'll be worse than Sherwood.

Fine lines.

Shows just how crap we've been for such a long time doesn't it?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 29, 2020, 04:34:41 PM
Yep.  And it shows no sign of letting up, unfortunately.  One day we'll appoint a good manager again.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on February 29, 2020, 04:45:26 PM
Quote from: TelfordVilla on February 29, 2020, 11:20:43 AM
These players will make a far better team if they are still together in the premier league next season.
Why will they automatically become far better next season?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on February 29, 2020, 06:00:26 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on February 29, 2020, 04:45:26 PM
Quote from: TelfordVilla on February 29, 2020, 11:20:43 AM
These players will make a far better team if they are still together in the premier league next season.
Why will they automatically become far better next season?

They won't, without better players around them.  Meaning that we will need to spend some good money on at least three or four good quality players. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Meanwood Villa on February 29, 2020, 06:09:51 PM
Last season he achieved his objective. If we stay up this season, which could well happen, he'll have achieved his objective. If we win tomorrow he'll have exceeded expectations. I think he's done a good job.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 29, 2020, 06:52:22 PM
Getting us into the relegation zone is not doing a good job.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan82 on February 29, 2020, 07:00:27 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 29, 2020, 06:52:22 PM
Getting us into the relegation zone is not doing a good job.

Hear hear. It's been pathetic. We have under performed all season. That new contract was a joke.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 29, 2020, 07:22:29 PM
He’s looks to me like a lower league manager grateful to be in a big job. Too naive, too nice, not a big enough character for this level.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Smithy on February 29, 2020, 07:25:17 PM
Quote from: Villan82 on February 29, 2020, 07:00:27 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 29, 2020, 06:52:22 PM
Getting us into the relegation zone is not doing a good job.

Hear hear. It's been pathetic. We have under performed all season. That new contract was a joke.

I genuinely think that new contract will have been related to promotion, rather than how well (or not) we were doing at the time it was signed. Might even have been contractual ("get us promoted and you get a new X-year contract).
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on February 29, 2020, 07:25:50 PM
Yep. It’s notable that the teams around us are getting results that are attributable to their manager. Dean can’t galvanise the team and his tactics cost us games. He’s fluffed his lines, simple as that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on February 29, 2020, 09:16:08 PM
Quote from: Smithy on February 29, 2020, 07:25:17 PM
Quote from: Villan82 on February 29, 2020, 07:00:27 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 29, 2020, 06:52:22 PM
Getting us into the relegation zone is not doing a good job.

Hear hear. It's been pathetic. We have under performed all season. That new contract was a joke.

I genuinely think that new contract will have been related to promotion, rather than how well (or not) we were doing at the time it was signed. Might even have been contractual ("get us promoted and you get a new X-year contract).

The timing of it makes this look overwhelmingly likely.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on March 01, 2020, 02:12:44 AM
As much as I love him and want him to succeed, I think him and his team are crap. Hate saying it but there's little room to support him. Paul Lambert with money? Never has so much been spent on so little. Take Jack out and we're a half decent Championship side.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Jon Crofts on March 01, 2020, 07:06:22 AM
Dean Smith is a poor mans Tim Sherwood, both tactically useless but at least Sherwood seemed able to motivate a team for a fight.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: GarTomas on March 01, 2020, 07:08:29 AM
11 games left and we are still well in it.
McGinn returning will be a massive boost for the team and the fans; his energy is midfield has been badly missed.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Jon Crofts on March 01, 2020, 07:10:25 AM
I’m sure he’ll make a difference, not sure Smith will though.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: GarTomas on March 01, 2020, 07:12:13 AM
Quote from: Jon Crofts on March 01, 2020, 07:10:25 AM
I’m sure he’ll make a difference, not sure Smith will though.

Not calling you out specifically; but for many Smith takes all the blame when we play badly but none of the credit when we do well?

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 01, 2020, 07:53:15 AM
Quote from: Risso on February 29, 2020, 07:22:29 PM
He’s looks to me like a lower league manager grateful to be in a big job. Too naive, too nice, not a big enough character for this level.
Inflexible and indecisive.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: JD on March 01, 2020, 08:10:52 AM
Give the Guy a fucking break. He is leading out his our our team at Wembley tomorrow. What a dream.
We are Aston Villa, the greatest team in the world and we will win. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on March 01, 2020, 08:18:27 AM
Precisely JD well said. UTV!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on March 01, 2020, 08:18:51 AM
Quote from: JD on March 01, 2020, 08:10:52 AM
Give the Guy a fucking break. He is leading out his our our team at Wembley tomorrow. What a dream.
We are Aston Villa, the greatest team in the world and we will win. 

Yep. Happy Cup Final Day everyone.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ez on March 01, 2020, 09:17:22 AM
To stop up from here Smith is going to have to do something radical. Carrying on as we are will be suicide.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on March 01, 2020, 09:20:07 AM
Smith's last stand - get annihilated today and it will destroy any vestige of confidence we have. We must put on a performance and if we are to lose, let's do so with passion and pride.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: itbrvilla on March 01, 2020, 09:22:40 AM
Quote from: GarTomas on March 01, 2020, 07:12:13 AM
Quote from: Jon Crofts on March 01, 2020, 07:10:25 AM
I’m sure he’ll make a difference, not sure Smith will though.

Not calling you out specifically; but for many Smith takes all the blame when we play badly but none of the credit when we do well?


We've barely played well.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: itbrvilla on March 01, 2020, 09:23:43 AM
Anyway... Everyone have a great day out and fingers crossed. Hopefully we win a trophy and end this awful drought!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on March 01, 2020, 10:57:20 AM
Quote from: mr underhill on March 01, 2020, 09:20:07 AM
Smith's last stand - get annihilated today and it will destroy any vestige of confidence we have. We must put on a performance and if we are to lose, let's do so with passion and pride.

If we lose today, and I sincerely hope that we pull of something really special, as it will completely restore faith and confidence that we can survive, it will be interesting to see what the reaction is. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Demitri_C on March 02, 2020, 06:45:29 AM
I think it’s safe to save we need to revert back to back four with engles and mings at cb. Looked more solid than the 5 At the back.

Going with nakamba as protection of the back four. Once McGinns back him sitting there with age on the wing Andy grealish in the hole behind samatta
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on March 02, 2020, 07:59:35 AM
got his team line up spot on yesterday imo

best players playing in their best positions with a few good options on the bench

add McGinn for Elmo when fit and that’s as strong as we can get to give it a go if staying up
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on March 02, 2020, 08:03:08 AM
I like that Dean is developing and picking a team and formation based on circumstance, his early season ‘let them worry about us’ was fine for a while but we now need a more horses for courses method and I think we are seeing it. Just wish the horses were of better quality.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on March 02, 2020, 08:14:33 AM
I know we're short on squad depth, but bringing like-for-like subs on does my head in. Trez is not an option, quality-wise, and Davis and Samatta would have been definitely worth a shout for the final 15 minutes.
The interesting takeaway from yesterday is whether Smith can bottle the energy we showed for our remaining league games: we can score goals, and yesterday we showed we can defend. So, time to get it together!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mortimer's Bear on March 02, 2020, 08:22:13 AM
For the first time in a long time I actually thought we defended well yesterday.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on March 02, 2020, 09:06:20 AM
yet still conceeded too many goals to win. Mings especially is a very good player, but he's the beating heart of a porous defense that may well cost us our PL place.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AV82EC on March 02, 2020, 09:07:40 AM
Quote from: Mortimer's Bear on March 02, 2020, 08:22:13 AM
For the first time in a long time I actually thought we defended well yesterday.

Yep superb shape and discipline, got undone a few times with the cross field switch ball which Citeh can play with so much quality but overall very pleased and gives us something to build on.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Luke8 on March 02, 2020, 09:15:08 AM
Quote from: Mortimer's Bear on March 02, 2020, 08:22:13 AM
For the first time in a long time I actually thought we defended well yesterday.

Agreed. Thought we were the most secure and compact that we have been probably all season, especially when you take the quality of the opposition into account. The switch of play to Foden caused us some problems in the first half but to Dean and the teams credit they adjusted and  dealt with it much better in the second.

Was a shame that we still have situations like Guilbert on Rodri at corners. Little decisions that make a big difference.  I supposed that  we haven’t really got that much physicality as a team so maybe something where we don’t have many alternatives currently.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Demitri_C on March 02, 2020, 09:20:25 AM
My concern is why we cant be organised like that in the big league games like Southampton is a mystery.

I think the 5 at the back must be the reason. Engels and mings at the back for me konsa as backup
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on March 02, 2020, 09:21:08 AM
What was Tyrone doing for the corner they scored from though?  Wasn't marking anybody, and looked like a headless chicken.

Anyway then Dean, now that's out of the way, time to make sure we stay up, starting at Leicester next week.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on March 02, 2020, 09:21:26 AM
Quote from: Mortimer's Bear on March 02, 2020, 08:22:13 AM
For the first time in a long time I actually thought we defended well yesterday.

I think on a whole you are correct but we still conceeded 2 horrible goals.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on March 02, 2020, 09:29:21 AM
Quote from: LukeJames on March 02, 2020, 09:21:26 AM
Quote from: Mortimer's Bear on March 02, 2020, 08:22:13 AM
For the first time in a long time I actually thought we defended well yesterday.

I think on a whole you are correct but we still conceeded 2 horrible goals.

And let them have 20+ shots.  It was better though, but still the midfield is the problem.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AV82EC on March 02, 2020, 09:32:19 AM
Quote from: Risso on March 02, 2020, 09:29:21 AM
Quote from: LukeJames on March 02, 2020, 09:21:26 AM
Quote from: Mortimer's Bear on March 02, 2020, 08:22:13 AM
For the first time in a long time I actually thought we defended well yesterday.

I think on a whole you are correct but we still conceeded 2 horrible goals.

And let them have 20+ shots.  It was better though, but still the midfield is the problem.

I’ve seen you make this comment a few times Risso, on the flip side how many times did Nyland have to make a save, once? Twice? I don’t think conceding that many shots is the problem you’re making it out to be.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on March 02, 2020, 09:35:06 AM
Quote from: AV82EC on March 02, 2020, 09:32:19 AM
Quote from: Risso on March 02, 2020, 09:29:21 AM
Quote from: LukeJames on March 02, 2020, 09:21:26 AM
Quote from: Mortimer's Bear on March 02, 2020, 08:22:13 AM
For the first time in a long time I actually thought we defended well yesterday.

I think on a whole you are correct but we still conceeded 2 horrible goals.

And let them have 20+ shots.  It was better though, but still the midfield is the problem.

I’ve seen you make this comment a few times Risso, on the flip side how many times did Nyland have to make a save, once? Twice? I don’t think conceding that many shots is the problem you’re making it out to be.

We've got the worst defensive record in the Premier League, of course it's a problem.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Demitri_C on March 02, 2020, 09:36:17 AM
Wonder if smiths tempted to make a move for Sturridge to end of season now he has terminated his contract
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Luke8 on March 02, 2020, 09:43:53 AM
Quote from: AV82EC on March 02, 2020, 09:32:19 AM
Quote from: Risso on March 02, 2020, 09:29:21 AM
Quote from: LukeJames on March 02, 2020, 09:21:26 AM
Quote from: Mortimer's Bear on March 02, 2020, 08:22:13 AM
For the first time in a long time I actually thought we defended well yesterday.

I think on a whole you are correct but we still conceeded 2 horrible goals.

And let them have 20+ shots.  It was better though, but still the midfield is the problem.

I’ve seen you make this comment a few times Risso, on the flip side how many times did Nyland have to make a save, once? Twice? I don’t think conceding that many shots is the problem you’re making it out to be.

To be fair to Risso, it has generally been a big issue for us, as it’s coupled to the the fact that we normally give too many big chances to teams. However, as you say, I don’t think that was really the case yesterday.

It also probably not the game to judge us defensively by the number of  shots conceded due to the strength of the opposition. They averaged 18 shots in the previous four games as well and that included games away at Real Madrid, Leicester and Tottenham.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on March 02, 2020, 09:43:54 AM
He's adapting. Formation changes, personnel changes.

We did well yesterday, and given their lineup and subs I'm not sure any other team could have done any better.

I also liked the team huddle after the game. There's a togetherness there that Smith is leading. Let's hope we can use this cup run and performance as a catalyst.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan82 on March 02, 2020, 09:58:09 AM
My criticisms of Smith aside, I think we have had rotten luck all season.

If we can battle like we did yesterday, and get more 'rub of the green', we have a chance.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: baddowvillans on March 02, 2020, 10:08:48 AM
Quote from: Mister E on March 02, 2020, 08:14:33 AM
I know we're short on squad depth, but bringing like-for-like subs on does my head in. Trez is not an option, quality-wise, and Davis and Samatta would have been definitely worth a shout for the final 15 minutes.

This was the disappointment me me also.  We saw the negative impact of taking Samatta off against Spurs the other week but at least then maybe he was thinking about the draw.  This was a game we needed to win so asking any player to keep a top defence occupied with no time to play in is risky.  Why not go on the offensive?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aldridgeboy on March 02, 2020, 10:14:56 AM
Quote from: Demitri_C on March 02, 2020, 09:36:17 AM
Wonder if smiths tempted to make a move for Sturridge to end of season now he has terminated his contract

Whilst I was against signing him in the window, as I thought we could get better ( and hopefully we have), I think it’s a no brainier now as we have nothing to lose. Pay him a small wage with a “ prove yourself for 2 months” attitude. Even if we bring him off the bench in situations like yesterday ?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on March 02, 2020, 10:16:51 AM
the team did better yesterday because he picked our best players

we are second from bottom so we all know every player is capable of mistakes and they all make them
the reason a back 4 is better than a back 5 is because it uses our best two central defenders,
i'm sorry but Konsa and Hause arnt good enough footballers for the prem,

also its to defensive minded, and Smith is apparently all about taking it to the opposition,
difficult against Man City when you haven't got the ball much but in the final run in we need to be all about winning

Engels, Guilbert, Target, Nakamba, Luiz, Samata, Wesley, Davis our the future of the club whether we stay up or go down

6 of them new to this league,
they are all good players but do make mistakes and have bad games sometimes awful ones, never the less they will improve unlike their replacements Taylor, Lansbury, Drinkwater, Hourahane, Hause, Elmo who are back ups at best,
Conor Elmo and Hause decent enough back ups, but back ups none the less

that starting line up yesterday with Mcginn in for Elmo is the best we got imo and good enough if our attitude is right to give me hope of staying up
maybe juggling Ghazi, Trez and Davis around up front to see what works best is worth having a look at too

i'm not into this horses for courses thing because we haven't got the quality and strength running through the squad like many other prem teams
we need to play our best players in their best positions as often as possible from now till the end of the season
and try and get something like a settled team together and give ourselves a chance of survival








Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 02, 2020, 10:20:27 AM
Agree with all of that John E.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: 260475 on March 02, 2020, 10:35:09 AM
Quote from: aldridgeboy on March 02, 2020, 10:14:56 AM
Quote from: Demitri_C on March 02, 2020, 09:36:17 AM
Wonder if smiths tempted to make a move for Sturridge to end of season now he has terminated his contract

Whilst I was against signing him in the window, as I thought we could get better ( and hopefully we have), I think it’s a no brainier now as we have nothing to lose. Pay him a small wage with a “ prove yourself for 2 months” attitude. Even if we bring him off the bench in situations like yesterday ?

I frequently read that players 'need a pre-season' to get up to speed, (or if like DD half a season if they were signed in January?), so I doubt that a frequently injured  >30 yo who hasn't played since who knows when is going to do it. Unless of course you put them on for the 90-95 minute scrambles in the box that we might need to work.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on March 02, 2020, 10:38:50 AM
On the shots thing I think the big difference is that 10 of their chances were from the edge of the box or further and we blocked 8 of them. Even when they got shots away we put so much pressure on that they only hit the target 4 times, that's a massive improvement on the last couple of games.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on March 02, 2020, 10:48:17 AM
Quote from: john e on March 02, 2020, 10:16:51 AM
the team did better yesterday because he picked our best players

we are second from bottom so we all know every player is capable of mistakes and they all make them
the reason a back 4 is better than a back 5 is because it uses our best two central defenders,
i'm sorry but Konsa and Hause arnt good enough footballers for the prem,

also its to defensive minded, and Smith is apparently all about taking it to the opposition,
difficult against Man City when you haven't got the ball much but in the final run in we need to be all about winning

Engels, Guilbert, Target, Nakamba, Luiz, Samata, Wesley, Davis our the future of the club whether we stay up or go down

6 of them new to this league,
they are all good players but do make mistakes and have bad games sometimes awful ones, never the less they will improve unlike their replacements Taylor, Lansbury, Drinkwater, Hourahane, Hause, Elmo who are back ups at best,
Conor Elmo and Hause decent enough back ups, but back ups none the less

that starting line up yesterday with Mcginn in for Elmo is the best we got imo and good enough if our attitude is right to give me hope of staying up
maybe juggling Ghazi, Trez and Davis around up front to see what works best is worth having a look at too

i'm not into this horses for courses thing because we haven't got the quality and strength running through the squad like many other prem teams
we need to play our best players in their best positions as often as possible from now till the end of the season
and try and get something like a settled team together and give ourselves a chance of survival

The back four exposes our full backs defensively though. Particularly Targett who was hopeless yesterday, in the first half particularly. AEG put in a bit more of a shift in the second half defensively that helped him. But this was a problem that was exposed by opponents earlier in the season hence the switch to a back five.

A harder working midfield would help but despite Elmo's best efforts yesterday that's not really a solution. McGinn coming back fully fit would hugely help.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on March 02, 2020, 10:51:12 AM
Dean can look at the score and think 'job done', we kept it respectable. Sammatta was incredibly isolated up front though, there was never anyone close to him to pick up anything he managed to hold up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Demitri_C on March 02, 2020, 10:53:58 AM
Quote from: aldridgeboy on March 02, 2020, 10:14:56 AM
Quote from: Demitri_C on March 02, 2020, 09:36:17 AM
Wonder if smiths tempted to make a move for Sturridge to end of season now he has terminated his contract

Whilst I was against signing him in the window, as I thought we could get better ( and hopefully we have), I think it’s a no brainier now as we have nothing to lose. Pay him a small wage with a “ prove yourself for 2 months” attitude. Even if we bring him off the bench in situations like yesterday ?

Apparently we cant sign him until summer even on a free as window is shut.

Strange for him to terminate the move if he cant sign for anyone
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Smithy on March 02, 2020, 10:55:04 AM
Quote from: paul_e on March 02, 2020, 10:38:50 AM
On the shots thing I think the big difference is that 10 of their chances were from the edge of the box or further and we blocked 8 of them. Even when they got shots away we put so much pressure on that they only hit the target 4 times, that's a massive improvement on the last couple of games.

Indeed. If you look at City's stats for their games going back to their win at VP, they average over 20 shots a game (the lowest is 19). Hell, they had more shots in their draw against palace than in the win against us! Man City take a lot of shots, that's what they do.  So when people are complaining we "let them" get 20-odd shots at goal, like we normally do, I think it's a bit unfair.  The fact that Nyland didn't have to really make any big saves is telling.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on March 02, 2020, 11:02:29 AM
Quote from: Smithy on March 02, 2020, 10:55:04 AM
Quote from: paul_e on March 02, 2020, 10:38:50 AM
On the shots thing I think the big difference is that 10 of their chances were from the edge of the box or further and we blocked 8 of them. Even when they got shots away we put so much pressure on that they only hit the target 4 times, that's a massive improvement on the last couple of games.

Indeed. If you look at City's stats for their games going back to their win at VP, they average over 20 shots a game (the lowest is 19). Hell, they had more shots in their draw against palace than in the win against us! Man City take a lot of shots, that's what they do.  So when people are complaining we "let them" get 20-odd shots at goal, like we normally do, I think it's a bit unfair.  The fact that Nyland didn't have to really make any big saves is telling.

He made a decent one towards the end from an header which was going in..
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on March 02, 2020, 11:03:48 AM
And the one with his feet from De Bruyne at the end
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on March 02, 2020, 11:22:33 AM
Which is both shots on target they didn't score from.

Aside from those I can't think of any that went wide which were worrying or where you'd say they should've done better.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on March 02, 2020, 11:26:38 AM
Quote from: LukeJames on March 02, 2020, 09:21:26 AM
Quote from: Mortimer's Bear on March 02, 2020, 08:22:13 AM
For the first time in a long time I actually thought we defended well yesterday.

I think on a whole you are correct but we still conceeded 2 horrible goals.
The killer crossfield pass to Foden was successful for Citeh mainly because of Targett's ball-watching; a habit that also cost us in other games this season (Spuds, for one, IIRC?). Yesterday, our 2 fullbacks seemed to be almost too tucked-in, leaving Foden and Sterling loads of space.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on March 02, 2020, 11:28:58 AM
Targett had a tough time in the first half particularly but it appeared to me that he was asked to play quite narrow, as such it gave Foden more time to receive and play the ball.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on March 02, 2020, 11:31:19 AM
I can't believe we actually paid what we did for Targett.  He's mostly fine, and an upgrade on Taylor, but as soon as he's up against any sort of pace or skill, he struggles badly.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on March 02, 2020, 11:44:28 AM
Quote from: Risso on March 02, 2020, 11:31:19 AM
I can't believe we actually paid what we did for Targett.  He's mostly fine, and an upgrade on Taylor, but as soon as he's up against any sort of pace or skill, he struggles badly.

What did we pay for him ?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on March 02, 2020, 11:56:34 AM
Reportedly, £14m plus a potential further £3m.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on March 02, 2020, 11:56:53 AM
It was reported as £14m with some additions taking it higher. About the going rate I'd say.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Smithy on March 02, 2020, 12:09:04 PM
Quote from: PeterWithe on March 02, 2020, 11:56:53 AM
It was reported as £14m with some additions taking it higher. About the going rate I'd say.

Of all the signings we made last summer, that's the one that felt a bit too high - given the position he plays, and the seeming lack of demand for him. Only Wes, Tyrone and Douggie cost more. That's not his fault, obviously, and I can't think of any other left-backs that moved last summer we could have had instead?  Plus he fits the club's new profile, young (23 at the time) and likely to improve further.

He's shown signs of being a pretty good wingback, but it does seem like he lacks the pace required against top wingers when playing in a 4.  His positioning and defensive play will hopefully improve as he matures, but he's unlikely to get any quicker, which is his main weakness.

Pacy fullbacks that can support the attack as well as he does come with a very hefty price tag.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Demitri_C on March 02, 2020, 12:11:37 PM
Quote from: Risso on March 02, 2020, 11:31:19 AM
I can't believe we actually paid what we did for Targett.  He's mostly fine, and an upgrade on Taylor, but as soon as he's up against any sort of pace or skill, he struggles badly.

Not sure id agree with that mart. I think targetts been one of our better players. He did struggle yesterday as did guilbert but that was mainky because citys attacking threat its awesome.

I actually think targett and guilbert did a lot better second half. If we go down targett will be very veey good at Championship level
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on March 02, 2020, 12:31:10 PM
I think he's looked pretty at home in the PL going forward and links well with Jack, I'd hope that sounder defending might come from coaching with time.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: phantom limb on March 02, 2020, 12:33:53 PM
I was surprised to read that we’d conceded 20 shots at goal as it didn’t feel like that at all during the game. We looked pretty solid most of the time and I think we should stick with this formation for the rest of the season, keep that back four and then put McGinn in midfield as soon as he’s fit again.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on March 02, 2020, 12:40:53 PM
Might be in the minority but I find the 20 shots stats thing to beat us with a bit unfair.

When we beat Norwich 5-1 earlier in the season they had 21 shots but 15 of those were just their FBs wildly shooting from 30 yards into the crowd.

I don't mind a strategy where main source of opposition shots are from distance. The odd one will find the top corner but most will fly harmlessly wild.

We could do the same by just telling Luiz or Hourihane to constantly shoot from 25 yards but the crowd will soon get annoyed when the fifth shot flies miles over.

Looking back at the Spurs game and they had 10 shots on target which is poor considering the good spells we had in that game. That's more worrying to me as teams with quick 1-2s or long balls can just bypass our midfield and defence too easily and get through on goal.

Reina had to save four one on ones in that and of course the penalty and winning goal also came from similar plays.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on March 02, 2020, 12:45:58 PM
Quote from: Risso on March 02, 2020, 11:56:34 AM
Reportedly, £14m plus a potential further £3m.

Ok thanks

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on March 02, 2020, 01:28:36 PM
He’s had some good games but overall he is an average footballer in my opinion. And the fee was ludicrous for a back up. When you consider Alphonso Davies cost Bayern £10m and he’s now probably worth 5 times that it shows buts prices for English PL players are. Terrible player recruitment by us.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on March 02, 2020, 03:44:42 PM
Those comments were said in the aftermath of an appalling match.  There was no way he could keep to them.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on March 02, 2020, 03:51:50 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on March 02, 2020, 01:28:36 PM
He’s had some good games but overall he is an average footballer in my opinion. And the fee was ludicrous for a back up. When you consider Alphonso Davies cost Bayern £10m and he’s now probably worth 5 times that it shows buts prices for English PL players are. Terrible player recruitment by us.

Disagree
it’s all opinions but I obviously rate him higher than you
think he’s shown some good qualities especially going forward and his interlinking with Grealish

he’s 24 and will be coming into his best years
I think there’s room for improvement and that will happen

I see him being far better than average for us
i know he’s had some poor games and made silly mistakes but I’m actually quite happy with him in the team

he offers more positives than negatives for me
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on March 02, 2020, 03:59:52 PM
I also disagree, he was, other than Heaton, the player with the most premier league experience when we signed him. I don't think getting another inexperienced player instead was an option.

Aside from that, like John, I quite like him. I think he's good going forward and has a good cross on him. He needs to learn to cope with fast wingers better but that's the only real weakness for me. The fee sounds a lot but it's probably about par for a premier league defender right now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on March 02, 2020, 04:29:34 PM
said it before but stats are a load of bollocks you can use them to prove anything you want
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AV82EC on March 02, 2020, 04:31:24 PM
Yep, correlation does not imply causation.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on March 02, 2020, 04:57:18 PM
I think there's a lot of redundant stats in there but there's a couple that we need to address.

Attempts/Goals conceded from set pieces needs to be better, part of the problem, in my opinion, is that we don't have anyone on the posts from corners but on top of that we seem to lose runners at the back post too easily, this is, in my opinion, the biggest criticism that should be aimed at Smith at the moment because this is 100% something you can work on in training.

The other one is shots conceded in the box. The stat isn't great because it doesn't account for the amount of pressure defenders are putting on the ball but even still we do allow too many chances in dangerous areas and need to address it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on March 02, 2020, 05:44:53 PM
As a wing back when he's allowed to get forward and attack he can be very effective. In a more tradtional 4, where he has to actually be a defensive full back he's proven to be an average defender. To me he's a little like Matt Lowton in that regard.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Demitri_C on March 02, 2020, 06:28:29 PM

(https://i.ibb.co/zhLHMVk/IMG-20200302-WA0008.jpg) (https://ibb.co/zhLHMVk)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 03, 2020, 12:03:10 AM
Quote from: john e on March 02, 2020, 04:29:34 PM
said it before but stats are a load of bollocks you can use them to prove anything you want

Well the stats I provided provide the relevant information about shots conceded.
It's very helpful to describe the situation.
Proves that their is a problem with conceding goals
And it's predictable that villa will keep conceding goals if we don't limit the amount of chances especially from inside the box.
Sure argue on other stats about other things by all means but those provided about the defence is clear evidence so there is no debate they are facts.and facts can't be debated
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on March 03, 2020, 12:44:10 AM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on March 02, 2020, 05:44:53 PM
As a wing back when he's allowed to get forward and attack he can be very effective. In a more tradtional 4, where he has to actually be a defensive full back he's proven to be an average defender. To me he's a little like Matt Lowton in that regard.

With his long sleeves he actually reminds me of Warnock. Good (at least in his first season) of always providing an overlap option but weak at the back post against any lofted cross/pass and really struggles against direct wingers.

Warnock had a poor game in 2010 final and he really declined after that to the point he was a liability most games (still not as bad as Shorey!)

Targett is just average and to me if we really want to improve next season if we're still in premier league he replaces Taylor as the back up option on the bench.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SheffieldVillain on March 03, 2020, 01:27:38 AM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on March 03, 2020, 12:44:10 AM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on March 02, 2020, 05:44:53 PM
As a wing back when he's allowed to get forward and attack he can be very effective. In a more tradtional 4, where he has to actually be a defensive full back he's proven to be an average defender. To me he's a little like Matt Lowton in that regard.

With his long sleeves he actually reminds me of Warnock. Good (at least in his first season) of always providing an overlap option but weak at the back post against any lofted cross/pass and really struggles against direct wingers.

Warnock had a poor game in 2010 final and he really declined after that to the point he was a liability most games (still not as bad as Shorey!)

Targett is just average and to me if we really want to improve next season if we're still in premier league he replaces Taylor as the back up option on the bench.

Completely agree with your last point. In fact, I'd say that this should be the bottom line with any signing we make this summer - that they should be better than someone in our current first team. No reserve cover signings, no signings with potential, quality over quantity.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on March 03, 2020, 08:46:41 AM
Quote from: Vill I An on March 03, 2020, 12:03:10 AM
Quote from: john e on March 02, 2020, 04:29:34 PM
said it before but stats are a load of bollocks you can use them to prove anything you want

Well the stats I provided provide the relevant information about shots conceded.
It's very helpful to describe the situation.
Proves that their is a problem with conceding goals
And it's predictable that villa will keep conceding goals if we don't limit the amount of chances especially from inside the box.
Sure argue on other stats about other things by all means but those provided about the defence is clear evidence so there is no debate they are facts.and facts can't be debated



Your stats are great obviously

It’s everybody else’s that’s shit
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on March 03, 2020, 08:47:34 AM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on March 02, 2020, 05:44:53 PM
As a wing back when he's allowed to get forward and attack he can be very effective. In a more tradtional 4, where he has to actually be a defensive full back he's proven to be an average defender. To me he's a little like Matt Lowton in that regard.
The killer is that he ball-watches when he should be tracking the overlapping player.
Also, I'm not sure he has always had great cover from those ahead of him for much of this season.

Agree that he'd make a great back-up for next season, if we can bring in someone else.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on March 03, 2020, 08:49:37 AM
Quote from: AV82EC on March 02, 2020, 04:31:24 PM
Yep, correlation does not imply causation.
For me, the critical stats are those that relate to further up the pitch: how much possession, how many tackles, how many completed passes: if we're doing well in these it means the ball is not getting into our defensive areas.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on March 03, 2020, 12:33:28 PM
Quote from: Mister E on March 03, 2020, 08:49:37 AM
Quote from: AV82EC on March 02, 2020, 04:31:24 PM
Yep, correlation does not imply causation.
For me, the critical stats are those that relate to further up the pitch: how much possession, how many tackles, how many completed passes: if we're doing well in these it means the ball is not getting into our defensive areas.



You don’t need a stat to tell you that though

You can see all that by just watching the game
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tomd2103 on March 03, 2020, 01:03:17 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on March 02, 2020, 05:44:53 PM
As a wing back when he's allowed to get forward and attack he can be very effective. In a more tradtional 4, where he has to actually be a defensive full back he's proven to be an average defender. To me he's a little like Matt Lowton in that regard.

Agree TV.  He has done OK at wing-back and has linked up well with Grealish at times.  He is, however, defensively suspect and this has been exposed a number of times when he has played at full-back. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on March 03, 2020, 03:02:33 PM
Quote from: john e on March 03, 2020, 12:33:28 PM
Quote from: Mister E on March 03, 2020, 08:49:37 AM
Quote from: AV82EC on March 02, 2020, 04:31:24 PM
Yep, correlation does not imply causation.
For me, the critical stats are those that relate to further up the pitch: how much possession, how many tackles, how many completed passes: if we're doing well in these it means the ball is not getting into our defensive areas.



You don’t need a stat to tell you that though

You can see all that by just watching the game

but the entire point of stats is to get an impression of the game without having to rewatch it. For a game or 2 it's not very valuable but over a run of 10+ games having to watch all of them and try to keep tracks of things is messy. If you can use a stat to highlight a potential problem and then watch footage of those incidents it's much easier to find the patterns of good and bad play so you can try to address them.

You don't have to like stats but trying to suggest they have no value is simply wrong.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on March 03, 2020, 03:15:49 PM
There is an old saying (respectfully) Paul, that you don't need to go down a coal mine to know that it is dark.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on March 03, 2020, 03:38:16 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on March 02, 2020, 06:28:29 PM

(https://i.ibb.co/zhLHMVk/IMG-20200302-WA0008.jpg) (https://ibb.co/zhLHMVk)

That won't include our disallowed goal at Palace I presume.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on March 03, 2020, 04:07:02 PM
Quote from: paul_e on March 03, 2020, 03:02:33 PM
Quote from: john e on March 03, 2020, 12:33:28 PM
Quote from: Mister E on March 03, 2020, 08:49:37 AM
Quote from: AV82EC on March 02, 2020, 04:31:24 PM
Yep, correlation does not imply causation.
For me, the critical stats are those that relate to further up the pitch: how much possession, how many tackles, how many completed passes: if we're doing well in these it means the ball is not getting into our defensive areas.



You don’t need a stat to tell you that though

You can see all that by just watching the game

but the entire point of stats is to get an impression of the game without having to rewatch it. For a game or 2 it's not very valuable but over a run of 10+ games having to watch all of them and try to keep tracks of things is messy. If you can use a stat to highlight a potential problem and then watch footage of those incidents it's much easier to find the patterns of good and bad play so you can try to address them.

You don't have to like stats but trying to suggest they have no value is simply wrong.


I know it’s wrong

But I’m going to keep saying it anyway
because statistically it will piss of 54% of you
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on March 03, 2020, 04:49:58 PM
It won't piss me off.  I respect all Villa fans.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on March 03, 2020, 04:53:50 PM
Quote from: brian green on March 03, 2020, 03:15:49 PM
There is an old saying (respectfully) Paul, that you don't need to go down a coal mine to know that it is dark.

Indeed not, in much the same way you don't need statistics to watch a single game of football.

However if you were trying to work out the most efficient way to light a coal mine having statistics about the mine, the lights, the cabling, etc is a lot better than walking through and dropping torches every now and then.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Archbishop Herbert Cockthrottle on March 04, 2020, 08:06:42 AM
Quote from: paul_e on March 03, 2020, 04:53:50 PM
Quote from: brian green on March 03, 2020, 03:15:49 PM
There is an old saying (respectfully) Paul, that you don't need to go down a coal mine to know that it is dark.

Indeed not, in much the same way you don't need statistics to watch a single game of football.

However if you were trying to work out the most efficient way to light a coal mine having statistics about the mine, the lights, the cabling, etc is a lot better than walking through and dropping torches every now and then.

The miner with a torch can see but the miner with the canary survives.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on March 04, 2020, 09:02:55 AM
I believe in the concept of "group brain".  Basically human survival depends on human intelligence being able to "snap shot" threats.  There are signs all around us all the time that are shorthand for imminent events.  The classic example is new born babies reacting to cartoon smiley/scarey faces.

To put it into football context, long, long ago we were teetering on the brink of relegation at the end of a season.  We were clinging on to a precious point  in the last minutes of a game.  The ball was hoofed long and high towards our Holte End penalty box.  The ball seemed suspended in the air,  Nigel Sims was stranded, only Jimmy Dugdale stood on our goal line.

Nobody in the Holte knew or cared about statistics but what every one of us knew was that Jimmy only had one foot, his right one.  As the ball fell out of the sky to his feet we just knew if it fell to his right we were safe.  It fell to his left and finished in the net.  These days there would be numbers to show how right sided Jimmy was.  We did not need the numbers then.  We just knew.  Group brain at work.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on March 04, 2020, 01:03:42 PM
Quote from: brian green on March 04, 2020, 09:02:55 AM
I believe in the concept of "group brain".  Basically human survival depends on human intelligence being able to "snap shot" threats.  There are signs all around us all the time that are shorthand for imminent events.  The classic example is new born babies reacting to cartoon smiley/scarey faces.

To put it into football context, long, long ago we were teetering on the brink of relegation at the end of a season.  We were clinging on to a precious point  in the last minutes of a game.  The ball was hoofed long and high towards our Holte End penalty box.  The ball seemed suspended in the air,  Nigel Sims was stranded, only Jimmy Dugdale stood on our goal line.

Nobody in the Holte knew or cared about statistics but what every one of us knew was that Jimmy only had one foot, his right one.  As the ball fell out of the sky to his feet we just knew if it fell to his right we were safe.  It fell to his left and finished in the net.  These days there would be numbers to show how right sided Jimmy was.  We did not need the numbers then.  We just knew.  Group brain at work.

Statistics don't change any of that though and they in no way replace it. For a current example I don't need statistics to prove that Taylor can't kick a moving ball, I've seen him stop, take a step back and then try to cross far too many times to not see it as a massive weakness in his game.

However that also doesn't mean that stats aren't useful. If I saw a stat (that I'm going to make up) that showed Taylor crosses with his 3rd or 4th touch 90% of the time I'd get a similar impression and I'd expect to see him play the way he does.

Stats will never be better than watching games but if you can't watch (or re-watch) every game then they are a useful way of summarising it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on March 04, 2020, 01:32:59 PM
I agree with you totally Paul.   I find, as my ability to absorb information declines, to use shortcuts to cognitive awareness helps.

Thus

Me)  Who has got the ball?
My Son)  Cafu
Me)  Let's see if we can catch it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 08, 2020, 11:52:09 PM
Dean Smith gathered the villa squad together on the pitch after that league cup final loss and Guilbert is quoted as saying:
"The gaffer said in the huddle, 'Stay together, win or lose. If we win, we stay in the Premier League. It's a question of mentality.'

There are many good things about Smith and this was just class act getting the players in a group and keeping their spirits up.
I think his own mentality is very strong and he is hoping the players can also take that .
Deano never stops encouraging and there's not for one second he won't do everything he can to keep the club we all love up in premier league.
In Smith we trust !
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: itbrvilla on March 09, 2020, 09:32:07 PM
Sack him to give us a fighting chance at least! WTF are the board playing at? Surely they've seen the same performances as us?!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan82 on March 09, 2020, 09:34:54 PM
Purslow- do you think the shit we have watched/endured since December is acceptable?

If you do, then you also need the sack.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 09, 2020, 09:39:49 PM
Thanks for last season Dean, but far too often we’ve been badly coached and way way below the required standard. Time for a change, because sadly there’s no sign of any sort of improvement.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 09, 2020, 09:41:59 PM
They had the chance After Southampton and Watford.
They should have acted then, now it’s too late.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: frank black on March 09, 2020, 09:43:09 PM
So who we getting in to save our bacon?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 09, 2020, 09:45:09 PM
I've stuck up for him but wouldn't give a shit if him, Appleyard and all the coaches were binned tonight. To still be making the same mistakes in game 28 that you were making in first game is fucking scandalous.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Richard on March 09, 2020, 09:46:06 PM
Yep Smith and Kelly are 2 championship coaches at best plus an inexperienced guy in Terry. None of them seem to have any tactical nous.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Monty on March 09, 2020, 09:46:31 PM
Ultimately, I'm afraid that the postmortem of this season will say that Dean, while a decent manager and obviously good bloke, just isn't up to this level. Without Grealish we'll need someone really capable of getting the best out of the team as a collective, and I'm afraid that Dean has never been that man.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on March 09, 2020, 09:47:49 PM
Said a while ago the kindest, best thing was for him to leave in January with his head held high. Now he’s in danger of becoming just another piss taker on a lucrative contract, who’s completely undone his own good work. In doing the right thing I don’t think we did the right thing at all.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Jon Crofts on March 09, 2020, 09:47:50 PM
Has to go. Cannot be allowed to be here next season, get someone in now who may keep us up or keep us afloat in that cesspool division.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on March 09, 2020, 09:48:06 PM
Bye Dean. If you're not pushed, please jump. It was a lovely narrative while it lasted but you're failing, and badly, and you'll sink us without a fight if you stay.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on March 09, 2020, 09:50:00 PM
Fuck off Smith you useless twat, and when you’ve fucked off, fuck off some more.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan82 on March 09, 2020, 09:50:21 PM
All the goodwill I had for him has been seeping away.

What was the point in going up to come back down. Worse still risking losing Jack Grealish to keep Smith on is fucking criminal.What the actual fuck were they thinking? Grealish is the best thing to happen us in at least 15 years if not longer. Staying up was paramount, absolutely paramount.

Purslow can get lost too.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: richrunner on March 09, 2020, 09:51:44 PM
That stupid hoarding on the side of the north stand was one hell of a bad omen, eh? Talk about hubris.

Hopefully it gets taken down soon.

You could write a book about Dean Smith's pathetic season as an out-of-depth Premier League manager, he really channelled his inner Phil Brown last week at wembley, I see it worked wonders tonight
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on March 09, 2020, 09:52:53 PM
I guarantee when we finally get rid, he will never manage in the Premier League again. Miles out of his depth.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: itbrvilla on March 09, 2020, 09:53:18 PM
Quote from: Villan82 on March 09, 2020, 09:50:21 PM
What was the point in going up to come back down. Worse still risking losing Jack Grealish to keep Smith on is trucking criminal.
Fucking negligence.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on March 09, 2020, 09:53:40 PM
I don’t give a fuck about any kind of big plan. Unless that plan includes firing Dean Smith in the next 24 hours. Fucking abysmal. Thank you for last season. But it’s time to go.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Demitri_C on March 09, 2020, 09:55:21 PM
Anyone absolutely anyone want to defend him??

Thanks for the memories but he should be sacked tonight
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: richtheholtender on March 09, 2020, 10:00:20 PM
Can’t defend him anymore. This constant waiting for it to get worse before changing and he’s inability to make tactical decision to effect games especially against 10 men has cost him in the end. Good 18 months or so but we need a hero galvanise us now. Inject something new.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: curiousorange on March 09, 2020, 10:00:56 PM
That'll do then, Deano.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: colin69 on March 09, 2020, 10:02:48 PM
The whole coaching set up is bollocks. They all need to go tonight. Even if Smith stays and somehow got us up next season, he cannot manage at this level. He stands there doing fuck all!!!!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on March 09, 2020, 10:04:53 PM
His tactics make Lambert and Sherwood look like mad geniuses.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on March 09, 2020, 10:06:34 PM
Start brightly
Press self destruct button
Fall apart
Half time - no changes
No change to shape or formation
Keep doing same thing that hasn't worked at all this season, let alone this match
Wait far too long, make ineffective sub once game is already over

*repeat*
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on March 09, 2020, 10:09:48 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on March 09, 2020, 10:04:53 PM
His tactics make Lambert and Sherwood look like mad geniuses.

I disagree.

But only because that would imply Smith has tactics, but he doesn't. If he did, we'd be able to discern some sort of shape or intention in the way we play, but there never is any.

It's just 11 half-arsed idiots ambling around the pitch for 90 minutes counting down the games until they can fuck off on their tacky holidays in Dubai.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Uknowthescore on March 09, 2020, 10:10:56 PM
Has any other club got rid of their manager this late in the season and has it worked. Surely it’s worth a try, smith looks clueless
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on March 09, 2020, 10:11:23 PM
Whether he remains in post or we get a new manager for the rest of the season I think is largely irrelevant. We look doomed.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on March 09, 2020, 10:11:54 PM
Traps though, Paulie...... and the setting of them.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john2710 on March 09, 2020, 10:12:28 PM
The away performances have been consistently appalling & getting worse by the week.

Dean's been given a squad that's basically not up to the job & he's managing to get less out of them.

He should have gone after Watford.... but I fear it's too late now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: stubbsyandy on March 09, 2020, 10:13:18 PM
Nice bloke, Villa through and through yes; capable, inspirational, good enough? No
Sorry Dean. If you really love our club, do the decent thing.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: passport1 on March 09, 2020, 10:16:20 PM
The sooner I we the back of him & his vagrant  mate the better. The mascot  probably makes a more useful  contribution .
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: wince on March 09, 2020, 10:16:22 PM
Time to go dean and take terry with you.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: curiousorange on March 09, 2020, 10:21:15 PM
Smith's sacking is like one of his substitutions - should have been made halfway through but now will happen far too late in the game to be effective.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: andyh on March 09, 2020, 10:22:20 PM
And the bibs and balls bloke.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The_ads on March 09, 2020, 10:24:05 PM
Quote from: Risso on March 09, 2020, 09:50:00 PM
Fuck off Smith you useless twat, and when you’ve fucked off, fuck off some more.


For all the failings he deserves none of that abuse. You really can be a nasty piece of work at times.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 09, 2020, 10:29:08 PM
It’s time to go. It’s not even getting relegated. Norwich will be relegated, but they’re a side who play well and compete most weeks. Dean has to go because we don’t compete and we’re getting worse. There is no sense of sustained improvement or even stability. It’s utterly unacceptable week in and week out.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: stubbsyandy on March 09, 2020, 10:33:04 PM
Yep
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: curiousorange on March 09, 2020, 10:34:35 PM
I know some people are pointing to Burnley and Dyche as a reason to stick with Smith through relegation and a possible journey back. But the difference is that Dyche made Burnley a decentish proposition even as they were going down and probably identified players who would augment those who were coming back along for the ride. Does anybody have any reason to suppose Dean Smith will provide the same?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ez on March 09, 2020, 10:44:23 PM
Like it or not I think the owners have made it clear he's got immunity this season whatever happens.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on March 09, 2020, 10:48:45 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on March 09, 2020, 10:29:08 PM
It’s time to go. It’s not even getting relegated. Norwich will be relegated, but they’re a side who play well and compete most weeks. Dean has to go because we don’t compete and we’re getting worse. There is no sense of sustained improvement or even stability. It’s utterly unacceptable week in and week out.

Agreed, I think Norwich have more reason to feel proud of their efforts this season than us. I reckon they’ll catch us up and we’ll go down deservedly rock bottom.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on March 09, 2020, 10:49:37 PM
Quote from: ez on March 09, 2020, 10:44:23 PM
Like it or not I think the owners have made it clear he's got immunity this season whatever happens.
That in itself is a poor decision.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 09, 2020, 10:50:59 PM
You do not reward failure unless you want more failure.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on March 09, 2020, 10:51:36 PM
Why do we always get managers who are incurably stubborn?  One after another we pay fortunes for managers totally devoid of flexibility or vision or imagination or creativity.  When other clubs recruit managers they choose peach melba or crepes Suzette or strawberries and cream.  We get managerial suet pudding, roly poly, spotted dick or stewed prunes.  After boiled cabbage for main course.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KevinGage on March 09, 2020, 10:53:24 PM
Quote from: curiousorange on March 09, 2020, 10:34:35 PM
I know some people are pointing to Burnley and Dyche as a reason to stick with Smith through relegation and a possible journey back. But the difference is that Dyche made Burnley a decentish proposition

I initially read that as a dentistish proposition.  Which is also accurate.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: DB on March 09, 2020, 10:55:21 PM
He doesn't have the know how to improve, change or get a performance of note. Hopefully he will realise he cannot go any further and walk for the club he loves.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on March 09, 2020, 10:56:05 PM
Quote from: Vill I An on March 09, 2020, 10:53:00 PM
Anyone have his post match comments to hand ?!
I could not sit thru a TV spectacular of analysis from Sven and Carra but would like to hear or read any soundbites or insights to how he saw the game.


Judging by the bemused, slightly glazed over look he appeared to have whenever the camera cut to him on the sideline, I'd say 'blurrily'.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: phantom limb on March 09, 2020, 10:56:11 PM
I’d give him a chance to get us back up next season. Of course he has his faults, and he has talked some bollocks after games at times but I feel our major problem has been the gamble of chucking in a load of inexperienced players and hoping that things worked out. Some key injuries haven’t helped either, and here we are.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ez on March 09, 2020, 10:58:24 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on March 09, 2020, 10:49:37 PM
Quote from: ez on March 09, 2020, 10:44:23 PM
Like it or not I think the owners have made it clear he's got immunity this season whatever happens.
That in itself is a poor decision.

It is, and a very strange one. They were quick enough to bin Steve Bruce.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on March 09, 2020, 10:59:39 PM
They gave him a second chance after losing to Fulham.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 09, 2020, 10:59:52 PM
Quote from: phantom limb on March 09, 2020, 10:56:11 PM
I’d give him a chance to get us back up next season. Of course he has his faults, and he has talked some bollocks after games at times but I feel our major problem has been the gamble of chucking in a load of inexperienced players and hoping that things worked out. Some key injuries haven’t helped either, and here we are.
Madness
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on March 09, 2020, 11:01:24 PM
Quote from: Vill I An on March 09, 2020, 10:53:00 PM
Anyone have his post match comments to hand ?!
I could not sit thru a TV spectacular of analysis from Sven and Carra but would like to hear or read any soundbites or insights to how he saw the game.

Usual crap about individual errors.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on March 09, 2020, 11:08:42 PM
Dean Smith trotting out his shtick about "individual errors"  brings to mind Steve Coogan's swimming pool attendant.  The defence that only one or two people drowned.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on March 09, 2020, 11:11:24 PM
I have always been, and remain, pro-Smith but he can have no complaints if he's out on his ear tomorrow.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on March 09, 2020, 11:13:18 PM
Quote from: phantom limb on March 09, 2020, 10:56:11 PM
I’d give him a chance to get us back up next season. Of course he has his faults, and he has talked some bollocks after games at times but I feel our major problem has been the gamble of chucking in a load of inexperienced players and hoping that things worked out. Some key injuries haven’t helped either, and here we are.

A small fortune down the drain, 19th in the league, 17 losses out of 28 games, the worst defence in the top flight, and a goal difference of -22.

And you want to keep this man in the hopes he might get us back up again?

They don't seem interested in busting a gut for him, this lot, and since most of them are his signings, that tells me he needs to go, ASAP.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on March 09, 2020, 11:13:39 PM
Quote from: themossman on March 09, 2020, 11:01:24 PM
Quote from: Vill I An on March 09, 2020, 10:53:00 PM
Anyone have his post match comments to hand ?!
I could not sit thru a TV spectacular of analysis from Sven and Carra but would like to hear or read any soundbites or insights to how he saw the game.

Usual crap about individual errors.

As if they're nothing to do with him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Flin5tone on March 09, 2020, 11:14:14 PM
All the Teams around us compete and will go down respectfully

Dean has to go but fear he won't, Grealish got us up not smith.

He's managed Walsall and Brentford and been bang average, never finished in play offs with Brentford just fuck him off
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on March 09, 2020, 11:17:22 PM
Quote from: brian green on March 09, 2020, 10:51:36 PM
Why do we always get managers who are incurably stubborn?  One after another we pay fortunes for managers totally devoid of flexibility or vision or imagination or creativity.  When other clubs recruit managers they choose peach melba or crepes Suzette or strawberries and cream.  We get managerial suet pudding, roly poly, spotted dick or stewed prunes.  After boiled cabbage for main course.

Yuck!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: phantom limb on March 09, 2020, 11:22:58 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on March 09, 2020, 11:13:18 PM
Quote from: phantom limb on March 09, 2020, 10:56:11 PM
I’d give him a chance to get us back up next season. Of course he has his faults, and he has talked some bollocks after games at times but I feel our major problem has been the gamble of chucking in a load of inexperienced players and hoping that things worked out. Some key injuries haven’t helped either, and here we are.

A small fortune down the drain, 19th in the league, 17 losses out of 28 games, the worst defence in the top flight, and a goal difference of -22.

And you want to keep this man in the hopes he might get us back up again?

They don't seem interested in busting a gut for him, this lot, and since most of them are his signings, that tells me he needs to go, ASAP.

I agree, the players look mentally shot and disorganised. The lack of experience throughout has done for us unfortunately, it was always a gamble. The players also have to accept responsibility, far too many mistakes over the season have gifted away goals and dropped us points.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 09, 2020, 11:24:29 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on March 09, 2020, 10:56:05 PM
Quote from: Vill I An on March 09, 2020, 10:53:00 PM
Anyone have his post match comments to hand ?!
I could not sit thru a TV spectacular of analysis from Sven and Carra but would like to hear or read any soundbites or insights to how he saw the game.


Judging by the bemused, slightly glazed over look he appeared to have whenever the camera cut to him on the sideline, I'd say 'blurrily'.

He's hurting in sure.
But yes was a sorry sight seeing him standing there in pouring rain reaching for his water bottle and his facial expressions.
I think he's definitely more at home at Villa park and will hope Saturday he gets the Dr Jekyll from the Hyde performance tonight.
First 10 minutes fine but that was it and that has a lot to do with Smith.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on March 09, 2020, 11:25:33 PM
Reminds me of Lambert vs Norwich.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OzVilla on March 09, 2020, 11:26:48 PM
Smith isn’t going anywhere. They’ve made their decision to stick with him and that’s that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on March 09, 2020, 11:30:50 PM
Quote from: OzVilla on March 09, 2020, 11:26:48 PM
Smith isn’t going anywhere. They’ve made their decision to stick with him and that’s that.

More fool them.  It's their money I suppose!  If they want to piss it away, it's up to them.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on March 09, 2020, 11:31:28 PM
Quote from: OzVilla on March 09, 2020, 11:26:48 PM
Smith isn’t going anywhere. They’ve made their decision to stick with him and that’s that.

And they probably think that's some sort of show of strength but to me it's tantamount to giving up. Unforgivable to go down without a fight like we are.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: JJ-AV on March 09, 2020, 11:34:19 PM
He's not been good enough but the recruitment has been poor.

I think it's too late to sack him now, we don't have the squad for a pragmatist so I think we should stick with it and give him another go. There are 6 or 7 who would get away with their inadequacies at a lower level and continuity would be important.

The time to make a change was after Watford away, they didn't and he won at Burnley and was safe.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 09, 2020, 11:35:10 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on March 09, 2020, 11:31:28 PM
Quote from: OzVilla on March 09, 2020, 11:26:48 PM
Smith isn’t going anywhere. They’ve made their decision to stick with him and that’s that.

And they probably think that's some sort of show of strength but to me it's tantamount to giving up. Unforgivable to go down without a fight like we are.

I like this word tantamount I never heard it before !
I only know paramount ! And mason .

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: David_Nab on March 09, 2020, 11:36:49 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on March 09, 2020, 10:56:05 PM
Quote from: Vill I An on March 09, 2020, 10:53:00 PM
Anyone have his post match comments to hand ?!
I could not sit thru a TV spectacular of analysis from Sven and Carra but would like to hear or read any soundbites or insights to how he saw the game.


Judging by the bemused, slightly glazed over look he appeared to have whenever the camera cut to him on the sideline, I'd say 'blurrily'.

He felt we were in the game and 1 nil down and the pen killed us off ...not sure what game he was watching but other than the first 8 mins we didn't threaten them at all.Them only having one goal at the point of the pen doesn't make it a close game , it really wasn't
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan82 on March 09, 2020, 11:38:31 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on March 09, 2020, 11:31:28 PM
Quote from: OzVilla on March 09, 2020, 11:26:48 PM
Smith isn’t going anywhere. They’ve made their decision to stick with him and that’s that.

And they probably think that's some sort of show of strength but to me it's tantamount to giving up. Unforgivable to go down without a fight like we are.

Same here.

They aren't impressing me with that attitude. In fact, they are showing that they are another bunch of idiots.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 09, 2020, 11:43:42 PM
Quote from: Villan82 on March 09, 2020, 11:38:31 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on March 09, 2020, 11:31:28 PM
Quote from: OzVilla on March 09, 2020, 11:26:48 PM
Smith isn’t going anywhere. They’ve made their decision to stick with him and that’s that.

And they probably think that's some sort of show of strength but to me it's tantamount to giving up. Unforgivable to go down without a fight like we are.

Same here.

They aren't impressing me with that attitude. In fact, they are showing that they are another bunch of idiots.

Emperors New clothes
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on March 09, 2020, 11:55:49 PM
Quote from: curiousorange on March 09, 2020, 10:34:35 PM
I know some people are pointing to Burnley and Dyche as a reason to stick with Smith through relegation and a possible journey back. But the difference is that Dyche made Burnley a decentish proposition even as they were going down and probably identified players who would augment those who were coming back along for the ride. Does anybody have any reason to suppose Dean Smith will provide the same?

Burnley have some limited players, a lot actually when you look at their first eleven, but they are a tight cohesive unit and well capable of scrapping results against better teams.

I watched them at the weekend v Spurs and someone like Jack Cork in midfield would improve us immeasurably. Is he a world beater, absolutely not, but he knows how to hold his own in this division. We spent our budget in that area on two greenhorns at this level, both of whom had very limited pre seasons with us. Luiz in particular has very little adult football played at any level (we were completely played by Man City "rated by Pep" nonsense).

Apart from those two, we had Hourihane for who the step up was always going to be a challenge. Of course Henri Lansbury who was nowhere near good enough for us in the championship. In Jan, to fix this glaring hole we bring in a washed up or dried out Drinkwater to SOS..ffs
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on March 10, 2020, 12:04:12 AM
Dyke managed to get Burnley back up with a 13,000 capacity at Turf Moor. Since then they've qualified for Europe.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on March 10, 2020, 12:10:31 AM
He's talking the absolute shite of someone who has lost the plot totally.  "I thought we were well organised defensively, but we kept giving away free headers from set pieces."  THAT DOESN'T SOUND VERY WELL ORGANISED TO ME THEN!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on March 10, 2020, 12:13:24 AM
Can we assume the honeymoon is over?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on March 10, 2020, 01:02:50 AM
There shouldn't be a honeymoon anyway. I couldn't give a fuck if the manager is from Great Barr or the Faroe Islands, if he keeps churning out a team that play so open they concede 2 a game week in week out then they can fuck off.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OzVilla on March 10, 2020, 02:18:55 AM
That was a poor penalty decision against us imo but that in no way can detract from the utter shit show the rest of the game was.  He can hide behind the penalty decision all he likes , maybe to shield the players who knows, but we know better.  Supporters are not idiots. We should have been 2/3 down by then anyway and the lack of resolve was worrying. Even though the 4th goal was well worked but we were still statuesque.

I feel for him because he's out of his depth with players that really aren't good enough right now - plenty of promise and the makings of a decent Championship side but not a PL team that can compete, no where near.

He should have been potted post Watford away but once that passed the plan was always to see it through with Smith for the remainder of the season. We're going down.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on March 10, 2020, 04:44:22 AM
Quote from: Risso on March 10, 2020, 12:10:31 AM
He's talking the absolute shite of someone who has lost the plot totally.  "I thought we were well organised defensively, but we kept giving away free headers from set pieces."  THAT DOESN'T SOUND VERY WELL ORGANISED TO ME THEN!

All we need him to say now is that he thought we were excellent after again and that we need to go again. He’s fucking deluded. He can show he loves the club by resigning and giving us (his club) a fighting chance to stay up. But he won’t.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on March 10, 2020, 05:30:49 AM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on March 10, 2020, 04:44:22 AM
Quote from: Risso on March 10, 2020, 12:10:31 AM
He's talking the absolute shite of someone who has lost the plot totally.  "I thought we were well organised defensively, but we kept giving away free headers from set pieces."  THAT DOESN'T SOUND VERY WELL ORGANISED TO ME THEN!

All we need him to say now is that he thought we were excellent after again and that we need to go again. He’s fucking deluded. He can show he loves the club by resigning and giving us (his club) a fighting chance to stay up. But he won’t.

Spot on
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tony scott on March 10, 2020, 06:41:51 AM
This is the dilemma, who would you replace him with, and the club has stated his here long in spite of results
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on March 10, 2020, 06:48:32 AM
The day that Dean accepted Purslow’s advice to take on Terry as part of his coaching staff was the day he compromised himself as a pure football coach. A compromised Coach loses respect very quickly.  Now he’s is drifting aimlessly in a rudderless boat smashing from rock to rock with ultimate disaster around the corner. Feel for him but he has fucked up massively and we need to put him out of his misery. However I don’t trust our version of Swiss Tony that is Purslow to do anything  worthwhile for the club. We are fucked.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on March 10, 2020, 07:19:24 AM
Agree 100% aftab.  The old, old Villa curse of the club owners being stupefied into the belief that resistance to the decline of the club is futile.  The "steady as she goes" stiff upper lips on the bridge of the Titanic.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on March 10, 2020, 07:43:02 AM
He was grasping at straws in his BBC WM interview after the game last night. "Villa Park was always going to be important for us..." I was hoping the interviewer would reply "What about Covid-19 and the prospect of playing games behind closed doors?".
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on March 10, 2020, 08:06:36 AM
Picking up on Risso's point about Smith's selective critical faculties I made the point elsewhere that it is just like Steve Coogan's famous sketch as a swimming pool attendant defending his position by stressing that only one or two people had drowned in his pool.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on March 10, 2020, 08:14:44 AM
Quote from: David_Nab on March 09, 2020, 11:36:49 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on March 09, 2020, 10:56:05 PM
Quote from: Vill I An on March 09, 2020, 10:53:00 PM
Anyone have his post match comments to hand ?!
I could not sit thru a TV spectacular of analysis from Sven and Carra but would like to hear or read any soundbites or insights to how he saw the game.


Judging by the bemused, slightly glazed over look he appeared to have whenever the camera cut to him on the sideline, I'd say 'blurrily'.

He felt we were in the game and 1 nil down and the pen killed us off ...not sure what game he was watching but other than the first 8 mins we didn't threaten them at all.Them only having one goal at the point of the pen doesn't make it a close game , it really wasn't
Technically, he is right; at 1-0 we did have a cahnce to come back.
In reality, he is delufded if he beleives what he said.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 10, 2020, 09:00:25 AM
Thanks always interesting to hear about Smith views on how he saw the match.

I would add if Hourihane or Samatta connected with their efforts would have been a goal ahead inside 10 minutes or so.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on March 10, 2020, 09:20:23 AM
And they could have been 3-2 up inside 25 based on their chances from corners and that header they ought to have buried.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on March 10, 2020, 09:21:50 AM
Quote from: Ads on March 10, 2020, 09:20:23 AM
And they could have been 3-2 up inside 25 based on their chances from corners and that header they ought to have buried.

Agreed, they were first to every ball from a corner or free kick.  It really is back to the bad old Lambert days of Cornalties.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on March 10, 2020, 09:22:51 AM
We're just so staggeringly disorganised. There's no desire to alter it either and it's actually getting more chaotic.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on March 10, 2020, 10:09:02 AM
Quote from: Ads on March 10, 2020, 09:22:51 AM
We're just so staggeringly disorganised. There's no desire to alter it either and it's actually getting more chaotic.

There's only Mings on the pitch who seems capable of trying to organise. I did have Reina down for doing it too, but he's a hot-head too.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on March 10, 2020, 10:50:21 AM
That's the Mings who is the beating heart of the worst defence in the PL? He's looked fucking awful for a while - and I'm a fan of his.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Deano's Mullet on March 10, 2020, 10:52:24 AM
I think Mings has looked poor since Christmas/injury but  don't think our zonal marking has helped.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tomd2103 on March 10, 2020, 10:55:08 AM
Quote from: Vill I An on March 10, 2020, 09:00:25 AM
Thanks always interesting to hear about Smith views on how he saw the match.

I would add if Hourihane or Samatta connected with their efforts would have been a goal ahead inside 10 minutes or so.

Samatta's was a tough chance, if you can even call it a chance, as he was at full stretch.  Hourihane should have done a lot better, as to be fair he is normally good in those kind of positions. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Luke8 on March 10, 2020, 12:12:04 PM
Quote from: tomd2103 on March 10, 2020, 10:55:08 AM
Quote from: Vill I An on March 10, 2020, 09:00:25 AM
Thanks always interesting to hear about Smith views on how he saw the match.

I would add if Hourihane or Samatta connected with their efforts would have been a goal ahead inside 10 minutes or so.

Samatta's was a tough chance, if you can even call it a chance, as he was at full stretch.  Hourihane should have done a lot better, as to be fair he is normally good in those kind of positions. 

The first ten minutes were good. It was very much the eighty that followed that was the problem.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on March 10, 2020, 12:13:52 PM
Quote from: mr underhill on March 10, 2020, 10:50:21 AM
That's the Mings who is the beating heart of the worst defence in the PL? He's looked fucking awful for a while - and I'm a fan of his.

I don't think it's the defence's fault per se, our midfield gets overrun all the time and the defence are left to pick up the pieces.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KRS on March 10, 2020, 02:52:35 PM
Just watched his post match comments from last night. He’s officially lost the plot...completely deluded.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sirlordbaltimore on March 10, 2020, 03:12:58 PM


We're at the fucking crossroads again.

If Dean and his staff don't go we're 100% going down IMHO. Nothing is going right, and the players aren't responding to whatever they're being asked to do.

If we do replace them now, we may still go down, but we may also rally enough to stay up. Time to stick or gamble.

I know which i favour after last nights latest atrocity.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Luke8 on March 10, 2020, 03:17:07 PM
Quote from: Drummond on March 10, 2020, 12:13:52 PM
Quote from: mr underhill on March 10, 2020, 10:50:21 AM
That's the Mings who is the beating heart of the worst defence in the PL? He's looked fucking awful for a while - and I'm a fan of his.

I don't think it's the defence's fault per se, our midfield gets overrun all the time and the defence are left to pick up the pieces.

Agree, I don’t think you can pin in on a individual or even one area of the team. It’s stating the obviously, but we have issue across the whole team defensively - we don’t press well, players are too wide and therefore to far apart and don’t/can’t offer enough support, we have too many that are a bit too slow and we lack nous and physicality.

I do like Smith but he really needs to be doing more to address these problems and hide the deficiencies that the players have.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on March 10, 2020, 03:20:54 PM
Our midfield is so weak but even so our defence doesn't look organised at all.  For instance, it's not the midfield's fault that we're hopeless on corners. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 10, 2020, 03:24:15 PM
Quote from: tomd2103 on March 10, 2020, 10:55:08 AM
Quote from: Vill I An on March 10, 2020, 09:00:25 AM
Thanks always interesting to hear about Smith views on how he saw the match.

I would add if Hourihane or Samatta connected with their efforts would have been a goal ahead inside 10 minutes or so.

Samatta's was a tough chance, if you can even call it a chance, as he was at full stretch.  Hourihane should have done a lot better, as to be fair he is normally good in those kind of positions.

Match sharpness . Lack of . For me. Totally missed it with foot and hit this buttocks on the slide from what I could see

And I always think a chance like that has to be contextual on difficulties. He's a premier league striker so for me should be doing better and actually quite a decent chance.
For the every day lower non league or certainly observer who has far lesser ability it would be hard.

Same with El Ghazi header in cup final .
For me he needs to head that down and get that on target.
Lesser non professional would just be happy to make contact and get anywhere near the goal
These players are professional and need to improve techniques and temperance in
taking the chances .
8/10 times those 2 examples of chances would see Samatta or El Ghazi  at least make better connection , on target or maybe goals.

Too many 2/10 efforts going on.
Then we gift away goals at the other end.

Dean really has been unlucky
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: BoVillan esq on March 10, 2020, 03:26:54 PM
Thought I would log back on today to get the news that Smith had been relieved of his duties to the club and I would imagine it would be a  hell of a relief, staggered that he's still in charge and his backroom staff, no way can we go into the weekends game v Chelsea in this manner, we will get slaughtered, Smith is a Villa fan and for that he merits some Kudos but for goodness sake the board have to do something.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 10, 2020, 03:29:55 PM
Quote from: BoVillan esq on March 10, 2020, 03:26:54 PM
Thought I would log back on today to get the news that Smith had been relieved of his duties to the club and I would imagine it would be a  hell of a relief, staggered that he's still in charge and his backroom staff, no way can we go into the weekends game v Chelsea in this manner, we will get slaughtered, Smith is a Villa fan and for that he merits some Kudos but for goodness sake the board have to do something.
Hear your frustrations and you're certainly not alone though I don't personally agree.
However would you have JT in charge for remaining or some complete new manager ?
I think it would be even more of a task having any new coach/manager and that's another reason why stick with Smith.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: BoVillan esq on March 10, 2020, 03:59:56 PM
Quote from: Vill I An on March 10, 2020, 03:29:55 PM
Quote from: BoVillan esq on March 10, 2020, 03:26:54 PM
Thought I would log back on today to get the news that Smith had been relieved of his duties to the club and I would imagine it would be a  hell of a relief, staggered that he's still in charge and his backroom staff, no way can we go into the weekends game v Chelsea in this manner, we will get slaughtered, Smith is a Villa fan and for that he merits some Kudos but for goodness sake the board have to do something.
Hear your frustrations and you're certainly not alone though I don't personally agree.
However would you have JT in charge for remaining or some complete new manager ?
I think it would be even more of a task having any new coach/manager and that's another reason why stick with Smith.


Speaking to a friend earlier today, went to the game last night, said he had never seen a Villa team lacking in energy. passion, skill, even in the worst days when we last got relegated, last night was awful, the players couldn't give a flying ****, so, in short, we simply can't go on like that, at this point a new manager isn't ideal, but we have reached the stage where we have to do something, anything else is just gross negligence of a Premier League Club, Villa as it stand is going down, that's not being negative or doom laden, its stating the obvious, short of the league season being cancelled there is nothing going to stop that, so to answer your question, yes in my opinion, roll the dice, we may just get a manager that sparks a response from the team gets us a few wins, ignites some passion, might just do enough to help us survive, if not then we go down anyway, but we may at least give it our best shot.

Otherwise in a few days time, we'll all be on here again saying the same old stuff after the Chelsea game, hopeless.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 10, 2020, 04:07:07 PM
Villa Dean Smith and JT being discussed now on Talksport first subject on drive with Gough and Danny Kelly.
Taking calls now
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: BoVillan esq on March 10, 2020, 04:11:51 PM
Quote from: Vill I An on March 10, 2020, 04:07:07 PM
Villa Dean Smith and JT being discussed now on Talksport first subject on drive with Gough and Danny Kelly.
Taking calls now

Cheers
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on March 10, 2020, 04:23:42 PM
Quote from: Vill I An on March 10, 2020, 04:07:07 PM
Villa Dean Smith and JT being discussed now on Talksport first subject on drive with Gough and Danny Kelly.
Taking calls now

Thanks, I'll make sure I switch straight over to Radio 4 when I get in the car in about 5 minutes.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT on March 10, 2020, 06:33:58 PM
I heard someone say earlier that he should rip into the players and let them know that was unacceptable.

Well, he did that at Southampton two weeks ago, and that was their response.

I know Dean isn't covering himself in glory at the moment, but these players are like locusts. As soon as we're down, they'll be off quicker than a nuns first curry.

That's what fucks me off the most. We're not really in a relegation battle because we don't actually battle.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on March 10, 2020, 06:41:04 PM
If he's going to be sacked it will be after Saturday.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Richard E on March 10, 2020, 06:50:56 PM
Awesome to see how the post match huddle at Wembley produced such an inspirational performance last night.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Luke8 on March 10, 2020, 07:00:37 PM
Quote from: CT on March 10, 2020, 06:33:58 PM
I heard someone say earlier that he should rip into the players and let them know that was unacceptable.

Well, he did that at Southampton two weeks ago, and that was their response.


Technically the response was a fairly decent performance at Wembley.

I get the general point though. Just feel that the inconsistency of our performances is maddening.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Richard E on March 10, 2020, 07:03:38 PM
Let’s not overstate the performance at Wembley. We didn’t get the anticipated hammering but we were still comfortably beaten.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 10, 2020, 07:10:37 PM
Quote from: Luke8 on March 10, 2020, 07:00:37 PM
Quote from: CT on March 10, 2020, 06:33:58 PM
I heard someone say earlier that he should rip into the players and let them know that was unacceptable.

Well, he did that at Southampton two weeks ago, and that was their response.


Technically the response was a fairly decent performance at Wembley.

I get the general point though. Just feel that the inconsistency of our performances is maddening.

It’s more the consistency of being utter shite that’s maddening.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on March 10, 2020, 07:11:06 PM
We never for one moment looked like winning the Cup Final.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rigadon on March 10, 2020, 07:15:36 PM
Quote from: aj2k77 on March 10, 2020, 07:11:06 PM
We never for one moment looked like winning the Cup Final.

Indeed. We avoided a massive hiding, that is all.  Smith is a pretty much universally liked character, so I hope when (it must be when now and not if) he leaves it's with a bit of dignity and no 'Bolton moment' because he doesn't deserve that.  I'd say now is the last point changing the manager makes any sense while the season is still ongoing.  I wouldn't wait until after the Chelsea game, that would be like writing one of our 10 remaining chances of staying up off in my view. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: N'ZMAV on March 10, 2020, 07:25:54 PM
I think Dean Smith is out of his depth now - he has done a few decent things this season - but it's faded away into nothing.
I'll always be grateful for what he did last season. But, he's lost at this level. All so disappointing.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: spk on March 10, 2020, 07:32:29 PM
I've never wanted a Villa manager to succeed as much as Deano.So sad that he is struggling.Would I press the button now ? Just don't know.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on March 10, 2020, 08:14:50 PM
When he first arrived he was fresh and different, he played modern fast flowing attacking football

he has now morphed into every useless British manager we’ve had in the last 10 years
I just don’t get it

Norwich might well go down but at least the manager has  stuck to his football principles because he knows what they are
we’re all over the place with no idea what we are trying to do, just like the numpties who went before



Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: rougegorge on March 10, 2020, 08:15:24 PM
It's interesting how the posts on 'Smith Out' and 'Smith Confirmed' oscillate. It almost reflects the ambivalence towards him. Certainly none of the previous incumbents have been afforded as much leeway as him.

We all wanted him to succeed, but the blind faith shown over Christmas by many fans and the owners hasn't been rewarded.

Now the tide of opinion has finally turned, but there is still inertia and seemingly a prevailing view that we wouldn't get anyone better now.

We might not get anyone better as a long term solution now, but paradoxically we might well get someone who can keep us up, especially as there are still 10 games left.

Smith just isn't getting anything out of the team let alone imparting any effective tactics or organisation and will lose any popularity if he takes us down playing like this.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tony scott on March 10, 2020, 10:32:53 PM
Everybody’s sitting on their hands and hoping.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: andyh on March 10, 2020, 10:38:27 PM
Percy now reporting that Smith is ‘fighting for his job’ with the Chelsea game being the crux.

https://twitter.com/avfctranstweet/status/1237507379597623298?s=21
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villa75 on March 10, 2020, 10:39:23 PM
If I remember correctly, a poll on here resulted in around 98% of respondents voting that we would stay up. I seem to remember this poll taking place after we had spent £150,000,000 on new recruits. Recruits that the manager seemed happy with.

Being part of that 98%, I would want Smith sacked if he fails to keep us up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on March 10, 2020, 10:41:38 PM
Quote from: andyh on March 10, 2020, 10:38:27 PM
Percy now reporting that Smith is ‘fighting for his job’ with the Chelsea game being the crux.

https://twitter.com/avfctranstweet/status/1237507379597623298?s=21

Just posted the same in the Smith out thread Andy. It’s not exactly a stretch to make that assessment for any member of the media but Percy is generally pretty close to a lot coming out of Villa. I’m sure the club will just hate to fire him but in the end the cost (not just financial) of relegation will be incredible and something that has to be corrected while there is time to do so.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brassneck on March 10, 2020, 10:46:13 PM
It makes sense.

The results have been appalling for some time.

There’s a 2 week break after Chelsea.  With only 5 days before the game, it would have been difficult to do it this week.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on March 10, 2020, 10:47:06 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on March 10, 2020, 10:41:38 PM
Quote from: andyh on March 10, 2020, 10:38:27 PM
Percy now reporting that Smith is ‘fighting for his job’ with the Chelsea game being the crux.

https://twitter.com/avfctranstweet/status/1237507379597623298?s=21

Just posted the same in the Smith out thread Andy. It’s not exactly a stretch to make that assessment for any member of the media but Percy is generally pretty close to a lot coming out of Villa. I’m sure the club will just hate to fire him but in the end the cost (not just financial) of relegation will be incredible and something that has to be corrected while there is time to do so.

General rule of thumb = if John Percy says it, it is almost certainly true.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Luke8 on March 10, 2020, 10:57:02 PM
Not doubting the validity of the report but I always find the one/two games to save his job idea an odd concept. Say we win on Saturday (unlikely a scenario as it may be, I know) he is then good enough to keep his job? Seems a short sighted way of looking at things whatever your feelings on the manager.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on March 10, 2020, 10:58:31 PM
Quote from: Luke8 on March 10, 2020, 10:57:02 PM
Not doubting the validity of the report but I always find the one/two games to save his job idea an odd concept. Say we win on Saturday (unlikely a scenario as it may be, I know) he is then good enough to keep his job? Seems a short sighted way of looking at things whatever your feelings on the manager.

I guess there has to be a tipping point, a last chance saloon in these things.

If he gets us three points against Chelsea, I'd give him more time.

He won't, though.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on March 10, 2020, 11:02:26 PM
There is a big difference between winning a single game, and then sustaining that level of performance.  We do not have the players to pull it off. SJM coming back is a huge boost but we lack the physicality in the middle of the park and are easy to play against because we cannot avoid making simple mistakes.  If other teams are patient enough, they press us and wait for the mistakes to come.  Not signing a tough central midfielder will come back to haunt Smith.  I am absolutely stunned that they signed Drinkwater, when they needed an N'didi.  Terrible decision.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on March 10, 2020, 11:18:36 PM
Quote from: Vill I An on March 10, 2020, 11:17:22 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on March 10, 2020, 10:47:06 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on March 10, 2020, 10:41:38 PM
Quote from: andyh on March 10, 2020, 10:38:27 PM
Percy now reporting that Smith is ‘fighting for his job’ with the Chelsea game being the crux.

https://twitter.com/avfctranstweet/status/1237507379597623298?s=21

Just posted the same in the Smith out thread Andy. It’s not exactly a stretch to make that assessment for any member of the media but Percy is generally pretty close to a lot coming out of Villa. I’m sure the club will just hate to fire him but in the end the cost (not just financial) of relegation will be incredible and something that has to be corrected while there is time to do so.

General rule of thumb = if John Percy says it, it is almost certainly true.

He was doing this same story if we lost to Burnley and the league cup semis at start of year.


Yeah but in fairness to him, we didn't lose those games, did we?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on March 10, 2020, 11:18:38 PM
I don't recall that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Luke8 on March 10, 2020, 11:22:09 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on March 10, 2020, 10:58:31 PM
Quote from: Luke8 on March 10, 2020, 10:57:02 PM
Not doubting the validity of the report but I always find the one/two games to save his job idea an odd concept. Say we win on Saturday (unlikely a scenario as it may be, I know) he is then good enough to keep his job? Seems a short sighted way of looking at things whatever your feelings on the manager.

I guess there has to be a tipping point, a last chance saloon in these things.

If he gets us three points against Chelsea, I'd give him more time.

He won't, though.

Suppose so. Wasn’t talking Smith necessarily, just the general concept that is generally reported of ‘x’ games to save their job. If Smith is the example, how many more games does a win on Saturday (I know, I know) give him then? What if he then losses the next four? Does he get another ‘game to save his job’? What if he wins that?

The general concept of making a judgement based on one game seems flawed and fairly unlikely to me. The timing with us having a decent break before we next play is probably more relevant.

Personally I think Smith is here until the end of the season regardless.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on March 10, 2020, 11:26:02 PM
Surely it wouldn't be based on one match, though, it would be based on the several months of poor results leading up to it, that one game being the tipping point.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: David_Nab on March 10, 2020, 11:41:49 PM
Quote from: Vill I An on March 10, 2020, 11:36:31 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on March 10, 2020, 11:18:36 PM
Quote from: Vill I An on March 10, 2020, 11:17:22 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on March 10, 2020, 10:47:06 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on March 10, 2020, 10:41:38 PM
Quote from: andyh on March 10, 2020, 10:38:27 PM
Percy now reporting that Smith is ‘fighting for his job’ with the Chelsea game being the crux.

https://twitter.com/avfctranstweet/status/1237507379597623298?s=21

Just posted the same in the Smith out thread Andy. It’s not exactly a stretch to make that assessment for any member of the media but Percy is generally pretty close to a lot coming out of Villa. I’m sure the club will just hate to fire him but in the end the cost (not just financial) of relegation will be incredible and something that has to be corrected while there is time to do so.

General rule of thumb = if John Percy says it, it is almost certainly true.

He was doing this same story if we lost to Burnley and the league cup semis at start of year.


Yeah but in fairness to him, we didn't lose those games, did we?

I don't think we'll lose to Chelsea
And we will beat Sheff Utd as game in hand which would see us out of the bottom 3
There is every chance to stay up as much as any chance of going down.
Where I will give up hope if we lose heavily on Saturday and lose or game in hand.
Otherwise it's to the wire if villa have not already made safe.
Hardly cut adrift and we re on to the next game
The other games are pretty irrelevant till it comes down to goal difference and points


I like your confidence but the evidence from the weekend is Chelsea are going to tear us apart
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on March 10, 2020, 11:45:01 PM
Quote from: andyh on March 10, 2020, 10:38:27 PM
Percy now reporting that Smith is ‘fighting for his job’ with the Chelsea game being the crux.

https://twitter.com/avfctranstweet/status/1237507379597623298?s=21

Interesting if one of the more reliable journalists on us is reporting that. Completely different to the mood over xmas when the club were right behind him.

Looks like a roll of the dice with a three week break and then congested April.

There's no way our board should just accept being meekly relegated from the premier league anyway.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Luke8 on March 10, 2020, 11:47:29 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on March 10, 2020, 11:26:02 PM
Surely it wouldn't be based on one match, though, it would be based on the several months of poor results leading up to it, that one game being the tipping point.



No, I agree, of course it won’t be. My, very minor, point was just on the way that it is often poorly reported in the media in my opinion.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on March 10, 2020, 11:50:38 PM
Quote from: Vill I An on March 10, 2020, 11:17:22 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on March 10, 2020, 10:47:06 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on March 10, 2020, 10:41:38 PM
Quote from: andyh on March 10, 2020, 10:38:27 PM
Percy now reporting that Smith is ‘fighting for his job’ with the Chelsea game being the crux.

https://twitter.com/avfctranstweet/status/1237507379597623298?s=21

Just posted the same in the Smith out thread Andy. It’s not exactly a stretch to make that assessment for any member of the media but Percy is generally pretty close to a lot coming out of Villa. I’m sure the club will just hate to fire him but in the end the cost (not just financial) of relegation will be incredible and something that has to be corrected while there is time to do so.

General rule of thumb = if John Percy says it, it is almost certainly true.

He was doing this same story if we lost to Burnley and the league cup semis at start of year.


Not sure on that. After we were awful at Watford pretty sure Percy or other journos who cover us did stories saying the club were fully backing DS.

I think the board just thought we'd kick on in the league especially after a pretty good January and at least be on 30 points by now. All it need was a point v Spurs and 4 from Bournemouth and Southampton but I imagine the awful performances in the away games have set the alarm bells ringing somewhat.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 11, 2020, 12:23:56 AM
It’s not just been the defeats, it’s been the nature of those defeats.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on March 11, 2020, 12:44:02 AM
It’s got to a point of desperation now. I can understand (even if I don’t agree) why they backed him as long as they have. But we’re getting battered now. We’re not even close to be being competitive and with what would be 9 games and 27 points it might just be enough time to get us out of the bottom 3. Because as it stands it sure as hell isn’t happening with Smith in charge.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tomd2103 on March 11, 2020, 01:09:38 AM
He cut a pretty lonely and isolated figure stood in the rain just shaking his head when the camera panned in on him towards the end of the game last night.  He looked a bit lost really and it is hard to see a way back from here.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on March 11, 2020, 01:25:26 AM
Eric Black until the end of the season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on March 11, 2020, 01:26:26 AM
How has it all come to this again in 10 months?! Never thought I’d be feeling as bad as 2015 again so soon. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 11, 2020, 01:28:44 AM
I was there the night he walked out of the tunnel at Villa Park.
It was emotional and we all hoped it was the beginning of something special and then the Magic of  Play off final only last year, which again I was lucky enough to witness.
It been a hell of a ride from the shambles of Xia, the failure of Bruce and to the hope of Smith.
Sadly he has not been able to come to terms with the Premier League and has lost his way.
It will be sad day if he leaves Villa Park having failed to survive his first season in this League.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 11, 2020, 02:16:54 AM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on March 11, 2020, 01:26:26 AM
How has it all come to this again in 10 months?! Never thought I’d be feeling as bad as 2015 again so soon.
The season has been defined by some significant and moral sapping defeats
The first game Spurs away, poor subs we play well and lose.
Arsenal away to lose that against 10 men whilst Smith stood passively on the side lines.
Liverpool 87minutes on the clock, again poor subs and game management we Snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
The awful performances against Saints at home to then actually play worse at Watford.
Then back to absolutely dire performances Bournemouth away Spurs again and then the shocker Saints away. Monday night was just another in a long line of insipid performances.
Yes we have lost other games but these stand out for me where Smith has failed to get anything out of the team or has not had the nous help the team get over the line.
These are the games that illustrate his failure imo.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Kimaster1976 on March 11, 2020, 06:47:57 AM
Up to say late October we were generally actually playing very well and looked so dangerous, we should have had far more points than we had, even just before Christmas the half time table (if all games finished at half time) had us at 3rd in the league.

Its total mis management that games were constantly thrown away from winning positions and sadly when it keeps happening its going to have a long term effect on belief and confidence to eventually produce the dross we are seeing in performances the last couple of months.

The inexplicable persisting with zonal marking from corners is just one highlight of his failures.

He is just not or ever will be a Premier League manager.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 11, 2020, 07:10:44 AM
We’re the worst of both worlds. We’re really open, so can’t defend, but equally we produce fuck all in attack.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Big Ming on March 11, 2020, 07:29:47 AM
Percy is not known for getting it wrong.

I expect a 2/3 goal defeat versus Chelsea and Smith out by Sunday. Of course, they might ask Terry to be caretaker for the rest of the season.

They wouldn't....... would they?

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on March 11, 2020, 07:48:10 AM
I agree with Chicago.  Fairy tales are not supposed to end like this.  It is made infinitely worse to take by not knowing how much was Dean's own fault.  There is a very real possibilty that if he is made to carry the can the real inadequacies at the club will still remain to greet Smith's replacement.  Poor coaching, lack of planning, lack of on field organization but most of all the elephant in the room will be the fathomless incompetence of targetted player evaluation.  Put crudely the dumping of flawed players on us by other clubs at astonomical prices.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on March 11, 2020, 07:53:10 AM
Quote from: Vill I An on March 10, 2020, 11:31:55 PM
I feel for Smith I really do . He's in an awkward situation and he's an excellent coach 
... except that he has not managed to coach this squad of players. Every week, people on here have pointed out coaching inadequacies, tactical naiveties and poor game management. Your assertion that he is "an excellent coach" does not hold up to scrutiny.
Quote from: Vill I An on March 10, 2020, 11:31:55 PM
but I feel the set-up does not serve him, but apparently actively seek to undermine him by having this Suso doing the
recruitment drive. JT was imposed upon him as a coach and then in summer he was having players like Wesley , Luiz and Targett imposed upon him.
...
This comment is full of assumptions, based on your earlier assertion about Smith being an ecellent coach.
Undoubtedly, the system - as a whole, and with the current personnel - has not worked for us, but to paint Smaith as a victim is presumptious and misleading.
In my opinion.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on March 11, 2020, 07:53:21 AM
I too hope he can turn it around but most of the deficiencies you point out there are either primarily, or partly, Dean’s responsibility.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Big Ming on March 11, 2020, 07:53:58 AM
I am starting to think that this season will probably end up being decided in the Law Courts and not on the pitch.

We may yet be saved.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on March 11, 2020, 08:11:40 AM
Never.  We are Aston Villa.  We will volunteer for relegation.  Noblesse oblige don't  you know.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on March 11, 2020, 09:00:38 AM
spot on Brian, the country needs us to do what we do best
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on March 11, 2020, 09:38:33 AM
I'm never sure where these 'one match' stories come from. I can't imagine anyone worth their salt would allow that information to leak and why brief the press on it?

Not to say it won't happen, but stuff isn't looking good.

The reality is we'd all rather he be kept on, as a result of winning games and showing that he's worth it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on March 11, 2020, 10:27:32 AM
you're right - sadly there is no evidence to support the argument.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on March 11, 2020, 10:55:19 AM
Percy has been on the money everytime from memory.  He predicted Sherwood having two games left and it was correct.  He obviously has someone fairly senior feeding him stuff.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on March 11, 2020, 11:24:25 AM
So,

I was thinking that perhaps our squad were young and inexperienced... So here are their ages...

37 Reina
33 Heaton
32 Elmo
31 Taylor
30 Drinkwater
29 Nyland, Lansbury, Hourihane
28 Jota
27 Baston, Steer, Samatta
26 Mings, Nakamba
25 Engels, Trezeguet, McGinn, Guilbert
24 El Ghazi, Hause, Grealish, Targett
23 Wesley
22 Sarkic, Konsa, Davis
21 Luiz
19 Vassilev
18 Archer
16 Barry

All of our better players are at the younger (Under 25) age range, which is why they are inconsistent. You could argue that players should be consistently brilliant at the younger range, but then you're talking big, big money aren't you?

The older players are steady, but let's face it aren't ever players we'd expect much from quality-wise and half of them are bloody goalies anyway!

I think the strategy is right in the long term, but we just don't have older players who can make a huge difference right now and that's what kills us and makes Smith's job so much harder.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 11, 2020, 11:25:33 AM
The remit in summer was to sign players 25 and under
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on March 11, 2020, 11:39:52 AM
Quote from: Vill I An on March 11, 2020, 11:25:33 AM
The remit in summer was to sign players 25 and under
Or to put it another way, 'young and hungry'.  That strategy fucked us before.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mallo on March 11, 2020, 11:45:42 AM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on March 11, 2020, 11:39:52 AM
Quote from: Vill I An on March 11, 2020, 11:25:33 AM
The remit in summer was to sign players 25 and under
Or to put it another way, 'young and hungry'.  That strategy fucked us before.
Or 'cheap and available'. I think we messed up the midfield (and Wesley to a large extent). If we'd spent another £15M on better midfielders I think we'd be ok but 20/20 hindsight is a wonderful thing.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on March 11, 2020, 11:51:12 AM
Quote from: mallo on March 11, 2020, 11:45:42 AM
Or 'cheap and available'. I think we messed up the midfield (and Wesley to a large extent). If we'd spent another £15M on better midfielders I think we'd be ok but 20/20 hindsight is a wonderful thing.
You don't need hindsight to know that a strategy of buying players with limited, if any, top flight experience - not to mention no English experience - under a manager with no top flight experience was flawed from the get go.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on March 11, 2020, 01:03:14 PM
my unpopular opinion is that I don’t think our recruitment is as bad as many others do
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on March 11, 2020, 01:08:02 PM
Quote from: john e on March 11, 2020, 01:03:14 PM
my unpopular opinion is that I don’t think our recruitment is as bad as many others do

Me either pal.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on March 11, 2020, 01:09:52 PM
Quote from: john e on March 11, 2020, 01:03:14 PM
my unpopular opinion is that I don’t think our recruitment is as bad as many others do
Me neither, in general we have some good players and I do like most of them, but I will say a more experienced centre midfielder and defender was a huge mistake though as well as a regular goalscoring forward. Stupid mistakes, which are so regular have killed our confidence and belief. Going right back to that Bournemouth game at the start where we payed so well only to be on the end of a stuffing.

We still do not know our best formation either which must fall at Smith's door.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on March 11, 2020, 01:23:56 PM
Quote from: LeeB on March 11, 2020, 01:08:02 PM
Quote from: john e on March 11, 2020, 01:03:14 PM
my unpopular opinion is that I don’t think our recruitment is as bad as many others do

Me either pal.
Player for player they may turn out to be ok.  Would have been fine as additions to a decent squad.  But for what we needed to be at the forefront of a PL battle for survival?  Absolutely daft.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Luke8 on March 11, 2020, 01:43:49 PM
Quote from: mallo on March 11, 2020, 11:45:42 AM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on March 11, 2020, 11:39:52 AM
Quote from: Vill I An on March 11, 2020, 11:25:33 AM
The remit in summer was to sign players 25 and under
Or to put it another way, 'young and hungry'.  That strategy fucked us before.
Or 'cheap and available'. I think we messed up the midfield (and Wesley to a large extent). If we'd spent another £15M on better midfielders I think we'd be ok but 20/20 hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Presumably the idea before the season started was that the first choice midfield theee would be Jack, McGinn and another (Luiz/Nakamba). For various reasons we haven’t been able to do that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on March 11, 2020, 01:44:24 PM
Quote from: LeeB on March 11, 2020, 01:08:02 PM
Quote from: john e on March 11, 2020, 01:03:14 PM
my unpopular opinion is that I don’t think our recruitment is as bad as many others do

Me either pal.

No, nor do I. Some of them look decent players but horribly lack confidence.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on March 11, 2020, 01:49:32 PM
Quote from: mallo on March 11, 2020, 11:45:42 AM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on March 11, 2020, 11:39:52 AM
Quote from: Vill I An on March 11, 2020, 11:25:33 AM
The remit in summer was to sign players 25 and under
Or to put it another way, 'young and hungry'.  That strategy fucked us before.
Or 'cheap and available'. I think we messed up the midfield (and Wesley to a large extent). If we'd spent another £15M on better midfielders I think we'd be ok but 20/20 hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Kalvin Phillips from Leeds was the player we should have signed.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Des Little on March 11, 2020, 01:50:12 PM
See also: Benrahma at Brentford
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on March 11, 2020, 01:50:20 PM
Quote from: Clampy on March 11, 2020, 01:44:24 PM
Quote from: LeeB on March 11, 2020, 01:08:02 PM
Quote from: john e on March 11, 2020, 01:03:14 PM
my unpopular opinion is that I don’t think our recruitment is as bad as many others do

Me either pal.

No, nor do I. Some of them look decent players but horribly lack confidence.
Agreed.
What this squad has lacked is coaching, game-management and disciplined simple football
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: frankmosswasmyuncle on March 11, 2020, 02:13:57 PM
Quote from: Mister E on March 11, 2020, 01:50:20 PM
Quote from: Clampy on March 11, 2020, 01:44:24 PM
Quote from: LeeB on March 11, 2020, 01:08:02 PM
Quote from: john e on March 11, 2020, 01:03:14 PM
my unpopular opinion is that I don’t think our recruitment is as bad as many others do

Me either pal.

No, nor do I. Some of them look decent players but horribly lack confidence.
Agreed.
What this squad has lacked is coaching, game-management and disciplined simple football
This.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: edgysatsuma89 on March 11, 2020, 02:17:45 PM
Quote from: frankmosswasmyuncle on March 11, 2020, 02:13:57 PM
Quote from: Mister E on March 11, 2020, 01:50:20 PM
Quote from: Clampy on March 11, 2020, 01:44:24 PM
Quote from: LeeB on March 11, 2020, 01:08:02 PM
Quote from: john e on March 11, 2020, 01:03:14 PM
my unpopular opinion is that I don’t think our recruitment is as bad as many others do

Me either pal.

No, nor do I. Some of them look decent players but horribly lack confidence.
Agreed.
What this squad has lacked is coaching, game-management and disciplined simple football
This.

I'm also of the view someone else would get more out of them.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Luke8 on March 11, 2020, 02:18:54 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on March 11, 2020, 01:49:32 PM
Quote from: mallo on March 11, 2020, 11:45:42 AM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on March 11, 2020, 11:39:52 AM
Quote from: Vill I An on March 11, 2020, 11:25:33 AM
The remit in summer was to sign players 25 and under
Or to put it another way, 'young and hungry'.  That strategy fucked us before.
Or 'cheap and available'. I think we messed up the midfield (and Wesley to a large extent). If we'd spent another £15M on better midfielders I think we'd be ok but 20/20 hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Kalvin Phillips from Leeds was the player we should have signed.

Would have been a great signing.

However, the problem with both him and Benrahma is that 1) we don’t know if the player wanted to come or club were willing to sell and 2) those two players would have taken up about £50-60 million of our budget and therefore we would have likely started the season with a squad of about 12 players.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on March 11, 2020, 02:21:06 PM
£20m would have closed the deal for Phillips according to reports in West Yorkshire.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Luke8 on March 11, 2020, 02:28:03 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on March 11, 2020, 02:21:06 PM
£20m would have closed the deal for Phillips according to reports in West Yorkshire.

I find that very hard to believe.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on March 11, 2020, 02:36:51 PM
Quote from: Luke8 on March 11, 2020, 02:28:03 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on March 11, 2020, 02:21:06 PM
£20m would have closed the deal for Phillips according to reports in West Yorkshire.

I find that very hard to believe.
If that's true I'm absolutely gutted we spunked £20m on Wesley and let him slip through our fingers.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on March 11, 2020, 02:43:59 PM
my unpopular opinion turned out to be a bit more popular than i was expecting
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Walmley_Villa on March 11, 2020, 04:30:20 PM
I really want him to succeed but Monday worried me as did Bournemouth away, Watford away, Southampton away. Are they not playing for him, believing in what he is doing? Even a bunch of poor players can fight and battle for results. I just don't see it unfortunately.

Yes, recruitment has been questionable and Suso definitely deserves the bullet if he is the main driver behind it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: supertom on March 11, 2020, 04:45:15 PM
My biggest worry is that our last decent Prem results were by the skin of our teeth, and they seem like ages ago now. Likewise, it worries me that our last few games have shown a shocking drop in effort from the players. We've made mistakes, way too many, but there weren't many games up to Nov-Dec where it didn't at least look like we were trying. Now this seems the norm and not the exception. They're not working hard enough. We've seen a distinct difference in the last three League Cup matches to the league games surrounding them. It's not purely tiredness either. Too many raised their game in the cup because it was a cup, with a day out at Wembley in the offing. That old 'every league game now is going to be a cup final' has already been proven bollocks because despite having 8 days to recoup, we were slack against Leicester. Not even registering a decent shot on goal is inexcusable.

If the players can't be bothered, fuck em all off. Get rid of Smith, Terry. Cobble as many of the few grafters we have, pray McGinn is back soon, and then promote 3-4 kids. See if Hutton fancies dusting off his boots. Our league performances are inexcusable. We've seen we can raise our effort levels. Yeah, we can a million miles short on quality against City, but we had the work-rate. Had we matched those levels, and had Nyland in goal and locked Reina in a broom cupboard, we might have picked up a result Monday.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: malckennedy on March 11, 2020, 04:50:43 PM
Does anyone remember our consistently piss poor performances last season until Grealish returned from injury. These had us sitting nearer relegation than promotion as March 2019 opened and confirmed my initial disappointment with the choice of Smith.

But all Villa fans want our managers to succeed (in spite of what some pundits say) so, like others, I enjoyed the promotion and hoped we’d build on it this year. But if we’re honest, we weren’t really very good for large parts of last season, despite having arguably the best two players in the division in Grealish and McGinn.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 11, 2020, 05:08:23 PM
There is no chance Phillips was leaving Leeds in the summer unless the offer was so stupidly high it was impossible to be turned down. Leeds had no interest in selling hence start the bidding at £30m, Phillips had no interest in leaving. He's their version of Jack, local lad at his club who was always giving it more crack at promotion. If they don't go up this season then he'll be off, same as would have happened with Jack.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on March 11, 2020, 05:32:03 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on March 11, 2020, 05:08:23 PM
There is no chance Phillips was leaving Leeds in the summer unless the offer was so stupidly high it was impossible to be turned down. Leeds had no interest in selling hence start the bidding at £30m, Phillips had no interest in leaving. He's their version of Jack, local lad at his club who was always giving it more crack at promotion. If they don't go up this season then he'll be off, same as would have happened with Jack.

We were extremely close to signing him. Those were the headlines but you forget he was on a couple of grand a week, Leeds needed the money, hadn't a pot to piss in and both would have agreed to the move should the fee meet their demands. Their was an article a few months back in the YEP from their Leeds reporter, somebody that is renowned for having the inside track at Elland Road, claiming we failed to match their £20m fee. I'll try and find it later.

Wolves, Sheff Utd and a few others were sniffing around Phillips in January with £20m plus add-ons being seen as the price.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 11, 2020, 05:39:51 PM
Quote
Aston Villa were linked with a move for Phillips in the summer, but the midfielder opted instead to sign a new contract at Elland Road.

Phillips spoke last month on 'the big picture' of Leeds achieving promotion, being behind his decision to stay with the Championship club.

“I am just happy now," he said. "The owner made it clear that he didn't want to sell me, I am grateful for that and the patience he had. You always want to play in the Premier League but I am at my hometown club and there is no better place for me.

“It felt like if I did leave I would be going to maybe play maybe not play but at Leeds everybody loves me. I have always wanted to play Premier League but you have got to open your eyes to the bigger picture and if I can help Leeds to the Premier League then what an achievement.”
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on March 11, 2020, 06:04:38 PM
Have a read by Phil Hay on the story. It appeared a few months back.

Phillips was prepared to move. Refused to sign a new contract. Felt undervalued at Leeds. Wanted to play in the PL. We failed to meet Leeds demands. Leeds fans wanted Phillips to stay and probably more important, so did Bielsa.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 11, 2020, 06:18:38 PM
Here's how it is through my vigruous research regards the transfers . I believe I covered the first team players.
 
Dean Smith I pushed for these 
Tom Heaton
Tyrone Mings
Ezri Konsa 
Bjorn Engels
Kortney Hause 
Jota
*Anwar El Ghazi already at club on loan

Smith adamant to have his players signed he came up with whatever the price.
Smith adamant to have an experienced goal keeper and understood remit for outfield players 25 years and under would be targets.
Preference for UK based Suso and Purslow wanted to have cost effective moves
Suso and scouts deployed in Europe for value pedigree signings

Dean Smith
I pushed for these transfers but they didn't think it was financial savvy to spend on championship players and no loan to develop other teams players allowed strategy.
Kalvin Phillips
Adam Webster
Saïd Benrahma
Neil Maupay
Jared Bowen
Harry Wilson and Ethan Ampadu weren't allowed to be taken on loan deals

Jesús García Pitarch
Suso made Smith aware and imposed upon him signings :
Kalanic
Reina
Freddie Guilbert
Matt Targett
Douglas Luiz
Marvelous Nakamba
Trezeguet
Wesley Moraes
Aly Samatta.
Borja Baston

Kalanic forced into permanent signing previous deal agreed Suso took deal rather than scout for new GK Smith didn't want him.
Tried to sign Guilbert in January 2019 but loan back was the deal.
Tried to sign Nakamba in January 2019 in the championship and had been tracking him til summer . Whilst scouting Suso thought Wesley was catching the eye and if promoted was pushing for him as Abraham replacement . Villa bought both after Suso making Smith aware of Wesley

JT
John Terry's Chelsea players advisory signing
Danny Drinkwater

Salmon Kalou : received a call from Terry, who asked him to come and sign for Villa
The forward admitted that a move back to England would have been appealing, and he would have loved to play in premier league.
The whole move was undermining Smith and was a pointless action as no work permit was being available for 34 year old Kalou .

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on March 11, 2020, 06:26:39 PM
Jared Bowen looks like single handedly saving West Ham. What a waste.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 11, 2020, 06:28:45 PM
All these could have been signed if Villa were prepared to back Smith financially and take Smith signings and adopt the coach idea.
Including loaning Harry Wilson and Ethan Ampadu

Suso and Purslow had other ideas as the outlay of in around of £100 mil on
Kalvin Phillips
Adam Webster
Saïd Benrahma
Neil Maupay
Jared Bowen
Seemed too risky taking championship players and having a sporting director it was his job to go get players that could be of value.
For me I wish we signed that lot ! Bet Deano does too !
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on March 11, 2020, 07:06:29 PM
Quote from: Vill I An on March 11, 2020, 06:28:45 PM
All these could have been signed if Villa were prepared to back Smith financially and take Smith signings and adopt the coach idea.
Including loaning Harry Wilson and Ethan Ampadu

Suso and Purslow had other ideas as the outlay of in around of £100 mil on
Kalvin Phillips
Adam Webster
Saïd Benrahma
Neil Maupay
Jared Bowen
Seemed too risky taking championship players and having a sporting director it was his job to go get players that could be of value.
For me I wish we signed that lot ! Bet Deano does too !
No idea how much truth is in this but I can't believe we'd be struggling to survice if we'd got most of that lot.  Bowen, Maupay & Phillips?
No way we could have afforded them all though.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: N'ZMAV on March 11, 2020, 08:11:29 PM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on March 11, 2020, 01:25:26 AM
Eric Black until the end of the season.
I'd rather Cilla Black.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: N'ZMAV on March 11, 2020, 08:12:27 PM
Quote from: Vill I An on March 11, 2020, 06:28:45 PM
All these could have been signed if Villa were prepared to back Smith financially and take Smith signings and adopt the coach idea.
Including loaning Harry Wilson and Ethan Ampadu

Suso and Purslow had other ideas as the outlay of in around of £100 mil on
Kalvin Phillips
Adam Webster
Saïd Benrahma
Neil Maupay
Jared Bowen
Seemed too risky taking championship players and having a sporting director it was his job to go get players that could be of value.
For me I wish we signed that lot ! Bet Deano does too !
ifs and buts

However, Smith is the head coach - it doesn't appear that much coaching has been done... especially defending.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on March 11, 2020, 08:46:37 PM
Quote from: john e on March 11, 2020, 02:43:59 PM
my unpopular opinion turned out to be a bit more popular than i was expecting

John it’s the same group of players that should have won at Tottenham, at Arsenal, vs Liverpool, at Man U as examples. But for any number of reasons we fucked up every game despite leading in every one of them. This squad isn’t as bad as they look, but between mistakes made and inept coaching and tactics they now look quite dreadful.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Richard E on March 11, 2020, 08:47:42 PM
Quote from: N'ZMAV on March 11, 2020, 08:11:29 PM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on March 11, 2020, 01:25:26 AM
Eric Black until the end of the season.
I'd rather Cilla Black.

I’d rather Jack than Fleetwood Mac.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: rougegorge on March 11, 2020, 09:05:34 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on March 11, 2020, 08:46:37 PM
Quote from: john e on March 11, 2020, 02:43:59 PM
my unpopular opinion turned out to be a bit more popular than i was expecting

John it’s the same group of players that should have won at Tottenham, at Arsenal, vs Liverpool, at Man U as examples. But for any number of reasons we fucked up every game despite leading in every one of them. This squad isn’t as bad as they look, but between mistakes made and inept coaching and tactics they now look quite dreadful.
Exactly.

The exceptions to poor performances this season have been few and far between.

Bruce got slated for his tactics, for Bruceball (whatever that was), for his style of play; so, because of that, because Dean Smith is a Villa fan and because he's a decent bloke, he has has had huge latitude this season.

What Smith has not shown are the coaching, tactical or management skills required at this level. Also, he's been consistently outthought by opposing managers all season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on March 11, 2020, 09:13:56 PM
Maupy has flopped.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on March 11, 2020, 09:18:41 PM
Quote from: Ads on March 11, 2020, 09:13:56 PM
Maupy has flopped.
Yes, I never rated him and in any case had we signed him he would have been another expensive gamble on an untested player.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on March 11, 2020, 09:40:03 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on March 11, 2020, 08:46:37 PM
Quote from: john e on March 11, 2020, 02:43:59 PM
my unpopular opinion turned out to be a bit more popular than i was expecting

John it’s the same group of players that should have won at Tottenham, at Arsenal, vs Liverpool, at Man U as examples. But for any number of reasons we fucked up every game despite leading in every one of them. This squad isn’t as bad as they look, but between mistakes made and inept coaching and tactics they now look quite dreadful.

i'm not arguing to keep Smith, if he has to go he has to go
i'm a bit worried about going with more of the same with a another British archaic old fashioned manager like we keep going for
but Smith is falling short i know that

the players are also falling short
however i see many think the recruitment is to blame and all i'm saying is i don't think its been a total disaster

for instance if we move on Guilbert, Nakamba, Luiz, Wesley, Samata, Target, Mings, Engels because they 'never worked out' it will in my opinion be Amavi, Guye, Veratout, Ayew, Traore all over again

every one of them will be playing top flight football for us or someone else in the future
we will be posting stuff on here about that 'Guilbert' fella we used to have is putting in some fine performances for whoever just like we do about Traore or Guye

most of them are new to this league and new to this country, they will adapt and improve
they have all had awfull games i know that but also had motm games as well, proving they can do it

players who wont be playing top class football are Elmo, Taylor, Hourahane, Konsa, Hause, Lansbury, Drinkwater
i know Suso/Smith/Purslow are responsible for a few of them but you cant get everyone right

thats just my opinion, if Smith goes at the weekend i will be disappointed it never worked out but feel he was out of his depth at the end with few ideas as to what to do

but the playing squad we have built up under him is not as disastrous as is made out imo
in fact i actually feel quite confident of a early return given we get the right manger in


 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on March 11, 2020, 09:41:12 PM
Some good points there.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Des Little on March 11, 2020, 09:48:42 PM
I can’t help but think that Smith is a Vic Crowe for the modern age. Big on homegrown appeal, very likeable but ultimately not good enough. I’d be really sad if he did go, as I genuinely think he’d get us back up, but I can’t see him keeping us up, which of course is his brief.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Flamingo Lane on March 11, 2020, 09:55:58 PM
I don't think it very fair to characterise Vic Crowe as 'ultimately not good enough', given what he did actually achieve as manager following the departure of Tommy Docherty.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on March 11, 2020, 09:56:36 PM
Quote from: Vill I An on March 11, 2020, 06:18:38 PM
Here's how it is through my vigruous research regards the transfers . I believe I covered the first team players.
 
Dean Smith I pushed for these 
Tom Heaton
Tyrone Mings
Ezri Konsa 
Bjorn Engels
Kortney Hause 
Jota
*Anwar El Ghazi already at club on loan

Smith adamant to have his players signed he came up with whatever the price.
Smith adamant to have an experienced goal keeper and understood remit for outfield players 25 years and under would be targets.
Preference for UK based Suso and Purslow wanted to have cost effective moves
Suso and scouts deployed in Europe for value pedigree signings

Dean Smith
I pushed for these transfers but they didn't think it was financial savvy to spend on championship players and no loan to develop other teams players allowed strategy.
Kalvin Phillips
Adam Webster
Saïd Benrahma
Neil Maupay
Jared Bowen
Harry Wilson and Ethan Ampadu weren't allowed to be taken on loan deals

Jesús García Pitarch
Suso made Smith aware and imposed upon him signings :
Kalanic
Reina
Freddie Guilbert
Matt Targett
Douglas Luiz
Marvelous Nakamba
Trezeguet
Wesley Moraes
Aly Samatta.
Borja Baston

Kalanic forced into permanent signing previous deal agreed Suso took deal rather than scout for new GK Smith didn't want him.
Tried to sign Guilbert in January 2019 but loan back was the deal.
Tried to sign Nakamba in January 2019 in the championship and had been tracking him til summer . Whilst scouting Suso thought Wesley was catching the eye and if promoted was pushing for him as Abraham replacement . Villa bought both after Suso making Smith aware of Wesley

JT
John Terry's Chelsea players advisory signing
Danny Drinkwater

Salmon Kalou : received a call from Terry, who asked him to come and sign for Villa
The forward admitted that a move back to England would have been appealing, and he would have loved to play in premier league.
The whole move was undermining Smith and was a pointless action as no work permit was being available for 34 year old Kalou .

And you know all of this for a fact? How do you know this? I wish I was that well connected. Unless you are Dean Smith and writing your  book to make you look good.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 11, 2020, 10:27:09 PM
No writes a book to look bad.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Des Little on March 11, 2020, 11:15:41 PM
Quote from: Flamingo Lane on March 11, 2020, 09:55:58 PM
I don't think it very fair to characterise Vic Crowe as 'ultimately not good enough', given what he did actually achieve as manager following the departure of Tommy Docherty.

Didn’t Smith do something similar? Take a failing team and get them up, only to fall short of expectations? Losing a LC final albeit against far superior opponents? I’ll stand corrected if I’m wrong, no problem with that whatsoever.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Louzie0 on March 11, 2020, 11:24:39 PM
Quote from: Vill I An on March 11, 2020, 10:27:09 PM
No writes a book to look bad.
True.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on March 12, 2020, 06:55:34 PM
Quote from: john e on March 11, 2020, 09:40:03 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on March 11, 2020, 08:46:37 PM
Quote from: john e on March 11, 2020, 02:43:59 PM
my unpopular opinion turned out to be a bit more popular than i was expecting

John it’s the same group of players that should have won at Tottenham, at Arsenal, vs Liverpool, at Man U as examples. But for any number of reasons we fucked up every game despite leading in every one of them. This squad isn’t as bad as they look, but between mistakes made and inept coaching and tactics they now look quite dreadful.

i'm not arguing to keep Smith, if he has to go he has to go
i'm a bit worried about going with more of the same with a another British archaic old fashioned manager like we keep going for
but Smith is falling short i know that

the players are also falling short
however i see many think the recruitment is to blame and all i'm saying is i don't think its been a total disaster

for instance if we move on Guilbert, Nakamba, Luiz, Wesley, Samata, Target, Mings, Engels because they 'never worked out' it will in my opinion be Amavi, Guye, Veratout, Ayew, Traore all over again

every one of them will be playing top flight football for us or someone else in the future
we will be posting stuff on here about that 'Guilbert' fella we used to have is putting in some fine performances for whoever just like we do about Traore or Guye

most of them are new to this league and new to this country, they will adapt and improve
they have all had awfull games i know that but also had motm games as well, proving they can do it

players who wont be playing top class football are Elmo, Taylor, Hourahane, Konsa, Hause, Lansbury, Drinkwater
i know Suso/Smith/Purslow are responsible for a few of them but you cant get everyone right

thats just my opinion, if Smith goes at the weekend i will be disappointed it never worked out but feel he was out of his depth at the end with few ideas as to what to do

but the playing squad we have built up under him is not as disastrous as is made out imo
in fact i actually feel quite confident of a early return given we get the right manger in

I agree that this issue is not all about player-recruitment: although some undoubtedly are not good enough. The main issue is coaching, organisation, fitness and game management. The evidence for this is obvious in our defence of corners and set pieces.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on March 13, 2020, 12:35:58 PM
Quote from: john e on March 11, 2020, 09:40:03 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on March 11, 2020, 08:46:37 PM
Quote from: john e on March 11, 2020, 02:43:59 PM
my unpopular opinion turned out to be a bit more popular than i was expecting

John it’s the same group of players that should have won at Tottenham, at Arsenal, vs Liverpool, at Man U as examples. But for any number of reasons we fucked up every game despite leading in every one of them. This squad isn’t as bad as they look, but between mistakes made and inept coaching and tactics they now look quite dreadful.

i'm not arguing to keep Smith, if he has to go he has to go
i'm a bit worried about going with more of the same with a another British archaic old fashioned manager like we keep going for
but Smith is falling short i know that

the players are also falling short
however i see many think the recruitment is to blame and all i'm saying is i don't think its been a total disaster

for instance if we move on Guilbert, Nakamba, Luiz, Wesley, Samata, Target, Mings, Engels because they 'never worked out' it will in my opinion be Amavi, Guye, Veratout, Ayew, Traore all over again

every one of them will be playing top flight football for us or someone else in the future
we will be posting stuff on here about that 'Guilbert' fella we used to have is putting in some fine performances for whoever just like we do about Traore or Guye

most of them are new to this league and new to this country, they will adapt and improve
they have all had awfull games i know that but also had motm games as well, proving they can do it

players who wont be playing top class football are Elmo, Taylor, Hourahane, Konsa, Hause, Lansbury, Drinkwater
i know Suso/Smith/Purslow are responsible for a few of them but you cant get everyone right

thats just my opinion, if Smith goes at the weekend i will be disappointed it never worked out but feel he was out of his depth at the end with few ideas as to what to do

but the playing squad we have built up under him is not as disastrous as is made out imo
in fact i actually feel quite confident of a early return given we get the right manger in


 
It IS about player recruitment though.  All of these players may well to turn out to be good - in fact I'm confident some will.  They would have been good additions to an established squad where the could be bedded in slowly.

BUT expecting them all to fit in immeadiately, hit the ground running and be at the forefront of a relegation scrap? Fucking madness.  As was relying on a 22 year Brazillian who had only played in a medocre league to be our only viable forward option.

The problem with the recruitment is not necessarily about individual players, it is that the philosophy never really gave us a chance.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Big Ming on March 13, 2020, 01:20:34 PM
Deano.

Reprieved?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on March 13, 2020, 02:07:35 PM
3 more weeks to figure out where to set traps
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: itbrvilla on March 13, 2020, 10:52:19 PM
Quote from: Big Ming on March 13, 2020, 01:20:34 PM
Deano.

Reprieved?
Untouchable it seems.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brentastonb6 on March 14, 2020, 12:26:32 AM
Quote from: itbrvilla on March 13, 2020, 10:52:19 PM
Quote from: Big Ming on March 13, 2020, 01:20:34 PM
Deano.

Reprieved?
Untouchable it seems.
Good, I might be in a minority but I’m glad.I so want to see him succeed and leave after a long successful career here leaving a fantastic legacy. He’s due any luck that comes his way. If he can survive this season we’ll be so much stronger next year. UTV
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan82 on March 14, 2020, 12:45:28 AM
I wanted him replaced because the season seemed to be lost.

However, if we get a reprieve and everything is basically reset that changes. I think everybody involved with Aston Villa will benefit from the 28 games we have had under our belts and we will all be stronger next season. Also, if things don't look good midway through the next season we should act as five relegation spots would be, erm, scary.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: algy on March 14, 2020, 07:32:49 AM
Quote from: brentastonb6 on March 14, 2020, 12:26:32 AM
Quote from: itbrvilla on March 13, 2020, 10:52:19 PM
Quote from: Big Ming on March 13, 2020, 01:20:34 PM
Deano.

Reprieved?
Untouchable it seems.
Good, I might be in a minority but I’m glad.I so want to see him succeed and leave after a long successful career here leaving a fantastic legacy. He’s due any luck that comes his way. If he can survive this season we’ll be so much stronger next year. UTV
I'm back in the Smith in camp. I think with a break and a few fresh faces he'll turn it around. Was concerned that he wouldn't have the tone to do all that, but it looks like there'll be a bit of a break, and I think that's probably all that's needed - everyone rested, SJM/Heaton/Wes back to full fitness, couple of additions, we'll be right as rain.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on March 14, 2020, 07:41:49 AM
I'm with you algy
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on March 14, 2020, 09:16:10 AM
I think there’s a lot more to be worried about at the moment, but when it’s all calmed down I don’t want him starting next season as manager. He’s not of the standard required.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nunkin1965 on March 14, 2020, 09:26:21 AM
Quote from: Drummond on March 14, 2020, 07:41:49 AM
I'm with you algy

I’m in with the Smith crowd.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: itbrvilla on March 14, 2020, 09:45:24 AM
Quote from: Risso on March 14, 2020, 09:16:10 AM
I think there’s a lot more to be worried about at the moment, but when it’s all calmed down I don’t want him starting next season as manager. He’s not of the standard required.
Nowhere near. He's done nothing to show he is developing or learning.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT on March 14, 2020, 09:45:39 AM
Quote from: Nunkin1965 on March 14, 2020, 09:26:21 AM
Quote from: Drummond on March 14, 2020, 07:41:49 AM
I'm with you algy

I’m in with the Smith crowd.

..and me. Who knows, we might have Heaton and Wes back by the time we ever play again.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on March 14, 2020, 11:04:40 AM
or the game could have gone bust. The financial ramifications are huge and will probably ensure we and two others go down.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SamTheMouse on March 14, 2020, 11:08:05 AM
Quote from: Risso on March 14, 2020, 09:16:10 AM
I think there’s a lot more to be worried about at the moment, but when it’s all calmed down I don’t want him starting next season as manager. He’s not of the standard required.

Reluctantly, I have to agree.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on March 14, 2020, 02:28:02 PM
Quote from: itbrvilla on March 14, 2020, 09:45:24 AM
Quote from: Risso on March 14, 2020, 09:16:10 AM
I think there’s a lot more to be worried about at the moment, but when it’s all calmed down I don’t want him starting next season as manager. He’s not of the standard required.
Nowhere near. He's done nothing to show he is developing or learning.
That's the key point: he has not demonstrated learning, the coaching has not dealt with obvious on-the-field issues, the desperation-acquisitions in January were reckless and in the last 2 league games the players did not seem interested.
Sad to say, he's out of his depth.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: geolex on March 14, 2020, 02:33:12 PM
Quote from: Des Little on March 11, 2020, 11:15:41 PM
Quote from: Flamingo Lane on March 11, 2020, 09:55:58 PM
I don't think it very fair to characterise Vic Crowe as 'ultimately not good enough', given what he did actually achieve as manager following the departure of Tommy Docherty.

Didn’t Smith do something similar? Take a failing team and get them up, only to fall short of expectations? Losing a LC final albeit against far superior opponents? I’ll stand corrected if I’m wrong, no problem with that whatsoever.


Crowe finished 3rd in his 1st season after promotion (dont think smith will).. when villa got to LC final in 1971 we beat teams who put out their best sides ie Burnley (who were one season off promotion back to div 1)) man utd (3 years off Euro cup win) not wolves and liverpool schoolboys..so i dont think the comparison is  fair
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TheMalandro on March 14, 2020, 04:54:05 PM
With the game (world) in meltdown - give Pochettino a call, offer him a big contract and a vision.

Obviously a unlikely appointment, but if our owners are serious, why not?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 14, 2020, 05:37:51 PM
I don't think anyone is going to be making huge financial commitments until we have some idea when the next competitive game is likely to be.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on March 14, 2020, 05:59:41 PM
This could easily see the football landscape change dramatically - and if ultimately it results in considerably less money going to the PL I'm all for it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Flamingo Lane on March 14, 2020, 09:41:37 PM
Vic Crowe also oversaw the development of the youth set up that led to the likes of Brian Little, John Gidman and Bobby McDonald becoming first team regulars at the age of 18/19.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on March 14, 2020, 10:59:56 PM
Quote from: mr underhill on March 14, 2020, 05:59:41 PM
This could easily see the football landscape change dramatically - and if ultimately it results in considerably less money going to the PL I'm all for it.

Good point. I wonder how many Sky Sports contracts will be canceled not to be renewed in the near future.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tony scott on March 15, 2020, 07:30:20 AM
I think Dean has found the Premier league more difficult than he had hoped it would be, he must be worried that whatever permutation he try’s, the players are not responding, some of this down the calibra of the opposition. I think the most significant factor is the ability of opposition coaches/ managers to easily counter his preferred system of play.
He by all accounts embraces modern coaching techniques so I think it’s the ability to change tactics during the game that’s missing, and without it the team and coaching will never reach the consistent high level that’s required.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on March 15, 2020, 09:50:46 AM
a good point well made.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dicedlam on March 15, 2020, 10:30:36 AM
Quote from: tony scott on March 15, 2020, 07:30:20 AM

He by all accounts embraces modern coaching techniques so I think it’s the ability to change tactics during the game that’s missing, and without it, the team and coaching will never reach the consistently high level that’s required.

Dean Smith, along with his coaching staff will never reach the high levels of consistency without first increasing the player's fitness levels in order to compete in this league. One of the many failings this year is how we have not been able to see games out from either winning/drawing positions due to players blowing out of there arses late in a game.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ASHTONVILLA on March 15, 2020, 11:04:56 AM
If we stay up then we will have Corona virus to thank for it.

The club need to take the opportunity to get a new manager and coaches ahead of the next season, and spend some money on the obvious gaps in the team. Namely an aggressive ball winning midfielder, better full back/s, and better winger/s.

I still think Nakamba, Luiz, AEG, Guilbert, Nyland and Engels could come good as part of a squad. All have had good performances at times but suffer from not being rotated more when they have off spells.

Trez, Wesley, Konsa, Hause, Hourihane, Taylor, Target I would be looking to move on if we get chance.

Samatta, McGinn, Grealish Mings and Heaton are all good players that we can keep and add to.

If the league gets voided we have an opportunity to go and get someone like Pochetino given we have wealthy owners, a good fan base and stadium and cash to spend from staying up. I also think FFP will be relaxed to avoid clubs going under which will benefit Villa.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on March 15, 2020, 02:26:07 PM
Quote from: ASHTONVILLA on March 15, 2020, 11:04:56 AM
If we stay up then we will have Corona virus to thank for it.

The club need to take the opportunity to get a new manager and coaches ahead of the next season, and spend some money on the obvious gaps in the team. Namely an aggressive ball winning midfielder, better full back/s, and better winger/s.

I still think Nakamba, Luiz, AEG, Guilbert, Nyland and Engels could come good as part of a squad. All have had good performances at times but suffer from not being rotated more when they have off spells.

Trez, Wesley, Konsa, Hause, Hourihane, Taylor, Target I would be looking to move on if we get chance.

Samatta, McGinn, Grealish Mings and Heaton are all good players that we can keep and add to.

If the league gets voided we have an opportunity to go and get someone like Pochetino given we have wealthy owners, a good fan base and stadium and cash to spend from staying up. I also think FFP will be relaxed to avoid clubs going under which will benefit Villa.

Both Wesley and Konsa could - as you say of others - come good in a more balanced and better-performing squad. After all, each have had good performances at times.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dcdavecollett on March 19, 2020, 11:51:49 PM
Happy birthday, Deano!!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Hookeysmith on March 20, 2020, 10:38:00 AM
All this clamour for Pochetino - i just dont get the facination.
He had a good few years in the top flight and amassed the sum of runners up in Champs league

I would actually like a winner to come in rather than a charming loser
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on March 20, 2020, 01:58:45 PM
Quote from: Hookeysmith on March 20, 2020, 10:38:00 AM
All this clamour for Pochetino - i just dont get the facination.
He had a good few years in the top flight and amassed the sum of runners up in Champs league

I would actually like a winner to come in rather than a charming loser

I don't get posts like this either. Surely there are degrees of success, depending on circumstance? Your approach marks out Alex McLeish as a winner, and Graham Taylor as a charming loser.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ASHTONVILLA on March 20, 2020, 02:19:42 PM
Quote from: Hookeysmith on March 20, 2020, 10:38:00 AM
All this clamour for Pochetino - i just dont get the facination.
He had a good few years in the top flight and amassed the sum of runners up in Champs league

I would actually like a winner to come in rather than a charming loser

Could have said that about Ranieri
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on March 20, 2020, 03:51:16 PM
Quote from: Hookeysmith on March 20, 2020, 10:38:00 AM
All this clamour for Pochetino - i just dont get the facination.
He had a good few years in the top flight and amassed the sum of runners up in Champs league

I would actually like a winner to come in rather than a charming loser

You're going to have a bit of a wait for Klopp or Guardiola mate!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on March 20, 2020, 05:35:33 PM
Quote from: Hookeysmith on March 20, 2020, 10:38:00 AM
All this clamour for Pochetino - i just dont get the facination.
He had a good few years in the top flight and amassed the sum of runners up in Champs league

I would actually like a winner to come in rather than a charming loser


I think getting Spurs to a Champions League final on the budget he had was an excellent achievement.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dcdavecollett on March 23, 2020, 08:24:04 PM
He might have done even better had he been allowed to sign JG in the summer of 2018 for about £10m.

Happily for everyone, Levy knew better.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on March 23, 2020, 08:49:00 PM
Quote from: Hookeysmith on March 20, 2020, 10:38:00 AM
All this clamour for Pochetino - i just dont get the facination.
He had a good few years in the top flight and amassed the sum of runners up in Champs league

I would actually like a winner to come in rather than a charming loser

Did very well at Southhampton which is more comparable to us than Spurs.

Still don't really see it as realistic option.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on March 24, 2020, 12:34:24 PM
that was a long long time ago and the PL has changed out of all recognition since.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Hookeysmith on March 24, 2020, 01:11:13 PM
Although Spurs would have him back, in the main due to not liking Moanarino much, there were a good few that called for his head at the time due to tactics, not showing up in big games etc.

Of all the big names out there previously I would have loved Anchelotti
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on March 24, 2020, 01:28:19 PM
Quote from: mr underhill on March 24, 2020, 12:34:24 PM
that was a long long time ago and the PL has changed out of all recognition since.

It was only 5 years ago.

Southampton were a newly promoted team then so not much different to what Wolves and Sheffield United have been doing this year.

Just checked back to 13-14. He finished 8th (thought it was 6th or 7th) but you needed 69 points that season just to finish 6th so hugely different to this season where the trend was looking 10 points lower.

He also promoted lots of youth players like Shaw, Calum Chambers and others into their first team, done the same at Spurs.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 26, 2020, 11:01:42 AM
Are some people honestly saying they wouldn’t be happy with  Pochettino as manager? Blimey.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on March 26, 2020, 02:14:21 PM
I’d love him here, his Southampton side we’re ace.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on March 26, 2020, 05:59:15 PM
Quote from: Ian J on March 26, 2020, 02:14:21 PM
I’d love him here, his Southampton side we’re ace.

His Spurs side weren't bad save the last few months.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: colin69 on March 26, 2020, 08:57:58 PM
I wanted Dean Smith out but now I think whenever football returns he should still be in charge.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on March 26, 2020, 11:28:07 PM
Quote from: LeeB on March 26, 2020, 05:59:15 PM
Quote from: Ian J on March 26, 2020, 02:14:21 PM
I’d love him here, his Southampton side we’re ace.

His Spurs side weren't bad save the last few months.
They were very good, I agree I just wanted to point out he’s been doing a very good for quite some years.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: N'ZMAV on March 27, 2020, 06:51:26 PM
Why would Poch go from a side he got in the top 4 consistently to a side deep in relegation trouble?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: oldhill_avfc on March 27, 2020, 07:58:09 PM
tens of thousands a £reasons per week I would imagine
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on March 27, 2020, 08:04:48 PM
Quote from: N'ZMAV on March 27, 2020, 06:51:26 PM
Why would Poch go from a side he got in the top 4 consistently to a side deep in relegation trouble?

To prove himself?  Use us as a stepping stone?  Because we might sell him the club with these owners?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Simon Page on March 27, 2020, 09:33:15 PM
Top flight managers tend to do the job because they love it. Most are, or very soon will be, wealthy enough not to have to work. If a decent challenge comes up they jump at the chance to be involved. Rodgers at Leicester, Benitez at Newcastle, add your own. They love it and, unless they don't like the club or have a better offer in the wings, most take it.

I want Smith to stay though.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: itbrvilla on March 28, 2020, 07:06:05 AM
Quote from: colin69 on March 26, 2020, 08:57:58 PM
I wanted Dean Smith out but now I think whenever football returns he should still be in charge.
Why should he.? He's not shown us any reasons to keep him on.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 28, 2020, 08:51:48 AM
To be honest if we are in a position anytime soon where Dean is leading us out in front of a packed Villa Park I’ll be delighted (and I think he should have gone).
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: colin69 on March 28, 2020, 09:15:09 AM
Quote from: itbrvilla on March 28, 2020, 07:06:05 AM
Quote from: colin69 on March 26, 2020, 08:57:58 PM
I wanted Dean Smith out but now I think whenever football returns he should still be in charge.
Why should he.? He's not shown us any reasons to keep him on.
I do fully get what you’re saying and up until 10-14 days ago I also wanted him gone. However with everything that’s going on in the world at the moment (which is far more important than football) I think it would be pretty obscene to get rid of him now.
I can’t see football resuming for quite some time but when it does I think Dean should still be there. Whether it’s the right thing to do long term  though is another matter.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on March 28, 2020, 01:10:23 PM
There is no chance at all he’s getting fired. It’s an amazing way to have survived but unless the season is able to finish which is highly unlikely now he’ll be our manager next season. And I hope if he is he’ll have learnt something about why things have turned upside down for him.

There were plenty of positives early in the campaign he didn’t capitalize on. And that really cost us later as we started to ship goals for fun and our attacking ability all but vanished. Next season we have buy better players but we need a far more stoic, pragmatic approach. I doubt we will spend £150m or whatever it was again. Sign players who will fight to grind out points and proper quality to share the load with Jack when we attack. And stop being so fucking tactically naive in games. Know when to close things out, subs at HT, change things based on circumstances. It’s something we all thought he’d be good at but was found severely lacking.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: algy on March 28, 2020, 02:27:49 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on March 28, 2020, 01:10:23 PM
There is no chance at all he’s getting fired. It’s an amazing way to have survived but unless the season is able to finish which is highly unlikely now he’ll be our manager next season. And I hope if he is he’ll have learnt something about why things have turned upside down for him.

There were plenty of positives early in the campaign he didn’t capitalize on. And that really cost us later as we started to ship goals for fun and our attacking ability all but vanished. Next season we have buy better players but we need a far more stoic, pragmatic approach. I doubt we will spend £150m or whatever it was again. Sign players who will fight to grind out points and proper quality to share the load with Jack when we attack. And stop being so fucking tactically naive in games. Know when to close things out, subs at HT, change things based on circumstances. It’s something we all thought he’d be good at but was found severely lacking.
It's been done to death, but we had little option but to sign loads of signings based on potential rather than current skill. Was for sacking Smith in March since the new manager bounce might've kept us up. However, we won't be playing for months (or more), and so might be able to get another transfer window in, regroup, etc etc. I think Deano showed enough promise in the Championship, and the circumstances this season have been difficult ... I'd keep him on, at least on the understanding that it's now going to be season 3 for him and the expectations will match that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan82 on March 29, 2020, 07:48:27 PM
I watched the Everton 2-0 home win back. Dean Smith has aged about 10 years since that night, he looked a different man.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on March 30, 2020, 09:00:55 AM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on March 28, 2020, 01:10:23 PM
There is no chance at all he’s getting fired. It’s an amazing way to have survived but unless the season is able to finish which is highly unlikely now he’ll be our manager next season. And I hope if he is he’ll have learnt something about why things have turned upside down for him.

There were plenty of positives early in the campaign he didn’t capitalize on. And that really cost us later as we started to ship goals for fun and our attacking ability all but vanished. Next season we have buy better players but we need a far more stoic, pragmatic approach. I doubt we will spend £150m or whatever it was again. Sign players who will fight to grind out points and proper quality to share the load with Jack when we attack. And stop being so fucking tactically naive in games. Know when to close things out, subs at HT, change things based on circumstances. It’s something we all thought he’d be good at but was found severely lacking.
Fitness, ball retention, movement, tactical nous and game management. Oh, and defensive solidity.
That's what they should be working on now and prior to the resumption.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: David_Nab on March 30, 2020, 10:42:52 AM
Quote from: Villan82 on March 29, 2020, 07:48:27 PM
I watched the Everton 2-0 home win back. Dean Smith has aged about 10 years since that night, he looked a different man.

Seems to happen to every Villa manager ..remember the state of Lambert when he left to the guy who joined .
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 30, 2020, 11:12:57 PM
Quote from: David_Nab on March 30, 2020, 10:42:52 AM
Quote from: Villan82 on March 29, 2020, 07:48:27 PM
I watched the Everton 2-0 home win back. Dean Smith has aged about 10 years since that night, he looked a different man.

Seems to happen to every Villa manager ..remember the state of Lambert when he left to the guy who joined .

Yes. Could have passed for a film star when appointed. Three years later, he looked like Colonel Gaddafi shortly after they pulled him out of that sewer.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan82 on March 31, 2020, 12:55:51 AM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on March 30, 2020, 11:12:57 PM
Quote from: David_Nab on March 30, 2020, 10:42:52 AM
Quote from: Villan82 on March 29, 2020, 07:48:27 PM
I watched the Everton 2-0 home win back. Dean Smith has aged about 10 years since that night, he looked a different man.

Seems to happen to every Villa manager ..remember the state of Lambert when he left to the guy who joined .

Yes. Could have passed for a film star when appointed. Three years later, he looked like Colonel Gaddafi shortly after they pulled him out of that sewer.

The physical deterioration of Lambert was staggering. His beard phase too was a clear cry for help!

Then he looked great within months of the tic-tac.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 31, 2020, 12:49:12 PM
Quote from: Villan82 on March 31, 2020, 12:55:51 AM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on March 30, 2020, 11:12:57 PM
Quote from: David_Nab on March 30, 2020, 10:42:52 AM
Quote from: Villan82 on March 29, 2020, 07:48:27 PM
I watched the Everton 2-0 home win back. Dean Smith has aged about 10 years since that night, he looked a different man.

Seems to happen to every Villa manager ..remember the state of Lambert when he left to the guy who joined .

Yes. Could have passed for a film star when appointed. Three years later, he looked like Colonel Gaddafi shortly after they pulled him out of that sewer.

The physical deterioration of Lambert was staggering. His beard phase too was a clear cry for help!

Then he looked great within months of the tic-tac.
I thought he looked brilliant, I really did.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tony scott on March 31, 2020, 01:15:48 PM
I don’t think Jacks latest shenanigans will have slowed the aging process.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Footy-Vill on April 20, 2020, 12:03:32 PM
As well as looking to improve his Spanish with a little bit of extra learning the gaffer has been re watching every single Vill match played this season to refresh his mind on the intricacies of the good and bad of the villa play.
Not only this Deano has , via a video link , appraised each and every squad member having personal one to one conversation and assessing them .

That's a real class act and complete professionalism by Dean Smith , one to never stop learning and looking after player welfare and development.
This manager shows  there is no end to how much good he keeps wanting to improve himself and his players.

Smith says:

"So, over the last three or four weeks, I've actually done an hour's review with each player, individually, just by video chat, just speaking to them about their season, how they think it's gone, what they think they need to improve on."

"We've got a sports psychology programme at the football club which we use and probably this is one of those periods where all players throughout the leagues should be tapping into it and seeing what they can do for themselves."

Smith also in regular contact with the fitness and performance coaches several times a week. Villa doing all the right things in having the players levels monitored, level of exertion recorded and how intensive the training is as well as having extra  equipment sent to players.

Really impressive how Dean Smith is keeping this club going at a most difficult time
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on April 20, 2020, 12:07:37 PM
Thats good stuff Vill I An.  It's the sort of stuff you would expect any competant club to be doing, but it's still reassuring to hear.  If the season does renew, the clubs who have managed to keep players engaged, motivated and as fit as possible will thrive.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on April 20, 2020, 12:11:48 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on April 20, 2020, 12:07:37 PM
Thats good stuff Vill I An.  It's the sort of stuff you would expect any competant club to be doing, but it's still reassuring to hear.  If the season does renew, the clubs who have managed to keep players engaged, motivated and as fit as possible will thrive.
It'll be interesting to see what impact the lessons-learned from the season to date will have on the set-up and execution of future games. We seemed to have learned very little thus far.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT on April 20, 2020, 01:40:08 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on April 20, 2020, 12:07:37 PM
Thats good stuff Vill I An.  It's the sort of stuff you would expect any competant club to be doing, but it's still reassuring to hear.  If the season does renew, the clubs who have managed to keep players engaged, motivated and as fit as possible will thrive.

It certainly is reassuring. I doubt too many of the managers before him would've been doing it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on April 20, 2020, 02:15:03 PM
All good, just wish he would avoid the "at the football club" cliché bingo.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on April 20, 2020, 05:43:37 PM
Show me, don't tell me. 

When we get back to normality of course.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: David_Nab on April 23, 2020, 06:08:06 PM
Before the games where stopped reports where he could be for the chop .I wonder how playing with no fans will effect that , in terms of no fans their to turn on him so owners can't  base the fans reaction at games to what to do ..certainly he wont get a cabbage thrown at him
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on April 23, 2020, 06:34:35 PM
I think they will simply go by the results.  if Wes Edens comments recently made are to be believed, Dean is lucky he's still there!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 23, 2020, 08:19:30 PM
Quote from: Newby on April 23, 2020, 06:34:35 PM
I think they will simply go by the results.  if Wes Edens comments recently made are to be believed, Dean is lucky he's still there!
He is lucky, it was certainly a possibility that the Chelsea game could have been his last.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on April 23, 2020, 10:32:38 PM
He's more likely to be here next season whatever happens now I think.

Got a weird feeling Frank Lampard's going to be our next manager. Might check out the odds.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on April 23, 2020, 11:25:45 PM
What were Wes Edens recent quotes? I think I've heard him talk about the Villa twice; upon saving the club and after winning at Wembley last year.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on April 23, 2020, 11:36:08 PM
Quote
Aston Villa's recruitment hasn't been all together successful since they were promoted to the Premier League.

The recruitment team, headed up by Spaniard Jesus Garcia Pitarch, identified and signed 12 players for £130million last summer. Very few of those players have proved to be successful buys, while the jury is still out on those who arrived in January.

To find the method behind Villa's transfer window strategy you need look no further than co-owner Wes Edens - a billionaire businessman with bags of experience in sport prior to pitching up at Villa Park.

In addition to Villa, Edens also co-owns NBA side Milwaukee Bucks and has enjoyed great success by identifying players through analytics.

‘Moneyball’ has become a core transfer policy for a number of British football clubs with Dean Smith’s former employers Brentford pioneers thanks to owner Matthew Benham.

The claret and blues leaned on analytics heavily in past transfer windows, although head of recruitment at the time Paddy Riley came to loggerheads with Tim Sherwood in 2015 over signings.

But the likes of Jordan Amavi, Idrissa Gana Gueye, Jordan Veretout and Jordan Ayew have since moved on to bigger and better things.

And judging by Edens’ comments during a Q&A with Interview.net, Villa’s approach to transfer windows will include much more statistical analysis.

“You know I always tell people in our businesses great judgement, overrated, great information, underrated,” says Edens.

“Because truly if you have great information most of the decisions are pretty darn simple. Yeah and so I feel like in soccer they’ve got a long way to go in terms of analytics data.

And so I feel like there’s a lot to be caught up to honestly and I believe in the end when you look there’s a number of NBA owners and U.S. sports owners that have done tremendously well (in football).

“You have Stan Kroenke at Arsenal, John Henry at Liverpool. Obviously they’ve got tremendous teams though and I’ve talked to both of them and others about their experiences. And I think that there are a lot more similarities than differences but there are some big differences for sure.”

Edens, who bought a controlling stake in Villa alongside Nassef Sawiris in 2018, understands talent-spotting still requires a good eye.

Villa have revamped their scouting system over the last 12 months with departures and arrivals aplenty.

Edens continued: “It’s not merely the data but I do think the foundation of it should be data driven and I think that that’s where we talk about underdogs and what not.

“It’s just that I have this very high motor to try to see things for what they are and that’s what the data allows you to do if you just apply it properly.

“But then you need good judgement at the end of course. But you know if it’s balanced by this underpinning of data and information you’re just likely to make much better decisions.”

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on April 24, 2020, 12:53:54 AM
Cheers Socc.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on April 24, 2020, 08:44:57 AM
I don't understand how Wesley fitted into this.  I listened to a stats football podcast just after we have bought him - can't recall if it was Tifo or Stats bomb, but this is player scouting on football stats was basically what the contributors to the pod do - and they thought Wesley was a really poor buy for Villa based on stats. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: David_Nab on April 24, 2020, 07:33:29 PM
Quote from: eamonn on April 23, 2020, 11:25:45 PM
What were Wes Edens recent quotes? I think I've heard him talk about the Villa twice; upon saving the club and after winning at Wembley last year.

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/its-very-reasonable-wes-edens-18128536

Quote
Wes Edens has outlined his plan for Aston Villa to become one of the biggest teams in the world - and when he hopes to achieve it by.

Edens along with Nassef Sawiris, bought the club from Dr Tony Xia in the summer of 2018, helping Villa stave off the imminent threat of administration.
After winning promotion in May of last year, the two billionaires bankrolled a transfer window spree of almost £150m to give Dean Smith a side capable of competing in the Premier League.However, before the top-flight was halted last month, Villa found themselves in the bottom three, firmly entrenched in the relegation scrap.

In a revealing interview filmed last month, Edens reaffirmed his commitment to make Villa a world leader, but emphasised the need to retain their Premier League status.

“The ambition is obviously to stay up, it’s a competitive league, that first step up is a big one,” Edens told Bloomberg.
“Villa has a very long and proud tradition, it’s been a very successful club. Our goal is to be one of the top clubs in the world, play in all the major competitions, do all those things.
Aston Villa co-owner Wes Edens has outlined his ambitions for the club.

Edens along with Nassef Sawiris, bought the club from Dr Tony Xia in the summer of 2018, helping Villa stave off the imminent threat of administration.

“The ambition is obviously to stay up, it's a competitive league, that first step up is a big one," Edens told Bloomberg.

“Villa has a very long and proud tradition, it's been a very successful club. Our goal is to be one of the top clubs in the world, play in all the major competitions, do all those things.

“The first step is to stay up. We've got a tough run-in, but then so do a lot of other teams. We've got a lot of talent on the team, so we feel good about that."

He added: "I'm an impatient man, so we want it all to happen tomorrow. But if there is one thing I take away from the Bucks experience is that style of play really matters and once you commit to a style of play, everything takes care of itself.

“In soccer it lends itself to getting away from that because you want a result tomorrow or you've got a game to win. But I think it's the same thing."
“Hire the right people, empower them, give them the right resources, hope they make the right decisions and then let the players play.”

Asked if he could replicate the successes of the Bucks and have Villa in the top-four within five years, he replied: “I think it’s very reasonable. I’m an impatient man, so we want it all to happen tomorrow. But if there is one thing I take away from the Bucks experience is that style of play really matters and once you commit to a style of play, everything takes care of itself.

“In soccer it lends itself to getting away from that because you want a result tomorrow or you’ve got a game to win. But I think it’s the same thing.”
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on April 26, 2020, 06:35:28 AM
Dyche is on our radar again, apparently.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on April 26, 2020, 10:57:43 AM
Quote from: mr underhill on April 26, 2020, 06:35:28 AM
Dyche is on our radar again, apparently.

I would like Dyche to manage us, I think he would be a good fit. Not sure if that is now. I always thought that Martin Jol would have been excellent after MON.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on April 26, 2020, 11:02:39 AM
Muttley?  He's not exactly been a roaring success since, has he?!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on April 26, 2020, 12:40:51 PM
Quote from: eamonn on April 26, 2020, 11:02:39 AM
Muttley?  He's not exactly been a roaring success since, has he?!

He is managing on a shoestring budget with a club not a great deal bigger than Bournemouth and possibly smaller than small heath.  The only problem for me on Dyche is I wonder if he is such a good fit for Burnley, he will struggle anywhere else.  A bit like Curbishley at Charlton all those years ago.  I have no doubt though that he'd get more out of the present bunch than Dean is.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Richard E on April 26, 2020, 12:42:22 PM
It’s not physically possible for a club to be smaller than Small Heath.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on April 26, 2020, 01:34:46 PM
Palace are interested too, apparently, and to my mind he might be a better fit there. I thought Burnley were awful at VP and at one point, looked in real danger of the relegation places, but once again Dyche has seemingly pulled it round. I wouldn't be aghast if he got the Villa job , just not sure he wouldn't be one in a long list of managers who failed to manage the size of the club and its expectations.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 26, 2020, 01:51:37 PM
Hopefully some one will switch the radar off.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on April 26, 2020, 02:11:26 PM
Quote from: Three Spires Villa on April 26, 2020, 10:57:43 AM
Quote from: mr underhill on April 26, 2020, 06:35:28 AM
Dyche is on our radar again, apparently.

I would like Dyche to manage us, I think he would be a good fit. Not sure if that is now. I always thought that Martin Jol would have been excellent after MON.

Dyche has done a great job at Burnley but his style of football wouldn't be remotely accepted at Villa Park.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KevinGage on April 26, 2020, 02:17:43 PM
Quote from: mr underhill on April 26, 2020, 06:35:28 AM
Dyche is on our radar again, apparently.

If the current state o' chassis (and yes, there are of course more important things than football) means we get a pass, we need to be looking at a more appealing candidate than Dyche.

Not entirely convinced that Smith needs to be potted yet either.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on April 26, 2020, 02:18:19 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on April 26, 2020, 01:51:37 PM
Hopefully some one will switch the radar off.

Yes hopefully they view it as some kind of unwelcome drone, and blast it out of the sky.

I've had my fill of that kind of football, ta.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on April 26, 2020, 02:19:00 PM
Dyche? No thanks. Stick with Smith.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on April 26, 2020, 03:42:00 PM
Would rather have Eddie Howe than Dyche personally.

Dyche plays a very rigid 4-4-2 and plenty of direct play and gambling on second balls. No doubt he'd keep us up more easily than what DS has attempted this season but ultimately the next managerial appointment we make surely must give us a chance of at least finishing regularly in top half and being in european contention.

Again though it's a big wide world out there. Likes of Leandro Jardim and Marcelinho (worked with suso at Valencia) have managed in champions league and won trophies and neither are in jobs currently so if that's still the case when we next need a manager they really should be serious options.

Just going for an alright domestic option would be very Lerner esque imo. I want a little more from these owners.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on April 26, 2020, 04:09:01 PM
Quote from: brontebilly on April 26, 2020, 02:11:26 PM
Quote from: Three Spires Villa on April 26, 2020, 10:57:43 AM
Quote from: mr underhill on April 26, 2020, 06:35:28 AM
Dyche is on our radar again, apparently.

I would like Dyche to manage us, I think he would be a good fit. Not sure if that is now. I always thought that Martin Jol would have been excellent after MON.

Dyche has done a great job at Burnley but his style of football wouldn't be remotely accepted at Villa Park.

Of course it would be acceptable. It's pretty similar to how MON plays.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on April 26, 2020, 06:59:35 PM
That's what I thought. It isn't like he plays Stoke style anti-football. He has even managed to make Ashley Westwood look like a decent player.

Still, I won't worry too much about who the next manager might be while we still have a manager.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on April 26, 2020, 07:41:39 PM
We are not about to dump Dean Smith for Sean Dyche. What a fucking load of click bait bollocks. Now, I have no doubt the club are taking this time to weigh up options should we decide to make a change; stay or go down. But with the world to choose from we ain't fucking landing on Dyche. And I have a lot of respect for what Dyche has done given his resources but we need a massive step up from the likes of him if we are reach our goals.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on April 26, 2020, 07:46:17 PM
Given the quotes attributed to Edens on the previous page, I think it's safe to rule Dyche out of the equation (and I also think he's done a good job. As has Bruce, and he can fuck off too).
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on April 26, 2020, 09:56:51 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on April 26, 2020, 07:46:17 PM
Given the quotes attributed to Edens on the previous page, I think it's safe to rule Dyche out of the equation (and I also think he's done a good job. As has Bruce, and he can fuck off too).
Exactly. I you read Wes Edens comments about his ambitions for the club i don't know how anybody could come to the conclusion that a manager like Dyche would even be considered.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on April 27, 2020, 12:59:36 PM
Quote from: The Edge on April 26, 2020, 09:56:51 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on April 26, 2020, 07:46:17 PM
Given the quotes attributed to Edens on the previous page, I think it's safe to rule Dyche out of the equation (and I also think he's done a good job. As has Bruce, and he can fuck off too).
Exactly. I you read Wes Edens comments about his ambitions for the club i don't know how anybody could come to the conclusion that a manager like Dyche would even be considered.

To be fair, he talked about finding 'a style of play and sticking with it'. You can't say Dyche doesn't do that, it's just that it happens to be made up of the following:

Two big fuck off lumps up top
Get it in the mixer, attack the second ball
Scythe through opponents danger men
(repeat)

Burnley are fucking shit, they're basically Wimbledon with history and not as obnoxious.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on April 27, 2020, 01:16:17 PM
yes, but I bet you's swap league places with them
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SheffieldVillain on April 27, 2020, 01:20:04 PM
Quote from: mr underhill on April 27, 2020, 01:16:17 PM
yes, but I bet you's swap league places with them

I'd swap league places with Newcastle too, doesn't mean it would be a good idea to reappoint Steve Bruce.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on April 27, 2020, 02:28:49 PM
Quote from: LeeB on April 27, 2020, 12:59:36 PM
Quote from: The Edge on April 26, 2020, 09:56:51 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on April 26, 2020, 07:46:17 PM
Given the quotes attributed to Edens on the previous page, I think it's safe to rule Dyche out of the equation (and I also think he's done a good job. As has Bruce, and he can fuck off too).
Exactly. I you read Wes Edens comments about his ambitions for the club i don't know how anybody could come to the conclusion that a manager like Dyche would even be considered.

To be fair, he talked about finding 'a style of play and sticking with it'. You can't say Dyche doesn't do that, it's just that it happens to be made up of the following:

Two big fuck off lumps up top
Get it in the mixer, attack the second ball
Scythe through opponents danger men
(repeat)

Burnley are fucking shit, they're basically Wimbledon with history and not as obnoxious.

I think I'd slightly prefer that to Smith's tactic of giving every team a two goal head start.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on April 27, 2020, 03:00:15 PM
Quote from: Risso on April 27, 2020, 02:28:49 PM
Quote from: LeeB on April 27, 2020, 12:59:36 PM
Quote from: The Edge on April 26, 2020, 09:56:51 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on April 26, 2020, 07:46:17 PM
Given the quotes attributed to Edens on the previous page, I think it's safe to rule Dyche out of the equation (and I also think he's done a good job. As has Bruce, and he can fuck off too).
Exactly. I you read Wes Edens comments about his ambitions for the club i don't know how anybody could come to the conclusion that a manager like Dyche would even be considered.

To be fair, he talked about finding 'a style of play and sticking with it'. You can't say Dyche doesn't do that, it's just that it happens to be made up of the following:

Two big fuck off lumps up top
Get it in the mixer, attack the second ball
Scythe through opponents danger men
(repeat)

Burnley are fucking shit, they're basically Wimbledon with history and not as obnoxious.

I think I'd slightly prefer that to Smith's tactic of giving every team a two goal head start.

I believe there is some middle ground to be found between the two positions.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Richard E on April 27, 2020, 03:05:04 PM
Only giving every team a one goal start?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on April 27, 2020, 03:55:04 PM
Quote from: Richard E on April 27, 2020, 03:05:04 PM
Only giving every team a one goal start?

When can you start?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on April 27, 2020, 05:04:28 PM
Did we ever find out if Dyche is a 40 fags a day man or he was just born with the larynx of a wombat?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: steamer on April 27, 2020, 05:07:17 PM
No thank yo
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 27, 2020, 05:42:33 PM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on April 27, 2020, 03:55:04 PM
Quote from: Richard E on April 27, 2020, 03:05:04 PM
Only giving every team a one goal start?

When can you start?


Genius
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: N'ZMAV on April 27, 2020, 05:46:25 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on April 23, 2020, 10:32:38 PM
Got a weird feeling Frank Lampard's going to be our next manager. Might check out the odds.
what makes you think that? can't see Chelsea sacking him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on April 28, 2020, 10:25:01 PM
Alan Pardew is available...
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on April 28, 2020, 10:26:16 PM
KFC are hiring.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on April 28, 2020, 11:19:49 PM
Old but still funny.


https://www.football365.com/news/quote-unquote-pardews-when-youre-the-king (https://www.football365.com/news/quote-unquote-pardews-when-youre-the-king)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on April 28, 2020, 11:28:04 PM
Even more reason to hire him, he'd be the Lions King.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on April 28, 2020, 11:51:14 PM
Quote from: N'ZMAV on April 27, 2020, 05:46:25 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on April 23, 2020, 10:32:38 PM
Got a weird feeling Frank Lampard's going to be our next manager. Might check out the odds.
what makes you think that? can't see Chelsea sacking him.

Not now but in 12 months time perhaps.

When Chelsea transfer ban is lifted expectations will inevitably increase and plenty of their managers get sacked if they're miles off a league challenge. It's not a club where even succesful managers like Mourinho or Conte stay more than 3 years.

Depends on timing but if DS keeps us up he'll still be here next season. Lampard's done well enough this season to be there next season aswell. After that it wouldn't shock me if both clubs are looking for managers in summer 2021 or whenever 20-21 actually ends.

Now given what Wes has said recently about playing decent football and also I imagine more emphasis on youth team and improving the flow to first team in next few years I'd say Lampard would be a serious consideration for them.

Even if John Terry has moved on from us by that point you can certainly see him recommending Lampard for the job if asked his opinion by the owners which I imagine they will.

He wouldn't be my first choice and it all depends on timing but I'd imagine he'd figure pretty highly on our shortlist if he's out of work the next time we change manager. Already got CL experience which would surely be something owners would also be looking for.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on April 29, 2020, 12:05:32 AM
Quote from: Three Spires Villa on April 26, 2020, 10:57:43 AM
Quote from: mr underhill on April 26, 2020, 06:35:28 AM
Dyche is on our radar again, apparently.

I would like Dyche to manage us, I think he would be a good fit. Not sure if that is now. I always thought that Martin Jol would have been excellent after two seasons of MON.

FTFY

We'll never learn.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aldridgeboy on April 29, 2020, 01:24:37 AM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on April 28, 2020, 11:51:14 PM
Quote from: N'ZMAV on April 27, 2020, 05:46:25 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on April 23, 2020, 10:32:38 PM
Got a weird feeling Frank Lampard's going to be our next manager. Might check out the odds.
what makes you think that? can't see Chelsea sacking him.

Not now but in 12 months time perhaps.

When Chelsea transfer ban is lifted expectations will inevitably increase and plenty of their managers get sacked if they're miles off a league challenge. It's not a club where even succesful managers like Mourinho or Conte stay more than 3 years.

Depends on timing but if DS keeps us up he'll still be here next season. Lampard's done well enough this season to be there next season aswell. After that it wouldn't shock me if both clubs are looking for managers in summer 2021 or whenever 20-21 actually ends.

Now given what Wes has said recently about playing decent football and also I imagine more emphasis on youth team and improving the flow to first team in next few years I'd say Lampard would be a serious consideration for them.

Even if John Terry has moved on from us by that point you can certainly see him recommending Lampard for the job if asked his opinion by the owners which I imagine they will.

He wouldn't be my first choice and it all depends on timing but I'd imagine he'd figure pretty highly on our shortlist if he's out of work the next time we change manager. Already got CL experience which would surely be something owners would also be looking for.

I can certainly see logic in this.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on April 29, 2020, 05:36:25 PM
We're almost on Page 500 of this thread (or Page 5 if you're Legion - the endless scroll, huh?). He's done well Dean, wonder how many pages Dr Jo would have got.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on April 29, 2020, 09:46:56 PM
It's page 150. Honestly, tsk. 🙄
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on April 30, 2020, 10:08:27 AM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on April 29, 2020, 12:05:32 AM
Quote from: Three Spires Villa on April 26, 2020, 10:57:43 AM
Quote from: mr underhill on April 26, 2020, 06:35:28 AM
Dyche is on our radar again, apparently.

I would like Dyche to manage us, I think he would be a good fit. Not sure if that is now. I always thought that Martin Jol would have been excellent after two seasons of MON.

FTFY

We'll never learn.

I will bow to your superior knowledge, jeez
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on April 30, 2020, 10:24:21 AM
Poch targeted by Jawdies' new owner.
He's a class act ...



... just sayin', like.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on April 30, 2020, 10:56:28 AM
there is more chance of an asteroid colliding with Earth than Poch going to Newcastle.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on April 30, 2020, 11:12:15 AM
Quote from: mr underhill on April 30, 2020, 10:56:28 AM
there is more chance of an asteroid colliding with Earth than Poch going to Newcastle.

To be fair, the chances of an asteroid impacting earth are somewhere around the 100% mark, just a question of when.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Billy Walker on April 30, 2020, 12:42:17 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on April 28, 2020, 11:51:14 PM
Quote from: N'ZMAV on April 27, 2020, 05:46:25 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on April 23, 2020, 10:32:38 PM
Got a weird feeling Frank Lampard's going to be our next manager. Might check out the odds.
what makes you think that? can't see Chelsea sacking him.

Not now but in 12 months time perhaps.

When Chelsea transfer ban is lifted expectations will inevitably increase and plenty of their managers get sacked if they're miles off a league challenge. It's not a club where even succesful managers like Mourinho or Conte stay more than 3 years.

Depends on timing but if DS keeps us up he'll still be here next season. Lampard's done well enough this season to be there next season aswell. After that it wouldn't shock me if both clubs are looking for managers in summer 2021 or whenever 20-21 actually ends.

Now given what Wes has said recently about playing decent football and also I imagine more emphasis on youth team and improving the flow to first team in next few years I'd say Lampard would be a serious consideration for them.

Even if John Terry has moved on from us by that point you can certainly see him recommending Lampard for the job if asked his opinion by the owners which I imagine they will.

He wouldn't be my first choice and it all depends on timing but I'd imagine he'd figure pretty highly on our shortlist if he's out of work the next time we change manager. Already got CL experience which would surely be something owners would also be looking for.

I kind of understand your reasoning but it would be a pretty smalltime appointment in my opinion.  I'd hope we'd be aiming for something a bit more dynamic and upwardly mobile than a guy deemed surplus to requirements at Chelsea.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on April 30, 2020, 01:24:26 PM
Quote from: Mister E on April 30, 2020, 10:24:21 AM
Poch targeted by Jawdies' new owner.
He's a class act ...



... just sayin', like.
I'd be amazed if he went there, but if he did I'd be dissapointed at an opportunity missed by us.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KevinGage on April 30, 2020, 03:04:01 PM
From the way he was speaking about us after we signed John McGinn - and again when he was linked with the job after Bruce's departure - it would be Brendan Rodgers if we're looking to make a change.

Depends how much backing he's getting in the current job. Quite a lot, by the looks of it. But there is a ceiling with clubs like Leicester. A stage as big as VP and getting a club like us firing might just appeal to him.

That assumes Tottingham or the like don't come in for him in the meantime.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on April 30, 2020, 03:55:28 PM
I know a couple of Celtic fans in Glasgow, and after John signed for us they thought that Brendan would come to Villa. Apparently it got quite messy at Celtic Park with Brendan only attending the ground for matches, he was always at the training ground, he and the board were hardly on speaking terms. Of course I have no idea if true. Personally I would love Brendan at Villa, but unfortunately at the moment I do not think it will happen
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AV82EC on April 30, 2020, 04:17:05 PM
Brendan Rogers is too clever for his own good. Outthought by tactics Tim at Wembley.....no thanks.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 30, 2020, 05:11:28 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on April 30, 2020, 01:24:26 PM
Quote from: Mister E on April 30, 2020, 10:24:21 AM
Poch targeted by Jawdies' new owner.
He's a class act ...



... just sayin', like.
I'd be amazed if he went there, but if he did I'd be dissapointed at an opportunity missed by us.
Yep
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on April 30, 2020, 05:14:01 PM
Quote from: AV82EC on April 30, 2020, 04:17:05 PM
Brendan Rogers is too clever for his own good. Outthought by tactics Tim at Wembley.....no thanks.

He is a bit too clever for is own good, but he is clever, and he clearly knows how to get players playing in a distinctive, effective and attractive style.

He improves individuals too, he'd be my no1 potentially getable choice.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SashasGrandad on April 30, 2020, 05:14:12 PM
Quote from: AV82EC on April 30, 2020, 04:17:05 PM
Brendan Rogers is too clever for his own good. Outthought by tactics Tim at Wembley.....no thanks.

Bottled another semi more recently as well.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on April 30, 2020, 05:36:32 PM
A bit too pseudo intellectual for me but a good manager, we'd probably be nuts to turn him down should he ever be offered the job and accept. The big doubt I have with him is the unshakable feeling that as soon as something he perceived to be bigger and better, he'd be off.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on April 30, 2020, 06:01:19 PM
Quote from: mr underhill on April 30, 2020, 05:36:32 PM
A bit too pseudo intellectual for me but a good manager, we'd probably be nuts to turn him down should he ever be offered the job and accept. The big doubt I have with him is the unshakable feeling that as soon as something he perceived to be bigger and better, he'd be off.

Oh I agree with that. If however he made us better and left, he would leave us in a better position to get a good manager
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on April 30, 2020, 06:42:50 PM
Brendan Rodgers or Rafa for me.  I do 't think we'd get either though and likely to stick with Dean, sadly.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on April 30, 2020, 07:49:44 PM
Quote from: AV82EC on April 30, 2020, 04:17:05 PM
Brendan Rogers is too clever for his own good. Outthought by tactics Tim at Wembley.....no thanks.

I don't think you can really judge a manager by one game.

I'd be delighted with Rodgers. Can't see it happening, though, at least not yet.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on April 30, 2020, 08:00:14 PM
Talk of Rodgers is pie in the sky at the moment.  He is doing well at Leicester and they are at least a few years ahead of us in terms os squad development.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on April 30, 2020, 08:35:51 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on April 30, 2020, 08:00:14 PM
Talk of Rodgers is pie in the sky at the moment.  He is doing well at Leicester and they are at least a few years ahead of us in terms os squad development.

I suspect you're right Chris.  Such a shame because we are ripe for a good quality manager to come in and really make the place bounce.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VinnieChase84 on April 30, 2020, 10:52:16 PM
Rafa maybe (depending on what Newcastle do) but Rodgers is a no hoper.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on May 01, 2020, 09:03:22 AM
A definite no to Rafa - he'd want to finish the owners' coffers off.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on May 01, 2020, 09:49:01 AM
I'd rather stick with Smith.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on May 01, 2020, 10:29:55 AM
Weren't Purslow and Benitez at loggerheads at Liverpool? Thought Purslow was part of the reason Benitez left.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clark W Griswold on May 01, 2020, 12:20:44 PM
Hmmm, i'm not really in a rush to ditch Smith but i'd definately prefer Benitez given the choice. If he fell out with Purslow though you'd imagine it's a non starter.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on May 01, 2020, 12:31:36 PM
I'd like to say that I was only advocating Rogers in the event of a change, I'm not suggesting we should make that change.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on May 01, 2020, 02:39:58 PM
I don't think Rodgers would leave Leicester for us. He is doing well enough there to sit tight and wait for a top six club in England or abroad. Pochettino could probably get a big job in England, Spain, Italy, Germany or France. Newcastle did well to get Benitez. I think he wanted to be back in England as his kids were at school here. I think there are way too many options open to Pochettino for him to go to Newcastle. Back in the old days when we still used to play football I was all for replacing Smith with Allardyce due to the jobs he did at keeping Blackburn, Sunderland, Palace and Everton in the top flight when every one of them looked doomed to relegation.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on May 01, 2020, 03:00:20 PM
Quote from: Drummond on May 01, 2020, 09:49:01 AM
I'd rather stick with Smith.

For evermore?

I'm not sure we're all suggesting make a change this summer but more looking ahead to 18-2 years time when hopefully we'd have stabilised enough in the prem to kick on and start challenging for europe as the owners want to with their interviews.

As a club you have to do that somtimes. Leicester were nowhere near top 4 with Claude Puel in charge, they are now with Rodgers with largely the same squad.

Spurs kept on finishing 5th when they appointed Pochettino. Think in his five full seasons they only failed to finish outside the top 4 once and that was in his first season so two examples of clubs that needed a bit more direction kicking on with a better managerial appointment.

I am interested to see who Newcastle appoint, think Poch is a bit of a fantasy link.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on May 01, 2020, 03:41:17 PM
In 2 years time, and Smith still with us, he'll be doing just fine.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: passitsideways on May 02, 2020, 02:13:33 AM
I think the discussion has to be had if the club stays up but a few months into next season (whenever that is), assuming that Jack stays and a few decent additions are made on paper, the same issues that have plagued this season don't look like they're being solved.

But if there's relegation, I just don't think anyone who would represent a noticeable upgrade on Deano would be interested in coming, no matter how good a game Purslow or whoever might be able to talk.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AndyB6 on May 02, 2020, 09:48:39 AM
I don't think there are many premier league or championship managers who would not fancy a crack at it at the Villa  with our current owners.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brentastonb6 on May 02, 2020, 03:03:13 PM
Quote from: Drummond on May 01, 2020, 03:41:17 PM
In 2 years time, and Smith still with us, he'll be doing just fine.
I hope so too , he started off so brightly with positive formations and tactics . Let’s hope this break has given him effectively a pre season to stop , take stock and re evaluate.
Let’s face it we need a long term strategy and succession planning to be successful. I don’t see any of the managers who have been mentioned being the sort that won’t want to be leaving us after a couple of seasons for a perceived bigger better option instead of being part of the long term plan to achieve our full potential here and become that said club.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on May 02, 2020, 04:40:13 PM
Dean's a busted flush. An enforced hiatus isn't going to repair that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brentastonb6 on May 02, 2020, 06:33:07 PM
Quote from: mr underhill on May 02, 2020, 04:40:13 PM
Dean's a busted flush. An enforced hiatus isn't going to repair that.
As always you could be right , I’m hoping you’re wrong
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on May 02, 2020, 07:06:40 PM
This break from it all has made me remember how fucking bad I want this one to succeed.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: exiled on the wirral! on May 02, 2020, 07:29:51 PM
This thread especially over the last few pages epitomises what is wrong with the modern game..Saunders and Taylor struggled the year after promotion. How about at least give the guy the season to see he can emulate those greats before we try and coax Klopp from his current employer...FFS
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on May 02, 2020, 07:30:25 PM
We had lost 4 in a row with a couple of abject performances thrown in.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: exiled on the wirral! on May 02, 2020, 07:36:25 PM
And lost narrowingly in a cup final against one of the top teams in Europe..
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on May 02, 2020, 07:38:25 PM
Quote from: exiled on the wirral! on May 02, 2020, 07:36:25 PM
And lost narrowingly in a cup final against one of the top teams in Europe..
That makes it 5.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tony scott on May 02, 2020, 10:20:59 PM
The dilemma I desperate for him to succeed, I’m desperate for us to stay in this division.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on May 02, 2020, 10:47:51 PM
Nobody is more desperate for his success than me. At Easter last year, I expressed my pride at how he had instilled a love back amongst us that we were once again proud to share with the world. On that same holiday, there was pottery painting, "for the kids". My mug...

(https://i.ibb.co/KNBngDZ/DSC-0443.jpg) (https://ibb.co/KNBngDZ)

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on May 02, 2020, 11:15:56 PM
Quote from: exiled on the wirral! on May 02, 2020, 07:29:51 PM
This thread especially over the last few pages epitomises what is wrong with the modern game..Saunders and Taylor struggled the year after promotion. How about at least give the guy the season to see he can emulate those greats before we try and coax Klopp from his current employer...FFS

Different era my friend and they didn't spend crazy money on new players when they came up.  I see nothing in Dean to show me that he can get the players pulling for him.  I think he lacks grip and failed to address the defensive midfield problems and defending.  I'd give him to the end of the season, stay up, or go down and he leaves.  If the comments from Wes Edens recently at the be believed, he will want bigger and better than Dean.  IMO, of course.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on May 02, 2020, 11:22:35 PM
Quote from: Newby on May 02, 2020, 11:15:56 PM
Quote from: exiled on the wirral! on May 02, 2020, 07:29:51 PM
This thread especially over the last few pages epitomises what is wrong with the modern game..Saunders and Taylor struggled the year after promotion. How about at least give the guy the season to see he can emulate those greats before we try and coax Klopp from his current employer...FFS

Different era my friend and they didn't spend crazy money on new players when they came up.  I see nothing in Dean to show me that he can get the players pulling for him.  I think he lacks grip and failed to address the defensive midfield problems and defending.  I'd give him to the end of the season, stay up, or go down and he leaves.  If the comments from Wes Edens recently at the be believed, he will want bigger and better than Dean.  IMO, of course.

Ron Saunders broke our transfer record twice during his first season up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on May 02, 2020, 11:26:06 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on May 02, 2020, 11:22:35 PM
Quote from: Newby on May 02, 2020, 11:15:56 PM
Quote from: exiled on the wirral! on May 02, 2020, 07:29:51 PM
This thread especially over the last few pages epitomises what is wrong with the modern game..Saunders and Taylor struggled the year after promotion. How about at least give the guy the season to see he can emulate those greats before we try and coax Klopp from his current employer...FFS

Different era my friend and they didn't spend crazy money on new players when they came up.  I see nothing in Dean to show me that he can get the players pulling for him.  I think he lacks grip and failed to address the defensive midfield problems and defending.  I'd give him to the end of the season, stay up, or go down and he leaves.  If the comments from Wes Edens recently at the be believed, he will want bigger and better than Dean.  IMO, of course.

Ron Saunders broke our transfer record twice during his first season up.

Yeah, but it's not quite the same is it? The money in the game now, to then, is beyond comparison. 

Saunders wasn't bothered about upsetting players and got them all giving 100% every game.  I think Dean has also struggled to do that as well.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on May 02, 2020, 11:27:44 PM
Quote from: Newby on May 02, 2020, 11:26:06 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on May 02, 2020, 11:22:35 PM
Quote from: Newby on May 02, 2020, 11:15:56 PM
Quote from: exiled on the wirral! on May 02, 2020, 07:29:51 PM
This thread especially over the last few pages epitomises what is wrong with the modern game..Saunders and Taylor struggled the year after promotion. How about at least give the guy the season to see he can emulate those greats before we try and coax Klopp from his current employer...FFS

Different era my friend and they didn't spend crazy money on new players when they came up.  I see nothing in Dean to show me that he can get the players pulling for him.  I think he lacks grip and failed to address the defensive midfield problems and defending.  I'd give him to the end of the season, stay up, or go down and he leaves.  If the comments from Wes Edens recently at the be believed, he will want bigger and better than Dean.  IMO, of course.

Ron Saunders broke our transfer record twice during his first season up.

Yeah, but it's not quite the same is it? The money in the game now, to then, is beyond comparison. 

Saunders wasn't bothered about upsetting players and got them all giving 100% every game.  I think Dean has also struggled to do that as well.

It's exactly the same. Big money for the time is big money regardless of how many noughts it has at the end.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on May 02, 2020, 11:30:05 PM
Are you saying Dean is as good a Manager as Saunders Dave? 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on May 02, 2020, 11:32:12 PM
Quote from: Newby on May 02, 2020, 11:30:05 PM
Are you saying Dean is as good a Manager as Saunders Dave? 

Did I say anything alluding to that?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on May 02, 2020, 11:34:07 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on May 02, 2020, 11:32:12 PM
Quote from: Newby on May 02, 2020, 11:30:05 PM
Are you saying Dean is as good a Manager as Saunders Dave? 

Did I say anything alluding to that?

Nope, it was a question.  I wish we had Saunders now.  Villa is ripe for the right type of Manager, with these owners. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on May 02, 2020, 11:37:09 PM
Of course Dean Smith isn't as good as Saunders. That would be like comparing Jack Grealish to Gordon Cowans. I'm not sure whether Saunders' style would be as effective now, but I'd love to see how Ron Atkinson would spend NSWE's money.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on May 02, 2020, 11:41:24 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on May 02, 2020, 11:37:09 PM
Of course Dean Smith isn't as good as Saunders. That would be like comparing Jack Grealish to Gordon Cowans. I'm not sure whether Saunders' style would be as effective now, but I'd love to see how Ron Atkinson would spend NSWE's money.

Oh jeez, that would be amazing.  To have that maverick type of character and imagination would be excellent. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on May 02, 2020, 11:46:33 PM
Quote from: Newby on May 02, 2020, 11:41:24 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on May 02, 2020, 11:37:09 PM
Of course Dean Smith isn't as good as Saunders. That would be like comparing Jack Grealish to Gordon Cowans. I'm not sure whether Saunders' style would be as effective now, but I'd love to see how Ron Atkinson would spend NSWE's money.

Oh jeez, that would be amazing.  To have that maverick type of character and imagination would be excellent. 

Terry Weir put it best - when Ron was around we got the publicity we deserve.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on May 03, 2020, 10:13:38 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on May 02, 2020, 11:46:33 PM
Quote from: Newby on May 02, 2020, 11:41:24 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on May 02, 2020, 11:37:09 PM
Of course Dean Smith isn't as good as Saunders. That would be like comparing Jack Grealish to Gordon Cowans. I'm not sure whether Saunders' style would be as effective now, but I'd love to see how Ron Atkinson would spend NSWE's money.

Oh jeez, that would be amazing.  To have that maverick type of character and imagination would be excellent. 

Terry Weir put it best - when Ron was around we got the publicity we deserve.

That's a great quote, and so true.

Wasn't it Taylor that recommended Ron as the man to take over from him? I wonder how things would have turned had he joined that summer instead.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on May 03, 2020, 10:25:23 AM
Bielsa and Mourinho are the closest in terms of being maverick.

I hope Smith becomes close to being as good as Saunders, with us.

I've just realised that I'm only 4 months younger than Dean Smith. Shit. It's still taking me time to adjust to being too old to play, now I'm the same age as the bloody  manager.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: RamboandBruno on May 03, 2020, 11:50:17 AM
Quote from: exiled on the wirral! on May 02, 2020, 07:29:51 PM
This thread especially over the last few pages epitomises what is wrong with the modern game..Saunders and Taylor struggled the year after promotion. How about at least give the guy the season to see he can emulate those greats before we try and coax Klopp from his current employer...FFS

I’ve been an advocate of keeping smith, partly because I believe he deserves the full season, partly because in the worst case scenario I think he could do a job back in the championship and partly because of what you mention in your post. We needed Liverpool to hammer West Ham in 89 to send them down and we stayed up by I think 1 point in Taylor’s first year in the top league after promotion. Season after we had a wobbly August and September and some people were calling for Taylor’s head, we nearly won the league that year and the rest is history.

I’m not saying Smith would achieve any of this of course, and even as big a supporter if you like, of smith, as I have been, I’ll admit after the Leicester game I thought we would looked down, with some players, notably Grealish looking liked they’d given up.

However, whether this season carries on in some farcical format or not, I don’t very much whether Smith will be going anywhere, unless we are relegated and that’s fine with me, I’m all for a bit of stability for a few years.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on May 03, 2020, 11:55:49 AM
He and we will come back from this better then we left it.

The likelihood is that the season will be scrapped and we'll get another crack, making this season effectively a dry run, we have time now maybe to do some work that wasn't afforded to us given the post promotion rush to build a new side.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on May 03, 2020, 02:13:26 PM
Actually an interesting comparison is actually when we came straight back up under SGT. We finished 17th and only won 9 games all season (one more than relegation season of 86-87). What was the mood like in the stands that year, confidence we'd get it right under Graham or lots of concern he'd proved an effective re-organiser of the club, got the club straight back up but that was perhaps the limits to his ability? Of course it then clicked into place, we finished 2nd and he got the England job.

Certainly don't expect DS to do half of that but perhaps shows patience and giving a manager opportunity to learn from a naive first season back in the top flight can sometimes work.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on May 03, 2020, 02:15:00 PM
Quote from: LeeB on May 03, 2020, 11:55:49 AM
He and we will come back from this better then we left it.

The likelihood is that the season will be scrapped and we'll get another crack, making this season effectively a dry run, we have time now maybe to do some work that wasn't afforded to us given the post promotion rush to build a new side.

I fall between two stalls here.  There is zero evidence that we were getting better as a side and arguably getting worse defensively, going from a minus 8 goal difference to minus 22 in the space of around 10 games.  Therefore, if the season gets scrapped, he gets another chance to bring in the players we really need, starting with a proper central midfielder who can dictate play and protect the defence.  If the season is scrapped, do we give Dean another chance or do we go out and get a better Manager who can bring in better players. Do we stick or do we show ambition and try to get to the next level?  We have to remember of course that even John Percy was saying that Dean had one game left before he gets ditched.  I really want Dean to work out but things have to change for the better.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on May 03, 2020, 02:20:38 PM
We need three players to give us a top half team I reckon (add in keeping Grealish). Experienced calm head CB alongside Mings (Southgate type), DM who can read the game and plug gaps left by our other CMs when they move forward (badly need another Townsend from somehwere) and a real quality wide player given how wildly inconsistant El Ghazi is.

We certainly shouldn't be signing another 7-8 players as that would defeat all logic given we have a decent sized squad already but half of them aren't good enough to be playing week in week out prem football currently.

Yes the full backs could be better aswell but you can't solve everything in one window. Get those three positions correct and we could have makings of another team that was starting to form in 2006 in MON's first season when Carew, Petrov and Young were all added through the year and were key in finishing 6th reguarly.

Despite how poor we've been at times this season, getting a free pass at staying up by the looks of it could be huge and we really need to play that card and not waste another opportunity.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on May 03, 2020, 02:22:08 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on May 03, 2020, 02:13:26 PM
Actually an interesting comparison is actually when we came straight back up under SGT. We finished 17th and only won 9 games all season (one more than relegation season of 86-87). What was the mood like in the stands that year, confidence we'd get it right under Graham or lots of concern he'd proved an effective re-organiser of the club, got the club straight back up but that was perhaps the limits to his ability? Of course it then clicked into place, we finished 2nd and he got the England job.

Certainly don't expect DS to do half of that but perhaps shows patience and giving a manager opportunity to learn from a naive first season back in the top flight can sometimes work.


Without looking up any stats my general recollection of 1988-1989 was that we were pretty solid up to the new year but we were pretty poor from the turn of the year till the end of the season. It looked grim from March right up until the last game.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on May 03, 2020, 02:23:39 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on May 03, 2020, 02:13:26 PM
Actually an interesting comparison is actually when we came straight back up under SGT. We finished 17th and only won 9 games all season (one more than relegation season of 86-87). What was the mood like in the stands that year, confidence we'd get it right under Graham or lots of concern he'd proved an effective re-organiser of the club, got the club straight back up but that was perhaps the limits to his ability? Of course it then clicked into place, we finished 2nd and he got the England job.

Certainly don't expect DS to do half of that but perhaps shows patience and giving a manager opportunity to learn from a naive first season back in the top flight can sometimes work.
I think there was a realization that the club had yet again fallen into a mess.
Sir GT offered a glimmer of hope and he was very good at communicating to the fans the  challenge we faced. I think he massively over achieved in his 3rd season as I don’t think many were thinking we would be challenging. I certainly didn’t.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on May 03, 2020, 02:52:12 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on May 03, 2020, 02:23:39 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on May 03, 2020, 02:13:26 PM
Actually an interesting comparison is actually when we came straight back up under SGT. We finished 17th and only won 9 games all season (one more than relegation season of 86-87). What was the mood like in the stands that year, confidence we'd get it right under Graham or lots of concern he'd proved an effective re-organiser of the club, got the club straight back up but that was perhaps the limits to his ability? Of course it then clicked into place, we finished 2nd and he got the England job.

Certainly don't expect DS to do half of that but perhaps shows patience and giving a manager opportunity to learn from a naive first season back in the top flight can sometimes work.
I think there was a realization that the club had yet again fallen into a mess.
Sir GT offered a glimmer of hope and he was very good at communicating to the fans the  challenge we faced. I think he massively over achieved in his 3rd season as I don’t think many were thinking we would be challenging. I certainly didn’t.

I'm sure I read somewhere that he said his biggest achievement wasn't promotion or runners-up, it was avoiding relegation because the squad wasn't ready. Certainly, once MacInally's goals dried up post-Christmas, we struggled bigstyle. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on May 03, 2020, 03:18:20 PM
Remember going to Derby in April with Mark Lillus and Steve Sims starting, against a good Derby side, thanks to injuries.

We weren't ready then, according to one of our greatest managers, and he'd had two pre-seasons with us.

Deano had come in mid-season, rescued it, and then had more to do with less time, due to the late play off final.
He deserves more time.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dcdavecollett on May 03, 2020, 03:19:01 PM
Ron and Graham didn't have to deal with 25 players leaving the club at the end of their promotion seasons!!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on May 03, 2020, 03:28:40 PM
Quote from: LeeB on May 03, 2020, 03:18:20 PM
Remember going to Derby in April with Mark Lillus and Steve Sims starting, against a good Derby side, thanks to injuries.

We weren't ready then, according to one of our greatest managers, and he'd had two pre-seasons with us.

Deano had come in mid-season, rescued it, and then had more to do with less time, due to the late play off final.
He deserves more time.



It looked grim for us after that Derby game. Darrell Duffy made his one and only appearance for us that day. After that his next club was Moor Green.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on May 03, 2020, 04:46:03 PM
Quote from: dcdavecollett on May 03, 2020, 03:19:01 PM
Ron and Graham didn't have to deal with 25 players leaving the club at the end of their promotion seasons!!

And don't forget, you could still buy and sell during the season then, not the mad rush we have now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on May 03, 2020, 04:47:56 PM
Quote from: Damo70 on May 03, 2020, 03:28:40 PM
Quote from: LeeB on May 03, 2020, 03:18:20 PM
Remember going to Derby in April with Mark Lillus and Steve Sims starting, against a good Derby side, thanks to injuries.

We weren't ready then, according to one of our greatest managers, and he'd had two pre-seasons with us.

Deano had come in mid-season, rescued it, and then had more to do with less time, due to the late play off final.
He deserves more time.



It looked grim for us after that Derby game. Darrell Duffy made his one and only appearance for us that day. After that his next club was Moor Green.

Christ on a bike, I'd completely forgotten about him.

It was grim, was the West Ham home defeat before or after?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on May 03, 2020, 09:11:39 PM
Quote from: LeeB on May 03, 2020, 04:47:56 PM
Quote from: Damo70 on May 03, 2020, 03:28:40 PM
Quote from: LeeB on May 03, 2020, 03:18:20 PM
Remember going to Derby in April with Mark Lillus and Steve Sims starting, against a good Derby side, thanks to injuries.

We weren't ready then, according to one of our greatest managers, and he'd had two pre-seasons with us.

Deano had come in mid-season, rescued it, and then had more to do with less time, due to the late play off final.
He deserves more time.



It looked grim for us after that Derby game. Darrell Duffy made his one and only appearance for us that day. After that his next club was Moor Green.

Christ on a bike, I'd completely forgotten about him.

It was grim, was the West Ham home defeat before or after?

Six weeks before. Derby was our last away game. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on May 03, 2020, 09:34:32 PM
Darrell Duffy and Dean Glover...sounds like we were plucking names from the cast of Emmerdale in the late 80's! At least Alexander Tonev and, er, Niklas Helenius had an exotic sound to them 25 years later...
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sid1964 on May 04, 2020, 07:28:24 AM
i remember going to Norwich away (could have been April?)and drawing 2-2 - Mcinally scored both?, but we were very poor - good day out though.

i also remember I had to work late and listening to Liverpool beating West Ham in midweek to ensure we stayed up

How old am i!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on May 04, 2020, 12:12:59 PM
Quote from: LeeB on May 03, 2020, 03:18:20 PM
Remember going to Derby in April with Mark Lillus and Steve Sims starting, against a good Derby side, thanks to injuries.

We weren't ready then, according to one of our greatest managers, and he'd had two pre-seasons with us.

Deano had come in mid-season, rescued it, and then had more to do with less time, due to the late play off final.
He deserves more time.

Absolutely.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on May 04, 2020, 12:26:58 PM
I always assumed final day was all games kicking off at same time as happens now (and I assume 1982). Strange given what is usually at stake on final day with relegation.

Was reading yesterday about Sunderland getting shafted by Coventry and Jimmy Hill in the 70s because they delayed the game and then with Sunderland finishing knew 2-2 was enough and Jimmy Hill put it out on the scoreboard!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on May 04, 2020, 12:28:12 PM
I think ITV moved the Liverpool v Arsenal game to the last game of the season when it was the title decider, too. But, yeah, it was quite common for teams to have games in hand at the end of the season. That same season we had to wait for a couple of West Ham games after our final match to find out whether we had stayed up. There is also the famous case of Derby finding out they had won the league in the early seventies while on holiday in Majorca.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on May 04, 2020, 12:32:55 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on May 04, 2020, 12:26:58 PM
I always assumed final day was all games kicking off at same time as happens now (and I assume 1982). Strange given what is usually at stake on final day with relegation.

Was reading yesterday about Sunderland getting shafted by Coventry and Jimmy Hill in the 70s because they delayed the game and then with Sunderland finishing knew 2-2 was enough and Jimmy Hill put it out on the scoreboard!

It's a recent thing. In 1985 Coventry had three games left when Norwich had played all theirs and had to win them all to stay up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Exeter 77 on May 04, 2020, 12:41:34 PM
Wasn't Liverpool's game against West Ham later because it was originally postponed because of Hillsborough?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: WarszaVillan on May 04, 2020, 12:48:06 PM
Ipswich still had to play two games I think after we won the league and if they had beaten Middlesbrough we'd have been sitting around waiting for them to play their games. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Exeter 77 on May 04, 2020, 12:59:06 PM
Quote from: WarszaVillan82 on May 04, 2020, 12:48:06 PM
Ipswich still had to play two games I think after we won the league and if they had beaten Middlesbrough we'd have been sitting around waiting for them to play their games. 
Just one. They lost 2-3 at home to Southampton.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on May 23, 2020, 07:43:33 AM
I'd love to give this guy the job ... probably not going to ahppen but it would be fantastic, given the job he did at Sourhampton and Spudds.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/may/22/mauricio-pochettino-jose-mourinho-tottenham-spurs-interview
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT on May 23, 2020, 08:25:02 AM
Quote from: sid1964 on May 04, 2020, 07:28:24 AM
i remember going to Norwich away (could have been April?)and drawing 2-2 - Mcinally scored both?, but we were very poor - good day out though.

i also remember I had to work late and listening to Liverpool beating West Ham in midweek to ensure we stayed up

How old am i!

We decided to go and stood on the Kop.

Half time was 1-1 and a lad in front said “Bet the Villa fans are shitting it now”. I tapped him on the shoulder and said “We are mate”.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on May 23, 2020, 10:17:56 AM
Quote from: Mister E on May 23, 2020, 07:43:33 AM
I'd love to give this guy the job ... probably not going to ahppen but it would be fantastic, given the job he did at Sourhampton and Spudds.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/may/22/mauricio-pochettino-jose-mourinho-tottenham-spurs-interview


Yes please.  Ain't happening though.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tony scott on May 23, 2020, 10:30:17 AM
We have more chance of winning 9 out of the next ten games, the project he’s hinting at is  quite likely Nufc imo.


Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on May 23, 2020, 05:26:44 PM
Quote from: tony scott on May 23, 2020, 10:30:17 AM
We have more chance of winning 9 out of the next ten games, the project he’s hinting at is  quite likely Nufc imo.
Well, that is rumoured in the UK press.
Why not Villa, if he wants a project?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tony scott on May 23, 2020, 09:54:24 PM
I just don’t think we’re ambitious enough. I love the club, but to attract him you have to offer him the future resources he would expect I just don’t see us doing it , without the big negative of the position we’re in, I would love to be wrong.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ez on May 23, 2020, 10:10:40 PM
Quote from: tony scott on May 23, 2020, 09:54:24 PM
I just don’t think we’re ambitious enough. I love the club, but to attract him you have to offer him the future resources he would expect I just don’t see us doing it , without the big negative of the position we’re in, I would love to be wrong.

I agree.  The owners have made noises about how ambitious they are and the desire for champions league football but its worn thin on me. Would any other club with champions league ambitions leave Dean Smith in place and give him a new contract.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: nigel on May 23, 2020, 10:21:45 PM
Quote from: tony scott on May 23, 2020, 09:54:24 PM
I just don’t think we’re ambitious enough. I love the club, but to attract him you have to offer him the future resources he would expect I just don’t see us doing it , without the big negative of the position we’re in, I would love to be wrong.

I think our owners are in a position to offer anything he wants.
You are right, though, our league position is a downside
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on May 23, 2020, 10:54:22 PM
With £200m at stake they certainly seem to have a lot of faith in Dean. I'm not sure I'd be as patient but I do admire their loyalty.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Footy-Vill on May 24, 2020, 12:05:46 AM
I think it's interests of fairness and sporting chance for Dean Smith to have longer and definitely remain whenever season takes off again.
He's the coach who has taken us up to the premier league it's only a year ago .
Maybe , which is understood , during these times people forget that and just remember recent history . Like the 4-0 trouncing at Leicester. But let's not forget the league cup final And also Smith signed an extended contract.

Think he's not only capable but very determined to see Villa stay up and us progress.
I rather have him for now and see if he can get us over the line.
Every other avenues are a risk especially given this extended break.
And if Villa do go down Smith is proven in the championship and can certainly take us back up with a squad that will have grown with experience.
I imagine Dean Smith has got some great ideas on how Villa can win matches and would be looking to implement his footballing strategies again in these small group training sessions.
Smith all about learning , teaching and coaching good football philosophy .
Key to us staying up is Deano getting his message understood. I don't see him making same mistakes now with team and tactics he made before lockdown.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tony scott on May 24, 2020, 04:18:37 AM
Good post, just out of interest if Pochettino became available to us, would you not want us approach him ?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Footy-Vill on May 24, 2020, 10:26:58 AM
Quote from: tony scott on May 24, 2020, 04:18:37 AM
Good post, just out of interest if Pochettino became available to us, would you not want us approach him ?


If we had the Pochettino who was the vibrant coach as at Southampton then yes. Perfect.
Development of academy players and good attacking competitive football.

Bu I think this way of him has gone and spurs job changed him.
He was a coach who could get unexpected results with Southampton.
Then he just became a coach who got expected results for a consistent period with spurs and never had the edge to go to next level.

I don't have much impression he would be any measure significantly better than Deano or some other coaches who could win a match more than villa expect too.

With Spurs they hardly showed up away from home against the big clubs - he's a coach who lost the ability he had in the premier league to win unexpectedly.
The away record in his time at spurs against big 6 was shocking for a competing club.
What he did go because of both the squad of players and his tactical set up was get the players to win games.

Spurs reached their peak though with him as a manager . Poch ran out if ideas and then went spectacularly stale.
They displayed that shocking form and performances in many away matches after a while and not just in the big six fixtures..
Pochettino coaching actually went from being the best performing Premier League away team to the worst and was a major reason and indication to Poch being sacked.

I think that gave an indication of Pochettino.
Maybe circumstances of having his head turned by PSG , Real Madrid , Man Utd was distracting.
But to be a really good and skilled coach in his position with his resources at Spurs he would have won a trophy.
He be a manager outside of cup competition and one off cup matches to win when not expected .
Heck that performance by Spurs in the European champions League final was embrassing. For all the good they did to get there.

In our circumstances he could bring something of course. But has he got some ambitious nature above his station ?
Like he thinks now he should be somewhere or wants to be some where with a very decent chance of a trophy. Or is he holding out for the financial aspect like Newcastle for a job security and big resources?

Is he really good enough for Real Madrid . PSG -probably where he's best suited ,and having played for them too is a fit. A position where he has great resources would allow him to give him reputation of being a success in at least winning domestic titles. However I don't know if they totally trust he could deliver the European trophy.

I'm not any more confident of that man in charge of villa than with Deano in charge during this time.
I just think Pochettino experience is actually a hindrances to how he now coaches. And that he doesn't have the loyalty  that Dean Smith undoubtedly does

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on May 24, 2020, 03:10:20 PM
Quote from: Vill I An on May 24, 2020, 10:26:58 AM
If we had the Pochettino who was the vibrant coach as at Southampton then yes. Perfect.
Development of academy players and good attacking competitive football.
But I think this way of him has gone and spurs job changed him.
He was a coach who could get unexpected results with Southampton.
Then he just became a coach who got expected results for a consistent period with spurs and never had the edge to go to next level.
....
I'm not any more confident of that man in charge of villa than with Deano in charge during this time.
I just think Pochettino experience is actually a hindrances to how he now coaches. And that he doesn't have the loyalty  that Dean Smith undoubtedly does
So, at Spurs he finished third, second, third and fourth in seasons two to five of his tenure; and got them to the EuroChump Final, losing to Liverpool (widely regarded as one of the best teams in the world at the moment).
He worked within the constraints placed upon him by Levy and obviously became very frustrated at the lack of comparable investment last summer that would have enabled the team to continue competing at the top of the table.

If our owners could persuade him to take on the Villa project, we'd be crazy not to bring him in ... and, his appointment would give the club a little more prestige in the goldfish bowl that is top-quality professional football.

For someone who clearly reads alot around football, Footy, your blindspots* are interesting to note.



* we all have them, in different measure.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on May 24, 2020, 03:25:08 PM
I'd jump at the chance to get him in.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on May 24, 2020, 03:35:17 PM
When you look at his transfer budget at Spurs compared to other top teams, he did a great job in my view. We would be nuts not to get him if it was feasible.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on May 24, 2020, 03:37:10 PM
Quote from: Legion on May 24, 2020, 03:25:08 PM
I'd jump at the chance to get him in.

Ditto.  I'd do it today.  There is generally no loyalty in football and Villa hanging on to Dean, as grateful as we are to him for getting us up, is likely to mean we go straight back down and lose our best players.  Dean has shown he's limited and needs longer lower down the pyramid.  One day, he might come back and be brilliant. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villa Lew on May 24, 2020, 04:24:15 PM
Can't think of a better possible candidate for the job.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Footy-Vill on May 24, 2020, 06:04:00 PM
Supposes he does come.
And how long would expect him to stay if he did manage to work his Southampton type magic and some early spurs form and get us competing beyond expectations .

Some other club will come in.
And he would just go and not hang around.
Whereas Dean wouldn't walk out on us
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on May 24, 2020, 06:10:52 PM
Quote from: Vill I An on May 24, 2020, 06:04:00 PM
Supposes he does come.
And how long would expect him to stay if he did manage to work his Southampton type magic and some early spurs form and get us competing beyond expectations .

Some other club will come in.
And he would just go and not hang around.
Whereas Dean wouldn't walk out on us
I would be delighted if he Poch, moved us to a position where we are competing at such a level that clubs covet our manager.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Footy-Vill on May 24, 2020, 09:12:19 PM
I've edited this to keep it simple :

Dean Smith in conversation
https://leadersinsport.com/performance/podcast-at-home-with-leaders-dean-smith/

Up the Villa.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on May 24, 2020, 09:14:09 PM
Wow.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on May 24, 2020, 09:15:27 PM
The privilege is strong in this one.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kieron on May 24, 2020, 09:20:00 PM
Footy, would you mind doing the majority of us a favour, please?

Give one of the mods a nudge and see if they'll allow you to make a thread of your own, that only you can post in, and the only place that you can post in. That way, I can be sure that I avoid and don't see your utter shite in and amongst the threads that I like to read through.

Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on May 25, 2020, 02:01:32 PM
Quote from: Vill I An on May 24, 2020, 09:12:19 PM
I've edited this to keep it simple :

Dean Smith in conversation
https://leadersinsport.com/performance/podcast-at-home-with-leaders-dean-smith/

Up the Villa.
Dean Smith always comes across very well, and he clearly works hard to maintain his knowledge and skills.
His biggest challenge is time: he does not have the time to rely entirely on his preferred modus operandi. He says - on this podcast - that he prefers players to evolve and find their own way of developing themselves, guided by him: we'll go down if he doesn't take a more hands-on approach. Evolved development is for the time when we've established our Premier league status.

Thanks for sharing - really interesting.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Footy-Vill on May 25, 2020, 02:08:52 PM
Quote from: Mister E on May 25, 2020, 02:01:32 PM
Quote from: Vill I An on May 24, 2020, 09:12:19 PM
I've edited this to keep it simple :

Dean Smith in conversation
https://leadersinsport.com/performance/podcast-at-home-with-leaders-dean-smith/

Up the Villa.
Dean Smith always comes across very well, and he clearly works hard to maintain his knowledge and skills.
His biggest challenge is time: he does not have the time to rely entirely on his preferred modus operandi. He says - on this podcast - that he prefers players to evolve and find their own way of developing themselves, guided by him: we'll go down if he doesn't take a more hands-on approach. Evolved development is for the time when we've established our Premier league status.

Thanks for sharing - really interesting.

My pleasure .great listen isn't it!
Have a good bank holiday I hope you can enjoy the sunshine.thanks. (if it's safe and want to)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ASHTONVILLA on May 25, 2020, 02:18:09 PM
I wish that we had binned Smith off when we had chance before this lockdown issue. It is probably too late now and we will have to see if he can get a tune out of his squad to save us. We can't possibly be any worse than we were before lockdown, as we were nailed on for relegation before Corona Virus saved us.

Smith is likeable but I would have zero confidence in him getting us back up is a team sans Grealish, and not much confidence in us improving if we stay up. He has had us playing awful football and some of the most gutless team performances I have ever witnessed. He has spent a lot of money on a squad that lacks any balance and blew a fortune on a truly terrible centre forward.

If we could attract pochettino then we should do so without hesitation.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Footy-Vill on May 25, 2020, 03:00:22 PM
Let's be fair to Deano he brought Grealish game on heaps and bounds since he's been here . The high performance levels achieved by Jack are a result of Dean Smith as coach.
Smith and his way of coaching has undoubtedly really developed Grealish on field game.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on May 25, 2020, 04:31:29 PM
Quote from: Vill I An on May 25, 2020, 03:00:22 PM
Let's be fair to Deano he brought Grealish game on heaps and bounds since he's been here . The high performance levels achieved by Jack are a result of Dean Smith as coach.
Smith and his way of coaching has undoubtedly really developed Grealish on field game.


It really hasn't.  Grealish was this good under Sherwood. Grealish is quality, with or without Dean Smith.  If Dean is that great, why are we a one man team?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on May 25, 2020, 04:52:36 PM
Quote from: Mister E on May 25, 2020, 02:01:32 PM
Quote from: Vill I An on May 24, 2020, 09:12:19 PM
I've edited this to keep it simple :

Dean Smith in conversation
https://leadersinsport.com/performance/podcast-at-home-with-leaders-dean-smith/

Up the Villa.
Dean Smith always comes across very well, and he clearly works hard to maintain his knowledge and skills.
His biggest challenge is time: he does not have the time to rely entirely on his preferred modus operandi. He says - on this podcast - that he prefers players to evolve and find their own way of developing themselves, guided by him: we'll go down if he doesn't take a more hands-on approach. Evolved development is for the time when we've established our Premier league status.

Thanks for sharing - really interesting.

I've added the link to our FB Page. Cheers.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Footy-Vill on May 25, 2020, 05:00:36 PM
Quote from: Newby on May 25, 2020, 04:31:29 PM
Quote from: Vill I An on May 25, 2020, 03:00:22 PM
Let's be fair to Deano he brought Grealish game on heaps and bounds since he's been here . The high performance levels achieved by Jack are a result of Dean Smith as coach.
Smith and his way of coaching has undoubtedly really developed Grealish on field game.


It really hasn't.  Grealish was this good under Sherwood. Grealish is quality, with or without Dean Smith.  If Dean is that great, why are we a one man team?

Dean Smith made Grealish captain.
He saw something .

And for me Smith is far superior to people like this Cummings chap in integrity and good thinking  . Wish he was advising the government !
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on May 26, 2020, 06:47:07 AM
We all "saw something" in Jack Grealish long before Smith rocked up.  Legion was the first poster to flag up Jack's ability six years ago on this forum.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: DB on May 26, 2020, 10:02:55 AM
He saw something??? Wasn't difficult, all Smith has done has made him captain, which should be Mings IMO.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: frank black on May 26, 2020, 10:22:30 AM
Quote from: DB on May 26, 2020, 10:02:55 AM
He saw something??? Wasn't difficult, all Smith has done has made him captain, which should be Mings IMO.

I’ve been very disappointed with Tyrone, but that can be said for the rest of the team TBF.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on May 26, 2020, 10:28:36 AM
Quote from: ASHTONVILLA on May 25, 2020, 02:18:09 PM
I wish that we had binned Smith off when we had chance before this lockdown issue. It is probably too late now and we will have to see if he can get a tune out of his squad to save us. We can't possibly be any worse than we were before lockdown, as we were nailed on for relegation before Corona Virus saved us.

Smith is likeable but I would have zero confidence in him getting us back up is a team sans Grealish, and not much confidence in us improving if we stay up. He has had us playing awful football and some of the most gutless team performances I have ever witnessed. He has spent a lot of money on a squad that lacks any balance and blew a fortune on a truly terrible centre forward.

If we could attract pochettino then we should do so without hesitation.
Some of what you say is true, but I really don't think it's fair blaming him for the transfer business.  Suso has to take that one.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: old man villa fan on May 26, 2020, 11:04:08 AM
Quote from: chrisw1 on May 26, 2020, 10:28:36 AM
Quote from: ASHTONVILLA on May 25, 2020, 02:18:09 PM
I wish that we had binned Smith off when we had chance before this lockdown issue. It is probably too late now and we will have to see if he can get a tune out of his squad to save us. We can't possibly be any worse than we were before lockdown, as we were nailed on for relegation before Corona Virus saved us.

Smith is likeable but I would have zero confidence in him getting us back up is a team sans Grealish, and not much confidence in us improving if we stay up. He has had us playing awful football and some of the most gutless team performances I have ever witnessed. He has spent a lot of money on a squad that lacks any balance and blew a fortune on a truly terrible centre forward.

If we could attract pochettino then we should do so without hesitation.
Some of what you say is true, but I really don't think it's fair blaming him for the transfer business.  Suso has to take that one.

All clubs make mistakes on transfers.  I think the blame should be pointed at the amount of players that needed to be brought in over such a short space of time.  It would have been nice to say that the Club spent the last 3 months of the season looking at possible additions but, in reality, we were so far back that the focus was getting promotion, not what we would do if we got promotion.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on May 26, 2020, 11:36:09 AM
re the earlier discussion regarding Poch.  In princial I'd definitely take him.  But I never thought we would be in the running for him even if we were talking about a normal end to the season.  It would be incredibly dificult for any manager to take over a team and finish off this car crash of a season, so I don't really think it's feasible to make a change in the current circumstances even if the Board wanted to.

If Poch was available in the summer I'd definitely take him.  But if we do finish well and survive, assuming Poch isn't available I wouldn't be in a rush to replace Deano unless an outstanding candidate became available.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OzVilla on May 26, 2020, 11:40:28 AM
If we went down I think they’ll keep Smith for the campaign to get back up. However if we stay up I can see them looking to upgrade. Funny old world isn’t it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KevinGage on May 26, 2020, 11:46:09 AM
Quote from: OzVilla on May 26, 2020, 11:40:28 AM
If we went down I think they’ll keep Smith for the campaign to get back up. However if we stay up I can see them looking to upgrade. Funny old world isn’t it.

I'd go with that as well.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nunkin1965 on May 26, 2020, 12:06:10 PM
I think that’s how I see it.
If the mission is completed then Villa may well look elsewhere regarding a manager.
Drop down to the Championship and it’s still Smith in charge for me.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on May 26, 2020, 01:03:16 PM
Quote from: OzVilla on May 26, 2020, 11:40:28 AM
If we went down I think they’ll keep Smith for the campaign to get back up. However if we stay up I can see them looking to upgrade. Funny old world isn’t it.

Probably likely but he'd surely be sacked if we lost 7-8 of our last 10 and went down with a real whimper. It was looking a big possibility before the break considering we hadn't picked up a point since January 21st and it's not like the fixtures were even that tough, will be plenty of tougher games when it restarts so we need to show real physical and mental improvements in the team.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on May 26, 2020, 02:36:58 PM
If we go down, he has to go. You can't relegate a club of our stature and stay on, we aren't some pointless Albion-type team.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: old man villa fan on May 26, 2020, 04:37:15 PM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on May 26, 2020, 02:36:58 PM
If we go down, he has to go. You can't relegate a club of our stature and stay on, we aren't some pointless Albion-type team.

I think you always have to look at it objectively and ask yourself the question, can the manager take you to the next level?  If the answer is yes, he stay, if no, he goes.  Sacking of a manager should not be punishment for relegation.  Surviving by a point compared with being relegated by a point could be just down to luck/bad luck in one game, should not be the difference between being retained or sacked.

The above is a simplified view as there are many factors that have to be considered but you should always be looking to the future, not the past.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Footy-Vill on May 26, 2020, 05:59:56 PM
Quote from: brian green on May 26, 2020, 06:47:07 AM
We all "saw something" in Jack Grealish long before Smith rocked up.  Legion was the first poster to flag up Jack's ability six years ago on this forum.

Sorry I meaning that Smith saw something in him, Jack,  to be a captain. Previous managers never made him this so thought quite insight by Dean
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on May 26, 2020, 07:35:53 PM
Quote from: Vill I An on May 26, 2020, 05:59:56 PM
Quote from: brian green on May 26, 2020, 06:47:07 AM
We all "saw something" in Jack Grealish long before Smith rocked up.  Legion was the first poster to flag up Jack's ability six years ago on this forum.

Sorry I meaning that Smith saw something in him, Jack,  to be a captain. Previous managers never made him this so thought quite insight by Dean

He made a Villa fan Captain, yes, but perhaps to keep him calm because he's known for being a wide-boy, which is why he broke lockdown and you wanted him hung at that time.  Don't worry about the double standards, I don't think anyone noticed!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on May 26, 2020, 07:40:29 PM
Quote from: old man villa fan on May 26, 2020, 04:37:15 PM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on May 26, 2020, 02:36:58 PM
If we go down, he has to go. You can't relegate a club of our stature and stay on, we aren't some pointless Albion-type team.

I think you always have to look at it objectively and ask yourself the question, can the manager take you to the next level?  If the answer is yes, he stay, if no, he goes.  Sacking of a manager should not be punishment for relegation.  Surviving by a point compared with being relegated by a point could be just down to luck/bad luck in one game, should not be the difference between being retained or sacked.

The above is a simplified view as there are many factors that have to be considered but you should always be looking to the future, not the past.

Ordinarily, I'd agree, but the fact that we have got worse as the season has gone on, I think Dean is out of his depth and clearly is not getting the best out of the players. We haven't been relegated yet but Smith smacks of Graham Turner to me.  I agree with others, if he takes us down, ditch him.  Others who are saying that Suso should go too, fair enough, but I doubt Suso acted alone during the signings of Jota, Konsa and Drinkwater.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Richard E on May 26, 2020, 07:53:17 PM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on May 26, 2020, 02:36:58 PM
If we go down, he has to go. You can't relegate a club of our stature and stay on, we aren't some pointless Albion-type team.

Is the right answer.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: curiousorange on May 26, 2020, 10:02:18 PM
Mad report doing the rounds that Savo Milosevic will be coming in to manage us at the end of the season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on May 26, 2020, 10:05:43 PM
Is it April the first?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: curiousorange on May 26, 2020, 10:06:52 PM
Quote from: Legion on May 26, 2020, 10:05:43 PM
Is it April the first?

Somebody's had a heavy Bank Holiday.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nunkin1965 on May 26, 2020, 10:31:31 PM
Many of you guys are completely and utterly on another planet in comparison to me.

But I have managed over the last few days to dust off mine and my lads mountain bikes and got out into the beautiful and fresh air.

Cycling for me is tough anyway as although I am still able to work I suffer from Rheumatoid Arthritis which which affects my hands (Amongst other bits!) therefore it’s tough to properly grip handlebars and operate brakes.
Are there any options for me to add a bit more intensity?

On a side note RA is a pain in the fucking ass. Flare Ups appear randomly and after it being in my life for the best part of 40 years I’m a little pissed.


Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on May 26, 2020, 10:53:36 PM
I think somebody's been at Nunkin's venge.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on May 26, 2020, 11:34:19 PM
Quote from: Nunkin1965 on May 26, 2020, 10:31:31 PM
Many of you guys are completely and utterly on another planet in comparison to me.

But I have managed over the last few days to dust off mine and my lads mountain bikes and got out into the beautiful and fresh air.

Cycling for me is tough anyway as although I am still able to work I suffer from Rheumatoid Arthritis which which affects my hands (Amongst other bits!) therefore it’s tough to properly grip handlebars and operate brakes.
Are there any options for me to add a bit more intensity?

On a side note RA is a pain in the fucking ass. Flare Ups appear randomly and after it being in my life for the best part of 40 years I’m a little pissed.




Couldn't agree more pal, Smith Out!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on May 27, 2020, 01:31:46 AM
Quote from: kieron on May 24, 2020, 09:20:00 PM
Footy, would you mind doing the majority of us a favour, please?

Give one of the mods a nudge and see if they'll allow you to make a thread of your own, that only you can post in, and the only place that you can post in. That way, I can be sure that I avoid and don't see your utter shite in and amongst the threads that I like to read through.

Thanks in advance.

No more of this, please.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on May 27, 2020, 03:05:28 AM
Quote from: Nunkin1965 on May 26, 2020, 10:31:31 PM
Many of you guys are completely and utterly on another planet in comparison to me.

But I have managed over the last few days to dust off mine and my lads mountain bikes and got out into the beautiful and fresh air.

Cycling for me is tough anyway as although I am still able to work I suffer from Rheumatoid Arthritis which which affects my hands (Amongst other bits!) therefore it’s tough to properly grip handlebars and operate brakes.
Are there any options for me to add a bit more intensity?

On a side note RA is a pain in the fucking ass. Flare Ups appear randomly and after it being in my life for the best part of 40 years I’m a little pissed.

You make some good points but, seriously, "ass"?

That's undermined your whole argument and I can't take your managerial opinions seriously anymore.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ez on May 27, 2020, 12:00:00 PM
Quote from: KevinGage on May 26, 2020, 11:46:09 AM
Quote from: OzVilla on May 26, 2020, 11:40:28 AM
If we went down I think they’ll keep Smith for the campaign to get back up. However if we stay up I can see them looking to upgrade. Funny old world isn’t it.

I'd go with that as well.

Trouble is if he gets us back up he'll get another free pass for the following season regardless of results.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on May 27, 2020, 01:45:11 PM
Quote from: ez on May 27, 2020, 12:00:00 PM
Quote from: KevinGage on May 26, 2020, 11:46:09 AM
Quote from: OzVilla on May 26, 2020, 11:40:28 AM
If we went down I think they’ll keep Smith for the campaign to get back up. However if we stay up I can see them looking to upgrade. Funny old world isn’t it.

I'd go with that as well.

Trouble is if he gets us back up he'll get another free pass for the following season regardless of results.

He wouldn't. We'd have many more transfer windows and also would know what is required to do better in premier league e.g. don't spend vast majority of budget on players under the age of 23 who have minimal levels of experience in top leagues.

If we go down I'm expecting us to seriously challenge for top 2 given we'd have a stronger squad than 2016 and wouldn't be as much rebuilding to do.

I'd hate to see it but if we're miles off that Dean Smith will be getting the Bruce treatment by October although hopefully no cabbages will be hurt in the process.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on May 27, 2020, 03:29:40 PM
If we went down several key players would surely leave and there is no guarantee that those who stay will set the Championship alight. Some teams come down from the Premier League and look too good for the Championship from day one. Others struggle to dominate in such a dog eat dog league.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on May 27, 2020, 03:39:11 PM
Quote from: Damo70 on May 27, 2020, 03:29:40 PM
If we went down several key players would surely leave and there is no guarantee that those who stay will set the Championship alight. Some teams come down from the Premier League and look too good for the Championship from day one. Others struggle to dominate in such a dog eat dog league.

We will just sign players required for that level (and hopefully above) when that happens. I certainly don't expect Jack to stay and one of Mings/McGinn will also likely leave but to me a spine of Heaton- new CB (let's say Pontus Jansson)- McGinn-El Ghazi-Samatta looks better than what we went down with last time.

We signed players of calibre of Snodgrass, John Terry and Abraham last time down there (arguably better than what we've come up with in premier league) and everyone likes these owners so not sure why we couldn't attract as good calibre again.

Add in Kodjia, Adomah, Jedinak, Chester who were all signed in last week of 2016 window and they were all with us when we went up this time last year although for various reasons they couldn't give much in the premier league.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kieron on May 27, 2020, 04:09:31 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on May 27, 2020, 01:31:46 AM
Quote from: kieron on May 24, 2020, 09:20:00 PM
Footy, would you mind doing the majority of us a favour, please?

Give one of the mods a nudge and see if they'll allow you to make a thread of your own, that only you can post in, and the only place that you can post in. That way, I can be sure that I avoid and don't see your utter shite in and amongst the threads that I like to read through.

Thanks in advance.

No more of this, please.


Aww, I did say please and thanks though.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Richard E on May 27, 2020, 09:58:49 PM
The club have just announced that Dean Smith’s dad has passed away.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dave P on May 27, 2020, 09:59:56 PM
That’s so sad. Heart goes out to his family.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: MoetVillan on May 27, 2020, 10:00:27 PM
Terrible news. All our love Dean
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on May 27, 2020, 10:00:57 PM
Very sad news

Quote
The Aston Villa Family are saddened to announce that Ron Smith, the father of our current Head Coach Dean, has passed away at the age of 79.
 
Ron, who had recently been living in a care home after being diagnosed with dementia six years ago, contracted Coronavirus four weeks ago and after a short spell in hospital passed away with his family at his side.
 
A lifelong supporter, Ron was a steward at Villa Park for many years and passed on his love of the club down to his children.
 
As well as being a regular at home games, Ron was also there to witness that greatest of days in May 1982 when Villa lifted the European Cup in Rotterdam.
 
The thoughts of everyone at the football club are currently with Dean and his family at this most distressing of times and would kindly ask for the family’s privacy to be respected.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave shelley on May 27, 2020, 10:03:18 PM
Condolences to all the Smith family and particularly Dean.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 27, 2020, 10:03:55 PM
RIP, thoughts with Dean and his family.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lizz on May 27, 2020, 10:05:10 PM
Condolences to the family, such sad news.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on May 27, 2020, 10:07:27 PM
So sad, thoughts to Dean and family. RIP.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on May 27, 2020, 10:08:34 PM
RIP.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: BC Villain on May 27, 2020, 10:11:15 PM
Very poignant that a year ago today, Dean talked about visiting his father and telling him he'd be a Premier League manager when he saw him next.  RIP Ron. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: wozwebs on May 27, 2020, 10:13:34 PM
A year to the day of his sons triumph at Wembley. Very sad. RIP, HEITS
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan For Life on May 27, 2020, 10:14:18 PM
RIP Mr Smith and condolences to your family.

HEITS
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on May 27, 2020, 10:14:43 PM
Very sad.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT on May 27, 2020, 10:20:41 PM
RIP Ron. Thoughts with Dean and the family.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kieron on May 27, 2020, 10:21:09 PM
RIP, Ron.

Condolences, Deano.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on May 27, 2020, 10:24:27 PM
RIP Ron.

Another Holte Ender in the Sky.

Condolences to Dean and family.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on May 27, 2020, 10:30:05 PM
Heartfelt condolences to Dean and his family.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on May 27, 2020, 10:32:59 PM
That's very sad news. Condolences to all the family.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: West Derby Villan on May 27, 2020, 10:34:00 PM
Very sad news

HEITS
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on May 27, 2020, 10:34:15 PM
So sorry to hear of this
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: curiousorange on May 27, 2020, 10:41:37 PM
Very sad news. Condolences to Dean and his family.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on May 27, 2020, 10:55:43 PM
How very sad indeed. Is it possible that having contracted Covid-19 Dean couldn’t see his dad in his final days? Either way terrible news.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on May 27, 2020, 11:35:15 PM
Quote from: BC Villain on May 27, 2020, 10:11:15 PM
Very poignant that a year ago today, Dean talked about visiting his father and telling him he'd be a Premier League manager when he saw him next.  RIP Ron. 

I remember Dean saying that, dementia is a horrible illness which his Dad had before the covid outbreak. Wasn't he a steward at VP years ago?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villa Lew on May 28, 2020, 10:23:06 AM
RIP Ron, thoughts are with Dean and his family.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: simon ward 50 on May 28, 2020, 10:39:59 AM
Thoughts and prayers with Deano and his family.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ger Regan on May 28, 2020, 10:53:21 AM
Very sad, even at the best of times, but now, when it's more difficult to offer / receive support from loved ones, it makes it a lot tougher. Thoughts with Dean and family.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on May 28, 2020, 04:35:57 PM
Very sad news. Condolences to the family.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on May 29, 2020, 09:24:59 PM
Quote from: brian green on May 26, 2020, 06:47:07 AM
We all "saw something" in Jack Grealish long before Smith rocked up.  Legion was the first poster to flag up Jack's ability six years ago on this forum.

It was (and still is) quite clear that he is head and shoulders above the vast majority of everyone else. I hold the same opinion about Cameron Archer now as I did with Jack Grealish all those years ago. Unfortunately, Dean Smith does not.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on May 29, 2020, 09:38:40 PM
Sad news. I watched the episode of After Life last night where the character playing Gervais' dad (a Villa fan in real life too) died. Dementia is heartbreaking.

On a selfish level I wonder if Dean will be in the right headspace for the Sheffield United game.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: johnc on May 30, 2020, 08:58:16 AM
Quote from: eamonn on May 29, 2020, 09:38:40 PM
Sad news. I watched the episode of After Life last night where the character playing Gervais' dad (a Villa fan in real life too) died. Dementia is heartbreaking.

On a selfish level I wonder if Dean will be in the right headspace for the Sheffield United game.
As harsh as it sounds I would imagine the dementia has led to Dean Smith grieving for his dad long before he died.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mellin on May 30, 2020, 01:01:40 PM
Yes, very sad news. RIP.

On the grieving subject and not just specific to Dean, I'd imagine that's true. Fortunately I've not had to deal with it first hand and pray I never do.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: old man villa fan on May 30, 2020, 03:46:07 PM
Quote from: johnc on May 30, 2020, 08:58:16 AM
Quote from: eamonn on May 29, 2020, 09:38:40 PM
Sad news. I watched the episode of After Life last night where the character playing Gervais' dad (a Villa fan in real life too) died. Dementia is heartbreaking.

On a selfish level I wonder if Dean will be in the right headspace for the Sheffield United game.
As harsh as it sounds I would imagine the dementia has led to Dean Smith grieving for his dad long before he died.

Very true.  Both of my parents died having suffered with dementia for a few years.  My father's was a quite rare form of dementia which required strong medication, which put him at the level with people with more normal dementia.  He was admitted to hospital after a fall and they had to take him off his medication.  His mental deterioration was rapid and something I would not wish on anybody with a family member suffering with dementia.  It was a relief when he passed away as the good memories of the past were being washed away by the present.  You need to be very strong in this situation and not everybody is.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: BC Villain on May 30, 2020, 05:32:35 PM
Quote from: eamonn on May 29, 2020, 09:38:40 PM
Sad news. I watched the episode of After Life last night where the character playing Gervais' dad (a Villa fan in real life too) died. Dementia is heartbreaking.

On a selfish level I wonder if Dean will be in the right headspace for the Sheffield United game.

Sometimes getting on with the job is the best way of dealing with it, as opposed to sitting at home dwelling on it.  I'm sure his Dad would say "come on son, you've a job to do".  I'm 1000% certain that the club will give Dean and his family all the support they need.

Having seen my grandfather succumb to this horrible illness, I can vouch for dementia bring called "the long goodbye"

Just to say, fair play to Blues, Wolves and Walsall for tweeting messages of condolences as well
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on May 30, 2020, 06:24:00 PM
Sad news indeed.  I liked the story of Dean being able to tell his dad that he'd been appointed Villa manager.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lizz on May 30, 2020, 10:08:55 PM
One of my unexpected tasks at work last week was researching providing some kind of assistance for an employee who is terminally ill and feeling totally neglected due to Corona Virus. Until then, I'd never heard of Anticipatory Grief.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on May 30, 2020, 10:50:56 PM
Quote from: johnc on May 30, 2020, 08:58:16 AM
Quote from: eamonn on May 29, 2020, 09:38:40 PM
Sad news. I watched the episode of After Life last night where the character playing Gervais' dad (a Villa fan in real life too) died. Dementia is heartbreaking.

On a selfish level I wonder if Dean will be in the right headspace for the Sheffield United game.
As harsh as it sounds I would imagine the dementia has led to Dean Smith grieving for his dad long before he died.
[/quote s
Quote from: johnc on May 30, 2020, 08:58:16 AM
Quote from: eamonn on May 29, 2020, 09:38:40 PM
Sad news. I watched the episode of After Life last night where the character playing Gervais' dad (a Villa fan in real life too) died. Dementia is heartbreaking.

On a selfish level I wonder if Dean will be in the right headspace for the Sheffield United game.
As harsh as it sounds I would imagine the dementia has led to Dean Smith grieving for his dad long before he died.
Your probably right. My Nan died 17 years or so after being diagnosed with Alzheimer’s and now my mom has it, diagnosed about 3 years ago. It’s an awful disease. This lockdown has really messed with my mom’s routine and her husband is really struggling. We’ve broken a few rules just to help him out. So yep, I’d say Smith has been grieving already.
RIP Smith senior, sad times.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on June 01, 2020, 09:18:14 PM
Been busy with family things recently, so catching up with the forum.

It's so particularly sad that this happened on the anniversary of the play-off win.

RIP Dean's Dad & condolences to family & friends.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Footy-Vill on June 03, 2020, 03:19:32 AM
Quote from: Vill I An on May 25, 2020, 03:00:22 PM
Let's be fair to Deano he brought Grealish game on heaps and bounds since he's been here . The high performance levels achieved by Jack are a result of Dean Smith as coach.
Smith and his way of coaching has undoubtedly really developed Grealish on field game.

Grealish confirms what I said
"The manager has been a massive influence on me,” he says. “I couldn’t give him enough credit. I see him as like a father figure to me, I can go and speak to him about anything. I feel that’s the same with him a bit; he can ask me about what I’m feeling about training, matches. For me, I could speak to him about anything, on or off the field. Since he has come in he has been brilliant. I have played the best football of my career since he got appointed.”

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mike on June 04, 2020, 08:52:21 PM
Quote from: johnc on May 30, 2020, 08:58:16 AM
Quote from: eamonn on May 29, 2020, 09:38:40 PM
Sad news. I watched the episode of After Life last night where the character playing Gervais' dad (a Villa fan in real life too) died. Dementia is heartbreaking.

On a selfish level I wonder if Dean will be in the right headspace for the Sheffield United game.
As harsh as it sounds I would imagine the dementia has led to Dean Smith grieving for his dad long before he died.

Yes. It isn’t harsh, it’s true. By the time my dad died, I had said goodbye to him years since. He died between the semi against Albion (me and my sister watching the thread while holding his hand) and the final.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Footy-Vill on June 18, 2020, 12:48:33 AM
Dean Smith was saying "we're out to prove people wrong " and "everyone has written us off "
I fully support him however cant help thinking a live crowd at the match today some may have shown a discontent.
And I can't totally disagree if some would have been moaning at the lack of urgency.
Context removed of course.
And leaving out perspective of first game back.
Wins are what we need and giving comments about appraisal and putting things right on the pitch he needs to follow up with all his good coaching , motivating and leadership skills and get these players winning matches.
Sheffield Utd weren't up to much in an attacking sense and so Villa seemed solid enough.
It's another ball game against an attack minded Chelsea so despite a pleasing clean sheet in first match back it's going to be a real test to see if players have learned during the break and training last few weeks what to do.
Let's hope can get the vibrancy back and would like to see Smith even more vocal and urging players for the win

Come on Dean . Still with you !
Up the villa!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Footy-Vill on June 20, 2020, 12:53:44 AM
Dean Smith trying to be honest and upbeat after our first game at least.

"I said after the game there was no form leading into the game and I think we have shown that our form is growing," Smith said.

"I thought we were the aggressors, I think the fact that Sheffield United only had one shot on target all game showed that defensively we were very good.

"When you come out of a game like that disappointed it shows that you're on a good thing."

Come on Deano
Up the villa! 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on June 20, 2020, 06:42:36 AM
Talks a good game.  Says all the right things, sadly, the execution isn't there with these players.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Footy-Vill on June 20, 2020, 12:14:00 PM
More nice words from Dean.
Let's hope players have learnt !

Smith has been talking about improvements:

"We’ve all taken a little bit of stick and rightly so with the goals we’ve conceded – coaches and players,” said Smith.

 “Our defensive organisation hasn’t been what we’ve been working on the training ground and we’ve managed over the last 12 to 14 weeks to put that right.

“We’ve got to do it now against some real top drawer players in Chelsea. My centre-halves know too well how good Tammy can be so we’ve got to be even better now on Sunday.”
It is not just the defenders,” he added. “It is a team game, you score from defenders sometimes playing a ball through but you have to defend as a team as well.

“There are certain things we have worked on with the back four but it is more the group chats we have been having.

“There are lots of different things we have shown them but certainly the video work during the lockdown, allowing them to talk about it freely and what they have seen and what they think we can do.

We are guiding them in that direction and the players have picked up an awful lot. We have taken away grey areas and made it very black and white."

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: gpbarr on June 21, 2020, 06:14:44 PM
Good bye. Adios. Arrivederci. Take a taxi - don't care where its headed so long its out of B6. And take the fuckwit with you (Terry).   
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on June 21, 2020, 06:16:01 PM
time's up Dean and it should have been so months ago.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mcgrath_85 on June 21, 2020, 06:18:10 PM
Should have gone in January. He’s taking us down with zero fight. An awful manager.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 21, 2020, 06:21:17 PM
Today was really poor. So lacking in energy, intensity, and most importantly any clear plan of attack.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on June 21, 2020, 06:22:56 PM
Massively out of his depth, next job will be at a Middlesbrough/Reading kind of club, unfortunately we will be playing against him next season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on June 21, 2020, 06:30:05 PM
Sorry Dean if you are true supporter resign tonight and let someone else save the team from relegation.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on June 21, 2020, 06:30:08 PM
What's most disappointing for me isn't so much the results, it's the performances. Every game it seems the same, play for a 0-0 and hope we nick one. It's not what you promised us Dean.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: rougegorge on June 21, 2020, 06:33:01 PM
Quote from: mcgrath_85 on June 21, 2020, 06:18:10 PM
Should have gone in January. He’s taking us down with zero fight. An awful manager.
I think he should've gone in December after Sheffield United and Southampton. There was another opportunity in January after Man City and certainly in March after the debacles at Southampton and Leicester.

I think his association with the club has probably afforded him more time than anyone else would have had and possibly too many fans were happy to give him more time, which we didn't have. Unfortunately, it hadn't been working for months before lockdown.

All the credit he had for getting us up is evaporating.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 21, 2020, 06:34:38 PM
Have I imagined it or did Smith say something earlier in the season that essentially suggested he didn’t expect to get anything against the games against the bigger clubs? If so our performances against reek of having zero confidence and an expectation of failure.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT on June 21, 2020, 06:35:20 PM
Why does every single manager get ruined by us?

I had massive hopes for Deano, JT etc. Brentford had always mullered us, they were quick, incisive and always pressed the action.

Now with the same manager, we’re pedestrian, defensive and cowardly. We have no leaders and look like several players have jumped ship already.

I’m gutted, but have to be honest, if Steve Bruce has served that up, we’d rightly be slaughtering him. Deano has to accept that was appalling.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on June 21, 2020, 06:35:31 PM
For the love of god put him out of his misery.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ASHTONVILLA on June 21, 2020, 06:42:47 PM
Why is he still here? P45 and one more for Suso.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nii Lamptey on June 21, 2020, 06:42:50 PM
Clueless. If he's in charge over the next 8 games (well, just the very next game probably), we're down. Big Sam is the only cure to our current predicament I'm afraid
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: levico on June 21, 2020, 06:46:25 PM
I think it’s probably too late to save us now but personally I’d like to see him go now. I can’t stand watching his team any longer. Let’s at least go down fighting.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Flin5tone on June 21, 2020, 06:53:29 PM
BFS NOW!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Jon Crofts on June 21, 2020, 06:54:18 PM
1 point from 18. 3 months to get ready again and we look just as shit now as we did in March.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 21, 2020, 06:55:13 PM
I have a worrying feeling that we’ll keep him on irrespective of what happens.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy65 on June 21, 2020, 06:56:46 PM
Terry for the rest of the season
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on June 21, 2020, 06:56:55 PM
If we go down and play the final 8 games like we have the last half a dozen then as much as I like DS and want him to succeed there's no chance i'd be keeping him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on June 21, 2020, 06:57:46 PM
Quote from: Flin5tone on June 21, 2020, 06:53:29 PM
BFS NOW!


Yeah let’s just keep on repeating over and over again the mistakes of the past

Lambert Mcliesh Bruce Smith
keep going on the same road will lead to the same place
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on June 21, 2020, 06:58:10 PM
I've seen nothing from Appleyard to suggest he's any good as a coach or would make any difference. He does fuck all during the games that i've seen.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: rougegorge on June 21, 2020, 07:03:40 PM
I am beginning to wish the season had ended on PPG if we are going to stick with this and go down with a whimper...actually without a whimper based on that today.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on June 21, 2020, 07:08:47 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on June 21, 2020, 06:34:38 PM
Have I imagined it or did Smith say something earlier in the season that essentially suggested he didn’t expect to get anything against the games against the bigger clubs? If so our performances against reek of having zero confidence and an expectation of failure.

Think it was after Spurs in February he said along lines of these results wouldn't define our season. Pretty odd considering all the shock results our relegation rivals had at that point v top 6/7.

Always liked Dean due to first watching him manage Walsall in 2011 so always great to see managers rise up the leagues and get chance in premier league through hard work. And he did get us promoted.

I worry if we get crowds back in things would get pretty ugly early next season if we had a poor start to the season. Wouldn't want that so better to let him go the day after West Ham game.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on June 21, 2020, 07:09:20 PM
Has to go after today. Our only hope of surviving now is a new manager bounce like what we had when Sherwood came in. Like Dean, we all do, but miles out of his depth at this level unfortunately.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on June 21, 2020, 07:10:46 PM
He wont go today no point in sacking him now. Stay up thank him and get rid, go down thank him and get rid
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on June 21, 2020, 07:11:36 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on June 21, 2020, 06:55:13 PM
I have a worrying feeling that we’ll keep him on irrespective of what happens.

Even if we lose every single game left?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on June 21, 2020, 07:15:44 PM
Given that this was the game that Dean was supposedly needing to win to save his job, according to the press, before the lockdown, it will be interesting to see if he survives.  I think he will but we are fresh out of ideas, quality and invention.  We are docile in our efforts to try to win games.  As I said in the post match thread, surely the owners cannot be happy with this shit?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on June 21, 2020, 07:21:56 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on June 21, 2020, 07:08:47 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on June 21, 2020, 06:34:38 PM
Have I imagined it or did Smith say something earlier in the season that essentially suggested he didn’t expect to get anything against the games against the bigger clubs? If so our performances against reek of having zero confidence and an expectation of failure.

Think it was after Spurs in February he said along lines of these results wouldn't define our season. Pretty odd considering all the shock results our relegation rivals had at that point v top 6/7.

Always liked Dean due to first watching him manage Walsall in 2011 so always great to see managers rise up the leagues and get chance in premier league through hard work. And he did get us promoted.

I worry if we get crowds back in things would get pretty ugly early next season if we had a poor start to the season. Wouldn't want that so better to let him go the day after West Ham game.

That’s a valid argument when you’re not throwing 3 points to Bournemouth.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: rougegorge on June 21, 2020, 07:24:10 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on June 21, 2020, 07:08:47 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on June 21, 2020, 06:34:38 PM
Have I imagined it or did Smith say something earlier in the season that essentially suggested he didn’t expect to get anything against the games against the bigger clubs? If so our performances against reek of having zero confidence and an expectation of failure.

Think it was after Spurs in February he said along lines of these results wouldn't define our season. Pretty odd considering all the shock results our relegation rivals had at that point v top 6/7.

Always liked Dean due to first watching him manage Walsall in 2011 so always great to see managers rise up the leagues and get chance in premier league through hard work. And he did get us promoted.

I worry if we get crowds back in things would get pretty ugly early next season if we had a poor start to the season. Wouldn't want that so better to let him go the day after West Ham game.
Well he was right in his indication about not accruing points against the top teams.

Just 2 points out of a possible 45 against the top 10!!

However, I know we had a long break, but I think he may be wrong on this statement, made after beating Watford:
 "I have said teams of mine usually finish the season better and I am expecting a better points haul over the second half of the season..."
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on June 21, 2020, 07:25:50 PM
Quote from: themossman on June 21, 2020, 07:21:56 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on June 21, 2020, 07:08:47 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on June 21, 2020, 06:34:38 PM
Have I imagined it or did Smith say something earlier in the season that essentially suggested he didn’t expect to get anything against the games against the bigger clubs? If so our performances against reek of having zero confidence and an expectation of failure.

Think it was after Spurs in February he said along lines of these results wouldn't define our season. Pretty odd considering all the shock results our relegation rivals had at that point v top 6/7.

Always liked Dean due to first watching him manage Walsall in 2011 so always great to see managers rise up the leagues and get chance in premier league through hard work. And he did get us promoted.

I worry if we get crowds back in things would get pretty ugly early next season if we had a poor start to the season. Wouldn't want that so better to let him go the day after West Ham game.

That’s a valid argument when you’re not throwing 3 points to Bournemouth.
Exactly he put all his eggs in one basket and then dropped points anyway.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on June 21, 2020, 07:32:34 PM
Dean Smith, like Paul Lambert has been reduced to precisely the opposite of the confident, progressive manager he arrived at our club as. Shrivelled to the size and complexion of an old man’s nut sack.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 21, 2020, 07:34:57 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on June 21, 2020, 07:11:36 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on June 21, 2020, 06:55:13 PM
I have a worrying feeling that we’ll keep him on irrespective of what happens.

Even if we lose every single game left?

Quite possibly, because I fear the narrative would shift to, “well he’s got experience in the Championship and he’s got us promoted before.”
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Flin5tone on June 21, 2020, 07:40:50 PM
Covid 19 will probably save him his Job
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on June 21, 2020, 07:42:12 PM
‘Our season won’t be defined by these games against teams above, below or in roughly the same bit of the league as us’
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on June 21, 2020, 07:53:25 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on June 21, 2020, 07:32:34 PM
Dean Smith, like Paul Lambert has been reduced to precisely the opposite of the confident, progressive manager he arrived at our club as. Shrivelled to the size and complexion of an old man’s nut sack.

Villa Park has been long established as a managerial graveyard. But that clown Suso has to go too.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on June 21, 2020, 07:59:29 PM
Employ a bang average Championship manager and what can you expect - he/we got lucky last season
I am disappointed with the owners - I thought they would have been more savvy - extending his contract was a poor move .
He certainly appears to give other teams far too much respect - no wonder the players aren't up to the fight when the manager gives up prior to kick off
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: BoVillan esq on June 21, 2020, 08:04:48 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on June 21, 2020, 07:59:29 PM
Employ a bang average Championship manager and what can you expect - he/we got lucky last season
I am disappointed with the owners - I thought they would have been more savvy - extending his contract was a poor move .
He certainly appears to give other teams far too much respect - no wonder the players aren't up to the fight when the manager gives up prior to kick off

Exactly right and said so at the time of Smith being hired, couldn't get my head around what was expected of a manager that at best had achieved very little and if you are a club wanting Premiership and Premiership survival, why smith?.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: curiousorange on June 21, 2020, 08:11:53 PM
In any other season he'd be gone after this exact fixture. But unless there's a replacement waiting in the wings, there isn't, so why bother now? Make a smart appointment for the Championship in the summer when you're not pressing the panic button.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan82 on June 21, 2020, 08:14:00 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on June 21, 2020, 07:59:29 PM

I am disappointed with the owners - I thought they would have been more savvy - extending his contract was a poor move .

Yeah. I am disappointed by how amateurish it has been over the past 12 months.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 21, 2020, 08:19:17 PM
Dean has to stop making excuses. This squad is capable of staying up, but it requires a coherent tactical plan. His constant repetition of the same things that fail time and time again is the problem.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Des Little on June 21, 2020, 08:19:20 PM
Deano’s Ultra cautious tactics make for horrendous viewing, but once this season is over we need to look at our recruitment policy. We have some many inadequate players it’s a surprise we aren’t rock bottom already. I’d like to think that Suso will be getting his P45 without any hesitation.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: BoVillan esq on June 21, 2020, 08:19:49 PM
Quote from: curiousorange on June 21, 2020, 08:11:53 PM
In any other season he'd be gone after this exact fixture. But unless there's a replacement waiting in the wings, there isn't, so why bother now? Make a smart appointment for the Championship in the summer when you're not pressing the panic button.

If we lose at Newcastle I would let go of Smith, there and then, no ifs no buts, gone, then give it to Terry, tell him he's got the remaining games, if we get relegated the club would look for another boss, If, Terry keeps us up, you have to let him have his way and back him, no question he's got loads of experience in the Premiership as a player, just perhaps with Smith out the way, he becomes a different person/manager. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: curiousorange on June 21, 2020, 08:21:04 PM
I don't really get the Terry theory myself. I think he's as culpable as Smith and O'Kelly in the way we play.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on June 21, 2020, 08:35:07 PM
an unholy triumvirate who all need to be shown the door.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on June 21, 2020, 08:37:03 PM
I'd rather bring in a dream team of Bruce, Sherwood and Fred West before I'd have Terry anywhere near the job.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OzVilla on June 21, 2020, 08:37:10 PM
Smith’s  been without doubt our poorest performer all season. Tactically inept and appalling game management. Need to win games yet drops Samatta for a player who is maybe Championship at best. Everyone has a crack at Suso but we’ve thrown away so many points and opportunities this season. We never, ever learn.

Too late to change now though with games so closely packed together.

Newcastle is now a must win.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on June 21, 2020, 08:39:01 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on June 21, 2020, 08:37:03 PM
I'd rather bring in a dream team of Bruce, Sherwood and Fred West before I'd have Terry anywhere near the job.
He is quite near it now.  Usually stands beside it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on June 21, 2020, 08:41:43 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on June 21, 2020, 08:39:01 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on June 21, 2020, 08:37:03 PM
I'd rather bring in a dream team of Bruce, Sherwood and Fred West before I'd have Terry anywhere near the job.
He is quite near it now.  Usually stands beside it.

True. Perhaps we need to get him away from it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: RamboandBruno on June 21, 2020, 09:00:48 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on June 21, 2020, 07:59:29 PM
Employ a bang average Championship manager and what can you expect - he/we got lucky last season
I am disappointed with the owners - I thought they would have been more savvy - extending his contract was a poor move .
He certainly appears to give other teams far too much respect - no wonder the players aren't up to the fight when the manager gives up prior to kick off

Not on here to defend smith, already posted on the post march thread that his continuation of the sametactics indicate he’s lost now, but just how did we get lucky last season. We luckily won 10 games in a row? And we’re luckily the far better team in the play off final. Yes we had Grealish come back but you could argue we were unlucky to lose him for nearly half a season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on June 21, 2020, 09:02:09 PM
Quote from: CT on June 21, 2020, 06:35:20 PM
Why does every single manager get ruined by us?

I had massive hopes for Deano, JT etc. Brentford had always mullered us, they were quick, incisive and always pressed the action.

Now with the same manager, we’re pedestrian, defensive and cowardly. We have no leaders and look like several players have jumped ship already.

I’m gutted, but have to be honest, if Steve Bruce has served that up, we’d rightly be slaughtering him. Deano has to accept that was appalling.

We're the football equivalent of Lenny from Of Mice and Men, pick up someone 'real purdy' and just fucking break them.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ez on June 21, 2020, 09:04:21 PM
I think that's 1 draw and 6 defeats in the last 7 games. That's sackable anywhere else. Why wait until we're down.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on June 21, 2020, 09:07:08 PM
To suggest he was really proud of the players in a game we barely touched the ball means he was proud that they did what he asked them to do. Fucking embarrassing approach to the game if that’s the case.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on June 21, 2020, 09:15:23 PM
Marc Van Bommel if we stay up
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aev on June 21, 2020, 09:17:13 PM
Quote from: ez on June 21, 2020, 09:04:21 PM
I think that's 1 draw and 6 defeats in the last 7 games. That's sackable anywhere else. Why wait until we're down.

And the draw was pretty fortuitous.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: curiousorange on June 21, 2020, 09:18:44 PM
I don't think we ruin managers. They have a shelf life here just like at any other club. But we do seem to have settled at a particular station since we got ditched by O'Neill.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on June 21, 2020, 09:19:07 PM
Quote from: RamboandBruno on June 21, 2020, 09:00:48 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on June 21, 2020, 07:59:29 PM
Employ a bang average Championship manager and what can you expect - he/we got lucky last season
I am disappointed with the owners - I thought they would have been more savvy - extending his contract was a poor move .
He certainly appears to give other teams far too much respect - no wonder the players aren't up to the fight when the manager gives up prior to kick off

Not on here to defend smith, already posted on the post march thread that his continuation of the sametactics indicate he’s lost now, but just how did we get lucky last season. We luckily won 10 games in a row? And we’re luckily the far better team in the play off final. Yes we had Grealish come back but you could argue we were unlucky to lose him for nearly half a season.

Not really with Tammy, Mings, Jack, Axl, plus the squad including El-Ghazi, Conor etc that is a team a decent manager could get up
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on June 21, 2020, 09:23:26 PM
Quote from: Three Spires Villa on June 21, 2020, 09:19:07 PM
Quote from: RamboandBruno on June 21, 2020, 09:00:48 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on June 21, 2020, 07:59:29 PM
Employ a bang average Championship manager and what can you expect - he/we got lucky last season
I am disappointed with the owners - I thought they would have been more savvy - extending his contract was a poor move .
He certainly appears to give other teams far too much respect - no wonder the players aren't up to the fight when the manager gives up prior to kick off

Not on here to defend smith, already posted on the post march thread that his continuation of the sametactics indicate he’s lost now, but just how did we get lucky last season. We luckily won 10 games in a row? And we’re luckily the far better team in the play off final. Yes we had Grealish come back but you could argue we were unlucky to lose him for nearly half a season.

Not really with Tammy, Mings, Jack, Axl, plus the squad including El-Ghazi, Conor etc that is a team a decent manager could get up

I think that squad needed a tweak in terms of coaching and Smith did that.  He also got the best player the Championship had in Grealish back in the fold and it all came together brilliantly.  Sadly, that is a much easier standard than the Premier Division and Smith is found wanting. Why can't we appoint a manager who pulls the whole club together? Someone actually good enough because the last ten years, other than last year has been crap. Massive club, rich owners but a deficient management team.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Walmley_Villa on June 21, 2020, 09:27:35 PM
Summer recruitment will and is costing us. Without sounding all Brucey we needed more Prem experience. As I've said before going into the  season with Wesley, Keinan and Kodja as strikers was always going to put us in the shit. If that was the Suso strategy he does indeed need shooting, if Smith went knowingly along with it then he is just as culpable.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on June 21, 2020, 09:29:16 PM
Kodjia went to Al-Gharafa.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on June 21, 2020, 09:29:54 PM
PL experience means fuck all when the tactics are to not lose the game and drop deeper and deeper. To try and nick a goal. But if you need some we could always throw in experienced player and PL winner Danny Drinkwater.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on June 21, 2020, 09:31:08 PM
Quote from: Legion on June 21, 2020, 09:29:16 PM
Kodjia went to Al-Gharafa.

Ignore. Mis-read post.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The_ads on June 21, 2020, 09:32:02 PM
I’ve been a real Smith sympathiser and desperately wanted him to succeed but this week has been piss poor.  I get it’s not ideal circumstances but we were bang average on Wednesday and probably should have lost and today we were as bad as any of those games pre COVID. It ain’t working and he won’t be in charge next year so I’d let him down gently now and give it Terry until the Summer
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 21, 2020, 09:32:10 PM
Dean isn’t going to be fired, so he needs to lose his trepidation and fear and send out a team that is set up to try and win.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Jon Crofts on June 21, 2020, 09:47:12 PM
Quote from: The_ads on June 21, 2020, 09:32:02 PM
I’ve been a real Smith sympathiser and desperately wanted him to succeed but this week has been piss poor.  I get it’s not ideal circumstances but we were bang average on Wednesday and probably should have lost and today we were as bad as any of those games pre COVID. It ain’t working and he won’t be in charge next year so I’d let him down gently now and give it Terry until the Summer

I think most people were right with you, right up until the last sentence.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on June 21, 2020, 09:48:05 PM
No to Terry.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT on June 21, 2020, 09:54:15 PM
Quote from: Legion on June 21, 2020, 09:48:05 PM
No to Terry.

Same. He’s just as involved.

Or would the players magically start showing passion and energy if he was the boss?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on June 21, 2020, 09:55:02 PM
We have had some disastrous managers post Houllier but John Terry would be the worst by some distance.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on June 21, 2020, 09:55:32 PM
On a par with Eric Black.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on June 21, 2020, 09:56:42 PM
Or KMac.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on June 21, 2020, 09:58:37 PM
I honestly think it's too late.  They'll give him the full season and after that who knows?  They'll at least be able to say they backed him, they spent a lot of money, gave him time, and then time to get us out of the mess, but it just didn't work out.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on June 21, 2020, 09:59:01 PM
More like Tactics Tim.  Great in the London media, lazy and unmotivated everywhere else.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on June 21, 2020, 10:01:15 PM
Purslow talked recently about a 200million disaster.  Yet they seem to be happy to go down? 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on June 21, 2020, 10:11:24 PM
Just watched the Villa View post-match thing. The chap on there (Dan?) seems to think that the summer signings are the problem, which seems reasonable. I've no idea how much he knows (it'll be more than me!), but he said Smith identified targets, which were inevitably too expensive (Phillips/Maupay, I'm guessing), and so was served Suso's cut price equivalents instead. Might be nonsense but it feels kind of true.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on June 21, 2020, 10:12:13 PM
So why spend so much money on the only Brazilian striker that cannot play football?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on June 21, 2020, 10:13:00 PM
Quote from: Legion on June 21, 2020, 10:12:13 PM
So why spend so much money on the only Brazilian striker that cannot play football?

No idea.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on June 21, 2020, 10:14:18 PM
Brown envelopes?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on June 21, 2020, 10:15:22 PM
Quote from: Legion on June 21, 2020, 10:12:13 PM
So why spend so much money on the only Brazilian striker that cannot play football?

Joelinton says hello.

Admittedly that only makes 2.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT on June 21, 2020, 10:15:46 PM
Quote from: Legion on June 21, 2020, 10:12:13 PM
So why spend so much money on the only Brazilian striker that cannot play football?

Best ask Suso.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on June 21, 2020, 10:16:27 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on June 21, 2020, 10:15:22 PM
Quote from: Legion on June 21, 2020, 10:12:13 PM
So why spend so much money on the only Brazilian striker that cannot play football?

Joelinton says hello.

Admittedly that only makes 2.

Not a striker, but there was that lad that Celtic signed in the 90s. Scheidt.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 21, 2020, 10:16:30 PM
I wouldn’t write Wesley off yet. We’ve rushed to judgement on players far too often in the past.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on June 21, 2020, 10:17:34 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on June 21, 2020, 10:16:30 PM
I wouldn’t write Wesley off yet. We’ve rushed to judgement on players far too often in the past.

I agree.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on June 21, 2020, 10:18:04 PM
I can't imagine he opposed the signings of Mings or Heaton or Konsa so it can't be true that he got stiffed on all signings.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on June 21, 2020, 10:21:06 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on June 21, 2020, 10:18:04 PM
I can't imagine he opposed the signings of Mings or Heaton or Konsa so it can't be true that he got stiffed on all signings.

Correct if you like Dean it’s everybody else who got the players and he had no idea. I don’t believe that I think he would have had a say and if he really didn’t want them they wouldn’t have come to the club
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on June 21, 2020, 10:22:21 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on June 21, 2020, 10:18:04 PM
I can't imagine he opposed the signings of Mings or Heaton or Konsa so it can't be true that he got stiffed on all signings.

Agreed, but if you're looking to the bench to change things and all you can find is Trezeguet and Nakamba, you're not going to be able to do much.
I'm veering towards the idea that we should cut him loose sooner rather than later, by the way. I just think it's been a difficult hand for him to play after getting us up so quickly and being stymied by FFP due to the profligacy of his predecessors.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on June 21, 2020, 10:23:12 PM
Quote from: Newby on June 21, 2020, 10:01:15 PM
Purslow talked recently about a 200million disaster.  Yet they seem to be happy to go down? 

This is what I don't get.

I don't know about Sawiris, but I suspect he's nobody's fool. Edens is known for not fucking about with sentiment in his stewardship of the Bucks. Purslow has a small stake in the club.

Yet here we are, ploughing on towards a big fucking cliff, doing exactly the same thing we were doing prior to arriving in the shit when the season closed down.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on June 21, 2020, 10:24:46 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on June 21, 2020, 10:23:12 PM
Quote from: Newby on June 21, 2020, 10:01:15 PM
Purslow talked recently about a 200million disaster.  Yet they seem to be happy to go down? 

This is what I don't get.

I don't know about Sawiris, but I suspect he's nobody's fool. Edens is known for not fucking about with sentiment in his stewardship of the Bucks. Purslow has a small stake in the club.

Yet here we are, ploughing on towards a big fucking cliff, doing exactly the same thing we were doing prior to arriving in the shit when the season closed down.

I suspect a lot hinges on Wednesday.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on June 21, 2020, 10:24:56 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on June 21, 2020, 10:22:21 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on June 21, 2020, 10:18:04 PM
I can't imagine he opposed the signings of Mings or Heaton or Konsa so it can't be true that he got stiffed on all signings.
Agreed, but if you're looking to the bench to change things and all you can find is Trezeguet and Nakamba, you're not going to be able to do much.
That's true.  It's also possible of course that he isn't a good judge of a footballer.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on June 21, 2020, 10:26:08 PM
Sometimes I wonder if fans live in another dimension. That we see things and yet through the eyes of the manager it’s entirely different. Surely though the executives at the club are sitting somewhere and underneath their masks they are wondering and muttering “what in fucks name is this shit?”
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on June 21, 2020, 10:27:03 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on June 21, 2020, 10:24:56 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on June 21, 2020, 10:22:21 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on June 21, 2020, 10:18:04 PM
I can't imagine he opposed the signings of Mings or Heaton or Konsa so it can't be true that he got stiffed on all signings.
Agreed, but if you're looking to the bench to change things and all you can find is Trezeguet and Nakamba, you're not going to be able to do much.
That's true.  It's also possible of course that he isn't a good judge of a footballer.

What do you imagine Pitarch's job is?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on June 21, 2020, 10:27:36 PM
Catering assistant?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on June 21, 2020, 10:29:00 PM
Quote from: Legion on June 21, 2020, 10:27:36 PM
Catering assistant?

I know his diary is quite full with the less stimulating of the Finnegan family functions.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on June 21, 2020, 10:29:56 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on June 21, 2020, 10:27:03 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on June 21, 2020, 10:24:56 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on June 21, 2020, 10:22:21 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on June 21, 2020, 10:18:04 PM
I can't imagine he opposed the signings of Mings or Heaton or Konsa so it can't be true that he got stiffed on all signings.
Agreed, but if you're looking to the bench to change things and all you can find is Trezeguet and Nakamba, you're not going to be able to do much.
That's true.  It's also possible of course that he isn't a good judge of a footballer.

What do you imagine Pitarch's job is?
I know what his job is, I thought we were trying to determine how involved Dean is in the recruitment process.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on June 21, 2020, 10:32:17 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on June 21, 2020, 10:29:56 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on June 21, 2020, 10:27:03 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on June 21, 2020, 10:24:56 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on June 21, 2020, 10:22:21 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on June 21, 2020, 10:18:04 PM
I can't imagine he opposed the signings of Mings or Heaton or Konsa so it can't be true that he got stiffed on all signings.
Agreed, but if you're looking to the bench to change things and all you can find is Trezeguet and Nakamba, you're not going to be able to do much.
That's true.  It's also possible of course that he isn't a good judge of a footballer.

What do you imagine Pitarch's job is?
I know what his job is, I thought we were trying to determine how involved Dean is in the recruitment process.

Well we don't, and will never, know. I'd suggest, though, that he's not the one calling the final shots on recruitment given that he has somebody working above him whose job that is.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on June 21, 2020, 10:34:04 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on June 21, 2020, 10:32:17 PM
Well we don't, and will never, know. I'd suggest, though, that he's not the one calling the final shots on recruitment given that he has somebody working above him whose job that is.
As you say, we'll never know.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on June 21, 2020, 10:36:36 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on June 21, 2020, 10:34:04 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on June 21, 2020, 10:32:17 PM
Well we don't, and will never, know. I'd suggest, though, that he's not the one calling the final shots on recruitment given that he has somebody working above him whose job that is.
As you say, we'll never know.

It's not like there aren't a hundred things that we could criticise him for that absolutely are his fault!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on June 21, 2020, 10:38:14 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on June 21, 2020, 10:36:36 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on June 21, 2020, 10:34:04 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on June 21, 2020, 10:32:17 PM
Well we don't, and will never, know. I'd suggest, though, that he's not the one calling the final shots on recruitment given that he has somebody working above him whose job that is.
As you say, we'll never know.

It's not like there aren't a hundred things that we could criticise him for that absolutely are his fault!
Quite right.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on June 21, 2020, 10:40:29 PM
Not only will we never know, they know we will never know.

When Idle Jack came home from market with no cow carrying a bag of magic beans at least his mother knew whose fault it was.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on June 21, 2020, 11:10:56 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on June 21, 2020, 10:11:24 PM
Just watched the Villa View post-match thing. The chap on there (Dan?) seems to think that the summer signings are the problem, which seems reasonable. I've no idea how much he knows (it'll be more than me!), but he said Smith identified targets, which were inevitably too expensive (Phillips/Maupay, I'm guessing), and so was served Suso's cut price equivalents instead. Might be nonsense but it feels kind of true.

Phillips and Maupay are decent players but I doubt we'd be much higher if we'd signed them. Brighton until the shock win yesterday were only 3 points ahead of us and indeed had won two games since November, same as us.

Phillips is o.k but way people talk it's like he's already got 50 caps for England and played many season in champions league. He might've struggled to impose himself in premier league compared to what he does for Leeds.

I really think the biggest mistake was not getting an experienced CB. Wrong to sign three and they're all similar e.g. young and lacking top level experience.

We cut out some of the bad mistakes and we get a few more draws and the odd win. Add just 5 more points and we're still in a really good position to stay up. Who knows if a senior CB was ever seriously identified or if Smith just thought getting Mings here permanently would be enough. As season has gone on we've become much easier to score against.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SamTheMouse on June 22, 2020, 12:42:00 AM
I think the spine's OK, it's the flanks where we suck.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: adrenachrome on June 22, 2020, 12:46:11 AM
Quote from: SamTheMouse on June 22, 2020, 12:42:00 AM
I think the spine's OK, it's the flanks where we suck.

Yes. It was clear to see that Chelsea were hogging the line on both sides, and they often play very narrowly.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Axl Rose on June 22, 2020, 02:05:14 AM
Watching some interviews this morning with Dean stating that we played well.

The mind boggles.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on June 22, 2020, 08:38:49 AM
Quote from: adrenachrome on June 22, 2020, 12:46:11 AM
Quote from: SamTheMouse on June 22, 2020, 12:42:00 AM
I think the spine's OK, it's the flanks where we suck.

Yes. It was clear to see that Chelsea were hogging the line on both sides, and they often play very narrowly.


Yes, this has been the issue all season, not good enough either side, front to back.

Funnily enough this was always the problem with Lambert. We remind me a lot of Lambert's first Villa side, just lacking the world beating centre forward plucked from obscurity to save our arses.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on June 22, 2020, 09:27:27 AM
He hasn't got a single clue how to counter teams who like to keep possession.  We're incapable of doing it ourselves, but we also don't have any sort of fighting spirit, grit or determination to get into their faces and disrupt them.  We're nowhere near the shameful shambles we were when we were relegated, but somehow this feels even worse.  Back then that almost felt like a relief and the chance to start again.  Now it feels like it'll kill any sort of forward momentum we had, and we'll almost certainly lose all of our decent players.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: WarszaVillan on June 22, 2020, 09:34:16 AM
Quote from: LeeB on June 22, 2020, 08:38:49 AM
Quote from: adrenachrome on June 22, 2020, 12:46:11 AM
Quote from: SamTheMouse on June 22, 2020, 12:42:00 AM
I think the spine's OK, it's the flanks where we suck.

Yes. It was clear to see that Chelsea were hogging the line on both sides, and they often play very narrowly.


Yes, this has been the issue all season, not good enough either side, front to back.

Funnily enough this was always the problem with Lambert. We remind me a lot of Lambert's first Villa side, just lacking the world beating centre forward plucked from obscurity to save our arses.

When have we last had a pair of decent full-backs?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Fred Crump on June 22, 2020, 09:37:56 AM
Alan Wright and Gary Charles
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on June 22, 2020, 09:39:38 AM
Quote from: WarszaVillan82 on June 22, 2020, 09:34:16 AM
Quote from: LeeB on June 22, 2020, 08:38:49 AM
Quote from: adrenachrome on June 22, 2020, 12:46:11 AM
Quote from: SamTheMouse on June 22, 2020, 12:42:00 AM
I think the spine's OK, it's the flanks where we suck.

Yes. It was clear to see that Chelsea were hogging the line on both sides, and they often play very narrowly.


Yes, this has been the issue all season, not good enough either side, front to back.

Funnily enough this was always the problem with Lambert. We remind me a lot of Lambert's first Villa side, just lacking the world beating centre forward plucked from obscurity to save our arses.

When have we last had a pair of decent full-backs?

Earl Barrett and Steve Staunton?

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ASHTONVILLA on June 22, 2020, 09:40:27 AM
Quote from: WarszaVillan82 on June 22, 2020, 09:34:16 AM
When have we last had a pair of decent full-backs?

Bouma and Delaney? Can't think of a time since then when we had two decent fullbacks.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on June 22, 2020, 09:42:05 AM
Quote from: Axl Rose on June 22, 2020, 02:05:14 AM
Watching some interviews this morning with Dean stating that we played well.

The mind boggles.

It's so frustrating mate, especially as Dean Smith is not a moron. But there is clearly some sort of stubborn, shithouse psychology that infects every manager we've ever had when they get to the point where they are objectively failing at their jobs.

Invariably they will oversee a useless team performance like that one yesterday and still come out afterwards praising the team, defending the performance/tactics, essentially giving a completely different account of the game than what anyone else saw - or, indeed, what the facts suggest. =<26% possession at home against Chelsea is simply indefensible. I'd maybe expect that against the best teams in the world, but never Lampard's boys.

It's hard to know what's going through a manager's mind when he's intent on defending shite like that. To what end? What benefit is it to him to say things like "They've done everything I asked of them", "I thought we played really well" when that only further underlines a manager's incompetence? If we can all label those comments for what they are - problematic at best - I do not understand how an intelligent man like Smith thinks it's the best policy.

A manager who wanted to remain in the real world while retaining the fans' backing would surely say something along the lines of "We know we've let people down today, we need to put our best foot forward at this point, there are 8 games left so we still have time to right the wrongs we saw out there today. We need to be more positive and have more courage and we'll look to do that on Wednesday."

I said it about Jack's performance in his thread but I can echo the same thing about Dean here: you'd honestly never know, on the basis of the last two games, that he was a proud Villa man fighting for the club's survival. If anything - judging by his body language and his words - it seems as if he's just not that bothered. It's almost Brucian.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on June 22, 2020, 09:51:23 AM
I agree with all of that ATAL.  There's no more infuriating sight than seeing Dean Smith stood there, arms folded with a look of confused resignation on his face.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on June 22, 2020, 09:54:09 AM
I dont think it was a bad move to appoint him at all, his Brentford teams played with aggressive purposeful tactics and were constantly on the front foot, thats why we went for him. When iterviewed and he talks about tactics there is clearly knowledge and method there. Its puzzling why this year we have been abandoned that for a dull defensive style that looks both alien to the players and is utterly ineffective.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on June 22, 2020, 09:56:32 AM
One thing I dont get is when we went to five at the back earlier in the season, we looked a bit a bit more solid and better going forward. It was soon ditched for some reason.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on June 22, 2020, 10:02:26 AM
The issue is that with a lot of teams playing with one up front, the non marking defenders have to push into midfield to prevent you being outnumbered there, our defenders, presumably through lack of experence or confidence, havent looked comfortable on the ball. I think its a pretty simple diagnosis, we just bought players who werent quite ready to play in the PL every week.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: DB on June 22, 2020, 10:24:30 AM
He needs to do something as we look pretty shit. Even if he changes the system or approach, bottom line is the team is just not good enough. Someone said last year's team could beat this season's, I can see that. The money spent has hardly shown any difference in quality.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on June 22, 2020, 11:00:45 AM
Quote from: Clampy on June 22, 2020, 09:56:32 AM
One thing I dont get is when we went to five at the back earlier in the season, we looked a bit a bit more solid and better going forward. It was soon ditched for some reason.
Didn't it get found out pretty quickly?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on June 22, 2020, 11:07:52 AM
Quote from: PeterWithe on June 22, 2020, 09:54:09 AM
I dont think it was a bad move to appoint him at all, his Brentford teams played with aggressive purposeful tactics and were constantly on the front foot, thats why we went for him. When iterviewed and he talks about tactics there is clearly knowledge and method there. Its puzzling why this year we have been abandoned that for a dull defensive style that looks both alien to the players and is utterly ineffective.
To be fair I think we started the season trying to play the right way, it's just individual errors caught us out time and again.  With McGinns loss of form and then subsequent injury we just didn't have the personnel to carry it off.  As the season's gone on and the pressure has grown we've just moved to a safety first backs against the wall type of approach.  Unfortuanely we don't have the players to carry off that type of 'all hands to the pump' type performance.  We're too nice, not physically strong enough and just seem to lack the nouse and gyle to manage games like Watford do.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Axl Rose on June 22, 2020, 11:16:41 AM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on June 22, 2020, 09:42:05 AM
Quote from: Axl Rose on June 22, 2020, 02:05:14 AM
Watching some interviews this morning with Dean stating that we played well.

The mind boggles.

It's so frustrating mate, especially as Dean Smith is not a moron. But there is clearly some sort of stubborn, shithouse psychology that infects every manager we've ever had when they get to the point where they are objectively failing at their jobs.

Invariably they will oversee a useless team performance like that one yesterday and still come out afterwards praising the team, defending the performance/tactics, essentially giving a completely different account of the game than what anyone else saw - or, indeed, what the facts suggest. =<26% possession at home against Chelsea is simply indefensible. I'd maybe expect that against the best teams in the world, but never Lampard's boys.

It's hard to know what's going through a manager's mind when he's intent on defending shite like that. To what end? What benefit is it to him to say things like "They've done everything I asked of them", "I thought we played really well" when that only further underlines a manager's incompetence? If we can all label those comments for what they are - problematic at best - I do not understand how an intelligent man like Smith thinks it's the best policy.

A manager who wanted to remain in the real world while retaining the fans' backing would surely say something along the lines of "We know we've let people down today, we need to put our best foot forward at this point, there are 8 games left so we still have time to right the wrongs we saw out there today. We need to be more positive and have more courage and we'll look to do that on Wednesday."

I said it about Jack's performance in his thread but I can echo the same thing about Dean here: you'd honestly never know, on the basis of the last two games, that he was a proud Villa man fighting for the club's survival. If anything - judging by his body language and his words - it seems as if he's just not that bothered. It's almost Brucian.

Well said mate, and spot on.

It's painful to watch, as it has been for what seems like most of the season.

Dean looks as if he's given up. But then again, with his arms folded and usual gormless expression, he may well have given up long ago.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on June 22, 2020, 11:17:12 AM
The problems are all over the pitch.

The goalkeeper situation has been a problem for years.  Nyland can be brilliant but can be calamatous.  Steer always injured. The answer, sign a 37 year old has been who has hardly played for Milan in God knows how long.  In my absent mindedness I forgot Heaton.  But again injury prone. 

Right back Elmo is okay when it is him.  Guilbert seems to me to be a typical injury prone sulk - although admittedly he has had his good games.

Left Back - Targett.  One paced, overweight as well as lightweight if that is possible.

Centre Backs - Mings, best one we have and a colossus on his day but prone to losses of concentration.
Konsa - he will get there I think, but too much of a gamble to bring him in as a regular PL starter.
Engels - started off brilliantly, then totally tailed off - and as for Spurs Jeez.

Midfield - Luiz - very good and getting better.  So there is a plus point.
Nakamba - prone to the gaffe and monumentally slow.
McGinn - obviously a plus point but hopelessly off the pace at the moment.
Trez - occasional important goal, but offers no pace whatsoever a real luxury we cannot afford.
Grealish - brilliant but almost half as effective when consistently played out of position.
Hourihane - love his attitude but he is a good championship player.

Forwards
Davis - Great target man, never a consistent goal scorer.
Samatta - Seems lost when playing on his own.  Just play the two of the together!
Wesley - wtf knows but he was largely shit before the injury.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Axl Rose on June 22, 2020, 11:18:39 AM
Basically our squad isn't very good.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on June 22, 2020, 11:19:48 AM
Quote from: chrisw1 on June 22, 2020, 11:07:52 AM
Quote from: PeterWithe on June 22, 2020, 09:54:09 AM
I dont think it was a bad move to appoint him at all, his Brentford teams played with aggressive purposeful tactics and were constantly on the front foot, thats why we went for him. When iterviewed and he talks about tactics there is clearly knowledge and method there. Its puzzling why this year we have been abandoned that for a dull defensive style that looks both alien to the players and is utterly ineffective.
To be fair I think we started the season trying to play the right way, it's just individual errors caught us out time and again.  With McGinns loss of form and then subsequent injury we just didn't have the personnel to carry it off.  As the season's gone on and the pressure has grown we've just moved to a safety first backs against the wall type of approach.  Unfortuanely we don't have the players to carry off that type of 'all hands to the pump' type performance.  We're too nice, not physically strong enough and just seem to lack the nouse and gyle to manage games like Watford do.

I agree with all of this, except I don't think we've consciously moved to the backs to the wall approach, it's just the result of poor play.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on June 22, 2020, 11:22:23 AM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on June 22, 2020, 11:17:12 AM
The problems are all over the pitch.

The goalkeeper situation has been a problem for years.  Nyland can be brilliant but can be calamatous.  Steer always injured. The answer, sign a 37 year old has been who has hardly played for Milan in God knows how long.  In my absent mindedness I forgot Heaton.  But again injury prone. 

Right back Elmo is okay when it is him.  Guilbert seems to me to be a typical injury prone sulk - although admittedly he has had his good games.

Left Back - Targett.  One paced, overweight as well as lightweight if that is possible.

Centre Backs - Mings, best one we have and a colossus on his day but prone to losses of concentration.
Konsa - he will get there I think, but too much of a gamble to bring him in as a regular PL starter.
Engels - started off brilliantly, then totally tailed off - and as for Spurs Jeez.

Midfield - Luiz - very good and getting better.  So there is a plus point.
Nakamba - prone to the gaffe and monumentally slow.
McGinn - obviously a plus point but hopelessly off the pace at the moment.
Trez - occasional important goal, but offers no pace whatsoever a real luxury we cannot afford.
Grealish - brilliant but almost half as effective when consistently played out of position.
Hourihane - love his attitude but he is a good championship player.

Forwards
Davis - Great target man, never a consistent goal scorer.
Samatta - Seems lost when playing on his own.  Just play the two of the together!
Wesley - wtf knows but he was largely shit before the injury.


Agree with that mate, but Davis isn't even an occasional goal scorer, let alone a consistent one!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on June 22, 2020, 11:24:41 AM
I was trying to be kind to him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 22, 2020, 11:25:20 AM
Quote from: Clampy on June 22, 2020, 09:56:32 AM
One thing I dont get is when we went to five at the back earlier in the season, we looked a bit a bit more solid and better going forward. It was soon ditched for some reason.

Because five at the back is terrible. Our problem is we don't have enough attacking options to scare the opposition so they can attack us at will. Bringing in another defender would make things even worse.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on June 22, 2020, 11:31:01 AM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on June 22, 2020, 11:25:20 AM
Quote from: Clampy on June 22, 2020, 09:56:32 AM
One thing I dont get is when we went to five at the back earlier in the season, we looked a bit a bit more solid and better going forward. It was soon ditched for some reason.

Because five at the back is terrible. Our problem is we don't have enough attacking options to scare the opposition so they can attack us at will. Bringing in another defender would make things even worse.

We barely touched the ball in the first half hour yesterday so I don't think trying it again could be any worse, especially if it meant playing Jack in a free role behind the forward and a wing back to cross a ball in.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on June 22, 2020, 11:46:39 AM
Quote from: chrisw1 on June 22, 2020, 11:07:52 AM
To be fair I think we started the season trying to play the right way, it's just individual errors caught us out time and again.  With McGinns loss of form and then subsequent injury we just didn't have the personnel to carry it off.  As the season's gone on and the pressure has grown we've just moved to a safety first backs against the wall type of approach.  Unfortuanely we don't have the players to carry off that type of 'all hands to the pump' type performance.  We're too nice, not physically strong enough and just seem to lack the nouse and gyle to manage games like Watford do.
I'd add that we do not have the pace and resilience to use the ball when we do win it back in defence. We saw with Bruce and we're seeing it again: if the strategy is defend and hope for a break, we need players who can break quickly, decisively and with real menace.
We got c.20% possession yesterday because we do not have the players to make use of the ball when it is in our possession.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 22, 2020, 11:56:04 AM
Quote from: Clampy on June 22, 2020, 11:31:01 AM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on June 22, 2020, 11:25:20 AM
Quote from: Clampy on June 22, 2020, 09:56:32 AM
One thing I dont get is when we went to five at the back earlier in the season, we looked a bit a bit more solid and better going forward. It was soon ditched for some reason.

Because five at the back is terrible. Our problem is we don't have enough attacking options to scare the opposition so they can attack us at will. Bringing in another defender would make things even worse.

We barely touched the ball in the first half hour yesterday so I don't think trying it again could be any worse, especially if it meant playing Jack in a free role behind the forward and a wing back to cross a ball in.

No, no, no. Five at the back is hideously boring. It's the Muse of defensive formations. Just no.

4-2-2-2 is the way to go. Four at the back with wing backs bombing forwards (probably means Gilbo or Elmo in for Ezri Pound), two from SJM, Dougvaldo and Marvelous in the middle, Jack playing all over the place, El Ghazi alternating wings (we have loads of subs so no harm him running himself into the ground), and two up front.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: David_Nab on June 22, 2020, 12:04:02 PM
You can't defend and sit on edge of your box to counter when you lack pace in side

It's Newcastle's current tactic but they have pace in Almiron and Sant-Max so they can get away with it ...we hit it to Davis long and no one can catch up to support.Whats annoying is we have one brief moment yesterday where we go the ball down and played and looked better , i think it ended with Jack messing up a pass but at least we tried.Rest of game was literally wack the ball away as hard as you can it was a shambles..at one point Nyland kicked it straight back to to their keeper with a long kick.

Chelsea are not even that good at the back either thats whats so annoying !

For Girouds goal we had 8 men plus the keeper in our own box , which ended up helping him as the shot for going to Nyland before the deflection from Conner.We had 9 inc Keeper in area to their 5 and they still scored ..so if Dean thinks thats good play ...he is beyond help
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on June 22, 2020, 12:04:57 PM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on June 22, 2020, 11:56:04 AM
4-2-2-2 is the way to go. Four at the back with wing backs bombing forwards (probably means Gilbo or Elmo in for Ezri Pound), two from SJM, Dougvaldo and Marvelous in the middle, Jack playing all over the place, El Ghazi alternating wings (we have loads of subs so no harm him running himself into the ground), and two up front.
Sounds like utter chaos.  I like it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Footy-Vill on June 22, 2020, 12:09:09 PM
I do wonder if Dean Smith is just too intelligent for these players. Maybe he has to be simplifying how his team plays , the messages he's giving the players probably too much for them to understand.

Smith himself gets it and likes to think in approach to football.
How many of the villa players have tactical acumen?

Dam frustrating all round
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ASHTONVILLA on June 22, 2020, 12:21:17 PM
Quote from: Vill I An on June 22, 2020, 12:09:09 PM
I do wonder if Dean Smith is just too intelligent for these players. Maybe he has to be simplifying how his team plays , the messages he's giving the players probably too much for them to understand.

Smith himself gets it and likes to think in approach to football.
How many of the villa players have tactical acumen?

Dam frustrating all round


More likely the other way round!  Smith has zero tactical acumen as evidenced by his tactical inflexibility and appalling use of substitutes. Some of the players must be miffed off with it by now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Footy-Vill on June 22, 2020, 12:26:08 PM
I think we'll find Dean Smith is trying to stick to his footballing beliefs and tactics. Rather than swap everyone around and confuse players.
It's the players who have to get on board not Smith chopping and changing to any rash degree.

Yes a certain flexibility is needed. But a defined system and set up is important then the players must play and perform in the system set out by Dean

One such flexible move is to tactically deploy Grealish centrally. Smith I think will try that again. I would be surprised if he hasn't seen that .
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ASHTONVILLA on June 22, 2020, 12:31:11 PM
Quote from: Vill I An on June 22, 2020, 12:26:08 PM
I think we'll find Dean Smith is trying to stick to his footballing beliefs and tactics. Rather than swap everyone around and confuse players.
It's the players who have to get on board not Smith chopping and changing to any rash degree.

Yes a certain flexibility is needed. But a defined system and set up is important then the players must play and perform in the system set out by Dean

Unless his football beliefs are to have no possession and camp in our own half punting the odd long ball up to an isolated forward then I see no evidence of this. The football he has served up this season has been garbage and every bit as rubbish as Lambert and Bruce. I wanted Smith as manager but even last season it was apparent he was not good enough, and just relied on having Grealish bail him out. It hasn't worked and he needs to go.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 22, 2020, 12:36:32 PM
Dean’s biggest failing appears to be his inability to arrest a slide. That’s in a sequence of games and also within a match.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Footy-Vill on June 22, 2020, 12:36:41 PM
Quote from: ASHTONVILLA on June 22, 2020, 12:31:11 PM
Quote from: Vill I An on June 22, 2020, 12:26:08 PM
I think we'll find Dean Smith is trying to stick to his footballing beliefs and tactics. Rather than swap everyone around and confuse players.
It's the players who have to get on board not Smith chopping and changing to any rash degree.

Yes a certain flexibility is needed. But a defined system and set up is important then the players must play and perform in the system set out by Dean

Unless his football beliefs are to have no possession and camp in our own half punting the odd long ball up to an isolated forward then I see no evidence of this. The football he has served up this season has been garbage and every bit as rubbish as Lambert and Bruce. I wanted Smith as manager but even last season it was apparent he was not good enough, and just relied on having Grealish bail him out. It hasn't worked and he needs to go.

Ok I get you see it very differently.  Still think it's the players ability rather than simply Dean smiths.  We've all heard the way he talks about football and Villa so he doesn't lack any tactical know how or passion . But get how others can see it.

So is there a provisio that if Villa stay up Dean Smith continues?

Have to give him that surely?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: DB on June 22, 2020, 12:40:01 PM
If we stay up, he needs to be improved upon, just like a lot of the players, which leads me to get rid of Suso first of all.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 22, 2020, 12:40:27 PM
We're harder to play against now, I had that feeling before the pause in the season against Southampton and Leicester. I felt we'd become a little too easy to play against.

"Our defensive organisation has improved. Chelsea had to work very hard yesterday to get that victory, we hung in there and we had chances."

Unfortunately Dean you’re ignoring the fact that we’ve sacrificed any semblance of attacking threat.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 22, 2020, 12:47:28 PM
Well I’d dispute that we had any great defensive plan in yesterday’s game. We just shoved everyone behind the ball and it wasn’t that hard for Chelsea. No more so than it would be if they were playing a League 1 or 2 side.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on June 22, 2020, 12:50:08 PM
Chelsea had 74% possession and 19 shots.  How on earth is that "harder to play against"?  The usual self-delusion and dishonesty that has affected all of our recent managers once the rot sets in.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 22, 2020, 12:53:02 PM
Quote from: Risso on June 22, 2020, 12:50:08 PM
Chelsea had 74% possession and 19 shots.  How on earth is that "harder to play against"?  The usual self-delusion and dishonesty that has affected all of our recent managers once the rot sets in.

Yep. There is a different to playing defensively and completely surrendering. The key point for the former is having some control, which we had absolutely zero of yesterday. We just kept hoofing it back to them for wave and wave of attack.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on June 22, 2020, 12:53:52 PM
Quote from: Vill I An on June 22, 2020, 12:42:35 PM

Can't wait for Newacstle match as that's a different playing field and occasion.

With their pace, I can see the Jawdies embarrassing us, to be honest.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on June 22, 2020, 01:08:27 PM
Smith can point to Jack getting fouled a lot (and he's right) but I watched the highlights on MOTD last night and most of our best chances, including our goal, Hause's header over the bar, and Jota's shot, all came from free kicks given for fouls on him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on June 22, 2020, 01:52:41 PM
Quote from: Axl Rose on June 22, 2020, 02:05:14 AM
Watching some interviews this morning with Dean stating that we played well.

The mind boggles.

It's clear in the last few games the narrative has changed and we've changed our mindset to be conservative and harder to break down. I'd hardly say it's an odd thing for a manager deep in a relegation battle to do.

However lucky we were we still kept a clean sheet on Wednesday and didn't concede for an hour yesterday. The problem however is as soon as we concede one we completely fold, was same at Leicester where we kept it tight for 40 minutes but were 3-0 down by 70th minute.

Still too slow to react when other teams change their shape or formation as Chelsea did when they put on Barkley and Pulisic and we did nothing to counter it until we were 2-1 down.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on June 22, 2020, 02:07:30 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on June 22, 2020, 12:47:28 PM
Well I’d dispute that we had any great defensive plan in yesterday’s game. We just shoved everyone behind the ball and it wasn’t that hard for Chelsea. No more so than it would be if they were playing a League 1 or 2 side.

They've struggled against that approach for most of the season though, Lampard said as much in his post match interview. Newcastle beat them 1-0 at home with two shots on target and 1 corner which lead to their goal (in the 94th minute). Bournemouth won at Stamford Bridge with two shots on target. As negative as we were we ha two shots on target in first half yesterday.

Our bigger problem is there's simply no belief in our squad we can defend and concentrate for 90 minutes when in the lead against a top 6/7 team. It all stems from blowing that lead v Arsenal I think and isn't helped by DS basically writing off the games saying loses to likes of Spurs won't define our season. They will if Bournemouth or West Ham get points off Spurs in the run in.

It's easy for people to say we should have a go but we had a good go v Spurs and they could've still scored 5 in that first half (probably would've if Kane had been fit) with simple balls over the top which completely cut out our defence and lead to the penalty.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on June 22, 2020, 02:39:56 PM
All we need now is for Dean to take a trip to Germany or up the road to watch Pep on how to keep the ball. Cue the backwards goal kick in our not too distant future.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on June 22, 2020, 02:51:12 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on June 22, 2020, 12:36:32 PM
Dean’s biggest failing appears to be his inability to arrest a slide.

Again, something that was pointed out to us by Brentford fans when he first joined us.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VinnieChase84 on June 22, 2020, 02:53:48 PM
Quote from: DB on June 22, 2020, 12:40:01 PM
If we stay up, he needs to be improved upon, just like a lot of the players, which leads me to get rid of Suso first of all.

Suso is gone for sure
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: curiousorange on June 22, 2020, 03:00:20 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on June 22, 2020, 02:51:12 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on June 22, 2020, 12:36:32 PM
Dean’s biggest failing appears to be his inability to arrest a slide.

Again, something that was pointed out to us by Brentford fans when he first joined us.

Seems like a very 'run' manager all told.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 22, 2020, 05:07:00 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on June 22, 2020, 02:51:12 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on June 22, 2020, 12:36:32 PM
Dean’s biggest failing appears to be his inability to arrest a slide.

Again, something that was pointed out to us by Brentford fans when he first joined us.

Yep. Although that doesn’t really matter, he could have learnt and developed. Unfortunately he hasn’t.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on June 22, 2020, 05:30:22 PM
Whilst I understand why the owners wanted to show some loyalty towards Smith, that was a huge business risk and particularly naïve  - we clearly needed someone with experience of managing in the top flight and not hope that Smith would "learn as he went along"
Perhaps the  owners have put too much faith in Purslow - certainly recruitment has been poor, whoever has made the decisions.
For me a ruthless decision was warranted earlier in the season - now is far too late and we are left with the possibility of a clear out of players and management. Hopefully the financial aspects of the club are in order and we don't face the possibility of "going under" again   
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on June 22, 2020, 05:39:03 PM
I'm not sure how loyal our owners are. By all accounts in Lancashire earlier this year, Sean Dyche was being lined up to replace Smith. It was doing the rounds up there long before one or two papers/sites picked up on it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: wince on June 22, 2020, 05:41:21 PM
I think we all agreed that we owed smith a chance for getting us up. However too much was weighted on that 10 game run on the back of a real poor run of form. As a team we are either winning or losing. Never really in between and never convincing enough to grind out results. Having a talisman like Grealish means we have one tactic. Get it to Grealish, a player being played out wide when his best position is more central. We lack any real option up front with Davies, an inconsistent forward or Samatta who we haven’t got the best out of yet. So on the back of our season thus far, what realistic chance did we have of turning over Chelsea? We have no fight in us and a decent manager would be trying to get us in games and not letting our heads drop. Smith, nice bloke a genuine decent man, being a fan means he is spared the absolute pelters any other manager would have got. As for Fat Sam? How the mighty have fallen when he is a real consideration but for me it’s too late. See the season out, hopefully we stay up but regardless change and get the right man in. My fear is that we are seen as a graveyard for managers.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on June 22, 2020, 05:49:09 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on June 22, 2020, 05:39:03 PM
I'm not sure how loyal our owners are. By all accounts in Lancashire earlier this year, Sean Dyche was being lined up to replace Smith. It was doing the rounds up there long before one or two papers/sites picked up on it.

you would hope we’ve had enough of British type managers by now
they all produce exactly the same sort of football
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: David_Nab on June 22, 2020, 05:59:55 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on June 22, 2020, 05:39:03 PM
I'm not sure how loyal our owners are. By all accounts in Lancashire earlier this year, Sean Dyche was being lined up to replace Smith. It was doing the rounds up there long before one or two papers/sites picked up on it.

Well 2 Billionaires didnt buy us to watch us playing in the Championship which is why if we drop down I suspect Purslow,Susu and Dean are all likely to be binned off
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on June 22, 2020, 06:13:50 PM
Purslow needs to show the owners he means business. His job to do the hiring and firing and some firing is definitely required. He said recently that relegation is a £200 million disaster and yet he sits tight!  We are so nearly ripe for a quality manager to take possession of this now well run club. Lots of money, lack of oomph.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on June 22, 2020, 06:22:10 PM
Quote from: Newby on June 22, 2020, 06:13:50 PM
Purslow needs to show the owners he means business. His job to do the hiring and firing and some firing is definitely required. He said recently that relegation is a £200 million disaster and yet he sits tight!  We are so nearly ripe for a quality manager to take possession of this now well run club. Lots of money, lack of oomph.
Do you think he should sack him now or at the end of the season?  Realistically nobody would come in now - with a game every 3-4 days there's just no time to work with the squad.  Even if you worked mircales and got someone in by the weekend, they're looking at a maximum of 6 games they can try to influence.

I guess you could give it to Terry as caretaker.  Do you think that would give us a bounce?

Up until Saturday I always felt Smith should get until the end of the season.  Following that surrender I'm less sure, but I don't think there's any sensible alternaive right now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 22, 2020, 06:37:32 PM
You are right it would be Terry
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Alex77 on June 22, 2020, 06:43:05 PM
As much as I wouldn't want Terry I don't see that we have anything to lose.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ger Regan on June 22, 2020, 06:46:12 PM
Quote from: David_Nab on June 22, 2020, 05:59:55 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on June 22, 2020, 05:39:03 PM
I'm not sure how loyal our owners are. By all accounts in Lancashire earlier this year, Sean Dyche was being lined up to replace Smith. It was doing the rounds up there long before one or two papers/sites picked up on it.

Well 2 Billionaires didnt buy us to watch us playing in the Championship which is why if we drop down I suspect Purslow,Susu and Dean are all likely to be binned off
Purslow is a shareholder now, isn't he? Puts him in a much stronger position that the others I would have imagined.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on June 22, 2020, 06:49:41 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on June 22, 2020, 05:39:03 PM
I'm not sure how loyal our owners are. By all accounts in Lancashire earlier this year, Sean Dyche was being lined up to replace Smith. It was doing the rounds up there long before one or two papers/sites picked up on it.
But that's not that ambitious. Dyche is fairly limited and hardly likely to set PL on fire any time soon.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tomd2103 on June 22, 2020, 06:58:59 PM
t
Quote from: PaulWinch again on June 22, 2020, 12:47:28 PM
Well I’d dispute that we had any great defensive plan in yesterday’s game. We just shoved everyone behind the ball and it wasn’t that hard for Chelsea. No more so than it would be if they were playing a League 1 or 2 side.

Would have to agree with that Paul.  It is a very demoralising way of playing and the problem is that you eventually come across a top side who rip you to shreds even though you are playing that defensive style of football.  Those kind of defeats are very hard to come back from.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on June 22, 2020, 07:46:16 PM
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on June 22, 2020, 02:53:48 PM
Quote from: DB on June 22, 2020, 12:40:01 PM
If we stay up, he needs to be improved upon, just like a lot of the players, which leads me to get rid of Suso first of all.

Suso is gone for sure

Interesting. Any other background info on it?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on June 22, 2020, 08:03:40 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on June 22, 2020, 06:22:10 PM
Quote from: Newby on June 22, 2020, 06:13:50 PM
Purslow needs to show the owners he means business. His job to do the hiring and firing and some firing is definitely required. He said recently that relegation is a £200 million disaster and yet he sits tight!  We are so nearly ripe for a quality manager to take possession of this now well run club. Lots of money, lack of oomph.
Do you think he should sack him now or at the end of the season?  Realistically nobody would come in now - with a game every 3-4 days there's just no time to work with the squad.  Even if you worked mircales and got someone in by the weekend, they're looking at a maximum of 6 games they can try to influence.

I guess you could give it to Terry as caretaker.  Do you think that would give us a bounce?

Up until Saturday I always felt Smith should get until the end of the season.  Following that surrender I'm less sure, but I don't think there's any sensible alternaive right now.

I dare say you are right Chris. Who would realistically want it now? End of the season is probably the right time to reassess everything and try to sell the vision to the right person. No point changing now but just to say, if we don’t, then we accept our fate as Dean can’t change it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VinnieChase84 on June 22, 2020, 08:09:30 PM
Quote from: eamonn on June 22, 2020, 07:46:16 PM
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on June 22, 2020, 02:53:48 PM
Quote from: DB on June 22, 2020, 12:40:01 PM
If we stay up, he needs to be improved upon, just like a lot of the players, which leads me to get rid of Suso first of all.

Suso is gone for sure

Interesting. Any other background info on it?

Unfortunately not. Been told for a while come season end he’s a goner. Not sure how far process is on a new DOF
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on June 22, 2020, 08:13:34 PM
Fuck John Terry.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ktvillan on June 22, 2020, 08:42:14 PM
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on June 22, 2020, 08:09:30 PM
Quote from: eamonn on June 22, 2020, 07:46:16 PM
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on June 22, 2020, 02:53:48 PM
Quote from: DB on June 22, 2020, 12:40:01 PM
If we stay up, he needs to be improved upon, just like a lot of the players, which leads me to get rid of Suso first of all.

Suso is gone for sure

Interesting. Any other background info on it?

Unfortunately not. Been told for a while come season end he’s a goner. Not sure how far process is on a new DOF

Why would they wait til the season ends? We're not going to need any player recruiting between now and then.  Unless it's just letting his contract run down?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on June 22, 2020, 08:47:01 PM
Quote from: ktvillan on June 22, 2020, 08:42:14 PM
Why would they wait til the season ends? We're not going to need any player recruiting between now and then.  Unless it's just letting his contract run down?
I suppose because they'd effectively be telling the players recruited by Suso 'we should never have bought you'.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on June 22, 2020, 10:31:29 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on June 22, 2020, 08:47:01 PM
Quote from: ktvillan on June 22, 2020, 08:42:14 PM
Why would they wait til the season ends? We're not going to need any player recruiting between now and then.  Unless it's just letting his contract run down?
I suppose because they'd effectively be telling the players recruited by Suso 'we should never have bought you'.

As much as I think it's been a disaster, we operate a moneyball system and I'd like to think that Suso is still doing his job and putting portfolio's together for whoever comes in next to decide. He's been a shambles, such as shame with these owners.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on June 22, 2020, 11:25:11 PM
He can fuck off with the jack gets fouled a lot shtick as well. Do something about it then Dean instead of just moaning to get your excuses in for the next embarrassing defeat.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: David_Nab on June 22, 2020, 11:44:21 PM
Quote from: themossman on June 22, 2020, 11:25:11 PM
He can fuck off with the jack gets fouled a lot shtick as well. Do something about it then Dean instead of just moaning to get your excuses in for the next embarrassing defeat.


Whilst he may have a point how about some of our players stick the foot in and foul.Did anyone get near Mount all game ?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on June 23, 2020, 12:10:39 AM
Quote from: Newby on June 22, 2020, 08:03:40 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on June 22, 2020, 06:22:10 PM
Quote from: Newby on June 22, 2020, 06:13:50 PM
Purslow needs to show the owners he means business. His job to do the hiring and firing and some firing is definitely required. He said recently that relegation is a £200 million disaster and yet he sits tight!  We are so nearly ripe for a quality manager to take possession of this now well run club. Lots of money, lack of oomph.
Do you think he should sack him now or at the end of the season?  Realistically nobody would come in now - with a game every 3-4 days there's just no time to work with the squad.  Even if you worked mircales and got someone in by the weekend, they're looking at a maximum of 6 games they can try to influence.

I guess you could give it to Terry as caretaker.  Do you think that would give us a bounce?

Up until Saturday I always felt Smith should get until the end of the season.  Following that surrender I'm less sure, but I don't think there's any sensible alternaive right now.

I dare say you are right Chris. Who would realistically want it now? End of the season is probably the right time to reassess everything and try to sell the vision to the right person. No point changing now but just to say, if we don’t, then we accept our fate as Dean can’t change it.

Benitez? Came in at a later stage for Newcastle didn't he? Didn't manage to keep them up that time but they blitzed the championship, selling their best players, and made them a solid EPL team with little investment. Allardyce would take it too, both control freaks mind but avoiding relegation would save the club millions.

First thing either of those would do would implement a semblance of structure to the team. The purists might not take to the football but 25% possession at home isn't exactly 1970s Brazil. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 23, 2020, 07:04:15 AM
Agree, the first thing when you are struggling is become hard to beat, there is no structure to the way we are set up..
I can not see a new manager appointment but someone needs to do something and soon.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Luke8 on June 23, 2020, 07:48:54 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on June 23, 2020, 07:04:15 AM
Agree, the first thing when you are struggling is become hard to beat, there is no structure to the way we are set up..
I can not see a new manager appointment but someone needs to do something and soon.

Really? I said that the one thing that has happened since the restart is that we have much more defensive structure. We have looked more solid in terms of chances conceded in the last two games than we had in the majority of games prior to the break and that is with gifting the other team the ball for pretty much all of one of them.

Unfortunately it seems at the moment to have come at the expense of our attacking output - although we did clearly create the better chances against Sheffield United.

We clearly have some glaring issues - the predictability of how we are going to set up and play and our horrendous game management - but we have been more solid so far and that what most people seem to expect any new manager to come in and implement.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on June 23, 2020, 09:01:55 AM
it says everything about us that a kid who never scores gets the nod over a player recruited in January, at some expense, to fulfill the role. There are shades of TSM2 all over this squad.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on June 23, 2020, 10:36:50 AM
Quote from: mr underhill on June 23, 2020, 09:01:55 AM
it says everything about us that a kid who never scores gets the nod over a player recruited in January, at some expense, to fulfill the role. There are shades of TSM2 all over this squad.

Davis was injured at the time. He's fit now and by all accounts does pretty well. In my view there's a confidence issue and a lack of killer instinct (an example of which would be our goal on Sunday, he should never have let Hause get that loose ball).

I can see why we'd play him, with a view to bringing AEG, McGinn and Grelaish into the game, it just hasn't worked well enough. Samatta is more isolated.

All he more reason to play 2 up top in my view, I think they could play well together though it would leave us weaker defensively.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: N'ZMAV on June 23, 2020, 10:43:03 AM
Davis is a poor mans Emile Heskey and Kevin Davies - will never get enough goals...
He tries to battle about -  The service isn;t great either though to be fair to him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Luke8 on June 23, 2020, 11:32:03 AM
Quote from: Drummond on June 23, 2020, 10:36:50 AM
Quote from: mr underhill on June 23, 2020, 09:01:55 AM
it says everything about us that a kid who never scores gets the nod over a player recruited in January, at some expense, to fulfill the role. There are shades of TSM2 all over this squad.

Davis was injured at the time. He's fit now and by all accounts does pretty well. In my view there's a confidence issue and a lack of killer instinct (an example of which would be our goal on Sunday, he should never have let Hause get that loose ball).

I can see why we'd play him, with a view to bringing AEG, McGinn and Grelaish into the game, it just hasn't worked well enough. Samatta is more isolated.

All he more reason to play 2 up top in my view, I think they could play well together though it would leave us weaker defensively.

Getting people close to our striker has been a problem as season. People criticised Wesley - not completely unjustly -  but he struggled with the same issue. Davis certainly seems most suited to the role as we are currently playing it due to his hold up play.

I just can’t see Smith going with two out and our strikers but I wonder if we could get Samatta on the pitch at the same time as Davis by using him as one of our wide forwards? Would certainly be an extra threat in the box and we could get Jack back centrally.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OzVilla on June 23, 2020, 11:50:24 AM
It always feels like we’ve one less player on the pitch than the opposition. Doesn’t really matter where we are on the pitch I always feel like we are being outnumbered. Similarly when we have a man advantage as has happened a few times this season you can never tell. Yet another example of poor game management.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: David_Nab on June 23, 2020, 12:01:24 PM
Quote from: OzVilla on June 23, 2020, 11:50:24 AM
It always feels like we’ve one less player on the pitch than the opposition. Doesn’t really matter where we are on the pitch I always feel like we are being outnumbered. Similarly when we have a man advantage as has happened a few times this season you can never tell. Yet another example of poor game management.

I said this at weekend , we looked like we were down to 10 the whole game.We played so Narrow they constantly went wide and got cross's in.I rewatched the Shef United game away recently as was the same issue , City in the cup final was the same.

We seem to have 3 CMS in the middle close together who over little support on the wide area's so then the 2 wide attackers are then having to chase back to cover the full back.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on June 23, 2020, 12:02:01 PM
Quote from: Luke8 on June 23, 2020, 11:32:03 AM
Quote from: Drummond on June 23, 2020, 10:36:50 AM
Quote from: mr underhill on June 23, 2020, 09:01:55 AM
it says everything about us that a kid who never scores gets the nod over a player recruited in January, at some expense, to fulfill the role. There are shades of TSM2 all over this squad.

Davis was injured at the time. He's fit now and by all accounts does pretty well. In my view there's a confidence issue and a lack of killer instinct (an example of which would be our goal on Sunday, he should never have let Hause get that loose ball).

I can see why we'd play him, with a view to bringing AEG, McGinn and Grelaish into the game, it just hasn't worked well enough. Samatta is more isolated.

All he more reason to play 2 up top in my view, I think they could play well together though it would leave us weaker defensively.

Getting people close to our striker has been a problem as season. People criticised Wesley - not completely unjustly -  but he struggled with the same issue. Davis certainly seems most suited to the role as we are currently playing it due to his hold up play.

I just can’t see Smith going with two out and our strikers but I wonder if we could get Samatta on the pitch at the same time as Davis by using him as one of our wide forwards? Would certainly be an extra threat in the box and we could get Jack back centrally.

Grealish and Samatta behind/wide of Davis might work...
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: DB on June 23, 2020, 12:22:51 PM
Boro have sacked local lad Woodgate and bought in Colin W**ker with 8 games to go. Only out of relegation zone GD. Looking at new manager bounce I suppose with such a short time to go this season.
I won't happen, but could work for us getting Poch in....haha.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on June 23, 2020, 01:24:59 PM
Quote from: Drummond on June 23, 2020, 12:02:01 PM
Quote from: Luke8 on June 23, 2020, 11:32:03 AM
Quote from: Drummond on June 23, 2020, 10:36:50 AM
Quote from: mr underhill on June 23, 2020, 09:01:55 AM
it says everything about us that a kid who never scores gets the nod over a player recruited in January, at some expense, to fulfill the role. There are shades of TSM2 all over this squad.

Davis was injured at the time. He's fit now and by all accounts does pretty well. In my view there's a confidence issue and a lack of killer instinct (an example of which would be our goal on Sunday, he should never have let Hause get that loose ball).

I can see why we'd play him, with a view to bringing AEG, McGinn and Grelaish into the game, it just hasn't worked well enough. Samatta is more isolated.

All he more reason to play 2 up top in my view, I think they could play well together though it would leave us weaker defensively.

Getting people close to our striker has been a problem as season. People criticised Wesley - not completely unjustly -  but he struggled with the same issue. Davis certainly seems most suited to the role as we are currently playing it due to his hold up play.

I just can’t see Smith going with two out and our strikers but I wonder if we could get Samatta on the pitch at the same time as Davis by using him as one of our wide forwards? Would certainly be an extra threat in the box and we could get Jack back centrally.

Grealish and Samatta behind/wide of Davis might work...
Considering defending is really not our strong point maybe being more attack minded with Davis and Samatta up front, it might be a better form of defence. I thought this was what we signed up for with Smith to be honest.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdward on June 23, 2020, 02:09:46 PM

Middlesbrough have sacked Jonathan Woodgate and replaced him with Neil Warnock for the last 8 games.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Big Ming on June 23, 2020, 02:25:05 PM
Quote from: OzVilla on June 23, 2020, 11:50:24 AM
It always feels like we’ve one less player on the pitch than the opposition. Doesn’t really matter where we are on the pitch I always feel like we are being outnumbered. Similarly when we have a man advantage as has happened a few times this season you can never tell. Yet another example of poor game management.
I always feel that we have two or three less players than the opposition and we might as well have for all the use the wingers are.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 23, 2020, 04:46:38 PM
Quote from: OzVilla on June 23, 2020, 11:50:24 AM
It always feels like we’ve one less player on the pitch than the opposition. Doesn’t really matter where we are on the pitch I always feel like we are being outnumbered. Similarly when we have a man advantage as has happened a few times this season you can never tell. Yet another example of poor game management.
Which begs the question how the hell do we then commit another player up front.
The problem is too many players just no where near good enough, Hourihane AEG have done absolutely nothing with or without the ball.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: jwarry on June 23, 2020, 07:01:37 PM
Quote from: cdward on June 23, 2020, 02:09:46 PM

Middlesbrough have sacked Jonathan Woodgate and replaced him with Neil Warnock for the last 8 games.


Not that I should ever feel sorry for the Smog Monsters but can you imagine suffering Pulis and now Colin 😳
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pelty on June 23, 2020, 07:02:04 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on June 23, 2020, 04:46:38 PM
Quote from: OzVilla on June 23, 2020, 11:50:24 AM
It always feels like we’ve one less player on the pitch than the opposition. Doesn’t really matter where we are on the pitch I always feel like we are being outnumbered. Similarly when we have a man advantage as has happened a few times this season you can never tell. Yet another example of poor game management.
Which begs the question how the hell do we then commit another player up front.
The problem is too many players just no where near good enough, Hourihane AEG have done absolutely nothing with or without the ball.

This is spot on in my opinion. AEG is not even remotely fit for this league. He is slow and rarely makes the right run or plays the right ball. I never notice Hourihane except for when he takes the occasional free kick which, of late, has not even begun to worry a keeper.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on June 23, 2020, 11:46:32 PM
Quote from: OzVilla on June 23, 2020, 11:50:24 AM
It always feels like we’ve one less player on the pitch than the opposition.

El Ghazi?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 24, 2020, 06:58:23 AM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on June 23, 2020, 11:46:32 PM
Quote from: OzVilla on June 23, 2020, 11:50:24 AM
It always feels like we’ve one less player on the pitch than the opposition.

El Ghazi?
And Hourihane, it’s like playing with 9 men.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: andyh on June 24, 2020, 07:01:20 AM
Our midfield always looked lightweight with Westwood in it.
He’s like Norman Hunter compared to Hourihane.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on June 24, 2020, 07:54:55 AM
And Colin Wanker lives in Cornwall.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on June 24, 2020, 07:29:12 PM
Fuck off, Smith.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on June 24, 2020, 07:35:14 PM
-
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on June 24, 2020, 07:35:55 PM
I don’t give a shit that he got us up anymore. This pathetic embarrassing excuse for season has been so bad he may as well not have bothered.

These 3 games have told us everything we need to know. Players unmotivated, zero intensity, shit set up, no useful changes in game, out though by Steve fucking Bruce. Piss off Dean.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on June 24, 2020, 07:56:57 PM
Please go Dean.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 24, 2020, 07:57:36 PM
Yes we got a point, but it’s the same every time we never make any proactive changes. Not good enough.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on June 24, 2020, 07:59:19 PM
He has to go. He looks far too chuffed chatting to Bruce on the sideline for a man whose team have picked up 2 points from 3 absolutely crucial "cup finals" too.

Off with you, please take Terry and O'Nonymous with you too.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on June 24, 2020, 08:01:58 PM
These have been awful performances. If they were interested in playing for him there would be way more intensity.

They look like a bunch of players seeing out a few games before they bugger off.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on June 24, 2020, 08:02:33 PM
keep him whether we stay up or go down for me. Unless we stay up and in the summer an amazing opportunity crops up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on June 24, 2020, 08:07:30 PM
He's piss poor.  A lower league non-entity who should have stayed at Brentford, which looks like it was his level.  This season has been a disaster almost from the first match to the last.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on June 24, 2020, 08:08:56 PM
A bit dramatic that mate!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 24, 2020, 08:11:10 PM
He is not good enough for this level, it’s pretty obvious.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 24, 2020, 08:12:30 PM
Yes I think it’s pretty clear he doesn’t have it at this level. It’s sad and I wish him all the best, and thank him for the end of last year, but this is painful.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villadelph on June 24, 2020, 08:12:51 PM
Quote from: Risso on June 24, 2020, 08:07:30 PM
He's piss poor.  A lower league non-entity who should have stayed at Brentford, which looks like it was his level.  This season has been a disaster almost from the first match to the last.

I agree.

It was wishful thinking to think he would succeed. He sold us a bill of goods.. front-foot football, young and hungry players, connecting with the supporters.. blah blah blah.

We have stunk since summer and NOTHING has improved. Defense has been awful with no improvement, we can't manufacture a real goal, getting 2 goals is a miracle, his 4-3-3 is a joke with the players we've got and he's as stubborn as a donkey.

We bought the entire team and we've got nothing out of a single one of em.


Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on June 24, 2020, 08:14:05 PM
Quote from: Ads on June 24, 2020, 08:08:56 PM
A bit dramatic that mate!

He's crap, and has proved it all season.  We're as abject as we were under Lambert, and Smith is playing under the glorious new owners, not somebody who'd chucked the towel in years ago like Lerner.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on June 24, 2020, 08:15:27 PM
He appears to have learned absolutely nothing this season, which is the worrying thing when it comes to whether we keep him around after inevitable relegation.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villadelph on June 24, 2020, 08:18:32 PM
Quote from: themossman on June 24, 2020, 08:15:27 PM
He appears to have learned absolutely nothing this season, which is the worrying thing when it comes to whether we keep him around after inevitable relegation.

He's the smartest guy in the room.

The 4-3-3 has been an absolute nightmare.. we've sit back and get stuck with a 6-3-1. That's not the attacking football we were promised.

He stuck with Wesley, the most uninspiring and ineffective centre forward I've ever seen, for FAR too long.

He learns nothing from defeat and presses on forcing a square peg into a round hole.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 24, 2020, 08:20:27 PM
I wouldn’t write off Wesley he’s been playing in this team.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villadelph on June 24, 2020, 08:22:27 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on June 24, 2020, 08:20:27 PM
I wouldn’t write off Wesley he’s been playing in this team.

He can't trap a ball.. our record signing.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 24, 2020, 08:23:32 PM
He played for 6 months, and has just played his best before getting crocked. I’m sure others had written off Douglas too.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villadelph on June 24, 2020, 08:27:24 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on June 24, 2020, 08:23:32 PM
He played for 6 months, and has just played his best before getting crocked. I’m sure others had written off Douglas too.

I know its not his thread.. but what do you see in Wesley?

He can't take on defenders or dribble very well, he isn't a ticky tacky build up player, KD is a better hold-up forward, he genuinely has a difficult time controlling an incoming pass and we were the last team in the league to score a headed goal.

He cost us a small fortune, respective to our financial state, and he produced absolutely nothing.

He was a non-factor in 95% of the matches he played in.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on June 24, 2020, 08:27:30 PM
I lean towards Martin (Risso)'s assessment of Dean Smith but I have a real nagging doubt that he has had his hands tied by the likes of Suso, Pitarch and Purslow.  The transformation of his approach to the game with us to what is used to be with Brentford it is like you are comparing the performances of two different people.  If it is the backroom staff who are fucking up the aquisition of competent players for sane money, it is Smith's fault for not pushing back hard enough.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on June 24, 2020, 08:29:07 PM
Quote from: brian green on June 24, 2020, 08:27:30 PM
I lean towards Martin (Risso)'s assessment of Dean Smith but I have a real nagging doubt that he has had his hands tied by the likes of Suso, Pitarch and Purslow.  The transformation of his approach to the game with us to what is used to be with Brentford it is like you are comparing the performances of two different people.  If it is the backroom staff who are fucking up the aquisition of competent players for sane money, it is Smith's fault for not pushing back hard enough.

I can think of plenty of games where we burned points directly as a result of poor game management from Smith.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 24, 2020, 08:29:42 PM
There’s an element of the tools at his disposal. But the overriding problem is his management of those players. He makes the same mistakes all the time and never appears to learn.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on June 24, 2020, 08:31:58 PM
I agree to an extent but wasn’t the issue at Brentford that his lack of adaptability made them a very streaky team?

It’s not a trait that translates well in the premier league where flexibility of thought and game management are so much more important.

He deserves credit of course for doing what we should have already been doing in the championship and big manning teams with attacking football but now I think he’s a one trick pony and peter principle victim. He just looks so bad compared with almost every other manager he’s up against in this league.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on June 24, 2020, 08:32:10 PM
We all accepted that he had no PL experience to draw on but 31 games later he genuinely doesn't appear to have learned anything.  It's not just that he doesn't know how to solve our problems, it's that he doesn't seem to recognise what some of those problems are.  That he's stuck steadfastly to a tactic that has been proven time after time not to work reflects badly on him, as does the disparity between what we were given to expect about his style and the reality of it.  As others have said, he's massively out of his depth in the PL and his weaknesses have been revealed.  I expect him to be given the poke immediately after the season ends, regardless of where we finish.  To keep him on would be to miss yet another opportunity.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on June 24, 2020, 08:35:28 PM
Quote from: themossman on June 24, 2020, 08:31:58 PM
I agree to an extent but wasn’t the issue at Brentford that his lack of adaptability made them a very streaky team?

Well, his Villa team is very streaky. A big, ten month long shit streak, to be precise.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ASHTONVILLA on June 24, 2020, 08:36:49 PM
Better performance but another chance blown. Smith out.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on June 24, 2020, 08:38:07 PM
525 pages in the Smith Out thread, and counting. How many before we see the back of him? Will we reach 1000?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on June 24, 2020, 08:39:58 PM
3 wins in 19 games. Two draws in last 7.

We're going down with a whimper whichever way you look at it.

I think most fans would just like us to have a go now. We had a go last ten minutes with two strikers and Jack in a free role and I'd like us to start the games like that and see what happens. We can still have three defensive minded midfielders behind and a 4 man defence so really not different shape wise.

We'll probably struggle to win even one game in the run in with way things are currently. Winning once in our last 14 games is certainly going down with a whimper and pretty shambolic.

Really don't see how he could keep his job next season with a record like that. I fear once most of us are let back into VP for games then six months of pent up frustration is going to be let out on someone and I'd hate that to be DS but could well happen if he's still there and we start next season poorly in the championship.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on June 24, 2020, 08:44:00 PM
I agree SoccerHQ.  We look nailed on to be one of those teams who, when relegation is confirmed we play with confidence, imagination and flair when it is too late.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on June 24, 2020, 08:44:16 PM
Thing is he’s done so badly this season, so clearly failed to improve as a manager or get the most out of his resources, that’s he couldn’t possibly be given another go if we got promoted again. So why keep him around for longer than necessary in the championship?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on June 24, 2020, 08:47:55 PM
Quote from: brian green on June 24, 2020, 08:44:00 PM
I agree SoccerHQ.  We look nailed on to be one of those teams who, when relegation is confirmed we play with confidence, imagination and flair when it is too late.

I still wouldn't be surprised if we took it to the last day. West Ham and Bournemouth don't look like they have many wins in them either so if we're 3 points off West Ham we'd still have a slight chance going there on the last day. However given our GD is still worse we could have to go there and win 2 or 3 nil so very slim chance.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on June 24, 2020, 08:57:26 PM
If it goes to the last day, I think we've had it.

This team has a collective heart the size of a pea.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mcgrath_85 on June 24, 2020, 08:59:01 PM
We don’t deserve it to go to the last day at the moment. Nowhere near.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on June 24, 2020, 09:02:07 PM
Quote from: mcgrath_85 on June 24, 2020, 08:59:01 PM
We don’t deserve it to go to the last day at the moment. Nowhere near.

Well if West Ham and Bournemouth hardly win a game themselves in the run in we'll get there by default.

I'd snap your hands off to be two points behind either going into the final day when we've seen many times before odd results can happen.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on June 24, 2020, 09:02:45 PM
More like a lentil than a pea.   What would you give to have a Peter Withe in the side.  Somebody with some balls.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ASHTONVILLA on June 24, 2020, 09:03:45 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on June 24, 2020, 08:47:55 PM
Quote from: brian green on June 24, 2020, 08:44:00 PM
I agree SoccerHQ.  We look nailed on to be one of those teams who, when relegation is confirmed we play with confidence, imagination and flair when it is too late.

I still wouldn't be surprised if we took it to the last day. West Ham and Bournemouth don't look like they have many wins in them either so if we're 3 points off West Ham we'd still have a slight chance going there on the last day. However given our GD is still worse we could have to go there and win 2 or 3 nil so very slim chance.

Depends how relatively heavy both teams lose by in the next few games by. Could see us get closer in GD if we keep the scores down in defeats and West Ham don't
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on June 24, 2020, 09:04:27 PM
Yeah agreed. In the run up to lockdown spam showed they have the balls to put in performances under pressure and we have bottled every big 6 pointer. This team is pathetic.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on June 24, 2020, 09:05:40 PM
Do you remember how Peter Withe was winding up the opposition even before the game kicked off?  If the referee gave him a pull he would wind him up worse.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on June 24, 2020, 09:17:36 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on June 24, 2020, 08:57:26 PM
If it goes to the last day, I think we've had it.

This team has a collective heart the size of a pea.

I think it'll be confirmed way before then.  I'd have good money on 0 points from the next 3 games for a start, with lots of moaning from Smith about not expecting much from teams in the top 6.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on June 24, 2020, 09:20:10 PM
Quote from: Risso on June 24, 2020, 09:17:36 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on June 24, 2020, 08:57:26 PM
If it goes to the last day, I think we've had it.

This team has a collective heart the size of a pea.

I think it'll be confirmed way before then.  I'd have good money on 0 points from the next 3 games for a start, with lots of moaning from Smith about not expecting much from teams in the top 6.

we are literally praying Bournemouth and West Ham are worse than us
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on June 24, 2020, 09:20:46 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on June 24, 2020, 08:38:07 PM
525 pages in the Smith Out thread, and counting. How many before we see the back of him? Will we reach 1000?

It's not the Smith Out thread.

I lean towards replacing him immediately but some of the hyperbole is quite embarrassing.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on June 24, 2020, 09:20:57 PM
Quote from: themossman on June 24, 2020, 09:04:27 PM
Yeah agreed. In the run up to lockdown spam showed they have the balls to put in performances under pressure and we have bottled every big 6 pointer. This team is pathetic.

They've lost 8 of the last 11, what exactly are West Ham showing besides they are shit?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 24, 2020, 09:22:36 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on June 24, 2020, 09:20:57 PM
Quote from: themossman on June 24, 2020, 09:04:27 PM
Yeah agreed. In the run up to lockdown spam showed they have the balls to put in performances under pressure and we have bottled every big 6 pointer. This team is pathetic.

They've lost 8 of the last 11, what exactly are West Ham showing besides they are shit?
Nothing it’s a shit show shoot out, they just happen to have an easier run in.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on June 24, 2020, 09:24:24 PM
And above us.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on June 24, 2020, 09:26:54 PM
West Ham have been worse than us since September, because they are shit.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on June 24, 2020, 09:30:14 PM
Quote from: themossman on June 24, 2020, 09:24:24 PM
And above us.

And are still shit. We are shit we don't deserve it going to the last day, we are showing no fight and so on, and yet somehow a team above us only by GD and in worse form since September are showing more than us, I just don't get that logic.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on June 24, 2020, 09:33:55 PM
Quote from: ASHTONVILLA on June 24, 2020, 09:03:45 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on June 24, 2020, 08:47:55 PM
Quote from: brian green on June 24, 2020, 08:44:00 PM
I agree SoccerHQ.  We look nailed on to be one of those teams who, when relegation is confirmed we play with confidence, imagination and flair when it is too late.

I still wouldn't be surprised if we took it to the last day. West Ham and Bournemouth don't look like they have many wins in them either so if we're 3 points off West Ham we'd still have a slight chance going there on the last day. However given our GD is still worse we could have to go there and win 2 or 3 nil so very slim chance.

Depends how relatively heavy both teams lose by in the next few games by. Could see us get closer in GD if we keep the scores down in defeats and West Ham don't

Seeing how Liverpool are beating a decent Palace team with complete ease I'd be surprised if we didn't concede 4 at Anfield. Will probably concede a few v Man. United now they have all their forwards fit.

Don't have much hope of staying up on GD.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on June 24, 2020, 09:35:37 PM
West Ham are a club owned by pornograhers, we a club created by a Wesleyan Chapel.  Good will always triumph over evil.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on June 24, 2020, 09:36:47 PM
West ham got Newcastle, Norwich and Burnley at home in the run in. We need to hope they only win one of those really. We'd love a fixture like Burnley at home in the run in rather than the ones we've got.

West Ham are poor but their underachieving attacking players will probably get going in some of those games and it will be enough for them to crawl over the line.

Think Bournemouth are done, Calum Wilson picked up his 10th booking so he's got a two match ban now. Rules him out of Newcastle at home which is their most winnable game left.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 24, 2020, 09:37:35 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on June 24, 2020, 09:30:14 PM
Quote from: themossman on June 24, 2020, 09:24:24 PM
And above us.

And are still shit. We are shit we don't deserve it going to the last day, we are showing no fight and so on, and yet somehow a team above us only by GD and in worse form since September are showing more than us, I just don't get that logic.
GBS have ripped the soul out of that club with the move from the Boleyn and pocketed the cash. It’s no real wonder that they are in this mess. I don’t see that changing even if they stay up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Tayls_7 on June 24, 2020, 09:40:07 PM
I'm not in the business of smashing Dean Smith right now but in his post match comments he said he faced criticism for our lack of possession against Chelsea. Something he rationalises by saying they're an established Premier League club. Jesus, we're not facing Premier League clubs are we! No wonder we're shit.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on June 24, 2020, 09:40:56 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on June 24, 2020, 09:36:47 PM
West ham got Newcastle, Norwich and Burnley at home in the run in. We need to hope they only win one of those really. We'd love a fixture like Burnley at home in the run in rather than the ones we've got.

West Ham are poor but their underachieving attacking players will probably get going in some of those games and it will be enough for them to crawl over the line.

Think Bournemouth are done, Calum Wilson picked up his 10th booking so he's got a two match ban now. Rules him out of Newcastle at home which is their most winnable game left.

I'm obviously tempting fate, but West Ham are, and always have been, way more of a clown show that we are. I'm glad it's them we need to finish above.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on June 24, 2020, 09:53:49 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on June 24, 2020, 09:30:14 PM
Quote from: themossman on June 24, 2020, 09:24:24 PM
And above us.

And are still shit. We are shit we don't deserve it going to the last day, we are showing no fight and so on, and yet somehow a team above us only by GD and in worse form since September are showing more than us, I just don't get that logic.

We’re one of 4 shit teams, very slightly shitter over 31 games than 2 of them. I’m not a fan of West Ham by any stretch. In my opinion, and it’s all about opinions, in the handful of games before the break they looked like they had more fight than us and were more likely to either pull a freak result out of the bag than us or just grind their way to survival by staying ahead of us by a point or GD. Hope I’m wrong.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 24, 2020, 09:56:32 PM
I see nothing to suggest we are going to beat teams in the top half. We’re going to need some turnaround in quality and consistency of performance.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on June 24, 2020, 09:59:09 PM
We'll beat Man Utd, Arsenal and West Ham, draw with Palace and Wolves and stay up. If I'm wrong I'll donate £1000
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AlexAlexCropley on June 24, 2020, 10:03:25 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on June 24, 2020, 09:59:09 PM
We'll beat Man Utd, Arsenal and West Ham, draw with Palace and Wolves and stay up. If I'm wrong I'll donate £1000
For real?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 24, 2020, 10:03:49 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on June 24, 2020, 09:59:09 PM
We'll beat Man Utd, Arsenal and West Ham, draw with Palace and Wolves and stay up. If I'm wrong I'll donate £1000
You might as well right the check out now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on June 24, 2020, 10:05:18 PM
I’d imagine a £2 bet will cover that
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on June 24, 2020, 10:05:25 PM
Quote from: AlexAlexCropley on June 24, 2020, 10:03:25 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on June 24, 2020, 09:59:09 PM
We'll beat Man Utd, Arsenal and West Ham, draw with Palace and Wolves and stay up. If I'm wrong I'll donate £1000
For real?

Yes*. Like Alan Partridge, I support three charities: Help for Heroes, the National Trust and Eton College.

*No
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on June 24, 2020, 10:05:59 PM
Hedge that bet Paddy.  It's about 200-1.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on June 24, 2020, 10:06:33 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on June 24, 2020, 10:03:49 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on June 24, 2020, 09:59:09 PM
We'll beat Man Utd, Arsenal and West Ham, draw with Palace and Wolves and stay up. If I'm wrong I'll donate £1000
You might as well right the check out now.

I was thinking of writing a cheque, but I like your way too.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rory on June 24, 2020, 10:07:02 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on June 24, 2020, 09:59:09 PM
We'll beat Man Utd, Arsenal and West Ham, draw with Palace and Wolves and stay up. If I'm wrong I'll donate £1000

Donate £1000 to whom? Can I nominate myself?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on June 24, 2020, 10:07:07 PM
Quote from: brian green on June 24, 2020, 10:05:59 PM
Hedge that bet Paddy.  It's about 200-1.

I'm going to have to put it on now, Brian!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on June 24, 2020, 10:07:40 PM
Quote from: Rory Christopher on June 24, 2020, 10:07:02 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on June 24, 2020, 09:59:09 PM
We'll beat Man Utd, Arsenal and West Ham, draw with Palace and Wolves and stay up. If I'm wrong I'll donate £1000

Donate £1000 to whom? Can I nominate myself?

Yes*

*No
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on June 24, 2020, 10:08:53 PM
This is a really worthy cause

justgiving.com/hookersanddrugsforpws
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Des Little on June 24, 2020, 10:09:16 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on June 24, 2020, 09:59:09 PM
We'll beat Man Utd, Arsenal and West Ham, draw with Palace and Wolves and stay up. If I'm wrong I'll donate £1000

Nurse!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on June 24, 2020, 10:14:05 PM
Smith has many weaknesses as a manager but the main one has to be his inability to proactively make tactical changes to the team mid-game.

We were crying out for a tactical reshuffle at half time, AEG and that dog awful Trez could still be out there and wouldnt have made any impact.

Once Newcastle score, only then does he switch it up. Low and behold we equalise and finish the game very strongly.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Footy-Vill on June 25, 2020, 10:40:09 AM
Yes Smith times like yesterday needed to use the whole 5 subs and throw in another attacker if only for the last 10 minutes.
Tactically there could have been a change.
His biggest mistake v Newcastle was playing Mcginn for more than an hour when it was patentiently clear SJM  was not up to pace and struggle to have any impact

Villa defended well on the whole and it was the lapse in concentration that undid us.
Awful defending by several players . That's not entirely Smith fault. But his handling of McGinn was perhaps the biggest crime yesterday.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on June 25, 2020, 10:41:46 AM
Quote from: Vill I An on June 25, 2020, 10:40:09 AM
Yes Smith times like yesterday needed to use the whole 5 subs and throw in another attacker if only for the last 10 minutes.
Tactically there could have been a change.
His biggest mistake v Newcastle was playing Mcginn for more than an hour when it was patentiently clear SJM  was not up to pace and struggle to have any impact

Villa defended well on the whole and it was the lapse in concentration that undid us.
Awful defending by several players . That's not entirely Smith fault. But his handling of McGinn was perhaps the biggest crime yesterday.



That and starting both AEG and Trez, when neither of them are good enough.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Footy-Vill on June 25, 2020, 10:51:00 AM
Yes actually Trezeguet only on to inject the pace and as a form of rotation.
I think Hourihane or Davis may have been the better starting selection .
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 25, 2020, 10:59:41 AM
Quote from: Risso on June 25, 2020, 10:41:46 AM
Quote from: Vill I An on June 25, 2020, 10:40:09 AM
Yes Smith times like yesterday needed to use the whole 5 subs and throw in another attacker if only for the last 10 minutes.
Tactically there could have been a change.
His biggest mistake v Newcastle was playing Mcginn for more than an hour when it was patentiently clear SJM  was not up to pace and struggle to have any impact

Villa defended well on the whole and it was the lapse in concentration that undid us.
Awful defending by several players . That's not entirely Smith fault. But his handling of McGinn was perhaps the biggest crime yesterday.



That and starting both AEG and Trez, when neither of them are good enough.
Then not hooking  them at half time when it was so obvious how shit their contribution was. At least McGinn was trying to get involved.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on June 25, 2020, 11:06:48 AM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on June 24, 2020, 09:59:09 PM
We'll beat Man Utd, Arsenal and West Ham, draw with Palace and Wolves and stay up. If I'm wrong I'll donate £1000
I agree with you. By the way what do you normally smoke?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on June 25, 2020, 11:07:48 AM
Quote from: olaftab on June 25, 2020, 11:06:48 AM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on June 24, 2020, 09:59:09 PM
We'll beat Man Utd, Arsenal and West Ham, draw with Palace and Wolves and stay up. If I'm wrong I'll donate £1000
I agree with you. By the way what do you normally smoke?

I vape meth.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 25, 2020, 11:08:44 AM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on June 25, 2020, 11:07:48 AM
Quote from: olaftab on June 25, 2020, 11:06:48 AM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on June 24, 2020, 09:59:09 PM
We'll beat Man Utd, Arsenal and West Ham, draw with Palace and Wolves and stay up. If I'm wrong I'll donate £1000
I agree with you. By the way what do you normally smoke?

I vape meth.
Explains a lot.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Meanwood Villa on June 25, 2020, 11:28:11 AM
Will you donate if any of your predictions don't come in SE or just the staying up one?

EDIT-  just seen your other posts on this!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on June 25, 2020, 11:54:03 AM
It's not nice being where we are, if (big if etc) we'd only lost by a goal to Man City we'd be out of the relegation zone. We can still do this, it's in our hands.

He'll make mistakes, he's a young manager. He inherited one squad, achieved something few thought possible and is now hanging on in the top division with a bunch of players thrown together last thing before the season started.

Whether he was involved in the transfers or not, the players we signed have shown potential. I believe we can still do this, Bournemouth and West Ham have not been great either.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Axl Rose on June 25, 2020, 01:29:19 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on June 25, 2020, 11:07:48 AM
Quote from: olaftab on June 25, 2020, 11:06:48 AM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on June 24, 2020, 09:59:09 PM
We'll beat Man Utd, Arsenal and West Ham, draw with Palace and Wolves and stay up. If I'm wrong I'll donate £1000
I agree with you. By the way what do you normally smoke?

I vape meth.

Now you're talking, mate. Something I miss about living in Cambodia. It definitely took the edge off Villa defeats when I was living there during the McLeish season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Axl Rose on June 25, 2020, 01:32:18 PM
Quote from: Drummond on June 25, 2020, 11:54:03 AM
It's not nice being where we are, if (big if etc) we'd only lost by a goal to Man City we'd be out of the relegation zone. We can still do this, it's in our hands.

He'll make mistakes, he's a young manager. He inherited one squad, achieved something few thought possible and is now hanging on in the top division with a bunch of players thrown together last thing before the season started.

Whether he was involved in the transfers or not, the players we signed have shown potential. I believe we can still do this, Bournemouth and West Ham have not been great either.

He has been woeful this year, Drummond. What area of his management can be defended in all honesty?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on June 25, 2020, 02:21:40 PM
He's criticized Konsa publicly for failing to track Gayle's run without mentioning either of the CBs who were drawn completely out of position (especially Mings). Wtf is that about?

Yes Konsa absolutely should have reacted more quickly but if I was in his shoes I'd be pissed off at being publicly called out for failing to cover two wayward CBs who didn't even get mentioned in the interview.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Axl Rose on June 25, 2020, 02:35:56 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on June 25, 2020, 02:21:40 PM
He's criticized Konsa publicly for failing to track Gayle's run without mentioning either of the CBs who were drawn completely out of position (especially Mings). Wtf is that about?

Yes Konsa absolutely should have reacted more quickly but if I was in his shoes I'd be pissed off at being publicly called out for failing to cover two wayward CBs who didn't even get mentioned in the interview.

I'd be pissed off too, mate. Smith showing his utter ineptitude once again. Should be sacked for his third rate performance this season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Des Little on June 25, 2020, 02:40:54 PM
It's poor form to single out any player by name in an interview, and always strikes me of a manager really feeling the heat.  I thought better of Deano than that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on June 25, 2020, 02:50:53 PM
Well Smith chose Konsa while Gary Cahill was also available.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on June 25, 2020, 03:03:35 PM
Quote from: Axl Rose on June 25, 2020, 01:32:18 PM
Quote from: Drummond on June 25, 2020, 11:54:03 AM
It's not nice being where we are, if (big if etc) we'd only lost by a goal to Man City we'd be out of the relegation zone. We can still do this, it's in our hands.

He'll make mistakes, he's a young manager. He inherited one squad, achieved something few thought possible and is now hanging on in the top division with a bunch of players thrown together last thing before the season started.

Whether he was involved in the transfers or not, the players we signed have shown potential. I believe we can still do this, Bournemouth and West Ham have not been great either.

He has been woeful this year, Drummond. What area of his management can be defended in all honesty?
Dean appears to have learned fuck all after 31 games.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Luke8 on June 25, 2020, 03:11:35 PM
Quote from: Des Little on June 25, 2020, 02:40:54 PM
It's poor form to single out any player by name in an interview, and always strikes me of a manager really feeling the heat.  I thought better of Deano than that.

Happens fairly often. Chris Wilder did it to Dean Henderson earlier in the season.

Without the context, I wouldn’t be too bothered by it. Smith has signed him twice, so obviously knows and rates him, so I’d trust that he knows how to manage him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Luke8 on June 25, 2020, 03:13:03 PM
Quote from: Ian J on June 25, 2020, 02:50:53 PM
Well Smith chose Konsa while Gary Cahill was also available.

I think it’s been well covered by it’s not as simple as that. Much bigger cost in wages, no resale value, player wanting to live in London etc.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on June 25, 2020, 04:05:20 PM
Quote from: Luke8 on June 25, 2020, 03:11:35 PM
Quote from: Des Little on June 25, 2020, 02:40:54 PM
It's poor form to single out any player by name in an interview, and always strikes me of a manager really feeling the heat.  I thought better of Deano than that.

Happens fairly often. Chris Wilder did it to Dean Henderson earlier in the season.

Without the context, I wouldn’t be too bothered by it. Smith has signed him twice, so obviously knows and rates him, so I’d trust that he knows how to manage him.

The point is more that he called him out by name while choosing to leave the other two alone (bigger culprits in my view because at least Konsa has the excuse of being played out of position). Either say nothing at all or acknowledge that the entire defence shit the bed for the goal, there's honestly nothing to be gained from criticising a player that's doing a job for you at RB because you don't fancy either of the others in this formation (Smith said himself Guilbert was back in contention).
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on June 25, 2020, 04:57:17 PM
The others were more culpable in your opinion.

But what if Konza had not carried out specific instruction that you were not party to?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on June 25, 2020, 06:38:21 PM
Quote from: LeeB on June 25, 2020, 04:57:17 PM
The others were more culpable in your opinion.

But what if Konza had not carried out specific instruction that you were not party to?

You're right. He obviously didn't set enough traps for Dean's liking.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: gpbarr on June 25, 2020, 06:46:35 PM
The reason we didn’t win that game wasn’t down to Konsa’s error - it was down to the same error that Dean keeps making - picking a side that was not set up to win the game. His passiveness all season has been shocking - AEG and Trezeguet are impact players at best - starting them means we start at least a man down and over 90 mins that’s always going to hurt us.

He has to go.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on June 25, 2020, 07:11:20 PM
Apologies if this has been posted somewhere else, I wonder if the Sean Dyche for us rumours will start up again as it appears he's fallen out with the Burnley powers-that-be.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 25, 2020, 07:21:50 PM
Quote from: Behind Bluenose Lines on June 25, 2020, 07:11:20 PM
Apologies if this has been posted somewhere else, I wonder if the Sean Dyche for us rumours will start up again as it appears he's fallen out with the Burnley powers-that-be.
I sincerely hope that we have set our sights a bit higher than Sean Dyche.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on June 25, 2020, 07:26:19 PM
He's done a good job for them but I'd like to see us break the habit of a lifetime and make a real go of appointing someone of real pedigree, someone to make us think 'Wow they really do mean business.'
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on June 25, 2020, 07:27:37 PM
One trick pony with the formation, I don't think he has a clue what to do other than his tried and trusted, which begs the question, with 1 up front and 2 wingers why did we sign a forward in the summer that can't head the ball?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Luke8 on June 25, 2020, 07:27:56 PM
Quote from: gpbarr on June 25, 2020, 06:46:35 PM
The reason we didn’t win that game wasn’t down to Konsa’s error - it was down to the same error that Dean keeps making - picking a side that was not set up to win the game. His passiveness all season has been shocking - AEG and Trezeguet are impact players at best - starting them means we start at least a man down and over 90 mins that’s always going to hurt us.

He has to go.

All season? We were anything but passive earlier in the season - hence the wide open spaces we were leaving in midfield and the crazy amount of clear chances we were giving away nearly every game.

We have clearly changed set up since the break and looked to become more solid - which has worked - but that has unfortunately come at the expense of some of our attacking threat. However, I would say that in the two games we have drawn we have probably marginally been the better team and certainly had the clearer chances.

I do agree re. Trez and El Ghazi though. They ideally want to be impact subs. But the squad and recruitment is another issue.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on June 25, 2020, 09:57:44 PM
Hmmm a manager like Sean who could stabilise us, move us in the right direction for a couple of seasons, then we can improve on him with a better manager, now why would we do that, let’s keep gambling
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on June 25, 2020, 09:59:26 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on June 25, 2020, 07:26:19 PM
He's done a good job for them but I'd like to see us break the habit of a lifetime and make a real go of appointing someone of real pedigree, someone to make us think 'Wow they really do mean business.'

Because at the moment that “wow” manager probably wouldn’t come to us.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on June 25, 2020, 10:04:08 PM
Bielsa went to Leeds.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on June 25, 2020, 10:08:57 PM
Quote from: Three Spires Villa on June 25, 2020, 09:59:26 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on June 25, 2020, 07:26:19 PM
He's done a good job for them but I'd like to see us break the habit of a lifetime and make a real go of appointing someone of real pedigree, someone to make us think 'Wow they really do mean business.'

Because at the moment that “wow” manager probably wouldn’t come to us.
Maybe not, but we've got to give it our best shot.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on June 25, 2020, 10:19:07 PM
Pochettino went to Spurs
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on June 25, 2020, 10:23:05 PM
Champions League winner Roberto Di Matteo came to Villa
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on June 25, 2020, 10:26:19 PM
If Sean Dyche is prepared to take us on if we drop, then I am all for it as it shows a level of commitment that some would not show. All hypothetical of course.  He gets his teams organised and they work very, very hard for him.  Something us older Villa fans are attuned to, hard work that is.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 25, 2020, 10:30:11 PM
If we are never going to attract the right players or managers or whatever then what is the fucking point.
I hope and believe our owners do not think the same way.
If we want to be a big club then at some point we need to start acting like one.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on June 25, 2020, 10:35:47 PM
Sean Dyche would be the most 'Aston Villa' appointment I could think of. Not in a good way (although we'd be better off than we are now).
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 25, 2020, 10:50:47 PM
It’s the sort of appointment that would say,, we can get, stay in the PL on a low budget.

Which is a bit different to the comments made by this board and why I think it’s bollocks,
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on June 25, 2020, 11:02:10 PM
I'm not interested in manager speculation at this stage. It's obvious nothing will happen until the "summer" at this point, and I honestly doubt the owners have the balls at this point to sack Smith. They (stupidly) gave him a new deal months ago, but still should have sacked him already for the good of the club if they were going to do so. I think they, and Purslow, see Smith's championship pedigree as important if we go down.

Aside from that, even if they do pull the trigger, it seems pointless speculation to decide that Dyche or other would be a good or bad appointment before we see what he would do with us.

We all (vast majority anyway) thought Smith was the answer to our problems, no questions asked, and that even if he didn't succeed in getting us up, he would bring an exciting and dynamic style of play with him. Well he got us up, but that was about the sum of it, and now here we are debating who should replace him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on June 25, 2020, 11:06:39 PM
You used a lot of words to say absolutely nothing there.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on June 25, 2020, 11:12:26 PM
If we stay up and if a manager, such as Sean Dyche cane and we finished 14-10th for two seasons, and then a bigger “name” was employed, and we then pushed on, what’s the issue with that. Of course it is all hypothetical
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan82 on June 25, 2020, 11:15:39 PM
Quote from: Three Spires Villa on June 25, 2020, 11:12:26 PM
If we stay up and if a manager, such as Sean Dyche cane and we finished 14-10th for two seasons, and then a bigger “name” was employed, and we then pushed on, what’s the issue with that. Of course it is all hypothetical

This. Villa needs a few years of stability. It's been a very long time.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tomd2103 on June 25, 2020, 11:17:39 PM
Quote from: Three Spires Villa on June 25, 2020, 11:12:26 PM
If we stay up and if a manager, such as Sean Dyche cane and we finished 14-10th for two seasons, and then a bigger “name” was employed, and we then pushed on, what’s the issue with that. Of course it is all hypothetical

If we do somehow manage to stay up, then I think he will have just about deserved the chance to improve on things next season, although it would be a very short window of opportunity I would think. 

The thought of relegation and the total rebuild that would be required is just a horrible thought really, so I've not even been able to contemplate what would happen in that eventuality,
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on June 25, 2020, 11:27:50 PM
Quote from: tomd2103 on June 25, 2020, 11:17:39 PM
Quote from: Three Spires Villa on June 25, 2020, 11:12:26 PM
If we stay up and if a manager, such as Sean Dyche cane and we finished 14-10th for two seasons, and then a bigger “name” was employed, and we then pushed on, what’s the issue with that. Of course it is all hypothetical

If we do somehow manage to stay up, then I think he will have just about deserved the chance to improve on things next season, although it would be a very short window of opportunity I would think. 

The thought of relegation and the total rebuild that would be required is just a horrible thought really, so I've not even been able to contemplate what would happen in that eventuality,

That’s fair enough, tbh my post was / is about people being against a Sean Dyche type of appointment. As I have said I don’t understand that opinion, but it’s an opinion and fine. I don’t see how we attract a big named manager who plays amazing football, where we are and the FFP that could stop some players coming. I think we need to build from a strong base of experience and that could be Sean. Of course my argument has problems because Bruce should have been that. For what it’s worth I think that Dean should go if we stop up or go down. The whole thing with inexperienced manager, players and coaches has been a problem.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Des Little on June 25, 2020, 11:38:17 PM
I honestly think there should (and will be) a number the managerial set up heading out of the exit this summer, regardless of the outcome - and not necessarily Deano. There’s definitely something not right, and that needs addressing.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on June 25, 2020, 11:47:18 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on June 25, 2020, 11:06:39 PM
You used a lot of words to say absolutely nothing there.

At least I tried. You use very few words to needlessly criticise people on here on a regular basis, so perhaps we balance each other out for effort and impact.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on June 25, 2020, 11:56:58 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on June 25, 2020, 11:47:18 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on June 25, 2020, 11:06:39 PM
You used a lot of words to say absolutely nothing there.

At least I tried. You use very few words to needlessly criticise people on here on a regular basis, so perhaps we balance each other out for effort and impact.

I'm the Yin to your Yap.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on June 25, 2020, 11:58:21 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on June 25, 2020, 10:35:47 PM
Sean Dyche would be the most 'Aston Villa' appointment I could think of. Not in a good way (although we'd be better off than we are now).

His career would end here. His next appointment would be at Reading or Albion, some nothing shit club.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on June 26, 2020, 12:00:06 AM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on June 25, 2020, 11:58:21 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on June 25, 2020, 10:35:47 PM
Sean Dyche would be the most 'Aston Villa' appointment I could think of. Not in a good way (although we'd be better off than we are now).

His career would end here. His next appointment would be at Reading or Albion, some nothing shit club.

Absolutely. We seem to have a deal with the scrapyard. They give us players, we send them broken managers.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on June 26, 2020, 12:35:01 AM
Quote from: Three Spires Villa on June 25, 2020, 09:59:26 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on June 25, 2020, 07:26:19 PM
He's done a good job for them but I'd like to see us break the habit of a lifetime and make a real go of appointing someone of real pedigree, someone to make us think 'Wow they really do mean business.'

Because at the moment that “wow” manager probably wouldn’t come to us.

Depends where we are in a month. If we stay in the premier league then we're still an attractive prospect given what we spent last summer and we get 40k through the gates.

As said Bielsa went to Leeds when they were mid table in the championship.

Nuno went to Wolves in a similar position.

Benitez went to Newcastle when they were about to get relegated but liked what he saw and stayed on.

Ancelotti went to Everton when they were barely above the relegation zone (think we might've been above them at the time).

Our next appointment after DS (whenever that is) is when we'll see the mettle of these owners I think and whether they have a more ambitious mindset than what Lerner and Xia had with their managerial appointments.

Plenty of good managers out of work who've managed in champions league and won trophies in last 3-4 seasons.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tomd2103 on June 26, 2020, 01:28:15 AM
Quote from: Three Spires Villa on June 25, 2020, 11:27:50 PM
Quote from: tomd2103 on June 25, 2020, 11:17:39 PM
Quote from: Three Spires Villa on June 25, 2020, 11:12:26 PM
If we stay up and if a manager, such as Sean Dyche cane and we finished 14-10th for two seasons, and then a bigger “name” was employed, and we then pushed on, what’s the issue with that. Of course it is all hypothetical

If we do somehow manage to stay up, then I think he will have just about deserved the chance to improve on things next season, although it would be a very short window of opportunity I would think. 

The thought of relegation and the total rebuild that would be required is just a horrible thought really, so I've not even been able to contemplate what would happen in that eventuality,

That’s fair enough, tbh my post was / is about people being against a Sean Dyche type of appointment. As I have said I don’t understand that opinion, but it’s an opinion and fine. I don’t see how we attract a big named manager who plays amazing football, where we are and the FFP that could stop some players coming. I think we need to build from a strong base of experience and that could be Sean. Of course my argument has problems because Bruce should have been that. For what it’s worth I think that Dean should go if we stop up or go down. The whole thing with inexperienced manager, players and coaches has been a problem.

Agree with that.  During our recent years in the top flight, we have desperately needed someone to come in for a couple of seasons and steady things.  Many people turn their noses up at the likes of Allardyce, but I can't imagine the football would be worse than some of the absolute dross we have seen served up over the past decade.

I also agree with your comment that Steve Bruce should have been that, but he has a way of playing which might be understandable when matched against top outfits in the Premier League, but not so understandable at home to Rotherham in the Championship.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 26, 2020, 05:41:20 AM
It’s that stability word again, which sounds like unambitious.
Planning to be mediocre is a sure route to failure, there is no steady the ship because all managers bring their own ideas, baggage and payload with them.
I want someone to come in and excite the supporters, attract and retain the  best players and have a go at winning things.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: algy on June 26, 2020, 06:45:37 AM
I'm still in the Smith In camp. People keep saying he's not learning, then in the same breath berate how the one gung ho football has turned in to a more reserved, defensive style. He's clearly been trying things out (eg 3 at the back in January) - maybe they've not always worked, but he was quick to ditch them when it didn't.

Whilst the absolute amount is huge, the squad has been put together on a shoestring by Premier League standards (average <10m/player). That, done at short notice, from a squad who 18 months ago were an aging, mid-table Championship side. We've had (or got) 3 big players out for long spells through injuries - Big Wes, Heaton, SJM. A large section of the squad had never played together less than 12 months ago.

Yet we're still only in the relegation zone by goal difference.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 26, 2020, 07:11:53 AM
Algy, understand that.
Do you honestly believe that someone can be successful in the PL if they are useless at game management?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on June 26, 2020, 07:14:54 AM
I admire your loyalty algy but two words of your apologia for him leap out at me, those words are "not always" worked out. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on June 26, 2020, 07:32:57 AM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on June 26, 2020, 12:35:01 AM
Quote from: Three Spires Villa on June 25, 2020, 09:59:26 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on June 25, 2020, 07:26:19 PM
He's done a good job for them but I'd like to see us break the habit of a lifetime and make a real go of appointing someone of real pedigree, someone to make us think 'Wow they really do mean business.'

Because at the moment that “wow” manager probably wouldn’t come to us.

Depends where we are in a month. If we stay in the premier league then we're still an attractive prospect given what we spent last summer and we get 40k through the gates.

As said Bielsa went to Leeds when they were mid table in the championship.

Nuno went to Wolves in a similar position.

Benitez went to Newcastle when they were about to get relegated but liked what he saw and stayed on.

Ancelotti went to Everton when they were barely above the relegation zone (think we might've been above them at the time).

Our next appointment after DS (whenever that is) is when we'll see the mettle of these owners I think and whether they have a more ambitious mindset than what Lerner and Xia had with their managerial appointments.

Plenty of good managers out of work who've managed in champions league and won trophies in last 3-4 seasons.
This is the example that best emulates where we are and need to be. Everton saw that continually appointing 'okay' managers was getting them nowhere in a continuous cycle of moving up and down the mediocrity zone of the top flight.
The manager is the most important appointment the club can make: why bring in an 'okay' manager when you're trying to compete for honours and a place in European competitions.


So, the question arises: what is this club's ambitions and do we have the manager to deliver them?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: jeowje on June 26, 2020, 07:39:49 AM
He’s had his time, some of it this season has been atrocious. For me it’s not just about game management even, he just doesn't seem to be able to inspire the players to perform to their (albeit limited) potential. But I suppose his stubbornness on formation, Wesley’s perpetual inclusion til injury also despite him being absolute shite, also stick in the craw. I’d be very concerned about him remaining next season, even if we survive to be honest. Just my own feeling.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: curiousorange on June 26, 2020, 07:58:14 AM
Obviously I'd rather be in Burnley's position than ours (in the league, that is), but I can't help but feel if we had Dyche we'd be the Albion. Having a load of six foot four English cloggers isn't much of a step up in my eyes even if it does get you stability.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: RamboandBruno on June 26, 2020, 08:07:55 AM
Quote from: algy on June 26, 2020, 06:45:37 AM
I'm still in the Smith In camp. People keep saying he's not learning, then in the same breath berate how the one gung ho football has turned in to a more reserved, defensive style. He's clearly been trying things out (eg 3 at the back in January) - maybe they've not always worked, but he was quick to ditch them when it didn't.

Whilst the absolute amount is huge, the squad has been put together on a shoestring by Premier League standards (average <10m/player). That, done at short notice, from a squad who 18 months ago were an aging, mid-table Championship side. We've had (or got) 3 big players out for long spells through injuries - Big Wes, Heaton, SJM. A large section of the squad had never played together less than 12 months ago.

Yet we're still only in the relegation zone by goal difference.

Ive supported Smith all the way through, as I do think he did really well last season, despite an awful patch post Xmas and I do think he’s had a few cards stacked against him this season. New inexperienced squad, some poor purchases in hindsight, who probably don’t have the potential to get much better (Trez, Targett, possibly Nakamba).

However, in the few games before lockdown in particular Southampton away, Leicester away, he looked to me like he’d completely lost his way. That seemed the same against Chelsea post lockdown. There were signs in the last part against Newcastle that he may have a found a way to compete for the last few games (2 up top), but it’ll be interesting to see if he’s brave enough to go with that. Anyway I’m probably coming round to thinking if we go down we need him, Terry, Suso to go but even if we stay up maybe that should be his swan song. He got us up and kept us up, so he goes out on a relative high with our thanks, no bitterness and memories of some good times under his tenure.

I think terry needs to go, his half hearted clap for our goal against his beloved Chelsea said everything of where he really wants to be. I think some of the signings will come good, Luiz, possibly Engels, possibly even Wes  with a more experienced striker with him, but on the whole Susos had a shocker and should go.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on June 26, 2020, 08:26:57 AM
Sorry to continue to nit pick but "possibly even Wes"? The most expensive player we have ever signed?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on June 26, 2020, 08:31:46 AM
Quote from: brian green on June 26, 2020, 08:26:57 AM
Sorry to continue to nit pick but "possibly even Wes"? The most expensive player we have ever signed?

The fact that Wesley is our Record signing and the biggest outlay we made this summer kind of underlines the problem both the club and the manager faced putting a side together like they had to.

Two of our more established rivals, West Ham and Newcastle, each paid twice as much for their strikers that have both stunk the place out.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on June 26, 2020, 11:06:21 AM
I hope that the next time a manager leaves us, it's to go and manage the likes of Madrid, Bayern or England.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Billy Walker on June 26, 2020, 11:23:22 AM
Quote from: algy on June 26, 2020, 06:45:37 AM
I'm still in the Smith In camp. People keep saying he's not learning, then in the same breath berate how the one gung ho football has turned in to a more reserved, defensive style. He's clearly been trying things out (eg 3 at the back in January) - maybe they've not always worked, but he was quick to ditch them when it didn't.

Whilst the absolute amount is huge, the squad has been put together on a shoestring by Premier League standards (average <10m/player). That, done at short notice, from a squad who 18 months ago were an aging, mid-table Championship side. We've had (or got) 3 big players out for long spells through injuries - Big Wes, Heaton, SJM. A large section of the squad had never played together less than 12 months ago.

Yet we're still only in the relegation zone by goal difference.


It's all fine margins.  For me, if Deano manages to keep us up it will be an incredible achievement, especially when one considers the context and realties behind our transfer activity last summer.  If we manage to stay up, I'd be fully behind him to oversee the next stage of our rebuild as stability and a sense of a long-term strategy and vision are hugely important.  If we go down, I'm torn.  Maybe then we would need a rethink and an injection of new energy and ideas?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on June 26, 2020, 11:26:08 AM
if he keeps us up he'll have succeeded in both of his seasons, with a cup final thrown in as a bonus. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on June 26, 2020, 11:27:25 AM
And Grealish is still here.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chris Smith on June 26, 2020, 11:41:28 AM
Quote from: LeeB on June 26, 2020, 08:31:46 AM
Quote from: brian green on June 26, 2020, 08:26:57 AM
Sorry to continue to nit pick but "possibly even Wes"? The most expensive player we have ever signed?

The fact that Wesley is our Record signing and the biggest outlay we made this summer kind of underlines the problem both the club and the manager faced putting a side together like they had to.

Two of our more established rivals, West Ham and Newcastle, each paid twice as much for their strikers that have both stunk the place out.

Exactly and is why the comparison with Everton is a little misleading. Ancelotti took over an expensively assembled but under performing established PL club. In comparison we got promoted against the odds and had to rebuild pretty much from scratch. Staying up on goal difference should be seen as a success this season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: luke95 on June 26, 2020, 11:46:53 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on June 26, 2020, 11:26:08 AM
if he keeps us up he'll have succeeded in both of his seasons, with a cup final thrown in as a bonus. 

This with brass knobs on .
We have to give him at least untill the end of the season unless we are relegated before then & then look at him again .
He hasn't failed yet!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Pat Mustard on June 26, 2020, 11:50:28 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on June 26, 2020, 11:26:08 AM
if he keeps us up he'll have succeeded in both of his seasons, with a cup final thrown in as a bonus.

Couldn't agree more - given where we were when he took over, Smith will absolutely have earned the right to another crack next season if we stay up.  Put it this way, he will have effectively achieved more (and in less time), than Graham Taylor did when he took over.

The one thing I would be looking at though is John Terry's role.  Our biggest single failing this season has been defensive organisation and that it surely in his remit.  Get in a much better defensive coach to work with Smith and I think things would look a lot rosier.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on June 26, 2020, 11:52:57 AM
Quote from: Pat Mustard on June 26, 2020, 11:50:28 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on June 26, 2020, 11:26:08 AM
if he keeps us up he'll have succeeded in both of his seasons, with a cup final thrown in as a bonus.

Couldn't agree more - given where we were when he took over, Smith will absolutely have earned the right to another crack next season if we stay up.  Put it this way, he will have effectively achieved more (and in less time), than Graham Taylor did when he took over.

The one thing I would be looking at though is John Terry's role.  Our biggest single failing this season has been defensive organisation and that it surely in his remit.  Get in a much better defensive coach to work with Smith and I think things would look a lot rosier.

The biggest disappointment to me this season has been Terry's (lack of) input. I don't much care about his non-celebration of scoring against Chelsea but our defence should be doing the basics right.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on June 26, 2020, 11:55:54 AM
The club would do well to be rid of Terry in any circumstance.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on June 26, 2020, 11:57:03 AM
I'd argue it's our goal scoring. It must be a bit draining playing in our beleaguered defence knowing that your best likelihood of any points is keeping a clean sheet.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on June 26, 2020, 12:04:21 PM
Does this also mean that if we go down he has failed and should leave?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Pat Mustard on June 26, 2020, 12:09:05 PM
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on June 26, 2020, 11:57:03 AM
I'd argue it's our goal scoring. It must be a bit draining playing in our beleaguered defence knowing that your best likelihood of any points is keeping a clean sheet.

Goalscoring has crept in as the season has gone on, but this is a promoted team that so far has:

Scored first away to Spurs and couldn't hold on
Scored and led twice away to Arsenal and couldn't hold on
Scored first against Liverpool and couldn't hold on
Scored twice at Old Trafford and only drew
Scored twice against Spurs at home and couldn't hold on
Scored first against Chelsea and couldn't hold on

To read some posts you would think we have been getting massacred by every top team we play.  We have actually had enough chances to pick up points against some big teams, but defensively have made individual and collective blunders that don't seem to get any better.  Given we have one of England's most capped centre-halves on our coaching staff, you have to ask what he is doing.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on June 26, 2020, 12:13:24 PM
Quote from: LeeB on June 26, 2020, 08:31:46 AM
Quote from: brian green on June 26, 2020, 08:26:57 AM
Sorry to continue to nit pick but "possibly even Wes"? The most expensive player we have ever signed?

The fact that Wesley is our Record signing and the biggest outlay we made this summer kind of underlines the problem both the club and the manager faced putting a side together like they had to.

Two of our more established rivals, West Ham and Newcastle, each paid twice as much for their strikers that have both stunk the place out.
I'm not prepared to give up on some of the signings - they need a second season and maybe a manager that can get more out of them.
Despite the usual narrative here, Wesley is not a lost cause, unless we get relegated (when he will move on anyway).
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on June 26, 2020, 12:15:42 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on June 26, 2020, 12:04:21 PM
Does this also mean that if we go down he has failed and should leave?

If we go down with all guns blazing I'd be happy to give him a couple of months into the new season, whenever it might start.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on June 26, 2020, 12:18:02 PM
Quote from: Mister E on June 26, 2020, 12:13:24 PM
Quote from: LeeB on June 26, 2020, 08:31:46 AM
Quote from: brian green on June 26, 2020, 08:26:57 AM
Sorry to continue to nit pick but "possibly even Wes"? The most expensive player we have ever signed?

The fact that Wesley is our Record signing and the biggest outlay we made this summer kind of underlines the problem both the club and the manager faced putting a side together like they had to.

Two of our more established rivals, West Ham and Newcastle, each paid twice as much for their strikers that have both stunk the place out.
I'm not prepared to give up on some of the signings - they need a second season and maybe a manager that can get more out of them.
Despite the usual narrative here, Wesley is not a lost cause, unless we get relegated (when he will move on anyway).

difficulty for him to move on if we go down will be finding someone to pay a lot of money and wages

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on June 26, 2020, 12:20:50 PM
Quote from: Chris Smith on June 26, 2020, 11:41:28 AM
Exactly and is why the comparison with Everton is a little misleading. Ancelotti took over an expensively assembled but under performing established PL club. In comparison we got promoted against the odds and had to rebuild pretty much from scratch. Staying up on goal difference should be seen as a success this season.
You're right to challenge the example of Everton.
When I referred to Ancelotti's appointment above, I was thinking less about this season and more about where we might have to go in our thinking next season if we stay up but fail to progress in any meaningful way.

On the point that Dave W, re our defence, I 100% agree that 2 former CB - both our manager and the celebrated coach that we have - should have been able to arrest the sloppiness of our defending (which we've witnessed pretty consistently over several years with several squads). In the EPL, not conceding goals easily is a prerequisite to achieving any aspiration.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on June 26, 2020, 12:33:30 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on June 26, 2020, 12:15:42 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on June 26, 2020, 12:04:21 PM
Does this also mean that if we go down he has failed and should leave?

If we go down with all guns blazing I'd be happy to give him a couple of months into the new season, whenever it might start.

That just doesn't seem to be happening though.  We're going down with all squibs dampening.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on June 26, 2020, 12:55:47 PM
Quote from: Mister E on June 26, 2020, 12:20:50 PM
Quote from: Chris Smith on June 26, 2020, 11:41:28 AM
Exactly and is why the comparison with Everton is a little misleading. Ancelotti took over an expensively assembled but under performing established PL club. In comparison we got promoted against the odds and had to rebuild pretty much from scratch. Staying up on goal difference should be seen as a success this season.
You're right to challenge the example of Everton.
When I referred to Ancelotti's appointment above, I was thinking less about this season and more about where we might have to go in our thinking next season if we stay up but fail to progress in any meaningful way.

On the point that Dave W, re our defence, I 100% agree that 2 former CB - both our manager and the celebrated coach that we have - should have been able to arrest the sloppiness of our defending (which we've witnessed pretty consistently over several years with several squads). In the EPL, not conceding goals easily is a prerequisite to achieving any aspiration.

I fear John Terry is proving that the best players don't necessarily make the best coaches.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave shelley on June 26, 2020, 01:01:08 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on June 26, 2020, 12:55:47 PM
Quote from: Mister E on June 26, 2020, 12:20:50 PM
Quote from: Chris Smith on June 26, 2020, 11:41:28 AM
Exactly and is why the comparison with Everton is a little misleading. Ancelotti took over an expensively assembled but under performing established PL club. In comparison we got promoted against the odds and had to rebuild pretty much from scratch. Staying up on goal difference should be seen as a success this season.
You're right to challenge the example of Everton.
When I referred to Ancelotti's appointment above, I was thinking less about this season and more about where we might have to go in our thinking next season if we stay up but fail to progress in any meaningful way.

On the point that Dave W, re our defence, I 100% agree that 2 former CB - both our manager and the celebrated coach that we have - should have been able to arrest the sloppiness of our defending (which we've witnessed pretty consistently over several years with several squads). In the EPL, not conceding goals easily is a prerequisite to achieving any aspiration.

I fear John Terry is proving that the best players don't necessarily make the best coaches.

See Charlton R.  And Ince P. As two to be starting with.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on June 26, 2020, 01:10:56 PM
I can see a career similar to that of another heroic club and country Terry, Butcher.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Billy Walker on June 26, 2020, 01:28:26 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on June 26, 2020, 11:26:08 AM
if he keeps us up he'll have succeeded in both of his seasons, with a cup final thrown in as a bonus. 

Yep, it would be a fantastic achievement in the space of twenty-ish months.  I'm willing him and the boys to see it through.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: gpbarr on June 26, 2020, 01:32:10 PM
Hannes Wolf, Florian Khofeldt, Julian Nagelsmann.

Once the club does the right thing, one of those three would be a breath of fresh air the club needs. I'll despair if we go for someone like Dyche
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on June 26, 2020, 01:35:31 PM
Quote from: gpbarr on June 26, 2020, 01:32:10 PM
Hannes Wolf, Florian Khofeldt, Julian Nagelsmann.

Once the club does the right thing, one of those three would be a breath of fresh air the club needs. I'll despair if we go for someone like Dyche

I'll question how our owners accumulated their wealth if they approve an appointment like Dyche.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Simon Page on June 26, 2020, 01:43:32 PM
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on June 26, 2020, 01:10:56 PM
I can see a career similar to that of another heroic club and country Terry, Butcher.

Somehow I can't see John Terry washing up in the Moray Firth. TV beckons, a la Andy Gray.

In all seriousness, do we know he's not a decent coach in the making? I know we aren't very good, but we seem to have placed that at the clipboard of John Terry when there could be many reasons.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: curiousorange on June 26, 2020, 02:12:15 PM
Boils my piss whenever people defend Terry's coaching by saying he doesn't have overall responsibility for the defence. Yeah, maybe so, but he's one of the best defenders the country has produced and a head coach at the club. I would like to think he has advice to offer and influence over the team as a whole.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on June 26, 2020, 02:18:34 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on June 26, 2020, 12:15:42 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on June 26, 2020, 12:04:21 PM
Does this also mean that if we go down he has failed and should leave?

If we go down with all guns blazing I'd be happy to give him a couple of months into the new season, whenever it might start.

Yes. If we won three more games but likes of Watford, West Ham and bournemouth all went on mass winning streaks and we still went down I imagine that would keep him here for August as at least we'd have gone down fighting.

If we go down without winning a game in run in and ending 7-8 points adrift of 17th can't really see what grounds DS would have for staying on as we've been awful since mid January pretty much. Also couldn't take our cup performances into league performances when you think how abject we were at Bournemouth, three days after the Leicester second leg. That result could really hurt us once it's all done.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: RamboandBruno on June 26, 2020, 02:36:31 PM
Quote from: brian green on June 26, 2020, 08:26:57 AM
Sorry to continue to nit pick but "possibly even Wes"? The most expensive player we have ever signed?
I think you are nit picking a little bit Brian. I just made a comment about the players that we bought in the summer that might possibly come good over time and those that I personally just don’t think are good enough (even then not sure about Targett as I think he’s ok going forward).
I think the price tag of Wesley is completely irrelevant in the context, it was quite clear from the first match he was wet behind the ears and untried at this level. He might never come good, but he showed the odd rare glimpse here and there.

It may be at odds to what else I said in the earlier post but I’m glad there’s sympathy for Smith in recent posts, makes a change from the usual relentless barrage
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Simon Page on June 26, 2020, 02:36:48 PM
For clarity, I wasn't defending anyone (a bit like...), merely asking if we KNOW he's the/a major problem.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on June 26, 2020, 02:55:26 PM
Dean Smith: “People keep talking about playing two up front but it's very difficult to play two up front & keep Jack Grealish on the pitch. Jack's one of our talisman so we worked a situation (at Newcastle) where Jack could play in behind Keinan & Ally.

You have to be careful because there's a big shift for the midfielders then. Their out ball will always be the full-backs. It's funny, you put two up front and you go from back to front too quickly.

I still thought we needed to go through our midfielders and, once we did that, we were much more of a threat. What we've got to do is convert our chances. The confidence hasn't diminished. The dressing room's a tight dressing room.”

Via @villareport on Twitter

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on June 26, 2020, 03:10:45 PM
I don't want rid of Smith. I know I've a record of defending managers and wanting to give them more time and that whatever, if you take that view you'll always be proven wrong at some point!

We've made 19 managerial appointments since we last won the league and had 9 in the last decade alone. We're a big club, wanting big success, and yet we don't allow anyone the time to get in and do anything; Smith has been in his role for two part seasons and had one pre-season in that period where we had about a dozen players in and the same out.

If he'd not been promoted last season, and let's face it that was an unlikely target when he took over, I'd agree with criticism of him if we weren't top 2 in the Championship. I think there is a lot of mitigation for this season and I'd like him to be given next as well. If you look back at the comments when he was appointed, it was far more favourable than pretty much any appointment since MON with many people saying he was the best thing ever now having changed their minds. Surely all that caused that positivity can't have gone already?

There are issues with the way we set up at times, I'd agree, yet given the resources at his disposal, there isn't a great deal more that he could have done. We'll keep the vast majority of our squad even if we do go down, and they'll be better for knowing each other. I suspect Grealish will go regardless and possibly one or two others as well but the revenue from those sales will allow good investment. Yet again though we'll need to identify targets for two different divisions.

I think he's done okay considering where we were. Give him time to develop with his squad and ideas.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on June 26, 2020, 03:20:42 PM
John Terry is probably here until he decides he really wants to become a manager right now.

Perhaps the club might start encouraging him a bit more to apply for any vacancies this summer, there was talk of Boro job about 18 months back I think and that might be available again in the summer. Unless he thinks he's in line to get it here once DS is no more but can't see anything but him getting it as a caretaker.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on June 26, 2020, 03:27:18 PM
Is there any chatter anywhere about how (and what) Terry has done in his coaching role with us? There is a weird lack of evidence either way - very little back-biting around him but also it doesn't seem like the players ever mention him - or have I missed this? It just seems weird for such a big character to be so anonymous within the set up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chris Smith on June 26, 2020, 03:35:03 PM
Quote from: gpbarr on June 26, 2020, 01:32:10 PM
Hannes Wolf, Florian Khofeldt, Julian Nagelsmann.

Isn’t that the current Kraftwerk line up?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villadelph on June 26, 2020, 03:53:33 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on June 26, 2020, 02:55:26 PM
Dean Smith: “People keep talking about playing two up front but it's very difficult to play two up front & keep Jack Grealish on the pitch. Jack's one of our talisman so we worked a situation (at Newcastle) where Jack could play in behind Keinan & Ally.”

Via @villareport on Twitter

“So, I isolate him out on the left side and hope there’s a single unproven striker between 3 defenders on the other end of his pass..”

Stubborn fool.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on June 26, 2020, 03:59:04 PM
Quote from: tomd2103 on June 26, 2020, 01:28:15 AM
Quote from: Three Spires Villa on June 25, 2020, 11:27:50 PM
Quote from: tomd2103 on June 25, 2020, 11:17:39 PM
Quote from: Three Spires Villa on June 25, 2020, 11:12:26 PM
If we stay up and if a manager, such as Sean Dyche cane and we finished 14-10th for two seasons, and then a bigger “name” was employed, and we then pushed on, what’s the issue with that. Of course it is all hypothetical

If we do somehow manage to stay up, then I think he will have just about deserved the chance to improve on things next season, although it would be a very short window of opportunity I would think. 

The thought of relegation and the total rebuild that would be required is just a horrible thought really, so I've not even been able to contemplate what would happen in that eventuality,

That’s fair enough, tbh my post was / is about people being against a Sean Dyche type of appointment. As I have said I don’t understand that opinion, but it’s an opinion and fine. I don’t see how we attract a big named manager who plays amazing football, where we are and the FFP that could stop some players coming. I think we need to build from a strong base of experience and that could be Sean. Of course my argument has problems because Bruce should have been that. For what it’s worth I think that Dean should go if we stop up or go down. The whole thing with inexperienced manager, players and coaches has been a problem.

Agree with that.  During our recent years in the top flight, we have desperately needed someone to come in for a couple of seasons and steady things.  Many people turn their noses up at the likes of Allardyce, but I can't imagine the football would be worse than some of the absolute dross we have seen served up over the past decade.

I also agree with your comment that Steve Bruce should have been that, but he has a way of playing which might be understandable when matched against top outfits in the Premier League, but not so understandable at home to Rotherham in the Championship.


You can't compare Allardyce and Bruce. Bruce has been relegated from the Premier League as a manager. Allardyce has never been relegated from the Premier League. He kept Bolton, Newcastle ,Blackburn and Sunderland up against the odds. All four were relegated after he left. He also kept Palace and Everton up who were both looking nailed on for relegation before he took over mid season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on June 26, 2020, 08:01:36 PM
So you'd rate him over Nan's Hair then ?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KevinGage on June 26, 2020, 08:08:54 PM
Quote from: curiousorange on June 26, 2020, 02:12:15 PM
Boils my piss whenever people defend Terry's coaching by saying he doesn't have overall responsibility for the defence. Yeah, maybe so, but he's one of the best defenders the country has produced and a head coach at the club. I would like to think he has advice to offer and influence over the team as a whole.

Aye. But what if the head coach says scrap that?   Terry wasn't Smith's choice ultimately as an assistant. He tolerated the situation to get the job he wants.  Maybe he listens to Terry, maybe he doesn't.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 26, 2020, 09:19:35 PM
We have no idea what Terrys involvement influence is, what we do know is that he reports to Smith.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: curiousorange on June 26, 2020, 09:21:52 PM
Why would Terry have stayed as an assistant for so long if he was being ignored?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 26, 2020, 09:25:17 PM
Quote from: curiousorange on June 26, 2020, 09:21:52 PM
Why would Terry have stayed as an assistant for so long if he was being ignored?
Who said he was being ignored?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: curiousorange on June 26, 2020, 09:29:06 PM
Comment above said that maybe Smith listens to him, maybe he doesn't. That would be a strange way to operate.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on June 26, 2020, 09:30:42 PM
I always think it is pointless to debate how good or bad the assistant manager/number two is as nobody really knows the dynamic and what they do or don't do and what say they do or don't have. It must be a thankless task being a number two. If the team is doing well the manager gets all the credit. If the team are struggling the manager gets most of the stick but the assistant gets criticized and questioned too.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on June 26, 2020, 09:33:21 PM
Quote from: Damo70 on June 26, 2020, 09:30:42 PM
I always think it is pointless to debate how good or bad the assistant manager/number two is as nobody really knows the dynamic and what they do or don't do and what say they do or don't have. It must be a thankless task being a number two. If the team is doing well the manager gets all the credit. If the team are struggling the manager gets most of the stick but the assistant gets criticized and questioned too.

I agree that it's difficult to judge him as a coach. An open and shutcase, however, when judging him as a human. I really wish he'd fuck off.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on June 26, 2020, 09:36:29 PM
Quote from: curiousorange on June 26, 2020, 09:29:06 PM
Comment above said that maybe Smith listens to him, maybe he doesn't. That would be a strange way to operate.


I am sure Smith listens to every single word Terry says. I would think the question is how much of that advice Smith chooses to agree with, take on board and act on and how much advice he chooses to ignore.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on June 26, 2020, 10:11:18 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on June 26, 2020, 09:33:21 PM
Quote from: Damo70 on June 26, 2020, 09:30:42 PM
I always think it is pointless to debate how good or bad the assistant manager/number two is as nobody really knows the dynamic and what they do or don't do and what say they do or don't have. It must be a thankless task being a number two. If the team is doing well the manager gets all the credit. If the team are struggling the manager gets most of the stick but the assistant gets criticized and questioned too.

I agree that it's difficult to judge him as a coach. An open and shutcase, however, when judging him as a human. I really wish he'd fuck off.

Is he not redeemable ?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on June 26, 2020, 10:12:26 PM
Quote from: eamonn on June 26, 2020, 10:11:18 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on June 26, 2020, 09:33:21 PM
Quote from: Damo70 on June 26, 2020, 09:30:42 PM
I always think it is pointless to debate how good or bad the assistant manager/number two is as nobody really knows the dynamic and what they do or don't do and what say they do or don't have. It must be a thankless task being a number two. If the team is doing well the manager gets all the credit. If the team are struggling the manager gets most of the stick but the assistant gets criticized and questioned too.

I agree that it's difficult to judge him as a coach. An open and shutcase, however, when judging him as a human. I really wish he'd fuck off.

Is he not redeemable ?

He can redeem himself elsewhere.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on June 26, 2020, 10:51:26 PM
when Smith first arrived you could see the difference in our playing style immediately
it wasn't always successful results wise but you could see what he was trying to do
pass and move, quick free kicks keep possession, front foot football even when taking a risk was sometimes costly

i was excited at last we had a manger who knew what he was doing, and taking us in the right direction
oh i thought when he brings his own players in who will be hand picked to play the way he wants we will have a proper football team worth watching

what happened, i have no idea what his playing style is now or where he is trying to go with any sort of tactics or formations
every game i'm thinking what on earth are we trying to do here
the whole thing is a shambles

he has morphed into every British manager we ever had and some foreign ones to over the last 8 years
i'm so disappointed
and not because we are fighting relegation and our results are poor that to some degree was expected
but because we look lost, the manager looks lost

he doesn't seem to be able to motivate the players for big winnable games either before the match or at half time
and his use and timings of subs to change a game in our favour is awful, and i'm trying to be kind

its not working and i don't think he can turn it round into what i was hoping it was going to be when he first arrived
i like Dean Smith i obviously want him to be successful with us
but i have sadly lost faith in him

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on June 26, 2020, 10:56:18 PM
The players on the pitch aren't good enough. Whoever signed them (and I doubt that it was Smith, largely) needs to take ultimate responsibility.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on June 26, 2020, 11:21:17 PM
I’m a bit worried he thinks having two up front means you can’t squeeze Jack in. You watch Jack sign for someone this summer on a record fee and sit behind two strikers.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Axl Rose on June 26, 2020, 11:48:58 PM
Quote from: Ian J on June 26, 2020, 11:21:17 PM
I’m a bit worried he thinks having two up front means you can’t squeeze Jack in. You watch Jack sign for someone this summer on a record fee and sit behind two strikers.

Smith is deluded. I'd use the word 'coward', but it seems to set some people off.

The bloke doesn't know his best formation (and it's almost the end of the season!), and appears to have fewer tactics than the potato.

It'll be a relief when he's relieved of his duties.

Boring, clueless football. Boring, clueless players. Not a good recipe.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 27, 2020, 04:40:59 AM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on June 26, 2020, 10:56:18 PM
The players on the pitch aren't good enough. Whoever signed them (and I doubt that it was Smith, largely) needs to take ultimate responsibility.
I agree, I also agree with John e above as theses points are not mutually exclusive.
despite some of the recruitment failing, Smith has failed to get enough out of the players that he has had available.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 27, 2020, 06:06:23 AM
Quote from: Ian J on June 26, 2020, 11:21:17 PM
I’m a bit worried he thinks having two up front means you can’t squeeze Jack in. You watch Jack sign for someone this summer on a record fee and sit behind two strikers.
Makes no sense, he could even play jack as one of them.
Most managers  would be trying to work out how to get the most out of their best player. I doubt if any of them would play Jack out wide.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: geolex on June 27, 2020, 07:39:23 AM
Quote from: brontebilly on June 24, 2020, 10:14:05 PM
Smith has many weaknesses as a manager but the main one has to be his inability to proactively make tactical changes to the team mid-game.

We were crying out for a tactical reshuffle at half time, AEG and that dog awful Trez could still be out there and wouldnt have made any impact.

Once Newcastle score, only then does he switch it up. Low and behold we equalise and finish the game very strongly.


That is the most frightening part of this post .... i agree BTW
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: geolex on June 27, 2020, 07:59:37 AM
Quote from: Pat Mustard on June 26, 2020, 11:50:28 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on June 26, 2020, 11:26:08 AM
if he keeps us up he'll have succeeded in both of his seasons, with a cup final thrown in as a bonus.

Couldn't agree more - given where we were when he took over, Smith will absolutely have earned the right to another crack next season if we stay up.  Put it this way, he will have effectively achieved more (and in less time), than Graham Taylor did when he took over.

The one thing I would be looking at though is John Terry's role.  Our biggest single failing this season has been defensive organisation and that it surely in his remit.  Get in a much better defensive coach to work with Smith and I think things would look a lot rosier.
"if we stay up"   look forward to finishing 2nd next season GT did
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on June 27, 2020, 08:23:48 AM
Dean got a pass this season by getting us up, largely thanks to the signing of Mings and the return of Jack.  The signings have been poor and that is coupled with Dean's lack of getting the best out of them, motivating them and not knowing his best team.  It also doesn't excuse some of the awful tactics deployed this season, the intransigent thinking and lack of ability to get one over more experienced managers.  If he keeps us up, he'll have done ok. But we need an upgrade on him if we are to move forward because I doubt he will attract the type of players we need.  I also think he has been heavily involved in recruitment as Suso wouldn't have worked on his own for some of the shit we have bought.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on June 27, 2020, 10:43:59 AM
We’re a couple of players short in terms of quality whenever we step onto the pitch, which is part due to the size of the recruitment needed at the end of the summer, the reduced time we had to do it, and the quality of the players signed.

Whatever he does tactically, he’s always got that handicap. How much of that he’s responsible for is up for debate.

That situation was bought about be the hopeless mis-management of the club by the predecessors, which had left us with a hopelessly lopsided squad, half of which were out of contract at the end of the season. That he indentified a left back that had hardly played in 3 years as the man to sort out our defence is to his credit, not a stick to beat him with.

The fact we got up at all last season was a minor miracle given the circumstances, and this season was always going to be a struggle, which it has, but we wouldn’t have the chance to struggle without the manager achieving what he did last year. It should not be forgotten.

Anyway, we’re going to stay up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: fbriai on June 27, 2020, 10:49:32 AM
I'm with you, Lee.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on June 27, 2020, 11:09:08 AM
Quote from: LeeB on June 27, 2020, 10:43:59 AM
We’re a couple of players short in terms of quality whenever we step onto the pitch, which is part due to the size of the recruitment needed at the end of the summer, the reduced time we had to do it, and the quality of the players signed.

Whatever he does tactically, he’s always got that handicap. How much of that he’s responsible for is up for debate.

That situation was bought about be the hopeless mis-management of the club by the predecessors, which had left us with a hopelessly lopsided squad, half of which were out of contract at the end of the season. That he indentified a left back that had hardly played in 3 years as the man to sort out our defence is to his credit, not a stick to beat him with.

The fact we got up at all last season was a minor miracle given the circumstances, and this season was always going to be a struggle, which it has, but we wouldn’t have the chance to struggle without the manager achieving what he did last year. It should not be forgotten.

Anyway, we’re going to stay up.

I'm not sure the management this season has been much better.  They kept an average Championship manager in place, then gave him an extended contract.  They foisted John Terry on Smith, and a Director of Football with no experience or knowledge of English football.  The way they went about the transfer business has been really poor, and a blind man could see that having Wesley as our only front line striker was going to end in tears.  January was a really disappointing transfer window.  Not impressed, one bit. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on June 27, 2020, 11:11:53 AM
Quote from: Risso on June 27, 2020, 11:09:08 AM
Quote from: LeeB on June 27, 2020, 10:43:59 AM
We’re a couple of players short in terms of quality whenever we step onto the pitch, which is part due to the size of the recruitment needed at the end of the summer, the reduced time we had to do it, and the quality of the players signed.

Whatever he does tactically, he’s always got that handicap. How much of that he’s responsible for is up for debate.

That situation was bought about be the hopeless mis-management of the club by the predecessors, which had left us with a hopelessly lopsided squad, half of which were out of contract at the end of the season. That he indentified a left back that had hardly played in 3 years as the man to sort out our defence is to his credit, not a stick to beat him with.

The fact we got up at all last season was a minor miracle given the circumstances, and this season was always going to be a struggle, which it has, but we wouldn’t have the chance to struggle without the manager achieving what he did last year. It should not be forgotten.

Anyway, we’re going to stay up.

I'm not sure the management this season has been much better.  They kept an average Championship manager in place, then gave him an extended contract.  They foisted John Terry on Smith, and a Director of Football with no experience or knowledge of English football.  The way they went about the transfer business has been really poor, and a blind man could see that having Wesley as our only front line striker was going to end in tears.  January was a really disappointing transfer window.  Not impressed, one bit. 

But apart from that, you are reasonably happy.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on June 27, 2020, 11:19:18 AM
One thing's for sure, Dean's not a quick learner.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT on June 27, 2020, 11:25:09 AM
The sad thing is we expected to try and win every game, always be on the front foot.

Clearly that isn’t always possible, but we’ve retreated as far back defensively as anything served up by Bruce etc. The pressing philosophy has stopped, and now we give the opposition time while we trot around.

I still think there are players out there who could not look into a mirror after a game and say they gave everything they had for the cause, and that doesn’t help Dean one bit.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villadelph on June 27, 2020, 01:44:27 PM
so he finally caved to the pressure and goes with two strikers.. only to put out a team completely devoid of any width with three CMs behind Jack.

This guy man.. what on earth is he thinking sometimes? It’s almost like he wanted to say I told you so.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on June 27, 2020, 02:29:07 PM
Just sack him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: DB on June 27, 2020, 02:30:51 PM
Get a manager in now to see what he has to deal with before the end of the season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on June 27, 2020, 02:32:59 PM
Depressingly out of his depth. 2 points from 12 since the restart and literally zero sign we have improved at all.



Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on June 27, 2020, 02:33:31 PM
Quote from: villadelph on June 27, 2020, 01:44:27 PM
so he finally caved to the pressure and goes with two strikers.. only to put out a team completely devoid of any width with three CMs behind Jack.

This guy man.. what on earth is he thinking sometimes? It’s almost like he wanted to say I told you so.

I didn't have a problem with the team today. 4-3-3 hasn't been working for a long old while either and we couldn't have foreseen Targett geting injured so early who would've got crosses in.

Would love to know what training schedule Samatta was on during lockdown as he's looked next to useless since we came back, long way from his promising early games.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TonyD on June 27, 2020, 02:33:42 PM
We have had our fair share of shit charlatan managers for years.  But at least most of them had some kind of a system or could at least motivate.  Smith has nothing, nada, ziltch, sweet FA.   We have also been cursed with dreadfully negligent owners. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: wince on June 27, 2020, 02:33:51 PM
I don’t care if it triggers people. The whole team stinks of cowardice. Most look like they don’t want to be there and smith looks likes he is out of his depth. 19 losses, 19th in table. Thanks for promotion but it didn’t do anything did it? Gash from first day and once again we make a terrible appointment that only serves us in the short term.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 27, 2020, 02:38:14 PM
He has to go. It’s like the team has never met, let alone been coached. We are strolling to relegation.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on June 27, 2020, 02:48:05 PM
He looks like all Villa managers do at the end. A zombie. He has nothing left to offer which is why we look the same week after week. And that we will stick by him makes me believe the club executives are comatose too.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on June 27, 2020, 02:48:22 PM
He's a bang average Championship manager who was given the keys to the sweet shop in a lower league last year.  This year he's been found wanting by any criteria you could mention.  Absolutely dreadful manager, watching him standing there, arms folded with a gormless expression of resignation on his face while another game fizzles out to a depressing defeat is embarrassing.  Just go.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on June 27, 2020, 02:50:36 PM
Needs to go ASAP.

I'm not even angry anymore, he's squeezed all that out of me, I'm just depressed at the state of the club after 1 season when we started it with such belief.

Purslow's comments about not just wanting to survive but bringing the game to the bigger teams and wanting to push on as a club are beyond laughable now. If he has any integrity at all as a CEO he'll be on the phone to Sawiris and Edens right now and handing Smith his pink slip this evening.

Sadly, for some reason, I don't think that's happening.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on June 27, 2020, 02:50:39 PM
Still don't see him getting sacked while we have chance of staying up. Club made decision in December to back him when we weren't looking too clever and then when it seemed Chelsea in March was going to be make or break the virus put the brakes on that.

What I couldn't understand though is if he keeps his job with us pretty much losing every game in the run in. We'd go down with a record along the lines of something like losing 12 of our last 15 games.

When things get that bad you need a fresh voice. Cardiff kept Warnock after they went down but he didn't last long this season and they've picked up again since and are now in the top 6.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 27, 2020, 02:52:04 PM
Time has to be up now. It has to be. It’s been 9 games since we won in the league. It is unacceptable.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan82 on June 27, 2020, 02:52:24 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on June 27, 2020, 02:50:36 PM
Needs to go ASAP.

I'm not even angry anymore, he's squeezed all that out of me, I'm just depressed at the state of the club after 1 season when we started it with such belief.

Purslow's comments about not just wanting to survive but bringing the game to the bigger teams and wanting to push on as a club are beyond laughable now. If he has any integrity at all as a CEO he'll be on the phone to Sawiris and Edens right now and handing Smith his pink slip this evening.

Sadly, for some reason, I don't think that's happening.

Smith should have been sacked mid-way through the season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: myf on June 27, 2020, 02:53:18 PM
he's blaming 4 games in 10 days now. looks and sounds more like Bruce by the day
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on June 27, 2020, 02:55:49 PM
Smith: "We're disappointed. It looked as if it was going to be a 0-0 game. I felt we matched a top 6 team today."
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on June 27, 2020, 02:57:00 PM
Such a fucking passive white flag waving subservient comment
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 27, 2020, 02:57:21 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on June 27, 2020, 02:55:49 PM
Smith: "We're disappointed. It looked as if it was going to be a 0-0 game. I felt we matched a top 6 team today."

Christ almighty.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: wince on June 27, 2020, 02:58:06 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on June 27, 2020, 02:55:49 PM
Smith: "We're disappointed. It looked as if it was going to be a 0-0 game. I felt we matched a top 6 team today."

Playing for a 0-0 when we need all three. Dean, you are one of us mate but you are done here. Disappointed is when you spill your pint. Fucking devastated is when you drop another 3 points. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tomd2103 on June 27, 2020, 02:58:39 PM
Quote from: TonyD on June 27, 2020, 02:33:42 PM
We have had our fair share of shit charlatan managers for years.  But at least most of them had some kind of a system or could at least motivate.  Smith has nothing, nada, ziltch, sweet FA.   We have also been cursed with dreadfully negligent owners.

Very unfair to call him a charlatan, as that would suggest that he couldn’t care less and is milking the club.  Just think it looks like he has gone as far as he can and doesn’t really know how to turn things around. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on June 27, 2020, 02:59:18 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on June 27, 2020, 02:57:21 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on June 27, 2020, 02:55:49 PM
Smith: "We're disappointed. It looked as if it was going to be a 0-0 game. I felt we matched a top 6 team today."

Christ almighty.

Jesus Christ.  No wonder there's no energy when he comes out with stuff like that.  They were in the Championship the same as us a couple of years ago, but have a good manager and bought some good players, while we got a non-entity and a load of dreadful players.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on June 27, 2020, 02:59:26 PM
I don't think there is any point in making a change now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sirlordbaltimore on June 27, 2020, 02:59:36 PM

Not sure there would be any point firing them right now but whatever happens, they've all got to go in the summer. All of them.

It's not working and even if a miracle happens and we stay up they certainly can't be given anymore time in charge
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: David_Nab on June 27, 2020, 02:59:47 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on June 27, 2020, 02:55:49 PM
Smith: "We're disappointed. It looked as if it was going to be a 0-0 game. I felt we matched a top 6 team today."

He has played for a draw against Chelsea and Wolves and lost , which might have been acceptable if we could of beaten Shef Un and Newcastle but we failed against both of them.He has lost it , this idea he will turn it around is unfounded it rarely happens does it , once the momentum is downwards teams make a change

For me we slide of out league slowly without trying or we sack him and at least try something !!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 27, 2020, 03:00:04 PM
We didn’t match them. They just did what they needed to. We fucking need to win games. Dean’s attitude is so defeatist. We need a change.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mcgrath_85 on June 27, 2020, 03:00:39 PM
Should have gone in January. Embarrassing that he’s still here. It’ll cost us for years.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mcgrath_85 on June 27, 2020, 03:02:42 PM
Quote from: sirlordbaltimore on June 27, 2020, 02:59:36 PM

Not sure there would be any point firing them right now but whatever happens, they've all got to go in the summer. All of them.

It's not working and even if a miracle happens and we stay up they certainly can't be given anymore time in charge

Perhaps we could sack him and try to stay in the league.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan82 on June 27, 2020, 03:03:00 PM
All that bullshit last year: 'we're Aston Villa, we organise open top bus tours when we win a trophy, not when we gain promotion', 'we won't be there to make up the numbers' etc. etc.

Yet, we accept utter shite and haven't taken action to preserve our premier league status. Fuming.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Bobby Boy on June 27, 2020, 03:03:29 PM
Quote from: Risso on June 27, 2020, 02:59:18 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on June 27, 2020, 02:57:21 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on June 27, 2020, 02:55:49 PM
Smith: "We're disappointed. It looked as if it was going to be a 0-0 game. I felt we matched a top 6 team today."

Christ almighty.

Jesus Christ.  No wonder there's no energy when he comes out with stuff like that.  They were in the Championship the same as us a couple of years ago, but have a good manager and bought some good players, while we got a non-entity and a load of dreadful players.

One soft shot on target in 90 minutes, Dean! For heavens sake man.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 27, 2020, 03:04:33 PM
Quote from: Ads on June 27, 2020, 02:59:26 PM
I don't think there is any point in making a change now.
Quote from: Risso on June 27, 2020, 02:59:18 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on June 27, 2020, 02:57:21 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on June 27, 2020, 02:55:49 PM
Smith: "We're disappointed. It looked as if it was going to be a 0-0 game. I felt we matched a top 6 team today."

Christ almighty.

Jesus Christ.  No wonder there's no energy when he comes out with stuff like that.  They were in the Championship the same as us a couple of years ago, but have a good manager and bought some good players, while we got a non-entity and a load of dreadful players.

Also that suggests he was happy and going for 0-0. Unacceptable.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on June 27, 2020, 03:04:39 PM
When the manager is coming out with bollocks like that is it any wonder the players are the same. Fucking pathetic
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Richard E on June 27, 2020, 03:05:05 PM
He should have been shown the door after the 3-0 at Watford in December.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT on June 27, 2020, 03:05:25 PM
Quote from: Villan82 on June 27, 2020, 03:03:00 PM
All that bullshit last year: 'we're Aston Villa, we organise open top bus tours when we win a trophy, not when we gain promotion', 'we won't be there to make up the numbers' etc. etc.

Yet, we accept utter shite and haven't taken action to preserve our premier league status. Fuming.

Purslow: We'll sign players with character.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OzVilla on June 27, 2020, 03:06:04 PM
We didn’t match Wolves at all. I’m sorry but they had gears left to go through, you could see that. We were stuck in neutral.

But the chance to bin him off was January, we didn’t. The next chance was after Leicester. We didn’t again. He’s here till seasons end now whatever happens.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on June 27, 2020, 03:06:10 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on June 27, 2020, 02:55:49 PM
Smith: "We're disappointed. It looked as if it was going to be a 0-0 game. I felt we matched a top 6 team today."

Rancid comment.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 27, 2020, 03:08:03 PM
We need a manager/coaching team who can actually coach, plan, and adapt to situations. Keeping him whatever the outcome of this season, which looks pretty obvious now, is a waste of time.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on June 27, 2020, 03:08:04 PM
He’s lucky the fans aren’t there. He’d be getting dog’s abuse.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on June 27, 2020, 03:10:57 PM
Dean, shite mate. A low intensity game where we looked devoid of ideas and the will to win. Unless someone fucks up against us I just can't see how we break a team down.

January has finished us off. Reina, Drinkwater and Samatta. Never going to keep you up. Piss poor. We needed some points out of Newcastle, Sheff Utd and Wolves. We've ended up with 2. We need 38/39 to stay up I reckon, that's 4 wins. Goodnight Vienna.

Smith, Suso, Terry and the other bloke. None of them have done what is required, we actually look a worse team than the one in September. The recruits have been over priced and under skilled, we've added much of a muchness in numbers but what have they brought to the squad? Konsa, £12m? Targett the same? Nakamba and Wesley. Between just those four alone you've near £60m and it goes on and on.

We might do Ok in the Championship but the underlying problem of buying massively over priced players with very little skill, strength or pace still plagues us.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on June 27, 2020, 03:11:39 PM
Quote from: Risso on June 27, 2020, 03:08:04 PM
He’s lucky the fans aren’t there. He’d be getting dog’s abuse.

I wonder how Purslow would feel if 40k fans were screaming for his head? Of course it shouldn’t be required to fire him from doing such an abject job. Fans or no fans.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 27, 2020, 03:14:32 PM
The worst thing of it all is that it’s so crushingly predictable under Smith now. We know we won’t win, we know we won’t play well, and we know a load of nonsense will be spouted post-game. He’s had a fair chance to turn things round, and it’s clearly not happening. Time is up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on June 27, 2020, 03:15:55 PM
Newcastle kept Benitez when they were relegated. Wolves picked up a coach who had done well in the best league in Europe. If we are serious, we need to show it.

Brentford managers and bits and pieces players from midtable Belgian sides aren't good enough and we are paying for it big time.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tomd2103 on June 27, 2020, 03:17:10 PM
Quote from: aj2k77 on June 27, 2020, 03:10:57 PM
Dean, shite mate. A low intensity game where we looked devoid of ideas and the will to win. Unless someone fucks up against us I just can't see how we break a team down.

January has finished us off. Reina, Drinkwater and Samatta. Never going to keep you up. Piss poor. We needed some points out of Newcastle, Sheff Utd and Wolves. We've ended up with 2. We need 38/39 to stay up I reckon, that's 4 wins. Goodnight Vienna.

Smith, Suso, Terry and the other bloke. None of them have done what is required, we actually look a worse team than the one in September. The recruits have been over priced and under skilled, we've added much of a muchness in numbers but what have they brought to the squad? Konsa, £12m? Targett the same? Nakamba and Wesley. Between just those four alone you've near £60m and it goes on and on.

We might do Ok in the Championship but the underlying problem of buying massively over priced players with very little skill, strength or pace still plagues us.

Not that I can see it mattering, but can’t see us, Bournemouth or West Ham winning four games from here on in.  Two wins might even be enough considering how poor the teams down there seem to be. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: rougegorge on June 27, 2020, 03:21:45 PM
Quote from: Richard E on June 27, 2020, 03:05:05 PM
He should have been shown the door after the 3-0 at Watford in December.
Exactly. The football and results were terrible even then.

The league cup saved him but he should have been replaced after Leicester as well.

If the owners were doing the maths of relegation, they should have acted far sooner.

Since restart,  the team has been bereft of ideas, pace, movement, tactics ..the lot, and no sign of.any improvement.

I can understand the large swathe of goodwill on here wanting him to succeed, but his Villa affiliation has definitely given him more leeway than other managers would've had.

Our run of three wins on expected goals also came to an end. He can't even say that today, as it was 0.4 to 0.7.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: myf on June 27, 2020, 03:24:37 PM
apparently we're hard to beat!?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT Villan on June 27, 2020, 03:25:14 PM
Dean is a lovely lad, but his time is up (and really has been for a while). We should be on the phone to Sam and offer him a contract to finish the season with a massive (multi-million) bonus for keeping us up.

Regroup after we know our fate - I wouldn't be opposed to keeping Sam for another season if he is successful to stabilize a mid-table position in the Premier League.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on June 27, 2020, 03:25:53 PM
I think that's it for Dean.  He's shown nothing whatsoever to indicate he's PL class, which is what we need, and he's shown no signs of learning or adapting.  We can't appoint lower level managers and just hope they turn out to be good in the PL. 

And the whining about officials and luck and all the rest of it really really gets on my tits.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on June 27, 2020, 03:26:05 PM
Coward.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on June 27, 2020, 03:27:23 PM
More seriously, Players aren’t good enough is the only sensible defence of him of the moment. Get it to a degree but what about those early games where we threw points away because of tactical naivety.

What I think we’ve got is a mixed bag player wise but they’re all playing within themselves because they don’t trust the tactics or coaching and their confidence is shot because they have seen so many results thrown away following hard work.

Whatever you think of Dean I admire anyone who’ll try and argue he’s got the most out of the players however good or bad you think they are.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on June 27, 2020, 03:28:44 PM
“We’ve had a plan for each of our last 10 games.”

Written in green crayon on the back of a fag packet I bet.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 27, 2020, 03:29:29 PM
There’s enough quality in the players to be better than this. That doesn’t absolve recruitment at all, there are clear mistakes, but this team is less than the sum of its parts. That is down to the manager and his team.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: andyh on June 27, 2020, 03:29:47 PM
Trying to be slightly positive, when the inevitable happens and we sell off the family silver at least the club will be on a hugely solid financial footing.
Player sales and parachute payments should mean we are able to attract a decent manager ( Rafa ?)  who could bring a style of play and approach to the game that starts to modernise the playing side of the club.

Maybe? Eh?


Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on June 27, 2020, 03:30:07 PM
Quote from: myf on June 27, 2020, 03:24:37 PM
apparently we're hard to beat!?

Just heard that. Laughable.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on June 27, 2020, 03:30:09 PM
It looks to me like he's lost the changing room. It looked that way before the covid break and it still looks that way now.

The moaning about refs, the ridiculously self-serving summaries of matches, the passive looking on as we produce nothing, the persistence with a shape and side that does not work, the total failure to understand game management.

All of those things are pretty depressing to watch.

He should have gone ages ago. Seven games left now and we are not yet cut adrift. Get shot today, absolute last chance, and hope for a new manager bounce because carrying on like this is definitely going to end in relegation.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: itbrvilla on June 27, 2020, 03:30:40 PM
Quote from: CT on June 27, 2020, 03:05:25 PM
Quote from: Villan82 on June 27, 2020, 03:03:00 PM
All that bullshit last year: 'we're Aston Villa, we organise open top bus tours when we win a trophy, not when we gain promotion', 'we won't be there to make up the numbers' etc. etc.

Yet, we accept utter shite and haven't taken action to preserve our premier league status. Fuming.

Purslow: We'll sign players with character.
He's a fucking charlatan too. His job is to make the big decisions and he's done nothing this season
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on June 27, 2020, 03:30:52 PM
Quote from: andyh on June 27, 2020, 03:29:47 PM
Trying to be slightly positive, when the inevitable happens and we sell off the family silver at least the club will be on a hugely solid financial footing.
Player sales and parachute payments should mean we are able to attract a decent manager ( Rafa ?)  who could bring a style of play and approach to the game that starts to modernise the playing side of the club.

Maybe? Eh?




Purslow was considered as having driven Benitez out of Liverpool. There's no way that's going to happen.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 27, 2020, 03:30:56 PM
Quote from: Risso on June 27, 2020, 03:28:44 PM
“We’ve had a plan for each of our last 10 games.”

Written in green crayon on the back of a fag packet I bet.

It’s worked spectacularly well. I wonder how many points we’ve accrued across those 10 games.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Walmley_Villa on June 27, 2020, 03:31:27 PM
He has been let down with the recruitment certainly but I think the coaching levels required at this level are higher and none of them have the experience. Lack of experience on and off the pitch is hurting us.

Ultimately we have no goal threat, no pace and the worst defence in the league. We are where we deserve to be. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: David_Nab on June 27, 2020, 03:33:12 PM
Quote from: Risso on June 27, 2020, 03:28:44 PM
“We’ve had a plan for each of our last 10 games.”

Written in green crayon on the back of a fag packet I bet.

He has gone from we will attack and try to beat every team to trying to be overly clever and change tactics every game.He has tried to play for a draw twice and failed and drawn when we should of been winning.

Had enough of him , Brentford are doing better without him he has been found out at this level and his pot match interviews have descended into the same shit we have herd from previous manager's before they got the sack

I have zero faith he would get us back up after relegation , he has star quality in Grealish ,Mings and Tammy last time he won't have that again
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on June 27, 2020, 03:33:33 PM
As I said at the time, if he’d gone at Christmas, which made complete sense, he’d have been the lovely bloke who got us up and had a decent go in the premier league. I don’t think it was smart or principled to keep him on, it’s just meant he’ll leave under a cloud like all the others.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on June 27, 2020, 03:33:45 PM
Quote from: TonyD on June 27, 2020, 02:33:42 PM
We have had our fair share of shit charlatan managers for years.  But at least most of them had some kind of a system or could at least motivate.  Smith has nothing, nada, ziltch, sweet FA.   We have also been cursed with dreadfully negligent owners. 

Thank God for those dreadfully negligent owners, otherwise we might have been wound-up as a club less than two years ago. They appointed Purslow to be Dean's boss, it's up to him to make recommendations.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ger Regan on June 27, 2020, 03:35:40 PM
I do wonder if it's purslow that's the one fighting smith's corner in the boardroom. Edens in particular doesn't strike me as the sort that would accept such consistent underperformance. I'd have no confidence going into next season with smith still in charge, regardless of which division we're in (although i know which one i'd be betting on).
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: passport1 on June 27, 2020, 03:36:55 PM
Quote from: Risso on June 27, 2020, 03:28:44 PM
“We’ve had a plan for each of our last 10 games.”

Written in green crayon on the back of a fag packet I bet.

No the bloke who looks like vagrant has a notebook.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: David_Nab on June 27, 2020, 03:41:20 PM
Quote from: themossman on June 27, 2020, 03:33:33 PM
As I said at the time, if he’d gone at Christmas, which made complete sense, he’d have been the lovely bloke who got us up and had a decent go in the premier league. I don’t think it was smart or principled to keep him on, it’s just meant he’ll leave under a cloud like all the others.

I'm sure he would of been chopped if the season hadn't been suspended , the break has kept him in a  job for now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on June 27, 2020, 04:00:38 PM
He does have a point

playing games of football is one of our major problems
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on June 27, 2020, 04:21:39 PM
Well I hope he’s not here at the start of the season in the Championship
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aev on June 27, 2020, 04:23:10 PM
It looks as though maybe we got the wrong bloke from Brentford.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on June 27, 2020, 04:28:57 PM
Quote from: aev on June 27, 2020, 04:23:10 PM
It looks as though maybe we got the wrong bloke from Brentford.

Every recent former Brentford manager has gone on to fail at their next much bigger appointment.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Walmley_Villa on June 27, 2020, 04:35:49 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on June 27, 2020, 04:28:57 PM
Quote from: aev on June 27, 2020, 04:23:10 PM
It looks as though maybe we got the wrong bloke from Brentford.

Every recent former Brentford manager has gone on to fail at their next much bigger appointment.

Hard to argue with this. The system and core needs to be in place and then the staff can come and go. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: BC Villain on June 27, 2020, 04:36:10 PM
I really fucking hate some of our "fans" at times.


(https://i.ibb.co/h70nvNz/20200627-161934.jpg) (https://ibb.co/h70nvNz)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on June 27, 2020, 04:38:10 PM
Quote from: BC Villain on June 27, 2020, 04:36:10 PM
I really fucking hate some of our "fans" at times.


(https://i.ibb.co/h70nvNz/20200627-161934.jpg) (https://ibb.co/h70nvNz)


Disgrace what a waste of blood and air he is
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 27, 2020, 04:38:22 PM
Quote from: BC Villain on June 27, 2020, 04:36:10 PM
I really fucking hate some of our "fans" at times.


(https://i.ibb.co/h70nvNz/20200627-161934.jpg) (https://ibb.co/h70nvNz)


Jesus Christ.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mcgrath_85 on June 27, 2020, 04:40:34 PM
He’s not a very good football manager. John Terry can fuck right off too.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Bobby Boy on June 27, 2020, 04:41:45 PM
Quote from: BC Villain on June 27, 2020, 04:36:10 PM
I really fucking hate some of our "fans" at times.


(https://i.ibb.co/h70nvNz/20200627-161934.jpg) (https://ibb.co/h70nvNz)

67

Have a long hard look at yourself fella. What are you thinking?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on June 27, 2020, 04:45:28 PM
Quote from: BC Villain on June 27, 2020, 04:36:10 PM
I really fucking hate some of our "fans" at times.


(https://i.ibb.co/h70nvNz/20200627-161934.jpg) (https://ibb.co/h70nvNz)


You have to some massive ****** to even think that let alone write it and post it
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on June 27, 2020, 04:46:05 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on June 27, 2020, 04:38:22 PM
Quote from: BC Villain on June 27, 2020, 04:36:10 PM
I really fucking hate some of our "fans" at times.


(https://i.ibb.co/h70nvNz/20200627-161934.jpg) (https://ibb.co/h70nvNz)


Jesus Christ.
Looks like the honeymoon period's over.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on June 27, 2020, 05:11:12 PM
is he still here?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on June 27, 2020, 05:13:15 PM
I have lost all faith that we will fire him. That we have accepted our fate whatever it ends up being.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: WarszaVillan on June 27, 2020, 05:17:09 PM
There's no point in him going now, but I don't think he'll be here next season. It's a great shame how it has fallen apart.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: itbrvilla on June 27, 2020, 05:19:54 PM
Quote from: WarszaVillan82 on June 27, 2020, 05:17:09 PM
There's no point in him going now, but I don't think he'll be here next season. It's a great shame how it has fallen apart.
It fell apart over 6 months ago for me.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 27, 2020, 05:24:10 PM
Quote from: WarszaVillan82 on June 27, 2020, 05:17:09 PM
There's no point in him going now, but I don't think he'll be here next season. It's a great shame how it has fallen apart.

Of course there is. There’s no future for him so he should go.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on June 27, 2020, 05:31:32 PM
The decision to extend his contract earlier in the season was truly mind boggling. Good guy Dean but out of his depth at this level like so many of his players. We ended up like Mowbrays West Brom for a finish.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT Villan on June 27, 2020, 05:36:16 PM
Quote from: brontebilly on June 27, 2020, 05:31:32 PM
The decision to extend his contract earlier in the season was truly mind boggling. Good guy Dean but out of his depth at this level like so many of his players. We ended up like Mowbrays West Brom for a finish.

I don't know for sure, but would guess that it was in his original contract as a bonus for gaining promotion given that Purslow et al didn't expect it to happen so quickly.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 27, 2020, 05:41:21 PM
The players don’t look like a group playing for the manager. Contrast Norwich, who are going down but always look like they’re giving their all.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Des Little on June 27, 2020, 05:44:38 PM
If the board are contemplating a change, they may as well do it now. A new manager would have two free hits, then be tasked with getting this sorry bunch up for four massive games. It’s a big ask, but a new manager bounce may just give us hope where currently there isn’t any.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on June 27, 2020, 05:45:30 PM
Honestly it's not too late to get someone in to try to help us stay up. Dean please if you are reading this please resign and you will have our total respect.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on June 27, 2020, 05:48:36 PM
Quote from: Des Little on June 27, 2020, 05:44:38 PM
If the board are contemplating a change, they may as well do it now. A new manager would have two free hits, then be tasked with getting this sorry bunch up for four massive games. It’s a big ask, but a new manager bounce may just give us hope where currently there isn’t any.
I'd rather wait and get the best candate than panick buy a Pulis or Alardyce.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 27, 2020, 05:49:18 PM
If the board aren’t contemplating a change then they’re not paying attention.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on June 27, 2020, 05:51:11 PM
More excuses from Smith.  We knew full well that we had 4 matches in 11 games, so why start moaning about it now?  This is why you can use 5 subs, take drinks breaks etc.  Yes, I know the quality isn't there but who's fault is that? I am sick of the excuses and the bullshit soundbites from him.  Conference calls and plans for each player etc.  How about a plan for the game? Two points from four games, with three of them at home is a fucking disaster.  We've gone from a game in hand to having played a game more, with two really tough games ahead.  Smith says we are tough to beat, but when you continue to get beat this really is no consolation at all. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on June 27, 2020, 05:55:14 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on June 27, 2020, 05:48:36 PM
I'd rather wait and get the best candate than panick buy a Pulis or Alardyce.
We can do both. Give Allardyce or Pulis a cool million pounds to see what they can do from now till end of the season and then appoint a new coaching team.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Richard E on June 27, 2020, 06:00:08 PM
I was surprised when he was appointed because it just seemed really ‘safe’ and unambitious. He’s had one good run as Villa Manager. Overall it hasn’t been good enough.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 27, 2020, 06:02:58 PM
I don’t agree that we’re hard to beat, but even if we were if the end result is we get beat who cares. What we need to be is scary to play against, a team that carries a big attacking threat. The reason we’re going down is that teams can just canter past us. We’re one paced, meek, and don’t have a coherent strategy.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on June 27, 2020, 06:05:15 PM
Tough team to beat? Only Norwich have lost or conceded more.

I'm afraid he's entered Dim Tim and Lambert fantasy territory now. And that usually means 1 thing.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Des Little on June 27, 2020, 06:13:46 PM
Wolves beat us today playing walking football. Hard to beat my arse.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ASHTONVILLA on June 27, 2020, 06:15:36 PM
Why hasn't he gone yet. Dreadful all season and dies not deserve a minute longer in charge.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Philek on June 27, 2020, 06:29:27 PM
No International football for a while. Get Southgate in till the end of the season, plenty of motivation for Jack to finish on a high.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on June 27, 2020, 06:42:53 PM
We are not Gareth Southgate's favourite team.  He went from Palace to Boro to England is how it gets written up in the media.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Left Side on June 27, 2020, 06:43:32 PM
On twitter...

villareport
@villareport
·
6m
Aston Villa chiefs are this evening discussing the possibility of sacking Dean Smith as manager. [football insider] #avfc
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: saint13 on June 27, 2020, 06:47:26 PM
I have heard rumours that he is going to be replaced by Terry. I hope not, that would be a farce!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan82 on June 27, 2020, 06:48:02 PM
Good. Get it done. We must do everything possible to stay up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on June 27, 2020, 06:50:11 PM
Football Insider isn't a good source is it?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Jon Crofts on June 27, 2020, 06:55:48 PM
Anyone but John Terry.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Richard E on June 27, 2020, 06:56:47 PM
‘Thatcherlover’ on Twitter seems convinced he’s a goner.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on June 27, 2020, 06:58:30 PM
The players have lost faith in Dean.  Who knows how they feel about Terry but why not roll the dice?  We're going down under Dean.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aev on June 27, 2020, 07:05:19 PM
Farke at Norwich is a better manager I think.

I actually think it is pointless replacing him now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: wince on June 27, 2020, 07:06:57 PM
Norwich don’t deserve to be where they are. Watching them give a good game to manure. They will be fine next year in championship
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on June 27, 2020, 07:13:31 PM
Quote from: wince on June 27, 2020, 07:06:57 PM
Norwich don’t deserve to be where they are. Watching them give a good game to manure. They will be fine next year in championship

I'd say they do deserve to be where they are. Teams don't stay bottom of the league for no reason.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on June 27, 2020, 07:14:41 PM
Quote from: Clampy on June 27, 2020, 07:13:31 PM
Quote from: wince on June 27, 2020, 07:06:57 PM
Norwich don’t deserve to be where they are. Watching them give a good game to manure. They will be fine next year in championship

I'd say they do deserve to be where they are. Teams don't stay bottom of the league for no reason.
Their players aren't as good as ours but they have a go, they're not meek like we are.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: wince on June 27, 2020, 07:14:56 PM
Quote from: Clampy on June 27, 2020, 07:13:31 PM
Quote from: wince on June 27, 2020, 07:06:57 PM
Norwich don’t deserve to be where they are. Watching them give a good game to manure. They will be fine next year in championship

I'd say they do deserve to be where they are. Teams don't stay bottom of the league for no reason.
On how they play it’s a shock then. Always seem to put a shift in.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on June 27, 2020, 07:19:36 PM
Did put much of shift in back in early October.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on June 27, 2020, 07:21:01 PM
We're better than Norwich.  Score!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on June 27, 2020, 07:21:18 PM
We deserve to go down but the team below us don't?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: DB on June 27, 2020, 07:26:26 PM
If you want to believe G.Evans, he says Dean Smith is safe...
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: wince on June 27, 2020, 07:30:16 PM
Quote from: Clampy on June 27, 2020, 07:21:18 PM
We deserve to go down but the team below us don't?
All I’m saying is will we put out a performance like Norwich are against Manure in our game against them?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on June 27, 2020, 07:30:54 PM
Depends on what you read. Some other suggestions that he is on the edge of being fired
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Jon Crofts on June 27, 2020, 07:33:08 PM
Quote from: DB on June 27, 2020, 07:26:26 PM
If you want to believe G.Evans, he says Dean Smith is safe...

The same Greg Evans who say's 'Dean Smith has a knack of pulling off results'?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on June 27, 2020, 07:34:03 PM
Quote from: wince on June 27, 2020, 07:30:16 PM
Quote from: Clampy on June 27, 2020, 07:21:18 PM
We deserve to go down but the team below us don't?
All I’m saying is will we put out a performance like Norwich are against Manure in our game against them?

But will they do the same in the next league game? They need do and they haven't so far.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: wince on June 27, 2020, 07:34:28 PM
Seems to be on Twitter that he’s on verge of going. But I don’t trust twitter.  Will probably limp on til end of season as I reckon it’s too late now anyway.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on June 27, 2020, 07:40:20 PM
Quote from: wince on June 27, 2020, 07:34:28 PM
Seems to be on Twitter that he’s on verge of going. But I don’t trust twitter.  Will probably limp on til end of season as I reckon it’s too late now anyway.

It is too late, we should have been brave during the months of the lock down and made a change. It was blind faith to stick with him, we've been getting progressively more shambolic as the season has gone on.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KevinGage on June 27, 2020, 07:45:21 PM
Optics wouldn't have been good - and you have to think how it would look to other prospective managers as well.

Sacking a hometown manager months after got us promoted and whose father died of Covid.

In other circumstances I'd say there's a good chance he'd have walked the plank.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The_ads on June 27, 2020, 07:46:55 PM
How is it too late? Despite how unbelievably shite we’ve been in 2020, especially last 4 games, the situation is still salvagable
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on June 27, 2020, 07:51:02 PM
Quote from: KevinGage on June 27, 2020, 07:45:21 PM
Optics wouldn't have been good - and you have to think how it would look to other prospective managers as well.

Sacking a hometown manager months after got us promoted and whose father died of Covid.

In other circumstances I'd say there's a good chance he'd have walked the plank.
Ideally it wouldn't happen, but I'd be alarmed if that was the thinking at a professional football club which, if swift action was taken, could still save itself from relegation.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on June 27, 2020, 07:52:35 PM
Quote from: KevinGage on June 27, 2020, 07:45:21 PM
Optics wouldn't have been good - and you have to think how it would look to other prospective managers as well.

Sacking a hometown manager months after got us promoted and whose father died of Covid.

In other circumstances I'd say there's a good chance he'd have walked the plank.

Leicester sacked a manager months after winning the league. If you want to be successful then sentiment has to be put aside. He tried, he failed, we were in the bottom 3 and looking abysmal.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on June 27, 2020, 07:55:13 PM
Unfortunately Dean should have been released from his duties at around Christmas, the Burnley result on New Years Day saved him, then the League Cup run saved him, then COVID-19 saved him. Just before Christmas was the time, the owners didn’t do it and now we look odds on to be relegated
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KevinGage on June 27, 2020, 07:56:34 PM
There was so much uncertainty in the early stages of the lockdown as to whether we'd even complete the season.

If they'd gone the route of scrapping relegation this year and promoting the top two from the Championship we'd have been spared a tough decision - or had the luxury of making it in the close season.

Even when it became clear that the league would resume, we had our destiny in our own hands with Sheff U at home and Newcastle away as early fixtures.

I can understand why they stuck with him on that basis.

But two from 12 after his initial reprieve tells its own story. I wouldn't be against him going now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nii Lamptey on June 27, 2020, 07:57:12 PM
Quote from: Jon Crofts on June 27, 2020, 07:33:08 PM
Quote from: DB on June 27, 2020, 07:26:26 PM
If you want to believe G.Evans, he says Dean Smith is safe...
!

The same Greg Evans who say's 'Dean Smith has a knack of pulling off results'?

It’s not a false statement.... just failed to state that those results he pulled off were nearly always bloody shite ones
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Aldridge Villa on June 27, 2020, 08:02:45 PM
How much of our woeful summer recruitment of 2019 was down to Dean we'll never know. Not sure how many managers would have got a tune out of El Ghazi, Wesley and Trez to be sure. The whole backroom recruitment has been awful , hold your heads in shame.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: IFWaters on June 27, 2020, 08:09:56 PM
offer patrick vieira whatever it takes
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: DB on June 27, 2020, 08:11:50 PM
Quote from: Jon Crofts on June 27, 2020, 07:33:08 PM
Quote from: DB on June 27, 2020, 07:26:26 PM
If you want to believe G.Evans, he says Dean Smith is safe...

The same Greg Evans who say's 'Dean Smith has a knack of pulling off results'?

Just reporting what I saw Crofts.

Evans is a tool.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Monty on June 27, 2020, 08:20:21 PM
The two biggest errors of the season were trying to play clever-clever on signing a striker, and getting sentimental about Dean.

The fact is he did a job about as good as that of Steve Bruce, but for reasons that make him worse than Bruce in the Premier League. Bruce steadied us after all the freefall and made some good signings, but he just couldn't let the attacking talent he had off the leash in a manner befitting Aston Villa challenging for the second division. However, in the Premier League and without the pressure of winning every game, at least he has a sort of footballing identity, and his defensive style seems to have made him a good fit to succeed Benitez at Newcastle, whereas Smith's laissez-faire approach starts to look like not actually having a plan at this level.

In this division, you either have a manager who can make a team more than the sum of its parts (Sheffield United, Bournemouth), players with enough individual quality to overcome a lack of direction or plan (Spurs, United, West Ham), or both a great manager and great players (Liverpool and City). As far as I'm aware, we're the only team in the league with average players following no particular plan. It's a disaster.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: itmustbe_it is! on June 27, 2020, 08:24:06 PM
West Ham haven't overcome anything yet
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Monty on June 27, 2020, 08:25:22 PM
Quote from: itmustbe_it is! on June 27, 2020, 08:24:06 PM
West Ham haven't overcome anything yet

No but at least they have the players to give it a go! We don't have that, but unlike yer Bournemouths and Sheff Utds we also lack any sort of footballing ethos.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on June 27, 2020, 08:27:34 PM
I like your point Monty about getting sentimental about Smith.  It is why and how so many of the shortcomings you list were diluted.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on June 27, 2020, 08:27:50 PM
Quote from: Monty on June 27, 2020, 08:25:22 PM
Quote from: itmustbe_it is! on June 27, 2020, 08:24:06 PM
West Ham haven't overcome anything yet

No but at least they have the players to give it a go! We don't have that, but unlike yer Bournemouths and Sheff Utds we also lack any sort of footballing ethos.

Ethos?  Philosophy?  Aaaaaaaaaarrrrrrggggggghhhhhh.  It'll be 'credo' next.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 27, 2020, 08:28:39 PM
If we get rid now it will only be because we are appointing John Terry. For that reason, it's a no from me.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Monty on June 27, 2020, 08:29:41 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on June 27, 2020, 08:27:50 PM
Quote from: Monty on June 27, 2020, 08:25:22 PM
Quote from: itmustbe_it is! on June 27, 2020, 08:24:06 PM
West Ham haven't overcome anything yet

No but at least they have the players to give it a go! We don't have that, but unlike yer Bournemouths and Sheff Utds we also lack any sort of footballing ethos.

Ethos?  Philosophy?  Aaaaaaaaaarrrrrrggggggghhhhhh.  It'll be 'credo' next.

Trust me I hated typing it. Let's just pretend I said 'plan' and nothing else.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on June 27, 2020, 08:33:02 PM
Can I pretend you said flan?  I am hungry.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on June 27, 2020, 08:38:51 PM
Meet an obnoxious little scrote called Aran O'Brien (https://www.facebook.com/aran.obrien.5)

(https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/106717503_10158768796107658_6512578665907742618_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=Bz2gdvdWIwcAX_WyVol&_nc_ht=scontent-lht6-1.xx&oh=0f83c10de221b42b6ca9e88f24814007&oe=5F1DB863)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on June 27, 2020, 08:41:37 PM
Unfuckingbelievable. An obnoxious character indeed.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on June 27, 2020, 08:52:44 PM
Quote from: aj2k77 on June 27, 2020, 07:40:20 PM
Quote from: wince on June 27, 2020, 07:34:28 PM
Seems to be on Twitter that he’s on verge of going. But I don’t trust twitter.  Will probably limp on til end of season as I reckon it’s too late now anyway.

It is too late, we should have been brave during the months of the lock down and made a change. It was blind faith to stick with him, we've been getting progressively more shambolic as the season has gone on.

No, it is not too late.  Not with 6 games to go.  What we need is someone to get more out of this shower of shit.  Even if it is for the last 6 games only and we already have a plan in place for next season.  Dean Smith IS the problem though.  He is running on empty, cannot get a tune out of these players and every other cliche available.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Monty on June 27, 2020, 08:53:43 PM
Quote from: Legion on June 27, 2020, 08:38:51 PM
Meet an obnoxious little scrote called Aran O'Brien (https://www.facebook.com/aran.obrien.5)

(https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/106717503_10158768796107658_6512578665907742618_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=Bz2gdvdWIwcAX_WyVol&_nc_ht=scontent-lht6-1.xx&oh=0f83c10de221b42b6ca9e88f24814007&oe=5F1DB863)

I see my list of utterly irredeemable twats has grown to ten billion and one.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Richard E on June 27, 2020, 08:54:26 PM
That’s more than the entire population of the world, Monty.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: saunders_heroes on June 27, 2020, 08:55:29 PM
Of course its not too late. Smith is out of his depth in the PL, and after so many terrible signings last summer the only chance we have is to sack him and see if Terry can motivate a few performances out of the players.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Monty on June 27, 2020, 08:56:04 PM
Quote from: Richard E on June 27, 2020, 08:54:26 PM
That’s more than the entire population of the world, Monty.

Yes but you also have to factor in the dead.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Jon Crofts on June 27, 2020, 08:57:09 PM
Quote from: DB on June 27, 2020, 08:11:50 PM
Quote from: Jon Crofts on June 27, 2020, 07:33:08 PM
Quote from: DB on June 27, 2020, 07:26:26 PM
If you want to believe G.Evans, he says Dean Smith is safe...

The same Greg Evans who say's 'Dean Smith has a knack of pulling off results'?

Just reporting what I saw Crofts.

Evans is a tool.

Calm down dear. Enjoy the curry and beer.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on June 27, 2020, 08:58:12 PM
Quote from: Richard E on June 27, 2020, 08:54:26 PM
That’s more than the entire population of the world, Monty.
but still not as many as Leeds would have taken to their last away game if it wasn't for Covid
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villafirst on June 27, 2020, 08:59:58 PM
In the cold light of day 2 points from 24 in the last 8 games is pathetic.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Richard E on June 27, 2020, 09:01:44 PM
Quote from: Villafirst on June 27, 2020, 08:59:58 PM
In the cold light of day 2 points from 24 in the last 8 games is pathetic.

We haven’t won a game of any kind since 28th January, although I do appreciate you have to disregard 100 days of that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Flin5tone on June 27, 2020, 09:06:45 PM
Left it far too late to sack him but needs to be done.

A big NO to Terry being the manager too, blokes useles
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on June 27, 2020, 09:07:30 PM
Can we get real. Aston Villa shouldn't sack Dean Smith because his father passed away due to Covid?  Whilst I have the utmost sympathy for anyone who has lost someone due to this virus, Dean losing his dad is a family matter, and nothing whatsoever to do with football and his performance this season.  Like others have said, Dean was apparently clinging to the job before the break. He has not improved us one iota since the break, despite having the unprecedented space to work individually with the players in that break. Sentiment should not come into it and I seriously doubt if one single newspaper will call us heartless for sacking him. Apart from the Birmingham Evening Mail, which is just a ******.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on June 27, 2020, 09:16:01 PM
They’re considering sacking him apparently.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on June 27, 2020, 09:18:06 PM
Says who?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 27, 2020, 09:18:44 PM
Kippaxvilla2, I believe.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on June 27, 2020, 09:20:06 PM
Quote from: brian green on June 27, 2020, 09:18:06 PM
Says who?

Twitter and The Football Insider, according to Newsnow.  Both highly reputable sources (titter).
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ASHTONVILLA on June 27, 2020, 09:20:31 PM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on June 27, 2020, 09:16:01 PM
They’re considering sacking him apparently.

Great. Sooner the better.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on June 27, 2020, 09:20:57 PM
It’s not beyond reasonable thinking that after a miserable return to action and 2 points from 12 that they might be considering booting him
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on June 27, 2020, 09:21:20 PM
Titter x 2
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on June 27, 2020, 09:24:13 PM
I'll believe it when I see it. Even then, it will have been too late.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on June 27, 2020, 09:25:50 PM
Isn't this reportedly the 3rd time this season they've considered sacking him?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: wince on June 27, 2020, 09:26:15 PM
Quote from: brian green on June 27, 2020, 09:21:20 PM
Titter x 2

Hehe you said tit....er😐

Feel sorry for Dean but we need to stay up to survive. Can’t be dealing with playing the A45 alliance next season
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ez on June 27, 2020, 09:27:45 PM
There has been a few times  to sack him but it's not happened.  All indications are he's been promised the season whatever happens.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on June 27, 2020, 09:29:22 PM
Quote from: ez on June 27, 2020, 09:27:45 PM
There has been a few times  to sack him but it's not happened.  All indications are he's been promised the season whatever happens.

Which would be extremely poor judgement and a lack of nous and killer instinct.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on June 27, 2020, 09:31:12 PM
Quote from: aj2k77 on June 27, 2020, 09:29:22 PM
Quote from: ez on June 27, 2020, 09:27:45 PM
There has been a few times  to sack him but it's not happened.  All indications are he's been promised the season whatever happens.

Which would be extremely poor judgement and a lack of nous and killer instinct.

And would make absolutely zero business sense.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on June 27, 2020, 09:31:33 PM
I thought that Edens was a successful, hard-nosed sports team owner.  What a disappointment.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Richard E on June 27, 2020, 09:32:29 PM
Quote from: aj2k77 on June 27, 2020, 09:25:50 PM
Isn't this reportedly the 3rd time this season they've considered sacking him?

Third time lucky.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ez on June 27, 2020, 09:33:17 PM
Quote from: aj2k77 on June 27, 2020, 09:29:22 PM
Quote from: ez on June 27, 2020, 09:27:45 PM
There has been a few times  to sack him but it's not happened.  All indications are he's been promised the season whatever happens.

Which would be extremely poor judgement and a lack of nous and killer instinct.

It also shows that the noises about made about ambitions for the champions league were just noises.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on June 27, 2020, 09:34:46 PM
It's felt like the Lerner years with a suit coming out with all the platitudes, a manager incapable of getting the team playing anything resembling threatening football and the ownership being as cut throat and no nonsense as Ashley Westwood in a pair of y-fronts reading the Beano.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on June 27, 2020, 09:36:13 PM
Quote from: ez on June 27, 2020, 09:33:17 PM
Quote from: aj2k77 on June 27, 2020, 09:29:22 PM
Quote from: ez on June 27, 2020, 09:27:45 PM
There has been a few times  to sack him but it's not happened.  All indications are he's been promised the season whatever happens.

Which would be extremely poor judgement and a lack of nous and killer instinct.

It also shows that the noises about made about ambitions for the champions league were just noises.

Look at who we signed, from what teams and what leagues. Two gambles may pay off, extremely lucky with 3, a team full of them, it's just asking for trouble.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on June 27, 2020, 09:36:59 PM
Quote from: Richard E on June 27, 2020, 09:32:29 PM
Quote from: aj2k77 on June 27, 2020, 09:25:50 PM
Isn't this reportedly the 3rd time this season they've considered sacking him?

Third time lucky.

"Aston Villa owners considering giving consideration to a meeting where they might consider Dean Smith's future"
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: London Villan on June 27, 2020, 09:37:57 PM
Unless we have someone lined up to start work tomorrow i can’t imagine they’d be sacking him today. Who is available?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on June 27, 2020, 09:40:55 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on June 27, 2020, 09:36:59 PM
Quote from: Richard E on June 27, 2020, 09:32:29 PM
Quote from: aj2k77 on June 27, 2020, 09:25:50 PM
Isn't this reportedly the 3rd time this season they've considered sacking him?

Third time lucky.

"Aston Villa owners considering giving consideration to a meeting where they might consider Dean Smith's future"
Is that your considered opinion ?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Jon Crofts on June 27, 2020, 09:44:22 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on June 27, 2020, 09:40:55 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on June 27, 2020, 09:36:59 PM
Quote from: Richard E on June 27, 2020, 09:32:29 PM
Quote from: aj2k77 on June 27, 2020, 09:25:50 PM
Isn't this reportedly the 3rd time this season they've considered sacking him?

Third time lucky.

"Aston Villa owners considering giving consideration to a meeting where they might consider Dean Smith's future"
Is that your considered opinion ?

Hang on, he’s giving it due consideration.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on June 27, 2020, 09:45:41 PM
Quote from: Jon Crofts on June 27, 2020, 09:44:22 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on June 27, 2020, 09:40:55 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on June 27, 2020, 09:36:59 PM
Quote from: Richard E on June 27, 2020, 09:32:29 PM
Quote from: aj2k77 on June 27, 2020, 09:25:50 PM
Isn't this reportedly the 3rd time this season they've considered sacking him?

Third time lucky.

"Aston Villa owners considering giving consideration to a meeting where they might consider Dean Smith's future"
Is that your considered opinion ?

Hang on, he’s giving it due consideration.

Considerably.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on June 27, 2020, 09:47:57 PM
Quote from: Risso on October 10, 2018, 10:08:13 PM
Have to say that while it’s always exciting to be linked with “names” like Henry, I’m really pleased it’s Smith. I think he’s going to be our Dyche or Howe.
You weren't far wrong with the "Howe" prediction Risso
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on June 27, 2020, 09:49:51 PM
The really sad thing is that he could have been.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on June 27, 2020, 09:51:08 PM
Sorry.  Yes it is according to Football insider.  They also say that Slim Pickings has been lined up as a replacement.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on June 27, 2020, 09:51:17 PM
In life you have to pay to find out.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on June 27, 2020, 09:52:05 PM
Hard to create chances against.
Hard team to beat.

I know that all managers to a degree talk shit and back their team but those two comments aren't even close to being true.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villafirst on June 27, 2020, 09:58:28 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on June 27, 2020, 09:20:57 PM
It’s not beyond reasonable thinking that after a miserable return to action and 2 points from 12 that they might be considering booting him

2 points from the last 24
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Footy-Vill on June 27, 2020, 09:58:39 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on June 27, 2020, 09:47:57 PM
Quote from: Risso on October 10, 2018, 10:08:13 PM
Have to say that while it’s always exciting to be linked with “names” like Henry, I’m really pleased it’s Smith. I think he’s going to be our Dyche or Howe.
You weren't far wrong with the "Howe" prediction Risso

Well give Smith 7 years like those 2 and with that amount of time to implement and grow the squad and I think he do even better than a peak dyche or howe.

At this rate Deano be lucky to see out his contract , that was extended , to 2023.
Should be given next season regardless for me no use chopping and changing which ever league Villa are in.

Smith knows what it takes in the championship and if we stay up he earn the right to remain .

Would show a good sign of stability keeping Dean Smith on.
A change may not be for the better.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ASHTONVILLA on June 27, 2020, 09:59:43 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on June 27, 2020, 09:47:57 PM
Quote from: Risso on October 10, 2018, 10:08:13 PM
Have to say that while it’s always exciting to be linked with “names” like Henry, I’m really pleased it’s Smith. I think he’s going to be our Dyche or Howe.
You weren't far wrong with the "Howe" prediction Risso

Howe might have lost it now, but what he achieved with a tiny club like Bournemouth is remarkable. Same with Dyce.

I was happy with Smith as an appointment but it hasn't worked. To be honest I want our owners to be more ruthless. Look at Southampton who binned Atkins when he got them promoted. Look at Watford. Everton were in freefall and changed.

Smith should have been out long ago. Bit late but needs to go while we still have a slim chance.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Cliftonville Villlain on June 27, 2020, 10:00:09 PM
Far, far too late. We're down. Dean Smith is a nice guy, a Villa man through and through, but it's come too soon for him. We've been in freefall for a while now and thought the break would have done us good but we're still as abject. I'm just tired of losing now. Every match.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tomd2103 on June 27, 2020, 10:13:49 PM
Quote from: London Villan on June 27, 2020, 09:37:57 PM
Unless we have someone lined up to start work tomorrow i can’t imagine they’d be sacking him today. Who is available?

I could see a scenario where Terry gets the job for the remaining games and gets to bring an assistant in for that time.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Davkaus on June 27, 2020, 10:40:07 PM
I don't buy Smith knows what it takes to get out of the Championship. We were in freefall until Jack came good last season.

Brentford have gone from strength to strength without him, and I don't see him bringing us back up without the embarrassment of riches we had last season. He got lucky to take charge of a second tier team with Grealish and Abraham in it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on June 27, 2020, 10:53:16 PM
I’ve been all for Smith and I really wanted it to work and had hopes even after the poor form around Christmas he could turn it around. I just worry with what happened last season and the terrible runs of form we’ve had this year are too much to turn around. We really can’t afford any more slumps can we. If we go down if hope we come straight back up and I wouldn’t be that confident anymore in Smith.

This run we’re on is really poor. The performances are not good by the players and the selections, formations are very haphazard. The only consistent thing with Smith is he’ll make a change if we ship a goal in.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: postal on June 27, 2020, 10:55:40 PM
He has to go, along with whoever signed off the obscene Wesley deal when we had existing forwards from the Academy route.

I'd have Sherwood back rather than continue with Smith.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 27, 2020, 10:57:18 PM
I think people write Wesley off far too soon. But either way who in the academy squad did he block who was ready to start regularly?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villa Lew on June 27, 2020, 11:09:00 PM
Gregg Evans is saying his job is safe for now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on June 27, 2020, 11:09:37 PM
Not in the least bit surprised sadly.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 27, 2020, 11:11:11 PM
He’s been found out sadly we need to move on.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on June 27, 2020, 11:47:22 PM
Gregg Evans makes it up as he goes along. Complete idiot.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr woo on June 27, 2020, 11:59:54 PM
I firmly believe it was the fans that got Steve Bruce moved on. (Cabbage and all)

Unfortunately, without a  collective critics approval / rejection, I am genuinely concerned the board will be too timid to act in a positive way and sack Smith.

If you take 32 games as a sample,. Change nothing and expect different results from the next 6...... I pity your thought process.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on June 28, 2020, 12:00:35 AM
Can we abandon the idea that it's too late and that we're down? We're in the bottom three on goal difference.

Liverpool have just won the league so we don't know how how that will go, and Man Utd are made of jizz and fag ash so the same.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: rougegorge on June 28, 2020, 12:11:44 AM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on June 28, 2020, 12:00:35 AM
Can we abandon the idea that it's too late and that we're down? We're in the bottom three on goal difference.

Liverpool have just won the league so we don't know how how that will go, and Man Utd are made of jizz and fag ash so the same.

I think we do know how the game at Liverpool will go, and I can just see us beating Man Utd like we always do.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on June 28, 2020, 12:48:58 AM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on June 28, 2020, 12:00:35 AM
Can we abandon the idea that it's too late and that we're down? We're in the bottom three on goal difference.

Liverpool have just won the league so we don't know how how that will go, and Man Utd are made of jizz and fag ash so the same.

Doesn't seem like there's many of us, does it? The Championship can fuck right off if it thinks it's getting me back before the maths says so.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: David_Nab on June 28, 2020, 08:06:40 AM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on June 28, 2020, 12:00:35 AM
Can we abandon the idea that it's too late and that we're down? We're in the bottom three on goal difference.

Liverpool have just won the league so we don't know how how that will go, and Man Utd are made of jizz and fag ash so the same.

Boro changed boss - won next game
Luton changed boss - 4 points from 2 games

Make a change now and can get enough of a new boss bounce to save us short term
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 28, 2020, 08:56:37 AM
Sadly the Club seem to have accepted Dean will take us down.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 28, 2020, 09:09:02 AM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on June 28, 2020, 08:56:37 AM
Sadly the Club seem to have accepted Dean will take us down.
Looks like it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: David_Nab on June 28, 2020, 09:15:06 AM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on June 28, 2020, 08:56:37 AM
Sadly the Club seem to have accepted Dean will take us down.

Who will then have to sack him midseason when we his failing ...they should of sacked Bruce earlier than they did and they almost cost us going up.

As for the going down isn't so bad , 4 of the current bottom 6 in the championship are recent PL clubs.It took us 3 managers, 3 seasons and 2 ownership changes to come back next time and there was a large part of that 3 years where instead of being beaten by Man City etc we were struggling against Wigan .Even if you keep most of the team together its a team who are used to losing and have suffered relegation , we saw last time how long it took to turn that around.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Richard E on June 28, 2020, 09:30:25 AM
If Dean Smith was a lifelong fan of eg Colchester United there’d be a lot less people banging the drum for him to keep his job.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on June 28, 2020, 09:50:36 AM
I don’t think there’s many banging the drum for him to stay because it’s pretty obvious that it’s not working

but the fact that he is Villa man through and through means that although we think it might be best for him to go we struggle to damn him to heavily out of respect for who he is and what he’s done for us

well that’s where I am anyway
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on June 28, 2020, 09:55:55 AM
Quote from: Richard E on June 28, 2020, 09:30:25 AM
If Dean Smith was a lifelong fan of eg Colchester United there’d be a lot less people banging the drum for him to keep his job.
You are obviously invoking the law of large numbers here.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ez on June 28, 2020, 09:56:48 AM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on June 28, 2020, 08:56:37 AM
Sadly the Club seem to have accepted Dean will take us down.

It's strange to prefer relegation to changing manager. I imagine for other football fans looking in, they're thinking how come Dean Smith is still there. It's not normal behaviour is it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on June 28, 2020, 09:58:21 AM
Agree with you john e. It's like putting up with a member of the family who has been less than good recently. Can you imagine the vitriol if we were in this situation with Bruce?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on June 28, 2020, 10:00:18 AM
Quote from: john e on June 28, 2020, 09:50:36 AM
I don’t think there’s many banging the drum for him to stay because it’s pretty obvious that it’s not working

but the fact that he is Villa man through and through means that although we think it might be best for him to go we struggle to damn him to heavily out of respect for who he is and what he’s done for us

well that’s where I am anyway


I think that's about right. If the club think it's time for a change, then so be it but personally he'll go with my thanks for getting us up and there'll be no animosity from me whatsoever. Other people are starting to hate him and I don't get that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: RamboandBruno on June 28, 2020, 10:23:46 AM
Quote from: Clampy on June 28, 2020, 10:00:18 AM
Quote from: john e on June 28, 2020, 09:50:36 AM
I don’t think there’s many banging the drum for him to stay because it’s pretty obvious that it’s not working

but the fact that he is Villa man through and through means that although we think it might be best for him to go we struggle to damn him to heavily out of respect for who he is and what he’s done for us

well that’s where I am anyway


I think that's about right. If the club think it's time for a change, then so be it but personally he'll go with my thanks for getting us up and there'll be no animosity from me whatsoever. Other people are starting to hate him and I don't get that.

Agree with this completely
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on June 28, 2020, 10:31:28 AM
Hate is too strong a word, but I dislike all Villa managers when they start doing really badly, lose the plot and start blaming the players, the fixtures and everything and everyone around them.  Smith is just the latest in a long line of dismal flops.  You'd think that by the simple law of averages we'd be due a decent manager at some point, but no.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: David_Nab on June 28, 2020, 10:35:29 AM
Quote from: olaftab on June 28, 2020, 09:58:21 AM
Agree with you john e. It's like putting up with a member of the family who has been less than good recently. Can you imagine the vitriol if we were in this situation with Bruce?

In a alternative time line where we beat Fulham in the play off  , we go up and spend 140 mil with Bruce and play and have the results we have had zero people would be backing him and zero people would be saying if we go down stick with him as he knows the championship and will get us back up.


Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on June 28, 2020, 10:40:55 AM
Quote from: David_Nab on June 28, 2020, 10:35:29 AM
Quote from: olaftab on June 28, 2020, 09:58:21 AM
Agree with you john e. It's like putting up with a member of the family who has been less than good recently. Can you imagine the vitriol if we were in this situation with Bruce?

In a alternative time line where we beat Fulham in the play off  , we go up and spend 140 mil with Bruce and play and have the results we have had zero people would be backing him and zero people would be saying if we go down stick with him as he knows the championship and will get us back up.




Exactly.  It's entirely because he's a Villa fan that he gets any leeway at all.  Doesn't wash with me I'm afraid.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on June 28, 2020, 10:42:04 AM
Quote from: RamboandBruno on June 28, 2020, 10:23:46 AM
Quote from: Clampy on June 28, 2020, 10:00:18 AM
Quote from: john e on June 28, 2020, 09:50:36 AM
I don’t think there’s many banging the drum for him to stay because it’s pretty obvious that it’s not working

but the fact that he is Villa man through and through means that although we think it might be best for him to go we struggle to damn him to heavily out of respect for who he is and what he’s done for us

well that’s where I am anyway


I think that's about right. If the club think it's time for a change, then so be it but personally he'll go with my thanks for getting us up and there'll be no animosity from me whatsoever. Other people are starting to hate him and I don't get that.

Agree with this completely
Yep, Unfortunately I have to agree John, also without trying to sound arrogant, but maybe it’s a job too big for him. Somethings not right.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on June 28, 2020, 10:45:12 AM
Quote from: Risso on June 28, 2020, 10:31:28 AM
Hate is too strong a word, but I dislike all Villa managers when they start doing really badly, lose the plot and start blaming the players, the fixtures and everything and everyone around them.  Smith is just the latest in a long line of dismal flops.  You'd think that by the simple law of averages we'd be due a decent manager at some point, but no.

Old Chinese proverb.

When you keep fishing in the toilet, don't be surprised if you hook a Mcleish.

We simply have to aim higher, if we mean business throw our weight around. If we don't stop bullshitting about we're going to do this and that and then sign half a team from a Belgian midtable side, Wolves eighth choice center back and swap players with the Rags.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KevinGage on June 28, 2020, 10:47:41 AM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on June 28, 2020, 12:00:35 AM
Can we abandon the idea that it's too late and that we're down? We're in the bottom three on goal difference.

Liverpool have just won the league so we don't know how how that will go, and Man Utd are made of jizz and fag ash so the same.

The one idea I cling to is Slumberland's end of seaon miracle a few years back under ... Poyet? (they've had so many managers it's hard to keep track).

They looked dead and gone in April, yet beat Chelsea and Yanited and drew with Citeh to stay up.

Four points  from the next two (would be typical to beat Yanited with no soul in the ground to enjoy it) wins against Palarse home and Wham away will see us reet.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on June 28, 2020, 10:48:06 AM
I wonder if Dean has a point about the fixtures, they do seem a bit erratic. Liverpool played Palace on Wednesday and now don't play again until this Thursday when they have two games in four days. Ours was the only game yesterday and they could have played that today as we both don't play again until next weekend.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 28, 2020, 10:58:21 AM
Quote from: RamboandBruno on June 28, 2020, 10:23:46 AM
Quote from: Clampy on June 28, 2020, 10:00:18 AM
Quote from: john e on June 28, 2020, 09:50:36 AM
I don’t think there’s many banging the drum for him to stay because it’s pretty obvious that it’s not working

but the fact that he is Villa man through and through means that although we think it might be best for him to go we struggle to damn him to heavily out of respect for who he is and what he’s done for us

well that’s where I am anyway


I think that's about right. If the club think it's time for a change, then so be it but personally he'll go with my thanks for getting us up and there'll be no animosity from me whatsoever. Other people are starting to hate him and I don't get that.

Agree with this completely
Same here, I really wanted him to do well and was at VP when he walked out as Villa manager.
He did a great job last season and he is not solely responsible for this season but his biggest failing has been down to game management and that will ultimately cost us our place in the PL and him his job.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on June 28, 2020, 11:32:04 AM
Quote from: Risso on June 28, 2020, 10:40:55 AM
Quote from: David_Nab on June 28, 2020, 10:35:29 AM
Quote from: olaftab on June 28, 2020, 09:58:21 AM
Agree with you john e. It's like putting up with a member of the family who has been less than good recently. Can you imagine the vitriol if we were in this situation with Bruce?

In a alternative time line where we beat Fulham in the play off  , we go up and spend 140 mil with Bruce and play and have the results we have had zero people would be backing him and zero people would be saying if we go down stick with him as he knows the championship and will get us back up.




Exactly.  It's entirely because he's a Villa fan that he gets any leeway at all.  Doesn't wash with me I'm afraid.

Yet that's one of the main characteristics that made people clamour for him before he was appointed.

Personally I'd give him the first couple of months of next season, regardless of which division we're in.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on June 28, 2020, 11:33:42 AM
Why would you do that?  He's shown he's not up to the level of the Premier League really, really clearly.  Surely a better route would be to get a more progressive manager who'd be capable of improving?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on June 28, 2020, 11:41:03 AM
Quote from: Risso on June 28, 2020, 10:31:28 AM
...  Smith is just the latest in a long line of dismal flops...
I said in another thread (or was it this one? Can't remember!) that the manager is the most important appointment a club makes, and Everton saw this, luring a proven winner into their club despite not looking particularly attractive to said manager.
As soon as he was available (4-5 weeks' ago) we should have got Poch in.
My guess is that we would have won a couple of games out of the 4 we've played and be well-set to stay up, with the prospect of a proper close-season with a good manager to lift next season's performances.

Instead, we'll be re-finding our feet in the Chumpionship and unable to attract the very best managers.

Whatever, I don't think Smith and his coaching team should be allowed to stay: we have to find a winning manager for next season and several future seasons.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on June 28, 2020, 11:45:59 AM
When Southampton did the same a few years back replacing Adkins with Poch, there was a few eyebrows raised but it was one very smart move.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on June 28, 2020, 11:47:55 AM
Indeed - and we have to do the same.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on June 28, 2020, 11:49:44 AM
Quote from: Risso on June 28, 2020, 11:33:42 AM
Why would you do that?  He's shown he's not up to the level of the Premier League really, really clearly.  Surely a better route would be to get a more progressive manager who'd be capable of improving?
Yes agreed why would/should we do that. To be truthful I am not that impressed with our owners. If they are as ambitious as we are led to believe why did we keep Bruce at the time of the takeover? This  2 months/October thing is bung. Just wastes time and money.
 And why did we appoint Smith who was doing ok at Brentford but hardly setting the world on fire as a coach? Stop messing about Messrs Sawiris/Eden. Show us how brilliant and focussed you are.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nastylee on June 28, 2020, 11:58:58 AM
If the top dogs are true to their word in wanting Villa tonretyrn to the top table then they need to appoint a manager and a squad to do that. Taking Championship managers and players and praying it works is a gamble that rarely pays off. You can take players to develop and profit on once you have an established set up. Trying to put that together in a couple of months was doomed to fail. The january signings were fucking pitiful. To think we were linked with Giroud an co in December. Look at who we got.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: wince on June 28, 2020, 12:12:28 PM
Coach wise we need a progressive coach. We have never looked like Premier League quality this year being slow to get into games or falling into the Lambert trap of a good 15 minutes then chasing the game. Had the same squad that got promoted stayed together who knows but our need to purchase so many replacements coupled with no striker who could score hasn’t helped. We might still stay up and if we do, by god we will be lucky. Head down a league we can’t be fucking about for 3 seasons. It’s got to be get up, dominate the league and start getting players showing some fucking pride. At moment we are again the big pay day for a lot of mediocre has beens. The moment we got Danny drinkwater in, you could see where we were heading......
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ROBBO on June 28, 2020, 01:46:12 PM
Seems like another poll is iminent.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on June 28, 2020, 02:13:28 PM
Agree.  Anybody who thinks Drinkwater is an answer to anything does not know what the question was.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VinnieChase84 on June 28, 2020, 02:18:11 PM
We either do it now and get a new man or we give him the chance of getting us back up.

Given how short this summer is going to be and how we are going to lose some players, to then add into the mix a new manager/the needed recruitment/no proper pre season. A LOT to do. Therefore Smith stays for continuity
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on June 28, 2020, 02:36:53 PM
Continuity of what? Failure?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 28, 2020, 02:39:46 PM
Quote from: Risso on June 28, 2020, 11:33:42 AM
Why would you do that?  He's shown he's not up to the level of the Premier League really, really clearly.  Surely a better route would be to get a more progressive manager who'd be capable of improving?

Agree completely. I really can’t see any argument for more time.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Footy-Vill on June 28, 2020, 02:43:11 PM
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on June 28, 2020, 02:18:11 PM
We either do it now and get a new man or we give him the chance of getting us back up.

Given how short this summer is going to be and how we are going to lose some players, to then add into the mix a new manager/the needed recruitment/no proper pre season. A LOT to do. Therefore Smith stays for continuity

100% agree whichever league Villa are on next season .
Smith given the time can steer us in the right direction
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on June 28, 2020, 02:47:56 PM
Keeping him on, and binning him if we don't start well, is the worst thing we could possibly do.  Imagine him and the club spending time and money signing players and setting up for the new season only to undo it two months later and start again.  You either think he's going to get us promoted and be better next time we're in the PL, or you bin him as soon as possible and bring in someone you think can.*

*Assuming we're relegated.  Or perhaps even if we stay up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 28, 2020, 02:52:25 PM
Quote from: brian green on June 28, 2020, 02:36:53 PM
Continuity of what? Failure?

Quite. Ever since Ferguson was on the brink at Manure and turned it round there’s this logic jump that giving someone time will bear out positively. That may be true in some cases, but it’s absolutely the worst thing you can do when you have the wrong man. Sadly Dean is not up to it and that’s not going to change.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VinnieChase84 on June 28, 2020, 02:55:58 PM
Dyche?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on June 28, 2020, 02:59:45 PM
Yes but what has Dyche actually achieved other than keeping them in the top division?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on June 28, 2020, 03:01:43 PM
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on June 28, 2020, 02:55:58 PM
Dyche?
An upgrade on Dean but not sufficiently different to him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ASHTONVILLA on June 28, 2020, 03:11:26 PM
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on June 28, 2020, 02:18:11 PM
We either do it now and get a new man or we give him the chance of getting us back up.

Given how short this summer is going to be and how we are going to lose some players, to then add into the mix a new manager/the needed recruitment/no proper pre season. A LOT to do. Therefore Smith stays for continuity

Continuity is the last thing we need. We need to get better, not continue to be shit. Get him out now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ez on June 28, 2020, 04:07:35 PM
He's shown he is not a premier league manager so he's on borrowed time anyway. We go down and he gets us promoted again, he's ditched. We go down and we falter, he's ditched.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: David_Nab on June 28, 2020, 04:17:14 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on June 28, 2020, 03:01:43 PM
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on June 28, 2020, 02:55:58 PM
Dyche?
An upgrade on Dean but not sufficiently different to him.

Promoted twice once as winners once as runners up scoring 93 points both times

Kept Burnley safe in league with a team including the footballing talent of ex Villa players Bardsley , Lowton and Westwood and has on occasion managed to beat top sides.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on June 28, 2020, 04:18:53 PM
Quote from: David_Nab on June 28, 2020, 04:17:14 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on June 28, 2020, 03:01:43 PM
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on June 28, 2020, 02:55:58 PM
Dyche?
An upgrade on Dean but not sufficiently different to him.

Promoted twice once as winners once as runners up scoring 93 points both times

Kept Burnley safe in league with a team including the footballing talent of ex Villa players Bardsley , Lowton and Westwood and has on occasion managed to beat top sides.

The Dyche family home is in Northampton as well, so you'd think a move to the Midlands would make life a lot easier for him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on June 28, 2020, 04:28:13 PM
Quote from: David_Nab on June 28, 2020, 04:17:14 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on June 28, 2020, 03:01:43 PM
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on June 28, 2020, 02:55:58 PM
Dyche?
An upgrade on Dean but not sufficiently different to him.

Promoted twice once as winners once as runners up scoring 93 points both times

Kept Burnley safe in league with a team including the footballing talent of ex Villa players Bardsley , Lowton and Westwood and has on occasion managed to beat top sides.

Absolutely, this is how I see it. Dyche would stabilise us and then allow a better manager to take us forward. Getting Villa back to where we won’t to be won’t be easy or a simple fix. The next manager is a stepping stone and I can’t think of a better manager than Dyche to achieve this.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brazilian Villain on June 28, 2020, 04:32:40 PM
Quote from: olaftab on June 28, 2020, 02:59:45 PM
Yes but what has Dyche actually achieved other than keeping them in the top division?

That would do for a few seasons so we can establish a foundation before making the "next step".
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on June 28, 2020, 04:35:30 PM
I think Dyche would have spent our pre season treasure chest better than Smith did. I think he would have got more out of the players too, even if he had our current squad.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aev on June 28, 2020, 04:36:43 PM
It is a bit unfair on Dyche to suggest he would be a stop gap. Burnley hardly ever spend any money so we have no idea what he could achieve with decent transfer funds.

The problem is, we are in all likelihood going to be in the championship next season, so I can’t imagine he would fancy it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on June 28, 2020, 04:38:59 PM
Quote from: David_Nab on June 28, 2020, 04:17:14 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on June 28, 2020, 03:01:43 PM
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on June 28, 2020, 02:55:58 PM
Dyche?
An upgrade on Dean but not sufficiently different to him.

Promoted twice once as winners once as runners up scoring 93 points both times

Kept Burnley safe in league with a team including the footballing talent of ex Villa players Bardsley , Lowton and Westwood and has on occasion managed to beat top sides.
As I say, an upgrade on Dean Smith.  Not my choice though.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Meanwood Villa on June 28, 2020, 04:49:16 PM
I normally get to a point with managers where I stop caring whether they stay or not. I am at this point with Dean. I wouldn't say I am particularly clamouring for him to get sacked but he can't have any complaints if he does. I think even if he keeps us up then an upgrade is required. Although if we do pull it out of the bag from here the initial euphoria of doing so might make me think he's great again.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on June 28, 2020, 05:02:55 PM
I’m really surprised anyone would turn their nose up at Dyche. It must be recently bias because what he’s done with Burnley puts him leagues ahead of Smith and all our managers post Houllier.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 28, 2020, 05:09:45 PM
Yesterday showed how lost Dean is. He had about turn and put two up front, but didn’t appear to have given any consideration to how the team would provide service to them.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Des Little on June 28, 2020, 05:11:32 PM
If we were to sack Deano, Dyche would also be my pick, for the very reasons stated in recent posts. It’s not beyond reason that he may come even if we did go down; there aren’t many bigger jobs that he’d realistically land if he were to remain in the Prem, and Benítez stayed on at Newcastle despite relegation, and his stock was considerably larger then than Dyche’s is at present.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on June 28, 2020, 05:11:57 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on June 28, 2020, 05:09:45 PM
Yesterday showed how lost Dean is. He had about turn and put two up front, but didn’t appear to have given any consideration to how the team would provide service to them.
In his defence, Targett going off early didn't help in that regard.  Davis and Samatta must have groaned when they saw Taylor coming on.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on June 28, 2020, 05:13:52 PM
Quote from: themossman on June 28, 2020, 05:02:55 PM
I’m really surprised anyone would turn their nose up at Dyche. It must be recently bias because what he’s done with Burnley puts him leagues ahead of Smith and all our managers post Houllier.

Good point but at the same time, being better than the managers we have had the last few years is surely the faintest of faint praise
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 28, 2020, 05:23:25 PM
I'd be happy with Dyche. He has worked wonders with Burnley, over a significant period. Generally when we are awaiting a new manager we all, myself included, get excited at a variety of exotic and amazing candidates only to be disappointed when we end up with some uninspiring imbecile like Sherwood or McLeish.

Taking a successful manager from an established Premier League club would be a statement of intent. Much more so than the inevitable appointment of John fucking Terry.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 28, 2020, 05:25:20 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on June 28, 2020, 05:11:57 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on June 28, 2020, 05:09:45 PM
Yesterday showed how lost Dean is. He had about turn and put two up front, but didn’t appear to have given any consideration to how the team would provide service to them.
In his defence, Targett going off early didn't help in that regard.  Davis and Samatta must have groaned when they saw Taylor coming on.

That’s true, but if he was solely relying on Targett that was never going to work.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Big Ming on June 28, 2020, 06:06:43 PM
A new manager 'bounce' would be a bit handy round about now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 28, 2020, 06:19:59 PM
Has there been any rumblings from the dressing room?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT on June 28, 2020, 06:22:05 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on June 28, 2020, 06:19:59 PM
Has there been any rumblings from the dressing room?

Only when John McGinn fell off the physios table.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: rougegorge on June 28, 2020, 06:25:54 PM
With Watford losing, it's probably even more of a time to try something different. It would be very wrong to use the current inadequacies of other teams around us to make an excuse for continuing as we are.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KevinGage on June 28, 2020, 06:37:37 PM
Dyche or Hughton would be the obvious candidates.

To keep on trend with the fancy foreigners, Benfica manager Bruno Lage (yes, had to google him) has that all important English experience, having been assistant at Sheff Wed and Swansea in recent years.

Nuno's replacement at FC Porto Sérgio Conceição might be bored of only having six tough fixtures per year and could fancy a stint in sunny Birmingham.

Rúben Amorim at Sporting Lisbon has a £20 million buy out clause and only took over in March this year, so I'd say there's as much chance of us getting him as we have of Pochettino.  I know next to nothing about all three (Conceição played for Lazio, that's about it).  Rudy Can't Fail might be able to fill in the blanks here.

Speaking of Pochettino -as great a deal as that looks for Southampton now - prior to that he'd been sacked by low ranking Espanyol. Koeman took on his good work after he too had had an underwhelming spell in Portugal. NES had been sacked by Porto when Wolves went for him and so on.

So the powers that be might need to consider a candidate that has already achieved in club football and has had a recent blemish.  Or in the case of Pochettino, has a way of playing and (urgh!) philosophy that trumps his lack of experience.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on June 28, 2020, 06:59:44 PM
Quote from: KevinGage on June 28, 2020, 06:37:37 PM
Dyche or Hughton would be the obvious candidates.
Personally I would find that massively underwhelming.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KevinGage on June 28, 2020, 07:06:51 PM
Both could get us up and probably keep us up. 

But it won't be total football.   What we're getting at the moment doesn't even look like football in any recognisable form (which you could have written so many times over the last 20 years), so I'd take it.

Yes I'd want better. Edens seems to place a lot of faith in stats so that will inform his decision, Sawis takes the fanboy approach and wants the pull of a big name even if blatantly unsuitable (Henry) and Purslow has to mediate between the two.  The wisdom of crowds  - or too many cooks.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on June 28, 2020, 07:07:16 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on June 28, 2020, 05:13:52 PM
Quote from: themossman on June 28, 2020, 05:02:55 PM
I’m really surprised anyone would turn their nose up at Dyche. It must be recently bias because what he’s done with Burnley puts him leagues ahead of Smith and all our managers post Houllier.

Good point but at the same time, being better than the managers we have had the last few years is surely the faintest of faint praise

Yes also a fair point.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Big Ming on June 28, 2020, 07:09:50 PM
Assuming we decide to go for change,  two month contract with a massive bonus for keeping Villa up would seem sensible, whoever they choose.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: wince on June 28, 2020, 07:13:15 PM
It’s the statement of intent that sets the Tipton tramps apart from us. They bin lambert and take a risk and we are scrapping over the likes of dyche who, whilst occasionally gets his side to beat a top 6 squad is basically how Smith will end up in a few seasons (if he continues to learn) and the same as Steve Bruce is now.. I don’t know what is best at the moment but the manager merry go round is getting tiresome. We need a dedicated way of play and have our coaches coach that, get players in who suit it rather than take endless punts on managers solely because they aren’t our current manager.
I think this season is done if I’m honest but if there is a chance of staying up then great. If not, we need to spend next season building a style of play that is not dependant upon one player and get into teams from the off and not expect them to roll over because we are a big club. If we are a big club it’s about time we started acting like one.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on June 28, 2020, 07:13:54 PM
Quote from: Big Ming on June 28, 2020, 07:09:50 PM
Assuming we decide to go for change,  two month contract with a massive bonus for keeping Villa up would seem sensible, whoever they choose.

It's the only way I'd take the job on.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on June 28, 2020, 07:17:49 PM
Quote from: Legion on June 28, 2020, 07:13:54 PM
Quote from: Big Ming on June 28, 2020, 07:09:50 PM
Assuming we decide to go for change,  two month contract with a massive bonus for keeping Villa up would seem sensible, whoever they choose.

It's the only way I'd take the job on.
Please don't.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on June 28, 2020, 07:21:18 PM
Bloody Hell, a vote of no confidence ALREADY!?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT Villan on June 28, 2020, 07:28:58 PM
I can hear it now...

Sean, it's Christian.
[strange distorted grating noise that makes you want to clear your throat]
Christian Purslow at Villa
[grating noise...]
We were wondering if you'd be interested in taking over here. I know you have a job-for-life at Burnley, but we need someone for a couple of seasons to stabilize us
in mid-table of the EPL and as soon as you successfully complete that goal we'll bring in a real manager to take us to top-6 and challenge for the Chumps League. How's that sound ?
[dialing tone]
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: andyh on June 28, 2020, 07:51:34 PM
A bit like watching the team, if a manager change were to happen, it all feels predictable.
Dyche. Big Sam or someone of a similar type.

How wonderful if someone at our club could unearth our own Poch or Nuno type?
They must be out there, surely.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on June 28, 2020, 07:52:07 PM
Two minutes later.

Wes, it's Christian.  Christian Purslow at Villa.

Yawning noise.

I had a very good conversation with Sean.  I spelled out all the advantages of him leaving Burnley to join us.

Well he did not say No.  I think I have convinced him.

(dialling tone)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on June 28, 2020, 08:08:44 PM
Quote from: andyh on June 28, 2020, 07:51:34 PM
A bit like watching the team, if a manager change were to happen, it all feels predictable.
Dyche. Big Sam or someone of a similar type.

How wonderful if someone at our club could unearth our own Poch or Nuno type?
They must be out there, surely.


The last time we tried to unearth a foreign coach (I'm not counting Matteo as he had worked in England) we ended up with Remi Garde. Basically we attempted to successfully achieve a Time Team challenge but instead of Tony Robinson and his team of experts we ended up with Baldrick.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on June 28, 2020, 08:14:32 PM
A Baldrick given half a season, no money and a snake pit dressing room.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on June 28, 2020, 08:16:27 PM
Quote from: andyh on June 28, 2020, 07:51:34 PM
A bit like watching the team, if a manager change were to happen, it all feels predictable.
Dyche. Big Sam or someone of a similar type.

How wonderful if someone at our club could unearth our own Poch or Nuno type?
They must be out there, surely.



or even someone like that Ralph fella at Southampton
he turned it round from a near job sacking heavy defeat to finish in good shape playing good stuff

like you say they are out there
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on June 28, 2020, 08:21:06 PM
Quote from: john e on June 28, 2020, 08:16:27 PM
Quote from: andyh on June 28, 2020, 07:51:34 PM
A bit like watching the team, if a manager change were to happen, it all feels predictable.
Dyche. Big Sam or someone of a similar type.

How wonderful if someone at our club could unearth our own Poch or Nuno type?
They must be out there, surely.



or even someone like that Ralph fella at Southampton
he turned it round from a near job sacking heavy defeat to finish in good shape playing good stuff

like you say they are out there

Hasenhüttl was who I hoped we'd get before we went for Smith.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on June 28, 2020, 08:42:33 PM
Sean Dyche has done a stunning job at Burnley.  Before that he was doing a great job at Watford before their board decided to bin him and get in the exotic countryman in Zola, who they sacked later on.  Dyche has never had proper money to spend and yet has kept a very small club (relatively speaking), easily in the top division.  He also brought them straight back up when they went down.  Dyche has earned his spurs and his respect and would be an upgrade on Smith.  He's boring and non-sexy (unless you like a gruff voice), but get the players working really hard for each other and I reckon would do a decent job.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: wince on June 28, 2020, 09:02:05 PM
I do genuinely feel for smith though. He’s villa through and through and I don’t hold any bad feelings.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on June 28, 2020, 09:10:06 PM
They were relegated under Dyche but they stuck with him. Nothing glamorous. A modern day Sam Allardyce reminiscent of his time at Bolton.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on June 28, 2020, 09:14:39 PM
I would have all day long a manager who hates us and everything we stand for who delivers attractive, winning Premier League  football over a Villa fan who gets us relegated.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: wince on June 28, 2020, 09:21:41 PM
Quote from: brian green on June 28, 2020, 09:14:39 PM
I would have all day long a manager who hates us and everything we stand for who delivers attractive, winning Premier League  football over a Villa fan who gets us relegated.
True and I’m glad smith is spared the baying hounds of a villa crowd. Let’s hope we still have a fighting chance but would be happier to be out the relegation zone with a win under our belts
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on June 28, 2020, 09:36:20 PM
We've been promoted, to a cup final, and stayed in touch in the Premier League with an uninspiring squad.

The football hadn't been the greatest, granted, but how much further up the table do people expect us to be?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on June 28, 2020, 09:39:25 PM
Quote from: Drummond on June 28, 2020, 09:36:20 PM
We've been promoted, to a cup final, and stayed in touch in the Premier League with an uninspiring squad.

The football hadn't been the greatest, granted, but how much further up the table do people expect us to be?

Purslow, Smith, pretty much everyone connected with the club said before the season started that we were aiming higher than just safety. We were going to give the bigger teams a run for their money and push on as a club.

Honestly, all I was expecting was to be virtually safe by this point in the season. Instead, we'll almost certainly go down, which is frankly appalling given both the investment and the rhetoric.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Big Ming on June 28, 2020, 09:40:45 PM
I always thought David Wagner was going to be the next Klopp.

Perhaps if he'd had some money?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on June 28, 2020, 09:41:12 PM
By a distance proportionate to the amount of money spent by the Villa fans and the Villa owners.   "stayed in touch in the Premier League"?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tomd2103 on June 28, 2020, 09:43:00 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on June 28, 2020, 09:39:25 PM
Quote from: Drummond on June 28, 2020, 09:36:20 PM
We've been promoted, to a cup final, and stayed in touch in the Premier League with an uninspiring squad.

The football hadn't been the greatest, granted, but how much further up the table do people expect us to be?

Purslow, Smith, pretty much everyone connected with the club said before the season started that we were aiming higher than just safety. We were going to give the bigger teams a run for their money and push on as a club.

Honestly, all I was expecting was to be virtually safe by this point in the season. Instead, we'll almost certainly go down, which is frankly appalling given both the investment and the rhetoric.

And the general standard of the teams in the bottom half of the league. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on June 28, 2020, 09:44:00 PM
Where we actually are could be described as never actually being out of touch with the Championship.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 28, 2020, 09:56:04 PM
I imagine we will know by the end of tomorrow judging by recent dismissals. If Smith is still here at breakfast time on Tuesday, he's here till the end of the season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on June 28, 2020, 10:01:51 PM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on June 28, 2020, 09:56:04 PM
I imagine we will know by the end of tomorrow judging by recent dismissals. If Smith is still here at breakfast time on Tuesday, he's here till the end of the season.

I've been out all day - is there an actual possibility that he might be sacked?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 28, 2020, 10:05:17 PM
Nobody knows. Except various people who are "In The Know". Their accuracy is questionable, in the same way that Chemical Ali's denials were.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on June 28, 2020, 10:06:03 PM
Anything credible in the press?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: RamboandBruno on June 28, 2020, 10:08:29 PM
Despite the obvious fact that we are crap, we’re not actually down yet and the teams around us, including Pearson’s Watford, that is Pearson who lots were raving about when he took over their, are just as crap. Watford may have had a spectacular win over Liverpool but its the only win they’ve had in 10, that’s how long their new manager bounce has lasted. If after Liverpool and Man Utd, we are 3 or 4 points behind Bournemouth, West Ham and Watford then I think we are gone, if it’s 1 or 2 points and we have palace, Everton, arsenal and West Ham to play, then it’s all to play for.

And Dyche, I like Sean Dyche and his growl, but the irony that he got relegated with Burnley and they stuck with him, seems to have by passed a lot of Smith outers on here.We’re they heralded for then barnstorming football the year they last went down?
I’m almost past caring whether smith stays or goes, I’ve not enjoyed a game since Watford in January and that nearly gave me a heart attack. What I do know is, a lot of supporters would of realistically took 17th as an achievement this season after the way we came up and the rushed squad rebuild. Coming 17th invariably means you lose a lot of games, but this seems to have by passed a lot of people. However shite we are, and we are really hard to watch at the moment, coming 17th is not exactly the impossible given we’re on the same points as Bournemouth and West Ham and one behind Watford.
If the internet had existed in April and May 1989, it would of been interesting to see if SGT would of been getting this vitriol, as his Villa escaped an immediate return to Div 1 as it was,  by 1 point with a 1-1 draw with Cov on last day of the season. Just saying like.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on June 28, 2020, 10:11:18 PM
Quote from: RamboandBruno on June 28, 2020, 10:08:29 PM
Despite the obvious fact that we are crap, we’re not actually down yet and the teams around us, including Pearson’s Watford, that is Pearson who lots were raving about when he took over their, are just as crap. Watford may have had a spectacular win over Liverpool but its the only win they’ve had in 10, that’s how long their new manager bounce has lasted. If after Liverpool and Man Utd, we are 3 or 4 points behind Bournemouth, West Ham and Watford then I think we are gone, if it’s 1 or 2 points and we have palace, Everton, arsenal and West Ham to play, then it’s all to play for.

And Dyche, I like Sean Dyche and his growl, but the irony that he got relegated with Burnley and they stuck with him, seems to have by passed a lot of Smith outers on here.We’re they heralded for then barnstorming football the year they last went down?
I’m almost past caring whether smith stays or goes, I’ve not enjoyed a game since Watford in January and that nearly gave me a heart attack. What I do know is, a lot of supporters would of realistically took 17th as an achievement this season after the way we came up and the rushed squad rebuild. Coming 17th invariably means you lose a lot of games, but this seems to have by passed a lot of people. However shite we are, and we are really hard to watch at the moment, coming 17th is not exactly the impossible given we’re on the same points as Bournemouth and West Ham and one behind Watford.
If the internet had existed in April and May 1989, it would of been interesting to see if SGT would of been getting this vitriol, as his Villa escaped an immediate return to Div 1 as it was,  by 1 point with a 1-1 draw with Cov on last day of the season. Just saying like.

I lean towards replacing Smith, but this is a good post.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 28, 2020, 10:13:50 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on June 28, 2020, 10:06:03 PM
Anything credible in the press?

A couple of papers which I don't wish to link to (Heil and Star) ran with the story, but they're only basing their information on the same Twitter ITK that people were discussing on here. So, no. That said, I don't really see any reason why the press would know before anyone else, unless he is already in the process of negotiating a leaving settlement.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 28, 2020, 10:13:55 PM
Quote from: Drummond on June 28, 2020, 09:36:20 PM
We've been promoted, to a cup final, and stayed in touch in the Premier League with an uninspiring squad.

The football hadn't been the greatest, granted, but how much further up the table do people expect us to be?
Not in the relegation zone having won 7 games in 33, I thought we would be safe or close to by now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on June 28, 2020, 10:17:09 PM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on June 28, 2020, 10:13:50 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on June 28, 2020, 10:06:03 PM
Anything credible in the press?

A couple of papers which I don't wish to link to (Heil and Star) ran with the story, but they're only basing their information on the same Twitter ITK that people were discussing on here. So, no. That said, I don't really see any reason why the press would know before anyone else, unless he is already in the process of negotiating a leaving settlement.

Fair enough. Thanks mate.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: colin69 on June 28, 2020, 10:23:36 PM
Quote from: RamboandBruno on June 28, 2020, 10:08:29 PM
Despite the obvious fact that we are crap, we’re not actually down yet and the teams around us, including Pearson’s Watford, that is Pearson who lots were raving about when he took over their, are just as crap. Watford may have had a spectacular win over Liverpool but its the only win they’ve had in 10, that’s how long their new manager bounce has lasted. If after Liverpool and Man Utd, we are 3 or 4 points behind Bournemouth, West Ham and Watford then I think we are gone, if it’s 1 or 2 points and we have palace, Everton, arsenal and West Ham to play, then it’s all to play for.

And Dyche, I like Sean Dyche and his growl, but the irony that he got relegated with Burnley and they stuck with him, seems to have by passed a lot of Smith outers on here.We’re they heralded for then barnstorming football the year they last went down?
I’m almost past caring whether smith stays or goes, I’ve not enjoyed a game since Watford in January and that nearly gave me a heart attack. What I do know is, a lot of supporters would of realistically took 17th as an achievement this season after the way we came up and the rushed squad rebuild. Coming 17th invariably means you lose a lot of games, but this seems to have by passed a lot of people. However shite we are, and we are really hard to watch at the moment, coming 17th is not exactly the impossible given we’re on the same points as Bournemouth and West Ham and one behind Watford.
If the internet had existed in April and May 1989, it would of been interesting to see if SGT would of been getting this vitriol, as his Villa escaped an immediate return to Div 1 as it was,  by 1 point with a 1-1 draw with Cov on last day of the season. Just saying like.

The thing is SGT had got Watford through all the divisions in 5 years to runners up in the first division and an FA cup final, so he had an excellent track record. He got us up, then kept us up, then got us runners up in the first division and then became manager of England.

Please remind me what Dean Smith has actually ever done as a manager.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on June 28, 2020, 10:24:45 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on June 28, 2020, 06:59:44 PM
Quote from: KevinGage on June 28, 2020, 06:37:37 PM
Dyche or Hughton would be the obvious candidates.
Personally I would find that massively underwhelming.

Me too.

Tired of same old same old.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 28, 2020, 10:28:32 PM
Dyche has done a sight more than Hughton.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brazilian Villain on June 28, 2020, 10:35:32 PM
Was on a Bristol City forum earlier and a few of them are keen to go for Smith if/when we sack him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: RamboandBruno on June 28, 2020, 10:39:11 PM
Quote from: colin69 on June 28, 2020, 10:23:36 PM
Quote from: RamboandBruno on June 28, 2020, 10:08:29 PM
Despite the obvious fact that we are crap, we’re not actually down yet and the teams around us, including Pearson’s Watford, that is Pearson who lots were raving about when he took over their, are just as crap. Watford may have had a spectacular win over Liverpool but its the only win they’ve had in 10, that’s how long their new manager bounce has lasted. If after Liverpool and Man Utd, we are 3 or 4 points behind Bournemouth, West Ham and Watford then I think we are gone, if it’s 1 or 2 points and we have palace, Everton, arsenal and West Ham to play, then it’s all to play for.

And Dyche, I like Sean Dyche and his growl, but the irony that he got relegated with Burnley and they stuck with him, seems to have by passed a lot of Smith outers on here.We’re they heralded for then barnstorming football the year they last went down?
I’m almost past caring whether smith stays or goes, I’ve not enjoyed a game since Watford in January and that nearly gave me a heart attack. What I do know is, a lot of supporters would of realistically took 17th as an achievement this season after the way we came up and the rushed squad rebuild. Coming 17th invariably means you lose a lot of games, but this seems to have by passed a lot of people. However shite we are, and we are really hard to watch at the moment, coming 17th is not exactly the impossible given we’re on the same points as Bournemouth and West Ham and one behind Watford.
If the internet had existed in April and May 1989, it would of been interesting to see if SGT would of been getting this vitriol, as his Villa escaped an immediate return to Div 1 as it was,  by 1 point with a 1-1 draw with Cov on last day of the season. Just saying like.

The thing is SGT had got Watford through all the divisions in 5 years to runners up in the first division and an FA cup final, so he had an excellent track record. He got us up, then kept us up, then got us runners up in the first division and then became manager of England.

Please remind me what Dean Smith has actually ever done as a manager.

Missing my point really. I wasn’t comparing SGT and Smiths records, that would be stupid, not least as we have the whole of Taylor’s career to look back on. Only One of the points I was making in that post, was that if the internet had existed even someone of Taylor’s calibre as you’ve outlined, would of probably been getting stick on a forum like this. In fact in ‘real’ life come a bad start to the 89-90 season there was noise from some supporters about Taylor, I remember it and deadly was getting his trigger finger ready.

It seems to me that for a lot of this season a lot of posters have wanted smith out because of how the seasons going, not his managerial background. One of my other points was, we’re far from relegate...yet, given the points of those around us at the moment.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: DB on June 28, 2020, 10:39:27 PM
Percy reckons we are sticking with him until the end of the season
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Des Little on June 28, 2020, 10:39:40 PM
Percy just reporting that he’s more than likely staying in charge for the remaining games...
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on June 28, 2020, 10:39:56 PM
It doesn’t matter what we do it always seems to go down the toilet sooner or later.

In 2006 we bought in the best manager outside the top 4 of the time.  We lavished him with £200m odd and he got us to the heady heights of 6th place and a cup final.  At the time it was considered that he had underachieved and he landed us with Habib Beye and Marlon Harewood.  He flounces off because he couldn’t buy Aidan MnGeady.

Houllier a foreign coach that most now appear to be crying out for comes in.  Has a dodgy start but after telling the likes of Collins and Dunne he wanted them to stop getting pissed and eating pies we started to look better after peeing another £30m odd on Makoun and Bent.  Then being the Villa he goes and has a coronary under the strain and we are back to square one.

We lurch from there to McLeish.  We then cry out for the new MON Lambert under a wave of excitement only for that to turn into a massive disappointment although in hindsight keeping us up turned out to be a great achievement. 

In walks a brash cockney who well acts like a brash cockney and kept us up and then probably wouldn’t have done.  To be replaced by a former player and pundit on Canal plus.  Total disaster. A takeover lee money and a champions league winner.  Surely this will work.  No eleven games in.  Gone.  Let’s bring in a promotion expert.  Give him more money than the whole of the EFL combined.  Failure.  Let’s bring in a forward thinking coach a technical thinking one and a Villa man through and through.  Success we are up.  One year later disaster looms. 

We are doomed i tells ya. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VinnieChase84 on June 28, 2020, 10:40:04 PM
Deans not going anywhere (at least not this season)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 28, 2020, 10:44:13 PM
I don’t really get that. Sadly it is what it is. We seem to have accepted the unacceptable.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 28, 2020, 10:46:47 PM
I’m assuming the excuse this week will be Liverpool were more match ready having played a game a couple of days before.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on June 28, 2020, 11:08:42 PM
Quote from: brian green on June 28, 2020, 08:14:32 PM
A Baldrick given half a season, no money and a snake pit dressing room.

Agreed. He had his hands tied from the start and was in a no-win situation in many ways.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on June 28, 2020, 11:10:38 PM
Well if Smith is here unit the end I hope he can inject a little life into us. Anything like that cup game against Leicester will do nicely. I'd stick with two up front and bring Elmo in for Konsa and SJM for Nakamba.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: gpbarr on June 29, 2020, 12:19:39 AM
Nyland
Konsa    Mings.    Hause
Nakamba and Luiz sit in front of the back 3
Jack sitting in the middle in front of N/L
Davis with Samatta sitting off him up front

And the surprise
Ramsey and Vassilev floating in front of Jack - they simply cannot be worse than any of the shite we have seen there recently and, sometimes a wild card works.




Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ROBBO on June 29, 2020, 12:57:53 AM
Norwich are all but gone so it's two out of five, I cannot believe that we are that shit and still with a chance to stay up. Cannot for the life of me understand the logic of sticking with Smith, he plays the same record every week expecting to hear a different tune.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on June 29, 2020, 06:50:17 AM
It's two out of four for me. Brighton have only lost one out of their last seven so they'll make 40 points by the end of the season.

The other four are so bad it's almost painful. Since lockdown those four teams have played 11 matches combined with 0 wins, 3 draws, and 8 defeats. I'm starting to think that if any of us manages to win just one game it'll be enough to stay up!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 29, 2020, 07:40:14 AM
I see the Telegraph has Smith being backed for last 6 Games- Nursey.

Dyche power struggle at Burnley- separate article.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on June 29, 2020, 08:46:37 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on June 29, 2020, 07:40:14 AM
I see the Telegraph has Smith being backed for last 6 Games- Nursey.

Dyche power struggle at Burnley- separate article.

Has to happen today or I suspect it's not happening at all.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: RamboandBruno on June 29, 2020, 09:21:29 AM
Quote from: Ad@m on June 29, 2020, 06:50:17 AM
It's two out of four for me. Brighton have only lost one out of their last seven so they'll make 40 points by the end of the season.

The other four are so bad it's almost painful. Since lockdown those four teams have played 11 matches combined with 0 wins, 3 draws, and 8 defeats. I'm starting to think that if any of us manages to win just one game it'll be enough to stay up!

Agree about Brighton’s form, but they’ve also got to play Man Utd, Liverpool and Man City, so not convinced their completely out of it
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: MillerBall on June 29, 2020, 09:27:30 AM
If we were able to stay up there needs to be cash splashed on some decent strikers and a serious over haul of the squad, yet again.
Not convinced about Mr Smith at all I am afraid.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on June 29, 2020, 09:28:53 AM
Meanwhile, it is reported that they club has extended the loan deal for Pepe Reina and is  close to agreeing an extension for Danny Drinkwater.
Why?!!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 29, 2020, 09:48:09 AM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on June 29, 2020, 08:46:37 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on June 29, 2020, 07:40:14 AM
I see the Telegraph has Smith being backed for last 6 Games- Nursey.

Dyche power struggle at Burnley- separate article.

Has to happen today or I suspect it's not happening at all.
The transatlantic lets talk Monday call
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Neil Hawkes on June 29, 2020, 10:26:16 AM
Please remind me what Dean Smith has actually ever done as a manager.

Broken a club record of 10 wins on the trot & before you wheel out the standard of the opposition, note this had not been achieved during our previous stints in the 3rd & 2nd divisions, with supposedly superior managers.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: wince on June 29, 2020, 10:43:20 AM
Quote from: Neil Hawkes on June 29, 2020, 10:26:16 AM
Please remind me what Dean Smith has actually ever done as a manager.

Broken a club record of 10 wins on the trot & before you wheel out the standard of the opposition, note this had not been achieved during our previous stints in the 3rd & 2nd divisions, with supposedly superior managers.

To be honest I couldn’t give a toss about last season at this point as it was this season that mattered. We could have gone unbeaten last year but given we haven’t carried a run of form into this year, it means very little. If he stays, then we need a miracle, if he goes we need a miracle. Looking back at that interview going on about Norwich last season looks very small time now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on June 29, 2020, 10:46:52 AM
ui can only assume there is something in the contract he signed in October that eliminates or severely limits the amount of severance he gets if we are relegated, but of course it's a contract he should never have been given. Another clusterfuck of the kind only really experienced at Villa. Such is life.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on June 29, 2020, 10:50:20 AM
Quote from: wince on June 29, 2020, 10:43:20 AM
Quote from: Neil Hawkes on June 29, 2020, 10:26:16 AM
Please remind me what Dean Smith has actually ever done as a manager.

Broken a club record of 10 wins on the trot & before you wheel out the standard of the opposition, note this had not been achieved during our previous stints in the 3rd & 2nd divisions, with supposedly superior managers.

To be honest I couldn’t give a toss about last season at this point as it was this season that mattered. We could have gone unbeaten last year but given we haven’t carried a run of form into this year, it means very little. If he stays, then we need a miracle, if he goes we need a miracle. Looking back at that interview going on about Norwich last season looks very small time now.

We don't need a miracle. We need to get one point more than two other clubs.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: wince on June 29, 2020, 11:02:46 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on June 29, 2020, 10:50:20 AM
Quote from: wince on June 29, 2020, 10:43:20 AM
Quote from: Neil Hawkes on June 29, 2020, 10:26:16 AM
Please remind me what Dean Smith has actually ever done as a manager.

Broken a club record of 10 wins on the trot & before you wheel out the standard of the opposition, note this had not been achieved during our previous stints in the 3rd & 2nd divisions, with supposedly superior managers.

To be honest I couldn’t give a toss about last season at this point as it was this season that mattered. We could have gone unbeaten last year but given we haven’t carried a run of form into this year, it means very little. If he stays, then we need a miracle, if he goes we need a miracle. Looking back at that interview going on about Norwich last season looks very small time now.

We don't need a miracle. We need to get one point more than two other clubs.
As I said Dave, a miracle!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ROBBO on June 29, 2020, 11:04:11 AM
But how Dave? I amongst many called for two up front but that didn't work, it just seems he has run out of ideas and the only thing i can think of is to play Grealish as a forward and hope to get frees aroud the box.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on June 29, 2020, 11:11:27 AM
every game we’ve played since the restart we’ve had the opportunity of getting out of the bottom 3 with a win or sometimes even a draw

we have failed on every occasion to get the required result

it’s not looking good
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on June 29, 2020, 11:20:41 AM
Quote from: john e on June 29, 2020, 11:11:27 AM
every game we’ve played since the restart we’ve had the opportunity of getting out of the bottom 3 with a win or sometimes even a draw

we have failed on every occasion to get the required result

it’s not looking good

Every other club around us can say the same.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on June 29, 2020, 11:27:17 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on June 29, 2020, 11:20:41 AM
Quote from: john e on June 29, 2020, 11:11:27 AM
every game we’ve played since the restart we’ve had the opportunity of getting out of the bottom 3 with a win or sometimes even a draw

we have failed on every occasion to get the required result

it’s not looking good

Every other club around us can say the same.
Yes but we're the ones who have to make the running.  They're all above us, except Norwich obviously, and we're the ones playing catch up.  We can't just match them, we have to outperform them somewhere along the line.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on June 29, 2020, 11:29:35 AM
Technically, we have.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on June 29, 2020, 11:36:12 AM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on June 29, 2020, 11:29:35 AM
Technically, we have.
And yet there we sit in the bottom three, with an inferior goal difference and all the teams around us having a game in hand.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on June 29, 2020, 11:37:34 AM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on June 29, 2020, 11:36:12 AM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on June 29, 2020, 11:29:35 AM
Technically, we have.
And yet there we sit in the bottom three, with an inferior goal difference and all the teams around us having a game in hand.

Hence the “technically”. We’ve made up two points on them. It’s not enough but we have.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on June 29, 2020, 11:45:06 AM
We have also played four games to their two. Our goal difference is now worse and we still haven’t won a game! Spin it either way and it still comes out the colour of brown.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on June 29, 2020, 11:48:19 AM
I’m not spinning anything. I think we’ve been shit. We’re also two points better off than we were, having restarted having played a game less than the others.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on June 29, 2020, 11:50:24 AM
Sorry Sexy, I wasn’t saying you are spinning it. It was the Royal we, collective thing. (Although it’s still shit! 🤪)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Neil Hawkes on June 29, 2020, 02:22:07 PM
Quote from: wince on June 29, 2020, 10:43:20 AM
Quote from: Neil Hawkes on June 29, 2020, 10:26:16 AM
Please remind me what Dean Smith has actually ever done as a manager.

Broken a club record of 10 wins on the trot & before you wheel out the standard of the opposition, note this had not been achieved during our previous stints in the 3rd & 2nd divisions, with supposedly superior managers.

To be honest I couldn’t give a toss about last season at this point as it was this season that mattered. We could have gone unbeaten last year but given we haven’t carried a run of form into this year, it means very little. If he stays, then we need a miracle, if he goes we need a miracle. Looking back at that interview going on about Norwich last season looks very small time now.
The question was asked & I answered the question
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on June 29, 2020, 02:27:03 PM
Quote from: Newby on June 29, 2020, 11:50:24 AM
Sorry Sexy, I wasn’t saying you are spinning it. It was the Royal we, collective thing. (Although it’s still shit! 🤪)

Cansei de Ser Sexy - CSS. Mid-00s Brazilian pop band, they were good fun.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on June 29, 2020, 02:32:52 PM
That is very weird, I was playing their album earlier.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on June 29, 2020, 03:00:16 PM
We play West Ham, and it could very well come down to that match. Bournemouth are just as bad as we are form wise.

With Watford losing to Southampton, I'd say it's all still to play for. We just need a sneaky last gasp bundling of a ball over the line we don't have to be amazing.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Hookeysmith on June 29, 2020, 03:09:25 PM
Quote from: RamboandBruno on June 28, 2020, 10:08:29 PM
Despite the obvious fact that we are crap, we’re not actually down yet and the teams around us, including Pearson’s Watford, that is Pearson who lots were raving about when he took over their, are just as crap. Watford may have had a spectacular win over Liverpool but its the only win they’ve had in 10, that’s how long their new manager bounce has lasted. If after Liverpool and Man Utd, we are 3 or 4 points behind Bournemouth, West Ham and Watford then I think we are gone, if it’s 1 or 2 points and we have palace, Everton, arsenal and West Ham to play, then it’s all to play for.

And Dyche, I like Sean Dyche and his growl, but the irony that he got relegated with Burnley and they stuck with him, seems to have by passed a lot of Smith outers on here.We’re they heralded for then barnstorming football the year they last went down?
I’m almost past caring whether smith stays or goes, I’ve not enjoyed a game since Watford in January and that nearly gave me a heart attack. What I do know is, a lot of supporters would of realistically took 17th as an achievement this season after the way we came up and the rushed squad rebuild. Coming 17th invariably means you lose a lot of games, but this seems to have by passed a lot of people. However shite we are, and we are really hard to watch at the moment, coming 17th is not exactly the impossible given we’re on the same points as Bournemouth and West Ham and one behind Watford.
If the internet had existed in April and May 1989, it would of been interesting to see if SGT would of been getting this vitriol, as his Villa escaped an immediate return to Div 1 as it was,  by 1 point with a 1-1 draw with Cov on last day of the season. Just saying like.

excellent post
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on June 29, 2020, 03:18:27 PM
Quote from: Hookeysmith on June 29, 2020, 03:09:25 PM
Quote from: RamboandBruno on June 28, 2020, 10:08:29 PM
Despite the obvious fact that we are crap, we’re not actually down yet and the teams around us, including Pearson’s Watford, that is Pearson who lots were raving about when he took over their, are just as crap. Watford may have had a spectacular win over Liverpool but its the only win they’ve had in 10, that’s how long their new manager bounce has lasted. If after Liverpool and Man Utd, we are 3 or 4 points behind Bournemouth, West Ham and Watford then I think we are gone, if it’s 1 or 2 points and we have palace, Everton, arsenal and West Ham to play, then it’s all to play for.

And Dyche, I like Sean Dyche and his growl, but the irony that he got relegated with Burnley and they stuck with him, seems to have by passed a lot of Smith outers on here.We’re they heralded for then barnstorming football the year they last went down?
I’m almost past caring whether smith stays or goes, I’ve not enjoyed a game since Watford in January and that nearly gave me a heart attack. What I do know is, a lot of supporters would of realistically took 17th as an achievement this season after the way we came up and the rushed squad rebuild. Coming 17th invariably means you lose a lot of games, but this seems to have by passed a lot of people. However shite we are, and we are really hard to watch at the moment, coming 17th is not exactly the impossible given we’re on the same points as Bournemouth and West Ham and one behind Watford.
If the internet had existed in April and May 1989, it would of been interesting to see if SGT would of been getting this vitriol, as his Villa escaped an immediate return to Div 1 as it was,  by 1 point with a 1-1 draw with Cov on last day of the season. Just saying like.

excellent post
Although, according to the poll on here, 98.4% of H&Vers thought - realistically - we'd finish 17th or higher.  45% thought we'd finish 12th or higher.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 29, 2020, 03:20:40 PM
Also struggling with the SGT Smith comparison.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on June 29, 2020, 03:20:48 PM
Breaking: football fans proven optimistic after playoff victory.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on June 29, 2020, 03:22:08 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on June 29, 2020, 03:20:48 PM
Breaking: football fans proven optomistic after playoff victory.
That would have been the 'optimistic expectations' thread rather than the 'realistic expectations' thread.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: montague on June 29, 2020, 03:43:52 PM
Looking at the run ins its clearly going to be tight. I would forecast that going into the last game Watford and Bournemouth will have 34 points and Wham and AV 33 with AV having the worse goal diff. Its going down to the last day unless we can pull a surprise somewhere. I think we will have to beat Wham and then rely on Arse or Everton to do us a favour

Watford 28pts 6 to play
Chel(a)  Norw(h)  Newcle (h)   Wham (a)   ManCity (h)   Arse  (a)

WestHam  27 pts  7 to play
Chel(h)  Newcle(a)  Burn(h)  Norw(a)  Watford(h)   MU(a)  AV(h)

AFCB  27 points  7 to play
Newcl(h)  MU(a)  Spurs(h)  Leic(h)  ManCity(a)  Soton(h)  Ev(a)

AV  27 points  6 to play
Liv(a)  MU(h)  CP(h)  Ev(a)  Arse(h)  Wham(a)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on June 29, 2020, 03:45:18 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on June 29, 2020, 03:18:27 PM
Quote from: Hookeysmith on June 29, 2020, 03:09:25 PM
Quote from: RamboandBruno on June 28, 2020, 10:08:29 PM
Despite the obvious fact that we are crap, we’re not actually down yet and the teams around us, including Pearson’s Watford, that is Pearson who lots were raving about when he took over their, are just as crap. Watford may have had a spectacular win over Liverpool but its the only win they’ve had in 10, that’s how long their new manager bounce has lasted. If after Liverpool and Man Utd, we are 3 or 4 points behind Bournemouth, West Ham and Watford then I think we are gone, if it’s 1 or 2 points and we have palace, Everton, arsenal and West Ham to play, then it’s all to play for.

And Dyche, I like Sean Dyche and his growl, but the irony that he got relegated with Burnley and they stuck with him, seems to have by passed a lot of Smith outers on here.We’re they heralded for then barnstorming football the year they last went down?
I’m almost past caring whether smith stays or goes, I’ve not enjoyed a game since Watford in January and that nearly gave me a heart attack. What I do know is, a lot of supporters would of realistically took 17th as an achievement this season after the way we came up and the rushed squad rebuild. Coming 17th invariably means you lose a lot of games, but this seems to have by passed a lot of people. However shite we are, and we are really hard to watch at the moment, coming 17th is not exactly the impossible given we’re on the same points as Bournemouth and West Ham and one behind Watford.
If the internet had existed in April and May 1989, it would of been interesting to see if SGT would of been getting this vitriol, as his Villa escaped an immediate return to Div 1 as it was,  by 1 point with a 1-1 draw with Cov on last day of the season. Just saying like.

excellent post
Although, according to the poll on here, 98.4% of H&Vers thought - realistically - we'd finish 17th or higher.  45% thought we'd finish 12th or higher.

43.6% of voters voted for Boris Johnson. It's fair to say that a large number of people are utterly deluded.

I think I said we'd finish top six.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brazilian Villain on June 29, 2020, 03:46:12 PM
Quote from: montague on June 29, 2020, 03:43:52 PM
Looking at the run ins its clearly going to be tight. I would forecast that going into the last game Watford and Bournemouth will have 34 points and Wham and AV 33 with AV having the worse goal diff. Its going down to the last day unless we can pull a surprise somewhere. I think we will have to beat Wham and then rely on Arse or Everton to do us a favour

Just curious, where are our 6 points coming from before the West Ham game?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on June 29, 2020, 03:48:47 PM
28.5% of those entitled to vote voted for Johnson.  You get the government you deserve you get the football club you deserve.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on June 29, 2020, 03:57:37 PM
Quote from: LeeB on June 29, 2020, 03:45:18 PM
43.6% of voters voted for Boris Johnson. It's fair to say that a large number of people are utterly deluded.

I think I said we'd finish top six.
I was just rereading it actually and even allowing for pre-season optimism there's some delusional stuff on there.  Someone even said that our lack of experience would be an advantage.  Of course anything we post on here is a hostage to fortune - and I'm as guilty of that as anyone - but expectations were being revised after 2 games. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on June 29, 2020, 04:00:51 PM
Quote from: brian green on June 29, 2020, 03:48:47 PM
28.5% of those entitled to vote voted for Johnson.  You get the government you deserve you get the football club you deserve.

How did Liverpool supporters get what they deserve?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on June 29, 2020, 04:08:13 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on June 29, 2020, 04:00:51 PM
Quote from: brian green on June 29, 2020, 03:48:47 PM
28.5% of those entitled to vote voted for Johnson.  You get the government you deserve you get the football club you deserve.

How did Liverpool supporters get what they deserve?

30 years of hurt..............................................................
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on June 29, 2020, 04:16:20 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on June 29, 2020, 04:08:13 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on June 29, 2020, 04:00:51 PM
Quote from: brian green on June 29, 2020, 03:48:47 PM
28.5% of those entitled to vote voted for Johnson.  You get the government you deserve you get the football club you deserve.

How did Liverpool supporters get what they deserve?

30 years of hurt..............................................................
as opposed to 63 years of hurt
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on June 29, 2020, 04:31:41 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on June 29, 2020, 04:00:51 PM
Quote from: brian green on June 29, 2020, 03:48:47 PM
28.5% of those entitled to vote voted for Johnson.  You get the government you deserve you get the football club you deserve.

How did Liverpool supporters get what they deserve?

They stuck by their boys during the dark days of Fa Cup and Champions League wins.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on June 29, 2020, 04:33:05 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on June 29, 2020, 03:18:27 PM
Although, according to the poll on here, 98.4% of H&Vers thought - realistically - we'd finish 17th or higher.  45% thought we'd finish 12th or higher.

I was convinced we'd finish 12th but how was I to know we'd play all season without a recognised striker or any half decent wingers. Biggest shock however has been our defence, an area I thought be were well prepared for. I never thought we'd end up having the worse defence in the league.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: David_Nab on June 29, 2020, 04:47:14 PM
Quote from: aj2k77 on June 29, 2020, 04:31:41 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on June 29, 2020, 04:00:51 PM
Quote from: brian green on June 29, 2020, 03:48:47 PM
28.5% of those entitled to vote voted for Johnson.  You get the government you deserve you get the football club you deserve.

How did Liverpool supporters get what they deserve?

They stuck by their boys during the dark days of Fa Cup and Champions League wins.

Didn't they also suffer the hurt of finishing a lowly 5th one season , dark times for them ....
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on June 29, 2020, 04:47:48 PM
There's no reason at all that finishing around 12th should have been beyond us.  Everybody from say, Burnley in 11th down is eminently beatable, and it's really just down to shit scouting, and even shitter coaching that we are where we are. 

Burnley's midfield this season has mostly been Ashley Westwood, Jack Cork, Jeff Hendrick and Dwight McNeil.  Pretty bloody ordinary by anybody's standards, but coached into an effective unit by Dyche.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Simon Page on June 29, 2020, 05:12:14 PM
I'm glad to see a properly coached Ashley Westwood has been promoted to pretty bloody ordinary. I told you he was alright.

Actually, pro-Westwood baiting aside, it's interesting that he's in a more effective midfield than ours which includes a Brazilian international, Super John McGinn and someone widely regarded as our best young player since probably Gary Shaw. Christ we've wasted some opportunities over the years with our short-term, shit or bust approach. It's scary to see names associated with our utterly shite last decade doing perfectly well in the Premier League.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on June 29, 2020, 05:12:44 PM
I square the circle of my conscience.  I do not see it as Liverpool winning the title.  I see it as everybody else losing it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: David_Nab on June 29, 2020, 05:13:18 PM
Quote from: Risso on June 29, 2020, 04:47:48 PM
There's no reason at all that finishing around 12th should have been beyond us.  Everybody from say, Burnley in 11th down is eminently beatable, and it's really just down to shit scouting, and even shitter coaching that we are where we are. 

Burnley's midfield this season has mostly been Ashley Westwood, Jack Cork, Jeff Hendrick and Dwight McNeil.  Pretty bloody ordinary by anybody's standards, but coached into an effective unit by Dyche.

Smith has pointed out in recent games we have been harder to beat , if we had been like that from the start we would of been boring maybe but gotten some draws along the way.Palace are not far off top 6 and are one of the lowest scorers in the league but they keep goals out.

Liverpool have been great this season but overall I thing the league has been very ordinary with alot of the top teams United , Chelsea , Spurs and Arsenal all having issues putting runs together and yet we haven't taken points of any of them.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on June 29, 2020, 05:19:20 PM
Just like I don't see the Conservative and Unionist Parties winning the last General Election by 80 seats, I see the 71.5% of those entitled to vote losing it by 80 seats.  Sorry I know this is not the place but somehow the media anus slurping of Liverpool FC and Boris Johnson is part of the agony of being alive at this time.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on June 29, 2020, 05:47:47 PM
Quote from: David_Nab on June 29, 2020, 05:13:18 PM
Smith has pointed out in recent games we have been harder to beat , if we had been like that from the start we would of been boring maybe but gotten some draws along the way.Palace are not far off top 6 and are one of the lowest scorers in the league but they keep goals out.

Only Norwich and Steve Bruce's Newcastle have scored fewer goals than Palace. We've scored 6 more goals than Sheff Utd but conceded twice as many as them.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on June 29, 2020, 05:54:00 PM
Quote from: Simon Page on June 29, 2020, 05:12:14 PM
I'm glad to see a properly coached Ashley Westwood has been promoted to pretty bloody ordinary. I told you he was alright.

Actually, pro-Westwood baiting aside, it's interesting that he's in a more effective midfield than ours which includes a Brazilian international, Super John McGinn and someone widely regarded as our best young player since probably Gary Shaw. Christ we've wasted some opportunities over the years with our short-term, shit or bust approach. It's scary to see names associated with our utterly shite last decade doing perfectly well in the Premier League.

I'd say Bruce and perhaps O'Neill were our only shit-or-bust appointments since Docherty, and the extent to which it applied to O'Neill only being apparent after he'd gone. There's largely been longer term plans with objectives, we've simply ballsed the execution up time and time and time again.

In fact, thinking about it, it's almost always gone tits-up when we've used our egg basket for a centre-forward that either flopped, was past it, or lasted a little over 5 minutes before having to retire. Buy better strikers, Villa.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on June 29, 2020, 06:12:15 PM
Tommy Docherty was treated like we treated Remi Garde.  We had to pass the hat round to buy Bruce Rioch for £100,000 from Luton.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chris Smith on June 29, 2020, 06:12:54 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on June 29, 2020, 05:47:47 PM
Quote from: David_Nab on June 29, 2020, 05:13:18 PM
Smith has pointed out in recent games we have been harder to beat , if we had been like that from the start we would of been boring maybe but gotten some draws along the way.Palace are not far off top 6 and are one of the lowest scorers in the league but they keep goals out.

Only Norwich and Steve Bruce's Newcastle have scored fewer goals than Palace. We've scored 6 more goals than Sheff Utd but conceded twice as many as them.

It’s only been since we lost Heaton (and Wesley) that our goal difference has gone to pot and our league position has declined accordingly. I can’t help thinking that if we do go down that game at Burnley will be pivotal. It was one of our best performances but losing two key players put a stop to any chance of gaining any momentum from it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Simon Page on June 29, 2020, 06:13:24 PM
I'm thinking less in terms of managerial appointments and more our transfer policy coupled with what we end up putting out on a Saturday and what we've coached them to do. Young and hungry, proven at a level, ticky-tack, Villa Engine, allez le bleu...
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AV82EC on June 29, 2020, 06:18:16 PM
Quote from: Chris Smith on June 29, 2020, 06:12:54 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on June 29, 2020, 05:47:47 PM
Quote from: David_Nab on June 29, 2020, 05:13:18 PM
Smith has pointed out in recent games we have been harder to beat , if we had been like that from the start we would of been boring maybe but gotten some draws along the way.Palace are not far off top 6 and are one of the lowest scorers in the league but they keep goals out.

Only Norwich and Steve Bruce's Newcastle have scored fewer goals than Palace. We've scored 6 more goals than Sheff Utd but conceded twice as many as them.

It’s only been since we lost Heaton (and Wesley) that our goal difference has gone to pot and our league position has declined accordingly. I can’t help thinking that if we do go down that game at Burnley will be pivotal. It was one of our best performances but losing two key players put a stop to any chance of gaining any momentum from it.

Yep we looked very good that day, Jack was unplayable, Wesley commanding up top and Dougie running it in the middle. Then fate intervened and we’ve been pretty cack  ever since.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KevinGage on June 29, 2020, 06:19:02 PM
Quote from: brian green on June 29, 2020, 05:19:20 PM
Just like I don't see the Conservative and Unionist Parties winning the last General Election by 80 seats, I see the 71.5% of those entitled to vote losing it by 80 seats.  Sorry I know this is not the place but somehow the media anus slurping of Liverpool FC and Boris Johnson is part of the agony of being alive at this time.

Utterly horrendous. On both counts.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on June 29, 2020, 06:19:06 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on June 29, 2020, 03:18:27 PM
Quote from: Hookeysmith on June 29, 2020, 03:09:25 PM
Quote from: RamboandBruno on June 28, 2020, 10:08:29 PM
Despite the obvious fact that we are crap, we’re not actually down yet and the teams around us, including Pearson’s Watford, that is Pearson who lots were raving about when he took over their, are just as crap. Watford may have had a spectacular win over Liverpool but its the only win they’ve had in 10, that’s how long their new manager bounce has lasted. If after Liverpool and Man Utd, we are 3 or 4 points behind Bournemouth, West Ham and Watford then I think we are gone, if it’s 1 or 2 points and we have palace, Everton, arsenal and West Ham to play, then it’s all to play for.

And Dyche, I like Sean Dyche and his growl, but the irony that he got relegated with Burnley and they stuck with him, seems to have by passed a lot of Smith outers on here.We’re they heralded for then barnstorming football the year they last went down?
I’m almost past caring whether smith stays or goes, I’ve not enjoyed a game since Watford in January and that nearly gave me a heart attack. What I do know is, a lot of supporters would of realistically took 17th as an achievement this season after the way we came up and the rushed squad rebuild. Coming 17th invariably means you lose a lot of games, but this seems to have by passed a lot of people. However shite we are, and we are really hard to watch at the moment, coming 17th is not exactly the impossible given we’re on the same points as Bournemouth and West Ham and one behind Watford.
If the internet had existed in April and May 1989, it would of been interesting to see if SGT would of been getting this vitriol, as his Villa escaped an immediate return to Div 1 as it was,  by 1 point with a 1-1 draw with Cov on last day of the season. Just saying like.

excellent post
Although, according to the poll on here, 98.4% of H&Vers thought - realistically - we'd finish 17th or higher.  45% thought we'd finish 12th or higher.

Lies, damn lies... Over half of those that voted went for 13th-17th, a spot in which we're currently denied by goal difference.

Those that voted for that, how did you think we'd achieve these heights? A season long battle, or gently but safely descending there with two games to go?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on June 29, 2020, 06:23:39 PM
Quote from: Simon Page on June 29, 2020, 05:12:14 PM
... includes a Brazilian international, Super John McGinn and someone widely regarded as our best young player since probably Gary Shaw...
what's let this credible MF down has been the bleedin' awful defending. Having a tighter defence - and the confidence that comes with that - means that our MF would have been able to play more offensively (bringing in Doug was also going to take a while for him to get acclimatised to the EPL).
Everything comes back to the continual achilles heel that we've had for several seasons: poorly coached defence (despite having an ex CB as manager and an ex CB as coach).
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on June 29, 2020, 06:23:52 PM
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on June 29, 2020, 06:19:06 PM
Lies, damn lies... Over half of those that voted went for 13th-17th, a spot in which we're currently denied by goal difference.
And 13 points off 13th.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on June 29, 2020, 07:03:30 PM
Quote from: Mister E on June 29, 2020, 06:23:39 PM
Quote from: Simon Page on June 29, 2020, 05:12:14 PM
... includes a Brazilian international, Super John McGinn and someone widely regarded as our best young player since probably Gary Shaw...
what's let this credible MF down has been the bleedin' awful defending. Having a tighter defence - and the confidence that comes with that - means that our MF would have been able to play more offensively (bringing in Doug was also going to take a while for him to get acclimatised to the EPL).
Everything comes back to the continual achilles heel that we've had for several seasons: poorly coached defence (despite having an ex CB as manager and an ex CB as coach).

It's a lot wider than that.  Our forwards don't hold the ball up, therefore, we don't 'defend from the front'.  We don't protect the defence because we have no physicality at all.  When was the last time one our midfielders made a crunching, you had to look away, tackle?  We are seriously piss weak in midfield.  In defence, we lack concentration, are not touch tight, ever, struggle to defend against good movement, which comes down to communication and concentration, oh, and our keepers do not command respect and other than Heaton, are a liability.   Every aspect of the team is very, very poor. Don't get me started on our wingers!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: N'ZMAV on June 29, 2020, 07:12:32 PM
it could be that the team, coaching, scouting, management, set plays, tactics, style of play, everything is just not good enough - I can't say I've seen anything other than Grealish that's been good enough this season. It's all been rather pathetic.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: RamboandBruno on June 29, 2020, 08:18:33 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on June 29, 2020, 03:20:40 PM
Also struggling with the SGT Smith comparison.

I wasn’t comparing SGT and Smith, I was comparing the league situations of the 88-89 team and now, having both come up and both fighting relegation the season after coming up. One of the points I was making even the likes of SGT would of got ‘stick’ on a forum like this, that season. But it was only one point in the overall post
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on June 29, 2020, 08:28:03 PM
Would have
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: RamboandBruno on June 29, 2020, 08:31:33 PM
Quote from: brian green on June 29, 2020, 08:28:03 PM
Would have

Thank you!

All hypothetical nonsense though I admit
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on June 29, 2020, 08:33:28 PM
Quote from: RamboandBruno on June 29, 2020, 08:31:33 PM
Quote from: brian green on June 29, 2020, 08:28:03 PM
Would have

Thank you!

All hypothetical nonsense though I admit

I do remember standing on the Holte End during that season and there were murmurings about SGT out.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 29, 2020, 08:36:54 PM
If it was written by a reporter it would be labelled as lazy journalism.
It was Swindon.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on June 29, 2020, 08:37:40 PM
One very important difference between SGT and DS was that SGT won the hearts and minds of the fans with his total honesty.  He told it how he saw it.  No flannel, no bull, no excuses.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: RamboandBruno on June 29, 2020, 08:46:31 PM
Quote from: brian green on June 29, 2020, 08:37:40 PM
One very important difference between SGT and DS was that SGT won the hearts and minds of the fans with his total honesty.  He told it how he saw it.  No flannel, no bull, no excuses.

Yes I agree. But I wasn’t comparing SGT to Smith.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: myf on June 29, 2020, 08:48:14 PM
Quote from: Risso on June 29, 2020, 04:47:48 PM
There's no reason at all that finishing around 12th should have been beyond us.  Everybody from say, Burnley in 11th down is eminently beatable, and it's really just down to shit scouting, and even shitter coaching that we are where we are. 

Burnley's midfield this season has mostly been Ashley Westwood, Jack Cork, Jeff Hendrick and Dwight McNeil.  Pretty bloody ordinary by anybody's standards, but coached into an effective unit by Dyche.

just watching them now. you can just see the aggression, hunger and fight across the whole team. haven't got a clue who most of their players are
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Richard E on June 29, 2020, 08:50:44 PM
Yet we took 4 points off them but couldn’t beat ten man West Ham and lost home and away to Bournemouth. Villa in a nutshell.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on June 29, 2020, 08:59:00 PM
I know that Rambo.  My comments were not intended to suggest otherwise.  Lazy posting on my part for which I apologise.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on June 29, 2020, 09:20:49 PM
If Dyche was appointed, would Villa Park be full every game?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: RamboandBruno on June 29, 2020, 09:46:55 PM
Quote from: brian green on June 29, 2020, 08:59:00 PM
I know that Rambo.  My comments were not intended to suggest otherwise.  Lazy posting on my part for which I apologise.

No worries Brian. Oh for a Graham Taylor now hey
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on June 29, 2020, 09:48:33 PM
He was one of a kind. A great man.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on June 29, 2020, 10:49:35 PM
I have heard of Offa's Dyke.  If he joined us VP would be filled by a ticketing strategy known as Dyche's Offers.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on June 29, 2020, 10:59:26 PM
Quote from: brian green on June 29, 2020, 10:49:35 PM
I have heard of Offa's Dyke.  If he joined us VP would be filled by a ticketing strategy known as Dyche's Offers.
This has a nice Two Ronnies flavour to it.  Bravo.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on June 29, 2020, 11:36:06 PM
If things are to take on a Salopian* flavour then I guess I have to be in favour.

*Graham Turner notwithstanding
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on June 30, 2020, 07:11:00 AM
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on June 29, 2020, 09:20:49 PM
If Dyche was appointed, would Villa Park be full every game?

If we won games it would be.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on June 30, 2020, 09:35:53 AM
If he did join then as soon as we went on a bad run the razor blades (usually the ones he swallows) will be out.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on June 30, 2020, 09:41:00 AM
Quote from: David_Nab on June 29, 2020, 05:13:18 PM
Quote from: Risso on June 29, 2020, 04:47:48 PM
There's no reason at all that finishing around 12th should have been beyond us.  Everybody from say, Burnley in 11th down is eminently beatable, and it's really just down to shit scouting, and even shitter coaching that we are where we are. 

Burnley's midfield this season has mostly been Ashley Westwood, Jack Cork, Jeff Hendrick and Dwight McNeil.  Pretty bloody ordinary by anybody's standards, but coached into an effective unit by Dyche.

Smith has pointed out in recent games we have been harder to beat , if we had been like that from the start we would of been boring maybe but gotten some draws along the way.Palace are not far off top 6 and are one of the lowest scorers in the league but they keep goals out.

Liverpool have been great this season but overall I thing the league has been very ordinary with alot of the top teams United , Chelsea , Spurs and Arsenal all having issues putting runs together and yet we haven't taken points of any of them.



I suspect by "harder to beat" he just means we're not getting horsed 4 or 5 nil with the players barely breaking a sweat, like the game against Leicester just before lockdown.  In terms of ctually making it difficult for teams to beat us, I haven't really noticed much of a difference.  No attacking play from us, and customary mistakes meaning that we give away goals far too cheaply.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on June 30, 2020, 11:08:51 AM
"Harder to beat" possibly but it's still not exactly difficult is it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on June 30, 2020, 11:14:01 AM
Harder to beat and yet it still happens. Two points from four games since the restart. 19 for a whole season if we continued that trend. And yet he still spins it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Axl Rose on June 30, 2020, 11:22:25 AM
I was hoping he'd have been sacked by now, and was hoping the owners to be a little more ruthless. Please axe that slimy Purslow, too.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on June 30, 2020, 11:30:49 AM
Burnley looked diabolical when we beat them and they are now in with a shout at European qualification. i certainly wouldn't turn my nose up at froggy Dyche.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Axl Rose on June 30, 2020, 11:38:47 AM
Quote from: mr underhill on June 30, 2020, 11:30:49 AM
Burnley looked diabolical when we beat them and they are now in with a shout at European qualification. i certainly wouldn't turn my nose up at froggy Dyche.

I would. I'd prefer someone a bit more exciting. Ancelotti at Everton, Nuno at Wolves, calibre. I want to see good football with players full of energy, speed, passion and skill.

This current team are dreadful to watch, full of lazy, slow, hoofball fuckers. After a possible initial upturn with Dyche, we'd be back at the above within 6 months. No thank you. Could have kept Bruce if Dyche is the target.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Footy-Vill on June 30, 2020, 12:35:50 PM
Let's dispell the idea that changing manager for a promoted team is so successful. Another fallacy like the 40pts thing.

Since the premier league went to a 20 team league back in 95 there have been 71 promotions

And 19 out of 71 promoted club got rid of their promotion wimning manager in a effort to stay up but only 6 times did a new manager keep the club up .

So really it did makes sense to stay with Dean Smith. And the reality in changing manager hoping for change of fortune isn't so great actually.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on June 30, 2020, 12:38:32 PM
let's not footy, His managerial skill set this season could've been written across a gnat's bollock with room to spare for War and Peace.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on June 30, 2020, 12:38:35 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on June 29, 2020, 11:36:06 PM
If things are to take on a Salopian* flavour then I guess I have to be in favour.

*Graham Turner notwithstanding

All of the very best posters on here are from Shropshire
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on June 30, 2020, 12:38:37 PM
Quote from: Vill I An on June 30, 2020, 12:35:50 PM
And 19 out of 71 promoted club got rid of their promotion wimning manager in a effort to stay up but only 6 times did a new manager keep the club up .
That's a bit misleading though.  I'm sure that in some of the cases the previous manager had fucked up so badly that relegation was inevitable, or that the new guy simply didn't have enough time.  But you have to try nonetheless and as you say it does work sometimes.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on June 30, 2020, 12:41:27 PM
Quote from: Vill I An on June 30, 2020, 12:35:50 PM
Let's dispell the idea that changing manager for a promoted team is so successful. Another fallacy like the 40pts thing.

Since the premier league went to a 20 team league back in 95 there have been 71 promotions

And 19 out of 71 promoted club got rid of their promotion wimning manager in a effort to stay up but only 6 times did a new manager keep the club up .

So really it did makes sense to stay with Dean Smith. And the reality in changing manager hoping for change of fortune isn't so great actually.

Hmmmm, I'll take that with a pinch of salt, but could you answer the following:

How many teams who didn't change their manager stayed up?
How many teams in the bottom three with 8 games to go have avoided the drop?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Des Little on June 30, 2020, 12:44:15 PM
Quote from: Risso on June 30, 2020, 12:38:35 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on June 29, 2020, 11:36:06 PM
If things are to take on a Salopian* flavour then I guess I have to be in favour.

*Graham Turner notwithstanding

All of the very best posters on here are from Shropshire

Typical Vile.  Not from Brum.  SOTV etc
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Smithy on June 30, 2020, 12:47:50 PM
I suspect the "harder to beat" comment comes from conceding only four goals in four games, instead of the more than two per game we were shipping before lockdown. We're also conceding fewer chances per game. Only the top three in the league average less than a goal a game conceded - so he does have a point, but clearly this has all come at a cost of making us a MUCH less potent attacking threat.

And I suspect our goals conceded per game since the lockdown will look a little different after Sunday...

Even when we were dire earlier in the season, I always thought we could score a goal or two. It just always seemed like we'd concede more than that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on June 30, 2020, 01:43:18 PM
Quote from: Risso on June 30, 2020, 12:41:27 PM
Quote from: Vill I An on June 30, 2020, 12:35:50 PM
Let's dispell the idea that changing manager for a promoted team is so successful. Another fallacy like the 40pts thing.

Since the premier league went to a 20 team league back in 95 there have been 71 promotions

And 19 out of 71 promoted club got rid of their promotion wimning manager in a effort to stay up but only 6 times did a new manager keep the club up .

So really it did makes sense to stay with Dean Smith. And the reality in changing manager hoping for change of fortune isn't so great actually.

Hmmmm, I'll take that with a pinch of salt, but could you answer the following:

How many teams who didn't change their manager stayed up?
How many teams in the bottom three with 8 games to go have avoided the drop?

That boy certainly has some time on his hands.  That is some set of stats.  I reckon he is Michael Burry in disguise.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on June 30, 2020, 03:26:18 PM
Quote from: mr underhill on June 30, 2020, 12:38:32 PM
let's not footy, His managerial skill set this season could've been written across a gnat's bollock with room to spare for War and Peace.

Its sad to realise that no gnat is ever likely to ponder upon this view.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Footy-Vill on June 30, 2020, 03:46:55 PM
I guess Dean biggest difficulty has been sorting out the defence because he always been an attack minded coach
Perhaps so much concentration has had to go in to rearranging Smith football philosophy it's detrimental to coaching ? Maybe ?

What we can say is it's interesting to see how well Brentford are doing.
I believe Thomas Frank who's now head coach would learn a lot from Dean Smith no? Brentford under Thomas Franks has strengthen in the defence, which working wonders, but still having an attack minded set up.

Getting the balance at villa this season has been a big difficulty. I see it as 2nd problem to the 1st being gelling a team together. Don't forget he's been served a salmagundi for a main course meal.

I'm convinced if Smith had a settled team/squad and a premier league season then we see a fair reflection of up tempo rather than tepid displays.
 


Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: 260475 on June 30, 2020, 03:55:49 PM
Struggling with that concept. 'Up tempo and settled' comes from how the team is managed.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Footy-Vill on June 30, 2020, 05:12:15 PM
Quote from: Risso on June 30, 2020, 12:41:27 PM
Quote from: Vill I An on June 30, 2020, 12:35:50 PM
Let's dispell the idea that changing manager for a promoted team is so successful. Another fallacy like the 40pts thing.

Since the premier league went to a 20 team league back in 95 there have been 71 promotions

And 19 out of 71 promoted club got rid of their promotion wimning manager in a effort to stay up but only 6 times did a new manager keep the club up .

So really it did makes sense to stay with Dean Smith. And the reality in changing manager hoping for change of fortune isn't so great actually.

Hmmmm, I'll take that with a pinch of salt, but could you answer the following:

How many teams who didn't change their manager stayed up?
How many teams in the bottom three with 8 games to go have avoided the drop?

I don't have those figures at this stage .
I can tell you Sam Allardyce shared his survival blueprint via sky sports and I may be able to come up with some of his stats for the current bottom clubs and see where we are say before the weekend and after all games are equal again or maybe after the villa game ??
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on June 30, 2020, 05:43:34 PM
Quote from: Vill I An on June 30, 2020, 05:21:53 PM
In 2017 via sky sports Sam Allardyce shared his survival blueprint-
1.Keep clean sheets
2. Don't lose possession in your own half
3.Play the first pass forward
4.Win Knock downs and Transitions
5.Prioritise set pieces - both offensively and defensively . (Score from them and don't concede from them)
6.Exploit oppositions weaknesses
7.Have quality in the final third- take your goalscoring chances.
Well, that list certainly explains why we are where we are; we're doing none of these!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: N'ZMAV on June 30, 2020, 05:49:16 PM
I would like to see Smith get the full season, but I imagine that'll end in relegation.
My issue with Smith at the moment is the basics are toss.
If the coaches could improve the players basic skills of movement, passing to each other and concentrating then we could have a chance.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on June 30, 2020, 06:00:35 PM
The thing that puts me off Dyche is not that he's lacking as a manager (he isn't) it's that it's fits our depressingly predictable rebound approach to reruitment where we lurch from supposedly forward thinking/expansive football guy to supposedly safe pair of hands, meaning at any one time half the squad is unsuited to the way we're trying to play.

I don't think smith is the answer but someone that is better at the kind of football he tried to get us playing is.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on June 30, 2020, 06:10:09 PM
Quote from: themossman on June 30, 2020, 06:00:35 PM
The thing that puts me off Dyche is not that he's lacking as a manager (he isn't) it's that it's fits our depressingly predictable rebound approach to reruitment where we lurch from supposedly forward thinking/expansive football guy to supposedly safe pair of hands, meaning at any one time half the squad is unsuited to the way we're trying to play.

I don't think smith is the answer but someone that is better at the kind of football he tried to get us playing is.

Yes please.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: N'ZMAV on June 30, 2020, 06:12:26 PM
Smith was the right appointment at the time. Same as MON was, similar to BFR and Brian Little.
Things just don't work out sometimes...
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on June 30, 2020, 06:37:55 PM
Quote from: N'ZMAV on June 30, 2020, 06:12:26 PM
Smith was the right appointment at the time. Same as MON was, similar to BFR and Brian Little.
Things just don't work out sometimes...

I agree with this. He was the perfect guy for the short term job of getting some bounce back into us and deserves lots of credit for what he did.

He deserved a run to Christmas but at that point he should have been allowed to walk away a hero forever, the club would have been the bad guys but soon forgotten if we’d got he recruitment right.

For whatever reason he wasn’t and it didn’t do him any favours in the end. If we go down and it’s worse than 50/50 then he’s undone his good work in the eyes of a lot of fans. And we’re probably recruiting from a position of weakness AgAiN.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on June 30, 2020, 06:59:17 PM
Quote from: themossman on June 30, 2020, 06:00:35 PM
The thing that puts me off Dyche is not that he's lacking as a manager (he isn't) it's that it's fits our depressingly predictable rebound approach to reruitment where we lurch from supposedly forward thinking/expansive football guy to supposedly safe pair of hands, meaning at any one time half the squad is unsuited to the way we're trying to play.

I don't think smith is the answer but someone that is better at the kind of football he tried to get us playing is.

I don't think it matters who we get in post-Smith to be honest, as a new manager will always want his own players anyway.  Smith might well want to play a quick, attacking, passing game, which makes it a shame that none of the players he has bought or had bought for him are quick or good at passing.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: wince on June 30, 2020, 07:30:06 PM
It’s the depressing merrygoround names we end up wanting. Dyche yes, has no money and done ok at Burnley. Yet he would spunk his wad at having money to spend, like Bruce did and still serve up the depressing style of football that would see us one year in the top half of the table and another circling with the turds at the bottom. People want fat Sam, another dinosaur that only works short term for many clubs. Moyes was bandied about a few years ago, again dire turgid football. Smith may come good, probably not yet but we need proven coaching staff who aren’t stuck in the past couples with players of a quality to work to a game plan and a game plan that doesn’t consist of hoofing the ball up the field and hoping someone gets it or inviting our star player to get mauled so we can win a free kick (then usually spoon the kick).
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: RamboandBruno on June 30, 2020, 07:34:43 PM
Quote from: wince on June 30, 2020, 07:30:06 PM
It’s the depressing merrygoround names we end up wanting. Dyche yes, has no money and done ok at Burnley. Yet he would spunk his wad at having money to spend, like Bruce did and still serve up the depressing style of football that would see us one year in the top half of the table and another circling with the turds at the bottom. People want fat Sam, another dinosaur that only works short term for many clubs. Moyes was bandied about a few years ago, again dire turgid football. Smith may come good, probably not yet but we need proven coaching staff who aren’t stuck in the past couples with players of a quality to work to a game plan and a game plan that doesn’t consist of hoofing the ball up the field and hoping someone gets it or inviting our star player to get mauled so we can win a free kick (then usually spoon the kick).

Absolutely spot on post. Not sure it will go down too well on this thread though!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 30, 2020, 07:39:54 PM
Quote from: RamboandBruno on June 30, 2020, 07:34:43 PM
Quote from: wince on June 30, 2020, 07:30:06 PM
It’s the depressing merrygoround names we end up wanting. Dyche yes, has no money and done ok at Burnley. Yet he would spunk his wad at having money to spend, like Bruce did and still serve up the depressing style of football that would see us one year in the top half of the table and another circling with the turds at the bottom. People want fat Sam, another dinosaur that only works short term for many clubs. Moyes was bandied about a few years ago, again dire turgid football. Smith may come good, probably not yet but we need proven coaching staff who aren’t stuck in the past couples with players of a quality to work to a game plan and a game plan that doesn’t consist of hoofing the ball up the field and hoping someone gets it or inviting our star player to get mauled so we can win a free kick (then usually spoon the kick).

Absolutely spot on post. Not sure it will go down too well on this thread though!
why not?
Makes sense.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on June 30, 2020, 07:43:16 PM
People are getting desperate again. Dyche? Not courted for any big job and he's had Burnley playing dull aggressive football. Plus he hasn't been close to winning. The only thing he has in his favour is the experience of the Premier League. If we go down he ain't the man the bring us back up.

I thought people wanted to progress?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: rougegorge on June 30, 2020, 07:46:00 PM
Quote from: N'ZMAV on June 30, 2020, 06:12:26 PM
Smith was the right appointment at the time. Same as MON was, similar to BFR and Brian Little.
Things just don't work out sometimes...
In hindsight, Smith turned out to be a good choice to get us up, but at the time of the appointment he wasn't an obvious choice; other than Brentford played some good football some of the time (notably against us) and he was a Villa fan.

His credentials and results, whilst very respectable for the clubs concerned, weren't screaming out and weren't particularly progressive :
Walsall League 1
2012 - 19th
2013 - 9th
2014 - 13th
2015 - 14th
2015-16 started season well
Brentford Championship
2016 - 9th
2017- 10th
2018 - 9th

Overall, it would seem thus far, he's had just the one outstanding season as a manager.

Even so, I was hoping for something better this season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on June 30, 2020, 09:13:29 PM
Quote from: Drummond on June 30, 2020, 07:43:16 PM
People are getting desperate again. Dyche? Not courted for any big job and he's had Burnley playing dull aggressive football. Plus he hasn't been close to winning. The only thing he has in his favour is the experience of the Premier League. If we go down he ain't the man the bring us back up.

I thought people wanted to progress?

Well he took Burnley down, got them up and playing in Europe, yeah what a disaster, imagine that rubbish at Villa only the Europa League (or whatever its called) pish and nonsense, unless its a manager that has a won the European Cup we should run them out of Aston. Look as a manager to improve us, from where we are, and finish a boring midtable for a period of time to then allow us to be an attraction to a better manager, what is the problem? If Sean Dyche made us harder to beat and took us another step forward I am all for it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on June 30, 2020, 09:32:32 PM
I can honestly say that post Ron Saunders and Tony Barton, we have wanted every single manager out at some point.  Including SGT and MON. We are never happy.  Dyche is a proven manager at a small club with a smaller budget than most. He might be a boring bloke with a dry personality, but he has done very well at Burnley and would be a decent manager for Villa at this current time.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: wince on June 30, 2020, 09:33:56 PM
Steve Bruce made us harder to beat but there was no progression. What I’m getting at is we make pedestrian decisions and smith, for all what he has done has never really had us playing convincingly all of the time. As a club we seem to make the same mistakes over and over. Like in lamberts time we go out and play hell bent for leather for 10-15 mins then chase the game. Dyche would have us stable I’m sure but so would others. It’s clear smith isn’t going anywhere yet anyway but watching manure play tonight, they will rip us a new one. Our only hope is palace and Everton and hopefully West Ham. Win all three might see us home.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on June 30, 2020, 09:40:48 PM
When Dyche took Burnley down what was the fans’ reaction? Presumably if he stayed then most fans were still with him.

Personally, my issues with smith are not our likely relegation but the manner of it. Getting repeatedly outthought by other managers, The tactical naivety early in the season which has ultimately cost us, being so inflexible in approach, failing to get the most out of players and - it appears - not being able to lead the players and keep them with him.

These aren’t small things when it comes to assessing whether he’s a good manager or not.

We haven’t been plucky and ended up down there through bad luck. We outspent a lot of other teams and we’ve been mostly shit all season, played shit toothless football and we’ve got worse as the season’s gone on.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on June 30, 2020, 09:48:06 PM
Dyche is definitely better than what we currently have but I'm sure there are better managers than Dyche who we might consider.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on June 30, 2020, 09:58:31 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on June 30, 2020, 09:48:06 PM
Dyche is definitely better than what we currently have but I'm sure there are better managers than Dyche who we might consider.

Yes probably correct.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The_ads on June 30, 2020, 09:59:38 PM
Genuinely astonished as to why people would scoff at Dyche. It’s not always about champagne football, it’s about getting results to stay in the league with the big boys. How we can possibly not want a manager that has got a club as unfashionable as Burnley on the same number of points as Spurs,  when we are in fucking 19th fucking place and barely have a shot at goal let alone going somewhere like Palace and winning. His teams work their bollocks off and they are hard to beat, the complete antithesis of us. We’re powder puff, easy to play against, predictable, lazy, and fucking boring and we’ve got people turning their nose up at a manager like that. Get real.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on June 30, 2020, 10:11:35 PM
Quote from: The_ads on June 30, 2020, 09:59:38 PM
Genuinely astonished as to why people would scoff at Dyche. It’s not always about champagne football, it’s about getting results to stay in the league with the big boys. How we can possibly not want a manager that has got a club as unfashionable as Burnley on the same number of points as Spurs,  when we are in fucking 19th fucking place and barely have a shot at goal let alone going somewhere like Palace and winning. His teams work their bollocks off and they are hard to beat, the complete antithesis of us. We’re powder puff, easy to play against, predictable, lazy, and fucking boring and we’ve got people turning their nose up at a manager like that. Get real.

Maybe part of the reason why Dyche is doing so well at Burnley is that they didn't sack him when they were relegated. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on June 30, 2020, 10:14:55 PM
Would you stick or twist?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on June 30, 2020, 10:19:51 PM
Quote from: Legion on June 30, 2020, 10:14:55 PM
Would you stick or twist?

I said last week - go down fighting and I'd keep him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on June 30, 2020, 10:22:03 PM
Quote from: Legion on June 30, 2020, 10:14:55 PM
Would you stick or twist?
Twist.  I just think the club needs a change of approach, a different way of looking at things.  I know I bang on about this a lot but what we haven't tried in years is making a concerted effort to get a pedigree manager in, whatever it takes.  If that doesn't work, then we start looking for something in between, which is where the likes of Dyche come in.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Des Little on June 30, 2020, 10:22:24 PM
Personally, I’d rather see a revamped scouting and recruitment set up launched than a change in manager.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on June 30, 2020, 10:31:22 PM
Leaving it late to show the fight we must go down with.  My suspicion is that we will get the relegation but not the fight.  I would like to see a clever manager.  British managers virtually all come across as the kid who was good at football at school and never had to do any homework.  Blokes who say "should of".
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on June 30, 2020, 10:34:05 PM
We're not exactly fighting against it all that well.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on June 30, 2020, 10:36:26 PM
I also agree with Des.  I would take a manager who in defeat goes home to his penthouse and revives his flagging spirit by playing a Chopin prelude on his baby grand piano.  While a whole team of scouts and coaches scours the known world for good young players.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on June 30, 2020, 10:38:55 PM
We have some good, young players. Archer and Ramsey for example. They are just not being used and Smith is persevering with what is not currently working.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Des Little on June 30, 2020, 10:41:10 PM
And here it comes! https://twitter.com/jpercytelegraph/status/1278078787628998656?s=21
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 30, 2020, 10:44:42 PM
Quote from: Des Little on June 30, 2020, 10:41:10 PM
And here it comes! https://twitter.com/jpercytelegraph/status/1278078787628998656?s=21
Good, I would love to know the outcome.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on June 30, 2020, 10:45:19 PM
Quote from: Des Little on June 30, 2020, 10:41:10 PM
And here it comes! https://twitter.com/jpercytelegraph/status/1278078787628998656?s=21
What a great time to send the message to the squad 'we should never have bought some of you'.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on June 30, 2020, 10:48:02 PM
Oh dear.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: 260475 on June 30, 2020, 10:49:14 PM
Getting too late now, when there have been 12 weeks or so when detailed analysis focus and ideas could have changed (whether the personnel did or not) and we could have come back with a different style. Hasn't happened as far as I can see (and if it was done doesn't show), so unless the position is rescued in 6(?) games there is one hell of an expensive lesson to have been taken. So if he stays to the end of the season (because of a view there is not enough time for anyone else to effect a change), then I would be pushing to make a change anyway at the end of the season whether we survive or drop. That should be the structural approach that another poster suggested higher up - i.e. more than just the manager.

I want to see us stay up like most others, but the appetite to spend more (on more of the same) would test even billionaires.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on June 30, 2020, 10:51:35 PM
Compare and contrast: https://twitter.com/JPercyTelegraph/status/1159855536625672192
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: RamboandBruno on June 30, 2020, 10:57:43 PM
Quote from: rougegorge on June 30, 2020, 07:46:00 PM
Quote from: N'ZMAV on June 30, 2020, 06:12:26 PM
Smith was the right appointment at the time. Same as MON was, similar to BFR and Brian Little.
Things just don't work out sometimes...
In hindsight, Smith turned out to be a good choice to get us up, but at the time of the appointment he wasn't an obvious choice; other than Brentford played some good football some of the time (notably against us) and he was a Villa fan.

His credentials and results, whilst very respectable for the clubs concerned, weren't screaming out and weren't particularly progressive :
Walsall League 1
2012 - 19th
2013 - 9th
2014 - 13th
2015 - 14th
2015-16 started season well
Brentford Championship
2016 - 9th
2017- 10th
2018 - 9th

Overall, it would seem thus far, he's had just the one outstanding season as a manager.

Even so, I was hoping for something better this season.

Being totally pedantic here and no bearing on the smith in or out debate, but didn’t he get Walsall to the play offs one season? I’m sure they lost to Barnsley in the league one semis, same year they got to a cup final and lost.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The_ads on June 30, 2020, 10:59:26 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on June 30, 2020, 10:11:35 PM
Quote from: The_ads on June 30, 2020, 09:59:38 PM
Genuinely astonished as to why people would scoff at Dyche. It’s not always about champagne football, it’s about getting results to stay in the league with the big boys. How we can possibly not want a manager that has got a club as unfashionable as Burnley on the same number of points as Spurs,  when we are in fucking 19th fucking place and barely have a shot at goal let alone going somewhere like Palace and winning. His teams work their bollocks off and they are hard to beat, the complete antithesis of us. We’re powder puff, easy to play against, predictable, lazy, and fucking boring and we’ve got people turning their nose up at a manager like that. Get real.

Maybe part of the reason why Dyche is doing so well at Burnley is that they didn't sack him when they were relegated.


Fair point Dave but if we are to keep him we absolutely have to get the recruitment right because we’ve fucked this up for about 40 consecutive transfer windows. Also, If Suso was Purslows man then he should go too.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 30, 2020, 11:02:41 PM
If you're managing Burnley you can get away with being relegated and keep your job (well, then, you probably wouldn't now). Not at a club of our size. It would be ridiculous to stand by him in those circumstances.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on June 30, 2020, 11:06:12 PM
I think the bottom line is that no-one has done their job effectively this season, with the exception of three or four players.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Des Little on June 30, 2020, 11:07:45 PM
Interesting point there re: Purslow/Suso - be interesting to see how that pans out
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on June 30, 2020, 11:08:25 PM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on June 30, 2020, 11:02:41 PM
If you're managing Burnley you can get away with being relegated and keep your job (well, then, you probably wouldn't now). Not at a club of our size. It would be ridiculous to stand by him in those circumstances.

What makes us so important?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on June 30, 2020, 11:08:50 PM
Quote from: RamboandBruno on June 30, 2020, 10:57:43 PM
Quote from: rougegorge on June 30, 2020, 07:46:00 PM
Quote from: N'ZMAV on June 30, 2020, 06:12:26 PM
Smith was the right appointment at the time. Same as MON was, similar to BFR and Brian Little.
Things just don't work out sometimes...
In hindsight, Smith turned out to be a good choice to get us up, but at the time of the appointment he wasn't an obvious choice; other than Brentford played some good football some of the time (notably against us) and he was a Villa fan.

His credentials and results, whilst very respectable for the clubs concerned, weren't screaming out and weren't particularly progressive :
Walsall League 1
2012 - 19th
2013 - 9th
2014 - 13th
2015 - 14th
2015-16 started season well
Brentford Championship
2016 - 9th
2017- 10th
2018 - 9th

Overall, it would seem thus far, he's had just the one outstanding season as a manager.

Even so, I was hoping for something better this season.

Being totally pedantic here and no bearing on the smith in or out debate, but didn’t he get Walsall to the play offs one season? I’m sure they lost to Barnsley in the league one semis, same year they got to a cup final and lost.

It was a cup game. I went. They were shit. Got thrashed 4-0 I think.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The_ads on June 30, 2020, 11:09:27 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on June 30, 2020, 11:08:25 PM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on June 30, 2020, 11:02:41 PM
If you're managing Burnley you can get away with being relegated and keep your job (well, then, you probably wouldn't now). Not at a club of our size. It would be ridiculous to stand by him in those circumstances.

What makes us so important?


An awful lot of things as you well know
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on June 30, 2020, 11:12:00 PM
Quote from: The_ads on June 30, 2020, 11:09:27 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on June 30, 2020, 11:08:25 PM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on June 30, 2020, 11:02:41 PM
If you're managing Burnley you can get away with being relegated and keep your job (well, then, you probably wouldn't now). Not at a club of our size. It would be ridiculous to stand by him in those circumstances.

What makes us so important?


An awful lot of things as you well know

And how many of them are relevant right this minute? This is the sort of thing we slaughter other clubs' supporters for saying.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on June 30, 2020, 11:22:07 PM
And why we sometimes rightly get ridiculed for.  We’ve been absolutely shocking for 10 years.  All driven by one short term decision or another.  I’ve no idea what is the best option these days.  Nothing seems to work for very long.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on June 30, 2020, 11:23:20 PM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on June 30, 2020, 11:22:07 PM
And why we sometimes rightly get ridiculed for.  We’ve been absolutely shocking for 10 years.  All driven by one short term decision or another.  I’ve no idea what is the best option these days.  Nothing seems to work for very long.

That's the absolute crux - short-term. The only time we've ever thought long-term this century was under Houlier, and he was getting dog's abuse for it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on June 30, 2020, 11:24:06 PM
Agreed. I liked him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on June 30, 2020, 11:25:21 PM
I liked what he was trying to do.  It’s amazing how much the players are never accountable.  Fancy him asking Dunne and Collins to look after themselves and be more professional.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 30, 2020, 11:28:02 PM
Houllier was shite, he took a team that wasn't too far away from winning two cups and finishing in the top four, minus one player, and had them stinking out the bottom half of the league all season.

Sacking a manager that fails miserably, as Smith will have done this season if he gets us relegated, and appointing a manager who can have success with us long term aren't mutually exclusive options.

I'd be very tempted to get rid of Smith even if we stay up, as the performances have totally failed to match the level of investment. Sticking by him if we go down would be the sort of nonsense teams like Barnsley or Small Heath, happy just to have had a season playing at big grounds, would do.

If we want to get back to the sort of level where we want to be, we have to aspire to have the best manager we can get. A man that couldn't even finish in the top seventeen would, demonstrably, not be that man.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on June 30, 2020, 11:28:49 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on June 30, 2020, 11:23:20 PM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on June 30, 2020, 11:22:07 PM
And why we sometimes rightly get ridiculed for.  We’ve been absolutely shocking for 10 years.  All driven by one short term decision or another.  I’ve no idea what is the best option these days.  Nothing seems to work for very long.

That's the absolute crux - short-term. The only time we've ever thought long-term this century was under Houlier, and he was getting dog's abuse for it.
It didn't work though.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on June 30, 2020, 11:35:25 PM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on June 30, 2020, 11:28:02 PM
Houllier was shite, he took a team that wasn't too far away from winning two cups and finishing in the top four, minus one player, and had them stinking out the bottom half of the league all season.


My point entirely.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 30, 2020, 11:38:02 PM
I'm still gutted we let Billy McNeill slip through our fingers. We should have offered him a ten year extended deal the second relegation was confirmed.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on June 30, 2020, 11:39:20 PM
He was trying to change MO’N’s anti football style with a more modern one and he was trying to do it with MO’N’s players.  Towards the end of that season we were starting to play some very good stuff as he started to bring his own signings in.  But then he had a coronary.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KevinGage on June 30, 2020, 11:40:31 PM
Houllier wasn't thinking long term at all.  Not about us anyway. Maybe his pension pot.

He was in no rush to take the job in the first instance, had little interest in the youth or academy players and gave the air of pure O'Leary smug mode reminiscing about his old club pretty much from the outset.  Every day in the job he was doing us a favour. At least O'Leary gave us that promising first year.

Darren Bent was signed at his peak for a club record fee and the players Houllier had lined up in the summer were   closer to the age group O'Neill was tapping up. The money he burned through for pretty average players at Liverpool should give some indication what he was about. He was blessed with two natural talents in Gerrard and Owen coming through at roughly the same time and Carragher and Fowler as good as anything in the country to offset the El Haddj Diouf/ Cisse and other shite deals. He didn't have that luxury with us, so I don't see how it could have worked based purely on his own deals.

He had Gabby, James Collins and Dicky Dunne's number pretty early on, so I'd credit him for that and little else.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on June 30, 2020, 11:41:03 PM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on June 30, 2020, 11:39:20 PM
He was trying to change MO’N’s anti football style with a more modern one and he was trying to do it with MO’N’s players.  Towards the end of that season we were starting to play some very good stuff as he started to bring his own signings in.  But then he had a coronary.

From (possibly impaired) memory, we only started playing once McAllister took over, didn't we?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 30, 2020, 11:42:45 PM
I can't really be arsed to debate Houllier again, it's nearly as tedious as the MON Wars. But we couldn't have kept him on even if we wanted to, he hasn't been healthy for long enough to manager anywhere else since. So it's not really worth falling out over.

(He was merde, though).
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KevinGage on June 30, 2020, 11:43:01 PM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on June 30, 2020, 11:39:20 PM
He was trying to change MO’N’s anti football style with a more modern one and he was trying to do it with MO’N’s players.  Towards the end of that season we were starting to play some very good stuff as he started to bring his own signings in.  But then he had a coronary.

As I recall it, we started playing well when he was away from the side.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on June 30, 2020, 11:43:39 PM
All we needed was Titi Camara to complete the rebuild.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on June 30, 2020, 11:44:24 PM
Don't forget about Benni.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on June 30, 2020, 11:45:13 PM
Anyone remember Carlton Palmer being linked with us?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on June 30, 2020, 11:46:59 PM
Quote from: KevinGage on June 30, 2020, 11:40:31 PM
Houllier wasn't thinking long term at all.  Not about us anyway. Maybe his pension pot.

He was in no rush to take the job in the first instance, had little interest in the youth or academy players and gave the air of pure O'Leary smug mode reminiscing about his old club pretty much from the outset.  Every day in the job he was doing us a favour. At least O'Leary gave us that promising first year.

Darren Bent was signed at his peak for a club record fee and the players Houllier had lined up in the summer were   closer to the age group O'Neill was tapping up. The money he burned through for pretty average players at Liverpool should give some indication what he was about. He was blessed with two natural talents in Gerrard and Owen coming through at roughly the same time and Carragher and Fowler as good as anything in the country to offset the El Haddj Diouf/ Cisse and other shite deals.

He had Gabby, James Collins and Dicky Dunne's number pretty early on, so I'd credit him for that and little else.

The players he signed in January were Darren Bent (25), Michael Bradley (23), Jean Makoun (26) plus the 18 year old French lad whose name escapes me who failed the medical. He took the job as soon as he was able and gave plenty of opportunities to youth players. From January onwards, once the injury list had cleared up our form was top six. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on June 30, 2020, 11:48:24 PM
He hadn't managed a club for 3 years, hadn't managed in England for 6, and had a history of heart trouble.  It was never going to work.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 01, 2020, 12:09:18 AM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on June 30, 2020, 11:39:20 PM
He was trying to change MO’N’s anti football style with a more modern one and he was trying to do it with MO’N’s players.  Towards the end of that season we were starting to play some very good stuff as he started to bring his own signings in.  But then he had a coronary.

Even that was a missed chance though. Houllier was in his mid 60s, hadn't managed in premier league for six years (indeed any club for 3 given he left Lyon in June 2007) and was basically in semi retirement at French FA as post above says. He couldn't even come in straight away as we had to keep McDonald in charge for the Stoke and Bolton games after the September international break.

I could understand the clubs thinking but couldn't we just have got in a younger and healthier coach (given GH sadly had more health trouble in that run in) to execute the plan? There must've been a Pochettino type available at the time.

That time indicated to me Lerner wasn't as good an owner as he was cracked up to be. Seemed the initial plan was to give Kevin McDonald the job but the Newcastle 6-0 sent everyone into a mass panic when it was just a really bad day at the office. We beat Everton 1-0 a week later.

Easy to say now of course but we should've just bided our time for a few more weeks and widened our search into europe for manager prepared to leave club or wait until a few sackings took place around October. Houllier only won 1 of his first six games so not like we'd have lost any ground with that approach.

Think the next managerial appointment whenever it is is a really big one for me regarding these owners. Will it be same old safe choice or will we go for a bold appointment whichever division we're in given other championship clubs have got in europa league/champions league standard managers over last 5 years.

We actually did it with Di Matteo but of course that was the one that didn't work out!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 01, 2020, 12:14:38 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on June 30, 2020, 11:46:59 PM
Quote from: KevinGage on June 30, 2020, 11:40:31 PM
Houllier wasn't thinking long term at all.  Not about us anyway. Maybe his pension pot.

He was in no rush to take the job in the first instance, had little interest in the youth or academy players and gave the air of pure O'Leary smug mode reminiscing about his old club pretty much from the outset.  Every day in the job he was doing us a favour. At least O'Leary gave us that promising first year.

Darren Bent was signed at his peak for a club record fee and the players Houllier had lined up in the summer were   closer to the age group O'Neill was tapping up. The money he burned through for pretty average players at Liverpool should give some indication what he was about. He was blessed with two natural talents in Gerrard and Owen coming through at roughly the same time and Carragher and Fowler as good as anything in the country to offset the El Haddj Diouf/ Cisse and other shite deals.

He had Gabby, James Collins and Dicky Dunne's number pretty early on, so I'd credit him for that and little else.

The players he signed in January were Darren Bent (25), Michael Bradley (23), Jean Makoun (26) plus the 18 year old French lad whose name escapes me who failed the medical. He took the job as soon as he was able and gave plenty of opportunities to youth players. From January onwards, once the injury list had cleared up our form was top six. 

Bradley hardly played after signing. Went on to have a good career in Italy. Makoun was hit and miss and struggled with pace of the league but could see the talent was there, bit of a Douglas Luiz although his career fizzled out after leaving.

Probably still shows the short term thinking around back. Reo Coker and Petrov was still the regular midfield combination. Unless NRC basically lied to us about signing a new deal, playing him every week and then seeing him leave on a free wasn't the smartest move.

I get we were in a relegation battle but unlike this team you always felt the quality of attacking players in final third would win us games when it really mattered and so it proved in the last two months.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 01, 2020, 12:26:29 AM
I watched some highlights of games we played earlier in the season against some top teams. While we didn’t win any of those games our ambition from the start, our tactical approach for 90% of the time was just great. What the fuck happened to the team that played Spurs, Arsenal, Man U away or Liverpool at home? We really had a go. And when you watch the surrender vs Wolves or the embarrassment vs Chelsea. What has happened to that Dean Smith? When did his flame go out?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: rougegorge on July 01, 2020, 12:32:19 AM
Quote from: Legion on June 30, 2020, 11:08:50 PM
Quote from: RamboandBruno on June 30, 2020, 10:57:43 PM
Quote from: rougegorge on June 30, 2020, 07:46:00 PM
Quote from: N'ZMAV on June 30, 2020, 06:12:26 PM
Smith was the right appointment at the time. Same as MON was, similar to BFR and Brian Little.
Things just don't work out sometimes...
In hindsight, Smith turned out to be a good choice to get us up, but at the time of the appointment he wasn't an obvious choice; other than Brentford played some good football some of the time (notably against us) and he was a Villa fan.

His credentials and results, whilst very respectable for the clubs concerned, weren't screaming out and weren't particularly progressive :
Walsall League 1
2012 - 19th
2013 - 9th
2014 - 13th
2015 - 14th
2015-16 started season well
Brentford Championship
2016 - 9th
2017- 10th
2018 - 9th

Overall, it would seem thus far, he's had just the one outstanding season as a manager.

Even so, I was hoping for something better this season.

Being totally pedantic here and no bearing on the smith in or out debate, but didn’t he get Walsall to the play offs one season? I’m sure they lost to Barnsley in the league one semis, same year they got to a cup final and lost.

It was a cup game. I went. They were shit. Got thrashed 4-0 I think.
Yes, Walsall lost the 2014-15 FL Trophy final  to Bristol City (2-0 I think), but they reached the playoffs the season after, but Smith had left before Christmas.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Stinkin_Thinkin on July 01, 2020, 12:33:55 AM
The way I understood, as part of a long term strategy to ensure stability, the new management structure (DOF/head coach instead of manager) was brought in to enable the club to hire and fire quickly and easily without an O'Neill style hangover. Much was written about this southampton/Brentford model when we appointed Dean Smith. I've very suprised with the results he's still in charge. Althought, my statto friend tells me our xG stat has improved since the restart.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: RamboandBruno on July 01, 2020, 06:38:34 AM
Quote from: KevinGage on June 30, 2020, 11:40:31 PM
Houllier wasn't thinking long term at all.  Not about us anyway. Maybe his pension pot.

He was in no rush to take the job in the first instance, had little interest in the youth or academy players and gave the air of pure O'Leary smug mode reminiscing about his old club pretty much from the outset.  Every day in the job he was doing us a favour. At least O'Leary gave us that promising first year.

Darren Bent was signed at his peak for a club record fee and the players Houllier had lined up in the summer were   closer to the age group O'Neill was tapping up. The money he burned through for pretty average players at Liverpool should give some indication what he was about. He was blessed with two natural talents in Gerrard and Owen coming through at roughly the same time and Carragher and Fowler as good as anything in the country to offset the El Haddj Diouf/ Cisse and other shite deals. He didn't have that luxury with us, so I don't see how it could have worked based purely on his own deals.

He had Gabby, James Collins and Dicky Dunne's number pretty early on, so I'd credit him for that and little else.

I suppose you shouldn't judge a manager's career with us on a couple of incidents and Houllier definitely has a touch of class and football acumen in managerial terms, that McLeish, Sherwood, Garde never had. But two things still grate me a bit, FA Cup QF replay at Man City, they were not the man city of now and to play a weakened team at that stage of the competition stunk. And obviously whimsically touching the never walk alone sign with a nostalgic look in his eye before kick off against that lot. I know there's a bigger picture but like an earlier poster said, it always felt to me like we were beneath him.
And despite the MON years eventually going sour and him walking out like that, those first few years gave me a pride back in my club that I hadn't had in a while and apart from the last few months of last season (Thanks Smith and co) haven't had since.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on July 01, 2020, 08:39:22 AM
So they are going to have an investigation into the recruitment? Does this mean how we recruited, or the method of identification and scouting?  Or is this more a case of, did Suso buy the Right/wrong players or has Smith failed to get the best out of them? A game of blame tennis. 

Purslow presided over all of it but can't blame himself I guess.  Are we honestly to believe that Smith had absolutely nothing to do with any of our signings?  Seems a strange way to run a club with players foisted upon the Head Coach and told, here, I bought you a present, get on with coaching him!  To be fair, whoever decided Danny Drinkwater and Pepe Reina were useful additions to the squad simply needs to tender their resignation.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 01, 2020, 08:53:01 AM
As this will have been called for by Purslow “It says Recruitment and Scouting strategy”so that’s aimed squarely at Suso. This is Purslow building his arse covering ammunition.
Obviously it will put Smith under the light to the extent of his actual involvement.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on July 01, 2020, 08:57:39 AM
Would we be better off with;

Webster over Engels?
Philips over Nkamba?
Maupy over Wesley?
Benrhama over Tezuguet?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on July 01, 2020, 08:58:39 AM
yes
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on July 01, 2020, 09:03:36 AM
Quote from: Ads on July 01, 2020, 08:57:39 AM
Would we be better off with;

Webster over Engels?
Philips over Nkamba?
Maupy over Wesley?
Benrhama over Tezuguet?


I guess the obvious answer is yes, but then again, it also brings into question whether Dean Smith has coached them well enough?  Engels and Nakamba seem to have got steadily worse but was Trezeguet ever good enough.  Personally, I think we overpaid for Wesley but he isn't as bad as some make out.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 01, 2020, 09:10:31 AM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on June 30, 2020, 09:48:06 PM
Dyche is definitely better than what we currently have but I'm sure there are better managers than Dyche who we might consider.

....before giving the job to somebody worse than Smith.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 01, 2020, 09:21:27 AM
Quote from: Newby on July 01, 2020, 09:03:36 AM
Quote from: Ads on July 01, 2020, 08:57:39 AM
Would we be better off with;

Webster over Engels?
Philips over Nkamba?
Maupy over Wesley?
Benrhama over Tezuguet?


I guess the obvious answer is yes, but then again, it also brings into question whether Dean Smith has coached them well enough?  Engels and Nakamba seem to have got steadily worse but was Trezeguet ever good enough.  Personally, I think we overpaid for Wesley but he isn't as bad as some make out.

Whether the criticism of Wesley is fair or not, I think it's fair to say that his natural game (no pace, hopeless in the air) doesn't seem particularly well suited to the Premier League.

Expecting a 22 year old Brazilian from the Belgian league to come in and be our main and pretty much only striker was utter madness and a real dereliction of duty.  The fact that he was backed up by Keinan Davis who makes Emile Heskey look prolific just makes it even worse.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 01, 2020, 09:26:50 AM
Dyche and the game away, Smith sprang 5 2 3 on him and the camera kept panning over to him looking like a rabbit in the headlights. He did react at halftime but then it was too late.
He is a conventional English manager but does not strike me as a top 6 Type manager and if we hire him we will know we are not a top 6 type club.
On balance I would keep Smith if the alternative is just more upheaval for the sake of it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on July 01, 2020, 09:51:48 AM
Quote from: Risso on July 01, 2020, 09:21:27 AM
Quote from: Newby on July 01, 2020, 09:03:36 AM
Quote from: Ads on July 01, 2020, 08:57:39 AM
Would we be better off with;

Webster over Engels?
Philips over Nkamba?
Maupy over Wesley?
Benrhama over Tezuguet?


I guess the obvious answer is yes, but then again, it also brings into question whether Dean Smith has coached them well enough?  Engels and Nakamba seem to have got steadily worse but was Trezeguet ever good enough.  Personally, I think we overpaid for Wesley but he isn't as bad as some make out.

Whether the criticism of Wesley is fair or not, I think it's fair to say that his natural game (no pace, hopeless in the air) doesn't seem particularly well suited to the Premier League.

Expecting a 22 year old Brazilian from the Belgian league to come in and be our main and pretty much only striker was utter madness and a real dereliction of duty.  The fact that he was backed up by Keinan Davis who makes Emile Heskey look prolific just makes it even worse.
This is the biggest critisism.  I mentioned listening to a scouting podcast at the time we were signing him that basically said he wasn't suitable for all the reasons that turned out to be true.  If those guys knew that, why didn't we? 

And to answer ADS point - absolutely I think we'd have been safe with those alternative signings.  Yes they would have cost more but we coud have kept some squad players from last year and spent our money on fewer better signings.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on July 01, 2020, 09:59:12 AM
The concencus on here at the time was that buying him was a risk, only buying him seemed negligent.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: David_Nab on July 01, 2020, 10:25:52 AM
Quote from: Newby on July 01, 2020, 09:03:36 AM
Quote from: Ads on July 01, 2020, 08:57:39 AM
Would we be better off with;

Webster over Engels?
Philips over Nkamba?
Maupy over Wesley?
Benrhama over Tezuguet?


I guess the obvious answer is yes, but then again, it also brings into question whether Dean Smith has coached them well enough?  Engels and Nakamba seem to have got steadily worse but was Trezeguet ever good enough.  Personally, I think we overpaid for Wesley but he isn't as bad as some make out.

Engels certainly started off well and in the early games he and Mings looked pretty decent together ,not sure if its coaching / niggly injuries or loss of confidence which effected him but he has gone off the boil.

Trez had some bright spots at times as well but as gone backwards. Not every transfer works out as we have seen for years so if you bring in as many as we did some just won't work out but elevate the risk of failure buy buying so many players untested not only in this league but higher level overseas leagues.

What needs to be taken into account as well is wages we went to the cheaper leagues as the wage demands were lower for those players and we were working within FFP.Also I saw our payments to agents was one of the lowest in the league.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ASHTONVILLA on July 01, 2020, 10:42:10 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on June 30, 2020, 10:11:35 PM
Quote from: The_ads on June 30, 2020, 09:59:38 PM
Genuinely astonished as to why people would scoff at Dyche. It’s not always about champagne football, it’s about getting results to stay in the league with the big boys. How we can possibly not want a manager that has got a club as unfashionable as Burnley on the same number of points as Spurs,  when we are in fucking 19th fucking place and barely have a shot at goal let alone going somewhere like Palace and winning. His teams work their bollocks off and they are hard to beat, the complete antithesis of us. We’re powder puff, easy to play against, predictable, lazy, and fucking boring and we’ve got people turning their nose up at a manager like that. Get real.

Maybe part of the reason why Dyche is doing so well at Burnley is that they didn't sack him when they were relegated. 

And that they sacked someone else to appoint him in the first place. If you took that logic no club would sack anyone no mater how bad.

Dyche did well despite them going down, Smith has been dreadful all season. Indeed he was dreadful for large chunks of last season and had a good late run that looks more and more like a fluke by the day. He will not get us promoted again, we saw how he has us playing without Grealish in the Championship last season- terribly! Imagine how bad without Grealish, Mings, and McGinn plus Wesley instead of Abrahams. Be lucky if we didn't do a Sunderland with Smith managing that team.

Time to roll the dice.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 01, 2020, 10:47:32 AM
I'm willing to give Engels a pass as it has been suggested he had a falling out with Dean and never got much of a look in after that.  He did look pretty good early season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on July 01, 2020, 10:57:07 AM
He just looks found out to me, with the turning circle of a tanker and a lack of pace. Forget Webster, we'd have been better off signing Dawson from the Albion for half the price and some considerable experience.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 01, 2020, 10:57:34 AM
Quote from: ASHTONVILLA on July 01, 2020, 10:42:10 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on June 30, 2020, 10:11:35 PM
Quote from: The_ads on June 30, 2020, 09:59:38 PM
Genuinely astonished as to why people would scoff at Dyche. It’s not always about champagne football, it’s about getting results to stay in the league with the big boys. How we can possibly not want a manager that has got a club as unfashionable as Burnley on the same number of points as Spurs,  when we are in fucking 19th fucking place and barely have a shot at goal let alone going somewhere like Palace and winning. His teams work their bollocks off and they are hard to beat, the complete antithesis of us. We’re powder puff, easy to play against, predictable, lazy, and fucking boring and we’ve got people turning their nose up at a manager like that. Get real.

Maybe part of the reason why Dyche is doing so well at Burnley is that they didn't sack him when they were relegated. 

And that they sacked someone else to appoint him in the first place. If you took that logic no club would sack anyone no mater how bad.

Dyche did well despite them going down, Smith has been dreadful all season. Indeed he was dreadful for large chunks of last season and had a good late run that looks more and more like a fluke by the day. He will not get us promoted again, we saw how he has us playing without Grealish in the Championship last season- terribly! Imagine how bad without Grealish, Mings, and McGinn plus Wesley instead of Abrahams. Be lucky if we didn't do a Sunderland with Smith managing that team.

Time to roll the dice.

Another manager took his team down but he'd done well, or at least he's done well since. Ours should be sacked because he's going to relegate us twice. Your hindsight is spot on but I'm not sure about your seeing into the future.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 01, 2020, 11:03:28 AM
I think appointing Dyche would be another instance of us appointing someone with no experience of what's he's being asked to do, i.e. make a big club successful.  I'm all for giving guys a chance to prove themselves but do we have to keep doing it?  Why not try to go for someone who has got some experience of making a big club successful?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: richtheholtender on July 01, 2020, 11:12:42 AM
Quote from: Ads on July 01, 2020, 08:57:39 AM
Would we be better off with;

Webster over Engels?
Philips over Nkamba?
Maupy over Wesley?
Benrhama over Tezuguet?



I get your point and agree with it to a degree. However, I don’t think we would be having the points raised on here if we were 4/5 places higher up the league. We will never know but I think there is a good chance we would be in that position if we had gone that extra mile and brought in Samatta (or another) In the summer. I think relying on Wesley up front for every minute for the first half of the Season and then Samatta for every minute since January has played a massive part of our downfall. Not only to rest them or drop them but the additional tactical options having another striker could have made would only have been positive. In typical Aston Villa fashion they did so much so fall short at the final hurdle.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 01, 2020, 11:26:10 AM
Abraham in this team and we'd be at least where Brighton are, and probably with more points.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ASHTONVILLA on July 01, 2020, 11:42:22 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 01, 2020, 10:57:34 AM
Another manager took his team down but he'd done well, or at least he's done well since. Ours should be sacked because he's going to relegate us twice. Your hindsight is spot on but I'm not sure about your seeing into the future.


He did well with a limited resource and at the time got a lot of praise for how well he did despite going down. I can see why they kept him. It all very much depends on what resource a relegated club had, and how well the manager did. If Huddersfield had got relegated first season up it would have been harsh on Wagner had they fired him as they played OK beyond expectations. in the end they just about stayed up.

Smith has not done well, we are not going down as plucky losers we are playing very poor football and have underachieved given the money spent. He also was poor last season when Grealish was out hence my comment that I can't see him doing well if we go down. He had a purple patch where everything clicked, as did Sherwood for a while. Been found wanting and can't see it improving. Obviously would love to be proven wrong though! I was happy with smith when we appointed him but it hasn't worked out. When things aren't working you need to change, not wait longer. We made that mistake with Lambert who also played good football with a smaller team before coming in and playing defensive anti-football with 'young and hungry' moneyball players. I wouldn't want Smith even if we manage to stay up, he just has not done well enough. Ditto Suso.

Not that Dyche would be my first choice as a replacement, but he definitely has a better track record. Would rather see us go for someone that has done well in similar circumstances with a bigger team like Benitez, though can't see that happening given his history with Purslow.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KevinGage on July 01, 2020, 11:47:59 AM
Sacking Dyche for Burnleh going down in 2015 would be the equivalent of us offing O'Neill for not making the knockout stages of the Champions League - had we ever qualified.

They were doing well to go up in the first place and didn't disgrace themselves in the top flight, even on Championship wages and budget back then.

Promotion then gave a small club with little debt the chance to invest and come back stronger when they did drop.

As comparisons go it's up there with apples and orangutans.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 01, 2020, 12:04:31 PM
Quote from: ASHTONVILLA on July 01, 2020, 11:42:22 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 01, 2020, 10:57:34 AM
Another manager took his team down but he'd done well, or at least he's done well since. Ours should be sacked because he's going to relegate us twice. Your hindsight is spot on but I'm not sure about your seeing into the future.


He did well with a limited resource and at the time got a lot of praise for how well he did despite going down. I can see why they kept him. It all very much depends on what resource a relegated club had, and how well the manager did. If Huddersfield had got relegated first season up it would have been harsh on Wagner had they fired him as they played OK beyond expectations. in the end they just about stayed up.

Smith has not done well, we are not going down as plucky losers we are playing very poor football and have underachieved given the money spent. He also was poor last season when Grealish was out hence my comment that I can't see him doing well if we go down. He had a purple patch where everything clicked, as did Sherwood for a while. Been found wanting and can't see it improving. Obviously would love to be proven wrong though! I was happy with smith when we appointed him but it hasn't worked out. When things aren't working you need to change, not wait longer. We made that mistake with Lambert who also played good football with a smaller team before coming in and playing defensive anti-football with 'young and hungry' moneyball players. I wouldn't want Smith even if we manage to stay up, he just has not done well enough. Ditto Suso.

Not that Dyche would be my first choice as a replacement, but he definitely has a better track record. Would rather see us go for someone that has done well in similar circumstances with a bigger team like Benitez, though can't see that happening given his history with Purslow.



The money we spent last summer has been done to death - when the final whistle blew at Wembley we had at best three, maybe four players signed to us who were good enough for the Premier League. We had to sign practically an entire new squad while still keeping within FFP. In those circumstances I still fail to see how one manager is a plucky loser deserving of another chance while another isn't good enough, never has been and all his success was down to someone else.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on July 01, 2020, 12:08:16 PM
Quote from: Stinkin_Thinkin on July 01, 2020, 12:33:55 AM
The way I understood, as part of a long term strategy to ensure stability, the new management structure (DOF/head coach instead of manager) was brought in to enable the club to hire and fire quickly and easily without an O'Neill style hangover. Much was written about this southampton/Brentford model when we appointed Dean Smith. I've very suprised with the results he's still in charge. Althought, my statto friend tells me our xG stat has improved since the restart.
That approach assumes that the right DoF is in charge. Suso definitely ain't the man.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on July 01, 2020, 12:12:31 PM
I think when Dean gets the inevitable boot, he'll have a lot of regrets that his teams have rarely played the sort of football for which he was appointed. Its the choice of wide players recruited that puzzle me, so out of kilter with what we saw in his Brentford days.

Whenever I hear him speak I nearly always think, 'yes he knows what he wants to do' but we so rarely see on the field the game he's thought out in his head.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The_ads on July 01, 2020, 12:16:14 PM
Quote from: LeeB on July 01, 2020, 10:57:07 AM
He just looks found out to me, with the turning circle of a tanker and a lack of pace. Forget Webster, we'd have been better off signing Dawson from the Albion for half the price and some considerable experience.


And this in a nutshell is why the transfer policy has been a shit storm. All talk of planning ‘meticulously’ has resulted, in the main, in a load of unproven, average dross. Had our planning been some promise (Konsa, Wesley) along with some proven premier league players (Dawson, Rodriguez) and we’d have held our own because the bottom half of the premier league is really fucking average. Even now we aren’t adrift and we really should be
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on July 01, 2020, 12:17:11 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on July 01, 2020, 11:03:28 AM
I think appointing Dyche would be another instance of us appointing someone with no experience of what's he's being asked to do, i.e. make a big club successful.  I'm all for giving guys a chance to prove themselves but do we have to keep doing it?  Why not try to go for someone who has got some experience of making a big club successful?
This is really the killer point: we've spent loads of dosh (because we had to) but we put our faith in a manager with limited experience of the job expected of him.
Since the manager / head coach is one of the most important employees the club has, why leave the job in the hands of a relative novice*?


* I use this word to describe Smith because he has not - in his experience - done what this club has asked him to do this season. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 01, 2020, 12:26:03 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 01, 2020, 11:26:10 AM
Abraham in this team and we'd be at least where Brighton are, and probably with more points.

Which wasn't ever going to be possible given Chelsea's situation.  So that being the case, attempting to replace somebody like Tammy with Wesley was ridiculous.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on July 01, 2020, 12:33:13 PM
Quote from: Risso on July 01, 2020, 12:26:03 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 01, 2020, 11:26:10 AM
Abraham in this team and we'd be at least where Brighton are, and probably with more points.

Which wasn't ever going to be possible given Chelsea's situation.  So that being the case, attempting to replace somebody like Tammy with Wesley was ridiculous.

What was the answer though? The Georides and Wet Spam both spunked twice what we did, and I'd argue we got the better player of the three.

Basically, we had a lot of jam but too many slices of toast.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 01, 2020, 12:37:29 PM
I'm really not that bothered that other teams spent as badly as we did on a striker.  Despite that at least Newcastle have stayed out of trouble, and did sign that Saint-Maximin who looks like everything our useless wingers aren't.  Personally I'd have gone for Maupay.  Preferably as well as Wesley, but if the money wasn't available then instead of.  He's scored some very important goals for Brighton this year, quite a few of which have been match winners.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on July 01, 2020, 12:52:16 PM
Quote from: Risso on July 01, 2020, 12:37:29 PM
I'm really not that bothered that other teams spent as badly as we did on a striker.  Despite that at least Newcastle have stayed out of trouble, and did sign that Saint-Maximin who looks like everything our useless wingers aren't.  Personally I'd have gone for Maupay.  Preferably as well as Wesley, but if the money wasn't available then instead of.  He's scored some very important goals for Brighton this year, quite a few of which have been match winners.
I think we'd have beem much better off with Maupay too, but to put some perspective on it 8 goals for them is hardly prolific, considering Wesley scored 5 for us.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on July 01, 2020, 12:53:28 PM
Quote from: Risso on July 01, 2020, 10:45:41 AM
I know not all trasnfers work out, but this year I'd argue that hardly any at all have:

Heaton - yes, obviously missing second half of season not his fault.
Jota - no.  Couldn't get into a crap Blues team, and obvious why.  Slow and physically weak.
Wesley - no, reasons above.
Trezeguet - no, an even more rubbish and less effective Andre Green
Nakamba - no.  Rubbish, can't play football.
Luiz - just about, our best player of late.
Mings - no, huge, huge disappointment, mistakes all over the shop.
Samatta - no.  Very average indeed.
Baston - no, pointless non-signing
Drinkwater - no, just about the worst loan singing we've ever made.  Woeful.
Engels - no.  Started off OK, has nose-dived since.
Reina - no, way past his best, lacks fitness and that run out to midfield against Leicester, fuck me.
Konsa - jury out, looks promising but no way the finished article.

So it's not Dean Smith's fault then. How could any manager expect to keep a team up with a squad as bereft of talent and attitude as you suggest?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 01, 2020, 12:58:22 PM
Quote from: Drummond on July 01, 2020, 12:53:28 PM
Quote from: Risso on July 01, 2020, 10:45:41 AM
I know not all trasnfers work out, but this year I'd argue that hardly any at all have:

Heaton - yes, obviously missing second half of season not his fault.
Jota - no.  Couldn't get into a crap Blues team, and obvious why.  Slow and physically weak.
Wesley - no, reasons above.
Trezeguet - no, an even more rubbish and less effective Andre Green
Nakamba - no.  Rubbish, can't play football.
Luiz - just about, our best player of late.
Mings - no, huge, huge disappointment, mistakes all over the shop.
Samatta - no.  Very average indeed.
Baston - no, pointless non-signing
Drinkwater - no, just about the worst loan singing we've ever made.  Woeful.
Engels - no.  Started off OK, has nose-dived since.
Reina - no, way past his best, lacks fitness and that run out to midfield against Leicester, fuck me.
Konsa - jury out, looks promising but no way the finished article.

So it's not Dean Smith's fault then. How could any manager expect to keep a team up with a squad as bereft of talent and attitude as you suggest?

Well I'm assuming he had a hand in buying them. And there really can't be any denying that the coaching has been terrible as well.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Axl Rose on July 01, 2020, 01:15:46 PM
Your descriptions are spot on for me, Risso.

Mings has been a massive disappointment. Thinks he's better than he actually is.

Nakamba might just be my least favourite of the lot. Shocking player. £11 would have looked like a rip off.

Jota seems to spend all his time making that ridiculous 'shaka' hand sign whilst sitting in the club gym wearing training kit.

Nearly all signings mentioned above move at snail pace, also.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on July 01, 2020, 01:19:14 PM
Not considering loans was a massive mistake as well.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on July 01, 2020, 01:21:13 PM
if Smith is working with a bereft of quality squad

How come if we go down prem teams are reportedly all over half of our squad to purchase at multi millions of ££
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT on July 01, 2020, 01:24:31 PM
Quote from: Axl Rose on July 01, 2020, 01:15:46 PM
Your descriptions are spot on for me, Risso.

Mings has been a massive disappointment. Thinks he's better than he actually is.

Nakamba might just be my least favourite of the lot. Shocking player. £11 would have looked like a rip off.

Jota seems to spend all his time making that ridiculous 'shaka' hand sign whilst sitting in the club gym wearing training kit.

Nearly all signings mentioned above move at snail pace, also.

I was beginning to think I was in a minority of one regarding Tyrone. I feared the worst once he pulled on an England jersey and for me, his performances have dipped ever since. He looks like he’s going through the motions, doing just enough to get through each game.

He’s gone from being an absolute rock and leader at the back, to someone who’s head is clearly elsewhere.

For Dean, he would have wanted that spine of Heaton, Mings, McGinn and Grealish to lead the rest, and for various reasons, none of them have done any such thing. Part of the reason we look so slow and predictable is that we have no driving force out there and no one to demand more of others. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 01, 2020, 01:25:49 PM
Quote from: john e on July 01, 2020, 01:21:13 PM
if Smith is working with a bereft of quality squad

How come if we go down prem teams are reportedly all over half of our squad to purchase at multi millions of ££

Yes there is that, and in Jack Grealish we have one of the most talented players in the league.  The way he's been used, and the way his form has suffered has been sad to see.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on July 01, 2020, 01:34:05 PM
Quote from: aj2k77 on July 01, 2020, 01:19:14 PM
Not considering loans was a massive mistake as well.
Absolutely.  Just because we may have over used it in the past and left ourselves short doesn't mean it's not a very valuable tool when used correctly.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Axl Rose on July 01, 2020, 01:35:19 PM
Quote from: CT on July 01, 2020, 01:24:31 PM
Quote from: Axl Rose on July 01, 2020, 01:15:46 PM
Your descriptions are spot on for me, Risso.

Mings has been a massive disappointment. Thinks he's better than he actually is.

Nakamba might just be my least favourite of the lot. Shocking player. £11 would have looked like a rip off.

Jota seems to spend all his time making that ridiculous 'shaka' hand sign whilst sitting in the club gym wearing training kit.

Nearly all signings mentioned above move at snail pace, also.

I was beginning to think I was in a minority of one regarding Tyrone. I feared the worst once he pulled on an England jersey and for me, his performances have dipped ever since. He looks like he’s going through the motions, doing just enough to get through each game.

He’s gone from being an absolute rock and leader at the back, to someone who’s head is clearly elsewhere.

For Dean, he would have wanted that spine of Heaton, Mings, McGinn and Grealish to lead the rest, and for various reasons, none of them have done any such thing. Part of the reason we look so slow and predictable is that we have no driving force out there and no one to demand more of others. 

I agree mate. It's been a largely dreadful season. There have been some decent performances, but they've been overshadowed by inept tactics and in some cases, unfit players. If we do go down, I can't say I'd miss any of them.

Hope you're well anyway mate!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 01, 2020, 01:37:01 PM
I think that harsh on Tyrone.  Yes, he's not been near his best this season but I think it's too simple to blame playing for England.  For one thing, most of our players haven't been great this season and I think that's partly quality but also because, I believe, they lost faith in Dean a long time ago.  Morale has been low for a long time too.  I'm not excusing his poor form but I really don't think it has anything to do with England or having his head turned.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KevinGage on July 01, 2020, 01:40:05 PM
Mings' form this season reminds me a bit of Mellberg having to babysit Ridgewell in 05.  That brainwave of a pairing turned a previously solid centre half into a liability for a period of time.

An experienced/ competent centre half alongside Mings would have cured many of our ills this season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on July 01, 2020, 01:41:34 PM
Quote from: john e on July 01, 2020, 01:21:13 PM
if Smith is working with a bereft of quality squad

How come if we go down prem teams are reportedly all over half of our squad to purchase at multi millions of ££
Jack and Mings isn't half our squad.

We've played half a season without Heaton & McGinn, our only other major assets.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on July 01, 2020, 03:48:15 PM
Quote from: john e on July 01, 2020, 01:21:13 PM
if Smith is working with a bereft of quality squad

How come if we go down prem teams are reportedly all over half of our squad to purchase at multi millions of ££

Complete papertalk, let's see what happens.  That said, if they taken them, they will be doing us a favour, bar Mings and Jack.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on July 01, 2020, 03:53:05 PM
Quote from: Newby on July 01, 2020, 03:48:15 PM
Quote from: john e on July 01, 2020, 01:21:13 PM
if Smith is working with a bereft of quality squad

How come if we go down prem teams are reportedly all over half of our squad to purchase at multi millions of ££

Complete papertalk, let's see what happens.  That said, if they taken them, they will be doing us a favour, bar Mings and Jack.

You forgot McGinn.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on July 01, 2020, 04:58:36 PM
I am a big fan of Tyrone but he has been called to put his cock on the block at atime when other huge non football wheels are turning.  Right up to the point when he had to call out racism in the middle of an England game his head has been all over the place.  He will be back.  It is totally unfair that football and football players should have to be the lightning rods of a sick society.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on July 01, 2020, 05:33:12 PM
I don’t think our squad is any weaker than other teams in the bottom half of the league in fact it’s better than most imo

and most if not all don’t have a 50-80 mill rated midfielder to call on

it’s about managing and coaching imo
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 01, 2020, 05:37:58 PM
John you could argue it was the same when we went down last time. Many of the players who were bought that summer have gone on to prove themselves very good, if not excellent players having very good careers. It’s was just utter chaos around them. We don’t have the chaos now but once again we are not getting the best out of these players. And I very much include Jack in that who is is shunted out on the left wing. I would put my money on him not being a left winger at Man City it Man United if he moves to one of those clubs.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 01, 2020, 05:42:57 PM
Some of our players aren't good enough but I refuse to believe Dean is getting the absolute maximum out of them.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 01, 2020, 05:53:03 PM
The thing is we don’t truly know who specifically actually isn’t good enough.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Simon Page on July 01, 2020, 06:12:06 PM
I still think the biggest problem has been a lack of Premier League experience in the team. It means we have difficulty closing games out or reacting to opponents who are - obviously - the best in the country. Add in costly errors and a real problem properly carving open top level defences and it's all uphill from there. If you look down the middle of the side, there's precious little top-end experience.

That's not to say all the other things - coaching, ability, tactics, changes - aren't massive factors. I just wish we'd got a few more solid top flight players instead of some of the "promising" category. That way we wouldn't be so reliant on most of the team having to get up to speed quickly and consistently while trying to compete at the very highest level of the game.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT Villan on July 01, 2020, 06:46:19 PM
Quote from: Simon Page on July 01, 2020, 06:12:06 PM
I still think the biggest problem has been a lack of Premier League experience in the team.

Agree...it's at all levels of the club :

Dean & ROK learning how to manage in the PL
Terry learning how to coach (let alone in the PL)
Most players learning how to play in PL
Suso learning how to recruit for the PL
Owners learning how to 'own' a PL club - granted Edens has some pro-sport ownership experience

Perhaps the only exception is Purslow, but that's a massive amount of inexperience with the others and no great surprise we are struggling.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on July 01, 2020, 06:46:49 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on July 01, 2020, 05:53:03 PM
The thing is we don’t truly know who specifically actually isn’t good enough.

Nyland, Konsa, Hause, Taylor, Hourahane, Elmo, Lansbury, are all not prem standard
(I might be wrong but apart from Lansbury I think every one of them took part in our last game, which is why we have a big problem)

But that still leaves a good number who I think are good enough, I'm comparing to other teams and squads in the bottom half of the table not the De Bruyns and Van Dijks of this world

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Big Ming on July 01, 2020, 07:01:02 PM
Quote from: john e on July 01, 2020, 06:46:49 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on July 01, 2020, 05:53:03 PM
The thing is we don’t truly know who specifically actually isn’t good enough.

Nyland, Konsa, Hause, Taylor, Hourahane, Elmo, Lansbury, are all not prem standard
(I might be wrong but apart from Lansbury I think every one of them took part in our last game, which is why we have a big problem)

But that still leaves a good number who I think are good enough, I'm comparing to other teams and squads in the bottom half of the table not the De Bruyns and Van Dijks of this world
Neither winger is good enough IMHO.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on July 01, 2020, 07:23:02 PM
Quote from: Big Ming on July 01, 2020, 07:01:02 PM
Quote from: john e on July 01, 2020, 06:46:49 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on July 01, 2020, 05:53:03 PM
The thing is we don’t truly know who specifically actually isn’t good enough.

Nyland, Konsa, Hause, Taylor, Hourahane, Elmo, Lansbury, are all not prem standard
(I might be wrong but apart from Lansbury I think every one of them took part in our last game, which is why we have a big problem)

But that still leaves a good number who I think are good enough, I'm comparing to other teams and squads in the bottom half of the table not the De Bruyns and Van Dijks of this world
Neither winger is good enough IMHO.

ha ha yeah I forgot about them
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SamTheMouse on July 01, 2020, 07:25:59 PM
I still think we're fine down the middle of the pitch, the massive problem we have is that all the wide players - including the full backs - are not good enough to play in this league.

All of them.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: WarszaVillan on July 01, 2020, 07:26:18 PM
Quote from: john e on July 01, 2020, 07:23:02 PM
Quote from: Big Ming on July 01, 2020, 07:01:02 PM
Quote from: john e on July 01, 2020, 06:46:49 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on July 01, 2020, 05:53:03 PM
The thing is we don’t truly know who specifically actually isn’t good enough.

Nyland, Konsa, Hause, Taylor, Hourahane, Elmo, Lansbury, are all not prem standard
(I might be wrong but apart from Lansbury I think every one of them took part in our last game, which is why we have a big problem)

But that still leaves a good number who I think are good enough, I'm comparing to other teams and squads in the bottom half of the table not the De Bruyns and Van Dijks of this world
Neither winger is good enough IMHO.

ha ha yeah I forgot about them

I think Hause and Konsa could be squad players in a mid-table Prem team. Hause has done pretty well since the break IMO
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 01, 2020, 07:36:19 PM
If he fails to keep us up he’ll have done a poor job and should go.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: RamboandBruno on July 01, 2020, 08:09:50 PM
to suggest a 10 game winning run last year, the best in the clubs history, was a fluke is just the most bizarre re-writing of history. I watched probably 7 of those 10 games home and away and whilst not always being on top of our game, we were never lucky or Flucky, sometimes we had to dig in, hold on and take our chances (Sheffield and Rotherham away), but that’s the sign of a good and dare I say it well coached team.
Of course we got better when our most talented player came back, that would of been the same for any team at any level, but the idea grealish did it on his own just isn’t true. He wasn’t our best player in quite a few of those games and I would argue apart from a 10 minute spell in 1st leg against WBA, didn’t really turn up in play off semis or final.
Some people have made their minds up about smith months ago, maybe even early on in the season and that’s fine and their prerogative. Since lockdown I’ve been feeling a bit non plused about the whole thing. But the re-writing of history to suit the agenda of getting rid is I think unfair.
It’s been hard to watch this season, but I can remember at least 3 seasons since I’ve been going down VP, where we’ve escaped relegation by 1 place in the league and non of them were easy to watch. As has been mentioned countless times, if Smith keeps us up after the dismantling of the promotion winning squad and the partially inadequate purchases (I think some of them do have potential if we escape, Konsa, Hause, Luiz, possibly Wes, Guilbert, possibly Targett) it will be a huge achievement.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on July 01, 2020, 08:41:23 PM
Quote from: WarszaVillan82 on July 01, 2020, 07:26:18 PM
Quote from: john e on July 01, 2020, 07:23:02 PM
Quote from: Big Ming on July 01, 2020, 07:01:02 PM
Quote from: john e on July 01, 2020, 06:46:49 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on July 01, 2020, 05:53:03 PM
The thing is we don’t truly know who specifically actually isn’t good enough.

Nyland, Konsa, Hause, Taylor, Hourahane, Elmo, Lansbury, are all not prem standard
(I might be wrong but apart from Lansbury I think every one of them took part in our last game, which is why we have a big problem)

But that still leaves a good number who I think are good enough, I'm comparing to other teams and squads in the bottom half of the table not the De Bruyns and Van Dijks of this world
Neither winger is good enough IMHO.

ha ha yeah I forgot about them

I think Hause and Konsa could be squad players in a mid-table Prem team. Hause has done pretty well since the break IMO

I don’t think they, especially Hause are good enough even for the Championship
they just aren’t good enough on the ball, lacking basic footballing ability unfortunately
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 01, 2020, 10:12:40 PM
Dean - West Ham showed how your results against top 6 sides can define your season. Think on that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The_ads on July 01, 2020, 10:46:22 PM
Not just that, West Ham had something about them tonight. We would concede that penalty and collapse and lose the game 3-0. We have no battling qualities at all, no nouse to shut down a top 6 teams major threats and certainly in no way savvy enough to go and win a game like that 3-2. We deserve to go down because we’ve been fucking garbage since the turn of the year and even worse since the restart.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 01, 2020, 10:48:52 PM
Quote from: The_ads on July 01, 2020, 10:46:22 PM
Not just that, West Ham had something about them tonight. We would concede that penalty and collapse and lose the game 3-0. We have no battling qualities at all, no nouse to shut down a top 6 teams major threats and certainly in no way savvy enough to go and win a game like that 3-2. We deserve to go down because we’ve been fucking garbage since the turn of the year and even worse since the restart.

There is plenty to criticise Smith for, but a game played between West Ham and Chelsea isn't one of them.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The_ads on July 01, 2020, 10:52:58 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on July 01, 2020, 10:48:52 PM
Quote from: The_ads on July 01, 2020, 10:46:22 PM
Not just that, West Ham had something about them tonight. We would concede that penalty and collapse and lose the game 3-0. We have no battling qualities at all, no nouse to shut down a top 6 teams major threats and certainly in no way savvy enough to go and win a game like that 3-2. We deserve to go down because we’ve been fucking garbage since the turn of the year and even worse since the restart.

There is plenty to criticise Smith for, but a game played between West Ham and Chelsea isn't one of them.

I’m making the comparison that we were powder puff against Chelsea at home, outplayed for the majority of game and never looked like getting back into game once behind. West Ham on other hand.....
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 01, 2020, 11:00:47 PM
Quote from: The_ads on July 01, 2020, 10:46:22 PM
Not just that, West Ham had something about them tonight. We would concede that penalty and collapse and lose the game 3-0. We have no battling qualities at all, no nouse to shut down a top 6 teams major threats and certainly in no way savvy enough to go and win a game like that 3-2. We deserve to go down because we’ve been fucking garbage since the turn of the year and even worse since the restart.

Based on what? We've not conceded any penalties, we've not conceded 3. We're the only team in the bottom 5 to have kept a clean sheet, the only team in the bottom 5 to have taken points in two games, and we have the best 'restart' goal difference of the bottom 5. West Ham scored 3 today, and theirs is still -3.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 01, 2020, 11:03:24 PM
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on July 01, 2020, 11:00:47 PM
Quote from: The_ads on July 01, 2020, 10:46:22 PM
Not just that, West Ham had something about them tonight. We would concede that penalty and collapse and lose the game 3-0. We have no battling qualities at all, no nouse to shut down a top 6 teams major threats and certainly in no way savvy enough to go and win a game like that 3-2. We deserve to go down because we’ve been fucking garbage since the turn of the year and even worse since the restart.

Based on what? We've not conceded any penalties, we've not conceded 3. We're the only team in the bottom 5 to have kept a clean sheet, the only team in the bottom 5 to have taken points in two games, and we have the best 'restart' goal difference of the bottom 5. West Ham scored 3 today, and theirs is still -3.
Can’t believe we are in the relegation zone.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 01, 2020, 11:08:02 PM
I know where we are, but I'm of the opinion that so far we've been the least shit of the bottom 5 overall, and we've not looked like utterly capitulating in any of our last 4.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mcgrath_85 on July 01, 2020, 11:12:17 PM
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on July 01, 2020, 11:08:02 PM
I know where we are, but I'm of the opinion that so far we've been the least shit of the bottom 5 overall, and we've not looked like utterly capitulating in any of our last 4.

You’re on a different planet mate.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on July 01, 2020, 11:16:44 PM
I’d say having just beatenChelsea, a top six side who absolutely schooled us, West Ham look the least shit of the bottom 5 so far.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Des Little on July 01, 2020, 11:17:06 PM
You only have to look at how we played against Chelsea to West Ham tonight to get an idea how equipped we are for the fight. We need to show the same levels of commitment otherwise there is no chance of getting the points we need.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 01, 2020, 11:27:34 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on July 01, 2020, 11:16:44 PM
I’d say having just beatenChelsea, a top six side who absolutely schooled us, West Ham look the least shit of the bottom 5 so far.

By that reckoning, taking into account performances against Newcastle, we're much better than Bournemouth.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 01, 2020, 11:29:57 PM
That was the worst I've seen Chelsea play since they had Doug Rougvie in their side.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on July 01, 2020, 11:33:16 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 01, 2020, 11:27:34 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on July 01, 2020, 11:16:44 PM
I’d say having just beatenChelsea, a top six side who absolutely schooled us, West Ham look the least shit of the bottom 5 so far.

By that reckoning, taking into account performances against Newcastle, we're much better than Bournemouth.

The Dog and Duck are better than Bournemouth!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 01, 2020, 11:35:12 PM
If The Dog and Duck were hovering just above Villa in the table, Chelsea would lose to them.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The_ads on July 01, 2020, 11:53:23 PM
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on July 01, 2020, 11:00:47 PM
Quote from: The_ads on July 01, 2020, 10:46:22 PM
Not just that, West Ham had something about them tonight. We would concede that penalty and collapse and lose the game 3-0. We have no battling qualities at all, no nouse to shut down a top 6 teams major threats and certainly in no way savvy enough to go and win a game like that 3-2. We deserve to go down because we’ve been fucking garbage since the turn of the year and even worse since the restart.

Based on what? We've not conceded any penalties, we've not conceded 3. We're the only team in the bottom 5 to have kept a clean sheet, the only team in the bottom 5 to have taken points in two games, and we have the best 'restart' goal difference of the bottom 5. West Ham scored 3 today, and theirs is still -3.

Based on no wins in 4 since restart. Based on one win in 11. Based on two goals since restart both scored by defenders. Based on our capitulation against any team with a bit of a plan. Based on the fact we’re 19th. Based on.....I could go on but can’t be arsed
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on July 01, 2020, 11:56:21 PM
I only saw the second half but apart from the first ten minutes, Chelsea dominated just like they did against us. West Ham were penned in for long periods. It did take direct set pieces for Chelsea to score but they were doing all the footballing, with West Ham reliant on the big man up front.

The winner was excellent target man play but shocking defending from Alonso and Rudiger. I don't know why defenders get a free pass for staying on the pitch and not being substituted when playing poorly. Rudiger struggled against Antonio all night but Lampard's tinkering was only from an attacking point of view.

If Jota scores his shot at the end of our game against Chelsea we would have been praising our team's resilience. Doesn't alter the fact that Chelsea were by far the better team, just as they were the better side tonight but a shit bit of defending and, in fairness an astute substitution from Moyes, made the difference.

Dean should be showing that winner to Davis and El Ghazi, that's how you play when you're on the counter attack.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on July 02, 2020, 12:33:51 AM
Haven’t us and wet spam now picked up the most number of points out of the bottom five since the restart?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 02, 2020, 12:55:38 AM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on July 02, 2020, 12:33:51 AM
Haven’t us and wet spam now picked up the most number of points out of the bottom five since the restart?
Don't think so.  We've only got 2 and they got 3 just from tonight.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 02, 2020, 12:59:15 AM
Watford have two, same as us. Nul points so far for Bournemouth and Norwich since the restart.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 02, 2020, 02:44:33 AM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on July 02, 2020, 12:59:15 AM
Watford have two, same as us. Nul points so far for Bournemouth and Norwich since the restart.

Watford have 1.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Gareth on July 02, 2020, 07:34:20 AM
Quote from: Ads on July 01, 2020, 08:57:39 AM
Would we be better off with;

Webster over Engels?
Philips over Nkamba?
Maupy over Wesley?
Benrhama over Tezuguet?

Would we better off, probably on the pitch with most of them yes, could we afford those 4 with FFP??

Engels started well & we all thought he was going to prove a bargain whilst Webster was a bit iffy, he has improved massively whilst Engels seems to have disappeared off the face of the earth-Webster cost twice as much as Engels

Phillips like Nakamba had never played at this level, think we all think he will be better but 30m+ was surely out of our price range?

Maupay over Wesley is a very interesting one, Wesley had 6 goals by Christmas and was just looking as though he had adjusted, Maupay has 9 in the whole season - personally would have backed Wesley to be in double figures by now if he had been fit - Maupay is a nuisance, has a bit of pace and has that horrible streak that we lack - jury out on which is better for me

Benrahma over Trezeguet, again would have cost double so FFP issues but also the most obvious upgrade-Benrahma looks a player whereas Trezeguet is league one at best, hopefully will be out of VP whatever league we are in next season.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: RamboandBruno on July 02, 2020, 07:36:58 AM
Quote from: eamonn on July 01, 2020, 11:56:21 PM
I only saw the second half but apart from the first ten minutes, Chelsea dominated just like they did against us. West Ham were penned in for long periods. It did take direct set pieces for Chelsea to score but they were doing all the footballing, with West Ham reliant on the big man up front.

The winner was excellent target man play but shocking defending from Alonso and Rudiger. I don't know why defenders get a free pass for staying on the pitch and not being substituted when playing poorly. Rudiger struggled against Antonio all night but Lampard's tinkering was only from an attacking point of view.

If Jota scores his shot at the end of our game against Chelsea we would have been praising our team's resilience. Doesn't alter the fact that Chelsea were by far the better team, just as they were the better side tonight but a shit bit of defending and, in fairness an astute substitution from Moyes, made the difference.

Dean should be showing that winner to Davis and El Ghazi, that's how you play when you're on the counter attack.

Spot on post. The most frustrating thing about the Chelsea defeat was despite their total dominance, in the 2 or 3 times we did attack them, their defence looked wobbly.
West Ham have the first win of the bottom 5 since lockdown, let’s see if they can build momentum, Id suggest if they lose to Newcastle on Saturday, they build no momentum and are still hand wringing like us Watford and Bournemouth. Apart from West Ham, on Saturday we got Liverpool away, Bournemouth Man Utd away, Watford Chelsea away. If there is one unlikely win amongst that lot, that’s the team who’ll have the belief and I’d bet on staying up
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OzVilla on July 02, 2020, 07:37:41 AM
A top class wide player/winger with pace would've made all the difference this season. We are 100% Championship standard at best in that department.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on July 02, 2020, 08:27:47 AM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on July 02, 2020, 12:55:38 AM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on July 02, 2020, 12:33:51 AM
Haven’t us and wet spam now picked up the most number of points out of the bottom five since the restart?
Don't think so.  We've only got 2 and they got 3 just from tonight.

Yeh that’s what I meant.  Until last night we had the most now it’s spam then us.  I reckon 34 might be enough at this rate.  So that’s palace and arsenal wins and a draw away at spam easy.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on July 02, 2020, 08:50:39 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 01, 2020, 11:27:34 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on July 01, 2020, 11:16:44 PM
I’d say having just beatenChelsea, a top six side who absolutely schooled us, West Ham look the least shit of the bottom 5 so far.

By that reckoning, taking into account performances against Newcastle, we're much better than Bournemouth.
I think we do look better than Bournemouth.  I'm not sure how this is relevant to my comment?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 02, 2020, 09:41:32 AM
Quote from: Gareth on July 02, 2020, 07:34:20 AM
Quote from: Ads on July 01, 2020, 08:57:39 AM
Would we be better off with;

Webster over Engels?
Philips over Nkamba?
Maupy over Wesley?
Benrhama over Tezuguet?

Would we better off, probably on the pitch with most of them yes, could we afford those 4 with FFP??

Engels started well & we all thought he was going to prove a bargain whilst Webster was a bit iffy, he has improved massively whilst Engels seems to have disappeared off the face of the earth-Webster cost twice as much as Engels

Phillips like Nakamba had never played at this level, think we all think he will be better but 30m+ was surely out of our price range?

Maupay over Wesley is a very interesting one, Wesley had 6 goals by Christmas and was just looking as though he had adjusted, Maupay has 9 in the whole season - personally would have backed Wesley to be in double figures by now if he had been fit - Maupay is a nuisance, has a bit of pace and has that horrible streak that we lack - jury out on which is better for me

Benrahma over Trezeguet, again would have cost double so FFP issues but also the most obvious upgrade-Benrahma looks a player whereas Trezeguet is league one at best, hopefully will be out of VP whatever league we are in next season.



If FFP was the barrier to those, then how come we agreed to pay the wages of a waster like Drinkwater, and took on Reina as well in January?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on July 02, 2020, 09:44:04 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 01, 2020, 11:27:34 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on July 01, 2020, 11:16:44 PM
I’d say having just beatenChelsea, a top six side who absolutely schooled us, West Ham look the least shit of the bottom 5 so far.

By that reckoning, taking into account performances against Newcastle, we're much better than Bournemouth.

And Watford the best team in the country after their defeat of Liverpool.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on July 02, 2020, 09:49:32 AM
It's one win for a team in the bottom 5 since the restart, let's not give up yet.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 02, 2020, 09:52:48 AM
Surely the most pertinent fact for us is no wins in 8 games, and two games coming up where we're going to get smashed into next week.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on July 02, 2020, 10:02:06 AM
The thing is we know we have it in us.  There was also periods when we look like scoring as well as pressing well. It's been very far and few between since November, a glimpse of this against Leicester in the cup and away at Burnley. Clutching at straws I know.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on July 02, 2020, 10:06:34 AM
Quote from: Ian J on July 02, 2020, 10:02:06 AM
The thing is we know we have it in us.  There was also periods when we look like scoring as well as pressing well. It's been very far and few between since November, a glimpse of this against Leicester in the cup and away at Burnley. Clutching at straws I know.
You're clutching at straws, mate.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 02, 2020, 10:17:06 AM
Quote from: Risso on July 02, 2020, 09:52:48 AM
Surely the most pertinent fact for us is no wins in 8 games, and two games coming up where we're going to get smashed into next week.

Like West Ham were going to be last night.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: wince on July 02, 2020, 10:31:31 AM
Goal difference looking better than it was. Need Watford dragged into this and at least a draw against Liverpool and manure. Tough given manure are still chasing chumps league. Not saying we can do it but it’s now up to smith to hammer into the squad. Going back to Burnley, anyone think they are where they are because their team on paper is one made up of squad players? What I mean is does our team has individuals who when the going gets tough just want to fuck off to their next club? Just an idea, a thought and a grasping of those straws.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 02, 2020, 10:46:21 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 02, 2020, 10:17:06 AM
Quote from: Risso on July 02, 2020, 09:52:48 AM
Surely the most pertinent fact for us is no wins in 8 games, and two games coming up where we're going to get smashed into next week.

Like West Ham were going to be last night.

I wasn't at all surprised that they beat Chelsea to be honest.  If we concede fewer than 6 goals in total in the the next two games and manage at least a solitary point, tea and beers in the Bartons are on me at a home game of your choosing next season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aev on July 02, 2020, 10:53:24 AM
Quote from: Risso on July 02, 2020, 10:46:21 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 02, 2020, 10:17:06 AM
Quote from: Risso on July 02, 2020, 09:52:48 AM
Surely the most pertinent fact for us is no wins in 8 games, and two games coming up where we're going to get smashed into next week.

Like West Ham were going to be last night.

I wasn't at all surprised that they beat Chelsea to be honest.  If we concede fewer than 6 goals in total in the the next two games and manage at least a solitary point, tea and beers in the Bartons are on me at a home game of your choosing next season.

Clouds and silver linings.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ASHTONVILLA on July 02, 2020, 10:54:35 AM
Quote from: chrisw1 on July 02, 2020, 08:50:39 AM
I think we do look better than Bournemouth.  I'm not sure how this is relevant to my comment?

I agree we look better than Bournemouth, which makes it all the more frustrating that they took 6 points off us this season. Win even one of those games and we would not be where we are.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 02, 2020, 11:43:39 AM
Quote from: Risso on July 02, 2020, 09:41:32 AM
Quote from: Gareth on July 02, 2020, 07:34:20 AM
Quote from: Ads on July 01, 2020, 08:57:39 AM
Would we be better off with;

Webster over Engels?
Philips over Nkamba?
Maupy over Wesley?
Benrhama over Tezuguet?

Would we better off, probably on the pitch with most of them yes, could we afford those 4 with FFP??

Engels started well & we all thought he was going to prove a bargain whilst Webster was a bit iffy, he has improved massively whilst Engels seems to have disappeared off the face of the earth-Webster cost twice as much as Engels

Phillips like Nakamba had never played at this level, think we all think he will be better but 30m+ was surely out of our price range?

Maupay over Wesley is a very interesting one, Wesley had 6 goals by Christmas and was just looking as though he had adjusted, Maupay has 9 in the whole season - personally would have backed Wesley to be in double figures by now if he had been fit - Maupay is a nuisance, has a bit of pace and has that horrible streak that we lack - jury out on which is better for me

Benrahma over Trezeguet, again would have cost double so FFP issues but also the most obvious upgrade-Benrahma looks a player whereas Trezeguet is league one at best, hopefully will be out of VP whatever league we are in next season.



If FFP was the barrier to those, then how come we agreed to pay the wages of a waster like Drinkwater, and took on Reina as well in January?

Presumably we would've had to pay wages for Maupay and Benrahma.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 02, 2020, 12:18:15 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on July 02, 2020, 11:43:39 AM

Presumably we would've had to pay wages for Maupay and Benrahma.

That's my point.  I bet 'Drinky' and Reina are on miles more than those two would have been.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sid1964 on July 02, 2020, 12:23:36 PM
if they decide to get rid of Smith after this season, whichever division we are in, they will have to get a move on as there is only going to be about 6-7 weeks between this season ending and the new season starting.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Footy-Vill on July 02, 2020, 01:09:37 PM
Quote from: Ads on July 01, 2020, 08:57:39 AM
Would we be better off with;

Webster over Engels?
Philips over Nkamba?
Maupy over Wesley?
Benrhama over Tezuguet?

We would be better off with any of these who did move

Gk
Henderson loan

Defenders
Cahill free
Pontus Jansson 5.5m
Baines or Rose loan instead of Targett

Midfield
1st choice would have been Romain Sawyers around 3m. He would control the tempo and play and pass the ball in midfield

Wanyama as solid defensive midfielder 
Even Arron Mooy 5m

Attackers
Saint-Maximin 16.5m or Bowen 22m
Knockaert on loan
Pereira loan from sporting Lisbon to WBA he's too good for them and the league
Maupay or Ings 20m

Even Jordan Ayew 3m or
Jay Rodriguez 10m
would have been worth a take as an attacking player proven in Prem and at no more than 10mil

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Footy-Vill on July 02, 2020, 01:15:45 PM
Heaton/Henderson
Konsa
Cahill/Jansson
Mings
Baines/Rose
Sawyers
Douglas Luiz
McGinn
Grealish
Bowen
Maupay

That's a proper Dean Smith side
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on July 02, 2020, 01:21:41 PM
We'd have as much chance of signing David De Gea on a permanent deal for £100m as we would of getting Dean Henderson on loan.

It'll be Sheffield United for him again next season, and if he keeps up decent form he'll be at least a back-up at ManUre for many years to come and playing in the cups etc.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Footy-Vill on July 02, 2020, 01:25:48 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on July 02, 2020, 01:21:41 PM
We'd have as much chance of signing David De Gea on a permanent deal for £100m as we would of getting Dean Henderson on loan.

It'll be Sheffield United for him again next season, and if he keeps up decent form he'll be at least a back-up at ManUre for many years to come and playing in the cups etc.


No this was the team that Villa could have had at the start of THIS season if did business a different way


Heaton/Henderson
Konsa
Cahill/Jansson
Mings
Baines/Rose
Sawyers
Douglas Luiz
McGinn
Grealish
Bowen
Maupay/Ings


And it's exciting and exactly sort of team Dean Smith would have and flourish with.
Has everything and could have been achieved
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Richard E on July 02, 2020, 01:38:03 PM
I doubt Pontus Jansson, who repeatedly failed to get promoted with Leeds, would have been the answer to all our prayers.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on July 02, 2020, 01:43:54 PM
Sorry, I misunderstood.

The point still stands in retrospect though - he was always going back to Sheffield United again...
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 02, 2020, 01:46:01 PM
Quote from: Richard E on July 02, 2020, 01:38:03 PM
I doubt Pontus Jansson, who repeatedly failed to get promoted with Leeds, would have been the answer to all our prayers.

He's a very good CB at championship level. Was also a starter for Sweden at last WC (kept Lindelof out of the team) so better international experience than the ones we signed in the summer Was also injured for the second leg v Derby when they imploded defensively.

Would take him next season to fill possible Mings void if Brentford don't go up.

Once it was seen that Chester wouldn't cope with prem football (he's really struggled at Stoke btw) it's really odd that all three of our CBs signings were all under 25 and none of them had played in premier league before.

I'd have taken Jansson last summer tbh. Brentford signed him for 5m and he's the sort of mad bugger that would've become a cult hero with Holte End, we do like our Scandinavian centre halves after all.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Gareth on July 02, 2020, 01:50:45 PM
Quote from: Risso on July 02, 2020, 09:41:32 AM
Quote from: Gareth on July 02, 2020, 07:34:20 AM
Quote from: Ads on July 01, 2020, 08:57:39 AM
Would we be better off with;

Webster over Engels?
Philips over Nkamba?
Maupy over Wesley?
Benrhama over Tezuguet?

Would we better off, probably on the pitch with most of them yes, could we afford those 4 with FFP??

Engels started well & we all thought he was going to prove a bargain whilst Webster was a bit iffy, he has improved massively whilst Engels seems to have disappeared off the face of the earth-Webster cost twice as much as Engels

Phillips like Nakamba had never played at this level, think we all think he will be better but 30m+ was surely out of our price range?

Maupay over Wesley is a very interesting one, Wesley had 6 goals by Christmas and was just looking as though he had adjusted, Maupay has 9 in the whole season - personally would have backed Wesley to be in double figures by now if he had been fit - Maupay is a nuisance, has a bit of pace and has that horrible streak that we lack - jury out on which is better for me

Benrahma over Trezeguet, again would have cost double so FFP issues but also the most obvious upgrade-Benrahma looks a player whereas Trezeguet is league one at best, hopefully will be out of VP whatever league we are in next season.



If FFP was the barrier to those, then how come we agreed to pay the wages of a waster like Drinkwater, and took on Reina as well in January?

I suspect we’ll never know the answer to that but they would surely have left some room in whatever budget they had for adding in January - you just wonder if the Jan additions would have been v different without the injuries ie a Benrahma or Bowen instead of Samatta/Drinkwater/Reina/Baston

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 02, 2020, 01:51:41 PM
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on July 01, 2020, 11:00:47 PM
Quote from: The_ads on July 01, 2020, 10:46:22 PM
Not just that, West Ham had something about them tonight. We would concede that penalty and collapse and lose the game 3-0. We have no battling qualities at all, no nouse to shut down a top 6 teams major threats and certainly in no way savvy enough to go and win a game like that 3-2. We deserve to go down because we’ve been fucking garbage since the turn of the year and even worse since the restart.

Based on what? We've not conceded any penalties, we've not conceded 3. We're the only team in the bottom 5 to have kept a clean sheet, the only team in the bottom 5 to have taken points in two games, and we have the best 'restart' goal difference of the bottom 5. West Ham scored 3 today, and theirs is still -3.

Think it's more we had next to no ambition once we'd scored v Chelsea to do something radical and go and score another goal. Instead we just sat back, scared of leaving our half and just let them put endless crosses into our box. Eventually one finds Pulisic. Then another finds Giroud and Chelsea go 2-1 up without even working too hard.

Just a reminder, West Ham should've been 1 up, got VARed but just got on with things and scored from their next corner.

Watching last night it's clear you need an Antonio type in final third in games against top 6/7. He's not technically great but he'll run all day and be a nuisance to defences with his chasing which can win corners/FKs and chips in with goals.

Perhaps Davis will be like that in two years time if he can stay fit and have a good season next year.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 02, 2020, 01:58:52 PM
The article linked to in this tweet is broadly on the money, in my arrogant opinion.
https://twitter.com/MatKendrick/status/1278672314075316224
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 02, 2020, 02:03:11 PM
Likes of Kalvin Phillips and Maupay are better than what we've signed but I doubt they'd have lifted us much beyond 14th.

Was more disappointed last summer we didn't target any decent players from Italy, Spain or Germany. Generally when you're starting to build a decent premier league team those are the leagues you generally sign players from given the levels there are as high if not higher than the prem.

Would've thought Suso would've had a direct hotline to some out of favour Valencia squad players (Francis Coquelin, Kevin Gamiero etc) but there you go.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on July 02, 2020, 02:07:21 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on July 02, 2020, 01:58:52 PM
The article linked to in this tweet is broadly on the money, in my arrogant opinion.
https://twitter.com/MatKendrick/status/1278672314075316224
Agreed.
But 8 points from the last four games?!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on July 02, 2020, 02:10:06 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on July 02, 2020, 01:51:41 PM
... Watching last night it's clear you need an Antonio type in final third in games against top 6/7. He's not technically great but he'll run all day and be a nuisance to defences with his chasing which can win corners/FKs and chips in with goals.

Perhaps Davis will be like that in two years time if he can stay fit and have a good season next year.
Davis has, since the new mini-league started, been doing all that you say Antonio does, I think; other than posing no goal threat.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on July 02, 2020, 02:10:44 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on July 02, 2020, 01:58:52 PM
The article linked to in this tweet is broadly on the money, in my arrogant opinion.
https://twitter.com/MatKendrick/status/1278672314075316224

Measured and not a lot to disagree with but we were led to beleive that we had management who would learn from the mistakes of other promoted clubs and we dont appear to have. The recruitment looked weak at the time and so its proved, the other thing that is yet to have an effect is the improvement in the youth system, it will be a while before we see the fruit of that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 02, 2020, 02:14:51 PM
Quote from: PeterWithe on July 02, 2020, 02:10:44 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on July 02, 2020, 01:58:52 PM
The article linked to in this tweet is broadly on the money, in my arrogant opinion.
https://twitter.com/MatKendrick/status/1278672314075316224

Measured and not a lot to disagree with but we were led to beleive that we had management who would learn from the mistakes of other promoted clubs and we dont appear to have. The recruitment looked weak at the time and so its proved, the other thing that is yet to have an effect is the improvement in the youth system, it will be a while before we see the fruit of that.

I think the key point is that we were hamstrung by the profligacy of the previous two or three years, leaving us with few options once we went up. Add to that that we made poor decisions when we did have a modicum of room for manoeuvre and we are where we are.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 02, 2020, 02:18:11 PM
The article rightly points out that there are numerous off field reasons why we are where we are but they weren't all insurmountable in my view.  That's the specific reason Purslow and Suso (among others) are in their jobs: to solve these problems.  Ultimately, though I don't think it's a question of scapegoating - there is no one person to blame, as the piece says.  There lots of people to blame, which is why I think there is going to be considerable upheaval once the season has finished.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Luke8 on July 02, 2020, 02:25:00 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on July 02, 2020, 02:18:11 PM
The article rightly points out that there are numerous off field reasons why we are where we are but they weren't all insurmountable in my view.  That's the specific reason Purslow and Suso (among others) are in their jobs: to solve these problems.  Ultimately, though I don't think it's a question of scapegoating - there is no one person to blame, as the piece says.  There lots of people to blame, which is why I think there is going to be considerable upheaval once the season has finished.

Considerable upheaval pretty significantly contributed to the position we were in in the summer.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 02, 2020, 02:25:57 PM
Yes good article, who does the author write for as it's far above the usual Brum Mail standard!

I agree with him. Results and performances were o.k up to Leicester and Mings injury and we've looked pretty out of our depth at this level since bar a couple of good performances in January.

We certainly should've got 2-3 older heads on 1-2 year deals.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 02, 2020, 02:28:43 PM
Quote from: Luke8 on July 02, 2020, 02:25:00 PM
Considerable upheaval pretty significantly contributed to the position we were in in the summer.
There's nothing wrong with major change if you get it right.  The trouble at the club this summer no-one at the club seemed capable of getting it right.  Whatever they thought were trying it manifestly didn't work.  Structure, recruitment, coaching, playing.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 02, 2020, 02:29:49 PM
Nothing new in the article.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 02, 2020, 03:07:15 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on July 02, 2020, 02:29:49 PM
Nothing new in the article.

It's not supposed to be news.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 02, 2020, 03:20:31 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on July 02, 2020, 03:07:15 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on July 02, 2020, 02:29:49 PM
Nothing news in the article.

It's not supposed to be news.
My god really it wasn’t news, maybe you mis read
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 02, 2020, 03:23:03 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on July 02, 2020, 03:20:31 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on July 02, 2020, 03:07:15 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on July 02, 2020, 02:29:49 PM
Nothing news in the article.

It's not supposed to be news.
My god really it wasn’t news, maybe you mis read

Easy to misread randomly interrupted words.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 02, 2020, 03:25:41 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on July 02, 2020, 03:23:03 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on July 02, 2020, 03:20:31 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on July 02, 2020, 03:07:15 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on July 02, 2020, 02:29:49 PM
Nothing news in the article.

It's not supposed to be news.
My god really it wasn’t news, maybe you mis read

Easy to misread randomly interrupted words.
Obviously
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: N'ZMAV on July 02, 2020, 05:33:41 PM
that article doesn't really point the finger at anyone - and we all like a bit of finger pointing.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on July 02, 2020, 11:29:58 PM
We left a lot of points behind early in the season. Arsenal & West Ham both down to ten men but we got one point from those two games for example. But we have been tactically naive throughout and powder puff to play against. Smith has to carry the can for that and should have been replaced quite a while ago. We have been sleep walking to relegation for months, despite having one of the best players in the league in our team. Purslow as CEO tolerating it is another firing offence.

The recruitment from Belgium was a disaster, completely had on Wes, Nakamba very average, Engels started very well but seemed to fall out with Smith, Trez ex Belgium league, L1 at best. Suso has to take responsibility for that. I firmly expect Smith was key to some of the domestic flops Jota, Konsa, Targett, two of which were far from cheap. AEG, Luiz, Guilbert all had and have potential but again had no experience of this level and it showed.

Failure to implement a solid spine in the team has done us.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 02, 2020, 11:32:42 PM
Quote from: brontebilly on July 02, 2020, 11:29:58 PM
We left a lot of points behind early in the season. Arsenal & West Ham both down to ten men but we got one point from those two games for example. But we have been tactically naive throughout and powder puff to play against. Smith has to carry the can for that and should have been replaced quite a while ago. We have been sleep walking to relegation for months, despite having one of the best players in the league in our team. Purslow as CEO tolerating it is another firing offence.

The recruitment from Belgium was a disaster, completely had on Wes, Nakamba very average, Engels started very well but seemed to fall out with Smith, Trez ex Belgium league, L1 at best. Suso has to take responsibility for that. I firmly expect Smith was key to some of the domestic flops Jota, Konsa, Targett, two of which were far from cheap. AEG, Luiz, Guilbert all had and have potential but again had no experience of this level and it showed.

Failure to implement a solid spine in the team has done us.

As long as you're happy.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on July 03, 2020, 04:00:56 PM
The girl selling the scratch cards was a good pick.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on July 03, 2020, 04:25:43 PM
Quote from: brontebilly on July 02, 2020, 11:29:58 PM
We left a lot of points behind early in the season. Arsenal & West Ham both down to ten men but we got one point from those two games for example. But we have been tactically naive throughout and powder puff to play against. Smith has to carry the can for that and should have been replaced quite a while ago. We have been sleep walking to relegation for months, despite having one of the best players in the league in our team. Purslow as CEO tolerating it is another firing offence.

The recruitment from Belgium was a disaster, completely had on Wes, Nakamba very average, Engels started very well but seemed to fall out with Smith, Trez ex Belgium league, L1 at best. Suso has to take responsibility for that. I firmly expect Smith was key to some of the domestic flops Jota, Konsa, Targett, two of which were far from cheap. AEG, Luiz, Guilbert all had and have potential but again had no experience of this level and it showed.

Failure to implement a solid spine in the team has done us.
And there's a lot of judgement going on after the first season. Several of these players (almost certainly not Jota and Trez) will come good, given the time.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: DB on July 03, 2020, 04:47:03 PM
That's great, we should wait for them to come good while we get relegated
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on July 03, 2020, 05:58:58 PM
Quote from: DB on July 03, 2020, 04:47:03 PM
That's great, we should wait for them to come good while we get relegated
That wasn't the point.
We know from previous seasons how some acquisitions take time to adapt (Veretout, Gueye, Amavi, etc).
Which is why the acquisition strategy last year was flawed: not enough blending of experience in with the newbies.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on July 03, 2020, 06:07:58 PM
Quote from: Mister E on July 03, 2020, 05:58:58 PM
Quote from: DB on July 03, 2020, 04:47:03 PM
That's great, we should wait for them to come good while we get relegated
That wasn't the point.
We know from previous seasons how some acquisitions take time to adapt (Veretout, Gueye, Amavi, etc).
Which is why the acquisition strategy last year was flawed: not enough blending of experience in with the newbies.

... However having made the same mistake we shouldn't double down on it again by letting all these players go and not benefit from the experience they've gained.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: DB on July 03, 2020, 07:15:26 PM
Quote from: Mister E on July 03, 2020, 05:58:58 PM
Quote from: DB on July 03, 2020, 04:47:03 PM
That's great, we should wait for them to come good while we get relegated
That wasn't the point.
We know from previous seasons how some acquisitions take time to adapt (Veretout, Gueye, Amavi, etc).
Which is why the acquisition strategy last year was flawed: not enough blending of experience in with the newbies.

I agree with the point re recruitment policy, but also they may have just got it wrong and just not good enough quality. In any case we should have bought better, having just come up via the play offs with a huge gap to jump to stay up in the PL, taking on the players we did was daft.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on July 03, 2020, 08:43:42 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 02, 2020, 11:32:42 PM
Quote from: brontebilly on July 02, 2020, 11:29:58 PM
We left a lot of points behind early in the season. Arsenal & West Ham both down to ten men but we got one point from those two games for example. But we have been tactically naive throughout and powder puff to play against. Smith has to carry the can for that and should have been replaced quite a while ago. We have been sleep walking to relegation for months, despite having one of the best players in the league in our team. Purslow as CEO tolerating it is another firing offence.

The recruitment from Belgium was a disaster, completely had on Wes, Nakamba very average, Engels started very well but seemed to fall out with Smith, Trez ex Belgium league, L1 at best. Suso has to take responsibility for that. I firmly expect Smith was key to some of the domestic flops Jota, Konsa, Targett, two of which were far from cheap. AEG, Luiz, Guilbert all had and have potential but again had no experience of this level and it showed.

Failure to implement a solid spine in the team has done us.

As long as you're happy.

Hmmm, are you happy. Odd thing to reply. I thought he made some good points.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on July 04, 2020, 10:09:35 AM
Quote from: DB on July 03, 2020, 07:15:26 PM
Quote from: Mister E on July 03, 2020, 05:58:58 PM
Quote from: DB on July 03, 2020, 04:47:03 PM
That's great, we should wait for them to come good while we get relegated
That wasn't the point.
We know from previous seasons how some acquisitions take time to adapt (Veretout, Gueye, Amavi, etc).
Which is why the acquisition strategy last year was flawed: not enough blending of experience in with the newbies.

I agree with the point re recruitment policy, but also they may have just got it wrong and just not good enough quality. In any case we should have bought better, having just come up via the play offs with a huge gap to jump to stay up in the PL, taking on the players we did was daft.
Agreed. I weep to think we dumped £9m on Trez and £14m on Targett. Yes, the latter had EPL experience but there is little to commend him vs a top-quality 2nd tier left back with youth and enthusiasm on his side, for example. And, RHM or COH (or even Green) would have been a better gamble than Trez.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on July 04, 2020, 01:08:18 PM
Smith went to watch Trezegeut and gave the deal the thumbs up.  Super shit signing.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: DB on July 04, 2020, 02:34:36 PM
Quote from: Mister E on July 04, 2020, 10:09:35 AM
Quote from: DB on July 03, 2020, 07:15:26 PM
Quote from: Mister E on July 03, 2020, 05:58:58 PM
Quote from: DB on July 03, 2020, 04:47:03 PM
That's great, we should wait for them to come good while we get relegated
That wasn't the point.
We know from previous seasons how some acquisitions take time to adapt (Veretout, Gueye, Amavi, etc).
Which is why the acquisition strategy last year was flawed: not enough blending of experience in with the newbies.

I agree with the point re recruitment policy, but also they may have just got it wrong and just not good enough quality. In any case we should have bought better, having just come up via the play offs with a huge gap to jump to stay up in the PL, taking on the players we did was daft.
Agreed. I weep to think we dumped £9m on Trez and £14m on Targett. Yes, the latter had EPL experience but there is little to commend him vs a top-quality 2nd tier left back with youth and enthusiasm on his side, for example. And, RHM or COH (or even Green) would have been a better gamble than Trez.

Cahill for Guilbert another example
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 04, 2020, 02:36:05 PM
Guilbert was already signed. Cahill for Konsa maybe, if Cahill wanted to actually move to us which I doubt.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on July 04, 2020, 03:28:19 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on July 04, 2020, 02:36:05 PM
Guilbert was already signed. Cahill for Konsa maybe, if Cahill wanted to actually move to us which I doubt.

Who knows he might of, might not, we should have tried though, a mistake for me.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sickbeggar on July 04, 2020, 03:34:18 PM
yep. Cahill was a no-brainer. We needed that premier league experience in the defence.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on July 04, 2020, 04:25:40 PM
Enough about Cahill! He was not going to move from London and we weren't going to pay him the £100k a week that Palace are.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on July 04, 2020, 04:40:33 PM
agreed but for me Konsa was like pissing £12m up the wall - we needed another player from Brentford and he's scored a hat trick today.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on July 04, 2020, 04:49:38 PM
Quote from: eamonn on July 04, 2020, 04:25:40 PM
Enough about Cahill! He was not going to move from London and we weren't going to pay him the £100k a week that Palace are.

Ok, calm! I think the point is that we needed more experience, it was obvious, but we all went along with the recruitment & didn’t moan to much because of the play off final & it’s Dean. Well that isn’t doing us much good at the moment. Unless you are good mates with Cahill and he told you he wouldn’t come, you are guessing. Please don’t make out that you know for certain when you don’t, it’s your opinion, which is fine, but not a fact. For me, and my opinion if we didn’t try then I think that’s a mistake, of course we may have spoken to him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 04, 2020, 04:51:45 PM
Quote from: eamonn on July 04, 2020, 04:25:40 PM
Enough about Cahill! He was not going to move from London and we weren't going to pay him the £100k a week that Palace are.
Maybe, maybe not.  But I hope someone at the club at least asked the question rather than assuming he wasn't interested.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 04, 2020, 04:53:59 PM
Quote from: eamonn on July 04, 2020, 04:25:40 PM
Enough about Cahill! He was not going to move from London and we weren't going to pay him the £100k a week that Palace are.

How much are we paying Drinkwater?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on July 04, 2020, 04:55:55 PM
Too much, whatever the amount is.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on July 04, 2020, 05:08:22 PM
Quote from: Risso on July 04, 2020, 04:53:59 PM
Quote from: eamonn on July 04, 2020, 04:25:40 PM
Enough about Cahill! He was not going to move from London and we weren't going to pay him the £100k a week that Palace are.

How much are we paying Drinkwater?

40k a week at a guess.

I just find it reductive to play the "Why we didn't sign x?" game. The bigger issue for me is Dean failing to get the best out of the players that he actually  did sign,  including Danny shagging Drinkwater.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on July 04, 2020, 05:12:07 PM
I agree, as I said more that we needed more experience, Cahill, sorry to mention his name 👍🤣 Is just an example of what and where we should have been looking. The idea that players without experience of the premier league with a manager without the same experience is going to end well, is very short sighted.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 04, 2020, 05:18:06 PM
Once it was seen Chester's fitness wouldn't stand up to premier league football (which we'd have probably known this time last year) we should've got in an experienced CB from somewhere. Signed three all under 25 and it's certainly showed for much of this season. Even Mings wasn't that experienced at prem level.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on July 04, 2020, 05:33:07 PM
Heaton most experienced, Mings, Jack, Targett and errr is that it for players who have played games in the premier league? and those three hadn’t got that much premier league experience.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on July 04, 2020, 05:55:23 PM
I'm not sure if it's already been mentioned but seeing Thomas Frank marching Brentford towards the Prem does slightly make a mockery of the view that Deano was performing miracles keeping them in mid-table doesn't it?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 04, 2020, 06:27:25 PM
Quote from: Ad@m on July 04, 2020, 05:55:23 PM
I'm not sure if it's already been mentioned but seeing Thomas Frank marching Brentford towards the Prem does slightly make a mockery of the view that Deano was performing miracles keeping them in mid-table doesn't it?

What’s interesting also is that every recent Brentford manager has done well and gone on to fail. Frank was Dean’s assistant and has taken the club to new heights. What would be shit is if they come up and we go down in the same season. We have certainly helped them improve, not just by taking their manager allowing Frank to take over but the £27m or so we gave them for Hogan and Konsa.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on July 04, 2020, 06:28:00 PM
Quote from: Ad@m on July 04, 2020, 05:55:23 PM
I'm not sure if it's already been mentioned but seeing Thomas Frank marching Brentford towards the Prem does slightly make a mockery of the view that Deano was performing miracles keeping them in mid-table doesn't it?

I don’t really know anything about Brentford, and I guess they haven’t spent a lot of money, so yes I get your point.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on July 04, 2020, 06:28:52 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on July 04, 2020, 06:27:25 PM
Quote from: Ad@m on July 04, 2020, 05:55:23 PM
I'm not sure if it's already been mentioned but seeing Thomas Frank marching Brentford towards the Prem does slightly make a mockery of the view that Deano was performing miracles keeping them in mid-table doesn't it?

What’s interesting also is that every recent Brentford manager has done well and gone on to fail. Frank was Dean’s assistant and has taken the club to new heights. What would be shit is if they come up and we go down in the same season. We have certainly helped them improve, not just by taking their manager allowing Frank to take over but the £27m or so we gave them for Hogan and Konsa.

How depressing!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 04, 2020, 07:08:43 PM
Quote from: eamonn on July 04, 2020, 05:08:22 PM
Quote from: Risso on July 04, 2020, 04:53:59 PM
Quote from: eamonn on July 04, 2020, 04:25:40 PM
Enough about Cahill! He was not going to move from London and we weren't going to pay him the £100k a week that Palace are.

How much are we paying Drinkwater?

40k a week at a guess.

I just find it reductive to play the "Why we didn't sign x?" game. The bigger issue for me is Dean failing to get the best out of the players that he actually  did sign,  including Danny shagging Drinkwater.

I seem to recall at the time that it was reported that we were paying all his wages, which are about £100k a week.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 04, 2020, 07:43:59 PM
I think we essentially assumed Burnley’s loan deal and I doubt very much they were paying £100k. And I’m sure whatever it was they were paying they were delighted to see us take it on.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on July 04, 2020, 08:17:41 PM
What if Drinkwater has worked closely with Luiz since we got back to training and has helped him learn to play that deep playmaker role but add a bit more steel to his game? Would that justify the cost?

I have no idea if anything like that has happened but the coaching team must see that he's bringing something or his loan would've been allowed to run down in the week.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Des Little on July 04, 2020, 08:20:46 PM
The only way Drinkwater will have earned his ridiculous salary is if he’s been doing shifts at the QE for the past three months. He and Lansbury must laugh all the way home from training each day.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: colin69 on July 04, 2020, 08:37:56 PM
Quote from: Des Little on July 04, 2020, 08:20:46 PM
The only way Drinkwater will have earned his ridiculous salary is if he’s been doing shifts at the QE for the past three months. He and Lansbury must laugh all the way home from training each day.

I’ve just choked on my Merlot....😂😂
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on July 04, 2020, 08:42:24 PM
Quote from: Des Little on July 04, 2020, 08:20:46 PM
The only way Drinkwater will have earned his ridiculous salary is if he’s been doing shifts at the QE for the past three months. He and Lansbury must laugh all the way home from training each day.

Nah 3months on the frontlines of the NHS wouldn't cover 3days let alone 3months.

It's sad that I'm not joking.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Richard E on July 04, 2020, 08:50:11 PM
The only way Drinkwater will have earned his salary will be if he has spent the last three months single handedly successfully developing a foolproof vaccine for coronavirus.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 04, 2020, 11:18:56 PM
Quote from: Ad@m on July 04, 2020, 05:55:23 PM
I'm not sure if it's already been mentioned but seeing Thomas Frank marching Brentford towards the Prem does slightly make a mockery of the view that Deano was performing miracles keeping them in mid-table doesn't it?

Brentford were building every year under DS. They actually started that season he joined us pretty well, would've challenged for top 6 if he'd stayed that season.

Stepped up an extra gear this season due to their incredible strikeforce and also that stange policy of signing experienced players in central defence and midfield. Given how we've defended this season Pontus Jansson would've improved us at the back. They got him for about 5m so only a bit more than Hause.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on July 04, 2020, 11:21:18 PM
Pontus Jansson is absolutely shite, positioning is awful. One of those defenders that scores a few so gets rated higher than he should.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: rougegorge on July 05, 2020, 12:23:24 AM
Quote from: LukeJames on July 04, 2020, 11:21:18 PM
Pontus Jansson is absolutely shite, positioning is awful. One of those defenders that scores a few so gets rated higher than he should.
Sometimes outspoken and controversial, but he is obviously better than that. He hasn't scored any this season but is a mainstay of the team with the best defence in the Championship. They are the top scorers as well.

He also gets quite a few games for Sweden too, and they are a solid team.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 05, 2020, 12:25:15 AM
Quote from: LukeJames on July 04, 2020, 11:21:18 PM
Pontus Jansson is absolutely shite, positioning is awful. One of those defenders that scores a few so gets rated higher than he should.

He was keeping Lindelof out of the team for Sweden at last world cup wasn't he? He has his flaws but I reckon he's one the Holte end would've loved. Seems to have no trouble being a regular for top end championship teams. Leeds collapsed defensively when he missed the second PO match v Derby aswell.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on July 05, 2020, 06:23:22 AM
Quote from: LukeJames on July 04, 2020, 11:21:18 PM
Pontus Jansson is absolutely shite, positioning is awful. One of those defenders that scores a few so gets rated higher than he should.

He seems to be one of those players who looks ungainly and awkward at times.  I am not comparing him to Tony Adams, but the two of them, never great players but wonderful defenders and Jansson seems to be one of those types.  Not easy on the eye but as good defender.

Brentford seem to be better under Frank than Dean.  They have a particular behind the scenes way of doing things.  Dean at Villa, in the top league, hasn't worked.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on July 05, 2020, 07:28:29 AM
Pontus Janssen can get to f*ck.

He was the only arsehole in that Leeds team who tried to stop us scoring when Bielsa told them all to let us walk it in to the net.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on July 05, 2020, 09:28:28 AM
For what Brentford paid, I'd rather have had Janssen than Engles and/or Konsa.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on July 05, 2020, 09:43:12 AM
I don't mind Konsa. £12m did seem a lot but for his first season, he's been ok and there's something to work with I think. Like a few people have said though, having some experience in that back line would have helped. Thinking about it, having some experience up front may have helped as well.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 05, 2020, 10:33:01 AM
Quote from: Ad@m on July 05, 2020, 07:28:29 AM
Pontus Janssen can get to f*ck.

He was the only arsehole in that Leeds team who tried to stop us scoring when Bielsa told them all to let us walk it in to the net.

The Leeds fans love him for that.  Bit of pride and passion when it's in your side is a good thing.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: DB on July 05, 2020, 11:19:37 AM
Or undermining your Manager is another way to look at it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on July 05, 2020, 01:13:34 PM
Quote from: Risso on July 05, 2020, 10:33:01 AM
Quote from: Ad@m on July 05, 2020, 07:28:29 AM
Pontus Janssen can get to f*ck.

He was the only arsehole in that Leeds team who tried to stop us scoring when Bielsa told them all to let us walk it in to the net.

The Leeds fans love him for that.  Bit of pride and passion when it's in your side is a good thing.

Leeds fans would.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on July 05, 2020, 06:12:46 PM
bye Dean
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 05, 2020, 06:14:59 PM
He isn’t getting fired.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 05, 2020, 06:17:40 PM
Today isn't the reason we're getting relegated.

Infact in a funny way just losing 2-0 boosts things just a tiny little bit as I'd imagine Watford fans were hoping Liverpool would put 4 or 5 past us. Could still happen on Thursday of course.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on July 05, 2020, 06:21:49 PM
Any semblance of tactical nous he appeared to have has evaporated. He's fucking rubbish.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 05, 2020, 06:24:32 PM
Even if by some miracle we survive he has to go
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on July 05, 2020, 06:28:01 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on July 05, 2020, 06:21:49 PM
Any semblance of tactical nous he appeared to have has evaporated. He's fucking rubbish.

Completely out of his depth in this division and doesnt show any signs of that ever changing.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 05, 2020, 06:30:23 PM
3 home games and a winnable last day against Wet Spam. Watch us get fuck all out of this.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on July 05, 2020, 06:32:35 PM
What the fuck were those substitutions about?  We stood a chance of nicking a point and he brings on Jota, who proceeded to give the ball away every time he touched it. He took El Ghazi off and left Trezeguet on?  I just don't get it. I have been saying for months that Dean needed to go, I haven't changed my mind despite some saying we are still in touch.  Watford win tomorrow and we are four points adrift.  Sleepwalking to relegation.  We have to win two from five just to catch up.  Are people really expecting us to win four out of five to stay up?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ez on July 05, 2020, 06:36:21 PM
Not many managers survive such a crap run of results. Dean Smith will.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Big Ming on July 05, 2020, 06:50:35 PM
Dean's got to be half thinking about his compo package now.

Speaking of which, does anyone have a round figure of just how much compo our great club has paid out since Sherwood in Managers/Coaching teams/Paid-up/Cancelled Player contracts?

I bet it will dwarf the Grealish money.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The_ads on July 05, 2020, 06:52:14 PM
Quote from: Newby on July 05, 2020, 06:32:35 PM
What the fuck were those substitutions about?  We stood a chance of nicking a point and he brings on Jota, who proceeded to give the ball away every time he touched it. He took El Ghazi off and left Trezeguet on?  I just don't get it. I have been saying for months that Dean needed to go, I haven't changed my mind despite some saying we are still in touch.  Watford win tomorrow and we are four points adrift.  Sleepwalking to relegation.  We have to win two from five just to catch up.  Are people really expecting us to win four out of five to stay up?


There’s no way we need 39 points to stay up. 35 would do it easy
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on July 05, 2020, 06:52:55 PM
We could still do this if we did something about our lack-of-strikeforce.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: BoVillan esq on July 05, 2020, 06:53:21 PM
Quote from: Big Ming on July 05, 2020, 06:50:35 PM
Dean's got to be half thinking about his compo package now.

Speaking of which, does anyone have a round figure of just how much compo our great club has paid out since Sherwood in Managers/Coaching teams/Paid-up/Cancelled Player contracts?

I bet it will dwarf the Grealish money.

No idea but i'd except 10ml  from Smith to get his resignation as compensation.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on July 05, 2020, 06:55:58 PM
Needs to go for broke now.

Dispense with the useless wingers.

4-3-3 with McGinn, Luiz, Nakamba in the middle, Grealish Samatta and Vassilev up front.

Hourihane as alternate for the mids (but he can't pass, so that's an issue), and Davis / El Ghazi as alternates for the attackers.

Gung ho to score some goals. We can't play the goal difference game anymore with West Ham four points ahead of us so we just need to try to win a couple of games by hook or by crook.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on July 05, 2020, 07:02:40 PM
The guy is clearly out of his depth at this level ......I'm not sure he is the  right choice to get us promoted next season either .....
Yes I think we are down already ...expecting this "team" to win any games in the next five fixtures is bordering on insanity
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 05, 2020, 07:04:42 PM
Why leave Trezeguet on, and take El Ghazi off?  El Ghazi was one of our better players, Trezeguet utterly anonymous.

Why start with a clearly unfit and overweight McGinn, and then not take him off?

Why bring the farcically bad Jota on?

He's lost it, should have been fucked off ages ago.  Perhaps when Edens realises English sport has relegation he'll wake up and act.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Big Ming on July 05, 2020, 07:05:26 PM
If we had pushed out the boat for Behrahma and Lolley we could not have been worse off than we have been with the two winger clowns that we ended up with.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: RamboandBruno on July 05, 2020, 07:12:50 PM
Quote from: Risso on July 05, 2020, 07:04:42 PM
Why leave Trezeguet on, and take El Ghazi off?  El Ghazi was one of our better players, Trezeguet utterly anonymous.

Why start with a clearly unfit and overweight McGinn, and then not take him off?

Why bring the farcically bad Jota on?

He's lost it, should have been fucked off ages ago.  Perhaps when Edens realises English sport has relegation he'll wake up and act.

Agree about Trezeguet and jota, but thought McGinn did ok especially 1st half. Got a feeling he’ll have a good game against man utd
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 05, 2020, 07:15:48 PM
Quote from: RamboandBruno on July 05, 2020, 07:12:50 PM
Quote from: Risso on July 05, 2020, 07:04:42 PM
Why leave Trezeguet on, and take El Ghazi off?  El Ghazi was one of our better players, Trezeguet utterly anonymous.

Why start with a clearly unfit and overweight McGinn, and then not take him off?

Why bring the farcically bad Jota on?

He's lost it, should have been fucked off ages ago.  Perhaps when Edens realises English sport has relegation he'll wake up and act.

Agree about Trezeguet and jota, but thought McGinn did ok especially 1st half. Got a feeling he’ll have a good game against man utd

He was awful.  Looks a stone overweight.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 05, 2020, 07:18:59 PM
Quote from: Risso on July 05, 2020, 07:15:48 PM
He was awful.  Looks a stone overweight.
Have to agree.  He looks nowhere near his best and doesn't even seem to be improving game on game.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on July 05, 2020, 07:21:49 PM
Quote from: The_ads on July 05, 2020, 06:52:14 PM
Quote from: Newby on July 05, 2020, 06:32:35 PM
What the fuck were those substitutions about?  We stood a chance of nicking a point and he brings on Jota, who proceeded to give the ball away every time he touched it. He took El Ghazi off and left Trezeguet on?  I just don't get it. I have been saying for months that Dean needed to go, I haven't changed my mind despite some saying we are still in touch.  Watford win tomorrow and we are four points adrift.  Sleepwalking to relegation.  We have to win two from five just to catch up.  Are people really expecting us to win four out of five to stay up?


There’s no way we need 39 points to stay up. 35 would do it easy

Where have I suggested 39 points?  If Watford win tomorrow, we are four points behind them.  Meaning we have to win twice from five games just to catch Watford?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: RamboandBruno on July 05, 2020, 07:22:15 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on July 05, 2020, 07:18:59 PM
Quote from: Risso on July 05, 2020, 07:15:48 PM
He was awful.  Looks a stone overweight.
Have to agree.  He looks nowhere near his best and doesn't even seem to be improving game on game.

Disagree with the improving but. Thought the first half was the best he’s played since the re start, obviously not the same level as the pre the ankle break.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 05, 2020, 07:32:24 PM
2 points from our last 27. How is he still in gainful employment?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Luke8 on July 05, 2020, 07:40:08 PM
Quote from: Newby on July 05, 2020, 07:21:49 PM
Quote from: The_ads on July 05, 2020, 06:52:14 PM
Quote from: Newby on July 05, 2020, 06:32:35 PM
What the fuck were those substitutions about?  We stood a chance of nicking a point and he brings on Jota, who proceeded to give the ball away every time he touched it. He took El Ghazi off and left Trezeguet on?  I just don't get it. I have been saying for months that Dean needed to go, I haven't changed my mind despite some saying we are still in touch.  Watford win tomorrow and we are four points adrift.  Sleepwalking to relegation.  We have to win two from five just to catch up.  Are people really expecting us to win four out of five to stay up?


There’s no way we need 39 points to stay up. 35 would do it easy

Where have I suggested 39 points?  If Watford win tomorrow, we are four points behind them.  Meaning we have to win twice from five games just to catch Watford?

If that scenario occurred, we would be ahead of them. A win and a draw would catch them up.

Also, their next game is on Tuesday.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 05, 2020, 07:41:32 PM
Quote from: Risso on July 05, 2020, 07:32:24 PM
2 points from our last 27. How is he still in gainful employment?

It is pretty incredible.

It reminds me of the last relegation season where we effectively gave up in January. We've done the same thing, only this time driven by a desperate wish for the manager to do well.

All we have seen so far is that he - and most of the players signed by Suso - are just not good enough for this level. The likes of Konsa, for example, might become good enough, but right now, they're not. Keinan Davis, AEG, Trezeguet, Hause, Targett, Jota, Wesley, Nakamba - all not good enough.

And that is why we are going down.

Nice bloke, Dean, Villa fan, too, but if it weren't for the fact he's 'one of us' he'd have been gone long ago.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Luke8 on July 05, 2020, 07:42:23 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on July 05, 2020, 07:18:59 PM
Quote from: Risso on July 05, 2020, 07:15:48 PM
He was awful.  Looks a stone overweight.
Have to agree.  He looks nowhere near his best and doesn't even seem to be improving game on game.

Each to their own, but I thought it was quite considerably his best performance since his injury.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 05, 2020, 07:45:06 PM
That’s not saying much.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on July 05, 2020, 07:51:37 PM
Quote from: Luke8 on July 05, 2020, 07:40:08 PM
Quote from: Newby on July 05, 2020, 07:21:49 PM
Quote from: The_ads on July 05, 2020, 06:52:14 PM
Quote from: Newby on July 05, 2020, 06:32:35 PM
What the fuck were those substitutions about?  We stood a chance of nicking a point and he brings on Jota, who proceeded to give the ball away every time he touched it. He took El Ghazi off and left Trezeguet on?  I just don't get it. I have been saying for months that Dean needed to go, I haven't changed my mind despite some saying we are still in touch.  Watford win tomorrow and we are four points adrift.  Sleepwalking to relegation.  We have to win two from five just to catch up.  Are people really expecting us to win four out of five to stay up?


There’s no way we need 39 points to stay up. 35 would do it easy

Where have I suggested 39 points?  If Watford win tomorrow, we are four points behind them.  Meaning we have to win twice from five games just to catch Watford?

If that scenario occurred, we would be ahead of them. A win and a draw would catch them up.

Also, their next game is on Tuesday.

Well done on pointing out their next game, Tuesday, not tomorrow, so what?  If they win, their goal difference will be even better.  Meaning we will have to win a game really handsomely and draw a game just to catch them.  Oh, and hope that they don't pick up any more points as we will have to match those as well.   Goal difference will matter.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 05, 2020, 07:51:43 PM
That he hasn’t been fired suggests to me we are all missing the big picture. That none of us are smart to see the “plan”. I mean how else do you explain it? That a year after going up and all of the financial rewards it brings that we are in all likelihood about to go straight back down. Lose our best players yet again. It must be something we are all missing as to why Dean Smith hasn’t been replaced by somebody, anybody that can keep us up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on July 05, 2020, 07:54:46 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on July 05, 2020, 07:51:43 PM
That he hasn’t been fired suggests to me we are all missing the big picture. That none of us are smart to see the “plan”. I mean how else do you explain it? That a year after going up and all of the financial rewards it brings that we are in all likelihood about to go straight back down. Lose our best players yet again. It must be something we are all missing as to why Dean Smith hasn’t been replaced by somebody, anybody that can keep us up.

Your probably right.  'You took us down, you bring us back up.  In the meantime, we give you permission to pull together all of the incoming transfers, whilst we sell your best players'.  Fuck, I hope we are wrong TV.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 05, 2020, 07:57:33 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on July 05, 2020, 07:41:32 PM
Quote from: Risso on July 05, 2020, 07:32:24 PM
2 points from our last 27. How is he still in gainful employment?

It is pretty incredible.

It reminds me of the last relegation season where we effectively gave up in January. We've done the same thing, only this time driven by a desperate wish for the manager to do well.

All we have seen so far is that he - and most of the players signed by Suso - are just not good enough for this level. The likes of Konsa, for example, might become good enough, but right now, they're not. Keinan Davis, AEG, Trezeguet, Hause, Targett, Jota, Wesley, Nakamba - all not good enough.

And that is why we are going down.

Nice bloke, Dean, Villa fan, too, but if it weren't for the fact he's 'one of us' he'd have been gone long ago.

If we don't get a win in the last 5 games we'd have actually gone longer winless than in 15/16 when our last win of that season was in early February. Only at Villa. Really not sure how he could survive us going down in that manner. It's been abysmal since middle of January.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 05, 2020, 07:58:57 PM
The new owners. Just as crap as the last owners.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan82 on July 05, 2020, 08:03:39 PM
I for one am sick to death of it all. Aston Villa since 2010 has been a story of misery.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Meanwood Villa on July 05, 2020, 08:04:35 PM
I can't be bothered checking but does anyone know if Lambert had a run as bad as this, i.e. 10 without a win? I set him as the lowest of low bars. Leaving 15/16 aside of course which was just all sorts of record breakingly shit.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 05, 2020, 08:06:21 PM
There was a shot of Dean on the touchline in his too-tight sportswear and he looked like he should be running a burger van.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT on July 05, 2020, 08:07:19 PM
Quote from: Villan82 on July 05, 2020, 08:03:39 PM
I for one am sick to death of it all. Aston Villa since 2010 has been a story of misery.

Sounds like a good strap line for a DVD. “A decade of misery”. A cast of imbeciles you just won’t believe. 

Should be in the club shop next month!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 05, 2020, 08:09:46 PM
Quote from: Meanwood Villa on July 05, 2020, 08:04:35 PM
I can't be bothered checking but does anyone know if Lambert had a run as bad as this, i.e. 10 without a win? I set him as the lowest of low bars. Leaving 15/16 aside of course which was just all sorts of record breakingly shit.

How many more goals do we need to concede to match the 2016 atrocity?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 05, 2020, 08:12:12 PM
Quote from: Risso on July 05, 2020, 08:09:46 PM
Quote from: Meanwood Villa on July 05, 2020, 08:04:35 PM
I can't be bothered checking but does anyone know if Lambert had a run as bad as this, i.e. 10 without a win? I set him as the lowest of low bars. Leaving 15/16 aside of course which was just all sorts of record breakingly shit.

How many more goals do we need to concede to match the 2016 atrocity?
14
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 05, 2020, 08:13:14 PM
Quote from: Risso on July 05, 2020, 07:58:57 PM
The new owners. Just as crap as the last owners.
A bit unfair, they have trusted a CEO and a management team to get it right and invested millions.
The test is what the fuck do they do now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aev on July 05, 2020, 08:19:08 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on July 05, 2020, 08:13:14 PM
Quote from: Risso on July 05, 2020, 07:58:57 PM
The new owners. Just as crap as the last owners.
A bit unfair, they have trusted a CEO and a management team to get it right and invested millions.
The test is what the fuck do they do now.

As someone highlighted earlier, I just hope they still want to throw money at it. The aim was PL, and whilst we may have gone up a season earlier than they thought, it looks likely we will be back in the Championship .
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on July 05, 2020, 08:24:08 PM
Quote from: Meanwood Villa on July 05, 2020, 08:04:35 PM
I can't be bothered checking but does anyone know if Lambert had a run as bad as this, i.e. 10 without a win? I set him as the lowest of low bars. Leaving 15/16 aside of course which was just all sorts of record breakingly shit.

12 without a win saw the end of Lambert. The following season we went 19 without a win!😳
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Goldie.7 on July 05, 2020, 08:30:36 PM
8 points from the last 13 matches is atrocious. Today was our 20th league defeat.

Smith out.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 05, 2020, 08:33:16 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on July 05, 2020, 08:13:14 PM
Quote from: Risso on July 05, 2020, 07:58:57 PM
The new owners. Just as crap as the last owners.
A bit unfair, they have trusted a CEO and a management team to get it right and invested millions.
The test is what the fuck do they do now.

Totally agree.

Harsh on the owners.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on July 05, 2020, 08:35:40 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on July 05, 2020, 08:33:16 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on July 05, 2020, 08:13:14 PM
Quote from: Risso on July 05, 2020, 07:58:57 PM
The new owners. Just as crap as the last owners.
A bit unfair, they have trusted a CEO and a management team to get it right and invested millions.
The test is what the fuck do they do now.

Totally agree.

Harsh on the owners.

I agree, nearly, but they seem to be doing nothing to assist the attempts to stay in this league?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on July 05, 2020, 08:40:38 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on July 05, 2020, 08:33:16 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on July 05, 2020, 08:13:14 PM
Quote from: Risso on July 05, 2020, 07:58:57 PM
The new owners. Just as crap as the last owners.
A bit unfair, they have trusted a CEO and a management team to get it right and invested millions.
The test is what the fuck do they do now.

Totally agree.

Harsh on the owners.
Very harsh, we would have been in all heaps of mess financially without these taking us on.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on July 05, 2020, 08:46:54 PM
Quote from: Ian J on July 05, 2020, 08:40:38 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on July 05, 2020, 08:33:16 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on July 05, 2020, 08:13:14 PM
Quote from: Risso on July 05, 2020, 07:58:57 PM
The new owners. Just as crap as the last owners.
A bit unfair, they have trusted a CEO and a management team to get it right and invested millions.
The test is what the fuck do they do now.

Totally agree.

Harsh on the owners.
Very harsh, we would have been in all heaps of mess financially without these taking us on.


Which is why it is all the more surprising that they seem to be sleepwalking towards the Championship.  Unless they have their next Manager lined up but can't appoint now for some odd reason.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: myf on July 05, 2020, 08:49:32 PM
Bruce was sacked after 1 win in 11 I think. There was a lot of frustration that the new owners stuck by him for that long.

in 2020 we've won 3 in 17.

2 league wins in 13 (8 losses). no wins in last 9.

it's soul destroying supporting this club.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ASHTONVILLA on July 05, 2020, 08:49:40 PM
Quote from: Risso on July 05, 2020, 07:58:57 PM
The new owners. Just as crap as the last owners.

Appoint rubbish Chairman - tick
Appoint rubbish Head scout / DOF - tick
Spunk massive amounts of money on drek players with big contracts - tick
Moneyball strategy run by imbeciles - tick
Stick with failing manager too long - tick

Just need to add relegation and mumble about shunanites and they can rip the mask off and reveal themselves as Randy in disguise.

Like all our owners since Ellis they have spent a lot, but given it to people not up to the job. Let's hope this time they stick at it and change things up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 05, 2020, 08:55:04 PM
The blokes who took us over when we were hours from administration, got us promoted when relegation was looking more likely and have stuck in hundreds of millions of pounds? Those shit owners?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on July 05, 2020, 08:55:24 PM
What would be the point of foisting John Terry on Dean Smith if they are not going to appoint him as our next manager? Just asking!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on July 05, 2020, 08:58:14 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 05, 2020, 08:55:04 PM
The blokes who took us over when we were hours from administration, got us promoted when relegation was looking more likely and have stuck in hundreds of millions of pounds? Those shit owners?

What is the expression about a fool and his money?  They don't strike me as fools Dave, but you have to admit, they seem a little slow to act on what appears to be a steady and certain decline towards the Championship?  Maybe they have faith that Dean will pull it out for the bag and will wait to the bitter end to see if that happens but it is looking more and more likely.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 05, 2020, 08:59:54 PM
Quote from: ASHTONVILLA on July 05, 2020, 08:49:40 PM
Quote from: Risso on July 05, 2020, 07:58:57 PM
The new owners. Just as crap as the last owners.

Appoint rubbish Chairman - tick
Appoint rubbish Head scout / DOF - tick
Spunk massive amounts of money on drek players with big contracts - tick
Moneyball strategy run by imbeciles - tick
Stick with failing manager too long - tick

Just need to add relegation and mumble about shunanites and they can rip the mask off and reveal themselves as Randy in disguise.

Like all our owners since Ellis they have spent a lot, but given it to people not up to the job. Let's hope this time they stick at it and change things up.
they hired a CEO and all of those actions were down to Purslow,
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ASHTONVILLA on July 05, 2020, 09:00:18 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 05, 2020, 08:55:04 PM
The blokes who took us over when we were hours from administration and have stuck in hundreds of millions of pounds? Those shit owners?

Not saying they are. They have done a lot right, and have wasted a lot of their own money.

So did Randy, and even Tony Xia.

Can't argue with the financial commitment. Appointments have failed and let them down though. What will determine if they are effective owners is what they do next. Ivan hoping they change things up and have another go.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 05, 2020, 09:03:11 PM
Quote from: Newby on July 05, 2020, 08:58:14 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 05, 2020, 08:55:04 PM
The blokes who took us over when we were hours from administration, got us promoted when relegation was looking more likely and have stuck in hundreds of millions of pounds? Those shit owners?

What is the expression about a fool and his money?  They don't strike me as fools Dave, but you have to admit, they seem a little slow to act on what appears to be a steady and certain decline towards the Championship?  Maybe they have faith that Dean will pull it out for the bag and will wait to the bitter end to see if that happens but it is looking more and more likely.

They're certainly not fools and they'll more than likely be looking at bigger pictures, blue sky thinking and all sorts of corporate bollocks, but the day to day running of the club is down to Purslow. Looking at where we are now and where we were the day they arrived, you can;t say they've been bad owners.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 05, 2020, 09:04:39 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 05, 2020, 09:03:11 PM
They're certainly not fools and they'll more than likely be looking at bigger pictures, blue sky thinking and all sorts of corporate bollocks, but the day to day running of the club is down to Purslow. Looking at where we are now and where we were the day they arrived, you can;t say they've been bad owners.

Do you know if they interviewed candidates for CEO or was Purslow recommended to them?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 05, 2020, 09:06:44 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on July 05, 2020, 09:04:39 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 05, 2020, 09:03:11 PM
They're certainly not fools and they'll more than likely be looking at bigger pictures, blue sky thinking and all sorts of corporate bollocks, but the day to day running of the club is down to Purslow. Looking at where we are now and where we were the day they arrived, you can;t say they've been bad owners.

Do you know if they interviewed candidates for CEO or was Purslow recommended to them?

No idea, but he was widely acclaimed when he arrived.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on July 05, 2020, 09:07:04 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 05, 2020, 09:03:11 PM
Quote from: Newby on July 05, 2020, 08:58:14 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 05, 2020, 08:55:04 PM
The blokes who took us over when we were hours from administration, got us promoted when relegation was looking more likely and have stuck in hundreds of millions of pounds? Those shit owners?

What is the expression about a fool and his money?  They don't strike me as fools Dave, but you have to admit, they seem a little slow to act on what appears to be a steady and certain decline towards the Championship?  Maybe they have faith that Dean will pull it out for the bag and will wait to the bitter end to see if that happens but it is looking more and more likely.

They're certainly not fools and they'll more than likely be looking at bigger pictures, blue sky thinking and all sorts of corporate bollocks, but the day to day running of the club is down to Purslow. Looking at where we are now and where we were the day they arrived, you can;t say they've been bad owners.

What is your inkling Dave, Smith to stay, or go?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 05, 2020, 09:12:03 PM
The criticism of previous owners has been not having the correct structure in place. They have that, it worked and got us to the PL.
What were they supposed to do other than allow the CEO to get on with things, you do not hire and fire cEOs in the way you do managers. I am sure they would have been constantly questioning Purslow.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 05, 2020, 09:12:16 PM
Quote from: Newby on July 05, 2020, 09:07:04 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 05, 2020, 09:03:11 PM
Quote from: Newby on July 05, 2020, 08:58:14 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 05, 2020, 08:55:04 PM
The blokes who took us over when we were hours from administration, got us promoted when relegation was looking more likely and have stuck in hundreds of millions of pounds? Those shit owners?

What is the expression about a fool and his money?  They don't strike me as fools Dave, but you have to admit, they seem a little slow to act on what appears to be a steady and certain decline towards the Championship?  Maybe they have faith that Dean will pull it out for the bag and will wait to the bitter end to see if that happens but it is looking more and more likely.

They're certainly not fools and they'll more than likely be looking at bigger pictures, blue sky thinking and all sorts of corporate bollocks, but the day to day running of the club is down to Purslow. Looking at where we are now and where we were the day they arrived, you can;t say they've been bad owners.

What is your inkling Dave, Smith to stay, or go?

If you're asking if I know anything, I haven't got a clue. If you're asking my opinion, it hasn't really changed since last week. Let's see how he approaches the rest of the season first.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AVH87 on July 05, 2020, 09:51:38 PM
Even as results fail to improve, I've found myself more sympathetic to Smith's position since lockdown. I just feel more and more that the quality isn't there, the only quality attacking player we have is Jack. Any trio of Davis, Samatta, Wesley, Baston, AEG, Trez, Jota, AEM you pick in front of him, SJM and Luiz just is nowhere near Prem quality.

However, as I'm resigned to relegation the question is can DS get us straight back via top 2. On one hand I think he knows the problems we would need to rectify and add pace and power in the summer, on the other I can't shake the feeling we'd go on long, crap runs like the 2 wins in 13 we did last season. The powers that be need to make sure they are getting all the info from those on the ground on his coaching, players motivation and respect for DS and his team before making a huge decision next month.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on July 05, 2020, 09:58:49 PM
Dave a couple of games ago you said if we go down the key thing is whether we go down with a fight. Out of interest, what do you think the last couple of games, including today, say on that front? (Not a loaded question).
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 05, 2020, 10:04:54 PM
Quote from: themossman on July 05, 2020, 09:58:49 PM
Dave a couple of games ago you said if we go down the key thing is whether we go down with a fight. Out of interest, what do you think the last couple of games, including today, say on that front? (Not a loaded question).

One was poor, today was more organised and we probably did as well as we could.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on July 05, 2020, 10:30:51 PM
Thanks, probably where I am.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: curiousorange on July 05, 2020, 10:35:23 PM
A large number of these players will still be with Villa if, or rather when, we start the Championship season. Dean Smith doesn't seem to be getting anything other than participation out of them, so to me it seem illogical to assume he would turn that around after a relegation.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 05, 2020, 10:38:31 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 05, 2020, 09:03:11 PM
Quote from: Newby on July 05, 2020, 08:58:14 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 05, 2020, 08:55:04 PM
The blokes who took us over when we were hours from administration, got us promoted when relegation was looking more likely and have stuck in hundreds of millions of pounds? Those shit owners?

What is the expression about a fool and his money?  They don't strike me as fools Dave, but you have to admit, they seem a little slow to act on what appears to be a steady and certain decline towards the Championship?  Maybe they have faith that Dean will pull it out for the bag and will wait to the bitter end to see if that happens but it is looking more and more likely.

They're certainly not fools and they'll more than likely be looking at bigger pictures, blue sky thinking and all sorts of corporate bollocks, but the day to day running of the club is down to Purslow. Looking at where we are now and where we were the day they arrived, you can;t say they've been bad owners.
Edens does not come across as  an  advocate of corporate speak, Purslow certainly does.
When you look at our owners business acumen, they are certainly not fools and will not tolerate piss poor performance for long. But they will see the season out
and review when the season has finally played out. This is all on Purslows head he has the responsibility and the authority.
Very unlikely that both he and Smith will survive relegation.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OzVilla on July 05, 2020, 10:43:39 PM
I think they’ll both survive relegation but Smith will need to be top 4 at the very minimum by October.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 05, 2020, 10:56:04 PM
Quote from: themossman on July 05, 2020, 10:30:51 PM
Thanks, probably where I am.

I think the frustrating thing is that if we'd have been as organised since January as we were today, and in truth have been for most of the restart, we'd be a couple of points better off and a lot more hopeful.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on July 05, 2020, 10:56:22 PM
Quote from: OzVilla on July 05, 2020, 10:43:39 PM
I think they’ll both survive relegation but Smith will need to be top 4 at the very minimum by October.

The problem with that is that we have yet more churn as the new manager will want his own players.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan82 on July 05, 2020, 10:59:06 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 05, 2020, 10:56:04 PM
Quote from: themossman on July 05, 2020, 10:30:51 PM
Thanks, probably where I am.

I think the frustrating thing is that if we'd have been as organised since January as we were today, and in truth have been for most of the restart, we'd be a couple of points better off and a lot more hopeful.

Absolutely. Smith's biggest failing this year is leaving us so open in those first 11-12 games. We should have ground out 2-3 draws more in that time and, as you say, since January.

3-4 extra points and we'd be almost safe.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 05, 2020, 11:00:50 PM
Quote from: Newby on July 05, 2020, 10:56:22 PM
Quote from: OzVilla on July 05, 2020, 10:43:39 PM
I think they’ll both survive relegation but Smith will need to be top 4 at the very minimum by October.

The problem with that is that we have yet more churn as the new manager will want his own players.
I expect Eden’s to do a drains up on the season.
Him and Sawaris will then decide.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 05, 2020, 11:01:50 PM
Quote from: Newby on July 05, 2020, 10:56:22 PM
Quote from: OzVilla on July 05, 2020, 10:43:39 PM
I think they’ll both survive relegation but Smith will need to be top 4 at the very minimum by October.

The problem with that is that we have yet more churn as the new manager will want his own players.
The CEO / Sporting Director / Manager structure is supposed to prevent that isn't it? 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Meanwood Villa on July 05, 2020, 11:08:01 PM
Quote from: Ad@m on July 05, 2020, 08:24:08 PM
Quote from: Meanwood Villa on July 05, 2020, 08:04:35 PM
I can't be bothered checking but does anyone know if Lambert had a run as bad as this, i.e. 10 without a win? I set him as the lowest of low bars. Leaving 15/16 aside of course which was just all sorts of record breakingly shit.

12 without a win saw the end of Lambert. The following season we went 19 without a win!😳

Thanks for replying. The Lambert years seemed to produce a lot of horrific runs but I hadn't realised it had got as bad as 12 without a win. I despised him by the end and was jubilant when he got sacked. Not there at all with Deano, still love him for last season but this run is depressing as hell and as always in these circumstances you just can't see when it's going to end.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Monty on July 05, 2020, 11:21:14 PM
To be honest, he has shown that he's not good enough and should be replaced come the summer wherever we are. He could argue that if we stay up, he would have shown that; for me, though, it just looks like he's not building anything and never has, but rather just muddles from one game to the next, obviously out of his depth, just hoping for the best.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on July 05, 2020, 11:28:58 PM
He hasn't managed to get a tune out of the players.  They battled well today until Liverpool found a way to break our concentration and we still lost.  We might be harder to beat, but we are still losing games.  I don't think he has improved a single player under his management.  Regardless of whether he purchased any of them or not, it's his job to inspire and motivate them and he hasn't done that either.  I see nothing in Dean Smith that tells me he is able to turn this around.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 05, 2020, 11:46:06 PM
Quote from: Newby on July 05, 2020, 08:58:14 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 05, 2020, 08:55:04 PM
The blokes who took us over when we were hours from administration, got us promoted when relegation was looking more likely and have stuck in hundreds of millions of pounds? Those shit owners?

What is the expression about a fool and his money?  They don't strike me as fools Dave, but you have to admit, they seem a little slow to act on what appears to be a steady and certain decline towards the Championship?  Maybe they have faith that Dean will pull it out for the bag and will wait to the bitter end to see if that happens but it is looking more and more likely.

They've done o.k so far. Xia was one game from getting us back in the prem and we all know what a mess it was behind the scenes (and I'm not saying it's anything like that now). Getting us back into the prem was the bare minimum. Clearly too much for us but long term goal has to be to get us in contention for europe again given since 2014 newly promoted teams Leicester, Burnley and Wolves have all played at least in europa and Sheffield United are still threatening to make top 7.

Have to say Edens interview a few months ago did worry me a little. Lauding transfer policy of Arsenal which was a bit baffling and saying we'd continue to sign young players with promising stats potential. I simply don't see how we can build a competitive top half premier league team doing that. Been a big failure this season so we simply must adjust the strategy hopefully in 12 months time. And this summer if we can still stay up.

Next manager will also tell plenty. A steady but uninspiring appointment or able to attract manager that will get decent players from europe interested in playing for us as we've seen elsewhere in last few years.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 06, 2020, 12:06:59 AM
Quote from: Meanwood Villa on July 05, 2020, 11:08:01 PM
Quote from: Ad@m on July 05, 2020, 08:24:08 PM
Quote from: Meanwood Villa on July 05, 2020, 08:04:35 PM
I can't be bothered checking but does anyone know if Lambert had a run as bad as this, i.e. 10 without a win? I set him as the lowest of low bars. Leaving 15/16 aside of course which was just all sorts of record breakingly shit.

12 without a win saw the end of Lambert. The following season we went 19 without a win!😳

Thanks for replying. The Lambert years seemed to produce a lot of horrific runs but I hadn't realised it had got as bad as 12 without a win. I despised him by the end and was jubilant when he got sacked. Not there at all with Deano, still love him for last season but this run is depressing as hell and as always in these circumstances you just can't see when it's going to end.

Wasn't just the long winless runs, we also wouldn't score a goal for 6 or 7 games.

This season has just been disappointing. Another opportunity to build on the momentum of last four months of last year when the club finally seemed to be making progress but it's all just fizzled out yet again.

I do think we're in a much better place than 2016 when it felt like Rome burning for much of that season. Considering the state we came down and then had Xia for first two years of the championship nearly running us out of business we did very well to get out of championship within 3 years. That's something that won't be happening to Sunderland for obvious reasons and probably Stoke who were relegated in the seasons afterwards.

Surprised at some of the negativity from people thinking we'll be down there even longer this time, I don't see that at all. As long as we make smart strategic decisions regarding transfers (which has been beyond us for at least 10 years) I think we'll bounce straight back.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OzVilla on July 06, 2020, 12:36:41 AM
On the plus side Burnley have now temporarily sneaked into the top 10 meaning we can finally say we've beaten a top 10 team this season - still 2/42 on offer against the top 8 though.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 06, 2020, 12:39:03 AM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on July 06, 2020, 12:06:59 AM
As long as we make smart strategic decisions regarding transfers (which has been beyond us for at least 10 years) I think we'll bounce straight back.
That's such a massive 'if' though.  That's what make me worry about next season, plus Dean's never finished higher than fifth, and the player who did more than anyone else to get us up almost certainly won't be here.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 06, 2020, 12:49:33 AM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on July 06, 2020, 12:39:03 AM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on July 06, 2020, 12:06:59 AM
As long as we make smart strategic decisions regarding transfers (which has been beyond us for at least 10 years) I think we'll bounce straight back.
That's such a massive 'if' though.  That's what make me worry about next season, plus Dean's never finished higher than fifth, and the player who did more than anyone else to get us up almost certainly won't be here.

I think we'll keep Heaton and McGinn. We obviously need better in final third but stick a Chester style CB in and I think rest of side looks o.k.

Dean Smith won't be lasting beyond September if we make our annual painstaking slow start to a championship season. Heat will be on him from first game just like it was Steve Bruce.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 06, 2020, 12:53:08 AM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on July 06, 2020, 12:49:33 AM
I think we'll keep Heaton and McGinn. We obviously need better in final third but stick a Chester style CB in and I think rest of side looks o.k.

Dean Smith won't be lasting beyond September if we make our annual painstaking slow start to a championship season. Heat will be on him from first game just like it was Steve Bruce.
If there's a chance we might pull the trigger in September we might as well bin him at the end of this season, if we do go down.  I suppose it the end it comes down to whether you rate Dean or not and I don't, I'm sorry to say.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ROBBO on July 06, 2020, 01:03:29 AM
He's avoided the fans turning on him which would have been terrible for him personally, He can't take all the blame but decisions like bringing Jotta on makes me think he's out of his depth.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan82 on July 06, 2020, 01:08:18 AM
A good manager would have us on at least 31-32 points now. We know ourselves that we didn't get enough points from good performances/ opportunities in the first half of the season. Then we had the distraction of the League Cup.

Staying up, by hook or by crook, was the name of the game this season and I feel we have, so far, under-achieved by 4-5 points.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ROBBO on July 06, 2020, 02:42:25 AM
I'm not a fan of Smith but i ask myself what forward set up and what players do we have that would get us more chances in front of goal.
Just look at the squad, all Smith has are players with very limited ability, maybe throw Louiz forward, as at least he is improving, just rotating the same garbage players will bring the same result. Name your forward set up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 06, 2020, 02:54:20 AM
I'm a lot less concerned about going down this time around. We don't have to sell anyone, but we will because it just makes sense to. And the players that are still here will be good enough for the Championship combined with the right additions. And the competition albeit not to be dismissed won't be as tough as the previous times we were there.

As it relates to Jack, we need to be far more versatile in how we play. It can't all go through one player so moving on from him, whether we stay up or go down isn't the end of thr world. There cannot be such a disparity between one player and the rest. We need different options and in the PL teams are far too good not to shut down your best player.You can get away with it in the Championship.

It wouldn't be the end of the world if Smith stays if we go down. I just don't want him to be our manager if it happens.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sid1964 on July 06, 2020, 07:30:15 AM
Do you honestly think that Mcginn / Mings / Grealish / Luiz etc. will want to play in the championship - not a chance, they will be looking for a way out as soon as relegation is confirmed.

The policy of the club was to buy players who would have a sell on value, and that is what we will be doing.

The players who know that they wont get the money they get paid at Aston Villa anywhere else, will be the one's we are left with, such as- Lansbury / Hourihane
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 06, 2020, 07:36:32 AM
The “ we will be ok if we go down” is fantasy, we won’t. This squad is not set up too deal with Division 2 and the heart will be ripped out of it.We will end up with some expensive, cant get rid of players which does nothing for squad harmony and togetherness and need to replace many key players.
As well as the psychological blow you have the huge reorganisation required.
We then have the worry concerning our owners appetite.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 06, 2020, 07:49:06 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 05, 2020, 10:56:04 PM
Quote from: themossman on July 05, 2020, 10:30:51 PM
Thanks, probably where I am.

I think the frustrating thing is that if we'd have been as organised since January as we were today, and in truth have been for most of the restart, we'd be a couple of points better off and a lot more hopeful.

We've taken two points in 5 games, so I'm not sure how that really translates into any more points, as we just don't look like scoring.  We were fairly well organised yesterday but errors costs us dear again, and that's been the case all season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on July 06, 2020, 09:20:49 AM
Quote from: Risso on July 05, 2020, 07:58:57 PM
The new owners. Just as crap as the last owners.

It's all about opinions I suppose but that is just utter nonsense and one of the more bizarre things I've read on here over the years.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on July 06, 2020, 09:38:53 AM
Quote from: sid1964 on July 06, 2020, 07:30:15 AM
Do you honestly think that Mcginn / Mings / Grealish / Luiz etc. will want to play in the championship - not a chance, they will be looking for a way out as soon as relegation is confirmed.

The policy of the club was to buy players who would have a sell on value, and that is what we will be doing.

The players who know that they wont get the money they get paid at Aston Villa anywhere else, will be the one's we are left with, such as- Lansbury / Hourihane

Do you honestly think our gazillionaire owners give a shit either about the money or whether a players "wants" to stay or not.

They're contacted to the club unless they have release clauses. I'd be telling them that they've got one season to get us back up and show what they're capable of. If they arse around no one else will want them so they'll be motivated to get us back up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on July 06, 2020, 09:42:21 AM
Quote from: Ad@m on July 06, 2020, 09:38:53 AM
Quote from: sid1964 on July 06, 2020, 07:30:15 AM
Do you honestly think that Mcginn / Mings / Grealish / Luiz etc. will want to play in the championship - not a chance, they will be looking for a way out as soon as relegation is confirmed.

The policy of the club was to buy players who would have a sell on value, and that is what we will be doing.

The players who know that they wont get the money they get paid at Aston Villa anywhere else, will be the one's we are left with, such as- Lansbury / Hourihane

Do you honestly think our gazillionaire owners give a shit either about the money or whether a players "wants" to stay or not.

They're contacted to the club unless they have release clauses. I'd be telling them that they've got one season to get us back up and show what they're capable of. If they arse around no one else will want them so they'll be motivated to get us back up.

In an ideal world, that would be great but what's the point in keeping players if they don't want to be there? I'd imagine one or two have relegation clauses as well if it comes to that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 06, 2020, 10:01:40 AM
Quote from: Clampy on July 06, 2020, 09:20:49 AM
Quote from: Risso on July 05, 2020, 07:58:57 PM
The new owners. Just as crap as the last owners.

It's all about opinions I suppose but that is just utter nonsense and one of the more bizarre things I've read on here over the years.

You thought that the chances of us going into administration were similarly crazy, I seem to recall, so with with all due respect, I'll take your opinion with a pinch of salt.

All the new owners have done so far is buy the club, put a poorly functioning management structure in place, waste a huge amount of money, and get us relegated.  Exactly the same as Lerner, just in double quick time.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on July 06, 2020, 10:07:26 AM
Quote from: Risso on July 06, 2020, 10:01:40 AM
Quote from: Clampy on July 06, 2020, 09:20:49 AM
Quote from: Risso on July 05, 2020, 07:58:57 PM
The new owners. Just as crap as the last owners.

It's all about opinions I suppose but that is just utter nonsense and one of the more bizarre things I've read on here over the years.

You thought that the chances of us going into administration were similarly crazy, I seem to recall, so with with all due respect, I'll take your opinion with a pinch of salt.

All the new owners have done so far is buy the club, put a poorly functioning management structure in place, waste a huge amount of money, and get us relegated.  Exactly the same as Lerner, just in double quick time.

They have also pumped in a shit load of money behind the scenes as well. If it wasn't for them coming in when they did, I dread to think what would have happened. It's not been a great season obviously, but the owners are last on my list to have a pop at.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aev on July 06, 2020, 10:09:14 AM
If we get relegated I can't imagine any of Mcginn, Grealish or Mings staying. The fact they are contracted doesn't really make any difference other than meaning we will get some cash for them, which would probably less than we would get for them if we stayed up and they were sold.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 06, 2020, 10:15:51 AM
Quote from: Clampy on July 06, 2020, 10:07:26 AM
They have also pumped in a shit load of money behind the scenes as well. If it wasn't for them coming in when they did, I dread to think what would have happened. It's not been a great season obviously, but the owners are last on my list to have a pop at.

Well done them on being rich enough to buy a club.  All owners who turn out to be crap, do that.  Lerner did exactly the same, and isn't regarded very fondly now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on July 06, 2020, 10:17:18 AM
Quote from: Risso on July 06, 2020, 10:15:51 AM
Quote from: Clampy on July 06, 2020, 10:07:26 AM
They have also pumped in a shit load of money behind the scenes as well. If it wasn't for them coming in when they did, I dread to think what would have happened. It's not been a great season obviously, but the owners are last on my list to have a pop at.

Well done them on being rich enough to buy a club.  All owners who turn out to be crap, do that.  Lerner did exactly the same, and isn't regarded very fondly now.

I'm glad that they bought us when they did so they have my support.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 06, 2020, 10:19:26 AM
I support Aston Villa not a couple of billioanires who haven't done a very good job this season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 06, 2020, 10:20:42 AM
Risso, you know how it works, they appointed a CEO and the structure worked last season. This season it hasn’t, I am not sure what they could have done other than asking some searching questions as we went into the Jan window. They must have believed the answers they got.
I think the blame rests squarely with Purslow  Pitarch and Smith.
I just hope they don't lose interest like Lerner did.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on July 06, 2020, 10:22:26 AM
Quote from: Risso on July 06, 2020, 10:19:26 AM
I support Aston Villa not a couple of billioanires who haven't done a very good job this season.

I support Aston Villa as well, and everyone connected with the club.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 06, 2020, 10:28:52 AM
Quote from: Risso on July 06, 2020, 10:01:40 AM
Quote from: Clampy on July 06, 2020, 09:20:49 AM
Quote from: Risso on July 05, 2020, 07:58:57 PM
The new owners. Just as crap as the last owners.

It's all about opinions I suppose but that is just utter nonsense and one of the more bizarre things I've read on here over the years.

You thought that the chances of us going into administration were similarly crazy, I seem to recall, so with with all due respect, I'll take your opinion with a pinch of salt.

All the new owners have done so far is buy the club, put a poorly functioning management structure in place, waste a huge amount of money, and get us relegated.  Exactly the same as Lerner, just in double quick time.

You must have missed them getting us promoted.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on July 06, 2020, 10:32:04 AM
Quote from: Villan82 on July 05, 2020, 10:59:06 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 05, 2020, 10:56:04 PM
Quote from: themossman on July 05, 2020, 10:30:51 PM
Thanks, probably where I am.

I think the frustrating thing is that if we'd have been as organised since January as we were today, and in truth have been for most of the restart, we'd be a couple of points better off and a lot more hopeful.

Absolutely. Smith's biggest failing this year is leaving us so open in those first 11-12 games. We should have ground out 2-3 draws more in that time and, as you say, since January.

3-4 extra points and we'd be almost safe.

Yeah, agree with you both. Said after the Sheff Utd game we seem to have figured out how to keep it tight and close out draws when we’re at a point of the season where we need wins and should probably be going all out for them.

If we’d been harder to roll over early in the season we’d have felt our way into the league, built confidence and had a platform to build on.

Instead, I feel like we threw away a lot of belief because of the manner in which we lost points.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on July 06, 2020, 10:35:40 AM
Quote from: Clampy on July 06, 2020, 10:22:26 AM
Quote from: Risso on July 06, 2020, 10:19:26 AM
I support Aston Villa not a couple of billioanires who haven't done a very good job this season.

I support Aston Villa as well, and everyone connected with the club.

Steve Hodge?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on July 06, 2020, 10:52:37 AM
the past is a foreign country.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on July 06, 2020, 10:59:39 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 06, 2020, 10:28:52 AM
Quote from: Risso on July 06, 2020, 10:01:40 AM
Quote from: Clampy on July 06, 2020, 09:20:49 AM
Quote from: Risso on July 05, 2020, 07:58:57 PM
The new owners. Just as crap as the last owners.

It's all about opinions I suppose but that is just utter nonsense and one of the more bizarre things I've read on here over the years.

You thought that the chances of us going into administration were similarly crazy, I seem to recall, so with with all due respect, I'll take your opinion with a pinch of salt.

All the new owners have done so far is buy the club, put a poorly functioning management structure in place, waste a huge amount of money, and get us relegated.  Exactly the same as Lerner, just in double quick time.

You must have missed them getting us promoted.

It's usually Jack Grealish who got us promoted

Occasionally Dean Smith, depending on which way the wind is blowing
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on July 06, 2020, 11:19:48 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 06, 2020, 10:28:52 AM
Quote from: Risso on July 06, 2020, 10:01:40 AM
Quote from: Clampy on July 06, 2020, 09:20:49 AM
Quote from: Risso on July 05, 2020, 07:58:57 PM
The new owners. Just as crap as the last owners.

It's all about opinions I suppose but that is just utter nonsense and one of the more bizarre things I've read on here over the years.

You thought that the chances of us going into administration were similarly crazy, I seem to recall, so with with all due respect, I'll take your opinion with a pinch of salt.

All the new owners have done so far is buy the club, put a poorly functioning management structure in place, waste a huge amount of money, and get us relegated.  Exactly the same as Lerner, just in double quick time.

You must have missed them getting us promoted.

And a cup final. And maybe even survival.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 06, 2020, 11:21:53 AM
I would take a performance and point against Southampton rather than Final appearance.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 06, 2020, 11:21:58 AM
Getting promoted was good work by Smith, but football is littered with managers who got teams promoted but then weren't good enough for the top league.

Either Smith is a great coach who has been hamstrung by woeful recruitment that he had little say in, or he's not good enough to keep a team in the Premier League.  Either way the owners have kept people in their posts who have contrubuted to our likely relegation.  January was absolutely abysmal in terms of doing anything about our plight, easily as negligent as anything Lerner did during his latter years.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 06, 2020, 11:23:49 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on July 06, 2020, 11:21:53 AM
I would take a performance and point against Southampton rather than Final appearance.

In this sentence, so football dies.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on July 06, 2020, 11:24:45 AM
Quote from: Clampy on July 06, 2020, 09:42:21 AM
Quote from: Ad@m on July 06, 2020, 09:38:53 AM
Quote from: sid1964 on July 06, 2020, 07:30:15 AM
Do you honestly think that Mcginn / Mings / Grealish / Luiz etc. will want to play in the championship - not a chance, they will be looking for a way out as soon as relegation is confirmed.

The policy of the club was to buy players who would have a sell on value, and that is what we will be doing.

The players who know that they wont get the money they get paid at Aston Villa anywhere else, will be the one's we are left with, such as- Lansbury / Hourihane

Do you honestly think our gazillionaire owners give a shit either about the money or whether a players "wants" to stay or not.

They're contacted to the club unless they have release clauses. I'd be telling them that they've got one season to get us back up and show what they're capable of. If they arse around no one else will want them so they'll be motivated to get us back up.

In an ideal world, that would be great but what's the point in keeping players if they don't want to be there? I'd imagine one or two have relegation clauses as well if it comes to that.

Remember Grealish wanting to leave when Spurs came calling?

Later that season he got us promoted.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on July 06, 2020, 11:26:03 AM
Quote from: Ad@m on July 06, 2020, 11:24:45 AM
Quote from: Clampy on July 06, 2020, 09:42:21 AM
Quote from: Ad@m on July 06, 2020, 09:38:53 AM
Quote from: sid1964 on July 06, 2020, 07:30:15 AM
Do you honestly think that Mcginn / Mings / Grealish / Luiz etc. will want to play in the championship - not a chance, they will be looking for a way out as soon as relegation is confirmed.

The policy of the club was to buy players who would have a sell on value, and that is what we will be doing.

The players who know that they wont get the money they get paid at Aston Villa anywhere else, will be the one's we are left with, such as- Lansbury / Hourihane

Do you honestly think our gazillionaire owners give a shit either about the money or whether a players "wants" to stay or not.

They're contacted to the club unless they have release clauses. I'd be telling them that they've got one season to get us back up and show what they're capable of. If they arse around no one else will want them so they'll be motivated to get us back up.

In an ideal world, that would be great but what's the point in keeping players if they don't want to be there? I'd imagine one or two have relegation clauses as well if it comes to that.

Remember Grealish wanting to leave when Spurs came calling?

Later that season he got us promoted.

I don't think he wanted to leave, he nearly had to. Had the new owners not come in, it would have been out of his hands.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on July 06, 2020, 11:28:28 AM
He really did...

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/11510848/jack-grealish-admits-disappointment-over-failed-tottenham-transfer
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on July 06, 2020, 11:34:45 AM
I think the deal was so far down the line given our financial state, his head was set on leaving, that's probably what it was. What I'm trying to say is, I don't think he asked to leave, at the time he had to.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ASHTONVILLA on July 06, 2020, 12:18:16 PM
Quote from: Risso on July 06, 2020, 11:21:58 AM
Getting promoted was good work by Smith, but football is littered with managers who got teams promoted but then weren't good enough for the top league.

Either Smith is a great coach who has been hamstrung by woeful recruitment that he had little say in, or he's not good enough to keep a team in the Premier League.  Either way the owners have kept people in their posts who have contrubuted to our likely relegation.  January was absolutely abysmal in terms of doing anything about our plight, easily as negligent as anything Lerner did during his latter years.

We really have not been blessed in the post Ellis era, three billionaires in row that have all appointed poor chairman and terrible managers and spunked fortunes on poor players with big contracts. Lerner gave us some good years initially, but it all went wrong when he couldn't appoint a decent replacement for MON.

FFP is the big problem, as any new owner (current incumbents included) is restricted in spending our way out of problems. This means recruitment really has to be better than it has been, and we may already have spent our way into a corner which will be hard to get out of. We are again going to saddled with a dreadful squad full of overpaid players that we can't get back the book value on.

We need to find a far better manager than Smith who is simply not good enough to get us promoted minus Grealish, and has proven himself incapable of finding a system that suits the players at his disposal, coaching players or motivating them.Curre

The owners have massively screwed up in sticking with a set up that clearly was not working. The next appointment needs to be 'Graham Taylor' and not an 'Alex McCleish'. Smith reminds me of Graham Turner and Paul Lambert, nice men that shone at a small club but who are completely out of their depth.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on July 06, 2020, 12:20:31 PM
That bloke at Newcastle's doing ok.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on July 06, 2020, 12:34:23 PM
Quote from: Risso on July 06, 2020, 11:21:58 AM
Getting promoted was good work by Smith, but football is littered with managers who got teams promoted but then weren't good enough for the top league.

Either Smith is a great coach who has been hamstrung by woeful recruitment that he had little say in, or he's not good enough to keep a team in the Premier League.  Either way the owners have kept people in their posts who have contrubuted to our likely relegation.  January was absolutely abysmal in terms of doing anything about our plight, easily as negligent as anything Lerner did during his latter years.

Can't help but agree with this.

I would say the owners did well last season to keep us afloat as a business and arguably Purslow was a shrewd appointment at the time as he understood the mechanics of FFP and steered us clear of the wolves in that respect. Collectively those 3 then pulled the plug on Bruce when the time was right and put in place a manager who, to all intents and purposes, played the type of football the fans wanted to see. We know the rest.

This season could not be more of a contrast. To a man they've all failed to steward the club intelligently. At the moment we are hoping (and failing) to be the least shit of 3/4 clubs still fighting for survival. Based on points, we should be relegated already.

I'll be shocked if we stay up. At which point we can all, I hope, admit to what a disaster the season has been.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on July 06, 2020, 12:39:44 PM
The thing with owners is you can't have it both ways.

After years of HDE's meddling we were pretty much to a man crying out for a billionaire who would appoint a decent manager and stay out of it other than to write cheques. At the time, Lerner and O'Neill was that combo.

Obviously hindsight teaches us it was far from ideal but I'm not sure going back to an owner who's constantly sticking his oar in is the right way to go either.

The owners appoint a CEO to run the club. If mistakes are made, he should carry the can, not the owners. The owners responsibility should be limited to identifying when a CEO isn't up to the task and then change them for a new one.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 06, 2020, 12:48:32 PM
Quote from: Ad@m on July 06, 2020, 12:39:44 PM
The thing with owners is you can't have it both ways.

After years of HDE's meddling we were pretty much to a man crying out for a billionaire who would appoint a decent manager and stay out of it other than to write cheques. At the time, Lerner and O'Neill was that combo.

Obviously hindsight teaches us it was far from ideal but I'm not sure going back to an owner who's constantly sticking his oar in is the right way to go either.

The owners appoint a CEO to run the club. If mistakes are made, he should carry the can, not the owners. The owners responsibility should be limited to identifying when a CEO isn't up to the task and then change them for a new one.

That isn't going to work in reality though.  The CEO in our case is just as culpable as everybody else.  He put the Smith/Pitarch structure in place, and he'd then have to admit he's fucked up badly, which from his general demeanour I dont imagine is high on his list of priorities.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 06, 2020, 12:48:57 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on July 06, 2020, 07:36:32 AM
The “ we will be ok if we go down” is fantasy, we won’t. This squad is not set up too deal with Division 2 and the heart will be ripped out of it.We will end up with some expensive, cant get rid of players which does nothing for squad harmony and togetherness and need to replace many key players.
As well as the psychological blow you have the huge reorganisation required.
We then have the worry concerning our owners appetite.

Same happened last time didn't it? Infact I'd be amazed if anyone was to argue the 2016 squad was better than this one. Yet we came up within three years (could've been two if we'd turned up v Fulham). Also Jordan Ayew was our best attacking player that season and he stayed although ironically he didn't do much in the championship.

How did we bounce back so quickly? Three years really isn't that long when you see Forest, Sheff Weds and Leeds have a combined 57 years out of the top division now.

People forgetting we will be a big fish in small pond again and can actually attract better players than being a premier league struggler. Last time out we signed Chester, Kodjia, Adomah, Jedinak in that first transfer window. All were involved when we won the play off final but for one reason or another couldn't contribute in the premier league.

Think that's what we need to learn for next time. The 4-5 we sign to freshen up and improve the 11 need not just to be standout players in championship but also have the potential to be good players in premier league.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 06, 2020, 12:54:53 PM
Quote from: Ad@m on July 06, 2020, 12:39:44 PM
The thing with owners is you can't have it both ways.

After years of HDE's meddling we were pretty much to a man crying out for a billionaire who would appoint a decent manager and stay out of it other than to write cheques. At the time, Lerner and O'Neill was that combo.

Obviously hindsight teaches us it was far from ideal but I'm not sure going back to an owner who's constantly sticking his oar in is the right way to go either.

The owners appoint a CEO to run the club. If mistakes are made, he should carry the can, not the owners. The owners responsibility should be limited to identifying when a CEO isn't up to the task and then change them for a new one.

I personally think Wes Edens had a lot to do with direction of last season's transfer policy (Nas is a bit of a mystery to me with his intentions so seems more of a silent partner). Keep on going back to this interview which unnerved me a bit:

https://www.tribalfootball.com/articles/aston-villa-co-owner-wes-edens-reveals-new-plans-for-transfer-policy-4322821

No idea how we're going to become a serious force in premier league within next five years just signing mediocre young players from Belgium and Turkey all the time.

We had a better strategy in summer 2015 but in true Villa timing decided to finally do it when we'd just lost our three most influential players.

Also praising Arsenal's transfer policy is pretty odd.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 06, 2020, 01:12:37 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on July 06, 2020, 12:48:57 PM
How did we bounce back so quickly? Three years really isn't that long when you see Forest, Sheff Weds and Leeds have a combined 57 years out of the top division now.
Another three years in the Championship would set us much further back than we are now, which is miles off.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on July 06, 2020, 01:13:38 PM
I think the logic of looking for undervalued players is sound.

In a world of FFP, even though our owners have the resources to do so, they can't just buy all the best players on the planet. They've got to build the revenue stream of the club at the same time as the playing squad. Unfortunately that's a bit chicken and egg. So the answer is to look for players who can do both.

Unfortunately, in US sports the worst that can happen if that goes wrong is you'll finish last and have another crack next year. Football obviously has relegation which is why "young and hungry" to coin a phrase got us relegated last time and will do the same again this time. While the approach is sound in principle it needs to be supplemented with a few experienced heads to help bring through the youngsters quicker. That's where we've gone wrong again this time.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 06, 2020, 01:20:36 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on July 06, 2020, 01:12:37 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on July 06, 2020, 12:48:57 PM
How did we bounce back so quickly? Three years really isn't that long when you see Forest, Sheff Weds and Leeds have a combined 57 years out of the top division now.
Another three years in the Championship would set us much further back than we are now, which is miles off.

I think we'd come straight back up next season (top 2) providing we make quick and sensible decisions in summer e.g. decide on manager's future within days of this one ending. Also no point trying to cling onto Jack for the whole summer just to lose him as the season starts as we've done in the past with likes of Milner. If he's going let him go quick.

Who knows how good the 5-6 new players who will be lining up in our 11 will be in September? People seem to be thinking we'll just go with the same squad we had now. It didn't happen in 2016 and it won't happen now as you always need fresh faces if you're going down with a losing culture.

I actually think McGinn will stay aswell. He hasn't looked right at all coming back from injury so think a few interested clubs will wait for him to hit form again in the championship. He also signed a new long term contract in August.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 06, 2020, 01:31:53 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on July 06, 2020, 01:20:36 PM
I think we'd come straight back up next season (top 2) providing we make quick and sensible decisions in summer e.g. decide on manager's future within days of this one ending. Also no point trying to cling onto Jack for the whole summer just to lose him as the season starts as we've done in the past with likes of Milner. If he's going let him go quick.

Who knows how good the 5-6 new players who will be lining up in our 11 will be in September? People seem to be thinking we'll just go with the same squad we had now. It didn't happen in 2016 and it won't happen now as you always need fresh faces if you're going down with a losing culture.
I think we're going to have change the recruitment team and the manager / coaching team if we want to even think about coming straight back up.  There are so many problems to fix at the moment.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on July 06, 2020, 01:36:28 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on July 06, 2020, 12:48:57 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on July 06, 2020, 07:36:32 AM
The “ we will be ok if we go down” is fantasy, we won’t. This squad is not set up too deal with Division 2 and the heart will be ripped out of it.We will end up with some expensive, cant get rid of players which does nothing for squad harmony and togetherness and need to replace many key players.
As well as the psychological blow you have the huge reorganisation required.
We then have the worry concerning our owners appetite.

Same happened last time didn't it? Infact I'd be amazed if anyone was to argue the 2016 squad was better than this one. Yet we came up within three years (could've been two if we'd turned up v Fulham). Also Jordan Ayew was our best attacking player that season and he stayed although ironically he didn't do much in the championship.

How did we bounce back so quickly? Three years really isn't that long when you see Forest, Sheff Weds and Leeds have a combined 57 years out of the top division now.

People forgetting we will be a big fish in small pond again and can actually attract better players than being a premier league struggler. Last time out we signed Chester, Kodjia, Adomah, Jedinak in that first transfer window. All were involved when we won the play off final but for one reason or another couldn't contribute in the premier league.

Think that's what we need to learn for next time. The 4-5 we sign to freshen up and improve the 11 need not just to be standout players in championship but also have the potential to be good players in premier league.


Generally speaking I have to disagree with your suggestion that a big Championship club can attract players more so than a smaller Premier League club. The days of SGT leaving comfortably top flight Watford for us in a league lower are long gone. Every season you see players who have just been relegated from the Premier League with one club jump ship for a newly promoted side. If we go down and Bournemouth stay up most players given a choice would choose to sign for 'Little Bournemouth' in the Premier League rather than Aston Villa of the Championship.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 06, 2020, 01:37:52 PM
Sawiris was at quite a few more games than Edens was this season, and seemed to be far more "into it" than Wes.  He went absolutely mental when Trezeguet scored v Liverpool.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 06, 2020, 02:00:51 PM
Quote from: Damo70 on July 06, 2020, 01:36:28 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on July 06, 2020, 12:48:57 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on July 06, 2020, 07:36:32 AM
The “ we will be ok if we go down” is fantasy, we won’t. This squad is not set up too deal with Division 2 and the heart will be ripped out of it.We will end up with some expensive, cant get rid of players which does nothing for squad harmony and togetherness and need to replace many key players.
As well as the psychological blow you have the huge reorganisation required.
We then have the worry concerning our owners appetite.

Same happened last time didn't it? Infact I'd be amazed if anyone was to argue the 2016 squad was better than this one. Yet we came up within three years (could've been two if we'd turned up v Fulham). Also Jordan Ayew was our best attacking player that season and he stayed although ironically he didn't do much in the championship.

How did we bounce back so quickly? Three years really isn't that long when you see Forest, Sheff Weds and Leeds have a combined 57 years out of the top division now.

People forgetting we will be a big fish in small pond again and can actually attract better players than being a premier league struggler. Last time out we signed Chester, Kodjia, Adomah, Jedinak in that first transfer window. All were involved when we won the play off final but for one reason or another couldn't contribute in the premier league.

Think that's what we need to learn for next time. The 4-5 we sign to freshen up and improve the 11 need not just to be standout players in championship but also have the potential to be good players in premier league.


Generally speaking I have to disagree with your suggestion that a big Championship club can attract players more so than a smaller Premier League club. The days of SGT leaving comfortably top flight Watford for us in a league lower are long gone. Every season you see players who have just been relegated from the Premier League with one club jump ship for a newly promoted side. If we go down and Bournemouth stay up most players given a choice would choose to sign for 'Little Bournemouth' in the Premier League rather than Aston Villa of the Championship.

In our three years in the championship we signed John Terry, Snodgrass and Tammy. That is far higher pedigree of player than anything we attracted last summer. Snoddy, a mid table workaholic wide player is still miles better than dear old Trez and would've probably got more goals and assists than AEG has this year. 5 goals for West Ham so think that's one more than El Ghazi.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on July 06, 2020, 02:21:05 PM
I think we will be better equipped in the championship if we go but anyone thinking it won’t be so bad if we go down need to look at what’s happening.

We made a £68m loss and that was after selling the ground.  We will have probably made a loss this year despite the PL money. 

Championship clubs are on the brink in some cases.  The TV deal there gives you £6m plus tv appearances.  There’s talk of a wage cap at £18m to replace ffp.  Imagine our wage bill?!  There’s a lot to be concerned about and that is reliant on the owners not pulling up the drawbridge. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 06, 2020, 03:20:25 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on July 06, 2020, 12:48:57 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on July 06, 2020, 07:36:32 AM
The “ we will be ok if we go down” is fantasy, we won’t. This squad is not set up too deal with Division 2 and the heart will be ripped out of it.We will end up with some expensive, cant get rid of players which does nothing for squad harmony and togetherness and need to replace many key players.
As well as the psychological blow you have the huge reorganisation required.
We then have the worry concerning our owners appetite.

Same happened last time didn't it? Infact I'd be amazed if anyone was to argue the 2016 squad was better than this one. Yet we came up within three years (could've been two if we'd turned up v Fulham). Also Jordan Ayew was our best attacking player that season and he stayed although ironically he didn't do much in the championship.

How did we bounce back so quickly? Three years really isn't that long when you see Forest, Sheff Weds and Leeds have a combined 57 years out of the top division now.

People forgetting we will be a big fish in small pond again and can actually attract better players than being a premier league struggler. Last time out we signed Chester, Kodjia, Adomah, Jedinak in that first transfer window. All were involved when we won the play off final but for one reason or another couldn't contribute in the premier league.

Think that's what we need to learn for next time. The 4-5 we sign to freshen up and improve the 11 need not just to be standout players in championship but also have the potential to be good players in premier league.
It was 3 years , 2 play offs a winding up petition and a financial rescue. You have no idea what the squad will look like, who the manager will be, our ability to sign better players, how many we will need, how many deadbeats we can get off the books and no idea what our owners will do.
Other than that, it will be a piece of piss.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 06, 2020, 03:35:37 PM
At a different level I would love to be eventually do what Leicester have done. They seem to have a pipeline of great talent that they sell on for twice or three times the price. The title certainly helped push them on but even before that they were collecting brilliant undervalued pieces. Wolves obviously also but the Mendes connection helps them immensely. We cannot avoid losing our best players up the food chain. What we must be better at is finding players from all across the world before they become established.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KevinGage on July 06, 2020, 03:42:47 PM
Indeed. Lose Harry Maguire and find Soyuncu - who looks a far more accomplished player.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 06, 2020, 03:45:57 PM
Quote from: KevinGage on July 06, 2020, 03:42:47 PM
Indeed. Lose Harry Maguire and find Soyuncu - who looks a far more accomplished player.

They raked in a bunch from selling Mahrez, Kante, Drinkwater and will do so again this summer when Chilwell likely moves on. Didn’t they pay a small fee for Johnny Evans? He’s been superb for them.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on July 06, 2020, 04:51:34 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on July 06, 2020, 03:45:57 PM
Quote from: KevinGage on July 06, 2020, 03:42:47 PM
Indeed. Lose Harry Maguire and find Soyuncu - who looks a far more accomplished player.

They raked in a bunch from selling Mahrez, Kante, Drinkwater and will do so again this summer when Chilwell likely moves on. Didn’t they pay a small fee for Johnny Evans? He’s been superb for them.

£3.5m FFS, or about as much as Henri Lansbury if you like.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on July 06, 2020, 06:37:22 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on July 06, 2020, 12:48:57 PM

... Think that's what we need to learn for next time. The 4-5 we sign to freshen up and improve the 11 need not just to be standout players in championship but also have the potential to be good players in premier league.
Yeah, I agree with this.
The idea that somehow we can create a squad to get promotion, rebuild for consolidation and then rebuild again for a push on European places (which, IIRC, was the strategy of Purslow's rather large predecessor) always seemed naive and unrealistic.
We have to build a core of players who can win promotion and consolidate first-tier safety. The core needs to have a mix of experience and youthful potential, with a coaching staff that can develop both great teamship and individual growth.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ez on July 06, 2020, 06:42:19 PM
Have to say wolves got it spot on.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on July 06, 2020, 06:51:52 PM
So did Sheffield United.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on July 06, 2020, 08:44:27 PM
Would Wilder be able to emulate his success at a bigger club though? i think he's the ultimate example of a fan manager making good - unlike Dean.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on July 06, 2020, 08:45:49 PM
Quote from: mr underhill on July 06, 2020, 08:44:27 PM
Would Wilder be able to emulate his success at a bigger club though? i think he's the ultimate example of a fan manager making good - unlike Dean.

Probably not. But he's shown that you don't have to rip up your team or style when you get promoted to the Prem.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KevinGage on July 06, 2020, 09:10:24 PM
One thing I will say in defence of Smith is that in that he still appears to have the support of the players despite under par results since the restart.

Defensively we're looking solid and, even if we concede, we don't fold like a pack of cards.

But with Yanited coming next I don't want to be tempting fate on that one. 

It's not enough, but we're not playing like a side just filling out time. Mings, McGinn, Luiz as well as Grealish all know they'll most likely be off should we go down but the first three at least are still playing like it's in the balance and want to stay.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 06, 2020, 10:09:54 PM
Quote from: mr underhill on July 06, 2020, 08:44:27 PM
Would Wilder be able to emulate his success at a bigger club though? i think he's the ultimate example of a fan manager making good - unlike Dean.

Who knows, but he’s done it at all his jobs hasn’t he? i.e. outperformed expectations based on his squad.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 06, 2020, 11:12:46 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on July 06, 2020, 03:20:25 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on July 06, 2020, 12:48:57 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on July 06, 2020, 07:36:32 AM
The “ we will be ok if we go down” is fantasy, we won’t. This squad is not set up too deal with Division 2 and the heart will be ripped out of it.We will end up with some expensive, cant get rid of players which does nothing for squad harmony and togetherness and need to replace many key players.
As well as the psychological blow you have the huge reorganisation required.
We then have the worry concerning our owners appetite.

Same happened last time didn't it? Infact I'd be amazed if anyone was to argue the 2016 squad was better than this one. Yet we came up within three years (could've been two if we'd turned up v Fulham). Also Jordan Ayew was our best attacking player that season and he stayed although ironically he didn't do much in the championship.

How did we bounce back so quickly? Three years really isn't that long when you see Forest, Sheff Weds and Leeds have a combined 57 years out of the top division now.

People forgetting we will be a big fish in small pond again and can actually attract better players than being a premier league struggler. Last time out we signed Chester, Kodjia, Adomah, Jedinak in that first transfer window. All were involved when we won the play off final but for one reason or another couldn't contribute in the premier league.

Think that's what we need to learn for next time. The 4-5 we sign to freshen up and improve the 11 need not just to be standout players in championship but also have the potential to be good players in premier league.
It was 3 years , 2 play offs a winding up petition and a financial rescue. You have no idea what the squad will look like, who the manager will be, our ability to sign better players, how many we will need, how many deadbeats we can get off the books and no idea what our owners will do.
Other than that, it will be a piece of piss.


3 years is nothing when you compare it to Leeds, Forest and Sheff Weds. Sunderland look like they'll be out of premier league for at least a decade, likes of SHA and Blackburn already have been pretty much. Newcastle tend to be the only reasonable big side that tends to always bounce back to the prem at first attempt.

I assume the new owners won't run us into the ground like Xia did and there's some sort of sensible plan on getting relegated. I they're as good as everyone says there are then I don't understand why it would take longer than last time given we did go down in 2016 with a terrible squad and a club that was burning and then had a chancer running the show for two years.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 06, 2020, 11:14:34 PM
Quote from: LeeB on July 06, 2020, 04:51:34 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on July 06, 2020, 03:45:57 PM
Quote from: KevinGage on July 06, 2020, 03:42:47 PM
Indeed. Lose Harry Maguire and find Soyuncu - who looks a far more accomplished player.

They raked in a bunch from selling Mahrez, Kante, Drinkwater and will do so again this summer when Chilwell likely moves on. Didn’t they pay a small fee for Johnny Evans? He’s been superb for them.

£3.5m FFS, or about as much as Henri Lansbury if you like.

30 years old when they signed him. I get the feeling if he'd been available last season we'd have put him in the same category as Cahill given the four CBs we did sign were all 26 or younger.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on July 06, 2020, 11:17:04 PM
They’ve done some bloody good business over the last 8 years haven’t they?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 06, 2020, 11:21:54 PM
Quote from: Ian J on July 06, 2020, 11:17:04 PM
They’ve done some bloody good business over the last 8 years haven’t they?

Not to mention their acquisitions of Vardy and Schmeichel who between them cost around £2m
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on July 06, 2020, 11:28:44 PM
Yep, it’s been consistently superb on their transfer dealings, sold and bought so well. It can’t be a fluke for this long can it?

And then us over the same period (or longer), fucking hell it’s depressing. That’s not a fluke either.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 07, 2020, 12:02:44 AM
They've also bought some right donkeys for big money, £50m on Silva and Slimani for example.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sickbeggar on July 07, 2020, 12:17:52 AM
I'm not against Smith. I thought he's done what was asked for him when it was obvious Bruce was a busted flush. He deserved this season I think on merit. The whole summer rebuild was madness  and hampered him but he had no option. Wrong players bought - certainly. More premier experience needed, definetely. Covid compounded it to my mind - four months off when half the team was new. Rotten luck.

 Not so sure we give him next season though if we go down. On the one hand i think we would be up there next season in the championship if he stayed. On the other hand, i've got increasingly worried about his judgement since we returned. The liverpool game has really bugged me if im honest and the forward situation. If you haven't got a forward worthy of the name then play a midfielder there, or a youth player who knows where the net is.. Anything. Don't just stick a guy with the attacking threat of a rubber sword up front and hope. And then witter on about how many chances we created afterwards. We know. We could be still playing now, have chances in 3 figures and we still wouldn't have scored.  I've got nothing against Davis and i think a lot of his play is rather good, but he's utterly pointless as a forward and the longer Smith plays him, the more doubts i have about him staying next season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brentastonb6 on July 07, 2020, 12:20:26 AM
Quote from: KevinGage on July 06, 2020, 09:10:24 PM
One thing I will say in defence of Smith is that in that he still appears to have the support of the players despite under par results since the restart.

Defensively we're looking solid and, even if we concede, we don't fold like a pack of cards.

But with Yanited coming next I don't want to be tempting fate on that one. 

It's not enough, but we're not playing like a side just filling out time. Mings, McGinn, Luiz as well as Grealish all know they'll most likely be off should we go down but the first three at least are still playing like it's in the balance and want to stay.
Thought the same, 2 nil down Sunday and handful of minutes remaining and I thought the entire team were still working trying to get something. No one blaming anyone else, no finger pointing , just putting a shift in . Please do this in the next five games and we might just pull this off 🙏
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ROBBO on July 07, 2020, 12:39:44 AM
there was a lot of credit in that performance but still believe to survive Smith has to be un-orthodox, the forward set up is not working so time to experiment.
I would instruct Grealish to stay forward with Samatta and have McGinn filling the space behind, United will not play leaving Grealish in a one on one, so will have to drop a player back as cover.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on July 07, 2020, 09:02:28 AM
can it really be that simple?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Big Ming on July 07, 2020, 09:34:08 AM
Heresy, I know, but Tony Pulis (pass the sick bag) on a short-term(big bonus) contract would probably have kept us up, if a timely change had been made.

The football would been dreadful, but we would have had a defence tighter than a duck's arse. We also would have sneaked the odd scrappy one goal. undeserved win.

I would have settled for that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: colin69 on July 07, 2020, 10:25:03 AM
Quote from: sickbeggar on July 07, 2020, 12:17:52 AM
I'm not against Smith. I thought he's done what was asked for him when it was obvious Bruce was a busted flush. He deserved this season I think on merit. The whole summer rebuild was madness  and hampered him but he had no option. Wrong players bought - certainly. More premier experience needed, definetely. Covid compounded it to my mind - four months off when half the team was new. Rotten luck.

 Not so sure we give him next season though if we go down. On the one hand i think we would be up there next season in the championship if he stayed. On the other hand, i've got increasingly worried about his judgement since we returned. The liverpool game has really bugged me if im honest and the forward situation. If you haven't got a forward worthy of the name then play a midfielder there, or a youth player who knows where the net is.. Anything. Don't just stick a guy with the attacking threat of a rubber sword up front and hope. And then witter on about how many chances we created afterwards. We know. We could be still playing now, have chances in 3 figures and we still wouldn't have scored.  I've got nothing against Davis and i think a lot of his play is rather good, but he's utterly pointless as a forward and the longer Smith plays him, the more doubts i have about him staying next season.

Steve Bruce ‘the busted flush’ has Newcastle in a league position I’d love us to be in,
He didn’t quite manage to get us up but he steadied the ship and got us going in the right direction to be fair to him. I don’t think he deserved all the flak he got to be honest.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 07, 2020, 10:38:11 AM
Quote from: colin69 on July 07, 2020, 10:25:03 AM
Quote from: sickbeggar on July 07, 2020, 12:17:52 AM
I'm not against Smith. I thought he's done what was asked for him when it was obvious Bruce was a busted flush. He deserved this season I think on merit. The whole summer rebuild was madness  and hampered him but he had no option. Wrong players bought - certainly. More premier experience needed, definetely. Covid compounded it to my mind - four months off when half the team was new. Rotten luck.

 Not so sure we give him next season though if we go down. On the one hand i think we would be up there next season in the championship if he stayed. On the other hand, i've got increasingly worried about his judgement since we returned. The liverpool game has really bugged me if im honest and the forward situation. If you haven't got a forward worthy of the name then play a midfielder there, or a youth player who knows where the net is.. Anything. Don't just stick a guy with the attacking threat of a rubber sword up front and hope. And then witter on about how many chances we created afterwards. We know. We could be still playing now, have chances in 3 figures and we still wouldn't have scored.  I've got nothing against Davis and i think a lot of his play is rather good, but he's utterly pointless as a forward and the longer Smith plays him, the more doubts i have about him staying next season.

Steve Bruce ‘the busted flush’ has Newcastle in a league position I’d love us to be in,
He didn’t quite manage to get us up but he steadied the ship and got us going in the right direction to be fair to him. I don’t think he deserved all the flak he got to be honest.
I think he got off lightly with his Bank Balance inflated to set himself up with a swansong up Norf.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on July 07, 2020, 11:31:16 AM
he's done well, there is no denying that
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on July 07, 2020, 11:39:14 AM
I agree with Chicago.  Bruce got off lightly.  He has done well, for himself.  The absolute epitome of anti football.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 07, 2020, 11:45:03 AM
The start of last season was atrocious.  The defence we began the season with was an absolute disgrace.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tony scott on July 07, 2020, 11:47:59 AM
Because of our current lack of pace and goal threat, do we have youth team strikers fit and ready if Dean Smith can bring himself to gamble?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on July 07, 2020, 11:50:09 AM
Unfortunately not. Training is for the first team only. No academy provision unless chosen to train with the main squad. Think Vassilev is the only one.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 07, 2020, 12:09:00 PM
Quote from: Legion on July 07, 2020, 11:50:09 AM
Unfortunately not. Training is for the first team only. No academy provision unless chosen to train with the main squad. Think Vassilev is the only one.

I'm not going to comment on Vassilev's performances as he's hardly had any time, but what are his strengths?  Quick, strong, eye for goal, tricky, good in the air?  Any of those?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on July 07, 2020, 12:15:40 PM
Quote from: Risso on July 07, 2020, 11:45:03 AM
The start of last season was atrocious.  The defence we began the season with was an absolute disgrace.

Agreed. People forget so quickly just how bad things were.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on July 07, 2020, 12:20:03 PM
Quote from: Risso on July 07, 2020, 12:09:00 PM
Quote from: Legion on July 07, 2020, 11:50:09 AM
Unfortunately not. Training is for the first team only. No academy provision unless chosen to train with the main squad. Think Vassilev is the only one.

I'm not going to comment on Vassilev's performances as he's hardly had any time, but what are his strengths?  Quick, strong, eye for goal, tricky, good in the air?  Any of those?

I really don't know.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on July 07, 2020, 12:25:04 PM
Quote from: Risso on July 07, 2020, 11:45:03 AM
The start of last season was atrocious.  The defence we began the season with was an absolute disgrace.

100% agreed, he had to go Tom.

Newcastle was the perfect fit for Bruce, backs to the wall situation with little expectation, it where he's always thrived.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on July 07, 2020, 12:27:23 PM
Quote from: Risso on July 07, 2020, 12:09:00 PM
Quote from: Legion on July 07, 2020, 11:50:09 AM
Unfortunately not. Training is for the first team only. No academy provision unless chosen to train with the main squad. Think Vassilev is the only one.

I'm not going to comment on Vassilev's performances as he's hardly had any time, but what are his strengths?  Quick, strong, eye for goal, tricky, good in the air?  Any of those?

His biggest weakness is that he is afraid of Delph.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 07, 2020, 01:53:22 PM
Quote from: Risso on July 07, 2020, 12:09:00 PM
Quote from: Legion on July 07, 2020, 11:50:09 AM
Unfortunately not. Training is for the first team only. No academy provision unless chosen to train with the main squad. Think Vassilev is the only one.

I'm not going to comment on Vassilev's performances as he's hardly had any time, but what are his strengths?  Quick, strong, eye for goal, tricky, good in the air?  Any of those?
He is not Trezeguet :)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on July 07, 2020, 02:06:50 PM
Trezeguet. The Egyptian Tonev.  I'm still amazed he gets to wear a Villa shirt as anything other than a fan.

As for Vassilev, I'm not sure anyone outside the club has seen enough of him to know but from the bits I've seen of him he seems pretty nippy, runs like he's grateful to be there, and generally causes a bit of a nuisance.

Given how utterly toothless we've been up front since the restart I don't know what we've got to lose by playing him. Davis isn't going to score any time soon is he.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on July 07, 2020, 02:14:58 PM
His biggest asset is that his name is not quite Save Villa.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: richtheholtender on July 07, 2020, 02:18:24 PM
Get Alert
Play Vassilev
Save Villa
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on July 07, 2020, 02:26:56 PM
Like it.
You forgot

I, Vassell
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Duncan Shaw on July 07, 2020, 03:49:52 PM
Quote from: LeeB on July 07, 2020, 12:25:04 PM
Quote from: Risso on July 07, 2020, 11:45:03 AM
The start of last season was atrocious.  The defence we began the season with was an absolute disgrace.

100% agreed, he had to go Tom.

Newcastle was the perfect fit for Bruce, backs to the wall situation with little expectation, it where he's always thrived.

It really was - I was watching their game with my step-son in law on Sunday and I said to him, bizarrely, Bruce wouldn't have got us up last year, but having got up we would probably have been better off with him than Deano.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on July 07, 2020, 03:57:11 PM
Quote from: Duncan Shaw on July 07, 2020, 03:49:52 PM
Quote from: LeeB on July 07, 2020, 12:25:04 PM
Quote from: Risso on July 07, 2020, 11:45:03 AM
The start of last season was atrocious.  The defence we began the season with was an absolute disgrace.

100% agreed, he had to go Tom.

Newcastle was the perfect fit for Bruce, backs to the wall situation with little expectation, it where he's always thrived.

It really was - I was watching their game with my step-son in law on Sunday and I said to him, bizarrely, Bruce wouldn't have got us up last year, but having got up we would probably have been better off with him than Deano.

He's the football manager equivalent of a damp-proof course on a house.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: BoVillan esq on July 07, 2020, 04:18:43 PM
Look as if moves are starting to be made, John Terry has been offered the Bristol City job, pretty sure he would have wanted something more attractive than that, on the other hand Terry is probably thinking Smith will be gone very soon, which probably means he will be shown the door, so take whats on offer.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on July 07, 2020, 04:54:09 PM
Terry is indeed a damp proof course (old type) dense, blue, thick, brought in from distant parts, inflexible, unable to cope with creepers.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Duncan Shaw on July 07, 2020, 05:07:11 PM
Quote from: BoVillan esq on July 07, 2020, 04:18:43 PM
Look as if moves are starting to be made, John Terry has been offered the Bristol City job, pretty sure he would have wanted something more attractive than that, on the other hand Terry is probably thinking Smith will be gone very soon, which probably means he will be shown the door, so take whats on offer.
I hope this happens, I really do.  I'm not sure he will be a great manager at all.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 07, 2020, 05:14:27 PM
No idea if Terry going is good or bad news.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sickbeggar on July 07, 2020, 06:12:50 PM
Vassilev cant be any worse. Anyway I thought every midfielder worth his salt is a frustrated striker. Hell, Stick Hourihane as centre forward. He can't be any worse and he's Pele  in front of goal compared to Davis.  Anything is better than going into these last games toothless upfront and getting relegated with a whimper.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on July 07, 2020, 06:15:48 PM
I can't think of much worse than Hourihane up front. I'd fancy my chances at centre half against him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 07, 2020, 06:18:39 PM
Quote from: sickbeggar on July 07, 2020, 06:12:50 PM
Vassilev cant be any worse. Anyway I thought every midfielder worth his salt is a frustrated striker. Hell, Stick Hourihane as centre forward. He can't be any worse and he's Pele  in front of goal compared to Davis.  Anything is better than going into these last games toothless upfront and getting relegated with a whimper.

Ya see though, we keep saying this, but time after time we get proven wrong!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 07, 2020, 06:21:34 PM
It’s shit that on Thursday, Man U will field Rashford and Greenwood from their youth system. We have Davis and Vassilev. The gap in quality of products coming out of our system vs the likes of Man U or Chelsea is frightening.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sickbeggar on July 07, 2020, 06:22:30 PM
Quote from: Ad@m on July 07, 2020, 06:15:48 PM
I can't think of much worse than Hourihane up front. I'd fancy my chances at centre half against him.

Suit yourself but he does score occasionally. Anyone expecting the present incumbents up front to score again this season?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sickbeggar on July 07, 2020, 06:24:13 PM
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on July 07, 2020, 06:18:39 PM
Quote from: sickbeggar on July 07, 2020, 06:12:50 PM
Vassilev cant be any worse. Anyway I thought every midfielder worth his salt is a frustrated striker. Hell, Stick Hourihane as centre forward. He can't be any worse and he's Pele  in front of goal compared to Davis.  Anything is better than going into these last games toothless upfront and getting relegated with a whimper.

Ya see though, we keep saying this, but time after time we get proven wrong!


How can you be worse than a striker who can't score. He can only be just as useless...
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on July 07, 2020, 06:24:14 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on July 07, 2020, 06:21:34 PM
It’s shit that on Thursday, Man U will field Rashford and Greenwood from their youth system. We have Davis and Vassilev. The gap in quality of products coming out of our system vs the likes of Man U or Chelsea is frightening.

You can't really say Vassilev is a product of our academy system, though. He only joined in 2018.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 07, 2020, 06:24:20 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on July 07, 2020, 06:21:34 PM
It’s shit that on Thursday, Man U will field Rashford and Greenwood from their youth system. We have Davis and Vassilev. The gap in quality of products coming out of our system vs the likes of Man U or Chelsea is frightening.

In fairness, you have excluded our best homegrown player. One who, by all accounts, they are desperate to sign.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 07, 2020, 06:34:03 PM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on July 07, 2020, 06:24:20 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on July 07, 2020, 06:21:34 PM
It’s shit that on Thursday, Man U will field Rashford and Greenwood from their youth system. We have Davis and Vassilev. The gap in quality of products coming out of our system vs the likes of Man U or Chelsea is frightening.

In fairness, you have excluded our best homegrown player. One who, by all accounts, they are desperate to sign.

I haven't really. Jack is taken for granted now given he's 24 and is the only product we have produced that has gone on to be anything like we hoped for playing us, and not someone else. Man U have two forwards that are just banging in the goals so my comment was more specifically around comparing us vs them in that position. Outside of Jack have we produced anyone of really note in the past 10 years? And we've had one paper some very decent youth players who have all ended up in the lower divisions. The best being Albrighton and after that Bannan I suppose. Even Cahill left us over 12 years ago now. Who am I missing?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on July 07, 2020, 06:35:07 PM
Barry?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 07, 2020, 06:35:09 PM
Quote from: Legion on July 07, 2020, 06:24:14 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on July 07, 2020, 06:21:34 PM
It’s shit that on Thursday, Man U will field Rashford and Greenwood from their youth system. We have Davis and Vassilev. The gap in quality of products coming out of our system vs the likes of Man U or Chelsea is frightening.

You can't really say Vassilev is a product of our academy system, though. He only joined in 2018.

yeh true. He joined from that US academy
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 07, 2020, 06:36:06 PM
Quote from: Legion on July 07, 2020, 06:35:07 PM
Barry?

He made his debut for us in 1998. That's 23 bloody years ago.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Martin Carruthers on July 07, 2020, 06:36:28 PM
Steven Davis has had a decent career. Going back a few years though.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on July 07, 2020, 06:47:37 PM
Quote from: Martin Carruthers on July 07, 2020, 06:36:28 PM
Steven Davis has had a decent career. Going back a few years though.

Not bad for somebody that has the same number of international caps as Rivelino yet never played for a decent club after leaving the Villa.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 07, 2020, 07:34:49 PM
Can't help but think Smith has got off lightly with games behind closed doors because Villa Park would have turned on him by now without a shadow of doubt.
How he's kept his job is beyond me, that 4 year deal was idiotic.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 07, 2020, 07:38:22 PM
Yeah I’m sorry but we’re going down with a whimper, in yet another sequence of terrible results. There may be other reasons for our impending demise, but it’s impossible to argue Smith has done an acceptable job this year. He has to go.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ez on July 07, 2020, 07:42:23 PM
I was talking to a blues fan at work today. He asked me, how come Dean Smith is still there, followed by, I'm glad he is though, of course.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan82 on July 07, 2020, 08:06:42 PM
Quote from: Jon Crofts on July 07, 2020, 07:34:49 PM
Can't help but think Smith has got off lightly with games behind closed doors because Villa Park would have turned on him by now without a shadow of doubt.
How he's kept his job is beyond me, that 4 year deal was idiotic.

Heads, deliberately using the plural, need to roll. How did they think this season was panning out in an acceptable way?

Shitshow.

Just watch Leeds gain promotion and make a right go of it next year, unlike our feeble attempt.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on July 07, 2020, 08:17:11 PM
yep another day of bitterness, anger and doubt. The 4 year deal was stupidity with hundreds and thousands sprinkled on top.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on July 07, 2020, 08:22:00 PM
Quote from: mr underhill on July 07, 2020, 08:17:11 PM
yep another day of bitterness, anger and doubt. The 4 year deal was stupidity with hundreds and thousands sprinkled on top.

I'm not too sure how much difference the contract he signed makes.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 07, 2020, 08:23:47 PM
Quote from: Clampy on July 07, 2020, 08:22:00 PM
Quote from: mr underhill on July 07, 2020, 08:17:11 PM
yep another day of bitterness, anger and doubt. The 4 year deal was stupidity with hundreds and thousands sprinkled on top.

I'm not too sure how much difference the contract he signed makes.

It just means we'll either squander more millions paying him off or have to suffer this shit for 3 more years, personally I'd blow the cash.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on July 07, 2020, 09:31:04 PM
Smith is clueless. Out of his depth. Got lucky last season. Totally lost the plot this one. I really wanted everything to work out for him and us but it has all gone pear-shaped. Not much has gone right for us this season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 07, 2020, 09:31:52 PM
I'd be amazed if there wasn't some relegation clause in the deal e.g. we pay him a bit less in severance if we go down.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 07, 2020, 09:33:13 PM
Quote from: Clampy on July 07, 2020, 08:22:00 PM
Quote from: mr underhill on July 07, 2020, 08:17:11 PM
yep another day of bitterness, anger and doubt. The 4 year deal was stupidity with hundreds and thousands sprinkled on top.

I'm not too sure how much difference the contract he signed makes.
and no one knows what is in the contract, there could be all sorts of performance related clauses and limitations.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: wince on July 08, 2020, 01:17:27 AM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on July 07, 2020, 06:36:06 PM
Quote from: Legion on July 07, 2020, 06:35:07 PM
Barry?

He made his debut for us in 1998. That's 23 bloody years ago.

22 years. If not, do we escape relegation doc brown?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 08, 2020, 02:16:10 AM
Quote from: wince on July 08, 2020, 01:17:27 AM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on July 07, 2020, 06:36:06 PM
Quote from: Legion on July 07, 2020, 06:35:07 PM
Barry?

He made his debut for us in 1998. That's 23 bloody years ago.

22 years. If not, do we escape relegation doc brown?

No, and worse to come. Edens ends up in a bar fight with the Sawari’s after the final whistle at West Ham. Didn’t see it but a chair and a mirror are involved. Suffice it say, they break up, we get sold to the same blokes who just took over Wigan. We find Jack has a clause for £25m which starts a bidding war and he fucks off to Man City. McGinn posts a middle finger on Twitter and ends up at Palace. Mings is seen catching a train to Merseyside in full Everton kit. And Douglas Luiz hasn’t been seen since. Dean Smith is given a new 5 year deal and his first move is to tie down Drinkwater to a long term contract pointing to his great performances in training.

The North Stand is partially knocked down before money runs out. So it’s just rubble. Oh and the Sty gets hit by meteor and now both Coventry and the filth have to play at what’s left of Villa Park.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT on July 08, 2020, 07:11:12 AM
Quote from: Legion on July 07, 2020, 09:31:04 PM
Smith is clueless. Out of his depth. Got lucky last season. Totally lost the plot this one. I really wanted everything to work out for him and us but it has all gone pear-shaped. Not much has gone right for us this season.

Ten game winning run, through the play offs, wins at Wembley.

But he “got lucky”.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on July 08, 2020, 07:18:02 AM
He did. The return of Grealish after the previous set of results was pivotal.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ozzjim on July 08, 2020, 07:34:49 AM
I don't think he's clueless. The way he's tightened up at the back post lock down shows how much he's worked on team shape, but learning on the job with a squad not used to the prem is a really tough ask. Then to have massive injuries, a huge amount of harsh luck with VAR and this lock down to contend with, the whole 5 subs thing etc, I think it's been a very, very tough gig this season.

Do I think he could bring us straight back.... Not sure. Would I prefer Dyche to come in? Yes.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on July 08, 2020, 07:38:10 AM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on July 07, 2020, 06:21:34 PM
It’s shit that on Thursday, Man U will field Rashford and Greenwood from their youth system. We have Davis and Vassilev. The gap in quality of products coming out of our system vs the likes of Man U or Chelsea is frightening.

The general feeling is that over the years both Albion and Wolves overtook us the most attractive destinations in the Midlands for young players, we are on the way to starting to reverse that, in some ways by pinching 8 of Albions staff.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on July 08, 2020, 07:43:31 AM
Quote from: CT on July 08, 2020, 07:11:12 AM
Quote from: Legion on July 07, 2020, 09:31:04 PM
Smith is clueless. Out of his depth. Got lucky last season. Totally lost the plot this one. I really wanted everything to work out for him and us but it has all gone pear-shaped. Not much has gone right for us this season.

Ten game winning run, through the play offs, wins at Wembley.

But he “got lucky”.

Mings coming in January and Jack back helped him, plus having probably the best team / squad in the league.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on July 08, 2020, 08:15:39 AM
TV, seriously, I find your dystopian oracle gazing oddly comforting.  You missed out the Holte Upper tier being closed and Bodymoor Heath being used for thrice weekly car boot sales but the nightmare you describe at least defines where the end of this road could be.  Anything less terrifying can be seen as a turning of a corner and something to hope for.  Let's face it Hope is about all we have these days.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on July 08, 2020, 08:19:48 AM
Hope over reality is what defines football fans.
If we beat ManUre tomorrow - unlikely though it might be - there will be a tsunami-rush of hope here, taking us way beyond the reality of the next game.
Life's a rollercoaster, man!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 08, 2020, 08:30:37 AM
Unlikely being the word there.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on July 08, 2020, 08:49:34 AM
As you get older reality gets a tighter grip.  The ups and down become flatter because you are more than ever aware that a down follows every up and an up follows a down.  You need two things to complete the ride, the fare and a pulse.  I have both, but only just.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ozzjim on July 08, 2020, 09:09:19 AM
Quote from: brian green on July 08, 2020, 08:49:34 AM
As you get older reality gets a tighter grip.  The ups and down become flatter because you are more than ever aware that a down follows every up and an up follows a down.  You need two things to complete the ride, the fare and a pulse.  I have both, but only just.
So true. Although my flat is a much more disappointing level than it once aspired to be where Villa is concerned. I wrote a piece once on here about the importance of villa. I don't think I'd recognise that anymore such is the regular beating the last 10 years of supporting the club has given my fragile flatline.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OzVilla on July 08, 2020, 09:09:42 AM
Comparisons with Lambert are unfair. Smith has been naive and in my opinion we should be doing better with this squad but Lambert was on another level when it came to incomprehensible incompetence.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OzVilla on July 08, 2020, 09:11:10 AM
That’s a nice way of putting it Brian.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ASHTONVILLA on July 08, 2020, 09:44:10 AM
Quote from: OzVilla on July 08, 2020, 09:09:42 AM
Comparisons with Lambert are unfair. Smith has been naive and in my opinion we should be doing better with this squad but Lambert was on another level when it came to incomprehensible incompetence.

Not sure I agree with that. Lambert did better at Norwich and Colchester than Smith did at Brentford and Walsall.

At no point could Lambert call on a player as talented as Grealish, and he was in a tougher league having to slowly replace the squad with cheap punts circling the bowl closer each season.

Smith had the best squad in a shit league and could throw money at it, plus Grealish and Tammy.

Neither were much good and will be hoping for better next time.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on July 08, 2020, 09:49:18 AM
I dislike Lambert intensely but he hog tied himself trying to please Randy Lerner who I think, respectfully, should have never come into football.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on July 08, 2020, 09:51:04 AM
Give over. Lambert, bar a brief run in December 2012 brought fuck all but misery. Utter shite.

12 games without a win
Parading his coaching tour to Barca and bringing us the pass back from a goal kick
Getting done 8
Getting done over two legs by a 4th division outfit

When you make Sherwood look like a breath of fresh air, you know you're utter bollocks.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on July 08, 2020, 09:53:56 AM
managers are the most important appointment at any club

look at Leeds 16 years in the championship with a list as long as your arm of failed mainly British managers

then they finally go out and get Bielsa a top coach, the risk assessment being he was a maverick and unpredictable but who's manager and coaching skills were solid

up in two years
first year play offs second year promoted (i'm taking it for granted now)

so Smith got us up in his first year, so whats the difference between them and us
Leeds now go into the Premier league with a man who wouldn't look out of pace at some of the top clubs in Europe,
easy to say they will come straight back down in the same way we say Leeds always blow it at the end of the season forgetting they have Bielsa now, he actually knows what he's doing at this level

where as we look like going down and there's talk of Sean Dyche or Big Sam

and that's your problem right there, more of the same will never work long term
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on July 08, 2020, 09:59:54 AM
Bielsa might get Leeds up in two years. Smith did it in less than one season and with the poorest excuse for a defence at the start of his time that we've had in my lifetime.

Dyche has kept a Burnley side up and got them into Europe. Look at their squad, look at their midfield. Why rubbish his achievements which are far greater in the Premier League than Bielsa, who so far, has not managed a single game in the top flight of English football.

Thats your problem there. Assuming that being forrin rather than from iNguRlaNd is a prerequisite for success.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mattjpa on July 08, 2020, 10:02:36 AM
getting older, the weekend-crushing Villa defeats have morphed into 10minutes of anger/disappointment followed usually by the decision to not watch any more football all weekend. I cant decide whether its due to a life priority shift and availing years or whether 10 years of this non-stop shit show have numbed me to the point of caring less.
I take a massive amount of comfort in the fact that the most I have enjoyed football since the early MON years was our final season in the championship. Loved the team, the football, the ethos at the club, the management. We are likely down, when it happens it will tell us a lot about our new owners but I would hope the fact that we have tasted it once would stand us in better stead to regain some of that. I would probably keep Smith based on that alone
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on July 08, 2020, 10:12:26 AM
Chris Wilder - British manager - has already done what I suspect Bielsa will do: promote a squad of players and have them playing fast, aggressive and mid-table Premier League football in their first season in the EPL.
For me, it's about the sustainable building of a squad of players who play for each other, are super-fit, use the ball effectively and are committed to a vision that the manager has articulated and 'sold' to them; seeking to improve incrementally the overall squad quality every time the transfer market opens.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on July 08, 2020, 10:15:14 AM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on July 07, 2020, 06:21:34 PM
It’s shit that on Thursday, Man U will field Rashford and Greenwood from their youth system. We have Davis and Vassilev. The gap in quality of products coming out of our system vs the likes of Man U or Chelsea is frightening.
And this is despite the club making big claims about the plans  for our academy becoming one of "the best in Europe" We continue to lose our most promising talents to Man City/Chelsea etc. It really is starting to look like someone has fell asleep at the wheel.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Big Ming on July 08, 2020, 10:19:24 AM
When relegation is confirmed, there will be many understandably calling for Smith's head, but a new management team will mean spaffing yet more compo up the wall and starting from scratch all over again.

Probably better to sort out which players are going and which are staying, which can step up from the U23's and just make a few key signings to make sure we can bounce straight back up.

Money should be no problem with income from sales and parachute payments.

Smith's a Championship manager. Might as well give him another chance in the Championship.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on July 08, 2020, 10:19:40 AM
I've no idea if Belisa will be any good in the Prem next season (if they get there) but let's not forget his team are currently only three points in front of Brentford and last season he had to resort to having other team's training sessions spied on.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on July 08, 2020, 10:32:59 AM
I’ll hear a lot of things said about Dean Smith but being compared unfavourably to Lambert is the time I need to step off the bus.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 08, 2020, 10:33:57 AM
Quote from: Big Ming on July 08, 2020, 10:19:24 AM
When relegation is confirmed, there will be many understandably calling for Smith's head, but a new management team will mean spaffing yet more compo up the wall and starting from scratch all over again.

Probably better to sort out which players are going and which are staying, which can step up from the U23's and just make a few key signings to make sure we can bounce straight back up.

Money should be no problem with income from sales and parachute payments.

Smith's a Championship manager. Might as well give him another chance in the Championship.

Do that and we'll forever stay a Championship team.  The bloke has been found out, big time.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chris Smith on July 08, 2020, 10:40:33 AM
Quote from: Mister E on July 08, 2020, 10:12:26 AM
Chris Wilder - British manager - has already done what I suspect Bielsa will do: promote a squad of players and have them playing fast, aggressive and mid-table Premier League football in their first season in the EPL.
For me, it's about the sustainable building of a squad of players who play for each other, are super-fit, use the ball effectively and are committed to a vision that the manager has articulated and 'sold' to them; seeking to improve incrementally the overall squad quality every time the transfer market opens.

I agree but that requires a level of stability that we haven’t had in years and will be a step further away if, as seems likely, we change the manager again this year.

The profile of candidate we can attract if we are relegated will obviously change but a commitment to a long term vision rather than a quick fix to appease impatient fans should be a prerequisite to any appointment.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ez on July 08, 2020, 10:42:37 AM
If we're looking long term then Smith isn't the man for us because hes not premier league.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on July 08, 2020, 10:42:45 AM
Quote from: Chris Smith on July 08, 2020, 10:40:33 AM
Quote from: Mister E on July 08, 2020, 10:12:26 AM
Chris Wilder - British manager - has already done what I suspect Bielsa will do: promote a squad of players and have them playing fast, aggressive and mid-table Premier League football in their first season in the EPL.
For me, it's about the sustainable building of a squad of players who play for each other, are super-fit, use the ball effectively and are committed to a vision that the manager has articulated and 'sold' to them; seeking to improve incrementally the overall squad quality every time the transfer market opens.

I agree but that requires a level of stability that we haven’t had in years and will be a step further away if, as seems likely, we change the manager again this year.

The profile of candidate we can attract if we are relegated will obviously change but a commitment to a long term vision rather than a quick fix to appease impatient fans should be a prerequisite to any appointment.
Agreed, Chris; and - I think - the owners saw Smith as the executor of their long-term vision.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on July 08, 2020, 10:44:17 AM
If relegation is confirmed. Best to carry out the post mortem when the patient is dead. Ethics and mixed metaphors but we ain't fucking down yet, not matter how many circles of despair folks want to run down.

Its likely, its a strong possibility, its right to hypothesise, ponder, plan, but it is not over.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on July 08, 2020, 10:47:40 AM
Quote from: The Edge on July 08, 2020, 10:15:14 AM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on July 07, 2020, 06:21:34 PM
It’s shit that on Thursday, Man U will field Rashford and Greenwood from their youth system. We have Davis and Vassilev. The gap in quality of products coming out of our system vs the likes of Man U or Chelsea is frightening.
And this is despite the club making big claims about the plans  for our academy becoming one of "the best in Europe" We continue to lose our most promising talents to Man City/Chelsea etc. .

Have we?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on July 08, 2020, 10:49:43 AM
last player to Man City was sold 5 years ago.

The one before that was 10 years ago.

I cannot recall who we've sold to Chelsea, ever.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Allan C on July 08, 2020, 10:50:22 AM
Quote from: ASHTONVILLA on July 08, 2020, 09:44:10 AM
Quote from: OzVilla on July 08, 2020, 09:09:42 AM
Comparisons with Lambert are unfair. Smith has been naive and in my opinion we should be doing better with this squad but Lambert was on another level when it came to incomprehensible incompetence.

Not sure I agree with that. Lambert did better at Norwich and Colchester than Smith did at Brentford and Walsall.

At no point could Lambert call on a player as talented as Grealish, and he was in a tougher league having to slowly replace the squad with cheap punts circling the bowl closer each season.

Smith had the best squad in a shit league and could throw money at it, plus Grealish and Tammy.

Neither were much good and will be hoping for better next time.
Very good points
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on July 08, 2020, 10:52:30 AM
Quote from: Ads on July 08, 2020, 10:49:43 AM

I cannot recall who we've sold to Chelsea, ever.

Tony Dorigo?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 08, 2020, 10:53:31 AM
I reckon Barry Fry could coach a team with Jack, McGinn, Mings and Tammy to a play off spot in the Championship.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on July 08, 2020, 10:53:56 AM
Quote from: Risso on July 08, 2020, 10:53:31 AM
I reckon Barry Fry could coach a team with Jack, McGinn, Mings and Tammy to a play off spot in the Championship.

Bruce couldn't.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 08, 2020, 10:55:19 AM
Quote from: Allan C on July 08, 2020, 10:50:22 AM
Quote from: ASHTONVILLA on July 08, 2020, 09:44:10 AM
Quote from: OzVilla on July 08, 2020, 09:09:42 AM
Comparisons with Lambert are unfair. Smith has been naive and in my opinion we should be doing better with this squad but Lambert was on another level when it came to incomprehensible incompetence.

Not sure I agree with that. Lambert did better at Norwich and Colchester than Smith did at Brentford and Walsall.

At no point could Lambert call on a player as talented as Grealish, and he was in a tougher league having to slowly replace the squad with cheap punts circling the bowl closer each season.

Smith had the best squad in a shit league and could throw money at it, plus Grealish and Tammy.

Neither were much good and will be hoping for better next time.
Very good points

Except ignoring that Lambert had Benteke, the fact that we had to replace virtually an entire squad in less than three months on limited funds and if you're saying it was only Grealish's return that got us promoted you should add that losing Wesley, Heaton and McGinn long-term were also factors this season. That's without the changed rules since restart that have hampered clubs such as our disproportionately.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SteveN on July 08, 2020, 10:58:42 AM
Quote from: Chico Hamilton III on July 08, 2020, 10:52:30 AM
Quote from: Ads on July 08, 2020, 10:49:43 AM

I cannot recall who we've sold to Chelsea, ever.

Tony Dorigo?

Tony Hateley
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 08, 2020, 10:59:26 AM
Lambert didn't just "have" Benteke, he found and signed him, and coached him to be a success.  About the only good thing he did in his time here, apart from just about manage to keep us up.  Smith has been an unmitigated failure this year.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on July 08, 2020, 11:03:58 AM
I don't know how you draw that conclusion before the season has concluded.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on July 08, 2020, 11:04:42 AM
In absolute terms Ads it is over.  We are a club that will go down or we are a club that will survive by the thinnest skin of its teeth.  I regard either of those scenarios as unacceptable given the time and money that has been wasted at the club for the last ten years.  This season has been a failure with a capital F for a host of reasons.  The only reason for any Villa fan to be happy when the next five games have been played is because we have become resigned to mediocrity.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on July 08, 2020, 11:08:26 AM
Your first sentence is completely wrong though. Its not over, by any means. You think we're going down, everybody is very worried and thinks its a strong possibility. But its not over at all.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 08, 2020, 11:10:35 AM
It's not certain that Norwich are down either, but you can get 1,000/1 on them staying up. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on July 08, 2020, 11:12:53 AM
They're 10 points adrift, have been bottom since we beat them on Boxing Day, 15 goals adrift and will be relegated if they do not win their next game. What's that got to do with us?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan82 on July 08, 2020, 11:23:31 AM
Quote from: Ads on July 08, 2020, 09:59:54 AM
Bielsa might get Leeds up in two years. Smith did it in less than one season and with the poorest excuse for a defence at the start of his time that we've had in my lifetime.

Dyche has kept a Burnley side up and got them into Europe. Look at their squad, look at their midfield. Why rubbish his achievements which are far greater in the Premier League than Bielsa, who so far, has not managed a single game in the top flight of English football.

Thats your problem there. Assuming that being forrin rather than from iNguRlaNd is a prerequisite for success.

What nonsense. Utter nonsense.

Somebody got out the wrong side of the bed.

The season has been a dreadful struggle. Points pissed up the wall in the first half of the season. A monumental waste.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on July 08, 2020, 11:31:53 AM
Ads is sticking to his guns: the glass is half full... of whatever mad tonic he takes every morning to come on here and spew unbridled optimism in the face of all apparent probability factors until it's time for bed again
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on July 08, 2020, 11:34:36 AM
Quote from: Villan82 on July 08, 2020, 11:23:31 AM
Quote from: Ads on July 08, 2020, 09:59:54 AM
Bielsa might get Leeds up in two years. Smith did it in less than one season and with the poorest excuse for a defence at the start of his time that we've had in my lifetime.

Dyche has kept a Burnley side up and got them into Europe. Look at their squad, look at their midfield. Why rubbish his achievements which are far greater in the Premier League than Bielsa, who so far, has not managed a single game in the top flight of English football.

Thats your problem there. Assuming that being forrin rather than from iNguRlaNd is a prerequisite for success.

What nonsense. Utter nonsense.

Somebody got out the wrong side of the bed.

The season has been a dreadful struggle. Points pissed up the wall in the first half of the season. A monumental waste.

Oh thats me told.

Nonsense is disregarding English managers achievements like Dyche or Wilder "because its more of the same" or Fat Sam, who keeps clubs up. You can take your pick over styles of football; but all 3 regular achieve success relative to their aims. In the same breath ignoring Bielsa and what he's actually done in English football club compared to what he might. For avoidance of doubt, he took Leeds from top after beating us at Christmas, to watching us get promoted on the tele in May.

Of course this season has been a struggle. I hoped for 11th  feared 2015/16 cannon fodder, would be happy to stay up. And we still might which will be job jobbed.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on July 08, 2020, 11:36:22 AM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on July 08, 2020, 11:31:53 AM
Ads is sticking to his guns: the glass is half full... of whatever mad tonic he takes every morning to come on here and spew unbridled optimism in the face of all apparent probability factors until it's time for bed again

I wake up every day and think "what would Nigel Reo-Coker do?". And I think "probably over hit a pass or shank it over the bar" as he was shite.

Then I log on here and give my opinion and I try not to be a massive whopper and label those who think otherwise as mad.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on July 08, 2020, 11:43:35 AM
Quote from: Ads on July 08, 2020, 11:36:22 AM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on July 08, 2020, 11:31:53 AM
Ads is sticking to his guns: the glass is half full... of whatever mad tonic he takes every morning to come on here and spew unbridled optimism in the face of all apparent probability factors until it's time for bed again

I wake up every day and think "what would Nigel Reo-Coker do?". And I think "probably over hit a pass or shank it over the bar" as he was shite.

Then I log on here and give my opinion and I try not to be a massive whopper and label those who think otherwise as mad.

And yet you'll defend the current shower of shite until kingdom come, or we get relegated and they all leave - whichever happens first. (Hint: it's the latter)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on July 08, 2020, 11:47:24 AM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on July 08, 2020, 11:43:35 AM
Quote from: Ads on July 08, 2020, 11:36:22 AM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on July 08, 2020, 11:31:53 AM
Ads is sticking to his guns: the glass is half full... of whatever mad tonic he takes every morning to come on here and spew unbridled optimism in the face of all apparent probability factors until it's time for bed again

I wake up every day and think "what would Nigel Reo-Coker do?". And I think "probably over hit a pass or shank it over the bar" as he was shite.

Then I log on here and give my opinion and I try not to be a massive whopper and label those who think otherwise as mad.

And yet you'll defend the current shower of shite until kingdom come, or we get relegated and they all leave - whichever happens first. (Hint: it's the latter)

Ok. Fundamentally disagree, that appears to really upset or irritate you. Leave it there unless there's anything constructive to discuss.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on July 08, 2020, 11:49:04 AM
Quote from: Ads on July 08, 2020, 11:08:26 AM
Your first sentence is completely wrong though. Its not over, by any means. You think we're going down, everybody is very worried and thinks its a strong possibility. But its not over at all.

But people don't 'think' it's a strong possibility, it is a strong possibility. Let's leave opinion out of it and discuss likelihood. You can be as optimistic as you like, but based on the available facts, we are more likely to go down than we are to stay up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on July 08, 2020, 11:52:27 AM
Ads, I admire your optimism and of course, it isn't over just yet.  However, that fat lady is very definitely clearing her throat and about to gargle with Evian and start practising her warble.   I am still really surprised that Purslow and/or the owners haven't said a dickie bird.  I am aware that the end of the season is the time to reflect, but we also need plans drawing up in case of the inevitable.  I hope that they are preparing in the background for all eventualities.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on July 08, 2020, 11:52:52 AM
I'm not sure what part of "everybody (which includes me) thinks it (relegation) is a strong possibility" is so problematic for you.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on July 08, 2020, 11:55:46 AM
Fair enough then; I read it differently and thought you were implying 'everybody' (else) was wrong to be so pessimistic.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Hillbilly on July 08, 2020, 11:58:09 AM
Quote from: Ads on July 08, 2020, 11:08:26 AM
Your first sentence is completely wrong though. Its not over, by any means. You think we're going down, everybody is very worried and thinks its a strong possibility. But its not over at all.
We have 2 points from our last 8 matches. We are 4 points behind Watford with 5 left. We’ve beaten Arsenal once in a decade and Man U once this century. It’s over.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on July 08, 2020, 12:06:05 PM
Quote from: Hillbilly on July 08, 2020, 11:58:09 AM
Quote from: Ads on July 08, 2020, 11:08:26 AM
Your first sentence is completely wrong though. Its not over, by any means. You think we're going down, everybody is very worried and thinks its a strong possibility. But its not over at all.
We have 2 points from our last 8 matches. We are 4 points behind Watford with 5 left. We’ve beaten Arsenal once in a decade and Man U once this century. It’s over.

Fair enough, you've given up. That's your call, I just don't agree.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Hillbilly on July 08, 2020, 12:22:33 PM
Quote from: Ads on July 08, 2020, 12:06:05 PM
Quote from: Hillbilly on July 08, 2020, 11:58:09 AM
Quote from: Ads on July 08, 2020, 11:08:26 AM
Your first sentence is completely wrong though. Its not over, by any means. You think we're going down, everybody is very worried and thinks its a strong possibility. But its not over at all.
We have 2 points from our last 8 matches. We are 4 points behind Watford with 5 left. We’ve beaten Arsenal once in a decade and Man U once this century. It’s over.

Fair enough, you've given up. That's your call, I just don't agree.
Nothing to give up because I have literally no influence over the outcome one way or the other.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 08, 2020, 12:27:22 PM
Quote from: Hillbilly on July 08, 2020, 12:22:33 PM
Quote from: Ads on July 08, 2020, 12:06:05 PM
Quote from: Hillbilly on July 08, 2020, 11:58:09 AM
Quote from: Ads on July 08, 2020, 11:08:26 AM
Your first sentence is completely wrong though. Its not over, by any means. You think we're going down, everybody is very worried and thinks its a strong possibility. But its not over at all.
We have 2 points from our last 8 matches. We are 4 points behind Watford with 5 left. We’ve beaten Arsenal once in a decade and Man U once this century. It’s over.

Fair enough, you've given up. That's your call, I just don't agree.
Nothing to give up because I have literally no influence over the outcome one way or the other.
Exactly.  'Giving up' has nothing to do with it.  It's just speculating where we'll end up.  Some say down, some say stay up.  Although I would say what we've learned from the season so far suggests staying up is unlikely.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on July 08, 2020, 12:28:18 PM
You've given up any belief you had that we could stay up. You're amongst company, that's everybody's prerogative.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on July 08, 2020, 12:36:03 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on July 08, 2020, 12:27:22 PM
Quote from: Hillbilly on July 08, 2020, 12:22:33 PM
Quote from: Ads on July 08, 2020, 12:06:05 PM
Quote from: Hillbilly on July 08, 2020, 11:58:09 AM
Quote from: Ads on July 08, 2020, 11:08:26 AM
Your first sentence is completely wrong though. Its not over, by any means. You think we're going down, everybody is very worried and thinks its a strong possibility. But its not over at all.
We have 2 points from our last 8 matches. We are 4 points behind Watford with 5 left. We’ve beaten Arsenal once in a decade and Man U once this century. It’s over.

Fair enough, you've given up. That's your call, I just don't agree.
Nothing to give up because I have literally no influence over the outcome one way or the other.
Exactly.  'Giving up' has nothing to do with it.  It's just speculating where we'll end up.  Some say down, some say stay up.  Although I would say what we've learned from the season so far suggests staying up is unlikely.

I don't agree.

People saying we're down, its over, we're relegated, we've failed arent speculating- they're dealing in absolutes.

The only fact is, that it is self evidently not over. There is a chance and we can ruminate over that chance and what stats or intangibles and so on influence an opinion one way or the other.

But over it is not. I desperately hope that more people change their mind at 10pm on Thursday and I'm sure everybody hopes to be convinced otherwise too.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Bobby Boy on July 08, 2020, 12:40:13 PM
Quote from: Ads on July 08, 2020, 12:06:05 PM
n
Quote from: Hillbilly on July 08, 2020, 11:58:09 AM
Quote from: Ads on July 08, 2020, 11:08:26 AM
Your first sentence is completely wrong though. Its not over, by any means. You think we're going down, everybody is very worried and thinks its a strong possibility. But its not over at all.
We have 2 points from our last 8 matches. We are 4 points behind Watford with 5 left. We’ve beaten Arsenal once in a decade and Man U once this century. It’s over.

Fair enough, you've given up. That's your call, I just don't agree.

And round and round it goes. The beauty of a forum of ideas in a nutshell.

2 points out of 27....it doesn't bode well does it?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on July 08, 2020, 12:46:16 PM
It is indeed! All about opinions and arseholes.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on July 08, 2020, 12:46:42 PM
The thing is, the people on here who are saying 'we' re down,  its over, we're shit,the fat lady has already sang' etc will be the first on here being angry if we lose on Thursday.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 08, 2020, 12:49:25 PM
Quote from: Clampy on July 08, 2020, 12:46:42 PM
The thing is, the people on here who are saying 'we' re down,  its over, we're shit,the fat lady has already sang' etc will be the first on here being angry if we lose on Thursday.
So what?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on July 08, 2020, 12:52:31 PM
I think we'll lose on Thursday and still can stay up. Splitter me.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on July 08, 2020, 12:55:28 PM
i think we are not going to win another game this season and that we will be relegated. But so what? It won't materially alter my life one iota.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on July 08, 2020, 12:55:59 PM
Quote from: Clampy on July 08, 2020, 12:46:42 PM
The thing is, the people on here who are saying 'we' re down,  its over, we're shit,the fat lady has already sang' etc will be the first on here being angry if we lose on Thursday.

It's the same posters, year after year, manager after manager, bad run after bad run.

I think we're up the creek, but it's not over, and one surprise result and the whole picture changes. I did laugh this morning though when it seemed reading this thread that Smith had become a worse manager because Watford beat Norwich.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 08, 2020, 12:56:33 PM
Quote from: Ads on July 08, 2020, 12:52:31 PM
I think we'll lose on Thursday and still can stay up. Splitter me.

Me too. Something would be nice, but it's not imperative.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on July 08, 2020, 01:00:01 PM
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on July 08, 2020, 12:56:33 PM
Quote from: Ads on July 08, 2020, 12:52:31 PM
I think we'll lose on Thursday and still can stay up. Splitter me.

Me too. Something would be nice, but it's not imperative.

Something would be very nice indeed. Odious bag of cocks that they are. Plus lessens the likelihood of Grealish leaving for them if we help feck their Champions League aspirations en route to survival.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on July 08, 2020, 01:03:45 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on July 08, 2020, 12:49:25 PM
Quote from: Clampy on July 08, 2020, 12:46:42 PM
The thing is, the people on here who are saying 'we' re down,  its over, we're shit,the fat lady has already sang' etc will be the first on here being angry if we lose on Thursday.
So what?

It's a bit like people who go on the pre-match thread and predict we'll lose 6-0, we lose 2-0 and are still angry even though we lost by four goals than they were expecting. Each to their own though.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on July 08, 2020, 01:46:45 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on October 10, 2018, 10:10:00 PM
Happy enough with this.

One word of caution, Dean is a bit of a slow burner. Takes a while for his methods to really click into place at Walsall and Brentford. Yes better players here but they need to be organised and coached. He will do that but needs time.

I think our rest of the season will probably be similar to when SB came in. Next season is when I really expect us to look good providing FFP dosen't cripple us.

I would imagine Richard O'Kelly will be coming in to join the staff. Dean's number 2 at Walsall and Brentford. Used to manage Hereford.

Having trawled through the first ten pages or so of this thread, this one stuck out.

He needs time, and so far he's worked with two squads. One of which needed reinforcements to get us up (Grealish and Mings) and this one, that is just about hanging on in the league despite having a lot of new additions.

It's interesting to see how happy most people were with the appointments at the time.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 08, 2020, 01:56:46 PM
Quote from: LeeB on July 08, 2020, 12:55:59 PM
Quote from: Clampy on July 08, 2020, 12:46:42 PM
The thing is, the people on here who are saying 'we' re down,  its over, we're shit,the fat lady has already sang' etc will be the first on here being angry if we lose on Thursday.

It's the same posters, year after year, manager after manager, bad run after bad run.


What do you honestly expect after the best part of ten years of absolute shite on top of absolute shite?  Fans to be happy about another shit manager serving up another appalling season?  The Championship was shit, and now we've got another year at least of it to look forward to.  Great.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Hookeysmith on July 08, 2020, 01:57:18 PM
Quote from: Hillbilly on July 08, 2020, 11:58:09 AM
Quote from: Ads on July 08, 2020, 11:08:26 AM
Your first sentence is completely wrong though. Its not over, by any means. You think we're going down, everybody is very worried and thinks its a strong possibility. But its not over at all.
We have 2 points from our last 8 matches. We are 4 points behind Watford with 5 left. We’ve beaten Arsenal once in a decade and Man U once this century. It’s over.

Our record against Palace is not that great either :(
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on July 08, 2020, 02:06:40 PM
Quote from: Risso on July 08, 2020, 01:56:46 PM
Quote from: LeeB on July 08, 2020, 12:55:59 PM
Quote from: Clampy on July 08, 2020, 12:46:42 PM
The thing is, the people on here who are saying 'we' re down,  its over, we're shit,the fat lady has already sang' etc will be the first on here being angry if we lose on Thursday.

It's the same posters, year after year, manager after manager, bad run after bad run.


What do you honestly expect after the best part of ten years of absolute shite on top of absolute shite?  Fans to be happy about another shit manager serving up another appalling season?  The Championship was shit, and now we've got another year at least of it to look forward to.  Great.

Maybe the task is beyond him, but maybe the task we had was beyond most managers, rebuilding a squad in a couple of months in the wealthiest league in the world. Are they all 'shit'? It's backwards thinking, it means throwing the baby out with the bathwater every time and it will lead to us being shit for another 10 years if we don't find the magic unicorn that will fix all of our ills.

Anyway, weren't you calling for Smith's head when we lost at home to the baggies last season? After what, 4 months in the job?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on July 08, 2020, 02:14:02 PM
Risso's job on this site is to call for the Manager's head - we wouldn't have it any other way.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on July 08, 2020, 02:20:45 PM
Quote from: Clampy on July 08, 2020, 01:03:45 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on July 08, 2020, 12:49:25 PM
Quote from: Clampy on July 08, 2020, 12:46:42 PM
The thing is, the people on here who are saying 'we' re down,  its over, we're shit,the fat lady has already sang' etc will be the first on here being angry if we lose on Thursday.
So what?

It's a bit like people who go on the pre-match thread and predict we'll lose 6-0, we lose 2-0 and are still angry even though we lost by four goals than they were expecting. Each to their own though.

Read my message again Clampy, once again, you misquote someone to make yet another insipid post.  She is getting ready to sing, she hasn't started yet.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on July 08, 2020, 02:23:53 PM
Quote from: Newby on July 08, 2020, 02:20:45 PM
Quote from: Clampy on July 08, 2020, 01:03:45 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on July 08, 2020, 12:49:25 PM
Quote from: Clampy on July 08, 2020, 12:46:42 PM
The thing is, the people on here who are saying 'we' re down,  its over, we're shit,the fat lady has already sang' etc will be the first on here being angry if we lose on Thursday.
So what?

It's a bit like people who go on the pre-match thread and predict we'll lose 6-0, we lose 2-0 and are still angry even though we lost by four goals than they were expecting. Each to their own though.

Read my message again Clampy, once again, you misquote someone to make yet another insipid post.  She is getting ready to sing, she hasn't started yet.

I don't know what message of yours you are on about,  so I havent misquoted anybody.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on July 08, 2020, 02:26:43 PM
Quote from: Clampy on July 08, 2020, 02:23:53 PM
Quote from: Newby on July 08, 2020, 02:20:45 PM
Quote from: Clampy on July 08, 2020, 01:03:45 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on July 08, 2020, 12:49:25 PM
Quote from: Clampy on July 08, 2020, 12:46:42 PM
The thing is, the people on here who are saying 'we' re down,  its over, we're shit,the fat lady has already sang' etc will be the first on here being angry if we lose on Thursday.
So what?

It's a bit like people who go on the pre-match thread and predict we'll lose 6-0, we lose 2-0 and are still angry even though we lost by four goals than they were expecting. Each to their own though.

Read my message again Clampy, once again, you misquote someone to make yet another insipid post.  She is getting ready to sing, she hasn't started yet.

I don't know what message of yours you are on about,  so I havent misquoted anybody.

The fat lady has already sang.  Is a misquote. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 08, 2020, 02:28:03 PM
Several people have mentioned fat ladies singing. It's felt like a Glaswegian hen do at times.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on July 08, 2020, 02:30:37 PM
Quote from: Newby on July 08, 2020, 02:26:43 PM
Quote from: Clampy on July 08, 2020, 02:23:53 PM
Quote from: Newby on July 08, 2020, 02:20:45 PM
Quote from: Clampy on July 08, 2020, 01:03:45 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on July 08, 2020, 12:49:25 PM
Quote from: Clampy on July 08, 2020, 12:46:42 PM
The thing is, the people on here who are saying 'we' re down,  its over, we're shit,the fat lady has already sang' etc will be the first on here being angry if we lose on Thursday.
So what?

It's a bit like people who go on the pre-match thread and predict we'll lose 6-0, we lose 2-0 and are still angry even though we lost by four goals than they were expecting. Each to their own though.

Read my message again Clampy, once again, you misquote someone to make yet another insipid post.  She is getting ready to sing, she hasn't started yet.

I don't know what message of yours you are on about,  so I havent misquoted anybody.

The fat lady has already sang.  Is a misquote. 

Like I said. I did not read that post of yours before I posted mine. I don't tend to read every post on here. Call it a co-imcidence. Its a fairly common saying believe it or not.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 08, 2020, 02:39:43 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on July 08, 2020, 02:28:03 PM
Several people have mentioned fat ladies singing. It's felt like a Glaswegian hen do at times.

Post of the day.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Jim Bradley on July 08, 2020, 02:45:37 PM
Just a small point but one which I'd expect the Manager of a great club like Aston Villa to get right.  In his pre-United press conference Dean said that our destiny is still in our own hands at this point because West Ham and Watford have to play each other.  That's not the case I'm afraid because even if we win our last 5 and gain 15 points, if Watford beat West Ham, both teams can still beat our total by gaining a remaining 12 points until the end of the season. As I said, not a huge issue as very unlikely to happen in any case but at least get your facts right if you are going to make such claims!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on July 08, 2020, 02:45:50 PM
Quote from: Clampy on July 08, 2020, 01:03:45 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on July 08, 2020, 12:49:25 PM
Quote from: Clampy on July 08, 2020, 12:46:42 PM
The thing is, the people on here who are saying 'we' re down,  its over, we're shit,the fat lady has already sang' etc will be the first on here being angry if we lose on Thursday.
So what?

It's a bit like people who go on the pre-match thread and predict we'll lose 6-0, we lose 2-0 and are still angry even though we lost by four goals than they were expecting. Each to their own though.

Hm. It's no more ridiculous than the people who predict a win every week, and when we fail to even score a goal in a match we were never going to win in the first place, move on to the next Pre-Match thread predicting victory again.

Blue sky nonsense
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ASHTONVILLA on July 08, 2020, 02:45:59 PM
Quote from: LeeB on July 08, 2020, 02:06:40 PM
Maybe the task is beyond him, but maybe the task we had was beyond most managers, rebuilding a squad in a couple of months in the wealthiest league in the world. Are they all 'shit'? It's backwards thinking, it means throwing the baby out with the bathwater every time and it will lead to us being shit for another 10 years if we don't find the magic unicorn that will fix all of our ills.

Anyway, weren't you calling for Smith's head when we lost at home to the baggies last season? After what, 4 months in the job?

Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is a definition of madness. Smith has to go. Any manager doing this badly would have to go. Did lambert get any better for being kept on at least a season too long? Should we have kept McNeil, Turner, Venglos, Garde? Do you think Leicester regret binning off Pearson, Ranieri and Shakespeare even though they all improved them before faltering? Maybe Man Utd should have kept hold of Moyes for another few years?

Plenty of managers have taken teams up and kept them there on less resource. We shouldn't be aspiring to having a manager that 'isn't shit', we should be aiming for good.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 08, 2020, 02:49:36 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on July 08, 2020, 02:45:50 PM
Quote from: Clampy on July 08, 2020, 01:03:45 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on July 08, 2020, 12:49:25 PM
Quote from: Clampy on July 08, 2020, 12:46:42 PM
The thing is, the people on here who are saying 'we' re down,  its over, we're shit,the fat lady has already sang' etc will be the first on here being angry if we lose on Thursday.
So what?

It's a bit like people who go on the pre-match thread and predict we'll lose 6-0, we lose 2-0 and are still angry even though we lost by four goals than they were expecting. Each to their own though.

Hm. It's no more ridiculous than the people who predict a win every week, and when we fail to even score a goal in a match we were never going to win in the first place, move on to the next Pre-Match thread predicting victory again.

Blue sky nonsense

God forbid that a football supporter should be supportive.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on July 08, 2020, 02:53:20 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 08, 2020, 02:49:36 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on July 08, 2020, 02:45:50 PM
Quote from: Clampy on July 08, 2020, 01:03:45 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on July 08, 2020, 12:49:25 PM
Quote from: Clampy on July 08, 2020, 12:46:42 PM
The thing is, the people on here who are saying 'we' re down,  its over, we're shit,the fat lady has already sang' etc will be the first on here being angry if we lose on Thursday.
So what?

It's a bit like people who go on the pre-match thread and predict we'll lose 6-0, we lose 2-0 and are still angry even though we lost by four goals than they were expecting. Each to their own though.

Hm. It's no more ridiculous than the people who predict a win every week, and when we fail to even score a goal in a match we were never going to win in the first place, move on to the next Pre-Match thread predicting victory again.

Blue sky nonsense

God forbid that a football supporter should be supportive.

Being supportive is nonsense.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 08, 2020, 02:56:30 PM
Exactly. Anger and outrage about something that hasn't happened is the order of the day. To be followed up with anger and outrage when the thing that you've been convinced beyond doubt was going to happen happens.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on July 08, 2020, 03:00:38 PM
Pretending things are better than they are is not being supportive. We all show up for games that we know we're going to lose, that's part and parcel of being a supporter. But I watch enough football to know a hopeless case when I see one, and I'm not going to tell my fellow supporters that it's somehow OK that we've stank up the Premier League this season. It's certainly not OK to me.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 08, 2020, 03:01:54 PM
It never ceases to amaze me how much moaning goes on about the perceived moaning or pessimism.  As if there's something incomprehensible about why people are pessimistic at this particular moment in time.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on July 08, 2020, 03:02:24 PM
Quote from: Ads on July 08, 2020, 11:34:36 AM
Quote from: Villan82 on July 08, 2020, 11:23:31 AM
Quote from: Ads on July 08, 2020, 09:59:54 AM
Bielsa might get Leeds up in two years. Smith did it in less than one season and with the poorest excuse for a defence at the start of his time that we've had in my lifetime.

Dyche has kept a Burnley side up and got them into Europe. Look at their squad, look at their midfield. Why rubbish his achievements which are far greater in the Premier League than Bielsa, who so far, has not managed a single game in the top flight of English football.

Thats your problem there. Assuming that being forrin rather than from iNguRlaNd is a prerequisite for success.

What nonsense. Utter nonsense.

Somebody got out the wrong side of the bed.

The season has been a dreadful struggle. Points pissed up the wall in the first half of the season. A monumental waste.

Oh thats me told.

Nonsense is disregarding English managers achievements like Dyche or Wilder "because its more of the same" or Fat Sam, who keeps clubs up. You can take your pick over styles of football; but all 3 regular achieve success relative to their aims. In the same breath ignoring Bielsa and what he's actually done in English football club compared to what he might. For avoidance of doubt, he took Leeds from top after beating us at Christmas, to watching us get promoted on the tele in May.

Of course this season has been a struggle. I hoped for 11th  feared 2015/16 cannon fodder, would be happy to stay up. And we still might which will be job jobbed.

I wasn’t disregarding British managers successes i don’t mind Dyche at all

but I used Bielsa as a model of the direction I would rather take than go down the same path as we’ve been going down before

whatever British manager is doing well at the time we are looking ie Smith, Lambert, Bruce gets the gig but I would rather tread a different path

that’s all I’m saying
If you disagree that’s fair enough if Dyche is what you want fair doos
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on July 08, 2020, 03:05:43 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on July 08, 2020, 03:00:38 PM
Pretending things are better than they are is not being supportive. We all show up for games that we know we're going to lose, that's part and parcel of being a supporter. But I watch enough football to know a hopeless case when I see one, and I'm not going to tell my fellow supporters that it's somehow OK that we've stank up the Premier League this season. It's certainly not OK to me.

No-one is pretending things are better than they are though.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on July 08, 2020, 03:06:13 PM
I want Pepe and to play the best football imaginable and to win every week.

I wouldn't mind Dyche's effectiveness.

The problem with Bielsa and Smith, is Smith succeeded, Bielsa failed and quite spectacularly too. He may still get them up this season, stands a good chance.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 08, 2020, 03:10:42 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on July 08, 2020, 03:00:38 PM
Pretending things are better than they are is not being supportive. We all show up for games that we know we're going to lose, that's part and parcel of being a supporter. But I watch enough football to know a hopeless case when I see one, and I'm not going to tell my fellow supporters that it's somehow OK that we've stank up the Premier League this season. It's certainly not OK to me.

Which nobody at all is saying.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on July 08, 2020, 03:12:19 PM
Quote from: ASHTONVILLA on July 08, 2020, 02:45:59 PM
Quote from: LeeB on July 08, 2020, 02:06:40 PM
Maybe the task is beyond him, but maybe the task we had was beyond most managers, rebuilding a squad in a couple of months in the wealthiest league in the world. Are they all 'shit'? It's backwards thinking, it means throwing the baby out with the bathwater every time and it will lead to us being shit for another 10 years if we don't find the magic unicorn that will fix all of our ills.

Anyway, weren't you calling for Smith's head when we lost at home to the baggies last season? After what, 4 months in the job?

Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is a definition of madness. Smith has to go. Any manager doing this badly would have to go. Did lambert get any better for being kept on at least a season too long? Should we have kept McNeil, Turner, Venglos, Garde? Do you think Leicester regret binning off Pearson, Ranieri and Shakespeare even though they all improved them before faltering? Maybe Man Utd should have kept hold of Moyes for another few years?

Plenty of managers have taken teams up and kept them there on less resource. We shouldn't be aspiring to having a manager that 'isn't shit', we should be aiming for good.

We should have sacked Taylor in 89. And Little for taking us so close to relegation. And Saunders when we were going backwards after 77 etc. Everton should have sacked Kendall, blah de blah.

And choosing Man Utd as an example in this case is probably not the wisest.

Anyway, it's all just scapegoating, the mob have had enough and they want a head. In football it's usually the manager, and to hell with trying to sort out the real issues we'll just bring in the next scapegoat that will fail to meet expectations.

It just feels dumb.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on July 08, 2020, 03:15:04 PM
Quote from: Ads on July 08, 2020, 03:06:13 PM
I want Pepe and to play the best football imaginable and to win every week.

I wouldn't mind Dyche's effectiveness.

The problem with Bielsa and Smith, is Smith succeeded, Bielsa failed and quite spectacularly too. He may still get them up this season, stands a good chance.

It’s not an argument

I’m just putting forward the way I would like us to go if Smith goes



Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on July 08, 2020, 03:19:42 PM
Quote from: Ads on July 08, 2020, 03:06:13 PM
I want Pepe and to play the best football imaginable and to win every week.

I wouldn't mind Dyche's effectiveness.

The problem with Bielsa and Smith, is Smith succeeded, Bielsa failed and quite spectacularly too. He may still get them up this season, stands a good chance.

I'd say that last season was a year too early for us and Leeds, they had a squad with about 13-14 players good enough to challenge and then dross/kids, we were similar but with no defenders as well. A pretty miraculous run of form saw us get to the play offs and then momentum carried us through but it meant we had a summer to rebuild completely. Leeds missed otu and had an extra season to build a squad Bielsa could work with and they're benefiting from that.

The advantage Bielsa has is that he's much more experienced of managing sides in the top flight whereas Smith had to learn what works and what doesn't 'on the job'. This is why my choice for a manager is always to look at someone who has been successful in a top flight league somewhere like portugal, holland, belgium or scotland if you can because they aren't hugely in demand from the very top sides but they have that experience of playing winning football in a league that isn't massively ahead of the championship in standard but where the goal is European qualification and meaningful title rather than earning the right to play against better teams. It changes the expectations and pressure.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 08, 2020, 03:20:33 PM
Quote from: LeeB on July 08, 2020, 03:12:19 PM
We should have sacked Taylor in 89. And Little for taking us so close to relegation. And Saunders when we were going backwards after 77 etc. Everton should have sacked Kendall, blah de blah.

And choosing Man Utd as an example in this case is probably not the wisest.

Anyway, it's all just scapegoating, the mob have had enough and they want a head. In football it's usually the manager, and to hell with trying to sort out the real issues we'll just bring in the next scapegoat that will fail to meet expectations.

It just feels dumb.
It will feel dumb if you only cite the examples where it would have been dumb.  Sticking with someone is the ideal but not for its own sake.  You stick with someone when they've proved they can do the job and do it well.  What we've done for the last few years is appoint a succession of mediocre managers.  It doesn't seem to me that arbitrarily deciding to stick with one of them, for fear of appointing another mediocre manager in their wake, is a good idea.  The key thing is to finally, after years of fucking it up with has beens and no marks, appoint someone good.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 08, 2020, 03:22:55 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on July 08, 2020, 03:01:54 PM
It never ceases to amaze me how much moaning goes on about the perceived moaning or pessimism.  As if there's something incomprehensible about why people are pessimistic at this particular moment in time.

It's not the pessimism that's difficult to understand; it's the relentlessness.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ASHTONVILLA on July 08, 2020, 03:24:38 PM
Quote from: LeeB on July 08, 2020, 03:12:19 PM
Quote from: ASHTONVILLA on July 08, 2020, 02:45:59 PM
Quote from: LeeB on July 08, 2020, 02:06:40 PM
Maybe the task is beyond him, but maybe the task we had was beyond most managers, rebuilding a squad in a couple of months in the wealthiest league in the world. Are they all 'shit'? It's backwards thinking, it means throwing the baby out with the bathwater every time and it will lead to us being shit for another 10 years if we don't find the magic unicorn that will fix all of our ills.

Anyway, weren't you calling for Smith's head when we lost at home to the baggies last season? After what, 4 months in the job?

Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is a definition of madness. Smith has to go. Any manager doing this badly would have to go. Did lambert get any better for being kept on at least a season too long? Should we have kept McNeil, Turner, Venglos, Garde? Do you think Leicester regret binning off Pearson, Ranieri and Shakespeare even though they all improved them before faltering? Maybe Man Utd should have kept hold of Moyes for another few years?

Plenty of managers have taken teams up and kept them there on less resource. We shouldn't be aspiring to having a manager that 'isn't shit', we should be aiming for good.

We should have sacked Taylor in 89. And Little for taking us so close to relegation. And Saunders when we were going backwards after 77 etc. Everton should have sacked Kendall, blah de blah.

And choosing Man Utd as an example in this case is probably not the wisest.

Anyway, it's all just scapegoating, the mob have had enough and they want a head. In football it's usually the manager, and to hell with trying to sort out the real issues we'll just bring in the next scapegoat that will fail to meet expectations.

It just feels dumb.

Not as dumb as giving fresh pile of money to the set up that just failed miserably.

Just because sticking with Ferguson worked out 20 years ago it does not follow that sticking with Moyes would have. Yes there are examples of managers that turned it around after a bad patch (Smith did it himself last year) but there are plenty of cautionary tales from clubs that stuck too long as well.

And as for Kendall, ask any Everton fan about his second and third stint and they will tell you there is no room for living on past performance in football.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on July 08, 2020, 03:25:03 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on July 08, 2020, 03:22:55 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on July 08, 2020, 03:01:54 PM
It never ceases to amaze me how much moaning goes on about the perceived moaning or pessimism.  As if there's something incomprehensible about why people are pessimistic at this particular moment in time.

It's not the pessimism that's difficult to understand; it's the relentlessness.

Absolutely. The frustration is understandable. It's almost as if some people try and sound angrier than they did the day before.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 08, 2020, 03:28:07 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on July 08, 2020, 03:22:55 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on July 08, 2020, 03:01:54 PM
It never ceases to amaze me how much moaning goes on about the perceived moaning or pessimism.  As if there's something incomprehensible about why people are pessimistic at this particular moment in time.

It's not the pessimism that's difficult to understand; it's the relentlessness.
Some people are relentlessly pessimistic, some are relentlessly positive.  That's life.  I am surprised though by how much that appears to upset people on both sides.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 08, 2020, 03:38:41 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on July 08, 2020, 03:22:55 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on July 08, 2020, 03:01:54 PM
It never ceases to amaze me how much moaning goes on about the perceived moaning or pessimism.  As if there's something incomprehensible about why people are pessimistic at this particular moment in time.

It's not the pessimism that's difficult to understand; it's the relentlessness.

People complaining about pessimism are just as relentless, even more so in most cases.  I can't understand why they don't understand why people are so upset about another dreadful season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on July 08, 2020, 03:38:50 PM
Quote from: Clampy on July 08, 2020, 03:25:03 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on July 08, 2020, 03:22:55 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on July 08, 2020, 03:01:54 PM
It never ceases to amaze me how much moaning goes on about the perceived moaning or pessimism.  As if there's something incomprehensible about why people are pessimistic at this particular moment in time.

It's not the pessimism that's difficult to understand; it's the relentlessness.

Absolutely. The frustration is understandable. It's almost as if some people try and sound angrier than they did the day before.

I think the bigger problem is that once the pessimism kicks in EVERYTHING is shit, Mings isn't worth £15m, we'll be lucky if get £50m for Jack and he's not that good anyway, Luiz is playing well so he'll definitely leave to go back to Man City, Smith just got lucky last season, Purslow is shit and should be sacked, etc etc.

No one is claiming things are great but it's also clearly not true that everything is terrible, it's doesn't have to be one or the other.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on July 08, 2020, 03:41:03 PM
Quote from: paul_e on July 08, 2020, 03:38:50 PM
Quote from: Clampy on July 08, 2020, 03:25:03 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on July 08, 2020, 03:22:55 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on July 08, 2020, 03:01:54 PM
It never ceases to amaze me how much moaning goes on about the perceived moaning or pessimism.  As if there's something incomprehensible about why people are pessimistic at this particular moment in time.

It's not the pessimism that's difficult to understand; it's the relentlessness.

Absolutely. The frustration is understandable. It's almost as if some people try and sound angrier than they did the day before.

I think the bigger problem is that once the pessimism kicks in EVERYTHING is shit, Mings isn't worth £15m, we'll be lucky if get £50m for Jack and he's not that good anyway, Luiz is playing well so he'll definitely leave to go back to Man City, Smith just got lucky last season, Purslow is shit and should be sacked, etc etc.

No one is claiming things are great but it's also clearly not true that everything is terrible, it's doesn't have to be one or the other.

Just a touch of exaggeration there
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on July 08, 2020, 03:43:17 PM
Quote from: paul_e on July 08, 2020, 03:38:50 PM
Quote from: Clampy on July 08, 2020, 03:25:03 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on July 08, 2020, 03:22:55 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on July 08, 2020, 03:01:54 PM
It never ceases to amaze me how much moaning goes on about the perceived moaning or pessimism.  As if there's something incomprehensible about why people are pessimistic at this particular moment in time.

It's not the pessimism that's difficult to understand; it's the relentlessness.

Absolutely. The frustration is understandable. It's almost as if some people try and sound angrier than they did the day before.

I think the bigger problem is that once the pessimism kicks in EVERYTHING is shit, Mings isn't worth £15m, we'll be lucky if get £50m for Jack and he's not that good anyway, Luiz is playing well so he'll definitely leave to go back to Man City, Smith just got lucky last season, Purslow is shit and should be sacked, etc etc.

No one is claiming things are great but it's also clearly not true that everything is terrible, it's doesn't have to be one or the other.

Precisely. It the hyperbole that kills you. Something is not right so lets burn everything. It's the kind of thinking that gets us Brexit.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 08, 2020, 03:44:52 PM
Quote from: paul_e on July 08, 2020, 03:38:50 PM
Quote from: Clampy on July 08, 2020, 03:25:03 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on July 08, 2020, 03:22:55 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on July 08, 2020, 03:01:54 PM
It never ceases to amaze me how much moaning goes on about the perceived moaning or pessimism.  As if there's something incomprehensible about why people are pessimistic at this particular moment in time.

It's not the pessimism that's difficult to understand; it's the relentlessness.

Absolutely. The frustration is understandable. It's almost as if some people try and sound angrier than they did the day before.

I think the bigger problem is that once the pessimism kicks in EVERYTHING is shit, Mings isn't worth £15m, we'll be lucky if get £50m for Jack and he's not that good anyway, Luiz is playing well so he'll definitely leave to go back to Man City, Smith just got lucky last season, Purslow is shit and should be sacked, etc etc.

No one is claiming things are great but it's also clearly not true that everything is terrible, it's doesn't have to be one or the other.

Being on the verge of relegation is pretty terrible though.  We've still got some good players (not nearly enough) but the big picture item at the moment is that we're going down again.  Which will lead to another huge amount of uncertainty, ie probable loss of players, financial difficulties and unknown number of years playing dross like Coventry, the shite and Rotherham.

We might get lucky, keep some of the better players, and storm back up whether under Smith or somebody else, but I doubt it.  The reality is that we will probably have no option but to sell the likes of Grealish and McGinn, at which point we've got to hope that we can find suitable replacements for another crack at the Championship.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 08, 2020, 03:46:27 PM
Quote from: LeeB on July 08, 2020, 03:43:17 PM
Precisely. It the hyperbole that kills you. Something is not right so lets burn everything. It's the kind of thinking that gets us Brexit.

"It's the hyperbole that kills you" *follows up with something very hyperbolic*
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on July 08, 2020, 03:46:38 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on July 08, 2020, 03:41:03 PM
Quote from: paul_e on July 08, 2020, 03:38:50 PM
Quote from: Clampy on July 08, 2020, 03:25:03 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on July 08, 2020, 03:22:55 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on July 08, 2020, 03:01:54 PM
It never ceases to amaze me how much moaning goes on about the perceived moaning or pessimism.  As if there's something incomprehensible about why people are pessimistic at this particular moment in time.

It's not the pessimism that's difficult to understand; it's the relentlessness.

Absolutely. The frustration is understandable. It's almost as if some people try and sound angrier than they did the day before.

I think the bigger problem is that once the pessimism kicks in EVERYTHING is shit, Mings isn't worth £15m, we'll be lucky if get £50m for Jack and he's not that good anyway, Luiz is playing well so he'll definitely leave to go back to Man City, Smith just got lucky last season, Purslow is shit and should be sacked, etc etc.

No one is claiming things are great but it's also clearly not true that everything is terrible, it's doesn't have to be one or the other.

Just a touch of exaggeration there

What's the exaggeration? Are any of the examples I've given not things that have been said on this forum in the last week?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 08, 2020, 03:47:08 PM
Quote from: LeeB on July 08, 2020, 03:43:17 PM
Precisely. It the hyperbole that kills you. Something is not right so lets burn everything. It's the kind of thinking that gets us Brexit.
Is anyone saying that though?  Seems to me the reaction this season is either sack Dean or sack Suso or do nothing.  Everyone would agree we need to buy and sell a few players.  Our performances have been so poor that something has to change.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 08, 2020, 03:47:39 PM
It's just human nature really. In the top 6 days under MON we had relentless moaning aswell when we went a few games without a win or fielded an understrength team in the europa (with good reason it turns out).

It's been a disappointing season however you spin it. One because we've again failed to build on momentum we generated 12 months ago which seems a speciality of the club in last 20 years. Other reason is we've spent large chunks of season outside the bottom 3. Even in mid January we had a good chance to push on and be where say Brighton are now, as good as safe.

It will be disappointing to go straight back down. However I don't believe it will be disastrous as 2016 could've easily been.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT on July 08, 2020, 03:48:50 PM
I’m not bothering quoting anyone, but if Dean Smth just “got lucky” last season, then we’ll put this season down to “bad luck” if that’s the case.

Much harder to fire a manager for just bad luck.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on July 08, 2020, 03:51:19 PM
Quote from: paul_e on July 08, 2020, 03:46:38 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on July 08, 2020, 03:41:03 PM
Quote from: paul_e on July 08, 2020, 03:38:50 PM
I think the bigger problem is that once the pessimism kicks in EVERYTHING is shit, Mings isn't worth £15m, we'll be lucky if get £50m for Jack and he's not that good anyway, Luiz is playing well so he'll definitely leave to go back to Man City, Smith just got lucky last season, Purslow is shit and should be sacked, etc etc.

No one is claiming things are great but it's also clearly not true that everything is terrible, it's doesn't have to be one or the other.

Just a touch of exaggeration there

What's the exaggeration? Are any of the examples I've given not things that have been said on this forum in the last week?

If they're not all coming from the same individual then the point is moot. I haven't seen anyone maintain all of what you've mentioned above. You can't just pick at disparate negative posts from people you don't agree with, cobble them all together, and say "Look! Ent it hysterical?"
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on July 08, 2020, 03:53:52 PM
when you've lost as many games as we have, thrown away as many points as we have and signed as many mediocre players as we have, it's not a question of bad luck.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on July 08, 2020, 03:56:42 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on July 08, 2020, 03:47:08 PM
Quote from: LeeB on July 08, 2020, 03:43:17 PM
Precisely. It the hyperbole that kills you. Something is not right so lets burn everything. It's the kind of thinking that gets us Brexit.
Is anyone saying that though?  Seems to me the reaction this season is either sack Dean or sack Suso or do nothing.  Everyone would agree we need to buy and sell a few players.  Our performances have been so poor that something has to change.

That post is perfectly reasonable though, many others aren't.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on July 08, 2020, 03:59:49 PM
I've seen posts that suggest we should get rid of the Head Coach, DoF, CEO and that the owners are shit. That players aren't worth anything like what we paid for them, that they are all 'shit' when the reality isn't anywhere near everything being so bad.

We're not in a great place but any expectation that we should be doing far better are pie in the sky.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on July 08, 2020, 04:05:49 PM
Quote from: LeeB on July 08, 2020, 03:56:42 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on July 08, 2020, 03:47:08 PM
Quote from: LeeB on July 08, 2020, 03:43:17 PM
Precisely. It the hyperbole that kills you. Something is not right so lets burn everything. It's the kind of thinking that gets us Brexit.
Is anyone saying that though?  Seems to me the reaction this season is either sack Dean or sack Suso or do nothing.  Everyone would agree we need to buy and sell a few players.  Our performances have been so poor that something has to change.

That post is perfectly reasonable though, many others aren't.

I think most posters are saying the same.  the tactics and recruitment has been poor.  We do not have the players, Dean can't raise their level.  Something has to give.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 08, 2020, 04:06:17 PM
Quote from: Newby on July 08, 2020, 04:05:49 PM
Quote from: LeeB on July 08, 2020, 03:56:42 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on July 08, 2020, 03:47:08 PM
Quote from: LeeB on July 08, 2020, 03:43:17 PM
Precisely. It the hyperbole that kills you. Something is not right so lets burn everything. It's the kind of thinking that gets us Brexit.
Is anyone saying that though?  Seems to me the reaction this season is either sack Dean or sack Suso or do nothing.  Everyone would agree we need to buy and sell a few players.  Our performances have been so poor that something has to change.

That post is perfectly reasonable though, many others aren't.

I

Agreed.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on July 08, 2020, 04:06:30 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on July 08, 2020, 03:51:19 PM
Quote from: paul_e on July 08, 2020, 03:46:38 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on July 08, 2020, 03:41:03 PM
Quote from: paul_e on July 08, 2020, 03:38:50 PM
I think the bigger problem is that once the pessimism kicks in EVERYTHING is shit, Mings isn't worth £15m, we'll be lucky if get £50m for Jack and he's not that good anyway, Luiz is playing well so he'll definitely leave to go back to Man City, Smith just got lucky last season, Purslow is shit and should be sacked, etc etc.

No one is claiming things are great but it's also clearly not true that everything is terrible, it's doesn't have to be one or the other.

Just a touch of exaggeration there

What's the exaggeration? Are any of the examples I've given not things that have been said on this forum in the last week?

If they're not all coming from the same individual then the point is moot. I haven't seen anyone maintain all of what you've mentioned above. You can't just pick at disparate negative posts from people you don't agree with, cobble them all together, and say "Look! Ent it hysterical?"

Of course I can, as Drummond says, if all of these things were as bad as they're individually claimed to be then we'd be in a far worse position than we are. All of it shows that people are flailing around looking for something to blame when the reality is a combination of a number of things being not quite right.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on July 08, 2020, 04:06:54 PM
Quote from: Newby on July 08, 2020, 04:05:49 PM
Quote from: LeeB on July 08, 2020, 03:56:42 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on July 08, 2020, 03:47:08 PM
Quote from: LeeB on July 08, 2020, 03:43:17 PM
Precisely. It the hyperbole that kills you. Something is not right so lets burn everything. It's the kind of thinking that gets us Brexit.
Is anyone saying that though?  Seems to me the reaction this season is either sack Dean or sack Suso or do nothing.  Everyone would agree we need to buy and sell a few players.  Our performances have been so poor that something has to change.

That post is perfectly reasonable though, many others aren't.

I

I and I
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 08, 2020, 04:07:24 PM
Quote from: LeeB on July 08, 2020, 04:06:54 PM
Quote from: Newby on July 08, 2020, 04:05:49 PM
Quote from: LeeB on July 08, 2020, 03:56:42 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on July 08, 2020, 03:47:08 PM
Quote from: LeeB on July 08, 2020, 03:43:17 PM
Precisely. It the hyperbole that kills you. Something is not right so lets burn everything. It's the kind of thinking that gets us Brexit.
Is anyone saying that though?  Seems to me the reaction this season is either sack Dean or sack Suso or do nothing.  Everyone would agree we need to buy and sell a few players.  Our performances have been so poor that something has to change.

That post is perfectly reasonable though, many others aren't.

I

I and I
I Roy
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on July 08, 2020, 04:07:54 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on July 08, 2020, 03:51:19 PM
Quote from: paul_e on July 08, 2020, 03:46:38 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on July 08, 2020, 03:41:03 PM
Quote from: paul_e on July 08, 2020, 03:38:50 PM
I think the bigger problem is that once the pessimism kicks in EVERYTHING is shit, Mings isn't worth £15m, we'll be lucky if get £50m for Jack and he's not that good anyway, Luiz is playing well so he'll definitely leave to go back to Man City, Smith just got lucky last season, Purslow is shit and should be sacked, etc etc.

No one is claiming things are great but it's also clearly not true that everything is terrible, it's doesn't have to be one or the other.

Just a touch of exaggeration there

What's the exaggeration? Are any of the examples I've given not things that have been said on this forum in the last week?

If they're not all coming from the same individual then the point is moot. I haven't seen anyone maintain all of what you've mentioned above. You can't just pick at disparate negative posts from people you don't agree with, cobble them all together, and say "Look! Ent it hysterical?"

You responded to my assertion before that we can stay up with the suggestion that I drink or take some drugs every morning, to vomit my opinion on here because its more optimistic than your own. Hysterical is the right word.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on July 08, 2020, 04:08:02 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on July 08, 2020, 04:07:24 PM
Quote from: LeeB on July 08, 2020, 04:06:54 PM
Quote from: Newby on July 08, 2020, 04:05:49 PM
Quote from: LeeB on July 08, 2020, 03:56:42 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on July 08, 2020, 03:47:08 PM
Quote from: LeeB on July 08, 2020, 03:43:17 PM
Precisely. It the hyperbole that kills you. Something is not right so lets burn everything. It's the kind of thinking that gets us Brexit.
Is anyone saying that though?  Seems to me the reaction this season is either sack Dean or sack Suso or do nothing.  Everyone would agree we need to buy and sell a few players.  Our performances have been so poor that something has to change.

That post is perfectly reasonable though, many others aren't.

I

I and I
I Roy

I, Ron Maiden.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on July 08, 2020, 04:46:05 PM
Quote from: Ads on July 08, 2020, 04:07:54 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on July 08, 2020, 03:51:19 PM
Quote from: paul_e on July 08, 2020, 03:46:38 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on July 08, 2020, 03:41:03 PM
Quote from: paul_e on July 08, 2020, 03:38:50 PM
I think the bigger problem is that once the pessimism kicks in EVERYTHING is shit, Mings isn't worth £15m, we'll be lucky if get £50m for Jack and he's not that good anyway, Luiz is playing well so he'll definitely leave to go back to Man City, Smith just got lucky last season, Purslow is shit and should be sacked, etc etc.

No one is claiming things are great but it's also clearly not true that everything is terrible, it's doesn't have to be one or the other.

Just a touch of exaggeration there

What's the exaggeration? Are any of the examples I've given not things that have been said on this forum in the last week?

If they're not all coming from the same individual then the point is moot. I haven't seen anyone maintain all of what you've mentioned above. You can't just pick at disparate negative posts from people you don't agree with, cobble them all together, and say "Look! Ent it hysterical?"

You responded to my assertion before that we can stay up with the suggestion that I drink or take some drugs every morning, to vomit my opinion on here because its more optimistic than your own. Hysterical is the right word.

Haha, oh dear, you wouldn't know irony if was your own tongue in your own cheek, would you? I was clearly riffing on your "glass is hall full" outlook, but evidently it doesn't take much to offend you. Go have a lie down or get some fresh air, give yourself a wee break from playing the contrarian every time somebody dares to criticise the club.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on July 08, 2020, 04:57:04 PM
Irony? Riffing? You were just being a berk. I'm not a contrarian, I just find it odd that me not being convinced we're going down elicits your sniping. Which is odd given the tone you've taken in this argument with Paul.

It takes plenty to offend me, have a look at the politics thread. But then if I may return fire, you did leave the site in a huff because people were criticising Reo-Coker, so...*shrugs*
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 08, 2020, 04:57:17 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on July 08, 2020, 04:46:05 PM
Quote from: Ads on July 08, 2020, 04:07:54 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on July 08, 2020, 03:51:19 PM
Quote from: paul_e on July 08, 2020, 03:46:38 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on July 08, 2020, 03:41:03 PM
Quote from: paul_e on July 08, 2020, 03:38:50 PM
I think the bigger problem is that once the pessimism kicks in EVERYTHING is shit, Mings isn't worth £15m, we'll be lucky if get £50m for Jack and he's not that good anyway, Luiz is playing well so he'll definitely leave to go back to Man City, Smith just got lucky last season, Purslow is shit and should be sacked, etc etc.

No one is claiming things are great but it's also clearly not true that everything is terrible, it's doesn't have to be one or the other.

Just a touch of exaggeration there

What's the exaggeration? Are any of the examples I've given not things that have been said on this forum in the last week?

If they're not all coming from the same individual then the point is moot. I haven't seen anyone maintain all of what you've mentioned above. You can't just pick at disparate negative posts from people you don't agree with, cobble them all together, and say "Look! Ent it hysterical?"

You responded to my assertion before that we can stay up with the suggestion that I drink or take some drugs every morning, to vomit my opinion on here because its more optimistic than your own. Hysterical is the right word.

Haha, oh dear, you wouldn't know irony if was your own tongue in your own cheek, would you? I was clearly riffing on your "glass is hall full" outlook, but evidently it doesn't take much to offend you. Go have a lie down or get some fresh air, give yourself a wee break from playing the contrarian every time somebody dares to criticise the club.

We can end this monotonous quotathon right now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Axl Rose on July 08, 2020, 05:00:21 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 08, 2020, 04:57:17 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on July 08, 2020, 04:46:05 PM
Quote from: Ads on July 08, 2020, 04:07:54 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on July 08, 2020, 03:51:19 PM
Quote from: paul_e on July 08, 2020, 03:46:38 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on July 08, 2020, 03:41:03 PM
Quote from: paul_e on July 08, 2020, 03:38:50 PM
I think the bigger problem is that once the pessimism kicks in EVERYTHING is shit, Mings isn't worth £15m, we'll be lucky if get £50m for Jack and he's not that good anyway, Luiz is playing well so he'll definitely leave to go back to Man City, Smith just got lucky last season, Purslow is shit and should be sacked, etc etc.

No one is claiming things are great but it's also clearly not true that everything is terrible, it's doesn't have to be one or the other.

Just a touch of exaggeration there

What's the exaggeration? Are any of the examples I've given not things that have been said on this forum in the last week?

If they're not all coming from the same individual then the point is moot. I haven't seen anyone maintain all of what you've mentioned above. You can't just pick at disparate negative posts from people you don't agree with, cobble them all together, and say "Look! Ent it hysterical?"

You responded to my assertion before that we can stay up with the suggestion that I drink or take some drugs every morning, to vomit my opinion on here because its more optimistic than your own. Hysterical is the right word.

Haha, oh dear, you wouldn't know irony if was your own tongue in your own cheek, would you? I was clearly riffing on your "glass is hall full" outlook, but evidently it doesn't take much to offend you. Go have a lie down or get some fresh air, give yourself a wee break from playing the contrarian every time somebody dares to criticise the club.

We can end this monotonous quotathon right now.

It looks quite pretty if you close one eye, turn your phone on its side and eat a pickled onion, though.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on July 08, 2020, 05:03:35 PM
I. Vassell
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on July 08, 2020, 05:04:22 PM
My monotonous quote fest was better though.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on July 08, 2020, 05:13:36 PM
Quote from: brian green on July 08, 2020, 05:03:35 PM
I. Vassell

Empty vessel more like.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on July 08, 2020, 05:19:08 PM
I know where Vassell lives. And that bloke what used to be our chairman.

#EastieIsInYourBins.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on July 08, 2020, 05:20:18 PM
I've been to Steve Stride's house. Legally.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on July 08, 2020, 05:23:28 PM
I think I am the only poster on here who heard the exerpts from Darius Vassell's Turkish Diary on Radio 3.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on July 08, 2020, 05:27:03 PM
Quote from: brian green on July 08, 2020, 05:23:28 PM
I think I am the only poster on here who heard the exerpts from Darius Vassell's Turkish Diary on Radio 3.

Was it like Ian Rush's time in Turin? Apparently that was like being in a foreign country.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: oldhill_avfc on July 08, 2020, 05:32:22 PM
Quote from: brian green on July 08, 2020, 05:23:28 PM
I think I am the only poster on here who heard the exerpts from Darius Vassell's Turkish Diary on Radio 3.

You said you heard them on Radio 4 in the past which seems far more plausible.

You'll be telling us you can hear the crowd noise from an empty stadium next.

Perhaps auditory hallucinations and the impending schitzophrenia are what comes of watching us at the moment?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on July 08, 2020, 05:46:27 PM
It was quite possiblly on both oldhill.  The reading on one channel the critique on the other.  It was well received by the literary critics.  They loved the imagery of a black, Birmingham born professional footballer locking himself in his hotel room, only to come out for training and matches.  And my schitzophrenia is not impending, it is up front and centre.  As for crowd noise I have been listening to it all afternoon between rain breaks at the empty Rosebowl Stadium.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: RamboandBruno on July 08, 2020, 07:34:38 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on July 08, 2020, 03:47:39 PM
It's just human nature really. In the top 6 days under MON we had relentless moaning aswell when we went a few games without a win or fielded an understrength team in the europa (with good reason it turns out).

It's been a disappointing season however you spin it. One because we've again failed to build on momentum we generated 12 months ago which seems a speciality of the club in last 20 years. Other reason is we've spent large chunks of season outside the bottom 3. Even in mid January we had a good chance to push on and be where say Brighton are now, as good as safe.

It will be disappointing to go straight back down. However I don't believe it will be disastrous as 2016 could've easily been.

I think this is right. I’ve spent most of the season on the various threads here, trying to be reasonably positive, or at least in my own opinion, pragmatic. I don’t like the constant griping at smith it just feels a bit draining and sometimes the easy way out of actually analysing what’s going on at the club. But saying all of that, I realised in lockdown what an incredibly stressful season this has been. I’ve seen some shite down there over the years, but usually the real shite of relegation or near enough relegation came after the culmination of a few dire years, e.g. the mid 80’s or 2015. This feels much harder after the massive highs of March to May last year and feeling in the summer like the club had a genuine heartbeat in Grealish, McGinn and Mings. I would of took 17th this season and we still might get it, but everything has just been so bloody hard, just 3 wins and a couple of draws on the bounce at some stage of the season would of just relieved the bloody tension of it all for a month at least.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brend'Watkins on July 08, 2020, 08:15:59 PM
Quote from: Jim Bradley on July 08, 2020, 02:45:37 PM
Just a small point but one which I'd expect the Manager of a great club like Aston Villa to get right.  In his pre-United press conference Dean said that our destiny is still in our own hands at this point because West Ham and Watford have to play each other.  That's not the case I'm afraid because even if we win our last 5 and gain 15 points, if Watford beat West Ham, both teams can still beat our total by gaining a remaining 12 points until the end of the season. As I said, not a huge issue as very unlikely to happen in any case but at least get your facts right if you are going to make such claims!

He must have known something you didn’t.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The_ads on July 08, 2020, 11:40:33 PM
Burnley are 9th. But Dyche isn’t good enough for us because he doesn’t play those pretty triangles and shit. LOL.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 08, 2020, 11:52:47 PM
I’d take Dyche tomorrow. A few years of finishing solid mid table flirting with Europe. Yes please. And just because we are Aston Villa we don’t need to shop in exotic markets. I would much rather find the players he has and compliment them with some more quality additions. I’d even toss in a pack of throat sweets to seal the deal.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on July 09, 2020, 07:18:53 AM
Dean quoted in the Daily Mail as saying we haven't been fit enough this season, I agree, the levels of fitness of nearly all the opposition seemed to have risen hugely in the three years we've been away.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: passport1 on July 09, 2020, 07:41:15 AM
I thought he was head coach.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on July 09, 2020, 07:57:51 AM
Quote from: PeterWithe on July 09, 2020, 07:18:53 AM
Dean quoted in the Daily Mail as saying we haven't been fit enough this season, I agree, the levels of fitness of nearly all the opposition seemed to have risen hugely in the three years we've been away.
Blimey, if it's taken this long to notice something that was being remarked upon here back in August-September, (i) he obviously doesn't log on here and (ii) what has he been doing these last 10 months?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 09, 2020, 08:09:07 AM
It takes time, though. Look at Liverpool. When Klopp arrived, it was clear what he wanted the players to do, I remember him getting frustrated at them. He's been there 5 years, and he only got them fully firing last season. I know they're the extreme, and it's not necessary to reach their level to merely get by, but if you're starting with a base squad like ours, where we've many players 'made of fog', it's never going to be a quick process.

I think players need to take greater personal responsibility to work on it if they expect to play in the top division for any length of time. Look at lockdown. For weeks there was not a lot that players could work on other than fitness and stamina. How many of ours would you say did?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on July 09, 2020, 08:29:11 AM
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on July 09, 2020, 08:09:07 AM
It takes time, though. Look at Liverpool. When Klopp arrived, it was clear what he wanted the players to do, I remember him getting frustrated at them. He's been there 5 years, and he only got them fully firing last season. I know they're the extreme, and it's not necessary to reach their level to merely get by, but if you're starting with a base squad like ours, where we've many players 'made of fog', it's never going to be a quick process.

I think players need to take greater personal responsibility to work on it if they expect to play in the top division for any length of time. Look at lockdown. For weeks there was not a lot that players could work on other than fitness and stamina. How many of ours would you say did?

Luiz definitely did and it's made a big difference.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT on July 09, 2020, 08:32:26 AM
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on July 09, 2020, 08:09:07 AM
It takes time, though. Look at Liverpool. When Klopp arrived, it was clear what he wanted the players to do, I remember him getting frustrated at them. He's been there 5 years, and he only got them fully firing last season. I know they're the extreme, and it's not necessary to reach their level to merely get by, but if you're starting with a base squad like ours, where we've many players 'made of fog', it's never going to be a quick process.

I think players need to take greater personal responsibility to work on it if they expect to play in the top division for any length of time. Look at lockdown. For weeks there was not a lot that players could work on other than fitness and stamina. How many of ours would you say did?

I know the levels are different, but I heard the Wycombe manager talking about the programme their players had designed for them by the sports science people there.

The object was to have them Match fit by the time they were due to play in early July. He was confident by the time they started training that they were, and then they win the first game back 4-1. The pace of the game was exactly that of a pre lockdown game, but Wycombe were ready.

It’s an area we seem to have struggled with since the MON days when a certain JT mentioned we got tired after 70 minutes.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on July 09, 2020, 08:33:49 AM
Quote from: passport1 on July 09, 2020, 07:41:15 AM
I thought he was head coach.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on July 09, 2020, 09:12:23 AM
Dyche would be great for us.  But it wouldn't take long for people to start bashing his playing style as he eeked out 1-0's away and had players who could defend robustly rather than playing it out from the back and losing it within ten seconds of gaining possession from the goalkeeper.  Those sorts of effective, stable, boring if you will types are never good enough for us.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 09, 2020, 09:13:09 AM
So the players aren't fit enough after a year, and the strikers have to be reminded that they should play further forward and try to score some goals. I take it all back, the bloke's a coaching genius.

I noticed yesterday that the questions at the press briefing were noticeably a lot more antagonistic than usual, and Smith seemed much more defensive, and looked flustered.  I wonder if he's been told already that if we go down, he's out of the door?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 09, 2020, 09:20:43 AM
Quote from: CT on July 09, 2020, 08:32:26 AM
It’s an area we seem to have struggled with since the MON days when a certain JT mentioned we got tired after 70 minutes.

Glad you mentioned Terry. I've only very recently stopped following him on the socials because of the amount of Chelsea stuff he puts up, but he was often posting about his runs, PB's and pounding the treadmill at home. And he's just staff.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on July 09, 2020, 10:31:16 AM
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on July 09, 2020, 09:20:43 AM
Quote from: CT on July 09, 2020, 08:32:26 AM
It’s an area we seem to have struggled with since the MON days when a certain JT mentioned we got tired after 70 minutes.

Glad you mentioned Terry. I've only very recently stopped following him on the socials because of the amount of Chelsea stuff he puts up, but he was often posting about his runs, PB's and pounding the treadmill at home. And he's just staff.

^ Similarly unfollowed Terry myself due to the constant Chelsea love-in. It's interesting that he posted a lot less about them when he was playing for us, and seemed to take a lot more pride in being at Villa back then. I suppose he's a 'winner' and we were winning games so he wanted to be seen to be a big part of that. Now that we're struggling, albeit in a higher league, he's all Chelsea again.

One could argue that he feels more free now that he's no longer on playing staff anywhere to show his true colours again. But I'd have thought it all the more unprofessional for someone in a relatively senior coaching role at a club to be posting so fervently about another club in the same league.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on July 09, 2020, 10:34:05 AM
So we’ve been unfit since around 2007? Didn’t GH say the same when he took over, which lead to the fall out with the old guard?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on July 09, 2020, 11:08:42 AM
Fitness levels not being good enough is a distraction tactic often used by new managers to buy a bit of time. Premier league players are all "fit" so I suspect Dean's comments referred to players like McGinn who've been out injured and are striving to regain their peak fitness. Or maybe a dig at our fixture congestion?Liverpool can be said to be fitter than the rest but is that really the case? Players appear fitter when they're running teams ragged because the opposition team is blowing out their arse trying to get the ball off them. What happened to Liverpool's supreme fitness when Man City battered them 5-0 or when Watford beat them 3-0?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 09, 2020, 11:27:04 AM
Quote from: The Edge on July 09, 2020, 11:08:42 AM
Fitness levels not being good enough is a distraction tactic often used by new managers to buy a bit of time. Premier league players are all "fit" so I suspect Dean's comments referred to players like McGinn who've been out injured and are striving to regain their peak fitness. Or maybe a dig at our fixture congestion?Liverpool can be said to be fitter than the rest but is that really the case? Players appear fitter when they're running teams ragged because the opposition team is blowing out their arse trying to get the ball off them. What happened to Liverpool's supreme fitness when Man City battered them 5-0 or when Watford beat them 3-0?


It's as plain as a Bulgarian pin-up! Any other examples, or just those two?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Axl Rose on July 09, 2020, 11:29:51 AM
Quote from: Risso on July 09, 2020, 09:13:09 AM
So the players aren't fit enough after a year, and the strikers have to be reminded that they should play further forward and try to score some goals. I take it all back, the bloke's a coaching genius.

I noticed yesterday that the questions at the press briefing were noticeably a lot more antagonistic than usual, and Smith seemed much more defensive, and looked flustered.  I wonder if he's been told already that if we go down, he's out of the door?

I hope so. He needs to be questioned about his utter ineptitude.

He's very lucky these games are being played without fans. As are the things with two legs masquerading as football players.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on July 09, 2020, 11:36:13 AM
Quote from: Axl Rose on July 09, 2020, 11:29:51 AM
Quote from: Risso on July 09, 2020, 09:13:09 AM
So the players aren't fit enough after a year, and the strikers have to be reminded that they should play further forward and try to score some goals. I take it all back, the bloke's a coaching genius.

I noticed yesterday that the questions at the press briefing were noticeably a lot more antagonistic than usual, and Smith seemed much more defensive, and looked flustered.  I wonder if he's been told already that if we go down, he's out of the door?

I hope so. He needs to be questioned about his utter ineptitude.

He's very lucky these games are being played without fans. As are the things with two legs masquerading as football players.

Spot on mate.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on July 09, 2020, 11:53:15 AM
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on July 09, 2020, 11:27:04 AM
Quote from: The Edge on July 09, 2020, 11:08:42 AM
Fitness levels not being good enough is a distraction tactic often used by new managers to buy a bit of time. Premier league players are all "fit" so I suspect Dean's comments referred to players like McGinn who've been out injured and are striving to regain their peak fitness. Or maybe a dig at our fixture congestion?Liverpool can be said to be fitter than the rest but is that really the case? Players appear fitter when they're running teams ragged because the opposition team is blowing out their arse trying to get the ball off them. What happened to Liverpool's supreme fitness when Man City battered them 5-0 or when Watford beat them 3-0?


It's as plain as a Bulgarian pin-up! Any other examples, or just those two?
What do you mean?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT on July 09, 2020, 12:20:35 PM
“It's as plain as a Bulgarian pin-up!“
Copyright, Arnold Rimmer, Red Dwarf.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VinnieChase84 on July 09, 2020, 12:22:06 PM
The ONLY team since 1st Feb whose not won a league game in the Prem
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ez on July 09, 2020, 12:25:41 PM
Quote from: Risso on July 09, 2020, 09:13:09 AM
So the players aren't fit enough after a year, and the strikers have to be reminded that they should play further forward and try to score some goals. I take it all back, the bloke's a coaching genius.

I noticed yesterday that the questions at the press briefing were noticeably a lot more antagonistic than usual, and Smith seemed much more defensive, and looked flustered.  I wonder if he's been told already that if we go down, he's out of the door?

It could be in that new contract of his. A free pass for the season but we get shot of him cheaply if we go down. Stable doors and horses.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 09, 2020, 12:29:46 PM
Quote from: The Edge on July 09, 2020, 11:08:42 AM
What happened to Liverpool's supreme fitness when Man City battered them 5-0 or when Watford beat them 3-0?

In the Man City case, I imagine it took a temporary break as they all went out and got plastered after winning the title.  With Watford, they just had an extremely rare off day.  As ever, I bet they were quite glad they had us after City.  Nothing like playing Aston Villa when you need to get back on track.  We're the football equivalent of a fry up when you've got a hangover.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brend'Watkins on July 09, 2020, 12:42:04 PM
Quote from: Risso on July 09, 2020, 12:29:46 PM
Quote from: The Edge on July 09, 2020, 11:08:42 AM
What happened to Liverpool's supreme fitness when Man City battered them 5-0 or when Watford beat them 3-0?

In the Man City case, I imagine it took a temporary break as they all went out and got plastered after winning the title.  With Watford, they just had an extremely rare off day.  As ever, I bet they were quite glad they had us after City.  Nothing like playing Aston Villa when you need to get back on track.  We're the football equivalent of a fry up when you've got a hangover.

Very Good.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on July 09, 2020, 12:57:02 PM
Quote from: Risso on July 09, 2020, 12:29:46 PM
Quote from: The Edge on July 09, 2020, 11:08:42 AM
What happened to Liverpool's supreme fitness when Man City battered them 5-0 or when Watford beat them 3-0?

In the Man City case, I imagine it took a temporary break as they all went out and got plastered after winning the title.  With Watford, they just had an extremely rare off day.  As ever, I bet they were quite glad they had us after City.  Nothing like playing Aston Villa when you need to get back on track.  We're the football equivalent of a fry up when you've got a hangover.

Ah, yes, everyone says how bad they are for you but you can't get enough.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 09, 2020, 01:53:21 PM
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on July 09, 2020, 08:09:07 AM
It takes time, though. Look at Liverpool. When Klopp arrived, it was clear what he wanted the players to do, I remember him getting frustrated at them. He's been there 5 years, and he only got them fully firing last season. I know they're the extreme, and it's not necessary to reach their level to merely get by, but if you're starting with a base squad like ours, where we've many players 'made of fog', it's never going to be a quick process.

I think players need to take greater personal responsibility to work on it if they expect to play in the top division for any length of time. Look at lockdown. For weeks there was not a lot that players could work on other than fitness and stamina. How many of ours would you say did?

One way of looking at it is Liverpool stopped messing around buying very average players for inflated fees and instead went for proven quality in key positions. We saw how good Mane was at Southampton v us and he's now one of the top attackers in world football. Van Dijk also showed he was one of the better CBs around in the league and Salah and Allisson were proven in Italy.

I long for the day when we can sign some good players from major teams in other leagues but seems they'll always be an excuse even if we get reasonably good again.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 09, 2020, 01:58:37 PM
Quote from: PeterWithe on July 09, 2020, 07:18:53 AM
Dean quoted in the Daily Mail as saying we haven't been fit enough this season, I agree, the levels of fitness of nearly all the opposition seemed to have risen hugely in the three years we've been away.

Reminds me of Sherwood bleating about it in the October. Just what on earth do we do in pre season as we signed most of our signings reasonably early bar Luiz who was waiting for his work permit and training on Rio beach.

Said it the other day but when you watch Southampton press in midfield against the top teams like Man. City it is miles above what we do. And Southampton are a bog standard mid table team. It's understandable to be caught out of the pace and speed of the league after three years away in August and September but we've had over six months and another transfer window to improve on that.

Makes signing a crab like Drinkwater even more bizarre.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tomd2103 on July 09, 2020, 02:18:27 PM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on July 09, 2020, 09:12:23 AM
Dyche would be great for us.  But it wouldn't take long for people to start bashing his playing style as he eeked out 1-0's away and had players who could defend robustly rather than playing it out from the back and losing it within ten seconds of gaining possession from the goalkeeper.  Those sorts of effective, stable, boring if you will types are never good enough for us.

To be honest, I think that is where there is a bit of a difference between the opinions you see on social media and the general feeling you get at matches.  Agbonlahor was a case in point - hammered on social media (rightly in my opinion) yet always seemed to get a decent reception from a large section of the support at games.

To be honest, I don't think there would be too many groans at games if Dyche had us in the position Burnley currently are and we looked like an organised and efficient side..
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 09, 2020, 02:36:23 PM
Drinkwater was reputed to have a good engine, obviously before he decided to pour lager into it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on July 09, 2020, 02:37:44 PM
Are you sure?  I remember coming out of a game against Middlesbrough at home when Gregory was still in charge.  We won 1-0 and the howls of derision at the end at our ‘functional, boring’ play was very evident.  This was because the feeling was Gregory had abandoned his original swashbuckling approach to games in favour of just getting a result. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on July 09, 2020, 02:38:45 PM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on July 09, 2020, 02:37:44 PM
Are you sure?  I remember coming out of a game against Middlesbrough at home when Gregory was still in charge.  We won 1-0 and the howls of derision at the end at our ‘functional, boring’ play was very evident.  This was because the feeling was Gregory had abandoned his original swashbuckling approach to games in favour of just getting a result. 

What might have been...........
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 09, 2020, 03:09:04 PM
If we appointed Dyche and by say New Year he'd got us solidly embedded in mid-table, but then we're out of the Cup before the end of January and there's little more evident than a push for the giddy heights of about 9th, then I think there'd be no shortage of dissenting voices.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on July 09, 2020, 03:17:15 PM
Quote from: PeterWithe on July 09, 2020, 07:18:53 AM
Dean quoted in the Daily Mail as saying we haven't been fit enough this season, I agree, the levels of fitness of nearly all the opposition seemed to have risen hugely in the three years we've been away.
So what did Terry do about it? He’s very familiar with premier league.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Marlon From Bearwood on July 09, 2020, 05:05:13 PM
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on July 09, 2020, 03:09:04 PM
If we appointed Dyche and by say New Year he'd got us solidly embedded in mid-table, but then we're out of the Cup before the end of January and there's little more evident than a push for the giddy heights of about 9th, then I think there'd be no shortage of dissenting voices.

Depends which division you’re referring to
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 09, 2020, 05:11:02 PM
I've said before that Dyche would be an upgrade on Smith but I'm getting the impression from some on here that to consider other candidates would be lunacy.  He's one among many we might consider.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 09, 2020, 05:11:26 PM
If that’s his excuse then it’s a shit one. You need to be fit in the PL is as obvious a statement as Trump is a fucking racist. You don’t need to be genuine to work it out and you don’t hindsight to proclaim something that was staring you in the face all along.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: algy on July 09, 2020, 05:31:18 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on July 09, 2020, 05:11:26 PM
If that’s his excuse then it’s a shit one. You need to be fit in the PL is as obvious a statement as Trump is a fucking racist. You don’t need to be genuine to work it out and you don’t hindsight to proclaim something that was staring you in the face all along.
What about - the players we've signed from abroad basically aren't fit enough because the pace that they play the game at in the Belgian/Turkish/whatever league is miles behind the pace in the Premier League, and whilst a player with enough skill can adapt to. say. the Championship because they're miles better than anyone else so their (lack of) fitness is less of an issue ... in the Premier League, they don't get cut the same slack.  And because we've got a squad made up of almost entirely new signings, it's not as if we have 8 ready-to-goo players to cover the 3 ones who aren't up to speed yet.

I just think - this season - we've been caught out because we had to sign so many low budget players (OK, the overall spending was huge - but the amount per player is about £10m, which in Premier League terms gets you ... well, a Matt Targett quality player).

I just think - Dean's done alright all things considered.  I know the season's not gone the way anyone would've wanted so far, but we're still in with a fighting chance of staying up, and the circumstances are such that whoever took over was going to have a near impossible job on their hands.

I'd say that regardless of how this season pans out, I'd happily give DS a fair shot next season regardless of the division we're in.


As for Dyche - I'm a fan, but I'm not sure what he'd have done differently in the circumstances.  Fair enough, if we're going for a manager upgrade - great.  But it has to be an actual upgrade, not just a like-for-like swap which is - to me - what Dyche would be.  I'd be thinking more about a top, top manager.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on July 09, 2020, 05:44:35 PM
Quote from: algy on July 09, 2020, 05:31:18 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on July 09, 2020, 05:11:26 PM
If that’s his excuse then it’s a shit one. You need to be fit in the PL is as obvious a statement as Trump is a fucking racist. You don’t need to be genuine to work it out and you don’t hindsight to proclaim something that was staring you in the face all along.
What about - the players we've signed from abroad basically aren't fit enough because the pace that they play the game at in the Belgian/Turkish/whatever league is miles behind the pace in the Premier League, and whilst a player with enough skill can adapt to. say. the Championship because they're miles better than anyone else so their (lack of) fitness is less of an issue ... in the Premier League, they don't get cut the same slack.  And because we've got a squad made up of almost entirely new signings, it's not as if we have 8 ready-to-goo players to cover the 3 ones who aren't up to speed yet.

I just think - this season - we've been caught out because we had to sign so many low budget players (OK, the overall spending was huge - but the amount per player is about £10m, which in Premier League terms gets you ... well, a Matt Targett quality player).

I just think - Dean's done alright all things considered.  I know the season's not gone the way anyone would've wanted so far, but we're still in with a fighting chance of staying up, and the circumstances are such that whoever took over was going to have a near impossible job on their hands.

I'd say that regardless of how this season pans out, I'd happily give DS a fair shot next season regardless of the division we're in.


As for Dyche - I'm a fan, but I'm not sure what he'd have done differently in the circumstances.  Fair enough, if we're going for a manager upgrade - great.  But it has to be an actual upgrade, not just a like-for-like swap which is - to me - what Dyche would be.  I'd be thinking more about a top, top manager.

This. I'd only make a change if it was worth making, if the equivalent today of a Graham Taylor fancied it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on July 09, 2020, 06:45:29 PM
So, to sum up, keep Dean Smith, unless we can appoint the next England Manager or someone ace?  Not even someone who is deemed as marginally better than Dean?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on July 09, 2020, 07:02:51 PM
Quote from: Newby on July 09, 2020, 06:45:29 PM
So, to sum up, keep Dean Smith, unless we can appoint the next England Manager or someone ace?  Not even someone who is deemed as marginally better than Dean?

in fairness that’s a foolproof plan
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on July 09, 2020, 07:06:32 PM
I think the club have already evidenced that they won't make a change for change sake. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on July 09, 2020, 07:16:59 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on July 09, 2020, 05:11:02 PM
I've said before that Dyche would be an upgrade on Smith but I'm getting the impression from some on here that to consider other candidates would be lunacy.  He's one among many we might consider.
More to the point why would Dyche consider us at this moment in time?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on July 09, 2020, 07:20:36 PM
It’s a project innit.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan82 on July 09, 2020, 09:48:52 PM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on July 09, 2020, 07:20:36 PM
It’s a project innit.

The top flight is where it's at for a club like villa. Relegation should always be unacceptable.

'Project' B.S. should set the alarm bells ringing. We are now facing another year, at least, in the wilderness because we didn't fix what clearly wasn't working when we lost 3-0 to Watford.

Utter shambles.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on July 09, 2020, 10:09:38 PM
Do we break the Fat Yam-Yam out the glass  or just wait till the end of the season?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Des Little on July 09, 2020, 10:11:42 PM
Roll the Dyche Villa
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on July 09, 2020, 10:13:05 PM
I've gone right off him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on July 09, 2020, 10:13:09 PM
The job is killing him, he's gone from a progressive attacking manager too the reincarnation of Alex McLeish.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 09, 2020, 10:13:34 PM
Too late to have any impact on relegation now, but he needs to go.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on July 09, 2020, 10:16:07 PM
Coward
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 09, 2020, 10:19:03 PM
From talk the other day, it's suggested that Dyche's course is run at Burnley. But I think if we drop, there'll be other suitors in the PL more attractive than the poison chalice that is 21st century Aston Villa.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: richtheholtender on July 09, 2020, 10:19:13 PM
He’s going to go in the summer anyway. May as well act now and try and be a proactive club for once.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sickbeggar on July 09, 2020, 10:24:41 PM
Like his forwards, seems to have lost all self belief and confidence. I really can't see us scoring again this season
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 09, 2020, 10:26:54 PM
Only thing I can say in his defence is it's not his fault so many players had a complete lack of pride or self respect in that second half. Not being good enough is one thing, not being bothered is something fucking else.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on July 09, 2020, 10:27:52 PM
Please Dean go now for your sake and the Club.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 09, 2020, 10:35:15 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on July 09, 2020, 10:26:54 PM
Only thing I can say in his defence is it's not his fault so many players had a complete lack of pride or self respect in that second half. Not being good enough is one thing, not being bothered is something fucking else.

It starts with the manager. Whatever message he is sending during the week, whatever they are practicing or discussing tactically has absolutely failed. They no longer believe it. The players have been damaged mentally by all of the times we fucked up games early on in the season. Game after game throwing it away. No subs. Shit subs at the wrong time. He’s been proven to be inept and the players are just beaten by it all. The manager talks utter fucking bollocks after the game too. He will again tonight. The players of course are a part of it but all of this starts with the manager. I have no sympathy for him whatsoever.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dazvillain on July 09, 2020, 10:35:25 PM
I think DS will be ok to get us out of the championship again but it’s gonna take a couple of years. Even with the likes of our best half a dozen players sold I don’t feel the others are gutsy performers for 2 games a week ..... if DS has some choice of championship players to buy or get on loan without Suso he may be ok.. I don’t know why but Richard o Kelly pisses me off more than Deano.
Other than Luiz I can’t seem AelG , Trez stopping on top of the better players going, and the squad for championship doesn’t seem the same without fighters such as Snoddy, Albert, Chessie, Hutton, Tammy

Can see us down but think it’s gonna take longer to get back up this time
I really wonder what our owners are thinking ?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: colin69 on July 09, 2020, 10:35:52 PM
Uber for Mr D. Smith from Aston to Bescot/Banks’s stadium.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 09, 2020, 10:37:42 PM
In the summer, if Burnley don’t get into Europe I’d go get Dyche. He would get us up. He would stabilize us. And he would resources he’s never enjoyed before. Even going down in a way it’s a step up. I won’t be easy if it’s still empty stadiums but we need a strong character to rebuild us. Yet again.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AV82EC on July 09, 2020, 10:39:03 PM
Taxi for Smith. Times up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 09, 2020, 10:40:17 PM
Nah you can't blame a lack of self pride or respect on him. Luiz showed he had it and he's had the same manager, Taylor showed it a bit. Everyone else was a fucking disgrace that second half.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on July 09, 2020, 10:41:37 PM
I like Dean. I really like the guy a lot. But I dunno man I'm fucking...I can't articulate it. I want him to succed and do well. But it doesn't seem like our players listen or that he doesn't communicate the ideas well.

I cannot fathom errors from Mings and Grealish born from cowardice, that isn't coaching, but a symptom of something else.

I guess he has nobody else to blame.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Holte L2 on July 09, 2020, 10:43:18 PM
Quote from: AV82EC on July 09, 2020, 10:39:03 PM
Taxi for Smith. Times up.

Not for me mate.

Suso first. And a huge question mark over Purslow.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 09, 2020, 10:43:21 PM
In the reasonable expectation that we're down, fuck all the 'he deserves the chance to get us up again'.  He doesn't.  He deserves the boot for getting us relegated again.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on July 09, 2020, 10:43:31 PM
It tells you a lot about his ‘leadership’ though. Most players are type B, they aren’t leaders on the pitch, they need to be led.

Smith is clueless, he has run them into the ground chasing games, sucked the life out of them losing points from winning positions. They aren’t playing for him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on July 09, 2020, 10:44:14 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on July 09, 2020, 10:37:42 PM
In the summer, if Burnley don’t get into Europe I’d go get Dyche. He would get us up. He would stabilize us. And he would resources he’s never enjoyed before. Even going down in a way it’s a step up. I won’t be easy if it’s still empty stadiums but we need a strong character to rebuild us. Yet again.

I really do question if the resources we imagine will be there next season, both owners will have lost money and I’m wondering if a spending spree will be high on their priorities.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 09, 2020, 10:46:31 PM
It says more about the lack of character a lot of those players have.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 09, 2020, 10:48:56 PM
Quote from: PeterWithe on July 09, 2020, 10:44:14 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on July 09, 2020, 10:37:42 PM
In the summer, if Burnley don’t get into Europe I’d go get Dyche. He would get us up. He would stabilize us. And he would resources he’s never enjoyed before. Even going down in a way it’s a step up. I won’t be easy if it’s still empty stadiums but we need a strong character to rebuild us. Yet again.

I really do question if the resources we imagine will be there next season, both owners will have lost money and I’m wondering if a spending spree will be high on their priorities.
Agree,  this will be hard for them to take. But according to some we are ahead of plan. :(
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AV82EC on July 09, 2020, 10:50:06 PM
Quote from: Holte L2 on July 09, 2020, 10:43:18 PM
Quote from: AV82EC on July 09, 2020, 10:39:03 PM
Taxi for Smith. Times up.

Not for me mate.

Suso first. And a huge question mark over Purslow.

All 3 of them, they’ve failed as individuals and as a group.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ROBBO on July 09, 2020, 10:53:27 PM
Disappointed in the owners, thought they would have been more decisive when he really needed to be replaced.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Des Little on July 09, 2020, 10:53:30 PM
Yep, they can all get in the same taxi. Save us a few quid.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: passport1 on July 09, 2020, 10:55:57 PM
Yes our Head Coach,Director of Football,CEO structure has been a roaring  success.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 09, 2020, 10:58:13 PM
My worry now is that the owners have given up already, and think that they've bitten off more than they can chew with English football.  Their complete non action since January is pure negligence.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on July 09, 2020, 11:00:18 PM
The manager sets the tone for pride in the shirt, pride in the club.  Tonight, I saw cowardice, a lack of effort, poor decision making, a lack of energy and quality.  Other than the poor decision making, everything else is down to the manager. I don't see Dean, ever, getting into his players, demanding more from them on the side.  Even at the water breaks, where are the words of motivation or the individual players being inspired?  This is almost as bad as anything I have seen in terms of lack of pride and effort.  They still look unfit, SJM is tubby and ambling round the pitch, very unusual for him. It is broken.  We need two wins just to get out of the bottom three, I just cannot see it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TonyD on July 09, 2020, 11:00:24 PM
Yep.  We might see a for sale sign. 

Are there any more foolish billionaires left...?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: richtheholtender on July 09, 2020, 11:00:43 PM
Quote from: Risso on July 09, 2020, 10:58:13 PM
My worry now is that the owners have given up already, and think that they've bitten off more than they can chew with English football.  Their complete non action since January is pure negligence.



And it’s not like we haven’t been there before is it
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: rougegorge on July 09, 2020, 11:03:03 PM
The ‘Smith Out’ thread got parked just before lockdown, but looking at the posts after Christmas (around p23 etc), many of us were saying we needed a change then, and you could almost copy and paste comments from then and apply them now.

Nothing changed, we got worse, with the club seemingly hoping the inadequacies of others might save us.

The benefit of hindsight is often used to prove a point. However, in this case, there was foresight from a lot of fans, and the club turned a blind eye and have effectively thrown away all the good work and goodwill from last year.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 09, 2020, 11:03:48 PM
He's woeful.  I honestly can't wait to see the back of him. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on July 09, 2020, 11:05:05 PM
That 4 year contract ffs
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: passport1 on July 09, 2020, 11:05:52 PM
The Eygptian economy isn't in great shape not sure about US sub-prime. They could disappear as quickly as they arrived. The joys of foreign ownership.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 09, 2020, 11:05:57 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on July 09, 2020, 11:05:05 PM
That 4 year contract ffs

Insanity.  As bad as Lambert getting an extension after beating Liverpool.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan82 on July 09, 2020, 11:06:08 PM
Quote from: rougegorge on July 09, 2020, 11:03:03 PM
The benefit of hindsight is often used to prove a point. However, in this case, there was foresight from a lot of fans, and the club turned a blind eye and have effectively thrown away all the good work and goodwill from last year.

It was obvious from about October that the management was the weak link. We pissed away so many points. In fact, no exaggeration, we could have spunked away the 8 points that would have seen us safe.

The players dropped badly in December. They lost faith in him.

Purslow you fool.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aldridgeboy on July 09, 2020, 11:13:41 PM
At Xmas, I was of the opinion that should we go down , I’d like him to stay and get us back up. The crime of not buying enough upfront, is seen enough for him to hopefully be our manager for the long term.

I was wrong. He has to go. I’d even roll the dice now with 4 games to go. As it stands , I don’t see us scoring, yet alone getting a coupe of wins.

Thanks for getting us back up. But out of your depth Dean sadly.  Wish you all the best, as your one of us. But goodbye.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sickbeggar on July 09, 2020, 11:15:36 PM
For me he's really lost it post Covid. With the break i saw this as a month long tournament, not a continuation of the season. And its not the same season in all but name.. He had a chance to re-assess the formation, change things, bring players in from the cold. Other clubs seem to have used that mentality with the extended subs bench and the differing fitness levels. of the player.. Smith seems to have been in suspended amination since April and then just plodded along as before once it re-started
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tomd2103 on July 09, 2020, 11:17:06 PM
Quote from: passport1 on July 09, 2020, 10:55:57 PM
Yes our Head Coach,Director of Football,CEO structure has been a roaring  success.

Noone involved with the playing side of things will come out of this season with any real credit. 

The owners and Purslow have been far too slow to act when it was clear that things were going badly wrong around Christmas time.

Pitarch's transfer strategy has been a failure including a seeming over reliance on Belgian football which isn't near the standard of the Premier League.

The coaching staff have looked out of their depth and been inflexible and while the majority of players simply haven't been up to it, they've also shown a real lack of desire and commitment on too many occasions.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Des Little on July 09, 2020, 11:17:44 PM
Two points from the past thirty available. Let that sink in.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 09, 2020, 11:19:18 PM
Waiting until we were 3-0 down until he made changes was pitiful. I've been mildly in favour of replacig him since Leicester; it's too late now, and I'd rather he managed us next season than over the next four games.

Palace is huge.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on July 09, 2020, 11:22:23 PM
I think he has to go tonight.  But how the he’ll do you even begin to explain the microcosm of our problems that was the pass from Luiz to McGinn tonight that he just left.  Who is responsible for that?    McGinn would never have even dreamed Of doing that a few months ago. And that complete lack of effort isn’t down to his fitness.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 09, 2020, 11:23:53 PM
Sacking him now would be like one of his substitions: should have happened earlier and now too late to make any difference.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on July 09, 2020, 11:25:24 PM
Quote from: tomd2103 on July 09, 2020, 11:17:06 PM
Noone involved with the playing side of things will come out of this season with any real credit.
Tom we are a football club so only thing that matters is playing side so in a nutshell the running of the club has been a total failure.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: andyh on July 09, 2020, 11:25:26 PM
Quote from: Des Little on July 09, 2020, 11:17:44 PM
Two points from the past thirty available. Let that sink in.
Bloody hell, that stings.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on July 09, 2020, 11:28:08 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on July 09, 2020, 11:19:18 PM
Palace is huge.

Is it though?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: David_Nab on July 09, 2020, 11:29:14 PM
Out of his depth and unable to get the team motivated

Bottom 3 all stuck with managers , those who changed now with 4 games left have a 4 point gap...
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 09, 2020, 11:33:54 PM
We we heading straight for the cliff when the season was stopped.

We then got a break of weeks and weeks in which the season was effectively reset and we had time to look at what we had not got right and try to work on it. We had more time to get McGinn fit at the very least, even if it would need games to get him firing properly.

And what happened? We came back even worse, more shapeless, more clueless, and still with a dreadful level of fitness right across the squad.

2 points from the last 30. Remarkable.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 09, 2020, 11:33:59 PM
Quote from: themossman on July 09, 2020, 11:28:08 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on July 09, 2020, 11:19:18 PM
Palace is huge.

Is it though?

It was before the fire.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on July 09, 2020, 11:36:55 PM
I’ve changed my mind as well.  We are mid table championship standard.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: rougegorge on July 09, 2020, 11:43:18 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on July 09, 2020, 11:23:53 PM
Sacking him now would be like one of his substitions: should have happened earlier and now too late to make any difference.
A very good analogy
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on July 09, 2020, 11:52:15 PM
Thank fuck I don't have to rely on many of you being in my corner.

We lacked quality of personnel tonight not tactics. Smith can't be blamed for what happened.

We are, more than likely going down, but in my view we'll be fine next season. It's disappointing to lose again but don't start with the offensive shit he's getting. Please.

We've signed players who just aren't up to it. That we have to play a clearly unfit John McGinn sums it up. He's so far off the pace but there's no one to replace him.

We haven't got a clinical striker.

It's just not Smith's fault.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: David_Nab on July 09, 2020, 11:53:59 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on July 09, 2020, 11:33:54 PM
We we heading straight for the cliff when the season was stopped.

We then got a break of weeks and weeks in which the season was effectively reset and we had time to look at what we had not got right and try to work on it. We had more time to get McGinn fit at the very least, even if it would need games to get him firing properly.

And what happened? We came back even worse, more shapeless, more clueless, and still with a dreadful level of fitness right across the squad.

2 points from the last 30. Remarkable.

Reports where he was one game from sack , reported by Percy from Telegraph who is bang on with Villa stories.The break saved his job but looks like it has condemned us to relegation.

The longer the season has gone the worse we have gotten.The improved defence has come from the nullifying of the attack so we rarely threaten teams.Our full backs offer little in the way of attack and the attacking link up in wide area's is criminal at this level.Luiz must have popped back to City for some training during the break as he is the only one who has improved everyone else has gone backwards or at best stayed the same.

Players are not blameless of course but when its more than one not performing then the issue is with the manager.

Stick with him  , he will bring us back up ...Dyche is one of the only managers to manage that the other is Bruce is a rarity that a manger take's a team down and turns around a losing squad.Especially in the current circumstances where the new season is going to start with very little time to prepare for it.



 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 09, 2020, 11:54:49 PM
Quote from: Drummond on July 09, 2020, 11:52:15 PM
It's just not Smith's fault.
Not his fault solely, I completely agree, but nevertheless he's been terrible.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 09, 2020, 11:56:54 PM
Quote from: Drummond on July 09, 2020, 11:52:15 PM
Thank fuck I don't have to rely on many of you being in my corner.



Thank fuck you don't have anything to do with any business that I'm involved with.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on July 09, 2020, 11:58:43 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on July 09, 2020, 11:54:49 PM
Quote from: Drummond on July 09, 2020, 11:52:15 PM
It's just not Smith's fault.
Not his fault solely, I completely agree, but nevertheless he's been terrible.

And also needs to take his fair share of the blame.  He might at least get them motivated and less cowardly. That is absolutely down to him.  It's a house of cards situation but under no circumstances should Dean be given a pass from some of the turgid shit we see on the football pitch, his domain.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on July 10, 2020, 12:00:33 AM
Quote from: Risso on July 09, 2020, 11:56:54 PM
Quote from: Drummond on July 09, 2020, 11:52:15 PM
Thank fuck I don't have to rely on many of you being in my corner.



Thank fuck you don't have anything to do with any business that I'm involved with.

Agreed. You'd be a shit boss.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on July 10, 2020, 12:01:40 AM
Both of you be nice. Please.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 10, 2020, 12:02:19 AM
Quote from: Drummond on July 10, 2020, 12:00:33 AM
Quote from: Risso on July 09, 2020, 11:56:54 PM
Quote from: Drummond on July 09, 2020, 11:52:15 PM
Thank fuck I don't have to rely on many of you being in my corner.



Thank fuck you don't have anything to do with any business that I'm involved with.

Agreed. You'd be a shit boss.

I'm a brilliant boss.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on July 10, 2020, 12:02:31 AM
In that smith has more influence on what happens on the pitch than any individual player, this is mostly his fault.

But I said on here mid lockdown that I fancied our players to keep themselves fit in lockdown and come back raring to go, with McGinn back as a bonus. How wrong I was. Luiz shows there is no reason the players couldn’t have come back better, fitter, more focused than before the break. The rest of them, all of them, are as bad as they’ve been at any point in the season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on July 10, 2020, 12:02:43 AM
Quote from: themossman on July 09, 2020, 11:28:08 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on July 09, 2020, 11:19:18 PM
Palace is huge.

Is it though?
Depends if it’s Versailles or Istana Nur?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 10, 2020, 12:02:44 AM
Both of you pack it in.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 10, 2020, 12:03:09 AM
11 more goals and we'll have conceded as many goals as we did last time we went down.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on July 10, 2020, 12:12:32 AM
It's always the same. Every player, coach manager, director and owner is shit and the world is ending.

The reality is that we did pretty well for a large part of the game. That we had a penalty given against us, that was questionable at best, then did for the mentality of the team on the pitch.

That's a clear area of weakness. But that's not all down to Smith.

Look at the first few pages of this thread, are you all accepting that you were wrong then? Or are you wrong now?

Smith has had teams playing good football, it takes time and he's had two pretty average squads to work with. In my view he did really well last season, and less so this. Get rid of him and we have to start all over again.

Anyway, I'm off to bed. Sleep tight all.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: wince on July 10, 2020, 12:13:57 AM
You know what, if smith is sacked he will be the scapegoat. The entire recruitment and coaching staff need to go as it’s a collective clusterfuck
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 10, 2020, 12:17:52 AM
Quote from: Drummond on July 10, 2020, 12:12:32 AM
The reality is that we did pretty well for a large part of the game. That we had a penalty given against us, that was questionable at best, then did for the mentality of the team on the pitch.
Come off it: we played well for about 25 minutes.  We had 33% possession and 1 shot on goal in the entire match.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on July 10, 2020, 12:18:22 AM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on July 10, 2020, 12:17:52 AM
Quote from: Drummond on July 10, 2020, 12:12:32 AM
The reality is that we did pretty well for a large part of the game. That we had a penalty given against us, that was questionable at best, then did for the mentality of the team on the pitch.
Come off it: we played well for about 25 minutes.  We had 33% possession and 1 shot on goal in the entire match.

And that's being generous. It wasn't even 25 minutes.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 10, 2020, 12:21:04 AM
We'd just hit the post before their penalty, up to the penalty we were much the better side. After it we were shite.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on July 10, 2020, 12:22:08 AM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on July 10, 2020, 12:21:04 AM
We'd just hit the post before their penalty, up to the penalty we were much the better side. After it we were shite.

Genuine question, do you think it was all the fault of a bad decision and we'd have continued on being the better side if not for the ref and VAR being useless?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 10, 2020, 12:24:13 AM
Who knows, the only thing we know for sure is we were a completely different side after that moment.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 10, 2020, 12:26:01 AM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on July 10, 2020, 12:24:13 AM
Who knows, the only thing we know for sure is we were a completely different side after that moment.

The problem is, that is how we've been all season.

How many times have we done the bright start - concede to ineptitude or bad luck, either will do - totally collapse routine?

It's easily the most common story of our season.

As i said earlier, there is no collective heart to this team, none at all.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on July 10, 2020, 12:26:13 AM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on July 10, 2020, 12:24:13 AM
Who knows, the only thing we know for sure is we were a completely different side after that moment.

Or they were.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 10, 2020, 12:27:11 AM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on July 10, 2020, 12:26:13 AM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on July 10, 2020, 12:24:13 AM
Who knows, the only thing we know for sure is we were a completely different side after that moment.

Or they were.

So you don't think we were a totally different side after it?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sickbeggar on July 10, 2020, 12:29:01 AM
Quote from: wince on July 10, 2020, 12:13:57 AM
You know what, if smith is sacked he will be the scapegoat. The entire recruitment and coaching staff need to go as it’s a collective clusterfuck


well the whole summer spending spree and the reasons behind it is the real answer. If we'd started the season with Abraham as our player then i reckon he would have got double figures which would have solved the fucking major problem in staying up. Add to that about 5 players who played 30 games or more needing to be replaced for various reasons. For better or worse, our two promotions rivals came up with sides they added to once up. We had to build a new one.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on July 10, 2020, 12:29:44 AM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on July 10, 2020, 12:26:13 AM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on July 10, 2020, 12:24:13 AM
Who knows, the only thing we know for sure is we were a completely different side after that moment.

Or they were.

Or both.

It was pivotal. Give everything, do well, then get (effectively) cheated and morale takes a dip. Concentration suffers and we're 2 down.

Blame Smith all you like, but when you're in the position we're in, decisions like that cost a lot more than a goal.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 10, 2020, 12:31:00 AM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on July 10, 2020, 12:27:11 AM
So you don't think we were a totally different side after it?
You say that as if it wasn't our fault.  If we fold to such an extent when something goes against us, that's entirely down to us.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on July 10, 2020, 12:32:28 AM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on July 10, 2020, 12:31:00 AM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on July 10, 2020, 12:27:11 AM
So you don't think we were a totally different side after it?
You say that as if it wasn't our fault.  If we fold to such an extent when something goes against us, that's entirely down to us.

Is it? At a pivotal point in the season, a decision against us is given and then backed up by someone else, and you blame us?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 10, 2020, 12:33:02 AM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on July 10, 2020, 12:31:00 AM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on July 10, 2020, 12:27:11 AM
So you don't think we were a totally different side after it?
You say that as if it wasn't our fault.  If we fold to such an extent when something goes against us, that's entirely down to us.

I've previously said our lack of fight was shit and gave most players a 0. It doesn't alter that a shit decision that should never have happened had a massively negative effect on us.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OzVilla on July 10, 2020, 12:34:32 AM
I just want to see some fight, fucking surround the Ref when he gives that penalty, go barmy, make a fucking scene, take a yellow when they are on the break at half time, be fucking arseholes.  Anything.

We are so fucking meek its embarrassing.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 10, 2020, 12:34:37 AM
Quote from: Drummond on July 10, 2020, 12:32:28 AM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on July 10, 2020, 12:31:00 AM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on July 10, 2020, 12:27:11 AM
So you don't think we were a totally different side after it?
You say that as if it wasn't our fault.  If we fold to such an extent when something goes against us, that's entirely down to us.

Is it? At a pivotal point in the season, a decision against us is given and then backed up by someone else, and you blame us?
Of course I do.  We gave up.  65 minutes feeling sorry for ourselves is completely unacceptable.  The game wasn't over at 0-1.  I just can't believe you're defending that performance and claim that it's not our fault.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 10, 2020, 12:36:48 AM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on July 10, 2020, 12:33:02 AM
I've previously said our lack of fight was shit and gave most players a 0. It doesn't alter that a shit decision that should never have happened had a massively negative effect on us.
An unjustifiably negative effect.  It's not the first time and it won't be the last the we - or any other team - gets fucked over.  So fucking what?  Get over yourselves and get back into the game.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on July 10, 2020, 12:39:14 AM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on July 10, 2020, 12:31:00 AM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on July 10, 2020, 12:27:11 AM
So you don't think we were a totally different side after it?
You say that as if it wasn't our fault.  If we fold to such an extent when something goes against us, that's entirely down to us.

This is it for me.

Also @ PWS: I don't think we did ourselves any favours after the penalty shout, certainly not, but we didn't do ourselves any favours before it either, did we? We had opportunities to test their keeper and completely failed to do so. Then goals 2 and 3 were entirely our own doing, and were (IMO) avoidable, so I don't trace that same line that you're implying between the 27th minute (cause) and everything that happened after that (effect). It was just a shit performance where we failed to meaningfully challenge the opposition at any point - again.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sickbeggar on July 10, 2020, 12:46:59 AM
Well a brave manager faced with certain defeat would have maybe tried some of the reserves or kids or a different formation or anything to change our luck. I realise he would have got panned when it failed but something he tried or some player he selected could have come off and been tried for the next 4 games. As it is, we're all expecting him to go into the next game with no new ideas, no forward line and no optimism. Bizarrely it always seems to be the case where the nearer a manager gets to losing his job, the less adventurous they get.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OzVilla on July 10, 2020, 01:54:49 AM
I think he's just utterly bereft of ideas now so he's going with what he's got and hoping for something to happen. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 10, 2020, 05:00:57 AM
Quote from: OzVilla on July 10, 2020, 01:54:49 AM
I think he's just utterly bereft of ideas now so he's going with what he's got and hoping for something to happen.
I don’t think he has had much of a clue for sometime, you can tell by the body language and the look on the faces of anyone that happens to have that lion on their chest.
They know everything is in hope and not expectation.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on July 10, 2020, 07:49:16 AM
That second half last night was so meek.  The half time team talk should have been about being spurred on because of the injustice of the penalty.  Instead, it was about not conceding a hatful of goals and damage limitation.  We sulked our way through the game.  It was a terrible penalty but we HAVE to fight a damn sight harder than we are doing at the moment.  2 points from the last 10 games is almost like death by a thousand cuts.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OzVilla on July 10, 2020, 07:56:48 AM
And with the penalty we just seemed to meekly accept it, there was hardly a murmur from anyone.  We should have been haranguing the Ref after that, show you're furious so we might get something evened up or at least send a message that they're fucked off with the injustice. Matic whinged on and on after a free kick wasn't given to him so it was no surprise they get a soft one handed to them on a plate 20 mins later.

We just seem to collectively shrug our shoulders.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VinnieChase84 on July 10, 2020, 07:58:35 AM
Quote from: Newby on July 10, 2020, 07:49:16 AM
That second half last night was so meek.  The half time team talk should have been about being spurred on because of the injustice of the penalty.  Instead, it was about not conceding a hatful of goals and damage limitation.  We sulked our way through the game.  It was a terrible penalty but we HAVE to fight a damn sight harder than we are doing at the moment.  2 points from the last 10 games is almost like death by a thousand cuts.

Agree. I’m more pissed off and angry with the second half ‘performance’ than I am the diabolical VAR. The travesty of justice should have been used to spur on a response. We are the weakest, most fragile minded group in the league by a mile. Where does this mindset come from? Surely top down? Look at Bournemouth, they came out second half v United and had them rattled in the first 10 minutes of the second half at the weekend. Have it a proper go.
We sulk, winge and when going gets tough just roll over and let our belly’s get tickled.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: oldhill_avfc on July 10, 2020, 08:01:29 AM
Quote from: wince on July 10, 2020, 12:13:57 AM
You know what, if smith is sacked he will be the scapegoat. The entire recruitment and coaching staff need to go as it’s a collective clusterfuck

Total over reaction. 

It was a massive task to rebuild the squad to premiership standard with the money allowed.

Yes there have been mistakes but I don’t see major unexpected errors.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 10, 2020, 08:02:23 AM
Quote from: OzVilla on July 10, 2020, 07:56:48 AM
And with the penalty we just seemed to meekly accept it, there was hardly a murmur from anyone.  We should have been haranguing the Ref after that, show you're furious so we might get something evened up or at least send a message that they're fucked off with the injustice. Matic whinged on and on after a free kick wasn't given to him so it was no surprise they get a soft one handed to them on a plate 20 mins later.

We just seem to collectively our shrug shoulders.
This is what has been bugging me for some time, we don’t complain we seem to be in some Edwardian time warp, I say old chap if you think it’s a penalty then good for you, yes Sir referee, absolutely fine for those good fellows to keep kicking our best player but of course we should be punished for even the tiniest transgressions.
Would you like to pop round later and roger my wife ?, no JT I was talking to Sir .
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aev on July 10, 2020, 08:02:43 AM

Most other managers would have been all over the ref at half time. Smith seems such a nice bloke, it is as if we are playing as the Corinthian Casuals.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on July 10, 2020, 08:19:47 AM
The seeds of our destruction last night lie on the whole approach to the 10-game mini-league, at the start of which Smith said he felt the squad was fitter and more aware of its previous shortfalls and had learned from them. He then sent the teams against SheffU and Newcastle particularly (but Chelsea and Dogheads as well) with a 'let's not lose' approach. Totally wrong mindset.
If we'd won against SheffU and Newcastle, we'd be in a different place and our approach  to last night's game would have been entirely different.
Poor decision-making and poor management.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Des Little on July 10, 2020, 08:49:24 AM
Quote from: oldhill_avfc on July 10, 2020, 08:01:29 AM
Quote from: wince on July 10, 2020, 12:13:57 AM
You know what, if smith is sacked he will be the scapegoat. The entire recruitment and coaching staff need to go as it’s a collective clusterfuck

Total over reaction. 

It was a massive task to rebuild the squad to premiership standard with the money allowed.

Yes there have been mistakes but I don’t see major unexpected errors.

I disagree.  Look at the players we have recruited, what we paid and the performances they have served up.  I firmly believe that a lot of these duds (which they clearly are) have been brought to the club by a man who has no idea of what it takes to survive in the English top tier.  It's also my opinion that Smith has had to integrate these players into a team that's not his preferred choice, but he's tried to make it go because he loves this club and it's the job of his dreams.

People are talking about Smith wanting Maupay, Benrahma, Webster and instead getting Trezeguet, Samatta and Engels. This may be true, it may not but I know who I'd rather have in the team.  Our recruitment has, on the whole, been absolutely woeful - and this is borne out by the abject performances we are having to endure.  Start the inquest.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 10, 2020, 08:56:33 AM
It isn’t just Smiths fault but he has failed in one of the most important aspects of his job.
He has been useless at game management, just a few more points from winning positions and we would be close to safety.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VinnieChase84 on July 10, 2020, 09:06:57 AM
JT and Smith will go after this - regardless of what happens next four matches
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on July 10, 2020, 09:09:44 AM
how on earth are we going to shift this shite? In 2016 we at least had a few  players people actually wanted to buy. Other than Jack, Mings, McGinn and possibly Heaton, we're stuck with the rest.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on July 10, 2020, 09:13:22 AM
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on July 10, 2020, 09:06:57 AM
JT and Smith will go after this - regardless of what happens next four matches

I think you're right.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AlwaysVilla on July 10, 2020, 09:17:20 AM
Every manager is judged on two primary things. His ability with game management and tactics,  and the other, the quality of players he signs to play the system he wants. No doubt he has been found wanting with the former, particular continuing with the same team and poor subs. However, I feel he has not been helped by the poor quality of our purchases.

We spent a lot of money, we had too, but even that much doesn't buy guaranteed Prem quality.  We know he wanted Phillips, Maupay and Benrahma but that would have cost 65 million minimum for Championship players and we needed at least 10 players, so we ended up with poor quality imports. The cost of Targett and Konza tells us how much Prem players would have cost.  The owners set a budget and we needed yo spread it thinly. I'm not convinced Smith got his choice of players at all.

This doesn't excuse him being tactically inept at times, but what has changing managers done in the past but cause further turmoil. Maybe he deserves sacking but I do wonder if anyone else would have fared better when the club was not ready for the Prem.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on July 10, 2020, 09:22:17 AM
Exactly right Always Villa.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on July 10, 2020, 09:22:19 AM
I’m hoping if his cards are marked I do hope they have already been on the look out. It’s ruthless but when Southampton binned Adkins for Poch they were looking ahead and not just ambling along.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan82 on July 10, 2020, 09:24:31 AM
You know what, 65 million would have been an awful lot of money to spend on three championship players unproven in the top flight.

I think Benrahma might be the one we missed out on, he would have been a better option than Trez.

Douglas Luiz is a a quality player and a midfield of him, McGinn and Grealish with Nakamba & Hourihane as back-up should have done better over the season.

I think we were foolish to rule out loans. An experienced head or two at the start of the season would have been useful.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VinnieChase84 on July 10, 2020, 09:24:31 AM
Quote from: Ads on July 10, 2020, 09:13:22 AM
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on July 10, 2020, 09:06:57 AM
JT and Smith will go after this - regardless of what happens next four matches

I think you're right.

Issue is. They both know it
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on July 10, 2020, 09:31:47 AM
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on July 10, 2020, 09:24:31 AM
Quote from: Ads on July 10, 2020, 09:13:22 AM
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on July 10, 2020, 09:06:57 AM
JT and Smith will go after this - regardless of what happens next four matches

I think you're right.

Issue is. They both know it

You heard out about who might be a replacement?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dicedlam on July 10, 2020, 09:38:14 AM
One of the many failures of Smith's management was to make Grealish captain.

How on earth he saw an immature kid as a leader is mystifying.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on July 10, 2020, 09:38:35 AM
Quote from: AlwaysVilla on July 10, 2020, 09:17:20 AM
Every manager is judged on two primary things. His ability with game management and tactics,  and the other, the quality of players he signs to play the system he wants. No doubt he has been found wanting with the former, particular continuing with the same team and poor subs. However, I feel he has not been helped by the poor quality of our purchases.

We spent a lot of money, we had too, but even that much doesn't buy guaranteed Prem quality.  We know he wanted Phillips, Maupay and Benrahma but that would have cost 65 million minimum for Championship players and we needed at least 10 players, so we ended up with poor quality imports. The cost of Targett and Konza tells us how much Prem players would have cost.  The owners set a budget and we needed yo spread it thinly. I'm not convinced Smith got his choice of players at all.

This doesn't excuse him being tactically inept at times, but what has changing managers done in the past but cause further turmoil. Maybe he deserves sacking but I do wonder if anyone else would have fared better when the club was not ready for the Prem.
Konza cost us about what you'd pay for a decent up-and-coming CB; and he will be much-improved and continue to improve. Targett was overpriced.
The costs were significantly skewed by the prices paid for the completely-untested Trez, Engels and Nakamba (c.£25m in total): this could have been spent on Phillips or Maupay, with some faith being put in 2-3 of our youth players to make up the squad numbers (these latter wouldn't  - with hindsight - have been any worse than we got from Trez, for example). Or, we could have got Bowen in in August ...
It's the recruitment that killed us, along with Smith's inexperience (as you say, Always).
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on July 10, 2020, 09:38:59 AM
I think he has made a mess of things since the re-start. Not knowing his No1 goalkeeper out of what he had, and making the same substitutions is another. I didn't really see the point in throwing Davis on at 2-0 last night then throwing the young kid on with 5 minutes to go. And you can always guarantee Nakamba and Hourihane will come on at some point as well. It's all seemed a bit desperate and predictable.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Holte L2 on July 10, 2020, 09:39:39 AM
Quote from: Ads on July 10, 2020, 09:31:47 AM
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on July 10, 2020, 09:24:31 AM
Quote from: Ads on July 10, 2020, 09:13:22 AM
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on July 10, 2020, 09:06:57 AM
JT and Smith will go after this - regardless of what happens next four matches

I think you're right.

Issue is. They both know it

You heard out about who might be a replacement?

The thing i keep coming back to is, who are we going to get in that would do any better?

Whichever way you look at it those group of players aren't good enough at this level. And if thats Suso and Purslow's recruitment then they need to be held accountable.
Smith's job title is head coach. Not Manager.
Dyche has been suggested but I'd still doubt that he would be able to get any better out of the squad. Thats the same Dyche that relegated Burnley in their first season back in the Premiership.
We all new this season would be a struggle based on the turnaround in numbers of the playing squad.
I'd stick with Deano and get rid of Suso.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on July 10, 2020, 09:42:42 AM
Quote from: Clampy on July 10, 2020, 09:38:59 AM
I think he has made a mess of things since the re-start. Not knowing his No1 goalkeeper out of what he had, and making the same substitutions is another. I didn't really see the point in throwing Davis on at 2-0 last night then throwing the young kid on with 5 minutes to go. And you can always guarantee Nakamba and Hourihane will come on at some point as well. It's all seemed a bit desperate and predictable.
This.
The seeds of our destruction last night lie on the whole approach to the 10-game mini-league, at the start of which Smith said he felt the squad was fitter and more aware of its previous shortfalls and had learned from them. He then sent the teams against SheffU and Newcastle particularly (but Chelsea and Dogheads as well) with a 'let's not lose' approach. Totally wrong mindset.
If we'd won against SheffU and Newcastle, we'd be in a different place and our approach  to last night's game would have been entirely different.
Poor decision-making and poor management.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on July 10, 2020, 09:42:50 AM
Quote from: dicedlam on July 10, 2020, 09:38:14 AM
One of the many failures of Smith's management was to make Grealish captain.

How on earth he saw an immature kid as a leader is mystifying.

He helped lead that surge last season. We just haven’t been good enough. For large parts this season he has done the same. That’s not why we’re in huge danger of being relegated.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on July 10, 2020, 09:48:23 AM
I was thinking about what the reaction of the crowd would have been to this post-lockdown shambles and I think last night would have been the tipping point when fans' frustration would have finally spilled over. Players surrendering on the pitch, relegation looking certain, gloating Man United fans....

Depressing, no other way to look at relegation but as a disaster - in a footballing context at least



 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on July 10, 2020, 09:54:47 AM
more so - if the owners do a Randy, we're fooked.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VinnieChase84 on July 10, 2020, 09:57:01 AM
Quote from: mr underhill on July 10, 2020, 09:54:47 AM
more so - if the owners do a Randy, we're fooked.

They are in it for the long haul.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 10, 2020, 10:00:32 AM
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on July 10, 2020, 09:57:01 AM
Quote from: mr underhill on July 10, 2020, 09:54:47 AM
more so - if the owners do a Randy, we're fooked.

They are in it for the long haul.
How do you know this?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VinnieChase84 on July 10, 2020, 10:08:30 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on July 10, 2020, 10:00:32 AM
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on July 10, 2020, 09:57:01 AM
Quote from: mr underhill on July 10, 2020, 09:54:47 AM
more so - if the owners do a Randy, we're fooked.

They are in it for the long haul.
How do you know this?

solely based on their initial project. They came in with a 5 year plan for building academy etc. The medium/long term goals have not altered. We had planned no promotion so this 'blip' has not taken us away from the initial plan
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on July 10, 2020, 10:43:37 AM
I bet the hemorrhaging of money has though
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 10, 2020, 10:51:39 AM
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on July 10, 2020, 10:08:30 AM
solely based on their initial project. They came in with a 5 year plan for building academy etc. The medium/long term goals have not altered. We had planned no promotion so this 'blip' has not taken us away from the initial plan
I bet 'The Plan' didn't involve us being in the Championship for 2020/21
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on July 10, 2020, 10:53:02 AM
Adidas profit increased, as did their profit margins. And thats just one of the business (admittedly he is but a shareholder) that one of our obscenely rich owners has a stake in.

I don't think they're too arsed about spending money on us or losing it. They make the man baby look like a Big Issue seller.

Nobody buys a football club and expects to make money.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VinnieChase84 on July 10, 2020, 11:16:40 AM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on July 10, 2020, 10:51:39 AM
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on July 10, 2020, 10:08:30 AM
solely based on their initial project. They came in with a 5 year plan for building academy etc. The medium/long term goals have not altered. We had planned no promotion so this 'blip' has not taken us away from the initial plan
I bet 'The Plan' didn't involve us being in the Championship for 2020/21

Course it didn’t but we’ve been given the increased cash one year ahead of schedule. We will look to bounce back straight away but with the right men in place to them keep us in the Prem
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Des Little on July 10, 2020, 11:51:41 AM
I look forward to seeing the outcome of this inquest into the recruitment, and fully expect some major changes to be the result. I’d like to think that we still have the clout (if not the PL status) to go to some proven successes in this field and entice them to come and help get us back up where we want to be. I’m looking at the likes of Dan Ashworth, currently at Brighton; he’s very highly regarded and appears to have done a great job there.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VinnieChase84 on July 10, 2020, 12:00:58 PM
Quote from: Des Little on July 10, 2020, 11:51:41 AM
I look forward to seeing the outcome of this inquest into the recruitment, and fully expect some major changes to be the result. I’d like to think that we still have the clout (if not the PL status) to go to some proven successes in this field and entice them to come and help get us back up where we want to be. I’m looking at the likes of Dan Ashworth, currently at Brighton; he’s very highly regarded and appears to have done a great job there.

👍🏻
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on July 10, 2020, 12:05:31 PM
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on July 10, 2020, 09:24:31 AM
Quote from: Ads on July 10, 2020, 09:13:22 AM
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on July 10, 2020, 09:06:57 AM
JT and Smith will go after this - regardless of what happens next four matches

I think you're right.

Issue is. They both know it

If true that is depressing/stupid. Why would they do anything more than go through the motions if they know they're toast come what may ?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OzVilla on July 10, 2020, 12:08:07 PM
Personal pride in their performance?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ez on July 10, 2020, 12:15:04 PM
I noticed Smith had hardly anything to say to the players during the second half drink break.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on July 10, 2020, 12:17:49 PM
Quote from: OzVilla on July 10, 2020, 12:08:07 PM
Personal pride in their performance?

A bonus if we stay up, more likely.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Luke8 on July 10, 2020, 12:30:23 PM
Quote from: Des Little on July 10, 2020, 11:51:41 AM
I look forward to seeing the outcome of this inquest into the recruitment, and fully expect some major changes to be the result. I’d like to think that we still have the clout (if not the PL status) to go to some proven successes in this field and entice them to come and help get us back up where we want to be. I’m looking at the likes of Dan Ashworth, currently at Brighton; he’s very highly regarded and appears to have done a great job there.

I appreciate I’m probably boring people, and in the minority, with this opinion, but I don’t think you can absolutely hammer people over the recruitment.

It absolutely could have gone better, but it’s very easy to say that with the benefit of hindsight.

The reality is that the squad that was inherited by the owners and this manager was unbalanced, ageing and nowhere near Premier League standard. We got promoted and had what, two decent standard premier league players and probably 3-4 useful squad players. That’s a hell of a job to then put together a decent squad for this season, never mind the fact that we were hampered by financial fair play restrictions due to our pretty reckless spending under the previous regime.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OzVilla on July 10, 2020, 12:33:55 PM
Agreed, we had 13 players to get in for around £130 million. That really is bargain basement squad building at PL level. Could we have spent better, yes. But could we have spent more, no.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 10, 2020, 12:40:46 PM
Quote from: Luke8 on July 10, 2020, 12:30:23 PM
Quote from: Des Little on July 10, 2020, 11:51:41 AM
I look forward to seeing the outcome of this inquest into the recruitment, and fully expect some major changes to be the result. I’d like to think that we still have the clout (if not the PL status) to go to some proven successes in this field and entice them to come and help get us back up where we want to be. I’m looking at the likes of Dan Ashworth, currently at Brighton; he’s very highly regarded and appears to have done a great job there.

I appreciate I’m probably boring people, and in the minority, with this opinion, but I don’t think you can absolutely hammer people over the recruitment.

It absolutely could have gone better, but it’s very easy to say that with the benefit of hindsight.

The reality is that the squad that was inherited by the owners and this manager was unbalanced, ageing and nowhere near Premier League standard. We got promoted and had what, two decent standard premier league players and probably 3-4 useful squad players. That’s a hell of a job to then put together a decent squad for this season, never mind the fact that we were hampered by financial fair play restrictions due to our pretty reckless spending under the previous regime.

It's not boring at all Luke, it's always nice to read reasoned opposite views.  I simply don't agree with it though.  Yes, it was difficult to put a squad together after all the departures, but I think they could and should have done much better.  99% of people on here said that going into the season with just Wesley as our main striker was a recipe for disaster.  That's not said with the benefit of hinsight, it was just a very obvious and monumental fuck up. 

Then there was the choice to trust Pitarch's recommendations, a man with no experience of English footballers, and whose picks all seem to be rubbish players from the Belgian league.

Then when it was apparent in the New Year that we were struggling badly in the league and had lost our main keeper and striker, their business or lack of was again almost criminally bad.  We needed pace and goals, so they got the slowest, most unfit midfielder they could find, and another bang average plodder from Belgium.  They deserve to go down for the crap way they've run the club this year, it's just a shame that it's we as fans who will suffer because of it.  Purslow should be forced to sit in a room with the video of him comparing Villa to Norwich on a loop for 24 hours, the shit, oily, useless bastard.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: wince on July 10, 2020, 12:41:09 PM
Quote from: oldhill_avfc on July 10, 2020, 08:01:29 AM
Quote from: wince on July 10, 2020, 12:13:57 AM
You know what, if smith is sacked he will be the scapegoat. The entire recruitment and coaching staff need to go as it’s a collective clusterfuck

Total over reaction. 

It was a massive task to rebuild the squad to premiership standard with the money allowed.

Yes there have been mistakes but I don’t see major unexpected errors.

I disagree. Inability to work set-pieces, lack of fitness and inability to pass a football. Our training is one dimensional and has been for a while, relying on 10 minute spells and inviting pressure. Notwithstanding one of the leading defenders in the number 2 position and our Defense has been terrifying. I know we needed an entire squad at the start of the season but they haven’t gelled and our approach was no different to the young and hungry days of lambert. FFP May have stopped us spending more but what we have bought are players that may come good in a season or two. Combine this with tactical naive manager and it’s a recipe for disaster. I don’t agree that a championship manager can’t thrive in the prem as look at Sheffield united. That’s what we have to do. They were pulling up trees in the championship and have continued to do the same along with wolves in the prem. I had hoped we could do the same with smith but the entire set up we have is inconsistent and we need to fix this as a priority. Coupled with not fixing the strike force in the summer and again in January means we could be in games all we like, but without a striker......

Saving grace is we are looking a lot better going down than we did last time so I hope we can come back up off the back of a great run. If we stay up I fear we will be in this position again next year. Better to reign in hell than serve in heaven I suppose.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Luke8 on July 10, 2020, 01:14:19 PM
Quote from: Risso on July 10, 2020, 12:40:46 PM
It's not boring at all Luke, it's always nice to read reasoned opposite views.  I simply don't agree with it though.  Yes, it was difficult to put a squad together after all the departures, but I think they could and should have done much better.  99% of people on here said that going into the season with just Wesley as our main striker was a recipe for disaster.  That's not said with the benefit of hinsight, it was just a very obvious and monumental fuck up. 

Then there was the choice to trust Pitarch's recommendations, a man with no experience of English footballers, and whose picks all seem to be rubbish players from the Belgian league.

Then when it was apparent in the New Year that we were struggling badly in the league and had lost our main keeper and striker, their business or lack of was again almost criminally bad.  We needed pace and goals, so they got the slowest, most unfit midfielder they could find, and another bang average plodder from Belgium.  They deserve to go down for the crap way they've run the club this year, it's just a shame that it's we as fans who will suffer because of it.  Purslow should be forced to sit in a room with the video of him comparing Villa to Norwich on a loop for 24 hours, the shit, oily, useless bastard.




I’m not sure it would have ever been the plan to only have Wesley, especially given that Smith clearly didn’t rate/trust Kodjia. I imagine it was to do with availability of strikers that we wanted and the cost involved with bringing them in. Same sort of issue with a number of players where I think it’s fairly obvious that we had to settle for our 2nd/3rd choices.

I agree that January wasn’t great. I wouldn’t particularly defend the business we did with regards to the players that we bought in, but we inevitably had a plan of what we wanted to do and then that went out of the window within the space of a week right at the last minute when we lost three of our key players to long term injuries.

Also, it’s a notoriously tough window. Looking at the deals done, I can’t see many realistic ones across the league where I feel that they would have made a huge amount of difference.

I don’t want it to seem that they are beyond criticism - they aren’t - and there are definitely things that could have been done better but I also thing there were a lot of extenuating  circumstances.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan82 on July 10, 2020, 01:19:02 PM
A good manager can get above average performances and results out of average players and good performances and good results out of players that are just above average.

We are not world beaters, by any stretch, but an experienced premier league manager would have found a way to get the 38 + points with a squad containing a core of Heaton, Mings, McGinn, Grealish and Luiz. Even a Bruce would have found a way of getting something with those resources. He has with Newcastle, for example, and I don't think the Newcastle squad is all that much better than ours.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 10, 2020, 01:23:00 PM
Quote from: Villan82 on July 10, 2020, 01:19:02 PM
A good manager can get above average performances and results out of average players and good performances and good results out of players that are just above average.

We are not world beaters, by any stretch, but an experienced premier league manager would have found a way to get the 38 + points with a squad containing a core of Heaton, Mings, McGinn, Grealish and Luiz. Even a Bruce would have found a way of getting something with those resources. He has with Newcastle, for example, and I don't think the Newcastle squad is all that much better than ours.
We can argue the toss about recruitment and how much responsibility Smith has for this. However we have had enough opportunities and resources to do better than 18th.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 10, 2020, 01:24:10 PM
Quote from: Luke8 on July 10, 2020, 01:14:19 PM

I’m not sure it would have ever been the plan to only have Wesley, especially given that Smith clearly didn’t rate/trust Kodjia. I imagine it was to do with availability of strikers that we wanted and the cost involved with bringing them in. Same sort of issue with a number of players where I think it’s fairly obvious that we had to settle for our 2nd/3rd choices.
That's a misguided approach right off the bat.  If you're very light in the striking department you sign strikers.  It's not good enough to say 'well the ones we wanted weren't available'; the management team have to find a way.  If you don't you end up in the situation where you have to play several games without a striker.  It's madness and for a Premier League club very embarrassing.  Virtually everyone on here knew it was going to be a problem and so it was.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 10, 2020, 01:25:02 PM
Quote from: Villan82 on July 10, 2020, 01:19:02 PM
A good manager can get above average performances and results out of average players and good performances and good results out of players that are just above average.

We are not world beaters, by any stretch, but an experienced premier league manager would have found a way to get the 38 + points with a squad containing a core of Heaton, Mings, McGinn, Grealish and Luiz. Even a Bruce would have found a way of getting something with those resources. He has with Newcastle, for example, and I don't think the Newcastle squad is all that much better than ours.



Quite.  You tend to find in life that there are people who get on and do stuff, then there are people who are constantly making excuses.  Sheffield United have no real right to be where they are now.  They've got a lot of the same squad they had in League 1, and didn't very much in the summer at all.  Yet their manager has got them well organised and very hard to beat.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 10, 2020, 01:28:08 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on July 10, 2020, 01:24:10 PM
Quote from: Luke8 on July 10, 2020, 01:14:19 PM

I’m not sure it would have ever been the plan to only have Wesley, especially given that Smith clearly didn’t rate/trust Kodjia. I imagine it was to do with availability of strikers that we wanted and the cost involved with bringing them in. Same sort of issue with a number of players where I think it’s fairly obvious that we had to settle for our 2nd/3rd choices.
That's a misguided approach right off the bat.  If you're very light in the striking department you sign strikers.  It's not good enough to say 'well the ones we wanted weren't available'; the management team have to find a way.  If you don't you end up in the situation where you have to play several games without a striker.  It's madness and for a Premier League club very embarrassing.  Virtually everyone on here knew it was going to be a problem and so it was.

Maupay was available, and cost a similar amount to Wesley.  If we'd got him, even as the sole striker, we'd be better off than we are now I reckon.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on July 10, 2020, 01:30:57 PM
I reckon we may have been able to buy better, but not in Maupay, he'd have ended up a Premier League versoon of Hogan for us the way we play, we need some physicallity up top.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SheffieldVillain on July 10, 2020, 01:39:42 PM
Maupay's got a very similar strike rate to Wesley this season as well - 9 in 32 (goal in every 3.55 games) compared with 6 in 22 (goal every 3.66 games).
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT on July 10, 2020, 01:49:05 PM
Quote from: SheffieldVillain on July 10, 2020, 01:39:42 PM
Maupay's got a very similar strike rate to Wesley this season as well - 9 in 32 (goal in every 3.55 games) compared with 6 in 22 (goal every 3.66 games).

Maupay is a nasty little sod though, opponents hate him. We’d have loved him. If we’d have signed him though he’d have gained weight and lost pace after a few months at BMH.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Luke8 on July 10, 2020, 01:51:55 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on July 10, 2020, 01:24:10 PM
Quote from: Luke8 on July 10, 2020, 01:14:19 PM

I’m not sure it would have ever been the plan to only have Wesley, especially given that Smith clearly didn’t rate/trust Kodjia. I imagine it was to do with availability of strikers that we wanted and the cost involved with bringing them in. Same sort of issue with a number of players where I think it’s fairly obvious that we had to settle for our 2nd/3rd choices.
That's a misguided approach right off the bat.  If you're very light in the striking department you sign strikers.  It's not good enough to say 'well the ones we wanted weren't available'; the management team have to find a way.  If you don't you end up in the situation where you have to play several games without a striker.  It's madness and for a Premier League club very embarrassing.  Virtually everyone on here knew it was going to be a problem and so it was.

That’s a very simplistic way of looking at it though. You could make that point very easily about a lot of other clubs that were in a better position than us. Why didn’t Manchester City buy another centre back? Why didn’t Manchester United just buy Bruno Fernandes in the summer? Transfers are invariable very complicated.

I’m not arguing it wasn’t a mistake. It looked like it would be and it’s been proven to be the case, but I’m just saying there are many other factors that come into it rather than just ‘we should have gone and bought a striker’.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Luke8 on July 10, 2020, 01:54:33 PM
Quote from: SheffieldVillain on July 10, 2020, 01:39:42 PM
Maupay's got a very similar strike rate to Wesley this season as well - 9 in 32 (goal in every 3.55 games) compared with 6 in 22 (goal every 3.66 games).

Quite. Plus the transfer went through two months later. I can imagine how calm and rational it would have been on here had we not signed a striker up to that point!
It’s quite conceivable that there was haggling over the fee or perhaps wanting the player to push for a move more - if we were even interested.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AlwaysVilla on July 10, 2020, 01:58:23 PM
Another of the reasons the likes of Maupay, Benrahma and Phiilips were players on Smith' radar, were also the wages factor. The owners seem to making sure that our wage bill doesn't spiral out of hand with rumours of a 45k per week ceiling, especially if we ended up relegated. That being said buying established Prem players on huge fees and wages was just never going to be possible. Would we really have taken on Benteke and his 100k a week wages? A player that has barely scored since leaving Villa Park. I feel we ended up in a difficult situation, needing to buy too many players, with not enough money, for the best league in the world and just crossed our fingers those we bought might succeed...and its failed as our scouting couldn't find the gems we needed from abroad. The question is now, what will our owners change next season ?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 10, 2020, 01:59:53 PM
Quote from: Luke8 on July 10, 2020, 01:51:55 PM
I’m not arguing it wasn’t a mistake. It looked like it would be and it’s been proven to be the case, but I’m just saying there are many other factors that come into it rather than just ‘we should have gone and bought a striker’.
We should, we didn't, and we've suffered all season because of it.  There's no excuse.  It was a monumental failure.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on July 10, 2020, 02:24:28 PM
Quote from: CT on July 10, 2020, 01:49:05 PM
Quote from: SheffieldVillain on July 10, 2020, 01:39:42 PM
Maupay's got a very similar strike rate to Wesley this season as well - 9 in 32 (goal in every 3.55 games) compared with 6 in 22 (goal every 3.66 games).

Maupay is a nasty little sod though, opponents hate him. We’d have loved him. If we’d have signed him though he’d have gained weight and lost pace after a few months at BMH.

I still haven't forgiven the little prick for what he did to SJM.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ClarrieBlue on July 10, 2020, 02:28:41 PM
I know everyone is expecting wholesale changes but it looks like there will only be a month or just over between this season and the new one. It can hardly be called a pre-season more of an extension to the last one although in our case we will probably be in a different league. It doesn't leave alot of time to re-build the team.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 10, 2020, 03:14:00 PM
Quote from: Holte L2 on July 10, 2020, 09:39:39 AM
Quote from: Ads on July 10, 2020, 09:31:47 AM
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on July 10, 2020, 09:24:31 AM
Quote from: Ads on July 10, 2020, 09:13:22 AM
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on July 10, 2020, 09:06:57 AM
JT and Smith will go after this - regardless of what happens next four matches

I think you're right.

Issue is. They both know it

You heard out about who might be a replacement?

The thing i keep coming back to is, who are we going to get in that would do any better?

Whichever way you look at it those group of players aren't good enough at this level. And if thats Suso and Purslow's recruitment then they need to be held accountable.
Smith's job title is head coach. Not Manager.
Dyche has been suggested but I'd still doubt that he would be able to get any better out of the squad. Thats the same Dyche that relegated Burnley in their first season back in the Premiership.
We all new this season would be a struggle based on the turnaround in numbers of the playing squad.
I'd stick with Deano and get rid of Suso.

Time we appoint a manager who's won major trophies recently and managed at top level (and isn't about 65 as Houllier was when we got him).

Very difficult if you're in championship but other clubs have shown that if the project is good enough they'll come.

Last time we went down we appointed someone who'd won the european cup four years previously although taking the job seemed to make him lose any common sense e.g. thinking we could storm the league playing 4-2-4.

Still just because that didn't work dosen't mean similar appointments would be doomed to failure.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 10, 2020, 03:26:45 PM
Quote from: OzVilla on July 10, 2020, 12:33:55 PM
Agreed, we had 13 players to get in for around £130 million. That really is bargain basement squad building at PL level. Could we have spent better, yes. But could we have spent more, no.

My amazement with Suso is we simply didn't use any contacts he had at Atletico Madrid or Valencia given he's worked at both in last 10 years.

Given how weak we've been in defensive midfield this season surely an obvious target would've been someone like Francis Cocquelin, in and out of the Valencia team this year. Played over 100 games for Arsenal etc. Season long loan with agreement to sign him for 15-20m if we stayed up.

Purslow just rejecting loans last summer wasn't the brightest idea especially with the u turn in January.

Next time we're up we need to start targeting players from better leagues as with the greatest respect I can't see us challenging for top 8 anytime soon signing players from Belgium and mid table Turkish teams. It's an easy example but Newcastle signed Saint-Maximin from Nice for inital 16.5m (so only a few million more than what we spent on Konsa and Targett) and 40k a week.

They could sell him for three times that amount in August if they wished or just give him a big pay increase to keep him but that is more proven player than any outfield player he signed, El Ghazi was just a bit part player in the same league for example.
                               
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SamTheMouse on July 10, 2020, 04:16:43 PM
I think if Wesley, Heaton and McGinn hadn't had those injuries, we would be nearly safe by now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KevinGage on July 10, 2020, 04:29:16 PM
Quote from: AlwaysVilla on July 10, 2020, 01:58:23 PM
Another of the reasons the likes of Maupay, Benrahma and Phiilips were players on Smith' radar, were also the wages factor. The owners seem to making sure that our wage bill doesn't spiral out of hand with rumours of a 45k per week ceiling, especially if we ended up relegated.

Whilst I get all that and totally accept the need to be financially prudent, Purslow did talk about a £200 million hole to fill in the event of relegation. So what's worse, spending a bit more than we actually did on players and wages (I'm not talking about £50 million + signings on £100k a week either) or raiding Belgium and Turkey and ending up where we are now.

Worried about the impact of FFP in the championship?   Don't get relegated then.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The_ads on July 10, 2020, 05:09:40 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on July 10, 2020, 03:14:00 PM
Quote from: Holte L2 on July 10, 2020, 09:39:39 AM
Quote from: Ads on July 10, 2020, 09:31:47 AM
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on July 10, 2020, 09:24:31 AM
Quote from: Ads on July 10, 2020, 09:13:22 AM
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on July 10, 2020, 09:06:57 AM
JT and Smith will go after this - regardless of what happens next four matches

I think you're right.

Issue is. They both know it

You heard out about who might be a replacement?

The thing i keep coming back to is, who are we going to get in that would do any better?

Whichever way you look at it those group of players aren't good enough at this level. And if thats Suso and Purslow's recruitment then they need to be held accountable.
Smith's job title is head coach. Not Manager.
Dyche has been suggested but I'd still doubt that he would be able to get any better out of the squad. Thats the same Dyche that relegated Burnley in their first season back in the Premiership.
We all new this season would be a struggle based on the turnaround in numbers of the playing squad.
I'd stick with Deano and get rid of Suso.

Time we appoint a manager who's won major trophies recently and managed at top level (and isn't about 65 as Houllier was when we got him).

Very difficult if you're in championship but other clubs have shown that if the project is good enough they'll come.

Last time we went down we appointed someone who'd won the european cup four years previously although taking the job seemed to make him lose any common sense e.g. thinking we could storm the league playing 4-2-4.

Still just because that didn't work dosen't mean similar appointments would be doomed to failure.

Don’t know what you’re smoking mate but if you’re in the Sutton area can you drop some by? I don’t know if you’ve noticed at all but we’re not exactly an attractive proposition. We’re getting relegated and about to lose arguably our 3 best players as a result.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on July 10, 2020, 05:16:02 PM
I wanted to take a bit of time before posting but there's 2 things that have really disappointed me about Smith from yesterday and, for me, they're the actions of a man who knows he's fucked.


After the penalty was given I'd expect the manager to be losing his shit with the 4th official and linesman, he stood with his arms closed. After that I expect him to be hunting the ref down at half time to shout him down, Smith just walked to the dressing room. He was like a whipped dog just meekly accepting his punishment.


On top of that at 2-0 the game was over unless we changed it and instead the same 11 came out and spent 25minutes going through the motions before he made changes that looked like they'd been decided before kick off. We should've had 2-3 up front and gone for it. Goal difference doesn't matter when you're 4 points from safety with 4  and a half games to go, we needed to score early in the 2nd half to change the game, and we didn't try.


I said a few times how much I hate the claims that inevitably come in a run like this about heart/spirit/bottle, I think in the majority of cases people are mistaking a lack of confidence for a lack of passion, but when it slips into passivity is when I can't accept it. Smith has to go asap because he clearly doesn't trust himself to be able to turn this around and the acceptance that comes with it is crippling for the club.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: David_Nab on July 10, 2020, 05:16:57 PM
Quote from: The_ads on July 10, 2020, 05:09:40 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on July 10, 2020, 03:14:00 PM
Quote from: Holte L2 on July 10, 2020, 09:39:39 AM
Quote from: Ads on July 10, 2020, 09:31:47 AM
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on July 10, 2020, 09:24:31 AM
Quote from: Ads on July 10, 2020, 09:13:22 AM
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on July 10, 2020, 09:06:57 AM
JT and Smith will go after this - regardless of what happens next four matches

I think you're right.

Issue is. They both know it

You heard out about who might be a replacement?

The thing i keep coming back to is, who are we going to get in that would do any better?

Whichever way you look at it those group of players aren't good enough at this level. And if thats Suso and Purslow's recruitment then they need to be held accountable.
Smith's job title is head coach. Not Manager.
Dyche has been suggested but I'd still doubt that he would be able to get any better out of the squad. Thats the same Dyche that relegated Burnley in their first season back in the Premiership.
We all new this season would be a struggle based on the turnaround in numbers of the playing squad.
I'd stick with Deano and get rid of Suso.

Time we appoint a manager who's won major trophies recently and managed at top level (and isn't about 65 as Houllier was when we got him).

Very difficult if you're in championship but other clubs have shown that if the project is good enough they'll come.

Last time we went down we appointed someone who'd won the european cup four years previously although taking the job seemed to make him lose any common sense e.g. thinking we could storm the league playing 4-2-4.

Still just because that didn't work dosen't mean similar appointments would be doomed to failure.

Don’t know what you’re smoking mate but if you’re in the Sutton area can you drop some by? I don’t know if you’ve noticed at all but we’re not exactly an attractive proposition. We’re getting relegated and about to lose arguably our 3 best players as a result.

Leeds got Bielsa
Wolves Nuno
WBA Bilic

With Leeds going up I don't think there is any argument at all we will be biggest team in that league if we drop which will help us attract a decent manager IMO.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on July 10, 2020, 05:21:09 PM
This team would piss the championship with a decent manager
we could obviously lose a couple out of the list but we would also have good money to replace them

HEATON
GILBERT
ENGELS
MINGS
TARGET
NAKAMBA
MCGINN
LUIZ
EL GHAZI
WESLEY
SAMATA

apologies to those who think I’m being to negative because we’re not down yet but I’m just trying to cheer myself up

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The_ads on July 10, 2020, 05:21:58 PM
Quote from: David_Nab on July 10, 2020, 05:16:57 PM
Quote from: The_ads on July 10, 2020, 05:09:40 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on July 10, 2020, 03:14:00 PM
Quote from: Holte L2 on July 10, 2020, 09:39:39 AM
Quote from: Ads on July 10, 2020, 09:31:47 AM
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on July 10, 2020, 09:24:31 AM
Quote from: Ads on July 10, 2020, 09:13:22 AM
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on July 10, 2020, 09:06:57 AM
JT and Smith will go after this - regardless of what happens next four matches

I think you're right.

Issue is. They both know it

You heard out about who might be a replacement?

The thing i keep coming back to is, who are we going to get in that would do any better?

Whichever way you look at it those group of players aren't good enough at this level. And if thats Suso and Purslow's recruitment then they need to be held accountable.
Smith's job title is head coach. Not Manager.
Dyche has been suggested but I'd still doubt that he would be able to get any better out of the squad. Thats the same Dyche that relegated Burnley in their first season back in the Premiership.
We all new this season would be a struggle based on the turnaround in numbers of the playing squad.
I'd stick with Deano and get rid of Suso.

Time we appoint a manager who's won major trophies recently and managed at top level (and isn't about 65 as Houllier was when we got him).

Very difficult if you're in championship but other clubs have shown that if the project is good enough they'll come.

Last time we went down we appointed someone who'd won the european cup four years previously although taking the job seemed to make him lose any common sense e.g. thinking we could storm the league playing 4-2-4.

Still just because that didn't work dosen't mean similar appointments would be doomed to failure.

Don’t know what you’re smoking mate but if you’re in the Sutton area can you drop some by? I don’t know if you’ve noticed at all but we’re not exactly an attractive proposition. We’re getting relegated and about to lose arguably our 3 best players as a result.

Leeds got Bielsa
Wolves Nuno
WBA Bilic

With Leeds going up I don't think there is any argument at all we will be biggest team in that league if we drop which will help us attract a decent manager IMO.

Yeah hate to be picky but none of those have won major European trophies but I take your point.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 10, 2020, 05:22:19 PM
Quote from: paul_e on July 10, 2020, 05:16:02 PM
... On top of that at 2-0 the game was over unless we changed it and instead the same 11 came out and spent 25minutes going through the motions before he made changes that looked like they'd been decided before kick off. We should've had 2-3 up front and gone for it. Goal difference doesn't matter when you're 4 points from safety with 4  and a half games to go, we needed to score early in the 2nd half to change the game, and we didn't try.


I think it's become abundantly clear of late that there's no correlation whatsoever between how many "forwards" we have on the pitch and the likelihood of us scoring.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The_ads on July 10, 2020, 05:23:09 PM
Quote from: john e on July 10, 2020, 05:21:09 PM
This team would piss the championship with a decent manager
we could obviously lose a couple out of the list but we would also have good money to replace them

HEATON
GILBERT
ENGELS
MINGS
TARGET
NAKAMBA
MCGINN
LUIZ
EL GHAZI
WESLEY
SAMATA

apologies to those who think I’m being to negative because we’re not down yet but I’m just trying to cheer myself up

At least 5 of those go.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on July 10, 2020, 05:24:16 PM
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on July 10, 2020, 05:22:19 PM
Quote from: paul_e on July 10, 2020, 05:16:02 PM
... On top of that at 2-0 the game was over unless we changed it and instead the same 11 came out and spent 25minutes going through the motions before he made changes that looked like they'd been decided before kick off. We should've had 2-3 up front and gone for it. Goal difference doesn't matter when you're 4 points from safety with 4  and a half games to go, we needed to score early in the 2nd half to change the game, and we didn't try.


I think it's become abundantly clear of late that there's no correlation whatsoever between how many "forwards" we have on the pitch and the likelihood of us scoring.

No, but putting Samatta and Davis together and Grealish in behind them would've at least given the impression we hadn't accept the defeat and that he was willing to try something else.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on July 10, 2020, 05:26:57 PM
Quote from: The_ads on July 10, 2020, 05:23:09 PM
Quote from: john e on July 10, 2020, 05:21:09 PM
This team would piss the championship with a decent manager
we could obviously lose a couple out of the list but we would also have good money to replace them

HEATON
GILBERT
ENGELS
MINGS
TARGET
NAKAMBA
MCGINN
LUIZ
EL GHAZI
WESLEY
SAMATA

apologies to those who think I’m being to negative because we’re not down yet but I’m just trying to cheer myself up

At least 5 of those go.


I’m not so sure but even if your right they won’t be going for nothing so we will have funds to replace
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on July 10, 2020, 05:28:55 PM
I’m with John E, that’s a fine Championship side and who the hell would buy any of our crock of shite, with exception of our Jack?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 10, 2020, 05:31:38 PM
Yep, if we were worth plundering, we wouldn't be where we are now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on July 10, 2020, 05:33:45 PM
I agree that the team above would be towards the top of the championship, if you add people like Konsa, Hause, Hourihane, Steer as back up, along with the kids and 3-4 new signings I think that's a squad that can come back up and do a better job of staying up thanks to the couple of years of experience they'd have.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mcgrath_85 on July 10, 2020, 06:06:14 PM
What a massively depressing thread.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 10, 2020, 06:14:15 PM
Quote from: john e on July 10, 2020, 05:21:09 PM
This team would piss the championship with a decent manager
we could obviously lose a couple out of the list but we would also have good money to replace them

HEATON
GILBERT
ENGELS
MINGS
TARGET
NAKAMBA
MCGINN
LUIZ
EL GHAZI
WESLEY
SAMATA

apologies to those who think I’m being to negative because we’re not down yet but I’m just trying to cheer myself up
I would place decent money that we will not field that team next season, maybe 6 will stay.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 10, 2020, 06:36:23 PM
why? Newcastle didn't sell everyone when they went down. Why do we need to? We're not skint. They are all under contract. New players joined a newly promoted side so they all knew what they were getting into. Unless they have clauses we can hold on to everyone unless the right offer comes in. There is a very good chance we will keep most of them. And frankly why would a new manager join if the first they will do is sell everyone? We will want to give ourselves the very best chance of getting back up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on July 10, 2020, 06:39:28 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on July 10, 2020, 08:56:33 AM
It isn’t just Smiths fault but he has failed in one of the most important aspects of his job.
He has been useless at game management, just a few more points from winning positions and we would be close to safety.

This for me is where any defence of smith falls down. The players might not have been good enough or the squad correctly balanced, but they were good to get us into winning positions against good teams so you can’t have it both ways.

The rest as you say is in game tactics.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ASHTONVILLA on July 10, 2020, 06:42:42 PM
Another small positive is that last season Norwich were better than us and got automatically promoted. This year we overtook them, and will have weaker teams to compete with than last time.

Get a decent manager and we should do very well at that level.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 10, 2020, 06:52:07 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on July 10, 2020, 06:36:23 PM
why? Newcastle didn't sell everyone when they went down. Why do we need to? We're not skint. They are all under contract. New players joined a newly promoted side so they all knew what they were getting into. Unless they have clauses we can hold on to everyone unless the right offer comes in. There is a very good chance we will keep most of them. And frankly why would a new manager join if the first they will do is sell everyone? We will want to give ourselves the very best chance of getting back up.
I think the ones who want to go will go. We see it time and again: a player makes his intention clear and we're all 'let him rot in the reserves etc etc' but it never happens.  Relations between the club and the player sour to the point where there's no point playing or even keeping them and they leave, under a cloud.  But you're right that even in such situations we won't get ripped off.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SamTheMouse on July 10, 2020, 07:02:16 PM
Even if we do end up in Division 2 again, we're still going to be by far the biggest club down there, and with filthy rich owners to boot.

We'll be back, and it won't take as long as last time.

We're Aston fucking Villa ffs.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on July 10, 2020, 07:24:41 PM
The players never seem to take their share of the blame for not trying as appeared to be the case last night.  If only they all had clauses inserted forcing them to stay at least another year of their contracts if the club is relegated. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 10, 2020, 07:25:47 PM
Quote from: SamTheMouse on July 10, 2020, 07:02:16 PM
We're Aston fucking Villa ffs.
Like Emile fucking Heskey ffs.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 10, 2020, 07:31:26 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on July 10, 2020, 06:36:23 PM
why? Newcastle didn't sell everyone when they went down. Why do we need to? We're not skint. They are all under contract. New players joined a newly promoted side so they all knew what they were getting into. Unless they have clauses we can hold on to everyone unless the right offer comes in. There is a very good chance we will keep most of them. And frankly why would a new manager join if the first they will do is sell everyone? We will want to give ourselves the very best chance of getting back up.

I don't know where I got this from (so there's a good chance I made it up) but I was under the impression that relegation clauses in player contracts were balanced by release clauses? Which isn't to say that any club in their right minds would come close to bidding whatever the figure would be for most of that shower.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on July 10, 2020, 07:36:20 PM
The thing in our favour (or any clubs that go down) is that this will be a very short summer window. The season starts 12/09 so once all the european and cup games are done we're looking at a 5-6 week window. Teams and agents aren't going to be able to fuck about as long as normal. That makes it more of a sellers market than normal, and with clubs still likely to be nervous about finances I can see a fair few players than we might think would want out will end up sticking out until January and seeing how things are going.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on July 10, 2020, 07:36:46 PM
Quote from: SamTheMouse on July 10, 2020, 07:02:16 PM
Even if we do end up in Division 2 again, we're still going to be by far the biggest club down there, and with filthy rich owners to boot.

We'll be back, and it won't take as long as last time.

We're Aston fucking Villa ffs.
Well said mate 👏👏👏👏
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: andyh on July 10, 2020, 07:37:21 PM
Quote from: ASHTONVILLA on July 10, 2020, 06:42:42 PM
Another small positive is that last season Norwich were better than us and got automatically promoted. This year we overtook them, and will have weaker teams to compete with than last time.

Get a decent manager and we should do very well at that level.
We spent £120 million. Norwich spent fuck all.

Being above them is the very, very least we could have expected.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: N'ZMAV on July 10, 2020, 07:42:09 PM
Is Dean Smith the man to get us up next season? and if yes and he does, then I wonder if he's learnt enough to make a better go of it next time round?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on July 10, 2020, 07:42:12 PM
Quote from: ASHTONVILLA on July 10, 2020, 06:42:42 PM
Another small positive is that last season Norwich were better than us and got automatically promoted. This year we overtook them, and will have weaker teams to compete with than last time.

Get a decent manager and we should do very well at that level.

Norwich deserve to be relegated for failing to attempt to stay up. They pretty much planned for relegation by not investing. They've a large shed full of moolah. It will be interesting to see what they do with it this window.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 10, 2020, 07:46:26 PM
Quote from: SamTheMouse on July 10, 2020, 07:02:16 PM
We're Aston fucking Villa ffs.

I'M RONNIE FUCKING PICKERING!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: N'ZMAV on July 10, 2020, 07:47:31 PM
I am spartacus
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on July 10, 2020, 07:50:32 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on July 10, 2020, 07:46:26 PM
Quote from: SamTheMouse on July 10, 2020, 07:02:16 PM
We're Aston fucking Villa ffs.

I'M RONNIE FUCKING PICKERING!
Who?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on July 10, 2020, 07:50:56 PM
Quote from: andyh on July 10, 2020, 07:37:21 PM
Quote from: ASHTONVILLA on July 10, 2020, 06:42:42 PM
Another small positive is that last season Norwich were better than us and got automatically promoted. This year we overtook them, and will have weaker teams to compete with than last time.

Get a decent manager and we should do very well at that level.
We spent £120 million. Norwich spent fuck all.

Being above them is the very, very least we could have expected.


he did say it was a small positive
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on July 10, 2020, 07:52:21 PM
Quote from: Ian J on July 10, 2020, 07:50:32 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on July 10, 2020, 07:46:26 PM
Quote from: SamTheMouse on July 10, 2020, 07:02:16 PM
We're Aston fucking Villa ffs.

I'M RONNIE FUCKING PICKERING!
Who?

Used to present Superstars.

I’m Brian Jacks.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on July 10, 2020, 07:57:26 PM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on July 10, 2020, 07:52:21 PM
Used to present Superstars.

I’m Brian Jacks.

I always had you down as a James Hunt. ;)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 10, 2020, 07:58:15 PM
Quote from: Ian J on July 10, 2020, 07:50:32 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on July 10, 2020, 07:46:26 PM
Quote from: SamTheMouse on July 10, 2020, 07:02:16 PM
We're Aston fucking Villa ffs.

I'M RONNIE FUCKING PICKERING!
Who?

RONNIE PICKERING!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: bjfoster on July 10, 2020, 07:59:31 PM
Quote from: SamTheMouse on July 10, 2020, 07:02:16 PM
Even if we do end up in Division 2 again, we're still going to be by far the biggest club down there, and with filthy rich owners to boot.

We'll be back, and it won't take as long as last time.

We're Aston fucking Villa ffs.

You’ve obviously never watched Sunderland til’ I die. This is the sort of attitude that keeps you in the Championship and League 1.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on July 10, 2020, 08:01:57 PM
You obviously didn't watch Aston Villa last season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 10, 2020, 08:25:15 PM
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/x7i3XDpcE0I/maxresdefault.jpg)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 10, 2020, 08:29:47 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/T1PdtKd/S01-E02-duy-Ergkd-subtitled.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nBQtj3t)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: BoVillan esq on July 10, 2020, 08:33:28 PM
I'm Duncan Norvelle.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tony scott on July 10, 2020, 09:28:56 PM
It’s not certain that we will go down but if we do it’s going to be a mammoth task to come straight back up the current squads confidence is shredded, the management team seem unable to inspire or effectively coach.  I think the Efl are waiting to punish us re FPL and although it seems it might be wavered is that a given? plenty see us doing a Sean Dyches Burnley that’s great for continuity, but for me D S reminds me of Paul Jewel not suited to the Premiership.  The only positive from me is win the last thee ,unlikely but UTV
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on July 10, 2020, 09:43:21 PM
If we do go down, I can't see some of the players we have, coping with the physical side of the Championship.  Tough and uncompromising centre backs, tough central midfielders etc.  We will need to reshape the squad for the battle ahead but first, rid the stench of defeat as we cannot afford to take that down with us.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ASHTONVILLA on July 10, 2020, 10:24:48 PM
Quote from: andyh on July 10, 2020, 07:37:21 PM
Quote from: ASHTONVILLA on July 10, 2020, 06:42:42 PM
Another small positive is that last season Norwich were better than us and got automatically promoted. This year we overtook them, and will have weaker teams to compete with than last time.

Get a decent manager and we should do very well at that level.
We spent £120 million. Norwich spent fuck all.

Being above them is the very, very least we could have expected.

Not happy about it, just trying to make myself feel better about next season. Of course we have to dump Smith and the coaching team else we will be struggling.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: DB on July 10, 2020, 10:28:16 PM
And the recruitment team. Imagine the current lot trying to buy to right players for the Championship.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 10, 2020, 10:34:35 PM
Quote from: DB on July 10, 2020, 10:28:16 PM
And the recruitment team. Imagine the current lot trying to buy to right players for the Championship.

They've done it once!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Luke8 on July 10, 2020, 10:37:00 PM
Quote from: DB on July 10, 2020, 10:28:16 PM
And the recruitment team. Imagine the current lot trying to buy to right players for the Championship.

Something like getting Tyrone Mings in? ;)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: rougegorge on July 10, 2020, 11:03:09 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on July 10, 2020, 10:34:35 PM
Quote from: DB on July 10, 2020, 10:28:16 PM
And the recruitment team. Imagine the current lot trying to buy to right players for the Championship.

They've done it once!
Apart from Mings and Hause, all the main players that got promoted were here before Smith and Suso. Unless you count Kalinic and Carroll.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 10, 2020, 11:09:06 PM
Quote from: rougegorge on July 10, 2020, 11:03:09 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on July 10, 2020, 10:34:35 PM
Quote from: DB on July 10, 2020, 10:28:16 PM
And the recruitment team. Imagine the current lot trying to buy to right players for the Championship.

They've done it once!
Apart from Mings and Hause, all the main players that got promoted were here before Smith and Suso. Unless you count Kalinic and Carroll.


I meant this season's signings. It was a (not very good) joke.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 10, 2020, 11:19:16 PM
Quote from: The_ads on July 10, 2020, 05:09:40 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on July 10, 2020, 03:14:00 PM
Quote from: Holte L2 on July 10, 2020, 09:39:39 AM
Quote from: Ads on July 10, 2020, 09:31:47 AM
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on July 10, 2020, 09:24:31 AM
Quote from: Ads on July 10, 2020, 09:13:22 AM
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on July 10, 2020, 09:06:57 AM
JT and Smith will go after this - regardless of what happens next four matches

I think you're right.

Issue is. They both know it

You heard out about who might be a replacement?

The thing i keep coming back to is, who are we going to get in that would do any better?

Whichever way you look at it those group of players aren't good enough at this level. And if thats Suso and Purslow's recruitment then they need to be held accountable.
Smith's job title is head coach. Not Manager.
Dyche has been suggested but I'd still doubt that he would be able to get any better out of the squad. Thats the same Dyche that relegated Burnley in their first season back in the Premiership.
We all new this season would be a struggle based on the turnaround in numbers of the playing squad.
I'd stick with Deano and get rid of Suso.

Time we appoint a manager who's won major trophies recently and managed at top level (and isn't about 65 as Houllier was when we got him).

Very difficult if you're in championship but other clubs have shown that if the project is good enough they'll come.

Last time we went down we appointed someone who'd won the european cup four years previously although taking the job seemed to make him lose any common sense e.g. thinking we could storm the league playing 4-2-4.

Still just because that didn't work dosen't mean similar appointments would be doomed to failure.

Don’t know what you’re smoking mate but if you’re in the Sutton area can you drop some by? I don’t know if you’ve noticed at all but we’re not exactly an attractive proposition. We’re getting relegated and about to lose arguably our 3 best players as a result.

Well I live pretty much across the road from Falcon Lodge so I'll pop round the back of the Anvil pub and see what I can find!

Yeah as said Leeds, Wolves, WBA and Newcastle (considering Bentiez only agreed to stay after their relegation) showed ambition and got good managers and they all got promoted straight away or on verge of doing it now.

Of course we'll lose players but Newcastle sold Wijnaldjum and Sissoko the summer Rafa signed up full time, he could see the bigger picture.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 10, 2020, 11:25:55 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on July 10, 2020, 06:36:23 PM
why? Newcastle didn't sell everyone when they went down. Why do we need to? We're not skint. They are all under contract. New players joined a newly promoted side so they all knew what they were getting into. Unless they have clauses we can hold on to everyone unless the right offer comes in. There is a very good chance we will keep most of them. And frankly why would a new manager join if the first they will do is sell everyone? We will want to give ourselves the very best chance of getting back up.

They sold Winjaldum and Sissoko for 50m.

What they did with that was buy some reasonably o.k premier league squad players who they felt would do a good job for them in the championship. Dwight Gayle, Matt Ritchie, Issac Hayden, Clark from us, Mo Diame, Atsu, Jonjo Shelvey and De Andre Yedlin were signed from mostly premier league clubs. They won the league with 98 points and most of those remain part of their first team squad now so they're actually a pretty decent template to follow from how they did things from 2016 onwards.

Compare them to how we went about it from that same summer anyway and there's a bit of a difference.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: rougegorge on July 10, 2020, 11:39:17 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on July 10, 2020, 11:09:06 PM
Quote from: rougegorge on July 10, 2020, 11:03:09 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on July 10, 2020, 10:34:35 PM
Quote from: DB on July 10, 2020, 10:28:16 PM
And the recruitment team. Imagine the current lot trying to buy to right players for the Championship.

They've done it once!
Apart from Mings and Hause, all the main players that got promoted were here before Smith and Suso. Unless you count Kalinic and Carroll.


I meant this season's signings. It was a (not very good) joke.
🙂 too subtle and too late in the day for me.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Holte L2 on July 11, 2020, 10:18:09 AM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on July 10, 2020, 03:26:45 PM
Quote from: OzVilla on July 10, 2020, 12:33:55 PM
Agreed, we had 13 players to get in for around £130 million. That really is bargain basement squad building at PL level. Could we have spent better, yes. But could we have spent more, no.

My amazement with Suso is we simply didn't use any contacts he had at Atletico Madrid or Valencia given he's worked at both in last 10 years.

Given how weak we've been in defensive midfield this season surely an obvious target would've been someone like Francis Cocquelin, in and out of the Valencia team this year. Played over 100 games for Arsenal etc. Season long loan with agreement to sign him for 15-20m if we stayed up.

Purslow just rejecting loans last summer wasn't the brightest idea especially with the u turn in January.

Next time we're up we need to start targeting players from better leagues as with the greatest respect I can't see us challenging for top 8 anytime soon signing players from Belgium and mid table Turkish teams. It's an easy example but Newcastle signed Saint-Maximin from Nice for inital 16.5m (so only a few million more than what we spent on Konsa and Targett) and 40k a week.

They could sell him for three times that amount in August if they wished or just give him a big pay increase to keep him but that is more proven player than any outfield player he signed, El Ghazi was just a bit part player in the same league for example.
                               

You would be less amazed when you realised he did pretty shit jobs with them as well.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nii Lamptey on July 11, 2020, 10:36:21 AM
Even with Cahill supposedly out for the season, I can't see us picking anything up against Palace.

Dean Smith vs the tactical nous of Roy Hodgson and the Villa Old Boys. It's only gonna end one way unfortunately.... and we all know it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: N'ZMAV on July 11, 2020, 10:51:21 AM
Palce will fill their midfield full of hard working dirty ball winners like McCarthy, McArthur and Kouyote etc - and they'll just dominate. meh.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on July 11, 2020, 02:17:26 PM
Probably won't matter much.  Even a win here now only gives us faint hope.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan82 on July 11, 2020, 02:21:09 PM
It grates on me so much that he's still our manager. That season was a pathetic effort.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on July 11, 2020, 02:21:15 PM
Any chance of the incompetent fuckwit being out out of his misery after palace, if we’re all but mathematically down, as seems likely?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Bobby Boy on July 11, 2020, 02:24:06 PM
The owners need to explain why they didn't relieve Mr Smith of his duties in January or June.

If they dismiss him as our relegation is confirmed then that will be beyond a farce.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT on July 11, 2020, 02:25:11 PM
I’d like to think there’s a lot of employees at Villa who would be suitably ashamed, especially watching Watford fighting like proper lions against Newcastle.

I doubt some of our players give two shits. They’ll all be back out tomorrow, jogging around, making sure they don’t get injured so they can move away in a few weeks.

2015/16 deja vu.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on July 11, 2020, 02:27:47 PM
Maybe if we get relegated They don’t have to pay as much compo.  That’s the only thing I can think of for him still being here. May as well do it after tomorrow.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ger Regan on July 11, 2020, 02:28:30 PM
The most damning thing i can say about smith is that, Luiz aside, each player has got worse as the season has gone on. He seems a decent sort, but he's clearly not up to the job, but he's not the only one. I'd get rid of him and suso once relegation is confirmed. The idea of DoF and head coach is one i like, but it's been poorly executed.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan82 on July 11, 2020, 02:29:11 PM
C**ts, with exception of Heaton, Douglas Luiz, Wesley, Taylor, Konsa and Hause.

Hate them as much as I hated the 2015-16 team. They had everything behind them- packed stadium every week until the lockdown, resources, good will...you name it.

Bottlers, but this is on the management team. Those thrown away points at the start of the season finished us.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on July 11, 2020, 02:30:55 PM
Quote from: Bobby Boy on July 11, 2020, 02:24:06 PM
The owners need to explain why they didn't relieve Mr Smith of his duties in January or June.

If they dismiss him as our relegation is confirmed then that will be beyond a farce.


January was the time to do it and I said as much at the time. They should have thrown a contract until the end of the season with a big survival bonus included at Big Sam. He would have kept us up and we could have made a long term decision at the end of the season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan82 on July 11, 2020, 02:35:38 PM
I never, ever want to again see a manager's portrait on the back of one of our stands.

We set ourselves up to fail.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 11, 2020, 02:38:08 PM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on July 11, 2020, 02:27:47 PM
Maybe if we get relegated They don’t have to pay as much compo.  That’s the only thing I can think of for him still being here. May as well do it after tomorrow.
The cost of relegation dwarfs the amount we'd save on compo.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ROBBO on July 11, 2020, 02:38:26 PM
We seem to employ managers that the owners are comfortable with when we should have a nasty angry bastard in charge.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: N'ZMAV on July 11, 2020, 02:39:34 PM
it's just been a pathetic mess - I'd happily see all of them leave and start again.... Grealish I'd miss, but he knows he's off.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 11, 2020, 02:39:54 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on July 11, 2020, 02:38:08 PM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on July 11, 2020, 02:27:47 PM
Maybe if we get relegated They don’t have to pay as much compo.  That’s the only thing I can think of for him still being here. May as well do it after tomorrow.
The cost of relegation dwarfs the amount we'd save on compo.
I think he means now as opposed to when relegation is confirmed, assuming there is a relegation clause of course.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on July 11, 2020, 02:40:26 PM
Quote from: Villan82 on July 11, 2020, 02:35:38 PM
I never, ever want to again see a manager's portrait on the back of one of our stands.

We set ourselves up to fail.

We have it on one season sale or return.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 11, 2020, 02:42:44 PM
Faces change, owners change, CEOs change but the meek, passive acceptance of, at best, utter mediocrity and at worst shameful under performance remains.

Where is the pride?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan82 on July 11, 2020, 02:44:44 PM
Quote from: N'ZMAV on July 11, 2020, 02:39:34 PM
it's just been a pathetic mess - I'd happily see all of them leave and start again.... Grealish I'd miss, but he knows he's off.

Grealish must be one of the few players in 140 years of Villa who can say he was relegated twice. Might sound harsh but I haven't seen much fight in him when we needed it. And, as captain, he let his club down during the lockdown.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: colin69 on July 11, 2020, 02:56:28 PM
The fact he’s still here makes me think they have absolutely no intention of getting rid of him. If we were going down fighting and showing some balls and playing good football I could sort of understand it but we are not. Maybe he could get us back up but really what’s the point? He can’t handle this division.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on July 11, 2020, 02:57:15 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on July 11, 2020, 02:42:44 PM
Faces change, owners change, CEOs change but the meek, passive acceptance of, at best, utter mediocrity and at worst shameful under performance remains.

Where is the pride?

And this is from a Villa fan in charge!  I think he knows he’s going and has given up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ez on July 11, 2020, 03:00:29 PM
I'm just glad we wont see it turn toxic in the stands although I have a feeling there would just be an atmosphere of tired resignation.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john2710 on July 11, 2020, 03:02:35 PM
We've been weakwilled & a soft touch for at least a decade. Smith should have gone after the defeat at Watford when the writing was well and truly on the wall but things have got steadily worse since.

The only noticeably difference was when we played Leicester in the cup. Which I think convinced the club that Smith & these players could pull it off.

I haven't seen much evidence of fight, least of all from the so-called leaders.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 11, 2020, 03:02:51 PM
Quote from: ez on July 11, 2020, 03:00:29 PM
I'm just glad we wont see it turn toxic in the stands although I have a feeling there would just be an atmosphere of tired resignation.

Upper Trinity had turned on him long ago, Southampton game was pretty much the turning point.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ez on July 11, 2020, 03:02:54 PM
Quote from: Bobby Boy on July 11, 2020, 02:24:06 PM
The owners need to explain why they didn't relieve Mr Smith of his duties in January or June.

If they dismiss him as our relegation is confirmed then that will be beyond a farce.

100%. Theres no logic to it at all.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 11, 2020, 03:05:02 PM
I would fire Purslow before Smith.
Then let the new CEO work out what is needed.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on July 11, 2020, 03:05:54 PM
Oops wrong thread
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 11, 2020, 03:08:00 PM
Quote from: ez on July 11, 2020, 03:02:54 PM
Quote from: Bobby Boy on July 11, 2020, 02:24:06 PM
The owners need to explain why they didn't relieve Mr Smith of his duties in January or June.

If they dismiss him as our relegation is confirmed then that will be beyond a farce.

100%. Theres no logic to it at all.

I bet he’ll be here for game 1 in the Championship.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 11, 2020, 03:09:48 PM
No chance. He'll be gone within 48 hours of the West Ham game at the very latest.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 11, 2020, 03:11:11 PM
Quote from: Jon Crofts on July 11, 2020, 03:08:00 PM
Quote from: ez on July 11, 2020, 03:02:54 PM
Quote from: Bobby Boy on July 11, 2020, 02:24:06 PM
The owners need to explain why they didn't relieve Mr Smith of his duties in January or June.

If they dismiss him as our relegation is confirmed then that will be beyond a farce.

100%. Theres no logic to it at all.

I bet he’ll be here for game 1 in the Championship.

I think so, too.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 11, 2020, 03:14:42 PM
When does Dean’s “my teams play better late in the season” going to start?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on July 11, 2020, 03:18:21 PM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on July 11, 2020, 03:09:48 PM
No chance. He'll be gone within 48 hours of the West Ham game at the very latest.

Agree
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VinnieChase84 on July 11, 2020, 03:20:21 PM
Quote from: Jon Crofts on July 11, 2020, 03:08:00 PM
Quote from: ez on July 11, 2020, 03:02:54 PM
Quote from: Bobby Boy on July 11, 2020, 02:24:06 PM
The owners need to explain why they didn't relieve Mr Smith of his duties in January or June.

If they dismiss him as our relegation is confirmed then that will be beyond a farce.

100%. Theres no logic to it at all.

I bet he’ll be here for game 1 in the Championship.

I’ll take that bet. He’s gone
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on July 11, 2020, 03:22:29 PM
You sound very convinced, Vinnie? Your usual..
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan82 on July 11, 2020, 03:24:57 PM
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on July 11, 2020, 03:20:21 PM
Quote from: Jon Crofts on July 11, 2020, 03:08:00 PM
Quote from: ez on July 11, 2020, 03:02:54 PM
Quote from: Bobby Boy on July 11, 2020, 02:24:06 PM
The owners need to explain why they didn't relieve Mr Smith of his duties in January or June.

If they dismiss him as our relegation is confirmed then that will be beyond a farce.

100%. Theres no logic to it at all.

I bet he’ll be here for game 1 in the Championship.

I’ll take that bet. He’s gone

Too late. Purslow should have sacked him in December. Fool.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VinnieChase84 on July 11, 2020, 03:25:01 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on July 11, 2020, 03:22:29 PM
You sound very convinced, Vinnie? Your usual..

Yep
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on July 11, 2020, 03:25:05 PM
Can we now change the thread title to :  Dean Smith - Clueless

Massive disappointment with his tactical incompetence, inability to react during games, ridiculous statements/ excuses following defeat after defeat, non- existent motivational skills.
He may be a "nice guy" but lets face it he has been out of his depth for most of the season.
Another thing that gets me about the club - we never seem to match the fitness levels of other teams - why is that?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on July 11, 2020, 03:49:31 PM
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on July 11, 2020, 03:25:01 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on July 11, 2020, 03:22:29 PM
You sound very convinced, Vinnie? Your usual..

Yep

Who would be your replacement Vinnie?  For Villa Manager that is, not your replacement on this site! (Perish the thought!!).
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Bobby Boy on July 11, 2020, 03:51:38 PM
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on July 11, 2020, 03:20:21 PM
Quote from: Jon Crofts on July 11, 2020, 03:08:00 PM
Quote from: ez on July 11, 2020, 03:02:54 PM
Quote from: Bobby Boy on July 11, 2020, 02:24:06 PM
The owners need to explain why they didn't relieve Mr Smith of his duties in January or June.

If they dismiss him as our relegation is confirmed then that will be beyond a farce.

100%. Theres no logic to it at all.

I bet he’ll be here for game 1 in the Championship.

I’ll take that bet. He’s gone

If this proves to be true then the owners have big, big questions to answer. Mr Smith has been inept this season.

Why haven't they acted?

Their ineptitude is greater than his.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VinnieChase84 on July 11, 2020, 03:54:09 PM
Quote from: Bobby Boy on July 11, 2020, 03:51:38 PM
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on July 11, 2020, 03:20:21 PM
Quote from: Jon Crofts on July 11, 2020, 03:08:00 PM
Quote from: ez on July 11, 2020, 03:02:54 PM
Quote from: Bobby Boy on July 11, 2020, 02:24:06 PM
The owners need to explain why they didn't relieve Mr Smith of his duties in January or June.

If they dismiss him as our relegation is confirmed then that will be beyond a farce.

100%. Theres no logic to it at all.

I bet he’ll be here for game 1 in the Championship.

I’ll take that bet. He’s gone

If this proves to be true then the owners have big, big questions to answer. Mr Smith has been inept this season.

Why haven't they acted?

Their ineptitude is greater than his.

He was about to be sacked around Chelsea game. Then Covid happened and ruined that plan
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VinnieChase84 on July 11, 2020, 03:55:16 PM
Quote from: Newby on July 11, 2020, 03:49:31 PM
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on July 11, 2020, 03:25:01 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on July 11, 2020, 03:22:29 PM
You sound very convinced, Vinnie? Your usual..

Yep

Who would be your replacement Vinnie?  For Villa Manager that is, not your replacement on this site! (Perish the thought!!).

My choice isn’t glamorous. Dyche. He would get us up and turn us back into an established prem side.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 11, 2020, 03:56:15 PM
I can see why post Covid they gave him a chance. But game 2 or 3 in that should have been more than enough. I get faith and loyalty. But not to this extent
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 11, 2020, 03:57:35 PM
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on July 11, 2020, 03:55:16 PM
Quote from: Newby on July 11, 2020, 03:49:31 PM
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on July 11, 2020, 03:25:01 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on July 11, 2020, 03:22:29 PM
You sound very convinced, Vinnie? Your usual..

Yep

Who would be your replacement Vinnie?  For Villa Manager that is, not your replacement on this site! (Perish the thought!!).

My choice isn’t glamorous. Dyche. He would get us up and turn us back into an established prem side.

I will worry about a different manager and sexy football once we are established as a PL club. I’d happily take Dyche tomorrow
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TopDeck113 on July 11, 2020, 04:04:33 PM
Dyche would be a good choice. He must know that Burnley are as good as they're going to get. I also believe that his family home is still in Northampton, so the daily commute is going to be more than halved.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan82 on July 11, 2020, 04:12:21 PM
I would snap your hand off for Dyche. If he got us up I would take 5 seasons of finishing between 15th-12th place. It would be preferable to the absolute muck of the past ten years.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on July 11, 2020, 04:20:53 PM
The Dyche link has been around for a few months now. First I heard about it was from a Burnley supporting mate so guess the story broke up there rather than from Villa Park. If he is appointed it may help us keep Heaton.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: itbrvilla on July 11, 2020, 04:22:45 PM
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on July 11, 2020, 03:54:09 PM
Quote from: Bobby Boy on July 11, 2020, 03:51:38 PM
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on July 11, 2020, 03:20:21 PM
Quote from: Jon Crofts on July 11, 2020, 03:08:00 PM
Quote from: ez on July 11, 2020, 03:02:54 PM
Quote from: Bobby Boy on July 11, 2020, 02:24:06 PM
The owners need to explain why they didn't relieve Mr Smith of his duties in January or June.

If they dismiss him as our relegation is confirmed then that will be beyond a farce.

100%. Theres no logic to it at all.

I bet he’ll be here for game 1 in the Championship.

I’ll take that bet. He’s gone

If this proves to be true then the owners have big, big questions to answer. Mr Smith has been inept this season.

Why haven't they acted?

Their ineptitude is greater than his.

He was about to be sacked around Chelsea game. Then Covid happened and ruined that plan
But why? How does it make a difference?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Richard E on July 11, 2020, 04:25:01 PM
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on July 11, 2020, 03:25:01 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on July 11, 2020, 03:22:29 PM
You sound very convinced, Vinnie? Your usual..

Yep

I hope so. You don’t relegate Aston Villa and keep your job.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: purpletrousers on July 11, 2020, 04:26:33 PM
Quote from: itbrvilla on July 11, 2020, 04:22:45 PM
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on July 11, 2020, 03:54:09 PM
Quote from: Bobby Boy on July 11, 2020, 03:51:38 PM
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on July 11, 2020, 03:20:21 PM
Quote from: Jon Crofts on July 11, 2020, 03:08:00 PM
Quote from: ez on July 11, 2020, 03:02:54 PM
Quote from: Bobby Boy on July 11, 2020, 02:24:06 PM
The owners need to explain why they didn't relieve Mr Smith of his duties in January or June.

If they dismiss him as our relegation is confirmed then that will be beyond a farce.

100%. Theres no logic to it at all.

I bet he’ll be here for game 1 in the Championship.

I’ll take that bet. He’s gone

If this proves to be true then the owners have big, big questions to answer. Mr Smith has been inept this season.

Why haven't they acted?

Their ineptitude is greater than his.

He was about to be sacked around Chelsea game. Then Covid happened and ruined that plan
But why? How does it make a difference?

Not seeing your new players would have been a hard gig for a new manager maybe?
The chance that a ‘star’ player (S-ishJM) sorely missed would be back?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: colin69 on July 11, 2020, 04:27:44 PM
I just cannot get my head around billionaire owners sticking with him for so long when it’s obvious we are going down. How did they make their fortunes?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan82 on July 11, 2020, 04:31:18 PM
Quote from: Richard E on July 11, 2020, 04:25:01 PM
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on July 11, 2020, 03:25:01 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on July 11, 2020, 03:22:29 PM
You sound very convinced, Vinnie? Your usual..

Yep

I hope so. You don’t relegate Aston Villa and keep your job.

This. All day long. They should have sacked him, regardless. It wasn't working.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 11, 2020, 04:38:18 PM
Quote from: colin69 on July 11, 2020, 04:27:44 PM
I just cannot get my head around billionaire owners sticking with him for so long when it’s obvious we are going down. How did they make their fortunes?
If you hire a CEO you entrust them with executive responsibility for the organisation.
Billionaires know that you have to allow the CEO to run the business, they can not spend all of their time hiring and firing CEOs, if they did they would not be billionaires.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: colin69 on July 11, 2020, 04:46:34 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on July 11, 2020, 04:38:18 PM
Quote from: colin69 on July 11, 2020, 04:27:44 PM
I just cannot get my head around billionaire owners sticking with him for so long when it’s obvious we are going down. How did they make their fortunes?
If you hire a CEO you entrust them with executive responsibility for the organisation.
Billionaires know that you have to allow the CEO to run the business, they can not spend all of their time hiring and firing CEOs, if they did they would not be billionaires.

Fair comment. So my my next question is how the hell is Purslow still on a job when he’s failed so miserably?

I’m sure these guys have sacked enough people in their time to realise they are going to lose a hell of a lot of money.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on July 11, 2020, 04:54:31 PM
Quote from: colin69 on July 11, 2020, 04:27:44 PM
I just cannot get my head around billionaire owners sticking with him for so long when it’s obvious we are going down. How did they make their fortunes?

Plenty on here still thought he was going to keep us up as recently as a few weeks ago. Baffling as it may seem, it's possible our owners were operating under the same illusion.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 11, 2020, 04:54:50 PM
He’s got to go. It’s not just being relegated, it’s being relegated in such a meek way. If we’d played with quality this season and fought hard then I could see him staying even if we were relegated. But we haven’t, by and large we’ve been utter dross. It’s been particularly pathetic post-lockdown.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john2710 on July 11, 2020, 04:57:27 PM
I'm convinced Purslow saw the results against Leicester in the Cup as the sign the players / manager could pull it off.

When he should have been looking at the games at Watford, Southampton & Bournmouth as the indication of where things were heading.

Smith was gone if we'd lost to Chelsea before the lockdown. The club obviously thought we could reset & start again.

Going into a season with a frontline of Wesley, Davies, Trez & El Ghazi was criminal.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chris Smith on July 11, 2020, 04:57:58 PM
Trying to run a recruitment process when the country is in lockdown and the owners are on different continents would make the logistics of almost impossible so I can understand why the held off.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VinnieChase84 on July 11, 2020, 04:58:09 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on July 11, 2020, 04:54:50 PM
He’s got to go. It’s not just being relegated, it’s being relegated in such a meek way. If we’d played with quality this season and fought hard then I could see him staying even if we were relegated. But we haven’t, by and large we’ve been utter dross. It’s been particularly pathetic post-lockdown.

I’m expecting he goes inside 48 hours of the West Ham game. However, we can mathematically go down next Thursday night and it wouldn’t surprise me if he went Friday
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on July 11, 2020, 05:02:17 PM
I suspect they just thought trying to get a new manager settled and his ideas passed on to the squad during the lockdown was going to be too difficult. Keeping him looks like a mistake now but I'm not convinced it was the wrong decision even with how badly we were playing before the lockdown.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT Villan on July 11, 2020, 05:02:43 PM
Not sacking him in the last few games could be for a number of reasons...It will cost less compo once officially relegated and the preferred replacement is still employed at Burnley (or wherever) and wants to finish the season with them (which is a good thing).
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 11, 2020, 05:04:15 PM
We’re as good as relegated. Of course it was the wrong decision.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ger Regan on July 11, 2020, 05:04:33 PM
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on July 11, 2020, 04:58:09 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on July 11, 2020, 04:54:50 PM
He’s got to go. It’s not just being relegated, it’s being relegated in such a meek way. If we’d played with quality this season and fought hard then I could see him staying even if we were relegated. But we haven’t, by and large we’ve been utter dross. It’s been particularly pathetic post-lockdown.

I’m expecting he goes inside 48 hours of the West Ham game. However, we can mathematically go down next Thursday night and it wouldn’t surprise me if he went Friday
They absolutely should once is confirmed. It'll be a very short pre-season so we'll need to hit the ground running.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: colin69 on July 11, 2020, 05:05:28 PM
Quote from: Chris Smith on July 11, 2020, 04:57:58 PM
Trying to run a recruitment process when the country is in lockdown and the owners are on different continents would make the logistics of almost impossible so I can understand why the held off.

I can’t.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on July 11, 2020, 05:08:17 PM
Quote from: Risso on July 11, 2020, 05:04:15 PM
We’re as good as relegated. Of course it was the wrong decision.

Not really, who would've taken the job during the lockdown and how well would the change work without proper training? If there was someone lined up ready to come in just before the lockdown then fair enough but if they didn't have that then I just don't think you can say for sure that a change would've been 100% the right call.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan82 on July 11, 2020, 05:09:47 PM
Quote from: Chris Smith on July 11, 2020, 04:57:58 PM
Trying to run a recruitment process when the country is in lockdown and the owners are on different continents would make the logistics of almost impossible so I can understand why the held off.

Have they heard of ZOOM?

Football isn't exactly your run of the mill business, if you want a survival specialist you pick up the phone and get Big Sam.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on July 11, 2020, 05:16:32 PM
Quote from: paul_e on July 11, 2020, 05:08:17 PM
Quote from: Risso on July 11, 2020, 05:04:15 PM
We’re as good as relegated. Of course it was the wrong decision.

Not really, who would've taken the job during the lockdown and how well would the change work without proper training? If there was someone lined up ready to come in just before the lockdown then fair enough but if they didn't have that then I just don't think you can say for sure that a change would've been 100% the right call.

So the smart thing to do would have been to have friendly conversations with a number of targets before the season restarted and have one or two interested parties potentially willing to take over at short notice if Dean failed to pick up a win in his first 2-3 games. The promise of a £1m survival bonus would have been ample sweetener for the likes of Allardyce.

We've played 6 now and it's too late to affect anything ourselves at this point. I think it's a disgrace and it's total mismanagement from the top down, given the massive hole it's going to blow in Club finances.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: N'ZMAV on July 11, 2020, 05:19:12 PM
let's hope the owners have a plan for the championship
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on July 11, 2020, 05:22:47 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on July 11, 2020, 05:16:32 PM
Quote from: paul_e on July 11, 2020, 05:08:17 PM
Quote from: Risso on July 11, 2020, 05:04:15 PM
We’re as good as relegated. Of course it was the wrong decision.

Not really, who would've taken the job during the lockdown and how well would the change work without proper training? If there was someone lined up ready to come in just before the lockdown then fair enough but if they didn't have that then I just don't think you can say for sure that a change would've been 100% the right call.

So the smart thing to do would have been to have friendly conversations with a number of targets before the season restarted and have one or two interested parties potentially willing to take over at short notice if Dean failed to pick up a win in his first 2-3 games. The promise of a £1m survival bonus would have been ample sweetener for the likes of Allardyce.

We've played 6 now and it's too late to affect anything ourselves at this point. I think it's a disgrace and it's total mismanagement from the top down, given the massive hole it's going to blow in Club finances.

I agree, but that's a different topic to whether we should've sacked him during the lockdown.  All I can think is that they know who they want to talk to and know he's not available until the end of the season so they didn't want to roll the dice and be stuck with someone they don't want long term.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: nick harper on July 11, 2020, 05:29:22 PM
We’ll never know, but I wonder if conversations with potential managers had taken place after the Leicester debacle in the days leading up to Chelsea. I can see why Covid made them step back but it may turn out to be a huge turning point in our history if we can’t turn things round quickly next season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chris Smith on July 11, 2020, 05:55:49 PM
Quote from: Villan82 on July 11, 2020, 05:09:47 PM
Quote from: Chris Smith on July 11, 2020, 04:57:58 PM
Trying to run a recruitment process when the country is in lockdown and the owners are on different continents would make the logistics of almost impossible so I can understand why the held off.

Have they heard of ZOOM?

Football isn't exactly your run of the mill business, if you want a survival specialist you pick up the phone and get Big Sam.

We all know what happened the last time Fat Sam was seen on video.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OzVilla on July 11, 2020, 05:58:31 PM
Smith has been our worst performer this season amongst some pretty strong competition. If he keeps his job he’s an extremely lucky man.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 11, 2020, 06:00:29 PM
Quote from: colin69 on July 11, 2020, 04:46:34 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on July 11, 2020, 04:38:18 PM
Quote from: colin69 on July 11, 2020, 04:27:44 PM
I just cannot get my head around billionaire owners sticking with him for so long when it’s obvious we are going down. How did they make their fortunes?
If you hire a CEO you entrust them with executive responsibility for the organisation.
Billionaires know that you have to allow the CEO to run the business, they can not spend all of their time hiring and firing CEOs, if they did they would not be billionaires.

Fair comment. So my my next question is how the hell is Purslow still on a job when he’s failed so miserably?

I’m sure these guys have sacked enough people in their time to realise they are going to lose a hell of a lot of money.
As said before, they would have been asking questions December, they must have backed him to sort it out Jan, then we get to the LC Final, then Covid.
I would hope that Purslow is fired soon.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: David_Nab on July 11, 2020, 06:13:22 PM
Dyche's style of play is not  attractive I keep reading ,as if Smith style currently is. Infact we have no style  we are horrible to watch after almost a whole season inc a 3 month break we still resemble a team who have only just been put together.
Dyche plays long ball ..yeah because Mings rarely just punts it up the pitch.

Why didn't we sack him post Covid break , I can only imagine Purslow brought into the guff from Smith about getting the players to study how City and Liverpool play and with more coaching the team would come good.The only difference pre break is we concede less but this has been achieved by stifling the attacking aspect of the team and Luiz playing out of his skin.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Big Ming on July 11, 2020, 06:42:39 PM
Watching Sheffield Utd just now.

Average squad.

Fit, motivated and organised.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 11, 2020, 06:44:25 PM
Quote from: Big Ming on July 11, 2020, 06:42:39 PM
Watching Sheffield Utd just now.

Average squad.

Fit, motivated and organised.
you have to have that, it’s a given to compete.
Good teams work hard first, everything comes from that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 11, 2020, 06:51:19 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on July 11, 2020, 06:44:25 PM
Quote from: Big Ming on July 11, 2020, 06:42:39 PM
Watching Sheffield Utd just now.

Average squad.

Fit, motivated and organised.
you have to have that, it’s a given to compete.
Good teams work hard first, everything comes from that.

And that is the really disappointing thing about Dean - even if you can forgive the shit tactics, the bad use of Grealish, the piss poor game management, all of that stuff, you would at least expect to see some fitness and fight from the team.

There has been pretty much none of that, we've not looked really fit enough at any point this season, our fitness levels and application have been dreadful, nothing like good enough - these are things that should be an absolute given, a starting point.

Look at the state of McGinn since he has come back, for example. He looks Richard Dunn sized.

If we thought he had the players looking like they'd run through brick walls, like they could compete for 90 minutes, it would have bought him a lot more respect, but he has not, not at any point. That's really, really poor.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on July 11, 2020, 06:55:32 PM
That he’s been allowed to appear back in the side looking like that is simply beyond understanding and I’m quite a clever bloke.  Who is it that looks at him and says ‘yep he’s in shape and ready to fight for our survival.’  It’s really, really unprofessional.  Everyone I’ve spoken to not linked to Villa have noticed it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Big Ming on July 11, 2020, 07:01:51 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on July 11, 2020, 06:44:25 PM
Quote from: Big Ming on July 11, 2020, 06:42:39 PM
Watching Sheffield Utd just now.

Average squad.

Fit, motivated and organised.
you have to have that, it’s a given to compete.
Good teams work hard first, everything comes from that.
Watching Enda Stevens.

Wilder has turned him into a top left wing back.

Grrrr!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT on July 11, 2020, 07:04:18 PM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on July 11, 2020, 06:55:32 PM
That he’s been allowed to appear back in the side looking like that is simply beyond understanding and I’m quite a clever bloke.  Who is it that looks at him and says ‘yep he’s in shape and ready to fight for our survival.’  It’s really, really unprofessional.  Everyone I’ve spoken to not linked to Villa have noticed it.

Sports science people, physios, fitness coaches. I assume we employ them, and if so, what the fuck are they doing?

Who was monitoring McGinn, his weight, fitness etc? Shambolic. I heard much more professionalism from Wycombe Wanderers the other night. Could be interesting if we end up playing them next season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on July 11, 2020, 07:07:57 PM
I remember at the start of the season I was really looking forward to it because I'd bought into the Smith myth of no matter what the opposition we will always go and give it a go and try and win the game

What on earth happened

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 11, 2020, 07:09:56 PM
Quote from: john e on July 11, 2020, 07:07:57 PM
I remember at the start of the season I was really looking forward to it because I'd bought into the Smith myth of no matter what the opposition we will always go and give it a go and try and win the game

What on earth happened
It was bullshit from the get go.  You can't afford to be gung ho, all game every game, and definitely not in the PL.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on July 11, 2020, 07:11:18 PM
He did say the aim was to finish 1st.  I thought it was a bit ambitious but at least it showed the right mentality.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Big Ming on July 11, 2020, 07:16:40 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on July 11, 2020, 07:09:56 PM
Quote from: john e on July 11, 2020, 07:07:57 PM
I remember at the start of the season I was really looking forward to it because I'd bought into the Smith myth of no matter what the opposition we will always go and give it a go and try and win the game

What on earth happened
It was bullshit from the get go.  You can't afford to be gung ho, all game every game, and definitely not in the PL.
Don't want to kick him when he's down (and almost out) but his interviews never sound convincing.

You always feel there's a bit of a bullshitter in there.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan82 on July 11, 2020, 07:19:04 PM
If I'm honest, when he first came in and talked of the whole league 'sitting up and taking notice of villa' there were alarm bells ringing for me. Especially when we went on the dreadful winless run soon after.

All credit to him, he turned that around and gave us great times with the 10 game run and promotion. But, a lot of the other bits- before and after - have been unconvincing.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 11, 2020, 07:22:03 PM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on July 11, 2020, 06:55:32 PM
That he’s been allowed to appear back in the side looking like that is simply beyond understanding and I’m quite a clever bloke.  Who is it that looks at him and says ‘yep he’s in shape and ready to fight for our survival.’  It’s really, really unprofessional.  Everyone I’ve spoken to not linked to Villa have noticed it.

Similarly he thought Drinkwater's fitness levels were acceptable.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 11, 2020, 07:25:24 PM
Danny Drinkwater is like me on the driving range. Brilliant in practice (apparently) utterly shit when actually playing.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on July 11, 2020, 07:29:25 PM
Why is that at the end of every Villa Manager’s tenure we are talking about unprofessional standards, poor fitness levels, lack of application and meek acceptance of shitness.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on July 11, 2020, 07:35:42 PM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on July 11, 2020, 07:29:25 PM
Why is that at the end of every Villa Manager’s tenure we are talking about unprofessional standards, poor fitness levels, lack of application and meek acceptance of shitness.

I mentioned it the other day, our players seem far too comfortable with the trappings of being a PL player. To them, they've made it. Why stress, just enjoy it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: algy on July 11, 2020, 07:39:17 PM
It's killing me to say it, but I can't see how Dean can have a future at the club. It's not so much the relegation, it's the manner of it. There's no sign that he can get the team to fight for their place at the top table, to overperform, to pull off the incredible. We'll need that to break in to the top 6 and he sadly doesn't have it.

Hopefully Purslow has used the last few months wisely and has a replacement lined up who does have those qualities. I think Dean has been the best appointment in the last decade (admittedly in a weak field), but we apparently need better. We should be targeting managers who are proven at a Top 6 standard club in a quality, competitive league (England, Germany, Italy, Spain). No "potential", just go straight for existing, proven talent.

We _can_ waltz the Championship next season - I don't think the squad is as weak as it looks, even sans-Jack. Another year and I suspect Wes, Konsa, Luiz will look like absolute bargains. Maybe Marv & Trez when they're in a side that's doing the business on the pitch.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OzVilla on July 11, 2020, 10:20:47 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on July 11, 2020, 07:35:42 PM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on July 11, 2020, 07:29:25 PM
Why is that at the end of every Villa Manager’s tenure we are talking about unprofessional standards, poor fitness levels, lack of application and meek acceptance of shitness.

I mentioned it the other day, our players seem far too comfortable with the trappings of being a PL player. To them, they've made it. Why stress, just enjoy it.

Conor Hourihane is a good example for me. I like him, think we’ve  played better with him in and maybe I’m being harsh but do you recall at the start of the season him seeking out a random bloke who sent him a tweet from about 5 years ago saying he’d never be a PL footballer. Well not only did it come over as slightly petty I’m thinking, ‘hang on let’s see if you can hold down a place and perform before it warrants firing backs tweets to people.’ 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 11, 2020, 10:27:08 PM
Quote from: OzVilla on July 11, 2020, 10:20:47 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on July 11, 2020, 07:35:42 PM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on July 11, 2020, 07:29:25 PM
Why is that at the end of every Villa Manager’s tenure we are talking about unprofessional standards, poor fitness levels, lack of application and meek acceptance of shitness.

I mentioned it the other day, our players seem far too comfortable with the trappings of being a PL player. To them, they've made it. Why stress, just enjoy it.

Conor Hourihane is a good example for me. I like him, think we’ve  played better with him in and maybe I’m being harsh but do you recall at the start of the season him seeking out a random bloke who sent him a tweet from about 5 years ago saying he’d never be a PL footballer. Well not only did it come over as slightly petty I’m thinking, ‘hang on let’s see if you can hold down a place and perform before it warrants firing backs tweets to people.’
The bloke was right.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: David_Nab on July 11, 2020, 10:50:22 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on July 11, 2020, 06:51:19 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on July 11, 2020, 06:44:25 PM
Quote from: Big Ming on July 11, 2020, 06:42:39 PM
Watching Sheffield Utd just now.

Average squad.

Fit, motivated and organised.
you have to have that, it’s a given to compete.
Good teams work hard first, everything comes from that.

And that is the really disappointing thing about Dean - even if you can forgive the shit tactics, the bad use of Grealish, the piss poor game management, all of that stuff, you would at least expect to see some fitness and fight from the team.

There has been pretty much none of that, we've not looked really fit enough at any point this season, our fitness levels and application have been dreadful, nothing like good enough - these are things that should be an absolute given, a starting point.

Look at the state of McGinn since he has come back, for example. He looks Richard Dunn sized.

If we thought he had the players looking like they'd run through brick walls, like they could compete for 90 minutes, it would have bought him a lot more respect, but he has not, not at any point. That's really, really poor.

Turns out McGinn injured himself again ,another stress fracture  and didn't train during lockdown hence his poor conditioning
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The_ads on July 11, 2020, 10:54:52 PM
Quote from: David_Nab on July 11, 2020, 10:50:22 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on July 11, 2020, 06:51:19 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on July 11, 2020, 06:44:25 PM
Quote from: Big Ming on July 11, 2020, 06:42:39 PM
Watching Sheffield Utd just now.

Average squad.

Fit, motivated and organised.
you have to have that, it’s a given to compete.
Good teams work hard first, everything comes from that.

And that is the really disappointing thing about Dean - even if you can forgive the shit tactics, the bad use of Grealish, the piss poor game management, all of that stuff, you would at least expect to see some fitness and fight from the team.

There has been pretty much none of that, we've not looked really fit enough at any point this season, our fitness levels and application have been dreadful, nothing like good enough - these are things that should be an absolute given, a starting point.

Look at the state of McGinn since he has come back, for example. He looks Richard Dunn sized.

If we thought he had the players looking like they'd run through brick walls, like they could compete for 90 minutes, it would have bought him a lot more respect, but he has not, not at any point. That's really, really poor.

Turns out McGinn injured himself again ,another stress fracture  and didn't train during lockdown hence his poor conditioning

Then why the fuck is he playing?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on July 11, 2020, 11:48:01 PM
Quote from: David_Nab on July 11, 2020, 10:50:22 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on July 11, 2020, 06:51:19 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on July 11, 2020, 06:44:25 PM
Quote from: Big Ming on July 11, 2020, 06:42:39 PM
Watching Sheffield Utd just now.

Average squad.

Fit, motivated and organised.
you have to have that, it’s a given to compete.
Good teams work hard first, everything comes from that.

And that is the really disappointing thing about Dean - even if you can forgive the shit tactics, the bad use of Grealish, the piss poor game management, all of that stuff, you would at least expect to see some fitness and fight from the team.

There has been pretty much none of that, we've not looked really fit enough at any point this season, our fitness levels and application have been dreadful, nothing like good enough - these are things that should be an absolute given, a starting point.

Look at the state of McGinn since he has come back, for example. He looks Richard Dunn sized.

If we thought he had the players looking like they'd run through brick walls, like they could compete for 90 minutes, it would have bought him a lot more respect, but he has not, not at any point. That's really, really poor.

Turns out McGinn injured himself again ,another stress fracture  and didn't train during lockdown hence his poor conditioning

There is no excuse for McGinns conditioning. Seems like he had KFC on speed dial during the lockdown.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ROBBO on July 12, 2020, 01:59:02 AM
The failure of management over the last decade is the players that we believd were not good enough to play for Villa, yet have gone on and had success at other clubs and will be playing in the premiership next season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on July 12, 2020, 05:40:34 AM
Quote from: The_ads on July 11, 2020, 10:54:52 PM
Quote from: David_Nab on July 11, 2020, 10:50:22 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on July 11, 2020, 06:51:19 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on July 11, 2020, 06:44:25 PM
Quote from: Big Ming on July 11, 2020, 06:42:39 PM
Watching Sheffield Utd just now.

Average squad.

Fit, motivated and organised.
you have to have that, it’s a given to compete.
Good teams work hard first, everything comes from that.

And that is the really disappointing thing about Dean - even if you can forgive the shit tactics, the bad use of Grealish, the piss poor game management, all of that stuff, you would at least expect to see some fitness and fight from the team.

There has been pretty much none of that, we've not looked really fit enough at any point this season, our fitness levels and application have been dreadful, nothing like good enough - these are things that should be an absolute given, a starting point.

Look at the state of McGinn since he has come back, for example. He looks Richard Dunn sized.

If we thought he had the players looking like they'd run through brick walls, like they could compete for 90 minutes, it would have bought him a lot more respect, but he has not, not at any point. That's really, really poor.

Turns out McGinn injured himself again ,another stress fracture  and didn't train during lockdown hence his poor conditioning

Then why the fuck is he playing?

I haven’t heard that, is this true about John?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OzVilla on July 12, 2020, 06:03:31 AM
So it’s been reported on here that they’ve admitted fitness has been an issue all season, we don’t know either our strongest starting XI or a best formation. Now, much as I think our recruiting has been poor, this is 100% on the management team.

The level of free passes DS is getting by some Villa fans on social media and Villa podcasts is mind blowing. 

Look at Sheffield Utd, well organised, well drilled, great attitude and very fit. Then look at us. It’s embarrassing.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on July 12, 2020, 07:43:52 AM
there isn't one objective measurement that would point to Dean having earned the right to carry on.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 12, 2020, 07:44:22 AM
Whatever was said here must have been truly inspiring.
(https://i.ibb.co/ssMczZb/65326-ADE-638-D-4-EB2-9-E90-1-DB73-A0389-C1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ssMczZb)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OzVilla on July 12, 2020, 07:59:31 AM
It was for the cameras, for the romance of being on the pitch at Wembley, it was our Phill Brown team talk moment. And look how that turned out. Utterly futile.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on July 12, 2020, 08:34:28 AM
I don't see a problem with that picture at all. It was just a post match huddle after losing a cup final, nothing more. There's a lot to be annoyed about this season. That isn't one of them.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on July 12, 2020, 08:42:33 AM
Quote from: mr underhill on July 12, 2020, 07:43:52 AM
there isn't one objective measurement that would point to Dean having earned the right to carry on.

Well I’m sure he will be arguing that the future objective will be to get us promoted and he’s done it before, recently, and not with any team. With this one.

I really can’t see the owners wearing this seasons failure but if he leads us into next year, I’d be fairly confident we’d be challengers from the off.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OzVilla on July 12, 2020, 08:46:38 AM
Quote from: Clampy on July 12, 2020, 08:34:28 AM
I don't see a problem with that picture at all. It was just a post match huddle after losing a cup final, nothing more. There's a lot to be annoyed about this season. That isn't one of them.

Because it could have been done in the changing room, in private. Why else if it’s not for public consumption. Not the biggest issue we’re facing granted but to then follow it up with the performances since indicates to me it was more spin than substance.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on July 12, 2020, 09:06:01 AM
Disagree, its just a post match huddle. I'm amazed how anyone can get annoyed about something so trivial.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OzVilla on July 12, 2020, 09:10:47 AM
I’m not annoyed, it was just unnecessary at the time and reeked of symbolism. Whats that saying, Don’t tell me, show me.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on July 12, 2020, 09:14:57 AM
It was just a bonding exercise, like shaking hands every morning.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 12, 2020, 09:17:52 AM
of course there is some logic to retaining Smith, he knows the dDivision, he knows the players and he has done it before.
The problem is the stench of failure and the message of acceptance of that failure. Some people want him fired to punish him and that is understandable.

it is what is best for the club, and that in my opinion is that he should go because his failings and weakness have been laid bare and label him as simply not good enough for the level we aspire to.

I will allways be grateful for what he did last season but it has got us nowhere.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 12, 2020, 09:19:48 AM
Quote from: Clampy on July 12, 2020, 09:06:01 AM
Disagree, its just a post match huddle. I'm amazed how anyone can get annoyed about something so trivial.
Same here,, it looks futile now but so what.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on July 12, 2020, 09:51:49 AM
Quote from: PeterWithe on July 12, 2020, 08:42:33 AM
Quote from: mr underhill on July 12, 2020, 07:43:52 AM
there isn't one objective measurement that would point to Dean having earned the right to carry on.

Well I’m sure he will be arguing that the future objective will be to get us promoted and he’s done it before, recently, and not with any team. With this one.

I really can’t see the owners wearing this seasons failure but if he leads us into next year, I’d be fairly confident we’d be challengers from the off.


If we go down I don't think we can be confident of challenging for promotion "from the off". At this point we have no idea who the manager might be next season and we have no idea who will be playing for us next season. I wouldn't predict anything until the close of the transfer window when we know what our squad is going into the season. Also on that subject what/when is the transfer window this time around?


Just checked and the transfer window opens on 26th July but there is no close date as yet.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ez on July 12, 2020, 10:39:19 AM
The poor form carried over from before the lockdown. With that in mind who's to say it won't carry over into next season. We definately need a shake up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan82 on July 12, 2020, 11:09:58 AM
Quote from: Clampy on July 12, 2020, 09:06:01 AM
Disagree, its just a post match huddle. I'm amazed how anyone can get annoyed about something so trivial.

Yeah, well, there you go. Good on you.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: David_Nab on July 12, 2020, 11:14:11 AM
Quote from: Damo70 on July 12, 2020, 09:51:49 AM
Quote from: PeterWithe on July 12, 2020, 08:42:33 AM
Quote from: mr underhill on July 12, 2020, 07:43:52 AM
there isn't one objective measurement that would point to Dean having earned the right to carry on.

Well I’m sure he will be arguing that the future objective will be to get us promoted and he’s done it before, recently, and not with any team. With this one.

I really can’t see the owners wearing this seasons failure but if he leads us into next year, I’d be fairly confident we’d be challengers from the off.


If we go down I don't think we can be confident of challenging for promotion "from the off". At this point we have no idea who the manager might be next season and we have no idea who will be playing for us next season. I wouldn't predict anything until the close of the transfer window when we know what our squad is going into the season. Also on that subject what/when is the transfer window this time around?


Just checked and the transfer window opens on 26th July but there is no close date as yet.

The quick start of next season will mean should be drop we are going to likely start the season with players we need to shift out and untill we do we can't bring any in.

Say we fail to win any of the next 4 games this idea that a team that hasn't won in 9 months with the same manager and a confidence drained squad is going to start winning is fanciable.That first season down last time was shambles for that very reason , on paper that team we started with that season should have been walking the league ( as people are saying about the current team) but it rarely works like that.

 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 12, 2020, 11:17:39 AM
Agree D Nab! The worst thing would be a period of shall we shan’t we.
We need strong decisive leadership for a change.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on July 12, 2020, 11:20:13 AM
I wouldn’t hold out too much hope for Dyche.  The porn dwarves want him apparently.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on July 12, 2020, 11:21:07 AM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on July 12, 2020, 11:20:13 AM
I wouldn’t hold out too much hope for Dyche.  The porn dwarves want him apparently.

That would be some video.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on July 12, 2020, 12:00:14 PM
The pornos are vile fuckwits but given a straight choice Dyche would be barmy to turn therm down in favour of the on-going clusterfuck what is Aston Villa. We love the club, clusterfuck or not, but why should he!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: wince on July 12, 2020, 12:44:03 PM
If dean had any inkling he was going to be sacked, could that also have contributed to our post lockdown horror show? Or are we going to stick with him and become a championship fixture?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john2710 on July 12, 2020, 12:53:49 PM
Whatever the outcome of the next 2 weeks Smith won't be here in 3 weeks time.

Quite why Dyche would want to come here is beyond me.

It's been clear since the Southampton game at VP that things aren't right & with few exceptions we haven't shown the fight necessary to survive.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 12, 2020, 01:22:13 PM
Once again 2 left footed CB’s starting with a right footed CB at RB with two fit actual RB’s on the bench. And Trez starts. I give up
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on July 12, 2020, 01:25:41 PM
I don't mind Treseguet starting. He was unlucky not to score the other night although that's the only thing he did.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 12, 2020, 01:36:03 PM
Quote from: Clampy on July 12, 2020, 01:25:41 PM
I don't mind Treseguet starting. He was unlucky not to score the other night although that's the only thing he did.

You don't mind that a player had one shot and contributed absolutely nothing else for 90 minutes?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan82 on July 12, 2020, 01:38:02 PM
Quote from: Risso on July 12, 2020, 01:36:03 PM
Quote from: Clampy on July 12, 2020, 01:25:41 PM
I don't mind Treseguet starting. He was unlucky not to score the other night although that's the only thing he did.

You don't mind that a player had one shot and contributed absolutely nothing else for 90 minutes 9 months?

Fixed that for you.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on July 12, 2020, 01:39:02 PM
Quote from: Risso on July 12, 2020, 01:36:03 PM
Quote from: Clampy on July 12, 2020, 01:25:41 PM
I don't mind Treseguet starting. He was unlucky not to score the other night although that's the only thing he did.

You don't mind that a player had one shot and contributed absolutely nothing else for 90 minutes?

No.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 12, 2020, 01:42:00 PM
Quote from: Clampy on July 12, 2020, 01:39:02 PM
Quote from: Risso on July 12, 2020, 01:36:03 PM
Quote from: Clampy on July 12, 2020, 01:25:41 PM
I don't mind Treseguet starting. He was unlucky not to score the other night although that's the only thing he did.

You don't mind that a player had one shot and contributed absolutely nothing else for 90 minutes?

No.

That's how resigned to shitness we are.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 12, 2020, 01:42:10 PM
Fair enough, each to their own.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on July 12, 2020, 01:43:13 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on July 12, 2020, 01:42:00 PM
Quote from: Clampy on July 12, 2020, 01:39:02 PM
Quote from: Risso on July 12, 2020, 01:36:03 PM
Quote from: Clampy on July 12, 2020, 01:25:41 PM
I don't mind Treseguet starting. He was unlucky not to score the other night although that's the only thing he did.

You don't mind that a player had one shot and contributed absolutely nothing else for 90 minutes?

No.

That's how resigned to shitness we are.

I'm struggling to think what El Ghazi has done since the re-start as well.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 12, 2020, 01:47:22 PM
Quote from: Clampy on July 12, 2020, 01:43:13 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on July 12, 2020, 01:42:00 PM
Quote from: Clampy on July 12, 2020, 01:39:02 PM
Quote from: Risso on July 12, 2020, 01:36:03 PM
Quote from: Clampy on July 12, 2020, 01:25:41 PM
I don't mind Treseguet starting. He was unlucky not to score the other night although that's the only thing he did.

You don't mind that a player had one shot and contributed absolutely nothing else for 90 minutes?

No.

That's how resigned to shitness we are.

I'm struggling to think what El Ghazi has done since the re-start as well.

What's that got to do with Trezeguet, though?

Almost all of them have done nothing since the restart, and recently we've seen some utterly wretched performances. Some of them - most, in fact - have delivered nothing all season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 12, 2020, 01:48:40 PM
We have to field 11 players.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on July 12, 2020, 01:51:29 PM
Because he normally plays both or one or the other so I was comparing both seeing as they both wide men. Like you said though, no-body has really done anything other than Doug.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 12, 2020, 01:53:16 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on July 12, 2020, 01:48:40 PM
We have to field 11 players.

We don't have to. Just pick seven and the game gets abandoned. Always a chance they'll just call it a draw as it's too late in the season to rearrange. 🤞
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on July 12, 2020, 01:56:40 PM
Quote from: Clampy on July 12, 2020, 01:43:13 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on July 12, 2020, 01:42:00 PM
Quote from: Clampy on July 12, 2020, 01:39:02 PM
Quote from: Risso on July 12, 2020, 01:36:03 PM
Quote from: Clampy on July 12, 2020, 01:25:41 PM
I don't mind Treseguet starting. He was unlucky not to score the other night although that's the only thing he did.

You don't mind that a player had one shot and contributed absolutely nothing else for 90 minutes?

No.

That's how resigned to shitness we are.

I'm struggling to think what El Ghazi has done since the re-start as well.

He normally manages to play well for two minutes a game before disappearing again.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on July 12, 2020, 04:43:18 PM
Never should have played today! 😉
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on July 12, 2020, 05:15:38 PM
That's the best game I've seen him have in a Villa shirt.  Credit where it is due.  I still think he has been a very poor signing but well done today.  Lovely first goal and neat finish for the second.  I hope this lifts him for the rest of the season and we sell him on.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on July 12, 2020, 06:32:44 PM
Quote from: Risso on July 12, 2020, 01:36:03 PM
Quote from: Clampy on July 12, 2020, 01:25:41 PM
I don't mind Treseguet starting. He was unlucky not to score the other night although that's the only thing he did.

You don't mind that a player had one shot and contributed absolutely nothing else for 90 minutes?

Some posts don't age well.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on July 12, 2020, 06:44:31 PM
Not really. He’s been mostly shit but he was great today - a completely different player. It’s great for us, but who on here called it?

Doesn’t mean people were wrong to say he was shit, when he was.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on July 12, 2020, 06:45:57 PM
Smith got lucky with the Hause withdrawal.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aev on July 12, 2020, 07:09:58 PM
Quote from: Mister E on July 12, 2020, 06:45:57 PM
Smith got lucky with the Hause withdrawal.

Let’s hope he gets a bit more luck over the next 3 games.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: rougegorge on July 12, 2020, 07:24:37 PM
Quote from: Mister E on July 12, 2020, 06:45:57 PM
Smith got lucky with the Hause withdrawal.
My thoughts as well!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 12, 2020, 07:25:47 PM
Quote from: Clampy on July 12, 2020, 06:32:44 PM
Quote from: Risso on July 12, 2020, 01:36:03 PM
Quote from: Clampy on July 12, 2020, 01:25:41 PM
I don't mind Treseguet starting. He was unlucky not to score the other night although that's the only thing he did.

You don't mind that a player had one shot and contributed absolutely nothing else for 90 minutes?

Some posts don't age well.
And if anyone's going to drag them up, it'll be you.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on July 12, 2020, 07:30:27 PM
We’re still in the position of having to win a minimum of two of our last three games.  I wouldn’t say ‘happy day’s are here again’ because Trezeguet decides to turn up for once.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on July 12, 2020, 07:31:48 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on July 12, 2020, 07:25:47 PM
Quote from: Clampy on July 12, 2020, 06:32:44 PM
Quote from: Risso on July 12, 2020, 01:36:03 PM
Quote from: Clampy on July 12, 2020, 01:25:41 PM
I don't mind Treseguet starting. He was unlucky not to score the other night although that's the only thing he did.

You don't mind that a player had one shot and contributed absolutely nothing else for 90 minutes?

Some posts don't age well.
And if anyone's going to drag them up, it'll be you.

And if anyone's going to defend it.... Etc etc.

He's not been brilliant for us, if only he'd nailed that chance the other night. But this is at least a step in the right direction.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 12, 2020, 07:35:17 PM
Quote from: Drummond on July 12, 2020, 07:31:48 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on July 12, 2020, 07:25:47 PM
Quote from: Clampy on July 12, 2020, 06:32:44 PM
Quote from: Risso on July 12, 2020, 01:36:03 PM
Quote from: Clampy on July 12, 2020, 01:25:41 PM
I don't mind Treseguet starting. He was unlucky not to score the other night although that's the only thing he did.

You don't mind that a player had one shot and contributed absolutely nothing else for 90 minutes?

Some posts don't age well.
And if anyone's going to drag them up, it'll be you.

And if anyone's going to defend it.... Etc etc.

He's not been brilliant for us, if only he'd nailed that chance the other night. But this is at least a step in the right direction.
I'm not defending it etc.  We've all posted stuff on here that later turned out to be foolish.  I certainly have, you have, Clampy has.  Do we really want to go down that route?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on July 12, 2020, 07:37:06 PM
One-upmanship is nothing new on here.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 12, 2020, 07:38:13 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on July 12, 2020, 07:37:06 PM
One-upmanship is nothing new on here.

if you don't like it nobody's making you stay.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 12, 2020, 08:03:14 PM
Well I’ve cited Dean being a streak manager as being negative, let’s hope he goes on a 4 match winning streak now!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on July 12, 2020, 08:12:18 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 12, 2020, 07:38:13 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on July 12, 2020, 07:37:06 PM
One-upmanship is nothing new on here.

if you don't like it nobody's making you stay.

But it would be such a shame to miss out on your classic rejoinders, Dave
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on July 13, 2020, 11:41:48 AM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on July 12, 2020, 07:35:17 PM

I'm not defending it etc.  We've all posted stuff on here that later turned out to be foolish.  I certainly have, you have, Clampy has.  Do we really want to go down that route?

We all say stuff in the heat of the moment. Of course I've got things wrong. I defend managers longer than most on here, with some, I'm sure I've been wrong, others I'm not so sure.

What I do know is that we need some stability, we need to see a project through. We were always likely to be hovering around the lower reaches of the table this season, and our manager was bound to make mistakes, as were the players. Unfortunately, the players have made errors at crucial times and cost us a lot of points. I happen to think that Smith shouldn't lose his job over it.

We've been in a situation with a lot of inexperience at the same time and that doesn't help. I really thought we'd have done better than we have coming back in this scenario, but it hasn't worked out like that.

In my view, even if we go down, I think Smith should stay; there are too many mitigating circumstances to make him lose his job.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 13, 2020, 12:35:18 PM
Quote from: Drummond on July 13, 2020, 11:41:48 AM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on July 12, 2020, 07:35:17 PM

I'm not defending it etc.  We've all posted stuff on here that later turned out to be foolish.  I certainly have, you have, Clampy has.  Do we really want to go down that route?

We all say stuff in the heat of the moment. Of course I've got things wrong. I defend managers longer than most on here, with some, I'm sure I've been wrong, others I'm not so sure.

What I do know is that we need some stability, we need to see a project through. We were always likely to be hovering around the lower reaches of the table this season, and our manager was bound to make mistakes, as were the players. Unfortunately, the players have made errors at crucial times and cost us a lot of points. I happen to think that Smith shouldn't lose his job over it.

We've been in a situation with a lot of inexperience at the same time and that doesn't help. I really thought we'd have done better than we have coming back in this scenario, but it hasn't worked out like that.

In my view, even if we go down, I think Smith should stay; there are too many mitigating circumstances to make him lose his job.

Some fair points there.  For me Suso at the very least needs to go, as I think we're mostly agreed that the recruitment has just not been up to scratch, and the Smith/Suso combination just hasn't worked. I'm still very much in the 'Smith Out' camp, because I just haven't seen anything like enough in the training, the improvement of players or the motivation stakes.  But stay up, and if his staying is combined with a real in depth review of what went wrong, with lessons learned, then I wouldn't be too displeased with him staying.  Go down fighting, and there's case to be made either way for him staying or going.  Revert to type against Everton and Arsenal etc, and it's the curly finger in my opinion.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on July 13, 2020, 01:38:12 PM
Admittedly against a very mediocre Palace side, we got lucky with the Hause injury (no slur on Hause here).
We also seemed to profit from both Hourihane and Grealish being deployed further up the pitch. Was this Smith responding to the opposition or him stumbling across a winning strategy?
When we win so many free kicks, why have we not found a way to play Hourihane more regularly, since he seems head and shoulders above anyone else in delivering the ball into dangerous places?
Nakamba looked better when he came into a winning team yesterday .... playing on the front foot seems to suit everyone!

I put these up as examples of either Smith getting tactically sharper (eventually) or a series of serendipitous events that conspired to make us look good!

Would the real Dean Smith please stand up?!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdward on July 13, 2020, 01:42:01 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on July 12, 2020, 07:37:06 PM
One-upmanship is nothing new on here.
Oh yes it is..
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan82 on July 13, 2020, 01:43:38 PM
Slim Shady in
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on July 13, 2020, 01:45:48 PM
I've gone back and forth on Smith over the last 6months but as I said the other day the way we gave up once Man U got their penalty was the tipping point for me. I saw nothing from Smith to show he had any idea how to handle that and I just don't think we can carry that inexperience any more. If we were a slightly older team of people who'd been around this league for a few years we could ride it out and let him take some time to learn from his mistakes but as is the management and players are feeding each other and dragging us below the standard I think this squad is capable of.  Replacing the manager is cheaper, quicker and easier than the alternative so for me he goes after the west ham game regardless of what league we're in at that point.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Virgil Caine on July 13, 2020, 01:46:08 PM
Good points made there Mister E. I would only add that Douglas Luis allowed Hourihane to have less focus on the defensive side of his game which we all know is hardly his strong point. A big up to Tres as well- he is a limited player but he does defend and hassle when he does not have the ball. His work rate was excellent yesterday.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chris Smith on July 13, 2020, 01:51:37 PM
Quote from: Mister E on July 13, 2020, 01:38:12 PM
Admittedly against a very mediocre Palace side, we got lucky with the Hause injury (no slur on Hause here).
We also seemed to profit from both Hourihane and Grealish being deployed further up the pitch. Was this Smith responding to the opposition or him stumbling across a winning strategy?
When we win so many free kicks, why have we not found a way to play Hourihane more regularly, since he seems head and shoulders above anyone else in delivering the ball into dangerous places?
Nakamba looked better when he came into a winning team yesterday .... playing on the front foot seems to suit everyone!

I put these up as examples of either Smith getting tactically sharper (eventually) or a series of serendipitous events that conspired to make us look good!

Would the real Dean Smith please stand up?!

I think we a similar display against Man U up until we conceded and then, not for the first time, the confidence just drained from the players. Maybe if their ‘goal’ hadn’t been overturned by VAR then we might have seen similar yesterday. It suggests that we have a team capable of performing at a higher level than the league position reflects but that confidence is fragile. This could be down to the manager or the players or most likely a combination of both due to the experiences of the season.

Whatever happens this a couple of characters who will drag the team through tough spells would make a huge difference for the next campaign.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KevinGage on July 13, 2020, 02:05:11 PM
Quote from: paul_e on July 13, 2020, 01:45:48 PM
I've gone back and forth on Smith over the last 6months but as I said the other day the way we gave up once Man U got their penalty was the tipping point for me. I saw nothing from Smith to show he had any idea how to handle that and I just don't think we can carry that inexperience any more. If we were a slightly older team of people who'd been around this league for a few years we could ride it out and let him take some time to learn from his mistakes but as is the management and players are feeding each other and dragging us below the standard I think this squad is capable of.  Replacing the manager is cheaper, quicker and easier than the alternative so for me he goes after the west ham game regardless of what league we're in at that point.

Same as that.

It's not that you'd expect to turn over Manchester United, Tottingham etc but teams around and at different points below us have all had the ability to win games they weren't expected to -  Bournemouth as recently as yesterday.  Or eek out valuable points at least. We've either been too passive in similar games (v Chelsea, Wolves and Man U since the restart) or sunk our own boat from positions of promise.

I hope this is dreadfully premature and we get 4-6 points of Everton and Arsenal next up, obv.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 13, 2020, 02:08:24 PM
Agree Chris, the fact that we have been ahead in so many games against top teams shows that the team is more capable than the league position indicates. My view is that this has been significantly down to the manager, 87 minutes 1.0 at home to Liverpool was a case in point look at the subs, Arsenal away again. We have lost more games from winning positions than anyone.
This is why he deserves to go.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on July 13, 2020, 02:09:17 PM
Quote from: paul_e on July 13, 2020, 01:45:48 PM
I've gone back and forth on Smith over the last 6months but as I said the other day the way we gave up once Man U got their penalty was the tipping point for me. I saw nothing from Smith to show he had any idea how to handle that and I just don't think we can carry that inexperience any more. If we were a slightly older team of people who'd been around this league for a few years we could ride it out and let him take some time to learn from his mistakes but as is the management and players are feeding each other and dragging us below the standard I think this squad is capable of.  Replacing the manager is cheaper, quicker and easier than the alternative so for me he goes after the west ham game regardless of what league we're in at that point.

I'm not sure it's that easy. If we replace the manager, we'll also need to replace Suso and any new man will want his own players in.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Jockey Randall on July 13, 2020, 02:18:32 PM
I think Smith has clearly learned from mistakes he made earlier in the season. According to Understat yesterday was the 4th time since the restart we've limited the opposition to an expected goals total of below 1, where as we'd only managed that twice before the restart against Newcastle and West Ham at home. We've also limited Chelsea and Liverpool to a relatively low amount of high quality chances against and I think you could argue we have deserved more points than we've got in the last 7 games.

I think they've clearly looked at it during lockdown and realised we were way too open against better sides earlier in the season. It was a mistake on Smith's part and could ultimately cost us but he deserves credit for learning from it and it gives me encouragement going forward.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 13, 2020, 02:22:57 PM
Quote from: Jockey Randall on July 13, 2020, 02:18:32 PM
I think Smith has clearly learned from mistakes he made earlier in the season. According to Understat yesterday was the 4th time since the restart we've limited the opposition to an expected goals total of below 1, where as we'd only managed that twice before the restart against Newcastle and West Ham at home. We've also limited Chelsea and Liverpool to a relatively low amount of high quality chances against and I think you could argue we have deserved more points than we've got in the last 7 games.

I think they've clearly looked at it during lockdown and realised we were way too open against better sides earlier in the season. It was a mistake on Smith's part and could ultimately cost us but he deserves credit for learning from it and it gives me encouragement going forward.
The speed of his learning isn’t exactly reassuring,  relegation zone, 28 games games played,second worst goals conceded and “ maybe let’s try to stop the opposition scoring so often. Doh
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on July 13, 2020, 02:44:48 PM
Quote from: Drummond on July 13, 2020, 02:09:17 PM
Quote from: paul_e on July 13, 2020, 01:45:48 PM
I've gone back and forth on Smith over the last 6months but as I said the other day the way we gave up once Man U got their penalty was the tipping point for me. I saw nothing from Smith to show he had any idea how to handle that and I just don't think we can carry that inexperience any more. If we were a slightly older team of people who'd been around this league for a few years we could ride it out and let him take some time to learn from his mistakes but as is the management and players are feeding each other and dragging us below the standard I think this squad is capable of.  Replacing the manager is cheaper, quicker and easier than the alternative so for me he goes after the west ham game regardless of what league we're in at that point.

I'm not sure it's that easy. If we replace the manager, we'll also need to replace Suso and any new man will want his own players in.

Easier, not easy.

New players are happening this summer regardless so replacing the manager 'now' and letting his replacement be involved in those signings is easier than letting the current lot make signings and then looking for a new manager 10 games in because the problems are still there.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 13, 2020, 02:52:48 PM
Quote from: paul_e on July 13, 2020, 02:44:48 PM
New players are happening this summer regardless so replacing the manager 'now' and letting his replacement be involved in those signings is easier than letting the current lot make signings and then looking for a new manager 10 games in because the problems are still there.
Agreed.  Progress will always cost money.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tomd2103 on July 13, 2020, 03:24:04 PM
Quote from: paul_e on July 13, 2020, 01:45:48 PM
I've gone back and forth on Smith over the last 6months but as I said the other day the way we gave up once Man U got their penalty was the tipping point for me. I saw nothing from Smith to show he had any idea how to handle that and I just don't think we can carry that inexperience any more. If we were a slightly older team of people who'd been around this league for a few years we could ride it out and let him take some time to learn from his mistakes but as is the management and players are feeding each other and dragging us below the standard I think this squad is capable of.  Replacing the manager is cheaper, quicker and easier than the alternative so for me he goes after the west ham game regardless of what league we're in at that point.

If he keeps us up, then I think he'll deserve the first few games to show some improvement and lessons learned.  I woukd definitely want to see a reshuffle of his coaching team and the addition of some experienced players through the the spine of the side to show some lessons had be learned. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on July 13, 2020, 04:01:58 PM
Quote from: Virgil Caine on July 13, 2020, 01:46:08 PM
Good points made there Mister E. I would only add that Douglas Luis allowed Hourihane to have less focus on the defensive side of his game which we all know is hardly his strong point. A big up to Tres as well- he is a limited player but he does defend and hassle when he does not have the ball. His work rate was excellent yesterday.
True, Virg, true.

My concern is that, when he came in, Smith positioned himself as a learner; someone who would quickly use each matchday experience as an opportunity to develop and adapt.
His learning pace appears to have been glacial, and yesterday's game served as an example where - rather than him making positive changes - some changes were forced upon him. Credit for playing Hourihane and (presumably) playing JG further advanced.
All of which begs the question: what will he do on Thursday - stay on the front foot or retreat into a more cautious set-up?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on July 13, 2020, 04:08:50 PM
If we want to get anywhere near the top 6 an upgrade is required.  Harsh, but there is no loyalty in football.  Either, stay up or go down, Dean goes.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan82 on July 13, 2020, 04:09:06 PM
The  most frustrating aspect of all this is that a more cautious approach would have served us better at the start of the season. If we had 2 or 3 more draws than losses we would have had more of a cushion all season.

What we would give to have that point away at Arsenal and a point from the game at home to Spurs.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on July 13, 2020, 04:12:25 PM
Quote from: Newby on July 13, 2020, 04:08:50 PM
If we want to get anywhere near the top 6 an upgrade is required.  Harsh, but there is no loyalty in football.  Either, stay up or go down, Dean goes.

Top 6 of which?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on July 13, 2020, 04:27:07 PM
don’t think he’s learned much to be honest
if he had it his way yesterday we would have gone with Hause and Taylor in the back 4

it was providence that changed two of those players and gave us a better balance and more of an attacking threat in a backs to the wall do or die game

and why is Guilbert still sitting on the bench

as far as I’m concerned he’s actually looked more and more confused and out of his depth the longer the season has gone on rather than leaning anything

I lost confidence in his ability quite a while ago and yesterday only confirmed he hasn’t got much of a clue really
nice man though he is and Villa man to boot we need better

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on July 13, 2020, 04:40:39 PM
Quote from: john e on July 13, 2020, 04:27:07 PM
don’t think he’s learned much to be honest
if he had it his way yesterday we would have gone with Hause and Taylor in the back 4

it was providence that changed two of those players and gave us a better balance and more of an attacking threat in a backs to the wall do or die game

and why is Guilbert still sitting on the bench

as far as I’m concerned he’s actually looked more and more confused and out of his depth the longer the season has gone on rather than leaning anything

I lost confidence in his ability quite a while ago and yesterday only confirmed he hasn’t got much of a clue really
nice man though he is and Villa man to boot we need better

I'm not sure how a 2-0 win could confirm a manager hasn't got much of a clue, bit there we go.

We might have won by more had the original 11 played, nobody will ever know.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on July 13, 2020, 04:46:31 PM
Quote from: Drummond on July 13, 2020, 04:40:39 PM
Quote from: john e on July 13, 2020, 04:27:07 PM
don’t think he’s learned much to be honest
if he had it his way yesterday we would have gone with Hause and Taylor in the back 4

it was providence that changed two of those players and gave us a better balance and more of an attacking threat in a backs to the wall do or die game

and why is Guilbert still sitting on the bench

as far as I’m concerned he’s actually looked more and more confused and out of his depth the longer the season has gone on rather than leaning anything

I lost confidence in his ability quite a while ago and yesterday only confirmed he hasn’t got much of a clue really
nice man though he is and Villa man to boot we need better

I'm not sure how a 2-0 win could confirm a manager hasn't got much of a clue, bit there we go.

We might have won by more had the original 11 played, nobody will ever know.


eerr I’ve explained why
it’s just my opinion we need someone better

I know you disagree that’s fine
we have to post honestly about how we feel we obviously won’t all agree
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on July 13, 2020, 04:54:36 PM
Of course.

I just read it and see that we lose it's his fault, we win it's not his doing. We perform well, it's the players, we perform badly it's the manager. I happen to think there are lots of reasons for it all and that it isn't all about Smith.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on July 13, 2020, 05:13:39 PM
Quote from: Drummond on July 13, 2020, 04:54:36 PM
Of course.

I just read it and see that we lose it's his fault, we win it's not his doing. We perform well, it's the players, we perform badly it's the manager. I happen to think there are lots of reasons for it all and that it isn't all about Smith.


I find it difficult to criticise Smith because I like him so much
like you say there is other things to get right as well but the manager for me is the most important and I don’t think he can take us any further on what I’ve seen as the season has gone on including yesterday like I said

I’m the biggest fan of Grealish on this site I honestly think he could play for Barcelona and not look out of place
but if I’m honest I didn’t think he was all that great yesterday
so even though we won 2 0 it didn’t colour what I saw in Grealish’s performance and I know others thought he was a lot better

then to balance the negativity I thought Elmo was challenging Luiz for the MOTM
now I don’t think I’ve ever said many good things about him in the past on here if any but I thought he was great yesterday and improved the team when he came on

so like I say I try and post honestly as to how I see things when they happen even if it doesn’t fit very well with whatever the scoreline was or my own personal views on players etc



Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: N'ZMAV on July 13, 2020, 05:38:22 PM
I'll like any manager that wins more than they lose.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on July 13, 2020, 06:04:56 PM
Fickle as feck, Dolly knew what he was on about.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 13, 2020, 06:19:47 PM
I didn't want Dean in the first place but thought he did a great job getting us up.  This season though has been dreadful.  Yesterday's result and performance was very good but it would be fickle of me to change my mind about him after one game.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: N'ZMAV on July 13, 2020, 09:03:50 PM
Smith was the man to take us into this season. It's clear after almost a whole season he's out of his depth. Shame.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on July 13, 2020, 09:16:46 PM
He would have sound credentials to be the man to get us back up. If we stay up, is he the man to consolidate and get us a nice safe mid table finish next year? I'd have more doubts about the latter than the former.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: RamboandBruno on July 13, 2020, 09:39:45 PM
Quote from: john e on July 13, 2020, 04:27:07 PM
don’t think he’s learned much to be honest
if he had it his way yesterday we would have gone with Hause and Taylor in the back 4

it was providence that changed two of those players and gave us a better balance and more of an attacking threat in a backs to the wall do or die game

and why is Guilbert still sitting on the bench

as far as I’m concerned he’s actually looked more and more confused and out of his depth the longer the season has gone on rather than leaning anything

I lost confidence in his ability quite a while ago and yesterday only confirmed he hasn’t got much of a clue really
nice man though he is and Villa man to boot we need better

Taylor did nothing wrong before getting injured yesterday and played reasonably well at Liverpool also. I understand Targett gives more of an attacking threat and played well when he came on yesterday, but Smiths also been slated on here for continuing to play Targett at times. Again Hause is one of the few players who has been pretty steady in every game through the whole of the restart, so I don’t really get the ‘Smith got lucky’ rhetoric.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on July 13, 2020, 10:33:49 PM
Quote from: N'ZMAV on July 13, 2020, 09:03:50 PM
Smith was the man to take us into this season. It's clear after almost a whole season he's out of his depth. Shame.

Some managers are right for a specific job. Dare I say it, Sherwood gave us some fun times and delayed the inevitable, but the complicated business of buying players and the attritional demands of a whole season were too much for his poor little brain.

Dean coming in was perfect. A villa man, employed the flat track bully approach we’d been crying out for in the championship, promotion was a genuinely great achievement from where he started.

But I don’t think he’s enjoyed the premier league. Grinding out a point a game, all that pressure, never that far from a fixture where you might get done 6-0. It’s a totally different job to the one he took on.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on July 13, 2020, 11:02:43 PM
Quote from: Mister E on July 13, 2020, 01:38:12 PM
Admittedly against a very mediocre Palace side, we got lucky with the Hause injury (no slur on Hause here).
We also seemed to profit from both Hourihane and Grealish being deployed further up the pitch. Was this Smith responding to the opposition or him stumbling across a winning strategy?
When we win so many free kicks, why have we not found a way to play Hourihane more regularly, since he seems head and shoulders above anyone else in delivering the ball into dangerous places?
Nakamba looked better when he came into a winning team yesterday .... playing on the front foot seems to suit everyone!

I put these up as examples of either Smith getting tactically sharper (eventually) or a series of serendipitous events that conspired to make us look good!

Would the real Dean Smith please stand up?!

Hourihane was absolutely shocking v Chelsea, including from set pieces, so was deservedly dropped. Nakamba has been decidedly average all season. I don't think there are many valid hard luck stories on why certain players have been in and out of the team. Id give Smith a bit of a pass on that generally. Countless players have played themselves out of the team.

But Smith has never put in place a solid structure in the team, never made consistently good in- game tactical adjustments or subs, very rare cases of individual players actually improving as the season has gone on and obviously needs to take a degree of responsibility for the recruitment shambles. All reasons why he should be no longer in the job, not to mind ruling him out for retaining the job past the next few games.

All from Purslow down need to go, and the entire strength and conditioning (or sport science) function needs to be ripped up and started again.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 14, 2020, 06:17:45 AM
Good points Bronte, no consensus on the second best player of the season (although Luiz post lockdown form has it).
How much is this about not playing the same team after a bad result poor performance?
Agree, players getting back in and playing Themselves out of the team has been common this season.
There have been some abject individual and team performances.
Interesting to know why.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Taylor on July 14, 2020, 06:59:45 AM
The way I see it is people make it sound so easy, just sack everyone and start again, the same thing we‘ve been doing since MON left. It’s never worked. Just maybe a bit of continuity is what we need. I understand that Smith has been poor this season and on the face of it hasn’t learnt the lessons, but the premier league is an unforgiving place  to learn. I think the biggest lesson he will have learnt is that the players just aren’t good enough, how on earth do you put that right in less than a season.

Anyway, I don’t believe the owners will sack him if we go down, and certainly won’t if we stay up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: RamboandBruno on July 14, 2020, 07:17:29 AM
Quote from: Taylor on July 14, 2020, 06:59:45 AM
The way I see it is people make it sound so easy, just sack everyone and start again, the same thing we‘ve been doing since MON left. It’s never worked. Just maybe a bit of continuity is what we need. I understand that Smith has been poor this season and on the face of it hasn’t learnt the lessons, but the premier league is an unforgiving place  to learn. I think the biggest lesson he will have learnt is that the players just aren’t good enough, how on earth do you put that right in less than a season.

Anyway, I don’t believe the owners will sack him if we go down, and certainly won’t if we stay up.

Agree with this. I’ve been a defender if you like of smith most of the season, largely because of what you say. Post lockdown and in the lowest moments, post wolves and Man U in particular, I’ve thought enoughs enough. However, it’s a massive if, but if we stay up, I would of thought that is the objective prior to the season achieved and I think they will stick with him.
If that is the case, it’s then finding the balance between building on the players we can guess will improve, Luiz, Konsa maybe, Targett maybe, and those who have shown there probably not going to be good enough, Trez I’d say, el Ghazi, maybe nakamba, poss hourihane.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 14, 2020, 07:46:11 AM
I get the continuity and he is learning argument.
But how long is it going to take him to learn?
What are our expectations?
If we are happy with an average manage, then expect an average team achieving average results. Sadly I have seen nothing to suggest that Smith is likely to be much above average. This season he has not even achieved that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: simboy on July 14, 2020, 08:10:54 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on July 14, 2020, 07:46:11 AM
I get the continuity and he is learning argument.
But how long is it going to take him to learn?
What are our expectations?
If we are happy with an average manage, then expect an average team achieving average results. Sadly I have seen nothing to suggest that Smith is likely to be much above average. This season he has not even achieved that.


And that's the problem. We start again. New manager, new backroom staff, new squad, new training and tactics, new ethos, new everything. The turn around next season will be particularly quick from relegation [if it happens] to starting  again. Is it ten managers in the last ten years? It just doesn't work. 

 We will not attract a "marque" manager [Poch or Benitez mentioned is pure fantasy]. So we either get lucky [a Nuno] or, far more likely, we get another donkey, [and have we had some real donkeys] dispense with buying young and instead get journeymen and has beens to get us out of the division [Jedenek, Whelan, Terry, etc.] who are too old, or were never good enough, to cut it in the Premiership, and the whole cycle begins again. 

Personally, in the unusual circumstances of a Covid world, i would give him until Christmas whichever division we are in. Put a plan in place, look at what the club as a strategy wants to do. I have far more faith in the owners than I had in any of the last three or four, perhaps I am being naive, but what they have shown at other sporting franchises they own is a plan.

However, I do understand that the awful recent performances don't give support to the argument.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on July 14, 2020, 08:12:08 AM
Quote from: RamboandBruno on July 14, 2020, 07:17:29 AM
Quote from: Taylor on July 14, 2020, 06:59:45 AM
The way I see it is people make it sound so easy, just sack everyone and start again, the same thing we‘ve been doing since MON left. It’s never worked. Just maybe a bit of continuity is what we need. I understand that Smith has been poor this season and on the face of it hasn’t learnt the lessons, but the premier league is an unforgiving place  to learn. I think the biggest lesson he will have learnt is that the players just aren’t good enough, how on earth do you put that right in less than a season.

Anyway, I don’t believe the owners will sack him if we go down, and certainly won’t if we stay up.

Agree with this. I’ve been a defender if you like of smith most of the season, largely because of what you say. Post lockdown and in the lowest moments, post wolves and Man U in particular, I’ve thought enoughs enough. However, it’s a massive if, but if we stay up, I would of thought that is the objective prior to the season achieved and I think they will stick with him.
If that is the case, it’s then finding the balance between building on the players we can guess will improve, Luiz, Konsa maybe, Targett maybe, and those who have shown there probably not going to be good enough, Trez I’d say, el Ghazi, maybe nakamba, poss hourihane.

Would any other Manager have been able to get more out of these players?  Would any other manager been able to snatch a draw from the jaws of defeat because he outwitted the opposition Manager?  Could Dean have done anything different from what we have seen of them this season?  These are questions that we will never know the answer to as we can only speculate.  However, bumming around at the bottom of the table and dropping back in to the Championship is wholly unacceptable for the football club.  Someone has to take responsibility, if it happens.  Also, all businesses, all football clubs, should attempt to improve.  Therefore, a review at the end of the season will be undertaken by the owners and CEO and they will make decisions at that point.  I am sure that, if they think there is a better manager/coach out there than Dean Smith, they will make the changes.  My own personal view is that Dean has not been capable enough at this level and, even if it is unforgiving, i would not want to come back up with a rookie, if, that happens.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: RamboandBruno on July 14, 2020, 08:26:05 AM
Quote from: Newby on July 14, 2020, 08:12:08 AM
Quote from: RamboandBruno on July 14, 2020, 07:17:29 AM
Quote from: Taylor on July 14, 2020, 06:59:45 AM
The way I see it is people make it sound so easy, just sack everyone and start again, the same thing we‘ve been doing since MON left. It’s never worked. Just maybe a bit of continuity is what we need. I understand that Smith has been poor this season and on the face of it hasn’t learnt the lessons, but the premier league is an unforgiving place  to learn. I think the biggest lesson he will have learnt is that the players just aren’t good enough, how on earth do you put that right in less than a season.

Anyway, I don’t believe the owners will sack him if we go down, and certainly won’t if we stay up.

Agree with this. I’ve been a defender if you like of smith most of the season, largely because of what you say. Post lockdown and in the lowest moments, post wolves and Man U in particular, I’ve thought enoughs enough. However, it’s a massive if, but if we stay up, I would of thought that is the objective prior to the season achieved and I think they will stick with him.
If that is the case, it’s then finding the balance between building on the players we can guess will improve, Luiz, Konsa maybe, Targett maybe, and those who have shown there probably not going to be good enough, Trez I’d say, el Ghazi, maybe nakamba, poss hourihane.

Would any other Manager have been able to get more out of these players?  Would any other manager been able to snatch a draw from the jaws of defeat because he outwitted the opposition Manager?  Could Dean have done anything different from what we have seen of them this season?  These are questions that we will never know the answer to as we can only speculate.  However, bumming around at the bottom of the table and dropping back in to the Championship is wholly unacceptable for the football club.  Someone has to take responsibility, if it happens.  Also, all businesses, all football clubs, should attempt to improve.  Therefore, a review at the end of the season will be undertaken by the owners and CEO and they will make decisions at that point.  I am sure that, if they think there is a better manager/coach out there than Dean Smith, they will make the changes.  My own personal view is that Dean has not been capable enough at this level and, even if it is unforgiving, i would not want to come back up with a rookie, if, that happens.

I understand what your saying and agree with many aspects of it. I just think if their objective at the start of the season was to at least stay up and we achieve that target, then I’m not sure they will let him go. Granted, if by late October we look like it’s going to a similar season with similar mistakes being made, then the bullet may be fired.
Think it all becomes irrelevant if we lose to Everton in Thursday and think he probably will go if we’re relegated.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on July 14, 2020, 08:51:48 AM
there's no success like failure and failure's no success at all.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on July 14, 2020, 09:40:52 AM
You know, if we'd had a settled squad without so much churn and new inexperienced players, if he'd been here longer, if he hadn't been promoted last season, i.e. We had another season in the championship first and we were doing as we are the following season, I'd understand the call for sacking him and I'd probably be doing it myself.

However, this is the first full season, the first time to do a full of review of the squad he has. I think he and we deserve an opportunity to see what he can do. A chance to deliver. We all know we should be eating at the top table, but rather than just being there and not knowing which cutlery to use, let's make sure we know which fork is which so that we can fill ourselves.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tomd2103 on July 14, 2020, 09:50:23 AM
I guess it would also depend on who is out there and available.  If we go down, then I would look to change as we can't really face another extended spell down there.  If we stay up, then I think he would deserve a chance to improve things next season, but he would be on very thin ice.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on July 14, 2020, 09:53:23 AM
We were and are asking for 17th place.  Not Europe.  If we achieve that then I suppose it’s job done.  But I wouldn’t want to take the same risk next season.

He’s made so many errors this season and it’s either learning on the job or he’s not up to it.  The same failing starting eleven is one example.  Another one that was pointed out to me recently was with that Manure game lost maybe taking Jack off for a rest - it’s the little things. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 14, 2020, 09:56:07 AM
Quote from: Drummond on July 14, 2020, 09:40:52 AM
You know, if we'd had a settled squad without so much churn and new inexperienced players, if he'd been here longer, if he hadn't been promoted last season, i.e. We had another season in the championship first and we were doing as we are the following season, I'd understand the call for sacking him and I'd probably be doing it myself.

However, this is the first full season, the first time to do a full of review of the squad he has. I think he and we deserve an opportunity to see what he can do. A chance to deliver. We all know we should be eating at the top table, but rather than just being there and not knowing which cutlery to use, let's make sure we know which fork is which so that we can fill ourselves.

Assuming we stay up, what would you say though if somebody like Pochettino let it be known they fancied the job?  Do you risk that Dean Smith is suddenly going to find that he is up to the Premier League, or do you give it to somebody who has proved himself at the highest level?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AVH87 on July 14, 2020, 10:11:46 AM
Those of us that lost faith in Smith a while ago (for me it was Dec/Jan results and performances), the only way he can win us round is with front-foot, committed performances from now until the end of the season. If he go down on the last day fighting, but having picked up decent results in the last three, just maybe he can earn the right to have the chance to bring us straight back next season. Definitely want a Suso replacement trusted with spending the Grealish money though.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on July 14, 2020, 10:19:37 AM
I like Smith and really want him to do well but he's been far to passive since the lockdown ended. There's been a few games where we've lost and haven't used all the subs despite a couple of players being out on their feet. There's been games where there was an obvious weakness being targeted and he ignored it until after we'd conceded through that exact spot because he seems to have planned out what he's going to do before the game starts and he doesn't deviate from that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdward on July 14, 2020, 10:32:27 AM
i am happy to stick with Smith regardless of what division we end up in, but with the intention being that 10 games into next season we need to see the improvements.
Unless the owners go for a big name manager, there is no point swapping Smith.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chris Smith on July 14, 2020, 11:23:31 AM
Quote from: mr underhill on July 14, 2020, 08:51:48 AM
there's no success like failure and failure's no success at all.

Thank you, Mr Zimmerman.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan82 on July 14, 2020, 11:41:07 AM
The reason I have been 'anti' is a simple one.

McLeish and Lambert were judged as terrible managers who nearly relegated us when, a few seasons prior, we had been pushing for top four.

However, both McLeish and Lambert were always good for either grinding out enough draws (McLeish) when there was a lack of fire-power due to injury or getting big results against your Liverpools, Chelseas, Arsenals etc (more so Lambert). Even Sherwood got us a great win away at White Hart Lane.

Smith hasn't delivered on grinding out a point per game average. Games that should have been drawn have been lost through carelessness & the best result against a top side is the draw at Old Trafford.  This is why we only have 30 points after 35 games & have been under serious pressure all season.

If he wins the next three and keeps us up he will have got us (and himself) out of jail & deserves another crack but I would say he would be on thin ice if it looked like happening again.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on July 14, 2020, 11:44:46 AM
We were promoted a year ahead of schedule apparently, and I wonder if Purslow thought that Dean would make the necessary changes/management improvements over a couple of years and be able to cope with life in the Premier Division?  This is perhaps the reason he hasn't been fired?  Given Dean had no management experience of top flight football, perhaps it isn't a surprise to Purslow that we aren't doing as well as we might, given the whole new squad thrown in too.  I wonder if Purslow is thinking that Smith is the right man to bring us back up and that his year in the Prem will stand him in good stead? I'm hypothesising of course.  Purslow is a far better businessman than I am and I would have sacked Dean Smith already, perhaps wrongly as Dean may get better with experience.  Time will tell. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on July 14, 2020, 11:54:45 AM
Quote from: Chris Smith on July 14, 2020, 11:23:31 AM
Quote from: mr underhill on July 14, 2020, 08:51:48 AM
there's no success like failure and failure's no success at all.

Thank you, Mr Zimmerman.

Voice of sand and glue
Gave your heart to every bedsit room
Sat behind a million pair of eyes
Told them how they saw
Don't suppose we'll meet
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TonyD on July 14, 2020, 12:08:31 PM
New manager please whether we stay up or go down.   
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on July 14, 2020, 12:13:17 PM
Quote from: Newby on July 14, 2020, 11:44:46 AM
We were promoted a year ahead of schedule apparently, and I wonder if Purslow thought that Dean would make the necessary changes/management improvements over a couple of years and be able to cope with life in the Premier Division?  This is perhaps the reason he hasn't been fired?  Given Dean had no management experience of top flight football, perhaps it isn't a surprise to Purslow that we aren't doing as well as we might, given the whole new squad thrown in too.  I wonder if Purslow is thinking that Smith is the right man to bring us back up and that his year in the Prem will stand him in good stead? I'm hypothesising of course.  Purslow is a far better businessman than I am and I would have sacked Dean Smith already, perhaps wrongly as Dean may get better with experience.  Time will tell. 

My guess would be Purslow is well aware he's been handed a bunch of players simply not fit for purpose in the PL given our particular circumstances.   
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 14, 2020, 01:03:19 PM
Quote from: Villan82 on July 14, 2020, 11:41:07 AM
The reason I have been 'anti' is a simple one.

McLeish and Lambert were judged as terrible managers who nearly relegated us when, a few seasons prior, we had been pushing for top four.

However, both McLeish and Lambert were always good for either grinding out enough draws (McLeish) when there was a lack of fire-power due to injury or getting big results against your Liverpools, Chelseas, Arsenals etc (more so Lambert). Even Sherwood got us a great win away at White Hart Lane.

Smith hasn't delivered on grinding out a point per game average. Games that should have been drawn have been lost through carelessness & the best result against a top side is the draw at Old Trafford.  This is why we only have 30 points after 35 games & have been under serious pressure all season.

If he wins the next three and keeps us up he will have got us (and himself) out of jail & deserves another crack but I would say he would be on thin ice if it looked like happening again.

McLeish & Lambert had better players to work with and most importantly Lambert had a goalscorer.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ozzjim on July 14, 2020, 01:04:35 PM
Quote from: Newby on July 14, 2020, 11:44:46 AM
We were promoted a year ahead of schedule apparently, and I wonder if Purslow thought that Dean would make the necessary changes/management improvements over a couple of years and be able to cope with life in the Premier Division?  This is perhaps the reason he hasn't been fired?  Given Dean had no management experience of top flight football, perhaps it isn't a surprise to Purslow that we aren't doing as well as we might, given the whole new squad thrown in too.  I wonder if Purslow is thinking that Smith is the right man to bring us back up and that his year in the Prem will stand him in good stead? I'm hypothesising of course.  Purslow is a far better businessman than I am and I would have sacked Dean Smith already, perhaps wrongly as Dean may get better with experience.  Time will tell. 

In fairness the one i world happily replace him with, Dyche, did exactly that at Burnley. Up, down, up, consolidate.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan82 on July 14, 2020, 01:10:58 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 14, 2020, 01:03:19 PM
Quote from: Villan82 on July 14, 2020, 11:41:07 AM
The reason I have been 'anti' is a simple one.

McLeish and Lambert were judged as terrible managers who nearly relegated us when, a few seasons prior, we had been pushing for top four.

However, both McLeish and Lambert were always good for either grinding out enough draws (McLeish) when there was a lack of fire-power due to injury or getting big results against your Liverpools, Chelseas, Arsenals etc (more so Lambert). Even Sherwood got us a great win away at White Hart Lane.

Smith hasn't delivered on grinding out a point per game average. Games that should have been drawn have been lost through carelessness & the best result against a top side is the draw at Old Trafford.  This is why we only have 30 points after 35 games & have been under serious pressure all season.

If he wins the next three and keeps us up he will have got us (and himself) out of jail & deserves another crack but I would say he would be on thin ice if it looked like happening again.

McLeish & Lambert had better players to work with and most importantly Lambert had a goalscorer.

I don't disagree with you there to be honest. Though both did have some very average players, off the top of my head: Westwood, Ahmadi, Bennett, Lichaj, Clark, Sylla, N'Zogbia etc. I would imagine, also, that both would have liked to have worked with Grealish at the stage he's at now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 14, 2020, 01:20:29 PM
Quote from: Villan82 on July 14, 2020, 01:10:58 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 14, 2020, 01:03:19 PM
Quote from: Villan82 on July 14, 2020, 11:41:07 AM
The reason I have been 'anti' is a simple one.

McLeish and Lambert were judged as terrible managers who nearly relegated us when, a few seasons prior, we had been pushing for top four.

However, both McLeish and Lambert were always good for either grinding out enough draws (McLeish) when there was a lack of fire-power due to injury or getting big results against your Liverpools, Chelseas, Arsenals etc (more so Lambert). Even Sherwood got us a great win away at White Hart Lane.

Smith hasn't delivered on grinding out a point per game average. Games that should have been drawn have been lost through carelessness & the best result against a top side is the draw at Old Trafford.  This is why we only have 30 points after 35 games & have been under serious pressure all season.

If he wins the next three and keeps us up he will have got us (and himself) out of jail & deserves another crack but I would say he would be on thin ice if it looked like happening again.

McLeish & Lambert had better players to work with and most importantly Lambert had a goalscorer.

I don't disagree with you there to be honest. Though both did have some very average players, off the top of my head: Westwood, Ahmadi, Bennett, Lichaj, Clark, Sylla, N'Zogbia etc. I would imagine, also, that both would have liked to have worked with Grealish at the stage he's at now.

i'm sure they would, although they also had some quality left as well. But the main thing is that Lambert had Benteke, who was always likely to go on the sort of goalscoring run that would save any team. Equally, when McLeish had Bent we weren't tearing up trees but we were looking safe enough. The inability to bring in a striker who would get even ten goals a season is what's done for us.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: garyellis on July 14, 2020, 01:39:02 PM
For me its the goals against column that's done the damage. Sheff Utd have scored the same amount but conceded 32 goals less. Their top scorer is McBurnie with 6.
How much of that falls on Dean?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan82 on July 14, 2020, 02:04:50 PM
Wesley has 5 league goals so it's not unreasonable to assume he would have got to 9-10 if he hadn't been injured. As you point out, the goals against have really hurt us and, in my opinion, we were too open at the start of the season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: wozwebs on July 14, 2020, 02:09:10 PM
Samatta started off OK but since the restart has looked like he's won a competition to lead the Villa front line. Been awful.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: simboy on July 14, 2020, 02:20:07 PM
Quote from: garyellis on July 14, 2020, 01:39:02 PM
For me its the goals against column that's done the damage. Sheff Utd have scored the same amount but conceded 32 goals less. Their top scorer is McBurnie with 6.
How much of that falls on Dean?


Agree. If there has been one major error this season it has been the failure to defend. Mings has had at least one mistake per game in him, i think we have used so many combinations of centre halves I have lost count, and we have lacked a consistently decent defensive midfielder.  The performance of the defence , by and large [not always!], since we have restarted has been better as Luiz has established himself in that more defensive role.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 14, 2020, 02:33:28 PM
The defence has been poor but that wouldn't have mattered so much if we'd had a semi-reliable goalscorer.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: WarszaVillan on July 14, 2020, 02:37:36 PM
The Burnley match was the turning point for me. Heaton getting injured has left us without a top class goalie and Wesley was starting to look the part in that game, linking up well and scoring before also getting injured for the season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 14, 2020, 02:49:57 PM
It's the defence that's cost us more than the attack. Newcastle, Brighton, Palace have all scored less than us. Everton are 15 points ahead of us and have scored 3 more than us. It's the defence that's meant we've dropped a load of points after leading and i'd fancy more often than not the team with the second worst defence in the league ends up relegated.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on July 14, 2020, 02:54:01 PM
Not conceding has to be the foundation stone of any survival campaign.
When we came up at the end of last season, we had a relatively poor goals-against record; and not just a result of Bruce's early-season tenure. So, we had form for defensive frailty, not addressed in this campaign.


Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on July 14, 2020, 03:18:56 PM
great news - Clive Tyldesley has been axed by ITV.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on July 14, 2020, 03:27:59 PM
My grandson, reading Medieval History suggests that Clive Tydesley should be more correctly, being of Plantagenet stock, Clive De Tyseley, making him one of us.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chris Smith on July 14, 2020, 03:28:26 PM
Quote from: Mister E on July 14, 2020, 02:54:01 PM
Not conceding has to be the foundation stone of any survival campaign.
When we came up at the end of last season, we had a relatively poor goals-against record; and not just a result of Bruce's early-season tenure. So, we had form for defensive frailty, not addressed in this campaign.




Our defensive record was about average for the league until Heaton got crocked. Steer and Nyland are both decent shot stoppers but neither seemEd to organise those in front of them. It’s been ok again since the restart as they’ve obviously had time to work on it again with an experienced keeper.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 14, 2020, 03:29:08 PM
Quote from: brian green on July 14, 2020, 03:27:59 PM
My grandson, reading Medieval History suggests that Clive Tydesley should be more correctly, being of Plantagenet stock, Clive De Tyseley, making him one of us.

Before I potentially disagree, is this the six foot four boxing grandson?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chris Smith on July 14, 2020, 03:29:48 PM
Quote from: brian green on July 14, 2020, 03:27:59 PM
My grandson, reading Medieval History suggests that Clive Tydesley should be more correctly, being of Plantagenet stock, Clive De Tyseley, making him one of us.

But he’s a Man Utd fan so not really one of us.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brend'Watkins on July 14, 2020, 03:57:27 PM
Tyldesley hasn't been sacked.  Just demoted to number 2.  His sob story is on twitter.  ITV are bastards though.  They could have waited till he was next in Barcelona and phoned him up at 9 or 10 PM with the news.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on July 14, 2020, 04:16:52 PM
I saw that video on Twitter earlier. It was two and a half minutes of him saying that he wasn't bitter whilst spending two and a half minutes sounding bitter.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 14, 2020, 04:18:34 PM
Quote from: brian green on July 14, 2020, 03:27:59 PM
My grandson, reading Medieval History suggests that Clive Tydesley should be more correctly, being of Plantagenet stock, Clive De Tyseley, making him one of us.

I used to live in Tyldesley in Wigan.  The name comes from Old English meaning Tilwald's Clearing [in a forest].
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 14, 2020, 04:28:03 PM
Quote from: Clampy on July 14, 2020, 04:16:52 PM
I saw that video on Twitter earlier. It was two and a half minutes of him saying that he wasn't bitter whilst spending two and a half minutes sounding bitter.

I can live with that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on July 14, 2020, 04:43:51 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on July 14, 2020, 12:13:17 PM
Quote from: Newby on July 14, 2020, 11:44:46 AM
We were promoted a year ahead of schedule apparently, and I wonder if Purslow thought that Dean would make the necessary changes/management improvements over a couple of years and be able to cope with life in the Premier Division?  This is perhaps the reason he hasn't been fired?  Given Dean had no management experience of top flight football, perhaps it isn't a surprise to Purslow that we aren't doing as well as we might, given the whole new squad thrown in too.  I wonder if Purslow is thinking that Smith is the right man to bring us back up and that his year in the Prem will stand him in good stead? I'm hypothesising of course.  Purslow is a far better businessman than I am and I would have sacked Dean Smith already, perhaps wrongly as Dean may get better with experience.  Time will tell. 

My guess would be Purslow is well aware he's been handed a bunch of players simply not fit for purpose in the PL given our particular circumstances.   

Part of the decision making though is about whether Smith could have got more from them.  Luiz has improved really well but why haven't the others?  Is Sunday's game now Trezeguet's coming of age etc? 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: algy on July 14, 2020, 04:45:15 PM
I think the main problem this season hasn't so much been the quality of the signings as the fragility of their self-belief. How many times have they thrown away a result / good performance because there's been a setback and it's knocked them for six (Man Utd home being the latest example)?

Smith isn't a great motivator, that much has been obvious since he joined. He can't turn around a poor streak. We need an assistant manager who can do that, a bit like John Gregory when he was Brian Little's assistant manager.

John Terry isn't that person it seems, so maybe it's a good time for us & him to part company. Played a vital role in maintaining continuity between the Bruce and Smith regimes - thanks for that, best of luck, bye.

As others have said - there's plenty of mitigating circumstances this season so unless we get a massive manager upgrade and go for the sort of manager Man City or Liverpool would go for, I don't think it's time for a change just yet. Obviously if we go down and start struggling it'll be time to reassess, but personally I think the team's progressed this season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on July 14, 2020, 04:47:01 PM
Yes it is the six foot four Chatteris slugger.  In the footsteps of Dave Boy Green.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 14, 2020, 04:48:21 PM
Quote from: brian green on July 14, 2020, 04:47:01 PM
Yes it is the six foot four Chatteris slugger.  In the footsteps of Dave Boy Green.

I agree with him. On everything.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 14, 2020, 04:56:39 PM
Why do you give any manager 10 games into the new season?
You either think he should be our manager or not. Its like trying to get half pregnant, its a stupid idea.
If it fucks up you have a squad, backroom staff and set up based on a manager that is no longer with you.
You then have to appoint a new manager who will want his own staff and a new set up. On top of that you have a bunch of players chosen to play to the previous managers failed system.
Just say, I dont know or I am undecided.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on July 14, 2020, 05:06:24 PM
Me too.  I just give him money.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 14, 2020, 05:07:15 PM
ROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY


Clive shouts orgasmically, as Rooney promptly scuffs it out for a throw in.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy65 on July 14, 2020, 05:11:30 PM
Quote from: Bren'd on July 14, 2020, 03:57:27 PM
Tyldesley hasn't been sacked.  Just demoted to number 2.  His sob story is on twitter.  ITV are bastards though.  They could have waited till he was next in Barcelona and phoned him up at 9 or 10 PM with the news.

Talk of it being ageist apparently and he is moaning about the decision. However, he is 65, has probably made a shed load of cash over the last 22 years, enjoyed himself with travelling etc on a large expense account, garnered a good reputation (with some) but now is the time to move on and let a younger guy or gal take over. Nothing wrong with the decision in my view and I can say that as a mid 50 something myself. Sometimes you've got to move on after a great run and let someone younger make their own career

His comments today are as self centred as his commentary normally is
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on July 14, 2020, 05:16:12 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on July 14, 2020, 05:07:15 PM
ROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY


Clive shouts orgasmically, as Rooney promptly scuffs it out for a throw in.

Didn't he do that once when Rooney wasnt even playing? I'm sure he did.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: DB on July 14, 2020, 05:19:01 PM
Quote from: Rudy65 on July 14, 2020, 05:11:30 PM
Quote from: Bren'd on July 14, 2020, 03:57:27 PM
Tyldesley hasn't been sacked.  Just demoted to number 2.  His sob story is on twitter.  ITV are bastards though.  They could have waited till he was next in Barcelona and phoned him up at 9 or 10 PM with the news.

Talk of it being ageist apparently and he is moaning about the decision. However, he is 65, has probably made a shed load of cash over the last 22 years, enjoyed himself with travelling etc on a large expense account, garnered a good reputation (with some) but now is the time to move on and let a younger guy or gal take over. Nothing wrong with the decision in my view and I can say that as a mid 50 something myself. Sometimes you've got to move on after a great run and let someone younger make their own career

His comments today are as self centred as his commentary normally is

The younger guy looks like it's Matterface. Awful Partridge esq and a total tool.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on July 14, 2020, 05:45:47 PM
yep was married to the utterly shagtastic Natalie Sawyer.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on July 14, 2020, 05:55:54 PM
Quote from: Chris Smith on July 14, 2020, 03:28:26 PM
Quote from: Mister E on July 14, 2020, 02:54:01 PM
Not conceding has to be the foundation stone of any survival campaign.
When we came up at the end of last season, we had a relatively poor goals-against record; and not just a result of Bruce's early-season tenure. So, we had form for defensive frailty, not addressed in this campaign.
Our defensive record was about average for the league until Heaton got crocked. Steer and Nyland are both decent shot stoppers but neither seemEd to organise those in front of them. It’s been ok again since the restart as they’ve obviously had time to work on it again with an experienced keeper.
The point stands - we've conceded shitloads of goals.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 14, 2020, 06:15:14 PM
Quote from: TonyD on July 14, 2020, 12:08:31 PM
New manager please whether we stay up or go down.   

Would you have said the same about Graham Taylor? I'm not trying to score points but I'd be interested to know.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: N'ZMAV on July 14, 2020, 06:20:18 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 14, 2020, 06:15:14 PM
Quote from: TonyD on July 14, 2020, 12:08:31 PM
New manager please whether we stay up or go down.   

Would you have said the same about Graham Taylor? I'm not trying to score points but I'd be interested to know.
yeah - he should have got Wolves up :)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy65 on July 14, 2020, 07:07:17 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 14, 2020, 06:15:14 PM
Quote from: TonyD on July 14, 2020, 12:08:31 PM
New manager please whether we stay up or go down.   

Would you have said the same about Graham Taylor? I'm not trying to score points but I'd be interested to know.

I agree with Tony. If by some miracle we manage to stay up it shouldn’t be forgotten the numerous awful displays since December.

GT had a great track record with Watford beforehand to give him time After we just survived in 89. DS has none and that’s why I never wanted him in the first place. I just don’t see it getting any better with him
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Taylor on July 14, 2020, 07:44:00 PM
Rather surprised and pleased that most of the opinions on here seem to be less knee jerk than anticipated. I thought I was going to get pelters for daring to suggest we stick with Smith.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on July 14, 2020, 07:53:44 PM
Pelty does not come on here very much.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Taylor on July 14, 2020, 08:04:41 PM
Ha ha!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on July 14, 2020, 09:00:22 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 14, 2020, 02:33:28 PM
The defence has been poor but that wouldn't have mattered so much if we'd had a semi-reliable goalscorer.

The stats say otherwise though. 65 goals conceded is a disgraceful statistic and the alarm bells were there from very early on this season. It's not even just down to the defence, our midfield were putting up a pitiful lack of resistance until Luiz stepped it up post lockdown. Our wingers or forwards never worked remotely hard enough without the ball either. That is ultimately down to Smith and making us a competent team without the ball should have his first objective. Just think he was totally naive about his 'philosophy' and how suited it was to the top division.

Maybe a better centre forward could have helped pinch a few additional points but 38 goals scored hasn't hurt Sheff Utd.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on July 14, 2020, 09:57:39 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 14, 2020, 06:15:14 PM
Quote from: TonyD on July 14, 2020, 12:08:31 PM
New manager please whether we stay up or go down.   

Would you have said the same about Graham Taylor? I'm not trying to score points but I'd be interested to know.

Hindsight is a great thing
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: charlatan on July 14, 2020, 10:06:29 PM
Quote from: Clampy on July 14, 2020, 04:16:52 PM
I saw that video on Twitter earlier. It was two and a half minutes of him saying that he wasn't bitter whilst spending two and a half minutes sounding bitter.

Was he doing his doesn't really matter face?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sickbeggar on July 14, 2020, 11:01:04 PM
If he keeps us up i wouldn't have a problem with him staying. I know that wouldn't be universally popular but the whole financial/personell shitshow in the preceeding season has hampered him badly imo, and i actually feel a bit of loyalty towards a villa manager, for the first time since before MON. If we go down, well its probably fair enough, although if we end up with 2020's Steve Bruce  i wont be happy.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 14, 2020, 11:43:26 PM
If he keeps us up, I'd be inclined to give him the start of next season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on July 15, 2020, 12:02:39 AM
Whatever happens, I hope we don't give the job to Clive Tyldesley.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on July 15, 2020, 12:06:43 AM
If he keeps us up, it will have been by the skin of our collective teeth, and I'd rather not wilfully put us in that position again. Unknowingly walking into a relegation dogfight is one thing: setting ourselves up for it again is quite another.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 15, 2020, 01:16:10 AM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on July 14, 2020, 11:43:26 PM
If he keeps us up, I'd be inclined to give him the start of next season.

Even if he does and there is someone available legitimately better then we owe to ourselves to not bow to sentiment. Thanks for getting us up and at keeping us up but we have to move on.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 15, 2020, 01:19:54 AM
I'd definitely test him before considering keeping him, even if we do stay up having beaten Everton, Arsenal and West Ham.

Tell him Drinkwater is available on a free and ask if he would like to sign him. If he says no, he gets the start of the season. If he says yes, release the hounds.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 15, 2020, 03:55:04 AM
I'm not convinced by him much as I like him, but sacking him for successfully doing both his objectives would be very harsh.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 15, 2020, 09:24:58 AM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on July 15, 2020, 03:55:04 AM
I'm not convinced by him much as I like him, but sacking him for successfully doing both his objectives would be very harsh.

If you believe what Purslow said at the start of the season, his objective wasn't just to stay up by the skin of his teeth though.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Big Ming on July 15, 2020, 09:46:03 AM
It's only grapevine stuff, but I was told yesterday that Dean Smith will be staying whatever the outcome and that he will be given full control of transfers going forward.

Don't shoot the messenger.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: in exile on July 15, 2020, 09:55:48 AM
Does that mean no more Susso and the like?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mcgrath_85 on July 15, 2020, 09:56:36 AM
He has to go regardless in my opinion. He’s proved to be shockingly inept and let’s face it, the odds on us surviving are slim.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Big Ming on July 15, 2020, 10:11:18 AM
Quote from: in exile on July 15, 2020, 09:55:48 AM
Does that mean no more Susso and the like?
If it's correct.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sickbeggar on July 15, 2020, 10:28:11 AM
Quote from: Risso on July 15, 2020, 09:24:58 AM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on July 15, 2020, 03:55:04 AM
I'm not convinced by him much as I like him, but sacking him for successfully doing both his objectives would be very harsh.

If you believe what Purslow said at the start of the season, his objective wasn't just to stay up by the skin of his teeth though.

Surely that's more an arguement for sacking Purslow? I mean lets be realistic. We finished 18 points behind the team currently bottom of the pile of the premiership. Lost half our squad for various reasons in the summer. Yes he had money, but buying proven premierships players was never an option because they wouldn't come frankly. So if the board were expecting a top half finish i would suggest their inexperience in football was showing I  doubt Sheffield United's board planned for a top half finish.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on July 15, 2020, 10:53:22 AM
Hasn’t vinnie said they’re going no matter what happens?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on July 15, 2020, 10:54:55 AM
So Sheffield achieved the impossible.  Isn’t that just what our owners wanted as well?  I think they call it ambition.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Allan C on July 15, 2020, 11:10:56 AM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on July 15, 2020, 01:16:10 AM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on July 14, 2020, 11:43:26 PM
If he keeps us up, I'd be inclined to give him the start of next season.

Even if he does and there is someone available legitimately better then we owe to ourselves to not bow to sentiment. Thanks for getting us up and at keeping us up but we have to move on.
I agree totally with this. There’s no place for sentimentality or even loyalty in the modern game.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on July 15, 2020, 11:28:56 AM
Quote from: Risso on July 15, 2020, 09:24:58 AM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on July 15, 2020, 03:55:04 AM
I'm not convinced by him much as I like him, but sacking him for successfully doing both his objectives would be very harsh.

If you believe what Purslow said at the start of the season, his objective wasn't just to stay up by the skin of his teeth though.

True. What an inspiring statement of intent that would have been.

"We're aiming to just stay up by the skin of our teeth this season everyone".

Of course our aim must have been to win it (also knowing we were extremely unlikely to achieve it).
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sickbeggar on July 15, 2020, 11:40:47 AM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on July 15, 2020, 10:54:55 AM
So Sheffield achieved the impossible.  Isn’t that just what our owners wanted as well?  I think they call it ambition.

Don't think it's much to do with ambition, more about being realistic. If the Sheffield United board sat there at the start of the season and said "well we've just come up after finishing 2nd in the Championship, so a finish just below the European places but above Arsenal and Tottenham will do for this year Chris", then i imagine he's been expecting the sack ever since.

I suspect they probably said 3 words to him. Keep us up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 15, 2020, 11:59:53 AM
The way Purslow was talking and comparing us to Norwich, there’s no way he was expecting us to go down. And outside the top 6 or 7, it’s all pretty much of a muchness. Our main weakness has been the utter shitness of the defence.  With better coaching we could easily be 7 or 8 points better off.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on July 15, 2020, 12:09:00 PM
our defensive woes stem from the fact that our defense is awful. Better players might have helped win us more points.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 15, 2020, 12:21:16 PM
I don’t think our defence was awful earlier in the season. We were in most games to the very end and had the manager figured out how to help his defenders by making smarter tactical decisions, astute subs, shoring up the midfield when required, then as Risso suggests we’d easily be a good number of points better off and sat safely in mid table. The defence instead over time was exposed and their confidence destroyed. Of course they’ve made mistakes but it hasn’t been helped through terrible management and coaching.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 15, 2020, 12:35:24 PM
Quote from: Allan C on July 15, 2020, 11:10:56 AM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on July 15, 2020, 01:16:10 AM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on July 14, 2020, 11:43:26 PM
If he keeps us up, I'd be inclined to give him the start of next season.

Even if he does and there is someone available legitimately better then we owe to ourselves to not bow to sentiment. Thanks for getting us up and at keeping us up but we have to move on.
I agree totally with this. There’s no place for sentimentality or even loyalty in the modern game.

And how many times does that happen?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: itbrvilla on July 15, 2020, 12:39:05 PM
Quote from: mr underhill on July 15, 2020, 12:09:00 PM
our defensive woes stem from the fact that our defense is awful. Better players might have helped win us more points.
We don't score enough either.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on July 15, 2020, 12:43:37 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on July 15, 2020, 12:21:16 PM
I don’t think our defence was awful earlier in the season. We were in most games to the very end and had the manager figured out how to help his defenders by making smarter tactical decisions, astute subs, shoring up the midfield when required, then as Risso suggests we’d easily be a good number of points better off and sat safely in mid table. The defence instead over time was exposed and their confidence destroyed. Of course they’ve made mistakes but it hasn’t been helped through terrible management and coaching.

You also have to consider the number of chances for them to make key mistakes. We've allowed teams to put us under too much pressure which has meant the chances for a defender/keeper to make a mistake are much higher and as a result make them much more likely. I don't think it necessarily makes them bad players, it just means we need to find ways to break pressure. Since the restart we've been a little bit better at it but there's still improvements to make and that's where an attacker with incredible pace makes a big difference as any forward ball can become dangerous.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on July 15, 2020, 12:52:08 PM
Quote from: paul_e on July 15, 2020, 12:43:37 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on July 15, 2020, 12:21:16 PM
I don’t think our defence was awful earlier in the season. We were in most games to the very end and had the manager figured out how to help his defenders by making smarter tactical decisions, astute subs, shoring up the midfield when required, then as Risso suggests we’d easily be a good number of points better off and sat safely in mid table. The defence instead over time was exposed and their confidence destroyed. Of course they’ve made mistakes but it hasn’t been helped through terrible management and coaching.

You also have to consider the number of chances for them to make key mistakes. We've allowed teams to put us under too much pressure which has meant the chances for a defender/keeper to make a mistake are much higher and as a result make them much more likely. I don't think it necessarily makes them bad players, it just means we need to find ways to break pressure. Since the restart we've been a little bit better at it but there's still improvements to make and that's where an attacker with incredible pace makes a big difference as any forward ball can become dangerous.

He may have been unimaginative and stuck in 70's dogma, but Martin O'Neill certainly understood that last line very well.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on July 15, 2020, 12:56:17 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on July 15, 2020, 12:21:16 PM
I don’t think our defence was awful earlier in the season. We were in most games to the very end and had the manager figured out how to help his defenders by making smarter tactical decisions, astute subs, shoring up the midfield when required, then as Risso suggests we’d easily be a good number of points better off and sat safely in mid table. The defence instead over time was exposed and their confidence destroyed. Of course they’ve made mistakes but it hasn’t been helped through terrible management and coaching.
It's amusing how one of the big critisisms of Bruce was making negative substitutions when we were winning that let teams back in to games.  Smith's original philosophy of attack is the best form of defence was lauded as a breath of fresh air. 

Of course Smith has made some errors and we've let points slip.  But it's not always as simple as chuck a few more defensive players on and take the points, surely we learn't that from the Bruce years?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 15, 2020, 01:06:57 PM
It’s our defending, not necessarily our defenders. We were conceding more chances than anyone, that is about the way the team is set up defensively.

The recent change is that our full backs are not getting forward and the role and form of Luiz.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sickbeggar on July 15, 2020, 01:07:21 PM
The Bruce revisionism is baffling. Newcastle are currently exactly where they finished under the last guy despite Mr. Potato Head spending 40million on a striker who makes Samatta look prolific.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 15, 2020, 01:14:23 PM
Quote from: sickbeggar on July 15, 2020, 01:07:21 PM
The Bruce revisionism is baffling. Newcastle are currently exactly they finished under the last guy despite Mr. Potato Head spending 40million on a striker who makes Samatta look prolific.
Bruces subs were not nearly criticised as much as Smiths because he was not as useless as Smith at making them.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ROBBO on July 15, 2020, 01:26:46 PM
I don't buy the terrible defence argument, any defence would crumble when you have such a weak midfield and forward line, when was the last time before the last game when we dominated possesion, it's all very well to look at how many goals we've conceeded but overlook how few we've scored.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on July 15, 2020, 01:27:36 PM
For all his faults Bruce improved the game management side.  After a couple of goes of being scared  I never thought we would let a lead slip in the last few minutes as we had become so accustomed Over the years. 

The flip side of it was certain games I never ever was confident we would get back into a game we had gone one down in.  The play off final for example.  The crapping ourselves in the last twenty minutes has returned with a vengeance.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sickbeggar on July 15, 2020, 01:28:09 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on July 15, 2020, 01:14:23 PM
Quote from: sickbeggar on July 15, 2020, 01:07:21 PM
The Bruce revisionism is baffling. Newcastle are currently exactly they finished under the last guy despite Mr. Potato Head spending 40million on a striker who makes Samatta look prolific.
Bruces subs were not nearly criticised as much as Smiths because he was not as useless as Smith at making them.


I'm not about to argue Bruce was all bad and smith is all good. It's just a general reminder of how much an idiot Bruce can be. I mean could you imagine if we'd come up that season under Bruce and he then presents Joe Linton as Abraham's  40m replacement? i mean at least Wesley has some sort of goalscoring record that hints at potential. Linton couldn't even get to double figures in the Austrian league. God knows what the Newcastle fans make of it
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on July 15, 2020, 01:32:33 PM
Our defending as a team is crap but this is NOT just about the defenders.  We don't hold the ball up in attack, we don't chase the ball down and defend from the front.  We have a lack of physicality in midfield and if anyone needs further evidence of what that means, just look at the Chelsea and Man United goals against us.  Also, our defenders lack concentration and make stupid individual mistakes, oh, and the keepers of late, have been dire.  The spine of the side is in need of addressing.  Mings needs a proper partner, we need a defensive midfielder in front of the back four, we need harder working wingers and a centre forward who works a damn sight harder than Samatta. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AV82EC on July 15, 2020, 01:34:16 PM
Quote from: Newby on July 15, 2020, 01:32:33 PM
Our defending as a team is crap but this is NOT just about the defenders.  We don't hold the ball up in attack, we don't chase the ball down and defend from the front.  We have a lack of physicality in midfield and if anyone needs further evidence of what that means, just look at the Chelsea and Man United goals against us.  Also, our defenders lack concentration and make stupid individual mistakes, oh, and the keepers of late, have been dire.  The spine of the side is in need of addressing.  Mings needs a proper partner, we need a defensive midfielder in front of the back four, we need harder working wingers and a centre forward who works a damn sight harder than Samatta.

But apart from that......
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on July 15, 2020, 01:44:27 PM
Quote from: AV82EC on July 15, 2020, 01:34:16 PM
Quote from: Newby on July 15, 2020, 01:32:33 PM
Our defending as a team is crap but this is NOT just about the defenders.  We don't hold the ball up in attack, we don't chase the ball down and defend from the front.  We have a lack of physicality in midfield and if anyone needs further evidence of what that means, just look at the Chelsea and Man United goals against us.  Also, our defenders lack concentration and make stupid individual mistakes, oh, and the keepers of late, have been dire.  The spine of the side is in need of addressing.  Mings needs a proper partner, we need a defensive midfielder in front of the back four, we need harder working wingers and a centre forward who works a damn sight harder than Samatta.

But apart from that......

Lol.  People are blaming defenders for us being poor, it is a much eider issue and has not been addressed at all.  The January window was that chance and we buggered it up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 15, 2020, 01:46:53 PM
Quote from: sickbeggar on July 15, 2020, 01:28:09 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on July 15, 2020, 01:14:23 PM
Quote from: sickbeggar on July 15, 2020, 01:07:21 PM
The Bruce revisionism is baffling. Newcastle are currently exactly they finished under the last guy despite Mr. Potato Head spending 40million on a striker who makes Samatta look prolific.
Bruces subs were not nearly criticised as much as Smiths because he was not as useless as Smith at making them.


I'm not about to argue Bruce was all bad and smith is all good. It's just a general reminder of how much an idiot Bruce can be. I mean could you imagine if we'd come up that season under Bruce and he then presents Joe Linton as Abraham's  40m replacement? i mean at least Wesley has some sort of goalscoring record that hints at potential. Linton couldn't even get to double figures in the Austrian league. God knows what the Newcastle fans make of it

You know he's not called Joe Linton, right?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on July 15, 2020, 01:50:31 PM
It's not about working harder, the idea that if the team were a bit fit or tried a bit more we'd be fine is just lazy. It's about being smarter. Lots on here like the take the piss over Smith setting traps but that's exactly what we need to be better at. We need to get teams playing where we want them to so we can turn the ball over on our terms. All of our attacking players except Grealish have struggled because they run themselves into the ground in silly areas of the pitch where we see no benefit.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Astonite on July 15, 2020, 01:50:59 PM
Totally agree there have been many occasions where the opposition have gone from ball in keepers hands to bearing down on our back four in 3 or 4 simple passes.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: rob_bridge on July 15, 2020, 01:51:24 PM
A lot has happened this year and my memory is a bit fuzzy.

We reverted to a back 3/5 after Christmas, why did we change back to a 4
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 15, 2020, 01:53:29 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on July 15, 2020, 01:46:53 PM
Quote from: sickbeggar on July 15, 2020, 01:28:09 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on July 15, 2020, 01:14:23 PM
Quote from: sickbeggar on July 15, 2020, 01:07:21 PM
The Bruce revisionism is baffling. Newcastle are currently exactly they finished under the last guy despite Mr. Potato Head spending 40million on a striker who makes Samatta look prolific.
Bruces subs were not nearly criticised as much as Smiths because he was not as useless as Smith at making them.


I'm not about to argue Bruce was all bad and smith is all good. It's just a general reminder of how much an idiot Bruce can be. I mean could you imagine if we'd come up that season under Bruce and he then presents Joe Linton as Abraham's  40m replacement? i mean at least Wesley has some sort of goalscoring record that hints at potential. Linton couldn't even get to double figures in the Austrian league. God knows what the Newcastle fans make of it

You know he's not called Joe Linton, right?

Sounds like a bloke who works nights down at the docks and eats two meat pies for breakfast
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on July 15, 2020, 01:55:16 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on July 15, 2020, 01:46:53 PM
Quote from: sickbeggar on July 15, 2020, 01:28:09 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on July 15, 2020, 01:14:23 PM
Quote from: sickbeggar on July 15, 2020, 01:07:21 PM
The Bruce revisionism is baffling. Newcastle are currently exactly they finished under the last guy despite Mr. Potato Head spending 40million on a striker who makes Samatta look prolific.
Bruces subs were not nearly criticised as much as Smiths because he was not as useless as Smith at making them.


I'm not about to argue Bruce was all bad and smith is all good. It's just a general reminder of how much an idiot Bruce can be. I mean could you imagine if we'd come up that season under Bruce and he then presents Joe Linton as Abraham's  40m replacement? i mean at least Wesley has some sort of goalscoring record that hints at potential. Linton couldn't even get to double figures in the Austrian league. God knows what the Newcastle fans make of it

You know he's not called Joe Linton, right?

It’s not Ivor’s son then?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on July 15, 2020, 01:56:13 PM
Quote from: paul_e on July 15, 2020, 01:50:31 PM
It's not about working harder, the idea that if the team were a bit fit or tried a bit more we'd be fine is just lazy. It's about being smarter. Lots on here like the take the piss over Smith setting traps but that's exactly what we need to be better at. We need to get teams playing where we want them to so we can turn the ball over on our terms. All of our attacking players except Grealish have struggled because they run themselves into the ground in silly areas of the pitch where we see no benefit.

You're right about being smarter, but I think this comes hand in hand with working harder. I think it's pretty much the same thing.We do not work hard enough to retain possession.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on July 15, 2020, 01:56:29 PM
Quote from: sickbeggar on July 15, 2020, 01:07:21 PM
The Bruce revisionism is baffling. Newcastle are currently exactly where they finished under the last guy despite Mr. Potato Head spending 40million on a striker who makes Samatta look prolific.
What Bruce revisionism?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on July 15, 2020, 01:56:59 PM
Plays like him too.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sickbeggar on July 15, 2020, 02:02:38 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on July 15, 2020, 01:46:53 PM
Quote from: sickbeggar on July 15, 2020, 01:28:09 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on July 15, 2020, 01:14:23 PM
Quote from: sickbeggar on July 15, 2020, 01:07:21 PM
The Bruce revisionism is baffling. Newcastle are currently exactly they finished under the last guy despite Mr. Potato Head spending 40million on a striker who makes Samatta look prolific.
Bruces subs were not nearly criticised as much as Smiths because he was not as useless as Smith at making them.


I'm not about to argue Bruce was all bad and smith is all good. It's just a general reminder of how much an idiot Bruce can be. I mean could you imagine if we'd come up that season under Bruce and he then presents Joe Linton as Abraham's  40m replacement? i mean at least Wesley has some sort of goalscoring record that hints at potential. Linton couldn't even get to double figures in the Austrian league. God knows what the Newcastle fans make of it

You know he's not called Joe Linton, right?

heh.  admittedly not for a long time the way people were pronouncing his name. Besides it suits him as a archetypal Bruce signing. Joe linton, welsh international, scored 23 goals for Bradford before Bruce plucked him from obscurity for 12m to lead his championship promotion challenge
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sickbeggar on July 15, 2020, 02:05:39 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on July 15, 2020, 01:56:29 PM
Quote from: sickbeggar on July 15, 2020, 01:07:21 PM
The Bruce revisionism is baffling. Newcastle are currently exactly where they finished under the last guy despite Mr. Potato Head spending 40million on a striker who makes Samatta look prolific.
What Bruce revisionism?


Didn't mean you. Seen some comments on here along the lines of "Bruce would have kept us up"
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on July 15, 2020, 02:19:44 PM
Quote from: sickbeggar on July 15, 2020, 02:05:39 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on July 15, 2020, 01:56:29 PM
Quote from: sickbeggar on July 15, 2020, 01:07:21 PM
The Bruce revisionism is baffling. Newcastle are currently exactly where they finished under the last guy despite Mr. Potato Head spending 40million on a striker who makes Samatta look prolific.
What Bruce revisionism?


Didn't mean you. Seen some comments on here along the lines of "Bruce would have kept us up"
We'll never know.  What I would say is he's done better at Newcastle than I expepected him to.  It's amusing hearing the Geordies phoning in to chat shows moaning about him, with his pundit mates defending him as usual. 

Either way, I'm glad he's not our manager at the moment.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: itbrvilla on July 15, 2020, 02:24:58 PM
Quote from: Astonite on July 15, 2020, 01:50:59 PM
Totally agree there have been many occasions where the opposition have gone from ball in keepers hands to bearing down on our back four in 3 or 4 simple passes.
Also we've had ball in or near to their goal and had it back to our keeper in 3 or 4 passes.  It's far too easy for almost every opposition team.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on July 15, 2020, 03:47:35 PM
Quote from: sickbeggar on July 15, 2020, 02:05:39 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on July 15, 2020, 01:56:29 PM
Quote from: sickbeggar on July 15, 2020, 01:07:21 PM
The Bruce revisionism is baffling. Newcastle are currently exactly where they finished under the last guy despite Mr. Potato Head spending 40million on a striker who makes Samatta look prolific.
What Bruce revisionism?


Didn't mean you. Seen some comments on here along the lines of "Bruce would have kept us up"

He may have done. We had his pragmatism when we needed to let off the schackles, but this year his approach may have suited us better.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Allan C on July 15, 2020, 03:56:09 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 15, 2020, 12:35:24 PM
Quote from: Allan C on July 15, 2020, 11:10:56 AM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on July 15, 2020, 01:16:10 AM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on July 14, 2020, 11:43:26 PM
If he keeps us up, I'd be inclined to give him the start of next season.

Even if he does and there is someone available legitimately better then we owe to ourselves to not bow to sentiment. Thanks for getting us up and at keeping us up but we have to move on.
I agree totally with this. There’s no place for sentimentality or even loyalty in the modern game.

And how many times does that happen?
I think it’s got to happen this time if we stay up and there’s a coach available who is appreciably better than the one we have. Surely that’s progression??
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 15, 2020, 04:18:13 PM
Quote from: Allan C on July 15, 2020, 03:56:09 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 15, 2020, 12:35:24 PM
Quote from: Allan C on July 15, 2020, 11:10:56 AM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on July 15, 2020, 01:16:10 AM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on July 14, 2020, 11:43:26 PM
If he keeps us up, I'd be inclined to give him the start of next season.

Even if he does and there is someone available legitimately better then we owe to ourselves to not bow to sentiment. Thanks for getting us up and at keeping us up but we have to move on.
I agree totally with this. There’s no place for sentimentality or even loyalty in the modern game.

And how many times does that happen?
I think it’s got to happen this time if we stay up and there’s a coach available who is appreciably better than the one we have. Surely that’s progression??

A lot of things would be progression but I say again. How many times does a club get rid of a manager who's doing alright because a better one becomes available and what guarantee does it bring?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nii Lamptey on July 15, 2020, 04:21:11 PM
Caught a bit of his Everton press conference.

Getting his excuses in early - Highlighting the cost of some of Everton's players to ours, Keane for one. It's not great, making our players feel like Everton are the better/stronger team before the bus has even pulled up at Goodison?! The sign of a manager who knows his days are numbered, and rightly so.

It was pure luck that we stumbled on a winning formation against Palace - Would we have had that same balance/attacking intent from the right if Konsa had been playing at RB as Smith had intended. I very much doubt it.

Hope we stay up, but regardless of which way it goes, he needs to be potted.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on July 15, 2020, 04:22:24 PM
What are the positives he's brought to the season?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on July 15, 2020, 04:39:53 PM
Quote from: Nii Lamptey on July 15, 2020, 04:21:11 PM
Caught a bit of his Everton press conference.

Getting his excuses in early - Highlighting the cost of some of Everton's players to ours, Keane for one. It's not great, making our players feel like Everton are the better/stronger team before the bus has even pulled up at Goodison?! The sign of a manager who knows his days are numbered, and rightly so.

It was pure luck that we stumbled on a winning formation against Palace - Would we have had that same balance/attacking intent from the right if Konsa had been playing at RB as Smith had intended. I very much doubt it.

Hope we stay up, but regardless of which way it goes, he needs to be potted.

If you can't give any praise when we win a game, then what's the point?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Axl Rose on July 15, 2020, 04:41:33 PM
Quote from: aj2k77 on July 15, 2020, 04:22:24 PM
What are the positives he's brought to the season?

None. He's massively out of his depth.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on July 15, 2020, 05:13:30 PM
Quote from: aj2k77 on July 15, 2020, 04:22:24 PM
What are the positives he's brought to the season?

That we've been to a Cup Final?
That we're very much still in it with 3 games to go.
That we've played well against a number of the better clubs (albeit without the results to show for it).
That he's got Mings playing well enough to be selected for England.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on July 15, 2020, 05:15:01 PM
Quote from: Nii Lamptey on July 15, 2020, 04:21:11 PM
Caught a bit of his Everton press conference.

Getting his excuses in early - Highlighting the cost of some of Everton's players to ours, Keane for one. It's not great, making our players feel like Everton are the better/stronger team before the bus has even pulled up at Goodison?! The sign of a manager who knows his days are numbered, and rightly so.

It was pure luck that we stumbled on a winning formation against Palace - Would we have had that same balance/attacking intent from the right if Konsa had been playing at RB as Smith had intended. I very much doubt it.

Hope we stay up, but regardless of which way it goes, he needs to be potted.

I like Dean on a personal level, at least from what I know of him. He seems like a nice guy and he's "one of us" which is good, not that it qualifies anyone for the job.

However I'm almost as frustrated by the 'face' he puts on things as I am his abject tactics and the resulting struggles that we've experienced all season long.

When he speaks to the press he looks and sounds like a man who is uncomfortable in his own shoes, isn't really sure what to say, and for me if you can't talk to the talk or walk the walk then you're probably ill-suited to management in general. I suppose the counterpoint is to underline that charisma is not a requirement of the job, but it's a massive problem in any industry if a manager cannot stand in front of a room of people with varying perspectives and personalities and know how to manage the expectations and attitudes in the room. It goes a long way to explaining the lack of response he gets from his own team after half-time pep talks in games where they've struggled through the opening 45.

I've bolded what NL has said above as I think it's important -- a good motivator and manager knows how to approach the PR side of the job and effect it can have on the team's mentality before a game. He has to come out swinging and at least pretend that he believes in the survival effort, otherwise frankly he shouldn't be there. And apart from anything else it's nonsense - Keane cost more or less the same as Mings, so....
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Allan C on July 15, 2020, 06:27:54 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 15, 2020, 04:18:13 PM
Quote from: Allan C on July 15, 2020, 03:56:09 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 15, 2020, 12:35:24 PM
Quote from: Allan C on July 15, 2020, 11:10:56 AM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on July 15, 2020, 01:16:10 AM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on July 14, 2020, 11:43:26 PM
If he keeps us up, I'd be inclined to give him the start of next season.

Even if he does and there is someone available legitimately better then we owe to ourselves to not bow to sentiment. Thanks for getting us up and at keeping us up but we have to move on.
I agree totally with this. There’s no place for sentimentality or even loyalty in the modern game.

And how many times does that happen?
I think it’s got to happen this time if we stay up and there’s a coach available who is appreciably better than the one we have. Surely that’s progression??

A lot of things would be progression but I say again. How many times does a club get rid of a manager who's doing alright because a better one becomes available and what guarantee does it bring?
Nigel Adkins and Mauricio Pochettino at Southampton maybe? There is of course no guarantee of success but that’s the game. With managers, players, owners as we know only too well. The alternative is to stand still and eventually go backwards which we seem to do very well unfortunately
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 15, 2020, 06:54:26 PM
So that's once it's worked, but it's something we have to do.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 15, 2020, 06:56:32 PM
It wasn't even seen as much of an upgrade at the time, if an upgrade at all.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Allan C on July 15, 2020, 07:52:24 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 15, 2020, 06:54:26 PM
So that's once it's worked, but it's something we have to do.
I so wanted this to work with Smith, not because he’s a Villa fan and a “nice bloke” but because his style of play was a vast improvement on what went before. That hasn’t continued in the Premier League sadly but if he showed any sign of an improvement I would love him to stay. I can’t see it though. Can you see where he’s improved?? What are your reasons for retaining him in the Premier League??
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 15, 2020, 07:59:31 PM
Quote from: Allan C on July 15, 2020, 07:52:24 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 15, 2020, 06:54:26 PM
So that's once it's worked, but it's something we have to do.
I so wanted this to work with Smith, not because he’s a Villa fan and a “nice bloke” but because his style of play was a vast improvement on what went before. That hasn’t continued in the Premier League sadly but if he showed any sign of an improvement I would love him to stay. I can’t see it though. Can you see where he’s improved?? What are your reasons for retaining him in the Premier League??

Because if we stay up he'll have done everything asked of him in both of his seasons, with a cup final appearance as a bonus. More importantly, we have to get out of the 'rip it up and start again' mentality of the past decade.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on July 15, 2020, 08:22:57 PM
I agree Dave.  I don't want to see Dean hung out to dry but if he is to stay, he must be allowed to be his own man.  If he fails I want a degree of transparency we have not seen at the club for a long time that allows us, the ones who do all the miles and all the pain, to see where praise is merited and failures held to account.  I can live with second rate managers, God knows we have had enough of them, what I cannot abide is the smoke and mirrors of management and coaching by committee.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ozzjim on July 15, 2020, 08:44:43 PM
Re being his own man, I would agree, and he's capable of building a side over time but needs to be backed to put a structure in line the one he had at Brentford. Watching them now with much of the side Smith out together shows how well they have assembled the structure of the club. We lack that at the moment.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 15, 2020, 09:17:57 PM
Quote from: ozzjim on July 15, 2020, 08:44:43 PM
Re being his own man, I would agree, and he's capable of building a side over time but needs to be backed to put a structure in line the one he had at Brentford. Watching them now with much of the side Smith out together shows how well they have assembled the structure of the club. We lack that at the moment.

It surely can't be beyond our means to just poach the people who worked above/behind him at Brentford. It's clearly a good way of working. I'm just a short bike ride away if the club wants to send me the relevant powerpoint and a signed blank cheque.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on July 15, 2020, 09:53:19 PM
But you don't  own a bike.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 15, 2020, 09:56:25 PM
Quote from: brian green on July 15, 2020, 09:53:19 PM
But you don't  own a bike.

Oh Brian, things have changed since the disease came to town. I have two wheels and a yearning to succeed.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 15, 2020, 09:59:10 PM
Do you have a need, a need for speed?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 15, 2020, 10:03:37 PM
Very much so. It's old school, but at £5 a gram I'm game.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 15, 2020, 10:04:50 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on July 15, 2020, 09:59:10 PM
Do you have a need, a need for speed?
More of a Charlie sorta guy I reckon.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on July 15, 2020, 10:06:23 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on July 15, 2020, 10:03:37 PM
Very much so. It's old school, but at £5 a gram I'm game.

There is some liquorice flavoured LSD you might be interested in? You see allsorts.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 15, 2020, 10:07:05 PM
Quote from: Ads on July 15, 2020, 10:06:23 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on July 15, 2020, 10:03:37 PM
Very much so. It's old school, but at £5 a gram I'm game.

There is some liquorice flavoured LSD you might be interested in? You see allsorts.

Kill all hippies.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy65 on July 15, 2020, 10:23:20 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 15, 2020, 07:59:31 PM
Quote from: Allan C on July 15, 2020, 07:52:24 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 15, 2020, 06:54:26 PM
So that's once it's worked, but it's something we have to do.
I so wanted this to work with Smith, not because he’s a Villa fan and a “nice bloke” but because his style of play was a vast improvement on what went before. That hasn’t continued in the Premier League sadly but if he showed any sign of an improvement I would love him to stay. I can’t see it though. Can you see where he’s improved?? What are your reasons for retaining him in the Premier League??

Because if we stay up he'll have done everything asked of him in both of his seasons, with a cup final appearance as a bonus. More importantly, we have to get out of the 'rip it up and start again' mentality of the past decade.

If we stay up, we want to move onto the next stage, which is well beyond His capabilities. Stay up this season and we will be struggling again next season With DS in charge
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 15, 2020, 10:27:02 PM
Quote from: Rudy65 on July 15, 2020, 10:23:20 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 15, 2020, 07:59:31 PM
Quote from: Allan C on July 15, 2020, 07:52:24 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 15, 2020, 06:54:26 PM
So that's once it's worked, but it's something we have to do.
I so wanted this to work with Smith, not because he’s a Villa fan and a “nice bloke” but because his style of play was a vast improvement on what went before. That hasn’t continued in the Premier League sadly but if he showed any sign of an improvement I would love him to stay. I can’t see it though. Can you see where he’s improved?? What are your reasons for retaining him in the Premier League??

Because if we stay up he'll have done everything asked of him in both of his seasons, with a cup final appearance as a bonus. More importantly, we have to get out of the 'rip it up and start again' mentality of the past decade.

If we stay up, we want to move onto the next stage, which is well beyond His capabilities. Stay up this season and we will be struggling again next season With DS in charge

You have no way of knowing that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: rougegorge on July 15, 2020, 10:31:10 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on July 15, 2020, 09:17:57 PM
Quote from: ozzjim on July 15, 2020, 08:44:43 PM
Re being his own man, I would agree, and he's capable of building a side over time but needs to be backed to put a structure in line the one he had at Brentford. Watching them now with much of the side Smith out together shows how well they have assembled the structure of the club. We lack that at the moment.

It surely can't be beyond our means to just poach the people who worked above/behind him at Brentford. It's clearly a good way of working. I'm just a short bike ride away if the club wants to send me the relevant powerpoint and a signed blank cheque.

I agree about getting a decent structure throughout the club, although I am less convinced about the lasting impact of Smith. Well over half the core of Brentford's regular team signed since Smith left: Mbeumo, Jansson, Pinnock, Raya, Norgaard, Jensen. Also,  Da Silva only played after Smith left, so he can't really take too much credit for their current team.

Brentford may not end up getting promoted,  but either Thomas Frank has thus far done better than Smith or their recruitment has gone up a notch since he left.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy65 on July 15, 2020, 10:33:32 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 15, 2020, 10:27:02 PM
Quote from: Rudy65 on July 15, 2020, 10:23:20 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 15, 2020, 07:59:31 PM
Quote from: Allan C on July 15, 2020, 07:52:24 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 15, 2020, 06:54:26 PM
So that's once it's worked, but it's something we have to do.
I so wanted this to work with Smith, not because he’s a Villa fan and a “nice bloke” but because his style of play was a vast improvement on what went before. That hasn’t continued in the Premier League sadly but if he showed any sign of an improvement I would love him to stay. I can’t see it though. Can you see where he’s improved?? What are your reasons for retaining him in the Premier League??

Because if we stay up he'll have done everything asked of him in both of his seasons, with a cup final appearance as a bonus. More importantly, we have to get out of the 'rip it up and start again' mentality of the past decade.

If we stay up, we want to move onto the next stage, which is well beyond His capabilities. Stay up this season and we will be struggling again next season With DS in charge

You have no way of knowing that.

Of course I don’t know. However I’ve seen enough turgid and clueless displays this season to know DS isn’t the solution. It’s been an awful season  Where has been the progress in any section of the team. Yes we got to a cup final beating Liverpool and Wolves reserves along the way and were outplayed at Wembley  If we do stay up we need to aim higher  Be ruthless and get a better manager from a position of relative strength. Don’t settle for second best
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy65 on July 15, 2020, 10:35:40 PM
Quote from: rougegorge on July 15, 2020, 10:31:10 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on July 15, 2020, 09:17:57 PM
Quote from: ozzjim on July 15, 2020, 08:44:43 PM
Re being his own man, I would agree, and he's capable of building a side over time but needs to be backed to put a structure in line the one he had at Brentford. Watching them now with much of the side Smith out together shows how well they have assembled the structure of the club. We lack that at the moment.

It surely can't be beyond our means to just poach the people who worked above/behind him at Brentford. It's clearly a good way of working. I'm just a short bike ride away if the club wants to send me the relevant powerpoint and a signed blank cheque.

I agree about getting a decent structure throughout the club, although I am less convinced about the lasting impact of Smith. Well over half the core of Brentford's regular team signed since Smith left: Mbeumo, Jansson, Pinnock, Raya, Norgaard, Jensen. Also,  Da Silva only played after Smith left, so he can't really take too much credit for their current team.

Brentford may not end up getting promoted,  but either Thomas Frank has thus far done better than Smith or their recruitment has gone up a notch since he left.

Exactly.  Brentford bear no Resemblance to the DS team of 2 years ago. They are a much better team now
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 15, 2020, 10:36:04 PM
Because it's that easy, which is why everyone does it. Except they don't.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy65 on July 15, 2020, 10:41:47 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 15, 2020, 10:36:04 PM
Because it's that easy, which is why everyone does it. Except they don't.

No idea what you mean

Under DS Brentford were a middling champs team who never looked like getting to the play offs or getting relegated. They just seemed to play well against us. DS Leaves and within 2 years they are certainly in the play offs and may go up automatically. Pray they do at the expense of the baggies
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 15, 2020, 10:44:56 PM
Quote from: Rudy65 on July 15, 2020, 10:23:20 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 15, 2020, 07:59:31 PM
Quote from: Allan C on July 15, 2020, 07:52:24 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 15, 2020, 06:54:26 PM
So that's once it's worked, but it's something we have to do.
I so wanted this to work with Smith, not because he’s a Villa fan and a “nice bloke” but because his style of play was a vast improvement on what went before. That hasn’t continued in the Premier League sadly but if he showed any sign of an improvement I would love him to stay. I can’t see it though. Can you see where he’s improved?? What are your reasons for retaining him in the Premier League??

Because if we stay up he'll have done everything asked of him in both of his seasons, with a cup final appearance as a bonus. More importantly, we have to get out of the 'rip it up and start again' mentality of the past decade.

If we stay up, we want to move onto the next stage, which is well beyond His capabilities. Stay up this season and we will be struggling again next season With DS in charge

I think we ought to get them whether Smith's here or not.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 15, 2020, 10:47:04 PM
Quote from: Rudy65 on July 15, 2020, 10:41:47 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 15, 2020, 10:36:04 PM
Because it's that easy, which is why everyone does it. Except they don't.

No idea what you mean

Under DS Brentford were a middling champs team who never looked like getting to the play offs or getting relegated. They just seemed to play well against us. DS Leaves and within 2 years they are certainly in the play offs and may go up automatically. Pray they do at the expense of the baggies

The one above that. Clubs who get rid of a manager who's done a decent job on the basis that there's a better one around somewhere.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ozzjim on July 15, 2020, 11:19:21 PM
Thomas Frank was his assistant there with an eye on taking the job for continuity when he went though. And the recruitment at Brentford was never the job of the manager and still isn't, they have a system and metrics to choose their targets.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 15, 2020, 11:51:07 PM
Quote from: ozzjim on July 15, 2020, 11:19:21 PM
Thomas Frank was his assistant there with an eye on taking the job for continuity when he went though. And the recruitment at Brentford was never the job of the manager and still isn't, they have a system and metrics to choose their targets.

Exactly. I think we've tried to do the same, but in the usual half-arsed way.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on July 16, 2020, 08:33:17 AM
Quote from: ozzjim on July 15, 2020, 11:19:21 PM
Thomas Frank was his assistant there with an eye on taking the job for continuity when he went though. And the recruitment at Brentford was never the job of the manager and still isn't, they have a system and metrics to choose their targets.

Moneyball has worked so much better for other clubs than it ever has for us
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on July 16, 2020, 08:36:40 AM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on July 15, 2020, 10:44:56 PM
Quote from: Rudy65 on July 15, 2020, 10:23:20 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 15, 2020, 07:59:31 PM
Quote from: Allan C on July 15, 2020, 07:52:24 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 15, 2020, 06:54:26 PM
So that's once it's worked, but it's something we have to do.
I so wanted this to work with Smith, not because he’s a Villa fan and a “nice bloke” but because his style of play was a vast improvement on what went before. That hasn’t continued in the Premier League sadly but if he showed any sign of an improvement I would love him to stay. I can’t see it though. Can you see where he’s improved?? What are your reasons for retaining him in the Premier League??

Because if we stay up he'll have done everything asked of him in both of his seasons, with a cup final appearance as a bonus. More importantly, we have to get out of the 'rip it up and start again' mentality of the past decade.

If we stay up, we want to move onto the next stage, which is well beyond His capabilities. Stay up this season and we will be struggling again next season With DS in charge

I think we ought to get them whether Smith's here or not.
Well I would say these things may take time to develop, build the infrastructure and have the right people in place. I really hope it’s not just an experiment in that we ditch if Smith is pushed.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on July 16, 2020, 08:47:57 AM
Does sabremetrics really translate into football?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on July 16, 2020, 09:02:19 AM
let's just buy Brentford and re brand it as  New Aston Villa?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on July 16, 2020, 09:13:10 AM
Quote from: sickbeggar on July 15, 2020, 01:07:21 PM
The Bruce revisionism is baffling. Newcastle are currently exactly where they finished under the last guy despite Mr. Potato Head spending 40million on a striker who makes Samatta look prolific.

Joe Linton was on the way even before Bruce took the reigns I thought? Dreadful player. Bruce has done well there, kept them up with something to spare. A very average squad.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on July 16, 2020, 09:48:35 AM
Quote from: Rudy65 on July 15, 2020, 10:33:32 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 15, 2020, 10:27:02 PM
Quote from: Rudy65 on July 15, 2020, 10:23:20 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 15, 2020, 07:59:31 PM
Quote from: Allan C on July 15, 2020, 07:52:24 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 15, 2020, 06:54:26 PM
So that's once it's worked, but it's something we have to do.
I so wanted this to work with Smith, not because he’s a Villa fan and a “nice bloke” but because his style of play was a vast improvement on what went before. That hasn’t continued in the Premier League sadly but if he showed any sign of an improvement I would love him to stay. I can’t see it though. Can you see where he’s improved?? What are your reasons for retaining him in the Premier League??

Because if we stay up he'll have done everything asked of him in both of his seasons, with a cup final appearance as a bonus. More importantly, we have to get out of the 'rip it up and start again' mentality of the past decade.

If we stay up, we want to move onto the next stage, which is well beyond His capabilities. Stay up this season and we will be struggling again next season With DS in charge

You have no way of knowing that.

Of course I don’t know. However I’ve seen enough turgid and clueless displays this season to know DS isn’t the solution. It’s been an awful season  Where has been the progress in any section of the team. Yes we got to a cup final beating Liverpool and Wolves reserves along the way and were outplayed at Wembley  If we do stay up we need to aim higher  Be ruthless and get a better manager from a position of relative strength. Don’t settle for second best
I wouldn't say we were outplayed at Wembley though. We played well that day and could of easily won. Couple of dodgy decisions went against us and we hit the post late on.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on July 16, 2020, 09:58:39 AM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on July 16, 2020, 08:33:17 AM
Quote from: ozzjim on July 15, 2020, 11:19:21 PM
Thomas Frank was his assistant there with an eye on taking the job for continuity when he went though. And the recruitment at Brentford was never the job of the manager and still isn't, they have a system and metrics to choose their targets.

Moneyball has worked so much better for other clubs than it ever has for us
I would have thought one of the reasons is you need to do it from a position of stability - drip feed new players into an established squad and let them settle and develop at their own pace.  It's just bloody madness to expect to be able to do it when you are replacing half the first team.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SamTheMouse on July 16, 2020, 10:55:57 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 15, 2020, 07:59:31 PM
Quote from: Allan C on July 15, 2020, 07:52:24 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 15, 2020, 06:54:26 PM
So that's once it's worked, but it's something we have to do.
I so wanted this to work with Smith, not because he’s a Villa fan and a “nice bloke” but because his style of play was a vast improvement on what went before. That hasn’t continued in the Premier League sadly but if he showed any sign of an improvement I would love him to stay. I can’t see it though. Can you see where he’s improved?? What are your reasons for retaining him in the Premier League??

Because if we stay up he'll have done everything asked of him in both of his seasons, with a cup final appearance as a bonus. More importantly, we have to get out of the 'rip it up and start again' mentality of the past decade.

I have misgivings about Smith, but I think I agree with this.

Maybe it's time to give someone a real chance to build a side organically, instead of expecting to buy success off the peg. He's still a relatively young manager and this has been his first season in the top division. I think there's is still potential for improvement. That applies to most of our players too.

Obviously there's no guarantee it would work, but if we don't try we'll never know.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on July 16, 2020, 11:00:24 AM
Quote from: chrisw1 on July 16, 2020, 09:58:39 AM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on July 16, 2020, 08:33:17 AM
Quote from: ozzjim on July 15, 2020, 11:19:21 PM
Thomas Frank was his assistant there with an eye on taking the job for continuity when he went though. And the recruitment at Brentford was never the job of the manager and still isn't, they have a system and metrics to choose their targets.

Moneyball has worked so much better for other clubs than it ever has for us
I would have thought one of the reasons is you need to do it from a position of stability - drip feed new players into an established squad and let them settle and develop at their own pace.  It's just bloody madness to expect to be able to do it when you are replacing half the first team.

I think you're probably right there
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on July 16, 2020, 11:14:46 AM
Not just that, if you want to implement a system of bringing through youngsters, selling for a profit and replacing then you have to give it time. The problem we have is that everyone buys into the idea until we lose a few games and then people lose their nerve, fans call for Big Sam to save the season, managers start picking based on experience and owners give the funds to bring through a few older heads and the whole thing falls apart within a year.

If we want a team full of kids who've come through our academy and then been added to with quality young signings then we need to give them time and not write those players off after 10-15 games, not write the manager off after 6months and not start calling the owners and board out as smarmy and bullshitters whenever we get upset.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on July 16, 2020, 11:18:38 AM
Right but it's not as simple as buying young players who need time to develop and letting them improve - they won't improve if they're not being coached right, and meanwhile the short-term results won't be as good as they can be if the players aren't deployed in a sensible system with cohesive game plan.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on July 16, 2020, 11:37:47 AM
You need to do it along side a few older heads - at least at first.  It shouldn't be all or nothing.  Whether the time to try to start it is immediately after promotion is also something they should have considered.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on July 16, 2020, 11:56:35 AM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on July 16, 2020, 11:18:38 AM
Right but it's not as simple as buying young players who need time to develop and letting them improve - they won't improve if they're not being coached right, and meanwhile the short-term results won't be as good as they can be if the players aren't deployed in a sensible system with cohesive game plan.

Of course it's not that simple, but even if you get everything right you need to give it a few years to really see the value. At a smaller club like Southampton or Brentford I think the fans are more willing to give that time than we are.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on July 16, 2020, 12:08:46 PM
We've been abysmal on the pitch for 8 months, I've seen nothing in our football to suggest the manager can improve the kids and to be a stable club.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 16, 2020, 12:49:18 PM
Buying young players and selling them for a profit has nothing to do wth the moneyball approach used by Billy Beane.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on July 16, 2020, 12:55:43 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on July 16, 2020, 12:49:18 PM
Buying young players and selling them for a profit has nothing to do wth the moneyball approach used by Billy Beane.

You are correct about young players, but not about increasing the market value of the assets.

"The Moneyball thesis is simple: Using statistical analysis, small-market teams can compete by buying assets that are undervalued by other teams and selling ones that are overvalued by other teams."  - The Economics of Moneyball (https://grantland.com/features/the-economics-moneyball)

MLB players regularly play on until their late thirties, whereas the mean average age of top flight football players is much lower, so it stands to reason that the easiest way to increase an "undervalued" football player's value is to buy them young and develop them.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 16, 2020, 01:03:06 PM
Beane signed David Justice, age has nothing to do with it. Resale value had nothing to do with it. He'd have signed a 50 year old with one leg if his OBP warranted it. The overvalue was to do with 'sexy' players like Damon, or closers who could have their numbers inflated if used correctly.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ozzjim on July 16, 2020, 01:10:20 PM
Re Bruce, he lucked out getting Saint Maximan. Put him in our team all season, we are safe now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on July 16, 2020, 01:37:42 PM
It's all well and good focusing on bringing young players through but we're short of any decent Premiere League experienced leaders. Someone who knows all the tricks in the book and is familiar with dark arts of Premiere League football. Although in recent years we seem to have bought the very worst examples of this in Richards, Lescott, Drinkwater etc.

I'm trying to think of the last "experienced" player we brought in who actually improved the team. John Terry, i suppose. He surprised me at how good a player he was.   
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 16, 2020, 01:44:44 PM
Heaton, Snodgrass, Elmo, Jedi, Chester, Albert, Kod are a few more.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on July 16, 2020, 02:05:29 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on July 16, 2020, 01:03:06 PM
Beane signed David Justice, age has nothing to do with it. Resale value had nothing to do with it. He'd have signed a 50 year old with one leg if his OBP warranted it. The overvalue was to do with 'sexy' players like Damon, or closers who could have their numbers inflated if used correctly.

Okay. So, getting back to my point which you ignored, when you apply the methodology to football, which is naturally a very different sport with different mechanics, parameters and metrics, the Moneyball approach substantively changes. Edens, Purslow, Suso clearly agreed to approach it as a "let's buy relatively young based on analytics of potential and sell for a bigger price in a massively inflated market". Which other teams have done also.

It's essentially the same approach as Paddy Riley's - which also failed Aston Villa.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tomd2103 on July 16, 2020, 02:07:47 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on July 16, 2020, 01:03:06 PM
Beane signed David Justice, age has nothing to do with it. Resale value had nothing to do with it. He'd have signed a 50 year old with one leg if his OBP warranted it. The overvalue was to do with 'sexy' players like Damon, or closers who could have their numbers inflated if used correctly.

More to do with salaries in American sports than transfer fees as well. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on July 16, 2020, 02:15:40 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on July 16, 2020, 01:44:44 PM
Heaton, Snodgrass, Elmo, Jedi, Chester, Albert, Kod are a few more.

Snodgrass aside, I'm not sure how much premier league experience this lot have? honestly haven't checked
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on July 16, 2020, 02:21:22 PM
Well Heaton, Snodgrass, Elmo, Jedi and Chester had absolutely loads.  Albert and Kodjia hardly any.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on July 16, 2020, 02:32:26 PM
Fair enough - except for Chester. Forget everything I posted just now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 16, 2020, 08:02:00 PM


Mad to think we still had 3 subs left at 1-0 up.

I'd love to know what goes through his head at times at critical moments in the second half.

We've seen countless times at VP when away teams are winning 1-0 and their keepers are taking half an hour to take a goal kick and they're making a sub every minute to slow the game down.

As soon as Calvert Lewin missed Nakamba and Gulibert should've been on surely? 60 seconds later it was 1-1 and we've nearly run out of games now.

He'll never be an established prem manager for us or anywhere else until he learns the art of closing a tight game out with substitutions and time managing/wasting.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on July 16, 2020, 08:07:57 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on July 16, 2020, 08:02:00 PM
He'll never be an established prem manager for us or anywhere else until he learns the art of closing a tight game out with substitutions and time managing/wasting.

I never expected him to be so tactically inept. We've really struggled all season with the basics. Anyway, we're gone and so I expect is Dean.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 16, 2020, 08:11:47 PM
We’ve lost so many points from winning positions and it is primarily down to game management. He needs to go.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villadelph on July 16, 2020, 08:12:53 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on July 16, 2020, 08:07:57 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on July 16, 2020, 08:02:00 PM
He'll never be an established prem manager for us or anywhere else until he learns the art of closing a tight game out with substitutions and time managing/wasting.

I never expected him to be so tactically inept. We've really struggled all season with the basics. Anyway, we're gone and so I expect is Dean.
Aside from McGinn.. can anyone name a single player that Dean has improved this season?

We are god awful, have been god awful and I don't see a light at the end of this tunnel.

I cannot watch our variation of the 4-3-3 anymore. And honestly, I'm sick of Dean. Don't care who he is or how we got here, he hasn't got it in him to motivate and build a team at this level. No fire, no plan B, no accountability, no progression.. you can leave.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on July 16, 2020, 08:13:21 PM
Yes the tactics are poor. But also, it’s pretty special to get a bunch of players that are still in touch with survival, against the epitome of an on the beach team, looking so ponderous and lacking in intent. The guy clearly has no leadership qualities.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on July 16, 2020, 08:15:44 PM
I can't bear to hear whatever gormless nonsense he dreams up for the post-match interview. Switched off for the night. Football is soul-destroying.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 16, 2020, 08:22:01 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on July 16, 2020, 08:15:44 PM
I can't bear to hear whatever gormless nonsense he dreams up for the post-match interview. Switched off for the night. Football is soul-destroying.
He was okay on Sky.  No excuses, but you can tell he wasn't happy with two or three of our players.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan82 on July 16, 2020, 08:23:24 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on July 16, 2020, 08:11:47 PM
We’ve lost so many points from winning positions and it is primarily down to game management. He needs to go.

Smith sickens me. A better manager would have us on 35-36 points, at least. Thrown so much away.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nii Lamptey on July 16, 2020, 08:26:11 PM
Quote from: villadelph on July 16, 2020, 08:12:53 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on July 16, 2020, 08:07:57 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on July 16, 2020, 08:02:00 PM
He'll never be an established prem manager for us or anywhere else until he learns the art of closing a tight game out with substitutions and time managing/wasting.

I never expected him to be so tactically inept. We've really struggled all season with the basics. Anyway, we're gone and so I expect is Dean.
Aside from McGinn.. can anyone name a single player that Dean has improved this season?

We are god awful, have been god awful and I don't see a light at the end of this tunnel.

I cannot watch our variation of the 4-3-3 anymore. And honestly, I'm sick of Dean. Don't care who he is or how we got here, he hasn't got it in him to motivate and build a team at this level. No fire, no plan B, no accountability, no progression.. you can leave.
McGinn improved this season?!’ Really?!!
Barring the first half a dozen games he’s drifted between average and a waste of skin!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: David_Nab on July 16, 2020, 08:28:11 PM
Quote from: Villan82 on July 16, 2020, 08:23:24 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on July 16, 2020, 08:11:47 PM
We’ve lost so many points from winning positions and it is primarily down to game management. He needs to go.

Smith sickens me. A better manager would have us on 35-36 points, at least. Thrown so much away.

This , when it keeps happening then its down to more than just the players.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villadelph on July 16, 2020, 08:28:23 PM
Quote from: Nii Lamptey on July 16, 2020, 08:26:11 PM
Quote from: villadelph on July 16, 2020, 08:12:53 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on July 16, 2020, 08:07:57 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on July 16, 2020, 08:02:00 PM
He'll never be an established prem manager for us or anywhere else until he learns the art of closing a tight game out with substitutions and time managing/wasting.

I never expected him to be so tactically inept. We've really struggled all season with the basics. Anyway, we're gone and so I expect is Dean.
Aside from McGinn.. can anyone name a single player that Dean has improved this season?

We are god awful, have been god awful and I don't see a light at the end of this tunnel.

I cannot watch our variation of the 4-3-3 anymore. And honestly, I'm sick of Dean. Don't care who he is or how we got here, he hasn't got it in him to motivate and build a team at this level. No fire, no plan B, no accountability, no progression.. you can leave.
McGinn improved this season?!’ Really?!!
Barring the first half a dozen games he’s drifted between average and a waste of skin!

Regardless of your feelings about McGinn.. you see where I'm going with this.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on July 16, 2020, 08:29:45 PM
Yes McGinn got steadily worse from his first game onwards, even before his injury. And even when he was bang in form he played better for Scotland. Smith is a shit Midas.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 16, 2020, 08:33:57 PM
Nice bloke, did well to get us up last season but he’s clearly a very limited manager.
Someone put him out of his misery on the bus back from the Tax Payer Bowl.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 16, 2020, 08:37:54 PM
His interview was the usual gormless  bollocks.
We get into a winning position and he again fails to get the team over the line.
Repetition
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on July 16, 2020, 08:39:16 PM
I don't blame the manager for that draw.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 16, 2020, 08:42:31 PM
Quote from: Ads on July 16, 2020, 08:39:16 PM
I don't blame the manager for that draw.

Nor me.

Playing for the point against Wolves though...
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on July 16, 2020, 08:44:49 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on July 16, 2020, 08:42:31 PM
Quote from: Ads on July 16, 2020, 08:39:16 PM
I don't blame the manager for that draw.

Nor me.

Playing for the point against Wolves though...

Yep. That's fair. We've sprung into life, fashionably late.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on July 16, 2020, 08:46:53 PM
Not good enough. Championship manager.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on July 16, 2020, 08:47:21 PM
Hold on, game management for the last ten minutes was very poor from all of them, including Dean Smith.  The cross for their equaliser should have been stopped and we were all over the place for that ball in to the box.  When our backs are against the wall, why did Nakamba not replace Hourihane or the tiring SJM?  Other managers make subs to change the game, ours didn't tonight.  It may be harsh but this is why we will go down.   The comment from Dean about us getting better through the season?  Why are we still in the bottom 3 and have won only one game since restart? Statistically, have we really got better?  Not all Dean's fault as the players have to work harder to cut out crosses.

Trezeguet, back to being a competition winner.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on July 16, 2020, 08:49:02 PM
Dean's fucked up and should be fucked off. Time to think big.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: JJ-AV on July 16, 2020, 08:51:50 PM
Anwar, Trezeguet, Jota, Wesley, Samatta and Baston have been our forward aquisitions this season. It's clear where the issues are and who the problems lie with for me.

Stick with Dean. He can get us up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 16, 2020, 08:54:50 PM
Our defensive record is equally fucking atrocious.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan82 on July 16, 2020, 08:55:25 PM
We all know the games that have resulted in us being at the arse end of the table all season. There's 5 or 6 games in particular- we know them:  against ten man West Ham at home, against ten man Arsenal away, Liverpool at home, Spurs at home and let's add Bournemouth at home. That lot there gave us one point. One bloody point despite playing really well, leading in three of them and/or having a man advantage/ conceding stupid careless late goals that resulted in nil points.

The games above, given their contexts, should have yielded 5 more points than they did in my opinion. I know there are hard luck stories in a season - I deliberately left out Palace away - but we kept on managing games badly, making stupid mistakes and throwing away points. We didn't learn and that's on Smith. We have had one obvious weakness all season, one that has cost us very dearly, and the inquisition needs to get to the bottom of why it wasn't rectified.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villadelph on July 16, 2020, 08:57:14 PM
Quote from: JJ-AV on July 16, 2020, 08:51:50 PM
Anwar, Trezeguet, Jota, Wesley, Samatta and Baston have been our forward aquisitions this season. It's clear where the issues are and who the problems lie with for me.

Stick with Dean. He can get us up.

Then sack him right before the next premier league campaign starts, right?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 16, 2020, 08:57:28 PM
Samatta is shit and Davis - 55 appearances, 2 goals - is even worse. A 1 in 27 striker.

Not the only reason we're going down but plenty of us pointed out the lack of goalscoring pedigree when we started the season with options of Wesley, Davis and Kodjia, all three of whom are utter garbage.

Low standards all around, mediocre players from shit leagues, a manager who has looked like a fucking imposter since day one, and a selection of players with a collective heart the size of a lump of rabbit shit.

Purslow has sat and watched this horror show pan out - week after week of the same failings - all season and just meekly accepted it.

As far as I am concerned Purslow, Smith and
Suso all need to be gone on the final whistle at West ham.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 16, 2020, 08:58:37 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on July 16, 2020, 08:22:01 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on July 16, 2020, 08:15:44 PM
I can't bear to hear whatever gormless nonsense he dreams up for the post-match interview. Switched off for the night. Football is soul-destroying.
He was okay on Sky.  No excuses, but you can tell he wasn't happy with two or three of our players.

How about looking in the mirror once in a while? Yes the players are on the pitch but he does fuck all to help them.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on July 16, 2020, 08:58:54 PM
If we'd had a quality wide player and forward, we'd have annhilated Everton. But then we'd probably be 8th or something.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 16, 2020, 08:59:34 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on July 16, 2020, 08:57:28 PM
Samatta is shit and Davis - 55 appearances, 2 goals - is even worse. A 1 in 27 striker.

Not the only reason we're going down but plenty of us pointed out the lack of goalscoring pedigree when we started the season with options of Wesley, Davis and Kodjia, all three of whom are utter garbage.

Low standards all around, mediocre players from shit leagues, a manager who has looked like a fucking imposter since day one, and a selection of players with a collective heart the size of a lump of rabbit shit.

Purslow has sat and watched this horror show pan out - week after week of the same failings - all season and just meekly accepted it.

As far as I am concerned Purslow, Smith and
Suso all need to be gone on the final whistle at West ham.

We've taken one of the top scorers in Belgian football and chopped his nuts off. Completely neutered him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aev on July 16, 2020, 09:05:54 PM
I thought when we signed Samatta he thrived on decent crosses, like the one he got in the final.

Our crossing and dead ball delivery is very average.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on July 16, 2020, 09:06:30 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on July 16, 2020, 08:59:34 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on July 16, 2020, 08:57:28 PM
Samatta is shit and Davis - 55 appearances, 2 goals - is even worse. A 1 in 27 striker.

Not the only reason we're going down but plenty of us pointed out the lack of goalscoring pedigree when we started the season with options of Wesley, Davis and Kodjia, all three of whom are utter garbage.

Low standards all around, mediocre players from shit leagues, a manager who has looked like a fucking imposter since day one, and a selection of players with a collective heart the size of a lump of rabbit shit.

Purslow has sat and watched this horror show pan out - week after week of the same failings - all season and just meekly accepted it.

As far as I am concerned Purslow, Smith and
Suso all need to be gone on the final whistle at West ham.

We've taken one of the top scorers in Belgian football and chopped his nuts off. Completely neutered him.

Quality rant Mr Shin.  TV, I agree.  Samatta is almost as poor as Bosco Balaban.   He spends quite some time out of the area when the ball comes in too.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villadelph on July 16, 2020, 09:14:13 PM
Quote from: Newby on July 16, 2020, 09:06:30 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on July 16, 2020, 08:59:34 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on July 16, 2020, 08:57:28 PM
Samatta is shit and Davis - 55 appearances, 2 goals - is even worse. A 1 in 27 striker.

Not the only reason we're going down but plenty of us pointed out the lack of goalscoring pedigree when we started the season with options of Wesley, Davis and Kodjia, all three of whom are utter garbage.

Low standards all around, mediocre players from shit leagues, a manager who has looked like a fucking imposter since day one, and a selection of players with a collective heart the size of a lump of rabbit shit.

Purslow has sat and watched this horror show pan out - week after week of the same failings - all season and just meekly accepted it.

As far as I am concerned Purslow, Smith and
Suso all need to be gone on the final whistle at West ham.

We've taken one of the top scorers in Belgian football and chopped his nuts off. Completely neutered him.

Quality rant Mr Shin.  TV, I agree.  Samatta is almost as poor as Bosco Balaban.   He spends quite some time out of the area when the ball comes in too.

I blame the formation. It's horrible. We get pinned back and our 4-3-3 turns into a 6-3-1. Everyone going forward is isolated and cannot connect the dots. The players at our disposal don't have the quality to do it by themselves.

WE WERE PROMISED FRONT FOOT ATTACKING FOOTBALL and we get dicked every weekend. Give up shit goals, can't score and just plain embarrass ourselves.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on July 16, 2020, 09:16:51 PM
Samatta I don’t understand. Against spurs he was our best player. Really looked like a proper striker, getting into the right positions, nightmare for defenders, ball stuck to him. Either he really did just flatter to deceive or something has gone on.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: exiled on the wirral! on July 16, 2020, 09:18:49 PM
Quote from: aev on July 16, 2020, 09:05:54 PM
I thought when we signed Samatta he thrived on decent crosses, like the one he got in the final.

Our crossing and dead ball delivery is very average.
We've scored 2 goals from set pieces in our last 2 games.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 16, 2020, 09:20:03 PM
Quote from: themossman on July 16, 2020, 09:16:51 PM
Samatta I don’t understand. Against spurs he was our best player. Really looked like a proper striker, getting into the right positions, nightmare for defenders, ball stuck to him. Either he really did just flatter to deceive or something has gone on.

Whatever it is, he's a veritable hindrance at the moment.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aev on July 16, 2020, 09:21:09 PM
Quote from: exiled on the wirral! on July 16, 2020, 09:18:49 PM
Quote from: aev on July 16, 2020, 09:05:54 PM
I thought when we signed Samatta he thrived on decent crosses, like the one he got in the final.

Our crossing and dead ball delivery is very average.
We've scored 2 goals from set pieces in our last 2 games.

I guess the key is goals scored from crosses, free kicks and corners. I’d be amazed if we weren’t in the bottom 3 for that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on July 16, 2020, 09:22:11 PM
Yep he sure is. I guess it’s not his fault we’re picking between him and our other non-scoring while our main non-scoring striker is injured.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 16, 2020, 09:23:45 PM
Quote from: themossman on July 16, 2020, 09:22:11 PM
Yep he sure is. I guess it’s not his fault we’re picking between him and our other non-scoring while our main non-scoring striker is injured.

At least Davis offers something other than his excellent non-scoring.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on July 16, 2020, 09:25:42 PM
Yea, of the two non-scorers, Davis is the way to go. Especially against side show Bob.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on July 16, 2020, 09:29:07 PM
After having Tammy last season we’ve really been let down by our front players this season. Just so toothless in the final third.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on July 16, 2020, 09:29:15 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on July 16, 2020, 09:23:45 PM
Quote from: themossman on July 16, 2020, 09:22:11 PM
Yep he sure is. I guess it’s not his fault we’re picking between him and our other non-scoring while our main non-scoring striker is injured.

At least Davis offers something other than his excellent non-scoring.

In the land of the non-scoring strikers the man who’s reasonably good at holding the ball up is king.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 16, 2020, 09:34:23 PM
Quote from: themossman on July 16, 2020, 09:29:15 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on July 16, 2020, 09:23:45 PM
Quote from: themossman on July 16, 2020, 09:22:11 PM
Yep he sure is. I guess it’s not his fault we’re picking between him and our other non-scoring while our main non-scoring striker is injured.

At least Davis offers something other than his excellent non-scoring.

In the land of the non-scoring strikers the man who’s reasonably good at holding the ball up is king.

A non-goal in the hand is worth none in the bush.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 16, 2020, 09:35:49 PM
Ha!

He said bush.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on July 16, 2020, 09:37:57 PM
It is better to have scored one goal every 27.5 games than to have never scored at all.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on July 16, 2020, 09:40:22 PM
Quote from: themossman on July 16, 2020, 09:37:57 PM
It is better to have scored one goal every 27.5 games than to have never scored at all.

It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for Keinan Davis to score a goal.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 16, 2020, 09:42:58 PM
Suso has just bid £17 million for that camel.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 16, 2020, 09:43:11 PM
What's in a goal? That which we call a goal
By any other name would just need to go in off his backside for confidence and smell as sweet.

- W. Shakespeare
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 16, 2020, 09:43:30 PM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on July 16, 2020, 09:42:58 PM
Suso has just bid £17 million for that camel.

Haha
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on July 16, 2020, 09:47:02 PM
Quote from: Newby on July 16, 2020, 08:47:21 PM
Hold on, game management for the last ten minutes was very poor from all of them, including Dean Smith.  The cross for their equaliser should have been stopped and we were all over the place for that ball in to the box.  When our backs are against the wall, why did Nakamba not replace Hourihane or the tiring SJM?  Other managers make subs to change the game, ours didn't tonight.  It may be harsh but this is why we will go down.   The comment from Dean about us getting better through the season?  Why are we still in the bottom 3 and have won only one game since restart? Statistically, have we really got better?  Not all Dean's fault as the players have to work harder to cut out crosses.

Trezeguet, back to being a competition winner.

I thought Smith set the team up well tonight. Elmo at right back, Konsa at RCB, Targett on left. McGinn further up the pitch, Hourihane and Luiz dominating possession. Trez deserved to start. Samatta over Davis, debatable but understandable. Grealish on left of the three but dropped infield quite a bit.

Half time, maybe Trez could have gone that early but fair enough give it another ten mins. Given we are the team that need to win it, I don't like seeing Everton making the first changes but to be fair he made our subs only a couple of minutes later. Arguably yes Nakamba for McGinn or Guilbert for Elmo could have been called in to kill the clock a bit. But we are clutching at straws a bit, that was an outrageous header from Walcott that he won't produce again. Dean Smith has had far worse nights on the touchline than tonight. Lack of quality out wide and up front did for us tonight.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on July 16, 2020, 10:08:43 PM
Neither a scorer nor an assister be, for villa oft lose both game and premier league status.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 16, 2020, 10:13:43 PM
Now is the winger of our discontent.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 16, 2020, 10:15:52 PM
Some are born shit, some achieve shitness, and some have shitness thrust upon them.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 16, 2020, 10:16:40 PM
Frailty, thy name is Villa.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on July 16, 2020, 10:17:28 PM
Quote from: Risso on July 16, 2020, 10:16:40 PM
Frailty, thy name is Villa.

Haha
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 16, 2020, 10:17:53 PM
Villa Park is empty and all the devils are here.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 16, 2020, 10:18:57 PM
Last one:

Trez's but a walking shadow, a poor player, that struts and frets his hour upon the pitch, and then is subbed off for El Ghazi; it is a switch made by an idiot, full of mediocrity and futility, signifying nothing
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on July 16, 2020, 10:22:09 PM
Davis could count himself a king of infinite space, and still put the free header over the bar.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave shelley on July 16, 2020, 10:26:34 PM
It is better to have loved and lost...again.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 16, 2020, 10:30:53 PM
No need to change a single word of the preceding lines to this:

Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!

Quote from: Risso on July 16, 2020, 10:18:57 PM
Last one:

Trez's but a walking shadow, a poor player, that struts and frets his hour upon the pitch, and then is subbed off for El Ghazi; it is a switch made by an idiot, full of mediocrity and futility, signifying nothing



Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 16, 2020, 10:47:33 PM
I bet you don’t get this on that SHA s(h)ite.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 16, 2020, 10:49:54 PM
The RSC are jammy fanny's
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on July 16, 2020, 11:57:35 PM
We know what we are, but know not what we may be.


We have seen better days.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan82 on July 17, 2020, 12:45:45 AM
Now, what news on the Rialto?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mellin on July 17, 2020, 01:42:34 AM
The Championship is empty and all of the players are here.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OzVilla on July 17, 2020, 07:21:28 AM
Some are born goalshy, some achieve goalshyness, and some have goalshyness thrust upon them.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on July 17, 2020, 09:11:10 AM
sadly, our pistol's cock hasn't been up all season and we've had no flashing fire to follow.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VinnieChase84 on July 17, 2020, 09:45:27 AM
He was understandably as flat as a witches tit last night (like us all)
He needs to raise spirits for tuesday. We surely have to beat one big team at somepoint this season. Hopefully arsenal run themselves into the ground in the FA cup and rest a few tuesday!.............
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 20, 2020, 11:06:35 PM
Just reading some of his comments today. I’m more convinced than before that if we go down he’ll still be manager.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on July 20, 2020, 11:15:38 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on July 20, 2020, 11:06:35 PM
Just reading some of his comments today. I’m more convinced than before that if we go down he’ll still be manager.

Yup.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on July 21, 2020, 08:24:52 AM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on July 20, 2020, 11:15:38 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on July 20, 2020, 11:06:35 PM
Just reading some of his comments today. I’m more convinced than before that if we go down he’ll still be manager.

Yup.

It certainly looks that way.  If he evidences with player purchases that he knows what we have been missing all along, and fills those gaps, I wouldn't be against giving him another crack at bringing us back up, or moving us forward if we pull off the unlikely.   He really does need to evidence that he is learning from the experience though.  If an upgrade was available, I would seek to bring them in but I do understand the conditions and restrictions under which Dean has had to work.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sid1964 on July 21, 2020, 09:05:23 AM
If Smith is given the opportunity to bring us back up (which I doubt, every Manager always believes that they wont be sacked) then he will have 10 games to prove that he can do the job, if we are mid table at that point he will be gone, and then we will be scratching around for a replacement.

Big decisions need to be made whichever division we are in next season, and I include looking at the Chief Exec role,personally if it were me I would like to see us ask the ex-Crystal Palace Owner (cant remember his name), who I listen to on the radio and he talks a lot of sense. and also our chief scout will be gone.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on July 21, 2020, 09:38:28 AM
If we go down, I can see both sides of the argument for whether he stays or not. I'm undecided at the moment if I'm honest but if they did decided to stick with him, I wouldn't be too upset but others would be and I can see why.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on July 21, 2020, 10:05:09 AM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on July 20, 2020, 11:15:38 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on July 20, 2020, 11:06:35 PM
Just reading some of his comments today. I’m more convinced than before that if we go down he’ll still be manager.

Yup.

How come? Doesn't he know his Bard? I beg to differ. In his press conference yesterday he expressed sympathy for his old mate Craig Shakespeare losing his job at Watford.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on July 21, 2020, 11:30:04 AM
down and its Smith & Co out, simple as that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mattjpa on July 21, 2020, 01:31:03 PM
Quote from: sid1964 on July 21, 2020, 09:05:23 AM
If Smith is given the opportunity to bring us back up (which I doubt, every Manager always believes that they wont be sacked) then he will have 10 games to prove that he can do the job, if we are mid table at that point he will be gone, and then we will be scratching around for a replacement.

Big decisions need to be made whichever division we are in next season, and I include looking at the Chief Exec role,personally if it were me I would like to see us ask the ex-Crystal Palace Owner (cant remember his name), who I listen to on the radio and he talks a lot of sense. and also our chief scout will be gone.

Simon Jordan? That is a real marmite shout. I would be for it, he is brutally honest and upfront. His pomp and bravado often disguise the fact that he is extremely clued up and more often than not speaks a hell of alot of sense. For a long time, Aston Villa have suffered from not having anyone in a position of authority that is willing to speak home truths or be decisive at the right time.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Scott Nielsen on July 21, 2020, 02:07:28 PM
What is it that he has said that suggests he is staying on regardless of sporting outcome?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on July 21, 2020, 02:17:02 PM
Quote from: Scott Nielsen on July 21, 2020, 02:07:28 PM
What is it that he has said that suggests he is staying on regardless of sporting outcome?

He's been talking about how relegation wouldn't cause us huge problems because of how rich the owners are and how willing they would be to put more money in.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 21, 2020, 02:21:41 PM
Hopefully for somebody else to spend.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on July 21, 2020, 04:43:33 PM
Quote from: Risso on July 21, 2020, 02:21:41 PM
Hopefully for somebody else to spend.

Unless they're taking direct control of recruitment. Probably couldn't do much worse.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Des Little on July 21, 2020, 04:50:54 PM
Quote from: mr underhill on July 21, 2020, 11:30:04 AM
down and its Smith & Co out, simple as that.

Stay up and it’s Legs & Co round mine.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 21, 2020, 10:23:13 PM


Think he's confirmed himself for next season now.

A few weeks ago we were going down Norwich style and I really couldn't see how he'd keep himself in a job.

Now we're making a right good go of it so think the board will look at things and even if worst still happens we've gone down winning a few so potential for quick winning start to championship. Given the quick turnaround we should have most of this squad for September.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: montague on July 21, 2020, 10:34:51 PM
Best game as Villa manager tonight
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on July 21, 2020, 10:41:46 PM
I'm not sure what changed but tonight we did all the things I expected from us under Smith, that's the sort of performance his Brentford team used to put in.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: wince on July 21, 2020, 10:41:50 PM
Credit where credit is due. Well done dean
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on July 21, 2020, 10:43:40 PM
Subs were a lot more proactive tonight and we were all the better for it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan82 on July 21, 2020, 10:46:41 PM
Well done Dean, credit where it' due.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy65 on July 21, 2020, 10:49:46 PM
Quote from: mattjpa on July 21, 2020, 01:31:03 PM
Quote from: sid1964 on July 21, 2020, 09:05:23 AM
If Smith is given the opportunity to bring us back up (which I doubt, every Manager always believes that they wont be sacked) then he will have 10 games to prove that he can do the job, if we are mid table at that point he will be gone, and then we will be scratching around for a replacement.

Big decisions need to be made whichever division we are in next season, and I include looking at the Chief Exec role,personally if it were me I would like to see us ask the ex-Crystal Palace Owner (cant remember his name), who I listen to on the radio and he talks a lot of sense. and also our chief scout will be gone.

Simon Jordan? That is a real marmite shout. I would be for it, he is brutally honest and upfront. His pomp and bravado often disguise the fact that he is extremely clued up and more often than not speaks a hell of alot of sense. For a long time, Aston Villa have suffered from not having anyone in a position of authority that is willing to speak home truths or be decisive at the right time.

Ditto, I like Jordan as well, although more as an interesting radio pundit
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy65 on July 21, 2020, 11:04:41 PM
Quote from: paul_e on July 21, 2020, 10:41:46 PM
I'm not sure what changed but tonight we did all the things I expected from us under Smith, that's the sort of performance his Brentford team used to put in.

Even the time wasting Lansbury sub

He got it spot on tonight
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on July 21, 2020, 11:14:25 PM
Yes praise where it’s due. If we manage this it will be because Dean (belatedly) turned us into a harder to beat team and figured out how to hang on in games. I didn’t think it was the right approach with the players we had but if we stay up it was, and  he will deserve huge credit.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on July 21, 2020, 11:19:01 PM
Arteta is an astute tactician and Dean outdid him tonight.  We took full advantage of Arsenal's 'after the Lord Mayor show' but who cares, we needed to win and we did.  Excellent from Dean Smith tonight.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 21, 2020, 11:28:25 PM
It will be impossible to fire him if he keeps us up now. And I’ve been one of his harshest critics. Unless Pochettino or Allegri suddenly picks up the phone and says they want the job it would be unfair to can him if we gets us out of trouble.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 21, 2020, 11:32:56 PM
He's finally getting performances out of the squad and just at the crucial time; he deserves massive credit for that.  If he does keep us up he's fulfilled his brief, albeit by a close margin, and probably deserves to stay.  But I do still doubt he's the man to take us higher up the table.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on July 21, 2020, 11:33:35 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on July 21, 2020, 11:28:25 PM
It will be impossible to fire him if he keeps us up now. And I’ve been one of his harshest critics. Unless Pochettino or Allegri suddenly picks up the phone and says they want the job it would be unfair to can him if we gets us out of trouble.

If you drive a Ford Mondeo and someone offers you a BMW X3, you have a decision to make.  I am in the same camp as you and still want an upgrade, whether he keeps us up or not.  No room for sentiment.  Obviously, if the BMW X3 isn't available, we keep what we have.  Part of me wants to see what he can do but I'd like the managers named so we move forward quicker.  I guess I need to be more patient.  A Mondeo is kind of where I see Dean is at.  A decent car but not particularly sexy, a steady plodder, reliable if a little boring.  Sorry to anyone who owns one as they are decent cars.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 21, 2020, 11:35:33 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on July 21, 2020, 11:32:56 PM
He's finally getting performances out of the squad and just at the crucial time; he deserves massive credit for that.  If he does keep us up he's fulfilled his brief, albeit by a close margin, and probably deserves to stay.  But I do still doubt he's the man to take us higher up the table.

Yep. I don’t have a lot of room for sentiment. But I don’t see us firing him if he kept us up. Even if we really should for all that preceded it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Olof's Beard on July 21, 2020, 11:35:58 PM
The criticism of Smith post-lockdown just makes me want him to succeed all the more. While I understand the frustration of defeats, costly mistakes and lack of cutting edge, those who claimed it impossible to tell what we'd been working on over the break didn't have their eyes open. We get back into shape so much more quickly than we were and we've even closed the gaps between the centre halves and full backs  (without leaving ourselves as vulnerable to the switch of play as we were in the Cup Final and the Chelsea home hame) in recent weeks. He's also right when he says it's been fine margins for much of the season.

We led home and away vs Spurs, away at Arsenal, home to Liverpool, home to Chelsea and lost them all. It's infuriating, hugely frustrating, but incomparable to 2016. The last few games, we've shown that we're learning how to balance defence and attack in a way we haven't managed all season. I hope for the sake of Dean Smith (who lest we forget, will still be grieving for his Dad) that we finish the job on Sunday. We'd deserve it and so would he.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 21, 2020, 11:47:54 PM
If he stays up he'll probably keep his job, but his dad's death has no more bearing on his employment than Bruce's did.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan82 on July 22, 2020, 12:01:27 AM
Quote from: montague on July 21, 2020, 10:34:51 PM
Best game as Villa manager tonight

This, he really looked 'on it' tonight, you could see it in his eyes.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on July 22, 2020, 07:28:04 AM
Quote from: Risso on July 21, 2020, 11:47:54 PM
If he stays up he'll probably keep his job, but his dad's death has no more bearing on his employment than Bruce's did.

As I think I  said at the time, anyone's father dying would have an effect on their ability to do their job. Though I think you're right in saying that Bruce's dad dying wouldn't have had any effect on Smith's job.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on July 22, 2020, 07:29:05 AM
Interesting question post match about his emotions Nd Smith's response about being fairly level most of the time as the players need a consistent approach. I liked that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OzVilla on July 22, 2020, 07:34:49 AM
I've been highly critical of Dean Smith at times this season but credit where it's due, he set the team up well, managed the game well for the players in the closing minutes and has improved the likes of Konsa and Luiz immeasurably since the break.  I still have major doubts but if he can finish the job on Sunday..........
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on July 22, 2020, 08:13:18 AM
He's done well since the restart, albeit with some frustrating results mainly due to woeful fininshing.  We've been in every game except for Chelsea.

I've never really been fully Smith in or Smith out.  Now we are where we are, whatever happens Saturday I wouldn't change him for the sake of it, but yes if by some miracle Poch fancied the gig then we'd be daft not to go for it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: algy on July 22, 2020, 08:33:36 AM
Had we been able to defend as well at the start of the season as we have been post-lockdown, we'd be sitting comfortably in mid table by now.

If we stay up and keep hold of Jack, we'll be fine next season. For me, Dean's doing as well as anyone. Keep hold, I don't think anyone will be calling for his head in 12 months time.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ASHTONVILLA on July 22, 2020, 08:37:00 AM
Much better tactics and use of substitutions. Play like that with a better striker and we would be nowhere near the relegation zone.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on July 22, 2020, 08:39:15 AM
If we stay up I'd be going all in for Abraham
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on July 22, 2020, 09:07:42 AM
Yes definitely his best game last night

I still have a nagging feeling that if it wasn’t for injuries the back 4 he was going with was Konsa Hause Mings Taylor
that back four won’t win you many games yet he thought it was ok

I mean Guilbert been sitting on the bench for the last few weeks and he’s the best full back we got

I know today is not one for negativity but i still can’t help but be concerned


Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 22, 2020, 09:12:16 AM
Quote from: mr underhill on July 22, 2020, 08:39:15 AM
If we stay up I'd be going all in for Abraham

This. And Tuanzabe
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on July 22, 2020, 09:13:51 AM
Out of interest what do you think we could get Abraham?  Is he a £45m player?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on July 22, 2020, 09:19:56 AM
Quote from: chrisw1 on July 22, 2020, 09:13:51 AM
Out of interest what do you think we could get Abraham?  Is he a £45m player?

I doubt the fee would be far away from that, possibly even higher
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nii Lamptey on July 22, 2020, 09:22:44 AM
Smith could have saved his job last night - Confident game management throughout, that hopefully continues into Sunday.

I've been firmly in the Smith Out camp since Christmas. All I want is to see Villa succeed, and if that is with a new revitalised Dean Smith, then I'm all for it.

Anyone else think both he and the coaching staff seemed much more animated/engaged with the players last night than usual, especially during the drinks breaks. The players seemed to be a lot more connected, listening/taking advice from Dean and co.

He's been lucky with the starting eleven, as injuries seem to have forced his hand into a winning formula, but sometimes you need that bit of luck (*Steve Bruce quote!)

We saw a glimmer of what we were hoping to get with Dean Smith last night. He's set the bar now, and long may it continue.

UTV
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ger Regan on July 22, 2020, 09:37:21 AM
I've been as critical of smith as anyone, and if we stop up I think he's done enough to be given a crack next season. Yesterday was really the first time that i've seen him proactively change things mid-game, it's been something i've been concerned about wtih him for a long time (even the playoff final he left it very late in making any changes and it put us under unnecessary pressure). If he can show that he's learned and is adapting then i'm happy for him to stay on.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on July 22, 2020, 09:39:51 AM
I wonder if he's concerned that the players available on the bench are not as good as what is out on the field, hence being reluctant to make changes unless forced.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ger Regan on July 22, 2020, 09:47:27 AM
Quote from: Ian J on July 22, 2020, 09:39:51 AM
I wonder if he's concerned that the players available on the bench are not as good as what is out on the field, hence being reluctant to make changes unless forced.
This has been an issue since he joined, not just since the restart. It's not a particular strong excuse for me.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on July 22, 2020, 09:55:43 AM
Quote from: Ger Regan on July 22, 2020, 09:47:27 AM
Quote from: Ian J on July 22, 2020, 09:39:51 AM
I wonder if he's concerned that the players available on the bench are not as good as what is out on the field, hence being reluctant to make changes unless forced.
This has been an issue since he joined, not just since the restart. It's not a particular strong excuse for me.
I agree, I'm not making excuses for him, but wondering why he's so reluctant to do so. It's always a like for like change too, more down to fatigue than tactical. It is the most frustrating thing about him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 22, 2020, 09:59:33 AM
He got it spot on last night, Arse were getting at us wide so he moved  to 4 across the middle.
The subs worked and we got forward and kept them honest.
Well done DS.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 22, 2020, 09:59:39 AM
He got a bit of luck last night, which you could argue he's been due.  If the one that bounced off the post and into Reina's arms creeps in, then we'd be as good as down.  As it is, our fate is mostly in our own hands, short of Watford bettering any win we might manage.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on July 22, 2020, 12:20:32 PM
Quote from: Risso on July 22, 2020, 09:59:39 AM
He got a bit of luck last night, which you could argue he's been due.  If the one that bounced off the post and into Reina's arms creeps in, then we'd be as good as down.  As it is, our fate is mostly in our own hands, short of Watford bettering any win we might manage.

That wasn't luck. It was a misplaced header from their player, if he'd managed to get it on target it may have been a goal.

Similarly, Davis' miss for us.

I can sense you're pleased we won but disappointed at the ramifications of Smith staying.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AV82EC on July 22, 2020, 12:30:13 PM
I was 50/50 on Smith up until the United game when I thought he’d utterly lost it and needed to be replaced. Huge thanks to him for what he’s achieved in the last few games to get us where we are but I’m still falling on the side of upgrading if that’s possible and we stay up. If we stay up and we couldn’t upgrade then he would stay. If we go down then he should go.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KevinGage on July 22, 2020, 12:35:29 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on July 22, 2020, 09:13:51 AM
Out of interest what do you think we could get Abraham?  Is he a £45m player?

In the current market Wesley and Dominic Solanke are £20 million+ forwards, so aye.

If we offered £30 million plus up top with more on staying up/ appearances and a decent sell on percentage they might go for it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 22, 2020, 12:37:38 PM
We looked dead and gone in that second half against manure. He's done very well to instill belief back in the players after that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: exiled on the wirral! on July 22, 2020, 12:40:58 PM
Quote from: Drummond on July 22, 2020, 12:20:32 PM
Quote from: Risso on July 22, 2020, 09:59:39 AM
He got a bit of luck last night, which you could argue he's been due.  If the one that bounced off the post and into Reina's arms creeps in, then we'd be as good as down.  As it is, our fate is mostly in our own hands, short of Watford bettering any win we might manage.

That wasn't luck. It was a misplaced header from their player, if he'd managed to get it on target it may have been a goal.

Similarly, Davis' miss for us.

I can sense you're pleased we won but disappointed at the ramifications of Smith staying.
Agree totally with this. A lot of faint praise through gritted teeth today. At least everyone is happy for the time being.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on July 22, 2020, 12:43:35 PM
More than happy to be proved wrong and eat “humble pie” hopefully second helpings for me on Sunday, no gritted teeth. Who cares what I think, if Dean or any manager is successful, Villa are successful, that’s all that counts.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on July 22, 2020, 12:51:02 PM
Quote from: Three Spires Villa on July 22, 2020, 12:43:35 PM
More than happy to be proved wrong and eat “humble pie” hopefully second helpings for me on Sunday, no gritted teeth. Who cares what I think, if Dean or any manager is successful, Villa are successful, that’s all that counts.

Indeed, and likewise
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on July 22, 2020, 12:53:05 PM
Yep same I don’t think there’s much in way of gritted teeth really. A small minority putting emphasis on the enforced changes (or, on the other side, weirdly keen to dig other people out) but most folk just seem very happy with an unexpected win and a great shot at staying up, as it should be.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: exiled on the wirral! on July 22, 2020, 01:02:10 PM
Quote from: themossman on July 22, 2020, 12:53:05 PM
Yep same I don’t think there’s much in way of gritted teeth really. A small minority putting emphasis on the enforced changes (or, on the other side, weirdly keen to dig other people out) but most folk just seem very happy with an unexpected win and a great shot at staying up, as it should be.
Well Smith stumbling across a winning formula through luck rather than good judgement sounds like gritted teeth to me, but each to their own. I agree everyone sounds happy which is fantastic.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on July 22, 2020, 01:06:58 PM
For me has achieved two things, get us up and stay up, we are on course to do both. Debates and opinions are just that, opinions. If on Sunday we stay up and anyone is not happy, more fool them. I haven’t been a fan of Dean, I can only comment on what I see at the game or on tv. If it’s luck, keep being lucky.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave shelley on July 22, 2020, 01:35:48 PM
If, and it's a big if, we survive playing as we did last night then it will prove, to me anyway, that the players are behind him which I really thought they weren't.  That, going forward is a big plus.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on July 22, 2020, 01:38:57 PM
Quote from: AV82EC on July 22, 2020, 12:30:13 PM
I was 50/50 on Smith up until the United game when I thought he’d utterly lost it and needed to be replaced. Huge thanks to him for what he’s achieved in the last few games to get us where we are but I’m still falling on the side of upgrading if that’s possible and we stay up. If we stay up and we couldn’t upgrade then he would stay. If we go down then he should go.

It was the United game for me as well but I'm on the fence of him staying or going. I was worried that the penalty decision had broken him but to his credit we've been better since and, importantly, so has he. He made a mistake not making a sub or 2 to break up against Everton but other than that the last 3 games have been much closer to what we all thought we'd get from him this season rather than the passive stuff we'd seen too often before that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 22, 2020, 01:39:41 PM
Quote from: dave shelley on July 22, 2020, 01:35:48 PM
If, and it's a big if, we survive playing as we did last night then it will prove, to me anyway, that the players are behind him which I really thought they weren't.  That, going forward is a big plus.
That's a very good point.  Like you, I thought the poor, listless performances both before and immediately after the break showed that the players had lost faith in him.  But the last three or four games show that even if that was true, he's got them back.  Fair play to him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on July 22, 2020, 01:42:39 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on July 22, 2020, 01:39:41 PM
Quote from: dave shelley on July 22, 2020, 01:35:48 PM
If, and it's a big if, we survive playing as we did last night then it will prove, to me anyway, that the players are behind him which I really thought they weren't.  That, going forward is a big plus.
That's a very good point.  Like you, I thought the poor, listless performances both before and immediately after the break showed that the players had lost faith in him.  But the last three or four games show that even if that was true, he's got them back.  Fair play to him.


Last 3, the one before that was the worst performance under him by a log way.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Alex77 on July 22, 2020, 01:48:46 PM
Quote from: paul_e on July 22, 2020, 01:42:39 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on July 22, 2020, 01:39:41 PM
Quote from: dave shelley on July 22, 2020, 01:35:48 PM
If, and it's a big if, we survive playing as we did last night then it will prove, to me anyway, that the players are behind him which I really thought they weren't.  That, going forward is a big plus.
That's a very good point.  Like you, I thought the poor, listless performances both before and immediately after the break showed that the players had lost faith in him.  But the last three or four games show that even if that was true, he's got them back.  Fair play to him.


Last 3, the one before that was the worst performance under him by a log way.

Yes, the performances were wooden. Or am I barking up the wrong tree?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave shelley on July 22, 2020, 01:51:15 PM
Wait for it...
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ez on July 22, 2020, 01:55:12 PM
Quote from: Alex77 on July 22, 2020, 01:48:46 PM
Quote from: paul_e on July 22, 2020, 01:42:39 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on July 22, 2020, 01:39:41 PM
Quote from: dave shelley on July 22, 2020, 01:35:48 PM
If, and it's a big if, we survive playing as we did last night then it will prove, to me anyway, that the players are behind him which I really thought they weren't.  That, going forward is a big plus.
That's a very good point.  Like you, I thought the poor, listless performances both before and immediately after the break showed that the players had lost faith in him.  But the last three or four games show that even if that was true, he's got them back.  Fair play to him.


Last 3, the one before that was the worst performance under him by a log way.

Yes, the performances were wooden. Or am I barking up the wrong tree?

The last 3 games have been akin to must win games and we've played well in them. Maybe Smith's had a change of attitude.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Fred Crump on July 22, 2020, 01:56:28 PM
Quote from: dave shelley on July 22, 2020, 01:51:15 PM
Wait for it...
Don’t worry Dave. I don’t think anyone will have twigged that there is a Punathon opportunity
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on July 22, 2020, 01:59:49 PM
Oh FFS, just when I was having a good day.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on July 22, 2020, 02:01:14 PM
Quote from: ez on July 22, 2020, 01:55:12 PM
Quote from: Alex77 on July 22, 2020, 01:48:46 PM
Quote from: paul_e on July 22, 2020, 01:42:39 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on July 22, 2020, 01:39:41 PM
Quote from: dave shelley on July 22, 2020, 01:35:48 PM
If, and it's a big if, we survive playing as we did last night then it will prove, to me anyway, that the players are behind him which I really thought they weren't.  That, going forward is a big plus.
That's a very good point.  Like you, I thought the poor, listless performances both before and immediately after the break showed that the players had lost faith in him.  But the last three or four games show that even if that was true, he's got them back.  Fair play to him.


Last 3, the one before that was the worst performance under him by a log way.

Yes, the performances were wooden. Or am I barking up the wrong tree?

The last 3 games have been akin to must win games and we've played well in them. Maybe Smith's had a change of attitude.

Don’t be a plank.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Fred Crump on July 22, 2020, 02:08:50 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on July 22, 2020, 01:59:49 PM
Oh FFS, just when I was having a good day.
Maybe for Chris’s peace of mind it wood be a good idea if a splinter group should branch out into a separate Punathon thread.....Ok,  Ok , I’ll leaf it alone now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 22, 2020, 02:09:30 PM
If we stay up we need to conduct a root and branch review of our recruitment process.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Jockey Randall on July 22, 2020, 02:12:46 PM
Another game yesterday where we've limited the opposition to an expected goals total of less than 1. That's the 6th time we've done that since the restart compared to just 2 in the 28 games before.

The defensive improvement since we've come back has been brilliant and is a massive reason why we've got to where we are. Hats off to the coaching staff and all the players for the work they've done in lockdown.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan82 on July 22, 2020, 02:16:05 PM
Quote from: Fred Crump on July 22, 2020, 02:08:50 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on July 22, 2020, 01:59:49 PM
Oh FFS, just when I was having a good day.
Maybe for Chris’s peace of mind it wood be a good idea if a splinter group should branch out into a separate Punathon thread.....Ok,  Ok , I’ll leaf it alone now.

Don't lumber us with another thread.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 22, 2020, 02:28:35 PM
Quote from: Villan82 on July 22, 2020, 02:16:05 PM
Quote from: Fred Crump on July 22, 2020, 02:08:50 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on July 22, 2020, 01:59:49 PM
Oh FFS, just when I was having a good day.
Maybe for Chris’s peace of mind it wood be a good idea if a splinter group should branch out into a separate Punathon thread.....Ok,  Ok , I’ll leaf it alone now.

Don't lumber us with another thread.

I'm not sure I like the timbre of this post.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KevinGage on July 22, 2020, 02:30:05 PM
That was a nice thread for a while.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on July 22, 2020, 02:46:37 PM
i for one won't pine for Dean if he goes.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on July 22, 2020, 04:05:29 PM
I wood love it, love it, if we beat West Ham.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 22, 2020, 04:18:41 PM
He got it right last night. Now please get it right again on Sunday.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT on July 22, 2020, 05:40:54 PM
Quote from: LeeB on July 22, 2020, 02:01:14 PM
Quote from: ez on July 22, 2020, 01:55:12 PM
Quote from: Alex77 on July 22, 2020, 01:48:46 PM
Quote from: paul_e on July 22, 2020, 01:42:39 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on July 22, 2020, 01:39:41 PM
Quote from: dave shelley on July 22, 2020, 01:35:48 PM
If, and it's a big if, we survive playing as we did last night then it will prove, to me anyway, that the players are behind him which I really thought they weren't.  That, going forward is a big plus.
That's a very good point.  Like you, I thought the poor, listless performances both before and immediately after the break showed that the players had lost faith in him.  But the last three or four games show that even if that was true, he's got them back.  Fair play to him.


Last 3, the one before that was the worst performance under him by a log way.

Yes, the performances were wooden. Or am I barking up the wrong tree?

The last 3 games have been akin to must win games and we've played well in them. Maybe Smith's had a change of attitude.

Don’t be a plank.

Just hoping West Ham are on the beech.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on July 22, 2020, 07:45:43 PM
I've only just twigged the punathon
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ez on July 22, 2020, 09:10:45 PM
Quote from: mr underhill on July 22, 2020, 02:46:37 PM
i for one won't pine for Dean if he goes.

We would deal with it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on July 23, 2020, 08:48:35 AM
Quote
Smith’s game-management was superb, particularly his timing and choice of substitutes to maintain Villa’s supreme enterprise levels
From the Times' Henry Winter on the Arsenal game.
Perhaps he has learned some stuff this season ... or am I barking up the wrong tree?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on July 23, 2020, 09:01:53 AM
Quote from: ez on July 22, 2020, 09:10:45 PM
Quote from: mr underhill on July 22, 2020, 02:46:37 PM
i for one won't pine for Dean if he goes.

We would deal with it.

We would keep our disappointment at Bay.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on July 23, 2020, 09:06:31 AM
If he fails to keep us up I’m happy for him to stay as I think he’s a great candidate for getting us back up. If we stay up I don’t think he’s such a great choice for consolidating a mid table finish next year.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on July 23, 2020, 09:31:26 AM
Quote from: PeterWithe on July 23, 2020, 09:06:31 AM
If he fails to keep us up I’m happy for him to stay as I think he’s a great candidate for getting us back up. If we stay up I don’t think he’s such a great choice for consolidating a mid table finish next year.

I think either way he deserves a chance.

If we stay up, we really have to be pushing on and aiming for a top half finish.

If we go down we should be aiming, and expecting, to go up automatically and disappointed if we're only 2nd.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 23, 2020, 09:34:08 AM
Have we ever been happy with a manager overtly appointed to consolidate a mid-table position? I'll be getting out a bedsheet.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: DB on July 23, 2020, 09:41:31 AM
The recruitment didn't help him but I have not seen enough this season to convince me he should stay on if we stay up. If we go down then not sure, But Ithink the club will keep him on.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KevinGage on July 23, 2020, 10:19:08 AM
Quote from: Drummond on July 23, 2020, 09:31:26 AM
Quote from: PeterWithe on July 23, 2020, 09:06:31 AM
If he fails to keep us up I’m happy for him to stay as I think he’s a great candidate for getting us back up. If we stay up I don’t think he’s such a great choice for consolidating a mid table finish next year.

I think either way he deserves a chance.

He might deserve a chance.

Shouldn't automatically mean he gets one. The job is too big to limit our future chances of progression by going all Corinthian Casuals.

Football seems to be one of the few industries where you appoint a guy to do one specific job and shut yourself off from the notion that it might take a different guy with a different skillset to take it on further. That call usually only gets made after a bad sequence of results forces the issue.

I wouldn't be distraught to see him remain but depending on budget and the owners intentions for the future we owe it to ourselves to make sure we have the best possible candidate for establishing Villa back among the leading lights in football.

Out pattern of play and set up this season doesn't suggest to me Smith would be that guy.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nunkin1965 on July 23, 2020, 10:27:57 AM
I can’t see Smith being sacked after (hopefully) keeping us up and getting us to a Cup Final.
He may have a short fuse with the owners next season though.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 23, 2020, 10:30:21 AM
This idea of going so far then bringing in some mythical better manager. If it's that easy who doesn't everyone do it?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KevinGage on July 23, 2020, 10:36:00 AM
Clubs do it all the time.  We did it with Smith in place of Bruce, for example.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on July 23, 2020, 10:48:22 AM
No, Bruce went because he failed to do the job he was appointed for twice and was well on the way to failing a 3rd time.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on July 23, 2020, 11:26:44 AM
Slightly unfair WBA went up last night on the same number of points we had two years ago. I entirely agree, though, that he failed in the end but most do.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 23, 2020, 11:28:18 AM
Quote from: KevinGage on July 23, 2020, 10:36:00 AM
Clubs do it all the time.  We did it with Smith in place of Bruce, for example.



We didn't have a better one lined up, which is what some think should happen.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nunkin1965 on July 23, 2020, 11:49:35 AM
I think I’ve posted before that I’m hoping for a repeat of the Sir Graham scenario of a tough return to the top flight where there was a big majority to sack him and he turned it around with an impressive following season.
Not sure if I’m correct but a streaky 1-0 over Derby County (did Platty round the keeper to score?) sent us on our way upwards and transformed the fortunes of SGT.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OzVilla on July 23, 2020, 11:53:21 AM
Yep, 1-0 over Derby in September 89, Saunders missed some sitters for Derby that day too. Just after Beelzebub demolished us against QPR iirc.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 23, 2020, 11:54:54 AM
Quote from: OzVilla on July 23, 2020, 11:53:21 AM
Yep, 1-0 over Derby in September 89, Saunders missed some sitters for Derby that day too. Just after Beelzebub demolished us against QPR iirc.

He was also getting a load of stick towards the end of the previous season, particularly after we lost at QPR on (I think) Easter Monday.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 23, 2020, 12:04:22 PM
When the QPR game ended we'd won 7 of the last 35 league games, we lost 7 of the next 35.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on July 23, 2020, 12:39:36 PM
Quote from: KevinGage on July 23, 2020, 10:36:00 AM
Clubs do it all the time.  We did it with Smith in place of Bruce, for example.


The same Bruce who's rather limited Newcastle team is ten points ahead of Dean Smith's?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 23, 2020, 12:43:35 PM
Quote from: Damo70 on July 23, 2020, 12:39:36 PM
Quote from: KevinGage on July 23, 2020, 10:36:00 AM
Clubs do it all the time.  We did it with Smith in place of Bruce, for example.


The same Bruce who's rather limited Newcastle team is ten points ahead of Dean Smith's?

John Docherty finished 13 points ahead of SGT in 1989, it proves nothing.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on July 23, 2020, 12:52:24 PM
I'm pretty sure most said at the start of season if we stay up and finish 17 he's achieved his goal, some even said they would keep him even if we went down, as was the feeling that we never even contemplated promotion February last year.

In both cases that would have been a tough season with lots of low points along the way, so I am surprised that so many would want him ousted if we achieve a result on Sunday.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on July 23, 2020, 02:56:42 PM
I'd suggest that should we stay up in 17th then he's achieved the goal, given the squad, but not over achieved, which could mean that he may simply be one of a number of candidates to have a go at next years target. A mid table finish.

Anyroad, Id rather everyone at the club just concentrate on wining on Sunday for now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on July 23, 2020, 04:41:31 PM
Quote from: PeterWithe on July 23, 2020, 02:56:42 PM
I'd suggest that should we stay up in 17th then he's achieved the goal, given the squad, but not over achieved, which could mean that he may simply be one of a number of candidates to have a go at next years target. A mid table finish.

Anyroad, Id rather everyone at the club just concentrate on wining on Sunday for now.

There will be plenty of whining if anything but the desired outcome happens. As for wining, I hope they wait to do that after winning.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 23, 2020, 05:01:50 PM
Quote from: PeterWithe on July 23, 2020, 02:56:42 PM
I'd suggest that should we stay up in 17th then he's achieved the goal, given the squad, but not over achieved, which could mean that he may simply be one of a number of candidates to have a go at next years target. A mid table finish.

Anyroad, Id rather everyone at the club just concentrate on wining on Sunday for now.

There'll be much wining on Sunday, I imagine. That and beering. I know I will be!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Bent Neilsens Screamer on July 23, 2020, 05:36:00 PM
17th place before a ball was kicked would have been accepted by most, however given the tub thumping about the way we would play pre season from the hierarchy it’s been disappointing. Unbelievably we’re in a position to stop up and hopefully it’ll be confirmed on Sunday evening and that’s job done.
I’m on the fence as to if he stays or goes, give or take a few occasions it’s taken 34 games for him to show successful in game management and tactical flexibility, will this continue into the new season or will it revert to same old, same old. Given the limited time in between seasons I think I’d keep him and then see how the teams performing after say 10 games.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on July 23, 2020, 05:46:06 PM
Please, this thread can’t take another pun fest so quickly or it will collapse into a world ending singularity.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 23, 2020, 06:21:52 PM
The shorter close-season is what tips the balance for me as well.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on July 23, 2020, 06:43:06 PM
If we have stayed up he will have got us up and kept us up like Saunders and Taylor. Saunders finished 16th out of 22, SGT finished 17th out of 20 and both went on to take us on to better things. If he keeps us up he should stay, if he takes us down he should go. His job was to keep us up, even if it meant finishing 17th.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 23, 2020, 07:44:24 PM
Agreed.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TonyD on July 23, 2020, 08:02:27 PM
I think there is a lot of question re Smith this season. 

Some of his selections, subs and game management have been so dubious that part of me thinks he doesn’t have a completely free role as head coach. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: maidstonevillain on July 23, 2020, 08:26:42 PM
I don't think he is a Premiership manager. But then again I don't think Chris Wilder is either. So what do I know. But I am just about in the keep him irrespective of where we are come Sunday camp.  Partly because of the short close season, and also because of recent better results/performances.
I'm also prepared to cut him a bit of slack because I anticipate his brief when he took over was to ensure promotion by this season. Made a bit of a rod for his own back having to throw together a team  to stay up, rather than having a year to put together a team.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT on July 23, 2020, 08:44:04 PM
Against Arsenal, there were several tweaks in the formation, and the game management was so much better. For the last 20 minutes, we took the sting out of the game just at the right times.

A bit more of that over the season and it would be us playing in flip flops on Sunday.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 23, 2020, 09:07:40 PM
Micah Richards made a couple of interesting points in the post-match analysis.  He said that Smith had told him bluntly that Richards wasn't at the standard required, but also said that Smith could be too nice after defeats.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on July 24, 2020, 06:09:25 AM
I noticed that.

Could be taken in different ways. My feeling was that Smith doesn't rest on sentiment, hence telling him he could go. However, the being too nice after defeats is either a bad thing because there's not enough passion etc or that he tries to maintain an emotional level and therefore consistency which is something else he alluded to.

Whilst I like the consistent thing, I'm not sure that's the best way for all players and an absolute bollocking and him losing the plot on occasion would be no bad thing.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 24, 2020, 06:13:50 AM
Smith has said on numerous occasions he tries to maintain an emotional equilibrium, not using those words exactl.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on July 24, 2020, 09:01:29 AM
I can't think of a manager anywhere who would use the word equilibrium conversationally. Rodgers might, but only in the wrong context.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 24, 2020, 09:36:02 AM
Quote from: mr underhill on July 24, 2020, 09:01:29 AM
I can't think of a manager anywhere who would use the word equilibrium conversationally. Rodgers might, but only in the wrong context.
I think it’s the sort of thing Pearson might say to an ostrich.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on July 24, 2020, 09:43:45 AM
Quote from: Drummond on July 24, 2020, 06:09:25 AM
Whilst I like the consistent thing, I'm not sure that's the best way for all players and an absolute bollocking and him losing the plot on occasion would be no bad thing.

Its pretty clear he's worked out that the way to motivate Konsa is to single him out for stick for his mistakes. Smith is pretty astute and flexible, its just if we have the patience to let him fulfill his potential.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan82 on July 24, 2020, 10:22:03 AM
Quote from: CT on July 23, 2020, 08:44:04 PM
Against Arsenal, there were several tweaks in the formation, and the game management was so much better. For the last 20 minutes, we took the sting out of the game just at the right times.

A bit more of that over the season and it would be us playing in flip flops on Sunday.

On Tuesday Smith did all of the things that I have been frustrated at him not doing. 10/10 for Dean.

I think we are about 4-6 points off where we 'should be' because of letting things slip in certain games.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 24, 2020, 10:50:50 AM
Quote from: Drummond on July 24, 2020, 06:09:25 AM
I noticed that.

Could be taken in different ways. My feeling was that Smith doesn't rest on sentiment, hence telling him he could go. However, the being too nice after defeats is either a bad thing because there's not enough passion etc or that he tries to maintain an emotional level and therefore consistency which is something else he alluded to.

Whilst I like the consistent thing, I'm not sure that's the best way for all players and an absolute bollocking and him losing the plot on occasion would be no bad thing.

My gut feeling, based on absolutely nothing, is that it's taken a while for Smith to feel as though he belongs at this level.  I also think that the structure Purslow has put in place is completely wrong.  If Pitarch is buying most of the players, then maybe some of them don't feel like Smith's boys, if that makes sense.  Go down or stay up, Suso should be first out of the door. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on July 24, 2020, 10:53:11 AM
Quote from: PeterWithe on July 24, 2020, 09:43:45 AM
Quote from: Drummond on July 24, 2020, 06:09:25 AM
Whilst I like the consistent thing, I'm not sure that's the best way for all players and an absolute bollocking and him losing the plot on occasion would be no bad thing.

Its pretty clear he's worked out that the way to motivate Konsa is to single him out for stick for his mistakes. Smith is pretty astute and flexible, its just if we have the patience to let him fulfill his potential.

I'd like to. I really think he can do it and desperately want him to succeed, not for him, but for the club and us. God knows we've waited long enough.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 24, 2020, 10:53:15 AM
Quote from: mr underhill on July 24, 2020, 09:01:29 AM
I can't think of a manager anywhere who would use the word equilibrium conversationally. Rodgers might, but only in the wrong context.

He's from Great Barr. No chance.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ROBBO on July 24, 2020, 11:02:15 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 24, 2020, 10:53:15 AM
Quote from: mr underhill on July 24, 2020, 09:01:29 AM
I can't think of a manager anywhere who would use the word equilibrium conversationally. Rodgers might, but only in the wrong context.

He's from Great Barr. No chance.
Hey i'm off the Beeches and i was taut properli.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on July 24, 2020, 11:02:46 AM
Quote from: ROBBO on July 24, 2020, 11:02:15 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 24, 2020, 10:53:15 AM
Quote from: mr underhill on July 24, 2020, 09:01:29 AM
I can't think of a manager anywhere who would use the word equilibrium conversationally. Rodgers might, but only in the wrong context.

He's from Great Barr. No chance.
Hey i'm off the Beeches and i was taut properli.

Do you mean highly strung?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on July 24, 2020, 11:05:22 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 24, 2020, 10:53:15 AM
Quote from: mr underhill on July 24, 2020, 09:01:29 AM
I can't think of a manager anywhere who would use the word equilibrium conversationally. Rodgers might, but only in the wrong context.

He's from Great Barr. No chance.


Maybe Dean Smith thinks equilibrium is that Victorian park in Walsall.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: JD on July 24, 2020, 11:14:11 AM
Wooden you just believe it, another f'kin pun thread.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mattjpa on July 24, 2020, 11:34:26 AM
I think its probably important that if hes staying, he stops wearing those haunch-hugging sports tshirts to games
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: West Derby Villan on July 24, 2020, 02:18:53 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 24, 2020, 10:53:15 AM
Quote from: mr underhill on July 24, 2020, 09:01:29 AM
I can't think of a manager anywhere who would use the word equilibrium conversationally. Rodgers might, but only in the wrong context.

He's from Great Barr. No chance.

Whatcha mean, there’s always conversations about equilibriumin in the New Bell of a weekend!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Big Ming on July 24, 2020, 05:37:22 PM
I hope Smith will be staying, whatever the result on Sunday. Just for once, the club needs to stick to a long term plan.

It's the constant chopping and changing that is ultimately causing a lack of success.

I particularly applaud the work going on at Academy level
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: N'ZMAV on July 24, 2020, 06:54:14 PM
Quote from: Big Ming on July 24, 2020, 05:37:22 PM
I particularly applaud the work going on at Academy level
What work is going on at Academy level? I don't know much about that side of the club; so interested to find out
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave shelley on July 24, 2020, 07:13:53 PM
Quote from: West Derby Villan on July 24, 2020, 02:18:53 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 24, 2020, 10:53:15 AM
Quote from: mr underhill on July 24, 2020, 09:01:29 AM
I can't think of a manager anywhere who would use the word equilibrium conversationally. Rodgers might, but only in the wrong context.

He's from Great Barr. No chance.

Whatcha mean, there’s always conversations about equilibriumin in the New Bell of a weekend!

Changed a bit since I used it then.  Winky thing.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: West Derby Villan on July 25, 2020, 10:34:11 AM
Quote from: dave shelley on July 24, 2020, 07:13:53 PM
Quote from: West Derby Villan on July 24, 2020, 02:18:53 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 24, 2020, 10:53:15 AM
Quote from: mr underhill on July 24, 2020, 09:01:29 AM
I can't think of a manager anywhere who would use the word equilibrium conversationally. Rodgers might, but only in the wrong context.

He's from Great Barr. No chance.

Whatcha mean, there’s always conversations about equilibriumin in the New Bell of a weekend!

Changed a bit since I used it then.  Winky thing.

Certainly wouldn’t disagree with that statement Dave, shall we say it’s had a bit of a chequered history but on a very even keel now for the last 5/6 years
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: exigo on July 25, 2020, 12:40:37 PM
Premier League managers as Simpsons characters. (https://www.givemesport.com/1585658-twitter-thread-showing-premier-league-managers-as-simpsons-characters-is-going-viral?autoplay=on)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dave P on July 25, 2020, 02:37:03 PM
Quote from: N'ZMAV on July 24, 2020, 06:54:14 PM
Quote from: Big Ming on July 24, 2020, 05:37:22 PM
I particularly applaud the work going on at Academy level
What work is going on at Academy level? I don't know much about that side of the club; so interested to find out

We seem to be mopping up the best in regional coaching and scouting talent.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OCD on July 25, 2020, 06:15:31 PM
Quote from: Big Ming on July 24, 2020, 05:37:22 PM
I hope Smith will be staying, whatever the result on Sunday. Just for once, the club needs to stick to a long term plan.

It's the constant chopping and changing that is ultimately causing a lack of success.

I particularly applaud the work going on at Academy level


That's my take too.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on July 25, 2020, 06:29:08 PM
Quote from: OCD on July 25, 2020, 06:15:31 PM
Quote from: Big Ming on July 24, 2020, 05:37:22 PM
I hope Smith will be staying, whatever the result on Sunday. Just for once, the club needs to stick to a long term plan.

It's the constant chopping and changing that is ultimately causing a lack of success.

I particularly applaud the work going on at Academy level


That's my take too.

I get that point, and understand why you both and others would say this. I guess it depends on who would be available and would come, if we were to make a change or decide to stick with Dean
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 25, 2020, 07:55:56 PM
Quote from: Big Ming on July 24, 2020, 05:37:22 PM
I hope Smith will be staying, whatever the result on Sunday. Just for once, the club needs to stick to a long term plan.

It's the constant chopping and changing that is ultimately causing a lack of success.

I particularly applaud the work going on at Academy level


I’m not sure that’s true. Sticking with a manager is only going to work if they’re the right manager. For instance if we’d given Sherwood 5 years I doubt he would have turned us into world beaters. Continuity in itself won’t deliver success, but it may do if we have the right person in charge. I’m not particularly convinced by Dean, seems to repeat mistakes too much, but we’ll see.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mcgrath_85 on July 25, 2020, 08:05:22 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on July 25, 2020, 07:55:56 PM
Quote from: Big Ming on July 24, 2020, 05:37:22 PM
I hope Smith will be staying, whatever the result on Sunday. Just for once, the club needs to stick to a long term plan.

It's the constant chopping and changing that is ultimately causing a lack of success.

I particularly applaud the work going on at Academy level


I’m not sure that’s true. Sticking with a manager is only going to work if they’re the right manager. For instance if we’d given Sherwood 5 years I doubt he would have turned us into world beaters. Continuity in itself won’t deliver success, but it may do if we have the right person in charge. I’m not particularly convinced by Dean, seems to repeat mistakes too much, but we’ll see.

Very well said!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: N'ZMAV on July 25, 2020, 08:26:10 PM
fair play to the owners for sticking with Smith all season - Smith deserved that....
It's been pretty dog turd most of the season. I don't think anyone is convinced he can improve us much next season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 25, 2020, 09:08:05 PM
Quote from: N'ZMAV on July 25, 2020, 08:26:10 PM
fair play to the owners for sticking with Smith all season - Smith deserved that....
It's been pretty dog turd most of the season. I don't think anyone is convinced he can improve us much next season.

We'll have to see about that, and plenty of people believe it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on July 25, 2020, 10:01:29 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on July 25, 2020, 07:55:56 PM
Quote from: Big Ming on July 24, 2020, 05:37:22 PM
I hope Smith will be staying, whatever the result on Sunday. Just for once, the club needs to stick to a long term plan.

It's the constant chopping and changing that is ultimately causing a lack of success.

I particularly applaud the work going on at Academy level


I’m not sure that’s true. Sticking with a manager is only going to work if they’re the right manager. For instance if we’d given Sherwood 5 years I doubt he would have turned us into world beaters. Continuity in itself won’t deliver success, but it may do if we have the right person in charge. I’m not particularly convinced by Dean, seems to repeat mistakes too much, but we’ll see.

Continuity in approach is what matters. The criteria they set which meant Smith was the right choice need to be reflected in the criteria for his replacement, whenever that happens. Having a bits and pieces squad put together by people with vastly different play styles is one of the main reasons we went down before and took 3 years to get back.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 25, 2020, 10:06:18 PM
The bottom line is that Smith is either good enough to get us where we want to go, or he isn't.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 25, 2020, 10:06:42 PM
Their approach has been bobbins though.  The combination of Smith and Pitarch has been a disaster and at least one of them has to go at the end of the season.  As others have alluded to continuity when what you're doing is patently wrong is just stupid.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 25, 2020, 10:07:03 PM
Going from MON to Ged, looking at Martinez, hiring McLeish is the kind of 'joined up' thinking I hope we've seen the last of. If you believe in your plan, get a manager in that can deliver it, if that isn't DS then so be it, stick to the plan.

Obviously if the plan is shit, or it's a good plan but the people above the manager are shit at executing it, then there is a slight problem but we'll ignore that for now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulTheVillan on July 25, 2020, 10:09:49 PM
I really want Smith to succeed. If he keeps us up then I think he deserves a bit longer. On paper, getting us up and keeping us up since he's taken over is good enough.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 25, 2020, 10:10:40 PM
We've just had the equivalent of a close season and we seemed to have settled into being a comfortable mid-table side. Obviously there are a lot of unique factors to consider, but that's a step in the right direction.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mcgrath_85 on July 25, 2020, 10:13:25 PM
I don’t think Smith and his coaching staff have it in them to take us any higher. He should be replaced even if we survive tomorrow. We need to be ambitious when searching for his replacement though!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulTheVillan on July 25, 2020, 10:13:42 PM
The margins are so fine. Swap Danny Ings with any of our strikers and it'll be us near mid table and Southampton down the bottom. We really need to get the recruitment right this summer, whichever division we're in
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on July 25, 2020, 10:17:46 PM
Quote from: PaulTheVillan on July 25, 2020, 10:13:42 PM
The margins are so fine. Swap Danny Ings with any of our strikers and it'll be us near mid table and Southampton down the bottom. We really need to get the recruitment right this summer, whichever division we're in

Regardless of the recruitment though, do you think Smith has tried to play the right kind of football on a consistent basis this season?

For both better and worse this season, Southampton have at least consistently tried to play positive football. Smith has, multiple times, set us out to "be difficult to beat". And got beaten anyway. Not good enough IMO.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: colin69 on July 25, 2020, 10:22:10 PM
I’ve not been Dean Smith's biggest fan for much of this season and I wanted him out some time ago but there have been some encouraging signs recently which I hope continues tomorrow. I get the feeling the club will stick with him whatever happens tomorrow anyway but I do feel Richard Madeley is not a good fit for us at all.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 25, 2020, 10:30:27 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 25, 2020, 10:10:40 PM
We've just had the equivalent of a close season and we seemed to have settled into being a comfortable mid-table side. Obviously there are a lot of unique factors to consider, but that's a step in the right direction.

We've got 9 points from 9 games since the restart.  If that was replicated over the season we'd be in exactly the same position we are now, not mid-table.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 25, 2020, 10:33:05 PM
I’m just hoping we have the luxury of considering what’s needed for next season in the top flight come tomorrow evening.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mcgrath_85 on July 25, 2020, 10:36:58 PM
Quote from: Risso on July 25, 2020, 10:30:27 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 25, 2020, 10:10:40 PM
We've just had the equivalent of a close season and we seemed to have settled into being a comfortable mid-table side. Obviously there are a lot of unique factors to consider, but that's a step in the right direction.

We've got 9 points from 9 games since the restart.  If that was replicated over the season we'd be in exactly the same position we are now, not mid-table.

3 decent performances and all is seemingly forgotten.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 25, 2020, 10:37:34 PM
Nearly everyone we've played has been top 10 (at least) when we played them. That won't be the case over a 38 game season, we've shown mid table form. Lost to the 4 in the top 6, 9 from 5 from the others. Extrapolated over a season, comfortably mid-table.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 25, 2020, 10:40:58 PM
Quote from: mcgrath_85 on July 25, 2020, 10:36:58 PM
Quote from: Risso on July 25, 2020, 10:30:27 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 25, 2020, 10:10:40 PM
We've just had the equivalent of a close season and we seemed to have settled into being a comfortable mid-table side. Obviously there are a lot of unique factors to consider, but that's a step in the right direction.

We've got 9 points from 9 games since the restart.  If that was replicated over the season we'd be in exactly the same position we are now, not mid-table.

3 decent performances and all is seemingly forgotten.


Said nobody, at any point.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on July 25, 2020, 10:46:58 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on July 25, 2020, 10:37:34 PM
Nealry everyone we've played has been top 10 (at least) when we played them. That won't be the case over a 38 game season, we've shown mid table form. Lost to the 4 in the top 6, 9 from 5 from the others. Extrapolated over a season, comfortably mid-table.

on top of that I wouldn't mind a slow start to the season like we've just had so long as there's improvement once w're up and running, which we've seen.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on July 25, 2020, 10:48:17 PM
Quote from: Risso on July 25, 2020, 10:30:27 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 25, 2020, 10:10:40 PM
We've just had the equivalent of a close season and we seemed to have settled into being a comfortable mid-table side. Obviously there are a lot of unique factors to consider, but that's a step in the right direction.

We've got 9 points from 9 games since the restart.  If that was replicated over the season we'd be in exactly the same position we are now, not mid-table.

Win tomorrow and its 12 from 10. Over a season that ratio would have us 13th and 11 points clear of relegation...
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on July 25, 2020, 10:54:46 PM
Why on earth are we 'extrapolating' or averaging any sample results out over a full season, when we've just played a full season (albeit interrupted)? It makes no sense. Anyone could just as easily pick our worst run and aggregate that upwards.

How about we judge the manager's performance based on the full season, as every other club will theirs? Revolutionary I know 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mcgrath_85 on July 25, 2020, 10:57:34 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on July 25, 2020, 10:54:46 PM
Why on earth are we 'extrapolating' or averaging any sample results out over a full season, when we've just played a full season (albeit interrupted)? It makes no sense. Anyone could just as easily pick our worst run and aggregate that upwards.

How about we judge the manager's performance based on the full season, as every other club will theirs? Revolutionary I know 

Ha ha. Spot on!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on July 25, 2020, 10:59:49 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on July 25, 2020, 10:54:46 PM
Why on earth are we 'extrapolating' or averaging any sample results out over a full season, when we've just played a full season (albeit interrupted)? It makes no sense. Anyone could just as easily pick our worst run and aggregate that upwards.

How about we judge the manager's performance based on the full season, as every other club will theirs? Revolutionary I know 

Because lots of people thought we'd be better once the team had a pre-season and some of us think they've seen evidence to back that up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on July 25, 2020, 11:09:30 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on July 25, 2020, 10:54:46 PM
Why on earth are we 'extrapolating' or averaging any sample results out over a full season, when we've just played a full season (albeit interrupted)? It makes no sense. Anyone could just as easily pick our worst run and aggregate that upwards.

How about we judge the manager's performance based on the full season, as every other club will theirs? Revolutionary I know

True, let's just all agree with you. Life would be so much easier if we didn't have a differing point of view.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 25, 2020, 11:13:58 PM
Quote from: Drummond on July 25, 2020, 10:48:17 PM
Quote from: Risso on July 25, 2020, 10:30:27 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 25, 2020, 10:10:40 PM
We've just had the equivalent of a close season and we seemed to have settled into being a comfortable mid-table side. Obviously there are a lot of unique factors to consider, but that's a step in the right direction.

We've got 9 points from 9 games since the restart.  If that was replicated over the season we'd be in exactly the same position we are now, not mid-table.

Win tomorrow and its 12 from 10. Over a season that ratio would have us 13th and 11 points clear of relegation...

That would be brilliant, so let's just hope it happens.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 25, 2020, 11:33:14 PM
This run has kept him in a job whatever happens now I think. I at least wanted us to go down fighting and belatedly that at worst will happen.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ozzjim on July 26, 2020, 07:25:07 AM
Let's get today out the way before we can think about what happens next. This is villa. Breaking our hearts is what they do.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 26, 2020, 08:41:45 AM
Quite. Just win the game today and then let’s see.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: andyh on July 26, 2020, 09:14:20 AM
Quote from: ozzjim on July 26, 2020, 07:25:07 AM
Let's get today out the way before we can think about what happens next. This is villa. Breaking our hearts is what they do.
My thoughts exactly.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on July 26, 2020, 09:40:13 AM
Well I’ve woken up pretty nervous so I can’t image how Smith feels today. Good luck all!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on July 26, 2020, 05:59:28 PM
Promotion, Cup Final, secures place in Premier League.

Well done Dean!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on July 26, 2020, 06:02:45 PM
I was all for removing him and I think, unless there is a major upgrade, because that it football for you, then he deserves another crack for next season.  I hope for improvements to the playing squad and for Dean to have learnt from this season.  Well done for proving me wrong Dean Smith.  I salute you.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: richtheholtender on July 26, 2020, 06:03:23 PM
Well done Dean
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 26, 2020, 06:06:20 PM
Well done Dean. Must be better next year though.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 26, 2020, 06:06:43 PM
Well done Dean, pulled it out of the bag these last four games.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 26, 2020, 06:06:57 PM
Promoted, kept us up, cup final. Only Super Ron and Mercer have bettered that for us when in charge of us in the second division.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Axl Rose on July 26, 2020, 06:08:02 PM
Thank you, Dean. Well done.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aldridgeboy on July 26, 2020, 06:12:56 PM
Deserved a lot of criticism in the season. ESP since Xmas. Poor tactics and game management.

But. Credit for raising us for those last 4 games. I thought we were dead and buried.

Learn from the mistakes this year Dean. Have more than one senior striker next season. And some tried and tested premier players.

I think the consensus was we’d take 17th at the start. And a Wembley final thrown in.



But well done.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on July 26, 2020, 06:12:57 PM
Really pleased for him. Hope he learns from his mistakes next season and we have a better run of luck regarding injuries. Still need to strengthen up front and get rid of some of the deadwood.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 26, 2020, 06:15:56 PM
Well done Dean. I'd stick with him now, his target was to have us a Premier League side at the end of his second season in charge, and he's managed it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on July 26, 2020, 06:19:03 PM
Mings and McGinn will improve for the experience of this season.  We could do with Grealish being called into the England squad for the Wales friendly to show him he doesn't need to leave to realise his England dreams.  We need some pace and power, a strong central midfielder, Heaton back in goal and perhaps a couple of older heads as squad fillers.  Will be interesting to see what we do with Suso.  Hard work starts now on making sure that this never happens again.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TheMalandro on July 26, 2020, 06:19:20 PM
He's a very decent man, one of us. Would I ditch him? Probably.

Hello Poch.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tomd2103 on July 26, 2020, 06:22:52 PM
Well done Dean Smith.  Not exactly convincing, but did the job he needed to do.  Not an easy season for him on and off the pitch given the loss of his Dad, but he got there.

Deserves the start of next season to see if he can improve.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TaxDodger on July 26, 2020, 06:23:33 PM
I love you, Dean.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 26, 2020, 06:25:59 PM
I'm still not convinced but he will keep his job. But I can see there being no sympathy if we start next season struggling. We need 5 or 6 much, much better players and get rid of a good few
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SamTheMouse on July 26, 2020, 06:27:01 PM
Kept us up and took us to a cup final - you can't really say fairer than that. He's given us a platform to build on. We have to keep him and establish some continuity. I think he's going to improve, and so will the players.

Next season will show us what he's really made of.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT Villan on July 26, 2020, 06:27:55 PM
He has earned the right to start next season - which I thought was way beyond him. Well done Dean.

Over to you Sawiris and Edens...
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Monty on July 26, 2020, 06:28:09 PM
I think we need to be unsentimental and, feeling sober, I don't think he's the guy to take us to the next level. Fantastic to survive, but I really think scraping safe by a ballhair is somewhere towards our ceiling with him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 26, 2020, 06:28:46 PM
Unless someone like Poch was somehow interested DS absolutely should be manager next season. I do think he'll be given a lot less patience from the owners than he had this season though.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: levico on July 26, 2020, 06:30:03 PM
Might as well let him start the new season but if it starts to go pear shaped - out he goes.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: jwarry on July 26, 2020, 06:30:11 PM
Quote from: SamTheMouse on July 26, 2020, 06:27:01 PM
Kept us up and took us to a cup final - you can't really say fairer than that. He's given us a platform to build on. We have to keep him and establish some continuity. I think he's going to improve, and so will the players.

Next season will show us what he's really made of.

Well said STM
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 26, 2020, 06:30:51 PM
They need to sort the recruitment policy out. Staying up by the skin of our teeth can’t hide the fact that the majority of players haven’t worked out.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy65 on July 26, 2020, 06:31:00 PM
Quote from: TheMalandro on July 26, 2020, 06:19:20 PM
He's a very decent man, one of us. Would I ditch him? Probably.

Hello Poch.

There was a great article in the Times yesterday about Poch. Effectively saying all the big jobs in Europe are tied up and he should do something different rather than going for the super elite. My immediate thought was come to us if we stay up. Now that would be a statement of intent

However, fair play DS, I didnt think you had it in you, but well done. UTV
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on July 26, 2020, 06:31:13 PM
So many doubts over him in general but he's achieved every target set and got us to a cup final. Chuffed as fuck for him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KRS on July 26, 2020, 06:31:26 PM
I don’t think the owners will pull the plug on the Smith project as he’s achieved what his task was at the start of the season and that was to keep us in the PL...but I do think we need a better and more experienced manager to help secure us mid table or higher next season. I also have very little faith in the recruitment team so they need to prove me wrong too.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 26, 2020, 06:32:17 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on July 26, 2020, 06:28:46 PM
Unless someone like Poch was somehow interested DS absolutely should be manager next season. I do think he'll be given a lot less patience from the owners than he had this season though.

Agreed. We should be ruthless if someone significantly better is actually available. But Dean should now keep his job but the owners I imagine will expect mid table at minimum next season with no fucking around the arse end of the table or he will be gone before Christmas
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: UK Redsox on July 26, 2020, 06:32:31 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on July 26, 2020, 06:28:46 PM
Unless someone like Poch was somehow interested DS absolutely should be manager next season. I do think he'll be given a lot less patience from the owners than he had this season though.

Poch will have to compete with Klopp for the job. The latter has nothing left to prove at Liverpool, so should be us for a new challenge.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: passport1 on July 26, 2020, 06:34:27 PM
Quote from: levico on July 26, 2020, 06:30:03 PM
Might as well let him start the new season but if it starts to go pear shaped - out he goes.

He will probably be in post given the  quick turnaround  but  I fear we will get more of the same.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 26, 2020, 06:34:35 PM
Quote from: Risso on July 26, 2020, 06:30:51 PM
They need to sort the recruitment policy out. Staying up by the skin of our teeth can’t hide the fact that the majority of players haven’t worked out.

This and the worrying stat of 21 points dropped from winning positions, that needs addressing sharpish.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on July 26, 2020, 06:34:51 PM
I was all for replacing Smith in January. But when that didn't happen I said that having got us up if he went on to keep us up he should stay. He will be wiser for the last twelve months and we won't have to buy a whole team of new players this summer.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 26, 2020, 06:36:04 PM
Quote from: Jon Crofts on July 26, 2020, 06:34:35 PM
Quote from: Risso on July 26, 2020, 06:30:51 PM
They need to sort the recruitment policy out. Staying up by the skin of our teeth can’t hide the fact that the majority of players haven’t worked out.

This and the worrying stat of 21 points dropped from winning positions, that needs addressing sharpish.

and again it's that stat that nearly bit us in the arse vs Everton and today.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: supertom on July 26, 2020, 06:40:40 PM
Fair play to Dean. From looking hopeless a few weeks ago, we looked more like we'd need to worry about Norwich overtaking us than having any thoughts of escape. He's done it, he's found a game plan that's been effective. He's tightened the defence and been more positive in attack (as simple sometimes as throwing extra bodies in the box).
We need to keep that positive approach going into next season.

What he really needs now, is to have a look at his coaching staff. I get a sense Terry isn't long for the club, because inevitably he'll get offered a managerial position somewhere, or could go back to Chelsea to be on their staff. We need a little more coaching nous to help with our defensive organisation.

I'd say it's also worth looking at the scouting and DOF areas too, and consider a shake up. It's a difficult one because a lot of these players have shown glimpses of being good, so the scouting wasn't without merit, and perhaps Dean has found a way to get more from certainly Luiz and Trezeguet of late. But I do think we need to be looking at some proven quality who can adapt quickly and improve that spine. An experience CH to help our backline wouldn't go amiss. Full back cover. A CF and some pace out wide. If Grealish goes he'll need replacing for certain.

The goalkeeping position I think is fine with Heaton as no 1, Steer as no 2. Nyland I know has had his moments but as a third option he's fine.

I'd like to see Dean get his shot at next season. However, the first 10-15 games will tell us whether we can move forward or not. If we're struggling at Christmas then we would need to change things quickly.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Smithy on July 26, 2020, 06:49:14 PM
I have a lot of sympathy for the people who think Smith needs replacing.  I think staying up on the last day, relying on results elsewhere, given how we were all feeling on the eve of our return to the Premier League with the investments we'd made on the playing side, is probably a disappointment.  I think pretty much everyone hoped for more.

Personally, I thought we'd be embroiled mid-table mediocrity and hoped for a cup run.  I got one of those.

Whatever way you look at it, Dean has got us up, he's now kept us up, and he's given us a cup final.  He deserves another crack at it next year, hopefully with three or four quality additions to the squad.  Our recruitment HAS to be better this summer.  Last summer was about numbers for the squad, this summer HAS to be about turning current first-teamers into squad players. However, I've seen enough from the way the team has adapted and set-up in the last five or six games to know that's Dean is learning, and I'm hopeful for what we can achieve with a handful of reinforcements.

I'm already excited to see who we are going to buy to strengthen the team before Sept 12th!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 26, 2020, 06:50:26 PM
Quote from: supertom on July 26, 2020, 06:40:40 PM
I'd like to see Dean get his shot at next season. However, the first 10-15 games will tell us whether we can move forward or not. If we're struggling at Christmas then we would need to change things quickly.
I'm not a fan but I don't see how they can give him the poke now.  The problem is that if it doesn't work out, then 10-15 games into the season we're starting again, presumably having spent a lot of money on players the new manager might not fancy.  The ideal time for a new manager to come in would be tomorrow but as I say I can't see them dumping Dean and to be honest he doesn't deserve it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Smithy on July 26, 2020, 06:51:12 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on July 26, 2020, 06:36:04 PM
Quote from: Jon Crofts on July 26, 2020, 06:34:35 PM
Quote from: Risso on July 26, 2020, 06:30:51 PM
They need to sort the recruitment policy out. Staying up by the skin of our teeth can’t hide the fact that the majority of players haven’t worked out.

This and the worrying stat of 21 points dropped from winning positions, that needs addressing sharpish.

and again it's that stat that nearly bit us in the arse vs Everton and today.

It is, but I think it's much easier to learn how to hold a lead, than it is to learn how to get them in the first place.  That stat is quite damning when you see our league position, but simply learning how to hold out a bit better could see us 10 points better off next season.

I'd be much more worried if we'd stayed up by a point and rarely had good chances to win games.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Footy-Vill on July 26, 2020, 06:51:36 PM
As Deano the thinking man's coach says THIS IS BETTER THAN THE PLAY OFFS !!!
UTV !!!!
come on !!
Love this guy !!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: MoetVillan on July 26, 2020, 06:52:38 PM
Really chuffed for him. Compare how we did to Watford.... A massive rebuilding needed last summer after stepping up to a hugely competitive league. Push on now Dean
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 26, 2020, 06:53:16 PM
Quote from: Vill I An on July 26, 2020, 06:51:36 PM
As Deano the thinking man's coach says THIS IS BETTER THAN THE PLAY OFFS !!!
UTV !!!!
come on !!
Love this guy !!

Welcome back big man.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: manic-road on July 26, 2020, 07:04:48 PM
Huge congratulations to Dean, last year taking job with us in 15th. Getting promoted, makes a cup final and gets the club up to 17th at the end of the season with a largely mediocre squad. I hope he is given time and funds to carry on building the team, he has now had a season in the Prem League and will know what type of players are needed to climb up the league next season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: West Derby Villan on July 26, 2020, 07:08:16 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 26, 2020, 06:53:16 PM
Quote from: Vill I An on July 26, 2020, 06:51:36 PM
As Deano the thinking man's coach says THIS IS BETTER THAN THE PLAY OFFS !!!
UTV !!!!
come on !!
Love this guy !!

Welcome back big man.

Glad you’re back mate UTV
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Footy-Vill on July 26, 2020, 07:09:24 PM
Quote from: Vill I An on May 25, 2020, 03:00:22 PM
Let's be fair to Deano he brought Grealish game on heaps and bounds since he's been here . The high performance levels achieved by Jack are a result of Dean Smith as coach.
Smith and his way of coaching has undoubtedly really developed Grealish on field game.

The legend Deano said Jack would come to the party and score today !!
Absolutely superb how he's got him motivated in the run in final four matches.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: richtheholtender on July 26, 2020, 07:10:10 PM
I just watched his interview. Regardless of anything he is a class act.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: West Derby Villan on July 26, 2020, 07:11:49 PM
Well done Dean Smith, got us up, took us to Wembley and kept us up, JOB DONE
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Footy-Vill on July 26, 2020, 07:13:53 PM
We can all be proud to be villa.
Even more so today.


Quote from: West Derby Villan on July 26, 2020, 07:08:16 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 26, 2020, 06:53:16 PM
Quote from: Vill I An on July 26, 2020, 06:51:36 PM
As Deano the thinking man's coach says THIS IS BETTER THAN THE PLAY OFFS !!!
UTV !!!!
come on !!
Love this guy !!

Welcome back big man.

Glad you’re back mate UTV

Best wishes and enjoy your evening !
Sweet Caroline !
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Fred Crump on July 26, 2020, 07:14:09 PM
Quote from: richtheholtender on July 26, 2020, 07:10:10 PM
I just watched his interview. Regardless of anything he is a class act.
He truly is.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan82 on July 26, 2020, 07:21:23 PM
I have been critical of Dean at times this season but he has done the job and deserves another crack. I am thrilled to be eating humble pie because villa is the most important thing.

Superb form to end the season. Averaged a point per game since the re-start and 8 points in the final four games. Well done Dean, delighted for you!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 26, 2020, 07:22:49 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/football/53547974
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 26, 2020, 07:25:49 PM
Been disappointed with him at times this season but can't argue with him getting us up and keeping us up within 18 months.

Now the challenge is for him to kick on, tweak mid game as we probably won't have one fixed way of playing next season if Grealish goes.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 26, 2020, 07:27:50 PM
That last line "that one's for the old man"
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 26, 2020, 07:32:08 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on July 26, 2020, 07:27:50 PM
That last line "that one's for the old man"

yep, that was very touching and very telling. Through it all the club has stuck together. Even watching someone like Bjorn Engels in the celebration who has been out injured for a good while. We kept it together.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chris Smith on July 26, 2020, 07:35:42 PM
On the BT interview when asked what he expected next for Jack he said” I expect him to get drunk with me tonight”.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on July 26, 2020, 07:35:55 PM
Humble pie and custard for me.  Fuck Poch, he's not a Villa fan.  As long as Dean has learnt from this season and we grow and develop, I'm really happy for him to take us forward and build for a better season next season and then build year on year. He is a class person and has achieved what I thought was impossible a few games ago.  Magic.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 26, 2020, 07:36:19 PM
Good words from Dean.  It's obvious this season's taken a lot out of him but fair play to the bloke.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 26, 2020, 07:37:14 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on July 26, 2020, 07:27:50 PM
That last line "that one's for the old man"

I'm sure in quiet reflection tonight he'll shed a tear or two. Whatever we think of his managerial ability that's a perfect tribute to his late Dad keeping us up against the odds.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy65 on July 26, 2020, 07:38:21 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on July 26, 2020, 07:32:08 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on July 26, 2020, 07:27:50 PM
That last line "that one's for the old man"

yep, that was very touching and very telling. Through it all the club has stuck together. Even watching someone like Bjorn Engels in the celebration who has been out injured for a good while. We kept it together.

I still think Engels is a decent player. Probably the only one
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: itmustbe_it is! on July 26, 2020, 07:41:08 PM
Love Dean, had a wobble with him after the Man U match but now how could you not want him to stay and keep building .

All about the recruitment now
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on July 26, 2020, 07:46:19 PM
Quote from: Rudy65 on July 26, 2020, 07:38:21 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on July 26, 2020, 07:32:08 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on July 26, 2020, 07:27:50 PM
That last line "that one's for the old man"

yep, that was very touching and very telling. Through it all the club has stuck together. Even watching someone like Bjorn Engels in the celebration who has been out injured for a good while. We kept it together.

I still think Engels is a decent player. Probably the only one

Nah, I like him as well, I think it's eaxsy to forget that he's as mcu hof a kid as the rest of the defence and he's the only one that had to adapt to the UK as well.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: simboy on July 26, 2020, 07:48:01 PM
Quote from: Rudy65 on July 26, 2020, 07:38:21 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on July 26, 2020, 07:32:08 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on July 26, 2020, 07:27:50 PM
That last line "that one's for the old man"

yep, that was very touching and very telling. Through it all the club has stuck together. Even watching someone like Bjorn Engels in the celebration who has been out injured for a good while. We kept it together.

I still think Engels is a decent player. Probably the only one

3 clubs in three years. Make of that what you will.

However, Smith has done ok this season. Had the spine ripped out by loans and players too old for the prem and with a bit of luck, a great deal of work and encouraging some class performances he kept us up. 

Perhaps a bigger achievement than last year
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on July 26, 2020, 07:48:08 PM
Quote from: Chris Smith on July 26, 2020, 07:35:42 PM
On the BT interview when asked what he expected next for Jack he said” I expect him to get drunk with me tonight”.
Love it
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: steamer on July 26, 2020, 07:49:52 PM
I wanted him gone, good job I am not in charge.
Some ambitous signings and hopefully some lessons learnt by Dean and maybe next year a bit more to look forward too.
Have a deserved few beers and a earned break.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on July 26, 2020, 07:52:29 PM
Quote from: paul_e on July 26, 2020, 07:46:19 PM
Quote from: Rudy65 on July 26, 2020, 07:38:21 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on July 26, 2020, 07:32:08 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on July 26, 2020, 07:27:50 PM
That last line "that one's for the old man"

yep, that was very touching and very telling. Through it all the club has stuck together. Even watching someone like Bjorn Engels in the celebration who has been out injured for a good while. We kept it together.

I still think Engels is a decent player. Probably the only one

Nah, I like him as well, I think it's eaxsy to forget that he's as mcu hof a kid as the rest of the defence and he's the only one that had to adapt to the UK as well.
He is married to a Liverpool lass who's cousin I speak with from time to time ...havnt seen him lately as I've been keen to discuss Engels absence from the squad..
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: garyfouroaks on July 26, 2020, 07:55:52 PM
I am a veteran Villa fan who on this forum. I have always been quick to back managers, and slow to call for their sacking.

Dean Smith did a very good job securing Villa promotion last season, he did it with the fifth best team in the Division.

He was totally inexperienced at PL level – that was a big risk.

His signings have been unimpressive. Yet you can never be sure whether they were his, or “The Board’s”, and he had to recruit in numbers. The Championship side would have finished bottom. When you do recruit in numbers chemistry is an unknown.

I think that retaining him is too big a risk, and it would be kinder to all if he left this summer with a promotion and creditable survival campaign on his CV. His reputation enhanced, and untarnished.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Billy Walker on July 26, 2020, 07:56:57 PM
I have to say it,  Deano has balls of steel.  Like others , I wobbled, but Deano held firm in his belief, never wavered and showed astonishing, focused leadership throughout the season and - more tellingly - through the Covid crisis. 

Promotion, a Cup Final and now safety against the odds, Deano's worked three miracles in a very short space of time and he deserves nothing but huge praise.  I'm downing a pint right now and I raise it to the Boss. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 26, 2020, 07:58:33 PM
Quote from: paul_e on July 26, 2020, 07:46:19 PM
Quote from: Rudy65 on July 26, 2020, 07:38:21 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on July 26, 2020, 07:32:08 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on July 26, 2020, 07:27:50 PM
That last line "that one's for the old man"

yep, that was very touching and very telling. Through it all the club has stuck together. Even watching someone like Bjorn Engels in the celebration who has been out injured for a good while. We kept it together.

I still think Engels is a decent player. Probably the only one

Nah, I like him as well, I think it's eaxsy to forget that he's as mcu hof a kid as the rest of the defence and he's the only one that had to adapt to the UK as well.

He was good up to November. I actually thought he played well in the cup final aswell considering it was only two weeks after the Spurs game.

I assume though he's told DS he wants out which is why he hasn't been making the bench lately. If we sign another CB he seems the obvious one to go.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 26, 2020, 07:59:03 PM
He's been injured for ages now
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: N'ZMAV on July 26, 2020, 07:59:45 PM
not convinced - but job done. I thought we was dead and buried.

Now all we need to do it get another 8 good players for the first team, and we'll be ok.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan For Life on July 26, 2020, 08:04:17 PM
I’d keep him on, he deserves to build on what he started. The recruitment this summer is going to be huge, we need to sign players with a bit of footballing nous. We don’t seems able to close matches down and that has to be fixed. Late goals have killed us too many times.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: N'ZMAV on July 26, 2020, 08:05:05 PM
Quote from: Villan For Life on July 26, 2020, 08:04:17 PM
I’d keep him on, he deserves to build on what he started. The recruitment this summer is going to be huge, we need to sign players with a bit of footballing nous. We don’t seems able to close matches down and that has to be fixed. Late goals have killed us too many times.
yeah - he's earned another go next season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 26, 2020, 08:07:04 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/QRghIi2.gif?noredirect)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on July 26, 2020, 08:09:20 PM
Quote from: garyfouroaks on July 26, 2020, 07:55:52 PM
I am a veteran Villa fan who on this forum. I have always been quick to back managers, and slow to call for their sacking.

Dean Smith did a very good job securing Villa promotion last season, he did it with the fifth best team in the Division.

He was totally inexperienced at PL level – that was a big risk.

His signings have been unimpressive. Yet you can never be sure whether they were his, or “The Board’s”, and he had to recruit in numbers. The Championship side would have finished bottom. When you do recruit in numbers chemistry is an unknown.

I think that retaining him is too big a risk, and it would be kinder to all if he left this summer with a promotion and creditable survival campaign on his CV. His reputation enhanced, and untarnished.


Who would you replace him with, though? I say keep him on. He deserves a chance to put right what went wrong this season having, hopefully, learned from his earlier mistakes and repeats/improves on the last four unbeaten games.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Louzie0 on July 26, 2020, 08:10:55 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on July 26, 2020, 08:07:04 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/QRghIi2.gif?noredirect)


Nanu nanu, Deano, we go forth & prosper.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 26, 2020, 08:12:25 PM
Get rid of someone who's performed two miracles in eighteen months for a club that would then have sacked their last seven managers. There'll be a queue round the block for that job.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 26, 2020, 08:18:21 PM
I'm not sure sacking the last X managers makes much difference, that applies to probably 99% of all clubs world wide.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: colin69 on July 26, 2020, 08:32:42 PM
He deserves to stay, but if we are in or near the relegation zone come Christmas/January time then a serious  re think needs to happen.
I get the feeling though that he will learn from this season and we will be ok.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brazilian Villain on July 26, 2020, 08:36:00 PM
Quote from: N'ZMAV on July 26, 2020, 08:05:05 PM
Quote from: Villan For Life on July 26, 2020, 08:04:17 PM
I’d keep him on, he deserves to build on what he started. The recruitment this summer is going to be huge, we need to sign players with a bit of footballing nous. We don’t seems able to close matches down and that has to be fixed. Late goals have killed us too many times.

yeah - he's earned another go next season.

I think we have to give him another go to see if we carry on the post restart form. To do otherwise would be a bit Watford. If the same mistakes are evident come Christmas then consider our options.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on July 26, 2020, 08:40:02 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on July 26, 2020, 07:58:33 PM
Quote from: paul_e on July 26, 2020, 07:46:19 PM
Quote from: Rudy65 on July 26, 2020, 07:38:21 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on July 26, 2020, 07:32:08 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on July 26, 2020, 07:27:50 PM
That last line "that one's for the old man"

yep, that was very touching and very telling. Through it all the club has stuck together. Even watching someone like Bjorn Engels in the celebration who has been out injured for a good while. We kept it together.

I still think Engels is a decent player. Probably the only one

Nah, I like him as well, I think it's eaxsy to forget that he's as mcu hof a kid as the rest of the defence and he's the only one that had to adapt to the UK as well.

He was good up to November. I actually thought he played well in the cup final aswell considering it was only two weeks after the Spurs game.

I assume though he's told DS he wants out which is why he hasn't been making the bench lately. If we sign another CB he seems the obvious one to go.

Can people stop quoting that post, 4 beers and half a bottle of red really wasn't helping my typing, turned on auto-correct now.  The official line on Engels is that he's been injured so unless anything more comes out I'm just going to go with that.

If he does want to go then of course we need a replacement but I'd honestly be happy to go into the season with a replacement for Taylor and Reina signed for another season as the only changes.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: gpbarr on July 26, 2020, 08:41:41 PM
Well no way they fire him now, he deserves to start next year. But there can be no emotion in it - 10 games in if we are not comfortably mid table they will need to jettison him. The game is not a romance, it’s a business
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on July 26, 2020, 08:46:46 PM
news outlets in Portugal claim former Benfica manager Bruno Lage is close to taking the job!!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 26, 2020, 08:49:26 PM
Deserves a crack at next season now. Well done Dean, now we need to get better and progress.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 26, 2020, 08:49:53 PM
Quote from: mr underhill on July 26, 2020, 08:46:46 PM
news outlets in Portugal claim former Benfica manager Bruno Lage is close to taking the job!!

His name has been mentioned a couple of times, eg when Bruce was sacked. If we'd gone down then he might have been on the radar, but not now I'm sure.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: West Derby Villan on July 26, 2020, 08:51:34 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 26, 2020, 08:12:25 PM
Get rid of someone who's performed two miracles in eighteen months for a club that would then have sacked their last seven managers. There'll be a queue round the block for that job.

Agree, what he’s achieved in the last 18 months is incredible
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 26, 2020, 09:07:55 PM
Without getting all I Know Something That You Don't, one day someone will write the story of just how deep we were in it during summer 2018. We'll never know how close we came to today being about celebrating promotion to the Championship.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 26, 2020, 09:25:19 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 26, 2020, 09:07:55 PM
Without getting all I Know Something That You Don't, one day someone will write the story of just how deep we were in it during summer 2018. We'll never know how close we came to today being about celebrating promotion to the Championship.

It's not exactly a secret that a club scraping around to borrow money from the corporate equivalent of Wonga to pay a tax bill is deep in the brown stuff. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on July 26, 2020, 09:26:25 PM
Thanks, Tony.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: London Villan on July 26, 2020, 09:28:17 PM
Edens and Swairis deserve a lot of credit too. Without them and a team of top notch accountants we’d be toast.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: N'ZMAV on July 26, 2020, 09:28:43 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 26, 2020, 09:07:55 PM
Without getting all I Know Something That You Don't, one day someone will write the story of just how deep we were in it during summer 2018. We'll never know how close we came to today being about celebrating promotion to the Championship.
I'd buy a copy if someone put it together
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: garyfouroaks on July 26, 2020, 09:28:59 PM
Quote from: Legion on July 26, 2020, 08:09:20 PM
Quote from: garyfouroaks on July 26, 2020, 07:55:52 PM
I am a veteran Villa fan who on this forum. I have always been quick to back managers, and slow to call for their sacking.

Dean Smith did a very good job securing Villa promotion last season, he did it with the fifth best team in the Division.

He was totally inexperienced at PL level – that was a big risk.

His signings have been unimpressive. Yet you can never be sure whether they were his, or “The Board’s”, and he had to recruit in numbers. The Championship side would have finished bottom. When you do recruit in numbers chemistry is an unknown.

I think that retaining him is too big a risk, and it would be kinder to all if he left this summer with a promotion and creditable survival campaign on his CV. His reputation enhanced, and untarnished.


Who would you replace him with, though? I say keep him on. He deserves a chance to put right what went wrong this season having, hopefully, learned from his earlier mistakes and repeats/improves on the last four unbeaten games.
Managerial appointments are about what is going to happen next, not what has happened before.

I read little into the bizarre mini-season of BCD games.

On the downside, our club has had too many managers in too short a space of time and that has created problems of its own. Against that, I have seen little to suggest that he is a Santos or Dyche.

As for who I would replace him with, that is not my job. There are people who are paid a lot of money to identify those who will "fit" a club's requirements.

As it stands, will Smith outgun Bielsa and Leeds, or the Baggies and Bilic in the transfer market?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 26, 2020, 09:32:54 PM
Quote from: garyfouroaks on July 26, 2020, 09:28:59 PM
Quote from: Legion on July 26, 2020, 08:09:20 PM
Quote from: garyfouroaks on July 26, 2020, 07:55:52 PM
I am a veteran Villa fan who on this forum. I have always been quick to back managers, and slow to call for their sacking.

Dean Smith did a very good job securing Villa promotion last season, he did it with the fifth best team in the Division.

He was totally inexperienced at PL level – that was a big risk.

His signings have been unimpressive. Yet you can never be sure whether they were his, or “The Board’s”, and he had to recruit in numbers. The Championship side would have finished bottom. When you do recruit in numbers chemistry is an unknown.

I think that retaining him is too big a risk, and it would be kinder to all if he left this summer with a promotion and creditable survival campaign on his CV. His reputation enhanced, and untarnished.


Who would you replace him with, though? I say keep him on. He deserves a chance to put right what went wrong this season having, hopefully, learned from his earlier mistakes and repeats/improves on the last four unbeaten games.
Managerial appointments are about what is going to happen next, not what has happened before.

I read little into the bizarre mini-season of BCD games.

On the downside, our club has had too many managers in too short a space of time and that has created problems of its own. Against that, I have seen little to suggest that he is a Santos or Dyche.

As for who I would replace him with, that is not my job. There are people who are paid a lot of money to identify those who will "fit" a club's requirements.

As it stands, will Smith outgun Bielsa and Leeds, or the Baggies and Bilic in the transfer market?

Can you give one reason why not? People talk about Bielsa like he's some managerial genius, but it's took him two years to do what Dean Smith did in seven months.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 26, 2020, 09:38:11 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 26, 2020, 09:32:54 PM
Can you give one reason why not? People talk about Bielsa like he's some managerial genius, but it's took him two years to do what Dean Smith did in seven months.
Managerial genius isn't wholly measured by 'how does he match up to Dean Smith?'.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 26, 2020, 09:40:36 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on July 26, 2020, 09:38:11 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 26, 2020, 09:32:54 PM
Can you give one reason why not? People talk about Bielsa like he's some managerial genius, but it's took him two years to do what Dean Smith did in seven months.
Managerial genius isn't wholly measured by 'how does he match up to Dean Smith?'.

Then it's a good job nobody ever said it does, isn't it? But what someone had done, and this is why I was mentioning them both, was to make a comparison between him and Bielsa in the post I was answering.


Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KevinGage on July 26, 2020, 09:41:39 PM
Biesla had a fair body of work behind him even before matching Smudger's achievement this year.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Louzie0 on July 26, 2020, 09:41:51 PM
I saw his interview after today’s game.
If ever there was an example of, I took what we had and we did it anyway, that was it.
I’m in awe.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on July 26, 2020, 09:43:41 PM
There’s a story floating tonight that we are going to appoint Bruno Lage as Head Coach.  No me neither.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 26, 2020, 09:44:08 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 26, 2020, 09:40:36 PM
Then it's a good job nobody ever said it does, isn't it? But what someone had done, and this is why I was mentioning them both, was to make a comparison between him and Bielsa in the post I was answering.
It's fair to say that Bielsa's career to date is superior to Dean's.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: German James on July 26, 2020, 09:44:21 PM
I like Dean Smith and I think he'll be OK as long as he's given the tools to do the job. If - and it's admittedly a huge 'if' - Jack can be persuaded to stay and sensible signings are made, I'd let him at least start the next season. Otherwise, we'll be trying to rebuild (again) AND trying to stay up and I think both would be beyond him. It was nearly beyond him this year.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 26, 2020, 09:48:04 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on July 26, 2020, 09:44:08 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 26, 2020, 09:40:36 PM
Then it's a good job nobody ever said it does, isn't it? But what someone had done, and this is why I was mentioning them both, was to make a comparison between him and Bielsa in the post I was answering.
It's fair to say that Bielsa's career to date is superior to Dean's.

It's also fair to say that I couldn't give a fuck.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on July 26, 2020, 09:49:35 PM
Smith is at the start of his. Bielsa is near the end.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eric woolban woolban on July 26, 2020, 09:50:28 PM
So now the season is over we obtained our points as follows:
For teams 1st to 7th. 14 games played. Zero points at home. One point away. Total of ONE point.
8th to 14th. 14 games played.  14 points at home. 5 points away. Total of NINETEEN points.
And 15th to 20th. 10 games played.  10 points at home. 5 points away. Total of FIFTEEN points.

Its as clear as day that we need a few more points off the top teams.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on July 26, 2020, 09:50:49 PM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on July 26, 2020, 09:43:41 PM
There’s a story floating tonight that we are going to appoint Bruno Lage as Head Coach.  No me neither.

I've just read the same story, it's in the Daily Express so I'd file under 'complete shite'.  We replace Dean Smith with a guy no-one has heard of?  I can't see it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 26, 2020, 09:52:20 PM
Quote from: Legion on July 26, 2020, 09:49:35 PM
Smith is at the start of his. Bielsa is near the end.

Indeed, Bielsa has 20 years on Smith.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on July 26, 2020, 09:52:52 PM
Didn’t someone on here say he was going whether we survived or not.  Now that Dean has kept us up I’ve no idea whether to keep him or not.  But I’m thinking we need continuity after the last three seasons.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on July 26, 2020, 09:53:16 PM
Quote from: Newby on July 26, 2020, 09:50:49 PM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on July 26, 2020, 09:43:41 PM
There’s a story floating tonight that we are going to appoint Bruno Lage as Head Coach.  No me neither.

I've just read the same story, it's in the Daily Express so I'd file under 'complete shite'.  We replace Dean Smith with a guy no-one has heard of?  I can't see it.

Load of bollocks.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: nodge on July 26, 2020, 09:54:13 PM
Hopefully he’ll follow Sir Graham in getting us up, just about keeping us up, then finishing 2nd. I’d take that now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TonyD on July 26, 2020, 09:57:09 PM
I’m struggling to talk as I’m trying to eat this big pie.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: garyfouroaks on July 26, 2020, 09:57:39 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 26, 2020, 09:32:54 PM
Quote from: garyfouroaks on July 26, 2020, 09:28:59 PM
Quote from: Legion on July 26, 2020, 08:09:20 PM
Quote from: garyfouroaks on July 26, 2020, 07:55:52 PM
I am a veteran Villa fan who on this forum. I have always been quick to back managers, and slow to call for their sacking.

Dean Smith did a very good job securing Villa promotion last season, he did it with the fifth best team in the Division.

He was totally inexperienced at PL level – that was a big risk.

His signings have been unimpressive. Yet you can never be sure whether they were his, or “The Board’s”, and he had to recruit in numbers. The Championship side would have finished bottom. When you do recruit in numbers chemistry is an unknown.

I think that retaining him is too big a risk, and it would be kinder to all if he left this summer with a promotion and creditable survival campaign on his CV. His reputation enhanced, and untarnished.


Who would you replace him with, though? I say keep him on. He deserves a chance to put right what went wrong this season having, hopefully, learned from his earlier mistakes and repeats/improves on the last four unbeaten games.
Managerial appointments are about what is going to happen next, not what has happened before.

I read little into the bizarre mini-season of BCD games.

On the downside, our club has had too many managers in too short a space of time and that has created problems of its own. Against that, I have seen little to suggest that he is a Santos or Dyche.

As for who I would replace him with, that is not my job. There are people who are paid a lot of money to identify those who will "fit" a club's requirements.

As it stands, will Smith outgun Bielsa and Leeds, or the Baggies and Bilic in the transfer market?

Can you give one reason why not? People talk about Bielsa like he's some managerial genius, but it's took him two years to do what Dean Smith did in seven months.
Bielsa has credibility at the highest levels for the work he did internationally with Argentina and Chile, and for his club stints at Athletic Bilbao, Spain, Marseille and Lille, France, Lazio, Italy. He hasn't a perfect record- but who has? It also buys you contacts.

Similarly, Bilic's international record with Croatia and club PL record at West Ham is impressive.

When players. and agents, choose clubs, confidence in the manager is vital. I am suggesting that however good a job Smith has done at taking us up, and keeping us up ( just), players are unlikely to pick Smith ahead of the other two.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on July 26, 2020, 09:57:58 PM
Quote from: Drummond on July 26, 2020, 05:59:28 PM
Promotion, Cup Final, secures place in Premier League.

Well done Dean!

Delivered the goods when it's mattered. Top man.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on July 26, 2020, 09:59:57 PM
Fair play to him. Not long ago I thought he had lost the players and we were toast. Now it’s clear he had a good lockdown / post lockdown and kept the squad behind him and the nature of the points we have won in these last 4 has shown he’s learned how to set the team up against better teams and to win tight games.

The right thing from here IMO is for him to have a crack next season but no fannying around if it looks like another season hanging around in the relegation zone.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 26, 2020, 10:01:47 PM
Quote from: garyfouroaks on July 26, 2020, 09:57:39 PM

Bielsa has credibility at the highest levels for the work he did internationally with Argentina and Chile, and for his club stints at Athletic Bilbao, Spain, Marseille and Lille, France, Lazio, Italy. He hasn't a perfect record- but who has? It also buys you contacts.

Similarly, Bilic's international record with Croatia and club PL record at West Ham is impressive.

When players. and agents, choose clubs, confidence in the manager is vital. I am suggesting that however good a job Smith has done at taking us up, and keeping us up ( just), players are unlikely to pick Smith ahead of the other two.



And I doubt if the sort of players we're going to be looking at would think twice about Leeds or the other lot.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on July 26, 2020, 10:02:16 PM
It was good to listen to him talking about the culture of the club and how this needed building as we had a load of new players.  The culture is now in place and we can move forward.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: garyfouroaks on July 26, 2020, 10:03:34 PM
Quote from: Legion on July 26, 2020, 09:49:35 PM
Smith is at the start of his. Bielsa is near the end.
True.

Will Smith end up having successfully managed Argentina and Chile internationally, and Athletic Bilbao, Marseille, and Lazio at club level?

All that matters is next season. I am not saying that Bilic or Bielsa should replace Smith, I am saying that in a very tough league, two credible opposition managers are competing against us in the transfer market. And it is our success, or failure in the transfer market which will define next season. Smith has proved that his managerial skills on their own are not enough.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on July 26, 2020, 10:04:05 PM
Smith... I have never wanted a manager to succed as badly as I have with him but ive also had doubts about him at varying points throughout the season, major doubts at some points, but he has delivered on every target set for him were more experienced 'expert' managers have failed.

Part of me still wants him to go and pass the mantle on to somebody else but thats purely because he will forever go down in our history as the guy that got us back and maintained our league status for somebody else to build on.
I think im just a bit worried that it could turn to shit and what hes achieved be forgotten.

Right now i fucking love the bloke and would love nothing more than him to lead us to midtable next season but I just dunno. Im way too fucked to be thinking this in depth about it after such a draining day.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on July 26, 2020, 10:04:28 PM
If you seriously think Leeds and the fucking baggies are going to be a bigger draw for players in the next couple of months than we are then you really need to have a word with yourself.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eric woolban woolban on July 26, 2020, 10:05:46 PM
Quote from: garyfouroaks on July 26, 2020, 10:03:34 PM
Quote from: Legion on July 26, 2020, 09:49:35 PM
Smith is at the start of his. Bielsa is near the end.
True.

Will Smith end up having successfully managed Argentina and Chile internationally, and Athletic Bilbao, Marseille, and Lazio at club level?

All that matters is next season. I am not saying that Bilic or Bielsa should replace Smith, I am saying that in a very tough league, two credible opposition managers are competing against us in the transfer market. And it is our success, or failure in the transfer market which will define next season. Smith has proved that his managerial skills on their own are not enough.
He's certainly getting jiggy with it tonight.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ozzjim on July 26, 2020, 10:07:13 PM
Bilic is an awful manager that West Ham fans wanted out.

Bielsa is clearly a brilliant but slightly deranged manager that often burns himself out when under serious pressure.

I don't think Smith will get us into the top 4, but he's shown he has enough about him to tactically tighten us up. Him or since random Portuguese fella... I'll keep Smith
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on July 26, 2020, 10:08:13 PM
Quote from: paul_e on July 26, 2020, 10:04:28 PM
If you seriously think Leeds and the fucking baggies are going to be a bigger draw for players in the next couple of months than we are then you really need to have a word with yourself.

'kin right.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dogtanian on July 26, 2020, 10:08:49 PM
We need to keep Smith.  He hasn’t been perfect this season, but it’s his first season in the Premier League and I expect him to keep improving.

He didn’t put us in the situation last summer, if anything he has suffered by getting us promoted a year too soon.  We had no choice but to spend on quantity to ensure we had a squad, and the real test will be what we do in this next window.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on July 26, 2020, 10:09:38 PM
Quote from: paul_e on July 26, 2020, 10:04:28 PM
If you seriously think Leeds and the fucking baggies are going to be a bigger draw for players in the next couple of months than we are then you really need to have a word with yourself.

Quite.

Could you imagine whoever the DoF is at the Olbiyun showing a player around the Hawthorns, where you need to be literally stood next to the ground to know it's there, and then saying, "But Slaven Bilic is our manager!" before the player gets in his taxi and drives past Villa Park, where you can see it from miles around.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on July 26, 2020, 10:09:56 PM
Quote from: ozzjim on July 26, 2020, 10:07:13 PM
Bilic is an awful manager that West Ham fans wanted out.

Bielsa is clearly a brilliant but slightly deranged manager that often burns himself out when under serious pressure.

I don't think Smith will get us into the top 4, but he's shown he has enough about him to tactically tighten us up. Him or since random Portuguese fella... I'll keep Smith

Top 14 would do for me next season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 26, 2020, 10:10:33 PM
Bielsa you could argue was saved another embarrassment by the Covid break. If he stretches his team to the limit in the PL then they will struggle at the most critical time; at the end of the season. Leeds won’t suddenly come in and tear up the division. Bielsa is legendary manager many, many years ago. But as we are seeing also to a degree from Ancelotti it means nothing at all if you cannot get your team to play to a high standard in the PL.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: garyfouroaks on July 26, 2020, 10:10:55 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 26, 2020, 10:01:47 PM
And I doubt if the sort of players we're going to be looking at would think twice about Leeds or the other lot.
And therein lies the rub.

Who are we/should we be, looking at, realistically?

Who will Bilic and Bielsa be looking at?

Smith, Bielsa, Bilic - who has the better contacts? Not for signing the best name players, but the ones who could be the next best name players. How many Argentinian coaches and scouts does Smith know?  How many PL grade players was Bilic unable to sign because of the Porn Bros at West Ham? These are hardly marginal matters.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 26, 2020, 10:11:18 PM
That Benfica manager thing.

I've been extremely critical of Smith this season, and he's looked largely out of his depth over and over, but ultimately, he's kept us up, it would reflect terribly on the club to replace him now.

He at least deserves the chance to start next season, having been supported in the transfer market.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 26, 2020, 10:12:19 PM
Quote from: ozzjim on July 26, 2020, 10:07:13 PM
Bilic is an awful manager that West Ham fans wanted out.


He got West Ham to seventh in his first season there, and has now got WBA promoted.  Not sure how that really qualifies him as awful.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: garyfouroaks on July 26, 2020, 10:13:15 PM
Quote from: Dogtanian on July 26, 2020, 10:08:49 PM
We need to keep Smith.  He hasn’t been perfect this season, but it’s his first season in the Premier League and I expect him to keep improving.

He didn’t put us in the situation last summer, if anything he has suffered by getting us promoted a year too soon.  We had no choice but to spend on quantity to ensure we had a squad, and the real test will be what we do in this next window.
I agree with that last bit.

Would you trust Smith as the best man to exploit this summer's transfer window?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Gareth on July 26, 2020, 10:15:50 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 26, 2020, 09:32:54 PM
Quote from: garyfouroaks on July 26, 2020, 09:28:59 PM
Quote from: Legion on July 26, 2020, 08:09:20 PM
Quote from: garyfouroaks on July 26, 2020, 07:55:52 PM
I am a veteran Villa fan who on this forum. I have always been quick to back managers, and slow to call for their sacking.

Dean Smith did a very good job securing Villa promotion last season, he did it with the fifth best team in the Division.

He was totally inexperienced at PL level – that was a big risk.

His signings have been unimpressive. Yet you can never be sure whether they were his, or “The Board’s”, and he had to recruit in numbers. The Championship side would have finished bottom. When you do recruit in numbers chemistry is an unknown.

I think that retaining him is too big a risk, and it would be kinder to all if he left this summer with a promotion and creditable survival campaign on his CV. His reputation enhanced, and untarnished.


Who would you replace him with, though? I say keep him on. He deserves a chance to put right what went wrong this season having, hopefully, learned from his earlier mistakes and repeats/improves on the last four unbeaten games.
Managerial appointments are about what is going to happen next, not what has happened before.

I read little into the bizarre mini-season of BCD games.

On the downside, our club has had too many managers in too short a space of time and that has created problems of its own. Against that, I have seen little to suggest that he is a Santos or Dyche.

As for who I would replace him with, that is not my job. There are people who are paid a lot of money to identify those who will "fit" a club's requirements.

As it stands, will Smith outgun Bielsa and Leeds, or the Baggies and Bilic in the transfer market?

Can you give one reason why not? People talk about Bielsa like he's some managerial genius, but it's took him two years to do what Dean Smith did in seven months.

Bielsa will be gone by Christmas, in the Championship he has been fawned over but they will struggle like we have in Prem & as soon as the critics start he’ll flounce off
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 26, 2020, 10:15:51 PM
Quote from: garyfouroaks on July 26, 2020, 10:10:55 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 26, 2020, 10:01:47 PM
And I doubt if the sort of players we're going to be looking at would think twice about Leeds or the other lot.
And therein lies the rub.

Who are we/should we be, looking at, realistically?

Who will Bilic and Bielsa be looking at?

Smith, Bielsa, Bilic - who has the better contacts? Not for signing the best name players, but the ones who could be the next best name players. How many Argentinian coaches and scouts does Smith know?  How many PL grade players was Bilic unable to sign because of the Porn Bros at West Ham? These are hardly marginal matters.

Smith will have exactly the same contacts as the other two - that is to say every agent in the world who believes he has a player good enough for the Premier League. If we want a player we'll be after him, and the fact that his current manager used to know Bielsa twenty years ago isn't going to make a scrap of difference.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on July 26, 2020, 10:17:09 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on July 26, 2020, 10:11:18 PM
That Benfica manager thing.

I've been extremely critical of Smith this season, and he's looked largely out of his depth over and over, but ultimately, he's kept us up, it would reflect terribly on the club to replace him now.

He at least deserves the chance to start next season, having been supported in the transfer market.

I agree Paulie.  With the way the club is set up, removing Dean Smith if things don't go to plan, should not mean starting all over again and another manager coming in to inherit a load of another managers players because we are following a plan for continuity I believe.  This is the same as the way Brentford are doing it and is one of the reasons that frank has done so well since Dean left them.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: garyfouroaks on July 26, 2020, 10:23:45 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 26, 2020, 10:15:51 PM
`
Smith will have exactly the same contacts as the other two - that is to say every agent in the world who believes he has a player good enough for the Premier League. If we want a player we'll be after him, and the fact that his current manager used to know Bielsa twenty years ago isn't going to make a scrap of difference.
I totally disagree.

There is a world of difference between an agent ringing up, and someone who you have worked with successfully before, and whose judgement you trust, offering an opinion.

This is not about players twenty years ago, this is about established relationships with scouts, coaches and Presidents now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on July 26, 2020, 10:24:31 PM
Quote from: Risso on July 26, 2020, 10:12:19 PM
Quote from: ozzjim on July 26, 2020, 10:07:13 PM
Bilic is an awful manager that West Ham fans wanted out.


He got West Ham to seventh in his first season there, and has now got WBA promoted.  Not sure how that really qualifies him as awful.
quite so ...he is a clever guy and an astute manager
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 26, 2020, 10:26:13 PM
Quote from: garyfouroaks on July 26, 2020, 10:23:45 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 26, 2020, 10:15:51 PM
`
Smith will have exactly the same contacts as the other two - that is to say every agent in the world who believes he has a player good enough for the Premier League. If we want a player we'll be after him, and the fact that his current manager used to know Bielsa twenty years ago isn't going to make a scrap of difference.
I totally disagree.

There is a world of difference between an agent ringing up, and someone who you have worked with successfully before, and whose judgement you trust, offering an opinion.

This is not about players twenty years ago, this is about established relationships with scouts, coaches and Presidents now.

It's actually about money and the opportunity to progress, and I know which club out of the three wins that argument.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on July 26, 2020, 10:26:59 PM
Quote from: garyfouroaks on July 26, 2020, 10:23:45 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 26, 2020, 10:15:51 PM
`
Smith will have exactly the same contacts as the other two - that is to say every agent in the world who believes he has a player good enough for the Premier League. If we want a player we'll be after him, and the fact that his current manager used to know Bielsa twenty years ago isn't going to make a scrap of difference.
I totally disagree.

There is a world of difference between an agent ringing up, and someone who you have worked with successfully before, and whose judgement you trust, offering an opinion.

This is not about players twenty years ago, this is about established relationships with scouts, coaches and Presidents now.

Players and agents follow the money. Who has more? Us, Sandwell or Leeds?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on July 26, 2020, 10:27:08 PM
Dean Smith's post match quote "I thought we worked the pandemic well" might be misunderstood by some as being rather tactless.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on July 26, 2020, 10:30:04 PM
Quote from: garyfouroaks on July 26, 2020, 10:23:45 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 26, 2020, 10:15:51 PM
`
Smith will have exactly the same contacts as the other two - that is to say every agent in the world who believes he has a player good enough for the Premier League. If we want a player we'll be after him, and the fact that his current manager used to know Bielsa twenty years ago isn't going to make a scrap of difference.
I totally disagree.

There is a world of difference between an agent ringing up, and someone who you have worked with successfully before, and whose judgement you trust, offering an opinion.

This is not about players twenty years ago, this is about established relationships with scouts, coaches and Presidents now.

Let's just go back to watching Youtube and buy Bosco Balaban all over again.  Who gives a fuck what Bielsa knows or who Bilic knows.  This is about Villa and who we buy.  Last time I looked, we are bigger and better than either of their clubs.  We need players with Premier Division experience, we don 't really need a South American scout to look for those.  Leeds will sack Bielsa if they get off to a bad start.  It's what they do.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hipkiss92 on July 26, 2020, 10:30:16 PM
Cup Final and staying in the Premier League. We'd have all taken that on the opening day last year. Perhaps more nail biting than we would have wanted, but Smith has done everything asked of him, and definitely should be retained.

As for the nonesenese around Bielsa and Bilic having more contacts. This isn't 1970 anymore and the manager isn't responsible for every aspect of the club being run.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on July 26, 2020, 10:31:35 PM
Quote from: Ads on July 26, 2020, 10:26:59 PM
Quote from: garyfouroaks on July 26, 2020, 10:23:45 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 26, 2020, 10:15:51 PM
`
Smith will have exactly the same contacts as the other two - that is to say every agent in the world who believes he has a player good enough for the Premier League. If we want a player we'll be after him, and the fact that his current manager used to know Bielsa twenty years ago isn't going to make a scrap of difference.
I totally disagree.

There is a world of difference between an agent ringing up, and someone who you have worked with successfully before, and whose judgement you trust, offering an opinion.

This is not about players twenty years ago, this is about established relationships with scouts, coaches and Presidents now.

Players and agents follow the money. Who has more? Us, Sandwell or Leeds?


We should be a year ahead of those two after already having a Premier League season under our belt. Albion are not known for splashing the cash too much so I would say the pecking order regarding the three clubs is Villa, Leeds, Albion.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 26, 2020, 10:32:01 PM
Quote from: Newby on July 26, 2020, 10:30:04 PM
Leeds will sack Bielsa if they get off to a bad start.  It's what they do.
It also tends to be what we do.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on July 26, 2020, 10:33:36 PM
Percy saying the new manager story is bollocks.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 26, 2020, 10:35:20 PM
He will be told and he will be expecting that there will much less room for error next season. We need to make progress. I imagine we will again be provided significant funds to acquire the next level of player needed at the club with or without Jack being here. It’s ruthless because it has to be. But he absolutely deserves the chance to start next season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 26, 2020, 10:36:26 PM
Work with Bielsa or earn an extra million a year for 4 or 5 years, I know which option most players and agents will be interested in.

*Assuming those are the 2 options the player has
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on July 26, 2020, 10:37:04 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on July 26, 2020, 10:36:26 PM
Work with Bielsa or earn an extra million a year for 4 or 5 years, I know which option most players and agents will be interested in.

But he sits on bucket!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 26, 2020, 10:38:02 PM
Bella sticks her head in one, we win the bucket challenge as well.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TonyD on July 26, 2020, 10:45:50 PM
Smith is staying I reckon.

The big question is.............do we have enough time to buy a proper striker by 12th September?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on July 26, 2020, 10:46:55 PM
Quote from: Ads on July 26, 2020, 10:33:36 PM
Percy saying the new manager story is bollocks.

Well of course it is.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on July 26, 2020, 10:47:26 PM
Mission Accomplished for Dean, I really like the bloke, he’s astute, flexible and tactically sound. I really think most of the problems of this season have been down to the quality of the players he was given rather than his skills.

Still, I think given the deep pockets of the owners there may be better managers out there to move us forward next season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on July 26, 2020, 10:48:29 PM
Such as?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: passport1 on July 26, 2020, 10:52:59 PM
Supporters aren't  in a position to judge potential managers but they can certainly rate the current one. He isn't  good enough for this level.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on July 26, 2020, 10:54:29 PM
He has kept us up after getting us up against all odds.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on July 26, 2020, 10:55:56 PM
Quote from: PeterWithe on July 26, 2020, 10:47:26 PM
Mission Accomplished for Dean, I really like the bloke, he’s astute, flexible and tactically sound. I really think most of the problems of this season have been down to the quality of the players he was given rather than his skills.

Still, I think given the deep pockets of the owners there may be better managers out there to move us forward next season.

I don't agree with the bold bit and I don't Smith does either. Watch the post-match interview and he talks about needing to build a squad last summer and players having grown. i don't think for a second he'll be throwing anyone under the bus suggesting he didn't have a good enough squad.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: garyfouroaks on July 26, 2020, 11:02:29 PM
Quote from: Legion on July 26, 2020, 10:54:29 PM
He has kept us up after getting us up against all odds.
I am not anti- Smith, I am pro Villa.

His Championship credentials with a small club, and big club, are established. His Pl ability unknown. I agree with all of the caveats regarding last season. But is he the best qualified to take us forwards?

It seems likely we will lose Grealish, for a decent fee - spending that wisely will make or break us. Palace are in the same boat with Zaha.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: adrenachrome on July 26, 2020, 11:03:05 PM
Quote from: Ads on July 26, 2020, 10:33:36 PM
Percy saying the new manager story is bollocks.

Quote
John Percy
@JPercyTelegraph
·
42m
Replying to
@RW44avfc
Absolute rubbish. Dean will be manager next season and there should be no debate now
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on July 26, 2020, 11:10:39 PM
Quote from: paul_e on July 26, 2020, 10:55:56 PM
Quote from: PeterWithe on July 26, 2020, 10:47:26 PM
Mission Accomplished for Dean, I really like the bloke, he’s astute, flexible and tactically sound. I really think most of the problems of this season have been down to the quality of the players he was given rather than his skills.

Still, I think given the deep pockets of the owners there may be better managers out there to move us forward next season.

I don't agree with the bold bit and I don't Smith does either. Watch the post-match interview and he talks about needing to build a squad last summer and players having grown. i don't think for a second he'll be throwing anyone under the bus suggesting he didn't have a good enough squad.

It was quite clear he didn’t have a good enough squad, we would have targeted 40 points minimum and fell short. I wouldn’t be upset to see Dean in charge at the start of nest season but it’s another huge recruitment job for players and what’s behind him isn’t good enough at present.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KevinGage on July 26, 2020, 11:16:58 PM
Quote from: Legion on July 26, 2020, 10:48:29 PM
Such as?

Go through the top 4-6 managers in most of the strongest leagues in Europe and then the top 3 in places like Portugal and the Netherlands for starters. I'd say there might be at least one or two out of that lot that (a) might be better than Deano and (b) might see VP as career progression.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KevinGage on July 26, 2020, 11:19:09 PM
I'll add that even if we're seriously looking at the Portuguese bloke or other candidates I hope the club wouldn't leak something like this so soon after we've ensured survival.

Would be a bit classless.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 26, 2020, 11:30:25 PM
Quote from: adrenachrome on July 26, 2020, 11:03:05 PM
Quote from: Ads on July 26, 2020, 10:33:36 PM
Percy saying the new manager story is bollocks.

Quote
John Percy
@JPercyTelegraph
·
42m
Replying to
@RW44avfc
Absolute rubbish. Dean will be manager next season and there should be no debate now

If Percy is saying it, it's kosher.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 26, 2020, 11:32:04 PM
I'm gutted we aren't getting a manager that was setting Lambert style records at his last club.

*Obviously he'll turn out to be brilliant at his next club.

**Lange I mean, Lambert will be as shit as ever.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on July 26, 2020, 11:32:54 PM
Talking of a new striker how about Tammy?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on July 26, 2020, 11:43:57 PM
Quote from: KevinGage on July 26, 2020, 11:19:09 PM
I'll add that even if we're seriously looking at the Portuguese bloke or other candidates I hope the club wouldn't leak something like this so soon after we've ensured survival.

Would be a bit classless.

Jorge Mendes.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ROBBO on July 27, 2020, 12:36:48 AM
Smith will not be replaced in the short term but he will need some decent results early on, the owners won't be as patient this time around. Thought from the reaction of the players they are a pretty tight bunch, Jon McGinn was almost back to his best.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ozzjim on July 27, 2020, 12:45:53 AM
Smith earned the chance to take this forward by the way he has tightened the defence and found a way to grind results. Replace our front 3 with better players, get Heaton back in goal and buy a top quality box to box midfielder to replace Jack and we will be better next season. Keep Jack too, and we will be even stronger.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Monty on July 27, 2020, 01:09:56 AM
Of course he'll be in charge beginning of next season. I'm just not convinced next year will be anything other than a struggle with him to be brutally honest - all season we lacked any sort of real identity in our play, and when we got a run in at the death it was based on skin-of-teeth, siege defending of the kind that makes me wonder if those advocating for Allardyce didn't get their wish in the end, in a way. Not to diminish this, or to say that I'm not really fond of Deano, I really am. I just remain unconvinced. But perhaps that's all for another day.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 27, 2020, 01:11:20 AM
Bruno Lange was a joke at Benfica. There's about a hundred better managers in europe than him.

Quote
On 29 June 2020, Lage made his position available after equalizing Benfica's worst ever series of results – 2 wins in 13 matches in the 2000–01 season[22][23] – and establishing a record of 5 consecutive matches without a win at Estádio da Luz, which included defeats to Braga and Santa Clara

They also lost 3-0 to Maritimo which was his last game there.

DS will be here start of next season. Up to him how long from that point. Must improve his flexibility regarding our shape and formation mid match as so often we're too slow to do anything and better sides punish us.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on July 27, 2020, 01:14:59 AM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on July 27, 2020, 01:11:20 AM
Bruno Lange was a joke at Benfica. There's about a hundred better managers in europe than him.

Quote
On 29 June 2020, Lage made his position available after equalizing Benfica's worst ever series of results – 2 wins in 13 matches in the 2000–01 season[22][23] – and establishing a record of 5 consecutive matches without a win at Estádio da Luz, which included defeats to Braga and Santa Clara

They also lost 3-0 to Maritimo which was his last game there.

DS will be here start of next season. Up to him how long from that point.

Saw something suggesting Sawaris is buying a stake in a portuguese side and this guy is actually being lined up for them, which makes more sense.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Monty on July 27, 2020, 01:16:26 AM
Quote from: paul_e on July 27, 2020, 01:14:59 AM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on July 27, 2020, 01:11:20 AM
Bruno Lange was a joke at Benfica. There's about a hundred better managers in europe than him.

Quote
On 29 June 2020, Lage made his position available after equalizing Benfica's worst ever series of results – 2 wins in 13 matches in the 2000–01 season[22][23] – and establishing a record of 5 consecutive matches without a win at Estádio da Luz, which included defeats to Braga and Santa Clara

They also lost 3-0 to Maritimo which was his last game there.

DS will be here start of next season. Up to him how long from that point.

Saw something suggesting Sawaris is buying a stake in a portuguese side and this guy is actually being lined up for them, which makes more sense.

Yes, at Vitoria Guimaraes.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 27, 2020, 01:17:15 AM
Quote from: paul_e on July 27, 2020, 01:14:59 AM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on July 27, 2020, 01:11:20 AM
Bruno Lange was a joke at Benfica. There's about a hundred better managers in europe than him.

Quote
On 29 June 2020, Lage made his position available after equalizing Benfica's worst ever series of results – 2 wins in 13 matches in the 2000–01 season[22][23] – and establishing a record of 5 consecutive matches without a win at Estádio da Luz, which included defeats to Braga and Santa Clara

They also lost 3-0 to Maritimo which was his last game there.

DS will be here start of next season. Up to him how long from that point.

Saw something suggesting Sawaris is buying a stake in a portuguese side and this guy is actually being lined up for them, which makes more sense.

Yeah Victoria Guimaraes. I've seen a few games and they're an exciting team with some good young players, were in Arsenal's group in the europa and gave them two hard games.

Marcus Edwards who came through Spurs youth team is there and had a good debut season so can see him being a transfer target if we're going to form some sort of link to them.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 27, 2020, 01:17:40 AM
Quote from: Monty on July 27, 2020, 01:16:26 AM
Yes, at Vitoria Guimaraes.

A name from our European past.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on July 27, 2020, 01:40:04 AM
From the Grauniad :

Quote
Smith will be in charge of Villa next season. Meanwhile, Nassef Sawiris, one of Villa’s billionaire owners, is to expand his stable by buying a stake in the Portuguese club Vitória de Guimarães. There are plans for the former Benfica manager Bruno Lage to join that club’s coaching staff.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 27, 2020, 01:56:16 AM
Quote from: Monty on July 27, 2020, 01:09:56 AM
Of course he'll be in charge beginning of next season. I'm just not convinced next year will be anything other than a struggle with him to be brutally honest - all season we lacked any sort of real identity in our play, and when we got a run in at the death it was based on skin-of-teeth, siege defending of the kind that makes me wonder if those advocating for Allardyce didn't get their wish in the end, in a way. Not to diminish this, or to say that I'm not really fond of Deano, I really am. I just remain unconvinced. But perhaps that's all for another day.

Fucking hell, Monty. Tonight, really? This will be all we'll be reading for months to come. Not tonight, please!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 27, 2020, 01:57:17 AM
Quote from: garyfouroaks on July 26, 2020, 09:57:39 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 26, 2020, 09:32:54 PM
Quote from: garyfouroaks on July 26, 2020, 09:28:59 PM
Quote from: Legion on July 26, 2020, 08:09:20 PM
Quote from: garyfouroaks on July 26, 2020, 07:55:52 PM
I am a veteran Villa fan who on this forum. I have always been quick to back managers, and slow to call for their sacking.

Dean Smith did a very good job securing Villa promotion last season, he did it with the fifth best team in the Division.

He was totally inexperienced at PL level – that was a big risk.

His signings have been unimpressive. Yet you can never be sure whether they were his, or “The Board’s”, and he had to recruit in numbers. The Championship side would have finished bottom. When you do recruit in numbers chemistry is an unknown.

I think that retaining him is too big a risk, and it would be kinder to all if he left this summer with a promotion and creditable survival campaign on his CV. His reputation enhanced, and untarnished.


Who would you replace him with, though? I say keep him on. He deserves a chance to put right what went wrong this season having, hopefully, learned from his earlier mistakes and repeats/improves on the last four unbeaten games.
Managerial appointments are about what is going to happen next, not what has happened before.

I read little into the bizarre mini-season of BCD games.

On the downside, our club has had too many managers in too short a space of time and that has created problems of its own. Against that, I have seen little to suggest that he is a Santos or Dyche.

As for who I would replace him with, that is not my job. There are people who are paid a lot of money to identify those who will "fit" a club's requirements.

As it stands, will Smith outgun Bielsa and Leeds, or the Baggies and Bilic in the transfer market?

Can you give one reason why not? People talk about Bielsa like he's some managerial genius, but it's took him two years to do what Dean Smith did in seven months.
Bielsa has credibility at the highest levels for the work he did internationally with Argentina and Chile, and for his club stints at Athletic Bilbao, Spain, Marseille and Lille, France, Lazio, Italy. He hasn't a perfect record- but who has? It also buys you contacts.

Similarly, Bilic's international record with Croatia and club PL record at West Ham is impressive.

When players. and agents, choose clubs, confidence in the manager is vital. I am suggesting that however good a job Smith has done at taking us up, and keeping us up ( just), players are unlikely to pick Smith ahead of the other two.



He managed Lazio for two days.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 27, 2020, 01:59:25 AM


Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 27, 2020, 01:59:30 AM
He was unbeaten as Lazio manager. A phenomenal spell.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Matt C on July 27, 2020, 01:59:52 AM
Smith will stay, rightly, and I expect he’ll get massive backing in the transfer market. With that comes greater expectation and reduced patience. I don’t think ‘Suso’ is on quite such sound footing.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 27, 2020, 02:02:21 AM
Prediction: the space occupied by a Venn diagram between the straight-talking, no-nonsense, zero-bullshit, hardnosed, success-craving miniature Roy Keane H&V posters and the Bruno Lage experts to narrow over the next 48 hours.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Monty on July 27, 2020, 02:05:27 AM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on July 27, 2020, 01:56:16 AM
Quote from: Monty on July 27, 2020, 01:09:56 AM
Of course he'll be in charge beginning of next season. I'm just not convinced next year will be anything other than a struggle with him to be brutally honest - all season we lacked any sort of real identity in our play, and when we got a run in at the death it was based on skin-of-teeth, siege defending of the kind that makes me wonder if those advocating for Allardyce didn't get their wish in the end, in a way. Not to diminish this, or to say that I'm not really fond of Deano, I really am. I just remain unconvinced. But perhaps that's all for another day.

Fucking hell, Monty. Tonight, really? This will be all we'll be reading for months to come. Not tonight, please!

Ha, I mean that's fair enough! Just saying what I think. To be honest, it's nice to even be thinking about the Villa without despair and ennui so Smith gets a lot of credit for that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 27, 2020, 02:11:49 AM
Quote from: Monty on July 27, 2020, 02:05:27 AM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on July 27, 2020, 01:56:16 AM
Quote from: Monty on July 27, 2020, 01:09:56 AM
Of course he'll be in charge beginning of next season. I'm just not convinced next year will be anything other than a struggle with him to be brutally honest - all season we lacked any sort of real identity in our play, and when we got a run in at the death it was based on skin-of-teeth, siege defending of the kind that makes me wonder if those advocating for Allardyce didn't get their wish in the end, in a way. Not to diminish this, or to say that I'm not really fond of Deano, I really am. I just remain unconvinced. But perhaps that's all for another day.

Fucking hell, Monty. Tonight, really? This will be all we'll be reading for months to come. Not tonight, please!

Ha, I mean that's fair enough! Just saying what I think. To be honest, it's nice to even be thinking about the Villa without despair and ennui so Smith gets a lot of credit for that.

Quite. We all have doubts, but when the water just turned to wine let's just get pissed!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 27, 2020, 06:46:41 AM
Smith deserves to continue, I really hope that he has learnt from this season in respect of recruitment and game management.
It has been a miraculous recovery.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on July 27, 2020, 06:50:58 AM
I agree but too close for comfort. Changes needed somewhere within the management structure.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ozzjim on July 27, 2020, 07:01:50 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on July 27, 2020, 06:46:41 AM
Smith deserves to continue, I really hope that he has learnt from this season in respect of recruitment and game management.
It has been a miraculous recovery.


I will cut him a lot of slack with recruitment, with how much we had to do on the budget last summer to get a squad together and stay up its an achievement. Add in losing a top keeper and your best striker in 5 minutes half way through, he's done bloody well to turn it round.

On struggling, he's shown that he can get us into winning positions, he's shown he can manage tactically to tighten the way we play, he's improved Konsa, Luiz, Targett etc through the season. I really hope we buy the players that can help him take chances up top that reduce the pressure next season
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: JJ-AV on July 27, 2020, 07:33:08 AM
Love Dean and Up the Villa!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: andyh on July 27, 2020, 07:41:36 AM
I wanted him originally. I thought he was the perfect man for us.
This season I have gradually changed my mind and in the period between Christmas and the lockdown I thought the job was too big for him, the team was disarray and that he should be relieved of his duties.

But.

The job he has done since the restart and especially the last 4 games is quite incredible.
I know the first part of the restart was not brilliant, but it laid the groundwork for that final push.
The players have grown into this division as has Smith and with some quality additions, some careful pruning of the squad, I think we can be much better next season.

This is a case where the man really does ‘deserve’ to take us into next season, god knows he’s earned it.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: garyfouroaks on July 27, 2020, 08:05:20 AM
Quote from: Monty on July 27, 2020, 01:09:56 AM
Of course he'll be in charge beginning of next season. I'm just not convinced next year will be anything other than a struggle with him to be brutally honest - all season we lacked any sort of real identity in our play, and when we got a run in at the death it was based on skin-of-teeth, siege defending of the kind that makes me wonder if those advocating for Allardyce didn't get their wish in the end, in a way. Not to diminish this, or to say that I'm not really fond of Deano, I really am. I just remain unconvinced. But perhaps that's all for another day.
I feel the same.

And did he keep us up? Or did Bournemouth and Watford's shocking implosion do that? In the last two seasons we have been the fifth best side in the Championship , and 17th best in the Prem. That is hardly positive momentum. Yes, Smith did do well to achieve promotion- from a division he knew well, and in the play off lottery. I am not belittling his achievements, but the Villa job is not work experience.

He did not make the same impact that Dyche did when he took Burnley up, or Howe when he took Bournemouth up. The team has not been unlucky this season, it has not been good enough. Are we in a much better position to recruit this summer than last? What style of play are we offering new recruits?

Grealish is likely to go. Is Smith the man to replace him and use the money wisely?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on July 27, 2020, 08:21:57 AM
I'm honestly dumbfounded that people still want to sack him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: rob_bridge on July 27, 2020, 08:29:44 AM
As every I will listen to realistic propositions if people want him gone. Baer minimum this year was to stay up and just about managed it. Lob in the League Cup final just about par for the course.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on July 27, 2020, 08:30:09 AM
The only thing I know right now is I never want to experience what we just experienced yesterday (and this season in general, cup final aside) again.

The elation of last-gasp survival aside, if it had gone the other way it would have been completely crushing. I don't really care about Bournemouth or their fans either way, but nonetheless it's easy to imagine how they must feel today, and I've no desire to feel that way again.

As things stand currently, I fear we'll be right back here this time next year unless we change something (the transfer strategy under Suso, the team management under Smith, or both).
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: garyfouroaks on July 27, 2020, 08:44:28 AM
Quote from: Drummond on July 27, 2020, 08:21:57 AM
I'm honestly dumbfounded that people still want to sack him.

Why?

In business it is commonplace to hire managers and experts to do a job, a job they do well, and then recruit someone else for the next job.

Ironically, were Smith to go now, his stock would be far higher than if he was sacked for a second dismal PL campaign later on.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: fbriai on July 27, 2020, 08:52:49 AM
I wouldn't change anything, personally. I wouldn't have done had we gone down either. I was worried when he took over that the job might be too much for him; a scar from the Graham Turner era, I think, but he soon dispelled that.

There aren't many players in the squad that have depreciated in value from when we brought them in and they look more and more like a cohesive unit. There's clearly a good spirit there and they all seem to respect the boss as well. The objective this season was making sure we stayed up. He's done that. Now we can invest again in the summer and kick-on.

At this point, I can't think of a better fit as manager for us. He's one of us, he gets the club completely and he's a top man to boot. It was his first season in the top flight and he himself openly admits that he has been learning as he's gone along.

Getting rid of him now would feel like getting rid of SGT after the first season back in Division 1. I'd back him and let him get on with the job. Besides, changing him would be a big gamble, especially with less than 6 weeks until the start of the season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: wince on July 27, 2020, 08:54:51 AM
Quote from: paul_e on July 26, 2020, 10:04:28 PM
If you seriously think Leeds and the fucking baggies are going to be a bigger draw for players in the next couple of months than we are then you really need to have a word with yourself.

This. Fuck em.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hipkiss92 on July 27, 2020, 08:56:32 AM
Quote from: garyfouroaks on July 27, 2020, 08:05:20 AM
Quote from: Monty on July 27, 2020, 01:09:56 AM
Of course he'll be in charge beginning of next season. I'm just not convinced next year will be anything other than a struggle with him to be brutally honest - all season we lacked any sort of real identity in our play, and when we got a run in at the death it was based on skin-of-teeth, siege defending of the kind that makes me wonder if those advocating for Allardyce didn't get their wish in the end, in a way. Not to diminish this, or to say that I'm not really fond of Deano, I really am. I just remain unconvinced. But perhaps that's all for another day.
I feel the same.

And did he keep us up? Or did Bournemouth and Watford's shocking implosion do that? In the last two seasons we have been the fifth best side in the Championship , and 17th best in the Prem. That is hardly positive momentum. Yes, Smith did do well to achieve promotion- from a division he knew well, and in the play off lottery. I am not belittling his achievements, but the Villa job is not work experience.

He did not make the same impact that Dyche did when he took Burnley up, or Howe when he took Bournemouth up. The team has not been unlucky this season, it has not been good enough. Are we in a much better position to recruit this summer than last? What style of play are we offering new recruits?

Grealish is likely to go. Is Smith the man to replace him and use the money wisely?

Howe took Bournemouth from League Two to the top flight, kept a similar group of players and momentum through the league and finished 16th in their 1st season in the PL. Dyche got relegated 1st time of asking and has impressed since Burnley returned to the top flight.

No reason Smith couldn't take us to a similar level or beyond with another year of investment.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan82 on July 27, 2020, 08:56:46 AM
Dean Smith has 100% earned another crack.

However, there needs to be progress next season. We need to be winning more games and grinding out more draws.We lost 21 games this season, that needs to be down to less than 16 next season minimum - say 11 wins and 11 draws, what Newcastle did to finish 13th this season.

Progress next year would be finishing north of 14th, never being in a relegation scrap and always feeling that we were taking the points we had earned.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chris Smith on July 27, 2020, 09:00:45 AM
Quote from: fbriai on July 27, 2020, 08:52:49 AM
I wouldn't change anything, personally. I wouldn't have done had we gone down either. I was worried when he took over that the job might be too much for him; a scar from the Graham Turner era, I think, but he soon dispelled that.

There aren't many players in the squad that have depreciated in value from when we brought them in and they look more and more like a cohesive unit. There's clearly a good spirit there and they all seem to respect the boss as well. The objective this season was making sure we stayed up. He's done that. Now we can invest again in the summer and kick-on.

At this point, I can't think of a better fit as manager for us. He's one of us, he gets the club completely and he's a top man to boot. It was his first season in the top flight and he himself openly admits that he has been learning as he's gone along.

Getting rid of him now would feel like getting rid of SGT after the first season back in Division 1. I'd back him and let him get on with the job. Besides, changing him would be a big gamble, especially with less than 6 weeks until the start of the season.

Agree with all of that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: wince on July 27, 2020, 09:14:34 AM
If the spine of decent players can be added to then we will be moving up the table. Let’s not get cocky that we will be doing a Leicester next season but we should be playing like Burnley and wolves (yes wolves) mindset to get to 40 points and higher as quick as we can. Festering down the foot of table is a no but my god we need a striker who can score.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: rob_bridge on July 27, 2020, 09:19:43 AM
Indeed Wince we should be looking to get around 50 points next season
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: simboy on July 27, 2020, 09:24:36 AM
Quote from: fbriai on July 27, 2020, 08:52:49 AM
I wouldn't change anything, personally. I wouldn't have done had we gone down either. I was worried when he took over that the job might be too much for him; a scar from the Graham Turner era, I think, but he soon dispelled that.

There aren't many players in the squad that have depreciated in value from when we brought them in and they look more and more like a cohesive unit. There's clearly a good spirit there and they all seem to respect the boss as well. The objective this season was making sure we stayed up. He's done that. Now we can invest again in the summer and kick-on.

At this point, I can't think of a better fit as manager for us. He's one of us, he gets the club completely and he's a top man to boot. It was his first season in the top flight and he himself openly admits that he has been learning as he's gone along.

Getting rid of him now would feel like getting rid of SGT after the first season back in Division 1. I'd back him and let him get on with the job. Besides, changing him would be a big gamble, especially with less than 6 weeks until the start of the season.


agreed.

We were the last club to know which league we were playing in at the beginning of the season. We had no central defenders worthy of the name, on the books, some ageing midfielders, and a striker who was destined for higher things, returning to a club with a transfer ban. Bruce's early season policies had left us in a rather difficult place come June last season. Add to that, we had just scraped up with a run of ten wins, ending up in 5th. Play off winners do not have a particularly good record of staying up, the following season.

Dyche had a full season where they swept all before them in the championship, and still got relegated.

We bought what was available, and what was available was moulded into a team which kept us in the Premiership, just. That is  significant credit to Smith and his team. We were let down by cavalier and oft times suicidal defending, that got sorted in the last few weeks.

Personally, a far better goal difference and a bit of mid table mediocrity will suit me just fine next term. 

 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on July 27, 2020, 09:24:40 AM
Judgement Purslow has to make is "Is Dean capable of delivering mid table mediocrity next season"?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: andyh on July 27, 2020, 09:28:03 AM
Quote from: olaftab on July 27, 2020, 09:24:40 AM
Judgement Purslow has to make is "Is Dean capable of delivering mid table mediocrity next season"?
Precisely.
Finish around 10th- 12th next season and that’s massive progress over 3 years.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AV82EC on July 27, 2020, 09:34:10 AM
Quote from: andyh on July 27, 2020, 09:28:03 AM
Quote from: olaftab on July 27, 2020, 09:24:40 AM
Judgement Purslow has to make is "Is Dean capable of delivering mid table mediocrity next season"?
Precisely.
Finish around 10th- 12th next season and that’s massive progress over 3 years.

A whole league Table higher than when he took over.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: garyfouroaks on July 27, 2020, 09:40:27 AM
Quote from: hipkiss92 on July 27, 2020, 08:56:32 AM
No reason Smith couldn't take us to a similar level or beyond with another year of investment.
I don't agree with your evaluation of Dyche and Howe, I think that there are numerous reasons why Smith may not be able to take us forwards.

I accept that there is also an argument in him remaining. It is a judgement call.

Watford were crazy to sack Pearson when they did. It is better to take decisions while the pressure is off, rather than on. Next season will be a Covid 19 affected odd one. Once you allow Smith to carry on, and probably spend the proceeds for Grealish, you are committing to another season. This is not a McLeish situation . It is one where it is reasonable to ask whether Smith can improve next season.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on July 27, 2020, 09:44:55 AM
That’s unfair to say we didn’t deserve to stay up and only did because of Bournemouth and Watford failings. If that’s the case you could use that argument anywhere. They always say the table doesn’t lie over a course of a season and we know it was by the skin of our teeth that we made it. Credit where credits due and most would have said survival this season was the aim. That other thread shows that was true when we gained promotion last May.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: garyfouroaks on July 27, 2020, 09:45:02 AM
Quote from: AV82EC on July 27, 2020, 09:34:10 AM
A whole league Table higher than when he took over.
And one point, a draw, from being back down there again, despite spending £140m in the summer with the highest net PL spend, more than Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal etc.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on July 27, 2020, 09:45:49 AM
Quote from: garyfouroaks on July 27, 2020, 09:45:02 AM
Quote from: AV82EC on July 27, 2020, 09:34:10 AM
A whole league Table higher than when he took over.
And one point, a draw, from being back down there again, despite spending £140m in the summer with the highest net PL spend, more than Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal etc.

There's a lot of context to that spend, disingenuous to make comparisons with those clubs.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: garyfouroaks on July 27, 2020, 09:47:23 AM
Quote from: Ian J on July 27, 2020, 09:44:55 AM
That’s unfair to say we didn’t deserve to stay up and only did because of Bournemouth and Watford failings. If that’s the case you could use that argument anywhere. They always say the table doesn’t lie over a course of a season and we know it was by the skin of our teeth that we made it. Credit where credits due and most would have said survival this season was the aim. That other thread shows that was true when we gained promotion last May.
I agree that the table does not lie.

Equally, the competition varies from season to season, Watford's repeated push on the self destruct button was fortunate.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 27, 2020, 09:48:52 AM
Quote from: garyfouroaks on July 27, 2020, 09:45:02 AM
Quote from: AV82EC on July 27, 2020, 09:34:10 AM
A whole league Table higher than when he took over.
And one point, a draw, from being back down there again, despite spending £140m in the summer with the highest net PL spend, more than Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal etc.

And how many of them had to buy almost an entire new squad? Had about three players who were good enough two months before the season started? Or had season-ending injuries to two major players in the same game?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mattjpa on July 27, 2020, 09:49:12 AM
I think that next year WBA could really struggle unless they invest heavily. Whoever comes up through the playoffs will also have a torrid time without a great deal of time to build a prem ready squad. Palace have looked shocking and are about to lose Zaha, Leeds are in for a shock as well. Newcastle are always one day away from a crisis, I also see Antonio getting an offer for a last big move away from west ham. IF we can keep this defensive cohesion up and also work out how to see off games, I would hope we will improve over last season without too much difficulty.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on July 27, 2020, 09:49:14 AM
Absolutely, we had to rebuild a whole squad. It seemed a lot of money but in comparison it was also a lot of players for that amount. Not just a few at £30 - £40 million plus on singular players as others already in this league try and do.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on July 27, 2020, 09:50:55 AM
Quote from: Ian J on July 27, 2020, 09:44:55 AM
That’s unfair to say we didn’t deserve to stay up and only did because of Bournemouth and Watford failings. If that’s the case you could use that argument anywhere. They always say the table doesn’t lie over a course of a season and we know it was by the skin of our teeth that we made it. Credit where credits due and most would have said survival this season was the aim. That other thread shows that was true when we gained promotion last May.

Yes, it's the most reductive argument that always rears its head. We finished on 35 points which is about par for surviving. Watford and Bournemouth were slightly worse than us. They also had some impressive results - Watford hammering Liverpool for one. We still managed more points than either so we deserved to stay up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on July 27, 2020, 09:55:37 AM
Yes we had to rebuild a whole squad and of course there were inevitable purchases, we effectively needed a whole new defence and certainly a striker (in fact, we should have bought two). But we also replaced a lot of squad players with squad players and loaned out a number of young prospects which on balance didn't make a lot of sense. We essentially spent a fair amount of money on players that didn't significantly improve on those we consciously let go, with the exception of Luiz.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AV82EC on July 27, 2020, 09:58:46 AM
Quote from: Ian J on July 27, 2020, 09:49:14 AM
Absolutely, we had to rebuild a whole squad. It seemed a lot of money but in comparison it was also a lot of players for that amount. Not just a few at £30 - £40 million plus on singular players as others already in this league try and do.

As Dean said an average £9.5million per player which gets you bottom 6 squad fillers in this league.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on July 27, 2020, 10:01:44 AM
Rob Dorsett on SSN has just been on to say his job is 100% safe.  And that we will not be selling Jack unless someone comes in with a stupid offer.  Says the owners want better next season though.  I think it is right to keep Dean.  Far too much upheaval in too short a space of time if he was to leave.  Seems to have fixed the defence.  Keep Jack, go and find two more effective, pacey wingers and a top class forward and I think we can progress again next year.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 27, 2020, 10:02:10 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 27, 2020, 09:48:52 AM
Quote from: garyfouroaks on July 27, 2020, 09:45:02 AM
Quote from: AV82EC on July 27, 2020, 09:34:10 AM
A whole league Table higher than when he took over.
And one point, a draw, from being back down there again, despite spending £140m in the summer with the highest net PL spend, more than Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal etc.

And how many of them had to buy almost an entire new squad? Had about three players who were good enough two months before the season started? Or had season-ending injuries to two major players in the same game?

I think four of the previous five playoff winners had gone down straight away. History was against us, we had to spend serious money to have a chance. So spending money shouldn't be used as an excuse to handwave our achievements away.

Smith hasn't been perfect this season. I don't think any manager has, though. The way the defence has improved since lockdown suggests he is capable of learning and improving.

We were midtable in the Small Heath division last season. If anyone was offered promotion in 2020, they'd have taken it. Here we are in the same division. He has done all that was asked of him and more. He needs to stay.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on July 27, 2020, 10:05:38 AM
Quote from: garyfouroaks on July 27, 2020, 09:45:02 AM
And one point, a draw, from being back down there again, despite spending £140m in the summer with the highest net PL spend, more than Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal etc.
Yes you are right that's piss poor for the team that won the Champions League season before.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on July 27, 2020, 10:13:57 AM
Quote from: garyfouroaks on July 27, 2020, 08:44:28 AM
Quote from: Drummond on July 27, 2020, 08:21:57 AM
I'm honestly dumbfounded that people still want to sack him.

Why?

In business it is commonplace to hire managers and experts to do a job, a job they do well, and then recruit someone else for the next job.

Ironically, were Smith to go now, his stock would be far higher than if he was sacked for a second dismal PL campaign later on.

Because he's worked miracles in the 21 months he's been here. He's taken us from lower mid table in the Championship to staying in the Premier League. Having had pretty much had to change half the squad in a short space of time.

We've been to Wembley and gave a good account of ourselves.

Hes proven that he can do what lots of people seem keen to think he's not capable of.

Enjoy that we've stayed up. Let him try and take us further because you've no idea whether he can or not. So far he's managed to do everything asked of him and more.

Every manager starts somewhere, everyone has to learn. He's doing it and proving people wrong. Bloody well done I say.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 27, 2020, 10:30:30 AM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on July 27, 2020, 10:01:44 AM
Rob Dorsett on SSN has just been on to say his job is 100% safe.  And that we will not be selling Jack unless someone comes in with a stupid offer.  Says the owners want better next season though.  I think it is right to keep Dean.  Far too much upheaval in too short a space of time if he was to leave.  Seems to have fixed the defence.  Keep Jack, go and find two more effective, pacey wingers and a top class forward and I think we can progress again next year.

I think it is also worth remembering that there's a very short break before the start of next season now.

Had we gone down, we'd have been starting again because we'd have lost our best players (not just Grealish), so I'd have used the fact we were going to go through turmoil and sacked him and started over again. We haven't, though, we've just about got the chance to build on something, and he has kept us up.

Next year needs to be better, though - assuming the owners support him with money, mid table or so. Great chunks of this season were horrific viewing, hopefully he has learned enough from it to make us, and him, better.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: DrGonzo on July 27, 2020, 10:37:35 AM
From The Grauniad:

"Dean Smith

Teams who get promoted through the play-offs are expected to struggle, especially if they lose half their squad straight away. Dean Smith had to adapt to the top flight while blending in over a dozen new arrivals, promising talents recruited at an average price of around £9.5m each, which is small beer in the Premier League saloon. Then, halfway through the campaign, he had to cope with the loss of the spine of his team, with goalkeeper Tom Heaton and main striker Wesley suffering long-term injuries and John McGinn sidelined for several months. Smith showed his skills by successfully changing his approach and tightening up a defence that had been leaky, and he helped newcomers such as Douglas Luiz and Trezeguet to grow into very good Premier League players. Before the season ended it was clear that Villa would be wise to keep Smith irrespective of whether they stayed up or went down."
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AllanW on July 27, 2020, 10:47:59 AM
Quote from: DrGonzo on July 27, 2020, 10:37:35 AM
From The Grauniad:

"Dean Smith

Teams who get promoted through the play-offs are expected to struggle, especially if they lose half their squad straight away. Dean Smith had to adapt to the top flight while blending in over a dozen new arrivals, promising talents recruited at an average price of around £9.5m each, which is small beer in the Premier League saloon. Then, halfway through the campaign, he had to cope with the loss of the spine of his team, with goalkeeper Tom Heaton and main striker Wesley suffering long-term injuries and John McGinn sidelined for several months. Smith showed his skills by successfully changing his approach and tightening up a defence that had been leaky, and he helped newcomers such as Douglas Luiz and Trezeguet to grow into very good Premier League players. Before the season ended it was clear that Villa would be wise to keep Smith irrespective of whether they stayed up or went down."

That's about right. A balanced assessment. I hope he's accurate and Smith stays; he deserves our respect and support.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: placeforparks on July 27, 2020, 10:48:12 AM
really pleased for dean.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on July 27, 2020, 10:50:33 AM
It is similar to the Curbishley moment at Charlton.  Bournemouth were always going to be loyal to Howe and rightfully so.  But the shitfest at Watford in terms of managerial appointments and sackings proves, on balance, we would be right to keep him. Right now, we just need continuity and four quality additions to the squad.  Whilst getting rid of the deadwood - Lansbury, Jota, Taylor, possibly even Davies and Nyland.  Depending on Heaton's fitness update, maybe go and get Ben Foster. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mcgrath_85 on July 27, 2020, 11:00:32 AM
Quote from: Villan82 on July 27, 2020, 08:56:46 AM
Dean Smith has 100% earned another crack.

However, there needs to be progress next season. We need to be winning more games and grinding out more draws.We lost 21 games this season, that needs to be down to less than 16 next season minimum - say 11 wins and 11 draws, what Newcastle did to finish 13th this season.

Progress next year would be finishing north of 14th, never being in a relegation scrap and always feeling that we were taking the points we had earned.

I think we should be aiming higher than this mate.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: oldhill_avfc on July 27, 2020, 11:03:09 AM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on July 27, 2020, 09:55:37 AM
Yes we had to rebuild a whole squad and of course there were inevitable purchases, we effectively needed a whole new defence and certainly a striker (in fact, we should have bought two). But we also replaced a lot of squad players with squad players and loaned out a number of young prospects which on balance didn't make a lot of sense. We essentially spent a fair amount of money on players that didn't significantly improve on those we consciously let go, with the exception of Luiz.

The players we bought in may have only scraped us through but they are significantly better than those we let go, ie - Whelan, jedinak, bjarnesson, adomah, hutton ,elphick, richards, et al.

The only arguable case was possibly letting Kodjia go as he might have offered more than Samatta and Davis.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mcgrath_85 on July 27, 2020, 11:08:21 AM
Pay Potch whatever he wants and let’s properly crack on. There I said it. *ducks for cover.

Let’s face it. This season has been a drag. Getting seven points from our last 4 games against average teams who had nothing to play for saved us. That and are rivals being hopeless. I like Dean a lot, but lets act like the big club we are and be ambitious!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulTheVillan on July 27, 2020, 11:09:32 AM
I'm happy for Dean Smith. I'll be honest, before the lockdown after that Leicester game, I was calling for his head. I thought he was out of his depth.

He's obviously worked on the defensive problems. My worry is we're not going to have another break like that mid-season if all is failing next season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villa Lew on July 27, 2020, 11:10:23 AM
He has improved greatly since lockdown, has instilled a discipline and determination in the team, a huge improvement has been made defensively, for which credit must also be given to Terry for that.

He has also had to work with having 2 of the worst strikers in the league, when you think Burnley have Wood, Everton Calvert Lewin, West Ham Antonio, Brighton Maupay, even Deeney at Watford, and where would Southampton have been without Danny Ings, if we would of had a striker of the quality of those mentioned, we would have been looking at a position round mid table.

Definitely deserves another season, he has learnt a lot from this season and will be better for it.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on July 27, 2020, 11:15:47 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 27, 2020, 09:48:52 AM
Quote from: garyfouroaks on July 27, 2020, 09:45:02 AM
Quote from: AV82EC on July 27, 2020, 09:34:10 AM
A whole league Table higher than when he took over.
And one point, a draw, from being back down there again, despite spending £140m in the summer with the highest net PL spend, more than Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal etc.

And how many of them had to buy almost an entire new squad? Had about three players who were good enough two months before the season started? Or had season-ending injuries to two major players in the same game?
It seems odd that one of our own would make that very dubious comparison just to try and knock Dean Smith. Not understanding or at least pretending not to, that Arsenal,Liverpool or Man U spending a similar amount to us to improve their already talented squad is false and totally unfair on the club they claim to support. I'd expect to see that comment on one of our illustrious bitter neighbour's fan forums but not on here.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Smithy on July 27, 2020, 11:15:51 AM
Quote from: PaulTheVillan on July 27, 2020, 11:09:32 AM
I'm happy for Dean Smith. I'll be honest, before the lockdown after that Leicester game, I was calling for his head. I thought he was out of his depth.

He's obviously worked on the defensive problems. My worry is we're not going to have another break like that mid-season if all is failing next season.

I get the impression it wasn't so much a chance to fix things he'd suddenly realised were wrong, but to work with a squad of players that hadn't played much together before the season started.  His comments about Douglas being a case in point.  He arrived two days before the season started, and didn't look all that great at the start.  The lockdown was probably their first chance to work on things for any period of time without the focus being on "the next game". He's looked WAY better as a result. The same is probably true for the defensive unit as a whole.

I think we got lucky with the lockdown, without it, I think we were down.  But we used it really well, and it was a massive benefit to a squad like ours with lots of new players who were given the chance to get some proper coaching from the staff - the stuff you can't work on for any length of time when you're never more than four or five days from your next match.

I would hope the ways we've defended after lockdown is the way we'll defend moving forward, rather than being a temporary blip.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: rob_bridge on July 27, 2020, 11:20:00 AM
Quote from: mcgrath_85 on July 27, 2020, 11:00:32 AM
Quote from: Villan82 on July 27, 2020, 08:56:46 AM
Dean Smith has 100% earned another crack.

However, there needs to be progress next season. We need to be winning more games and grinding out more draws.We lost 21 games this season, that needs to be down to less than 16 next season minimum - say 11 wins and 11 draws, what Newcastle did to finish 13th this season.

Progress next year would be finishing north of 14th, never being in a relegation scrap and always feeling that we were taking the points we had earned.

I think we should be aiming higher than this mate.

Progress would be between 45 and 50 points which could be 11th or could be 15th depending on how season pans out.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Smithy on July 27, 2020, 11:25:32 AM
Would also add, in our 10 games since the restart, we've played three of the top four sides, and still averaged a point a game, while only coneding 1.1 goals a game (our defence is the 8th best in the league since the restart).

That sort of form would see us safely mid-table next season (yes, a point a game isn't 'safely mid-table', but we won't be playing 30% of our games against the top four).
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan82 on July 27, 2020, 11:26:14 AM
Quote from: mcgrath_85 on July 27, 2020, 11:00:32 AM
Quote from: Villan82 on July 27, 2020, 08:56:46 AM
Dean Smith has 100% earned another crack.

However, there needs to be progress next season. We need to be winning more games and grinding out more draws.We lost 21 games this season, that needs to be down to less than 16 next season minimum - say 11 wins and 11 draws, what Newcastle did to finish 13th this season.

Progress next year would be finishing north of 14th, never being in a relegation scrap and always feeling that we were taking the points we had earned.

I think we should be aiming higher than this mate.

I know what you mean. I am just saying as a minimum I want to see us at least 9 points better off than last season which would constitute our best season since 2010-11.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Walmley_Villa on July 27, 2020, 11:28:27 AM
Delighted for Dean and the owners. Show some ambition and I think Jack will stay. Dean has developed a team spirit and now has tactically matured. He deserves the chance foe next season and even more so with such a short season turnaround. Give him the tools and better quality players.
Dean deserves a chance as staying up with 6 goals from your strikers in a season and staying up is quite an achievement!

Anyone spot Suso yesterday?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 27, 2020, 11:41:18 AM
I think without the coronavirus break we'd have sunk without a trace, so we can be thankful that he used the time to reorganise himself and the squad.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: DB on July 27, 2020, 11:48:17 AM
Quote from: mcgrath_85 on July 27, 2020, 11:08:21 AM
Pay Potch whatever he wants and let’s properly crack on. There I said it. *ducks for cover.

Let’s face it. This season has been a drag. Getting seven points from our last 4 games against average teams who had nothing to play for saved us. That and are rivals being hopeless. I like Dean a lot, but lets act like the big club we are and be ambitious!


I agree with most of your view on Smith / survival, but add in the recruitment was poor last summer and in Jan. If we are to push on my worry is the recruitment team in place will make same mistakes.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on July 27, 2020, 11:52:14 AM
Quote from: DB on July 27, 2020, 11:48:17 AM
Quote from: mcgrath_85 on July 27, 2020, 11:08:21 AM
Pay Potch whatever he wants and let’s properly crack on. There I said it. *ducks for cover.

Let’s face it. This season has been a drag. Getting seven points from our last 4 games against average teams who had nothing to play for saved us. That and are rivals being hopeless. I like Dean a lot, but lets act like the big club we are and be ambitious!


I agree with most of your view on Smith / survival, but add in the recruitment was poor last summer and in Jan. If we are to push on my worry is the recruitment team in place will make same mistakes.

The recruitment needs this summer are very different to last year. There were rumours linking us to plenty of other players who we apparently ended up giving up on because of the cost. The one I'm holding on to is the link to Ben Yedder near the end of the window. He's exactly the sort of player we need to be looking at this time round.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on July 27, 2020, 11:55:49 AM
Quote from: paul_e on July 27, 2020, 11:52:14 AM
Quote from: DB on July 27, 2020, 11:48:17 AM
Quote from: mcgrath_85 on July 27, 2020, 11:08:21 AM
Pay Potch whatever he wants and let’s properly crack on. There I said it. *ducks for cover.

Let’s face it. This season has been a drag. Getting seven points from our last 4 games against average teams who had nothing to play for saved us. That and are rivals being hopeless. I like Dean a lot, but lets act like the big club we are and be ambitious!


I agree with most of your view on Smith / survival, but add in the recruitment was poor last summer and in Jan. If we are to push on my worry is the recruitment team in place will make same mistakes.

The recruitment needs this summer are very different to last year. There were rumours linking us to plenty of other players who we apparently ended up giving up on because of the cost. The one I'm holding on to is the link to Ben Yedder near the end of the window. He's exactly the sort of player we need to be looking at this time round.

My lad tells me he’s proper good on fifa 20 as well
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on July 27, 2020, 11:58:09 AM
Quote from: Risso on July 27, 2020, 11:41:18 AM
I think without the coronavirus break we'd have sunk without a trace, so we can be thankful that he used the time to reorganise himself and the squad.

It's to his enormous credit that he did, and did it well, and also had to deal with the death of his Dad at the same time.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Meanwood Villa on July 27, 2020, 11:59:15 AM
I love Dean, even when we looked doomed I found it hard to criticise the bloke. So if, as seems likely, he's our boss next year I'm happy with that and hope we can push on.

If, however, the owners push the boat out on a really big name manager I wouldn't object to that either.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on July 27, 2020, 12:01:01 PM
Ben Yedder sounds like a kid from Cradely Heath that's good in the air.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: rob_bridge on July 27, 2020, 12:02:08 PM
Quote from: Risso on July 27, 2020, 11:41:18 AM
I think without the coronavirus break we'd have sunk without a trace, so we can be thankful that he used the time to reorganise himself and the squad.

Pre lockdown I thought it was Norwch plus two from us Bournemouth and Brighton. Thought Watford were big and ugly enough to draw clear and West Ham had too much quality.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: DB on July 27, 2020, 12:12:56 PM
I remember Bruce getting pelted on here by some when his folks died close together for not putting it behind him and doing his job.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KevinGage on July 27, 2020, 12:17:54 PM
Quote from: Meanwood Villa on July 27, 2020, 11:59:15 AM
I love Dean, even when we looked doomed I found it hard to criticise the bloke. So if, as seems likely, he's our boss next year I'm happy with that and hope we can push on.

If, however, the owners push the boat out on a really big name manager I wouldn't object to that either.

Pretty much where I'm at.

Edit: like rather than love.  I have criticised him and would still be concerned about our pattern of play throughout the season.

But it's heartening to see a fellow Villa fan take us up and then keep us up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Meanwood Villa on July 27, 2020, 12:24:50 PM
He deserved criticism for some of the performances turned out over the season and I think recruitment has been poor, although how much of that is down to him isn't that clear. But with other managers it's got to the point where I really dislike them and that hasn't happened with him. So chuffed we got over the line and would love it if we can kick on with him in charge.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: RamboandBruno on July 27, 2020, 12:25:27 PM
Quote from: rob_bridge on July 27, 2020, 12:02:08 PM
Quote from: Risso on July 27, 2020, 11:41:18 AM
I think without the coronavirus break we'd have sunk without a trace, so we can be thankful that he used the time to reorganise himself and the squad.

Pre lockdown I thought it was Norwch plus two from us Bournemouth and Brighton. Thought Watford were big and ugly enough to draw clear and West Ham had too much quality.

Despite backing Smith on here numerous times, I thought he looked lost pre lockdown and the Leicester mauling in particular, when I thought we were gone. Likewise in some of the early re start games I thought he as well as the team were struggling. In hindsight maybe we were just playing teams in Chelsea, wolves, Man U and Liverpool that were much better than us.

To me it isn’t right that the coach/manager gets all the flack when things go wrong and none of the credit when they go well. It’s been said too many times that essentially Grealish got us up last season and that Smith was lucky.
If we sit back now on a rainy Monday after yesterday’s highs and look at smiths 21 months in charge, we’ve gone from mid table championship, to the best winning run in our history, promotion at Wembley, a league cup final, narrowly defeated to one of the best sides I’ve ever seen, and now premier league survival when it looked impossible with 4 games to go.
To me that’s impressive. We could argue he was lucky with grealish coming back when he did last year, inversely it could be argued smith was unlucky he got injured in the first place and maybe we would of gone up automatically if he hadn’t.
This seasons been a hard watch at times, and sometimes it has seemed like Dean has struggled, but on the whole the transformation since the restart has been startling and shows to me that he does have tactical nous.
For me we keep smith, we let a few players go, hopefully keep all of our better players, and get 4 or 5 players in that will improve us and the futures bright(er)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 27, 2020, 12:27:01 PM
Slept under his desk at the office last night.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on July 27, 2020, 12:37:04 PM
Smith that managed us against Arsenal is good enough for where we want to go next season, Smith that managed us against Man Utd isn't. I'm happy for him to have time to see which of those 2 versions wins out with a year of experience under his belt, a squad that knows what being in the premier league means and a bit pot of cash to spend on a handful of players rather than having to rebuild the squad completely.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on July 27, 2020, 12:38:46 PM
Quote from: Ads on July 27, 2020, 12:01:01 PM
Ben Yedder sounds like a kid from Cradely Heath that's good in the air.
<applause>
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on July 27, 2020, 01:05:58 PM
He's come in for stick this season, rightly so as from November onwards we were poor BUT he took over when we were in the bottom half of the Championship and 18 months later we have survived getting back in the top division. He's passed both tests and thrown in a cup final. As he earned a shot at keeping us up and I think it's only fair that having achieved that he's earned his shot and building and moving on to the next stage.

The football has at times been very poor and defensively we have been shite, it's not been perfect and I remain sceptical about whether he has what it takes to move us forward but I'm proud of what he's achieved, he is a Villa fan and I know it shouldn't matter .... but it does to me, and I can't deny I love it just a little bit more that one of us has got us a toehold back in top flight football.

When he does get the sack, which happens to everyone eventually, he can be proud of the job he's done and like looking back at Gabby doing the rags time and time again, you forget about the bad times and remember how much sweeter it was knowing someone like me or you got the chance to live the dream and for a while took hold of it.

Well done Smith, you proved a lot of people wrong, including me. Tastiest humble pie I've eaten for a long, long time.

Up the Villa.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Neil Hawkes on July 27, 2020, 01:11:11 PM
Quote from: garyfouroaks on July 27, 2020, 08:05:20 AM
Quote from: Monty on July 27, 2020, 01:09:56 AM
Of course he'll be in charge beginning of next season. I'm just not convinced next year will be anything other than a struggle with him to be brutally honest - all season we lacked any sort of real identity in our play, and when we got a run in at the death it was based on skin-of-teeth, siege defending of the kind that makes me wonder if those advocating for Allardyce didn't get their wish in the end, in a way. Not to diminish this, or to say that I'm not really fond of Deano, I really am. I just remain unconvinced. But perhaps that's all for another day.
I feel the same.

And did he keep us up? Or did Bournemouth and Watford's shocking implosion do that? In the last two seasons we have been the fifth best side in the Championship , and 17th best in the Prem. That is hardly positive momentum. Yes, Smith did do well to achieve promotion- from a division he knew well, and in the play off lottery. I am not belittling his achievements, but the Villa job is not work experience.

He did not make the same impact that Dyche did when he took Burnley up, or Howe when he took Bournemouth up. The team has not been unlucky this season, it has not been good enough. Are we in a much better position to recruit this summer than last? What style of play are we offering new recruits?

Grealish is likely to go. Is Smith the man to replace him and use the money wisely?
Sweet mother of god.
How many times does it need to be said, 12 new players to start a premier league season; after finishing 5th in championship and winning the play off finals, we did not have a starting 11 from the promoted squad.
Where would you expect the majority of premier league teams, (with experience under their belts), to have ended up if they had to replace a keeper, centre half, defender, midfield enforcer, winger & striker before the first ball was kicked, noting that all the substitutes where also in their 1st season at the club?
AND THEN to lose the keeper & striker midway through the season, plus one of their influential midfielders for a major part of the season?
If any other manager did what Deano had done, (based on above), there would be plaudits galore; however we are Aston Villa and don't even get plaudits from our local news outlets.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on July 27, 2020, 01:15:18 PM
Quote from: aj2k77 on July 27, 2020, 01:05:58 PM
He's come in for stick this season, rightly so as from November onwards we were poor BUT he took over when we were in the bottom half of the Championship and 18 months later we have survived getting back in the top division. He's passed both tests and thrown in a cup final. As he earned a shot at keeping us up and I think it's only fair that having achieved that he's earned his shot and building and moving on to the next stage.

The football has at times been very poor and defensively we have been shite, it's not been perfect and I remain sceptical about whether he has what it takes to move us forward but I'm proud of what he's achieved, he is a Villa fan and I know it shouldn't matter .... but it does to me, and I can't deny I love it just a little bit more that one of us has got us a toehold back in top flight football.

When he does get the sack, which happens to everyone eventually, he can be proud of the job he's done and like looking back at Gabby doing the rags time and time again, you forget about the bad times and remember how much sweeter it was knowing someone like me or you got the chance to live the dream and for a while took hold of it.

Well done Smith, you proved a lot of people wrong, including me. Tastiest humble pie I've eaten for a long, long time.

Up the Villa.

The bold bit has been addressed. Since the restart we've conceded 11 in 10 with 7 of those coming against the 3 top 4 sides we played. If that was repeated over the course of an entire season we'd have a record similar to Sheff Utd who've been praised for their defence all season. What Smith needs to do is work out how to keep that defensive stability but add more goal threat, probably by adding more pace into the team and working on our finishing.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dick Edwards on July 27, 2020, 01:20:43 PM
Quote from: aj2k77 on July 27, 2020, 01:05:58 PM
He's come in for stick this season, rightly so as from November onwards we were poor BUT he took over when we were in the bottom half of the Championship and 18 months later we have survived getting back in the top division. He's passed both tests and thrown in a cup final. As he earned a shot at keeping us up and I think it's only fair that having achieved that he's earned his shot and building and moving on to the next stage.

The football has at times been very poor and defensively we have been shite, it's not been perfect and I remain sceptical about whether he has what it takes to move us forward but I'm proud of what he's achieved, he is a Villa fan and I know it shouldn't matter .... but it does to me, and I can't deny I love it just a little bit more that one of us has got us a toehold back in top flight football.

When he does get the sack, which happens to everyone eventually, he can be proud of the job he's done and like looking back at Gabby doing the rags time and time again, you forget about the bad times and remember how much sweeter it was knowing someone like me or you got the chance to live the dream and for a while took hold of it.

Well done Smith, you proved a lot of people wrong, including me. Tastiest humble pie I've eaten for a long, long time.

Up the Villa.

Well said.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on July 27, 2020, 01:23:56 PM
I wonder if Dean will fine himself for turning up at work drunk?  Actually, he may get around that bit of ill discipline as he was already at work!  Cheeky fecker will probably claim the overtime!

(He deserves it today to be fair).
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on July 27, 2020, 01:24:33 PM
Quote from: Risso on July 27, 2020, 11:41:18 AM
I think without the coronavirus break we'd have sunk without a trace, so we can be thankful that he used the time to reorganise himself and the squad.

Quite possibly. It's amazing what a difference it made having a few weeks break, a chance to have 1:1 chats with players and review how they've done isn't it?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 27, 2020, 01:27:32 PM
This morning Dean Smith woke up albeit a little foggy as a PL manager. This morning our players woke up (or maybe they still haven't) as PL players. We all woke up this morning as fans of a PL club. None of us thought we would be doing that 5 games ago, and certainly not before the break. But a series of events has led us to this point. The major one being the one we all wanted most of all. That the manager and players found out a way to win points in the PL through defensive cohesiveness. And even while it wasn't perfect as shown with late goals conceded at Everton and West Ham, the run to the end showed that we have made significant progress to that end. We desperately need a forward but any team that over the course of the season only concedes 40 or so goals generally has enough about them to stay up.

We deserved to stay up. Dean Smith deserves to be Vill manager.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: RamboandBruno on July 27, 2020, 01:58:13 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on July 27, 2020, 01:27:32 PM
This morning Dean Smith woke up albeit a little foggy as a PL manager. This morning our players woke up (or maybe they still haven't) as PL players. We all woke up this morning as fans of a PL club. None of us thought we would be doing that 5 games ago, and certainly not before the break. But a serious of events has led us to this point. The major on being the one we all wanted most of all. That the manager and players found out a way to win points in the PL through defensive cohesiveness. And even while it wasn't perfect as shown with late goals conceded at Everton and West Ham, the run to the end showed that we have made significant progress to that end. We desperately need a forward but any team that over the course of the season only concedes 40 or so goals generally has enough about them to stay up.

We deserved to stay up. Dean Smith deserves to be Vill manager.
Well said
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: darren woolley on July 27, 2020, 02:02:39 PM
I'm so proud of Dean Smith he's kept us up and got us to a cup final that for me is incredible.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: RamboandBruno on July 27, 2020, 02:03:34 PM
Quote from: Neil Hawkes on July 27, 2020, 01:11:11 PM
Quote from: garyfouroaks on July 27, 2020, 08:05:20 AM
Quote from: Monty on July 27, 2020, 01:09:56 AM
Of course he'll be in charge beginning of next season. I'm just not convinced next year will be anything other than a struggle with him to be brutally honest - all season we lacked any sort of real identity in our play, and when we got a run in at the death it was based on skin-of-teeth, siege defending of the kind that makes me wonder if those advocating for Allardyce didn't get their wish in the end, in a way. Not to diminish this, or to say that I'm not really fond of Deano, I really am. I just remain unconvinced. But perhaps that's all for another day.
I feel the same.

And did he keep us up? Or did Bournemouth and Watford's shocking implosion do that? In the last two seasons we have been the fifth best side in the Championship , and 17th best in the Prem. That is hardly positive momentum. Yes, Smith did do well to achieve promotion- from a division he knew well, and in the play off lottery. I am not belittling his achievements, but the Villa job is not work experience.

He did not make the same impact that Dyche did when he took Burnley up, or Howe when he took Bournemouth up. The team has not been unlucky this season, it has not been good enough. Are we in a much better position to recruit this summer than last? What style of play are we offering new recruits?

Grealish is likely to go. Is Smith the man to replace him and use the money wisely?
Sweet mother of god.
How many times does it need to be said, 12 new players to start a premier league season; after finishing 5th in championship and winning the play off finals, we did not have a starting 11 from the promoted squad.
Where would you expect the majority of premier league teams, (with experience under their belts), to have ended up if they had to replace a keeper, centre half, defender, midfield enforcer, winger & striker before the first ball was kicked, noting that all the substitutes where also in their 1st season at the club?
AND THEN to lose the keeper & striker midway through the season, plus one of their influential midfielders for a major part of the season?
If any other manager did what Deano had done, (based on above), there would be plaudits galore; however we are Aston Villa and don't even get plaudits from our local news outlets.

I think the comments from garyfromfouroaks are very much along the lines of grealish got us up last year on his own virtually. Firstly Dyche actually took Burnley straight back down first time around, so Smith has surpassed that. Burnley consolidated because they stuck with Dyche after getting relegated with him. And putting our achievement mainly down to the fact that Bournemouth and Watford imploded (although not sure Bournemouth did implode) is just not correct. We got 8 points out of 12 at just the right time, through grit and determination, which the manager must of helped to instil.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on July 27, 2020, 02:08:46 PM
Quote from: RamboandBruno on July 27, 2020, 02:03:34 PM
Quote from: Neil Hawkes on July 27, 2020, 01:11:11 PM
Quote from: garyfouroaks on July 27, 2020, 08:05:20 AM
Quote from: Monty on July 27, 2020, 01:09:56 AM
Of course he'll be in charge beginning of next season. I'm just not convinced next year will be anything other than a struggle with him to be brutally honest - all season we lacked any sort of real identity in our play, and when we got a run in at the death it was based on skin-of-teeth, siege defending of the kind that makes me wonder if those advocating for Allardyce didn't get their wish in the end, in a way. Not to diminish this, or to say that I'm not really fond of Deano, I really am. I just remain unconvinced. But perhaps that's all for another day.
I feel the same.

And did he keep us up? Or did Bournemouth and Watford's shocking implosion do that? In the last two seasons we have been the fifth best side in the Championship , and 17th best in the Prem. That is hardly positive momentum. Yes, Smith did do well to achieve promotion- from a division he knew well, and in the play off lottery. I am not belittling his achievements, but the Villa job is not work experience.

He did not make the same impact that Dyche did when he took Burnley up, or Howe when he took Bournemouth up. The team has not been unlucky this season, it has not been good enough. Are we in a much better position to recruit this summer than last? What style of play are we offering new recruits?

Grealish is likely to go. Is Smith the man to replace him and use the money wisely?
Sweet mother of god.
How many times does it need to be said, 12 new players to start a premier league season; after finishing 5th in championship and winning the play off finals, we did not have a starting 11 from the promoted squad.
Where would you expect the majority of premier league teams, (with experience under their belts), to have ended up if they had to replace a keeper, centre half, defender, midfield enforcer, winger & striker before the first ball was kicked, noting that all the substitutes where also in their 1st season at the club?
AND THEN to lose the keeper & striker midway through the season, plus one of their influential midfielders for a major part of the season?
If any other manager did what Deano had done, (based on above), there would be plaudits galore; however we are Aston Villa and don't even get plaudits from our local news outlets.

I think the comments from garyfromfouroaks are very much along the lines of grealish got us up last year on his own virtually. Firstly Dyche actually took Burnley straight back down first time around, so Smith has surpassed that. Burnley consolidated because they stuck with Dyche after getting relegated with him. And putting our achievement mainly down to the fact that Bournemouth and Watford imploded (although not sure Bournemouth did implode) is just not correct. We got 8 points out of 12 at just the right time, through grit and determination, which the manager must of helped to instil.

Some people are determined to see a cloud for every silver lining.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 27, 2020, 02:09:02 PM
We imploded loads of times this season. We led game against the best teams in the country very late and threw them away. While it’s a stat we should never have to rely to prove a point it needs to be made. It’s slim margins that can lead you to this point and while everyone gnashes their over that Sheff Utd goal, I would prefer we look a ourselves and realize that those same slim margins positioned a little differently and we are talking about a mid table football club not one that scraped by on the last day.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brend'Watkins on July 27, 2020, 02:11:49 PM
Whatever he and his team have done to address the leaking of goals has been remarkable really. We have looked much, much better defensively since the restart. To restrict a very in form West Ham to just one shot on target is quite an achievement. We've set the standard for next season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 27, 2020, 02:13:34 PM
If you're going to give Smith stick (which I have, lots) when things were going badly, then you have to hold your hands up and give him credit where it's due when he turns things round.  I was at the last game away at Leicester before lockdown, and it was dreadful.  We were outplayed and outthought, and it could and should have been a bigger battering than the 4-0 end scoreline.  And that game came after similarly piss poor displays at Southampton and Bournemouth. 

So I don't think it's much of a stretch to say that he was taking us down at that point with barely a whimper, and had there not been a shut down and he'd lost to Chelsea I do think there'd have been a parting of the ways.

The effort to keep us up was nothing short of superb though.  Far more organisation, belief and spirit, and he deserves the credit for that.  Now I'm at the point where I still wouldn't be averse to a big hitter like Pochettino coming in, but I'm also now interested to see what Smith can do in his second season.  There excuses that he had this season have mostly gone, and if they sort the recruitment side then there's no reason at all that we should struggle so badly again.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 27, 2020, 02:14:25 PM
Quote from: Bren'd on July 27, 2020, 02:11:49 PM
Whatever he and his team have done to address the leaking of goals has been remarkable really. We have looked much, much better defensively since the restart. To restrict a very in form West Ham to just one shot on target is quite an achievement. We've set the standard for next season.

That’s one shot on target from opponents in two games. We played one the form teams on Arsenal with two superb forwards and yesterday played one of the most in form strikers in Antonio. Yes he should have done better with his one clear cut chance but we gave him nothing besides. It’s a hell of an achievement at precisely the right time.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 27, 2020, 02:16:37 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on July 27, 2020, 02:14:25 PM
Quote from: Bren'd on July 27, 2020, 02:11:49 PM
Whatever he and his team have done to address the leaking of goals has been remarkable really. We have looked much, much better defensively since the restart. To restrict a very in form West Ham to just one shot on target is quite an achievement. We've set the standard for next season.

That’s one shot on target from opponents in two games. We played one the form teams on Arsenal with two superb forwards and yesterday played one of the most in form strikers in Antonio. Yes he should have done better with his one clear cut chance but we gave him nothing besides. It’s a hell of an achievement at precisely the right time.

Agreed, the turnaround from conceding 20 shots a match is the main reason we stopped up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 27, 2020, 02:24:25 PM
Pre-lockdown: Most shots on target conceded per game

ASTON VILLA - 5.64
Newcastle - 5.55
Norwich - 5.38

Post-lockdown: Fewest shots on target conceded per game

Wolves - 2.22
Man City - 2.5
Liverpool - 2.78
ASTON VILLA - 2.8
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: garyfouroaks on July 27, 2020, 02:33:21 PM
Quote from: Risso on July 27, 2020, 02:13:34 PM
If you're going to give Smith stick (which I have, lots) when things were going badly, then you have to hold your hands up and give him credit where it's due when he turns things round. 

The effort to keep us up was nothing short of superb though.  Far more organisation, belief and spirit, and he deserves the credit for that.  Now I'm at the point where I still wouldn't be averse to a big hitter like Pochettino coming in, but I'm also now interested to see what Smith can do in his second season.  There excuses that he had this season have mostly gone, and if they sort the recruitment side then there's no reason at all that we should struggle so badly again.

Fair comment.

We survived, and that was the critical thing.

In the past I have backed managers longer than others, I am no "hire em and fire em man".

The promoted Champ clubs are having their money cut by the Pl, our income has been hit, and will be hit, by the lockdown. It will be interesting to see how the transfer market as a whole shapes up for the next season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pipe on July 27, 2020, 02:34:12 PM
He saw the defensive problems and worked on them during lockdown. That kept us up. He deserves the chance to put a bckbone into the team with perhaps 4 or 5 good players.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: DrGonzo on July 27, 2020, 02:34:57 PM
Good management is recognising your weaknesses and setting out to fix them. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: RamboandBruno on July 27, 2020, 02:35:29 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on July 27, 2020, 02:24:25 PM
Pre-lockdown: Most shots on target conceded per game

ASTON VILLA - 5.64
Newcastle - 5.55
Norwich - 5.38

Post-lockdown: Fewest shots on target conceded per game

Wolves - 2.22
Man City - 2.5
Liverpool - 2.78
ASTON VILLA - 2.8

That stat says everything, hugely impressive
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 27, 2020, 02:36:53 PM
Yep, fair play.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: GordonCowansisthegreatest on July 27, 2020, 02:39:52 PM
I'm not sure the shot was on target yesterday, probably flying over the bar! Only the lucky deflection gave them the goal.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Hookeysmith on July 27, 2020, 02:42:26 PM
If anyone of us a year ago was offered remaining in the premiership and a cup final loss to probably one of the best teams in the country if not Europe on our first year back

We would have ripped someone's hand off.

We can analyse it to death - the facts are anyone can make mistakes- those that put them right are the successful ones

Well done Dean and the Villa boys - not seen a togetherness like that since the Little era
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: exigo on July 27, 2020, 02:42:44 PM
I don't mean this to sound as harsh as it might seem written down, but Hause getting injured might have saved our season. Mings and Konsa in the middle absolutely clicked, and having a right back at right back meant we looked better balanced – Elmo's combination of crosses, aerial dominance and positional sense gave us both defensive and attacking cover.

Don't get me wrong, what Smith did during lockdown, while his father was at his life's end, was incredible. To have the focus to work with individual players on video calls, giving guidance, support and leadership is a testament to the man's character and love for this club.

Every successful manager has had at least one stroke of luck along the way. I sincerely hope that Smith is pushing the upper reaches of the league and lifting trophies with us one day. If he is, we might have Hause's ribs to thank.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on July 27, 2020, 02:49:08 PM
Quote from: exigo on July 27, 2020, 02:42:44 PM
I don't mean this to sound as harsh as it might seem written down, but Hause getting injured might have saved our season. Mings and Konsa in the middle absolutely clicked, and having a right back at right back meant we looked better balanced – Elmo's combination of crosses, aerial dominance and positional sense gave us both defensive and attacking cover.

Don't get me wrong, what Smith did during lockdown, while his father was at his life's end, was incredible. To have the focus to work with individual players on video calls, giving guidance, support and leadership is a testament to the man's character and love for this club.

Every successful manager has had at least one stroke of luck along the way. I sincerely hope that Smith is pushing the upper reaches of the league and lifting trophies with us one day. If he is, we might have Hause's ribs to thank.

Good post Exigo.  Elmo's injury too, allowing us the additional pace of Guilbert for the Arsenal game also helped too.  Him punching the air for winning a goal kick summed up that whole, determined performance for me.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ASHTONVILLA on July 27, 2020, 02:52:06 PM
Quote from: Risso on July 27, 2020, 02:13:34 PM
If you're going to give Smith stick (which I have, lots) when things were going badly, then you have to hold your hands up and give him credit where it's due when he turns things round.  I was at the last game away at Leicester before lockdown, and it was dreadful.  We were outplayed and outthought, and it could and should have been a bigger battering than the 4-0 end scoreline.  And that game came after similarly piss poor displays at Southampton and Bournemouth. 

So I don't think it's much of a stretch to say that he was taking us down at that point with barely a whimper, and had there not been a shut down and he'd lost to Chelsea I do think there'd have been a parting of the ways.

The effort to keep us up was nothing short of superb though.  Far more organisation, belief and spirit, and he deserves the credit for that.  Now I'm at the point where I still wouldn't be averse to a big hitter like Pochettino coming in, but I'm also now interested to see what Smith can do in his second season.  There excuses that he had this season have mostly gone, and if they sort the recruitment side then there's no reason at all that we should struggle so badly again.

Pretty much sums up my thoughts too.

Have been firmly in the Smith out camp and for the second season in a row he has found some late form and proven me wrong. Could not be more happy to eat humble pie and happy for him.

I would still replace him if a Pochettino came available, but equally now think he has earned a chance to carry the improvement into next season.

I do worry about recruitment policy, and hope that not having to sign a whole team will allow the team to focus on better players from better leagues. Some of the players that struggled this year will look better next, and with some good signings that come into the first team they can improve as squad players.

Onwards and upwards.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on July 27, 2020, 02:57:55 PM
Ketzster?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on July 27, 2020, 04:49:52 PM
 you mean as in alka seltzer?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on July 27, 2020, 04:50:45 PM
No as in the bloke who wanted Smith sacked the minute after we'd been promoted.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ketzster on July 27, 2020, 04:58:33 PM
Quote from: Ads on July 27, 2020, 04:50:45 PM
No as in the bloke who wanted Smith sacked the minute after we'd been promoted.

Ads I don’t know why you’re calling me out, I sent you a perfectly reasonable PM in February that you didn’t reply to.

I didn’t think Smith would keep us up, so he has surpassed my expectations. However, I still don’t think he is the right manager. We drew two and won two against four teams that were effectively on the beach. We saw how bad Everton were yesterday for example. He deserves a chance to go forwards, but we will see what happens in six weeks when all of the teams are up for it again. If after six games the same failings that were there before the Palace game return, I would hope a swift change would be made. Saying that, yes he did exceptionally well after the Man United game to turn it around
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on July 27, 2020, 05:01:20 PM
Have you sent Purslow a PM outlining this too?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on July 27, 2020, 05:03:31 PM
Quote from: mr underhill on July 27, 2020, 04:49:52 PM
you mean as in alka seltzer?

My favourite Beatles song you know.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 27, 2020, 05:06:47 PM
If Reina had been either a) a bit taller or b) capable of reacting faster than a rocking horse, we’d have won all four of the final games.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 27, 2020, 05:09:29 PM
Quote from: Ketzster on July 27, 2020, 04:58:33 PM
Quote from: Ads on July 27, 2020, 04:50:45 PM
No as in the bloke who wanted Smith sacked the minute after we'd been promoted.

Ads I don’t know why you’re calling me out, I sent you a perfectly reasonable PM in February that you didn’t reply to.

I didn’t think Smith would keep us up, so he has surpassed my expectations. However, I still don’t think he is the right manager. We drew two and won two against four teams that were effectively on the beach. We saw how bad Everton were yesterday for example. He deserves a chance to go forwards, but we will see what happens in six weeks when all of the teams are up for it again. If after six games the same failings that were there before the Palace game return, I would hope a swift change would be made. Saying that, yes he did exceptionally well after the Man United game to turn it around
I don't see much in that to take issue with really.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SamTheMouse on July 27, 2020, 05:15:37 PM
I think a lot of people tend to forget that this was Smith's first season managing in the top division, and it was always going to be a learning curve for him. He's no fool and I think he'll have taken on board plenty. The improved defensive stats bear that out.

If we sign two or three players of genuine quality, especially in wide positions and up front, I'm really hopeful he can achieve good things next year. Remember, Dyche got relegated with Burnley the first time around, and only stabilised them in the Premier League at the second time of asking. Dean has already bettered that.

He's one of us and I'm still rooting for him to do the business. The start of the new campaign can't come quick enough!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: supertom on July 27, 2020, 05:18:21 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on July 27, 2020, 05:06:47 PM
If Reina had been either a) a bit taller or b) capable of reacting faster than a rocking horse, we’d have won all four of the final games.
Probably, but also in fairness to Reina I think he was very good on the whole when he came back in, above all giving us a steady presence and experience that was invaluable. And I say that as someone who thought he looked largely shite prior to the lockdown. I don't think his impact on our final four games can be underestimated. I'd wanted Nyland to get his chance previously, and felt Reina had been pish, but post lock down it was increasingly clear that Nyland didn't have a strong enough mentality for a run of games. Had we stuck with him, we'd be down.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 27, 2020, 05:20:41 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on July 27, 2020, 05:06:47 PM
If Reina had been either a) a bit taller or b) capable of reacting faster than a rocking horse, we’d have won all four of the final games.

To nil, to boot.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 27, 2020, 05:22:41 PM
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on July 27, 2020, 05:20:41 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on July 27, 2020, 05:06:47 PM
If Reina had been either a) a bit taller or b) capable of reacting faster than a rocking horse, we’d have won all four of the final games.

To nil, to boot.
We seem to be taking great pride in something that didn't happen.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 27, 2020, 05:25:27 PM
I thought Reina was a sensible signing when we needed a back-up keeper although I was surprised he played so often. He was definitely at fault for Everton's goal, they could have scored from a similar position earlier and he could arguably have done better with the equalizer yesterday. But having said that,. I was glad he was in the team because of his experience and I wouldn't be against giving him another year. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: N'ZMAV on July 27, 2020, 05:26:43 PM
Smith completed this seasons objective - by the skin of his teeth.

Is he capable of achieving a tough/higher objective, without his best player and talisman? jury's out - but he deserves the chance.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 27, 2020, 05:28:14 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on July 27, 2020, 05:25:27 PM
I thought Reina was a sensible signing when we needed a back-up keeper although I was surprised he played so often. He was definitely at fault for Everton's goal, they could have scored from a similar position earlier and he could arguably have done better with the equalizer yesterday. But having said that,. I was glad he was in the team because of his experience and I wouldn't be against giving him another year.
Yep, I fully expect Heaton to take the jersey back as soon as it's possible, but I have more faith in Reina as a backup than Nyland.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on July 27, 2020, 05:29:07 PM
He did seem to bring that bit of extra confidence to the defence when he came back in, which is strange seeing what a mess he made of that goal up at Leicester. He was never convincing but his experience helped at the same time.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: N'ZMAV on July 27, 2020, 05:30:48 PM
Quote from: Clampy on July 27, 2020, 05:29:07 PM
He did seem to bring that bit of extra confidence to the defence when he came back in, which is strange seeing what a mess he made of that goal up at Leicester. He was never convincing but his experience helped at the same time.
Reina seemed really rusty when he first came in - I guess sitting on the bench at clubs for the past few years didn't help
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: danno on July 27, 2020, 05:33:03 PM
Depending on how far off from recovering Heaton and Steer are, I'd just try and loan Reina again.

Maybe that's harsh on Nyland but he makes me nervous.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: N'ZMAV on July 27, 2020, 05:33:36 PM
Nyland is not good enough, never has been, never will be.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 27, 2020, 05:40:15 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on July 27, 2020, 05:22:41 PM
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on July 27, 2020, 05:20:41 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on July 27, 2020, 05:06:47 PM
If Reina had been either a) a bit taller or b) capable of reacting faster than a rocking horse, we’d have won all four of the final games.

To nil, to boot.
We seem to be taking great pride in something that didn't happen.

Not really taking pride in anything, but it's fine margins, isn't it? Grealish leaves that shot alone, more than likely not a goal. Konsa makes a clearance he'd make far more often than not, not a goal.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 27, 2020, 05:40:31 PM
That high looping thing seems to catch out goalkeepers of a certain age, Seaman’s Sheilton now Reina.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 27, 2020, 05:42:54 PM
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on July 27, 2020, 05:40:15 PM
Not really taking pride in anything, but it's fine margins, isn't it? Grealish leaves that shot alone, more than likely not a goal. Konsa makes a clearance he'd make far more often than not, not a goal.
It sure is fine margins and some of them prevented us getting relegated, when ifs and buts are being talked about.  If Antonio scores in the first half, etc etc
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 27, 2020, 05:50:44 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on July 27, 2020, 05:42:54 PM
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on July 27, 2020, 05:40:15 PM
Not really taking pride in anything, but it's fine margins, isn't it? Grealish leaves that shot alone, more than likely not a goal. Konsa makes a clearance he'd make far more often than not, not a goal.
It sure is fine margins and some of them prevented us getting relegated, when ifs and buts are being talked about.  If Antonio scores in the first half, etc etc

But that's not what we were on about, we were discussing the merits of having an aging short arse in goal. And fwiw, if Antonio's shot had been on target, Reina would've saved it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: rougegorge on July 27, 2020, 06:41:07 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on July 27, 2020, 05:09:29 PM
Quote from: Ketzster on July 27, 2020, 04:58:33 PM
Quote from: Ads on July 27, 2020, 04:50:45 PM
No as in the bloke who wanted Smith sacked the minute after we'd been promoted.


Ads I don’t know why you’re calling me out, I sent you a perfectly reasonable PM in February that you didn’t reply to.

I didn’t think Smith would keep us up, so he has surpassed my expectations. However, I still don’t think he is the right manager. We drew two and won two against four teams that were effectively on the beach. We saw how bad Everton were yesterday for example. He deserves a chance to go forwards, but we will see what happens in six weeks when all of the teams are up for it again. If after six games the same failings that were there before the Palace game return, I would hope a swift change would be made. Saying that, yes he did exceptionally well after the Man United game to turn it around
I don't see much in that to take issue with really.
Nor me
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: rougegorge on July 27, 2020, 06:44:32 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on July 27, 2020, 05:40:31 PM
That high looping thing seems to catch out goalkeepers of a certain age, Seaman’s Sheilton now Reina.
Yes, although keepers have a good longevity, inevitably the athleticism will diminish.
Apart from some clownish moments pre-lockdown, he did bring some composure to the defence. I would keep him depending on when Heaton gets back.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on July 27, 2020, 06:51:02 PM
{alt}
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on July 27, 2020, 05:50:44 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on July 27, 2020, 05:42:54 PM
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on July 27, 2020, 05:40:15 PM
Not really taking pride in anything, but it's fine margins, isn't it? Grealish leaves that shot alone, more than likely not a goal. Konsa makes a clearance he'd make far more often than not, not a goal.
It sure is fine margins and some of them prevented us getting relegated, when ifs and buts are being talked about.  If Antonio scores in the first half, etc etc

But that's not what we were on about, we were discussing the merits of having an aging short arse in goal. And fwiw, if Antonio's shot had been on target, Reina would've saved it.
Yeah he had it covered no danger. I think signing Reina when we did helped to swung the balance in our favour in the end. The defence coming together at exactly the right time was in no small measure down to having a keeper with vast experience behind them. I would be happy to give him another year but he's gone back to Milan now so we'll have to wait and see. Would i call his signing a masterstroke? Not quite but not far off imo. So thanks for your efforts Pepe we'll be forever grateful.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 27, 2020, 08:18:17 PM
I'd rather have Nyland and/or Steer as back up, Reina is only going to get worse next season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Des Little on July 27, 2020, 08:21:04 PM
Reina won’t want to spend his remaining career sat on the bench.  I think it’s best to say a muchas gracias and adios.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on July 27, 2020, 08:21:21 PM
Steer for me. Nyland looked terrified.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on July 27, 2020, 08:22:01 PM
Heaton as number 1.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on July 27, 2020, 08:27:14 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on July 27, 2020, 08:18:17 PM
I'd rather have Nyland and/or Steer as back up, Reina is only going to get worse next season.

Depends how log it'll be before Heaton is fit. If he's gonig to miss the first 7-8 games I'd prefer to keep Reina.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on July 27, 2020, 08:27:30 PM
Nyland could have caught that looping ball. He'd have ended up in the back of the net with it, but he'd have caught it. 😏
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 27, 2020, 08:31:05 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on July 27, 2020, 05:42:54 PM
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on July 27, 2020, 05:40:15 PM
Not really taking pride in anything, but it's fine margins, isn't it? Grealish leaves that shot alone, more than likely not a goal. Konsa makes a clearance he'd make far more often than not, not a goal.
It sure is fine margins and some of them prevented us getting relegated, when ifs and buts are being talked about.  If Antonio scores in the first half, etc etc

Edited. Replaced by an apology.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on July 27, 2020, 08:37:20 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on July 27, 2020, 08:31:05 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on July 27, 2020, 05:42:54 PM
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on July 27, 2020, 05:40:15 PM
Not really taking pride in anything, but it's fine margins, isn't it? Grealish leaves that shot alone, more than likely not a goal. Konsa makes a clearance he'd make far more often than not, not a goal.
It sure is fine margins and some of them prevented us getting relegated, when ifs and buts are being talked about.  If Antonio scores in the first half, etc etc

Apologised.

Not really any need for that was there squire?!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 27, 2020, 08:41:58 PM
Quote from: Risso on July 27, 2020, 08:37:20 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on July 27, 2020, 08:31:05 PM
Quote from: hilts_coolerking on July 27, 2020, 05:42:54 PM
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on July 27, 2020, 05:40:15 PM
Not really taking pride in anything, but it's fine margins, isn't it? Grealish leaves that shot alone, more than likely not a goal. Konsa makes a clearance he'd make far more often than not, not a goal.
It sure is fine margins and some of them prevented us getting relegated, when ifs and buts are being talked about.  If Antonio scores in the first half, etc etc

Apologised.

Not really any need for that was there squire?!

No, probably not. Apologies to the poster concerned. I'm in a weird mood.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KevinGage on July 27, 2020, 08:43:53 PM
Quote from: Legion on July 27, 2020, 08:21:21 PM
Steer for me. Nyland looked terrified.

With a crowd - suspect.

Without a crowd - suspect.

Great performances in the cup.  But he always has those Sheff U and Wolves brainfarts in him.

He's one of the few keepers I've seen that even when he saves a shot he looks a liability.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 27, 2020, 08:46:45 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on July 27, 2020, 08:41:58 PM
No, probably not. Apologies to the poster concerned. I'm in a weird mood.
No need to apologise.  I like the cut and thrust.  Particularly the thrust.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VILLA MOLE on July 27, 2020, 08:55:31 PM
Looks like Suso
Has gone
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Footy-Vill on July 29, 2020, 05:58:26 PM
Still buzzin' how Deano has kept the club up . Along with the coaching staff has to have 100% full credit.
I totally love the way this man talks on bringing about an identity , a culture and a togetherness for the club.
It's nothing short of fantastic to me how hearing his footy educational talks that he gave during lockdown appraising each and every member of the squad and hearing feedback from them in how they can improve and do things better.

He's absolutely the guy for villa for me to take us further forward as he is building the right foundations and philosophy at the club.

What I hope for season 2020/21 that his methods become super effective to each current and future first teamer as villa push on.

I think he can develop a squad every bit as effective as Sheff Utd. Not only that , given time like Wilder- with Dean Smith we will win cup trophies soon and be right at the competing front in league formats within 3-4 years.
With our owners and Deano we will certainly want to sustain us a force in the premier league.
Tbh the way Grealish and Smith are together (mutual appreciation) be staggered if Jack would leave (as we stayed up) when this club is growing to be a leading contender.
Well played again Dean Smith watch out everyone We are premier league and here to stay ! 
Up the Villa !


Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on July 29, 2020, 06:04:48 PM
I've always liked Smith and never quite got to the wanting him sacked stage, although I wouldn't have been overly upset if it had happened at times this season.  My big fear was always who would they have replaced him with and if you look at the names they seemed to have been kicking around I'm glad it didn't happen.

Now we've survived I'm delighted for him and a certainly agree he deserves to stay on.  With that said, if Poch ends up at Newcastle after their takeover it would really feel like an opportunity missed to me.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on July 29, 2020, 06:14:31 PM
I agree Chris.  i'd like to see where we go with Dean as anyone keeping THAT squad up must be some kind of genius, although I suspect the additional time as a result of lockdown was used really well and we took full advantage of that break to bring SJM back too.  I wonder whether though, we might get to where we want to go, quicker, with someone like Pochettino instead.  I doubt very much we will find out unless we start the season badly and they can Dean, by which time, it may be too late.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on July 29, 2020, 06:17:59 PM
I’m delighted for Smith and like him a lot as a person,
he got us up and kept us up and for that he deserves our thanks

but I’ve still some major doubts over his management this season which haven’t gone away  because we stayed up
Just being honest
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on July 29, 2020, 06:32:27 PM
I am so happy to be wrong. In January I thought we were gone and discussed with friends that it might be better if he went. I put up an idea of Fat Sam for a 10 game period to keep us up pre COVID. I really thought Dean had done all he could. Well the facts are opinions aside, we came up under Dean, and stayed up under Dean so well done and I was wrong and it feels fantastic 😆
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: simboy on July 29, 2020, 06:34:56 PM
Yep

From a position of 14th in the Championship to Premiership survival via the playoffs and a cup final, with a (I think) 12 player squad including three keepers on promotion in 18 months. He kept us up with a very limited squad, recovering a 7point gap. Smith deserves to be sacked, doesn’t have a clue and really hasn’t achieved anything.



Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Footy-Vill on July 29, 2020, 06:45:42 PM
Give Deano the time he'll see us right.
I thought he was most honourable how he offered condolences to Mullins and Howe in relegation . (In his post match staying up  interview referred to them)
Class act .
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: algy on July 29, 2020, 06:52:23 PM
Quote from: Vill I An on July 29, 2020, 06:45:42 PM
Give Deano the time he'll see us right.
I thought he was most honourable how he offered condolences to Mullins and Howe in relegation . (In his post match staying up  interview referred to them)
Class act .
Yeah, I was struck by that. Nice touch from a decent chap.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: RamboandBruno on July 29, 2020, 06:56:19 PM
Quote from: john e on July 29, 2020, 06:17:59 PM
I’m delighted for Smith and like him a lot as a person,
he got us up and kept us up and for that he deserves our thanks

but I’ve still some major doubts over his management this season which haven’t gone away  because we stayed up
Just being honest

I think this is fine and everyone’s entitled to their opinion. On the whole I’ve been a huge supporter of his since his appointment even through the dark days of post Xmas 2018. Even so post Leicester away and post wolves at home, I thought maybe he could/possibly should go as he seemed to have lost his way. He did seem a bit out of his depth at times this season, but for me you could visibly see him grow into the role, tactically and mentally the last month or so. Standing back now the seasons over, despite the ups and downs of the team and his management, a 10 game winning run, Wembley win for the play off final, narrow Wembley defeat in one of the major domestic cups to a great side and staving off relegation with a team thrown together, is for me a pretty impressive 21 months.
A few top draw signings and I think we’ll do ok next year.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Footy-Vill on July 29, 2020, 07:21:35 PM
Quote from: algy on July 29, 2020, 06:52:23 PM
Quote from: Vill I An on July 29, 2020, 06:45:42 PM
Give Deano the time he'll see us right.
I thought he was most honourable how he offered condolences to Mullins and Howe in relegation . (In his post match staying up  interview referred to them)
Class act .
Yeah, I was struck by that. Nice touch from a decent chap.

Smith is One of the good guys in football.
I was struck how Micah Richards on sky few games back outed him saying Smith was too nice. That he doesn't have a go at the players - like that's the only way to manage ?!
I guess Richards was expecting coaches to have a go at players I guess.
Sure Dean is strong enough to get his point across without ranting and throwing things.
Too intelligent and emotionally controlled for that.
Richards also had respect in Smith said how straightforward Deano was in saying "you're not up to my level required to play football so you won't play"

I think Dean Smith straightforward approach and treating players like adults and sports professional is spot on.
I never enjoyed any coach shouting at me and Richards should understand life and sport has moved on to a level of communication of respect . So he's not understanding this yet was lauding Smith for being straightforward.

I have Deano communication style everyday of the week ahead of those antiquated Kevin McDonald types.
And felt Richards should recognise the difference in how a coach can motivate a player / team
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on July 30, 2020, 01:18:54 AM
Quote from: john e on July 29, 2020, 06:17:59 PM
I’m delighted for Smith and like him a lot as a person,
he got us up and kept us up and for that he deserves our thanks

but I’ve still some major doubts over his management this season which haven’t gone away  because we stayed up
Just being honest

He's a very, very lucky boy. Let's hope he learns a lesson on ten over the coming months.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: russon on July 30, 2020, 11:44:16 AM
I hear Paul Ince has bought a house in Lichfield , just sayin 😬
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Fred Crump on July 30, 2020, 11:51:35 AM
Quote from: russon on July 30, 2020, 11:44:16 AM
I hear Paul Ince has bought a house in Lichfield , just sayin 😬
Aaaargggh !!! There are some things so awful you just don’t joke about them !!  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on July 30, 2020, 11:52:58 AM
Lichfield's not that bad.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Fred Crump on July 30, 2020, 12:04:06 PM
Quote from: Legion on July 30, 2020, 11:52:58 AM
Lichfield's not that bad.
Chortle. We may have just started a run on property prices though ...
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: in exile on July 30, 2020, 12:57:21 PM
Quote from: russon on July 30, 2020, 11:44:16 AM
I hear Paul Ince has bought a house in Lichfield , just sayin 😬
Must be Jack's replacement.
So now we know the truth, he has bought a house in Cheshire and he's off.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on August 21, 2020, 08:42:31 PM
Decent interview with the boss: Clicky (https://video.avfc.co.uk/video/dm9kJTdDMF83YnBvdmhnMCU3QyUyRnNlY3Rpb24lM0ZzbHVnJTNEaG9tZSU3Q2hvbWUlMkZoZXJvX2Nhcm91c2Vs?lang=en)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on August 21, 2020, 08:44:20 PM
The inside story of the masterplan that saved Aston Villa

Aston Villa news | Dean Smith has lifted the lid on Villa's Premier League survival


It came right down to the wire but in the end Dean Smith and Aston Villa managed to achieve their goal last season - of finding safety in the Premier League.

On the final day, against West Ham, it took just a few moments following the final whistle for Villa to confirm their place in the 20/21 season.

The team took some flack throughout the campaign, but a desire to improve and the perfect opportunity to do so was utilised by the team and Smith.

That started out with some home truths, though.

"I just got the coaches' heads together. Myself, Richard O'Kelly, JT [John Terry] and Neil Cutler and tried to figure out with the analysts why we felt we had conceded so many shots and big chances (expected goals), and goals,” said Smith during a walk and talk interview with Villa's club website.

"We came up with a plan. I felt we had to be harder to beat rather than just going all out to win games.

"I felt players needed a meeting with me one-to-one for me to tell them how I thought they;d done and for me to listen to them, to get their thoughts on how they thought they had done and what they needed to improve on."

"We ended up having group meetings then. In small groups we discussed defensive patterns and shapes, what they feel, what I feel we could improve on. Then I got them to analyse their own performances in a group. They then, as small groups, had to feed back to me with their thoughts.

That type of self-reflection as a group can be needed - but it can also be painful, with Smith admitting himself that it wasn't the easiest thing to do, although it was needed. With Villa's season in tatters after a crushing loss at Leicester before the lockdown, a new approach was needed.

[Was it brutal?] A little bit, yeah," winced the head coach. "But it was needed. The players needed to know where I wanted to go. They also needed a pointer, and direction. I felt after that relegation that the players felt they were a relegated team. I had to change that, however I could."

A new Villa emerged after lockdown, and while they had some help (thanks to a goal-line issue with Hawkeye against Sheffield United), Villa pushed themselves to safety - with Smith keeping stuck on course thanks to expected goals (xG), despite some early worries.

xG was able to help Villa stick to their new plan, with clear improvements emerging in the underlying metrics of each game post-lockdown.

"We kept Sheffield United to 0.3 expected goals which takes some doing. I talk about expected goals, but it's only a marker. Lots of things happen in games. Then we played Chelsea who had plenty of the ball and beat us with a deflected goal 2-1.

"Again, our expected goals was 0.7 to their 0.8. With that as a marker, I could say that we were improving defensively."

Smith's use of expected goals in post-match interviews led to frustration from fans - who wanted to see actual results, instead of 'expected' ones. The former was the only way Villa were going to get points, but the latter kept the team believing.

"The results weren't coming. We got two points from the first four games, but all the players felt that they were defending better. The big problem was that we weren't converting our chances. We created a lot of chances at the start of the season, but conceded a lot as well."

It wasn't always the case that Villa would start the season - again - though. With the global pandemic hitting a peak, talks did centre around stopping the 19/20 season entirely. However, Smith kept focused on his main goal, of keeping Villa solid, and keeping them up - with a cool head.

"It's my job - I've been in professional football since I was 16. I've gone from game to game looking to win. You have short-term goals and long-term goals and I have never lost sight of that.  It was a tough time for a lot of people. I realised early that the lockdown could give us a great opportunity to reset ourselves. We had ten games to change ourselves and get out of trouble."

"I've trained myself to have a certain emotional control. I remember getting the Walsall job and losing the game one-nil. I went into the dressing room after and had a go at the lads, then walking into my own room before going into the press conference. I had a headache and thought 'I don't need this!' then I just thought - I need the players again next week, do they need me ranting at them when I can just have a day away and speak then a bit more rationally about the game?"

"I went for the latter thing. You're not going to get anything straight after a game. On the sideline they need to see somebody who is in control. If I'm not in control, it allows them to not be in control."

Time away for reflection is key to Smith's planing at Villa - and that involves recreation, and the famous 'dog-walking'.

"Golf, I play off 12, I have a regular group I play with to take my mind off things, but don't play enough to get the handicap down. It's a thinking game, you have to think yourself around the course. I played chess as a young lad, so I've always been a strategic thinker. It gives me time away.

"I've spoken about the dog walks, I've got a working Cocker Spaniel. He needs a walk. We've been to Scotland and I looked at my watch - we did 23,000 steps so he's certainly had a walk! It's great for thinking time.

"I remember talking to Neil Lennon - Bolton manager at the time - and he said 'why are you so calm all the time?' It's the dog. They have such an impact and he thanked me later! Win, lose or draw, it's unconditional love the moment you walk through the door. You need that, and the time away. It's all consuming, is football.

"I looked at myself when Jack [Grealish] scored that goal against West Ham and it looked like a lot of stress was released. We got the job done, but that was the important thing.

That has now set up a second season at the top for Villa and Smith, who likely won't have a large break in the middle of the season this time around. They need to start as they mean to go on.

"We've learned lessons, players and staff alike. When we do have our downtime, we have to get our own headspace. We don't have a position target. Our points tally last year was nowhere near what we set out to achieve. The goals are to improve. Getting 0.4 of a point extra per game gets you into the top 12. Those small margins you need to work on, we're working hard to get that right.

"Our objective last season was to stay up, we did that but by the skin of our teeth. We do not want to go through that again, we want to be a club that is progressing.

"We want to improve and get better. I've always thought one of my strengths is that I can improve players. I think everyone wants to learn and get better. That's what we need to focus on as coaches, improving those players and making sure they are getting better. If they get better, Aston Villa gets better and we can stay in our jobs."

There will still be a few changes for Villa though - who will start the season without fans in the stadium, a big miss for Smith.

"It's not that good. I hope we can get them back in, in some shape or form. Six games at a full Villa Park would've been a help for us - but we got through it. Our fans help us get over the line. I hope they are back in some capacity. That's what makes football."
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on August 21, 2020, 08:46:32 PM
Beat me to it sorry SE.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on August 21, 2020, 08:49:05 PM
Mine was a (long) link to the video version so you were just adding to life's rich pageant.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on August 21, 2020, 08:56:17 PM
Great interview though.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on August 21, 2020, 09:44:39 PM
Not a comment on DS but crikey, this xG stuff is a load of old horseshit.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on August 21, 2020, 09:49:54 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on August 21, 2020, 09:44:39 PM
Not a comment on DS but crikey, this xG stuff is a load of old horseshit.

I completely agree. I'm all for an increased use of analytics in football but expected goals is a nonsense.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on August 21, 2020, 09:52:27 PM
It's just a measure of the chances you're creating/conceding, isn't it (unless I've misunderstood, which happens)? I can't see the problem if so.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OCD on August 21, 2020, 09:56:48 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on August 21, 2020, 09:44:39 PM
Not a comment on DS but crikey, this xG stuff is a load of old horseshit.

Sounds like it played an important part in keeping spirits up when results could have led to resignation that we were going down.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on August 21, 2020, 09:58:35 PM
It's not unfortunately. It's defined by Opta Sports as follows:
"Expected goals (xG) measures the quality of a shot based on several variables such as assist type, shot angle and distance from goal, whether it was a headed shot and whether it was defined as a big chance."

In other words, a whole load of bollocks, IMO.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on August 21, 2020, 10:05:16 PM
I much prefer some level of analytics being employed these days instead of ‘we were excellent’ and ‘canon laaadds’ under lambert and Sherwood.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on August 21, 2020, 10:17:26 PM
So do I, but I also think you need to be able to justify your methodology. It's not going to be useful in any applied sense unless it's grounded in reality.

It's the same as analytics in finance or industry - you can make data say anything you want really, but insights are only useful insofar as they're actionable. If they're just made up calculations for the sake of putting a percentage or other metric on a page/graph, then they're as good as useless.

Personally I don't see how xG helps Aston Villa in any way except to show how useless we are at scoring goals at the moment. Which any fucking eejit with a pair of eyes can see.

DS has used it in the context of "We may not be winning games but our expected goals has improved", but surely that just means you're creating chances that you can't finish. Which again....... see above.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on August 21, 2020, 10:27:37 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on August 21, 2020, 09:44:39 PM
Not a comment on DS but crikey, this xG stuff is a load of old horseshit.

Totally.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on August 21, 2020, 10:34:11 PM
Well, it seems to have worked.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on August 21, 2020, 10:35:48 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on August 21, 2020, 10:34:11 PM
Well, it seems to have worked.

You could argue that the break due to the Covid19 pandemic was the major factor.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Des Little on August 21, 2020, 10:36:31 PM
Wonder if xG was a factor for El Ghazi’s miss of the season at Everton?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on August 21, 2020, 10:37:14 PM
xG= (Cc/10 x 2PgS) - (Mc.5-VAR)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on August 21, 2020, 10:39:37 PM
Quote from: Des Little on August 21, 2020, 10:36:31 PM
Wonder if xG was a factor for El Ghazi’s miss of the season at Everton?

Hardly the miss of the season. See Sterling. Or did you mean for us? If so, the one by Davis was worse for me.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on August 21, 2020, 10:46:54 PM
Quote from: Des Little on August 21, 2020, 10:36:31 PM
Wonder if xG was a factor for El Ghazi’s miss of the season at Everton?

G is for Gash. 

Good interview but I wish some bugger would ask him about transfers.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on August 21, 2020, 11:08:26 PM
Quote from: Legion on August 21, 2020, 10:39:37 PM
Quote from: Des Little on August 21, 2020, 10:36:31 PM
Wonder if xG was a factor for El Ghazi’s miss of the season at Everton?

Hardly the miss of the season. See Sterling. Or did you mean for us? If so, the one by Davis was worse for me.

El Ghazi was about four foot from goal.  Much worse.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Monty on August 21, 2020, 11:36:52 PM
I think xG is basically the idea that 'stats work on their own' putting up the white flag and dying.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on August 21, 2020, 11:45:04 PM
El Ghazi was off side wasnt he?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on August 21, 2020, 11:49:53 PM
Big thing is needing to defend crosses better. It actually still wasn't great post lockdown when you think of Chelsea's two goals, man mountain Walcott ghosting in at the back post to head in and even in the Arsenal game that free header that hit the post from a corner late on.

We simply give away too many free headers in our box so interested to see what the DS solution is. Buy a new CB or tell Mings to man mark more than zonally or make sure we get enough behind the ball to stop crosses coming in the first place. The top teams are of course excellent at quick passing triangles to drag full backs infield as Chelsea did very well in the second half, Targett was practically a third CB when they were crossing.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on August 22, 2020, 02:00:48 AM
Not once does he say he made any mistakes. I fully accept the players made them, but it would nice to have read that he acknowledges he made tactical errors, or picked the wrong players at times, or not made the right subs during the game. Maybe he keeps that to himself but then if he’s going to do that maybe he should keep how the players did to himself also. I’m delighted we stayed up up but if HE doesn’t improve or realize he needs to we won’t collectively and he’ll be out of a job. He won’t get anything like the same rope when the new season gets going again.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on August 22, 2020, 02:36:17 AM
That's the spirit!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KevinGage on August 22, 2020, 03:54:59 AM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on August 22, 2020, 02:00:48 AM
Not once does he say he made any mistakes. I fully accept the players made them, but it would nice to have read that he acknowledges he made tactical errors, or picked the wrong players at times, or not made the right subs during the game. Maybe he keeps that to himself but then if he’s going to do that maybe he should keep how the players did to himself also. I’m delighted we stayed up up but if HE doesn’t improve or realize he needs to we won’t collectively and he’ll be out of a job. He won’t get anything like the same rope when the new season gets going again.

For me, the concerning thing is we all felt we were getting a young, vibrant tracksuit manager in October 2018. We had an OK start back then, gash New Year  > March period and then cleaned up when Jack returned. At its best, that side played attacking football on the front foot, for the most part. So you try to gloss over the negative.

Fast forward to to the start of the Prem and - after a ropey first two games - we beat Everton 2-0. On another night we could have lost that one 3-1 and had no complaints. The Bluescouse were anaemic in front of goal for all their possession so happy days.
 The concerning thing for me after that game is Smudger was asked what he did different after the first half and he said his instructions were to get the ball long to Wesley.  Fantastic. It's like we were never away.

I remember soon after Lansbury joined in 2007 and we played Brentford away. For the first 20 minutes he was spraying then ball around like Zidane and causing them all sorts of grief. Post game Smith said his Brentford lot pushed 10 yards higher and nullified him.  Simple but smart.

Has the Villa job neutered him and turned him into a Bruce/Gregory/O'Neill disciple.   Minimum risk, keep it tight and hope for the best. Tall centre backs at full back are all to familiar to us. Hopefully they were a means to an end post lockdown. And now, with the benefit security, we'll see a more progressive approach.  Billy McBingo's 'tactics' were get the ball to Walters, he goes down the wing and 'bingo.'   O'Neill's tactics towards the latter period were get the ball to Ashley Young and not much else.

I hope against hope that Deano isn't following a similar path and putting all our eggs in one basket re getting the ball to Grealish. Football has moved on.  So should we. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on August 22, 2020, 11:01:02 AM
Quote from: Legion on August 21, 2020, 10:35:48 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on August 21, 2020, 10:34:11 PM
Well, it seems to have worked.

You could argue that the break due to the Covid19 pandemic was the major factor.
Agree if the Chelsea result had happened in March I don’t think he would have got the chance to reorganise. However I am happy to give credit where it is due and he did keep us up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on August 22, 2020, 11:09:22 AM
Good post Gagey. Time moves on quickly but the Villa's style not so much.
*The Lansbury Brentford game should probably read 2017.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on August 22, 2020, 12:05:24 PM
"We came up with a plan. I felt we had to be harder to beat rather than just going all out to win games."

It's a shame that plan wasn't implemented at the start of the season. Sheff Utd had that plan from the start, had the second best defence for most of the season, scored less goals than us but never looked in trouble. Promoted team use same tactics as in the Championship and are surprised they get ripped apart week in, week out in the PL with the second worst defensive record in the league.

Credit to Smith for changing his plan and finally getting it right (just) but his original plan was straight out of the text books of General Haig.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on August 22, 2020, 12:16:48 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on August 22, 2020, 12:05:24 PM
"We came up with a plan. I felt we had to be harder to beat rather than just going all out to win games."

It's a shame that plan wasn't implemented at the start of the season. Sheff Utd had that plan from the start, had the second best defence for most of the season, scored less goals than us but never looked in trouble. Promoted team use same tactics as in the Championship and are surprised they get ripped apart week in, week out in the PL with the second worst defensive record in the league.

Credit to Smith for changing his plan and finally getting it right (just) but his original plan was straight out of the text books of General Haig.
You're right, Rudy, and I think Naaarwich went down the same route as us and got mullered (even by us!).

Re the xG thing, if it gave them all the focus that meant they were tighter defensively, I don;t really care that the stat is made of horseshit.
The question I'd be asking is: "what will galvanise and focus the guys for the upcoming season?"
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chris Smith on August 22, 2020, 12:56:16 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on August 22, 2020, 12:05:24 PM
"We came up with a plan. I felt we had to be harder to beat rather than just going all out to win games."

It's a shame that plan wasn't implemented at the start of the season. Sheff Utd had that plan from the start, had the second best defence for most of the season, scored less goals than us but never looked in trouble. Promoted team use same tactics as in the Championship and are surprised they get ripped apart week in, week out in the PL with the second worst defensive record in the league.

Credit to Smith for changing his plan and finally getting it right (just) but his original plan was straight out of the text books of General Haig.

Huge difference though between us and Sheffield United, they could implement a plan immediately as it was largely the same group of players that had got promoted and did not have the added issue of the play offs to negotiate. We didn’t have that luxury so were trying to implement it with a load of recently signed players who were also new to English football. When we did get the chance  due to the season break we were able to improve sufficiently to keep us up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on August 22, 2020, 01:08:32 PM
I was disappointed with Smith last season, I like him as a person and the fact he's a Vila fan but he wasn't getting much right for me or learning a great deal on the job either

but we did stay up and I was coming round to giving him the benefit of the doubt and believing we could push on next season but after reading that bullshit interview I'm not so sure anymore
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on August 22, 2020, 01:11:12 PM
I fully recognise the difference and advantage Sheff Utd had in keeping the majority of their squad together but the point still stands, Chris, we had a choice of which plan to adapt, they played it safe and picked up the points, we went the complete opposite, failed and survived by "the skin of our teeth".
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on August 22, 2020, 01:57:33 PM
This is the thing, we wanted attractive football, scoring more than the opposition rather than conceding less.

It didn't quite work in a number of games, but when the emphasis shifted after lockdown we were ok. And I think we're all agreed that if we'd started by just trying to defend we'd have been really pissed off as that is exactly the approach Smith's predecessor tried.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on August 22, 2020, 02:06:55 PM
Quote from: Drummond on August 22, 2020, 01:57:33 PM
This is the thing, we wanted attractive football, scoring more than the opposition rather than conceding less.

It didn't quite work in a number of games, but when the emphasis shifted after lockdown we were ok. And I think we're all agreed that if we'd started by just trying to defend we'd have been really pissed off as that is exactly the approach Smith's predecessor tried.

I never saw this so called attractive football before lockdown it’s a total myth
we were consistently awful

after lockdown we did just enough
10 points from 10 games isn’t very good but was better than the rubbish we were before

anyone thinking we can carry on that form next season and be ok will be disappointing
we are getting carried away with what we perceive to be ‘good form after lockdown

we need to set our sights a lot do a lot higher  than that
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on August 22, 2020, 02:09:59 PM
Quote from: Drummond on August 22, 2020, 01:57:33 PM
This is the thing, we wanted attractive football, scoring more than the opposition rather than conceding less.

It didn't quite work in a number of games, but when the emphasis shifted after lockdown we were ok. And I think we're all agreed that if we'd started by just trying to defend we'd have been really pissed off as that is exactly the approach Smith's predecessor tried.

It wasn’t so much that. If we were just tactically disciplined that would have been more than enough. You have to know when and how to defend. How to close out games. Every team knew or got to know that we were vulnerable with lead late in games and took full advantage of it. Especially the top sides. I can only imagine how over time that just chipped away at the confidence and belief of the players. The Liverpool game sticks out because of just how well we played, but you almost knew they would equalize and ultimately win. And they did. It’s crushing for us as fans but the players feel it too. What we did after the break was almost foreign to all we’d done before in terms of defensive structure, but even then there were things that reared their ugly head. Late goals conceded vs Everton and even West Ham.

So lots to do. Lots still to improve upon. I’m glad we improved but the manager played a huge role as to why we were so in trouble in the first place as much as one of the key reasons we stayed up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on August 22, 2020, 02:12:11 PM
Quote from: john e on August 22, 2020, 02:06:55 PM
Quote from: Drummond on August 22, 2020, 01:57:33 PM
This is the thing, we wanted attractive football, scoring more than the opposition rather than conceding less.

It didn't quite work in a number of games, but when the emphasis shifted after lockdown we were ok. And I think we're all agreed that if we'd started by just trying to defend we'd have been really pissed off as that is exactly the approach Smith's predecessor tried.

I never saw this so called attractive football before lockdown it’s a total myth
we were consistently awful

after lockdown we did just enough
10 points from 10 games isn’t very good but was better than the rubbish we were before

anyone thinking we can carry on that form next season and be ok will be disappointing
we are getting carried away with what we perceive to be ‘good for after lockdown

we need to set our sights a lot do a lot higher  than that


The start of the season we played some very decent stuff at times. Once our belief was shot losing/blowing so many games we started to play scared and very much within ourselves and our football was often horrendous.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on August 22, 2020, 02:53:13 PM
Looking back over the season there was one constant, something screaming out so loud and it took a global epidemic for it to be addressed; the goals against column. My concern has been and remains the ability of Dean to change things when they're not going right. Brentford fans pointed this out to us when he joined, we witnessed it ourselves in our promotional season after the 4-2 win against the Rags, one win in 13 games, so it looks very much like a trait.

That said, things are more settled now than they have been for years, we need a few additions absolutely but no massive changes. This will be the season to judge Dean. I like him as a fella but right now he's not the manager I thought he was. I wish him all the luck in the world but fear he may have used it all up last season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on August 22, 2020, 03:32:41 PM
I think Dean will be under pressure from the off as the owners will want much better performances this coming season.  His reward for keeping us up is quite rightly another crack at the Premier League and I hope we get the players in to take us to the next level.  But, Dean needs to say less and deliver more.  I don't believe in some of the things he says but I do want him to succeed and just like the players have a years more experience and should improve for it, I expect the same of Dean Smith.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT on August 22, 2020, 04:09:53 PM
Dean won’t be a rookie PL manager next season. The players won’t be PL rookies either.

I’m hoping that with the additions we need, we will have enough skill and savvy about us not to be in another relegation battle.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on August 22, 2020, 04:32:11 PM
Quote from: CT on August 22, 2020, 04:09:53 PM
Dean won’t be a rookie PL manager next season. The players won’t be PL rookies either.

I’m hoping that with the additions we need, we will have enough skill and savvy about us not to be in another relegation battle.

Agreed, CT. It's not just being a PL manager, it's the dimension of the roll with all the responsibilities of a club our size. I'm delighted he's brought in Shakespeare to the backroom team. Hopefully with Lange reporting directly to the owners and a new recruitment chap, Dean will have more time to focus on the 1st team squad. There were times this year he looked completely knackered. He's normally so chirpy and positive, you couldn't help but notice he was suffering.

It was a tough year for everybody, ourselves included. I wish him the best and glad he's still here.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on August 22, 2020, 04:59:57 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on August 22, 2020, 04:32:11 PM
Quote from: CT on August 22, 2020, 04:09:53 PM
Dean won’t be a rookie PL manager next season. The players won’t be PL rookies either.

I’m hoping that with the additions we need, we will have enough skill and savvy about us not to be in another relegation battle.

Agreed, CT. It's not just being a PL manager, it's the dimension of the roll with all the responsibilities of a club our size. I'm delighted he's brought in Shakespeare to the backroom team. Hopefully with Lange reporting directly to the owners and a new recruitment chap, Dean will have more time to focus on the 1st team squad. There were times this year he looked completely knackered. He's normally so chirpy and positive, you couldn't help but notice he was suffering.

It was a tough year for everybody, ourselves included. I wish him the best and glad he's still here.

It was a tough season, and there wasn't much of a gap after the season before either. Add in to that his Dad's passing and all-in-all he deserves a break.

I think he clearly used the Covid-19 enforced break to great effect. He knows what his players are capable of and he'll have a fully fit McGinn and Heaton to call on again. With some shrewd additions in key places (to strengthen the team rather than the squad) let's hope we see the form and results of the last 4 games replicated.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on August 22, 2020, 05:16:40 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on August 22, 2020, 02:53:13 PM
Looking back over the season there was one constant, something screaming out so loud and it took a global epidemic for it to be addressed; the goals against column. My concern has been and remains the ability of Dean to change things when they're not going right...That said, things are more settled now than they have been for years, we need a few additions absolutely but no massive changes. This will be the season to judge Dean. I like him as a fella but right now he's not the manager I thought he was. I wish him all the luck in the world but fear he may have used it all up last season.
I'm hoping that having Shakey with him this season will bring extra insight and experience; not just in training but in selection and game-management.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: algy on August 22, 2020, 08:14:35 PM
As far as xG is concerned, it's one statistic and so should be treated as such, but I'm glad we're embracing it. We need to be at the cutting edge of the sport, which at the moment seems to be in using analytics heavily.

Of course, it's ultimately goals & points which count, but if it helps target the areas in training which will bring the biggest benefit, or be able to highlight if a player we're watching will fit in to our playing style or not, that can only be a good thing.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on August 22, 2020, 08:31:59 PM
Quote from: algy on August 22, 2020, 08:14:35 PM
As far as xG is concerned, it's one statistic and so should be treated as such, but I'm glad we're embracing it. We need to be at the cutting edge of the sport, which at the moment seems to be in using analytics heavily.

Of course, it's ultimately goals & points which count, but if it helps target the areas in training which will bring the biggest benefit, or be able to highlight if a player we're watching will fit in to our playing style or not, that can only be a good thing.

xG could well be the reason we ended up with Wesley and Samatta instead of goalscorers capable of consistency at this level.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on August 22, 2020, 08:51:19 PM
It's possible that DS used hundreds of different datasets but chose to mention xG because he knew it was the only one his audience would have heard of.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on August 22, 2020, 09:02:01 PM
xG is a far better reflection on how a game went than simply chances and shots as it factors context into its calculation. As stats go, s'alright.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on August 22, 2020, 09:03:39 PM
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on August 22, 2020, 09:02:01 PM
xG is a far better reflection on how a game went than simply chances and shots as it factors context into its calculation. As stats go, s'alright.

As with all invented metrics, it depends on how it's applied.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dante Lavelli on August 22, 2020, 11:32:23 PM
Measuring xG is a smart move.  Intangible enough to be impossible to accurately measure yet a good barometer of performance in games.  A run of bad luck/results could mean wholesale changes yet the underlying performances/trend is positive.

it is also slightly otherworldly so allows the coaches to engineer (blind) faith in their approach rather than just the results.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on August 22, 2020, 11:47:00 PM
Sod this xG malarcky, Stick the ball in the net for real and then count it  all up after game! Easy peasy and far more tangible, oh, and measurable.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on August 23, 2020, 01:10:51 AM
The point of xG is to try to give a idea of how fair a reflection of performances the results are. We've all watched games where a team has been battered for 89 minutes and then snatched a late winner, it's numbers to back up that feeling of good/bad luck. I like it because it's normally a pretty fair reflection of the game. For example of our last 4 games it suggests:

-West Ham was pretty even with us having the better chances and they scored a fluke, Antonio missed their best chance
-Arsenal was pretty even but we scored a goal from a very tough chance and they missed a comparative sitter through Nketiah before we closed shop and defended well for the last 15-20mins
-Everton both teams missed a very good chance (El Ghazi and Calvert-Lewin), we scored from our other good chance and they scored one that came from nothing and we should've dealt with
-Palace we had the 3 best chances, scored 2 of them and Samatta missed the other, Palace had a few attempts but nothing you'd call a good chance except a tough one for Van Aarnholt

Does anyone disagree with any of those being a fair reflection of the games?

These stats don't replace watching the game and following play, they just back up that gut feeling we all get.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on August 23, 2020, 02:00:28 AM
I kinda miss FootySkillz. He would weigh-in with an interesting take on this.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Gareth on August 23, 2020, 07:01:40 AM
For all this xG nonsense the basics of not being able to defend the area betw the width of the penalty area to the touch line has to be addressed or those crosses raining in will cost Dean his job
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: algy on August 23, 2020, 09:36:13 AM
Quote from: paul_e on August 23, 2020, 01:10:51 AM
The point of xG is to try to give a idea of how fair a reflection of performances the results are. We've all watched games where a team has been battered for 89 minutes and then snatched a late winner, it's numbers to back up that feeling of good/bad luck. I like it because it's normally a pretty fair reflection of the game. For example of our last 4 games it suggests:

-West Ham was pretty even with us having the better chances and they scored a fluke, Antonio missed their best chance
-Arsenal was pretty even but we scored a goal from a very tough chance and they missed a comparative sitter through Nketiah before we closed shop and defended well for the last 15-20mins
-Everton both teams missed a very good chance (El Ghazi and Calvert-Lewin), we scored from our other good chance and they scored one that came from nothing and we should've dealt with
-Palace we had the 3 best chances, scored 2 of them and Samatta missed the other, Palace had a few attempts but nothing you'd call a good chance except a tough one for Van Aarnholt

Does anyone disagree with any of those being a fair reflection of the games?

These stats don't replace watching the game and following play, they just back up that gut feeling we all get.
That's pretty much my view too, along with what SE said about quite possibly using other datasets and that xG was just the one people are most familiar with/he was willing to let on that we put focus on.

Not saying it should be the be-all-and-end-all, but i think we should absolutely be using statistical analysis to improve as many areas of the club as we can. E.g. xG could reasonably be used to measure if we're creating better chances for the forwards, even if they're not scoring those. Or if we're restricting the opposition to more difficult shots for that matter. We should also be able to measure how effective stuff like fitness training is, both if the players can keep going for 90+ mins, but also if we've got the right balance of sprints vs jogging for each position.

I suppose where i'm going is that the focus for sort of stats should be to measure the effectiveness of training rather than absolute performance of the team.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Fred Crump on August 23, 2020, 10:03:38 AM
Quote from: eamonn on August 23, 2020, 02:00:28 AM
I kinda miss FootySkillz. He would weigh-in with an interesting take on this.
I miss Footy/ Vill I  an too, is he taking one of his sabbaticals again? He could always be relied upon to come at things from an ‘alternative’ viewpoint, which is surely what a Football chat forum should be about, I guess. I get the impression that he was a bit of a sensitive soul and sometimes was hurt by the stick we gave him. If so, don’t take it too seriously Footy , and please come back soon.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on August 23, 2020, 11:52:15 AM
Yeah, I think he said he'd be back in September.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Damo70 on August 23, 2020, 05:00:04 PM
Quote from: Newby on August 22, 2020, 11:47:00 PM
Sod this xG malarcky, Stick the ball in the net for real and then count it  all up after game! Easy peasy and far more tangible, oh, and measurable.


I miss the good old days of Alan Hansen telling me about "shocking" defending and how you won't win anything with kids.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sdwbvf on August 23, 2020, 05:06:03 PM
Don't Liverpool have a team of 20 odd statisticians? It doesn't seem to have done them any harm.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on August 23, 2020, 05:10:04 PM
Quote from: Sdwbvf on August 23, 2020, 05:06:03 PM
Don't Liverpool have a team of 20 odd statisticians? It doesn't seem to have done them any harm.

We just have one. His name is Footyskillz
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: charlatan on August 23, 2020, 05:23:37 PM
Quote from: Sdwbvf on August 23, 2020, 05:06:03 PM
Don't Liverpool have a team of 20 odd statisticians? It doesn't seem to have done them any harm.

Apparently last season they managed to outperform their xGD by a net 15 goals and bag 25 extra points as a result.
https://understat.com/league/EPL
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on August 23, 2020, 05:33:44 PM
🙄
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sdwbvf on August 23, 2020, 06:59:16 PM
Quote from: charlatan on August 23, 2020, 05:23:37 PM
Quote from: Sdwbvf on August 23, 2020, 05:06:03 PM
Don't Liverpool have a team of 20 odd statisticians? It doesn't seem to have done them any harm.

Apparently last season they managed to outperform their xGD by a net 15 goals and bag 25 extra points as a result.
https://understat.com/league/EPL

And we underperformed by 5 points
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on August 23, 2020, 07:06:27 PM
The most interesting thing about that is that it backs up the people who think Bruce is a fucking shit manager.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sdwbvf on August 23, 2020, 08:26:33 PM
On expected points us Newcastle and Norwich went down. And we underperformed expected points as well.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mike on August 23, 2020, 08:30:43 PM
I think xG is a good way of identifying where you were lucky/unlucky in a match. Like all statistics, it has a place and also has limitations. Regardless of that, I'm not sure whether Dean Smith is a good manager or not. hope that helps the debate.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: N'ZMAV on August 23, 2020, 08:44:04 PM
I like the stats of the most goals win :)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Allan C on August 23, 2020, 08:54:38 PM
Quote from: Sdwbvf on August 23, 2020, 05:06:03 PM
Don't Liverpool have a team of 20 odd statisticians? It doesn't seem to have done them any harm.
Along with a team of fabulous hard working footballers which I think is more to the point
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: RamboandBruno on August 23, 2020, 10:19:24 PM
Quote from: Allan C on August 23, 2020, 08:54:38 PM
Quote from: Sdwbvf on August 23, 2020, 05:06:03 PM
Don't Liverpool have a team of 20 odd statisticians? It doesn't seem to have done them any harm.
Along with a team of fabulous hard working footballers which I think is more to the point

That will never catch on!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sdwbvf on August 23, 2020, 10:51:41 PM
And the statisticians provide the data to inform the coaching which is what the players are working hard on.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on August 23, 2020, 11:18:26 PM
Quote from: Sdwbvf on August 23, 2020, 05:06:03 PM
Don't Liverpool have a team of 20 odd statisticians? It doesn't seem to have done them any harm.

What's odd about them?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: WilliamStanding on August 24, 2020, 02:44:54 AM
They are even beginning to believe their own hype.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on August 24, 2020, 09:44:08 AM
Quote from: Allan C on August 23, 2020, 08:54:38 PM
Quote from: Sdwbvf on August 23, 2020, 05:06:03 PM
Don't Liverpool have a team of 20 odd statisticians? It doesn't seem to have done them any harm.
Along with a team of fabulous hard working footballers which I think is more to the point

And a manager who’s probably the best in the business right now
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brend'Watkins on August 24, 2020, 10:22:11 AM
Quote from: john e on August 24, 2020, 09:44:08 AM
Quote from: Allan C on August 23, 2020, 08:54:38 PM
Quote from: Sdwbvf on August 23, 2020, 05:06:03 PM
Don't Liverpool have a team of 20 odd statisticians? It doesn't seem to have done them any harm.
Along with a team of fabulous hard working footballers which I think is more to the point

And a manager who’s probably the best in the business right now

Hans-Dieter Flick might have something to say about that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on August 24, 2020, 10:39:23 AM
Quote from: Bren'd on August 24, 2020, 10:22:11 AM
Quote from: john e on August 24, 2020, 09:44:08 AM
Quote from: Allan C on August 23, 2020, 08:54:38 PM
Quote from: Sdwbvf on August 23, 2020, 05:06:03 PM
Don't Liverpool have a team of 20 odd statisticians? It doesn't seem to have done them any harm.
Along with a team of fabulous hard working footballers which I think is more to the point

And a manager who’s probably the best in the business right now

Hans-Dieter Flick might have something to say about that.
Or as he likes to known when the wind is blowing, Herr Flick.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brazilian Villain on August 24, 2020, 11:36:11 AM
Quote from: Drummond on August 23, 2020, 11:18:26 PM
Quote from: Sdwbvf on August 23, 2020, 05:06:03 PM
Don't Liverpool have a team of 20 odd statisticians? It doesn't seem to have done them any harm.

What's odd about them?

Well, for a start they're statisticians. As the old joke goes, actuaries are people who find studying accountancy too exciting.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dave P on August 24, 2020, 12:58:37 PM
Quote from: Sdwbvf on August 23, 2020, 06:59:16 PM
Quote from: charlatan on August 23, 2020, 05:23:37 PM
Quote from: Sdwbvf on August 23, 2020, 05:06:03 PM
Don't Liverpool have a team of 20 odd statisticians? It doesn't seem to have done them any harm.

Apparently last season they managed to outperform their xGD by a net 15 goals and bag 25 extra points as a result.
https://understat.com/league/EPL

And we underperformed by 5 points

It looked like we under performed by 2.23 points.  The stats we we should have gone down.  The stats can kiss my arse.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: exigo on August 24, 2020, 01:24:53 PM
Quote from: Dave P on August 24, 2020, 12:58:37 PM
Quote from: Sdwbvf on August 23, 2020, 06:59:16 PM
Quote from: charlatan on August 23, 2020, 05:23:37 PM
Quote from: Sdwbvf on August 23, 2020, 05:06:03 PM
Don't Liverpool have a team of 20 odd statisticians? It doesn't seem to have done them any harm.

Apparently last season they managed to outperform their xGD by a net 15 goals and bag 25 extra points as a result.
https://understat.com/league/EPL

And we underperformed by 5 points

It looked like we under performed by 2.23 points.  The stats we we should have gone down.  The stats can kiss my arse.

Even allowing the ghost goal at home to Sheff U, we'd have had plenty more points if VAR had given the handball away at Arsenal, if the ref had followed the rules and not blown before the equaliser at Palace etc etc.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on August 24, 2020, 01:30:23 PM
Back on point, if you use that site to look at our games there's a pretty clear change in expected goals conceded before and after quarantine but more importantly the drop in goals scored isn't supported by the stats:
first 28 games: actual=34 expected=34.81
last 10 games: actual=7 expected=10.28

So the extra defensive stability didn't massively reduce the number or quality of the chances we were creating so the idea that we gave up attacking intent for stability isn't really supported by the analysis the club is using. I suspect that's the point Smith was making to the players to try to encourage them to keep to the plan and trust that the goals would come. Given 5 of those 7 goals came in the last 4 matches he'll believe he's been proven correct.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AsTallAsLions on August 25, 2020, 09:28:10 AM
Quote
Smith has acknowledged their approach in the early months of the campaign was a little too aggressive.

He said: “I probably went into the season a little bit naive in terms of trying to win every game.

“That is natural and I won’t ever lose that but sometimes you have to be a bit more pragmatic. You can’t expect a lot of the ball at times against Liverpool and Manchester City and we have to play a little bit differently at times.”

Good to see some self-awareness and personal accountability creeping in.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Bad English on August 25, 2020, 11:46:23 AM
Xg is the sort of thing that ends posts by excitable mentally-challenged ladies on Facebook asking 'u ok hun? Xg' or 'date night with this one Xg'
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on August 25, 2020, 01:01:14 PM
Quote from: Bad English on August 25, 2020, 11:46:23 AM
Xg is the sort of thing that ends posts by excitable mentally-challenged ladies on Facebook asking 'u ok hun? Xg' or 'date night with this one Xg'

I once had to give the current Mrs a severe dressing down after referring to me as 'this one' on FB. Excrutiating.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on August 25, 2020, 01:30:14 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on August 25, 2020, 09:28:10 AM
Quote
Smith has acknowledged their approach in the early months of the campaign was a little too aggressive.

He said: “I probably went into the season a little bit naive in terms of trying to win every game.

“That is natural and I won’t ever lose that but sometimes you have to be a bit more pragmatic. You can’t expect a lot of the ball at times against Liverpool and Manchester City and we have to play a little bit differently at times.”

Good to see some self-awareness and personal accountability creeping in.

Indeed. Better late than never.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on August 25, 2020, 01:33:02 PM
Just as a matter of interest, how many other managers admit in press conferences that they've got stuff wrong?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on August 25, 2020, 01:41:22 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on August 25, 2020, 01:30:14 PM
Quote from: AsTallAsLions on August 25, 2020, 09:28:10 AM
Quote
Smith has acknowledged their approach in the early months of the campaign was a little too aggressive.

He said: “I probably went into the season a little bit naive in terms of trying to win every game.

“That is natural and I won’t ever lose that but sometimes you have to be a bit more pragmatic. You can’t expect a lot of the ball at times against Liverpool and Manchester City and we have to play a little bit differently at times.”

Good to see some self-awareness and personal accountability creeping in.

Indeed. Better late than never.

Agreed. He’s called out the players a lot. If time has allows him the chance to admit he also needs to grow and improve then that’s only going to help him and us. We’re not equipped to win every game until we score more goals. But a robust structure defensively and smart in game tactical changes can help us protect leads when we do have them and see out games. We become better at that we are immediately 10 points better off.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on August 25, 2020, 02:01:22 PM
Random thought of the day. There have been 20 permanent managers of the Villa in my lifetime (21 appointments if you include Taylor x2). I'm old enough to remember 19 of them. God I feel old.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on August 25, 2020, 02:04:32 PM
Quote from: Drummond on August 25, 2020, 02:01:22 PM
Random thought of the day. There have been 20 permanent managers of the Villa in my lifetime (21 appointments if you include Taylor x2). I'm old enough to remember 19 of them. God I feel old.

We must be the same age.  I remember them all except Vic Crowe.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: in exile on August 25, 2020, 02:13:23 PM
I came in when Tommy Doc was in charge.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on August 25, 2020, 02:29:44 PM
Quote from: Risso on August 25, 2020, 02:04:32 PM
Quote from: Drummond on August 25, 2020, 02:01:22 PM
Random thought of the day. There have been 20 permanent managers of the Villa in my lifetime (21 appointments if you include Taylor x2). I'm old enough to remember 19 of them. God I feel old.

We must be the same age.  I remember them all except Vic Crowe.

Yep, in my 50th year.....
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dick Edwards on August 25, 2020, 02:51:37 PM
Quote from: in exile on August 25, 2020, 02:13:23 PM
I came in when Tommy Doc was in charge.

Tommy Cummings for me
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: West Derby Villan on August 25, 2020, 02:55:19 PM
Vic Crowe
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on August 25, 2020, 02:56:10 PM
Quote from: Drummond on August 25, 2020, 02:29:44 PM
Quote from: Risso on August 25, 2020, 02:04:32 PM
Quote from: Drummond on August 25, 2020, 02:01:22 PM
Random thought of the day. There have been 20 permanent managers of the Villa in my lifetime (21 appointments if you include Taylor x2). I'm old enough to remember 19 of them. God I feel old.

We must be the same age.  I remember them all except Vic Crowe.

Yep, in my 50th year.....

49th for me.  You old bastard! ;)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on August 25, 2020, 03:01:31 PM
Quote from: Dick Edwards on August 25, 2020, 02:51:37 PM
Quote from: in exile on August 25, 2020, 02:13:23 PM
I came in when Tommy Doc was in charge.

Tommy Cummings for me
Dick Taylor was manager when I first watched them, in 1967.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on August 25, 2020, 03:21:25 PM
Quote from: Risso on August 25, 2020, 02:56:10 PM
Quote from: Drummond on August 25, 2020, 02:29:44 PM
Quote from: Risso on August 25, 2020, 02:04:32 PM
Quote from: Drummond on August 25, 2020, 02:01:22 PM
Random thought of the day. There have been 20 permanent managers of the Villa in my lifetime (21 appointments if you include Taylor x2). I'm old enough to remember 19 of them. God I feel old.

We must be the same age.  I remember them all except Vic Crowe.

Yep, in my 50th year.....

49th for me.  You old bastard! ;)

I never thought I'd reach 50...only 319 days to go..
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT on August 25, 2020, 04:59:08 PM
Just on a slightly different tack, after going on the VP tour today, and being told a few things, it’s clear how much all the staff at the club think of Dean.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Allan C on August 25, 2020, 05:00:32 PM
Quote from: in exile on August 25, 2020, 02:13:23 PM
I came in when Tommy Doc was in charge.
Me too  My first game was right at the end of the Tommy Docherty reign. Liked Vic Crowe a lot
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave shelley on August 25, 2020, 05:46:43 PM
Eric Houghton when I first started attending.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SheffieldVillain on August 25, 2020, 06:17:55 PM
Quote from: CT on August 25, 2020, 04:59:08 PM
Just on a slightly different tack, after going on the VP tour today, and being told a few things, it’s clear how much all the staff at the club think of Dean.

I heard similar comments about how well thought of he was among club staff from someone who worked at Walsall during his time there.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on August 25, 2020, 06:43:13 PM
Quote from: dave shelley on August 25, 2020, 05:46:43 PM
Eric Houghton when I first started attending.

Are you Olivia De Haviland?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave shelley on August 25, 2020, 06:44:27 PM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on August 25, 2020, 06:43:13 PM
Quote from: dave shelley on August 25, 2020, 05:46:43 PM
Eric Houghton when I first started attending.

Are you Olivia De Haviland?

Me Nan.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on August 25, 2020, 06:46:25 PM
Haha I just checked to be fair he was around until late 50’s. I should’ve checked.  Fair play to you though!  Ronald Saunders for me.  Ipswich at home meaningless fixture 1980.  1–1.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: stubbsyandy on August 25, 2020, 07:05:35 PM
Dick Taylor..bloody hell!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: jwarry on August 25, 2020, 07:35:00 PM
Quote from: stubbsyandy on August 25, 2020, 07:05:35 PM
Dick Taylor..bloody hell!

Yep I vaguely recall Passing Dick Taylor Sports on Witton Road as we walked to VP
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on August 25, 2020, 07:50:14 PM
Mercers' Minors were the first team I went to see circa 1961
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TopDeck113 on August 25, 2020, 08:02:40 PM
Quote from: Sdwbvf on August 23, 2020, 05:06:03 PM
Don't Liverpool have a team of 20 odd statisticians? It doesn't seem to have done them any harm.

Nine extra on the pitch is certainly a statistical advantage.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Footy-Vill on September 01, 2020, 12:57:44 PM
Can we just acknowledge Dean Smith for his development in coaching yet again.
Jack Grealish has been called up in no small part to Smith coaching of him.
Smith has now developed several players into international status.

Tyrone Mings plays for England because of Dean Smith.
Hourihane has become a main midfielder for Ireland
John McGinn for Scotland.
Douglas Luiz and Wesley were called up to Brazil because of how they have developed at Aston Villa.

I think it has to be noted how good an impact Dean has and his enjoyment of making players better.

Let's not forget Deans quality in coaching players.

Fully see Ezri Konsa being called up for England if his progression continues.

Up the Villa
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on September 01, 2020, 02:09:43 PM
Nah.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: N'ZMAV on September 01, 2020, 05:48:09 PM
Smith's met both of his objective sin the 18 months he's been here - can't fault the end results.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on September 16, 2020, 05:36:12 PM
Nice interview here.

https://amp.theguardian.com/football/2020/sep/16/dean-smith-aston-villa-challenging-in-europe-has-to-be-the-aim-jack-grealish?__twitter_impression=true&s=04
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: WilliamStanding on September 16, 2020, 05:42:48 PM
Well done Deano - many wanted you gone in March and even during project restart.

Proved them wrong
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on September 16, 2020, 05:47:26 PM
Nobody wants him to fail and I hope he is a massive success. He made many mistakes earlier for which he was rightly criticized for. However he also made significant changes post break and if we just did that this season with the new players, we will finish comfortably mid table.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on September 16, 2020, 05:50:03 PM
Fair play to him holding his hands up on last seasons signings and supporting Suso.  I thought he'd not got who he wanted (Maupay, Benrahma etc) and suffered because of it, but he's not using that as an excuse at all.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: danno on September 16, 2020, 05:50:38 PM
That's a great interview I did smile at the mixed metaphor:
Quote
“At times there was just a candle flickering but we managed to get some electricity and heat things up a bit,”

Real measure of him that he passed up the opportunity to criticize Suso.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: WilliamStanding on September 16, 2020, 05:52:07 PM
Tbf I never said anyone wanted him to fail, and yes he made errors, but the fact is there was a minority vehemently calling for his head.

W
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on September 16, 2020, 07:34:30 PM
Quote from: WilliamStanding on September 16, 2020, 05:52:07 PM
Tbf I never said anyone wanted him to fail, and yes he made errors, but the fact is there was a minority vehemently calling for his head.

W

Superfan. Well done you!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Monty on September 16, 2020, 08:02:39 PM
He is just so impossible to dislike, whatever you think of his managerial qualities (and I strongly suspect that that likeability is one of them).
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: JD on September 18, 2020, 09:07:31 AM
Agree Monty. He is a genuinely nice person who tries his best and doesn't really have a bad word to say about others.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Footy-Vill on September 24, 2020, 10:51:07 PM
Absolute hero
Have to credit Dean who is a particular favourite of mine.
One of the best fitting coaches I feel we could have.

Now on a 7 match unbeaten run league and cup.
It's 5 matches in the league. Fulham next and another 3 points is hopeful.

Then to see if Deans 'home schooling' has really stuck have a good test at home to Liverpool before international period.

If we remain unbeaten say with 4pts then he really is progressing this team !

Well done Dean Smith I would love us to win a trophy this year and feel Smith wants to try so hard to win one too and be everything for him to get us a cup!

Dean Smith only gets better.
What a guy !

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on September 25, 2020, 11:23:53 AM
Quote from: Footy-Vill on September 24, 2020, 10:51:07 PM
Absolute hero
Have to credit Dean who is a particular favourite of mine.
One of the best fitting coaches I feel we could have.

Now on a 7 match unbeaten run league and cup.
It's 5 matches in the league. Fulham next and another 3 points is hopeful.

Then to see if Deans 'home schooling' has really stuck have a good test at home to Liverpool before international period.

If we remain unbeaten say with 4pts then he really is progressing this team !

Well done Dean Smith I would love us to win a trophy this year and feel Smith wants to try so hard to win one too and be everything for him to get us a cup!

Dean Smith only gets better.
What a guy !



Amen brother
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: BC Villain on September 26, 2020, 06:21:36 PM
Classy

https://twitter.com/AVFCOfficial/status/1309810195124514818?s=19
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on September 26, 2020, 06:35:12 PM
Superb.

Never realised about the design on the shirt. 164 pages on SHA.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: p_ad on September 26, 2020, 06:45:54 PM
Brilliant just effing brilliant , whatever your thoughts on Deano the boss ,he is just an outstanding bloke I love the man
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT on September 26, 2020, 07:30:29 PM
Quote from: BC Villain on September 26, 2020, 06:21:36 PM
Classy

https://twitter.com/AVFCOfficial/status/1309810195124514818?s=19

That’s just great to watch. Top class.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on September 26, 2020, 07:32:03 PM
It's why the other lot hate him so much.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: colin69 on September 26, 2020, 08:02:14 PM
I thought Dean should have been sacked earlier on in the year. I was wrong....
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on September 26, 2020, 08:12:02 PM
There is Dean the person and Dean the football manager. The former is beyond reproach. He’s a wonderful, genuine man who loves the city, the club and relates to everything we do. Dean the football manager deserves credit for how ended last season and have started this. But he made lots of errors last and deserved the criticism he got. We all hope he is here for a very long time because professionally he is successful. I don’t want the Dean the person’s reputation taking a beating because of his professional performance. As we saw with Sir Graham, it’s very, very sad when that happens.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on September 26, 2020, 08:33:00 PM
Quote from: p_ad on September 26, 2020, 06:45:54 PM
Brilliant just effing brilliant , whatever your thoughts on Deano the boss ,he is just an outstanding bloke I love the man
I agree - and it's what a lot of clubs do. Credit to all for doing it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lizz on September 26, 2020, 10:21:30 PM
Absolutely lovely.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: WilliamStanding on September 26, 2020, 11:54:39 PM
Quote from: colin69 on September 26, 2020, 08:02:14 PM
I thought Dean should have been sacked earlier on in the year. I was wrong....

Takes a big man to admit this, I don’t expect this to be a common occurrence however.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on September 27, 2020, 12:16:42 AM
Quote from: WilliamStanding on September 26, 2020, 11:54:39 PM
Quote from: colin69 on September 26, 2020, 08:02:14 PM
I thought Dean should have been sacked earlier on in the year. I was wrong....

Takes a big man to admit this, I don’t expect this to be a common occurrence however.

I'm hoping the we have a similar result with regards to people's views of Keinan Davis.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: WilliamStanding on September 27, 2020, 12:22:22 AM
KD has achieved exactly what In the EPL?

How many league goals was it again In two / three years ?

When he scores 5 goals plus in a league season I will be the “big man”.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: gpbarr on September 27, 2020, 12:23:14 AM
Nice to see the class we talk about in action - that’s heartwarming and we need more of it. Am sure other clubs do similar and credit to all that do. The more inclusive the sport, the more inclusive society.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: RamboandBruno on September 27, 2020, 05:35:53 PM
Quote from: Drummond on September 27, 2020, 12:16:42 AM
Quote from: WilliamStanding on September 26, 2020, 11:54:39 PM
Quote from: colin69 on September 26, 2020, 08:02:14 PM
I thought Dean should have been sacked earlier on in the year. I was wrong....

Takes a big man to admit this, I don’t expect this to be a common occurrence however.

I'm hoping the we have a similar result with regards to people's views of Keinan Davis.

Reeled him in....
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: supertom on September 28, 2020, 08:11:41 PM
So far so good this season, but there's a lot more assurance about the side. Faith in players like Konsa and Luiz is now paying off. Defensively we look a lot better. Staying up was astonishing, but hopefully we'll be able to kick on and have a season that's a little more comfortable. We're playing like a side that doesn't look like it should be worrying about relegation battles. Ask me again in a couple of months of course...
I wanted him gone in Jan. We looked absolutely done for, and when a club looks that way they virtually never turn it around, but Dean did.

I'll be delighted if we have a solid season, and hope Dean is the man who can take us forward. Top bloke.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on September 28, 2020, 08:17:53 PM
Well done Dean, I wasn’t sure you had it at times last season very happy to be wrong. Keep proving me wrong.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on September 28, 2020, 08:57:11 PM
Great start. Keep it up. Two more in please.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sickbeggar on September 28, 2020, 09:05:51 PM
Well he's managed to keep the confidence high among the players from the end of the last season - probably was the turning point for the team that, considering we couldn't buy a win from Feb to July. Now we look like we can see off the newly promoted dross and give the also-rans a game as well. Add to that the signings and getting key players to sign-up, and you have to feel optimistic the way things are going under Smith.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on September 28, 2020, 09:08:53 PM
I could be wrong but I think this is the first time we've gone 6 top flight games unbeaten since the start of the McLeish season (W2 D5).
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on September 28, 2020, 09:13:19 PM
Smith has had a great spell, I’m so pleased for him. Shame this thread sometimes had a whiff of the Alan Partidge needless-to-say-I-had-the-last-laughs about it. But mainly, just pleased he’s got almost everything right since lockdown. Good on him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave shelley on September 28, 2020, 09:20:17 PM
Maybe we're seeing the influence of quality coaching now Shakespeare has been added to the bunch.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sickbeggar on September 28, 2020, 09:37:35 PM
It does seem very reminiscent of SGT's time when we struggled to stay up first season and then kicked on. I'm not saying we're gonna finish 2nd or anything, but most of our players took a kicking from the premier in terms of the step-up in quality last season. You either adjust to it or fall by the wayside. We seem to be adjusting.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on September 28, 2020, 09:42:57 PM
Good stuff so far, looking forward to what sort of plan we come up with for Liverpool.

We played alright in the two games v them last season and one of them was without Grealish so confident we'll give them a good game although they've looked pretty good tonight.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on September 28, 2020, 09:54:12 PM
Quote from: dave shelley on September 28, 2020, 09:20:17 PM
Maybe we're seeing the influence of quality coaching now Shakespeare has been added to the bunch.

Looks like a shrewd appointment.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on September 28, 2020, 09:55:02 PM
Quote from: Newby on September 28, 2020, 09:54:12 PM
Quote from: dave shelley on September 28, 2020, 09:20:17 PM
Maybe we're seeing the influence of quality coaching now Shakespeare has been added to the bunch.

Looks like a shrewd appointment.

That's a bit tame.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: richtheholtender on September 29, 2020, 09:31:30 PM

(https://i.ibb.co/VVLrNtY/568-BFFBB-F176-4-A17-98-D8-B6-FA8-C7-F4-C32.png) (https://ibb.co/VVLrNtY)



Hard to disagree
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: picicata on September 29, 2020, 09:56:16 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on September 28, 2020, 09:55:02 PM
Quote from: Newby on September 28, 2020, 09:54:12 PM
Quote from: dave shelley on September 28, 2020, 09:20:17 PM
Maybe we're seeing the influence of quality coaching now Shakespeare has been added to the bunch.

Looks like a shrewd appointment.

That's a bit tame.

Well he's certainly had an affect on the defence since him came in. Last year was a comedy of errors.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: WilliamStanding on September 29, 2020, 10:08:37 PM
Definitely showing to be a King compared to say O’Leary.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on September 29, 2020, 10:16:33 PM
As well as the vast majority in-between.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on September 29, 2020, 10:33:43 PM
Quote from: richtheholtender on September 29, 2020, 09:31:30 PM

(https://i.ibb.co/VVLrNtY/568-BFFBB-F176-4-A17-98-D8-B6-FA8-C7-F4-C32.png) (https://ibb.co/VVLrNtY)



Hard to disagree

Yep.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on September 29, 2020, 10:35:43 PM
Totally. I was wrong. Quite happy to admit it. Humble pie was eaten ages ago.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Monty on September 29, 2020, 10:39:26 PM
Really hoping I was wrong, and am encouraged very much by the signs so far this season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on September 29, 2020, 10:42:27 PM
Isn't this when we offer him a new contract and six months later things have gone to shit and many want him out?!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on September 29, 2020, 10:49:37 PM
I always said he was the next Ron Saunders and look forward to reminding the doubters of this for many years to come. Truly, I am a better fan than you all.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on September 29, 2020, 10:51:05 PM
Quote from: Monty on September 29, 2020, 10:39:26 PM
Really hoping I was wrong, and am encouraged very much by the signs so far this season.

I was very critical and I still feel I was right to be. He saved his Villa career by using the break to fundamentally change how we played games. And we have become much better organized and disciplined because of it. But even yesterday we saw signs where instead of taking the game to a much weaker team and controlling possession, we allowed them too much of the ball for long periods. We can not afford to do that against the better sides. But so far, so good. Cannot really be critical about a 4 win start. I hope it continues.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: not3bad on September 29, 2020, 10:52:15 PM
Dean Smith made mistakes in his first season in the top flight. This is hardly unusual. The important question is did he learn from them. So far it looks promising.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on September 29, 2020, 10:55:47 PM
He's doing the business. As soon as he isn't there will be no shortage of people lining up to call him a c*nt. Let's just enjoy it while it lasts.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on September 29, 2020, 10:58:36 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on September 29, 2020, 10:51:05 PM
Quote from: Monty on September 29, 2020, 10:39:26 PM
Really hoping I was wrong, and am encouraged very much by the signs so far this season.

I was very critical and I still feel I was right to be. He saved his Villa career by using the break to fundamentally change how we played games. And we have become much better organized and disciplined because of it. But even yesterday we saw signs where instead of taking the game to a much weaker team and controlling possession, we allowed them too much of the ball for long periods. We can not afford to do that against the better sides. But so far, so good. Cannot really be critical about a 4 win start. I hope it continues.

Was that a mistake or was it a case of the game's won, it's a long season and we've still got a thin squad so let's not cause ourselves any undue problems?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on September 29, 2020, 11:10:50 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on September 29, 2020, 10:58:36 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on September 29, 2020, 10:51:05 PM
Quote from: Monty on September 29, 2020, 10:39:26 PM
Really hoping I was wrong, and am encouraged very much by the signs so far this season.

I was very critical and I still feel I was right to be. He saved his Villa career by using the break to fundamentally change how we played games. And we have become much better organized and disciplined because of it. But even yesterday we saw signs where instead of taking the game to a much weaker team and controlling possession, we allowed them too much of the ball for long periods. We can not afford to do that against the better sides. But so far, so good. Cannot really be critical about a 4 win start. I hope it continues.

Was that a mistake or was it a case of the game's won, it's a long season and we've still got a thin squad so let's not cause ourselves any undue problems?

I jumped onto the match thread at around 30 mins in, and laughed to myself at some of the hysterical comments. It's been a long time since I felt that relaxed watching the Villa, we were completely dominant, even when we hadn't got the ball, Christ, even when they were crossing it.

Anyway, I'm a better fan than the lot of you, I didn't waiver at all. He's absolutely the right person at the right time for this job, and that doesn't happen very often.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on September 29, 2020, 11:40:33 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on September 29, 2020, 10:58:36 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on September 29, 2020, 10:51:05 PM
Quote from: Monty on September 29, 2020, 10:39:26 PM
Really hoping I was wrong, and am encouraged very much by the signs so far this season.

I was very critical and I still feel I was right to be. He saved his Villa career by using the break to fundamentally change how we played games. And we have become much better organized and disciplined because of it. But even yesterday we saw signs where instead of taking the game to a much weaker team and controlling possession, we allowed them too much of the ball for long periods. We can not afford to do that against the better sides. But so far, so good. Cannot really be critical about a 4 win start. I hope it continues.

Was that a mistake or was it a case of the game's won, it's a long season and we've still got a thin squad so let's not cause ourselves any undue problems?

It’s very possible that we paced ourselves last night. That we had the confidence of taking control when we needed to. We certainly only allowed them to play in their own half or in non threatening spaces. We need to add to the squad so it’s deeper and the talent level doesn’t drop off so quickly. That still a concern which I hope is addressed between now and mid October. But encouraging signs and we have a proper test on Sunday to see just how far we’ve come. We could very well lose but it will be more about how we play.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on September 30, 2020, 12:00:46 AM
I thought last night was a very good performance because we played like a team who knew the game was won after 15minutes. We didn't need to boss possession or constantly press, we just held them at arms length and let them persist with throwing poor crosses over that were of no threat.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on September 30, 2020, 12:07:20 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on September 29, 2020, 10:49:37 PM
I always said he was the next Ron Saunders and look forward to reminding the doubters of this for many years to come. Truly, I am a better fan than you all.

Would be happy with the next Brian Little, top again and a trophy win in next 5 years sounds very good to me and would certainly give him legendary status at this club for a lifetime.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Monty on September 30, 2020, 12:11:11 AM
I thought we didn't look too comfortable in possession last night, sure, but then last week we had fecking 72% of the ball, and looked far less dangerous! There's more than one way to skin a cat, and yesterday was clearly a game for Klopp's 'pressing is the best playmaker' thing - every time we won the ball high or in midfield we looked like we could be in within one pass.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on September 30, 2020, 12:11:44 AM
Quote from: paul_e on September 30, 2020, 12:00:46 AM
I thought last night was a very good performance because we played like a team who knew the game was won after 15minutes. We didn't need to boss possession or constantly press, we just held them at arms length and let them persist with throwing poor crosses over that were of no threat.

Yep same for me. Yesterday had the air of a mid table team swatting away one bound for relegation. It was what was happening to us away to Sheffield United and at home to Southampton in December last year and both of them were well clear of relegation in the end.

Caution is always waiting 10 games in to properly judge a season as I remember thinking Lambert had cracked it after beating Arsenal away in first game in his second season and everything quickly went s*** again but DS has a better overall squad and clearly has had a good rethink in last few months that's it's o.k to play a pragmatic style in the premier league. We are thriving from it now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on September 30, 2020, 12:24:42 AM
Quote from: Monty on September 30, 2020, 12:11:11 AM
I thought we didn't look too comfortable in possession last night, sure, but then last week we had fecking 72% of the ball, and looked far less dangerous! There's more than one way to skin a cat, and yesterday was clearly a game for Klopp's 'pressing is the best playmaker' thing - every time we won the ball high or in midfield we looked like we could be in within one pass.

I'd happily go back to being a pure counter attacking side. With the players we've added and hopefully can add further like Rashica who looks pacy when running with the ball we now have the ability to stretch teams when they leave space.

I know a few turned their noses up at the football we played under MON but generally it suited our squad down to a t although of course frustrating we didn't have a Grealish type creative player in the squad who could've made a difference in the million home draws we had.

When you look at the top premier league teams now only Man. City play the Wenger type possesion style, all the others are just about winning the ball back quickly in the midfield and quickly getting it up to the rapid forwards like Son, Adama, Rashford Vardy, Kane, Aubameyang, Pulisic, Mane and Salah to do the rest.

To be a top premier league side you need lots of speed in the final third so we're finally addressing it as it was a huge weakness last season. Top end of premier league is even more counter attack than it ever was as reflected in the mediocre performances of Man. United, Spurs, Chelsea and Arsenal so far.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Monty on September 30, 2020, 12:28:20 AM
There are more types of counterattacking too. There's MON-ball, sitting in and waiting and boofing long to a big lad, and there's Kloppball, looking to win the ball high with pacy nuisance attackers, and everything in between. We'll need to be able to break teams down as well because we will go behind, we will face defensive teams, we will have teams come to VP to block us for 90 minutes, but purpose on the break is also an absolute necessity.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on September 30, 2020, 01:27:19 AM
The best tactic isn’t just one but several. That we are able to have a defined style of play but one that is versatile enough because of our players and coaching to combat multiple styles and types of opponent. I’d love for us to press all game and certainly against the weaker sides. But we have to be good at being patient, dropping deep and breaking or having something in between depending on who we play, or even in game based on how things are going. We are a long way from that but I hope over time, with better players, more experience and confidence we can do that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: nigel on September 30, 2020, 07:07:33 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on September 29, 2020, 10:58:36 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on September 29, 2020, 10:51:05 PM
Quote from: Monty on September 29, 2020, 10:39:26 PM
Really hoping I was wrong, and am encouraged very much by the signs so far this season.

I was very critical and I still feel I was right to be. He saved his Villa career by using the break to fundamentally change how we played games. And we have become much better organized and disciplined because of it. But even yesterday we saw signs where instead of taking the game to a much weaker team and controlling possession, we allowed them too much of the ball for long periods. We can not afford to do that against the better sides. But so far, so good. Cannot really be critical about a 4 win start. I hope it continues.

Was that a mistake or was it a case of the game's won, it's a long season and we've still got a thin squad so let's not cause ourselves any undue problems?

Didn’t he say in the post match interview that they knew Fulham would have a lot of the ball, that’s how they play.
The key was we didn’t allow them to do much with it.
A bit like us under Lambert, loads of possession,but no end product
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on September 30, 2020, 09:58:49 AM
Quote from: richtheholtender on September 29, 2020, 09:31:30 PM

(https://i.ibb.co/VVLrNtY/568-BFFBB-F176-4-A17-98-D8-B6-FA8-C7-F4-C32.png) (https://ibb.co/VVLrNtY)



Hard to disagree

Some good points marred significantly by the brainless use of "fans".
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on September 30, 2020, 10:18:11 AM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on September 29, 2020, 10:51:05 PM
Quote from: Monty on September 29, 2020, 10:39:26 PM
Really hoping I was wrong, and am encouraged very much by the signs so far this season.

I was very critical and I still feel I was right to be. He saved his Villa career by using the break to fundamentally change how we played games. And we have become much better organized and disciplined because of it. But even yesterday we saw signs where instead of taking the game to a much weaker team and controlling possession, we allowed them too much of the ball for long periods. We can not afford to do that against the better sides. But so far, so good. Cannot really be critical about a 4 win start. I hope it continues.
But this time last year he was being criticised for being too gung-ho and failing to hold onto leads.  It's the age old debate, if a manager goes defensive and we lose a lead he gets criticised, if a manager doesn't go defensive and we lose a lead he gets criticised.  Yes in an ideal world you just keep posession and see it out, but in reality it's not that easy.  I thought the second half looked poor too, but the reality is he was just trying to adopt game management to see out the win against a side who had come back strongly against Leeds. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: algy on September 30, 2020, 05:04:29 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on September 30, 2020, 10:18:11 AM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on September 29, 2020, 10:51:05 PM
Quote from: Monty on September 29, 2020, 10:39:26 PM
Really hoping I was wrong, and am encouraged very much by the signs so far this season.

I was very critical and I still feel I was right to be. He saved his Villa career by using the break to fundamentally change how we played games. And we have become much better organized and disciplined because of it. But even yesterday we saw signs where instead of taking the game to a much weaker team and controlling possession, we allowed them too much of the ball for long periods. We can not afford to do that against the better sides. But so far, so good. Cannot really be critical about a 4 win start. I hope it continues.
But this time last year he was being criticised for being too gung-ho and failing to hold onto leads.  It's the age old debate, if a manager goes defensive and we lose a lead he gets criticised, if a manager doesn't go defensive and we lose a lead he gets criticised.  Yes in an ideal world you just keep posession and see it out, but in reality it's not that easy.  I thought the second half looked poor too, but the reality is he was just trying to adopt game management to see out the win against a side who had come back strongly against Leeds.
Think someone earlier on this thread said we'd basically won after 15mins, it was just a case of not throwing it away. We did that perfectly, I thought.

Don't want to get carried away, it's one game against a team who won't be troubling mid table. But the way we went about winning that makes me think we'll be nowhere near the relegation spots.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Hookeysmith on September 30, 2020, 08:17:54 PM
Quote from: richtheholtender on September 29, 2020, 09:31:30 PM

(https://i.ibb.co/VVLrNtY/568-BFFBB-F176-4-A17-98-D8-B6-FA8-C7-F4-C32.png) (https://ibb.co/VVLrNtY)


That actually made me feel emotional


Hard to disagree
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on September 30, 2020, 08:23:39 PM
Quote from: themossman on September 30, 2020, 09:58:49 AM
Quote from: richtheholtender on September 29, 2020, 09:31:30 PM

(https://i.ibb.co/VVLrNtY/568-BFFBB-F176-4-A17-98-D8-B6-FA8-C7-F4-C32.png) (https://ibb.co/VVLrNtY)



Hard to disagree

Some good points marred significantly by the brainless use of "fans".


Indeed, that was the first thing I read, then I thought, fuck you with your "fans" comment, you "******".
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on September 30, 2020, 08:25:32 PM
Quote from: Monty on September 30, 2020, 12:28:20 AM
There are more types of counterattacking too. There's MON-ball, sitting in and waiting and boofing long to a big lad, and there's Kloppball, looking to win the ball high with pacy nuisance attackers, and everything in between. We'll need to be able to break teams down as well because we will go behind, we will face defensive teams, we will have teams come to VP to block us for 90 minutes, but purpose on the break is also an absolute necessity.

I think that's perhaps a slightly harsh description of MON's tactics - let's not forget, they were very successful. The problem is, as you said, that one way of playing - particularly one that works way better away from home than it does at home - is never going to be enough. It wasn't 14-10 years ago, and it isn't now.

We need to be more flexible and to have different ways of playing.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Smithy on September 30, 2020, 08:45:56 PM
A pressing game for 90 minutes is almost impossible, physically speaking, unless you have the majority of the possession. Even Liverpool, who do this brilliantly, often leave themselves 2 v 2, or 3 v 3 at the back when they try to win possession back in the attacking third.  I think they can afford to do that because of the quality, speed and athleticism of their players engaged in the press - but we need to be a bit more pragmatic.  If we pressed all the time like Liverpool do we'd get picked off WAY too often.

I like the set-up at the moment, and I like the fact we seem like we can vary it a bit, and are happy conceding possession when a team is moving it around in places it can't hurt us (like Fulham did).

I also really like that the additions this summer no longer mean opposition managers can simply think "stop Jack, stop Villa".  They're going to have to work a bit harder this season!

And if Dean keeps learning and improving, the signs are only positive!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: gpbarr on October 01, 2020, 09:38:16 PM
He didn’t learn tonight. He absolutely is the right guy at the right time and deserves all the plaudits for the job he has done here. But ...

Like the players tonight, he deserves criticism. The line up showed he doesn’t think the CC is a priority, and he left himself very few options off the bench - most of the other PL clubs played weakened aides but most had A players on the bench in case of an emergency.

Our midfield was a disaster tonight and he had nothing on the bench to change the tempo or style - that was a mistake.

And he said he took this seriously. I had preferred he came out and was a little more honest about it frankly.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on October 01, 2020, 09:40:56 PM
Our second string is not good enough and he's currently only interested in developing Ramsey from the U23s where there are others who deserved a chance in a game like tonight's.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 01, 2020, 09:44:43 PM
If he'd played a stronger team and say Jack and Ollie got knobbled and were out for a few months he'd be panned for picking them.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on October 01, 2020, 09:47:26 PM
You can’t  get away with making wholesale changes like tonight unless the opposition also do that. Bristol City played their reserves Stoke had 8/9 first teamers on the pitch tonight.
Despite their riches of talent Guardiola still played Sterling and deBruyne last night arguably his best two players.
Smith needs to learn.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: gpbarr on October 01, 2020, 09:48:24 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on October 01, 2020, 09:44:43 PM
If he'd played a stronger team and say Jack and Ollie got knobbled and were out for a few months he'd be panned for picking them.

He would - but nobody said he should.

Q - what is the case for picking Lansbury - have we seriously not all seen enough? Why not pick one of the U23 lads and give him a go.

Q. Same for Taylor.

Not suggesting he put out the first team but to say it’s important and then pick that side is just like walking into a trap. He could have avoided it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on October 01, 2020, 09:48:45 PM
Quote from: olaftab on October 01, 2020, 09:47:26 PM
You can’t  get away with making wholesale changes like tonight unless the opposition also do that. Bristol City played their reserves Stoke had 8/9 first teamers on the pitch tonight.
Despite their riches of talent Guardiola still played Sterling and deBruyne last night arguably his best two players.
Smith needs to learn.

Absolutely. How DARE he not know what team Stoke would be putting out.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on October 01, 2020, 09:49:10 PM
Quote from: Legion on October 01, 2020, 09:40:56 PM
Our second string is not good enough and he's currently only interested in developing Ramsey from the U23s where there are others who deserved a chance in a game like tonight's.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on October 01, 2020, 09:51:44 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on October 01, 2020, 09:48:45 PM
Quote from: olaftab on October 01, 2020, 09:47:26 PM
You can’t  get away with making wholesale changes like tonight unless the opposition also do that. Bristol City played their reserves Stoke had 8/9 first teamers on the pitch tonight.
Despite their riches of talent Guardiola still played Sterling and deBruyne last night arguably his best two players.
Smith needs to learn.
Absolutely. How DARE he not know what team Stoke would be putting out.
Well you don’t take that chance. And if you do you make sure you have resources on the bench to take corrective action. Every game is there to be won.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on October 01, 2020, 09:53:43 PM
Quote from: olaftab on October 01, 2020, 09:51:44 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on October 01, 2020, 09:48:45 PM
Quote from: olaftab on October 01, 2020, 09:47:26 PM
You can’t  get away with making wholesale changes like tonight unless the opposition also do that. Bristol City played their reserves Stoke had 8/9 first teamers on the pitch tonight.
Despite their riches of talent Guardiola still played Sterling and deBruyne last night arguably his best two players.
Smith needs to learn.
Absolutely. How DARE he not know what team Stoke would be putting out.
Well you don’t take that chance. And if you do you make sure you have resources on the bench to take corrective action. Every game is there to be won.

Go down that road and you'd be playing your full-strength team in every match.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on October 01, 2020, 09:59:11 PM
Yes that’s me. Play your best team in every competitive game. I do not like this modern day fanning about with weak selections for cup games. Aston Villa football club was set up to compete in every game.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on October 01, 2020, 10:02:02 PM
Quote from: olaftab on October 01, 2020, 09:59:11 PM
Yes that’s me. Play your best team in every competitive game. I do not like this modern day fanning about with weak selections for cup games. Aston Villa football club was set up to compete in every game.

A long time ago.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 01, 2020, 10:02:54 PM
Quote from: olaftab on October 01, 2020, 09:59:11 PM
Yes that’s me. Play your best team in every competitive game. I do not like this modern day fanning about with weak selections for cup games. Aston Villa football club was set up to compete in every game.

We scratched the first time we entered the FA Cup, supposedly as we were worried we'd get smashed out of sight.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: WilliamStanding on October 01, 2020, 10:05:03 PM
It’s 2020, clubs do not field their strongest 11 in the 5th round of the league cup, it hurts but it’s reality.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 01, 2020, 10:07:13 PM
I'm absolutely disgusted about the Villa side in the 5th round of the 2020 LC.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on October 01, 2020, 10:08:13 PM
Quote from: olaftab on October 01, 2020, 09:59:11 PM
Yes that’s me. Play your best team in every competitive game. I do not like this modern day fanning about with weak selections for cup games. Aston Villa football club was set up to compete in every game.

It would be great if we could but we just can't. We kicked off our season 17 days ago and we've already played five games.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: WilliamStanding on October 01, 2020, 10:09:18 PM
At the end of the day it was a calculated risk and it didn’t pay off.

Looking at the team last left in the competition is I really worth getting knickers in a twist.

Imagine if Grealish, Luiz it SJM had played tonight and picked up injuries?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on October 01, 2020, 10:10:29 PM
I can see why he kept faith given the same team comfortably won at Bristol City who are ahead of Stoke in the championship table.

I think if we'd had another Fulham type opponent on Sunday we'd have seen likes of Grealish and McGinn involved tonight. However we need them 100% on Sunday to have a chance of a result and way game went tonight they'd have wasted up too much energy.

It's frustrating but it's not like the final is going to have any fans if it's still being played early March.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: WilliamStanding on October 01, 2020, 10:10:49 PM
Quote from: Clampy on October 01, 2020, 10:08:13 PM
Quote from: olaftab on October 01, 2020, 09:59:11 PM
Yes that’s me. Play your best team in every competitive game. I do not like this modern day fanning about with weak selections for cup games. Aston Villa football club was set up to compete in every game.

It would be great if we could but we just can't. We kicked off our season 17 days ago and we've already played five games.

Nail on head.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on October 01, 2020, 10:12:54 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on October 01, 2020, 10:02:54 PM
Quote from: olaftab on October 01, 2020, 09:59:11 PM
Yes that’s me. Play your best team in every competitive game. I do not like this modern day fanning about with weak selections for cup games. Aston Villa football club was set up to compete in every game.

We scratched the first time we entered the FA Cup, supposedly as we were worried we'd get smashed out of sight.

That might be a myth. The reason we scratched according to our Oracle could have been in protest at Oxford University (our opponents) cheating in the previous round.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on October 01, 2020, 10:15:41 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on October 01, 2020, 10:12:54 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on October 01, 2020, 10:02:54 PM
Quote from: olaftab on October 01, 2020, 09:59:11 PM
Yes that’s me. Play your best team in every competitive game. I do not like this modern day fanning about with weak selections for cup games. Aston Villa football club was set up to compete in every game.

We scratched the first time we entered the FA Cup, supposedly as we were worried we'd get smashed out of sight.
That might be a myth. The reason we scratched according to our Oracle could have been in protest at Oxford University (our opponents) cheating in the previous round.
I like that. That’s a much more Corinthian answer and sits well in my world of goodness about our club.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 01, 2020, 10:16:21 PM
They stuck 6 past Birmingham the previous round. No relation to sha though, just some team called Birmingham.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on October 01, 2020, 10:20:54 PM
Quote from: Clampy on October 01, 2020, 10:08:13 PM
Quote from: olaftab on October 01, 2020, 09:59:11 PM
Yes that’s me. Play your best team in every competitive game. I do not like this modern day fanning about with weak selections for cup games. Aston Villa football club was set up to compete in every game.

It would be great if we could but we just can't. We kicked off our season 17 days ago and we've already played five games.

Agreed.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mcgrath_85 on October 01, 2020, 10:30:05 PM
Quote from: WilliamStanding on October 01, 2020, 10:09:18 PM
At the end of the day it was a calculated risk and it didn’t pay off.

Looking at the team last left in the competition is I really worth getting knickers in a twist.

Imagine if Grealish, Luiz it SJM had played tonight and picked up injuries?

You could apply that to any game really.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mcgrath_85 on October 01, 2020, 10:32:21 PM
I would have played sone fringe players but would have tried to keep a strong spine still.
Lansbury, Hause were useless tonight and are clearly not good enough for the premier league.
Tonight also showed, we need to sign another striker in the window.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on October 01, 2020, 10:51:11 PM
That Sebastian Flyte turned out for Oxford University when registered as an Eton College player.  Oxford University should have been thrown out of the competition.



Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on October 01, 2020, 11:53:32 PM
Quote from: mcgrath_85 on October 01, 2020, 10:32:21 PM
I would have played sone fringe players but would have tried to keep a strong spine still.

Go back a week and we were all celebrating how the second XI played the same way as the first XI. Tonight was an embarrassment, nobody seemed to know what they were doing. Lansbury, an attacking midfielder (so I heard) playing as a sweeper, every ball backwards or misplaced. Marvelous, a defensive midfielder, limited but bought to play to sit in front of the defence? I'm still to be convinced that Dean as much as I love and admire him as a human being, can grow as a manager/coach. Tonight it once again feels like we hired Walsall's manager. Where's this tactical genius we were promised. He and his team are struggling with the basics.

I'm sure he knows the owners are watching him very closely.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on October 02, 2020, 12:08:24 AM
Quote from: mcgrath_85 on October 01, 2020, 10:32:21 PM
I would have played sone fringe players but would have tried to keep a strong spine still.
Lansbury, Hause were useless tonight and are clearly not good enough for the premier league.
Tonight also showed, we need to sign another striker in the window.

If Mings picks up another hamstring injury Hause is starting premier league games again which is a huge worry.

Not really sure what DS thinking is at the back given Engels hasn't been seen in 8 months out on the pitch and AEM surely isn't seen as credible CB option in the premier league.

Seems a bit of a gamble even if Konsa-Mings are performing well. We went into defensive chaos last season as soon as Mings pulled up v Leicester so that's the warning right there.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on October 02, 2020, 12:15:14 AM
How often did that team work together in training as a unit specifically for this game? Once or twice maybe,  if that? The problem with wholesale changing is that fringe (lesser) players are likely to struggle when playing competitively with other fringe players. Lansbury (or 'H' as Dean called him in the interview after the game - it did raise a wince) probably looks great in pass and move drills at Bodymoor and probably hits "top bins" for fun in shooting practice. Put him in a game where he has to actually break a sweat and be brave...well he struggles.

But I don't fully buy the 'God help us if Hause/Taylor/El Ghazi have to fill-in for a few games in the first team' catastrophising. It won't be ideal but they've done it before and surrounded by better team mates than the second string, they should be OK for the most part. Bit by bit, over the next few windows, we'll improve the 'B' options.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on October 02, 2020, 02:40:42 AM
He really likes Lansbury for some reason. It defies all logic. I spoke Dean Smith in Minnesota last pre season and he was convinced Lansbury was going to surprise everyone. He was right. We are all surprised just how shit he is.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on October 02, 2020, 07:36:32 AM
I'm not!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on October 02, 2020, 07:52:34 AM
Nor me.  He is another in a long line post MON who have taken Villa for a cushy run it to retirement.  Such players and Dean's tolerance of them will prevent him getting to the very top of the management elite.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: andyh on October 02, 2020, 08:03:18 AM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on October 02, 2020, 02:40:42 AM
He really likes Lansbury for some reason. It defies all logic. I spoke Dean Smith in Minnesota last pre season and he was convinced Lansbury was going to surprise everyone. He was right. We are all surprised just how shit he is.
The only surprise is that the fucker still draws a wage from Aston Villa.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on October 02, 2020, 08:08:57 AM
With the wages he is on, there's nowhere for him to go.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: boozey182 on October 02, 2020, 08:21:14 AM
I think the reason behind the team selection was more than just resting the first team. The players that played are our first reserves should anything happen to any of the first team, and they won't have had a proper pre-season. If we were to need any of them in the first team (god forbid) they will have fitness issues on top of their lack of quality to contend with! If they've at least got a few games under their belt, they have a fighting chance of coming in and doing a job for us.

It is frustrating, because there was a quarter final spot there for the taking, and I'd actually started to really enjoy watching us play, so it was very disapppointing to sit through that shambles - but I can fully understand and support the theory behind it.

Next season, we'll have a proper pre-season and a second XI that could compete at the lower end of the Premier League, so I expect a decent run in this cup. But for now, let's just focus on progressing in the league and becoming one of those teams you really don't want to play.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on October 02, 2020, 08:37:03 AM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on October 02, 2020, 02:40:42 AM
He really likes Lansbury for some reason. It defies all logic. I spoke Dean Smith in Minnesota last pre season and he was convinced Lansbury was going to surprise everyone. He was right. We are all surprised just how shit he is.
That's unbelievable. But as others have said he probably looks great on the training ground.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on October 02, 2020, 08:42:19 AM
Players can get injured in training, are people saying they should not train?? Yes I know I am taking that to the extreme but the "X player could get injured in the cup" i don't really get, players pick up injuries playing football.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on October 02, 2020, 08:56:11 AM
Training isn't 90 minutes of competitive football.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on October 02, 2020, 09:02:16 AM
He's 30 in a couple of weeks. Leaving it late to surprise people.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on October 02, 2020, 09:03:44 AM
Quote from: Three Spires Villa on October 02, 2020, 08:42:19 AM
Players can get injured in training, are people saying they should not train?? Yes I know I am taking that to the extreme but the "X player could get injured in the cup" i don't really get, players pick up injuries playing football.

You're right, I think injury risk is a non issue. Fixture congestion and exhaustion is probably valid though, especially this season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave shelley on October 02, 2020, 09:25:41 AM
I think the surprise is, he had the spare keys to Ross McCormack's gates all the time.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on October 02, 2020, 09:35:07 AM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on October 02, 2020, 02:40:42 AM
He really likes Lansbury for some reason. It defies all logic. I spoke Dean Smith in Minnesota last pre season and he was convinced Lansbury was going to surprise everyone. He was right. We are all surprised just how shit he is.

From his first appearance for us he didn't look anything like fit enough, he seemed to be out on his feet after an hour. It has never seemed to improve, he also seems to carry a little bit too much weight.

Shame as he's a decent passer of the ball.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on October 02, 2020, 09:55:30 AM
Quote from: Ads on October 02, 2020, 08:56:11 AM
Training isn't 90 minutes of competitive football.

Ok lets not play Grealish, Mings, Watkins or Luiz against Liverpool as we probably wont win, and keep them for the games we might win as they might get injured!!!

Libor Kosak broke his leg twice in training, if I remember correctly

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on October 02, 2020, 09:59:31 AM
I honestly think Lansbury just doesn't care enough.

A couple of years ago I was told by someone close to certain players that Lansbury was more interested in partying and money and that he'd never come good.  Seems he was right.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: algy on October 02, 2020, 10:12:01 AM
Quote from: dave shelley on October 02, 2020, 09:25:41 AM
I think the surprise is, he had the spare keys to Ross McCormack's gates all the time.
  :D :D
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on October 02, 2020, 01:11:31 PM
Quote from: Three Spires Villa on October 02, 2020, 09:55:30 AM
Quote from: Ads on October 02, 2020, 08:56:11 AM
Training isn't 90 minutes of competitive football.

Ok lets not play Grealish, Mings, Watkins or Luiz against Liverpool as we probably wont win, and keep them for the games we might win as they might get injured!!!

Libor Kosak broke his leg twice in training, if I remember correctly
Well said TSV. Injury argument makes no sense. Was Guardiola worried about KDB and Sterling getting injured? Was Ancelotti worried about James and Calvert-Lewin being injured? No they are the winning mentality coaches. Don’t get that 5 games in 17 days issue either. Same as everybody else.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on October 02, 2020, 01:25:13 PM
Quote from: olaftab on October 02, 2020, 01:11:31 PM
Quote from: Three Spires Villa on October 02, 2020, 09:55:30 AM
Quote from: Ads on October 02, 2020, 08:56:11 AM
Training isn't 90 minutes of competitive football.

Ok lets not play Grealish, Mings, Watkins or Luiz against Liverpool as we probably wont win, and keep them for the games we might win as they might get injured!!!

Libor Kosak broke his leg twice in training, if I remember correctly
Well said TSV. Injury argument makes no sense. Was Guardiola worried about KDB and Sterling getting injured? Was Ancelotti worried about James and Calvert-Lewin being injured? No they are the winning mentality coaches. Don’t get that 5 games in 17 days issue either. Same as everybody else.

They have a bit more squad depth than we do.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: danno on October 02, 2020, 01:30:24 PM
Quote from: eamonn on October 02, 2020, 12:15:14 AM
Lansbury (or 'H' as Dean called him in the interview after the game - it did raise a wince) probably looks great in pass and move drills at Bodymoor and probably hits "top bins" for fun in shooting practice. Put him in a game where he has to actually break a sweat and be brave...well he struggles.

I'd like to believe 'H' is a veiled insult, and is mocking Lansbury's aversion to running. 'Steps' is a pretty good way to describe him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Monty on October 02, 2020, 01:31:13 PM
I thought it stood for hydrogen, which accurately describes his on-pitch presence.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on October 02, 2020, 01:32:43 PM
Hologram?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Axl Rose on October 02, 2020, 01:38:17 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on October 02, 2020, 01:25:13 PM
Quote from: olaftab on October 02, 2020, 01:11:31 PM
Quote from: Three Spires Villa on October 02, 2020, 09:55:30 AM
Quote from: Ads on October 02, 2020, 08:56:11 AM
Training isn't 90 minutes of competitive football.

Ok lets not play Grealish, Mings, Watkins or Luiz against Liverpool as we probably wont win, and keep them for the games we might win as they might get injured!!!

Libor Kosak broke his leg twice in training, if I remember correctly
Well said TSV. Injury argument makes no sense. Was Guardiola worried about KDB and Sterling getting injured? Was Ancelotti worried about James and Calvert-Lewin being injured? No they are the winning mentality coaches. Don’t get that 5 games in 17 days issue either. Same as everybody else.

They have a bit more squad depth than we do.

They also have an actual manager with a brain. Smith isn't good enough for the Premier League yet.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on October 02, 2020, 01:41:11 PM
Quote from: Axl Rose on October 02, 2020, 01:38:17 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on October 02, 2020, 01:25:13 PM
Quote from: olaftab on October 02, 2020, 01:11:31 PM
Quote from: Three Spires Villa on October 02, 2020, 09:55:30 AM
Quote from: Ads on October 02, 2020, 08:56:11 AM
Training isn't 90 minutes of competitive football.

Ok lets not play Grealish, Mings, Watkins or Luiz against Liverpool as we probably wont win, and keep them for the games we might win as they might get injured!!!

Libor Kosak broke his leg twice in training, if I remember correctly
Well said TSV. Injury argument makes no sense. Was Guardiola worried about KDB and Sterling getting injured? Was Ancelotti worried about James and Calvert-Lewin being injured? No they are the winning mentality coaches. Don’t get that 5 games in 17 days issue either. Same as everybody else.

They have a bit more squad depth than we do.

They also have an actual manager with a brain. Smith isn't good enough for the Premier League yet.


He can't attract players either.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on October 02, 2020, 01:41:32 PM
i do not understand the criticism of the team selection, you have to protect key players and try to keep the squad fit.
The team did not perform and we allready know that a few of them are regular non performers so no big news. Can you imagine if he had bought Jack on to get lumped by one of their agricultural players and be out for 3 weeks the constenation?
What last night proved is that there is not much depth beyond our best 11 and why we need to protect them.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on October 02, 2020, 01:45:04 PM
This season is very condensed. It's shit to lose a cup game but we can't afford burn out towards the end of the season. We will improve year on year, first team and replacements wise the longer we stay in the division. Last year was about staying up. This year is about stabilising and building a solid base. Next year we should have enough quality and a longer season and break to think more positively about going for cups.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on October 02, 2020, 01:45:35 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on October 02, 2020, 01:41:32 PM
i do not understand the criticism of the team selection, you have to protect key players and try to keep the squad fit.
The team did not perform and we allready know that a few of them are regular non performers so no big news. Can you imagine if he had bought Jack on to get lumped by one of their agricultural players and be out for 3 weeks the constenation?
What last night proved is that there is not much depth beyond our best 11 and why we need to protect them.

Correct.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on October 02, 2020, 01:53:14 PM
Quote from: LeeB on October 02, 2020, 01:45:35 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on October 02, 2020, 01:41:32 PM
i do not understand the criticism of the team selection, you have to protect key players and try to keep the squad fit.
The team did not perform and we allready know that a few of them are regular non performers so no big news. Can you imagine if he had bought Jack on to get lumped by one of their agricultural players and be out for 3 weeks the constenation?
What last night proved is that there is not much depth beyond our best 11 and why we need to protect them.

Correct.

Doesn't explain the Bristol game though, as Dean pointed out himself last night.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on October 02, 2020, 01:54:08 PM
You want your best players available for your most important games. I don't want Grealish playing 3 games in 6 days, or McGinn, Luiz, Mings etc when the Liverpool game is the bigger one.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on October 02, 2020, 01:54:30 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on October 02, 2020, 01:53:14 PM
Quote from: LeeB on October 02, 2020, 01:45:35 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on October 02, 2020, 01:41:32 PM
i do not understand the criticism of the team selection, you have to protect key players and try to keep the squad fit.
The team did not perform and we allready know that a few of them are regular non performers so no big news. Can you imagine if he had bought Jack on to get lumped by one of their agricultural players and be out for 3 weeks the constenation?
What last night proved is that there is not much depth beyond our best 11 and why we need to protect them.

Correct.

Doesn't explain the Bristol game though, as Dean pointed out himself last night.
eh?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on October 02, 2020, 01:58:32 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on October 02, 2020, 01:54:30 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on October 02, 2020, 01:53:14 PM
Quote from: LeeB on October 02, 2020, 01:45:35 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on October 02, 2020, 01:41:32 PM
i do not understand the criticism of the team selection, you have to protect key players and try to keep the squad fit.
The team did not perform and we allready know that a few of them are regular non performers so no big news. Can you imagine if he had bought Jack on to get lumped by one of their agricultural players and be out for 3 weeks the constenation?
What last night proved is that there is not much depth beyond our best 11 and why we need to protect them.

Correct.

Doesn't explain the Bristol game though, as Dean pointed out himself last night.
eh?

Pretty much the same side were brilliant against Bristol. Last night was a shambles for reasons that go beyond their collective talent.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on October 02, 2020, 02:07:12 PM
A Villa team played well one week and shit the next. This can't be novel to any of us!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Axl Rose on October 02, 2020, 02:15:54 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on October 02, 2020, 01:41:11 PM
Quote from: Axl Rose on October 02, 2020, 01:38:17 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on October 02, 2020, 01:25:13 PM
Quote from: olaftab on October 02, 2020, 01:11:31 PM
Quote from: Three Spires Villa on October 02, 2020, 09:55:30 AM
Quote from: Ads on October 02, 2020, 08:56:11 AM
Training isn't 90 minutes of competitive football.

Ok lets not play Grealish, Mings, Watkins or Luiz against Liverpool as we probably wont win, and keep them for the games we might win as they might get injured!!!

Libor Kosak broke his leg twice in training, if I remember correctly
Well said TSV. Injury argument makes no sense. Was Guardiola worried about KDB and Sterling getting injured? Was Ancelotti worried about James and Calvert-Lewin being injured? No they are the winning mentality coaches. Don’t get that 5 games in 17 days issue either. Same as everybody else.

They have a bit more squad depth than we do.

They also have an actual manager with a brain. Smith isn't good enough for the Premier League yet.


He can't attract players either.

I agree. Not the top class ones anyway. Maybe in the future.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on October 02, 2020, 02:16:30 PM
Quote from: aj2k77 on October 02, 2020, 01:45:04 PM
This season is very condensed. It's shit to lose a cup game but we can't afford burn out towards the end of the season. We will improve year on year, first team and replacements wise the longer we stay in the division. Last year was about staying up. This year is about stabilising and building a solid base. Next year we should have enough quality and a longer season and break to think more positively about going for cups.

Correct as well
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on October 02, 2020, 02:21:58 PM
Quote from: Axl Rose on October 02, 2020, 02:15:54 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on October 02, 2020, 01:41:11 PM
Quote from: Axl Rose on October 02, 2020, 01:38:17 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on October 02, 2020, 01:25:13 PM
Quote from: olaftab on October 02, 2020, 01:11:31 PM
Quote from: Three Spires Villa on October 02, 2020, 09:55:30 AM
Quote from: Ads on October 02, 2020, 08:56:11 AM
Training isn't 90 minutes of competitive football.

Ok lets not play Grealish, Mings, Watkins or Luiz against Liverpool as we probably wont win, and keep them for the games we might win as they might get injured!!!

Libor Kosak broke his leg twice in training, if I remember correctly
Well said TSV. Injury argument makes no sense. Was Guardiola worried about KDB and Sterling getting injured? Was Ancelotti worried about James and Calvert-Lewin being injured? No they are the winning mentality coaches. Don’t get that 5 games in 17 days issue either. Same as everybody else.

They have a bit more squad depth than we do.

They also have an actual manager with a brain. Smith isn't good enough for the Premier League yet.


He can't attract players either.

I agree. Not the top class ones anyway. Maybe in the future.


He was never going to get us promoted or keep us up, either.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on October 02, 2020, 03:32:00 PM
Nominated as manager of the month for September.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on October 02, 2020, 04:06:58 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on October 02, 2020, 02:21:58 PM
Quote from: Axl Rose on October 02, 2020, 02:15:54 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on October 02, 2020, 01:41:11 PM
Quote from: Axl Rose on October 02, 2020, 01:38:17 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on October 02, 2020, 01:25:13 PM
Quote from: olaftab on October 02, 2020, 01:11:31 PM
Quote from: Three Spires Villa on October 02, 2020, 09:55:30 AM
Quote from: Ads on October 02, 2020, 08:56:11 AM
Training isn't 90 minutes of competitive football.

Ok lets not play Grealish, Mings, Watkins or Luiz against Liverpool as we probably wont win, and keep them for the games we might win as they might get injured!!!

Libor Kosak broke his leg twice in training, if I remember correctly
Well said TSV. Injury argument makes no sense. Was Guardiola worried about KDB and Sterling getting injured? Was Ancelotti worried about James and Calvert-Lewin being injured? No they are the winning mentality coaches. Don’t get that 5 games in 17 days issue either. Same as everybody else.

They have a bit more squad depth than we do.

They also have an actual manager with a brain. Smith isn't good enough for the Premier League yet.


He can't attract players either.

I agree. Not the top class ones anyway. Maybe in the future.


He was never going to get us promoted or keep us up, either.

We'll never see a record run of wins under him that's for sure.

We can forget any sort of Cup run.

And as for winning the opening two league games of a season, well that happens so frequently, I don't know what all the fuss is about.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on October 02, 2020, 04:54:21 PM
Quote from: olaftab on October 01, 2020, 10:15:41 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on October 01, 2020, 10:12:54 PM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on October 01, 2020, 10:02:54 PM
Quote from: olaftab on October 01, 2020, 09:59:11 PM
Yes that’s me. Play your best team in every competitive game. I do not like this modern day fanning about with weak selections for cup games. Aston Villa football club was set up to compete in every game.

We scratched the first time we entered the FA Cup, supposedly as we were worried we'd get smashed out of sight.
That might be a myth. The reason we scratched according to our Oracle could have been in protest at Oxford University (our opponents) cheating in the previous round.
I like that. That’s a much more Corinthian answer and sits well in my world of goodness about our club.

You wouldn't like to hear about our role in the development of professionalism
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on October 02, 2020, 04:57:50 PM
Happy to be called a loon but I would rather be in the quarterfinals of the League Cup than beat Liverpool. Win, loose or draw v Liverpool won’t define our season, again it will be teams around us and we have made a fantastic start in the league.

I would rather finish 15th and win the League Cup than finish 8th. I want Villa to win things.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on October 02, 2020, 04:59:31 PM
Quote from: Three Spires Villa on October 02, 2020, 04:57:50 PM
Happy to be called a loon but I would rather be in the quarterfinals of the League Cup than beat Liverpool. Win, loose or draw v Liverpool won’t define our season, again it will be teams around us and we have made a fantastic start in the league.

I would rather finish 15th and win the League Cup than finish 8th. I want Villa to win things.

Loon.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on October 02, 2020, 05:02:35 PM
Only joking of course.

I know what you mean and would generally agree, but given where we are, where we've come from, and where we're heading, I'll give them a pass on this year, it's really all about getting as high up the table as possible.

And anyway, it's our year for the FA Cup.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on October 02, 2020, 05:15:05 PM
Quote from: LeeB on October 02, 2020, 04:59:31 PM
Quote from: Three Spires Villa on October 02, 2020, 04:57:50 PM
Happy to be called a loon but I would rather be in the quarterfinals of the League Cup than beat Liverpool. Win, loose or draw v Liverpool won’t define our season, again it will be teams around us and we have made a fantastic start in the league.

I would rather finish 15th and win the League Cup than finish 8th. I want Villa to win things.

Loon.

Just a bit.

Beating the best side in the country, perhaps the second best in Europe, would set our season up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mike on October 02, 2020, 05:25:35 PM
Quote from: Three Spires Villa on October 02, 2020, 04:57:50 PM
Happy to be called a loon but I would rather be in the quarterfinals of the League Cup than beat Liverpool. Win, loose or draw v Liverpool won’t define our season, again it will be teams around us and we have made a fantastic start in the league.

I would rather finish 15th and win the League Cup than finish 8th. I want Villa to win things.

I'd agree, but as a natural born pessimist, if we can grind out a hard fought and possibly undeserved draw against Liverpool and that point keeps us up, I'll take that over the League Cup.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on October 02, 2020, 05:31:22 PM
Quote from: Three Spires Villa on October 02, 2020, 04:57:50 PM
Happy to be called a loon but I would rather be in the quarterfinals of the League Cup than beat Liverpool. Win, loose or draw v Liverpool won’t define our season, again it will be teams around us and we have made a fantastic start in the league.

I would rather finish 15th and win the League Cup than finish 8th. I want Villa to win things.

Same here
But in fairness there’s no way we would be beating Spurs with that side we put out last night or anything like it

so don’t think it would have mattered in the long term
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Axl Rose on October 02, 2020, 05:56:13 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on October 02, 2020, 02:21:58 PM
Quote from: Axl Rose on October 02, 2020, 02:15:54 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on October 02, 2020, 01:41:11 PM
Quote from: Axl Rose on October 02, 2020, 01:38:17 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on October 02, 2020, 01:25:13 PM
Quote from: olaftab on October 02, 2020, 01:11:31 PM
Quote from: Three Spires Villa on October 02, 2020, 09:55:30 AM
Quote from: Ads on October 02, 2020, 08:56:11 AM
Training isn't 90 minutes of competitive football.

Ok lets not play Grealish, Mings, Watkins or Luiz against Liverpool as we probably wont win, and keep them for the games we might win as they might get injured!!!

Libor Kosak broke his leg twice in training, if I remember correctly
Well said TSV. Injury argument makes no sense. Was Guardiola worried about KDB and Sterling getting injured? Was Ancelotti worried about James and Calvert-Lewin being injured? No they are the winning mentality coaches. Don’t get that 5 games in 17 days issue either. Same as everybody else.

They have a bit more squad depth than we do.

They also have an actual manager with a brain. Smith isn't good enough for the Premier League yet.


He can't attract players either.

I agree. Not the top class ones anyway. Maybe in the future.


He was never going to get us promoted or keep us up, either.

I'd just rather have a better manager.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: London Villan on October 02, 2020, 06:47:40 PM
The league cup run probably saved his job last season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on October 02, 2020, 07:02:13 PM
He takes up a midtable side with the best run in our history, having been dealt the most ridiculous of hands with the defence.

He gets us promoted as probably the best team in the league come the end of it and in the best possible style too.

He has to renew nigh on an entire squad, having been dealt the most ridiculous of hands with squad renewal, while coming from the weakest of positions, the Play Off winners.

He keeps us up.

He gets us to a Cup final, where we're cheated by a phantom corner and circular posts.

He strengthens. We look a decent and stronger prospect.

I'm sure there are better managers than Smith  but I wonder if they could have achieved what he has? Pretty fucking decent in my book.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Pat Mustard on October 02, 2020, 07:09:41 PM
Quote from: Axl Rose on October 02, 2020, 05:56:13 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on October 02, 2020, 02:21:58 PM
Quote from: Axl Rose on October 02, 2020, 02:15:54 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on October 02, 2020, 01:41:11 PM
Quote from: Axl Rose on October 02, 2020, 01:38:17 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on October 02, 2020, 01:25:13 PM
Quote from: olaftab on October 02, 2020, 01:11:31 PM
Quote from: Three Spires Villa on October 02, 2020, 09:55:30 AM
Quote from: Ads on October 02, 2020, 08:56:11 AM
Training isn't 90 minutes of competitive football.

Ok lets not play Grealish, Mings, Watkins or Luiz against Liverpool as we probably wont win, and keep them for the games we might win as they might get injured!!!

Libor Kosak broke his leg twice in training, if I remember correctly
Well said TSV. Injury argument makes no sense. Was Guardiola worried about KDB and Sterling getting injured? Was Ancelotti worried about James and Calvert-Lewin being injured? No they are the winning mentality coaches. Don’t get that 5 games in 17 days issue either. Same as everybody else.

They have a bit more squad depth than we do.

They also have an actual manager with a brain. Smith isn't good enough for the Premier League yet.


He can't attract players either.

I agree. Not the top class ones anyway. Maybe in the future.


He was never going to get us promoted or keep us up, either.

I'd just rather have a better manager.

Who? Seriously, who do you think would have done more in the last 2 years given where we were?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Bad English on October 02, 2020, 07:12:22 PM
Thierry Henry's current management stats (at Monaco & Impact de Montréal) W 9 D 8 L 22.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: rougegorge on October 02, 2020, 07:13:40 PM
Quote from: London Villan on October 02, 2020, 06:47:40 PM
The league cup run probably saved his job last season.
I think this is true. There was some terrible football leading up to the semis and to the final itself.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Pat Mustard on October 02, 2020, 07:21:10 PM
Quote from: rougegorge on October 02, 2020, 07:13:40 PM
Quote from: London Villan on October 02, 2020, 06:47:40 PM
The league cup run probably saved his job last season.
I think this is true. There was some terrible football leading up to the semis and to the final itself.

Maybe so, but to be fair at that stage we were playing without Heaton, McGinn, Wesley and for a large part Mings. Given the squad he inherited and the work we had to do to rebuild the squad, that was a ridiculous injury list.

If you’ve watched the Spurs documentary on Amazon, look at how a few injuries there derailed their season and that was with a squad that had been in the Champions League final the previous May. I don’t see how any other manager would have got much more out of the team at that stage with the resources that were available.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on October 02, 2020, 07:32:04 PM
Quote from: Pat Mustard on October 02, 2020, 07:21:10 PM
Quote from: rougegorge on October 02, 2020, 07:13:40 PM
Quote from: London Villan on October 02, 2020, 06:47:40 PM
The league cup run probably saved his job last season.
I think this is true. There was some terrible football leading up to the semis and to the final itself.

Maybe so, but to be fair at that stage we were playing without Heaton, McGinn, Wesley and for a large part Mings. Given the squad he inherited and the work we had to do to rebuild the squad, that was a ridiculous injury list.

If you’ve watched the Spurs documentary on Amazon, look at how a few injuries there derailed their season and that was with a squad that had been in the Champions League final the previous May. I don’t see how any other manager would have got much more out of the team at that stage with the resources that were available.

And what's more, one who would have been happy to trade their jobs and/or reputations with Champions League clubs to come to a newly-promoted, bottom three-dwelling club that seemed certain to go straight back down. Oh, and one that couldn't spend any more money due to FFP restrictions.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: algy on October 02, 2020, 07:37:43 PM
Quote from: Ads on October 02, 2020, 07:02:13 PM
He takes up a midtable side with the best run in our history, having been dealt the most ridiculous of hands with the defence.

He gets us promoted as probably the best team in the league come the end of it and in the best possible style too.

He has to renew nigh on an entire squad, having been dealt the most ridiculous of hands with squad renewal, while coming from the weakest of positions, the Play Off winners.

He keeps us up.

He gets us to a Cup final, where we're cheated by a phantom corner and circular posts.

He strengthens. We look a decent and stronger prospect.

I'm sure there are better managers than Smith  but I wonder if they could have achieved what he has? Pretty fucking decent in my book.
I agree with Ads entirely.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: rougegorge on October 02, 2020, 07:43:15 PM
Quote from: Pat Mustard on October 02, 2020, 07:21:10 PM
Quote from: rougegorge on October 02, 2020, 07:13:40 PM
Quote from: London Villan on October 02, 2020, 06:47:40 PM
The league cup run probably saved his job last season.
I think this is true. There was some terrible football leading up to the semis and to the final itself.

Maybe so, but to be fair at that stage we were playing without Heaton, McGinn, Wesley and for a large part Mings. Given the squad he inherited and the work we had to do to rebuild the squad, that was a ridiculous injury list.

If you’ve watched the Spurs documentary on Amazon, look at how a few injuries there derailed their season and that was with a squad that had been in the Champions League final the previous May. I don’t see how any other manager would have got much more out of the team at that stage with the resources that were available.
I get your point to a degree, although Heaton and Wesley all featured in the terrible December league run whilst we beat Liverpool's kids in the cup.

Counting Wesley as a big miss cannot really  be based on his overall contribution, rather that Smith would play him irrespective of his form and we were negligent in getting decent forwards.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on October 02, 2020, 07:47:10 PM
Quote from: Ads on October 02, 2020, 05:15:05 PM
Quote from: LeeB on October 02, 2020, 04:59:31 PM
Quote from: Three Spires Villa on October 02, 2020, 04:57:50 PM
Happy to be called a loon but I would rather be in the quarterfinals of the League Cup than beat Liverpool. Win, loose or draw v Liverpool won’t define our season, again it will be teams around us and we have made a fantastic start in the league.

I would rather finish 15th and win the League Cup than finish 8th. I want Villa to win things.

Loon.

Just a bit.

Beating the best side in the country, perhaps the second best in Europe, would set our season up.

Norwich beat Man City, didn’t do them much good! Hey I’m being an arse, but I think it’s sad that cups and the League Cup is seen as pain rather than a chance for glory. Probably my age, but if you win a major domestic trophy then you are a winning team and a winning club. Anyway I understand all of your points. Cheers UTV
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on October 02, 2020, 07:48:13 PM
By the way this is not a slag of Dean or the team, just disappointed at how football is.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Pat Mustard on October 02, 2020, 07:53:16 PM
Quote from: rougegorge on October 02, 2020, 07:43:15 PM
Quote from: Pat Mustard on October 02, 2020, 07:21:10 PM
Quote from: rougegorge on October 02, 2020, 07:13:40 PM
Quote from: London Villan on October 02, 2020, 06:47:40 PM
The league cup run probably saved his job last season.
I think this is true. There was some terrible football leading up to the semis and to the final itself.

Maybe so, but to be fair at that stage we were playing without Heaton, McGinn, Wesley and for a large part Mings. Given the squad he inherited and the work we had to do to rebuild the squad, that was a ridiculous injury list.

If you’ve watched the Spurs documentary on Amazon, look at how a few injuries there derailed their season and that was with a squad that had been in the Champions League final the previous May. I don’t see how any other manager would have got much more out of the team at that stage with the resources that were available.
I get your point to a degree, although Heaton and Wesley all featured in the terrible December league run whilst we beat Liverpool's kids in the cup.

Counting Wesley as a big miss cannot really  be based on his overall contribution, rather that Smith would play him irrespective of his form and we were negligent in getting decent forwards.

Wesley was a big miss though. He was our top scorer at the point he was injured, and finally looked to be getting to grips with the Premier League.

We needed another forward without doubt, but again we can’t underestimate the rebuilding job we had to do last year. With all of the other positions that needed filling I doubt we would have been able to afford to sign anyone above the Samatta/Baston level at that stage, signings that were pilloried later on.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on October 02, 2020, 08:29:10 PM
One bad performance and defeat, by a goal in the League Cup and its started already. Monday could be a horrible day on here.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on October 02, 2020, 08:37:11 PM
Quote from: Drummond on October 02, 2020, 08:29:10 PM
One bad performance and defeat, by a goal in the League Cup and its started already. Monday could be a horrible day on here.

It certainly doesn't do much to dispel the idea that we're fickle when you've got people writing off Traore and slagging off the manager after our first defeat in 9 games.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on October 02, 2020, 10:39:52 PM
Quote from: Ads on October 02, 2020, 07:02:13 PM
He takes up a midtable side with the best run in our history, having been dealt the most ridiculous of hands with the defence.

He gets us promoted as probably the best team in the league come the end of it and in the best possible style too.

He has to renew nigh on an entire squad, having been dealt the most ridiculous of hands with squad renewal, while coming from the weakest of positions, the Play Off winners.

He keeps us up.

He gets us to a Cup final, where we're cheated by a phantom corner and circular posts.

He strengthens. We look a decent and stronger prospect.

I'm sure there are better managers than Smith  but I wonder if they could have achieved what he has? Pretty fucking decent in my book.

That stayed very much a midtable side, a complete rabble under Smith in truth, until the return of Grealish from injury. Mings was a great signing in fairness to Smith and bringing Steer back in worked wonders. But Jack was by a country mile the best player in that division. He drove us to two playoff finals in a row. I'd give him a lot more credit than either of the two managers to be honest.

Yes, last summer was difficult given the sheer player turnover. But we were a tactical rabble for most of last season it's easy to forget. Only for the pandemic Smith would have been long gone without hardly a complaint on here. Yes we stayed up from what looked an impossible situation late on. But the table never lies, 35 points from 38 games is still an abysmal record.

I like Dean Smith for sure and hope we do well under him. But I still fear that his inaction at addressing the problem left back position and failure to buy a partner in midfield for Luiz will cause us huge problems this season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on October 02, 2020, 10:52:54 PM
Generally, Smith has bought quality and we are only three or four players short of being a really good top ten side.  Three or four of the buys from last season don't quite look up to the mark but we are certainly stronger for this window.  Over the next 12 months to 2 years, I hope that we replace the left back and bring in a quality central midfielder to protect the back four.  Martinez, Cash, Mings, Luiz, Grealish, Watkins all look the part.  Add SJM and Barkley to that for this season, Traore I don't know enough about, but hope for the best.  Konsa looks really promising.  Wesley and Heaton to come back in.  The rest of the squad needs building up over time.  I reckon 12th to 14th this season. I still think we will show some level of naivety defensively but will be pretty good going forward. You get the feeling Dean would rather win 4-3 than 1-0. Attack is the best form of defence, but the lack of a plan B.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on October 02, 2020, 11:16:46 PM
He wasn't going to get us promoted until he did, but that was down to Grealish. He wasn't going to keep us up until he did, but that was down to lockdown. He couldn't attract big names until he did, but that was down to Terry. For someone who can't do anything he seems to have a lot happen regardless.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mike on October 02, 2020, 11:59:12 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on October 02, 2020, 11:16:46 PM
He wasn't going to get us promoted until he did, but that was down to Grealish. He wasn't going to keep us up until he did, but that was down to lockdown. He couldn't attract big names until he did, but that was down to Terry. For someone who can't do anything he seems to have a lot happen regardless.

I missed a lot of last season due to family and health problems so I don't consider myself an expert. You relatively rarely express an outright opinion (which I put down to editorial independence) so I'm interested in how much you support Smith. I've had doubts about him at various points and, like many, credit Jack to a large degree with our amazing ten run spell and play off success. Likewise, what little I saw last season was underwhelming. But I agree that we have got up and stayed up in difficult circumstances under his watch. What do you think about his selections, game managements, subs etc which are the areas he is usually criticised for? Like many/most I'd love Dean to succeed so I'm genuinely interested in your views.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: WilliamStanding on October 03, 2020, 12:00:23 AM
I would actually elaborate on DWs post that couldn’t have been more aptly executed, and say that In  not even two years service Smiffy is actually a legend for what he’s done for this club.

Success is totally relevant to your predicament.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on October 03, 2020, 12:15:31 AM
Quote from: mike on October 02, 2020, 11:59:12 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on October 02, 2020, 11:16:46 PM
He wasn't going to get us promoted until he did, but that was down to Grealish. He wasn't going to keep us up until he did, but that was down to lockdown. He couldn't attract big names until he did, but that was down to Terry. For someone who can't do anything he seems to have a lot happen regardless.

I missed a lot of last season due to family and health problems so I don't consider myself an expert. You relatively rarely express an outright opinion (which I put down to editorial independence) so I'm interested in how much you support Smith. I've had doubts about him at various points and, like many, credit Jack to a large degree with our amazing ten run spell and play off success. Likewise, what little I saw last season was underwhelming. But I agree that we have got up and stayed up in difficult circumstances under his watch. What do you think about his selections, game managements, subs etc which are the areas he is usually criticised for? Like many/most I'd love Dean to succeed so I'm genuinely interested in your views.

He's not perfect, he's made mistakes but so far, in two years he's done everything that's been asked of him. I could equally turn it round and ask why it is that some people are so quick to jump on anything he does wrong, but say all his successes are down to other factors.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OCD on October 03, 2020, 12:32:24 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on October 02, 2020, 11:16:46 PM
He wasn't going to get us promoted until he did, but that was down to Grealish. He wasn't going to keep us up until he did, but that was down to lockdown. He couldn't attract big names until he did, but that was down to Terry. For someone who can't do anything he seems to have a lot happen regardless.

It's like politics. You form an opinion and then confirmation bias has people looking for whatever can be interpreted as supporting evidence. Anything that doesn't support that view must be down to outside factors.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on October 03, 2020, 12:34:26 AM
Given what was and has been said either side of promotion, I don't think it's far-fetched to assume that had he not managed to get us promoted when he did we'd now be doing whatever we'd be doing without one of the most exciting and talked about players on the planet.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: WilliamStanding on October 03, 2020, 12:39:42 AM
The general consensus is that JG harbours the same vision for AVFC as sir Deano.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mike on October 03, 2020, 12:46:06 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on October 03, 2020, 12:15:31 AM
Quote from: mike on October 02, 2020, 11:59:12 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on October 02, 2020, 11:16:46 PM
He wasn't going to get us promoted until he did, but that was down to Grealish. He wasn't going to keep us up until he did, but that was down to lockdown. He couldn't attract big names until he did, but that was down to Terry. For someone who can't do anything he seems to have a lot happen regardless.

I missed a lot of last season due to family and health problems so I don't consider myself an expert. You relatively rarely express an outright opinion (which I put down to editorial independence) so I'm interested in how much you support Smith. I've had doubts about him at various points and, like many, credit Jack to a large degree with our amazing ten run spell and play off success. Likewise, what little I saw last season was underwhelming. But I agree that we have got up and stayed up in difficult circumstances under his watch. What do you think about his selections, game managements, subs etc which are the areas he is usually criticised for? Like many/most I'd love Dean to succeed so I'm genuinely interested in your views.

He's not perfect, he's made mistakes but so far, in two years he's done everything that's been asked of him. I could equally turn it round and ask why it is that some people are so quick to jump on anything he does wrong, but say all his successes are down to other factors.

So what about tactics etc. It's not a trick question, I value your opinion but other than your articles it tends to come in bite sized chunks!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on October 03, 2020, 12:54:22 AM
Quote from: mike on October 03, 2020, 12:46:06 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on October 03, 2020, 12:15:31 AM
Quote from: mike on October 02, 2020, 11:59:12 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on October 02, 2020, 11:16:46 PM
He wasn't going to get us promoted until he did, but that was down to Grealish. He wasn't going to keep us up until he did, but that was down to lockdown. He couldn't attract big names until he did, but that was down to Terry. For someone who can't do anything he seems to have a lot happen regardless.

I missed a lot of last season due to family and health problems so I don't consider myself an expert. You relatively rarely express an outright opinion (which I put down to editorial independence) so I'm interested in how much you support Smith. I've had doubts about him at various points and, like many, credit Jack to a large degree with our amazing ten run spell and play off success. Likewise, what little I saw last season was underwhelming. But I agree that we have got up and stayed up in difficult circumstances under his watch. What do you think about his selections, game managements, subs etc which are the areas he is usually criticised for? Like many/most I'd love Dean to succeed so I'm genuinely interested in your views.

He's not perfect, he's made mistakes but so far, in two years he's done everything that's been asked of him. I could equally turn it round and ask why it is that some people are so quick to jump on anything he does wrong, but say all his successes are down to other factors.

So what about tactics etc. It's not a trick question, I value your opinion but other than your articles it tends to come in bite sized chunks!

As I said before, questions over his tactics, selections and signings are all irrelevant in the long run. Two years today we were fucked. Since then we've got promoted, played in a cup final without getting battered and we've got potentially world-class players in the team. That'll do for me.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: WilliamStanding on October 03, 2020, 12:59:34 AM
Tactically he got us promoted, kept us up against all odds , Phil Collins style, and got us to a cup final against top 4 side In the world.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on October 03, 2020, 01:08:31 AM
Quote from: WilliamStanding on October 03, 2020, 12:39:42 AM
The general consensus is that JG harbours the same vision for AVFC as sir Deano.

Yep, John Gregory will always be a Villa man.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: WilliamStanding on October 03, 2020, 01:11:47 AM
Quote from: eamonn on October 03, 2020, 01:08:31 AM
Quote from: WilliamStanding on October 03, 2020, 12:39:42 AM
The general consensus is that JG harbours the same vision for AVFC as sir Deano.

Yep, John Gregory will always be a Villa man.

Absolutely he will.

Now we are talking.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mike on October 03, 2020, 01:26:52 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on October 03, 2020, 12:54:22 AM
Quote from: mike on October 03, 2020, 12:46:06 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on October 03, 2020, 12:15:31 AM
Quote from: mike on October 02, 2020, 11:59:12 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on October 02, 2020, 11:16:46 PM
He wasn't going to get us promoted until he did, but that was down to Grealish. He wasn't going to keep us up until he did, but that was down to lockdown. He couldn't attract big names until he did, but that was down to Terry. For someone who can't do anything he seems to have a lot happen regardless.

I missed a lot of last season due to family and health problems so I don't consider myself an expert. You relatively rarely express an outright opinion (which I put down to editorial independence) so I'm interested in how much you support Smith. I've had doubts about him at various points and, like many, credit Jack to a large degree with our amazing ten run spell and play off success. Likewise, what little I saw last season was underwhelming. But I agree that we have got up and stayed up in difficult circumstances under his watch. What do you think about his selections, game managements, subs etc which are the areas he is usually criticised for? Like many/most I'd love Dean to succeed so I'm genuinely interested in your views.

He's not perfect, he's made mistakes but so far, in two years he's done everything that's been asked of him. I could equally turn it round and ask why it is that some people are so quick to jump on anything he does wrong, but say all his successes are down to other factors.

So what about tactics etc. It's not a trick question, I value your opinion but other than your articles it tends to come in bite sized chunks!

As I said before, questions over his tactics, selections and signings are all irrelevant in the long run. Two years today we were fucked. Since then we've got promoted, played in a cup final without getting battered and we've got potentially world-class players in the team. That'll do for me.

I don't think those things are irrelevant if we want sustained success under Dean. Last season was a clusterfuck with having to recruit virtually a whole new team within FFP and then having injury problems to key players. This season, we have a better squad and a year's experience in the league for team and manager. I think how well the team performs this season will be down to how Dean and his coaching team get those kind of decisions right.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Pat Mustard on October 03, 2020, 08:23:58 AM
To date Dean Smith has arguably achieved more as manager than Graham Taylor has in his first two years. Both got us promoted in season one, but Smith had to do it with two months of the season already gone, starting from 14th in the league and with one fit centre half at his disposal.

In season two both finished one place above relegation, but Smith also got us to a cup final and despite an injury list that basically destroyed the spine of the team by the new year.

When I said this before someone responded that they were looking forward to us finishing second this season. That probably won’t happen, but we’ve already started this season better than we did in 1989-90, so maybe we give him a chance?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: algy on October 03, 2020, 08:24:57 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on October 03, 2020, 12:54:22 AM
Quote from: mike on October 03, 2020, 12:46:06 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on October 03, 2020, 12:15:31 AM
Quote from: mike on October 02, 2020, 11:59:12 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on October 02, 2020, 11:16:46 PM
He wasn't going to get us promoted until he did, but that was down to Grealish. He wasn't going to keep us up until he did, but that was down to lockdown. He couldn't attract big names until he did, but that was down to Terry. For someone who can't do anything he seems to have a lot happen regardless.

I missed a lot of last season due to family and health problems so I don't consider myself an expert. You relatively rarely express an outright opinion (which I put down to editorial independence) so I'm interested in how much you support Smith. I've had doubts about him at various points and, like many, credit Jack to a large degree with our amazing ten run spell and play off success. Likewise, what little I saw last season was underwhelming. But I agree that we have got up and stayed up in difficult circumstances under his watch. What do you think about his selections, game managements, subs etc which are the areas he is usually criticised for? Like many/most I'd love Dean to succeed so I'm genuinely interested in your views.

He's not perfect, he's made mistakes but so far, in two years he's done everything that's been asked of him. I could equally turn it round and ask why it is that some people are so quick to jump on anything he does wrong, but say all his successes are down to other factors.

So what about tactics etc. It's not a trick question, I value your opinion but other than your articles it tends to come in bite sized chunks!

As I said before, questions over his tactics, selections and signings are all irrelevant in the long run. Two years today we were fucked. Since then we've got promoted, played in a cup final without getting battered and we've got potentially world-class players in the team. That'll do for me.
He's also over-delivered 2 years on the trot. Sounded like we'd planned on promotion from the Championship in his second season - he did it in his first. We then aimed to avoid relegation in his second season - he did that ... and got us to a cup final.

Not sure what people are expecting of the man here, to me he's performing above any reasonable expectations. Might be pushing it a bit far to suggest he's the best manager in the world just yet, but equally if we did have the best manager in the world, what more would anyone have expected them to have achieved at this point?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on October 03, 2020, 08:30:30 AM
I have immense respect for those who have built H and V into the source of good judgement, humour and pleasure it is today.  I cannot rid myself of the nagging doubt that Dean Smith is either flawed or not yet fully fledged.  It is indisputable that his managerial qualiies have taken us from the swamp of the lower Championship to at least the foothills of the sunlit uplands of the Premiership.  Seventy percent of me believes he is the man to get us to a staging post from which we can unleash an assault on the peak.  Then, with unfailing regularity we have games like Stoke and the Mr Hyde in me emerges.  I am assailed with doubt that our future will be like our immediate past.  I have never wanted a Villa manager to succeed as much as I want Dean to succeed.  Liverpool is the perfect game to restore our spirits.  Ours and the players.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: WilliamStanding on October 03, 2020, 08:34:58 AM
Quote from: brian green on October 03, 2020, 08:30:30 AM
Then, with unfailing regularity we have games like Stoke and the Mr Hyde in me emerges. 

Our reserves lost to Stoke.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on October 03, 2020, 08:43:35 AM
Quote from: OCD on October 03, 2020, 12:32:24 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on October 02, 2020, 11:16:46 PM
He wasn't going to get us promoted until he did, but that was down to Grealish. He wasn't going to keep us up until he did, but that was down to lockdown. He couldn't attract big names until he did, but that was down to Terry. For someone who can't do anything he seems to have a lot happen regardless.

It's like politics. You form an opinion and then confirmation bias has people looking for whatever can be interpreted as supporting evidence. Anything that doesn't support that view must be down to outside factors.

Exactly this. There are pro and anti smith camps and in truth he’s given, and continues to give, evidence to both to support their cause.

It’s true he got us promoted, which deserves much credit, also true that having the best player in the division back from injury and winning games on his own played a part. Impossible to separate these factors.

It’s true he kept a poor squad up last year thanks to a great (overall) post lockdown run. It’s also true that he performed badly, overall, IMO, before lockdown, showing a lot of tactical naivety and intransigence, which put us in the position in the first place.

I don’t think reeling out the the end results repeatedly makes the criticisms of how we got there any less valid. Or that criticising him means you don’t want him to succeed.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: RamboandBruno on October 03, 2020, 08:46:46 AM
Quote from: OCD on October 03, 2020, 12:32:24 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on October 02, 2020, 11:16:46 PM
He wasn't going to get us promoted until he did, but that was down to Grealish. He wasn't going to keep us up until he did, but that was down to lockdown. He couldn't attract big names until he did, but that was down to Terry. For someone who can't do anything he seems to have a lot happen regardless.

It's like politics. You form an opinion and then confirmation bias has people looking for whatever can be interpreted as supporting evidence. Anything that doesn't support that view must be down to outside factors.

Exactly this!
I found myself looking at this thread for the first time in ages and was surprised then not surprised that to a degree the Smith debate has to a small degree started again.
I will nearly always defend him currently as I think he deserves to be defended for what he’s done in the two years in the job, not going to spell it out as Dave and Ads already done that. I will come back on those who say grealish got us up single handed as just don’t think it’s true.
But none of that really matters in this discussion as some posters kind of deep down have made their mind up and 1-0 defeat to stoke, is all that’s needed.
As an aside i think smith does want a cup run, but he had no choice but to play a whole second string with the number of games coming up, he simply can’t play anything other than a full strength side against Liverpool.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: RamboandBruno on October 03, 2020, 08:51:29 AM
Quote from: themossman on October 03, 2020, 08:43:35 AM
Quote from: OCD on October 03, 2020, 12:32:24 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on October 02, 2020, 11:16:46 PM
He wasn't going to get us promoted until he did, but that was down to Grealish. He wasn't going to keep us up until he did, but that was down to lockdown. He couldn't attract big names until he did, but that was down to Terry. For someone who can't do anything he seems to have a lot happen regardless.

It's like politics. You form an opinion and then confirmation bias has people looking for whatever can be interpreted as supporting evidence. Anything that doesn't support that view must be down to outside factors.

Exactly this. There are pro and anti smith camps and in truth he’s given, and continues to give, evidence to both to support their cause.

It’s true he got us promoted, which deserves much credit, also true that having the best player in the division back from injury and winning games on his own played a part. Impossible to separate these factors.

It’s true he kept a poor squad up last year thanks to a great (overall) post lockdown run. It’s also true that he performed badly, overall, IMO, before lockdown, showing a lot of tactical naivety and intransigence, which put us in the position in the first place.

I don’t think reeling out the the end results repeatedly makes the criticisms of how we got there any less valid. Or that criticising him means you don’t want him to succeed.

Not disagreeing with your overall point. But Grealish didn’t win a single game on his own at any point. In the 10 game run to go up he was hugely influential, but wasn’t necessarily the best player in a fair number of those games, including the semi final away leg and final. SGM was just as influential in many of those games.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on October 03, 2020, 08:55:03 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on October 02, 2020, 11:16:46 PM
He wasn't going to get us promoted until he did, but that was down to Grealish. He wasn't going to keep us up until he did, but that was down to lockdown. He couldn't attract big names until he did, but that was down to Terry. For someone who can't do anything he seems to have a lot happen regardless.

He must be very lucky Dave.

I like lucky managers.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on October 03, 2020, 08:55:20 AM
The best performance in the 10 game run was McGinn away at Rotherham. The goal Grealish scored was sensational.

Those 4 days in Yorkshire with the win at Wednesday and Rotherham...that's when you knew it was happening.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on October 03, 2020, 08:55:56 AM
Don’t disagree, I almost added ‘and the second best player’, bought by Bruce ;-)

My point, I guess, is that there are a lot of factors at play in individual games and seasons. Plenty of space to disagree about what the factors behind failure or success are.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on October 03, 2020, 08:57:49 AM
When you're consistently achieving your goals, perhaps its best to stop looking elsewhere for why.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on October 03, 2020, 08:59:17 AM
Quote from: Ads on October 03, 2020, 08:55:20 AM
The best performance in the 10 game run was McGinn away at Rotherham. The goal Grealish scored was sensational.

Those 4 days in Yorkshire with the win at Wednesday and Rotherham...that's when you knew it was happening.

Bristol city was also a good game and result.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on October 03, 2020, 08:59:52 AM
Quote from: Ads on October 03, 2020, 08:57:49 AM
When you're consistently achieving your goals, perhaps its best to stop looking elsewhere for why.

There’s not much left to discuss on football forums then though.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on October 03, 2020, 09:04:39 AM
Quote from: Ads on October 03, 2020, 08:55:20 AM
The best performance in the 10 game run was McGinn away at Rotherham. The goal Grealish scored was sensational.

Those 4 days in Yorkshire with the win at Wednesday and Rotherham...that's when you knew it was happening.

It was the Forest game away for me, exactly where we’d have dropped points under Bruce after the high of beating the rags on the Sunday before.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AV82EC on October 03, 2020, 09:07:52 AM
Quote from: Ads on October 03, 2020, 08:55:20 AM
The best performance in the 10 game run was McGinn away at Rotherham. The goal Grealish scored was sensational.

Those 4 days in Yorkshire with the win at Wednesday and Rotherham...that's when you knew it was happening.

4 days in Yorkshire, sounds like an Alan Bennett monologue.

I was at a mates wedding for the Wednesday game and he was saying his vows whilst most of you lot were going mental in added on time at Hillsborough.

I was at Rotherham and it was the day I really felt we were bouncing back, total commitment from the team, especially McGinn, Grealish imperious.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: RamboandBruno on October 03, 2020, 09:15:02 AM
Quote from: themossman on October 03, 2020, 08:59:17 AM
Quote from: Ads on October 03, 2020, 08:55:20 AM
The best performance in the 10 game run was McGinn away at Rotherham. The goal Grealish scored was sensational.

Those 4 days in Yorkshire with the win at Wednesday and Rotherham...that's when you knew it was happening.

Bristol city was also a good game and result.

True, and jack didn’t play in that game.

Wednesday away in that run is one of my favourite ever away days, just a great day, start to finish and not one but two last minute goals, perfect and yes it was at that point walking in the sunshine, through the park by Hillsborough, a few beers worse for wear, that I thought it was on.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on October 03, 2020, 09:17:12 AM
Quote from: LeeB on October 03, 2020, 09:04:39 AM
Quote from: Ads on October 03, 2020, 08:55:20 AM
The best performance in the 10 game run was McGinn away at Rotherham. The goal Grealish scored was sensational.

Those 4 days in Yorkshire with the win at Wednesday and Rotherham...that's when you knew it was happening.

It was the Forest game away for me, exactly where we’d have dropped points under Bruce after the high of beating the rags on the Sunday before.

I was at that sat in with the Forest fans.  SJM was great that game.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on October 03, 2020, 09:21:56 AM
The Wednesday game was very Man United at Villa Park for most of the last 25 years. Fantastic result.

I'm really glad we're out the Championship but I will look back on that run as one of my favourite times as a Villa fan.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on October 03, 2020, 09:44:53 AM
Quote from: RamboandBruno on October 03, 2020, 08:51:29 AM
Quote from: themossman on October 03, 2020, 08:43:35 AM
Quote from: OCD on October 03, 2020, 12:32:24 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on October 02, 2020, 11:16:46 PM
He wasn't going to get us promoted until he did, but that was down to Grealish. He wasn't going to keep us up until he did, but that was down to lockdown. He couldn't attract big names until he did, but that was down to Terry. For someone who can't do anything he seems to have a lot happen regardless.

It's like politics. You form an opinion and then confirmation bias has people looking for whatever can be interpreted as supporting evidence. Anything that doesn't support that view must be down to outside factors.

Exactly this. There are pro and anti smith camps and in truth he’s given, and continues to give, evidence to both to support their cause.

It’s true he got us promoted, which deserves much credit, also true that having the best player in the division back from injury and winning games on his own played a part. Impossible to separate these factors.

It’s true he kept a poor squad up last year thanks to a great (overall) post lockdown run. It’s also true that he performed badly, overall, IMO, before lockdown, showing a lot of tactical naivety and intransigence, which put us in the position in the first place.

I don’t think reeling out the the end results repeatedly makes the criticisms of how we got there any less valid. Or that criticising him means you don’t want him to succeed.

Not disagreeing with your overall point. But Grealish didn’t win a single game on his own at any point. In the 10 game run to go up he was hugely influential, but wasn’t necessarily the best player in a fair number of those games, including the semi final away leg and final. SGM was just as influential in many of those games.

SGM...

Saint Gohn McGinn? Sven Goran Merikssen ?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on October 03, 2020, 09:52:37 AM
Quote from: LeeB on October 03, 2020, 08:55:03 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on October 02, 2020, 11:16:46 PM
He wasn't going to get us promoted until he did, but that was down to Grealish. He wasn't going to keep us up until he did, but that was down to lockdown. He couldn't attract big names until he did, but that was down to Terry. For someone who can't do anything he seems to have a lot happen regardless.

He must be very lucky Dave.

I like lucky managers.

You and Napoleon both.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on October 03, 2020, 10:02:39 AM
Quote from: Ads on October 03, 2020, 08:55:20 AM
The best performance in the 10 game run was McGinn away at Rotherham. The goal Grealish scored was sensational.

Those 4 days in Yorkshire with the win at Wednesday and Rotherham...that's when you knew it was happening.
Definitely. Nice and local for me, and stunning games.

We've had some great days at Hillsborough. The BFR opener will always stick in my memory.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: RamboandBruno on October 03, 2020, 11:41:18 AM
Quote from: eamonn on October 03, 2020, 09:44:53 AM
Quote from: RamboandBruno on October 03, 2020, 08:51:29 AM
Quote from: themossman on October 03, 2020, 08:43:35 AM
Quote from: OCD on October 03, 2020, 12:32:24 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on October 02, 2020, 11:16:46 PM
He wasn't going to get us promoted until he did, but that was down to Grealish. He wasn't going to keep us up until he did, but that was down to lockdown. He couldn't attract big names until he did, but that was down to Terry. For someone who can't do anything he seems to have a lot happen regardless.

It's like politics. You form an opinion and then confirmation bias has people looking for whatever can be interpreted as supporting evidence. Anything that doesn't support that view must be down to outside factors.

Exactly this. There are pro and anti smith camps and in truth he’s given, and continues to give, evidence to both to support their cause.

It’s true he got us promoted, which deserves much credit, also true that having the best player in the division back from injury and winning games on his own played a part. Impossible to separate these factors.

It’s true he kept a poor squad up last year thanks to a great (overall) post lockdown run. It’s also true that he performed badly, overall, IMO, before lockdown, showing a lot of tactical naivety and intransigence, which put us in the position in the first place.

I don’t think reeling out the the end results repeatedly makes the criticisms of how we got there any less valid. Or that criticising him means you don’t want him to succeed.

Not disagreeing with your overall point. But Grealish didn’t win a single game on his own at any point. In the 10 game run to go up he was hugely influential, but wasn’t necessarily the best player in a fair number of those games, including the semi final away leg and final. SGM was just as influential in many of those games.

SGM...

Saint Gohn McGinn? Sven Goran Merikssen ?

That’s the one!
Early morning bleary eyes and typing fingers, the general point remains 😊
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on October 03, 2020, 08:24:00 PM
Quote from: brian green on October 03, 2020, 08:30:30 AM
I have immense respect for those who have built H and V into the source of good judgement, humour and pleasure it is today.  I cannot rid myself of the nagging doubt that Dean Smith is either flawed or not yet fully fledged.  It is indisputable that his managerial qualiies have taken us from the swamp of the lower Championship to at least the foothills of the sunlit uplands of the Premiership.  Seventy percent of me believes he is the man to get us to a staging post from which we can unleash an assault on the peak.  Then, with unfailing regularity we have games like Stoke and the Mr Hyde in me emerges.  I am assailed with doubt that our future will be like our immediate past.  I have never wanted a Villa manager to succeed as much as I want Dean to succeed.  Liverpool is the perfect game to restore our spirits.  Ours and the players.

That doubt Brian, is based on the last decade at least of our history. Disappointment and not quite enough time after time.

Even before then we were nearly men, the 00s and 90s were littered with what might have been moments. And yet we fell.

Two League Cup wins are all well and good, but we should be aspiring to more, to more European nights. Time will tell if Smith can get us there, but so far he's met his brief, and he's learning and developing too. For once I don't doubt our owners intent, ability or bank balance either.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on October 03, 2020, 08:27:46 PM
Quote from: Drummond on October 03, 2020, 08:24:00 PM
Quote from: brian green on October 03, 2020, 08:30:30 AM
I have immense respect for those who have built H and V into the source of good judgement, humour and pleasure it is today.  I cannot rid myself of the nagging doubt that Dean Smith is either flawed or not yet fully fledged.  It is indisputable that his managerial qualiies have taken us from the swamp of the lower Championship to at least the foothills of the sunlit uplands of the Premiership.  Seventy percent of me believes he is the man to get us to a staging post from which we can unleash an assault on the peak.  Then, with unfailing regularity we have games like Stoke and the Mr Hyde in me emerges.  I am assailed with doubt that our future will be like our immediate past.  I have never wanted a Villa manager to succeed as much as I want Dean to succeed.  Liverpool is the perfect game to restore our spirits.  Ours and the players.

That doubt Brian, is based on the last decade at least of our history. Disappointment and not quite enough time after time.

Even before then we were nearly men, the 00s and 90s were littered with what might have been moments. And yet we fell.

Two League Cup wins are all well and good, but we should be aspiring to more, to more European nights. Time will tell if Smith can get us there, but so far he's met his brief, and he's learning and developing too. For once I don't doubt our owners intent, ability or bank balance either.

Good posts from both of you. I was critical of Smith last year, but the improvement after lockdown meant he deserved another crack.  I think the owners will rightly want an improvement this year, and would say that a mid-table finish will be thier target.  Another relelgation battle and I think they'd change tack next season, but things are going in the right direction so far.  I have to admit I wasn't that bothered about the Stoke loss, and would gladly accept that for a positive result tomorrow.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan For Life on October 03, 2020, 08:51:10 PM
It’s been mentioned on the Stoke post match thread already, but the Stoke result highlighted that our squad strength is poor. Our new starting XI would have comfortably dealt with Stoke. At the moment our squad is where I’d expect a squad that’s a year out of the Championship to be. We’ve invested, our first choice XI look good but the rest of the squad is Championship standard at best. We can address that by continuing to establish ourselves in the PL thus attracting a better standard of squad players and promoting the quality younger players that we have.

Don’t lose heart Brian, I think we are at the start of some good years after the dross of the last few seasons.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on October 03, 2020, 09:39:32 PM
Quote from: Risso on October 03, 2020, 08:27:46 PM
... I wasn't that bothered about the Stoke loss, and would gladly accept that for a positive result tomorrow.
Agreed.
The Stoke result was symptomatic of a squad in transition: we cannot bring in another 10 players during this window, which means we inevitably carry players who are not really Premier-League standard.
We have to focus on doing as well in the league as we can and this will enable us to invest again this time next year. Do enough pre-Christmas and we should be able to have a real go at the FA Cup.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Pat Mustard on October 03, 2020, 09:51:26 PM
All the Stoke result signified is that you can’t play all of that team together in the Premier League. For where we are at in our development we could carry a few of those players in some games and they wouldn’t let us down, helped by the higher quality we’ve now got in the rest of the the team.  The big problem last season was that post Christmas we were having to play a load of them (or similar if including Drinkwater, Samatta etc) together out of necessity.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on October 03, 2020, 10:53:02 PM
Quote from: Pat Mustard on October 03, 2020, 09:51:26 PM
All the Stoke result signified is that you can’t play all of that team together in the Premier League. For where we are at in our development we could carry a few of those players in some games and they wouldn’t let us down, helped by the higher quality we’ve now got in the rest of the the team.  The big problem last season was that post Christmas we were having to play a load of them (or similar if including Drinkwater, Samatta etc) together out of necessity.

More wise words from the hairy baby maker.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sickbeggar on October 03, 2020, 10:53:42 PM
Depends who gets crocked really. You can survive if you don't lose a Grealish, or a Luiz, or hopefully a Watkins if finds his shooting boots.  Otherwise you're stuffed
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dave P on October 03, 2020, 11:00:55 PM
Wouldn’t it be nice if we were mid table on around 30-35 points by Jan so we could have an assault on the FA Cup with first teamers?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 03, 2020, 11:06:06 PM
If we've got 35 points by the 3rd round we'll be in the title race!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: WilliamStanding on October 03, 2020, 11:17:12 PM
Surely even 6/7 points better off at that stage is progression and will not have squeaky bum time come May, talk of title races is pure lunacy from the nutters.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on October 03, 2020, 11:39:13 PM
Quote from: sickbeggar on October 03, 2020, 10:53:42 PM
Depends who gets crocked really. You can survive if you don't lose a Grealish, or a Luiz, or hopefully a Watkins if finds his shooting boots.  Otherwise you're stuffed

With Barkley coming in we'd be o.k if we lost McGinn to injury so he's one of our crown jewels we're in better shape to deal with if we lose him for 2-3 months again. Martinez gets the inevitable Villa keeper injury and Heaton should be back to come in so not a huge drop in quality there either.

Grealish is simply one of those that is irreplaceable, same as Man. City losing Aguero or Liverpool losing Van Dijk for periods. Results inevitably dip.

If we lose Doug then Nakamba comes in and Hause for Mings so those are the two areas where we suffer massive drop in quality but ultimately it's too much to think we'll have sufficent depth in every position in this window. It was all about making our first 11 better and I think we've done that.

Hopefully by next summer the squad will be much stronger and competitive.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on October 03, 2020, 11:45:36 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on October 03, 2020, 11:39:13 PM
Quote from: sickbeggar on October 03, 2020, 10:53:42 PM
Depends who gets crocked really. You can survive if you don't lose a Grealish, or a Luiz, or hopefully a Watkins if finds his shooting boots.  Otherwise you're stuffed

With Barkley coming in we'd be o.k if we lost McGinn to injury so he's one of our crown jewels we're in better shape to deal with if we lose him for 2-3 months again. Martinez gets the inevitable Villa keeper injury and Heaton should be back to come in so not a huge drop in quality there either.

Grealish is simply one of those that is irreplaceable, same as Man. City losing Aguero or Liverpool losing Van Dijk for periods. Results inevitably dip.

If we lose Doug then Nakamba comes in and Hause for Mings so those are the two areas where we suffer massive drop in quality but ultimately it's too much to think we'll have sufficent depth in every position in this window. It was all about making our first 11 better and I think we've done that.

Hopefully by next summer the squad will be much stronger and competitive.

Steer for Martinez, Elmo or Guilbert for Cash, Hourihane for Barkley and Trez or Traore for the other one are the only spots where the replacement isn't a huge step down in quality.  At the moment we have no fit central defensive options, and nothing decent up front either.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on October 04, 2020, 12:26:44 AM
Quote from: Risso on October 03, 2020, 11:45:36 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on October 03, 2020, 11:39:13 PM
Quote from: sickbeggar on October 03, 2020, 10:53:42 PM
Depends who gets crocked really. You can survive if you don't lose a Grealish, or a Luiz, or hopefully a Watkins if finds his shooting boots.  Otherwise you're stuffed

With Barkley coming in we'd be o.k if we lost McGinn to injury so he's one of our crown jewels we're in better shape to deal with if we lose him for 2-3 months again. Martinez gets the inevitable Villa keeper injury and Heaton should be back to come in so not a huge drop in quality there either.

Grealish is simply one of those that is irreplaceable, same as Man. City losing Aguero or Liverpool losing Van Dijk for periods. Results inevitably dip.

If we lose Doug then Nakamba comes in and Hause for Mings so those are the two areas where we suffer massive drop in quality but ultimately it's too much to think we'll have sufficent depth in every position in this window. It was all about making our first 11 better and I think we've done that.

Hopefully by next summer the squad will be much stronger and competitive.

Steer for Martinez, Elmo or Guilbert for Cash, Hourihane for Barkley and Trez or Traore for the other one are the only spots where the replacement isn't a huge step down in quality.  At the moment we have no fit central defensive options, and nothing decent up front either.

Well Heaton will be fit in a few weeks so I see that as more of long term option than Jed. Can't grumble with having England international as backup keeper.

AEM did fine in the run in last season and has fantastic mentality so he's fine as back up to Cash who's looked good so far but will be tested by world class attack tomorrow so first look if he's up to it defensively.

AEM at CB is much more of a worry, don't really understand why we haven't looked at getting in a short term CB as Mings hamstring goes again and it's going to be a downgrade whoever plays there.

No argument upfront. Davis is willing and has some good qualities but no one believes he's ever actually going to score a premier league goal.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sickbeggar on October 04, 2020, 12:45:07 AM
I suppose its all relative really. We're much better  off than 12 months ago, but you could add or subtract 10 points depending on if we lose someone because we haven't got the squad players teams like liverpool and the like can bring in and not see too much a drop in quality. But then, there's a good few teams in exactly the same position. We really do need another striker though.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on October 04, 2020, 08:50:41 PM
I’m sorry. That is all.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on October 04, 2020, 09:07:59 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on October 04, 2020, 08:50:41 PM
I’m sorry. That is all.

Ha ha, good lad.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: WilliamStanding on October 04, 2020, 09:15:51 PM
Fair play to the apologists, takes a big man.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on October 04, 2020, 09:25:19 PM
Tactics bang on. Brilliant game for Dean
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on October 04, 2020, 09:31:09 PM
Give it 12 months, they'll all be trying to find themselves a manager that supported the club as a kid and who's Dad worked threre, it will be the new vogue.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Axl Rose on October 04, 2020, 09:31:34 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on October 04, 2020, 08:50:41 PM
I’m sorry. That is all.

Haha. Same here.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Monty on October 04, 2020, 09:42:08 PM
I've doubted him in the past, and of course he's made mistakes, who hasn't, but by Christ today was one of the most astonishing vindications of a manager in Villa history, an almighty repaying of his faith in the players, and an extraordinary demonstration of his vision for how we should play. A famous day for Dean Smith.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on October 04, 2020, 09:45:48 PM
If United come calling for Dean they can fuck off. He will only leave for England. I almost forgive him for Stoke City.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on October 04, 2020, 09:49:50 PM
Quote from: Monty on October 04, 2020, 09:42:08 PM
I've doubted him in the past, and of course he's made mistakes, who hasn't, but by Christ today was one of the most astonishing vindications of a manager in Villa history, an almighty repaying of his faith in the players, and an extraordinary demonstration of his vision for how we should play. A famous day for Dean Smith.

This for me pretty much. That game vindicates him in every way - tactics, players, philosophy. Nice one Dean.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on October 04, 2020, 10:05:35 PM
Sometimes we cannot visualize the destination because we are so obsessed with the details of the journey.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on October 04, 2020, 10:08:36 PM
We can't keep missing chances like that though. The better teams will punish us(!)

Monty says it all, and better than I would. I love Dean Smith, and I want him signed up to a ten year contract.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hilts_coolerking on October 04, 2020, 10:13:59 PM
Quote from: themossman on October 04, 2020, 09:49:50 PM
Quote from: Monty on October 04, 2020, 09:42:08 PM
I've doubted him in the past, and of course he's made mistakes, who hasn't, but by Christ today was one of the most astonishing vindications of a manager in Villa history, an almighty repaying of his faith in the players, and an extraordinary demonstration of his vision for how we should play. A famous day for Dean Smith.

This for me pretty much. That game vindicates him in every way - tactics, players, philosophy. Nice one Dean.
Yep, the way he used the break to alter his approach, to coach the team, and build confidence says a great deal about him.  The transformation has been remarkable.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on October 04, 2020, 10:15:23 PM
Agreed.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The_ads on October 04, 2020, 10:16:15 PM
I’m old enough to remember June when people were calling for Sam Allardyce. UTFV
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on October 04, 2020, 10:17:17 PM
Quote from: The_ads on October 04, 2020, 10:16:15 PM
I’m old enough to remember June when people were calling for Sam Allardyce. UTFV

Every June.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 04, 2020, 10:17:25 PM
I'm still irked that we didn't score 10, I'm keeping an eye on you Dean!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on October 04, 2020, 10:18:06 PM
Quote from: The_ads on October 04, 2020, 10:16:15 PM
I’m old enough to remember June when people were calling for Sam Allardyce. UTFV

Yes. Nice of you to roll in tonight. Many of us just wanted to stay up and had the break not happened we might have gone down. But don't let that stop you ignore how things were.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The_ads on October 04, 2020, 10:20:56 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on October 04, 2020, 10:18:06 PM
Quote from: The_ads on October 04, 2020, 10:16:15 PM
I’m old enough to remember June when people were calling for Sam Allardyce. UTFV

Yes. Nice of you to roll in tonight. Many of us just wanted to stay up and had the break not happened we might have gone down. But don't let that stop you ignore how things were.

You are always so defensive. I wasn’t having a direct pop at any body.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: gpbarr on October 04, 2020, 10:24:23 PM
Time to join in eating humble pie - I wasn’t convinced but frankly I’d walk to Aston to polish his shoes after that.

Give him the keys now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on October 04, 2020, 10:25:31 PM
Quote from: The_ads on October 04, 2020, 10:20:56 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on October 04, 2020, 10:18:06 PM
Quote from: The_ads on October 04, 2020, 10:16:15 PM
I’m old enough to remember June when people were calling for Sam Allardyce. UTFV

Yes. Nice of you to roll in tonight. Many of us just wanted to stay up and had the break not happened we might have gone down. But don't let that stop you ignore how things were.

You are always so defensive. I wasn’t having a direct pop at any body.

Not defensive at all. Why bring it up at all tonight?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on October 04, 2020, 10:26:23 PM
No real need at the moment, is there?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: charleeco7 on October 04, 2020, 10:31:21 PM
Whatever the future brings Smith will certainly go down in our history books as a manager who broke a few records and brought us some good times. Top man.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on October 04, 2020, 10:34:15 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on October 04, 2020, 10:05:35 PM
Sometimes we cannot visualize the destination because we are so obsessed with the details of the journey.
Thank you Mr Lama ;D
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on October 04, 2020, 10:43:10 PM
Quote from: olaftab on October 04, 2020, 10:34:15 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on October 04, 2020, 10:05:35 PM
Sometimes we cannot visualize the destination because we are so obsessed with the details of the journey.
Thank you Mr Lama ;D

Be blessed and be at peace my son.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: not3bad on October 04, 2020, 11:48:19 PM
I have to admit, it's getting better
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 04, 2020, 11:55:12 PM
100 points and 100 goals has to be the minimum requirement now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on October 05, 2020, 12:00:00 AM
I've said a few times that I firmly believe Smith's plan all along was for us to play the Liverpool do. You could see all the parts were there but it just wasn't quite working. Tonight it all came together and we smashed them playing their game. We pressed high and as soon as there was a heavy touch or a loose pass we swarmed them. If they broke the press we pushed them to playing where we wanted and when we go the ball back we broke quickly into the gaps they left. Everything was positive, looking to put a man into space and Liverpool were too shell-shocked to know how to change things up. I think a lot of teams will look at what we've done tonight and have some nerves about really attacking us because we were utterly ruthless going forward, yes it could've been 3-4 more (which is testament to the quality of chances we were creating) but 7 goals from 18 shots is an incredible strike rate.

We'll still need to work out how to handle teams that park the bus but that's a conversation for another time.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on October 05, 2020, 12:01:28 AM
Go on Dean, bring one more player in, please.

Doing a great job, really growing in to the Premier Division as a Manager. Well done sir.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on October 05, 2020, 12:01:34 AM
What can I say. 11/10 in the league so far.

Tonight is why I wasn't too bothered about going out to Stoke.

We should give the FA cup a proper go though.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on October 05, 2020, 12:15:26 AM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on October 04, 2020, 11:55:12 PM
100 points and 100 goals has to be the minimum requirement now.

It's about time somebody broke the record for the most goals scored in a top flight season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on October 05, 2020, 12:18:21 AM
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on October 05, 2020, 12:15:26 AM
Quote from: PeterWithesShin on October 04, 2020, 11:55:12 PM
100 points and 100 goals has to be the minimum requirement now.

It's about time somebody broke the record for the most goals scored in a top flight season.

Another of our records for him to break.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Footy-Vill on October 05, 2020, 12:19:37 AM
Best English coach in the league.
Never stop trusting this guy!
Best man for the job!
Man needs a new contract !
Deano -always super proud!
You're my coaching hero
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villa Lew on October 05, 2020, 09:15:53 AM
Full credit to the owners and Purslow for sticking with him, when most other Premier league clubs would've given him the boot.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: West Derby Villan on October 05, 2020, 09:28:39 AM
Quote from: paul_e on October 05, 2020, 12:00:00 AM
I've said a few times that I firmly believe Smith's plan all along was for us to play the Liverpool do. You could see all the parts were there but it just wasn't quite working. Tonight it all came together and we smashed them playing their game. We pressed high and as soon as there was a heavy touch or a loose pass we swarmed them. If they broke the press we pushed them to playing where we wanted and when we go the ball back we broke quickly into the gaps they left. Everything was positive, looking to put a man into space and Liverpool were too shell-shocked to know how to change things up. I think a lot of teams will look at what we've done tonight and have some nerves about really attacking us because we were utterly ruthless going forward, yes it could've been 3-4 more (which is testament to the quality of chances we were creating) but 7 goals from 18 shots is an incredible strike rate.

We'll still need to work out how to handle teams that park the bus but that's a conversation for another time.

Totally agree with this Paul
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Scratchins on October 05, 2020, 09:43:17 AM
I just wish my brother could have seen this and I bet Dean is thinking the same about his dad.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: exigo on October 05, 2020, 09:58:04 AM
I won't lie, it annoyed me a bit on Thursday to see a Villa manager smiling as the players came off after a defeat, even 'just' a cup defeat. And fist-bumping them too.
But he's more than earned an even bigger smile at the weekend.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on October 05, 2020, 10:12:10 AM
I wanted him gone last season for certain.  I went to the final game away at Leicester before lockdown, and it was as bad as anything I've seen in the dismal last 10 years.  No tactics, no effort from the players and we were murdered in every department.  I think we'd had a bad January transfer window too, especially with the Drinkwater farce, and while we'll never know for sure, I'm certain that had lockdown not happened, we'd have been relegated without a whimper.  But fair play, he used the time off well, and we came back a decent team. 

Credit to the owners for sticking with him, because the transformation since is amazing, and last night was the best performance I've seen in 40 years of supporting Villa.  We've battered teams before, but not the reigning champions in such a complete manner.  They really couldn't have had any complaints if they'd suffered the biggest defeat in top flight history, because we could have had another 5, easily.

If that's TLDR, then, "sorry Dean".
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on October 05, 2020, 10:22:23 AM
Quote from: Risso on October 05, 2020, 10:12:10 AM
I wanted him gone last season for certain.  I went to the final game away at Leicester before lockdown, and it was as bad as anything I've seen in the dismal last 10 years.  No tactics, no effort from the players and we were murdered in every department.  I think we'd had a bad January transfer window too, especially with the Drinkwater farce, and while we'll never know for sure, I'm certain that had lockdown not happened, we'd have been relegated without a whimper.  But fair play, he used the time off well, and we came back a decent team. 

Credit to the owners for sticking with him, because the transformation since is amazing, and last night was the best performance I've seen in 40 years of supporting Villa.  We've battered teams before, but not the reigning champions in such a complete manner.  They really couldn't have had any complaints if they'd suffered the biggest defeat in top flight history, because we could have had another 5, easily.

If that's TLDR, then, "sorry Dean".

*Applause*
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ketzster on October 05, 2020, 10:27:06 AM
The transformation in a short space of time is extraordinary. I’ve been going for 30 years and I can’t remember a better performance than that off the top of my head. The Villa just tore them to shreds. People will talk about Liverpool and their high line in the media but that’s what they’ve been doing for years. Last Monday they were saying Liverpool wouldn’t lose a game after the Arsenal game so it wasn’t as though it was a Liverpool team that had fallen apart. It was an incredible evening and one that we will never forget, and if he’d been sacked a few months like many of us wanted, a night we wouldn’t have seen. So I’m delighted to have been proved wrong
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on October 05, 2020, 10:36:54 AM
Quote from: Scratchins on October 05, 2020, 09:43:17 AM
I just wish my brother could have seen this and I bet Dean is thinking the same about his dad.
:(
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 05, 2020, 10:41:08 AM
Well done Dean (and coaches) great work to identify, and exploit, Liverpool’s weakness. I’m surprised, and delighted, they didn’t adapt. But it was great preparation work.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sickbeggar on October 05, 2020, 11:00:55 AM
Well he handed Klopp his arse on a plate tactically for one of the few times in his career. C+
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: West Derby Villan on October 05, 2020, 11:01:10 AM
Well done Dean Smith. Shows what he can do when he picks his own transfer targets.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OCD on October 05, 2020, 11:46:02 AM
Quote from: sickbeggar on October 05, 2020, 11:00:55 AM
Well he handed Klopp his arse on a plate tactically for one of the few times in his career. C+

C+?

What was required for an A*?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sickbeggar on October 05, 2020, 11:50:31 AM
I enjoy giving faint praise......…. Actually I was deliberately playing down the achievement for effect.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on October 05, 2020, 12:02:07 PM
Quote from: Ketzster on October 05, 2020, 10:27:06 AM
The transformation in a short space of time is extraordinary. I’ve been going for 30 years and I can’t remember a better performance than that off the top of my head. The Villa just tore them to shreds. People will talk about Liverpool and their high line in the media but that’s what they’ve been doing for years. Last Monday they were saying Liverpool wouldn’t lose a game after the Arsenal game so it wasn’t as though it was a Liverpool team that had fallen apart. It was an incredibleevening and one that we will never forget, and if he’d been sacked a few months like many of us wanted, a night we wouldn’t have seen. So I’m delighted to have been proved wrong
The best game at VP, for me, since 15th December 1976 when we mullered Liverpool 5-1. At least I was there for that one
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on October 05, 2020, 01:43:12 PM
What this result has done, more than anything else, is restore the belief that we can beat anyone. For far too long we've stuttered, we've lost points against the 'top 3/4/6' and now we've just absolutely demolished the reigning champions.

Thank you Mr Smith.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on October 05, 2020, 02:47:20 PM
Quote from: Drummond on October 05, 2020, 01:43:12 PM
What this result has done, more than anything else, is restore the belief that we can beat anyone. For far too long we've stuttered, we've lost points against the 'top 3/4/6' and now we've just absolutely demolished the reigning champions.

Thank you Mr Smith.

Indeed.  I'm prepared to accept that we *might* just miss out on the title, but every team is going to worry about catching us on the wrong day now.  It's one thing planning to stop Grealish, they've now got to include Barkley, Watkins and McGinn in the mix.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on October 05, 2020, 02:51:18 PM
Before the match I was going to lead on how we give too much respect to the big clubs; we always talk about free hits and the like. That's not happening now.   
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tomd2103 on October 05, 2020, 03:03:25 PM
Very early in the season, but the international break gives a chance to reflect on the start of the season.  I think Dean Smith has quickly learnt lessons from last season, which is a very encouraging sign. 

He's added some experience to his coaching staff with the introduction of Craig Shakespeare and he has addressed some of the weakest parts of the side with what look so far, better quality replacements.

The only blemish so far was the result against Stoke in the League Cup, but it has been a very good start to the season apart from that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: GordonCowansisthegreatest on October 05, 2020, 03:17:16 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on October 05, 2020, 02:51:18 PM
Before the match I was going to lead on how we give too much respect to the big clubs; we always talk about free hits and the like. That's not happening now.   
Leicester can have a free hit next match!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: passport1 on October 05, 2020, 03:27:48 PM
I've been critical and had my doubts but I have to say the way they/he  addressed both the management  deficiencies from .last season ( the addition of Shakespeare  with Premiership know how) and the significant upgrades in player recruitment  has been very impressive.

It harks back to the great  days when Saunders improved teams season on season but but also surrounded himself with very able luitenants.

Mr Smith you may well be laying the foundations  to something  very significant.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Hookeysmith on October 05, 2020, 03:48:35 PM
Well done Dean - could not be more pleased for such an endearing, honest, hardworking Brummie Villa man.

I just really wish it was The Manchesteroveratedbunchofcnuts United next and we could spank them as we owe them big style
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OCD on October 05, 2020, 09:34:03 PM
After yesterday a lot of fans were probably checking their fixture list to see when they'll be playing them.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dave P on October 06, 2020, 01:06:18 PM
Quote from: OCD on October 05, 2020, 09:34:03 PM
After yesterday a lot of fans were probably checking their fixture list to see when they'll be playing them.

Like I did by checking when we had Man Utd.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on October 06, 2020, 02:02:51 PM
Quote from: Ketzster on October 05, 2020, 10:27:06 AM
The transformation in a short space of time is extraordinary. I’ve been going for 30 years and I can’t remember a better performance than that off the top of my head. The Villa just tore them to shreds. People will talk about Liverpool and their high line in the media but that’s what they’ve been doing for years. Last Monday they were saying Liverpool wouldn’t lose a game after the Arsenal game so it wasn’t as though it was a Liverpool team that had fallen apart. It was an incredible evening and one that we will never forget, and if he’d been sacked a few months like many of us wanted, a night we wouldn’t have seen. So I’m delighted to have been proved wrong

Totally disagree under Big Sam it would have been 10.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Smithy on October 06, 2020, 02:50:08 PM
As others have said, before the Liverpool game I was thinking of it as a 'free hit' with zero expectation on Dean or the players. To me, it was nothing more than a way to see how we'd developed the first 11 from last season, and hopefully to get a goal or two on our way to an almost inevitable defeat. 

Shame on me.

The challenge now, as I see it, is to keep the performance levels up there for the season to come.  There is no way we're going to reproduce that level of performance every week - it's impossible.  But hopefully that has shifted the level for what we consider an "acceptable" performance for the rest of the season. 

We're going to lose games. There'll be games we should win, and won't.  But there is absolutely no reason we shouldn't give everyone we play a proper game.  No more meek surrenders like away at Southampton and Leicester, no more capitulations like Man City at home.  We try and bloody the nose of everyone we play.

Right now, I feel like we have a chance to win every game.  We won't, obviously, but there is no reason at all to fear any side in the league.  And more importantly, the teams we play will now be fearful they might be facing us on a day when we 'click'.

If at the start of the season you'd offered me 9 points clear of relegation and a 14 goal difference better than the best side in the bottom three by Christmas - I'd have snapped your hand off (it would have put us 8th at Xmas last season).

The fact we're there after three games is mind-blowing! :-)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KevinGage on October 06, 2020, 03:02:26 PM
Quote from: passport1 on October 05, 2020, 03:27:48 PM
I've been critical and had my doubts but I have to say the way they/he  addressed both the management  deficiencies from .last season ( the addition of Shakespeare  with Premiership know how) and the significant upgrades in player recruitment  has been very impressive.

It harks back to the great  days when Saunders improved teams season on season but but also surrounded himself with very able luitenants.

Mr Smith you may well be laying the foundations  to something  very significant.

It's one of the things Fergiescum did well (and no, I'm not suggesting Smith will go on to have a fraction of his or Saunders' success).

Beetroot features was your standard 4-4-2 merchant late 80s to mid 90s with jobs for his mates as assistants up until the late 90s. Then he brought in Steve McLaren (don't laugh) who was the first to use ProZone (individual video analysis for players) and other insights of that nature. Later it was Carlos Queiroz, and they started playing a flexible 4/3/3 with the top three all switching position.

I'm not sure if he was Smith's selection, but Thomas Frank worked under him as assistant at Brentford and is now doing well in his own right.

He seems humble enough to take input from a range of sources and is not afraid to shake it up with a new voice.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on October 06, 2020, 03:51:58 PM
Quote from: KevinGage on October 06, 2020, 03:02:26 PM
Quote from: passport1 on October 05, 2020, 03:27:48 PM
I've been critical and had my doubts but I have to say the way they/he  addressed both the management  deficiencies from .last season ( the addition of Shakespeare  with Premiership know how) and the significant upgrades in player recruitment  has been very impressive.

It harks back to the great  days when Saunders improved teams season on season but but also surrounded himself with very able luitenants.

Mr Smith you may well be laying the foundations  to something  very significant.

It's one of the things Fergiescum did well (and no, I'm not suggesting Smith will go on to have a fraction of his or Saunders' success).

Beetroot features was your standard 4-4-2 merchant late 80s to mid 90s with jobs for his mates as assistants up until the late 90s. Then he brought in Steve McLaren (don't laugh) who was the first to use ProZone (individual video analysis for players) and other insights of that nature. Later it was Carlos Queiroz, and they started playing a flexible 4/3/3 with the top three all switching position.

I'm not sure if he was Smith's selection, but Thomas Frank worked under him as assistant at Brentford and is now doing well in his own right.

He seems humble enough to take input from a range of sources and is not afraid to shake it up with a new voice.

And while Mr Saunders did virtually everything himself, he brought in the best scout in the country and wasn't averse to changing his tactics -moving from an orthodox winger to three strikers with width coming from the full-backs was revolutionary..
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Somniloquism on October 06, 2020, 04:05:51 PM
Quote from: Smithy on October 06, 2020, 02:50:08 PM
As others have said, before the Liverpool game I was thinking of it as a 'free hit' with zero expectation on Dean or the players. To me, it was nothing more than a way to see how we'd developed the first 11 from last season, and hopefully to get a goal or two on our way to an almost inevitable defeat. 

Shame on me.

The challenge now, as I see it, is to keep the performance levels up there for the season to come.  There is no way we're going to reproduce that level of performance every week - it's impossible.  But hopefully that has shifted the level for what we consider an "acceptable" performance for the rest of the season. 

We're going to lose games. There'll be games we should win, and won't.  But there is absolutely no reason we shouldn't give everyone we play a proper game.  No more meek surrenders like away at Southampton and Leicester, no more capitulations like Man City at home.  We try and bloody the nose of everyone we play.

Right now, I feel like we have a chance to win every game.  We won't, obviously, but there is no reason at all to fear any side in the league.  And more importantly, the teams we play will now be fearful they might be facing us on a day when we 'click'.


Totally agree. We outplayed Liverpool because we saw a weakness and exploited it about 12 times in the match and also had that bit of luck you get when you try it. Other teams will put the men behind the ball and tell us to break them down and sometimes we will struggle. However what I have seen from most of our league play this season and post Covid Break, is we now also have a defense at the back we didn't have for most of last season so I'm hoping that if we score one against these teams defensive, it means three pts instead of one or none which happened too many times last season. I also hope that we don't see us score early and sit back as well which happened too much last season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: fredm on October 06, 2020, 05:01:27 PM
We also had shots on goal which we didn't do last season. People would get near the penalty area and then pass it to someone else to take responsibility. It was the one thing missing (IMO) from Grealish's locker.  If you have shots they might go wide or over, they might fly in or, as Sunday, you might get a little bit of luck with a deflection.  But if you don't shot you will never get any of this.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: supertom on October 06, 2020, 05:09:33 PM
On a general note. If the first games of this season have proved anything, it's that no one should be shown too much respect or fear in this division. Fucking get at them. Whether it's liverpool or City, or whoever. We did that and we got rewarded. I think this season as a spectacle will be special.

What's really pleased me about Smith is that he's learned from last season. He's made a clear and concerted effort on our defensive organisation. He's made us more direct and incisive going forward. He's added significant quality in key areas, with seemingly players of a cohesive attitude. It's not peppering players left and right, or anything that feels desperate (conversely, Utd signing Cavani, whether he works or not, looks desperate). We seem well drilled. We seem to have a plan and we seem to be heading in the right direction. That top 6, and places in it are wide open. No we won't win the league, but who's to say we can't have a top half finish and continue to impress?

We've won three games. What has been most impressive? Sheffield Utd down to 10 men. We don't do wins against 10 men. We won. Fulham away. Last season we struggled in winning a lot of the 6 pointers, and we weren't ruthless enough when the momentum was in our favour. We blitzed them 3-0. Likewise, even when we got in an advantage against top 6 sides last season, we all too often retreated and then capitulated. We beat Liverpool 7-2, with a perfectly executed and frankly ruthless, relentless display.

I really think Deano has turned a corner. Lets see how things play out if we go on a run of games without winning, but I hope he's got contingencies. He's had to make a big step up, but he's learned from it and the fact he's outthinking managers now, is very pleasing. Some games we gave too much respect to the opposition, rather than being more pro-active in playing to our strengths. I'd hope we're luckier with injuries too because losing McGinn, our first choice keeper, our striker, Mings, Grealish (for various lengths) was unlucky. I feel like we've got more options to cope now too and players who were warming to the league, are now better for a season under it.

If you're ourselves, among several clubs who (finished below 6th and) have spent well, whilst the supposed big 6 have had indifferent starts, you have to be going for it this season, because potentially it's as wide open as it's been for decades. We seem very positive, likewise Everton. There wil be a couple of surprises within that top 6 I think. I've got that good feeling we had under Little in 95. We've got our best first 11 since Houlliers side, but there's a lot more team unity (which is also a key factor, and again, another positive influence from Deano).
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on October 06, 2020, 06:19:42 PM
We've done well. The downside is that opposition managers may spend a little more time on analysing us than perhaps they used to ... it's no longer "get Grealish-stop Villa". I think we can expect rather tougher games than we've had so far.

I think the International break came at a really good time; dampening the hyperbole and giving the players the chance to reflect on the amazingness of that game.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on October 06, 2020, 06:23:42 PM
We owe Leicester big time for two abysmal games last year, so I hope we've saved some of the Liverpool game spirit for them.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: RamboandBruno on October 06, 2020, 07:31:40 PM
Quote from: Risso on October 06, 2020, 06:23:42 PM
We owe Leicester big time for two abysmal games last year, so I hope we've saved some of the Liverpool game spirit for them.

Agree with that. Leicester away was in particular the night I thought we were (wrongly) down. Love to turn them over at their place
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on October 06, 2020, 07:39:13 PM
Our defensive line in the 1-4 at home was horrendous.

Almost as bad as Liverpools on Sunday.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: WilliamStanding on October 06, 2020, 08:49:25 PM
We don’t owe Leicester a dime, we stayed up and had a day at Wembley at their expense.

They will be not looking forward to playing us.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SaddVillan on October 07, 2020, 07:22:14 PM
Saturday is the 2nd Anniversary of Dean Smith's appointment.

1st season - promotion
2nd season - Wembley Final
3rd Season -?

Raise a glass on Saturday, to all that he's done so far.

Then raise a second glass to our future.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SheffieldVillain on October 07, 2020, 07:32:35 PM
Quote from: SaddVillan on October 07, 2020, 07:22:14 PM
Saturday is the 2nd Anniversary of Dean Smith's appointment.

1st season - promotion
2nd season - Wembley Final
3rd Season -?

Raise a glass on Saturday, to all that he's done so far.

Then raise a second glass to our future.

3rd Season: F.A. Cup winners. Grealish winner. Picture of Deano and Jack lifting the cup together, two of 'ours' getting us the cup back for the first time in 60+ years. 

Would it ever be possible to better that?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on October 07, 2020, 07:48:41 PM
Quote from: SheffieldVillain on October 07, 2020, 07:32:35 PM
Quote from: SaddVillan on October 07, 2020, 07:22:14 PM
Saturday is the 2nd Anniversary of Dean Smith's appointment.

1st season - promotion
2nd season - Wembley Final
3rd Season -?

Raise a glass on Saturday, to all that he's done so far.

Then raise a second glass to our future.

3rd Season: F.A. Cup winners. Grealish winner. Picture of Deano and Jack lifting the cup together, two of 'ours' getting us the cup back for the first time in 60+ years. 

Would it ever be possible to better that?


Being there to see it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT on October 07, 2020, 08:03:11 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on October 07, 2020, 07:48:41 PM
Quote from: SheffieldVillain on October 07, 2020, 07:32:35 PM
Quote from: SaddVillan on October 07, 2020, 07:22:14 PM
Saturday is the 2nd Anniversary of Dean Smith's appointment.

1st season - promotion
2nd season - Wembley Final
3rd Season -?

Raise a glass on Saturday, to all that he's done so far.

Then raise a second glass to our future.

3rd Season: F.A. Cup winners. Grealish winner. Picture of Deano and Jack lifting the cup together, two of 'ours' getting us the cup back for the first time in 60+ years. 

Would it ever be possible to better that?


Being there to see it.

It’s going to happen isn’t it? This will be the year.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: purpletrousers on October 07, 2020, 10:09:35 PM
Well Dean does take us to Wembley every season, so it’s the only option left, right?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: charlatan on October 07, 2020, 10:58:31 PM
Alas the semi gets you to Wembley.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: purpletrousers on October 07, 2020, 11:45:05 PM
Quote from: charlatan on October 07, 2020, 10:58:31 PM
Alas the semi gets you to Wembley.

Ah yes, of course.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: maidstonevillain on October 08, 2020, 01:30:20 AM
Quote from: purpletrousers on October 07, 2020, 11:45:05 PM
Quote from: charlatan on October 07, 2020, 10:58:31 PM
Alas the semi gets you to Wembley.

Ah yes, of course.

Ah. But Dean takes us to a final every season........
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: DrGonzo on October 09, 2020, 04:18:02 PM
And the final day of the season, too! 

I hope all his nay sayers are at least willing to give him time now.  I'm not so naive to believe that it is now going to be a walk in the park, there is a long way to go and there will be many bumps in the road.  There is now some optimism, enthusiasm and hope, something we have all lacked for too long. UTV!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave shelley on October 09, 2020, 06:30:30 PM
I'm impressed with the staff he has assembled around him, vastly experienced coaches with the exception of John Terry who, to his credit is there to learn and, if the reports are to be believed, has resisted the opportunity to take the main gig elsewhere. I hope this feel-good feeling continues.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on October 10, 2020, 10:04:59 AM
Happy anniversary to this thread, long may it continue.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on October 10, 2020, 01:52:53 PM
His first game

https://twitter.com/avfcarchive/status/1314850899618037760?s=21
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on October 15, 2020, 09:13:53 AM
Ron Saunders trending in twitter

don’t know if it’s just personalised or it’s nationwide but still nice to see
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: richtheholtender on October 19, 2020, 04:55:34 PM
Anybody seen his talk at tiger lab on YouTube? I’ve only watched the opening minutes, watching the rest later.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 19, 2020, 06:03:56 PM
Well done Dean keep it up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 21, 2020, 03:17:22 PM
Quote
Aston Villa boss Dean Smith says his players are keeping their feet "firmly on the ground" to avoid "getting a bloody nose very quickly".

Villa have won their opening four games and will go top of the Premier League for the first time since 2011 if they avoid defeat by Leeds United on Friday.

But after relegation worries last term, Smith is wary of getting carried away.

"To come through those with maximum points certainly exceeds expectations," he said.

"Sheffield United, Fulham and ourselves would have looked at those opening two games and seen an opportunity to pick up points.

"We managed to win both of them and then you go into Liverpool and Leicester, who are both top-five teams.

"Our feet are firmly on the ground because, if you're off it at any stage in the league, you can get a bloody nose very quickly."

Having escaped relegation to the Championship by a point on the final day of the 2019-20 season, Villa have carried their strong end-of-season form into the new campaign.

A 1-0 win over Sheffield United and 3-0 victory at Fulham was followed by a remarkable 7-2 thrashing of Liverpool and then Sunday's 1-0 victory at Leicester.

Those results mean Villa face Marcelo Bielsa's side with the opportunity of winning five consecutive matches at the start of a season for the first time in their history.

Among the players to have shone for Villa during their excellent start is on-loan Chelsea midfielder Ross Barkley, who marked his debut with a goal against Liverpool before scoring the winner against Leicester.

"He's made a big impact," Smith added.

"The fact we've gone out and managed to entice that calibre of player into the squad has certainly gone down well in the dressing room and with our staff and fans as well.

"He's a top player, who has been in and amongst the Champions League for the last two or three years of his career. He's been a regular starter for England too.

"He's not played the amount of minutes he's wanted to [at Chelsea], and we've managed to get him to Aston Villa.

"His job now is to produce performances for Aston Villa that take the eye of Gareth Southgate and get him back into the England squad."
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 23, 2020, 10:24:52 PM
Really good start to the season, but desperately poor tonight both in terms of preparation for the opponent and the lack of response once it was clear it wasn’t working. Dean needs to reflect on that and sort it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on October 23, 2020, 10:27:59 PM
I'm sure he will.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on October 23, 2020, 10:32:23 PM
Really hope this isn't the start of the annual three month winless run, we should be better than that this season.

Problem in premier league you don't win a couple v mid table teams and then suddenly you're on a run of Spurs, Chelsea, Manchester clubs etc and that's how 7-8 match winless runs happen but just looking at fixtures and we've got a decent run up to end of December so would be hugely disappointed if we go into our shells now after a bad defeat which has been a massive problem for us for the last decade.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on October 23, 2020, 10:44:31 PM
A very poor night for Dean Smith, one like for like sub when it was pretty obvious that we were in serious trouble tactically.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy65 on October 23, 2020, 10:45:02 PM
The lack of any reaction is the most disappointing whether it’s tactics or subs. Outplayed the last 30 mins
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: itbrvilla on October 23, 2020, 10:46:32 PM
Quote from: Rudy65 on October 23, 2020, 10:45:02 PM
The lack of any reaction is the most disappointing whether it’s tactics or subs. Outplayed the last 30 mins
outplayed for 80 odd minutes. He has a habit of not reacting
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on October 23, 2020, 10:53:01 PM
I wouldn't mind but tactically I really liked our shape against Leicester. But that was a complete horror show tonight. All of last year's failings exposed again particularly the inability to change things tactically.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on October 23, 2020, 10:54:45 PM
What i don't like is that we allowed them to bully us, forcing Martinez to go long with the ball because they did to us what we did to Liverpool by pressing high up the pitch.  Very, very poor defensively tonight, from all over the pitch.  We needed that first goal really, might have made a difference.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on October 23, 2020, 11:21:58 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on October 23, 2020, 10:44:31 PM
A very poor night for Dean Smith, one like for like sub when it was pretty obvious that we were in serious trouble tactically.


We have no strength in depth though.  There's literally no other sub that was worth making.  Other than for injuries and suspensions, he'll be swapping Trez and Traore for the foreseeable future.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on October 23, 2020, 11:36:25 PM
Quote from: Risso on October 23, 2020, 11:21:58 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on October 23, 2020, 10:44:31 PM
A very poor night for Dean Smith, one like for like sub when it was pretty obvious that we were in serious trouble tactically.


We have no strength in depth though.  There's literally no other sub that was worth making.  Other than for injuries and suspensions, he'll be swapping Trez and Traore for the foreseeable future.

Our reserves aren't great at all but they're capable of coming in for games now and then and contributing, Hourihane showed that in the run in last season.

Leeds won tonight without 2-3 key regulars.

Don't see the sense in just constantly playing the 11 for every minute and then wondering why they're all knackered by March as we always saw in the MON era.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: WilliamStanding on October 23, 2020, 11:43:36 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on October 23, 2020, 11:36:25 PM
Quote from: Risso on October 23, 2020, 11:21:58 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on October 23, 2020, 10:44:31 PM
A very poor night for Dean Smith, one like for like sub when it was pretty obvious that we were in serious trouble tactically.


We have no strength in depth though.  There's literally no other sub that was worth making.  Other than for injuries and suspensions, he'll be swapping Trez and Traore for the foreseeable future.

Our reserves aren't great at all but they're capable of coming in for games now and then and contributing, Hourihane showed that in the run in last season.

Leeds won tonight without 2-3 key regulars.

Don't see the sense in just constantly playing the 11 for every minute and then wondering why they're all knackered by March as we always saw in the MON era.

April is the new new March.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on October 23, 2020, 11:54:04 PM
Quote from: Risso on October 23, 2020, 11:21:58 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on October 23, 2020, 10:44:31 PM
A very poor night for Dean Smith, one like for like sub when it was pretty obvious that we were in serious trouble tactically.


We have no strength in depth though.  There's literally no other sub that was worth making.  Other than for injuries and suspensions, he'll be swapping Trez and Traore for the foreseeable future.

I don't care if Lansbury was our only option on the bench tonight. Any number of our players could and should have been hooked tonight. They simply could not have been any worse. Hourihanes last game for us he scored and got an assist, and I'm not saying he's a world beater by any means.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: wince on October 23, 2020, 11:54:30 PM
Come on lads and lasses, tonight was just a bad day at the office.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 24, 2020, 08:11:30 AM
It was a really bad night at the office. The key thing I want is for Dean and the coaching staff to show a bit more when we’re facing adversity. We really lack when it comes to tactical changes to respond to a team’s dominance. That hopefully will be thought about and addressed moving forward.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on October 24, 2020, 08:44:59 AM
Thought his post game analysis was spot on about us being wide open. Post game, Smith generally sums up the game well. But if we are wide open it's his job to correct it during the game with tactical changes.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 24, 2020, 08:45:56 AM
Quote from: brontebilly on October 24, 2020, 08:44:59 AM
Thought his post game analysis was spot on about us being wide open. Post game, Smith generally sums up the game well. But if we are wide open it's his job to correct it during the game with tactical changes.

Yes confirming after the game and doing nothing during the game isn’t a great help!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AV82EC on October 24, 2020, 09:01:08 AM
Quote from: brontebilly on October 24, 2020, 08:44:59 AM
Thought his post game analysis was spot on about us being wide open. Post game, Smith generally sums up the game well. But if we are wide open it's his job to correct it during the game with tactical changes.

Or at least have a word with his players to sort it out. Davis for Trez was the sub for me and try at least to change the focus of our attacks.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on October 24, 2020, 09:42:16 AM
Quote from: brontebilly on October 24, 2020, 08:44:59 AM
Thought his post game analysis was spot on about us being wide open. Post game, Smith generally sums up the game well. But if we are wide open it's his job to correct it during the game with tactical changes.
If you don't know what's wrong it's understandable if you do nothing about it but if you know what's wrong  and don't fix it it's incompetence.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tony scott on October 24, 2020, 09:46:58 AM
What are our subs for ?direct replacements or Players who could play a different system when the situation called for it, we got hammered down the flanks from the off tonight with no visable attempt  to prevent it. Have we got some unsubable players?  Deans got a lot of credit but tonight was like Rooks Drift.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on October 24, 2020, 09:57:15 AM
Quote from: Risso on October 23, 2020, 11:21:58 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on October 23, 2020, 10:44:31 PM
A very poor night for Dean Smith, one like for like sub when it was pretty obvious that we were in serious trouble tactically.


We have no strength in depth though.  There's literally no other sub that was worth making.  Other than for injuries and suspensions, he'll be swapping Trez and Traore for the foreseeable future.

Bit concerning that we’ve spent over £200m in two windows to have that bench.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on October 24, 2020, 11:41:31 AM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on October 24, 2020, 09:57:15 AM
Quote from: Risso on October 23, 2020, 11:21:58 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on October 23, 2020, 10:44:31 PM
A very poor night for Dean Smith, one like for like sub when it was pretty obvious that we were in serious trouble tactically.


We have no strength in depth though.  There's literally no other sub that was worth making.  Other than for injuries and suspensions, he'll be swapping Trez and Traore for the foreseeable future.

Bit concerning that we’ve spent over £200m in two windows to have that bench.

Squad needed a massive overhaul upon promotion. We had to buy lots of players and spend cumulatively a lot of money. Let's not question everything on one bad result. The boys have done us proud this season. We approached the game tactically wrong and will learn from it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on October 24, 2020, 12:05:36 PM
Yes but when you’re two down you roll the dice on the subs bench.  When you looked at there weren’t many great options.  Maybe Conor for a bit more energy. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OzVilla on October 24, 2020, 12:10:33 PM
Thing is we are light up top off the bench. If we need to chase a game our options are poor. If we need to shore up a game our options are pretty good.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on October 24, 2020, 12:15:46 PM
Quote from: OzVilla on October 24, 2020, 12:10:33 PM
Thing is we are light up top off the bench. If we need to chase a game our options are poor. If we need to shore up a game our options are pretty good.
agree, the question is how many times do you watch your full backs get overrun and how many chances do you let the opposition have before deciding to do something about it?
This was pre lockdown performance and game management.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Monty on October 24, 2020, 12:52:30 PM
Quote from: OzVilla on October 24, 2020, 12:10:33 PM
Thing is we are light up top off the bench. If we need to chase a game our options are poor. If we need to shore up a game our options are pretty good.

Sure, but the guy's built a 4-from-5 first XI in the premier league in two years, with a spectacular turnaround in the middle. You're right that it's a weakness, but sometimes you have to prioritise certain strengths over others.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on October 24, 2020, 01:18:17 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on October 24, 2020, 12:15:46 PM
Quote from: OzVilla on October 24, 2020, 12:10:33 PM
Thing is we are light up top off the bench. If we need to chase a game our options are poor. If we need to shore up a game our options are pretty good.
agree, the question is how many times do you watch your full backs get overrun and how many chances do you let the opposition have before deciding to do something about it?
This was pre lockdown performance and game management.

Matt Cash must have been wondering the same. Smith standing yards away from him all second half and his change to correct the damage on the right side was to swap Trez for Traore. The mind boggles with him at times.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on October 24, 2020, 01:44:57 PM
When it works it's great but we only seem to have/know one way of playing. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on October 24, 2020, 02:37:45 PM
This is the thing with smith that will keep people disagreeing. He has one way of setting the team up and he’s now got the right players for that approach hence our excellent last 4 games. But he won’t or can’t vary tactics in game or change his approach based on the opposition and that means canny managers like Bielsa will make mugs of us.

He’s either single minded or inflexible depending on your take. He’s certainly not the only manager to have one approach.

The funny thing is I thought he had added pragmatism to his skills in the run in. We were winning games a different way. Maybe he has and last night just ‘one of those horrible ones’.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on October 24, 2020, 03:35:20 PM
I would’ve thought that was part of the reason Shakespeare was bought in.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on October 24, 2020, 03:50:05 PM
We altered our tactics at Leicester on 20 minutes and were the better side for the remainder of the game.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Monty on October 24, 2020, 04:26:41 PM
Quote from: Ads on October 24, 2020, 03:50:05 PM
We altered our tactics at Leicester on 20 minutes and were the better side for the remainder of the game.

Exactly.

Who was it who said that everything in football is complicated by the presence of the opposition? You can have a great plan, just sometimes the other guys have a better one. Or you both have a decent plan but one team manages to execute it better on the day. Or both. Or neither.

Sure Smith didn't have a good day yesterday, but that happens - Klopp had a pretty bad one against him not long ago, and as with the Merseyside derby we'll find out a lot about this Villa team by how they react against Southampton.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: themossman on October 24, 2020, 04:35:44 PM
It might be hair splitting but I’d say the changes Vs Leicester were adjustments to his way of playing not a real change in approach.

I don’t disagree Monty. Sometimes it’s just about the opposition’s strengths rather than anything you did wrong. Maybe the bench is just not good enough like Risso said. But you must admit the lack of adjustment during the game last night when the outcome looked predictable was notable, and consistent with smith’s main perceived weakness.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Monty on October 24, 2020, 04:49:29 PM
Quote from: themossman on October 24, 2020, 04:35:44 PM
It might be hair splitting but I’d say the changes Vs Leicester were adjustments to his way of playing not a real change in approach.

I don’t disagree Monty. Sometimes it’s just about the opposition’s strengths rather than anything you did wrong. Maybe the bench is just not good enough like Risso said. But you must admit the lack of adjustment during the game last night when the outcome looked predictable was notable, and consistent with smith’s main perceived weakness.

It was, for sure, but so was the high line conceding too many chances consistent with Klopp's, or Bielsa's failure to answer Nuno's changes on Monday, or Pep's team banging their heads against a brick wall today. Managers can only have the strengths and weaknesses that they do; the reason my opinion has changed on Smith is that his strengths appear much stronger this season than we've seen before, and that's with winning 10 in a row and a cup final thrown in.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on October 24, 2020, 05:15:05 PM
Every team with the exception of Everton have had bad results this season. Last night was ours. Doesn’t make our side bad or Dean Smith inept after starting 4 straight wins. It happens, he was out coached, our team was outplayed. What happens next week is most important and has Leeds found a weakness that will be exploited or will we adjust and beat Southampton?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: gpbarr on October 25, 2020, 07:45:56 AM
This.

Leeds is now in the past, just a bad day all around. Picking it apart isn’t that helpful when the reality is that everyone was poor.

If this Villa team is different, and what we think they are, then they will show that next week.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: RamboandBruno on October 25, 2020, 08:17:02 AM
Smith changed his tactics throughout last season, from his favoured 433, to 541 or 352, to try and combat our seeming slide towards relegation. He found a more defensive, pragmatic formula that worked post lockdown, where we relied more on set pieces for a lot of our goals. This season he’s turned McGinn into a more deep lying midfielder and asked Trez and Grealish to support overlapping full backs.
The idea Smith sticks to one way of playing is just not accurate.
On Friday we could debate he should of done this or that, to change the shape here or there. He did hook Trez a lot earlier than normal, but honestly I’m not sure anyone on the bench for that game would of made a fat lot of difference. The obvious choice would be hourihane for Barklay, but I just don’t see how that kind of speedy physical game, was a game for Connor.
Southampton play a similar way to Leeds so it will be interesting to see whether our game plan is flawed against this style of play or whether Friday was a one off.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mellin on October 25, 2020, 08:44:05 AM
This is by no means a criticism of Smith who I rate highly, but Leeds notoriously overload the fullbacks and we did very little to protect against that. I know it's hard to change a winning team, but felt 3-5-2 was the way to go. If not from the start then certainly as the game wore on and it became clear they had Targett and Cash exposed. Engels in for Trez and Grealish off Watkins. Would've been a very brave call though and obviously may not have worked.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on October 25, 2020, 09:35:54 AM
Dean with really honest with his appraisal and with Shakespeare to assist with the continual improvement, I think he will learn from it and we will be fine this season.  Frustrating and brilliant in equal measure, but that's the habit of an emerging side, until we tip in to good and then make fewer bugger ups.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on October 25, 2020, 02:45:37 PM
Quote from: Mellin on October 25, 2020, 08:44:05 AM
This is by no means a criticism of Smith who I rate highly, but Leeds notoriously overload the fullbacks and we did very little to protect against that. I know it's hard to change a winning team, but felt 3-5-2 was the way to go. If not from the start then certainly as the game wore on and it became clear they had Targett and Cash exposed. Engels in for Trez and Grealish off Watkins. Would've been a very brave call though and obviously may not have worked.
My thoughts as well.
Traore and Cash as wingbacks would be very powerful. My only concern is whether our third CB would be good enough: if we'd bought Tuanzebe or another mobile CB in the summer, I'd be promoting 3-5-2 rather harder than now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on October 25, 2020, 03:19:14 PM
Quote from: Mister E on October 25, 2020, 02:45:37 PM
Quote from: Mellin on October 25, 2020, 08:44:05 AM
This is by no means a criticism of Smith who I rate highly, but Leeds notoriously overload the fullbacks and we did very little to protect against that. I know it's hard to change a winning team, but felt 3-5-2 was the way to go. If not from the start then certainly as the game wore on and it became clear they had Targett and Cash exposed. Engels in for Trez and Grealish off Watkins. Would've been a very brave call though and obviously may not have worked.
My thoughts as well.
Traore and Cash as wingbacks would be very powerful. My only concern is whether our third CB would be good enough: if we'd bought Tuanzebe or another mobile CB in the summer, I'd be promoting 3-5-2 rather harder than now.

Impossible to say that Traore would be any use as a wing back I reckon, doesn't look like he's got much tackling in him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Bobby Boy on October 25, 2020, 03:30:37 PM
Hope Dean is watching Southampton today. Their intensity is not a million miles away from Leeds'. Can't allow our midfield to be so open otherwise we'll be asking for trouble.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT on October 25, 2020, 03:33:15 PM
Quote from: Bobby Boy on October 25, 2020, 03:30:37 PM
Hope Dean is watching Southampton today. Their intensity is not a million miles away from Leeds'. Can't allow our midfield to be so open otherwise we'll be asking for trouble.

They look really decent don’t they?! Plus they beat us easily twice last season too.

Hopefully we’re up to the challenge on both sides of the touchline.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on October 25, 2020, 03:38:14 PM
Quote from: Risso on October 25, 2020, 03:19:14 PM
Quote from: Mister E on October 25, 2020, 02:45:37 PM
Quote from: Mellin on October 25, 2020, 08:44:05 AM
This is by no means a criticism of Smith who I rate highly, but Leeds notoriously overload the fullbacks and we did very little to protect against that. I know it's hard to change a winning team, but felt 3-5-2 was the way to go. If not from the start then certainly as the game wore on and it became clear they had Targett and Cash exposed. Engels in for Trez and Grealish off Watkins. Would've been a very brave call though and obviously may not have worked.
My thoughts as well.
Traore and Cash as wingbacks would be very powerful. My only concern is whether our third CB would be good enough: if we'd bought Tuanzebe or another mobile CB in the summer, I'd be promoting 3-5-2 rather harder than now.

Impossible to say that Traore would be any use as a wing back I reckon, doesn't look like he's got much tackling in him.

Plus he plays down the right so that’s clearly a preference for him coming in from that side. Sticking him on the left and having defensive duties isn’t something I am sure I want to see. And frankly Targett has been fine this season and if we are upgrading him get a proper FB/WB that has been playing that role very well across his career. Square pegs round holes isn’t the way to go.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on October 25, 2020, 04:17:39 PM
Quote from: Risso on October 25, 2020, 03:19:14 PM
Quote from: Mister E on October 25, 2020, 02:45:37 PM
Quote from: Mellin on October 25, 2020, 08:44:05 AM
This is by no means a criticism of Smith who I rate highly, but Leeds notoriously overload the fullbacks and we did very little to protect against that. I know it's hard to change a winning team, but felt 3-5-2 was the way to go. If not from the start then certainly as the game wore on and it became clear they had Targett and Cash exposed. Engels in for Trez and Grealish off Watkins. Would've been a very brave call though and obviously may not have worked.
My thoughts as well.
Traore and Cash as wingbacks would be very powerful. My only concern is whether our third CB would be good enough: if we'd bought Tuanzebe or another mobile CB in the summer, I'd be promoting 3-5-2 rather harder than now.
Impossible to say that Traore would be any use as a wing back I reckon, doesn't look like he's got much tackling in him.
I'm sure I read somewhere that played there for his last club.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on October 25, 2020, 05:03:17 PM
Quote from: CT on October 25, 2020, 03:33:15 PM
Quote from: Bobby Boy on October 25, 2020, 03:30:37 PM
Hope Dean is watching Southampton today. Their intensity is not a million miles away from Leeds'. Can't allow our midfield to be so open otherwise we'll be asking for trouble.

They look really decent don’t they?! Plus they beat us easily twice last season too.

Hopefully we’re up to the challenge on both sides of the touchline.
I think the secret is do not concede first.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on October 25, 2020, 05:15:40 PM
Why are we shitting it because a team has "looked decent" in one match? We've looked world-beaters at times this season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on October 25, 2020, 05:19:59 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on October 25, 2020, 05:03:17 PM
Quote from: CT on October 25, 2020, 03:33:15 PM
Quote from: Bobby Boy on October 25, 2020, 03:30:37 PM
Hope Dean is watching Southampton today. Their intensity is not a million miles away from Leeds'. Can't allow our midfield to be so open otherwise we'll be asking for trouble.

They look really decent don’t they?! Plus they beat us easily twice last season too.

Hopefully we’re up to the challenge on both sides of the touchline.
I think the secret is do not concede first.
I’ve always hated it when we play Southampton. All I even think of is Matt Le Tissier scoring screamers followed by Shane Long scoring his only goal a season against us.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT on October 25, 2020, 05:38:18 PM
I suppose I’d better add that I’m not “shitting it” regarding playing them at all.

I’m just noting they’re in good form and have spanked us twice in the last ten months. If we rebound from the Leeds game in the right way, we’ll be more than a match for them.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on October 25, 2020, 07:31:55 PM
Southampton are a very well drilled team Organised team that don’t mind putting their foot in.
Iif they get ahead they are good at killing the game.


The away game last season was one of the worst performances I have seen Villa put in, we were shocking.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Louzie0 on October 25, 2020, 07:51:54 PM
We’ve probably improved since then, CL.
Going by the last 9 matches.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on October 26, 2020, 07:33:06 AM
apart from the media 6 there is a lot of teams this season who are all capable of some decent football and results
Leicester
Everton
Southampton
Leeds
Crystal Palace
Brighton
Wolves
and I’m adding Villa into that mix

That’s 14 teams out if 20 all capable of upsetting the odds and playing winning football
I think the Prem is as strong as it’s ever been in terms of quality in depth

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on October 26, 2020, 08:40:45 AM
Quote from: john e on October 26, 2020, 07:33:06 AM
apart from the media 6 there is a lot of teams this season who are all capable of some decent football and results
Leicester
Everton
Southampton
Leeds
Crystal Palace
Brighton
Wolves
and I’m adding Villa into that mix

That’s 14 teams out if 20 all capable of upsetting the odds and playing winning football
I think the Prem is as strong as it’s ever been in terms of quality in depth



Agreed John.  And that's why the likes of Liverpool and Man U are shitting theselves that one of the oiks might beat them to the Champions League places and they really can't be having that, can they?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on October 26, 2020, 08:49:13 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on October 25, 2020, 05:15:40 PM
Why are we shitting it because a team has "looked decent" in one match? We've looked world-beaters at times this season.
Indeed. WBA were absolutely nailed on for Champions' League after 45 minutes against Chelsea. Everton had won about 7/8 matches so they were there to be had.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on October 26, 2020, 09:30:56 AM
Quote from: Louzie0 on October 25, 2020, 07:51:54 PM
We’ve probably improved since then, CL.
Going by the last 9 matches.
You are right louzie0, still carrying the scars though.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on October 26, 2020, 10:05:36 AM
For whatever reason, we seemed to set up our midfield against Leeds something like the below..
------------------Luiz
Trez, McGinn, Barkley, Grealish

McGinn sat a lot deeper next to Luiz against Liverpool, perhaps a bit further forward against Leicester but left of Luiz. That wasn't the case on Friday, where we set up similar to what we did against Fulham. It's a formation (2 x number eights) I don't want to see us playing for a while, Luiz is not superman and our full backs need more cover than what Grealish and Trez/Traore/AEG can provide. We need to be a lot more compact tactically, two sitting midfielders should always try and be goal side of the ball. Traore isn't ready for a start yet (and looks completely unsuited to the role he has been bought for tbh) so I wouldn't mind something like the following for Southampton. A lot more narrow but also support for the full backs to get forward and a change of role for Grealish. 


--------Luiz, Nakamba
McGinn, Grealish, Hourihane

We have options then to drop McGinn back one if required, bring in Barkley or Trez/Traore out wide. Another tactical change I'd like to see Smith considering if we are chasing a goal is a front three of Traore/Davis/Watkins. Davis can make the ball stick and Watkins is more than capable of playing wide left but again to keep two midfielders goal side of the ball.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on October 26, 2020, 10:19:04 AM
Against L'pool we seemed to play a 4411 formation with McGinn left of Luiz as dms and Barkley just behind Ollie with no defensive or tracking back duties, just attacking responsibilities. This seemed to suit him better.
Against Leeds particularly after Traore came on we seemed to revert to a 433 with Mcginn on the right of the midfield 3 and Barkley on the left (obviously required to track back and defend).
Within a minute or so we had conceded a second goal courtesy of a misplaced pass by Barclay and an absence of making up from his error (tracking back).
If we're going to play Barclay it needs to be as an attacking force only because imo I don't think he's got the discipline to be any other kind of midfielder. In our own half he could be the liability we can ill afford.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OCD on October 26, 2020, 11:40:32 AM
I do think having Grealish on the left limits his involvement. I would like to see McGinn tuck in alongside Luiz and give Jack more of a free role in front of them. Jack with a free role, with good protection behind him could be such a problem for opponents to have to deal with. I would work with the same personnel though and have Barkley moved to the left and Trez on the right. Barkley and Jack could even swap positions multiple times during a game and make even more problems for opponents.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on October 26, 2020, 12:59:17 PM
Quote from: Abbeyfealeavfc on October 26, 2020, 10:19:04 AM
Against L'pool we seemed to play a 4411 formation with McGinn left of Luiz as dms and Barkley just behind Ollie with no defensive or tracking back duties, just attacking responsibilities. This seemed to suit him better.
Against Leeds particularly after Traore came on we seemed to revert to a 433 with Mcginn on the right of the midfield 3 and Barkley on the left (obviously required to track back and defend).
Within a minute or so we had conceded a second goal courtesy of a misplaced pass by Barclay and an absence of making up from his error (tracking back).
If we're going to play Barclay it needs to be as an attacking force only because imo I don't think he's got the discipline to be any other kind of midfielder. In our own half he could be the liability we can ill afford.

Barkley definitely played 10 against Liverpool alright. I don't think Barkley, or let's be honest us as a team, are good enough to allow him to have an armchair ride without the ball. He simply has to up his workrate no matter what position he gets selected in. If there is to be one midfielder we give that licence to, it has to be Grealish, I don't think we will get away with two. What already worries me about Traore is that it's abundantly clear he won't be offering much without the ball either on the right flank. That lack of balance that Leeds ruthlessly exposed is very vulnerable to counter attacking.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on October 26, 2020, 01:25:18 PM
Almost regardless of tactics, what the last few games have proved is you have to have everbody fit and focussed.
The performance of Mings and Berkley were the key problems against Leeds.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on October 26, 2020, 01:35:02 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on October 26, 2020, 01:25:18 PM
Almost regardless of tactics, what the last few games have proved is you have to have everbody fit and focussed.
The performance of Mings and Berkley were the key problems against Leeds.

Yes, Barkley was very ineffective but Mings had an absolute shocker.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: fbriai on October 26, 2020, 02:18:37 PM
Quote from: brontebilly on October 26, 2020, 10:05:36 AM
For whatever reason, we seemed to set up our midfield against Leeds something like the below..
------------------Luiz
Trez, McGinn, Barkley, Grealish

McGinn sat a lot deeper next to Luiz against Liverpool, perhaps a bit further forward against Leicester but left of Luiz. That wasn't the case on Friday, where we set up similar to what we did against Fulham. It's a formation (2 x number eights) I don't want to see us playing for a while, Luiz is not superman and our full backs need more cover than what Grealish and Trez/Traore/AEG can provide. We need to be a lot more compact tactically, two sitting midfielders should always try and be goal side of the ball. Traore isn't ready for a start yet (and looks completely unsuited to the role he has been bought for tbh) so I wouldn't mind something like the following for Southampton. A lot more narrow but also support for the full backs to get forward and a change of role for Grealish. 


--------Luiz, Nakamba
McGinn, Grealish, Hourihane

We have options then to drop McGinn back one if required, bring in Barkley or Trez/Traore out wide. Another tactical change I'd like to see Smith considering if we are chasing a goal is a front three of Traore/Davis/Watkins. Davis can make the ball stick and Watkins is more than capable of playing wide left but again to keep two midfielders goal side of the ball.

I'd be tempted to go narrower against Southampton, bringing in Hourihane for Trez and setting up like this:

Martinez
Cash Konsa Mings Targett
McGinn Luiz Hourhane
Barkley Grealish
Watkins

Whereas in the past, the loss of width wood have been a big problem, now, with that front 3, I think it's less of an issue, as they are more than capable of playing in tight spaces.

Looks like you are right about Traore too. Still early days, but he might be more of a back-up for Watkins on what we've seen so far. Don't think we'll get a shift out of him in the way we do Trez.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on October 30, 2020, 01:36:09 PM
Interesting in the press conference today.

We left the game plan after the first goal went in. Hence being ripped a new one.

In my view, of that starts happening, you make a substitution, if for no other reason than to waste some time, but at least to get a new message out there or to hook the worst offender.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on October 30, 2020, 01:52:18 PM
Quote from: Drummond on October 30, 2020, 01:36:09 PM
Interesting in the press conference today.

We left the game plan after the first goal went in. Hence being ripped a new one.

In my view, of that starts happening, you make a substitution, if for no other reason than to waste some time, but at least to get a new message out there or to hook the worst offender.

He made a sub alright, Traore for Trez, which made the situation even worse on our right flank. Smith seems to try and abdicate his responsibilities as head coach to effect in game changes.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on October 30, 2020, 02:20:44 PM
Putting a lot (too much?) faith in his favourite XI.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on October 30, 2020, 03:15:10 PM
We are still very much a work in progress. Our bench isn’t great, but I do agree we could use players differently and mix it up sometimes
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ozzjim on October 30, 2020, 03:19:43 PM
Anyone would think we were bottom reading this thread.

Mings had a poor 45 minutes, Barkley didn't track as well as he could, Jack had a very indifferent night and Leeds got everything spot on, literally everything. I doubt they will play that well, with that intensity again this season, much like I doubt we will the way we did against Liverpool.

McGinn and Luiz deeper with Barkley pushed up suits us better, and actually gets McGinn more in the game too. Traore will be very useful against certain teams too, but we will have to pick and chose the games. Our biggest issue is probably our lack of plan B, although we are miles from where we were 12 months ago, so need to give it time.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on October 30, 2020, 05:34:16 PM
Quote from: eamonn on October 30, 2020, 02:20:44 PM
Putting a lot (too much?) faith in his favourite XI.

That, and a habit of even when plan a isn't working, sticks with plan a anyway. Smith has always been very poor with in game changes, like for like subs or no subs at all are a really bugbear of mine, but what galls me is his ability post game to succinctly dissect where things went wrong without a hint of taking any responsibility for not correcting matters in game.

Players deviated from game plan, well take a couple of them off then Dean and remind them who is in charge! We got totally stretched between the lines and left space for them to attack, well then Dean do something about it tactically, not a nonsensical Traore for Trez sub that made things even worse.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on October 30, 2020, 05:40:33 PM
I hope he plays the same team line up

Although I'm not bothered whether he plays Trez or Traore but that's not tactical I just wouldn't mind seeing what Traore has got

we have a quality first 11 but that's it once you start messing it weakens the team
We haven't got the squad yet to start changing things to much if at all
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OCD on October 30, 2020, 05:53:43 PM
Quote from: brontebilly on October 30, 2020, 05:34:16 PM
Quote from: eamonn on October 30, 2020, 02:20:44 PM
Putting a lot (too much?) faith in his favourite XI.
Players deviated from game plan, well take a couple of them off then Dean and remind them who is in charge! We got totally stretched between the lines and left space for them to attack, well then Dean do something about it tactically, not a nonsensical Traore for Trez sub that made things even worse.

He may just not feel like he's got the options on the bench to do that yet. It's back to the earlier post about us being a work-in-progress and still being relatively early into that process.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on October 30, 2020, 06:01:21 PM
Let's be honest, we still need another four or five players of decent quality to be competitive don't we?  Heaton and Wes to come back in, Traore in for Trezeguet but that's about it until the kids grow up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on October 30, 2020, 06:40:36 PM
Quote from: ozzjim on October 30, 2020, 03:19:43 PM
Anyone would think we were bottom reading this thread.


What it reveals is as supporters of this club just how fragile our own confidence is that one defeat into the season the dark clouds have re-emerged. We are punching above our weight right now. We will likely sink back a little but I believe we have shown enough across the past 8 games that we won’t be sucked into the relegation fight. We are still a few very solid players away from competing consistently in the top 8. If we finish 10th or 11th this season most of us at the start would have taken that and considered it a success.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on October 30, 2020, 08:21:53 PM
Don't get me wrong, I'm feeling positive about Smith and what's he's done to date,  was just a reflection on what he said.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT on October 30, 2020, 08:39:24 PM
I read one guy on twitter who put the four game winning run down to the appointment of Craig Shakespeare.

The same guy hammered Dean Smith for the Leeds defeat!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on October 30, 2020, 09:01:35 PM
Man U got battered off the park by Spurs, but to be fair to them, they have looked much beeter since then.  Smith needs to show he can put things right in a similar fashion.  I'm not that concerned, because if we'd scored with a couple of good early chances, we might still have won, even though Leeds overall were much the better team on the night.  Bamford will never play that well ever again.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on October 31, 2020, 10:04:41 AM
Bamford, a Noel Whelan for the selfie(sh) generation.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on October 31, 2020, 11:44:28 AM
Quote from: Risso on October 30, 2020, 09:01:35 PM
Man U got battered off the park by Spurs, but to be fair to them, they have looked much beeter since then.  Smith needs to show he can put things right in a similar fashion.  I'm not that concerned, because if we'd scored with a couple of good early chances, we might still have won, even though Leeds overall were much the better team on the night.  Bamford will never play that well ever again.
Well, OGS does have rather more resources at his disposal than our Dean.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on October 31, 2020, 11:45:44 AM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on October 30, 2020, 06:40:36 PM
Quote from: ozzjim on October 30, 2020, 03:19:43 PM
Anyone would think we were bottom reading this thread.


What it reveals is as supporters of this club just how fragile our own confidence is that one defeat into the season the dark clouds have re-emerged. We are punching above our weight right now. We will likely sink back a little but I believe we have shown enough across the past 8 games that we won’t be sucked into the relegation fight. We are still a few very solid players away from competing consistently in the top 8. If we finish 10th or 11th this season most of us at the start would have taken that and considered it a success.

I think we've been worn down through years of Villa fucking it up all the time

Typical example is we were thrashing Liverpool 5-1 then they scored to make it 5-2 and I started pissing my pants
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on October 31, 2020, 01:15:55 PM
Quote from: john e on October 31, 2020, 11:45:44 AM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on October 30, 2020, 06:40:36 PM
Quote from: ozzjim on October 30, 2020, 03:19:43 PM
Anyone would think we were bottom reading this thread.


What it reveals is as supporters of this club just how fragile our own confidence is that one defeat into the season the dark clouds have re-emerged. We are punching above our weight right now. We will likely sink back a little but I believe we have shown enough across the past 8 games that we won’t be sucked into the relegation fight. We are still a few very solid players away from competing consistently in the top 8. If we finish 10th or 11th this season most of us at the start would have taken that and considered it a success.

I think we've been worn down through years of Villa fucking it up all the time

Typical example is we were thrashing Liverpool 5-1 then they scored to make it 5-2 and I started pissing my pants

Same at 2-1 when it felt inevitable that they’d score the next 3, not us. We’ve done it ourselves, but it’s a process. That night was sensational but an anomaly. We have to put together a series of solid results. They don’t have to be Liverpool level displays. In fact wins and draws much like we showed to end last season would see us comfortably into mid table this season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on November 01, 2020, 01:20:22 PM
Absolutely exposed and exploited the last two games.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on November 01, 2020, 01:29:41 PM
Interesting reading last few pages.

We do have a shaky psyche as a club. One bad defeat and we seem to go into a tailspin for a couple of months whereas other clubs can quickly recover and at least get another unbeaten run going. Been that way since 2010 and no response to Leeds defeat today so has feeling of another bad run starting.

Changes inevitable next week now, think AEM coming on is preparation for him to start at Arsenal so interested what other stuff DS will do. I'd give Davis some minutes and push Watkins out wide aswell.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT on November 01, 2020, 01:36:23 PM
Where’s Craig Shakespeare in all of this? Everyone lording him when the going was good.

Why isn’t he out front with all his knowledge?? Stevie Wonder could see after five minutes that this was going exactly the same way as the Leeds game, but nothing gets changed, again.

Maybe ALL of them can’t see.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on November 01, 2020, 01:49:08 PM
Deciding not to mark a giant with a dwarf would be a good start.
Pub football teams work this stuff out but our management team unable to.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on November 01, 2020, 01:49:54 PM
6 mins added time
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on November 01, 2020, 01:50:08 PM
Wrong thread
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: DB on November 01, 2020, 01:58:38 PM
Is this a blip to what we did in the first 4 games or is this how we really are under Smith? I think the squad is much better than last season, but worrying that we have been easily beaten and out coached.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 01, 2020, 01:59:52 PM
Dean has to learn how to react earlier when things are going against us. He’s far too passive.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on November 01, 2020, 02:14:28 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on November 01, 2020, 01:59:52 PM
Dean has to learn how to react earlier when things are going against us. He’s far too passive.

In fairness early Traore sub did for any half time changes imo. Muscle injuries already a problem this season so say we'd thrown two more subs on at the hour and you run the risk of finishing with 10 men. Luiz was really struggling at the end.

I know lots of people dislike it but I'd have continued with 5 subs up to January.

Anyway what last two games has shown is DS is reluctant to put Davis on once we go more than a goal down due to his lack of actual goal threat so surely we've got to get another striker in January who can at least change a losing game a bit from the bench.

Thought it would happen once we let Samatta go but it didn't.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT Villan on November 01, 2020, 02:52:34 PM
Out-thought tactically in the first half. That's 2 games running Smith has struggled. At least he finally got it right today, albeit too late.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brend'Watkins on November 01, 2020, 02:52:43 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on November 01, 2020, 01:49:08 PM
Deciding not to mark a giant with a dwarf would be a good start.
Pub football teams work this stuff out but our management team unable to.

Yep. Basic shit like that should never be an issue for a top league side. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on November 01, 2020, 02:58:59 PM
Quote from: DB on November 01, 2020, 01:58:38 PM
Is this a blip to what we did in the first 4 games or is this how we really are under Smith? I think the squad is much better than last season, but worrying that we have been easily beaten and out coached.

Mid table teams finishing on 45-50 points tend to drop off at periods in the season. Last season Sheffield finished 9th but they ended the season with 3 wins in 10 and lost their last run so bad runs are part and parcel for mid table finishes.

The trick we need to avoid is going on a very bad run e.g. the one we went on from Feb onwards that got DS very close to the sack.

Arsenal will be tough but not impossible game to win, a point there will be good 90 minutes work. After the next break it's Brighton, West Ham, Newcastle, Burnley, West Brom so would be hugely disappointing not to win a game or two in that run. 

We need to aswell as the fixture list then gets hideous from Boxing day.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on November 01, 2020, 03:00:36 PM
Quote from: Brend'Watkins on November 01, 2020, 02:52:43 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on November 01, 2020, 01:49:08 PM
Deciding not to mark a giant with a dwarf would be a good start.
Pub football teams work this stuff out but our management team unable to.

Yep. Basic shit like that should never be an issue for a top league side.
Still fuming about it and still not sure how that happens.
Maybe we could spend a lot of money on coaches to focus on marking big players at set pieces.
Obviously we only had 8 days to prepare for this game.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on November 01, 2020, 03:13:13 PM
Just how we can go from sticking 7 past Liverpool to conceding 7 against Leeds and Southampton is beyond comprehension ......I want Smith to be successful but he really needs to smarten up his  act ......how you can "outcoach"  Klopp and then fail so miserably in the next two home games is difficult to interpret - the points currently  on the board are looking massive right now
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on November 01, 2020, 03:21:13 PM
Another car crash from the maestro. Absymal team shape, unforgivable after what Leeds did to us to set up the same way again. But Deano doubled down and we paid the price. His hero worshiping of Barkley for one has me seething.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 01, 2020, 03:23:20 PM
Quote from: brontebilly on November 01, 2020, 03:21:13 PM
Another car crash from the maestro. Absymal team shape, unforgivable after what Leeds did to us to set up the same way again. But Deano doubled down and we paid the price. His hero worshiping of Barkley for one has me seething.

I fear you’re getting a bit focussed on Barkley. He’s had a poor couple of games, but he’s also had an outstanding and a good game.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on November 01, 2020, 03:42:47 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on November 01, 2020, 03:13:13 PM
Just how we can go from sticking 7 past Liverpool to conceding 7 against Leeds and Southampton is beyond comprehension ......I want Smith to be successful but he really needs to smarten up his  act ......how you can "outcoach"  Klopp and then fail so miserably in the next two home games is difficult to interpret - the points currently  on the board are looking massive right now

Spurs went from scoring 6 at Man. United to drawing 3-3 with West Ham next game. Leicester went from scoring 5 at Man. City to losing to us and West Ham (3-0) at home.

It's that sort of season.

Looks like Everton have hit the wall same time as us. What's their excuse Clive (wink).
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on November 01, 2020, 03:46:54 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on November 01, 2020, 03:23:20 PM
Quote from: brontebilly on November 01, 2020, 03:21:13 PM
Another car crash from the maestro. Absymal team shape, unforgivable after what Leeds did to us to set up the same way again. But Deano doubled down and we paid the price. His hero worshiping of Barkley for one has me seething.

I fear you’re getting a bit focussed on Barkley. He’s had a poor couple of games, but he’s also had an outstanding and a good game.

Thought he was anonymous against Leicester until the goal to be honest. For whatever reason Smith changed his role from a 10 to an 8 after then and we are paying the price. But that doesn't excuse his abysmal lack of effort without the ball in the last two games. He is nowhere near good enough to be getting away with that and certainly not in his new position.

It isn't as if Smith has shifted him to left back, he should be making a lot better fist of his new position anyway.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on November 01, 2020, 03:53:16 PM
Dean must reflect on this and not take any comfort in the fact that we scored 3. Hasenhuttl basically ripped him in the first half and he had no answer. He is being worked out by good tactical managers and needs to step up.
And also Dean, McGinn must have a free role in midfield as he can't do what you are asking him to do consistently.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on November 01, 2020, 03:54:57 PM
Smith out!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on November 01, 2020, 03:59:21 PM
The mark of a good manager is in large part how they adjust to adversity. Ralph Hasenhüttl has done absolutely superbly since they got destroyed by Leicester. Many managers wouldn’t have survived that much less come back so much stronger. This is Dean Smith’s challenge now. Today could have been a lot worse and at 4-0 early in the second it could have been horrific. But we’ve been spared it being really embarrassing.

But I don’t want to be too harsh just yet. Like Smith, Ancelotti, a really top manger has also lost two straight. It will be interesting to see who gets back to winning first.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on November 01, 2020, 04:00:43 PM
Quote from: olaftab on November 01, 2020, 03:53:16 PM
Dean must reflect on this and not take any comfort in the fact that we scored 3. Hasenhuttl basically ripped him in the first half and he had no answer. He is being worked out by good tactical managers and needs to step up.
And also Dean, McGinn must have a free role in midfield as he can't do what you are asking him to do consistently.
agree with the McGinn role comment, the midfield is nort right, Sampton were walking through us in the first half, there were so many pockets of Space.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TonyD on November 01, 2020, 04:01:37 PM
He needs to be able to set the midfield in different formations and styles.  Unfortunately apart from CH there is nobody decent on the bench.  We need to sign at least two midfielders in January and one of them need to be a real hard ass.   We also need another a striker and left and right back.  Only 5 more signings......
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on November 01, 2020, 04:03:36 PM
Quote from: TonyD on November 01, 2020, 04:01:37 PM
He needs to be able to set the midfield in different formations and styles.  Unfortunately apart from CH there is nobody decent on the bench.  We need to sign at least two midfielders in January and one of them need to be a real hard ass.   We also need another a striker and left and right back.  Only 5 more signings......
you really think we can just keep signing players. We have to get more out of the ones we have first.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TonyD on November 01, 2020, 04:06:14 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on November 01, 2020, 04:03:36 PM
Quote from: TonyD on November 01, 2020, 04:01:37 PM
He needs to be able to set the midfield in different formations and styles.  Unfortunately apart from CH there is nobody decent on the bench.  We need to sign at least two midfielders in January and one of them need to be a real hard ass.   We also need another a striker and left and right back.  Only 5 more signings......
you really think we can just keep signing players. We have to get more out of the ones we have first.

In midfield definitely.  We ain’t going to get more out of Lansbury or Marvellous.   If Watkins gets a knock we are screwed.   
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on November 01, 2020, 04:25:46 PM
Quote from: TonyD on November 01, 2020, 04:01:37 PM
He needs to be able to set the midfield in different formations and styles.  Unfortunately apart from CH there is nobody decent on the bench.  We need to sign at least two midfielders in January and one of them need to be a real hard ass.   We also need another a striker and left and right back.  Only 5 more signings......

Hourihane got a goal and assist against Fulham and hadn't played a single minute since. That's despite McGinn and particularly Barkley being absolutely useless in the last two games.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on November 01, 2020, 04:27:37 PM
I'm not a huge fan of Nakamba but wasn't he highly rated in Belgium?

We've seen from likes of Luiz, Konsa and Trez decent improvement in last 6 months after struggling to settle in so not sure things would become a disaster if we gave Nakamba the odd start up to January to give us a more bit of a defensive nature at base of midfield.

Luiz has done really well for us in the DM role last few months but I do think at times it restricts him a bit. It would be like Ward-Prowse playing DM for Southampton but they have Romeu for that so that allows him to push on more and get on the ball in final third.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: passport1 on November 01, 2020, 04:44:12 PM
The disappointing  thing is that after eight days preparation we turn in a first half performance  like that. Southampton  looked dangerous  in possession  every time they moved forward in the first half we , on other hand , looked clueless.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Bobby Boy on November 01, 2020, 05:01:34 PM
Interesting from DS's post-game press conference that at half-time players thought that they were being done tactically by Southampton which DS disagreed with.

Maybe some indication that players are concerned by our tactics. Doesn't excuse their lack of tempo or general lethargy recently though even if they might have a point.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on November 01, 2020, 05:03:43 PM
Back to his deluded best in the post-match comments.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: passport1 on November 01, 2020, 05:03:49 PM
That if true is not good.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Jon Crofts on November 01, 2020, 05:08:11 PM
Does seem odd that he's specifically mentioned the players disagreeing with tactics, definitely not one you'd thought you'd want to be sharing publicly.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mellin on November 01, 2020, 05:10:46 PM
No, but I do like the honesty of talking openly about it. Not seen the interview, but was he taking ownership of it? If lessons continue to be learned then we'll keep moving in the right direction.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on November 01, 2020, 05:19:52 PM
Quote from: Risso on November 01, 2020, 05:03:43 PM
Back to his deluded best in the post-match comments.

Some of it made sense. Some of it was worrying. Don’t give away stupid free kicks against a team that’s good at free kicks isn’t unreasonable.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on November 01, 2020, 05:55:00 PM
Quote from: Bobby Boy on November 01, 2020, 05:01:34 PM
Interesting from DS's post-game press conference that at half-time players thought that they were being done tactically by Southampton which DS disagreed with.

Maybe some indication that players are concerned by our tactics. Doesn't excuse their lack of tempo or general lethargy recently though even if they might have a point.

Stevie Wonder could see we were being done tactically. the fact the manager didn't see the issue and it required the players to tell him is very troubling.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on November 02, 2020, 07:16:17 AM
agreed but if they recognized it, they should have had the  strength to change it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave17 on November 02, 2020, 07:43:47 AM
Smith has met all his goals or even exceeded them on paper

Promotion unexpectedly
Stayed up plus a cup final

Despite the chronically bad performances other than Liverpool he has 4 wins from 6. I guess the owners will persist until he falls behind schedule - so outside the top 10 or flirting with relegation.

He doesn’t seem to be learning and I have sympathy for the lack of options from the bench but Hourihane deserves a shot at getting his place back and nakamba was very good when he first came over. We’re a much better side but we still lean heavily on grealish. Mings has been poor to indifferent in patches. Engels deserves a shot also. Any injury to Targett, grealish, Watkins or Luis could cause us some bother 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on November 02, 2020, 08:12:18 AM
"Chronically bad performances other than Liverpool..."

You mean beating Sheffield United, declaring after an hour at Fulham and deservedly beating Leicester, who are tipped for top four? Those chronically bad performances?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Allan C on November 02, 2020, 08:12:21 AM
Quote from: brontebilly on November 01, 2020, 04:25:46 PM
Quote from: TonyD on November 01, 2020, 04:01:37 PM
He needs to be able to set the midfield in different formations and styles.  Unfortunately apart from CH there is nobody decent on the bench.  We need to sign at least two midfielders in January and one of them need to be a real hard ass.   We also need another a striker and left and right back.  Only 5 more signings......

Hourihane got a goal and assist against Fulham and hadn't played a single minute since. That's despite McGinn and particularly Barkley being absolutely useless in the last two games.
Why “particularly Barkley”  McGinn has been equally as bad if not worse. A few others too. Hourihane isn’t as good a player as either of them.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sid1964 on November 02, 2020, 08:28:59 AM
The law of football is "Every player who does not play is suddenly better than the guy on the pitch"
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: simboy on November 02, 2020, 08:41:49 AM
Quote from: Allan C on November 02, 2020, 08:12:21 AM
Quote from: brontebilly on November 01, 2020, 04:25:46 PM
Quote from: TonyD on November 01, 2020, 04:01:37 PM
He needs to be able to set the midfield in different formations and styles.  Unfortunately apart from CH there is nobody decent on the bench.  We need to sign at least two midfielders in January and one of them need to be a real hard ass.   We also need another a striker and left and right back.  Only 5 more signings......

Hourihane got a goal and assist against Fulham and hadn't played a single minute since. That's despite McGinn and particularly Barkley being absolutely useless in the last two games.
Why “particularly Barkley”  McGinn has been equally as bad if not worse. A few others too. Hourihane isn’t as good a player as either of them.


Because he has. Miscontrolled the ball terribly on a number of occasions. Yesterday his miscontrol led to the ings goal. His delivery of the dead ball was woeful. Hourihane for the last 20 of yesterday’s game and the Leeds debacle might have added something. Hourihane is the obvious replacement for RB, I think that’s why “particularly Barkley”.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on November 02, 2020, 08:45:12 AM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on November 01, 2020, 05:19:52 PM
Quote from: Risso on November 01, 2020, 05:03:43 PM
Back to his deluded best in the post-match comments.
Some of it made sense. Some of it was worrying. Don’t give away stupid free kicks against a team that’s good at free kicks isn’t unreasonable.
You mean, as we did away at Bournemouth last season? - the team that had scored the most from set pieces?
Hmmm, yes, we're learning and continuously improving ....
Same issue, same outcome.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on November 02, 2020, 09:05:00 AM
Quote from: Allan C on November 02, 2020, 08:12:21 AM
Quote from: brontebilly on November 01, 2020, 04:25:46 PM
Quote from: TonyD on November 01, 2020, 04:01:37 PM
He needs to be able to set the midfield in different formations and styles.  Unfortunately apart from CH there is nobody decent on the bench.  We need to sign at least two midfielders in January and one of them need to be a real hard ass.   We also need another a striker and left and right back.  Only 5 more signings......

Hourihane got a goal and assist against Fulham and hadn't played a single minute since. That's despite McGinn and particularly Barkley being absolutely useless in the last two games.
Why “particularly Barkley”  McGinn has been equally as bad if not worse. A few others too. Hourihane isn’t as good a player as either of them.

McGinn has been very poor alright but at least he runs and attempts to get back. Barkley seems to believe he can give away the ball in dangerous area and not bother his arse attempting to get back. It's cost us two goals in the last two games. Hourihane might not have the ability that Barkley has but he might be a better professional and give us better balance in midfield.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on November 02, 2020, 09:18:35 AM
Barkley was great against Liverpool, was OK against Leicester (but got extra marks for scoring the late winner), but has been dire against Leeds and Southampton.  We can't afford 1 good game in 4 from him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on November 02, 2020, 09:41:00 AM
Quote from: Risso on November 02, 2020, 09:18:35 AM
Barkley was great against Liverpool, was OK against Leicester (but got extra marks for scoring the late winner), but has been dire against Leeds and Southampton.  We can't afford 1 good game in 4 from him.

I think it's clear, like against Liverpool, that he can only play 10 for us with no defensive responsibilities. He's a complete liability otherwise, despite claims that he can play at 8. Personally I don't think he is good enough to be given an armchair position in our team, and I don't think the team are competent enough without the ball to carry him (and likes of Traore and Grealish). Hence why I was against bringing him in from the start as the danger was it would overload our midfield with similar players. That's how it's playing out unfortunately.

We can all accept bad games from players but the bare minimum is to give maximum effort without the ball. Barkley hasn't done that in the last two games and it's been tolerated by Smith which is as bad if not worse.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Monty on November 02, 2020, 10:10:58 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on November 02, 2020, 08:12:18 AM
"Chronically bad performances other than Liverpool..."

You mean beating Sheffield United, declaring after an hour at Fulham and deservedly beating Leicester, who are tipped for top four? Those chronically bad performances?

Not to mention that we were arguably the better side overall yesterday, managing to lose because three out of Southampton's four shots on target were inexplicably goals of the month.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on November 02, 2020, 11:23:25 AM
The header was definitely a tactical issue by playing zonal marking and not moving the personnel around to counter it. The question is whether or not the players have more freedom in the system to change things when there appears to be a mismatch.

It was stupid to give two free-kicks away in the 'D' with Ward-Prowse on the pitch.

Ings' finish was top drawer and is one of those goals that happens.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: in exile on November 02, 2020, 01:12:27 PM
Quote from: Bobby Boy on November 01, 2020, 05:01:34 PM
Interesting from DS's post-game press conference that at half-time players thought that they were being done tactically by Southampton which DS disagreed with.

Maybe some indication that players are concerned by our tactics. Doesn't excuse their lack of tempo or general lethargy recently though even if they might have a point.
There was a slight improvement in the second half, so who changed things, Smith or the players?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on November 02, 2020, 02:10:31 PM
This makes me a bit concerned.

I went in at half-time scratching my head. It didn't feel like a 3-0 game at that point. It was a second-ball affair in midfield, it was scrappy and there were no real chances.

"The assistant referee has given them an opportunity to put a really good ball in. Then we've allowed them to play through us. The players thought something more tactical was involved but there wasn't in my opinion.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on November 02, 2020, 02:11:53 PM
I’m a bit disheartened by the last two results but have no doubts we are a lot better than last year and really don’t think we will be scrapping around the relegation spots again
mid table will be an improvement and that’s where I think we will be

the question then will be  is Dean Smith the man to take us any further ie into the top 8/6 which will be a decision for the owners for another time because if we do finish mid table he will have improved year on year

my opinion on the defence is not a popular one on here
as I’ve mentioned a few times before so it’s not because of the two latest reverses and I have absolutely no problem with Mings, Konsa or Cash I think they have much ability and are good for the future of Aston Villa

However i still believe that Engels is the best centre half we have at the club and Guilbert the best right back

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on November 02, 2020, 02:30:51 PM
Quote from: Drummond on November 02, 2020, 11:23:25 AM
The header was definitely a tactical issue by playing zonal marking and not moving the personnel around to counter it. The question is whether or not the players have more freedom in the system to change things when there appears to be a mismatch.

It was stupid to give two free-kicks away in the 'D' with Ward-Prowse on the pitch.

Ings' finish was top drawer and is one of those goals that happens.

Ings finish was exceptional but like any goal conceded there were a number of mistakes that led to it. Barkley of course losing the ball under no pressure and making no effort to retrieve it, Mings or Luiz could or should have stopped the break by foul means if necessary and finally Cash showing the speed merchant Ings inside to have a free shot on goal.

It's not like we didn't have prior warning of Vestergaards ability in the air before his goal either. For me, aswell as the tactical ineptitude on the sideline, there is a complete lack of leadership on the pitch. Surely Mings after the disallowed goal should be taking it upon himself to mark Vestergaard from that point forward. The liberties the likes of Barkley are taking without the ball should be getting called out by senior players on the pitch too.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: oldhill_avfc on November 02, 2020, 03:00:03 PM
Quote from: john e on November 02, 2020, 02:11:53 PM
I’m a bit disheartened by the last two results but have no doubts we are a lot better than last year and really don’t think we will be scrapping around the relegation spots again
mid table will be an improvement and that’s where I think we will be

the question then will be  is Dean Smith the man to take us any further ie into the top 8/6 which will be a decision for the owners for another time because if we do finish mid table he will have improved year on year

my opinion on the defence is not a popular one on here
as I’ve mentioned a few times before so it’s not because of the two latest reverses and I have absolutely no problem with Mings, Konsa or Cash I think they have much ability and are good for the future of Aston Villa

However i still believe that Engels is the best centre half we have at the club and Guilbert the best right back

Engels is error prone and slow. 

Guilbert is error prone and gets out of position too easily.

Not the ideal attributes for defenders  ...

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on November 02, 2020, 03:02:08 PM
I can't say that there's much of a difference between Cash and Guilbert at their respective best and worst on the evidence so far.  Not sure it was worth the upgrade fee to be honest.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on November 02, 2020, 03:05:16 PM
I am becoming concerned with Mings.
Not sure where his head is.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on November 02, 2020, 03:41:49 PM
Quote from: oldhill_avfc on November 02, 2020, 03:00:03 PM
Quote from: john e on November 02, 2020, 02:11:53 PM
I’m a bit disheartened by the last two results but have no doubts we are a lot better than last year and really don’t think we will be scrapping around the relegation spots again
mid table will be an improvement and that’s where I think we will be

the question then will be  is Dean Smith the man to take us any further ie into the top 8/6 which will be a decision for the owners for another time because if we do finish mid table he will have improved year on year

my opinion on the defence is not a popular one on here
as I’ve mentioned a few times before so it’s not because of the two latest reverses and I have absolutely no problem with Mings, Konsa or Cash I think they have much ability and are good for the future of Aston Villa

However i still believe that Engels is the best centre half we have at the club and Guilbert the best right back

Engels is error prone and slow. 

Guilbert is error prone and gets out of position too easily.

Not the ideal attributes for defenders  ...



Like I say it’s not a popular view
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on November 02, 2020, 04:09:32 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on November 02, 2020, 03:05:16 PM
I am becoming concerned with Mings.
Not sure where his head is.

I think we need to strengthen the backups at CB in January to put Mings under competition for his place. He's struggling to play consistently well in the top division, this seasons form has regressed to match last seasons effort. Not much of a true leader either. Watching back that free kick, not jumping with the rest of the wall was unforgivable. He could have taken Armstrong down in the build up to the fourth too.

In saying that, midfield is starting to also regress to last seasons paper thin resistance and our defenders individually and collectively are struggling as a result.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: oldtimernow on November 02, 2020, 04:44:23 PM
What about Cash playing infront of Guilbert/ Elmo on the right hand side?

He was a midfielder at Forest
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on November 02, 2020, 04:52:42 PM
He was a poor/average at best midfielder at Forest who due to injuries got pushed in as an emergency right back and went on to become their Player of the Season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: London Villan on November 02, 2020, 06:29:25 PM
The midfield balance is the problem, particularly when SJM isnt playing well.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave17 on November 02, 2020, 07:04:11 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on November 02, 2020, 08:12:18 AM
"Chronically bad performances other than Liverpool..."

You mean beating Sheffield United, declaring after an hour at Fulham and deservedly beating Leicester, who are tipped for top four? Those chronically bad performances?

Fair to call me out for exaggerating but Sheffield against 10 wasn’t great, the disallowed goal against Fulham bailed us out a little and the last two games have had pretty awful periods. I think it’s fair to say we’ve played well on 1 out of the 6 so far and in the other games there have been periods where we reverted to last seasons garbage
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on November 02, 2020, 07:10:58 PM
Quote from: dave17 on November 02, 2020, 07:04:11 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on November 02, 2020, 08:12:18 AM
"Chronically bad performances other than Liverpool..."

You mean beating Sheffield United, declaring after an hour at Fulham and deservedly beating Leicester, who are tipped for top four? Those chronically bad performances?

Fair to call me out for exaggerating but Sheffield against 10 wasn’t great, the disallowed goal against Fulham bailed us out a little and the last two games have had pretty awful periods. I think it’s fair to say we’ve played well on 1 out of the 6 so far and in the other games there have been periods where we reverted to last seasons garbage

I'll call you out for a lot more than exaggerating.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on November 02, 2020, 07:27:28 PM
Quote from: dave17 on November 02, 2020, 07:04:11 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on November 02, 2020, 08:12:18 AM
"Chronically bad performances other than Liverpool..."

You mean beating Sheffield United, declaring after an hour at Fulham and deservedly beating Leicester, who are tipped for top four? Those chronically bad performances?

Fair to call me out for exaggerating but Sheffield against 10 wasn’t great, the disallowed goal against Fulham bailed us out a little and the last two games have had pretty awful periods. I think it’s fair to say we’ve played well on 1 out of the 6 so far and in the other games there have been periods where we reverted to last seasons garbage

We won fair and square against Sheff Utd.
Fulham we wrapped up early on and we could have smashed them for more way before their disallowed goal. I hope you're also counting all the goals we don't get this season when a sleeve is offside or the wind blows over their defender.
We smashed Liverpool clear out of the fucking universe.
We were more than a match for Leicester and won the game because we deserved to. The goal was a great move and finish.
We were even with Leeds, should have taken the lead and fell apart when they did.
Yes Southampton was dreadful and we made something of the end but the damage was done.

What exactly were you expecting of a team that stayed up with the pretty much the last kick of the game last season? We are going to have highs and lows, and probably more of the latter than the former.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: RamboandBruno on November 02, 2020, 07:28:17 PM
Quote from: dave17 on November 02, 2020, 07:04:11 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on November 02, 2020, 08:12:18 AM
"Chronically bad performances other than Liverpool..."

You mean beating Sheffield United, declaring after an hour at Fulham and deservedly beating Leicester, who are tipped for top four? Those chronically bad performances?

Fair to call me out for exaggerating but Sheffield against 10 wasn’t great, the disallowed goal against Fulham bailed us out a little and the last two games have had pretty awful periods. I think it’s fair to say we’ve played well on 1 out of the 6 so far and in the other games there have been periods where we reverted to last seasons garbage

I’m sorry that’s just utter nonsense. Sheff Utd was a close enough game, but we were the better side, Fulham we were in complete control and Leicester we were the better side.
In fact I really don’t get the semi meltdown taking place on here and what becomes the inevitable questions about smith already. We’re in the premier league, we’re not going to win the league, we’re not going to get champions league and it’s highly unlikely top 6. Top 10-8 would be an excellent season and another year of fairly rapid progression under smith from 15th in the championship when he took over.
If we finish in the top 10 we will lose some games and sometimes be outplayed, end of. Southampton have the best away record in the league in 2020 bar Liverpool and Man City and it was never going to be easy yesterday, I would of taken a draw.
Of course there have some tactical issues the last couple of games and some under par performances from some players, but some people’s willingness to practically write off smith, cash, Barkley and to a lesser extent McGinn, I find baffling. If we get two or three wins out of the next 5 games, it’s been an excellent start to the season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 02, 2020, 07:46:21 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on November 02, 2020, 04:52:42 PM
He was a poor/average at best midfielder at Forest who due to injuries got pushed in as an emergency right back and went on to become their Player of the Season.

Yes right back is his position. To be fair he has been left horrendously exposed in the last two games. He absolutely needs  to learn, but I think he has talent and he needs some fucking cover.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on November 02, 2020, 08:07:40 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on November 02, 2020, 07:27:28 PM
We won fair and square against Sheff Utd.
Fulham we wrapped up early on and we could have smashed them for more way before their disallowed goal. I hope you're also counting all the goals we don't get this season when a sleeve is offside or the wind blows over their defender.
We smashed Liverpool clear out of the fucking universe.
We were more than a match for Leicester and won the game because we deserved to. The goal was a great move and finish.
We were even with Leeds, should have taken the lead and fell apart when they did.
Yes Southampton was dreadful and we made something of the end but the damage was done.

What exactly were you expecting of a team that stayed up with the pretty much the last kick of the game last season? We are going to have highs and lows, and probably more of the latter than the former.

Apart from the Leeds reference (they could/should have been 3-4 up at HT), I fully agree, TV, especially your final sentence. it's going to take time though I'll be extremely disappointed if we finish lower than 10th. Dean Smith is testing himself against some of the best managers/coaches around; it's not only the players that need to learn and adapt or be replaced. Overall, we're heading in the right direction thanks to the investment made by the owners and a bloody good transfer selection. The rest will take time and a large dollop of patience.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on November 02, 2020, 08:19:52 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on November 02, 2020, 08:07:40 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on November 02, 2020, 07:27:28 PM
We won fair and square against Sheff Utd.
Fulham we wrapped up early on and we could have smashed them for more way before their disallowed goal. I hope you're also counting all the goals we don't get this season when a sleeve is offside or the wind blows over their defender.
We smashed Liverpool clear out of the fucking universe.
We were more than a match for Leicester and won the game because we deserved to. The goal was a great move and finish.
We were even with Leeds, should have taken the lead and fell apart when they did.
Yes Southampton was dreadful and we made something of the end but the damage was done.

What exactly were you expecting of a team that stayed up with the pretty much the last kick of the game last season? We are going to have highs and lows, and probably more of the latter than the former.

Apart from the Leeds reference (they could/should have been 3-4 up at HT), I fully agree, TV, especially your final sentence. it's going to take time though I'll be extremely disappointed if we finish lower than 10th. Dean Smith is testing himself against some of the best managers/coaches around; it's not only the players that need to learn and adapt or be replaced. Overall, we're heading in the right direction thanks to the investment made by the owners and a bloody good transfer selection. The rest will take time and a large dollop of patience.
Good posts TV and RCF.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on November 02, 2020, 08:23:13 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on November 02, 2020, 08:07:40 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on November 02, 2020, 07:27:28 PM
We won fair and square against Sheff Utd.
Fulham we wrapped up early on and we could have smashed them for more way before their disallowed goal. I hope you're also counting all the goals we don't get this season when a sleeve is offside or the wind blows over their defender.
We smashed Liverpool clear out of the fucking universe.
We were more than a match for Leicester and won the game because we deserved to. The goal was a great move and finish.
We were even with Leeds, should have taken the lead and fell apart when they did.
Yes Southampton was dreadful and we made something of the end but the damage was done.

What exactly were you expecting of a team that stayed up with the pretty much the last kick of the game last season? We are going to have highs and lows, and probably more of the latter than the former.

Apart from the Leeds reference (they could/should have been 3-4 up at HT), I fully agree, TV, especially your final sentence. it's going to take time though I'll be extremely disappointed if we finish lower than 10th. Dean Smith is testing himself against some of the best managers/coaches around; it's not only the players that need to learn and adapt or be replaced. Overall, we're heading in the right direction thanks to the investment made by the owners and a bloody good transfer selection. The rest will take time and a large dollop of patience.

I was probably a little generous with Leeds. Jack also had one cleared off the line at 0-0. But patience is the key and I suffer from a lack of it like everyone else in the moment. But on reflection that's what we need to be and temper our expectations. We are at best a mid table side which would be an immense improvement on last season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on November 02, 2020, 08:28:32 PM
So far we've beaten the current top 2 and 2 of the bottom 4. We've lost to the team in 5th and one in 12th.

We're doing OK and as can be seen Everton won 4 and have lost 2,everyone seems to be winning and losing. Its disappointing to have lost two in the way we have, particularly as it amounts to 90 minutes of football.

We had the best start we've had since 1931, that's not luck.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on November 02, 2020, 08:30:32 PM
As amfy famously said, last season was what seventeenth looks like. So far, this season is what comfortably mid-table looks like.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on November 02, 2020, 08:33:52 PM
It's our best top flight start (first 6 games) since 2009. After what felt like a decade of setting records for shitness it's nice to keep checking the records for positive reasons.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nunkin1965 on November 02, 2020, 08:41:22 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on November 02, 2020, 07:10:58 PM
Quote from: dave17 on November 02, 2020, 07:04:11 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on November 02, 2020, 08:12:18 AM
"Chronically bad performances other than Liverpool..."

You mean beating Sheffield United, declaring after an hour at Fulham and deservedly beating Leicester, who are tipped for top four? Those chronically bad performances?

Fair to call me out for exaggerating but Sheffield against 10 wasn’t great, the disallowed goal against Fulham bailed us out a little and the last two games have had pretty awful periods. I think it’s fair to say we’ve played well on 1 out of the 6 so far and in the other games there have been periods where we reverted to last seasons garbage

I'll call you out for a lot more than exaggerating.

This is a joke right?
I just don’t get some posts on here.
Think I’d better pour myself a drink and calm down.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on November 02, 2020, 09:33:31 PM
Quote from: dave17 on November 02, 2020, 07:04:11 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on November 02, 2020, 08:12:18 AM
"Chronically bad performances other than Liverpool..."

You mean beating Sheffield United, declaring after an hour at Fulham and deservedly beating Leicester, who are tipped for top four? Those chronically bad performances?

Fair to call me out for exaggerating but Sheffield against 10 wasn’t great, the disallowed goal against Fulham bailed us out a little and the last two games have had pretty awful periods. I think it’s fair to say we’ve played well on 1 out of the 6 so far and in the other games there have been periods where we reverted to last seasons garbage

You can debate Sheffield United, I'd say we played well enough to win but it was less than swashbuckling. Trying to undermine a comfortable three-nil win away from home, and an away win at a team that was one win off the Champions League last season and in which we restricted said top four contenders to a total of zero clear chances is just being negative for the sake of it. Not one of the other clubs in the division wouldn't have been delighted with those results.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on November 02, 2020, 09:54:07 PM
When you try and find faults in your team winning the first four games of the season and scoring 12 goals, then you really wonder why people bother. Maybe following a team isn't for them?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on November 02, 2020, 09:57:30 PM
Quote from: Clampy on November 02, 2020, 09:54:07 PM
When you try and find faults in your team winning the first four games of the season and scoring 12 goals, then you really wonder why people bother. Maybe following a team isn't for them?

It's a football forum, people have different opinions, maybe it's not for you?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on November 02, 2020, 10:04:00 PM
Quote from: Clampy on November 02, 2020, 09:54:07 PM
When you try and find faults in your team winning the first four games of the season and scoring 12 goals, then you really wonder why people bother. Maybe following a team isn't for them?
Especially after an entire decade of almost unrelenting shit.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on November 02, 2020, 10:04:34 PM
We've deservedly beaten the 2 sides that are currently first and second. We also deservedly beat Fulham and Sheff Utd. Trying to claim anything else isn't a different opinion, it's just plain wrong.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on November 02, 2020, 10:21:03 PM
Quote from: oldtimernow on November 02, 2020, 04:44:23 PM
What about Cash playing infront of Guilbert/ Elmo on the right hand side?

He was a midfielder at Forest

I did wonder whether we'd consider that for Arsenal but would leave the midfield a bit lopsided as we couldn't play 4-3-3 and not really sure how Barkley would fit into things.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on November 02, 2020, 11:18:20 PM
Quote from: brontebilly on November 02, 2020, 09:57:30 PM
Quote from: Clampy on November 02, 2020, 09:54:07 PM
When you try and find faults in your team winning the first four games of the season and scoring 12 goals, then you really wonder why people bother. Maybe following a team isn't for them?

It's a football forum, people have different opinions, maybe it's not for you?

Having an opinion is fine. Trying to find fault with being second in the league after 4 games after narrowly avoiding relegation two months earlier is another. There's no pleasing some people.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on November 03, 2020, 10:18:09 AM
Quote from: oldtimernow on November 02, 2020, 04:44:23 PM
What about Cash playing infront of Guilbert/ Elmo on the right hand side?

He was a midfielder at Forest
He may have played midfield in the second tier for a struggling team but for now let him develop in his best position and that’s at right back.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: rooboy316 on November 03, 2020, 11:46:01 AM
Quote from: in exile on November 02, 2020, 01:12:27 PM
Quote from: Bobby Boy on November 01, 2020, 05:01:34 PM
Interesting from DS's post-game press conference that at half-time players thought that they were being done tactically by Southampton which DS disagreed with.

Maybe some indication that players are concerned by our tactics. Doesn't excuse their lack of tempo or general lethargy recently though even if they might have a point.
There was a slight improvement in the second half, so who changed things, Smith or the players?

A bit of column A, a bit of column B. A lot of column C, which was that they sat back a lot more, and stopped pressing us as much higher up the pitch. We have, for a number of years, panicked against teams that do this. Invariably ends up with rushed passes back to the GK or Mings, who then hoofs it up to an isolated striker, and we lose possession. One of the great joys of this year, aside from the obvious scoreline, is watching the tables turned against Liverpool, as we pressed and they panicked.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: fbriai on November 03, 2020, 11:52:19 AM
Worth noting that Hasenhüttl commented after the game on the fact that we have so many attacking options that they had to double up on lots of different players, but that that's only sustainable for so long and that they were knackered for the last part of the game because of it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on November 03, 2020, 12:20:46 PM
Quote from: fbriai on November 03, 2020, 11:52:19 AM
Worth noting that Hasenhüttl commented after the game on the fact that we have so many attacking options that they had to double up on lots of different players, but that that's only sustainable for so long and that they were knackered for the last part of the game because of it.

It's an interesting one. They were lucky to get great free-kick opportunities (through our defensive errors), they scored a great goal through Ings, without those lapses from us perhaps we'd have done them.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on November 03, 2020, 12:45:11 PM
Quote from: Drummond on November 03, 2020, 12:20:46 PM
Quote from: fbriai on November 03, 2020, 11:52:19 AM
Worth noting that Hasenhüttl commented after the game on the fact that we have so many attacking options that they had to double up on lots of different players, but that that's only sustainable for so long and that they were knackered for the last part of the game because of it.

It's an interesting one. They were lucky to get great free-kick opportunities (through our defensive errors), they scored a great goal through Ings, without those lapses from us perhaps we'd have done them.

It would help if we started the game the way we ended it. That is try and dominate possession from the start. We let them play, we let them create the best chances early on. They forced us into poor decisions and we paid dearly from them. And it's not the first time this season where we have given the opponents too much of the ball and then when we have won it back hoofed it right back to them. I just don't get why that it is even allowed by a manager not know for that style of play. Hoofing long to our striker is such a low percentage tactic but we keep doing it and putting ourselves immediately back under pressure.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brend'Watkins on November 03, 2020, 02:04:32 PM
Agree.  The formation and style of play we started with was a new one on me. It's as if the tactic was "Let's bamboozle them by playing shit".  Watching Leicester last night was how I'd like to see us approach games.  They kept great shape throughout.  Attacked and defended as a team and always carried a threat.  Okay, they have a great target man in Vardy and Leeds had Bamford looking for any kind of  cylinder to fire on but even so their approach was first class. We have enough skill, individual talent in the middle to do the same so why don't we try, from the off?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Duncan Shaw on November 03, 2020, 02:43:59 PM
But you are pretty much describing how we played against Leicester?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brend'Watkins on November 03, 2020, 03:21:38 PM
I don't think I am.  We were slow in our approach against Leicester.  In that game both teams cancelled themselves out with an over cautious approach. I don't mind a cautious approach against quality sides.  I think that's how we'll approach the Arsenal game too. Against Southampton I have no idea what the plan was first half.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on November 03, 2020, 03:23:44 PM
Leicester was cautious because of what they saw us do to Liverpool the game before. They couldn't afford to be as aggressive in fear of our counter. Also they didn't have Vardy who makes a massive difference for them and how they approach the game. It was still a brilliant win for us but there were significant factors that contributed to that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on November 03, 2020, 04:37:56 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on November 03, 2020, 03:23:44 PM
Leicester was cautious because of what they saw us do to Liverpool the game before. They couldn't afford to be as aggressive in fear of our counter. Also they didn't have Vardy who makes a massive difference for them and how they approach the game. It was still a brilliant win for us but there were significant factors that contributed to that.
And, equally, Leeds and Sourhampton took the view that if they pressed and stopped us getting into our stride they'd smother us; which they did.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Allan C on November 03, 2020, 05:08:40 PM
Quote from: Clampy on November 02, 2020, 09:54:07 PM
When you try and find faults in your team winning the first four games of the season and scoring 12 goals, then you really wonder why people bother. Maybe following a team isn't for them?
Absolutely agree with this  I can’t quite believe what I’m reading on some threads. I also dislike the way some have to find a scapegoat
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Big Ming on November 03, 2020, 05:45:36 PM
On the basis of the second half against Southampton, better let the players decide the formation and tactics against the Arse.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on November 03, 2020, 06:01:10 PM
Let's just call it quits and do them at the Dell in 6 months or whenever.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: RamboandBruno on November 03, 2020, 06:42:48 PM
I think this is a team with a) new players and b) good existing players who survived a really traumatic season last year. I think they probably have confidence which aligns with their ability but that confidence is probably a bit fragile at the moment and Leeds probably knocked them back, hence then being a bit all over the place against a good team, when they walked over the white line. Whether smith told them to play further up the pitch or they decided themselves, we’ll never really know (like most things it was probs shades of grey and a bit of both).
Although we lost on Sunday, hopefully the second half performance gives them a bit of that confidence and pomp back. I also get Southampton cruising hence letting us back in the game, but we were  also good enough to take advantage of that, I’m convinced another 5 mins and we equalise. We would never have got 3 goals back from that position last year.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on November 03, 2020, 06:51:44 PM
We're also a young side, youngest in the division.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: oldhill_avfc on November 04, 2020, 02:01:13 PM
Without getting too bogged down in the detailed tactics - it seems to me that the basic difference in the Leeds and Southampton games was a reversion to the pre lockdown open style of play. 

After lockdown and in the first 4 games we seemed to have a more conservative approach and prioritised staying in the game and then taking our chances as the game opened up (even the Liverpool game was like this as we essentially hit  them on the counter time and time again).

Maybe the management team will give it a rethink as we certainly got overloaded in midfield and against the fullbacks in the last 2 games when we over committed going forward.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on November 04, 2020, 04:22:56 PM
Quote from: RamboandBruno on November 03, 2020, 06:42:48 PM
.... I also get Southampton cruising hence letting us back in the game, but we were  also good enough to take advantage of that ...
but, according to Ralph, they weren't "cruising": they were knackered from maintaining a high press on us for the first hour.
Our challenge is keep the game tighter and survive the initial storm posed by the oppo. We did that against SheffU and Leicester; it can be done.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: jwarry on November 04, 2020, 04:50:42 PM
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on November 03, 2020, 06:51:44 PM
We're also a young side, youngest in the division.
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on November 03, 2020, 06:51:44 PM
We're also a young side, youngest in the division.

Are we, I didn’t know that
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on November 04, 2020, 04:58:51 PM
Quote from: jwarry on November 04, 2020, 04:50:42 PM
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on November 03, 2020, 06:51:44 PM
We're also a young side, youngest in the division.

Are we, I didn’t know that

It's not by much, but yes.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/premier-league/altersschnitt/wettbewerb/GB1
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on November 04, 2020, 05:00:39 PM
That's actual combatants that have taken to the field of play btw, not squad age.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SamTheMouse on November 04, 2020, 07:30:27 PM
Quote from: oldhill_avfc on November 04, 2020, 02:01:13 PM
Without getting too bogged down in the detailed tactics - it seems to me that the basic difference in the Leeds and Southampton games was a reversion to the pre lockdown open style of play. 

After lockdown and in the first 4 games we seemed to have a more conservative approach and prioritised staying in the game and then taking our chances as the game opened up (even the Liverpool game was like this as we essentially hit  them on the counter time and time again).

Maybe the management team will give it a rethink as we certainly got overloaded in midfield and against the fullbacks in the last 2 games when we over committed going forward.

Yep, this is exactly my impression.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dcdavecollett on November 04, 2020, 11:52:05 PM
Interesting thought, though I'm not sure the 'cagey' approach you are advocating -and I would certainly want against Arse- is a good description of the performance against Liverpool!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Hillbilly on November 08, 2020, 11:04:39 PM
When Dean Smith came to Villa, I recall a comment by a pundit that his teams tend to go all out for goals. And when it works it's exceptional but it can go horribly wrong. I think this season with a team that's pretty much all his we're now seeing it play out.

I'll take entertaining.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on November 08, 2020, 11:07:26 PM
I have decided Dean can stay in charge for another match.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Astnor on November 09, 2020, 08:29:23 AM
Quote from: Hillbilly on November 08, 2020, 11:04:39 PM
When Dean Smith came to Villa, I recall a comment by a pundit that his teams tend to go all out for goals. And when it works it's exceptional but it can go horribly wrong. I think this season with a team that's pretty much all his we're now seeing it play out.

I'll take entertaining.
This. I was sceptical yesterday when I saw the line up and he hadnt changed anything after seven against last two matches. Espescially sceptical about playing Trez again as it seems to me that opposition tend to pass to easily around him somtimes and leave Cash on his own. And then Trez makes most of the first goal ....
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VILLA MOLE on November 09, 2020, 09:16:58 AM
Quote from: olaftab on November 08, 2020, 11:07:26 PM
I have decided Dean can stay in charge for another match.

lets not be hasty  :D
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on November 09, 2020, 09:47:05 AM
if someone had a list of the first 7 games and said your going to win 5 of them

no one would have predicted which 5
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: West Derby Villan on November 09, 2020, 10:22:26 AM
Quote from: john e on November 09, 2020, 09:47:05 AM
if someone had a list of the first 7 games and said your going to win 5 of them

no one would have predicted which 5

Agree, no never in a month of Sundays ..........(a month equals 3 Sunday’s , right?)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Axl Rose on November 09, 2020, 10:30:34 AM
Quote from: olaftab on November 08, 2020, 11:07:26 PM
I have decided Dean can stay in charge for another match.

Same here!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on November 09, 2020, 10:44:29 AM
I think we're seeing what we wanted. Attractive football that gives us a chance of winning against anyone. There are risks in this style, and the defeats we've had prove that.

However, so far, I'll take this version of Villa over any we've had this century.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Hookeysmith on November 09, 2020, 02:43:12 PM
Quote from: Drummond on November 09, 2020, 10:44:29 AM
I think we're seeing what we wanted. Attractive football that gives us a chance of winning against anyone. There are risks in this style, and the defeats we've had prove that.

However, so far, I'll take this version of Villa over any we've had this century.


100% agree - lets hope we are still like this when we get to see them live again

VP will be rocking to the rafters
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on November 10, 2020, 09:26:36 AM
had to laugh this morning when i was chatting to the kids before they went to school

i was telling them we had the youngest average age team in the premier league
and my Daughter said

 'yes and we've ordered loads more young players as well'

Ordered !   she thinks they're coming from Amazon

she's not wrong though, investing in the 15-18 age group hoovering up the young talent from all over Europe is a master plan for future world domination
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on November 10, 2020, 09:42:16 AM
Credit where credit is due and Smith has now turned us into that team we wanted us to be. It just shows when he has the tools, his attacking formula can be a joy to watch. This approach is always going to back fire I suppose and if he can learn to combat it then we're going to be something special.

Anyway wasn't sure where to put this but so far so good, it's very pleasant reading and how we deserve it after so many years of being at the wrong end of the charts.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54867591 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54867591)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: rooboy316 on November 10, 2020, 09:53:50 AM
Quote from: Ian J on November 10, 2020, 09:42:16 AM
Credit where credit is due and Smith has now turned us into that team we wanted us to be. It just shows when he has the tools, his attacking formula can be a joy to watch. This approach is always going to back fire I suppose and if he can learn to combat it then we're going to be something special.

Anyway wasn't sure where to put this but so far so good, it's very pleasant reading and how we deserve it after so many years of being at the wrong end of the charts.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54867591 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54867591)

Nice to read that list! I’d have Dougie in there ahead of McGinn.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Alex77 on November 10, 2020, 10:22:26 AM
Quote from: Drummond on November 09, 2020, 10:44:29 AM
I think we're seeing what we wanted. Attractive football that gives us a chance of winning against anyone. There are risks in this style, and the defeats we've had prove that.

However, so far, I'll take this version of Villa over any we've had this century.


I'm totally in this camp. It's great to be excited about watching us again. However, the one that still hurts is the Leeds game. I'd have happily settled for a miserable performance and grinding out a result against that lot.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on November 10, 2020, 11:22:44 AM
Quote from: Alex77 on November 10, 2020, 10:22:26 AM
Quote from: Drummond on November 09, 2020, 10:44:29 AM
I think we're seeing what we wanted. Attractive football that gives us a chance of winning against anyone. There are risks in this style, and the defeats we've had prove that.

However, so far, I'll take this version of Villa over any we've had this century.


I'm totally in this camp. It's great to be excited about watching us again. However, the one that still hurts is the Leeds game. I'd have happily settled for a miserable performance and grinding out a result against that lot.

At the time, yes, I'd have taken a pragmatic point. It shows we can adapt, blah, blah, blah. But in hindsight, nah, bollocks to that. Leave compromise to politics and marriage.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on November 10, 2020, 11:33:02 AM
Quote from: Alex77 on November 10, 2020, 10:22:26 AM
Quote from: Drummond on November 09, 2020, 10:44:29 AM
I think we're seeing what we wanted. Attractive football that gives us a chance of winning against anyone. There are risks in this style, and the defeats we've had prove that.

However, so far, I'll take this version of Villa over any we've had this century.


I'm totally in this camp. It's great to be excited about watching us again. However, the one that still hurts is the Leeds game. I'd have happily settled for a miserable performance and grinding out a result against that lot.
Leeds were very good that night, can’t take that away from them. I do wonder if we would have gone two up though with those missed chances (although probably undeserved) we’d have gone on to win comfortable.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on November 10, 2020, 11:43:07 AM
I do wonder about Leeds, they have looked very good but teams can beat them easily. Last season we also looked good at times but we had a fair few games before November and we didn’t have that bit of luck and couldn’t turn those games into wins, then when our heads dropped we couldn’t get out of a rut, I wonder what will happen with them in there first season back?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on November 10, 2020, 11:45:14 AM
When we’ve won we’ve not just played at times at a level none of us thought capable. We have also won ugly which every team needs to do. What I now want to see is if we can go on another run and use the belief we have to follow up great performances with another one.

Our league games until the end of the year give us a great chance to secure a top half spot and even a solid place in the top 6 going into the new year.

Brighton H
West Ham A
Newcastle H
Wolves A
Burnley H
West Brom A
Palace H
Chelsea A
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OCD on November 10, 2020, 11:51:13 AM
Chelsea away will obviously be hard and the Wolves game second hardest but they're not looking their best yet. The Leeds and Southampton's games show that we can't be complacent or play within ourselves and if we underestimate people, it could cost us.

I don't know the stats but I would imagine there are more away wins without crowds. Brighton are capable of playing a blinder and Palace are capable of a solid away performance.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: algy on November 10, 2020, 11:59:17 AM
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on November 10, 2020, 11:22:44 AM
Quote from: Alex77 on November 10, 2020, 10:22:26 AM
Quote from: Drummond on November 09, 2020, 10:44:29 AM
I think we're seeing what we wanted. Attractive football that gives us a chance of winning against anyone. There are risks in this style, and the defeats we've had prove that.

However, so far, I'll take this version of Villa over any we've had this century.


I'm totally in this camp. It's great to be excited about watching us again. However, the one that still hurts is the Leeds game. I'd have happily settled for a miserable performance and grinding out a result against that lot.

At the time, yes, I'd have taken a pragmatic point. It shows we can adapt, blah, blah, blah. But in hindsight, nah, bollocks to that. Leave compromise to politics and marriage.
Yep, me too.  You either want bombastic football - with the good (Villa 7-2 Liverpool; Arsenal 0-3 Villa) and the bad (Villa 0-3 Leeds) - or you don't.  I'd rather we go out every game and play like we're the best side on the planet, or at least try to.

Don't dream it, be it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brend'Watkins on November 10, 2020, 12:04:36 PM
Each game as it comes should be our approach.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Daley’s dreads on November 10, 2020, 12:08:44 PM
Yes definitely one game at a time.

As a side note, I said a few weeks ago we might find the Southamptons and Palaces the most difficult this season.
They are stronger than us physically and also quick with plenty of experience and savvy managers.
Think we’re better suited to the top teams and the bottom 5 or 6 personally.
Wouldn’t be surprised if Palace ground out a 1-0 against us.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hipkiss92 on November 10, 2020, 12:15:44 PM
Quote from: Ian J on November 10, 2020, 11:33:02 AM
Quote from: Alex77 on November 10, 2020, 10:22:26 AM
Quote from: Drummond on November 09, 2020, 10:44:29 AM
I think we're seeing what we wanted. Attractive football that gives us a chance of winning against anyone. There are risks in this style, and the defeats we've had prove that.

However, so far, I'll take this version of Villa over any we've had this century.


I'm totally in this camp. It's great to be excited about watching us again. However, the one that still hurts is the Leeds game. I'd have happily settled for a miserable performance and grinding out a result against that lot.
Leeds were very good that night, can’t take that away from them. I do wonder if we would have gone two up though with those missed chances (although probably undeserved) we’d have gone on to win comfortable.

The way Leeds set up to play will gain them a lot of points this season, but there will be plenty of games where, because individually their players aren't brilliant, the opposition will get on top of them and make them look fairly average.

Our game at home to them in the championship is a case in point. We went 2-0 up in the first half where they missed plenty of chances due to individual errors. Unfortunately we couldn't deal with them continuing to make those chances in the 2nd half of that game and we came unstuck.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on November 10, 2020, 01:41:33 PM
one of my biggest moans and disappointments over the last few years is that no matter how well we were playing we always found it very difficult to take points of the top 6 teams, give or take the odd one or two down the ages

i felt it was confidence, we didn't believe we could win so we didn't, lost before it started
how many times even last season did we throw away leads and turn into sponge puddings, Liverpool, Arsenal, Spurs, Man Utd etc
the worse things about those performances is that we struggled to retain the ball, giving it away far to easily and looking scared to compete

that's the best thing about this season so far for me, Liverpool, Leicester, Arsenal all put to the sword with great commanding performances
it's years since we had a team with the confidence to do that probably going back to MON's time, and even then it was more smash and grab

absolutely delighted to have hopefully put those times behind us

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on November 10, 2020, 02:13:35 PM
Quote from: john e on November 10, 2020, 01:41:33 PM
one of my biggest moans and disappointments over the last few years is that no matter how well we were playing we always found it very difficult to take points of the top 6 teams, give or take the odd one or two down the ages

i felt it was confidence, we didn't believe we could win so we didn't, lost before it started
how many times even last season did we throw away leads and turn into sponge puddings, Liverpool, Arsenal, Spurs, Man Utd etc
the worse things about those performances is that we struggled to retain the ball, giving it away far to easily and looking scared to compete

that's the best thing about this season so far for me, Liverpool, Leicester, Arsenal all put to the sword with great commanding performances
it's years since we had a team with the confidence to do that probably going back to MON's time, and even then it was more smash and grab

absolutely delighted to have hopefully put those times behind us



I totally agree John.  The other thing is, we rarely scored when we were well on top in games, so that we when had our very usual "bad half" we always ended up chucking points away.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OCD on November 10, 2020, 03:06:32 PM
I think the improvement in fitness is a big part of that. We would be leading sides and the opposition would get on top of the game and we would end up losing the lead. Compare Sunday's game to the Arsenal away game last year for instance.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on November 10, 2020, 03:24:15 PM
As much as I've given him a bit of stick over last few weeks Barkley was superb on Sunday as I had a feeling he would be as felt like his sort of game where Arsenal set up would leave all sorts of gaps between  midfield and defence.

That sort of signing really lifts the menality of the whole 11 I think as he's that type of been it done it player we've been lacking for quite a while and Arsenal away is just another game for him whereas I think for lots of the squad last season it was a nice day out and didn't matter if we lost.

Signing 4-5 of those types in one go can disrupt the tight knit spirit and get the wage bill rocketing up but makes sense to get one of that type in per transfer window so really looking forward to seeing type of player we target in January given we're on the brink of a very exciting season.

I know some will say we should wait and keep our powder dry until next summer but we saw in the MON years sometimes tomorrow never comes and then key players start wanting to leave so I'd rather we go all in given the levelling out of the league this season due to all the off field factors.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on November 10, 2020, 05:40:07 PM
Quote from: Risso on November 10, 2020, 02:13:35 PM
Quote from: john e on November 10, 2020, 01:41:33 PM
one of my biggest moans and disappointments over the last few years is that no matter how well we were playing we always found it very difficult to take points of the top 6 teams, give or take the odd one or two down the ages

i felt it was confidence, we didn't believe we could win so we didn't, lost before it started
how many times even last season did we throw away leads and turn into sponge puddings, Liverpool, Arsenal, Spurs, Man Utd etc
the worse things about those performances is that we struggled to retain the ball, giving it away far to easily and looking scared to compete

that's the best thing about this season so far for me, Liverpool, Leicester, Arsenal all put to the sword with great commanding performances
it's years since we had a team with the confidence to do that probably going back to MON's time, and even then it was more smash and grab

absolutely delighted to have hopefully put those times behind us



I totally agree John.  The other thing is, we rarely scored when we were well on top in games, so that we when had our very usual "bad half" we always ended up chucking points away.

I know mate
Worrying thing is we’re going going to be running out of things to moan about soon the pair of us
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on November 10, 2020, 05:44:38 PM
Quote from: Risso on November 10, 2020, 02:13:35 PM
Quote from: john e on November 10, 2020, 01:41:33 PM
one of my biggest moans and disappointments over the last few years is that no matter how well we were playing we always found it very difficult to take points of the top 6 teams, give or take the odd one or two down the ages

i felt it was confidence, we didn't believe we could win so we didn't, lost before it started
how many times even last season did we throw away leads and turn into sponge puddings, Liverpool, Arsenal, Spurs, Man Utd etc
the worse things about those performances is that we struggled to retain the ball, giving it away far to easily and looking scared to compete

that's the best thing about this season so far for me, Liverpool, Leicester, Arsenal all put to the sword with great commanding performances
it's years since we had a team with the confidence to do that probably going back to MON's time, and even then it was more smash and grab

absolutely delighted to have hopefully put those times behind us



I totally agree John.  The other thing is, we rarely scored when we were well on top in games, so that we when had our very usual "bad half" we always ended up chucking points away.
Whinge Brothers going out of business...happy days.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: RamboandBruno on November 10, 2020, 06:18:26 PM
Quote from: Brend'Watkins on November 10, 2020, 12:04:36 PM
Each game as it comes should be our approach.

Spot on. The up coming games on paper look more winnable that Liverpool, Arsenal, Leicester and Southampton, but we all know football doesn’t always work like that. Just from watching MOTD this season Brighton play some great stuff but don’t seem to be able to finish teams off, they will string a few wins together at some point. West Ham are up and down, Palace are decent on their day and chelsea and wolves good teams. So we’ll see I guess, the difference we should go into each of these games thinking we can win...and put bloody Newcastle with Bruce and Callum Wilson to the sword with a good hammering
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Astnor on November 10, 2020, 06:40:10 PM
Quote from: Brend'Watkins on November 10, 2020, 12:04:36 PM
Each game as it comes should be our approach.
Smith has said that his approach is "to try to win every game".
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on November 10, 2020, 06:54:58 PM
Quote from: OCD on November 10, 2020, 03:06:32 PM
I think the improvement in fitness is a big part of that. We would be leading sides and the opposition would get on top of the game and we would end up losing the lead. Compare Sunday's game to the Arsenal away game last year for instance.

Fitness, better players coming in during the summer but for me the two key factors are the mentality and additional backroom support.

For far, far too long, we had players that were just too comfortable being an Aston Villa player; the salary and lifestyle it brings, financially secure on long contracts but with no pressure to develop and get results. Their ambition had already been achieved by the above and the mentality was one of 'it's Aston Villa, a big club, too big to get relegated, not serious challengers, steady Eddies in the PL, they pay top wages, a very comfortable place to earn a living.

That mentality has now changed and largely thanks to the financial muscle of our owners, Dean has the power to bring in better players to the first team rather than adding to the squad. Players now know they can be replaced and an ambitious, winning mentality has developed. It's not just money though, look at Arsenal or the Plastics who have spent a fortune over the last few years and their players expect to win because of where they are but without the effort they're both struggling. Obviously it helps having players like Jack that are extremely ambitious around the place but also put in massive shifts every game. That kind of mentality has been a long time coming but we can see not only from results but performances it's a winning formula.

The other factor is how Dean has built up his backroom team. During the break earlier this year Dean was quoted as saying something about how he had spent the time to analyse why we had such a shit defence and were heading for relegation. My first thoughts were he's way out of his depth if he's only now looking to solve the problems, we need a manager not a bloody auditor.

Looking back, maybe the problem wasn't the job's too big for him but the Club is. There was so much that fell under his remit, lots of stuff that we sometimes forget is his responsibility, from the academy to recruitment, everything football wise has to pass his desk. Then he has a squad of 25+ players and 3 coaches to help him out, one of them being a goalkeeping coach. Not much time to work the details and improve the results or develop the players.

I'd say some of our most important signings in the summer were bringing in talented pros to allow Dean to delegate. Johan Lange looks to have taken a big weight off Dean's shoulders, not only on recruitment but right across the board. Craig Shakespeare was a superb addition to the coaching team, bringing tonnes of experience and know-how. Maybe now, as for the first time in years, Aston Villa look 'prepared' and Dean can finally focus on his real job.

Apologies, never meant for that to be so bloody long.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on November 10, 2020, 09:11:10 PM
Good post RCF, great points made about the back room staff and the mentality around the place.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: West Derby Villan on November 10, 2020, 09:19:58 PM
Yeah great post Rudy
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OCD on November 10, 2020, 09:58:10 PM
The mentality reflects on the ambitions of the owners. Doug Ellis was comfortable with where we were and that came through to the players. Now we have ambitious owners with the resources to back it up. We may have had one but not both, at least not for long.

On the point about a bigger backroom staff, other clubs have been adopting the model of having 3 assistant coaches too so that would suggest that's where the modern game is going. Adding Shakespeare also means he's added Premier League experience to the coaching team, which hadn't had it before last season. Although last year's experience will have added there too.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: JD on November 10, 2020, 11:58:17 PM
Great post RCF.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: rooboy316 on November 11, 2020, 10:02:55 AM
For so long there has been an air of inevitability against the top 6. We went into the games with a backs to the wall attitude, sat deep and waited. Sometimes we’d grind out a draw. Very rarely we’d sneak a flukey goal on the break. There was never any intention or design to try and win these games.

Now we might get thumped occasionally on an off day, because of the approach, but it fills me with joy and hope knowing we approach every game on the front foot, and there’s always the desire to getting something out of these games.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SamTheMouse on November 11, 2020, 10:20:35 AM
I think Shakespeare might turn out to be our most important piece of recruitment for years.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Hookeysmith on November 11, 2020, 04:21:06 PM
In addition to the great post by RCF i think the change in age profile across the squad has made a huge difference.

No longer are we a refuge for the aging, has been, journeymen for a final payday. No team is going to get the likes of an aging Lescott, Downing, Lansbury, Richards et al to bust a gut - their careers are almost over and they have made their money.

Now we have young, athletic, ambitious and hungry team.

Other than the hounding on text by Jack to Barkley to join Smith stated he would get him the England place back

Now we have
Mings
Konsa
Cash
Targett
Luiz
McGinn
Trez
Watkins

all of which have big international ambitions and see us as a platform to realise them. The turnaround has been nothing short of a miracle
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on November 11, 2020, 04:24:05 PM
We have finally got young and hungry right
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on November 11, 2020, 07:08:14 PM
Well, and don't forget we've massively upgraded the managerial staff at the Academy; presumably to keep the various jobs well defined and no one being overstretched in terms of accountability.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on November 11, 2020, 08:13:10 PM
Great posts, great debate, great to be a Villa fan
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: robbo1874 on November 11, 2020, 09:02:40 PM
Quote from: olaftab on November 10, 2020, 05:44:38 PM
Quote from: Risso on November 10, 2020, 02:13:35 PM
Quote from: john e on November 10, 2020, 01:41:33 PM
one of my biggest moans and disappointments over the last few years is that no matter how well we were playing we always found it very difficult to take points of the top 6 teams, give or take the odd one or two down the ages

i felt it was confidence, we didn't believe we could win so we didn't, lost before it started
how many times even last season did we throw away leads and turn into sponge puddings, Liverpool, Arsenal, Spurs, Man Utd etc
the worse things about those performances is that we struggled to retain the ball, giving it away far to easily and looking scared to compete

that's the best thing about this season so far for me, Liverpool, Leicester, Arsenal all put to the sword with great commanding performances
it's years since we had a team with the confidence to do that probably going back to MON's time, and even then it was more smash and grab

absolutely delighted to have hopefully put those times behind us



I totally agree John.  The other thing is, we rarely scored when we were well on top in games, so that we when had our very usual "bad half" we always ended up chucking points away.
Whinge Brothers going out of business...happy days.
good point about giving the ball away. It drove me mad last season. So many errors.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: fredm on November 11, 2020, 09:02:51 PM
And the good thing about the "new" attitude is that it will show the young lads coming through the academy that that is the level they must be striving for.  They will see that just having a bit of natural ability is no longer good enough to earn a place in the first team squad, it will be the effort and commitment that goes with it that will get them there and then they have to maintain/improve it to retain their place.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dick Edwards on November 12, 2020, 09:17:41 AM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on November 11, 2020, 04:24:05 PM
We have finally got young and hungry right

This!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: jcsutv on November 12, 2020, 09:50:51 AM
It always annoyed me how we kick off games with a pass back to Mings, only for him to hoof it to the right wing, giving up possession. As we watched on Sunday, my 12 yr old said “they have done it again Dad.“ 30 seconds later the ball was in the back of the Arsenal net and we both said, “oh maybe it works!”.  Well done Deano.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on November 13, 2020, 08:32:06 AM
only it didn't.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on November 13, 2020, 08:35:30 AM
Quote from: mr underhill on November 13, 2020, 08:32:06 AM
only it didn't.

Happy little soul, aren't you?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on November 13, 2020, 08:44:57 AM
Quote from: mr underhill on November 13, 2020, 08:32:06 AM
only it didn't.
It did but it was disallowed quite controversially.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on November 13, 2020, 08:44:59 AM
Quote from: JD on November 10, 2020, 11:58:17 PM
Great post RCF.

Rudy can't fail.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OCD on November 13, 2020, 11:24:08 AM
Quote from: The Edge on November 13, 2020, 08:44:57 AM
Quote from: mr underhill on November 13, 2020, 08:32:06 AM
only it didn't.
It did but it was disallowed quite controversially.

I wasn't happy with the decision in the heat of the moment, as I'm sure many of us weren't, but ref's can't start deciding what a goalkeeper can save or not save. This one was clear cut but it sets a dangerous precedent and you only need to start having ones where it's contentious and it will cause problems.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave shelley on November 13, 2020, 12:41:25 PM
I've lost count of the times I've seen goals given where I thought if I'd been referee or linesman, I'd have disallowed the goal because the attacker had impeded the goalkeepers vision.  The whole scrutiny of the minutiae is becoming so over the top that they might as well dispense with the referee and have a robot like one of those robotic lawn mower things buzzing around the pitch.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on November 13, 2020, 02:28:44 PM
Yet again Dave W you have got it spectacularly wrong - my comment  earlier was nothing to do with an emotion state and everything to do with fact.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on November 13, 2020, 02:49:20 PM
Quote from: mr underhill on November 13, 2020, 02:28:44 PM
Yet again Dave W you have got it spectacularly wrong - my comment  earlier was nothing to do with an emotion state and everything to do with fact.

Awww, did the nasty man upset you?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TelfordVilla on November 13, 2020, 02:54:57 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on November 13, 2020, 02:49:20 PM
Quote from: mr underhill on November 13, 2020, 02:28:44 PM
Yet again Dave W you have got it spectacularly wrong - my comment  earlier was nothing to do with an emotion state and everything to do with fact.

Awww, did the nasty man upset you?
Wow, there are some tetchy people on here this week. Is it due to the International break ? Remember Villa are 3pts off the top with a game in hand people......it's all good.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on November 13, 2020, 05:20:03 PM
Quote from: mr underhill on November 13, 2020, 02:28:44 PM
Yet again Dave W you have got it spectacularly wrong - my comment  earlier was nothing to do with an emotion state and everything to do with fact.

How is it a fact? It led to a goal, that the goal was disallowed doesn't mean the tactic didn't work, it just means it didn't result in the goal it very easily could've. Does a player not count as having given away a penalty if it gets missed?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: jcsutv on November 13, 2020, 05:34:10 PM
Quote from: paul_e on November 13, 2020, 05:20:03 PM
Quote from: mr underhill on November 13, 2020, 02:28:44 PM
Yet again Dave W you have got it spectacularly wrong - my comment  earlier was nothing to do with an emotion state and everything to do with fact.

How is it a fact? It led to a goal, that the goal was disallowed doesn't mean the tactic didn't work, it just means it didn't result in the goal it very easily could've. Does a player not count as having given away a penalty if it gets missed?

I’m not convinced it is a great tactic but it did work this week.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: charlatan on November 13, 2020, 05:35:45 PM
Quote from: OCD on November 13, 2020, 11:24:08 AM
Quote from: The Edge on November 13, 2020, 08:44:57 AM
Quote from: mr underhill on November 13, 2020, 08:32:06 AM
only it didn't.
It did but it was disallowed quite controversially.

I wasn't happy with the decision in the heat of the moment, as I'm sure many of us weren't, but ref's can't start deciding what a goalkeeper can save or not save. This one was clear cut but it sets a dangerous precedent and you only need to start having ones where it's contentious and it will cause problems.

Why not? They seem to have to decide whether a covering defender is within range to stop a clear goalscoring opportunity or indeed whether the striker woukld have reached a through ball before an onrushing goalkeeper and more often whether someone's head was near enough to possibly have been wellied by a high boot. Similarly, for penalty tries in rugby, the ref has to decide whether or not a covering player could have tackled the likely scorer.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: charlatan on November 13, 2020, 05:48:59 PM
Quote from: dave shelley on November 13, 2020, 12:41:25 PM
I've lost count of the times I've seen goals given where I thought if I'd been referee or linesman, I'd have disallowed the goal because the attacker had impeded the goalkeepers vision.  The whole scrutiny of the minutiae is becoming so over the top that they might as well dispense with the referee and have a robot like one of those robotic lawn mower things buzzing around the pitch.

From experience as the linesman looking from side on it's impossible to tell whether the player is offside, and then it's likely the ref doesn't have a clear picture of the incident in his head, so after a chat he has a guess.....seems an appropriate situation for VAR to disallow if interference is clear and obvious.

The question is what constitutes interfering with play. I can think of numerous interpretations:

1) Goalkeeper wouldn't have stopped it, so player in offside position couldn't have materially interfered with play
2) Goalkeeper probably wouldn't have stopped it, so insufficient evidence that the player in an offside position interfered to overturn with VAR
3) Goalkeeper might have stopped it, so clear evidence that play has been interfered with
4) Goalkeeper missed opportunity to make completely inconsequential movement in the direction of the ball, so clear evidence play interfered with
5) (Very old school quote from Stourbridge centre half John Horne (and no doubt thousands of others)) 'If he's not interfering with play, what the **** is he doing on the ******* pitch ref?'

I realise 5 is no longer in vogue, but I'm unclear which of the others is correct. (I haven't reffed for 17 years.)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on November 13, 2020, 05:50:48 PM
Quote from: jcsutv on November 13, 2020, 05:34:10 PM
Quote from: paul_e on November 13, 2020, 05:20:03 PM
Quote from: mr underhill on November 13, 2020, 02:28:44 PM
Yet again Dave W you have got it spectacularly wrong - my comment  earlier was nothing to do with an emotion state and everything to do with fact.

How is it a fact? It led to a goal, that the goal was disallowed doesn't mean the tactic didn't work, it just means it didn't result in the goal it very easily could've. Does a player not count as having given away a penalty if it gets missed?

I’m not convinced it is a great tactic but it did work this week.

I'm not sure, I quite like the idea of testing the fullbacks early, either by getting them into a race with our winger or just running at them. Most fullbacks in the league are better going forward than defending, making them realise they're in for a tough day early is well worth doing. If we did it all the time (like under Bruce with goal kicks) then I'd be more bothered by it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: DrGonzo on November 13, 2020, 05:52:09 PM
If anybody had offered me 5 wins from the first 7 games this year I would have, not only, bitten their hands off but possibly have gnawed mightily on their calves and nibbled lightly around their ears.  Dean has brought a breath of fresh air to this club that has been missing since the Brian Little revolution.  Long may he reign.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on November 13, 2020, 05:53:06 PM
Quote from: DrGonzo on November 13, 2020, 05:52:09 PM
If anybody had offered me 5 wins from the first 7 games this year I would have, not only, bitten their hands off but possibly have gnawed mightily on their calves and nibbled lightly around their ears.  Dean has brought a breath of fresh air to this club that has been missing since the Brian Little revolution.  Long may he reign.

Yes.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Monty on November 13, 2020, 05:54:20 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on November 13, 2020, 05:53:06 PM
Quote from: DrGonzo on November 13, 2020, 05:52:09 PM
If anybody had offered me 5 wins from the first 7 games this year I would have, not only, bitten their hands off but possibly have gnawed mightily on their calves and nibbled lightly around their ears.  Dean has brought a breath of fresh air to this club that has been missing since the Brian Little revolution.  Long may he reign.

Yes.

Uh-huh.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on November 13, 2020, 06:01:59 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on November 13, 2020, 05:53:06 PM
Quote from: DrGonzo on November 13, 2020, 05:52:09 PM
If anybody had offered me 5 wins from the first 7 games this year I would have, not only, bitten their hands off but possibly have gnawed mightily on their calves and nibbled lightly around their ears.  Dean has brought a breath of fresh air to this club that has been missing since the Brian Little revolution.  Long may he reign.

Yes.

I agree with Sexual Ealing.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on November 13, 2020, 06:19:10 PM
Quote from: jcsutv on November 13, 2020, 05:34:10 PM
Quote from: paul_e on November 13, 2020, 05:20:03 PM
Quote from: mr underhill on November 13, 2020, 02:28:44 PM
Yet again Dave W you have got it spectacularly wrong - my comment  earlier was nothing to do with an emotion state and everything to do with fact.

How is it a fact? It led to a goal, that the goal was disallowed doesn't mean the tactic didn't work, it just means it didn't result in the goal it very easily could've. Does a player not count as having given away a penalty if it gets missed?

I’m not convinced it is a great tactic but it did work this week.

I like it. Teams that don't do it are the equivalent of that misery-arse in the pub who when he breaks in a game of pool only knocks two balls out of the pack.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on November 18, 2020, 07:50:20 AM
I was just talking to my Daughter about the last time we saw Villa play live,
it was was the Wembley final against Man City

we both said the team we have now would have beaten City on that day
not saying we are better than City now but they didn’t overrun us that day and with the extra quality we have now we’d have won that cup

Only saying this because we have the team in the making to start believing we can win trophies again
we really do need to put something in the trophy cabinet in the next few years

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OCD on November 18, 2020, 12:13:50 PM
Just need to add some strength in depth to add cover and competition for places.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: purpletrousers on November 20, 2020, 01:45:27 AM
Quote from: Monty on November 13, 2020, 05:54:20 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on November 13, 2020, 05:53:06 PM
Quote from: DrGonzo on November 13, 2020, 05:52:09 PM
If anybody had offered me 5 wins from the first 7 games this year I would have, not only, bitten their hands off but possibly have gnawed mightily on their calves and nibbled lightly around their ears.  Dean has brought a breath of fresh air to this club that has been missing since the Brian Little revolution.  Long may he reign.

Yes.

Uh-huh.

oh yeah
Always there to confuse and fool you
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OCD on December 07, 2020, 12:31:13 PM
Good article in the Athletic on the upside of using a small squad -

There’s a statistic Dean Smith will forever be in awe of: Aston Villa winning the First Division title in 1981 by using just 14 players.

It’s an incredible achievement — almost unbelievable, really — and will never be repeated unless there’s an alteration to the game as implausible as the feat in discussion.

Members of that famous side, who would go on to win the European Cup the following year, recall tales of playing with bumps and bruises on pitches that were sometimes frozen and other times carrying standing water.

But for the 90-minute format, where 11 players take on another 11 players in a bid to outscore each other, it’s football a million miles away from how we know it today.

Footballers rarely play with injuries or on pitches that are likely to lead to injury these days, and managers, of course, like to take full advantage of their 25-man Premier League squad, as well as their crop of emerging youngsters. Liverpool used 24 players in their most recent title-winning season, for example, and have already fielded 23 difference faces in this campaign.

The game has dramatically changed, yet the same benefits can be gained today as they did all those years ago by sticking with a small group of players who get to know each other that little bit better than their rivals.

Villa have found themselves operating with a core group of 13 players this season and while they won’t be repeating the heroics of those who wore a claret-and-blue shirt 40 years ago, they could still end up reaping some rewards.

“When you play every game with the same players, you quickly learn where to help out your team-mate in areas of weakness or where to get the most out of one of your strengths,” Dennis Mortimer, one of seven ever-present players in the 1981 title-winning team, tells The Athletic.

“Our strength was as a team. We all realised what we did and didn’t do well, and over time, we were able to use that when we needed it the most.”

There are other examples of how sticking with a tried and trusted side works in the long run.

When discussing Leicester City’s title-winning season in 2015-16, where the champions favoured a particular starting XI but still ended up using 23 players in total, boss Claudio Ranieri said: “Why do I have to change? Yes, I am Tinkerman but I am not stupid.”

Wolves boss Nuno Espirito Santo also prefers a small squad and explained his reasons last season, saying: “It’s our idea of having a strong and compact squad that allows us to make good decisions. If it’s the same players, over and over again, training together, passing the ball to each other, timing their runs; all these small details that can help, so a deep knowledge of your team-mates it really helps with the tasks he has to do. It’s our philosophy.“

Of course, it’s easy to highlight the success stories but less so when a team is struggling.

Villa flew out of the traps this season, winning the first four league games — but have since lost four of the last five. Still, they have used the fewest amount of players (18) in the Premier League this season, only four bodies more than that mighty lot of 1981, and the season is only nine games old.

Admittedly, though, Ahmed Elmohamady (35 minutes), Marvelous Nakamba (13), Jacob Ramsey (14), Anwar El Ghazi (35) and Keinan Davis (28) haven’t started a game and are very much bit-part players.

Villa find themselves leaning heavily on a small group of 13. The goalkeeper, Emi Martinez, has started all nine Premier League games so far, as have the back four of Matty Cash, Ezri Konsa, Tyrone Mings and Matt Targett, with Douglas Luiz as the holding midfielder, John McGinn in another midfield position, Jack Grealish on the left wing and Ollie Watkins up front.

That leaves one midfield position available — where, if fit, Ross Barkley plays, and if not, is filled by Conor Hourihane — and the right wing, where Trezeguet has started eight out of nine games, with Bertrand Traore adding an alternative option.

Villa have only changed players in the two positions mentioned above. They have also made the fewest amount of changes (four) to their starting line-ups in the Premier League. So, how do they start making those limited changes count in a 4-3-3 system that rarely changes?

Pundit Danny Murphy referred back to when Leicester were able to master their choice of formation — a 4-4-2 system — in 2015-16, telling the BBC: “For it to work well, you need to develop little partnerships all over the pitch. For example, the relationship between the right-back and right midfielder has to be spot on. The best example I can think of that in the past 25 years is at Manchester United, when they had Gary Neville and David Beckham.”

Villa need to find those partnerships of their own in their own system.

Konsa and Mings have shown signs of promise but the defending in general over the past few games has been disappointing, with Villa looking vulnerable at set pieces. Cash and Trezeguet haven’t been as solid down the right side, either.

Barkley’s expected return within the next fortnight will help in attacking areas and certainly make Villa more of a goal threat. The way he was linking up with Grealish before his injury was both exciting and impressive but there needs to be other success stories on the pitch, too.

In this period leading up to Christmas and before the transfer window opens, Villa will continue to stick it out with a bunch of familiar faces. In the 2-1 defeat at West Ham, there was no striker or centre-half on the substitutes bench. With Kortney Hause and Bjorn Engels out injured, defensive reinforcements are thin. The attacking areas of the squad are also limited and ideally need addressing in the next transfer window, even if Barkley and Wesley are scheduled to return in the not-so-distant future.

Four defeats in five suggests Villa are wobbling but they have only lost by a single goal in three of those games and have been on the end of controversial stoppage-time VAR decisions in the last two games.

Villa were also impressive last time out, so can they start turning around results and learning from each other’s mistakes? Smith certainly thinks so and believes his side are stronger than last season.

“We are definitely better,” says Smith. “I have said before; you come into the first season in the Premier League and I felt we had five top players at the time and an opportunity for others to grow.

“Now, this second season, I feel we have eight or nine top players and others who can grow. It takes time. You have to be in the Premier League for three or four years before you can grow that squad to being experienced.”
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: itbrvilla on December 10, 2020, 11:21:04 AM
I think Dean is featured on Football Focus this Saturday
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 10, 2020, 12:59:54 PM
I think we really need to stop the rot on Saturday, as otherwise what looked like a good beginning to the season from Smith and the team starts to look distinctly less so. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on December 10, 2020, 02:05:54 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 10, 2020, 12:59:54 PM
I think we really need to stop the rot on Saturday, as otherwise what looked like a good beginning to the season from Smith and the team starts to look distinctly less so. 
There's also the loss of psychological confidence into a more pessimistic mindset amongst players when the straights wins become straight losses. We need to turn this around before we move into the quick-fire run of Xmas / New Year games.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dave P on December 13, 2020, 10:17:24 AM
I just put in the Wolves post match thread that it’s so refreshing that being a man down away from home in a tight game doesn’t mean shutting up shop. We have reaped rewards overall with Dean’s tactics and bravery and long may it continue. If he continues this philosophy with better players year after year, then we could be on the cusp of something special.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on December 13, 2020, 10:22:12 AM
Quote from: Dave P on December 13, 2020, 10:17:24 AM
I just put in the Wolves post match thread that it’s so refreshing that being a man down away from home in a tight game doesn’t mean shutting up shop. We have reaped rewards overall with Dean’s tactics and bravery and long may it continue. If he continues this philosophy with better players year after year, then we could be on the cusp of something special.

That's twice this season we've won away in stoppage time by attacking rather than holding on for a point. It might cost us a defeat next time but it's still the best approach.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Hookeysmith on December 13, 2020, 10:49:03 AM
100% agree

Compare that to the teams put out by McCleish and Bruce I would take this everytime
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AV82EC on December 13, 2020, 11:28:56 AM
Old Villa going back as long as I remember would have been happy with a point each at West Ham and Wolves. New Villa seem to be try and win the game and end up win one, lose one. Net result +1 points.

 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: West Derby Villan on December 13, 2020, 01:37:30 PM
Certainly agree with that, so refreshing to watch an attacking strategy at the end of a game. As said before reaping the benefits with 6 points instead of 2. Well played Dean Smith
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on December 13, 2020, 02:10:34 PM
Quote from: Dave P on December 13, 2020, 10:17:24 AM
I just put in the Wolves post match thread that it’s so refreshing that being a man down away from home in a tight game doesn’t mean shutting up shop. We have reaped rewards overall with Dean’s tactics and bravery and long may it continue. If he continues this philosophy with better players year after year, then we could be on the cusp of something special.

Yep. He could have easily thrown on a defensive midfielder when Doug went off, but he stuck with what he had and it paid off. A lot of credit due there.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on December 13, 2020, 02:18:59 PM
Yes! Dean Smith in!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on December 13, 2020, 02:28:27 PM
I want Dean in the Villa.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: nigel on December 13, 2020, 02:46:56 PM
Quote from: Clampy on December 13, 2020, 02:10:34 PM
Quote from: Dave P on December 13, 2020, 10:17:24 AM
I just put in the Wolves post match thread that it’s so refreshing that being a man down away from home in a tight game doesn’t mean shutting up shop. We have reaped rewards overall with Dean’s tactics and bravery and long may it continue. If he continues this philosophy with better players year after year, then we could be on the cusp of something special.

Yep. He could have easily thrown on a defensive midfielder when Doug went off, but he stuck with what he had and it paid off. A lot of credit due there.

Which a lot on here we’re calling for, too.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: manic-road on December 21, 2020, 05:11:49 PM
Really happy with the way Dean Smith and the coaches have improved the team, every Villa player that I can think of has improved since he has been at the club, and we are now witnessing very good performances that two years ago were unthinkable.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on December 21, 2020, 10:27:23 PM
With almost  1/3 of the season gone Dean is doing better than every Coach except Klopp and he has already humiliated him in the 1 to 1 encounter. Well played sir.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on December 21, 2020, 10:40:08 PM
Quote from: manic-road on December 21, 2020, 05:11:49 PM
Really happy with the way Dean Smith and the coaches have improved the team, every Villa player that I can think of has improved since he has been at the club, and we are now witnessing very good performances that two years ago were unthinkable.

I'm not sure they've peaked yet either.  More to come from SJM, Watkins, Konsa, Cash etc.  Add to the squad now and we will be easily top ten.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mellin on December 21, 2020, 10:54:07 PM
I think we are top 10 already. Top 5 (Arsenal are gone) out of reach for now. We're on a par with Leicester, Southampton and Everton imo. Next goal is to surpass them.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on December 21, 2020, 11:06:13 PM
Quote from: manic-road on December 21, 2020, 05:11:49 PM
Really happy with the way Dean Smith and the coaches have improved the team, every Villa player that I can think of has improved since he has been at the club, and we are now witnessing very good performances that two years ago were unthinkable.

That's something else that struck me today - there's not a player in the squad who isn't better now than they were last season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on December 21, 2020, 11:40:51 PM
Last season feels so very long ago, yet 12 months ago we were still awaiting the relief cavalry charge of Baston, Drinkwater and Samatta to heave into sight.

Even more recently, imagine going up to the sorry bunch at half time after Konsa had got trod on by Fernandes and saying, "keep at it, lads, in under three months' time you'll be sticking seven past liverpool". What a ride this is!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Monty on December 21, 2020, 11:43:16 PM
As good a time as any to reaffirm how brilliantly he's doing, and how daft he's making a lot of our comments on this thread look. I for one have never been happier to be wrong about a manager.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 21, 2020, 11:57:18 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on December 21, 2020, 11:06:13 PM
Quote from: manic-road on December 21, 2020, 05:11:49 PM
Really happy with the way Dean Smith and the coaches have improved the team, every Villa player that I can think of has improved since he has been at the club, and we are now witnessing very good performances that two years ago were unthinkable.

That's something else that struck me today - there's not a player in the squad who isn't better now than they were last season.

Mainly due to limited playing time, but I don't think you can argue that Nakamba, Davis or Guilbert have improved. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on December 22, 2020, 12:15:50 AM
Away, we have a perfect game plan at the moment. There are times at home when we are too open and in general our set piece defending could be improved a bit. Overall he's made me look a mug though and we've come on this season more than I expected with him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on December 22, 2020, 09:09:53 AM
As someone mentioned recently, I wish our current lot could play Man City in a League Cup Final now. Our first trophy in 25 years would be there for the taking.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on December 22, 2020, 09:27:19 AM
That has to be the biggest credit to Smith and his coaches, the improvement of the players. Matt Taggart has been superb all season and looking like the price tag he came with. I thought he did get unjustified stick at times last season as he was also one of our best attacking outlets alongside Jack at times. However his all round game is just so much better now. He seems much tougher and braver too and he’s winning high balls quite often.

Just image on this basis how good Cash and Dougie will be next season!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 22, 2020, 09:31:27 AM
i am Ok with not being in the League Cup this year, would love us to do something special in the FA Cup though.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 22, 2020, 09:32:11 AM
Hopefully Luiz will reach his full potential here rather than back at Man City.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 22, 2020, 09:35:28 AM
Quote from: Risso on December 21, 2020, 11:57:18 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on December 21, 2020, 11:06:13 PM
Quote from: manic-road on December 21, 2020, 05:11:49 PM
Really happy with the way Dean Smith and the coaches have improved the team, every Villa player that I can think of has improved since he has been at the club, and we are now witnessing very good performances that two years ago were unthinkable.

That's something else that struck me today - there's not a player in the squad who isn't better now than they were last season.

Mainly due to limited playing time, but I don't think you can argue that Nakamba, Davis or Guilbert have improved.
and Wes hasnt been pulling up trees either.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: DB on December 22, 2020, 09:55:57 AM
He really isn’t getting the plaudits he deserves, proving a lot of people wrong (inc. me) how he kept us up and built on that into this season.
The press and pundits seem still to be w*nking all over Bielsa, when you look at what Smith has done in a shorter time at us, it is just daft. Look at Leeds’ defensive record this season, not very good is it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on December 22, 2020, 10:02:39 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 22, 2020, 09:35:28 AM
Quote from: Risso on December 21, 2020, 11:57:18 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on December 21, 2020, 11:06:13 PM
Quote from: manic-road on December 21, 2020, 05:11:49 PM
Really happy with the way Dean Smith and the coaches have improved the team, every Villa player that I can think of has improved since he has been at the club, and we are now witnessing very good performances that two years ago were unthinkable.

That's something else that struck me today - there's not a player in the squad who isn't better now than they were last season.

Mainly due to limited playing time, but I don't think you can argue that Nakamba, Davis or Guilbert have improved.
and Wes hasnt been pulling up trees either.
Bit unfair on Wes. He only had a few months in a team finding it's feet in this league. If I remember right we was not convinced by Dougie early on either.

What we have seen with all the players though is minutes on the pitch do really count. The problem with Davis (ignoring the fact he can't hit a barn door) is always bloody injured.

There must be something we have all missed with Freddie or maybe if Cash hadn't become available we'd have seen more of him this season. I thought Nakamba did well the other night, but he's nowhere near the standard of Dougie, which is not a criticism.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nev on December 22, 2020, 10:06:19 AM
Yeah, no.

Let them blather on about Leeds, suits me. The less hype, the less scrutiny the better. We can just get on with the job, what used to rile me just makes me grin now. It was all about that fat twat on Sunday. We just stolled in, took the points and strolled out again leaving Sam stood in his Boiler Coat and Elvis tribute hair looking crestfallen while the crestfallen (national) media looked back at him.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Footy-Vill on December 22, 2020, 10:07:57 AM
Look how Smith has moved forward and used Lockdown and project restart to greatness and look at Chris Wilder and Sheff U since that period.

Both English managers who have gone complete different directions
Smith is the upward curve manager
A progressive coach who I back 100%

I would put him ahead of Lampard as now the best English club coach.

Up the Villa
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on December 22, 2020, 11:17:33 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on December 22, 2020, 09:35:28 AM
Quote from: Risso on December 21, 2020, 11:57:18 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on December 21, 2020, 11:06:13 PM
Quote from: manic-road on December 21, 2020, 05:11:49 PM
Really happy with the way Dean Smith and the coaches have improved the team, every Villa player that I can think of has improved since he has been at the club, and we are now witnessing very good performances that two years ago were unthinkable.

That's something else that struck me today - there's not a player in the squad who isn't better now than they were last season.

Mainly due to limited playing time, but I don't think you can argue that Nakamba, Davis or Guilbert have improved.
and Wes hasnt been pulling up trees either.

And Heaton hasn't made a single save.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on December 22, 2020, 11:36:32 AM
Quote from: Ian J on December 22, 2020, 09:27:19 AM
That has to be the biggest credit to Smith and his coaches, the improvement of the players. Matt Taggart has been superb all season and looking like the price tag he came with. I thought he did get unjustified stick at times last season as he was also one of our best attacking outlets alongside Jack at times. However his all round game is just so much better now. He seems much tougher and braver too and he’s winning high balls quite often.
Just image on this basis how good Cash and Dougie will be next season!
Why would Dougie need another season to prove how good he is?
And what about Traore and Watkins? - are they not going to get the 2nd season bounce that we've seen this season with Trez and Targett?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on December 22, 2020, 11:37:03 AM
Biggest bonus of the last 2 games has been to see the re-emergence of McGinn.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on December 22, 2020, 11:52:59 AM
Quote from: Drummond on December 22, 2020, 11:17:33 AM
And Heaton hasn't made a single save.
But still not conceded a single goal this season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on December 22, 2020, 11:59:03 AM
Quote from: Mister E on December 22, 2020, 11:36:32 AM
Quote from: Ian J on December 22, 2020, 09:27:19 AM
That has to be the biggest credit to Smith and his coaches, the improvement of the players. Matt Taggart has been superb all season and looking like the price tag he came with. I thought he did get unjustified stick at times last season as he was also one of our best attacking outlets alongside Jack at times. However his all round game is just so much better now. He seems much tougher and braver too and he’s winning high balls quite often.
Just image on this basis how good Cash and Dougie will be next season!
Why would Dougie need another season to prove how good he is?
And what about Traore and Watkins? - are they not going to get the 2nd season bounce that we've seen this season with Trez and Targett?
I’m not knocking them at all, I think Cash is great and Dougie is absolutely brilliant. All I meant was they are superb now, so image how good they could be. If we carry on the same trajectory it’s going to be very exciting. I really hope we can nail down Dougie here though, I’d hate to lose him to Man City.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SheffieldVillain on December 22, 2020, 12:13:11 PM
A clip from Villa's dementia cafe with Dean as special guest. Brilliant scheme and Deano is an absolutely top bloke.
https://twitter.com/AVFCOfficial/status/1341353794156646400
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: BC Villain on December 22, 2020, 12:46:04 PM
Quote from: SheffieldVillain on December 22, 2020, 12:13:11 PM
A clip from Villa's dementia cafe with Dean as special guest. Brilliant scheme and Deano is an absolutely top bloke.
https://twitter.com/AVFCOfficial/status/1341353794156646400

Class act.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on December 22, 2020, 04:47:05 PM
Quote from: SheffieldVillain on December 22, 2020, 12:13:11 PM
A clip from Villa's dementia cafe with Dean as special guest. Brilliant scheme and Deano is an absolutely top bloke.
https://twitter.com/AVFCOfficial/status/1341353794156646400
It is indeed a brilliant scheme and the guy (Martin)  doing all the talking with Dean in that clip is my elder brother !
Nice one Dean for taking time out to talk to the guys - it was very much appreciated
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave shelley on December 22, 2020, 06:17:06 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on December 22, 2020, 04:47:05 PM
Quote from: SheffieldVillain on December 22, 2020, 12:13:11 PM
A clip from Villa's dementia cafe with Dean as special guest. Brilliant scheme and Deano is an absolutely top bloke.
https://twitter.com/AVFCOfficial/status/1341353794156646400
It is indeed a brilliant scheme and the guy (Martin)  doing all the talking with Dean in that clip is my elder brother !
Nice one Dean for taking time out to talk to the guys - it was very much appreciated

Like.  You should be proud of him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on December 22, 2020, 06:35:17 PM
Quote from: dave shelley on December 22, 2020, 06:17:06 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on December 22, 2020, 04:47:05 PM
Quote from: SheffieldVillain on December 22, 2020, 12:13:11 PM
A clip from Villa's dementia cafe with Dean as special guest. Brilliant scheme and Deano is an absolutely top bloke.
https://twitter.com/AVFCOfficial/status/1341353794156646400
It is indeed a brilliant scheme and the guy (Martin)  doing all the talking with Dean in that clip is my elder brother !
Nice one Dean for taking time out to talk to the guys - it was very much appreciated

Like.  You should be proud of him.

I am Dave... he has been through a lot and his current mental health is a tough one to bear
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT Villan on December 22, 2020, 06:38:23 PM
Quote from: SheffieldVillain on December 22, 2020, 12:13:11 PM
A clip from Villa's dementia cafe with Dean as special guest. Brilliant scheme and Deano is an absolutely top bloke.
https://twitter.com/AVFCOfficial/status/1341353794156646400

What a lovely thing to do...is someone chopping onions as I appear to have a tear in my eye ?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Footy-Vill on December 22, 2020, 09:08:26 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on December 22, 2020, 04:47:05 PM
Quote from: SheffieldVillain on December 22, 2020, 12:13:11 PM
A clip from Villa's dementia cafe with Dean as special guest. Brilliant scheme and Deano is an absolutely top bloke.
https://twitter.com/AVFCOfficial/status/1341353794156646400
It is indeed a brilliant scheme and the guy (Martin)  doing all the talking with Dean in that clip is my elder brother !
Nice one Dean for taking time out to talk to the guys - it was very much appreciated
Thanks Sheff V
Just seen this. Wonderful all round. Dean Smith such a credit to Villa.
All the best to Martin and yourself vcm.
The scheme seems great too and it's very good to see and hear the interaction.

Sending warmth and regards.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: West Derby Villan on December 23, 2020, 09:39:10 AM
Quote from: SheffieldVillain on December 22, 2020, 12:13:11 PM
A clip from Villa's dementia cafe with Dean as special guest. Brilliant scheme and Deano is an absolutely top bloke.
https://twitter.com/AVFCOfficial/status/1341353794156646400

Thanks SV for posting, very moving
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mcgrath_85 on December 23, 2020, 09:54:04 AM
Quote from: Ian J on December 22, 2020, 11:59:03 AM
Quote from: Mister E on December 22, 2020, 11:36:32 AM
Quote from: Ian J on December 22, 2020, 09:27:19 AM
That has to be the biggest credit to Smith and his coaches, the improvement of the players. Matt Taggart has been superb all season and looking like the price tag he came with. I thought he did get unjustified stick at times last season as he was also one of our best attacking outlets alongside Jack at times. However his all round game is just so much better now. He seems much tougher and braver too and he’s winning high balls quite often.
Just image on this basis how good Cash and Dougie will be next season!
Why would Dougie need another season to prove how good he is?
And what about Traore and Watkins? - are they not going to get the 2nd season bounce that we've seen this season with Trez and Targett?
I’m not knocking them at all, I think Cash is great and Dougie is absolutely brilliant. All I meant was they are superb now, so image how good they could be. If we carry on the same trajectory it’s going to be very exciting. I really hope we can nail down Dougie here though, I’d hate to lose him to Man City.
Nothing was mentioned about Dougie having to ‘prove’ himself. You’ve just assumed that’s what Ian J meant for some reason. You appear to want to find the negative in peoples positive or positively critical posts. Then you start a counter argument totally missing the original point. It’s getting tiresome.
It’s more than reasonable to assume that younger players will continue to to develop year on year, particularly in the environment that we have around the club currently. 

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: nigel on December 23, 2020, 02:55:35 PM
Brilliant clip

Dean just seems so comfortable talking to normal people. You could imagine bumping into him at a pub and having a chat like you'd known him for years.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on December 23, 2020, 04:56:31 PM
There must be those who think that about Remi Garde...
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on December 23, 2020, 05:34:04 PM
Quote from: Ian J on December 22, 2020, 11:59:03 AM
Quote from: Mister E on December 22, 2020, 11:36:32 AM
Quote from: Ian J on December 22, 2020, 09:27:19 AM
That has to be the biggest credit to Smith and his coaches, the improvement of the players. Matt Taggart has been superb all season and looking like the price tag he came with. I thought he did get unjustified stick at times last season as he was also one of our best attacking outlets alongside Jack at times. However his all round game is just so much better now. He seems much tougher and braver too and he’s winning high balls quite often.
Just image on this basis how good Cash and Dougie will be next season!
Why would Dougie need another season to prove how good he is?
And what about Traore and Watkins? - are they not going to get the 2nd season bounce that we've seen this season with Trez and Targett?
I’m not knocking them at all, I think Cash is great and Dougie is absolutely brilliant. All I meant was they are superb now, so image how good they could be. If we carry on the same trajectory it’s going to be very exciting. I really hope we can nail down Dougie here though, I’d hate to lose him to Man City.
Cool - thanks for clarifying. I just wondered why you'd selected those two, but I understand now.
I agree it's all massively positive!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: RamboandBruno on December 23, 2020, 06:16:17 PM
Quote from: SheffieldVillain on December 22, 2020, 12:13:11 PM
A clip from Villa's dementia cafe with Dean as special guest. Brilliant scheme and Deano is an absolutely top bloke.
https://twitter.com/AVFCOfficial/status/1341353794156646400

Lovely clip. And indeed brought a tear to the eye. I’m am utterly proud that dean is our manager, in the cut and thrust of the money machine that is the premier league, to have a seeming every man, a supporter and a really good coach as our gaffer, is actually fairly inspiring. Can you imagine for one minute if we won the FA Cup with him in charge and Jack as captain, my God it would literally be never ever forgotten. UTV and merry christmas
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: clash city rocker on December 23, 2020, 06:30:43 PM
Quote from: RamboandBruno on December 23, 2020, 06:16:17 PM
Quote from: SheffieldVillain on December 22, 2020, 12:13:11 PM
A clip from Villa's dementia cafe with Dean as special guest. Brilliant scheme and Deano is an absolutely top bloke.
https://twitter.com/AVFCOfficial/status/1341353794156646400

Lovely clip. And indeed brought a tear to the eye. I’m am utterly proud that dean is our manager, in the cut and thrust of the money machine that is the premier league, to have a seeming every man, a supporter and a really good coach as our gaffer, is actually fairly inspiring. Can you imagine for one minute if we won the FA Cup with him in charge and Jack as captain, my God it would literally be never ever forgotten. UTV and merry christmas

I think that although he is a prem manager he actually gets real life.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 23, 2020, 08:58:15 PM
Quote from: eamonn on December 23, 2020, 04:56:31 PM
There must be those who think that about Remi Garde...

I actually think that about the likes of McLeish and Steve Bruce. Great football men who had fantastic playing careers and for all their faults as managers have some very interesting experiences at all their various clubs so would have no issue sitting down to an hour listening to their thoughts on their career.

Would pass on Paul Lambert though.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 25, 2020, 01:54:21 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on December 23, 2020, 08:58:15 PM
Quote from: eamonn on December 23, 2020, 04:56:31 PM
There must be those who think that about Remi Garde...

I actually think that about the likes of McLeish and Steve Bruce. Great football men who had fantastic playing careers and for all their faults as managers have some very interesting experiences at all their various clubs so would have no issue sitting down to an hour listening to their thoughts on their career.

Would pass on Paul Lambert though.
and David O’Leary.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on December 25, 2020, 09:28:44 PM
Agreed. You'd have a great session in a pub with Bruce or Big'Eck. Dolly and Garde might be a bit of a struggle. MON...he'd probably throw his Guinness in your face at the first hint of criticism you threw at him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on December 25, 2020, 09:59:32 PM
Of all the Villa managers I've spoken to, the one I'd most like to talk football with is BFR and the one I'd most like to have a pint with would be McLeish. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 25, 2020, 10:22:24 PM
Quote from: eamonn on December 25, 2020, 09:28:44 PM
Agreed. You'd have a great session in a pub with Bruce or Big'Eck. Dolly and Garde might be a bit of a struggle. MON...he'd probably throw his Guinness in your face at the first hint of criticism you threw at him.

O'Neill would spend about two hours saying "Brian Clough said this..." That said surprised he hasn't published a book on his time in management as would be some interesting stuff in there.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: adrenachrome on December 26, 2020, 01:18:06 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on December 25, 2020, 09:59:32 PM
Of all the Villa managers I've spoken to, the one I'd most like to talk football with is BFR and the one I'd most like to have a pint with would be McLeish. 

There was a period of time when I regularly bumped into BFR at the Lickey Hills and Clent Hills while walking the dogs, and at Barnt Green cricket club.  He was always up for a chat about football or cricket.   
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 26, 2020, 09:27:42 AM
Quote from: adrenachrome on December 26, 2020, 01:18:06 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on December 25, 2020, 09:59:32 PM
Of all the Villa managers I've spoken to, the one I'd most like to talk football with is BFR and the one I'd most like to have a pint with would be McLeish. 

There was a period of time when I regularly bumped into BFR at the Lickey Hills and Clent Hills while walking the dogs, and at Barnt Green cricket club.  He was always up for a chat about football or cricket.   

I saw BFR in the Lickey Hills a couple of times, once just before the League Cup final.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OCD on December 26, 2020, 09:32:52 AM
I wonder if anything has been said about making a challenge for the title. May sound ridiculous but if we won our games in hand, we would be 3 points behind Liverpool; our away form is excellent...if they can maintain that and start winning home games, they can go far. Just the ambition of discussing it amongst eachother would be a big statement of intent.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on December 26, 2020, 09:37:14 AM
I just don't think we're consistent enough, or have the squad to mount a title challenge.  That's not a criticism as we're miles better than last year, and look competitive in every match, when mostly last season we stunk the place out. If we're even in with a shout of top 4 going into the last weeks, that would be unbelievable progress.  Be interesting to see what the owners' approach is in January.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on December 26, 2020, 10:24:27 AM
I have a bet on us to win the league every year. Odds much reduced this season. We obviously won't win the league.

I've also seen BFR out and about in Barnt Green. He's very good with my nephew. My nephew is white, however.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: martyn ellis on December 26, 2020, 12:10:48 PM
I have a very good friend in Newcastkke who takes his dog for a walk and often meets Steve Bruce on the same route with his own dog. They chat, briefly, about their dogs and other bits and pieces all unrelated to football. Proper down-to-earth by all accounts. Approachable, with none of the airs and graces one sometimes finds, a thoroughly decent bloke. I think that's what most people felt on here, even when we weren't particularly happy about his on-field tactics.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on December 26, 2020, 12:19:17 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on December 26, 2020, 10:24:27 AM
I have a bet on us to win the league every year. Odds much reduced this season. We obviously won't win the league.

I've also seen BFR out and about in Barnt Green. He's very good with my nephew. My nephew is white, however.

That's totally uncalled for.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on December 26, 2020, 12:20:18 PM
Why?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on December 26, 2020, 12:22:13 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on December 26, 2020, 12:20:18 PM
Why?

Take a wild guess and stop being obtuse.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on December 26, 2020, 12:22:32 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on December 26, 2020, 12:20:18 PM
Why?

What was the point in even typing that? That's just stupid.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on December 26, 2020, 12:23:09 PM
Why?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on December 26, 2020, 12:26:53 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on December 26, 2020, 12:23:09 PM
Why?

Grow up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on December 26, 2020, 12:30:15 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 26, 2020, 09:37:14 AM
I just don't think we're consistent enough, or have the squad to mount a title challenge.  That's not a criticism as we're miles better than last year, and look competitive in every match, when mostly last season we stunk the place out. If we're even in with a shout of top 4 going into the last weeks, that would be unbelievable progress.  Be interesting to see what the owners' approach is in January.

I agree about the inconsistency results wise but apart from the Leeds game, we could have well won every game so it's not been for the lack of trying. This season really is a cracking chance for us to finish quite high up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on December 26, 2020, 12:33:17 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on December 26, 2020, 12:26:53 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on December 26, 2020, 12:23:09 PM
Why?

Grow up.

I can't be bothered with an argument, but we're all fine with known, self identifying, racists now?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on December 26, 2020, 12:37:15 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on December 26, 2020, 12:33:17 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on December 26, 2020, 12:26:53 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on December 26, 2020, 12:23:09 PM
Why?

Grow up.

I can't be bothered with an argument, but we're all fine with known, self identifying, racists now?

No one loved Big Ron more than me, but aside from his well known outburst I'd heard him playing to the racist crowd at a BRMB event at the Drakes Drum years before, laughing about having to coax Earl Barret out of a tree to sign for us, so I don't think you need to apologise at all for what you said.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on December 26, 2020, 12:37:57 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on December 26, 2020, 12:33:17 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on December 26, 2020, 12:26:53 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on December 26, 2020, 12:23:09 PM
Why?

Grow up.

I can't be bothered with an argument, but we're all fine with known, self identifying, racists now?

I think Regis, Cunningham, Batson and Big Dalian Atkinson to name but a few would disagree. I'd go away and have a think about things before you make even more of a twat of yourself.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on December 26, 2020, 12:39:56 PM
Quote from: Clampy on December 26, 2020, 12:37:57 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on December 26, 2020, 12:33:17 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on December 26, 2020, 12:26:53 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on December 26, 2020, 12:23:09 PM
Why?

Grow up.

I can't be bothered with an argument, but we're all fine with known, self identifying, racists now?

I think Regis, Cunningham, Batson and Big Dalian Atkinson to name but a few would disagree. I'd go away and have a think about things before you make even more of a twat of yourself.

Perhaps you might benefit from taking your own advice.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on December 26, 2020, 12:52:00 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on December 26, 2020, 12:33:17 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on December 26, 2020, 12:26:53 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on December 26, 2020, 12:23:09 PM
Why?

Grow up.

I can't be bothered with an argument, but we're all fine with known, self identifying, racists now?

That one's been done to death, and totally irrelevant.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OCD on December 26, 2020, 12:56:31 PM
Quote from: Risso on December 26, 2020, 09:37:14 AM
I just don't think we're consistent enough, or have the squad to mount a title challenge.  That's not a criticism as we're miles better than last year, and look competitive in every match, when mostly last season we stunk the place out. If we're even in with a shout of top 4 going into the last weeks, that would be unbelievable progress.  Be interesting to see what the owners' approach is in January.

I agree. We've been pretty consistent away but not at home. I'm not looking to make an outlandish statement, more asking a hypothetical question of whether the players and coaches would be talking themselves up and telling eachother that if they did start becoming more consistent, especially at home, whether they can put themselves into the equation. People are talking about Man Utd putting a challenge together. For me, it would be a massive change in attitude if behind the scenes if we were saying if they can be talking about a challenge, why can't we. Not having midweek games is a huge advantage that we have over them.

I think we've started to see a shift in mindset. What I'm really looking for is for that to grow very quickly. Leicester also set a precedent that should be having the players say if they can do it, so can we.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on December 26, 2020, 01:00:03 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on December 26, 2020, 12:52:00 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on December 26, 2020, 12:33:17 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on December 26, 2020, 12:26:53 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on December 26, 2020, 12:23:09 PM
Why?

Grow up.

I can't be bothered with an argument, but we're all fine with known, self identifying, racists now?

That one's been done to death, and totally irrelevant.

This place, while generally excellent, can be really disappointing at times.

And yes, I know what I can do if I don't like it etc.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on December 26, 2020, 01:00:56 PM
This is still reminding me of one of those transition seasons (think 1978-80 or 1991-92) where we can be brilliant one week, poor the next and improving all the time.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 26, 2020, 01:04:28 PM
Our inconsistency is all part of our evolution as you can have inconsistency both positively and negatively. Ours is positive because we have gone from being more consistently poor to being inconsistently good. Whereas say Arsenal on the other hand are going very much the opposite way. And generally these things don’t happen quickly. They take time to set in. That’s what is surprising about us or even Wolves. 2 years ago we are playing Championship football. Last season nearly went down. This season arguably challenging for European spot. It’s all a bit remarkable. I would argue therefore we are positively inconsistent and a path to being positively consistent.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on December 26, 2020, 01:08:01 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on December 26, 2020, 01:00:56 PM
This is still reminding me of one of those transition seasons (think 1978-80 or 1991-92) where we can be brilliant one week, poor the next and improving all the time.

I don't think we've been that poor though, apart from the Leeds game. Naïve at times but I wouldn't say poor. Even at 4 down against Southampton, we could have come back and got something. It's good that we can go into games feeling confident of winning.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 26, 2020, 01:16:03 PM
The one thing that can really mess up the transition process is qualifying for the horrible Europa League.
Teams seem to go backwards after Long run of  Channel 5 on a Thursday night.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KevinGage on December 26, 2020, 01:49:29 PM
If we did somehow manage to make it this season, we should -unlike Burnleh and other clubs who treated it as an inconvenience - be able to improve the squad sufficiently and cope with the extra demand.

Aston Villa should never snub their nose at European qualification.

Our last reasonable run in the competition gave us games such as Ajax and CSKA at home and Hamburg away. More of that please.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: clash city rocker on December 26, 2020, 02:11:46 PM
I never expected us to achieve this season what we have already achieved. Therein lies the problem. Expectations are so much higher at the moment. At the start of the season if someone had told me we would finish top half I would have snatched their hand off.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: darren woolley on December 26, 2020, 05:19:26 PM
Great win on his 100th game.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Footy-Vill on December 27, 2020, 08:42:35 AM
Quote from: darren woolley on December 26, 2020, 05:19:26 PM
Great win on his 100th game.

Best English coach ! Dean is the best !
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Deano's Mullet on December 27, 2020, 09:03:00 AM
Love Deano. It’s just positive vibes and unity from top to bottom at this club and I can’t remember it being like this before even in seasons when we actually won stuff (I’m on about
late eighties onwards, not the glory days of Rotterdam and the league title), there was always something to moan about or we never really pushed on but now the future seems incredibly exciting.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AV82EC on December 27, 2020, 09:37:35 AM
This guy has really worked hard to get his culture and his values into this squad. He seems to treat his players like adults, he values their input and the mentality he has engendered is infectious.

On the European qualification question, for those saying the UEFA Cup (let’s use its proper name) is a distraction need to stop listening to lazy pundits and media bollocks, there is 1 extra round of fixtures (2 games) which is hardly the stuff of nightmares.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sdwbvf on December 27, 2020, 09:51:25 AM
Chelsea and Arsenal taken it seriously - so should we.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mcgrath_85 on December 27, 2020, 01:10:50 PM
I see Steve is up to his old tricks again. Change the record.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55458977

So happy to have Deano!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on December 27, 2020, 01:19:55 PM
This is the football we were told Smith played when he first came
Front foot, attacking looking to take the game to every team

that’s why I was so disappointed last season when we didn’t
there is obviously reasons for that but this season is what we thought we were getting with bells on

still think Shakespeare was the missing ingredient
and I don’t say that to take anything away from Smith I’m a firm believer that great leaders delegate well and aren’t threatened by those around them

Smiths built a cracking backroom team around him, that might well be his biggest achievement in how we are doing this season
Well that and a load of better players obviously, but then it’s that team that brings those players in
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: algy on December 27, 2020, 02:16:25 PM
Quote from: john e on December 27, 2020, 01:19:55 PM
This is the football we were told Smith played when he first came
Front foot, attacking looking to take the game to every team

that’s why I was so disappointed last season when we didn’t
there is obviously reasons for that but this season is what we thought we were getting with bells on

still think Shakespeare was the missing ingredient
and I don’t say that to take anything away from Smith I’m a firm believer that great leaders delegate well and aren’t threatened by those around them

Smiths built a cracking backroom team around him, that might well be his biggest achievement in how we are doing this season
Well that and a load of better players obviously, but then it’s that team that brings those players in
I felt last season, we started off playing attacking football, then as it became clear that it wasn't working, we tried a few things out to tighten up which didn't really work. Finally it clicked just after lockdown. The summer recruitment had been excellent all round, both players, coaching, and backroom staff. We've not looked back this season, we've been able to reintroduce that attacking play, but with that little bit more quality - and as important confidence - knocking around the club.

Really excited about the club at the moment. It feels like we're on the cusp of something great. I honestly wouldn't put it past us to win the league this season, we're just that good. It's brilliant.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 27, 2020, 02:21:41 PM
Got the transfer market spot on last summer. As ever with us I wondered whether some of them would step up but what we got completely right and which DS has since mentioned last season is we massively lacked athleticism. All the top teams are all rapid in final third if you give them some space to run into and have a creator to feed the passes through.

We have that now and are light years ahead counter attacking as to what we were doing last year when it was snail pace if Jack wasn't on the ball.

Helped aswell conditioning of likes of Doug has improved and he can now last 90 minutes no problem. Strange sight to see Villa teams who actually end games more strongly than opposition now as last year and in many games in MON era we were out on our feet after 75 minutes and just clinging on for a point or games we were leading.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KevinGage on December 27, 2020, 02:22:02 PM
Quote from: john e on December 27, 2020, 01:19:55 PM


still think Shakespeare was the missing ingredient
and I don’t say that to take anything away from Smith I’m a firm believer that great leaders delegate well and aren’t threatened by those around them

Indeed. In contrast to O'Neill and other dinosaurs who spent a career giving jobs to their mates and never adapted their style.

He trusts O'Kelly, clearly. But was open to the board suggesting Terry and is happy to get input from an experienced coach at this level like Shakespeare. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 27, 2020, 02:27:25 PM
I also think he’s listened to those around him more. And accepted that we couldn’t just play the same way that was going to lead to our eventual relegation. We had to defensively disciplined first and use that as the platform to launch our attacks.

We needed those new players and the ones already at the club to become familiar with the overall style he wanted us to play in the PL but understand that with it comes an intense work rate far in excess of the levels we achieved in the Championship.

It’s a coming together of coaching, players becoming better and better players coming in all aligned on a specific way of doing things. And we also shouldn’t dismiss the impact of our owners and Purslow in all of this, who very quietly and with the minimum of fuss are doing their part behind the scenes.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 27, 2020, 02:48:35 PM
I think you have to look at what happens to teams that have. Europa cup run that are recent to European football. If the holy grail is the Champions league then focus on qualification for that has to be the priority rather than flying all over Europe to play Bratislava Shedbuilders in a meaningless competition.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on December 27, 2020, 03:28:26 PM
Can you imagine what Ollie Watkins felt like at half time knowing the team were looking at defending a 1 goal lead with 10 men

then the manager stands in front of everyone and says there is no one in the premier league that he would want more than Watkins to lead the line in this half

he must have felt 10ft tall and a massive boost to the rest of the team
we didn’t defend a 1 goal lead we came out and put a couple more past them

I’ve doubted Smith in  the past, and I probably will do at times in the future
But that was great leadership yesterday
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on December 27, 2020, 05:16:53 PM
Yeah, I really liked that too.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Monty on December 27, 2020, 10:45:26 PM
Here's the thing. There's understandably a lot of chat about Jack in the media. There's also much discussion of similar catalysts of overachievement - Vardy, Ward-Prowse, James, Rodgers, Hasenhuttl etc. But not a lot of love for Deano, weirdly.

Probably because he doesn't look or sound fashionable. A plain-faced middle-aged English bloke with a tracksuit jacket and a Midlands accent. Were he a 37-year-old former Austrian international with sculpted facial hair and designer overcoats he would no doubt be the most fashionable man in English football, rather than (in the media's eyes) the latest shade of the Jewell-Mowbray-Coleman-Lambert type of British managerial beige. Even Wilder was a 'proper character' associated with an eye-catching tactic; Dean is a nice, likeable guy who plays formations which everyone who read Inverting the Pyramid thinks of as old news.

But just look at the evidence. Nevermind the successes - the promotion, the cup final, the survival, the revival - just look at his record with individual players. The great coaches of Now (Pep Klopp Poch etc) are rightly praised for the way they improve the footballers they work with, not just technically but tactically and psychologically. Well, look at Dean's record at the Villa: Doug, McGinn, Mings, Konsa (!), Trezeguet, now AEG, and of course Jack (and I'd argue Wesley showed signs of real improvement pre-injury). This is the record of a seriously good coach, and those who doubted him - me, that posh-named preener on the Graun pod - all have to acknowledge that the prejudices were there, were wrong, and are looking genuinely daft right now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on December 27, 2020, 11:06:15 PM
Quote from: Monty on December 27, 2020, 10:45:26 PM
Here's the thing. There's understandably a lot of chat about Jack in the media. There's also much discussion of similar catalysts of overachievement - Vardy, Ward-Prowse, James, Rodgers, Hasenhuttl etc. But not a lot of love for Deano, weirdly.

Probably because he doesn't look or sound fashionable. A plain-faced middle-aged English bloke with a tracksuit jacket and a Midlands accent. Were he a 37-year-old former Austrian international with sculpted facial hair and designer overcoats he would no doubt be the most fashionable man in English football, rather than (in the media's eyes) the latest shade of the Jewell-Mowbray-Coleman-Lambert type of British managerial beige. Even Wilder was a 'proper character' associated with an eye-catching tactic; Dean is a nice, likeable guy who plays formations which everyone who read Inverting the Pyramid thinks of as old news.

But just look at the evidence. Nevermind the successes - the promotion, the cup final, the survival, the revival - just look at his record with individual players. The great coaches of Now (Pep Klopp Poch etc) are rightly praised for the way they improve the footballers they work with, not just technically but tactically and psychologically. Well, look at Dean's record at the Villa: Doug, McGinn, Mings, Konsa (!), Trezeguet, now AEG, and of course Jack (and I'd argue Wesley showed signs of real improvement pre-injury). This is the record of a seriously good coach, and those who doubted him - me, that posh-named preener on the Graun pod - all have to acknowledge that the prejudices were there, were wrong, and are looking genuinely daft right now.

Comparisons between him and Bielsa are reminding me of Saunders and Robson, and look who won that particular battle.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 27, 2020, 11:12:07 PM
We’ve all been rash (to varying degrees) in judging him and he is proving us wrong. Certainly me. He’s done a stunning job in looking at himself and his methods and turning what appeared a lost cause into one of the best stories in English and European football in the last 6 months. Six months. That’s right. In 6 months a side that was as good as dead is now threatening to break into the top 4 let alone the top 6. And doing it playing some wonderful football. Spurs today, for all they have spent and their illustrious manager didn’t get a shot off after the 21st minute. We create chance after chance and while we may not always win we are superb to watch.

You’re right Monty. He’s not the most fashionable bloke. He’s got a thick Brummie accent and is in many ways your bog standard bloke who you’d find shopping at Tescos on a Sunday afternoon with the family. He doesn’t wear a black shirt and suit. He doesn’t have a cultured look. But he’s proving that Birmingham has produced at this moment in time one of the most cultured progressive managers in Europe and easily one of the most cultured footballers in world football today.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tomd2103 on December 27, 2020, 11:18:27 PM
Quote from: algy on December 27, 2020, 02:16:25 PM
Quote from: john e on December 27, 2020, 01:19:55 PM
This is the football we were told Smith played when he first came
Front foot, attacking looking to take the game to every team

that’s why I was so disappointed last season when we didn’t
there is obviously reasons for that but this season is what we thought we were getting with bells on

still think Shakespeare was the missing ingredient
and I don’t say that to take anything away from Smith I’m a firm believer that great leaders delegate well and aren’t threatened by those around them

Smiths built a cracking backroom team around him, that might well be his biggest achievement in how we are doing this season
Well that and a load of better players obviously, but then it’s that team that brings those players in
I felt last season, we started off playing attacking football, then as it became clear that it wasn't working, we tried a few things out to tighten up which didn't really work. Finally it clicked just after lockdown. The summer recruitment had been excellent all round, both players, coaching, and backroom staff. We've not looked back this season, we've been able to reintroduce that attacking play, but with that little bit more quality - and as important confidence - knocking around the club.

One of the most noticeable improvements for me has been the fitness levels of the players.  We used to look dead on our feet in the final stages, but now look much sharper overall and are able to take it to teams right up until the final whistle. 

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on December 27, 2020, 11:20:31 PM
This is the first time in his managerial career that Deano has ever been able to make plans, because last summer was the first close-season where he hasn't had to completely rebuild his team.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: not3bad on December 27, 2020, 11:21:36 PM
I remember when Villa were in trouble last season I saw a tweet that said "No manager called Dean Smith has the right to survive in the premier league."
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ketzster on December 27, 2020, 11:23:29 PM
Yes well obviously he’s proven all of the doubters wrong and thank god we wrong because otherwise we wouldn’t have seen them play like this. Many times before I’ve often thought ‘there’s no future in playing like this’ when watching various managers try and find a way of playing. One of the most pleasing things I think is that even if we were to stumble along for the rest of the season (I don’t think we will now), they’ve identified a way of playing that works. We can see that it works and that there’s a massive future in playing like this. It’s far easier then to buy players required for that rather than keep chopping and changing and scrambling around like we have for so long. What’s so hard to fathom is how rapid the improvement has been. I know people are saying we can finish top 8 which would be a great achievement, but I think the players and the staff deserve better than that the way they are playing at the moment. And to be saying that shows what a remarkable job they’ve done
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Monty on December 27, 2020, 11:39:21 PM
Quote from: not3bad on December 27, 2020, 11:21:36 PM
I remember when Villa were in trouble last season I saw a tweet that said "No manager called Dean Smith has the right to survive in the premier league."

Christ almighty, the contempt of that. But I guess Dekan Schmidt of Red Bull Sudetenwaltz would be very welcome.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dave on December 27, 2020, 11:40:01 PM
Quote from: Monty on December 27, 2020, 10:45:26 PM
But not a lot of love for Deano, weirdly.

I happened to check the odds for next England manager this morning out of curiosity.

Smith is currently just behind Phil Neville.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on December 27, 2020, 11:45:50 PM
Perhaps because he wouldn't be so stupid as to leave his dream job for that nightmare.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on December 27, 2020, 11:48:57 PM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on December 27, 2020, 11:45:50 PM
Perhaps because he wouldn't be so stupid as to leave his dream job for that nightmare.

They couldn’t afford him, skint pricks.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: clash city rocker on December 27, 2020, 11:50:45 PM
Whenever we win now the first thing I slap on is heroes. Can be bowie, the oasis version or the motorhead version. We can be heroes just for one day !!!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 28, 2020, 12:03:43 AM
Quote from: Dave on December 27, 2020, 11:40:01 PM
Quote from: Monty on December 27, 2020, 10:45:26 PM
But not a lot of love for Deano, weirdly.

I happened to check the odds for next England manager this morning out of curiosity.

Smith is currently just behind Phil Neville.

And long may it remain that way.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on December 28, 2020, 12:32:15 AM
Good post Monty.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on December 28, 2020, 12:45:46 AM
Eddie Howe was talked up a lot but that took some time. Wilder has been, until Easter at least. Perhaps people are waiting to see what happens to us this season, I get the feeling that should we sustain our performance (unlikely but possible) then people will start talking about him.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on December 28, 2020, 12:58:14 AM
Let's not get carried away. Let's just enjoy it for what it is.

He's currently showing himself to have done a very good job. No need to pile on the expectations or to point the finger of mistrust at this or that section of the media, at ourselves, or anyone for that matter. Just sit back and enjoy what is currently a very interesting time for us.

We are going to continue to be volatile - we're not going to start beating all and sundry, we're going to lose matches we never expect to, and we're going to win others equally unexpectedly. The most important thing by far, though, is that there's currently a degree of excitement and hope that hasn't been there for a fair while and the direction of travel, despite the peaks and troughs, is in the right direction.

What matters most right now is what we're seeing thus far, and it's much, much better than we have seen for a long time. Let's just enjoy it without piling on added pressure or letting unnecessary eexpectations grow.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: not3bad on December 28, 2020, 01:17:41 AM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on December 28, 2020, 12:58:14 AM
Let's not get carried away. Let's just enjoy it for what it is.

He's currently showing himself to have done a very good job. No need to pile on the expectations or to point the finger of mistrust at this or that section of the media, at ourselves, or anyone for that matter. Just sit back and enjoy what is currently a very interesting time for us.

We are going to continue to be volatile - we're not going to start beating all and sundry, we're going to lose matches we never expect to, and we're going to win others equally unexpectedly. The most important thing by far, though, is that there's currently a degree of excitement and hope that hasn't been there for a fair while and the direction of travel, despite the peaks and troughs, is in the right direction.

What matters most right now is what we're seeing thus far, and it's much, much better than we have seen for a long time. Let's just enjoy it without piling on added pressure or letting unnecessary eexpectations grow.

Agreed. But shit! Wouldn't it be good if we put one over on Manure???
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on December 28, 2020, 01:31:45 AM
Do we still "set traps"? Doesn't sound like we need to, dictating play as we are increasingly doing.

And great posts, Monty. I think Brian Green should name his next nag "SudetenWaltz".
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on December 28, 2020, 01:35:47 AM
Quote from: eamonn on December 28, 2020, 01:31:45 AM
Do we still "set traps"? Doesn't sound like we need to, dictating play as we are increasingly doing.

And great posts, Monty. I think Brian Green should name his next nag "SudetenWaltz".

We do it all the time, we show them space where we want them to have the ball so we can swarm them and turn over possession. Watch the number of times we have 2-3 players around a man just as he takes a pass.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chris Smith on December 28, 2020, 09:51:50 AM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on December 28, 2020, 12:58:14 AM
Let's not get carried away. Let's just enjoy it for what it is.

He's currently showing himself to have done a very good job. No need to pile on the expectations or to point the finger of mistrust at this or that section of the media, at ourselves, or anyone for that matter. Just sit back and enjoy what is currently a very interesting time for us.

We are going to continue to be volatile - we're not going to start beating all and sundry, we're going to lose matches we never expect to, and we're going to win others equally unexpectedly. The most important thing by far, though, is that there's currently a degree of excitement and hope that hasn't been there for a fair while and the direction of travel, despite the peaks and troughs, is in the right direction.

What matters most right now is what we're seeing thus far, and it's much, much better than we have seen for a long time. Let's just enjoy it without piling on added pressure or letting unnecessary eexpectations grow.

Nah, in the middle of winter with a pandemic stalking the land I want to get carried away. I want optimism and thrills not caution and patience. I want to shake off the doubt that has become my normal pre-match feeling before every game and replace it with the belief that we are now the team others have to worry about and I want all of that to happen with Villa fans as manager and captain. In short I want romance and excitement not caution and pragmatism and for my kids to experience the same feeling I had in the 70s and early 80s.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on December 28, 2020, 10:03:19 AM
What Chris Smith said.
Football's fun again. I've missed that so much.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on December 28, 2020, 10:09:28 AM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on December 28, 2020, 12:58:14 AM
Let's not get carried away. Let's just enjoy it for what it is.

He's currently showing himself to have done a very good job. No need to pile on the expectations or to point the finger of mistrust at this or that section of the media, at ourselves, or anyone for that matter. Just sit back and enjoy what is currently a very interesting time for us.

We are going to continue to be volatile - we're not going to start beating all and sundry, we're going to lose matches we never expect to, and we're going to win others equally unexpectedly. The most important thing by far, though, is that there's currently a degree of excitement and hope that hasn't been there for a fair while and the direction of travel, despite the peaks and troughs, is in the right direction.

What matters most right now is what we're seeing thus far, and it's much, much better than we have seen for a long time. Let's just enjoy it without piling on added pressure or letting unnecessary eexpectations grow.

Agree with this. Enjoy the wins and and don't panic over the defeats but you know what it's like, especially on here after a couple of defeats. Drop him, he's shit, let's re-arange the midfield etc. We're a joy to watch at the moment but there will be bumps in the road so enjoy it and see where it takes us.

Fuck it, we're going to piss the league aren't we?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Monty on December 28, 2020, 10:11:31 AM
Wouldn't say I'm feeling all that carried away. I fully expect us to lose today just to puncture that bubble (it's Villa, it's what we do). I do think, however, that if someone with a more fashionable name or accent or haircut had been in charge of us this season our form would have led to all kinds of chat and speculation surrounding them. If it were Eddie Howe, for instance, he clearly fits a media 'narrative' (young, non-descript southern accent, 'progressive'), where Deano just doesn't.

Football isn't a rational business. I remember reading years ago that blonde players were scouted more often and did better in trials because they were more noticeable. There's still so much unthought prejudice at work in our game.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on December 28, 2020, 10:58:46 AM
Quote from: Monty on December 28, 2020, 10:11:31 AM
Wouldn't say I'm feeling all that carried away. I fully expect us to lose today just to puncture that bubble (it's Villa, it's what we do). I do think, however, that if someone with a more fashionable name or accent or haircut had been in charge of us this season our form would have led to all kinds of chat and speculation surrounding them. If it were Eddie Howe, for instance, he clearly fits a media 'narrative' (young, non-descript southern accent, 'progressive'), where Deano just doesn't.

Football isn't a rational business. I remember reading years ago that blonde players were scouted more often and did better in trials because they were more noticeable. There's still so much unthought prejudice at work in our game.

didn’t work for me
I’m/was blonde

Could have been a contender
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on December 28, 2020, 11:09:00 AM
Quote from: Chris Smith on December 28, 2020, 09:51:50 AM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on December 28, 2020, 12:58:14 AM
Let's not get carried away. Let's just enjoy it for what it is.

He's currently showing himself to have done a very good job. No need to pile on the expectations or to point the finger of mistrust at this or that section of the media, at ourselves, or anyone for that matter. Just sit back and enjoy what is currently a very interesting time for us.

We are going to continue to be volatile - we're not going to start beating all and sundry, we're going to lose matches we never expect to, and we're going to win others equally unexpectedly. The most important thing by far, though, is that there's currently a degree of excitement and hope that hasn't been there for a fair while and the direction of travel, despite the peaks and troughs, is in the right direction.

What matters most right now is what we're seeing thus far, and it's much, much better than we have seen for a long time. Let's just enjoy it without piling on added pressure or letting unnecessary eexpectations grow.

Nah, in the middle of winter with a pandemic stalking the land I want to get carried away. I want optimism and thrills not caution and patience. I want to shake off the doubt that has become my normal pre-match feeling before every game and replace it with the belief that we are now the team others have to worry about and I want all of that to happen with Villa fans as manager and captain. In short I want romance and excitement not caution and pragmatism and for my kids to experience the same feeling I had in the 70s and early 80s.

Amen brother.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on December 28, 2020, 11:52:55 AM
As  Chris Smith said.
Let's get carried away. Why not? We had to put up with lot of misery this year generally and with our football hopes over the last 10 years. So whilst it good ENJOY.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT on December 28, 2020, 12:06:01 PM
Quote from: LeeB on December 28, 2020, 11:09:00 AM
Quote from: Chris Smith on December 28, 2020, 09:51:50 AM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on December 28, 2020, 12:58:14 AM
Let's not get carried away. Let's just enjoy it for what it is.

He's currently showing himself to have done a very good job. No need to pile on the expectations or to point the finger of mistrust at this or that section of the media, at ourselves, or anyone for that matter. Just sit back and enjoy what is currently a very interesting time for us.

We are going to continue to be volatile - we're not going to start beating all and sundry, we're going to lose matches we never expect to, and we're going to win others equally unexpectedly. The most important thing by far, though, is that there's currently a degree of excitement and hope that hasn't been there for a fair while and the direction of travel, despite the peaks and troughs, is in the right direction.

What matters most right now is what we're seeing thus far, and it's much, much better than we have seen for a long time. Let's just enjoy it without piling on added pressure or letting unnecessary eexpectations grow.

Nah, in the middle of winter with a pandemic stalking the land I want to get carried away. I want optimism and thrills not caution and patience. I want to shake off the doubt that has become my normal pre-match feeling before every game and replace it with the belief that we are now the team others have to worry about and I want all of that to happen with Villa fans as manager and captain. In short I want romance and excitement not caution and pragmatism and for my kids to experience the same feeling I had in the 70s and early 80s.

Amen brother.

Double amen!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on December 28, 2020, 12:09:14 PM
Amen III
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on December 28, 2020, 12:23:41 PM
Amen IV - Return of the Amen, but let's not be too downcast at the occasional bad performance. We were shite at times as late as 1980.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ez on December 28, 2020, 12:27:03 PM
I'm satisfied. For the first time in ages we are back were i consider we should be in the league. Being on the up is a bonus too.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OCD on December 28, 2020, 12:29:59 PM
Just to add to Monty's point, John Terry still gets a lot of media attention. I don't think the media even know who Richard O'Kelly is. I think it was Martin Keown on Saturday who was talking about Smith's coaching staff and mentioned Shakespeare and Terry but didn't mention O'Kelly.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on December 28, 2020, 12:36:38 PM
People regularly get carried away with posting how shit everything is, 3 games ago Traore was a waste of money and we should've got Benrahma instead.

If you're going to get carried away then at least let it be dreaming of things getting better and having something to celebrate rather than creating your own misery.

There's no one in this league we can't beat, that doesn't mean we'll win every game but it should mean that we go into every round of fixtures thinking we can get points and that's a great feeling after years of writing off games against the top 6.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Louzie0 on December 28, 2020, 12:53:18 PM
Quote from: OCD on December 28, 2020, 12:29:59 PM
Just to add to Monty's point, John Terry still gets a lot of media attention. I don't think the media even know who Richard O'Kelly is. I think it was Martin Keown on Saturday who was talking about Smith's coaching staff and mentioned Shakespeare and Terry but didn't mention O'Kelly.

Great - clearly, he’s our very secret weapon of mass destruction!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dicedlam on December 28, 2020, 01:02:29 PM
I just love the fact that we are again being looked upon by the opposition in a serious light and not just some team they could rest certain players and still think they could guarantee the three points.

That is down mainly to Dean and his coaching staff.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Monty on December 28, 2020, 01:26:43 PM
Quote from: OCD on December 28, 2020, 12:29:59 PM
Just to add to Monty's point, John Terry still gets a lot of media attention. I don't think the media even know who Richard O'Kelly is. I think it was Martin Keown on Saturday who was talking about Smith's coaching staff and mentioned Shakespeare and Terry but didn't mention O'Kelly.

I think this is right, and don't forget Shakespeare has a memorable name and is associated with The Miracle so there's 'narrative' there. O'Kelly like Dean suffers from the bias against the the lower leagues that persists in spite of all the Vardys, Howes (and dare we say it Watkinses) of the world.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on December 28, 2020, 01:34:02 PM
Quote from: dicedlam on December 28, 2020, 01:02:29 PM
I just love the fact that we are again being looked upon by the opposition in a serious light and not just some team they could rest certain players and still think they could guarantee the three points.

That is down mainly to Dean and his coaching staff.

I think everyone will fear us, and given our attacking intent and quality, don't know exactly how to handle us.

We've still got Barkley to return and Wesley too.

God what a feeling! For 10 years it's felt generally a bit shit with a lack of hope, but the current set-up from top to bottom feels just right.

I've always been proud to support the Villa, and as someone who doesn't live in Birmingham (do any of us?! 😂) it's meant being almost an irrelevance. Now though, people actively start talking to me about us. They have an interest in how it's going.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: rooboy316 on December 28, 2020, 01:46:39 PM
Quote from: Chris Smith on December 28, 2020, 09:51:50 AM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on December 28, 2020, 12:58:14 AM
Let's not get carried away. Let's just enjoy it for what it is.

He's currently showing himself to have done a very good job. No need to pile on the expectations or to point the finger of mistrust at this or that section of the media, at ourselves, or anyone for that matter. Just sit back and enjoy what is currently a very interesting time for us.

We are going to continue to be volatile - we're not going to start beating all and sundry, we're going to lose matches we never expect to, and we're going to win others equally unexpectedly. The most important thing by far, though, is that there's currently a degree of excitement and hope that hasn't been there for a fair while and the direction of travel, despite the peaks and troughs, is in the right direction.

What matters most right now is what we're seeing thus far, and it's much, much better than we have seen for a long time. Let's just enjoy it without piling on added pressure or letting unnecessary eexpectations grow.

Nah, in the middle of winter with a pandemic stalking the land I want to get carried away. I want optimism and thrills not caution and patience. I want to shake off the doubt that has become my normal pre-match feeling before every game and replace it with the belief that we are now the team others have to worry about and I want all of that to happen with Villa fans as manager and captain. In short I want romance and excitement not caution and pragmatism and for my kids to experience the same feeling I had in the 70s and early 80s.

I agree with both of you, and don’t know how to reconcile the two. This must be how Schrodinger’s cat felt.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: not3bad on December 28, 2020, 03:04:02 PM
Quote from: rooboy316 on December 28, 2020, 01:46:39 PM
Quote from: Chris Smith on December 28, 2020, 09:51:50 AM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on December 28, 2020, 12:58:14 AM
Let's not get carried away. Let's just enjoy it for what it is.

He's currently showing himself to have done a very good job. No need to pile on the expectations or to point the finger of mistrust at this or that section of the media, at ourselves, or anyone for that matter. Just sit back and enjoy what is currently a very interesting time for us.

We are going to continue to be volatile - we're not going to start beating all and sundry, we're going to lose matches we never expect to, and we're going to win others equally unexpectedly. The most important thing by far, though, is that there's currently a degree of excitement and hope that hasn't been there for a fair while and the direction of travel, despite the peaks and troughs, is in the right direction.

What matters most right now is what we're seeing thus far, and it's much, much better than we have seen for a long time. Let's just enjoy it without piling on added pressure or letting unnecessary eexpectations grow.

Nah, in the middle of winter with a pandemic stalking the land I want to get carried away. I want optimism and thrills not caution and patience. I want to shake off the doubt that has become my normal pre-match feeling before every game and replace it with the belief that we are now the team others have to worry about and I want all of that to happen with Villa fans as manager and captain. In short I want romance and excitement not caution and pragmatism and for my kids to experience the same feeling I had in the 70s and early 80s.

I agree with both of you, and don’t know how to reconcile the two. This must be how Schrodinger’s cat felt.

And didn't feel.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Astnor on December 28, 2020, 03:33:27 PM
Quote from: dicedlam on December 28, 2020, 01:02:29 PM
I just love the fact that we are again being looked upon by the opposition in a serious light and not just some team they could rest certain players and still think they could guarantee the three points.

That is down mainly to Dean and his coaching staff.
Must be an x factor? that the likes of the head off the pitch and his assistent and the chef on the pitch all are from Birmingham being Villa fans from the beginning themselves. Not being from Birmingham or England myself I cant imagine xactly how that feels but for you from Birmingham or the area that must be something special - havent happened before I guess. Lets hope good times with mngr Smith his staff and cpt Grealish and histeammates continues and we win something with them sooner or later, that would be special. Isnt easy to get rid of the doubt about Villa given the last ten years, but looks good now - even if we get beaten tonight or more this winter :). Slightly tangeled? to this is something I never really have understood - not knowing that much about England footie culture myself,; how is it that Villa doesnt seems rather not very popular / interesting or not (good) covered by the the natonal media ish? Compared to the likes of the clubs from Manchester , Liverpool , London , Leeds and a lot of other places you could say. One theory I have is that Villa where "the one to beat" from the beginning as they where the best team ca 1870 - 1920? Might be a bit far fetched that theory :). Hoping for a good result tonight.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 28, 2020, 03:34:45 PM
Anyone rather we stayed down in the championship now?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on December 28, 2020, 03:54:22 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on December 28, 2020, 03:34:45 PM
Anyone rather we stayed down in the championship now?
Is that a trick question?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on December 28, 2020, 03:56:01 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on December 28, 2020, 03:34:45 PM
Anyone rather we stayed down in the championship now?

What a strange question. Of course not. Why would you think anyone would?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: algy on December 28, 2020, 04:09:02 PM
Quote from: olaftab on December 28, 2020, 11:52:55 AM
As  Chris Smith said.
Let's get carried away. Why not? We had to put up with lot of misery this year generally and with our football hopes over the last 10 years. So whilst it good ENJOY.
It's the first time since probably John Gregory where I've thought we could genuinely win the league. It'd take a few things to go our way, but at the moment it seems like there's nobody we can't not just beat, but hand their arses to them on a plate. I'm going to enjoy every minute of that until it's mathematically not possible, or it's actually happened.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 28, 2020, 04:13:22 PM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on December 28, 2020, 03:56:01 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on December 28, 2020, 03:34:45 PM
Anyone rather we stayed down in the championship now?

What a strange question. Of course not. Why would you think anyone would?

Nobody would now but last season some said they would rather be there than struggling away in the PL. I hope we never ever see that division again.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on December 28, 2020, 04:15:38 PM
Who? I don't remember that at all. People might have missed having more winnable games (than we had last season) and more fun away games (when attending matches was a thing), but I don't recall a single poster who wanted us to lose the playoff final in 2019 or get relegated last season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on December 28, 2020, 04:17:29 PM
Quote from: algy on December 28, 2020, 04:09:02 PM
Quote from: olaftab on December 28, 2020, 11:52:55 AM
As  Chris Smith said.
Let's get carried away. Why not? We had to put up with lot of misery this year generally and with our football hopes over the last 10 years. So whilst it good ENJOY.
It's the first time since probably John Gregory where I've thought we could genuinely win the league. It'd take a few things to go our way, but at the moment it seems like there's nobody we can't not just beat, but hand their arses to them on a plate. I'm going to enjoy every minute of that until it's mathematically not possible, or it's actually happened.

I’m not there yet
But if we win at Chelsea today I will genuinely think we could have a crack at top 4
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Gerrin on December 28, 2020, 04:20:08 PM
Quote from: Astnor on December 28, 2020, 03:33:27 PM
Quote from: dicedlam on December 28, 2020, 01:02:29 PM
I just love the fact that we are again being looked upon by the opposition in a serious light and not just some team they could rest certain players and still think they could guarantee the three points.

That is down mainly to Dean and his coaching staff.
Must be an x factor? that the likes of the head off the pitch and his assistent and the chef on the pitch all are from Birmingham being Villa fans from the beginning themselves. Not being from Birmingham or England myself I cant imagine xactly how that feels but for you from Birmingham or the area that must be something special - havent happened before I guess. Lets hope good times with mngr Smith his staff and cpt Grealish and histeammates continues and we win something with them sooner or later, that would be special. Isnt easy to get rid of the doubt about Villa given the last ten years, but looks good now - even if we get beaten tonight or more this winter :). Slightly tangeled? to this is something I never really have understood - not knowing that much about England footie culture myself,; how is it that Villa doesnt seems rather not very popular / interesting or not (good) covered by the the natonal media ish? Compared to the likes of the clubs from Manchester , Liverpool , London , Leeds and a lot of other places you could say. One theory I have is that Villa where "the one to beat" from the beginning as they where the best team ca 1870 - 1920? Might be a bit far fetched that theory :). Hoping for a good result tonight.

I think it definitely makes a difference having locals, or at least people that really know the club in charge. Big Ron, Brian Little, I'd also include John Gregory, all had good spells at Villa. Dean Smith has hit the jackpot in that he has one of our best ever players, and he's a local lad. No way Jack would still be at Villa now if he wasn't  from Birmingham.

Most managers who have come in recently, with no previous affiliation with the area, just seem to end up winding the fans up with their stupid comments. I think Sherwood was maybe the only one that didn't, he still speaks highly of Villa in the media too.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on December 28, 2020, 05:17:01 PM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on December 28, 2020, 04:15:38 PM
Who? I don't remember that at all. People might have missed having more winnable games (than we had last season) and more fun away games (when attending matches was a thing), but I don't recall a single poster who wanted us to lose the playoff final in 2019 or get relegated last season.
Exactly. It was a bizzare question to ask. Every Villa fan on planet earth will be really enjoying the ride this season. Long may it continue 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: wittonwarrior on December 28, 2020, 09:59:26 PM
I’m just not getting carried away.   I was never anti smith but at the same time whilst he has done well on paper am realistic enough to know we have ridden our luck with the playoffs  and staying up last season

I might well be missing the point re recruitment when it was poor 15/18 months ago and now like a lottery win
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on December 28, 2020, 10:29:42 PM
Dean Smith came across really well in his post match interview on prime. He seems extremely down to earth and not in the slightest bit carried away.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: JD on December 28, 2020, 10:41:55 PM
Quote from: Chris Smith on December 28, 2020, 09:51:50 AM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on December 28, 2020, 12:58:14 AM
Let's not get carried away. Let's just enjoy it for what it is.

He's currently showing himself to have done a very good job. No need to pile on the expectations or to point the finger of mistrust at this or that section of the media, at ourselves, or anyone for that matter. Just sit back and enjoy what is currently a very interesting time for us.

We are going to continue to be volatile - we're not going to start beating all and sundry, we're going to lose matches we never expect to, and we're going to win others equally unexpectedly. The most important thing by far, though, is that there's currently a degree of excitement and hope that hasn't been there for a fair while and the direction of travel, despite the peaks and troughs, is in the right direction.

What matters most right now is what we're seeing thus far, and it's much, much better than we have seen for a long time. Let's just enjoy it without piling on added pressure or letting unnecessary eexpectations grow.

Nah, in the middle of winter with a pandemic stalking the land I want to get carried away. I want optimism and thrills not caution and patience. I want to shake off the doubt that has become my normal pre-match feeling before every game and replace it with the belief that we are now the team others have to worry about and I want all of that to happen with Villa fans as manager and captain. In short I want romance and excitement not caution and pragmatism and for my kids to experience the same feeling I had in the 70s and early 80s.

You've hit the nail on the head Chris. This is exactly what i want as well.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SaddVillan on December 28, 2020, 11:17:09 PM
The thing I really like about Smith is his down to earth unfussy approach to the job.

Never too up when we win, never too down if things don't go our way. Carefully avoids giving the press anything too controversial, which keeps the spotlight off the players.

His handling of the squad seems assured, confident and even handed. The players not playing aren't screaming and shouting about the injustice of not being picked in the starting XI. They've seen that if you get a chance because of an injury and perform, then you've got the shirt. Clear signs of how good a man manager he must be.

He's managed in just two summer transfer windows to put together a tightly knit squad. Players who haven't come up to the mark have been moved out without rancour.rmony,

Harmony, togetherness, a lack of egos and a collective team spirit run through the DNA of the squad.

Looking forward and upwards.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Singapore Villa on December 29, 2020, 02:47:13 AM
Totally agreed SaddV.  Great post mate.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dave P on December 29, 2020, 07:41:42 AM
I mentioned on a WhatsApp group during the game last night with 15 mins to go that, if we were to lose, I wouldn’t be that upset as we are tying to win the game. Not many managers would do that at Chelsea at 1-1.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dave P on December 29, 2020, 07:42:51 AM
I also think Deano will be manager of the month for December. If he wins it in January, then who knows what we could achieve.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Allan C on December 29, 2020, 07:54:14 AM
Quote from: JD on December 28, 2020, 10:41:55 PM
Quote from: Chris Smith on December 28, 2020, 09:51:50 AM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on December 28, 2020, 12:58:14 AM
Let's not get carried away. Let's just enjoy it for what it is.

He's currently showing himself to have done a very good job. No need to pile on the expectations or to point the finger of mistrust at this or that section of the media, at ourselves, or anyone for that matter. Just sit back and enjoy what is currently a very interesting time for us.

We are going to continue to be volatile - we're not going to start beating all and sundry, we're going to lose matches we never expect to, and we're going to win others equally unexpectedly. The most important thing by far, though, is that there's currently a degree of excitement and hope that hasn't been there for a fair while and the direction of travel, despite the peaks and troughs, is in the right direction.

What matters most right now is what we're seeing thus far, and it's much, much better than we have seen for a long time. Let's just enjoy it without piling on added pressure or letting unnecessary eexpectations grow.

Nah, in the middle of winter with a pandemic stalking the land I want to get carried away. I want optimism and thrills not caution and patience. I want to shake off the doubt that has become my normal pre-match feeling before every game and replace it with the belief that we are now the team others have to worry about and I want all of that to happen with Villa fans as manager and captain. In short I want romance and excitement not caution and pragmatism and for my kids to experience the same feeling I had in the 70s and early 80s.

You've hit the nail on the head Chris. This is exactly what i want as well.
Yeah, I’m so happy watching us with a smile on my face again, expecting to win games and not looking down the fixtures to see when the next possible win would be. Knowing that even after a great season, the owners won’t sit back but will continue to build. I havnt felt this way very often over the years, maybe four times and after the year we’ve had it couldn’t have come at a better time
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dante Lavelli on December 29, 2020, 12:38:45 PM
I’m enjoying this team as much as the Brian Little season where we came 4th.  There’s just a joyfulness about the whole set-up.  Smith has played a big part in that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Deano's Mullet on December 29, 2020, 03:48:23 PM
Quote from: Dante Lavelli on December 29, 2020, 12:38:45 PM
I’m enjoying this team as much as the Brian Little season where we came 4th.  There’s just a joyfulness about the whole set-up.  Smith has played a big part in that.

We are a point worse off than we were after 14 games in 1995-96 which is amazing when we remember how good that side was. Incredibly we have scored nearly ten goals more which is crazy when you think we had Yorke, Milosevic and Johnson up front. I suppose the Liverpool 7-2 maybe accounts for that but we had rather a few 1-0 wins in those first 14 games of 95-96, we battered Coventry 3-0 and West Ham
4-1 but they were the biggest wins up to that point along with 3-1 over Mank Yoo.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: BC Villain on December 29, 2020, 05:54:18 PM
Quote from: KevinGage on December 27, 2020, 02:22:02 PM
Quote from: john e on December 27, 2020, 01:19:55 PM


still think Shakespeare was the missing ingredient
and I don’t say that to take anything away from Smith I’m a firm believer that great leaders delegate well and aren’t threatened by those around them

Indeed. In contrast to O'Neill and other dinosaurs who spent a career giving jobs to their mates and never adapted their style.

He trusts O'Kelly, clearly. But was open to the board suggesting Terry and is happy to get input from an experienced coach at this level like Shakespeare.

Ferguson was the same.  He didn't surround himself with the same backroom staff for the whole of his time at Manure
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dave P on December 29, 2020, 06:24:05 PM
Excellent point BC Villain
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: exigo on January 01, 2021, 10:26:26 PM
Switched channels after a couple of minutes tonight, to mute the ridiculous crowd noise (Old Trafford is NEVER that noisy).
Thanks to the stadium atmos, I now know that we colour code our corner routines.
Shout of 'blue' means high outswinger to the far post. Shout of 'white' is fizzed in under the crossbar.
Nice to have a management team that actually work on these things. We seem to have developed the art of keeping possession from our own throw-ins as well.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy65 on January 01, 2021, 10:52:43 PM
Quote from: exigo on January 01, 2021, 10:26:26 PM
Switched channels after a couple of minutes tonight, to mute the ridiculous crowd noise (Old Trafford is NEVER that noisy).
Thanks to the stadium atmos, I now know that we colour code our corner routines.
Shout of 'blue' means high outswinger to the far post. Shout of 'white' is fizzed in under the crossbar.
Nice to have a management team that actually work on these things. We seem to have developed the art of keeping possession from our own throw-ins as well.

Still wish we would mix up our dead ball routines a bit though. Watch the really crap free kick from Bertie tonight which ultimately led to the Utd goal. Target is standing about 10 yards away free and a simple pass to him would have given him a shot at goal.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on January 02, 2021, 09:52:59 AM
Just seen Dean Smith’s interview with AVTV very impressed
he wasn’t given it the old we played really well, great performance stuff he was quite downbeat about the first half wanted more said we Need to be better

Sounded like a top boss who’s team just lost narrowly rather than a plucky outsider
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on January 08, 2021, 05:17:29 PM
Quite rightly nominated for December Manager of the Month.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Footy-Vill on January 08, 2021, 05:35:43 PM
Quote from: Steve67 on January 08, 2021, 05:17:29 PM
Quite rightly nominated for December Manager of the Month.

That's great news should get the accolade. 
Outstanding effort in December
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: four fornicholl on January 15, 2021, 12:11:36 PM
Quote from: Footy-Vill on January 08, 2021, 05:35:43 PM
Quote from: Steve67 on January 08, 2021, 05:17:29 PM
Quite rightly nominated for December Manager of the Month.

That's great news should get the accolade. 
Outstanding effort in December
Confirmed winner, well done Mr Smith.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on January 15, 2021, 12:15:51 PM
Would love to see the record of all managers who win it....and then lose the next one! Can remember it happening once or twice with MON and I doubt any have won it since given the dubious quality we've appointed since (perhaps Sherwood might've got it for our good run in March 2015?)

Guess it's just a consquence of having wins against bottom half teams and then when you get the award you then have a run v top 6 teams.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on January 15, 2021, 12:24:10 PM
Well done to Deano!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Tuscans on January 15, 2021, 01:14:34 PM
My bedroom in 1986 looked like Dean Smiths room.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Pete3206 on January 15, 2021, 01:14:58 PM
First MOM since MON in 2010.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on January 15, 2021, 03:53:49 PM
Well done Dean.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dr Butler on January 15, 2021, 04:11:14 PM
yep nice one Dean, onwards and upwards please :)

UTV
The Doc
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: darren woolley on January 15, 2021, 04:17:29 PM
Congratulations Deano well deserved award.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: West Derby Villan on January 15, 2021, 05:43:52 PM
Well deserved Deano
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on January 15, 2021, 05:47:24 PM
Just put this in the other managers thread. Compare and contrast to his predecessor.
https://tinyurl.com/y3yr7kwa
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on January 15, 2021, 05:55:57 PM
Roll wor sleeves up like the Villa and go again.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on January 15, 2021, 07:06:40 PM
I love the whole "we were absolutely hopeless ... it's happened too often in the 18 months I've been here" said as if it's absolutely nothing to do with him. I think that's why I dislike the guy so much, play well and HE has proved the doubters wrong play poorly and he'll point anywhere except himself. There's always an excuse as to why it's out of his hands to fix.

The turnaround since we got rid of the fucking chancer and employed someone capable of doing the job is insane, I really hope we now have owners who know to avoid people like this whenever we need to hire again.

Thank McGrath that we've got Smith now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on January 15, 2021, 07:19:09 PM
Can we please not turn this into anything other than a Dean Smith thread. Do not tarnish him with anyone else please.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: wittonwarrior on January 15, 2021, 07:27:51 PM
I think what we have seen since he came to the club  is that he gets players playing.  Under Bruce it was as if one or two were carrying sacks of spuds / cabbages with them.

The acid test though would be a prolonged period without Jack.  This has only happened for one prolonged period in his first season and we tumbled.  Overall though we are a much stronger squad now so this would not become an issue again.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on January 15, 2021, 07:42:12 PM
Quote from: Pete3206 on January 15, 2021, 01:14:58 PM
First MOM since MON in 2010.
Crikey! Over a decade ago.

Well done Smith, deserved we have got teams scared of us again.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Louzie0 on January 15, 2021, 07:44:41 PM
Brill :)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Louzie0 on January 15, 2021, 07:47:00 PM
Quote from: four fornicholl on January 15, 2021, 12:11:36 PM
Quote from: Footy-Vill on January 08, 2021, 05:35:43 PM
Quote from: Steve67 on January 08, 2021, 05:17:29 PM
Quite rightly nominated for December Manager of the Month.

That's great news should get the accolade. 
Outstanding effort in December
Confirmed winner, well done Mr Smith.


Fantastic !
That’s our Manager! 😁 😀 😃

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: BC Villain on January 15, 2021, 09:54:44 PM
Quote from: paul_e on January 15, 2021, 07:06:40 PM
I love the whole "we were absolutely hopeless ... it's happened too often in the 18 months I've been here" said as if it's absolutely nothing to do with him. I think that's why I dislike the guy so much, play well and HE has proved the doubters wrong play poorly and he'll point anywhere except himself. There's always an excuse as to why it's out of his hands to fix.

The turnaround since we got rid of the fucking chancer and employed someone capable of doing the job is insane, I really hope we now have owners who know to avoid people like this whenever we need to hire again.

Thank McGrath that we've got Smith now.

I'm sure the players will be running through brick walls for him after reading those comments
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on January 15, 2021, 10:52:29 PM
Well done Dean.  Much deserved and it raises the profile of the club that little bit more. Good to be a Villa fan these days.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on January 15, 2021, 11:43:51 PM
I know there’s criticism of Bruce and rightly so.  But I’ve always said I was eternally grateful that he ended the era of us being a shitshow walkover team to play against.  We literally could’ve ended up in League 1.

The other thing that springs to mind are his decisions to bring Tammy, Conor, Anwar, McGinn, Snodgrass to the club all of whom have had a major part to play in our recent success.  But he does always divert blame from himself no doubt. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on January 15, 2021, 11:53:12 PM
Does any manager admit their own failings publicly?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on January 16, 2021, 12:18:58 AM
Wilder tends to be honest.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KevinGage on January 16, 2021, 01:32:39 AM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on January 15, 2021, 11:43:51 PM
I know there’s criticism of Bruce and rightly so.  But I’ve always said I was eternally grateful that he ended the era of us being a shitshow walkover team to play against.  We literally could’ve ended up in League 1.

The other thing that springs to mind are his decisions to bring Tammy, Conor, Anwar, McGinn, Snodgrass to the club all of whom have had a major part to play in our recent success.  But he does always divert blame from himself no doubt. 

Agreed.

A lot of what Paul E said rings true.

And maybe Bruce got a wee bit luck when his policy of Sign All The Captains (Jedinak, Lansbury, Hourihane, Whelan, Terry) eventually bore fruit.

He's not one of the game's original thinkers.

I like him enough to hope he does reasonably well at his boyhood club (keeping them up being the limit).  But happy he's not managing us any more.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: West Derby Villan on January 16, 2021, 12:39:27 PM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on January 15, 2021, 11:43:51 PM
I know there’s criticism of Bruce and rightly so.  But I’ve always said I was eternally grateful that he ended the era of us being a shitshow walkover team to play against.  We literally could’ve ended up in League 1.

The other thing that springs to mind are his decisions to bring Tammy, Conor, Anwar, McGinn, Snodgrass to the club all of whom have had a major part to play in our recent success.  But he does always divert blame from himself no doubt.

Totally agree, he must be given credit for steadying the ship and bringing some very instrumental promotion winning players into the club. Also agree that he had achieved everything he could and the time was right for Deano to take over.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on January 16, 2021, 01:18:41 PM
Quote from: West Derby Villan on January 16, 2021, 12:39:27 PM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on January 15, 2021, 11:43:51 PM
I know there’s criticism of Bruce and rightly so.  But I’ve always said I was eternally grateful that he ended the era of us being a shitshow walkover team to play against.  We literally could’ve ended up in League 1.

The other thing that springs to mind are his decisions to bring Tammy, Conor, Anwar, McGinn, Snodgrass to the club all of whom have had a major part to play in our recent success.  But he does always divert blame from himself no doubt.

Totally agree, he must be given credit for steadying the ship and bringing some very instrumental promotion winning players into the club. Also agree that he had achieved everything he could and the time was right for Deano to take over.

With the funds and players available I would have a done a better job of Steadying the ship than he did
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on January 16, 2021, 06:26:20 PM
Quote from: john e on January 16, 2021, 01:18:41 PM
Quote from: West Derby Villan on January 16, 2021, 12:39:27 PM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on January 15, 2021, 11:43:51 PM
I know there’s criticism of Bruce and rightly so.  But I’ve always said I was eternally grateful that he ended the era of us being a shitshow walkover team to play against.  We literally could’ve ended up in League 1.

The other thing that springs to mind are his decisions to bring Tammy, Conor, Anwar, McGinn, Snodgrass to the club all of whom have had a major part to play in our recent success.  But he does always divert blame from himself no doubt.

Totally agree, he must be given credit for steadying the ship and bringing some very instrumental promotion winning players into the club. Also agree that he had achieved everything he could and the time was right for Deano to take over.

With the funds and players available I would have a done a better job of Steadying the ship than he did
Bruce did steady the ship and we mustn't forget that. But the game was up when he put the chef in control of the ship, the captain in charge of entertainment and and a waiter in charge of the engines.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on January 16, 2021, 07:17:58 PM
Quote from: The Edge on January 16, 2021, 06:26:20 PM
Quote from: john e on January 16, 2021, 01:18:41 PM
Quote from: West Derby Villan on January 16, 2021, 12:39:27 PM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on January 15, 2021, 11:43:51 PM
I know there’s criticism of Bruce and rightly so.  But I’ve always said I was eternally grateful that he ended the era of us being a shitshow walkover team to play against.  We literally could’ve ended up in League 1.

The other thing that springs to mind are his decisions to bring Tammy, Conor, Anwar, McGinn, Snodgrass to the club all of whom have had a major part to play in our recent success.  But he does always divert blame from himself no doubt.

Totally agree, he must be given credit for steadying the ship and bringing some very instrumental promotion winning players into the club. Also agree that he had achieved everything he could and the time was right for Deano to take over.

With the funds and players available I would have a done a better job of Steadying the ship than he did
Bruce did steady the ship and we mustn't forget that. But the game was up when he put the chef in control of the ship, the captain in charge of entertainment and and a waiter in charge of the engines.

He was completely useless from the moment he set foot in the place to the moment he left
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Footy-Vill on January 16, 2021, 07:21:11 PM

Quote from: Louzie0 on January 15, 2021, 07:47:00 PM
Quote from: four fornicholl on January 15, 2021, 12:11:36 PM
Quote from: Footy-Vill on January 08, 2021, 05:35:43 PM
Quote from: Steve67 on January 08, 2021, 05:17:29 PM
Quite rightly nominated for December Manager of the Month.

That's great news should get the accolade. 
Outstanding effort in December
Confirmed winner, well done Mr Smith.


Fantastic !
That’s our Manager! 😁 😀 😃



Best English manager in the league
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on January 16, 2021, 07:26:40 PM
Quote from: john e on January 16, 2021, 07:17:58 PM
Quote from: The Edge on January 16, 2021, 06:26:20 PM
Quote from: john e on January 16, 2021, 01:18:41 PM
Quote from: West Derby Villan on January 16, 2021, 12:39:27 PM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on January 15, 2021, 11:43:51 PM
I know there’s criticism of Bruce and rightly so.  But I’ve always said I was eternally grateful that he ended the era of us being a shitshow walkover team to play against.  We literally could’ve ended up in League 1.

The other thing that springs to mind are his decisions to bring Tammy, Conor, Anwar, McGinn, Snodgrass to the club all of whom have had a major part to play in our recent success.  But he does always divert blame from himself no doubt.

Totally agree, he must be given credit for steadying the ship and bringing some very instrumental promotion winning players into the club. Also agree that he had achieved everything he could and the time was right for Deano to take over.

With the funds and players available I would have a done a better job of Steadying the ship than he did
Bruce did steady the ship and we mustn't forget that. But the game was up when he put the chef in control of the ship, the captain in charge of entertainment and and a waiter in charge of the engines.

He was completely useless from the moment he set foot in the place to the moment he left

With all due respect, that's nonense but its your opinion I suppose. He should have done better but he wasn't completely useless.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: N'ZMAV on January 16, 2021, 07:41:27 PM
Bruce's job was to steady the ship then get us up - he completed the first, but failed on the second part.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on January 16, 2021, 07:44:06 PM
Quote from: N'ZMAV on January 16, 2021, 07:41:27 PM
Bruce's job was to steady the ship then get us up - he completed the first, but failed on the second part.

I think that sums it up to be honest.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on January 16, 2021, 07:53:14 PM
As this is the Dean Smith thread it's only right to point out that we have dropped two places in the league. SMITH OUT
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: West Derby Villan on January 16, 2021, 08:27:58 PM
Quote from: Clampy on January 16, 2021, 07:44:06 PM
Quote from: N'ZMAV on January 16, 2021, 07:41:27 PM
Bruce's job was to steady the ship then get us up - he completed the first, but failed on the second part.

I think that sums it up to be honest.

Yep, in a nutshell
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: wittonwarrior on January 16, 2021, 08:32:34 PM
Bruce I felt didn't have faith in the players at his disposal.  His other big mistake was thinking Onomah had anything about him.  Even if we had got up with Bruce he would have failed.  Smith has the brain at least to know you need a strong backroom staff.   
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: KevinGage on January 16, 2021, 09:27:27 PM
Quote from: wittonwarrior on January 16, 2021, 08:32:34 PM
Bruce I felt didn't have faith in the players at his disposal.  His other big mistake was thinking Onomah had anything about him.  Even if we had got up with Bruce he would have failed.  Smith has the brain at least to know you need a strong backroom staff.   

He kept a poor Newcastle up last season.

Had we gone up and signed Snodgrass etc it's not completely unthinkable he'd have done similar with us.

But that would have been about the limit of it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on January 16, 2021, 10:29:56 PM
Dean Smith is just the 4th Villa manager to win Manager of the Month.
He joins MON, John Gregory, and Brian Little.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Allan C on January 17, 2021, 10:15:05 AM
Quote from: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on January 16, 2021, 10:29:56 PM
Dean Smith is just the 4th Villa manager to win Manager of the Month.
He joins MON, John Gregory, and Brian Little.
Did either of the Ron’s not win it???
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on January 17, 2021, 10:20:29 AM
Quote from: Allan C on January 17, 2021, 10:15:05 AM
Quote from: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on January 16, 2021, 10:29:56 PM
Dean Smith is just the 4th Villa manager to win Manager of the Month.
He joins MON, John Gregory, and Brian Little.
Did either of the Ron’s not win it???

Did they have an award prior to the Premier League coming into existence? If not that explains why they didn't. Big Ron won it at Coventry though after leaving us.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: WarszaVillan on January 17, 2021, 11:14:51 AM
There's always been a manager of the month as far as I remember and used to be accompanied by a bottle of Bells. Big Ron was also Villa manager after the Premier League was formed - we were runners up in its first season. He must have won a manager of the month that season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on January 17, 2021, 11:19:45 AM
Quote from: WarszaVillan82 on January 17, 2021, 11:14:51 AM
There's always been a manager of the month as far as I remember and used to be accompanied by a bottle of Bells. Big Ron was also Villa manager after the Premier League was formed - we were runners up in its first season. He must have won a manager of the month that season.

The Premier League introduced it in the second season, ie 93-94, when we finished 10th. You may be right about it happening before, but I can't find any details on it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on January 17, 2021, 11:30:45 AM
He won Manager of the year I think when we got promoted and won the league cup.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Godfrey Brian on January 17, 2021, 11:56:18 AM
Bell's whisky sponsored the monthly award in the seventies/eighties. The winners received a gallon bottle of Bell's before a home game. I recollect Ron Saunders being presented with a bottle when he won it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave shelley on January 17, 2021, 12:41:23 PM
I think Ron Saunders won manager of the year in 1975.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brazilian Villain on January 17, 2021, 12:43:12 PM
Quote from: WarszaVillan82 on January 17, 2021, 11:14:51 AM
There's always been a manager of the month as far as I remember and used to be accompanied by a bottle of Bells. Big Ron was also Villa manager after the Premier League was formed - we were runners up in its first season. He must have won a manager of the month that season.

Nowadays they'd expect it to be a bottle of Dalmore 62.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT on January 20, 2021, 08:38:40 PM
No holding back on the post match interview tonight!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dcdavecollett on January 21, 2021, 01:46:06 AM
Too f*cking right!!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on January 21, 2021, 08:38:02 AM
I love the way he's basically called Jon Moss a clown in front of millions.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: andyh on January 21, 2021, 08:51:10 AM
Smith is growing into a manager who knows he belongs at the top level.
I had my ‘wobble’ about him around last Christmas, but since the restart I think he has proved what a top class manager he is becoming.

And, I was convinced he called Moss a twat last night.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Des Little on January 21, 2021, 08:54:54 AM
I hope that Dean’s public undermining of Moss forces the PGMOL to not give us Moss again.  He’s screwed us time and again, he clearly has an agenda the fat unfit twat.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on January 21, 2021, 09:00:32 AM
Quote from: andyh on January 21, 2021, 08:51:10 AM
Smith is growing into a manager who knows he belongs at the top level.
I had my ‘wobble’ about him around last Christmas, but since the restart I think he has proved what a top class manager he is becoming.

And, I was convinced he called Moss a twat last night.

Yep, looked like it to me.  Three games from Moss and we've had the following: not giving a penalty for a blatant handball against Arsenal, a stamp on Konsa being given as a penalty to Man U, then last night's debacle. The club should make the strongest possible public complaint to the Premier League and PGMOL and shame them into not putting him in charge of any more of our games. He doesn't look fit enough to ref ANY games to be honest, the fat c***.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on January 21, 2021, 09:09:55 AM
He's been doing it for years against us, Helenius being raped and not getting a penalty.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on January 21, 2021, 09:22:51 AM
I am in two minds about this.  On the one hand I do not want him near a Villa game ever again.  But on the other hand I would like to see him in front of a full house at Villa Park and forced to listen to what we think of him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on January 21, 2021, 09:36:35 AM
Quote from: Risso on January 21, 2021, 08:38:02 AM
I love the way he's basically called Jon Moss a clown in front of millions.

I was scratching my head at the juggling balls comment. Creative way to avoid using the 'c' word alright *

*clowncnut
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on January 21, 2021, 09:49:13 AM
Bloody brilliant, passionate response from Smith. He'll geta fine and be banned to the stand on Saturday but he probably thinks it's worth it.

I really enjoyed him repeating the 'juggling balls' quote in every interview too.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on January 21, 2021, 09:53:05 AM
Quote from: brian green on January 21, 2021, 09:22:51 AM
I am in two minds about this.  On the one hand I do not want him near a Villa game ever again.  But on the other hand I would like to see him in front of a full house at Villa Park and forced to listen to what we think of him.

It's a growing list, Brian. Personally I look forward to Michael Oliver appearing a full Villa Park.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on January 21, 2021, 09:59:20 AM
We got rid of Friend, who hasn't refereed us since Smith likely threatened to flay him after the worst refereeing decision I have ever witnessed. I'm hopeful Moss is never refereeing one of our games ever again.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on January 21, 2021, 10:27:45 AM
Will it just be the one game touchline ban Dean gets?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on January 21, 2021, 10:35:39 AM
He stays in the stands at VP anyway doesn't he? Or atleast he spends alot of time there, probably for a better view.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Pat Mustard on January 21, 2021, 10:43:37 AM
Smith has taken another step up in my opinion after last night.  When we complain about decisions going the way of the top 6, it is precisely because they have managers who are prepared to complain in the press and put officials under pressure.  Ferguson did it, Wenger did it, Mourinho, Klopp and Guardiola all do it - other fans hate them for it, but you can't deny they get what they want more often than not.

Smith is a decent man, but last night proved to me more than ever than he also has that mean streak in him that top managers need.  We can't get back the points we were robbed of last night, but the next time there is a marginal decision in one of our games this will be in the ref's mind.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: fbriai on January 21, 2021, 10:45:47 AM
Quote from: Risso on January 21, 2021, 10:27:45 AM
Will it just be the one game touchline ban Dean gets?

I think so, as they were two yellow cards - albeit one immediately after the other - rather than a straight red.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on January 21, 2021, 10:56:29 AM
Quote from: fbriai on January 21, 2021, 10:45:47 AM
Quote from: Risso on January 21, 2021, 10:27:45 AM
Will it just be the one game touchline ban Dean gets?
I think so, as they were two yellow cards - albeit one immediately after the other - rather than a straight red.
Moss did not show a second yellow; was the second 'offence' a straight red?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on January 21, 2021, 11:07:39 AM
Quote from: LukeJames on January 21, 2021, 10:35:39 AM
He stays in the stands at VP anyway doesn't he? Or atleast he spends alot of time there, probably for a better view.

You're thinking of Henri Lansbury. Badumtsh.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: fbriai on January 21, 2021, 11:11:07 AM
Quote from: Mister E on January 21, 2021, 10:56:29 AM
Quote from: fbriai on January 21, 2021, 10:45:47 AM
Quote from: Risso on January 21, 2021, 10:27:45 AM
Will it just be the one game touchline ban Dean gets?
I think so, as they were two yellow cards - albeit one immediately after the other - rather than a straight red.
Moss did not show a second yellow; was the second 'offence' a straight red?

That's a good point. Haven't a clue.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on January 21, 2021, 11:14:58 AM
Quote from: Risso on January 21, 2021, 10:27:45 AM
Will it just be the one game touchline ban Dean gets?

Bit optimistic I think.....given he effectively called the ref and I guess his assistant a bunch of clowns and then went onto repeat it at the post match interviews. Only thing in Dean's favour is that if the "rule" will be interpreted in such a way going forward then it truly will bring the game into disrepute. Expect a rule clarification to be issued shortly.

Have we any grounds to challenge the yellow for McGinn? Luiz deserved a yellow and I think everyone at the time presumed he had got it, not McGinn.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on January 21, 2021, 11:23:45 AM
did you get juggling balls for Christmas

Is the greatest line Dean Smith will ever say
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Meanwood Villa on January 21, 2021, 11:29:53 AM
I suppose you could say he should have kept a cool head but I was proud of him saying what we were all thinking last night.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on January 21, 2021, 11:35:30 AM
Quote from: brontebilly on January 21, 2021, 11:14:58 AM
Quote from: Risso on January 21, 2021, 10:27:45 AM
Will it just be the one game touchline ban Dean gets?

Bit optimistic I think.....given he effectively called the ref and I guess his assistant a bunch of clowns and then went onto repeat it at the post match interviews. Only thing in Dean's favour is that if the "rule" will be interpreted in such a way going forward then it truly will bring the game into disrepute. Expect a rule clarification to be issued shortly.

Have we any grounds to challenge the yellow for McGinn? Luiz deserved a yellow and I think everyone at the time presumed he had got it, not McGinn.

I imagine the quotes will lead to a big fine, but think Dean Smith said the ref upgraded the card from yellow to red.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nev on January 21, 2021, 11:42:11 AM
It was out of character for Smith to act like he did but everyone has a breaking point. He puts a lot of emphasis of emotional control which is admirable but when you stand on the touchline in pissing rain watching your team work so hard against a team and squad assembled for billions, throwing themselves around to stop the ball going in the net, putting their bodies on the line only to see it all go down the shitter because of a refereeing error compounded by the presence of an impotent VAR system being used to back up the officials rather than get decisions correct I'm surprised he didn't boot the ref in the bollocks and fuck off out of it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on January 21, 2021, 11:50:50 AM
Yeah I agree it was out of character, I wanted him too come out firing after the Westham and Man Utd decisions but he was very level headed about them. Yesterday was a side to him we havent seen very often.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on January 21, 2021, 11:57:44 AM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on January 21, 2021, 09:53:05 AM
Quote from: brian green on January 21, 2021, 09:22:51 AM
I am in two minds about this.  On the one hand I do not want him near a Villa game ever again.  But on the other hand I would like to see him in front of a full house at Villa Park and forced to listen to what we think of him.

It's a growing list, Brian. Personally I look forward to Michael Oliver appearing a full Villa Park.

Isnt there another Oliver we dislike who loved MON - a journo at the Daily Mail? I think someone ascertained (probably Damo) that he was Emily Bishop from Coronation Street's son ?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Godfrey Brian on January 21, 2021, 12:14:15 PM
Quote from: Pat Mustard on January 21, 2021, 10:43:37 AM
Smith has taken another step up in my opinion after last night.  When we complain about decisions going the way of the top 6, it is precisely because they have managers who are prepared to complain in the press and put officials under pressure.  Ferguson did it, Wenger did it, Mourinho, Klopp and Guardiola all do it - other fans hate them for it, but you can't deny they get what they want more often than not.

Smith is a decent man, but last night proved to me more than ever than he also has that mean streak in him that top managers need.  We can't get back the points we were robbed of last night, but the next time there is a marginal decision in one of our games this will be in the ref's mind.
Agreed. There was another part of the interview where he put the troubles of football and players against the greater challenges others are facing currently.  Thought that showed both passion and dignity so soon after the match.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on January 21, 2021, 12:16:59 PM
Quote from: eamonn on January 21, 2021, 11:57:44 AM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on January 21, 2021, 09:53:05 AM
Quote from: brian green on January 21, 2021, 09:22:51 AM
I am in two minds about this.  On the one hand I do not want him near a Villa game ever again.  But on the other hand I would like to see him in front of a full house at Villa Park and forced to listen to what we think of him.

It's a growing list, Brian. Personally I look forward to Michael Oliver appearing a full Villa Park.

Isnt there another Oliver we dislike who loved MON - a journo at the Daily Mail? I think someone ascertained (probably Damo) that he was Emily Bishop from Coronation Street's son ?

Oliver Holt.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on January 21, 2021, 12:18:19 PM
Quote from: eamonn on January 21, 2021, 11:57:44 AM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on January 21, 2021, 09:53:05 AM
Quote from: brian green on January 21, 2021, 09:22:51 AM
I am in two minds about this.  On the one hand I do not want him near a Villa game ever again.  But on the other hand I would like to see him in front of a full house at Villa Park and forced to listen to what we think of him.

It's a growing list, Brian. Personally I look forward to Michael Oliver appearing a full Villa Park.

Isnt there another Oliver we dislike who loved MON - a journo at the Daily Mail? I think someone ascertained (probably Damo) that he was Emily Bishop from Coronation Street's son ?

Oliver Holt. I'm not sure he's earned a Hotle End egging, however.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aev on January 21, 2021, 12:28:25 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on January 21, 2021, 12:18:19 PM
Quote from: eamonn on January 21, 2021, 11:57:44 AM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on January 21, 2021, 09:53:05 AM
Quote from: brian green on January 21, 2021, 09:22:51 AM
I am in two minds about this.  On the one hand I do not want him near a Villa game ever again.  But on the other hand I would like to see him in front of a full house at Villa Park and forced to listen to what we think of him.

It's a growing list, Brian. Personally I look forward to Michael Oliver appearing a full Villa Park.

Isnt there another Oliver we dislike who loved MON - a journo at the Daily Mail? I think someone ascertained (probably Damo) that he was Emily Bishop from Coronation Street's son ?

Oliver Holt. I'm not sure he's earned a Hotle End egging, however.

Ooh, I don't really know (about that).
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on January 21, 2021, 12:33:49 PM
That was Mavis.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on January 21, 2021, 12:43:54 PM
Derek Wilton's new cut-price carpet, at which he proudly beamed "No flies on Wilton!" It went right over my 11 year old head but one of my best mates at the time (DIY child-genius) chuckled knowingly.

Anyway...
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aev on January 21, 2021, 01:00:14 PM
Quote from: Risso on January 21, 2021, 12:33:49 PM
That was Mavis.

I thought they were one and the same?

Feckin' mancs.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: not3bad on January 21, 2021, 01:11:25 PM
Quote from: Risso on January 21, 2021, 12:33:49 PM
That was Mavis.

That was Mavis lad it was Mavis I say, I say, it was Mavis.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aev on January 21, 2021, 01:42:36 PM
Quote from: not3bad on January 21, 2021, 01:11:25 PM
Quote from: Risso on January 21, 2021, 12:33:49 PM
That was Mavis.

That was Mavis lad it was Mavis I say, I say, it was Mavis.

Good old Alf Roberts.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on January 21, 2021, 02:06:06 PM
Fred Elliott surely.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on January 21, 2021, 02:44:36 PM
I think that was the joke, I say, I think that was the joke.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on January 21, 2021, 02:49:07 PM
Now he really hated us, Elliot.  The legendary Vertical Clearance specialist.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on January 21, 2021, 03:08:01 PM
Quote from: brian green on January 21, 2021, 02:49:07 PM
Now he really hated us, Elliot.  The legendary Vertical Clearance specialist.

Always puzzles me in hindsight that a team with Paul Elliot, Martin Keown, Allan Evans, Tony Dorigo and Gary Williams to call on as defenders went down without a whimper.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on January 21, 2021, 03:23:32 PM
Odd too Lee that of that list they either hated us - Paul Elliott and Martin Keown or they loved us - Allan Evans, Tony Dorigo and Gary Williams.  Getting hammered so much over the years, as often as not, seems to bring out the best and the worst in our defenders.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eric woolban woolban on January 21, 2021, 03:37:01 PM
I remember Chelsea fans hated Dean Saunders.  Think he was involved in an incident that broke Paul Elliott leg.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on January 21, 2021, 03:44:58 PM
Quote from: eric woolban woolban on January 21, 2021, 03:37:01 PM
I remember Chelsea fans hated Dean Saunders.  Think he was involved in an incident that broke Paul Elliott leg.

Elliot sued him didn't he?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on January 21, 2021, 03:45:13 PM
Quote from: eric woolban woolban on January 21, 2021, 03:37:01 PM
I remember Chelsea fans hated Dean Saunders.  Think he was involved in an incident that broke Paul Elliott leg.

That went to court in the end I think.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on January 21, 2021, 03:47:09 PM
Can anyone hear an echo?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on January 21, 2021, 03:48:09 PM
Sorry, went to make a drink and you nipped in before me. So sue me!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on January 21, 2021, 04:01:22 PM
Quote from: Risso on January 21, 2021, 03:48:09 PM
Sorry, went to make a drink and you nipped in before me. So sue me!

"He just got there before me your honour, only had eyes on the thread, I didn't mean to end his (posting) career"

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on January 21, 2021, 04:21:34 PM
LeeB, you are an habitual wong 'un, who accepts moderation as an occupational hazard, and presumably accepts quote fail in the same casual manner. We therefore feel constrained to commit you to the maximum term allowed for these offences: you will go to smalheathaliance.com for five years.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: fbriai on January 21, 2021, 05:16:40 PM
Audible gasps from the public gallery.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT on January 21, 2021, 05:29:50 PM
Silly question time, but Dean has often been standing at the back of the lower Trinity for home games for a slightly better view.

Could he stand there again, as he’s not in the dugout, or is he banned from the stadium?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on January 21, 2021, 05:36:10 PM
Quote from: LeeB on January 21, 2021, 03:47:09 PM
Can anyone hear an echo?

An echo?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on January 21, 2021, 05:43:29 PM
Quote from: Drummond on January 21, 2021, 05:36:10 PM
Quote from: LeeB on January 21, 2021, 03:47:09 PM
Can anyone hear an echo?

An echo?
Echo?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on January 21, 2021, 05:44:09 PM
Quote from: The Edge on January 21, 2021, 05:43:29 PM
Quote from: Drummond on January 21, 2021, 05:36:10 PM
Quote from: LeeB on January 21, 2021, 03:47:09 PM
Can anyone hear an echo?
An echo?
Echo?
co?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Percy McCarthy on January 21, 2021, 05:54:38 PM
Quote from: LeeB on January 21, 2021, 03:44:58 PM
Quote from: eric woolban woolban on January 21, 2021, 03:37:01 PM
I remember Chelsea fans hated Dean Saunders.  Think he was involved in an incident that broke Paul Elliott leg.

Elliot sued him didn't he?

Why the fuck did a fictional character from Corrie sue Dean Saunders? Even if he was the main character in one of the greatest headlines of all time?

“I’ve been stabbed - I say I’ve been stabbed”.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: fbriai on January 21, 2021, 06:01:31 PM
Regards the length of time he will be banned, The Athletic mention Russell Martin being banned for a single game for a similar offence this week:

Aston Villa boss Dean Smith charged by FA following red card against Man City (https://theathletic.com/news/dean-smith-aston-villa-fa-football/ycxpBQlvd0Fv)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on January 21, 2021, 06:26:31 PM
“What I said for the red card doesn’t need to be censored, it wasn’t swearing. He came over and said ‘I’m interpreting the laws of the game’, and I said ‘you should’ve done that earlier in the game’.

Thats quality from Smith and also shiws how thin skinned Moss is.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on January 21, 2021, 06:59:39 PM
That red card and his standing up to Moss will get huge respect from the other managers who suffer at the hands of increasingly pedantic referees and match officials.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on January 21, 2021, 07:07:52 PM
Over-sensitive b'stards: free the Villa Park One!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on January 21, 2021, 09:36:31 PM
Calling the ****** a fat lump of meat with two bad eyes is not an offensive remark.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: wittonwarrior on January 21, 2021, 09:41:06 PM
Deano and the rest of the club would be better getting an ex referee on the payroll simply to educate us rightly or wrongly on rule changes and their effect.  Sorry but we fucked up last night - Okay the rule is a farce agreed but we should have been fully aware. 

And before anyone starts I am in agreement that the linesman in normal times would have had his flag up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SheffieldVillain on January 21, 2021, 09:47:07 PM
Quote from: wittonwarrior on January 21, 2021, 09:41:06 PM
Deano and the rest of the club would be better getting an ex referee on the payroll simply to educate us rightly or wrongly on rule changes and their effect.  Sorry but we fucked up last night - Okay the rule is a farce agreed but we should have been fully aware. 

And before anyone starts I am in agreement that the linesman in normal times would have had his flag up.

Sorry, I couldn't disagree more. The rule hasn't changed. Last night's referee chose to interpret it in a way that no-one can remember ever having seen happening before, including every ex-pro, manager, pundit and initially an ex-referee who were in the media last night.

Also, as far as I know (it certainly was the case in recent seasons) every club is visited by a serving or former referee at the start of every season to discuss rule changes so this already happens.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: wittonwarrior on January 21, 2021, 09:53:56 PM
Mings himself admitted  he got caught out so I wouldnt say i was talking bull.   You only have to look at free  kicks then the attacking players often line up in offside positions to begin with. 

I do know that this is an odd one, but I agree with Keown in that it was a legit goal with the whole thing being a sham.  The law is bound to be clarified and  modified.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SheffieldVillain on January 21, 2021, 09:55:58 PM
Selective quoting of what Mings actually said there.
Quote
Never even heard of that rule, just let players stand offside, then run back & tackle you? In hindsight I should’ve cleared it, 100%, but didn’t even know that was the case. Nonsense
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on January 21, 2021, 10:02:51 PM
I mean we could have got hammered last night, not that we played poorly but we met a world class side bang in form. I'm kind of at peace with the result, if not a dodgy decision it would have been a last minute worldy, I just don't think we would have held out especially with Taylor on for Targett and Mings having that one rick a game in him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nunkin1965 on January 21, 2021, 10:07:13 PM
Quote from: wittonwarrior on January 21, 2021, 09:41:06 PM
Deano and the rest of the club would be better getting an ex referee on the payroll simply to educate us rightly or wrongly on rule changes and their effect.  Sorry but we fucked up last night - Okay the rule is a farce agreed but we should have been fully aware. 

And before anyone starts I am in agreement that the linesman in normal times would have had his flag up.

Peter Walton hadn't got a clue when it happened.
It was obvious that they were scrambling around trying to find some way of justifying the goal and came up with this pathetic "receiving" thing.

We were royally f****d last night with that decision.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SheffieldVillain on January 21, 2021, 10:13:04 PM
Quote from: Nunkin1965 on January 21, 2021, 10:07:13 PM
Quote from: wittonwarrior on January 21, 2021, 09:41:06 PM
Deano and the rest of the club would be better getting an ex referee on the payroll simply to educate us rightly or wrongly on rule changes and their effect.  Sorry but we fucked up last night - Okay the rule is a farce agreed but we should have been fully aware. 

And before anyone starts I am in agreement that the linesman in normal times would have had his flag up.

Peter Walton hadn't got a clue when it happened.
It was obvious that they were scrambling around trying to find some way of justifying the goal and came up with this pathetic "receiving" thing.

We were royally f****d last night with that decision.

In addition, if that is 'the rule' then the exact opposite decision being given here in the same situation, on the same night, is a bit weird, no? https://twitter.com/mrjakehumphrey/status/1352035544742690816
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: maidstonevillain on January 21, 2021, 10:23:21 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on January 21, 2021, 06:26:31 PM
“What I said for the red card doesn’t need to be censored, it wasn’t swearing. He came over and said ‘I’m interpreting the laws of the game’, and I said ‘you should’ve done that earlier in the game’.

Thats quality from Smith and also shiws how thin skinned Moss is.

Why does a Premier League referee have to interpret the laws. Shouldn't he know them.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on January 22, 2021, 09:15:42 AM

(https://i.ibb.co/dL7135n/Screenshot-20210122-085910-The-Athletic.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dL7135n)




(https://i.ibb.co/NTKxjXT/Screenshot-20210122-085927-The-Athletic.jpg) (https://ibb.co/NTKxjXT)


Maps of our average positions against City this week and last season. It appears the players are more disciplined and sticking well to tactics. Smith has us well organised now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on January 22, 2021, 09:18:35 AM
Our fullbacks a lot more forward last season. Targett and Guilbert I presume. I don't think Citeh attacked in such waves last year as they did the other night.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dave P on January 22, 2021, 09:23:18 AM
Quote from: Drummond on January 22, 2021, 09:15:42 AM

(https://i.ibb.co/dL7135n/Screenshot-20210122-085910-The-Athletic.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dL7135n)




(https://i.ibb.co/NTKxjXT/Screenshot-20210122-085927-The-Athletic.jpg) (https://ibb.co/NTKxjXT)


Maps of our average positions against City this week and last season. It appears the players are more disciplined and sticking well to tactics. Smith has us well organised now.

Thats quite interesting.  You can see last season how our full backs were pulled out of position and how bunched our midfield was
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on January 22, 2021, 09:27:21 AM
Definitely trying to play higher up the pitch and with structure and sticking to the job. Shows trust in each other too I think.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave shelley on January 22, 2021, 09:38:38 AM
Quote from: maidstonevillain on January 21, 2021, 10:23:21 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on January 21, 2021, 06:26:31 PM
“What I said for the red card doesn’t need to be censored, it wasn’t swearing. He came over and said ‘I’m interpreting the laws of the game’, and I said ‘you should’ve done that earlier in the game’.

Thats quality from Smith and also shiws how thin skinned Moss is.

Why does a Premier League referee have to interpret the laws. Shouldn't he know them.

I would almost gamble everything I own on all referee's not knowing the laws of the game one hundred percent.  Some of  the laws of the game are ambiguous and therefore open to interpretation.

I am a qualified referee instructor and also former quiz captain of Birmingham Referee's Association where a team of referee's would enter into competition against other Referee's Associations and neither I, my team members or members of other teams ever scored full marks on the laws of the game.  You'd think we could and should but I never saw it.

When contentious issues of this nature happen I'm always reminded of the time a Sunderland player, Bent?  had a shot against Liverpool which hit a beach ball rolling across the pitch and was diverted into the net.  The ref on the day allowed the goal to stand when it should have been disallowed and the game re-started with a dropped ball.  That was a mistake of epic proportions because outside interference on the field of play is basic and elementary but the referee that day either didn't know or, which I believe to be the case forgot.

I am in no way defending Moss or his cohort's for the interpretation of the ambiguity of that offside call but what really annoyed me was that all of them didn't do what all referee's when first attending coaching courses are instructed to do and that is to apply the unwritten eighteenth law...common sense.  They all had plenty of time, the referee, the linesman, fourth official and the prick in the shed at Stockley Park.

Finally, no matter about referee's knowing the laws of the game, my experience tells me, players are even less informed so from a personal point of view I attach no blame whatsoever to Tyrone Mings on this.

Sorry for wittering on.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SheffieldVillain on January 22, 2021, 09:55:08 AM
Ha, that takes me back to my refs course Dave (I only reffed for a few months as I didn't really enjoy it). The instructor would always throw in a couple of impossible 'what if...' situations to answer at the end of the session, and 'use your common sense' was always his response.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: frankmosswasmyuncle on January 22, 2021, 10:14:31 AM
Fascinating insight into the shady world of refs!

Thanks Dave Shelley!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on January 22, 2021, 11:27:14 AM
Quote from: dave shelley on January 22, 2021, 09:38:38 AM
Quote from: maidstonevillain on January 21, 2021, 10:23:21 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on January 21, 2021, 06:26:31 PM
“What I said for the red card doesn’t need to be censored, it wasn’t swearing. He came over and said ‘I’m interpreting the laws of the game’, and I said ‘you should’ve done that earlier in the game’.

Thats quality from Smith and also shiws how thin skinned Moss is.

Why does a Premier League referee have to interpret the laws. Shouldn't he know them.

I would almost gamble everything I own on all referee's not knowing the laws of the game one hundred percent.  Some of  the laws of the game are ambiguous and therefore open to interpretation.

I am a qualified referee instructor and also former quiz captain of Birmingham Referee's Association where a team of referee's would enter into competition against other Referee's Associations and neither I, my team members or members of other teams ever scored full marks on the laws of the game.  You'd think we could and should but I never saw it.

When contentious issues of this nature happen I'm always reminded of the time a Sunderland player, Bent?  had a shot against Liverpool which hit a beach ball rolling across the pitch and was diverted into the net.  The ref on the day allowed the goal to stand when it should have been disallowed and the game re-started with a dropped ball.  That was a mistake of epic proportions because outside interference on the field of play is basic and elementary but the referee that day either didn't know or, which I believe to be the case forgot.

I am in no way defending Moss or his cohort's for the interpretation of the ambiguity of that offside call but what really annoyed me was that all of them didn't do what all referee's when first attending coaching courses are instructed to do and that is to apply the unwritten eighteenth law...common sense.  They all had plenty of time, the referee, the linesman, fourth official and the prick in the shed at Stockley Park.

Finally, no matter about referee's knowing the laws of the game, my experience tells me, players are even less informed so from a personal point of view I attach no blame whatsoever to Tyrone Mings on this.

Sorry for wittering on.

Those are very fair points Dave, and I for one love reading your posts from a ref's point of view, as they're informed and interesting. Given that the average VAR review can take at least 4-5 minutes though, couldn't somebody at Stockley Park have had a quick read of the rules, which would have told them that they had interpreted it completely incorrectly. To then come out with this nonsense several hours after is lunacy, as instead of clarifying matters they've now muddied the waters even more in trying to defend the indefensible, and have probably created ten times more problems for refs, as managers will now try to exploit this weakness.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave shelley on January 22, 2021, 12:38:00 PM
Martin, they had time to read and digest the Encyclopedia Brittanica let alone the referee's chart (laws of the game).  All joking aside though, there are times in our lives when it is necessary to think on our feet, and refereeing football matches is one of them.  What VAR has done, is to give ref's the chance to actually do that.  What boils my piss over this is that none of the buffoons chose to take full advantage of the opportunity.  What Moss should have done IMO was to have flipped the situation and given the offside and then let the law-makers see what a shit interpretation their original idea was although in fairness this scenario would not have entered their heads.

There's an old adage within the refereeing fraternity and it's this:. Better to give a bad decision than a bad goal.  Moss and the rest would do well to remember that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: nick harper on January 22, 2021, 12:49:46 PM
Thanks for that Dave. The common sense thing is really what is lacking at times. Refs are under such scrutiny they seem to have lost that instinct. I’ve watched football for 50 years and my first instinct was that it looked wrong and that the City player couldn’t do that.

It is of course exacerbated by the linesman not putting the flag up when the clearance was headed back to Mings by the City defender as Rodri would more than likely realise he had to get back onside to be active or we’d have the free kick, as used to be the case.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on January 22, 2021, 01:01:58 PM
As I'm sure I once read, rugby referees understand the spirit of the game but not the laws and in football they understand the laws but not the spirit.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave shelley on January 22, 2021, 01:51:58 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on January 22, 2021, 01:01:58 PM
As I'm sure I once read, rugby referees understand the spirit of the game but not the laws and in football they understand the laws but not the spirit.

Indeed that is a truism Dave.  There used to be a provision in the laws of the game to award an indirect free-kick if in the opinion of the referee a player(s) were not playing within the spirit of the laws of the game.  Call it a cover-all for anything not specifically covered.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Virgil Caine on January 22, 2021, 01:59:44 PM
Will he still get a touch line ban given that the effect of that would be nullified due to lockdown and no crowds?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on January 22, 2021, 02:06:07 PM
You two Daves are braver Daves than I am.  My rustic grasp of rugby refereeing is what has always defined good Art..  It is whatever you say it is with the acceptance that it could be the opposite.  Union Rugby has always winged it by saying the laws are negotiable depending on the interpretation of them by the appointed referee.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on January 22, 2021, 02:14:16 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on January 22, 2021, 01:01:58 PM
As I'm sure I once read, rugby referees understand the spirit of the game but not the laws and in football they understand the laws but not the spirit.

Sounds about right but i'd add that the rugby bit is specifically about the scrum and ruck, loads of refs don't really understand that and just do the best they can, which is fine because they normally go back to common sense and, as you say, the spirit of the game.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Footy-Vill on January 22, 2021, 02:38:18 PM
Quote from: paul_e on January 22, 2021, 02:14:16 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on January 22, 2021, 01:01:58 PM
As I'm sure I once read, rugby referees understand the spirit of the game but not the laws and in football they understand the laws but not the spirit.

Sounds about right but i'd add that the rugby bit is specifically about the scrum and ruck, loads of refs don't really understand that and just do the best they can, which is fine because they normally go back to common sense and, as you say, the spirit of the game.

Staying purely with association football. I would say that many football players don't know and understand all the laws. Is it ever taught to them?  And some proabbly don't have the ability to grasp.

The incident other night not one ex players of pundits Keown, Savage , Richards, Ferdinand,  Owen, Lineker and Hargreaves as well as Guardiola and Smith were unaware of the law.
Really the officials amd officiating body the FA and premier league should be communicating and assisting all clubs players and coaches all rules of the game of football before each season kicks off.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mrfuse on January 22, 2021, 03:02:35 PM
No apologies needed we all enjoyed reading that post and appreciate the knowledge.

Spot on comments.

Thanks Dave Shelley
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on January 22, 2021, 03:12:11 PM
It appears that Smith now accepts he was wrong about the law and accepts it was a correct decision.

Bizarre
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: GordonCowansisthegreatest on January 22, 2021, 03:55:02 PM
Just like nodding your head and thinking "What a bunch of wankers"!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on January 22, 2021, 04:23:31 PM
Quote from: dave shelley on January 22, 2021, 09:38:38 AM
I would almost gamble everything I own on all referee's not knowing the laws of the game one hundred percent.  Some of  the laws of the game are ambiguous and therefore open to interpretation...
As a former ref (not to your level, Dave), your point is really well made.
IMHO, what is often forgotten is that the laws of the game are - at their essential - pretty simple. It's the interpretation of them that makes them bewildering!
One, however, which is both simple and not bewildering is the law on retreating 10 yards from a free kick; the not-doing of which should result in a yellow card. It does my head in that this is simply ignored.
If referees don't want to adjudicate on it, change the friggin' laws!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on January 22, 2021, 04:41:37 PM
Quote from: Drummond on January 22, 2021, 03:12:11 PM
It appears that Smith now accepts he was wrong about the law and accepts it was a correct decision.

Bizarre

Boooo, Smith out!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on January 22, 2021, 08:05:13 PM
Quote from: eamonn on January 22, 2021, 04:41:37 PM
Quote from: Drummond on January 22, 2021, 03:12:11 PM
It appears that Smith now accepts he was wrong about the law and accepts it was a correct decision.

Bizarre

Boooo, Smith out!
Perhaps a guilty plea in return for a lighter sentence?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: baddowvillans on January 22, 2021, 11:29:13 PM
I don't interpret it like that all.  To me Smith has accepted the FA charge against him that his remarks to Job Moss were abusive, but not in any way is he accepting that Rodri was not offside? 

 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on January 22, 2021, 11:41:35 PM
Quote from: dave shelley on January 22, 2021, 12:38:00 PM
Martin, they had time to read and digest the Encyclopedia Brittanica let alone the referee's chart (laws of the game).  All joking aside though, there are times in our lives when it is necessary to think on our feet, and refereeing football matches is one of them.  What VAR has done, is to give ref's the chance to actually do that.  What boils my piss over this is that none of the buffoons chose to take full advantage of the opportunity.  What Moss should have done IMO was to have flipped the situation and given the offside and then let the law-makers see what a shit interpretation their original idea was although in fairness this scenario would not have entered their heads.

There's an old adage within the refereeing fraternity and it's this:. Better to give a bad decision than a bad goal.  Moss and the rest would do well to remember that.
But Dave I don't see how, now, under instructions to not raise flag for offside Moss could have whistled for offside? And if he had there was no decision to me made other than a freekick to us. What Moss did was to allow play to go on and wait for VAR check which never came.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SheffieldVillain on January 23, 2021, 05:01:50 AM
Quote from: baddowvillans on January 22, 2021, 11:29:13 PM
I don't interpret it like that all.  To me Smith has accepted the FA charge against him that his remarks to Job Moss were abusive, but not in any way is he accepting that Rodri was not offside? 

 

Yes, that's how I read it too.

There's no way he was going to get off the abusive and insulting remarks charge anyway, regardless of the justification for it, so I'd imagine he just thought 'sod it, can't be bothered with them'.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: JD on January 23, 2021, 05:20:05 AM
Quote from: baddowvillans on January 22, 2021, 11:29:13 PM
I don't interpret it like that all.  To me Smith has accepted the FA charge against him that his remarks to Job Moss were abusive, but not in any way is he accepting that Rodri was not offside? 

 

That's how I interpreted it as well.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TelfordVilla on January 23, 2021, 07:06:56 AM
Deano has more important things to do than waste time and energy fighting this issue. He has accepted the charge so that he can move on and avoid all the negativity around this and focus on the positive of winning matches and signing players and moving this club up the table.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: BC Villain on January 24, 2021, 09:11:26 AM
From the Irish Times.

Who was voted manager of the year after Manchester United completed the treble in 1999, from which club did the runner-up come?

Some might have thought that Harry Redknapp at West Ham (fifth/Europe) or Peter Reid at Sunderland (promotion/105 points) or Paul Jewell Bradford City (promotion to the top flight after 77 years away) might have provided the answer.

But, no. It was Walsall. There in 1998-99 manager Ray Graydon steered the lowest-budget club out of the third division and into what is now the Championship and the scale of the feat could be measured in his peers’ response. Only Ferguson, they thought, had performed better.

Under Graydon, Walsall finished above Manchester City. No wonder they called it Madchester.

He does not get mentioned a lot, Graydon; nor do Walsall. Graydon was a former Aston Villa winger; Walsall are currently 12th in League Two. They travel to Port Vale this afternoon, should you be interested.

Walsall continue to make an impact at other levels, though. The man sent off at City on Wednesday night, for example, is a former Walsall manager. It was Dean Smith’s first front of house job, bumped up from youth coach in January 2011 with Walsall floundering, nine points adrift in League One. Smith kept them up. He had to learn on his feet; he is still doing so at.

But for referee Jon Moss – and VAR – and their timid interpretation of the offside law, Villa may have left City with a point on Wednesday. It would have been a fine result in a season already studded with them – 1-0 at Leicester, 3-0 at Arsenal and of course the 7-2 victory over Liverpool. Considering where they were last January, third-bottom after a 6-1 home defeat by City, Villa’s improvement is one of the stories of the season.

Our tendency to simplify, plus the personality cult around managers, means that this can be marked down as Smith’s improvement. Ollie Watkins, for instance, was bought by Brentford while Smith was there and Watkins has followed Smith to Birmingham – well done, manager. But on neither occasion will the decision have been solely Smith’s. The reality at Brentford and Villa is rather more complex.

Aston Villa, since their takeover by Wes Edens and Nassef Sawiris in the summer of 2018, have had a significant turnover in personnel and massive investment in the squad – a net spend of about €250 million on transfer fees alone. As has been seen many times, though, merely acquiring lots of players does not form a successful team. It has to be moulded, just as a club has to be moulded. Those who know Villa comment that since this takeover there has been leadership and clarity from the top.

Smith is part of it. Perhaps it says as much about other managers as it does about Smith, but players who have experienced his coaching repeatedly use the word “clear”. He is a persuasive communicator as well as someone tactically astute and committed to the training ground.

Smith was brought in from Brentford in October 2018 to replace Steve Bruce. Villa, sitting 14th, were in danger of becoming a stalled Championship club, like Nottingham Forest.

By May 2019 Smith had Villa jolting upwards, beating Derby in the final of the Championship play-offs. Villa were back in the Premier League; takeover targets were ahead of schedule.

But there were loan players in the squad, plus several at the end of their contract. Villa spent a lot but they had to recruit, they needed bodies. Losing 6-1 to City raised questions about that recruitment, as did a 4-0 loss at Leicester just before lockdown last March. Villa were second-bottom. Smith was a worried manager.

What did he do? He spoke to his players.

It is remarkable that this should be remarkable – yet it is. Some managers do not do what Smith did. He pulled players together, spoke to each individually, then split them into groups and asked them to analyse games. There was not a revolution in results on the resumption of play, but there was an upturn, and some luck. Instead of 19th, Villa ended the season 17th.

What this has to do with Walsall may seem unclear, but Smith’s engagement with his squad brought back a line from Michael O’Neill about exactly what he learned from his first job as a manager, which was at Brechin City. “You learn how to deal with players,” was O’Neill’s reply, and you could tell he meant it.

The answer rang a bell with Walsall, the club where Smith began as a player in 1989, where he was made captain at 19 and where that first appointment came. Smith realised quickly: “If you don’t get a connection with them, players can easily decide they are not going to work for you.”

Smith would speak of a young player he saw walking into training eating a sausage sandwich one day. Smith had previously warned the boy about his behaviour and this did not look like healthy refuelling. The teenager had not told Walsall he had left home, however, or that he was living at an aunt’s and did not want to ask for breakfast when she had a family of her own. This news made Smith think again about the player and how he managed him. Some time after, Smith saw the lad pick up litter at the training ground and smiled. Both parties had come through.

It is funny when you hear managers in a super-hyped, superannuated business such as modern English football set such store by these things, but presumably Marcelo Bielsa does so for a reason. Ray Graydon made players wear shirt and tie.

Smith – and O’Neill – speak of culture and its importance. As individuals they are sufficiently grounded for it not to sound pretentious. Their determination is to construct healthy dressing rooms full of good colleagues as well as good footballers – because it yields results. Those views chimed with the lockdown theatre of Ferguson and Kenny Dalglish last week. Each of them spoke of dressing room unity as being essential to success, in fact impossible without it. Their emphasis on this was, to use a word, remarkable.

It was clearly part of Graydon’s Walsall. Maybe it is the kind of thing you learn down there, at East Stirling or Brechin, and take with you.

So if the question concerns Villa’s rise, the answer rests on modern management and serious investment. Then there is Smith’s coaching. But also worth a mention is Smith’s humanity and understanding and a little bit of Walsall.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on January 24, 2021, 09:27:26 AM
Thank you for posting BC Villain. Very good insightful article.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave shelley on January 24, 2021, 09:29:21 AM
A good piece, thanks for posting.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on January 24, 2021, 09:32:50 AM
Thank you BC, that’s a great read and insight.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Hookeysmith on January 24, 2021, 09:35:56 AM
And to think there were many on here, me included, who questioned the owners when they handed him a new 4 year contract.
I now question if it was long enough.
Listening to him speak i would not want any othrr manager at our club
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Astnor on January 24, 2021, 09:36:37 AM
From the article above from BC V... :
" “If you don’t get a connection with them, players can easily decide they are not going to work for you.” ...also worth a mention is Smith’s humanity and understanding and a little bit of Walsall"

I like this man and its easy to understand that the footballers want to work for him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: manic-road on January 24, 2021, 09:45:04 AM
Quote from: Hookeysmith on January 24, 2021, 09:35:56 AM
And to think there were many on here, me included, who questioned the owners when they handed him a new 4 year contract.
I now question if it was long enough.
Listening to him speak i would not want any othrr manager at our club
Totally agree, the club has been on the up and up from the first day he walked through the doors at Villa Park.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rigadon on January 24, 2021, 10:01:56 AM
How long before he gets the Ingerlund job...
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on January 24, 2021, 10:06:34 AM
Quote from: Rigadon on January 24, 2021, 10:01:56 AM
How long before he gets the Ingerlund job...
No. Totally unsuitable for England job.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on January 24, 2021, 10:12:30 AM
Ingredients for a sustained top four finish club

Big club with large fan base  ✅

Loads of money. ✅

Top class manager and back room staff  ✅  (hopefully)

Ambition ✅

I haven’t put players Because if you have the right manager and a bit of money they come automatically

we have all the ingredients to be what we’ve always wanted to be
The biggest slice of luck we ever had wasn’t the goal line technology No goal but the new owners  that wobbled into Villa Park a couple Of seasons ago

it really is all there probably for the first time since the Premier League started,  The stars have aligned we’ve got to start believing it

It’s a great time to be a villa fan (we’ve waited long enough)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: colin69 on January 24, 2021, 10:39:08 AM
Quote from: Hookeysmith on January 24, 2021, 09:35:56 AM
And to think there were many on here, me included, who questioned the owners when they handed him a new 4 year contract.
I now question if it was long enough.
Listening to him speak i would not want any othrr manager at our club
Totally agree. I thought he was a goner and that the first lockdown saved his job.
Thank God our owners didn’t feel the same.
Now with the recruitment we’ve made and the players improving beyond recognition I truly hope Delano (and his back room staff) are here for many years to come.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rigadon on January 24, 2021, 11:22:01 AM
Quote from: olaftab on January 24, 2021, 10:06:34 AM
Quote from: Rigadon on January 24, 2021, 10:01:56 AM
How long before he gets the Ingerlund job...
No. Totally unsuitable for England job.

If he gets us to where I think he might, he will be a shoe-in I reckon.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TelfordVilla on January 24, 2021, 11:25:36 AM
I hope he tells england to do one. He can achieve fergie/Wenger status if he stays with Villa
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tomd2103 on January 24, 2021, 11:40:58 AM
Actually thought he showed a bit of a steely side yesterday , which we haven't really seen too often.  You could tell he wasn't too happy about elements of the 2nd half performance and made the decision to sub both Barkley and Grealish, much to their obvious ire. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan82 on January 24, 2021, 12:01:08 PM
15-20 years ago I played a lot of football manager. Rather than buy the star players I would buy up the good young players and after a couple of seasons I would have a great team challenging for the title.

I feel like Dean Smith has done the real life equivalent of this!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on January 24, 2021, 12:30:20 PM
Quote from: Rigadon on January 24, 2021, 11:22:01 AM
Quote from: olaftab on January 24, 2021, 10:06:34 AM
Quote from: Rigadon on January 24, 2021, 10:01:56 AM
How long before he gets the Ingerlund job...
No. Totally unsuitable for England job.
If he gets us to where I think he might, he will be a shoe-in I reckon.
No Never. Even if he wins the Champions League  with us he will not be good enough to manage England. I am afraid we will have to live with that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: wittonwarrior on January 24, 2021, 12:43:26 PM
He’s a good manager with what looks to be a very good backroom staff. A way to go though to match Saunders. Have said it before the acid test would be any prolonged period without jack
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on January 24, 2021, 01:01:03 PM
Sooner or later this season Dean will have to lance that Jack boil. Jack will miss a match or two through suspension/injury and we have to go out and win those matches.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dick Edwards on January 24, 2021, 01:16:13 PM
Quote from: john e on January 24, 2021, 10:12:30 AM

The biggest slice of luck we ever had wasn’t the goal line technology No goal but the new owners  that wobbled into Villa Park a couple Of seasons ago

In hindsight, the playoff final defeat to Fulham was the best thing that has happened to us this century. If we'd have won that and got promoted, Tony Xia wouldn't have been forced to sell up and we'd never have been lucky enough to catch the attention of our current owners.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: old man villa fan on January 24, 2021, 01:32:49 PM
I think there is something about starting management lower down the league.  It gives you an insight into hard times and issues that players may have which are far from those at the upper part of the league.

It has always been said that top players do not make top managers, particularly in modern day football.  As a player, if you have had a pampered playing career, it can be very difficult as a manager to see the issues outside of the game that may affect a player and when there is a shortage of money in a club.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on January 24, 2021, 01:41:32 PM
Quote from: Villan82 on January 24, 2021, 12:01:08 PM
15-20 years ago I played a lot of football manager. Rather than buy the star players I would buy up the good young players and after a couple of seasons I would have a great team challenging for the title.

I feel like Dean Smith has done the real life equivalent of this!

"Taking Woking from the Conference to the Champions League doesn't go unnoticed, Neil".
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on January 25, 2021, 10:08:13 AM
Taxi for Mr Lampard.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OCD on January 25, 2021, 12:10:55 PM
Yep, Lampard sacked. Thomas Tuchel expected to take over.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Percy McCarthy on January 25, 2021, 12:40:45 PM
Quote from: OCD on January 25, 2021, 12:10:55 PM
Yep, Lampard sacked. Thomas Tuchel expected to take over.

I wonder if he rates Tammy?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VILLA MOLE on January 25, 2021, 12:48:22 PM
Quote from: Percy McCarthy on January 25, 2021, 12:40:45 PM
Quote from: OCD on January 25, 2021, 12:10:55 PM
Yep, Lampard sacked. Thomas Tuchel expected to take over.
[/quote

I wonder if he rates Tammy?




I don’t think we will go for or need Tammy at this stage of our development
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: algy on January 25, 2021, 01:10:04 PM
Quote from: Villan82 on January 24, 2021, 12:01:08 PM
15-20 years ago I played a lot of football manager. Rather than buy the star players I would buy up the good young players and after a couple of seasons I would have a great team challenging for the title.

I feel like Dean Smith has done the real life equivalent of this!
Ha, I'd do the same.  Get by with my current players and a handful of free transfers / transfer list bargain buys for the first season or so, whilst hoovering up every half-decent 17/18/19 year old.  Loan them out as much as possible until they hit 21.  After a couple of seasons, you've built yourself a production line of young talent.  You can then sell your weaker 1st team players at a massive profit, and replace them with your best 21 year olds.  Sell anyone who's 22 and not good enough to be in/around the first team.  Reinvest all profits in 17/18/19 year olds.

Weirdly, that seems to be our actual plan right now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan82 on January 25, 2021, 01:25:56 PM
Quote from: algy on January 25, 2021, 01:10:04 PM
Quote from: Villan82 on January 24, 2021, 12:01:08 PM
15-20 years ago I played a lot of football manager. Rather than buy the star players I would buy up the good young players and after a couple of seasons I would have a great team challenging for the title.

I feel like Dean Smith has done the real life equivalent of this!
Ha, I'd do the same.  Get by with my current players and a handful of free transfers / transfer list bargain buys for the first season or so, whilst hoovering up every half-decent 17/18/19 year old.  Loan them out as much as possible until they hit 21.  After a couple of seasons, you've built yourself a production line of young talent.  You can then sell your weaker 1st team players at a massive profit, and replace them with your best 21 year olds.  Sell anyone who's 22 and not good enough to be in/around the first team.  Reinvest all profits in 17/18/19 year olds.

Weirdly, that seems to be our actual plan right now.

Ha! Great minds think alike! Yeah, it was a sure fire way of success in the old days of football manager. It got a bit too complicated for me about 10-11 years ago so I haven't been buying the new ones.

It just hit me last week that Dean Smith has basically done this with us. A lot of the players bought in 2019 have really pushed on, developed and looking like good players. We have leap-frogged a lot of club by buying players who are improving. Long may it last.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdward on January 25, 2021, 01:40:40 PM
Quote from: TelfordVilla on January 24, 2021, 11:25:36 AM
I hope he tells england to do one. He can achieve fergie/Wenger status if he stays with Villa
No surprise that the 2 most successful managers in the last 20 years, have also been the longest serving. I know it goes without saying that you wouldn't change your manager if he is successful, but allowing the manager to develop the team, squad and playing ethos, backed by understanding owners is the recipe for sustained success. I would love a Dean Smith era at VP.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Gerrin on January 26, 2021, 06:34:33 PM
Quote from: Rigadon on January 24, 2021, 11:22:01 AM
Quote from: olaftab on January 24, 2021, 10:06:34 AM
Quote from: Rigadon on January 24, 2021, 10:01:56 AM
How long before he gets the Ingerlund job...
No. Totally unsuitable for England job.

If he gets us to where I think he might, he will be a shoe-in I reckon.

Do you think he really has ambitions for England. I think he's pretty much got his dream job now. I think the FA have found their blue print now for England by hiring an ex-international. I would say Gerrard, Lampard or even Terry could be on the short list next time.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Smoke on January 26, 2021, 09:46:39 PM
Pretty sure Terry would tell them to stick it. Not that the FA would ask him mind.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Gerrin on January 26, 2021, 10:15:14 PM
Quote from: Smoke on January 26, 2021, 09:46:39 PM
Pretty sure Terry would tell them to stick it. Not that the FA would ask him mind.

Yeah, you're probably right on Terry, I'd forgotten about that. Doubt he'll ever manage England.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on January 26, 2021, 10:37:44 PM
Lampard will probably be on the list, he's got nearly as much of a CV as Southgate had.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 27, 2021, 12:10:16 PM
Quote from: VILLA MOLE on January 25, 2021, 12:48:22 PM
Quote from: Percy McCarthy on January 25, 2021, 12:40:45 PM
Quote from: OCD on January 25, 2021, 12:10:55 PM
Yep, Lampard sacked. Thomas Tuchel expected to take over.
[/quote

I wonder if he rates Tammy?




I don’t think we will go for or need Tammy at this stage of our development
Agree, I think Ollie is a better bet and has more potential.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on January 28, 2021, 08:30:11 AM
Manager of the Month curse appears to be striking again!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on January 28, 2021, 09:56:59 AM
Can we tighten up on corners and contesting crosses on the right hand side please Deano. Too many overloads on the right for me. Get Trez or Anwar back in and a bit of a boot up the jacksie for Traore. The pitch has 2 ends.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 28, 2021, 10:15:24 AM
Poor game management last night, I thought he had got past this.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan82 on January 28, 2021, 10:34:18 AM
Trez for Traore seemed an obvious sub after about 65-70 minutes. Our only win against these in two years came with us going 3 at the back...I wonder if Hause had come on would we have come through.

Like last season you just feel we are 4 or 5 points less than performances have merited.

However, we are comfortably a top ten team which is way more progress than was expected. He and the team are still learning.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Luke8 on January 28, 2021, 10:44:30 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on January 28, 2021, 10:15:24 AM
Poor game management last night, I thought he had got past this.

I’m not sure that particularly fair. Much more instances of getting it right this season than wrong.

Secondly, even though Burnley improved in the second half, they had had the grand total of two shots from the 46th minute up until the 75th. Then they scored with a freak cross. It’s not like we were losing control of the game.

Of course you can argue changes might have helped, but it’s seems more of a reaction to the end result than the performance at the time to me.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on January 28, 2021, 11:01:10 AM
I agree with that Luke, it was a freak goal and in that it changed the dynamics of the whole game. I do think as a team we was very naive as well with the first and third goal.

There’s still far more positives to take away from the game.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OCD on January 28, 2021, 11:09:59 AM
The first goal came from 2 players ball watching instead of doing their jobs.

The second was a bit of a fluke. The third goal had to be precise from Wood, there was no margin of error.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on January 28, 2021, 11:40:22 AM
Last night showed that we have to stop crosses coming to the box - easily said, but it is elementary.
However, we are still in transition. Lest we forget, this time last year we were about to dip into a horrible run of relegation-leading form. A feature of transitions is inconsistency (last Saturday vs last night) and 'bad luck' (refereeing in both Manchester games).
It will get better.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dutchvilla on January 28, 2021, 11:48:55 AM
The team is a work in progress and so is Smith. There are a lot more positives than negatives. I do think though that he should use subs more and earlier.

And it seems we have a first 10 that are guaranteed to play, the only place up for grabs being wide right, which is Trezeguet or Traore. Everyone else only gets in if someone is injured or suspended. I think this may be bad for morale for some players like Nakamba and El Ghazi and may sow discord in the dressing room. I think Smith should be more willing to mix things up a bit - including to drop players like Barkley and McGinn who will then be fresher and charged up to perform the next game.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: algy on January 28, 2021, 11:56:47 AM
I'm with Luke on this.  I thought we looked by far the better side last night.  Fair play to Burnley, a bit of luck went their way with their second goal; they capitalised on it and got a second whilst we still shellshocked; then defended like their lives depended on it.  It's something we need to take lessons from.

But given it's our second season in the PL after a too-long absence, it doesn't bother me overly.  We looked brilliant last night, even with the defeat.  Had even one of those shots gone in before half time, I'm convinced we'd have won by a cricket score.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Duncan Shaw on January 28, 2021, 12:09:00 PM
Quote from: algy on January 28, 2021, 11:56:47 AM
I'm with Luke on this.  I thought we looked by far the better side last night.  Fair play to Burnley, a bit of luck went their way with their second goal; they capitalised on it and got a second whilst we still shellshocked; then defended like their lives depended on it.  It's something we need to take lessons from.

But given it's our second season in the PL after a too-long absence, it doesn't bother me overly.  We looked brilliant last night, even with the defeat.  Had even one of those shots gone in before half time, I'm convinced we'd have won by a cricket score.

Pretty much word for word my thoughts too!  Let's show we have learned on Saturday from what was another poor defeat earlier in the season and then we'll all be feeling rosy again!!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on January 28, 2021, 12:14:42 PM
We looked very good first half, much less second half.  Yes, we're hugely improved on last season, but in a year when West Ham are 4th, and top 6 places are up for grabs, we can't afford the sheer complaceny we saw last night.  We absolutely threw it away, as we have in a few other games like Brighton and West Ham.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on January 28, 2021, 12:33:26 PM
Quote from: Luke8 on January 28, 2021, 10:44:30 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on January 28, 2021, 10:15:24 AM
Poor game management last night, I thought he had got past this.

I’m not sure that particularly fair. Much more instances of getting it right this season than wrong.

Secondly, even though Burnley improved in the second half, they had had the grand total of two shots from the 46th minute up until the 75th. Then they scored with a freak cross. It’s not like we were losing control of the game.

Of course you can argue changes might have helped, but it’s seems more of a reaction to the end result than the performance at the time to me.

Issue for me was the five minutes between 2-2 and 3-2. We couldn't get into their half or even have control of the ball so it kept coming back at our backline.

No subs when Davis on and perhaps we could've held it up better once it was cleared. Or Trez on to help out Cash a bit more which was a big problem with the 3rd goal.

Just putting them all on straight after the winner was just too late.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Luke8 on January 28, 2021, 01:05:50 PM
Quote from: Risso on January 28, 2021, 12:14:42 PM
We looked very good first half, much less second half.  Yes, we're hugely improved on last season, but in a year when West Ham are 4th, and top 6 places are up for grabs, we can't afford the sheer complaceny we saw last night.  We absolutely threw it away, as we have in a few other games like Brighton and West Ham.

That’s the next step to being a property good team though isn’t it? We are clearly better than these teams in the games we have played but we lacked a bit of nous and the consistency to grind out a result when we are the superior team occasionally. It’ll come.

I get the frustration because, like you say, it feels like it is possible to achieve something nobody expected this season. But I think the important thing is, if you step back and look at the big picture, it’s just feels increasingly likely that it will be when we get there rather than if.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on January 28, 2021, 01:09:17 PM
I always thought Davis if anything has a great touch when he features. I know his finishing is very debatable but last night he looked very very sluggish and rusty. Not sure if it’s game time or confidence, but his touch was woeful.

I’d have been tempted with either Ramsey or Nakamba for Ross or Traore when it was 2-1. Hindsight is wonderful though in the aftermath.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Luke8 on January 28, 2021, 01:11:34 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on January 28, 2021, 12:33:26 PM
Quote from: Luke8 on January 28, 2021, 10:44:30 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on January 28, 2021, 10:15:24 AM
Poor game management last night, I thought he had got past this.

I’m not sure that particularly fair. Much more instances of getting it right this season than wrong.

Secondly, even though Burnley improved in the second half, they had had the grand total of two shots from the 46th minute up until the 75th. Then they scored with a freak cross. It’s not like we were losing control of the game.

Of course you can argue changes might have helped, but it’s seems more of a reaction to the end result than the performance at the time to me.

Issue for me was the five minutes between 2-2 and 3-2. We couldn't get into their half or even have control of the ball so it kept coming back at our backline.

No subs when Davis on and perhaps we could've held it up better once it was cleared. Or Trez on to help out Cash a bit more which was a big problem with the 3rd goal.

Just putting them all on straight after the winner was just too late.

Maybe. But it’s still feels that’s a little bit with the benefit of hindsight to me. There were only three minute between the goals. And we had dealt pretty well with the equalising the first time. Plus, we want to be a big team - you still want to go and look to win that game after it goes 2-2, not start worrying about shutting up shop against Burnley.

Like I said, they had one decent chance between the first equaliser and the fluke of a goal. It’s not like they were putting us under sustained pressure. Maybe a change would have helped, but it also might have made it less likely that we would go and win the game. We’ll never know obviously and it’s very fine margins at this level of football.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on January 28, 2021, 01:17:33 PM
Quote from: Ian J on January 28, 2021, 01:09:17 PM
I always thought Davis if anything has a great touch when he features. I know his finishing is very debatable but last night he looked very very sluggish and rusty. Not sure if it’s game time or confidence, but his touch was woeful.

I’d have been tempted with either Ramsey or Nakamba for Ross or Traore when it was 2-1. Hindsight is wonderful though in the aftermath.

He was embarrassingly bad.  For the sake of his own career he needs to be on his way this January. He offers nothing to the squad, and his own development isn't being enhanced by playing 5 minutes once a month.  He's 23 in a couple of weeks, so I feel it's a bit of a crossroads for him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on January 28, 2021, 02:24:00 PM
Quote from: Risso on January 28, 2021, 01:17:33 PM
Quote from: Ian J on January 28, 2021, 01:09:17 PM
I always thought Davis if anything has a great touch when he features. I know his finishing is very debatable but last night he looked very very sluggish and rusty. Not sure if it’s game time or confidence, but his touch was woeful.

I’d have been tempted with either Ramsey or Nakamba for Ross or Traore when it was 2-1. Hindsight is wonderful though in the aftermath.

He was embarrassingly bad.  For the sake of his own career he needs to be on his way this January. He offers nothing to the squad, and his own development isn't being enhanced by playing 5 minutes once a month.  He's 23 in a couple of weeks, so I feel it's a bit of a crossroads for him.
I have to agree, it’s a shame as I did have high hopes for him. He’s been injured too often which has halted his progress. Unfortunately for him we’ve so far ahead in terms of quality now he isn’t ever going to cut it for where we want to be now. Our expectations have obviously risen as well as this season has unfolded. We really could do with a bit more quality in this department. I still can’t believe how awful he looked last night.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on January 28, 2021, 02:28:16 PM
Quote from: Risso on January 28, 2021, 01:17:33 PM
Quote from: Ian J on January 28, 2021, 01:09:17 PM
I always thought Davis if anything has a great touch when he features. I know his finishing is very debatable but last night he looked very very sluggish and rusty. Not sure if it’s game time or confidence, but his touch was woeful.
I’d have been tempted with either Ramsey or Nakamba for Ross or Traore when it was 2-1. Hindsight is wonderful though in the aftermath.
He was embarrassingly bad.  For the sake of his own career he needs to be on his way this January. He offers nothing to the squad, and his own development isn't being enhanced by playing 5 minutes once a month.  He's 23 in a couple of weeks, so I feel it's a bit of a crossroads for him.
Sluggish and overweight (okay: not by my standards I admit; but he's supposed to be an in-prime athlete).
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OCD on January 31, 2021, 12:49:48 PM
I think we would all like to see Deano use his substitutes a bit more. He seems to have been using his subs less and less on a game-by-game basis since we came back from Covid so it makes me wonder whether he's treating it like an exercise in getting their fitness levels up. You would normally do similar in pre-season, giving players longer and longer until they could comfortably handle the full 90 minutes. That would explain his reluctance to use subs. Hopefully once everyone's fitness levels are right, we can use the subs bench more from a tactical standpoint. That's got to be the next phase of our development, having the weapons on the bench that can change how games are going.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan82 on February 03, 2021, 11:03:03 PM
Great season, obviously.

I do wish, however, he was more pro-active with his substitutions/using the squad.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 03, 2021, 11:12:02 PM
We've been much, much better this season, that goes without saying, but just as he tightened up the defence last season, he now needs to improve on a few things again:

- getting the best out of the squad in terms of rotation and substitutions.
- turning things around from a losing position. At the moment when we concede the first goal they might as well blow the final whistle.
- allied to the second point, when we start to lose, the whole team seems to completely lose their minds. In the 8 defeats in the League, we've conceded at least 2 goals in all of them, and 3+ goals in 5 of the 8. Some mental toughness when we concede needs to be instilled somehow, plus some tactical flexibility from Smith.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: itbrvilla on February 03, 2021, 11:41:01 PM
2 wins in 7. He needs to change it up a little. We look tired and stale at times as well as too many sloppy errors (still)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Luke8 on February 03, 2021, 11:46:36 PM
Quote from: itbrvilla on February 03, 2021, 11:41:01 PM
2 wins in 7. He needs to change it up a little. We look tired and stale at times as well as too many sloppy errors (still)

Only really one poor performance in that time though. There is definitely an argument for one or two possible changes, but we aren’t in a position where we need to be too concerned yet.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on February 04, 2021, 12:08:26 AM
The consequences of not using the squad properly in recent weeks were unfortunately exposed right from the off tonight. We looked flat all over the pitch. I just hope Smith doesn't use the performance of AEG to double down on sticking with the tried and trusted MON style from the off. Moyes was the one who was brave, changing formation to counteract Grealish successfully and bringing likes of Fredericks and Lingard in from the start.

There seemed to be somewhat of a heated debate between Shakespeare and Smith around the hour mark today. Hoddle in commentary was calling for the tactical change to shift Grealish inside from a long way out. Smith was far too slow to do it, left Barkley on far too long for me.

Hard to be too harsh but Id fear for a MON style collapse from us late in the season if we don't start using the squad and bench a lot more proactively.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OzVilla on February 04, 2021, 02:17:26 AM
Quote from: Luke8 on February 03, 2021, 11:46:36 PM
Quote from: itbrvilla on February 03, 2021, 11:41:01 PM
2 wins in 7. He needs to change it up a little. We look tired and stale at times as well as too many sloppy errors (still)

Only really one poor performance in that time though. There is definitely an argument for one or two possible changes, but we aren’t in a position where we need to be too concerned yet.

I'm not sure he trusts his squad enough to rotate things.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Luke8 on February 04, 2021, 07:26:53 AM
Quote from: OzVilla on February 04, 2021, 02:17:26 AM
Quote from: Luke8 on February 03, 2021, 11:46:36 PM
Quote from: itbrvilla on February 03, 2021, 11:41:01 PM
2 wins in 7. He needs to change it up a little. We look tired and stale at times as well as too many sloppy errors (still)

Only really one poor performance in that time though. There is definitely an argument for one or two possible changes, but we aren’t in a position where we need to be too concerned yet.

I'm not sure he trusts his squad enough to rotate things.

Quite possibly. And, obviously, Dean see them more than us and is best placed to make that judgement. He is clearly doing what he thinks is the best thing to win games and, to be fair to him, he hasn’t got much wrong this season.

We will never know how much difference it would have made. You could make the argument either way - maybe we would have been a bit fresher  etc. or maybe it would have meant more disjointed/less quality performances.

What is clear, to me at least, is that I would trust Dean, and the rest of the club, to get that right eventually. We have seen a big jump in quality/performance/results from what you would call our first XI through the improvements they have made. I’d imagine Sanson is the first part of that next step in improving the overall quality of the whole squad.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on February 04, 2021, 07:34:24 AM
Quote from: Luke8 on February 04, 2021, 07:26:53 AM
Quote from: OzVilla on February 04, 2021, 02:17:26 AM
Quote from: Luke8 on February 03, 2021, 11:46:36 PM
Quote from: itbrvilla on February 03, 2021, 11:41:01 PM
2 wins in 7. He needs to change it up a little. We look tired and stale at times as well as too many sloppy errors (still)

Only really one poor performance in that time though. There is definitely an argument for one or two possible changes, but we aren’t in a position where we need to be too concerned yet.

I'm not sure he trusts his squad enough to rotate things.

Quite possibly. And, obviously, Dean see them more than us and is best placed to make that judgement. He is clearly doing what he thinks is the best thing to win games and, to be fair to him, he hasn’t got much wrong this season.

We will never know how much difference it would have made. You could make the argument either way - maybe we would have been a bit fresher  etc. or maybe it would have meant more disjointed/less quality performances.

What is clear, to me at least, is that I would trust Dean, and the rest of the club, to get that right eventually. We have seen a big jump in quality/performance/results from what you would call our first XI through the improvements they have made. I’d imagine Sanson is the first part of that next step in improving the overall quality of the whole squad.

I agree with this assessment, and I love the man, but he needs to come up with a plan for how we can use Grealish when the opponents copy Wham's approach, because they will.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Neil Hawkes on February 04, 2021, 07:43:31 AM
With Morgan Sanson now getting some game time, I would like to see a reversion to a 4-3-3,
Jack, Ollie & a.n.other as part of the front three, Doug, John & Morgan as the midfield three.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 04, 2021, 07:44:14 AM
I think Dean, and his coaching staff, have done a great job in turning us into an exciting and threatening side. There’s two areas he needs to address -

- better use of the squad. I know there’s a drop off in quality in most positions, but if you make a couple of changes - particularly in midfield - the team should be able to absorb the drop off. It’s pointless just running you preferred 11 into the ground and I’m sure that was a factor in last night’s horror show.

- we need to be better at responding to adversity. When we go behind we lose and we’ve got to stronger at competing when that happens.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Luke8 on February 04, 2021, 08:00:39 AM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on February 04, 2021, 07:44:14 AM

- we need to be better at responding to adversity. When we go behind we lose and we’ve got to stronger at competing when that happens.

I’m not dismissing this, there is clearly a bit of an issue here, but I’m not sure it’s as bad as it seems (or the stat about points from losing positions would suggest)

We haven’t got many positive end results from those games, but it’s not like we have conceded and given up/capitulated in all our defeats. We equalised against Manchester United, Brighton, West Ham and our performances could have quite easily have led to us winning some of those games on another day.

Like in most areas, we have made significant progress, it’s now about tweaking a few issues/taking that next step to becoming a really good team.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 04, 2021, 09:03:56 AM
Quote from: Luke8 on February 04, 2021, 08:00:39 AM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on February 04, 2021, 07:44:14 AM

- we need to be better at responding to adversity. When we go behind we lose and we’ve got to stronger at competing when that happens.

I’m not dismissing this, there is clearly a bit of an issue here, but I’m not sure it’s as bad as it seems (or the stat about points from losing positions would suggest)

We haven’t got many positive end results from those games, but it’s not like we have conceded and given up/capitulated in all our defeats. We equalised against Manchester United, Brighton, West Ham and our performances could have quite easily have led to us winning some of those games on another day.

Like in most areas, we have made significant progress, it’s now about tweaking a few issues/taking that next step to becoming a really good team.

I agree with Paul, when we lose, we tend to lose badly. We've conceded 3+ goals in 5 out of 8 defeats as I said before, and in those games we haven't been playing the top clubs.  Also worryingly, in the last two games we've gone back to conceding 20 shots a game. We got away with it, just, against Southampton but the chickens came home to roost last night.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan82 on February 04, 2021, 11:15:26 AM
Brian Little, John Gregory, MON and Dean Smith are the managers of the past 25 years who have had the opportunity to push us on and really challenge the elite. With Dean, the opportunity is there but the project is still very much at the early days stage.

What held MON and, to a lesser extent, Gregory & Little back was a failure to use a squad in the way that our rivals could. I think Little was fairly content with the team he built in 1995-96 & when it came to adding players to it we stalled. Gregory had money to spend but for some reason we always seemed to have a smaller squad than the other top six clubs. MON's failure to utilise the squad is well documented.

I really hope we aren't seeing this play out again with Dean. The players look so tired and leggy. Now maybe we don't have the full story on our Covid outbreak but I am disappointed there hasn't been more rotation of the squad. For a start, we are now under pressure for our next game because we didn't make changes early enough last night. When i looked at these fixtures I thought we had a real opportunity to cement a top 10 finish but we have really fluffed it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: danno on February 04, 2021, 11:43:22 AM
We have one of the youngest sides in the league, with that you're going to have inconsistency. Some naivety at times and yes some blind panic when things don't go our way.

It's partly why Arsenal are having such an up and down season, and why Man United struggled for periods last year under Solksjaer straight after unbeaten runs.

I thought Targett should have had a shot last night, instead he tried a pass which got cut out and because we had so many forward we got caught out.

That's a young side pushing too hard to get back into the game, and making a mistake. I can live with that, because I'm so sure there's more to come from all of them.

Smith is going to make mistakes too, so getting out thought by a man who has been managing at this level for twenty years doesn't worry me either.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Luke8 on February 04, 2021, 11:46:13 AM
Quote from: Risso on February 04, 2021, 09:03:56 AM

I agree with Paul, when we lose, we tend to lose badly. We've conceded 3+ goals in 5 out of 8 defeats as I said before, and in those games we haven't been playing the top clubs.  Also worryingly, in the last two games we've gone back to conceding 20 shots a game. We got away with it, just, against Southampton but the chickens came home to roost last night.

It’s four game out of eight and I’d say that you could make a fairly convincing case that two of those, Burnley and Southampton, were almost anomalies in terms of the number of goals conceded. But I do take your point, and certainly the number of shots we have conceded in the last two games is a bit of a concern.

Mentioned it in another thread, but I just think we need to be a bit more pragmatic at times. We are a bit too ‘win or bust’. It’s led to some great performances, but it’s also contributed to some of our defeats with our decision making in regards to that mentality (last night, Brighton’s first goal, Burnley’s second equaliser for example).

The positive side is that Smith is clearly aware of this and has shown previously he can recognise our faults and improve them, both tactically and in recruitment. And the players will get there. We are a very young, only recently good team. We basically need to learn how to be a really good side - be a bit more streetwise, less naive, be able to control games more and develop a little bit more consistency. We shown those things in patches this season and I have very faith the coaches and players will get there eventually.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 04, 2021, 11:48:46 AM
But sometimes the Manager has to help the team.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on February 04, 2021, 12:14:12 PM
Quote from: danno on February 04, 2021, 11:43:22 AM
We have one of the youngest sides in the league, with that you're going to have inconsistency. Some naivety at times and yes some blind panic when things don't go our way.

It's partly why Arsenal are having such an up and down season, and why Man United struggled for periods last year under Solksjaer straight after unbeaten runs.

I thought Targett should have had a shot last night, instead he tried a pass which got cut out and because we had so many forward we got caught out.

That's a young side pushing too hard to get back into the game, and making a mistake. I can live with that, because I'm so sure there's more to come from all of them.

Smith is going to make mistakes too, so getting out thought by a man who has been managing at this level for twenty years doesn't worry me either.

Yep agree with this.

I'd also like to add that when people say we've won 2 out of 7, out of the games we've lost, they inlcude Man C (with that well dodgy decision) Man U who put 9 past Soton and Liverpool with the kids.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Russ aka Big Nose on February 04, 2021, 01:20:04 PM
We are a work in progress - the players and coaches - and the progress has been remarkable.

It is inevitable in such circumstances that a below par performance can appear to reveal bigger issues than might actually be the case - largely because a relatively new team is less resilient by virtue of less playing time together, fewer challenging situations faced etc.

Much as I hated what happened last night (not least because of the idiot messages I got from a couple of mates that support them) it is part of a new team being formed.

As for 'the players look leggy', I might be wrong but I suspect that is a combination of their demeanour playing in a game when things are not going great and how fans see things in the context of the score/result. Their actuals stats might be on a par with other games.

It's highly likely that Ollie Watkins needlessly conceded possession when we thumped Red Scouse but those aren't the moments we remember. It's inevitable and not a criticism of anyone - players or fans offering that view. UTV
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on February 04, 2021, 01:26:58 PM
Quote from: OzVilla on February 04, 2021, 02:17:26 AM
Quote from: Luke8 on February 03, 2021, 11:46:36 PM
Quote from: itbrvilla on February 03, 2021, 11:41:01 PM
2 wins in 7. He needs to change it up a little. We look tired and stale at times as well as too many sloppy errors (still)

Only really one poor performance in that time though. There is definitely an argument for one or two possible changes, but we aren’t in a position where we need to be too concerned yet.

I'm not sure he trusts his squad enough to rotate things.

The squaddies have done us proud this year though.

Trez excellent start of the season. Hourihane did well in the first 2-3 games although I fully understand why we moved him on. Ramsey did fine on his start at Wolves which was a really big win at the time and Kortney Hause adventures in the premier league this year......4 starts, 3 clean sheets, 1 goal, 8 points. Nakamba has done o.k when he's come in aswell.

Completely forgot AEG's purple patch in December aswell which won us a few points. I think that's the classic case of someone not good enough to start 30 league games in a season but he'll have periods when he's hot as he was in December.

It seems we're still stuck in 19/20 thinking any fringe player coming into the 11 is going to instantly make us play horribly whereas the opposite is true from the players above. Dosen't mean I want any of them starting all the games in the run in but they've shown they can come in for odd starts if an automatic pick needs a rest.

Only one I don't really get is what our plan is with Davis. 2 nil down and he's an unused sub. Seems we just kept him to just say we have a striker on the bench to cover things and so not bother getting in any striker so he's one squad player who hasn't been trusted and is now stagnating but the others have done fine.

Will be a very interesting selection v Arsenal.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OCD on February 04, 2021, 03:48:29 PM
The team/squad may be on a learning curve and prone to occasional mistakes but it's the same with Smith. He's admitted to getting the tactics wrong last night but also there has to be a question as to whether the players would have been as tired if there had been a bit more use of substitutes when there was the chance to in previous games.

Two things though - 1) there's not as many mid-week games from this point on and 2) Smith has previously commented on expecting to have a lack of depth in the club's second season back in the Premier League and then acted on it by signing Sanson so I think we will build some depth over the coming windows. Hopefully he'll be able to do some rotation in future without there being a drop in quality or any loss of momentum.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brazilian Villain on February 04, 2021, 10:09:45 PM
Sometimes Twitter alerts you to the good stuff. https://twitter.com/MatKendrick/status/1357041166638854145
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 05, 2021, 04:36:03 PM
When Aston Villa defeated Arsenal at Villa Park last July it was a resilient performance typical of a team in a relegation battle: stout defending deep in their own half and taking one of their few chances. When they took Arsenal to the cleaners at the Emirates in November they were a different animal, stronger in every respect.

That they face Arsenal as equals on Saturday is testament to their transformation under Dean Smith and they are one of the Premier League season's success stories. Summer signings Emiliano Martinez, Ross Barkley and Ollie Watkins solved problems and they became a more front-footed and dominant team with strong underlying numbers in attack.

Evidence of this more ambitious style is the fact that Villa are one of four teams to raise the intensity of their pressing from last season according to Opta's passes per defensive action statistic (PPDA). Villa's PPDA has decreased from 13.8 per game to 12.4, the biggest difference of any team in the Premier League.

However, Villa fans are concerned that their team have looked flat since they resumed playing after a mid-season Covid hiatus, losing against Burnley and West Ham and scrapping past a depleted Southampton.

Aside from their pressing numbers, Smith's reluctance to rotate adds to fears that Villa could be running out of gas. Earlier this season, this column noted that Villa were benefiting from settled selection but as a campaign progresses relying on a small core of players can be problematic.

Villa
Villa have made just 18 changes to their starting XI this season, the fewest of any team in the Premier League with Leeds United some way behind them in second with 24. Fatigue is one of the key themes of a condensed season that followed a truncated pre-season, and Villa have two postponed fixtures to squeeze in. Combine this with the fact that Villa are one of few the teams trying to press more than last season and there is a risk of burnout.

Their opponents Arsenal by contrast, have made 52 starting XI changes. Unsurprisingly, the clubs involved in European competition dominate the top of the standings. Manchester United have made 65 starting XI changes, very close to an average of three per game. While there are doubts over Ole Gunnar Solskjaer's coaching and attention to detail, he has shuffled his pack well and United have all of their key players fit at this crucial stage of the season.

Football Nerd Daniel Zeqeri
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on February 06, 2021, 02:32:14 PM
I know it seems perverse after a win but Dean needs to learn how to use the squad.

I get that we don't have a lot of quality outside the first 11 but the lads looked knackered from about 60 minutes onwards today and if we're not careful the results will start to falter and injuries are going to creep in.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on February 06, 2021, 03:04:14 PM
Calls himself a Villa fan? Doesn't know his history. Smith out!

Quote
Aston Villa boss Dean Smith to BBC Sport: “That’s the first time we’ve done the double over Arsenal since the inception of the Premier League in 1992-93. These players like to make history as we’ve seen in the last couple of years.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 06, 2021, 03:18:28 PM
Quote from: eamonn on February 06, 2021, 03:04:14 PM
Calls himself a Villa fan? Doesn't know his history. Smith out!

Quote
Aston Villa boss Dean Smith to BBC Sport: “That’s the first time we’ve done the double over Arsenal since the inception of the Premier League in 1992-93. These players like to make history as we’ve seen in the last couple of years.

Eh? He's right.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aldridgeboy on February 06, 2021, 04:03:17 PM
We can be frustrating at times. Dean can frustrate with lack of rotations in a tired squad, or more so, lack of Subs during games.

BUT

This time two years ago we were half way down The Championship. We’re now, points wise, knocking on Champions League places, at just over half way. I know we won’t get CL, but to be in this position is the stuff of dreams with what the last 10 years has seen.

All we can hope is to improve every year. And by God have we done so over the last two years. That other team who, think they’re the best in the Midlands ,have gone backwards for two years.

Yes we will be frustrated between now and the end of the season. We will lose some more games. Some deserved , some probably due to a nausy VAR decision.

But this so the best I’ve felt in a decade, possibly longer watching our beloved  club. When we lose ,we bounce back. No more of this “ haven’t won for 9 games “ etc.

It’s down to Dean.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on February 06, 2021, 04:15:25 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 06, 2021, 03:18:28 PM
Quote from: eamonn on February 06, 2021, 03:04:14 PM
Calls himself a Villa fan? Doesn't know his history. Smith out!

Quote
Aston Villa boss Dean Smith to BBC Sport: “That’s the first time we’ve done the double over Arsenal since the inception of the Premier League in 1992-93. These players like to make history as we’ve seen in the last couple of years.

Eh? He's right.

Nein!

Quote
Aston Villa have completed a league double over Arsenal for the first time since the inaugural Premier League season in 1992-93 under Ron Atkinson.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OCD on February 06, 2021, 04:16:08 PM
I thought he got the subs right today. Trez came on when Arsenal had a left side of Saka and Pepe and our energy levels lifted. Same with Ramsey, we were under the cosh and his energy helped make us a threat on the counter.

Many would have started with Trez but we don't know whether he's yet at the point of being able to play 90 minutes at the intensity he would like after his Covid.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 06, 2021, 04:38:18 PM
Quote from: eamonn on February 06, 2021, 04:15:25 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 06, 2021, 03:18:28 PM
Quote from: eamonn on February 06, 2021, 03:04:14 PM
Calls himself a Villa fan? Doesn't know his history. Smith out!

Quote
Aston Villa boss Dean Smith to BBC Sport: “That’s the first time we’ve done the double over Arsenal since the inception of the Premier League in 1992-93. These players like to make history as we’ve seen in the last couple of years.

Eh? He's right.

Nein!

Quote
Aston Villa have completed a league double over Arsenal for the first time since the inaugural Premier League season in 1992-93 under Ron Atkinson.


You've lost me completely, sorry eamonn.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on February 06, 2021, 05:42:55 PM
Dean said since the inception of the Premier League we haven't doubled Arsenal. We did so in the very first season of the Premier League. So he's wrong.

Had he said that it's the first time since the first year of the PL he would have been correct.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: darren woolley on February 06, 2021, 06:08:57 PM
I love Dean Smith we are having a brilliant season thanks Deano for giving us a brilliant team.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: West Derby Villan on February 06, 2021, 07:23:06 PM
Great post aldridgeboy, agree wholeheartedly
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 06, 2021, 07:40:09 PM
Quote from: eamonn on February 06, 2021, 05:42:55 PM
Dean said since the inception of the Premier League we haven't doubled Arsenal. We did so in the very first season of the Premier League. So he's wrong.

Had he said that it's the first time since the first year of the PL he would have been correct.

Blimey that's stretching pedantry to a whole new level.  I still don't think he's wrong though.  The Premier League started in 92/93, which is when we last did the double over Arsenal. I might be missing a deeper meaning but I've drunk a whole bottle of wine.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: danno on February 06, 2021, 07:48:41 PM
Think Eamonn is right. 

By using the verb inception its akin to saying: "we've not done the double over Arsenal since the premier league started".

We clearly have done the double over them since it started, as we played and beat them twice mid way through a premier league season.

Bad English to the thread please!

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 06, 2021, 08:11:27 PM
Quote from: danno on February 06, 2021, 07:48:41 PM
Think Eamonn is right. 

By using the verb inception its akin to saying: "we've not done the double over Arsenal since the premier league started".

We clearly have done the double over them since it started, as we played and beat them twice mid way through a premier league season.

Bad English to the thread please!



I think BE would start by saying that inception is a noun and not a verb!

The Premier League commenced on the 15 August 1992. We beat Arsenal in the league in that season in December 1992 and April 1993. I am struggling to see how what Dean said is either historicaly or grammatically incorrect.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: danno on February 06, 2021, 08:22:58 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 06, 2021, 08:11:27 PM
Quote from: danno on February 06, 2021, 07:48:41 PM
Think Eamonn is right. 

By using the verb inception its akin to saying: "we've not done the double over Arsenal since the premier league started".

We clearly have done the double over them since it started, as we played and beat them twice mid way through a premier league season.

Bad English to the thread please!



I think BE would start by saying that inception is a noun and not a verb!

The Premier League commenced on the 15 August 1992. We beat Arsenal in the league in that season in December 1992 and April 1993. I am struggling to see how what Dean said is either historicaly or grammatically incorrect.

haha yep.

You have just answered your own question though.  That's the leagues inception. Not the whole season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on February 06, 2021, 09:05:36 PM
Setup of the team was much better today. Big call to bring in Ramsey ahead of Luiz and Sanson but he didn't let him down. Could have wasted another minute with his final sub alright.

I sincerely hope he drops Barkley for the next day. Don't think it sends the right message to let him keep trying to play his way into form but failing and then throwing a strop on way off. Didn't give Luiz a minute today, let's see how he reacts now. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on February 06, 2021, 09:20:28 PM
I can see how you would read it that way Risso, but I understood him to mean since August 1992 and the fact he described today's result as "making history" would further add weight to Dean thinking we haven't done the double over them "since football began". One of the journos in Dean's presser yesterday pulled out the stat and I think it was on his mind and this is how he interpreted it.

Not that it matters two figs...we've beaten Arsenal three times in a row now...for the first time since 1993* ;)

*Nov'93 as the third time - which I believe is the last Villa game one of our H&V brethren has seen in the flesh due to emigrating soon after...JD (in NZ?) perhaps?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Monty on February 13, 2021, 10:07:37 PM
Alright Dean, it's time to change things up. Clearly other managers have done their homework on us, and it's been a few games now that we've looked stagnant and out of ideas, culminating in tonight. I don't know what anyone else thinks, but the first thing that springs to my mind is that Ross and McGinn look totally out of it. Move Jack central, start Marv or Sanson with Doug in a more organised deep two.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on February 13, 2021, 10:09:44 PM
I'd swap Sanson and Ramsay in for McGinn and Barkley.

I'd be tempted with Davis central and Watkins and Grealish right and left.

Honest post match interviews from Martinez and the gaffer.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT on February 13, 2021, 10:18:17 PM
Very honest response from Emi and Dean in the interviews. They weren’t happy at all.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 13, 2021, 10:20:42 PM
It looks like Barkley starts whatever
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on February 13, 2021, 10:32:57 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 13, 2021, 10:09:44 PM
I'd swap Sanson and Ramsay in for McGinn and Barkley.

I'd be tempted with Davis central and Watkins and Grealish right and left.

Honest post match interviews from Martinez and the gaffer.

That's probably worth a look against Leicester given they're missing both starting fullbacks.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ez on February 13, 2021, 10:40:20 PM
Its concerning that our substitutions have little effect. Like the west ham game we had no idea what to do to change how the game was going.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on February 13, 2021, 10:46:25 PM
Quote from: Monty on February 13, 2021, 10:07:37 PM
Alright Dean, it's time to change things up. Clearly other managers have done their homework on us, and it's been a few games now that we've looked stagnant and out of ideas, culminating in tonight. I don't know what anyone else thinks, but the first thing that springs to my mind is that Ross and McGinn look totally out of it. Move Jack central, start Marv or Sanson with Doug in a more organised deep two.

If Jack goes central then our only real option for wide left is AEG. Trez is beyond bad on the left wing, he will be brought over to help Elmo I expect on the right. Unless McGinn could be tried further up the pitch, not that his form deserves it currently.

Smiths selections and subs have been a bit strange recently. Ramsey does well v Arsenal but didn't get a minute tonight. Luiz didn't get a minute v Arsenal but back in from the start tonight. Nakamba a couple of recent starts but out of the team as quick. I'm all for rotation but there isn't much consistency in the selections at the moment. And he can't keep saying he is picking on form if Barkley particularly but also Traore and McGinn keep getting picked.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Monty on February 13, 2021, 10:53:31 PM
AEG scored a bunch of goals when Barkley was out so that doesn't worry me too much. Traore likewise has earned a bit of goodwill, but McGinn has been severely declining and Barkley has been terrible consistently since he came back.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 13, 2021, 11:43:59 PM
It’s good to hear Dean acknowledge the performance was really poor.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on February 13, 2021, 11:52:58 PM
Well he's going to have to affect the performance. We need to be more at it from the get go. Like for like subs and the same formation every week hasn't changed much lately. Not that I'm complaining too much, we're above where I thought we'd be but I don't want to see the season peter out. I want to see our manager making some tactical or personnel changes that lift us from a bit of a performance slump.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on February 14, 2021, 12:07:12 AM
He's got to use the squad more. The first 11 look knackered and have done for weeks now.

If he doesn't shake it up I can see us going on a pretty dreadful run soon.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on February 14, 2021, 12:10:40 AM
Quote from: ez on February 13, 2021, 10:40:20 PM
Its concerning that our substitutions have little effect. Like the west ham game we had no idea what to do to change how the game was going.

It was very like for like really. No changing of shape or tweak of formation.

Trez shown over last year he's very useful v some opponents but though him coming on was a bit of a lazy call as it wasn't going to help us keep the ball better or close them down quicker centrally.

We had plenty of CMs on the bench who've done o.k when called on so perhaps putting two on and narrowing things would've been a better option but we were a bit limited given we'd lost Cash so had to put AEM on.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 14, 2021, 07:06:45 AM
I think we have been sussed out and teams know how to limit our attacking threat. It is not being helped by having 2 players that offer very little without the ball.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on February 14, 2021, 01:53:21 PM
Quote from: Ad@m on February 14, 2021, 12:07:12 AM
He's got to use the squad more. The first 11 look knackered and have done for weeks now.

If he doesn't shake it up I can see us going on a pretty dreadful run soon.

Agreed. But then he will point to the running stats provided by his sports science teams and tell us none of the players are fatigued. Just use your eyes Dean.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on February 14, 2021, 02:35:55 PM
I wonder could we consider something like this v Leicester with Jack given a free role. I think McGinns best position is in off the right


Luiz, Sanson
McGinn, Grealish, Ramsey
----------Watkins
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AV82EC on February 14, 2021, 05:26:23 PM
Quote from: brontebilly on February 14, 2021, 02:35:55 PM
I wonder could we consider something like this v Leicester with Jack given a free role. I think McGinns best position is in off the right


Luiz, Sanson
McGinn, Grealish, Ramsey
----------Watkins

Very narrow with not huge width, lot of emphasis on the full backs to get forward. However I like the idea as Brendan master tactician Rogers will no doubt try and flood the midfield to dominate possession.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on February 14, 2021, 05:58:24 PM
Quote from: brontebilly on February 14, 2021, 02:35:55 PM
I wonder could we consider something like this v Leicester with Jack given a free role. I think McGinns best position is in off the right

Luiz, Sanson
McGinn, Grealish, Ramsey
----------Watkins
Personally, I like that. I'm not sure Dean will.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 14, 2021, 07:02:01 PM
r (ftp://r)
Quote from: AV82EC on February 14, 2021, 05:26:23 PM
Quote from: brontebilly on February 14, 2021, 02:35:55 PM
I wonder could we consider something like this v Leicester with Jack given a free role. I think McGinns best position is in off the right


Luiz, Sanson
McGinn, Grealish, Ramsey
----------Watkins

Very narrow with not huge width, lot of emphasis on the full backs to get forward. However I like the idea as Brendan master tactician Rogers will no doubt try and flood the midfield to dominate possession.
It’s the system we are using now 4 2 3 1
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 14, 2021, 07:21:15 PM
Id go with a diamond to try and wrestle more possession and feed Jack quicker.

Dougie at 6
Samson and Ramsey as high energy 8s
Jack floating at 10

Traore playing off Ollie. I think that's how Leicester will line up against us to try and strangle possession.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on February 14, 2021, 07:29:08 PM
Quote from: Ads on February 14, 2021, 07:21:15 PM
Id go with a diamond to try and wrestle more possession and feed Jack quicker.

Dougie at 6
Samson and Ramsey as high energy 8s
Jack floating at 10

Traore playing off Ollie. I think that's how Leicester will line up against us to try and strangle possession.
That’s an excellent looking side Ads. With Jack, Ollie and Traore we can create, with Ramsey, Sanson and Doug you’d hope the midfield would not get overrun.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on February 15, 2021, 09:28:33 AM
And the width? Asking a lot of Elmo if he has to come in.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on February 15, 2021, 05:48:20 PM
I'd go the other way, push Grealish and Traore right up and bring Watkins a little deeper with a flat 3 in midfield. give the centre backs no one to mark and pin the fullbacks deep.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 16, 2021, 10:27:31 AM
Quote from: paul_e on February 15, 2021, 05:48:20 PM
I'd go the other way, push Grealish and Traore right up and bring Watkins a little deeper with a flat 3 in midfield. give the centre backs no one to mark and pin the fullbacks deep.

I was thinking the same. I don't think that Smith is suddenly going to have such a radical departure from his usual formation, as to switch to a diamond. If Cash is out, I think it'll be Trez instead of Traore on the right though.

If Hause was fit a 5-3-2 like this might be interesting:

            Konsa Mings Hause
Trez McGinn Luiz Sanson Targett
              Grealish Watkins


You'd then be able to make meaningful attacking subs with Barkley and Traore coming on to stretch teams later on.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on February 21, 2021, 04:01:39 PM
Thank fuck we've 36 points on the board as since Smith won manager of the month we have looked well short of ideas .....
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa for life on February 21, 2021, 04:04:01 PM
Smith still very much learning his trade. Can the likes of Grealish, Martinez and more importantly, Villa wait for him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan82 on February 21, 2021, 04:07:08 PM
Not using the squad is biting us now. Not sure letting Freddie go on loan was a smart move.

We had a great opportunity this season to skip a couple of steps on the way to the top 6. Still can, of course, but we have not been playing well.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on February 21, 2021, 04:07:23 PM
Stop picking out of form players.  We are not getting relegated, bring Sanson and Ramsay in for Luiz and Barkley.  Get in to the players as they look unmotivated again just recently.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: N'ZMAV on February 21, 2021, 04:07:49 PM
pathetic first half.
A better second half, but still below standard.
Glad we started the season strongly.
Need Smith to start mixing it up a bit
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on February 21, 2021, 04:07:54 PM
Didn't get today's selection at all and we were punished in first half.

Simply must do better next week with what he goes with otherwise Leeds will beat us again. That means starts for Trez and Sanson.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ez on February 21, 2021, 04:08:16 PM
We are unrecognisable from the first half of the season. What changed? Are we just knackered out?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on February 21, 2021, 04:09:49 PM
He said that the performance Vs Brighton was so bad that he didn't to a debrief. That looks like it was a mistake.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 21, 2021, 04:13:00 PM
Ended up with a pair of midfielders in Sanson and Ramsey that could actually join McGinn in the insane art of...running and closing.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on February 21, 2021, 04:15:15 PM
Quote from: Ads on February 21, 2021, 04:13:00 PM
Ended up with a pair of midfielders in Sanson and Ramsey that could actually join McGinn in the insane art of...running and closing.

That is a minimum basic requirement to get at least a point next week so we need to start three CMs capable of that even if we sacrifice a bit of breaking from midfield.

Barkley was badly exposed v Leeds in first game and he was in pretty good form at the time so would be a bad call to stick with him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on February 21, 2021, 04:35:50 PM
Quote from: ez on February 21, 2021, 04:08:16 PM
We are unrecognisable from the first half of the season. What changed? Are we just knackered out?

Well Smith doesn't believe in fatigue so that could be a problem. We were playing against a team that played a game in Prague on Thurs night to make matters worse. Our poor form goes back to the second half of the Burnley game for me. Failure to rotate the squad from earlier in the season is coming back to bite us big time. We have lost players like Hourihane and Guilbert who could have played and still play valuable minutes for us if treated properly. All straight from the MON playbook.

Terrible team selection today. Terrible timing of subs including the idiotic Trez for AEG one. Now looks weak for continuing to tolerate big name Barkley week after week with another public act of petulance.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa for life on February 21, 2021, 04:40:55 PM
Smith has bags of potential, and in another two seasons will be as good as Rodgers. Unfortunately, Experience does matter. Moyes is having success now because of all the ups and downs he’s had since leaving Everton. With Smith as our manager, we’ll have to accept that he’s learning his trade and will make a great many mistakes. Frustrating for sure....
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on February 21, 2021, 04:44:18 PM
Smith needs to be brave now, drop Barkley and trust Sanson and Ramsey to start and push McGinn further forward.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on February 21, 2021, 04:49:35 PM
Quote from: villa for life on February 21, 2021, 04:40:55 PM
Smith has bags of potential, and in another two seasons will be as good as Rodgers. Unfortunately, Experience does matter. Moyes is having success now because of all the ups and downs he’s had since leaving Everton. With Smith as our manager, we’ll have to accept that he’s learning his trade and will make a great many mistakes. Frustrating for sure....

Based on what? I’m not saying Smith out or anything like that, but no one has any idea how good Dean will be. If he keeps doing what he is then he isn’t learning. Same poor performance overall as Brighton. If Barkley starts v Leeds, if it’s the same tactics, then he isn’t learning is he? Sanson should have started today, nothing has changed for a few games during our poor run. I’m delighted with the season overall, I thought mid table. Let’s see what he does and what / if he makes any changes. And yes it’s easy for me sat in my chair.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa for life on February 21, 2021, 04:53:30 PM
I have faith Smith will finally get it. I don’t expect to see Barkley starting for much longer. It’s been obvious and Smith is either a slow learner or just stubborn, but I think he’s got it now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on February 21, 2021, 04:55:27 PM
Quote from: villa for life on February 21, 2021, 04:53:30 PM
I have faith Smith will finally get it. I don’t expect to see Barkley starting for much longer. It’s been obvious and Smith is either a slow learner or just stubborn, but I think he’s got it now.

Well I hope your right, but faith and facts are different. For me Dean certainly gets next season and maybe the season after.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on February 21, 2021, 04:59:08 PM
I think most of us posting on here are more than satisfied where we sit right now and look forward to further progression next season .....it will be disappointing to see us slide down the table if we go on a run of losses ....Smith needs to show a tough streak and dump Barkley not just for his poor form but bad attitude ....the squad have looked a close fit unit so far - last thing we need is someone upsetting that
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ez on February 21, 2021, 04:59:59 PM
Anywhere in the top half would be a good season. Its next season and the push for champions league qualification that gets interesting.  We definately need to learn some new tactics though.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 21, 2021, 05:03:53 PM
He needs to start being a lot tougher, and much more tactically astute and flexible. That starting team was a disgrace today, and so it proved.  I'm not sure he's got it in him to be honest, he still looks like he feels like he's a lower league manager grateful to be in a big job. I can't see him ever subbing a player 30 minutes after bringing him on like the Chelsea boss did yesterday.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 21, 2021, 05:13:33 PM
Quote from: villa for life on February 21, 2021, 04:53:30 PM
I have faith Smith will finally get it. I don’t expect to see Barkley starting for much longer. It’s been obvious and Smith is either a slow learner or just stubborn, but I think he’s got it now.
either trait is not great, I bet Barkley is first name on the team sheet.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on February 21, 2021, 05:15:24 PM
Quote from: ez on February 21, 2021, 04:59:59 PM
Anywhere in the top half would be a good season. Its next season and the push for champions league qualification that gets interesting.  We definately need to learn some new tactics though.

We would have to sign amazingly well and even better than last summer to be anywhere close to 4th in 12 months time imo.

This season is a bit like 15/16, likes of West Ham and obviously Leicester finished above Liverpool and Chelsea. Have a look at the table and points difference between top 6 and 7th the next season.

Those teams will do what they always do and sack managers and/or spend 200m and go again.

Top half should be the target this season and then try to finish 7th or 8th next season and also have a good cup run. Then perhaps we can push on the following year although I suspect a couple of our star players might be thinking about their peak years by then so hopefully our squad will be stronger to deal with it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 21, 2021, 05:17:42 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on February 21, 2021, 05:15:24 PM
Quote from: ez on February 21, 2021, 04:59:59 PM
Anywhere in the top half would be a good season. Its next season and the push for champions league qualification that gets interesting.  We definately need to learn some new tactics though.

We would have to sign amazingly well and even better than last summer to be anywhere close to 4th in 12 months time imo.

This season is a bit like 15/16, likes of West Ham and obviously Leicester finished above Liverpool and Chelsea. Have a look at the table and points difference between top 6 and 7th the next season.

Those teams will do what they always do and sack managers and/or spend 200m and go again.

Top half should be the target this season and then try to finish 7th or 8th next season and also have a good cup run. Then perhaps we can push on the following year although I suspect a couple of our star players might be thinking about their peak years by then so hopefully our squad will be stronger to deal with it.

I expect we will spend heavily again though, which I'm not sure some of the others can.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Bobby Boy on February 21, 2021, 05:18:02 PM
Quote from: Ian. on February 21, 2021, 04:44:18 PM
Smith needs to be brave now, drop Barkley and trust Sanson and Ramsey to start and push McGinn further forward.

Dean shouldn't need to be brave to leave Barkley out if players are chosen on performances. Nakamba has been left out recently having played well in his previous game.

No-one apart from Barkley, Barkley's mum or his agent could complain if he was left out based on recent performances.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on February 21, 2021, 05:20:10 PM
Quote from: Bobby Boy on February 21, 2021, 05:18:02 PM
Quote from: Ian. on February 21, 2021, 04:44:18 PM
Smith needs to be brave now, drop Barkley and trust Sanson and Ramsey to start and push McGinn further forward.

Dean shouldn't need to be brave to leave Barkley out if players are chosen on performances. Nakamba has been left out recently having played well in his previous game.

No-one apart from Barkley, Barkley's mum or his agent could complain if he was left out based on recent performances.

Or perhaps the Chelsea lawyer who wrote the terms of his loan deal?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on February 21, 2021, 05:24:29 PM
Quote from: Ads on February 21, 2021, 05:17:42 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on February 21, 2021, 05:15:24 PM
Quote from: ez on February 21, 2021, 04:59:59 PM
Anywhere in the top half would be a good season. Its next season and the push for champions league qualification that gets interesting.  We definately need to learn some new tactics though.

We would have to sign amazingly well and even better than last summer to be anywhere close to 4th in 12 months time imo.

This season is a bit like 15/16, likes of West Ham and obviously Leicester finished above Liverpool and Chelsea. Have a look at the table and points difference between top 6 and 7th the next season.

Those teams will do what they always do and sack managers and/or spend 200m and go again.

Top half should be the target this season and then try to finish 7th or 8th next season and also have a good cup run. Then perhaps we can push on the following year although I suspect a couple of our star players might be thinking about their peak years by then so hopefully our squad will be stronger to deal with it.

I expect we will spend heavily again though, which I'm not sure some of the others can.

FFP has limited us a bit according to Purslow over last two years so would help if we could start moving on squad players for 5-10m like most of our rivals can do with ease. Hourihane, El Ghazi and Nakamba all fit into that category and at least their general performances this season for us and someone else have kept their values reasonably good, we should be getting at least 5m for Hourihane given his impact at Swansea for instance.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 21, 2021, 05:26:30 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on February 21, 2021, 05:24:29 PM
Quote from: Ads on February 21, 2021, 05:17:42 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on February 21, 2021, 05:15:24 PM
Quote from: ez on February 21, 2021, 04:59:59 PM
Anywhere in the top half would be a good season. Its next season and the push for champions league qualification that gets interesting.  We definately need to learn some new tactics though.

We would have to sign amazingly well and even better than last summer to be anywhere close to 4th in 12 months time imo.

This season is a bit like 15/16, likes of West Ham and obviously Leicester finished above Liverpool and Chelsea. Have a look at the table and points difference between top 6 and 7th the next season.

Those teams will do what they always do and sack managers and/or spend 200m and go again.

Top half should be the target this season and then try to finish 7th or 8th next season and also have a good cup run. Then perhaps we can push on the following year although I suspect a couple of our star players might be thinking about their peak years by then so hopefully our squad will be stronger to deal with it.

I expect we will spend heavily again though, which I'm not sure some of the others can.

FFP has limited us a bit according to Purslow over last two years so would help if we could start moving on squad players for 5-10m like most of our rivals can do with ease. Hourihane, El Ghazi and Nakamba all fit into that category and at least their general performances this season for us and someone else have kept their values reasonably good, we should be getting at least 5m for Hourihane given his impact at Swansea for instance.

Think we could get £10m for Trez too. £15m for both Trez and El Ghazi and somebody of real quality coming in would strengthen the squad.

Be interested to see if Ramsey can play as a wide attacking midfielder/forward too.

Horuihane and Nakamba are also a pair we could get money for.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OCD on February 21, 2021, 06:31:05 PM
Being assured of a third year of Premier League football should make a difference to FFP too. We couldn't afford to offer Callum Wilson the same wages that Newcastle could, for instance, which was said to be down to FFP.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on February 21, 2021, 06:34:57 PM
We've lost 5 of the last 9 now. It's probably time to make a little change. Same players same formation same tactics week in week out isn't enough.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mellin on February 21, 2021, 06:43:51 PM
Yeah, it's time to change things up. We've shipped too much water to have an incredible season now, but could still have a very good one.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on February 21, 2021, 06:55:58 PM
Fuming Dean Smith bemoaned a triple whammy after Aston Villa skipper Jack Grealish was ruled out.

Smith revealed he pulled Grealish out of training on Friday after the star suffered discomfort in his leg.

The Villa boss was then further frustrated to see online rumours emerge over the weekend of Grealish's injury which alerted the Foxes.

To deepen Smith's woes, Leicester capitalised to exploit the absence of Villa's talisman in a 2-1 Premier League win.

Boss Smith fumed: “I have been made aware that on social media there have been rumours he wasn't going to play.

“If it has been coming out of our training ground then I will find out where that is coming from and reprimand it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on February 21, 2021, 07:27:45 PM
I recall after we beat them at the Crisp Bowl having a browse over FoxesTalk. Quite a few wanted Rodgers gone. Funny old bunch football fans.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on February 21, 2021, 07:41:21 PM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on February 21, 2021, 06:55:58 PM
Fuming Dean Smith bemoaned a triple whammy after Aston Villa skipper Jack Grealish was ruled out.

Smith revealed he pulled Grealish out of training on Friday after the star suffered discomfort in his leg.

The Villa boss was then further frustrated to see online rumours emerge over the weekend of Grealish's injury which alerted the Foxes.

To deepen Smith's woes, Leicester capitalised to exploit the absence of Villa's talisman in a 2-1 Premier League win.

Boss Smith fumed: “I have been made aware that on social media there have been rumours he wasn't going to play.

“If it has been coming out of our training ground then I will find out where that is coming from and reprimand it.

Deano would best off reprimanding the likes of Ross Barkley and his shameful performance today rather than worrying about rumours online about Jack's injury (which judging by Leicester's starting line up they weren't aware of). Seems like deflection tactics in truth.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan82 on February 22, 2021, 12:28:20 AM
He hasn't used the squad properly. We had a tonne of games in a short period and he rarely rotated or during games made changes.

He's a good manager but that aspect needs to improve if he wants to get to the next level. I am sure he will.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Scott Nielsen on February 22, 2021, 02:02:47 AM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on February 21, 2021, 05:20:10 PM
Quote from: Bobby Boy on February 21, 2021, 05:18:02 PM
Quote from: Ian. on February 21, 2021, 04:44:18 PM
Smith needs to be brave now, drop Barkley and trust Sanson and Ramsey to start and push McGinn further forward.

Dean shouldn't need to be brave to leave Barkley out if players are chosen on performances. Nakamba has been left out recently having played well in his previous game.

No-one apart from Barkley, Barkley's mum or his agent could complain if he was left out based on recent performances.

Or perhaps the Chelsea lawyer who wrote the terms of his loan deal?

Surely we (or anyone else) would never sign a contract stipulating someone is guaranteed a starting position. I just can't belive that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Scott Nielsen on February 22, 2021, 02:11:59 AM
I will just never understand football managers. Anyone and everyone who has watched us this season spotted the starting midfield yesterday would not work. And, crucially, we did have other options available to us. Yet Smith, who is a professional of the game, with decades of training and hard-earned footballing experience, does not see it. Obviously he knows much more about football than I ever will. So what could his thought-process have been? It's incomprehensible to me.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ROBBO on February 22, 2021, 03:53:47 AM
We still have games in hand, DS has to be more ruthless in his team selection, keep going to back El Gahzi and Trez, and crossing his fingers that Barkley will finally come good will not cut it anymore.
Since the new year we have relied on JG to much, we are not going down so play a couple of the kids, at least they will be wanting to prove themselves.
I notice how Leicester bring their kids through and made a tonne of money doing it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sid1964 on February 22, 2021, 07:13:55 AM
We wont play the kids as most on here only want £50 million + superstars
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: N'ZMAV on February 22, 2021, 07:27:07 AM
Quote from: sid1964 on February 22, 2021, 07:13:55 AM
We wont play the kids as most on here only want £50 million + superstars
you'll probably find that most on here would rather see Ramsey play instead of superstar Ross Barkley.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on February 22, 2021, 07:32:00 AM
Quote from: sid1964 on February 22, 2021, 07:13:55 AM
We wont play the kids as most on here only want £50 million + superstars
I’m sure Smith doesn’t make decisions based on a relatively few people on a forum and most comments I’ve seen before yesterday and we would rather see Ramsey and Sanson in the team and were also hoping to see Kelser in the squad.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ez on February 22, 2021, 07:43:35 AM
Quote from: Scott Nielsen on February 22, 2021, 02:02:47 AM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on February 21, 2021, 05:20:10 PM
Quote from: Bobby Boy on February 21, 2021, 05:18:02 PM
Quote from: Ian. on February 21, 2021, 04:44:18 PM
Smith needs to be brave now, drop Barkley and trust Sanson and Ramsey to start and push McGinn further forward.

Dean shouldn't need to be brave to leave Barkley out if players are chosen on performances. Nakamba has been left out recently having played well in his previous game.

No-one apart from Barkley, Barkley's mum or his agent could complain if he was left out based on recent performances.

Or perhaps the Chelsea lawyer who wrote the terms of his loan deal?

Surely we (or anyone else) would never sign a contract stipulating someone is guaranteed a starting position. I just can't belive that.

Perhaps you're more old school like me, when a player had a bad game he was dropped and someone else was given a chance. Its obviously not like that anymore.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: nick harper on February 22, 2021, 08:37:41 AM
Quote from: Scott Nielsen on February 22, 2021, 02:11:59 AM
I will just never understand football managers. Anyone and everyone who has watched us this season spotted the starting midfield yesterday would not work. And, crucially, we did have other options available to us. Yet Smith, who is a professional of the game, with decades of training and hard-earned footballing experience, does not see it. Obviously he knows much more about football than I ever will. So what could his thought-process have been? It's incomprehensible to me.

I agree with this. Most on here commented that we needed to have a more conservative shape in midfield and not give them the space to play in front of our back four, and to give Elmo protection in front of Barnes, as Leicester had planned for Grealish.

Instead it was the same personnel and shape, and the game was as good as done after 23 minutes, both goals coming from far too much space around the penalty area. The gap between our midfield and back four was huge - it was as if we’d never heard of Maddison.

I get that Smith wants teams to worry about us, but there are too many good sides to just ignore the threat the opposition pose.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan82 on February 22, 2021, 09:25:35 AM
Quote
I get that Smith wants teams to worry about us, but there are too many good sides to just ignore the threat the opposition pose.

Until he changed direction for the final ten games and made us harder to beat that approach almost relegated us last season.

Teams rarely go a whole season with the same side and formation. Either teams figure out how to nullify it or circumstances (like injuries or the opposition) dictate there needs to be a change.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 22, 2021, 09:30:14 AM
Quote from: Villan82 on February 22, 2021, 09:25:35 AM
Quote
I get that Smith wants teams to worry about us, but there are too many good sides to just ignore the threat the opposition pose.

Until he changed direction for the final ten games and made us harder to beat that approach almost relegated us last season.


Which makes it baffling why he has reverted to allowing opposition teams free hits on goal.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on February 22, 2021, 09:43:24 AM
I thought he was poor yesterday. We should have kept things extremely tight for an hour or so and wait to see if Leicester tired after their Europa trip.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on February 22, 2021, 10:43:06 AM
Maybe Smith is a bit over confident now that we have Martinez in goal? That and his belief in our own attacking ability.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Bobby Boy on February 22, 2021, 10:52:53 AM
Quote from: aj2k77 on February 22, 2021, 09:43:24 AM
I thought he was poor yesterday. We should have kept things extremely tight for an hour or so and wait to see if Leicester tired after their Europa trip.

We were so open it was untrue. Presumably though Dean doesn't decide how we are set up on his own. Shakespeare, Terry and O'Reilly must have a say. Someone has to be seeing what we are.

We were 16th in shots conceded in the league until yesterday. The defence is sound, Watkins works hard but the midfield is all wrong. We have been porous all season despite the clean sheets. Recently the shots against us per game have been terrible, back to last season levels.

Let's pick a midfield that is stout, compact and competes. Seriously, back to basics.

In the immediate future we can't be that open against Leeds. We need to be mobile and aggressive in midfield. No passengers.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OCD on February 22, 2021, 11:22:28 AM
Smith believes in the Expected Goal's statistic so he must then acknowledge that we're no longer doing what got us into contention for the European places.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: stubbsyandy on February 22, 2021, 11:31:27 AM
I really like Dean snd believe he’s developing into a good manager but recently he’s been out thought by Rodgers, Potter and Moyes..I hope he’s learning from these experiences
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Baldy on February 22, 2021, 11:51:53 AM
Dean used to be the West Midlands Chess Champion when at school. Evidence of a highly strategical mind.

Jack is our Queen, can roam everywhere. Mings our castle, a fortress. McGinn our bishop, great diagonals. Martinez our knight, great leap. Lots of pawns.

Barkley is our King. Only moves a bit.  :)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: danno on February 22, 2021, 11:55:17 AM
Quote from: Baldy on February 22, 2021, 11:51:53 AM
Dean used to be the West Midlands Chess Champion when at school. Evidence of a highly strategical mind.

Jack is our Queen, can move everywhere. Mings our castle, a fortress. McGinn our bishop, great diagonals. Martinez our knight, great leap. Lots of pawns.

Barkley is our King. Only moves a bit.  :)

Brilliant.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 22, 2021, 11:56:17 AM
Quote from: Baldy on February 22, 2021, 11:51:53 AM
Dean used to be the West Midlands Chess Champion when at school. Evidence of a highly strategical mind.

Jack is our Queen, can roam everywhere. Mings our castle, a fortress. McGinn our bishop, great diagonals. Martinez our knight, great leap. Lots of pawns.

Barkley is our King. Only moves a bit.  :)

We should sign Souček, he could be our Czech mate.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Bobby Boy on February 22, 2021, 12:06:23 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 22, 2021, 11:56:17 AM
Quote from: Baldy on February 22, 2021, 11:51:53 AM
Dean used to be the West Midlands Chess Champion when at school. Evidence of a highly strategical mind.

Jack is our Queen, can roam everywhere. Mings our castle, a fortress. McGinn our bishop, great diagonals. Martinez our knight, great leap. Lots of pawns.

Barkley is our King. Only moves a bit.  :)

We should sign Souček, he could be our Czech mate.

Tish Boom!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 22, 2021, 12:13:42 PM
The last ten games have seen us average a point a game, which after a great start to the season is really disappointing, and in terms of points extrapolated over a season is staying up by the skin of your teeth territory. We're also back to giving up c.20 shots a game, which is the problem we had all season up until the break last year. Given how much the first team has improved, what's gone wrong?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 22, 2021, 12:23:39 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 22, 2021, 12:13:42 PM
The last ten games have seen us average a point a game, which after a great start to the season is really disappointing, and in terms of points extrapolated over a season is staying up by the skin of your teeth territory. We're also back to giveing up c.20 shots a game, which is the problem we had all season up until the break last year. Given how much the first team has improved, what's gone wrong?
Lazy team selection and stubbornness.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on February 22, 2021, 01:19:53 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 22, 2021, 12:13:42 PM
The last ten games have seen us average a point a game, which after a great start to the season is really disappointing, and in terms of points extrapolated over a season is staying up by the skin of your teeth territory. We're also back to giving up c.20 shots a game, which is the problem we had all season up until the break last year. Given how much the first team has improved, what's gone wrong?
Deano winning manager of the month in December.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT on February 22, 2021, 01:23:05 PM
Quote from: Baldy on February 22, 2021, 11:51:53 AM
Dean used to be the West Midlands Chess Champion when at school. Evidence of a highly strategical mind.

Jack is our Queen, can roam everywhere. Mings our castle, a fortress. McGinn our bishop, great diagonals. Martinez our knight, great leap. Lots of pawns.

Barkley is our King. Only moves a bit.  :)

We've definitely played better at knight this season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on February 22, 2021, 01:42:33 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 22, 2021, 12:13:42 PM
The last ten games have seen us average a point a game, which after a great start to the season is really disappointing, and in terms of points extrapolated over a season is staying up by the skin of your teeth territory. We're also back to giving up c.20 shots a game, which is the problem we had all season up until the break last year. Given how much the first team has improved, what's gone wrong?


11 Points from last 10 matches.

Losses to Man City (isn't everyone) Man Utd (typical), Burnley (how the fuck did that happen?), West ham (great run in Chumps League places), and Leicester (doing really well). The only one to be really disappointed with would be Burnley in my view though West Ham potentially too.

Draws to Chelsea (not bad really), Brighton (the form team other than Man City).

Wins against Newcastle (quite right too), Southampton (good result that), and Arsenal (another positive result).

Chelsea - D
Man Utd - L
Man City - L
Newcastle - W
Burnley - L
Southampton - W
West Ham - L
Arsenal - W
Brighton - D
Leicester - L

I don't think those results look to bad in the context of where we finished last season and in the way we're developing. Over the course of the season, we're doing better than we would probably have expected to, but it's a shame our earlier really promising form has dropped off a bit.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on February 22, 2021, 02:25:38 PM
We haven't freshened things up at all. Players naturally go through peaks and troughs performance wise. We've stuck rigidly to the same formation and same players pretty much through thick and thin. If it's Leicester at home after they've had a midweek game in Europe or Brighton away after a week off we approach the game in exactly the same manner.

We need a little more nuance to our approach and we need to rotate out of form players.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on February 22, 2021, 02:46:19 PM
Too loyal to certain players currently.

Not sure if he's star strucked by Ross Barkley or there's some clause in the loan deal he has to play but he really needs to come out of the team now so I'd be amazed if the midfield isn't freshened up now and it really has to given who we play next.

I get we're trying to ease in Sanson in slowly but this isn't some 18 year old kid, he's played at top level in France and europe for many years so well overdue a start and perhaps we'll see Ramsey at Leeds too.

It may not work but the regular 11 has hit the wall currently.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on February 22, 2021, 02:55:11 PM
Is he intimidated by Barkley? He's probably the most high-profile player he's ever managed (Jack is different as he came through the ranks and we were a Ch'shit club when Dean took over).
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on February 22, 2021, 03:10:46 PM
Quote from: eamonn on February 22, 2021, 02:55:11 PM
Is he intimidated by Barkley? He's probably the most high-profile player he's ever managed (Jack is different as he came through the ranks and we were a Ch'shit club when Dean took over).

No, and Terry and Shakespeare won't be either.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on February 22, 2021, 03:16:43 PM
As has been said before, if you loan a player then there is an understanding that if you don't play him you haven't as much chance of getting another loan from the same club (and before anyone says how terrible it is that we're doing what Chelsea want how low have we fallen, that's the current reality). Plus, managers sometimes fancy, or don't, a player, as we saw with Lansbury, who was given every chance before he got binned.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: danno on February 22, 2021, 03:18:12 PM
We changed personnel and formation a bit last season, desperately trying to find any combination that could get us points.

It's understandable after getting 36 points he's reluctant to change things too much, but I think it must be time now. We've underwhelmed for a few weeks.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 22, 2021, 03:32:51 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on February 22, 2021, 03:16:43 PM
As has been said before, if you loan a player then there is an understanding that if you don't play him you haven't as much chance of getting another loan from the same club (and before anyone says how terrible it is that we're doing what Chelsea want how low have we fallen, that's the current reality). Plus, managers sometimes fancy, or don't, a player, as we saw with Lansbury, who was given every chance before he got binned.

I really do hope that our chances of future success aren't based on Chelsea loaning us any more players. It was fine when we were in the Championship needing to get out, and excusable this season taking a chance on Barkley, but next year will be our third year back, so I hope that we'll just be looking to buy the players we need to continue to improve. By my reckoning they us more than we owe them anyway, after paying some of Drinkwater's wages last year, and now doing the same with Barkley.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on February 22, 2021, 03:46:19 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 22, 2021, 01:42:33 PM
I don't think those results look to bad in the context of where we finished last season and in the way we're developing. Over the course of the season, we're doing better than we would probably have expected to, but it's a shame our earlier really promising form has dropped off a bit.

I could probably take the results (just, I'm still angry about the penalty at Old Trafford) if we were still performing well. The problem is we aren't and are fast putting in performances that wouldn't have looked out of place last season.

I'm not one who thinks we should keep looking back and be grateful to how we have progressed since our return, we've all seen week after week what this team are capable of and that should be the benchmark. Right now we're getting more wrong than right and something needs to change. The squad is decent enough to drop players out of form and for me the problem lies in our rigid formation. It was highlighted yesterday against a fluid Leicester, our movement both with and without the ball was shocking.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on February 22, 2021, 05:01:47 PM
Quote from: danno on February 22, 2021, 03:18:12 PM
We changed personnel and formation a bit last season, desperately trying to find any combination that could get us points.
It's understandable after getting 36 points he's reluctant to change things too much, but I think it must be time now. We've underwhelmed for a few weeks.
I would say that this is exactly the time to freshen it up.
We're safe, we've been playing okay, the spine of the side is still strong: use the rest of this season to strengthen for next season by blooding players who might well be required.
So, give Sanson, Ramsey, Kesler and - when fit - Barry some game time. Far better to do so when the side is essentially playing okay; far better to develop than to continue with the old tired and tested if that ain't working for you (Elmo, Trez and Barkley).
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on February 22, 2021, 05:22:36 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 22, 2021, 03:32:51 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on February 22, 2021, 03:16:43 PM
As has been said before, if you loan a player then there is an understanding that if you don't play him you haven't as much chance of getting another loan from the same club (and before anyone says how terrible it is that we're doing what Chelsea want how low have we fallen, that's the current reality). Plus, managers sometimes fancy, or don't, a player, as we saw with Lansbury, who was given every chance before he got binned.

I really do hope that our chances of future success aren't based on Chelsea loaning us any more players. It was fine when we were in the Championship needing to get out, and excusable this season taking a chance on Barkley, but next year will be our third year back, so I hope that we'll just be looking to buy the players we need to continue to improve. By my reckoning they us more than we owe them anyway, after paying some of Drinkwater's wages last year, and now doing the same with Barkley.
Mayby if we sell a few this summer and make a tidy profit, another season under our belts, a decent standing in the league will all help to our FFP and these loan signings will be a thing of the past.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Smithy on February 22, 2021, 08:30:04 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 22, 2021, 01:42:33 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 22, 2021, 12:13:42 PM
The last ten games have seen us average a point a game, which after a great start to the season is really disappointing, and in terms of points extrapolated over a season is staying up by the skin of your teeth territory. We're also back to giving up c.20 shots a game, which is the problem we had all season up until the break last year. Given how much the first team has improved, what's gone wrong?


11 Points from last 10 matches.

Losses to Man City (isn't everyone) Man Utd (typical), Burnley (how the fuck did that happen?), West ham (great run in Chumps League places), and Leicester (doing really well). The only one to be really disappointed with would be Burnley in my view though West Ham potentially too.

Draws to Chelsea (not bad really), Brighton (the form team other than Man City).

Wins against Newcastle (quite right too), Southampton (good result that), and Arsenal (another positive result).

Chelsea - D
Man Utd - L
Man City - L
Newcastle - W
Burnley - L
Southampton - W
West Ham - L
Arsenal - W
Brighton - D
Leicester - L

I don't think those results look to bad in the context of where we finished last season and in the way we're developing. Over the course of the season, we're doing better than we would probably have expected to, but it's a shame our earlier really promising form has dropped off a bit.

I think it's the drop-off in form in the way we've played that's causing concern.  I don't think there is a fan on these pages who wouldn't have snapped your hand off for 36 points and 8th place after 23 games before a ball was kicked this season. 

The problem is that compared to 25 points after 13 games (I think that's what we had?) it feels a bit like we've fallen away lately?  Swap those two bits of form around (25 points from the most recent 13 games) and everyone would be happy, and feel like we're progressing nicely as a team. But having started the way we did, and seeing a few bad habits from last season creep back in (like the number of shots we're conceding), you can't help but feel a *little* disappointed with things right now.  Of course, a couple of wins will change that very easily!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on February 22, 2021, 09:42:38 PM
Rather worryingly Dean has refused to acknowledge that Barkleys form has dipped.  And keeps referring to the time out with injury.  I think he will be starting again on Saturday.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on February 22, 2021, 09:45:15 PM
Or like someone else has said he isn’t going to have a go at his players in public.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on February 22, 2021, 10:11:22 PM
Quote from: Ian. on February 22, 2021, 09:45:15 PM
Or like someone else has said he isn’t going to have a go at his players in public.

Absolutely the right thing to do.  You never know when you really need a player to dig in and give you everything.  Some players really need a cuddle or arm round the shoulder.  Slagging them off in public rarely ends well.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 22, 2021, 10:20:33 PM
There is a difference between sticking up for your player and coming out with Bollocks like , “his output has been really good on the pitch”
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on February 22, 2021, 11:01:53 PM
Quote from: Scott Nielsen on February 22, 2021, 02:02:47 AM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on February 21, 2021, 05:20:10 PM
Quote from: Bobby Boy on February 21, 2021, 05:18:02 PM
Quote from: Ian. on February 21, 2021, 04:44:18 PM
Smith needs to be brave now, drop Barkley and trust Sanson and Ramsey to start and push McGinn further forward.

Dean shouldn't need to be brave to leave Barkley out if players are chosen on performances. Nakamba has been left out recently having played well in his previous game.

No-one apart from Barkley, Barkley's mum or his agent could complain if he was left out based on recent performances.

Or perhaps the Chelsea lawyer who wrote the terms of his loan deal?

Surely we (or anyone else) would never sign a contract stipulating someone is guaranteed a starting position. I just can't belive that.

Peter Schmeichel.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TelfordVilla on February 22, 2021, 11:12:15 PM
Peter Schmchael was our player not some waster  on loan
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on February 22, 2021, 11:13:53 PM
Quote from: TelfordVilla on February 22, 2021, 11:12:15 PM
Peter Schmchael was our player not some waster  on loan

His contract stipulated that he had to start if fit.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Scott Nielsen on February 23, 2021, 02:56:30 AM
Quote from: Legion on February 22, 2021, 11:13:53 PM
Quote from: TelfordVilla on February 22, 2021, 11:12:15 PM
Peter Schmchael was our player not some waster  on loan

His contract stipulated that he had to start if fit.

Not quite, if this article is to be believed.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2002/0412/163431-astonvilla/

I am not surprised gentlemen's agreements may be in place sometimes but that is not the same as having it written into a formal contract. Of course, Smith/Villa may have a non-contractual agreement with Barkley/Chelsea that amounts to the same thing in practice.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tony scott on February 23, 2021, 03:08:51 AM
I think our last 10 games (I know selective) points is pushing relegation form.  This has to be addressed quickly, our inability to rotate the squad is going to hurt us.  Ross Barkley SJM and Douglas Luis ,are all underperforming we have midfielders in the squad, who are of an unknown quality, give each one them 4 starts and the aforementioned trio a rest.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: algy on February 23, 2021, 07:16:50 AM
Overall form-wise we don't look much different to any other team in the 5th-10th places. Over the last 5 games we've picked up exactly the same number of points as Everton, for example, and considerably more than Spurs have.

I think just a bit of patience with Dean and all would go a long way. We're now (IMO) looking like a top half team. Not one of the heavyweights, but not a side who many sides will expect to get 6pts off either.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: oldhill_avfc on February 23, 2021, 07:28:16 AM
Quote from: tony scott on February 23, 2021, 03:08:51 AM
I think our last 10 games (I know selective) points is pushing relegation form.  This has to be addressed quickly, our inability to rotate the squad is going to hurt us.  Ross Barkley SJM and Douglas Luis ,are all underperforming we have midfielders in the squad, who are of an unknown quality, give each one them 4 starts and the aforementioned trio a rest.

No it’s not - it’s decidedly mid table.  If you look at the last 10 games the Burnley and West Ham results are the only ones where the result really disappoints.

Having said that, the real challenge is not to let such a good start slip and that does mean changes to both both personnel and tactics especially as Jack is out.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on February 23, 2021, 08:00:20 AM
Quote from: Scott Nielsen on February 23, 2021, 02:56:30 AM
Quote from: Legion on February 22, 2021, 11:13:53 PM
Quote from: TelfordVilla on February 22, 2021, 11:12:15 PM
Peter Schmchael was our player not some waster  on loan

His contract stipulated that he had to start if fit.

Not quite, if this article is to be believed.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2002/0412/163431-astonvilla/

I am not surprised gentlemen's agreements may be in place sometimes but that is not the same as having it written into a formal contract. Of course, Smith/Villa may have a non-contractual agreement with Barkley/Chelsea that amounts to the same thing in practice.

Thanks for that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Bent Neilsens Screamer on February 23, 2021, 08:03:17 AM
Quote from: Risso on February 22, 2021, 03:32:51 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on February 22, 2021, 03:16:43 PM
As has been said before, if you loan a player then there is an understanding that if you don't play him you haven't as much chance of getting another loan from the same club (and before anyone says how terrible it is that we're doing what Chelsea want how low have we fallen, that's the current reality). Plus, managers sometimes fancy, or don't, a player, as we saw with Lansbury, who was given every chance before he got binned.

I really do hope that our chances of future success aren't based on Chelsea loaning us any more players. It was fine when we were in the Championship needing to get out, and excusable this season taking a chance on Barkley, but next year will be our third year back, so I hope that we'll just be looking to buy the players we need to continue to improve. By my reckoning they us more than we owe them anyway, after paying some of Drinkwater's wages last year, and now doing the same with Barkley.

I’m not too hung up on loans, they serve a purpose for the biggest of clubs. I’d much rather Barkley turning these performances in knowing that we can give him back instead of thinking, shit, we’ve just spunked £40m on him. Saying that the loan fee of £11m, I heard ,feels like a transfer and judging by Smith’s selections he feels the same.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on February 23, 2021, 08:10:47 AM
Quote from: algy on February 23, 2021, 07:16:50 AM
Overall form-wise we don't look much different to any other team in the 5th-10th places. Over the last 5 games we've picked up exactly the same number of points as Everton, for example, and considerably more than Spurs have.

I think just a bit of patience with Dean and all would go a long way. We're now (IMO) looking like a top half team. Not one of the heavyweights, but not a side who many sides will expect to get 6pts off either.

Yep that’s very true Algy.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on February 23, 2021, 08:44:59 AM
Quote from: tony scott on February 23, 2021, 03:08:51 AM
I think our last 10 games (I know selective) points is pushing relegation form.  This has to be addressed quickly, our inability to rotate the squad is going to hurt us.  Ross Barkley SJM and Douglas Luis ,are all underperforming we have midfielders in the squad, who are of an unknown quality, give each one them 4 starts and the aforementioned trio a rest.
11 points in 10 games means we would probably stay up if that was indicative of the whole season.
It isn't.
Clearly our form has dipped, but - with 36 points in the bag - now is the time for Smith to give other members of the squad some game time and get them ready for next season. I'm thinking Sanson, Ramsey, Kesler and  - when fit - Barry. Possibly, Chuk as well.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on February 23, 2021, 09:00:35 AM
Quote from: Bent Neilsens Screamer on February 23, 2021, 08:03:17 AM
Quote from: Risso on February 22, 2021, 03:32:51 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on February 22, 2021, 03:16:43 PM
As has been said before, if you loan a player then there is an understanding that if you don't play him you haven't as much chance of getting another loan from the same club (and before anyone says how terrible it is that we're doing what Chelsea want how low have we fallen, that's the current reality). Plus, managers sometimes fancy, or don't, a player, as we saw with Lansbury, who was given every chance before he got binned.

I really do hope that our chances of future success aren't based on Chelsea loaning us any more players. It was fine when we were in the Championship needing to get out, and excusable this season taking a chance on Barkley, but next year will be our third year back, so I hope that we'll just be looking to buy the players we need to continue to improve. By my reckoning they us more than we owe them anyway, after paying some of Drinkwater's wages last year, and now doing the same with Barkley.

I’m not too hung up on loans, they serve a purpose for the biggest of clubs. I’d much rather Barkley turning these performances in knowing that we can give him back instead of thinking, shit, we’ve just spunked £40m on him. Saying that the loan fee of £11m, I heard ,feels like a transfer and judging by Smith’s selections he feels the same.

I agree loans are fine, by and large, but we shouldn't continue to play Barkley just to increase Chelsea's chances of loaning players to us in the future, was my point. Now we're at the stage where we're getting closer to competing with them I can't imagine they'll be too keen to do us too many favours going forward anyway.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on February 23, 2021, 11:24:53 AM
Quote from: Smithy on February 22, 2021, 08:30:04 PM
Quote from: Drummond on February 22, 2021, 01:42:33 PM
Quote from: Risso on February 22, 2021, 12:13:42 PM
The last ten games have seen us average a point a game, which after a great start to the season is really disappointing, and in terms of points extrapolated over a season is staying up by the skin of your teeth territory. We're also back to giving up c.20 shots a game, which is the problem we had all season up until the break last year. Given how much the first team has improved, what's gone wrong?


11 Points from last 10 matches.

Losses to Man City (isn't everyone) Man Utd (typical), Burnley (how the fuck did that happen?), West ham (great run in Chumps League places), and Leicester (doing really well). The only one to be really disappointed with would be Burnley in my view though West Ham potentially too.

Draws to Chelsea (not bad really), Brighton (the form team other than Man City).

Wins against Newcastle (quite right too), Southampton (good result that), and Arsenal (another positive result).

Chelsea - D
Man Utd - L
Man City - L
Newcastle - W
Burnley - L
Southampton - W
West Ham - L
Arsenal - W
Brighton - D
Leicester - L

I don't think those results look to bad in the context of where we finished last season and in the way we're developing. Over the course of the season, we're doing better than we would probably have expected to, but it's a shame our earlier really promising form has dropped off a bit.

I think it's the drop-off in form in the way we've played that's causing concern.  I don't think there is a fan on these pages who wouldn't have snapped your hand off for 36 points and 8th place after 23 games before a ball was kicked this season. 

The problem is that compared to 25 points after 13 games (I think that's what we had?) it feels a bit like we've fallen away lately?  Swap those two bits of form around (25 points from the most recent 13 games) and everyone would be happy, and feel like we're progressing nicely as a team. But having started the way we did, and seeing a few bad habits from last season creep back in (like the number of shots we're conceding), you can't help but feel a *little* disappointed with things right now.  Of course, a couple of wins will change that very easily!

Oh I agree, I felt flat again after Sunday, it's the hope that kills you. Though we got better and back into the game, we were clearly second best. I don't want to accept it, or bow down to anyone else but at the same time, we have to realise where we were two years ago and the progress we've made and are still making. 

We're still pushing well, our form over the past 10 games has dropped off but extrapolated over a season would have had us in 15th place last year so not even relegation form. Improvement but this is our bad spell. We were never going to maintain our early form were we? (Though I was dreaming about it...)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 23, 2021, 12:07:05 PM
All clubs have a poor run of form this season (Citeh had theirs early).
I was hoping that we would put one of those runs together to get us knocking on the Top 4 door but a combination of fatigue, errors, and poor team selection has so far stymied us.

There is always hope we go on a charge, midtable mediocrity is dull.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on February 23, 2021, 12:21:30 PM
Eminently preferable to an 'exciting' relegation dog-fight.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Meanwood Villa on February 23, 2021, 12:35:25 PM
Yes we were all wishing for a nice dull season in the summer I'm sure. Europe has become the target but Jack's injury puts a significant spanner in the works. Just hope we don't completely stumble over the line and only pick up two or three more wins because I think that will puncture a lot of the feelgood there is at the moment.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 23, 2021, 12:50:20 PM
Quote from: Legion on February 23, 2021, 12:21:30 PM
Eminently preferable to an 'exciting' relegation dog-fight.
There is a bit of me that actually likes being involved right to the end of the season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave shelley on February 23, 2021, 04:23:34 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 23, 2021, 12:50:20 PM
Quote from: Legion on February 23, 2021, 12:21:30 PM
Eminently preferable to an 'exciting' relegation dog-fight.
There is a bit of me that actually likes being involved right to the end of the season.

Not for me, nothing like being safe at the earliest possible moment.  I feel if you have the correct structure in place then you can use the time for introducing promising youth and acclimatising them into the method they will be expected to play.  Also, time for the management to experiment with new formations.  Challenging for European positions notwithstanding.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: exigo on February 23, 2021, 06:48:58 PM
10,000 fans in for the last home game of the season. Carnival atmosphere. Yes, it would be nice to have Europe going into it, but I'll celebrate 10th at that game like it's the best thing that's happened in a long while.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OCD on February 23, 2021, 06:52:01 PM
Will the Premier League approve the last game letting fans back in though? Only the teams who were drawn to be at home in the last game of the season will benefit so I wouldn't be surprised if they put it off until next season. For the sake of one game, they may as well wait until August when I assume capacity crowds will be allowed in again.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: exigo on February 23, 2021, 06:55:42 PM
Course they will. Clubs will demand it.
Villa haven't had a fan in all season, so would argue that the likes of Liverpool, Everton and the south coast teams had an advantage earlier in the season when they had 2,000 and 4,000 in.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on February 23, 2021, 06:55:49 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on February 23, 2021, 12:50:20 PM
Quote from: Legion on February 23, 2021, 12:21:30 PM
Eminently preferable to an 'exciting' relegation dog-fight.
There is a bit of me that actually likes being involved right to the end of the season.

Boring mid-table will mean an extra £20 million or so in prize money.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 27, 2021, 08:23:54 PM
Great to see Dean change our tactical approach to counter Leeds. Great work.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 27, 2021, 08:42:08 PM
Spot on tonight. Back to being hard to beat. Organisation was excellent.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TonyD on February 27, 2021, 09:04:56 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on February 27, 2021, 08:23:54 PM
Great to see Dean change our tactical approach to counter Leeds. Great work.
Absolutely.

Very satisfying and above all - an important big next step to us eventually winning something
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: N'ZMAV on February 27, 2021, 09:11:18 PM
Nice to see Deano execute a different plan today - something many of us had wondered if he was capable of. Great stuff.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mellin on February 27, 2021, 09:14:43 PM
Yep, pleased about the changes in centre mid. Big increase in energy and an improved performance off the back of it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on February 27, 2021, 09:55:15 PM
I was so pleased with his team decisions before KO. It can put to bed we have to play, or he’s too scared to rest Barkley. It was the right thing to do and Ramsey deserves a chance.

I wouldn’t of minded Dougie playing but it was probably right choice to play Nakamba in this game. The balance today was spot on and they all played well.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on February 27, 2021, 10:58:22 PM
Well drilled, disciplined, rang the changes and made sensible subs at the right time.  Brilliant Dean.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Matt C on February 27, 2021, 11:38:42 PM
Tactically spot on, outwitted the opponent with ease and all achieved without the need to sit on a bucket and dress like a tramp.

Bravo, Dean.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Des Little on February 27, 2021, 11:47:26 PM
Full marks to Deano for that today, ticked every box, apart from giving it the full Great Barr and having Richard O’Kelly translate for him during the post match interview.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on February 28, 2021, 02:04:36 AM
Huh?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on March 01, 2021, 01:01:48 PM
Hats off to Smith and co for the improvement we've seen in systems but also individuals this season. I'm so glad that Purslow et al didn't give up on Smith last season because the improvement after the shut down a year ago has been really good to see. The 1:1s he had with players really worked well, which shows to me he's got man-management right but also tactically knows his stuff.

We'll still be inconsistent at times obviously, but as the youngest team in the League surely we can only get better and keep improving. I'm chuffed for him personally too, as a Villa fan himself I'd think that every defeat or poor performance must hurt even more (and the wins so much sweeter).
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on March 01, 2021, 02:52:16 PM
I'm really glad he dropped Barkley for the Leeds match, not because I don't like Barkley, but because I think he was in danger of starting to look a bit in awe of "big name" players. Dropping Barkley and Luiz shows he's the boss, and outthinking Bielsa from start to finish was really good to see as well.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Smithy on March 01, 2021, 03:14:00 PM
Quote from: N'ZMAV on February 27, 2021, 09:11:18 PM
Nice to see Deano execute a different plan today - something many of us had wondered if he was capable of. Great stuff.

Not just that, but two plans within the same game - unheard of! I'll hold my hands up, during the second half I was moaning that we needed fresh legs as our press had completely run out of steam - little did I know it was deliberate, which would explain why he waited so long to make changes - they weren't knackered, they were playing to instruction.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on March 01, 2021, 04:30:53 PM
Quote from: Smithy on March 01, 2021, 03:14:00 PM
Quote from: N'ZMAV on February 27, 2021, 09:11:18 PM
Nice to see Deano execute a different plan today - something many of us had wondered if he was capable of. Great stuff.

Not just that, but two plans within the same game - unheard of! I'll hold my hands up, during the second half I was moaning that we needed fresh legs as our press had completely run out of steam - little did I know it was deliberate, which would explain why he waited so long to make changes - they weren't knackered, they were playing to instruction.


It would never have occurred to me to alter how we were playing because of the pitch. One of their local papers wasn't too happy that despite that not being the first time someone's done similar to them this season, there doesn't seem to be any kind of 'plan b' to try to winkle the opposition out and open the pitch up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 03, 2021, 08:28:17 PM
He got it right against Leeds, he got it wrong tonight.
His ability to follow a good result with a poor result is worrying.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on March 03, 2021, 08:30:23 PM
I can’t see how he can be at fault for over half the team forgetting how to pass the ball with any conviction. It was quite painful to watch.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Monty on March 03, 2021, 08:32:08 PM
Quote from: Ian. on March 03, 2021, 08:30:23 PM
I can’t see how he can be at fault for over half the team forgetting how to pass the ball with any conviction. It was quite painful to watch.

That would be somewhat down to coaching though. They didn't look like they had patterns of movement rehearsed and down.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 03, 2021, 08:38:09 PM
Tonight was the complete antithesis of Saturday. On Saturday it looked like we’d looked at Leeds and set up a tactical plan, and a starting 11, specifically designed to beat them. That was great. Tonight we just put out the same team, with the same plan, against a completely different team. It was so poor and tactically naive.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on March 03, 2021, 08:40:35 PM
Hate watching us play 10 men, we are simply never very convincing at all and drop far too many points.

If we want to become a top level team again we simply can't do that and need to develop ruthless edge in this situation as other teams do when we lose a man.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy65 on March 03, 2021, 08:42:58 PM
Quote from: Monty on March 03, 2021, 08:32:08 PM
Quote from: Ian. on March 03, 2021, 08:30:23 PM
I can’t see how he can be at fault for over half the team forgetting how to pass the ball with any conviction. It was quite painful to watch.

That would be somewhat down to coaching though. They didn't look like they had patterns of movement rehearsed and down.

Agreed. It was just hopeful crosses into the box. Where was the conviction or quality to take players on and make things happen. Shows to me the limitations of the management or players or both.

TBH I though we were poor against Leeds. We defended well but we’re poor offensively. Roles were reversed tonight but again offensively we were really lacking quality
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on March 03, 2021, 08:49:46 PM
Quote from: Rudy65 on March 03, 2021, 08:42:58 PM
Quote from: Monty on March 03, 2021, 08:32:08 PM
Quote from: Ian. on March 03, 2021, 08:30:23 PM
I can’t see how he can be at fault for over half the team forgetting how to pass the ball with any conviction. It was quite painful to watch.

That would be somewhat down to coaching though. They didn't look like they had patterns of movement rehearsed and down.

Agreed. It was just hopeful crosses into the box. Where was the conviction or quality to take players on and make things happen. Shows to me the limitations of the management or players or both.

TBH I though we were poor against Leeds. We defended well but we’re poor offensively. Roles were reversed tonight but again offensively we were really lacking quality

We're good when we have something to hold onto.

Even with this good season we're having it's sobering seeing we've only claimed one point in games we've been behind in at any stage.

Again there's something a bit wrong there and we need to improve on that to become top 6 again in the future.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on March 03, 2021, 08:50:44 PM
The team started sloppily; the first 10-12 minutes were really painful. That is probably down to how the team were prepared. In tonight's case, not well.
As Paul Winch says above, there seemed to be an expectation that the game would be the same as vs Leeds. Clearly, wrong.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 03, 2021, 08:53:55 PM
Another lazy team selection and then not reacting when it wasn’t working.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Uknowthescore on March 03, 2021, 08:54:15 PM
He’s took us as far as he can.  If we’ve got aspirations of being a top 6 club the owners need to get rid in the summer. To be a top 6 club you need a top manager, deano ain’t it I’m afraid
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on March 03, 2021, 08:56:52 PM
Quote from: Uknowthescore on March 03, 2021, 08:54:15 PM
He’s took us as far as he can.  If we’ve got aspirations of being a top 6 club the owners need to get rid in the summer. To be a top 6 club you need a top manager, deano ain’t it I’m afraid

And the winner is........
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on March 03, 2021, 08:56:54 PM
Quote from: Uknowthescore on March 03, 2021, 08:54:15 PM
He’s took us as far as he can.  If we’ve got aspirations of being a top 6 club the owners need to get rid in the summer. To be a top 6 club you need a top manager, deano ain’t it I’m afraid

That’s absolute bollocks, how can you know that? It’s work in progress and since he’s joined he’s done fantastic in a very short space of time. Ridiculous thing to say.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AV82EC on March 03, 2021, 08:58:51 PM
Quote from: Uknowthescore on March 03, 2021, 08:54:15 PM
He’s took us as far as he can.  If we’ve got aspirations of being a top 6 club the owners need to get rid in the summer. To be a top 6 club you need a top manager, deano ain’t it I’m afraid

Utterly clueless comments. Smith deserves some criticism for tonights "performance" but to suggest we need to get rid, deary me.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on March 03, 2021, 09:15:38 PM
Quote from: Uknowthescore on March 03, 2021, 08:54:15 PM
He’s took us as far as he can.  If we’ve got aspirations of being a top 6 club the owners need to get rid in the summer. To be a top 6 club you need a top manager, deano ain’t it I’m afraid

Wow. Just, wow.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on March 03, 2021, 09:16:36 PM
What a load of absolute shite.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on March 03, 2021, 09:16:56 PM
He is blinkered with his appraisal of certain players and use of tactical substitutions at the right time but to get rid of him? After what we have achieved since the end of last season? Utter nonsense.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on March 03, 2021, 09:21:50 PM
He has taken us to the next level, twice.  Promotion, survival, revival.  Doesn't mean he gets a free pass though.  Another opportunity in the transfer market this summer to move us up again and for us to be more consistent.   
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Uknowthescore on March 03, 2021, 09:24:03 PM
Quote from: AV82EC on March 03, 2021, 08:58:51 PM
Quote from: Uknowthescore on March 03, 2021, 08:54:15 PM
He’s took us as far as he can.  If we’ve got aspirations of being a top 6 club the owners need to get rid in the summer. To be a top 6 club you need a top manager, deano ain’t it I’m afraid

Utterly clueless comments. Smith deserves some criticism for tonights "performance" but to suggest we need to get rid, deary me.

Not clueless at all, if you think dean smith previously of Brentford and wallsall is the man to take us forward your the clueless one.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on March 03, 2021, 09:24:31 PM
He reckons the subs worked well when they came on. No Dean, they absolutely bloody didn't.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on March 03, 2021, 09:25:41 PM
Quote from: Uknowthescore on March 03, 2021, 09:24:03 PM
Quote from: AV82EC on March 03, 2021, 08:58:51 PM
Quote from: Uknowthescore on March 03, 2021, 08:54:15 PM
He’s took us as far as he can.  If we’ve got aspirations of being a top 6 club the owners need to get rid in the summer. To be a top 6 club you need a top manager, deano ain’t it I’m afraid

Utterly clueless comments. Smith deserves some criticism for tonights "performance" but to suggest we need to get rid, deary me.

Not clueless at all, if you think dean smith previously of Brentford and wallsall is the man to take us forward your the clueless one.


He's done nothing but take us forward. From bottom half Championship to promoted, to staying up with a final, to top half side.

What the fuck does it matter if he was at Walsall or Brentford? He's at Aston fucking Villa and doing an excellent job.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on March 03, 2021, 09:26:02 PM
Quote from: Uknowthescore on March 03, 2021, 09:24:03 PM
Quote from: AV82EC on March 03, 2021, 08:58:51 PM
Quote from: Uknowthescore on March 03, 2021, 08:54:15 PM
He’s took us as far as he can.  If we’ve got aspirations of being a top 6 club the owners need to get rid in the summer. To be a top 6 club you need a top manager, deano ain’t it I’m afraid

Utterly clueless comments. Smith deserves some criticism for tonights "performance" but to suggest we need to get rid, deary me.

Not clueless at all, if you think dean smith previously of Brentford and wallsall is the man to take us forward your the clueless one.


He's probably thinking of Dean Smith who got us promoted from nowhere, kept us up and then pushed us into the top half of the table.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 03, 2021, 09:27:54 PM
Quote from: Risso on March 03, 2021, 09:24:31 PM
He reckons the subs worked well when they came on. No Dean, they absolutely bloody didn't.
I have absolutely no idea what he was trying to accomplish with the subs.
The problem for me was with the wide players and had been all game.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on March 03, 2021, 09:28:06 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on March 03, 2021, 09:26:02 PM
Quote from: Uknowthescore on March 03, 2021, 09:24:03 PM
Quote from: AV82EC on March 03, 2021, 08:58:51 PM
Quote from: Uknowthescore on March 03, 2021, 08:54:15 PM
He’s took us as far as he can.  If we’ve got aspirations of being a top 6 club the owners need to get rid in the summer. To be a top 6 club you need a top manager, deano ain’t it I’m afraid

Utterly clueless comments. Smith deserves some criticism for tonights "performance" but to suggest we need to get rid, deary me.

Not clueless at all, if you think dean smith previously of Brentford and wallsall is the man to take us forward your the clueless one.


He's probably thinking of Dean Smith who got us promoted from nowhere, kept us up and then pushed us into the top half of the table.

bUt hE wAs aT wAlSalL
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Uknowthescore on March 03, 2021, 09:30:26 PM
Quote from: Ads on March 03, 2021, 09:25:41 PM
Quote from: Uknowthescore on March 03, 2021, 09:24:03 PM
Quote from: AV82EC on March 03, 2021, 08:58:51 PM
Quote from: Uknowthescore on March 03, 2021, 08:54:15 PM
He’s took us as far as he can.  If we’ve got aspirations of being a top 6 club the owners need to get rid in the summer. To be a top 6 club you need a top manager, deano ain’t it I’m afraid

I’m not saying he’s done a shit job, he’s been brilliant for us, what I’m saying is if we want to go the next level we need an elite manager, look at the top 8 now, apart from moyes all managers have won medals at the highest level, sorry but smith ain’t the man to take us forward if we have real ambitions

Utterly clueless comments. Smith deserves some criticism for tonights "performance" but to suggest we need to get rid, deary me.

Not clueless at all, if you think dean smith previously of Brentford and wallsall is the man to take us forward your the clueless one.


He's done nothing but take us forward. From bottom half Championship to promoted, to staying up with a final, to top half side.

What the fuck does it matter if he was at Walsall or Brentford? He's at Aston fucking Villa and doing an excellent job.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: not3bad on March 03, 2021, 09:32:27 PM
Quote from: Uknowthescore on March 03, 2021, 09:30:26 PM
Quote from: Ads on March 03, 2021, 09:25:41 PM
Quote from: Uknowthescore on March 03, 2021, 09:24:03 PM
Quote from: AV82EC on March 03, 2021, 08:58:51 PM
Quote from: Uknowthescore on March 03, 2021, 08:54:15 PM
He’s took us as far as he can.  If we’ve got aspirations of being a top 6 club the owners need to get rid in the summer. To be a top 6 club you need a top manager, deano ain’t it I’m afraid

I’m not saying he’s done a shit job, he’s been brilliant for us, what I’m saying is if we want to go the next level we need an elite manager, look at the top 8 now, apart from moyes all managers have won medals at the highest level, sorry but smith ain’t the man to take us forward if we have real ambitions

Utterly clueless comments. Smith deserves some criticism for tonights "performance" but to suggest we need to get rid, deary me.

Not clueless at all, if you think dean smith previously of Brentford and wallsall is the man to take us forward your the clueless one.


He's done nothing but take us forward. From bottom half Championship to promoted, to staying up with a final, to top half side.

What the fuck does it matter if he was at Walsall or Brentford? He's at Aston fucking Villa and doing an excellent job.

Can I quote you all on that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on March 03, 2021, 09:32:27 PM
Speaking of clueless...
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on March 03, 2021, 09:33:18 PM
The top 4 is occupied by 1 manager who has medals that didn't come out of a Christmas cracker.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on March 03, 2021, 09:41:21 PM
Quote from: Ads on March 03, 2021, 09:33:18 PM
The top 4 is occupied by 1 manager who has medals that didn't come out of a Christmas cracker.

That's what makes the inconsistency so annoying though. Really good chance to break into the European places this year, but every time we look like doing so, we throw in another hopeless performance. Goal scoring is also becoming a real problem.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on March 03, 2021, 09:48:55 PM
Quote from: Risso on March 03, 2021, 09:41:21 PM
Quote from: Ads on March 03, 2021, 09:33:18 PM
The top 4 is occupied by 1 manager who has medals that didn't come out of a Christmas cracker.

That's what makes the inconsistency so annoying though. Really good chance to break into the European places this year, but every time we look like doing so, we throw in another hopeless performance. Goal scoring is also becoming a real problem.

A season too early for us it seems. Inconsistent performances seem to be blighting most teams. West Ham are on a very good run but I bet it could quite easily change.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: VILLA MOLE on March 03, 2021, 09:50:13 PM
Quote from: Ads on March 03, 2021, 09:28:06 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on March 03, 2021, 09:26:02 PM
Quote from: Uknowthescore on March 03, 2021, 09:24:03 PM
Quote from: AV82EC on March 03, 2021, 08:58:51 PM
Quote from: Uknowthescore on March 03, 2021, 08:54:15 PM
He’s took us as far as he can.  If we’ve got aspirations of being a top 6 club the owners need to get rid in the summer. To be a top 6 club you need a top manager, deano ain’t it I’m afraid

Utterly clueless comments. Smith deserves some criticism for tonights "performance" but to suggest we need to get rid, deary me.

Not clueless at all, if you think dean smith previously of Brentford and wallsall is the man to take us forward your the clueless one.


He's probably thinking of Dean Smith who got us promoted from nowhere, kept us up and then pushed us into the top half of the table.

bUt hE wAs aT wAlSalL


‘You are ‘ sorry 😞
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Monty on March 03, 2021, 09:51:49 PM
It seems for some people there's no gap between a manager meriting some criticism and deserving the sack.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on March 03, 2021, 09:52:52 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on March 03, 2021, 08:53:55 PM
Another lazy team selection and then not reacting when it wasn’t working.

Nakamba is not needed against poorer sides when you will have more of the ball, he can't do anything with it. Having said that neither could McGinn. Really poor the central midfielders tonight.

We haven't scored more than 1 goal in our last 7 games. The rhythm isn't right in Midfield at the moment. Time for Sanson to be given his bow.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AV82EC on March 03, 2021, 09:53:18 PM
Quote from: Risso on March 03, 2021, 09:41:21 PM
Quote from: Ads on March 03, 2021, 09:33:18 PM
The top 4 is occupied by 1 manager who has medals that didn't come out of a Christmas cracker.

That's what makes the inconsistency so annoying though. Really good chance to break into the European places this year, but every time we look like doing so, we throw in another hopeless performance. Goal scoring is also becoming a real problem.

I think that's more down to squad strength though Risso than Smiths ability or otherwise. He got it badly wrong tonight in my view with a really naive and timid team selection against the team bottom of the table. This wasn't the night for faint hearts but its what we got. Hopefully he learns from it, which to be fair he seems to from previous fuck ups he's made. As you say though so frustrating when we are so close to doing something really good.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 03, 2021, 10:00:04 PM
We keep talking about Smith learning, I want him to learn what is wrong in the first half and change it in the second half.
Is that too much to ask?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ketzster on March 03, 2021, 10:11:02 PM
Is it one win and one draw from games when we’ve gone behind over the last two seasons? Nobody could question that the improvement has been huge, but the lack of tactical changes during games is quite a big problem. I know he put Davis on tonight but other than that it’s normally just like for like substitute meaning it never forces the opposition to change what they’re doing. If we start games ok, generally things go pretty well. But because of the lack of changes during games, if things start badly they tend to continue badly which is reflected in the fact our record is so poor when we fall behind
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rory on March 03, 2021, 10:48:47 PM
Quote from: Ads on March 03, 2021, 09:25:41 PM
Quote from: Uknowthescore on March 03, 2021, 09:24:03 PM
Quote from: AV82EC on March 03, 2021, 08:58:51 PM
Quote from: Uknowthescore on March 03, 2021, 08:54:15 PM
He’s took us as far as he can.  If we’ve got aspirations of being a top 6 club the owners need to get rid in the summer. To be a top 6 club you need a top manager, deano ain’t it I’m afraid

Utterly clueless comments. Smith deserves some criticism for tonights "performance" but to suggest we need to get rid, deary me.

Not clueless at all, if you think dean smith previously of Brentford and wallsall is the man to take us forward your the clueless one.


He's done nothing but take us forward. From bottom half Championship to promoted, to staying up with a final, to top half side.

What the fuck does it matter if he was at Walsall or Brentford? He's at Aston fucking Villa and doing an excellent job.

Well said, Ads.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on March 03, 2021, 10:59:27 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on March 03, 2021, 10:00:04 PM
We keep talking about Smith learning, I want him to learn what is wrong in the first half and change it in the second half.
Is that too much to ask?

I can be as critical about Smith as anyone but I'm struggling to understand some of the criticism here tonight.

I didn't think there was much wrong with the first half performance, poor goal conceded aside. What did you think was wrong with it? We certainly started the second half very well so I can see why he delayed the subs maybe a bit longer than they should have been. But unfortunately the likes of Sanson and Barkley didn't really make much of an impact.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on March 03, 2021, 11:24:08 PM
Quote from: Legion on March 03, 2021, 09:16:56 PM
He is blinkered with his appraisal of certain players and use of tactical substitutions at the right time but to get rid of him? After what we have achieved since the end of last season? Utter nonsense.

Yep. Utter nonsense.

However I'm a bit nonplussed by those saying they wouldn't be that unhappy finishing 12-14th given it would've been some as progress in September. Perhaps not so much on here but on other forums I've seen that line peddled out a bit.

Yes the last few weeks have been sticky but we were playing some excellent football up to January and we've been out of the top half for about two weeks all seen so would be massive disappointment just to jack off the season now we're pretty much on 40 points.

Dosen't exactly give the right sort of mentality to team who wants to finish top 6 in next 2 years. You do that by finishing 8th this season which I still think is realistic position and so then you're on the verge of breaking through if you can get 2-3 of quality we got in last summer. Grealish certainly wouldn't be happy finishing below 10th this season so we need more of that mentality going forward.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OzVilla on March 03, 2021, 11:57:07 PM
As disappointing as the SU result was I'm a big believer in you learn far more from your defeats than you do from your victories. This game encapsulated where we need improvement. This is not about the next few games it’s more to do with recruitment this Summer and where we are lacking.

We need better more consistent players in key areas and far more to change games from the bench. We have the nucleus of 6/7 players in the first XI to play in a top 4 side, the rest just don’t quite cut it. Tonight showed all this to both management and owners.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Olof's Beard on March 04, 2021, 12:23:15 AM
Quote from: OzVilla on March 03, 2021, 11:57:07 PM
As disappointing as the SU result was I'm a big believer in you learn far more from your defeats than you do from your victories. This game encapsulated where we need improvement. This is not about the next few games it’s more to do with recruitment this Summer and where we are lacking.

We need better more consistent players in key areas and far more to change games from the bench. We have the nucleus of 6/7 players in the first XI to play in a top 4 side, the rest just don’t quite cut it. Tonight showed all this to both management and owners.



I think the next stage of growth is one of the hardest. We'll have some tough, brutal decisions to make about some extremely popular players who have played a huge role in our recovery over the last half decade. I guess this process has already started with the likes of Hourihane and others have been relegated to bit part players ahead of a likely departure next season. But it'll be the likes of McGinn next if we want to kick on and that's tough.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on March 04, 2021, 12:24:34 AM
Quote from: OzVilla on March 03, 2021, 11:57:07 PM
As disappointing as the SU result was I'm a big believer in you learn far more from your defeats than you do from your victories. This game encapsulated where we need improvement. This is not about the next few games it’s more to do with recruitment this Summer and where we are lacking.

We need better more consistent players in key areas and far more to change games from the bench. We have the nucleus of 6/7 players in the first XI to play in a top 4 side, the rest just don’t quite cut it. Tonight showed all this to both management and owners.



Which is why we'll see next-level spending in the summer. In 2019 we were buying players for £10 million, last summer it was generally £20 million. Does anyone seriously think we'll start next season with Wesley still as our record signing, or even in the top three?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on March 04, 2021, 12:31:52 AM
Ollie is our record signing but there is no chance he will be come the end of August. I fully expect it to be in the £40m plus range.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sid1964 on March 04, 2021, 07:12:18 AM
The owners have not chucked £400 million + into our club to finish mid table or below

Dean will need a strong finish to the season or next season he will be under a lot of pressure to keep his job if we make a poor start
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: simboy on March 04, 2021, 07:22:06 AM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on March 04, 2021, 12:31:52 AM
Ollie is our record signing but there is no chance he will be come the end of August. I fully expect it to be in the £40m plus range.


As evidenced by thinking whether Barkley is worth £35 million or not? Yes that’s my view. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on March 04, 2021, 07:50:20 AM
Next level spending and improvements from where we were two years ago are all good things to hear
But the elephant in the room is Jack Grealish

He is the reason we are where we are not Smith
We would never have got promotion without Grealish we would have gone down last season without Grealish and we are 9th in the league this season because of Grealish

for me we win last night with Grealish that’s the difference
Yes I know we will lose some games with him in and win some games without him but the stats will back me up on this

I know every team has players that are more important to them than others but Grealish is bigger than all our players and management put together
Do you want to see what we are like without him
Well Sheffield United with 10 men will give you a good idea

No ideas on the pitch no ideas off the pitch
If Grealish plays we win we come off thinking everyone is great
He has an average game against West Ham and Brighton and we lose one and fail to score In the other

Keeping Grealish is the key to everything going forward not Smith

There is no other team in the Premier League more reliant on one man than we are
People who have watched Villa for all their lives say he is the best they’ve ever seen or certainly one of them

It would be a tragedy if he doesn’t play his football at the highest level
I want that level to be with Villa
And that’s why we need European football this year

All this happy with mid-table because of how far we’ve come will mean nothing If Grealish moves on
We will be back to square one

Jack Grealish is the reason why we are where we are
Everyone else has helped including Smith who’s done a good job so far


But everyone the team and management are exposed when Grealish doesn’t play
we see how good we really are and where were you really are





Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on March 04, 2021, 08:06:20 AM
By season's end Dean will have achieved/exceeded this season's targets set by the owners and he certainly will get my support and congratulations. New players will be brought in during the off season and new targets will be set for Dean and his staff, which will require us stepping up another level and which I hope Dean will also achieve, but I'm under no illusions that if he doesn't the owners will act. Managers come and go just like players; it's a statement of the obvious. The owners have already shown that they mean business where Villa is concerned and I trust them to make the right decisions at the right time. As for those posters planting the seed of doubt re Dean after what he's achieved in such a short space of time tut tut tut!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on March 04, 2021, 08:07:08 AM
Grealish was the reason we beat Leeds. Why we have one the best records in Europe for clean sheets. Why we have a great defensive record in this league.

He's a brilliant player, the best in the league. Any side would want him, we need to keep him and I think we will, but I'm not going to buy the MolMix/SHA analysis of us.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: simboy on March 04, 2021, 08:14:46 AM
Quote from: Ads on March 04, 2021, 08:07:08 AM
Grealish was the reason we beat Leeds. Why we have one the best records in Europe for clean sheets. Why we have a great defensive record in this league.

He's a brilliant player, the best in the league. Any side would want him, we need to keep him and I think we will, but I'm not going to buy the MolMix/SHA analysis of us.


This
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on March 04, 2021, 08:22:03 AM
I'm obviously going to get lynched for this but if i were Jack I'd go this summer. He needs to win things, he's simply too good to miss out on success at the highest level. He's done more than enough for Villa.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on March 04, 2021, 08:43:51 AM
It's a matter for him and the club. He mentioned finishing midtable earlier in the season, so we are above what the club sold him. He's already been to two finals with this club and the chances of that will only increase as we progress.

We are probably around where we will finish as we are struggling for consistency, unless we put together 3 or 4 wins. A huge and dramatic turnaround nonetheless from being mid-table I the Championship 2 years ago and on our way down 12 months ago.

Fortunately we have just about the most serious owners you can get. At the minute we have a limited pool of quality and/or consistency in several areas; Watkins, Wesley and Davis with Traore, El Ghazi and Trezeguet. I agree with Dave, there will be high quality players coming in to push the players at the bottom out and give increased quality options.

I think Jack will stay, with or without a new contract and want want be apart of having more players at his level.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on March 04, 2021, 08:52:31 AM
If Grealish were to go this Summer then we'd likely have £200m to improve the team. Put all that into 4 midfielders/wide forwards and we'd have a serious team. It wouldn't be the end of the world Grealish going. Fingers crossed he won't.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on March 04, 2021, 09:01:41 AM
Oh dear mr.u!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on March 04, 2021, 09:09:01 AM
Quote from: john e on March 04, 2021, 07:50:20 AM
Next level spending and improvements from where we were two years ago are all good things to hear
But the elephant in the room is Jack Grealish

He is the reason we are where we are not Smith
We would never have got promotion without Grealish we would have gone down last season without Grealish and we are 9th in the league this season because of Grealish


I agree John.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 04, 2021, 09:10:14 AM
Quote from: aj2k77 on March 04, 2021, 08:52:31 AM
If Grealish were to go this Summer then we'd likely have £200m to improve the team. Put all that into 4 midfielders/wide forwards and we'd have a serious team. It wouldn't be the end of the world Grealish going. Fingers crossed he won't.
Unfortunately the Selling your best player to improve the team rarely works.
The problem is once Jack goes why would an ambitions player want to join us? or you just get the ones that come because we pay more than the going rate.
Performances like last night make it more likely that he will go.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on March 04, 2021, 09:12:24 AM
You don't think 4 £40m players replacing Ramsey, Nakamba, El Ghazi and McGinn would improve last nights team?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on March 04, 2021, 09:12:26 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on March 04, 2021, 09:10:14 AM
Quote from: aj2k77 on March 04, 2021, 08:52:31 AM
If Grealish were to go this Summer then we'd likely have £200m to improve the team. Put all that into 4 midfielders/wide forwards and we'd have a serious team. It wouldn't be the end of the world Grealish going. Fingers crossed he won't.
Unfortunately the Selling your best player to improve the team rarely works.
The problem is once Jack goes why would an ambitions player want to join us? or you just get the ones that come because we pay more than the going rate.
Performances like last night make it more likely that he will go.

They might be the exception, but Leicester have proved it's possible.

I do think he'll probably go at the end of the season though.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: DB on March 04, 2021, 09:13:45 AM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on March 03, 2021, 08:40:35 PM
Hate watching us play 10 men, we are simply never very convincing at all and drop far too many points.

If we want to become a top level team again we simply can't do that and need to develop ruthless edge in this situation as other teams do when we lose a man.

We just don't have a clue how to play against a team who sit back. SU were always going to that once they scored and even more so once they went down to 10 men, game over.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 04, 2021, 09:16:40 AM
Quote from: aj2k77 on March 04, 2021, 09:12:24 AM
You don't think 4 £40m players replacing Ramsey, Nakamba, El Ghazi and McGinn would improve last nights team?
Yes last nights team, but the big question is would we be more likely to break into the top 4 with or without Jack?
With Jack we have a chance and that in itself is more likely to encourage talent to join us.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on March 04, 2021, 09:20:59 AM
I can't see him going. I don't think post COVID anybody that needs him could afford him, that includes Man United. The emergence of Foden at Man City has definitely benefited us.

Top half finish, £120,000 a week, going deep in the Euros and a couple of £40m players coming in to aid us, I think he would feel pretty proud and pleased with his lot.

Then we win the FA Cup. No fooling this time.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 04, 2021, 09:24:38 AM
Quote from: Risso on March 04, 2021, 09:12:26 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on March 04, 2021, 09:10:14 AM
Quote from: aj2k77 on March 04, 2021, 08:52:31 AM
If Grealish were to go this Summer then we'd likely have £200m to improve the team. Put all that into 4 midfielders/wide forwards and we'd have a serious team. It wouldn't be the end of the world Grealish going. Fingers crossed he won't.
Unfortunately the Selling your best player to improve the team rarely works.
The problem is once Jack goes why would an ambitions player want to join us? or you just get the ones that come because we pay more than the going rate.
Performances like last night make it more likely that he will go.

They might be the exception, but Leicester have proved it's possible.

I do think he'll probably go at the end of the season though.
Leicester recruitment and extracting player value is remarkable.
lets face it every club would love to emulate that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on March 04, 2021, 09:24:51 AM
Quote from: DB on March 04, 2021, 09:13:45 AM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on March 03, 2021, 08:40:35 PM
Hate watching us play 10 men, we are simply never very convincing at all and drop far too many points.

If we want to become a top level team again we simply can't do that and need to develop ruthless edge in this situation as other teams do when we lose a man.

We just don't have a clue how to play against a team who sit back.

Its a strange one because we always struggle against 10 that sit back but then our record against Newcastle is decent and Smiths record agsinst Bruce is good.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Jon Crofts on March 04, 2021, 09:28:24 AM
This 10 man struggle started against West Ham at Villa Park last season if I remember rightly?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on March 04, 2021, 09:46:25 AM
Yeah it did, I think we've only beaten one team when they're down to 10 men since that West Ham game, Sheff Utd at home.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Duncan Shaw on March 04, 2021, 09:59:07 AM
Quote from: LukeJames on March 04, 2021, 09:46:25 AM
Yeah it did, I think we've only beaten one team when they're down to 10 men since that West Ham game, Sheff Utd at home.
And West Brom
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on March 04, 2021, 10:01:27 AM
And Brighton.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Duncan Shaw on March 04, 2021, 10:22:57 AM
I nearly said and Crystal Palace as well - but that was us!!!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on March 04, 2021, 10:23:54 AM
That was our last excellent performance. We've done elements of the game well in patches since and totally dominated a few sides without being convincing.

But what a performance Palace was.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sid1964 on March 04, 2021, 11:18:23 AM
I am just hoping that now we are safe that the players aren’t thinking about their summer holidays
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Bobby Boy on March 04, 2021, 12:03:20 PM
We've definitely come a long way this season but my fear is that we could see this as a huge opportunity missed which results last night certainly don't help.

There is no guarantee that the upward trajectory will continue and some of our players will be attracting interest this summer.

Will they stay? Who knows but making a statement by getting into Europe would definitely do no harm in making them want to stay.

We seem to be on the verge of a major step this season and then blow it. It is encouraging of course but still frustrating.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on March 04, 2021, 12:04:57 PM
FFP constraints are loosened now aren't they for us? I recall Ourslow saying we couldn't welly the wallet around as we like as we were constrained by year previously.

I seriously don't think there's anybody outside of Man City that has the financial muscle we do and the willingness to flex it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tomd2103 on March 04, 2021, 12:37:40 PM
Quote from: Bobby Boy on March 04, 2021, 12:03:20 PM
We've definitely come a long way this season but my fear is that we could see this as a huge opportunity missed which results last night certainly don't help.

There is no guarantee that the upward trajectory will continue and some of our players will be attracting interest this summer.

Will they stay? Who knows but making a statement by getting into Europe would definitely do no harm in making them want to stay.

We seem to be on the verge of a major step this season and then blow it. It is encouraging of course but still frustrating.

Kind of where I am with it really.  This season has definitely exceeded my expectations, but just feel that there is a great opportunity this season that we look like we are not going to take advantage of. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on March 04, 2021, 12:41:21 PM
Every club down to fourteenth in the table probably feels the same but none of the others went into the season hoping they'd be safe before the final day.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OCD on March 04, 2021, 12:42:08 PM
We haven't looked the same to me since the Covid outbreak. Only in the first half against Burnley have we looked excellent.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: nick harper on March 04, 2021, 01:16:39 PM
Quote from: OCD on March 04, 2021, 12:42:08 PM
We haven't looked the same to me since the Covid outbreak. Only in the first half against Burnley have we looked excellent.

Burnley were way off the pace and left loads of space in that first half. That game should have been  over after 45 mins. Teams are getting better at nullifying us I think.

Smith needs to help the team evolve again - shape, personnel, flexibility. We are starting to find it harder to to be as creative and dynamic as we were before Xmas and this was happening before Grealish got injured.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on March 04, 2021, 01:21:56 PM
Quote from: nick harper on March 04, 2021, 01:16:39 PM
Quote from: OCD on March 04, 2021, 12:42:08 PM
We haven't looked the same to me since the Covid outbreak. Only in the first half against Burnley have we looked excellent.
Burnley were way off the pace and left loads of space in that first half. That game should have been  over after 45 mins. Teams are getting better at nullifying us I think.
Smith needs to help the team evolve again - shape, personnel, flexibility. We are starting to find it harder to to be as creative and dynamic as we were before Xmas and this was happening before Grealish got injured.
When a team plays 2 obviously-wide players (Traore and AEG), it is easy to defend and less flexible during the game. Take Liverpool: they have 2 obviously-wide players in Mane and Salah, but these 2 have licence to play wherever the game demands it. All this means that they can play between the lines of defence and midfield and provide overloads where an advantage can be gained.
We've become predictable and lack the players to create a more flexible approach to games. I'm hoping that over time Sanson, Barry, Philigene-Bidace and others can provide greater flexibility in our play.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 04, 2021, 01:55:49 PM
With both wingers staying on the wrong side, every time the defenders are happy to funnel them towards more defenders.
They should swap sides to give the defense something else to think about.
It also means when they cross the odds massively  favour the defenders.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OCD on March 04, 2021, 04:38:47 PM
The wide players, along with Watkins, have been swapping positions. This was particularly noticeable against Leeds when there were times where Traore was the main striker and times when El Ghazi was the main striker, along with swapping sides.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on March 04, 2021, 05:30:01 PM
Quote from: OCD on March 04, 2021, 04:38:47 PM
The wide players, along with Watkins, have been swapping positions. This was particularly noticeable against Leeds when there were times where Traore was the main striker and times when El Ghazi was the main striker, along with swapping sides.
True, but last night it was back to a very predictable approach.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT on March 04, 2021, 06:01:37 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on March 04, 2021, 12:31:52 AM
Ollie is our record signing but there is no chance he will be come the end of August. I fully expect it to be in the £40m plus range.

Let’s hope we spend our £40m’s more wisely than Newcastle (Joelinton).
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on March 04, 2021, 06:03:53 PM
Or Wesley.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on March 05, 2021, 09:09:13 AM
Watkins looks a steal at what we paid for him.

We are a typical team in development, win some, lose some look fantastic then awful. Imagine when the players all develop a bit more, we're heading the right way.

I bet Smith must feel like pulling his hair out sometimes.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on March 05, 2021, 09:14:27 AM
Quote from: Drummond on March 05, 2021, 09:09:13 AM
Watkins looks a steal at what we paid for him.

We are a typical team in development, win some, lose some look fantastic then awful. Imagine when the players all develop a bit more, we're heading the right way.

I bet Smith must feel like pulling his hair out sometimes.

A lot of it is down to him. He's massively improved the player acquisition and the defence, now he needs to work on using the squad effectively plus game management and subs. Our record after falling behind in games is pathetic, you might as well blow the final whistle when we concede first.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: West Derby Villan on March 05, 2021, 09:23:46 AM
Quote from: Drummond on March 05, 2021, 09:09:13 AM
Watkins looks a steal at what we paid for him.

We are a typical team in development, win some, lose some look fantastic then awful. Imagine when the players all develop a bit more, we're heading the right way.

I bet Smith must feel like pulling his hair out sometimes.

Totally agree mate
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Luke8 on March 05, 2021, 09:52:05 AM
Quote from: Risso on March 05, 2021, 09:14:27 AM
Quote from: Drummond on March 05, 2021, 09:09:13 AM
Watkins looks a steal at what we paid for him.

We are a typical team in development, win some, lose some look fantastic then awful. Imagine when the players all develop a bit more, we're heading the right way.

I bet Smith must feel like pulling his hair out sometimes.

A lot of it is down to him. He's massively improved the player acquisition and the defence, now he needs to work on using the squad effectively plus game management and subs. Our record after falling behind in games is pathetic, you might as well blow the final whistle when we concede first.

Our record is not good, and I’m not disputing it’s an area for improvement, but we have been behind in games less than anyone except Man City, Chelsea and Tottenham. Plus, it is quite a hard thing to do - more than half the teams in the league have either never won or only won once from a losing position.

Also, while our recent performances have been a bit limp once we have conceded but I’d argue we were pretty unfortunate to get nothing from the West Ham (home), Brighton and Man United games that we went behind in.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on March 05, 2021, 12:37:17 PM
That Covid break has definitely affected us more than normal. 

If you’re going to be really harsh next season you’re going to be looking for an upgrade on McGinn.  You’re going to need to sign someone like Tammy.  Possibly getting rid of Trez and moving Watkins to the wing.  And then another decent attacking midfielder unless Sanson Amour is the one.  Plus a decent cover for Targett at left back assuming Guilbert comes back as cover for Cash.  if not we need Tango.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on March 05, 2021, 01:05:57 PM
Quote from: Olof's Beard on March 04, 2021, 12:23:15 AM
Quote from: OzVilla on March 03, 2021, 11:57:07 PM
As disappointing as the SU result was I'm a big believer in you learn far more from your defeats than you do from your victories. This game encapsulated where we need improvement. This is not about the next few games it’s more to do with recruitment this Summer and where we are lacking.

We need better more consistent players in key areas and far more to change games from the bench. We have the nucleus of 6/7 players in the first XI to play in a top 4 side, the rest just don’t quite cut it. Tonight showed all this to both management and owners.



I think the next stage of growth is one of the hardest. We'll have some tough, brutal decisions to make about some extremely popular players who have played a huge role in our recovery over the last half decade. I guess this process has already started with the likes of Hourihane and others have been relegated to bit part players ahead of a likely departure next season. But it'll be the likes of McGinn next if we want to kick on and that's tough.

Don't think SJM is in danger of losing his place anytime soon.

With regards the summer I think we'll be looking at AEM and Taylor out of contract, Engels and Gullibert moving on, Hourihane going to Swansea or somewhere else for 5-6m and Davis going.

I actually think we'll sell one of Trez/AEG aswell unless we make europa. Both will have two years left on their deal and given the good season we've had and they've played their parts in that so their value will be as high if not higher than what we paid for them.

Nakamba probably also comes into that category. Played well recently but two years left and we're well stocked in midfield area currently.

20-25m coming in from sales is important for FFP and we just don't rely on owners pumping in 60-70m every summer as in the Lerner era when we could barely sell a squad player for anything. Eventually that sort of strategy has its limits.

Not sure we'll hit 40m signing range just yet but will be more in the 20-30m bracket. Would look at getting a really good right sided wide player in, another striker to give us something better off the bench for games like Wednesday and another RB. Will also need more back up at CB and LB aswell.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: garyellis on March 05, 2021, 01:08:04 PM
We need someone who can be a real game changer as well as Jack. We did enough to win the other night and that team was good enough to have got a result against Sheffield United but not against a top 6 side.
The summer ins and outs are going to be really interesting because to improve on this season will be a big ask when you take account of expectations.
I do not think there is any chance of Dean moving Ollie from his current role and why would he? His first season in the Premier League has been a success and Watkins wants to play in the centre forward position not on the wing. I am all for flexibility and fluidity during the game but Watkins is and will remain our number 9 regardless of what number is on his shirt!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OCD on March 05, 2021, 02:30:52 PM
David Brooks was linked in the last window. That wouldn't surprise me. Ticks a number of boxes that other players have and is similar in style to Jack but mainly plays on the right, cutting in.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Flamingo Lane on March 05, 2021, 02:43:59 PM
Quote from: OCD on March 05, 2021, 02:30:52 PM
David Brooks was linked in the last window. That wouldn't surprise me. Ticks a number of boxes that other players have and is similar in style to Jack but mainly plays on the right, cutting in.

Hasn't he been struggling to make it into Bournemouth's starting XI?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on March 05, 2021, 02:44:39 PM
Quote from: Flamingo Lane on March 05, 2021, 02:43:59 PM
Quote from: OCD on March 05, 2021, 02:30:52 PM
David Brooks was linked in the last window. That wouldn't surprise me. Ticks a number of boxes that other players have and is similar in style to Jack but mainly plays on the right, cutting in.

Hasn't he been struggling to make it into Bournemouth's starting XI?

So was Tyrone.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 05, 2021, 02:53:18 PM
Quote from: Mister E on March 04, 2021, 05:30:01 PM
Quote from: OCD on March 04, 2021, 04:38:47 PM
The wide players, along with Watkins, have been swapping positions. This was particularly noticeable against Leeds when there were times where Traore was the main striker and times when El Ghazi was the main striker, along with swapping sides.
True, but last night it was back to a very predictable approach.
exactly
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on March 05, 2021, 02:54:18 PM
Brookes is a no from me, he might make it but there too much uncertainty. I want our next signing to be a real statement, I put a few names on another thread and they're all the level we should be aiming for, the sort of players that you wouldn't be surprised if Chelsea/Liverpool/Man City/etc were looking at. It'll be hard to get someone like that but it's the right way to go about keeping Jack and taking another big step forward next year.

My aim would be 2 big £35-40m signings in attacking midfield/up front and then a couple of Sanson level signings in the more defensive spots. The latter would be youngsters to develop behind what is currently a strong first choice defence/DM whilst the first 2 would be to com straight into the mix for starting places to replace Barkley and compete with Watkins, Traore and Jack as a replacement for 1 of Trez or AEG. I like both of them but neither is top6 standard.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on March 05, 2021, 03:04:21 PM
Quote from: paul_e on March 05, 2021, 02:54:18 PM
Brookes is a no from me, he might make it but there too much uncertainty. I want our next signing to be a real statement, I put a few names on another thread and they're all the level we should be aiming for, the sort of players that you wouldn't be surprised if Chelsea/Liverpool/Man City/etc were looking at. It'll be hard to get someone like that but it's the right way to go about keeping Jack and taking another big step forward next year.

My aim would be 2 big £35-40m signings in attacking midfield/up front and then a couple of Sanson level signings in the more defensive spots. The latter would be youngsters to develop behind what is currently a strong first choice defence/DM whilst the first 2 would be to com straight into the mix for starting places to replace Barkley and compete with Watkins, Traore and Jack as a replacement for 1 of Trez or AEG. I like both of them but neither is top6 standard.

I imagine they may look at Brookes if Bournemouth are in a bit of financial bother if not promoted, we seem to have a keen eye for that kind of thing at present, and would allow us to offload one of Trez/Anwar and bring in the kind of signing you want alongside him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on March 05, 2021, 03:14:21 PM
Berge from Sheff Utd is one we're considering I think. We'll have far too many midfielders soon, instead of Right Backs we'll have Central Midfielders everywhere.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on March 05, 2021, 03:22:16 PM
Quote from: Drummond on March 05, 2021, 03:14:21 PM
Berge from Sheff Utd is one we're considering I think. We'll have far too many midfielders soon, instead of Right Backs we'll have Central Midfielders everywhere.

He'd be replacing Doug you'd think, should Citeh take him back.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on March 05, 2021, 03:28:49 PM
I don't think we will sign Barkley and I imagine Hourihane will move on permanently. Nakamba is good but in my opinion of the quality to be at a club aspiring to be top 6. We will need better and Berge would improve our depth.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on March 05, 2021, 03:31:42 PM
I have a horrible feeling that Konsa will be the the subject of a large bid from one of the big lads, and will obviously want to go.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on March 05, 2021, 03:35:18 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on March 05, 2021, 03:31:42 PM
I have a horrible feeling that Konsa will be the the subject of a large bid from one of the big lads, and will obviously want to go.

We are one of the big clubs in terms of resources and ability to keep our players. I don't get where you feel he will want to go after less than one full season as a starter.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on March 05, 2021, 03:44:55 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on March 05, 2021, 03:35:18 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on March 05, 2021, 03:31:42 PM
I have a horrible feeling that Konsa will be the the subject of a large bid from one of the big lads, and will obviously want to go.

We are one of the big clubs in terms of resources and ability to keep our players. I don't get where you feel he will want to go after less than one full season as a starter.

Players find it difficult to turn down Liverpool or Man United.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Allan C on March 05, 2021, 04:00:17 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on March 05, 2021, 03:31:42 PM
I have a horrible feeling that Konsa will be the the subject of a large bid from one of the big lads, and will obviously want to go.
Why obviously???
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on March 05, 2021, 04:04:05 PM
Quote from: Allan C on March 05, 2021, 04:00:17 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on March 05, 2021, 03:31:42 PM
I have a horrible feeling that Konsa will be the the subject of a large bid from one of the big lads, and will obviously want to go.
Why obviously???

The chance to go from a mid-table side to one that has a realistic chance of being European champions. I'm not being down on us, but I'm guessing he didn't grow up as a Villa fan and has a dispassionate view of his future prospects.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on March 05, 2021, 04:10:14 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on March 05, 2021, 04:04:05 PM
Quote from: Allan C on March 05, 2021, 04:00:17 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on March 05, 2021, 03:31:42 PM
I have a horrible feeling that Konsa will be the the subject of a large bid from one of the big lads, and will obviously want to go.
Why obviously???

The chance to go from a mid-table side to one that has a realistic chance of being European champions. I'm not being down on us, but I'm guessing he didn't grow up as a Villa fan and has a dispassionate view of his future prospects.

He's not going to Man City, so no problem there.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on March 05, 2021, 04:21:26 PM
We seem to do a good job of trying to sell our own better players and I just don't get it.
When the media (tv, newspapers) are so stacked against us holding onto ours stars, we then also add to this speculation by saying such and such a player will have their heads turned by one of the sky 6.
As a club we are going places. It won't happen overnight and if our stars believe in the project they won't want to go anywhere.
I just think we need to be focussing on the next Rashford, Foden, Salah coming here and let desperate story writers come up with their own versions of what's happening at VP without adding to their diatribe.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on March 05, 2021, 04:24:26 PM
Quote from: Abbeyfealeavfc on March 05, 2021, 04:21:26 PM
We seem to do a good job of trying to sell our own better players and I just don't get it.
When the media (tv, newspapers) are so stacked against us holding onto ours stars, we then also add to this speculation by saying such and such a player will have their heads turned by one of the sky 6.
As a club we are going places. It won't happen overnight and if our stars believe in the project they won't want to go anywhere.
I just think we need to be focussing on the next Rashford, Foden, Salah coming here and let desperate story writers come up with their own versions of what's happening at VP without adding to their diatribe.

I can confirm that I don't have the ear of Ezri Konsa.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on March 05, 2021, 04:34:12 PM
One of the advantages of buying players with the right age profile is that we've now got a squad where most of them have room to improve. If w can continue to invest our players in the idea that we're growing together I think we can keep hold of everyone we want to for another season at least, so long as we get some form back and keep in the race for Europe this season, even if we do fall short. Next season would then be about securing top 6 and moving on from there.

We can get that loyalty because someone like Konsa will still be a couple of years short of his 'prime' in the summer of 2022 so giving us that extra season won't stop him from achieving everything he wants to.

The alternative is to take the jump earlier and risk being a bit part player for a few years and seeing yourself go backwards, Barkley should be a perfect warning for everyone in the squad.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on March 05, 2021, 05:02:15 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on March 05, 2021, 04:24:26 PM
Quote from: Abbeyfealeavfc on March 05, 2021, 04:21:26 PM
We seem to do a good job of trying to sell our own better players and I just don't get it.
When the media (tv, newspapers) are so stacked against us holding onto ours stars, we then also add to this speculation by saying such and such a player will have their heads turned by one of the sky 6.
As a club we are going places. It won't happen overnight and if our stars believe in the project they won't want to go anywhere.
I just think we need to be focussing on the next Rashford, Foden, Salah coming here and let desperate story writers come up with their own versions of what's happening at VP without adding to their diatribe.

I can confirm that I don't have the ear of Ezri Konsa.

Phew that's a relief. I'd hate for him to be without it.
Seriously though holding onto our better players is all I want us to do as a club. Time will tell.
Have a good w/e!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Allan C on March 05, 2021, 05:23:46 PM
Quote from: Abbeyfealeavfc on March 05, 2021, 04:21:26 PM
We seem to do a good job of trying to sell our own better players and I just don't get it.
When the media (tv, newspapers) are so stacked against us holding onto ours stars, we then also add to this speculation by saying such and such a player will have their heads turned by one of the sky 6.
As a club we are going places. It won't happen overnight and if our stars believe in the project they won't want to go anywhere.
I just think we need to be focussing on the next Rashford, Foden, Salah coming here and let desperate story writers come up with their own versions of what's happening at VP without adding to their diatribe.
Exactly this. If the owners and manager have sold a future to Grealish then there’s no reason to doubt that they won’t do that with Konsa and Mings. I don’t think we’ll finish mid table either, I’m thinking 8th or better
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on March 05, 2021, 07:34:04 PM
Letting your best players leave nearly always leads to failure.
Danny Blanchflower going off to double winning Spurs.
Tony Hateley sold to Liverpool for £100k and we then got relegated.
Yorke going to Manyoo. Probably the most pivotal transfer moment for us in the premier league era.
Barry, Milner, Young leaving to get silverware elsewhere.
The only exception was Platt leaving to Italy for a massive profit on what we had paid Crewe. Luckily Big Ron arrived and invested the proceeds in Dalian Atkinson, Steve Staunton, Kevin Richardson,  Shaun Teale, and Garry Parker which still left change for a few cases of champagne.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on March 05, 2021, 07:41:18 PM
Agree Andy 100%. To make matters worse some of our very best players were jettisoned for discipinary rather than football reasons.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on March 05, 2021, 10:04:30 PM
We need a really good wide player. Don't think we'll get an already there one so will be someone early 20s with potential to improve.

First choice would be Lookman if Fulham go down. I'd also look at Dan James from Man. United if they finally sign Sancho, incredibly fast and chips in with goals, needs to improve his composure but potential there.

Sell Trez for 10m.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 06, 2021, 10:47:42 AM
I'd be looking to spend £50 million on some dead amazing winger. No "oh he looked alright for Bournemouth" bollocks. Someone who is going to be as good as Messi, please. Not too much to ask.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OCD on March 06, 2021, 12:31:26 PM
When concerns start to arise about our best players leaving, it's worth re-visiting who our owners are. Any Basketball fans out there will be better versed than me but I gather Edens' team has a star player who Edens has done everything within his powers to keep and as a result, they've challenged for championships.

Sawiris is worth a fortune. From what Ads said recently, he's just sold a stake in a private jet company where one of the other owners was Bill Gates. Whatever Sawiris said to Jack last summer it was enough to take him from a position of not opening contract negotiations to having signed a new deal within 24 hours. That's not something you hear happening often at elite level.

I think our past experiences as fans are still influencing our expectations of what will happen. Maybe at some point our resolve will be really tested but these days its not easy to pull a player away from many Premier League sides. Prices are just too high. When Leicester are able to refuse to sell a centre back for anything less than £80m, you realise things have changed a bit. The TV money means nobody has to take big money when its offered.

As far as spending £50m on one player, we're obviously playing ball with FFP. We're looking to be a well run club that's capable of self-sustaining itself. A lot of work has gone into the recruitment department and by looking at certain age brackets, we're probably looking at identifying players that we can buy for less but who can go on to become £50m (or higher) players. We're still short of a few players too so I suspect one big signing like that would be more likely once the squad is more or less there in terms of being candidates for Champions League qualification and we don't need to spread our investment across several players.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy65 on March 06, 2021, 03:07:55 PM
Just noticed of the last 21 games we have won 8, drawn 3 and lost 10. That’s poor
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: N'ZMAV on March 06, 2021, 03:10:40 PM
Quote from: Rudy65 on March 06, 2021, 03:07:55 PM
Just noticed of the last 21 games we have won 8, drawn 3 and lost 10. That’s poor
almost mid-table form.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: N'ZMAV on March 06, 2021, 03:11:09 PM
Quote from: Rudy65 on March 06, 2021, 03:07:55 PM
Just noticed of the last 21 games we have won 8, drawn 3 and lost 10. That’s poor
where did you expect/predict we would finish at the end of the season?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on March 06, 2021, 03:24:53 PM
49 points, good enough for 8th in two of the last five seasons, no worse than 12th in the other three.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Dave P on March 06, 2021, 03:25:48 PM
Quote from: Rudy65 on March 06, 2021, 03:07:55 PM
Just noticed of the last 21 games we have won 8, drawn 3 and lost 10. That’s poor

Average of about 49 points over a season. I’d have took that all day long this season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on March 06, 2021, 03:31:11 PM
We’ve been scouted so we don’t have the surprise factor that we had early on. Teams know what we like to do and we don’t have enough really good players to elevate ourselves consistently back to that level. That’s the challenge as we go forward as a club. Continue to invest in the types of players that make us a solid top 8 side initially and then top 6. We will have moments where we look great, especially when Jack plays and moments where we drop below the heights of earlier in the campaign. It’s just where we are.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SheffieldVillain on March 06, 2021, 03:37:12 PM
Quote from: Rudy65 on March 06, 2021, 03:07:55 PM
Just noticed of the last 21 games we have won 8, drawn 3 and lost 10. That’s poor

Depends to which standards you're comparing it.

Last season we won 9 games out of all 38 we played. Now that was poor.

If you're comparing it to the form of the first 4 games of the season, then I suppose it is.

It's somewhere in the middle really - a big improvement but with room still to improve further. If we can get someone in midfield /a wide position who gives us the same degree of improvement in our attacking play as Martinez/Cash have had on the defence it really will be happy days. Looking forward to it - it's been one hell of a ride so far!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on March 06, 2021, 04:10:04 PM
I predicted 8-11 and had a target of 50 points and 50-60 goals in mind as proof we were progressing, I think we'll make all of those but will be on the lower end in the goals for column because we haven't taken out chances as well as I'd have liked.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on March 06, 2021, 04:38:20 PM
Quote from: OCD on March 06, 2021, 12:31:26 PM
When concerns start to arise about our best players leaving ... in terms of being candidates for Champions League qualification and we don't need to spread our investment across several players.
I think we have already started the process of being smart about recruitment. When you look at the options we have for central midfield, for example, there's Luiz, McGinn, Sanson, Ramsey, Chukwuemeka and - perhaps - JG as well (question about whether the latter is MF or left-side). None of these are slouches although obviously a couple are young and inexperienced. And, we may add Barkley or an equivalent there as well. And, Nakamba is not out of it either.
We've spent some dosh upfront with Traore and Watkins but also have Barry to come in and maybe also Archer. Another sizeable spend to bring in another class striker would be good.
At the back, we will have to bring in reinforcements, both because of departures (Taylor, Elmo and probably Engels) and because we surely will not go through another season without a significant defender injury.
For a work-in-progress, we're doing pretty well; with plenty to build on.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: algy on March 06, 2021, 04:51:30 PM
Quote from: OCD on March 06, 2021, 12:31:26 PM
When concerns start to arise about our best players leaving, it's worth re-visiting who our owners are. Any Basketball fans out there will be better versed than me but I gather Edens' team has a star player who Edens has done everything within his powers to keep and as a result, they've challenged for championships.

Sawiris is worth a fortune. From what Ads said recently, he's just sold a stake in a private jet company where one of the other owners was Bill Gates. Whatever Sawiris said to Jack last summer it was enough to take him from a position of not opening contract negotiations to having signed a new deal within 24 hours. That's not something you hear happening often at elite level.

I think our past experiences as fans are still influencing our expectations of what will happen. Maybe at some point our resolve will be really tested but these days its not easy to pull a player away from many Premier League sides. Prices are just too high. When Leicester are able to refuse to sell a centre back for anything less than £80m, you realise things have changed a bit. The TV money means nobody has to take big money when its offered.

As far as spending £50m on one player, we're obviously playing ball with FFP. We're looking to be a well run club that's capable of self-sustaining itself. A lot of work has gone into the recruitment department and by looking at certain age brackets, we're probably looking at identifying players that we can buy for less but who can go on to become £50m (or higher) players. We're still short of a few players too so I suspect one big signing like that would be more likely once the squad is more or less there in terms of being candidates for Champions League qualification and we don't need to spread our investment across several players.
I agree with this. I don't think we're likely to buy many £50m players tbh. It feels more our style at the moment to pluck out players in the £10m-£30m bracket and develop them in to £50m+ players.

I think - sort of hope - that this summer will finally be one where we've cleared out the last of the deadwood, and can start looking at upgrading already-decent players. Marv's the obvious example for me. I don't think he looks out of place at this level at all, but he's maybe not quite well-rounded enough to be a top 6 kind of player, where you'd expect a little bit more than 'just' doing one thing really well. Can see him being shifted on to a newly promoted side in favour of someone like Sander Berge.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on March 06, 2021, 07:56:26 PM
Just going back to the conversation over last few days.

Watching tonight and can't help thinking a Neto type on our right is the next piece of the jigsaw. Despite the odd mishit cross he was a constant outlet for them. Targett was back to his good standard but was still a tricky neat.

We love Trez for his effort but general football quality isn't there and Traore to me is better inside so there's a void there so interesting who we target.

Second half was poor but at least when we moved Ollie out wide we got up the pitch a little bit more and won a couple of late corners of which we nearly scored from one.

I'd like DS to shift from his mindset a little that CF must always play centrally for every single minute of every game next season as Watkins out wide could be a nice little plan B option for some of the tougher home and away games next season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on March 06, 2021, 08:38:32 PM
play Bert centrally and OW wide.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 06, 2021, 09:00:33 PM
I'm with Dean about creating big chances and working hard which he said in his comments after Wolves.
We've actually been unlucky v Wolves and Sheff Utd to not have scored any goals.

We'll give some team a good thrashing before not too long.
Once they all goals go in.

In Dean we trust!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on March 06, 2021, 09:05:28 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on March 06, 2021, 07:56:26 PM
Just going back to the conversation over last few days.

Watching tonight and can't help thinking a Neto type on our right is the next piece of the jigsaw. Despite the odd mishit cross he was a constant outlet for them. Targett was back to his good standard but was still a tricky neat.

We love Trez for his effort but general football quality isn't there and Traore to me is better inside so there's a void there so interesting who we target.

Second half was poor but at least when we moved Ollie out wide we got up the pitch a little bit more and won a couple of late corners of which we nearly scored from one.

I'd like DS to shift from his mindset a little that CF must always play centrally for every single minute of every game next season as Watkins out wide could be a nice little plan B option for some of the tougher home and away games next season.

I agree with this, definitely on the Neto type option. Also when you look at Man City, they don’t even play with a centre forward at times. I know their quality is immense but it shows that the traditional No. 9 is not always the way.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Luke8 on March 06, 2021, 09:10:34 PM
To be fair, you do see Watkins drift left and look to play/get in between the full back and centre back quite a bit. And he links well with Jack.
Just, as with a lot of our attacking play, that this fall down quite a bit when Jack isn’t there.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on March 11, 2021, 01:14:15 AM
So, because we've a young squad that like playing games until 2am we don't start training til 12pm as they then get adequate sleep.

Is this a good idea?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AV82EC on March 11, 2021, 07:55:40 AM
Yes.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on March 11, 2021, 08:57:37 AM
Quote from: Drummond on March 11, 2021, 01:14:15 AM
So, because we've a young squad that like playing games until 2am we don't start training til 12pm as they then get adequate sleep.

Is this a good idea?

I'd probably think so if I worked there! Amble in at 11.30, lovely!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on March 11, 2021, 09:01:59 AM
Meets their needs, no excuse for broken gates either!

I think it's quite a progressive idea for a manager to be honest. Not sure how many other clubs do it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on March 11, 2021, 09:34:19 AM
Where has that been reported ? Luiz is addicted to Call Of Duty so it probably explains his drop in form.

Didn't this type of shit cause David James to drop clangers at Liverpool and help Yanited win the league 25 years ago?

Confiscate the consoles and grow the fcuk up.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on March 11, 2021, 09:38:16 AM
Quote from: eamonn on March 11, 2021, 09:34:19 AM
Where has that been reported ? Luiz is addicted to Call Of Duty so it probably explains his drop in form.

Didn't this type of shit cause David James to drop clangers at Liverpool and help Yanited win the league 25 years ago?

Confiscate the consoles and grow the fcuk up.

Maybe it's down to the fact there's fuck all to do for wealthy young men at present, and if they're spending their spare time playing COD it's a damn site more acceptable than some of the others things they might be tempted into.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on March 11, 2021, 09:46:04 AM
Quote from: LeeB on March 11, 2021, 09:38:16 AM
Quote from: eamonn on March 11, 2021, 09:34:19 AM
Where has that been reported ? Luiz is addicted to Call Of Duty so it probably explains his drop in form.

Didn't this type of shit cause David James to drop clangers at Liverpool and help Yanited win the league 25 years ago?

Confiscate the consoles and grow the fcuk up.

Maybe it's down to the fact there's fuck all to do for wealthy young men at present, and if they're spending their spare time playing COD it's a damn site more acceptable than some of the others things they might be tempted into.

Fortnight?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Monty on March 11, 2021, 09:51:25 AM
Quote from: mr underhill on March 06, 2021, 08:38:32 PM
play Bert centrally and OW wide.

Disagree, Bert is better with a slightly more limited brief, and Ollie's energy to run across the line shouldn't be restricted.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on March 11, 2021, 10:25:06 AM
Quote from: Monty on March 11, 2021, 09:51:25 AM
Quote from: mr underhill on March 06, 2021, 08:38:32 PM
play Bert centrally and OW wide.

Disagree, Bert is better with a slightly more limited brief, and Ollie's energy to run across the line shouldn't be restricted.

That's good point actually, I played up front on my own for a couple of years and hated it when we did switch to a two as they'd just get in the way of my runs.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on March 11, 2021, 10:27:30 AM
Quote from: Risso on March 11, 2021, 09:46:04 AM
Quote from: LeeB on March 11, 2021, 09:38:16 AM
Quote from: eamonn on March 11, 2021, 09:34:19 AM
Where has that been reported ? Luiz is addicted to Call Of Duty so it probably explains his drop in form.

Didn't this type of shit cause David James to drop clangers at Liverpool and help Yanited win the league 25 years ago?

Confiscate the consoles and grow the fcuk up.

Maybe it's down to the fact there's fuck all to do for wealthy young men at present, and if they're spending their spare time playing COD it's a damn site more acceptable than some of the others things they might be tempted into.

Fortnight?

Pokemon Go
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Smithy on March 11, 2021, 10:43:34 AM
Quote from: LeeB on March 11, 2021, 10:27:30 AM
Quote from: Risso on March 11, 2021, 09:46:04 AM
Quote from: LeeB on March 11, 2021, 09:38:16 AM
Quote from: eamonn on March 11, 2021, 09:34:19 AM
Where has that been reported ? Luiz is addicted to Call Of Duty so it probably explains his drop in form.

Didn't this type of shit cause David James to drop clangers at Liverpool and help Yanited win the league 25 years ago?

Confiscate the consoles and grow the fcuk up.

Maybe it's down to the fact there's fuck all to do for wealthy young men at present, and if they're spending their spare time playing COD it's a damn site more acceptable than some of the others things they might be tempted into.

Fortnight?

Pokemon Go

I've often wondered why so many teams train in the mornings, considering pretty much every game they play is in the afternoon or evening.  It might not be sociable, but it feels (to my untrained eye) that training at times similar to when you'll actually play would be a better way to prepare your body?

I'm sure there is plenty of sports science that will point to be being wrong about that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OCD on March 11, 2021, 10:49:17 AM
There was an article in the Athletic about how seriously sleep is taken at elite level. Ferguson may have started it but clubs probably have a sleep strategy based around game time nowadays. With this week's game being an 8pm kick-off, it wouldn't surprise me if training times had been pushed back to later in the day compared to what they would be with an earlier kick-off.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on March 11, 2021, 10:51:34 AM
Quote from: OCD on March 11, 2021, 10:49:17 AM
There was an article in the Athletic about how seriously sleep is taken at elite level. Ferguson may have started it but clubs probably have a sleep strategy based around game time nowadays. With this week's game being an 8pm kick-off, it wouldn't surprise me if training times had been pushed back to later in the day compared to what they would be with an earlier kick-off.

I remember seeing some program a couple of years showing the deluxe sleeping quarters that had been installed at Real Madrids training ground, so they could take scheduled naps for those purposes.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on March 11, 2021, 10:58:45 AM
I know plenty of adults who still play games, especially now there is nothing to do or anyone to see. I know a few surfers through work and they are the last people I'd expect to go out and purchase PS4's and be online playing fighting games. A lot of it is due to having their freedom removed. They would normally be travelling the North Devon and North Cornwall coastlines finding the waves, now they only surf as and when locally and our coastline in the south isn't that great for surf.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on March 11, 2021, 01:35:55 PM
Quote from: LeeB on March 11, 2021, 10:51:34 AM
Quote from: OCD on March 11, 2021, 10:49:17 AM
There was an article in the Athletic about how seriously sleep is taken at elite level. Ferguson may have started it but clubs probably have a sleep strategy based around game time nowadays. With this week's game being an 8pm kick-off, it wouldn't surprise me if training times had been pushed back to later in the day compared to what they would be with an earlier kick-off.
I remember seeing some program a couple of years showing the deluxe sleeping quarters that had been installed at Real Madrids training ground, so they could take scheduled naps for those purposes.
Leeds have done the same thing.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on March 11, 2021, 01:44:34 PM
Quote from: Mister E on March 11, 2021, 01:35:55 PM
Quote from: LeeB on March 11, 2021, 10:51:34 AM
Quote from: OCD on March 11, 2021, 10:49:17 AM
There was an article in the Athletic about how seriously sleep is taken at elite level. Ferguson may have started it but clubs probably have a sleep strategy based around game time nowadays. With this week's game being an 8pm kick-off, it wouldn't surprise me if training times had been pushed back to later in the day compared to what they would be with an earlier kick-off.
I remember seeing some program a couple of years showing the deluxe sleeping quarters that had been installed at Real Madrids training ground, so they could take scheduled naps for those purposes.
Leeds have done the same thing.

When they're defending?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on March 11, 2021, 02:15:06 PM
All hail Bielsa!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on March 11, 2021, 03:28:20 PM
Quote from: LeeB on March 11, 2021, 01:44:34 PM
Quote from: Mister E on March 11, 2021, 01:35:55 PM
Quote from: LeeB on March 11, 2021, 10:51:34 AM
Quote from: OCD on March 11, 2021, 10:49:17 AM
There was an article in the Athletic about how seriously sleep is taken at elite level. Ferguson may have started it but clubs probably have a sleep strategy based around game time nowadays. With this week's game being an 8pm kick-off, it wouldn't surprise me if training times had been pushed back to later in the day compared to what they would be with an earlier kick-off.
I remember seeing some program a couple of years showing the deluxe sleeping quarters that had been installed at Real Madrids training ground, so they could take scheduled naps for those purposes.
Leeds have done the same thing.
When they're defending?
Boom tish!!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on March 12, 2021, 11:07:03 PM
4 wins in 14 and only 12 goals. The formation isn't working and the substitutions are too slow. Ramsey should have come off at 45 minutes tonight. Must do better, we are starting too many games very very pedestrian. Teams are finding defending against us too easy. Time for a change instead of rotating a couple of midfielders each game in the same positions.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on March 12, 2021, 11:12:48 PM
Quote from: aj2k77 on March 12, 2021, 11:07:03 PM
4 wins in 14 and only 12 goals. The formation isn't working and the substitutions are too slow. Ramsey should have come off at 45 minutes tonight. Must do better, we are starting too many games very very pedestrian. Teams are finding defending against us too easy. Time for a change instead of rotating a couple of midfielders each game in the same positions.

I agree, without Jack there's a massive quality black hole between the defence and Watkins up front, and Smith just isn't good enough tactically to be able to adapt to bad performances. Once we start off badly, that's it, the whole game usually turns out to be crap.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy65 on March 12, 2021, 11:24:01 PM
Quote from: Risso on March 12, 2021, 11:12:48 PM
Quote from: aj2k77 on March 12, 2021, 11:07:03 PM
4 wins in 14 and only 12 goals. The formation isn't working and the substitutions are too slow. Ramsey should have come off at 45 minutes tonight. Must do better, we are starting too many games very very pedestrian. Teams are finding defending against us too easy. Time for a change instead of rotating a couple of midfielders each game in the same positions.

I agree, without Jack there's a massive quality black hole between the defence and Watkins up front, and Smith just isn't good enough tactically to be able to adapt to bad performances. Once we start off badly, that's it, the whole game usually turns out to be crap.

A running theme of the last three seasons
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OzVilla on March 12, 2021, 11:25:12 PM
This run of performances could prove a blessing perversely. He can have no excuses about not knowing exactly what we need in the Summer. Assuming we keeping hold of Luiz it all about striker, winger, attacking midfielder. All must be high end quality though to take us to the next level.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 12, 2021, 11:27:07 PM
He is getting more wrong than right, it is Mings Konsa and Martinez that are holding this team together.
We are in a terrible run of form with so many players off the pace and looking jaded.
Without Jack we are a lower league team.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on March 12, 2021, 11:31:55 PM
Season is petering out very badly, Smith needs to turn this around or I don't think he will survive the summer. There isn't anything remotely progressive about the style of football being played, it's as bad as anything I can recall watching Villa to be honest. His record as head coach without Jack in the team is verging on embarrassing.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OzVilla on March 12, 2021, 11:37:25 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on March 12, 2021, 11:27:07 PM
He is getting more wrong than right, it is Mings Konsa and Martinez that are holding this team together.
We are in a terrible run of form with so many players off the pace and looking jaded.
Without Jack we are a lower league team.


“Lower league team” what like championship? 14 clean sheets in the PL (should just have been 15). We are bang average mid table in the form guide in 2021. Performances have dropped off. But lower league team?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on March 12, 2021, 11:46:08 PM
Some of these latest posts are embarrassing. If it was any other club we'd be ripping the piss out of them. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on March 12, 2021, 11:50:06 PM
Quote from: brontebilly on March 12, 2021, 11:31:55 PM
Season is petering out very badly, Smith needs to turn this around or I don't think he will survive the summer. There isn't anything remotely progressive about the style of football being played, it's as bad as anything I can recall watching Villa to be honest. His record as head coach without Jack in the team is verging on embarrassing.

Bit OTT.

It's a disappointing patch but ulimately teams that finish 9th or 10th like this one will don't win 20 + games in a season.

We're broadly having the same season we had in MON's first year and most seasons under Gregory. In 2000/01 season we won 13 games all season to finish 8th so one win off that total now.

It's a mid table season. Perhaps we could've done more but it will do for now.

Think last few weeks have shown to be a credible challenger for european football we need much more. One to stop our basic whole world revolving around Jack Grealish as good as he is. Another is we can't be taken seriously for europe while our backup striker remains Keinan Davis (and we need to be patient with Wes as 14 months out is a huge amount of time) so a good one needs to be signed. And we need real quality on the right.

Do all that and we can be better next season. A bit more rotation in the first few months with key players wouldn't go amiss either as in last 20 years we seem to have made it an art form to be in good positons in the league around Feb and then we barely win a game from that point as our first 11 has been run into the ground.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on March 12, 2021, 11:57:11 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on March 12, 2021, 11:46:08 PM
Some of these latest posts are embarrassing. If it was any other club we'd be ripping the piss out of them. 
My thoughts exactly.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on March 13, 2021, 12:06:24 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on March 12, 2021, 11:46:08 PM
Some of these latest posts are embarrassing. If it was any other club we'd be ripping the piss out of them.

It's always the same. Passions run high when we don't win.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on March 13, 2021, 12:16:31 AM
Quote from: Drummond on March 13, 2021, 12:06:24 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on March 12, 2021, 11:46:08 PM
Some of these latest posts are embarrassing. If it was any other club we'd be ripping the piss out of them.

It's always the same. Passions run high when we don't win.

Perhaps a bit of perspective might be called for.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy65 on March 13, 2021, 12:18:30 AM
Quote from: Drummond on March 13, 2021, 12:06:24 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on March 12, 2021, 11:46:08 PM
Some of these latest posts are embarrassing. If it was any other club we'd be ripping the piss out of them.

It's always the same. Passions run high when we don't win.

Not sure about that. It’s when the performances are consistently poor to bang average that we all get frustrated
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tomd2103 on March 13, 2021, 12:28:34 AM
Still think his hands are tied somewhat by the fact that some of the squad aren't up to it and it limits his options.  The injury to Grealish hasn't helped and he's been let down by Barkley who was brought in to make a difference.

We have been struggling since the COVID break, but we have made strides this season so far.  If we can strengthen the squad again in the summer so that there are genuine options, then I think that next season will be the time to judge Dean Smith properly.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on March 13, 2021, 12:28:47 AM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on March 12, 2021, 11:50:06 PM
Quote from: brontebilly on March 12, 2021, 11:31:55 PM
Season is petering out very badly, Smith needs to turn this around or I don't think he will survive the summer. There isn't anything remotely progressive about the style of football being played, it's as bad as anything I can recall watching Villa to be honest. His record as head coach without Jack in the team is verging on embarrassing.

Bit OTT.

It's a disappointing patch but ulimately teams that finish 9th or 10th like this one will don't win 20 + games in a season.

We're broadly having the same season we had in MON's first year and most seasons under Gregory. In 2000/01 season we won 13 games all season to finish 8th so one win off that total now.

It's a mid table season. Perhaps we could've done more but it will do for now.

Think last few weeks have shown to be a credible challenger for european football we need much more. One to stop our basic whole world revolving around Jack Grealish as good as he is. Another is we can't be taken seriously for europe while our backup striker remains Keinan Davis (and we need to be patient with Wes as 14 months out is a huge amount of time) so a good one needs to be signed. And we need real quality on the right.

Do all that and we can be better next season. A bit more rotation in the first few months with key players wouldn't go amiss either as in last 20 years we seem to have made it an art form to be in good positons in the league around Feb and then we barely win a game from that point as our first 11 has been run into the ground.

If this run continues do you think there is any chance of Grealish staying this season? I don't I have to say. Earlier in the season, even if results were patchy, we were still playing good football and looked a team of promise. Now we are playing a shite version of Pulisball. 

It's a strange season for various reasons but it's also a low quality league. Moyes West Ham who were also fighting relegation last season are up chasing a European spot. Having spent the bones of 90m this season and having one of the best players in the division in our team, I think we had the chance to really kick on this year.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan82 on March 13, 2021, 12:31:36 AM
We all saw a short-cut to the big time opening up midway through the season. We saw a bright future where we could realistically play in Europe for the first time in a decade.

That is now looking unlikely and it is disappointing. Yes, would have taken it at the start of the season but it is disappointing to see it peter out (especially when one or two players might get itchy feet in the summer).
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on March 13, 2021, 04:38:23 AM
We are still very much a team in the making and poor runs of form are quite often a sign of this. I have no doubts that the team will continue to move forward with a couple of positive purchases in the summer and we will steadily build over the next few years. Whilst it’s frustrating seeing performances like this, we are safely in mid-table and are likely to be up and down.  I am sure that Dean Smith sees exactly what we see and will improve talent in the squad going forward.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 13, 2021, 06:20:52 AM
Quote from: OzVilla on March 12, 2021, 11:37:25 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on March 12, 2021, 11:27:07 PM
He is getting more wrong than right, it is Mings Konsa and Martinez that are holding this team together.
We are in a terrible run of form with so many players off the pace and looking jaded.
Without Jack we are a lower league team.


“Lower league team” what like championship? 14 clean sheets in the PL (should just have been 15). We are bang average mid table in the form guide in 2021. Performances have dropped off. But lower league team?
I meant lower as in nearer the bottom not Div 4 FFS.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on March 13, 2021, 06:55:28 AM
Quote from: Steve67 on March 13, 2021, 04:38:23 AM
We are still very much a team in the making and poor runs of form are quite often a sign of this. I have no doubts that the team will continue to move forward with a couple of positive purchases in the summer and we will steadily build over the next few years. Whilst it’s frustrating seeing performances like this, we are safely in mid-table and are likely to be up and down.  I am sure that Dean Smith sees exactly what we see and will improve talent in the squad going forward.

Sorry I don’t agree with any of that
We are not a team in the making we are a team that relies on Grealish

Without him we are a bottom half side
Maybe not bottom three but bottom six probably

Without Grealish we are no better than Newcastle

Some of you guys that think we are progressing in the right direction and Smith has it all under control are going to get a very big surprise if Grealish leaves
And let’s face it why should the best in England stay and play with Players who aren’t good enough to lace his boots

we are not progressing into a very good side we can look a very good side because we have one of the best players in the world
Yes we will get wins without him the same way as Sheffield United Newcastle and all the other teams in the bottom half get a few wins

But we are very ordinary bang average slow no creativity with literally zero ideas from management side
Yes I might get accused of overreacting and my post being embarrassing but what’s more embarrassing is that shower of shit that I saw last night trying to play football
Absolute garbage on and off the pitch

Sorry for the embarrassing post Dave but I don’t give a shit


Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on March 13, 2021, 07:15:30 AM
I'm not sure that's true, because if Grealish goes we'll have more money than we've ever had to spend on players.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on March 13, 2021, 07:42:39 AM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on March 13, 2021, 07:15:30 AM
I'm not sure that's true, because if Grealish goes we'll have more money than we've ever had to spend on players.

You’ll still need an elite manager to take the team into the top six though if that’s our ambition
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on March 13, 2021, 08:04:04 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on March 13, 2021, 12:16:31 AM
Quote from: Drummond on March 13, 2021, 12:06:24 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on March 12, 2021, 11:46:08 PM
Some of these latest posts are embarrassing. If it was any other club we'd be ripping the piss out of them.

It's always the same. Passions run high when we don't win.

Perhaps a bit of perspective might be called for.

Or maybe another Smith Out thread won't be long in coming.

He got us up, he kept us up and we're currently sitting mid-table. He ain't done too bad you know. This season was always going to be about being a bit more solid and aiming for a top ten finish. Next season we need to step up a gear. Let's take it one season as a time shall we? We could have been playing Coventry this weekend.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan For Life on March 13, 2021, 08:20:40 AM
Quote from: Clampy on March 13, 2021, 08:04:04 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on March 13, 2021, 12:16:31 AM
Quote from: Drummond on March 13, 2021, 12:06:24 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on March 12, 2021, 11:46:08 PM
Some of these latest posts are embarrassing. If it was any other club we'd be ripping the piss out of them.

It's always the same. Passions run high when we don't win.

Perhaps a bit of perspective might be called for.

Or maybe another Smith Out thread won't be long in coming.

He got us up, he kept us up and we're currently sitting mid-table. He ain't done too bad you know. This season was always going to be about being a bit more solid and aiming for a top ten finish. Next season we need to step up a gear. Let's take it one season as a time shall we? We could have been playing Coventry this weekend.

We are a work in progress and I’m happy with the progress that we have made. Some people have such short memories, and as others have said let’s have a little perspective.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OzVilla on March 13, 2021, 08:26:09 AM
We all probably just got carried away a bit. We’re football fans, it’s what we do.

I for one am happy to revel in a mid table ‘on the beach’ end to a Premier League  season for a change.

This morning (or last night) I just watched the game. It’s one of the few times I could recall watching us without really worrying about what the result may be. It was quite liberating.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 13, 2021, 08:36:09 AM
Quote from: john e on March 13, 2021, 06:55:28 AM
Quote from: Steve67 on March 13, 2021, 04:38:23 AM
We are still very much a team in the making and poor runs of form are quite often a sign of this. I have no doubts that the team will continue to move forward with a couple of positive purchases in the summer and we will steadily build over the next few years. Whilst it’s frustrating seeing performances like this, we are safely in mid-table and are likely to be up and down.  I am sure that Dean Smith sees exactly what we see and will improve talent in the squad going forward.

Sorry I don’t agree with any of that
We are not a team in the making we are a team that relies on Grealish

Without him we are a bottom half side
Maybe not bottom three but bottom six probably

Without Grealish we are no better than Newcastle

Some of you guys that think we are progressing in the right direction and Smith has it all under control are going to get a very big surprise if Grealish leaves
And let’s face it why should the best in England stay and play with Players who aren’t good enough to lace his boots

we are not progressing into a very good side we can look a very good side because we have one of the best players in the world
Yes we will get wins without him the same way as Sheffield United Newcastle and all the other teams in the bottom half get a few wins

But we are very ordinary bang average slow no creativity with literally zero ideas from management side
Yes I might get accused of overreacting and my post being embarrassing but what’s more embarrassing is that shower of shit that I saw last night trying to play football
Absolute garbage on and off the pitch

Sorry for the embarrassing post Dave but I don’t give a shit
I think we have won 4 out of 20 PL games without Grealish
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rigadon on March 13, 2021, 09:01:54 AM
I wonder if he is the man to get us back to winning titles - a task that would be massive for any manager in the world - but on the whole, he's done a brilliant job since he arrived.  Much will depend on how we finish the season I think, and if it completely falls on its arse there might well be temptation from our owners to go and get a 'big name'.
 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on March 13, 2021, 09:02:16 AM
Quote from: Villan For Life on March 13, 2021, 08:20:40 AM

We are a work in progress and I’m happy with the progress that we have made. Some people have such short memories, and as others have said let’s have a little perspective.

Or, let's not settle for mediocrity and just letting things fizzle out. We could lose every game from now until the end of the season and finish on more points than we did last year. I doubt that the word "perspective" would be used as much if that happened though.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on March 13, 2021, 09:04:14 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on March 13, 2021, 08:36:09 AM
Quote from: john e on March 13, 2021, 06:55:28 AM
Quote from: Steve67 on March 13, 2021, 04:38:23 AM
We are still very much a team in the making and poor runs of form are quite often a sign of this. I have no doubts that the team will continue to move forward with a couple of positive purchases in the summer and we will steadily build over the next few years. Whilst it’s frustrating seeing performances like this, we are safely in mid-table and are likely to be up and down.  I am sure that Dean Smith sees exactly what we see and will improve talent in the squad going forward.

Sorry I don’t agree with any of that
We are not a team in the making we are a team that relies on Grealish

Without him we are a bottom half side
Maybe not bottom three but bottom six probably

Without Grealish we are no better than Newcastle

Some of you guys that think we are progressing in the right direction and Smith has it all under control are going to get a very big surprise if Grealish leaves
And let’s face it why should the best in England stay and play with Players who aren’t good enough to lace his boots

we are not progressing into a very good side we can look a very good side because we have one of the best players in the world
Yes we will get wins without him the same way as Sheffield United Newcastle and all the other teams in the bottom half get a few wins

But we are very ordinary bang average slow no creativity with literally zero ideas from management side
Yes I might get accused of overreacting and my post being embarrassing but what’s more embarrassing is that shower of shit that I saw last night trying to play football
Absolute garbage on and off the pitch

Sorry for the embarrassing post Dave but I don’t give a shit
I think we have won 4 out of 20 PL games without Grealish

There was a point when we hadn't won many PL games with him. Some stat was doing the rounds last season which also took into consideration his appearances before relegation.
Obviously we would all love to have Jack back in the team, his worth is without doubt, but as annoying as the last few games have been without him, I'm not going to downplay the roles that our back five (especially with Cash to return) and Ollie have been playing this season. The problem is the midfield area (and I include our wide players in that) and cover for Ollie. Barkley was brought in under ffp restrictions (though I gather we're still playing plenty for him) to give us an alternative to Jack when attacking, but he's been hugely disappointing, that doesn't mean to say we won't be going for a better player(s) in the summer window to take the load off Jack. I can understand frustrations, but I can also see the strides forward we have made in over 2 seasons.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on March 13, 2021, 09:14:57 AM
Quote from: Villan For Life on March 13, 2021, 08:20:40 AM
Quote from: Clampy on March 13, 2021, 08:04:04 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on March 13, 2021, 12:16:31 AM
Quote from: Drummond on March 13, 2021, 12:06:24 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on March 12, 2021, 11:46:08 PM
Some of these latest posts are embarrassing. If it was any other club we'd be ripping the piss out of them.

It's always the same. Passions run high when we don't win.

Perhaps a bit of perspective might be called for.

Or maybe another Smith Out thread won't be long in coming.

He got us up, he kept us up and we're currently sitting mid-table. He ain't done too bad you know. This season was always going to be about being a bit more solid and aiming for a top ten finish. Next season we need to step up a gear. Let's take it one season as a time shall we? We could have been playing Coventry this weekend.

We are a work in progress and I’m happy with the progress that we have made. Some people have such short memories, and as others have said let’s have a little perspective.

We are the Jack Grealish show without him there is no show


Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on March 13, 2021, 09:17:32 AM
We're going through one of those periods that we have gone through each season since Smith has been here were by all the good things we have been doing in previous matches just seems to have evaporated away and we look lethargic and slow. Previously we got out of these runs and click again via a decent half (Stoke away), although the next game coincided with the return of Jack and that 10 game run so that was a bigger factor but the players and fans definately clicked again initially in that 2nd half at Stoke and then last season we gained an advantage from the Covid break and we managed to play better and stay up.

Its been a hard watch the last few weeks but the positive this time is we have a much better defence so are still able to grind out results during this period were by the last couple of seasons these runs were met with thrashings by the likes of Wigan and Watford so theres definately progress there on that front.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 13, 2021, 09:19:37 AM
The stride forward is we are much more difficult to beat.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: JuanMartinez on March 13, 2021, 09:21:32 AM
Really happy with DS, another huge progressional season under him when allowing perspective. Looking forward to next season already especially with a full VP, well done Deano.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nunkin1965 on March 13, 2021, 09:23:02 AM
I wonder how many times the word "patience" has been mentioned on this site?
Dean Smith is on a hiding to nothing with a lot of posters and the progress made is now old news.
Thats fine but I'll support his season on season progress while he's making it and the evidence suggests he is doing just that.
There's obviously an over reliance on Jack and the squad isn't strong enough. We miss Cash at right back which also points to squad depth but were not even 2 years into our Premier League return and the development and quality of players is a long tern project. It won't happen but I'd suggest that those hideous 8 letters  need to be applied a bit more.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on March 13, 2021, 09:26:01 AM
Here's a weird one. The Grauniad reported Smith as saying of last night's game: “We didn’t deserve to win. It was a very scrappy game, we have a few players short on confidence and we’re not creating chances.”
Given that we are safe for the season, have outperformed on expectations and have a great platform to build on, why do we have players short on confidence and why  - if that is the case - is the manager playing them?!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on March 13, 2021, 09:34:14 AM
What team, anywhere bar perhaps Man City  wouldn't rely on Grealish?

Barca would rely on Grealish. Thank goodness they're beyond skint.

Saying we're reliant on the best player in the league isn't the put down or sage analysis some seem to think it is.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on March 13, 2021, 09:34:28 AM
This perspective thing it’s quite an interesting one

I spent two years arguing with the same posters on here about Steve Bruce
Their perspective was he was doing a good job or steadying the ship some of them even enjoying his football down in the championship
Whereas from my perspective I hated football in the championship and hated Bruceball as well

So perspective can be looked at from two different sites

If we hadn’t got Grealish Smith wouldn’t still be here
Grealish is the reason we gained promotion Grealish is the reason we stayed in the league last season Grealish is the reason we are midway in the premiership this season

Without Grealish we are the team we saw last night
That’s not looking back with perspective that’s just what you can see in front of your eyes
What is it 4 out of 20 we’ve won without him

Keeping Grealish is the key to our future
But the manager whether it’s Smith or someone else needs to build a team capable of performing with him and competing at a higher level than we are now
He has been backed with multi million pounds worth of money
Yet without our talisman player we are bereft and look no better than fodder teams in the prem


Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on March 13, 2021, 09:35:45 AM
Bruce was probably a Ryan Frederick's red car away from getting us up. Thank goodness it worked out like it did.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: JuanMartinez on March 13, 2021, 09:36:30 AM
* Hired Late 2018

* Promoted only  6 months later 2019 after club record breaking 10 winning games

* 2020 - premier league status maintained at first attempt / cup final runners up to Man City

* 2021- probable 8th - 10th PL finish

Stats don’t lie amigos.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: JuanMartinez on March 13, 2021, 09:41:00 AM
Quote from: Ads on March 13, 2021, 09:34:14 AM
What team, anywhere bar perhaps Man City  wouldn't rely on Grealish?

Barca would rely on Grealish. Thank goodness they're beyond skint.

Saying we're reliant on the best player in the league isn't the put down or sage analysis some seem to think it is.

I would also add, as good as Man City are, take KDB out of that team for a considerable period or completely and see how they get on?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on March 13, 2021, 09:41:54 AM
The other thing to say about perspective is that it’s changed

We were struggling at the bottom of the premiership then we went down and we wanted to get back and the perspective was if we can just get back to the premiership we can start to build slowly again

That perspective changed with the new owners
It’s a completely different scenario
Some of you guys think it’s still the same but it’s not a change that day

We are now the second richest premiership club
We are the biggest club in the Midlands
We still have one of the greatest players in the world in our team
Our perspective has changed

We need to start seeing ourselves as competing for a top six place
Set the bar higher not lower
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on March 13, 2021, 09:42:09 AM
Man City are a freak. They've got a quarter billion of full backs. De Bruyne is off the pace, but they're playing a different sport by different rules to everybody else.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on March 13, 2021, 09:43:19 AM
When things are going well praise is deserved. When performances are routinely poor then criticism is deserved. No one has said he hasn't done a good job. He's done a great job but it still doesn't change the fact we've looked pretty poor for the past 2 months and with it comes criticism for mistakes and suggestions on how to improve.

The same formation week in week out with wingers and a center mid shuffled about for instance isn't good enough. It isn't the first time we've struggled to arrest a slide, he needs to be more proactive.

The first occasion we had Grealish come back from an injury and our results sky rocketed.
The second occasion we had a covid break where we could re-assess and make changes (which should have been made in season anyway)
This is the third occasion we've had a poor run, will Grealish lift us again? Possibly. But Smith needs to be more pro-active in arresting the slides as we go.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: JuanMartinez on March 13, 2021, 09:48:35 AM
A poor run that without JG we have lost TWO matches, both by the odd goal and one of them a top 4 side.

Granted the performances have not been great but some perspective as opposed to hysteria would go down a treat.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on March 13, 2021, 09:51:48 AM
Well I appreciate everyone has their own views and opinions

But I’ve vented now so I’m gonna leave it there for now but I’m sure not forever

Have a good weekend everyone and UTV

 

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on March 13, 2021, 09:56:51 AM
Quote from: JuanMartinez on March 13, 2021, 09:48:35 AM
A poor run that without JG we have lost TWO matches, both by the odd goal and one of them a top 4 side.

Granted the performances have not been great but some perspective as opposed to hysteria would go down a treat.


Boring, perspective has been offered. Please don't go down the Steve Bruce route of claiming hysterics when criticisms are being made.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mrfuse on March 13, 2021, 10:01:45 AM
Quote from: john e on March 13, 2021, 06:55:28 AM
Quote from: Steve67 on March 13, 2021, 04:38:23 AM
We are still very much a team in the making and poor runs of form are quite often a sign of this. I have no doubts that the team will continue to move forward with a couple of positive purchases in the summer and we will steadily build over the next few years. Whilst it’s frustrating seeing performances like this, we are safely in mid-table and are likely to be up and down.  I am sure that Dean Smith sees exactly what we see and will improve talent in the squad going forward.

Sorry I don’t agree with any of that
We are not a team in the making we are a team that relies on Grealish

Without him we are a bottom half side
Maybe not bottom three but bottom six probably

Without Grealish we are no better than Newcastle

Some of you guys that think we are progressing in the right direction and Smith has it all under control are going to get a very big surprise if Grealish leaves
And let’s face it why should the best in England stay and play with Players who aren’t good enough to lace his boots

we are not progressing into a very good side we can look a very good side because we have one of the best players in the world
Yes we will get wins without him the same way as Sheffield United Newcastle and all the other teams in the bottom half get a few wins

But we are very ordinary bang average slow no creativity with literally zero ideas from management side
Yes I might get accused of overreacting and my post being embarrassing but what’s more embarrassing is that shower of shit that I saw last night trying to play football
Absolute garbage on and off the pitch

Sorry for the embarrassing post Dave but I don’t give a shit


You say without Grealish were no better than Newcastle?

Name one player in their squad that you would swap with one of ours?
Look at the players that are coming through the youth system that we've invested in.

Any team misses their best player and Grealish is exceptional but we hold all the cards. We get a massive transfer fee and Grealish is going isint going to Sulk and strike if we hold out until we do.

We look like we have decent owners so if things don't quite work out with Dean then were in a position to attract pretty much attract who we want.

Were 9th in the table and I would say yep about right and I have no reason to think we cant better that next season.


Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: DB on March 13, 2021, 10:03:36 AM
As someone posted, we have a solid defence, it's the midfield that is the issue. That area need a serious uplift next season, Jack is obviously the outstanding player but he needs players at least to compliment him. Also l, the management needs sort out the mf, they had, again like Sheffield Utd and Wolves, no idea going forwards.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on March 13, 2021, 10:17:42 AM
We have a solid backbone with the back five, Grealish, Watkins and a couple of others added to that.  We need upgrades on others, Rome wasn't built in a day and neither will Villa.  Any team other than Man City would be reliant on what Grealish gives us, therefore we have to build a team around him and we started to show signs of that earlier in the season before we got found out.  We have to go through the cycles to move forward.  We have Lange scouring the world for talent that will fit alongside Grealish. Another couple of really good signings this summer will do us the world of good.  We have moved forward under Dean Smith, that is absolutely irrefutable. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tomd2103 on March 13, 2021, 10:32:02 AM
Quote from: DB on March 13, 2021, 10:03:36 AM
As someone posted, we have a solid defence, it's the midfield that is the issue. That area need a serious uplift next season, Jack is obviously the outstanding player but he needs players at least to compliment him. Also l, the management needs sort out the mf, they had, again like Sheffield Utd and Wolves, no idea going forwards.

Think Luiz has had a dip in form recently, but was good up until then.  I still think McGinn would be more effective and that we would be better version of a Nakamba type of player on there.  I look at Leicester and West Ham and both of them have a solid midfield pairing and then a more advanced player in a more advanced role. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PhilVill on March 13, 2021, 10:51:41 AM
I think Smith knows he needs more creativity in midfield which is why Barkley was brought in. Sadly Barkley most certainly hasnt worked out but was worth a punt. I have no doubt that Villa will spend big on at least two midfielders at the end of the season and that Wesley will be given a gruelling pre seaaon too to add another quality striker to the mix. If we spend well again I think Dean should then be given realistic targets by the CEO in terms of further progress and rightly be put under pressire to deliver. I think we'll break the 50 point barrier this season and lets face it, we would all have been delighted with this six months ago. At the moment all thats happening is the players we thought werent really good enough to push on are proving they arent really good enough.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on March 13, 2021, 10:54:39 AM
He won't get us up. We got up but that was because of Grealish.

He won't keep us up. We stayed up but that was because of Grealish.

We'll struggle again. We haven't struggled but that's because of Grealish.

It's getting a bit monotonous now. We've had 2 1/2 years of almost unbroken progress yet every time we look poor in a couple of games it's sack the manager. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on March 13, 2021, 10:56:40 AM
Dave you sound like Steve Bruce here, very very few have said sack the manager or ''off with his head''. He's simply been criticised for a perceived slowness in changing games when things aren't working and the regimental choice of formation no matter what.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on March 13, 2021, 10:59:53 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on March 13, 2021, 10:54:39 AM
He won't get us up. We got up but that was because of Grealish.

He won't keep us up. We stayed up but that was because of Grealish.

We'll struggle again. We haven't struggled but that's because of Grealish.

It's getting a bit monotonous now. We've had 2 1/2 years of almost unbroken progress yet every time we look poor in a couple of games it's sack the manager. 

Has anybody actually said "sack the manager"? I'd imagine that it would have to be a constant refrain for it to be monotonous, but haven't found a single post where anybody has said that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on March 13, 2021, 11:01:06 AM
Quote from: Risso on March 13, 2021, 10:59:53 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on March 13, 2021, 10:54:39 AM
He won't get us up. We got up but that was because of Grealish.

He won't keep us up. We stayed up but that was because of Grealish.

We'll struggle again. We haven't struggled but that's because of Grealish.

It's getting a bit monotonous now. We've had 2 1/2 years of almost unbroken progress yet every time we look poor in a couple of games it's sack the manager. 

Has anybody actually said "sack the manager"? I'd imagine that it would have to be a constant refrain for it to be monotonous, but haven't found a single post where anybody has said that.

It's hinted at often enough.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on March 13, 2021, 11:05:50 AM
So none at all then, that's sort of what I thought.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: RamboandBruno on March 13, 2021, 11:07:56 AM
Quote from: john e on March 13, 2021, 06:55:28 AM
Quote from: Steve67 on March 13, 2021, 04:38:23 AM
We are still very much a team in the making and poor runs of form are quite often a sign of this. I have no doubts that the team will continue to move forward with a couple of positive purchases in the summer and we will steadily build over the next few years. Whilst it’s frustrating seeing performances like this, we are safely in mid-table and are likely to be up and down.  I am sure that Dean Smith sees exactly what we see and will improve talent in the squad going forward.

Sorry I don’t agree with any of that
We are not a team in the making we are a team that relies on Grealish

Without him we are a bottom half side
Maybe not bottom three but bottom six probably

Without Grealish we are no better than Newcastle

Some of you guys that think we are progressing in the right direction and Smith has it all under control are going to get a very big surprise if Grealish leaves
And let’s face it why should the best in England stay and play with Players who aren’t good enough to lace his boots

we are not progressing into a very good side we can look a very good side because we have one of the best players in the world
Yes we will get wins without him the same way as Sheffield United Newcastle and all the other teams in the bottom half get a few wins

But we are very ordinary bang average slow no creativity with literally zero ideas from management side
Yes I might get accused of overreacting and my post being embarrassing but what’s more embarrassing is that shower of shit that I saw last night trying to play football
Absolute garbage on and off the pitch

Sorry for the embarrassing post Dave but I don’t give a shit

Not sure your post is embarrassing, it’s not very accurate. We’ve got the third best defense in the league for a start from the shit show it was last year. Smith got those players in, every one of them. Grealish doesn’t effect the defence in any way. We’re going through a bad run, like before that we went through a good run and we may well have another good run before the seasons out. Despite some bang average/poor performances over the last 6 or 7 games, we’re still on for our best top flight season in over a decade. Some perspective is badly needed here.

Someone else said on the thread, it has been the worst performances they’d seen in years recently, really?? Memories are really really short.

Finally what are Spurs like without Kane, Man Utd without rashford or Fernandes, Leicester without Vardy, I could go on. Every team other than Man City, misses their singularly best player when their not in the team.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on March 13, 2021, 11:12:15 AM
Quote from: Risso on March 13, 2021, 11:05:50 AM
So none at all then, that's sort of what I thought.

Then there's  the ones who've said he should go in the summer, while the one who said that Leicester and Chelsea sacked their managers was hardly delivering a ringing endorsement.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: baddowvillans on March 13, 2021, 11:14:59 AM
Quote from: JuanMartinez on March 13, 2021, 09:41:00 AM
Quote from: Ads on March 13, 2021, 09:34:14 AM
What team, anywhere bar perhaps Man City  wouldn't rely on Grealish?



I would also add, as good as Man City are, take KDB out of that team for a considerable period or completely and see how they get on?

Er Jack did and they kept on winning
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on March 13, 2021, 11:28:47 AM
Finally what are Spurs like without Kane, Man Utd without rashford or Fernandes, Leicester without Vardy, I could go on. Every team other than Man City, misses their singularly best player when their not in the team (RamboandBruno)

These were exactly my thoughts this morning.
It takes more than 2 years to undo 10 years of downward spiralling. With a solid back 5, Jack, Ollie and some of the other midfielders stepping up and being consistent we have the makings of a good team, which with supportive owners will only get better when we add to the squad.
We're going through a rough patch at the moment, that said we have only 2 less wins than chelski in 4th place and 3 less wins  than manure in 2nd and I'm sure we can all think of 2 or 3 games we should have won to equal those win stats. Man city aside we are not really that far off after two thirds of the season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on March 13, 2021, 11:32:23 AM
Quote from: Abbeyfealeavfc on March 13, 2021, 11:28:47 AM
Finally what are Spurs like without Kane, Man Utd without rashford or Fernandes, Leicester without Vardy, I could go on. Every team other than Man City, misses their singularly best player when their not in the team (RamboandBruno)

These were exactly my thoughts this morning.
It takes more than 2 years to undo 10 years of downward spiralling. With a solid back 5, Jack, Ollie and some of the other midfielders stepping up and being consistent we have the makings of a good team, which with supportive owners will only get better when we add to the squad.
We're going through a rough patch at the moment, that said we have only 2 less wins than chelski in 4th place and 3 less wins  than manure in 2nd and I'm sure we can all think of 2 or 3 games we should have won to equal those win stats. Man city aside we are not really that far off after two thirds of the season.

That's all true, but it's the run we're in at the moment that's concerning. With the quality of teams we've got left (8 out of 11 in the top 8) it's hard to see that this season isn't go to end in a quite a poor fashion results wise. Obviously staying up easily is great, as is the improved defence, it's just such a let down after the great start we had.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chris Smith on March 13, 2021, 11:45:07 AM
Quote from: Risso on March 13, 2021, 11:32:23 AM
Quote from: Abbeyfealeavfc on March 13, 2021, 11:28:47 AM
Finally what are Spurs like without Kane, Man Utd without rashford or Fernandes, Leicester without Vardy, I could go on. Every team other than Man City, misses their singularly best player when their not in the team (RamboandBruno)

These were exactly my thoughts this morning.
It takes more than 2 years to undo 10 years of downward spiralling. With a solid back 5, Jack, Ollie and some of the other midfielders stepping up and being consistent we have the makings of a good team, which with supportive owners will only get better when we add to the squad.
We're going through a rough patch at the moment, that said we have only 2 less wins than chelski in 4th place and 3 less wins  than manure in 2nd and I'm sure we can all think of 2 or 3 games we should have won to equal those win stats. Man city aside we are not really that far off after two thirds of the season.

That's all true, but it's the run we're in at the moment that's concerning. With the quality of teams we've got left (8 out of 11 in the top 8) it's hard to see that this season isn't go to end in a quite a poor fashion results wise. Obviously staying up easily is great, as is the improved defence, it's just such a let down after the great start we had.

It is disappointing but we probably over performed in the first half of the season and are under performing now, if we’d done it the other way round we’d all be much more enthused. We’ll likely finish in the middle third which is a reflection of our squad strength compared to those at the top. A few additions in the summer will hopefully help us take the next step.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: RamboandBruno on March 13, 2021, 12:01:22 PM
Quote from: Risso on March 13, 2021, 11:32:23 AM
Quote from: Abbeyfealeavfc on March 13, 2021, 11:28:47 AM
Finally what are Spurs like without Kane, Man Utd without rashford or Fernandes, Leicester without Vardy, I could go on. Every team other than Man City, misses their singularly best player when their not in the team (RamboandBruno)

These were exactly my thoughts this morning.
It takes more than 2 years to undo 10 years of downward spiralling. With a solid back 5, Jack, Ollie and some of the other midfielders stepping up and being consistent we have the makings of a good team, which with supportive owners will only get better when we add to the squad.
We're going through a rough patch at the moment, that said we have only 2 less wins than chelski in 4th place and 3 less wins  than manure in 2nd and I'm sure we can all think of 2 or 3 games we should have won to equal those win stats. Man city aside we are not really that far off after two thirds of the season.

That's all true, but it's the run we're in at the moment that's concerning. With the quality of teams we've got left (8 out of 11 in the top 8) it's hard to see that this season isn't go to end in a quite a poor fashion results wise. Obviously staying up easily is great, as is the improved defence, it's just such a let down after the great start we had.

I get this completely, and after watching us just about match a really shite Newcastle side, I felt really flat last night and this morning and your right we have got tough games to come. I just think football from kids football all the way through to the premier, is sometimes as much about confidence as tactics and anything else, and we have lost our mojo at the moment. Grealish and Cash coming back might feel like new signings though and as we found out in the promotion season, it’s things like that, that can tip the balance between poor and good performances.
I think there are a few players that aren’t good enough, despite periods in the season of playing well, Trez and El Ghazi stand out here, particular as wingers are so important in smiths tactics. But otherwise I believe we have the nucleus of a very good side with a good manager.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy65 on March 13, 2021, 12:08:02 PM
Quote from: john e on March 13, 2021, 09:41:54 AM
The other thing to say about perspective is that it’s changed

We were struggling at the bottom of the premiership then we went down and we wanted to get back and the perspective was if we can just get back to the premiership we can start to build slowly again

That perspective changed with the new owners
It’s a completely different scenario
Some of you guys think it’s still the same but it’s not a change that day

We are now the second richest premiership club
We are the biggest club in the Midlands
We still have one of the greatest players in the world in our team
Our perspective has changed

We need to start seeing ourselves as competing for a top six place
Set the bar higher not lower

Too bloody right John
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AV82EC on March 13, 2021, 12:13:01 PM
Since we came back from the enforced Covid break in January we've W4 D3 L5, classic mid-table form. As others have pointed out, we're much more resilient as a team defensively but have utterly lost our attacking verve and progressive approach from earlier in the season.

Three contributing reasons for me:

1 - The Grealish factor - much as we don't like to admit it, he lifts this team from being a lower midtable team to potentially being a team that can challenge for the European spots. Also there was a detailed stats analysis done a few weeks back on us this season which only backed this up as nearly 70% of our attacking intent was in the attacking left third.

2 - Smith and his coaching team - as others have pointed out in view of the above what are they doing about it? Sticking with the 433 despite the lack of personnel for it to be effective, continually just rotating and perming 3 from 6 in the three central midfield positions, playing clearly out of form players.

3 - Players out of form - quite clearly McGinn, Luiz and Barkley are struggling badly at the moment though McGinn and Luiz are showing signs they are starting to get back to something like some level of effectiveness.

Smith is doing OK in my view with the tools at his disposal but until the transition to a top 6 team is made then questions are bound to be asked, it comes with the territory unfortunately. That squad quality desperately needs to be improved in the summer as we're finding out, and really only then can Smith have no excuses in terms of delivering some of the expectations, up to know he's ticked every box.





 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on March 13, 2021, 12:16:38 PM
Quote from: AV82EC on March 13, 2021, 12:13:01 PM
Since we came back from the enforced Covid break in January we've W4 D3 L5, classic mid-table form. As others have pointed out, we're much more resilient as a team defensively but have utterly lost our attacking verve and progressive approach from earlier in the season.

Three contributing reasons for me:

1 - The Grealish factor - much as we don't like to admit it, he lifts this team from being a lower midtable team to potentially being a team that can challenge for the European spots. Also there was a detailed stats analysis done a few weeks back on us this season which only backed this up as nearly 70% of our attacking intent was in the attacking left third.

2 - Smith and his coaching team - as others have pointed out in view of the above what are they doing about it? Sticking with the 433 despite the lack of personnel for it to be effective, continually just rotating and perming 3 from 6 in the three central midfield positions, playing clearly out of form players.

3 - Players out of form - quite clearly McGinn, Luiz and Barkley are struggling badly at the moment though McGinn and Luiz are showing signs they are starting to get back to something like some level of effectiveness.

Smith is doing OK in my view with the tools at his disposal but until the transition to a top 6 team is made then questions are bound to be asked, it comes with the territory unfortunately. That squad quality desperately needs to be improved in the summer as we're finding out, and really only then can Smith have no excuses in terms of delivering some of the expectations, up to know he's ticked every box.

Great post, and very much agree with your points. The world and his dog can see that our wide players at the moment aren't coming up with the goods, so why continue with two of them in a 4-3-3 that is making Watkins look really isolated due to their all round poor play?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on March 13, 2021, 12:17:52 PM
Quote from: Rudy65 on March 13, 2021, 12:08:02 PM
Quote from: john e on March 13, 2021, 09:41:54 AM
The other thing to say about perspective is that it’s changed

We were struggling at the bottom of the premiership then we went down and we wanted to get back and the perspective was if we can just get back to the premiership we can start to build slowly again

That perspective changed with the new owners
It’s a completely different scenario
Some of you guys think it’s still the same but it’s not a change that day

We are now the second richest premiership club
We are the biggest club in the Midlands
We still have one of the greatest players in the world in our team
Our perspective has changed

We need to start seeing ourselves as competing for a top six place
Set the bar higher not lower

Too bloody right John
But it does not give us a Devine right to change this one season after surviving relegation. FFP has also moved the goal posts. We did what we had to after promotion and we have stepped up again this season. I really do t understand this god given right we must already be challenging the top six now.

We’re making great progress and I’m sure our new ambitions and wealthy owners will see this and have far more patience than some of our fans.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nunkin1965 on March 13, 2021, 12:18:52 PM
Quote from: Rudy65 on March 13, 2021, 12:08:02 PM
Quote from: john e on March 13, 2021, 09:41:54 AM
The other thing to say about perspective is that it’s changed

We were struggling at the bottom of the premiership then we went down and we wanted to get back and the perspective was if we can just get back to the premiership we can start to build slowly again

That perspective changed with the new owners
It’s a completely different scenario
Some of you guys think it’s still the same but it’s not a change that day

We are now the second richest premiership club
We are the biggest club in the Midlands
We still have one of the greatest players in the world in our team
Our perspective has changed

We need to start seeing ourselves as competing for a top six place
Set the bar higher not lower

Too bloody right John

Nobody is setting the bar lower.
But we're not playing FIFA people have to be patient.
The owners seem to be or Dean Smith wouldn't be in the job.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on March 13, 2021, 12:24:41 PM
I think it strikes as self entitled to be honest. Very Wolves esq. levels of petulance. Stamping your feet and shouting "don't you know who I am?" achieves nothing.

There's more to the top half of this table than us. What has the team directly above us been doing in our lost decade? Winning the European Cup and title, by signing £60m players.

What about the one above? Developing the best centre forward in Europe, competing in the Champions League, getting rid of the best pound for pound manager in Europe and replacing him with a name as big as Mourinho. Moving into a £1bn stadium that holds 61,000.

What about the team above Spurs, what have they been doing in our lost decade? Spending half a billion and attracting one of the most successful managers in Europe, making preparations to build a new ground.

And West Ham? Getting a new ground for free that is 50% larger than ours. Being able to spend £40m on flops and finally, for this season at least, reinventing Everton of 2007 vintage.

And Chelsea? Winning titles, trophies, playing in Champions League football, spending hundreds of millions.

Leicester? Sliding doors and all that, but winning the title, spending and investing heavily. Showing an avenue to others like us of what can be achieved in time.

The Manchester clubs speak for themselves.

Yes we're loaded, yes we have Grealish, yes we are Aston fuckimg Villa. But glance in the mirror, see where we have been very recently and what clubs who can say "we're fucking Chelsea" or "we're fucking Everton" too and it makes the demands seem ridiculous. It has to be earned.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nunkin1965 on March 13, 2021, 12:25:47 PM
Quote from: Risso on March 13, 2021, 11:05:50 AM
So none at all then, that's sort of what I thought.
Oh come on.
Its just round the corner though isn't it?
People are thinking it.
He's "Not a big name" so its not possible for him to be a success.
I don't see our owners having a problem at this moment in time though.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on March 13, 2021, 12:27:25 PM
Quote from: Ads on March 13, 2021, 12:24:41 PM
I think it strikes as self entitled to be honest. Very Wolves esq. levels of petulance. Stamping your feet and shouting "don't you know who I am?" achieves nothing.

There's more to the top half of this table than us. What has the team directly above us been doing in our lost decade? Winning the European Cup and title, by signing £60m players.

What about the one above? Developing the best centre forward in Europe, competing in the Champions League  getting rid of the best pound for pound manager in Eurooe and replacing him with a name as big as Mourinho. Moving into a £1bn stadium that holds 61,000.

What about the team above Spurs, what have they been doing in our lost decade? Spending half a billion and attracting one of the most successful managers in Europe, making preparations to build a new ground.

And West Ham? Getting a new ground for free that is 50% larger than ours. Being able to spend £40m on flops and finally, for this season at least, reinventing Everton of 2007 vintage.

And Chelsea? Winning titles, trophies, playing in Champions League football, spending hundreds of millions.

Leicester? Sliding doors and all that, but winning the title, spending and investing heavily. Showing an avenue to others like us of what can be achieved in time.

The Manchester clubs speak for themselves.

Yes we're loaded, yes we have Grealish, yes we are Aston fuckimg Villa. But glance in the mirror, see where we have been very recently and what clubs who can say "we're fucking Chelsea" or "we're fucking Everton" too and it makes the demands seem ridiculous. It has to be earned.
Very well put.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Exeter 77 on March 13, 2021, 12:28:39 PM
Our start the season raised expectations, possibly unrealistically, and now we have a sub-standard run the drop is more pronounced. A comparison to our exceptionally poor run at this stage last season which culminated in the surrender at Leicester shows the progress which has been made. I would rather be debating a fall away from European qualification than a drop into the relegation zone.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on March 13, 2021, 12:34:12 PM
I also think Jack is even better than we all think. He’s just an incredible player. The form he was in before Christmas he was just incredible. The chances he created and the times he broke away when we defended corners and turned them into attacks. We just looked like scoring but was often let down by our finishing. His form dipped in the new year and it’s no coincidence the players form around him has fallen off too.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AV82EC on March 13, 2021, 12:36:54 PM
Quote from: Risso on March 13, 2021, 12:16:38 PM
Quote from: AV82EC on March 13, 2021, 12:13:01 PM
Since we came back from the enforced Covid break in January we've W4 D3 L5, classic mid-table form. As others have pointed out, we're much more resilient as a team defensively but have utterly lost our attacking verve and progressive approach from earlier in the season.

Three contributing reasons for me:

1 - The Grealish factor - much as we don't like to admit it, he lifts this team from being a lower midtable team to potentially being a team that can challenge for the European spots. Also there was a detailed stats analysis done a few weeks back on us this season which only backed this up as nearly 70% of our attacking intent was in the attacking left third.

2 - Smith and his coaching team - as others have pointed out in view of the above what are they doing about it? Sticking with the 433 despite the lack of personnel for it to be effective, continually just rotating and perming 3 from 6 in the three central midfield positions, playing clearly out of form players.

3 - Players out of form - quite clearly McGinn, Luiz and Barkley are struggling badly at the moment though McGinn and Luiz are showing signs they are starting to get back to something like some level of effectiveness.

Smith is doing OK in my view with the tools at his disposal but until the transition to a top 6 team is made then questions are bound to be asked, it comes with the territory unfortunately. That squad quality desperately needs to be improved in the summer as we're finding out, and really only then can Smith have no excuses in terms of delivering some of the expectations, up to know he's ticked every box.

Great post, and very much agree with your points. The world and his dog can see that our wide players at the moment aren't coming up with the goods, so why continue with two of them in a 4-3-3 that is making Watkins look really isolated due to their all round poor play?

This is the puzzling bit for me Risso, it’s quite clear perming 2 from 3 in the attacking wide positions is not helping just as it isn’t in the 3 from 6 in the midfield positions. It suggests he maybe hasn’t quite got the confidence to change it to a diamond or a more meat and potatoes 442. However, there is a part of me that quite admires a guy who sticks to his principles like this, frustrating as it may appear to us laymen. And then I remember he’s learning just like us, some of our play earlier in the season and how improved the top 12-14 clubs in the PL are since we’ve been away.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on March 13, 2021, 12:37:23 PM
It's all very defensive on here today isn't it.

No one is unhappy with the season, no one wants the manager sacked, no one is calling for a complete overhaul, no one things the division is crap and we should be strolling to the top 6 at least. There's errors being made and improvements to make that people are rightly pointing out. That's part of football. We'd have nothing to discuss if we just said good season, can't wait until next year.

There's still 11 games to go and if we continue playing poorly and slide a bit to 12th/13th then it will have an effect on how we are viewed and the progress we might be able to make next season. It's a good step up we've made but we can't rest on our laurels, pat ourselves on the back and say ''well done, we were great in September, November and December'' when we're 3 months down the line and have hardly put in a good 90 minutes since then.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AV82EC on March 13, 2021, 12:38:07 PM
Quote from: Ads on March 13, 2021, 12:24:41 PM
I think it strikes as self entitled to be honest. Very Wolves esq. levels of petulance. Stamping your feet and shouting "don't you know who I am?" achieves nothing.

There's more to the top half of this table than us. What has the team directly above us been doing in our lost decade? Winning the European Cup and title, by signing £60m players.

What about the one above? Developing the best centre forward in Europe, competing in the Champions League, getting rid of the best pound for pound manager in Europe and replacing him with a name as big as Mourinho. Moving into a £1bn stadium that holds 61,000.

What about the team above Spurs, what have they been doing in our lost decade? Spending half a billion and attracting one of the most successful managers in Europe, making preparations to build a new ground.

And West Ham? Getting a new ground for free that is 50% larger than ours. Being able to spend £40m on flops and finally, for this season at least, reinventing Everton of 2007 vintage.

And Chelsea? Winning titles, trophies, playing in Champions League football, spending hundreds of millions.

Leicester? Sliding doors and all that, but winning the title, spending and investing heavily. Showing an avenue to others like us of what can be achieved in time.

The Manchester clubs speak for themselves.

Yes we're loaded, yes we have Grealish, yes we are Aston fuckimg Villa. But glance in the mirror, see where we have been very recently and what clubs who can say "we're fucking Chelsea" or "we're fucking Everton" too and it makes the demands seem ridiculous. It has to be earned.

Good post Ads, we sometimes forget in our little echo chamber that other clubs have ambitions, money and dreams as well.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on March 13, 2021, 12:40:27 PM
On the summer to do list;

Give the best English centre half a £100,000 a week contract.

Give England's best player a £180,000 a week contract.

Give one of Europe's best goalkeeper's a £100,000 week contract.

Sign a new centre forward and wide player in the <£35m bracket.

Move on the 3rd choice types like Trez, Nakamba, Davis etc.

Sit back and enjoy watching us earn more of a right to qualify for Europe and hope the others prior mentioned aren't quite as slick in their recruitment as we've become.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AV82EC on March 13, 2021, 12:45:12 PM
Pedantic prat alert, did you mean >£35m Ads? I'd up that to >£50m.

Also there's no reason those contracts can't be offered now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Monty on March 13, 2021, 12:47:45 PM
We are improving year on year, but it's clear that either Deano doesn't quite know how to mould the kind of precise-moving attacking unit the top of the modern game demands*, or some of the players have been made to look much, much better than they were by the best attacking player in the country. No shame in either necessarily, we'll keep on progressing I'm sure, but this run has been a bit of a wake-up call. Sheff U, Brighton, Newcastle, these are some tremendously shit teams we've failed to beat, and it's  pretty fucking worrying.

*Apologies for unforgivable slippage into Jonathan Wilson voice.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on March 13, 2021, 12:52:54 PM
I think its a combination of confidence, Covid, Jack and a stubbornness.

COVID saved us. COVID nudged us slyly in the back. But come the summer, COVID will give us an advantage. £2bn in lost revenues in the league.

Now while what our earners earn doesn't necessarily translate to "property of Aston Villa", that they have become even richer this year and that we are so insanely loaded, means we will have a spending power few outside Burnage can match.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Allan C on March 13, 2021, 12:54:57 PM
Quote from: Nunkin1965 on March 13, 2021, 12:25:47 PM
Quote from: Risso on March 13, 2021, 11:05:50 AM
So none at all then, that's sort of what I thought.
Oh come on.
Its just round the corner though isn't it?
People are thinking it.
He's "Not a big name" so its not possible for him to be a success.
I don't see our owners having a problem at this moment in time though.
Great post that
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: RamboandBruno on March 13, 2021, 01:07:54 PM
Quote from: Allan C on March 13, 2021, 12:54:57 PM
Quote from: Nunkin1965 on March 13, 2021, 12:25:47 PM
Quote from: Risso on March 13, 2021, 11:05:50 AM
So none at all then, that's sort of what I thought.
Oh come on.
Its just round the corner though isn't it?
People are thinking it.
He's "Not a big name" so its not possible for him to be a success.
I don't see our owners having a problem at this moment in time though.
Great post that

Agree, good post, every time we hit a poor run of form in the last couple of years, it’s resurfaced, some people will never deep down be satisfied that we have the lad from Great Barr rather than the man from Milan or Buenos Aires.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: N'ZMAV on March 13, 2021, 01:16:57 PM
Quote from: Monty on March 13, 2021, 12:47:45 PM
We are improving year on year, but it's clear that either Deano doesn't quite know how to mould the kind of precise-moving attacking unit the top of the modern game demands*, or some of the players have been made to look much, much better than they were by the best attacking player in the country. No shame in either necessarily, we'll keep on progressing I'm sure, but this run has been a bit of a wake-up call. Sheff U, Brighton, Newcastle, these are some tremendously shit teams we've failed to beat, and it's  pretty fucking worrying.

*Apologies for unforgivable slippage into Jonathan Wilson voice.
it's strange, some times I look at the season so far and I'm really pleased with what we've done....

We've won the three away games I was desperate for us to win: Leeds, Wolves & WBA...
But, then some of the basics in other performances and results have been toss.

If we can finish top half, it'll have been good - but something of a 'what might have been' is in mind too
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Monty on March 13, 2021, 01:36:03 PM
The problem is that when you see how well we can play, it's hard to accept how badly we sometimes do play.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on March 13, 2021, 01:53:54 PM
Quote from: Nunkin1965 on March 13, 2021, 12:25:47 PM
Quote from: Risso on March 13, 2021, 11:05:50 AM
So none at all then, that's sort of what I thought.
Oh come on.
Its just round the corner though isn't it?
People are thinking it.
He's "Not a big name" so its not possible for him to be a success.
I don't see our owners having a problem at this moment in time though.


People might be thinking it but unless you've suddenly ganed the ability to read minds, I'm not sure how you've come to that conclusion. In any case, people thinking it is a world away from a ridiculous claim that "sack the manager" posts are now so common that they're monotonous.  Unless monotonous has been been redfined to mean "non-existent."
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa for life on March 13, 2021, 02:09:05 PM
I think one criticism that can be leveled at Smith is how and why he decided to turn McGinn, once one of the best attacking midfielders in the league,  into a very average defensive midfielder.

Moving McGinn further forward could help both  him and villa find their form again. Why doesn’t he do it?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on March 13, 2021, 02:18:32 PM
Quote from: Risso on March 13, 2021, 01:53:54 PM
Quote from: Nunkin1965 on March 13, 2021, 12:25:47 PM
Quote from: Risso on March 13, 2021, 11:05:50 AM
So none at all then, that's sort of what I thought.
Oh come on.
Its just round the corner though isn't it?
People are thinking it.
He's "Not a big name" so its not possible for him to be a success.
I don't see our owners having a problem at this moment in time though.


People might be thinking it but unless you've suddenly ganed the ability to read minds, I'm not sure how you've come to that conclusion. In any case, people thinking it is a world away from a ridiculous claim that "sack the manager" posts are now so common that they're monotonous.  Unless monotonous has been been redfined to mean "non-existent."

Which isn't what I said at all.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on March 13, 2021, 02:22:46 PM
Quote from: Ads on March 13, 2021, 12:24:41 PM
I think it strikes as self entitled to be honest. Very Wolves esq. levels of petulance. Stamping your feet and shouting "don't you know who I am?" achieves nothing.

There's more to the top half of this table than us. What has the team directly above us been doing in our lost decade? Winning the European Cup and title, by signing £60m players.

What about the one above? Developing the best centre forward in Europe, competing in the Champions League, getting rid of the best pound for pound manager in Europe and replacing him with a name as big as Mourinho. Moving into a £1bn stadium that holds 61,000.

What about the team above Spurs, what have they been doing in our lost decade? Spending half a billion and attracting one of the most successful managers in Europe, making preparations to build a new ground.

And West Ham? Getting a new ground for free that is 50% larger than ours. Being able to spend £40m on flops and finally, for this season at least, reinventing Everton of 2007 vintage.

And Chelsea? Winning titles, trophies, playing in Champions League football, spending hundreds of millions.

Leicester? Sliding doors and all that, but winning the title, spending and investing heavily. Showing an avenue to others like us of what can be achieved in time.

The Manchester clubs speak for themselves.

Yes we're loaded, yes we have Grealish, yes we are Aston fuckimg Villa. But glance in the mirror, see where we have been very recently and what clubs who can say "we're fucking Chelsea" or "we're fucking Everton" too and it makes the demands seem ridiculous. It has to be earned.

Ads, I don't know whether you've changed or I have, but I can't think of a time when I've agreed more with a post. Perhaps it's just that we're not in Off Topic!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on March 13, 2021, 02:24:40 PM

What exactly did you mean by


"It's getting a bit monotonous now. We've had 2 1/2 years of almost unbroken progress yet every time we look poor in a couple of games it's sack the manager."


then?


We've looked poor in the last two games, and indeed, four of the last five, but nobody to my knowledge has actually said "sack the manager." For something to be monotonous it usually has to be repetitious.  "Every time" would certainly point to that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: JuanMartinez on March 13, 2021, 02:29:34 PM
Quote from: Ads on March 13, 2021, 12:24:41 PM
I think it strikes as self entitled to be honest. Very Wolves esq. levels of petulance. Stamping your feet and shouting "don't you know who I am?" achieves nothing.

There's more to the top half of this table than us. What has the team directly above us been doing in our lost decade? Winning the European Cup and title, by signing £60m players.

What about the one above? Developing the best centre forward in Europe, competing in the Champions League, getting rid of the best pound for pound manager in Europe and replacing him with a name as big as Mourinho. Moving into a £1bn stadium that holds 61,000.

What about the team above Spurs, what have they been doing in our lost decade? Spending half a billion and attracting one of the most successful managers in Europe, making preparations to build a new ground.

And West Ham? Getting a new ground for free that is 50% larger than ours. Being able to spend £40m on flops and finally, for this season at least, reinventing Everton of 2007 vintage.

And Chelsea? Winning titles, trophies, playing in Champions League football, spending hundreds of millions.

Leicester? Sliding doors and all that, but winning the title, spending and investing heavily. Showing an avenue to others like us of what can be achieved in time.

The Manchester clubs speak for themselves.

Yes we're loaded, yes we have Grealish, yes we are Aston fuckimg Villa. But glance in the mirror, see where we have been very recently and what clubs who can say "we're fucking Chelsea" or "we're fucking Everton" too and it makes the demands seem ridiculous. It has to be earned.

You should be the official fans delegate club and us.

Absolutely nail on head.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on March 13, 2021, 02:32:12 PM
Quote from: Risso on March 13, 2021, 02:24:40 PM

What exactly did you mean by


"It's getting a bit monotonous now. We've had 2 1/2 years of almost unbroken progress yet every time we look poor in a couple of games it's sack the manager."


then?


We've looked poor in the last two games, and indeed, four of the last five, but nobody to my knowledge has actually said "sack the manager." For something to be monotonous it usually has to be repetitious.  "Every time" would certainly point to that.

Posters have recently said the manager should be replaced in the summer. You mentioned previous high-profile sackings. There are numerous previous examples of wanting him sacked, even a Smith out thread although I can't quite remember who started it. That's what I mean by monotonous.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on March 13, 2021, 02:46:05 PM
Quote from: Ads on March 13, 2021, 12:24:41 PM
I think it strikes as self entitled to be honest. Very Wolves esq. levels of petulance. Stamping your feet and shouting "don't you know who I am?" achieves nothing.

There's more to the top half of this table than us. What has the team directly above us been doing in our lost decade? Winning the European Cup and title, by signing £60m players.

What about the one above? Developing the best centre forward in Europe, competing in the Champions League, getting rid of the best pound for pound manager in Europe and replacing him with a name as big as Mourinho. Moving into a £1bn stadium that holds 61,000.

What about the team above Spurs, what have they been doing in our lost decade? Spending half a billion and attracting one of the most successful managers in Europe, making preparations to build a new ground.

And West Ham? Getting a new ground for free that is 50% larger than ours. Being able to spend £40m on flops and finally, for this season at least, reinventing Everton of 2007 vintage.

And Chelsea? Winning titles, trophies, playing in Champions League football, spending hundreds of millions.

Leicester? Sliding doors and all that, but winning the title, spending and investing heavily. Showing an avenue to others like us of what can be achieved in time.

The Manchester clubs speak for themselves.

Yes we're loaded, yes we have Grealish, yes we are Aston fuckimg Villa. But glance in the mirror, see where we have been very recently and what clubs who can say "we're fucking Chelsea" or "we're fucking Everton" too and it makes the demands seem ridiculous. It has to be earned.
Good contextualisation - it takes time to build a top 6 squad.
Smith has does fine - it's this summer that will show whether we're 'up' for the next stage in the building programme.


I would add one point: with hindsight, I'd have pushed to bring in Benrahma rather than settle for Traore. I think for the extra dosh we'd have got someone better able to support Watkins and be a more classic winger-type.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on March 13, 2021, 02:49:11 PM
It's ironic that the last time we were in this situation, back in 2007, it was generally accepted that we were doing it the right way, with steady growth rather than throwing Manchester City-style money around.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on March 13, 2021, 03:03:03 PM
Quote from: Monty on March 13, 2021, 01:36:03 PM
The problem is that when you see how well we can play, it's hard to accept how badly we sometimes do play.

Agreed and that sometimes is becoming a nasty habit. After a great December we were robbed at Old Trafford on New Years Day, put in a decent performance against Man City but since then we've looked a completely different side. The results have generally hidden how poor the performances have become. Playing 6 games in 18 days (Man City to Arsenal away) obviously didn't help especially as we don't rotate much.

Even before Jack got injured the performances weren't great but Dean has still kept with the same formation, 4-3-3 even though it's no longer working. Einstein's attributed line: "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results" very much comes to mind. Tactically it's backs to the wall, hoof it up front for Ollie to hold up, watch it come back, repeat and hope to get a snatch and grab win. As you said, it's frustrating 'when you see how well we can play'.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tomd2103 on March 13, 2021, 03:18:20 PM
Quote from: N'ZMAV on March 13, 2021, 01:16:57 PM
Quote from: Monty on March 13, 2021, 12:47:45 PM
We are improving year on year, but it's clear that either Deano doesn't quite know how to mould the kind of precise-moving attacking unit the top of the modern game demands*, or some of the players have been made to look much, much better than they were by the best attacking player in the country. No shame in either necessarily, we'll keep on progressing I'm sure, but this run has been a bit of a wake-up call. Sheff U, Brighton, Newcastle, these are some tremendously shit teams we've failed to beat, and it's  pretty fucking worrying.

*Apologies for unforgivable slippage into Jonathan Wilson voice.
it's strange, some times I look at the season so far and I'm really pleased with what we've done....

We've won the three away games I was desperate for us to win: Leeds, Wolves & WBA...
But, then some of the basics in other performances and results have been toss.

If we can finish top half, it'll have been good - but something of a 'what might have been' is in mind too

Yep, wins against Sheffield United and last night would have seen us in 6th. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on March 13, 2021, 04:17:53 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on March 13, 2021, 02:32:12 PM
Quote from: Risso on March 13, 2021, 02:24:40 PM

What exactly did you mean by


"It's getting a bit monotonous now. We've had 2 1/2 years of almost unbroken progress yet every time we look poor in a couple of games it's sack the manager."


then?


We've looked poor in the last two games, and indeed, four of the last five, but nobody to my knowledge has actually said "sack the manager." For something to be monotonous it usually has to be repetitious.  "Every time" would certainly point to that.

Posters have recently said the manager should be replaced in the summer. You mentioned previous high-profile sackings. There are numerous previous examples of wanting him sacked, even a Smith out thread although I can't quite remember who started it. That's what I mean by monotonous.


Ah so now you're having to go back to last season before the coronavirus shut down to back up your "every time" non-argument? When we were genuinely atrocious, and according to most journalists when Smith only stayed in a job because the Chelsea game was cancelled. So monotonous now means "not mentioned at all recently, but was nearly 18 months ago." Gotcha.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on March 13, 2021, 04:25:29 PM
Quote from: Risso on March 13, 2021, 04:17:53 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on March 13, 2021, 02:32:12 PM
Quote from: Risso on March 13, 2021, 02:24:40 PM

What exactly did you mean by


"It's getting a bit monotonous now. We've had 2 1/2 years of almost unbroken progress yet every time we look poor in a couple of games it's sack the manager."


then?


We've looked poor in the last two games, and indeed, four of the last five, but nobody to my knowledge has actually said "sack the manager." For something to be monotonous it usually has to be repetitious.  "Every time" would certainly point to that.

Posters have recently said the manager should be replaced in the summer. You mentioned previous high-profile sackings. There are numerous previous examples of wanting him sacked, even a Smith out thread although I can't quite remember who started it. That's what I mean by monotonous.


Ah so now you're having to go back to last season before the coronavirus shut down to back up your "every time" non-argument? When we were genuinely atrocious, and according to most journalists when Smith only stayed in a job because the Chelsea game was cancelled. So monotonous now means "not mentioned at all recently, but was nearly 18 months ago." Gotcha.

Funnily enough I am going back to last season because guess what? Last season was part of the timeframe I was talking about, as was the season before that, last week and last night. Not "nearly 18 months ago" at all.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on March 13, 2021, 04:52:46 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on March 13, 2021, 03:03:03 PM
Even before Jack got injured the performances weren't great but Dean has still kept with the same formation, 4-3-3 even though it's no longer working. Einstein's attributed line: "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results" very much comes to mind. Tactically it's backs to the wall, hoof it up front for Ollie to hold up, watch it come back, repeat and hope to get a snatch and grab win. As you said, it's frustrating 'when you see how well we can play'.
Yes indeed. About mid Jan other teams had worked us out. They knew how to stop Jack and rest is easy. Smith and his team did nothing to change that situation or develop a strategy and tactics to take advantage of opposition going heavy on Jack.
The Jack injury is a laughable episode (again). He has missed 5 matches now when we were initially told  "back next week". So the question is did Smith & Co knew this or were they sitting on their hands totally devoid of medical opinion and hoping that he will return for the next match and absolutely failed to devise a better system to play without him? Either way there is culpability.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: N'ZMAV on March 13, 2021, 04:59:03 PM
if we don't finish top-half, I'll be disappointed. I've loved the majority of the season and been more than surprised at times. I'll be disappointed because after the start we had, and how we've picked up some very impressive wins - we really should have built on it and not to have would be poor. I like Dean Smith, he's met every objective so far.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: West Derby Villan on March 13, 2021, 05:12:18 PM
Quote from: Ads on March 13, 2021, 12:24:41 PM
I think it strikes as self entitled to be honest. Very Wolves esq. levels of petulance. Stamping your feet and shouting "don't you know who I am?" achieves nothing.

There's more to the top half of this table than us. What has the team directly above us been doing in our lost decade? Winning the European Cup and title, by signing £60m players.

What about the one above? Developing the best centre forward in Europe, competing in the Champions League, getting rid of the best pound for pound manager in Europe and replacing him with a name as big as Mourinho. Moving into a £1bn stadium that holds 61,000.

What about the team above Spurs, what have they been doing in our lost decade? Spending half a billion and attracting one of the most successful managers in Europe, making preparations to build a new ground.

And West Ham? Getting a new ground for free that is 50% larger than ours. Being able to spend £40m on flops and finally, for this season at least, reinventing Everton of 2007 vintage.

And Chelsea? Winning titles, trophies, playing in Champions League football, spending hundreds of millions.

Leicester? Sliding doors and all that, but winning the title, spending and investing heavily. Showing an avenue to others like us of what can be achieved in time.

The Manchester clubs speak for themselves.

Yes we're loaded, yes we have Grealish, yes we are Aston fuckimg Villa. But glance in the mirror, see where we have been very recently and what clubs who can say "we're fucking Chelsea" or "we're fucking Everton" too and it makes the demands seem ridiculous. It has to be earned.

Spot on Ads, realism and perspective in spades mate
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on March 13, 2021, 05:12:57 PM
Last season I was very much in the fire Dean Smith camp. But now even with the recent run of results I’m just not. Not just because we are now doing it without Jack but because the progression we have made means he gets a chance to see if he can build on this season. It is alarming to a point how reliant we are on Jack but it’s hardly shocking is it? What club isn’t reliant on their best player. We don’t have the level of talent at the club to make up the gap in his absence. If Man City lose De Bruyne they have several top players to keep on winning. We simply don’t have that. And it’s also one of the reasons I advocated cashing in on Jack because it will force us to build an all round better team with the funds and anything extra we have. Obviously better if we can build around him.

Dean Smith doesn’t need us to fire him. He knows that will happen on its own the more we spend. He will get at minimum the next window to improve us again and if we do get better he will deserve to keep his job.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on March 13, 2021, 05:21:55 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on March 13, 2021, 05:12:57 PM
Last season I was very much in the fire Dean Smith camp. But now even with the recent run of results I’m just not. Not just because we are now doing it without Jack but because the progression we have made means he gets a chance to see if he can build on this season. It is alarming to a point how reliant we are on Jack but it’s hardly shocking is it? What club isn’t reliant on their best player. We don’t have the level of talent at the club to make up the gap in his absence. If Man City love De Bruyne they have several top players to keep on winning. We simply don’t have that. And it’s also one of the reasons I advocated cashing in on Jack because it will force us to build an all round better team with the funds and anything extra we have. Obviously better if we can build around him.

Dean Smith doesn’t need us to fire him. He knows that will happen on its own the more we spend. He will get at minimum the next window to improve us again and if we do get better he will deserve to keep his job.

That's pretty well where I am. I think he'll get next season, unless we have an absolutely terrible run in and lose 9 games or something stupid like that, which isn't likely.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on March 13, 2021, 05:33:17 PM
Quote from: villa for life on March 13, 2021, 02:09:05 PM
I think one criticism that can be leveled at Smith is how and why he decided to turn McGinn, once one of the best attacking midfielders in the league,  into a very average defensive midfielder.

Moving McGinn further forward could help both  him and villa find their form again. Why doesn’t he do it?

He has been playing further forward recently to be fair but despite his best efforts it's not happening for him. I'm not sure McGinn was ever remotely close to being one of the best attacking midfielders in the division. He got a good start last season for sure, got injured but was very average on his return.

If we could free him up a bit to stay higher up the pitch, we might see a return to form. I'm sick of seeing the likes of Trez, Traore and AEG stinking out our right wing, maybe try McGinn over there with Cash.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on March 13, 2021, 05:37:39 PM
It's one goal in nearly 50 games for McGinn now, and apart from some wildly out of control Tonev specials, he doesn't even seem to get any shots off.  Maybe with the wide players so badly out of form we could try him at the tip of or on the right of a diamond?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on March 13, 2021, 05:42:05 PM
He hit one last night too well, very powerful but right at the keeper.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Neil Hawkes on March 13, 2021, 05:50:42 PM
QUOTE
Dean Smith doesn’t need us to fire him. He knows that will happen on its own the more we spend. He will get at minimum the next window to improve us again and if we do get better he will deserve to keep his job.
UNQUOTE

I take a little umbrage at this comment.
Since he has come in we have continually progressed.
Promoted first year, a year ahead of schedule, as admitted by our CEO.
We where down and out last season, he took a while but addressed that & kept us up; first ever year managing in the top flight.
Second ever season managing in the top flight and we have gone beyond, (so far), expectations; top ten would be a marvellous achievement.
On course for the most clean sheets since when?
So what exactly does everyone find wrong with him?
AND to put it bluntly - fuck getting a big name in, just because we can; how does anyone know exactly what he is capable of, after continual improvement year after year - why does anyone assume he can not get better the longer he stays in charge? (As he has already proved he can continually improve).
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on March 13, 2021, 05:55:26 PM
Quote from: Neil Hawkes on March 13, 2021, 05:50:42 PM
QUOTE
Dean Smith doesn’t need us to fire him. He knows that will happen on its own the more we spend. He will get at minimum the next window to improve us again and if we do get better he will deserve to keep his job.
UNQUOTE

I take a little umbrage at this comment.
Since he has come in we have continually progressed.
Promoted first year, a year ahead of schedule, as admitted by our CEO.
We where down and out last season, he took a while but addressed that & kept us up; first ever year managing in the top flight.
Second ever season managing in the top flight and we have gone beyond, (so far), expectations; top ten would be a marvellous achievement.
On course for the most clean sheets since when?
So what exactly does everyone find wrong with him?
AND to put it bluntly - fuck getting a big name in, just because we can; how does anyone know exactly what he is capable of, after continual improvement year after year - why does anyone assume he can not get better the longer he stays in charge? (As he has already proved he can continually improve).


Hear hear!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OCD on March 13, 2021, 06:00:30 PM
For those calling for his head, which I find bizarre, would you like us to be one of those clubs that changes their manager every 1-2 years like Chelsea? Because that's what changing manager now or in the summer would signal. I would rather gradual and continual progress which means continuity and backing.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: West Derby Villan on March 13, 2021, 06:07:46 PM
Quote from: Neil Hawkes on March 13, 2021, 05:50:42 PM
QUOTE
Dean Smith doesn’t need us to fire him. He knows that will happen on its own the more we spend. He will get at minimum the next window to improve us again and if we do get better he will deserve to keep his job.
UNQUOTE

I take a little umbrage at this comment.
Since he has come in we have continually progressed.
Promoted first year, a year ahead of schedule, as admitted by our CEO.
We where down and out last season, he took a while but addressed that & kept us up; first ever year managing in the top flight.
Second ever season managing in the top flight and we have gone beyond, (so far), expectations; top ten would be a marvellous achievement.
On course for the most clean sheets since when?
So what exactly does everyone find wrong with him?
AND to put it bluntly - fuck getting a big name in, just because we can; how does anyone know exactly what he is capable of, after continual improvement year after year - why does anyone assume he can not get better the longer he stays in charge? (As he has already proved he can continually improve).

Totally agree Neil
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on March 13, 2021, 06:20:09 PM
Quote from: Neil Hawkes on March 13, 2021, 05:50:42 PM
QUOTE
Dean Smith doesn’t need us to fire him. He knows that will happen on its own the more we spend. He will get at minimum the next window to improve us again and if we do get better he will deserve to keep his job.
UNQUOTE

I take a little umbrage at this comment.
Since he has come in we have continually progressed.
Promoted first year, a year ahead of schedule, as admitted by our CEO.
We where down and out last season, he took a while but addressed that & kept us up; first ever year managing in the top flight.
Second ever season managing in the top flight and we have gone beyond, (so far), expectations; top ten would be a marvellous achievement.
On course for the most clean sheets since when?
So what exactly does everyone find wrong with him?
AND to put it bluntly - fuck getting a big name in, just because we can; how does anyone know exactly what he is capable of, after continual improvement year after year - why does anyone assume he can not get better the longer he stays in charge? (As he has already proved he can continually improve).

The stats would suggest the fortunes of the team under Smith are wholly dependent on the fitness of Jack Grealish. We were useless in the championship without him and despite all the investment since that continues to the present day.

I doubt there is a single poster on the site that doesn't want Deano to succeed. But like any coach his record is open to be critiqued. It wasn't too long ago (though it feels like forever pre-covid) that the board appeared to be on the verge of giving him the boot. If this season continues to peter out I don't think our board will let sentiment get in the way of a hard-nosed business decision.

In saying all that, I certainly hope it won't and Grealish will come back and inspire some football worth watching.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on March 13, 2021, 06:26:20 PM
Quote from: OCD on March 13, 2021, 06:00:30 PM
For those calling for his head

Pssst. Nobody is.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: RamboandBruno on March 13, 2021, 06:27:36 PM
Quote from: Neil Hawkes on March 13, 2021, 05:50:42 PM
QUOTE
Dean Smith doesn’t need us to fire him. He knows that will happen on its own the more we spend. He will get at minimum the next window to improve us again and if we do get better he will deserve to keep his job.
UNQUOTE

I take a little umbrage at this comment.
Since he has come in we have continually progressed.
Promoted first year, a year ahead of schedule, as admitted by our CEO.
We where down and out last season, he took a while but addressed that & kept us up; first ever year managing in the top flight.
Second ever season managing in the top flight and we have gone beyond, (so far), expectations; top ten would be a marvellous achievement.
On course for the most clean sheets since when?
So what exactly does everyone find wrong with him?
AND to put it bluntly - fuck getting a big name in, just because we can; how does anyone know exactly what he is capable of, after continual improvement year after year - why does anyone assume he can not get better the longer he stays in charge? (As he has already proved he can continually improve).

Well said
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: RamboandBruno on March 13, 2021, 06:32:14 PM
Quote from: brontebilly on March 13, 2021, 06:20:09 PM
Quote from: Neil Hawkes on March 13, 2021, 05:50:42 PM
QUOTE
Dean Smith doesn’t need us to fire him. He knows that will happen on its own the more we spend. He will get at minimum the next window to improve us again and if we do get better he will deserve to keep his job.
UNQUOTE

I take a little umbrage at this comment.
Since he has come in we have continually progressed.
Promoted first year, a year ahead of schedule, as admitted by our CEO.
We where down and out last season, he took a while but addressed that & kept us up; first ever year managing in the top flight.
Second ever season managing in the top flight and we have gone beyond, (so far), expectations; top ten would be a marvellous achievement.
On course for the most clean sheets since when?
So what exactly does everyone find wrong with him?
AND to put it bluntly - fuck getting a big name in, just because we can; how does anyone know exactly what he is capable of, after continual improvement year after year - why does anyone assume he can not get better the longer he stays in charge? (As he has already proved he can continually improve).

The stats would suggest the fortunes of the team under Smith are wholly dependent on the fitness of Jack Grealish. We were useless in the championship without him and despite all the investment since that continues to the present day.

I doubt there is a single poster on the site that doesn't want Deano to succeed. But like any coach his record is open to be critiqued. It wasn't too long ago (though it feels like forever pre-covid) that the board appeared to be on the verge of giving him the boot. If this season continues to peter out I don't think our board will let sentiment get in the way of a hard-nosed business decision.

In saying all that, I certainly hope it won't and Grealish will come back and inspire some football worth watching.

I’ve made a similar point earlier, but In the same timeframe, how have Spurs done without Kane, Leicester without Vardy. I honestly don’t know the answer to this, but would be interesting to compare.

I’ve always felt smith is on a bit of a hiding to nothing in some quarters, when we’ve done well it’s solely down to jack, when we’re not doing well, it’s because smiths not good enough.
Does he get any credit for us having the 3rd best defense in the league and maybe finishing the season with one of the most clean sheets we’ve ever had, or is that just down to Martinez?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on March 13, 2021, 06:36:11 PM
Great point.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on March 13, 2021, 06:44:37 PM
Quote from: RamboandBruno on March 13, 2021, 06:32:14 PM

Does he get any credit for us having the 3rd best defense in the league and maybe finishing the season with one of the most clean sheets we’ve ever had, or is that just down to Martinez?

Of course he does.  All good teams are built on the bedrock of a stable defence, and we certainly have that now. And in Martinez we probably made the transfer of this or any other season. But that doesn't excuse the dire football of late. Nobody is calling for his head, but the way certain people are (over)reacting to criticism and discussion of what has been a really disappointing recent period, you'd think people were marching on VP with pitchforks and burning torches.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 13, 2021, 06:56:34 PM
Some people perceive criticism of the manager as an attack on the club, some support the club and consider the manager fair game. Bruce had lots of defenders even though lots were calling him out.It is more understandable regarding Smith he is Villa but there again we spend plenty of time having a go at each other on here.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on March 13, 2021, 07:35:41 PM
Quote from: RamboandBruno on March 13, 2021, 06:32:14 PM
Quote from: brontebilly on March 13, 2021, 06:20:09 PM
Quote from: Neil Hawkes on March 13, 2021, 05:50:42 PM
QUOTE
Dean Smith doesn’t need us to fire him. He knows that will happen on its own the more we spend. He will get at minimum the next window to improve us again and if we do get better he will deserve to keep his job.
UNQUOTE

I take a little umbrage at this comment.
Since he has come in we have continually progressed.
Promoted first year, a year ahead of schedule, as admitted by our CEO.
We where down and out last season, he took a while but addressed that & kept us up; first ever year managing in the top flight.
Second ever season managing in the top flight and we have gone beyond, (so far), expectations; top ten would be a marvellous achievement.
On course for the most clean sheets since when?
So what exactly does everyone find wrong with him?
AND to put it bluntly - fuck getting a big name in, just because we can; how does anyone know exactly what he is capable of, after continual improvement year after year - why does anyone assume he can not get better the longer he stays in charge? (As he has already proved he can continually improve).

The stats would suggest the fortunes of the team under Smith are wholly dependent on the fitness of Jack Grealish. We were useless in the championship without him and despite all the investment since that continues to the present day.

I doubt there is a single poster on the site that doesn't want Deano to succeed. But like any coach his record is open to be critiqued. It wasn't too long ago (though it feels like forever pre-covid) that the board appeared to be on the verge of giving him the boot. If this season continues to peter out I don't think our board will let sentiment get in the way of a hard-nosed business decision.

In saying all that, I certainly hope it won't and Grealish will come back and inspire some football worth watching.

I’ve made a similar point earlier, but In the same timeframe, how have Spurs done without Kane, Leicester without Vardy. I honestly don’t know the answer to this, but would be interesting to compare.

I’ve always felt smith is on a bit of a hiding to nothing in some quarters, when we’ve done well it’s solely down to jack, when we’re not doing well, it’s because smiths not good enough.
Does he get any credit for us having the 3rd best defense in the league and maybe finishing the season with one of the most clean sheets we’ve ever had, or is that just down to Martinez?

Smith deserves a lot of credit for the rate of improvement in Konsa and Targett this season. Their transformation has been remarkable. Martinez has been a great signing but defensively as a unit we are miles better.

But the football we have been trying to play for weeks now has been dreadful. Put simply, we don't seem to have a clue what to do if Jack isn't on the pitch. The alarm bells for me were ringing that night in Southampton where our sole tactic seemed to be to boot the ball in his general direction, the rest of the midfield contributed nothing.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ketzster on March 13, 2021, 07:37:20 PM
Smith deserved a lot of praise for how we were playing until the second half at Burnley. But since then it’s another period of sustained struggle. I do agree with the people saying about Grealish, because 4 wins in 24 games when Smith has been in charge without Grealish really is extremely poor. And that’s not just been against Premier League teams as you know. In those 24 games are teams like Wigan and Reading. The problem is it’s not just the Grealish thing, it’s the lack of points that we get when we go behind in games. Putting the two together does highlight the lack of tactical flexibility and the ability to think differently. As Risso quite rightly said, once we start badly in games you know it will continue like that because nothing ever changes during a game. On the other hand we’ve seen what happens when the 4-3-3 works as well.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on March 13, 2021, 07:37:22 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on March 13, 2021, 06:56:34 PM
Some people perceive criticism of the manager as an attack on the club, some support the club and consider the manager fair game. Bruce had lots of defenders even though lots were calling him out.It is more understandable regarding Smith he is Villa but there again we spend plenty of time having a go at each other on here.



Smith is deserving of support, Bruce was not.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: JuanMartinez on March 13, 2021, 07:37:54 PM
That night at Soton where we won.

Unreal.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Neil Hawkes on March 13, 2021, 08:22:03 PM
So reading between the lines, we all think he is good, but he is not perfect.
Some want a (supposedly) better manager.
Most want to see if, in time, he can be the better manager that the others seem to want.

Constructive criticism is always beneficial, provided there is a proposed solution, criticism "just because someone else can do better, &/or something else will be better, but I don't know who or what will be better" is just mild ranting, (in my opinion).

I love this forum (and that is not sarcasm), I really do. Brightens my day no matter what sort of work or personal crap has been dealt out.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 14, 2021, 07:52:58 AM
I still think that the midfield is a problem. We do not have a natural anchor. so we are asking Luiz and SJM to compensate. Nakamba is the nearest but his limitations with the ball is probably why Smith does not pick him except for injuries.
Our limitations are masked when Jack plays because the opposition are  having to accommodate  him.
Take Jack out, it evens it up and our 3 are found wanting. The structure does not look right and add in the limitations of our wide players and you get the performances we have been seeing recently.
Smith needs to come up with a plan B instead of just shuffling the 3 in the middle and the 2 out wide.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: London Villan on March 14, 2021, 08:14:39 AM
The bigger question is how Dean moves us forward. There are two scenarios for next season - #1 with Jack #2 no Jack.
If Jack is here next season Dean has to build the team around him.

Only looking at #1 here...
4231 = Jack as the 10, but we need 1 quality holding midfielder to play alongside SJM, Dougie or Sanson. 

We need at least two forwards then - Bert quality or better replacing Davis, AEG and Trez.

4 players £100m.

Option #2 doesn't bare thinking about and will result in +£200m spending and comes with all sorts fo risks for any manager.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on March 14, 2021, 08:32:26 AM
To be fair to Dean he has tried to do something about our over reliance on Jack, he got the coup of the Barkley loan, one we were all pretty much happy with, it hasn’t worked out
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rigadon on March 14, 2021, 08:36:16 AM
What are we aiming for next year? More consolidation or winning stuff?  If the latter we need to bring in 3 or 4 players who would improve any top 6 teams first 11.  With that kind of squad, any decent manager (Smith included) would have a great chance to make some history of the positive kind!!

If we’re not ‘going for it’ now, then when?

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: RamboandBruno on March 14, 2021, 08:46:21 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on March 14, 2021, 07:52:58 AM
I still think that the midfield is a problem. We do not have a natural anchor. so we are asking Luiz and SJM to compensate. Nakamba is the nearest but his limitations with the ball is probably why Smith does not pick him except for injuries.
Our limitations are masked when Jack plays because the opposition are  having to accommodate  him.
Take Jack out, it evens it up and our 3 are found wanting. The structure does not look right and add in the limitations of our wide players and you get the performances we have been seeing recently.
Smith needs to come up with a plan B instead of just shuffling the 3 in the middle and the 2 out wide.

This is a fair summary. A midfield enforcer, at least one wide man and a forward the priorities in the summer I would of thought.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on March 14, 2021, 08:55:45 AM
Quote from: Rigadon on March 14, 2021, 08:36:16 AM
What are we aiming for next year? More consolidation or winning stuff?  If the latter we need to bring in 3 or 4 players who would improve any top 6 teams first 11.  With that kind of squad, any decent manager (Smith included) would have a great chance to make some history of the positive kind!!

If we’re not ‘going for it’ now, then when?



More consolidation. Top half with an eye on an outside chance of Europe somehow and gaps in the squad being filled. Our best players being given contract extensions where needed.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: algy on March 14, 2021, 08:56:20 AM
Quote from: PeterWithe on March 14, 2021, 08:32:26 AM
To be fair to Dean he has tried to do something about our over reliance on Jack, he got the coup of the Barkley loan, one we were all pretty much happy with, it hasn’t worked out
That's the thing for me, it's clear Dean understood the need for another creative outlet alongside Grealish, and for the first few games in Ross Barkley it looked like he'd found the answer. I also think it's a bit harsh saying we're over-reliance on Grealish. As others have said, he'd be the main man for pretty much any club in the world.

Personally I think we're a bit low on confidence at the moment, and the way Dean's sides set up it's quite reliant on the players in it having bags of self-belief and a good work ethic. Which is perhaps why his teams are a bit streaky.

I just look at it that we're improving season on season, and it's not worth getting worked up about good & bad runs of form because that's kind of what I expect to happen with his sides. I'm fine with the streaky nature because I think, as the squad strengthens, the highs will be higher and the lows won't be as deep.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Allan C on March 14, 2021, 09:17:05 AM
Quote from: London Villan on March 14, 2021, 08:14:39 AM
The bigger question is how Dean moves us forward. There are two scenarios for next season - #1 with Jack #2 no Jack.
If Jack is here next season Dean has to build the team around him.

Only looking at #1 here...
4231 = Jack as the 10, but we need 1 quality holding midfielder to play alongside SJM, Dougie or Sanson. 

We need at least two forwards then - Bert quality or better replacing Davis, AEG and Trez.

4 players £100m.

Option #2 doesn't bare thinking about and will result in +£200m spending and comes with all sorts fo risks for any manager.
I think that is the plan sold to Grealish. A team built around him that will eventually be challenging for the highest prizes in the game. This far, that is exactly what is happening. It wasn’t going to overnight, rather two seasons I would bet at the least. We are improving but still several players short (including squad players). Smith so far as proven up to the job
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on March 14, 2021, 09:28:52 AM
Quote from: algy on March 14, 2021, 08:56:20 AM
I just look at it that we're improving season on season, and it's not worth getting worked up about good & bad runs of form because that's kind of what I expect to happen with his sides. I'm fine with the streaky nature because I think, as the squad strengthens, the highs will be higher and the lows won't be as deep.

I am finding it easier to live with the 'lows' being conceding a shit late equaliser and yet still being able to look at the top half of the table to find our name, rather than getting tonked by 4 yet again.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: RamboandBruno on March 14, 2021, 09:37:52 AM
Also, despite going through our worst run of the season for the last 6-7 weeks, we are 5 points behind 6th placed Everton with a game in hand and we have to play them twice, not disastrous by end stretch of the imagination. Hopefully having Grealish and Cash back will feel like new signings relatively and we can end the season well.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Neil Hawkes on March 14, 2021, 09:51:08 AM
Quote from: RamboandBruno on March 14, 2021, 09:37:52 AM
Also, despite going through our worst run of the season for the last 6-7 weeks, we are 5 points behind 6th placed Everton with a game in hand and we have to play them twice, not disastrous by end stretch of the imagination. Hopefully having Grealish and Cash back will feel like new signings relatively and we can end the season well.
Agree with this and I believe Matty Cash is just as important to the first team as Jack. I think we would have twice as many points if he had been playing in these games. This would also be the case if we lost Targett, Mings or (heaven forbid) Konsa for any length of time.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 14, 2021, 10:04:11 AM
Quote from: aj2k77 on March 14, 2021, 08:55:45 AM
Quote from: Rigadon on March 14, 2021, 08:36:16 AM
What are we aiming for next year? More consolidation or winning stuff?  If the latter we need to bring in 3 or 4 players who would improve any top 6 teams first 11.  With that kind of squad, any decent manager (Smith included) would have a great chance to make some history of the positive kind!!

If we’re not ‘going for it’ now, then when?



More consolidation. Top half with an eye on an outside chance of Europe somehow and gaps in the squad being filled. Our best players being given contract extensions where needed.
You think Jack  Konsa Mings are hanging around for that?
If Jack goes then we will struggle to keep the best of this team together, lots of money coming in but at best mid table mediocrity for ever.
I think next season is make or break, as Riigadon says if not now when.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on March 14, 2021, 10:14:47 AM
I think next season we aim to have a more consistent crack st the top 6.

2 quality players in attack to complement and excellent defence. Sanson nice and settled and we aim for more consistency.

Oh and win the FA Cup.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on March 14, 2021, 10:19:31 AM
Quote from: algy on March 14, 2021, 08:56:20 AM
Quote from: PeterWithe on March 14, 2021, 08:32:26 AM
To be fair to Dean he has tried to do something about our over reliance on Jack, he got the coup of the Barkley loan, one we were all pretty much happy with, it hasn’t worked out
That's the thing for me, it's clear Dean understood the need for another creative outlet alongside Grealish, and for the first few games in Ross Barkley it looked like he'd found the answer. I also think it's a bit harsh saying we're over-reliance on Grealish. As others have said, he'd be the main man for pretty much any club in the world.

Personally I think we're a bit low on confidence at the moment, and the way Dean's sides set up it's quite reliant on the players in it having bags of self-belief and a good work ethic. Which is perhaps why his teams are a bit streaky.

I just look at it that we're improving season on season, and it's not worth getting worked up about good & bad runs of form because that's kind of what I expect to happen with his sides. I'm fine with the streaky nature because I think, as the squad strengthens, the highs will be higher and the lows won't be as deep.
Good summary.
At the moment, in addition to missing JG, we have tiredness in the squad (partly, perhaps, because Smith does not trust that his extended squad can cover for his first choice 11; partly, perhaps, the ongoing impact of the CV-19 weeks). We also have individual decision-making (Friday night saw Watkins and AEG trying to run the ball out of defence in the final 5 minutes, rather than hoofing it into the far corners). And, we have players perhaps being played out of position  - McGinn, Luiz perhaps.
We're a team in transition.
This summer is massive - both in terms of incomings and in terms of improving the players we have.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on March 14, 2021, 11:03:18 AM
just as importantly we have to have the courage to try and move a few on. Niether AEG or Trez arew good enough really. Traore is worth another season or two and has hasd a much morepositive effect on us than Benrahma has at West Ham for similar money.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on March 14, 2021, 11:14:19 AM
We have to address the poor physicality in the centre of the park if Grealish is to play the number 10 role.  Even with Jack playing left forward, we have to address the fact that we are vulnerable in the middle of the park, fortunately we have a quality defence who bail us out a lot.  People may say that it didn't seem to matter too much when we were brilliant at the beginning of the season but over the whole course of the season teams get to grips with our way of playing.  We concede too many shots at our own goals.  Douglas just isn't that man. I also think this is one of the reasons Barkley hasn't worked out as he's only ever any good we were are on the front foot.  He's completely anonymous otherwise.  If Brighton go down, I'd like to get Bissouma. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ROBBO on March 14, 2021, 11:23:37 AM
Agree about the midfield, a weakened Newcastle bossed us at times, Jack will be asking about incomings you can bet on it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TheTimVilla on March 15, 2021, 07:21:31 AM
Dean has created a great nucleus, but he seems to make the same mistakes every week. Does he know he can make a double sub in one go? Why wait 10 minutes to see if the first midfielder swap has changed anything (invariably not) before he makes his second? Also, we are so predictable. It would be great if he could try some different systems. We won't get relegated and almost certainly won't qualify for Europe so he should remove the following from the matchday squad - Elmo, Engels, Taylor, Davis, Trez, AEG, etc. He's already started, with Lansbury, Conor, etc so it would be great to give some time to the U23s. When Wesley is fit, try Watkins cutting in from the left, give Grealish a free role, perm any 2 from Luiz, Nakamba, SJM, Ramsey in defensive midfield, etc. Find a role for Sanson. Maybe identify a corner taker. In the last couple of months, we have generally been outplayed by inferior teams. What bugs me is that Smith doesn't seem to have the capacity to adapt to this during games. Yet I vividly recall Brentford turning us over 3-0 at their place due to his ability to change tactics on the hoof. Each window, we have signed a better standard of player and I am sure we will see the same in the summer. Next season could be great but we need to start preparing for it now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on March 15, 2021, 08:47:39 AM
Quote from: Risso on March 13, 2021, 06:26:20 PM
Quote from: OCD on March 13, 2021, 06:00:30 PM
For those calling for his head

Pssst. Nobody is.

There are a number who seem to be questioning whether Smith is the right man for the job though. And others suggesting he's inept and out of his depth.

We're 9th. Ahead of Arsenal, 2 points and a game on hand behind last season's runaway champions and 4 points and a game in hand behind Spuds.

It's massive progress in such a short space of time. Smith is the best opportunity and breath of fresh air this club has had in decades. He'll get things wrong, and the players will too, they know when it's not good enough and are honest about it. They learn too.

Every big name manager started somewhere. Why not grow our own?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on March 15, 2021, 09:09:09 AM
Quote from: Drummond on March 15, 2021, 08:47:39 AM
Quote from: Risso on March 13, 2021, 06:26:20 PM
Quote from: OCD on March 13, 2021, 06:00:30 PM
For those calling for his head

Pssst. Nobody is.

There are a number who seem to be questioning whether Smith is the right man for the job though. And others suggesting he's inept and out of his depth.

We're 9th. Ahead of Arsenal, 2 points and a game on hand behind last season's runaway champions and 4 points and a game in hand behind Spuds.

It's massive progress in such a short space of time. Smith is the best opportunity and breath of fresh air this club has had in decades. He'll get things wrong, and the players will too, they know when it's not good enough and are honest about it. They learn too.

Every big name manager started somewhere. Why not grow our own?

No, the way forward is to change manager at the first hint of trouble, or when he does/doesn't make the sub I think he should.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Duncan Shaw on March 15, 2021, 09:21:40 AM
Quote from: Drummond on March 15, 2021, 08:47:39 AM
Quote from: Risso on March 13, 2021, 06:26:20 PM
Quote from: OCD on March 13, 2021, 06:00:30 PM
For those calling for his head

Pssst. Nobody is.

There are a number who seem to be questioning whether Smith is the right man for the job though. And others suggesting he's inept and out of his depth.

We're 9th. Ahead of Arsenal, 2 points and a game on hand behind last season's runaway champions and 4 points and a game in hand behind Spuds.

It's massive progress in such a short space of time. Smith is the best opportunity and breath of fresh air this club has had in decades. He'll get things wrong, and the players will too, they know when it's not good enough and are honest about it. They learn too.

Every big name manager started somewhere. Why not grow our own?

Clapping hands Emoji..........
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: algy on March 15, 2021, 10:03:32 AM
Quote from: Drummond on March 15, 2021, 08:47:39 AM
Quote from: Risso on March 13, 2021, 06:26:20 PM
Quote from: OCD on March 13, 2021, 06:00:30 PM
For those calling for his head

Pssst. Nobody is.

There are a number who seem to be questioning whether Smith is the right man for the job though. And others suggesting he's inept and out of his depth.

We're 9th. Ahead of Arsenal, 2 points and a game on hand behind last season's runaway champions and 4 points and a game in hand behind Spuds.

It's massive progress in such a short space of time. Smith is the best opportunity and breath of fresh air this club has had in decades. He'll get things wrong, and the players will too, they know when it's not good enough and are honest about it. They learn too.

Every big name manager started somewhere. Why not grow our own?
I'd also add that, with the exception of Neil Taylor & Elmo, this is the first time in ages where you look at our squad and think that we'd get pretty much what we paid (or more) for most of the players who're maybe under consideration for being moved on this summer.  Conor, AEG, Trez, Marv, ... you'd expect to get something like what we paid for each of those.  Rather than having players like Fat Ross or Lansbury who we end up having to pay other people to have them.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on March 15, 2021, 10:08:01 AM
Really good point.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kipeye on March 15, 2021, 10:15:08 AM
I certainly don't want to go back to 'Honest lads', We go again' and all the other crap we have had to put up with for decades. I am sure there are City supporters calling for Pep's head. It happens everywhere. Sadly, all we do by mentioning them is give the false impression it is a popular opinion.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on March 15, 2021, 10:19:42 AM
Quote from: kipeye on March 15, 2021, 10:15:08 AM
I certainly don't want to go back to 'Honest lads', We go again' and all the other crap we have had to put up with for decades. I am sure there are City supporters calling for Pep's head. It happens everywhere. Sadly, all we do by mentioning them is give the false impression it is a popular opinion.

I thought Guardiola's comments about Wilder were interesting the other day. "If he would be here, he would fight to be champion. If I was in Sheffield maybe I'd fight not to be relegated."

I'm sure he'd be thinking similar of us as to where we are, though we're overachieving I think.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 15, 2021, 10:25:06 AM
Quote from: john e on March 13, 2021, 06:55:28 AM
Quote from: Steve67 on March 13, 2021, 04:38:23 AM
We are still very much a team in the making and poor runs of form are quite often a sign of this. I have no doubts that the team will continue to move forward with a couple of positive purchases in the summer and we will steadily build over the next few years. Whilst it’s frustrating seeing performances like this, we are safely in mid-table and are likely to be up and down.  I am sure that Dean Smith sees exactly what we see and will improve talent in the squad going forward.

Sorry I don’t agree with any of that
We are not a team in the making we are a team that relies on Grealish

Without him we are a bottom half side
Maybe not bottom three but bottom six probably

Without Grealish we are no better than Newcastle

Some of you guys that think we are progressing in the right direction and Smith has it all under control are going to get a very big surprise if Grealish leaves
And let’s face it why should the best in England stay and play with Players who aren’t good enough to lace his boots

we are not progressing into a very good side we can look a very good side because we have one of the best players in the world
Yes we will get wins without him the same way as Sheffield United Newcastle and all the other teams in the bottom half get a few wins

But we are very ordinary bang average slow no creativity with literally zero ideas from management side
Yes I might get accused of overreacting and my post being embarrassing but what’s more embarrassing is that shower of shit that I saw last night trying to play football
Absolute garbage on and off the pitch

Sorry for the embarrassing post Dave but I don’t give a shit
I haven't seen any recent off with his head posts.

The nearest to blasphemy is John e post above.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Pat Mustard on March 15, 2021, 10:27:06 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on March 14, 2021, 10:04:11 AM
Quote from: aj2k77 on March 14, 2021, 08:55:45 AM
Quote from: Rigadon on March 14, 2021, 08:36:16 AM
What are we aiming for next year? More consolidation or winning stuff?  If the latter we need to bring in 3 or 4 players who would improve any top 6 teams first 11.  With that kind of squad, any decent manager (Smith included) would have a great chance to make some history of the positive kind!!

If we’re not ‘going for it’ now, then when?



You think Jack  Konsa Mings are hanging around for that?
If Jack goes then we will struggle to keep the best of this team together, lots of money coming in but at best mid table mediocrity for ever.
I think next season is make or break, as Riigadon says if not now when.


This is precisely the mentality we've needed to change for a very long time.  Players will always leave, get old, get injured or lose form - what needs to happen is that within the structure of the club we are able to replace these players with better ones when they go.  The work we are doing on buying up highly rated youth prospects is promising, and our recruitment strategy with Lange is light years ahead of anything we've had in the past.

Obviously we don't want to lose any of our best players right now, but it wouldn't necessarily be the end of the world and mean we are mired in mid-table mediocrity or worse forever.  Look at the players Leicester have lost in the years since they won the league, but are now comfortably ensconced in the top 6 - that's the kind of model we need to follow.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 15, 2021, 10:38:22 AM
Quote from: Pat Mustard on March 15, 2021, 10:27:06 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on March 14, 2021, 10:04:11 AM
Quote from: aj2k77 on March 14, 2021, 08:55:45 AM
Quote from: Rigadon on March 14, 2021, 08:36:16 AM
What are we aiming for next year? More consolidation or winning stuff?  If the latter we need to bring in 3 or 4 players who would improve any top 6 teams first 11.  With that kind of squad, any decent manager (Smith included) would have a great chance to make some history of the positive kind!!

If we’re not ‘going for it’ now, then when?



You think Jack  Konsa Mings are hanging around for that?
If Jack goes then we will struggle to keep the best of this team together, lots of money coming in but at best mid table mediocrity for ever.
I think next season is make or break, as Riigadon says if not now when.


This is precisely the mentality we've needed to change for a very long time.  Players will always leave, get old, get injured or lose form - what needs to happen is that within the structure of the club we are able to replace these players with better ones when they go.  The work we are doing on buying up highly rated youth prospects is promising, and our recruitment strategy with Lange is light years ahead of anything we've had in the past.

Obviously we don't want to lose any of our best players right now, but it wouldn't necessarily be the end of the world and mean we are mired in mid-table mediocrity or worse forever.  Look at the players Leicester have lost in the years since they won the league, but are now comfortably ensconced in the top 6 - that's the kind of model we need to follow.
If everybody could do a Leicester they would and they have been working on this for several years now.
Its like saying the best way to invest in the stock market is to buy low sell high.
It comes down to do you believe that building the team around Jack and co is more likely to get us to a Top 6 team than receiving the money to build again (doing a Leicester). I think the answer is pretty obvious.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on March 15, 2021, 11:36:48 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on March 15, 2021, 10:38:22 AM
Quote from: Pat Mustard on March 15, 2021, 10:27:06 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on March 14, 2021, 10:04:11 AM
Quote from: aj2k77 on March 14, 2021, 08:55:45 AM
Quote from: Rigadon on March 14, 2021, 08:36:16 AM
What are we aiming for next year? More consolidation or winning stuff?  If the latter we need to bring in 3 or 4 players who would improve any top 6 teams first 11.  With that kind of squad, any decent manager (Smith included) would have a great chance to make some history of the positive kind!!

If we’re not ‘going for it’ now, then when?
You think Jack  Konsa Mings are hanging around for that?
If Jack goes then we will struggle to keep the best of this team together, lots of money coming in but at best mid table mediocrity for ever.
I think next season is make or break, as Riigadon says if not now when.
This is precisely the mentality we've needed to change for a very long time.  Players will always leave, get old, get injured or lose form - what needs to happen is that within the structure of the club we are able to replace these players with better ones when they go.  The work we are doing on buying up highly rated youth prospects is promising, and our recruitment strategy with Lange is light years ahead of anything we've had in the past.

Obviously we don't want to lose any of our best players right now, but it wouldn't necessarily be the end of the world and mean we are mired in mid-table mediocrity or worse forever.  Look at the players Leicester have lost in the years since they won the league, but are now comfortably ensconced in the top 6 - that's the kind of model we need to follow.
If everybody could do a Leicester they would and they have been working on this for several years now.
Its like saying the best way to invest in the stock market is to buy low sell high.
It comes down to do you believe that building the team around Jack and co is more likely to get us to a Top 6 team than receiving the money to build again (doing a Leicester). I think the answer is pretty obvious.
Building a team around some of the current stars has to be the only way - the likes of JG, Konsa, Cash, Watkins and Martinez together is an opportunity that doesn't come around very often. More importantly, I'm sure the club recognise that and will invest accordingly.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Pat Mustard on March 15, 2021, 12:10:21 PM
Quote from: Mister E on March 15, 2021, 11:36:48 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on March 15, 2021, 10:38:22 AM
Quote from: Pat Mustard on March 15, 2021, 10:27:06 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on March 14, 2021, 10:04:11 AM
Quote from: aj2k77 on March 14, 2021, 08:55:45 AM
Quote from: Rigadon on March 14, 2021, 08:36:16 AM
What are we aiming for next year? More consolidation or winning stuff?  If the latter we need to bring in 3 or 4 players who would improve any top 6 teams first 11.  With that kind of squad, any decent manager (Smith included) would have a great chance to make some history of the positive kind!!

If we’re not ‘going for it’ now, then when?
You think Jack  Konsa Mings are hanging around for that?
If Jack goes then we will struggle to keep the best of this team together, lots of money coming in but at best mid table mediocrity for ever.
I think next season is make or break, as Riigadon says if not now when.
This is precisely the mentality we've needed to change for a very long time.  Players will always leave, get old, get injured or lose form - what needs to happen is that within the structure of the club we are able to replace these players with better ones when they go.  The work we are doing on buying up highly rated youth prospects is promising, and our recruitment strategy with Lange is light years ahead of anything we've had in the past.

Obviously we don't want to lose any of our best players right now, but it wouldn't necessarily be the end of the world and mean we are mired in mid-table mediocrity or worse forever.  Look at the players Leicester have lost in the years since they won the league, but are now comfortably ensconced in the top 6 - that's the kind of model we need to follow.
If everybody could do a Leicester they would and they have been working on this for several years now.
Its like saying the best way to invest in the stock market is to buy low sell high.
It comes down to do you believe that building the team around Jack and co is more likely to get us to a Top 6 team than receiving the money to build again (doing a Leicester). I think the answer is pretty obvious.
Building a team around some of the current stars has to be the only way - the likes of JG, Konsa, Cash, Watkins and Martinez together is an opportunity that doesn't come around very often. More importantly, I'm sure the club recognise that and will invest accordingly.

I'm not saying that we want to sell our best players, and that we shouldn't build on what we have.  What I am saying, though, is that we can't keep looking at what we have now and think this is our only chance to move forward as this is is precisely the kind of approach that has got us into trouble in the past. 

Over the last 30 years we have focussed so much on the here and now that when it hasn't happened immediately we have had to start again from scratch.  We have had top class players in our team on lots of occasions (going back to Dwight Yorke, Mark Bosnich, Ugo and Southgate, Ashley Young, James Milner, Benteke, Delph etc.), but have then spent over the odds on surrounding them with decent, but not great, players with little to no resale value.  We then end up losing the good players anyway, and are left with the rest.

What Leicester have done is the perfect example of how you can lose good players but keep moving forward.  In an ideal world I am positive that they would have preferred to keep Mahrez, Kante, Chilwell etc, but they have planned for the loss of these players should they happen and still improved as a club.  With the owners, management and structure we now have in place why shouldn't we be able to do the same?

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on March 15, 2021, 12:32:34 PM
Quote from: Rigadon on March 14, 2021, 08:36:16 AM
What are we aiming for next year? More consolidation or winning stuff?  If the latter we need to bring in 3 or 4 players who would improve any top 6 teams first 11.  With that kind of squad, any decent manager (Smith included) would have a great chance to make some history of the positive kind!!

If we’re not ‘going for it’ now, then when?



This season has turned into a sudden struggle to just finish top 10 now so shows we still have loads to learn in managing a 38 game season (particularly as for differing reasons we've barely played any cup games this season).

Hopefully we will finish 10th at least so a top half finish can't just be dismissed as o.k, it's pretty good for where we are in the rebuild.

Next season I'd say 7th or 8th should be realistic target and a really good cup run. Top 6 too much too soon unless we sign really well in key positions e.g. right winger and a really good striker coming in.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 15, 2021, 12:39:19 PM
So you think that we can just do a Leicester? How long do you suggest we wait to have create a Team based on the Leicester model?
We have a chance next season to push for Top 6  if we do enough to convince Jack that we have ambitions now based on the strength we have, because if we can convince Jack then retaining and acquiring the players we need is going to be an awful lot easier.




Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on March 15, 2021, 12:44:37 PM
Quote from: Drummond on March 15, 2021, 08:47:39 AM
Quote from: Risso on March 13, 2021, 06:26:20 PM
Quote from: OCD on March 13, 2021, 06:00:30 PM
For those calling for his head

Pssst. Nobody is.

There are a number who seem to be questioning whether Smith is the right man for the job though. And others suggesting he's inept and out of his depth.

We're 9th. Ahead of Arsenal, 2 points and a game on hand behind last season's runaway champions and 4 points and a game in hand behind Spuds.

It's massive progress in such a short space of time. Smith is the best opportunity and breath of fresh air this club has had in decades. He'll get things wrong, and the players will too, they know when it's not good enough and are honest about it. They learn too.

Every big name manager started somewhere. Why not grow our own?

i think that's a good point and and i think your sort of both right
no one has called for his head but people have questioned his ability to take us higher
when i say people i really mean me and one or two others

as Chicago says i'm probably the closest so far to that heresy

every post i make re Villa or Smith is with the view that with the new owners and renewed ambition we need to be looking at being a top 6/4 side on a regular basis
yes i know where we were two years ago but i never accepted that was where we should have been and through inept ownership and managers we fell to a position that was totally avoidable

do i think Smith should go
No of course not, you cant sack a manager that's done what he's done in the last couple of seasons that would be ridiculous

do i think Smith can deliver a top 6 side even a top 4 side
Yes but only if we keep Grealish
and that's the key as iv'e always said, we must keep him and the best way of doing that is European football because it would be a tragedy if Grealish did not perform at the highest level of Domestic and European football

do i think Smith can deliver a top 6/4 side without Grealish
this is where it gets to that heresy thing, because if i'm honest i don't think he can
so there i've said it, that's doesn't mean i want him gone but it does mean i probably think he's less capable than many of you others on here

Grealish is the key as iv'e said many times, he's the reason we are where we are, he makes everyone look better than what they really are both players and managment

i might be wrong we might lose Grealish and with the money Smith puts together a top team and goes on to challenge
personally i think if we lose Grealish at the end of the season (not saying we will) Smith will be gone by the end of next year
but that's just pure conjecture

in another scenario we keep Grealish and bring in 2/3 top players to support him and bang we are challenging ( this is obviously the one i want to happen)

i didn't think Konsa was good enough at the start of this season so i got that one wrong
its a football forum we say are piece and sometimes we get it right and sometimes wrong
end of the day we have to be honest and say what we think, and time will be the judge

but remember i spent two years arguing on here with Drum, Clampy, Adds and many others about Bruce
i said he was no where good enough for us and taking us nowhere
you all argued that he was the man and we should be sticking with him
so forgive me if i think your judgement of managers is fatally flawed , but i do

so it all boils down to Grealish for me not Smith
certainly at this moment in our development

i'm still very hopeful that with a returning Grealish we can still make it into the Europa spots
i'm not looking down i'm still looking up and staying positive



 








Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Pat Mustard on March 15, 2021, 12:55:54 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on March 15, 2021, 12:39:19 PM
So you think that we can just do a Leicester? How long do you suggest we wait to have create a Team based on the Leicester model?
We have a chance next season to push for Top 6  if we do enough to convince Jack that we have ambitions now based on the strength we have, because if we can convince Jack then retaining and acquiring the players we need is going to be an awful lot easier.

How long did it take Leicester do 'a Leicester'?  I seem to recall they got promoted, almost went down, next season won the League against any reasonable expectation, and since then have maintained a pretty balanced approach to building a squad and a club despite losing world-class players in the likes of Kante and Mahrez.  Whilst we might not be winning the league in the next few years, we aren't that far behind them now and have plenty of advantages over them in the longer-term.  I'd rather build something sustainable than go shit or bust like we have in the past and end up in the same place we spent most of the 2010's.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 15, 2021, 01:00:26 PM
Quote from: Pat Mustard on March 15, 2021, 12:55:54 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on March 15, 2021, 12:39:19 PM
So you think that we can just do a Leicester? How long do you suggest we wait to have create a Team based on the Leicester model?
We have a chance next season to push for Top 6  if we do enough to convince Jack that we have ambitions now based on the strength we have, because if we can convince Jack then retaining and acquiring the players we need is going to be an awful lot easier.

How long did it take Leicester do 'a Leicester'?  I seem to recall they got promoted, almost went down, next season won the League against any reasonable expectation, and since then have maintained a pretty balanced approach to building a squad and a club despite losing world-class players in the likes of Kante and Mahrez.  Whilst we might not be winning the league in the next few years, we aren't that far behind them now and have plenty of advantages over them in the longer-term.  I'd rather build something sustainable than go shit or bust like we have in the past and end up in the same place we spent most of the 2010's.
So we do a Leicester or Shit or Bust?
Genius
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on March 15, 2021, 01:18:15 PM
Quote from: john e on March 15, 2021, 12:44:37 PM
Quote from: Drummond on March 15, 2021, 08:47:39 AM
Quote from: Risso on March 13, 2021, 06:26:20 PM
Quote from: OCD on March 13, 2021, 06:00:30 PM
For those calling for his head

Pssst. Nobody is.

There are a number who seem to be questioning whether Smith is the right man for the job though. And others suggesting he's inept and out of his depth.

We're 9th. Ahead of Arsenal, 2 points and a game on hand behind last season's runaway champions and 4 points and a game in hand behind Spuds.

It's massive progress in such a short space of time. Smith is the best opportunity and breath of fresh air this club has had in decades. He'll get things wrong, and the players will too, they know when it's not good enough and are honest about it. They learn too.

Every big name manager started somewhere. Why not grow our own?

i think that's a good point and and i think your sort of both right
no one has called for his head but people have questioned his ability to take us higher
when i say people i really mean me and one or two others

as Chicago says i'm probably the closest so far to that heresy

every post i make re Villa or Smith is with the view that with the new owners and renewed ambition we need to be looking at being a top 6/4 side on a regular basis
yes i know where we were two years ago but i never accepted that was where we should have been and through inept ownership and managers we fell to a position that was totally avoidable

do i think Smith should go
No of course not, you cant sack a manager that's done what he's done in the last couple of seasons that would be ridiculous

do i think Smith can deliver a top 6 side even a top 4 side
Yes but only if we keep Grealish
and that's the key as iv'e always said, we must keep him and the best way of doing that is European football because it would be a tragedy if Grealish did not perform at the highest level of Domestic and European football

do i think Smith can deliver a top 6/4 side without Grealish
this is where it gets to that heresy thing, because if i'm honest i don't think he can
so there i've said it, that's doesn't mean i want him gone but it does mean i probably think he's less capable than many of you others on here

Grealish is the key as iv'e said many times, he's the reason we are where we are, he makes everyone look better than what they really are both players and managment

i might be wrong we might lose Grealish and with the money Smith puts together a top team and goes on to challenge
personally i think if we lose Grealish at the end of the season (not saying we will) Smith will be gone by the end of next year
but that's just pure conjecture

in another scenario we keep Grealish and bring in 2/3 top players to support him and bang we are challenging ( this is obviously the one i want to happen)

i didn't think Konsa was good enough at the start of this season so i got that one wrong
its a football forum we say are piece and sometimes we get it right and sometimes wrong
end of the day we have to be honest and say what we think, and time will be the judge

but remember i spent two years arguing on here with Drum, Clampy, Adds and many others about Bruce
i said he was no where good enough for us and taking us nowhere
you all argued that he was the man and we should be sticking with him
so forgive me if i think your judgement of managers is fatally flawed , but i do

so it all boils down to Grealish for me not Smith
certainly at this moment in our development

i'm still very hopeful that with a returning Grealish we can still make it into the Europa spots
i'm not looking down i'm still looking up and staying positive

I've defended managers before because generally I think they deserve a chance to get it right. With regards to Smith, I think, as I said before, that he's the best shot we've had for decades. He's learning, and improving. Who was the last manager to do that here?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Pat Mustard on March 15, 2021, 01:29:53 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on March 15, 2021, 01:00:26 PM
Quote from: Pat Mustard on March 15, 2021, 12:55:54 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on March 15, 2021, 12:39:19 PM
So you think that we can just do a Leicester? How long do you suggest we wait to have create a Team based on the Leicester model?
We have a chance next season to push for Top 6  if we do enough to convince Jack that we have ambitions now based on the strength we have, because if we can convince Jack then retaining and acquiring the players we need is going to be an awful lot easier.

How long did it take Leicester do 'a Leicester'?  I seem to recall they got promoted, almost went down, next season won the League against any reasonable expectation, and since then have maintained a pretty balanced approach to building a squad and a club despite losing world-class players in the likes of Kante and Mahrez.  Whilst we might not be winning the league in the next few years, we aren't that far behind them now and have plenty of advantages over them in the longer-term.  I'd rather build something sustainable than go shit or bust like we have in the past and end up in the same place we spent most of the 2010's.
So we do a Leicester or Shit or Bust?
Genius

Come on then Einstein, what's the answer?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT Villan on March 15, 2021, 01:56:42 PM
We are the epitome of inconsistency.

When we over-achieve we get elated and move our expectations higher, which ultimately bites us hard when we under-achieve and Smith bears the brunt of the complaints.

On average, we are exactly where we hoped to be this season and as such Smith has earned the right to try and push the ceiling higher next season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on March 15, 2021, 02:01:19 PM
I didn't think we'd be 9th this season, I was expecting more of a season like Wolves have had. Never in danger of going down but never in danger of pushing the top 6.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: West Derby Villan on March 15, 2021, 02:05:05 PM
Quote from: CT Villan on March 15, 2021, 01:56:42 PM
We are the epitome of inconsistency.

When we over-achieve we get elated and move our expectations higher, which ultimately bites us hard when we under-achieve and Smith bears the brunt of the complaints.

On average, we are exactly where we hoped to be this season and as such Smith has earned the right to try and push the ceiling higher next season.

Agree CT, we are the youngest team in the division and we have progressed enormously this season due to very good summer signings and players, bought the season before, becoming more experienced at this level. If we can continue with some similarly good signings in the summer the progression can be sustained and a top six place a reality
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on March 15, 2021, 02:05:11 PM
Well if we're not careful Wulfs will finish ahead of us.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 15, 2021, 04:51:32 PM
Quote from: Pat Mustard on March 15, 2021, 01:29:53 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on March 15, 2021, 01:00:26 PM
Quote from: Pat Mustard on March 15, 2021, 12:55:54 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on March 15, 2021, 12:39:19 PM
So you think that we can just do a Leicester? How long do you suggest we wait to have create a Team based on the Leicester model?
We have a chance next season to push for Top 6  if we do enough to convince Jack that we have ambitions now based on the strength we have, because if we can convince Jack then retaining and acquiring the players we need is going to be an awful lot easier.

How long did it take Leicester do 'a Leicester'?  I seem to recall they got promoted, almost went down, next season won the League against any reasonable expectation, and since then have maintained a pretty balanced approach to building a squad and a club despite losing world-class players in the likes of Kante and Mahrez.  Whilst we might not be winning the league in the next few years, we aren't that far behind them now and have plenty of advantages over them in the longer-term.  I'd rather build something sustainable than go shit or bust like we have in the past and end up in the same place we spent most of the 2010's.
So we do a Leicester or Shit or Bust?
Genius

Come on then Einstein, what's the answer?


E=mc2
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on March 15, 2021, 05:39:31 PM
Different forms of the same thing?

Thought you were coming up with a third way?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on March 15, 2021, 05:49:53 PM
Quote from: eamonn on March 15, 2021, 02:05:11 PM
Well if we're not careful Wulfs will finish ahead of us.
Table will stay more or less as it is now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on March 15, 2021, 06:12:06 PM
I'd probably settle for finishing one place higher and similarly above the team directly above us at the moment.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on March 15, 2021, 06:16:51 PM
Quote from: Pat Mustard on March 15, 2021, 12:10:21 PM
Quote from: Mister E on March 15, 2021, 11:36:48 AM
Building a team around some of the current stars has to be the only way - the likes of JG, Konsa, Cash, Watkins and Martinez together is an opportunity that doesn't come around very often. More importantly, I'm sure the club recognise that and will invest accordingly.
I'm not saying that we want to sell our best players, and that we shouldn't build on what we have.  What I am saying, though, is that we can't keep looking at what we have now and think this is our only chance to move forward as this is is precisely the kind of approach that has got us into trouble in the past. 
Over the last 30 years we have focussed so much on the here and now that when it hasn't happened immediately we have had to start again from scratch.  We have had top class players in our team on lots of occasions (going back to Dwight Yorke, Mark Bosnich, Ugo and Southgate, Ashley Young, James Milner, Benteke, Delph etc.), but have then spent over the odds on surrounding them with decent, but not great, players with little to no resale value.  We then end up losing the good players anyway, and are left with the rest.
What Leicester have done is the perfect example of how you can lose good players but keep moving forward.  In an ideal world I am positive that they would have preferred to keep Mahrez, Kante, Chilwell etc, but they have planned for the loss of these players should they happen and still improved as a club.  With the owners, management and structure we now have in place why shouldn't we be able to do the same?
I don't think we're saying anything different, but bear in mind Leicester 'did a Leicester' with some of those players who were then sold on - Mahrez, Kante. The point is that they assembled a team that slowly emerged into the title-winning side, seemingly over the course of a season; but the acquisition and development work obviously took place before that.
Chilwell and Maguire - whom they sold later - had come in / been developed as part of the 'post-Leicester' success.

We have the core of a team that could 'do a Leicester: we just need to carefully add the missing pieces.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: RamboandBruno on March 15, 2021, 08:14:10 PM
Quote from: john e on March 15, 2021, 12:44:37 PM
Quote from: Drummond on March 15, 2021, 08:47:39 AM
Quote from: Risso on March 13, 2021, 06:26:20 PM
Quote from: OCD on March 13, 2021, 06:00:30 PM
For those calling for his head

Pssst. Nobody is.

There are a number who seem to be questioning whether Smith is the right man for the job though. And others suggesting he's inept and out of his depth.

We're 9th. Ahead of Arsenal, 2 points and a game on hand behind last season's runaway champions and 4 points and a game in hand behind Spuds.

It's massive progress in such a short space of time. Smith is the best opportunity and breath of fresh air this club has had in decades. He'll get things wrong, and the players will too, they know when it's not good enough and are honest about it. They learn too.

Every big name manager started somewhere. Why not grow our own?

i think that's a good point and and i think your sort of both right
no one has called for his head but people have questioned his ability to take us higher
when i say people i really mean me and one or two others

as Chicago says i'm probably the closest so far to that heresy

every post i make re Villa or Smith is with the view that with the new owners and renewed ambition we need to be looking at being a top 6/4 side on a regular basis
yes i know where we were two years ago but i never accepted that was where we should have been and through inept ownership and managers we fell to a position that was totally avoidable

do i think Smith should go
No of course not, you cant sack a manager that's done what he's done in the last couple of seasons that would be ridiculous

do i think Smith can deliver a top 6 side even a top 4 side
Yes but only if we keep Grealish
and that's the key as iv'e always said, we must keep him and the best way of doing that is European football because it would be a tragedy if Grealish did not perform at the highest level of Domestic and European football

do i think Smith can deliver a top 6/4 side without Grealish
this is where it gets to that heresy thing, because if i'm honest i don't think he can
so there i've said it, that's doesn't mean i want him gone but it does mean i probably think he's less capable than many of you others on here

Grealish is the key as iv'e said many times, he's the reason we are where we are, he makes everyone look better than what they really are both players and managment

i might be wrong we might lose Grealish and with the money Smith puts together a top team and goes on to challenge
personally i think if we lose Grealish at the end of the season (not saying we will) Smith will be gone by the end of next year
but that's just pure conjecture

in another scenario we keep Grealish and bring in 2/3 top players to support him and bang we are challenging ( this is obviously the one i want to happen)

i didn't think Konsa was good enough at the start of this season so i got that one wrong
its a football forum we say are piece and sometimes we get it right and sometimes wrong
end of the day we have to be honest and say what we think, and time will be the judge

but remember i spent two years arguing on here with Drum, Clampy, Adds and many others about Bruce
i said he was no where good enough for us and taking us nowhere
you all argued that he was the man and we should be sticking with him
so forgive me if i think your judgement of managers is fatally flawed , but i do

so it all boils down to Grealish for me not Smith
certainly at this moment in our development

i'm still very hopeful that with a returning Grealish we can still make it into the Europa spots
i'm not looking down i'm still looking up and staying positive

I think John you speak really well and I do honestly get what your saying with this.
I realise that I sometimes come across as Smith fandom, I think this is partly down to the fact that when we appointed him it felt the most or in fact possibly only sensible managerial appointment we’d made since O’Neil back in 2006. Not because he had any profile particularly, just because he was young in managerial terms, played good football at that level, had earned his stripes and had the club at heart. It could of been Thierry Henry, which would of been more exciting on paper and a complete car crash in the championship.

However, I’m under no illusions that unless we’re on the cusp of something really special, then Smith won’t be here in 10 or 15 years and even if successful will probably be sacked or leave in 4 or 5 years at best, or in a year if we don’t do so well, that’s the name of the game.

Obviously Grealish is vitally important to all of this, mainly because of his ability but also what he symbolises, he is literally a hero to the younger generation of villa fans and probably us older heads as well. But I make the point again, we are not unique in this heavy reliance on one player to take us from average to very good. Leicester have been talked about in this thread, but for all their building and replacement of players that have left, where would they of been over the last 4 or 5 years without Vardy. The same with Spurs and Kane, no matter how good others like Son are. There is only Man City really and Liverpool last year that have a number of players of equal importance in an attacking sense.

Where I do think Smith deserves huge praise is the defence. Grealish played out of his skin last year and yet we still just about stayed up. This year Smith and his coaching team have changed that defence to something extraordinary. You take Grealish out of that team now without replacing him (which isn’t going to happen-the not replacing him if he ever goes), we lose that something special that has us as genuine challengers at the top end of the table, but there is no way we are relegation fodder with a defence like that. For me Jack probably isn’t in the top two players of the season and is behind Martinez and Konsa.

Finally, One thing always missing from these discussions as well, I never saw Grealish play as well for Bruce, so maybe our progress has of course loads to do with Grealish, but maybe the progress of Grealish has loads to do with Smith.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 15, 2021, 10:21:05 PM
Quote from: Ads on March 15, 2021, 05:39:31 PM
Different forms of the same thing?

Thought you were coming up with a third way?
it was in response to the Einstein quip, :o
But if we are looking for an alternative to trying to emulate Leicester or shit or bust then building on what we have means
1 retaining Grealish
2 securing Konsa Martinez Mings Watkins Cash Target
3 A couple of Young Milner quality recruitments
The rest is about solving our midfield structure, improving the players that are here and improving squad depth.
Nothing revolutionary but without solving 1 then everything else becomes more difficult.
The alternative being suggested is that we end up with no Jack and as soon as that happens the ambitious players will be vulnerable. Before you know it we are into a rebuilding job similar to what happened in our promotion season but without the core but lots of cash.
The question is from that situation how long it would take us to establish a potential Top 6 team or would that be even possible?

We have a serious opportunity to really push on because we have a once in a generation player, I just hope that the Club does everything to make it happen.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on March 15, 2021, 11:10:05 PM
I know, I continued it is all with what the equation alludes to.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on March 15, 2021, 11:17:22 PM
Another game tonight where both teams look out of ideas on the final third. Also stray passing and the tempo slowing near goal. We’re not alone at the moment.

Before lockdown I would never watch a match unless it was Villa but this season I’ve watched a lot of games and have really enjoyed watching many teams play exciting football. It does seem to have dried up a fair bit for a lot of clubs in the last couple of months. Not many teams are as free flowing as they have been before Christmas.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on March 15, 2021, 11:23:29 PM
I wonder if they're all starting to feel the effects of the short close-season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on March 15, 2021, 11:24:59 PM
Agreed. The quality of football everywhere recently has been poor.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: JuanMartinez on March 15, 2021, 11:25:34 PM
Put it this way, I shan’t be having Leeds to win many on my accas from now to May.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on March 15, 2021, 11:42:22 PM
The lack of supporters can't be helping concentration and motivation levels for a lot of players either. There's not the professional tension that would normally be there to keep players focused.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on March 15, 2021, 11:53:55 PM
It's been a long time since Villa were heading for midtable mediocrity. I'm trying to think of the last one to be honest, maybe MONs first season. There was one under Houllier/McAllister but that was more of a close miss from relegation followed by a very strong last handful of games. Maybe this is just the way it is, international tournament in the summer, not to mention the other non football distractions. There are a number of teams around us at the moment in beach mode too.

Recent performances haven't been remotely acceptable in any case, hopefully Grealish can come back and spur us to better performances before season end. This drift continues and we start next season on a bit of a downer though.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on March 16, 2021, 07:47:27 AM
Quote from: brontebilly on March 15, 2021, 11:53:55 PM
It's been a long time since Villa were heading for midtable mediocrity. I'm trying to think of the last one to be honest, maybe MONs first season. There was one under Houllier/McAllister but that was more of a close miss from relegation followed by a very strong last handful of games. Maybe this is just the way it is, international tournament in the summer, not to mention the other non football distractions. There are a number of teams around us at the moment in beach mode too.
Recent performances haven't been remotely acceptable in any case, hopefully Grealish can come back and spur us to better performances before season end. This drift continues and we start next season on a bit of a downer though.
I think that entirely depends how we develop the squad through acquisitions and departures.
As long as we do not lose our last 11 games, I don't think there'll be a collective downer from this season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 16, 2021, 09:13:02 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on March 15, 2021, 11:23:29 PM
I wonder if they're all starting to feel the effects of the short close-season.
I think it is a huge factor and impacting most teams, Citeh appear to be the only one coping with it well but with their squad depth.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on March 16, 2021, 10:12:31 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on March 16, 2021, 09:13:02 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on March 15, 2021, 11:23:29 PM
I wonder if they're all starting to feel the effects of the short close-season.
I think it is a huge factor and impacting most teams, Citeh appear to be the only one coping with it well but with their squad depth.

It definitely could be a massive factor in performances all across the league. Also it is crazy unprecedented times, in all walks of life we are going through the motions in many ways and we are all missing things in our normal lives.
Who's to say this in not taking it's toll on players in some degree.

I know I'm really missing seeing friends and family and seeing new places, or just places I would normally go to unwind to escape things, places like Dartmoor but it's a little too far at the moment.
 
All I seem to do is "go for a walk" around where I live. We're not designed to be so static and docile.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on March 16, 2021, 10:28:35 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on March 15, 2021, 11:23:29 PM
I wonder if they're all starting to feel the effects of the short close-season.
Probably but that applies to all teams so it's a level playing field. I think the missing ingredient for us is something to fight for. If Dean and team made 6th a must finish in order to qualify for Europe that would give the team something to aim for. I am looking for the type of response that took us to a playoff spot rather than just meandering along till the end of the season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on March 16, 2021, 11:01:26 AM
Quote from: olaftab on March 16, 2021, 10:28:35 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on March 15, 2021, 11:23:29 PM
I wonder if they're all starting to feel the effects of the short close-season.
Probably but that applies to all teams so it's a level playing field. I think the missing ingredient for us is something to fight for. If Dean and team made 6th a must finish in order to qualify for Europe that would give the team something to aim for. I am looking for the type of response that took us to a playoff spot rather than just meandering along till the end of the season.

The team have been aiming for Europe, Martinez mentioned it explicitly after one game.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brend'Watkins on March 16, 2021, 11:36:26 AM
Quote from: LeeB on March 16, 2021, 11:01:26 AM
Quote from: olaftab on March 16, 2021, 10:28:35 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on March 15, 2021, 11:23:29 PM
I wonder if they're all starting to feel the effects of the short close-season.
Probably but that applies to all teams so it's a level playing field. I think the missing ingredient for us is something to fight for. If Dean and team made 6th a must finish in order to qualify for Europe that would give the team something to aim for. I am looking for the type of response that took us to a playoff spot rather than just meandering along till the end of the season.

The team have been aiming for Europe, Martinez mentioned it explicitly after one game.

Of course it's the aim just like it's everyone's aim in and around where we are. The last 4 or 5 games doesn't back it up though even allowing for staleness in our squad's performance in the middle and up front.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on March 16, 2021, 11:45:30 AM
If you were a footballer, would you spend some of your spare time browsing the internet, looking to see what the fans said? I would, and even more so now I suspect players have done/are doing that. They don't get feedback at matches any more, or people hanging around training facilities etc.

There's a buzz about matchday, but I'd guess it's all a bot of an anti-climax. The clubs' psychologists and their teams must be working really hard along with the coaches. before anyone says anything, I'm not blaming the fans at all. I think there's just a spark missing and it's easy to lose focus. We've all had to realign priorities over the last year haven't we? Some things seem far less important, others more.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Allan C on March 16, 2021, 11:49:13 AM
Quote from: RamboandBruno on March 15, 2021, 08:14:10 PM
Quote from: john e on March 15, 2021, 12:44:37 PM
Quote from: Drummond on March 15, 2021, 08:47:39 AM
Quote from: Risso on March 13, 2021, 06:26:20 PM
Quote from: OCD on March 13, 2021, 06:00:30 PM
For those calling for his head

Pssst. Nobody is.

There are a number who seem to be questioning whether Smith is the right man for the job though. And others suggesting he's inept and out of his depth.

We're 9th. Ahead of Arsenal, 2 points and a game on hand behind last season's runaway champions and 4 points and a game in hand behind Spuds.

It's massive progress in such a short space of time. Smith is the best opportunity and breath of fresh air this club has had in decades. He'll get things wrong, and the players will too, they know when it's not good enough and are honest about it. They learn too.

Every big name manager started somewhere. Why not grow our own?

i think that's a good point and and i think your sort of both right
no one has called for his head but people have questioned his ability to take us higher
when i say people i really mean me and one or two others

as Chicago says i'm probably the closest so far to that heresy

every post i make re Villa or Smith is with the view that with the new owners and renewed ambition we need to be looking at being a top 6/4 side on a regular basis
yes i know where we were two years ago but i never accepted that was where we should have been and through inept ownership and managers we fell to a position that was totally avoidable

do i think Smith should go
No of course not, you cant sack a manager that's done what he's done in the last couple of seasons that would be ridiculous

do i think Smith can deliver a top 6 side even a top 4 side
Yes but only if we keep Grealish
and that's the key as iv'e always said, we must keep him and the best way of doing that is European football because it would be a tragedy if Grealish did not perform at the highest level of Domestic and European football

do i think Smith can deliver a top 6/4 side without Grealish
this is where it gets to that heresy thing, because if i'm honest i don't think he can
so there i've said it, that's doesn't mean i want him gone but it does mean i probably think he's less capable than many of you others on here

Grealish is the key as iv'e said many times, he's the reason we are where we are, he makes everyone look better than what they really are both players and managment

i might be wrong we might lose Grealish and with the money Smith puts together a top team and goes on to challenge
personally i think if we lose Grealish at the end of the season (not saying we will) Smith will be gone by the end of next year
but that's just pure conjecture

in another scenario we keep Grealish and bring in 2/3 top players to support him and bang we are challenging ( this is obviously the one i want to happen)

i didn't think Konsa was good enough at the start of this season so i got that one wrong
its a football forum we say are piece and sometimes we get it right and sometimes wrong
end of the day we have to be honest and say what we think, and time will be the judge

but remember i spent two years arguing on here with Drum, Clampy, Adds and many others about Bruce
i said he was no where good enough for us and taking us nowhere
you all argued that he was the man and we should be sticking with him
so forgive me if i think your judgement of managers is fatally flawed , but i do

so it all boils down to Grealish for me not Smith
certainly at this moment in our development

i'm still very hopeful that with a returning Grealish we can still make it into the Europa spots
i'm not looking down i'm still looking up and staying positive

I think John you speak really well and I do honestly get what your saying with this.
I realise that I sometimes come across as Smith fandom, I think this is partly down to the fact that when we appointed him it felt the most or in fact possibly only sensible managerial appointment we’d made since O’Neil back in 2006. Not because he had any profile particularly, just because he was young in managerial terms, played good football at that level, had earned his stripes and had the club at heart. It could of been Thierry Henry, which would of been more exciting on paper and a complete car crash in the championship.

However, I’m under no illusions that unless we’re on the cusp of something really special, then Smith won’t be here in 10 or 15 years and even if successful will probably be sacked or leave in 4 or 5 years at best, or in a year if we don’t do so well, that’s the name of the game.

Obviously Grealish is vitally important to all of this, mainly because of his ability but also what he symbolises, he is literally a hero to the younger generation of villa fans and probably us older heads as well. But I make the point again, we are not unique in this heavy reliance on one player to take us from average to very good. Leicester have been talked about in this thread, but for all their building and replacement of players that have left, where would they of been over the last 4 or 5 years without Vardy. The same with Spurs and Kane, no matter how good others like Son are. There is only Man City really and Liverpool last year that have a number of players of equal importance in an attacking sense.

Where I do think Smith deserves huge praise is the defence. Grealish played out of his skin last year and yet we still just about stayed up. This year Smith and his coaching team have changed that defence to something extraordinary. You take Grealish out of that team now without replacing him (which isn’t going to happen-the not replacing him if he ever goes), we lose that something special that has us as genuine challengers at the top end of the table, but there is no way we are relegation fodder with a defence like that. For me Jack probably isn’t in the top two players of the season and is behind Martinez and Konsa.

Finally, One thing always missing from these discussions as well, I never saw Grealish play as well for Bruce, so maybe our progress has of course loads to do with Grealish, but maybe the progress of Grealish has loads to do with Smith.
Absolutely nail on the head mate
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brend'Watkins on March 16, 2021, 12:24:12 PM
Very good post RamboandBruno.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tomd2103 on March 16, 2021, 02:23:43 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on March 15, 2021, 10:21:05 PM
Quote from: Ads on March 15, 2021, 05:39:31 PM
Different forms of the same thing?

Thought you were coming up with a third way?
it was in response to the Einstein quip, :o
But if we are looking for an alternative to trying to emulate Leicester or shit or bust then building on what we have means
1 retaining Grealish
2 securing Konsa Martinez Mings Watkins Cash Target
3 A couple of Young Milner quality recruitments
The rest is about solving our midfield structure, improving the players that are here and improving squad depth.
Nothing revolutionary but without solving 1 then everything else becomes more difficult.
The alternative being suggested is that we end up with no Jack and as soon as that happens the ambitious players will be vulnerable. Before you know it we are into a rebuilding job similar to what happened in our promotion season but without the core but lots of cash.
The question is from that situation how long it would take us to establish a potential Top 6 team or would that be even possible?

We have a serious opportunity to really push on because we have a once in a generation player, I just hope that the Club does everything to make it happen.

Agree with a lot of that CL, but just feel we are not really in control of the Grealish situation, for if an offer in the region of £100m comes in from a club he fancies moving to then it's going to be difficult to turn that down. 

Like you though, I think we have obviously got to do our best to keep and build the team around him.  I think the key is to continually be looking to improve and investing wisely to do that.  I think Wolves are probably an example of a club who haven't really  done that.  Had a couple of good seasons in the top flight, but we're very reliant on their starting XI, didn't invest in quality and are paying the price this season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on March 16, 2021, 02:46:18 PM
Wolves lost their star striker, Raul Jimenez early in the season. That's like us losing Jack for the season. They have a more than decent team but are toothless up front this season. Outside the bottom 3 only Burnley have scored less goals.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Neil Hawkes on March 16, 2021, 03:21:02 PM
Quote from: Brend'Watkins on March 16, 2021, 12:24:12 PM
Very good post RamboandBruno.

Seconded
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on March 16, 2021, 03:28:31 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on March 16, 2021, 02:46:18 PM
Wolves lost their star striker, Raul Jimenez early in the season. That's like us losing Jack for the season. They have a more than decent team but are toothless up front this season. Outside the bottom 3 only Burnley have scored less goals.

As well as losing Jota to Liverpool and Traore forgetting how to play football again.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on March 16, 2021, 03:42:00 PM
Quote from: Risso on March 16, 2021, 03:28:31 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on March 16, 2021, 02:46:18 PM
Wolves lost their star striker, Raul Jimenez early in the season. That's like us losing Jack for the season. They have a more than decent team but are toothless up front this season. Outside the bottom 3 only Burnley have scored less goals.

As well as losing Jota to Liverpool and Traore forgetting how to play football again.

Quite.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on March 16, 2021, 06:34:15 PM
His guns do look amazing in baby oil though.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on March 16, 2021, 08:26:25 PM
The Wolves were very tedious to watch last season as well.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on March 16, 2021, 09:31:43 PM
Quote from: Ads on March 16, 2021, 08:26:25 PM
The Wolves were very tedious to watch last season as well.

I'll have a bit of that type of tedious. They missed out on Top 6 on goal difference (3), scored 51 goals in their 2nd season back.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on March 16, 2021, 09:43:02 PM
Quote from: Ian. on March 16, 2021, 10:12:31 AM

I know I'm really missing seeing friends and family and seeing new places, or just places I would normally go to unwind to escape things, places like Dartmoor but it's a little too far at the moment.
 
All I seem to do is "go for a walk" around where I live. We're not designed to be so static and docile.

Heroes & Villeins.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tomd2103 on March 16, 2021, 11:17:05 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on March 16, 2021, 02:46:18 PM
Wolves lost their star striker, Raul Jimenez early in the season. That's like us losing Jack for the season. They have a more than decent team but are toothless up front this season. Outside the bottom 3 only Burnley have scored less goals.

Which I think goes to show that you need to keep investing and strengthening with quality.  You could see in that League Cup game against them last season that they had very little strength in depth and a few injuries were likely to derail them. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on March 17, 2021, 07:44:20 AM
Quote from: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on March 16, 2021, 09:43:02 PM
Quote from: Ian. on March 16, 2021, 10:12:31 AM
I know I'm really missing seeing friends and family and seeing new places, or just places I would normally go to unwind to escape things, places like Dartmoor but it's a little too far at the moment.
 All I seem to do is "go for a walk" around where I live. We're not designed to be so static and docile.
Heroes & Villeins.
Tres bon.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sid1964 on March 17, 2021, 10:24:05 AM
Nice letter received today from Dean
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: frank black on March 17, 2021, 10:26:26 AM
Sent one to the wife, but nothing for me 😞. That’s the JT influence no doubt
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on March 17, 2021, 11:41:52 AM
Quote from: frank black on March 17, 2021, 10:26:26 AM
Sent one to the wife, but nothing for me 😞. That’s the JT influence no doubt

Did it have a phone number on and a few xxx?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: frank black on March 17, 2021, 01:26:17 PM
Quote from: aj2k77 on March 17, 2021, 11:41:52 AM
Quote from: frank black on March 17, 2021, 10:26:26 AM
Sent one to the wife, but nothing for me 😞. That’s the JT influence no doubt

Did it have a phone number on and a few xxx?

Smells of Old Spice
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on March 17, 2021, 01:27:30 PM
What a Brut(e)!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on March 17, 2021, 02:11:20 PM
Quote from: sid1964 on March 17, 2021, 10:24:05 AM
Nice letter received today from Dean

I got one as well, must be at a loss for something to do.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on March 17, 2021, 02:40:51 PM
Got one too. Didn't mention if Jack was back on the grass or not, so binned it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villa Lew on March 17, 2021, 03:33:55 PM
There was a PS in my letter saying we would be signing Mbappe in the summer, he obviously forgot to put it on anyone else's.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on March 17, 2021, 04:23:12 PM
Good post RamboandBruno. I'm happy with Dean at the moment. He's doing ok. Room for improvement obviously but as it stands, I'm fine with him.

I've had a letter off him too, which was jolly nice.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: wince on March 17, 2021, 05:22:10 PM
Reading through this thread in the last few days I have some thoughts. We are in one of Deans slumps at the moment. When we win we do well. When we don’t it looks like he hasn’t got a clue.
We are over reliant on Grealish. However he is a higher calibre than many at our club so who wouldn’t be? We need a team of that quality.

Our expectations have been clouded by what we achieved early on in the season. When we should have craved stability we got taken on a ride that had us looking at Europe and giving it the big one to wolves. When it turned and the results started sliding it is doom and gloom. But go back to the times we were stuck in the championship. The club teams wanted to scalp. Look at playing the likes of Burton and Rotherham and then look at where we are now. Safe in the top flight in March for the first time since 2011?

Puts it in perspective and we should not let ourselves win the league in our head due to the weight of expectation. This is a marathon not a sprint and I used to think dean wasn’t the one for us. Now I think he actually is. Just takes time.
UTV
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT on March 17, 2021, 05:24:33 PM
Quote from: Villa Lew on March 17, 2021, 03:33:55 PM
There was a PS in my letter saying we would be signing Mbappe in the summer, he obviously forgot to put it on anyone else's.

I’ve just got mine in the post, but it says KDB on mine. He did ask me not to tell anyone though, so this is just between us ok?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villa Lew on March 17, 2021, 05:38:40 PM
Quote from: CT on March 17, 2021, 05:24:33 PM
Quote from: Villa Lew on March 17, 2021, 03:33:55 PM
There was a PS in my letter saying we would be signing Mbappe in the summer, he obviously forgot to put it on anyone else's.

I’ve just got mine in the post, but it says KDB on mine. He did ask me not to tell anyone though, so this is just between us ok?

No problem your secret is safe with me.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OCD on March 17, 2021, 08:02:36 PM
It said Erling Haaland in mine.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on March 18, 2021, 09:22:32 AM
My PS just says I’ve been reading your posts and i’m keeping my eye on you
With a picture of some random stakes and a fire emoji
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: purpletrousers on March 19, 2021, 01:10:34 AM
Quote from: john e on March 18, 2021, 09:22:32 AM
My PS just says I’ve been reading your posts and i’m keeping my eye on you
With a picture of some random stakes and a fire emoji
Your sure that wasn’t an old Tony Xia equation?

I thought the letter was lovely.

Admittedly (in the midst of a generally tough phase of life) it’s arrival punctuated a fraught half hour where I thought I’d overnight lost £3k of electric car grant through the Govt changing the entitlement.

My feeling was it was pretty heartfelt and entirely unnecessary, which made it great. No idea if I’ll be able to renew practically with two nippers under two (little AV joined last month by her lil sis Luna) and financially, but nice to be remembered and written to.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: purpletrousers on March 19, 2021, 01:14:40 AM
I should add she wasn’t knowingly named after our Antonio, which might have been understandable given my sole trip to the Emirates (thanks again Joe C) was witnessing Tony Moon’s Villa career highlight rampaging into nosebleed territory & slotting home. She was born on the full moon though.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on March 19, 2021, 01:15:56 AM
Dean Smith must hate me. I didn't get one - what did it say?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: purpletrousers on March 19, 2021, 01:20:58 AM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on March 19, 2021, 01:15:56 AM
Dean Smith must hate me. I didn't get one - what did it say?

He hates you.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: purpletrousers on March 19, 2021, 01:45:06 AM

(https://i.ibb.co/NxYX43M/3-C1-CB4-FD-5-FEC-4-A8-A-92-CC-2-BD256-E4-B440.jpg) (https://ibb.co/NxYX43M)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on March 19, 2021, 03:46:46 AM
Quote from: purpletrousers on March 19, 2021, 01:45:06 AM

(https://i.ibb.co/NxYX43M/3-C1-CB4-FD-5-FEC-4-A8-A-92-CC-2-BD256-E4-B440.jpg) (https://ibb.co/NxYX43M)


Thanks PT. I don't know what his problem with me is, but he's cutting off his face to spite his nose as far as I'm concerned.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on March 19, 2021, 07:27:49 AM
PS it’s Fcukin shin splints okay!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on March 19, 2021, 07:57:29 AM
it’s his 50th Birthday today

so it’s obviously his choice for the takeout tonight in his house
(Everyone does that don’t they)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on March 19, 2021, 08:16:39 AM
Happy Birthday gaffer. Keep up the good work
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on March 19, 2021, 09:50:45 AM
Quote from: purpletrousers on March 19, 2021, 01:45:06 AM

(https://i.ibb.co/NxYX43M/3-C1-CB4-FD-5-FEC-4-A8-A-92-CC-2-BD256-E4-B440.jpg) (https://ibb.co/NxYX43M)


Maternity Sessions and Morgan Sanson in the space of two lines. Only Deano could do that. Happy Birthday, mate!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villa Lew on March 19, 2021, 12:21:02 PM
Happy 50th Dean doing a great job
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: West Derby Villan on March 19, 2021, 02:36:21 PM
Happy Birthday Dean. I bet he got a very big card from Ollie
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on March 19, 2021, 02:38:28 PM
And a fish tank.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on March 20, 2021, 02:35:07 PM
Villa Fan - is Grealish injured I think I’m entitled

Dean Smith - you want answers

Villa Fan - is Grealish injured, I want the truth

Dean Smith - you can’t handle the truth
We live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with cones & Bibs, Who’s Gona do it ?
you Internet warrior, I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom,
You weep for Grealish and curse the management team, you have that luxury

You have the luxury of not knowing what I know, that Grealish’s injury, while tragic, probably saves games, and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, wins games, you don’t want the truth,
Because deep down in places you don’t talk about on Internet forums, you want me on that touchline, you need me on that touchline,
We use words like ‘yeah no’ ‘traps’ and ‘shin splints’ We use these words as the backbone of a life defending something,
you use them as a punchline,
I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the very blanket of the football tactics that I provide,
 and then questions the manner in which I provide them.

I would rather you just said thank you and went on your way,
Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a football and get on the pitch,
Either way I don’t give a damn what you think you are entitled to

Villa Fan - is Grealish injured

Dean Smith -  i’m doing my job.....

Villa Fan - Is Grealish injured

DS - YOU’RE GODDAMN RIGHT HE IS
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OCD on March 20, 2021, 02:54:41 PM
Very good but hopefully Dean Smith isn't then arrested.

Apparently when Tom Cruise was playing his part Jack Nicholson kept pulling faces at him. I struggle to watch that scene now without thinking of that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brazilian Villain on March 20, 2021, 04:33:13 PM
In other words Jack won't be playing Jack and Jack won't be playing jack.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on March 20, 2021, 11:08:16 PM
John e, that was fucking fantastic!!

I wish Dean would say it to Risso's face  ;D
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: West Derby Villan on March 21, 2021, 12:50:02 AM
Thank you, I’m on my way.........
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Bad English on March 21, 2021, 06:22:13 AM
Quote from: purpletrousers on March 19, 2021, 01:45:06 AM

(https://i.ibb.co/NxYX43M/3-C1-CB4-FD-5-FEC-4-A8-A-92-CC-2-BD256-E4-B440.jpg) (https://ibb.co/NxYX43M)
Dean wanted to “reach out”? Good grief!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on March 21, 2021, 08:08:46 AM
All injury and no play makes Jack a dull boy. All injury and no play makes Jack a dull boy. All injury and no play makes Jack a dull boy. All injury and no play makes Jack a dull boy.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Bad English on March 21, 2021, 08:33:59 AM
Dear Season-ticket holder,
Jack trained today. Or maybe, yesterday; I can't be sure'.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on March 21, 2021, 09:14:25 AM
Quote from: Bad English on March 21, 2021, 06:22:13 AM
Quote from: purpletrousers on March 19, 2021, 01:45:06 AM

(https://i.ibb.co/NxYX43M/3-C1-CB4-FD-5-FEC-4-A8-A-92-CC-2-BD256-E4-B440.jpg) (https://ibb.co/NxYX43M)
Dean wanted to “reach out”? Good grief!

And we're not even in the Top Four.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Bad English on March 21, 2021, 09:20:10 AM
I knew you'd be there.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Monty on March 21, 2021, 09:26:21 PM
I'm afraid the team looks predictable, plodding, lacking in sparkle and devoid of imagination. I know the players are on a budget and everything, but not more so than Leeds who, for all their defensive ludicrousness, do show that you can train modest players to attack with style. We don't have any of that right now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on March 21, 2021, 09:27:49 PM
He’s run out of ideas. The rest of this season isn’t going to be pretty.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TonyD on March 21, 2021, 09:28:59 PM
Stat masters. 

What are the stats for Jack starting games under Smith?   
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OzVilla on March 21, 2021, 09:30:09 PM
Well if his teams generally finish the season stronger then he’s got a hell of a job to do with this lot. Surprised at our lack of ideas and energy. Looks like we’ve hit the wall early.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan82 on March 21, 2021, 09:30:27 PM
Quote from: Monty on March 21, 2021, 09:26:21 PM
I'm afraid the team looks predictable, plodding, lacking in sparkle and devoid of imagination. I know the players are on a budget and everything, but not more so than Leeds who, for all their defensive ludicrousness, do show that you can train modest players to attack with style. We don't have any of that right now.

On paper we have had a good season. But if I were a betting man, I would back Leeds to kick on next season under Bielsa and would have a question mark here, for us.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ketzster on March 21, 2021, 09:30:46 PM
Quote from: TonyD on March 21, 2021, 09:28:59 PM
Stat masters. 

What are the stats for Jack starting games under Smith?

I think it’s 4 wins in 25 games without him since Smith took over
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brend'Watkins on March 21, 2021, 09:31:38 PM
Two quality midfielders and another striker. Not more of the same averageness. The defence is good as is the keeper but when Watkins is off form we don’t have anything. Lucas Mora was the kind of player I had in mind for starters.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on March 21, 2021, 09:32:04 PM
Quote from: Monty on March 21, 2021, 09:26:21 PM
I'm afraid the team looks predictable, plodding, lacking in sparkle and devoid of imagination. I know the players are on a budget and everything, but not more so than Leeds who, for all their defensive ludicrousness, do show that you can train modest players to attack with style. We don't have any of that right now.

The weird thing is the team is pretty much the same as the one at the start of the season that was rattling the goals in and creating chances galore.  It's not all about Jack as we started going off the boil before he got injured.

But the stats don't lie - 6 goals in 10 matches isn't going to win you many games.  It's actually amazing we've won 3 of them!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT Villan on March 21, 2021, 09:32:30 PM
We used to be a front-foot attacking team that were usually competitive in all games and usually good to watch including winning a fair number of our games. Dean has turned us back into an overly defensive counter-attacking team lacking in flair and creativity. The only bright spots of late are Konsa and Targett.

We are safe, which is nice, but we could have so much more.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on March 21, 2021, 09:32:36 PM
We need more quality in the final third if we're to push on.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Pete3206 on March 21, 2021, 09:32:57 PM
There was an image tonight of Smith looking towards the pitch clueless, while Shakespeare and Kelly waved their arms around with puzzled expressions.

The hopeless scene summed up the last month or so. Some big decisions needed in the summer.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on March 21, 2021, 09:33:21 PM
When Dean has been "found out" by other teams after a good start he has not shown the agility to respond effectively. Our last 10 or so games have been relegation standard. Time for Purslow & Co to make an assessment.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy65 on March 21, 2021, 09:33:27 PM
Why not do something different for a change? Surely all good leaders do this when things aren’t going well?

We have been poor for 8 or so games. The three wingers have consistently been inconsistent and are out of form. Spurs are playing badly and have been turned over in the week. Their CH’s are either out of form, average or both. Therefore why not play Davis up front with Ollie and probably Bertie and go long? Our three midfielders don’t have the ability to break Spurs down by passing through them. But no we do the same thing that hasn’t worked before and are surprised by the conclusion. Poor, poor tactics and lack of flexibility. Some players are undroppable and it shows.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on March 21, 2021, 09:34:36 PM
I said the other day we as Villa fans don’t need to fire Dean Smith. It’s ruthless at this level and frankly if he cannot push us on his future will look after itself. He has tremendous goodwill built up. He earned that. But now he is drawing on those savings and in the end there will be nothing left in the bank if he cannot rediscover what made us exciting to watch in the early parts of this season. The owners won’t put up with this if we go from nose bleeding thoughts of CL to a bottom half finish.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TonyD on March 21, 2021, 09:37:29 PM
Quote from: Ketzster on March 21, 2021, 09:30:46 PM
Quote from: TonyD on March 21, 2021, 09:28:59 PM
Stat masters. 

What are the stats for Jack starting games under Smith?

I think it’s 4 wins in 25 games without him since Smith took over
I proper breakdown would be useful.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan82 on March 21, 2021, 09:38:43 PM
Jack Grealish is one of the best players the club has ever produced. He is a local lad and a fan of the club. This, to my mind, is one of the biggest opportunities we have had in a generation to capitalize on some good fortune- he could be the golden ticket back to the big time. I know nothing about marketing but I would imagine he is one of the most marketable individuals the club has had on the books in quite some time.

I don't want to be sat here in ten years time looking back, yet again at 'what might have been' when we had one of our best ever players on the books. This summer is massive if we do have aspirations of winning things.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on March 21, 2021, 09:43:17 PM
Dean Smith without Jack Grealish

Played 23
Won 3
Draw 9
Lost 11
Goals 22
Against 36

Aston Villa 2-2 Stoke
Aston Villa 2-3 Leeds
Swansea 0-1 Aston Vila
Preston 1-1 Aston Vlla
Aston Villa 2-2 QPR
Aston Villa 0-3 Swansea
Wigan 3-0 Aston Villa
Aston Vila 2-2 Hull
Aston Villa 2-1 Ipswich
Reading 0-0 Aston Villa
Aston Villa 3-3 Sheffield Utd
Brentford 1-0 Aston Villa
Aston Villa 0-2 WBA
Stoke 1-1 Aston Villa
Aston Villa 1-2 Norwich
Aston Villa 1-2 Liverpool
Fulham 2-1 Aston Villa
Aston Villa 1-2 Leicester
Leeds 0-1 Aston Villa
Sheff Utd 1-0 Aston Villa
Aston Villa 0-0 Wolves
Newcastle 1-1 Aston Villa
Aston Villa 0-2 Spurs
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ez on March 21, 2021, 09:45:19 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on March 21, 2021, 09:34:36 PM
I said the other day we as Villa fans don’t need to fire Dean Smith. It’s ruthless at this level and frankly if he cannot push us on his future will look after itself. He has tremendous goodwill built up. He earned that. But now he is drawing on those savings and in the end there will be nothing left in the bank if he cannot rediscover what made us exciting to watch in the early parts of this season. The owners won’t put up with this if we go from nose bleeding thoughts of CL to a bottom half finish.

I think they will. I reckon Smith has a free pass for the rest of the season and the start of the next.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OzVilla on March 21, 2021, 09:49:24 PM
This is what I think. We’ve undoubtedly progressed this season but we’ve also missed an opportunity once we had progressed. He has the rest of the season and first 10 games of next season like most managers at this level.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on March 21, 2021, 09:52:45 PM
Quote from: ez on March 21, 2021, 09:45:19 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on March 21, 2021, 09:34:36 PM
I said the other day we as Villa fans don’t need to fire Dean Smith. It’s ruthless at this level and frankly if he cannot push us on his future will look after itself. He has tremendous goodwill built up. He earned that. But now he is drawing on those savings and in the end there will be nothing left in the bank if he cannot rediscover what made us exciting to watch in the early parts of this season. The owners won’t put up with this if we go from nose bleeding thoughts of CL to a bottom half finish.

I think they will. I reckon Smith has a free pass for the rest of the season and the start of the next.

I hope so. He absolutely deserves it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on March 21, 2021, 09:58:47 PM
Smith has done an excellent job.

We're in a poor run of form now and we're limited in consistent quality.

Grealish is world class, our Harry Kane if you like. He could play for anybody in the world.

But while Barkley can look a world beater, he has no consistency and his form has evaporated entirely and long ago.

Traore has phenomenal feet, can score and create. But can go missing for games on end.

Trez is not good enough. AEG is Ronaldo one game in 10, although has actually got a decent scoring record.

Davis is nowhere near good enough and Wesley we're still unsure of thanks to Ben Mee.

Watkins I love, but it looks like he could do.with a game or two sat out, but that's not possible.

There's not a lot to change attack wise and maybe a diamond like we switched up with in the last 10? Simply bypass the winger issue and flood central spaces?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on March 21, 2021, 10:00:33 PM
Pretty well summed up Ads.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: JuanMartinez on March 21, 2021, 10:01:04 PM
Quote from: Ads on March 21, 2021, 09:58:47 PM
Smith has done an excellent job.

We're in a poor run of form now and we're limited in consistent quality.

Grealish is world class, our Harry Kane if you like. He could play for anybody in the world.

But while Barkley can look a world beater, he has no consistency and his form has evaporated entirely and long ago.

Traore has phenomenal feet, can score and create. But can go missing for games on end.

Trez is not good enough. AEG is Ronaldo one game in 10, although has actually got a decent scoring record.

Davis is nowhere near good enough and Wesley we're still unsure of thanks to Ben Mee.

Watkins I love, but it looks like he could do.with a game or two sat out, but that's not possible.

There's not a lot to change attack wise and maybe a diamond like we switched up with in the last 10? Simply bypass the winger issue and flood central spaces?

Finally someone with sense and perspective.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Des Little on March 21, 2021, 10:01:38 PM
We need to look at giving Davis a go up top with Ollie. I don’t see any creativity coming down the flanks, so I’d take Trez out and give the opposition defence a bit more to think about.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on March 21, 2021, 10:04:55 PM
Quote from: Drummond on March 21, 2021, 09:52:45 PM
Quote from: ez on March 21, 2021, 09:45:19 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on March 21, 2021, 09:34:36 PM
I said the other day we as Villa fans don’t need to fire Dean Smith. It’s ruthless at this level and frankly if he cannot push us on his future will look after itself. He has tremendous goodwill built up. He earned that. But now he is drawing on those savings and in the end there will be nothing left in the bank if he cannot rediscover what made us exciting to watch in the early parts of this season. The owners won’t put up with this if we go from nose bleeding thoughts of CL to a bottom half finish.

I think they will. I reckon Smith has a free pass for the rest of the season and the start of the next.

I hope so. He absolutely deserves it.

He probably does. But the pressure will be massive. The owners have made promises to Jack to get him to sign a long term deal. It’s very well documented how ambitious they are. They know that if the club cannot get to where Jack feels it remains in his best interests to stay then they will lose him. It’s just really alarming that the manager cannot find a way to win without him because for the owners even with other players coming in that could be the future. And they will not want to lash out £100m+ to find the manager is unable to get us to compete at the top end of the table.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: JuanMartinez on March 21, 2021, 10:06:13 PM
I would rather have Savo Milosevic,
out of retirement, bandanna and all, than Davis anywhere near VP.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy65 on March 21, 2021, 10:06:35 PM
Quote from: Ads on March 21, 2021, 09:58:47 PM
Smith has done an excellent job.

We're in a poor run of form now and we're limited in consistent quality.

Grealish is world class, our Harry Kane if you like. He could play for anybody in the world.

But while Barkley can look a world beater, he has no consistency and his form has evaporated entirely and long ago.

Traore has phenomenal feet, can score and create. But can go missing for games on end.

Trez is not good enough. AEG is Ronaldo one game in 10, although has actually got a decent scoring record.

Davis is nowhere near good enough and Wesley we're still unsure of thanks to Ben Mee.

Watkins I love, but it looks like he could do.with a game or two sat out, but that's not possible.

There's not a lot to change attack wise and maybe a diamond like we switched up with in the last 10? Simply bypass the winger issue and flood central spaces?

But why not give Davis a go from the start?  Change the system that clearly isn’t working. DS is totally inflexible. Spurs CH’s were there for thetaking  tonight.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on March 21, 2021, 10:06:39 PM
The King is Dean Smith
And his clothes are Jack Grealish

Without Grealish the king has no clothes i’m afraid
And it’s there for all to see
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ketzster on March 21, 2021, 10:07:44 PM
Quote from: JuanMartinez on March 21, 2021, 10:01:04 PM
Quote from: Ads on March 21, 2021, 09:58:47 PM
Smith has done an excellent job.

We're in a poor run of form now and we're limited in consistent quality.

Grealish is world class, our Harry Kane if you like. He could play for anybody in the world.

But while Barkley can look a world beater, he has no consistency and his form has evaporated entirely and long ago.

Traore has phenomenal feet, can score and create. But can go missing for games on end.

Trez is not good enough. AEG is Ronaldo one game in 10, although has actually got a decent scoring record.

Davis is nowhere near good enough and Wesley we're still unsure of thanks to Ben Mee.

Watkins I love, but it looks like he could do.with a game or two sat out, but that's not possible.

There's not a lot to change attack wise and maybe a diamond like we switched up with in the last 10? Simply bypass the winger issue and flood central spaces?

Finally someone with sense and perspective.

Except it wasn’t a diamond. It was still 4-3-3 with Watkins going wide and Davis in the middle. That’s what it always is when Davis comes on. It’s never actually 4-4-2
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on March 21, 2021, 10:08:15 PM
Thought Davis did very well
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: curiousorange on March 21, 2021, 10:10:59 PM
This summer is not only important to improve what we have, but also to organise a plan B. We haven't had an alternative to Grealish for two and a half seasons. I'm pretty annoyed how much we've fallen off, even allowing for being ahead of the curve. I'm happy enough with Smith, but I'm not raving about him, and from next season I don't expect to see anemic runs like this.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: JuanMartinez on March 21, 2021, 10:13:51 PM
Quote from: PeterWithe on March 21, 2021, 10:08:15 PM
Thought Davis did very well

And its this train of thought that  keeps me up at night.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on March 21, 2021, 10:15:25 PM
Exactly that, there was no diamond at all. It was the same 4-3-3 that it always is.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ketzster on March 21, 2021, 10:19:53 PM
The other huge problem is that the tactical inflexibility means that once we go behind in games there normally isn’t any way back. The number of points gained from a losing position is also pretty dire.  So it’s not just the Grealish thing that’s a problem
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on March 21, 2021, 10:23:56 PM
Quote from: OzVilla on March 21, 2021, 09:49:24 PM
This is what I think. We’ve undoubtedly progressed this season but we’ve also missed an opportunity once we had progressed. He has the rest of the season and first 10 games of next season like most managers at this level.

I hate looking for a new manager midseason but the fact we're even discussing it tells you something is seriously wrong. Forget the 'without Jack' excuse, we were poor with him in the side before he got injured. Our results and league position have hidden the massive drop in performance levels. We were flying in the first half of the season and now we're sinking. Let's pray Dean can turn it around between now and the end of the season. My concern is he has form for going on these extended poor runs and not changing anything.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: rougegorge on March 21, 2021, 10:26:42 PM
Quote from: Ketzster on March 21, 2021, 10:19:53 PM
The other huge problem is that the tactical inflexibility means that once we go behind in games there normally isn’t any way back. The number of points gained from a losing position is also pretty dire.  So it’s not just the Grealish thing that’s a problem
You almost know the game is up if we concede first. In the last 2 seasons we beat Watford and drew at Chelsea, and that is it.

There is rarely a tactical change. Players may get subbed, but the formation stays the same and the opponents will know that as well.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 21, 2021, 10:27:24 PM
As usual his reaction to going behind is like for like subs and throw Davis on at the end.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on March 21, 2021, 10:32:05 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on March 21, 2021, 10:27:24 PM
As usual his reaction to going behind is like for like subs and throw Davis on at the end.


Groundhog Dean. Swap one of the shit wingers for the shit winger on the bench. Sub the other shit winger for Barkley, then confirm the Villa nil bit by bringing on Davis.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on March 21, 2021, 10:33:26 PM
Obviously is in the middle of a very sticky spell and this international break comes at a very good time. He urgently needs to reassess where things are going wrong and correct them.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on March 21, 2021, 10:36:04 PM
Quote from: brontebilly on March 21, 2021, 10:33:26 PM
Obviously is in the middle of a very sticky spell and this international break comes at a very good time. He urgently needs to reassess where things are going wrong and correct them.

Doesn't seem to matter if we have a long break, or three games in a week. The only real benefit to this international break is that hopefully this time Jack really will be back.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OzVilla on March 21, 2021, 10:41:46 PM
Quote from: Risso on March 21, 2021, 10:36:04 PM
Quote from: brontebilly on March 21, 2021, 10:33:26 PM
Obviously is in the middle of a very sticky spell and this international break comes at a very good time. He urgently needs to reassess where things are going wrong and correct them.

Doesn't seem to matter if we have a long break, or three games in a week. The only real benefit to this international break is that hopefully this time Jack really will be back.

The long break between March and July 2020 didnt seem to do us much harm. Smith needs to use this time in the same way as he did then and bang a few heads together.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on March 21, 2021, 10:57:26 PM
If we are going to have Davis in the squad then use him from the start. I would put Watkins wide left and Davis in the middle. Or play the two of them together. Because this “tactic” of brining on Keinan Davis late on when we NEED a goal is utterly fucking stupid. Give him a chance to play himself into a game and help create chances. He’s never, ever going to be that player who changes a game with 15 min to go.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on March 21, 2021, 10:59:34 PM
If we start playing Davis from the start we'll never win another game of football.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: JuanMartinez on March 21, 2021, 11:00:05 PM
Davis has scored 4 goals in half a decade of professional football, have i missed something here?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on March 21, 2021, 11:02:21 PM
I like Davis but I’m not sure I see the logic of moving our one goal threat to accommodate him
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on March 21, 2021, 11:02:47 PM
Doesn't that prove the futility of tactical inflexibility criticism of Smith?

If you on the one hand say Trez isn't up to it and El Ghazi and Traore are so inconsistent and frequently out of form. If you think Barkley has fallen off a cliff form wise and that Davis is not up to it, then realistically, what difference does a formation make?

If you don't think you have the players, then those poor or out of form players picking different runs from different positions won't make a significant difference.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brazilian Villain on March 21, 2021, 11:03:34 PM
Quote from: JuanMartinez on March 21, 2021, 11:00:05 PM
Davis has scored 4 goals in half a decade of professional football, have i missed something here?

Most likely.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: JuanMartinez on March 21, 2021, 11:04:33 PM
Quote from: Ads on March 21, 2021, 11:02:47 PM
Doesn't that prove the futility of tactical inflexibility criticism of Smith?

If you on the one hand say Trez isn't up to it and El Ghazi and Traore are so inconsistent and frequently out of form. If you think Barkley has fallen off a cliff form wise and that Davis is not up to it, then realistically, what difference does a formation make?

If you don't think you have the players, then those poor or out of form players picking different runs from different positions won't make a significant difference.

The most sensible poster, make him a mod.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on March 21, 2021, 11:07:19 PM
Quote from: Risso on March 21, 2021, 10:59:34 PM
If we start playing Davis from the start we'll never win another game of football.

In the grand scheme of things yes you’re absolutely correct. But at a time we are barely getting shot off let alone scoring a goal the current formation without Grealish isn’t working. I would much rather Watkins out wide than Trez who is not even close to the player he was pretty Covid lockdown this season. Something has happened there. AEG and to a slightly lesser degree Traore blow hot and cold. Mainly cold now. So try something different.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on March 21, 2021, 11:08:00 PM
Quote from: Ads on March 21, 2021, 11:02:47 PM
Doesn't that prove the futility of tactical inflexibility criticism of Smith?

If you on the one hand say Trez isn't up to it and El Ghazi and Traore are so inconsistent and frequently out of form. If you think Barkley has fallen off a cliff form wise and that Davis is not up to it, then realistically, what difference does a formation make?

If you don't think you have the players, then those poor or out of form players picking different runs from different positions won't make a significant difference.

No. He could play a diamond, and try to get the best out of McGinn's attacking play instead of stifling him by asking him to do a defensive job that isn't in his nature. Perming two out of the three shit wingers isn't working.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on March 21, 2021, 11:08:31 PM
Quote from: PeterWithe on March 21, 2021, 11:02:21 PM
I like Davis but I’m not sure I see the logic of moving our one goal threat to accommodate him

I know what you’re saying and i wouldn’t be suggesting it other than out of desperation. But Watkins isn’t a goal threat anymore. At least not like he was. And the one thing we have seen is he can be deadly down the left and cutting in.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ketzster on March 21, 2021, 11:09:51 PM
Quote from: Ads on March 21, 2021, 11:02:47 PM
Doesn't that prove the futility of tactical inflexibility criticism of Smith?

If you on the one hand say Trez isn't up to it and El Ghazi and Traore are so inconsistent and frequently out of form. If you think Barkley has fallen off a cliff form wise and that Davis is not up to it, then realistically, what difference does a formation make?

If you don't think you have the players, then those poor or out of form players picking different runs from different positions won't make a significant difference.

Isn’t the idea that if you know Trezeguet and El Ghazi aren’t good enough, you change the system so you don’t have to use them as wingers. So as you suggested, try a diamond for example with Davis and Watkins up front together. Take Brendan Rodgers. When Leicester lose their full backs through injury he changes the system. Smith never even tries anything different. No matter who the opposition is or what the situation in the game is, it’s always the same formation and the same like for like substitutes. As Rougegorge said, once opposition managers have worked it out it’s too predictable and easy to manage against
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on March 21, 2021, 11:12:55 PM
Quote from: Ads on March 21, 2021, 11:02:47 PM
Doesn't that prove the futility of tactical inflexibility criticism of Smith?

If you on the one hand say Trez isn't up to it and El Ghazi and Traore are so inconsistent and frequently out of form. If you think Barkley has fallen off a cliff form wise and that Davis is not up to it, then realistically, what difference does a formation make?

If you don't think you have the players, then those poor or out of form players picking different runs from different positions won't make a significant difference.

I don’t think I did criticise his tactics, he likes 4-3-3 so I think he should stick to it, abandoning it midway through a game leads to confusion and I think changing the players in that formation due to form is better than trying a new formation during a game.

He’s doing as well, if not better, than he should be given the squad.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 21, 2021, 11:13:13 PM
You would also hope by now we could take a corner or free kick that provides some danger to the opposition defence.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 21, 2021, 11:14:13 PM
Quote from: PeterWithe on March 21, 2021, 11:12:55 PM
Quote from: Ads on March 21, 2021, 11:02:47 PM
Doesn't that prove the futility of tactical inflexibility criticism of Smith?

If you on the one hand say Trez isn't up to it and El Ghazi and Traore are so inconsistent and frequently out of form. If you think Barkley has fallen off a cliff form wise and that Davis is not up to it, then realistically, what difference does a formation make?

If you don't think you have the players, then those poor or out of form players picking different runs from different positions won't make a significant difference.

I don’t think I did criticise his tactics, he likes 4-3-3 so I think he should stick to it, abandoning it midway through a game leads to confusion and I think changing the players in that formation due to form is better than trying a new formation during a game.

He’s doing as well, if not better, than he should be given the squad.
so keep doing the same thing and expect a different result?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on March 21, 2021, 11:15:47 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on March 21, 2021, 11:13:13 PM
You would also hope by now we could take a corner or free kick that provides some danger to the opposition defence.

I will never, ever understand that.  Bodymoor Heath has got a replica pitch of Villa Park.  Identical dimensions.  If I was paid to play football and was told I'd be on corner duty, the absolute bear-minimum I'd do would be to practice taking them such that I don't hit the first defender every, fcuking time!!!!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on March 21, 2021, 11:17:43 PM
Quote from: PeterWithe on March 21, 2021, 11:12:55 PM
Quote from: Ads on March 21, 2021, 11:02:47 PM
Doesn't that prove the futility of tactical inflexibility criticism of Smith?

If you on the one hand say Trez isn't up to it and El Ghazi and Traore are so inconsistent and frequently out of form. If you think Barkley has fallen off a cliff form wise and that Davis is not up to it, then realistically, what difference does a formation make?

If you don't think you have the players, then those poor or out of form players picking different runs from different positions won't make a significant difference.

I don’t think I did criticise his tactics, he likes 4-3-3 so I think he should stick to it, abandoning it midway through a game leads to confusion and I think changing the players in that formation due to form is better than trying a new formation during a game.

He’s doing as well, if not better, than he should be given the squad.

I think we were posting at the same time, I didn't mean you.

You persevere if you think 433 gives you a better defensive shape, as formations are when you're out of possession really. So if he likes 433, he's not going to change his mind because somebody like me ponders a diamond for 5 minutes in a week without any knowledge of what's gone on at BMH. And who knows, El Ghazi may end up being a Ronaldo clone for half a game.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on March 21, 2021, 11:18:11 PM
You can change a game keeping the same formation, invert the wingers, keep them higher and wider than we do, be braver pushing defenders into MF when in possession. All of which is easier than changing formation in a game
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 21, 2021, 11:19:56 PM
Quote from: PeterWithe on March 21, 2021, 11:18:11 PM
You can change a game keeping the same formation, invert the wingers, keep them higher and wider than we do, be braver pushing defenders into MF when in possession. All of which is easier than changing formation in a game
But we don’t do any of that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: JuanMartinez on March 21, 2021, 11:22:51 PM
Quote from: Ad@m on March 21, 2021, 11:15:47 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on March 21, 2021, 11:13:13 PM
You would also hope by now we could take a corner or free kick that provides some danger to the opposition defence.

I will never, ever understand that.  Bodymoor Heath has got a replica pitch of Villa Park.  Identical dimensions.  If I was paid to play football and was told I'd be on corner duty, the absolute bear-minimum I'd do would be to practice taking them such that I don't hit the first defender every, fcuking time!!!!

Do your due diligence, we clear the first defender more often than not.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on March 21, 2021, 11:25:10 PM
And there is nowt wrong with having a style and sticking to it, Ajax play 4-3-3 all through their teams, all across the world.

I remember reading Pep saying he trains his players to play in a system, he’s not going to abandon  all that and knock it to a big lump in the last 10 mins. It just causes confusion

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 21, 2021, 11:30:05 PM
The problem is that we often look worse after the substitutions.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on March 21, 2021, 11:30:13 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on March 21, 2021, 11:19:56 PM
Quote from: PeterWithe on March 21, 2021, 11:18:11 PM
You can change a game keeping the same formation, invert the wingers, keep them higher and wider than we do, be braver pushing defenders into MF when in possession. All of which is easier than changing formation in a game
But we don’t do any of that.

Yes we do. Wingers swapped sides in Wolves, Sheffield and Leeds games, if we did tonight I didn’t notice.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ketzster on March 21, 2021, 11:34:17 PM
Quote from: PeterWithe on March 21, 2021, 11:18:11 PM
You can change a game keeping the same formation, invert the wingers, keep them higher and wider than we do, be braver pushing defenders into MF when in possession. All of which is easier than changing formation in a game

Yes that’s fine if you have the personnel available to do that. But if Grealish is out and the options are change formation or play Trezeguet, I think changing the formation might be the better option. If the players available aren’t up the standard required then you need to try something different
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on March 21, 2021, 11:35:22 PM
Quote from: Ketzster on March 21, 2021, 11:34:17 PM
Quote from: PeterWithe on March 21, 2021, 11:18:11 PM
You can change a game keeping the same formation, invert the wingers, keep them higher and wider than we do, be braver pushing defenders into MF when in possession. All of which is easier than changing formation in a game

Yes that’s fine if you have the personnel available to do that. But if Grealish is out and the options are change formation or play Trezeguet, I think changing the formation might be the better option. If the players available aren’t up the standard required then you need to try something different

But if the players aren't up to standard...?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on March 21, 2021, 11:37:08 PM
Quote from: Ads on March 21, 2021, 11:35:22 PM
Quote from: Ketzster on March 21, 2021, 11:34:17 PM
Quote from: PeterWithe on March 21, 2021, 11:18:11 PM
You can change a game keeping the same formation, invert the wingers, keep them higher and wider than we do, be braver pushing defenders into MF when in possession. All of which is easier than changing formation in a game

Yes that’s fine if you have the personnel available to do that. But if Grealish is out and the options are change formation or play Trezeguet, I think changing the formation might be the better option. If the players available aren’t up the standard required then you need to try something different

But if the players aren't up to standard...?

Well then you have to look at who's to blame there. Lots of people have said for two years running that going into the season with the limited striking options we had was a bad idea, and two years running have been proved right.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on March 21, 2021, 11:40:47 PM
Quote from: Ketzster on March 21, 2021, 11:34:17 PM
Quote from: PeterWithe on March 21, 2021, 11:18:11 PM
You can change a game keeping the same formation, invert the wingers, keep them higher and wider than we do, be braver pushing defenders into MF when in possession. All of which is easier than changing formation in a game

Yes that’s fine if you have the personnel available to do that. But if Grealish is out and the options are change formation or play Trezeguet, I think changing the formation might be the better option. If the players available aren’t up the standard required then you need to try something different

He’s bought the players to fit in his 4-3-3 system
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on March 21, 2021, 11:43:33 PM
Other than Trez, who I have never quite warmed to, who else has looked consistently out of place?

Most have been in and out of form. A stronger squad will allow for that
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ketzster on March 21, 2021, 11:44:10 PM
Quote from: Ads on March 21, 2021, 11:35:22 PM
Quote from: Ketzster on March 21, 2021, 11:34:17 PM
Quote from: PeterWithe on March 21, 2021, 11:18:11 PM
You can change a game keeping the same formation, invert the wingers, keep them higher and wider than we do, be braver pushing defenders into MF when in possession. All of which is easier than changing formation in a game

Yes that’s fine if you have the personnel available to do that. But if Grealish is out and the options are change formation or play Trezeguet, I think changing the formation might be the better option. If the players available aren’t up the standard required then you need to try something different

But if the players aren't up to standard...?

Yes, Trezeguet for example isn’t good enough. He tries hard but he’s got no pace and is a very limited footballer, which if you’re playing on the wing isn’t a great combination. So why persist with wingers if your options are players who you know will be ineffective while Grealish is out?

Under Smith, without Grealish we have literally no idea whether another formation would work because Smith has never tried doing anything different. It might work, it might not, but what we do know is that if Grealish is out for any length of time the 4-3-3 almost certainly doesn’t seem to work
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: JuanMartinez on March 21, 2021, 11:45:21 PM
It’s a 4-3–3 not a 4-4-2
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on March 21, 2021, 11:51:29 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on March 21, 2021, 10:57:26 PM
If we are going to have Davis in the squad then use him from the start. I would put Watkins wide left and Davis in the middle. Or play the two of them together. Because this “tactic” of brining on Keinan Davis late on when we NEED a goal is utterly fucking stupid. Give him a chance to play himself into a game and help create chances. He’s never, ever going to be that player who changes a game with 15 min to go.

It would be good to have an international standard striker in the squad who can come on and do that and rescue us some points from games we're losing.

Kienan did well in his cameo and set up our best chance with the Barkley shot but the harsh reality is he hasn't scored a league goal since 2017.

We need to find striker like Giroud who's scores and holds it up no problem and contributes greatly to clubs he plays for winning stuff, would make so much difference.

Would've taken Milik who went to Marseille and scored 3 in his first 6 there, 28 year old international striker used to scoring in major leagues.

Baffles me us letting countless transfer windows passing and us not signing one. We signed John Carew and within a year were finishing 6th.

I like Ollie and he's had a good season but he's still 1 in 3 and I don't see him developing enough to be 1 in 2 like Benteke was (shame the rest of the team was rubbish in those days). As we've seen in the past it's difficult to finish that high up the league if you don't have one striker who gets close to 20 goals.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on March 21, 2021, 11:58:14 PM
I actually think Ollie can be a more productive forward if he’s not asked to run 20 miles per game. And that we have a legitimate alternative in the squad to share time with as you’re suggesting.

It’s just foolish yet again to have him on his own all game and not having signed another forward to help him. We loaned out Samatta and have a broken Wesley and a striker in Davis who has been essentially neutered.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on March 22, 2021, 01:12:20 AM
Are his eyes painted on at the moment? Wake the fuck up and change something other than shuffling around El Ghazi and Trezeguet each week.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on March 22, 2021, 02:00:03 AM
6 goals in 10 or 12 in the last 15. Wake up Deano. It's gone stale, you're letting it drift.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 22, 2021, 06:23:40 AM
Quote from: PeterWithe on March 21, 2021, 11:30:13 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on March 21, 2021, 11:19:56 PM
Quote from: PeterWithe on March 21, 2021, 11:18:11 PM
You can change a game keeping the same formation, invert the wingers, keep them higher and wider than we do, be braver pushing defenders into MF when in possession. All of which is easier than changing formation in a game
But we don’t do any of that.

Yes we do. Wingers swapped sides in Wolves, Sheffield and Leeds games, if we did tonight I didn’t notice.
they swapped sides at times ,so what ?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on March 22, 2021, 07:03:51 AM
Quote from: Ads on March 21, 2021, 11:35:22 PM
Quote from: Ketzster on March 21, 2021, 11:34:17 PM
Quote from: PeterWithe on March 21, 2021, 11:18:11 PM
You can change a game keeping the same formation, invert the wingers, keep them higher and wider than we do, be braver pushing defenders into MF when in possession. All of which is easier than changing formation in a game

Yes that’s fine if you have the personnel available to do that. But if Grealish is out and the options are change formation or play Trezeguet, I think changing the formation might be the better option. If the players available aren’t up the standard required then you need to try something different

But if the players aren't up to standard...?

That’s even more damning
after a 250million player investment

All that money spent and we are still a one man team
No way that should be the case
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: nigel on March 22, 2021, 07:19:33 AM
Might need to duck for cover here, but give how wobbly their defence looked for the first 30 mins, I’d have been tempted to Keenan on for the second half. Probably in place of Trez.
Ok yes, he, more than likely, wouldn’t have troubled the keeper, but he certainly would have taken the pressure off Ollie
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sid1964 on March 22, 2021, 07:24:19 AM
If i was one of the owners who had pumped in £400 million into the club, i would be asking some serious questions this morning.

We never looked like scoring, our midfield just pass the ball sidewards or backwards
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Allan C on March 22, 2021, 08:02:14 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on March 21, 2021, 11:30:05 PM
The problem is that we often look worse after the substitutions.
That’s because invariably they aren’t as good as the players they’re replacing and IMO that’s our problem right now, a lack of quality and squad depth
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on March 22, 2021, 08:32:50 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on March 22, 2021, 06:23:40 AM
Quote from: PeterWithe on March 21, 2021, 11:30:13 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on March 21, 2021, 11:19:56 PM
Quote from: PeterWithe on March 21, 2021, 11:18:11 PM
You can change a game keeping the same formation, invert the wingers, keep them higher and wider than we do, be braver pushing defenders into MF when in possession. All of which is easier than changing formation in a game
But we don’t do any of that.

Yes we do. Wingers swapped sides in Wolves, Sheffield and Leeds games, if we did tonight I didn’t notice.
they swapped sides at times ,so what ?


You said we don’t do it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on March 22, 2021, 08:38:52 AM
Our best player (one of the very best anywhere) is out. The player signed to help make a difference is out of form after his injury.

With those two in and firing, we're a completely different team. Our movement, ball retention and creativity are wanting at the moment and it puts pressure on others.

We're not on the best run but it's not about the quality of the manager, it's about the quality of the players we (don't) have.

Traore has gone off the boil. Trez works hard and whilst it works when there is creativity elsewhere in the side, it makes us look weaker when there isn't. AEG just isn't consistent enough yet.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on March 22, 2021, 08:39:42 AM
Quote from: Risso on March 21, 2021, 10:59:34 PM
If we start playing Davis from the start we'll never win another game of football.

No, never, ever again. We'll be in the Conference in 5 years.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on March 22, 2021, 09:16:46 AM
Davis is not the answer because he isn't a striker. He does not score, end of.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on March 22, 2021, 09:46:18 AM
Well we've failed to beat the two worst sides in the division in the last couple of weeks so something needs to be changed up, 12 goals in 15 games isn't good enough. The wide players in particular are a waste of time at the moment. If he persists in the same formation again and again then at some point I'd try:

                       Nakamba   Sanson
                                McGinn
                Watkins                   Grealish

                                Davis


Give McGinn licence to get forward more and press higher up the pitch. Watkins has already showed his ability cutting in from a wider position and has played wider for the majority of his career. Swapping around Trezeguet and El Ghazi after each poor performance is just lazy.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on March 22, 2021, 09:55:25 AM
Quote from: mr underhill on March 22, 2021, 09:16:46 AM
Davis is not the answer because he isn't a striker. He does not score, end of.

end of what?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: N'ZMAV on March 22, 2021, 09:56:55 AM
end of suggestion he is an option? (not sure if anyone did suggest that)

devils advocate - Davis hasn't had a run in the team to try and score, but there's probably a few good reasons for that
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on March 22, 2021, 09:59:43 AM
Quote from: PeterWithe on March 21, 2021, 11:43:33 PM
Other than Trez, who I have never quite warmed to, who else has looked consistently out of place?

Most have been in and out of form. A stronger squad will allow for that

That's too easy an excuse for me. Smith refused to rotate the squad for the first half of the season and for me we lost two perfectly acceptable backup players as a result.

Two of our most expensive recruits, Barkley and Traore have been dreadful for months. Have offered absolutely nothing since Grealish got injured. Throwing money at the problem is a bit too easy.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: N'ZMAV on March 22, 2021, 10:00:34 AM
I'm concerned about Smith at the moment.
He has a good team, but that's it - should he be getting more out of the fringe players? or are they fringe players for a reason?

but one thing is for sure - you can't get far with 1 star player, a decent defence and a striker who get's some, but not loads of goals but hardly any help.

The owners are really going to have to pump in another £250mil at some point - we need another 10 better players, that may seem a lot of players - but we're starting to see that the likes of Luiz, McGinnand Traore are only really that useful when on top form - which, isn't often enough.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: BC Villain on March 22, 2021, 10:05:08 AM
Quote from: Rudy65 on March 21, 2021, 09:33:27 PM
Why not do something different for a change? Surely all good leaders do this when things aren’t going well?

We have been poor for 8 or so games. The three wingers have consistently been inconsistent and are out of form. Spurs are playing badly and have been turned over in the week. Their CH’s are either out of form, average or both. Therefore why not play Davis up front with Ollie and probably Bertie and go long? Our three midfielders don’t have the ability to break Spurs down by passing through them. But no we do the same thing that hasn’t worked before and are surprised by the conclusion. Poor, poor tactics and lack of flexibility. Some players are undroppable and it shows.

Perhaps he doesn't trust the players.  Which is very daming considering they were bought on his watch
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 22, 2021, 10:07:49 AM
Quote from: PeterWithe on March 22, 2021, 08:32:50 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on March 22, 2021, 06:23:40 AM
Quote from: PeterWithe on March 21, 2021, 11:30:13 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on March 21, 2021, 11:19:56 PM
Quote from: PeterWithe on March 21, 2021, 11:18:11 PM
You can change a game keeping the same formation, invert the wingers, keep them higher and wider than we do, be braver pushing defenders into MF when in possession. All of which is easier than changing formation in a game
But we don’t do any of that.

Yes we do. Wingers swapped sides in Wolves, Sheffield and Leeds games, if we did tonight I didn’t notice.
they swapped sides at times ,so what ?


You said we don’t do it.
why dont you read your post above  :o
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: N'ZMAV on March 22, 2021, 10:08:35 AM
Quote from: BC Villain on March 22, 2021, 10:05:08 AM
Quote from: Rudy65 on March 21, 2021, 09:33:27 PM
Why not do something different for a change? Surely all good leaders do this when things aren’t going well?

We have been poor for 8 or so games. The three wingers have consistently been inconsistent and are out of form. Spurs are playing badly and have been turned over in the week. Their CH’s are either out of form, average or both. Therefore why not play Davis up front with Ollie and probably Bertie and go long? Our three midfielders don’t have the ability to break Spurs down by passing through them. But no we do the same thing that hasn’t worked before and are surprised by the conclusion. Poor, poor tactics and lack of flexibility. Some players are undroppable and it shows.

Perhaps he doesn't trust the players.  Which is very daming considering they were bought on his watch
blame Suso
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on March 22, 2021, 10:13:18 AM
Quote from: N'ZMAV on March 22, 2021, 10:00:34 AM
I'm concerned about Smith at the moment.
He has a good team, but that's it - should he be getting more out of the fringe players? or are they fringe players for a reason?

but one thing is for sure - you can't get far with 1 star player, a decent defence and a striker who get's some, but not loads of goals but hardly any help.

The owners are really going to have to pump in another £250mil at some point - we need another 10 better players, that may seem a lot of players - but we're starting to see that the likes of Luiz, McGinnand Traore are only really that useful when on top form - which, isn't often enough.

10 players? That's a bit extreme dont you think for a midtable side?

Left back to replace Taylor in the squad.
Centre Mid who is mobile and physical to replace Luiz in the side.
Wide Right to replace Traore in the side.
Wide Left so we can move Grealish inside.
Striker to replace Davis in the squad.

The weak links of Luiz, Traore and Trez/El Ghazi moved down to squad players and you'd see a huge difference in this side.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Bobby Boy on March 22, 2021, 10:17:12 AM
Dean has done a fine job for us without question but his tactical rigidity and like-for-like substitutions seem to show a lack of imagination and tactical nous that you need to be a really top manager.

If you look at Leicester Brendan Rodgers is constantly tweaking styles and formations to get the best out of his teams. They have been without a number of their star players for chunks of this season and have scarcely missed a beat.

Seeing the line up and formation yesterday was dispiriting. Even without Grealish or particularly without Grealish we need a bit of tactical imagination that we seem to be lacking.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 22, 2021, 10:22:41 AM
Quote from: aj2k77 on March 22, 2021, 10:13:18 AM
Quote from: N'ZMAV on March 22, 2021, 10:00:34 AM
I'm concerned about Smith at the moment.
He has a good team, but that's it - should he be getting more out of the fringe players? or are they fringe players for a reason?

but one thing is for sure - you can't get far with 1 star player, a decent defence and a striker who get's some, but not loads of goals but hardly any help.

The owners are really going to have to pump in another £250mil at some point - we need another 10 better players, that may seem a lot of players - but we're starting to see that the likes of Luiz, McGinnand Traore are only really that useful when on top form - which, isn't often enough.

10 players? That's a bit extreme dont you think for a midtable side?

Left back to replace Taylor in the squad.
Centre Mid who is mobile and physical to replace Luiz in the side.
Wide Right to replace Traore in the side.
Wide Left so we can move Grealish inside.
Striker to replace Davis in the squad.

The weak links of Luiz, Traore and Trez/El Ghazi moved down to squad players and you'd see a huge difference in this side.
I think thats about it, Luiz has shown that he can be good enough.
Bringing in 5 top players in one window is a big ask, so you have to hope that we have a couple coming through and get at least 2 first team players in the summer.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: West Derby Villan on March 22, 2021, 10:27:53 AM
Quote from: Drummond on March 22, 2021, 08:38:52 AM
Our best player (one of the very best anywhere) is out. The player signed to help make a difference is out of form after his injury.

With those two in and firing, we're a completely different team. Our movement, ball retention and creativity are wanting at the moment and it puts pressure on others.

We're not on the best run but it's not about the quality of the manager, it's about the quality of the players we (don't) have.

Traore has gone off the boil. Trez works hard and whilst it works when there is creativity elsewhere in the side, it makes us look weaker when there isn't. AEG just isn't consistent enough yet.

Fully agree, every team has a dip during the season and should not be totally unexpected in this particularly strange season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: N'ZMAV on March 22, 2021, 10:38:47 AM
Quote from: aj2k77 on March 22, 2021, 10:13:18 AM
Quote from: N'ZMAV on March 22, 2021, 10:00:34 AM
I'm concerned about Smith at the moment.
He has a good team, but that's it - should he be getting more out of the fringe players? or are they fringe players for a reason?

but one thing is for sure - you can't get far with 1 star player, a decent defence and a striker who get's some, but not loads of goals but hardly any help.

The owners are really going to have to pump in another £250mil at some point - we need another 10 better players, that may seem a lot of players - but we're starting to see that the likes of Luiz, McGinnand Traore are only really that useful when on top form - which, isn't often enough.

10 players? That's a bit extreme dont you think for a midtable side?

Left back to replace Taylor in the squad.
Centre Mid who is mobile and physical to replace Luiz in the side.
Wide Right to replace Traore in the side.
Wide Left so we can move Grealish inside.
Striker to replace Davis in the squad.

The weak links of Luiz, Traore and Trez/El Ghazi moved down to squad players and you'd see a huge difference in this side.


that's 5 additions before we've really got rid of some more of the garbage.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on March 22, 2021, 10:59:21 AM
Quote from: West Derby Villan on March 22, 2021, 10:27:53 AM
Quote from: Drummond on March 22, 2021, 08:38:52 AM
Our best player (one of the very best anywhere) is out. The player signed to help make a difference is out of form after his injury.

With those two in and firing, we're a completely different team. Our movement, ball retention and creativity are wanting at the moment and it puts pressure on others.

We're not on the best run but it's not about the quality of the manager, it's about the quality of the players we (don't) have.

Traore has gone off the boil. Trez works hard and whilst it works when there is creativity elsewhere in the side, it makes us look weaker when there isn't. AEG just isn't consistent enough yet.

Fully agree, every team has a dip during the season and should not be totally unexpected in this particularly strange season.

This isn't a dip though. We are playing some of the most turgid football seen since the days of Alex McLeish. Smith seems clueless as to what to do when Grealish is unavailable, that's going back to the day he joined the club not any recent development. In recent games, we have had Trez in the Grealish sized hole on our left flank with predictable results. Surely yesterday was the ideal day for tearing up the tactical script against a very vulnerable Spurs team. Not the same 433 rubbish with two horribly out of form wingers.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on March 22, 2021, 11:20:33 AM
10 new top players is not going to happen so stop being selfish.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on March 22, 2021, 11:24:55 AM
It needs to be a steady job, adding players here and there when they become available. It was never going to happen overnight, especially after surving relegation by a whisker. It'll take time but I personally think this season, despite the bumps in the road which were inevitable, has been really promising. It's how we kick on next season which will be the test.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on March 22, 2021, 11:29:39 AM
Quote from: brontebilly on March 22, 2021, 10:59:21 AM
Quote from: West Derby Villan on March 22, 2021, 10:27:53 AM
Quote from: Drummond on March 22, 2021, 08:38:52 AM
Our best player (one of the very best anywhere) is out. The player signed to help make a difference is out of form after his injury.

With those two in and firing, we're a completely different team. Our movement, ball retention and creativity are wanting at the moment and it puts pressure on others.

We're not on the best run but it's not about the quality of the manager, it's about the quality of the players we (don't) have.

Traore has gone off the boil. Trez works hard and whilst it works when there is creativity elsewhere in the side, it makes us look weaker when there isn't. AEG just isn't consistent enough yet.

Fully agree, every team has a dip during the season and should not be totally unexpected in this particularly strange season.

This isn't a dip though. We are playing some of the most turgid football seen since the days of Alex McLeish. Smith seems clueless as to what to do when Grealish is unavailable, that's going back to the day he joined the club not any recent development. In recent games, we have had Trez in the Grealish sized hole on our left flank with predictable results. Surely yesterday was the ideal day for tearing up the tactical script against a very vulnerable Spurs team. Not the same 433 rubbish with two horribly out of form wingers.

Any team suffers when a world-class player isn't available, unless they have other world-class players to replace them; that's not the fault of the manager it's just a plain and simple fact.

Yes, you can make adjustments to cope, but in reality that again comes down to the quality of the other players available to you. Barkley would have been seen as someone to add quality, and he did for a while. Other than that, we're short in that area and will no doubt be looking for additional resources.

And tearing up the tactical script and going for what? If you change it massively, you'll end up confusing the issue.

Long and short of it is that we're still improving. We're inconsistent but we are way better than we were. We will come back into form again, we'll improve again too.

So far Smith got us promoted a year early. Then he kept us up. This season we're safe with a dozen games to go and the very definition of a mid-table team. Next season we should be aiming for top 8, though that means overhauling a bunch of teams who have spent considerably more than we have, and had plenty of time to build.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: N'ZMAV on March 22, 2021, 11:32:00 AM
Quote from: eamonn on March 22, 2021, 11:20:33 AM
10 new top players is not going to happen so stop being selfish.

:D :D :D
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: N'ZMAV on March 22, 2021, 11:32:48 AM
Football is totally selfish - we all want our own team to have the best players and to win every game.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: fredm on March 22, 2021, 11:51:24 AM
Quote from: Bobby Boy on March 22, 2021, 10:17:12 AM
Dean has done a fine job for us without question but his tactical rigidity and like-for-like substitutions seem to show a lack of imagination and tactical nous that you need to be a really top manager.

If you look at Leicester Brendan Rodgers is constantly tweaking styles and formations to get the best out of his teams. They have been without a number of their star players for chunks of this season and have scarcely missed a beat.

Seeing the line up and formation yesterday was dispiriting. Even without Grealish or particularly without Grealish we need a bit of tactical imagination that we seem to be lacking.

Nail and head here.  Look at the injuries Leicester have had this season (were without Barnes and Maddison yesterday) yet Rodgers has changed the shape/formation when different players have come in and they play as if it is no different every week. I would say that our squad is not that far off Leicesters for quality so it just needs more tactical awareness both on and off the pitch.  A couple of top class additions this summer and we would be level in quality with them.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on March 22, 2021, 12:09:21 PM
Quote from: fredm on March 22, 2021, 11:51:24 AM
Quote from: Bobby Boy on March 22, 2021, 10:17:12 AM
Dean has done a fine job for us without question but his tactical rigidity and like-for-like substitutions seem to show a lack of imagination and tactical nous that you need to be a really top manager.

If you look at Leicester Brendan Rodgers is constantly tweaking styles and formations to get the best out of his teams. They have been without a number of their star players for chunks of this season and have scarcely missed a beat.

Seeing the line up and formation yesterday was dispiriting. Even without Grealish or particularly without Grealish we need a bit of tactical imagination that we seem to be lacking.

Nail and head here.  Look at the injuries Leicester have had this season (were without Barnes and Maddison yesterday) yet Rodgers has changed the shape/formation when different players have come in and they play as if it is no different every week. I would say that our squad is not that far off Leicesters for quality so it just needs more tactical awareness both on and off the pitch.  A couple of top class additions this summer and we would be level in quality with them.

I would say our squad is miles off Leicester's in terms of quality, which is no surprise given what each club has been doing for the last 5 years.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on March 22, 2021, 12:13:42 PM
Quote from: LeeB on March 22, 2021, 12:09:21 PM
Quote from: fredm on March 22, 2021, 11:51:24 AM
Quote from: Bobby Boy on March 22, 2021, 10:17:12 AM
Dean has done a fine job for us without question but his tactical rigidity and like-for-like substitutions seem to show a lack of imagination and tactical nous that you need to be a really top manager.

If you look at Leicester Brendan Rodgers is constantly tweaking styles and formations to get the best out of his teams. They have been without a number of their star players for chunks of this season and have scarcely missed a beat.

Seeing the line up and formation yesterday was dispiriting. Even without Grealish or particularly without Grealish we need a bit of tactical imagination that we seem to be lacking.

Nail and head here.  Look at the injuries Leicester have had this season (were without Barnes and Maddison yesterday) yet Rodgers has changed the shape/formation when different players have come in and they play as if it is no different every week. I would say that our squad is not that far off Leicesters for quality so it just needs more tactical awareness both on and off the pitch.  A couple of top class additions this summer and we would be level in quality with them.

I would say our squad is miles off Leicester's in terms of quality, which is no surprise given what each club has been doing for the last 5 years.

I'd say 10 years when their ownership changed. but I'd still agree about the quality, consistency and embedding of culture etc.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on March 22, 2021, 12:25:36 PM
Think with all the sobering stats thrown around the one point from losing positions gained all season is a really worrying one for me.

It was similar last season and yet with a much better team we're as bad if not worse at it this season.

It's the same when Jack is playing, why are we no good digging out draws and the odd win when we're one down with 30 minutes left? Watford game an example when we did it last season and that was a very crucial three points in the end. We were playing a team last night who've lost countless points from 1 up all season (lost to Arsenal from 1-0 7 days ago) so to me we will never become a top 6 team again if we don't sort that out as we got loads of points in the MON seasons coming back from 1 or 2 down on many occasions so that's a template.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on March 22, 2021, 12:32:54 PM
Quote from: Drummond on March 22, 2021, 11:29:39 AM
Quote from: brontebilly on March 22, 2021, 10:59:21 AM
Quote from: West Derby Villan on March 22, 2021, 10:27:53 AM
Quote from: Drummond on March 22, 2021, 08:38:52 AM
Our best player (one of the very best anywhere) is out. The player signed to help make a difference is out of form after his injury.

With those two in and firing, we're a completely different team. Our movement, ball retention and creativity are wanting at the moment and it puts pressure on others.

We're not on the best run but it's not about the quality of the manager, it's about the quality of the players we (don't) have.

Traore has gone off the boil. Trez works hard and whilst it works when there is creativity elsewhere in the side, it makes us look weaker when there isn't. AEG just isn't consistent enough yet.

Fully agree, every team has a dip during the season and should not be totally unexpected in this particularly strange season.

This isn't a dip though. We are playing some of the most turgid football seen since the days of Alex McLeish. Smith seems clueless as to what to do when Grealish is unavailable, that's going back to the day he joined the club not any recent development. In recent games, we have had Trez in the Grealish sized hole on our left flank with predictable results. Surely yesterday was the ideal day for tearing up the tactical script against a very vulnerable Spurs team. Not the same 433 rubbish with two horribly out of form wingers.

Any team suffers when a world-class player isn't available, unless they have other world-class players to replace them; that's not the fault of the manager it's just a plain and simple fact.

Yes, you can make adjustments to cope, but in reality that again comes down to the quality of the other players available to you. Barkley would have been seen as someone to add quality, and he did for a while. Other than that, we're short in that area and will no doubt be looking for additional resources.

And tearing up the tactical script and going for what? If you change it massively, you'll end up confusing the issue.

Long and short of it is that we're still improving. We're inconsistent but we are way better than we were. We will come back into form again, we'll improve again too.

So far Smith got us promoted a year early. Then he kept us up. This season we're safe with a dozen games to go and the very definition of a mid-table team. Next season we should be aiming for top 8, though that means overhauling a bunch of teams who have spent considerably more than we have, and had plenty of time to build.

Confusing what issue? Let's say 352 as an example, what's the worst that can happen. Mings plays on the left of a three for England, both our full backs should be fine further up. Konsa I'm sure could cope. It would mean a recall from cold storage for Engels alright but if we are going to flog him in the summer that would be no harm, put him in the middle. Maybe even go direct like Spurs did yesterday with two up top.

Anything to avoid playing with 2/3 of Trez, AEG and Traore on the wings is worth a go. Any team would miss a player of Jack's quality but that in itself is no excuse for the rubbish performances we are turning out.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on March 22, 2021, 12:50:13 PM
Quote from: brontebilly on March 22, 2021, 12:32:54 PM
Confusing what issue? Let's say 352 as an example, what's the worst that can happen. Mings plays on the left of a three for England, both our full backs should be fine further up. Konsa I'm sure could cope. It would mean a recall from cold storage for Engels alright but if we are going to flog him in the summer that would be no harm, put him in the middle. Maybe even go direct like Spurs did yesterday with two up top.
Anything to avoid playing with 2/3 of Trez, AEG and Traore on the wings is worth a go. Any team would miss a player of Jack's quality but that in itself is no excuse for the rubbish performances we are turning out.
I got roundly slammed by a few people round here for suggesting a 3-5-2 a few weeks' ago.  ;D
The logic is that we do not have good enough wingers and were getting over-run through the middle. With Cash and Targett, we have good WB's.
A MF 3 permed from JG, Luiz, Sanson, Ramsey and McGinn (depending on  the opposition and availability) and a front 2 of Watkins and Traore would give us more solidity and flexibility (with Barry or Ramsey Minor - when deemed good enough - offering options). The task in the summer would be to offload some deadwood and improve our CB options as well as getting cover for Targett. A world-class winger coming in would increase our tactical options.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on March 22, 2021, 12:55:29 PM
I think the system Mister E suggested would suit Traore as well. I'm not convinced about him playing out wide.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on March 22, 2021, 12:56:23 PM
Quote from: Mister E on March 22, 2021, 12:50:13 PM
Quote from: brontebilly on March 22, 2021, 12:32:54 PM
Confusing what issue? Let's say 352 as an example, what's the worst that can happen. Mings plays on the left of a three for England, both our full backs should be fine further up. Konsa I'm sure could cope. It would mean a recall from cold storage for Engels alright but if we are going to flog him in the summer that would be no harm, put him in the middle. Maybe even go direct like Spurs did yesterday with two up top.
Anything to avoid playing with 2/3 of Trez, AEG and Traore on the wings is worth a go. Any team would miss a player of Jack's quality but that in itself is no excuse for the rubbish performances we are turning out.
A world-class winger coming in would increase our tactical options.

Im hoping for two, move Jack too the 10 and spend whatever we'd have had to spend on Barkley plus another 30m on two quality winger's. Move Trezeguet on for whatever we can get.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on March 22, 2021, 01:15:12 PM
Quote from: Clampy on March 22, 2021, 12:55:29 PM
I think the system Mister E suggested would suit Traore as well. I'm not convinced about him playing out wide.

Agreed, he looks poorly scouted in all honesty for that right wing spot, can't believe he played as a wing back for Lyon! A complete liability in our half of the pitch. His best work is often in and around the opposition box, has a tidy turn, touch and shot.

Needs taking out of the side for his own good currently.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa for life on March 22, 2021, 01:21:55 PM
Given that we have one of the best goalkeepers in Europe, an England Central defender, another central defender who will surely be an England regular soon and who is desired by many of the top clubs. Add to this,  two decent full backs. Then we’ve got Mcginn who was once so good he was linked with Man U coupled with a Brazilian international. We are also lucky enough to have one of the best players in the Europe/world in Grealish and now a Centre forward who has just earned England recognition, is 10th -13th a fair reflection of where this team should sit?

10-13th is obviously a huge improvement on last year, but I’d argue that isn’t particularly impressive in itself as we’ve added Martinez, Traore, Cash and Watkins,  so one would expect a higher finish.

I suppose we, the fans, and more importantly certain players, who might be tempted to leave need to keep the faith. If we can add 2/3 quality players and then finish next season 5 places higher than this season, that’ll be progress. But if that looks unlikely to happen, Dean will be under pressure.

We’ve been bad for quite a while already, and if we have a poor end to the season, plus an underwhelming start to next season, that’ll be the equivalent of almost a season’s worth of playing well below par...hopefully, that scenario doesn’t unfold, and we turn it around next game.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: London Villan on March 22, 2021, 01:28:56 PM
One of the things that allowed us to catch teams out early in the season was them not quite knowing how we'd play - like adding Barkley to the mix. We are now totally predictable - even more so with Grealish out. The 3-5-2 option above is imaginative and plays to the strengths of the squad.

It would also be worthwhile interchanging Jack as a 10 or out wide with flat 3 in the middle - depending on who we are playing. It just keeps other teams guessing and makes us less predictable.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on March 22, 2021, 01:44:07 PM
Just try something other than the current lazy swapping of wide men and whatever centre mid had a nightmare last game. Show some nous, or imagination or the ability to change things on the fly.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on March 22, 2021, 01:48:56 PM
Obviously we did try 3 for a while last season and it went ok for a while until it didn't. But there were a couple of fundamental problems with it, namely Hause was blindingly unsuited to it as all three need to be comfortable on the ball. Mings was/is nowhere near good enough to be in the centre of the three as it only exposes his lack of a right foot. Think Engels might have played on the right of the three a bit, like when Shane Long made bits of his lack of pace. But all could be fixable with Engels in the centre and Konsa and Mings either side. Worth a shot anyway. Think bringing in someone like Tuanzebe in the summer could make this a more realistic option next season, he is very good with the ball and stepping into midfield.

Worth a shot v Fulham and free Jack up to play near Watkins.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on March 22, 2021, 01:51:30 PM
Quote from: London Villan on March 22, 2021, 01:28:56 PM
One of the things that allowed us to catch teams out early in the season was them not quite knowing how we'd play - like adding Barkley to the mix. We are now totally predictable...
That's the killer: the obvious predictability of our set-up. We've rightly moaned on here about our quality dropping since the CV-19 outbreak, but I think our decline is as least as much to do with teams preparing for us in the sure knowledge that we'll play a certain way - nullify Grealish and overload the midfield.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: exigo on March 22, 2021, 01:58:30 PM
There was a point in the game yesterday where the camera cut away to our bench. Shakespeare was vociferously making a point with his fingers, where a player could move to to create an advantage; O'Kelly shrugged his shoulders; Smith brought on Barkley for Sanson.

I really want us to get to the next level with Dean at the helm. But he's got to be braver, more imaginative. Otherwise he's going to get called out for being another Bruce, making the same subs at the same time with the same predictable outcome.

Watkins is getting no service at the moment, so for gods sake change it around up top to help him. Even start with Davis alongside him, so that the ball sticks. If your solution is Barkley, you're asking the wrong question.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on March 22, 2021, 02:18:37 PM
Quote from: villa for life on March 22, 2021, 01:21:55 PM
Given that we have one of the best goalkeepers in Europe, an England Central defender, another central defender who will surely be an England regular soon and who is desired by many of the top clubs. Add to this,  two decent full backs. Then we’ve got Mcginn who was once so good he was linked with Man U coupled with a Brazilian international. We are also lucky enough to have one of the best players in the Europe/world in Grealish and now a Centre forward who has just earned England recognition, is 10th -13th a fair reflection of where this team should sit?

10-13th is obviously a huge improvement on last year, but I’d argue that isn’t particularly impressive in itself as we’ve added Martinez, Traore, Cash and Watkins,  so one would expect a higher finish.

I suppose we, the fans, and more importantly certain players, who might be tempted to leave need to keep the faith. If we can add 2/3 quality players and then finish next season 5 places higher than this season, that’ll be progress. But if that looks unlikely to happen, Dean will be under pressure.

We’ve been bad for quite a while already, and if we have a poor end to the season, plus an underwhelming start to next season, that’ll be the equivalent of almost a season’s worth of playing well below par...hopefully, that scenario doesn’t unfold, and we turn it around next game.

Our defence has been posting top 5 stats pretty much all season. Our attack with Jack is comfortably top 10 although very much bottom 6 for last 5-6 games.

So even without taking into account whatever xG is saying today we've been a top half team all season in terms of output so 12/13th would be underachievement for what we've produced.

Mind you stats would also say Brighton should be 5th in the league so sometimes it's a little off reality as you can't measure stuff like mental toughness and resilience.

I assume we're 20th for points won when we're behind in games so loads of metrics out there to measure a season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 22, 2021, 02:19:32 PM
Quote from: exigo on March 22, 2021, 01:58:30 PM
There was a point in the game yesterday where the camera cut away to our bench. Shakespeare was vociferously making a point with his fingers, where a player could move to to create an advantage; O'Kelly shrugged his shoulders; Smith brought on Barkley for Sanson.

I really want us to get to the next level with Dean at the helm. But he's got to be braver, more imaginative. Otherwise he's going to get called out for being another Bruce, making the same subs at the same time with the same predictable outcome.

Watkins is getting no service at the moment, so for gods sake change it around up top to help him. Even start with Davis alongside him, so that the ball sticks. If your solution is Barkley, you're asking the wrong question.
His inflexibility and doggedly doing the same things even when they don't work is a very worrying trait.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on March 22, 2021, 02:42:38 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on March 21, 2021, 11:58:14 PM
I actually think Ollie can be a more productive forward if he’s not asked to run 20 miles per game. And that we have a legitimate alternative in the squad to share time with as you’re suggesting.

It’s just foolish yet again to have him on his own all game and not having signed another forward to help him.

I'd like to see us stop hoofing the ball up to him. Such a pointless exercise as even on the very rare occasion he manages to win the ball there's nobody near him to pass to and he ends up passing it back 30-35 yards.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on March 22, 2021, 03:55:24 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on March 22, 2021, 02:19:32 PM
Quote from: exigo on March 22, 2021, 01:58:30 PM
There was a point in the game yesterday where the camera cut away to our bench. Shakespeare was vociferously making a point with his fingers, where a player could move to to create an advantage; O'Kelly shrugged his shoulders; Smith brought on Barkley for Sanson.

I really want us to get to the next level with Dean at the helm. But he's got to be braver, more imaginative. Otherwise he's going to get called out for being another Bruce, making the same subs at the same time with the same predictable outcome.

Watkins is getting no service at the moment, so for gods sake change it around up top to help him. Even start with Davis alongside him, so that the ball sticks. If your solution is Barkley, you're asking the wrong question.
His inflexibility and doggedly doing the same things even when they don't work is a very worrying trait.


On the other hand, sticking to your beliefs and philosophy when you hit a bad spell is important, or you end up like Paul Lambert, and nobody listens to you anymore.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on March 22, 2021, 04:01:11 PM
Quote from: LeeB on March 22, 2021, 03:55:24 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on March 22, 2021, 02:19:32 PM
Quote from: exigo on March 22, 2021, 01:58:30 PM
There was a point in the game yesterday where the camera cut away to our bench. Shakespeare was vociferously making a point with his fingers, where a player could move to to create an advantage; O'Kelly shrugged his shoulders; Smith brought on Barkley for Sanson.

I really want us to get to the next level with Dean at the helm. But he's got to be braver, more imaginative. Otherwise he's going to get called out for being another Bruce, making the same subs at the same time with the same predictable outcome.

Watkins is getting no service at the moment, so for gods sake change it around up top to help him. Even start with Davis alongside him, so that the ball sticks. If your solution is Barkley, you're asking the wrong question.
His inflexibility and doggedly doing the same things even when they don't work is a very worrying trait.


On the other hand, sticking to your beliefs and philosophy when you hit a bad spell is important, or you end up like Paul Lambert, and nobody listens to you anymore.

There's surely something in the middle of Lambert at one extreme and Guardiola at the other?  Sticking to your beliefs is all very well when they work, but when they don't, they often lead to a manager and his P45 being prematurely introduced.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on March 22, 2021, 04:36:18 PM
Quote from: Risso on March 22, 2021, 04:01:11 PM
Quote from: LeeB on March 22, 2021, 03:55:24 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on March 22, 2021, 02:19:32 PM
Quote from: exigo on March 22, 2021, 01:58:30 PM
There was a point in the game yesterday where the camera cut away to our bench. Shakespeare was vociferously making a point with his fingers, where a player could move to to create an advantage; O'Kelly shrugged his shoulders; Smith brought on Barkley for Sanson.

I really want us to get to the next level with Dean at the helm. But he's got to be braver, more imaginative. Otherwise he's going to get called out for being another Bruce, making the same subs at the same time with the same predictable outcome.

Watkins is getting no service at the moment, so for gods sake change it around up top to help him. Even start with Davis alongside him, so that the ball sticks. If your solution is Barkley, you're asking the wrong question.
His inflexibility and doggedly doing the same things even when they don't work is a very worrying trait.


On the other hand, sticking to your beliefs and philosophy when you hit a bad spell is important, or you end up like Paul Lambert, and nobody listens to you anymore.

There's surely something in the middle of Lambert at one extreme and Guardiola at the other?  Sticking to your beliefs is all very well when they work, but when they don't, they often lead to a manager and his P45 being prematurely introduced.

Yes of course, the happy ground is somewhere in between. Lambert is the clearest example I could think of that flip flopped so much he just ended up looking like a clueless prick, which of course he is.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on March 22, 2021, 04:40:58 PM
Quote from: LeeB on March 22, 2021, 04:36:18 PM

Yes of course, the happy ground is somewhere in between. Lambert is the clearest example I could think of that flip flopped so much he just ended up looking like a clueless prick, which of course he is.

You didn't enjoy the tiki-taka after he came back from his pilgrimage to Germany?! David O'Leary was right, we are fi.....
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on March 22, 2021, 04:41:10 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on March 22, 2021, 02:42:38 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on March 21, 2021, 11:58:14 PM
I actually think Ollie can be a more productive forward if he’s not asked to run 20 miles per game. And that we have a legitimate alternative in the squad to share time with as you’re suggesting.

It’s just foolish yet again to have him on his own all game and not having signed another forward to help him.

I'd like to see us stop hoofing the ball up to him. Such a pointless exercise as even on the very rare occasion he manages to win the ball there's nobody near him to pass to and he ends up passing it back 30-35 yards.

I’ve just never understood that. I hated it when Bruce decided that the best way to use Hogan who is 5ft 9 or something was to whack long balls all game to him. It’s just as daft to constantly make Watkins do the same. And if there is one aspect of his game that isn’t particularly strong it’s holding up the ball because that’s just not his game. Play the ball on the deck and play in a tighter more unified structure so we have more players in the final third as opposed to one waiting for everyone else to arrive.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on March 22, 2021, 04:42:09 PM
Quote from: Risso on March 22, 2021, 04:40:58 PM
Quote from: LeeB on March 22, 2021, 04:36:18 PM

Yes of course, the happy ground is somewhere in between. Lambert is the clearest example I could think of that flip flopped so much he just ended up looking like a clueless prick, which of course he is.

You didn't enjoy the tiki-taka after he came back from his pilgrimage to Germany?! David O'Leary was right, we are fi.....

Stop acting so spoiled. He gave us the backwards goal kick didn’t he? Be grateful.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 22, 2021, 04:42:32 PM
we go a goal behind.
60 to 70 minutes swap under performing attacking wide player for  attacking wide player
70 to 80 minutes - swap under performing attacking midfield player for attacking midfield player.
80 to 90 minutes - Fuck it- where is  Keenan?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: exigo on March 22, 2021, 05:29:32 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on March 22, 2021, 04:42:32 PM
we go a goal behind.
60 to 70 minutes swap under performing attacking wide player for  attacking wide player
70 to 80 minutes - swap under performing attacking midfield player for attacking midfield player.
80 to 90 minutes - Fuck it- where is  Curtis?

I was livid yesterday when he took Sanson off for Barkley, shouting at the telly. I can only begin to imagine what the atmosphere would have been like with 40,000 in the ground in that moment.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Monty on March 22, 2021, 05:39:59 PM
It seems a bit obtuse to praise individual players in a defence as a way of criticising the manager. Famously - infamously - defending is a team effort every time, one impossible in the modern game without great coaching, and something we know for a nailed on fact that Smith's efforts in lockdown are the main impetus behind our improvement at the back. They're talented players, but it ways requires great coaching to make defenders look good.

I have a lot of criticisms of our attacking, but you cannot take away from Deano the defensive improvement. That'd be barmy.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on March 22, 2021, 06:30:35 PM
And the defence isn’t breaking down. They are just under pressure beyond what is reasonable caused by how inept we are at keeping the ball for any length of time and by the fact they have to keep clean sheets. Which at the best of times at this level is really hard to do. That’s before we toss in that wanker Harry Kane cheating to win a penalty.

This is one of the best defences we have had in a very long time at the club and the coaching staff should take a lot of credit for that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on March 22, 2021, 06:37:36 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on March 22, 2021, 04:42:32 PM
we go a goal behind.
60 to 70 minutes swap under performing attacking wide player for  attacking wide player
70 to 80 minutes - swap under performing attacking midfield player for attacking midfield player.
80 to 90 minutes - Fuck it- where is  Curtis?
Curtis? or Keinan?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: exigo on March 22, 2021, 07:01:54 PM
The defence is fantastic. They'd have far less to do if he can sort out our midfield next.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: London Villan on March 22, 2021, 07:06:32 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on March 22, 2021, 04:42:09 PM
Quote from: Risso on March 22, 2021, 04:40:58 PM
Quote from: LeeB on March 22, 2021, 04:36:18 PM

Yes of course, the happy ground is somewhere in between. Lambert is the clearest example I could think of that flip flopped so much he just ended up looking like a clueless prick, which of course he is.

You didn't enjoy the tiki-taka after he came back from his pilgrimage to Germany?! David O'Leary was right, we are fi.....

Stop acting so spoiled. He gave us the backwards goal kick didn’t he? Be grateful.
Quote from: Toronto Villa on March 22, 2021, 04:41:10 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on March 22, 2021, 02:42:38 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on March 21, 2021, 11:58:14 PM
I actually think Ollie can be a more productive forward if he’s not asked to run 20 miles per game. And that we have a legitimate alternative in the squad to share time with as you’re suggesting.

It’s just foolish yet again to have him on his own all game and not having signed another forward to help him.

I'd like to see us stop hoofing the ball up to him. Such a pointless exercise as even on the very rare occasion he manages to win the ball there's nobody near him to pass to and he ends up passing it back 30-35 yards.

I’ve just never understood that. I hated it when Bruce decided that the best way to use Hogan who is 5ft 9 or something was to whack long balls all game to him. It’s just as daft to constantly make Watkins do the same. And if there is one aspect of his game that isn’t particularly strong it’s holding up the ball because that’s just not his game. Play the ball on the deck and play in a tighter more unified structure so we have more players in the final third as opposed to one waiting for everyone else to arrive.

Isolated strikers has been a theme of ours for a good few years.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 22, 2021, 07:08:02 PM
Quote from: Mister E on March 22, 2021, 06:37:36 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on March 22, 2021, 04:42:32 PM
we go a goal behind.
60 to 70 minutes swap under performing attacking wide player for  attacking wide player
70 to 80 minutes - swap under performing attacking midfield player for attacking midfield player.
80 to 90 minutes - Fuck it- where is  Curtis?
Curtis? or Keinan?
thanks corrected.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Jon Crofts on March 23, 2021, 05:27:54 PM
Not sure this is the right place for these stats but here you go anyway.............
(https://i.ibb.co/MZRrJMV/164389741-10164841484020408-2123135542428557947-o.jpg) (https://ibb.co/MZRrJMV)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on March 23, 2021, 05:40:44 PM
Backs up what we see on a weekly basis.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OCD on March 23, 2021, 05:50:10 PM
Our goal was a penalty too.

By and large reflective of the league table and squad depth but surprising to see Man City so low.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chris Smith on March 23, 2021, 05:53:21 PM
Quote from: OCD on March 23, 2021, 05:50:10 PM
Our goal was a penalty too.

By and large reflective of the league table and squad depth but surprising to see Man City so low.

I think with Man City it just reflects the strength of their squad and that whoever starts they get the job done and they only need to make changes to give players a rest.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on March 23, 2021, 05:58:10 PM
It's no surprise that when you take a player off and bring a similar one on in the exact same position with the exact same instructions then nothing really changes. It's lazy substitutions.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: wittonwarrior on March 23, 2021, 06:36:28 PM
The improvement this season is there for all to see.  It  takes time  to build  Rome. We're not there yet will take another season or two.  I doubt there are many better managers out there to be honest
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 23, 2021, 06:55:50 PM
Quote from: wittonwarrior on March 23, 2021, 06:36:28 PM
The improvement this season is there for all to see.  It  takes time  to build  Rome. We're not there yet will take another season or two.  I doubt there are many better managers out there to be honest
It looks like there are plenty that are better at making substitutions.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on March 23, 2021, 07:11:03 PM
Quote from: aj2k77 on March 23, 2021, 05:58:10 PM
It's no surprise that when you take a player off and bring a similar one on in the exact same position with the exact same instructions then nothing really changes. It's lazy substitutions.

It's usually a complete waste of a sub. I'm not a fan of giving players another 10-15 mins after half time either when things are going badly wrong like they were for Traore in the first half on Sunday. Should be easier for a sub to get into the game if coming on earlier.

Deano has never been great on the sideline when it comes to subs or tactical changes. I think it's a key factor why we can't turn around losing situations during games. Seems to be a bit of disagreement on the sideline at times in the second half between Shakespeare and himself, I'm thinking it must be on the timing and types of changes.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on March 23, 2021, 08:16:23 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on March 23, 2021, 06:55:50 PM
Quote from: wittonwarrior on March 23, 2021, 06:36:28 PM
The improvement this season is there for all to see.  It  takes time  to build  Rome. We're not there yet will take another season or two.  I doubt there are many better managers out there to be honest
It looks like there are plenty that are better at making substitutions.

Or that have a deeper squad.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on March 23, 2021, 08:20:48 PM
Quote from: Drummond on March 23, 2021, 08:16:23 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on March 23, 2021, 06:55:50 PM
Quote from: wittonwarrior on March 23, 2021, 06:36:28 PM
The improvement this season is there for all to see.  It  takes time  to build  Rome. We're not there yet will take another season or two.  I doubt there are many better managers out there to be honest
It looks like there are plenty that are better at making substitutions.

Or that have a deeper squad.

Yes, clearly.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 23, 2021, 08:28:25 PM
So Sheffield Utd Fulham Southampton Newcastle Brighton etc have deeper squads,



And Olbiyon the same depth.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 23, 2021, 08:44:38 PM
I don’t think Dean needs to abandon his principles to change his tactical approach. Surely his principles are philosophical, as opposed to being wed to a particular tactical approach. Either way though the current tactical approach isn’t working in the main because there is no link between midfield and attack. Dean needs to do something to address that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Allan C on March 23, 2021, 08:58:31 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on March 23, 2021, 08:44:38 PM
I don’t think Dean needs to abandon his principles to change his tactical approach. Surely his principles are philosophical, as opposed to being wed to a particular tactical approach. Either way though the current tactical approach isn’t working in the main because there is no link between midfield and attack. Dean needs to do something to address that.
Like purchasing a new quality midfield with Grealish.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on March 23, 2021, 10:28:55 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on March 23, 2021, 08:28:25 PM
So Sheffield Utd Fulham Southampton Newcastle Brighton etc have deeper squads,



And Olbiyon the same depth.

The difference from first choice to replacement is starker with our squad. All of those teams are below us in the table. So I'd suggest that our first team are better.

Either that, or by your logic Smith must be much much better at picking teams and getting results to be above them all in the table by quite some distance?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chris Smith on March 23, 2021, 10:36:32 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on March 23, 2021, 08:28:25 PM
So Sheffield Utd Fulham Southampton Newcastle Brighton etc have deeper squads,



And Olbiyon the same depth.

And they’re all below is in the league.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 23, 2021, 10:45:35 PM
Crikey, a simple table shows how effective a manager is with subs. Smit is equal second worst.
We know he has gained 1 point from being a goal Down. We have seen that he does like for like subs to no effect.
 But somehow even the slightest suggestion that there might be a failing and the usual suspects rush in to his defence just like you did for Bruce.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on March 23, 2021, 10:51:35 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on March 23, 2021, 10:45:35 PM
Crikey, a simple table shows how effective a manager is with subs. Smit is equal second worst.
We know he has gained 1 point from being a goal Down. We have seen that he does like for like subs to no effect.
 But somehow even the slightest suggestion that there might be a failing and the usual suspects rush in to his defence just like you did for Bruce.

God forbid that anyone should disagree with you.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on March 24, 2021, 08:50:59 AM
I've no idea why the past Bruce argument keeps being brought up anyway, it's tedious. People are questioning Smith, some are happy with the job he is doing but feel there is room for improvement (like me) and people are happy with him full stop. It's a simple as that really.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on March 24, 2021, 09:19:51 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on March 23, 2021, 10:45:35 PM
Crikey, a simple table shows how effective a manager is with subs. Smit is equal second worst.
We know he has gained 1 point from being a goal Down. We have seen that he does like for like subs to no effect.
 But somehow even the slightest suggestion that there might be a failing and the usual suspects rush in to his defence just like you did for Bruce.

And even the slightest hint of something not going perfectly and you leap to criticise.

I'm giving reasons why I think it may be the case. I've suggested alternatives, like playing Davis centrally and that gets knocked back as Davis isn't good enough. Well he's the only other fit striker we have, and it's up top where changes generally need to be made to score goals.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on March 24, 2021, 09:21:53 AM
Quote from: Chris Smith on March 23, 2021, 10:36:32 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on March 23, 2021, 08:28:25 PM
So Sheffield Utd Fulham Southampton Newcastle Brighton etc have deeper squads,



And Olbiyon the same depth.

And they’re all below is in the league.

Quite!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chris Smith on March 24, 2021, 09:31:11 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on March 23, 2021, 10:45:35 PM
Crikey, a simple table shows how effective a manager is with subs. Smit is equal second worst.
We know he has gained 1 point from being a goal Down. We have seen that he does like for like subs to no effect.
 But somehow even the slightest suggestion that there might be a failing and the usual suspects rush in to his defence just like you did for Bruce.

I’m sure it’s not your intention but that reads like you want to tell us rather than discuss it.

We’re only in our second season in this division and so our squad is not as strong or deep, particularly in forward options, as we would like. It’s well documented how much rebuilding we had to do after promotion, largely as a result of the makeup of the squad Bruce and Xia left us with. Hopefully we will address that over forthcoming windows.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on March 24, 2021, 10:17:24 AM
There wasn't really any excuse for not getting another forward in. Smith said he was happy with the squad they had way before the end of the transfer window, so it looks like it was a deliberate decision. And a bad one.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on March 24, 2021, 10:27:31 AM
Maybe Traore was bought in to add to the striker role as well. It would be interesting to see him play it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on March 24, 2021, 10:29:45 AM
Quote from: Risso on March 24, 2021, 10:17:24 AM
There wasn't really any excuse for not getting another forward in. Smith said he was happy with the squad they had way before the end of the transfer window, so it looks like it was a deliberate decision. And a bad one.

It's not that easy to get another decent striker in when you've got someone else that's clearly first choice, it's a perennial problem for Spurs it seems.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hipkiss92 on March 24, 2021, 10:30:20 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on March 23, 2021, 10:45:35 PM
Crikey, a simple table shows how effective a manager is with subs. Smit is equal second worst.
We know he has gained 1 point from being a goal Down. We have seen that he does like for like subs to no effect.
 But somehow even the slightest suggestion that there might be a failing and the usual suspects rush in to his defence just like you did for Bruce.

Comparing Bruce and Smith is ridiculous in itself anyway.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on March 24, 2021, 10:31:59 AM
Quote from: hipkiss92 on March 24, 2021, 10:30:20 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on March 23, 2021, 10:45:35 PM
Crikey, a simple table shows how effective a manager is with subs. Smit is equal second worst.
We know he has gained 1 point from being a goal Down. We have seen that he does like for like subs to no effect.
 But somehow even the slightest suggestion that there might be a failing and the usual suspects rush in to his defence just like you did for Bruce.

Comparing Bruce and Smith is ridiculous in itself anyway.

They're both male, and they were both centre halves. That's about it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Exeter 77 on March 24, 2021, 10:35:08 AM
Quote from: hipkiss92 on March 24, 2021, 10:30:20 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on March 23, 2021, 10:45:35 PM
Crikey, a simple table shows how effective a manager is with subs. Smit is equal second worst.
We know he has gained 1 point from being a goal Down. We have seen that he does like for like subs to no effect.
 But somehow even the slightest suggestion that there might be a failing and the usual suspects rush in to his defence just like you did for Bruce.

Comparing Bruce and Smith is ridiculous in itself anyway.
The comparison to Bruce is a simple one really. With the same players available to both in 2018/19 Bruce took us to 13th in the Championship. Dean Smith got us to 5th and promoted.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on March 24, 2021, 10:39:57 AM
Quote from: Exeter 77 on March 24, 2021, 10:35:08 AM
Quote from: hipkiss92 on March 24, 2021, 10:30:20 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on March 23, 2021, 10:45:35 PM
Crikey, a simple table shows how effective a manager is with subs. Smit is equal second worst.
We know he has gained 1 point from being a goal Down. We have seen that he does like for like subs to no effect.
 But somehow even the slightest suggestion that there might be a failing and the usual suspects rush in to his defence just like you did for Bruce.

Comparing Bruce and Smith is ridiculous in itself anyway.
The comparison to Bruce is a simple one really. With the same players available to both in 2018/19 Bruce took us to 13th in the Championship. Dean Smith got us to 5th and promoted.

Ding ding! The correct answer.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: oldhill_avfc on March 24, 2021, 10:43:28 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on March 23, 2021, 08:28:25 PM
So Sheffield Utd Fulham Southampton Newcastle Brighton etc have deeper squads,



And Olbiyon the same depth.

Not so much deeper squads, but more that there isn't much difference between the quality of the starting 11 and those on the bench.

This could also be applied to the teams at the top of the table (subs and actual league table).

7 or 8 of our starting 11 are a class (or three) above the rest of the squad.  The bench is weak compared to the starting 11 so it's no surprise any changes dont usually make much difference.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: oldhill_avfc on March 24, 2021, 10:45:14 AM
Quote from: Risso on March 24, 2021, 10:17:24 AM
There wasn't really any excuse for not getting another forward in. Smith said he was happy with the squad they had way before the end of the transfer window, so it looks like it was a deliberate decision. And a bad one.

But it's not a lack of forwards that's at the heart of the slump is it?


Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on March 24, 2021, 10:54:25 AM
Quote from: Clampy on March 24, 2021, 10:27:31 AM
Maybe Traore was bought in to add to the striker role as well. It would be interesting to see him play it.

Strange he hasn't done it
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sid1964 on March 24, 2021, 11:01:12 AM
The only thing Bruce has over Smith is that he was a better centre half

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on March 24, 2021, 11:07:25 AM
Quote from: sid1964 on March 24, 2021, 11:01:12 AM
The only thing Bruce has over Smith is that he was a better centre half

And he looks more like a potato.

Ands let's face it, in life you're either a potato, or you aren't.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on March 24, 2021, 11:15:05 AM
Quote from: Exeter 77 on March 24, 2021, 10:35:08 AM
Quote from: hipkiss92 on March 24, 2021, 10:30:20 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on March 23, 2021, 10:45:35 PM
Crikey, a simple table shows how effective a manager is with subs. Smit is equal second worst.
We know he has gained 1 point from being a goal Down. We have seen that he does like for like subs to no effect.
 But somehow even the slightest suggestion that there might be a failing and the usual suspects rush in to his defence just like you did for Bruce.

Comparing Bruce and Smith is ridiculous in itself anyway.
The comparison to Bruce is a simple one really. With the same players available to both in 2018/19 Bruce took us to 13th in the Championship. Dean Smith got us to 5th and promoted.

The same players plus Mings and Hause.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on March 24, 2021, 11:27:21 AM
Quote from: Risso on March 24, 2021, 11:15:05 AM
Quote from: Exeter 77 on March 24, 2021, 10:35:08 AM
Quote from: hipkiss92 on March 24, 2021, 10:30:20 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on March 23, 2021, 10:45:35 PM
Crikey, a simple table shows how effective a manager is with subs. Smit is equal second worst.
We know he has gained 1 point from being a goal Down. We have seen that he does like for like subs to no effect.
 But somehow even the slightest suggestion that there might be a failing and the usual suspects rush in to his defence just like you did for Bruce.

Comparing Bruce and Smith is ridiculous in itself anyway.
The comparison to Bruce is a simple one really. With the same players available to both in 2018/19 Bruce took us to 13th in the Championship. Dean Smith got us to 5th and promoted.

The same players plus Mings and Hause.

....and a fit Jack Grealish, think we had slipped back to about 13th in the table before Jack came back and the 10 in a row surge kicked in

I think there are three camps on here. The Smith loyalists who aren't for turning no matter what, the fence sitters and the more revolutionary types who see Smith as riding on Grealish's coat tails.

Reminds me of a debate I watched about a United Ireland (shared island is the latest tag line, pity it's not somewhere more tropical) a few nights back!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on March 24, 2021, 11:30:36 AM
Quote from: brontebilly on March 24, 2021, 11:27:21 AM
I think there are three camps on here. The Smith loyalists who aren't for turning no matter what, the fence sitters and the more revolutionary types who see Smith as riding on Grealish's coat tails.


I'm on the fence leaning towards thinking we need somebody better, depending on how the rest of this season goes. I strongly suspect though, that the rest of the season is going to go badly in terms of results.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on March 24, 2021, 11:36:37 AM
Is it really a case of 'Smith loyalists who are not for turning no matter what' or just that they think he is doing a decent job and don't see the need for a change at the moment?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on March 24, 2021, 11:41:04 AM
Quote from: Clampy on March 24, 2021, 11:36:37 AM
Is it really a case of 'Smith loyalists who are not for turning no matter what' or just that they think he is doing a decent job and don't see the need for a change at the moment?

It's unnecessarily condescending and dismissive, both of other supporters and the manager.

Plus it's a load of shite.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on March 24, 2021, 11:42:06 AM
It's a case of the overwhelming majority being happy with Smith, concerns and grumbles existing as they always will. And a tiny minority of people on a very small website who do not reflect the match going fan, navel gazing.

H&V is a bit like Twitter promising Youth Quakes and huuuuuge Labour turn outs when it comes to Smith going. Then they get annihilated and take Putney. "Smith on the verge after Walford" coming up against Burnley New Years Day. 3 minutes in, 2500 people singing his name.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on March 24, 2021, 11:44:59 AM
Taking Putney would be a huge win for Dean Smith.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on March 24, 2021, 11:45:11 AM
Quote from: Risso on March 24, 2021, 11:30:36 AM
Quote from: brontebilly on March 24, 2021, 11:27:21 AM
I think there are three camps on here. The Smith loyalists who aren't for turning no matter what, the fence sitters and the more revolutionary types who see Smith as riding on Grealish's coat tails.


I'm on the fence leaning towards thinking we need somebody better, depending on how the rest of this season goes. I strongly suspect though, that the rest of the season is going to go badly in terms of results.

I'm the same...hoping Grealish's return will prompt a marked improvement certainly in terms of performances until season end, mind. Of late, we have been rancid to watch and that simply can't be allowed to continue (and wouldn't be at a packed Villa Park). Very important break for Smith now to get things back on track.

From a hard nosed business perspective, on the merits of 38 games last season, I thought Smith was quite fortunate to get another season. Yes we survived but he was a goner pre covid and we had a lot of luck on the run in (Watford changing coach, the fake goal etc). 35 points and a -27 goal difference were surely below what most of us here were expecting.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on March 24, 2021, 11:46:33 AM
We've done a bit more than survived.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on March 24, 2021, 11:51:05 AM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on March 24, 2021, 11:44:59 AM
Taking Putney would be a huge win for Dean Smith.

Putney is not the prize it once was, the closure of the Hammersmith Bridge has seen to that. I'm sure Boris is doing his best to get it open again.

He should go for Harrow East instead.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on March 24, 2021, 12:02:07 PM
Quote from: Allan C on March 23, 2021, 08:58:31 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on March 23, 2021, 08:44:38 PM
I don’t think Dean needs to abandon his principles to change his tactical approach. Surely his principles are philosophical, as opposed to being wed to a particular tactical approach. Either way though the current tactical approach isn’t working in the main because there is no link between midfield and attack. Dean needs to do something to address that.
Like purchasing a new quality midfield with Grealish.

If that were the case you'd have to ask how come the existing midfield were brilliant up to the end of December. If you read Dean's post match comments at the weekend, he points out that some players are failing to reach their previous levels but the problems and lack of form started back when Grealish was still in the team. I really admire his honesty and glad he sees what most have noticed this year.

What concerns me and as Paul pointed out above is the tactical approach. It's not working. There are very few signs of it working. All the great work made in the first half of the season is circling around the plug hole. The complete lack of an alternative tactical approach is worrying. Buying a new midfield isn't going to hide the fact we're failing to resolve basic tactical problems. The substitutions is a distraction from the real issue and whilst it would be unfair to compare Dean with Bielsa, every manager is expected to work with and bring out the best of his players no matter who they are.

On that note, it's frustrating to see so many players who we know can play so much better struggling week in, week out. It's turning out to be a season of two halves. Both players and manager need to raise their game between now and the end of the season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on March 24, 2021, 12:02:10 PM
Quote from: Clampy on March 24, 2021, 11:36:37 AM
Is it really a case of 'Smith loyalists who are not for turning no matter what' or just that they think he is doing a decent job and don't see the need for a change at the moment?

I think there is a decent number on here that at one point last season were backing Smith as the best man to take us back to the prem when relegation seemed inevitable. I'm not in any way trying to dismiss this view but these are the loyalists I'm referring to.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OCD on March 24, 2021, 12:02:25 PM
Every game is magnified and scrutinised in normal conditions but when we're all in lockdown and other forms of distraction aren't available, it's just intensified it more. Then we get a poor run of form and it just feels very painful and we find people to blame for it.

If you zoom out, you can see really good progress over the past couple of years. The problems are patently obvious and hopefully can be fixed in the summer. We've got fantastic financial support and players who weren't interested in joining us last year because they thought we would be in a relegation fight will have a more positive image of us now and will see us as a side who will be at the other end of the season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: West Derby Villan on March 24, 2021, 12:05:01 PM
Quote from: Clampy on March 24, 2021, 11:36:37 AM
Is it really a case of 'Smith loyalists who are not for turning no matter what' or just that they think he is doing a decent job and don't see the need for a change at the moment?

Smith has ticked every “season” requirement since he’s been in charge. Every manager has had blips this season, Mourino, Klopp and even Pep!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on March 24, 2021, 12:07:10 PM
Quote from: brontebilly on March 24, 2021, 12:02:10 PM
Quote from: Clampy on March 24, 2021, 11:36:37 AM
Is it really a case of 'Smith loyalists who are not for turning no matter what' or just that they think he is doing a decent job and don't see the need for a change at the moment?

I think there is a decent number on here that at one point last season were backing Smith as the best man to take us back to the prem when relegation seemed inevitable. I'm not in any way trying to dismiss this view but these are the loyalists I'm referring to.

Those aren't loyalists, they're lunatics.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on March 24, 2021, 12:24:11 PM
Instead of saying loyalist, can’t you say realists?

At that start of last season the remit was to stay up, which would have included lots of relegation material along the way. We did just that and we stayed up.

This season we have added to a squad with players which in this league is relatively cheap, we’re mid table which is about right. There is room for improvement in the first eleven and squad, also Smith does need to keep learning as well, he’s been outwitted by some managers but also done the same to others.

He’s doing a grand job so far.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on March 24, 2021, 12:33:19 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on March 24, 2021, 12:07:10 PM
Quote from: brontebilly on March 24, 2021, 12:02:10 PM
Quote from: Clampy on March 24, 2021, 11:36:37 AM
Is it really a case of 'Smith loyalists who are not for turning no matter what' or just that they think he is doing a decent job and don't see the need for a change at the moment?

I think there is a decent number on here that at one point last season were backing Smith as the best man to take us back to the prem when relegation seemed inevitable. I'm not in any way trying to dismiss this view but these are the loyalists I'm referring to.

Those aren't loyalists, they're lunatics.


Thank you for letting us know your opinion of many supporters, myself included.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on March 24, 2021, 12:42:02 PM
We're going over old territory here but by that definition I'm a lunatic. Full on Screaming Lord Sutch, 3rd Earl of Harrow style.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Moonraker on March 24, 2021, 01:11:04 PM
Another lunatic here. We are on a poor run which every team has had this season, and every teams poor run seems to have been a deeper trough than previous seasons. Ours has been worse since covid break - coincidence or not. I would hope to be higher up the table at the end of the season, but if we remain where we are, I will not feel at all let down. The graph has been going up since Dean arrived.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 24, 2021, 01:30:49 PM
Quote from: hipkiss92 on March 24, 2021, 10:30:20 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on March 23, 2021, 10:45:35 PM
Crikey, a simple table shows how effective a manager is with subs. Smit is equal second worst.
We know he has gained 1 point from being a goal Down. We have seen that he does like for like subs to no effect.
 But somehow even the slightest suggestion that there might be a failing and the usual suspects rush in to his defence just like you did for Bruce.

Comparing Bruce and Smith is ridiculous in itself anyway.
Agree.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Allan C on March 24, 2021, 01:46:58 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on March 24, 2021, 12:02:07 PM
Quote from: Allan C on March 23, 2021, 08:58:31 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on March 23, 2021, 08:44:38 PM
I don’t think Dean needs to abandon his principles to change his tactical approach. Surely his principles are philosophical, as opposed to being wed to a particular tactical approach. Either way though the current tactical approach isn’t working in the main because there is no link between midfield and attack. Dean needs to do something to address that.
Like purchasing a new quality midfield with Grealish.

If that were the case you'd have to ask how come the existing midfield were brilliant up to the end of December. If you read Dean's post match comments at the weekend, he points out that some players are failing to reach their previous levels but the problems and lack of form started back when Grealish was still in the team. I really admire his honesty and glad he sees what most have noticed this year.

What concerns me and as Paul pointed out above is the tactical approach. It's not working. There are very few signs of it working. All the great work made in the first half of the season is circling around the plug hole. The complete lack of an alternative tactical approach is worrying. Buying a new midfield isn't going to hide the fact we're failing to resolve basic tactical problems. The substitutions is a distraction from the real issue and whilst it would be unfair to compare Dean with Bielsa, every manager is expected to work with and bring out the best of his players no matter who they are.

On that note, it's frustrating to see so many players who we know can play so much better struggling week in, week out. It's turning out to be a season of two halves. Both players and manager need to raise their game between now and the end of the season.
If we are to continue to progress (and I think we are) then we need a higher quality squad built around Grealish. I take the point about our tactics but the players we have currently must be able to carry them out. We tried to address the quality issue with Barkley and, despite what others post, it worked initially. If you take out two of your quality players (Grealish and Barkley) when the back up is not of the same quality, you’ve got problems. That is where we are now. IMO AEG, Trez and possibly McGinn have reached their limit. They’ve done what they were bought for, got us here looking safe and playing mostly good football. Everyone else above us will strengthen with quality and we must do the same
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 24, 2021, 02:05:50 PM
I am a fence sitter, want Smith to be successful but have lingering concerns about poor game management and As each week goes by it gets more difficult to dispute the one man team accusation.
The stats appear to reflect these issues.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on March 24, 2021, 02:11:34 PM
When you have a player like Grealish you'd be mad not to build the team around him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 24, 2021, 02:13:06 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on March 24, 2021, 02:11:34 PM
When you have a player like Grealish you'd be mad not to build the team around him.
and you also need to be able to cope when he is inevitably not available.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chris Smith on March 24, 2021, 02:22:39 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on March 24, 2021, 02:13:06 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on March 24, 2021, 02:11:34 PM
When you have a player like Grealish you'd be mad not to build the team around him.
and you also need to be able to cope when he is inevitably not available.

Absolutely, we’ve tried a few things but they haven’t worked as well as we’d hoped. If Barkley, Traore, Trezuguet or El Ghazi had been able to step up then the problem would have been eased but unfortunately they have all lacked consistency.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on March 24, 2021, 02:25:19 PM
We're not yet in a position to have several of the world's best players. We only have one.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on March 24, 2021, 02:36:46 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on March 24, 2021, 02:25:19 PM
We're not yet in a position to have several of the world's best players. We only have one.

Two.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TelfordVilla on March 24, 2021, 02:39:33 PM
Not sure what dean Smith is supposed to do about the drop off in quality if jack doesnt play. Unless he perhaps signed another jack to sit on the bench in case jack got injured. Then he would be criticised for not playing the 2nd jack from the start. At least it would improve our substitution stats if he brought on jack2 a few times instead of trex or elgoalsie.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: oldhill_avfc on March 24, 2021, 02:58:20 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on March 24, 2021, 02:36:46 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on March 24, 2021, 02:25:19 PM
We're not yet in a position to have several of the world's best players. We only have one.

Two.

Three (one to be discovered by Southgate et al)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: JuanMartinez on March 24, 2021, 03:02:44 PM
Based on form and stats to back it up on this season, both Martinez and Jack would get in most if not all top sides in world.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on March 24, 2021, 03:51:47 PM
True.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on March 24, 2021, 04:12:30 PM
Emi still has some weaknesses but there's no doubting he's been brilliant for us. When you think of the amount of average to dodgy keepers we've had since relegation. Gollini and Jed probably the only two worth sticking with. Heaton was unlucky but ultimately he's been very expensive for what he'll have ended up costing us relative to output.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on March 24, 2021, 04:43:55 PM
Quote from: TelfordVilla on March 24, 2021, 02:39:33 PM
Not sure what dean Smith is supposed to do about the drop off in quality if jack doesnt play.

The same thing Dean should do with the drop in quality when Jack does play. As Dean said Sunday night, our recent poor form started with Jack in the team.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on March 24, 2021, 05:53:27 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on March 24, 2021, 04:43:55 PM
Quote from: TelfordVilla on March 24, 2021, 02:39:33 PM
Not sure what dean Smith is supposed to do about the drop off in quality if jack doesnt play.

The same thing Dean should do with the drop in quality when Jack does play. As Dean said Sunday night, our recent poor form started with Jack in the team.

Our form wasn’t great before Jack went missing, which is true, he was also lacking the same form form Before the Covid break. Not sure why, maybe he was suffering with this injury then.

When he’s not firing, heavily marked or missing is a massive problem we need to fix this summer. A few have already said that the loan of Barkley was that player, it’s turned out he’s nowhere near consistent enough, not just that I’d actually hope for far better option than him this summer.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on March 24, 2021, 05:54:03 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on March 24, 2021, 04:43:55 PM
Quote from: TelfordVilla on March 24, 2021, 02:39:33 PM
Not sure what dean Smith is supposed to do about the drop off in quality if jack doesnt play.

The same thing Dean should do with the drop in quality when Jack does play. As Dean said Sunday night, our recent poor form started with Jack in the team.

Was only that Brighton game really where Jack was genuinely poor (post covid) and probably impacted by injury. He was well held v West Ham (with them playing two right backs) until he switched late on and set up a goal within a few minutes. Smith surely needs to take quite a bit of the blame there for not changing sooner. Not sure I'm buying the narrative that he hasn't been at his best post the covid break. Thought against Burnley for example it was one of his best games for the club and he was our best player by eons at Southampton.

I think the main reason for the lack of form since that Burnley game is our midfield two or three have been outplayed in every game. Luiz's form in particular has fallen off a cliff.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on March 24, 2021, 05:56:05 PM
Quote from: Ian. on March 24, 2021, 05:53:27 PM
Our form wasn’t great before Jack went missing, which is true, he was also lacking the same form form Before the Covid break. Not sure why, maybe he was suffering with this injury then.
When he’s not firing, heavily marked or missing is a massive problem we need to fix this summer. A few have already said that the loan of Barkley was that player, it’s turned out he’s nowhere near consistent enough, not just that I’d actually hope for far better option than him this summer.
Fully agreed, Ian.
We have to provide our opposition with more to think about in every game; so that they are unable to plant 3 people on JG.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on March 24, 2021, 05:58:07 PM
Quote from: brontebilly on March 24, 2021, 05:54:03 PM

Was only that Brighton game really where Jack was genuinely poor (post covid) and probably impacted by injury. He was well held v West Ham (with them playing two right backs) until he switched late on and set up a goal within a few minutes. Smith surely needs to take quite a bit of the blame there for not changing sooner. Not sure I'm buying the narrative that he hasn't been at his best post the covid break. Thought against Burnley for example it was one of his best games for the club and he was our best player by eons at Southampton.
I think the main reason for the lack of form since that Burnley game is our midfield two or three have been outplayed in every game. Luiz's form in particular has fallen off a cliff.
This relates to our insistence on playing mediocre* wingers; doesn't it?




*  Edit: may be a strong word; inconsistent, perhaps
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on March 24, 2021, 07:17:53 PM
Quote from: Drummond on March 24, 2021, 12:42:02 PM
We're going over old territory here but by that definition I'm a lunatic. Full on Screaming Lord Sutch, 3rd Earl of Harrow style.
Remind of me of the environment you work in ......
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 24, 2021, 09:16:12 PM
Quote from: Chris Smith on March 24, 2021, 02:22:39 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on March 24, 2021, 02:13:06 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on March 24, 2021, 02:11:34 PM
When you have a player like Grealish you'd be mad not to build the team around him.
and you also need to be able to cope when he is inevitably not available.

Absolutely, we’ve tried a few things but they haven’t worked as well as we’d hoped. If Barkley, Traore, Trezuguet or El Ghazi had been able to step up then the problem would have been eased but unfortunately they have all lacked consistency.
all we have tried is different personnel in exactly the same system.
A system that appears to be dependant on Jack’s availability.
We have taken 5 points from the last 6 games which is relegation form and suggests that the difference between success and failure is determined by wether Jack is available or not.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on March 24, 2021, 10:13:44 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on March 24, 2021, 07:17:53 PM
Quote from: Drummond on March 24, 2021, 12:42:02 PM
We're going over old territory here but by that definition I'm a lunatic. Full on Screaming Lord Sutch, 3rd Earl of Harrow style.
Remind of me of the environment you work in ......

?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on March 24, 2021, 11:50:15 PM
Social care ?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: JuanMartinez on March 25, 2021, 02:08:26 AM
Back on topic, DS must be extremely proud of Ollie this evening especially if he gets game time.

Well done both.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on March 25, 2021, 09:18:30 PM

Not related directly to Dean but this article from The Athletic is a great insight into how it is being a manager in the modern game. It's a sub-only website so I can't just paste the link. It's a long 'un (so, don't quote the bugger!) but worth the 10-15 minutes reading time if you have it spare. Oddly, by the end, it made me feel very sorry for Steve Bruce of all people/managers:


Quote

Manager burnout: Brutal truths about alcohol, ‘dreading’ matches and the ‘relief’ of being sacked

Stuart James 

“You kind of know when you’re not cut out to be a manager…” Niall Quinn says, the little chuckle as his voice trails off a hint that there is an anecdote to come. “I knew a few minutes into a game at Bury that this wasn’t for me.”

Quinn is recalling his brief and largely forgettable six-match stint in the Sunderland job, which included five successive defeats and ended with him praising “a good decision from the chairman to sack his manager”. That chairman was also Quinn, who had agreed to take on both roles at the start of the 2006-07 Championship season after a problematic search for a new manager.

It sounded tricky in theory and was even harder in practice. A League Cup tie at Gigg Lane, where Sunderland lost 2-0 to their fourth division hosts, proved to be the final straw and led to Roy Keane taking over the following week, two days after Quinn registered his one and only victory against West Brom.


Quinn takes in the win over West Brom, after which he resigned, never to return to management (Photo: Matthew Lewis/Getty Images)
“For a few days before the Bury game we changed things around and got a young Spanish player, Arnau Riera, in on a free transfer,” Quinn explains. “He played in the same youth team at Barcelona as Iniesta and Messi, and we thought we would unleash him.

“It was difficult at Bury — you had to go out the dressing rooms, up the stairs and back down to where I needed to be (on the touchline to watch the game). By the time I got there, Riera’s running across the pitch. I’m looking at him, going, ‘What’s up with him? Is he going to the toilet or something?’ The nearest person to me said, ‘He’s just been sent off, gaffer’.

“He’d swung an elbow at somebody and got sent off before I’d taken my place in the dugout. I actually do remember looking up (to the heavens) and thinking, ‘You don’t want me to do this, do you?’”

With experience of life on the touchline as well as in the boardroom, not to mention an impressive playing career for club and country, Quinn has a fairly unique perspective when it comes to football management and the all-consuming nature of a role that he describes as “the toughest gig in the world”.

Keeping a lid on the pressure is easier said than done.

“I can’t do this bollocks any more,” Chris Wilder said out loud to himself after a 2-0 loss to Crystal Palace meant Sheffield United hadn’t won any of their first 17 Premier League games this season. A couple of months later, amid growing tension with the board at Bramall Lane, Wilder became another statistic — one of 41 managerial changes across the 92 Premier League and EFL clubs this season.

Was he burnt out? Only Wilder can really answer that question but the combination of poor results across a season, the imminent threat of relegation and a clear sense that the owner is not on the same page would wear down most managers.

Wilder, almost certainly, will be back in someone’s dugout somewhere. Others, such as Ricky Sbragia, never contemplate returning.

Appointed on an 18-month contract the previous December after impressing in a caretaker capacity following Keane’s resignation, Sbragia kept Sunderland in the Premier League on the final day of the 2008-09 season, despite losing 3-2 at home against Chelsea. Quinn, who was still chairman, wasn’t prepared for what happened next.

“I met Ricky for a cold beer in a room on our own, straight after he came out the dressing room,” Quinn says. “I said, ‘Listen…’ And he went, ‘No, I’m going to start this conversation. I’ve had enough. It’s not for me. And before you sack me, I’m leaving’. I said, ‘I’m not going to sack you, I’m going to talk to you about it’. Ricky never went back into management again.”

When Sbragia, who had been a youth and reserves coach at clubs including Manchester United then an assistant at Bolton and Sunderland, reflects on that experience now it is clear he was way outside his comfort zone: “I don’t know how people got my mobile number. But the first time I took over the job I got 168 calls, people asking me about players, agents saying, ‘I’ve got the best player in the world’. I thought, ‘Oh my god’. But then you also take that home with you. You don’t have a social life. You just wanted to switch off from football for an hour. But you couldn’t. You just couldn’t do that.”

Quinn and Sbragia were among half a dozen people willing to talk candidly to The Athletic about the mental and physical demands of managing a football club and how it can take its toll. We have even spoken to a manager’s wife and son, to get their take on a job that feels as though it should come with a health warning.

Only this week Cesare Prandelli, the former Italy coach, stepped down at Fiorentina after admitting a “dark cloud” has developed inside him. Aged 63, Prandelli said that he was going through “a period of profound distress which is preventing me from being who I really am”.

The fact that the League Managers Association (LMA) provides all its members with annual medical checks as well as confidential access to a team of in-house consultant psychiatrists and clinical psychologists, who can be contacted 365 days a year, says much about the nature of the industry these people are working in.

It is a precarious profession for anyone, but particularly for those first dipping their toe in the water.

According to the LMA, since the start of the 2012-13 season, 59 per cent of first-time managers have not been re-appointed in the top four tiers of English football or the equivalent leagues overseas. To put that another way, six out of every 10 new managers will only get to do the job for a living once.

Even for the more experienced, the sense of responsibility can easily become a burden. Brian McDermott talks about how he ended up “medicating” himself after falling into a well of darkness in the wake of Reading’s Championship play-off final loss to Swansea a decade ago. Feeling desperately low, McDermott put on a brave face at work for the best part of a year and somehow — and this is testament to his unwavering commitment to the job — won promotion to the Premier League in 2012 as champions.

It is interesting to hear Garry Monk, who lost his job at Sheffield Wednesday in November then saw successor Tony Pulis last little over a month, explain that relief is often one of the first emotions that managers feel after being sacked.

“It’s not that you’re happy with what just happened,” he says. “But it’s like the relief of… ‘I don’t have to wake up tomorrow and go and try to convince 50-60 people that working hard is the best thing that they should be doing’.”

His voice is quiet and measured but there is a deep sincerity to everything that Brian McDermott says about football management.

“You never know what it’s like to be a manager until you’ve stood on that line. And you never know whether you can do it until you’ve stood on that line. It’s an incredibly intense job,” he explains.

“That feeling when it’s 1-0 to you and the whistle goes — the feeling of relief. And that feeling of emptiness when you’re 1-0 down and the whistle goes and you know your weekend is completely and utterly ruined, and the next couple of days after that, until the next game.”

Now aged 59, McDermott has managed more than 450 games, all the way from the Conference to the Premier League, including two spells at Reading and a stint at Leeds. The first match he mentions, though — the match he cannot forget — is one that caused him so much anguish. “To lose a play-off final… you could do a whole story on that,” McDermott says.

McDermott took that 4-2 defeat against Brendan Rodgers’ Swansea in 2011 personally. The overwhelming feeling that he struggled to erase from his mind over the weeks and months that followed was about “letting so many people down” at Wembley on that May afternoon. Alcohol, he says, became “a way of dealing with stuff”.

“I used to drink after games. A lot of managers do. I can’t talk for anybody else, but after a game when you lost it was like, ‘I could do with a drink’, because it does hurt. You know yourself, you have a drink and you medicate yourself, really, which is not a good thing. But after the Wembley final, I probably crossed over a little bit of a red line.

“I’ve not had a drink for six years now. So I feel good about that. I’m in a calm and peaceful place with myself in my life.”

Although McDermott is one of those people who has always gone about his work with the minimum of fuss, it seems remarkable to think that he led Reading to the Championship title the following season despite feeling so low that he admits it was hard to get out of bed at times. The only other person who knew what he was going through, he says, was his wife.

He must have done a good job of hiding how he was feeling? “I did,” McDermott replies. “I was struggling. But if you ask people who were around me at the time if I was struggling, I don’t think they would have known. I used to drive in to work and say (to myself), ‘Come on!’ I had to get myself going.

“It was quite a dark place at the time. That’s how it was for me and I just thought it was normal. I thought that’s how you’re supposed to feel — ‘I lost a massive game, I’m in a dark place, I’m sure it’ll be alright one day’. I just had to keep going, really. In my mind, I had a vision of trying to get promotion the following year but whether I could do it or not… I just took it bite-size, one training session at a time.”

McDermott did do it. Reading won 15 out of 17 matches at one stage during the second half of the season, losing only once, and were crowned champions, despite having sold their top scorer Shane Long and captain Matt Mills the previous summer after that play-off final defeat. The mistake that many people would make, however, is to assume that success suddenly put everything right for McDermott.

“If you think that some external stuff is going to fix you, like a promotion or being a Premier League manager, that wasn’t my story,” he says. “Great, we won the league. I was so pleased for the players and the supporters and the staff. But I never felt that for myself. It wasn’t about euphoria. It was just relief — ‘Finally, we’ve done it’.”

It sounds as though Sbragia can relate to certain aspects of McDermott’s story.

Sbragia talks about a March 2009 game against Tottenham at the Stadium of Light, when Sunderland had led 1-0 from the third minute, and were desperate for three points to ease their relegation fears, only to concede an 89th-minute Robbie Keane equaliser. That it came about from a Sunderland corner, when players had totally switched off, made it hard for Sbragia to accept. How can a manager legislate for that kind of thing?

“I thought, ‘I can’t go through this again’. I was dreading the next matches,” Sbragia says.

“One of my main things was, I’d been to Sunderland previously, from 1994-2002, before I went to Man United (as reserve-team manager), so I knew all the office staff, all the people that worked there, and my main thought was if we had gone down that year, over 30 per cent of people would lose their jobs — and that’s actually in my head: ‘It’s all down to me, we’ve got to stay up’.”

Sbragia sighs as he thinks back. “It came to a stage where I thought, ‘This is absolutely ridiculous’. My health suffered because of it. Mentally, I was tired. Physically, I was knackered. I put a wee bit of weight on. I was drinking a lot, but not to excess. I became unsociable at home, a bit narky. I’d never been like that as a coach.

“I came in and still thought about football, what we were doing the following day and the meetings we had. I thought, ‘I can’t keep doing this’.”

“The physical and mental wellbeing of our members is of paramount importance to the LMA. Any sign of burnout, which could lead to severe health issues, should be addressed immediately by the individual, an employer (if applicable) and the LMA,” Richard Bevan, the LMA’s chief executive, tells The Athletic in an email exchange.

Niall Quinn pauses for a moment as he thinks about managerial burnout and the people he has seen over the years who appear totally worn down by the job.

“It’s the toughest gig in the world,” Quinn says. “Nobody looked worse than Fergie (Sir Alex Ferguson at United) in the early years. You look back at him, at the nervousness, the anger and the frustration, and for all the world he looked out. And he turned it around. So I always hark back to that.”

Quinn quickly adds a caveat. “Since those times, the pressure cooker has become 100 times hotter. The scrutiny is incredible. The media is intense, the online world magnifies it — there’s no hiding place at all. You dedicate your life to this. If you’re good, it’s fine. But if you’re trying to build something that’s struggling, and your star is fading, it’s a horrible place to be. That’s why TV is the best graveyard for football people — you can rekindle, start enjoying life and looking at football differently.

“I went back to that after Sunderland (he left the club in 2012). You might be getting a bit of stick on Twitter every now and then because you said something wrong, but that compared to the pressure of being a football manager is night and day. So I respect the managers who do it. They need to be confident. That confidence can look out of place when results don’t go well. You see others who panic.

“It never interested me, even though I got a sniff of it. Not because I was afraid of it. I was actually a little bit smarter than that for most of my life, to say, ‘I don’t think I’d be good under those pressurised circumstances’. I found myself wanting to pin players up against the wall in those first few days. And had it been player to player, in those days I probably could have done. But as a manager, I couldn’t. And the game has changed. I was brought up old-fashioned and I’m not so sure I could handle the holistic way of football coaching these days. I’m really one of the old brigade.”

At 42, Garry Monk is 12 years younger than Quinn. He has been managing since February 2014, when he started in the Premier League with Swansea, leading the club he’d played for over the previous decade (he was captain the day they beat McDermott’s Reading at Wembley) to an eighth-place finish in his first full season.

The opening game of that 2014-15 campaign was away at Old Trafford. It was also Louis van Gaal’s first match in charge of Manchester United.

“We won 2-1,” Monk says, smiling at what he is about to say next. “I went to shake his hand and I don’t think Van Gaal really knew I was the manager. You know when someone looks at you as if, ‘Well done, mate… whoever you are’, probably thinking I was one of the security staff at Swansea. I swear on my life, just from the look he gave me, I thought, ‘He doesn’t even know who I am!’”


Monk felt Van Gaal had little idea who he was, but he has faced far more stressful moments in management (Getty Images)
Van Gaal was in demand that afternoon. Monk remembers there being 27 overseas broadcasters, each waiting in turn for their interview with the new United manager.

While that level of media interest comes with the territory at the highest level, it is easy to imagine how tedious the process can become for a manager who has suffered another defeat and is going through a bad spell. Perhaps that provides some context, if not an excuse, for Liverpool’s Jurgen Klopp losing his rag a few times this season.

As for Monk, he led Swansea to their highest ever Premier League finish that season, but was out of a job by the following Christmas, after a poor run of results and amid weeks of speculation about his future. Dealing with that media coverage can be emotionally draining in itself. “Even if you’re shutting out the noise, which I’m good at, your family is listening to it,” Monk says. “So you can’t really get away from it. It’s constantly there.”

Monk has lived something of a nomadic existence since leaving Swansea, taking jobs at Leeds (one season), Middlesbrough (six months), Birmingham City (15 months) and Sheffield Wednesday (14 months). Lexi, his wife, and their three children have moved around Britain with him and, inevitably, that has a knock-on effect.

“When your kids have gone to six or seven different schools, when you’ve moved house, from my own experience year upon year, different areas of the country and with young kids, no settled life — we haven’t got a base; we own a home in Birmingham, but are we going to spend the rest of our lives here? No. It’s been seven years now managing. I said to Lex the other day, ‘Jesus Christ, where are we heading? Where are we going?’ You do think, ‘What is the end game here, what am I doing this all for?’”

It is a good question for any manager to ask themselves.

With Monk, it seems safe to assume that he has done well enough over the years for money not to be a motivation. So why does he carry on?

“Something deep inside you drags you back,” he says. “I think you just want to prove a point. I did that from a schoolboy at Watford to even now. And there are personal goals of my own. I was lucky as a player to get promotions and I’ve just felt that I want to taste that as a manager. How much do you pursue that? Football is in the blood and I love it. It’s been my whole life. But how much of a price do you put on that?”

It is a difficult trade-off at times, especially when it is hard, almost impossible in fact, to avoid taking the job home with you after a bad result.

“You plan a meal on a weekend, you lose the game and you’re not in the best of moods and you carry that around with you,” Monk says. “So you have to tell the family, ‘We’re not going now’, because if I go out I’m going to get abuse or I’m not going to be good company. There’s been plenty of times when we’ve arranged to go and do stuff and I’ve cancelled it. Or I’ve gone out and you’re not (really) there.”

In Living on the Volcano, Michael Calvin’s excellent 2015 book about the secrets of surviving as a football manager, Joe Dunne says that when he was in charge at Colchester United, from 2012-14, and they had lost, he would turn the two-minute drive home into an hour, going up and down the nearby A12 and even taking a detour into the countryside.

Sometimes, Dunne says in the book, he would park up on the side of the road or arrive at a set of traffic lights and have no idea which way to turn.

“When I get home, the missus’ll go, ‘Where have you been?” Dunne recalls. “And I’m like, ‘I don’t fucking know. But I’ll tell you what I do know. I know my team for Tuesday night. And I know what I’m doing in training next week’.”

Sbragia chuckles as he listens to that story and immediately thinks how his own commute between York and Sunderland often turned into a blur.

“I’d be driving and thinking, ‘Christ, how have I got here?’” Sbragia says, laughing. “I’m not even realising I’m driving the car.”

“When Dad used to get home — he still does it now but not as bad because I think he realises that phones are fairly important; it was only four years ago that he discovered what WhatsApp was — he would just turn his phone off and he wouldn’t be available,” James Pearson says.

“Sometimes if it was urgent. Mum would have Andrew Neville (Leicester City’s football operations director) sending her a text saying, ‘Can you get Nigel to get in contact?’ A bit like Dean (his adviser) does now if a job comes up, so he still does it!”

James is the son of Nigel, whose managerial career has taken him all over the country, from Southampton to Carlisle and plenty of places in between, as well as a stint in Belgium. He is on a Zoom call with his mum Nicky, to talk about the world of football management from the other side of the fence.

Their family home has been in Sheffield for more than 30 years, going back to the days when Nigel was captaining second-division Wednesday to a League Cup final win over Manchester United and promotion in the same season. Although that can mean periods apart at times, especially during the week, there is something to be said for the stability and escapism that a permanent base away from the football club provides.

“Absolutely,” says Nicky. “To be able to come home and not have that (the pressure of being a manager at a club in the same city where you live) if we did go out. We still have a massive thing in Sheffield because he was the captain of Sheffield Wednesday, so we have it from a fan and a player side but not as a manager, and that’s why he’s always said that to manage in Sheffield isn’t what he wants because he likes living here and he wouldn’t want that to be affected.”

Although Nicky would go to the majority of matches in normal circumstances, and spend more time watching her husband on the touchline than the game itself, she rarely talks football at home. “It’s work, so I don’t ever really ask that much. If Nigel was a bank manager, I wouldn’t expect him to come home and talk to me about accounts,” she says, smiling.

With James, whose career as a professional footballer was brought to a premature end last year because of injury following a final spell with Macclesfield Town, it is different. Aged 28, he will often chat about a game with his dad, in the same way any father and son might, or a potential job opportunity, as was the case when Bristol City of the Championship came in for Nigel last month.

One thing James has really noticed over the last couple of years is just how much his old man has mellowed. “I think he’s completely changed now. Obviously, we all worry about his mental health. But ever since he took the Watford job (in December 2019), I would say that I don’t worry about him half as much because he’s changed the way he perceives everyone.

“Before, he used to call Twitter ‘Twatter’. He used to hate it. He used to hate social media. Not hate… he just didn’t get it. But he understands now that this is life, it’s a massive part of football. The fact that he’s on social media is weird. So weird. But it’s a good thing too.”

Age and experience probably have something to do with that shift, plus a willingness to embrace the media more generally in a way that would never have appealed to him in the past. James talks about how “the barriers aren’t up” any more and how his father seems more relaxed as a result, whether that’s speaking to journalists or bumping into football fans in a restaurant.

That is not to say that Pearson has let his guard down completely; there is a time and a place for speaking openly.

“When he’s being interviewed, I sometimes think, ‘Oh for goodness sake, talk quickly. You don’t talk like that normally’. We’re all thinking, ‘Come on, spit it out!’” says Nicky, laughing. “But I know that he’s doing that for a reason. He’s always thinking about what he’s saying in a live interview because he knows the scrutiny there is and that people will pick it apart if he just says one thing wrong.”

While dealing with the fallout from unfavourable headlines is one thing — Pearson had to do that a few times with Leicester during the 2014-15 season in the Premier League that included the notorious Night of the Ostrich run-in with one reporter — picking up the pieces in between jobs is quite another.

“I’ve seen Nigel at his lowest — Derby,” says Nicky, referring to his acrimonious 2016 departure from Pride Park, when he left the club by mutual consent after only five months following a bitter fallout with Mel Morris, the club’s owner. “It was awful. I‘ve always been Nigel’s biggest fan. I’ve always said to him, ‘You’re too good to give this up’. But I thought (then), ‘If he never works in football again, I’m with him’.”

James finds it hard to imagine that day will come and tells his mum that it is unlikely to happen anytime soon. “Dad has worked in football for 39 years, in a dressing room,” he says. “Yeah, he likes to take a break and go on holiday (at the end of the season) and he’s been travelling around the world and he enjoys doing that. But football, whether people like it or not, is a drug. It’s a complete addiction.

“When he’s in football, he might go, ‘I’m tired, this is hard, and mentally it’s tough’. When you’re out of it, all you want to be is back. And you see when he gets a job after being out of work, within half an hour he’s got a completely different mindset and he’s a completely different person.

“That’s because it’s the drug that is football.”

When Eddie Howe stepped down at Bournemouth last summer following their relegation from the Premier League, it ended the best part of 12 years in management without a break. Howe has a reputation for being a workaholic too — first in, last to leave — so it is no real surprise that he has taken the best part of a year out. That said, what would have happened if an exciting job had come up during that time?

McDermott faced that dilemma almost exactly eight years ago when Leeds made an approach only a month after Reading sacked him. He could have done with a little while off to escape and recharge, but football doesn’t always work that way.

“I just felt that I had to take that job,” McDermott says.

“Leeds were losing a lot of games and they started to worry about getting relegated (from the Championship), and they wanted me to get up there. I wanted to take the job in the summer. There were five games to go but I thought, ‘I’ve got to take it because I might lose this chance to take it in the summer.’”

A year later, McDermott was physically and mentally spent after a chaotic season.

At one stage, he received a phone call from a lawyer representing Massimo Cellino, Leeds’ prospective new owner, to tell him he had been relieved of his duties. The following morning, the club’s existing owners said he was still in charge. It was a strange and difficult time at the club, and on top of that McDermott was dealing with the emotional distress of his mother’s poor health.


McDermott was ‘fired’ by Cellino only to be reappointed by the owners of the club during a stressful time at Leeds (Photo: Tony Marshall/PA Images via Getty Images)
“I was kind of burnt out at Leeds at the end of it because my mum wasn’t well — she died in the June,” McDermott says. “I was living up north and not in a good place, particularly. There was a lot of stuff going on that was personal to me. I was trying to manage the team and I was trying to manage what was going on above me, stuff that you’ll never find on the Pro Licence (coaching course), stuff that you’ll never see on a course, and that you’ll only learn from experience.”

‘Managing up’ within a club can be one of the biggest challenges, especially for a coach who is inexperienced. Some owners and chairmen like to interfere, even if they have limited knowledge of the game. Dealing with that kind of thing — team selection suggestions and comments on training sessions or impromptu appearances in the changing room — can be wearing.

Niall Quinn offers an interesting view on that side of the job, mindful that managers were always answerable to him when he was chairman at Sunderland. “With Roy (Keane) I was just thinking, ‘Let him do his thing, let’s trust him, and I’ll hold off all the stuff that might cause friction or problems’. Holding him accountable for things that weren’t really down to him was never going to work. Holding him accountable as a young manager anyway was wrong (Keane was 35 when Sunderland gave him his first crack at management). It was about allowing him to find his way by taking the stuff that can be annoying and pressurised off him.

“I can remember I’d been down to (former club) Arsenal one evening and the pitch was in incredible condition. They had all these lamps out and it was eight or nine at night. I got to speak to the groundsman, who told me it was the way forward and that they were the first club to do it. I went back up and I can remember Roy saying, ‘Well, I’d rather money was spent on a player, you’ll never fix this pitch’.

“By the end of the season, the pitch was perfect. It was important that I didn’t have a row with Roy over that. I said, ‘Hey, listen, we’ll do both for you’. And I can remember him saying, ‘I hope you’re right’. And, in fairness to him, he did (later) say, ‘You got that right’. He’s good like that.

“I used to meet Roy and have dinner with him once a month, to see what help he needed and to support him with stuff. I wanted to let him grow as a manager. That was the plan. Not to be confrontational with him — the way some chairmen say, ‘You’d better do this, you’d better do that’. That’s not my style anyway.”

It is easy to understand why some managers focus more on the owner, or chairman, rather than the club when deciding where to work next. Monk has not exactly made life easy for himself in that respect. He talks about spending a lot of his time firefighting since leaving Swansea.

“But you just accept that’s what it is and you somehow manage your way through it,” he says. “The only mistake I feel I’ve made in terms of the decision to take a job has been Sheffield Wednesday, because it’s the only one where I knew in my heart before I took it that there were a lot of things wrong there. I think the reason why I took it was because of all the bullshit that Dong (Xuandong Ren, the chief executive) had said at Birmingham about me, publicly. I thought, ‘I’ve got to get back in to prove that wrong’.”

It didn’t quite turn out that way at Hillsborough, and now Monk finds himself waiting for another opportunity to jump back on board the managerial merry-go-round, knowing exactly what he will be letting himself in for before he walks through the door.

“You can’t compare football management to someone who is on the front line, doing surgeries and dealing with trauma,” Monk says. “But it is just… it’s just brain-fog.”
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on March 25, 2021, 10:40:48 PM
Really good article, thanks for posting. One day, I hope the Ross McCormack story is shared.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Smirker on April 04, 2021, 08:28:19 PM
Happy for Dean today.

If there is one thing I have learned from watching the Villa under Smith, it is to never write off a Dean Smith team. Everyone was convinced play offs were gone in February 2019 and look what happened. Then we were going down last season with four games to go and look what happened. And now I fully believe our season can still end in qualification for the EL. We might not make it, me might do, but we have a chance and and they will not give up.

Great result today thank you to Dean and the lads.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: West Derby Villan on April 04, 2021, 08:30:35 PM
Quote from: Smirker on April 04, 2021, 08:28:19 PM
Happy for Dean today.

If there is one thing I have learned from watching the Villa under Smith, it is to never write off a Dean Smith team. Everyone was convinced play offs were gone in February 2019 and look what happened. Then we were going down last season with four games to go and look what happened. And now I fully believe our season can still end in qualification for the EL. We might not make it, me might do, but we have a chance and and they will not give up.

Great result today thank you to Dean and the lads.

Good shout Smirker, “never write him off” like it
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 10, 2021, 05:01:22 PM
Another one down to Smith.
Poor team selection, even though we were extremely lucky to go in a goal up, he did nothing to help the team. Stubbornness and lack of game management are  his major failings and I don’t think you can get to the top 6 with those traits.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on April 10, 2021, 05:02:13 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on April 10, 2021, 05:01:22 PM
Another one down to Smith.
Poor team selection, even though we were extremely lucky to go in a goal up, he did nothing to help the team. Stubbornness and lack of game management are  his major failings and I don’t think you can get to the top 6 with those traits.

What game management should we have done?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Axl Rose on April 10, 2021, 05:03:22 PM
Absolutely no chance of us finishing top 6 with gormless in charge. Get rid.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on April 10, 2021, 05:04:22 PM
Yes, let's sack a manager because we haven't gone from 17th to 6th in a season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: hipkiss92 on April 10, 2021, 05:05:05 PM
Quote from: Axl Rose on April 10, 2021, 05:03:22 PM
Absolutely no chance of us finishing top 6 with gormless in charge. Get rid.

Yes, because that's entirely realistic when we finished 17th last year.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: RamboandBruno on April 10, 2021, 05:05:32 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on April 10, 2021, 05:01:22 PM
Another one down to Smith.
Poor team selection, even though we were extremely lucky to go in a goal up, he did nothing to help the team. Stubbornness and lack of game management are  his major failings and I don’t think you can get to the top 6 with those traits.

Can’t agree with this, we were the better team after they equalised, in fact the two shots that led to the winner, are the only ones I remember them having in the last 30 minutes. I’ve never felt so comfortable watching us at Anfield as the 2nd half.
Two subs were forced by injuries, I’m not sure what you expected him to do.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Taylor on April 10, 2021, 05:05:46 PM
Quote from: Axl Rose on April 10, 2021, 05:03:22 PM
Absolutely no chance of us finishing top 6 with gormless in charge. Get rid.
What an idiotic thing to say
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nev on April 10, 2021, 05:05:59 PM
Matt Maher described us as unfortunate, Pat Nevin said the result was harsh on us and we'd played our part in an entertaining and close game....
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa for life on April 10, 2021, 05:06:05 PM
Time is ticking for Smith.

Was a real fan.. but he’s not learning quick enough. Still hoping he can prove he’s good enough
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Axl Rose on April 10, 2021, 05:08:30 PM
Quote from: Taylor on April 10, 2021, 05:05:46 PM
Quote from: Axl Rose on April 10, 2021, 05:03:22 PM
Absolutely no chance of us finishing top 6 with gormless in charge. Get rid.
What an idiotic thing to say

It's only an opinion.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Bobby Boy on April 10, 2021, 05:08:39 PM
Recog
Quote from: Ads on April 10, 2021, 05:02:13 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on April 10, 2021, 05:01:22 PM
Another one down to Smith.
Poor team selection, even though we were extremely lucky to go in a goal up, he did nothing to help the team. Stubbornness and lack of game management are  his major failings and I don’t think you can get to the top 6 with those traits.

What game management should we have done?

Recognising at h-t that despite being ahead we were lucky and that Traore and Trezeguet were offering nothing.

Our defence is fantastic and so is Watkins but our midfield is piss weak.

Shore up the midfield and make it hard for Liverpool to play through us.

Everyone on here wants Villa to be successful. Giving our opponents the run of the midfield game after game and not even trying to change it is a problem.

Playing wingers who do nothing  is a problem.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on April 10, 2021, 05:08:47 PM
Quote from: Axl Rose on April 10, 2021, 05:03:22 PM
Absolutely no chance of us finishing top 6 with gormless in charge. Get rid.

Nice to see you making up for lost time.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on April 10, 2021, 05:08:56 PM
{alt}
Quote from: Axl Rose on April 10, 2021, 05:03:22 PM
Absolutely no chance of us finishing top 6 with gormless in charge. Get rid.

Oh dear!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on April 10, 2021, 05:09:06 PM
We're going to finish bottom half aren't we?

This despite having 3rd/4th best defence in league.

Certainly not saying DS out at all but I have the feeling just like MON had the limit of 6th DS will have limit of 8th even if we give him 100s of millions to spend over next 2-3 years, he simply just dosen't tweak it well enough at times as the game goes on.

Not too bothered about today's result as Liverpool are still a good team but our record in 2021 really hasn't been that good so just frustrating another promising season is just fizzling out, been a major problem in last 20 years.

I'd have been fine with 11th in September but I don't see what's wrong with wanting a little bit more with how we've generally played for most of this season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 10, 2021, 05:09:23 PM
Quote from: Ads on April 10, 2021, 05:02:13 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on April 10, 2021, 05:01:22 PM
Another one down to Smith.
Poor team selection, even though we were extremely lucky to go in a goal up, he did nothing to help the team. Stubbornness and lack of game management are  his major failings and I don’t think you can get to the top 6 with those traits.

What game management should we have done?
Where do you start, getting a better structure to the team at half time instead of waiting for them to score, getting Traore off who was close to useless.
I don’t think Smith made one good decision from selection, to structure to subs.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ez on April 10, 2021, 05:09:59 PM
Quote from: Axl Rose on April 10, 2021, 05:03:22 PM
Absolutely no chance of us finishing top 6 with gormless in charge. Get rid.

I think you are a year ahead of time with that comment.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on April 10, 2021, 05:10:22 PM
Trez played well second half and was a square post away from scoring.

How did game management lead to them winning? They had a lot of the ball, didn't really dominate territory, didn't make the keeper make any saves, didn't put us under any sustained pressure what so ever. So how did the manager and their absence of "game management" lead to that winner?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Axl Rose on April 10, 2021, 05:10:45 PM
Quote from: Ads on April 10, 2021, 05:04:22 PM
Yes, let's sack a manager because we haven't gone from 17th to 6th in a season.

I agree with you.

By the way, you don't have to defend him in every post that he's condemned. You aren't friends.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 10, 2021, 05:11:44 PM
Quote from: RamboandBruno on April 10, 2021, 05:05:32 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on April 10, 2021, 05:01:22 PM
Another one down to Smith.
Poor team selection, even though we were extremely lucky to go in a goal up, he did nothing to help the team. Stubbornness and lack of game management are  his major failings and I don’t think you can get to the top 6 with those traits.

Can’t agree with this, we were the better team after they equalised, in fact the two shots that led to the winner, are the only ones I remember them having in the last 30 minutes. I’ve never felt so comfortable watching us at Anfield as the 2nd half.
Two subs were forced by injuries, I’m not sure what you expected him to do.
you were watching a different game to me, we looked confused without structure for pretty much the whole game.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on April 10, 2021, 05:11:54 PM
Quote from: Axl Rose on April 10, 2021, 05:10:45 PM
Quote from: Ads on April 10, 2021, 05:04:22 PM
Yes, let's sack a manager because we haven't gone from 17th to 6th in a season.

I agree with you.

By the way, you don't have to defend him in every post that he's condemned. You aren't friends.

Thanks for the advice, step up from crying and calling me a twat.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on April 10, 2021, 05:13:13 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on April 10, 2021, 05:01:22 PM
Another one down to Smith.
Poor team selection, even though we were extremely lucky to go in a goal up, he did nothing to help the team. Stubbornness and lack of game management are  his major failings and I don’t think you can get to the top 6 with those traits.

Not one of Smiths biggest fans but I thought taking off Nakamba helped the team a lot. Traore definitely shouldn't have seen longer than half time though.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Axl Rose on April 10, 2021, 05:13:23 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on April 10, 2021, 05:08:47 PM
Quote from: Axl Rose on April 10, 2021, 05:03:22 PM
Absolutely no chance of us finishing top 6 with gormless in charge. Get rid.

Nice to see you making up for lost time.

I don't know why you take any criticism of Smith so personally. You like him, I don't. He's still in charge, so you're winning, technically.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 10, 2021, 05:14:16 PM
Quote from: Ads on April 10, 2021, 05:10:22 PM
Trez played well second half and was a square post away from scoring.

How did game management lead to them winning? They had a lot of the ball, didn't really dominate territory, didn't make the keeper make any saves, didn't put us under any sustained pressure what so ever. So how did the manager and their absence of "game management" lead to that winner?
if you think Barkley and AEG was the right call and playing Ramsey right wing  is the answer then I have no idea what the question is.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on April 10, 2021, 05:14:17 PM
Quote from: Axl Rose on April 10, 2021, 05:13:23 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on April 10, 2021, 05:08:47 PM
Quote from: Axl Rose on April 10, 2021, 05:03:22 PM
Absolutely no chance of us finishing top 6 with gormless in charge. Get rid.

Nice to see you making up for lost time.

I don't know why you take any criticism of Smith so personally. You like him, I don't. He's still in charge, so you're winning, technically.

Says the man who a couple of posts ago said he was giving his opinion.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on April 10, 2021, 05:14:21 PM
Quote from: Bobby Boy on April 10, 2021, 05:08:39 PM
Quote from: Ads on April 10, 2021, 05:02:13 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on April 10, 2021, 05:01:22 PM
Another one down to Smith.
Poor team selection, even though we were extremely lucky to go in a goal up, he did nothing to help the team. Stubbornness and lack of game management are  his major failings and I don’t think you can get to the top 6 with those traits.

What game management should we have done?

Recognising at h-t that despite being ahead we were lucky and that Traore and Trezeguet were offering nothing.

Our defence is fantastic and so is Watkins but our midfield is piss weak.

Shore up the midfield and make it hard for Liverpool to play through us.

Everyone on here wants Villa to be successful. Giving our opponents the run of the midfield game after game and not even trying to change it is a problem.

Playing wingers who do nothing  is a problem.


Fuck shoring up the midfield. They hadn't had a threatening kick for half an hour. I'll admit to jinxing it. At 4.40, I messaged my brother.
Quote
I'd rather watch this and have us end up with maybe no points than try to hang on and definitely get no points.

I've not changed my mind.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on April 10, 2021, 05:15:23 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on April 10, 2021, 05:09:06 PM
We're going to finish bottom half aren't we?

This despite having 3rd/4th best defence in league.

Certainly not saying DS out at all but I have the feeling just like MON had the limit of 6th DS will have limit of 8th even if we give him 100s of millions to spend over next 2-3 years, he simply just dosen't tweak it well enough at times as the game goes on.

Not too bothered about today's result as Liverpool are still a good team but our record in 2021 really hasn't been that good so just frustrating another promising season is just fizzling out, been a major problem in last 20 years.

I'd have been fine with 11th in September but I don't see what's wrong with wanting a little bit more with how we've generally played for most of this season.

Possibly, but the issue I suppose is there's not a great deal of attacking cards to shuffle. I'd have started Davis, but he hasn't scored a league goal since Burton Albion, so with respect to my meaningless suggestion, Smith would rightly point out others who contributed a lot more since.

Somebody of Ollie's quality to compete and a wide player to improve on the Trez/AEG axis will be vital to.improve again next season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: colin69 on April 10, 2021, 05:15:25 PM
Unfortunately I’m beginning to think Dean may not cut it at this level. His starting line up was all wrong as were his subs. What the hell is Barkley even doing in the squad let alone coming on, completely useless. I feel very sorry for Davis who deserves to be starting games.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on April 10, 2021, 05:15:28 PM
Quote from: Bobby Boy on April 10, 2021, 05:08:39 PM
Recog
Quote from: Ads on April 10, 2021, 05:02:13 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on April 10, 2021, 05:01:22 PM
Another one down to Smith.
Poor team selection, even though we were extremely lucky to go in a goal up, he did nothing to help the team. Stubbornness and lack of game management are  his major failings and I don’t think you can get to the top 6 with those traits.

What game management should we have done?

Recognising at h-t that despite being ahead we were lucky and that Traore and Trezeguet were offering nothing.

Our defence is fantastic and so is Watkins but our midfield is piss weak.

Shore up the midfield and make it hard for Liverpool to play through us.

Everyone on here wants Villa to be successful. Giving our opponents the run of the midfield game after game and not even trying to change it is a problem.

Playing wingers who do nothing  is a problem.

Except one of those wingers that you were desperate to see taken off hit the post and should've won us a penalty. They also didn't have the run of midfield in the 2nd half, both goals were quick counter attacks after we gave the ball away too cheaply around their box. The 2nd in particular was shockingly poor play from Ross who dithered on the ball, didn't play the pass he should've and then stood around sulking instead of making any effort to get back.

My only major criticism of Smith today was bringing on Barkley who was comfortably the worst player on the pitch today.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nunkin1965 on April 10, 2021, 05:16:18 PM
Quote from: Axl Rose on April 10, 2021, 05:13:23 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on April 10, 2021, 05:08:47 PM
Quote from: Axl Rose on April 10, 2021, 05:03:22 PM
Absolutely no chance of us finishing top 6 with gormless in charge. Get rid.

Nice to see you making up for lost time.

I don't know why you take any criticism of Smith so personally. You like him, I don't. He's still in charge, so you're winning, technically.

Nice gormless quote there Axel.
Maybe you need a little patience?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: FatSam on April 10, 2021, 05:16:56 PM
Quote from: Axl Rose on April 10, 2021, 05:03:22 PM
Absolutely no chance of us finishing top 6 with gormless in charge. Get rid.
I don’t think Smith deserves to be called gormless, especially by one of his own supporters.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 10, 2021, 05:17:24 PM
Quote from: Bobby Boy on April 10, 2021, 05:08:39 PM
Recog
Quote from: Ads on April 10, 2021, 05:02:13 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on April 10, 2021, 05:01:22 PM
Another one down to Smith.
Poor team selection, even though we were extremely lucky to go in a goal up, he did nothing to help the team. Stubbornness and lack of game management are  his major failings and I don’t think you can get to the top 6 with those traits.

What game management should we have done?

Recognising at h-t that despite being ahead we were lucky and that Traore and Trezeguet were offering nothing.

Our defence is fantastic and so is Watkins but our midfield is piss weak.

Shore up the midfield and make it hard for Liverpool to play through us.

Everyone on here wants Villa to be successful. Giving our opponents the run of the midfield game after game and not even trying to change it is a problem.

Playing wingers who do nothing  is a problem.
absolutely, and doing nothing about it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Axl Rose on April 10, 2021, 05:17:26 PM
Quote from: Ads on April 10, 2021, 05:11:54 PM
Quote from: Axl Rose on April 10, 2021, 05:10:45 PM
Quote from: Ads on April 10, 2021, 05:04:22 PM
Yes, let's sack a manager because we haven't gone from 17th to 6th in a season.

I agree with you.

By the way, you don't have to defend him in every post that he's condemned. You aren't friends.

Thanks for the advice, step up from crying and calling me a twat.

I'm not entirely sure about the crying part, but the character description, I stand by. You won't be getting an apology that's for sure.

Please don't talk to me. I'm only just back from a ban and I'd prefer not to interact with you



Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Axl Rose on April 10, 2021, 05:18:59 PM
Quote from: Nunkin1965 on April 10, 2021, 05:16:18 PM
Quote from: Axl Rose on April 10, 2021, 05:13:23 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on April 10, 2021, 05:08:47 PM
Quote from: Axl Rose on April 10, 2021, 05:03:22 PM
Absolutely no chance of us finishing top 6 with gormless in charge. Get rid.

Nice to see you making up for lost time.

I don't know why you take any criticism of Smith so personally. You like him, I don't. He's still in charge, so you're winning, technically.

Nice gormless quote there Axel.
Maybe you need a little patience?

Maybe mate, yes. I am a bit of an impatient swine at times. Have a good night, mate.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on April 10, 2021, 05:20:37 PM
Quote from: colin69 on April 10, 2021, 05:15:25 PM
Unfortunately I’m beginning to think Dean may not cut it at this level. His starting line up was all wrong as were his subs. What the hell is Barkley even doing in the squad let alone coming on, completely useless. I feel very sorry for Davis who deserves to be starting games.

We lost to the champions, who scored an injury time winner. We didn't play that well but we kept at them and he made attacking subs - there was no MON/Bruce-style hanging on and hoping for a point.

I like Davis, and I'd have brought him on, but what in the universe has he done to 'deserve to be starting games'?!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on April 10, 2021, 05:20:47 PM
Quote from: Ads on April 10, 2021, 05:10:22 PM
Trez played well second half and was a square post away from scoring.

How did game management lead to them winning? They had a lot of the ball, didn't really dominate territory, didn't make the keeper make any saves, didn't put us under any sustained pressure what so ever. So how did the manager and their absence of "game management" lead to that winner?

I agree today no real issue other than not trusting Davis despite being excellent in his cameo last week.

Desperately need a striker in the squad that will be trusted to come on in every game next season regardless of score or opposition.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on April 10, 2021, 05:20:54 PM
Quote from: Nunkin1965 on April 10, 2021, 05:16:18 PM
Nice gormless quote there Axel.
Maybe you need a little patience?

It's the perfect description of his face when he's stood on the touchline wondering what to do.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: RamboandBruno on April 10, 2021, 05:21:06 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on April 10, 2021, 05:11:44 PM
Quote from: RamboandBruno on April 10, 2021, 05:05:32 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on April 10, 2021, 05:01:22 PM
Another one down to Smith.
Poor team selection, even though we were extremely lucky to go in a goal up, he did nothing to help the team. Stubbornness and lack of game management are  his major failings and I don’t think you can get to the top 6 with those traits.

Can’t agree with this, we were the better team after they equalised, in fact the two shots that led to the winner, are the only ones I remember them having in the last 30 minutes. I’ve never felt so comfortable watching us at Anfield as the 2nd half.
Two subs were forced by injuries, I’m not sure what you expected him to do.
you were watching a different game to me, we looked confused without structure for pretty much the whole game.

Fair enough it’s about opinions. But I can’t think of one occasion when they had a shot between them equalising on 55 and getting the winner on 90.
In terms of game management he brought on Barkley for Nakamba, presumably as he thought we could retain possession more and push for a winner. We might not all agree with that substitution in terms of personnel, but Smith was being proactive.
I thought Trezs shot was in and I don’t see Liverpool coming back from that if it is.
We weren’t brilliant, but nor were they and as I said I personally felt it was comfortable.
Always a sickener giving away a last minute goal, and I as gutted as anyone, but I honestly can’t understand some of the hysteria on here or the match thread/post match thread. That’s not aimed at you by the way.
We’re 4 points off a European place.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ketzster on April 10, 2021, 05:21:34 PM
I tend to fall on the Axl Rose side of the argument. It is incredibly frustrating having a manager that never really makes any changes other than the like for like substitutions. We keep hearing he is learning, but is he really? I don’t see it because you know it will always be 4-3-3, no matter who we are playing and no matter what the situation in the game is normally. We don’t have the squad to do that. Liverpool can for example because they have better players than most teams in the league. Personally I do wonder whether we are wasting a golden opportunity. We’ve got owners who spend a fortune and it just feels like we are wasting the chance to do something. Eventually the owners might stop spending so much and will we look back and think if only they’d gone and given that money to a top manager?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on April 10, 2021, 05:21:52 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on April 10, 2021, 05:20:37 PM
Quote from: colin69 on April 10, 2021, 05:15:25 PM
Unfortunately I’m beginning to think Dean may not cut it at this level. His starting line up was all wrong as were his subs. What the hell is Barkley even doing in the squad let alone coming on, completely useless. I feel very sorry for Davis who deserves to be starting games.

We lost to the champions, who scored an injury time winner. We didn't play that well but we kept at them and he made attacking subs - there was no MON/Bruce-style hanging on and hoping for a point.

I like Davis, and I'd have brought him on, but what in the universe has he done to 'deserve to be starting games'?!

You could say the same about Traore, but he starts every week, despite being absolutely terrible, week in, week out.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on April 10, 2021, 05:22:15 PM
Would you really change the formation and tactics just to accommodate Keinan Davis?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on April 10, 2021, 05:22:56 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on April 10, 2021, 05:20:47 PM
Quote from: Ads on April 10, 2021, 05:10:22 PM
Trez played well second half and was a square post away from scoring.

How did game management lead to them winning? They had a lot of the ball, didn't really dominate territory, didn't make the keeper make any saves, didn't put us under any sustained pressure what so ever. So how did the manager and their absence of "game management" lead to that winner?

I agree today no real issue other than not trusting Davis despite being excellent in his cameo last week.

Desperately need a striker in the squad that will be trusted to come on in every game next season regardless of score or opposition.

I wonder if they realised how bad Wesley's injury was back in the summer. Its 15 and a half months now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on April 10, 2021, 05:24:17 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on April 10, 2021, 05:22:15 PM
Would you really change the formation and tactics just to accommodate Keinan Davis?

This is it. Move your number 1 goal scorer out of the central position to accommodate somebody who doesn't score.

If Spurs shunted Kane out wide for somebody similar we'd be delighted. I want Davis to have a bash though.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: N'ZMAV on April 10, 2021, 05:24:26 PM
Quote from: Axl Rose on April 10, 2021, 05:03:22 PM
Absolutely no chance of us finishing top 6 with gormless in charge. Get rid.
I don't think there's a real chance of top 6 with any manager at the moment
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: N'ZMAV on April 10, 2021, 05:25:05 PM
I'd be happy to see Davis up front with Watkins - no way would I be shifting Watkins out wide to play Davis.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on April 10, 2021, 05:25:46 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on April 10, 2021, 05:22:15 PM
Would you really change the formation and tactics just to accommodate Keinan Davis?

Of course. It's easy. You just move our one genuine actual goal threat into another position where we as supporters have decided he'll obviously be good.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on April 10, 2021, 05:26:05 PM
Quote from: N'ZMAV on April 10, 2021, 05:24:26 PM
Quote from: Axl Rose on April 10, 2021, 05:03:22 PM
Absolutely no chance of us finishing top 6 with gormless in charge. Get rid.
I don't think there's a real chance of top 6 with any manager at the moment

And that's something we should remember. How many clubs get promoted and finish top six within two years?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on April 10, 2021, 05:26:15 PM
Quote from: Ads on April 10, 2021, 05:24:17 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on April 10, 2021, 05:22:15 PM
Would you really change the formation and tactics just to accommodate Keinan Davis?

This is it. Move your number 1 goal scorer out of the central position to accommodate somebody who doesn't score.

If Spurs shunted Kane out wide for somebody similar we'd be delighted. I want Davis to have a bash though.

It's a front three, so hardly like we'd be moving Watkins to right back, he's just be playing slightly wider than he is now, which he is more than capable of. In the place of one of our wingers, who are all abysmal, Traore especially.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on April 10, 2021, 05:26:38 PM
Quote from: Axl Rose on April 10, 2021, 05:17:26 PM
Quote from: Ads on April 10, 2021, 05:11:54 PM
Quote from: Axl Rose on April 10, 2021, 05:10:45 PM
Quote from: Ads on April 10, 2021, 05:04:22 PM
Yes, let's sack a manager because we haven't gone from 17th to 6th in a season.

I agree with you.

By the way, you don't have to defend him in every post that he's condemned. You aren't friends.

Thanks for the advice, step up from crying and calling me a twat.

I'm not entirely sure about the crying part, but the character description, I stand by. You won't be getting an apology that's for sure.

Please don't talk to me. I'm only just back from a ban and I'd prefer not to interact with you





Nearly half 1 in the morning and you're sniding on about somebody you've never met. Send your PMs, have a bitch, have a drink and relax.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Axl Rose on April 10, 2021, 05:26:44 PM
Quote from: N'ZMAV on April 10, 2021, 05:24:26 PM
Quote from: Axl Rose on April 10, 2021, 05:03:22 PM
Absolutely no chance of us finishing top 6 with gormless in charge. Get rid.
I don't think there's a real chance of top 6 with any manager at the moment

You're probably right to be honest, mate. I should be a bit more understanding, I know.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on April 10, 2021, 05:27:40 PM
Quote from: Risso on April 10, 2021, 05:26:15 PM
Quote from: Ads on April 10, 2021, 05:24:17 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on April 10, 2021, 05:22:15 PM
Would you really change the formation and tactics just to accommodate Keinan Davis?

This is it. Move your number 1 goal scorer out of the central position to accommodate somebody who doesn't score.

If Spurs shunted Kane out wide for somebody similar we'd be delighted. I want Davis to have a bash though.

It's a front three, so hardly like we'd be moving Watkins to right back, he's just be playing slightly wider than he is now, which he is more than capable of. In the place of one of our wingers, who are all abysmal, Traore especially.

Who do you want in the width of the goal though when Traore actually puts in a quality ball? Watkins or Davis?

It's best as a 2 with a diamond.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on April 10, 2021, 05:28:00 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on April 10, 2021, 05:26:05 PM
Quote from: N'ZMAV on April 10, 2021, 05:24:26 PM
Quote from: Axl Rose on April 10, 2021, 05:03:22 PM
Absolutely no chance of us finishing top 6 with gormless in charge. Get rid.
I don't think there's a real chance of top 6 with any manager at the moment

And that's something we should remember. How many clubs get promoted and finish top six within two years?

How many are owned by one of the richest men in the world?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ketzster on April 10, 2021, 05:28:05 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on April 10, 2021, 05:22:15 PM
Would you really change the formation and tactics just to accommodate Keinan Davis?

Yes I’d give it a go. Watkins is often pretty isolated, as was Tammy Abraham for long periods in the championship. When we go through prolonged periods playing like this under Smith, and it’s obviously not working, it would be nice if he would try something different. I’m well aware you don’t agree, but giving Watkins somebody to play off up front can’t be any worse than what we have seen for a lot of the time over the last however many games. It would be worth trying. It might not work, but what Smith is doing now isn’t working anyway
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on April 10, 2021, 05:28:25 PM
Quote from: Risso on April 10, 2021, 05:21:52 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on April 10, 2021, 05:20:37 PM
Quote from: colin69 on April 10, 2021, 05:15:25 PM
Unfortunately I’m beginning to think Dean may not cut it at this level. His starting line up was all wrong as were his subs. What the hell is Barkley even doing in the squad let alone coming on, completely useless. I feel very sorry for Davis who deserves to be starting games.

We lost to the champions, who scored an injury time winner. We didn't play that well but we kept at them and he made attacking subs - there was no MON/Bruce-style hanging on and hoping for a point.

I like Davis, and I'd have brought him on, but what in the universe has he done to 'deserve to be starting games'?!

You could say the same about Traore, but he starts every week, despite being absolutely terrible, week in, week out.

Traore's scored a few goals. Which isn't to have a dig at Davis, because he's not had a proper chance playing in a good team, but 'deserves to start'? I'm not so sure.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on April 10, 2021, 05:28:30 PM
Quote from: Ketzster on April 10, 2021, 05:21:34 PM
I tend to fall on the Axl Rose side of the argument. It is incredibly frustrating having a manager that never really makes any changes other than the like for like substitutions. We keep hearing he is learning, but is he really? I don’t see it because you know it will always be 4-3-3, no matter who we are playing and no matter what the situation in the game is normally. We don’t have the squad to do that. Liverpool can for example because they have better players than most teams in the league. Personally I do wonder whether we are wasting a golden opportunity. We’ve got owners who spend a fortune and it just feels like we are wasting the chance to do something. Eventually the owners might stop spending so much and will we look back and think if only they’d gone and given that money to a top manager?

Time will tell. He's certainly beyond doubt earned a crack at next season (not sure how anyone on here could argue otherwise) but ultimately the time to really have a go is with Grealish actually at the club.

Not convinced we'll just rise effortlessly up the league as many seem to think next season. For a start our defence might not be as good with injuries and stuff so we're going to need much more goal power in final third so pressure to get in two really good attacking players to get us scoring 2s and 3s more regularly. It's what twice in 2021 we've scored more than one goal in a game?

I don't follow american sports but wasn't it said Wes replaced a DS type manager at the baseball team with a more winning one? Think this time next year they'll have a bit of a decision to make, like when Man. City sacked Mark Hughes despite him being 5th/6th in the league as they wanted to be winning stuff and that decision was completely correct in the long run, same when Chelsea let Ranieri go despite finishing 2nd.

We have the Lerner period to look back on with horror at how quickly it all went tits up so I have a nagging fear we'll build slowly, other clubs will gamble a bit quicker and then we'll go into self destruct mode when Jack leaves and fall back down the table. Badly hope I'm wrong.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on April 10, 2021, 05:28:57 PM
Quote from: Ads on April 10, 2021, 05:27:40 PM
Quote from: Risso on April 10, 2021, 05:26:15 PM
Quote from: Ads on April 10, 2021, 05:24:17 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on April 10, 2021, 05:22:15 PM
Would you really change the formation and tactics just to accommodate Keinan Davis?

This is it. Move your number 1 goal scorer out of the central position to accommodate somebody who doesn't score.

If Spurs shunted Kane out wide for somebody similar we'd be delighted. I want Davis to have a bash though.

It's a front three, so hardly like we'd be moving Watkins to right back, he's just be playing slightly wider than he is now, which he is more than capable of. In the place of one of our wingers, who are all abysmal, Traore especially.

Who do you want in the width of the goal though when Traore actually puts in a quality ball? Watkins or Davis?

It's best as a 2 with a diamond.

I'd really rather never see Traore in a Villa shirt again if it's all the same.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on April 10, 2021, 05:30:44 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on April 10, 2021, 05:26:05 PM
Quote from: N'ZMAV on April 10, 2021, 05:24:26 PM
Quote from: Axl Rose on April 10, 2021, 05:03:22 PM
Absolutely no chance of us finishing top 6 with gormless in charge. Get rid.
I don't think there's a real chance of top 6 with any manager at the moment

And that's something we should remember. How many clubs get promoted and finish top six within two years?

It doesn’t need to be top six. But we are literally falling away dramatically. I get we’ve lost our best player but the drop off should not be this extreme. And there is every chance now we will finish in the bottom half with a recently promoted Leeds finishing above us having spent significantly less.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy65 on April 10, 2021, 05:32:49 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on April 10, 2021, 05:22:15 PM
Would you really change the formation and tactics just to accommodate Keinan Davis?

Against a very poor central defence such as Liverpool then yes

We have Been rubbish for weeks and he keeps pickling the same players and tactics. It will cost him
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Legion on April 10, 2021, 05:33:08 PM
Keep it civil please.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on April 10, 2021, 05:33:18 PM
compasred to  last season we've done well - but as you say Leeds are above us having spent considerably less. They do, however, have a wonferfully talented manager.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nii Lamptey on April 10, 2021, 05:35:05 PM
Bit feisty on here at the minute, so bracing myself for the Dean Smith love-in brigade.

I commented last week against Fulham that Dean Smith got lucky with his subs last week and got jumped on. His tactics/formation/substitutions did little to dispell my belief today that he doesn't actually know what he's doing.

Anyone with eyes could see that the formation and tactics that he drags out game after game after game were not working again today (despite going in with a very lucky 1-0 lead). He has a huge mountain of a forward on the bench who changed the game last week, and would have been the perfect foil up front for Ollie today, yet he completely ignores him and brings on Ross Barkley?!

Traore offered nothing from the first minute till injury forced Smith's hand, and he brings El Ghazi on?!?! Is he suddenly going to turn into the Dutch Ronaldo on recent showings?? Of course not! Traore should have been hooked at HT and replaced with Keinan - Give Klopp and the nauseatingly biased Sky commentary something else to think about.

To switch Nakamba for Barkley was footballing suicide. 'Most' of the players were up for it today - Dean Smith lost us that match, and not many of you could deny that fact.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on April 10, 2021, 05:35:30 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on April 10, 2021, 05:22:15 PM
Would you really change the formation and tactics just to accommodate Keinan Davis?
Yes I would for two reasons. 1. While Jack is out play a different way. 2. Davis should be given a run of games till the end of the season to see what he can do and if that proves he's not ready then loan him out to a good Championship club next season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Stu on April 10, 2021, 05:36:47 PM
Why are we comparing ourselves to Leeds? They're doing well, relatively, for the first time in nearly 20 years. Once Bielsa goes they'll be back in the second division, jeez
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on April 10, 2021, 05:37:17 PM
Way too stuck with the 4-3-3, so much so that he played Ramsey there just so he could keep that formation. Surely one of the other 3 on the touch line must of thought Ramsey as a Winger was a daft call and told him so?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on April 10, 2021, 05:38:05 PM
Quote from: Stu on April 10, 2021, 05:36:47 PM
Why are we comparing ourselves to Leeds? They're doing well, relatively, for the first time in nearly 20 years. Once Bielsa goes they'll be back in the second division, jeez

Because people keep making out that 10th is a miracle after two seasons back in the Premier League.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on April 10, 2021, 05:38:06 PM
Quote from: mr underhill on April 10, 2021, 05:33:18 PM
compasred to  last season we've done well - but as you say Leeds are above us having spent considerably less. They do, however, have a wonferfully talented manager.

They also haven't lost their best player for 2 months or had a major covid outbreak to deal with. I think those 2 things have cost us 8-10 points and turned us from challenging hard for the top 4 to being stuck in midtable.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on April 10, 2021, 05:38:26 PM
Quote from: olaftab on April 10, 2021, 05:35:30 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on April 10, 2021, 05:22:15 PM
Would you really change the formation and tactics just to accommodate Keinan Davis?
Yes I would for two reasons. 1. While Jack is out play a different way. 2. Davis should be given a run of games till the end of the season to see what he can do and if that proves he's not ready then loan him out to a good Championship club next season.

I agree that we should maybe try to see what he can do, but I don't think today was the right time. And I can just imagine the reaction if his inherent Keinan Davisness had been evident for too long.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Axl Rose on April 10, 2021, 05:38:34 PM
Quote from: Ads on April 10, 2021, 05:26:38 PM
Quote from: Axl Rose on April 10, 2021, 05:17:26 PM
Quote from: Ads on April 10, 2021, 05:11:54 PM
Quote from: Axl Rose on April 10, 2021, 05:10:45 PM
Quote from: Ads on April 10, 2021, 05:04:22 PM
Yes, let's sack a manager because we haven't gone from 17th to 6th in a season.

I agree with you.

By the way, you don't have to defend him in every post that he's condemned. You aren't friends.

Thanks for the advice, step up from crying and calling me a twat.

I'm not entirely sure about the crying part, but the character description, I stand by. You won't be getting an apology that's for sure.

Please don't talk to me. I'm only just back from a ban and I'd prefer not to interact with you





Nearly half 1 in the morning and you're sniding on about somebody you've never met. Send your PMs, have a bitch, have a drink and relax.

:)

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on April 10, 2021, 05:39:26 PM
Quote from: Stu on April 10, 2021, 05:36:47 PM
Why are we comparing ourselves to Leeds? They're doing well, relatively, for the first time in nearly 20 years. Once Bielsa goes they'll be back in the second division, jeez

If the point is being made that in our second season up we should be doing better then comparing to a Leeds side that has spent a lot less and are up in their first season isn’t out of context. Normally they slow down in the second half of the season but if you look at their results, not just today they are every bit as consistent and arguably more resilient now than at the start. Based on form they will finish top 10 comfortably.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on April 10, 2021, 05:41:38 PM
Quote from: Risso on April 10, 2021, 05:38:05 PM
Quote from: Stu on April 10, 2021, 05:36:47 PM
Why are we comparing ourselves to Leeds? They're doing well, relatively, for the first time in nearly 20 years. Once Bielsa goes they'll be back in the second division, jeez

Because people keep making out that 10th is a miracle after two seasons back in the Premier League.

Has anyone said its a miracle or are they saying it's progress on last year? The misery from some on here is unbelievable.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 10, 2021, 05:41:48 PM
Quote from: Nii Lamptey on April 10, 2021, 05:35:05 PM
Bit feisty on here at the minute, so bracing myself for the Dean Smith love-in brigade.

I commented last week against Fulham that Dean Smith got lucky with his subs last week and got jumped on. His tactics/formation/substitutions did little to dispell my belief today that he doesn't actually know what he's doing.

Anyone with eyes could see that the formation and tactics that he drags out game after game after game were not working again today (despite going in with a very lucky 1-0 lead). He has a huge mountain of a forward on the bench who changed the game last week, and would have been the perfect foil up front for Ollie today, yet he completely ignores him and brings on Ross Barkley?!

Traore offered nothing from the first minute till injury forced Smith's hand, and he brings El Ghazi on?!?! Is he suddenly going to turn into the Dutch Ronaldo on recent showings?? Of course not! Traore should have been hooked at HT and replaced with Keinan - Give Klopp and the nauseatingly biased Sky commentary something else to think about.

To switch Nakamba for Barkley was footballing suicide. 'Most' of the players were up for it today - Dean Smith lost us that match, and not many of you could deny that fact.
spot on
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on April 10, 2021, 05:41:51 PM
Quote from: Legion on April 10, 2021, 05:33:08 PM
Keep it civil please.
Quite right Legion and that includes someone that does his utmost to antagonize other posters at every opportunity ;)
And as for Smith and a change of tactics ........What tactics?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on April 10, 2021, 05:43:23 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on April 10, 2021, 05:39:26 PM
Quote from: Stu on April 10, 2021, 05:36:47 PM
Why are we comparing ourselves to Leeds? They're doing well, relatively, for the first time in nearly 20 years. Once Bielsa goes they'll be back in the second division, jeez

If the point is being made that in our second season up we should be doing better then comparing to a Leeds side that has spent a lot less and are up in their first season isn’t out of context. Normally they slow down in the second half of the season but if you look at their results, not just today they are every bit as consistent and arguably more resilient now than at the start. Based on form they will finish top 10 comfortably.

Who cares about Leeds? Good luck to them. We're above sides who been in the league for years. So what? We're having a good season, making good progress. We're deficient up front, as SHQ identifies. The defence/attack balance is dramatic.

Without Jack and Olie, what else is there you can rely upon consistently? That's where we improve. If Leeds ceiling over the next 5 years matches our then absolutely fair play, great for sport that they can compete with financial dopers like us. If not, oh well, we won't care.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SaddVillan on April 10, 2021, 05:43:49 PM
Just getting ready to head off down to join the mob on Trinity Road with my pikestaff calling for Smith's head.

But stopped to consider this:

2018 - appointed manager
2019 - play off promotion winners
2020 - keeps us in the Prem/League Cup runners up
2021 - solid mid table position.

Then I asked myself - how many of today's Villa starting squad would make the Liverpool squad and vice versa?

Decided to put the pikestaff back in the shed.

We clearly don't have sufficient in tems of individual quality or strength in depth.

Smith could be doing better, but given what he has to work with, I'm not going to complain too much.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Axl Rose on April 10, 2021, 05:44:28 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on April 10, 2021, 05:41:51 PM
Quote from: Legion on April 10, 2021, 05:33:08 PM
Keep it civil please.
Quite right Legion and that includes someone that does his utmost to antagonize other posters at every opportunity ;)
And as for Smith and a change of tactics ........What tactics?

He'll never win. He isn't clever enough.

Clive, how are doing mate? It's been a while!


Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy65 on April 10, 2021, 05:44:42 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on April 10, 2021, 05:38:26 PM
Quote from: olaftab on April 10, 2021, 05:35:30 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on April 10, 2021, 05:22:15 PM
Would you really change the formation and tactics just to accommodate Keinan Davis?
Yes I would for two reasons. 1. While Jack is out play a different way. 2. Davis should be given a run of games till the end of the season to see what he can do and if that proves he's not ready then loan him out to a good Championship club next season.

I agree that we should maybe try to see what he can do, but I don't think today was the right time. And I can just imagine the reaction if his inherent Keinan Davisness had been evident for too long.

So what are you waiting for? Today we were playing a team who had lost the last 6 at home, lost in the week and are under pressure from their fans and media etc. Their 2 CH’s are awful and confidence on the floor. I think today was a perfect opportunity.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on April 10, 2021, 05:44:43 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on April 10, 2021, 05:39:26 PM
Quote from: Stu on April 10, 2021, 05:36:47 PM
Why are we comparing ourselves to Leeds? They're doing well, relatively, for the first time in nearly 20 years. Once Bielsa goes they'll be back in the second division, jeez

If the point is being made that in our second season up we should be doing better then comparing to a Leeds side that has spent a lot less and are up in their first season isn’t out of context. Normally they slow down in the second half of the season but if you look at their results, not just today they are every bit as consistent and arguably more resilient now than at the start. Based on form they will finish top 10 comfortably.

Yeah there's nothing wrong with wanting to do a little better sometimes.

In last 3-4 years Wolves, Burnley, Sheffield United, Newcastle and now potentially Leeds have all been newly promoted and finished between 7th-10th in the league a year or so after coming up so it's not some impossible feat.

It's o.k to want to finish higher than 11th. Seems I'm saying it every other post but we have one of the best defences in the league after all. Reminds me of what john e says on here, seems there's still a mentality around of grateful just not to be in relegation battles every year, there's nothing wrong with wanting a little bit more from seasons sometimes particularly as we were in a very good position at the start of Feb and it's just fizzled out.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on April 10, 2021, 05:45:28 PM
Quote from: Axl Rose on April 10, 2021, 05:44:28 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on April 10, 2021, 05:41:51 PM
Quote from: Legion on April 10, 2021, 05:33:08 PM
Keep it civil please.
Quite right Legion and that includes someone that does his utmost to antagonize other posters at every opportunity ;)
And as for Smith and a change of tactics ........What tactics?

He'll never win. He isn't clever enough.

Clive, how are doing mate? It's been a while!




Clever enough to be living rent free.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on April 10, 2021, 05:46:11 PM
Quote from: SaddVillan on April 10, 2021, 05:43:49 PM
Just getting ready to head off down to join the mob on Trinity Road with my pikestaff calling for Smith's head.

But stopped to consider this:

2018 - appointed manager
2019 - play off promotion winners
2020 - keeps us in the Prem/League Cup runners up
2021 - solid mid table position.

Then I asked myself - how many of today's Villa starting squad would make the Liverpool squad and vice versa?

Decided to put the pikestaff back in the shed.

We clearly don't have sufficient in tems of individual quality or strength in depth.

Smith could be doing better, but given what he has to work with, I'm not going to complain too much.

I agree with SaddVillan.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Uknowthescore on April 10, 2021, 05:47:02 PM
He’s spent nearly 200 million in 2 years and we still look like relegation fodder without grealish.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Stu on April 10, 2021, 05:48:14 PM
Lads, it's Leeds. We'll be here long after they've fucked off again.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy65 on April 10, 2021, 05:49:08 PM
Quote from: Uknowthescore on April 10, 2021, 05:47:02 PM
He’s spent nearly 200 million in 2 years and we still look like relegation fodder without grealish.

He won’t be trusted with another £200m
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nunkin1965 on April 10, 2021, 05:49:35 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on April 10, 2021, 05:46:11 PM
Quote from: SaddVillan on April 10, 2021, 05:43:49 PM
Just getting ready to head off down to join the mob on Trinity Road with my pikestaff calling for Smith's head.

But stopped to consider this:

2018 - appointed manager
2019 - play off promotion winners
2020 - keeps us in the Prem/League Cup runners up
2021 - solid mid table position.

Then I asked myself - how many of today's Villa starting squad would make the Liverpool squad and vice versa?

Decided to put the pikestaff back in the shed.

We clearly don't have sufficient in tems of individual quality or strength in depth.

Smith could be doing better, but given what he has to work with, I'm not going to complain too much.

I agree with SaddVillan.
Yep me too.
My pitchfork is staying in the shed and the paraffin to light my torch is staying in its appropriate storage thingy.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on April 10, 2021, 05:54:30 PM
Jesus wept.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Axl Rose on April 10, 2021, 05:58:34 PM
Quote from: Ads on April 10, 2021, 05:45:28 PM
Quote from: Axl Rose on April 10, 2021, 05:44:28 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on April 10, 2021, 05:41:51 PM
Quote from: Legion on April 10, 2021, 05:33:08 PM
Keep it civil please.
Quite right Legion and that includes someone that does his utmost to antagonize other posters at every opportunity ;)
And as for Smith and a change of tactics ........What tactics?

He'll never win. He isn't clever enough.

Clive, how are doing mate? It's been a while!




Clever enough to be living rent free.

Oh dear.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on April 10, 2021, 06:01:26 PM
Quote from: SaddVillan on April 10, 2021, 05:43:49 PM
Then I asked myself - how many of today's Villa starting squad would make the Liverpool squad and vice versa?

Decided to put the pikestaff back in the shed.

We clearly don't have sufficient in tems of individual quality or strength in depth.

Smith could be doing better, but given what he has to work with, I'm not going to complain too much.

How many of the Brighton, Burnley or Fulham players would get in their squad? Compared to those 3 Dean is blessed with his squad. What he needs to do is mix it up when things aren't going right but he has a record at least as far back as his Brentford days of going on long, poor runs due to being tactically inflexible.

That said, I love everything about him except the football this year. It really is turning out to be a season of two halves. If we want to be pushing up in the top half of the table next season he's got to add a few more strings to his bow. He's surrounded himself with experience and knowledge, I just hope he doesn't blow the opportunity by what I can only see as stubbornness.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on April 10, 2021, 06:04:38 PM
I think if the season finished now, I'd sit back and say it could have been a whole lot better but overall, we've made some steady progress, there's been plenty of positives and there are things we can take into next season. We'll need to step up though and I think everyone realises that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: RamboandBruno on April 10, 2021, 06:05:16 PM
Quote from: Rudy65 on April 10, 2021, 05:49:08 PM
Quote from: Uknowthescore on April 10, 2021, 05:47:02 PM
He’s spent nearly 200 million in 2 years and we still look like relegation fodder without grealish.

He won’t be trusted with another £200m

And you know this how?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on April 10, 2021, 06:11:07 PM
Right now for me what is most frustrating is that Dean Smith is acting like he stumbled upon a formation that has proven itself to work much of the time, but come hell or high water he won’t or doesn’t know how to change it when it doesn’t. So he keeps with it irrespective of the fact that other sides have scouted it and in most instances completely nullified it.

Having endured so much shit even during MON and certainly since, what we all hoped for when we arrived is that he would be astute enough to have different approaches in his repertoire. That he would be open minded enough to change not just players but systems based on the opponent and the in game situation. There is little evidence right now that he can do that or what is absolutely obvious, that if he doesn’t have Jack he really doesn’t know how to get the others to a level to compete against most sides in the league.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nii Lamptey on April 10, 2021, 06:11:29 PM
Quote from: SaddVillan on April 10, 2021, 05:43:49 PM
Just getting ready to head off down to join the mob on Trinity Road with my pikestaff calling for Smith's head.

But stopped to consider this:

2018 - appointed manager
2019 - play off promotion winners
2020 - keeps us in the Prem/League Cup runners up
2021 - solid mid table position.

Then I asked myself - how many of today's Villa starting squad would make the Liverpool squad and vice versa?

Decided to put the pikestaff back in the shed.

We clearly don't have sufficient in tems of individual quality or strength in depth.

Smith could be doing better, but given what he has to work with, I'm not going to complain too much.

2018 - Appointed manager 10 October 2018, taking over from Spud head.
2019 - Won just 2 out of 14 matches without Grealish (just SIX OUT OF FORTY TWO POINTS?!!), despite having one of the costliest squads in the 2nd tier of English football, before Grealish returned from injury and dragged us back into the Premier League as Playoff promotion winners with a 10 game winning run.
2020 - Somehow claw our way to a second season in the Premier League
2021 - 3 seasons later, he still doesn't have the foggiest how to put out a team that doesn't include Jack Grealish.

Dean Smith is paid to do a job - A job that he SHOULD be doing better. He's persevered with a formation and tactics that hasn't worked for nearly 4 months.
He stumbled on a winning formation and lineup last week, which would have been perfect today, yet he reverts to the same dysfunctional 'Smith 11' against the Champions who 1) Were there for the taking today if we'd put out the right team and 2) Weren't going to sit down and take it lightly, based off our previous encounter.

His inability to change a game or spot players who aren't contributing or are liabilities is becoming increasingly worrying.

Yes, we're doing better than a lot of us expected after last season's debacle, but that's because the bar was set way lower than it should have been. We could (and should!) be doing better.



Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy65 on April 10, 2021, 06:22:22 PM
Quote from: RamboandBruno on April 10, 2021, 06:05:16 PM
Quote from: Rudy65 on April 10, 2021, 05:49:08 PM
Quote from: Uknowthescore on April 10, 2021, 05:47:02 PM
He’s spent nearly 200 million in 2 years and we still look like relegation fodder without grealish.

He won’t be trusted with another £200m

And you know this how?

Generally because billionaire owners don’t have much tolerance for mediocrity
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on April 10, 2021, 06:22:58 PM
Quote from: Nii Lamptey on April 10, 2021, 06:11:29 PM
Quote from: SaddVillan on April 10, 2021, 05:43:49 PM
Just getting ready to head off down to join the mob on Trinity Road with my pikestaff calling for Smith's head.

But stopped to consider this:

2018 - appointed manager
2019 - play off promotion winners
2020 - keeps us in the Prem/League Cup runners up
2021 - solid mid table position.

Then I asked myself - how many of today's Villa starting squad would make the Liverpool squad and vice versa?

Decided to put the pikestaff back in the shed.

We clearly don't have sufficient in tems of individual quality or strength in depth.

Smith could be doing better, but given what he has to work with, I'm not going to complain too much.

2018 - Appointed manager 10 October 2018, taking over from Spud head.
2019 - Won just 2 out of 14 matches without Grealish (just SIX OUT OF FORTY TWO POINTS?!!), despite having one of the costliest squads in the 2nd tier of English football, before Grealish returned from injury and dragged us back into the Premier League as Playoff promotion winners with a 10 game winning run.
2020 - Somehow claw our way to a second season in the Premier League
2021 - 3 seasons later, he still doesn't have the foggiest how to put out a team that doesn't include Jack Grealish.

Dean Smith is paid to do a job - A job that he SHOULD be doing better. He's persevered with a formation and tactics that hasn't worked for nearly 4 months.
He stumbled on a winning formation and lineup last week, which would have been perfect today, yet he reverts to the same dysfunctional 'Smith 11' against the Champions who 1) Were there for the taking today if we'd put out the right team and 2) Weren't going to sit down and take it lightly, based off our previous encounter.

His inability to change a game or spot players who aren't contributing or are liabilities is becoming increasingly worrying.

Yes, we're doing better than a lot of us expected after last season's debacle, but that's because the bar was set way lower than it should have been. We could (and should!) be doing better.

This just reads like you're upset that he managed to achieve his goals when it looked like he might not, which is a very strange way to look at it.

His first year he wasn't even set a target a promotion so he over-achieved. His second year I doubt anyone would've demanded more than staying up and this season the consensus (almost everywhere) was that safely in midtable with games to spare would be a good season and that's exactly where we are.

So many people on here are happy to stick the boot in for him not changing the shape or not making subs early enough, etc but they'd all be just as critical if we were changing the shape game after game and not winning so I just don't buy it. Just be honest with yourselves, you want to win more games and are upset that it isn't happening and you then latch on to anything you can see to explain how we'd do it if only Smith did exactly what you think he should.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nii Lamptey on April 10, 2021, 06:36:12 PM
Quote from: paul_e on April 10, 2021, 06:22:58 PM
This just reads like you're upset that he managed to achieve his goals when it looked like he might not, which is a very strange way to look at it.

His first year he wasn't even set a target a promotion so he over-achieved. His second year I doubt anyone would've demanded more than staying up and this season the consensus (almost everywhere) was that safely in midtable with games to spare would be a good season and that's exactly where we are.

So many people on here are happy to stick the boot in for him not changing the shape or not making subs early enough, etc but they'd all be just as critical if we were changing the shape game after game and not winning so I just don't buy it. Just be honest with yourselves, you want to win more games and are upset that it isn't happening and you then latch on to anything you can see to explain how we'd do it if only Smith did exactly what you think he should.

You're wrong - Most of us would love nothing more than to see Dean Smith succeed at Villa. We just don't feel as optimistic about his prospects as some on here.

Could most of us honestly say that if we had seen our team perform abysmally for 4 months straight with no clue or answers, and then suddenly stumble on a lineup and formation where everything just clicked, you wouldn't try and bottle that and use it to your advantage in the next game?

I'm in utter disbelief that Barkley came on instead of Keinan Davis today. I truly think that we would have won that game if we'd have put out the Villa team that finished the Fulham game.

Years of failure have lead us to accept times like these, and should 'count ourselves lucky' we're in the position we're in. What's the point in that - We're fans of a team who play competitive sport? I want to see entertaining football and WIN things - Why bother otherwise?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on April 10, 2021, 06:36:53 PM
We haven't been abysmal for 4 months. We weren't abysmal today.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on April 10, 2021, 06:42:01 PM
Quote from: Nii Lamptey on April 10, 2021, 06:36:12 PM
Quote from: paul_e on April 10, 2021, 06:22:58 PM
This just reads like you're upset that he managed to achieve his goals when it looked like he might not, which is a very strange way to look at it.

His first year he wasn't even set a target a promotion so he over-achieved. His second year I doubt anyone would've demanded more than staying up and this season the consensus (almost everywhere) was that safely in midtable with games to spare would be a good season and that's exactly where we are.

So many people on here are happy to stick the boot in for him not changing the shape or not making subs early enough, etc but they'd all be just as critical if we were changing the shape game after game and not winning so I just don't buy it. Just be honest with yourselves, you want to win more games and are upset that it isn't happening and you then latch on to anything you can see to explain how we'd do it if only Smith did exactly what you think he should.

You're wrong - Most of us would love nothing more than to see Dean Smith succeed at Villa. We just don't feel as optimistic about his prospects as some on here.

Could most of us honestly say that if we had seen our team perform abysmally for 4 months straight with no clue or answers, and then suddenly stumble on a lineup and formation where everything just clicked, you wouldn't try and bottle that and use it to your advantage in the next game?

I'm in utter disbelief that Barkley came on instead of Keinan Davis today. I truly think that we would have won that game if we'd have put out the Villa team that finished the Fulham game.

Years of failure have lead us to accept times like these, and should 'count ourselves lucky' we're in the position we're in. What's the point in that - We're fans of a team who play competitive sport? I want to see entertaining football and WIN things - Why bother otherwise?


He's succeeded though?

The remit when he came in was to get us up and keep us up and he's done that. There was nothing saying we had to win the championship with 100 points and as frustrating and poor as last season was at times again we just about made it.

This season I'd have happily settled for mid table back in September and again we've comfortably achieved that. Just never thought our defensive would be the best it's been in over a decade so to me when you post top 6 defensive stats you need to be in the shake up and in the end we'll finish well short of that.

My reservations are simply whether we'll ever finish say 6th with him as manager and do stuff like qualify for europe and actually win something. These are long term goals of pretty much everyone on here and the owners and Purslow so I think now it's a case of people with long term question marks like me (especially if Grealish moves on in next 2 years) and wondering how many years we need to wait to find out.

Big summer ahead regardless with recruitment as this is the tough part to get right.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on April 10, 2021, 06:43:03 PM
Quote from: Uknowthescore on April 10, 2021, 05:47:02 PM
He’s spent nearly 200 million in 2 years and we still look like relegation fodder without grealish.

Played 25
Won 4
Drawn 9
Lost 12
For 26
Against 39.
Points 21
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nii Lamptey on April 10, 2021, 06:43:37 PM
Quote from: Ads on April 10, 2021, 06:36:53 PM
We haven't been abysmal for 4 months. We weren't abysmal today.

Absymal is probably a little strong a word as defensively we've been excellent.... but we should be winning way more games than we have been. Way too many missed opportunities through lack of flexibility in tactics/formation/personel.

'Blunt' is probably more apt a word.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on April 10, 2021, 06:46:16 PM
One of the youngest squads in the league says the future is bright.
This view that he's just lucky to have a Grealish and doesn't really have much of a clue is a bit like saying Graham Taylor was just lucky to have Platt.
My pikestaff and bedsheet are staying locked away.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on April 10, 2021, 06:47:11 PM
Quote from: Axl Rose on April 10, 2021, 05:44:28 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on April 10, 2021, 05:41:51 PM
Quote from: Legion on April 10, 2021, 05:33:08 PM
Keep it civil please.
Quite right Legion and that includes someone that does his utmost to antagonize other posters at every opportunity ;)
And as for Smith and a change of tactics ........What tactics?

He'll never win. He isn't clever enough.

Clive, how are doing mate? It's been a while!



all good thanks buddy ...hope you are too
Some things don't change do they?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on April 10, 2021, 06:47:22 PM
In the past 10 games we've won 3, drawn 3 and lost 4, taking 1.2 points per game in the process; we've become very mid-table.

I think COVID has had an impact on us as much as anything.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on April 10, 2021, 06:50:16 PM
Quote from: Ads on April 10, 2021, 06:36:53 PM
We haven't been abysmal for 4 months. We weren't abysmal today.

4 months ago we were in the middle of a run that would earn Smith the manager of the month award.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: RamboandBruno on April 10, 2021, 06:53:22 PM
Quote from: paul_e on April 10, 2021, 06:22:58 PM
Quote from: Nii Lamptey on April 10, 2021, 06:11:29 PM
Quote from: SaddVillan on April 10, 2021, 05:43:49 PM
Just getting ready to head off down to join the mob on Trinity Road with my pikestaff calling for Smith's head.

But stopped to consider this:

2018 - appointed manager
2019 - play off promotion winners
2020 - keeps us in the Prem/League Cup runners up
2021 - solid mid table position.

Then I asked myself - how many of today's Villa starting squad would make the Liverpool squad and vice versa?

Decided to put the pikestaff back in the shed.

We clearly don't have sufficient in tems of individual quality or strength in depth.

Smith could be doing better, but given what he has to work with, I'm not going to complain too much.

2018 - Appointed manager 10 October 2018, taking over from Spud head.
2019 - Won just 2 out of 14 matches without Grealish (just SIX OUT OF FORTY TWO POINTS?!!), despite having one of the costliest squads in the 2nd tier of English football, before Grealish returned from injury and dragged us back into the Premier League as Playoff promotion winners with a 10 game winning run.
2020 - Somehow claw our way to a second season in the Premier League
2021 - 3 seasons later, he still doesn't have the foggiest how to put out a team that doesn't include Jack Grealish.

Dean Smith is paid to do a job - A job that he SHOULD be doing better. He's persevered with a formation and tactics that hasn't worked for nearly 4 months.
He stumbled on a winning formation and lineup last week, which would have been perfect today, yet he reverts to the same dysfunctional 'Smith 11' against the Champions who 1) Were there for the taking today if we'd put out the right team and 2) Weren't going to sit down and take it lightly, based off our previous encounter.

His inability to change a game or spot players who aren't contributing or are liabilities is becoming increasingly worrying.

Yes, we're doing better than a lot of us expected after last season's debacle, but that's because the bar was set way lower than it should have been. We could (and should!) be doing better.

This just reads like you're upset that he managed to achieve his goals when it looked like he might not, which is a very strange way to look at it.

His first year he wasn't even set a target a promotion so he over-achieved. His second year I doubt anyone would've demanded more than staying up and this season the consensus (almost everywhere) was that safely in midtable with games to spare would be a good season and that's exactly where we are.

So many people on here are happy to stick the boot in for him not changing the shape or not making subs early enough, etc but they'd all be just as critical if we were changing the shape game after game and not winning so I just don't buy it. Just be honest with yourselves, you want to win more games and are upset that it isn't happening and you then latch on to anything you can see to explain how we'd do it if only Smith did exactly what you think he should.

I think Smith could of done some things better in his time mangling villa and it’s true our record is much better with a Grealish in the side. But you know, no shit Sherlock, he’s our best player by a mile, and let’s see other teams do without their best player for such lengthy periods. I would guess Spurs would be around where we are without Kane for the same period this season.

I think it’s fairly clear now that we have a reasonably good season largely down the defence, which is light years away from where it was. That defence has been built by smith and his team since we came up, apart from Mings. Surely he gets credit for that? 

Smiths done the job that’s been asked of him so far and to only look at the positive periods being down to Grealish is a bit harsh.
Saying that, I think it’s clear the wingers aren’t performing consistently enough and therefore he does need to be more flexible and use Davis maybe a bit more.
Only Man City next then!!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clive W on April 10, 2021, 06:54:40 PM
Didn’t watch the game but followed it on the match thread here.

We were obviously rubbish, no better off than a couple of seasons ago and DS should be sacked tomorrow.

Then I looked at the match summaries on BBC and Daily Telegraph websites. They were all complimentary about us; an entertaining match that could have gone either way.

So now I’m confused
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: London Villan on April 10, 2021, 06:56:41 PM
We currently have a top 6 defence, but without Jack a bottom 3 attack - Watkins is feeding on scraps and still managing to score.

Today would have been a great opportunity to try something different, nothing to lose. We don't change anything and we lose anyway.

We'll be lucky to get 50 points - which is a shame, based on where we were at Christmas. £100 in the summer should buy us some more firepower.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Lastfootstamper on April 10, 2021, 06:56:42 PM
Quote from: Nii Lamptey on April 10, 2021, 06:43:37 PM
Quote from: Ads on April 10, 2021, 06:36:53 PM
We haven't been abysmal for 4 months. We weren't abysmal today.

Absymal is probably a little strong a word as defensively we've been excellent.... but we should be winning way more games than we have been. Way too many missed opportunities through lack of flexibility in tactics/formation/personel.

'Blunt' is probably more apt a word.

I'd certainly agree with 'blunt'. For all their possession and efforts, we had some glaring opportunities to score perhaps three that they would have put away with their better players in the first half today. Some weak efforts from us.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on April 10, 2021, 06:59:06 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on April 10, 2021, 06:43:03 PM
Quote from: Uknowthescore on April 10, 2021, 05:47:02 PM
He’s spent nearly 200 million in 2 years and we still look like relegation fodder without grealish.

Played 25
Won 4
Drawn 9
Lost 12
For 26
Against 39.
Points 21

I don't really see the point of this, ignoring that you picking stats spread over 3 seasons in completely different circumstances it's just a pointless thing to do. All it shows is that Grealish is a bit good, it hardly makes you Sherlock Holmes to point that out.

Liverpool have struggled without VVD, does that make the rest of their squad shit? Does it make Klopp shit?
Man City started the season badly with KDB out and trying to find his fitness, again does that mean everything else there is shit?

I pick those clubs as examples because whilst they were doing better without a key player than we have they still dropped points, even with league winning squads.


Quote from: Ads on April 10, 2021, 06:47:22 PM
I think COVID has had an impact on us as much as anything.


I agree completely with this, the difference in how we play before and after covid is the key split this season. Jack getting injured has just added to an already poor spell. We got 10 points from 7 in the spell between the quarantine and Jack getting injured, and 8 in 8 since. Before that we'd got 26 in 15. On top of that we were averaging 2 goals a game before and we've averaged less than 1 a game since. I posted somewhere earlier I reckon covid will have cost us about 8-10 points by the time the season finishes.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OCD on April 10, 2021, 06:59:26 PM
Quote from: Clive W on April 10, 2021, 06:54:40 PM
Didn’t watch the game but followed it on the match thread here.

We were obviously rubbish, no better off than a couple of seasons ago and DS should be sacked tomorrow.

Then I looked at the match summaries on BBC and Daily Telegraph websites. They were all complimentary about us; an entertaining match that could have gone either way.

So now I’m confused

Easy one. Don't use the match thread to get a sense of what happened. We're all Villa through to the bone and take each defeat to heart.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clive W on April 10, 2021, 07:05:07 PM
Quote from: OCD on April 10, 2021, 06:59:26 PM
Quote from: Clive W on April 10, 2021, 06:54:40 PM
Didn’t watch the game but followed it on the match thread here.

We were obviously rubbish, no better off than a couple of seasons ago and DS should be sacked tomorrow.

Then I looked at the match summaries on BBC and Daily Telegraph websites. They were all complimentary about us; an entertaining match that could have gone either way.

So now I’m confused

Easy one. Don't use the match thread to get a sense of what happened. We're all Villa through to the bone and take each defeat to heart.

I know mate. I’ve been following us for 60 years so I’ve seen enough defeats to wonder how I’ve got any heart left!!

However, a bit of objectivity here wouldn’t go amiss.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nunkin1965 on April 10, 2021, 07:10:15 PM
If some supporters are becoming critical of the manager maybe some of that criticism should be directed at the owners?
After all if what Smith is overseeing is so bad why haven't they removed him?
Ridiculous right?
They are clearly comfortable at the overall progress being made otherwise a decision would have been made by now.
There will clearly be an injection of quality in the summer and of course the manager, or any manager is under more pressure to get results.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on April 10, 2021, 07:21:43 PM
Quote from: paul_e on April 10, 2021, 06:59:06 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on April 10, 2021, 06:43:03 PM
Quote from: Uknowthescore on April 10, 2021, 05:47:02 PM
He’s spent nearly 200 million in 2 years and we still look like relegation fodder without grealish.

Played 25
Won 4
Drawn 9
Lost 12
For 26
Against 39.
Points 21

I don't really see the point of this, ignoring that you picking stats spread over 3 seasons in completely different circumstances it's just a pointless thing to do. All it shows is that Grealish is a bit good, it hardly makes you Sherlock Holmes to point that out.

I'm not picking pointless stats, im stating our record under Smith without Grealish, which is related to the point I quoted.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: richtheholtender on April 10, 2021, 07:29:55 PM
My only negative towards smith is his reluctance to change. We are still playing the same formation than the day he walked in. Playing that formation without Jack just means we’re just a weaker version of us so we may as well have taken the opportunity to change it. The only time I really recall him doing it was Fulham last week when we went two up top and look how that worked out.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brazilian Villain on April 10, 2021, 07:31:26 PM
Quote from: Uknowthescore on April 10, 2021, 05:47:02 PM
He’s spent nearly 200 million in 2 years and we still look like relegation fodder without grealish.

Seeing someone use the phrase 'relegation fodder' after the progress we've made in the last 2 years certainly gives me food for thought.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on April 10, 2021, 07:33:25 PM
Rotherham was the obvious one for me, granted they are nowhere near our level but he changed our whole shape with 10 men to change the game round. I thought we had a fluid progressive manager so its slightly dissapointing that he's now so set on one formation and style with no sign of change no matter what the circumstances.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on April 10, 2021, 07:45:43 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on April 10, 2021, 07:21:43 PM
Quote from: paul_e on April 10, 2021, 06:59:06 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on April 10, 2021, 06:43:03 PM
Quote from: Uknowthescore on April 10, 2021, 05:47:02 PM
He’s spent nearly 200 million in 2 years and we still look like relegation fodder without grealish.

Played 25
Won 4
Drawn 9
Lost 12
For 26
Against 39.
Points 21

I don't really see the point of this, ignoring that you picking stats spread over 3 seasons in completely different circumstances it's just a pointless thing to do. All it shows is that Grealish is a bit good, it hardly makes you Sherlock Holmes to point that out.

I'm not picking pointless stats, im stating our record under Smith without Grealish, which is related to the point I quoted.

I know what you're stating, doesn't make it valuable though because you can't use them to offer any meaningful insights, it's just a stick to beat the manager with. In the bit you've cut away I gave some stats just for this season which show pretty clearly that the covid quarantine had a much bigger impact than losing Jack. The majority of the other games in your stats were in the championship and everything about the league and squad at that time was so different that there's just no comparison to offer.

Where we have missed Jack in this run is that him not being double or triple marked has meant there hasn't been so many gaps elsewhere and that has made us easier to defend against because we aren't moving players around as much. I don't think that's something that we can easily fix by changing to a 442 or by dropping every player that has a bad game.

I'm not saying Smith hasn't made mistakes, I'm just saying that there are loads of people on here, with no pressure on them to get things right; no way on knowing how their ideas would've changed things and a huge dollop of hindsight, that are trying really hard to convince everyone that Smith is useless and cherry picking stats to fit that whilst ignoring the fact that he has never failed to meet a goal he's been set since he joined. Every time we have a few bad performances the same people make the same arguments and forget that they've been proven wrong repeatedly. How long will it be before Smith can have a run of poor performances without it happening because it's 3 1/2 years now and it's got really fucking repetitive.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AV82EC on April 10, 2021, 07:46:48 PM
Its not impossible to hold the position that Smith has done a very good job overall for the past 2.5 years but some of his week to week decisions are fucking infuriating. As others have said the middle of next season is the time to judge his overall ability to drive the owners/our ambitions for the longer term particularly if the money is forthcoming this summer again. There comes a point when the owners will want to see a level of consistency in performance where extended runs of poor form just aren't acceptable and lead to one outcome. However, we're miles away from that. I'd add to that Smith is learning and hopefully the team he's got around him can help him build the flexibility in approach he needs to really succeed at the next level up. ( A big part of that to be fair is having quality footballers across his squad to deliver his plan something he hasn't currently got)

As people keep banging on about the with/without Grealish issue.

The first time he was out in late 18-early 19 he missed 13 games our record: W2 D7 L4, not great but hardly the disaster it was made out to be and all those draws kept us in touch with the play off chasers so that 4 wins on the bounce had us back in the top 6.

he only missed 2 or 3 games last season which you'd expect anyway in a normal season.

This season he's been out for 8 games and the record is W2 D2 L4 without him so again its lower mid table form but hardly wrist splitting stuff.

I'm still a big Smith fan but he doesn't half infuriate me at times. The time to judge is when he's had another big summer of signings and can he mould a consistent top 6 team.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on April 10, 2021, 08:00:26 PM
Quote from: paul_e on April 10, 2021, 07:45:43 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on April 10, 2021, 07:21:43 PM
Quote from: paul_e on April 10, 2021, 06:59:06 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on April 10, 2021, 06:43:03 PM
Quote from: Uknowthescore on April 10, 2021, 05:47:02 PM
He’s spent nearly 200 million in 2 years and we still look like relegation fodder without grealish.

Played 25
Won 4
Drawn 9
Lost 12
For 26
Against 39.
Points 21

I don't really see the point of this, ignoring that you picking stats spread over 3 seasons in completely different circumstances it's just a pointless thing to do. All it shows is that Grealish is a bit good, it hardly makes you Sherlock Holmes to point that out.

I'm not picking pointless stats, im stating our record under Smith without Grealish, which is related to the point I quoted.

I know what you're stating, doesn't make it valuable though

Well it does because Ive just given a quick copy and paste based on facts. You've stated 3 paragraphs based purely on an opinion.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 10, 2021, 08:01:10 PM
Not sure he will get that long, much depends on how this season pans out and that is when a judgement should be made.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on April 10, 2021, 08:01:40 PM
There is not a chance that he will be sacked.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on April 10, 2021, 08:03:58 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on April 10, 2021, 08:00:26 PM
Quote from: paul_e on April 10, 2021, 07:45:43 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on April 10, 2021, 07:21:43 PM
Quote from: paul_e on April 10, 2021, 06:59:06 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on April 10, 2021, 06:43:03 PM
Quote from: Uknowthescore on April 10, 2021, 05:47:02 PM
He’s spent nearly 200 million in 2 years and we still look like relegation fodder without grealish.

Played 25
Won 4
Drawn 9
Lost 12
For 26
Against 39.
Points 21

I don't really see the point of this, ignoring that you picking stats spread over 3 seasons in completely different circumstances it's just a pointless thing to do. All it shows is that Grealish is a bit good, it hardly makes you Sherlock Holmes to point that out.

I'm not picking pointless stats, im stating our record under Smith without Grealish, which is related to the point I quoted.

I know what you're stating, doesn't make it valuable though

Well it does because Ive just given a quick copy and paste based on facts. You've stated 3 paragraphs based purely on an opinion.

NO YOU HAVEN'T. You've smashed together facts in a way that means fuck all to support your opinion, that's not how it works but I honestly haven't got time to explain why given you refuse to pay attention.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: N'ZMAV on April 10, 2021, 08:04:13 PM
Quote from: Ads on April 10, 2021, 08:01:40 PM
There is not a chance that he will be sacked.
ever?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on April 10, 2021, 08:04:39 PM
Quote from: Ads on April 10, 2021, 08:01:40 PM
There is not a chance that he will be sacked.

Neither should he be.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: N'ZMAV on April 10, 2021, 08:05:49 PM
WTF is going on in these threads lately? so much bitching it reminds me of pissed up Villa fans fighting each other at Wembley....
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LukeJames on April 10, 2021, 08:12:20 PM
Quote from: paul_e on April 10, 2021, 08:03:58 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on April 10, 2021, 08:00:26 PM
Quote from: paul_e on April 10, 2021, 07:45:43 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on April 10, 2021, 07:21:43 PM
Quote from: paul_e on April 10, 2021, 06:59:06 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on April 10, 2021, 06:43:03 PM
Quote from: Uknowthescore on April 10, 2021, 05:47:02 PM
He’s spent nearly 200 million in 2 years and we still look like relegation fodder without grealish.

Played 25
Won 4
Drawn 9
Lost 12
For 26
Against 39.
Points 21

I don't really see the point of this, ignoring that you picking stats spread over 3 seasons in completely different circumstances it's just a pointless thing to do. All it shows is that Grealish is a bit good, it hardly makes you Sherlock Holmes to point that out.

I'm not picking pointless stats, im stating our record under Smith without Grealish, which is related to the point I quoted.

I know what you're stating, doesn't make it valuable though

Well it does because Ive just given a quick copy and paste based on facts. You've stated 3 paragraphs based purely on an opinion.

NO YOU HAVEN'T.

Fucking hell 😂
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 10, 2021, 08:12:28 PM
Quote from: N'ZMAV on April 10, 2021, 08:04:13 PM
Quote from: Ads on April 10, 2021, 08:01:40 PM
There is not a chance that he will be sacked.
ever?
The owners have expressed their intentions and how we finish this season will have a bearing on their thinking  about next season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Des Little on April 10, 2021, 08:13:58 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on April 10, 2021, 08:12:28 PM
Quote from: N'ZMAV on April 10, 2021, 08:04:13 PM
Quote from: Ads on April 10, 2021, 08:01:40 PM
There is not a chance that he will be sacked.
ever?
The owners have expressed their intentions and how we finish this season will have a bearing on their thinking  about next season.


Exactly this, and rightly so if we want to continue the upward trajectory.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on April 10, 2021, 08:15:43 PM
Dean is doing ok, but bloody hell he does need to develop some flexibility when it comes to tactics.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nunkin1965 on April 10, 2021, 08:17:37 PM
Quote from: Des Little on April 10, 2021, 08:13:58 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on April 10, 2021, 08:12:28 PM
Quote from: N'ZMAV on April 10, 2021, 08:04:13 PM
Quote from: Ads on April 10, 2021, 08:01:40 PM
There is not a chance that he will be sacked.
ever?
The owners have expressed their intentions and how we finish this season will have a bearing on their thinking  about next season.


Exactly this, and rightly so if we want to continue the upward trajectory.
All managers get the sack.
Its the only guarantee in the job.
From what I've seen Smith hasn't failed in his job yet.
That may happen in the summer but he's attained all of the goals he's been required to reach in my opinion.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on April 10, 2021, 08:18:26 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on April 10, 2021, 08:15:43 PM
Dean is doing ok, but bloody hell he does need to develop some flexibility when it comes to tactics.

Are you seriously suggesting that 4-3-3 with a sub around 65 minutes every single week isn't the way to go?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Allan C on April 10, 2021, 08:18:44 PM
Quote from: Nunkin1965 on April 10, 2021, 07:10:15 PM
If some supporters are becoming critical of the manager maybe some of that criticism should be directed at the owners?
After all if what Smith is overseeing is so bad why haven't they removed him?
Ridiculous right?
They are clearly comfortable at the overall progress being made otherwise a decision would have been made by now.
There will clearly be an injection of quality in the summer and of course the manager, or any manager is under more pressure to get results.
I agree with this, I think the owners know what they are doing and we are progressing. The proviso is the the manager must also progress or he, like the players will need improving on.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 10, 2021, 08:20:49 PM
Quote from: aj2k77 on April 10, 2021, 08:18:26 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on April 10, 2021, 08:15:43 PM
Dean is doing ok, but bloody hell he does need to develop some flexibility when it comes to tactics.

Are you seriously suggesting that 4-3-3 with a sub around 65 minutes every single week isn't the way to go?
I am sure you are not seeing the full picture. :)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on April 10, 2021, 08:24:13 PM
Quote from: Ads on April 10, 2021, 08:01:40 PM
There is not a chance that he will be sacked.

I love Dean and want him to stay for the foreseeable future, but I keep thinking of this:
https://www.sbnation.com/2018/1/23/16921324/jason-kidd-fired-bucks-coach-reasons-why
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on April 10, 2021, 08:25:59 PM
How much do managers vary? Klopp had lost 6 on the bounce at home, yet today same system, moreorless the same personnel undertaking the same roles.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on April 10, 2021, 08:29:24 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on April 10, 2021, 08:12:20 PM
Fucking hell 😂

Sigh.

You've given no baseline for the statistics to compare to.
You've given nothing to set context for them.

Without doing either they're meaningless.

In one of the many parts of my posts you didn't bother quoting I gave you both (for this season only) by stating points stats for the entire season split into what I see as 3 clear sections, up until covid, post covid with jack and without. I then gave an additional stat of the change in goals scored pre and post covid and there is a stark difference, even accounting for the 7-2 anomaly.

Onto last season, he missed 2 games and we lost them both but it was part of a run of 3 defeats and we had 3 defeats (or more) in a row 3 more times so you can't suggest any causation.

So the only period where Jack being out (and coming back) had a clear and provable impact was in the championship where Smith was using what was mostly Bruce's squad.

This is why the stats you gave mean nothing, they're not wrong, they just don't have any use.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on April 10, 2021, 08:51:42 PM
While there may be lies, damn lies and statistics, I don't think it's much of an exaggeration to say that without Jack, we're largely rubbish.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on April 10, 2021, 09:00:31 PM
Whilst I never want Jack to leave us, I also don't think it would be the end of the world if he did. DS always struck me when he was at Brentford as a coach who had 'systems', where players were interchangeable. You can't really do that when you have one of the best players in the world - you build the team around him, naturally.

I think we'd see the best of Dean after a couple of windows without Jack.

The above is obviously much less preferable than keeping Jack, and having him fit, for as long as possible.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on April 10, 2021, 09:01:45 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on April 10, 2021, 08:24:13 PM
Quote from: Ads on April 10, 2021, 08:01:40 PM
There is not a chance that he will be sacked.

I love Dean and want him to stay for the foreseeable future, but I keep thinking of this:
https://www.sbnation.com/2018/1/23/16921324/jason-kidd-fired-bucks-coach-reasons-why

Look at this way. A manager or coaches job is essentially the relationship between gunpowder and dynamite. The job is to stay ahead of the spark which is lit as soon they take the job, and ultimately avoid the explosion which will inevitably happen at some point. As it stands Dean Smith is still well ahead of the spark but it is catching up. And it’s catching up a lot faster than it was before Christmas. Now there are factors that make that spark speed up out of the managers control. But that’s the job.

Dean Smith needs to find a way of keeping ahead of the spark or there will be a big bang.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: RamboandBruno on April 10, 2021, 09:02:08 PM
Quote from: paul_e on April 10, 2021, 08:29:24 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on April 10, 2021, 08:12:20 PM
Fucking hell 😂

Sigh.

You've given no baseline for the statistics to compare to.
You've given nothing to set context for them.

Without doing either they're meaningless.

In one of the many parts of my posts you didn't bother quoting I gave you both (for this season only) by stating points stats for the entire season split into what I see as 3 clear sections, up until covid, post covid with jack and without. I then gave an additional stat of the change in goals scored pre and post covid and there is a stark difference, even accounting for the 7-2 anomaly.

Onto last season, he missed 2 games and we lost them both but it was part of a run of 3 defeats and we had 3 defeats (or more) in a row 3 more times so you can't suggest any causation.

So the only period where Jack being out (and coming back) had a clear and provable impact was in the championship where Smith was using what was mostly Bruce's squad.

This is why the stats you gave mean nothing, they're not wrong, they just don't have any use.

In addition stats only tell part of the story ever. Grealish coming back was obviously hugely influential in the 10 game run,  but I went to all but a couple of the away games in that run, and Grealish wasn’t our best player or the most influential player in a number of those games. McGinn I would argue was equally if not more influential  as was Mings and Abraham, a combination of players and factors. I would also argue that Grealish didn’t really turn up for either the away West Brom game in the play offs or the play off final.

The beginning of this season when we were flying, was it all Grealish or again a combination of factors. How he was linking up with Barkley and Targett and Ollie, the confidence Martinez gave us at the back.

Speaking of which even before Grealish got injured was he a shoe in for player of the season? I’d say Martinez would be ahead and Konsa close.

Point being with all this, Grealish is important but it’s how the sum of the parts combine that is they key.
The stats tell you none of this and so it’s one dimensional to always come down to this.

I’m bored of defending Smith and feel like some bloody smith evangelical, but I do believe there is some inherent snobbery going on here, and he’ll never be good enough for some.

I also like the complete insight some people have to  the owners thinking.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Aldridge Villa on April 10, 2021, 09:09:31 PM
Still seething Davis wasn’t given a start today. Absolutely nothing to lose against a shaky Liverpool defence. Think Dean missed a real opportunity to try something different today.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on April 10, 2021, 09:21:18 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on April 10, 2021, 09:00:31 PM
Whilst I never want Jack to leave us, I also don't think it would be the end of the world if he did. DS always struck me when he was at Brentford as a coach who had 'systems', where players were interchangeable. You can't really do that when you have one of the best players in the world - you build the team around him, naturally.

I think we'd see the best of Dean after a couple of windows without Jack.

The above is obviously much less preferable than keeping Jack, and having him fit, for as long as possible.

He's got a system of sorts now, it's called taking off Trez and bringing on El Ghazi (or vice versa) on or around the 70th minute. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Taylor on April 10, 2021, 09:38:56 PM
I realise that this is in no way a reflection of quality, but I still find it surprising that in the top English league, no one has mentioned that DS is the top placed English manager,
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brazilian Villain on April 10, 2021, 09:40:35 PM
Quote from: N'ZMAV on April 10, 2021, 08:05:49 PM
WTF is going on in these threads lately? so much bitching it reminds me of pissed up Villa fans fighting each other at Wembley....

Still a lot of raw emotion after yesterday's sad news.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on April 10, 2021, 09:42:43 PM
Quote from: Taylor on April 10, 2021, 09:38:56 PM
I realise that this is in no way a reflection of quality, but I still find it surprising that in the top English league, no one has mentioned that DS is the top placed English manager,

Tallest dwarf territory there.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Taylor on April 10, 2021, 09:45:10 PM
Quote from: Risso on April 10, 2021, 09:42:43 PM
Quote from: Taylor on April 10, 2021, 09:38:56 PM
I realise that this is in no way a reflection of quality, but I still find it surprising that in the top English league, no one has mentioned that DS is the top placed English manager,


Tallest dwarf territory there.
Ha ha. Fair point.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on April 10, 2021, 09:47:55 PM
His loyalty to Traore is the biggest puzzler. I can't recall the last decent performance he put in for us. The home game v Palace maybe. He has been awful for what seems like months.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on April 10, 2021, 09:53:45 PM
Quote from: brontebilly on April 10, 2021, 09:47:55 PM
His loyalty to Traore is the biggest puzzler. I can't recall the last decent performance he put in for us. The home game v Palace maybe. He has been awful for what seems like months.

I don't get it either. He's completely blinkered, sticking rigidly to 4-3-3 while rotating the three underperforming wingers into two spots. What's the worst that could happen if he tried something slightly different? I'm not suddenly expecting a switch to a diamond with two false 9s or whatever, but after a good cameo last week, would Davis really have provided as little as Traore did from the start, or Barkley did after coming on? Why not give some of the kids a chance on the bench instead of old has beens like Taylor and Elmo?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on April 10, 2021, 09:54:11 PM
Quote from: Brazilian Villain on April 10, 2021, 09:40:35 PM
Quote from: N'ZMAV on April 10, 2021, 08:05:49 PM
WTF is going on in these threads lately? so much bitching it reminds me of pissed up Villa fans fighting each other at Wembley....

Still a lot of raw emotion after yesterday's sad news.

Puts football into perspective. RIP DMX.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SamTheMouse on April 10, 2021, 09:54:28 PM
He got us promoted at the first time of asking. He kept us in the top flight. He's currently leading us to mid-table security, and this is only his third season with us.

Personally, I think the bloke's a fooking hero.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on April 10, 2021, 09:59:16 PM
Quote from: SamTheMouse on April 10, 2021, 09:54:28 PM
He got us promoted at the first time of asking. He kept us in the top flight. He's currently leading us to mid-table security, and this is only his third season with us.

Personally, I think the bloke's a fooking hero.

He's doing ok by me as well. Like I said earlier. this season could have been even better but when you get people/person before the game complaining that we were 10th, it almost makes you crazily think they just get bored and want change for the sake of it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Taylor on April 10, 2021, 10:11:21 PM
Quote from: SamTheMouse on April 10, 2021, 09:54:28 PM
He got us promoted at the first time of asking. He kept us in the top flight. He's currently leading us to mid-table security, and this is only his third season with us.

Personally, I think the bloke's a fooking hero.
Yup
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Border villan on April 10, 2021, 10:17:38 PM
Quote from: Taylor on April 10, 2021, 10:11:21 PM
Quote from: SamTheMouse on April 10, 2021, 09:54:28 PM
He got us promoted at the first time of asking. He kept us in the top flight. He's currently leading us to mid-table security, and this is only his third season with us.

Personally, I think the bloke's a fooking hero.
Yup

Just a mention, not a comparison, it took Ron Saunders seven years to produce a league winning team.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on April 10, 2021, 11:07:36 PM
He's managed in a top League for one season, having managed Walsall and Brentford before.

He kept us up last season miraculously and got us up the season before almost as miraculously.

We are an erratic team, sometimes brilliant, sometimes poor. We are frustratingly inconsistent at times.

He's going to learn, though, and so are we, we will improve the quality of the squad again and push on.

A mid table finish after a decade of fighting relegation or scrambling to get promoted is something every single one of us would have taken prior to the start of the season.

Yes, his game management is annoying, yes, we have recurring weaknesses but anyone seriously thinking he should be getting sacked after the season we are having is bonkers.

I understand why people were asking whether he was the man when it looked like we were donned last year but he saved us, you have to give him a chance purely based on that.

We sound like wolves fans, shitting their pants over a tricky season and wanting Nuno out, ignoring the depths to which their club had previously sumk.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: andyh on April 10, 2021, 11:13:04 PM
Quote from: Clampy on April 10, 2021, 09:59:16 PM
Quote from: SamTheMouse on April 10, 2021, 09:54:28 PM
He got us promoted at the first time of asking. He kept us in the top flight. He's currently leading us to mid-table security, and this is only his third season with us.

Personally, I think the bloke's a fooking hero.

He's doing ok by me as well. Like I said earlier. this season could have been even better but when you get people/person before the game complaining that we were 10th, it almost makes you crazily think they just get bored and want change for the sake of it.
To be fair, you have defended every single manger over the last few years.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on April 10, 2021, 11:14:15 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on April 10, 2021, 11:07:36 PM
He's managed in a top League for one season, having managed Walsall and Brentford before.

He kept us up last season miraculously and got us up the season before almost as miraculously.

We are an erratic team, sometimes brilliant, sometimes poor. We are frustratingly inconsistent at times.

He's going to learn, though, and so are we, we will improve the quality of the squad again and push on.

A mid table finish after a decade of fighting relegation or scrambling to get promoted is something every single one of us would have taken prior to the start of the season.

Yes, his game management is annoying, yes, we have recurring weaknesses but anyone seriously thinking he should be getting sacked after the season we are having is bonkers.

I understand why people were asking whether he was the man when it looked like we were donned last year but he saved us, you have to give him a chance purely based on that.

We sound like wolves fans, shitting their pants over a tricky season and wanting Nuno out, ignoring the depths to which their club had previously sumk.

Yep talk of the sack is nuts. We’re going to finish mid table and that is great progress.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AV82EC on April 10, 2021, 11:20:04 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on April 10, 2021, 11:07:36 PM
He's managed in a top League for one season, having managed Walsall and Brentford before.

He kept us up last season miraculously and got us up the season before almost as miraculously.

We are an erratic team, sometimes brilliant, sometimes poor. We are frustratingly inconsistent at times.

He's going to learn, though, and so are we, we will improve the quality of the squad again and push on.

A mid table finish after a decade of fighting relegation or scrambling to get promoted is something every single one of us would have taken prior to the start of the season.

Yes, his game management is annoying, yes, we have recurring weaknesses but anyone seriously thinking he should be getting sacked after the season we are having is bonkers.

I understand why people were asking whether he was the man when it looked like we were donned last year but he saved us, you have to give him a chance purely based on that.

We sound like wolves fans, shitting their pants over a tricky season and wanting Nuno out, ignoring the depths to which their club had previously sumk.

Well said, I suppose what annoys though are the people who can’t accept the criticism of him and who immediately conflate that to “oh you want him sacked then”.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on April 10, 2021, 11:24:00 PM
I think it depends on how the rest of the season goes. We've improved on last year, mainly due to our away results, and we still need a win and a draw from home games against Man City, Man U, Chelsea, Everton and WBA to match last season's home record. We've been playing really poorly for ages now, and if it goes on, and he loses say, 6 of the final 8, I think he'll be toast.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on April 10, 2021, 11:45:50 PM
The loss of Grealish gives him a temporary pass in my opinion until Christmas. But it won’t have gone unnoticed by the owners/board how below average we look without him. Either that highlights needed investment or the inability of the manager to do more without him. He better hope it’s not the latter.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: stubbsyandy on April 10, 2021, 11:56:32 PM
I want us to continue with Dean, he’s learning as we build, and remember we are better season on season..BUT, how he persists with that wastrel Barkley beggars belief and though Traore is ‘ mercurial’ when he’s off his game it’s obvious from the first few minutes..so change it! Davis isn’t the answer but can hold the ball for others to play off him. All too often because we only have Ollie up front the ball comes straight back which means our midfield isn’t attacking but trying to hold and they can’t do that for 90 minutes. Good job we have a decent back five but they are living on too many blocks..it’ll catch up on us and we will get thumped soon.
We are however ahead of where we were looking to be, but need to be more flexible and progressive in our tactics.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on April 10, 2021, 11:57:43 PM
If rumours are to believed he would have been sacked last season if Covid hadn't forced the shutdown. He's improved the defence this year, but I just can't see the owners standing for another really poor run, which this period is definitely turning into. Wes Edens sacked a mate of his, Jason Kidd, at the Bucks, so I wouldn't be expecting sentimentality from him:

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on April 11, 2021, 12:16:34 AM
Quote from: SaddVillan on April 10, 2021, 05:43:49 PM
Just getting ready to head off down to join the mob on Trinity Road with my pikestaff calling for Smith's head.
But stopped to consider this:
2018 - appointed manager
2019 - play off promotion winners
2020 - keeps us in the Prem/League Cup runners up
2021 - solid mid table position.
Then I asked myself - how many of today's Villa starting squad would make the Liverpool squad and vice versa?
Decided to put the pikestaff back in the shed.
We clearly don't have sufficient in tems of individual quality or strength in depth.
Smith could be doing better, but given what he has to work with, I'm not going to complain too much.
With that sort of record a case could be made either way so  I won't be surprised if our owners decide to shake hands with Dean at the end of the season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on April 11, 2021, 12:48:04 AM
Quote from: Risso on April 10, 2021, 11:24:00 PM
I think it depends on how the rest of the season goes. We've improved on last year, mainly due to our away results, and we still need a win and a draw from home games against Man City, Man U, Chelsea, Everton and WBA to match last season's home record. We've been playing really poorly for ages now, and if it goes on, and he loses say, 6 of the final 8, I think he'll be toast.

Not sure how matching last season's home record becomes an important measure of progress?

We're on 44 points with 8 matches still to go. How would not matching last season's home record sully that?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on April 11, 2021, 01:08:46 AM
Clutch at a reason as its the only thing that wouldn't have been improved upon is my guess.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Scott Nielsen on April 11, 2021, 03:01:50 AM
Smith does seem to too rigidly hold on to his preferred system. I would like to see him try some tweaks when things are demonstrably not working.

On the other hand, that is what most every other supporter of every other club say about their manager. From Guardiola and Klopp to Wilder. The manager does chose the starting eleven but beyond that we tend to overstate their impact on the game. The teams with the best players are more successful. And we have quite a few in the middle of the park that aren't all that great which means we are falling away when Grealish can't paper over the cracks.

For us to take another large step forward we are talking three or four top transfers of 50m+. And we would have to be lucky enough for at least the majority of those transfers to turn out really well. If we can also add another Watkins or Cash steal from the lower leagues we'd be set. I honestly think that is the size of gap we have to bridge in order to compete for a top-6 finish over the course of a full season.

A long-winded way of saying I think the quality of too many of our players are far more of a limitation than Smith is.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: villa for life on April 11, 2021, 04:29:51 AM
Dean is very much like the manager version of a Matt Targett, both newbies to the premier league with a lot of strengths and potential.

Targett has kicked on massively this season, and Smith has as well, but just not to the same extent. Unfortunately, though a manager is a much more integral part of a club, especially at a club with lofty aspirations.

Dean has it within him, but he’s a little slow in learning. If we were, say, a Burnley, we could both improve slowly together but I’m sure our owners want more than that considering the massive investment they have put in.

I like Smith, but just like the players AEG, Trez, Traore, he has to prove he’s worthy of a starting spot, and he can only do this  by the decisions he makes and the results we get.

I suspect we could do a lot worse than Smith, but  there are definitely a fair few managers who would do better. The owners and Purslow are very astute so I’m not fretting. They’ll come to the right conclusion and only time will tell whether that means sticking or twisting.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on April 11, 2021, 07:33:50 AM
Quote from: andyh on April 10, 2021, 11:13:04 PM
Quote from: Clampy on April 10, 2021, 09:59:16 PM
Quote from: SamTheMouse on April 10, 2021, 09:54:28 PM
He got us promoted at the first time of asking. He kept us in the top flight. He's currently leading us to mid-table security, and this is only his third season with us.

Personally, I think the bloke's a fooking hero.

He's doing ok by me as well. Like I said earlier. this season could have been even better but when you get people/person before the game complaining that we were 10th, it almost makes you crazily think they just get bored and want change for the sake of it.
To be fair, you have defended every single manger over the last few years.

I've defended them until I thought it was time to stop defending them. Smith has his faults, but I find it difficult to be over critical about this season. He gets another crack at next season for me but like I said yesterday, we will need to push  on. I think he will know that as well.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on April 11, 2021, 07:44:47 AM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on April 10, 2021, 11:07:36 PM
He's managed in a top League for one season, having managed Walsall and Brentford before.

He kept us up last season miraculously and got us up the season before almost as miraculously.

We are an erratic team, sometimes brilliant, sometimes poor. We are frustratingly inconsistent at times.

He's going to learn, though, and so are we, we will improve the quality of the squad again and push on.

A mid table finish after a decade of fighting relegation or scrambling to get promoted is something every single one of us would have taken prior to the start of the season.

Yes, his game management is annoying, yes, we have recurring weaknesses but anyone seriously thinking he should be getting sacked after the season we are having is bonkers.

I understand why people were asking whether he was the man when it looked like we were donned last year but he saved us, you have to give him a chance purely based on that.

We sound like wolves fans, shitting their pants over a tricky season and wanting Nuno out, ignoring the depths to which their club had previously sumk.

I've got to agree with this post.
Is it a shame our season might be petering out? Yes.
Does Dean sometimes get tactics or substitutions wrong? Yes.
Could the performances of individual players be better? Yes.
Am I disappointed about not making next season's european spots? Absolutely not...because we are not yet at that level.
The bigger picture has to be looked at regarding Dean and that started when the new owners arrived. Since then Dean has met and even exceeded their expectations as well as those of the majority of fans. They would be crazy to be even thinking of releasing Dean at this stage never mind actually doing it. The bigger picture also involves what happens in the future. Now if Dean doesn't fulfil the brief of the owners, then I'm sure the owners will act and I feel sure Dean is aware of this.
If the dissent towards Dean was coming from fans of our near neighbours towards their managers I'd be taking the p-ss, so the comparison with fans of wolvescelona is a good one by paulie.
Remember sha got rid of Rowett when they were in a position of strength and we were delighted because they'd failed to see the bigger picture under him. I trust our owners to make the right decisions at the right time and in the meanwhile for supporters to back the club from the top down.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on April 11, 2021, 07:56:16 AM
he's as inflexible as MON though, and I am concerened about the value of a lot of our transfer business although how much influence Dean has is hard to assess. Big summer ahead with maybe up to nine departures if we can find homes for them - AEG, Trez, Hourihane, Engles, Heaton, Elmo, Taylor to go. Barkley back to Chelsea and maybe Davis on loan. i see four or five coming in.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PhilVill on April 11, 2021, 08:02:37 AM
Morning after the day before. I certainly think Smith deserves to be here next season as we are progressing well but I do think he needs to be under scrutiny from match one next season, especially if the owners put a lot of money in again. The strict reliance on 4-3-3 is costing us points as is the reluctance to sub, some of the players brought in are poor buys and letting Guilbert out on loan was crazy and therefore I understand why some are getting doubts. I think Dean needs to be told, if investment is made again, that surviving next season is not even open to discussion and given a realistic target of 55 points. These owners are ambitious and I get the feeling next season is make or break for quite a few players and management.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: London Villan on April 11, 2021, 08:10:45 AM
If we spend £100m in the summer and keep jack a top 6 finish will be expected.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on April 11, 2021, 08:15:46 AM
Excellent post Pauliewalnuts.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on April 11, 2021, 08:16:28 AM
Quote from: PhilVill on April 11, 2021, 08:02:37 AM
Morning after the day before. I certainly think Smith deserves to be here next season as we are progressing well but I do think he needs to be under scrutiny from match one next season, especially if the owners put a lot of money in again. The strict reliance on 4-3-3 is costing us points as is the reluctance to sub, some of the players brought in are poor buys and letting Guilbert out on loan was crazy and therefore I understand why some are getting doubts. I think Dean needs to be told, if investment is made again, that surviving next season is not even open to discussion and given a realistic target of 55 points. These owners are ambitious and I get the feeling next season is make or break for quite a few players and management.

I don't think surviving was the option this season. Last season it was, understandably
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Allan C on April 11, 2021, 08:22:38 AM
Quote from: Abbeyfealeavfc on April 11, 2021, 07:44:47 AM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on April 10, 2021, 11:07:36 PM
He's managed in a top League for one season, having managed Walsall and Brentford before.

He kept us up last season miraculously and got us up the season before almost as miraculously.

We are an erratic team, sometimes brilliant, sometimes poor. We are frustratingly inconsistent at times.

He's going to learn, though, and so are we, we will improve the quality of the squad again and push on.

A mid table finish after a decade of fighting relegation or scrambling to get promoted is something every single one of us would have taken prior to the start of the season.

Yes, his game management is annoying, yes, we have recurring weaknesses but anyone seriously thinking he should be getting sacked after the season we are having is bonkers.

I understand why people were asking whether he was the man when it looked like we were donned last year but he saved us, you have to give him a chance purely based on that.

We sound like wolves fans, shitting their pants over a tricky season and wanting Nuno out, ignoring the depths to which their club had previously sumk.

I've got to agree with this post.
Is it a shame our season might be petering out? Yes.
Does Dean sometimes get tactics or substitutions wrong? Yes.
Could the performances of individual players be better? Yes.
Am I disappointed about not making next season's european spots? Absolutely not...because we are not yet at that level.
The bigger picture has to be looked at regarding Dean and that started when the new owners arrived. Since then Dean has met and even exceeded their expectations as well as those of the majority of fans. They would be crazy to be even thinking of releasing Dean at this stage never mind actually doing it. The bigger picture also involves what happens in the future. Now if Dean doesn't fulfil the brief of the owners, then I'm sure the owners will act and I feel sure Dean is aware of this.
If the dissent towards Dean was coming from fans of our near neighbours towards their managers I'd be taking the p-ss, so the comparison with fans of wolvescelona is a good one by paulie.
Remember sha got rid of Rowett when they were in a position of strength and we were delighted because they'd failed to see the bigger picture under him. I trust our owners to make the right decisions at the right time and in the meanwhile for supporters to back the club from the top down.
Both really good posts and sun up how I feel also. I think we are now at the level we should be with the squad we have now. 10th with a game in hand is bloody excellent given what we’ve had before. Smith must be given praise for that. We will continue to improve I’m sure of that and next season with the right purchases we will be top 6 challengers
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Doughboy21 on April 11, 2021, 08:33:53 AM
Yesterday was another very frustrating watch against a very poor team. Caused by a mix of Smith and players. I cannot believe he is happy with our inability to string more than a couple of passes together,yet persists with the same culprits and compounds it by bringing  on Barkley and AEG? We are short of 4 midfield/attack players for sure..we are safe, so let's try some of the young uns? I also think that Smith [size=78%]being a Villa fan could be his undoing with his reluctantance to take a chance  and try something different. [/size]
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: mr underhill on April 11, 2021, 08:36:38 AM
what size are you, by the way?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Doughboy21 on April 11, 2021, 08:39:37 AM
Thats my phone for you!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on April 11, 2021, 09:32:49 AM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on April 11, 2021, 12:48:04 AM
Quote from: Risso on April 10, 2021, 11:24:00 PM
I think it depends on how the rest of the season goes. We've improved on last year, mainly due to our away results, and we still need a win and a draw from home games against Man City, Man U, Chelsea, Everton and WBA to match last season's home record. We've been playing really poorly for ages now, and if it goes on, and he loses say, 6 of the final 8, I think he'll be toast.

Not sure how matching last season's home record becomes an important measure of progress?

We're on 44 points with 8 matches still to go. How would not matching last season's home record sully that?

When we had the advantage of 40,000 Villa fans for every home game last season too.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on April 11, 2021, 10:03:37 AM
The stubbornness of continually playing 4-3-3 and mixing around Traore, Trez and El Ghazi just baffles me. We've been playing pretty poorly for months now with the same faults exposed each game but the next we roll out the same thing again.

I appreciate we had a great start but it doesn't count for much if you have a poor end and finish 12/13th. It's a very average season and considering the money spent I think the owners will have one eye on something more than 4-3-3 rain or shine. It's not good enough at the moment.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan82 on April 11, 2021, 10:05:12 AM
Dean has done brilliantly and has earned another crack at it.

The frustrating thing about his term for me, however, is that we get beat so often. After MON flounced, we went from being hard to beat to having a losing habit. Because of that I am at a stage where I would like to see us come out with a point more often than we do. I want him to improve in terms of game management.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on April 11, 2021, 10:11:51 AM
We've won 4 of the last 17 and scored more than once in just 3 of those. That's shit. Wake up Smith. It's not a ''blip'', that's half a season of results really. 5 very difficult fixtures remaining. He needs to learn how to put a cap on these poor runs we go on. You don't get COVID breaks every year to reevaluate where it's gone wrong. Sometimes he really does look like a rookie manager. He's in his 50's.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Baldy on April 11, 2021, 10:45:01 AM
We showed Liverpool too much respect yesterday. We approached them based on reputation and not on their current form. Most of us could see their achilles heel and we should have played on the front foot. The game was calling out for Davis.

Instead, our starting eleven gave Liverpool the initiative and boosted their confidence before a ball was even kicked. I often think Martinez and Mings dictate the tempo of our game. When they show urgency, the team shows urgency. When they 'dilly dally' the team dilly dallies. Yesterday, Martinez was time wasting after 5 minutes!!

Smiths team selection and subsequent message to players was negative. Yet again, he has shown to much respect to the so called top six clubs.

I like Smith, overall he has done a decent job to date. However, he needs to get rid of that inferiority complex when we face the bigger clubs and play them on merit and not reputation.

Fortune favours the brave, Be braver Smith.  :)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nunkin1965 on April 11, 2021, 11:21:36 AM
We can assume that Dean and his staff will have been given a target for this season which will have been achieved already I'd guess. His reward will be to have an opportunity to continue to build on the overall progress thats been made.
Real progress has been made in squad development but clearly some parts of the team need improving.
It's going to be exciting to see how he and the owners develop the team next season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: wittonwarrior on April 11, 2021, 11:30:51 AM
Quote from: Baldy on April 11, 2021, 10:45:01 AM
We showed Liverpool too much respect yesterday. We approached them based on reputation and not on their current form. Most of us could see their achilles heel and we should have played on the front foot. The game was calling out for Davis.

Instead, our starting eleven gave Liverpool the initiative and boosted their confidence before a ball was even kicked. I often think Martinez and Mings dictate the tempo of our game. When they show urgency, the team shows urgency. When they 'dilly dally' the team dilly dallies. Yesterday, Martinez was time wasting after 5 minutes!!

Smiths team selection and subsequent message to players was negative. Yet again, he has shown to much respect to the so called top six clubs.

I like Smith, overall he has done a decent job to date. However, he needs to get rid of that inferiority complex when we face the bigger clubs and play them on merit and not reputation.

Fortune favours the brave, Be braver Smith.  :)

We haven't done too badly against the top teams to be honest.  More the likes of Burnley where we have struggled
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ketzster on April 11, 2021, 11:40:55 AM
Quote from: Nunkin1965 on April 11, 2021, 11:21:36 AM
We can assume that Dean and his staff will have been given a target for this season which will have been achieved already I'd guess. His reward will be to have an opportunity to continue to build on the overall progress thats been made.
Real progress has been made in squad development but clearly some parts of the team need improving.
It's going to be exciting to see how he and the owners develop the team next season.

The way we are playing it’s quite possible we might only get two more wins for the rest of the season. When Grealish signed his contract and the way Martinez was talking when he signed for example, I’d be surprised if the target was to finish 12th or 13th which is quite possible at the moment. Smith has done fine, and before the New Year the football was fantastic. The problem is we go on these really long runs where the football is almost unwatchable at times and we don’t look we’ve been coached. The odd dreadful performance here and there happens to everybody, but it’s the sustained spells of bad form that are the problem. And that’s not just happened in the Premier League which I think is relevant. In both leagues when Grealish has been out, Smith has really, really struggled to find an answer. Part of that as has been said countless times is because he refuses to move away from his 4-3-3. Whilst I understand the ‘be careful what you wish for’ thing, when the owners seem to be willing to spend so much I don’t think it’s impossible to think that somebody else might do a better job
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: rooboy316 on April 11, 2021, 11:50:08 AM
At the start of this season, if someone had told us Jack would be out for 2-3 months, what placing would we be happy with? Given where we finished last season and the squad we have.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brazilian Villain on April 11, 2021, 11:53:59 AM
Quote from: mr underhill on April 11, 2021, 08:36:38 AM
what size are you, by the way?

3' 9" and born in Nov. '65. https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/45-life-size-advertising-doll-219544882
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Billy Walker on April 11, 2021, 11:57:46 AM
I'd only start thinking of replacing a a manager when the year on year improvement stops and a sense of plateauing or dropping off starts creeping in.  In the case of Dean Smith we are nowhere near that, as far as I can see.   
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ketzster on April 11, 2021, 11:58:03 AM
The problem is is that it isn’t just this season we’ve struggled when Grealish has been out. The evidence for the people that say everything is down to Grealish is growing rather than the other way round. Of course it makes a difference, but I’m not sure that excuses having such long spells of poor form. At times, the way people talk you’d think that Smith is managing under owners who want out and haven’t given him any money. There comes a point where you have to question these long spells of poor form without just keep saying ‘Grealish is out, what can anybody do?’. It’s the recurring nature of the problems that is the issue
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PeterWithe on April 11, 2021, 12:01:30 PM
I think we are placed about where we should be given the strength of the squad and having lost Jack for so long. If we are able to strengthen where we need to, and keep those we want to, then we will be realistic to expect a top 6 finish next year.

He’s doing ok.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: RamboandBruno on April 11, 2021, 12:05:20 PM
Quote from: aj2k77 on April 11, 2021, 10:11:51 AM
We've won 4 of the last 17 and scored more than once in just 3 of those. That's shit. Wake up Smith. It's not a ''blip'', that's half a season of results really. 5 very difficult fixtures remaining. He needs to learn how to put a cap on these poor runs we go on. You don't get COVID breaks every year to reevaluate where it's gone wrong. Sometimes he really does look like a rookie manager. He's in his 50's.

I guess most teams that finish mid table, say 9th to 12th, have really good runs and really poor runs in a season, it’s why those teams aren’t challenging at the top, but equally arent worried about a relegation fight. I think we just need to take it for what it is, a season of progress compared to last season and then we progress some more next season hopefully.
I can understand the obvious frustrations of some on here that we aren’t progressing quick enough. But some of this smacks a bit of privilege and ‘don’t you know we’re Aston Villa’. Outside of the usual suspects of Liverpool, Manchester clubs, Chelsea and Spurs, teams like Leicester and Everton and even West Ham have infested heavily for the years we were ploughing our trade in the championship. All those clubs as well as Wolves, Leeds and Arsenal, have ambitions to be at the top table. I’m not sure where the idea comes from that because we have wealthy owners, we would turn into European certainties in our second season back comes from. There are also a lot of people who seem to have inside knowledge of what the owners are thinking, which is a bit bizarre and in some cases seems like wishful thinking in terms of using this apparent knowledge of the owners next move, to justify the fact that they themselves would quite like the manager out.

Pre season I would of took 10th this season, does it feel disappointing that, that will be our likely finishing spot after the excitement of the early months of the season, yes it does. Is it a bad second season back after a decade of shite, not in my book. We have the spine of an excellent team built by this management team. We are another forward, winger and midfield enforcer away from challenging.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on April 11, 2021, 12:06:41 PM
Quote from: Ketzster on April 11, 2021, 11:58:03 AM
The problem is is that it isn’t just this season we’ve struggled when Grealish has been out. The evidence for the people that say everything is down to Grealish is growing rather than the other way round. Of course it makes a difference, but I’m not sure that excuses having such long spells of poor form. At times, the way people talk you’d think that Smith is managing under owners who want out and haven’t given him any money. There comes a point where you have to question these long spells of poor form without just keep saying ‘Grealish is out, what can anybody do?’. It’s the recurring nature of the problems that is the issue

As has bene said a number of times yesterday, this season the big drop off in form was the quarantine for covid shutting us down not Jack being out.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ketzster on April 11, 2021, 12:12:20 PM
Quote from: paul_e on April 11, 2021, 12:06:41 PM
Quote from: Ketzster on April 11, 2021, 11:58:03 AM
The problem is is that it isn’t just this season we’ve struggled when Grealish has been out. The evidence for the people that say everything is down to Grealish is growing rather than the other way round. Of course it makes a difference, but I’m not sure that excuses having such long spells of poor form. At times, the way people talk you’d think that Smith is managing under owners who want out and haven’t given him any money. There comes a point where you have to question these long spells of poor form without just keep saying ‘Grealish is out, what can anybody do?’. It’s the recurring nature of the problems that is the issue

As has bene said a number of times yesterday, this season the big drop off in form was the quarantine for covid shutting us down not Jack being out.

It might well be, but as has also been mentioned, we were hopeless in the Championship under Smith without Grealish. Nobody can say with certainty which it is because it’s not the first time this has happened. Football management is about far more than just having all your players fit and one plan
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on April 11, 2021, 12:26:13 PM
Quote from: paul_e on April 11, 2021, 12:06:41 PM
Quote from: Ketzster on April 11, 2021, 11:58:03 AM
The problem is is that it isn’t just this season we’ve struggled when Grealish has been out. The evidence for the people that say everything is down to Grealish is growing rather than the other way round. Of course it makes a difference, but I’m not sure that excuses having such long spells of poor form. At times, the way people talk you’d think that Smith is managing under owners who want out and haven’t given him any money. There comes a point where you have to question these long spells of poor form without just keep saying ‘Grealish is out, what can anybody do?’. It’s the recurring nature of the problems that is the issue

As has bene said a number of times yesterday, this season the big drop off in form was the quarantine for covid shutting us down not Jack being out.

That doesn't stand up to any sort of scrutiny. Straight after the enforced covid break and until Jack was out, we won 3 out of 7 games, drew 1 and lost 3. Two of the defeats were against Man City, where we were robbed by the ref, and Burnley where we played well and should have 4-0 up at half time. West Ham was the only game we really deserved to lose. Since Jack has been out we've won two out of 8, and haven't played well in any of the games at all, apart from the odd patch.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on April 11, 2021, 12:45:26 PM
Quote from: Risso on April 11, 2021, 12:26:13 PM
Quote from: paul_e on April 11, 2021, 12:06:41 PM
Quote from: Ketzster on April 11, 2021, 11:58:03 AM
The problem is is that it isn’t just this season we’ve struggled when Grealish has been out. The evidence for the people that say everything is down to Grealish is growing rather than the other way round. Of course it makes a difference, but I’m not sure that excuses having such long spells of poor form. At times, the way people talk you’d think that Smith is managing under owners who want out and haven’t given him any money. There comes a point where you have to question these long spells of poor form without just keep saying ‘Grealish is out, what can anybody do?’. It’s the recurring nature of the problems that is the issue

As has bene said a number of times yesterday, this season the big drop off in form was the quarantine for covid shutting us down not Jack being out.

That doesn't stand up to any sort of scrutiny. Straight after the enforced covid break and until Jack was out, we won 3 out of 7 games, drew 1 and lost 3. Two of the defeats were against Man City, where we were robbed by the ref, and Burnley where we played well and should have 4-0 up at half time. West Ham was the only game we really deserved to lose. Since Jack has been out we've won two out of 8, and haven't played well in any of the games at all, apart from the odd patch.

It stands up to plenty, we got 10 points from 7 games and were struggling to score goals (we got 7 in 7). Before covid we'd got 29 goals in 15 games and had 26 points.

All that's happened since is that the lack of goals has continued and teams have realised we're struggling and committed more people forward. Of course Grealish has been missed, I find it bizarre that so many fans seem shocked by that, but the idea that we had nothing to worry about before he was out is just a lazy excuse to moan about Smith and the rest of the squad.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on April 11, 2021, 12:46:41 PM
We are talking about a mid table, maybe top half finish in the premier League as if it's a disappointment   

When did we last finish top half? Under Houllier? Ten years ago.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on April 11, 2021, 12:52:09 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on April 11, 2021, 12:46:41 PM
We are talking about a mid table, maybe top half finish in the premier League as if it's a disappointment   

When did we last finish top half? Under Houllier? Ten years ago.

People seem obsessed with Leeds doing well, but so what. Good luck to them.

You could equally concentrate on Arsenal who the last time we were up were a CL side and had won 3 consecutive FA Cups. Now they're below us and having to borrow money from the Bank of England. Even clubs like Southampton have been consistently above us for getting on for a decade. There's lots of ebb and flow and we are on a very clear trajectory.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 11, 2021, 12:52:19 PM
A lot of the moaning about Smith is the repetitively piss poor game management. Yesterday was another glaring example.
We had a reputation prior to lockdown of giving away points from winning positions and we are now leading that table again.
If that is not the manager’s responsibility what is ?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on April 11, 2021, 12:55:54 PM
But it wasn't game management at all. They scored because of an excellent finish and some unhurried closing from Ramsey,  in what was an isolated attack that actually brought about a rare save moments prior. Liverpool didn't look like or threaten to score at any point after their equaliser. We hadn't dropped deep, we'd just cocked up an attack ourselves 30 seconds to a minute before.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on April 11, 2021, 12:57:57 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on April 11, 2021, 12:46:41 PM
We are talking about a mid table, maybe top half finish in the premier League as if it's a disappointment   

When did we last finish top half? Under Houllier? Ten years ago.

I don't think we're going to finish top half.  Maybe we will though, but we haven't yet, so to be comparing it to anybody else is a bit previous.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on April 11, 2021, 12:58:37 PM
I said a long time ago we are where we are more because of Grealish than Smith
I still feel that way and I accept others will disagree

That’s not to say Smith hasn’t done anything of Course he has
The defence for a start is much improved

The problem I have is when Grealish is not in the team our form is that of a bottom six side
We go from looking like a top eight side to a team skirting with relegation form
But our squad is much better than that we spent £250 million on players
our form shouldn’t dip so low and that has to be a question for Smith

Personally I don’t think Dean would even be with us anymore if it wasn’t for Grealish our form just isn’t good enough without Jack for him to have kept his job

I also accept the view that taking any top player out of a side will affect them
The problem we have is how much it affects us
We shouldn’t become Fulham or Newcastle Just because we’ve lost our top player
The playing squad is far better than those in the bottom six so why without Jack Grealish do we become one of them
And I’m afraid the finger points at Dean Smith

But I’m not calling for his head
But if you ask me is Smith good enough to take us to the top six my answer would have to be no
and at some point he will have to be changed if we are to progress to that level

The biggest worry is when we were last looking at other managers rumour has it that we were thinking about Sean Dyce  and big Sam
they wouldn’t give us any more chance of top six then Dean Smith so we have to be careful what we wish for as others have said

However if you offered me a change right now for Nagelsmann I would snap your hand off
Look at the Bielsa he’s in a different league sticks by his attacking football Principles top half of the league above us with no Grealish or anywhere near the amount of money
All in his first year
Imagine what he would’ve done with us with the all the money and Jack Grealish
We would have been self combusting in the streets with excitement

Don’t forget top six is where we Should be aiming for
Second richest club in the premiership, and owners with big plans and ambitions
After all the investment and improvement year-on-year under Dean we still need to be better than a one man team which is what we are at the moment








Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on April 11, 2021, 12:59:09 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on April 11, 2021, 12:52:19 PM
A lot of the moaning about Smith is the repetitively piss poor game management. Yesterday was another glaring example.
We had a reputation prior to lockdown of giving away points from winning positions and we are now leading that table again.
If that is not the manager’s responsibility what is ?


We've dropped 8 points from games we were leading this season and before yesterday we had the joint best record in the entire league of converting leads into wins.

The problem is the exact opposite of the one you're trying to claim, what we've been poor at is getting back into games if we concede the first goal.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on April 11, 2021, 12:59:22 PM
Maybe not, but we'll finish with more than 48 points. That won't won't enough for 9th this time round, but things have moved on in a decade and we are only just finding our way back after that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on April 11, 2021, 01:00:45 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on April 11, 2021, 12:46:41 PM
We are talking about a mid table, maybe top half finish in the premier League as if it's a disappointment   

When did we last finish top half? Under Houllier? Ten years ago.

We seem as reliant on Jack Grealish as we were when we were mid table in the championship, though. The data proves that.

None of the teams around us last season spent anything near what we did so I think top 10 is probably about par with regards to budget and expectations.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 11, 2021, 01:01:03 PM
Quote from: Ads on April 11, 2021, 12:55:54 PM
But it wasn't game management at all. They scored because of an excellent finish and some unhurried closing from Ramsey,  in what was an isolated attack that actually brought about a rare save moments prior. Liverpool didn't look like or threaten to score at any point after their equaliser. We hadn't dropped deep, we'd just cocked up an attack ourselves 30 seconds to a minute before.
yes playing Ramsey right wing was a great game management.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on April 11, 2021, 01:05:07 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on April 11, 2021, 01:01:03 PM
Quote from: Ads on April 11, 2021, 12:55:54 PM
But it wasn't game management at all. They scored because of an excellent finish and some unhurried closing from Ramsey,  in what was an isolated attack that actually brought about a rare save moments prior. Liverpool didn't look like or threaten to score at any point after their equaliser. We hadn't dropped deep, we'd just cocked up an attack ourselves 30 seconds to a minute before.
yes playing Ramsey right wing was a great game management.


The goal came centrally from a right back drifting off an inside left position (of the pitch). He wasn't Ramsey's man to mark, so his position is irrelevant. I keep asking, but I cannot fathom how you believe "game management" had anything to do with losing.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SaddVillan on April 11, 2021, 01:10:26 PM
I've been looking at the cost of the various Prem squads to try and gauge whether we've achieved "value for money" in terms of our current league position.

The  figures based on squads in August and  exclude January signings.

City £811m
United £628m
Leicester £317m
Chelsea £577m
L'pool £454m (excl Van Dijk £75m)
West Ham £218m
Spurs £385m
Everton £388m
Leeds £120m
Villa £229m
Arsenal £455m (excl Ozil £42m)
Wolves £242m
Burnley £83m
Palace £150m
Soton £171m
Brighton £159m
Newcastle £198m
Fulham £95m
Baggies £98m
Sheff Utd £122m

11th most expensive squad and  we're in 10th place so far. 
In deciding if we're value for money, it might also be helpful to factor in the relative top division experience of the other managers.

There looks to me to be a fairly straightline correlation:

Money + experience = increased chance of doing well.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on April 11, 2021, 01:12:01 PM
Quote from: SaddVillan on April 11, 2021, 01:10:26 PM
I've been looking at the cost of the various Prem squads to try and gauge whether we've achieved "value for money" in terms of our current league position.

The  figures based on squads in August and  exclude January signings.

City £811m
United £628m
Leicester £317m
Chelsea £577m
L'pool £454m (excl Van Dijk £75m)
West Ham £218m
Spurs £385m
Everton £388m
Leeds £120m
Villa £229m
Arsenal £455m (excl Ozil £42m)
Wolves £242m
Burnley £83m
Palace £150m
Soton £171m
Brighton £159m
Newcastle £198m
Fulham £95m
Baggies £98m
Sheff Utd £122m

11th most expensive squad and  we're in 10th place so far. 
In deciding if we're value for money, it might also be helpful to factor in the relative top division experience of the other managers.

There looks to me to be a fairly straightline correlation:

Money + experience = increased chance of doing well.



How about also 'what you inherited'?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on April 11, 2021, 01:19:40 PM
How many of those clubs were 13th in the Championship 2 seasons ago?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SaddVillan on April 11, 2021, 01:26:30 PM

Although BIelsa at Leeds seems to be doing better than his squad value, factor in his managerial experience:
2007–2011 Chile
2011–2013 Ath Bilbao
2014–2015 Marseille
2016 Lazio
2017 Lille
2018–Leeds

And that might explain his success.

In Dyche's case, experience makes up for a small budget and with Solskjaer it's the other way round.

Arteta however has no excuse, he spent 3 seasons at City with Guardiola and is in his 2nd year at Arsenal.


Smith has had to learn on the job whilst building a Premier League squad pretty well from scratch.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on April 11, 2021, 01:29:23 PM
Think talk of a top 6 finish next season is pretty optimistic.

We would have to sign even better than last summer to have a chance of that.

This season our backline bar the odd individual error has generally performed out of their skins yet you can't just assume it will be as good next season as we saw in 09/10 and then six months later we have one of worst defences in league even though it was pretty much the same players. This due to injuries, lack of motivation etc.

We need far more goal power in final third. You look at Saint Maximn coming on for Newcastle just now and turning a 1-0 into 1-2 in five minutes, we desperately need that type of player aswell as Grealish in the team.

Then top 6 is possible but not before. A backup striker DS can actually trust to bring on every game regardless of score or opposition is also very much needed.

Would be more than happy with 8th and a very good cup run next season. Lower than that and think ownership will then have decision to make.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ketzster on April 11, 2021, 01:41:56 PM
Quote from: Ads on April 11, 2021, 12:52:09 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on April 11, 2021, 12:46:41 PM
We are talking about a mid table, maybe top half finish in the premier League as if it's a disappointment   

When did we last finish top half? Under Houllier? Ten years ago.

People seem obsessed with Leeds doing well, but so what. Good luck to them.

You could equally concentrate on Arsenal who the last time we were up were a CL side and had won 3 consecutive FA Cups. Now they're below us and having to borrow money from the Bank of England. Even clubs like Southampton have been consistently above us for getting on for a decade. There's lots of ebb and flow and we are on a very clear trajectory.

I hate Leeds as much as anybody else, and the Bielsa love in. But, one of my best friends is a Leeds fan and he says that he reckons quite a few in that squad are lower Championship/League 1 level. Liam Cooper for example. Stuart Dallas doing what he did yesterday?! I think we’ve got better players than Leeds but we aren’t coached as well as Leeds are and we often look like there’s no real plan. We keep hearing the squad etc. but having a good coach can make a huge difference. I think there are pretty big question marks over Dean Smiths coaching ability and I’m not sure how many other Premier League teams would take him as manager
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: RamboandBruno on April 11, 2021, 01:56:08 PM
Quote from: Ketzster on April 11, 2021, 01:41:56 PM
Quote from: Ads on April 11, 2021, 12:52:09 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on April 11, 2021, 12:46:41 PM
We are talking about a mid table, maybe top half finish in the premier League as if it's a disappointment   

When did we last finish top half? Under Houllier? Ten years ago.

People seem obsessed with Leeds doing well, but so what. Good luck to them.

You could equally concentrate on Arsenal who the last time we were up were a CL side and had won 3 consecutive FA Cups. Now they're below us and having to borrow money from the Bank of England. Even clubs like Southampton have been consistently above us for getting on for a decade. There's lots of ebb and flow and we are on a very clear trajectory.

I hate Leeds as much as anybody else, and the Bielsa love in. But, one of my best friends is a Leeds fan and he says that he reckons quite a few in that squad are lower Championship/League 1 level. Liam Cooper for example. Stuart Dallas doing what he did yesterday?! I think we’ve got better players than Leeds but we aren’t coached as well as Leeds are and we often look like there’s no real plan. We keep hearing the squad etc. but having a good coach can make a huge difference. I think there are pretty big question marks over Dean Smiths coaching ability and I’m not sure how many other Premier League teams would take him as manager

I’ve seen Leeds get mullered quite a few times this season, but Beilsa still get praised for his attacking intent, despite them being awful in those games.
They beat us heavily at home when we were playing well, but I’ve also seen us beat them away, when they never laid a glove on us and Smith out thought the great Beilsa.

There’s every chance we’ll finish higher than Leeds this season and probably more importantly Arsenal, in terms s of their time in the league. But still Smith gets called out.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ez on April 11, 2021, 01:56:31 PM
Quote from: Risso on April 11, 2021, 12:57:57 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on April 11, 2021, 12:46:41 PM
We are talking about a mid table, maybe top half finish in the premier League as if it's a disappointment   

When did we last finish top half? Under Houllier? Ten years ago.

I don't think we're going to finish top half.  Maybe we will though, but we haven't yet, so to be comparing it to anybody else is a bit previous.

To finish bottom half would be unfair on the likes of Grealish, Martinez, and Watkins after all their efforts this season. They don't deserve to finish bottom half.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 11, 2021, 02:04:31 PM
Quote from: Ads on April 11, 2021, 01:05:07 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on April 11, 2021, 01:01:03 PM
Quote from: Ads on April 11, 2021, 12:55:54 PM
But it wasn't game management at all. They scored because of an excellent finish and some unhurried closing from Ramsey,  in what was an isolated attack that actually brought about a rare save moments prior. Liverpool didn't look like or threaten to score at any point after their equaliser. We hadn't dropped deep, we'd just cocked up an attack ourselves 30 seconds to a minute before.
yes playing Ramsey right wing was a great game management.


The goal came centrally from a right back drifting off an inside left position (of the pitch). He wasn't Ramsey's man to mark, so his position is irrelevant. I keep asking, but I cannot fathom how you believe "game management" had anything to do with losing.
The manager had the ability to change tactics, system and players during the game.
Smith isn’t very good at it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on April 11, 2021, 02:08:56 PM
How did we lose yesterday because of an alleged absence of game management?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on April 11, 2021, 02:13:36 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on April 11, 2021, 01:29:23 PM
Think talk of a top 6 finish next season is pretty optimistic.

We would have to sign even better than last summer to have a chance of that.

This season our backline bar the odd individual error has generally performed out of their skins yet you can't just assume it will be as good next season as we saw in 09/10 and then six months later we have one of worst defences in league even though it was pretty much the same players. This due to injuries, lack of motivation etc.

We need far more goal power in final third. You look at Saint Maximn coming on for Newcastle just now and turning a 1-0 into 1-2 in five minutes, we desperately need that type of player aswell as Grealish in the team.

Then top 6 is possible but not before. A backup striker DS can actually trust to bring on every game regardless of score or opposition is also very much needed.

Would be more than happy with 8th and a very good cup run next season. Lower than that and think ownership will then have decision to make.

Trezeguet did exactly this a week ago. Over their 2 seasons in the league S-M has 6 goals and 8 assists, Trez has 8 goals and 2 assists. That doesn't scream upgrade to me, particularly given the likely £40m-ish price tag.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on April 11, 2021, 02:25:51 PM
Quote from: Ads on April 11, 2021, 12:52:09 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on April 11, 2021, 12:46:41 PM
We are talking about a mid table, maybe top half finish in the premier League as if it's a disappointment   

When did we last finish top half? Under Houllier? Ten years ago.

People seem obsessed with Leeds doing well, but so what. Good luck to them.

You could equally concentrate on Arsenal who the last time we were up were a CL side and had won 3 consecutive FA Cups. Now they're below us and having to borrow money from the Bank of England. Even clubs like Southampton have been consistently above us for getting on for a decade. There's lots of ebb and flow and we are on a very clear trajectory.
Yes that's a cute approach. Just lower the standard if you can't achieve your goal.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SaddVillan on April 11, 2021, 02:30:17 PM
Smith was a tactical genius when we tonked Liverpool 7-2.

Now he's the village idiot when we lose at their place to a last minute shot with our best player out injured.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on April 11, 2021, 02:33:22 PM
Quote from: Risso on April 11, 2021, 12:26:13 PM
Quote from: paul_e on April 11, 2021, 12:06:41 PM
Quote from: Ketzster on April 11, 2021, 11:58:03 AM
The problem is is that it isn’t just this season we’ve struggled when Grealish has been out. The evidence for the people that say everything is down to Grealish is growing rather than the other way round. Of course it makes a difference, but I’m not sure that excuses having such long spells of poor form. At times, the way people talk you’d think that Smith is managing under owners who want out and haven’t given him any money. There comes a point where you have to question these long spells of poor form without just keep saying ‘Grealish is out, what can anybody do?’. It’s the recurring nature of the problems that is the issue

As has bene said a number of times yesterday, this season the big drop off in form was the quarantine for covid shutting us down not Jack being out.

That doesn't stand up to any sort of scrutiny. Straight after the enforced covid break and until Jack was out, we won 3 out of 7 games, drew 1 and lost 3. Two of the defeats were against Man City, where we were robbed by the ref, and Burnley where we played well and should have 4-0 up at half time. West Ham was the only game we really deserved to lose. Since Jack has been out we've won two out of 8, and haven't played well in any of the games at all, apart from the odd patch.

You're both wrong I'm afraid, the decline started when somebody created a thread called "Champions League Maths". This was the league table at the time:


(https://i.ibb.co/m94zvb5/Screenshot-20210411-143149-Chrome.jpg) (https://ibb.co/m94zvb5)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on April 11, 2021, 02:34:10 PM
He's never been a tactical genius. How many times do we change formation or plan to suit different teams? The basic plan, each week, is the same thing. Win, lose or draw. Tactics don't really come into it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on April 11, 2021, 02:41:00 PM
Quote from: SaddVillan on April 11, 2021, 02:30:17 PM
Smith was a tactical genius when we tonked Liverpool 7-2.

Now he's the village idiot when we lose at their place to a last minute shot with our best player out injured.



Picking out results good or bad still doesn’t answer the question of why we have the form of a relegation threatened side when we play without Grealish
And yet most people believe that our squad is far superior to most Other teams down there even without Jack
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on April 11, 2021, 02:49:54 PM
Quote from: SaddVillan on April 11, 2021, 02:30:17 PM
Smith was a tactical genius when we tonked Liverpool 7-2.

Now he's the village idiot when we lose at their place to a last minute shot with our best player out injured.
It's not that though is it? It's the fact that without our best player we have picked up 8 points from 8 games which is bang on relegation form and Smith has not been able to do anything about it so far.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on April 11, 2021, 02:50:56 PM
Quote from: john e on April 11, 2021, 02:41:00 PM
Quote from: SaddVillan on April 11, 2021, 02:30:17 PM
Smith was a tactical genius when we tonked Liverpool 7-2.

Now he's the village idiot when we lose at their place to a last minute shot with our best player out injured.



Picking out results good or bad still doesn’t answer the question of why we have the form of a relegation threatened side when we play without Grealish
And yet most people believe that our squad is far superior to most Other teams down there even without Jack


That’s what is most frustrating. Everyone accepts that there would be a drop off in performances. But that drop off should not be that great. The results with and without him should not change us from CL form to relegation form. And the manager upon realizing that should be able to make enough adjustments so that we don’t go from 15-20 shots a game to less than 5 often against very average or even poor opponents. Also we have stuck to one formation throughout this.
Instead of introducing something new at the start of a game or during it we stick to the same thing over and over again. Coaches/scouts/analysts in this league, at this level figure things out. They know how we play and counter it. That’s what has happened to us. This is no different to that time John Terry called out publicly what everyone knew. That a MON Villa team would be exhausted later in the season. This is the top end of the professional game. If you don’t stay a step ahead you’re behind very quickly.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: algy on April 11, 2021, 04:05:05 PM
Quote from: RamboandBruno on April 11, 2021, 12:05:20 PM
Quote from: aj2k77 on April 11, 2021, 10:11:51 AM
We've won 4 of the last 17 and scored more than once in just 3 of those. That's shit. Wake up Smith. It's not a ''blip'', that's half a season of results really. 5 very difficult fixtures remaining. He needs to learn how to put a cap on these poor runs we go on. You don't get COVID breaks every year to reevaluate where it's gone wrong. Sometimes he really does look like a rookie manager. He's in his 50's.

I guess most teams that finish mid table, say 9th to 12th, have really good runs and really poor runs in a season, it’s why those teams aren’t challenging at the top, but equally arent worried about a relegation fight. I think we just need to take it for what it is, a season of progress compared to last season and then we progress some more next season hopefully.
I can understand the obvious frustrations of some on here that we aren’t progressing quick enough. But some of this smacks a bit of privilege and ‘don’t you know we’re Aston Villa’. Outside of the usual suspects of Liverpool, Manchester clubs, Chelsea and Spurs, teams like Leicester and Everton and even West Ham have infested heavily for the years we were ploughing our trade in the championship. All those clubs as well as Wolves, Leeds and Arsenal, have ambitions to be at the top table. I’m not sure where the idea comes from that because we have wealthy owners, we would turn into European certainties in our second season back comes from. There are also a lot of people who seem to have inside knowledge of what the owners are thinking, which is a bit bizarre and in some cases seems like wishful thinking in terms of using this apparent knowledge of the owners next move, to justify the fact that they themselves would quite like the manager out.

Pre season I would of took 10th this season, does it feel disappointing that, that will be our likely finishing spot after the excitement of the early months of the season, yes it does. Is it a bad second season back after a decade of shite, not in my book. We have the spine of an excellent team built by this management team. We are another forward, winger and midfield enforcer away from challenging.
Agree 100%.

You only have to look at how far we've come in the 2½ years that Dean Smith's been in charge to see how good a manager he's been so far. I'm very happy with how things have gone under him, and feel with the right team behind him we'll be more than capable to challenge for the league title in due course. That won't be instant - there's still years, perhaps decades, of mismanagement to undo - but so long as we're heading in the right direction I think Dean should stay. Really think he could be as iconic for us as Alex Fergusson is to Manchester United.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy65 on April 11, 2021, 04:08:36 PM
Quote from: SaddVillan on April 11, 2021, 02:30:17 PM
Smith was a tactical genius when we tonked Liverpool 7-2.

Now he's the village idiot when we lose at their place to a last minute shot with our best player out injured.

We haven’t played well since NYD. There doesn’t to be any plan or tactics and going forward we look clueless. It cant continue
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: BC Villain on April 11, 2021, 05:54:00 PM
"Savaged" because of some shit-stirring by the press??

https://www.footballinsider247.com/aston-villa-have-been-disrespectful-to-smith-after-gerrard-development/
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: N'ZMAV on April 11, 2021, 05:55:37 PM
Paddy Kenny?!?!? the fuck's it got to do with him?

it's just bollocks press talk
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on April 11, 2021, 05:59:01 PM
Why do people keep sharing made up clickbait shite.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on April 11, 2021, 06:00:04 PM
Short of us losing every game to the end of the season there is not a chance in hell Dean Smith is getting fired. He comfortably has until Christmas and any kind of good start next season will likely give him the full season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 11, 2021, 06:01:40 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on April 11, 2021, 06:00:04 PM
Short of us losing every game to the end of the season there is not a chance in hell Dean Smith is getting fired. He comfortably has until Christmas and any kind of good start next season will likely give him the full season.
what about 6 games?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: OCD on April 11, 2021, 06:58:13 PM
Either he's just thick or they've written his quotes for him and paid him to sign off on them to be used that way.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AV82EC on April 11, 2021, 07:42:43 PM
As Ads says I'd love to see whos behind footballinsider247. id put money on some shit stirring single prick in his basement. Simple answer don't click on clickbait shite and block them on Twatter.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: gpbarr on April 11, 2021, 08:00:24 PM
I imagine the goal the owners set this season was mid table comfort - which after last day survival is good progress. We will achieve that so job done.

Big summer ahead. I personally think Jack will leave but with the £100m from his tsfr plus another £100m from the owners we can sign 4-5 seriously talented first team players which means we will see the back of AEG, KD, NT, RB, etc.

Next season the target has to be top 8 - I think Dean deserves the chance to see if under his tenure the progress can continue.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulTheVillan on April 11, 2021, 08:15:43 PM
On paper, Dean Smith...

Promotion first time
Survival.
Mid table.

I think if we can keep the back 5 together and work on the centre midfield & wide areas then we should aim for top half next season.

We need more consistency and Dean needs to be more fluid and not stick to the same shape 99% of the time.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT on April 11, 2021, 08:17:54 PM
That ‘Football Insider” couldn’t be more made up shite if it tried.

The trouble is, loads of people link and quote it as though it’s got some sort of credibility.

Noel Whelan has more validity than whoever that is.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on April 11, 2021, 08:20:03 PM
Quote from: AV82EC on April 11, 2021, 07:42:43 PM
As Ads says I'd love to see whos behind footballinsider247. id put money on some shit stirring single prick in his basement. Simple answer don't click on clickbait shite and block them on Twatter.

They have two glassdoor reviews from former employees.


Quote
"AVOID AT ALL COSTS"
Former Employee - Content Writer in London, England, England
I worked at Football Insider full-time for less than a year
Pros
I am not sure there are many, if any at all.
Cons
Horrible working hours. No time for a lunch break in an 8 hour day otherwise employers will hound you. Nasty vibe and will not pay you anything in first 3 months if you decide to leave.
Advice to Management
Disgraceful and should be looked into soon.

"Avoid PLYP/Football Insider at all costs"
I worked at Football Insider for less than a year
Pros
There are none. Utterly atrocious company to work for. Lots of promises made but none kept.
Cons
Senior staff are unapproachable and will tell staff what they want to hear rather than tell the truth. Will avoid paying you what you are entitled to and rather than explaining the situation will block any attempts to make contact with them.
Advice to Management
Find a new line of work because you are clueless.

https://www.glassdoor.co.uk/Reviews/Football-Insider-Reviews-E2388459.htm

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on April 11, 2021, 08:48:36 PM
Quote from: paul_e on April 11, 2021, 02:13:36 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on April 11, 2021, 01:29:23 PM
Think talk of a top 6 finish next season is pretty optimistic.

We would have to sign even better than last summer to have a chance of that.

This season our backline bar the odd individual error has generally performed out of their skins yet you can't just assume it will be as good next season as we saw in 09/10 and then six months later we have one of worst defences in league even though it was pretty much the same players. This due to injuries, lack of motivation etc.

We need far more goal power in final third. You look at Saint Maximn coming on for Newcastle just now and turning a 1-0 into 1-2 in five minutes, we desperately need that type of player aswell as Grealish in the team.

Then top 6 is possible but not before. A backup striker DS can actually trust to bring on every game regardless of score or opposition is also very much needed.

Would be more than happy with 8th and a very good cup run next season. Lower than that and think ownership will then have decision to make.

Trezeguet did exactly this a week ago. Over their 2 seasons in the league S-M has 6 goals and 8 assists, Trez has 8 goals and 2 assists. That doesn't scream upgrade to me, particularly given the likely £40m-ish price tag.

Might just be me but when I watch likes of ASM and say Neto who's been mentioned in last week as an ambitious target I just think they're way better threats.

Yes El Ghazi had an excellent purple patch over xmas and we should be thankful for that as could still played part in us finishing top 10 but that's all it was. You wouldn't have known he was on the pitch last week v Fulham for example.

Trez works hard and I thought he was decent yesterday so has his uses for certain games in a season but again the other week v Spurs he just kept on making poor decisions once in final third.

Both have two years left on their deal now so we'll have to stick or twist on at least one of them.

We just need better out wide. I'm a Traore fan but he was awful yesterday aswell.

Think it will have to be the position we really up the stakes and potentially smash our club record and go big in 30-40m range to get a player more proven whereas with how well Ollie has done this year we can get in more of a development signing at CF to build up over the season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on April 11, 2021, 08:50:46 PM
Quote from: gpbarr on April 11, 2021, 08:00:24 PM
I imagine the goal the owners set this season was mid table comfort - which after last day survival is good progress. We will achieve that so job done.

Big summer ahead. I personally think Jack will leave but with the £100m from his tsfr plus another £100m from the owners we can sign 4-5 seriously talented first team players which means we will see the back of AEG, KD, NT, RB, etc.

Next season the target has to be top 8 - I think Dean deserves the chance to see if under his tenure the progress can continue.

Jack going now will simply leave too big a void to fill unless we get a couple of world class players in. We saw it all a decade ago when we replaced those leaving with relatively proven premier league players but it blew up in our faces.

Have to go all in to keep him for one more year. I think if we're not in europe in 12 months time he'll decide to leave so just got to sign more quality in final third and then we have no regrets if it dosen't work out.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on April 11, 2021, 11:08:36 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on April 11, 2021, 08:48:36 PM
Might just be me but when I watch likes of ASM and say Neto who's been mentioned in last week as an ambitious target I just think they're way better threats.

Yes El Ghazi had an excellent purple patch over xmas and we should be thankful for that as could still played part in us finishing top 10 but that's all it was. You wouldn't have known he was on the pitch last week v Fulham for example.

Trez works hard and I thought he was decent yesterday so has his uses for certain games in a season but again the other week v Spurs he just kept on making poor decisions once in final third.

Both have two years left on their deal now so we'll have to stick or twist on at least one of them.

We just need better out wide. I'm a Traore fan but he was awful yesterday aswell.

Think it will have to be the position we really up the stakes and potentially smash our club record and go big in 30-40m range to get a player more proven whereas with how well Ollie has done this year we can get in more of a development signing at CF to build up over the season.

All true but you watch Villa for 90 minutes every game (I suspect) whereas you probably only see other teams here and there or on highlights. That has a massive bearing on how you view players. Aside from that you'll be more invested in Villa players so you'll celebrate the good things more but dwell on the negatives more as well. All of that combined means you're more likely to see faults in villa players than players from other clubs. All this means that unless a player is clearly brilliant (Grealish, Konsa, Martinez) we'll focus on the negatives far more than the positives a lot of the time.

I suspect there's plenty of Newcastle fans that rate ASM but wish he had more end product.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on April 11, 2021, 11:13:27 PM
Quote from: paul_e on April 11, 2021, 11:08:36 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on April 11, 2021, 08:48:36 PM
Might just be me but when I watch likes of ASM and say Neto who's been mentioned in last week as an ambitious target I just think they're way better threats.

Yes El Ghazi had an excellent purple patch over xmas and we should be thankful for that as could still played part in us finishing top 10 but that's all it was. You wouldn't have known he was on the pitch last week v Fulham for example.

Trez works hard and I thought he was decent yesterday so has his uses for certain games in a season but again the other week v Spurs he just kept on making poor decisions once in final third.

Both have two years left on their deal now so we'll have to stick or twist on at least one of them.

We just need better out wide. I'm a Traore fan but he was awful yesterday aswell.

Think it will have to be the position we really up the stakes and potentially smash our club record and go big in 30-40m range to get a player more proven whereas with how well Ollie has done this year we can get in more of a development signing at CF to build up over the season.

All true but you watch Villa for 90 minutes every game (I suspect) whereas you probably only see other teams here and there or on highlights. That has a massive bearing on how you view players. Aside from that you'll be more invested in Villa players so you'll celebrate the good things more but dwell on the negatives more as well. All of that combined means you're more likely to see faults in villa players than players from other clubs. All this means that unless a player is clearly brilliant (Grealish, Konsa, Martinez) we'll focus on the negatives far more than the positives a lot of the time.

I suspect there's plenty of Newcastle fans that rate ASM but wish he had more end product.

I actually saw a bit of Saint Maxmin at Nice the season before he signed for Newcastle and he was actually a bit like El Ghazi then, odd bit of good player but lots of inconsistancy.

Think he's been really good for Newcastle in the whole and can step up for a better team.

The stuff you actually say I think describes pretty much Miguel Almiron and Ryan Fraser, wide players who look exciting on highlights and score the odd goal but have loads of flaws if you watch them in full games every week, they're more like Trez and AEG.

ASM is better than Traore and I like Bertrand although he was awful yesterday.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ROBBO on April 12, 2021, 01:22:56 AM
No way is Smith in danger but him bringing Barkley on is a head scratcher, i would much rather him give chances to young players that will be with us next season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT on April 20, 2021, 03:08:24 PM
Have I missed the press conference?

I can’t imagine they’ll do it tomorrow on the day of the game.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: The Edge on April 20, 2021, 06:25:06 PM
Brilliant brilliant words from Dean Smith in his press conference. He's getting a lot praise on social media.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on April 20, 2021, 06:30:33 PM
Quote from: The Edge on April 20, 2021, 06:25:06 PM
Brilliant brilliant words from Dean Smith in his press conference. He's getting a lot praise on social media.

Did he say he's considering a change of formation?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Meanwood Villa on April 20, 2021, 06:36:17 PM
Quote from: aj2k77 on April 20, 2021, 06:30:33 PM
Quote from: The Edge on April 20, 2021, 06:25:06 PM
Brilliant brilliant words from Dean Smith in his press conference. He's getting a lot praise on social media.

Did he say he's considering a change of formation?

The whole landscape of world football is potentially changing but let's not go nuts
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Meanwood Villa on April 20, 2021, 06:37:13 PM
Joking aside, well said Dean. Top man.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Brazilian Villain on April 20, 2021, 07:04:06 PM
Quote from: Meanwood Villa on April 20, 2021, 06:36:17 PM
Quote from: aj2k77 on April 20, 2021, 06:30:33 PM
Quote from: The Edge on April 20, 2021, 06:25:06 PM
Brilliant brilliant words from Dean Smith in his press conference. He's getting a lot praise on social media.

Did he say he's considering a change of formation?

The whole landscape of world football is potentially changing but let's not go nuts

 ;D

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on April 20, 2021, 07:17:36 PM
Keinan for the ESL!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan82 on April 21, 2021, 10:11:31 PM
This was looking like a great second season but the way we have let things fizzle out has really disappointed me. If this form was to continue into the start of next season, first ten games say, that would be just as bad as '19/20.

I don't know, my faith in the whole thing has taken a knock since January.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 21, 2021, 10:12:59 PM
A defeat against Olbiyon and Smith might be facing a few difficult questions from the owners.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AlexAlexCropley on April 21, 2021, 10:14:56 PM
Where is the adventure? This fart arsing square ball midfield bollocks is killing us.
I think he's gone all risk averse. Seriously losing it with him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy65 on April 21, 2021, 10:15:46 PM
Quote from: Villan82 on April 21, 2021, 10:11:31 PM
This was looking like a great second season but the way we have let things fizzle out has really disappointed me. If this form was to continue into the start of next season, first ten games say, that would be just as bad as '19/20.

I don't know, my faith in the whole thing has taken a knock since January.

We need a change. It’s gone horribly stale. Awful performance tonight. Verging on embarrassing. 4 wins in 18 or similar. Come the end of the season it could be something like 5 wins in 25.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan82 on April 21, 2021, 10:16:01 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on April 21, 2021, 10:12:59 PM
A defeat against Olbiyon and Smith might be facing a few difficult questions from the owners.

We spent a lot of money and have blown a fantastic start to the season. it's as if the players and coaches decided to hit the beach once e got to 30 odd points.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Richard on April 21, 2021, 10:16:53 PM
As many defeats as wins now. A lot of players going through the motions or just not good enough. I think next season Dean has it all to do or I reckon he'll be gone.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on April 21, 2021, 10:17:39 PM
Quote from: Villan82 on April 21, 2021, 10:16:01 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on April 21, 2021, 10:12:59 PM
A defeat against Olbiyon and Smith might be facing a few difficult questions from the owners.

We spent a lot of money and have blown a fantastic start to the season. it's as if the players and coaches decided to hit the beach once e got to 30 odd points.

Or it's as if we had to close the training ground for 2 weeks in the middle of the season because of a virus outbreak in the squad and it completely derailed our season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy65 on April 21, 2021, 10:18:34 PM
Quote from: paul_e on April 21, 2021, 10:17:39 PM
Quote from: Villan82 on April 21, 2021, 10:16:01 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on April 21, 2021, 10:12:59 PM
A defeat against Olbiyon and Smith might be facing a few difficult questions from the owners.

We spent a lot of money and have blown a fantastic start to the season. it's as if the players and coaches decided to hit the beach once e got to 30 odd points.

Or it's as if we had to close the training ground for 2 weeks in the middle of the season because of a virus outbreak in the squad and it completely derailed our season.

Straws and clutching
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on April 21, 2021, 10:18:40 PM
Terrible. Same insipid line ups, tactics and substitutions. Oh look, here comes El Ghazi for Traore. Let's bring on Ross for a mild jog about and to practice giving the ball away.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on April 21, 2021, 10:19:20 PM
No Dean we are not seeing any improvement in your team. Disregarding from freak results at the start of the season we are as awful as we were last season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Smirker on April 21, 2021, 10:20:40 PM
Second half of the season isn't Smith's fault.

Grealish injury and the Covid break did it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on April 21, 2021, 10:21:34 PM
Quote from: Smirker on April 21, 2021, 10:20:40 PM
Second half of the season isn't Smith's fault.

Grealish injury and the Covid break did it.

Bloody hell, so we can't cope with a two week break? Other teams seem to manage it when there are international games on.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on April 21, 2021, 10:21:59 PM
Quote from: Rudy65 on April 21, 2021, 10:18:34 PM
Quote from: paul_e on April 21, 2021, 10:17:39 PM
Quote from: Villan82 on April 21, 2021, 10:16:01 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on April 21, 2021, 10:12:59 PM
A defeat against Olbiyon and Smith might be facing a few difficult questions from the owners.

We spent a lot of money and have blown a fantastic start to the season. it's as if the players and coaches decided to hit the beach once e got to 30 odd points.

Or it's as if we had to close the training ground for 2 weeks in the middle of the season because of a virus outbreak in the squad and it completely derailed our season.

Straws and clutching

Or facts backed by stats, you decide.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan82 on April 21, 2021, 10:22:39 PM
Yes, the Covid outbreak was highly disruptive and we are hardly the only team affected? Besides, we know more about how Covid affected other clubs than how it affected us because everything is top secret at villa.

The results have been absolutely abysmal since Burnley away when we contrived to lose that game we dominated (post Covid btw).
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on April 21, 2021, 10:23:43 PM
Same shit, different match. Roll on next season. This ones done. FFS don’t lose to the Albion!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Smirker on April 21, 2021, 10:24:37 PM
Quote from: Risso on April 21, 2021, 10:21:34 PM
Quote from: Smirker on April 21, 2021, 10:20:40 PM
Second half of the season isn't Smith's fault.

Grealish injury and the Covid break did it.

Bloody hell, so we can't cope with a two week break? Other teams seem to manage it when there are international games on.

It wasn't a two week rest, it was a health issue. Our players who tested positive may still be recovering.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy65 on April 21, 2021, 10:25:32 PM
Quote from: paul_e on April 21, 2021, 10:21:59 PM
Quote from: Rudy65 on April 21, 2021, 10:18:34 PM
Quote from: paul_e on April 21, 2021, 10:17:39 PM
Quote from: Villan82 on April 21, 2021, 10:16:01 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on April 21, 2021, 10:12:59 PM
A defeat against Olbiyon and Smith might be facing a few difficult questions from the owners.

We spent a lot of money and have blown a fantastic start to the season. it's as if the players and coaches decided to hit the beach once e got to 30 odd points.

Or it's as if we had to close the training ground for 2 weeks in the middle of the season because of a virus outbreak in the squad and it completely derailed our season.

Straws and clutching

Or facts backed by stats, you decide.

They are professional athletes who have all recovered from COVID. None of them have been missing from the squad since the two week break. They would be monitored relentlessly for their health and bloods etc. They wouldn’t be playing if they were still ‘ill’. Poor excuse in my view
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on April 21, 2021, 10:28:03 PM
Our game plan has been found out/Grealish missing is surely more likely than Covid-related effects?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on April 21, 2021, 10:28:36 PM
Too many excuses for not being good enough. COVID, Grealish is out etc. None of it should stop us from competing, putting in the hard yards, passing to another claret shirt, working your nuts off.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on April 21, 2021, 10:29:19 PM
Quote from: Smirker on April 21, 2021, 10:24:37 PM

It wasn't a two week rest, it was a health issue. Our players who tested positive may still be recovering.

All of the first team were straight back into games after the two weeks, which slightly kills that theory dead.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on April 21, 2021, 10:30:34 PM
Quote from: Rudy65 on April 21, 2021, 10:25:32 PM
They are professional athletes who have all recovered from COVID. None of them have been missing from the squad since the two week break. They would be monitored relentlessly for their health and bloods etc. They wouldn’t be playing if they were still ‘ill’. Poor excuse in my view

And yet:

Pre-covid: played 15, 8 wins, 29 goals, 26 points
Post-covid: played 16, 5 wins, 15 goals, 18 points

I'm not making an excuse, I'm pointing out the very clear split in the season. Even without stats every genuinely good performance from us was in those first 15, since then we've looked a shadow of that team. Grealish being out has been part of it but even before his injury we looked a lot less fluid and were struggling to make the vast amount of chances that we'd been seeing every game earlier in the season.

I don't know why the break affected us so badly but arguing that it didn't or that it's an excuse is ignoring what is right in front of you.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: BC Villain on April 21, 2021, 10:31:45 PM
At what point does his position become untenable?  Lose to the stripeys and I would say that will be that
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: West Derby Villan on April 21, 2021, 10:32:07 PM
Quote from: paul_e on April 21, 2021, 10:30:34 PM
Quote from: Rudy65 on April 21, 2021, 10:25:32 PM
They are professional athletes who have all recovered from COVID. None of them have been missing from the squad since the two week break. They would be monitored relentlessly for their health and bloods etc. They wouldn’t be playing if they were still ‘ill’. Poor excuse in my view

And yet:

Pre-covid: played 15, 8 wins, 29 goals, 26 points
Post-covid: played 16, 5 wins, 15 goals, 18 points

I'm not making an excuse, I'm pointing out the very clear split in the season. Even without stats every genuinely good performance from us was in those first 15, since then we've looked a shadow of that team. Grealish being out has been part of it but even before his injury we looked a lot less fluid and were struggling to make the vast amount of chances that we'd been seeing every game earlier in the season.

I don't know why the break affected us so badly but arguing that it didn't or that it's an excuse is ignoring what is right in front of you.

Agree
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on April 21, 2021, 10:32:12 PM
Fucking no chance.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on April 21, 2021, 10:33:13 PM
Quote from: BC Villain on April 21, 2021, 10:31:45 PM
At what point does his position become untenable?  Lose to the stripeys and I would say that will be that

Seriously? Don't be a silly billy.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on April 21, 2021, 10:33:53 PM
Quote from: paul_e on April 21, 2021, 10:30:34 PM
Quote from: Rudy65 on April 21, 2021, 10:25:32 PM
They are professional athletes who have all recovered from COVID. None of them have been missing from the squad since the two week break. They would be monitored relentlessly for their health and bloods etc. They wouldn’t be playing if they were still ‘ill’. Poor excuse in my view

And yet:

Pre-covid: played 15, 8 wins, 29 goals, 26 points
Post-covid: played 16, 5 wins, 15 goals, 18 points

I'm not making an excuse, I'm pointing out the very clear split in the season. Even without stats every genuinely good performance from us was in those first 15, since then we've looked a shadow of that team. Grealish being out has been part of it but even before his injury we looked a lot less fluid and were struggling to make the vast amount of chances that we'd been seeing every game earlier in the season.

I don't know why the break affected us so badly but arguing that it didn't or that it's an excuse is ignoring what is right in front of you.

You're making the age old mistake of confusing correlation with causation. Our midfield is rubbish, and so are our wide players without Jack. Covid isn't the reason that Traore is shite, 9 times out of 10, or that Barkley keeps getting picked despite offering precisiely nothing. It's pften been said that Smith is a streaky manager, and this is another poor run of form from him. Half a season of relegation form.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy65 on April 21, 2021, 10:36:00 PM
Quote from: paul_e on April 21, 2021, 10:30:34 PM
Quote from: Rudy65 on April 21, 2021, 10:25:32 PM
They are professional athletes who have all recovered from COVID. None of them have been missing from the squad since the two week break. They would be monitored relentlessly for their health and bloods etc. They wouldn’t be playing if they were still ‘ill’. Poor excuse in my view

And yet:

Pre-covid: played 15, 8 wins, 29 goals, 26 points
Post-covid: played 16, 5 wins, 15 goals, 18 points

I'm not making an excuse, I'm pointing out the very clear split in the season. Even without stats every genuinely good performance from us was in those first 15, since then we've looked a shadow of that team. Grealish being out has been part of it but even before his injury we looked a lot less fluid and were struggling to make the vast amount of chances that we'd been seeing every game earlier in the season.

I don't know why the break affected us so badly but arguing that it didn't or that it's an excuse is ignoring what is right in front of you.

You are solely blaming COVID. I disagree. It’s because we are playing boring, insipid football bereft of any game plan or tactics. We have been awful as backed up by your stats but COVID isn’t the reason. Players and the management are too blame

Play like this next season and we are bottom 3 at Xmas
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on April 21, 2021, 10:36:40 PM
Quote from: Risso on April 21, 2021, 10:33:53 PM
Quote from: paul_e on April 21, 2021, 10:30:34 PM
Quote from: Rudy65 on April 21, 2021, 10:25:32 PM
They are professional athletes who have all recovered from COVID. None of them have been missing from the squad since the two week break. They would be monitored relentlessly for their health and bloods etc. They wouldn’t be playing if they were still ‘ill’. Poor excuse in my view

And yet:

Pre-covid: played 15, 8 wins, 29 goals, 26 points
Post-covid: played 16, 5 wins, 15 goals, 18 points

I'm not making an excuse, I'm pointing out the very clear split in the season. Even without stats every genuinely good performance from us was in those first 15, since then we've looked a shadow of that team. Grealish being out has been part of it but even before his injury we looked a lot less fluid and were struggling to make the vast amount of chances that we'd been seeing every game earlier in the season.

I don't know why the break affected us so badly but arguing that it didn't or that it's an excuse is ignoring what is right in front of you.

You're making the age old mistake of confusing correlation with causation. Our midfield is rubbish, and so are our wide players without Jack. Covid isn't the reason that Traore is shite, 9 times out of 10, or that Barkley keeps getting picked despite offering precisiely nothing. It's pften been said that Smith is a streaky manager, and this is another poor run of form from him. Half a season of relegation form.

I'm really not, your making your common mistake of having decided everything is shit and refusing to even consider there may be reasons for it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on April 21, 2021, 10:37:47 PM
Quote from: BC Villain on April 21, 2021, 10:31:45 PM
At what point does his position become untenable?  Lose to the stripeys and I would say that will be that

With respect, I think that is a ridiculous thing to say.
You sound as though you want us to lose ?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AndyB6 on April 21, 2021, 10:39:06 PM
What concerns me is what if Grealish starts next season then gets a long-term injury?
What will Smith do?
His inability / reluctance / refusal to make any kind of tactical changes is infuriating.
We can't just keep waiting for more players. Every team that plays us knows exactly what to expect. Even if Jack plays, it would seem if you double up on him then none of our players have the nous to use the extra space and time this creates in other areas on the pitch.
I do wonder how well they are being coached.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on April 21, 2021, 10:39:35 PM
Quote from: Rudy65 on April 21, 2021, 10:36:00 PM
Quote from: paul_e on April 21, 2021, 10:30:34 PM
Quote from: Rudy65 on April 21, 2021, 10:25:32 PM
They are professional athletes who have all recovered from COVID. None of them have been missing from the squad since the two week break. They would be monitored relentlessly for their health and bloods etc. They wouldn’t be playing if they were still ‘ill’. Poor excuse in my view

And yet:

Pre-covid: played 15, 8 wins, 29 goals, 26 points
Post-covid: played 16, 5 wins, 15 goals, 18 points

I'm not making an excuse, I'm pointing out the very clear split in the season. Even without stats every genuinely good performance from us was in those first 15, since then we've looked a shadow of that team. Grealish being out has been part of it but even before his injury we looked a lot less fluid and were struggling to make the vast amount of chances that we'd been seeing every game earlier in the season.

I don't know why the break affected us so badly but arguing that it didn't or that it's an excuse is ignoring what is right in front of you.

You are solely blaming COVID. I disagree. It’s because we are playing boring, insipid football bereft of any game plan or tactics. We have been awful as backed up by your stats but COVID isn’t the reason. Players and the management are too blame

Play like this next season and we are bottom 3 at Xmas

I'm not solely blaming covid, I'm pointing out that the team post-covid looks nothing like the one pre-covid, either on paper or to watch during games. I don't know why (as I said) but there is a very clear dividing line between our performances (results as well but the drop in quality of our play is far greater than the drop in points).
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy65 on April 21, 2021, 10:41:53 PM
Quote from: BC Villain on April 21, 2021, 10:31:45 PM
At what point does his position become untenable?  Lose to the stripeys and I would say that will be that

Our run in is v tough. The stats over the last 25 games come the end of the season could look awful
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on April 21, 2021, 10:41:59 PM
Quote from: paul_e on April 21, 2021, 10:36:40 PM

I'm really not, your making your common mistake of having decided everything is shit and refusing to even consider there may be reasons for it.

Everything is shit at the moment, and the reasons are:

Poor wingers - Traore, El Ghazi and Trezeguet nowhere near the required standard
Limited manager - lower league manager doing his very best, but tactically rigid and unable to change matches
Poor passing from midfield, and very little goal threat
Insistence on perservering with very obviously poor players like Barkley
Jack Grealish injury- we're utterly reliant on him for any attacking ability

Covid - not sure why two weeks off three months go would still be having an effect now. The main reason for anybody with a pair of eyes is Jack being out, and nobody else who can remotely replace him or support Watkins.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on April 21, 2021, 10:47:28 PM
He's not a lower league manager.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on April 21, 2021, 10:48:28 PM
Quote from: Risso on April 21, 2021, 10:41:59 PM
Quote from: paul_e on April 21, 2021, 10:36:40 PM

I'm really not, your making your common mistake of having decided everything is shit and refusing to even consider there may be reasons for it.

Everything is shit at the moment, and the reasons are:

Poor wingers - Traore, El Ghazi and Trezeguet nowhere near the required standard
Limited manager - lower league manager doing his very best, but tactically rigid and unable to change matches
Poor passing from midfield, and very little goal threat
Insistence on perservering with very obviously poor players like Barkley
Jack Grealish injury- we're utterly reliant on him for any attacking ability

Covid - not sure why two weeks off three months go would still be having an effect now. The main reason for anybody with a pair of eyes is Jack being out, and nobody else who can remotely replace him or support Watkins.

We're poor now because our confidence is shot and how that's showing itself is that no one wants the ball.

I agree the midfield is a problem, I don't blame the wingers as much because they're not getting any decent possession, when they try something and it doesn't work it gets focused on because they only get a few touches of the ball for long stretches and we need them to make things happen every time, add the confidence issues in the entire squad and you get the peformances we're seeing.

On Smith in particular it's strange that he wasn't a limited manager (according to anyone on here) 6 months ago when we were tearing Liverpool and Arsenal to pieces.

Missing Grealish is clearly a problem, no one denies that, but it's not the only reason things have fallen away and it's not where it started.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: andyh on April 21, 2021, 10:49:01 PM
Our problems lie with Jacks absence and started with his injury flaring up again.
He makes everyone in the team play better, not just the midfield or the strikers. Look at Targett, he is a world beater with Jack in front of him. He is just a jobbing full back when Jack isn’t there.

I have said before, Jack makes average players raise their game and be very, very good. When he is not playing they become very average again.
And being average isn’t going to win very many premier league games.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on April 21, 2021, 10:49:10 PM
We had the element of surprise til the New Year but teams had half a season to work us out and they've done that. Dean hasn't shifted tactically and we've lost our best player.

Our half-decent players have dipped in form (the defense have remained pretty consistent) due to the poorer results and it then becomes a cycle.

We'd probably need a couple of quick back to back wins to get that confidence back but given our run-in that looks unlikely. I'd be thrilled with three more wins this season (West Brom, Palace and one of the Everton games the most likely).
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on April 21, 2021, 10:49:54 PM
Quote from: Ads on April 21, 2021, 10:47:28 PM
He's not a lower league manager.

Ability wise I think he is. He's just one who's very lucky to have exceedingly rich owners and to have inherited Jack Grealish, and one who gets a lot of slack because he's a Villa fan.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on April 21, 2021, 10:51:39 PM
He actually tried to mix it up straight after the red card with the Davis sub which is rare thing to do. It didn't work (mainly due to Cash being an idiot which you can't account for) but quicker doing something than usual.

Blunt truth is results v Man. City don't impact on our season I'm afraid. Likes of Everton and Arsenal just above us have lost home and away to them.

Needs to get a result on Sunday though. One thing just meekly accepting the season fizzling out but just accepting losing to a local rival who are still more than likely going to get relegated would be really poor mentality.

Much more looking forward to that game than tonight which was the usual get it over with and keep the scoreline down night.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Goldenballs on April 21, 2021, 10:52:10 PM
If Smith did leave at the end of the season, do you see another Prem team appointing him?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 21, 2021, 10:52:17 PM
The Covid excuse is wearing a bit thin
If this run of form continues to the end of the season he won’t be here next season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on April 21, 2021, 10:55:06 PM
Quote from: Steve67 on April 21, 2021, 10:28:36 PM
Too many excuses for not being good enough. COVID, Grealish is out etc. None of it should stop us from competing, putting in the hard yards, passing to another claret shirt, working your nuts off.

With the obvious exception of Barks and to be honest I'd throw Traore in there too as he really is getting on my wick, I dont see a lack of effort from the players. But the lack of quality from midfield up is huge and without Grealish is exposed every game. Smith has been unable to change things tactically and the football we are playing is dreadful.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on April 21, 2021, 10:55:24 PM
Quote from: Goldenballs on April 21, 2021, 10:52:10 PM
If Smith did leave at the end of the season, do you see another Prem team appointing him?

Nope.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AndyB6 on April 21, 2021, 10:55:33 PM
Quote from: Goldenballs on April 21, 2021, 10:52:10 PM
If Smith did leave at the end of the season, do you see another Prem team appointing him?

No chance.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AndyB6 on April 21, 2021, 10:56:45 PM
Would be amazed to see him in the Premier League again after he leaves us.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on April 21, 2021, 11:00:04 PM
Brighton would have him if Potter left as their set up is very similar.

No one with straight face could type he wouldn't be doing better than Bruce at Newcastle.

Palace would certainly have him aswell if he was available.

All three more established prem teams than us at this current moment.

I think with last two years he's earnt that sort of prem club at least given he's got a team up, kept us up (just) and kicked on more this season.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: danno on April 21, 2021, 11:03:32 PM
Where should we be finishing with these players?
I think mid table with this squad is pretty good going.

Our back five is good, Watkins has had a fine season, but our midfield and wide areas need some upgrades.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: cdbearsfan on April 21, 2021, 11:03:32 PM
Quote from: Goldenballs on April 21, 2021, 10:52:10 PM
If Smith did leave at the end of the season, do you see another Prem team appointing him?

Definitely. He would be seen as a manager who built good sides at Walsall and Brentford and then took Villa from mid-table in the Championship to survival and then mid-table (probably) in the Premier League.

This is a league that keeps providing employment for people like Steve Bruce. I doubt Smith would have much trouble getting a job, even if he isn't the most glamorous appointment.

That said, I do think he might have a nervous May if we don't provide some signs of improvement between now and the end of the season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on April 21, 2021, 11:04:15 PM
The lack of squad depth influences this, but fucking hell Dean needs to work out different ways to play. If our standard approach doesn’t work we’re very poor and this has been the case for months now. The set up just isn’t working.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on April 21, 2021, 11:05:33 PM
Not really a day to say that considering we played a different system than we normally do at the start and switched to a different on half time and another after the sending off.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on April 21, 2021, 11:06:51 PM
Quote from: Risso on April 21, 2021, 10:49:54 PM
Quote from: Ads on April 21, 2021, 10:47:28 PM
He's not a lower league manager.

Ability wise I think he is. He's just one who's very lucky to have exceedingly rich owners and to have inherited Jack Grealish, and one who gets a lot of slack because he's a Villa fan.
Lack of ability is shown through  failure to restructure the team tactically and personnel  wise to deal with Jack being not available.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on April 21, 2021, 11:07:11 PM
Quote from: andyh on April 21, 2021, 10:49:01 PM
Our problems lie with Jacks absence and started with his injury flaring up again.
He makes everyone in the team play better, not just the midfield or the strikers. Look at Targett, he is a world beater with Jack in front of him. He is just a jobbing full back when Jack isn’t there.

I have said before, Jack makes average players raise their game and be very, very good. When he is not playing they become very average again.
And being average isn’t going to win very many premier league games.

Our problems started before Jack's injury. We had a fortunate win at Southampton where he carried the team on his back with very little support around him. A farcical VAR call went in our favour that day too. Those kind of performances weren't going to get us many points even if he were fit. I think teams realised around then if they pressed our midfield two (Luiz/McGinn) we would go route one to Watkins far too often. Smith wasn't able to rectify that with Jack and without him we are a bit of a rabble in truth.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on April 21, 2021, 11:09:46 PM
Quote from: Ads on April 21, 2021, 11:05:33 PM
Not really a day to say that considering we played a different system than we normally do at the start and switched to a different on half time and another after the sending off.


We played exactly the same system we always do, just with a slightly different set of players due to injuries.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on April 21, 2021, 11:09:54 PM
Ok I’ll re-phrase to play different ways effectively. It’s probably unfair to say Dean hasn’t attempted different things on occasion, but they very rarely are successful. When it happens it seems scattershot and there isn’t really a clear plan behind the changes, or if there is it isn’t well implemented.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on April 21, 2021, 11:15:23 PM
Quote from: brontebilly on April 21, 2021, 11:07:11 PM
Quote from: andyh on April 21, 2021, 10:49:01 PM
Our problems lie with Jacks absence and started with his injury flaring up again.
He makes everyone in the team play better, not just the midfield or the strikers. Look at Targett, he is a world beater with Jack in front of him. He is just a jobbing full back when Jack isn’t there.

I have said before, Jack makes average players raise their game and be very, very good. When he is not playing they become very average again.
And being average isn’t going to win very many premier league games.

Our problems started before Jack's injury. We had a fortunate win at Southampton where he carried the team on his back with very little support around him. A farcical VAR call went in our favour that day too. Those kind of performances weren't going to get us many points even if he were fit. I think teams realised around then if they pressed our midfield two (Luiz/McGinn) we would go route one to Watkins far too often. Smith wasn't able to rectify that with Jack and without him we are a bit of a rabble in truth.



Turning point for me was Burnley second half. We were excellent 60 minutes and then threw the game away with lax defending. West Ham then came a week later and completely outplayed us and think from that moment squad lost confidence we could finish 6th or 7th and Jack injury just compounded it.

Eventually though in the coming years they'll be pressure not just from us but the ownership to actually push on for once if we're comfortable top half after 20 odd games so that's the true test for DS in the near future otherwise he'll simply be replaced.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on April 21, 2021, 11:17:36 PM
Quote from: Ads on April 21, 2021, 11:05:33 PM
Not really a day to say that considering we played a different system than we normally do at the start and switched to a different on half time and another after the sending off.


We changed system because of sending off. Otherwise it would have been the usual 4-3-3, Traore, El Ghazi, Sub on 70 minutes........ rinse, repeat. We've been well and truly figured out.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ads on April 21, 2021, 11:17:42 PM
Quote from: Risso on April 21, 2021, 11:09:46 PM
Quote from: Ads on April 21, 2021, 11:05:33 PM
Not really a day to say that considering we played a different system than we normally do at the start and switched to a different on half time and another after the sending off.


We played exactly the same system we always do, just with a slightly different set of players due to injuries.

We played with 2 deep and a midfielder tucking in, depending on what side Ramsey was on. We then went 442 and then 342. We didn't play our more conventional 433 today in the usual way we do.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: BC Villain on April 21, 2021, 11:19:14 PM
Quote from: eamonn on April 21, 2021, 10:33:13 PM
Quote from: BC Villain on April 21, 2021, 10:31:45 PM
At what point does his position become untenable?  Lose to the stripeys and I would say that will be that

Seriously? Don't be a silly billy.

Let me make it clear, I'm not calling for  Dean Smith to be sacked given what's been achieved since he came to the club.  He's been successful, something the previous managers going back ten years havent been.

However, you can't ignore that we've been abysmal since the turn of the year, plus his record without Jack Grealish even in the Championship was poor and does little to counter the critics who keep saying he's the sole reason we were as good as we were in the first part of the season.  This is all after spending a small fortune as well.  Dean being a Villa fan should absolutely NOT protect him.

I would think (and expect) NSWE to be asking some very uncomfortable questions of Dean Smith if this runs allowed to continue. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on April 21, 2021, 11:19:32 PM
Quote from: Ads on April 21, 2021, 11:17:42 PM
Quote from: Risso on April 21, 2021, 11:09:46 PM
Quote from: Ads on April 21, 2021, 11:05:33 PM
Not really a day to say that considering we played a different system than we normally do at the start and switched to a different on half time and another after the sending off.


We played exactly the same system we always do, just with a slightly different set of players due to injuries.

We played with 2 deep and a midfielder tucking in, depending on what side Ramsey was on. We then went 442 and then 342. We didn't play our more conventional 433 today in the usual way we do.

We started with the usual 4-2-3-1 that we've played for a large part of this season.  Not sure you can really claim a change in formation due to a red card!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: BC Villain on April 21, 2021, 11:25:30 PM
Quote from: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on April 21, 2021, 10:37:47 PM
Quote from: BC Villain on April 21, 2021, 10:31:45 PM
At what point does his position become untenable?  Lose to the stripeys and I would say that will be that

With respect, I think that is a ridiculous thing to say.
You sound as though you want us to lose ?

No I don't.  I want him to turn it round.  But more fans are losing patience with him as these performances pile up.  Losing to Albion will hardly help his cause.  I'm not seeing any signs of him arresting this slump.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on April 21, 2021, 11:27:25 PM
We don't go route 1, what we've been doing is worse than that. We try to keep hold of the ball and move it through midfield but because so many of the players are struggling for confidence there are no obvious passes on to move forward so we have 2 choices: go for a 50/50 pass and risk giving the ball away or go backwards, if we go for the latter the inevitable consequence is that eventually we'll go long to try to break away.

Earlier in the season (the Liverpool game is a perfect example) everyone was moving off the ball so we could go back-to-front in a handful of passes and catch teams out but for whatever reason we haven't been doing that since January. The only good performance I can think of since then was the Burnley defeat but that was more that Grealish was on fire than anything we were doing as a team.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on April 21, 2021, 11:29:26 PM
I still think that when it’s not clicking there isn’t a sense that we can shift game plan and be more effective. We end up looking toothless and out ball retention is appalling.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on April 21, 2021, 11:30:16 PM
Quote from: paul_e on April 21, 2021, 11:27:25 PM
We don't go route 1, what we've been doing is worse than that. We try to keep hold of the ball and move it through midfield but because so many of the players are struggling for confidence there are no obvious passes on to move forward so we have 2 choices: go for a 50/50 pass and risk giving the ball away or go backwards, if we go for the latter the inevitable consequence is that eventually we'll go long to try to break away.

Earlier in the season (the Liverpool game is a perfect example) everyone was moving off the ball so we could go back-to-front in a handful of passes and catch teams out but for whatever reason we haven't been doing that since January. The only good performance I can think of since then was the Burnley defeat but that was more that Grealish was on fire than anything we were doing as a team.

Also at the start of the season, Martinez was brilliant at launching quick attacks, either with an accurate kick to someone up front, or with a quick throw out to a full back. That's mostly all gone now, all we get is him hanging on to the ball, then a 50:50 kick out. Not his fault, with Jack out nobody actually wants the ball.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: stubbsyandy on April 21, 2021, 11:31:23 PM
Quote from: BC Villain on April 21, 2021, 11:25:30 PM
Quote from: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on April 21, 2021, 10:37:47 PM
Quote from: BC Villain on April 21, 2021, 10:31:45 PM
At what point does his position become untenable?  Lose to the stripeys and I would say that will be that

With respect, I think that is a ridiculous thing to say.
You sound as though you want us to lose ?

No I don't.  I want him to turn it round.  But more fans are losing patience with him as these performances pile up.  Losing to Albion will hardly help his cause.  I'm not seeing any signs of him arresting this slump.

Really? This time last year we would be ecstatic to be in this position! Promotion when all seemed lost, stayed up when all seemed lost and a brilliant, yes brilliant start to the season...we are at the beginning of where we will be, patience and appreciation of what we have achieved is right for now.  But we need on going investment and PLEASE, no more Barkley and the like loan signings
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on April 21, 2021, 11:32:10 PM
Quote from: BC Villain on April 21, 2021, 11:19:14 PM
Quote from: eamonn on April 21, 2021, 10:33:13 PM
Quote from: BC Villain on April 21, 2021, 10:31:45 PM
At what point does his position become untenable?  Lose to the stripeys and I would say that will be that

Seriously? Don't be a silly billy.

Let me make it clear, I'm not calling for  Dean Smith to be sacked given what's been achieved since he came to the club.  He's been successful, something the previous managers going back ten years havent been.

However, you can't ignore that we've been abysmal since the turn of the year, plus his record without Jack Grealish even in the Championship was poor and does little to counter the critics who keep saying he's the sole reason we were as good as we were in the first part of the season.  This is all after spending a small fortune as well.  Dean being a Villa fan should absolutely NOT protect him.

I would think (and expect) NSWE to be asking some very uncomfortable questions of Dean Smith if this runs allowed to continue. 


Bar losing every single game left (which probably isn't out of the question if Jack isn't seen again) he'll be here next season.

Eventually though the time will come when we're 7th or 8th after 20 odd games in a season and it won't be acceptable for us to just give up even if we lose a key player to injury. We'll be expected to get into europa as a minimum.

We're still a bit off that but make no mistake with what the owners have pumped in already and will probably continue to do over next 2-3 years they'll be expecting a manager capable of pushing us on and finish a season strongly when we're actually in the top half of the league (as opposed to just getting points to stay up).

It's not impossible. Moyes would've been seen as a joke appointment in 2017 yet West Ham have actually got stronger in last three months, largely on the back of one January signing and they've got as good a chance as anyone in finishing in the top 4 now. The frustation remains that could've been us given where we were even in mid February.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: BC Villain on April 21, 2021, 11:45:28 PM
Quote from: stubbsyandy on April 21, 2021, 11:31:23 PM
Quote from: BC Villain on April 21, 2021, 11:25:30 PM
Quote from: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on April 21, 2021, 10:37:47 PM
Quote from: BC Villain on April 21, 2021, 10:31:45 PM
At what point does his position become untenable?  Lose to the stripeys and I would say that will be that

With respect, I think that is a ridiculous thing to say.
You sound as though you want us to lose ?

No I don't.  I want him to turn it round.  But more fans are losing patience with him as these performances pile up.  Losing to Albion will hardly help his cause.  I'm not seeing any signs of him arresting this slump.

Really? This time last year we would be ecstatic to be in this position! Promotion when all seemed lost, stayed up when all seemed lost and a brilliant, yes brilliant start to the season...we are at the beginning of where we will be, patience and appreciation of what we have achieved is right for now.  But we need on going investment and PLEASE, no more Barkley and the like loan signings

Sorry, but based on the performances early in the season,  the regression is alarming.  We've gone from being one of the most exciting teams in the table to easily one of the dullest.

Not pleased to see Smith's comments tonight about "standing in awe of some wonderful Man City passing" either.  Far too much respect being shown
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on April 22, 2021, 12:04:08 AM
Quote from: Risso on April 21, 2021, 10:41:59 PM
Quote from: paul_e on April 21, 2021, 10:36:40 PM

I'm really not, your making your common mistake of having decided everything is shit and refusing to even consider there may be reasons for it.

Everything is shit at the moment, and the reasons are:

Poor wingers - Traore, El Ghazi and Trezeguet nowhere near the required standard
Limited manager - lower league manager doing his very best, but tactically rigid and unable to change matches
Poor passing from midfield, and very little goal threat
Insistence on perservering with very obviously poor players like Barkley
Jack Grealish injury- we're utterly reliant on him for any attacking ability

Covid - not sure why two weeks off three months go would still be having an effect now. The main reason for anybody with a pair of eyes is Jack being out, and nobody else who can remotely replace him or support Watkins.

Also, Smith ran the players into the ground in the first half of the season. Failing to even use subs a lot of the time even when we had matches won. We lost two perfectly acceptable back up players on loan as a result. This shit with Barkley started back in those home defeats to Leeds and Southampton where he didn't try a leg without the ball but was let complete the 90 mins.

Then doubling down with a Mike Bassett type statement post covid (6 games in 18 days) that he didn't believe in player fatigue, which eventually nobbles his star player and his right back (backup right back now in France). It's a minor miracle the likes of Watkins and McGinn haven't picked up injuries. I'm not sure sure Watkins has missed a minute of league action yet, can anyone confirm?

If nothing else, this summer is huge for getting in much needed quality into the squad. But Smith has to use the squad a lot better throughout the season. Not repeating the same mistakes MON and Gregory did.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: adrenachrome on April 22, 2021, 12:13:38 AM
Quote from: Ads on April 21, 2021, 11:17:42 PM
Quote from: Risso on April 21, 2021, 11:09:46 PM
Quote from: Ads on April 21, 2021, 11:05:33 PM
Not really a day to say that considering we played a different system than we normally do at the start and switched to a different on half time and another after the sending off.


We played exactly the same system we always do, just with a slightly different set of players due to injuries.

We played with 2 deep and a midfielder tucking in, depending on what side Ramsey was on. We then went 442 and then 342. We didn't play our more conventional 433 today in the usual way we do.

Yes we played very narrowly in defence to stop them playing though us. They just used the width and pinged crosses in at will.

BTW, Pat Nevin opined we were playing 4-2-4 in the second half against Fulham.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on April 22, 2021, 12:22:19 AM
The season is finished. We've got to try to avoid ending on a huge bum note by losing most of the remaining fixtures. Then you'd be looking at a 25 game bad spell.....  which obviously isn't good enough.

He's built up a lot of credit in the bank but start the next season poorly and with the money we've spent the owners will be getting twitchy over someone who seems oblivious to anything other than plan A, which is a busted flush right now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Goldie.7 on April 22, 2021, 12:43:38 AM
I don't get how we can go from excellent.

(https://i.postimg.cc/hG7J2spb/nice.jpg)

To really, really bad. It's just too extreme.
 
(https://i.postimg.cc/NFppJdLj/puke.jpg)

Only we could go from the top 4 to joint relegation fodder in a few months. If you actually look at the table no other team has tanked so hard this season other than us. It's actually quite astonishing.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on April 22, 2021, 01:05:23 AM
Southampton were only 3 off us after 16 games and indeed were above us in early January.

We're more closer to them in our current development than likes of Spurs and Everton I'm afraid.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: sid1964 on April 22, 2021, 07:05:19 AM
We need to win a few games between now and the end of the season to give us momentum going into next season - starting on Sunday against the Albion


Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 22, 2021, 07:08:05 AM
That table is very worrying.
I do not think it is acceptable to be on that run of form and just put it down to Jack and the Covid break.
All the games between now and the end of the season except Palace are against teams that are likely to be competitive.
I don’t think Dean can allow this run of form to continue but I am not sure that he has any idea how to stop it other than the return of Grealish.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: bjfoster on April 22, 2021, 07:18:35 AM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on April 22, 2021, 01:05:23 AM
Southampton were only 3 off us after 16 games and indeed were above us in early January.

We're more closer to them in our current development than likes of Spurs and Everton I'm afraid.

Which is what you would expect. I think everyone said at the start of the season it was about getting into the next bracket of teams (Southampton, Palace, Wolves). We’ve done that with the players we’ve brought in, obviously us being without Jack is a worry of the dip in form.

It’s going to take another very successful transfer window to get us near Everton or Spurs. And that’s without them strengthening in the summer.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aev on April 22, 2021, 07:21:41 AM
We still don't really look like we know how to play without Grealish, and we have had a fair amount of opportunity to sort it out.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on April 22, 2021, 07:22:40 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on April 22, 2021, 07:08:05 AM
That table is extremely worrying.
I do not think it is acceptable to be on that run of form and just put it down to Jack and the Covid break.
All the games between now and the end of the season except Palace are against teams that are likely to be competitive.
I don’t think Dean can allow this run of form to continue but I am not sure that he has any idea how to stop it other than the return of Grealish.

Extremely worrying is a tad over the top I think.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 22, 2021, 07:33:26 AM
Quote from: Clampy on April 22, 2021, 07:22:40 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on April 22, 2021, 07:08:05 AM
That table is extremely worrying.
I do not think it is acceptable to be on that run of form and just put it down to Jack and the Covid break.
All the games between now and the end of the season except Palace are against teams that are likely to be competitive.
I don’t think Dean can allow this run of form to continue but I am not sure that he has any idea how to stop it other than the return of Grealish.

Extremely worrying is a tad over the top I think.
You are right, the poster said astonishing and I will amend to very worrying.
If I was Dean Smith I would be more than concerned with what is happening and just a little fearful for my future job prospects.
I don think he can afford to lose another 4 or 5 games this season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on April 22, 2021, 07:37:10 AM
He just shows no sign of being able to turn this around. He really could do with a win against West Brom, or I think he'll find the tide of opinion starting to turn quite quickly if he loses that.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on April 22, 2021, 07:44:05 AM
Quote from: Clampy on April 22, 2021, 07:22:40 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on April 22, 2021, 07:08:05 AM
That table is extremely worrying.
I do not think it is acceptable to be on that run of form and just put it down to Jack and the Covid break.
All the games between now and the end of the season except Palace are against teams that are likely to be competitive.
I don’t think Dean can allow this run of form to continue but I am not sure that he has any idea how to stop it other than the return of Grealish.

Extremely worrying is a tad over the top I think.

Well I’m worried about it, I don’t see how anyone can’t be?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: algy on April 22, 2021, 07:44:21 AM
Quote from: Risso on April 22, 2021, 07:37:10 AM
He just shows no sign of being able to turn this around.
Haven't we had that same conversation twice before though, in the Championship and then last season?  And he did turn it around, both times?

I dunno, he seems a bit of a streaky manager and I don't know why that's the case.  But I think this season, the COVID outbreak has absolutely nobbled us.  I know when I've had flu or whatever, I don't get back to anywhere near my same cycling ability for a week or so.  COVID seems like it might be something with more long-term effects than flu, so in that respect it's not overly surprising that some of our players look sluggish now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on April 22, 2021, 07:53:36 AM
Quote from: algy on April 22, 2021, 07:44:21 AM
Quote from: Risso on April 22, 2021, 07:37:10 AM
He just shows no sign of being able to turn this around.
Haven't we had that same conversation twice before though, in the Championship and then last season?  And he did turn it around, both times?

I dunno, he seems a bit of a streaky manager and I don't know why that's the case.  But I think this season, the COVID outbreak has absolutely nobbled us.  I know when I've had flu or whatever, I don't get back to anywhere near my same cycling ability for a week or so.  COVID seems like it might be something with more long-term effects than flu, so in that respect it's not overly surprising that some of our players look sluggish now.


We all know how he’s turned it round in the past
And we know why we are out of relegation trouble this season

And it’s down to one man and that man was sitting in the stands again last night
We are currently doomed without him
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on April 22, 2021, 07:56:24 AM
Although i've though for a while this is how it's going to be this season, and that we are going to be inconsistent, I will admit, I am a little bit worried that we are finding a degree of consistency now - unfortunately, it is being consistently poor.

We were never going to get anything from last night, I can accept that, begrudgingly, but it's the other matches, from which we should get something but in which we look poor that worry me.

We are massively, massively reliant on Jack.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on April 22, 2021, 08:16:54 AM
Quote from: Three Spires Villa on April 22, 2021, 07:44:05 AM
Quote from: Clampy on April 22, 2021, 07:22:40 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on April 22, 2021, 07:08:05 AM
That table is extremely worrying.
I do not think it is acceptable to be on that run of form and just put it down to Jack and the Covid break.
All the games between now and the end of the season except Palace are against teams that are likely to be competitive.
I don’t think Dean can allow this run of form to continue but I am not sure that he has any idea how to stop it other than the return of Grealish.

Extremely worrying is a tad over the top I think.

Well I’m worried about it, I don’t see how anyone can’t be?

I'm not worried about sitting just below mid-table. It could and probably should have been better and next season it will have to be.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on April 22, 2021, 08:25:51 AM
Quote from: Clampy on April 22, 2021, 08:16:54 AM
Quote from: Three Spires Villa on April 22, 2021, 07:44:05 AM
Quote from: Clampy on April 22, 2021, 07:22:40 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on April 22, 2021, 07:08:05 AM
That table is extremely worrying.
I do not think it is acceptable to be on that run of form and just put it down to Jack and the Covid break.
All the games between now and the end of the season except Palace are against teams that are likely to be competitive.
I don’t think Dean can allow this run of form to continue but I am not sure that he has any idea how to stop it other than the return of Grealish.

Extremely worrying is a tad over the top I think.

Well I’m worried about it, I don’t see how anyone can’t be?

I'm not worried about sitting just below mid-table. It could and probably should have been better and next season it will have to be.

You're right about that, mid table is where we more or less could realistically hope to be. From that point of view, assuming we stay there, that's solid progress.

What worries me is that it's a points base built large on a relatively short period in which we went on a decent run and banked a load of points.

If you look at current form - 16 points from the last 16 games I read last night - then that paints a different picture.

I guess what I am saying is, the way the season has panned out thus far tells a different story.

Brentford fans said that Dean was a 'streaky' manager. I guess this is what they mean.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: steamer on April 22, 2021, 08:38:25 AM
Without a crystal ball to see what can happen in the close season it is difficult to Imagine us starting next season with the verve we started this one with.
If we start off as we are ending then we are going to have a problem.
But lets see what additions come in, if we are struggling like we currently are by Christmas then Dean could have a problem
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on April 22, 2021, 08:42:14 AM
He has no idea how to arrest slumps, because he bangs on with the same approach. It will take Grealish to come back and do his job for him.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on April 22, 2021, 08:43:07 AM
I just posed the questions on the post-match thread: Is the team's apparent lethargy a result of Smith's management style? And, has this group of players accepted that we are a one-man team?
To have had such a dramatic swing in form seems weird. Has Smith peaked?

We need a really good summer of considered player-acquisition, to include, as a priority, a couple of players who can nail down our midfield and manage the ball-winning and possession way better than currently.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on April 22, 2021, 09:22:10 AM
Quote from: algy on April 22, 2021, 07:44:21 AM
Quote from: Risso on April 22, 2021, 07:37:10 AM
He just shows no sign of being able to turn this around.
Haven't we had that same conversation twice before though, in the Championship and then last season?  And he did turn it around, both times?

I dunno, he seems a bit of a streaky manager and I don't know why that's the case.  But I think this season, the COVID outbreak has absolutely nobbled us.  I know when I've had flu or whatever, I don't get back to anywhere near my same cycling ability for a week or so.  COVID seems like it might be something with more long-term effects than flu, so in that respect it's not overly surprising that some of our players look sluggish now.

That just stand up to any scrutiny. I can't find the quote now but in one interview Smith alluded to the fact that one first teamer had had symptoms. Certainly after the two week lay off, the starting team for the Burnley game was this:

Martinez
Cash
Konsa
Mings
Targett
McGinn
Luiz
Grealish
Traore
Barkley
Watkins

Trez, El Ghazi and Davis came on.

There's no way at all anybody suffering symptoms at the time would have been played, not with the amount of effort we put into the sports science side of the game and managing loads etc. We actually played really well in that game as well, with lots of energy and fizz, we were just undone by two really bad bits of defending.  So if they weren't suffering the effects then, then they certainly aren't now. The difference is almost entirely down to Jack. When he's at his best, he's unplayable, and then you can get away with the likes of Traore and Trez not exactly being world beaters. We're now in a usual Smith run of form where confidence is shot, he does the same old things and we can't buy a win.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villan82 on April 22, 2021, 09:24:27 AM
The form in this calendar year is dreadful and my worry is it will raise questions with our star players as to whether the team is going any where.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Monty on April 22, 2021, 09:26:21 AM
Quote from: Villan82 on April 22, 2021, 09:24:27 AM
The form in this calendar year is dreadful and my worry is it will raise questions with our star players as to whether the team is going any where.

Let's see how he does with a few more star players then!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on April 22, 2021, 09:27:47 AM
Quote from: Villan82 on April 22, 2021, 09:24:27 AM
The form in this calendar year is dreadful and my worry is it will raise questions with our star players as to whether the team is going any where.

The scab 12 not getting their ESL money might help us in that regard. Attracting other top players wouldn't have been a problem in the first half of the season but the way things are going that could be a struggle this summer too.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on April 22, 2021, 10:15:14 AM
To be fair to Smith, he hasn't got any players who can put their foot on the ball and dictate play. Grealish is one of the very best at it, Barkley should have been but he's been pretty awful since his injury and that of course ties in with Grealish being out.

I was a little surprised we went with Davis so advanced as he's normally pretty good at retaining possession, though again some of the balls to him really didn't help him much at all last night.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Three Spires Villa on April 22, 2021, 10:24:50 AM
It is not the mid table position that is a worry, it is the recent lack of form and results that is the worry. 1 win 10 v Fulham. Same mistakes all the time. It needs to change or we go into season on a bum note.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on April 22, 2021, 10:29:31 AM
Aren't most managers "streaky" ones? You lose a game, you lose a little confidence; then you lose another and confidence wanes further. I would imagine that is far more common than a win followed by a defeat and then a draw and a win and another defeat etc.

The psychology of losing consecutively and playing within yourself, being less brave on the ball for fear of making a mistake...all of that rings true as clichéd truth so I don't think our bad runs are just the preserve of Dean. Most clubs outside of the "elite" (and even then, Liverpool aren't immune as their recent form shows) suffer from it at some stage of a season.

The same can be applied to winning regularly. There is a spring in your step, training is more fun, you take more attacking risks which come off etc. You win ten in a row and get to the Play-Off final seemingly from nowhere etc.

I do wonder if at this stage of professional football's evolution whether any club feel they've really nailed-it in terms of sports psychology and getting the best behavioural sports-scientists to make sure their players confidence is as primed as it can be? Or will it forever be the case that, being human, players will always be susceptible to self-doubt?
Playing behind closed doors in Pandemic Times at least gives a comparative/case study to see how much the players are affected both positively and negatively by the lack of crowds cheering/jeering them on.


Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ez on April 22, 2021, 11:42:29 AM
It's all about the midfield. We've got good defenders, a good goalkeeper and a good striker. The problem is we have a one man midfield and he's injured. We've got several other midfielders but they contribute very little. Traore and Sanson are no better than what we already have.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on April 22, 2021, 12:00:54 PM
It's a tricky one - we're getting close to the point we were at with MON where we can buy players who are as good as the ones we've already got but we don't have the funds (due to FFP) or the Champions League allure to bring in players who will genuinely take us to the next step.

Selling Jack for a fortune would address the first point but make it less likely short-term that we'll make Europe.

MON just kept filling the squad with top 10 players who were never good enough for the top 4 and we all saw how that ended.

I think (hope) the strategy is to bring in young players with promise and develop them in to top 4 quality, but that doesn't happen overnight and we're going to have plenty of frustrating results and performances on the journey.  Lambert tried the same but wasn't good enough to develop the players.  Smith has at least shown he's capable of developing players so in that respect I'm minded to give him more time.

The other way of looking at it is to say which other manager (who's available) could get more out of this group of players?  I'm not sure there's anyone obvious.  The issue is the quality of the players, not the manager.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Bad English on April 22, 2021, 12:07:18 PM
Quote from: eamonn on April 22, 2021, 10:29:31 AM
Aren't most managers "streaky" ones? You lose a game, you lose a little confidence;
Over time this can lead to rasher tactics.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on April 22, 2021, 12:12:54 PM
Quote from: Ad@m on April 22, 2021, 12:00:54 PM
It's a tricky one - we're getting close to the point we were at with MON where we can buy players who are as good as the ones we've already got but we don't have the funds (due to FFP) or the Champions League allure to bring in players who will genuinely take us to the next step.

Selling Jack for a fortune would address the first point but make it less likely short-term that we'll make Europe.

MON just kept filling the squad with top 10 players who were never good enough for the top 4 and we all saw how that ended.

I think (hope) the strategy is to bring in young players with promise and develop them in to top 4 quality, but that doesn't happen overnight and we're going to have plenty of frustrating results and performances on the journey.  Lambert tried the same but wasn't good enough to develop the players.  Smith has at least shown he's capable of developing players so in that respect I'm minded to give him more time.

The other way of looking at it is to say which other manager (who's available) could get more out of this group of players?  I'm not sure there's anyone obvious.  The issue is the quality of the players, not the manager.

You never know who's available until there's a vacancy. Some people were saying "who will want to manage us if we sack Bruce, who got us to the play off final and steadied the ship?" Then we appointed Smith, who was in a job and therefore technically not available but when Bruce was sacked, he suddenly made himself available. As to who would come in next, who knows, it depends on the ambition of the owners going forward, but a Premier League club, with no debt and ambitious owners with a record of backing the manager is never going to be short of applicants.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 22, 2021, 12:23:32 PM
Quote from: steamer on April 22, 2021, 08:38:25 AM
Without a crystal ball to see what can happen in the close season it is difficult to Imagine us starting next season with the verve we started this one with.
If we start off as we are ending then we are going to have a problem.
But lets see what additions come in, if we are struggling like we currently are by Christmas then Dean could have a problem
I can not see him being given that long.
We now have ambitious owners that want to see progress and half’s season of relegation form is not going to cut it.
The pressure will be on if he doesn’t get some performances over the last 6 games.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Axl Rose on April 22, 2021, 12:27:29 PM
Quote from: Bad English on April 22, 2021, 12:07:18 PM
Quote from: eamonn on April 22, 2021, 10:29:31 AM
Aren't most managers "streaky" ones? You lose a game, you lose a little confidence;
Over time this can lead to rasher tactics.

Or a pig's ear of substitutions.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on April 22, 2021, 12:29:32 PM
Quote from: Axl Rose on April 22, 2021, 12:27:29 PM
Quote from: Bad English on April 22, 2021, 12:07:18 PM
Quote from: eamonn on April 22, 2021, 10:29:31 AM
Aren't most managers "streaky" ones? You lose a game, you lose a little confidence;
Over time this can lead to rasher tactics.

Or a pig's ear of substitutions.

Dean needs to find a cure.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Axl Rose on April 22, 2021, 12:30:45 PM
Quote from: LeeB on April 22, 2021, 12:29:32 PM
Quote from: Axl Rose on April 22, 2021, 12:27:29 PM
Quote from: Bad English on April 22, 2021, 12:07:18 PM
Quote from: eamonn on April 22, 2021, 10:29:31 AM
Aren't most managers "streaky" ones? You lose a game, you lose a little confidence;
Over time this can lead to rasher tactics.

Or a pig's ear of substitutions.

Dean needs to find a cure.

He needs to gRind out a result anytime soon.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ez on April 22, 2021, 12:32:57 PM
If the poor form continues and carries over into next season Smith will be gone then, after about 6 games in.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: CT on April 22, 2021, 12:36:05 PM
Quote from: Axl Rose on April 22, 2021, 12:30:45 PM
Quote from: LeeB on April 22, 2021, 12:29:32 PM
Quote from: Axl Rose on April 22, 2021, 12:27:29 PM
Quote from: Bad English on April 22, 2021, 12:07:18 PM
Quote from: eamonn on April 22, 2021, 10:29:31 AM
Aren't most managers "streaky" ones? You lose a game, you lose a little confidence;
Over time this can lead to rasher tactics.

Or a pig's ear of substitutions.

Dean needs to find a cure.

He needs to gRind out a result anytime soon.

Tough against City though mate. They hog the ball for the entire game.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: caster troy on April 22, 2021, 12:36:20 PM
I'm disappointed Dean isn't giving more of our youngsters a chance in what seems to be ideal conditions. Low risk, no crowd pressure, squad hit by injuries and loss of form. Maybe plan A was to loan them out next season first, but whats the harm in giving them a go now? We didn't see Kaine Kesler at all when Cash was injured, we have no in form or fit wingers but theres no sign of Louie Barry even on the bench. We have two England u19 creative midfielders that can't get 20 mins despite no Grealish, Sanson and Barkley turning into a hungover sunday league player.

Jacob Ramsey has shown you can step up at that age without looking out of place. For example if Kesler could do the same at right back we could sell Guilbert in the summer and add funds for the top targets we need.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: algy on April 22, 2021, 12:47:51 PM
Quote from: Axl Rose on April 22, 2021, 12:30:45 PM
Quote from: LeeB on April 22, 2021, 12:29:32 PM
Quote from: Axl Rose on April 22, 2021, 12:27:29 PM
Quote from: Bad English on April 22, 2021, 12:07:18 PM
Quote from: eamonn on April 22, 2021, 10:29:31 AM
Aren't most managers "streaky" ones? You lose a game, you lose a little confidence;
Over time this can lead to rasher tactics.

Or a pig's ear of substitutions.

Dean needs to find a cure.

He needs to gRind out a result anytime soon.
Come on, that's enough of that. We need to get bacon track.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ez on April 22, 2021, 12:51:37 PM
Quote from: algy on April 22, 2021, 12:47:51 PM
Quote from: Axl Rose on April 22, 2021, 12:30:45 PM
Quote from: LeeB on April 22, 2021, 12:29:32 PM
Quote from: Axl Rose on April 22, 2021, 12:27:29 PM
Quote from: Bad English on April 22, 2021, 12:07:18 PM
Quote from: eamonn on April 22, 2021, 10:29:31 AM
Aren't most managers "streaky" ones? You lose a game, you lose a little confidence;
Over time this can lead to rasher tactics.

Or a pig's ear of substitutions.

Dean needs to find a cure.

He needs to gRind out a result anytime soon.
Come on, that's enough of that. We need to get bacon track.
We're scratching around for results at the moment.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Axl Rose on April 22, 2021, 01:05:09 PM
Quote from: CT on April 22, 2021, 12:36:05 PM
Quote from: Axl Rose on April 22, 2021, 12:30:45 PM
Quote from: LeeB on April 22, 2021, 12:29:32 PM
Quote from: Axl Rose on April 22, 2021, 12:27:29 PM
Quote from: Bad English on April 22, 2021, 12:07:18 PM
Quote from: eamonn on April 22, 2021, 10:29:31 AM
Aren't most managers "streaky" ones? You lose a game, you lose a little confidence;
Over time this can lead to rasher tactics.

Or a pig's ear of substitutions.

Dean needs to find a cure.

He needs to gRind out a result anytime soon.

Tough against City though mate. They hog the ball for the entire game.

Sow what? Their tactics boared me rigid.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on April 22, 2021, 01:19:57 PM
Quote from: ez on April 22, 2021, 12:51:37 PM
Quote from: algy on April 22, 2021, 12:47:51 PM
Quote from: Axl Rose on April 22, 2021, 12:30:45 PM
Quote from: LeeB on April 22, 2021, 12:29:32 PM
Quote from: Axl Rose on April 22, 2021, 12:27:29 PM
Quote from: Bad English on April 22, 2021, 12:07:18 PM
Quote from: eamonn on April 22, 2021, 10:29:31 AM
Aren't most managers "streaky" ones? You lose a game, you lose a little confidence;
Over time this can lead to rasher tactics.

Or a pig's ear of substitutions.

Dean needs to find a cure.

He needs to gRind out a result anytime soon.
Come on, that's enough of that. We need to get bacon track.
We're scratching around for results at the moment.

He needs to sign a very solid Danish Player in the summer.  We look smoked out at the moment.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on April 22, 2021, 01:58:00 PM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on April 22, 2021, 01:19:57 PM
Quote from: ez on April 22, 2021, 12:51:37 PM
Quote from: algy on April 22, 2021, 12:47:51 PM
Quote from: Axl Rose on April 22, 2021, 12:30:45 PM
Quote from: LeeB on April 22, 2021, 12:29:32 PM
Quote from: Axl Rose on April 22, 2021, 12:27:29 PM
Quote from: Bad English on April 22, 2021, 12:07:18 PM
Quote from: eamonn on April 22, 2021, 10:29:31 AM
Aren't most managers "streaky" ones? You lose a game, you lose a little confidence;
Over time this can lead to rasher tactics.

Or a pig's ear of substitutions.

Dean needs to find a cure.

He needs to gRind out a result anytime soon.
Come on, that's enough of that. We need to get bacon track.
We're scratching around for results at the moment.

He needs to sign a very solid Danish Player in the summer.  We look smoked out at the moment.
I'm hoping we re-find our sizzle and start grilling a few opponents.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Mister E on April 22, 2021, 02:01:07 PM
Quote from: caster troy on April 22, 2021, 12:36:20 PM
I'm disappointed Dean isn't giving more of our youngsters a chance in what seems to be ideal conditions. Low risk, no crowd pressure, squad hit by injuries and loss of form. Maybe plan A was to loan them out next season first, but whats the harm in giving them a go now? We didn't see Kaine Kesler at all when Cash was injured, we have no in form or fit wingers but theres no sign of Louie Barry even on the bench. We have two England u19 creative midfielders that can't get 20 mins despite no Grealish, Sanson and Barkley turning into a hungover sunday league player.
Jacob Ramsey has shown you can step up at that age without looking out of place. For example if Kesler could do the same at right back we could sell Guilbert in the summer and add funds for the top targets we need.
Several people on here have said - after the CV-19 break in January and with the acquisition of 40 points - that we should be using this time to develop the squad and give the best of the kids some game-time. There would be very few downsides if done well; with big potential upsides. Would we, for example, have leaked loads of goals last night if Chuk had come on instead of Ross? - I think not! We may even have been more attacking.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on April 22, 2021, 02:39:42 PM
We don't  want to go back to being in hock to the banks.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on April 22, 2021, 02:56:45 PM
Quote from: brian green on April 22, 2021, 02:39:42 PM
We don't  want to go back to being in hock to the banks.

It holds us back.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Monty on April 22, 2021, 02:58:15 PM
Quote from: LeeB on April 22, 2021, 02:56:45 PM
Quote from: brian green on April 22, 2021, 02:39:42 PM
We don't  want to go back to being in hock to the banks.

It holds us back.

Good thing we've now got our snouts in the trough.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on April 22, 2021, 03:05:43 PM
All this is making me feel hungry can somebody post a sausage link.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on April 22, 2021, 05:30:29 PM
Brian, you should get Djamon Green to start posting here again.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on April 22, 2021, 06:09:31 PM
I do have some serious doubts and questions about Dean Smith and here’s why

I remember when Smith first came going down to QPR
We lost that game I think it was one nil but I came away feeling happy
I was happy because we were trying to play football again
We’d had a few seasons of Bruce Ball and this was What I wanted Dean Smith’s aggressive attacking playmaking football wow the future looked good and great

A lot of the players on the night were not good enough to play that way
And I thought and we said on here many times wait till he brings his own players in
Wait until he gets the players brought in specifically to play his way

Drummond who is certainly not a critic of Smith on the previous page says we haven’t got any players who can put their foot on the ball and direct play
Why not !
they are all Smiths players virtually all of them have been bought in on his watch these are his players brought in to play his way and they struggle to string two passes together
It’s pathetic to watch

What happened to the we are going to take it to every team
What happened to the progressive attacking footballing policy
What happened to the gung ho taking a few risks
There is nothing on these games anymore and he’s still putting out fucking Barclay who can hardly move

I mean what’s going on
What’s changed why have we gone from trying to be an attractive attacking football team to no better than WBA
I know I bang on about Grealish and think it’s mostly him thats bought about the success we’ve had in the last two seasons
But even so what’s happened to Smiths football philosophy
Why has he morphed into Bruce McLeish and Lambert

He is a great speaker he talks a good game
I thought his response to the super league was the best I heard from any manager
But he’s losing the plot out there on the pitch
Our form is dreadful against good and bad teams

Then we say well we need better players how many more millions do we need to spend on players
Bielsa has got Bamford playing like Paolo Rossi
People don’t like hearing about the Bielsa all the time and the reason for that is because he’s a bloody good manager
Better than ours at the moment
And the comparisons will always be made as the clubs came up after being in the championship for a while at around about the same time

I don’t think Dean Smith is good enough from what I’ve seen to take us into the top six what we do about that is not for me to decide but I do know the bar is now higher than it ever has been and we need to see signs of hitting it when we haven’t got Grealish in the team



Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on April 22, 2021, 06:10:18 PM
Just looked at that and it was a bloody long post sorry
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: aj2k77 on April 22, 2021, 06:13:36 PM
We even got beat by a Sheff Utd, one of the worst teams to grace the division, down to 10 men and we still couldn't break them down. He really struggles to think on the fly and make changes that affect the game. El Ghazi for Traore or Trezeguet week in week out doesn't cut it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ez on April 22, 2021, 06:21:44 PM
I wonder how much the change in attitude is down to Craig Shakespeare.  I'm struggling to see anything positive since his arrival.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on April 22, 2021, 06:25:32 PM
Quote from: ez on April 22, 2021, 06:21:44 PM
I wonder how much the change in attitude is down to Craig Shakespeare.  I'm struggling to see anything positive since his arrival.

Yet at the beginning of the season we were playing the best football we’ve seen in a decade and a lot of people said it was his influence
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: andyh on April 22, 2021, 07:53:59 PM
Quote from: Goldie.7 on April 22, 2021, 12:43:38 AM
I don't get how we can go from excellent.

(https://i.postimg.cc/hG7J2spb/nice.jpg)

To really, really bad. It's just too extreme.
 
(https://i.postimg.cc/NFppJdLj/puke.jpg)

Only we could go from the top 4 to joint relegation fodder in a few months. If you actually look at the table no other team has tanked so hard this season other than us. It's actually quite astonishing.
What are these tables actually showing. First 16 games of the season in the first. What is the second table showing ?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on April 22, 2021, 08:22:08 PM
The last 16 games.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: andyh on April 22, 2021, 08:28:58 PM
But there are 18’s and 17’s in there against some teams. It’s not exactly a direct comparison for all teams.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on April 22, 2021, 08:33:43 PM
Yes, but 16 from 16 is woeful whatever the other teams have done.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: andyh on April 22, 2021, 08:36:05 PM
Quote from: Risso on April 22, 2021, 08:33:43 PM
Yes, but 16 from 16 is woeful whatever the other teams have done.
Oh, I totally agree but I’m going to share it with a mate who thinks everything is still rosy and will try and rip the data apart. I’m still going to send it though.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on April 22, 2021, 09:34:14 PM
The big picture is that Dean does winning runs and losing runs. For me it indicates lack of flexibility.  The ability to identify potential problems and correct them quickly.  He holds his views very strongly but excellence in any field of endeavour requires lightness of touch, imaginative outwitting of an opponent.  I like Dean very much but he has the capacity to be very much more successful.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Flamingo Lane on April 22, 2021, 10:07:06 PM
I like Smith, I'm sure we all do, and yes it needs to be said that we have seen steady improvement in our position since he became manager, and we are clearly in a better place now than when he joined.  However, what has been achieved has been achieved in what I'd call a scrappy way, by our finger nails, and three seasons into his tenure I do not see a team with solidity and a sense of identity and clear sense of direction emerging.  These last few months have been especially poor, in fact we are now consistently poor, and some of Smith's decisions are becoming increasingly baffling, most notably the game time he continues to give to a clearly useless loanee.  In my eyes, the remainder of this season is critical - performances need to improve, with or without Jack Grealish in the team. 
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Villafirst on April 22, 2021, 10:21:32 PM
I don't know why DS shipped out Conor and Freddie Guilbert. Those two would be good options, especially Conor who is a set piece specialist and chips in with goals. The options up front are so limited forcing Ollie to play nearly every minute with little recovery in between games. The upcoming transfer window is absolutely crucial this summer. A £100m spend will be required to bolster the squad to add quality and better choices from the bench.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brian green on April 22, 2021, 10:22:44 PM
The problem with stubborn people is that their stubbornness prevents them accepting advice on the pitfalls of being stubborn.  Errors or shortcomings clearly apparent to others become totemic.  Good advice becomes perceived as fault finding.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: tony scott on April 22, 2021, 10:48:49 PM
Dean doesn’t have a squad that’s good enough to play attractive football for the majority of games some of this down to recent purchases Ross and Bertrand where both brought in to provide a spark to our play I think at moment all they do is show their limitations. I was hoping that Dean and his coach’s could improve players we’ve brought into the squad, with a couple of exceptions this doesn’t appear to be happening.  We will improve on last season which is good. I hope Dean has a solution because he’s seeing what’s happening at the present with more clarity than we can.  My big concern is we continue to the end othseason in our present form, which will be very difficult to take out the mindset of our players for next season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave shelley on April 23, 2021, 08:36:43 AM
Deano has a wealth of footballing experience around him in the dug-out and if we can see where his game management is wrong, surely they can,  receiving advice and choosing to ignore it is not an admirable trait. Presuming he receives that advice.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on April 23, 2021, 09:38:19 AM
Quote from: brian green on April 22, 2021, 10:22:44 PM
The problem with stubborn people is that their stubbornness prevents them accepting advice on the pitfalls of being stubborn.  Errors or shortcomings clearly apparent to others become totemic.  Good advice becomes perceived as fault finding.

I'm not stubborn, and you won't change my mind.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on April 23, 2021, 09:41:31 AM
Just as a comparator, Everton are currently without a win in 6 games and play Arsenal later, which could stretch it to 7. Does that mean that Ancelloti isn't up to it?

Every manager has tough runs, every team has poor results, and we're no different. We're years and years behind most of the division but we're going to be mid-table at the end of the season. The worry for me would start next, if we have a winless streak then, I'd say trouble is afoot.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on April 23, 2021, 09:44:03 AM
Quote from: Drummond on April 23, 2021, 09:41:31 AM
Just as a comparator, Everton are currently without a win in 6 games and play Arsenal later, which could stretch it to 7. Does that mean that Ancelloti isn't up to it?

Every manager has tough runs, every team has poor results, and we're no different. We're years and years behind most of the division but we're going to be mid-table at the end of the season. The worry for me would start next, if we have a winless streak then, I'd say trouble is afoot.

I agree, the concern is ending the season flat and then not starting well the next season heaps pressure on.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: olaftab on April 23, 2021, 09:54:28 AM
Quote from: Drummond on April 23, 2021, 09:41:31 AM
Just as a comparator, Everton are currently without a win in 6 games and play Arsenal later, which could stretch it to 7. Does that mean that Ancelloti isn't up to it?

Every manager has tough runs, every team has poor results, and we're no different. We're years and years behind most of the division but we're going to be mid-table at the end of the season. The worry for me would start next, if we have a winless streak then, I'd say trouble is afoot.
Yes but....
Over the last 16 games, that's half a season, we have been in bottom 3 form. This is consistent poor performance not just a bad run. Furthermore Dean has not found a solution to play effectively without Jack. They way it's going it's very worrying for next season and our hopes of holding onto Jack.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on April 23, 2021, 09:56:17 AM
Quote from: Drummond on April 23, 2021, 09:41:31 AM
Just as a comparator, Everton are currently without a win in 6 games and play Arsenal later, which could stretch it to 7. Does that mean that Ancelloti isn't up to it?

Every manager has tough runs, every team has poor results, and we're no different. We're years and years behind most of the division but we're going to be mid-table at the end of the season. The worry for me would start next, if we have a winless streak then, I'd say trouble is afoot.

On the other hand, if Everton win, they'll be three points off a Champions League spot. So no, I wouldn't say that Ancelloti isn't up to it. They've tailed off a bit but still have a good chance of Europe. All we're trying to do now seemingly is finish ahead of Wolves.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ketzster on April 23, 2021, 10:03:28 AM
Quote from: olaftab on April 23, 2021, 09:54:28 AM
Quote from: Drummond on April 23, 2021, 09:41:31 AM
Just as a comparator, Everton are currently without a win in 6 games and play Arsenal later, which could stretch it to 7. Does that mean that Ancelloti isn't up to it?

Every manager has tough runs, every team has poor results, and we're no different. We're years and years behind most of the division but we're going to be mid-table at the end of the season. The worry for me would start next, if we have a winless streak then, I'd say trouble is afoot.
Yes but....
Over the last 16 games, that's half a season, we have been in bottom 3 form. This is consistent poor performance not just a bad run. Furthermore Dean has not found a solution to play effectively without Jack. They way it's going it's very worrying for next season and our hopes of holding onto Jack.

And it’s not just a bad run in the Premier League, there was the shocking run in the Championship as well when he still had better players at his disposal than most other teams, even with Grealish out injured
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on April 23, 2021, 10:14:40 AM
Quote from: Ketzster on April 23, 2021, 10:03:28 AM
Quote from: olaftab on April 23, 2021, 09:54:28 AM
Quote from: Drummond on April 23, 2021, 09:41:31 AM
Just as a comparator, Everton are currently without a win in 6 games and play Arsenal later, which could stretch it to 7. Does that mean that Ancelloti isn't up to it?

Every manager has tough runs, every team has poor results, and we're no different. We're years and years behind most of the division but we're going to be mid-table at the end of the season. The worry for me would start next, if we have a winless streak then, I'd say trouble is afoot.
Yes but....
Over the last 16 games, that's half a season, we have been in bottom 3 form. This is consistent poor performance not just a bad run. Furthermore Dean has not found a solution to play effectively without Jack. They way it's going it's very worrying for next season and our hopes of holding onto Jack.

And it’s not just a bad run in the Premier League, there was the shocking run in the Championship as well when he still had better players at his disposal than most other teams, even with Grealish out injured

Yeah, and that's why we're still stuck in that division after nearly three years..
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: LeeB on April 23, 2021, 10:34:26 AM
"Shocking", lol.

(https://media1.tenor.com/images/5bae66739d6aa8a4b332467d5ac245f1/tenor.gif?itemid=16870024)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: caster troy on April 23, 2021, 10:50:44 AM
Plan A was Grealish on the left, Barkley 10 and then whoever was in the best form out of El Ghazi, Trezeguet and Traore on the right. That was good enough to get us to 4th, credit to Smith we looked really good back then. But we also needed a plan B for when teams were succeeding in marking Jack out of the game (e.g. West Ham at home), and a plan C for if Jack was injured, and we didn't have either of those. The frustration for me is we haven't taken this time to experiment and look for a different approach, we've just carried on the same system but with worse players on the pitch.

You could say he has limited options but presumably it was also his decision to go into the season with two fit strikers, one of them hugely inexperienced and lacking in goals. Big summer ahead to resolve these issues or we will go backwards next year.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on April 23, 2021, 11:00:39 AM
Almost every team goes on bad runs. Liverpool's six home defeats in a row is arguably Bingo's most impressive achievement with them.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ketzster on April 23, 2021, 11:08:51 AM
Yes well it was a pretty shocking run in the Championship. People say it will be fine with better players, but it wasn’t when we had better players than other teams in the Championship when Grealish was out. You can ignore that run in the Championship and stuff but just buying better players won’t solve Smiths tactical inflexibility and not knowing what to do if plan A isn’t working. We can’t keep having long spells like this when a player is missing. It’s not just 6 games. 15 in the Championship, more than 10 now etc
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on April 23, 2021, 11:13:15 AM
Quote from: eamonn on April 23, 2021, 11:00:39 AM
Almost every team goes on bad runs.

Usually ending when they play us!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on April 23, 2021, 11:19:03 AM
Quote from: Risso on April 23, 2021, 11:13:15 AM
Quote from: eamonn on April 23, 2021, 11:00:39 AM
Almost every team goes on bad runs.

Usually ending when they play us!

So true and really pisses me off!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on April 23, 2021, 11:23:02 AM
Well we have Everton at Goodison soon and they never win there...
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on April 23, 2021, 11:28:53 AM
Quote from: Ketzster on April 23, 2021, 11:08:51 AM
Yes well it was a pretty shocking run in the Championship. People say it will be fine with better players, but it wasn’t when we had better players than other teams in the Championship when Grealish was out. You can ignore that run in the Championship and stuff but just buying better players won’t solve Smiths tactical inflexibility and not knowing what to do if plan A isn’t working. We can’t keep having long spells like this when a player is missing. It’s not just 6 games. 15 in the Championship, more than 10 now etc

Grealish is our best player by a country mile.  Just like he'd be the best player in pretty much any other team in the world.  It's hardly surprising that we struggle when he's out.

Smith brought Barkley in to take some of the pressure off Jack but it's turned out he's crap!  Until we get better players we're always going to struggle without one of the best players in the world.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ketzster on April 23, 2021, 11:43:48 AM
Quote from: Ad@m on April 23, 2021, 11:28:53 AM
Quote from: Ketzster on April 23, 2021, 11:08:51 AM
Yes well it was a pretty shocking run in the Championship. People say it will be fine with better players, but it wasn’t when we had better players than other teams in the Championship when Grealish was out. You can ignore that run in the Championship and stuff but just buying better players won’t solve Smiths tactical inflexibility and not knowing what to do if plan A isn’t working. We can’t keep having long spells like this when a player is missing. It’s not just 6 games. 15 in the Championship, more than 10 now etc

Grealish is our best player by a country mile.  Just like he'd be the best player in pretty much any other team in the world.  It's hardly surprising that we struggle when he's out.

Smith brought Barkley in to take some of the pressure off Jack but it's turned out he's crap!  Until we get better players we're always going to struggle without one of the best players in the world.

My point is though that we had better players than other teams in the Championship, and when Grealish was out Smith still couldn’t find an answer then either until Grealish came back. So I don’t think just having better players will solve the problem under Smith. We need investment in new players obviously, but we also need investment in a better manager
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on April 23, 2021, 11:50:40 AM
The 'shocking' run in the championship is normally considered as being from the draw with the Baggies in December to the Stoke game in late February where we got 14 points in 14 games. No one would argue that we were great in that period but, as many people have said, all teams have runs of bad form but how you perform around them is the key to being able to challenge. If you win 4 in 5 before it and 10 in 10 afterwards like we did then I find it a bit weird that 2 years later people are still using the bad spell as an excuse to slag off the manager.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on April 23, 2021, 11:56:49 AM
I think my biggest problem with Dean, when it comes to these runs of poor form, is that I get the impression he waits for things to improve rather than proactively seeking the answer to arresting the slump. Clearly trying to adjust doesn’t mean you’ll successfully arrest the dip in form, but I feel like we just wait and hope that the players come back into form.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ketzster on April 23, 2021, 12:00:55 PM
Quote from: paul_e on April 23, 2021, 11:50:40 AM
The 'shocking' run in the championship is normally considered as being from the draw with the Baggies in December to the Stoke game in late February where we got 14 points in 14 games. No one would argue that we were great in that period but, as many people have said, all teams have runs of bad form but how you perform around them is the key to being able to challenge. If you win 4 in 5 before it and 10 in 10 afterwards like we did then I find it a bit weird that 2 years later people are still using the bad spell as an excuse to slag off the manager.

The run in the Championship is still relevant because the problems we saw then, are exactly the same as the ones now. If Smith really was learning and changing things, then you’d be correct and the Championship run could no longer be used
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on April 23, 2021, 12:06:39 PM
Quote from: Ketzster on April 23, 2021, 12:00:55 PM
Quote from: paul_e on April 23, 2021, 11:50:40 AM
The 'shocking' run in the championship is normally considered as being from the draw with the Baggies in December to the Stoke game in late February where we got 14 points in 14 games. No one would argue that we were great in that period but, as many people have said, all teams have runs of bad form but how you perform around them is the key to being able to challenge. If you win 4 in 5 before it and 10 in 10 afterwards like we did then I find it a bit weird that 2 years later people are still using the bad spell as an excuse to slag off the manager.

The run in the Championship is still relevant because the problems we saw then, are exactly the same as the ones now. If Smith really was learning and changing things, then you’d be correct and the Championship run could no longer be used

They also show that he is completely and utterly reliant on Jack Grealish. Of course all teams would miss a player as good as he is, but Smith just seems totally bereft of any ideas without him. The main reason this season is that the other attacking support players (ie not Ollie) in Trez/El Ghazi/Traore/Barkley are piss poor, and the central midfielders haven't been playing any better.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on April 23, 2021, 12:24:02 PM
Quote from: Risso on April 23, 2021, 12:06:39 PM
Quote from: Ketzster on April 23, 2021, 12:00:55 PM
Quote from: paul_e on April 23, 2021, 11:50:40 AM
The 'shocking' run in the championship is normally considered as being from the draw with the Baggies in December to the Stoke game in late February where we got 14 points in 14 games. No one would argue that we were great in that period but, as many people have said, all teams have runs of bad form but how you perform around them is the key to being able to challenge. If you win 4 in 5 before it and 10 in 10 afterwards like we did then I find it a bit weird that 2 years later people are still using the bad spell as an excuse to slag off the manager.

The run in the Championship is still relevant because the problems we saw then, are exactly the same as the ones now. If Smith really was learning and changing things, then you’d be correct and the Championship run could no longer be used

They also show that he is completely and utterly reliant on Jack Grealish. Of course all teams would miss a player as good as he is, but Smith just seems totally bereft of any ideas without him. The main reason this season is that the other attacking support players (ie not Ollie) in Trez/El Ghazi/Traore/Barkley are piss poor, and the central midfielders haven't been playing any better.

Surely he's either bereft of ideas or all the other support players are piss poor. If they're as bad as you repeatedly state then what more could Smith do with such a bad squad?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on April 23, 2021, 12:29:10 PM
Quote from: paul_e on April 23, 2021, 12:24:02 PM
Quote from: Risso on April 23, 2021, 12:06:39 PM
Quote from: Ketzster on April 23, 2021, 12:00:55 PM
Quote from: paul_e on April 23, 2021, 11:50:40 AM
The 'shocking' run in the championship is normally considered as being from the draw with the Baggies in December to the Stoke game in late February where we got 14 points in 14 games. No one would argue that we were great in that period but, as many people have said, all teams have runs of bad form but how you perform around them is the key to being able to challenge. If you win 4 in 5 before it and 10 in 10 afterwards like we did then I find it a bit weird that 2 years later people are still using the bad spell as an excuse to slag off the manager.

The run in the Championship is still relevant because the problems we saw then, are exactly the same as the ones now. If Smith really was learning and changing things, then you’d be correct and the Championship run could no longer be used

They also show that he is completely and utterly reliant on Jack Grealish. Of course all teams would miss a player as good as he is, but Smith just seems totally bereft of any ideas without him. The main reason this season is that the other attacking support players (ie not Ollie) in Trez/El Ghazi/Traore/Barkley are piss poor, and the central midfielders haven't been playing any better.

Surely he's either bereft of ideas or all the other support players are piss poor. If they're as bad as you repeatedly state then what more could Smith do with such a bad squad?

Tried different formations andd combinations of players. McGinn is shite as a defensive midfielder, so why not try him in a slightly wider attacking formation. He could have given Davis a go in a 4-4-2 before being forced into it.  Given 3-5-2 a go with Targett and Cash as wing backs. Lots of things.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on April 23, 2021, 12:36:35 PM
How was he 'forced' into playing Davis?  His preferred formation is to have 1 up front but on Tuesday night he brought Davis on at half time alongside Ollie.

He also started McGinn as the most attacking midfielder.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on April 23, 2021, 12:39:25 PM
Quote from: Risso on April 23, 2021, 12:29:10 PM
Tried different formations andd combinations of players. McGinn is shite as a defensive midfielder, so why not try him in a slightly wider attacking formation. He could have given Davis a go in a 4-4-2 before being forced into it.  Given 3-5-2 a go with Targett and Cash as wing backs. Lots of things.

but if the players are piss poor that's surely just shuffling the deckchairs. What you're describing sounds a lot like the inept floundering from Sherwood that setup what was probably our worst season ever in the top flight.

This isn't personal but I just find it funny that, if we're not doing well, whatever the manager is doing is absolutely 100% the wrong thing. Personally I don't think we're all that far away from being decent, we just need a bit of confidence and a bit of luck because right now there's a hint of reluctance in everything we're doing as if the players are expecting the worse and all the little things (slightly under hit passes, taking 1 more touch, giving up on a run too soon) are a result of that. I don't think we can address that by changing the formation or juggling the players around. That said I would like to see us have an extra man staying high up the pitch when we're defending to give us more of a chance of running in behind teams on the counter because I think that might be the best way to earn that bit of luck. Given how Watkins plays (he often comes deeper to press the defensive midfielder) right now we are left without an out ball more often than I'd like.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on April 23, 2021, 12:45:11 PM
Quote from: paul_e on April 23, 2021, 12:39:25 PM
Quote from: Risso on April 23, 2021, 12:29:10 PM
Tried different formations andd combinations of players. McGinn is shite as a defensive midfielder, so why not try him in a slightly wider attacking formation. He could have given Davis a go in a 4-4-2 before being forced into it.  Given 3-5-2 a go with Targett and Cash as wing backs. Lots of things.

but if the players are piss poor that's surely just shuffling the deckchairs. What you're describing sounds a lot like the inept floundering from Sherwood that setup what was probably our worst season ever in the top flight.

This isn't personal but I just find it funny that, if we're not doing well, whatever the manager is doing is absolutely 100% the wrong thing. Personally I don't think we're all that far away from being decent, we just need a bit of confidence and a bit of luck because right now there's a hint of reluctance in everything we're doing as if the players are expecting the worse and all the little things (slightly under hit passes, taking 1 more touch, giving up on a run too soon) are a result of that. I don't think we can address that by changing the formation or juggling the players around. That said I would like to see us have an extra man staying high up the pitch when we're defending to give us more of a chance of running in behind teams on the counter because I think that might be the best way to earn that bit of luck. Given how Watkins plays (he often comes deeper to press the defensive midfielder) right now we are left without an out ball more often than I'd like.

Well, you leave out as many as the piss poor players as possible.

Why not give something like this a go:

                    Martinez
            Konsa Hause Mings
Cash McGinn Luiz Sanson/Ramsey Targett
                    Davis Watkins

Nice and solid in the middle, McGinn has more of a licence to get forward, and Cash and Targett both have the energy levels and class to be great wing backs. And not a shite wide player in Trez/Traore/El Ghazi to be seen.

As it is, it really does look like this season is going to end in a complete tailspin.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on April 23, 2021, 12:46:39 PM
Quote from: Ad@m on April 23, 2021, 11:28:53 AM
Quote from: Ketzster on April 23, 2021, 11:08:51 AM
Yes well it was a pretty shocking run in the Championship. People say it will be fine with better players, but it wasn’t when we had better players than other teams in the Championship when Grealish was out. You can ignore that run in the Championship and stuff but just buying better players won’t solve Smiths tactical inflexibility and not knowing what to do if plan A isn’t working. We can’t keep having long spells like this when a player is missing. It’s not just 6 games. 15 in the Championship, more than 10 now etc

Grealish is our best player by a country mile.  Just like he'd be the best player in pretty much any other team in the world.  It's hardly surprising that we struggle when he's out.

Smith brought Barkley in to take some of the pressure off Jack but it's turned out he's crap!  Until we get better players we're always going to struggle without one of the best players in the world.


We’ve spent two hundred and fucking fifty million pounds on players
And we are still totally reliant on the player that’s been with us since the age of six

That’s not right
That cannot be right it’s not credible it’s pathetic
You can excuse it all Want but surely when you look at it you have to admit that is a sorry state of affairs
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on April 23, 2021, 12:50:12 PM
Quote from: Risso on April 23, 2021, 12:45:11 PM
Quote from: paul_e on April 23, 2021, 12:39:25 PM
Quote from: Risso on April 23, 2021, 12:29:10 PM
Tried different formations andd combinations of players. McGinn is shite as a defensive midfielder, so why not try him in a slightly wider attacking formation. He could have given Davis a go in a 4-4-2 before being forced into it.  Given 3-5-2 a go with Targett and Cash as wing backs. Lots of things.

but if the players are piss poor that's surely just shuffling the deckchairs. What you're describing sounds a lot like the inept floundering from Sherwood that setup what was probably our worst season ever in the top flight.

This isn't personal but I just find it funny that, if we're not doing well, whatever the manager is doing is absolutely 100% the wrong thing. Personally I don't think we're all that far away from being decent, we just need a bit of confidence and a bit of luck because right now there's a hint of reluctance in everything we're doing as if the players are expecting the worse and all the little things (slightly under hit passes, taking 1 more touch, giving up on a run too soon) are a result of that. I don't think we can address that by changing the formation or juggling the players around. That said I would like to see us have an extra man staying high up the pitch when we're defending to give us more of a chance of running in behind teams on the counter because I think that might be the best way to earn that bit of luck. Given how Watkins plays (he often comes deeper to press the defensive midfielder) right now we are left without an out ball more often than I'd like.

Well, you leave out as many as the piss poor players as possible.

Why not give something like this a go:

                    Martinez
            Konsa Hause Mings
Cash McGinn Luiz Sanson/Ramsey Targett
                    Davis Watkins

Nice and solid in the middle, McGinn has more of a licence to get forward, and Cash and Targett both have the energy levels and class to be great wing backs. And not a shite wide player in Trez/Traore/El Ghazi to be seen.

As it is, it really does look like this season is going to end in a complete tailspin.


because we haven't played or trained as a back 3, because most teams play with wide players and attacking full backs which would mean they double up on the wingbacks, both of whom would be playing a role they've never played before. On top of all that adding an extra defender into the team when we've been decent in defence but poor going forward doesn't seem like a great idea. You give a benefit as McGinn being able to get further forward but the formation on Wednesday already did that and led to him scoring in the first 30 seconds of the game.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on April 23, 2021, 12:51:22 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on April 23, 2021, 11:56:49 AM
I think my biggest problem with Dean, when it comes to these runs of poor form, is that I get the impression he waits for things to improve rather than proactively seeking the answer to arresting the slump. Clearly trying to adjust doesn’t mean you’ll successfully arrest the dip in form, but I feel like we just wait and hope that the players come back into form.

I'm getting the same impression. Last season we had the worst or second worst defensive record in the league yet in his own words, it took the COVID break to address the problem. I think most will agree that without that break we'd have been relegated. Dean is the best manager we could hope for on so many levels, I love him but he really needs to learn to think on his feet.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on April 23, 2021, 12:58:56 PM
I actually think we can still finish above Everton. Whoever is their manager they just have serious mentality issues in pushing on from decent positions so mirror us in last 20 years.

Take 4 points off them like we did last season and we'll have a decent chance although they'll probably win tonight with Arsenal having no strikers (we can finish above them aswell if we pull our fingers out).

Our problem remains we just collapse for whatever reason from Feb onwards. When was the last time we finished a season strongly in the top division when we were actually 5th or 6th? 2008?

Didn't happen in 1993, 1999, 2009, 10 or this season so it's been a major club issue for decades now so while clubs we're trying to finish above look pretty fresh in March onwards we usually look out on our feet.

Hopefully we'll get 2-3 in to really improve the first 11 this summer, no point just signing endless players who just make up the numbers on the bench as we already have that.

Dean also must learn how to rotate more in the first half of the season, leaving likes of Grealish or McGinn out of the odd game here and there or subbing them off after 70 minutes in games we're comfortably winning.

Target eventually has to be to peak from March onwards rather than December as happened this season.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on April 23, 2021, 01:07:24 PM
I don't get some of the anger to be honest. Disappointment, yes because it could have gone better but I think overall this season has been a positive one.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on April 23, 2021, 01:10:16 PM
Quote from: paul_e on April 23, 2021, 12:50:12 PM
because we haven't played or trained as a back 3, because most teams play with wide players and attacking full backs which would mean they double up on the wingbacks, both of whom would be playing a role they've never played before. On top of all that adding an extra defender into the team when we've been decent in defence but poor going forward doesn't seem like a great idea. You give a benefit as McGinn being able to get further forward but the formation on Wednesday already did that and led to him scoring in the first 30 seconds of the game.

Well that's all theoretical. What isn't, is that current system isn't working, and hasn't worked for months. And McGinn getting forward for 30 seconds and then not for the remaining 90+ minutes isn't really proof that the current formation allows him to be more advanced, as it doesn't.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Martin Carruthers on April 23, 2021, 01:10:20 PM
Seemed baffling at the time not hooking, say, Jack & Ollie after an hour or so in a few games where we were home and dry.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on April 23, 2021, 01:13:01 PM
Quote from: Martin Carruthers on April 23, 2021, 01:10:20 PM
Seemed baffling at the time not hooking, say, Jack & Ollie after an hour or so in a few games where we were home and dry.

But Smith hadn't seen any players collapse from exhaustion, to be fair.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on April 23, 2021, 01:13:18 PM
Quote from: Clampy on April 23, 2021, 01:07:24 PM
I don't get some of the anger to be honest. Disappointment, yes because it could have gone better but I think overall this season has been a positive one.

Depends how many more points we get. We finish on 46-47 points and we may be down in 13th-14th if likes of Palace beat us in the run in.

17th to 14th really isn't that amazing and I think I predicted 12th in September so would be below my expectations and I suspect a fair few on here and elsewhere.

We simply have to go all in to beat West Brom on Sunday, Palace, 4 points off Everton and then the odd point from the rest and that's 55 points and I reckon top 10 which is certainly good.

That looks a very remote hope though if Jack is only going to come back to play 1-2 games just to get in some match fitness for the euros.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on April 23, 2021, 01:16:12 PM
Hopefully I'm wrong but my prediction is:

Jack won't play again this season
We'll get three more points. Once each from draws against WBA, Palace and one of the Everton games.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on April 23, 2021, 01:19:23 PM
Quote from: Risso on April 23, 2021, 01:16:12 PM
Hopefully I'm wrong but my prediction is:

Jack won't play again this season
We'll get three more points. Once each from draws against WBA, Palace and one of the Everton games.

Probably going to be bottom half then if we don't get more than 47.

Wolves on 41 points and they have Burnley and Brighton at home still to play so could feasibly get to 47 by winning both.

Would be very anti-climatic not to finish above them at least seeing as they've had more injuries and lost Jimenez to season ending injury in November which has impacted on their results massively.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on April 23, 2021, 01:19:41 PM
Quote from: Risso on April 23, 2021, 01:16:12 PM
Hopefully I'm wrong but my prediction is:

Jack won't play again this season
We'll get three more points. Once each from draws against WBA, Palace and one of the Everton games.

Even I think we are better than that even without Grealish
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on April 23, 2021, 01:23:48 PM
Quote from: john e on April 23, 2021, 01:19:41 PM
Quote from: Risso on April 23, 2021, 01:16:12 PM
Hopefully I'm wrong but my prediction is:

Jack won't play again this season
We'll get three more points. Once each from draws against WBA, Palace and one of the Everton games.

Even I think we are better than that even without Grealish

Who do you see us beating?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on April 23, 2021, 01:49:20 PM
We can beat West Brom just like we did Fulham.

Really need to score in first 20 minutes but El ghazi and Traore had some fun v them last time.

It's a big game for Dean I think.

At the moment we just had the air of team who got to 40 points and mentally checked out for the season as the main season objective has been met. Loads of teams have done that in the past.

Not sure though a limp performance and result v local rival who will be relegated in next two weeks can just be dismissed as one of those things though.

Guess with our form and all the s*** about the greed league there's a bit of an apathy now anyway about the season given there's no pre match thread up yet for the game.

I just want us to finish in the top 10. Think it will help us a bit more in attracting a game changer or two in the summer.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: RamboandBruno on April 23, 2021, 01:53:55 PM
Quote from: Clampy on April 23, 2021, 01:07:24 PM
I don't get some of the anger to be honest. Disappointment, yes because it could have gone better but I think overall this season has been a positive one.

I am about where you are. Never known such anger at the prospect of finishing 11th after a decade of either flirting with relegation, being relegated, or being in the championship. Frustration and a bit of disappointment of what could of been yes, but the kind of radical changes some people want seem a bit out of context to the situation.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on April 23, 2021, 01:56:51 PM
Quote from: RamboandBruno on April 23, 2021, 01:53:55 PM
Quote from: Clampy on April 23, 2021, 01:07:24 PM
I don't get some of the anger to be honest. Disappointment, yes because it could have gone better but I think overall this season has been a positive one.

I am about where you are. Never known such anger at the prospect of finishing 11th after a decade of either flirting with relegation, being relegated, or being in the championship. Frustration and a bit of disappointment of what could of been yes, but the kind of radical changes some people want seem a bit out of context to the situation.

Who's angry? I'd like to see us have a better manager next season, but I'm not going to kick the dog if it doesn't happen.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on April 23, 2021, 02:16:57 PM
Quote from: john e on April 23, 2021, 12:46:39 PM
Quote from: Ad@m on April 23, 2021, 11:28:53 AM
Quote from: Ketzster on April 23, 2021, 11:08:51 AM
Yes well it was a pretty shocking run in the Championship. People say it will be fine with better players, but it wasn’t when we had better players than other teams in the Championship when Grealish was out. You can ignore that run in the Championship and stuff but just buying better players won’t solve Smiths tactical inflexibility and not knowing what to do if plan A isn’t working. We can’t keep having long spells like this when a player is missing. It’s not just 6 games. 15 in the Championship, more than 10 now etc

Grealish is our best player by a country mile.  Just like he'd be the best player in pretty much any other team in the world.  It's hardly surprising that we struggle when he's out.

Smith brought Barkley in to take some of the pressure off Jack but it's turned out he's crap!  Until we get better players we're always going to struggle without one of the best players in the world.


We’ve spent two hundred and fucking fifty million pounds on players
And we are still totally reliant on the player that’s been with us since the age of six

That’s not right
That cannot be right it’s not credible it’s pathetic
You can excuse it all Want but surely when you look at it you have to admit that is a sorry state of affairs

The slight issue I have with this is the bold bit, when termed that way, sounds a lot worse than "still totally reliant on one of the best players in Europe". We have lots of, in my opinion, top half/mid table players but right now there's only 3-4 top 4 standard players (Grealish, Konsa, Martinez and maybe Watkins) so losing the one of them that is our main creator has a massive impact.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on April 23, 2021, 02:36:41 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on April 23, 2021, 12:58:56 PM
I actually think we can still finish above Everton. Whoever is their manager they just have serious mentality issues in pushing on from decent positions so mirror us in last 20 years.

Take 4 points off them like we did last season and we'll have a decent chance although they'll probably win tonight with Arsenal having no strikers (we can finish above them aswell if we pull our fingers out).

Our problem remains we just collapse for whatever reason from Feb onwards. When was the last time we finished a season strongly in the top division when we were actually 5th or 6th? 2008?

Didn't happen in 1993, 1999, 2009, 10 or this season so it's been a major club issue for decades now so while clubs we're trying to finish above look pretty fresh in March onwards we usually look out on our feet.

Hopefully we'll get 2-3 in to really improve the first 11 this summer, no point just signing endless players who just make up the numbers on the bench as we already have that.

Dean also must learn how to rotate more in the first half of the season, leaving likes of Grealish or McGinn out of the odd game here and there or subbing them off after 70 minutes in games we're comfortably winning.

Target eventually has to be to peak from March onwards rather than December as happened this season.

2010/11 was a strong finish to the season. We went from struggling against relegation to an unlikely 9th finish, which a decade on remains our highest since and we still argue on here over whether it was a "fluke" or not!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on April 23, 2021, 02:51:36 PM
I think the problem is we've got 1 exceptional player, 5 very good ones in the keeper/defence and Ollie, but everything else between the two isn't working, whether it's the central midfielders or the attacking support players. Nobody out of Luiz, McGinn, Ramsey, Traore, Nakamba, Trez, El Ghazi or Barkley has been remotely at the races for the weeks. Whether they're not good enough or just out of form we all have our individual opinions about I guess.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: SoccerHQ on April 23, 2021, 02:59:40 PM
Quote from: eamonn on April 23, 2021, 02:36:41 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on April 23, 2021, 12:58:56 PM
I actually think we can still finish above Everton. Whoever is their manager they just have serious mentality issues in pushing on from decent positions so mirror us in last 20 years.

Take 4 points off them like we did last season and we'll have a decent chance although they'll probably win tonight with Arsenal having no strikers (we can finish above them aswell if we pull our fingers out).

Our problem remains we just collapse for whatever reason from Feb onwards. When was the last time we finished a season strongly in the top division when we were actually 5th or 6th? 2008?

Didn't happen in 1993, 1999, 2009, 10 or this season so it's been a major club issue for decades now so while clubs we're trying to finish above look pretty fresh in March onwards we usually look out on our feet.

Hopefully we'll get 2-3 in to really improve the first 11 this summer, no point just signing endless players who just make up the numbers on the bench as we already have that.

Dean also must learn how to rotate more in the first half of the season, leaving likes of Grealish or McGinn out of the odd game here and there or subbing them off after 70 minutes in games we're comfortably winning.

Target eventually has to be to peak from March onwards rather than December as happened this season.

2010/11 was a strong finish to the season. We went from struggling against relegation to an unlikely 9th finish, which a decade on remains our highest since and we still argue on here over whether it was a "fluke" or not!

Nah I meant when we were firmly established in top half and then won 4 out of 5 or something in April/May. In 10/11 it was still actually possible we were going to get relegated with two games left then we randomly beat Arsenal and Liverpool, some other results went for us and we finished 9th.

We had that amazing run when Gregory just came in when we were just above the relegation zone and O'Leary did similar in his first season.

Just checked back and we actually won 4/5 in April 2010 when we finished 6th but we lost so much ground in the Feb and March of that season with average results.

Would be nice to just have a season where we keep pushing on and overachieve. Leicester weren't content with just finishing 6th in 15/16 and West Ham would've probably been happy with 8-9th two months ago but kept on winning and now have a great chance of top 4.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on April 23, 2021, 03:07:22 PM
Quote from: Risso on April 23, 2021, 01:23:48 PM
Quote from: john e on April 23, 2021, 01:19:41 PM
Quote from: Risso on April 23, 2021, 01:16:12 PM
Hopefully I'm wrong but my prediction is:

Jack won't play again this season
We'll get three more points. Once each from draws against WBA, Palace and one of the Everton games.

Even I think we are better than that even without Grealish

Who do you see us beating?

Well WBA and Palace for a start
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on April 23, 2021, 03:10:51 PM
Quote from: paul_e on April 23, 2021, 02:16:57 PM
Quote from: john e on April 23, 2021, 12:46:39 PM
Quote from: Ad@m on April 23, 2021, 11:28:53 AM
Quote from: Ketzster on April 23, 2021, 11:08:51 AM
Yes well it was a pretty shocking run in the Championship. People say it will be fine with better players, but it wasn’t when we had better players than other teams in the Championship when Grealish was out. You can ignore that run in the Championship and stuff but just buying better players won’t solve Smiths tactical inflexibility and not knowing what to do if plan A isn’t working. We can’t keep having long spells like this when a player is missing. It’s not just 6 games. 15 in the Championship, more than 10 now etc

Grealish is our best player by a country mile.  Just like he'd be the best player in pretty much any other team in the world.  It's hardly surprising that we struggle when he's out.

Smith brought Barkley in to take some of the pressure off Jack but it's turned out he's crap!  Until we get better players we're always going to struggle without one of the best players in the world.


We’ve spent two hundred and fucking fifty million pounds on players
And we are still totally reliant on the player that’s been with us since the age of six

That’s not right
That cannot be right it’s not credible it’s pathetic
You can excuse it all Want but surely when you look at it you have to admit that is a sorry state of affairs

The slight issue I have with this is the bold bit, when termed that way, sounds a lot worse than "still totally reliant on one of the best players in Europe". We have lots of, in my opinion, top half/mid table players but right now there's only 3-4 top 4 standard players (Grealish, Konsa, Martinez and maybe Watkins) so losing the one of them that is our main creator has a massive impact.

True, i agree
That’s the problem the finger points at Smith again
As our team should be better than a relegation Threatened side even when we lose the best player

People can’t have it both ways either the players aren’t good enough or the manager isn’t when we play without Grealish

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Chris Smith on April 23, 2021, 03:13:16 PM
We’ve improved each season under Smith. How many times have we been able to say that in recent years? If he keeps that up then he’ll deservedly keep his job.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on April 23, 2021, 03:16:53 PM
Quote from: Risso on April 23, 2021, 02:51:36 PM
I think the problem is we've got 1 exceptional player, 5 very good ones in the keeper/defence and Ollie, but everything else between the two isn't working, whether it's the central midfielders or the attacking support players. Nobody out of Luiz, McGinn, Ramsey, Traore, Nakamba, Trez, El Ghazi or Barkley has been remotely at the races for the weeks. Whether they're not good enough or just out of form we all have our individual opinions about I guess.

Luiz - short of form
McGinn - short of form
Ramsey - talented prospect but still very raw
Traore - talented but inconsistent, short of form
Nakamba - not good enough
Trez - we'll see after the injury
AEG - not mentally strong enough
Barkley - not motivated or fit

First 4 all have a place with us for the next few years, last 4 could all go for me (but I'd worry we might be making a mistake with Trez).

Add Sanson, Grealish and 2-3 well chosen new signings (DM, winger/striker and maybe an AM) and I think that's a pretty strong midfield and attack if we can get them playing to their ability.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 23, 2021, 04:02:01 PM
Why do we have so many players short of form?
Who is responsible for getting the most out of the squad?

Or are we saying that without Grealish we have a relegation level team and none of this is the fault of the manager?

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on April 23, 2021, 04:15:19 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on April 23, 2021, 04:02:01 PM
Why do we have so many players short of form?
Who is responsible for getting the most out of the squad?

Or are we saying that without Grealish we have a relegation level team and none of this is the fault of the manager?

Interchange form with confidence and it's pretty obvious, results have dropped and seen us fall away from a potential challenge for the top 4/6 and as a result the confidence and form has dipped across the squad. I just think we need to find a bit of confidence going forward (and I think in reflection McGinns goal might help with that).

From his press conference today Smith was asked about the impact of the covid break and potential long-covid and his reply was that there's no evidence of fitness troubles from it but the forced break did hurt our momentum. He also said that the form of players like Bert, AEG and Ross all dropping off at the same time that Jack got injured is why we're struggling going forward. He did say though that almost any team would obviously miss a player of the level Jack is.

What was also interesting is that the journalists that mentioned Man City seemed to be talking about a good performance but a poor result and Smith mentioned that other than the 2 avoidable goals Martinez didn't have much to do and they didn't create many shots but that we need to be more competitive in attack.

I can't disagree with any of that, when I was talking about the covid break a few days ago I never once said it was a fitness thing or used the virus as an excuse i was just pointing out that something in the team changed during that break and we've not been able to turn it around.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: brontebilly on April 23, 2021, 04:18:57 PM
Quote from: Clampy on April 23, 2021, 01:07:24 PM
I don't get some of the anger to be honest. Disappointment, yes because it could have gone better but I think overall this season has been a positive one.

It's the way it's petering out is the problem. We were all quite optimistic earlier in the season (results and performances were very good) and I'm sure prospective transfer targets were too. Maybe it helped convince the likes of Sanson in Jan.

But it's crashed very badly since and the style of football is rancid. Yes Grealish's injury is a big problem and there may be other mitigating circumstances (Barkley turning out to be worse than useless, Sanson not settling yet etc) but Smith should be finding some kind of way without Jack. We give the impression we aren't able to put four passes together without Grealish on the pitch.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: caster troy on April 23, 2021, 04:19:06 PM
It probably doesn't help that it wasn't clear initially Grealish would be out this long. If we'd know it was long term maybe everyone would have pulled together and found a new system, raised their game etc but instead it's been a weak mentality of 'it's ok Jack will be back next week' which has then dragged on for months.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on April 23, 2021, 04:29:09 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on April 23, 2021, 04:02:01 PM
Why do we have so many players short of form?
Who is responsible for getting the most out of the squad?

Or are we saying that without Grealish we have a relegation level team and none of this is the fault of the manager?

I don't think we do have a relegation level team without Jack.  We're all bemoaning the results since he's been out, but despite this, and the fact the rest of the midfield has gone off the boil, we'd be 16th.  So flirting with relegation, but better than 4 other teams.

If you then look at it over a season, when you'd expect some of those players to pick up a bit on form we've probably got a lower mid-table side without Jack.  Which makes total sense to me given last year we had an almost-relegated side with Jack.

We're progressing year on year.  But in a world where the top 4-6 have probably spent a billion pounds each over the last decade getting to where they are, we weren't going to turn a team that got promoted through the playoffs in to one which gets in to Europe by spending just over £100m.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Smithy on April 23, 2021, 04:48:22 PM
Quote from: Chris Smith on April 23, 2021, 03:13:16 PM
We’ve improved each season under Smith. How many times have we been able to say that in recent years? If he keeps that up then he’ll deservedly keep his job.

I think this is where I am, too.  The second half of the season has been hugely disappointing, yes, and the team isn't performing very well right now, but when you take a step back and look at overall improvement, season on season, Smith more than deserves another crack next year.

I think if we're hovering in mid-table, and not performing much better than currently by Xmas, then he'll be under pressure.  But if Jack is fit and playing, and we acquire a couple of quality first-11 players, then I genuinely expect us to push on again next season and to be in the mix for European places. 

I sometimes think we forget the way we've bought players over the last couple of years, after a decade or more of buying players around their peak who were only going to get worse. In those days we'd see a player play half a dozen times and know with a fair degree of confidence that that's as good as we're going to get from them. 

That's not the case with most of our players now.  We've got one of the youngest sides in the league, these are players who will improve and are improving.  Yes, we've also seen enough to say some of them won't be good enough for us long term, but there IS improvement to be seen just in the squad we already have.  Add some more quality in the summer and we can take another step forward next season.

I think Smith deserves to keep taking us forward, until such time as he isn't.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on April 23, 2021, 04:50:10 PM
Quote from: Chris Smith on April 23, 2021, 03:13:16 PM
We’ve improved each season under Smith. How many times have we been able to say that in recent years? If he keeps that up then he’ll deservedly keep his job.

That's why there is literally no chance of him being fired.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on April 23, 2021, 04:58:22 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on April 23, 2021, 04:50:10 PM
Quote from: Chris Smith on April 23, 2021, 03:13:16 PM
We’ve improved each season under Smith. How many times have we been able to say that in recent years? If he keeps that up then he’ll deservedly keep his job.

That's why there is literally no chance of him being fired.

It's why I'm willing to cut him some slack, almost everyone on here (90%) polled for us to finish mid-table or bottom half in a thread called 'realistic expectations' and even the worst case outcome from here will see us around the middle of that range. I get that the very good early season form had people hoping for more but none of us seriously thought that was realistic in the summer.

Next season we need to be top half and challenging for Europe so the pressure will be on for spells like this to be much shorter and handled better but this year we all expected inconsistency, just not so clearly dividing the season into 2 halves.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: chrisw1 on April 23, 2021, 05:20:50 PM
I still like Smith and would keep him. 

But we're not the only team with injuries and our form since Christmas isn't really acceptable.  If we don't pick up some results before the end of the season then he may be under a bit more pressure in the summer than people think, and as that would then be half a season of relegation form it would be difficult to argue that he shouldn't be.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Meanwood Villa on April 23, 2021, 06:20:05 PM
He's delivered what was expected of him every season. If Europe is the aim next season he's earned the right to have a crack. I think he'll get the whole of next season barring a relegation scrap (which hopefully won't happen)
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on April 23, 2021, 06:25:59 PM
He does indeed deserve the chance to be here next season as there is undeniable progress under Dean Smith.  However, he also needs to improve the quality of our play and should not be bullet proof.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: RamboandBruno on April 23, 2021, 06:44:48 PM
Quote from: paul_e on April 23, 2021, 04:58:22 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on April 23, 2021, 04:50:10 PM
Quote from: Chris Smith on April 23, 2021, 03:13:16 PM
We’ve improved each season under Smith. How many times have we been able to say that in recent years? If he keeps that up then he’ll deservedly keep his job.

That's why there is literally no chance of him being fired.

It's why I'm willing to cut him some slack, almost everyone on here (90%) polled for us to finish mid-table or bottom half in a thread called 'realistic expectations' and even the worst case outcome from here will see us around the middle of that range. I get that the very good early season form had people hoping for more but none of us seriously thought that was realistic in the summer.

Next season we need to be top half and challenging for Europe so the pressure will be on for spells like this to be much shorter and handled better but this year we all expected inconsistency, just not so clearly dividing the season into 2 halves.

Agree with this. But do also think another shoddy showing against the baggies and a defeat, really isn’t helping his cause. Pressure will be on as well, as after last nights result, it does feel win or bust for them.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: WarszaVillan on April 23, 2021, 07:01:15 PM
It should be recognised that Leicester's win over West Brom yesterday means we mathematically can't be relegated. A sign of real progress surely.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on April 23, 2021, 07:33:29 PM
Quote from: paul_e on April 23, 2021, 04:15:19 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on April 23, 2021, 04:02:01 PM
Why do we have so many players short of form?
Who is responsible for getting the most out of the squad?

Or are we saying that without Grealish we have a relegation level team and none of this is the fault of the manager?

Interchange form with confidence and it's pretty obvious, results have dropped and seen us fall away from a potential challenge for the top 4/6 and as a result the confidence and form has dipped across the squad. I just think we need to find a bit of confidence going forward (and I think in reflection McGinns goal might help with that).

The worrying thing for me is the massive drop in our performances probably since the undeserved defeat at Old Trafford. We've picked up points and enjoyed a few smash & grabs but we've never managed to put in another decent performance like we were delivering up until the new year.

Right now Dean deserves to have next season but now is not the time to make that judgement. We've still a few games to play and hopefully we'll see a return to form and put to bed the idea of replacing him. We've seen what this side is capable of, now would be a great time to remind us all.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on April 23, 2021, 07:33:41 PM
Quote from: WarszaVillan82 on April 23, 2021, 07:01:15 PM
It should be recognised that Leicester's win over West Brom yesterday means we mathematically can't be relegated. A sign of real progress surely.

Without looking, guess how many Premier League games we've played in the last ten years where you could say that?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 23, 2021, 07:34:07 PM
Quote from: Ad@m on April 23, 2021, 04:29:09 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on April 23, 2021, 04:02:01 PM
Why do we have so many players short of form?
Who is responsible for getting the most out of the squad?

Or are we saying that without Grealish we have a relegation level team and none of this is the fault of the manager?

I don't think we do have a relegation level team without Jack.  We're all bemoaning the results since he's been out, but despite this, and the fact the rest of the midfield has gone off the boil, we'd be 16th.  So flirting with relegation, but better than 4 other teams.

So flirting with relegation is not a relegation level team?

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nelly on April 23, 2021, 07:36:43 PM
I'm really loathe to change manager. Even the talk of it stings me. I'm for stability and hopefully gradual, incremental progress. Steadily building the squad and an overall upward improvement. For me even talk of Europe is premature. This is our second season back. Lets try and get properly established. When we got promoted, many said we were promoted too soon, our squad could barely cope with the Premier League. I imagine we are well ahead of the plan.

In my opinion we're allowed to have a poor run, because 1) that's football, we're not Man City where we win every single game or look incredible in every single game and 2) changing managers isn't a guarantee of anything. If anything, from our relegation season it worries me more than anything else.

Villa are a big club and that brings expectations and demands, I fully get that, but I wonder if we need to think about the fan culture at Villa. I wonder if there had been crowds at games if some would have been booing by now. We've been hammered by mediocrity for about two decades, so I think all some of us know is to sack the manager.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: WarszaVillan on April 23, 2021, 07:39:13 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on April 23, 2021, 07:33:41 PM
Quote from: WarszaVillan82 on April 23, 2021, 07:01:15 PM
It should be recognised that Leicester's win over West Brom yesterday means we mathematically can't be relegated. A sign of real progress surely.

Without looking, guess how many Premier League games we've played in the last ten years where you could say that?

11
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 23, 2021, 07:41:08 PM
Quote from: paul_e on April 23, 2021, 04:15:19 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on April 23, 2021, 04:02:01 PM
Why do we have so many players short of form?
Who is responsible for getting the most out of the squad?

Or are we saying that without Grealish we have a relegation level team and none of this is the fault of the manager?

Interchange form with confidence and it's pretty obvious, results have dropped and seen us fall away from a potential challenge for the top 4/6 and as a result the confidence and form has dipped across the squad. I just think we need to find a bit of confidence going forward (and I think in reflection McGinns goal might help with that).

From his press conference today Smith was asked about the impact of the covid break and potential long-covid and his reply was that there's no evidence of fitness troubles from it but the forced break did hurt our momentum. He also said that the form of players like Bert, AEG and Ross all dropping off at the same time that Jack got injured is why we're struggling going forward. He did say though that almost any team would obviously miss a player of the level Jack is.

What was also interesting is that the journalists that mentioned Man City seemed to be talking about a good performance but a poor result and Smith mentioned that other than the 2 avoidable goals Martinez didn't have much to do and they didn't create many shots but that we need to be more competitive in attack.

I can't disagree with any of that, when I was talking about the covid break a few days ago I never once said it was a fitness thing or used the virus as an excuse i was just pointing out that something in the team changed during that break and we've not been able to turn it around.
so you are unable to answer the questions.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on April 23, 2021, 07:43:40 PM
Quote from: WarszaVillan82 on April 23, 2021, 07:39:13 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on April 23, 2021, 07:33:41 PM
Quote from: WarszaVillan82 on April 23, 2021, 07:01:15 PM
It should be recognised that Leicester's win over West Brom yesterday means we mathematically can't be relegated. A sign of real progress surely.

Without looking, guess how many Premier League games we've played in the last ten years where you could say that?

11

Nowhere near.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on April 23, 2021, 07:47:01 PM
Quote from: Nelly on April 23, 2021, 07:36:43 PM
Villa are a big club and that brings expectations and demands, I fully get that, but I wonder if we need to think about the fan culture at Villa. I wonder if there had been crowds at games if some would have been booing by now. We've been hammered by mediocrity for about two decades, so I think all some of us know is to sack the manager.

Our downfall has being too sentimental, patient and allowing our expectations to be constantly lowered. Giving the manager 'one more window' soon turns into 'who better could we get' and before you know it you end up with Steve Bruce, dodgy owners and without a pot to piss in.

Let me put it another way; there's a big pile of shit in the room, some can smell it before entering the room. Others need to both see it and smell it. Some need to even touch it to support their sense of smell and sight. A few strange ones want to taste it before they will admit what it is and there's a very small group that claim to like the taste and see no problem with it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on April 23, 2021, 08:05:56 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on April 23, 2021, 07:47:01 PM
Quote from: Nelly on April 23, 2021, 07:36:43 PM
Villa are a big club and that brings expectations and demands, I fully get that, but I wonder if we need to think about the fan culture at Villa. I wonder if there had been crowds at games if some would have been booing by now. We've been hammered by mediocrity for about two decades, so I think all some of us know is to sack the manager.

Our downfall has being too sentimental, patient and allowing our expectations to be constantly lowered. Giving the manager 'one more window' soon turns into 'who better could we get' and before you know it you end up with Steve Bruce, dodgy owners and without a pot to piss in.

Let me put it another way; there's a big pile of shit in the room, some can smell it before entering the room. Others need to both see it and smell it. Some need to even touch it to support their sense of smell and sight. A few strange ones want to taste it before they will admit what it is and there's a very small group that claim to like the taste and see no problem with it.

If being 11th in the table is a big pile of shit, then I'm glad I don't sit next to you at matches. Good god, that second paragraph was just way over the top utter nonsense. Being angry at being 11th really does make me.wonder why some fans bother. They can't get much enjoyment out of it.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Toronto Villa on April 23, 2021, 08:11:54 PM
Quote from: RamboandBruno on April 23, 2021, 06:44:48 PM
Quote from: paul_e on April 23, 2021, 04:58:22 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on April 23, 2021, 04:50:10 PM
Quote from: Chris Smith on April 23, 2021, 03:13:16 PM
We’ve improved each season under Smith. How many times have we been able to say that in recent years? If he keeps that up then he’ll deservedly keep his job.

That's why there is literally no chance of him being fired.

It's why I'm willing to cut him some slack, almost everyone on here (90%) polled for us to finish mid-table or bottom half in a thread called 'realistic expectations' and even the worst case outcome from here will see us around the middle of that range. I get that the very good early season form had people hoping for more but none of us seriously thought that was realistic in the summer.

Next season we need to be top half and challenging for Europe so the pressure will be on for spells like this to be much shorter and handled better but this year we all expected inconsistency, just not so clearly dividing the season into 2 halves.

Agree with this. But do also think another shoddy showing against the baggies and a defeat, really isn’t helping his cause. Pressure will be on as well, as after last nights result, it does feel win or bust for them.

No, it's been really poor for a good while now. While there has been improvement year over year which has bought him well deserved time the drop off from our levels up to Christmas has been dreadful. And that included when Jack was playing.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on April 23, 2021, 08:17:03 PM
Quote from: Clampy on April 23, 2021, 08:05:56 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on April 23, 2021, 07:47:01 PM
Quote from: Nelly on April 23, 2021, 07:36:43 PM
Villa are a big club and that brings expectations and demands, I fully get that, but I wonder if we need to think about the fan culture at Villa. I wonder if there had been crowds at games if some would have been booing by now. We've been hammered by mediocrity for about two decades, so I think all some of us know is to sack the manager.

Our downfall has being too sentimental, patient and allowing our expectations to be constantly lowered. Giving the manager 'one more window' soon turns into 'who better could we get' and before you know it you end up with Steve Bruce, dodgy owners and without a pot to piss in.

Let me put it another way; there's a big pile of shit in the room, some can smell it before entering the room. Others need to both see it and smell it. Some need to even touch it to support their sense of smell and sight. A few strange ones want to taste it before they will admit what it is and there's a very small group that claim to like the taste and see no problem with it.

If being 11th in the table is a big pile of shit, then I'm glad I don't sit next to you at matches. Good god, that second paragraph was just way over the top utter nonsense. Being angry at being 11th really does make me.wonder why some fans bother. They can't get much enjoyment out of it.

What are you talking about? Where have I said 11th is shit and I'm certainly not angry. Reading posts before responding would be my recommendation.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Risso on April 23, 2021, 08:18:21 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on April 23, 2021, 08:17:03 PM

What are you talking about? Where have I said 11th is shit and I'm certainly not angry. Reading posts before responding would be my recommendation.

And deprive him of the chance to be a better fan than everybody else for the millionth time?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on April 23, 2021, 08:22:06 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on April 23, 2021, 07:41:08 PM
Quote from: paul_e on April 23, 2021, 04:15:19 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on April 23, 2021, 04:02:01 PM
Why do we have so many players short of form?
Who is responsible for getting the most out of the squad?

Or are we saying that without Grealish we have a relegation level team and none of this is the fault of the manager?

Interchange form with confidence and it's pretty obvious, results have dropped and seen us fall away from a potential challenge for the top 4/6 and as a result the confidence and form has dipped across the squad. I just think we need to find a bit of confidence going forward (and I think in reflection McGinns goal might help with that).

From his press conference today Smith was asked about the impact of the covid break and potential long-covid and his reply was that there's no evidence of fitness troubles from it but the forced break did hurt our momentum. He also said that the form of players like Bert, AEG and Ross all dropping off at the same time that Jack got injured is why we're struggling going forward. He did say though that almost any team would obviously miss a player of the level Jack is.

What was also interesting is that the journalists that mentioned Man City seemed to be talking about a good performance but a poor result and Smith mentioned that other than the 2 avoidable goals Martinez didn't have much to do and they didn't create many shots but that we need to be more competitive in attack.

I can't disagree with any of that, when I was talking about the covid break a few days ago I never once said it was a fitness thing or used the virus as an excuse i was just pointing out that something in the team changed during that break and we've not been able to turn it around.
so you are unable to answer the questions.

No, I'm unable to give you an answer you'll accept, not the same thing at all.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on April 23, 2021, 08:22:29 PM
Quote from: Risso on April 23, 2021, 08:18:21 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on April 23, 2021, 08:17:03 PM

What are you talking about? Where have I said 11th is shit and I'm certainly not angry. Reading posts before responding would be my recommendation.

And deprive him of the chance to be a better fan than everybody else for the millionth time?

Well, you were second to bite. Can't say I'm surprised.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on April 23, 2021, 08:38:49 PM
Quote from: Clampy on April 23, 2021, 01:07:24 PM
I don't get some of the anger to be honest. Disappointment, yes because it could have gone better but I think overall this season has been a positive one.

In the same way that the usage of the word 'shocking' a few pages back was over the top, so is 'anger' in this context.

People are disappointed and want us to do better. That's understandable, we all like nice football and points on the board.

'Anger' though? Really?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Clampy on April 23, 2021, 08:42:48 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on April 23, 2021, 08:38:49 PM
Quote from: Clampy on April 23, 2021, 01:07:24 PM
I don't get some of the anger to be honest. Disappointment, yes because it could have gone better but I think overall this season has been a positive one.

In the same way that the usage of the word 'shocking' a few pages back was over the top, so is 'anger' in this context.

People are disappointed and want us to do better. That's understandable, we all like nice football and points on the board.

'Anger' though? Really?

I think in some people there is, especially when it's on a daily basis several times a day and in some cases, way over the top.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ad@m on April 23, 2021, 08:49:26 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on April 23, 2021, 07:34:07 PM
Quote from: Ad@m on April 23, 2021, 04:29:09 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on April 23, 2021, 04:02:01 PM
Why do we have so many players short of form?
Who is responsible for getting the most out of the squad?

Or are we saying that without Grealish we have a relegation level team and none of this is the fault of the manager?

I don't think we do have a relegation level team without Jack.  We're all bemoaning the results since he's been out, but despite this, and the fact the rest of the midfield has gone off the boil, we'd be 16th.  So flirting with relegation, but better than 4 other teams.

So flirting with relegation is not a relegation level team?

Well, no.  On the basis no one's been relegated for finishing 16th as far as I can remember.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 23, 2021, 08:50:58 PM
Quote from: paul_e on April 23, 2021, 08:22:06 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on April 23, 2021, 07:41:08 PM
Quote from: paul_e on April 23, 2021, 04:15:19 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on April 23, 2021, 04:02:01 PM
Why do we have so many players short of form?
Who is responsible for getting the most out of the squad?

Or are we saying that without Grealish we have a relegation level team and none of this is the fault of the manager?

Interchange form with confidence and it's pretty obvious, results have dropped and seen us fall away from a potential challenge for the top 4/6 and as a result the confidence and form has dipped across the squad. I just think we need to find a bit of confidence going forward (and I think in reflection McGinns goal might help with that).

From his press conference today Smith was asked about the impact of the covid break and potential long-covid and his reply was that there's no evidence of fitness troubles from it but the forced break did hurt our momentum. He also said that the form of players like Bert, AEG and Ross all dropping off at the same time that Jack got injured is why we're struggling going forward. He did say though that almost any team would obviously miss a player of the level Jack is.

What was also interesting is that the journalists that mentioned Man City seemed to be talking about a good performance but a poor result and Smith mentioned that other than the 2 avoidable goals Martinez didn't have much to do and they didn't create many shots but that we need to be more competitive in attack.

I can't disagree with any of that, when I was talking about the covid break a few days ago I never once said it was a fitness thing or used the virus as an excuse i was just pointing out that something in the team changed during that break and we've not been able to turn it around.
so you are unable to answer the questions.

No, I'm unable to give you an answer you'll accept, not the same thing at all.
No you just waffled on for a few paragraphs not addressing the question.
You know, the thing that  politicians do which infuriates the rest of us.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 23, 2021, 08:52:28 PM
Quote from: Ad@m on April 23, 2021, 08:49:26 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on April 23, 2021, 07:34:07 PM
Quote from: Ad@m on April 23, 2021, 04:29:09 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on April 23, 2021, 04:02:01 PM
Why do we have so many players short of form?
Who is responsible for getting the most out of the squad?

Or are we saying that without Grealish we have a relegation level team and none of this is the fault of the manager?

I don't think we do have a relegation level team without Jack.  We're all bemoaning the results since he's been out, but despite this, and the fact the rest of the midfield has gone off the boil, we'd be 16th.  So flirting with relegation, but better than 4 other teams.

So flirting with relegation is not a relegation level team?

Well, no.  On the basis no one's been relegated for finishing 16th as far as I can remember.
oh dear,
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: paul_e on April 23, 2021, 08:57:32 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on April 23, 2021, 08:50:58 PM
No you just waffled on for a few paragraphs not addressing the question.
You know, the thing that  politicians do which infuriates the rest of us.
Quote from: paul_e on April 23, 2021, 08:22:06 PM
Interchange form with confidence and it's pretty obvious, results have dropped and seen us fall away from a potential challenge for the top 4/6 and as a result the confidence and form has dipped across the squad. I just think we need to find a bit of confidence going forward (and I think in reflection McGinns goal might help with that).

For people with the atttention span of a goldfish:

poor confidence = poor form
loss of momentum + poor results = loss of confidence
losing best player for months = loss of confidence

There's your answer but you won't accept it because it doesn't give you a chance to bitch and moan like a toddler.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Steve67 on April 23, 2021, 09:04:46 PM
Well, this is a happy place!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Meanwood Villa on April 23, 2021, 09:07:03 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on April 23, 2021, 07:43:40 PM
Quote from: WarszaVillan82 on April 23, 2021, 07:39:13 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on April 23, 2021, 07:33:41 PM
Quote from: WarszaVillan82 on April 23, 2021, 07:01:15 PM
It should be recognised that Leicester's win over West Brom yesterday means we mathematically can't be relegated. A sign of real progress surely.

Without looking, guess how many Premier League games we've played in the last ten years where you could say that?

11

Nowhere near.

5
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Sexual Ealing on April 23, 2021, 09:07:17 PM
Quote from: brontebilly on April 23, 2021, 04:18:57 PM
Quote from: Clampy on April 23, 2021, 01:07:24 PM
I don't get some of the anger to be honest. Disappointment, yes because it could have gone better but I think overall this season has been a positive one.

We were all quite optimistic earlier in the season (results and performances were very good)

Bronte, I have no beef with you, and I enjoy a lot of your posts, but I enjoy them in the same way I enjoy Leonard Cohen records. The idea of you being optimistic is a stretch far enough to break reality!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: BC Villain on April 23, 2021, 09:27:10 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on April 23, 2021, 07:47:01 PM
Quote from: Nelly on April 23, 2021, 07:36:43 PM
Villa are a big club and that brings expectations and demands, I fully get that, but I wonder if we need to think about the fan culture at Villa. I wonder if there had been crowds at games if some would have been booing by now. We've been hammered by mediocrity for about two decades, so I think all some of us know is to sack the manager.

Our downfall has being too sentimental, patient and allowing our expectations to be constantly lowered. Giving the manager 'one more window' soon turns into 'who better could we get' and before you know it you end up with Steve Bruce, dodgy owners and without a pot to piss in.

Let me put it another way; there's a big pile of shit in the room, some can smell it before entering the room. Others need to both see it and smell it. Some need to even touch it to support their sense of smell and sight. A few strange ones want to taste it before they will admit what it is and there's a very small group that claim to like the taste and see no problem with it.

Loved reading that while about to tuck into my evening meal....
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on April 23, 2021, 09:44:16 PM
Bom apetite!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: john e on April 23, 2021, 10:24:19 PM
We are currently in 11th place with 44 points
It wouldn’t be beyond the realms of reality that if Grealish had not got injured we could have picked up another half a dozen points in the last nine games,
Maybe more but let’s play cautiously

That would have put us on 50 points
Five points behind Champions League and possibly three points behind the Europa spot
We would have been calling Dean Smith a magician
He’s not a magician he’s just a decent manager

Grealish is the magician
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on April 23, 2021, 10:25:35 PM
Quote from: Meanwood Villa on April 23, 2021, 09:07:03 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on April 23, 2021, 07:43:40 PM
Quote from: WarszaVillan82 on April 23, 2021, 07:39:13 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on April 23, 2021, 07:33:41 PM
Quote from: WarszaVillan82 on April 23, 2021, 07:01:15 PM
It should be recognised that Leicester's win over West Brom yesterday means we mathematically can't be relegated. A sign of real progress surely.

Without looking, guess how many Premier League games we've played in the last ten years where you could say that?

11

Nowhere near.

5

Indeed. Which puts this season into a bit of context.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Nev on April 23, 2021, 10:28:02 PM
It's often been said that our little world isn't quite representative of the wider view and it's never more stark than now.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Monty on April 23, 2021, 10:28:38 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on April 23, 2021, 10:25:35 PM
Quote from: Meanwood Villa on April 23, 2021, 09:07:03 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on April 23, 2021, 07:43:40 PM
Quote from: WarszaVillan82 on April 23, 2021, 07:39:13 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on April 23, 2021, 07:33:41 PM
Quote from: WarszaVillan82 on April 23, 2021, 07:01:15 PM
It should be recognised that Leicester's win over West Brom yesterday means we mathematically can't be relegated. A sign of real progress surely.

Without looking, guess how many Premier League games we've played in the last ten years where you could say that?

11

Nowhere near.

5

Indeed. Which puts this season into a bit of context.

Christ, is that true? Jesus, what a horrific decade in our history. Eaten by the locust.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Meanwood Villa on April 23, 2021, 10:37:34 PM
We've petered out but where we are is what everyone was hoping for at the start of the season. Zero relegation worries.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on April 23, 2021, 10:49:27 PM
Quote from: Monty on April 23, 2021, 10:28:38 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on April 23, 2021, 10:25:35 PM
Quote from: Meanwood Villa on April 23, 2021, 09:07:03 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on April 23, 2021, 07:43:40 PM
Quote from: WarszaVillan82 on April 23, 2021, 07:39:13 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on April 23, 2021, 07:33:41 PM
Quote from: WarszaVillan82 on April 23, 2021, 07:01:15 PM
It should be recognised that Leicester's win over West Brom yesterday means we mathematically can't be relegated. A sign of real progress surely.

Without looking, guess how many Premier League games we've played in the last ten years where you could say that?

11

Nowhere near.

5

Indeed. Which puts this season into a bit of context.

Christ, is that true? Jesus, what a horrific decade in our history. Eaten by the locust.

One in 2011, one in 2013, two in 2014, one in 2015. 2012 & 2020 it was down to the last match and 2016 we went down.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Ian. on April 23, 2021, 10:55:36 PM
We’re on the long road to recovery, with a few bumps in the road and no quick fixes while we build for the future.

Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: Drummond on April 23, 2021, 11:16:53 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on April 23, 2021, 10:49:27 PM
Quote from: Monty on April 23, 2021, 10:28:38 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on April 23, 2021, 10:25:35 PM
Quote from: Meanwood Villa on April 23, 2021, 09:07:03 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on April 23, 2021, 07:43:40 PM
Quote from: WarszaVillan82 on April 23, 2021, 07:39:13 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on April 23, 2021, 07:33:41 PM
Quote from: WarszaVillan82 on April 23, 2021, 07:01:15 PM
It should be recognised that Leicester's win over West Brom yesterday means we mathematically can't be relegated. A sign of real progress surely.

Without looking, guess how many Premier League games we've played in the last ten years where you could say that?

11

Nowhere near.

5

Indeed. Which puts this season into a bit of context.

Christ, is that true? Jesus, what a horrific decade in our history. Eaten by the locust.

One in 2011, one in 2013, two in 2014, one in 2015. 2012 & 2020 it was down to the last match and 2016 we went down.

That is absolutely awful. Worse than I thought and highlights that in this season we'll play more games in that position than in the last 10 combined. Luxury!
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: AndyB6 on April 24, 2021, 12:44:24 AM
2010-11 we finished 9th on 48 points. Blues finished 18th on 39. We must have been safe with more than one game left? I remember us beating Liverpool and Arsenal in our last two matches and West Ham away before those games that pretty much made us 'safe' if not mathematically.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave.woodhall on April 24, 2021, 12:50:02 AM
Quote from: AndyB6 on April 24, 2021, 12:44:24 AM
2010-11 we finished 9th on 48 points. Blues finished 18th on 39. We must have been safe with more than one game left? I remember us beating Liverpool and Arsenal in our last two matches and West Ham away before those games that pretty much made us 'safe' if not mathematically.

We were only mathematically safe after beating Arsenal. The last game was that day when we went up five places.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on April 24, 2021, 01:59:56 AM
Does that mean we're an incredibly exciting team to support even in a decade of dirge ?
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: eamonn on April 24, 2021, 02:00:36 AM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on April 23, 2021, 09:07:17 PM
Quote from: brontebilly on April 23, 2021, 04:18:57 PM
Quote from: Clampy on April 23, 2021, 01:07:24 PM
I don't get some of the anger to be honest. Disappointment, yes because it could have gone better but I think overall this season has been a positive one.

We were all quite optimistic earlier in the season (results and performances were very good)

Bronte, I have no beef with you, and I enjoy a lot of your posts, but I enjoy them in the same way I enjoy Leonard Cohen records. The idea of you being optimistic is a stretch far enough to break reality!

You want it darker.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: dave shelley on April 24, 2021, 08:40:22 AM
At least I don't have to take my grandson fishing on the last day of the season this year just to try and ease my nerves.  I avoided all contact with people and radio still fully expecting the worst and not finding out until we got home.  That has to be progress.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: JD on April 24, 2021, 09:05:34 AM
Quote from: Chris Smith on April 23, 2021, 03:13:16 PM
We’ve improved each season under Smith. How many times have we been able to say that in recent years? If he keeps that up then he’ll deservedly keep his job.

Agree Chris.

How many of our squad are seasoned Premier League players? We have the youngest squad in the Premier League and hopefully next season we will be able to attract and sign better players and bring some of our talented youngsters through.
As long as we improve each season I will be happy.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: PaulWinch again on April 24, 2021, 09:08:47 AM
I think it’s clear Dean deserves to continue. Ultimately this season has been one of progression, but he does need to stop these long sequences of poor form.
Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
Post by: TelfordVilla on April 24, 2021, 09:13:50 AM 
 with a larger, better squad giving him more options for rotation he may be able to avoid periods of poor performance on the pitch. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ad@m on April 24, 2021, 09:14:29 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: eamonn on April 24, 2021, 01:59:56 AM
Does that mean we're an incredibly exciting team to support even in a decade of dirge ?

There are lots of words I'd use to describe the Lambert years, but exciting isn't one of them!!!
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Clampy on April 24, 2021, 09:24:01 AM
			

			

				I honestly do think it's been a season to look back on and be positive about things. We have arguably the best goalkeeper in the league, Cash has done well for his first season but he has a few things he needs to work on, Targett has improved immensely, Konsa hasn't put a foot wrong and looks an absolute bargain, Watkins has done well for his first season and can only get better and we have some very promising kids coming through. The midfield and wide area's need looking at though and another striker to help out Ollie is needed too. As for Smith, he's progressed year on year and whether he's the man long term is a fair question but I think personally he's earned the right to persevere with.

Or maybe there's a big pile of shit in the room. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Bobby Boy on April 24, 2021, 09:43:13 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Clampy on April 24, 2021, 09:24:01 AM
I honestly do think it's been a season to look back on and be positive about things. We have arguably the best goalkeeper in the league, Cash has done well for his first season but he has a few things he needs to work on, Targett has improved immensely, Konsa hasn't put a foot wrong and looks an absolute bargain, Watkins has done well for his first season and can only get better and we have some very promising kids coming through. The midfield and wide area's need looking at though and another striker to help out Ollie is needed too. As for Smith, he's progressed year on year and whether he's the man long term is a fair question but I think personally he's earned the right to persevere with.

Or maybe there's a big pile of shit in the room. 

Any talk of removing Dean is way premature but the last 13 games have been alarming. We have picked up some results in that time, sure, but they have been grinding it out performances. 

The last time we had any fluency or cohesion was the first half at Burnley and that can't be good enough.

The red lights aren't flashing but the amber ones are... 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: eamonn on April 24, 2021, 10:10:50 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: TelfordVilla on April 24, 2021, 09:13:50 AM
 with a larger, better squad giving him more options for rotation he may be able to avoid periods of poor performance on the pitch. 

Give any manager enough dough and they have a good chance to get it right eventually. Teach Dean to fish and he can feed the whole village around Bodymoor. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: AndyB6 on April 24, 2021, 10:26:14 AM
			

			

				We were only mathematically safe after beating Arsenal. The last game was that day when we went up five places.
[/quote]

Got it!
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: West Derby Villan on April 24, 2021, 12:38:19 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Clampy on April 24, 2021, 09:24:01 AM
I honestly do think it's been a season to look back on and be positive about things. We have arguably the best goalkeeper in the league, Cash has done well for his first season but he has a few things he needs to work on, Targett has improved immensely, Konsa hasn't put a foot wrong and looks an absolute bargain, Watkins has done well for his first season and can only get better and we have some very promising kids coming through. The midfield and wide area's need looking at though and another striker to help out Ollie is needed too. As for Smith, he's progressed year on year and whether he's the man long term is a fair question but I think personally he's earned the right to persevere with.

Or maybe there's a big pile of shit in the room.

Yep, that’s the way I see it
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Nunkin1965 on April 24, 2021, 12:52:06 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: West Derby Villan on April 24, 2021, 12:38:19 PM
Quote from: Clampy on April 24, 2021, 09:24:01 AM
I honestly do think it's been a season to look back on and be positive about things. We have arguably the best goalkeeper in the league, Cash has done well for his first season but he has a few things he needs to work on, Targett has improved immensely, Konsa hasn't put a foot wrong and looks an absolute bargain, Watkins has done well for his first season and can only get better and we have some very promising kids coming through. The midfield and wide area's need looking at though and another striker to help out Ollie is needed too. As for Smith, he's progressed year on year and whether he's the man long term is a fair question but I think personally he's earned the right to persevere with.

Or maybe there's a big pile of shit in the room.

Yep, that’s the way I see it
I'm in complete agreement with this.
I can see overall progress being made and we will be in a healthy position to push on next season.
I agree about Dean Smith. He's making progress and deserves time to develop the project.
With a summer of strong recruitment we can establish ourselves as a top half/ pushing for European football team and at the moment Deano holds the reins.
He's aware of the owners targets and if he slips below them he'll be replaced but that's not happening in the near future thats for sure.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ez on April 24, 2021, 01:11:46 PM
			

			

				A worrying thing for me is just how bad our midfield is without Jack and that's with three additions this season.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Monty on April 24, 2021, 01:28:59 PM
			

			

				I don't know if Smith has hit his ceiling yet, but that's mainly because he's improved us, very obviously, every year. Any discussion about his future, despite this awful run, is way premature IMO.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on April 24, 2021, 01:56:53 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: PaulWinch again on April 24, 2021, 09:08:47 AM
I think it’s clear Dean deserves to continue. Ultimately this season has been one of progression, but he does need to stop these long sequences of poor form.

You'll always get poor sequences of form even in good seasons. Those years we finished 6th under MON we had that ridiculous bad run after Moscow pretty much up to the final game so that must've been even worse than what we're on now and in 09/10 we also won 3 in 10 between Feb-April 2010 which cost us top 4 that year (mitigation due to us being in both cups at the time).

What we learnt back then is you need far less consistant form to finish 6th than 4th and same is just about true this season so while we're a far way off that currently shows in long run we need a manager who dosen't just go 1 win in 10 at a key period of the season.

Hopefully DS will learn but it feels a bit like Gregory and O'Neill in how we manage the squad and drop off just as others below us start to get stronger. Can only hope he gets better at that as we sign more players and improve the squad and first 11 unlike those two.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on April 24, 2021, 01:58:15 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Monty on April 24, 2021, 01:28:59 PM
I don't know if Smith has hit his ceiling yet, but that's mainly because he's improved us, very obviously, every year. Any discussion about his future, despite this awful run, is way premature IMO.

I think a lot depends on the next 6 games. Fail to win any and an awful run becomes a downright abysmal run.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: OCD on April 24, 2021, 01:58:17 PM
			

			

				The upside is that the club will have no doubt that more important work needs to be done over the summer and the areas that need work have been highlighted and are there for all to see. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on April 24, 2021, 02:02:22 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on April 24, 2021, 01:58:15 PM
Quote from: Monty on April 24, 2021, 01:28:59 PM
I don't know if Smith has hit his ceiling yet, but that's mainly because he's improved us, very obviously, every year. Any discussion about his future, despite this awful run, is way premature IMO.

I think a lot depends on the next 6 games. Fail to win any and an awful run becomes a downright abysmal run.

Indeed but a win tomorrow can relight the flame that burned so bright up until the new year. Hopefully we'll finish the season on a real high.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on April 24, 2021, 02:07:24 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: OCD on April 24, 2021, 01:58:17 PM
The upside is that the club will have no doubt that more important work needs to be done over the summer and the areas that need work have been highlighted and are there for all to see. 

Manager needs to be more flexible in his approach though.

Reminds me of summer 2009 when we signed Habib Beye, had Luke Young still at the club and then O'Neill decided 3 games in the season Cuellar would just play every single game at right back. That's when strengthening the squad has its drawbacks and it created problems for us down the line.

If we're going big on another striker and there's also demand from many for us to get in another CM then Ollie and McGinn will need to be rested on occasions otherwise we just have expensive backups and they start losing motivation with no obvious path into the first 11.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on April 24, 2021, 02:11:37 PM
			

			

				That's been his biggest failing for me this season, his inability to use the squad effectively, and the utterly ridiculous "I've never had to take a player off for exhaustion" bollocks. Perhaps we'd still have Grealish available if he took a slightly less medieval approach to fitness.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Toronto Villa on April 24, 2021, 02:38:53 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on April 24, 2021, 02:11:37 PM
That's been his biggest failing for me this season, his inability to use the squad effectively, and the utterly ridiculous "I've never had to take a player off for exhaustion" bollocks. Perhaps we'd still have Grealish available if he took a slightly less medieval approach to fitness.

Completely agree. He’s refused to change system and stubbornly stuck to the same way of playing. When it works it looks great. But when it doesn’t you simply have to know to implement something else. We have relied of late very unfairly in a defence which has been nothing short of superb all season to keep it down to one goal or clean sheets. And we’ve started to see the cracks in in it with mistakes from Cash, Emi and Mings as they get pushed deeper and deeper. We have to get back to playing on the front foot. But as the weeks have gone by we keep the ball less and less thinking we are still the counter attacking team with Grealish. Without him we have to play a different way and he still persists with a system that assumes he’s still playing. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: TonyD on April 24, 2021, 05:04:40 PM
			

			

				The football and tactics in the PL evolve and change so quickly these days that managers need to adapt quickly, having different systems to start matches and then hot on using the right subs during a game.  Dean falls down on most of this.  I also haven’t seen signs of much improvement in these areas when things don’t work.  The fact that most of us on here can see this is concerning.   Don’t mind being beaten but you need to see evidence of what we are working towards - I can only see the same old each game.  Better players will obviously improve his system but only so far.  

I think defensively we are in good place - how much down to JT.

After what happened this week - we all want Dean to take us forward and win trophies.   Let’s hope he can adapt and quickly. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Clive W on April 24, 2021, 05:38:50 PM
			

			

				Doesn’t our recent drop off in form reflect our historical problems with squad depth?

Without going into a season by season analysis, my recollections over the last 12-15 years are that even when we have had a half decent side it only goes as far as the starting XI. 

As soon as loss of form, injuries and suspensions kick in, as they inevitably do, our lack of depth in numbers and quality kills us. All we end up doing is rearranging the deck chairs. 

I think this season is no different
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: danno on April 24, 2021, 07:12:50 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Clive W on April 24, 2021, 05:38:50 PM
Doesn’t our recent drop off in form reflect our historical problems with squad depth?

Without going into a season by season analysis, my recollections over the last 12-15 years are that even when we have had a half decent side it only goes as far as the starting XI. 

As soon as loss of form, injuries and suspensions kick in, as they inevitably do, our lack of depth in numbers and quality kills us. All we end up doing is rearranging the deck chairs. 

I think this season is no different

Nail on head.

Injury at right back - Elmo
Injury at left back - Neil Taylor
Injury at Centre forward - Keinan Davis
Injury at centre back - Kourtney Hause
Injury at Left wing - El Ghazi

They've all contributed and some more positively than others (Hause, Anwar) but they are all without being harsh, a step down in quality.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Lastfootstamper on April 24, 2021, 08:38:31 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: dave.woodhall on April 24, 2021, 12:50:02 AM
Quote from: AndyB6 on April 24, 2021, 12:44:24 AM
2010-11 we finished 9th on 48 points. Blues finished 18th on 39. We must have been safe with more than one game left? I remember us beating Liverpool and Arsenal in our last two matches and West Ham away before those games that pretty much made us 'safe' if not mathematically.

We were only mathematically safe after beating Arsenal. The last game was that day when we went up five places.
 

Not unlike the title tilt under SGT. With a week of the season left, we could still win it. Seven days later, we're runners up by a relatively whopping nine points. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on April 24, 2021, 09:45:35 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Clive W on April 24, 2021, 05:38:50 PM
Doesn’t our recent drop off in form reflect our historical problems with squad depth?

Without going into a season by season analysis, my recollections over the last 12-15 years are that even when we have had a half decent side it only goes as far as the starting XI. 

As soon as loss of form, injuries and suspensions kick in, as they inevitably do, our lack of depth in numbers and quality kills us. All we end up doing is rearranging the deck chairs. 

I think this season is no different

Yeah we still seem to be stuck in 80s mentality constantly a bit with regards that, the old winning the league with 13/14 players which is near impossible in modern football.

As Risso pointed out above, DS giving the big 'un at xmas about none of his players ever getting tired dosen't look so good at the moment as fresher teams buzz around us.

We will improve the squad and first 11 of course over the next year but the manager must be interested in actually signing players who can take the place of those currently seen as first choices in our 11 and really push the competition level and motivation up a notch as that's constantly been our downfall over the years, just signing up players who come to make up the numbers and quickly lose motivation on big pay packets.

Not so much on here but elsewhere there seems to be odd mentality we shouldn't sign another decent striker as it might upset Ollie and ruin his England prospects. He's had an excellent debut season but let's not go OTT, you have that mentality when forward is scoring 25-30 goals in a season as likes of Kane and Vardy do, not 12-15.

4 points is all we've taken from being behind in games so it will remain a huge issue for us until we have some decent game changers to come on. You don't finish top 6 with that bad a record.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Clampy on April 24, 2021, 11:01:01 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: danno on April 24, 2021, 07:12:50 PM
Quote from: Clive W on April 24, 2021, 05:38:50 PM
Doesn’t our recent drop off in form reflect our historical problems with squad depth?

Without going into a season by season analysis, my recollections over the last 12-15 years are that even when we have had a half decent side it only goes as far as the starting XI. 

As soon as loss of form, injuries and suspensions kick in, as they inevitably do, our lack of depth in numbers and quality kills us. All we end up doing is rearranging the deck chairs. 

I think this season is no different

Nail on head.

Injury at right back - Elmo
Injury at left back - Neil Taylor
Injury at Centre forward - Keinan Davis
Injury at centre back - Kourtney Hause
Injury at Left wing - El Ghazi

They've all contributed and some more positively than others (Hause, Anwar) but they are all without being harsh, a step down in quality.

But second season in just after escaping relegation by the skin of our teeth, are you surprised? It needs to be baby steps. Besides, the likes of Elmo might be good to have around the dressing room. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: eamonn on April 24, 2021, 11:28:01 PM
			

			

				Jack won't stay if it's baby steps. We need leaps.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on April 24, 2021, 11:36:10 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: SoccerHQ on April 24, 2021, 09:45:35 PM
Quote from: Clive W on April 24, 2021, 05:38:50 PM
Doesn’t our recent drop off in form reflect our historical problems with squad depth?

Without going into a season by season analysis, my recollections over the last 12-15 years are that even when we have had a half decent side it only goes as far as the starting XI. 

As soon as loss of form, injuries and suspensions kick in, as they inevitably do, our lack of depth in numbers and quality kills us. All we end up doing is rearranging the deck chairs. 

I think this season is no different

Yeah we still seem to be stuck in 80s mentality constantly a bit with regards that, the old winning the league with 13/14 players which is near impossible in modern football.

As Risso pointed out above, DS giving the big 'un at xmas about none of his players ever getting tired dosen't look so good at the moment as fresher teams buzz around us.

We will improve the squad and first 11 of course over the next year but the manager must be interested in actually signing players who can take the place of those currently seen as first choices in our 11 and really push the competition level and motivation up a notch as that's constantly been our downfall over the years, just signing up players who come to make up the numbers and quickly lose motivation on big pay packets.

Not so much on here but elsewhere there seems to be odd mentality we shouldn't sign another decent striker as it might upset Ollie and ruin his England prospects. He's had an excellent debut season but let's not go OTT, you have that mentality when forward is scoring 25-30 goals in a season as likes of Kane and Vardy do, not 12-15.

4 points is all we've taken from being behind in games so it will remain a huge issue for us until we have some decent game changers to come on. You don't finish top 6 with that bad a record.

I can't agree with the bold bit given there's not a single player in the league who currently has 25 goals this season and there's every chance that no one will hit that mark at all this season. You talk about people being stuck in an 80s mentality at the top of your post but the line I highlighted is as out-of-date as anything gets in football. Centre forwards who score fuckloads of goals are dying out in the game, Kane, Lewandowski and Haaland are exceptional strikers but after those 3 it becomes a lot harder to find out and out 9s at the top of the scoring charts.

In England the next 3 after Kane are Salah, Fernandes and Son. In Italy and Spain Ronaldo and Messi top the charts as wide forwards, in France you have Mbappe, Depay, Volland and Ben Yedder who all play wide and deep as often as they play as an out and out centre forward. Germany is the only major league where traditional 9s are still bossing the top scorers list and they have 2 of the 3 best 9s in world football in the league.

On that basis I don't think we should be looking for direct competition or a replacement for Watkins and certainly not as a priority. What we need to find is a player who pushes to start at centre forward, right wing, 10, attacking midfield and maybe even left wing, someone who gives us the ability to change shape during games not just by switching wings but because all 3/4 attacking players are capable of moving into each others space and overloading areas of the pitch. Earlierin the season we were doing that and forcing defenders to make decisions to mark a run or attack the ball, when we stopped doing that is when the bad run started, I want more players that can fit that plan so we can rotate and still do the same thing.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: PaulWinch again on April 24, 2021, 11:37:46 PM
			

			

				Yes that’s a good point. Our growth needs to be rapid. This is season is fine, but we’ll need to take another big step next season.

Also whilst the likes of Elmo might be good around the squad we can’t afford for them to be our second choice in the event of injury or loss of form. We need stronger competition in some positions. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: eamonn on April 25, 2021, 01:02:14 AM
			

			

				I think SHQ has a point about Dean possibly being blinded by favourites. Will Watkins, McGinn and Mings always start regardless of form or if they look in need of a breather? They all need to be pushed for competition.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: CT Villan on April 25, 2021, 02:27:34 AM
			

			

				This might be a long shot but with the recent ESL debacle it may convince our owners to splash the cash this summer to ensure we have a place at the table for ESL v2.0.

Dean has rightly earned the chance to try and move us forward over the remaining games this season and the start of the next at a minimum.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Scott Nielsen on April 25, 2021, 05:07:35 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: eamonn on April 24, 2021, 11:28:01 PM
Jack won't stay if it's baby steps. We need leaps.

I fear you are right and the investment that requires may not be inline with our growth philosophy. We believe we need 3-4 top players to come in. But Everton, West Ham et al will go for it as well so I worry it'll take a lot more than we think to genuinly push for top 6 next season. The second half of this season has been a brutal awakening. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ez on April 25, 2021, 07:42:09 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: eamonn on April 24, 2021, 11:28:01 PM
Jack won't stay if it's baby steps. We need leaps.
This. It's possible he's got an escape clause in that new contract of his.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Clampy on April 25, 2021, 07:48:18 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Scott Nielsen on April 25, 2021, 05:07:35 AM
Quote from: eamonn on April 24, 2021, 11:28:01 PM
Jack won't stay if it's baby steps. We need leaps.

I fear you are right and the investment that requires may not be inline with our growth philosophy. We believe we need 3-4 top players to come in. But Everton, West Ham et al will go for it as well so I worry it'll take a lot more than we think to genuinly push for top 6 next season. The second half of this season has been a brutal awakening. 

I wasn't talking about still making baby steps in 3-4 years time but where we are right now, I don't see a problem with having the likes of Elmo and Taylor on the bench but the end of this season will probably be the right time to move them and maybe a few others on. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: RamboandBruno on April 25, 2021, 10:31:44 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Toronto Villa on April 24, 2021, 02:38:53 PM
Quote from: Risso on April 24, 2021, 02:11:37 PM
That's been his biggest failing for me this season, his inability to use the squad effectively, and the utterly ridiculous "I've never had to take a player off for exhaustion" bollocks. Perhaps we'd still have Grealish available if he took a slightly less medieval approach to fitness.

Completely agree. He’s refused to change system and stubbornly stuck to the same way of playing. When it works it looks great. But when it doesn’t you simply have to know to implement something else. We have relied of late very unfairly in a defence which has been nothing short of superb all season to keep it down to one goal or clean sheets. And we’ve started to see the cracks in in it with mistakes from Cash, Emi and Mings as they get pushed deeper and deeper. We have to get back to playing on the front foot. But as the weeks have gone by we keep the ball less and less thinking we are still the counter attacking team with Grealish. Without him we have to play a different way and he still persists with a system that assumes he’s still playing.
I think this is a really good summary of what’s been happening over the last couple of months. However, there is one gap in the analysis, and that is who comes in? 
I, like a lot of others have been going on about Davis coming in alongside Ollie to change things up, but I’ll admit, it’s grasping at straws a bit. Maybe one of the kids, instead of Traore/El Ghazi? The point is, Smith has spent a lot of money, but it’s relatively small fry to a lot of the teams we’re looking at above us, if you consider their spending when we were languishing in the championship. Despite our spend, we haven’t got the depth at the moment.
People can point to Leeds, but it’s a different set of circumstances. Despite being 3 years in the championship we weren’t really expected to go up when we did because of our start that year under Bruce. We had to pile on loads of players, a few of whom have come good, but lots (Jota, Drinkwater, Samatta, Nakamba, Trez, Engels) simply weren’t/aren’t good enough. Smith needs to show a bit more flexibility but honestly I think we need to just ride it out now till the end of the season, hopefully get another 3 wins starting with tonight, to give us a respectable plus 50 points haul, then ship a few out-El Ghazi, Engels, Nakamba, Barkley, and ship a new CM, wide player and forward in, in the summer. 

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on April 25, 2021, 12:45:33 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: paul_e on April 24, 2021, 11:36:10 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on April 24, 2021, 09:45:35 PM
Quote from: Clive W on April 24, 2021, 05:38:50 PM
Doesn’t our recent drop off in form reflect our historical problems with squad depth?

Without going into a season by season analysis, my recollections over the last 12-15 years are that even when we have had a half decent side it only goes as far as the starting XI. 

As soon as loss of form, injuries and suspensions kick in, as they inevitably do, our lack of depth in numbers and quality kills us. All we end up doing is rearranging the deck chairs. 

I think this season is no different

Yeah we still seem to be stuck in 80s mentality constantly a bit with regards that, the old winning the league with 13/14 players which is near impossible in modern football.

As Risso pointed out above, DS giving the big 'un at xmas about none of his players ever getting tired dosen't look so good at the moment as fresher teams buzz around us.

We will improve the squad and first 11 of course over the next year but the manager must be interested in actually signing players who can take the place of those currently seen as first choices in our 11 and really push the competition level and motivation up a notch as that's constantly been our downfall over the years, just signing up players who come to make up the numbers and quickly lose motivation on big pay packets.

Not so much on here but elsewhere there seems to be odd mentality we shouldn't sign another decent striker as it might upset Ollie and ruin his England prospects. He's had an excellent debut season but let's not go OTT, you have that mentality when forward is scoring 25-30 goals in a season as likes of Kane and Vardy do, not 12-15.

4 points is all we've taken from being behind in games so it will remain a huge issue for us until we have some decent game changers to come on. You don't finish top 6 with that bad a record.

I can't agree with the bold bit given there's not a single player in the league who currently has 25 goals this season and there's every chance that no one will hit that mark at all this season. You talk about people being stuck in an 80s mentality at the top of your post but the line I highlighted is as out-of-date as anything gets in football. Centre forwards who score fuckloads of goals are dying out in the game, Kane, Lewandowski and Haaland are exceptional strikers but after those 3 it becomes a lot harder to find out and out 9s at the top of the scoring charts.

In England the next 3 after Kane are Salah, Fernandes and Son. In Italy and Spain Ronaldo and Messi top the charts as wide forwards, in France you have Mbappe, Depay, Volland and Ben Yedder who all play wide and deep as often as they play as an out and out centre forward. Germany is the only major league where traditional 9s are still bossing the top scorers list and they have 2 of the 3 best 9s in world football in the league.

On that basis I don't think we should be looking for direct competition or a replacement for Watkins and certainly not as a priority. What we need to find is a player who pushes to start at centre forward, right wing, 10, attacking midfield and maybe even left wing, someone who gives us the ability to change shape during games not just by switching wings but because all 3/4 attacking players are capable of moving into each others space and overloading areas of the pitch. Earlierin the season we were doing that and forcing defenders to make decisions to mark a run or attack the ball, when we stopped doing that is when the bad run started, I want more players that can fit that plan so we can rotate and still do the same thing.

Ah right I got it a bit wrong as someone on radio mentioned Salah had scored 26 already this season so didn't assume a few of them were in the cup competitions.

Son actually has 20 for the season now.

Probably unfair to judge this season given we had so few cup games for different reasons and aren't in europe but going forward we do need probably 3 players in the squad capable of hitting double figures in all competitions.

None of the midfielders or wide attackers are capable aside from Jack if we put him on penalties.

I find it hard to think we'll sign a wide player capable of that this summer tbh, just can't see us going and paying 30-40m for someone with that sort of scoring record and even then the fear is they'll just morph into N'zogbia overnight and be massive waste of money.

I think in the short run getting a Wood type striker in squad would make sense as they just replace Davis and then hopefully DS trusts them far more to actually put them on after 65 minutes and give them starts here and there and so that type should chip in as the season goes on in league and cup.

Chris Wood hat trick as I type. We'd need to improve our corners big time with sort of striker though as ours are woeful.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: danno on April 25, 2021, 03:53:04 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Clampy on April 24, 2021, 11:01:01 PM
Quote from: danno on April 24, 2021, 07:12:50 PM
Quote from: Clive W on April 24, 2021, 05:38:50 PM
Doesn’t our recent drop off in form reflect our historical problems with squad depth?

Without going into a season by season analysis, my recollections over the last 12-15 years are that even when we have had a half decent side it only goes as far as the starting XI. 

As soon as loss of form, injuries and suspensions kick in, as they inevitably do, our lack of depth in numbers and quality kills us. All we end up doing is rearranging the deck chairs. 

I think this season is no different

Nail on head.

Injury at right back - Elmo
Injury at left back - Neil Taylor
Injury at Centre forward - Keinan Davis
Injury at centre back - Kourtney Hause
Injury at Left wing - El Ghazi

They've all contributed and some more positively than others (Hause, Anwar) but they are all without being harsh, a step down in quality.

But second season in just after escaping relegation by the skin of our teeth, are you surprised? It needs to be baby steps. Besides, the likes of Elmo might be good to have around the dressing room.

I was trying to make the point that many other teams chasing top six places have better squad options than us. I wasn't lookng to be critical.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Clampy on April 25, 2021, 04:48:49 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: danno on April 25, 2021, 03:53:04 PM
Quote from: Clampy on April 24, 2021, 11:01:01 PM
Quote from: danno on April 24, 2021, 07:12:50 PM
Quote from: Clive W on April 24, 2021, 05:38:50 PM
Doesn’t our recent drop off in form reflect our historical problems with squad depth?

Without going into a season by season analysis, my recollections over the last 12-15 years are that even when we have had a half decent side it only goes as far as the starting XI. 

As soon as loss of form, injuries and suspensions kick in, as they inevitably do, our lack of depth in numbers and quality kills us. All we end up doing is rearranging the deck chairs. 

I think this season is no different

Nail on head.

Injury at right back - Elmo
Injury at left back - Neil Taylor
Injury at Centre forward - Keinan Davis
Injury at centre back - Kourtney Hause
Injury at Left wing - El Ghazi

They've all contributed and some more positively than others (Hause, Anwar) but they are all without being harsh, a step down in quality.

But second season in just after escaping relegation by the skin of our teeth, are you surprised? It needs to be baby steps. Besides, the likes of Elmo might be good to have around the dressing room.

I was trying to make the point that many other teams chasing top six places have better squad options than us. I wasn't lookng to be critical.

But most of those are established  Premier League sides. This is only our second season back up so we need to build up to having better squad options. That will come next season hopefully. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Toronto Villa on April 25, 2021, 08:19:38 PM
			

			

				He deserved the plaudits at the start of the season. But as soon as teams started figuring out our strengths even with Jack playing and obviously without him Dean Smith literally could not adapt. He’s being found out at this level in a very public way. It’s not good to watch.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Three Spires Villa on April 25, 2021, 08:28:24 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Toronto Villa on April 25, 2021, 08:19:38 PM
He deserved the plaudits at the start of the season. But as soon as teams started figuring out our strengths even with Jack playing and obviously without him Dean Smith literally could not adapt. He’s being found out at this level in a very public way. It’s not good to watch.

I have to agree with this 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Aldridge Villa on April 25, 2021, 09:03:29 PM
			

			

				The vultures are starting to scent blood Dean. Your reluctance to start Davis against either Liverpool or Albion quite baffling. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on April 25, 2021, 09:13:23 PM
			

			

				We need real quality to sign in next two windows while Jack remains at the club. It's as simple as that.

No idea what FFP allows for us currently but I'd like a bit more imagination than just looking at who got MOTM for Brentford at the weekend.

Sooner or later we'll need to sign a player you instantly watch and think "yep he'll help get us into the top 6 again before too long." Carew six months into Lerner reign is good example of this.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Billy Walker on April 25, 2021, 09:19:57 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Three Spires Villa on April 25, 2021, 08:28:24 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on April 25, 2021, 08:19:38 PM
He deserved the plaudits at the start of the season. But as soon as teams started figuring out our strengths even with Jack playing and obviously without him Dean Smith literally could not adapt. He’s being found out at this level in a very public way. It’s not good to watch.

I have to agree with this 

Year on year improvement suggests (to me, at least ) that we are a work in progress and methodically assembling a squad.  If we finish somewhere between 8th and 11th this season it will be a job well done by Deano and the coaching staff.  

Next year will be the big one for Deano, I feel.  Over the summer we will be rid of the remaining Championship-level players in the squad, and hopefully we will bring in the extra quality required to support Ollie and the spine of the team. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: LukeJames on April 25, 2021, 09:22:55 PM
			

			

				Didnt know were to put this but fuck me our corners/Set pieces are beyond shit. With Grealish out and us struggling to get points and performances without him, this would be a good opportunity to improve this side of our game. I've got zero confidence in anything happening when we have a corne. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ketzster on April 25, 2021, 09:29:52 PM
			

			

				We need what is best for Aston Villa, not what is best for Dean Smith. Unfortunately I don’t think having Dean Smith as manager is what is best for the club. Obviously, because he’s a fan, automatically there’s a connection there. But ultimately he is still being paid handsomely for doing the job and should be judged by the same criteria as any other manager. I think any other manager after the last few months would be under far more pressure by now. These long spells of poor form can’t continue. It can’t be Smith when it’s going well and the players when it’s going badly
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: richtheholtender on April 25, 2021, 10:38:52 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: LukeJames on April 25, 2021, 09:22:55 PM
Didnt know were to put this but fuck me our corners/Set pieces are beyond shit. With Grealish out and us struggling to get points and performances without him, this would be a good opportunity to improve this side of our game. I've got zero confidence in anything happening when we have a corne. 



Been like it for decades. The crappy corners that hit the first man is a common sight at VP
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: brontebilly on April 25, 2021, 10:45:05 PM
			

			

				The biggest disappointment for me is Luiz and McGinn. I really thought they would kick on this season. Luiz is regressing, alarmingly so. McGinn has been moved around a lot in fairness but just hasn't been doing it consistently. They both need competition for their places next season.  
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: aj2k77 on April 25, 2021, 10:50:23 PM
			

			

				As well as the midfield, I'd be looking at replacing Smith in the Summer. Not good enough if we are serious about finishing top 8 next season. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: pauliewalnuts on April 25, 2021, 11:20:18 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: brontebilly on April 25, 2021, 10:45:05 PM
The biggest disappointment for me is Luiz and McGinn. I really thought they would kick on this season. Luiz is regressing, alarmingly so. McGinn has been moved around a lot in fairness but just hasn't been doing it consistently. They both need competition for their places next season.  

They have both been poor, but McGinn particularly, I lost count of how many times he lost the ball carelessly today.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: PaulWinch again on April 25, 2021, 11:21:22 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: brontebilly on April 25, 2021, 10:45:05 PM
The biggest disappointment for me is Luiz and McGinn. I really thought they would kick on this season. Luiz is regressing, alarmingly so. McGinn has been moved around a lot in fairness but just hasn't been doing it consistently. They both need competition for their places next season.  

Luiz is out of form and I suspect tired. He needs a break. Likewise I think McGinn needs a break too.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: RamboandBruno on April 25, 2021, 11:22:37 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: aj2k77 on April 25, 2021, 10:50:23 PM
As well as the midfield, I'd be looking at replacing Smith in the Summer. Not good enough if we are serious about finishing top 8 next season.

Your posting similar things every single week
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: OzVilla on April 25, 2021, 11:22:42 PM
			

			

				I think Smith is still safe with NSWE but maybe not as nailed on as he was 3 months ago. Then there wasn’t even a conversation. Now there still shouldn’t be but the next 7 games may still make a difference to their thinking. 

Personally I’d not be looking at changing but I’m quite sentimental and believe in loyalty. Billionaires probably not so much. And Edens has a history of unexpected and making bold changes.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: OzVilla on April 25, 2021, 11:24:56 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: PaulWinch again on April 25, 2021, 11:21:22 PM
Quote from: brontebilly on April 25, 2021, 10:45:05 PM
The biggest disappointment for me is Luiz and McGinn. I really thought they would kick on this season. Luiz is regressing, alarmingly so. McGinn has been moved around a lot in fairness but just hasn't been doing it consistently. They both need competition for their places next season.  

Luiz is out of form and I suspect tired. He needs a break. Likewise I think McGinn needs a break too.

I’m not in the slightest bit concerned about either of those too. Still integral players for the next 2/3 years for me.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on April 25, 2021, 11:25:33 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: RamboandBruno on April 25, 2021, 11:22:37 PM
Quote from: aj2k77 on April 25, 2021, 10:50:23 PM
As well as the midfield, I'd be looking at replacing Smith in the Summer. Not good enough if we are serious about finishing top 8 next season.

Your posting similar things every single week

That's because the results are similarly crap, every single week.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on April 25, 2021, 11:26:36 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: PaulWinch again on April 25, 2021, 11:21:22 PM
Quote from: brontebilly on April 25, 2021, 10:45:05 PM
The biggest disappointment for me is Luiz and McGinn. I really thought they would kick on this season. Luiz is regressing, alarmingly so. McGinn has been moved around a lot in fairness but just hasn't been doing it consistently. They both need competition for their places next season.  

Luiz is out of form and I suspect tired. He needs a break. Likewise I think McGinn needs a break too.

Luiz has had games on the bench in last two months and didn't travel during last international break so really not sure what's up.

McGinn is one of those who'll play every minute of every game as long as he can walk so not sure that will change next season.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: RamboandBruno on April 25, 2021, 11:27:38 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on April 25, 2021, 11:25:33 PM
Quote from: RamboandBruno on April 25, 2021, 11:22:37 PM
Quote from: aj2k77 on April 25, 2021, 10:50:23 PM
As well as the midfield, I'd be looking at replacing Smith in the Summer. Not good enough if we are serious about finishing top 8 next season.

I think you have to take the season as a whole. I also thought we played fairly well tonight. But hey ho

Your posting similar things every single week

That's because the results are similarly crap, every single week.

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: PaulWinch again on April 25, 2021, 11:31:58 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: SoccerHQ on April 25, 2021, 11:26:36 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on April 25, 2021, 11:21:22 PM
Quote from: brontebilly on April 25, 2021, 10:45:05 PM
The biggest disappointment for me is Luiz and McGinn. I really thought they would kick on this season. Luiz is regressing, alarmingly so. McGinn has been moved around a lot in fairness but just hasn't been doing it consistently. They both need competition for their places next season.  

Luiz is out of form and I suspect tired. He needs a break. Likewise I think McGinn needs a break too.

Luiz has had games on the bench in last two months and didn't travel during last international break so really not sure what's up.

McGinn is one of those who'll play every minute of every game as long as he can walk so not sure that will change next season.

I mean a sustained break. It’s worth remembering Douglas is a young player who has played a hell of a lot of games in a short space of time, including being absolutely critical in our survival last season. I suspect a break and full pre-season will do him the world of good (hopefully as our player!).
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on April 25, 2021, 11:36:18 PM
			

			

				We have completed our March and April fixtures 
Played 8
Won 1
Drawn 3
Lost 4 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on April 25, 2021, 11:41:05 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: PaulWinch again on April 25, 2021, 11:31:58 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on April 25, 2021, 11:26:36 PM
Quote from: PaulWinch again on April 25, 2021, 11:21:22 PM
Quote from: brontebilly on April 25, 2021, 10:45:05 PM
The biggest disappointment for me is Luiz and McGinn. I really thought they would kick on this season. Luiz is regressing, alarmingly so. McGinn has been moved around a lot in fairness but just hasn't been doing it consistently. They both need competition for their places next season.  

Luiz is out of form and I suspect tired. He needs a break. Likewise I think McGinn needs a break too.

Luiz has had games on the bench in last two months and didn't travel during last international break so really not sure what's up.

McGinn is one of those who'll play every minute of every game as long as he can walk so not sure that will change next season.

I mean a sustained break. It’s worth remembering Douglas is a young player who has played a hell of a lot of games in a short space of time, including being absolutely critical in our survival last season. I suspect a break and full pre-season will do him the world of good (hopefully as our player!).

Bad news. As it stands Brazil playing copa America and a few world cup qualifiers in June. Final on July 10th. He's a cert to be in the squad. Not sure if they'll call him up for the Olympics aswell.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Copa_Am%C3%A9rica

Dean will have lost it a bit if he starts next season with the same 11 starting week after week given we'll have likes of McGinn and hopefully Mings and Grealish involved at the euros so rotation is simply a must at start of next season.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: cdbearsfan on April 25, 2021, 11:44:39 PM
			

			

				He's one of their best under-24 players so very likely to be in the Olympic squad I'd have thought. Can see that being prioritised ahead of Copa America. 

We can technically refuse to release him for the Olympics but it might not go down well.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on April 25, 2021, 11:46:57 PM
			

			

				Isn't Olympics late July/early August? So he could possibly play in both which would mean next to no pre season for us and very little rest.

Guess we'll see more of Sanson start of next season so that's one and Ramsey will get more starts aswell.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: cdbearsfan on April 26, 2021, 12:05:36 AM
			

			

				I don't think they'll choose players to play in both. Clubs can refuse to release players for the Olympics and they'd probably feel justified in doing so if Brazil tried that. 

The Copa America runs June 13th to July 11th. Olympics is from July 21st to August 8th. The Premier League starts on 14th August. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: PaulWinch again on April 26, 2021, 12:09:51 AM
			

			

				Dean really does need to get better at using his squad. Clearly part of that is having sufficient depth in the squad to be willing/prepared to use it. But he has made comments that in the past that suggest he doesn’t really believe in resting players. He needs to get over that.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: brontebilly on April 26, 2021, 08:15:37 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: SoccerHQ on April 25, 2021, 11:46:57 PM
Isn't Olympics late July/early August? So he could possibly play in both which would mean next to no pre season for us and very little rest.

Guess we'll see more of Sanson start of next season so that's one and Ramsey will get more starts aswell.

Ramsey generally disappoints when he starts and impresses when he comes on as a sub. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Monty on April 26, 2021, 09:51:23 AM
			

			

				The meaninglessness of the end of the season means to me that it's time to experiment. Deano loves this system, but it's reliant on our least well performing (and most injured) players. A diamond 4-4-2 could help get the best out of McGinn once more, gives Keinan a chance and let's Ollie worry a little less about occupying whole defences by himself and focus a little more on scoring goals. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: brontebilly on April 26, 2021, 10:00:13 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Monty on April 26, 2021, 09:51:23 AM
The meaninglessness of the end of the season means to me that it's time to experiment. Deano loves this system, but it's reliant on our least well performing (and most injured) players. A diamond 4-4-2 could help get the best out of McGinn once more, gives Keinan a chance and let's Ollie worry a little less about occupying whole defences by himself and focus a little more on scoring goals.

I'd like to see Watkins tried more on the wing. It's an option I'd like to see us use a bit more next season. Definitely worth trying until the season end in a few games. As much as we would all like to see McGinn further up the pitch, starting Nakamba again is a no go for me. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: TonyD on April 26, 2021, 10:12:52 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: ChicagoLion on April 25, 2021, 11:36:18 PM
We have completed our March and April fixtures 
Played 8
Won 1
Drawn 3
Lost 4 

Yikes - didn’t realise it was that bad.  
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: passport1 on April 26, 2021, 10:14:51 AM
			

			

				Yes I suspect the owners will be assessing  that come the end of the season
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on April 26, 2021, 10:24:03 AM
			

			

				I think Dean Smith has done a great job since he came

But my own personal view is he will not be good enough to build a team to take us into the top six
I know people will say he needs to be given the chance and that’s fine I can see why people think that
But for me he won’t do it he’s too old-fashioned in his ways too stubborn to inflexible he’s not learning on the job he’s making the same mistakes game after game
And obviously the biggest thing is he’s been reliant on Grealish to get him to where we are at the moment

That creates two big questions 1 when do we part ways with him
And 2 who replaces him
If the replacements are Sean Dyche, EddieHowe type people Then although there is absolutely nothing wrong with them they’re both fine managers but they’re not what we need to take us to the top six
If that’s where we are then I’d much rather just stick with Smith As he is plenty good enough to keep us mid table in the premiership

What we need is someone in Nagelsmann’s class (probably Bayern bound) which is going to be difficult but then we are the second richest club in the premiership and money does talk apparently
Leeds got the Bielsa and Everton got Ancelotti

Thinking big and going for it can be done
as for when to make the change I think that all depends on when the right man is available to replace him with

What I think will happen is we will stick with Dean and see if he can get us to the next level hopefully he proves me wrong 
my fear is if he doesn’t we might find we are back to square one with player replacements and spending again 
Sometimes it’s best to change when you have the manoeuvered yourself into a better position rather than when you have hit the bottom


			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: London Villan on April 26, 2021, 10:28:00 AM
			

			

				Dean will spend £100m in the summer and be expected to deliver... A run of form at the start of the season like we are experiencing now and he'll be under immense pressure. Start like we did this season and he'll be tipped as the next England manager.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on April 26, 2021, 10:47:51 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: john e on April 26, 2021, 10:24:03 AM
That creates two big questions 1 when do we part ways with him
And 2 who replaces him
If the replacements are Sean Dyche, EddieHowe type people Then although there is absolutely nothing wrong with them they’re both fine managers but they’re not what we need to take us to the top six
If that’s where we are then I’d much rather just stick with Smith As he is plenty good enough to keep us mid table in the premiership

Not going to quote the whole thing and I don't agree with lots of it but this bit is important.

You are absolutely correct that managers like those 2 are not what we want or need, there are plenty more names that could be added as well.

When Smith goes then there are 2 ways to replace him that should be on the table.
1. Someone with a pedigree of bringing through youth players. This would be the choice if we decide to really double down on making our own stars via the academy and want someone to come in and give them game time.
2. A big name who will make teams and players sit up and take notice, someone that people think should be out of our reach (for me it'd be seeing what it would take to get Simeone to leave Atletico).
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on April 26, 2021, 10:50:13 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: paul_e on April 26, 2021, 10:47:51 AM
Quote from: john e on April 26, 2021, 10:24:03 AM
That creates two big questions 1 when do we part ways with him
And 2 who replaces him
If the replacements are Sean Dyche, EddieHowe type people Then although there is absolutely nothing wrong with them they’re both fine managers but they’re not what we need to take us to the top six
If that’s where we are then I’d much rather just stick with Smith As he is plenty good enough to keep us mid table in the premiership

Not going to quote the whole thing and I don't agree with lots of it but this bit is important.

You are absolutely correct that managers like those 2 are not what we want or need, there are plenty more names that could be added as well.

When Smith goes then there are 2 ways to replace him that should be on the table.
1. Someone with a pedigree of bringing through youth players. This would be the choice if we decide to really double down on making our own stars via the academy and want someone to come in and give them game time.
2. A big name who will make teams and players sit up and take notice, someone that people think should be out of our reach (for me it'd be seeing what it would take to get Simeone to leave Atletico).

I've been critical of Smith. but I'd rather keep him than go for somebody like Howe or Dyche. I want the owners to start acting like the other gazillionaire owners and start thinking as big. Simeone would be brilliant, but if that's a bit unrealistic somebody like Schmidt at PSV would be a good fit.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Monty on April 26, 2021, 10:51:06 AM
			

			

				I think Simeone is doomed to fail if he leaves the universe he's created in his image over there, and especially if he comes to England, as many people have remarked that his charisma is highly dependent on how he expresses himself in Spanish.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: LeeB on April 26, 2021, 10:58:08 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Monty on April 26, 2021, 10:51:06 AM
I think Simeone is doomed to fail if he leaves the universe he's created in his image over there, and especially if he comes to England, as many people have remarked that his charisma is highly dependent on how he expresses himself in Spanish.

Yeah, but he's fucking cool and menacing. It's enough for me.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: boozey182 on April 26, 2021, 11:03:28 AM
			

			

				I think Dean bought himself another 12 months with our form up until New Year. It's easy to forget now, but we were really good up until that point. Obviously, that was largely down to Jack's form, but I can't remember too many matches at all in which we were outplayed up until that point. Leeds at home is the only one that jumps out.

It's frustrating to see it all fizzle out, and there are a few worrying signs - not least the very basic errors that we continue to make. But the biggest worry is the fact he seems hell-bent on the same formation *no matter what*.

I think his greatest achievement as Villa manager so far is keeping us up after the Covid break. He went away and did something that most managers seem incapable of doing - he went against is natural instincts and changed the way we set up. Making us harder to beat is what got us those points in the last four matches, and it was all down to him. He made that happen. by learning from his mistakes.

That's what makes the last couple of months so frustrating. Keinan has made a difference on a few occasions now (let's not forget the penalty he could have had in the last seconds against Man U, which never got looked at), but Dean still seems reluctant to change the system to incorporate him, often opting for Barkley instead. Ramsey, I understand, but Barkley? Is he just being stubborn? I can't work out the logic.

The only thing that matters at this point is next season, in my opinion. I want to see Dean building for that. Whether that means trying out a few kids to give them experience, or trying out a few new systems - I want evidence that we are planning for something different. I want to know that Dean can adapt again, for when Jack gets injured again (and he will), or for when Plan A isn't working - players like Wes and Davis are perfect for that, because they offer something different to Ollie. The last few games this season are such a rare opportunity to build for next year - I really hope we don't waste it.

I do think that it is a good thing that we've had Barkley this season, because the couple of times that he's made an impact (I'm struggling to think of any genuinely good performances, but he has made an impact on a few games) it's highlighted how good we can be with someone doing that job. Just imagine if we had someone doing that week in, week out. That has to be a priority for the summer, alongside upgrading the wingers.

I'm very optimistic about next season, with Dean in charge. He'll get backed again in the summer, and he always performs better after a long break - but in the summer, we need as much work as we needed last year, and then we need an even bigger improvement. If we're not challenging for the European spots by Christmas, i think we might need to look elsewhere, but by improving year on year, Dean has more than earned the right to have go to take us to the next level - he hasn't failed yet.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ez on April 26, 2021, 11:08:35 AM
			

			

				Last night was depressing while we were losing to relegation fodder. Even a draw is a bad result. For the first time I started to think Dean may not be at the club much longer. I'll be gutted for him if he has taken us as far as he can.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Damo70 on April 26, 2021, 11:39:45 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: LeeB on April 26, 2021, 10:58:08 AM
Quote from: Monty on April 26, 2021, 10:51:06 AM
I think Simeone is doomed to fail if he leaves the universe he's created in his image over there, and especially if he comes to England, as many people have remarked that his charisma is highly dependent on how he expresses himself in Spanish.

Yeah, but he's fucking cool and menacing. It's enough for me.

I think pound for pound Simeone has been the best coach in the world for several years and he would be my first choice by a million miles if we replaced Dean Smith.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on April 26, 2021, 12:01:36 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: LeeB on April 26, 2021, 10:58:08 AM
Quote from: Monty on April 26, 2021, 10:51:06 AM
I think Simeone is doomed to fail if he leaves the universe he's created in his image over there, and especially if he comes to England, as many people have remarked that his charisma is highly dependent on how he expresses himself in Spanish.

Yeah, but he's fucking cool and menacing. It's enough for me.

I’d choose to be on his side in any pub Brawl that’s for sure
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: danno on April 26, 2021, 12:05:26 PM
			

			

				I sometimes wish he would make changes earlier than the 70th minute.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Monty on April 26, 2021, 12:12:14 PM
			

			

				I am really concerned about our run-in though. Everton, United, Palace, Spurs and Chelsea is a pretty unkind few games, and if we fail to win any of them where will we finish, and how will that affect Dean's position in the minds of the owners?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on April 26, 2021, 12:24:49 PM
			

			

				Get Bielsa in for the laugh....That would cause a meltdown not just on Leeds forum but here aswell I think given the constant comparisons.

Grealish in his system would be incredible though.

DS will get next season but not too fussed on him eventually leaving as I doubt it would all fall down like a deck of cards as happened after O'Neill left (and Dean is far more honourable to leave 5 days before the season started for starters).

Really to me everything hinges on Grealish. We have to provide him with as much quality as possible while he remains here and I'm fearful what the post Grealish future will look like as it will happen eventually.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on April 26, 2021, 12:25:00 PM
			

			

				I think we're a couple of players short of a really good side.

Spurs have Kane and Son, Arsenal Pepe, Aubameyang and Lacazette, Man Utd have Greenwood, Rashford, Fernandez, Man City have well, pretty much everyone, and Liverpool have Salah, Firmino and Sane. They are all the sort of players we'd like to sign and that would make us better.

If you look at Leicester, they have Vardy, Iheanacho, Barnes and Maddison, Everton have got Rodriguez, Calvert-Lewin, Richarlison and Mina. 

West Ham have got Lingard and Soucek but other players doing well too like Cresswell.

We're pretty much all happy with our defence and keeper which is why I've tried to keep this to forward thinking players but the reality is we're behind all of those teams in terms of having the quality to make a real difference. Grealish is our one player like that and Watkins, in his first season in the top flight is proving to be so too.

Smith can only work with what he's got and I'm not sure many other managers would do any better.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on April 26, 2021, 12:29:03 PM
			

			

				Just got to sign some then.

I mentioned taking Neto from Wolves but he did his ACL. Saint Maximn would be exciting one with personality in final three but seems many think he's not any better than Bertrand Traore for some reason even though Newcastle stats with him in and out of the team in terms of points are very similar to Jack.

Last time we signed another prem team's best player was errr Charles N'zogiba. O.k scrub that, Darren Bent is better example so it's something we used to do a bit in the early years under Lerner as Downing was another and likes of Saint Maximn fit into that category.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Smithy on April 26, 2021, 12:31:57 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Drummond on April 26, 2021, 12:25:00 PM
I think we're a couple of players short of a really good side.

Spurs have Kane and Son, Arsenal Pepe, Aubameyang and Lacazette, Man Utd have Greenwood, Rashford, Fernandez, Man City have well, pretty much everyone, and Liverpool have Salah, Firmino and Sane. They are all the sort of players we'd like to sign and that would make us better.

If you look at Leicester, they have Vardy, Iheanacho, Barnes and Maddison, Everton have got Rodriguez, Calvert-Lewin, Richarlison and Mina. 

West Ham have got Lingard and Soucek but other players doing well too like Cresswell.

We're pretty much all happy with our defence and keeper which is why I've tried to keep this to forward thinking players but the reality is we're behind all of those teams in terms of having the quality to make a real difference. Grealish is our one player like that and Watkins, in his first season in the top flight is proving to be so too.

Smith can only work with what he's got and I'm not sure many other managers would do any better.

Agreed - a front three of Grealish-Watkins-"AN Other", where the AN Other is very pacy and has top-4 quality would make us a formidable attacking threat.  Not much depth up front though, and we need to improve the midfield too, but make our first-choice front three top 4 quality and I think the rest will follow.   

Maybe this is the transfer window for us to have our "Robinho moment", where finally make a signing that makes people stand up and take notice of what's happening at Villa park?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: jwarry on April 26, 2021, 12:34:54 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Monty on April 26, 2021, 12:12:14 PM
I am really concerned about our run-in though. Everton, United, Palace, Spurs and Chelsea is a pretty unkind few games, and if we fail to win any of them where will we finish, and how will that affect Dean's position in the minds of the owners?

Alternatively win them all and there is no problem 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on April 26, 2021, 12:35:46 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Smithy on April 26, 2021, 12:31:57 PM
Quote from: Drummond on April 26, 2021, 12:25:00 PM
I think we're a couple of players short of a really good side.

Spurs have Kane and Son, Arsenal Pepe, Aubameyang and Lacazette, Man Utd have Greenwood, Rashford, Fernandez, Man City have well, pretty much everyone, and Liverpool have Salah, Firmino and Sane. They are all the sort of players we'd like to sign and that would make us better.

If you look at Leicester, they have Vardy, Iheanacho, Barnes and Maddison, Everton have got Rodriguez, Calvert-Lewin, Richarlison and Mina. 

West Ham have got Lingard and Soucek but other players doing well too like Cresswell.

We're pretty much all happy with our defence and keeper which is why I've tried to keep this to forward thinking players but the reality is we're behind all of those teams in terms of having the quality to make a real difference. Grealish is our one player like that and Watkins, in his first season in the top flight is proving to be so too.

Smith can only work with what he's got and I'm not sure many other managers would do any better.

Agreed - a front three of Grealish-Watkins-"AN Other", where the AN Other is very pacy and has top-4 quality would make us a formidable attacking threat.  Not much depth up front though, and we need to improve the midfield too, but make our first-choice front three top 4 quality and I think the rest will follow.   

Maybe this is the transfer window for us to have our "Robinho moment", where finally make a signing that makes people stand up and take notice of what's happening at Villa park?

Funnily enough, I was thinking the same about Robinho last night. We tried with Barkley to lift things a bit but he's proven to not be the one we needed; need to try again. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on April 26, 2021, 12:37:38 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on April 26, 2021, 12:05:36 AM
I don't think they'll choose players to play in both. Clubs can refuse to release players for the Olympics and they'd probably feel justified in doing so if Brazil tried that. 

The Copa America runs June 13th to July 11th. Olympics is from July 21st to August 8th. The Premier League starts on 14th August. 

If I recall correctly, Dougie is the captain of the Brazil team that would play at the Olympics. I recall him being extremely excited at the thought of playing in Tokyo.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Brazilian Villain on April 26, 2021, 12:40:05 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: john e on April 26, 2021, 10:24:03 AM
I think Dean Smith has done a great job since he came

But my own personal view is he will not be good enough to build a team to take us into the top six...

I agree with this and the rest of your post. I also agree with Risso that there's no point switching for another 'okay' manager. I'm happy to let DS prove me wrong for another season but a poor remaining run-in and start to next season may hasten his demise.

I think we need to look at Chelsea. 'Club Legend' Frank was doing an okay job but there was a top class manager available in Tuchel and they showed no sentiment and made the change. That will likely make the difference between a Europa League spot and a CL spot for them this season and it's the way we have to start thinking if we wish to rejoin the 'elite'.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on April 26, 2021, 12:44:04 PM
			

			

				Us selling Milner and replacing him with Stephen Ireland and Spurs signing Van Der Vaart to add to likes of Modric and Bale was what pushed Spurs well ahead of us in 2010. All that happened in a matter of weeks and we were pretty much level pegging with them in the years before.

Now after over a decade it feels like we're not that far off them or Arsenal now, indeed the league table still indicates that so big chance over next few years to start finishing above those two if we can get the big deals right and Spurs will have to sell Kane before too long.

Do that and that should be europa league football so we're not that far away imo but then it's easier to get from 10th to 7th than 6th to 4th as we've seen many teams struggle to do that.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Smithy on April 26, 2021, 12:47:03 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Drummond on April 26, 2021, 12:35:46 PM
Quote from: Smithy on April 26, 2021, 12:31:57 PM
Quote from: Drummond on April 26, 2021, 12:25:00 PM
I think we're a couple of players short of a really good side.

Spurs have Kane and Son, Arsenal Pepe, Aubameyang and Lacazette, Man Utd have Greenwood, Rashford, Fernandez, Man City have well, pretty much everyone, and Liverpool have Salah, Firmino and Sane. They are all the sort of players we'd like to sign and that would make us better.

If you look at Leicester, they have Vardy, Iheanacho, Barnes and Maddison, Everton have got Rodriguez, Calvert-Lewin, Richarlison and Mina. 

West Ham have got Lingard and Soucek but other players doing well too like Cresswell.

We're pretty much all happy with our defence and keeper which is why I've tried to keep this to forward thinking players but the reality is we're behind all of those teams in terms of having the quality to make a real difference. Grealish is our one player like that and Watkins, in his first season in the top flight is proving to be so too.

Smith can only work with what he's got and I'm not sure many other managers would do any better.

Agreed - a front three of Grealish-Watkins-"AN Other", where the AN Other is very pacy and has top-4 quality would make us a formidable attacking threat.  Not much depth up front though, and we need to improve the midfield too, but make our first-choice front three top 4 quality and I think the rest will follow.   

Maybe this is the transfer window for us to have our "Robinho moment", where finally make a signing that makes people stand up and take notice of what's happening at Villa park?

Funnily enough, I was thinking the same about Robinho last night. We tried with Barkley to lift things a bit but he's proven to not be the one we needed; need to try again. 

Robinho was 24, Brazil's current golden boy, and in-demand from pretty much every club in the world when City signed him.  I don't see us getting someone quite of that calibre (guess that would a Jadon Sancho today?).  I think we're looking at the next level down, but I hope the next one isn't just someone who can't get a game for Chelsea or whoever their respective team is.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Brazilian Villain on April 26, 2021, 12:57:09 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: SoccerHQ on April 26, 2021, 12:44:04 PM
Now after over a decade it feels like we're not that far off them or Arsenal now, indeed the league table still indicates that so big chance over next few years to start finishing above those two if we can get the big deals right and Spurs will have to sell Kane before too long.

Do that and that should be europa league football so we're not that far away imo but then it's easier to get from 10th to 7th than 6th to 4th as we've seen many teams struggle to do that.

Agreed, really only see Citeh, Liverpool and Chelsea as streets ahead atm. Still not wholly convinced by Ole and Yanited despite them in 2nd. A couple of injuries to key players like Bruno Fernandes might see them regress next season.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: dave.woodhall on April 26, 2021, 12:57:31 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Brazilian Villain on April 26, 2021, 12:40:05 PM
Quote from: john e on April 26, 2021, 10:24:03 AM
I think Dean Smith has done a great job since he came

But my own personal view is he will not be good enough to build a team to take us into the top six...

I agree with this and the rest of your post. I also agree with Risso that there's no point switching for another 'okay' manager. I'm happy to let DS prove me wrong for another season but a poor remaining run-in and start to next season may hasten his demise.

I think we need to look at Chelsea. 'Club Legend' Frank was doing an okay job but there was a top class manager available in Tuchel and they showed no sentiment and made the change. That will likely make the difference between a Europa League spot and a CL spot for them this season and it's the way we have to start thinking if we wish to rejoin the 'elite'.

He wasn't good enough to get us up, keep us up or take us mid-table either. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Chris Smith on April 26, 2021, 12:58:18 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Brazilian Villain on April 26, 2021, 12:40:05 PM
Quote from: john e on April 26, 2021, 10:24:03 AM
I think Dean Smith has done a great job since he came

But my own personal view is he will not be good enough to build a team to take us into the top six...

I agree with this and the rest of your post. I also agree with Risso that there's no point switching for another 'okay' manager. I'm happy to let DS prove me wrong for another season but a poor remaining run-in and start to next season may hasten his demise.

I think we need to look at Chelsea. 'Club Legend' Frank was doing an okay job but there was a top class manager available in Tuchel and they showed no sentiment and made the change. That will likely make the difference between a Europa League spot and a CL spot for them this season and it's the way we have to start thinking if we wish to rejoin the 'elite'.

I’m not sure there is much more to be wrung out of this squad even by someone like Tuchel. I see the way to join the ‘elite’ is to have a squad of players of a comparable quality. If we get to that point then we’re comparing like for like with Dean and we’ll see how good he is.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on April 26, 2021, 01:01:02 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Monty on April 26, 2021, 12:12:14 PM
I am really concerned about our run-in though. Everton, United, Palace, Spurs and Chelsea is a pretty unkind few games, and if we fail to win any of them where will we finish, and how will that affect Dean's position in the minds of the owners?

On paper they look tough games but we seem to raise our game against the better sides. Somebody mentioned we should judge Dean over the whole season which normally I would wholly support, the problem is it hasn't been a normal season where we win one, lose another, it's been brilliant up until the new year and painful thereafter.

Last night there was a much needed small improvement. We need to build on it until the end of the season and I'd say the players owe it to Dean.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Brazilian Villain on April 26, 2021, 01:02:28 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: dave.woodhall on April 26, 2021, 12:57:31 PM
Quote from: Brazilian Villain on April 26, 2021, 12:40:05 PM
Quote from: john e on April 26, 2021, 10:24:03 AM
I think Dean Smith has done a great job since he came

But my own personal view is he will not be good enough to build a team to take us into the top six...

I agree with this and the rest of your post. I also agree with Risso that there's no point switching for another 'okay' manager. I'm happy to let DS prove me wrong for another season but a poor remaining run-in and start to next season may hasten his demise.

I think we need to look at Chelsea. 'Club Legend' Frank was doing an okay job but there was a top class manager available in Tuchel and they showed no sentiment and made the change. That will likely make the difference between a Europa League spot and a CL spot for them this season and it's the way we have to start thinking if we wish to rejoin the 'elite'.

He wasn't good enough to get us up, keep us up or take us mid-table either. 

We're well aware of your views on Dean and I said I'm happy enough to give him another season to prove me wrong. However his tactical inflexibility and tardy substitutions are a cause of frustration at times.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: dave.woodhall on April 26, 2021, 01:04:52 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Brazilian Villain on April 26, 2021, 01:02:28 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on April 26, 2021, 12:57:31 PM
Quote from: Brazilian Villain on April 26, 2021, 12:40:05 PM
Quote from: john e on April 26, 2021, 10:24:03 AM
I think Dean Smith has done a great job since he came

But my own personal view is he will not be good enough to build a team to take us into the top six...

I agree with this and the rest of your post. I also agree with Risso that there's no point switching for another 'okay' manager. I'm happy to let DS prove me wrong for another season but a poor remaining run-in and start to next season may hasten his demise.

I think we need to look at Chelsea. 'Club Legend' Frank was doing an okay job but there was a top class manager available in Tuchel and they showed no sentiment and made the change. That will likely make the difference between a Europa League spot and a CL spot for them this season and it's the way we have to start thinking if we wish to rejoin the 'elite'.

He wasn't good enough to get us up, keep us up or take us mid-table either. 

We're well aware of your views on Dean and I said I'm happy enough to give him another season to prove me wrong. However his tactical inflexibility and tardy substitutions are a cause of frustration at times.

That they may be, but virtually since the day he was appointed he's been achieving things that he's supposedly not good enough for.   
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on April 26, 2021, 01:32:07 PM
			

			

				Think Leicester is example we like to use as realistic club who have pushed into top 6 consistantly now with some really smart signings (and also knowing when to cash in on key players like Maguire and Chilwell).

This was their league position for the final game of Claude Puel two years ago:

https://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?topic=59028.12435

12th and that was with Vardy, Maguire, Schmiechel, Ndidi, Chilwell, Maddison Periera etc.

I think we're still a year away from that but does show their board thought they were underachieving under Puel and they went and got Rodgers who was actually in a job at the time and it's proved a brilliant decision.

I don't quite buy no other manager in world football would've just done the same things as Dean has in Jack's absence and given us the same record, I personally think a few would've kept us in the top 10 by winning another game or two by trying different stuff like 3 at the back or giving Davis many more minutes.

That's the nagging feeling I have about this season in that we've just given up on finishing top 10 a little too easily so up to DS to prove me wrong next season otherwise he will be under plenty of pressure this time next year.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Virgil Caine on April 26, 2021, 01:53:32 PM
			

			

				My only criticism of Dean Smith is around the lack of flexibility around playing formation, everything else I believe is perfectly OK. The key question would be the perception of other CEO's of clubs and whether or not if he came available if they would hire him. I believe Arsenal and Spurs would out of the 'top 6' then certainly Palace, Burnley , Newcastle, Brighton, Leeds potentially Everton and Leicester. Personal view only but perhaps a measure of his worth and qualities as a man-manager and coach.  
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Mister E on April 26, 2021, 01:56:50 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Chris Smith on April 26, 2021, 12:58:18 PM
I’m not sure there is much more to be wrung out of this squad even by someone like Tuchel. I see the way to join the ‘elite’ is to have a squad of players of a comparable quality. If we get to that point then we’re comparing like for like with Dean and we’ll see how good he is.
I wholly agree with your sentiment with the proviso that Traore, AEG, Barkley and McGinn may have more to be wrung from; and, the slightly two-dimensional tactical approach from Smith could be improved.
But your key point that his success should be viewed when the we're on a level playing field with the better sides is bang on.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on April 26, 2021, 02:23:52 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Smithy on April 26, 2021, 12:47:03 PM
Quote from: Drummond on April 26, 2021, 12:35:46 PM
Quote from: Smithy on April 26, 2021, 12:31:57 PM
Quote from: Drummond on April 26, 2021, 12:25:00 PM
I think we're a couple of players short of a really good side.

Spurs have Kane and Son, Arsenal Pepe, Aubameyang and Lacazette, Man Utd have Greenwood, Rashford, Fernandez, Man City have well, pretty much everyone, and Liverpool have Salah, Firmino and Sane. They are all the sort of players we'd like to sign and that would make us better.

If you look at Leicester, they have Vardy, Iheanacho, Barnes and Maddison, Everton have got Rodriguez, Calvert-Lewin, Richarlison and Mina. 

West Ham have got Lingard and Soucek but other players doing well too like Cresswell.

We're pretty much all happy with our defence and keeper which is why I've tried to keep this to forward thinking players but the reality is we're behind all of those teams in terms of having the quality to make a real difference. Grealish is our one player like that and Watkins, in his first season in the top flight is proving to be so too.

Smith can only work with what he's got and I'm not sure many other managers would do any better.

Agreed - a front three of Grealish-Watkins-"AN Other", where the AN Other is very pacy and has top-4 quality would make us a formidable attacking threat.  Not much depth up front though, and we need to improve the midfield too, but make our first-choice front three top 4 quality and I think the rest will follow.   

Maybe this is the transfer window for us to have our "Robinho moment", where finally make a signing that makes people stand up and take notice of what's happening at Villa park?

Funnily enough, I was thinking the same about Robinho last night. We tried with Barkley to lift things a bit but he's proven to not be the one we needed; need to try again. 

Robinho was 24, Brazil's current golden boy, and in-demand from pretty much every club in the world when City signed him.  I don't see us getting someone quite of that calibre (guess that would a Jadon Sancho today?).  I think we're looking at the next level down, but I hope the next one isn't just someone who can't get a game for Chelsea or whoever their respective team is.

Gouiri or Malen for me (but the latter will be hard to get, a lot of CL league teams have been linked with him, most recently Liverpool.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ad@m on April 26, 2021, 02:25:38 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Virgil Caine on April 26, 2021, 01:53:32 PM
My only criticism of Dean Smith is around the lack of flexibility around playing formation, everything else I believe is perfectly OK. The key question would be the perception of other CEO's of clubs and whether or not if he came available if they would hire him. I believe Arsenal and Spurs would out of the 'top 6' then certainly Palace, Burnley , Newcastle, Brighton, Leeds potentially Everton and Leicester. Personal view only but perhaps a measure of his worth and qualities as a man-manager and coach.  

I'm a Smith fan but there's not a chance any of Arsenal, Spurs, Leeds, Everton or Leicester would employ him as head coach.  That's not to say he's not good enough, he's just never won anything and those clubs recruit proven winners (with the exception of Arsenal's emotional decision to employ Arteta).
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on April 26, 2021, 02:30:06 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Ad@m on April 26, 2021, 02:25:38 PM
Quote from: Virgil Caine on April 26, 2021, 01:53:32 PM
My only criticism of Dean Smith is around the lack of flexibility around playing formation, everything else I believe is perfectly OK. The key question would be the perception of other CEO's of clubs and whether or not if he came available if they would hire him. I believe Arsenal and Spurs would out of the 'top 6' then certainly Palace, Burnley , Newcastle, Brighton, Leeds potentially Everton and Leicester. Personal view only but perhaps a measure of his worth and qualities as a man-manager and coach.  

I'm a Smith fan but there's not a chance any of Arsenal, Spurs, Leeds, Everton or Leicester would employ him as head coach.  That's not to say he's not good enough, he's just never won anything and those clubs recruit proven winners (with the exception of Arsenal's emotional decision to employ Arteta).

The bold bit is so badly wrong that I ignored the rest, Leeds have employed ONE good manager in the last 20 years, lets not go all sky and reinvent them as something other than a club that spent years cast adrift before chancing their arm on a manager which was a big risk and it working out better than anyone would've expected.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SheffieldVillain on April 26, 2021, 02:36:50 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Ad@m on April 26, 2021, 02:25:38 PM
Quote from: Virgil Caine on April 26, 2021, 01:53:32 PM
My only criticism of Dean Smith is around the lack of flexibility around playing formation, everything else I believe is perfectly OK. The key question would be the perception of other CEO's of clubs and whether or not if he came available if they would hire him. I believe Arsenal and Spurs would out of the 'top 6' then certainly Palace, Burnley , Newcastle, Brighton, Leeds potentially Everton and Leicester. Personal view only but perhaps a measure of his worth and qualities as a man-manager and coach.  

I'm a Smith fan but there's not a chance any of Arsenal, Spurs, Leeds, Everton or Leicester would employ him as head coach.  That's not to say he's not good enough, he's just never won anything and those clubs recruit proven winners (with the exception of Arsenal's emotional decision to employ Arteta).

While agreeing with your general point, Leeds are a strange club to pick to make it - their last five managers before Bielsa were Paul Heckingbottom, Thomas Christiansen, Garry Monk, Steve Evans and Uwe Rosler. In fact virtually every appointment they've made for 20 years bar Bielsa is the very opposite of recruiting a proven winner. 

Everton pretty similar to be honest pre-Ancelotti. Roberto Martinez (1 F.A. cup) and Mauro Silva (nothing) weren't proven winners when they were put in charge.

Edit - paul_e beat me to it!
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on April 26, 2021, 02:46:43 PM
			

			

				Leeds might have had a load of shit prior to Bielsa, but now they're back in the Premier League *with* Bielsa, it'd be hard to see them going for somebody like Smith when they find themselves needing a new coach.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on April 26, 2021, 02:50:47 PM
			

			

				Robinho equivilant would be Vinicius Jr. Real Madrid would've probably loaned him out before he scored twice v Liverpool. Rodrygo might be one to look at, started at the weekend for them but he hasn't played a huge amount under Zidane in recent times. Only 20 and wide player.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on April 26, 2021, 02:58:48 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on April 26, 2021, 02:46:43 PM
Leeds might have had a load of shit prior to Bielsa, but now they're back in the Premier League *with* Bielsa, it'd be hard to see them going for somebody like Smith when they find themselves needing a new coach.

I'm not sure that matters. We probably wouldn't have hired him if we'd been midtable in the premier league when we had a vacancy either but that doesn't change the fact that he's achieved all of his targets. The point was that the idea that they ONLY recruit proven winners. In fact I'd say every one of the clubs listed has been a mixed bag of recruitment Leicester had Claude Puel stinking the place out for 2 years before Rodgers, Arteta was a gamble on a former player, and Everton has been covered.

The best list club on that list for getting high profile managers with a decent reputation is Spurs but given they've just decided to let Ryan fucking Mason lead them in their only chance at silverware this season and to try to sneak them into the top 4 so they're just as bad.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: chrisw1 on April 26, 2021, 03:22:37 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: jwarry on April 26, 2021, 12:34:54 PM
Quote from: Monty on April 26, 2021, 12:12:14 PM
I am really concerned about our run-in though. Everton, United, Palace, Spurs and Chelsea is a pretty unkind few games, and if we fail to win any of them where will we finish, and how will that affect Dean's position in the minds of the owners?

Alternatively win them all and there is no problem 
Perhaps.  But given that we've only won 4 of our 20 games since Boxing Day, which do you think is the more likely scenerio?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: LeeB on April 26, 2021, 03:24:50 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: chrisw1 on April 26, 2021, 03:22:37 PM
Quote from: jwarry on April 26, 2021, 12:34:54 PM
Quote from: Monty on April 26, 2021, 12:12:14 PM
I am really concerned about our run-in though. Everton, United, Palace, Spurs and Chelsea is a pretty unkind few games, and if we fail to win any of them where will we finish, and how will that affect Dean's position in the minds of the owners?

Alternatively win them all and there is no problem 
Perhaps.  But given that we've only won 4 of our 20 games since Boxing Day, which do you think is the more likely scenerio?

The latter, innit? Law of averages says we'll go on a run soon.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Toronto Villa on April 26, 2021, 03:37:26 PM
			

			

				The timing of the sacking of Mourinho as opposed to the inevitable sacking of Mourinho is just a stunning piece of arrogance on the part of a club that has won fuck all for a very long time. They had it all lined up I imagine to fire him anyway as they proclaimed to everyone from the top of the world their admission into the greatest league ever. Only for them to end up without said greatest league ever, without a legendary manager, on the eve of a cup final with a 1/4 of the season left and not in a CL or even a Europa spot. Good luck to Ryan Mason. Whoever the fuck he is.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ad@m on April 26, 2021, 03:48:14 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: LeeB on April 26, 2021, 03:24:50 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on April 26, 2021, 03:22:37 PM
Quote from: jwarry on April 26, 2021, 12:34:54 PM
Quote from: Monty on April 26, 2021, 12:12:14 PM
I am really concerned about our run-in though. Everton, United, Palace, Spurs and Chelsea is a pretty unkind few games, and if we fail to win any of them where will we finish, and how will that affect Dean's position in the minds of the owners?

Alternatively win them all and there is no problem 
Perhaps.  But given that we've only won 4 of our 20 games since Boxing Day, which do you think is the more likely scenerio?

The latter, innit? Law of averages says we'll go on a run soon.

I think we irreversibly shattered the law of averages the season we went down!!!
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on April 26, 2021, 03:59:45 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Toronto Villa on April 26, 2021, 03:37:26 PM
The timing of the sacking of Mourinho as opposed to the inevitable sacking of Mourinho is just a stunning piece of arrogance on the part of a club that has won fuck all for a very long time. They had it all lined up I imagine to fire him anyway as they proclaimed to everyone from the top of the world their admission into the greatest league ever. Only for them to end up without said greatest league ever, without a legendary manager, on the eve of a cup final with a 1/4 of the season left and not in a CL or even a Europa spot. Good luck to Ryan Mason. Whoever the fuck he is.

Nah, I don't wish him good luck there. fuck them all.

He had to retire with a head injury and is still only 29 now. I think he came through with Kane. (so personally I hope he's ok but as for him with Spurs, nah, still fuck em).

Levy's spite and greed and getting rid of Mourinho even at the potential expense of his club and their fans, aligned to the Super League thing mean he can get to fuck too.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: eamonn on April 26, 2021, 04:07:20 PM
			

			

				I wonder was there a clause in Mourinho's contract making him more difficult/expensive to sack if he delivered a trophy.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on April 26, 2021, 04:31:12 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: dave.woodhall on April 26, 2021, 12:57:31 PM
Quote from: Brazilian Villain on April 26, 2021, 12:40:05 PM
Quote from: john e on April 26, 2021, 10:24:03 AM
I think Dean Smith has done a great job since he came

But my own personal view is he will not be good enough to build a team to take us into the top six...

I agree with this and the rest of your post. I also agree with Risso that there's no point switching for another 'okay' manager. I'm happy to let DS prove me wrong for another season but a poor remaining run-in and start to next season may hasten his demise.

I think we need to look at Chelsea. 'Club Legend' Frank was doing an okay job but there was a top class manager available in Tuchel and they showed no sentiment and made the change. That will likely make the difference between a Europa League spot and a CL spot for them this season and it's the way we have to start thinking if we wish to rejoin the 'elite'.

He wasn't good enough to get us up, keep us up or take us mid-table either. 

Quote from: dave.woodhall on April 26, 2021, 12:57:31 PM
Quote from: Brazilian Villain on April 26, 2021, 12:40:05 PM
Quote from: john e on April 26, 2021, 10:24:03 AM
I think Dean Smith has done a great job since he came

But my own personal view is he will not be good enough to build a team to take us into the top six...

I agree with this and the rest of your post. I also agree with Risso that there's no point switching for another 'okay' manager. I'm happy to let DS prove me wrong for another season but a poor remaining run-in and start to next season may hasten his demise.

I think we need to look at Chelsea. 'Club Legend' Frank was doing an okay job but there was a top class manager available in Tuchel and they showed no sentiment and made the change. That will likely make the difference between a Europa League spot and a CL spot for them this season and it's the way we have to start thinking if we wish to rejoin the 'elite'.

He wasn't good enough to get us up, keep us up or take us mid-table either. 


I can only speak for myself but I always thought he was going to be good enough to get us out of the championship
I was the one that said Bruce wasn’t good enough from the word go and got pelters for it from you and others 

If I’m honest I thought he underachieved last year escaping relegation by the skin of our teeth on the last day after playing some poor football for most of the season, well I expected more to be honest
So did the club really because they said so at the beginning of last season that we were not just there making up the numbers but were expecting big things ,Especially after all the money we spent

This season has been weird admittedly
First half of the season we played the best football we’ve seen in a decade
Second-half has been a damp squib
But that’s mainly because Grealish has been out and Smith has been found wanting

That’s where I am I’m not against Smith I support him I just don’t think he’s going to be good enough to get us into the top six
You and others disagree that’s fair enough






			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: TonyD on April 26, 2021, 05:21:14 PM
			

			

				Without Jack we pass it around for a while and the ball eventually ends up out wide  - where we generally deliver a poor cross into the box.

This seems to be the sum total of our tactics.  It would be nice if Dean could try something else.  
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on April 26, 2021, 05:27:01 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: TonyD on April 26, 2021, 05:21:14 PM
Without Jack we pass it around for a while and the ball eventually ends up out wide  - where we generally deliver a poor cross into the box.

This seems to be the sum total of our tactics.  It would be nice if Dean could try something else. 
Oh come on, there is the midfield player running towards our player with the ball, receives the pass and passes it straight back to him.
Terrific stuff.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on April 26, 2021, 05:44:13 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: TonyD on April 26, 2021, 05:21:14 PM
Without Jack we pass it around for a while and the ball eventually ends up out wide  - where we generally deliver a poor cross into the box.

This seems to be the sum total of our tactics.  It would be nice if Dean could try something else.  

The players could do their part too. There was one instance last night where our player received the ball out wide on the half way line and there wasn't a Villa player in a 30 foot radius offering the pass. Pathetic.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: TonyD on April 26, 2021, 05:49:32 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on April 26, 2021, 05:44:13 PM
Quote from: TonyD on April 26, 2021, 05:21:14 PM
Without Jack we pass it around for a while and the ball eventually ends up out wide  - where we generally deliver a poor cross into the box.

This seems to be the sum total of our tactics.  It would be nice if Dean could try something else.  

The players could do their part too. There was one instance last night where our player received the ball out wide on the half way line and there wasn't a Villa player in a 30 foot radius offering the pass. Pathetic.
Coaching.  Look at how other team’s players move off the ball to give options.   
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: brontebilly on April 26, 2021, 06:13:10 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: ChicagoLion on April 26, 2021, 05:27:01 PM
Quote from: TonyD on April 26, 2021, 05:21:14 PM
Without Jack we pass it around for a while and the ball eventually ends up out wide  - where we generally deliver a poor cross into the box.

This seems to be the sum total of our tactics.  It would be nice if Dean could try something else. 
Oh come on, there is the midfield player running towards our player with the ball, receives the pass and passes it straight back to him.
Terrific stuff.

Our first goal last night involved two back heels in the build up, was one of our best moves of the season! Watkins movement inside the box doesn't match his movement outside it for me. On the rare occasion the ball comes in quickly, he is often caught on his heels. Case in point being in the first half yesterday, Traore put a low quick cross in with his right foot that went through the box with noone touching it. Watkins was waiting around outside the box for some reason. Whoever is playing number ten and the winger on the opposite flank should be getting in there. 

I guess when Jack is there, he drags defenders towards him and makes the right decision on the ball most of the time. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on April 26, 2021, 06:18:31 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: paul_e on April 26, 2021, 02:58:48 PM
Quote from: Risso on April 26, 2021, 02:46:43 PM
Leeds might have had a load of shit prior to Bielsa, but now they're back in the Premier League *with* Bielsa, it'd be hard to see them going for somebody like Smith when they find themselves needing a new coach.

I'm not sure that matters. We probably wouldn't have hired him if we'd been midtable in the premier league when we had a vacancy either but that doesn't change the fact that he's achieved all of his targets. The point was that the idea that they ONLY recruit proven winners. In fact I'd say every one of the clubs listed has been a mixed bag of recruitment Leicester had Claude Puel stinking the place out for 2 years before Rodgers, Arteta was a gamble on a former player, and Everton has been covered.

The best list club on that list for getting high profile managers with a decent reputation is Spurs but given they've just decided to let Ryan fucking Mason lead them in their only chance at silverware this season and to try to sneak them into the top 4 so they're just as bad.

None of that means that any of them would give Dean Smith the time of day though.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Toronto Villa on April 26, 2021, 06:20:31 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Drummond on April 26, 2021, 03:59:45 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on April 26, 2021, 03:37:26 PM
The timing of the sacking of Mourinho as opposed to the inevitable sacking of Mourinho is just a stunning piece of arrogance on the part of a club that has won fuck all for a very long time. They had it all lined up I imagine to fire him anyway as they proclaimed to everyone from the top of the world their admission into the greatest league ever. Only for them to end up without said greatest league ever, without a legendary manager, on the eve of a cup final with a 1/4 of the season left and not in a CL or even a Europa spot. Good luck to Ryan Mason. Whoever the fuck he is.

Nah, I don't wish him good luck there. fuck them all.

He had to retire with a head injury and is still only 29 now. I think he came through with Kane. (so personally I hope he's ok but as for him with Spurs, nah, still fuck em).

Levy's spite and greed and getting rid of Mourinho even at the potential expense of his club and their fans, aligned to the Super League thing mean he can get to fuck too.

My best wishes to Ryan Mason was very much tongue in cheek. He’s done in a few weeks too. Spurs are a disaster relative to where they should be. But no doubt some will still see Levy as the master negotiator. How’s that Bale deal going?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: nigel on April 26, 2021, 07:11:52 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: brontebilly on April 26, 2021, 06:13:10 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on April 26, 2021, 05:27:01 PM
Quote from: TonyD on April 26, 2021, 05:21:14 PM
Without Jack we pass it around for a while and the ball eventually ends up out wide  - where we generally deliver a poor cross into the box.

This seems to be the sum total of our tactics.  It would be nice if Dean could try something else. 
Oh come on, there is the midfield player running towards our player with the ball, receives the pass and passes it straight back to him.
Terrific stuff.

Our first goal last night involved two back heels in the build up, was one of our best moves of the season! Watkins movement inside the box doesn't match his movement outside it for me. On the rare occasion the ball comes in quickly, he is often caught on his heels. Case in point being in the first half yesterday, Traore put a low quick cross in with his right foot that went through the box with noone touching it. Watkins was waiting around outside the box for some reason. Whoever is playing number ten and the winger on the opposite flank should be getting in there. 

I guess when Jack is there, he drags defenders towards him and makes the right decision on the ball most of the time.

Ollie mentioned in a recent interview that that is part of his game he’s looking to improve on.

He was saying that the 3 players he watches most, to try and emulate, are Kane, Lewandowski (?) and C. Ronaldo. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Meanwood Villa on April 26, 2021, 07:25:56 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: chrisw1 on April 26, 2021, 03:22:37 PM
Quote from: jwarry on April 26, 2021, 12:34:54 PM
Quote from: Monty on April 26, 2021, 12:12:14 PM
I am really concerned about our run-in though. Everton, United, Palace, Spurs and Chelsea is a pretty unkind few games, and if we fail to win any of them where will we finish, and how will that affect Dean's position in the minds of the owners?

Alternatively win them all and there is no problem 
Perhaps.  But given that we've only won 4 of our 20 games since Boxing Day, which do you think is the more likely scenerio?

It's 5 out of 19. Unless you're counting the cup game which I don't really think counts in the circumstances. Not much better but let's be accurate at least.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on April 26, 2021, 07:31:28 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on April 26, 2021, 06:18:31 PM
Quote from: paul_e on April 26, 2021, 02:58:48 PM
Quote from: Risso on April 26, 2021, 02:46:43 PM
Leeds might have had a load of shit prior to Bielsa, but now they're back in the Premier League *with* Bielsa, it'd be hard to see them going for somebody like Smith when they find themselves needing a new coach.

I'm not sure that matters. We probably wouldn't have hired him if we'd been midtable in the premier league when we had a vacancy either but that doesn't change the fact that he's achieved all of his targets. The point was that the idea that they ONLY recruit proven winners. In fact I'd say every one of the clubs listed has been a mixed bag of recruitment Leicester had Claude Puel stinking the place out for 2 years before Rodgers, Arteta was a gamble on a former player, and Everton has been covered.

The best list club on that list for getting high profile managers with a decent reputation is Spurs but given they've just decided to let Ryan fucking Mason lead them in their only chance at silverware this season and to try to sneak them into the top 4 so they're just as bad.

None of that means that any of them would give Dean Smith the time of day though.

Nope, but he's a villa fan, with villa connections, just like Arteta had arsenal connections that made up for his lack of a CV and Mason has Tottenham connection to make up for his.

Whether other clubs in the league would take him if he was available is a meaningless argument right now and ignores far too many factors to be worth considering. Would we have looked at him if we'd been midtable in the premier league with a top 6 quality squad, probably not but that didn't stop him being the right man when he was appointed and doesn't stop the fact that he currently has a premier league mid-table squad playing at a premier mid-table level. He isn't under or over-achieving at this point, he's doing what's expected of him and on that basis the only reason to change him would be if we were sure we could get a manager who could a better job with this squad.

I know all of the arguments about the poor run we've bene on and I understand them all but I just don't think right now is the time to be talking about a replacement (unless a manager with proven pedigree makes it clear he wants to join). I'd hate for us to sack him thinking we can get someone better and us ending up hiring some no-mark from the merry-go-round because we'd not thought about what happens next.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on April 26, 2021, 07:38:16 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: paul_e on April 26, 2021, 07:31:28 PM

I know all of the arguments about the poor run we've bene on and I understand them all but I just don't think right now is the time to be talking about a replacement (unless a manager with proven pedigree makes it clear he wants to join). I'd hate for us to sack him thinking we can get someone better and us ending up hiring some no-mark from the merry-go-round because we'd not thought about what happens next.

I think the chance of that happening with the current owners is precisely zero.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on April 26, 2021, 07:40:37 PM
			

			

				It is very difficult trying to get the right man for the job
Dean Smith was the right man whether he is the man to take us forward to higher realms no one knows but we all surmise

I would have probably turned my nose up at Brendan Rodgers when he was at Celtic
However now realise he is a top category manager
Who would’ve thought David Moyes would be challenging for Champions League this Season
Yet he is,
 I personally Think it’s a one off, But who knows
I still wouldn’t swap him for Dean Smith though

I’m saying this because getting the right manager is not an exact science
Sometimes managers just fit a club at The right time
And when they move on they can’t repeat their success

My view on Dean Smith is he has been great so far but has a ceiling
Doesn’t mean I’m right though, Just what I think right now from what I’ve seen so far




			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: AV82EC on April 26, 2021, 07:58:52 PM
			

			

				I'd say the issue with Brendan Rogers isn't so much he isn't a good manager, I just don't see him being able to make that final leap of actually winning something. Added to which I think he's an unctuous smug git who thinks he's way better than he actually is and at times that shows in his tactical selections which show he's too clever for his own good. I don't think he came across at all well in that Liverpool documentary a few years back.

Tomorrow on the programme, Sir Alex Ferguson, why he wasn't all that......(this is a joke) 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: LeeB on April 26, 2021, 08:15:26 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: AV82EC on April 26, 2021, 07:58:52 PM
I'd say the issue with Brendan Rogers isn't so much he isn't a good manager, I just don't see him being able to make that final leap of actually winning something. Added to which I think he's an unctuous smug git who thinks he's way better than he actually is and at times that shows in his tactical selections which show he's too clever for his own good. I don't think he came across at all well in that Liverpool documentary a few years back.

Tomorrow on the programme, Sir Alex Ferguson, why he wasn't all that......(this is a joke) 

He may have tactical weaknesses, and he can come across as a prick, but he sure as shit knows how to get a side playing as a team and looking like they've been properly coached.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on April 26, 2021, 08:19:33 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on April 26, 2021, 07:38:16 PM
Quote from: paul_e on April 26, 2021, 07:31:28 PM

I know all of the arguments about the poor run we've bene on and I understand them all but I just don't think right now is the time to be talking about a replacement (unless a manager with proven pedigree makes it clear he wants to join). I'd hate for us to sack him thinking we can get someone better and us ending up hiring some no-mark from the merry-go-round because we'd not thought about what happens next.

I think the chance of that happening with the current owners is precisely zero.
Having invested hundreds of millions they are pretty unlikely to say Chris Hutchings come on down.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on April 26, 2021, 09:12:35 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: AV82EC on April 26, 2021, 07:58:52 PM
I'd say the issue with Brendan Rogers isn't so much he isn't a good manager, I just don't see him being able to make that final leap of actually winning something. Added to which I think he's an unctuous smug git who thinks he's way better than he actually is and at times that shows in his tactical selections which show he's too clever for his own good. I don't think he came across at all well in that Liverpool documentary a few years back.


Winning something is actually very hard though. Other than Leicester's completely unexpected win, the Premier League has only been won by 4 teams in the last 17 years, and only one of those was Liverpool, with Man City, Man U and Chelsea hoovering up all the others.  Add in Man City's complete dominanace of the League Cup, and just getting in the top four for a club like Leicester is exceptionally good going. I wouldn't turn my nose up at either Rodgers or Pochettino, neither of whom have won anything worth talking about.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on April 26, 2021, 09:51:31 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Toronto Villa on April 26, 2021, 06:20:31 PM
Quote from: Drummond on April 26, 2021, 03:59:45 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on April 26, 2021, 03:37:26 PM
The timing of the sacking of Mourinho as opposed to the inevitable sacking of Mourinho is just a stunning piece of arrogance on the part of a club that has won fuck all for a very long time. They had it all lined up I imagine to fire him anyway as they proclaimed to everyone from the top of the world their admission into the greatest league ever. Only for them to end up without said greatest league ever, without a legendary manager, on the eve of a cup final with a 1/4 of the season left and not in a CL or even a Europa spot. Good luck to Ryan Mason. Whoever the fuck he is.

Nah, I don't wish him good luck there. fuck them all.

He had to retire with a head injury and is still only 29 now. I think he came through with Kane. (so personally I hope he's ok but as for him with Spurs, nah, still fuck em).

Levy's spite and greed and getting rid of Mourinho even at the potential expense of his club and their fans, aligned to the Super League thing mean he can get to fuck too.

My best wishes to Ryan Mason was very much tongue in cheek. He’s done in a few weeks too. Spurs are a disaster relative to where they should be. But no doubt some will still see Levy as the master negotiator. How’s that Bale deal going?

Oh I know, I just wanted a rant. 😁 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on April 26, 2021, 11:47:44 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: AV82EC on April 26, 2021, 07:58:52 PM
I'd say the issue with Brendan Rogers isn't so much he isn't a good manager, I just don't see him being able to make that final leap of actually winning something. Added to which I think he's an unctuous smug git who thinks he's way better than he actually is and at times that shows in his tactical selections which show he's too clever for his own good. I don't think he came across at all well in that Liverpool documentary a few years back.

Tomorrow on the programme, Sir Alex Ferguson, why he wasn't all that......(this is a joke) 

Look where Leicester were at the time though when they appointed him in March 2019, a very similar position to us so it's been nothing but a masterstroke from imo the best ownership in the premier league.

Not saying we have to do that anytime soon as Leicester were less than 3 years winning the league in 2019 and so had different expectations but just shows a club that knew it had some really good players and weren't content to just tread water in 10th-12th and wanted to do something seriously about it and it's paid off nicely.

Rodgers will have a pretty good chance to finally win a trophy in English football in a few weeks aswell as securing top 4.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: brontebilly on April 26, 2021, 11:54:23 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on April 26, 2021, 09:12:35 PM
Quote from: AV82EC on April 26, 2021, 07:58:52 PM
I'd say the issue with Brendan Rogers isn't so much he isn't a good manager, I just don't see him being able to make that final leap of actually winning something. Added to which I think he's an unctuous smug git who thinks he's way better than he actually is and at times that shows in his tactical selections which show he's too clever for his own good. I don't think he came across at all well in that Liverpool documentary a few years back.


Winning something is actually very hard though. Other than Leicester's completely unexpected win, the Premier League has only been won by 4 teams in the last 17 years, and only one of those was Liverpool, with Man City, Man U and Chelsea hoovering up all the others.  Add in Man City's complete dominanace of the League Cup, and just getting in the top four for a club like Leicester is exceptionally good going. I wouldn't turn my nose up at either Rodgers or Pochettino, neither of whom have won anything worth talking about.

Are the domestic cups that relevant any longer? Champions league football surely trumps it these days unfortunately. Rodgers Leicester bottled what seemed a nailed on CL place last season with a Devon loch type collapse. Will hardly make the same mistake this season, finally has gone a tune out of Ihenacho. Would Leicester take an FA Cup trophy over CL football, I doubt it 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: eamonn on April 27, 2021, 01:48:13 AM
			

			

				Domestic cups will always be relevant to most of us on here, and I daresay most Villa fans. Even the young'uns who've seen the competitions be devalued. It's a great memory to have, it's an honour to add to the prestige of the club and realistically it's the best shot of glory 80% of top-flight clubs get each season.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Three Spires Villa on April 27, 2021, 07:56:30 AM
			

			

				Well I would rather finish 8th and win the league than finish 8th and not win the league cup. Domestic cups are very important.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: dave shelley on April 27, 2021, 08:36:23 AM
			

			

				My opinion is that the domestic cup competition are extremely important, not just for entry into European competition and the finances it can generate but for us fans.  They break up the season and if your team is struggling; a good cup run can inspire confidence and a lift.  Sadly, we were all in with a chance of winning one once, now it's pretty much monopolised.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on April 27, 2021, 08:49:08 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: SoccerHQ on April 26, 2021, 11:47:44 PM
Quote from: AV82EC on April 26, 2021, 07:58:52 PM
I'd say the issue with Brendan Rogers isn't so much he isn't a good manager, I just don't see him being able to make that final leap of actually winning something. Added to which I think he's an unctuous smug git who thinks he's way better than he actually is and at times that shows in his tactical selections which show he's too clever for his own good. I don't think he came across at all well in that Liverpool documentary a few years back.

Tomorrow on the programme, Sir Alex Ferguson, why he wasn't all that......(this is a joke) 

Look where Leicester were at the time though when they appointed him in March 2019, a very similar position to us so it's been nothing but a masterstroke from imo the best ownership in the premier league.

Not saying we have to do that anytime soon as Leicester were less than 3 years winning the league in 2019 and so had different expectations but just shows a club that knew it had some really good players and weren't content to just tread water in 10th-12th and wanted to do something seriously about it and it's paid off nicely.

Rodgers will have a pretty good chance to finally win a trophy in English football in a few weeks aswell as securing top 4.

You've missed the pretty important aspect that, whilst they were mid-table, they had a recent premier league winners medal and had champions league experience.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Neil Hawkes on April 27, 2021, 09:35:45 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: brontebilly on April 26, 2021, 06:13:10 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on April 26, 2021, 05:27:01 PM
Quote from: TonyD on April 26, 2021, 05:21:14 PM
Without Jack we pass it around for a while and the ball eventually ends up out wide  - where we generally deliver a poor cross into the box.

This seems to be the sum total of our tactics.  It would be nice if Dean could try something else. 
Oh come on, there is the midfield player running towards our player with the ball, receives the pass and passes it straight back to him.
Terrific stuff.

Our first goal last night involved two back heels in the build up, was one of our best moves of the season! Watkins movement inside the box doesn't match his movement outside it for me. On the rare occasion the ball comes in quickly, he is often caught on his heels. Case in point being in the first half yesterday, Traore put a low quick cross in with his right foot that went through the box with noone touching it. Watkins was waiting around outside the box for some reason. Whoever is playing number ten and the winger on the opposite flank should be getting in there. 

I guess when Jack is there, he drags defenders towards him and makes the right decision on the ball most of the time. 
Probably due to the offside decisions that have gone against him this year, when most have us thought he was leading the line brilliantly but for VAR to decide otherwise; you can bet yer arse most of those decisions have never gone against him during his career nor in the championship. Conclusion is he may be adjusting to the new offside lines that have been drawn and the runs he needs to make to stay onside with millimetric scrutiny.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on April 27, 2021, 09:42:54 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Neil Hawkes on April 27, 2021, 09:35:45 AM
Quote from: brontebilly on April 26, 2021, 06:13:10 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on April 26, 2021, 05:27:01 PM
Quote from: TonyD on April 26, 2021, 05:21:14 PM
Without Jack we pass it around for a while and the ball eventually ends up out wide  - where we generally deliver a poor cross into the box.

This seems to be the sum total of our tactics.  It would be nice if Dean could try something else. 
Oh come on, there is the midfield player running towards our player with the ball, receives the pass and passes it straight back to him.
Terrific stuff.

Our first goal last night involved two back heels in the build up, was one of our best moves of the season! Watkins movement inside the box doesn't match his movement outside it for me. On the rare occasion the ball comes in quickly, he is often caught on his heels. Case in point being in the first half yesterday, Traore put a low quick cross in with his right foot that went through the box with noone touching it. Watkins was waiting around outside the box for some reason. Whoever is playing number ten and the winger on the opposite flank should be getting in there. 

I guess when Jack is there, he drags defenders towards him and makes the right decision on the ball most of the time. 
Probably due to the offside decisions that have gone against him this year, when most have us thought he was leading the line brilliantly but for VAR to decide otherwise; you can bet yer arse most of those decisions have never gone against him during his career nor in the championship. Conclusion is he may be adjusting to the new offside lines that have been drawn and the runs he needs to make to stay onside with millimetric scrutiny.

Agreed, his movement in the box was exceptional in the first half of the season but he does seem to be hanging back slightly now in what looks like an effort to ensure he's onside.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on April 27, 2021, 09:46:56 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: paul_e on April 27, 2021, 09:42:54 AM

Agreed, his movement in the box was exceptional in the first half of the season but he does seem to be hanging back slightly now in what looks like an effort to ensure he's onside.

A symptom of the general lack of confidence throughout the team. Martinez is the same, start of the season he was setting up quick attack after quick attack with some sublime throws to players. Now he hangs on to the ball before usually just punting it long.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: brontebilly on April 27, 2021, 09:49:05 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: dave shelley on April 27, 2021, 08:36:23 AM
My opinion is that the domestic cup competition are extremely important, not just for entry into European competition and the finances it can generate but for us fans.  They break up the season and if your team is struggling; a good cup run can inspire confidence and a lift.  Sadly, we were all in with a chance of winning one once, now it's pretty much monopolised.

Our run to the league cup final last season didn't inspire confidence all that much, despite a decent display in the final against a much superior side. 

There seems to be a lot of indifference to the Europa league these days too for most clubs. Leicester didn't play a particularly strong side when they went out, if I recall correctly. 

It seemed an odd one for pundits to have a go at Pochetino, that he hasn't delivered a trophy at Spurs. I'm sure Levy was more than happy with regular CL football including a final appearance. Juande Ramos won a league cup for them but didn't last pissing time afterwards. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: jwarry on April 27, 2021, 09:50:49 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Three Spires Villa on April 27, 2021, 07:56:30 AM
Well I would rather finish 8th and win the league than finish 8th and not win the league cup. Domestic cups are very important.

I think I know what you mean
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on April 27, 2021, 10:00:08 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: brontebilly on April 27, 2021, 09:49:05 AM
Quote from: dave shelley on April 27, 2021, 08:36:23 AM
My opinion is that the domestic cup competition are extremely important, not just for entry into European competition and the finances it can generate but for us fans.  They break up the season and if your team is struggling; a good cup run can inspire confidence and a lift.  Sadly, we were all in with a chance of winning one once, now it's pretty much monopolised.

Our run to the league cup final last season didn't inspire confidence all that much, despite a decent display in the final against a much superior side. 

There seems to be a lot of indifference to the Europa league these days too for most clubs. Leicester didn't play a particularly strong side when they went out, if I recall correctly. 

It seemed an odd one for pundits to have a go at Pochetino, that he hasn't delivered a trophy at Spurs. I'm sure Levy was more than happy with regular CL football including a final appearance. Juande Ramos won a league cup for them but didn't last pissing time afterwards.
Read a good article about Levy today and the problems he faces.
The 800million + debt.
The future of Kane
Replacing the Manager.

He can help the debt by selling Kane but even that will not allow  huge spending on the squad. 
Attracting a top manager with a limited Budget might not be that easy.

Feel sorry for him :)
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Baldy on April 27, 2021, 11:05:05 AM
			

			

				Despite the last three months, I think Deano is still in credit for past achievements but that credit is waning.

Everything he says and does is very measured and he is the epitome of a 'cool head'.

I just wish he showed more anger in defeat and when necessary, was more ruthless. To a degree, some of our players have been in holiday mode for a number of weeks and Deano should be throwing the hair dryer at them. We want a manager who is angry at any defeat, players who will not tolerate defeat and supporters who are not so forgiving.

Many of us have excused the last 3 months, 'we have improved though'. Blah, blah, blah. Some players have clearly noted this and have taken the foot off the accelerator.

Not good enough. We are one of the richest clubs in the world and should start acting like it. We need a complete change of mentality. We want more Targetts and less Barkley's and Traore's. Personally, I would have substituted some of our players after 20 minutes, yet alone, 80 minutes!!

I think Deano has to toughen up and change the mentality throughout the whole club. Nice guys do not last long in this industry. Deano's clock is clicking.  ::)
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: AV82EC on April 27, 2021, 11:08:13 AM
			

			

				If you read the Accounts thread you'll find we are far from one of the richest clubs in the world, we have incredibly wealthy owners but those two things are totally different whilst UEFA and FA FFP rules remain in place.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ad@m on April 27, 2021, 11:12:44 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: AV82EC on April 27, 2021, 11:08:13 AM
If you read the Accounts thread you'll find we are far from one of the richest clubs in the world, we have incredibly wealthy owners but those two things are totally different whilst UEFA and FA FFP rules remain in place.

Precisely, which is why patience is the word of the day and any talk of Smith underachieving because he's not turned a team that survived relegation by the skin of its teeth less than a year ago in to challenging for Europe now is just daft.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on April 27, 2021, 11:15:34 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: ChicagoLion on April 27, 2021, 10:00:08 AM
Quote from: brontebilly on April 27, 2021, 09:49:05 AM
Quote from: dave shelley on April 27, 2021, 08:36:23 AM
My opinion is that the domestic cup competition are extremely important, not just for entry into European competition and the finances it can generate but for us fans.  They break up the season and if your team is struggling; a good cup run can inspire confidence and a lift.  Sadly, we were all in with a chance of winning one once, now it's pretty much monopolised.

Our run to the league cup final last season didn't inspire confidence all that much, despite a decent display in the final against a much superior side. 

There seems to be a lot of indifference to the Europa league these days too for most clubs. Leicester didn't play a particularly strong side when they went out, if I recall correctly. 

It seemed an odd one for pundits to have a go at Pochetino, that he hasn't delivered a trophy at Spurs. I'm sure Levy was more than happy with regular CL football including a final appearance. Juande Ramos won a league cup for them but didn't last pissing time afterwards.
Read a good article about Levy today and the problems he faces.
The 800million + debt.
The future of Kane
Replacing the Manager.

He can help the debt by selling Kane but even that will not allow  huge spending on the squad. 
Attracting a top manager with a limited Budget might not be that easy.

Feel sorry for him :)

I agree! The only thing going for him is that matchday revenues will soar for them when fans are allowed back in.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on April 27, 2021, 11:19:04 AM
			

			

				It's also why the proposals for the stadium are so important. Right now it works well as an arena to watch matches but fails as a commercial income generator, fixing that is the biggest requirement if we want to challenge at the top of the table, our income is a quarter of the teams we'd need to be competing with which is very limiting to what we can reasonably do with the squad.

Keeping Grealish and cashing in on his marketability will be useful as well.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Baldy on April 27, 2021, 11:21:13 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: AV82EC on April 27, 2021, 11:08:13 AM
If you read the Accounts thread you'll find we are far from one of the richest clubs in the world, we have incredibly wealthy owners but those two things are totally different whilst UEFA and FA FFP rules remain in place.

You are correct Sir. I should have said owners.

The fact our owners have already invested 200m plus tells me they are very serious about elevating Villa to the higher echelon. Under the current climate, any new money is welcome in football and hopefully FFP will reflect that.

If not, our owners paid 200m plus for mid table mediocrity. I am positive that is not their long term plan. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: chrisw1 on April 27, 2021, 11:24:45 AM
			

			

				Aren't match day revenues pretty much a drop in the ocean nowadays, certainly compared to TV money etc anyway. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: AV82EC on April 27, 2021, 11:27:10 AM
			

			

				Without taking this off topic from Dean Smith, yes Matchday revenues are the smallest of the three pillars of revenue these days for football clubs, dwarfed by Commercial and Media.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on April 27, 2021, 11:33:26 AM
			

			

				So why did Spurs, Arsenal et al spend so much on new stadia?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: CT on April 27, 2021, 11:43:03 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: ChicagoLion on April 27, 2021, 10:00:08 AM
Quote from: brontebilly on April 27, 2021, 09:49:05 AM
Quote from: dave shelley on April 27, 2021, 08:36:23 AM
My opinion is that the domestic cup competition are extremely important, not just for entry into European competition and the finances it can generate but for us fans.  They break up the season and if your team is struggling; a good cup run can inspire confidence and a lift.  Sadly, we were all in with a chance of winning one once, now it's pretty much monopolised.

Our run to the league cup final last season didn't inspire confidence all that much, despite a decent display in the final against a much superior side. 

There seems to be a lot of indifference to the Europa league these days too for most clubs. Leicester didn't play a particularly strong side when they went out, if I recall correctly. 

It seemed an odd one for pundits to have a go at Pochetino, that he hasn't delivered a trophy at Spurs. I'm sure Levy was more than happy with regular CL football including a final appearance. Juande Ramos won a league cup for them but didn't last pissing time afterwards.
Read a good article about Levy today and the problems he faces.
The 800million + debt.
The future of Kane
Replacing the Manager.

He can help the debt by selling Kane but even that will not allow  huge spending on the squad. 
Attracting a top manager with a limited Budget might not be that easy.

Feel sorry for him :)

Let’s help them out by buying Harry Kane and offering Neil Taylor as part of the deal. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Monty on April 27, 2021, 11:49:24 AM
			

			

				Harry Kane is magnificent, but I think I'd prefer Son. Offer them £3m and Keinan Davis.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: TonyD on April 27, 2021, 11:50:58 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Ad@m on April 27, 2021, 11:12:44 AM
Quote from: AV82EC on April 27, 2021, 11:08:13 AM
If you read the Accounts thread you'll find we are far from one of the richest clubs in the world, we have incredibly wealthy owners but those two things are totally different whilst UEFA and FA FFP rules remain in place.
 

Precisely, which is why patience is the word of the day and any talk of Smith underachieving because he's not turned a team that survived relegation by the skin of its teeth less than a year ago in to challenging for Europe now is just daft.
But we are not currently challenging for Europe.  Our recent form without Jack is relegation form.   Players are underperforming and we look devoid of ideas.  
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on April 27, 2021, 12:06:02 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Monty on April 27, 2021, 11:49:24 AM
Harry Kane is magnificent, but I think I'd prefer Son. Offer them £3m and Keinan Davis.

That's an insult, there's no way Davis is only worth that. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: eamonn on April 27, 2021, 12:07:07 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on April 27, 2021, 11:33:26 AM
So why did Spurs, Arsenal et al spend so much on new stadia?

Corporate boxes/sponsors.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on April 27, 2021, 12:08:48 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: eamonn on April 27, 2021, 12:07:07 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on April 27, 2021, 11:33:26 AM
So why did Spurs, Arsenal et al spend so much on new stadia?

Corporate boxes/sponsors.

Exactly, it's all inextricably linked.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on April 27, 2021, 01:00:45 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Drummond on April 27, 2021, 12:08:48 PM
Quote from: eamonn on April 27, 2021, 12:07:07 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on April 27, 2021, 11:33:26 AM
So why did Spurs, Arsenal et al spend so much on new stadia?

Corporate boxes/sponsors.

Exactly, it's all inextricably linked.

Yep, for the future of the club that side off things is more important than increasing the capacity. We'll do both but expect to see plans for 50k-ish but doubling or trebling the available commercial facilities.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on April 27, 2021, 01:43:19 PM
			

			

				The prices at Spurs are mental. Got talking to a Spurs fan at their new place when we played them there last season. He'd paid £80K for two ten year season tickets for him and his son. It was in a nicer bit of the ground, but all you got extra for that was the opportunity to queue up in a slightly nicer bar. I think that's towards the cheaper end of the premium seats, of which there's something like 10,000 seats as well. They have their 'H' club or something similar, where it's £30K membership and £15K a season.  That sort of cash soon mounts up, well it will do when fans are allowed back.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: chrisw1 on April 27, 2021, 02:38:44 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on April 27, 2021, 01:43:19 PM
The prices at Spurs are mental. Got talking to a Spurs fan at their new place when we played them there last season. He'd paid £80K for two ten year season tickets for him and his son. It was in a nicer bit of the ground, but all you got extra for that was the opportunity to queue up in a slightly nicer bar. I think that's towards the cheaper end of the premium seats, of which there's something like 10,000 seats as well. They have their 'H' club or something similar, where it's £30K membership and £15K a season.  That sort of cash soon mounts up, well it will do when fans are allowed back.
That's crazy.  I can't help thinking we'd struggle to sell those type of exclusive packages.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Villan82 on April 27, 2021, 02:45:04 PM
			

			

				How did they re-invent bloody Spurs, of all clubs, as a big club?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ad@m on April 27, 2021, 02:58:42 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Villan82 on April 27, 2021, 02:45:04 PM
How did they re-invent bloody Spurs, of all clubs, as a big club?

It is incredible, and I know it's a well trodden path, but being in London is a massive advantage when it comes to getting rich people and/or tourists to part with silly money to watch a game of football.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: dave.woodhall on April 27, 2021, 03:11:50 PM
			

			

				When the Emirates was built Arsenal had the biggest matchday income in the world and they still have supporters who will happily pay thousands for season tickets they'll use six times a year. That London is on another planet where football income is concerned. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: eamonn on April 27, 2021, 03:46:37 PM
			

			

				It is interesting. Clearly, the heft of London applies to the city as whole. Because the area around White Hart Lane is a lot closer to Aston/Witton in look, feel and under-investment than it is to Chelsea at Fulham Broadway, close to the King's Road. I've lived near both and they're night and day in terms of affluence. Even the Emirates has its fair share of "scuzziness" within a half mile radius.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: dave.woodhall on April 27, 2021, 04:22:55 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: eamonn on April 27, 2021, 03:46:37 PM
It is interesting. Clearly, the heft of London applies to the city as whole. Because the area around White Hart Lane is a lot closer to Aston/Witton in look, feel and under-investment than it is to Chelsea at Fulham Broadway, close to the King's Road. I've lived near both and they're night and day in terms of affluence. Even the Emirates has its fair share of "scuzziness" within a half mile radius.

And like Villa Park the locals don't visit the ground because they've been priced out. One thing the Lerner ownership did well was to connect with the community (Paul Faulkner once said "We accept that we're noisy neighbours") and NSWE seem to be carrying this on.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: jwarry on April 27, 2021, 06:38:46 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Ad@m on April 27, 2021, 02:58:42 PM
Quote from: Villan82 on April 27, 2021, 02:45:04 PM
How did they re-invent bloody Spurs, of all clubs, as a big club?

It is incredible, and I know it's a well trodden path, but being in London is a massive advantage when it comes to getting rich people and/or tourists to part with silly money to watch a game of football.

So how did a shite hole like Manchester get popular?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ad@m on April 27, 2021, 06:47:45 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: jwarry on April 27, 2021, 06:38:46 PM
Quote from: Ad@m on April 27, 2021, 02:58:42 PM
Quote from: Villan82 on April 27, 2021, 02:45:04 PM
How did they re-invent bloody Spurs, of all clubs, as a big club?

It is incredible, and I know it's a well trodden path, but being in London is a massive advantage when it comes to getting rich people and/or tourists to part with silly money to watch a game of football.

So how did a shite hole like Manchester get popular?

When Man United started winning everything?

The question was how an absolute non-entity like Spurs can get away charging big club prices. The answer, to a huge extent, is because they're in London. They wouldn't be charging that if they were in any other city in the country, that's for certain. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on April 27, 2021, 06:59:21 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: jwarry on April 27, 2021, 06:38:46 PM
Quote from: Ad@m on April 27, 2021, 02:58:42 PM
Quote from: Villan82 on April 27, 2021, 02:45:04 PM
How did they re-invent bloody Spurs, of all clubs, as a big club?

It is incredible, and I know it's a well trodden path, but being in London is a massive advantage when it comes to getting rich people and/or tourists to part with silly money to watch a game of football.

So how did a shite hole like Manchester get popular?
Munich.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on April 27, 2021, 07:07:44 PM
			

			

				No need.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ian. on April 27, 2021, 07:18:53 PM
			

			

				Absolutely, no need for that.

When I moved down here to sunny Devon in ‘83, I couldn’t believe the amount of Man Utd supporters here. It was probably every child in my class bar one or two. I think it all stemmed from their parents supporting them in the George Best years and not following their own local teams like Exeter or Torquay.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: gpbarr on April 27, 2021, 07:48:50 PM
			

			

				That’s disgusting. Completely out of order
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: N'ZMAV on April 27, 2021, 08:02:04 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: ChicagoLion on April 27, 2021, 06:59:21 PM
Quote from: jwarry on April 27, 2021, 06:38:46 PM
Quote from: Ad@m on April 27, 2021, 02:58:42 PM
Quote from: Villan82 on April 27, 2021, 02:45:04 PM
How did they re-invent bloody Spurs, of all clubs, as a big club?

It is incredible, and I know it's a well trodden path, but being in London is a massive advantage when it comes to getting rich people and/or tourists to part with silly money to watch a game of football.

So how did a shite hole like Manchester get popular?
Munich.
 VAR are reviewing that one.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: CT on April 27, 2021, 08:05:00 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: gpbarr on April 27, 2021, 07:48:50 PM
That’s disgusting. Completely out of order

I’ll second that. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: VILLA MOLE on April 27, 2021, 08:06:42 PM
			

			

				i wasn’t born , but the impression i have from people who were , that after this horrific disaster , that a number of people were drawn to the club , especially with them rebuilding and going on to win the European Cup .  it is an iconic story 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on April 27, 2021, 08:35:43 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: VILLA MOLE on April 27, 2021, 08:06:42 PM
i wasn’t born , but the impression i have from people who were , that after this horrific disaster , that a number of people were drawn to the club , especially with them rebuilding and going on to win the European Cup .  it is an iconic story 

That's the way to express that thought.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Jon Crofts on April 27, 2021, 08:40:17 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: ChicagoLion on April 27, 2021, 06:59:21 PM
Quote from: jwarry on April 27, 2021, 06:38:46 PM
Quote from: Ad@m on April 27, 2021, 02:58:42 PM
Quote from: Villan82 on April 27, 2021, 02:45:04 PM
How did they re-invent bloody Spurs, of all clubs, as a big club?

It is incredible, and I know it's a well trodden path, but being in London is a massive advantage when it comes to getting rich people and/or tourists to part with silly money to watch a game of football.

So how did a shite hole like Manchester get popular?
Munich.

Keep that shit up and you can have some time off.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on April 27, 2021, 09:02:36 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Jon Crofts on April 27, 2021, 08:40:17 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on April 27, 2021, 06:59:21 PM
Quote from: jwarry on April 27, 2021, 06:38:46 PM
Quote from: Ad@m on April 27, 2021, 02:58:42 PM
Quote from: Villan82 on April 27, 2021, 02:45:04 PM
How did they re-invent bloody Spurs, of all clubs, as a big club?

It is incredible, and I know it's a well trodden path, but being in London is a massive advantage when it comes to getting rich people and/or tourists to part with silly money to watch a game of football.

So how did a shite hole like Manchester get popular?
Munich.

Keep that shit up and you can have some time off.
I wasn’t trying to be offensive but I understood that a surge in support happened after that terrible event.
If I am wrong, sorry.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: AV82EC on April 27, 2021, 09:07:58 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on April 27, 2021, 08:35:43 PM
Quote from: VILLA MOLE on April 27, 2021, 08:06:42 PM
i wasn’t born , but the impression i have from people who were , that after this horrific disaster , that a number of people were drawn to the club , especially with them rebuilding and going on to win the European Cup .  it is an iconic story 

That's the way to express that thought.

Exactly, they got quite rightly huge amounts of sympathy from the nation and I think a lot of it stuck and then they built on it with the Best Law Charlton era just as TV started to have an influence which really cemented the nationwide support. To win the European Cup 10 years after was some sort of justice for them just like our story just afterwards. We even managed to copy getting relegated 5 years after winning it. Now if we could just copy their trophy count things would be looking up.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on April 27, 2021, 09:17:09 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: VILLA MOLE on April 27, 2021, 08:06:42 PM
i wasn’t born , but the impression i have from people who were , that after this horrific disaster , that a number of people were drawn to the club , especially with them rebuilding and going on to win the European Cup .  it is an iconic story 

That was pretty well the way my Dad explained it. I'm old enough to remember their 1968 European Cup win, this was really the culmination of Busby rebuidling from the ashes of Munich and was at a time when we all supported other home clubs exploits in European competition. This is the iconic story that made the club  Manchester United known worldwide.

What followed from the 1990s onwards was an extremely slick marketing exercise which established the brand Manchester United worldwide.


 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on April 27, 2021, 09:21:15 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on April 27, 2021, 09:17:09 PM
Quote from: VILLA MOLE on April 27, 2021, 08:06:42 PM
i wasn’t born , but the impression i have from people who were , that after this horrific disaster , that a number of people were drawn to the club , especially with them rebuilding and going on to win the European Cup .  it is an iconic story 

That was pretty well the way my Dad explained it. I'm old enough to remember their 1968 European Cup win, this was really the culmination of Busby rebuidling from the ashes of Munich and was at a time when we all supported other home clubs exploits in European competition. This is the iconic story that made the club  Manchester United known worldwide.

What followed from the 1990s onwards was an extremely slick marketing exercise which established the brand Manchester United worldwide.
Exactly.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ian. on April 27, 2021, 09:48:59 PM
			

			

				I think we’ve misinterpreted your very blunt answer though Chicago. Apologies to you as I see what you mean now.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on April 27, 2021, 09:56:17 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Ian. on April 27, 2021, 09:48:59 PM
I think we’ve misinterpreted your very blunt answer though Chicago. Apologies to you as I see what you mean now.
Thanks mate,I was a little surprised by the reactions.
Some people seem to look out for things to take offence, when there is none meant.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ian. on April 27, 2021, 10:03:51 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: ChicagoLion on April 27, 2021, 09:56:17 PM
Quote from: Ian. on April 27, 2021, 09:48:59 PM
I think we’ve misinterpreted your very blunt answer though Chicago. Apologies to you as I see what you mean now.
Thanks mate,I was a little surprised by the reactions.
Some people seem to look out for things to take offence, when there is none meant.

You’re welcome.

That’s so often the case on a forum. Also with a text messages, messenger and with what’s-ap, it can be very easily misinterpreted. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on April 27, 2021, 10:07:02 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on April 27, 2021, 11:33:26 AM
So why did Spurs, Arsenal et al spend so much on new stadia?

Spurs went big on getting NFL games due to the success Wembley had hosting them a couple of times a year so that was going to be big cash bonus for them but won't happen until late 2022 now.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on April 27, 2021, 10:10:50 PM
			

			

				No way would Man. City have got the takeover if they were still at Maine Road. They capitalised well on the Commonwealth games even if it took 4-5 years.

Interesting what we do in the aftermath of hosting it ourselves. Plenty of housing going up now around the site so we'll have a few more thousand people living within 10 minutes walking distance and two minute train ride of VP so potential people to try to attract for corporate and general match day if we really want them.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: brontebilly on April 27, 2021, 10:16:43 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: SoccerHQ on April 27, 2021, 10:10:50 PM
No way would Man. City have got the takeover if they were still at Maine Road. They capitalised well on the Commonwealth games even if it took 4-5 years.

Interesting what we do in the aftermath of hosting it ourselves. Plenty of housing going up now around the site so we'll have a few more thousand people living within 10 minutes walking distance and two minute train ride of VP so potential people to try to attract for corporate and general match day if we really want them.

Didnt the UAE crew get Man City on the cheap too from Shinawatra. ? Always thought Manchester was dog rough but particularly up around Moss side where they are based. An interesting investment. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on April 27, 2021, 10:25:15 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: brontebilly on April 27, 2021, 10:16:43 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on April 27, 2021, 10:10:50 PM
No way would Man. City have got the takeover if they were still at Maine Road. They capitalised well on the Commonwealth games even if it took 4-5 years.

Interesting what we do in the aftermath of hosting it ourselves. Plenty of housing going up now around the site so we'll have a few more thousand people living within 10 minutes walking distance and two minute train ride of VP so potential people to try to attract for corporate and general match day if we really want them.

Didnt the UAE crew get Man City on the cheap too from Shinawatra. ? Always thought Manchester was dog rough but particularly up around Moss side where they are based. An interesting investment. 

Shinawatra was basically Xia before we got him a decade later. Spent loads at the start under Sven before the money dried up and Thai authorities arrested him.

Dubai lot have put in loads of investment around the stadium with all the training pitches and things that have popped up so no chance they could've happened around Maine Road so again just a good bit of timing for Man. City otherwise they would've remained a Newcastle type club with untapped potential.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ad@m on April 27, 2021, 10:51:52 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: ChicagoLion on April 27, 2021, 09:56:17 PM
Quote from: Ian. on April 27, 2021, 09:48:59 PM
I think we’ve misinterpreted your very blunt answer though Chicago. Apologies to you as I see what you mean now.
Thanks mate,I was a little surprised by the reactions.
Some people seem to look out for things to take offence, when there is none meant.

I don't think you can blame anyone else for the reaction.

Munich is a pretty sensitive subject, known to have been used in an abusive way in the past.  It's hardly surprising that it got interpreted in different ways when you wrote it as a one-word post with zero context.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: RamboandBruno on April 28, 2021, 06:57:19 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: brontebilly on April 27, 2021, 10:16:43 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on April 27, 2021, 10:10:50 PM
No way would Man. City have got the takeover if they were still at Maine Road. They capitalised well on the Commonwealth games even if it took 4-5 years.

Interesting what we do in the aftermath of hosting it ourselves. Plenty of housing going up now around the site so we'll have a few more thousand people living within 10 minutes walking distance and two minute train ride of VP so potential people to try to attract for corporate and general match day if we really want them.

Didnt the UAE crew get Man City on the cheap too from Shinawatra. ? Always thought Manchester was dog rough but particularly up around Moss side where they are based. An interesting investment.

I managed to get tickets for me and my son in our first year back up when we lost 3-0, October 2019 maybe? Anything pre pandemic seems like another lifetime ago. Anyway I found it an interesting but ultimately soulless experience. The tickets were through my sons football club, so we’re obviously villa, but there was a coach load of kids and dads who were supporters of everyone and anyone, blues, baggies even Man U, for the first time in my football going life I was essentially a tourist. 
Part of the day, was the kids got to train up there in one of their many facilities, which were really impressive, I think their separate youth team stadium looked bigger than many league one stadiums! However on the drive in the area around the ‘complex’ still looked really deprived and there was no obvious investment from the club in the surrounding community infrastructure, not that it has to but it reminded me of gentrification that takes place in inner city areas. I come from Hockley originally and it’s a bit like the millions invested in gentrifying the Jewellery Quarter, with no investment a half a mile down the road in the deprived estates.

The part of the stadium we were in was also soulless, lots of tourists like us, but then Man City fans, wandering in late, not singing, hundreds congregating for ages into the 2nd half on the concourse drinking their coffees.

I know it might seem the natural course for villa to follow, if we want to be successful, especially with the plans these owners might have, but I would hate us to move from VP, or match day, to be to total corporate experience Man City has become.

My proudest moment of the day, in the training facilities before the game, there was an opportunity for kids to get their photo with the trophies Man City had won the year before, think it was league, FA cup and league cup. There was an employee of the club beckoning my then 9 year old over to get a photo with some of his teammates. I was even encouraging him. He turns around and says the lad, ‘naw it’s ok, I’m Villa’.   So proud!! 😂
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: CT on April 28, 2021, 07:31:03 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: RamboandBruno on April 28, 2021, 06:57:19 AM
Quote from: brontebilly on April 27, 2021, 10:16:43 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on April 27, 2021, 10:10:50 PM
No way would Man. City have got the takeover if they were still at Maine Road. They capitalised well on the Commonwealth games even if it took 4-5 years.

Interesting what we do in the aftermath of hosting it ourselves. Plenty of housing going up now around the site so we'll have a few more thousand people living within 10 minutes walking distance and two minute train ride of VP so potential people to try to attract for corporate and general match day if we really want them.

Didnt the UAE crew get Man City on the cheap too from Shinawatra. ? Always thought Manchester was dog rough but particularly up around Moss side where they are based. An interesting investment.

I managed to get tickets for me and my son in our first year back up when we lost 3-0, October 2019 maybe? Anything pre pandemic seems like another lifetime ago. Anyway I found it an interesting but ultimately soulless experience. The tickets were through my sons football club, so we’re obviously villa, but there was a coach load of kids and dads who were supporters of everyone and anyone, blues, baggies even Man U, for the first time in my football going life I was essentially a tourist. 
Part of the day, was the kids got to train up there in one of their many facilities, which were really impressive, I think their separate youth team stadium looked bigger than many league one stadiums! However on the drive in the area around the ‘complex’ still looked really deprived and there was no obvious investment from the club in the surrounding community infrastructure, not that it has to but it reminded me of gentrification that takes place in inner city areas. I come from Hockley originally and it’s a bit like the millions invested in gentrifying the Jewellery Quarter, with no investment a half a mile down the road in the deprived estates.

The part of the stadium we were in was also soulless, lots of tourists like us, but then Man City fans, wandering in late, not singing, hundreds congregating for ages into the 2nd half on the concourse drinking their coffees.

I know it might seem the natural course for villa to follow, if we want to be successful, especially with the plans these owners might have, but I would hate us to move from VP, or match day, to be to total corporate experience Man City has become.

My proudest moment of the day, in the training facilities before the game, there was an opportunity for kids to get their photo with the trophies Man City had won the year before, think it was league, FA cup and league cup. There was an employee of the club beckoning my then 9 year old over to get a photo with some of his teammates. I was even encouraging him. He turns around and says the lad, ‘naw it’s ok, I’m Villa’.   So proud!! 😂

It’s hard to believe how sanitised that place has become, I was at that game too. 

The most embarrassing part was on 80 minutes where thousands got up en mass and just walked out! Hardly any singing to speak of, just a quiet day out sat at the football. 

A City lad I know from the Maine Road days says he goes once a year now because he hates it so much. Still loves the club but can’t get used to the brand it is now. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on April 28, 2021, 07:36:30 AM
			

			

				It's similar to when Arsenal spanked us at Wembley. We left pretty much straight after the final whistle, to find the queue for the tube station was already thousands deep of Arsenal fans who'd clearly left before the final whistle, and hadn't stuck around for the end of the game or to see them lift the cup.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: dave.woodhall on April 28, 2021, 07:53:07 AM
			

			

				What did I say? To get to where you want you have to become what you despise. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on April 28, 2021, 08:33:03 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Ad@m on April 27, 2021, 10:51:52 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on April 27, 2021, 09:56:17 PM
Quote from: Ian. on April 27, 2021, 09:48:59 PM
I think we’ve misinterpreted your very blunt answer though Chicago. Apologies to you as I see what you mean now.
Thanks mate,I was a little surprised by the reactions.
Some people seem to look out for things to take offence, when there is none meant.

I don't think you can blame anyone else for the reaction.

Munich is a pretty sensitive subject, known to have been used in an abusive way in the past.  It's hardly surprising that it got interpreted in different ways when you wrote it as a one-word post with zero context.
As you say 1 word no context.
Not blaming any one, people choose to be offended.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Rioch is King on April 28, 2021, 08:56:54 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: dave.woodhall on April 28, 2021, 07:53:07 AM
What did I say? To get to where you want you have to become what you despise.

This is so right - even if it is difficult to get your head around. Villa Park is still Villa park - it’s in Aston, by the park and just down from Aston hall. We play in claret and blue and have a lion on the badge - it’s the minimum requirement for me. 

But the greatest thing at the moment is our manager in a local man from a Villa family, and so is our captain - who also happens to be genuinely brilliant.  There are young guys from the youth setup coming through and it seems most of our players are really decent lads. We even have a handsome and intelligent vice captain who absolutely gets the club and is a fine defender. It would be fantastic to do as well as Leicester without becoming what we despise - surely we should give them every chance to achieve that before getting too impatient. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ad@m on April 28, 2021, 09:07:49 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on April 28, 2021, 07:36:30 AM
It's similar to when Arsenal spanked us at Wembley. We left pretty much straight after the final whistle, to find the queue for the tube station was already thousands deep of Arsenal fans who'd clearly left before the final whistle, and hadn't stuck around for the end of the game or to see them lift the cup.

I had the same experience and got fairly unreasonably annoyed at the pathetic plastic Arsenal fans who couldn't even be arsed to stick around to see their team win the FA Cup.

I'm yet to meet an Arsenal fan that isn't a twat.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on April 28, 2021, 09:08:48 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: dave.woodhall on April 28, 2021, 07:53:07 AM
What did I say? To get to where you want you have to become what you despise.
I truly hope we don’t, but the day we move from Villa Park would be the day that this comes true.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on April 28, 2021, 09:09:39 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Ad@m on April 28, 2021, 09:07:49 AM
Quote from: Risso on April 28, 2021, 07:36:30 AM
It's similar to when Arsenal spanked us at Wembley. We left pretty much straight after the final whistle, to find the queue for the tube station was already thousands deep of Arsenal fans who'd clearly left before the final whistle, and hadn't stuck around for the end of the game or to see them lift the cup.

I had the same experience and got fairly unreasonably annoyed at the pathetic plastic Arsenal fans who couldn't even be arsed to stick around to see their team win the FA Cup.

I'm yet to meet an Arsenal fan that isn't a twat.

A lot of my friends are Arsenal fans and they're no bigger twats than I am...ah.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on April 28, 2021, 09:11:34 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Ad@m on April 28, 2021, 09:07:49 AM
Quote from: Risso on April 28, 2021, 07:36:30 AM
It's similar to when Arsenal spanked us at Wembley. We left pretty much straight after the final whistle, to find the queue for the tube station was already thousands deep of Arsenal fans who'd clearly left before the final whistle, and hadn't stuck around for the end of the game or to see them lift the cup.

I had the same experience and got fairly unreasonably annoyed at the pathetic plastic Arsenal fans who couldn't even be arsed to stick around to see their team win the FA Cup.

I'm yet to meet an Arsenal fan that isn't a twat.
I have good mate who is Arsenal, also know someone who has 8 seats just in case his  family all decide to go.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Mister E on April 28, 2021, 09:21:43 AM
			

			

				The conversation about Citeh reminds me that I lived up there 1980-82 as a student. My then-girlfriend / now-wife lived on Maine Road and I would sometimes go to the games: proper stadium and proper fans. I never went to the 'other place' because even then it was seen as full of plastics (although we didn't refer to them as such at the time).
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Footy-Vill on April 28, 2021, 09:35:31 AM
			

			

				Well I see Dean only improving interesring he has an expiring contract in 2023. So I see him staying full length of his contract for next 2 years and beyond as he continues to build and improve the squad. 
I think there is more than 2 seasons left here for him and he could go on another 4/5 years with a legacy because he has the right character that his players have bought into.
That said I think next season 2021/22 will define ultimately if he gets a new contract/contract extension.

Personal I would give him to 2026. Literally 5 years to implement what he wants in playing style and players. Give the man time and he be noting short of successful . In my mind's eye overall that's all Dean Smith has been as head coach of Villa. A success and raised levels from a decade of dross.
I'll forever be fond of Smith. A wonderful personality who is a credit to representing the mighty Villa
Guardiola has 6 years , Klopp 7 years they have become successful being given the time to implement their style and squads.
Dean has had 3 years let's have a few more with him at the helm before we talk about any change of management.

In Dean we trust! 


			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on April 28, 2021, 09:37:44 AM
			

			

				I'm down with that, Footy.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Footy-Vill on April 28, 2021, 09:52:30 AM
			

			

				I guess not finishing as high as we could have gives him more time to improve again because a top 6 place and Europe would only raise expectations and a budget with a different playing squad to negotiate 2021/22 season.
As well as sustained challenge for top 4 and competitive in the domestic cups with a solid squad and introducing academy players into the cup matches. 

That said I can already see Deano strategizing on what keeps our beloved side up their in the higher echolens for a whole season. And a squad that can win trophies. Challenge for top 4.  Discussing this with his management team and putting his requirements forward to Purslow and Lange.

That would be an improved playing squad quality.
A depth. That he needs to be afforded to be competitive 
And whatever other tweaks needed in recovery and performance for player fitness and availability.

This season was like no other and have missed out I feel to a real chance of at least Europra league or a cup. However having nearly won the league cup last season and having a much improved season in league this a continuous progress is being made.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: chrisw1 on April 28, 2021, 10:06:41 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Ad@m on April 27, 2021, 10:51:52 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on April 27, 2021, 09:56:17 PM
Quote from: Ian. on April 27, 2021, 09:48:59 PM
I think we’ve misinterpreted your very blunt answer though Chicago. Apologies to you as I see what you mean now.
Thanks mate,I was a little surprised by the reactions.
Some people seem to look out for things to take offence, when there is none meant.

I don't think you can blame anyone else for the reaction.

Munich is a pretty sensitive subject, known to have been used in an abusive way in the past.  It's hardly surprising that it got interpreted in different ways when you wrote it as a one-word post with zero context.
In fairness to Chicago I thought the reactions were well over the top.  It was obvious to me what he meant.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Aldridge Villa on April 28, 2021, 11:21:06 AM
			

			

				Obvious to me too. Somewhat surprised by the reaction.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on April 28, 2021, 11:50:25 AM
			

			

				Thanks Aldridge and Chrisw1.
Threatened with a ban aswell, Orwellian.

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: in exile on April 28, 2021, 11:51:12 AM
			

			

				Zzzzzzz...
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: LeeB on April 28, 2021, 12:25:40 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: ChicagoLion on April 28, 2021, 11:50:25 AM
Thanks Aldridge and Chrisw1.
Threatened with a ban aswell, Orwellian.


I didn't take offence, but you do have a habit of occasionally throwing out some obnoxious replies which can seem jarring, so I understand why some would see it that way.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: dave.woodhall on April 28, 2021, 01:03:36 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: ChicagoLion on April 28, 2021, 11:50:25 AM
Thanks Aldridge and Chrisw1.
Threatened with a ban aswell, Orwellian.


If this place is so bad, go somewhere else.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Steve67 on April 28, 2021, 01:13:55 PM
			

			

				Fuck that! End up on Villatalk!! Eek! 😍
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Clampy on April 28, 2021, 01:20:58 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Steve67 on April 28, 2021, 01:13:55 PM
Fuck that! End up on Villatalk!! Eek! 😍

Or Tbar. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: eamonn on April 28, 2021, 04:29:17 PM
			

			

				Hope DanLanza still has holiday-makers to clean pools for. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on April 28, 2021, 10:40:10 PM
			

			

				Thoughtcrime
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: cdbearsfan on April 28, 2021, 10:41:49 PM
			

			

				I just went into Room 101 and could see ChicagoLion's posting history.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on April 30, 2021, 07:09:55 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on April 28, 2021, 10:41:49 PM
I just went into Room 101 and could see ChicagoLion's posting history.


Bingo 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Louzie0 on May 04, 2021, 06:39:00 PM
			

			

				quote from Boozey 186 
I think Dean bought himself another 12 months with our form up until New Year. It's easy to forget now, but we were really good up until that point. Obviously, that was largely down to Jack's form, but I can't remember too many matches at all in which we were outplayed up until that point. Leeds at home is the only one that jumps out.

It's frustrating to see it all fizzle out, and there are a few worrying signs - not least the very basic errors that we continue to make. But the biggest worry is the fact he seems hell-bent on the same formation *no matter what*.

I think his greatest achievement as Villa manager so far is keeping us up after the Covid break. He went away and did something that most managers seem incapable of doing - he went against is natural instincts and changed the way we set up. Making us harder to beat is what got us those points in the last four matches, and it was all down to him. He made that happen. by learning from his mistakes.

That's what makes the last couple of months so frustrating. Keinan has made a difference on a few occasions now (let's not forget the penalty he could have had in the last seconds against Man U, which never got looked at), but Dean still seems reluctant to change the system to incorporate him, often opting for Barkley instead. Ramsey, I understand, but Barkley? Is he just being stubborn? I can't work out the logic.

The only thing that matters at this point is next season, in my opinion. I want to see Dean building for that. Whether that means trying out a few kids to give them experience, or trying out a few new systems - I want evidence that we are planning for something different. I want to know that Dean can adapt again, for when Jack gets injured again (and he will), or for when Plan A isn't working - players like Wes and Davis are perfect for that, because they offer something different to Ollie. The last few games this season are such a rare opportunity to build for next year - I really hope we don't waste it.

I do think that it is a good thing that we've had Barkley this season, because the couple of times that he's made an impact (I'm struggling to think of any genuinely good performances, but he has made an impact on a few games) it's highlighted how good we can be with someone doing that job. Just imagine if we had someone doing that week in, week out. That has to be a priority for the summer, alongside upgrading the wingers.

I'm very optimistic about next season, with Dean in charge. He'll get backed again in the summer, and he always performs better after a long break - but in the summer, we need as much work as we needed last year, and then we need an even bigger improvement. If we're not challenging for the European spots by Christmas, i think we might need to look elsewhere, but by improving year on year, Dean has more than earned the right to have go to take us to the next level - he hasn't failed yet.


I agree with this, it’s how I feel about Deano.

(And sorry in advance. I’ve quoted the original post more than 3 times and it hasn’t appeared so I thought I would just copy and paste. Boozey, I salute you!)
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Axl Rose on May 05, 2021, 02:28:32 AM
			

			

				Good post, Lou. 

I've been a critic of Dean, though recently my dearest wife pointed out that he also lost his dad to covid, yet kept us up against all odds. 

I won't be criticising him any more. Put in my place once again.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: sid1964 on May 05, 2021, 07:03:49 AM
			

			

				I would imagine that Dean will be signing a new contract at the end of this season
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Villan82 on May 05, 2021, 09:22:11 AM
			

			

				Dean Smith has improved as a manager, it's great to see. The Fulham game showed something that we didn't see much of last season and the final ten games of last season showed something that we hadn't seen from him before then.

I wanted him to make us harder to beat and he did. It's been our best season in over ten years. Well done Dean.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Mister E on May 05, 2021, 09:46:10 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Louzie0 on May 04, 2021, 06:39:00 PM
quote from Boozey 186 
The only thing that matters at this point is next season, in my opinion. I want to see Dean building for that. Whether that means trying out a few kids to give them experience, or trying out a few new systems - I want evidence that we are planning for something different. I want to know that Dean can adapt again, for when Jack gets injured again (and he will), or for when Plan A isn't working - players like Wes and Davis are perfect for that, because they offer something different to Ollie. The last few games this season are such a rare opportunity to build for next year - I really hope we don't waste it.
Thx, Lou.
This is the paragraph that resonates most with my thinking - I posted 2-3 weeks' ago that with c.40 points on the board we should be using the remaining games to try different players and systems out: this is an ideal time because the fans are not in the ground to 'judge' and we have 3 or 4 options either coming back from injury or from the youth system.
Clearly, we're not going to be doing this.
Smith obviously gets to go again; why wouldn't you?! But, the stakes get bigger, and he - like most managers - are on a tightrope, results-wise.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on May 05, 2021, 10:04:10 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Mister E on May 05, 2021, 09:46:10 AM
Quote from: Louzie0 on May 04, 2021, 06:39:00 PM
quote from Boozey 186 
The only thing that matters at this point is next season, in my opinion. I want to see Dean building for that. Whether that means trying out a few kids to give them experience, or trying out a few new systems - I want evidence that we are planning for something different. I want to know that Dean can adapt again, for when Jack gets injured again (and he will), or for when Plan A isn't working - players like Wes and Davis are perfect for that, because they offer something different to Ollie. The last few games this season are such a rare opportunity to build for next year - I really hope we don't waste it.
Thx, Lou.
This is the paragraph that resonates most with my thinking - I posted 2-3 weeks' ago that with c.40 points on the board we should be using the remaining games to try different players and systems out: this is an ideal time because the fans are not in the ground to 'judge' and we have 3 or 4 options either coming back from injury or from the youth system.
Clearly, we're not going to be doing this.
Smith obviously gets to go again; why wouldn't you?! But, the stakes get bigger, and he - like most managers - are on a tightrope, results-wise.

I'd agree with this, Chuk, Kesler and JPB should all be making their first team debuts before the summer, all 3 have been around the senior squad a lot this year and all have been on the bench and not been given a run out. It's the one thing that Smith has disappointed me with this season, especially given how vocal Purslow has been about building around our youth prospects.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: chrisw1 on May 05, 2021, 10:28:29 AM
			

			

				It would be lovely to see some of the kids play.  But looking from Smiths point of view, before the Everton game his team had won 4 games in 20 and we were pretty much in relegation form since Boxing Day.  I can see why he may have felt the need to try and get some positive results before the end of the season was more pressing than blooding youngsters, for job security reasons if nothing else.  

Hopefully the Everton result will give him confidence he has the breathing space he needs.  But even so with the fixtures we have and our desire to finish as high as possible, I wouldn't be surprised if those three don't make an appearance this season.  I feel if he was going to play Kesler then the Cash suspension was the time to do it.   
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on May 05, 2021, 11:26:27 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: chrisw1 on May 05, 2021, 10:28:29 AM
It would be lovely to see some of the kids play.  But looking from Smiths point of view, before the Everton game his team had won 4 games in 20 and we were pretty much in relegation form since Boxing Day.  I can see why he may have felt the need to try and get some positive results before the end of the season was more pressing than blooding youngsters, for job security reasons if nothing else.  

Hopefully the Everton result will give him confidence he has the breathing space he needs.  But even so with the fixtures we have and our desire to finish as high as possible, I wouldn't be surprised if those three don't make an appearance this season.  I feel if he was going to play Kesler then the Cash suspension was the time to do it. 
I think we know that Smith is not a risk taker.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: OCD on May 05, 2021, 11:36:20 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: chrisw1 on May 05, 2021, 10:28:29 AM
It would be lovely to see some of the kids play.  But looking from Smiths point of view, before the Everton game his team had won 4 games in 20 and we were pretty much in relegation form since Boxing Day.  I can see why he may have felt the need to try and get some positive results before the end of the season was more pressing than blooding youngsters, for job security reasons if nothing else.  

Hopefully the Everton result will give him confidence he has the breathing space he needs.  But even so with the fixtures we have and our desire to finish as high as possible, I wouldn't be surprised if those three don't make an appearance this season.  I feel if he was going to play Kesler then the Cash suspension was the time to do it.   

It's also easier to throw kids in when the team's playing well.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on May 05, 2021, 11:47:26 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: OCD on May 05, 2021, 11:36:20 AM
Quote from: chrisw1 on May 05, 2021, 10:28:29 AM
It would be lovely to see some of the kids play.  But looking from Smiths point of view, before the Everton game his team had won 4 games in 20 and we were pretty much in relegation form since Boxing Day.  I can see why he may have felt the need to try and get some positive results before the end of the season was more pressing than blooding youngsters, for job security reasons if nothing else.  

Hopefully the Everton result will give him confidence he has the breathing space he needs.  But even so with the fixtures we have and our desire to finish as high as possible, I wouldn't be surprised if those three don't make an appearance this season.  I feel if he was going to play Kesler then the Cash suspension was the time to do it.   

It's also easier to throw kids in when the team's playing well.

Of course it is, but a third of a seasonwith nothing much to play for is the sort of opportunity to give the youth gametime that you rarely get. I think we all know that these kids will all play in the league cup but that might well be the only chance they get before christmas and if they believe they're ready to step up that won't really be enough.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Baldy on May 05, 2021, 12:08:03 PM
			

			

				Can't see him changing the team whilst we still have a remote chance of qualifying for europe. If no chance of qualiying after next two or three games he might give one or two youngsters a chance.

Time will tell but would love to end up above Arse and Leeds. Would, just love it.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Footy-Vill on May 05, 2021, 04:53:48 PM
			

			

				Yes 8-10th finish fantastic as below half way, bottom half, would be disappointing and not fair on Dean in many ways so hoping can push now to season end.
Think overall he's progressing the team and already excited for next season.
Been some wonderful moments this
Go on Deano! 
Up the Villa! 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: RamboandBruno on May 05, 2021, 11:40:08 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: ChicagoLion on May 05, 2021, 11:26:27 AM
Quote from: chrisw1 on May 05, 2021, 10:28:29 AM
It would be lovely to see some of the kids play.  But looking from Smiths point of view, before the Everton game his team had won 4 games in 20 and we were pretty much in relegation form since Boxing Day.  I can see why he may have felt the need to try and get some positive results before the end of the season was more pressing than blooding youngsters, for job security reasons if nothing else.  

Hopefully the Everton result will give him confidence he has the breathing space he needs.  But even so with the fixtures we have and our desire to finish as high as possible, I wouldn't be surprised if those three don't make an appearance this season.  I feel if he was going to play Kesler then the Cash suspension was the time to do it. 
I think we know that Smith is not a risk taker.

Think it was quite risky to carry on playing Barkley considering how bad he’s been prior to the Everton game.
I agree with ChrisW on this, I think whilst there is an outside chance of Europe, he’ll continue to play what he perceives as his best side and fair enough if my book. Unless by some miracle Jack is back, why change a side that played so well last weekend.  If we only pick up one point or maybe none from the Man U and Everton games, he might give a couple of those kids some minutes for the last 3 games. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: brontebilly on May 06, 2021, 01:36:14 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: ChicagoLion on May 05, 2021, 11:26:27 AM
Quote from: chrisw1 on May 05, 2021, 10:28:29 AM
It would be lovely to see some of the kids play.  But looking from Smiths point of view, before the Everton game his team had won 4 games in 20 and we were pretty much in relegation form since Boxing Day.  I can see why he may have felt the need to try and get some positive results before the end of the season was more pressing than blooding youngsters, for job security reasons if nothing else.  

Hopefully the Everton result will give him confidence he has the breathing space he needs.  But even so with the fixtures we have and our desire to finish as high as possible, I wouldn't be surprised if those three don't make an appearance this season.  I feel if he was going to play Kesler then the Cash suspension was the time to do it. 
I think we know that Smith is not a risk taker.

He did progress Ramsey over the likes of Hourihane earlier in the season to be fair. But it was somewhat strange that Elmo was selected recently when Cash was out. Elmo had a solid game but if the Kesler kid is as promising as made out on here surely it was an ideal time to bring him in. 

I guess Smith like probably all managers in the top division are primarily focused on results. Pathways for youth are all well and good in principle but not a priority for a first team coach. I just sincerely hope we get decent loans for some of these kids next season and not let them stagnate like O'Hare, Green and Davis did in recent times. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Olof's Beard on May 06, 2021, 05:36:30 PM
			

			

				Chukwemeka is clearly a big talent but the demands that Smith stick him in the team are a bit daft. We have an experienced coaching team who know whether a player is ready or not.

He is a stand out player at under 18 level and clearly too good for most players of his age. However, according to Pravda he has 1 goal in 16 for the U23s. We have already fast tracked him up to that level so he is on a 'pathway'. But is a big leap from there to the first team let alone the U18s. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on May 06, 2021, 05:51:17 PM
			

			

				I think it’s really difficult to know when to give youngsters game time unless they are really special and by that I mean Rooney, Owen, Foden type special 
I don’t know if we have any at that level yet


			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on May 06, 2021, 05:57:19 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Olof's Beard on May 06, 2021, 05:36:30 PM
Chukwemeka is clearly a big talent but the demands that Smith stick him in the team are a bit daft. We have an experienced coaching team who know whether a player is ready or not.

He is a stand out player at under 18 level and clearly too good for most players of his age. However, according to Pravda he has 1 goal in 16 for the U23s. We have already fast tracked him up to that level so he is on a 'pathway'. But is a big leap from there to the first team let alone the U18s. 

That doesn't really mean much though, at U23 level he plays deeper. People aren't calling for him to get game time just because he's scoring goals.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Olof's Beard on May 06, 2021, 06:19:38 PM
			

			

				Granted, I meant to ask if anyone has seen him enough to know how he fares in the under 23s week to week? But he is playing above his age group - which appears to be our strategy with the teens - and it is still a leap to the first team. We have integrated him into the first team squad and he's getting closer but the coaching team will know when he's ready. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: DrGonzo on May 06, 2021, 06:22:33 PM
			

			

				The younger players will have, I sincerely hope, a planned progression that will have review points built in along the way.  Unless they have an "Eureka" moment along that path there is no real reason to suddenly cannon them into the first team barring a massive injury crisis.  The youngsters appearances on the bench are more likely to give them an insight into the experience of matchday routines before their first game day.  Incremental exposure to the rigours of full time football, and wisely so, sink or swim is effective only as long as the outcome is "swim".
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on May 06, 2021, 06:28:04 PM
			

			

				A number of the youngsters held up pretty well in the FA cup.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SamTheMouse on May 06, 2021, 08:34:00 PM
			

			

				If he did play the kids and they got slaughtered, so would he. I can see why he's going with what he feels is his best team. 

Anyway, he's bringing Ramsey through nicely, which would suggest he's not averse to integrating the youngsters when he feels they are ready.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: cdbearsfan on May 06, 2021, 11:51:04 PM
			

			

				Beat Man U, for once. Worry about bringing the kids through after that.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on May 07, 2021, 12:42:27 AM
			

			

				I'd love to see Barry get some minutes in the last few games. Of course he's still developing but way he took his goal v experienced Liverpool defence was very special.

In the long run we'll send a few of them out on loan next season I think. That's pretty much why we appointed Jedinak so up to him to find the right clubs for them to get 20-30 starts as they'll come back better for it.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Allan C on May 07, 2021, 03:21:26 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: SamTheMouse on May 06, 2021, 08:34:00 PM
If he did play the kids and they got slaughtered, so would he. I can see why he's going with what he feels is his best team. 

Anyway, he's bringing Ramsey through nicely, which would suggest he's not averse to integrating the youngsters when he feels they are ready.
Great point, the management of Ramsey has been excellent and will be beneficial to the player in the long run. He clearly isn’t ready for 90 minutes week in week out yet. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on May 09, 2021, 04:31:34 PM
			

			

				How many points have we lost from winning positions?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Toronto Villa on May 09, 2021, 04:39:09 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: ChicagoLion on May 09, 2021, 04:31:34 PM
How many points have we lost from winning positions?

Compared to years gone by that we were in winning positions should be commended, no?

#silverlinings
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on May 09, 2021, 04:40:52 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Toronto Villa on May 09, 2021, 04:39:09 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on May 09, 2021, 04:31:34 PM
How many points have we lost from winning positions?

Compared to years gone by that we were in winning positions should be commended, no?

#silverlinings
I just don’t think he is proactive enough and it’s becoming a bad habit.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Uknowthescore on May 09, 2021, 04:43:00 PM
			

			

				We’ve gone 1-0 up in our last 5 games and won 1 drawn 1 against a shit West Brom and lost 3. Not good enough 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on May 09, 2021, 04:45:27 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: ChicagoLion on May 09, 2021, 04:31:34 PM
How many points have we lost from winning positions?

Hardly any up to the Burnley game. Since then it's mainly just been against the likely top 4 at end of the season, we held on for wins v Leeds, Southampton and Everton in last three months.

It's night and day compared to last season.

More of a problem is we get very few points when we're losing with half an hour left.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: villa for life on May 09, 2021, 05:18:21 PM
			

			

				In recent interviews, Dean has been on and on about how he had a complete group of novices last season and how much of a challenge it was to stay up. I’ve actually never seen him admit that he’s a complete novice who has just as much to learn.

I think our squad is way better than what it is currently showing, and he should own it...


Luiz used to be good .

McGinn used to be amazing

Martinez is not at the same standard he was

Barkley is nowhere near what he was when he first joined.

I think Cash is also not as good as earlier in the season.

Watkins would get more goals in a better system.

Traore could be much more consistent.

We are so quick to blame players, but a coach’s job is  to “coach”. In other words Improve players.. 

So I ask 

how many of our players have improved this season.(from last season or if they are new from when they first joined?

For me: just one player / Matt Targett , possibly Konsa 


			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: CT on May 09, 2021, 05:21:02 PM
			

			

				“Possibly Konsa”. 

Possibly??
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Mister E on May 09, 2021, 05:22:40 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: villa for life on May 09, 2021, 05:18:21 PM
In recent interviews, Dean has been on and on about how he had a complete group of novices last season and how much of a challenge it was to stay up. I’ve actually never seen him admit that he’s a complete novice who has just as much to learn.

I think our squad is way better than what it is currently showing, and he should own it...
...
I think they just look knackered - not enough quality to rotate players, and not enough cover to keep players on their toes.
Deano would probably admit that he is on a massive learning curve as well as the players.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: villa for life on May 09, 2021, 05:23:41 PM
			

			

				Don’t get you. Yes, possibly. He was always brilliant 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: brontebilly on May 09, 2021, 05:24:08 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: villa for life on May 09, 2021, 05:18:21 PM
In recent interviews, Dean has been on and on about how he had a complete group of novices last season and how much of a challenge it was to stay up. I’ve actually never seen him admit that he’s a complete novice who has just as much to learn.

I think our squad is way better than what it is currently showing, and he should own it...


Luiz used to be good .

McGinn used to be amazing

Martinez is not at the same standard he was

Barkley is nowhere near what he was when he first joined.

I think Cash is also not as good as earlier in the season.

Watkins would get more goals in a better system.

Traore could be much more consistent.

We are so quick to blame players, but a coach’s job is  to “coach”. In other words Improve players.. 

So I ask 

how many of our players have improved this season.(from last season or if they are new from when they first joined?

For me: just one player / Matt Targett , possibly Konsa

The novices last season included Deano himself whose tactics were insane at times (Grealish at 8 early in season for example). Konsa and Targett particularly have improved out of all recognition this season. His signings in the main have improved the starting team significantly. 

Luiz for me is the big worry, he has regressed alarmingly from his post restart form. McGinn was only ever amazing in the championship. Thought he played well today, mind. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: CT on May 09, 2021, 05:24:23 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: villa for life on May 09, 2021, 05:23:41 PM
Don’t get you. Yes, possibly. He was always brilliant 

You think he’s no better this season than last season? 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: jwarry on May 09, 2021, 05:24:46 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: villa for life on May 09, 2021, 05:18:21 PM
In recent interviews, Dean has been on and on about how he had a complete group of novices last season and how much of a challenge it was to stay up. I’ve actually never seen him admit that he’s a complete novice who has just as much to learn.

I think our squad is way better than what it is currently showing, and he should own it...


Luiz used to be good .

McGinn used to be amazing

Martinez is not at the same standard he was

Barkley is nowhere near what he was when he first joined.

I think Cash is also not as good as earlier in the season.

Watkins would get more goals in a better system.

Traore could be much more consistent.

We are so quick to blame players, but a coach’s job is  to “coach”. In other words Improve players.. 

So I ask 

how many of our players have improved this season.(from last season or if they are new from when they first joined?

For me: just one player / Matt Targett , possibly Konsa 



Jesus Christ I bet you struggle to get out of bed in the morning 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: N'ZMAV on May 09, 2021, 05:27:32 PM
			

			

				Smith needs to be able to switch systems, but to be able to do that he needs better players - the squad depth isn't there - some games when some of our average players have their occasional good game it makes the depth appear better. When realistically, we have one good striker, no real quality in centre midfield or out wide on a consistent basis if Grealish isn't available. It's difficult to finish in the top ten with one system and only a handful of good players. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on May 09, 2021, 05:34:40 PM
			

			

				How many managers actually change systems?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on May 09, 2021, 05:36:21 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on May 09, 2021, 05:34:40 PM
How many managers actually change systems?

and more importantly how often does it improve things?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: villa for life on May 09, 2021, 05:38:42 PM
			

			

				Jwarry , instead of a snarky comment, why not talk football? And if I do struggle to get out of bed, that’s certainly nothing to make fun of..

Just a frank discussion: 
Which players are playing better than they have ever been or have massively improved? (I bet, Leeds fans could name a fair few)
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: villadelph on May 09, 2021, 05:43:41 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: villa for life on May 09, 2021, 05:38:42 PM
Jwarry , instead of a snarky comment, why not talk football? And if I do struggle to get out of bed, that’s certainly nothing to make fun of..

Just a frank discussion: 
Which players are playing better than they have ever been or have massively improved? (I bet, Leeds fans could name a fair few)

Jack became one of the best players in the league under his tutelage, McGinn became a PL mainstay, Ollie works hard and leads the line with no experience at this level, Konsa has been phenomenal for the majority of the season, Targett has been great and Cash coming into his own.. This club is on an upward trajectory. A few favorable moves in the summer and we can continue to push on. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: N'ZMAV on May 09, 2021, 05:43:42 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on May 09, 2021, 05:34:40 PM
How many managers actually change systems?
 Guardiola and Rodgers have a few times this season. Even Moyes has been doing it too. 

Always a good idea to have a plan B. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: N'ZMAV on May 09, 2021, 05:44:12 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: paul_e on May 09, 2021, 05:36:21 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on May 09, 2021, 05:34:40 PM
How many managers actually change systems?

and more importantly how often does it improve things?
 not sure. What stats you got? 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Clampy on May 09, 2021, 05:44:38 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: villa for life on May 09, 2021, 05:38:42 PM
Jwarry , instead of a snarky comment, why not talk football? And if I do struggle to get out of bed, that’s certainly nothing to make fun of..

Just a frank discussion: 
Which players are playing better than they have ever been or have massively improved? (I bet, Leeds fans could name a fair few)

If you think there has been no improvement in certain players, then you haven't been watching properly. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: N'ZMAV on May 09, 2021, 05:46:20 PM
			

			

				Targett, Grealish, Konsa are playing better this season. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: villa for life on May 09, 2021, 05:55:20 PM
			

			

				So 3- I’d pretty much agree with that 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: N'ZMAV on May 09, 2021, 05:57:21 PM
			

			

				Cash and Martinez have had good spells - but didn't really see much of either last season to know if they've played better. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Clampy on May 09, 2021, 05:58:12 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: N'ZMAV on May 09, 2021, 05:57:21 PM
Cash and Martinez have had good spells - but didn't really see much of either last season to know if they've played better. 

They were not here last season, that's why and Martinez didn't play that much for Arsenal anyway did he? 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on May 09, 2021, 05:58:30 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: villa for life on May 09, 2021, 05:38:42 PM
Jwarry , instead of a snarky comment, why not talk football? And if I do struggle to get out of bed, that’s certainly nothing to make fun of..

Just a frank discussion: 
Which players are playing better than they have ever been or have massively improved? (I bet, Leeds fans could name a fair few)

It's a bit of a silly question though really. As a squad we're miles ahead of where we were when Smith came in and currently we're in a spell of poor form with no much to play for and one of the best players in the league out injured, most of our squad has played well in spells this season and we will be getting our best league placing for a decade with a team made mostly of players young enough to keep improving.

On individuals Konsa is clearly a better player now than he was when he joined, Targett has improved massively, Cash has had a solid first season, Mings has been generally very good, Martinez is probably the best keeper in the league, Grealish has had his best ever season, so has el ghazi, Bert has settled in pretty well but has things to work on, ditto Watkins. We've also brought Ramsey through from promising youngster to match day squad regular and he doesn't look out of place, Davis has had an impact in most games he's come on in the last month or 2.

The players we've seen regularly this season that are missing there show the problem pretty clearly, Barkley has been really disappointing, McGinn has been hit and miss and Luiz started the season really well but has struggled since the covid outbreak. If the 3 main starters in midfield are all struggling to impose themselves in games and the alternatives are a 19 year old kid, a limited ball winning midfielder and a guy who's currently injured and was bought with an eye on next season rather than what he would bring immediately then you're not going to see us at our best. This is why addressing the midfield options is far and away the most important thing that needs to happen in the summer.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: villa for life on May 09, 2021, 05:58:53 PM
			

			

				So three!
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on May 09, 2021, 06:02:41 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: N'ZMAV on May 09, 2021, 05:44:12 PM
Quote from: paul_e on May 09, 2021, 05:36:21 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on May 09, 2021, 05:34:40 PM
How many managers actually change systems?

and more importantly how often does it improve things?
 not sure. What stats you got? 

None, because I think it's the job of the people making claims (that we'd be better if Smith changed things more) to provide stats proving their point. Oh and 'it couldn't have been any worse' isn't a reasonable argument.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: dave.woodhall on May 09, 2021, 06:03:00 PM
			

			

				The team aren't doing as well as they were at the start of the season so naturally individuals aren't doing as well as they were then. You can't just pick one arbitary point and say that's the timescale everyone has to be judged against - the defence is unrecognisable from twelve months ago, our forward line is vastly improved and midfield is currently missing one of the best players in the world. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: jwarry on May 09, 2021, 06:03:19 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: jwarry on May 09, 2021, 05:24:46 PM
Quote from: villa for life on May 09, 2021, 05:18:21 PM
In recent interviews, Dean has been on and on about how he had a complete group of novices last season and how much of a challenge it was to stay up. I’ve actually never seen him admit that he’s a complete novice who has just as much to learn.

I think our squad is way better than what it is currently showing, and he should own it...


Luiz used to be good .

McGinn used to be amazing

Martinez is not at the same standard he was

Barkley is nowhere near what he was when he first joined.

I think Cash is also not as good as earlier in the season.

Watkins would get more goals in a better system.

Traore could be much more consistent.

We are so quick to blame players, but a coach’s job is  to “coach”. In other words Improve players.. 

So I ask 

how many of our players have improved this season.(from last season or if they are new from when they first joined?

For me: just one player / Matt Targett , possibly Konsa 



Jesus Christ I bet you struggle to get out of bed in the morning 

I wasn’t being ‘snarky’ I am generally dumbfounded by your negativity.  Compared to last season I have thoroughly enjoyed watching my team this season.  I saw the emergence of a fantastic back four, a potential world class striker on our books, a top class keeper, a young 19 year old break into the team (usually unheard of for us), and of course SuperJack break into the England tram where he belongs.  Not to mention some unbelievable results along the way.  So yes I think you are being astonishingly negative 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Clampy on May 09, 2021, 06:03:43 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: villa for life on May 09, 2021, 05:58:53 PM
So three!

It's an improvement on your original one. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: jwarry on May 09, 2021, 06:04:22 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: villa for life on May 09, 2021, 05:38:42 PM
Jwarry , instead of a snarky comment, why not talk football? And if I do struggle to get out of bed, that’s certainly nothing to make fun of..

Just a frank discussion: 
Which players are playing better than they have ever been or have massively improved? (I bet, Leeds fans could name a fair few)

I wasn’t being ‘snarky’ I am generally dumbfounded by your negativity.  Compared to last season I have thoroughly enjoyed watching my team this season.  I saw the emergence of a fantastic back four, a potential world class striker on our books, a top class keeper, a young 19 year old break into the team (usually unheard of for us), and of course SuperJack break into the England tram where he belongs.  Not to mention some unbelievable results along the way.  So yes I think you are being astonishingly negative

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: villa for life on May 09, 2021, 06:06:18 PM
			

			

				The point is, Aston Villa are better than they were last season because we have added better players. Watkins, Cash 

But the point still stands, which players have actually improved. Konsa, Targett and Grealish. - only. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: villadelph on May 09, 2021, 06:09:27 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: villa for life on May 09, 2021, 06:06:18 PM
The point is, Aston Villa are better than they were last season because we have added better players. Watkins, Cash 

But the point still stands, which players have actually improved. Konsa, Targett and Grealish. - only.

Ollie Watkins got called up to England, and Mings has been with the squad for months? Emi is one of the best keepers in the league? El Ghazi, while ineffective at times, has provided some extremely important goals this season? Matty Cash is playing every game he is available, in his first year at this level. 

Do you think this all happens by chance? Our trajectory, internal morale and ambitions shouldn't go amiss. There's more to the managerial job than the 90 minutes on a Sunday. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: cdbearsfan on May 09, 2021, 06:11:04 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: N'ZMAV on May 09, 2021, 05:46:20 PM
Targett, Grealish, Konsa are playing better this season.

El Ghazi too, and you could make a case for Mings. Plus, while we don't have a huge sample of games to judge them, Davis and Hause have been better in their cameos then they often were last season.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Clampy on May 09, 2021, 06:11:22 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: villa for life on May 09, 2021, 06:06:18 PM
The point is, Aston Villa are better than they were last season because we have added better players. Watkins, Cash 

But the point still stands, which players have actually improved. Konsa, Targett and Grealish. - only. 

But that's fine. I think McGinn has worked his arse off too. We're going to finish in a reasonable position and it's progress from the year before. A lot of people would have taken that. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Exeter 77 on May 09, 2021, 06:12:46 PM
			

			

				It wouldn’t surprise me to see Dean fined after some points he made in this interview.
https://twitter.com/AVFCOfficial/status/1391438816922144773?s=19
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: CT on May 09, 2021, 06:13:17 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: villa for life on May 09, 2021, 06:06:18 PM
The point is, Aston Villa are better than they were last season because we have added better players. Watkins, Cash 

But the point still stands, which players have actually improved. Konsa, Targett and Grealish. - only. 

You said “possibly” on Konsa. 

Now you’re saying he HAS improved, which I think everyone would agree, is absolutely the case.  
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: villadelph on May 09, 2021, 06:14:29 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Exeter 77 on May 09, 2021, 06:12:46 PM
It wouldn’t surprise me to see Dean fined after some points he made in this interview.
https://twitter.com/AVFCOfficial/status/1391438816922144773?s=19

I love it. 

"I'm fed up talking about penalty decisions, or dubious penalty decisions, against Manchester United."
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: N'ZMAV on May 09, 2021, 06:17:22 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on May 09, 2021, 06:11:04 PM
Quote from: N'ZMAV on May 09, 2021, 05:46:20 PM
Targett, Grealish, Konsa are playing better this season.

El Ghazi too, and you could make a case for Mings. Plus, while we don't have a huge sample of games to judge them, Davis and Hause have been better in their cameos then they often were last season.
 Mings hasn't been any worse - our expectation of players is probably too high at times, I think we always expect players to get better every season. Which, is probably a little difficult for them. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: villa for life on May 09, 2021, 06:17:54 PM
			

			

				 I’m not debating if players are good or not. Is Mings better than he was? Martinez is amazing, but I’d argue not performing as well as he was in early season. Ditto for Watkins. ( massive fan, though) I think these players are good and they could be greater... 

I’m thinking of what we can do to be top six/ four.

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Clampy on May 09, 2021, 06:19:32 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Exeter 77 on May 09, 2021, 06:12:46 PM
It wouldn’t surprise me to see Dean fined after some points he made in this interview.
https://twitter.com/AVFCOfficial/status/1391438816922144773?s=19

I don't see why, he was pretty much spot on. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: villa for life on May 09, 2021, 06:22:39 PM
			

			

				CT- you are missing the point -  Konsa has always been amazing, so it’s hard for him to improve. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on May 09, 2021, 06:25:39 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: villa for life on May 09, 2021, 06:17:54 PM
 I’m not debating if players are good or not. Is Mings better than he was? Martinez is amazing, but I’d argue not performing as well as he was in early season. Ditto for Watkins. ( massive fan, though) I think these players are good and they could be greater... 

I’m thinking of what we can do to be top six/ four.


Mings is better than he was last season.
Martinez is playing just as well, we've just been conceding more shots so more goals against.
Watkins has suffered a little because we've had a slump in form but he's still been superb.


More importantly during a season changes in performance are mostly down to form and confidence, given the timing of games most training during a season is either recovery from games and working on specifics ahead of the next fixture. Improving fitness levels and technical skills happens in the summer and, as we saw this season, that's something Smith has shown he can do.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on May 09, 2021, 06:26:56 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: villa for life on May 09, 2021, 06:22:39 PM
CT- you are missing the point -  Konsa has always been amazing, so it’s hard for him to improve. 

If it's hard for him to improve what is your point given you were trying to suggest Smith has failed for not improving him? 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: CT on May 09, 2021, 06:27:07 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: villa for life on May 09, 2021, 06:22:39 PM
CT- you are missing the point -  Konsa has always been amazing, so it’s hard for him to improve. 

I’m not missing the point at all. 

You honestly think Konsa was “amazing” last season? You don’t think he’s improved? 

Was he being talked about for England recognition last season? 

I think it’s blatantly clear he’s improved hugely this season and is our best defender at the club. 

But yeah, if he was amazing last season, then it’s difficult to improve on amazing, I grant you that. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: villa for life on May 09, 2021, 06:28:48 PM
			

			

				I’ve always rated Konsa. He’s always been the best defender at the club. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: CT on May 09, 2021, 06:31:55 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: villa for life on May 09, 2021, 06:28:48 PM
I’ve always rated Konsa. He’s always been the best defender at the club. 

So we could agree then that it’s pretty tough for Dean to make an already amazing player, better than amazing. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: villa for life on May 09, 2021, 06:33:52 PM
			

			

				Paul-e I wasn’t saying smith is at fault for not improving Konsa. He’s already good! 

I’m saying it’s a pity about the other players who have the ability to be better, or who were once better than they are currently showing , 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: villa for life on May 09, 2021, 06:36:33 PM
			

			

				CT- yes, you are slowly catching on! 

I’m talking about how very few players have improved this season. Some have been found- they remain good, some have been ok- they remain ok. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: CT on May 09, 2021, 06:39:41 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: villa for life on May 09, 2021, 06:36:33 PM
CT- yes, you are slowly catching on! 

I’m talking about how very few players have improved this season. Some have been found- they remain good, some have been ok- they remain ok. 

I’m not catching on at all. In fact, I’m losing the will. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Clampy on May 09, 2021, 06:44:45 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: villa for life on May 09, 2021, 06:33:52 PM
Paul-e I wasn’t saying smith is at fault for not improving Konsa. He’s already good! 

I’m saying it’s a pity about the other players who have the ability to be better, or who were once better than they are currently showing , 

But we have improved as a whole. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: villa `cross the mersey on May 09, 2021, 06:46:43 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: villadelph on May 09, 2021, 06:14:29 PM
Quote from: Exeter 77 on May 09, 2021, 06:12:46 PM
It wouldn’t surprise me to see Dean fined after some points he made in this interview.
https://twitter.com/AVFCOfficial/status/1391438816922144773?s=19

I love it. 

"I'm fed up talking about penalty decisions, or dubious penalty decisions, against Manchester United."
I'd like to think the club lodged a formal complaint that a Manc was allowed to officiate a Manchester club match - 
But that doesn't change  fact that our record against this club is embarrassing ..... and that us blaming biased officials would be seen as "small time"  by fans of other clubs
Like many on here I detest this particular fixture but if we are looking to be considered a " big club" we need to start matching up to this lot 





			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on May 09, 2021, 06:50:26 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: villa for life on May 09, 2021, 06:33:52 PM
Paul-e I wasn’t saying smith is at fault for not improving Konsa. He’s already good! 

I’m saying it’s a pity about the other players who have the ability to be better, or who were once better than they are currently showing , 

So your blaming him for players losing form during a season and ignoring the fact that most of those players are better now than they were 12months ago. So not really much a point worth discussing.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SamTheMouse on May 09, 2021, 07:00:36 PM
			

			

				I think nearly all of the players have improved to some extent. You can't just judge them on a few games, you have to assess over whole seasons. 

Dean's doing fine. There will be ups and downs and periods of bad or indifferent form, which we will naturally get arsey about. That's the nature of football. But I'd rather we build slowly and steadily for the long term, than have one great season and then plummet back down like Sheffield Utd. From what I can see, that's exactly what we're doing. I expect there will be some more investment in the summer to keep that process going. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Rigadon on May 09, 2021, 07:01:58 PM
			

			

				He's done a fucking great job.  I'm not completely sure he's the man to make us winners again, but I want him to be very much.  
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: N'ZMAV on May 09, 2021, 07:06:50 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Rigadon on May 09, 2021, 07:01:58 PM
He's done a fucking great job.  I'm not completely sure he's the man to make us winners again, but I want him to be very much.  
 Yep.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: villa for life on May 09, 2021, 07:06:57 PM
			

			

				“Most of these players are better than they were 12 months ago”

Who?

Martinez - always good, not quite as good as early season.

Cash - huge improvement on Elmo - looked good from the very start, doesn’t look better than early season. 

Mings- Good but a mistake in in him most games. Wouldn’t say he’s any better than before 

Konsa- always good- still good

Targett - improved - no doubt.

Luiz- worse than before 

McGinn- - played out of position, not as effective as before.

AEG/Trez/Traore- all performing at similar standards.

Barkley- worse than when he joined.

Watkins- huge Defoe like potential. Wouldn’t say he’s performing  better than early season though..

All in all, what I’m trying to say is the improvement in league positions is more a result of the massive investment from the owners than due to coaching methods and improving players. Is that really such a controversial opinion?


			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: danno on May 09, 2021, 07:14:29 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: villa for life on May 09, 2021, 07:06:57 PM
All in all, what I’m trying to say is the improvement in league positions is more a result of the massive investment from the owners than due to coaching methods and improving players. Is that really such a controversial opinion?

So do we credit him with identifying said players instead ?
Dean Smith is probably the first manager in ten years* whose record in the transfer market is more hit than miss.

*yes its Probably longer, but do we really need to go over MON transfers again?  :)
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Steve67 on May 09, 2021, 07:18:07 PM
			

			

				I hope we don't get caught by Wolves and Palace.  I can deal with finishing 11th after last season but don't want us to finish lower than those two teams. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Toronto Villa on May 09, 2021, 07:20:43 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Clampy on May 09, 2021, 06:19:32 PM
Quote from: Exeter 77 on May 09, 2021, 06:12:46 PM
It wouldn’t surprise me to see Dean fined after some points he made in this interview.
https://twitter.com/AVFCOfficial/status/1391438816922144773?s=19

I don't see why, he was pretty much spot on. 


He’s saying what every other manager is thinking. And every other fan base whose team ends up playing Man U and gets fucked over. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: villa for life on May 09, 2021, 07:20:53 PM
			

			

				Yes, identifying players is, I think, one of Smith’s strengths. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Exeter 77 on May 09, 2021, 07:45:44 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Clampy on May 09, 2021, 06:19:32 PM
Quote from: Exeter 77 on May 09, 2021, 06:12:46 PM
It wouldn’t surprise me to see Dean fined after some points he made in this interview.
https://twitter.com/AVFCOfficial/status/1391438816922144773?s=19

I don't see why, he was pretty much spot on. 
I agree with you but the FA probably won't see it like that as he doesn't manage one of the ESL 6.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Clampy on May 09, 2021, 07:56:52 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: villa for life on May 09, 2021, 07:06:57 PM
“Most of these players are better than they were 12 months ago”

Who?

Martinez - always good, not quite as good as early season.

Cash - huge improvement on Elmo - looked good from the very start, doesn’t look better than early season. 

Mings- Good but a mistake in in him most games. Wouldn’t say he’s any better than before 

Konsa- always good- still good

Targett - improved - no doubt.

Luiz- worse than before 

McGinn- - played out of position, not as effective as before.

AEG/Trez/Traore- all performing at similar standards.

Barkley- worse than when he joined.

Watkins- huge Defoe like potential. Wouldn’t say he’s performing  better than early season though..

All in all, what I’m trying to say is the improvement in league positions is more a result of the massive investment from the owners than due to coaching methods and improving players. Is that really such a controversial opinion?



No, its not as long as you realise people will disagree with you. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: mr underhill on May 09, 2021, 08:11:52 PM
			

			

				Compared to us leeds have spent pocket money. And they are aove us in their first season back for years.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on May 09, 2021, 08:22:21 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: mr underhill on May 09, 2021, 08:11:52 PM
Compared to us leeds have spent pocket money. And they are aove us in their first season back for years.

and?

Compared to us Sheffield United spent pocket money and were above us in their first season back in years.

We're not on the same path as either so the comparisons are utterly pointless.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: mr underhill on May 10, 2021, 07:25:59 AM
			

			

				So predictable - close down an alternative thought because it doesn't conform to yours - which is based on some sort of Mystic Meg fortune telling. How can you possible know what path we are on? 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Clampy on May 10, 2021, 07:32:55 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: mr underhill on May 10, 2021, 07:25:59 AM
So predictable - close down an alternative thought because it doesn't conform to yours - which is based on some sort of Mystic Meg fortune telling. How can you possible know what path we are on? 

What path do you think we are on? 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Nev on May 10, 2021, 07:42:23 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on May 09, 2021, 06:46:43 PM
Quote from: villadelph on May 09, 2021, 06:14:29 PM
Quote from: Exeter 77 on May 09, 2021, 06:12:46 PM
It wouldn’t surprise me to see Dean fined after some points he made in this interview.
https://twitter.com/AVFCOfficial/status/1391438816922144773?s=19

I love it. 

"I'm fed up talking about penalty decisions, or dubious penalty decisions, against Manchester United."
I'd like to think the club lodged a formal complaint that a Manc was allowed to officiate a Manchester club match - 
But that doesn't change  fact that our record against this club is embarrassing ..... and that us blaming biased officials would be seen as "small time"  by fans of other clubs
Like many on here I detest this particular fixture but if we are looking to be considered a " big club" we need to start matching up to this lot 






Crucially Smith didn't blame the defeat on the officials, he may have questioned the decisions but certainly he also questioned our approach, particularly after the penalty.
To blame the officials is the sort of cowardly shithousing we see from the likes of Allardyce and Warnock and has lead us to the mess that is VAR.

They had better quality than us, that's why they won and yes, we need to compete with that by having better players.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: dave shelley on May 10, 2021, 09:07:47 AM
			

			

				VCM, re referee's appointments.  It used to be that referee's had to make known their allegiance/support for their preferred club when being appointed to the higher end of the football pyramid.  They would be then allocated matches on their geographical domicile, so yesterday's official, although a Manc, for whatever reason could be say, a Plymouth fan living in Manchester could quite possibly be given games involving any club in the Manchester area but never a match involving Plymouth Argyle.

I hope this clears things up a bit for you and I hope you are keeping well.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Allan C on May 10, 2021, 09:59:00 AM
			

			

				I think the comparisons with Leeds and Bielsa are ridiculous so I’m going to turn them on their head. Bielsa has vast experience as a coach, managing some top club and international teams over many years. Despite this, with a similar squad, Leeds are only two points ahead of Dean Smith’s Villa, at the beginning of his managerial career previously coaching Walsall and Brentford and we have a game in hand. To go a step further, just two points ahead of Leeds we have a self proclaimed “big six” club Arsenal with a Guardiola apprentice, arguably the best coach ever, at the helm, a meagre four points ahead of same Dean Smith. I think I know why I’m happy with our manager.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on May 10, 2021, 10:04:05 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Allan C on May 10, 2021, 09:59:00 AM
I think the comparisons with Leeds and Bielsa are ridiculous so I’m going to turn them on their head. Bielsa has vast experience as a coach, managing some top club and international teams over many years. Despite this, with a similar squad, Leeds are only two points ahead of Dean Smith’s Villa, at the beginning of his managerial career previously coaching Walsall and Brentford and we have a game in hand. To go a step further, just two points ahead of Leeds we have a self proclaimed “big six” club Arsenal with a Guardiola apprentice, arguably the best coach ever, at the helm, a meagre four points ahead of same Dean Smith. I think I know why I’m happy with our manager.
So you are saying Smith is still learning, which explains why Bielsa is ahead with a less expensive squad and real identity to the way they play.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on May 10, 2021, 10:05:07 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Allan C on May 10, 2021, 09:59:00 AM
I think the comparisons with Leeds and Bielsa are ridiculous so I’m going to turn them on their head. Bielsa has vast experience as a coach, managing some top club and international teams over many years. Despite this, with a similar squad, Leeds are only two points ahead of Dean Smith’s Villa, at the beginning of his managerial career previously coaching Walsall and Brentford and we have a game in hand. To go a step further, just two points ahead of Leeds we have a self proclaimed “big six” club Arsenal with a Guardiola apprentice, arguably the best coach ever, at the helm, a meagre four points ahead of same Dean Smith. I think I know why I’m happy with our manager.

I like flip arguments/discussions like this.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: kippaxvilla2 on May 10, 2021, 10:29:16 AM
			

			

				It’s a must do better for me.  He’s had MON type resources transfer funds wise and we all know how that ended up.  Got to choose ready made PL upgrades this summer to complement the young ones like Konsa, Luiz, Watkins etc.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on May 10, 2021, 10:32:35 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on May 10, 2021, 10:29:16 AM
It’s a must do better for me.  He’s had MON type resources transfer funds wise and we all know how that ended up.  Got to choose ready made PL upgrades this summer to complement the young ones like Konsa, Luiz, Watkins etc.

He didn't. The recruitment team/s did.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: brontebilly on May 10, 2021, 10:34:23 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Allan C on May 10, 2021, 09:59:00 AM
I think the comparisons with Leeds and Bielsa are ridiculous so I’m going to turn them on their head. Bielsa has vast experience as a coach, managing some top club and international teams over many years. Despite this, with a similar squad, Leeds are only two points ahead of Dean Smith’s Villa, at the beginning of his managerial career previously coaching Walsall and Brentford and we have a game in hand. To go a step further, just two points ahead of Leeds we have a self proclaimed “big six” club Arsenal with a Guardiola apprentice, arguably the best coach ever, at the helm, a meagre four points ahead of same Dean Smith. I think I know why I’m happy with our manager.

Could also flip it to compare that Leeds in the first season in the division look set for a top half finish. We stayed up by a point. Leeds have also done it with far less of a budget and a distinct style of play. Our style of play appears based on the availability and fitness of one player, when he isn't available we don't have one. 

I do agree that comparing Smith to Bielsa is a bit unfair. Smith is just about on track with pre season expectations, the loss of his best player for 11? games also should be taken into account. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on May 10, 2021, 10:44:52 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: brontebilly on May 10, 2021, 10:34:23 AM
Quote from: Allan C on May 10, 2021, 09:59:00 AM
I think the comparisons with Leeds and Bielsa are ridiculous so I’m going to turn them on their head. Bielsa has vast experience as a coach, managing some top club and international teams over many years. Despite this, with a similar squad, Leeds are only two points ahead of Dean Smith’s Villa, at the beginning of his managerial career previously coaching Walsall and Brentford and we have a game in hand. To go a step further, just two points ahead of Leeds we have a self proclaimed “big six” club Arsenal with a Guardiola apprentice, arguably the best coach ever, at the helm, a meagre four points ahead of same Dean Smith. I think I know why I’m happy with our manager.

Could also flip it to compare that Leeds in the first season in the division look set for a top half finish. We stayed up by a point. Leeds have also done it with far less of a budget and a distinct style of play. Our style of play appears based on the availability and fitness of one player, when he isn't available we don't have one. 

I do agree that comparing Smith to Bielsa is a bit unfair. Smith is just about on track with pre season expectations, the loss of his best player for 11? games also should be taken into account.
Why is it unfair, who should we compare him to then?


			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on May 10, 2021, 10:47:51 AM
			

			

				You really are a pair of miserable gits! And I say this as someone who celebrates any personal triumphs with three days in bed.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Allan C on May 10, 2021, 10:49:26 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: ChicagoLion on May 10, 2021, 10:04:05 AM
Quote from: Allan C on May 10, 2021, 09:59:00 AM
I think the comparisons with Leeds and Bielsa are ridiculous so I’m going to turn them on their head. Bielsa has vast experience as a coach, managing some top club and international teams over many years. Despite this, with a similar squad, Leeds are only two points ahead of Dean Smith’s Villa, at the beginning of his managerial career previously coaching Walsall and Brentford and we have a game in hand. To go a step further, just two points ahead of Leeds we have a self proclaimed “big six” club Arsenal with a Guardiola apprentice, arguably the best coach ever, at the helm, a meagre four points ahead of same Dean Smith. I think I know why I’m happy with our manager.
So you are saying Smith is still learning, which explains why Bielsa is ahead with a less expensive squad and real identity to the way they play.
Yes of course Smith is learning yet will be ahead of Bielsa if we win our game in hand. Given the vast difference in managerial experience and the similarity of squads would you not agree that we’re in a great position with Smith??
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: dave.woodhall on May 10, 2021, 10:49:46 AM
			

			

				Bielsa has had more time with his squad. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on May 10, 2021, 10:51:35 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Allan C on May 10, 2021, 10:49:26 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on May 10, 2021, 10:04:05 AM
Quote from: Allan C on May 10, 2021, 09:59:00 AM
I think the comparisons with Leeds and Bielsa are ridiculous so I’m going to turn them on their head. Bielsa has vast experience as a coach, managing some top club and international teams over many years. Despite this, with a similar squad, Leeds are only two points ahead of Dean Smith’s Villa, at the beginning of his managerial career previously coaching Walsall and Brentford and we have a game in hand. To go a step further, just two points ahead of Leeds we have a self proclaimed “big six” club Arsenal with a Guardiola apprentice, arguably the best coach ever, at the helm, a meagre four points ahead of same Dean Smith. I think I know why I’m happy with our manager.
So you are saying Smith is still learning, which explains why Bielsa is ahead with a less expensive squad and real identity to the way they play.
Yes of course Smith is learning yet will be ahead of Bielsa if we win our game in hand. Given the vast difference in managerial experience and the similarity of squads would you not agree that we’re in a great position with Smith??
No
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Allan C on May 10, 2021, 10:53:18 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: ChicagoLion on May 10, 2021, 10:51:35 AM
Quote from: Allan C on May 10, 2021, 10:49:26 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on May 10, 2021, 10:04:05 AM
Quote from: Allan C on May 10, 2021, 09:59:00 AM
I think the comparisons with Leeds and Bielsa are ridiculous so I’m going to turn them on their head. Bielsa has vast experience as a coach, managing some top club and international teams over many years. Despite this, with a similar squad, Leeds are only two points ahead of Dean Smith’s Villa, at the beginning of his managerial career previously coaching Walsall and Brentford and we have a game in hand. To go a step further, just two points ahead of Leeds we have a self proclaimed “big six” club Arsenal with a Guardiola apprentice, arguably the best coach ever, at the helm, a meagre four points ahead of same Dean Smith. I think I know why I’m happy with our manager.
So you are saying Smith is still learning, which explains why Bielsa is ahead with a less expensive squad and real identity to the way they play.
Yes of course Smith is learning yet will be ahead of Bielsa if we win our game in hand. Given the vast difference in managerial experience and the similarity of squads would you not agree that we’re in a great position with Smith??
No
Is the wrong answer 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Clampy on May 10, 2021, 11:04:15 AM
			

			

				Some fans are just too hard to please. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: chrisw1 on May 10, 2021, 11:14:53 AM
			

			

				I like Smith a lot.  But I still feel it's perfectly reasonable to criticise the second half of our season, both with and without Jack.  We've always seemed to gone on streaks of form with Smith but half a season of broadly relegation form isn't good enough.

Right now not many magers would compare favourably to Bielsa. In their fiirst season back in the PL for 16 years he has them playing some excellent football and comfortably midtable.  I think thats an excellent achievement. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on May 10, 2021, 11:16:27 AM
			

			

				Bielsa has been with Leeds longer, had most of HIS squad in place before promotion and carried the momentum of winning the league that meant his summer signings were from a similar pool to ours, 1 year earlier.

Smith had to focus on numbers and bedding in a completely new squad in his first season and could focus on adding quality this year. Given there's still every chance we'll finish above Leeds anyway I don't think there's much between the 2 teams. Do people really expect the team that finishes 17th in the premier league to be starting from a significantly higher base than the team that wins the championship?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Clampy on May 10, 2021, 11:17:41 AM
			

			

				I wouldn't say we are in a great position but we're not in a bad place either.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on May 10, 2021, 11:37:39 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Clampy on May 10, 2021, 11:17:41 AM
I wouldn't say we are in a great position but we're not in a bad place either.

that's about where i see it to 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on May 10, 2021, 12:00:47 PM
			

			

				Even with Jack in the team we still lost 8 of the 14 games we've lost so far this season. Most Villa fans would have accepted a mid-table position if it was offered to them at the start of the season. We are on a trajectory upwards and wherever we finish this season Dean will have to improve on next season to match the ambitions of our owners. If he doesn't I feel sure he will hold his hands up and accept any consequences. UTV!

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: LeeB on May 10, 2021, 12:13:39 PM
			

			

				Smith outperformed Bielsa two years ago when he took over without pre-season and got us promoted ahead of them. If we'd have had an extra year we'd have come up with a more rounded squad and would've been more comfortable than we were last year. If's and but's and all that.

Bielsa is a world class coach that the best managers in the world idolise, seems a bit unfair to compare Deano to him when he has had a different job to do in a more condensed period. Plus, the minute he leaves Leeds they'll sink back down to where they come from, whereas we're just getting started.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on May 10, 2021, 12:36:20 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: john e on May 10, 2021, 11:37:39 AM
Quote from: Clampy on May 10, 2021, 11:17:41 AM
I wouldn't say we are in a great position but we're not in a bad place either.

that's about where i see it to
same here
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on May 10, 2021, 12:53:52 PM
			

			

				Martinez has done better this season than last.
Cash is doing better all the time
Konsa is way better than last season
Mings is getting far more consistent
Targett is arguably the most improved player in the division
McGinn doesn't appear as good as he did because he isn't the stand-out player that he was.
Luiz is getting better yet is still prone to the odd mistake. But he gets stuck in.
Grealish is better this season than last.
AEG is better and more consistent, and scoring goals.
Traore has improved as the season has progressed in my view, still needs to work on his defensive skills mind.
Watkins seems to be on a steep trajectory.
Trez was being lauded earlier this season, had a dip then came again and unfortunately got injured.
Davis has scored a goal and provided an assist in relatively low minutes on the pitch and people would like him to play. 
Ramsay is doing better all the time.
We've other youngsters coming through too.

So yes, I think Smith is doing a good job. We've just hit a patch, without one of the world's best players, where it's not going our way. On our day though, we're a match for anyone.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: AV82EC on May 10, 2021, 12:57:00 PM
			

			

				I'd agree with Drummond on virtually every assessment above apart from El Ghazi.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Bobby Boy on May 10, 2021, 01:23:07 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Drummond on May 10, 2021, 12:53:52 PM
Martinez has done better this season than last.
Cash is doing better all the time
Konsa is way better than last season
Mings is getting far more consistent
Targett is arguably the most improved player in the division
McGinn doesn't appear as good as he did because he isn't the stand-out player that he was.
Luiz is getting better yet is still prone to the odd mistake. But he gets stuck in.
Grealish is better this season than last.
AEG is better and more consistent, and scoring goals.
Traore has improved as the season has progressed in my view, still needs to work on his defensive skills mind.
Watkins seems to be on a steep trajectory.
Trez was being lauded earlier this season, had a dip then came again and unfortunately got injured.
Davis has scored a goal and provided an assist in relatively low minutes on the pitch and people would like him to play. 
Ramsay is doing better all the time.
We've other youngsters coming through too.

So yes, I think Smith is doing a good job. We've just hit a patch, without one of the world's best players, where it's not going our way. On our day though, we're a match for anyone.

In terms of individual improvements I'd agree with you but I worry about how open we are as a collective.

Every time I watch us I feel that we are played through too easily. The opposition is allowed to create chances and get in good positions far too often without having to work for it and Dean has got to look at this otherwise we will struggle to move forward.

The defence has bailed us out routinely with last minute blocks and interceptions. 

I'd like Dean to set up to make us compact at times, hard to create chances against.

System or personnel? I'm not convinced that Barkley, Traore and El Ghazi will ever have what it takes to carry out the defensive part of the game. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on May 10, 2021, 01:32:47 PM
			

			

				Football Insider reckoning that Mendes is lining up Nuno Santo for us. What a crock of shit, and the BBC keeps on giving them oxygen.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on May 10, 2021, 01:35:11 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: AV82EC on May 10, 2021, 12:57:00 PM
I'd agree with Drummond on virtually every assessment above apart from El Ghazi.

He's a tough one, he hasn't been brilliant but he's been very effective at times and that has won us points, that's 2 things I'd like in all of our attacking squad players.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on May 10, 2021, 01:37:16 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: paul_e on May 10, 2021, 01:35:11 PM
Quote from: AV82EC on May 10, 2021, 12:57:00 PM
I'd agree with Drummond on virtually every assessment above apart from El Ghazi.

He's a tough one, he hasn't been brilliant but he's been very effective at times and that has won us points, that's 2 things I'd like in all of our attacking squad players.

It is. And I wasn't sure, but he's scored more goals for us than many strikers have over the years. And he tries. Overall he's not the best out there but he's better than he was.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on May 10, 2021, 01:48:24 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: paul_e on May 10, 2021, 01:35:11 PM
Quote from: AV82EC on May 10, 2021, 12:57:00 PM
I'd agree with Drummond on virtually every assessment above apart from El Ghazi.

He's a tough one, he hasn't been brilliant but he's been very effective at times and that has won us points, that's 2 things I'd like in all of our attacking squad players.

Would you give him a new deal out of interest Paul?

I think that's the issue we have with a few of our 2019 intake now.

Likes of Engels, Freddie, AEG, Nakamba and Hause all got two years left on their deal I think.

Obviously no brainer to keep someone like Hause as back up as he's happy part of prem squad and did an excellent job when needed with those 4-5 games over xmas.

For the others I suspect we'll be looking to move them all on bar AEG but even he's difficult to call. Has stats of 15-20m player this season so his value will never be higher.

We keep him but obviously sign better and he will play much less next season and at that point have 12 months left.

It's important in the long run we just don't rely on the owners to keep pumping in 100m every single summer. The likes of Chelsea regularly sell their endless loan players and get in 40-50m most summers so they've become a bit more self sufficent so we've got that opportunity ourselves.

Can't see the point of hanging onto Gulibert and Nakamba just for them to play league cup next year.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on May 10, 2021, 01:54:03 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: paul_e on May 10, 2021, 11:16:27 AM
Bielsa has been with Leeds longer, had most of HIS squad in place before promotion and carried the momentum of winning the league that meant his summer signings were from a similar pool to ours, 1 year earlier.

Smith had to focus on numbers and bedding in a completely new squad in his first season and could focus on adding quality this year. Given there's still every chance we'll finish above Leeds anyway I don't think there's much between the 2 teams. Do people really expect the team that finishes 17th in the premier league to be starting from a significantly higher base than the team that wins the championship?

Wasn't that Leeds squad finishing mid table when he took over whereas DS still had the baulk of the 3rd place 17/18 to work with so have to factor that in a bit aswell.

Bielsa and Smith have both done very well last 2-3 years. However think the debate is which one can really kick on over next 2 years with more spending.

Interesting looking at leeds and considering many were slaughtering how bad defensively they were mid season they've just played Chelsea, Man. United, Man. City, Spurs and Liverpool in last two months and conceded 3 goals so he's adapted quitely.

It's a bit like O'Neill here and the feeling he wasn't quite getting as much out of the resources as likes of Moyes and Redknapp who finished above him albeit it was marginal.

I hope I'm wrong but I don't think we'll finish higher than 8th in prem with DS in charge. However he fully deserves the chance to prove me wrong next season, he's done so already.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: hipkiss92 on May 10, 2021, 02:18:56 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: SoccerHQ on May 10, 2021, 01:54:03 PM
Quote from: paul_e on May 10, 2021, 11:16:27 AM
Bielsa has been with Leeds longer, had most of HIS squad in place before promotion and carried the momentum of winning the league that meant his summer signings were from a similar pool to ours, 1 year earlier.

Smith had to focus on numbers and bedding in a completely new squad in his first season and could focus on adding quality this year. Given there's still every chance we'll finish above Leeds anyway I don't think there's much between the 2 teams. Do people really expect the team that finishes 17th in the premier league to be starting from a significantly higher base than the team that wins the championship?

Wasn't that Leeds squad finishing mid table when he took over whereas DS still had the baulk of the 3rd place 17/18 to work with so have to factor that in a bit aswell.

Bielsa and Smith have both done very well last 2-3 years. However think the debate is which one can really kick on over next 2 years with more spending.

Interesting looking at leeds and considering many were slaughtering how bad defensively they were mid season they've just played Chelsea, Man. United, Man. City, Spurs and Liverpool in last two months and conceded 3 goals so he's adapted quitely.

It's a bit like O'Neill here and the feeling he wasn't quite getting as much out of the resources as likes of Moyes and Redknapp who finished above him albeit it was marginal.

I hope I'm wrong but I don't think we'll finish higher than 8th in prem with DS in charge. However he fully deserves the chance to prove me wrong next season, he's done so already.

Johnstone, Terry, Snodgrass, Grabban were no longer at the club come the start of the season after the play off final, and Chester wasn't seen again once we bought in Mings in the January window. Pretty much the spine of the 17 / 18 apart from JG.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on May 10, 2021, 02:27:50 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: hipkiss92 on May 10, 2021, 02:18:56 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on May 10, 2021, 01:54:03 PM
Quote from: paul_e on May 10, 2021, 11:16:27 AM
Bielsa has been with Leeds longer, had most of HIS squad in place before promotion and carried the momentum of winning the league that meant his summer signings were from a similar pool to ours, 1 year earlier.

Smith had to focus on numbers and bedding in a completely new squad in his first season and could focus on adding quality this year. Given there's still every chance we'll finish above Leeds anyway I don't think there's much between the 2 teams. Do people really expect the team that finishes 17th in the premier league to be starting from a significantly higher base than the team that wins the championship?

Wasn't that Leeds squad finishing mid table when he took over whereas DS still had the baulk of the 3rd place 17/18 to work with so have to factor that in a bit aswell.

Bielsa and Smith have both done very well last 2-3 years. However think the debate is which one can really kick on over next 2 years with more spending.

Interesting looking at leeds and considering many were slaughtering how bad defensively they were mid season they've just played Chelsea, Man. United, Man. City, Spurs and Liverpool in last two months and conceded 3 goals so he's adapted quitely.

It's a bit like O'Neill here and the feeling he wasn't quite getting as much out of the resources as likes of Moyes and Redknapp who finished above him albeit it was marginal.

I hope I'm wrong but I don't think we'll finish higher than 8th in prem with DS in charge. However he fully deserves the chance to prove me wrong next season, he's done so already.

Johnstone, Terry, Snodgrass, Grabban were no longer at the club come the start of the season after the play off final, and Chester wasn't seen again once we bought in Mings in the January window. Pretty much the spine of the 17 / 18 apart from JG.

I meant more Axel, AEM Taylor, Whelan, Jack, Hourihane, Adomah. All played just as much in 18/19 if not more than in 17/18 considering we had Hutton instead of Taylor at LB for the 2018 run in.

Decent enough spine once things settled down that season and Tammy was obviously an upgrade on Grabban. El Ghazi took a while to get going but I thought he was a very good outlet for us in the promotion run in. McGinn aswell we didn't have in 17/18 either.

I remember in the weeks after the Fulham defeat and we were on the brink of financial ruin and practically had the squad up for sale and people were still demanding we went up under Bruce the following season. I suspect much of that was just people wanting Bruce out so just setting unrealistic expectations and so it happened two months into the season but ultimately with the squad we ended up with not getting into the top 6 that season would've been a failure and likely set us back years again.

I can't remember too many people tipping Leeds to go up in June 2018. They'd just finished 13th so just to finish in play offs was a very good effort from them.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on May 10, 2021, 02:52:22 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: SoccerHQ on May 10, 2021, 02:27:50 PM
I can't remember too many people tipping Leeds to go up in June 2018. They'd just finished 13th so just to finish in play offs was a very good effort from them.

I think the state of the defence when Smith came in is the huge mitigating factor, Bruce had completely fucked the squad balance up and left us in an awful position. Aside from that even if the team from the previous season was all still there I specifically said Bielsa had HIS squad. Very few managers would go into any team in the world and not want to add a few of their own players to put their identity on the team, that's why I'm not a fan of sacking managers with less than 3 transfer windows, that's the point where they have their own squad to work with in my opinion.


Quote from: SoccerHQ on May 10, 2021, 01:48:24 PM
Would you give him a new deal out of interest Paul?


If Trez wasn't out for a long time I'd probably have looked to cash in on AEG this window, I like him and think he's a very useful backup option but I don't think either of them are good enough to be the 3rd choice wide player at a top 6 club. With Trez out it's harder to know what to do. I think I'd still consider letting him go to bring in someone with a higher ceiling, would mean we might need to rely on JPB on the bench at times but I'm ok with that.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: dave.woodhall on May 10, 2021, 02:57:51 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: hipkiss92 on May 10, 2021, 02:18:56 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on May 10, 2021, 01:54:03 PM
Quote from: paul_e on May 10, 2021, 11:16:27 AM
Bielsa has been with Leeds longer, had most of HIS squad in place before promotion and carried the momentum of winning the league that meant his summer signings were from a similar pool to ours, 1 year earlier.

Smith had to focus on numbers and bedding in a completely new squad in his first season and could focus on adding quality this year. Given there's still every chance we'll finish above Leeds anyway I don't think there's much between the 2 teams. Do people really expect the team that finishes 17th in the premier league to be starting from a significantly higher base than the team that wins the championship?

Wasn't that Leeds squad finishing mid table when he took over whereas DS still had the baulk of the 3rd place 17/18 to work with so have to factor that in a bit aswell.

Bielsa and Smith have both done very well last 2-3 years. However think the debate is which one can really kick on over next 2 years with more spending.

Interesting looking at leeds and considering many were slaughtering how bad defensively they were mid season they've just played Chelsea, Man. United, Man. City, Spurs and Liverpool in last two months and conceded 3 goals so he's adapted quitely.

It's a bit like O'Neill here and the feeling he wasn't quite getting as much out of the resources as likes of Moyes and Redknapp who finished above him albeit it was marginal.

I hope I'm wrong but I don't think we'll finish higher than 8th in prem with DS in charge. However he fully deserves the chance to prove me wrong next season, he's done so already.

Johnstone, Terry, Snodgrass, Grabban were no longer at the club come the start of the season after the play off final, and Chester wasn't seen again once we bought in Mings in the January window. Pretty much the spine of the 17 / 18 apart from JG.

Remind me again how many players were ours at the end of the play-off final. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: hipkiss92 on May 10, 2021, 03:11:19 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: dave.woodhall on May 10, 2021, 02:57:51 PM
Quote from: hipkiss92 on May 10, 2021, 02:18:56 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on May 10, 2021, 01:54:03 PM
Quote from: paul_e on May 10, 2021, 11:16:27 AM
Bielsa has been with Leeds longer, had most of HIS squad in place before promotion and carried the momentum of winning the league that meant his summer signings were from a similar pool to ours, 1 year earlier.

Smith had to focus on numbers and bedding in a completely new squad in his first season and could focus on adding quality this year. Given there's still every chance we'll finish above Leeds anyway I don't think there's much between the 2 teams. Do people really expect the team that finishes 17th in the premier league to be starting from a significantly higher base than the team that wins the championship?

Wasn't that Leeds squad finishing mid table when he took over whereas DS still had the baulk of the 3rd place 17/18 to work with so have to factor that in a bit aswell.

Bielsa and Smith have both done very well last 2-3 years. However think the debate is which one can really kick on over next 2 years with more spending.

Interesting looking at leeds and considering many were slaughtering how bad defensively they were mid season they've just played Chelsea, Man. United, Man. City, Spurs and Liverpool in last two months and conceded 3 goals so he's adapted quitely.

It's a bit like O'Neill here and the feeling he wasn't quite getting as much out of the resources as likes of Moyes and Redknapp who finished above him albeit it was marginal.

I hope I'm wrong but I don't think we'll finish higher than 8th in prem with DS in charge. However he fully deserves the chance to prove me wrong next season, he's done so already.

Johnstone, Terry, Snodgrass, Grabban were no longer at the club come the start of the season after the play off final, and Chester wasn't seen again once we bought in Mings in the January window. Pretty much the spine of the 17 / 18 apart from JG.

Remind me again how many players were ours at the end of the play-off final. 

Exactly. Smith effectively started with a squad that had only been together for 2 months when he took over, and then needed major surgery again in the January, before a second complete rebuild after we went up. Last summer was the first time he was able to build from a position of relative stability (if finishing 17th by one point classes as stability).
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: brontebilly on May 10, 2021, 03:12:45 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: ChicagoLion on May 10, 2021, 10:44:52 AM
Quote from: brontebilly on May 10, 2021, 10:34:23 AM
Quote from: Allan C on May 10, 2021, 09:59:00 AM
I think the comparisons with Leeds and Bielsa are ridiculous so I’m going to turn them on their head. Bielsa has vast experience as a coach, managing some top club and international teams over many years. Despite this, with a similar squad, Leeds are only two points ahead of Dean Smith’s Villa, at the beginning of his managerial career previously coaching Walsall and Brentford and we have a game in hand. To go a step further, just two points ahead of Leeds we have a self proclaimed “big six” club Arsenal with a Guardiola apprentice, arguably the best coach ever, at the helm, a meagre four points ahead of same Dean Smith. I think I know why I’m happy with our manager.

Could also flip it to compare that Leeds in the first season in the division look set for a top half finish. We stayed up by a point. Leeds have also done it with far less of a budget and a distinct style of play. Our style of play appears based on the availability and fitness of one player, when he isn't available we don't have one. 

I do agree that comparing Smith to Bielsa is a bit unfair. Smith is just about on track with pre season expectations, the loss of his best player for 11? games also should be taken into account.
Why is it unfair, who should we compare him to then?

Bielsa is one of the best coaches in Europe with huge experience. Could always compare Smith to Chris Wilder I guess who came up the same season as us and had a great first season. Spent big money on a new keeper and striker last summer who have flopped spectacularly. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Damo70 on May 10, 2021, 03:24:15 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: villa for life on May 09, 2021, 05:18:21 PM
In recent interviews, Dean has been on and on about how he had a complete group of novices last season and how much of a challenge it was to stay up. I’ve actually never seen him admit that he’s a complete novice who has just as much to learn.

I think our squad is way better than what it is currently showing, and he should own it...


Luiz used to be good .

McGinn used to be amazing

Martinez is not at the same standard he was

Barkley is nowhere near what he was when he first joined.

I think Cash is also not as good as earlier in the season.

Watkins would get more goals in a better system.

Traore could be much more consistent.

We are so quick to blame players, but a coach’s job is  to “coach”. In other words Improve players.. 

So I ask 

how many of our players have improved this season.(from last season or if they are new from when they first joined?

For me: just one player / Matt Targett , possibly Konsa

Luiz - poor season
McGinn slightly inconsistent
Martinez top notch
Barkley briefly good at the start, very poor since
Cash decent
Watkins impressive
Traore hit and miss but I rate him.

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: aj2k77 on May 10, 2021, 04:21:12 PM
			

			

				Are people still arguing over Bielsa and Smith? There's a reason why one has managed in multiple countries, a national team and spent his career in the top flights. Smiths done a good job here but you'll not find many people outside of Villa Park who think he's the better manager.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on May 10, 2021, 04:21:26 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Drummond on May 10, 2021, 12:53:52 PM
Martinez has done better this season than last.
Cash is doing better all the time- agree 
Konsa is way better than last season -agree and becoming a great player
Mings is getting far more consistent- disagree still making too many stupid mistakes that cost goals
Targett is arguably the most improved player in the division- agreed
McGinn doesn't appear as good as he did because he isn't the stand-out player that he was.- he gets a pass from me as he is carrying the midfield 
Luiz is getting better yet is still prone to the odd mistake. But he gets stuck in. Has been pretty poor lately and can’t tackle- lots of room for improvement 
Grealish is better this season than last. Disagree he kept us up last season
AEG is better and more consistent, and scoring goals. Not good enough and if he does not score he makes little contribution 
Traore has improved as the season has progressed in my view, still needs to work on his defensive skills mind. We can afford one luxury player, unfortunately with Barkley Smith is playing 2
Watkins seems to be on a steep trajectory. Agree Super player
Trez was being lauded earlier this season, had a dip then came again and unfortunately got injured. 
Davis has scored a goal and provided an assist in relatively low minutes on the pitch and people would like him to play- Should have played more not been used properly by Smith
Ramsay is doing better all the time. -Should be playing ahead of Barkley.
We've other youngsters coming through too.

So yes, I think Smith is doing a good job. We've just hit a patch, without one of the world's best players, where it's not going our way. On our day though, we're a match for anyone.
Smith gets a C based on the above. Needs to do better to match the clubs ambition.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Allan C on May 10, 2021, 06:19:03 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: ChicagoLion on May 10, 2021, 04:21:26 PM
Quote from: Drummond on May 10, 2021, 12:53:52 PM
Martinez has done better this season than last.
Cash is doing better all the time- agree 
Konsa is way better than last season -agree and becoming a great player
Mings is getting far more consistent- disagree still making too many stupid mistakes that cost goals
Targett is arguably the most improved player in the division- agreed
McGinn doesn't appear as good as he did because he isn't the stand-out player that he was.- he gets a pass from me as he is carrying the midfield 
Luiz is getting better yet is still prone to the odd mistake. But he gets stuck in. Has been pretty poor lately and can’t tackle- lots of room for improvement 
Grealish is better this season than last. Disagree he kept us up last season
AEG is better and more consistent, and scoring goals. Not good enough and if he does not score he makes little contribution 
Traore has improved as the season has progressed in my view, still needs to work on his defensive skills mind. We can afford one luxury player, unfortunately with Barkley Smith is playing 2
Watkins seems to be on a steep trajectory. Agree Super player
Trez was being lauded earlier this season, had a dip then came again and unfortunately got injured. 
Davis has scored a goal and provided an assist in relatively low minutes on the pitch and people would like him to play- Should have played more not been used properly by Smith
Ramsay is doing better all the time. -Should be playing ahead of Barkley.
We've other youngsters coming through too.

So yes, I think Smith is doing a good job. We've just hit a patch, without one of the world's best players, where it's not going our way. On our day though, we're a match for anyone.
Smith gets a C based on the above. Needs to do better to match the clubs ambition.
Clearly the club ambition is to be a constant top 4 club, qualifying for CL each season. What we don’t know is the timescale that has been set for Smith to achieve it. That timescale could well be three seasons away, maybe sooner. Whatever the timescale, promotion to PL survival to mid possible top half finish with an improving squad is real progress and better than a C
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: dave.woodhall on May 10, 2021, 06:46:20 PM
			

			

				Some people think it's like playing Championship Manager 02. Find a couple of obscure trainee galacticos, buy one or two ready-made ones and success is guaranteed. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Toronto Villa on May 10, 2021, 06:47:16 PM
			

			

				Those early Championship Manager games were ace
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: CT on May 10, 2021, 06:53:21 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Toronto Villa on May 10, 2021, 06:47:16 PM
Those early Championship Manager games were ace

I had 97/98. Bought Robert Pires and some guy called Bakayoko to play as the 10. 

Almost unstoppable. I was pretty addicted to that game! 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: dave.woodhall on May 10, 2021, 07:08:12 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: CT on May 10, 2021, 06:53:21 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on May 10, 2021, 06:47:16 PM
Those early Championship Manager games were ace

I had 97/98. Bought Robert Pires and some guy called Bakayoko to play as the 10. 

Almost unstoppable. I was pretty addicted to that game! 

Was that the one where you could never sell players after about ten years? 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Hockley Lion on May 10, 2021, 07:14:01 PM
			

			

				I thought we achieved promotion a season earlier than expected too.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Toronto Villa on May 10, 2021, 07:27:02 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: CT on May 10, 2021, 06:53:21 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on May 10, 2021, 06:47:16 PM
Those early Championship Manager games were ace

I had 97/98. Bought Robert Pires and some guy called Bakayoko to play as the 10. 

Almost unstoppable. I was pretty addicted to that game! 

I remember getting this one on the Atari ST. Stil remember the smell of the box.

(https://www.lemonamiga.com/games/media/boxes/full/championship_manager_93_01.jpg)
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: OCD on May 10, 2021, 09:12:54 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: CT on May 10, 2021, 06:53:21 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on May 10, 2021, 06:47:16 PM
Those early Championship Manager games were ace

I had 97/98. Bought Robert Pires and some guy called Bakayoko to play as the 10. 

Almost unstoppable. I was pretty addicted to that game! 

I always had to sign Adriano. I learnt touch-typing from updating the database to keep players at their actual clubs. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on May 10, 2021, 09:19:15 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Allan C on May 10, 2021, 06:19:03 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on May 10, 2021, 04:21:26 PM
Quote from: Drummond on May 10, 2021, 12:53:52 PM
Martinez has done better this season than last.
Cash is doing better all the time- agree 
Konsa is way better than last season -agree and becoming a great player
Mings is getting far more consistent- disagree still making too many stupid mistakes that cost goals
Targett is arguably the most improved player in the division- agreed
McGinn doesn't appear as good as he did because he isn't the stand-out player that he was.- he gets a pass from me as he is carrying the midfield 
Luiz is getting better yet is still prone to the odd mistake. But he gets stuck in. Has been pretty poor lately and can’t tackle- lots of room for improvement 
Grealish is better this season than last. Disagree he kept us up last season
AEG is better and more consistent, and scoring goals. Not good enough and if he does not score he makes little contribution 
Traore has improved as the season has progressed in my view, still needs to work on his defensive skills mind. We can afford one luxury player, unfortunately with Barkley Smith is playing 2
Watkins seems to be on a steep trajectory. Agree Super player
Trez was being lauded earlier this season, had a dip then came again and unfortunately got injured. 
Davis has scored a goal and provided an assist in relatively low minutes on the pitch and people would like him to play- Should have played more not been used properly by Smith
Ramsay is doing better all the time. -Should be playing ahead of Barkley.
We've other youngsters coming through too.

So yes, I think Smith is doing a good job. We've just hit a patch, without one of the world's best players, where it's not going our way. On our day though, we're a match for anyone.
Smith gets a C based on the above. Needs to do better to match the clubs ambition.
Clearly the club ambition is to be a constant top 4 club, qualifying for CL each season. What we don’t know is the timescale that has been set for Smith to achieve it. That timescale could well be three seasons away, maybe sooner. Whatever the timescale, promotion to PL survival to mid possible top half finish with an improving squad is real progress and better than a C
you can give him a C+ then.


I have never even seen championship manager. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Steve67 on May 10, 2021, 09:30:01 PM
			

			

				I said we'd finish 13th to 17th when we did the predictor thing, looks like that's what we will achieve, perhaps slightly higher with 11th, which represents progression.  I hope the owners continue to back Dean as he does sign some very good players.  We need at least three in the summer to continue to improve. For me, Dean frustrates me but is still doing a very decent job.  Gets a straight B from me.  
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on May 10, 2021, 10:12:13 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: paul_e on May 10, 2021, 02:52:22 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on May 10, 2021, 02:27:50 PM
I can't remember too many people tipping Leeds to go up in June 2018. They'd just finished 13th so just to finish in play offs was a very good effort from them.

I think the state of the defence when Smith came in is the huge mitigating factor, Bruce had completely fucked the squad balance up and left us in an awful position. Aside from that even if the team from the previous season was all still there I specifically said Bielsa had HIS squad. Very few managers would go into any team in the world and not want to add a few of their own players to put their identity on the team, that's why I'm not a fan of sacking managers with less than 3 transfer windows, that's the point where they have their own squad to work with in my opinion.


Quote from: SoccerHQ on May 10, 2021, 01:48:24 PM
Would you give him a new deal out of interest Paul?


If Trez wasn't out for a long time I'd probably have looked to cash in on AEG this window, I like him and think he's a very useful backup option but I don't think either of them are good enough to be the 3rd choice wide player at a top 6 club. With Trez out it's harder to know what to do. I think I'd still consider letting him go to bring in someone with a higher ceiling, would mean we might need to rely on JPB on the bench at times but I'm ok with that.

Oh I agree on defence, playing Jedi there was simply not acceptable and Chester was playing on one leg at that point aswell which was a disgrace by Bruce and something Chessie has diplomatically stayed quiet on (I'm sure he'll have his say when his career is done).

However:

This was the table after two months of DS and a patched up defence:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46395329

Two points off 6th and we'd been unbeaten for about 7 games at that point. I'm fairly sure the mood on here at the time was going all in for top 2 so we shouldn't have been in position where we had to win 10 straight just to get into play offs although of course it made the promotion all the more special in the end.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Allan C on May 10, 2021, 10:51:45 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: ChicagoLion on May 10, 2021, 09:19:15 PM
Quote from: Allan C on May 10, 2021, 06:19:03 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on May 10, 2021, 04:21:26 PM
Quote from: Drummond on May 10, 2021, 12:53:52 PM
Martinez has done better this season than last.
Cash is doing better all the time- agree 
Konsa is way better than last season -agree and becoming a great player
Mings is getting far more consistent- disagree still making too many stupid mistakes that cost goals
Targett is arguably the most improved player in the division- agreed
McGinn doesn't appear as good as he did because he isn't the stand-out player that he was.- he gets a pass from me as he is carrying the midfield 
Luiz is getting better yet is still prone to the odd mistake. But he gets stuck in. Has been pretty poor lately and can’t tackle- lots of room for improvement 
Grealish is better this season than last. Disagree he kept us up last season
AEG is better and more consistent, and scoring goals. Not good enough and if he does not score he makes little contribution 
Traore has improved as the season has progressed in my view, still needs to work on his defensive skills mind. We can afford one luxury player, unfortunately with Barkley Smith is playing 2
Watkins seems to be on a steep trajectory. Agree Super player
Trez was being lauded earlier this season, had a dip then came again and unfortunately got injured. 
Davis has scored a goal and provided an assist in relatively low minutes on the pitch and people would like him to play- Should have played more not been used properly by Smith
Ramsay is doing better all the time. -Should be playing ahead of Barkley.
We've other youngsters coming through too.

So yes, I think Smith is doing a good job. We've just hit a patch, without one of the world's best players, where it's not going our way. On our day though, we're a match for anyone.
Smith gets a C based on the above. Needs to do better to match the clubs ambition.
Clearly the club ambition is to be a constant top 4 club, qualifying for CL each season. What we don’t know is the timescale that has been set for Smith to achieve it. That timescale could well be three seasons away, maybe sooner. Whatever the timescale, promotion to PL survival to mid possible top half finish with an improving squad is real progress and better than a C
you can give him a C+ then.


I have never even seen championship manager.
I was thinking B minus pushing a straight B 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: robleflaneur on May 10, 2021, 11:46:38 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: SoccerHQ on May 10, 2021, 10:12:13 PM
Quote from: paul_e on May 10, 2021, 02:52:22 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on May 10, 2021, 02:27:50 PM
I can't remember too many people tipping Leeds to go up in June 2018. They'd just finished 13th so just to finish in play offs was a very good effort from them.

I think the state of the defence when Smith came in is the huge mitigating factor, Bruce had completely fucked the squad balance up and left us in an awful position. Aside from that even if the team from the previous season was all still there I specifically said Bielsa had HIS squad. Very few managers would go into any team in the world and not want to add a few of their own players to put their identity on the team, that's why I'm not a fan of sacking managers with less than 3 transfer windows, that's the point where they have their own squad to work with in my opinion.


Quote from: SoccerHQ on May 10, 2021, 01:48:24 PM
Would you give him a new deal out of interest Paul?


If Trez wasn't out for a long time I'd probably have looked to cash in on AEG this window, I like him and think he's a very useful backup option but I don't think either of them are good enough to be the 3rd choice wide player at a top 6 club. With Trez out it's harder to know what to do. I think I'd still consider letting him go to bring in someone with a higher ceiling, would mean we might need to rely on JPB on the bench at times but I'm ok with that.

Oh I agree on defence, playing Jedi there was simply not acceptable and Chester was playing on one leg at that point aswell which was a disgrace by Bruce and something Chessie has diplomatically stayed quiet on (I'm sure he'll have his say when his career is done).

However:

This was the table after two months of DS and a patched up defence:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46395329

Two points off 6th and we'd been unbeaten for about 7 games at that point. I'm fairly sure the mood on here at the time was going all in for top 2 so we shouldn't have been in position where we had to win 10 straight just to get into play offs although of course it made the promotion all the more special in the end.
The patched up defence really started after that game v Albion.The clearly unfit  Chester was being partnered by the likes of Bree and the returning Elphick. The defence was unable to hold onto a 2-0 halftime lead against Leeds.Hutton and Taylor also picked up injuries.Tuanzebe was out longer than Jack.When we had a fit team to pick from ,with the return of Steer and the arrival of Mings ,we were arguably the best team in the league.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: steamer on May 11, 2021, 07:11:54 AM
			

			

				Based on how we started, the season is petering out to a disappointing end.
But if we had been given this position at the beginning of the season we would  have said mission achieved.
On that it has to be a B
I hope that the squad and the starting 11 are sufficiently strengthened in the summer, which I am sure they will be. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ads on May 11, 2021, 08:07:37 AM
			

			

				I've seen a statistic that Fulham are the 17th team to be relegated after winning the Play Offs, a failure rate of 59%.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: The Edge on May 11, 2021, 08:25:37 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Ads on May 11, 2021, 08:07:37 AM
I've seen a statistic that Fulham are the 17th team to be relegated after winning the Play Offs, a failure rate of 59%.
They've also done it twice in three years which is not bad going. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on May 11, 2021, 10:30:18 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Ads on May 11, 2021, 08:07:37 AM
I've seen a statistic that Fulham are the 17th team to be relegated after winning the Play Offs, a failure rate of 59%.

Yep, add in the state of our squad that summer and Smith did very well to keep us up.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on May 11, 2021, 01:52:33 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: steamer on May 11, 2021, 07:11:54 AM
Based on how we started, the season is petering out to a disappointing end.
But if we had been given this position at the beginning of the season we would  have said mission achieved.
On that it has to be a B
I hope that the squad and the starting 11 are sufficiently strengthened in the summer, which I am sure they will be. 

B+ for the start to the season, D for the second half, not good enough.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Brend'Watkins on May 11, 2021, 03:11:08 PM
			

			

				A- for the first half, C for the 2nd.  
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on May 11, 2021, 03:49:50 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Brend'Watkins on May 11, 2021, 03:11:08 PM
A- for the first half, C for the 2nd. 
I wish you had been my teacher ,
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: chrisw1 on May 11, 2021, 03:55:40 PM
			

			

				A for the first half season - beyond expectation.
D for the second - well below expectation.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on May 11, 2021, 06:02:17 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Brend'Watkins on May 11, 2021, 03:11:08 PM
A- for the first half, C for the 2nd.  

Agree on the A- for the first half, some wonderful football and results to match. Leeds was the only real poor display but they would have beaten anybody that day.

I'd prefer to wait until the end of the season to judge the second half but today I'd give a C-. We've managed to win a few games despite a massive drop in the quality of our play that started when Jack was still in the team. The Everton result and performance was huge as is reflected in my score.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on May 11, 2021, 09:51:43 PM
			

			

				What's weird for the first half of the season is we weren't actually that much higher in the league than we are now.

This was the table after we lost to West Ham late November/start of December:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55039201

Was our 4th defeat from 5 and we were one place higher than we are now although of course table was far more condensed with only 9 or 10 games played, two Manchester clubs either side of us showed that.

Beating Palace 3-0 on Boxing day got us up to 6th so really this season was excellent four opening games then a really good xmas period and pretty much middling form for majority of other games.

What killed any european bid was 1 point from Newcastle and Sheffield United in early March.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: jwarry on May 12, 2021, 08:42:58 AM
			

			

				To be fair the drop off in form coincided with some of the squad contracting COVID, after which some players were not playing at the same level, eg Jack, Doug, McGinn, Ross
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: tomd2103 on May 12, 2021, 09:05:36 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: chrisw1 on May 11, 2021, 03:55:40 PM
A for the first half season - beyond expectation.
D for the second - well below expectation.

Put together, we're probably slightly above where I would have expected us to be at this point.  A top ten finish would be good, especially given the lengthy absence of Jack Grealish and Barkley not really working out.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on May 12, 2021, 09:18:09 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: jwarry on May 12, 2021, 08:42:58 AM
To be fair the drop off in form coincided with some of the squad contracting COVID, after which some players were not playing at the same level, eg Jack, Doug, McGinn, Ross

Smith specifically said that wasn't a factor, other than the general disruption.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on May 12, 2021, 09:23:08 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on May 12, 2021, 09:18:09 AM
Quote from: jwarry on May 12, 2021, 08:42:58 AM
To be fair the drop off in form coincided with some of the squad contracting COVID, after which some players were not playing at the same level, eg Jack, Doug, McGinn, Ross

Smith specifically said that wasn't a factor, other than the general disruption.
It’s been trotted out a while now, there is long covid and fucking long covid.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Allan C on May 12, 2021, 11:20:48 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: ChicagoLion on May 12, 2021, 09:23:08 AM
Quote from: Risso on May 12, 2021, 09:18:09 AM
Quote from: jwarry on May 12, 2021, 08:42:58 AM
To be fair the drop off in form coincided with some of the squad contracting COVID, after which some players were not playing at the same level, eg Jack, Doug, McGinn, Ross

Smith specifically said that wasn't a factor, other than the general disruption.
It’s been trotted out a while now, there is long covid and fucking long covid.
I think Covid in the squad must have played a part but also fatigue in the “first team” and a lack of quality in the deeper squad when injury or fatigue occurred. Yet we are still in a position where we can achieve 9th. That’s a good return in my book
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: brontebilly on May 12, 2021, 11:55:57 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Allan C on May 12, 2021, 11:20:48 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on May 12, 2021, 09:23:08 AM
Quote from: Risso on May 12, 2021, 09:18:09 AM
Quote from: jwarry on May 12, 2021, 08:42:58 AM
To be fair the drop off in form coincided with some of the squad contracting COVID, after which some players were not playing at the same level, eg Jack, Doug, McGinn, Ross

Smith specifically said that wasn't a factor, other than the general disruption.
It’s been trotted out a while now, there is long covid and fucking long covid.
I think Covid in the squad must have played a part but also fatigue in the “first team” and a lack of quality in the deeper squad when injury or fatigue occurred. Yet we are still in a position where we can achieve 9th. That’s a good return in my book

Fatigue in the squad was a consequence of Smith failing to rotate the squad in the first half of the season, see JG and MON also. Often he didn't even use his subs properly in games we were coasting to wins. Post covid break, the 6 games in 18 days schedule didn't help obviously but Deano infamously stated at the time that he didn't believe in player fatigue. I'm hoping some important lessons were learned for next season. 

In some ways we have been somewhat fortunate with injuries this season. Cash, Barkley and Grealish are the only regulars to have picked up significant injuries. Arguably with Grealish moving into Barkley's spot we didn't miss him all that much anyway. No changes required at GK, CB, LB, CM, FW all season really. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: OCD on May 12, 2021, 12:00:04 PM
			

			

				Every club except probably City and United had a big drop off in form in the middle of the season. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: chrisw1 on May 12, 2021, 12:05:07 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: tomd2103 on May 12, 2021, 09:05:36 AM
Quote from: chrisw1 on May 11, 2021, 03:55:40 PM
A for the first half season - beyond expectation.
D for the second - well below expectation.

Put together, we're probably slightly above where I would have expected us to be at this point.  A top ten finish would be good, especially given the lengthy absence of Jack Grealish and Barkley not really working out.
Yes but unfortuantely it also means we have been awful for a long time and as it stands have zero momentum going into next season.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Allan C on May 12, 2021, 12:59:36 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: brontebilly on May 12, 2021, 11:55:57 AM
Quote from: Allan C on May 12, 2021, 11:20:48 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on May 12, 2021, 09:23:08 AM
Quote from: Risso on May 12, 2021, 09:18:09 AM
Quote from: jwarry on May 12, 2021, 08:42:58 AM
To be fair the drop off in form coincided with some of the squad contracting COVID, after which some players were not playing at the same level, eg Jack, Doug, McGinn, Ross

Smith specifically said that wasn't a factor, other than the general disruption.
It’s been trotted out a while now, there is long covid and fucking long covid.
I think Covid in the squad must have played a part but also fatigue in the “first team” and a lack of quality in the deeper squad when injury or fatigue occurred. Yet we are still in a position where we can achieve 9th. That’s a good return in my book

Fatigue in the squad was a consequence of Smith failing to rotate the squad in the first half of the season, see JG and MON also. Often he didn't even use his subs properly in games we were coasting to wins. Post covid break, the 6 games in 18 days schedule didn't help obviously but Deano infamously stated at the time that he didn't believe in player fatigue. I'm hoping some important lessons were learned for next season. 

In some ways we have been somewhat fortunate with injuries this season. Cash, Barkley and Grealish are the only regulars to have picked up significant injuries. Arguably with Grealish moving into Barkley's spot we didn't miss him all that much anyway. No changes required at GK, CB, LB, CM, FW all season really.
And that is precisely my point. The deeper squad wasn’t/isn’t good enough to rest the key players when they needed resting. Yes we’ve been fortunate with injuries thank god but arguably the best player in the league is some injury, Cash too has been excellent and a significant loss when he was out. I’ll agree that substitutions have been poor at times but he’s learning. With better squad players and Smith taking on board his short comings in that area there will be improvement
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on May 12, 2021, 01:31:04 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on May 12, 2021, 09:18:09 AM
Quote from: jwarry on May 12, 2021, 08:42:58 AM
To be fair the drop off in form coincided with some of the squad contracting COVID, after which some players were not playing at the same level, eg Jack, Doug, McGinn, Ross

Smith specifically said that wasn't a factor, other than the general disruption.

Yeah but he also said Grealish would be back soon. If you don't believe him in that, why believe him on Covid? 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on May 12, 2021, 01:33:57 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: OCD on May 12, 2021, 12:00:04 PM
Every club except probably City and United had a big drop off in form in the middle of the season.
They were all losing to each other.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on May 12, 2021, 01:46:30 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: jwarry on May 12, 2021, 08:42:58 AM
To be fair the drop off in form coincided with some of the squad contracting COVID, after which some players were not playing at the same level, eg Jack, Doug, McGinn, Ross

We lost 4/5 in October and November.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: brontebilly on May 12, 2021, 01:55:23 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Allan C on May 12, 2021, 12:59:36 PM
Quote from: brontebilly on May 12, 2021, 11:55:57 AM
Quote from: Allan C on May 12, 2021, 11:20:48 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on May 12, 2021, 09:23:08 AM
Quote from: Risso on May 12, 2021, 09:18:09 AM
Quote from: jwarry on May 12, 2021, 08:42:58 AM
To be fair the drop off in form coincided with some of the squad contracting COVID, after which some players were not playing at the same level, eg Jack, Doug, McGinn, Ross

Smith specifically said that wasn't a factor, other than the general disruption.
It’s been trotted out a while now, there is long covid and fucking long covid.
I think Covid in the squad must have played a part but also fatigue in the “first team” and a lack of quality in the deeper squad when injury or fatigue occurred. Yet we are still in a position where we can achieve 9th. That’s a good return in my book

Fatigue in the squad was a consequence of Smith failing to rotate the squad in the first half of the season, see JG and MON also. Often he didn't even use his subs properly in games we were coasting to wins. Post covid break, the 6 games in 18 days schedule didn't help obviously but Deano infamously stated at the time that he didn't believe in player fatigue. I'm hoping some important lessons were learned for next season. 

In some ways we have been somewhat fortunate with injuries this season. Cash, Barkley and Grealish are the only regulars to have picked up significant injuries. Arguably with Grealish moving into Barkley's spot we didn't miss him all that much anyway. No changes required at GK, CB, LB, CM, FW all season really.
And that is precisely my point. The deeper squad wasn’t/isn’t good enough to rest the key players when they needed resting. Yes we’ve been fortunate with injuries thank god but arguably the best player in the league is some injury, Cash too has been excellent and a significant loss when he was out. I’ll agree that substitutions have been poor at times but he’s learning. With better squad players and Smith taking on board his short comings in that area there will be improvement

The likes of Hourihane and Guilbert were more than competent enough to fill in as squad players I'd argue. Smith lost them through mismanagement, there were a number of games where their direct replacements Barkley and Cash were having stinkers but in Barkley's case he was left on against likes of Leeds and Soton. Think Elmo came on for Cash in a couple of those games. We all like Elmo but he has very much had his day at the top level.

I don't think it's a simple as we need better squad players, as we saw in MONs time if you don't use them regularly they become very expensive reserves. Think Deano if his quotes are anything to go by is pretty old school when it comes to players retaining the shirt and use of subs. I think that simply has to change for next season to avoid another March collapse. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on May 12, 2021, 02:07:27 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: brontebilly on May 12, 2021, 01:55:23 PM
Quote from: Allan C on May 12, 2021, 12:59:36 PM
Quote from: brontebilly on May 12, 2021, 11:55:57 AM
Quote from: Allan C on May 12, 2021, 11:20:48 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on May 12, 2021, 09:23:08 AM
Quote from: Risso on May 12, 2021, 09:18:09 AM
Quote from: jwarry on May 12, 2021, 08:42:58 AM
To be fair the drop off in form coincided with some of the squad contracting COVID, after which some players were not playing at the same level, eg Jack, Doug, McGinn, Ross

Smith specifically said that wasn't a factor, other than the general disruption.
It’s been trotted out a while now, there is long covid and fucking long covid.
I think Covid in the squad must have played a part but also fatigue in the “first team” and a lack of quality in the deeper squad when injury or fatigue occurred. Yet we are still in a position where we can achieve 9th. That’s a good return in my book

Fatigue in the squad was a consequence of Smith failing to rotate the squad in the first half of the season, see JG and MON also. Often he didn't even use his subs properly in games we were coasting to wins. Post covid break, the 6 games in 18 days schedule didn't help obviously but Deano infamously stated at the time that he didn't believe in player fatigue. I'm hoping some important lessons were learned for next season. 

In some ways we have been somewhat fortunate with injuries this season. Cash, Barkley and Grealish are the only regulars to have picked up significant injuries. Arguably with Grealish moving into Barkley's spot we didn't miss him all that much anyway. No changes required at GK, CB, LB, CM, FW all season really.
And that is precisely my point. The deeper squad wasn’t/isn’t good enough to rest the key players when they needed resting. Yes we’ve been fortunate with injuries thank god but arguably the best player in the league is some injury, Cash too has been excellent and a significant loss when he was out. I’ll agree that substitutions have been poor at times but he’s learning. With better squad players and Smith taking on board his short comings in that area there will be improvement

The likes of Hourihane and Guilbert were more than competent enough to fill in as squad players I'd argue. Smith lost them through mismanagement, there were a number of games where their direct replacements Barkley and Cash were having stinkers but in Barkley's case he was left on against likes of Leeds and Soton. Think Elmo came on for Cash in a couple of those games. We all like Elmo but he has very much had his day at the top level.

I don't think it's a simple as we need better squad players, as we saw in MONs time if you don't use them regularly they become very expensive reserves. Think Deano if his quotes are anything to go by is pretty old school when it comes to players retaining the shirt and use of subs. I think that simply has to change for next season to avoid another March collapse.
I think his use of the squad is his biggest failing and that includes his piss poor use of subs during the game.

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Villan82 on May 12, 2021, 03:09:14 PM
			

			

				I don't understand why he let Hourihane and Freddy go. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on May 12, 2021, 03:20:30 PM
			

			

				Because they wanted to play and Smith couldn't guarantee it.

Hourihane and Smith have said as much. Hourihane was widely regarded by most on here as not being good enough for where we want to be and we did the decent thing and let him go, I'd argue that he's hardly been missed and wouldn't have got many games at all.

With Guilbert, the same applies, Cash has come in, done really well indeed and let's face it he would have been ever-present barring injury and/or suspension. We had Elmo who is an adequate (at this point) back up and who wouldn't have wanted to go on loan and being the model pro he is was quite happy to help out where he could.

Plus moving them both on has helped the wage bill without causing much, if any, detriment to the team.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Allan C on May 12, 2021, 03:23:10 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: brontebilly on May 12, 2021, 01:55:23 PM
Quote from: Allan C on May 12, 2021, 12:59:36 PM
Quote from: brontebilly on May 12, 2021, 11:55:57 AM
Quote from: Allan C on May 12, 2021, 11:20:48 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on May 12, 2021, 09:23:08 AM
Quote from: Risso on May 12, 2021, 09:18:09 AM
Quote from: jwarry on May 12, 2021, 08:42:58 AM
To be fair the drop off in form coincided with some of the squad contracting COVID, after which some players were not playing at the same level, eg Jack, Doug, McGinn, Ross

Smith specifically said that wasn't a factor, other than the general disruption.
It’s been trotted out a while now, there is long covid and fucking long covid.
I think Covid in the squad must have played a part but also fatigue in the “first team” and a lack of quality in the deeper squad when injury or fatigue occurred. Yet we are still in a position where we can achieve 9th. That’s a good return in my book

Fatigue in the squad was a consequence of Smith failing to rotate the squad in the first half of the season, see JG and MON also. Often he didn't even use his subs properly in games we were coasting to wins. Post covid break, the 6 games in 18 days schedule didn't help obviously but Deano infamously stated at the time that he didn't believe in player fatigue. I'm hoping some important lessons were learned for next season. 

In some ways we have been somewhat fortunate with injuries this season. Cash, Barkley and Grealish are the only regulars to have picked up significant injuries. Arguably with Grealish moving into Barkley's spot we didn't miss him all that much anyway. No changes required at GK, CB, LB, CM, FW all season really.
And that is precisely my point. The deeper squad wasn’t/isn’t good enough to rest the key players when they needed resting. Yes we’ve been fortunate with injuries thank god but arguably the best player in the league is some injury, Cash too has been excellent and a significant loss when he was out. I’ll agree that substitutions have been poor at times but he’s learning. With better squad players and Smith taking on board his short comings in that area there will be improvement

The likes of Hourihane and Guilbert were more than competent enough to fill in as squad players I'd argue. Smith lost them through mismanagement, there were a number of games where their direct replacements Barkley and Cash were having stinkers but in Barkley's case he was left on against likes of Leeds and Soton. Think Elmo came on for Cash in a couple of those games. We all like Elmo but he has very much had his day at the top level.

I don't think it's a simple as we need better squad players, as we saw in MONs time if you don't use them regularly they become very expensive reserves. Think Deano if his quotes are anything to go by is pretty old school when it comes to players retaining the shirt and use of subs. I think that simply has to change for next season to avoid another March collapse.
Sorry but I have to disagree in the case of Hourihane and Guilbert being competent replacements. In any case, it’s not “expensive reserves” we need but a squad that will allow proper team rotation which we certainly don’t have at the moment. Hourihane definitely isn’t that in my view. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on May 13, 2021, 02:25:10 AM
			

			

				Hourhane's a perfect sub when you need a goal with 30 mins to go.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Mister E on May 13, 2021, 08:04:43 AM
			

			

				Decisions were made based on the assumption that Cash would have a consistently-good introduction and assimilation into the Premier League, and that Barkley would find consistency and fitness from the get-go.
So, the question is: do we think those assumptions were valid, at the time both Guilbert and Hourihane were allowed to go on loan? - the club obviously thought so. Hindsight might raise a questionmark over it.
I certainly think that Cash would have benefitted from being given some games off, on the bench, since the step-up for him has been quite a steep one. I'm less sure about the Barkley situation because Conor had not really proved himself at this level. Maybe they thought that Sanson would show himself to be more of a Barkley alternative?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on May 13, 2021, 08:28:02 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Mister E on May 13, 2021, 08:04:43 AM
Decisions were made based on the assumption that Cash would have a consistently-good introduction and assimilation into the Premier League, and that Barkley would find consistency and fitness from the get-go.
So, the question is: do we think those assumptions were valid, at the time both Guilbert and Hourihane were allowed to go on loan? - the club obviously thought so. Hindsight might raise a questionmark over it.
I certainly think that Cash would have benefitted from being given some games off, on the bench, since the step-up for him has been quite a steep one. I'm less sure about the Barkley situation because Conor had not really proved himself at this level. Maybe they thought that Sanson would show himself to be more of a Barkley alternative?
They have spent a boat load of money replacing Hourihane who was not quite good enough at this level with Barkley who is a spent force, at least Conor provides a decent free kick and you know he is trying.
Guilbert is a strange one, looks like he has been discarded ( so much for the improving players argument)
Sanson , I know its early but has not contributed more than Hourihane would probably less..
Our problems and recent poor form is mainly down to the midfield and Smith has been unable to solve this.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: algy on May 13, 2021, 08:28:06 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Mister E on May 13, 2021, 08:04:43 AM
Decisions were made based on the assumption that Cash would have a consistently-good introduction and assimilation into the Premier League, and that Barkley would find consistency and fitness from the get-go.
So, the question is: do we think those assumptions were valid, at the time both Guilbert and Hourihane were allowed to go on loan? - the club obviously thought so. Hindsight might raise a questionmark over it.
I certainly think that Cash would have benefitted from being given some games off, on the bench, since the step-up for him has been quite a steep one. I'm less sure about the Barkley situation because Conor had not really proved himself at this level. Maybe they thought that Sanson would show himself to be more of a Barkley alternative?
I doubt Sanson was brought with this season in mind, other than maybe as a squad player. I think he's just become available at the right price a bit earlier than expected, and we've capitalised on that - brought him in whilst there's less competition for his services, with a view to him playing a bigger role in 2021/22. The extra 6 months bedding in time will also be a nice bonus.

I think we'd have kept Hourihane if he'd wanted to stay, but to his credit he isn't the sort of player who's happy to sit around playing a dozen games a season and picking up his pay cheque. He needed to.move even if, for us, that's not ideal.

Guilbert - who knows what's going on there, but it'd be totally understandable if he wanted to be a bit closer to home at the moment.

I'm really excited about this summer. I think we've been unfortunate this season not to have ended up challenging for a Europa League spot. Obviously this is based on the top end of expectations, but with some good recruitment I genuinely think we could be in the top 4 this time next season. Europa league is absolutely achievable.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on May 13, 2021, 08:31:08 AM
			

			

				It all comes down to whether the £11m loan fee and increased wages for barkley was worth it compared to sticking with Conor.
Tbf I didn't know much about barkley before he arrived, but it didn't take long to know where he was lacking in quality in addition to his poor team ethic and attitude. 
Going forwards I would hope we don't waste any more money on poor loan signings at the expense of our own established players or young players coming through like Ramsey and Chuka, especially (as seems the case) there is an obligation to involve that loan player in most if not all games irrespective of form. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on May 13, 2021, 08:44:28 AM
			

			

				I keep hearing this Fine Wine argument for Sanson, are we really in the business of buying a player and lying him down for a season on the expectation he turns into a special vintage?
Barkley -Drinkwater be interesting to see who is next seasons misfit.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Duncan Shaw on May 13, 2021, 08:48:38 AM
			

			

				I'd forgotten we'd even signed Sanson to be honest - is he injured?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Mister E on May 13, 2021, 09:10:39 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: ChicagoLion on May 13, 2021, 08:28:02 AM
...
Our problems and recent poor form is mainly down to the midfield and Smith has been unable to solve this.
Agree with this, and we've been unable to address because we're short of quality alternatives. Had Ramsey and Chuk been 12 months further on in their development, we may have been able to manage. As it is, the Barkley option has largely failed to deliver.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Mister E on May 13, 2021, 09:10:54 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Duncan Shaw on May 13, 2021, 08:48:38 AM
I'd forgotten we'd even signed Sanson to be honest - is he injured?
Yes. Knee-knack.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: brontebilly on May 13, 2021, 10:12:15 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: ChicagoLion on May 13, 2021, 08:44:28 AM
I keep hearing this Fine Wine argument for Sanson, are we really in the business of buying a player and lying him down for a season on the expectation he turns into a special vintage?
Barkley -Drinkwater be interesting to see who is next seasons misfit.

Think we need to give him until next season. Certainly looks a tidy player, comfortable with both feet. But has a big summer ahead in the gym to physically get to a position to be able to compete in a midfield role in EPL. Half a yard short in nearly every facet of his play at the moment, Ramsey looks more physically ready right now to be honest. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: LeeB on May 13, 2021, 10:25:14 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: brontebilly on May 13, 2021, 10:12:15 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on May 13, 2021, 08:44:28 AM
I keep hearing this Fine Wine argument for Sanson, are we really in the business of buying a player and lying him down for a season on the expectation he turns into a special vintage?
Barkley -Drinkwater be interesting to see who is next seasons misfit.

Think we need to give him until next season. Certainly looks a tidy player, comfortable with both feet. But has a big summer ahead in the gym to physically get to a position to be able to compete in a midfield role in EPL. Half a yard short in nearly every facet of his play at the moment, Ramsey looks more physically ready right now to be honest. 

I just have a nagging feeling that he will be nothing more than tidy and ineffective, I hope I'm wrong.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: brontebilly on May 13, 2021, 10:29:28 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Mister E on May 13, 2021, 08:04:43 AM
Decisions were made based on the assumption that Cash would have a consistently-good introduction and assimilation into the Premier League, and that Barkley would find consistency and fitness from the get-go.
So, the question is: do we think those assumptions were valid, at the time both Guilbert and Hourihane were allowed to go on loan? - the club obviously thought so. Hindsight might raise a questionmark over it.
I certainly think that Cash would have benefitted from being given some games off, on the bench, since the step-up for him has been quite a steep one. I'm less sure about the Barkley situation because Conor had not really proved himself at this level. Maybe they thought that Sanson would show himself to be more of a Barkley alternative?

Hourihane himself said it was when Ramsey was given the start over him at Wolves that he knew the game was up, given he had played at West Ham and thought he had done well. Think Sanson had signed or was about to. I guess ultimately Smith was looking to get more mobility into midfield. Unfortunately for Smith, Sanson and Barkley particularly haven't provided that. Ramsey as expected as a young player has been inconsistent. I think if Hourihane had been involved more early on in the season, it wouldn't have got to the stage he wanted to leave in January. He would definitely have been a useful option after Jack got injured and all our creativity disappeared. 

Guilbert is just a strange one. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: dicedlam on May 13, 2021, 10:39:01 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: brontebilly on May 13, 2021, 10:12:15 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on May 13, 2021, 08:44:28 AM
I keep hearing this Fine Wine argument for Sanson, are we really in the business of buying a player and lying him down for a season on the expectation he turns into a special vintage?
Barkley -Drinkwater be interesting to see who is next seasons misfit.

Think we need to give him until next season. Certainly looks a tidy player, comfortable with both feet. But has a big summer ahead in the gym to physically get to a position to be able to compete in a midfield role in EPL. Half a yard short in nearly every facet of his play at the moment, Ramsey looks more physically ready right now to be honest. 

Coming in mid-season has been difficult for him, especially having to adapting to the pace and physicality of the Premier League. He is highly rated by the coaching staff and they reckon with a good pre-season behind him he will go on to show is full potential.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Clampy on May 13, 2021, 10:40:43 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: ChicagoLion on May 13, 2021, 08:44:28 AM
I keep hearing this Fine Wine argument for Sanson, are we really in the business of buying a player and lying him down for a season on the expectation he turns into a special vintage?
Barkley -Drinkwater be interesting to see who is next seasons misfit.

Are we really in the business of writing players off too quickly? 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Clampy on May 13, 2021, 10:43:02 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: dicedlam on May 13, 2021, 10:39:01 AM
Quote from: brontebilly on May 13, 2021, 10:12:15 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on May 13, 2021, 08:44:28 AM
I keep hearing this Fine Wine argument for Sanson, are we really in the business of buying a player and lying him down for a season on the expectation he turns into a special vintage?
Barkley -Drinkwater be interesting to see who is next seasons misfit.

Think we need to give him until next season. Certainly looks a tidy player, comfortable with both feet. But has a big summer ahead in the gym to physically get to a position to be able to compete in a midfield role in EPL. Half a yard short in nearly every facet of his play at the moment, Ramsey looks more physically ready right now to be honest. 

Coming in mid-season has been difficult for him, especially having to adapting to the pace and physicality of the Premier League. He is highly rated by the coaching staff and they reckon with a good pre-season behind him he will go on to show is full potential.

Plus he's been out injured. The lack of patience again from some fans is absoutley staggering. He's been here 4 and a half months.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on May 13, 2021, 10:46:52 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Clampy on May 13, 2021, 10:40:43 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on May 13, 2021, 08:44:28 AM
I keep hearing this Fine Wine argument for Sanson, are we really in the business of buying a player and lying him down for a season on the expectation he turns into a special vintage?
Barkley -Drinkwater be interesting to see who is next seasons misfit.

Are we really in the business of writing players off too quickly?

It's not that quick, it's been three months!

As for the original post, it's not a season, it's about 4 months until the end of this season; time to acclimatise to the team, club and area. We got him for a good price and earlier than we expected as a result.

We paid £1m for Louie Barry, and he only plays for the U23s, I think we're laying him down for a good while.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: caster troy on May 13, 2021, 11:11:34 AM
			

			

				Dean talked about the 'adaptation risk' when signing players from the continent. Using the example of Traore, even though he had played in England in the past, coming from France was a step up in intensity and it took him a while to reach the required levels of the Premier League. He said he expects him to progress further next season. So I guess with Sanson they are hoping for a similar trajectory.

We definitely shouldn't give up on him already, look at Veretout. 10 goals in Serie A this season for Roma.


			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on May 13, 2021, 11:35:06 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: caster troy on May 13, 2021, 11:11:34 AM
Dean talked about the 'adaptation risk' when signing players from the continent. Using the example of Traore, even though he had played in England in the past, coming from France was a step up in intensity and it took him a while to reach the required levels of the Premier League. He said he expects him to progress further next season. So I guess with Sanson they are hoping for a similar trajectory.

We definitely shouldn't give up on him already, look at Veretout. 10 goals in Serie A this season for Roma.



Some players just aren't suited to the Premier League, however good they are.

And as for patience, some posters on here must hate Smith for bombing Samatta out so quickly.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: caster troy on May 13, 2021, 11:50:47 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on May 13, 2021, 11:35:06 AM
Quote from: caster troy on May 13, 2021, 11:11:34 AM
Dean talked about the 'adaptation risk' when signing players from the continent. Using the example of Traore, even though he had played in England in the past, coming from France was a step up in intensity and it took him a while to reach the required levels of the Premier League. He said he expects him to progress further next season. So I guess with Sanson they are hoping for a similar trajectory.

We definitely shouldn't give up on him already, look at Veretout. 10 goals in Serie A this season for Roma.



Some players just aren't suited to the Premier League, however good they are.

And as for patience, some posters on here must hate Smith for bombing Samatta out so quickly.

I think Samatta is a slightly unfair comparison. He seemed like a total panic buy to me when Wesley got injured. Sanson is someone we'd been tracking for a while and managed to get half price in the transfer window, pretty much the opposite scenario. Agree that some players just don't suit the Premier League though.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: eamonn on May 13, 2021, 12:11:54 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: ChicagoLion on May 13, 2021, 08:44:28 AM
I keep hearing this Fine Wine argument for Sanson, are we really in the business of buying a player and lying him down for a season on the expectation he turns into a special vintage?
Barkley -Drinkwater be interesting to see who is next seasons misfit.

I'd like to make this water wine but it's impossible.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Pat Mustard on May 13, 2021, 12:28:16 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Clampy on May 13, 2021, 10:40:43 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on May 13, 2021, 08:44:28 AM
I keep hearing this Fine Wine argument for Sanson, are we really in the business of buying a player and lying him down for a season on the expectation he turns into a special vintage?
Barkley -Drinkwater be interesting to see who is next seasons misfit.

Are we really in the business of writing players off too quickly?

Two words - Matt Targett
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Daley’s dreads on May 13, 2021, 12:41:37 PM
			

			

				Dwight Yorke 
Petrov 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on May 13, 2021, 01:35:07 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: eamonn on May 13, 2021, 12:11:54 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on May 13, 2021, 08:44:28 AM
I keep hearing this Fine Wine argument for Sanson, are we really in the business of buying a player and lying him down for a season on the expectation he turns into a special vintage?
Barkley -Drinkwater be interesting to see who is next seasons misfit.

I'd like to make this water wine but it's impossible.

*Nods appreciatively*
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Mister E on May 13, 2021, 01:45:27 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: brontebilly on May 13, 2021, 10:12:15 AM
Think we need to give Sanson until next season. Certainly looks a tidy player, comfortable with both feet. But has a big summer ahead in the gym to physically get to a position to be able to compete in a midfield role in EPL. Half a yard short in nearly every facet of his play at the moment, Ramsey looks more physically ready right now to be honest. 
I think Sanson has showed early promise; certainly has control of the football and his movement looks good. As others have said, a summer of training and acclimatisation will enable us to see the real potential next season.
With the addition of a commanding CMF (in the Declan Rice mould), being able to perm 2 from McGinn, Sanson, Luiz and Ramsey (with Chuk also in there) as the box-to-box MF could be a very powerful midfield.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Damo70 on May 13, 2021, 02:21:52 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Mister E on May 13, 2021, 09:10:54 AM
Quote from: Duncan Shaw on May 13, 2021, 08:48:38 AM
I'd forgotten we'd even signed Sanson to be honest - is he injured?
Yes. Knee-knack.

I too had pretty much forgotten about Sanson but I would like to see him given a decent chance before we write him off and possibly regret doing so.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on May 13, 2021, 02:38:37 PM
			

			

				I don't think anybody's written him off, just that it's not immediately obvious what his strengths are.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Duncan Shaw on May 13, 2021, 03:01:16 PM
			

			

				I'm certainly not writing him off, I'd genuinely forgotten about him as he has not been a feature for a few weeks.  I'm looking forward to seeing him next season.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on May 13, 2021, 03:02:07 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on May 13, 2021, 02:38:37 PM
I don't think anybody's written him off, just that it's not immediately obvious what his strengths are.
Yes, it’s he must be great Smith bought him, 
His performances are at best ordinary- we bought him for next year, he needs to spend more time in the gym etc.

No one seems to have come up with a rallying excuse to cover Barkley yet.


			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on May 13, 2021, 03:13:57 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: ChicagoLion on May 13, 2021, 03:02:07 PM
Quote from: Risso on May 13, 2021, 02:38:37 PM
I don't think anybody's written him off, just that it's not immediately obvious what his strengths are.
Yes, it’s he must be great Smith bought him, 


Smith didn't buy him, and he's been on the pitch for the equivalent of around three games. Yet it's people that are asking for him to be given a chance that are unreasonable?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Clampy on May 13, 2021, 03:26:05 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: ChicagoLion on May 13, 2021, 03:02:07 PM
Quote from: Risso on May 13, 2021, 02:38:37 PM
I don't think anybody's written him off, just that it's not immediately obvious what his strengths are.
Yes, it’s he must be great Smith bought him, 
His performances are at best ordinary- we bought him for next year, he needs to spend more time in the gym etc.

No one seems to have come up with a rallying excuse to cover Barkley yet.



It must be exhausting finding something to be miserable about every day. Maybe you need another hobby. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on May 13, 2021, 03:34:29 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: ChicagoLion on May 13, 2021, 03:02:07 PM
Quote from: Risso on May 13, 2021, 02:38:37 PM
I don't think anybody's written him off, just that it's not immediately obvious what his strengths are.
Yes, it’s he must be great Smith bought him, 
His performances are at best ordinary- we bought him for next year, he needs to spend more time in the gym etc.

No one seems to have come up with a rallying excuse to cover Barkley yet.

Any positive comments?

Don't need excuses, it's reasons. Barkley should be acclimatised to the country, the language, the culture and the football. Anyone coming from a different country with English as a second language has all of those factors to contend with. He's been here a matter of weeks. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on May 13, 2021, 04:27:34 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Drummond on May 13, 2021, 03:34:29 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on May 13, 2021, 03:02:07 PM
Quote from: Risso on May 13, 2021, 02:38:37 PM
I don't think anybody's written him off, just that it's not immediately obvious what his strengths are.
Yes, it’s he must be great Smith bought him, 
His performances are at best ordinary- we bought him for next year, he needs to spend more time in the gym etc.

No one seems to have come up with a rallying excuse to cover Barkley yet.

Any positive comments?

Don't need excuses, it's reasons. Barkley should be acclimatised to the country, the language, the culture and the football. Anyone coming from a different country with English as a second language has all of those factors to contend with. He's been here a matter of weeks. 

Particularly during a lockdown where a lot of the things you'd do to settle in aren't possible and travel back 'home' isn't an option even if there are short breaks. I don't think it's any shock that there was very little movement during January, it just wasn't a good time for transfers.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: steamer on May 13, 2021, 04:49:38 PM
			

			

				Wes is a tough one, do you go into next season hoping he is the player you imagined you were buying or do you worry about pre injury form, legacy of Injury and buy a replacement then hope Wes is good enough to compete for a place
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: KevinGage on May 13, 2021, 05:31:18 PM
			

			

				Depending on when the cut off point is for transfers next year, give him a full pre season plus friendlies under his belt and then (if deadline day is Aug 31/Sep 1) some cameos from the bench early in the season. 

If he looks up to speed, happy days.  

If he's a bit off the pace (which would still be understandable with the nature of injury and the length of time missed) loan out. Sure there will be plenty of clubs either in Belgium, Portugal or whatever who would take a chance on a Brazilian international forward. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on May 13, 2021, 07:02:47 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Clampy on May 13, 2021, 03:26:05 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on May 13, 2021, 03:02:07 PM
Quote from: Risso on May 13, 2021, 02:38:37 PM
I don't think anybody's written him off, just that it's not immediately obvious what his strengths are.
Yes, it’s he must be great Smith bought him, 
His performances are at best ordinary- we bought him for next year, he needs to spend more time in the gym etc.

No one seems to have come up with a rallying excuse to cover Barkley yet.



It must be exhausting finding something to be miserable about every day. Maybe you need another hobby.
The bestest fan ever speaks again.
Your hobby is having a pop at fellow Villa fans.
You can keep that one to your self your very good at it.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on May 13, 2021, 08:07:52 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: ChicagoLion on May 13, 2021, 07:02:47 PM
Quote from: Clampy on May 13, 2021, 03:26:05 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on May 13, 2021, 03:02:07 PM
Quote from: Risso on May 13, 2021, 02:38:37 PM
I don't think anybody's written him off, just that it's not immediately obvious what his strengths are.
Yes, it’s he must be great Smith bought him, 
His performances are at best ordinary- we bought him for next year, he needs to spend more time in the gym etc.

No one seems to have come up with a rallying excuse to cover Barkley yet.



It must be exhausting finding something to be miserable about every day. Maybe you need another hobby.
The bestest fan ever speaks again.
Your hobby is having a pop at fellow Villa fans.
You can keep that one to your self your very good at it.

Your Preservation of the Queen's English Campaign appears to be floundering. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Clampy on May 13, 2021, 08:36:00 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: ChicagoLion on May 13, 2021, 07:02:47 PM
Quote from: Clampy on May 13, 2021, 03:26:05 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on May 13, 2021, 03:02:07 PM
Quote from: Risso on May 13, 2021, 02:38:37 PM
I don't think anybody's written him off, just that it's not immediately obvious what his strengths are.
Yes, it’s he must be great Smith bought him, 
His performances are at best ordinary- we bought him for next year, he needs to spend more time in the gym etc.

No one seems to have come up with a rallying excuse to cover Barkley yet.



It must be exhausting finding something to be miserable about every day. Maybe you need another hobby.
The bestest fan ever speaks again.
Your hobby is having a pop at fellow Villa fans.
You can keep that one to your self your very good at it.

Says the man in the post above mine accusing Villa fans of only backing a player who's been here three months because  Smith signed him. Hmm. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Chico Hamilton III on May 14, 2021, 09:18:13 AM
			

			

				I’m a Smith fan but I do think he’s missed a great opportunity to safely experiment a bit over the last few games.  We’ll probably never be in a similar situation where we were safe with half a dozen or so games left, no fans in the ground to get frustrated if things didn’t come off and I think he missed a chance to mix things up a bit, try some formations, chuck a few more kids in and see what happens. Yet he insisted on sticking with Barkley. 



			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Three Spires Villa on May 14, 2021, 03:02:21 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Chico Hamilton III on May 14, 2021, 09:18:13 AM
I’m a Smith fan but I do think he’s missed a great opportunity to safely experiment a bit over the last few games.  We’ll probably never be in a similar situation where we were safe with half a dozen or so games left, no fans in the ground to get frustrated if things didn’t come off and I think he missed a chance to mix things up a bit, try some formations, chuck a few more kids in and see what happens. Yet he insisted on sticking with Barkley. 

Agree




			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: chrisw1 on May 14, 2021, 03:16:56 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Chico Hamilton III on May 14, 2021, 09:18:13 AM
I’m a Smith fan but I do think he’s missed a great opportunity to safely experiment a bit over the last few games.  We’ll probably never be in a similar situation where we were safe with half a dozen or so games left, no fans in the ground to get frustrated if things didn’t come off and I think he missed a chance to mix things up a bit, try some formations, chuck a few more kids in and see what happens. Yet he insisted on sticking with Barkley. 

I'd agree with you if he felt there was no chance his job could be on the line after over a half season of poor form and results.  I think he probably felt he needed to get something from out last 5 or 6 games or the pressure would come.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: chrisw1 on May 14, 2021, 03:18:47 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: steamer on May 13, 2021, 04:49:38 PM
Wes is a tough one, do you go into next season hoping he is the player you imagined you were buying or do you worry about pre injury form, legacy of Injury and buy a replacement then hope Wes is good enough to compete for a place
The latter. If he comes good then it's a bonus but in my view we simply cannot rely on it and risk going into another season undercooked up front.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Allan C on May 14, 2021, 03:26:22 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Chico Hamilton III on May 14, 2021, 09:18:13 AM
I’m a Smith fan but I do think he’s missed a great opportunity to safely experiment a bit over the last few games.  We’ll probably never be in a similar situation where we were safe with half a dozen or so games left, no fans in the ground to get frustrated if things didn’t come off and I think he missed a chance to mix things up a bit, try some formations, chuck a few more kids in and see what happens. Yet he insisted on sticking with Barkley.
I kinda agree with you on this, however, if it did fail this and several other threads would be full of rubbish about how bad a coach Smith is and then in all probability, the young players brought in to the experiment would get similar treatment.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Moonraker on May 14, 2021, 03:32:52 PM
			

			

				Got to assume Dean knows what he is doing with the kids. Pep used to get loads of stick for not giving Foden game time, and that seems to have worked out well
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Allan C on May 14, 2021, 03:38:07 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Clampy on May 13, 2021, 08:36:00 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on May 13, 2021, 07:02:47 PM
Quote from: Clampy on May 13, 2021, 03:26:05 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on May 13, 2021, 03:02:07 PM
Quote from: Risso on May 13, 2021, 02:38:37 PM
I don't think anybody's written him off, just that it's not immediately obvious what his strengths are.
Yes, it’s he must be great Smith bought him, 
His performances are at best ordinary- we bought him for next year, he needs to spend more time in the gym etc.

No one seems to have come up with a rallying excuse to cover Barkley yet.



It must be exhausting finding something to be miserable about every day. Maybe you need another hobby.
The bestest fan ever speaks again.
Your hobby is having a pop at fellow Villa fans.
You can keep that one to your self your very good at it.

Says the man in the post above mine accusing Villa fans of only backing a player who's been here three months because  Smith signed him. Hmm.
I’ve thought all along that Sanson was a buy for next season not this. It’s a big step from the French league to the PL and added to that was Covid and our subsequent loss of form then his injury. With a proper Pre-season behind him I think he’ll be ok. As for Barkley, it’s a shame because he is a quality player who’s out of form and I think fitness. It was a great move at the time and had he maintained his early form and fitness we may well have finished two or three places higher.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: KevinGage on May 14, 2021, 03:39:15 PM
			

			

				
Quote
I’m a Smith fan but I do think he’s missed a great opportunity to safely experiment a bit over the last few games.  We’ll probably never be in a similar situation where we were safe with half a dozen or so games left, no fans in the ground to get frustrated if things didn’t come off and I think he missed a chance to mix things up a bit, try some formations, chuck a few more kids in and see what happens. Yet he insisted on sticking with Barkley

Smudger said a few games back that bonuses and TV money etc was contingent on exactly where we finished so -to his mind- there weren't any games he could just dick about and try different formations and players etc.  (OK, he didn't use those exact words). 

Also, with the rookies, it's one thing looking different gravy against their peers.  Quite another coming up against world class players in the top flight. 

I'd have liked to see Chuka feature more (at least from the bench). And the left back (Kessler?). But it's Smith's head on the chopping block if he gets those calls wrong. We've seen how he's played Ramsey this season in place of Hourihane, so I don't think he's averse to giving the Yoot a chance when they're ready. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ian. on May 14, 2021, 03:39:21 PM
			

			

				Also we do not know what advice he’s receiving from their respective managers at their level. It may be that he’s been told they are physically not quite ready.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on May 14, 2021, 03:50:19 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Moonraker on May 14, 2021, 03:32:52 PM
Got to assume Dean knows what he is doing with the kids. Pep used to get loads of stick for not giving Foden game time, and that seems to have worked out well

It’s a bit different when a player like Foden is trying to get to a start ahead of players like Sterling or the other world class players Man City have. We’re talking about giving our youngsters a run out instead of the truly hopeless Barkley.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on May 14, 2021, 04:03:33 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Chico Hamilton III on May 14, 2021, 09:18:13 AM
I’m a Smith fan but I do think he’s missed a great opportunity to safely experiment a bit over the last few games.  We’ll probably never be in a similar situation where we were safe with half a dozen or so games left, no fans in the ground to get frustrated if things didn’t come off and I think he missed a chance to mix things up a bit, try some formations, chuck a few more kids in and see what happens. Yet he insisted on sticking with Barkley. 

It would have been more likely if results and performances had been mixed throughout the season rather than one half great, the other poor. We've won twice in our last 11 games. It's a problem he's still trying to address and not one you want to carry into next season.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Allan C on May 14, 2021, 04:22:56 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on May 14, 2021, 03:50:19 PM
Quote from: Moonraker on May 14, 2021, 03:32:52 PM
Got to assume Dean knows what he is doing with the kids. Pep used to get loads of stick for not giving Foden game time, and that seems to have worked out well

It’s a bit different when a player like Foden is trying to get to a start ahead of players like Sterling or the other world class players Man City have. We’re talking about giving our youngsters a run out instead of the truly hopeless Barkley.
It’s not so much who our youngsters would be replacing but who they will be up against in the opposition. Smiths handling of Ramsey has been great in my view, giving him a look and letting him build his experience and confidence at PL level. They may not yet be ready for that step.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: fredm on May 14, 2021, 04:37:45 PM
			

			

				
[/quote]
I’ve thought all along that Sanson was a buy for next season not this. It’s a big step from the French league to the PL and added to that was Covid and our subsequent loss of form then his injury. With a proper Pre-season behind him I think he’ll be ok. As for Barkley, it’s a shame because he is a quality player who’s out of form and I think fitness. It was a great move at the time and had he maintained his early form and fitness we may well have finished two or three places higher.
[/quote]

Smith said a while ago that Sanson was on their radar and a bid would have probably gone in for him this summer.  However due to financial difficulties his club made it known that he was available and so we stepped in with a cut price offer and got him 6 months in advance.  Gives him the bonus of getting to know the set up/ other players etc. as well as having some game time under his belt.  He will now know what is needed when he comes back for pre-season instead of it all being new and different to him.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: cdbearsfan on May 14, 2021, 04:39:35 PM
			

			

				Maybe he didn't want to try too many kids as they'll be playing in the Youth Cup. Decent performance tonight and we might see one or two of them feature, at least off the bench, by the end of the season I reckon.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on May 14, 2021, 05:07:08 PM
			

			

				If there’s no midfielder in the younger players who can’t perform to the level of Barclay then they aren’t good enough yet it’s as simple as that 
It’s all right crowing about what a bunch of world beaters we going to have but you have to be very special to breakthrough early and if they’re not we have to accept it

If your good enough your old enough
Obviously it good enough yet 

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: OCD on May 14, 2021, 05:07:20 PM
			

			

				The club is really keen to enhance their reputation in youth development and I think some of it is down to wanting them at their best for the cup games. We've already lost Aaron Ramsey to an injury. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: RamboandBruno on May 15, 2021, 12:16:56 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on May 14, 2021, 03:50:19 PM
Quote from: Moonraker on May 14, 2021, 03:32:52 PM
Got to assume Dean knows what he is doing with the kids. Pep used to get loads of stick for not giving Foden game time, and that seems to have worked out well

It’s a bit different when a player like Foden is trying to get to a start ahead of players like Sterling or the other world class players Man City have. We’re talking about giving our youngsters a run out instead of the truly hopeless Barkley.

He has played Ramsey ahead of Barkley quite a few times, up until the last 3 or 4 games, so he has given one of the younger players a chance. One step at a time and I want us to try and get as many points as possible with the games left, I’m not sure playing 2 or 3 youth players at the same time would help us do that. Next season Ramsey will get even more game time and we’ll start to see cup appearances from Chuka and Kessler I reckon
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Mister E on May 15, 2021, 12:47:08 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: RamboandBruno on May 15, 2021, 12:16:56 PM
Quote from: Risso on May 14, 2021, 03:50:19 PM
Quote from: Moonraker on May 14, 2021, 03:32:52 PM
Got to assume Dean knows what he is doing with the kids. Pep used to get loads of stick for not giving Foden game time, and that seems to have worked out well

It’s a bit different when a player like Foden is trying to get to a start ahead of players like Sterling or the other world class players Man City have. We’re talking about giving our youngsters a run out instead of the truly hopeless Barkley.
He has played Ramsey ahead of Barkley quite a few times, up until the last 3 or 4 games, so he has given one of the younger players a chance. One step at a time and I want us to try and get as many points as possible with the games left, I’m not sure playing 2 or 3 youth players at the same time would help us do that. Next season Ramsey will get even more game time and we’ll start to see cup appearances from Chuka and Kessler I reckon
The point is that Chuk could play instead of Barkley now and probably make more impact.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Allan C on May 15, 2021, 01:12:28 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Mister E on May 15, 2021, 12:47:08 PM
Quote from: RamboandBruno on May 15, 2021, 12:16:56 PM
Quote from: Risso on May 14, 2021, 03:50:19 PM
Quote from: Moonraker on May 14, 2021, 03:32:52 PM
Got to assume Dean knows what he is doing with the kids. Pep used to get loads of stick for not giving Foden game time, and that seems to have worked out well

It’s a bit different when a player like Foden is trying to get to a start ahead of players like Sterling or the other world class players Man City have. We’re talking about giving our youngsters a run out instead of the truly hopeless Barkley.
He has played Ramsey ahead of Barkley quite a few times, up until the last 3 or 4 games, so he has given one of the younger players a chance. One step at a time and I want us to try and get as many points as possible with the games left, I’m not sure playing 2 or 3 youth players at the same time would help us do that. Next season Ramsey will get even more game time and we’ll start to see cup appearances from Chuka and Kessler I reckon
The point is that Chuk could play instead of Barkley now and probably make more impact.
I’d like to see Chuk given a go but don’t be surprised if that experiment (if Smith goes with it) fails at this stage of his career. It will be a massive step up at the moment 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: chrisw1 on May 15, 2021, 01:56:28 PM
			

			

				Yes there's no doubt Chuck has quality, but he is dominating so much partly because he's physically head and shoulders ahead of most the kids he's playing against.  He won't have that luxury when he steps up. I'm excited to see him in the first team but it's not a given that the jump will be easy for him.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Dante Lavelli on May 15, 2021, 02:12:56 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: chrisw1 on May 15, 2021, 01:56:28 PM
Yes there's no doubt Chuck has quality, but he is dominating so much partly because he's physically head and shoulders ahead of most the kids he's playing against.  He won't have that luxury when he steps up. I'm excited to see him in the first team but it's not a given that the jump will be easy for him.

Agree with that.  He looks big enough whereas Barry looks very much a kid.  
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on May 15, 2021, 02:18:53 PM
			

			

				Looks like with this result we'll have to win our last 3 to have any chance of top 10 so yeah last 3 games are pretty dead now bar wanting to put on a good show for the 10k coming v Chelsea.

I think Carney will get some minutes in these games, probably Kesler aswell might start the Chelsea game if Cash is out for the season. Youth cup complicated things but final isn't under Saturday 29th May so they should be figuring given Barkley isn't going to be option for Chelsea game so will be a youthful bench that day at least.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: RamboandBruno on May 15, 2021, 03:12:39 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Mister E on May 15, 2021, 12:47:08 PM
Quote from: RamboandBruno on May 15, 2021, 12:16:56 PM
Quote from: Risso on May 14, 2021, 03:50:19 PM
Quote from: Moonraker on May 14, 2021, 03:32:52 PM
Got to assume Dean knows what he is doing with the kids. Pep used to get loads of stick for not giving Foden game time, and that seems to have worked out well

It’s a bit different when a player like Foden is trying to get to a start ahead of players like Sterling or the other world class players Man City have. We’re talking about giving our youngsters a run out instead of the truly hopeless Barkley.
He has played Ramsey ahead of Barkley quite a few times, up until the last 3 or 4 games, so he has given one of the younger players a chance. One step at a time and I want us to try and get as many points as possible with the games left, I’m not sure playing 2 or 3 youth players at the same time would help us do that. Next season Ramsey will get even more game time and we’ll start to see cup appearances from Chuka and Kessler I reckon
The point is that Chuk could play instead of Barkley now and probably make more impact.

I was responding to the point of giving our youngsters game time instead of Barkley. Ramsey is still one of our youngsters and has been given game time instead of Barkley. If the point being made is that other youngsters apart from Ramsey should be playing instead of Barkley, that is different. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: CT on May 15, 2021, 03:16:48 PM
			

			

				No better time than to try them now. We’re going to finish where we are now, and we won’t be playing them when the new season starts when we will be under pressure for a good start. 

I agree that Chucks and Kesler look ready to go. I’d give them game time on Sunday. 

I’d be more worried about Louie getting chopped in half by some clogging centre back though. Would like to see him maybe loaned out next year (Cheltenham would be good in league one). 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Mister E on May 15, 2021, 04:37:05 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: RamboandBruno on May 15, 2021, 03:12:39 PM
Quote from: Mister E on May 15, 2021, 12:47:08 PM
Quote from: RamboandBruno on May 15, 2021, 12:16:56 PM
Quote from: Risso on May 14, 2021, 03:50:19 PM
Quote from: Moonraker on May 14, 2021, 03:32:52 PM
Got to assume Dean knows what he is doing with the kids. Pep used to get loads of stick for not giving Foden game time, and that seems to have worked out well

It’s a bit different when a player like Foden is trying to get to a start ahead of players like Sterling or the other world class players Man City have. We’re talking about giving our youngsters a run out instead of the truly hopeless Barkley.
He has played Ramsey ahead of Barkley quite a few times, up until the last 3 or 4 games, so he has given one of the younger players a chance. One step at a time and I want us to try and get as many points as possible with the games left, I’m not sure playing 2 or 3 youth players at the same time would help us do that. Next season Ramsey will get even more game time and we’ll start to see cup appearances from Chuka and Kessler I reckon
The point is that Chuk could play instead of Barkley now and probably make more impact.
I was responding to the point of giving our youngsters game time instead of Barkley. Ramsey is still one of our youngsters and has been given game time instead of Barkley. If the point being made is that other youngsters apart from Ramsey should be playing instead of Barkley, that is different. 
I know, mate. I was just reemphasising the point that both Ramsey and Chuk could play the role and get more from it, than the feckless Barkley.
We have options but continue to put him in the team - to the benefit of neither him nor the team.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: RamboandBruno on May 15, 2021, 04:44:03 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Mister E on May 15, 2021, 04:37:05 PM
Quote from: RamboandBruno on May 15, 2021, 03:12:39 PM
Quote from: Mister E on May 15, 2021, 12:47:08 PM
Quote from: RamboandBruno on May 15, 2021, 12:16:56 PM
Quote from: Risso on May 14, 2021, 03:50:19 PM
Quote from: Moonraker on May 14, 2021, 03:32:52 PM
Got to assume Dean knows what he is doing with the kids. Pep used to get loads of stick for not giving Foden game time, and that seems to have worked out well

It’s a bit different when a player like Foden is trying to get to a start ahead of players like Sterling or the other world class players Man City have. We’re talking about giving our youngsters a run out instead of the truly hopeless Barkley.
He has played Ramsey ahead of Barkley quite a few times, up until the last 3 or 4 games, so he has given one of the younger players a chance. One step at a time and I want us to try and get as many points as possible with the games left, I’m not sure playing 2 or 3 youth players at the same time would help us do that. Next season Ramsey will get even more game time and we’ll start to see cup appearances from Chuka and Kessler I reckon
The point is that Chuk could play instead of Barkley now and probably make more impact.
I was responding to the point of giving our youngsters game time instead of Barkley. Ramsey is still one of our youngsters and has been given game time instead of Barkley. If the point being made is that other youngsters apart from Ramsey should be playing instead of Barkley, that is different. 
I know, mate. I was just reemphasising the point that both Ramsey and Chuk could play the role and get more from it, than the feckless Barkley.
We have options but continue to put him in the team - to the benefit of neither him nor the team.

True, not really sure of the point of playing him now either, he can play tomorrow and against Spurs, other than Everton away, he hasn’t added anything since he came back. Although I’ve thought Ramsey has also struggled in the games he’s started, so tricky one. Maybe Ramsey deeper and McGinn further forward.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Mister E on May 15, 2021, 04:56:46 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: RamboandBruno on May 15, 2021, 04:44:03 PM
Quote from: Mister E on May 15, 2021, 04:37:05 PM
I know, mate. I was just reemphasising the point that both Ramsey and Chuk could play the role and get more from it, than the feckless Barkley.
We have options but continue to put him in the team - to the benefit of neither him nor the team.
True, not really sure of the point of playing him now either, he can play tomorrow and against Spurs, other than Everton away, he hasn’t added anything since he came back. Although I’ve thought Ramsey has also struggled in the games he’s started, so tricky one. Maybe Ramsey deeper and McGinn further forward.
Ramsey just needs more gametime. He is energetic, picks the easy pass, makes himself available and jockeys well. Because he also reads the game fairly well, he may fare better in a deeper role, interchanging with Luiz.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Dante Lavelli on May 15, 2021, 05:03:42 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Mister E on May 15, 2021, 04:56:46 PM
Quote from: RamboandBruno on May 15, 2021, 04:44:03 PM
Quote from: Mister E on May 15, 2021, 04:37:05 PM
I know, mate. I was just reemphasising the point that both Ramsey and Chuk could play the role and get more from it, than the feckless Barkley.
We have options but continue to put him in the team - to the benefit of neither him nor the team.
True, not really sure of the point of playing him now either, he can play tomorrow and against Spurs, other than Everton away, he hasn’t added anything since he came back. Although I’ve thought Ramsey has also struggled in the games he’s started, so tricky one. Maybe Ramsey deeper and McGinn further forward.
Ramsey just needs more gametime. He is energetic, picks the easy pass, makes himself available and jockeys well. Because he also reads the game fairly well, he may fare better in a deeper role, interchanging with Luiz.

I’m struggling to see what type of player Ramsey is at the moment; he looks a decent athlete and has a good touch but I’ve no idea whether he is a muncher, buzzer or spreader.  I really think a season on loan would do him the world of good, playing weekly and finding his identity.  

Ironically he’s almost done too well for that to happen now.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Smithy on May 15, 2021, 07:39:37 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Dante Lavelli on May 15, 2021, 05:03:42 PM
Quote from: Mister E on May 15, 2021, 04:56:46 PM
Quote from: RamboandBruno on May 15, 2021, 04:44:03 PM
Quote from: Mister E on May 15, 2021, 04:37:05 PM
I know, mate. I was just reemphasising the point that both Ramsey and Chuk could play the role and get more from it, than the feckless Barkley.
We have options but continue to put him in the team - to the benefit of neither him nor the team.
True, not really sure of the point of playing him now either, he can play tomorrow and against Spurs, other than Everton away, he hasn’t added anything since he came back. Although I’ve thought Ramsey has also struggled in the games he’s started, so tricky one. Maybe Ramsey deeper and McGinn further forward.
Ramsey just needs more gametime. He is energetic, picks the easy pass, makes himself available and jockeys well. Because he also reads the game fairly well, he may fare better in a deeper role, interchanging with Luiz.

I’m struggling to see what type of player Ramsey is at the moment; he looks a decent athlete and has a good touch but I’ve no idea whether he is a muncher, buzzer or spreader.  I really think a season on loan would do him the world of good, playing weekly and finding his identity.  

Ironically he’s almost done too well for that to happen now.

I think he's a modern footballer, coached from a young age to be capable at a number of aspects of the game required of a modern midfielder.  Whether he gets to the point where he 'excels' in one aspect above all the others, I guess time will tell.  But I'm not worried that a 19-year-old hasn't clearly defined the type of midfielder he is, or what his best position is.

He's certainly shown enough that he can be part of the first-team squad next season.  If we bring in another midfielder or two, then I'd happy to see him loaned to someone in the Championship (top half, hopefully), but I've no problem with him staying and getting another 10-20 appearances for us next season.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on May 15, 2021, 08:05:27 PM
			

			

				A very good point, Dante. I guess we could give him half a season out on loan with one of the stronger Championship teams providing he'll play often and of course we bring in new players to strengthen the existing squad. Foden was slowly eased into the Man City team until second half of this season he pretty much claimed a starting place.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on May 15, 2021, 08:10:38 PM
			

			

				The trick is to keep the special ones around and slowly integrate them into first team squad. Done it fine with Ramsey this year and I think Carney will have similar development next season, possibly Barry aswell but he's still very young and we will surely sign someone upfront.

Too often we fall into the tap of just thinking we can throw 5-6 of them all in one go and expect amazing results just because it works well in the youth team and because it worked for Man. United in 1995 and Leeds about 20 years ago.

Didn't work for us under SGT in his second spell and 2010 when Bannan, Albrighton, Hogg, Clark all started loads of games that season so it's a bit of a pipe dream to think at any point we'll have Kesler at RB, CM duo of Carney-Ramsey and Barry somewhere in the front 3.

Keep two around the first team and loan the rest out is what I'd do.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Exeter 77 on May 15, 2021, 09:56:14 PM
			

			

				I think a big part of Jacob Ramsey's development though may have been his loan at Doncaster last season but I don't disagree about us being able to integrate younger players into the first team squad with loaning them out. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: aj2k77 on May 16, 2021, 01:47:10 PM
			

			

				Is he capable of doing anything in game?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: kippaxvilla2 on May 16, 2021, 01:49:00 PM
			

			

				Was it Edens who fired a coach who got them up and got them to being an average team?  
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Villan82 on May 16, 2021, 01:52:05 PM
			

			

				He's done a cracking job in many ways but he needs to improve if we are to improve. This (and last season) I felt we left too many points behind us on the pitch. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Toronto Villa on May 16, 2021, 01:52:27 PM
			

			

				Proving again today that he’s not a top half PL manager. I don’t think he’s a bad manager, but he’s not at the level the club aspires to be. He will be the victim of being overtaken by the ambitions of the club. He’s developed into a mid table manager in the 10-13th range. That’s not going to cut it given where the owners want us to be.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: richtheholtender on May 16, 2021, 01:52:56 PM
			

			

				Still playing the same tactics as the day he walked in. He has been given a lot of resources and not having changing anything is beyond belief. Very fortunate to have picked up the 12 points at the beginning of the season. It’s not where we are going to finish, it’s how it’s been achieved. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: JUAN PABLO on May 16, 2021, 01:54:26 PM
			

			

				he was poor today - gettinng hammered by palace and didnt have a clue what to do .. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: andyh on May 16, 2021, 01:54:50 PM
			

			

				I really don’t see how he can take us to the next level.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: pauliewalnuts on May 16, 2021, 01:54:53 PM
			

			

				Looking like we're going to finish with 14 points more than last season, which is definite improvement, but hugely underwhelming after the hope of the early part of the season.

He hasn't got a clue how to manage matches. If it all goes well for him, then fair enough, let it play off, but when the tables are turning against us, he pretty much never reacts.

20 minutes before their third, it looked absolutely obvious were were going to lose that match.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: aj2k77 on May 16, 2021, 01:55:46 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Toronto Villa on May 16, 2021, 01:52:27 PM
Proving again today that he’s not a top half PL manager. I don’t think he’s a bad manager, but he’s not at the level the club aspires to be. He will be the victim of being overtaken by the ambitions of the club. He’s developed into a mid table manager in the 10-13th range. That’s not going to cut it given where the owners want us to be.

Well he got well and truly owned by Hodgson second half, who is a bottom half manager. 3 wins in 16. Subs are waaay too late. 2nd halfs consistently poor, formation changes about as likely as a Kienan Davis goal. Time is ticking when you have billionaire owners. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: OzVilla on May 16, 2021, 01:56:07 PM
			

			

				That 2nd half performance should make Smith very nervous. That was well into diabolical territory. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Brend'Watkins on May 16, 2021, 01:57:03 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: andyh on May 16, 2021, 01:54:50 PM
I really don’t see how he can take us to the next level.

Better players maybe?

Is our midfield as good as Palace's? It isn't.  
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Richard on May 16, 2021, 01:57:33 PM
			

			

				Now lost more than we have won. We should have had the game won by half time but went to pot second half and Smith has to take some of the blame. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: BC Villain on May 16, 2021, 01:57:45 PM
			

			

				Time to go.  He never learns.  Thanks for the promotion Dean, but your out of your depth now
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: N'ZMAV on May 16, 2021, 01:57:48 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Brend'Watkins on May 16, 2021, 01:57:03 PM
Is our midfield as good as Palace's? It isn't.  
 Most people would rather have McGinn over McCarthy I assume. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Monty on May 16, 2021, 01:58:56 PM
			

			

				Maybe he needs another coach, or someone on the staff needs replacing, like how Ferguson would hire Queiroz and the like when he felt he was going stale. Someone to help tactical management. I mean, if it's good enough for Ferguson then it's good enough for Smith.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: andyh on May 16, 2021, 01:59:20 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Brend'Watkins on May 16, 2021, 01:57:03 PM
Quote from: andyh on May 16, 2021, 01:54:50 PM
I really don’t see how he can take us to the next level.

Better players maybe?

Is our midfield as good as Palace's? It isn't.  
Yes you are right, better players, but after today’s performance we need quite a few and another £200m.

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Brend'Watkins on May 16, 2021, 02:00:43 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: N'ZMAV on May 16, 2021, 01:57:48 PM
Quote from: Brend'Watkins on May 16, 2021, 01:57:03 PM
Is our midfield as good as Palace's? It isn't.  
 Most people would rather have McGinn over McCarthy I assume. 

That's just one player.  We have more players who can give the ball away cheaply than any other team and it all stems from the middle.  Shit passing, dallying on the ball, no leaders or winners in there. 

I'll also add is McGinn as good as Eze?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: LukeJames on May 16, 2021, 02:00:45 PM
			

			

				He'll easily keep us around Mid-table going next season and for were he's come from anf worked his way up thats admirable and a success. 
Is that good enough for were our owners want us to be? I have huge doubts. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Toronto Villa on May 16, 2021, 02:00:51 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: OzVilla on May 16, 2021, 01:56:07 PM
That 2nd half performance should make Smith very nervous. That was well into diabolical territory. 

He will no doubt blame the players
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: levico on May 16, 2021, 02:02:36 PM
			

			

				Another weekend f***ed up by Smith’s poor game management.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Rudy65 on May 16, 2021, 02:03:12 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Monty on May 16, 2021, 01:58:56 PM
Maybe he needs another coach, or someone on the staff needs replacing, like how Ferguson would hire Queiroz and the like when he felt he was going stale. Someone to help tactical management. I mean, if it's good enough for Ferguson then it's good enough for Smith.

He has got more than enough coaches. Needs a look in the mirror.  Form guide over the last 15 has us fourth bottom. Relegation form
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Toronto Villa on May 16, 2021, 02:03:16 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Monty on May 16, 2021, 01:58:56 PM
Maybe he needs another coach, or someone on the staff needs replacing, like how Ferguson would hire Queiroz and the like when he felt he was going stale. Someone to help tactical management. I mean, if it's good enough for Ferguson then it's good enough for Smith.

Ferguson for all his tea cup tossing bravado was also light years ahead of others in terms of what it took to run a massive club. That is coaching, analytics, squad management and the psychological warfare against all others in getting that edge. I don’t think Dean Smith is broad enough mentally to grasp all of that. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: caster troy on May 16, 2021, 02:03:50 PM
			

			

				He is so frustrating. Why doesn't he make changes? It's not like the goals were against the run of play, they were all over us. Ramsey was a complete passenger today, why didn't he take him off? 


			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: passport1 on May 16, 2021, 02:04:44 PM
			

			

				As I have previously said I think the owners will take a long hard look at the second half of the season. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Axl Rose on May 16, 2021, 02:04:53 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Brend'Watkins on May 16, 2021, 02:00:43 PM
Quote from: N'ZMAV on May 16, 2021, 01:57:48 PM
Quote from: Brend'Watkins on May 16, 2021, 01:57:03 PM
Is our midfield as good as Palace's? It isn't.  
 Most people would rather have McGinn over McCarthy I assume. 

That's just one player.  We have more players who can give the ball away cheaply than any other team and it all stems from the middle.  Shit passing, dallying on the ball, no leaders or winners in there. 

I'll also add is McGinn as good as Eze?

Eze looks like he'll go to the very top. McGinn is great on his day. Unfortunately his day isn't very often. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: AlexAlexCropley on May 16, 2021, 02:05:20 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Toronto Villa on May 16, 2021, 02:03:16 PM
Quote from: Monty on May 16, 2021, 01:58:56 PM
Maybe he needs another coach, or someone on the staff needs replacing, like how Ferguson would hire Queiroz and the like when he felt he was going stale. Someone to help tactical management. I mean, if it's good enough for Ferguson then it's good enough for Smith.

Ferguson for all his tea cup tossing bravado was also light years ahead of others in terms of what it took to run a massive club. That is coaching, analytics, squad management and the psychological warfare against all others in getting that edge. I don’t think Dean Smith is broad enough mentally to grasp all of that.
How on earth do you know that?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ads on May 16, 2021, 02:05:23 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Toronto Villa on May 16, 2021, 02:03:16 PM
Quote from: Monty on May 16, 2021, 01:58:56 PM
Maybe he needs another coach, or someone on the staff needs replacing, like how Ferguson would hire Queiroz and the like when he felt he was going stale. Someone to help tactical management. I mean, if it's good enough for Ferguson then it's good enough for Smith.

Ferguson for all his tea cup tossing bravado was also light years ahead of others in terms of what it took to run a massive club. That is coaching, analytics, squad management and the psychological warfare against all others in getting that edge. I don’t think Dean Smith is broad enough mentally to grasp all of that. 

Bit of a daft comparison isn't it, Smith against the greatest ever. Its like thrashing the car sat in your drive because its not a Jaguar E Type.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ez on May 16, 2021, 02:06:59 PM
			

			

				It's infuriating that he won't change anything  until we are losing.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Villan82 on May 16, 2021, 02:08:51 PM
			

			

				He has spent a lot of money now (and in a pandemic, let's not forget). Martinez, Watkins and Cash were three quality additions and Traore wasn't a bad signing either. He has been backed more than any villa manager since O'Neill.

Avoiding a relegation scrap is a big improvement but we need to start aiming higher than that at some point- Grealish, Martinez, Konsa, Mings, Watkins are very good players to build a team around. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: CT on May 16, 2021, 02:08:55 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: BC Villain on May 16, 2021, 01:57:45 PM
Time to go.  He never learns.  Thanks for the promotion Dean, but your out of your depth now

Same for Terry, O’Kelly and Shakespeare then? Always seems to be a team effort when we win and Smith alone when we lose. Where’s their fucking input? 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Steve67 on May 16, 2021, 02:09:04 PM
			

			

				Our midfield is like Swiss cheese. He brings in Barkley/Sanson instead of the much needed proper defensive midfielder. We continue to give away more chances or shots per game than most. He’s done well to stabilise the club but loyalty is a commodity in short supply in football. 3 wins in 16 is bang relegation form, thank God we started well. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Monty on May 16, 2021, 02:09:31 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Ads on May 16, 2021, 02:05:23 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on May 16, 2021, 02:03:16 PM
Quote from: Monty on May 16, 2021, 01:58:56 PM
Maybe he needs another coach, or someone on the staff needs replacing, like how Ferguson would hire Queiroz and the like when he felt he was going stale. Someone to help tactical management. I mean, if it's good enough for Ferguson then it's good enough for Smith.

Ferguson for all his tea cup tossing bravado was also light years ahead of others in terms of what it took to run a massive club. That is coaching, analytics, squad management and the psychological warfare against all others in getting that edge. I don’t think Dean Smith is broad enough mentally to grasp all of that. 

Bit of a daft comparison isn't it, Smith against the greatest ever. Its like thrashing the car sat in your drive because its not a Jaguar E Type.

Quite. I just meant that this one thing Ferguson did sometimes might be useful. 

The interesting thing about Ferguson oddly was his humility, by which I mean his willingness to recognise when he was wrong and change things up, as opposed to the likes of MON who would sacrifice everything before their own ego. If delegating certain things to Queiroz was good enough for the greatest ever, then I don't see why Dean Smith shouldn't do something similar. 

Surely he can see where the problem lies? You can't ask players to be honest with themselves and work on their weaknesses without doing the same yourself.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Rudy65 on May 16, 2021, 02:10:20 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: CT on May 16, 2021, 02:08:55 PM
Quote from: BC Villain on May 16, 2021, 01:57:45 PM
Time to go.  He never learns.  Thanks for the promotion Dean, but your out of your depth now

Same for Terry, O’Kelly and Shakespeare then? Always seems to be a team effort when we win and Smith alone when we lose. Where’s their fucking input?

Buck stops with the manager. End of
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Toronto Villa on May 16, 2021, 02:10:57 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Ads on May 16, 2021, 02:05:23 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on May 16, 2021, 02:03:16 PM
Quote from: Monty on May 16, 2021, 01:58:56 PM
Maybe he needs another coach, or someone on the staff needs replacing, like how Ferguson would hire Queiroz and the like when he felt he was going stale. Someone to help tactical management. I mean, if it's good enough for Ferguson then it's good enough for Smith.

Ferguson for all his tea cup tossing bravado was also light years ahead of others in terms of what it took to run a massive club. That is coaching, analytics, squad management and the psychological warfare against all others in getting that edge. I don’t think Dean Smith is broad enough mentally to grasp all of that. 

Bit of a daft comparison isn't it, Smith against the greatest ever. Its like thrashing the car sat in your drive because its not a Jaguar E Type.

Not really. I was responding to the point that Ferguson had other tactical coaches to advise him. Dean Smith’s tactical team is Richard O’Kelly, Craig Shakespeare, John Terry and the person he seems to listen to the most during a game, the GK coach Neil Cutler. Dean Smith has proven he either doesn’t have the required in game management skills poor the advise he does get isn’t very good. He was absolutely out coached by Hodgson today who changed something to turn Palace into world beaters n the second half. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: richtheholtender on May 16, 2021, 02:11:35 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: ez on May 16, 2021, 02:06:59 PM
It's infuriating that he won't change anything  until we are losing.




Exactly and given the circumstances we’ve been in for a while. We have had a free hit for ages now and he’s done nothing!!  All we have done since we lost Jack is continue with this 4-3-3 which without him makes us just a weaker version of us. If with Jack we are at best in with a fighting chance in games why does he think without him we will be any better?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ads on May 16, 2021, 02:11:46 PM
			

			

				The problem lies with the squad. It's a midtable squad and it's delivering midtable form and results. There's plenty to work with, but if we want to compete in the top 8, we need 4 good quality players.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Toronto Villa on May 16, 2021, 02:12:00 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Monty on May 16, 2021, 02:09:31 PM
Quote from: Ads on May 16, 2021, 02:05:23 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on May 16, 2021, 02:03:16 PM
Quote from: Monty on May 16, 2021, 01:58:56 PM
Maybe he needs another coach, or someone on the staff needs replacing, like how Ferguson would hire Queiroz and the like when he felt he was going stale. Someone to help tactical management. I mean, if it's good enough for Ferguson then it's good enough for Smith.

Ferguson for all his tea cup tossing bravado was also light years ahead of others in terms of what it took to run a massive club. That is coaching, analytics, squad management and the psychological warfare against all others in getting that edge. I don’t think Dean Smith is broad enough mentally to grasp all of that. 

Bit of a daft comparison isn't it, Smith against the greatest ever. Its like thrashing the car sat in your drive because its not a Jaguar E Type.

Quite. I just meant that this one thing Ferguson did sometimes might be useful. 

The interesting thing about Ferguson oddly was his humility, by which I mean his willingness to recognise when he was wrong and change things up, as opposed to the likes of MON who would sacrifice everything before their own ego. If delegating certain things to Queiroz was good enough for the greatest ever, then I don't see why Dean Smith shouldn't do something similar. 

Surely he can see where the problem lies? You can't ask players to be honest with themselves and work on their weaknesses without doing the same yourself.

Can he though? I guarantee today he will blame the players after the game. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on May 16, 2021, 02:13:12 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Ads on May 16, 2021, 02:11:46 PM
The problem lies with the squad. It's a midtable squad and it's delivering midtable form and results. There's plenty to work with, but if we want to compete in the top 8, we need 4 good quality players.

The form for the second half of the season isn't mid-table though, it's relegation battle form. Stick with Smith, and I think we'll be in for another mediocre season at best next year. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Toronto Villa on May 16, 2021, 02:13:48 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Ads on May 16, 2021, 02:11:46 PM
The problem lies with the squad. It's a midtable squad and it's delivering midtable form and results. There's plenty to work with, but if we want to compete in the top 8, we need 4 good quality players.

The Palace squad over the season has proven itself to be worse than us but you’d never know it today. How did they manage that? I don’t disagree with the broader point we need better players, but the drop in quality and performance should not be this steep. And not just today. Over the past 20 odd games, it’s not a small sample size.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Smirker on May 16, 2021, 02:14:07 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on May 16, 2021, 02:13:12 PM
Quote from: Ads on May 16, 2021, 02:11:46 PM
The problem lies with the squad. It's a midtable squad and it's delivering midtable form and results. There's plenty to work with, but if we want to compete in the top 8, we need 4 good quality players.

The form for the second half of the season isn't mid-table though, it's relegation battle form. Stick with Smith, and I think we'll be in for another mediocre season at best next year.

Who do you suggest we replace him with? 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Rudy65 on May 16, 2021, 02:14:34 PM
			

			

				The buck stops with Smith but the players were awful SH. No leadership without Mings 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Toronto Villa on May 16, 2021, 02:14:48 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Smirker on May 16, 2021, 02:14:07 PM
Quote from: Risso on May 16, 2021, 02:13:12 PM
Quote from: Ads on May 16, 2021, 02:11:46 PM
The problem lies with the squad. It's a midtable squad and it's delivering midtable form and results. There's plenty to work with, but if we want to compete in the top 8, we need 4 good quality players.

The form for the second half of the season isn't mid-table though, it's relegation battle form. Stick with Smith, and I think we'll be in for another mediocre season at best next year.

Who do you suggest we replace him with? 

Someone better unless you are suggesting there couldn’t possibly be anyone better out there.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Uknowthescore on May 16, 2021, 02:15:44 PM
			

			

				19 - Aston Villa have dropped 19 points from winning positions in 2021, the joint-most of any side in England's top four tiers along with Walsall and Wigan Athletic. They hadn't dropped a single point from a winning position this season before the turn of the year. Antagonist

Taken from Twitter. Got to look at smith being mostly at fault for this 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ads on May 16, 2021, 02:15:53 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on May 16, 2021, 02:13:12 PM
Quote from: Ads on May 16, 2021, 02:11:46 PM
The problem lies with the squad. It's a midtable squad and it's delivering midtable form and results. There's plenty to work with, but if we want to compete in the top 8, we need 4 good quality players.

The form for the second half of the season isn't mid-table though, it's relegation battle form. Stick with Smith, and I think we'll be in for another mediocre season at best next year. 

With this squad, probably. But it will almost certainly be improved. If we don't drop another £100m spend I'd be very surprised.

First half, great, second half poor. We could be talking about the season as a whole or a number of games we've played, males no odds. That maddening inconsistency is a symptom of mediocrity. Disappointing given how it could have gone, but overall a bit of meh is a welcome island in a choppy last(lost) decade.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Toronto Villa on May 16, 2021, 02:15:59 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Rudy65 on May 16, 2021, 02:14:34 PM
The buck stops with Smith but the players were awful SH. No leadership without Mings 

We got worse after the actual club captain came on and Palace completely nullified him on that side.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Rudy65 on May 16, 2021, 02:16:21 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Ads on May 16, 2021, 02:11:46 PM
The problem lies with the squad. It's a midtable squad and it's delivering midtable form and results. There's plenty to work with, but if we want to compete in the top 8, we need 4 good quality players.

You are being too kind. The squad is giving us 4th bottom position of the last 15 games
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Toronto Villa on May 16, 2021, 02:17:37 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Uknowthescore on May 16, 2021, 02:15:44 PM
19 - Aston Villa have dropped 19 points from winning positions in 2021, the joint-most of any side in England's top four tiers along with Walsall and Wigan Athletic. They hadn't dropped a single point from a winning position this season before the turn of the year. Antagonist

Taken from Twitter. Got to look at smith being mostly at fault for this 

The silver lining in that stat is that we were in those positions to begin with. The concern I have is Dean Smith capable of next season taking even 50% of those points and improving us again?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Smirker on May 16, 2021, 02:17:44 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Toronto Villa on May 16, 2021, 02:14:48 PM
Quote from: Smirker on May 16, 2021, 02:14:07 PM
Quote from: Risso on May 16, 2021, 02:13:12 PM
Quote from: Ads on May 16, 2021, 02:11:46 PM
The problem lies with the squad. It's a midtable squad and it's delivering midtable form and results. There's plenty to work with, but if we want to compete in the top 8, we need 4 good quality players.

The form for the second half of the season isn't mid-table though, it's relegation battle form. Stick with Smith, and I think we'll be in for another mediocre season at best next year.

Who do you suggest we replace him with? 

Someone better unless you are suggesting there couldn’t possibly be anyone better out there.

Well there's Klopp and Pep but who is actually going to come here? 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Brend'Watkins on May 16, 2021, 02:18:03 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Ads on May 16, 2021, 02:11:46 PM
The problem lies with the squad. It's a midtable squad and it's delivering midtable form and results. There's plenty to work with, but if we want to compete in the top 8, we need 4 good quality players.

You can blame systems, formations, tactics or whatever but if the squad isn't good enough you'll only get so far. We have a mid table squad with 5 or 6 top players when they are on it. 

As you say we need 4, I'd settle for 3 quality players which has to include an enforcer in the middle. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ads on May 16, 2021, 02:18:08 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Rudy65 on May 16, 2021, 02:16:21 PM
Quote from: Ads on May 16, 2021, 02:11:46 PM
The problem lies with the squad. It's a midtable squad and it's delivering midtable form and results. There's plenty to work with, but if we want to compete in the top 8, we need 4 good quality players.

You are being too kind. The squad is giving us 4th bottom position of the last 15 games

Form table based on 36 says something different.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: KevinGage on May 16, 2021, 02:18:19 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Toronto Villa on May 16, 2021, 02:03:16 PM
Quote from: Monty on May 16, 2021, 01:58:56 PM
Maybe he needs another coach, or someone on the staff needs replacing, like how Ferguson would hire Queiroz and the like when he felt he was going stale. Someone to help tactical management. I mean, if it's good enough for Ferguson then it's good enough for Smith.

Ferguson for all his tea cup tossing bravado was also light years ahead of others in terms of what it took to run a massive club. That is coaching, analytics, squad management and the psychological warfare against all others in getting that edge. I don’t think Dean Smith is broad enough mentally to grasp all of that. 

It's frustrating, because I think he is open to change. 

Unlike dinosaurs like O'Neill and McLeish, say. 

He's not so arrogant to think he has all the answers, and regularly got fresh input from new coaches at Brentford and now Villa (Terry, then Shakespeare).   One or both of them may be off this summer; Terry spoke about wanting three years experience coaching before taking a management gig and will be in the frame for any decent Championship gig that becomes available this summer.  Shakespeare may hook up with Nigel Pearson at Bristol again. 

So he could be forced into freshening it up anyway.  

We seen the response post lockdown 2020 when we did become more resolute and hard to beat. He had the way he wanted to play, but was pragmatic enough to alter it. So the penny did drop. 

But it is a regular concern that when the opposition switch it up we don't seem able to respond. Also, if we start slow, it's rare for us to grow into the game and improve as Palace did today. 

We've just made one of the most shot-shy sides in the league look like a total football outfit. It's the most chances they've created all season. Add it to the horror shows against Sheff U away when we couldn't beat the worst side in the division despite them being down to ten men and Burnleh second half. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on May 16, 2021, 02:18:44 PM
			

			

				Will be under more pressure next season as we will surely spend another 100m this summer and also still have Sanson to hopefully play a significant part next season.

Needs to get those signings right otherwise I suspect we'll reach a Claude Puel at Leicester type point 3-4 months into next season.

Hopefully he steps up but second halves like today are why a few of us have question marks in the long term in how high he can really get us up the league.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Toronto Villa on May 16, 2021, 02:19:53 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Smirker on May 16, 2021, 02:17:44 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on May 16, 2021, 02:14:48 PM
Quote from: Smirker on May 16, 2021, 02:14:07 PM
Quote from: Risso on May 16, 2021, 02:13:12 PM
Quote from: Ads on May 16, 2021, 02:11:46 PM
The problem lies with the squad. It's a midtable squad and it's delivering midtable form and results. There's plenty to work with, but if we want to compete in the top 8, we need 4 good quality players.

The form for the second half of the season isn't mid-table though, it's relegation battle form. Stick with Smith, and I think we'll be in for another mediocre season at best next year.

Who do you suggest we replace him with? 

Someone better unless you are suggesting there couldn’t possibly be anyone better out there.

Well there's Klopp and Pep but who is actually going to come here? 

Why does it need to be a manager currently in England? There is an entire planet of coaches to pull from. It’s the job of the club to go attract one. Not like money will be a problem.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ads on May 16, 2021, 02:20:39 PM
			

			

				We don't do the ugly things well. I'm sure a striker, a 10 and a winger will be coming in, but it is the big horrible bastard in midfield who we need and will prove most useful.

Somebody who would have closed Eze and crunched him. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: DB on May 16, 2021, 02:20:41 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Ads on May 16, 2021, 02:18:08 PM
Quote from: Rudy65 on May 16, 2021, 02:16:21 PM
Quote from: Ads on May 16, 2021, 02:11:46 PM
The problem lies with the squad. It's a midtable squad and it's delivering midtable form and results. There's plenty to work with, but if we want to compete in the top 8, we need 4 good quality players.

You are being too kind. The squad is giving us 4th bottom position of the last 15 games

Form table based on 36 says something different.

Form is heading in the wrong direction.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Monty on May 16, 2021, 02:21:39 PM
			

			

				Not that I am advocating for replacing Smith, but in a world where Everton can hire Carlo Ancelotti I don't think we need be so humble about what our choice of manager might be. No more Curbishleys and Holloways in the rumour pages if the time does come.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Toronto Villa on May 16, 2021, 02:22:31 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: KevinGage on May 16, 2021, 02:18:19 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on May 16, 2021, 02:03:16 PM
Quote from: Monty on May 16, 2021, 01:58:56 PM
Maybe he needs another coach, or someone on the staff needs replacing, like how Ferguson would hire Queiroz and the like when he felt he was going stale. Someone to help tactical management. I mean, if it's good enough for Ferguson then it's good enough for Smith.

Ferguson for all his tea cup tossing bravado was also light years ahead of others in terms of what it took to run a massive club. That is coaching, analytics, squad management and the psychological warfare against all others in getting that edge. I don’t think Dean Smith is broad enough mentally to grasp all of that. 

It's frustrating, because I think he is open to change. 

Unlike dinosaurs like O'Neill and McLeish, say. 

He's not so arrogant to think he has all the answers, and regularly got fresh input from new coaches at Brentford and now Villa (Terry, then Shakespeare).   One or both of them may be off this summer; Terry spoke about wanting three years experience coaching before taking a management gig and will be in the frame for any decent Championship gig that becomes available this summer.  Shakespeare may hook up with Nigel Pearson at Bristol again. 

So he could be forced into freshening it up anyway.  

We seen the response post lockdown 2020 when we did become more resolute and hard to beat. He had the way he wanted to play, but was pragmatic enough to alter it. So the penny did drop. 

But it is a regular concern that when the opposition switch it up we don't seem able to respond. Also, if we start slow, it's rare for us to grow into the game and improve as Palace did today. 

We've just made one of the most shot-shy sides in the league look like a total football outfit. It's the most chances they've created all season. Add it to the horror shows against Sheff U away when we couldn't beat the worst side in the division despite them being down to ten men and Burnleh second half. 

That last paragraph is my point KG. The drop off should not be as steep. Even in games without Jack, I accept a drop off but we literally went from contending for a top 4-6 spot to lower mid table or relegation form. Today we went from comfortable and cruising to looking like Palace were playing a side from league 1. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: BC Villain on May 16, 2021, 02:23:35 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: CT on May 16, 2021, 02:08:55 PM
Quote from: BC Villain on May 16, 2021, 01:57:45 PM
Time to go.  He never learns.  Thanks for the promotion Dean, but your out of your depth now

Same for Terry, O’Kelly and Shakespeare then? Always seems to be a team effort when we win and Smith alone when we lose. Where’s their fucking input?

Yes, they need to take responsibility too, but Smith is the top man here.  
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Rudy65 on May 16, 2021, 02:26:09 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Ads on May 16, 2021, 02:18:08 PM
Quote from: Rudy65 on May 16, 2021, 02:16:21 PM
Quote from: Ads on May 16, 2021, 02:11:46 PM
The problem lies with the squad. It's a midtable squad and it's delivering midtable form and results. There's plenty to work with, but if we want to compete in the top 8, we need 4 good quality players.

You are being too kind. The squad is giving us 4th bottom position of the last 15 games

Form table based on 36 says something different.

True but most managers and teams are judged on recent form. The last 15 games make me worried for next season.  We didn’t lose today because we were unlucky we lost because we were truly awful SH. Smith will get a pass because of Jack being missing but the problems are greater than that. Today was a feeble surrender and is a symptom of our form since January 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ez on May 16, 2021, 02:27:08 PM
			

			

				We needed Traore and Sanson to be good. Sadly they are no better than what we already had.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on May 16, 2021, 02:27:28 PM
			

			

				Just been looking at Burnley away and crikey it's pretty identical to how today panned out.

No subs at 2-1 up, nothing at 2-2 and then suddenly after Burnley went 3-2 up 3 changes were made straight after to little effect.

Today he did at least put Jack on when we were 2-1 up but there were 10 minutes between 2-2 Palace and 3-2 Palace. Nothing happened, not even calling for a sub but some sort of tactical tweak to stop them getting crosses in as aside from Hause we lost so many free headers in the box today it was untrue.

As soon as Palace went 3-2 up Davis was thrown on but too late and he barely touched it aside from the late header. More logical to make changes at 2-2 when games are more open and stretched but two games four months apart and little changed in second halves we lost control of.

Both teams we lost to will be finishing below us so they're no world beaters.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Toronto Villa on May 16, 2021, 02:27:30 PM
			

			

				And there you go. What exactly did you do Dean to counter what they did in the second half? 

Dean Smith: "I'm bitterly disappointed and annoyed as well. I came in at HT because it was a strong performance. Then, second half, they counter-pressed us and we never played with the same quality on the ball."
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: rougegorge on May 16, 2021, 02:27:38 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Ads on May 16, 2021, 02:20:39 PM
We don't do the ugly things well. I'm sure a striker, a 10 and a winger will be coming in, but it is the big horrible bastard in midfield who we need and will prove most useful.

Somebody who would have closed Eze and crunched him.
I certainly hope we will get someone that is going to do more than that and end up getting suspended all the time.

However I agree we need a better defensive midfield shield, but with players that can offer more.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Smirker on May 16, 2021, 02:28:27 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: ez on May 16, 2021, 02:27:08 PM
We needed Traore and Sanson to be good. Sadly they are no better than what we already had.

Sanson has hardly played. Judge him next season. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Toronto Villa on May 16, 2021, 02:29:31 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: ez on May 16, 2021, 02:27:08 PM
We needed Traore and Sanson to be good. Sadly they are no better than what we already had.

After one season of Traore who has scored some tremendous goals and been involved in some excellent moves, and a few games of Sanson I’m not sure how you can say that. The sample size especially on the latter is way too small. Players improve over a season as we have seen in our squad. Can the manager get the best out of both of them will be the key.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ez on May 16, 2021, 02:32:15 PM
			

			

				With even more additions in the summer we will have a lot of midfielders at the club next season. At least we can offload Barkley.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Jonathan on May 16, 2021, 02:32:42 PM
			

			

				Smith seems incapable to adjusting his tactics mid-game. He always reacts rather than being proactive, which I think is the sign of a top manager. Yes we could give him £100m to spend this Summer but that lack of tactical flexibility will still be there. We see it time and again, that the opposition makes changes that brings them back into the game, hence our record for throwing away the most leads in 2021. I like Smith, but I just don't see him capable of breaking into the top six. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Toronto Villa on May 16, 2021, 02:36:46 PM
			

			

				After what was such a superb start to the season we are going to end with an immense sense of emptiness. I don’t see us getting much at all from the last twin games. So instead of top 6 or top 8, we will likely end up 12th which, while an improvement is a mile away from what we might have achieved. We will finish a good distance below Leeds and Arsenal, the latter we showed over two games to be at minimum their equal, and in the first so much better than. Really disappointing how it will all finish up.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: curiousorange on May 16, 2021, 02:42:33 PM
			

			

				Not for me, Clive. The first half of this season's given him the summer, which is about fair. But I'd say he might not make it past October now.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: aj2k77 on May 16, 2021, 02:44:22 PM
			

			

				And we've faded away because other teams know our strengths, know our weaknesses, know our formations and tactics and have adjusted accordingly. Beacuse we do the same things every single week, no matter who we play. It's lazy management by numbers. It takes more than spending £100m each summer and throwing them on the pitch to be a good manager.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: boutrosboutrosgnarly on May 16, 2021, 02:44:57 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: ez on May 16, 2021, 02:27:08 PM
We needed Traore and Sanson to be good. Sadly they are no better than what we already had.
Sanson not good enough after NINE appearances.Well can't say he hasn't been given a chance.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Bobby Boy on May 16, 2021, 02:48:31 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Jonathan on May 16, 2021, 02:32:42 PM
Smith seems incapable to adjusting his tactics mid-game. He always reacts rather than being proactive, which I think is the sign of a top manager. Yes we could give him £100m to spend this Summer but that lack of tactical flexibility will still be there. We see it time and again, that the opposition makes changes that brings them back into the game, hence our record for throwing away the most leads in 2021. I like Smith, but I just don't see him capable of breaking into the top six. 

This is it exactly. Smith doesn't seem to be able to spot the danger signs in a game. Today was a classic example of his lack of decisive action but it has happened numerous times.

When he does react it is invariably too late and makes no difference. 

I like Dean Smith, I like the fact that he's a Villa fan but ultimately I want him to put us in the best place to win games. He has got to be more proactive and flexible than he seems prepared to be.

It's been a decent season but the second half has been worrying and it is more than just the loss of Grealish. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: BC Villain on May 16, 2021, 02:56:27 PM
			

			

				If he is still here, then he'll be under serious scrutiny given how we've ended this season.  Very likely he'd be one of the bookies favourites to be the first sacking of the season.  

His post match interviews tell you he can see the problem (when he'snot bitching about referee's), yet he never reacts to them.  And it's not a new thing, as Walsall fans used to complain about his stubbornness when it came to making changes during the game.  

We looked terrific today until Palace pressed us.  Likewise, we were brilliant at Burnley until they pressed us.  
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: kippaxvilla2 on May 16, 2021, 02:57:47 PM
			

			

				I was so annoyed when he wouldn’t put Jordy Hiwula on that time.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: themossman on May 16, 2021, 02:57:52 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: PaulWinch again on November 01, 2020, 01:59:52 PM
Dean has to learn how to react earlier when things are going against us. He’s far too passive.

Not checked in for a while and this was the first comment I read, from November.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: curiousorange on May 16, 2021, 03:01:03 PM
			

			

				That's one of the things that really annoys me about Smith - he talks an excellent tactical game, about setting traps and pressing and all that stuff, and then when we don't win he seems to act like he couldn't possibly have done anything about it, and kind of shrugs his shoulders as if to say, 'yeah, it is what it is.' Bruce got crucified for more or less the same thing but because it wasn't rooted in xG speak, he didn't get away with it.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: themossman on May 16, 2021, 03:03:46 PM
			

			

				If smith knows these things (which I’m sure he does) but he doesn’t execute them in games, then something about his character not his ability must be holding him (and us) back which is probably harder to change. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: BC Villain on May 16, 2021, 03:08:15 PM
			

			

				Bruce had a habit of throwing his players under the bus as opposed to taking responsibility himself.  Smith is a tad more subtle, but his does it as well to an extent as well.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on May 16, 2021, 03:12:54 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: themossman on May 16, 2021, 03:03:46 PM
If smith knows these things (which I’m sure he does) but he doesn’t execute them in games, then something about his character not his ability must be holding him (and us) back which is probably harder to change. 

It's a lack of confidence/decisiveness imo.

How often over last two years has camera panned on him around 60th minute mark and he's talking with Shakespeare, Terry and sometimes Cutler aswell. Another 3-4 minutes and they're still talking and then eventually 5 minutes later a sub will finally come on....and it's just a like for like change.

The very best managers usually react very quickly to game swings and deal with consequences after the match if result goes against them. Won't stop them doing the same the next match if situation dictates and they don't need to run it by their assistants for five minutes, they just do it.

I can't understand today why nothing happened between 2-2 and 3-2, there was a 10 minute gap. Then as soon as Palace score the third Davis comes on but surely it's more logical to do it when 2-2 and game is more open and stretched, all Palace had to do was just defend 18 yard box when ahead and we couldn't create anything.

Dean's done very well to establish us back into prem mid table but I fear that's his limit and with the money the owners are pumping in they are surely expecting much more in the long run.

He deserves next season (or most of it) but would be interested to see what happens if we have our annual 1 win in 10 match slump around November/December.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on May 16, 2021, 03:16:03 PM
			

			

				I just hope that our owners are as ambitious as they appear and can see that this is probably as good as it gets under Smith.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: themossman on May 16, 2021, 03:20:49 PM
			

			

				I agree, I think he’s unusually thoughtful and lacking in self belief for a football manager, who are mostly intransigent, egotistical sociopaths. It’s why he’s so likeable, probably a strength in many ways, but it’s his weakness when it comes to reacting quickly in games.

It’s funny that he didn’t seem to behave very differently when we were the form team in the league. I think it’s a character feature and it isn’t going to change. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ez on May 16, 2021, 03:23:53 PM
			

			

				I'd like to see him get the start of next season but questions need to be asked. This poor run has gone on too long to just ignore.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on May 16, 2021, 03:28:50 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: ez on May 16, 2021, 03:23:53 PM
I'd like to see him get the start of next season but questions need to be asked. This poor run has gone on too long to just ignore.

Nah. No point giving him the summer and then wasting the start of next season, give a new bloke the chance to shape his squad in the summer instead. 21 points from the last 21 games, exactly the same as Steve Bruce at Newcastle, and only slightly better than Big Sam at West Brom. Extremely poor. Every week he talks absout finishing the season as strongly as possible, and nearly every week he serves up dross.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: chrisw1 on May 16, 2021, 03:33:28 PM
			

			

				Lets face it if the season was the other way round he would have been sacked by Christmas.  He deservedly bought time with the excellent start but this is a long run of very poor performances now.

I've not called for his head yet, but the owners must be thinking about it.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ez on May 16, 2021, 03:36:38 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on May 16, 2021, 03:28:50 PM
Quote from: ez on May 16, 2021, 03:23:53 PM
I'd like to see him get the start of next season but questions need to be asked. This poor run has gone on too long to just ignore.

Nah. No point giving him the summer and then wasting the start of next season, give a new bloke the chance to shape his squad in the summer instead. 21 points from the last 21 games, exactly the same as Steve Bruce at Newcastle, and only slightly better than Big Sam at West Brom. Extremely poor. Every week he talks absout finishing the season as strongly as possible, and nearly every week he serves up dross.
Yes i get that and because of this bad run i expect his card is marked but from where we were when he took over i still think he should get the new season but if this run carries over he'll have to go.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Villan82 on May 16, 2021, 03:41:42 PM
			

			

				We will have no momentum going into the new season. It's damn sh1t the way we let this one fizzle out. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ads on May 16, 2021, 03:46:51 PM
			

			

				Like Sheffield United and Wolves' momentum? 

Or that absence of momentum in West Ham and Leicester?

He's likely achieved the hard target and failed at the soft target. The higher up we go or seek to go, the smaller the room for error and the pressure increases. But there's no way he's getting sacked over the summer. People were very quick to call for him to go post Wigan in 2019, last season and now here they are again. He consistently proves people wrong and with more quality at his disposal following another summer of good recruitment, let's hope he does so again.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Taylor on May 16, 2021, 03:55:20 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Ads on May 16, 2021, 03:46:51 PM
Like Sheffield United and Wolves' momentum? 

Or that absence of momentum in West Ham and Leicester?

He's likely achieved the hard target and failed at the soft target. The higher up we go or seek to go, the smaller the room for error and the pressure increases. But there's no way he's getting sacked over the summer. People were very quick to call for him to go post Wigan in 2019, last season and now here they are again. He consistently proves people wrong and with more quality at his disposal following another summer of good recruitment, let's hope he does so again.
Absolutely. There is no way the owners are even thinking of sacking him.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: chrisw1 on May 16, 2021, 04:07:52 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Taylor on May 16, 2021, 03:55:20 PM
Quote from: Ads on May 16, 2021, 03:46:51 PM
Like Sheffield United and Wolves' momentum? 

Or that absence of momentum in West Ham and Leicester?

He's likely achieved the hard target and failed at the soft target. The higher up we go or seek to go, the smaller the room for error and the pressure increases. But there's no way he's getting sacked over the summer. People were very quick to call for him to go post Wigan in 2019, last season and now here they are again. He consistently proves people wrong and with more quality at his disposal following another summer of good recruitment, let's hope he does so again.
Absolutely. There is no way the owners are even thinking of sacking him.
You reckon?

After spending £100m we've won 4 of our last 24 games.  That's a 16.5% win percentage for well over half a season.  I can't see how it's likely to improve in our next two games.  I like Smith, but I don't see how the owners wouldn't at least be thinking about sacking him. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: villa for life on May 16, 2021, 04:10:09 PM
			

			

				They will. Just like with players, when the right person becomes available, they’ll make their move 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on May 16, 2021, 04:18:40 PM
			

			

				He was almost certainly going to get the tin tack after the Chelsea game last season, before the lockdown for Covid saved his job, so I don't think there's any good reason why they won't replace him if they think that there's somebody better available. We've been really poor for months now, and Smith trots out the same old lines, with nothing much changing on the pitch.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Chris Smith on May 16, 2021, 04:21:49 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Taylor on May 16, 2021, 03:55:20 PM
Quote from: Ads on May 16, 2021, 03:46:51 PM
Like Sheffield United and Wolves' momentum? 

Or that absence of momentum in West Ham and Leicester?

He's likely achieved the hard target and failed at the soft target. The higher up we go or seek to go, the smaller the room for error and the pressure increases. But there's no way he's getting sacked over the summer. People were very quick to call for him to go post Wigan in 2019, last season and now here they are again. He consistently proves people wrong and with more quality at his disposal following another summer of good recruitment, let's hope he does so again.
Absolutely. There is no way the owners are even thinking of sacking him.

Agreed, last season we finished with 35 points and a -26 goal difference. By any measure this season has been a massive improvement. It’s fanciful to think the owners will want to disrupt that progress.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on May 16, 2021, 04:26:27 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Chris Smith on May 16, 2021, 04:21:49 PM

Agreed, last season we finished with 35 points and a -26 goal difference. By any measure this season has been a massive improvement. It’s fanciful to think the owners will want to disrupt that progress.

The last 20 games have pretty well been as shit as that though. If the results for that period were extrapolated for the season, we'd finish on 38 points and a -13 goal difference.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Smirker on May 16, 2021, 04:29:05 PM
			

			

				I'm only open to Smith leaving if Allegri or someone of that calibre comes in.

Otherwise forget it!

And I think Dean is doing a great job, I'd rather he stay. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Toronto Villa on May 16, 2021, 04:37:27 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Smirker on May 16, 2021, 04:29:05 PM
I'm only open to Smith leaving if Allegri or someone of that calibre comes in.

Otherwise forget it!

And I think Dean is doing a great job, I'd rather he stay. 

There are better managers than Dean Smith out there before you arrive at Allegri.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john2710 on May 16, 2021, 04:38:07 PM
			

			

				In 30 months Dean has achieved the objectives set. Promotion, safety & mid-table. The next step will require better players & better management. 

He's earned the right to be there next season but he needs to step up.

The players will be upgraded & the manager will too if the owners think it's the best way forward.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: chrisw1 on May 16, 2021, 04:46:46 PM
			

			

				The progress argument would make a lot more sense if the bad results were spread over the season.  The £100m spent on the squad also helped, it's not like it is some sort of like for like comparison.  I just don't see how you can wash over the rut we're in.  He's had almost 5 months to come up with a solution and the fact he hasn't done so isn't really good enough.  
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: kippaxvilla2 on May 16, 2021, 04:51:23 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Toronto Villa on May 16, 2021, 04:37:27 PM
Quote from: Smirker on May 16, 2021, 04:29:05 PM
I'm only open to Smith leaving if Allegri or someone of that calibre comes in.

Otherwise forget it!

And I think Dean is doing a great job, I'd rather he stay. 

There are better managers than Dean Smith out there before you arrive at Allegri.

I would prefer Cortina.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Baldy on May 16, 2021, 04:53:46 PM
			

			

				For half a season we have been crap. Many a manager has been sacked for less. Deano is currently living on credit but the clock is ticking faster.

The owners will be asking themselves this big question. Do we trust Deano with 100m plus to bring us to the next level or do we appoint someone new with greater pulling power and better tactical nous?

Would not surprise me if the owners are currently looking for a new manager but will reserve their judgement until the alternatives are known.

To get where they want to be, our owners are clearly ruthless and not toothless. They are both winners.

IMHO, Deano has been a credit to the club but has taken us as far as his ability permits.

Whats Rafael Benitez doing these days?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Chris Smith on May 16, 2021, 04:54:55 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on May 16, 2021, 04:26:27 PM
Quote from: Chris Smith on May 16, 2021, 04:21:49 PM

Agreed, last season we finished with 35 points and a -26 goal difference. By any measure this season has been a massive improvement. It’s fanciful to think the owners will want to disrupt that progress.

The last 20 games have pretty well been as shit as that though. If the results for that period were extrapolated for the season, we'd finish on 38 points and a -13 goal difference.

Seasons are measured over 38 games though. The reason sides are mid table is because they’re inconsistent as they don’t have the squad depth of those at the top. If players at Chelsea or Man City, for instance, are injured or off form they can replace them with similar quality. We’re not in the same game and it will take work over a number of transfer windows to get to that level.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: N'ZMAV on May 16, 2021, 05:00:33 PM
			

			

				to be honest, there's only been 4 consistent teams this season.
Man City; once they got their act together.
Sheff Utd, Fulham & WBA - for very different reasons.

The rest have been vey up and down. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on May 16, 2021, 05:03:22 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Chris Smith on May 16, 2021, 04:54:55 PM

Seasons are measured over 38 games though. The reason sides are mid table is because they’re inconsistent as they don’t have the squad depth of those at the top. If players at Chelsea or Man City, for instance, are injured or off form they can replace them with similar quality. We’re not in the same game and it will take work over a number of transfer windows to get to that level.

I don't think it's unreasonable to look at the form for well over half a season and be worried by it. Smith himself has said it's important to go into next season with some sort of momentum, and it's just not happening.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: PhilVill on May 16, 2021, 05:10:54 PM
			

			

				He’ll be here next season but I reckon he’ll be told that the form of the second half of this season will be unacceptable if repeated next year and that there will be consequences if it happens. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: villa `cross the mersey on May 16, 2021, 05:14:16 PM
			

			

				Not the manager to take us to the next level .....recent form has been abysmal and embarrassing at times - he may be a nice guy and Villa through and through but if this form carries on into next
Season we will be one of the relegation candidates - decent Championship manager but out of his depth in the top flight
If the owners are serious in their intentions of taking this club to a higher level they will need to be ruthless .....does Smith deserve to get time early next season to prove his worth ? 
He was once again out thought by an opposition manager - this time by one entering retirement :(
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ads on May 16, 2021, 05:15:57 PM
			

			

				Everybody would agree we cannot keep being so streaky and that consistency is a must. Another 4 good quality players on top of the back 5, Grealish and Watkins, who are all consistently excellent would help.

Then the players like Luiz, McGinn, El Ghazi, Traore who blow hot and cold, but have quality, are able to be recycled in and out more. We've had to persevere with players out of lack of choice.

Add 4 new players, a Sanson with a pre-season and consistency should be more achievable.

The likes of Marvellous, Elmo, Davis, Trez, they're just not up to where we want to go.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Taylor on May 16, 2021, 05:21:39 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on May 16, 2021, 05:14:16 PM
Not the manager to take us to the next level .....recent form has been abysmal and embarrassing at times - he may be a nice guy and Villa through and through but if this form carries on into next
Season we will be one of the relegation candidates - decent Championship manager but out of his depth in the top flight
If the owners are serious in their intentions of taking this club to a higher level they will need to be ruthless .....does Smith deserve to get time early next season to prove his worth ? 
He was once again out thought by an opposition manager - this time by one entering retirement :(
He was only a few months further away from retirement when we dicked them 3 nil on Boxing Day, with 10 men. We also beat the tactically brilliant Bielsa at Elland road. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Mister E on May 16, 2021, 05:21:58 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on May 16, 2021, 05:14:16 PM
Not the manager to take us to the next level .....recent form has been abysmal and embarrassing at times - he may be a nice guy and Villa through and through but if this form carries on into next
Season we will be one of the relegation candidates - decent Championship manager but out of his depth in the top flight
If the owners are serious in their intentions of taking this club to a higher level they will need to be ruthless .....does Smith deserve to get time early next season to prove his worth ? 
He was once again out thought by an opposition manager - this time by one entering retirement :( 
Bit ageist, that.
I thought experience brought wisdom?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: olaftab on May 16, 2021, 05:25:20 PM
			

			

				The turn around stats are worrying. I think we must be the worst team in the League for not winning or losing the game after taking the lead and I don't think we have won a game after conceding  this season. This is against Smith's ability as other coaches are able to work him out and he has not been able to do anything about it. The two most worrying results have been Burnley and Palace today. Being schooled by good old fashioned coaches like Dyche and Hodgson  does not bode well. Particularly as these two teams have inferior players than us. I do not feel confident at all for next season with the current set up. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on May 16, 2021, 05:25:47 PM
			

			

				Hard to see us not going through another one win in 10 run at some point next season.

I was going to say interested what the owners would do if we hit that in November/December period (which aside from this season is when we usually go to pot most seasons) but then again to finish 8th you don't need that amazing form.

Spurs could still feasibly finish 5th and they won 3 league games in 13 between middle of December and start of March so pretty much what we've done since jack got injured at Brighton.

Liverpool could make top 4 still and they also had 2 wins in 12.

I think the key more is to try to end next season more strongly. Always seems we peak around January/Feb in our best prem seasons in last 20 years and we stumble to finish line so we must be smart in spending the 100m this summer and also rotate more 1st half of next season e.g. McGinn can actually be subbed in some games.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ian. on May 16, 2021, 05:27:27 PM
			

			

				I think he’s done very well with our team, we’ve played some great football along the way and we are in a position in the league based on our ability at the moment. Adding real quality has to be our next step and our aim for next season is going to be higher. 

To rule him out or say he is not a manager to take us higher is impossible to say. A squad of players on the same level as Jack, Martinez and Konsa is when to judge him. So far, since he’s been here he’s achieved everything that’s been asked of him.

Obviously these streaky patches are worrying but I’m still thinking that’s down to the squad and not having the players to really change things as what’s on the bench is joy better than what’s on the pitch.



			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Mister E on May 16, 2021, 05:28:09 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: SoccerHQ on May 16, 2021, 05:25:47 PM
Hard to see us not going through another one win in 10 run at some point next season.
I was going to say interested what the owners would do if we hit that in November/December period (which aside from this season is when we usually go to pot most seasons) but then again to finish 8th you don't need that amazing form.
Spurs could still feasibly finish 5th and they won 3 league games in 13 between middle of December and start of March so pretty much what we've done since jack got injured at Brighton.
Liverpool could make top 4 still and they also had 2 wins in 12.
I think the key more is to try to end next season more strongly. Always seems we peak around January/Feb in our best prem seasons in last 20 years and we stumble to finish line so we must be smart in spending the 100m this summer and also rotate more 1st half of next season e.g. McGinn can actually be subbed in some games.
Agreed.
If we'd had this run before Christmas, Smith would certainly have been bulleted. Who might we have ended up with?!
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: N'ZMAV on May 16, 2021, 05:32:56 PM
			

			

				Smith has done well, especially when you consider that we're trying to get top 8 in the league, with, let's be honest, only a handful of players (if that) who are actually consistently that standard. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: villa `cross the mersey on May 16, 2021, 05:49:19 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Mister E on May 16, 2021, 05:21:58 PM
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on May 16, 2021, 05:14:16 PM
Not the manager to take us to the next level .....recent form has been abysmal and embarrassing at times - he may be a nice guy and Villa through and through but if this form carries on into next
Season we will be one of the relegation candidates - decent Championship manager but out of his depth in the top flight
If the owners are serious in their intentions of taking this club to a higher level they will need to be ruthless .....does Smith deserve to get time early next season to prove his worth ? 
He was once again out thought by an opposition manager - this time by one entering retirement :( 
Bit ageist, that.
I thought experience brought wisdom?
No ageism intended - ME -just a statement of fact 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: London Villan on May 16, 2021, 05:53:35 PM
			

			

				I'd hate to be in the position of the club's management today. Strong arguments could be made to part ways with Smith as much as give him an extended contract.

This close season will define the next few years. Jack staying or going, manager being able to move us forward, two or three big signings that have to work. 

If we mess this up then we will take some massive steps back and with what has been spent I don't think the hierarchy will accept failure.

The one big difference I guess is the structure behind the scene. We aren't built around the manager, he is important but not the be all and end-all. Dean leaving won't chop the head of the club off like it did when MoN left and we are in a relative position of strength to attract a replacement.

Such a tough decision though.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ketzster on May 16, 2021, 06:07:14 PM
			

			

				The players were good enough when things were going well earlier in the season. It can’t be the manager when things are going well and the players when things are going badly. It makes the job of a player much, much harder if the manager doesn’t help them by making any changes during a game
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: pauliewalnuts on May 16, 2021, 06:20:40 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Ketzster on May 16, 2021, 06:07:14 PM
The players were good enough when things were going well earlier in the season. It can’t be the manager when things are going well and the players when things are going badly. It makes the job of a player much, much harder if the manager doesn’t help them by making any changes during a game

Have to agree with that.

The cat was out of the bag with the form in the first third of the season. The fact we have had over half a season of relegation form is massively worrying. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Smithy on May 16, 2021, 06:44:06 PM
			

			

				I really don't think there is any "decision" to be made this summer.  This is the end of his 3rd season with us, and we have improved in each and every one of those seasons. Yes, there have been stretches of incredible form, and stretches of very poor form - but season-on-season, we're improving.

Now, that said, we are now very much at the point where the law of diminishing returns REALLY kicks in. It is a LOT easier to go from 17th to 11th, than it is to go from 11th into the top 6.  The pressure will really be on next season, particularly if we've invested a reasonable amount again this summer, and if we look like still being a midtable side by Xmas (and there aren't some obvious reasons that are beyond Dean's control), then I think his time might be up.  

But I'm very hopeful that with another couple of additions we will be genuine European candidates next season.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: steamer on May 16, 2021, 06:46:01 PM
			

			

				Someone said earlier, there is a structure behind Dean, Not like when Oneil was in charge
I think we all want Dean to succeed , investment in midfield and creative forwards is there for all to be seen
If we start next season like we are ending this one, I am sure the owners will have a plan B
\Look at Chelsea, nobody could have been more popular than frank yet he got the chop
I am sure like any professional organisation there is a succession plan in place
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Villan82 on May 16, 2021, 06:53:34 PM
			

			

				Earlier this season we were all saying how disappointed we would be to finish behind a really poor Arsenal team. Well, we really have just sunk - 6 points behind them with two to play. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on May 16, 2021, 07:34:44 PM
			

			

				I don’t see how a club with aspirations of European football can have a manager that loses so many points from winning positions.smith obviously has talent in preparing and coaching the team but useless at game management.
He has no idea how to close a game out
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ads on May 16, 2021, 07:38:47 PM
			

			

				Pre-Covid we lost 0 points from winning positions and post Covid we've lost 19.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on May 16, 2021, 07:40:43 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Ads on May 16, 2021, 07:38:47 PM
Pre-Covid we lost 0 points from winning positions and post Covid we've lost 19.
so it’s still down to Covid?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: tomd2103 on May 16, 2021, 07:49:01 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Smithy on May 16, 2021, 06:44:06 PM
I really don't think there is any "decision" to be made this summer.  This is the end of his 3rd season with us, and we have improved in each and every one of those seasons. Yes, there have been stretches of incredible form, and stretches of very poor form - but season-on-season, we're improving.

Now, that said, we are now very much at the point where the law of diminishing returns REALLY kicks in. It is a LOT easier to go from 17th to 11th, than it is to go from 11th into the top 6.  The pressure will really be on next season, particularly if we've invested a reasonable amount again this summer, and if we look like still being a midtable side by Xmas (and there aren't some obvious reasons that are beyond Dean's control), then I think his time might be up.  

But I'm very hopeful that with another couple of additions we will be genuine European candidates next season.

Agree.  I think we somewhat overachieved in the first half of the season and underachieved in the second half.  What I do think has to be considered when judging Dean Smith’s performance this season is that we still aren’t really there squad wise and Grealish’s injury coupled with Barkley’s non-performance have hit us pretty hard.  

All that said, I think he has achieved what was expected this season and as a result I think questions about his future are a little unreasonable really.  He needs the chance to work with a strengthened squad next season, but I think the expectations will be that we will be firmly ensconced in the top ten and competitive in cup competitions.  If he can’t manage that with the additional resources that are expected to arrive this summer, then I think questions could be asked at that point.  
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ads on May 16, 2021, 08:00:18 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: ChicagoLion on May 16, 2021, 07:40:43 PM
Quote from: Ads on May 16, 2021, 07:38:47 PM
Pre-Covid we lost 0 points from winning positions and post Covid we've lost 19.
so it’s still down to Covid?

Think that statistic demonstrates it was a significant event in the season. There's been other factors too, there is no single cause for the up and down nature of the season. But 9 of our players contracting a disease isn't too handy.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on May 16, 2021, 08:15:52 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Ads on May 16, 2021, 08:00:18 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on May 16, 2021, 07:40:43 PM
Quote from: Ads on May 16, 2021, 07:38:47 PM
Pre-Covid we lost 0 points from winning positions and post Covid we've lost 19.
so it’s still down to Covid?

Think that statistic demonstrates it was a significant event in the season. There's been other factors too, there is no single cause for the up and down nature of the season. But 9 of our players contracting a disease isn't too handy.
I don’t think any one can deny it had an impact.
I just don’t think it can continue to excuse such poor returns from winning positions over 2 seasons.
He never seems to make a proactive decision, at best it’s reactive at worst passive and indecisive.


			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john2710 on May 16, 2021, 08:21:02 PM
			

			

				The player's we recruit over the summer won't be down to Smith, so it's not a case of trusting him with £100m.

His job is to get a tune out of the player's at his disposal & over almost 3 seasons he's just about done that. I think the owners will give him the chance. 

Next season practically all of the sub-standard players will be moved on. But if we don't deliver Smith will be gone.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: RamboandBruno on May 16, 2021, 08:43:03 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: ChicagoLion on May 16, 2021, 08:15:52 PM
Quote from: Ads on May 16, 2021, 08:00:18 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on May 16, 2021, 07:40:43 PM
Quote from: Ads on May 16, 2021, 07:38:47 PM
Pre-Covid we lost 0 points from winning positions and post Covid we've lost 19.
so it’s still down to Covid?

Think that statistic demonstrates it was a significant event in the season. There's been other factors too, there is no single cause for the up and down nature of the season. But 9 of our players contracting a disease isn't too handy.
I don’t think any one can deny it had an impact.
I just don’t think it can continue to excuse such poor returns from winning positions over 2 seasons.
He never seems to make a proactive decision, at best it’s reactive at worst passive and indecisive.

He never seems to make a proactive decision apart from the times he has and we’ve won games, or again are the numerous games we’ve won only down to the players and not Smith, in which case he can’t win with you and the same posters on here who wanted him gone last season.

There is nothing surer than Smith will get the sack at some point, it’s the nature of the beast of the last 40 odd years, unless your Alex Ferguson, or we really progress quickly and he moves on from us. However, despite the disappointments of 2021, he has done a good job and progressed us. He’s suffered this year from losing his biggest big game player for 1/3 of the season and one of his others being a gamble that has not paid off. Let’s see who we get in, who we let go and how we do next season. Talk of getting rid now, strikes me as the kind of over privileged stuff, ‘we’re Aston Villa don’t you know who we are’. we’ve heard this kind of stuff from some Wolves fans moaning about Nuno. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on May 16, 2021, 08:50:43 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: RamboandBruno on May 16, 2021, 08:43:03 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on May 16, 2021, 08:15:52 PM
Quote from: Ads on May 16, 2021, 08:00:18 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on May 16, 2021, 07:40:43 PM
Quote from: Ads on May 16, 2021, 07:38:47 PM
Pre-Covid we lost 0 points from winning positions and post Covid we've lost 19.
so it’s still down to Covid?

Think that statistic demonstrates it was a significant event in the season. There's been other factors too, there is no single cause for the up and down nature of the season. But 9 of our players contracting a disease isn't too handy.
I don’t think any one can deny it had an impact.
I just don’t think it can continue to excuse such poor returns from winning positions over 2 seasons.
He never seems to make a proactive decision, at best it’s reactive at worst passive and indecisive.

He never seems to make a proactive decision apart from the times he has and we’ve won games, or again are the numerous games we’ve won only down to the players and not Smith, in which case he can’t win with you and the same posters on here who wanted him gone last season.

There is nothing surer than Smith will get the sack at some point, it’s the nature of the beast of the last 40 odd years, unless your Alex Ferguson, or we really progress quickly and he moves on from us. However, despite the disappointments of 2021, he has done a good job and progressed us. He’s suffered this year from losing his biggest big game player for 1/3 of the season and one of his others being a gamble that has paid off. Let’s see who we get in, who we let go and how we do next season. Talk of getting rid now, strikes me as the kind of over privileged stuff, ‘we’re Aston Villa don’t you know who we are’. we’ve heard this kind of stuff from some Wolves fans moaning about Nuno.
do You need  to see the stats regarding losing points from winning positions?


			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: mr underhill on May 16, 2021, 08:59:07 PM
			

			

				Dean's done well but that shouldn't stop the owners from trying to recruit someone better.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: RamboandBruno on May 16, 2021, 09:05:33 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: ChicagoLion on May 16, 2021, 08:50:43 PM
Quote from: RamboandBruno on May 16, 2021, 08:43:03 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on May 16, 2021, 08:15:52 PM
Quote from: Ads on May 16, 2021, 08:00:18 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on May 16, 2021, 07:40:43 PM
Quote from: Ads on May 16, 2021, 07:38:47 PM
Pre-Covid we lost 0 points from winning positions and post Covid we've lost 19.
so it’s still down to Covid?

Think that statistic demonstrates it was a significant event in the season. There's been other factors too, there is no single cause for the up and down nature of the season. But 9 of our players contracting a disease isn't too handy.
I don’t think any one can deny it had an impact.
I just don’t think it can continue to excuse such poor returns from winning positions over 2 seasons.
He never seems to make a proactive decision, at best it’s reactive at worst passive and indecisive.

He never seems to make a proactive decision apart from the times he has and we’ve won games, or again are the numerous games we’ve won only down to the players and not Smith, in which case he can’t win with you and the same posters on here who wanted him gone last season.

There is nothing surer than Smith will get the sack at some point, it’s the nature of the beast of the last 40 odd years, unless your Alex Ferguson, or we really progress quickly and he moves on from us. However, despite the disappointments of 2021, he has done a good job and progressed us. He’s suffered this year from losing his biggest big game player for 1/3 of the season and one of his others being a gamble that has paid off. Let’s see who we get in, who we let go and how we do next season. Talk of getting rid now, strikes me as the kind of over privileged stuff, ‘we’re Aston Villa don’t you know who we are’. we’ve heard this kind of stuff from some Wolves fans moaning about Nuno.
do You need  to see the stats regarding losing points from winning positions?

Nope I’m capable of reading and absorbing those stats myself, just as I’m capable of reading the stats relating to the games we’ve won. You can use the stats in whichever way you want and you’ve wanted Smith out since last year apart from a brief interlude of non criticism pre new year. I’m sure you’ll get your wish at some point and you’ll be pleased enough.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on May 16, 2021, 09:26:06 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: RamboandBruno on May 16, 2021, 09:05:33 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on May 16, 2021, 08:50:43 PM
Quote from: RamboandBruno on May 16, 2021, 08:43:03 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on May 16, 2021, 08:15:52 PM
Quote from: Ads on May 16, 2021, 08:00:18 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on May 16, 2021, 07:40:43 PM
Quote from: Ads on May 16, 2021, 07:38:47 PM
Pre-Covid we lost 0 points from winning positions and post Covid we've lost 19.
so it’s still down to Covid?

Think that statistic demonstrates it was a significant event in the season. There's been other factors too, there is no single cause for the up and down nature of the season. But 9 of our players contracting a disease isn't too handy.
I don’t think any one can deny it had an impact.
I just don’t think it can continue to excuse such poor returns from winning positions over 2 seasons.
He never seems to make a proactive decision, at best it’s reactive at worst passive and indecisive.

He never seems to make a proactive decision apart from the times he has and we’ve won games, or again are the numerous games we’ve won only down to the players and not Smith, in which case he can’t win with you and the same posters on here who wanted him gone last season.

There is nothing surer than Smith will get the sack at some point, it’s the nature of the beast of the last 40 odd years, unless your Alex Ferguson, or we really progress quickly and he moves on from us. However, despite the disappointments of 2021, he has done a good job and progressed us. He’s suffered this year from losing his biggest big game player for 1/3 of the season and one of his others being a gamble that has paid off. Let’s see who we get in, who we let go and how we do next season. Talk of getting rid now, strikes me as the kind of over privileged stuff, ‘we’re Aston Villa don’t you know who we are’. we’ve heard this kind of stuff from some Wolves fans moaning about Nuno.
do You need  to see the stats regarding losing points from winning positions?

Nope I’m capable of reading and absorbing those stats myself, just as I’m capable of reading the stats relating to the games we’ve won. You can use the stats in whichever way you want and you’ve wanted Smith out since last year apart from a brief interlude of non criticism pre new year. I’m sure you’ll get your wish at some point and you’ll be pleased enough.
you obviously have a very selective memory.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: nigel on May 16, 2021, 09:29:20 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Villan82 on May 16, 2021, 06:53:34 PM
Earlier this season we were all saying how disappointed we would be to finish behind a really poor Arsenal team. Well, we really have just sunk - 6 points behind them with two to play.

Whereas we started the season like an express train then ran out of steam, Arsenal started the season poorly and have gradually got better, Liverpool also started poorly, but quickly got up to speed.

Yes, it probably is a poor Arsenal side, considering how they’ve been in the past, but they’re still a very good team

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: tomd2103 on May 16, 2021, 09:51:23 PM
			

			

				I can see where the criticism is coming from and the recent form has been a bit of a concern, but I do think a lot of that has been down to having to rely on players who aren't quite up to it more than we would have liked to.  

The only way I would even consider changing managers in the summer would be if there was a really big name, top class manager lined up as a replacement.  
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on May 16, 2021, 10:27:02 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Monty on May 16, 2021, 02:21:39 PM
Not that I am advocating for replacing Smith, but in a world where Everton can hire Carlo Ancelotti I don't think we need be so humble about what our choice of manager might be. No more Curbishleys and Holloways in the rumour pages if the time does come.

And he just lost to one of the worst teams to ever grace the Division. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on May 16, 2021, 10:28:01 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: ez on May 16, 2021, 02:27:08 PM
We needed Traore and Sanson to be good. Sadly they are no better than what we already had.

I agree, Sanson did fuck all today. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on May 16, 2021, 10:33:03 PM
			

			

				Currently only Tuchel and Guardiola less likely to be next Premier League manager to leave. Smith 80/1.

Rightly so in my view. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Brend'Watkins on May 16, 2021, 10:56:31 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Drummond on May 16, 2021, 10:28:01 PM
Quote from: ez on May 16, 2021, 02:27:08 PM
We needed Traore and Sanson to be good. Sadly they are no better than what we already had.

I agree, Sanson did fuck all today. 

Normally players improve the longer they’ve been out of the side. Not Sanson, he’s got progressively worse. The way he hasn’t performed today and in our last few games is diabolical.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Hockley Lion on May 16, 2021, 11:12:48 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Toronto Villa on May 16, 2021, 02:00:51 PM
Quote from: OzVilla on May 16, 2021, 01:56:07 PM
That 2nd half performance should make Smith very nervous. That was well into diabolical territory. 

He will no doubt blame the players

He'd be in a long queue wouldn't he?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Hockley Lion on May 16, 2021, 11:15:50 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Rudy65 on May 16, 2021, 02:03:12 PM
Quote from: Monty on May 16, 2021, 01:58:56 PM
Maybe he needs another coach, or someone on the staff needs replacing, like how Ferguson would hire Queiroz and the like when he felt he was going stale. Someone to help tactical management. I mean, if it's good enough for Ferguson then it's good enough for Smith.

He has got more than enough coaches. Needs a look in the mirror.  Form guide over the last 15 has us fourth bottom. Relegation form

4th bottom isn't relegation form though is it.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Hockley Lion on May 16, 2021, 11:41:04 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Toronto Villa on May 16, 2021, 02:10:57 PM
Quote from: Ads on May 16, 2021, 02:05:23 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on May 16, 2021, 02:03:16 PM
Quote from: Monty on May 16, 2021, 01:58:56 PM
Maybe he needs another coach, or someone on the staff needs replacing, like how Ferguson would hire Queiroz and the like when he felt he was going stale. Someone to help tactical management. I mean, if it's good enough for Ferguson then it's good enough for Smith.

Ferguson for all his tea cup tossing bravado was also light years ahead of others in terms of what it took to run a massive club. That is coaching, analytics, squad management and the psychological warfare against all others in getting that edge. I don’t think Dean Smith is broad enough mentally to grasp all of that. 

Bit of a daft comparison isn't it, Smith against the greatest ever. Its like thrashing the car sat in your drive because its not a Jaguar E Type.

Not really. I was responding to the point that Ferguson had other tactical coaches to advise him. Dean Smith’s tactical team is Richard O’Kelly, Craig Shakespeare, John Terry and the person he seems to listen to the most during a game, the GK coach Neil Cutler. Dean Smith has proven he either doesn’t have the required in game management skills poor the advise he does get isn’t very good. He was absolutely out coached by Hodgson today who changed something to turn Palace into world beaters n the second half.

And Roy Hodgson has decades of experience at the top level all over Europe while Dean is into his second Prem League season. Apparently most of his players are shit too judging from the comments on here so why such high expectations?

20/20 hindsight is a wonderful gift. A lot of people in this thread seem to possess it. Play the youngsters, we've got nothing to loose, oh, but wasn't Ramsey shit today he should have been pulled off earlier.

Really, what do some of you expect? Champions League in 2 seasons? To get into the Champions League you have to displace some very good teams and it's not going to happen overnight.

Mid table. Job done!
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: tomd2103 on May 17, 2021, 02:19:56 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Hockley Lion on May 16, 2021, 11:41:04 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on May 16, 2021, 02:10:57 PM
Quote from: Ads on May 16, 2021, 02:05:23 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on May 16, 2021, 02:03:16 PM
Quote from: Monty on May 16, 2021, 01:58:56 PM
Maybe he needs another coach, or someone on the staff needs replacing, like how Ferguson would hire Queiroz and the like when he felt he was going stale. Someone to help tactical management. I mean, if it's good enough for Ferguson then it's good enough for Smith.

Ferguson for all his tea cup tossing bravado was also light years ahead of others in terms of what it took to run a massive club. That is coaching, analytics, squad management and the psychological warfare against all others in getting that edge. I don’t think Dean Smith is broad enough mentally to grasp all of that. 

Bit of a daft comparison isn't it, Smith against the greatest ever. Its like thrashing the car sat in your drive because its not a Jaguar E Type.

Not really. I was responding to the point that Ferguson had other tactical coaches to advise him. Dean Smith’s tactical team is Richard O’Kelly, Craig Shakespeare, John Terry and the person he seems to listen to the most during a game, the GK coach Neil Cutler. Dean Smith has proven he either doesn’t have the required in game management skills poor the advise he does get isn’t very good. He was absolutely out coached by Hodgson today who changed something to turn Palace into world beaters n the second half.

And Roy Hodgson has decades of experience at the top level all over Europe while Dean is into his second Prem League season. Apparently most of his players are shit too judging from the comments on here so why such high expectations?

20/20 hindsight is a wonderful gift. A lot of people in this thread seem to possess it. Play the youngsters, we've got nothing to loose, oh, but wasn't Ramsey shit today he should have been pulled off earlier.

Really, what do some of you expect? Champions League in 2 seasons? To get into the Champions League you have to displace some very good teams and it's not going to happen overnight.

Mid table. Job done!

Given what happened last season, I think most of us would have gladly taken where we are now if offered at the start of the season, so I agree that it is probably a case of job done.  I guess there is a sense of disappointment though that we could not capitalise on the start we made and the opportunity we had this season.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on May 17, 2021, 07:14:50 AM
			

			

				This season has seen a bit of a topsy-turvy one for many reasons and for a lot of clubs. However, the usual suspects, with the better squad depth and experience, have done what matters when it matters and have risen through the league.

We had a great run and sustaining it would have been incredible. Losing one of the best players around and possibly our best ever, for as long as we did hasn't helped. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on May 17, 2021, 07:22:32 AM
			

			

				 sorry quote fail, this was Toronto Villa.
Dean Smith has proven he either doesn’t have the required in game management skills or the advise he does get isn’t very good.
[/quote]
This is the point that seems to be ignored.
Time and time again he passively watches all the good work he has done coaching and setting up the team get taken apart.

It’s as if he needs to hand the team over at kick off to someone who has a clue about how to manage the game.

It is argued that 4 3 3 is supposedly to provide a coach with the most flexibility, yet I see very little evidence of this.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: mr underhill on May 17, 2021, 07:28:30 AM
			

			

				Dean's as intractable as MON was. Time for a change - and there is nothing wrong about wanting better.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: OzVilla on May 17, 2021, 07:30:03 AM
			

			

				Smith is safe for now and deservedly so but my God if he didn't rip that side a new one after that spineless second half then he never will. 

How we didn't change it sooner though, that's all on Smith and his team. The whole thing was just so passive and weak.  
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: PhilVill on May 17, 2021, 07:32:09 AM
			

			

				We can discuss Dean S until the cows come home but the bottom line is what the owners will expect next season, especially if they spend a few bob again. Another Deano slump will not cut it so if it happens next season he’ll be gone
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: sid1964 on May 17, 2021, 07:32:33 AM
			

			

				The owners stated after winning at Wembley 2 seasons ago that they would do whatever it takes to make us a team that will challenge for trophies

Dean will keep is job for now but he will need to start next season well, otherwise he could be out of the door by end of October. 

Ancellotti is supposedly on £14 million a year for me he is massively underperforming - manager of the year should be Bielsa, but it will be Pep
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on May 17, 2021, 07:38:46 AM
			

			

				If we get a couple of pastings from Spurs and Chelsea, it'll be nearly ⅔ of the season in relegation battle form, which even allowing for the loss of Jack, isn't even remotely acceptable. It's only a couple of outlandish results that will have made the season look respectable.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ketzster on May 17, 2021, 07:44:47 AM
			

			

				Why would we only get rid of Smith if an elite level manager was available? There’s a huge gap between Dean Smith and elite level so surely to get to elite you have to move up the ladder graudally

Nobody knows what the targets were but I doubt when Martinez signed and was talking about Europe, or when Grealish signed his contract, that the target was 11th or 12th and a second half of the season like this 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ads on May 17, 2021, 07:50:53 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on May 17, 2021, 07:38:46 AM
It's only a couple of outlandish results that will have made the season look respectable.

Well, that and getting as many points as we have in 10 years.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ian. on May 17, 2021, 07:56:30 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Ads on May 17, 2021, 07:50:53 AM
Quote from: Risso on May 17, 2021, 07:38:46 AM
It's only a couple of outlandish results that will have made the season look respectable.

Well, that and getting as many points as we have in 10 years.

Some of our football has been a joy to watch, albeit  it may have been only one half per game in some cases. As Ads said above, it’s more than we have enjoyed for a long time, I see it as work in progress.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: mr underhill on May 17, 2021, 08:53:05 AM
			

			

				and the next step is to better what we currently have.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: The Edge on May 17, 2021, 08:56:18 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Ian. on May 17, 2021, 07:56:30 AM
Quote from: Ads on May 17, 2021, 07:50:53 AM
Quote from: Risso on May 17, 2021, 07:38:46 AM
It's only a couple of outlandish results that will have made the season look respectable.

Well, that and getting as many points as we have in 10 years.

Some of our football has been a joy to watch, albeit  it may have been only one half per game in some cases. As Ads said above, it’s more than we have enjoyed for a long time, I see it as work in progress.
It's absolutely a work in progress and I would like to see Smith given more time to get us there. At times yesterday and in plenty of games this season we have looked irrepressible even against the very best. They have to find ways of putting all that good work to good use. We have to find a way of pushing home our advantage. I said after the game yesterday our self belief is wafer thin. It's as if we go a goal up and get scared like we've just provoked a bully and we seem to panic then. Traore was the perfect example after we scored he passed the ball to one of their players twice in succession while under no pressure. This has got to stop. They must work it out. Even though we conceded far too much ground and possession yesterday we lost to two massive flukes. Elmo should have been braver and not turned his back but even so Zaha's shot could of finished anywhere but the footballing gods have not been kind to us lately. The winner was just as flukey and hit the net off the lads shoulder. We can count ourselves unlucky and moan about bad luck or we can control our own destiny by finishing the job when we have teams on the ropes. That's the task in hand now. Improve our squad with better players, bring through some of the talented young players and above all else instill a winning mentality that runs all the way from the boot room to the boardroom. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: DB on May 17, 2021, 09:02:46 AM
			

			

				What Smith has done since coming in has been remarkable, but in terms of where we are now you can look at it: We are moving fwd, improving each season he has been in charge, he deserves to go on. Or, the 2nd part of the season has been poor, Smith has peaked, our form is heading down and he cannot take us to the next level, time to move on.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: andyh on May 17, 2021, 09:10:39 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: DB on May 17, 2021, 09:02:46 AM
What Smith has done since coming in has been remarkable, but in terms of where we are now you can look at it: We are moving fwd, improving each season he has been in charge, he deserves to go on. Or, the 2nd part of the season has been poor, Smith has peaked, our form is heading down and he cannot take us to the next level, time to move on.
I think you are right.
There ‘could’ be a stick or twist decision for the owners, but only IF they want to make one.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Mister E on May 17, 2021, 09:21:47 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: andyh on May 17, 2021, 09:10:39 AM
Quote from: DB on May 17, 2021, 09:02:46 AM
What Smith has done since coming in has been remarkable, but in terms of where we are now you can look at it: We are moving fwd, improving each season he has been in charge, he deserves to go on. Or, the 2nd part of the season has been poor, Smith has peaked, our form is heading down and he cannot take us to the next level, time to move on.
I think you are right.
There ‘could’ be a stick or twist decision for the owners, but only IF they want to make one.
It would only be 'twist' if there were a manager available whom the owners believe is a step-change choice.
I've no idea who that manager might be; certainly cannot think of many credible choices right now.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on May 17, 2021, 09:42:22 AM
			

			

				In my view, this is a long term project. That means we may have a bumpy ride, but the owners want sustainability. Buying younger players who get better and increase in value is the way to go and I think we're seeing that. Not many players are getting worse.

Young players aren't as consistent, aren't as confident. You could argue we need a couple of older heads to steady things but then again why bother? We're going to get stronger and better and in my view Smith can grow with us. 

There's some patchy stuff but we're also seeing some of the best football we've seen in years. The first half hour yesterday was brilliant, and arguably with more composure we'd have been 2 or 3 up and game over. Then they worked us out and grafted and we didn't have the guile needed. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: themossman on May 17, 2021, 10:20:38 AM
			

			

				I agree about the guile and the up and down nature of the football. To my mind these are very clear reasons to question the tactics.

I don’t think we got our good results based on tactics, particularly. We played the way we always do, but great player performances (including what turned out to be a true one-off from Barkley) made us unplayable.

On the either hand, our losses often look like tactical failures, like smith being outmanoeuvred.

I’m not saying he doesn’t have a role in our successes, he obviously does. But I definitely don’t buy it that he is doing the best he can with an inadequate squad.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on May 17, 2021, 10:35:01 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: themossman on May 17, 2021, 10:20:38 AM
I agree about the guile and the up and down nature of the football. To my mind these are very clear reasons to question the tactics.

I don’t think we got our good results based on tactics, particularly. We played the way we always do, but great player performances (including what turned out to be a true one-off from Barkley) made us unplayable.

On the either hand, our losses often look like tactical failures, like smith being outmanoeuvred.

I’m not saying he doesn’t have a role in our successes, he obviously does. But I definitely don’t buy it that he is doing the best he can with an inadequate squad.

So the players play well in a system the manager implemented but it's nothing to do with him. The players play badly in the same system and it's his fault.

There are times when we may have tried to shore things up, there are times when experienced heads would have just slowed things down, maintained possession and taken the sting out of the game. Many of our players, Traore, AEG, Luiz just don't have that thought process, or they tire mentally and lose the ball. We need to calm things down a little I think and just pass the ball about.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: nick harper on May 17, 2021, 10:51:36 AM
			

			

				While we are not too bad in possession across the back four, we are not great. Palace pushing up on us in the second half meant Martinez or the defenders kicking it long and losing possession, a pattern we’ve seen before. Coupled with the midfield wilting, we end up losing shape and teams like Palace have 22 attempts on goal

All the high pressing teams have success against us. It’s no coincidence our best performance of recent weeks was when Everton gave us the freedom of Goodison.

We are not good enough to counter this at the moment or composed enough to keep possession better, but absolutely agree Smith is not doing enough to address the problems, within games in particular.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: LeeB on May 17, 2021, 11:05:23 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: nick harper on May 17, 2021, 10:51:36 AM
While we are not too bad in possession across the back four, we are not great. Palace pushing up on us in the second half meant Martinez or the defenders kicking it long and losing possession, a pattern we’ve seen before. Coupled with the midfield wilting, we end up losing shape and teams like Palace have 22 attempts on goal

All the high pressing teams have success against us. It’s no coincidence our best performance of recent weeks was when Everton gave us the freedom of Goodison.

We are not good enough to counter this at the moment or composed enough to keep possession better, but absolutely agree Smith is not doing enough to address the problems, within games in particular.

It's true, too many lack the composure under pressure. I know it's a while back but that play off semi-final at the Yawnthorns was the worst, when we kept kicking out from the goalie and gifting them the ball back, I think I aged 5 years that night.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: themossman on May 17, 2021, 11:07:45 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Drummond on May 17, 2021, 10:35:01 AM
So the players play well in a system the manager implemented but it's nothing to do with him. The players play badly in the same system and it's his fault.

I said the opposite of this though. Smith is obviously largely responsible for our successes under his management. But he also needs to take his share of blame for the failures. I really don't think having good enough players is a valid excuse.

He is, and has aways been, good at setting us up to play in a particular way. When it's effective it's a wonderful thing. When it isn't and needs changing, that's when a good manager earns their corn, and he basically doesn't.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: RamboandBruno on May 17, 2021, 11:14:39 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Ketzster on May 17, 2021, 07:44:47 AM
Why would we only get rid of Smith if an elite level manager was available? There’s a huge gap between Dean Smith and elite level so surely to get to elite you have to move up the ladder graudally

Nobody knows what the targets were but I doubt when Martinez signed and was talking about Europe, or when Grealish signed his contract, that the target was 11th or 12th and a second half of the season like this

Grealish was interviewed earlier in the season and said after he is meeting with Smith, Purslow and owners, the ambition this year was top 12-top 10
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on May 17, 2021, 11:37:37 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: RamboandBruno on May 17, 2021, 11:14:39 AM
Quote from: Ketzster on May 17, 2021, 07:44:47 AM
Why would we only get rid of Smith if an elite level manager was available? There’s a huge gap between Dean Smith and elite level so surely to get to elite you have to move up the ladder graudally

Nobody knows what the targets were but I doubt when Martinez signed and was talking about Europe, or when Grealish signed his contract, that the target was 11th or 12th and a second half of the season like this

Grealish was interviewed earlier in the season and said after he is meeting with Smith, Purslow and owners, the ambition this year was top 12-top 10.



Bang on then!
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ketzster on May 17, 2021, 11:43:54 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: RamboandBruno on May 17, 2021, 11:14:39 AM
Quote from: Ketzster on May 17, 2021, 07:44:47 AM
Why would we only get rid of Smith if an elite level manager was available? There’s a huge gap between Dean Smith and elite level so surely to get to elite you have to move up the ladder graudally

Nobody knows what the targets were but I doubt when Martinez signed and was talking about Europe, or when Grealish signed his contract, that the target was 11th or 12th and a second half of the season like this

Grealish was interviewed earlier in the season and said after he is meeting with Smith, Purslow and owners, the ambition this year was top 12-top 10

Where did Grealish say top 12 was a target? There were numerous interviews where he said the club had huge ambitions
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on May 17, 2021, 11:59:35 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Ketzster on May 17, 2021, 11:43:54 AM
Quote from: RamboandBruno on May 17, 2021, 11:14:39 AM
Quote from: Ketzster on May 17, 2021, 07:44:47 AM
Why would we only get rid of Smith if an elite level manager was available? There’s a huge gap between Dean Smith and elite level so surely to get to elite you have to move up the ladder graudally

Nobody knows what the targets were but I doubt when Martinez signed and was talking about Europe, or when Grealish signed his contract, that the target was 11th or 12th and a second half of the season like this

Grealish was interviewed earlier in the season and said after he is meeting with Smith, Purslow and owners, the ambition this year was top 12-top 10

Where did Grealish say top 12 was a target? There were numerous interviews where he said the club had huge ambitions

I think a jump of 5-7 places is pretty good. Do it two seasons in a row and you're sitting somewhere between 7th and 3rd. That would match being highly ambitious and also being successful.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: RamboandBruno on May 17, 2021, 12:43:01 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Ketzster on May 17, 2021, 11:43:54 AM
Quote from: RamboandBruno on May 17, 2021, 11:14:39 AM
Quote from: Ketzster on May 17, 2021, 07:44:47 AM
Why would we only get rid of Smith if an elite level manager was available? There’s a huge gap between Dean Smith and elite level so surely to get to elite you have to move up the ladder graudally

Nobody knows what the targets were but I doubt when Martinez signed and was talking about Europe, or when Grealish signed his contract, that the target was 11th or 12th and a second half of the season like this

Grealish was interviewed earlier in the season and said after he is meeting with Smith, Purslow and owners, the ambition this year was top 12-top 10

Where did Grealish say top 12 was a target? There were numerous interviews where he said the club had huge ambitions

I saw it in a video at the time which I haven’t got time to look for now, but interview/quote is here https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/aston-villa/2021/02/02/jack-grealish-exclusive-aston-villa-ace-outlines-his-ambitions-for-club-and-country/

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: tony scott on May 17, 2021, 02:21:34 PM
			

			

				Dean will be under pressure, as would any manager following the drop off in form and results, since the turn of the year.  Yesterday was very disappointing, but he was hampered by, having his two game changers on the bench needing to get up to match fitness following long layoffs not ideal.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Allan C on May 17, 2021, 04:24:21 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Drummond on May 17, 2021, 11:59:35 AM
Quote from: Ketzster on May 17, 2021, 11:43:54 AM
Quote from: RamboandBruno on May 17, 2021, 11:14:39 AM
Quote from: Ketzster on May 17, 2021, 07:44:47 AM
Why would we only get rid of Smith if an elite level manager was available? There’s a huge gap between Dean Smith and elite level so surely to get to elite you have to move up the ladder graudally

Nobody knows what the targets were but I doubt when Martinez signed and was talking about Europe, or when Grealish signed his contract, that the target was 11th or 12th and a second half of the season like this

Grealish was interviewed earlier in the season and said after he is meeting with Smith, Purslow and owners, the ambition this year was top 12-top 10

Where did Grealish say top 12 was a target? There were numerous interviews where he said the club had huge ambitions

I think a jump of 5-7 places is pretty good. Do it two seasons in a row and you're sitting somewhere between 7th and 3rd. That would match being highly ambitious and also being successful.
Absolutely spot on. None of us know the target set for this season or what Grealish was tempted with when he signed his contract but I’d bet my house on it not being a European position this season. Ambition isn’t a one season thing and that’s what I think Grealish has bought into 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Footy-Vill on May 17, 2021, 04:54:56 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: RamboandBruno on May 17, 2021, 11:14:39 AM
Quote from: Ketzster on May 17, 2021, 07:44:47 AM
Why would we only get rid of Smith if an elite level manager was available? There’s a huge gap between Dean Smith and elite level so surely to get to elite you have to move up the ladder graudally

Nobody knows what the targets were but I doubt when Martinez signed and was talking about Europe, or when Grealish signed his contract, that the target was 11th or 12th and a second half of the season like this

Grealish was interviewed earlier in the season and said after he is meeting with Smith, Purslow and owners, the ambition this year was top 12-top 10

Well on track then
Next season higher up and a potential cup win.
I think steady and continued progress is being made and circumstances this season prevented us from finishing even higher. 
We certainly looked a top 6 team to 8 and even top 4 at times this season.
I think it's fantastic progress masterminded on the pitch by Dean.
I love the guy! Think he's football intelligent and only wants what's best for the club.

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on May 17, 2021, 04:58:24 PM
			

			

				it’s alright saying Smith isn’t good enough to take us to where we want to be which i assume is top 6
and I agree I don’t think he is 

But you have to replace him with someone who you think can
and that right now is a very difficult find 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Hockley Lion on May 17, 2021, 05:09:43 PM
			

			

				I think some of the expectations expressed on here are deluded to the point that clinical intervention should be considered.

Is there anybody on here who wouldn't have taken 11th at the beginning of the season?

Less than 3 seasons in charge and DS has taken us from mid table Championship to mid table Premier League. With more investment there's no reason why we can't take another step up next season.

There aren't many teams above us I wouldn't have expected to be there, those being West Ham & maybe Leeds. Both with extremely experienced managers however much you may despise Moyes.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on May 17, 2021, 05:45:20 PM
			

			

				Does anyone despise Moyes?!
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Martin Carruthers on May 17, 2021, 05:47:28 PM
			

			

				I thought that. He's a competent mid-table manager. No more or less than that.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: chrisw1 on May 17, 2021, 05:50:43 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Hockley Lion on May 17, 2021, 05:09:43 PM
I think some of the expectations expressed on here are deluded to the point that clinical intervention should be considered.

Is there anybody on here who wouldn't have taken 11th at the beginning of the season?

Less than 3 seasons in charge and DS has taken us from mid table Championship to mid table Premier League. With more investment there's no reason why we can't take another step up next season.

There aren't many teams above us I wouldn't have expected to be there, those being West Ham & maybe Leeds. Both with extremely experienced managers however much you may despise Moyes.
How many times are peole going to say this?  Yes, I guess most people would have taken 11th and yes is shows good progress season on season (ably assisted by another £100m investment in the team of course).  But 4 wins in 24 games is a fucking awful run that has lasted well over half a season.  If that doesn't trouble you then fine, but some of us think the inability to get out of a rut that has lasted for so long is a bit of a problem.  Is that deluded to the point that clinical intervention should be considered?

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: The Edge on May 17, 2021, 05:54:06 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Martin Carruthers on May 17, 2021, 05:47:28 PM
I thought that. He's a competent mid-table manager. No more or less than that.
Who is? 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: chrisw1 on May 17, 2021, 05:54:54 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: The Edge on May 17, 2021, 05:54:06 PM
Quote from: Martin Carruthers on May 17, 2021, 05:47:28 PM
I thought that. He's a competent mid-table manager. No more or less than that.
Who is? 
He's referring to Moyes.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Martin Carruthers on May 17, 2021, 05:58:18 PM
			

			

				Sorry, yes, Moyes. Agreeing with SE that 'despising' him seemed a bit harsh!
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: VILLA MOLE on May 17, 2021, 06:04:45 PM
			

			

				never had a problem with him other than having a go at a female journalist who had the temerity to ask a question he didn’t like.  he retorted along the lines of ‘if you had been a bloke i would have smacked you for that question’ 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Steve67 on May 17, 2021, 06:24:50 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Hockley Lion on May 17, 2021, 05:09:43 PM
I think some of the expectations expressed on here are deluded to the point that clinical intervention should be considered.

Is there anybody on here who wouldn't have taken 11th at the beginning of the season?

Less than 3 seasons in charge and DS has taken us from mid table Championship to mid table Premier League. With more investment there's no reason why we can't take another step up next season.

There aren't many teams above us I wouldn't have expected to be there, those being West Ham & maybe Leeds. Both with extremely experienced managers however much you may despise Moyes.

Completely over the top and unnecessary comment.  Wouldn't it just be better to say that you disagree with others instead of that sort of shit? 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Allan C on May 17, 2021, 06:55:37 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: chrisw1 on May 17, 2021, 05:50:43 PM
Quote from: Hockley Lion on May 17, 2021, 05:09:43 PM
I think some of the expectations expressed on here are deluded to the point that clinical intervention should be considered.

Is there anybody on here who wouldn't have taken 11th at the beginning of the season?

Less than 3 seasons in charge and DS has taken us from mid table Championship to mid table Premier League. With more investment there's no reason why we can't take another step up next season.

There aren't many teams above us I wouldn't have expected to be there, those being West Ham & maybe Leeds. Both with extremely experienced managers however much you may despise Moyes.
How many times are peole going to say this?  Yes, I guess most people would have taken 11th and yes is shows good progress season on season (ably assisted by another £100m investment in the team of course).  But 4 wins in 24 games is a fucking awful run that has lasted well over half a season.  If that doesn't trouble you then fine, but some of us think the inability to get out of a rut that has lasted for so long is a bit of a problem.  Is that deluded to the point that clinical intervention should be considered?
No but you and others are not considering other possible reasons for the decline other than Smith reaching his limit. 
1. Covid infection in the squad
2. Losing arguably the best player in the PL for 3 months
3. A largely mid-table squad when the first eleven needed replacing 
4. Fatigue in the first eleven caused by by lack of squad depth
Others trot out that Smith has said Covid and fatigue are not factors but it can’t be just coincidence that our decline began at that time. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: RamboandBruno on May 17, 2021, 06:56:25 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Steve67 on May 17, 2021, 06:24:50 PM
Quote from: Hockley Lion on May 17, 2021, 05:09:43 PM
I think some of the expectations expressed on here are deluded to the point that clinical intervention should be considered.

Is there anybody on here who wouldn't have taken 11th at the beginning of the season?

Less than 3 seasons in charge and DS has taken us from mid table Championship to mid table Premier League. With more investment there's no reason why we can't take another step up next season.

There aren't many teams above us I wouldn't have expected to be there, those being West Ham & maybe Leeds. Both with extremely experienced managers however much you may despise Moyes.

Completely over the top and unnecessary comment.  Wouldn't it just be better to say that you disagree with others instead of that sort of shit?

Other than the first paragraph, which I can see may cause offence, I actually agree with the sentiment in this post.
And in answer to chrisW, we have been in a bad run in the second half of the season, but people will continue posting this sort of stuff as long as they think there is an irrationality in talk at this moment in time in replacing Smith. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on May 17, 2021, 07:01:54 PM
			

			

				We are not the only team to suffer with Covid, 
We are not the only team to lose players through injury.
We are not the only team not to have huge squad depth.
You will struggle to find many teams that have not been relegated to only win 6 of their last 23 games though.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Olof's Beard on May 17, 2021, 07:03:09 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: chrisw1 on May 17, 2021, 05:50:43 PM
Quote from: Hockley Lion on May 17, 2021, 05:09:43 PM
I think some of the expectations expressed on here are deluded to the point that clinical intervention should be considered.

Is there anybody on here who wouldn't have taken 11th at the beginning of the season?

Less than 3 seasons in charge and DS has taken us from mid table Championship to mid table Premier League. With more investment there's no reason why we can't take another step up next season.

There aren't many teams above us I wouldn't have expected to be there, those being West Ham & maybe Leeds. Both with extremely experienced managers however much you may despise Moyes.
How many times are peole going to say this?  Yes, I guess most people would have taken 11th and yes is shows good progress season on season (ably assisted by another £100m investment in the team of course).  But 4 wins in 24 games is a fucking awful run that has lasted well over half a season.  If that doesn't trouble you then fine, but some of us think the inability to get out of a rut that has lasted for so long is a bit of a problem.  Is that deluded to the point that clinical intervention should be considered?


I don't know where this 4 wins in 24 comes from.  We've won 5 of our last 18 going back as far as Southampton and we beat Newcastle a couple of games before that. It's definitely been a naff run but it's not as bad as 4 in 24. I think it's 6 wins in 21 since we returned from the Covid situation. Let's not forget that we only won 9 from 38 when relegation fodder last year.  This season, it seems we were over-achieving a bit when we won 8 from our first 15 and we've very definitely under-achieved during our run of 6 wins in 21, albeit against the backdrop of losing our best player. The biggest damage was done in the immediate aftermath of losing Jack when we carried no attacking threat at all through an easy run of games on paper. I think we've adjusted better without since from an attacking sense but that's coincided with a trickier run of games. Ultimately we've ended up about where we belong in mid-table and I'm confident that we'll improve again next season.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ez on May 17, 2021, 07:15:09 PM
			

			

				I'd have liked to have seen us recover our good form by now but it looks like we'll have to wait for next season for that. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Monty on May 17, 2021, 07:17:47 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: VILLA MOLE on May 17, 2021, 06:04:45 PM
never had a problem with him other than having a go at a female journalist who had the temerity to ask a question he didn’t like.  he retorted along the lines of ‘if you had been a bloke i would have smacked you for that question’ 

That...that is not nice.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: chrisw1 on May 17, 2021, 07:22:33 PM
			

			

				We've had 24 games from 28-Dec (inc 1 cup game) and we've won 5 of them by my count.

It doesn't strike me that people who are dissapointed by this are deluded to the extent that they need medical intervention.  What do you think?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Allan C on May 17, 2021, 07:23:59 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: ChicagoLion on May 17, 2021, 07:01:54 PM
We are not the only team to suffer with Covid, 
We are not the only team to lose players through injury.
We are not the only team not to have huge squad depth.
You will struggle to find many teams that have not been relegated to only win 6 of their last 23 games though.
Which team in the current top half suffered a serious Covid outbreak whilst have a largely mid to lower half back up squad and also lost their most influential player while still retaining their top half position????
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Lastfootstamper on May 17, 2021, 07:29:11 PM
			

			

				Newcastle, 6 wins in 26
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Lastfootstamper on May 17, 2021, 07:31:05 PM
			

			

				Brighton, 6 wins in 27
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: chrisw1 on May 17, 2021, 07:34:38 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on May 17, 2021, 07:29:11 PM
Newcastle, 6 wins in 26
OK I can't count.  I think it's 6 in 24 inc a cup game.  But we're arguing over the shortest dwarf here.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Lastfootstamper on May 17, 2021, 07:34:49 PM
			

			

				Palace, 7 wins in 25
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Steve67 on May 17, 2021, 07:35:16 PM
			

			

				Every team suffered from Covid, to a more of lesser degree.  The training complex was closed and we only carried on playing after every single player was fit again.  It may have affected our momentum but not to the degree that we only win a handful of games over the rest of the season.  Losing Jack also has nothing to do with Covid and seems to happen once a season.  We have to sign other quality players and be better prepared for it. I would ask the question: is Dean getting enough out of the players?

Regardless of any excuses offered, the second half of the season was nearly as bad as last season!
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Lastfootstamper on May 17, 2021, 07:39:12 PM
			

			

				I think they all highlight that our form isn't nailed-on relegation, it's merely that of a team that's more likely to finish in the bottom half of the table than the top half. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Olof's Beard on May 17, 2021, 07:43:53 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: chrisw1 on May 17, 2021, 07:22:33 PM
We've had 24 games from 28-Dec (inc 1 cup game) and we've won 5 of them by my count.

It doesn't strike me that people who are dissapointed by this are deluded to the extent that they need medical intervention.  What do you think?

We've beaten Newcastle, Southampton, Leeds, Arsenal, Fulham and Everton since the Covid break, so that's 6. That's the 6 in 21, including the Man Yoo and Chelsea games pre Covid break then it's 6 in 23 I suppose but then it's all getting a bit arbitrary. 

It's been a hugely disappointing and unacceptable run but I don't think it's that unusual as others are pointing out in relation to other teams. It's a chuffing tough league and even scab 6 teams have had crappy runs this season. You could argue that it makes our first half of the season all the more impressive if you spin it another way.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on May 17, 2021, 07:53:18 PM
			

			

				We've taken 20 points from the last 20 games. At this point last year, we'd taken 19 from the last 20 games. This year, the only teams with a worse record over the same period are Southampton and the three relegated teams. It's been hugely crap for far too long.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on May 17, 2021, 08:01:14 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Hockley Lion on May 17, 2021, 05:09:43 PM
Is there anybody on here who wouldn't have taken 11th at the beginning of the season?

Very true but then we weren't counting on bringing in a top keeper, Targett turning 180º to become a quality left back, Cash on the other side with a lionheart and like Ollie adapting to the PL like a duck to water. The benchmark was raised so much that at Christmas I doubt you'd find many on here wouldn't have taken 11th for the end of the season.

Somebody mentioned the other day form wise we're 4th from bottom. There is an elephant in the room that needs to be addressed. We've been generally crap for over 4 months. Something is seriously not right. I'm leaning on the side of it's more the players fault than Dean's but he's not helped himself. That said, when you're forced to play Barkley, El Ghazi, Trez or Traore, it's generally like playing with 10 men, all are bench players at best.

As for keeping us up last season (by the skin of our teeth), I really don't think it's a great deal to shout about. It took the Covid break for Dean to address the problem. That shit scares me.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on May 17, 2021, 08:06:34 PM
			

			

				The other thing about the potential for long Covid being an issue is that DS is famously coy about injuries if he thinks that honesty might boost our opponents. We may hear more in the summer. Or I could be talking nonsense. All options are on the table.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Rudy65 on May 17, 2021, 09:04:02 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Hockley Lion on May 17, 2021, 05:09:43 PM
I think some of the expectations expressed on here are deluded to the point that clinical intervention should be considered.

Is there anybody on here who wouldn't have taken 11th at the beginning of the season?

Less than 3 seasons in charge and DS has taken us from mid table Championship to mid table Premier League. With more investment there's no reason why we can't take another step up next season.

There aren't many teams above us I wouldn't have expected to be there, those being West Ham & maybe Leeds. Both with extremely experienced managers however much you may despise Moyes.

4th bottom of the form guide over the last 15 games. Won 10 out of the last 32. Since Xmas it’s been Awful football, no passion, no leadership on and off the pitch, no change of tactics, no clear plan, leaving subs until we are in trouble, we look clueless etc. Massive shake up needed in the summer
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Rudy65 on May 17, 2021, 09:10:28 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on May 17, 2021, 07:39:12 PM
I think they all highlight that our form isn't nailed-on relegation, it's merely that of a team that's more likely to finish in the bottom half of the table than the top half.

4th bottom over the last 15 is too close for comfort 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Allan C on May 17, 2021, 09:22:54 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Steve67 on May 17, 2021, 07:35:16 PM
Every team suffered from Covid, to a more of lesser degree.  The training complex was closed and we only carried on playing after every single player was fit again.  It may have affected our momentum but not to the degree that we only win a handful of games over the rest of the season.  Losing Jack also has nothing to do with Covid and seems to happen once a season.  We have to sign other quality players and be better prepared for it. I would ask the question: is Dean getting enough out of the players?

Regardless of any excuses offered, the second half of the season was nearly as bad as last season!
I don’t think any of us would disagree that our form has been poor since Christmas. But the same manager had us playing the best football in years up to that point whilst bringing in new and exciting talent as the start of a much needed rebuild. Yet people overlook that point and suggest that very same manager is the cause of the poor form, despite the squad having a Covid outbreak, a generally weak squad depth and losing his best player for three months!! Maybe that’s the cause of poor end to the season???? 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ketzster on May 17, 2021, 09:36:39 PM
			

			

				If we lose the last two games, it would be 37 points from 34 games since winning away at Leicester. 


			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on May 17, 2021, 09:38:30 PM
			

			

				Even finishing top 8 this season will have teams in poor runs. Spurs have won same amount as we have since mid December I think and could still finish 5th.

That 6th place finish under O'Leary in 03/04 we won 15 games in the season so only one off that currently, Newcastle somehow finished above us with just 13 wins.

First MON 6th place season we won 16 games. We really aren't far away as long as we can get another 2-3 decent players in this summer.

Disappointment this season is we were in a really good position going into March after winning at Leeds and completely messed up the games v Sheffield United and Newcastle simply because we didn't have much of an idea how to play without Grealish at that point, at least in last few weeks we've at least had some good halves but a little bit too late.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: PaulWinch again on May 17, 2021, 09:42:58 PM
			

			

				The lack of points in the second half of the season is probably reflective of two things, in the main. Firstly Jack missing about a third of the season and also a lack of tactical awareness/an ability to manage games better. The former will always be a problem, but we need to improve the squad to mitigate the damage if Jack is injured. The latter is on Dean to develop more varied plans and be more proactive. It should be said that a stronger squad should help the second issue too.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on May 17, 2021, 09:46:00 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on May 17, 2021, 08:06:34 PM
The other thing about the potential for long Covid being an issue is that DS is famously coy about injuries if he thinks that honesty might boost our opponents. We may hear more in the summer. Or I could be talking nonsense. All options are on the table.

Depends who got it bad. I think it was said at the time Trez suffered and given how Barkley and Luiz's form had massively dipped in last three months both those probably struggled a bit but then I look back and see Barkley started the first 6 games after we returned, only dropped to the bench for the Leeds game in late Feb. Luiz was on the bench v Arsenal in early Feb.

It would seem a bit insane if say Ollie and McGinn had it and doctor saying to DS to make sure they take it a bit easier.....and yet they still play 90 minutes every 3-4 days as has happened. When Newcastle had their outbreak Saint Maximn was impacted and Newcastle eased him back with 3-4 sub cameos despite him being their best player by miles so I can't believe DS would just go against medical advice.

Aside from a bit of rotation in midfield and out wide it's largely been the same 7-8 players regularly starting as we had between September-December so I simply don't believe covid was that bad within the squad other than disruption caused by training ground closing. And of course they're being tested on daily basis to see if endurance levels are signifcantly dropping.

I don't buy it as an excuse otherwise we'd have seen much more rotated teams in the early games. Just looked back and between late Jan and early Feb we played Burnley, Southampton and West Ham within 7 day period. We made grand total of one change to the first 11 for the three games.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Steve67 on May 17, 2021, 09:46:28 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Allan C on May 17, 2021, 09:22:54 PM
Quote from: Steve67 on May 17, 2021, 07:35:16 PM
Every team suffered from Covid, to a more of lesser degree.  The training complex was closed and we only carried on playing after every single player was fit again.  It may have affected our momentum but not to the degree that we only win a handful of games over the rest of the season.  Losing Jack also has nothing to do with Covid and seems to happen once a season.  We have to sign other quality players and be better prepared for it. I would ask the question: is Dean getting enough out of the players?

Regardless of any excuses offered, the second half of the season was nearly as bad as last season!
I don’t think any of us would disagree that our form has been poor since Christmas. But the same manager had us playing the best football in years up to that point whilst bringing in new and exciting talent as the start of a much needed rebuild. Yet people overlook that point and suggest that very same manager is the cause of the poor form, despite the squad having a Covid outbreak, a generally weak squad depth and losing his best player for three months!! Maybe that’s the cause of poor end to the season???? 

We strengthened the squad in January Allan, we bought the wrong type of player in Sanson when we needed a strong defensive midfielder.  We can all see it yet Dean can’t?  Same manager, same tactics. To be fair we also showed at times, against Southampton and Leeds how poor we can be even in the first half of the season.  I appreciate that Rome wasn’t built in a day and we are still a side in assembly phase but having spent what we have, I’d expect 11th as the minimum.  

Would any other manager sustained the start that we made? 

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: The Edge on May 17, 2021, 09:48:07 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Martin Carruthers on May 17, 2021, 05:58:18 PM
Sorry, yes, Moyes. Agreeing with SE that 'despising' him seemed a bit harsh!
Oh ok I get it. I'm a bit slow on the uptake sometimes   :(
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: AV82EC on May 17, 2021, 09:51:49 PM
			

			

				Having spent what we’ve spent, the wages we pay and the value of the squad we’re pretty much bang on for where we should be i.e mid table. Yep it’s disappointing that we have struggled in the second half of the season but we have a mid table 1st XI and a weaker squad outside that with probably 2 guaranteed starters in a top 4 team. A further investment of £150-£150m this summer FFP allowing should see us be more competitive from 5-7th next season. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Villan82 on May 17, 2021, 09:52:06 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: SoccerHQ on May 17, 2021, 09:38:30 PM
Even finishing top 8 this season will have teams in poor runs. Spurs have won same amount as we have since mid December I think and could still finish 5th.

That 6th place finish under O'Leary in 03/04 we won 15 games in the season so only one off that currently, Newcastle somehow finished above us with just 13 wins.

First MON 6th place season we won 16 games. We really aren't far away as long as we can get another 2-3 decent players in this summer.

Disappointment this season is we were in a really good position going into March after winning at Leeds and completely messed up the games v Sheffield United and Newcastle simply because we didn't have much of an idea how to play without Grealish at that point, at least in last few weeks we've at least had some good halves but a little bit too late.

A few of us were remarking, at various points of the season, that we still lose too many games and it would be nice if Dean could make us harder to beat. At that point we were still in the hunt for Europe and people were saying that 'draws are no good'. Well, they are better than defeats and 4 or 5 extra points isn't to be sniffed at. 

We just lose too many that we shouldn't lose. Palace away, Burnley away, Sheff United. We need to be more ruthless about accumulating points and leaving nothing behind.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on May 17, 2021, 10:04:02 PM
			

			

				Yeah there's a balance really. I don't mind going for 3 points more as draws towards end of two of the MON seasons cost us higher places aswell even if they kept us in the mix in short run.

I thought with way we blasted Liverpool off the pitch we were going to have a really good home season but since then think we've only won 4 home games in 16 which isn't great at all.

It can be excused by BCD but truth is we simply don't win enough home games season in season out to really challenge high up the season, need 11-12 wins and we've only won 10 once in 20 seasons!
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: cdbearsfan on May 17, 2021, 10:40:20 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on May 17, 2021, 05:45:20 PM
Does anyone despise Moyes?!

Me. I'm still pissed off at him for nicking the recipe for Flaming Homers and passing it off as his own.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: tony scott on May 17, 2021, 10:54:50 PM
			

			

				What are we going to do about Jack, undoubtably our best player, he’s a huge miss when injured, but in the games leading up to his injury some teams had found ways to limit his influence, that should have  sent alarm bells ringing , and the coaching staff should have sent the team out cater for this..  Overall the seasons been ok but  the expectation level has risen. Dean in that unique position of Fan/Manager must be disappointed by the seasons fade away 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Toronto Villa on May 17, 2021, 10:58:22 PM
			

			

				The thing I take solace in is that the season before it was all Jack and teams found ways to slow him or stop him and he was still ace. We then added better players and he was no longer the entire focus of the opponents attention and he was even more ace. Then as the season went on teams figured things out, took longer but they did and then he got hurt. This summer if we add more really good players what should happen is that teams cannot focus solely on him which means over a longer stretch of the season he will be even more fucking ace and we will win the league. Or something like that.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: RamboandBruno on May 17, 2021, 11:05:40 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Steve67 on May 17, 2021, 09:46:28 PM
Quote from: Allan C on May 17, 2021, 09:22:54 PM
Quote from: Steve67 on May 17, 2021, 07:35:16 PM
Every team suffered from Covid, to a more of lesser degree.  The training complex was closed and we only carried on playing after every single player was fit again.  It may have affected our momentum but not to the degree that we only win a handful of games over the rest of the season.  Losing Jack also has nothing to do with Covid and seems to happen once a season.  We have to sign other quality players and be better prepared for it. I would ask the question: is Dean getting enough out of the players?

Regardless of any excuses offered, the second half of the season was nearly as bad as last season!
I don’t think any of us would disagree that our form has been poor since Christmas. But the same manager had us playing the best football in years up to that point whilst bringing in new and exciting talent as the start of a much needed rebuild. Yet people overlook that point and suggest that very same manager is the cause of the poor form, despite the squad having a Covid outbreak, a generally weak squad depth and losing his best player for three months!! Maybe that’s the cause of poor end to the season???? 

We strengthened the squad in January Allan, we bought the wrong type of player in Sanson when we needed a strong defensive midfielder.  We can all see it yet Dean can’t?  Same manager, same tactics. To be fair we also showed at times, against Southampton and Leeds how poor we can be even in the first half of the season.  I appreciate that Rome wasn’t built in a day and we are still a side in assembly phase but having spent what we have, I’d expect 11th as the minimum.  

Would any other manager sustained the start that we made?

Lots and lots of managers/teams haven’t sustained really good starts to the season, I don’t really get the point, football history is littered with teams falling away, it happens every year. What manager would you want, I’m not sure you’ve said yet 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: brontebilly on May 18, 2021, 12:30:28 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Steve67 on May 17, 2021, 09:46:28 PM
Quote from: Allan C on May 17, 2021, 09:22:54 PM
Quote from: Steve67 on May 17, 2021, 07:35:16 PM
Every team suffered from Covid, to a more of lesser degree.  The training complex was closed and we only carried on playing after every single player was fit again.  It may have affected our momentum but not to the degree that we only win a handful of games over the rest of the season.  Losing Jack also has nothing to do with Covid and seems to happen once a season.  We have to sign other quality players and be better prepared for it. I would ask the question: is Dean getting enough out of the players?

Regardless of any excuses offered, the second half of the season was nearly as bad as last season!
I don’t think any of us would disagree that our form has been poor since Christmas. But the same manager had us playing the best football in years up to that point whilst bringing in new and exciting talent as the start of a much needed rebuild. Yet people overlook that point and suggest that very same manager is the cause of the poor form, despite the squad having a Covid outbreak, a generally weak squad depth and losing his best player for three months!! Maybe that’s the cause of poor end to the season???? 

We strengthened the squad in January Allan, we bought the wrong type of player in Sanson when we needed a strong defensive midfielder.  We can all see it yet Dean can’t?  Same manager, same tactics. To be fair we also showed at times, against Southampton and Leeds how poor we can be even in the first half of the season.  I appreciate that Rome wasn’t built in a day and we are still a side in assembly phase but having spent what we have, I’d expect 11th as the minimum.  

Would any other manager sustained the start that we made?

Smith played his first choice into the ground in the first half of the season. That's the primary reason for fatigue in Feb/March, despite Deano (in his best Mike Bassett impression) saying he didn't believe in player fatigue around that time. He failed to rotate, failed to even make subs a lot of the time and lost a couple of decent players to loan. Mitigating factors include Grealish's injury, Sanson injured/lack of impact but that only explains so much. One of his big signings, Barkley, was meant to share the attacking burden but has turned out to be an expensive flop. 

While all focus has been on the inability to mitigate the impact of Grealish being unavailable, the big change for me is that once opposition teams started pressing our midfield two, we had no answer tactically. It was the same in the second half v Palace. Forced to go direct, taking our two wingers out of the game and relying on Watkins ropey enough first touch. Smith has had no answer there. This was a problem before Grealish's injury, games like Southampton away he had little or no support and carried us on his back. That wasn't remotely sustainable.

Irrespective of the final two games Smith will get a pass for this season and deservedly so. But he will be very much starting under pressure next season. If this current form were to continue into a slow start next season then I'd like to see a quick change made. In all honesty, succession planning should already be starting. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on May 18, 2021, 06:15:55 AM
			

			

				That’s a fair analysis brontebilly. 


			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Dave P on May 18, 2021, 06:29:02 AM
			

			

				I’m very much Smith in but he will definitely start next season under pressure. 

If Smith does go, then I fully expect John Terry to be promoted. This is probably the only reason he hasn’t left and got a managers job already. 

Second favourite for the job will probably be Southgate so we need to be careful what we wish for!
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on May 18, 2021, 07:39:54 AM
			

			

				The managers available when you're a mid table Championship team, and those when you're a big spending Premier League outfit will be very, very different.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Mister E on May 18, 2021, 09:21:06 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: brontebilly on May 18, 2021, 12:30:28 AM
Smith played his first choice into the ground in the first half of the season. That's the primary reason for fatigue in Feb/March, despite Deano (in his best Mike Bassett impression) saying he didn't believe in player fatigue around that time. He failed to rotate, failed to even make subs a lot of the time and lost a couple of decent players to loan. Mitigating factors include Grealish's injury, Sanson injured/lack of impact but that only explains so much. One of his big signings, Barkley, was meant to share the attacking burden but has turned out to be an expensive flop. 
While all focus has been on the inability to mitigate the impact of Grealish being unavailable, the big change for me is that once opposition teams started pressing our midfield two, we had no answer tactically. It was the same in the second half v Palace. Forced to go direct, taking our two wingers out of the game and relying on Watkins ropey enough first touch. Smith has had no answer there. This was a problem before Grealish's injury, games like Southampton away he had little or no support and carried us on his back. That wasn't remotely sustainable.
Irrespective of the final two games Smith will get a pass for this season and deservedly so. But he will be very much starting under pressure next season. If this current form were to continue into a slow start next season then I'd like to see a quick change made. In all honesty, succession planning should already be starting. 
Interesting analysis.
On the CP post-match thread, I offered that we made the mistake of continuing to try and play wide even as Palace were overrunning us; and continued to do so even after the poor Traore went off. As things became more compressed, I think we should have made the game narrower by bringing in central midfielders on to replace the wide players, and use the fullbacks for the width we may have needed. My reasoning is that we play too open often, particularly when we're in the lead: it seems naive - perhaps laudable - but it has done for us in a number of games this season.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: brontebilly on May 18, 2021, 09:56:04 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Mister E on May 18, 2021, 09:21:06 AM
Quote from: brontebilly on May 18, 2021, 12:30:28 AM
Smith played his first choice into the ground in the first half of the season. That's the primary reason for fatigue in Feb/March, despite Deano (in his best Mike Bassett impression) saying he didn't believe in player fatigue around that time. He failed to rotate, failed to even make subs a lot of the time and lost a couple of decent players to loan. Mitigating factors include Grealish's injury, Sanson injured/lack of impact but that only explains so much. One of his big signings, Barkley, was meant to share the attacking burden but has turned out to be an expensive flop. 
While all focus has been on the inability to mitigate the impact of Grealish being unavailable, the big change for me is that once opposition teams started pressing our midfield two, we had no answer tactically. It was the same in the second half v Palace. Forced to go direct, taking our two wingers out of the game and relying on Watkins ropey enough first touch. Smith has had no answer there. This was a problem before Grealish's injury, games like Southampton away he had little or no support and carried us on his back. That wasn't remotely sustainable.
Irrespective of the final two games Smith will get a pass for this season and deservedly so. But he will be very much starting under pressure next season. If this current form were to continue into a slow start next season then I'd like to see a quick change made. In all honesty, succession planning should already be starting. 
Interesting analysis.
On the CP post-match thread, I offered that we made the mistake of continuing to try and play wide even as Palace were overrunning us; and continued to do so even after the poor Traore went off. As things became more compressed, I think we should have made the game narrower by bringing in central midfielders on to replace the wide players, and use the fullbacks for the width we may have needed. My reasoning is that we play too open often, particularly when we're in the lead: it seems naive - perhaps laudable - but it has done for us in a number of games this season.

Traore is a liability on the right wing. Could have tried shifting McGinn out there, drop Ramsey in, anything really. Neither Luis or McGinn are disciplined enough either. Last few minutes of Everton game, Luiz bombs forward leaving a huge space behind. Everton counter and McGinn is forced to take a yellow. The day of playing a midfield two with one sitting and one pushing forward are over. Especially with likes of Traore and Barkley in the team. To be fair to AEG, he is putting in more of a shift getting back these days. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on May 18, 2021, 10:30:44 AM
			

			

				I'm a bit late on this but in the last 24 league games (i.e. since Christmas) our record is

7W, 6D, 11L

To put that in context it is midtable form over that period not relegation form as many on here like to suggest, over a season that would be 42-43 points. I've said a few times I think we're only marginally short of where we want to be, despite how the match threads look there's only been a handful of games where we haven't looked capable of taking the points (both Man City games for example but then that's true for almost every team in the league). 

A decent summer, another year of experience for the squad and a bit of self-reflection from the coaches on what they could do better and I think we'll be well in the mix for Europe next season. With the supposedly huge budget and the philosophy of signing players on the way up I don't get why so many people are so negative. Sunday was disappointing, we should've been well ahead by half-time and never should've been bullied so easily in the 2nd half (it was a perfect example of why we need a big mean bastard in midfield though) but I still think we've come on a long way this season and there are more positives than negatives from the year as a whole.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Monty on May 18, 2021, 10:34:18 AM
			

			

				Lower midtable, I'd argue. Only just beating 40 points. Not arguing that we've considerably improved this season overall, but this calendar year has been clearly inadequate.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on May 18, 2021, 10:45:39 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Monty on May 18, 2021, 10:34:18 AM
Lower midtable, I'd argue. Only just beating 40 points. Not arguing that we've considerably improved this season overall, but this calendar year has been clearly inadequate.

Normally it'd be lower midtable but this season on all results since Christmas we're 11th so it's genuinely midtable form in context of the league. There is an anomaly that we've played more games than most in that period but given our own 2 week break and the clustering of games that created at times I think it's still pretty fair, especially given our 24 includes playing the top 2 home and away.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: The Edge on May 18, 2021, 10:48:38 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: paul_e on May 18, 2021, 10:30:44 AM
I'm a bit late on this but in the last 24 league games (i.e. since Christmas) our record is

7W, 6D, 11L

To put that in context it is midtable form over that period not relegation form as many on here like to suggest, over a season that would be 42-43 points. I've said a few times I think we're only marginally short of where we want to be, despite how the match threads look there's only been a handful of games where we haven't looked capable of taking the points (both Man City games for example but then that's true for almost every team in the league). 

A decent summer, another year of experience for the squad and a bit of self-reflection from the coaches on what they could do better and I think we'll be well in the mix for Europe next season. With the supposedly huge budget and the philosophy of signing players on the way up I don't get why so many people are so negative. Sunday was disappointing, we should've been well ahead by half-time and never should've been bullied so easily in the 2nd half (it was a perfect example of why we need a big mean bastard in midfield though) but I still think we've come on a long way this season and there are more positives than negatives from the year as a whole.
Totally agree with all of this. Those stats are accurate. Some people are altering them to try to justify their view about Dean Smith. Obviously they are entitled to their opinion and it seems there's a growing group who think Dean's took us as far as he can but how can they say that with any certainty? He started at Walsall his career has been on an upwards trajectory ever since. We were top six for a brief spell which represents meteoric achievement from his humble beginnings. We've since dropped back down but I really think we should stick with him until his position becomes untenable. Give him time to learn and adjust and we'll eventually fund out for sure how far he can take us. You never know he could be our Alex Ferguson. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: sickbeggar on May 18, 2021, 10:49:45 AM
			

			

				Way I see it is Grealish is probably worth half a point a game which takes us from mid-table mediocrity to the not-shit-enough-to-go-down Newcastle/Brighton type area but probably another 1 or 2 injuries to being in real trouble. If you take it as read that Grealish will probably miss various periods of a season if he stays, then we really need to look at not bringing in a grealish replacement as such but bringing in players who can play a system that minus jack can improve the 1.09 or so per game we get when he's missing. Easier said than done.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: LeeB on May 18, 2021, 10:51:20 AM
			

			

				We remind me of Big Ron's first year this season, could be brilliant and garbage within the same 90 minutes, but like that team not far away from being just brilliant.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Clampy on May 18, 2021, 10:51:54 AM
			

			

				I think there's more to be positive than negative about but it goes without saying, there is room for improvement and that includes the manager as well. For example, it didn't take a genius to work out that we were being over-run in midfield against Palace but at the same time, I can see why he didn't change it as we were causing them problems as well. Overall, it's going ok. Let's see what the transfer window brings. It sounds intriguing. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on May 18, 2021, 10:54:32 AM
			

			

				We have improved on last season
But last season was rubbish we were poor for most of it
I’ve never seen last season as a big achievement for Dean I thought we were clinging on for dear life when we should’ve been further up the table anyway

But the new narrative now is ‘well we’ve improved this season, what did you expect‘
Well I expected more last season for a start 
Where we are now is where we should’ve been last year
I’ve heard all the excuses of why we aren’t and I’m not bothered it’s not a race to the bottom

Why don’t we start looking positively and believe in what we can do rather than what we can’t do
Why don’t we start posting stuff about Where we want to be and not why we can’t get there

Someone says that be Bielsa has done a better job in his first season in the prem and there’s A bunch load of people telling us why he has and why Dean couldn’t
I don’t give a fuck I’m not interested in excuses
I’m just interested in us being where we should be with the outlay the squad and the set up
And right now it’s not good enough

We should’ve been out of the championship first time of asking But we employ useless managers until Dean came
We were the Man City of that league without the competition of Chelsea Man United Liverpool etc
We literally should’ve pissed it

Last season we were big spenders I know we renewed the squad but we aren’t Sheffield United Fulham West Brom, bournemouth Norwich or Watford yet we played like them and acted like them

We’ve got to start being more positive about the future and not making excuses for the failings of the past
And for me last season was a failing, And the second half of this season has been to

Let’s not use underperforming as the new standard to improve on 
we need higher standards than that


			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on May 18, 2021, 10:56:56 AM
			

			

				Amen.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Monty on May 18, 2021, 10:57:02 AM
			

			

				Last year we had a completely new squad having scraped up via the playoffs after going on a club-record hot streak. And we were dead and buried with four games to go. I don't think last season is no achievement at all.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: caster troy on May 18, 2021, 11:03:00 AM
			

			

				I haven't seen it mentioned but I think Jack is more likely to stay if Dean is here unless we pulled something extraordinary out of the bag with a new manager. It reminds me of how Yorke felt in debt to Brian Little, but when he left his connection to the club was weakened.




			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Clampy on May 18, 2021, 11:06:43 AM
			

			

				I haven't seen too many people not being positive about the future, but I've seen plenty of people being negative about this season. Like I've said, it's not been a total success but it's not been as bad as some try to make out either. We've given ourselves something to build on and there's reasons to be positive as we try and push on and it's been a long time since we could say that.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Villan82 on May 18, 2021, 11:09:27 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Monty on May 18, 2021, 10:57:02 AM
Last year we had a completely new squad having scraped up via the playoffs after going on a club-record hot streak. And we were dead and buried with four games to go. I don't think last season is no achievement at all.

Before the pandemic, we pissed away so many points last season. Spurs at home, Arsenal away, Bournemouth home and away, arguably Liverpool at home1-0 up after 87 minutes but came away with 0 points. Then we took some absolute hammerings from Man City, and Leicester x2. 

The Great Escape was phenomenal. And to a large extent it was job done. But it was not a season to crow about by any stretch. We were very wasteful with the points and too open pre- Covid. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: sickbeggar on May 18, 2021, 11:11:29 AM
			

			

				Looking at the current table there's not many clubs above us who you'd say have performed better than us from our low point of being skint with a team full of loaners/old men or deadwood under Bruce which is the starting point for Smith. Leeds maybe, but the rest? Surely if you start miles behind someone in a race you have to factor that in to where you are now.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on May 18, 2021, 11:16:38 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: paul_e on May 18, 2021, 10:45:39 AM
Quote from: Monty on May 18, 2021, 10:34:18 AM
Lower midtable, I'd argue. Only just beating 40 points. Not arguing that we've considerably improved this season overall, but this calendar year has been clearly inadequate.

Normally it'd be lower midtable but this season on all results since Christmas we're 11th so it's genuinely midtable form in context of the league. There is an anomaly that we've played more games than most in that period but given our own 2 week break and the clustering of games that created at times I think it's still pretty fair, especially given our 24 includes playing the top 2 home and away.

Nope, 13th actually.


			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on May 18, 2021, 11:24:18 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Dave P on May 18, 2021, 06:29:02 AM
I’m very much Smith in but he will definitely start next season under pressure. 

If Smith does go, then I fully expect John Terry to be promoted. This is probably the only reason he hasn’t left and got a managers job already. 

If this happens I think I'll go with Smith.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on May 18, 2021, 11:41:45 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on May 18, 2021, 11:24:18 AM
Quote from: Dave P on May 18, 2021, 06:29:02 AM
I’m very much Smith in but he will definitely start next season under pressure. 

If Smith does go, then I fully expect John Terry to be promoted. This is probably the only reason he hasn’t left and got a managers job already. 

If this happens I think I'll go with Smith.

I really don't think, when the time comes, as it inevitably will, that John Terry will be the answer. Unless he's gone somewhere else, done a great job and then is looking for a step up.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on May 18, 2021, 11:44:32 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on May 18, 2021, 11:16:38 AM
Quote from: paul_e on May 18, 2021, 10:45:39 AM
Quote from: Monty on May 18, 2021, 10:34:18 AM
Lower midtable, I'd argue. Only just beating 40 points. Not arguing that we've considerably improved this season overall, but this calendar year has been clearly inadequate.

Normally it'd be lower midtable but this season on all results since Christmas we're 11th so it's genuinely midtable form in context of the league. There is an anomaly that we've played more games than most in that period but given our own 2 week break and the clustering of games that created at times I think it's still pretty fair, especially given our 24 includes playing the top 2 home and away.

Nope, 13th actually.

Not sure where you're looking to get that but I gave very specific criteria of all games since Christmas and that gives you this:

https://www.statbunker.com/competitions/LeagueTable?comp_id=667&start_date=25-12-2020&end_date=01-06-2021&start_time=0&end_time=90 (https://www.statbunker.com/competitions/LeagueTable?comp_id=667&start_date=25-12-2020&end_date=01-06-2021&start_time=0&end_time=90)

I even said that there's a discrepancy in how many games we'd played compared to others so I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with.

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on May 18, 2021, 11:53:04 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: john e on May 18, 2021, 10:54:32 AM
But the new narrative now is ‘well we’ve improved this season, what did you expect‘
Well I expected more last season for a start 
Where we are now is where we should’ve been last year
I’ve heard all the excuses of why we aren’t and I’m not bothered it’s not a race to the bottom

I won't quote everything but this bit, for me, shows a lack of understanding of what happens to play off winners. Since the formation of the premier league well over half of teams promoted from the play offs have been relegated the next season. A team that finishes 3-6 in the championship is out of its depth in the premier league and the only way around that is to spend big on improving the squad but that comes with it's own dangers of "doing a Fulham" because you're going into a very competitive league with a squad that are still getting to know each other.

a play off team not going back down is always an achievement, history shows that clearly.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on May 18, 2021, 12:02:53 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: paul_e on May 18, 2021, 11:53:04 AM
Quote from: john e on May 18, 2021, 10:54:32 AM
But the new narrative now is ‘well we’ve improved this season, what did you expect‘
Well I expected more last season for a start 
Where we are now is where we should’ve been last year
I’ve heard all the excuses of why we aren’t and I’m not bothered it’s not a race to the bottom

I won't quote everything but this bit, for me, shows a lack of understanding of what happens to play off winners. Since the formation of the premier league well over half of teams promoted from the play offs have been relegated the next season. A team that finishes 3-6 in the championship is out of its depth in the premier league and the only way around that is to spend big on improving the squad but that comes with it's own dangers of "doing a Fulham" because you're going into a very competitive league with a squad that are still getting to know each other.

a play off team not going back down is always an achievement, history shows that clearly.


Like I’ve said before let’s start comparing ourselves with those who have and those who have attained better than the average rather than the race to the bottom which so many including yourself are so keen on 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on May 18, 2021, 12:07:32 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: paul_e on May 18, 2021, 11:44:32 AM
Quote from: Risso on May 18, 2021, 11:16:38 AM
Quote from: paul_e on May 18, 2021, 10:45:39 AM
Quote from: Monty on May 18, 2021, 10:34:18 AM
Lower midtable, I'd argue. Only just beating 40 points. Not arguing that we've considerably improved this season overall, but this calendar year has been clearly inadequate.

Normally it'd be lower midtable but this season on all results since Christmas we're 11th so it's genuinely midtable form in context of the league. There is an anomaly that we've played more games than most in that period but given our own 2 week break and the clustering of games that created at times I think it's still pretty fair, especially given our 24 includes playing the top 2 home and away.

Nope, 13th actually.

Not sure where you're looking to get that but I gave very specific criteria of all games since Christmas and that gives you this:

https://www.statbunker.com/competitions/LeagueTable?comp_id=667&start_date=25-12-2020&end_date=01-06-2021&start_time=0&end_time=90 (https://www.statbunker.com/competitions/LeagueTable?comp_id=667&start_date=25-12-2020&end_date=01-06-2021&start_time=0&end_time=90)

I even said that there's a discrepancy in how many games we'd played compared to others so I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with.


Well here's the table with everybody having played 24 games:


(https://i.ibb.co/3r4Yf6W/Screenshot-2021-05-18-at-11-16-05.png) (https://ibb.co/3r4Yf6W)
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: sickbeggar on May 18, 2021, 12:10:09 PM
			

			

				I'm pretty happy with where we are at this point. I'm never totally sure what people were expecting really. Smith's record is 

Promotion
17th
11th currently

That doesn't tell the whole story obviously because he made some real managerial clangers last season but its satisfactory overall for me anyway.  I'd also say his win record compares favourably to any manager we've had since MON, and there's plenty still pining for him...…..


			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Dr Butler on May 18, 2021, 12:12:27 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: sickbeggar on May 18, 2021, 12:10:09 PM
I'm pretty happy with where we are at this point. I'm never totally sure what people were expecting really. Smith's record is 

Promotion
17th
11th currently

That doesn't tell the whole story obviously because he made some real managerial clangers last season but its satisfactory overall for me anyway.  I'd also say his win record compares favourably to any manager we've had since MON, and there's plenty still pining for him...…..



and a cup final...

UTV
The Doc
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: chrisw1 on May 18, 2021, 12:12:48 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: john e on May 18, 2021, 10:54:32 AM
We have improved on last season
But last season was rubbish we were poor for most of it
I’ve never seen last season as a big achievement for Dean I thought we were clinging on for dear life when we should’ve been further up the table anyway

But the new narrative now is ‘well we’ve improved this season, what did you expect‘
Well I expected more last season for a start 
Where we are now is where we should’ve been last year
I’ve heard all the excuses of why we aren’t and I’m not bothered it’s not a race to the bottom

Why don’t we start looking positively and believe in what we can do rather than what we can’t do
Why don’t we start posting stuff about Where we want to be and not why we can’t get there

Someone says that be Bielsa has done a better job in his first season in the prem and there’s A bunch load of people telling us why he has and why Dean couldn’t
I don’t give a fuck I’m not interested in excuses
I’m just interested in us being where we should be with the outlay the squad and the set up
And right now it’s not good enough

We should’ve been out of the championship first time of asking But we employ useless managers until Dean came
We were the Man City of that league without the competition of Chelsea Man United Liverpool etc
We literally should’ve pissed it

Last season we were big spenders I know we renewed the squad but we aren’t Sheffield United Fulham West Brom, bournemouth Norwich or Watford yet we played like them and acted like them

We’ve got to start being more positive about the future and not making excuses for the failings of the past
And for me last season was a failing, And the second half of this season has been to

Let’s not use underperforming as the new standard to improve on 
we need higher standards than that


The 'improvement' also came after we had chucked another £100m at the squad.  I'd have been a bit dissapointed if we hadn't improved tbf.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: dave.woodhall on May 18, 2021, 12:13:52 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: john e on May 18, 2021, 12:02:53 PM
Quote from: paul_e on May 18, 2021, 11:53:04 AM
Quote from: john e on May 18, 2021, 10:54:32 AM
But the new narrative now is ‘well we’ve improved this season, what did you expect‘
Well I expected more last season for a start 
Where we are now is where we should’ve been last year
I’ve heard all the excuses of why we aren’t and I’m not bothered it’s not a race to the bottom

I won't quote everything but this bit, for me, shows a lack of understanding of what happens to play off winners. Since the formation of the premier league well over half of teams promoted from the play offs have been relegated the next season. A team that finishes 3-6 in the championship is out of its depth in the premier league and the only way around that is to spend big on improving the squad but that comes with it's own dangers of "doing a Fulham" because you're going into a very competitive league with a squad that are still getting to know each other.

a play off team not going back down is always an achievement, history shows that clearly.


Like I’ve said before let’s start comparing ourselves with those who have and those who have attained better than the average rather than the race to the bottom which so many including yourself are so keen on 

Yes, let's ignore everything that doesn't fit in with your narrative. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on May 18, 2021, 12:14:37 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on May 18, 2021, 12:07:32 PM
Quote from: paul_e on May 18, 2021, 11:44:32 AM
Quote from: Risso on May 18, 2021, 11:16:38 AM
Quote from: paul_e on May 18, 2021, 10:45:39 AM
Quote from: Monty on May 18, 2021, 10:34:18 AM
Lower midtable, I'd argue. Only just beating 40 points. Not arguing that we've considerably improved this season overall, but this calendar year has been clearly inadequate.

Normally it'd be lower midtable but this season on all results since Christmas we're 11th so it's genuinely midtable form in context of the league. There is an anomaly that we've played more games than most in that period but given our own 2 week break and the clustering of games that created at times I think it's still pretty fair, especially given our 24 includes playing the top 2 home and away.

Nope, 13th actually.

Not sure where you're looking to get that but I gave very specific criteria of all games since Christmas and that gives you this:

https://www.statbunker.com/competitions/LeagueTable?comp_id=667&start_date=25-12-2020&end_date=01-06-2021&start_time=0&end_time=90 (https://www.statbunker.com/competitions/LeagueTable?comp_id=667&start_date=25-12-2020&end_date=01-06-2021&start_time=0&end_time=90)

I even said that there's a discrepancy in how many games we'd played compared to others so I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with.


Well here's the table with everybody having played 24 games:


(https://i.ibb.co/3r4Yf6W/Screenshot-2021-05-18-at-11-16-05.png) (https://ibb.co/3r4Yf6W)

Wonderful but I said pretty clearly what table I was looking at and addressed the difference in games played so you just seem to be disagreeing to make things look worse than I said. Given the extra game was against Man City who've battered everyone in the period I didn't think it made much difference.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Smithy on May 18, 2021, 12:16:45 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: john e on May 18, 2021, 12:02:53 PM
Quote from: paul_e on May 18, 2021, 11:53:04 AM
Quote from: john e on May 18, 2021, 10:54:32 AM
But the new narrative now is ‘well we’ve improved this season, what did you expect‘
Well I expected more last season for a start 
Where we are now is where we should’ve been last year
I’ve heard all the excuses of why we aren’t and I’m not bothered it’s not a race to the bottom

I won't quote everything but this bit, for me, shows a lack of understanding of what happens to play off winners. Since the formation of the premier league well over half of teams promoted from the play offs have been relegated the next season. A team that finishes 3-6 in the championship is out of its depth in the premier league and the only way around that is to spend big on improving the squad but that comes with it's own dangers of "doing a Fulham" because you're going into a very competitive league with a squad that are still getting to know each other.

a play off team not going back down is always an achievement, history shows that clearly.


Like I’ve said before let’s start comparing ourselves with those who have and those who have attained better than the average rather than the race to the bottom which so many including yourself are so keen on 

Well, in the last 20 years, the only play-off winners who haven't found themselves relegated again (either immediately or within a couple of seasons) are ourselves, Palace and West Ham.  And we're already above Palace.  So you could argue that in the last 20 years there is only one play-off winner who has done better than us, and that's West Ham.  

For context, West Ham are now in their 9th season back in the top flight, and qualified for Europe 4 years after winning the play-offs, so if we were to qualify for Europe next season, we'd become the most successful play-off winners this century.

All that said, I'd MUCH rather we were still fighting it out for Europe, as our pre-Xmas form indicated we would - but I'm also realistic enough to realise we are a work in progress and have been missing our captain and best player for a third of the season.  Finishing 'Top of the bottom half' is obviously a disappointing way to end to the season, but it's by no means a disaster.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: LeeB on May 18, 2021, 12:22:25 PM
			

			

				It looks like some are disappointed that Dean hasn't overperformed. We're all impatient for success, but sometimes that in itself leads to mistakes.
I'm disappointed we haven't won much since Christmas, but we are absolutely going in the right direction. When we're not, then it's time to act.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Gareth on May 18, 2021, 12:28:25 PM
			

			

				Not read much since the Palace game as was really peeved with that 2nd half!

Dean for me has way too much credit in the bank to be under pressure for his job at the moment but if as we expect we spend a few quid in the summer and the start isn’t good it will obv ratchet up.

My two concerns are probably the same as everyone else’s, the absolute insistence on 433 all the time & the lack of any tactical substitutions until 70+ minutes.  The subs one is maybe explained by a lack of quality sat there to change games and that takes a number of transfer windows to rectify from the position we started in after promotion.

The 433 one is frustrating, anyone watching that game could see that Eze was roaming free and hurting us badly but rather than get an extra body in midfield ie Nakamba to shut him down we persevered with two wingers (who are both very poor defensively) and paid the price.

This is a massive summer ahead, increase the quality in the squad, raise the expectation to achieve!

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: chrisw1 on May 18, 2021, 12:30:26 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: paul_e on May 18, 2021, 11:44:32 AM
Quote from: Risso on May 18, 2021, 11:16:38 AM
Quote from: paul_e on May 18, 2021, 10:45:39 AM
Quote from: Monty on May 18, 2021, 10:34:18 AM
Lower midtable, I'd argue. Only just beating 40 points. Not arguing that we've considerably improved this season overall, but this calendar year has been clearly inadequate.

Normally it'd be lower midtable but this season on all results since Christmas we're 11th so it's genuinely midtable form in context of the league. There is an anomaly that we've played more games than most in that period but given our own 2 week break and the clustering of games that created at times I think it's still pretty fair, especially given our 24 includes playing the top 2 home and away.

Nope, 13th actually.

Not sure where you're looking to get that but I gave very specific criteria of all games since Christmas and that gives you this:

https://www.statbunker.com/competitions/LeagueTable?comp_id=667&start_date=25-12-2020&end_date=01-06-2021&start_time=0&end_time=90 (https://www.statbunker.com/competitions/LeagueTable?comp_id=667&start_date=25-12-2020&end_date=01-06-2021&start_time=0&end_time=90)

I even said that there's a discrepancy in how many games we'd played compared to others so I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with.


Last 6 mathes - 18th
Last 10 matches - 18th
Last 12 matches - 18th
Last 15 matches - 17th
Last 20 matches - 14th
Last 23 matches - 15th

Whichever way you want to portray this its bloody dismal.

https://www.twtd.co.uk/league-tables/competition:premier-league/form/matches:20/type:home-and-away/

https://www.soccerstats.com/formtable.asp?league=england

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on May 18, 2021, 12:31:49 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: john e on May 18, 2021, 12:02:53 PM
Quote from: paul_e on May 18, 2021, 11:53:04 AM
Quote from: john e on May 18, 2021, 10:54:32 AM
But the new narrative now is ‘well we’ve improved this season, what did you expect‘
Well I expected more last season for a start 
Where we are now is where we should’ve been last year
I’ve heard all the excuses of why we aren’t and I’m not bothered it’s not a race to the bottom

I won't quote everything but this bit, for me, shows a lack of understanding of what happens to play off winners. Since the formation of the premier league well over half of teams promoted from the play offs have been relegated the next season. A team that finishes 3-6 in the championship is out of its depth in the premier league and the only way around that is to spend big on improving the squad but that comes with it's own dangers of "doing a Fulham" because you're going into a very competitive league with a squad that are still getting to know each other.

a play off team not going back down is always an achievement, history shows that clearly.


Like I’ve said before let’s start comparing ourselves with those who have and those who have attained better than the average rather than the race to the bottom which so many including yourself are so keen on

Good idea.

Since 1996, ie 25 years, On 10 occasions clubs have managed to stay up the season after winning the play-offs.

96 Leicester Top Half
00 Ipswich Top 5
01 Bolton 16th
02 Birmingham 13th
05 West Ham 9th
08 Hull 17th
11 Swansea 11th
12 West Ham 13th
13 Crystal Palace 11th
17 Huddersfield 16th

6 of them are currently out of the division having been relegated again normally the season after. West Ham did it twice which leaves Palace who have hovered between 10th and 15th since they came back up and Leicester, who went down again before coming back and winning the thing.

Leicester's achievements have really been something else. It's a model that many clubs should aspire to isn't it? When they came back up (after winning the Championship) they finished 14th, then won it, dropped back to 12 and have then had 3 top half finishes in a row. 9th,9th,5th and the lowest of probably 5th this season.

We all want success, we all feel like we belong in the top echelons of the game, the thing is, barring Leicester, it just doesn't happen. We're making steady progress, there's not a person among us who wouldn't like to win the league, but realise that it generally just doesn't happen overnight.

It's taken Man City years from when they first started spending big to cement a place at the top, it took Chelsea a while too.

I believe we're heading in the right direction with the right model.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on May 18, 2021, 12:34:44 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: dave.woodhall on May 18, 2021, 12:13:52 PM
Quote from: john e on May 18, 2021, 12:02:53 PM
Quote from: paul_e on May 18, 2021, 11:53:04 AM
Quote from: john e on May 18, 2021, 10:54:32 AM
But the new narrative now is ‘well we’ve improved this season, what did you expect‘
Well I expected more last season for a start 
Where we are now is where we should’ve been last year
I’ve heard all the excuses of why we aren’t and I’m not bothered it’s not a race to the bottom

I won't quote everything but this bit, for me, shows a lack of understanding of what happens to play off winners. Since the formation of the premier league well over half of teams promoted from the play offs have been relegated the next season. A team that finishes 3-6 in the championship is out of its depth in the premier league and the only way around that is to spend big on improving the squad but that comes with it's own dangers of "doing a Fulham" because you're going into a very competitive league with a squad that are still getting to know each other.

a play off team not going back down is always an achievement, history shows that clearly.


Like I’ve said before let’s start comparing ourselves with those who have and those who have attained better than the average rather than the race to the bottom which so many including yourself are so keen on 

Yes, let's ignore everything that doesn't fit in with your narrative. 

It is my narrative I hold my hands up
For years you me and others complained about Doig running Villa like the Cornershop never realising the potential never realising what could be achieved

Well it’s the same on here with a lot of people everyone telling us what we can’t do And why we can’t do it 
making excuses of why we haven’t
And then trying to pretend that’s scraping out of relegation by a single point not even winning our last game but relying on others to bail us out was in fact some great season 

It wasn’t it was Cornershop mentality


			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on May 18, 2021, 12:35:33 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: chrisw1 on May 18, 2021, 12:30:26 PM
Quote from: paul_e on May 18, 2021, 11:44:32 AM
Quote from: Risso on May 18, 2021, 11:16:38 AM
Quote from: paul_e on May 18, 2021, 10:45:39 AM
Quote from: Monty on May 18, 2021, 10:34:18 AM
Lower midtable, I'd argue. Only just beating 40 points. Not arguing that we've considerably improved this season overall, but this calendar year has been clearly inadequate.

Normally it'd be lower midtable but this season on all results since Christmas we're 11th so it's genuinely midtable form in context of the league. There is an anomaly that we've played more games than most in that period but given our own 2 week break and the clustering of games that created at times I think it's still pretty fair, especially given our 24 includes playing the top 2 home and away.

Nope, 13th actually.

Not sure where you're looking to get that but I gave very specific criteria of all games since Christmas and that gives you this:

https://www.statbunker.com/competitions/LeagueTable?comp_id=667&start_date=25-12-2020&end_date=01-06-2021&start_time=0&end_time=90 (https://www.statbunker.com/competitions/LeagueTable?comp_id=667&start_date=25-12-2020&end_date=01-06-2021&start_time=0&end_time=90)

I even said that there's a discrepancy in how many games we'd played compared to others so I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with.


Last 6 mathes - 18th
Last 10 matches - 18th
Last 12 matches - 18th
Last 15 matches - 17th
Last 20 matches - 14th
Last 23 matches - 15th

Whichever way you want to portray this its bloody dismal.

https://www.twtd.co.uk/league-tables/competition:premier-league/form/matches:20/type:home-and-away/

https://www.soccerstats.com/formtable.asp?league=england

Just as well the season is played over 38 then I guess. 

On that basis we're likely to be 11th.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Clampy on May 18, 2021, 12:40:23 PM
			

			

				Staying in the division was the most important thing last season. I wouldn't exactly call it an achivement. It was just what we needed to do and we did it.

I also don't see many people suggesting what we can do and can't do. I do see people saying things don't happen overnight. That's the difference.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Steve67 on May 18, 2021, 12:41:48 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: LeeB on May 18, 2021, 12:22:25 PM
It looks like some are disappointed that Dean hasn't overperformed. We're all impatient for success, but sometimes that in itself leads to mistakes.
I'm disappointed we haven't won much since Christmas, but we are absolutely going in the right direction. When we're not, then it's time to act.

Nice summary Lee.  

I think we had to spend money just to exist in this league, to survive,  I think it's what comes next is the biggest factor of Dean's reign.  He has done as well as he has been expected to, spent money, been supported = he has got us to where we probably should be.  Not under-performed, or over-performed but got us to a comfortable position.  I guess the 'how we got there' started well but turned a little sour during the second half of the season. What comes next, defines Dean as Aston Villa Manager and I think he deserves that crack.  I haven't enjoyed the second half of the season for large parts but I think that Dean deserves the respect and opportunity to continue until we stand still. At that point, we have to look at a more experienced, dare I say, better Manager than Dean who can take us on to the next step.  All of that said, if Villa parted company with Dean, I would not be in the slightest bit surprised. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: dave.woodhall on May 18, 2021, 12:43:30 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: john e on May 18, 2021, 12:34:44 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on May 18, 2021, 12:13:52 PM
Quote from: john e on May 18, 2021, 12:02:53 PM
Quote from: paul_e on May 18, 2021, 11:53:04 AM
Quote from: john e on May 18, 2021, 10:54:32 AM
But the new narrative now is ‘well we’ve improved this season, what did you expect‘
Well I expected more last season for a start 
Where we are now is where we should’ve been last year
I’ve heard all the excuses of why we aren’t and I’m not bothered it’s not a race to the bottom

I won't quote everything but this bit, for me, shows a lack of understanding of what happens to play off winners. Since the formation of the premier league well over half of teams promoted from the play offs have been relegated the next season. A team that finishes 3-6 in the championship is out of its depth in the premier league and the only way around that is to spend big on improving the squad but that comes with it's own dangers of "doing a Fulham" because you're going into a very competitive league with a squad that are still getting to know each other.

a play off team not going back down is always an achievement, history shows that clearly.


Like I’ve said before let’s start comparing ourselves with those who have and those who have attained better than the average rather than the race to the bottom which so many including yourself are so keen on 

Yes, let's ignore everything that doesn't fit in with your narrative. 

It is my narrative I hold my hands up
For years you me and others complained about Doig running Villa like the Cornershop never realising the potential never realising what could be achieved

Well it’s the same on here with a lot of people everyone telling us what we can’t do And why we can’t do it 
making excuses of why we haven’t
And then trying to pretend that’s scraping out of relegation by a single point not even winning our last game but relying on others to bail us out was in fact some great season 

It wasn’t it was Cornershop mentality



Nobody was saying that at all so don't try putting words into anyone's mouth, least of all mine. Last season was not "cornershop mentality" (whatever that might mean) and neither was it a great season. We achieved the primary aim of staying up. This season has been better, and again we achieved what was realistically the aim of mid-table. Next season the aim will be higher. Nobody is saying any different, nobody is making excuses.  
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: chrisw1 on May 18, 2021, 12:45:44 PM
			

			

				A lot of the discussions have been about our form over a sustained period of time Drummond, with some saying relegation form and others challenging it.

Those are the facts, no spin just plain statistics.  In my view they show us being in a terrible run of form and it's concerning the coaches haven't been able to find a way to get out of it.  Your view is that because we started well the fact that we've been playing like relegation candidates for a significant time doesn't matter and all will be well next season.  I hope you're right.  But any manager should rightly be scrutinised with a run of form like that.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: dave.woodhall on May 18, 2021, 12:52:28 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: chrisw1 on May 18, 2021, 12:45:44 PM
A lot of the discussions have been about our form over a sustained period of time Drummond, with some saying relegation form and others challenging it.

Those are the facts, no spin just plain statistics.  In my view they show us being in a terrible run of form and it's concerning the coaches haven't been able to find a way to get out of it.  Your view is that because we started well the fact that we've been playing like relegation candidates for a significant time doesn't matter and all will be well next season.  I hope you're right.  But any manager should rightly be scrutinised with a run of form like that.

And yet more than twenty years later, John Gregory is still hailed as a success on the back of Top At Christmas, with the rest of the season conveniently forgotten. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on May 18, 2021, 12:53:43 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: chrisw1 on May 18, 2021, 12:45:44 PM
A lot of the discussions have been about our form over a sustained period of time Drummond, with some saying relegation form and others challenging it.

Those are the facts, no spin just plain statistics.  In my view they show us being in a terrible run of form and it's concerning the coaches haven't been able to find a way to get out of it.  Your view is that because we started well the fact that we've been playing like relegation candidates for a significant time doesn't matter and all will be well next season.  I hope you're right.  But any manager should rightly be scrutinised with a run of form like that.

I know, I was just playing along. I know our form of late hasn't been great, we've given away too many points (see Sunday) but I still believe we're better than we were and are heading in the right direction. The argument about relegation form funnily enough coincides with the absence of one of the greats and the loan signing not getting back on form after injury. It all shows we need better players and just how far the division has moved on over the years we spent in decline.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on May 18, 2021, 12:54:20 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: john e on May 18, 2021, 12:34:44 PM
It is my narrative I hold my hands up
For years you me and others complained about Doig running Villa like the Cornershop never realising the potential never realising what could be achieved

Well it’s the same on here with a lot of people everyone telling us what we can’t do And why we can’t do it 
making excuses of why we haven’t
And then trying to pretend that’s scraping out of relegation by a single point not even winning our last game but relying on others to bail us out was in fact some great season 

It wasn’t it was Cornershop mentality

No one is saying we can't do things, people are saying that it's not under-performing that we haven't already done them. I think we'll be challenging for Europe next season and I think that's because we've done things in a good way for the last couple of years and focused on growing the team naturally and signing players that can grow and improve together. 2-3 years to establish ourselves after 10 years of shite isn't cornershop mentality, it's reality.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on May 18, 2021, 12:55:25 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: dave.woodhall on May 18, 2021, 12:43:30 PM
Quote from: john e on May 18, 2021, 12:34:44 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on May 18, 2021, 12:13:52 PM
Quote from: john e on May 18, 2021, 12:02:53 PM
Quote from: paul_e on May 18, 2021, 11:53:04 AM
Quote from: john e on May 18, 2021, 10:54:32 AM
But the new narrative now is ‘well we’ve improved this season, what did you expect‘
Well I expected more last season for a start 
Where we are now is where we should’ve been last year
I’ve heard all the excuses of why we aren’t and I’m not bothered it’s not a race to the bottom

I won't quote everything but this bit, for me, shows a lack of understanding of what happens to play off winners. Since the formation of the premier league well over half of teams promoted from the play offs have been relegated the next season. A team that finishes 3-6 in the championship is out of its depth in the premier league and the only way around that is to spend big on improving the squad but that comes with it's own dangers of "doing a Fulham" because you're going into a very competitive league with a squad that are still getting to know each other.

a play off team not going back down is always an achievement, history shows that clearly.


Like I’ve said before let’s start comparing ourselves with those who have and those who have attained better than the average rather than the race to the bottom which so many including yourself are so keen on 

Yes, let's ignore everything that doesn't fit in with your narrative. 

It is my narrative I hold my hands up
For years you me and others complained about Doig running Villa like the Cornershop never realising the potential never realising what could be achieved

Well it’s the same on here with a lot of people everyone telling us what we can’t do And why we can’t do it 
making excuses of why we haven’t
And then trying to pretend that’s scraping out of relegation by a single point not even winning our last game but relying on others to bail us out was in fact some great season 

It wasn’t it was Cornershop mentality



Nobody was saying that at all so don't try putting words into anyone's mouth, least of all mine. Last season was not "cornershop mentality" (whatever that might mean) and neither was it a great season. We achieved the primary aim of staying up. This season has been better, and again we achieved what was realistically the aim of mid-table. Next season the aim will be higher. Nobody is saying any different, nobody is making excuses.  

That’s your narrative
I’m saying too many excuses are being made all the time
You and others disagree that’s fine it’s a football forum that happens

I’m not calling for Dean Smith head I never have
But I do think we will need a better manager to take us into the top part of the Premier League just has all those teams that Drummond has showcased Had to do before they reached it as well

But at the moment there is no replacements For Dean Smith that are available or good enough so I’m happy for him to remain but he’s going to have to do far better than he has just lately 


			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: dave.woodhall on May 18, 2021, 12:57:39 PM
			

			

				It's not my 'narrative'. It's the truth. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on May 18, 2021, 01:06:51 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: chrisw1 on May 18, 2021, 12:45:44 PM
A lot of the discussions have been about our form over a sustained period of time Drummond, with some saying relegation form and others challenging it.

Those are the facts, no spin just plain statistics.  In my view they show us being in a terrible run of form and it's concerning the coaches haven't been able to find a way to get out of it.  Your view is that because we started well the fact that we've been playing like relegation candidates for a significant time doesn't matter and all will be well next season.  I hope you're right.  But any manager should rightly be scrutinised with a run of form like that.

but all the statistics started with you incorrectly claiming 4 wins in 24 games which wasn't true, I just pointed out that you were wrong. You've then thrown a bit of strop and changed your criteria so you can carry on moaning about things being shit.

Everyone knows the second half of the season has been disappointing but we all know, deep down, that 9-12 was about where we hoped/expected to finish this year and that's what will happen. So what if the wins that got us there came early in the season they don't mean any less. I think it's pretty obvious that our early season form was based around a core of 12-13 players who were on top of their game and has been disrupted by injuries and lack of form in that group. This summer will almost certainly mean that group grows to 16-17 players and form/injury problems for 2-3 of them at once will be easier to absorb. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Clive W on May 18, 2021, 01:07:56 PM
			

			

				The first objective of any promoted side is to stay promoted and not go straight down again

We achieved that

Then the next objective is to consolidate, improve and build a sustainable base

I think my maths is robust enough even at my age to conclude that finishing 11th is an improvement on 17th

And for the first time in goodness knows how many seasons I actually enjoyed my Xmas dinner without desperately looking for 3 teams worse than us 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: RamboandBruno on May 18, 2021, 01:10:12 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: john e on May 18, 2021, 10:54:32 AM
We have improved on last season
But last season was rubbish we were poor for most of it
I’ve never seen last season as a big achievement for Dean I thought we were clinging on for dear life when we should’ve been further up the table anyway

But the new narrative now is ‘well we’ve improved this season, what did you expect‘
Well I expected more last season for a start 
Where we are now is where we should’ve been last year
I’ve heard all the excuses of why we aren’t and I’m not bothered it’s not a race to the bottom

Why don’t we start looking positively and believe in what we can do rather than what we can’t do
Why don’t we start posting stuff about Where we want to be and not why we can’t get there

Someone says that be Bielsa has done a better job in his first season in the prem and there’s A bunch load of people telling us why he has and why Dean couldn’t
I don’t give a fuck I’m not interested in excuses
I’m just interested in us being where we should be with the outlay the squad and the set up
And right now it’s not good enough

We should’ve been out of the championship first time of asking But we employ useless managers until Dean came
We were the Man City of that league without the competition of Chelsea Man United Liverpool etc
We literally should’ve pissed it

Last season we were big spenders I know we renewed the squad but we aren’t Sheffield United Fulham West Brom, bournemouth Norwich or Watford yet we played like them and acted like them

We’ve got to start being more positive about the future and not making excuses for the failings of the past
And for me last season was a failing, And the second half of this season has been to

Let’s not use underperforming as the new standard to improve on 
we need higher standards than that

But John, it’s not being negative to suggest we have improved over the last couple of years and will keep on improving. I also don’t think it’s particularly positive to say we should of been out of the championship first time, based on what exactly, the 6 years previous to that of mis-management when we’d been circling the drain, the assessment that we should of been promoted at first time of asking is based on the name of Aston Villa and nothing more as far as I can see.
We got promoted with (and all due to respect to them) a team and squad filled out with journeymen past their journeymen best, Hutton, Whealen, Jedinak, Elphick, Adomah, Hourihane to a much lesser extent and loanees in Abraham and Tuanzebe. I had us optimistically finishing about 15th knowing nothing about a lot of the players we bought in the summer of 2019. 
It’s not negative to be positive about Smith and what he’s done to date, it’s not negative to say despite the disappointing fizzling out in 2021, we are in a much better place than we have been probably since 2009 at least. 
I’m sure we all want massive success now, right this minute, but who does life work like that for. Even Man City with their oil money didn’t start winning leagues or even trophies in the first year or two. 
If things go pear shaped next season or there is no progression, I would get the annoyance and frustration but not at the moment, that’s just me personally. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on May 18, 2021, 01:13:40 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: RamboandBruno on May 18, 2021, 01:10:12 PM
But John, it’s not being negative to suggest we have improved over the last couple of years and will keep on improving. I also don’t think it’s particularly positive to say we should of been out of the championship first time, based on what exactly, the 6 years previous to that of mid management when we’d been circling the drain, the assessment that we should of been promoted at first time of asking is based on the name of Aston Villa and nothing more as far as I can see.
We got promoted with (and all due to respect to them) a team and squad filled out with journeymen past their journeymen best, Hutton, Whealen, Jedinak, Elphick, Adonai, Hourihane to a much lesser extent and loanees in Abraham and Tuanzebe. I had us optimistically finishing about 15th knowing nothing about a lot of the players we bought in the summer of 2019. 
It’s not negative to be positive about Smith and what he’s done to date, it’s not negative to say despite the disappointing fizzling out in 2021, we are in a much better place than we have been probably since 2009 at least. 
I’m sure we all want massive success now, right this minute, but who does life work like that for. Even Man City with their oil money didn’t start winning leagues or even trophies in the first year or two. 
If things go pear shaped next season or there is no progression, I would get the annoyance and frustration but not at the moment, that’s just me personally. 

It's just took me far too long to translate that to Adomah than I'm happy with.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: chrisw1 on May 18, 2021, 01:14:21 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: paul_e on May 18, 2021, 01:06:51 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on May 18, 2021, 12:45:44 PM
A lot of the discussions have been about our form over a sustained period of time Drummond, with some saying relegation form and others challenging it.

Those are the facts, no spin just plain statistics.  In my view they show us being in a terrible run of form and it's concerning the coaches haven't been able to find a way to get out of it.  Your view is that because we started well the fact that we've been playing like relegation candidates for a significant time doesn't matter and all will be well next season.  I hope you're right.  But any manager should rightly be scrutinised with a run of form like that.

but all the statistics started with you incorrectly claiming 4 wins in 24 games which wasn't true, I just pointed out that you were wrong. You've then thrown a bit of strop and changed your criteria so you can carry on moaning about things being shit.

Everyone knows the second half of the season has been disappointing but we all know, deep down, that 9-12 was about where we hoped/expected to finish this year and that's what will happen. So what if the wins that got us there came early in the season they don't mean any less. I think it's pretty obvious that our early season form was based around a core of 12-13 players who were on top of their game and has been disrupted by injuries and lack of form in that group. This summer will almost certainly mean that group grows to 16-17 players and form/injury problems for 2-3 of them at once will be easier to absorb. 
I haven't thrown a strop - so fuck off with that comment.  I said a while back I'd counted incorrectly - not that it really changes the picture.   You and Risso were discusing form tables I just thought I'd highlight the actual stats rather than skewed tables where we'd played 2 or 3 more games than some other teams.  People can draw their own conclusions on whether the form is a problem or not, but to be honest over the last 10-15 games it's even worse than I'd realised.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on May 18, 2021, 01:18:38 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: LeeB on May 18, 2021, 12:22:25 PM
It looks like some are disappointed that Dean hasn't overperformed. We're all impatient for success, but sometimes that in itself leads to mistakes.
I'm disappointed we haven't won much since Christmas, but we are absolutely going in the right direction. When we're not, then it's time to act.

Smith said he wanted to finish top half, we're not going to.

He said we always finish the season strongly, well not this time we're not.

He also said it was important for a strong end to the season to take some momentum into next season, and doesn't look like that's going to happen either.  

Over the last 20 or so games we've got the same amount of points as Steve Bruce and Newcastle.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Smithy on May 18, 2021, 01:20:47 PM
			

			

				If we had started the season with Jack unfit and out of the side, and our first half of the season had been like our second, but then Jack had come back and our second half had been like our first, I guarantee we'd all be feeling much more positive about the future.

The reality is we've not been anywhere near as good in the second half of the season. Jack's injury has played a part.  The form of the players who WERE fit has played a part. The manager and the coaching staff have played a part.  BUT - I don't see how anyone can call the season anything other than progress given we'll have gone from 17th to 11th?

Is the progress slower than we'd like? Sure. Would we all prefer to be challenging for Europe places this late in the season? Definitely.  But it's STILL progress.

If we start next season the way we've ended this one, then yes, Dean will be under immense pressure, but I'm still confident with a couple of decent additions our fit first 11 will give anyone a good game and we'll be in the mix for European places.

The moment we have plateaued without becoming title challengers, or worse, have gone backwards, THEN it will be the time to look elsewhere.  But we're not there yet, and we never be.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on May 18, 2021, 01:23:06 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: chrisw1 on May 18, 2021, 01:14:21 PM
Quote from: paul_e on May 18, 2021, 01:06:51 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on May 18, 2021, 12:45:44 PM
A lot of the discussions have been about our form over a sustained period of time Drummond, with some saying relegation form and others challenging it.

Those are the facts, no spin just plain statistics.  In my view they show us being in a terrible run of form and it's concerning the coaches haven't been able to find a way to get out of it.  Your view is that because we started well the fact that we've been playing like relegation candidates for a significant time doesn't matter and all will be well next season.  I hope you're right.  But any manager should rightly be scrutinised with a run of form like that.

but all the statistics started with you incorrectly claiming 4 wins in 24 games which wasn't true, I just pointed out that you were wrong. You've then thrown a bit of strop and changed your criteria so you can carry on moaning about things being shit.

Everyone knows the second half of the season has been disappointing but we all know, deep down, that 9-12 was about where we hoped/expected to finish this year and that's what will happen. So what if the wins that got us there came early in the season they don't mean any less. I think it's pretty obvious that our early season form was based around a core of 12-13 players who were on top of their game and has been disrupted by injuries and lack of form in that group. This summer will almost certainly mean that group grows to 16-17 players and form/injury problems for 2-3 of them at once will be easier to absorb. 
I haven't thrown a strop - so fuck off with that comment.  I said a while back I'd counted incorrectly - not that it really changes the picture.   You and Risso were discusing form tables I just thought I'd highlight the actual stats rather than skewed tables where we'd played 2 or 3 more games than some other teams.  People can draw their own conclusions on whether the form is a problem or not, but to be honest over the last 10-15 games it's even worse than I'd realised.

Touchy as ever. As I said, you made a claim which was highly inaccurate, I corrected it so you decided to throw out a load more numbers that I can't be bothered to check rather than accept that you were wrong in the first place.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: RamboandBruno on May 18, 2021, 01:23:56 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: paul_e on May 18, 2021, 01:13:40 PM
Quote from: RamboandBruno on May 18, 2021, 01:10:12 PM
But John, it’s not being negative to suggest we have improved over the last couple of years and will keep on improving. I also don’t think it’s particularly positive to say we should of been out of the championship first time, based on what exactly, the 6 years previous to that of mid management when we’d been circling the drain, the assessment that we should of been promoted at first time of asking is based on the name of Aston Villa and nothing more as far as I can see.
We got promoted with (and all due to respect to them) a team and squad filled out with journeymen past their journeymen best, Hutton, Whealen, Jedinak, Elphick, Adonai, Hourihane to a much lesser extent and loanees in Abraham and Tuanzebe. I had us optimistically finishing about 15th knowing nothing about a lot of the players we bought in the summer of 2019. 
It’s not negative to be positive about Smith and what he’s done to date, it’s not negative to say despite the disappointing fizzling out in 2021, we are in a much better place than we have been probably since 2009 at least. 
I’m sure we all want massive success now, right this minute, but who does life work like that for. Even Man City with their oil money didn’t start winning leagues or even trophies in the first year or two. 
If things go pear shaped next season or there is no progression, I would get the annoyance and frustration but not at the moment, that’s just me personally. 

It's just took me far too long to translate that to Adomah than I'm happy with.

Predictive text grrrr, I’ve modified it
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on May 18, 2021, 01:29:08 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on May 18, 2021, 01:18:38 PM
Quote from: LeeB on May 18, 2021, 12:22:25 PM
It looks like some are disappointed that Dean hasn't overperformed. We're all impatient for success, but sometimes that in itself leads to mistakes.
I'm disappointed we haven't won much since Christmas, but we are absolutely going in the right direction. When we're not, then it's time to act.

Smith said he wanted to finish top half, we're not going to.

He said we always finish the season strongly, well not this time we're not.

He also said it was important for a strong end to the season to take some momentum into next season, and doesn't look like that's going to happen either.  

Over the last 20 or so games we've got the same amount of points as Steve Bruce and Newcastle.

Steve Bruce who got manager of the month for April?

Again the 2nd half of the season has been disappointing, everyone knows that but over the course of the season there's a hell of a lot more positives than negatives is all people are saying. If, as you're suggesting, the season in the last few months carries into next season then Smith will be sacked, everyone knows that, but given the stories coming out regarding the summer so far I don't think it's reasonable to assume that will happen so lets wait and see.

Smith needs to improve to get where we want to be that's clear but in his time with us he has shown he has the ability to step up and improve every year, as has the squad so for many people he's earned the trust to 'go again'.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: chrisw1 on May 18, 2021, 01:42:05 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: paul_e on May 18, 2021, 01:23:06 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on May 18, 2021, 01:14:21 PM
Quote from: paul_e on May 18, 2021, 01:06:51 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on May 18, 2021, 12:45:44 PM
A lot of the discussions have been about our form over a sustained period of time Drummond, with some saying relegation form and others challenging it.

Those are the facts, no spin just plain statistics.  In my view they show us being in a terrible run of form and it's concerning the coaches haven't been able to find a way to get out of it.  Your view is that because we started well the fact that we've been playing like relegation candidates for a significant time doesn't matter and all will be well next season.  I hope you're right.  But any manager should rightly be scrutinised with a run of form like that.

but all the statistics started with you incorrectly claiming 4 wins in 24 games which wasn't true, I just pointed out that you were wrong. You've then thrown a bit of strop and changed your criteria so you can carry on moaning about things being shit.

Everyone knows the second half of the season has been disappointing but we all know, deep down, that 9-12 was about where we hoped/expected to finish this year and that's what will happen. So what if the wins that got us there came early in the season they don't mean any less. I think it's pretty obvious that our early season form was based around a core of 12-13 players who were on top of their game and has been disrupted by injuries and lack of form in that group. This summer will almost certainly mean that group grows to 16-17 players and form/injury problems for 2-3 of them at once will be easier to absorb. 
I haven't thrown a strop - so fuck off with that comment.  I said a while back I'd counted incorrectly - not that it really changes the picture.   You and Risso were discusing form tables I just thought I'd highlight the actual stats rather than skewed tables where we'd played 2 or 3 more games than some other teams.  People can draw their own conclusions on whether the form is a problem or not, but to be honest over the last 10-15 games it's even worse than I'd realised.

Touchy as ever. As I said, you made a claim which was highly inaccurate, I corrected it so you decided to throw out a load more numbers that I can't be bothered to check rather than accept that you were wrong in the first place.
I had already ammended it to 26 wins in 24 mathes including the cup game before you came in on your white charger.
I hadn't responded to your post at all so I'm not sure where the 'strop' claim came from, it was unnecessary but true to form for you.
As you and Risso couldn't agree on the best table I gave you facts over specific numbers of games, not tables where we'd played 2 or 3 more games than some other teams.  I even gave you the links to check. Go on just think of the joy you'll have if you find an error in the website algorithm.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Mister E on May 18, 2021, 01:59:32 PM
			

			

				All we need now is Footy coming in and declaring "In Dean we trust!"
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on May 18, 2021, 02:19:51 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: chrisw1 on May 18, 2021, 01:42:05 PM
I had already ammended it to 26 wins in 24 mathes including the cup game before you came in on your white charger.
I hadn't responded to your post at all so I'm not sure where the 'strop' claim came from, it was unnecessary but true to form for you.
As you and Risso couldn't agree on the best table I gave you facts over specific numbers of games, not tables where we'd played 2 or 3 more games than some other teams.  I even gave you the links to check. Go on just think of the joy you'll have if you find an error in the website algorithm.

You included a cup game where our under 18s played a full strength Liverpool team, not only does that have nothing to do with our league form it was kids who gave a fantastic account of themselves. 7 in 24 in the league is a fact.

Me and Risso weren't debating anything, I did a very basic lookup of a table since Christmas and made it clear that's what I'd posted and he called it wrong, which it wasn't.

Oh and you definitely did reply to me with a list of form tables in reply which was you shifting the goalposts.

Again though, we've never been in any danger of being drawn into the relegation battle because even our poor form hasn't been poor enough to to undo the good results early on. We're a young side who many were predicting to go down before the season started and we quickly proved that very wrong. It's a shame we couldn't maintain that form but there are a number of reasons for it and a lot of those can be addressed this summer and we can go into next season with real hope of playing at our best but being in a better place to maintain it. That matters much more to me than our form table in a period where we've played a bunch of games that we never do well in
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on May 18, 2021, 02:20:50 PM
			

			

				Heard Dean on the radio earlier.

Said there's no reason to downplay expectations for next season and we want to be finishing well in the top half.

Felt injuries to key players had disrupted us at key point this season which is why we've dropped out of top half.

Accepted we'd struggled to work out how to adapt to no Grealish for first 5-6 games of his injury. Said we'd been better in recent weeks and I agreed with him (although he used the expected goals metric....)

I think when the manager of the club is really bigging up next season then don't think people on here should get criticised too much for wanting 8th or 7th as that will be club target for next year by all accounts.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on May 18, 2021, 02:26:03 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: SoccerHQ on May 18, 2021, 02:20:50 PM
Heard Dean on the radio earlier.

Said there's no reason to downplay expectations for next season and we want to be finishing well in the top half.

Felt injuries to key players had disrupted us at key point this season which is why we've dropped out of top half.

Accepted we'd struggled to work out how to adapt to no Grealish for first 5-6 games of his injury. Said we'd been better in recent weeks and I agreed with him (although he used the expected goals metric....)

I think when the manager of the club is really bigging up next season then don't think people on here should get criticised too much for wanting 8th or 7th as that will be club target for next year by all accounts.

First 5 games after Jack's injury - 5 points
Next 9 games, inluding Jack being back for 2 of them as sub - 8 points

The bloke's an idiot.



			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Monty on May 18, 2021, 02:28:18 PM
			

			

				Blimey, bit harsh. He might be talking out of his arse, or he might argue we played better and were less lucky (with harder fixtures). Either way, not sure 'idiot' need cover it.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on May 18, 2021, 02:34:38 PM
			

			

				Better in recent weeks though, we've been absolute toilet. 2 wins in 12 games, 1 in 7.  Bruce was rightly called out for spouting similar nonsense, don't see why Smith should get a pass when he does the same.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Monty on May 18, 2021, 02:36:23 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on May 18, 2021, 02:34:38 PM
Better in recent weeks though, we've been absolute toilet. 2 wins in 12 games, 1 in 7.  Bruce was rightly called out for spouting similar nonsense, don't see why Smith should get a pass when he does the same.

Sure, I favour the talking-from-arse interpretation. Doesn't necessarily make him an idiot though.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on May 18, 2021, 02:39:04 PM
			

			

				but as the post says he's saying based on performance metrics rather than results. Trusting the analysis doesn't make him an idiot, it just means that he's seeing things from a different perspective.


			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: RamboandBruno on May 18, 2021, 02:44:49 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on May 18, 2021, 02:26:03 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on May 18, 2021, 02:20:50 PM
Heard Dean on the radio earlier.

Said there's no reason to downplay expectations for next season and we want to be finishing well in the top half.

Felt injuries to key players had disrupted us at key point this season which is why we've dropped out of top half.

Accepted we'd struggled to work out how to adapt to no Grealish for first 5-6 games of his injury. Said we'd been better in recent weeks and I agreed with him (although he used the expected goals metric....)

I think when the manager of the club is really bigging up next season then don't think people on here should get criticised too much for wanting 8th or 7th as that will be club target for next year by all accounts.

First 5 games after Jack's injury - 5 points
Next 9 games, inluding Jack being back for 2 of them as sub - 8 points

The bloke's an idiot.

Very harsh. The teams we played immediately after jacks injury were more beatable on paper at least than those recently. The performances largely have been better in the last few weeks that say sheff Utd and Newcastle away, if not the results. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on May 18, 2021, 02:56:35 PM
			

			

				We've averaging nearly two goals a game conceded lately, conceding far too may chances for the opposition and chances created by us have dried right up. So even if you ignore the only real "metric" that matters, ie points, the rest are garbage as well.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on May 18, 2021, 02:59:58 PM
			

			

				I'm interested, to know if anyone wants him sacked before the start of next season. My interpretation of some of the language used suggests so.

I don't deny our form hasn't been great recently but he has proven how good it can be. With better players as we'll surely buy in the summer we should be looking top 8 next season. If we don't buy a central midfielder and more creativity up front/on the wing I think we'll be hard pressed to improve. 


			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on May 18, 2021, 03:01:12 PM
			

			

				The thing is, if we had secured more points from winning positions we would not be having this debate.
This is for me the big issue regarding Smiths management ability. This w
Has been a constant over the last 2 seasons.

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on May 18, 2021, 03:01:19 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on May 18, 2021, 02:56:35 PM
We've averaging nearly two goals a game conceded lately, conceding far too may chances for the opposition and chances created by us have dried right up. So even if you ignore the only real "metric" that matters, ie points, the rest are garbage as well.

Without looking up stats for mid-table teams in the last few weeks of a season, I'd hazard a guess that our form and frailty in that regard is pretty common. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: algy on May 18, 2021, 03:01:49 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: paul_e on May 18, 2021, 11:53:04 AM
Quote from: john e on May 18, 2021, 10:54:32 AM
But the new narrative now is ‘well we’ve improved this season, what did you expect‘
Well I expected more last season for a start 
Where we are now is where we should’ve been last year
I’ve heard all the excuses of why we aren’t and I’m not bothered it’s not a race to the bottom

I won't quote everything but this bit, for me, shows a lack of understanding of what happens to play off winners. Since the formation of the premier league well over half of teams promoted from the play offs have been relegated the next season. A team that finishes 3-6 in the championship is out of its depth in the premier league and the only way around that is to spend big on improving the squad but that comes with it's own dangers of "doing a Fulham" because you're going into a very competitive league with a squad that are still getting to know each other.

a play off team not going back down is always an achievement, history shows that clearly.
Also I'd add, last season we spent a lot, but it was spread out over a large number of players (didn't it average about £10m per player?  Which in Premier League terms is peanuts).

Think it's always worth judging the squad based on who the worst players are in it, and who the middling players are.  Last season, that's probably the likes of Jota or Henri Lansbury - both utterly useless at this level.  Conor Hourihane was probably one of the middling players in that squad, a player who most people agree is somewhere in that too-good-for-the-championship zone.  Basically we had a squad mostly of good Championship players, with a handful of players who were Premier League standard.

Then this season.  Our worst players now are probably the remnants of the Championship squad (Elmo, Taylor), plus a couple of the budget buys from the season before (Marv, Trez).  All can and have done a job at PL level, and would be really standout players in the Championship.  Our middling players are probably Ross Barkley, Morgan Sanson, El Goalzie, Bertie Traore - all players who are good enough on their day, but have varying degrees of inconsistency.

I'd expect this summer, we're shipping off the last of the players who have a hint of 'relegation battle' about them.  We're pushing the inconsistent players down to being ones we don't need to call upon regularly, and making the middle tier of players look like ones who can consistently do a job at this level even if they don't always excel - thinking John McGinn in particular there.

I dunno, it just feels to me like we're moving forward, the squad overall is definitely getting stronger, and we're not losing any of our better players at the moment -- we're getting rid of the players we want to get rid of, and that to me suggests that probably Dean is the right person for the job since he'll be a huge influence in keeping them at the club & happy.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on May 18, 2021, 03:03:55 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Drummond on May 18, 2021, 02:59:58 PM
I'm interested, to know if anyone wants him sacked before the start of next season. My interpretation of some of the language used suggests so.

I don't deny our form hasn't been great recently but he has proven how good it can be. With better players as we'll surely buy in the summer we should be looking top 8 next season. If we don't buy a central midfielder and more creativity up front/on the wing I think we'll be hard pressed to improve. 


I wouldn't get rid of him to bring in somebody like Dyche or Howe, no, but I'd love to see a big hitter appointed to really try to shift us forward more quickly.  Smith has been lucky to inherit a freak of nature like Grealish, but without him we seem completely devoid of ideas, and I don't think Smith is the bloke to attract the sort of big names we need.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Toronto Villa on May 18, 2021, 03:09:09 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on May 18, 2021, 03:03:55 PM
Quote from: Drummond on May 18, 2021, 02:59:58 PM
I'm interested, to know if anyone wants him sacked before the start of next season. My interpretation of some of the language used suggests so.

I don't deny our form hasn't been great recently but he has proven how good it can be. With better players as we'll surely buy in the summer we should be looking top 8 next season. If we don't buy a central midfielder and more creativity up front/on the wing I think we'll be hard pressed to improve. 


I wouldn't get rid of him to bring in somebody like Dyche or Howe, no, but I'd love to see a big hitter appointed to really try to shift us forward more quickly.  Smith has been lucky to inherit a freak of nature like Grealish, but without him we seem completely devoid of ideas, and I don't think Smith is the bloke to attract the sort of big names we need.

I hope that the players we are going after would be able to flourish under a better manager should one be needed and/or appointed. For too long we bought players specific to the manager. The one thing I have been impressed with at Leicester is that players bought since they won the title have been for the most part quality footballers and now with a better manager they have improved further. With the likes of Martinez, Konsa, Watkins, Cash, Targett as examples they will do well with Smith or anyone else for that matter. We need to keep getting in players of that level and better to progress.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: sickbeggar on May 18, 2021, 03:10:57 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Drummond on May 18, 2021, 02:59:58 PM
I'm interested, to know if anyone wants him sacked before the start of next season. My interpretation of some of the language used suggests so.

I don't deny our form hasn't been great recently but he has proven how good it can be. With better players as we'll surely buy in the summer we should be looking top 8 next season. If we don't buy a central midfielder and more creativity up front/on the wing I think we'll be hard pressed to improve.

I don't. Lots of areas of criticism of him or his coaching/tactics is valid though, except hopefully its part of the learning curve for Smith.  I hate this line because I've disagreed with it lots of times in the past, but who is there better at the moment? If the club decided to spend 200m this summer to go for a CL place and wanted a "name" manager then I could understand their thinking in changing him. If they gave him 200m anyway and he struggled then I would understand them sacking him as well. But I look at our squad and its not a top5 squad and if every transfer Smith had made had come off I still don't think it would be a top5 squad.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on May 18, 2021, 03:18:29 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on May 18, 2021, 03:03:55 PM
Quote from: Drummond on May 18, 2021, 02:59:58 PM
I'm interested, to know if anyone wants him sacked before the start of next season. My interpretation of some of the language used suggests so.

I don't deny our form hasn't been great recently but he has proven how good it can be. With better players as we'll surely buy in the summer we should be looking top 8 next season. If we don't buy a central midfielder and more creativity up front/on the wing I think we'll be hard pressed to improve. 


I wouldn't get rid of him to bring in somebody like Dyche or Howe, no, but I'd love to see a big hitter appointed to really try to shift us forward more quickly.  Smith has been lucky to inherit a freak of nature like Grealish, but without him we seem completely devoid of ideas, and I don't think Smith is the bloke to attract the sort of big names we need.

We'd all like to move forward more quickly, it's been far too long since we truly challenged. If Smith continues with the momentum he's had so far we'll be top 6 next season. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on May 18, 2021, 03:22:16 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: sickbeggar on May 18, 2021, 03:10:57 PM
Quote from: Drummond on May 18, 2021, 02:59:58 PM
I'm interested, to know if anyone wants him sacked before the start of next season. My interpretation of some of the language used suggests so.

I don't deny our form hasn't been great recently but he has proven how good it can be. With better players as we'll surely buy in the summer we should be looking top 8 next season. If we don't buy a central midfielder and more creativity up front/on the wing I think we'll be hard pressed to improve.

I don't. Lots of areas of criticism of him or his coaching/tactics is valid though, except hopefully its part of the learning curve for Smith.  I hate this line because I've disagreed with it lots of times in the past, but who is there better at the moment? If the club decided to spend 200m this summer to go for a CL place and wanted a "name" manager then I could understand their thinking in changing him. If they gave him 200m anyway and he struggled then I would understand them sacking him as well. But I look at our squad and its not a top5 squad and if every transfer Smith had made had come off I still don't think it would be a top5 squad.

I agree, he has got things wrong, doesn't every manager? He's got a lot right too, but that appears to be glossed over.

He keeps moving us up the table and we can then attract better players. If course a couple of better results of late could have had us pushing for Top 8 and there's bound to be some disappointment that we've dropped off the pace a bit. New and better players will help too. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on May 18, 2021, 03:24:40 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Drummond on May 18, 2021, 03:22:16 PM
I agree, he has got things wrong, doesn't every manager? He's got a lot right too, but that appears to be glossed over.

He keeps moving us up the table and we can then attract better players. If course a couple of better results of late could have had us pushing for Top 8 and there's bound to be some disappointment that we've dropped off the pace a bit. New and better players will help too. 

We've more than dropped off the pace a bit. The second half of this season has been very nearly as bad as the second half of last season, and we didn't have Martinez or Watkins then.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on May 18, 2021, 03:29:17 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on May 18, 2021, 03:24:40 PM
Quote from: Drummond on May 18, 2021, 03:22:16 PM
I agree, he has got things wrong, doesn't every manager? He's got a lot right too, but that appears to be glossed over.

He keeps moving us up the table and we can then attract better players. If course a couple of better results of late could have had us pushing for Top 8 and there's bound to be some disappointment that we've dropped off the pace a bit. New and better players will help too. 

We've more than dropped off the pace a bit. The second half of this season has been very nearly as bad as the second half of last season, and we didn't have Martinez or Watkins then.

So is the first half of the season the minimum we should have expected or were we punching above our weight?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: LeeB on May 18, 2021, 03:32:23 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on May 18, 2021, 03:03:55 PM
Quote from: Drummond on May 18, 2021, 02:59:58 PM
I'm interested, to know if anyone wants him sacked before the start of next season. My interpretation of some of the language used suggests so.

I don't deny our form hasn't been great recently but he has proven how good it can be. With better players as we'll surely buy in the summer we should be looking top 8 next season. If we don't buy a central midfielder and more creativity up front/on the wing I think we'll be hard pressed to improve. 


I wouldn't get rid of him to bring in somebody like Dyche or Howe, no, but I'd love to see a big hitter appointed to really try to shift us forward more quickly.  Smith has been lucky to inherit a freak of nature like Grealish, but without him we seem completely devoid of ideas, and I don't think Smith is the bloke to attract the sort of big names we need.

Everton have the biggest profile of manager we or anybody in our position could possibly get, yet it doesn't seem to have made much difference. I'd had a look around their forum after the last couple of games and most of them were bemoaning that despite expensive signings and a top coach there was no clear idea of how they were set up to play, unlike their opponents.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: hipkiss92 on May 18, 2021, 03:35:30 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on May 18, 2021, 03:24:40 PM
Quote from: Drummond on May 18, 2021, 03:22:16 PM
I agree, he has got things wrong, doesn't every manager? He's got a lot right too, but that appears to be glossed over.

He keeps moving us up the table and we can then attract better players. If course a couple of better results of late could have had us pushing for Top 8 and there's bound to be some disappointment that we've dropped off the pace a bit. New and better players will help too. 

We've more than dropped off the pace a bit. The second half of this season has been very nearly as bad as the second half of last season, and we didn't have Martinez or Watkins then.

If my sums are right, we've taken 23 points in the last 22 games. If we'd have done that last year we probably wouldn't have spent the last year hearing about hawkeye being the only that kept us up.

We're effectively at a point now where 20/21 Aston Villa without Grealish = 19/20 Aston Villa with Grealish, which is an improvement.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: chrisw1 on May 18, 2021, 03:42:55 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Drummond on May 18, 2021, 02:59:58 PM
I'm interested, to know if anyone wants him sacked before the start of next season. My interpretation of some of the language used suggests so.

I don't deny our form hasn't been great recently but he has proven how good it can be. With better players as we'll surely buy in the summer we should be looking top 8 next season. If we don't buy a central midfielder and more creativity up front/on the wing I think we'll be hard pressed to improve. 


I don't want him sacked right now, but if an exciting alternative became available I'd want to seriously consider it.

I'd absolutely love Smith to be a big long term success, but I am struggling to get over the fact that we've been poor for such long spells in both his seasons in the top flight.  I get that there are mitigating circumstances, but notwithstanding petty arguments over sematics, my eye test tells me we've been playing like a relegation team for a long time now.  If we start poorly next season I wouldn't be waiting long to pull the trigger.  I've got mixed feelings about giving him the summer if we're going to spend big, but given we have a recruitiment team leading the strategy it probably isn't too much of a problem.

I think I'm mainly just so frustrated about what a fantastic opportunity we've blown this season.  Yes we're staying up and yes I'd have taken 11th, but we only had to have an average second half of the season and we'd have put ourselves in a much stronger position to attract players, retain Jack and really kick on.  It's a reasonable placing, but feels like a failure.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: sickbeggar on May 18, 2021, 03:51:42 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: chrisw1 on May 18, 2021, 03:42:55 PM
Quote from: Drummond on May 18, 2021, 02:59:58 PM
I'm interested, to know if anyone wants him sacked before the start of next season. My interpretation of some of the language used suggests so.

I don't deny our form hasn't been great recently but he has proven how good it can be. With better players as we'll surely buy in the summer we should be looking top 8 next season. If we don't buy a central midfielder and more creativity up front/on the wing I think we'll be hard pressed to improve. 


I don't want him sacked right now, but if an exciting alternative became available I'd want to seriously consider it.

I'd absolutely love Smith to be a big long term success, but I am struggling to get over the fact that we've been poor for such long spells in both his seasons in the top flight.  I get that there are mitigating circumstances, but notwithstanding petty arguments over sematics, my eye test tells me we've been playing like a relegation team for a long time now.  If we start poorly next season I wouldn't be waiting long to pull the trigger.  I've got mixed feelings about giving him the summer if we're going to spend big, but given we have a recruitiment team leading the strategy it probably isn't too much of a problem.

I think I'm mainly just so frustrated about what a fantastic opportunity we've blown this season.  Yes we're staying up and yes I'd have taken 11th, but we only had to have an average second half of the season and we'd have put ourselves in a much stronger position to attract players, retain Jack and really kick on.  It's a reasonable placing, but feels like a failure.

Who is this exciting alternative though. I'm not saying that so you can pick a name and I can rubbish it. I just don't see one. The likes of the top managers are out of our reach, and the days of any foreign name being an automatic preferable option is long gone when you see how many have failed over here. I just don't see a long list of options. That's not to say they couldn't do better than Smith
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Brazilian Villain on May 18, 2021, 03:59:00 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: sickbeggar on May 18, 2021, 03:51:42 PM
Who is this exciting alternative though. I'm not saying that so you can pick a name and I can rubbish it. I just don't see one. The likes of the top managers are out of our reach, and the days of any foreign name being an automatic preferable option is long gone when you see how many have failed over here. I just don't see a long list of options. That's not to say they couldn't do better than Smith

Isn't his name Dino Ferrari in Italian? Sounds more exciting already although maybe you're not a fan of Ferraris either.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: chrisw1 on May 18, 2021, 03:59:57 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: sickbeggar on May 18, 2021, 03:51:42 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on May 18, 2021, 03:42:55 PM
Quote from: Drummond on May 18, 2021, 02:59:58 PM
I'm interested, to know if anyone wants him sacked before the start of next season. My interpretation of some of the language used suggests so.

I don't deny our form hasn't been great recently but he has proven how good it can be. With better players as we'll surely buy in the summer we should be looking top 8 next season. If we don't buy a central midfielder and more creativity up front/on the wing I think we'll be hard pressed to improve. 


I don't want him sacked right now, but if an exciting alternative became available I'd want to seriously consider it.

I'd absolutely love Smith to be a big long term success, but I am struggling to get over the fact that we've been poor for such long spells in both his seasons in the top flight.  I get that there are mitigating circumstances, but notwithstanding petty arguments over sematics, my eye test tells me we've been playing like a relegation team for a long time now.  If we start poorly next season I wouldn't be waiting long to pull the trigger.  I've got mixed feelings about giving him the summer if we're going to spend big, but given we have a recruitiment team leading the strategy it probably isn't too much of a problem.

I think I'm mainly just so frustrated about what a fantastic opportunity we've blown this season.  Yes we're staying up and yes I'd have taken 11th, but we only had to have an average second half of the season and we'd have put ourselves in a much stronger position to attract players, retain Jack and really kick on.  It's a reasonable placing, but feels like a failure.

Who is this exciting alternative though. I'm not saying that so you can pick a name and I can rubbish it. I just don't see one. The likes of the top managers are out of our reach, and the days of any foreign name being an automatic preferable option is long gone when you see how many have failed over here. I just don't see a long list of options. That's not to say they couldn't do better than Smith
I agree.  I can't see any realistic alternatives right now.  With that said, it's not my job to scour the market for them.  But if, hypothetically, say Poch or Rodgers was available then yes I'd be tempted.

Hopefully we'll start next season on fire and all this worry will have proven pointless. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Monty on May 18, 2021, 04:01:09 PM
			

			

				Dino Fabbro.

I do hate this British vs. 'Foreign' divide. How about how many succeed in England? Remind me how many English managers have won the Premier League?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: sickbeggar on May 18, 2021, 04:04:30 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Brazilian Villain on May 18, 2021, 03:59:00 PM
Quote from: sickbeggar on May 18, 2021, 03:51:42 PM
Who is this exciting alternative though. I'm not saying that so you can pick a name and I can rubbish it. I just don't see one. The likes of the top managers are out of our reach, and the days of any foreign name being an automatic preferable option is long gone when you see how many have failed over here. I just don't see a long list of options. That's not to say they couldn't do better than Smith

Isn't his name Dino Ferrari in Italian? Sounds more exciting already although maybe you're not a fan of Ferraris either.

I used to work not far from the Ferrari factory and one of our customer's perks was going round the Ferrari factory. meh, I prefer a car you can fit in. ;)
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: sickbeggar on May 18, 2021, 04:06:31 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: chrisw1 on May 18, 2021, 03:59:57 PM
Quote from: sickbeggar on May 18, 2021, 03:51:42 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on May 18, 2021, 03:42:55 PM
Quote from: Drummond on May 18, 2021, 02:59:58 PM
I'm interested, to know if anyone wants him sacked before the start of next season. My interpretation of some of the language used suggests so.

I don't deny our form hasn't been great recently but he has proven how good it can be. With better players as we'll surely buy in the summer we should be looking top 8 next season. If we don't buy a central midfielder and more creativity up front/on the wing I think we'll be hard pressed to improve. 


I don't want him sacked right now, but if an exciting alternative became available I'd want to seriously consider it.

I'd absolutely love Smith to be a big long term success, but I am struggling to get over the fact that we've been poor for such long spells in both his seasons in the top flight.  I get that there are mitigating circumstances, but notwithstanding petty arguments over sematics, my eye test tells me we've been playing like a relegation team for a long time now.  If we start poorly next season I wouldn't be waiting long to pull the trigger.  I've got mixed feelings about giving him the summer if we're going to spend big, but given we have a recruitiment team leading the strategy it probably isn't too much of a problem.

I think I'm mainly just so frustrated about what a fantastic opportunity we've blown this season.  Yes we're staying up and yes I'd have taken 11th, but we only had to have an average second half of the season and we'd have put ourselves in a much stronger position to attract players, retain Jack and really kick on.  It's a reasonable placing, but feels like a failure.

Who is this exciting alternative though. I'm not saying that so you can pick a name and I can rubbish it. I just don't see one. The likes of the top managers are out of our reach, and the days of any foreign name being an automatic preferable option is long gone when you see how many have failed over here. I just don't see a long list of options. That's not to say they couldn't do better than Smith
I agree.  I can't see any realistic alternatives right now.  With that said, it's not my job to scour the market for them.  But if, hypothetically, say Poch or Rodgers was available then yes I'd be tempted.

Hopefully we'll start next season on fire and all this worry will have proven pointless.

yep and if we're struggling come December I think most people will say fair enough if he gets the push.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on May 18, 2021, 04:08:35 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: sickbeggar on May 18, 2021, 04:06:31 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on May 18, 2021, 03:59:57 PM
Quote from: sickbeggar on May 18, 2021, 03:51:42 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on May 18, 2021, 03:42:55 PM
Quote from: Drummond on May 18, 2021, 02:59:58 PM
I'm interested, to know if anyone wants him sacked before the start of next season. My interpretation of some of the language used suggests so.

I don't deny our form hasn't been great recently but he has proven how good it can be. With better players as we'll surely buy in the summer we should be looking top 8 next season. If we don't buy a central midfielder and more creativity up front/on the wing I think we'll be hard pressed to improve. 


I don't want him sacked right now, but if an exciting alternative became available I'd want to seriously consider it.

I'd absolutely love Smith to be a big long term success, but I am struggling to get over the fact that we've been poor for such long spells in both his seasons in the top flight.  I get that there are mitigating circumstances, but notwithstanding petty arguments over sematics, my eye test tells me we've been playing like a relegation team for a long time now.  If we start poorly next season I wouldn't be waiting long to pull the trigger.  I've got mixed feelings about giving him the summer if we're going to spend big, but given we have a recruitiment team leading the strategy it probably isn't too much of a problem.

I think I'm mainly just so frustrated about what a fantastic opportunity we've blown this season.  Yes we're staying up and yes I'd have taken 11th, but we only had to have an average second half of the season and we'd have put ourselves in a much stronger position to attract players, retain Jack and really kick on.  It's a reasonable placing, but feels like a failure.

Who is this exciting alternative though. I'm not saying that so you can pick a name and I can rubbish it. I just don't see one. The likes of the top managers are out of our reach, and the days of any foreign name being an automatic preferable option is long gone when you see how many have failed over here. I just don't see a long list of options. That's not to say they couldn't do better than Smith
I agree.  I can't see any realistic alternatives right now.  With that said, it's not my job to scour the market for them.  But if, hypothetically, say Poch or Rodgers was available then yes I'd be tempted.

Hopefully we'll start next season on fire and all this worry will have proven pointless.

yep and if we're struggling come December I think most people will say fair enough if he gets the push.

I think you're right, and to be honest earlier than that.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on May 18, 2021, 04:32:22 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Drummond on May 18, 2021, 02:59:58 PM
I'm interested, to know if anyone wants him sacked before the start of next season. My interpretation of some of the language used suggests so.

I don't deny our form hasn't been great recently but he has proven how good it can be. With better players as we'll surely buy in the summer we should be looking top 8 next season. If we don't buy a central midfielder and more creativity up front/on the wing I think we'll be hard pressed to improve. 



It’s a very good question
And my answer is it all depends on who replaces him

At the moment who is available no one that I can see realistically
Most of the links we had at the end of last season I would rather stick with Dean Smith

But in my view we will need an elite manager (whatever that means ) to get us into the top six I don’t think that will be Dean Smith but others think he should get the chance and maybe he will so we’ll see





			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on May 18, 2021, 04:35:32 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on May 18, 2021, 02:26:03 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on May 18, 2021, 02:20:50 PM
Heard Dean on the radio earlier.

Said there's no reason to downplay expectations for next season and we want to be finishing well in the top half.

Felt injuries to key players had disrupted us at key point this season which is why we've dropped out of top half.

Accepted we'd struggled to work out how to adapt to no Grealish for first 5-6 games of his injury. Said we'd been better in recent weeks and I agreed with him (although he used the expected goals metric....)

I think when the manager of the club is really bigging up next season then don't think people on here should get criticised too much for wanting 8th or 7th as that will be club target for next year by all accounts.

First 5 games after Jack's injury - 5 points
Next 9 games, inluding Jack being back for 2 of them as sub - 8 points

The bloke's an idiot.




I thought we looked properly clueless v Sheffield United, Newcastle and Wolves so those are 3 of the five games after Grealish injury. We were also really poor v Spurs who'd just had a comical european exit.

I think since then we've not been that bad...Fulham for first hour wasn' great to put it mildly but we stepped it up in last 20 to win, played alright at Liverpool second half and shouldn't have lost, great at Everton, looked good first half v Man. United before the predictable collapse and I thought we did fine at Palace first half and that was carbon copy of Burnley.

A mid table team in losing to many of the teams finishing 15-20 points ahead of them shock. 1 point v Sheffield United and Newcastle who barely had an attacking player out v us was far worse.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on May 18, 2021, 04:35:55 PM
			

			

				It's interesting, people want a big manager, but there aren't any available, or that would likely leave the clubs they are at to come to us. I guess if they were told they had a couple of hundred million they might be persuaded but even then, with out structure, they wouldn't get final say on everything.

It reinforces to me that SMith is ok, but he has to learn and adapt a bit better. I think he can, and I hope, as I'm sure we do, that he does!
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on May 18, 2021, 04:43:17 PM
			

			

				I want him in charge for next season.

I want him to go out and sign some exciting players during the summer. Sit them down in a room and get them to come play for us. And with the greatest will in the world that dosen't mean more Brentford players or Dwight McNeil. Some of those can come aswell but I want us to sign a player who'd give us all confidence we can break into top 6 at some point in next 2-3 years like signing Carew in January 2007 did.

To me a player like that would be Milenkovic-Savic at Lazio so does DS have the pull Ancelloti does to get a good standard european player to come to play for us? Think the owners will be keeping tabs on that if 200m budget really will be given to him.

I want him to do well next season. However I don't believe the annual 1 win in 12 should just be dismissed as one of those things if it hits us as always happens in a Smith season. We have to be better than that now unless say we've got a nightmare fixture list and we're playing those games without 3-4 of Jack, Martinez, Mings and Watkins. That is the get out pass, anything else would be a major disappointment and pretty much end top 10 bid unless we get off to another really good start so interested what owners and Purslow would do if we hit that form in November-December.

Decisions we make this summer will set things up for next 5 seasons I reckon so it's crucial we don't mess about.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on May 18, 2021, 04:52:54 PM
			

			

				I would definitely not do what Levi has done, get rid of the manager who their top player got on with and ended up looking a bit of a basket case.
No point in getting rid of Smith unless its a significant step forward.

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on May 18, 2021, 04:55:21 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: SoccerHQ on May 18, 2021, 04:43:17 PM
I want him in charge for next season.

I want him to go out and sign some exciting players during the summer. Sit them down in a room and get them to come play for us. And with the greatest will in the world that dosen't mean more Brentford players or Dwight McNeil. Some of those can come aswell but I want us to sign a player who'd give us all confidence we can break into top 6 at some point in next 2-3 years like signing Carew in January 2007 did.

To me a player like that would be Milenkovic-Savic at Lazio so does DS have the pull Ancelloti does to get a good standard european player to come to play for us? Think the owners will be keeping tabs on that if 200m budget really will be given to him.

I want him to do well next season. However I don't believe the annual 1 win in 12 should just be dismissed as one of those things if it hits us as always happens in a Smith season. We have to be better than that now unless say we've got a nightmare fixture list and we're playing those games without 3-4 of Jack, Martinez, Mings and Watkins. That is the get out pass, anything else would be a major disappointment and pretty much end top 10 bid unless we get off to another really good start so interested what owners and Purslow would do if we hit that form in November-December.

Decisions we make this summer will set things up for next 5 seasons I reckon so it's crucial we don't mess about.

I'm pretty much on the same page, Malen would be my 'statement of intent' signing this summer, he's wanted by a bunch of big clubs so going for him and convincing him to come would be massive. I think he'd fit in brilliantly as well.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on May 18, 2021, 04:56:37 PM
			

			

				Graham Potters an interesting one
if he was doing the same job in Germany or Spain I get the feeling he would be seen as Naglesman or Tuchel like when they were early on 

Your not going to win anything or get anywhere at BHA so it’s difficult to judge
but I still think they were one of the best teams we played at their place and we still came away with a point and from other games I’ve seen they look an exciting unit
there league position obviously means they have big flaws but it’s BHA on a budget same size as Brentford I would think 

I don’t even know what I’m suggesting here but I think he will be an interesting watch in the future 




			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Mister E on May 18, 2021, 05:01:13 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Toronto Villa on May 18, 2021, 03:09:09 PM
Quote from: Risso on May 18, 2021, 03:03:55 PM
Quote from: Drummond on May 18, 2021, 02:59:58 PM
I'm interested, to know if anyone wants him sacked before the start of next season. My interpretation of some of the language used suggests so.
I don't deny our form hasn't been great recently but he has proven how good it can be. With better players as we'll surely buy in the summer we should be looking top 8 next season. If we don't buy a central midfielder and more creativity up front/on the wing I think we'll be hard pressed to improve. 
I wouldn't get rid of him to bring in somebody like Dyche or Howe, no, but I'd love to see a big hitter appointed to really try to shift us forward more quickly.  Smith has been lucky to inherit a freak of nature like Grealish, but without him we seem completely devoid of ideas, and I don't think Smith is the bloke to attract the sort of big names we need.
I hope that the players we are going after would be able to flourish under a better manager should one be needed and/or appointed. For too long we bought players specific to the manager. The one thing I have been impressed with at Leicester is that players bought since they won the title have been for the most part quality footballers and now with a better manager they have improved further. With the likes of Martinez, Konsa, Watkins, Cash, Targett as examples they will do well with Smith or anyone else for that matter. We need to keep getting in players of that level and better to progress.
Isn't that the point of bringing in Lange and others (your point in bold): to create a platform that is not dependent on one specific manager. So, I agree.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on May 18, 2021, 05:04:07 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: john e on May 18, 2021, 04:56:37 PM
Graham Potters an interesting one
if he was doing the same job in Germany or Spain I get the feeling he would be seen as Naglesman or Tuchel like when they were early on 

Your not going to win anything or get anywhere at BHA so it’s difficult to judge
but I still think they were one of the best teams we played at their place and we still came away with a point and from other games I’ve seen they look an exciting unit
there league position obviously means they have big flaws but it’s BHA on a budget same size as Brentford I would think 

I don’t even know what I’m suggesting here but I think he will be an interesting watch in the future 





Villa fan aswell....

Think he needs another season as given how Brighton have played for most of the season them still being a far way off top half isn't great.

Can certainly see him being on Leicester's radar if Rodgers moves on soon so that's the thought of joined up thinking we've lacked with managerial searches in last decade, just going from one managerial extreme to another regularly.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on May 18, 2021, 05:07:33 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: john e on May 18, 2021, 04:56:37 PM
Graham Potters an interesting one
if he was doing the same job in Germany or Spain I get the feeling he would be seen as Naglesman or Tuchel like when they were early on 

Your not going to win anything or get anywhere at BHA so it’s difficult to judge
but I still think they were one of the best teams we played at their place and we still came away with a point and from other games I’ve seen they look an exciting unit
there league position obviously means they have big flaws but it’s BHA on a budget same size as Brentford I would think 

I don’t even know what I’m suggesting here but I think he will be an interesting watch in the future 

He's done ok but despite playing some tidy football they've been pretty toothless for most of the season, that might be the squad but there has to be a question mark, 76 goals in 74 games is why they've been near the bottom of the league for both of his seasons with them.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on May 18, 2021, 05:11:33 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Mister E on May 18, 2021, 05:01:13 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on May 18, 2021, 03:09:09 PM
Quote from: Risso on May 18, 2021, 03:03:55 PM
Quote from: Drummond on May 18, 2021, 02:59:58 PM
I'm interested, to know if anyone wants him sacked before the start of next season. My interpretation of some of the language used suggests so.
I don't deny our form hasn't been great recently but he has proven how good it can be. With better players as we'll surely buy in the summer we should be looking top 8 next season. If we don't buy a central midfielder and more creativity up front/on the wing I think we'll be hard pressed to improve. 
I wouldn't get rid of him to bring in somebody like Dyche or Howe, no, but I'd love to see a big hitter appointed to really try to shift us forward more quickly.  Smith has been lucky to inherit a freak of nature like Grealish, but without him we seem completely devoid of ideas, and I don't think Smith is the bloke to attract the sort of big names we need.
I hope that the players we are going after would be able to flourish under a better manager should one be needed and/or appointed. For too long we bought players specific to the manager. The one thing I have been impressed with at Leicester is that players bought since they won the title have been for the most part quality footballers and now with a better manager they have improved further. With the likes of Martinez, Konsa, Watkins, Cash, Targett as examples they will do well with Smith or anyone else for that matter. We need to keep getting in players of that level and better to progress.
Isn't that the point of bringing in Lange and others (your point in bold): to create a platform that is not dependent on one specific manager. So, I agree.

Having a recruitment team is half the job, the other half comes down to who we pick next whenever Smith leaves. Bring in someone like Dyche (who isn't a terrible manager, just not suited to the players we seem to be going for) and the whole thing falls down.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: sickbeggar on May 18, 2021, 05:13:06 PM
			

			

				Potter's done alright but lets face it given the crap that's gone down finishing 17th and possibly 11th points off 18th isn't that impressive.  Anyway I couldn't see the argument in giving 200m to him instead of Smith.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Mister E on May 18, 2021, 05:14:45 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: paul_e on May 18, 2021, 05:11:33 PM
Quote from: Mister E on May 18, 2021, 05:01:13 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on May 18, 2021, 03:09:09 PM
Quote from: Risso on May 18, 2021, 03:03:55 PM
Quote from: Drummond on May 18, 2021, 02:59:58 PM
I'm interested, to know if anyone wants him sacked before the start of next season. My interpretation of some of the language used suggests so.
I don't deny our form hasn't been great recently but he has proven how good it can be. With better players as we'll surely buy in the summer we should be looking top 8 next season. If we don't buy a central midfielder and more creativity up front/on the wing I think we'll be hard pressed to improve. 
I wouldn't get rid of him to bring in somebody like Dyche or Howe, no, but I'd love to see a big hitter appointed to really try to shift us forward more quickly.  Smith has been lucky to inherit a freak of nature like Grealish, but without him we seem completely devoid of ideas, and I don't think Smith is the bloke to attract the sort of big names we need.
I hope that the players we are going after would be able to flourish under a better manager should one be needed and/or appointed. For too long we bought players specific to the manager. The one thing I have been impressed with at Leicester is that players bought since they won the title have been for the most part quality footballers and now with a better manager they have improved further. With the likes of Martinez, Konsa, Watkins, Cash, Targett as examples they will do well with Smith or anyone else for that matter. We need to keep getting in players of that level and better to progress.
Isn't that the point of bringing in Lange and others (your point in bold): to create a platform that is not dependent on one specific manager. So, I agree.
Having a recruitment team is half the job, the other half comes down to who we pick next whenever Smith leaves. Bring in someone like Dyche (who isn't a terrible manager, just not suited to the players we seem to be going for) and the whole thing falls down.
Of course, what I should have said is that Dean is the Head Coach, not manager. And my point was that the club now has an infrastructure designed to minimise the impact of the Head Coach being bulleted.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on May 18, 2021, 05:35:50 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Drummond on May 18, 2021, 04:35:55 PM
It's interesting, people want a big manager, but there aren't any available, or that would likely leave the clubs they are at to come to us. I guess if they were told they had a couple of hundred million they might be persuaded but even then, with out structure, they wouldn't get final say on everything.

It reinforces to me that SMith is ok, but he has to learn and adapt a bit better. I think he can, and I hope, as I'm sure we do, that he does!

You never really find out who's available until there's a job going. Technically Smith wasn't available as he had a contract at Brentford. Then we sacked Bruce, and all of a sudden he was available.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: brontebilly on May 18, 2021, 05:37:54 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: sickbeggar on May 18, 2021, 05:13:06 PM
Potter's done alright but lets face it given the crap that's gone down finishing 17th and possibly 11th points off 18th isn't that impressive.  Anyway I couldn't see the argument in giving 200m to him instead of Smith.

Potter's stats are great apparently, xG and the likes, not the one stats that actually matters at season end. Points on the board. Not even sure they have improved much from Hughton's time. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Meanwood Villa on May 18, 2021, 05:41:51 PM
			

			

				Saying Smith isn't good enough but Potter is is a bit of a leap in my book.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: eamonn on May 18, 2021, 06:32:36 PM
			

			

				Swap Watkins for Maupay, swap Villa and Brighton's positions?

I guess our defence is a fair bit better too. I'd have Trossard and Bissouma in midfield ahead of McGinn/Luiz though.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on May 18, 2021, 06:57:12 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Meanwood Villa on May 18, 2021, 05:41:51 PM
Saying Smith isn't good enough but Potter is is a bit of a leap in my book.

I’m not saying he’s good enough
Just saying he’s an interesting one to watch 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on May 18, 2021, 08:27:20 PM
			

			

				This time last season people were saying we should get Pochettino in. He went to PSG. Somebody mentioned him again a few pages ago, along with Rodgers. We are not a step up for these people, and these kind of people, at this stage of their careers, only take steps upwards.

Edit: and according to Pitarch (who would know), had we sacked Dean we'd have been looking at Chris Hughton. 

Some perspective required.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: pauliewalnuts on May 18, 2021, 08:30:52 PM
			

			

				Leeds are a better side than us, which is why they are where they are and why we are where we are. 

We've got a much stronger squad and a decent manager but they've got a top quality manager. 

We need to be where they are next season, and DS has done, for me, just about enough to have the chance to do it, but he's really got to deliver. 

I understand our weaknesses in this second half of the season, and there are mitigating factors, but he has got to put them right. Ultimately he has to deliver, and if he gets the financial backing this summer, he is going to have to produce the goods. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Damo70 on May 18, 2021, 08:35:22 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: john e on May 18, 2021, 06:57:12 PM
Quote from: Meanwood Villa on May 18, 2021, 05:41:51 PM
Saying Smith isn't good enough but Potter is is a bit of a leap in my book.

I’m not saying he’s good enough
Just saying he’s an interesting one to watch

Potter is a decent coach but for me he would not be an upgrade on Dean Smith.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: pauliewalnuts on May 18, 2021, 08:43:29 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Damo70 on May 18, 2021, 08:35:22 PM
Quote from: john e on May 18, 2021, 06:57:12 PM
Quote from: Meanwood Villa on May 18, 2021, 05:41:51 PM
Saying Smith isn't good enough but Potter is is a bit of a leap in my book.

I’m not saying he’s good enough
Just saying he’s an interesting one to watch

Potter is a decent coach but for me he would not be an upgrade on Dean Smith.

Indeed. Pointless.

If we change manager, we need to choose someone markedly better than what we have.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Toronto Villa on May 18, 2021, 08:57:52 PM
			

			

				A big part of what we are seeing with Leeds is that they, much like Sheff Utd didn’t come up surprisingly. Let’s be honest when Dean took over and once Jack was out nobody, even the most rose tinted specs wearing Villa fan saw what would happen next. But it did and we had to blow everything up and start almost from scratch. There are still residual affects from that very sudden rebuild. Leeds had Bielsa for a couple of years in the Championship and now a continuation into the PL with a solid base. So that they look more cohesive isn’t a shock. We are just very dependent on Jack, but we’ve shown when we are flying our ceiling is a lot higher than we are showing now, but our floor is lower than it should be if we are to compete at the top end. We cannot have such a wide gap in our performances. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: AndyB6 on May 18, 2021, 09:06:20 PM
			

			

				I think our record against teams when they have gone down to ten men raises many questions about Smith's coaching ability.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Toronto Villa on May 18, 2021, 09:11:08 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: AndyB6 on May 18, 2021, 09:06:20 PM
I think our record against teams when they have gone down to ten men raises many questions about Smith's coaching ability.

We battered Palace
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on May 18, 2021, 09:16:21 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Damo70 on May 18, 2021, 08:35:22 PM
Quote from: john e on May 18, 2021, 06:57:12 PM
Quote from: Meanwood Villa on May 18, 2021, 05:41:51 PM
Saying Smith isn't good enough but Potter is is a bit of a leap in my book.

I’m not saying he’s good enough
Just saying he’s an interesting one to watch

Potter is a decent coach but for me he would not be an upgrade on Dean Smith.
he certainly wouldn’t be a downgrade 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Richard E on May 18, 2021, 09:21:13 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Toronto Villa on May 18, 2021, 09:11:08 PM
Quote from: AndyB6 on May 18, 2021, 09:06:20 PM
I think our record against teams when they have gone down to ten men raises many questions about Smith's coaching ability.

We battered Palace

It was us who was down to ten men in that one.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: AndyB6 on May 18, 2021, 10:06:21 PM
			

			

				And we did considerably worse against Palace with 11 vs 11 on Sunday 😬.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Toronto Villa on May 18, 2021, 10:07:01 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Richard E on May 18, 2021, 09:21:13 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on May 18, 2021, 09:11:08 PM
Quote from: AndyB6 on May 18, 2021, 09:06:20 PM
I think our record against teams when they have gone down to ten men raises many questions about Smith's coaching ability.

We battered Palace

It was us who was down to ten men in that one.

Ah fuck that’s right. We were ace.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on May 18, 2021, 10:36:44 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on May 18, 2021, 08:30:52 PM
Leeds are a better side than us, which is why they are where they are and why we are where we are. 

We've got a much stronger squad and a decent manager but they've got a top quality manager. 

We need to be where they are next season, and DS has done, for me, just about enough to have the chance to do it, but he's really got to deliver. 

I understand our weaknesses in this second half of the season, and there are mitigating factors, but he has got to put them right. Ultimately he has to deliver, and if he gets the financial backing this summer, he is going to have to produce the goods.

I'd argue that Leeds have built a team over time that are used to each other. We've had to rebuild the squad, twice. And therefore you could argue that Smith has done better overall. This season though, Leeds are ahead. Next season 8s the acid test as they won't have the same momentum. Who knows though. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ads on May 18, 2021, 10:38:22 PM
			

			

				If Spurs had any sense they would take Bielsa.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Meanwood Villa on May 18, 2021, 10:49:03 PM
			

			

				We'll finish above Leeds next season. I guarantee it.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Meanwood Villa on May 18, 2021, 10:49:49 PM
			

			

				(Channelling Joe Namath)
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: pauliewalnuts on May 18, 2021, 11:27:15 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Ads on May 18, 2021, 10:38:22 PM
If Spurs had any sense they would take Bielsa.

Was thinking exactly this earlier today.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on May 18, 2021, 11:29:25 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Ads on May 18, 2021, 10:38:22 PM
If Spurs had any sense they would take Bielsa.

He's just agreed to a new contract. The other thing is he needs a sense of belonging. Leeds was the perfect fit.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Steve67 on May 18, 2021, 11:35:34 PM
			

			

				Dean Smith quoted in the express and star as saying we only need 2 to 3 players this summer rather than a load of players. I think this is probably right but depends on the three players and whether they are up there with the likes of Jack, so they can take some of the pressure off him. If we don’t sign a good quality defensive central midfielder I will be shocked as we have to control the centre of the park more. I reckon Tammy is nailed on, we will spend big on a 10 and I hope and pray for a DCM. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: cdbearsfan on May 18, 2021, 11:41:21 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on May 18, 2021, 08:30:52 PM
Leeds are a better side than us, which is why they are where they are and why we are where we are. 

We've got a much stronger squad and a decent manager but they've got a top quality manager. 

We need to be where they are next season, and DS has done, for me, just about enough to have the chance to do it, but he's really got to deliver. 

I understand our weaknesses in this second half of the season, and there are mitigating factors, but he has got to put them right. Ultimately he has to deliver, and if he gets the financial backing this summer, he is going to have to produce the goods.

They're better than us if we don't have Grealish. That's why they're above us in the league. We are better than them with Grealish. That's why we were above them before he got injured.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on May 18, 2021, 11:55:56 PM
			

			

				They were the only team this season to rip us a new one at Villa Park. At Elland Road we strangled the life out of the game and left them confused and with 3 points.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: pauliewalnuts on May 19, 2021, 12:01:05 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on May 18, 2021, 11:41:21 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on May 18, 2021, 08:30:52 PM
Leeds are a better side than us, which is why they are where they are and why we are where we are. 

We've got a much stronger squad and a decent manager but they've got a top quality manager. 

We need to be where they are next season, and DS has done, for me, just about enough to have the chance to do it, but he's really got to deliver. 

I understand our weaknesses in this second half of the season, and there are mitigating factors, but he has got to put them right. Ultimately he has to deliver, and if he gets the financial backing this summer, he is going to have to produce the goods.

They're better than us if we don't have Grealish. That's why they're above us in the league. We are better than them with Grealish. That's why we were above them before he got injured.

To quote a hundred posters on here whenever this sort of stuff is normally discussed, the league table says they're eighth and we're twelfth (or whatever we are), all the rest is ifs and buts.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: tomd2103 on May 19, 2021, 12:04:20 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Steve67 on May 18, 2021, 11:35:34 PM
Dean Smith quoted in the express and star as saying we only need 2 to 3 players this summer rather than a load of players. I think this is probably right but depends on the three players and whether they are up there with the likes of Jack, so they can take some of the pressure off him. If we don’t sign a good quality defensive central midfielder I will be shocked as we have to control the centre of the park more. I reckon Tammy is nailed on, we will spend big on a 10 and I hope and pray for a DCM.
g

We need 2-3 real quality players to go into the starting XI, but also need to upgrade some of the squad options as well.  If Engels leaves, we will need to replace him; we need a better 2nd choice left-back than Taylor and we need a back-up striker which would allow Davis to go out on loan and get some game time.  
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: cdbearsfan on May 19, 2021, 12:07:59 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on May 19, 2021, 12:01:05 AM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on May 18, 2021, 11:41:21 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on May 18, 2021, 08:30:52 PM
Leeds are a better side than us, which is why they are where they are and why we are where we are. 

We've got a much stronger squad and a decent manager but they've got a top quality manager. 

We need to be where they are next season, and DS has done, for me, just about enough to have the chance to do it, but he's really got to deliver. 

I understand our weaknesses in this second half of the season, and there are mitigating factors, but he has got to put them right. Ultimately he has to deliver, and if he gets the financial backing this summer, he is going to have to produce the goods.

They're better than us if we don't have Grealish. That's why they're above us in the league. We are better than them with Grealish. That's why we were above them before he got injured.

To quote a hundred posters on here whenever this sort of stuff is normally discussed, the league table says they're eighth and we're twelfth (or whatever we are), all the rest is ifs and buts.

And the league table when Grealish was available said that we were above them, I don't think you can really ignore that. We are quite clearly a much better team with him in.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Hockley Lion on May 19, 2021, 12:26:11 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on May 19, 2021, 12:07:59 AM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on May 19, 2021, 12:01:05 AM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on May 18, 2021, 11:41:21 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on May 18, 2021, 08:30:52 PM
Leeds are a better side than us, which is why they are where they are and why we are where we are. 

We've got a much stronger squad and a decent manager but they've got a top quality manager. 

We need to be where they are next season, and DS has done, for me, just about enough to have the chance to do it, but he's really got to deliver. 

I understand our weaknesses in this second half of the season, and there are mitigating factors, but he has got to put them right. Ultimately he has to deliver, and if he gets the financial backing this summer, he is going to have to produce the goods.

They're better than us if we don't have Grealish. That's why they're above us in the league. We are better than them with Grealish. That's why we were above them before he got injured.

To quote a hundred posters on here whenever this sort of stuff is normally discussed, the league table says they're eighth and we're twelfth (or whatever we are), all the rest is ifs and buts.

And the league table when Grealish was available said that we were above them, I don't think you can really ignore that. We are quite clearly a much better team with him in.

If Jack hadn't been injured I'm confident we'd be comfortably in the top half, even 8th maybe and there'd be less criticism. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on May 19, 2021, 12:42:54 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: sickbeggar on May 18, 2021, 05:13:06 PM
Potter's done alright but lets face it given the crap that's gone down finishing 17th and possibly 11th points off 18th isn't that impressive.  Anyway I couldn't see the argument in giving 200m to him instead of Smith.

I think it's always important to look at managers who showed enough in how they coach in that the ability can be scaled up if given a better calibre of players.

I would put Potter in that category. A decade ago Rodgers came up with Swansea and got them playing good football and they finished 11th that year with 47 points so similar to what we've done and 5 points more than what Brighton are on. His ability scaled up no problem in the decade since compared to say Paul Lambert who also finished that prem season on 47....

Martinez was another around that time who showed good ability but was dismissed because Wigan were constantly in relegation battles...again hasn't done too badly since as in the 5 years since he's left Everton a couple of high profile managers have done no beter than him despite many more 100s of millions spent.

I think if we're looking for similar type to DS then Potter would be a decent pick (don't forget he has europa league experience aswell) but I accept he won't have the wow factor we all want from a signing or managerial appointment eventually.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on May 19, 2021, 12:44:36 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on May 18, 2021, 08:27:20 PM
This time last season people were saying we should get Pochettino in. He went to PSG. Somebody mentioned him again a few pages ago, along with Rodgers. We are not a step up for these people, and these kind of people, at this stage of their careers, only take steps upwards.

Edit: and according to Pitarch (who would know), had we sacked Dean we'd have been looking at Chris Hughton. 

Some perspective required.

Interesting. When did Suso say this? I presume he was implying if we'd sacked DS and got relegated we'd have put Hughton in.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on May 19, 2021, 01:17:07 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: SoccerHQ on May 19, 2021, 12:44:36 AM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on May 18, 2021, 08:27:20 PM
This time last season people were saying we should get Pochettino in. He went to PSG. Somebody mentioned him again a few pages ago, along with Rodgers. We are not a step up for these people, and these kind of people, at this stage of their careers, only take steps upwards.

Edit: and according to Pitarch (who would know), had we sacked Dean we'd have been looking at Chris Hughton. 

Some perspective required.

Interesting. When did Suso say this? I presume he was implying if we'd sacked DS and got relegated we'd have put Hughton in.

After he was sacked. He said (to paraphrase) that he and Dean got on fine, that Purslow was the problem. And that they'd discussed DS getting the boot. Purslow wanted Gerrard or Terry (I think), and he had identified Hughton and another Championship manager who escapes me at the moment. Guillem Balague tweeted it out just after he left.

Edit: thread here: https://twitter.com/GuillemBalague/status/1288087347528073216
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: eamonn on May 19, 2021, 01:56:49 AM
			

			

				Balague acts the Big Balls know it all at times. 

And in that tweet he says we were promoted two years ahead of schedule. It was one, wasn't it?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: RamboandBruno on May 19, 2021, 07:20:26 AM
			

			

				Mulled over the discussions on here and the varying viewpoints. It seems to be that Smith and his coaching staff made some concerted efforts to spot where we were weak and improve us. 

with the acquisitions of Emi and Cash and the huge improvement of Targett and Konsa and less obvious improvement of Mings, they have made vast improvements to our defense.
He also tried to vastly improve our attacking intent by surrounding Jack with quality in Watkins, Barkley and Traore. Whilst the defensive changes have worked brilliantly, the attacking changes have been hindered by Grealish missing 1/3 of the season which probably couldn’t be predicted, and Barkley getting injured early on and not recovering either his form or seemingly mental strength to perform at this level, you could argue that research should of been done on Barkleys personality but maybe they thought it was a risk worth taking. Watkins has worked, Traore only in patches, which we could of coped with if Jack hadn’t got injured and Barkley hadn’t flopped.

The midfield, Luiz was probably our best player post lockdown and there was probably no reason to think his progress wouldn’t continue, but he’s stalled a bit. The experiment with McGinn in a deep lying role largely hasn’t worked.

A manager/coach lives by he decisions and is impacted by good or back luck. It seems to me that Smith has done an unbelievable job with the defense, has been hindered by misfortune in attack and has made decisions that haven’t worked in midfield. So a mixed bag.

He now needs to step up again for next season and like others have said a really good defensive midfielder to play alongside or instead of Luiz is essential, alongside another top quality attacking player to replace Barkley and another forward to compete with Ollie. Smith will then live or die by those decisions or how he coaches them. 

It also seems despite all the discussions there is somewhat of a concensus on here between those in the Smith camp or sitting outside of it, that in terms of where we are there probably isn’t anyone else at the moment and he should start with us next season. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on May 19, 2021, 07:36:34 AM
			

			

				Wasn't Purslow's one managerial appointment when he was in charge of Liverpool, Roy Hodgson?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: sickbeggar on May 19, 2021, 07:36:58 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: SoccerHQ on May 19, 2021, 12:42:54 AM
Quote from: sickbeggar on May 18, 2021, 05:13:06 PM
Potter's done alright but lets face it given the crap that's gone down finishing 17th and possibly 11th points off 18th isn't that impressive.  Anyway I couldn't see the argument in giving 200m to him instead of Smith.

I think it's always important to look at managers who showed enough in how they coach in that the ability can be scaled up if given a better calibre of players.

I would put Potter in that category. A decade ago Rodgers came up with Swansea and got them playing good football and they finished 11th that year with 47 points so similar to what we've done and 5 points more than what Brighton are on. His ability scaled up no problem in the decade since compared to say Paul Lambert who also finished that prem season on 47....

Martinez was another around that time who showed good ability but was dismissed because Wigan were constantly in relegation battles...again hasn't done too badly since as in the 5 years since he's left Everton a couple of high profile managers have done no beter than him despite many more 100s of millions spent.

I think if we're looking for similar type to DS then Potter would be a decent pick (don't forget he has europa league experience aswell) but I accept he won't have the wow factor we all want from a signing or managerial appointment eventually.

yeah i'm not saying he's worse than Smith or better. He could be better. Or worse  I'm just saying there's no real evidence for the club to bet the farm on him replacing Smith this summer. Of course if we're bottom 5 this autumn and BHA are top 8 then people's opinion will inevitably change, but if someone at the club decided we're really going for the big time and sanctioned mega-spending this summer then unveiling Potter as the man to take us to the next level is a bit "wtf?" really. As you say, he's very in the DS mould as far as media recognition and profile are concerned.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on May 19, 2021, 07:40:42 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: eamonn on May 19, 2021, 01:56:49 AM
Balague acts the Big Balls know it all at times. 

And in that tweet he says we were promoted two years ahead of schedule. It was one, wasn't it?

It also comes across as a little bit of somebody sticking up for his mate.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on May 19, 2021, 07:40:49 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on May 19, 2021, 07:36:34 AM
Wasn't Purslow's one managerial appointment when he was in charge of Liverpool, Roy Hodgson?
Row
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ozzjim on May 19, 2021, 07:54:53 AM
			

			

				I would take Potter over Smith tomorrow. I think Deano is great, I think he has done really well to get us to safety, and then kick on, but if we are as ambitious as claimed, then he needs to be replaced with someone tactically more astute sooner rather than later. Leeds are the prime example of a manager making the difference, they have a decent championship squad with 3-4 good players on top, and Bielsa has extracted every last ounce of ability from them. No way any other manager with that squad gets close to 55 points. Spurs should be offering him the earth on a stick to go there. Problem we have is every manager in the land knows how we will line up every week, the way we will play, the time we will make subs etc. We have no variation, no ability to change things. If Smith is going to kick us on to the top 6 as per the will of the owners, he is going to have to adapt and improve too. 

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ian. on May 19, 2021, 07:55:17 AM
			

			

				I seriously think a little more consistency and balance in our midfield, some help or cover for Watkins, some real quality to replace Barkley (as this didn’t quite work, but showed glimpses of what could have been) we’re not far off a very good side.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: themossman on May 19, 2021, 08:05:46 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: paul_e on May 18, 2021, 11:53:04 AM
Quote from: john e on May 18, 2021, 10:54:32 AM
But the new narrative now is ‘well we’ve improved this season, what did you expect‘
Well I expected more last season for a start 
Where we are now is where we should’ve been last year
I’ve heard all the excuses of why we aren’t and I’m not bothered it’s not a race to the bottom

I won't quote everything but this bit, for me, shows a lack of understanding of what happens to play off winners. Since the formation of the premier league well over half of teams promoted from the play offs have been relegated the next season. A team that finishes 3-6 in the championship is out of its depth in the premier league and the only way around that is to spend big on improving the squad but that comes with it's own dangers of "doing a Fulham" because you're going into a very competitive league with a squad that are still getting to know each other.

a play off team not going back down is always an achievement, history shows that clearly.

I’m not sure you can throw us in with playoff winners as a homogenous group though. We were underperforming spectacularly in the championship, relative to resources, before the run that took us into the playoffs. We had a lot of player turnover but still had a more expensive squad than your typical team promoted through the playoffs. And we had one of the best players in the league, which is unusual for a team in that position.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Chris Smith on May 19, 2021, 08:23:04 AM
			

			

				I think you have to factor in injuries to key players when passing judgement. Has Klopp become a poor manager because they’ve gone backwards without van Dijk? Or Nuno as they’ve dropped a few places without Jimenez?

The sort of short term thinking that calls for a change of manager every couple of years rarely brings success. While we are going forward under Smith I see no reason to change.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Mister E on May 19, 2021, 08:29:36 AM
			

			

				I'm not suggesting Potter should replace Smith at this time, but I do think he's done a brilliant job at Brighton, despite their lowly status. They played really well at VP last season, losing 2-1 to a late goal, and have also played some great football this season. Their defence is excellent (I'd take any or all of Dunk, Webster and White) and in Trossard and Bissouma have two super midfielders. Their problem has been the injured-forced absence of Welbeck this season: when he's played, they look like they have goals in them; without, not.
Smith ain't going anywhere at this time; that seems pretty clear. So, it's all about the close season: how they recruit and how they adapt the playing style to become more flexible and more resolute.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Dave P on May 19, 2021, 08:36:44 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on May 18, 2021, 11:55:56 PM
They were the only team this season to rip us a new one at Villa Park. At Elland Road we strangled the life out of the game and left them confused and with 3 points.

West Ham also ripped us to shreds at VP and, but for a dodgy VAR call and a missed pen, we'd have got something in the away game there as well.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on May 19, 2021, 09:04:02 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: ozzjim on May 19, 2021, 07:54:53 AM
I would take Potter over Smith tomorrow. I think Deano is great, I think he has done really well to get us to safety, and then kick on, but if we are as ambitious as claimed, then he needs to be replaced with someone tactically more astute sooner rather than later. Leeds are the prime example of a manager making the difference, they have a decent championship squad with 3-4 good players on top, and Bielsa has extracted every last ounce of ability from them. No way any other manager with that squad gets close to 55 points. Spurs should be offering him the earth on a stick to go there. Problem we have is every manager in the land knows how we will line up every week, the way we will play, the time we will make subs etc. We have no variation, no ability to change things. If Smith is going to kick us on to the top 6 as per the will of the owners, he is going to have to adapt and improve too. 


The saddest bit of this post which makes my heart sink when I read it is the part where are you say every manager in the land knows how we will lineup,knows how we will play and knows when we will make our subs
Dean Smith is no way near as bad as Lambert McLeish and Bruce but that is exactly what They did week after week
There’s a big problem right there

I often see people say Dean is learning on the job and if he is I’ve got no problem but I’d like to see it manifested in tactics and playing formations on the pitch every so often


			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: brontebilly on May 19, 2021, 09:42:05 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Steve67 on May 18, 2021, 11:35:34 PM
Dean Smith quoted in the express and star as saying we only need 2 to 3 players this summer rather than a load of players. I think this is probably right but depends on the three players and whether they are up there with the likes of Jack, so they can take some of the pressure off him. If we don’t sign a good quality defensive central midfielder I will be shocked as we have to control the centre of the park more. I reckon Tammy is nailed on, we will spend big on a 10 and I hope and pray for a DCM.

We will have a number of players leaving too, mostly squad players but they still need to be replaced. Heaton, Elmo, Engels, Taylor, Hourihane, Barkley. I can't see the likes of Guilbert, Nakamba, Davis or Wesley sticking around either. DCM and ACM urgently required and a better quality backup to Watkins capable of playing 8-10 games next season. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on May 19, 2021, 09:42:46 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: ozzjim on May 19, 2021, 07:54:53 AM
I would take Potter over Smith tomorrow. I think Deano is great, I think he has done really well to get us to safety, and then kick on, but if we are as ambitious as claimed, then he needs to be replaced with someone tactically more astute sooner rather than later. Leeds are the prime example of a manager making the difference, they have a decent championship squad with 3-4 good players on top, and Bielsa has extracted every last ounce of ability from them. No way any other manager with that squad gets close to 55 points. Spurs should be offering him the earth on a stick to go there. Problem we have is every manager in the land knows how we will line up every week, the way we will play, the time we will make subs etc. We have no variation, no ability to change things. If Smith is going to kick us on to the top 6 as per the will of the owners, he is going to have to adapt and improve too. 


The second half of this post contradicts the first.

Everyone knows the line-up Leeds will put out.
Everyone knows how Leeds will play
Leeds don't mix things up or change anything much, they have a way of playing and stick to it and Bielsa gets praise for that. Smith has a way of playing and sticks to it and he gets criticism for being tactically naive.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on May 19, 2021, 09:49:08 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: brontebilly on May 19, 2021, 09:42:05 AM
Quote from: Steve67 on May 18, 2021, 11:35:34 PM
Dean Smith quoted in the express and star as saying we only need 2 to 3 players this summer rather than a load of players. I think this is probably right but depends on the three players and whether they are up there with the likes of Jack, so they can take some of the pressure off him. If we don’t sign a good quality defensive central midfielder I will be shocked as we have to control the centre of the park more. I reckon Tammy is nailed on, we will spend big on a 10 and I hope and pray for a DCM.

We will have a number of players leaving too, mostly squad players but they still need to be replaced. Heaton, Elmo, Engels, Taylor, Hourihane, Barkley. I can't see the likes of Guilbert, Nakamba, Davis or Wesley sticking around either. DCM and ACM urgently required and a better quality backup to Watkins capable of playing 8-10 games next season. 

Engels has come out and said he plans to stay. Barkley, Elmo, Taylor and Heaton are all out of contract and we'll have known they were going for a while and Hourihane was loaned out so is pretty clearly not in our thinking (you can add Kalinic here as well).

The 4 extras you added will, in my opinion, only go if Smith wants them to so if they leave it'll be because we don't think they're needed.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Monty on May 19, 2021, 09:50:13 AM
			

			

				Well Bielsa overachieves with his method, whereas Smith arguably achieves par. Which is pretty impressive given the ludicrous competitiveness of the top flight, and there are plenty of managers who'll achieve less and find continuous employment.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Clampy on May 19, 2021, 09:54:28 AM
			

			

				I do understand why the predictable tag gets thrown at Smith sometimes. Take tonight, I wonder if maybe Kessler on the right hand side of the front three instead of Bert might be an idea? I know the Under 18's is a different test to what he'd face tonight but he seems good going forward and a decent finisher. Also, against Palace. He threw on both Davis and Wes to salvage a point. He could have put Chukwemeka on instead and tried something different. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Villan82 on May 19, 2021, 09:55:32 AM
			

			

				I'd struggle to name 4 Leeds players but they are comfortably 7 points ahead of us in their first season whereas we now have several international players including one of the best players in Europe if not the world.

I think Smith has earned another crack at it by the way. I just think one of the downsides of him being a villa fan is that he can sometimes sort of get a free pass whereas I feel any manager backed with big money should be subject to scrutiny. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: brontebilly on May 19, 2021, 10:00:47 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: paul_e on May 19, 2021, 09:42:46 AM
Quote from: ozzjim on May 19, 2021, 07:54:53 AM
I would take Potter over Smith tomorrow. I think Deano is great, I think he has done really well to get us to safety, and then kick on, but if we are as ambitious as claimed, then he needs to be replaced with someone tactically more astute sooner rather than later. Leeds are the prime example of a manager making the difference, they have a decent championship squad with 3-4 good players on top, and Bielsa has extracted every last ounce of ability from them. No way any other manager with that squad gets close to 55 points. Spurs should be offering him the earth on a stick to go there. Problem we have is every manager in the land knows how we will line up every week, the way we will play, the time we will make subs etc. We have no variation, no ability to change things. If Smith is going to kick us on to the top 6 as per the will of the owners, he is going to have to adapt and improve too. 


The second half of this post contradicts the first.

Everyone knows the line-up Leeds will put out.
Everyone knows how Leeds will play
Leeds don't mix things up or change anything much, they have a way of playing and stick to it and Bielsa gets praise for that. Smith has a way of playing and sticks to it and he gets criticism for being tactically naive.

Bielsa certainly mixed things up for their dreary home game v Man United recently. They sat very deep not giving Man United's forwards any space. A surprising dose of pragmatism, got them a point.  
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: brontebilly on May 19, 2021, 10:04:42 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: paul_e on May 19, 2021, 09:49:08 AM
Quote from: brontebilly on May 19, 2021, 09:42:05 AM
Quote from: Steve67 on May 18, 2021, 11:35:34 PM
Dean Smith quoted in the express and star as saying we only need 2 to 3 players this summer rather than a load of players. I think this is probably right but depends on the three players and whether they are up there with the likes of Jack, so they can take some of the pressure off him. If we don’t sign a good quality defensive central midfielder I will be shocked as we have to control the centre of the park more. I reckon Tammy is nailed on, we will spend big on a 10 and I hope and pray for a DCM.

We will have a number of players leaving too, mostly squad players but they still need to be replaced. Heaton, Elmo, Engels, Taylor, Hourihane, Barkley. I can't see the likes of Guilbert, Nakamba, Davis or Wesley sticking around either. DCM and ACM urgently required and a better quality backup to Watkins capable of playing 8-10 games next season. 

Engels has come out and said he plans to stay. Barkley, Elmo, Taylor and Heaton are all out of contract and we'll have known they were going for a while and Hourihane was loaned out so is pretty clearly not in our thinking (you can add Kalinic here as well).

The 4 extras you added will, in my opinion, only go if Smith wants them to so if they leave it'll be because we don't think they're needed.

It's still a lot of first team squad players leaving this summer (6-10), unless there are players from the youth team ready to step up we will certainly need more than the 2-3 additions Smith is suggesting. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on May 19, 2021, 10:06:27 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Monty on May 19, 2021, 09:50:13 AM
Well Bielsa overachieves with his method, whereas Smith arguably achieves par. Which is pretty impressive given the ludicrous competitiveness of the top flight, and there are plenty of managers who'll achieve less and find continuous employment.

Which is a fairer assessment, Smith isn't a worse manager than Bielsa, Klopp or Guardiola because he has a system he likes to stick to and he doesn't experiment enough. He doesn't have their experience and isn't as creative in how he sets up a system which is why they're all world class managers and he's not. That doesn't mean he can't still take us forward, we've all seen how this team can play at their best and it's the best football I've seen from a villa team in years (probably since Atkinson).

The performances against Liverpool and Arsenal set a benchmark, we can either be disappointed that we haven't matched that consistently enough since (it's been flashes here and there during games) or we can be optimistic that as the squad improves that consistency will come and we'll be better next year.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Monty on May 19, 2021, 10:15:45 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: paul_e on May 19, 2021, 10:06:27 AM
Quote from: Monty on May 19, 2021, 09:50:13 AM
Well Bielsa overachieves with his method, whereas Smith arguably achieves par. Which is pretty impressive given the ludicrous competitiveness of the top flight, and there are plenty of managers who'll achieve less and find continuous employment.

Which is a fairer assessment, Smith isn't a worse manager than Bielsa, Klopp or Guardiola because he has a system he likes to stick to and he doesn't experiment enough. He doesn't have their experience and isn't as creative in how he sets up a system which is why they're all world class managers and he's not. That doesn't mean he can't still take us forward, we've all seen how this team can play at their best and it's the best football I've seen from a villa team in years (probably since Atkinson).

The performances against Liverpool and Arsenal set a benchmark, we can either be disappointed that we haven't matched that consistently enough since (it's been flashes here and there during games) or we can be optimistic that as the squad improves that consistency will come and we'll be better next year.

The question is - to what extent is he coaching the best out of his players, and is it enough? I saw an interview with that flavour-of-the-month RB Leipzig defender (I'm starting to be completely hopeless with names) and he said that Nagelsmann can improve players in a single conversation. Now, that's obviously an exaggeration, but only to some extent, and we have to ask ourselves what Smith does to improve players in training.

Because he undoubtedly does improve players. We could all pick examples and doubtless some could think of counters (e.g. Konsa, who maybe just had that talent all along), but to my mind the obvious one is Matt Targett, who has gone from a shaky contributor to a player who really knows his role and executes it consistently. Against this, to my mind, is Douglas Luiz, who seems to have gone backwards this year. Perhaps this is just down to himself, but it could also be that Smith doesn't coach the positional play well enough that is so vital in modern top-level midfields.

These are questions we can't really answer perfectly. Everything in football is a gamble - there's a reason we keep referring to this as 'stick or twist' - and we just have to ask ourselves if the improvement we've got really is enough. Because we all remember how MON improved us to a certain level, before his flaws had us bumping our heads against a ceiling that we've never yet reached again.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: The Edge on May 19, 2021, 10:24:04 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on May 18, 2021, 11:55:56 PM
They were the only team this season to rip us a new one at Villa Park. At Elland Road we strangled the life out of the game and left them confused and with 3 points.
Surely this can't be true as Bielsa is the best thing since sliced bread and a master tactician so he can't have been outwitted by Dean Smith? 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on May 19, 2021, 10:25:46 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Monty on May 19, 2021, 10:15:45 AM
Quote from: paul_e on May 19, 2021, 10:06:27 AM
Quote from: Monty on May 19, 2021, 09:50:13 AM
Well Bielsa overachieves with his method, whereas Smith arguably achieves par. Which is pretty impressive given the ludicrous competitiveness of the top flight, and there are plenty of managers who'll achieve less and find continuous employment.

Which is a fairer assessment, Smith isn't a worse manager than Bielsa, Klopp or Guardiola because he has a system he likes to stick to and he doesn't experiment enough. He doesn't have their experience and isn't as creative in how he sets up a system which is why they're all world class managers and he's not. That doesn't mean he can't still take us forward, we've all seen how this team can play at their best and it's the best football I've seen from a villa team in years (probably since Atkinson).

The performances against Liverpool and Arsenal set a benchmark, we can either be disappointed that we haven't matched that consistently enough since (it's been flashes here and there during games) or we can be optimistic that as the squad improves that consistency will come and we'll be better next year.

The question is - to what extent is he coaching the best out of his players, and is it enough? I saw an interview with that flavour-of-the-month RB Leipzig defender (I'm starting to be completely hopeless with names) and he said that Nagelsmann can improve players in a single conversation. Now, that's obviously an exaggeration, but only to some extent, and we have to ask ourselves what Smith does to improve players in training.

Because he undoubtedly does improve players. We could all pick examples and doubtless some could think of counters (e.g. Konsa, who maybe just had that talent all along), but to my mind the obvious one is Matt Targett, who has gone from a shaky contributor to a player who really knows his role and executes it consistently. Against this, to my mind, is Douglas Luiz, who seems to have gone backwards this year. Perhaps this is just down to himself, but it could also be that Smith doesn't coach the positional play well enough that is so vital in modern top-level midfields.

These are questions we can't really answer perfectly. Everything in football is a gamble - there's a reason we keep referring to this as 'stick or twist' - and we just have to ask ourselves if the improvement we've got really is enough. Because we all remember how MON improved us to a certain level, before his flaws had us bumping our heads against a ceiling that we've never yet reached again.

Absolutely. On Luiz I think it's that the balance in midfield just isn't working because however we've been setup for the last 3-4 months it's been him, McGinn and someone who is struggling in as a 3rd and that has led to both of them under-performing for most of that time.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: sickbeggar on May 19, 2021, 10:44:11 AM
			

			

				I don't think its fair to compare Smith to Bielsa, Klopp and Guardiola. I think most people would probably rather have any of those 3 than Smith just in relation to their experience and the stage of their career they're in. Klopp had got Mainz promoted and relegated from the Bundesliga in the length of time Smith has been managing. Guardiola got parachuted into arguably the biggest club in spain in a 2 horse league which probably helps you. Bielsa was winning things almost straight away but even he had 10 years as a coach first. I suppose Bielsa would fit the bill as a "name" manager but whether he'd leave Leeds, or whether bigger clubs than us are eyeing him now is another matter.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Chris Smith on May 19, 2021, 10:55:47 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Monty on May 19, 2021, 09:50:13 AM
Well Bielsa overachieves with his method, whereas Smith arguably achieves par. Which is pretty impressive given the ludicrous competitiveness of the top flight, and there are plenty of managers who'll achieve less and find continuous employment.

It will be interesting to see how, or if, Leeds progress. Will they be able to attract better players to move them on or does the Bielsa style have a ceiling in how far it can go in this country? I feel that players need to absolutely buy into his methods and that might be a barrier as much as it is an incentive.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: DB on May 19, 2021, 10:59:56 AM
			

			

				Who would you take right now then, Smith or Bielsa?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on May 19, 2021, 11:04:47 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: john e on May 19, 2021, 09:04:02 AM
Quote from: ozzjim on May 19, 2021, 07:54:53 AM
I would take Potter over Smith tomorrow. I think Deano is great, I think he has done really well to get us to safety, and then kick on, but if we are as ambitious as claimed, then he needs to be replaced with someone tactically more astute sooner rather than later. Leeds are the prime example of a manager making the difference, they have a decent championship squad with 3-4 good players on top, and Bielsa has extracted every last ounce of ability from them. No way any other manager with that squad gets close to 55 points. Spurs should be offering him the earth on a stick to go there. Problem we have is every manager in the land knows how we will line up every week, the way we will play, the time we will make subs etc. We have no variation, no ability to change things. If Smith is going to kick us on to the top 6 as per the will of the owners, he is going to have to adapt and improve too. 


The saddest bit of this post which makes my heart sink when I read it is the part where are you say every manager in the land knows how we will lineup,knows how we will play and knows when we will make our subs
Dean Smith is no way near as bad as Lambert McLeish and Bruce but that is exactly what They did week after week
There’s a big problem right there

I often see people say Dean is learning on the job and if he is I’ve got no problem but I’d like to see it manifested in tactics and playing formations on the pitch every so often
The inability to respond to circumstances or  pose tactical challenges is a huge problem and not sure how this gets addressed. Does Smith even accept that he has a problem ?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on May 19, 2021, 11:05:42 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: DB on May 19, 2021, 10:59:56 AM
Who would you take right now then, Smith or Bielsa?
Bielsa.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: sickbeggar on May 19, 2021, 11:08:30 AM
			

			

				If the club shunted Smith off now and unveiled Bielsa, i'd feel sorry for Smith because he's done what I've expected realistically so far in terms of League position, and arguably ahead of time, but i'd be a liar if I said I wouldn't be looking forward to next season with more expectation.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on May 19, 2021, 11:09:51 AM
			

			

				Smith. Absolutely.

He's improving us and there's no need to twist. And even then, I wouldn't have Bielsa; I know he's done some good things but the reality is that he's had 7 clubs in 10 years. Leeds is the longest he's had in that time and most of it has been in the Championship.

When we change, we of course we will, I'd hope it's for someone with a better pedigree.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Monty on May 19, 2021, 11:16:32 AM
			

			

				Bielsa's biggest strength and weakness is that he's a maniac, and generally speaking the higher the expectations the worse he does. As Chris says he needs total buy-in from the players, because if even one part of the system isn't going hell-for-leather all the time then it all falls apart, and it gets harder to expect that from players at the top of the game, especially as it does involve losing 5-2 every now and again.

The thing with replacing Smith is that this isn't Football Manager,  you can't just replace a set of stats with another set of stats and watch your expected league position go up. Teams have atmospheres and cultures and vibes, and when you shake that up you often have no idea how all the pieces will land afterwards. That's why the elite managers these days - Klopp, Pep, Allegri, Conte etc - are the ones considered the safest bets rather than necessarily the most inventive or imaginative (though clearly in Pep's case he combines it all). Replacing Smith with Bielsa, which by the way I think is incredibly unlikely for all sorts of reason, would for me represent an unacceptable risk, no matter how exciting it would be on paper.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Hockley Lion on May 19, 2021, 11:48:28 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: paul_e on May 19, 2021, 10:06:27 AM
Quote from: Monty on May 19, 2021, 09:50:13 AM
Well Bielsa overachieves with his method, whereas Smith arguably achieves par. Which is pretty impressive given the ludicrous competitiveness of the top flight, and there are plenty of managers who'll achieve less and find continuous employment.

Which is a fairer assessment, Smith isn't a worse manager than Bielsa, Klopp or Guardiola because he has a system he likes to stick to and he doesn't experiment enough. He doesn't have their experience and isn't as creative in how he sets up a system which is why they're all world class managers and he's not. That doesn't mean he can't still take us forward, we've all seen how this team can play at their best and it's the best football I've seen from a villa team in years (probably since Atkinson).

The performances against Liverpool and Arsenal set a benchmark, we can either be disappointed that we haven't matched that consistently enough since (it's been flashes here and there during games) or we can be optimistic that as the squad improves that consistency will come and we'll be better next year.

I absolutely agree with this. My pint for one is half full, not half empty.
Utv
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: sickbeggar on May 19, 2021, 12:06:01 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Monty on May 19, 2021, 11:16:32 AM
Bielsa's biggest strength and weakness is that he's a maniac, and generally speaking the higher the expectations the worse he does. As Chris says he needs total buy-in from the players, because if even one part of the system isn't going hell-for-leather all the time then it all falls apart, and it gets harder to expect that from players at the top of the game, especially as it does involve losing 5-2 every now and again.

The thing with replacing Smith is that this isn't Football Manager,  you can't just replace a set of stats with another set of stats and watch your expected league position go up. Teams have atmospheres and cultures and vibes, and when you shake that up you often have no idea how all the pieces will land afterwards. That's why the elite managers these days - Klopp, Pep, Allegri, Conte etc - are the ones considered the safest bets rather than necessarily the most inventive or imaginative (though clearly in Pep's case he combines it all). Replacing Smith with Bielsa, which by the way I think is incredibly unlikely for all sorts of reason, would for me represent an unacceptable risk, no matter how exciting it would be on paper.

That's pretty much spot on. Careful what you wish for...…. Still, it wouldn't be dull.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on May 19, 2021, 12:14:33 PM
			

			

				Bielsa has turned a no-mark, journeyman striker like Bamford into one of the Premier League's top scorers, with 16 goals and 7 assists.  I think give him some money to spend and top talent to work with and Leeds will be a real force.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Monty on May 19, 2021, 12:18:55 PM
			

			

				Lack of dullness would be absolutely guaranteed, and I'm not saying he'd fail or anything, I've been a fan of Bielsa for years and years. I'm just saying that a) I don't think he'd leave Leeds to come here, and b) he does have something of a reputation for chaos that may not suit us, especially if you've done something as disruptive as firing Dean Smith after three seasons of consistent improvement.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Hockley Lion on May 19, 2021, 12:22:27 PM
			

			

				Smith. League position doesn't lie and with Jack injured so long I think it's a good position.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on May 19, 2021, 12:25:00 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Hockley Lion on May 19, 2021, 12:22:27 PM
Smith. League position doesn't lie and with Jack injured so long I think it's a good position.

You're correct that league position doesn't lie. Leeds are 8th in their first season back.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Dave P on May 19, 2021, 12:27:58 PM
			

			

				People are saying the same things about Bielsa now that they were saying about Chris Wilder last season.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Monty on May 19, 2021, 12:28:59 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Dave P on May 19, 2021, 12:27:58 PM
People are saying the same things about Bielsa now that they were saying about Chris Wilder last season.

If you ignore the decades-long career of being one of the most influential coaches in modern history, sure.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: nick harper on May 19, 2021, 12:29:50 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: ChicagoLion on May 19, 2021, 11:04:47 AM
Quote from: john e on May 19, 2021, 09:04:02 AM
Quote from: ozzjim on May 19, 2021, 07:54:53 AM
I would take Potter over Smith tomorrow. I think Deano is great, I think he has done really well to get us to safety, and then kick on, but if we are as ambitious as claimed, then he needs to be replaced with someone tactically more astute sooner rather than later. Leeds are the prime example of a manager making the difference, they have a decent championship squad with 3-4 good players on top, and Bielsa has extracted every last ounce of ability from them. No way any other manager with that squad gets close to 55 points. Spurs should be offering him the earth on a stick to go there. Problem we have is every manager in the land knows how we will line up every week, the way we will play, the time we will make subs etc. We have no variation, no ability to change things. If Smith is going to kick us on to the top 6 as per the will of the owners, he is going to have to adapt and improve too. 


The saddest bit of this post which makes my heart sink when I read it is the part where are you say every manager in the land knows how we will lineup,knows how we will play and knows when we will make our subs
Dean Smith is no way near as bad as Lambert McLeish and Bruce but that is exactly what They did week after week
There’s a big problem right there

I often see people say Dean is learning on the job and if he is I’ve got no problem but I’d like to see it manifested in tactics and playing formations on the pitch every so often
The inability to respond to circumstances or  pose tactical challenges is a huge problem and not sure how this gets addressed. Does Smith even accept that he has a problem ?

This where I get frustrated if I’m honest. I expect Smith and the coaches will have watched Sundays game this week and analysed how the game slipped away from us, how we lost control of the midfield, the wide players drifted out of the game, Watkins couldn’t get the ball to stick, and Eze found ever bigger holes to exploit. Would they not look at what tactical changes in shape or personnel they might have made to turn things round, or do they think Palace just pressed us better and there was nothing we could have done?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on May 19, 2021, 12:32:05 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: nick harper on May 19, 2021, 12:29:50 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on May 19, 2021, 11:04:47 AM
Quote from: john e on May 19, 2021, 09:04:02 AM
Quote from: ozzjim on May 19, 2021, 07:54:53 AM
I would take Potter over Smith tomorrow. I think Deano is great, I think he has done really well to get us to safety, and then kick on, but if we are as ambitious as claimed, then he needs to be replaced with someone tactically more astute sooner rather than later. Leeds are the prime example of a manager making the difference, they have a decent championship squad with 3-4 good players on top, and Bielsa has extracted every last ounce of ability from them. No way any other manager with that squad gets close to 55 points. Spurs should be offering him the earth on a stick to go there. Problem we have is every manager in the land knows how we will line up every week, the way we will play, the time we will make subs etc. We have no variation, no ability to change things. If Smith is going to kick us on to the top 6 as per the will of the owners, he is going to have to adapt and improve too. 


The saddest bit of this post which makes my heart sink when I read it is the part where are you say every manager in the land knows how we will lineup,knows how we will play and knows when we will make our subs
Dean Smith is no way near as bad as Lambert McLeish and Bruce but that is exactly what They did week after week
There’s a big problem right there

I often see people say Dean is learning on the job and if he is I’ve got no problem but I’d like to see it manifested in tactics and playing formations on the pitch every so often
The inability to respond to circumstances or  pose tactical challenges is a huge problem and not sure how this gets addressed. Does Smith even accept that he has a problem ?

This where I get frustrated if I’m honest. I expect Smith and the coaches will have watched Sundays game this week and analysed how the game slipped away from us, how we lost control of the midfield, the wide players drifted out of the game, Watkins couldn’t get the ball to stick, and Eze found ever bigger holes to exploit. Would they not look at what tactical changes in shape or personnel they might have made to turn things round, or do they think Palace just pressed us better and there was nothing we could have done?
it happens so frequently you would think that they would come up with a strategy that isn't more of the same by now.

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Smithy on May 19, 2021, 12:36:18 PM
			

			

				Bielsa has been in charge of Leeds for six months longer than Dean has for us, and had one extra full pre-season of work and transfers with his club.

Bielsa took over a side that had just finished 13th in the Championship.  Dean took over a side that was 14th in the Championship.

Bielsa is clearly a very good manager, with a great track record.  Dean Smith is also a pretty good manager, with a pretty good track record at Aston Villa.

How will they both do next season? Who knows. Leeds might be the next Sheff Utd (remember this time last year when Chris Wilder was hailed as a genius?). Leeds might also be the next Leicester, with a maverick foreign manager who speaks little English leading them to an unlikely title charge.

I certainly don't think Bielsa would represent a 100% cast-iron guarantee of a better season next year, than the one we will get with Dean in charge.  There are probably only two or three managers in world football that I'd swap him for right now, and they're all at top clubs and winning titles, so it's not going to happen.  

The bar for who I'd be happy to replace him with is pretty high right now, but obviously becomes a little lower once we're no longer progressing, but while we are progressing, short of Pep wanting a new challenge, I don't want anyone else in charge.

I still think we could be sat here this time next season looking forward to an assault on Europe with a Villa fan managing the team and a Villa fan captaining it.  I don't think it could be much better than that.  And I'm 100% happy giving Dean the chance to make that happen.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Smithy on May 19, 2021, 12:40:39 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Monty on May 19, 2021, 12:28:59 PM
Quote from: Dave P on May 19, 2021, 12:27:58 PM
People are saying the same things about Bielsa now that they were saying about Chris Wilder last season.

If you ignore the decades-long career of being one of the most influential coaches in modern history, sure.

Yes, but apart from the Championship trophy with Leeds last season, the last time he actually won something Dean Smith was still playing and six years away from retirement.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Toronto Villa on May 19, 2021, 12:44:50 PM
			

			

				Bielsa had a chance to mould his squad in the Championship whereas Dean got us promoted and lost a load of players and had to do rebuild us in the PL. It had to have helped Bielsa doing that at a lower level. 

The big season now for both is next. Dean Smith will be supported again in the summer with a lot of money and he won’t have any excuses if we are not at least challenging for a top 8 position. Bielsa will need to now add PL level players to what he has and it will be intriguing to see how much he gets to work with to do that. Otherwise irrespective of how good he is they will regress if they don’t improve. And also how those players are integrated into the system he has at Leeds. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Nunkin1965 on May 19, 2021, 12:47:01 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Smithy on May 19, 2021, 12:36:18 PM
Bielsa has been in charge of Leeds for six months longer than Dean has for us, and had one extra full pre-season of work and transfers with his club.

Bielsa took over a side that had just finished 13th in the Championship.  Dean took over a side that was 14th in the Championship.

Bielsa is clearly a very good manager, with a great track record.  Dean Smith is also a pretty good manager, with a pretty good track record at Aston Villa.

How will they both do next season? Who knows. Leeds might be the next Sheff Utd (remember this time last year when Chris Wilder was hailed as a genius?). Leeds might also be the next Leicester, with a maverick foreign manager who speaks little English leading them to an unlikely title charge.

I certainly don't think Bielsa would represent a 100% cast-iron guarantee of a better season next year, than the one we will get with Dean in charge.  There are probably only two or three managers in world football that I'd swap him for right now, and they're all at top clubs and winning titles, so it's not going to happen.  

The bar for who I'd be happy to replace him with is pretty high right now, but obviously becomes a little lower once we're no longer progressing, but while we are progressing, short of Pep wanting a new challenge, I don't want anyone else in charge.

I still think we could be sat here this time next season looking forward to an assault on Europe with a Villa fan managing the team and a Villa fan captaining it.  I don't think it could be much better than that.  And I'm 100% happy giving Dean the chance to make that happen.

Exactly where I am in this debate.
Our owners are clearly happy to give Smith the summer to develop the squad and progress further. 
It's not quick enough for some and I accept that but it's nowhere near the time to think about changing the structure.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on May 19, 2021, 12:47:31 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Dave P on May 19, 2021, 12:27:58 PM
People are saying the same things about Bielsa now that they were saying about Chris Wilder last season.

Completely different. Wilder did brilliantly to extract every last bit of value out of his squad in their first year back, but there's only so far you can take a Championship squad before spending big. He was hung out to dry a bit this year by his board, with their only real acquisitions being a replacement goalie and a mostly untried kid up front. Not surprisingly it wasn't nearly enough.  Leeds have got enough good young players to have another successful season next year, and I would think that they'll add to the squad as well.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on May 19, 2021, 12:49:10 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Nunkin1965 on May 19, 2021, 12:47:01 PM
Our owners are clearly happy to give Smith the summer to develop the squad and progress further. 
It's not quick enough for some and I accept that but it's nowhere near the time to think about changing the structure.

No offence, but how do you know what the owners are thinking one way or the other? They might be delighted with progress, slightly miffed about how the season has tailed off, or planning to bin Smith shortly after the Chelsea game for all you know.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: sickbeggar on May 19, 2021, 12:56:11 PM
			

			

				I doubt they plan to bin him yet. If they were like that then they wouldn't have employed him in the first place
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Monty on May 19, 2021, 01:12:27 PM
			

			

				I'd lose a bit of respect for the owners if they did already plan to sack him, but I'd also lose a bit of respect if they hadn't thought about it. They do have to bear in mind both the commitment to a long-term plan and the need to not ignore warning signs on the pitch.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on May 19, 2021, 01:23:02 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: sickbeggar on May 19, 2021, 12:56:11 PM
I doubt they plan to bin him yet. If they were like that then they wouldn't have employed him in the first place

Why? They took over with the club in a mess and a need to get out of the Championship. The job now is to become a nailed on, top 6 club. The person who did the first bit is not necessarily the same as the person needed for the next bit.  And they were extremely close to binning him last year before the pandemic struck.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Nunkin1965 on May 19, 2021, 01:23:55 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on May 19, 2021, 12:49:10 PM
Quote from: Nunkin1965 on May 19, 2021, 12:47:01 PM
Our owners are clearly happy to give Smith the summer to develop the squad and progress further. 
It's not quick enough for some and I accept that but it's nowhere near the time to think about changing the structure.

No offence, but how do you know what the owners are thinking one way or the other? They might be delighted with progress, slightly miffed about how the season has tailed off, or planning to bin Smith shortly after the Chelsea game for all you know.

That's true but I'd be surprised if they made that decision. 
If this season had been poor overall then yes I'd say that a decision would be made.
But over 38 games we'll finish mid table.
Do you think they will change the structure then?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Toronto Villa on May 19, 2021, 01:29:20 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: sickbeggar on May 19, 2021, 12:56:11 PM
I doubt they plan to bin him yet. If they were like that then they wouldn't have employed him in the first place

Why do you suppose blokes, as lovely as they appear to be, who have made as much they have in business over their lives, and have lashed out as much as they have on our club, would suddenly become soft and sentimental if things didn’t go the way the want? And I have no doubt they appreciate there is a process and have challenged Purslow to manage that to set targets, but I am sure if there isn’t tangible evidence of meeting them they will make the changes required. The goals that were set two years have no bearing on where the club needs to be headed now.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Nunkin1965 on May 19, 2021, 01:34:36 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Toronto Villa on May 19, 2021, 01:29:20 PM
Quote from: sickbeggar on May 19, 2021, 12:56:11 PM
I doubt they plan to bin him yet. If they were like that then they wouldn't have employed him in the first place

Why do you suppose blokes, as lovely as they appear to be, who have made as much they have in business over their lives, and have lashed out as much as they have on our club, would suddenly become soft and sentimental if things didn’t go the way the want? And I have no doubt they appreciate there is a process and have challenged Purslow to manage that to set targets, but I am sure if there isn’t tangible evidence of meeting them they will make the changes required. The goals that were set two years have no bearing on where the club needs to be headed now.

So you're suggestion is that sometime after Chelsea at home the owners will decide to sack Smith because he's failed?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Toronto Villa on May 19, 2021, 01:38:15 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Nunkin1965 on May 19, 2021, 01:34:36 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on May 19, 2021, 01:29:20 PM
Quote from: sickbeggar on May 19, 2021, 12:56:11 PM
I doubt they plan to bin him yet. If they were like that then they wouldn't have employed him in the first place

Why do you suppose blokes, as lovely as they appear to be, who have made as much they have in business over their lives, and have lashed out as much as they have on our club, would suddenly become soft and sentimental if things didn’t go the way the want? And I have no doubt they appreciate there is a process and have challenged Purslow to manage that to set targets, but I am sure if there isn’t tangible evidence of meeting them they will make the changes required. The goals that were set two years have no bearing on where the club needs to be headed now.

So you're suggestion is that sometime after Chelsea at home the owners will decide to sack Smith because he's failed?

Why after the Chelsea game? He hasn’t failed this season as disappointing as our results have been since the new year. Overall he’s improved the club every season he’s been here. But he’ll be expected to do so again next year or else, yes, he could very well be fired.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: sickbeggar on May 19, 2021, 01:38:49 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on May 19, 2021, 01:23:02 PM
Quote from: sickbeggar on May 19, 2021, 12:56:11 PM
I doubt they plan to bin him yet. If they were like that then they wouldn't have employed him in the first place

Why? They took over with the club in a mess and a need to get out of the Championship. The job now is to become a nailed on, top 6 club. The person who did the first bit is not necessarily the same as the person needed for the next bit.  And they were extremely close to binning him last year before the pandemic struck.

Maybe but I think if you have a set in stone plan like Yr1 Promotion YR Survival Yr3 8th etc... then you wouldn't have selected Smith for it. He was hardly Mr Guaranteed Promotion IMO.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Toronto Villa on May 19, 2021, 01:41:44 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: sickbeggar on May 19, 2021, 01:38:49 PM
Quote from: Risso on May 19, 2021, 01:23:02 PM
Quote from: sickbeggar on May 19, 2021, 12:56:11 PM
I doubt they plan to bin him yet. If they were like that then they wouldn't have employed him in the first place

Why? They took over with the club in a mess and a need to get out of the Championship. The job now is to become a nailed on, top 6 club. The person who did the first bit is not necessarily the same as the person needed for the next bit.  And they were extremely close to binning him last year before the pandemic struck.

Maybe but I think if you have a set in stone plan like Yr1 Promotion YR Survival Yr3 8th etc... then you wouldn't have selected Smith for it. He was hardly Mr Guaranteed Promotion IMO.

I don’t think promotion was the expectation in his first year. Purslow I believe said we were ahead of that schedule when Smith surprisingly got us up. Doesn’t mean having accomplished that the longer term goals aren’t changed. But survival in the PL was very likely the first goal having got promoted. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: LeeB on May 19, 2021, 01:42:12 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: sickbeggar on May 19, 2021, 01:38:49 PM
Quote from: Risso on May 19, 2021, 01:23:02 PM
Quote from: sickbeggar on May 19, 2021, 12:56:11 PM
I doubt they plan to bin him yet. If they were like that then they wouldn't have employed him in the first place

Why? They took over with the club in a mess and a need to get out of the Championship. The job now is to become a nailed on, top 6 club. The person who did the first bit is not necessarily the same as the person needed for the next bit.  And they were extremely close to binning him last year before the pandemic struck.

Maybe but I think if you have a set in stone plan like Yr1 Promotion YR Survival Yr3 8th etc... then you wouldn't have selected Smith for it. He was hardly Mr Guaranteed Promotion IMO.

No, and we had to sack Mr Guaranteed Promotion to bring him in.

Your football posts are better than your political ones, btw.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Dave P on May 19, 2021, 01:48:05 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on May 19, 2021, 12:47:31 PM
Quote from: Dave P on May 19, 2021, 12:27:58 PM
People are saying the same things about Bielsa now that they were saying about Chris Wilder last season.

Completely different. Wilder did brilliantly to extract every last bit of value out of his squad in their first year back, but there's only so far you can take a Championship squad before spending big. He was hung out to dry a bit this year by his board, with their only real acquisitions being a replacement goalie and a mostly untried kid up front. Not surprisingly it wasn't nearly enough.  Leeds have got enough good young players to have another successful season next year, and I would think that they'll add to the squad as well.

Sheffield United spent big to build on last season.  Brewster was over £20m, Ramsdale was over £18m and Oliver Burke was nearly £6m.  Leeds will need to spend £100m at least to improve on this season whereas I think we have a squad that should be higher but we'll spend £100m+ as well.

Granted, this doesn't add much to the 'Is Dean Smith a good coach' debate.  I'm just saying that Bielsa and Smith still need to prove themselves as top Premier League managers long term.  Wilder fell from the wayside somewhat.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Nelly on May 19, 2021, 01:48:18 PM
			

			

				We stayed up by the skin of our teeth last season, for me regardless of what other clubs and managers are doing, for us to finish mid-table is still excellent progress. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Nunkin1965 on May 19, 2021, 01:51:29 PM
			

			

				
{alt}
Quote from: Toronto Villa on May 19, 2021, 01:38:15 PM
Quote from: Nunkin1965 on May 19, 2021, 01:34:36 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on May 19, 2021, 01:29:20 PM
Quote from: sickbeggar on May 19, 2021, 12:56:11 PM
I doubt they plan to bin him yet. If they were like that then they wouldn't have employed him in the first place

Why do you suppose blokes, as lovely as they appear to be, who have made as much they have in business over their lives, and have lashed out as much as they have on our club, would suddenly become soft and sentimental if things didn’t go the way the want? And I have no doubt they appreciate there is a process and have challenged Purslow to manage that to set targets, but I am sure if there isn’t tangible evidence of meeting them they will make the changes required. The goals that were set two years have no bearing on where the club needs to be headed now.

So you're suggestion is that sometime after Chelsea at home the owners will decide to sack Smith because he's failed?

Why after the Chelsea game? He hasn’t failed this season as disappointing as our results have been since the new year. Overall he’s improved the club every season he’s been here. But he’ll be expected to do so again next year or else, yes, he could very well be fired.

That's inevitable. 
However well or however badly Smith does.
Victim of success or of failure only time will tell.
I just can't see it happening in the summer 
though.

If you asked most outside this fanbase about sacking Smith I'd imagine the most popular answer would be 
Wtf. He's been without his best player for 3 months.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: sickbeggar on May 19, 2021, 01:53:48 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Toronto Villa on May 19, 2021, 01:41:44 PM
Quote from: sickbeggar on May 19, 2021, 01:38:49 PM
Quote from: Risso on May 19, 2021, 01:23:02 PM
Quote from: sickbeggar on May 19, 2021, 12:56:11 PM
I doubt they plan to bin him yet. If they were like that then they wouldn't have employed him in the first place

Why? They took over with the club in a mess and a need to get out of the Championship. The job now is to become a nailed on, top 6 club. The person who did the first bit is not necessarily the same as the person needed for the next bit.  And they were extremely close to binning him last year before the pandemic struck.

Maybe but I think if you have a set in stone plan like Yr1 Promotion YR Survival Yr3 8th etc... then you wouldn't have selected Smith for it. He was hardly Mr Guaranteed Promotion IMO.

I don’t think promotion was the expectation in his first year. Purslow I believe said we were ahead of that schedule when Smith surprisingly got us up. Doesn’t mean having accomplished that the longer term goals aren’t changed. But survival in the PL was very likely the first goal having got promoted.

Well I heard that too, so that would sort of hints he's ahead of their plan. Personally I don't think they have anything like as restrictive in place other than get up and survive during the length of his contract, as those sort of plans almost always go tits-up. Under constant revision I would guess
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Toronto Villa on May 19, 2021, 02:00:09 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Nunkin1965 on May 19, 2021, 01:51:29 PM
{alt}
Quote from: Toronto Villa on May 19, 2021, 01:38:15 PM
Quote from: Nunkin1965 on May 19, 2021, 01:34:36 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on May 19, 2021, 01:29:20 PM
Quote from: sickbeggar on May 19, 2021, 12:56:11 PM
I doubt they plan to bin him yet. If they were like that then they wouldn't have employed him in the first place

Why do you suppose blokes, as lovely as they appear to be, who have made as much they have in business over their lives, and have lashed out as much as they have on our club, would suddenly become soft and sentimental if things didn’t go the way the want? And I have no doubt they appreciate there is a process and have challenged Purslow to manage that to set targets, but I am sure if there isn’t tangible evidence of meeting them they will make the changes required. The goals that were set two years have no bearing on where the club needs to be headed now.

So you're suggestion is that sometime after Chelsea at home the owners will decide to sack Smith because he's failed?

Why after the Chelsea game? He hasn’t failed this season as disappointing as our results have been since the new year. Overall he’s improved the club every season he’s been here. But he’ll be expected to do so again next year or else, yes, he could very well be fired.

That's inevitable. 
However well or however badly Smith does.
Victim of success or of failure only time will tell.
I just can't see it happening in the summer 
though.

If you asked most outside this fanbase about sacking Smith I'd imagine the most popular answer would be 
Wtf. He's been without his best player for 3 months.

There isn’t a chance in hell he’ll be fired this summer. But if we spend big and we start next season poorly, he may not be Villa manager come November.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Nunkin1965 on May 19, 2021, 02:03:10 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Toronto Villa on May 19, 2021, 02:00:09 PM
Quote from: Nunkin1965 on May 19, 2021, 01:51:29 PM
{alt}
Quote from: Toronto Villa on May 19, 2021, 01:38:15 PM
Quote from: Nunkin1965 on May 19, 2021, 01:34:36 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on May 19, 2021, 01:29:20 PM
Quote from: sickbeggar on May 19, 2021, 12:56:11 PM
I doubt they plan to bin him yet. If they were like that then they wouldn't have employed him in the first place

Why do you suppose blokes, as lovely as they appear to be, who have made as much they have in business over their lives, and have lashed out as much as they have on our club, would suddenly become soft and sentimental if things didn’t go the way the want? And I have no doubt they appreciate there is a process and have challenged Purslow to manage that to set targets, but I am sure if there isn’t tangible evidence of meeting them they will make the changes required. The goals that were set two years have no bearing on where the club needs to be headed now.

So you're suggestion is that sometime after Chelsea at home the owners will decide to sack Smith because he's failed?

Why after the Chelsea game? He hasn’t failed this season as disappointing as our results have been since the new year. Overall he’s improved the club every season he’s been here. But he’ll be expected to do so again next year or else, yes, he could very well be fired.

That's inevitable. 
However well or however badly Smith does.
Victim of success or of failure only time will tell.
I just can't see it happening in the summer 
though.

If you asked most outside this fanbase about sacking Smith I'd imagine the most popular answer would be 
Wtf. He's been without his best player for 3 months.

There isn’t a chance in hell he’ll be fired this summer. But if we spend big and we start next season poorly, he may not be Villa manager come November.

I can't disagree with you.
Hell need to show progression and he's fortunate that he has financial backing plus a crop of talented young stars to choose from.
Target of top 6-8 position maybe??
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Toronto Villa on May 19, 2021, 02:07:29 PM
			

			

				I would say qualifying for the Europa is a must next season. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on May 19, 2021, 02:13:08 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Toronto Villa on May 19, 2021, 02:07:29 PM
I would say qualifying for the Europa is a must next season.

For you or the owners?

If we finish 7th that's still progression and may well not be enough for Europa. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: sickbeggar on May 19, 2021, 02:17:11 PM
			

			

				Even MON didn't manage 5th with all his millions. I'd settle for challenging given the teams playing for it. Tough crowd...
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: sid1964 on May 19, 2021, 02:23:27 PM
			

			

				Read a bit of the Smith Interview - if I were Grealish I would want another increase because even Smith says that without him we are not able to win games on a regular basis!

Our other players must feel as though they are just bit part players in the team.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Brend'Watkins on May 19, 2021, 02:39:29 PM
			

			

				Well, five or six of them are for sure.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Smithy on May 19, 2021, 02:40:34 PM
			

			

				It does feel like some people have the perception that our owners - being as rich as they are - are demanding to see Chelsea and Man City style turnarounds from the club we were three years ago.  I don't think they are, just progress towards that level.

What people forget is that both Man City and Chelsea got to do their first few years of that transformation without any financial fair play restrictions.  Man City were spending about £150m a year on players for three years before the FFP regulations came in (for comparison our entire turnover was about £80m in those days).  In City's first 12 months, they bought five players over £25m - and that's at the prices paid 12 years ago. That's a level of spending we're trying to achieve today, over a decade later.  And it STILL took City three years to go from mid-table to winning a title.

The point I'm making is that I have no doubt whatsoever that our owners are ambitious, but I am also very confident that they appreciate the environment we're now competing in, and that throwing a couple of hundred million at a team does not guarantee you instant success. But it should guarantee you progress.

I think they'll be disappointed the way the season has petered out after such a bright start (as we all are), but I also think they'll chalk the season up as 'progress' before demanding similar improvement again next season.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: algy on May 19, 2021, 02:42:08 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Drummond on May 19, 2021, 02:13:08 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on May 19, 2021, 02:07:29 PM
I would say qualifying for the Europa is a must next season.

For you or the owners?

If we finish 7th that's still progression and may well not be enough for Europa.
Yep, I agree - in a way we've done the 'easy' part of the Premier League, which is getting to mid table.  But if you look above us in the table, you've maybe got Leeds & West Ham who may well drop off next season, but after that there's a big ramp up in quality.  You've got Arsenal/Everton/Spurs all battling for 6th, then five clubs (Manc City, Manc Utd, Chelsea, Leicester, Liverpool) who I really don't think it's reasonable to expect us to outperform next season.

I dunno - I definitely think we need to target Europe next season, but I'm not sure qualification is a completely make-or-break situation.  If we start pulling ahead of Everton and Arsenal, I'll be pretty chuffed even if we don't get in to Europe.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Smithy on May 19, 2021, 02:47:38 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Drummond on May 19, 2021, 02:13:08 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on May 19, 2021, 02:07:29 PM
I would say qualifying for the Europa is a must next season.

For you or the owners?

If we finish 7th that's still progression and may well not be enough for Europa. 

Indeed. I said it a few days ago, but it's much easier to go from 17th to 11th, than it is to go from 11th to European football.

That's not to say it shouldn't be the target - it absolutely should - and I remain confident we'll be in the mix for the European places next season, but I can't sit here right now and say that not qualifying for Europe next season will be "a failure".

Jack might, however, and that's a very important factor.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: sickbeggar on May 19, 2021, 02:57:44 PM
			

			

				Points win prizes. We're 14 points or so above last season. Another 10 or so would put us into the mix for Europe hopefully. I don't think that would be totally unrealistic. Better than setting a 7th or 6th target
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Toronto Villa on May 19, 2021, 03:27:32 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Drummond on May 19, 2021, 02:13:08 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on May 19, 2021, 02:07:29 PM
I would say qualifying for the Europa is a must next season.

For you or the owners?

If we finish 7th that's still progression and may well not be enough for Europa. 

I would imagine if the owners of this team who have spent hundreds of millions since acquiring the club, saving it from extinction, buying 12 players in year one or whatever it was, spending north of 100m last summer and will l likely exceed that again this summer will want to finish 10th (which is going to be "progress" considering where we will finish this season) if you really want to be particular. I would also like to think Jack Grealish didn't sign on again, sacrificing a move to a side that will actually compete for everything so he can carry on playing mid table PL football while almost all his new international mates are playing European competition. So my guess is that the owners will want to see us have a real good go at qualifying for one of those spots next season. I don't think that is unreasonable for them or for us supporters. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Hockley Lion on May 19, 2021, 03:27:54 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on May 19, 2021, 12:25:00 PM
Quote from: Hockley Lion on May 19, 2021, 12:22:27 PM
Smith. League position doesn't lie and with Jack injured so long I think it's a good position.

You're correct that league position doesn't lie. Leeds are 8th in their first season back.

Yes, and they've played 37 games and moved up 2 places overnight from 10th. Those below them  have played 36.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Mister E on May 19, 2021, 03:27:58 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Dave P on May 19, 2021, 01:48:05 PM
Quote from: Risso on May 19, 2021, 12:47:31 PM
Quote from: Dave P on May 19, 2021, 12:27:58 PM
People are saying the same things about Bielsa now that they were saying about Chris Wilder last season.
Completely different. Wilder did brilliantly to extract every last bit of value out of his squad in their first year back, but there's only so far you can take a Championship squad before spending big. He was hung out to dry a bit this year by his board, with their only real acquisitions being a replacement goalie and a mostly untried kid up front. Not surprisingly it wasn't nearly enough.  Leeds have got enough good young players to have another successful season next year, and I would think that they'll add to the squad as well.
Sheffield United spent big to build on last season.  Brewster was over £20m, Ramsdale was over £18m and Oliver Burke was nearly £6m.  Leeds will need to spend £100m at least to improve on this season whereas I think we have a squad that should be higher but we'll spend £100m+ as well.
Granted, this doesn't add much to the 'Is Dean Smith a good coach' debate.  I'm just saying that Bielsa and Smith still need to prove themselves as top Premier League managers long term.  Wilder fell from the wayside somewhat.
As an aside, Leeds spent around £100m last summer, so their success has come as a 'build' on their promotion squad: it's not all homegrown.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on May 19, 2021, 03:35:12 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Mister E on May 19, 2021, 03:27:58 PM
Quote from: Dave P on May 19, 2021, 01:48:05 PM
Quote from: Risso on May 19, 2021, 12:47:31 PM
Quote from: Dave P on May 19, 2021, 12:27:58 PM
People are saying the same things about Bielsa now that they were saying about Chris Wilder last season.
Completely different. Wilder did brilliantly to extract every last bit of value out of his squad in their first year back, but there's only so far you can take a Championship squad before spending big. He was hung out to dry a bit this year by his board, with their only real acquisitions being a replacement goalie and a mostly untried kid up front. Not surprisingly it wasn't nearly enough.  Leeds have got enough good young players to have another successful season next year, and I would think that they'll add to the squad as well.
Sheffield United spent big to build on last season.  Brewster was over £20m, Ramsdale was over £18m and Oliver Burke was nearly £6m.  Leeds will need to spend £100m at least to improve on this season whereas I think we have a squad that should be higher but we'll spend £100m+ as well.
Granted, this doesn't add much to the 'Is Dean Smith a good coach' debate.  I'm just saying that Bielsa and Smith still need to prove themselves as top Premier League managers long term.  Wilder fell from the wayside somewhat.
As an aside, Leeds spent around £100m last summer, so their success has come as a 'build' on their promotion squad: it's not all homegrown.

True but they will have a lot more of their promotion squad still with them by the start of next season than we did at the start of this one.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: kipeye on May 19, 2021, 03:45:00 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Smithy on May 19, 2021, 02:40:34 PM
It does feel like some people have the perception that our owners - being as rich as they are - are demanding to see Chelsea and Man City style turnarounds from the club we were three years ago.  I don't think they are, just progress towards that level.

What people forget is that both Man City and Chelsea got to do their first few years of that transformation without any financial fair play restrictions.  Man City were spending about £150m a year on players for three years before the FFP regulations came in (for comparison our entire turnover was about £80m in those days).  In City's first 12 months, they bought five players over £25m - and that's at the prices paid 12 years ago. That's a level of spending we're trying to achieve today, over a decade later.  And it STILL took City three years to go from mid-table to winning a title.

The point I'm making is that I have no doubt whatsoever that our owners are ambitious, but I am also very confident that they appreciate the environment we're now competing in, and that throwing a couple of hundred million at a team does not guarantee you instant success. But it should guarantee you progress.

I think they'll be disappointed the way the season has petered out after such a bright start (as we all are), but I also think they'll chalk the season up as 'progress' before demanding similar improvement again next season.
 Agree with every single word here. Not concerned about not qualifying for Europe as that is a poisoned chalice in itself. However, when we have improved further, maybe two seasons away- we should be looking to Champions League qualification as the target.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on May 19, 2021, 03:46:59 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Toronto Villa on May 19, 2021, 03:27:32 PM
Quote from: Drummond on May 19, 2021, 02:13:08 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on May 19, 2021, 02:07:29 PM
I would say qualifying for the Europa is a must next season.

For you or the owners?

If we finish 7th that's still progression and may well not be enough for Europa. 

I would imagine if the owners of this team who have spent hundreds of millions since acquiring the club, saving it from extinction, buying 12 players in year one or whatever it was, spending north of 100m last summer and will l likely exceed that again this summer will want to finish 10th (which is going to be "progress" considering where we will finish this season) if you really want to be particular. I would also like to think Jack Grealish didn't sign on again, sacrificing a move to a side that will actually compete for everything so he can carry on playing mid table PL football while almost all his new international mates are playing European competition. So my guess is that the owners will want to see us have a real good go at qualifying for one of those spots next season. I don't think that is unreasonable for them or for us supporters.

No, I don't want to 'be particular' but we've progressed 6 places on last season, and 6 on the final position from the season before and Smith had already improved us by 12 places after he took over to get that finishing spot.

10th probably won't be good enough, 8th in my view absolutely would.

Man City, Man Utd, Chelsea, Leicester, Liverpool and Tottenham are teams who are streets ahead in time, performance and squad value. They're all pretty much big spenders too aren't they? Then you've got Arsenal and Everton who have spent a lot of money and generally finished in those Top 8 places too. You get the odd anomaly, West Ham this, Sheff Utd, Wolves, Leeds, who do well for a season then drop away. I'd hope when we finish up their it's part of sustained improvement. 

So far, we're heading rhe right way, and there's improvement to be had in quality of player, decisions by the manager and investment. But really, stating Europa a a minimum isn't realistic right now.

I will say though, should we spend £260m this summer, I'd think the owners would probably be wanting and expecting at least 8th and maybe you'd be right about Europa.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on May 19, 2021, 03:55:38 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: algy on May 19, 2021, 02:42:08 PM
Quote from: Drummond on May 19, 2021, 02:13:08 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on May 19, 2021, 02:07:29 PM
I would say qualifying for the Europa is a must next season.

For you or the owners?

If we finish 7th that's still progression and may well not be enough for Europa.
Yep, I agree - in a way we've done the 'easy' part of the Premier League, which is getting to mid table.  But if you look above us in the table, you've maybe got Leeds & West Ham who may well drop off next season, but after that there's a big ramp up in quality.  You've got Arsenal/Everton/Spurs all battling for 6th, then five clubs (Manc City, Manc Utd, Chelsea, Leicester, Liverpool) who I really don't think it's reasonable to expect us to outperform next season.

I dunno - I definitely think we need to target Europe next season, but I'm not sure qualification is a completely make-or-break situation.  If we start pulling ahead of Everton and Arsenal, I'll be pretty chuffed even if we don't get in to Europe.

I'd probably add Wolves to the group as I doubt they'll be as poor as they have been this season and Newcastle if they ever get a new owner. So that's 12 or 13 teams fighting to get into the top places. We were the second biggest spenders last summer and joint first with Man U the season before. The owners may not expect us to break into the top six next season but being entertaining might go a long way in justifying their investment. A win tonight would also be a timely reminder of what this squad are about. As Dean rightly says, on our day we are capable of beating anyone. This year those days have been few and far between. Over to you, Dean.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: sickbeggar on May 19, 2021, 04:14:53 PM
			

			

				I do hope this envisaged summer investment materialises because if Dean only buys 2 or 3 players then a few expectations will have to be revised downwards.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Monty on May 19, 2021, 04:19:35 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: sickbeggar on May 19, 2021, 04:14:53 PM
I do hope this envisaged summer investment materialises because if Dean only buys 2 or 3 players then a few expectations will have to revised downwards.

Not if those three players are Kane, Son and Mbappé.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: BC Villain on May 19, 2021, 04:22:27 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Smithy on May 19, 2021, 02:40:34 PM
It does feel like some people have the perception that our owners - being as rich as they are - are demanding to see Chelsea and Man City style turnarounds from the club we were three years ago.  I don't think they are, just progress towards that level.

What people forget is that both Man City and Chelsea got to do their first few years of that transformation without any financial fair play restrictions.  Man City were spending about £150m a year on players for three years before the FFP regulations came in (for comparison our entire turnover was about £80m in those days).  In City's first 12 months, they bought five players over £25m - and that's at the prices paid 12 years ago. That's a level of spending we're trying to achieve today, over a decade later.  And it STILL took City three years to go from mid-table to winning a title.

The point I'm making is that I have no doubt whatsoever that our owners are ambitious, but I am also very confident that they appreciate the environment we're now competing in, and that throwing a couple of hundred million at a team does not guarantee you instant success. But it should guarantee you progress.

I think they'll be disappointed the way the season has petered out after such a bright start (as we all are), but I also think they'll chalk the season up as 'progress' before demanding similar improvement again next season.

I'm not so sure.  Both are very wealthy men who have not been successful without some ruthlessness along the way.  They will want to see a return on their heavy investment soon 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: sickbeggar on May 19, 2021, 04:26:30 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Monty on May 19, 2021, 04:19:35 PM
Quote from: sickbeggar on May 19, 2021, 04:14:53 PM
I do hope this envisaged summer investment materialises because if Dean only buys 2 or 3 players then a few expectations will have to revised downwards.

Not if those three players are Kane, Son and Mbappé.

heh. They would cost 100m in wages alone let alone the transfer fees.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Monty on May 19, 2021, 04:28:25 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: sickbeggar on May 19, 2021, 04:26:30 PM
Quote from: Monty on May 19, 2021, 04:19:35 PM
Quote from: sickbeggar on May 19, 2021, 04:14:53 PM
I do hope this envisaged summer investment materialises because if Dean only buys 2 or 3 players then a few expectations will have to revised downwards.

Not if those three players are Kane, Son and Mbappé.

heh. They would cost 100m in wages alone let alone the transfer fees.

But if our SO-CALLED billionaire owners are SERIOUS they'll put their MONEY where their MOUTHS are.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: sickbeggar on May 19, 2021, 04:38:18 PM
			

			

				Aye. it's Doug all over again. Cornershop mentality.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: edgysatsuma89 on May 19, 2021, 05:47:00 PM
			

			

				I can understand all the debate on both sides on how worried or not we should be about our form in the last 20 or so games. My problem however is his complete tactical inflexibility. I really don't see any B when A isn't working and that's my big issue with him and I don't think it shines him in the greatest light. That's my worry and if better were available I would have no problem with changing. I also however can very likely see cast iron better not being available *shrugs*.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: AllanW on May 19, 2021, 06:11:12 PM
			

			

				Yeah. That 'tactical inflexibility' is one of those irregular verbs, innit?

I back myself to win against anyone. You've gotta have confidence going in.

You give the players your confidence and support to do the business on the pitch.

He's tactically inflexible ...
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: aj2k77 on May 19, 2021, 06:13:27 PM
			

			

				Huge mistake in putting Nakamba back in the team. He can't pass or control a football properly. Poor decision.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: CT on May 19, 2021, 06:30:37 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: aj2k77 on May 19, 2021, 06:13:27 PM
Huge mistake in putting Nakamba back in the team. He can't pass or control a football properly. Poor decision.

Scored a magnificent goal though, definitely on target. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ads on May 19, 2021, 07:57:24 PM
			

			

				Highest points since 2009-10. Excellent work Deano.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Monty on May 19, 2021, 07:58:41 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Ads on May 19, 2021, 07:57:24 PM
Highest points since 2009-10. Excellent work Deano.

Excellent stuff today, and he threw on the youngsters when were under pressure as well, which was great to see.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Jon Crofts on May 19, 2021, 07:59:49 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: aj2k77 on May 19, 2021, 06:13:27 PM
Huge mistake in putting Nakamba back in the team. He can't pass or control a football properly. Poor decision.

Was this an attempt at irony?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ads on May 19, 2021, 07:59:55 PM
			

			

				Chuck looks such a player.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on May 19, 2021, 08:01:06 PM
			

			

				Brilliant work Dean Smith. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: darren woolley on May 19, 2021, 08:01:34 PM
			

			

				I really like the look of Chuck played really well unlucky not to score.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Nunkin1965 on May 19, 2021, 08:02:02 PM
			

			

				Nice one Deano.
Great result.
There's bound to be a negative angle somewhere though right?

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on May 19, 2021, 08:02:22 PM
			

			

				Great stuff from the manager tonight.

Criticised him on Sunday so only fair to see he got it spot on tonight. Luiz on at right time and loved the way he trusted the young kids to see out the game.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Nev on May 19, 2021, 08:03:38 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Nunkin1965 on May 19, 2021, 08:02:02 PM
Nice one Deano.
Great result.
There's bound to be a negative angle somewhere though right?

If Leeds win on Sunday Smith should be sacked.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Steve67 on May 19, 2021, 08:15:15 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: SoccerHQ on May 19, 2021, 08:02:22 PM
Great stuff from the manager tonight.

Criticised him on Sunday so only fair to see he got it spot on tonight. Luiz on at right time and loved the way he trusted the young kids to see out the game.

Dean showed some minerals tonight by picking that team and making those subs.  He got the subs bit spot on.  Credit where it is due.  Brilliant tonight Deano. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: aj2k77 on May 19, 2021, 08:16:02 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Jon Crofts on May 19, 2021, 07:59:49 PM
Quote from: aj2k77 on May 19, 2021, 06:13:27 PM
Huge mistake in putting Nakamba back in the team. He can't pass or control a football properly. Poor decision.

Was this an attempt at irony?

Well that aged well didn't it :D. Much better performance (still don't rate Nakamba though).
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ian. on May 19, 2021, 08:36:02 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: aj2k77 on May 19, 2021, 08:16:02 PM
Quote from: Jon Crofts on May 19, 2021, 07:59:49 PM
Quote from: aj2k77 on May 19, 2021, 06:13:27 PM
Huge mistake in putting Nakamba back in the team. He can't pass or control a football properly. Poor decision.

Was this an attempt at irony?

Well that aged well didn't it :D. Much better performance (still don't rate Nakamba though).
Don’t worry, I doubt he rates you either. ;)
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: caster troy on May 19, 2021, 08:41:27 PM
			

			

				He got it spot on today. Brave substitutions and hopefully he enjoyed Carney and Jaden's cameos as much as I did. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Baldy on May 19, 2021, 08:46:04 PM
			

			

				Great to see Deano more animated on the touchline, shouting at players and the officials, experimenting with the line up and giving the youngsters a debut.

Well done Deano, you won us that game. There is more than one way to peel a Spud.  :) 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on May 19, 2021, 09:28:34 PM
			

			

				Liverpool, Leicester, Everton, Arsenal, Tottenham, Leeds, West Ham. All teams above us that we've beaten this season.

It's only the top 3 that we haven't managed to beat and there's a chance that could be just the top 2 by Sunday evening.

It shows what could have been and how much better we can be. We've not had results like that against the teams above us for so long! 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on May 19, 2021, 09:32:30 PM
			

			

				good win, we are a different team with Grealish in the side
if he hadn't been out for 11 games i think we would be in the European spots
next season we have to find a way of not being so super reliant on him
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on May 19, 2021, 09:33:01 PM
			

			

				Didn't see the game. Delighted for DS that we won. Just caught up with the earlier posts on this thread and started to think that I'd missed a meeting and that we had somehow signed up to be in a two team league with Leeds. I was astonished to find out that it was Spurs that we were playing!
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Richard on May 19, 2021, 09:37:33 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Drummond on May 19, 2021, 09:28:34 PM
Liverpool, Leicester, Everton, Arsenal, Tottenham, Leeds, West Ham. All teams above us that we've beaten this season.

It's only the top 3 that we haven't managed to beat and there's a chance that could be just the top 2 by Sunday evening.

It shows what could have been and how much better we can be. We've not had results like that against the teams above us for so long! 

Except West Ham 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: CT on May 19, 2021, 09:37:38 PM
			

			

				Was pleased with the change where Jack came off for Douggie. 

They’d just brought on Bale and it allowed us to tighten things up with SJM and Marv. Even gave Douggie a chance to do stuff higher up the pitch for a change. 

Guess we won’t hear from Wilma tonight?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: VILLA MOLE on May 19, 2021, 09:41:27 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Ian. on May 19, 2021, 08:36:02 PM
Quote from: aj2k77 on May 19, 2021, 08:16:02 PM
Quote from: Jon Crofts on May 19, 2021, 07:59:49 PM
Quote from: aj2k77 on May 19, 2021, 06:13:27 PM
Huge mistake in putting Nakamba back in the team. He can't pass or control a football properly. Poor decision.



he puts his foot in which we don’t do enough .  his distribution still needs to improve 

Was this an attempt at irony?

Well that aged well didn't it :D. Much better performance (still don't rate Nakamba though).
Don’t worry, I doubt he rates you either. ;)

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on May 19, 2021, 09:41:37 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Richard on May 19, 2021, 09:37:33 PM
Quote from: Drummond on May 19, 2021, 09:28:34 PM
Liverpool, Leicester, Everton, Arsenal, Tottenham, Leeds, West Ham. All teams above us that we've beaten this season.

It's only the top 3 that we haven't managed to beat and there's a chance that could be just the top 2 by Sunday evening.

It shows what could have been and how much better we can be. We've not had results like that against the teams above us for so long! 

Except West Ham

Argh! Of course. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Lastfootstamper on May 19, 2021, 09:51:08 PM
			

			

				Beat Chelsea and we finish with only one point fewer than O'Leary got us to sixth with. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Deano's Mullet on May 19, 2021, 09:53:09 PM
			

			

				Beat Chelsea and I think we can say its been a great season.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: chrisw1 on May 20, 2021, 08:44:45 AM
			

			

				So pleased with the performance last night.  Bringing Konsa in completely nullified Son and having Marv there showed what a difference a proper solid DM could make.

I've certainly been critical of Smith and our run since Jan, but huge credit to him and the team last night.  A positive end to the season is just what we need and hopefully a decent performance in front of fans at the weekend will round off the season nicely.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on May 20, 2021, 09:11:58 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Deano's Mullet on May 19, 2021, 09:53:09 PM
Beat Chelsea and I think we can say its been a great season.

I don't think we need to do that to make it a great season. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Mister E on May 20, 2021, 09:20:26 AM
			

			

				Deano shows tactical nous with his starting XI: who'd have thought it?!
I hope we can finish with a win against Chelski: that would make up for some of the disappointment of this season (yes, I know it's been a good season, but we have been through a pretty barren sequence of games).
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on May 20, 2021, 09:36:37 AM
			

			

				24 points clear of relegation. 17 points ahead of where we were last season..

If only we'd been able to sustain our early form, if only Grealish hadn't been injured. But it's looking good and we're heading the right way. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Villan82 on May 20, 2021, 10:21:57 AM
			

			

				Credit to all concerned for yesterday. Would be great to end with a win against Chelsea and really go into the summer with our optimism up!
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Mister E on May 20, 2021, 10:22:19 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Drummond on May 20, 2021, 09:36:37 AM
24 points clear of relegation. 17 points ahead of where we were last season..

If only we'd been able to sustain our early form, if only Grealish hadn't been injured. But it's looking good and we're heading the right way. 
Which is why we need to bring in players that take the pressure off our Jack.
Pereira and Buendia should do it; along with a strong holding MF.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Nev on May 20, 2021, 10:24:04 AM
			

			

				Nothing has changed for me from Sunday. Smith is as capable of getting the result he did last night as he is the one on Sunday but to keep his role, and stating the bloody obvious, he needs more of the former and less of the latter. Hopefully that will come with a developing squad and his own personal development as a manager and I think he more than deserves the opportunity to do this.

He'll go eventually, all managers do, but to judge him solely on his misgivings rather than the positive aspects of his tenure is myopic, biased and unfair and to me smacks of snobbery and an overwhelming desire of some to say "I told you so".

As ever Sir Graham had it right, you stand and fall on your results, it will be no different for Smith.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Deano's Mullet on May 20, 2021, 10:39:34 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Drummond on May 20, 2021, 09:11:58 AM
Quote from: Deano's Mullet on May 19, 2021, 09:53:09 PM
Beat Chelsea and I think we can say its been a great season.

I don't think we need to do that to make it a great season. 

I did mean to put Really great but my phone must have deleted the word. I am v happy with how it’s gone but beat Chelsea and it’s icing on the cake.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: KevinGage on May 20, 2021, 11:02:34 AM
			

			

				We all know the things we don't do well. 

But if some of those younger players are still learning then so is Smith, in a way. He's been in management for 10 years but only the last two in the top flight. His reticence to change things in games is probably a fair criticism. But the ones advocating subs/ change of formations etc from the comfort of forums such as these (as I do) do so with no downside. With better/ more reliable players to introduce from the bench, we might see a change to his approach next season. He has shown he is open to change at various stages over the last three seasons. 

I liked the way his sides were set up at Brentford but he wouldn't have been my first choice as Villa manager back in October 2018 (he'd have been in the top 3, mind). Part of my concern then was he had never taken a side to promotion and - at a club like Villa - if you go on any sort of losing run the knives are out. Nice bloke, I reasoned. But could be pulled under the juggernaut when things go wrong. See Sunderand, Wednesday and many other examples. I felt the job needed a stronger character. 

Yet he got up up from a near hopeless position in February of his first season with the pressure on. He kept us up last season when we looked out of it - again under huge pressure with all the implications  relegation brings.   

We've seen glimpses this year of a genuinely dangerous, fluid attacking side who could trouble the top 4-6. This is the first summer I can recall that we don't need major surgery. A solid, physical presence in midfield and a top class right winger/ right midfielder allied with what we already possess should put us in contention for a European spot next year. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: not3bad on May 20, 2021, 11:23:21 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Deano's Mullet on May 19, 2021, 09:53:09 PM
Beat Chelsea and I think we can say its been a great season.

I'm not confident we'll beat Chelsea. They're still playing for a top 4 position whereas we'll finish 11th whatever happens on Sunday.

Therefore I'll call it now: It's been a great season!
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ketzster on May 20, 2021, 11:33:36 AM
			

			

				It was very good last night. If they can find a way of keeping Grealish fit, I’m Smith in. If they can’t and we have these long spells without Grealish, I’m Smith out. I know that losing your best player never helps but he should have done more to find a way of playing without him. When he has had Grealish fully fit this season, barring the odd poor performance, the football has been excellent. Saying that, we can’t keep having these prolonged periods of poor form if Smith loses Grealish 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: chrisw1 on May 20, 2021, 11:49:40 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Nev on May 20, 2021, 10:24:04 AM
Nothing has changed for me from Sunday. Smith is as capable of getting the result he did last night as he is the one on Sunday but to keep his role, and stating the bloody obvious, he needs more of the former and less of the latter. Hopefully that will come with a developing squad and his own personal development as a manager and I think he more than deserves the opportunity to do this.

He'll go eventually, all managers do, but to judge him solely on his misgivings rather than the positive aspects of his tenure is myopic, biased and unfair and to me smacks of snobbery and an overwhelming desire of some to say "I told you so".

As ever Sir Graham had it right, you stand and fall on your results, it will be no different for Smith.
This is all a bit pompous Nev.  Who exactly has judged him solely on his misgivings rather than the positive aspects of his tenure?  I think most people who have criticised him (on here certainly) have done so with full acknowledgment of his achievments with us.  Commenting on a manager's / team's performance over half a season isn't biased, myopic or unfair.  It's making a reasoned judgment over an extended period of time.  Yes he'll be judged on his results.  And rightly so.  I'm sure we all hope that they will be mostly like the first half of this season not the second. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: sickbeggar on May 20, 2021, 11:54:10 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Drummond on May 20, 2021, 09:36:37 AM
24 points clear of relegation. 17 points ahead of where we were last season..

If only we'd been able to sustain our early form, if only Grealish hadn't been injured. But it's looking good and we're heading the right way.

yep. Points won is the only real accurate way you can gauge improvement or not. We have improved under Smith - that is a fact as the equivalent of 5 extra wins shows. if we can get another 10 or so points on this seasons total next season then i'll be satisfied because that will put us in the best of the rest group which after 3 seasons in the premier, and 4 seasons since we were in disarray isn't bad going. 


			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Nev on May 20, 2021, 11:58:46 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: chrisw1 on May 20, 2021, 11:49:40 AM
Quote from: Nev on May 20, 2021, 10:24:04 AM
Nothing has changed for me from Sunday. Smith is as capable of getting the result he did last night as he is the one on Sunday but to keep his role, and stating the bloody obvious, he needs more of the former and less of the latter. Hopefully that will come with a developing squad and his own personal development as a manager and I think he more than deserves the opportunity to do this.

He'll go eventually, all managers do, but to judge him solely on his misgivings rather than the positive aspects of his tenure is myopic, biased and unfair and to me smacks of snobbery and an overwhelming desire of some to say "I told you so".

As ever Sir Graham had it right, you stand and fall on your results, it will be no different for Smith.
This is all a bit pompous Nev.  Who exactly has judged him solely on his misgivings rather than the positive aspects of his tenure?  I think most people who have criticised him (on here certainly) have done so with full acknowledgment of his achievments with us.  Commenting on a manager's / team's performance over half a season isn't biased, myopic or unfair.  It's making a reasoned judgment over an extended period of time.  Yes he'll be judged on his results.  And rightly so.  I'm sure we all hope that they will be mostly like the first half of this season not the second. 

In general terms I believe the inference is that he has taken us as far as he can and I don't think we are at that point yet.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: chrisw1 on May 20, 2021, 12:18:18 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Nev on May 20, 2021, 11:58:46 AM
Quote from: chrisw1 on May 20, 2021, 11:49:40 AM
Quote from: Nev on May 20, 2021, 10:24:04 AM
Nothing has changed for me from Sunday. Smith is as capable of getting the result he did last night as he is the one on Sunday but to keep his role, and stating the bloody obvious, he needs more of the former and less of the latter. Hopefully that will come with a developing squad and his own personal development as a manager and I think he more than deserves the opportunity to do this.

He'll go eventually, all managers do, but to judge him solely on his misgivings rather than the positive aspects of his tenure is myopic, biased and unfair and to me smacks of snobbery and an overwhelming desire of some to say "I told you so".

As ever Sir Graham had it right, you stand and fall on your results, it will be no different for Smith.
This is all a bit pompous Nev.  Who exactly has judged him solely on his misgivings rather than the positive aspects of his tenure?  I think most people who have criticised him (on here certainly) have done so with full acknowledgment of his achievments with us.  Commenting on a manager's / team's performance over half a season isn't biased, myopic or unfair.  It's making a reasoned judgment over an extended period of time.  Yes he'll be judged on his results.  And rightly so.  I'm sure we all hope that they will be mostly like the first half of this season not the second. 

In general terms I believe the inference is that he has taken us as far as he can and I don't think we are at that point yet.
Some people have said that yes (not me btw).  But how is that ignoring the positive aspects of his tenure, myopic, biased, unfair, snobbish and reflecting an overwhelming desire to say "I told you so"?

It's just peole giving a view on a football forum based on an extended run of results.  They'll either be proved wrong (hopefully) or right.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on May 20, 2021, 12:32:45 PM
			

			

				If we're still improving season on season then nobody knows he's taken us as far as he can. To be honest, if we finished 11th again next season it wouldn't necessarily suggest it even then. Nobody would say Klopp was a bad manager but they are about to scrape their way into the Top 4 after running away with the league last season. There are ebbs and flows, always have been, so far though, we have a poor run in the season but it isn't stopping our overall upward trajectory.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Damo70 on May 20, 2021, 12:33:04 PM
			

			

				I certainly don't think he has taken us as far as he can. I think he is still improving the team and also improving himself as a manager/coach.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on May 20, 2021, 12:58:12 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: chrisw1 on May 20, 2021, 11:49:40 AM
Quote from: Nev on May 20, 2021, 10:24:04 AM
Nothing has changed for me from Sunday. Smith is as capable of getting the result he did last night as he is the one on Sunday but to keep his role, and stating the bloody obvious, he needs more of the former and less of the latter. Hopefully that will come with a developing squad and his own personal development as a manager and I think he more than deserves the opportunity to do this.

He'll go eventually, all managers do, but to judge him solely on his misgivings rather than the positive aspects of his tenure is myopic, biased and unfair and to me smacks of snobbery and an overwhelming desire of some to say "I told you so".

As ever Sir Graham had it right, you stand and fall on your results, it will be no different for Smith.
This is all a bit pompous Nev.  

You might want to give the politics threads a miss then.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: sickbeggar on May 20, 2021, 01:04:31 PM
			

			

				heheheh
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: chrisw1 on May 20, 2021, 01:06:51 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on May 20, 2021, 12:58:12 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on May 20, 2021, 11:49:40 AM
Quote from: Nev on May 20, 2021, 10:24:04 AM
Nothing has changed for me from Sunday. Smith is as capable of getting the result he did last night as he is the one on Sunday but to keep his role, and stating the bloody obvious, he needs more of the former and less of the latter. Hopefully that will come with a developing squad and his own personal development as a manager and I think he more than deserves the opportunity to do this.

He'll go eventually, all managers do, but to judge him solely on his misgivings rather than the positive aspects of his tenure is myopic, biased and unfair and to me smacks of snobbery and an overwhelming desire of some to say "I told you so".

As ever Sir Graham had it right, you stand and fall on your results, it will be no different for Smith.
This is all a bit pompous Nev.  

You might want to give the politics threads a miss then.
Always have and always will.  Life's too short to dip my toe in that minefield.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Nev on May 20, 2021, 01:08:06 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: chrisw1 on May 20, 2021, 12:18:18 PM
Quote from: Nev on May 20, 2021, 11:58:46 AM
Quote from: chrisw1 on May 20, 2021, 11:49:40 AM
Quote from: Nev on May 20, 2021, 10:24:04 AM
Nothing has changed for me from Sunday. Smith is as capable of getting the result he did last night as he is the one on Sunday but to keep his role, and stating the bloody obvious, he needs more of the former and less of the latter. Hopefully that will come with a developing squad and his own personal development as a manager and I think he more than deserves the opportunity to do this.

He'll go eventually, all managers do, but to judge him solely on his misgivings rather than the positive aspects of his tenure is myopic, biased and unfair and to me smacks of snobbery and an overwhelming desire of some to say "I told you so".

As ever Sir Graham had it right, you stand and fall on your results, it will be no different for Smith.
This is all a bit pompous Nev.  Who exactly has judged him solely on his misgivings rather than the positive aspects of his tenure?  I think most people who have criticised him (on here certainly) have done so with full acknowledgment of his achievments with us.  Commenting on a manager's / team's performance over half a season isn't biased, myopic or unfair.  It's making a reasoned judgment over an extended period of time.  Yes he'll be judged on his results.  And rightly so.  I'm sure we all hope that they will be mostly like the first half of this season not the second. 

In general terms I believe the inference is that he has taken us as far as he can and I don't think we are at that point yet.
Some people have said that yes (not me btw).  But how is that ignoring the positive aspects of his tenure, myopic, biased, unfair, snobbish and reflecting an overwhelming desire to say "I told you so"?

It's just peole giving a view on a football forum based on an extended run of results.  They'll either be proved wrong (hopefully) or right.

Because it only considers the negative and not the positive? If he's taken us as far as he can then the opinion is that he can't improve us any more, he improved us in 4 days judging by the last 2 results. 

I often think that in general terms, on this forum and beyond that given the presence of the glamorous billionaires that own us, having a ginger Brummie from Great Barr isn't "sexy" enough for some fans and that erodes the patience in the light of poor results. There may also be the feeling that he is given too much slack by others due to his support for the club and that this shouldn't cloud the judgement of his ability, which of course is quite correct, but that shouldn't haste his departure either.

For some, the questions marks are too big for Smith to be considered long term, for others such as myself, he deserves the chance to answer them. 


			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: chrisw1 on May 20, 2021, 01:15:31 PM
			

			

				.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ROBBO on May 20, 2021, 01:18:10 PM
			

			

				He was a lot more animated on the touchline at Spurs.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Toronto Villa on May 20, 2021, 01:24:53 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: ROBBO on May 20, 2021, 01:18:10 PM
He was a lot more animated on the touchline at Spurs.

Noticeably. I don’t need him going full Pep, but a bit more spice clearly get his message across. And after a quick start in the second half by Spurs there were adjustments made that evened things out, actually put us back on the front foot. By the end we should have won much more comfortably 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on May 20, 2021, 01:25:33 PM
			

			

				Doesn’t last game night’s game prove what we already know
When Grealish plays we win more games and can beat anyone
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: sickbeggar on May 20, 2021, 01:31:11 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: john e on May 20, 2021, 01:25:33 PM
Doesn’t last game night’s game prove what we already know
When Grealish plays we win more games and can beat anyone

yeah but that isn't a managerial limitation really.  Unless you have an open chequebook for 100m players as reserves. He could certainly do with a system where we can do without Grealish but not replacing him as such.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on May 20, 2021, 01:40:33 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: sickbeggar on May 20, 2021, 01:31:11 PM
Quote from: john e on May 20, 2021, 01:25:33 PM
Doesn’t last game night’s game prove what we already know
When Grealish plays we win more games and can beat anyone

yeah but that isn't a managerial limitation really.  Unless you have an open chequebook for 100m players as reserves. He could certainly do with a system where we can do without Grealish but not replacing him as such.

we are a top 6 side with him and a bottom 6 side without him
so whatever it is it needs addressing this summertime 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: LeeB on May 20, 2021, 01:57:05 PM
			

			

				There's also more to the job than just the results, the spirit of togetherness, professionalism and improvement he's fostered at the club isn't to be sniffed at. The players clearly buy into him.

I'd have said the same of Pochettinho at Spurs, and throwing him out to bring in 'proven' Mourinho has clearly chucked everything they'd built out the window. Lol.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: not3bad on May 20, 2021, 02:14:54 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: john e on May 20, 2021, 01:40:33 PM
Quote from: sickbeggar on May 20, 2021, 01:31:11 PM
Quote from: john e on May 20, 2021, 01:25:33 PM
Doesn’t last game night’s game prove what we already know
When Grealish plays we win more games and can beat anyone

yeah but that isn't a managerial limitation really.  Unless you have an open chequebook for 100m players as reserves. He could certainly do with a system where we can do without Grealish but not replacing him as such.

we are a top 6 side with him and a bottom 6 side without him
so whatever it is it needs addressing this summertime 

To take a positive view I've heard that without Grealish this season we are as good (or bad) as we were with Grealish last season. So that's progress.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on May 20, 2021, 05:58:30 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: LeeB on May 20, 2021, 01:57:05 PM
There's also more to the job than just the results, the spirit of togetherness, professionalism and improvement he's fostered at the club isn't to be sniffed at. The players clearly buy into him.

I'd have said the same of Pochettinho at Spurs, and throwing him out to bring in 'proven' Mourinho has clearly chucked everything they'd built out the window. Lol.

Given the number or erm, incidents that young Jacky Grealish has been involved in, I'd go easy on the professionalism! Togetherness, certainly.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on May 20, 2021, 06:37:19 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Nev on May 20, 2021, 01:08:06 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on May 20, 2021, 12:18:18 PM
Quote from: Nev on May 20, 2021, 11:58:46 AM
Quote from: chrisw1 on May 20, 2021, 11:49:40 AM
Quote from: Nev on May 20, 2021, 10:24:04 AM
Nothing has changed for me from Sunday. Smith is as capable of getting the result he did last night as he is the one on Sunday but to keep his role, and stating the bloody obvious, he needs more of the former and less of the latter. Hopefully that will come with a developing squad and his own personal development as a manager and I think he more than deserves the opportunity to do this.

He'll go eventually, all managers do, but to judge him solely on his misgivings rather than the positive aspects of his tenure is myopic, biased and unfair and to me smacks of snobbery and an overwhelming desire of some to say "I told you so".

As ever Sir Graham had it right, you stand and fall on your results, it will be no different for Smith.
This is all a bit pompous Nev.  Who exactly has judged him solely on his misgivings rather than the positive aspects of his tenure?  I think most people who have criticised him (on here certainly) have done so with full acknowledgment of his achievments with us.  Commenting on a manager's / team's performance over half a season isn't biased, myopic or unfair.  It's making a reasoned judgment over an extended period of time.  Yes he'll be judged on his results.  And rightly so.  I'm sure we all hope that they will be mostly like the first half of this season not the second. 

In general terms I believe the inference is that he has taken us as far as he can and I don't think we are at that point yet.
Some people have said that yes (not me btw).  But how is that ignoring the positive aspects of his tenure, myopic, biased, unfair, snobbish and reflecting an overwhelming desire to say "I told you so"?

It's just peole giving a view on a football forum based on an extended run of results.  They'll either be proved wrong (hopefully) or right.

Because it only considers the negative and not the positive? If he's taken us as far as he can then the opinion is that he can't improve us any more, he improved us in 4 days judging by the last 2 results. 

I often think that in general terms, on this forum and beyond that given the presence of the glamorous billionaires that own us, having a ginger Brummie from Great Barr isn't "sexy" enough for some fans and that erodes the patience in the light of poor results. There may also be the feeling that he is given too much slack by others due to his support for the club and that this shouldn't cloud the judgement of his ability, which of course is quite correct, but that shouldn't haste his departure either.


Absolute rubbish. The people that have been critical, call out their genuine concerns regarding his abilities. 
Ultimately it is the results that call in to question his suitability to be a Top Coach and we have been on a poor run of form compounded by the fact that we have been losing games from winning positions.
Any Villa manager would be getting criticised based on Smiths recent record.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Toronto Villa on May 20, 2021, 06:44:04 PM
			

			

				Sorry Nev, but without Grealish Dean Smith has a lot of question marks. Just because yesterday was very good doesn’t suddenly change a lot of what we’ve seen. Look, I don’t want him fired. I want him here long term if he is able to prove he can continue to improve and play a different way and win when his best player isn’t in the side. How many times has he been able to do that? A couple of times I think in two divisions. So for me, loved yesterday, have enjoyed much of the season but in equal part there is lots for him to do to convince he is the long term answer at the club. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: andyh on May 20, 2021, 06:52:48 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Toronto Villa on May 20, 2021, 06:44:04 PM
Sorry Nev, but without Grealish Dean Smith has a lot of question marks. Just because yesterday was very good doesn’t suddenly change a lot of what we’ve seen. Look, I don’t want him fired. I want him here long term if he is able to prove he can continue to improve and play a different way and win when his best player isn’t in the side. How many times has he been able to do that? A couple of times I think in two divisions. So for me, loved yesterday, have enjoyed much of the season but in equal part there is lots for him to do to convince he is the long term answer at the club. 
I tend to agree.
I too don’t want him sacked but I recognise that we got promoted on the back of a 10 match winning run, coinciding with Jack came back from a long injury.
We stayed up last year not least because Jack dragged us over the line.
We had a magnificent start to the season due to Jack being world class, and then dropped dramatically with him being injured.

It can’t all be coincidental, can it?

Dean’s success is built on Jacks ability.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Nev on May 20, 2021, 06:54:06 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: ChicagoLion on May 20, 2021, 06:37:19 PM
Quote from: Nev on May 20, 2021, 01:08:06 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on May 20, 2021, 12:18:18 PM
Quote from: Nev on May 20, 2021, 11:58:46 AM
Quote from: chrisw1 on May 20, 2021, 11:49:40 AM
Quote from: Nev on May 20, 2021, 10:24:04 AM
Nothing has changed for me from Sunday. Smith is as capable of getting the result he did last night as he is the one on Sunday but to keep his role, and stating the bloody obvious, he needs more of the former and less of the latter. Hopefully that will come with a developing squad and his own personal development as a manager and I think he more than deserves the opportunity to do this.

He'll go eventually, all managers do, but to judge him solely on his misgivings rather than the positive aspects of his tenure is myopic, biased and unfair and to me smacks of snobbery and an overwhelming desire of some to say "I told you so".

As ever Sir Graham had it right, you stand and fall on your results, it will be no different for Smith.
This is all a bit pompous Nev.  Who exactly has judged him solely on his misgivings rather than the positive aspects of his tenure?  I think most people who have criticised him (on here certainly) have done so with full acknowledgment of his achievments with us.  Commenting on a manager's / team's performance over half a season isn't biased, myopic or unfair.  It's making a reasoned judgment over an extended period of time.  Yes he'll be judged on his results.  And rightly so.  I'm sure we all hope that they will be mostly like the first half of this season not the second. 

In general terms I believe the inference is that he has taken us as far as he can and I don't think we are at that point yet.
Some people have said that yes (not me btw).  But how is that ignoring the positive aspects of his tenure, myopic, biased, unfair, snobbish and reflecting an overwhelming desire to say "I told you so"?

It's just peole giving a view on a football forum based on an extended run of results.  They'll either be proved wrong (hopefully) or right.

Because it only considers the negative and not the positive? If he's taken us as far as he can then the opinion is that he can't improve us any more, he improved us in 4 days judging by the last 2 results. 

I often think that in general terms, on this forum and beyond that given the presence of the glamorous billionaires that own us, having a ginger Brummie from Great Barr isn't "sexy" enough for some fans and that erodes the patience in the light of poor results. There may also be the feeling that he is given too much slack by others due to his support for the club and that this shouldn't cloud the judgement of his ability, which of course is quite correct, but that shouldn't haste his departure either.


Absolute rubbish. The people that have been critical, call out their genuine concerns regarding his abilities. 
Ultimately it is the results that call in to question his suitability to be a Top Coach and we have been on a poor run of form compounded by the fact that we have been losing games from winning positions.
Any Villa manager would be getting criticised based on Smiths recent record.

I have no problem with criticism, my point is regarding people who think he should be removed now. The criticism, much like the praise, is deserved and I don't know if he will  make a top class manager or coach, he looks out of his depth one minute and perfectly adept in the top flight the next, but, and for the umpteenth time, I think he deserves to remain in the role, criticism and all.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on May 20, 2021, 07:00:06 PM
			

			

				Nev I think even the most Ardent critics have said no point in changing Smith unless its for someone a lot better.
Some people seem to take any criticism of Smith personally and that's when the vitriol kicks in. 


			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: pauliewalnuts on May 20, 2021, 07:05:39 PM
			

			

				I've got a lot of criticism for him over the second half of the season but I don't want him sacked.

In the same way my Mrs annoys me but I have a recurring dream about feeding her into a wood chipper machine don't want to get shot of her.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Hockley Lion on May 20, 2021, 07:12:30 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: ChicagoLion on May 20, 2021, 06:37:19 PM
Quote from: Nev on May 20, 2021, 01:08:06 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on May 20, 2021, 12:18:18 PM
Quote from: Nev on May 20, 2021, 11:58:46 AM
Quote from: chrisw1 on May 20, 2021, 11:49:40 AM
Quote from: Nev on May 20, 2021, 10:24:04 AM
Nothing has changed for me from Sunday. Smith is as capable of getting the result he did last night as he is the one on Sunday but to keep his role, and stating the bloody obvious, he needs more of the former and less of the latter. Hopefully that will come with a developing squad and his own personal development as a manager and I think he more than deserves the opportunity to do this.

He'll go eventually, all managers do, but to judge him solely on his misgivings rather than the positive aspects of his tenure is myopic, biased and unfair and to me smacks of snobbery and an overwhelming desire of some to say "I told you so".

As ever Sir Graham had it right, you stand and fall on your results, it will be no different for Smith.
This is all a bit pompous Nev.  Who exactly has judged him solely on his misgivings rather than the positive aspects of his tenure?  I think most people who have criticised him (on here certainly) have done so with full acknowledgment of his achievments with us.  Commenting on a manager's / team's performance over half a season isn't biased, myopic or unfair.  It's making a reasoned judgment over an extended period of time.  Yes he'll be judged on his results.  And rightly so.  I'm sure we all hope that they will be mostly like the first half of this season not the second. 

In general terms I believe the inference is that he has taken us as far as he can and I don't think we are at that point yet.
Some people have said that yes (not me btw).  But how is that ignoring the positive aspects of his tenure, myopic, biased, unfair, snobbish and reflecting an overwhelming desire to say "I told you so"?

It's just peole giving a view on a football forum based on an extended run of results.  They'll either be proved wrong (hopefully) or right.

Because it only considers the negative and not the positive? If he's taken us as far as he can then the opinion is that he can't improve us any more, he improved us in 4 days judging by the last 2 results. 

I often think that in general terms, on this forum and beyond that given the presence of the glamorous billionaires that own us, having a ginger Brummie from Great Barr isn't "sexy" enough for some fans and that erodes the patience in the light of poor results. There may also be the feeling that he is given too much slack by others due to his support for the club and that this shouldn't cloud the judgement of his ability, which of course is quite correct, but that shouldn't haste his departure either.


Absolute rubbish. The people that have been critical, call out their genuine concerns regarding his abilities. 
Ultimately it is the results that call in to question his suitability to be a Top Coach and we have been on a poor run of form compounded by the fact that we have been losing games from winning positions.
Any Villa manager would be getting criticised based on Smiths recent record.

It depends on what you mean by recent though doesn't it. People choosing to be critical are selecting a chosen series of games that back up their fear that it's all going down the toilet. People who aren't being critical are looking at a different series of games which concludes a more favourable view. I'm not being critical I'm just saying I see it differently. Last night's result for instance has changed the "recent" perspective of Dean Smith's abilities a little in his favour.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: sickbeggar on May 20, 2021, 07:13:51 PM
			

			

				I think if you did bin Smith, then replacing him with a manager who can get us winning without Jack as much as with, may be a bit of a tall order. Teams playing worse with best player missing seems to be a common coaching deficiency even amongst the real managerial legends.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on May 20, 2021, 07:21:33 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: ChicagoLion on May 20, 2021, 07:00:06 PM
Nev I think even the most Ardent critics have said no point in changing Smith unless its for someone a lot better.
Some people seem to take any criticism of Smith personally and that's when the vitriol kicks in.

I agree to an extent. However, there are those that seem to criticise at every given opportunity too and refuse to see or acknowledge the positives. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on May 20, 2021, 08:18:32 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Drummond on May 20, 2021, 07:21:33 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on May 20, 2021, 07:00:06 PM
Nev I think even the most Ardent critics have said no point in changing Smith unless its for someone a lot better.
Some people seem to take any criticism of Smith personally and that's when the vitriol kicks in.

I agree to an extent. However, there are those that seem to criticise at every given opportunity too and refuse to see or acknowledge the positives. 

There's also too many that go very quiet when they can't criticise him (in general not just on here). It's those people that give the impression that they're just waiting for him to get sacked so they can tell people they called it all along. That's not to say you can't be critical, just that it doesn't give a great impression if that's all you do. I understand it though, most people probably thought that was me when Bruce was manager and it's a fair accusation, I just think the circumstances are very different and Smith has a decent rep with fans of his previous clubs, Bruce always had a stench of failure behind him and fans of almost all of his former clubs think he left them worse than he found them.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SaddVillan on May 20, 2021, 08:37:30 PM
			

			

				With  one game to go, let's have a look at how last season and this season compare:

2019-20   2020-19  Change
P       38        37
W       9         15          +6
D        8           7           -1
L        21       15           -6
F       41        53        +11
A       67        45         -22
Gd    -26        +8         34 goal swing to the better
Pts    35        52       +17

Posn  17th   11th    +6

We've increased points won by 48%,  conceded a third fewer goals and scored c.30% more.

So what people are complaining about?

The things that the team and management can take away from this season as learning points:

1. There are no easy points in the Premier League
2. On any given day anybody can be beaten
3. Almost every mistake can and will be punished.
4. You've got to be "on it" from the first to the last whistle.
5. You can't afford to carry many players performing at 60-75%. Even one is too many.
6. The squad lacks quality in certain positions as well as in strength in depth.
7. This meant that we found it difficult to swap out players in some positions who were performing below par.
8. Some players undoubtedly found the requirement to maintain full concentration for 38 x 90 a difficult step up.

These problems need to be addressed in transfer window and at Bodymoor,  and in addition the experience gained across the squad this season should help too.

We lost too many points from winning positions and whilst a Europa place would have been a great achievement compared to last season, it would I think, end up screwing us up royally next year.

The frequency of the Thursday - Sunday - Sunday cycle of games is a burden that our current squad just wouldn't be capable of bearing. We'd struggle in Europe and have a squad that would be totally knackered by Christmas. Our league form would suffer, confidence would go with it and the boo boys would be out in force.

Steady continued progress, whilst less glamorous is more sustainable in the long term and more likely to bring us the success we long for.

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Allan C on May 20, 2021, 08:46:20 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Hockley Lion on May 20, 2021, 07:12:30 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on May 20, 2021, 06:37:19 PM
Quote from: Nev on May 20, 2021, 01:08:06 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on May 20, 2021, 12:18:18 PM
Quote from: Nev on May 20, 2021, 11:58:46 AM
Quote from: chrisw1 on May 20, 2021, 11:49:40 AM
Quote from: Nev on May 20, 2021, 10:24:04 AM
Nothing has changed for me from Sunday. Smith is as capable of getting the result he did last night as he is the one on Sunday but to keep his role, and stating the bloody obvious, he needs more of the former and less of the latter. Hopefully that will come with a developing squad and his own personal development as a manager and I think he more than deserves the opportunity to do this.

He'll go eventually, all managers do, but to judge him solely on his misgivings rather than the positive aspects of his tenure is myopic, biased and unfair and to me smacks of snobbery and an overwhelming desire of some to say "I told you so".

As ever Sir Graham had it right, you stand and fall on your results, it will be no different for Smith.
This is all a bit pompous Nev.  Who exactly has judged him solely on his misgivings rather than the positive aspects of his tenure?  I think most people who have criticised him (on here certainly) have done so with full acknowledgment of his achievments with us.  Commenting on a manager's / team's performance over half a season isn't biased, myopic or unfair.  It's making a reasoned judgment over an extended period of time.  Yes he'll be judged on his results.  And rightly so.  I'm sure we all hope that they will be mostly like the first half of this season not the second. 

In general terms I believe the inference is that he has taken us as far as he can and I don't think we are at that point yet.
Some people have said that yes (not me btw).  But how is that ignoring the positive aspects of his tenure, myopic, biased, unfair, snobbish and reflecting an overwhelming desire to say "I told you so"?

It's just peole giving a view on a football forum based on an extended run of results.  They'll either be proved wrong (hopefully) or right.

Because it only considers the negative and not the positive? If he's taken us as far as he can then the opinion is that he can't improve us any more, he improved us in 4 days judging by the last 2 results. 

I often think that in general terms, on this forum and beyond that given the presence of the glamorous billionaires that own us, having a ginger Brummie from Great Barr isn't "sexy" enough for some fans and that erodes the patience in the light of poor results. There may also be the feeling that he is given too much slack by others due to his support for the club and that this shouldn't cloud the judgement of his ability, which of course is quite correct, but that shouldn't haste his departure either.


Absolute rubbish. The people that have been critical, call out their genuine concerns regarding his abilities. 
Ultimately it is the results that call in to question his suitability to be a Top Coach and we have been on a poor run of form compounded by the fact that we have been losing games from winning positions.
Any Villa manager would be getting criticised based on Smiths recent record.

It depends on what you mean by recent though doesn't it. People choosing to be critical are selecting a chosen series of games that back up their fear that it's all going down the toilet. People who aren't being critical are looking at a different series of games which concludes a more favourable view. I'm not being critical I'm just saying I see it differently. Last night's result for instance has changed the "recent" perspective of Dean Smith's abilities a little in his favour.
You’re right HL. I’ve stepped back and looked at the season as a whole. Without doubt we were better, week by week in the first half of the season, not so good on a weekly basis in the second. But in all honesty, we have looked really poor in only a handful of games. In most games we have had good spells and been unlucky with decisions in others. Smith shouldn’t be exempt from criticism and he hasn’t been not least on this and other threads but he’s relatively inexperienced compared with other PL coaches and he’s learning. But as I see it, the improvements made are good, in players and league position. What we need now is investment in players of equal quality to Grealish as the under achieving players are weeded out. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Allan C on May 20, 2021, 08:53:51 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: SaddVillan on May 20, 2021, 08:37:30 PM
With  one game to go, let's have a look at how last season and this season compare:

2019-20   2020-19  Change
P       38        37
W       9         15          +6
D        8           7           -1
L        21       15           -6
F       41        53        +11
A       67        45         -22
Gd    -26        +8         34 goal swing to the better
Pts    35        52       +17

Posn  17th   11th    +6

We've increased points won by 48%,  conceded a third fewer goals and scored c.30% more.

So what people are complaining about?

The things that the team and management can take away from this season as learning points:

1. There are no easy points in the Premier League
2. On any given day anybody can be beaten
3. Almost every mistake can and will be punished.
4. You've got to be "on it" from the first to the last whistle.
5. You can't afford to carry many players performing at 60-75%. Even one is too many.
6. The squad lacks quality in certain positions as well as in strength in depth.
7. This meant that we found it difficult to swap out players in some positions who were performing below par.
8. Some players undoubtedly found the requirement to maintain full concentration for 38 x 90 a difficult step up.

These problems need to be addressed in transfer window and at Bodymoor,  and in addition the experience gained across the squad this season should help too.

We lost too many points from winning positions and whilst a Europa place would have been a great achievement compared to last season, it would I think, end up screwing us up royally next year.

The frequency of the Thursday - Sunday - Sunday cycle of games is a burden that our current squad just wouldn't be capable of bearing. We'd struggle in Europe and have a squad that would be totally knackered by Christmas. Our league form would suffer, confidence would go with it and the boo boys would be out in force.

Steady continued progress, whilst less glamorous is more sustainable in the long term and more likely to bring us the success we long for.
Absolutely spot on. A great post which lays bare the comparisons from this season and last. You’re also spot on with the Europa League assessment 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Nunkin1965 on May 20, 2021, 09:11:25 PM
			

			

				It's the nature of us football supporting beasts.
We're never entirely happy.
No matter how well its going there will always be some itch to scratch.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Hockley Lion on May 20, 2021, 09:21:56 PM
			

			

				One thing I didn't like throughout the season was the games in hand that we had at times. It started off with our first game, postponed I believe to reduce fixture congestion for Man city's European dream. By week 19 we'd played 17 games so we've had to play 21 games in the second half of the season. How is it fair for the PL to create fixture congestion for one in order to relieve it for another, just so they can play in a different competition. I know this affected other teams but I think we largely had more games in hand than anyone else.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on May 20, 2021, 09:35:21 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on May 20, 2021, 07:05:39 PM
I've got a lot of criticism for him over the second half of the season but I don't want him sacked.

In the same way my Mrs annoys me but I have a recurring dream about feeding her into a wood chipper machine don't want to get shot of her.

I think you've nailed the two most important points for me regarding Dean, it's easy to compare last season with this and think we're really progressing on the right track whilst ignoring the elephant in the room; just how poor were were second half of the season and why (fingers crossed) it took so long to resolve. Add to that, it seems to be a trait he has, certainly from reading about his Brentford days and his time here.

Your second point is right where I stand, he's absolutely everything I could want from a Villa manager. He's honest, straightforward, understands the club and the values, trying to help build something long term across the board, the fact he's from a Villa family is just a bonus, it's the man I admire. The only thing I question is on the football side but then I guess when we hired him we knew he also had to grow and improve. I'm not going to blow smoke up his arse, I want him to be the manager we all want him to be but he needs to find a way of getting the team performing week in, week out, even if the results aren't there to match. We hopefully won't have a Covid break where he has the time to reflect. Practice makes perfect and I think he has the right ideas just not necessarily always the plan.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Clive W on May 20, 2021, 09:41:21 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Allan C on May 20, 2021, 08:53:51 PM
Quote from: SaddVillan on May 20, 2021, 08:37:30 PM
With  one game to go, let's have a look at how last season and this season compare:

2019-20   2020-19  Change

P       38        37
W       9         15          +6
D        8           7           -1
L        21       15           -6
F       41        53        +11
A       67        45         -22
Gd    -26        +8         34 goal swing to the better
Pts    35        52       +17

Posn  17th   11th    +6

We've increased points won by 48%,  conceded a third fewer goals and scored c.30% more.

So what people are complaining about?

The things that the team and management can take away from this season as learning points:

1. There are no easy points in the Premier League
2. On any given day anybody can be beaten
3. Almost every mistake can and will be punished.
4. You've got to be "on it" from the first to the last whistle.
5. You can't afford to carry many players performing at 60-75%. Even one is too many.
6. The squad lacks quality in certain positions as well as in strength in depth.
7. This meant that we found it difficult to swap out players in some positions who were performing below par.
8. Some players undoubtedly found the requirement to maintain full concentration for 38 x 90 a difficult step up.

These problems need to be addressed in transfer window and at Bodymoor,  and in addition the experience gained across the squad this season should help too.

We lost too many points from winning positions and whilst a Europa place would have been a great achievement compared to last season, it would I think, end up screwing us up royally next year.

The frequency of the Thursday - Sunday - Sunday cycle of games is a burden that our current squad just wouldn't be capable of bearing. We'd struggle in Europe and have a squad that would be totally knackered by Christmas. Our league form would suffer, confidence would go with it and the boo boys would be out in force.

Steady continued progress, whilst less glamorous is more sustainable in the long term and more likely to bring us the success we long for.
Absolutely spot on. A great post which lays bare the comparisons from this season and last. You’re also spot on with the Europa League assessment

My thoughts exactly 

I posted a few weeks ago when we still had hopes of Europe questioning whether it was in our interests

I tongue in cheek said that perhaps playing 30 europa league (or whatever its called) matches against teams from countries that no one has heard of, only to get knocked out in the last 16 maybe was not in our best interests

If we had strength in depth it may be different but that’s been our biggest failing for years

The last 10 or so years have been pretty dismal, but even so, at times we had a fairly decent full strength starting XI. The problems came when we had one or two injuries or suspensions - no adequate replacements

I was actually in the minority with this view - fair play but I think at this stage European football would set us back until such time as hopefully the youngsters can break through
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ian. on May 20, 2021, 10:56:07 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on May 20, 2021, 09:35:21 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on May 20, 2021, 07:05:39 PM
I've got a lot of criticism for him over the second half of the season but I don't want him sacked.

In the same way my Mrs annoys me but I have a recurring dream about feeding her into a wood chipper machine don't want to get shot of her.

I think you've nailed the two most important points for me regarding Dean, it's easy to compare last season with this and think we're really progressing on the right track whilst ignoring the elephant in the room; just how poor were were second half of the season and why (fingers crossed) it took so long to resolve. Add to that, it seems to be a trait he has, certainly from reading about his Brentford days and his time here.

Your second point is right where I stand, he's absolutely everything I could want from a Villa manager. He's honest, straightforward, understands the club and the values, trying to help build something long term across the board, the fact he's from a Villa family is just a bonus, it's the man I admire. The only thing I question is on the football side but then I guess when we hired him we knew he also had to grow and improve. I'm not going to blow smoke up his arse, I want him to be the manager we all want him to be but he needs to find a way of getting the team performing week in, week out, even if the results aren't there to match. We hopefully won't have a Covid break where he has the time to reflect. Practice makes perfect and I think he has the right ideas just not necessarily always the plan.

Yep, that’s two very well executed posts. Totally agree with both, most definitely with pw’s.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Scott Nielsen on May 21, 2021, 03:50:43 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Ian. on May 20, 2021, 10:56:07 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on May 20, 2021, 09:35:21 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on May 20, 2021, 07:05:39 PM
I've got a lot of criticism for him over the second half of the season but I don't want him sacked.

In the same way my Mrs annoys me but I have a recurring dream about feeding her into a wood chipper machine don't want to get shot of her.

I think you've nailed the two most important points for me regarding Dean, it's easy to compare last season with this and think we're really progressing on the right track whilst ignoring the elephant in the room; just how poor were were second half of the season and why (fingers crossed) it took so long to resolve. Add to that, it seems to be a trait he has, certainly from reading about his Brentford days and his time here.

Your second point is right where I stand, he's absolutely everything I could want from a Villa manager. He's honest, straightforward, understands the club and the values, trying to help build something long term across the board, the fact he's from a Villa family is just a bonus, it's the man I admire. The only thing I question is on the football side but then I guess when we hired him we knew he also had to grow and improve. I'm not going to blow smoke up his arse, I want him to be the manager we all want him to be but he needs to find a way of getting the team performing week in, week out, even if the results aren't there to match. We hopefully won't have a Covid break where he has the time to reflect. Practice makes perfect and I think he has the right ideas just not necessarily always the plan.

Yep, that’s two very well executed posts. Totally agree with both, most definitely with pw’s.

Really? I thought the wood chipper quite an idiosyncratic choice but I suppose I can see its appeal. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on May 21, 2021, 09:00:06 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on May 20, 2021, 07:05:39 PM
I've got a lot of criticism for him over the second half of the season but I don't want him sacked.

In the same way my Mrs annoys me but I have a recurring dream about feeding her into a wood chipper machine don't want to get shot of her.

What if Suranne Jones made it known that she wanted you to manage 'er?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on May 21, 2021, 09:59:35 AM
			

			

				with our owners, set up, club size, ambition i want Villa in the top 6 asap, and that only for starters
finishing 9/10th next season and saying its an improvement isn't for me 

sorry if that's me being unrealistic but that's where i am especially as its the best/only way of securing Grealish who i believe is generational talent for Villa and more than anyone else has got us to where we are at the moment,
 he deserves to play at the highest level, hopefully with us

so all my posts are made with this default position in mind
so when someone is happy at finishing 11 this season and would be happy next with moderate improvements then we are going to differ

football is not an exact science, never has been, 
if Grealish goes,whenever, all our 'going in the right direction' is washed away for a time as he makes the difference at the moment and cannot be replaced if we lose him

also and i know this is going to sound really daft and silly, but i'm in my late 50's now, getting old
i haven't got time to wait around going round in circles 
i want to enjoy winning a trophy/trophies and being there with my kids for the first time seeing them experience what i did in the 1980's and a couple of times after

admittedly i'm impatient, and some of my posts come across as that
but i'm not going to lower my expectations, for me the whole project should be at least Europa football next season 
i can see us spending more money than anyone else maybe even Man City this summer so i don't think i will be on my own with what is expected

in summary - i do think we are going in the right direction i just want us to get there quicker than others










			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: sickbeggar on May 21, 2021, 10:06:53 AM
			

			

				Sorry, but you can't build a title challenging team on the timeframe of whether its good enough for a player to stay. That way leads to misery and besides we could win the league and he could still decide to leave for other pastures - it happens to clubs that win the league.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on May 21, 2021, 10:31:10 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: john e on May 21, 2021, 09:59:35 AM
with our owners, set up, club size, ambition i want Villa in the top 6 asap, and that only for starters
finishing 9/10th next season and saying its an improvement isn't for me 

sorry if that's me being unrealistic but that's where i am especially as its the best/only way of securing Grealish who i believe is generational talent for Villa and more than anyone else has got us to where we are at the moment,
 he deserves to play at the highest level, hopefully with us

so all my posts are made with this default position in mind
so when someone is happy at finishing 11 this season and would be happy next with moderate improvements then we are going to differ

football is not an exact science, never has been, 
if Grealish goes,whenever, all our 'going in the right direction' is washed away for a time as he makes the difference at the moment and cannot be replaced if we lose him

also and i know this is going to sound really daft and silly, but i'm in my late 50's now, getting old
i haven't got time to wait around going round in circles 
i want to enjoy winning a trophy/trophies and being there with my kids for the first time seeing them experience what i did in the 1980's and a couple of times after

admittedly i'm impatient, and some of my posts come across as that
but i'm not going to lower my expectations, for me the whole project should be at least Europa football next season 
i can see us spending more money than anyone else maybe even Man City this summer so i don't think i will be on my own with what is expected

in summary - i do think we are going in the right direction i just want us to get there quicker than others

I don't think I've seen anyone suggest 9-10th next season would be good progress so I'm not sure who you're arguing with here. 11th this season with our highest points and goals tallies in the league for over a decade is good progress. Add to that the impact of Grealish missing a third of the season, the covid outbreak and Barkley not keeping up his early form and there's plenty of things to suggest we could've done better with a bit more luck.

Next season every post on here I can recall has said we need to be challenging for Europe, if we aren't at least in the battle for the top 6 going into May 2022 then we'll have under-achieved and Smith will probably be replaced.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Nev on May 21, 2021, 10:54:04 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: john e on May 21, 2021, 09:59:35 AM
with our owners, set up, club size, ambition i want Villa in the top 6 asap, and that only for starters
finishing 9/10th next season and saying its an improvement isn't for me 

sorry if that's me being unrealistic but that's where i am especially as its the best/only way of securing Grealish who i believe is generational talent for Villa and more than anyone else has got us to where we are at the moment,
 he deserves to play at the highest level, hopefully with us

so all my posts are made with this default position in mind
so when someone is happy at finishing 11 this season and would be happy next with moderate improvements then we are going to differ

football is not an exact science, never has been, 
if Grealish goes,whenever, all our 'going in the right direction' is washed away for a time as he makes the difference at the moment and cannot be replaced if we lose him

also and i know this is going to sound really daft and silly, but i'm in my late 50's now, getting old
i haven't got time to wait around going round in circles 
i want to enjoy winning a trophy/trophies and being there with my kids for the first time seeing them experience what i did in the 1980's and a couple of times after

admittedly i'm impatient, and some of my posts come across as that
but i'm not going to lower my expectations, for me the whole project should be at least Europa football next season 
i can see us spending more money than anyone else maybe even Man City this summer so i don't think i will be on my own with what is expected

in summary - i do think we are going in the right direction i just want us to get there quicker than others











I'm the opposite but really appreciate your honesty and I think many support this view. Call me a crank but I honestly don't want to do a Man City and chuck fortunes at it and sweep all before us in a short space of time, I'd rather a slower progression albeit to the same destination, whether that is with Smith or not remains to be seen.
I always get the feeling that Man City fans enjoy the success but with a bit of regret at how it has come.

Taking a wider view, I don't want any club to dominate, I'd prefer a more level playing field where many clubs compete for titles so than rather than being complacent at winning, it remains special, memorable and even remarkable.

I'd rather slope out of Wembley having lost rather than slope out of Wembley having won, as we have seen other fans do on our many visits.

All of this is probably down to my age, and I would imagine I'm becoming the minority, as DW said we want to become what we hate.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Clampy on May 21, 2021, 10:54:40 AM
			

			

				I think after last season, 11th is not a bad place to finish. Next season, it'll need to be better. I don't think we would have been ready for Europe had we managed to grab a place anyway. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on May 21, 2021, 11:24:12 AM
			

			

				I agree with paul e.
We have a once in a generation player complemented by some real talent and maybe a once in a generation chance to achieve something.
The last time was with Lerner and he and O'Neill blew it.
If we do not take the opportunity now then we could be looking back at this period as another what might have been.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: chrisw1 on May 21, 2021, 11:49:19 AM
			

			

				I'm with John and like John I see keeping Grealish as key to getting where we want to be.  The second half of this season hasn't helped and whilst we will never know it's possible it will imact on what players we can attract over the summer.  That's the frustration - we missed an opportunity to make a bigger leap than we have.

It seems like most of us are on the same page - that we need to challenge for Europe next season.  If we don't then we'll lose Grealish and it will be a few steps backwards.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Villan82 on May 21, 2021, 11:55:23 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: john e on May 21, 2021, 09:59:35 AM
with our owners, set up, club size, ambition i want Villa in the top 6 asap, and that only for starters
finishing 9/10th next season and saying its an improvement isn't for me 

sorry if that's me being unrealistic but that's where i am especially as its the best/only way of securing Grealish who i believe is generational talent for Villa and more than anyone else has got us to where we are at the moment,
 he deserves to play at the highest level, hopefully with us

so all my posts are made with this default position in mind
so when someone is happy at finishing 11 this season and would be happy next with moderate improvements then we are going to differ

football is not an exact science, never has been, 
if Grealish goes,whenever, all our 'going in the right direction' is washed away for a time as he makes the difference at the moment and cannot be replaced if we lose him

also and i know this is going to sound really daft and silly, but i'm in my late 50's now, getting old
i haven't got time to wait around going round in circles 
i want to enjoy winning a trophy/trophies and being there with my kids for the first time seeing them experience what i did in the 1980's and a couple of times after

admittedly i'm impatient, and some of my posts come across as that
but i'm not going to lower my expectations, for me the whole project should be at least Europa football next season 
i can see us spending more money than anyone else maybe even Man City this summer so i don't think i will be on my own with what is expected

in summary - i do think we are going in the right direction i just want us to get there quicker than others

Well said, and is pretty much where I am. It's a long time, too long, since we challenged seriously for honours. 25 years since the League Cup in '96. We have a golden ticket with Jack.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: sickbeggar on May 21, 2021, 12:07:05 PM
			

			

				I just don't see the correlation with getting Europe and Grealish staying. What's the agenda or assumption? Grealish will stay if we get into Europe? Win a cup? CL place? Win the league? MON got into Europe and got to a cup final. People like Barry still left. Unless the club are planning to throw City type levels of money at us, I really can't see us winning the league before Grealish is in his 30's. I presume he wants to win things so getting into Europe isn't really fulfilling that.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on May 21, 2021, 12:07:10 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Clampy on May 21, 2021, 10:54:40 AM
I think after last season, 11th is not a bad place to finish. Next season, it'll need to be better. I don't think we would have been ready for Europe had we managed to grab a place anyway. 

I think that’s the difference in thinking though
And I’m not even saying that you’re wrong I’m right I’m just saying there’s a difference right there

I think we should have done a better last season and finished in the top half at least this season
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: garyellis on May 21, 2021, 12:18:19 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: john e on May 21, 2021, 12:07:10 PM
Quote from: Clampy on May 21, 2021, 10:54:40 AM
I think after last season, 11th is not a bad place to finish. Next season, it'll need to be better. I don't think we would have been ready for Europe had we managed to grab a place anyway. 

I think that’s the difference in thinking though
And I’m not even saying that you’re wrong I’m right I’m just saying there’s a difference right there

I think we should have done a better last season and finished in the top half at least this season
You are probably in line with Dean's thinking on both. The difference for me is that this season I have seen enough to know we have the ability to be top half and more but probably not the depth when we get key injuries. What I wanted to see again was Villa capable of taking on any team and when we have played well we have been outstanding. I appreciate the inconsistency is infuriating but the potential is obviously there and I am confident Dean Smith can see the need to continue the improvement.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: chrisw1 on May 21, 2021, 12:24:50 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: sickbeggar on May 21, 2021, 12:07:05 PM
I just don't see the correlation with getting Europe and Grealish staying. What's the agenda or assumption? Grealish will stay if we get into Europe? Win a cup? CL place? Win the league? MON got into Europe and got to a cup final. People like Barry still left. Unless the club are planning to throw City type levels of money at us, I really can't see us winning the league before Grealish is in his 30's. I presume he wants to win things so getting into Europe isn't really fulfilling that.
Nothings certain but the thinking is that he'll probably be here next season.  If we have a great season and qualify for Europe, having aquired some exciting players along the way, he can see the progress we've made and with the owners we have the potential that we can kick on again.  He can see the project is working and buy into it for at least another season.  There's no guarantee, but we've painted him the best posible picture that he can achieve his ambitions with us.

If we have a poorer season and we finish 9-10 or so, that's another year without any European football and our progress is slower than what he needs for his own ambitions and will almost certainly move on.

I would have thought this was a pretty obvious conclusion to draw.  


			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: sickbeggar on May 21, 2021, 12:29:32 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: chrisw1 on May 21, 2021, 12:24:50 PM
Quote from: sickbeggar on May 21, 2021, 12:07:05 PM
I just don't see the correlation with getting Europe and Grealish staying. What's the agenda or assumption? Grealish will stay if we get into Europe? Win a cup? CL place? Win the league? MON got into Europe and got to a cup final. People like Barry still left. Unless the club are planning to throw City type levels of money at us, I really can't see us winning the league before Grealish is in his 30's. I presume he wants to win things so getting into Europe isn't really fulfilling that.
Nothings certain but the thinking is that he'll probably be here next season.  If we have a great season and qualify for Europe, having aquired some exciting players along the way, he can see the progress we've made and with the owners we have the potential that we can kick on again.  He can see the project is working and buy into it for at least another season.  There's no guarantee, but we've painted him the best posible picture that he can achieve his ambitions with us.

If we have a poorer season and we finish 9-10 or so, that's another year without any European football and our progress is slower than what he needs for his own ambitions and will almost certainly move on.

I would have thought this was a pretty obvious conclusion to draw. 

yeah I get that people want Grealish to stay, but is the Europa cup his ambitions? As far as I know he hasn't made any clear statement of what he thinks is adequate. He probably doesn't know. All i'm saying is people are betting on a promise he hasn't given.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: chrisw1 on May 21, 2021, 12:33:03 PM
			

			

				You're right, we've no idea what it will take for him to stay.  But whilst it looks like we're moving forward at pace we surely give ourselves the best possible chance.  And even then if he does move on fair enough, we've still put ourselves in a great position.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Clampy on May 21, 2021, 01:04:28 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: garyellis on May 21, 2021, 12:18:19 PM
Quote from: john e on May 21, 2021, 12:07:10 PM
Quote from: Clampy on May 21, 2021, 10:54:40 AM
I think after last season, 11th is not a bad place to finish. Next season, it'll need to be better. I don't think we would have been ready for Europe had we managed to grab a place anyway. 

I think that’s the difference in thinking though
And I’m not even saying that you’re wrong I’m right I’m just saying there’s a difference right there

I think we should have done a better last season and finished in the top half at least this season
You are probably in line with Dean's thinking on both. The difference for me is that this season I have seen enough to know we have the ability to be top half and more but probably not the depth when we get key injuries. What I wanted to see again was Villa capable of taking on any team and when we have played well we have been outstanding. I appreciate the inconsistency is infuriating but the potential is obviously there and I am confident Dean Smith can see the need to continue the improvement.

I can see where both of you are coming from. One thing I've liked this season is that we've gone into nearly every game thinking we can get something out of it. OK, we haven't obviously but being confident beforehand is a nice feeling and not something we're used to. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Lastfootstamper on May 21, 2021, 01:25:27 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: sickbeggar on May 21, 2021, 12:07:05 PM
I just don't see the correlation with getting Europe and Grealish staying. What's the agenda or assumption? Grealish will stay if we get into Europe? Win a cup? CL place? Win the league? MON got into Europe and got to a cup final. People like Barry still left. Unless the club are planning to throw City type levels of money at us, I really can't see us winning the league before Grealish is in his 30's. I presume he wants to win things so getting into Europe isn't really fulfilling that.
 

We didn't get to a cup final under O'Neill while Barry was still here. And MON hardly went all guns blazing at the uefa cup. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: sickbeggar on May 21, 2021, 01:32:31 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on May 21, 2021, 01:25:27 PM
Quote from: sickbeggar on May 21, 2021, 12:07:05 PM
I just don't see the correlation with getting Europe and Grealish staying. What's the agenda or assumption? Grealish will stay if we get into Europe? Win a cup? CL place? Win the league? MON got into Europe and got to a cup final. People like Barry still left. Unless the club are planning to throw City type levels of money at us, I really can't see us winning the league before Grealish is in his 30's. I presume he wants to win things so getting into Europe isn't really fulfilling that.
 

We didn't get to a cup final under O'Neill while Barry was still here. And MON hardly went all guns blazing at the uefa cup.

Point taken, but players still left whether that's Barry, Milner or Young. Whoever. It's like Kane saying he wants to "win things". Well CL finals and 2nd place finishes obviously isn't that to him. So i'm not sure progress like a 5th place finish is going to be enough to keep Grealish. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on May 21, 2021, 01:36:58 PM
			

			

				Assuming he stays here for next season, I think as long we're challenging for things Jack will be happy. No more of this "10th place is better than 11th so we're still improving" way of thinking.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: eamonn on May 21, 2021, 02:32:30 PM
			

			

				I think West Ham and Everton can be emulated even next season. Leicester might take a bit longer to catch-up but it's not impossible.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on May 21, 2021, 02:41:01 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: sickbeggar on May 21, 2021, 01:32:31 PM
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on May 21, 2021, 01:25:27 PM
Quote from: sickbeggar on May 21, 2021, 12:07:05 PM
I just don't see the correlation with getting Europe and Grealish staying. What's the agenda or assumption? Grealish will stay if we get into Europe? Win a cup? CL place? Win the league? MON got into Europe and got to a cup final. People like Barry still left. Unless the club are planning to throw City type levels of money at us, I really can't see us winning the league before Grealish is in his 30's. I presume he wants to win things so getting into Europe isn't really fulfilling that.
 

We didn't get to a cup final under O'Neill while Barry was still here. And MON hardly went all guns blazing at the uefa cup.

Point taken, but players still left whether that's Barry, Milner or Young. Whoever. It's like Kane saying he wants to "win things". Well CL finals and 2nd place finishes obviously isn't that to him. So i'm not sure progress like a 5th place finish is going to be enough to keep Grealish. 

True, we could lose Grealish next month never mind next season

I think the main difference is money
I know we don’t like talking about it we want to do things in a steady and ethical way 
but without it you can’t have the ambition these players want to see, like Spurs no money no chance

Arsenal can’t even afford to keep Gunnersaurous yet think they are in the hat for Grealish 

First time in our lives our finances are better than anyone else in football apart from maybe one
And I agree with Nev in a previous post about not going about it in a Man City way but at some point or other You’re going to have to spend big to compete and we can which gives us a massive advantage

If Spurs lose Kane and we keep Grealish we should be overtaking them next season
Players leave to go to more ambitious clubs
We are that more ambitious club






			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on May 21, 2021, 02:41:46 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on May 21, 2021, 01:36:58 PM
Assuming he stays here for next season, I think as long we're challenging for things Jack will be happy. No more of this "10th place is better than 11th so we're still improving" way of thinking.

No more of? Who's intimated they are thinking that way? Or is it just nonsense to try and prove a point about 'Dismal Dean' and his supporters?  ;)
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on May 21, 2021, 02:50:35 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Drummond on May 21, 2021, 02:41:46 PM
Quote from: Risso on May 21, 2021, 01:36:58 PM
Assuming he stays here for next season, I think as long we're challenging for things Jack will be happy. No more of this "10th place is better than 11th so we're still improving" way of thinking.

No more of? Who's intimated they are thinking that way? Or is it just nonsense to try and prove a point about 'Dismal Dean' and his supporters?  ;)

If this season we'd finished 17th and got 2-3 more points than last year I don't think anyone would be saying we'd improved but a 50% increase (near enough) on points is a big improvement.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Hookeysmith on May 21, 2021, 02:51:04 PM
			

			

				If we improve season on season (which we currently are since Dean came in) then although the margins for error get slimmer we will eventually get to the top. If we get too high too soon then the drop back is huge - incremental improvements through coaching youngsters and purchasing top quality players in key positions will do it.

I am as impatient as the next fan but this journey feels more secure than any other time with our Millionaire owners previously.

These people are the real deal  ;)
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: LeeB on May 21, 2021, 02:54:50 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Hookeysmith on May 21, 2021, 02:51:04 PM
If we improve season on season (which we currently are since Dean came in) then although the margins for error get slimmer we will eventually get to the top. If we get too high too soon then the drop back is huge - incremental improvements through coaching youngsters and purchasing top quality players in key positions will do it.

I am as impatient as the next fan but this journey feels more secure than any other time with our Millionaire owners previously.

These people are the real deal  ;)

Indeed, and I'm happy to sit back and enjoy the ride. Risso's up front though nagging the driver with "Are we there yet?", and john e is worried were not going to get there in time.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on May 21, 2021, 03:03:11 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: LeeB on May 21, 2021, 02:54:50 PM
Quote from: Hookeysmith on May 21, 2021, 02:51:04 PM
If we improve season on season (which we currently are since Dean came in) then although the margins for error get slimmer we will eventually get to the top. If we get too high too soon then the drop back is huge - incremental improvements through coaching youngsters and purchasing top quality players in key positions will do it.

I am as impatient as the next fan but this journey feels more secure than any other time with our Millionaire owners previously.

These people are the real deal  ;)

Indeed, and I'm happy to sit back and enjoy the ride. Risso's up front though nagging the driver with "Are we there yet?", and john e is worried were not going to get there in time.

Yep that’s the best summary yet 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Hockley Lion on May 21, 2021, 03:12:00 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Drummond on May 21, 2021, 02:41:46 PM
Quote from: Risso on May 21, 2021, 01:36:58 PM
Assuming he stays here for next season, I think as long we're challenging for things Jack will be happy. No more of this "10th place is better than 11th so we're still improving" way of thinking.

No more of? Who's intimated they are thinking that way? Or is it just nonsense to try and prove a point about 'Dismal Dean' and his supporters?  ;)

I agree with you about what would keep Jack happy next season, but associating people who defended DS with settling for a 10th place next season is just wrong.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: eamonn on May 21, 2021, 03:39:51 PM
			

			

				If we could win the FA Cup with Jack as captain, I don't think any of us would begrudge whatever move he may make after. Doesn't sound too small-time, does it?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on May 21, 2021, 03:42:33 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: eamonn on May 21, 2021, 03:39:51 PM
If we could win the FA Cup with Jack as captain, I don't think any of us would begrudge whatever move he may make after. Doesn't sound too small-time, does it?
sorry him turning up in a 'The Mighty Reds YNWA' or manure shirt would be fetch the bucket time.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on May 21, 2021, 03:57:27 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Clampy on May 21, 2021, 01:04:28 PM
One thing I've liked this season is that we've gone into nearly every game thinking we can get something out of it. OK, we haven't obviously but being confident beforehand is a nice feeling and not something we're used to.

Exactly my feeling too. 

One of my all time favourite Villa moments was (I think) before Christmas, and Jack and company were playing '76/77 football. Then the camera focussed on Jack's face - apart from his infectious smile his eyes were ablaze. This was Dean's Premier League team playing like kids in the park and just having a whale of a time.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: LeeB on May 21, 2021, 04:04:41 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Woofles The Wonder Dog on May 21, 2021, 03:57:27 PM
Quote from: Clampy on May 21, 2021, 01:04:28 PM
One thing I've liked this season is that we've gone into nearly every game thinking we can get something out of it. OK, we haven't obviously but being confident beforehand is a nice feeling and not something we're used to.

Exactly my feeling too. 

One of my all time favourite Villa moments was (I think) before Christmas, and Jack and company were playing '76/77 football. Then the camera focussed on Jack's face - apart from his infectious smile his eyes were ablaze. This was Dean's Premier League team playing like kids in the park and just having a whale of a time.

This team have bought me more joy through the exuberance of play at times than any since Little's team.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: brontebilly on May 21, 2021, 05:10:46 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: john e on May 21, 2021, 02:41:01 PM
Quote from: sickbeggar on May 21, 2021, 01:32:31 PM
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on May 21, 2021, 01:25:27 PM
Quote from: sickbeggar on May 21, 2021, 12:07:05 PM
I just don't see the correlation with getting Europe and Grealish staying. What's the agenda or assumption? Grealish will stay if we get into Europe? Win a cup? CL place? Win the league? MON got into Europe and got to a cup final. People like Barry still left. Unless the club are planning to throw City type levels of money at us, I really can't see us winning the league before Grealish is in his 30's. I presume he wants to win things so getting into Europe isn't really fulfilling that.
 

We didn't get to a cup final under O'Neill while Barry was still here. And MON hardly went all guns blazing at the uefa cup.

Point taken, but players still left whether that's Barry, Milner or Young. Whoever. It's like Kane saying he wants to "win things". Well CL finals and 2nd place finishes obviously isn't that to him. So i'm not sure progress like a 5th place finish is going to be enough to keep Grealish. 

True, we could lose Grealish next month never mind next season

I think the main difference is money
I know we don’t like talking about it we want to do things in a steady and ethical way 
but without it you can’t have the ambition these players want to see, like Spurs no money no chance

Arsenal can’t even afford to keep Gunnersaurous yet think they are in the hat for Grealish 

First time in our lives our finances are better than anyone else in football apart from maybe one
And I agree with Nev in a previous post about not going about it in a Man City way but at some point or other You’re going to have to spend big to compete and we can which gives us a massive advantage

If Spurs lose Kane and we keep Grealish we should be overtaking them next season
Players leave to go to more ambitious clubs
We are that more ambitious club

Good point on Spurs, a Grealish inspired Villa should be finishing ahead of a Kane less Spurs. Spurs look in a right hole. 

Despite the addition of a number of very good players, our fortunes seem intrinsically linked to the form and fitness of one player. Sure Grealish is brilliant but we shouldn't be falling to relegation threatened without him. The other players against Spurs just seemed transformed with him on the pitch. I'm struggling to think of another player who has that kind of influence on his team (Roy Keane at his peak for Ireland maybe). 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: LeeB on May 21, 2021, 05:15:19 PM
			

			

				The impact on his teammates was evident right from the start, when Tactics Tim picked him he bought a sudden upturn in form out of Cleverley, Delph and Benteke.



			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on May 21, 2021, 05:29:21 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: LeeB on May 21, 2021, 04:04:41 PM
Quote from: Woofles The Wonder Dog on May 21, 2021, 03:57:27 PM
Quote from: Clampy on May 21, 2021, 01:04:28 PM
One thing I've liked this season is that we've gone into nearly every game thinking we can get something out of it. OK, we haven't obviously but being confident beforehand is a nice feeling and not something we're used to.

Exactly my feeling too. 

One of my all time favourite Villa moments was (I think) before Christmas, and Jack and company were playing '76/77 football. Then the camera focussed on Jack's face - apart from his infectious smile his eyes were ablaze. This was Dean's Premier League team playing like kids in the park and just having a whale of a time.

This team have bought me more joy through the exuberance of play at times than any since Little's team.

We've beaten Arsenal, Spurs, Everton, Leeds, Leicester and of course destroyed Liverpool. It's the best season for many a year and the joy of some of those wins, like the other night but particularly Liverpool has made every single one of us want more. And we're not scared now. 

Next step, the FA Cup. I'd honestly die happy if we did it as it's the only one we haven't won in my lifetime. Though the UEFA Cup would be nice.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Hockley Lion on May 21, 2021, 06:17:19 PM
			

			

				As a matter of interest. Where do folks think we'd be now if Jack hadn't been injured? He obviously improves the players around him and frightens the cack out of the opposition. I don't think it's too optimistic to put us 7th or 8th.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: jwarry on May 21, 2021, 06:22:13 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Hockley Lion on May 21, 2021, 06:17:19 PM
As a matter of interest. Where do folks think we'd be now if Jack hadn't been injured? He obviously improves the players around him and frightens the cack out of the opposition. I don't think it's too optimistic to put us 7th or 8th.

Equally where would Spurs be if they had achieved the rip off of all time?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Hockley Lion on May 21, 2021, 06:30:40 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: jwarry on May 21, 2021, 06:22:13 PM
Quote from: Hockley Lion on May 21, 2021, 06:17:19 PM
As a matter of interest. Where do folks think we'd be now if Jack hadn't been injured? He obviously improves the players around him and frightens the cack out of the opposition. I don't think it's too optimistic to put us 7th or 8th.

Equally where would Spurs be if they had achieved the rip off of all time?

Too true. I've just looked again at the games and 7th or 8th looks comfortable.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: chrisw1 on May 21, 2021, 07:15:55 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: jwarry on May 21, 2021, 06:22:13 PM
Quote from: Hockley Lion on May 21, 2021, 06:17:19 PM
As a matter of interest. Where do folks think we'd be now if Jack hadn't been injured? He obviously improves the players around him and frightens the cack out of the opposition. I don't think it's too optimistic to put us 7th or 8th.

Equally where would Spurs be if they had achieved the rip off of all time?
It still makes me laugh when I think about that.  In our hour of need Levy tried to fuck us over - probably the biggest mistake of his career.  We only wanted £25m and he had to try it on.  I hope the Spurs  fans remind him about it regulalrly.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: VILLA MOLE on May 21, 2021, 07:19:44 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: chrisw1 on May 21, 2021, 07:15:55 PM
Quote from: jwarry on May 21, 2021, 06:22:13 PM
Quote from: Hockley Lion on May 21, 2021, 06:17:19 PM
As a matter of interest. Where do folks think we'd be now if Jack hadn't been injured? He obviously improves the players around him and frightens the cack out of the opposition. I don't think it's too optimistic to put us 7th or 8th.

Equally where would Spurs be if they had achieved the rip off of all time?
It still makes me laugh when I think about that.  In our hour of need Levy tried to fuck us over - probably the biggest mistake of his career.  We only wanted £25m and he had to try it on.  I hope the Spurs  fans remind him about it regulalrly.


the master negotiator that he is ! 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: West Derby Villan on May 21, 2021, 11:00:14 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Drummond on May 21, 2021, 05:29:21 PM
Quote from: LeeB on May 21, 2021, 04:04:41 PM
Quote from: Woofles The Wonder Dog on May 21, 2021, 03:57:27 PM
Quote from: Clampy on May 21, 2021, 01:04:28 PM
One thing I've liked this season is that we've gone into nearly every game thinking we can get something out of it. OK, we haven't obviously but being confident beforehand is a nice feeling and not something we're used to.

Exactly my feeling too. 

One of my all time favourite Villa moments was (I think) before Christmas, and Jack and company were playing '76/77 football. Then the camera focussed on Jack's face - apart from his infectious smile his eyes were ablaze. This was Dean's Premier League team playing like kids in the park and just having a whale of a time.

This team have bought me more joy through the exuberance of play at times than any since Little's team.

We've beaten Arsenal, Spurs, Everton, Leeds, Leicester and of course destroyed Liverpool. It's the best season for many a year and the joy of some of those wins, like the other night but particularly Liverpool has made every single one of us want more. And we're not scared now. 

Next step, the FA Cup. I'd honestly die happy if we did it as it's the only one we haven't won in my lifetime. Though the UEFA Cup would be nice.


Drummond, I think a lot on here agree with the acquisition of the Holy Grail as being the “Last Request” before we happily pop our clogs
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: RamboandBruno on May 22, 2021, 09:53:39 AM
			

			

				I actually went to a real life pub last night and said to a mate, that the ultimate would be the FA Cup with Grealish and Smith. I know there are bigger prizes but the romance of it all....
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Richard E on May 22, 2021, 09:58:00 AM
			

			

				I think I’d cry myself into a puddle with emotion if that happened.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on May 22, 2021, 12:34:20 PM
			

			

				Yep, I may just die of a heart attack at the sheer joy and exultation. A Grealish winner against Man Utd having run rings round them all game. 

Martinez to be the first keeper to make a hat-trick of penalty saves in the 90 minutes. 

Beating Liverpool in the Semi (again) and Leeds in Quarters.

A non league team in a full Villa Park and giving them the gate receipts in the 3rd round. 

Beating Blues in 4th round, West Brom in 5th...


			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Villan For Life on May 22, 2021, 12:44:39 PM
			

			

				It’s the only domestic trophy that I’m yet to see us win. As a 50-something I want us to be able to sing “My eyes have seen the glory of the Villa win the cup” again. And again and again.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Legion on May 22, 2021, 12:50:55 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Villan For Life on May 22, 2021, 12:44:39 PM
It’s the only domestic trophy that I’m yet to see us win. As a 50-something I want us to be able to sing “My eyes have seen the glory of the Villa win the cup” again. And again and again.

Same for me but without the singing. I don't do singing.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: clash city rocker on May 22, 2021, 01:07:47 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Legion on May 22, 2021, 12:50:55 PM
Quote from: Villan For Life on May 22, 2021, 12:44:39 PM
It’s the only domestic trophy that I’m yet to see us win. As a 50-something I want us to be able to sing “My eyes have seen the glory of the Villa win the cup” again. And again and again.

Same for me but without the singing. I don't do singing.

And me plus I do lots of singing especially when pissed which has happened more than once at Villa games.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: LeeB on May 22, 2021, 01:17:06 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Villan For Life on May 22, 2021, 12:44:39 PM
It’s the only domestic trophy that I’m yet to see us win. As a 50-something I want us to be able to sing “My eyes have seen the glory of the Villa win the cup” again. And again and again.

We need to win another 4 for the for the following line to scan correctly.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SaddVillan on May 23, 2021, 09:31:00 AM
			

			

				From today's Observer - Fan's end of season reviews 

Aston Villa - Jonathan Pritchard

We’d have been thrilled with the idea of 50+ points and easy survival last September. The late-season dip shows again our reliance on Grealish, but that shouldn’t blur the bigger picture. This is a work in progress and Dean Smith and co are doing a great job. At times our football was so good it made me simultaneously giddily excited and sick not to be there. At other times we’ve been predictable and meek. So, more investment is needed. But the platform is there to sustain a genuine challenge for Europe next year. And the under-18s are in their cup final tomorrow. Exciting times. 9/10

Stars/flops Jack remains the apple of every Villa fan’s eye. He somehow managed to go up another level this year. Martinez was the best signing, Cash, too, was a snip and Targett and Konsa have turned into proper top-eight players. Watkins is more proof that there’s value in lower divisions, and his courteous manner makes him firm “marry my daughter” material. Barkley, though, wouldn’t be allowed her phone number.

What needs to happen this summer? We have a good first XI but need a good 18 to really compete. Midfield is the biggest area for investment. Minor legends Elmohamady and Hourihane will probably move on, with not a dry eye in the house.

What made you smile? Winning a seat for today in the ballot. It’ll be wonderful to revisit my three spiritual homes after all this time: the Pendolino, the pub and Villa Park. It’s been a long time coming: I’ll be returning home wobbly, hoarse and a bit emotional. Sorry, Mrs P.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: PeterWithe on May 23, 2021, 09:33:48 AM
			

			

				What’s a Pendolino?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: danno on May 23, 2021, 09:42:22 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: PeterWithe on May 23, 2021, 09:33:48 AM
What’s a Pendolino?

A type of train. Although he must commute alot for it to be one of his spiritual homes.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Martin Carruthers on May 23, 2021, 09:42:40 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: PeterWithe on May 23, 2021, 09:33:48 AM
What’s a Pendolino?

A train, the long distance type ones.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on May 23, 2021, 03:45:25 PM
			

			

				Reading that I thought some type of antidepressant. Never understood why the Observer always go to him for the fans view.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on May 23, 2021, 06:26:05 PM
			

			

				What I like about this season is we've given it a real go home and away against pretty much every team in the league.

First double over Arsenal since early 90s.

First win over Spurs since 2015.

4 points off Chelsea

And seven goals against Liverpool which I keep forgetting we did.

Shame we seem in the annual vortex v Man. United but we played o.k home and away v them aswell imo, oh for some luck one day in key moments in games v them.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: eamonn on May 23, 2021, 06:45:49 PM
			

			

				9/10?! Needs to have a word with BronteBilly who'll talk him into taking the mark down a notch or two.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: LeeB on May 23, 2021, 06:46:58 PM
			

			

				The man is doing a tremendous job and long may it continue.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Monty on May 23, 2021, 06:58:10 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: LeeB on May 23, 2021, 06:46:58 PM
The man is doing a tremendous job and long may it continue.

He has a very good habit of coming up with answers every time there are questions to be asked. Beating Tuechel, the best in-game manager around, is a massive feather in his cap. Great stuff.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Steve67 on May 23, 2021, 07:09:29 PM
			

			

				Again, when you look at the line up today, and not taking anything away from the result or the scorers but with more consistent performers in the side, we will be a very competitive side.  More physicality and pace and we will scare teams shitless.

Dean is doing a good job.  He is not and should never be beyond criticism but fully deserves the support of the club and fans. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on May 23, 2021, 07:10:48 PM
			

			

				I’ve enjoyed this season immensely, with the ups and the downs and sideways bits. The Manager gets a big tick for me.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on May 23, 2021, 07:13:04 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: PeterWithe on May 23, 2021, 09:33:48 AM
What’s a Pendolino?

Cafu.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: brontebilly on May 23, 2021, 07:13:12 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: eamonn on May 23, 2021, 06:45:49 PM
9/10?! Needs to have a word with BronteBilly who'll talk him into taking the mark down a notch or two.

I think Jonathan got a bit misty eyed in that post, 7/10 ! 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: PhilVill on May 23, 2021, 07:47:04 PM
			

			

				It’s a good and very solid 7.5 out of 10 from me. Some tear your hair out moments but a lot more excellent moments. He will hopefully learn from the bad times and grow further next season. If some good buys again then top eight needs to be his target from the hierarchy . Hope he and all the players enjoy a well deserved break 😀
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on May 23, 2021, 07:47:06 PM
			

			

				A great end to the season to be fair. Some strength in central midfield and we’ll be right.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: danno on May 23, 2021, 08:33:39 PM
			

			

				Along with the owners, he's reversed ten years of damage in two years.
Compare the 2011 side with today's.

Friedel or Martinez
Warnock or Targett
Dunne or Mings
Collins or Konsa
Hutton or Cash
Cuellar or Hause

Petrov or McGinn
Reo-Coker or Nakamba
Young or Grealish 
Downing or Traore 
Bent or Watkins
Barkley or Ireland

Even if you think Petrov and Downing were better than McGinn and Traore, I reckon the rest are the equal or better than their 2011 counterparts.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Monty on May 23, 2021, 08:35:53 PM
			

			

				Well I'd have Petrov and McGinn in the side rather than be stuck with NRC and McGinn, and Young over Downing and Traoré to play along with Grealish, but point taken. It is a talented side.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Toronto Villa on May 23, 2021, 08:43:46 PM
			

			

				I’ve been a harsh critic of Dean Smith at times this season. But all in all, looking back at everything he’s done very, very well indeed. Nice job boss. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: OCD on May 23, 2021, 09:39:19 PM
			

			

				Petrov and McGinn in midfield would be like when we had Petrov and Milner in midfield. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: sickbeggar on May 24, 2021, 05:58:54 AM
			

			

				20 points higher than last season. A massive improvement whatever way you look at it.  Another 10 points next season and we'll be right in that European zone.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Baldy on May 24, 2021, 07:21:43 AM
			

			

				I bet Deano wears claret and blue pyjamas. Villa through and through and it shows.

Modest enough to know he has room for improvement, particularly in the game management area. But he is working hard at this and improving all the time. He sets a great example to the players and practices what he preaches.

We will have a stronger bench next season and I can see Deano utilising this to the full. It was brave to bring on the youngsters against Spuds and Chelski and proved a masterstroke. A confidence booster all round.

Deano has done more than enough to show he can get Villa challenging for the top 6 and I can't wait for next season to start.

Thanks Deano for restoring pride into our great Club.  :)
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on May 24, 2021, 07:38:19 AM
			

			

				We have finished the season well
But we know the reason for that

If there’s one thing we’ve learnt from the last two games it’s we have to keep Grealish Next season and continue to build around him
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on May 24, 2021, 07:46:30 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: john e on May 24, 2021, 07:38:19 AM
We have finished the season well
But we know the reason for that

If there’s one thing we’ve learnt from the last two games it’s we have to keep Grealish Next season and continue to build around him

We do know the reason. Good players, playing to a system. Midfielders closing the opposition, forwards on form, scoring goals and a very solid defensive unit.

We're on an upwards trajectory. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: PaulTheVillan on May 24, 2021, 08:05:05 AM
			

			

				I’d give Smith a solid 7/10 for this season. 

I don’t think he adapts enough when other managers make changes mid game and we lose our momentum. 

I don’t know if it’s down to the squad but Smith seems very rigid with his formation.  

Big summer in terms of recruitment. We will need 2 back up full backs, another striker & winger. I’d like us to get a midfield destroyer. Someone ugly in the middle. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: jwarry on May 24, 2021, 08:09:59 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Baldy on May 24, 2021, 07:21:43 AM
I bet Deano wears claret and blue pyjamas. Villa through and through and it shows.

Modest enough to know he has room for improvement, particularly in the game management area. But he is working hard at this and improving all the time. He sets a great example to the players and practices what he preaches.

We will have a stronger bench next season and I can see Deano utilising this to the full. It was brave to bring on the youngsters against Spuds and Chelski and proved a masterstroke. A confidence booster all round.

Deano has done more than enough to show he can get Villa challenging for the top 6 and I can't wait for next season to start.

Thanks Deano for restoring pride into our great Club.  :)

This is the thing, Dean is also still learning himself and he’s big enough to admit it, unlike Mourinho who sticks to what he knows 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: sickbeggar on May 24, 2021, 08:11:32 AM
			

			

				I think we dropped over 20 points to teams finishing below us in the league and Grealish played in some of them, so plenty of scope for improvement whether Grealish is playing or not.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: chrisw1 on May 24, 2021, 11:52:31 AM
			

			

				Well done Deano, a good end to a good season.  Very dissapointing run from January and there's a bit of 'what could have been' for me.  Hopefully we've learned from it and are in a good position to kick on next season. 

The Villa go marching on.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Allan C on May 24, 2021, 04:35:33 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: jwarry on May 24, 2021, 08:09:59 AM
Quote from: Baldy on May 24, 2021, 07:21:43 AM
I bet Deano wears claret and blue pyjamas. Villa through and through and it shows.

Modest enough to know he has room for improvement, particularly in the game management area. But he is working hard at this and improving all the time. He sets a great example to the players and practices what he preaches.

We will have a stronger bench next season and I can see Deano utilising this to the full. It was brave to bring on the youngsters against Spuds and Chelski and proved a masterstroke. A confidence booster all round.

Deano has done more than enough to show he can get Villa challenging for the top 6 and I can't wait for next season to start.

Thanks Deano for restoring pride into our great Club.  :)

This is the thing, Dean is also still learning himself and he’s big enough to admit it, unlike Mourinho who sticks to what he knows
Exactly,  I’ve been going on about this all season. Smith has had two full seasons experience in the PL and there is definite positive improvement. That compares favourably with every manager who finished above him. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on May 24, 2021, 06:39:49 PM
			

			

				I bet Smith is currently one of the very few managers in the Division, with more than one completed season, who has finished higher each season he's been in it.


			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: West Derby Villan on May 24, 2021, 06:55:11 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Allan C on May 24, 2021, 04:35:33 PM
Quote from: jwarry on May 24, 2021, 08:09:59 AM
Quote from: Baldy on May 24, 2021, 07:21:43 AM
I bet Deano wears claret and blue pyjamas. Villa through and through and it shows.

Modest enough to know he has room for improvement, particularly in the game management area. But he is working hard at this and improving all the time. He sets a great example to the players and practices what he preaches.

We will have a stronger bench next season and I can see Deano utilising this to the full. It was brave to bring on the youngsters against Spuds and Chelski and proved a masterstroke. A confidence booster all round.

Deano has done more than enough to show he can get Villa challenging for the top 6 and I can't wait for next season to start.

Thanks Deano for restoring pride into our great Club.  :)

This is the thing, Dean is also still learning himself and he’s big enough to admit it, unlike Mourinho who sticks to what he knows
Exactly,  I’ve been going on about this all season. Smith has had two full seasons experience in the PL and there is definite positive improvement. That compares favourably with every manager who finished above him.

Spot on, he’s happy to listen to others and improve, he’ll be even better next season after this seasons experience.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Hockley Lion on May 24, 2021, 07:05:19 PM
			

			

				Let's just hope Southgate and the lads do well in the Euros. Dean is currently the best English manager in the league based on position. It's a scary thought if they're avoiding foreign managers... and Bruce😬.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Brazilian Villain on May 24, 2021, 07:05:50 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Drummond on May 24, 2021, 06:39:49 PM
I bet Smith is currently one of the very few managers in the Division, with more than one completed season, who has finished higher each season he's been in it. 

Solskjær's one, let's hope that run doesn't continue next year.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ez on May 25, 2021, 11:24:38 AM
			

			

				11th place is a good finish for us this season. I'm glad we won those last 2 games so we didn't finish on a downer.  Onwards and upwards next season.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: brontebilly on May 25, 2021, 11:36:49 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: ez on May 25, 2021, 11:24:38 AM
11th place is a good finish for us this season. I'm glad we won those last 2 games so we didn't finish on a downer.  Onwards and upwards next season.

Agreed, it's importance to finish strong. Beating 2 of the ESL 6 with a half fit Grealish on the pitch is all the better. Think we should be an attractive proposition for many players this summer especially if the main man stays. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: darren woolley on May 25, 2021, 11:48:12 AM
			

			

				We've had a good season I'm pleased with us I'm really looking forward to next season.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SamTheMouse on May 25, 2021, 11:58:16 AM
			

			

				He's doing everything that's asked of him, as he has from day one. There will be ups and downs, but the overall trajectory is pointed in the right direction.

Top bloke, too. Well done, Dean.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Lastfootstamper on May 25, 2021, 11:58:57 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: ez on May 25, 2021, 11:24:38 AM
11th place is a good finish for us this season. I'm glad we won those last 2 games so we didn't finish on a downer.  Onwards and upwards next season.
 

It is good, and 55 points would have been enough in recent seasons for finishing 7th-9th. As others have alluded to, perhaps the biggest disappointment of the season is failing to capitalise against some shitter sides. How West Ham took 1 point off us baffles me, let alone 6!
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: LeeB on May 25, 2021, 12:03:08 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on May 25, 2021, 11:58:57 AM
Quote from: ez on May 25, 2021, 11:24:38 AM
11th place is a good finish for us this season. I'm glad we won those last 2 games so we didn't finish on a downer.  Onwards and upwards next season.
 

It is good, and 55 points would have been enough in recent seasons for finishing 7th-9th. As others have alluded to, perhaps the biggest disappointment of the season is failing to capitalise against some shitter sides. How West Ham took 1 point off us baffles me, let alone 6!

Burnley took 4 points and we absolutely battered them, twice.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: manic-road on May 25, 2021, 12:08:48 PM
			

			

				Just before the season kicked off, I was hoping for steady improvement and finish between 15-11 place and to avoid a relegation scrap on the last day, well we were never in any danger of getting sucked into a scrap near the bottom and at times we played some excellent football.

It’s a young squad with very little Prem League experience but the majority of the players have improved, and we had some great results throughout the season. I’d imagine over the next few seasons the squad will add more quality and depth and we will kick on. B+ for Dean this season, after over 10 years of shit football, shit managers and shit owners we can start next season with more optimism.  
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Lastfootstamper on May 25, 2021, 12:13:43 PM
			

			

				11 extra points there, level with Leicester. More goals next season, please. Let's put teams to the sword. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: eamonn on May 25, 2021, 06:31:44 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on May 25, 2021, 11:58:57 AM
Quote from: ez on May 25, 2021, 11:24:38 AM
11th place is a good finish for us this season. I'm glad we won those last 2 games so we didn't finish on a downer.  Onwards and upwards next season.
 

It is good, and 55 points would have been enough in recent seasons for finishing 7th-9th. As others have alluded to, perhaps the biggest disappointment of the season is failing to capitalise against some shitter sides. How West Ham took 1 point off us baffles me, let alone 6!

We were second best against West Ham at VP. Never got going. Should have done them at the O2 though.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: VILLA MOLE on May 25, 2021, 06:39:22 PM
			

			

				i think some physical  teams have bullied us a bit this season , Burnley, west ham ,palace and lesser extent Leeds .  that is one thing i would like us to address next season 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on May 25, 2021, 06:43:27 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: VILLA MOLE on May 25, 2021, 06:39:22 PM
i think some physical  teams have bullied us a bit this season , Burnley, west ham ,palace and lesser extent Leeds .  that is one thing i would like us to address next season 

That's why we need a big nasty bugger in midfield, that's where teams have out-muscled us.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on May 25, 2021, 06:45:36 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: paul_e on May 25, 2021, 06:43:27 PM
Quote from: VILLA MOLE on May 25, 2021, 06:39:22 PM
i think some physical  teams have bullied us a bit this season , Burnley, west ham ,palace and lesser extent Leeds .  that is one thing i would like us to address next season 

That's why we need a big nasty bugger in midfield, that's where teams have out-muscled us.

The problem with being nasty buggers is they don’t tend to be very good at football
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Steve67 on May 25, 2021, 07:44:00 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: john e on May 25, 2021, 06:45:36 PM
Quote from: paul_e on May 25, 2021, 06:43:27 PM
Quote from: VILLA MOLE on May 25, 2021, 06:39:22 PM
i think some physical  teams have bullied us a bit this season , Burnley, west ham ,palace and lesser extent Leeds .  that is one thing i would like us to address next season 

That's why we need a big nasty bugger in midfield, that's where teams have out-muscled us.

The problem with being nasty buggers is they don’t tend to be very good at football

And yet John, all the top teams have players who can 'mix it'.  All of the teams in the top six have a least one player each, most have two, who are good at either kicking people, closing down, pinching the ball, tactical fouling or the really good one's who can do all of the above.  
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Toronto Villa on May 25, 2021, 07:49:55 PM
			

			

				Who is Chelsea’s nasty bugger who can mix it? You could argue they have Kante who is just a rich man’s version of Nakamba. Who was Barcelona’s nasty bugger in midfield when they had Iniesta and Xavi? Man U don’t have one now really. 

What we need is better footballers who can keep control of the ball and win it back quickly and fairly. I wouldn’t call John McGinn a nasty bugger (stupid that he has the most bookings) but he chases down the play better than anyone else we have. What we have to better at is keeping the ball, chasing it down and winning it when we don’t have it and moving it quickly to the players who can cause damage. 

One of the best example of that? That not so colossus of a man Gareth Barry...He was quick in small spaces, could win the ball back but critically was brilliant at moving it quickly to the likes of Ashley Young who then got it in space to attack the full back. We need more of that.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Steve67 on May 25, 2021, 08:06:49 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Toronto Villa on May 25, 2021, 07:49:55 PM
Who is Chelsea’s nasty bugger who can mix it? You could argue they have Kante who is just a rich man’s version of Nakamba. Who was Barcelona’s nasty bugger in midfield when they had Iniesta and Xavi? Man U don’t have one now really. 

What we need is better footballers who can keep control of the ball and win it back quickly and fairly. I wouldn’t call John McGinn a nasty bugger (stupid that he has the most bookings) but he chases down the play better than anyone else we have. What we have to better at is keeping the ball, chasing it down and winning it when we don’t have it and moving it quickly to the players who can cause damage. 

One of the best example of that? That not so colossus of a man Gareth Barry...He was quick in small spaces, could win the ball back but critically was brilliant at moving it quickly to the likes of Ashley Young who then got it in space to attack the full back. We need more of that.

Kovacic.  He looks like a proper thug, smashed nose etc.  Good player though.  Is that him TV?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: danno on May 25, 2021, 08:26:03 PM
			

			

				Busquets, for Barcelona.
Man Utd, have Fred, McTominay and Matic.

Not really nasty buggers, But all players who are better at stopping attacks than their more creatively focused team mates.

Fernandinho is the best of the lot though, I counted three Man City goals on Sunday that started with him.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ian. on May 25, 2021, 08:29:09 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: john e on May 25, 2021, 06:45:36 PM
Quote from: paul_e on May 25, 2021, 06:43:27 PM
Quote from: VILLA MOLE on May 25, 2021, 06:39:22 PM
i think some physical  teams have bullied us a bit this season , Burnley, west ham ,palace and lesser extent Leeds .  that is one thing i would like us to address next season 

That's why we need a big nasty bugger in midfield, that's where teams have out-muscled us.

The problem with being nasty buggers is they don’t tend to be very good at football

Tomáš Souček can, he’s a tough one and is a very good footballer, even scores a few.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on May 25, 2021, 08:31:42 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Toronto Villa on May 25, 2021, 07:49:55 PM
Who is Chelsea’s nasty bugger who can mix it? You could argue they have Kante who is just a rich man’s version of Nakamba. Who was Barcelona’s nasty bugger in midfield when they had Iniesta and Xavi? Man U don’t have one now really. 

What we need is better footballers who can keep control of the ball and win it back quickly and fairly. I wouldn’t call John McGinn a nasty bugger (stupid that he has the most bookings) but he chases down the play better than anyone else we have. What we have to better at is keeping the ball, chasing it down and winning it when we don’t have it and moving it quickly to the players who can cause damage. 

One of the best example of that? That not so colossus of a man Gareth Barry...He was quick in small spaces, could win the ball back but critically was brilliant at moving it quickly to the likes of Ashley Young who then got it in space to attack the full back. We need more of that.

Busquets was a key player in that Barca side because he did all the grunt work to allow Xavi and Iniesta to dominate, Chelsea have Kovacic and Kante, Man U fans mostly think they've struggled because Fred and McTominay haven't been good enough in front of the back 4.

Also it's you and John that decided I mean a brute who can barely kick a ball when I've said a number of times now i want a Vieira style player who can fight his corner against teams like Burnley but also has the game to be a part in us playing good football. I also think McGinn and Luiz (and probably Sanson as well) will be better with someone like that behind them and it would be great to have that player in there with Ramsey and Chuk. Berge and Locatelli are the 2 I've mentioned as, in my opinion, gettable and good enough. I like Koopmeiners as well but I think he might have Champions League offers.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Toronto Villa on May 25, 2021, 08:32:12 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Steve67 on May 25, 2021, 08:06:49 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on May 25, 2021, 07:49:55 PM
Who is Chelsea’s nasty bugger who can mix it? You could argue they have Kante who is just a rich man’s version of Nakamba. Who was Barcelona’s nasty bugger in midfield when they had Iniesta and Xavi? Man U don’t have one now really. 

What we need is better footballers who can keep control of the ball and win it back quickly and fairly. I wouldn’t call John McGinn a nasty bugger (stupid that he has the most bookings) but he chases down the play better than anyone else we have. What we have to better at is keeping the ball, chasing it down and winning it when we don’t have it and moving it quickly to the players who can cause damage. 

One of the best example of that? That not so colossus of a man Gareth Barry...He was quick in small spaces, could win the ball back but critically was brilliant at moving it quickly to the likes of Ashley Young who then got it in space to attack the full back. We need more of that.

Kovacic.  He looks like a proper thug, smashed nose etc.  Good player though.  Is that him TV?

He is but he’s not a midfield enforcer. Or whatever that role is described to be. He’s more your all action midfielder but in an attacking sense. I’d be happy with one of them too. The times I’ve seen him play well it’s doing something once the ball has been won and attacking the centre of the park and into the final third.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Toronto Villa on May 25, 2021, 08:34:13 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: paul_e on May 25, 2021, 08:31:42 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on May 25, 2021, 07:49:55 PM
Who is Chelsea’s nasty bugger who can mix it? You could argue they have Kante who is just a rich man’s version of Nakamba. Who was Barcelona’s nasty bugger in midfield when they had Iniesta and Xavi? Man U don’t have one now really. 

What we need is better footballers who can keep control of the ball and win it back quickly and fairly. I wouldn’t call John McGinn a nasty bugger (stupid that he has the most bookings) but he chases down the play better than anyone else we have. What we have to better at is keeping the ball, chasing it down and winning it when we don’t have it and moving it quickly to the players who can cause damage. 

One of the best example of that? That not so colossus of a man Gareth Barry...He was quick in small spaces, could win the ball back but critically was brilliant at moving it quickly to the likes of Ashley Young who then got it in space to attack the full back. We need more of that.

Busquets was a key player in that Barca side because he did all the grunt work to allow Xavi and Iniesta to dominate, Chelsea have Kovacic and Kante, Man U fans mostly think they've struggled because Fred and McTominay haven't been good enough in front of the back 4.

Also it's you and John that decided I mean a brute who can barely kick a ball when I've said a number of times now i want a Vieira style player who can fight his corner against teams like Burnley but also has the game to be a part in us playing good football. I also think McGinn and Luiz (and probably Sanson as well) will be better with someone like that behind them and it would be great to have that player in there with Ramsey and Chuk. Berge and Locatelli are the 2 I've mentioned as, in my opinion, gettable and good enough. I like Koopmeiners as well but I think he might have Champions League offers.

Calling a player a “big nasty bugger” doesn’t exactly conjure anything other than what’s on the tin. Viera style players come around once in a blue moon.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on May 25, 2021, 08:51:11 PM
			

			

				As far as I'm concerned it just means someone tall and strong who doesn't mind the rough stuff, again it's you that assumed I meant someone who can barely kick a ball.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Toronto Villa on May 25, 2021, 08:55:46 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: paul_e on May 25, 2021, 08:51:11 PM
As far as I'm concerned it just means someone tall and strong who doesn't mind the rough stuff, again it's you that assumed I meant someone who can barely kick a ball.

Where have I assume that? I used the term you used to describe a player. I’m making the point a player who wins the ball doesn’t need to be a “nasty bugger”. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on May 25, 2021, 08:56:59 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Toronto Villa on May 25, 2021, 08:34:13 PM
Quote from: paul_e on May 25, 2021, 08:31:42 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on May 25, 2021, 07:49:55 PM
Who is Chelsea’s nasty bugger who can mix it? You could argue they have Kante who is just a rich man’s version of Nakamba. Who was Barcelona’s nasty bugger in midfield when they had Iniesta and Xavi? Man U don’t have one now really. 

What we need is better footballers who can keep control of the ball and win it back quickly and fairly. I wouldn’t call John McGinn a nasty bugger (stupid that he has the most bookings) but he chases down the play better than anyone else we have. What we have to better at is keeping the ball, chasing it down and winning it when we don’t have it and moving it quickly to the players who can cause damage. 

One of the best example of that? That not so colossus of a man Gareth Barry...He was quick in small spaces, could win the ball back but critically was brilliant at moving it quickly to the likes of Ashley Young who then got it in space to attack the full back. We need more of that.

Busquets was a key player in that Barca side because he did all the grunt work to allow Xavi and Iniesta to dominate, Chelsea have Kovacic and Kante, Man U fans mostly think they've struggled because Fred and McTominay haven't been good enough in front of the back 4.

Also it's you and John that decided I mean a brute who can barely kick a ball when I've said a number of times now i want a Vieira style player who can fight his corner against teams like Burnley but also has the game to be a part in us playing good football. I also think McGinn and Luiz (and probably Sanson as well) will be better with someone like that behind them and it would be great to have that player in there with Ramsey and Chuk. Berge and Locatelli are the 2 I've mentioned as, in my opinion, gettable and good enough. I like Koopmeiners as well but I think he might have Champions League offers.

Calling a player a “big nasty bugger” doesn’t exactly conjure anything other than what’s on the tin. Viera style players come around once in a blue moon.

Agree TV
as for Viera I just saw a world class footballer a nasty bugger was Vinnie Jones, Joey Barton, 
Graham Souness, Billy Bremner were a nasty buggers from yesteryear but you can’t play like that anymore you’ll be sent off within 10 minutes

Keane Was probably the closest to being a real nasty bugger and a very good footballer but then he was also a world-class footballer as well
 people that talk about a Keane type or a Viara type actually mean mean Keane and Vera they aren’t about it’s a simple as that
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: brontebilly on May 25, 2021, 08:57:08 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Toronto Villa on May 25, 2021, 07:49:55 PM
Who is Chelsea’s nasty bugger who can mix it? You could argue they have Kante who is just a rich man’s version of Nakamba. Who was Barcelona’s nasty bugger in midfield when they had Iniesta and Xavi? Man U don’t have one now really. 

What we need is better footballers who can keep control of the ball and win it back quickly and fairly. I wouldn’t call John McGinn a nasty bugger (stupid that he has the most bookings) but he chases down the play better than anyone else we have. What we have to better at is keeping the ball, chasing it down and winning it when we don’t have it and moving it quickly to the players who can cause damage. 

One of the best example of that? That not so colossus of a man Gareth Barry...He was quick in small spaces, could win the ball back but critically was brilliant at moving it quickly to the likes of Ashley Young who then got it in space to attack the full back. We need more of that.

Barry to Young....cross to the backpost....simple but every effective. McGinn has a lot of attributes but getting it out of his feet quickly to release someone down the left isn't one of them
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Allan C on May 25, 2021, 09:03:32 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Toronto Villa on May 25, 2021, 08:34:13 PM
Quote from: paul_e on May 25, 2021, 08:31:42 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on May 25, 2021, 07:49:55 PM
Who is Chelsea’s nasty bugger who can mix it? You could argue they have Kante who is just a rich man’s version of Nakamba. Who was Barcelona’s nasty bugger in midfield when they had Iniesta and Xavi? Man U don’t have one now really. 

What we need is better footballers who can keep control of the ball and win it back quickly and fairly. I wouldn’t call John McGinn a nasty bugger (stupid that he has the most bookings) but he chases down the play better than anyone else we have. What we have to better at is keeping the ball, chasing it down and winning it when we don’t have it and moving it quickly to the players who can cause damage. 

One of the best example of that? That not so colossus of a man Gareth Barry...He was quick in small spaces, could win the ball back but critically was brilliant at moving it quickly to the likes of Ashley Young who then got it in space to attack the full back. We need more of that.

Busquets was a key player in that Barca side because he did all the grunt work to allow Xavi and Iniesta to dominate, Chelsea have Kovacic and Kante, Man U fans mostly think they've struggled because Fred and McTominay haven't been good enough in front of the back 4.

Also it's you and John that decided I mean a brute who can barely kick a ball when I've said a number of times now i want a Vieira style player who can fight his corner against teams like Burnley but also has the game to be a part in us playing good football. I also think McGinn and Luiz (and probably Sanson as well) will be better with someone like that behind them and it would be great to have that player in there with Ramsey and Chuk. Berge and Locatelli are the 2 I've mentioned as, in my opinion, gettable and good enough. I like Koopmeiners as well but I think he might have Champions League offers.

Calling a player a “big nasty bugger” doesn’t exactly conjure anything other than what’s on the tin. Viera style players come around once in a blue moon.
I agree with you TV  We need three players of similar proven quality to Grealish that’ll go straight into the first team and an upgrade on the deeper squad (hopefully from the youth team). 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on May 25, 2021, 09:07:14 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Toronto Villa on May 25, 2021, 08:55:46 PM
Quote from: paul_e on May 25, 2021, 08:51:11 PM
As far as I'm concerned it just means someone tall and strong who doesn't mind the rough stuff, again it's you that assumed I meant someone who can barely kick a ball.

Where have I assume that? I used the term you used to describe a player. I’m making the point a player who wins the ball doesn’t need to be a “nasty bugger”. 

Who said anything about winning the ball back though? Again we need a player who won't let teams like Burnley intimidate us and who can compete in the air in front of the defence and stepping in to help at corners and on crosses. I like the midfielders we have but they're all on the smaller side and it's a weakness in the squad.

John if you don't think Vieira was physically dominant and bullied teams then I don't think you watched him enough yes he was world class though. How about i use Ian Taylor as an example instead, he was fantastic for us because as well as a good footballer he also didn't take any shit and it made us much tougher.

At the moment Luiz is trying to be that player but because he isn't strong enough he ends up committing too many fouls.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: brontebilly on May 25, 2021, 09:15:27 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Allan C on May 25, 2021, 09:03:32 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on May 25, 2021, 08:34:13 PM
Quote from: paul_e on May 25, 2021, 08:31:42 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on May 25, 2021, 07:49:55 PM
Who is Chelsea’s nasty bugger who can mix it? You could argue they have Kante who is just a rich man’s version of Nakamba. Who was Barcelona’s nasty bugger in midfield when they had Iniesta and Xavi? Man U don’t have one now really. 

What we need is better footballers who can keep control of the ball and win it back quickly and fairly. I wouldn’t call John McGinn a nasty bugger (stupid that he has the most bookings) but he chases down the play better than anyone else we have. What we have to better at is keeping the ball, chasing it down and winning it when we don’t have it and moving it quickly to the players who can cause damage. 

One of the best example of that? That not so colossus of a man Gareth Barry...He was quick in small spaces, could win the ball back but critically was brilliant at moving it quickly to the likes of Ashley Young who then got it in space to attack the full back. We need more of that.

Busquets was a key player in that Barca side because he did all the grunt work to allow Xavi and Iniesta to dominate, Chelsea have Kovacic and Kante, Man U fans mostly think they've struggled because Fred and McTominay haven't been good enough in front of the back 4.

Also it's you and John that decided I mean a brute who can barely kick a ball when I've said a number of times now i want a Vieira style player who can fight his corner against teams like Burnley but also has the game to be a part in us playing good football. I also think McGinn and Luiz (and probably Sanson as well) will be better with someone like that behind them and it would be great to have that player in there with Ramsey and Chuk. Berge and Locatelli are the 2 I've mentioned as, in my opinion, gettable and good enough. I like Koopmeiners as well but I think he might have Champions League offers.

Calling a player a “big nasty bugger” doesn’t exactly conjure anything other than what’s on the tin. Viera style players come around once in a blue moon.
I agree with you TV  We need three players of similar proven quality to Grealish that’ll go straight into the first team and an upgrade on the deeper squad (hopefully from the youth team).

If we had three other players of Grealish's quality, it's winning the league title we would be aiming for!

We need a presence in midfield, Luiz had a disappointing season really. More experience and bite needed in there. Push McGinn further up nearer Grealish and Watkins. Teams will do well to try playing through us then. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: LukeJames on May 25, 2021, 09:23:25 PM
			

			

				Its noticeable that Chrisene and Raikhy are big lads. When they broaden out in the next couple of years they will become units. Raikhy especially seems to already have a superb level of passing on him. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Lastfootstamper on May 25, 2021, 09:25:43 PM
			

			

				Something else has occurred to me that the current coaching team deserve credit for. Somebody in the transfer thread said about getting in a dead ball specialist, and that suddenly tangentially made me think, hang on, dunno when this happened, but we're not relentlessly shit at throw-ins anymore!
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Toronto Villa on May 25, 2021, 09:37:53 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: paul_e on May 25, 2021, 09:07:14 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on May 25, 2021, 08:55:46 PM
Quote from: paul_e on May 25, 2021, 08:51:11 PM
As far as I'm concerned it just means someone tall and strong who doesn't mind the rough stuff, again it's you that assumed I meant someone who can barely kick a ball.

Where have I assume that? I used the term you used to describe a player. I’m making the point a player who wins the ball doesn’t need to be a “nasty bugger”. 

Who said anything about winning the ball back though? Again we need a player who won't let teams like Burnley intimidate us and who can compete in the air in front of the defence and stepping in to help at corners and on crosses. I like the midfielders we have but they're all on the smaller side and it's a weakness in the squad.

John if you don't think Vieira was physically dominant and bullied teams then I don't think you watched him enough yes he was world class though. How about i use Ian Taylor as an example instead, he was fantastic for us because as well as a good footballer he also didn't take any shit and it made us much tougher.

At the moment Luiz is trying to be that player but because he isn't strong enough he ends up committing too many fouls.

Burnley didn’t intimidate us. We should have been 5 goals clear at HT at their place because we outplayed them all over the park. We played shit in the second half despite taking the lead again. I want our players to be better than worrying about the likes of Burnley on a cold Tuesday night. 

Keep the ball, pass it quickly, move into open spaces so that their players don’t get near ours. You don’t have to be physical to do that. You just need to be smarter and better than them.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ian. on May 25, 2021, 09:43:07 PM
			

			

				I thought Burnley did bully us second half, as they did with quite a few teams this season. Although I don't think that's down to the centre midfield but they do like to launch it to those two big brutes up front.

Next season we must learn to score more when we are on top, quite a few times we have not been clinical enough, both Burnley games come to mind. Also Leeds at home in the first half. West Ham as well we absolutely dominated except for two sucker punches in both halves. They seemed to go on a very run after that result too.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Toronto Villa on May 25, 2021, 09:50:19 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Ian. on May 25, 2021, 09:43:07 PM
I thought Burnley did bully us second half, as they did with quite a few teams this season. Although I don't think that's down to the centre midfield but they do like to launch it to those two big brutes up front.

Next season we must learn to score more when we are on top, quite a few times we have not been clinical enough, both Burnley games come to mind. Also Leeds at home in the first half. West Ham as well we absolutely dominated except for two sucker punches in both halves. They seemed to go on a very run after that result too.

With Leeds at home we were just massively naive. They tactically beat us by overloading Cash’s side and in the second half we just shit the bed. Mind you Jack should have scored to make it 1-0 before they did. And away despite all their running we deserved to win that game. Good opening goal and we battled them well in the middle. Back to Burnley they tactically adjusted and kept running at us, pushing us back deeper and deeper along with launching long balls. I don’t put that down to intimidation as much as they did well what they have always done well and we couldn’t counter that tactical gameplan. Has we taken our chances they wouldn’t have had a path back into the game.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ian. on May 25, 2021, 09:53:30 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Toronto Villa on May 25, 2021, 09:50:19 PM
Quote from: Ian. on May 25, 2021, 09:43:07 PM
I thought Burnley did bully us second half, as they did with quite a few teams this season. Although I don't think that's down to the centre midfield but they do like to launch it to those two big brutes up front.

Next season we must learn to score more when we are on top, quite a few times we have not been clinical enough, both Burnley games come to mind. Also Leeds at home in the first half. West Ham as well we absolutely dominated except for two sucker punches in both halves. They seemed to go on a very run after that result too.

Back to Burnley they tactically adjusted and kept run at us and launching long balls. I don’t put that down to intimidation as much as they did well what they have always done well and we couldn’t counter that tactical gameplan. Has we taken our chances they wouldn’t have had a path back into the game.

I agree, I mean it was centre halves being bullied by the long balls into their forwards so it bypassed midfield and we should have scored a bucket load in both games. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on May 25, 2021, 10:15:13 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Ian. on May 25, 2021, 09:53:30 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on May 25, 2021, 09:50:19 PM
Quote from: Ian. on May 25, 2021, 09:43:07 PM
I thought Burnley did bully us second half, as they did with quite a few teams this season. Although I don't think that's down to the centre midfield but they do like to launch it to those two big brutes up front.

Next season we must learn to score more when we are on top, quite a few times we have not been clinical enough, both Burnley games come to mind. Also Leeds at home in the first half. West Ham as well we absolutely dominated except for two sucker punches in both halves. They seemed to go on a very run after that result too.

Back to Burnley they tactically adjusted and kept run at us and launching long balls. I don’t put that down to intimidation as much as they did well what they have always done well and we couldn’t counter that tactical gameplan. Has we taken our chances they wouldn’t have had a path back into the game.

I agree, I mean it was centre halves being bullied by the long balls into their forwards so it bypassed midfield and we should have scored a bucket load in both games. 

Yes, so a big midfielder to step back in and win those headers would've helped. West Ham it was all about Rice and Soucek just being more physical and creating space for Lingard, which they've suckered a lot of teams with, again someone to put them on the backfoot would help.

I get what TV is saying about being smarter but you have to earn the right to play smart football, if we do that bit then most of our attacking players and midfielders are plenty good enough to rip into teams as we've seen a number of times this year.

For me the 2 big problems are that we can get pegged back by teams that play good football (Man City for example) and we can be harried into making mistakes. I think 1 good signing in midfield goes a long way to addressing both of those and then adding some pace and quality to compete on the right (and give us another out ball) finishes the job of addressing the weaknesses in our 'core' group. Once we have both of those filled we can look at adding depth elsewhere.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Goldenballs on May 25, 2021, 10:32:40 PM
			

			

				I read on twitter that only one club from the top 92 has risen more places in the league ladder than us since Smith took over. No idea if it's true though. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Toronto Villa on May 25, 2021, 11:33:52 PM
			

			

				We earned the right to be better defensively by buying a top keeper, an upgrade at RB and improving the ability of Konsa, Mings and Targett through coaching and their own dedication. We immediately improved up front by buying a striker who has almost everything. I expect we will see improvements in other areas too, on the wing and midfield, but the fastest way to gets there is just getting better now. 

Get in players who already do what we need them to do and we don’t need a defined enforcer. For me that’s a limited footballer. I would sooner we just got players who enjoy having the football and technically don’t give it away easily. The best way to overcome teams in or around us and certainly below us is by not allowing them to have the football. We won’t be able to be that to the very top teams but we have already shown we can more than compete. We have nothing at all to fear.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on May 25, 2021, 11:42:33 PM
			

			

				McGinn and Luiz can mix it at times I think.

Look at SJM just mugging Kovacic and nearly scoring late in the first half on Sunday.

When we had Barry and Petrov you certainly wouldn't say either were dirty players at all but both were very streetwise, knew when to put their foot in and give away fouls and also win fouls to break up play and slow games down. Also great at quickly sweeping the ball over to Young so he could get on a one v one against a full back.

Think that's something we need to get a bit better at, releasing Jack and hopefully a new wide player more quickly next season.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Toronto Villa on May 26, 2021, 12:00:12 AM
			

			

				Streetwise is a good way of putting it Soccer. One of things I despise about Man City is one of the things that makes them successful. It’s what they do when they don’t have possession. It’s a tactic Pep employed as a player, used at Barcelona and Bayern. When the opponent has the ball if you cannot get it a little foul disrupts the opponents flow. They rarely are enough to get you bookings and the responsibilities are shared across all 10 outfield players. But not only do they know how to keep the ball and are deadly with it, but when they don’t have it they have the cunning to stop you from playing. Theirs success is a combination of a lot of things done very well. Watch them do it on Saturday vs Chelsea. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on May 26, 2021, 12:18:46 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Toronto Villa on May 26, 2021, 12:00:12 AM
Streetwise is a good way of putting it Soccer. One of things I despise about Man City is one of the things that makes them successful. It’s what they do when they don’t have possession. It’s a tactic Pep employed as a player, used at Barcelona and Bayern. When the opponent has the ball if you cannot get it a little foul disrupts the opponents flow. They rarely are enough to get you bookings and the responsibilities are shared across all 10 outfield players. But not only do they know how to keep the ball and are deadly with it, but when they don’t have it they have the cunning to stop you from playing. Theirs success is a combination of a lot of things done very well. Watch them do it on Saturday vs Chelsea. 

Yep Luiz is actually reasonably decent at it aswell (certainly the best in our team of knowing when to trip a player on halfway line when move is just developing) so you can tell he's spent time on training pitch with Guardiola at some point.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on May 26, 2021, 12:52:42 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Toronto Villa on May 25, 2021, 11:33:52 PM
We earned the right to be better defensively by buying a top keeper, an upgrade at RB and improving the ability of Konsa, Mings and Targett through coaching and their own dedication. We immediately improved up front by buying a striker who has almost everything. I expect we will see improvements in other areas too, on the wing and midfield, but the fastest way to gets there is just getting better now. 

Get in players who already do what we need them to do and we don’t need a defined enforcer. For me that’s a limited footballer. I would sooner we just got players who enjoy having the football and technically don’t give it away easily. The best way to overcome teams in or around us and certainly below us is by not allowing them to have the football. We won’t be able to be that to the very top teams but we have already shown we can more than compete. We have nothing at all to fear.

and still you insist on a player with strength being automatically a poor player, you're clearly ignoring the players I named as options to do the job I want. How about watching players like Berge, Locatelli and Koopmeiners before you carry on. You use the term enforcer and you're pretty clearly imagining a useless lump who makes a tackle and then plays a a 5m pass and sees it as job done, if that was all I was after then Nakamba has shown he can do the job. I'm talking about £40-50m players who probably belong in the champions league.

Its the same job Rodri does for Man City which has allowed Gundogan to be one of the best midfielders in the league, we need that sort of player so our other midfielders can be freed up to dictate games in the same way. That's what I mean by earning the right to play our way because we don't have that softness through midfield that has appeared in our games too many times this year.

That our keeper and defence have been exceptional (as a unit) doesn't change the fact that sometimes teams found it too easy to cut through us unless we defended deep and let them play in front of us. We were 7th worst in the league for shots conceded per game and a big part of that was because our defence was exposed on the counter too easily.

Being streetwise/shit-housing in midfield with 'smart' fouls is part of it but there's so much more we can do than that.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Toronto Villa on May 26, 2021, 01:14:21 AM
			

			

				Paul where have said an enforcer is a poor player? That’s twice now you’ve found a way to misinterpret what I’ve said. I said a defined enforcer is a limited footballer. Which is true. In much the same way a defined winger has limitations or a player who is exclusively right footed being generally limited in the roles they can play well. What I absolutely will contest is the need for a “nasty bugger”. It’s not 1975 anymore. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Baldy on May 26, 2021, 08:18:09 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Toronto Villa on May 26, 2021, 12:00:12 AM
Streetwise is a good way of putting it Soccer. One of things I despise about Man City is one of the things that makes them successful. It’s what they do when they don’t have possession. It’s a tactic Pep employed as a player, used at Barcelona and Bayern. When the opponent has the ball if you cannot get it a little foul disrupts the opponents flow. They rarely are enough to get you bookings and the responsibilities are shared across all 10 outfield players. But not only do they know how to keep the ball and are deadly with it, but when they don’t have it they have the cunning to stop you from playing. Theirs success is a combination of a lot of things done very well. Watch them do it on Saturday vs Chelsea.

Mr TV, I have often thought the same. Man City are masters at it. The average height of their midfield/forwards is 4 foot 6 but their turnover rate is massive. 

Also, apart from the odd exception, they are very smart at 'playing' the referee. Show respect, probably no bad language and just enough 'in the ear' to avoid a booking. Referees are human afterall. Wouldn't surprise me if Man City have a dossier on every ref in the league and how best  to 'play' them.

Super Mr McGinn needs to learn from this or attend an Anger Management Course. I am convinced some of his bookings are because of his attitude, snarl, stare and curses towards the referee. If McGinn gives anyone in the world an angry look, they would get their card out!! He loses 20% of his effectiveness after a booking and Villa can't afford that.

Luiz hasn't mastered the art of a little niggle yet. A lot of his bookings are for 'soft' fouls (often around our penalty area) but not 'soft' enough. He doesn't need to stop an an opponent, just gently put him off his stride. 

Deano should arrange for John Terry to give 'streetwise' lessons at Villa Park.  :)
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Allan C on May 26, 2021, 08:45:39 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: brontebilly on May 25, 2021, 09:15:27 PM
Quote from: Allan C on May 25, 2021, 09:03:32 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on May 25, 2021, 08:34:13 PM
Quote from: paul_e on May 25, 2021, 08:31:42 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on May 25, 2021, 07:49:55 PM
Who is Chelsea’s nasty bugger who can mix it? You could argue they have Kante who is just a rich man’s version of Nakamba. Who was Barcelona’s nasty bugger in midfield when they had Iniesta and Xavi? Man U don’t have one now really. 

What we need is better footballers who can keep control of the ball and win it back quickly and fairly. I wouldn’t call John McGinn a nasty bugger (stupid that he has the most bookings) but he chases down the play better than anyone else we have. What we have to better at is keeping the ball, chasing it down and winning it when we don’t have it and moving it quickly to the players who can cause damage. 

One of the best example of that? That not so colossus of a man Gareth Barry...He was quick in small spaces, could win the ball back but critically was brilliant at moving it quickly to the likes of Ashley Young who then got it in space to attack the full back. We need more of that.

Busquets was a key player in that Barca side because he did all the grunt work to allow Xavi and Iniesta to dominate, Chelsea have Kovacic and Kante, Man U fans mostly think they've struggled because Fred and McTominay haven't been good enough in front of the back 4.

Also it's you and John that decided I mean a brute who can barely kick a ball when I've said a number of times now i want a Vieira style player who can fight his corner against teams like Burnley but also has the game to be a part in us playing good football. I also think McGinn and Luiz (and probably Sanson as well) will be better with someone like that behind them and it would be great to have that player in there with Ramsey and Chuk. Berge and Locatelli are the 2 I've mentioned as, in my opinion, gettable and good enough. I like Koopmeiners as well but I think he might have Champions League offers.

Calling a player a “big nasty bugger” doesn’t exactly conjure anything other than what’s on the tin. Viera style players come around once in a blue moon.
I agree with you TV  We need three players of similar proven quality to Grealish that’ll go straight into the first team and an upgrade on the deeper squad (hopefully from the youth team).

If we had three other players of Grealish's quality, it's winning the league title we would be aiming for!

We need a presence in midfield, Luiz had a disappointing season really. More experience and bite needed in there. Push McGinn further up nearer Grealish and Watkins. Teams will do well to try playing through us then.
Agree with that. Barkley should of been the start of the rebuild but it failed. Three players of that experience and quality to compliment Grealish will make us genuine contenders for top four IMO 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: dave.woodhall on May 26, 2021, 08:49:09 AM
			

			

				Manchester United under Ferguson were masters of intimidation by numbers. Irwin would have a couple of goes at the ref, then Ince, Hughes, Cantona and so on. None of them would carry on long enough to get booked but it added up to ninety minutes of non-stop pressure. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: cdbearsfan on May 26, 2021, 08:52:29 AM
			

			

				They would carry on long enough to get booked, but wouldn't get booked anyway because they're Man U. Wayne Rooney would be mouthing off at the referee for at least half an hour in any one game and never even get spoken to.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: dave shelley on May 26, 2021, 08:58:32 AM
			

			

				What sums up Manure and their attitude to referee's under Ferguson is the iconic (loosely termed) photograph of them surrounding referee Andy D'Urso en masse when he had the temerity to give/not give a decision that they didn't agree with.  I thought the blood vessels in Keane's neck would burst.  I genuinely believe that from that moment on, D'Urso's career went steadily down hill.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: LeeB on May 26, 2021, 09:00:50 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: dave.woodhall on May 26, 2021, 08:49:09 AM
Manchester United under Ferguson were masters of intimidation by numbers. Irwin would have a couple of goes at the ref, then Ince, Hughes, Cantona and so on. None of them would carry on long enough to get booked but it added up to ninety minutes of non-stop pressure. 

Strachan was talking about this on the radio last week, Ferguson used to say "If they've got five around the referee, I want six"
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on May 26, 2021, 09:38:44 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Baldy on May 26, 2021, 08:18:09 AM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on May 26, 2021, 12:00:12 AM
Streetwise is a good way of putting it Soccer. One of things I despise about Man City is one of the things that makes them successful. It’s what they do when they don’t have possession. It’s a tactic Pep employed as a player, used at Barcelona and Bayern. When the opponent has the ball if you cannot get it a little foul disrupts the opponents flow. They rarely are enough to get you bookings and the responsibilities are shared across all 10 outfield players. But not only do they know how to keep the ball and are deadly with it, but when they don’t have it they have the cunning to stop you from playing. Theirs success is a combination of a lot of things done very well. Watch them do it on Saturday vs Chelsea.

Mr TV, I have often thought the same. Man City are masters at it. The average height of their midfield/forwards is 4 foot 6 but their turnover rate is massive. 

Also, apart from the odd exception, they are very smart at 'playing' the referee. Show respect, probably no bad language and just enough 'in the ear' to avoid a booking. Referees are human afterall. Wouldn't surprise me if Man City have a dossier on every ref in the league and how best  to 'play' them.

Super Mr McGinn needs to learn from this or attend an Anger Management Course. I am convinced some of his bookings are because of his attitude, snarl, stare and curses towards the referee. If McGinn gives anyone in the world an angry look, they would get their card out!! He loses 20% of his effectiveness after a booking and Villa can't afford that.

Luiz hasn't mastered the art of a little niggle yet. A lot of his bookings are for 'soft' fouls (often around our penalty area) but not 'soft' enough. He doesn't need to stop an an opponent, just gently put him off his stride. 

Deano should arrange for John Terry to give 'streetwise' lessons at Villa Park.  :)

Rodri is 6'3 and fantastic in the air, he's a big part of how they pin teams into the final third.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: chrisw1 on May 26, 2021, 10:03:45 AM
			

			

				Off at a tangent but listening to an Athletic podcast recently the corrospondent reckons Wolves owners take note of social media and forums etc.  He felt that the small but very vocal minority of fans calling for Nuno out may have played a part.  He wondered if the owners may have felt they had read it wrong when they saw the outpouring of love for Nuno at the last game.

It sounds crazy that it could be the case that a few know nothing morons could have an influence on the future of a multi million pound business.  I'm sure there's far more to it than this, but even so I guess it's be careful what you wish for.

Hopefully Mendes is losing interest, they'll now fall down the plug hole where they belong and we'll never have to listen to their mind the gap nonsence again.  And if they did play a part, cheers to the mad few idiots calling for his head. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: dave.woodhall on May 26, 2021, 10:06:32 AM
			

			

				Any business owner taking notice of social media deserves all they get.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Baldy on May 26, 2021, 10:10:22 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: paul_e on May 26, 2021, 09:38:44 AM
Quote from: Baldy on May 26, 2021, 08:18:09 AM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on May 26, 2021, 12:00:12 AM
Streetwise is a good way of putting it Soccer. One of things I despise about Man City is one of the things that makes them successful. It’s what they do when they don’t have possession. It’s a tactic Pep employed as a player, used at Barcelona and Bayern. When the opponent has the ball if you cannot get it a little foul disrupts the opponents flow. They rarely are enough to get you bookings and the responsibilities are shared across all 10 outfield players. But not only do they know how to keep the ball and are deadly with it, but when they don’t have it they have the cunning to stop you from playing. Theirs success is a combination of a lot of things done very well. Watch them do it on Saturday vs Chelsea.

Mr TV, I have often thought the same. Man City are masters at it. The average height of their midfield/forwards is 4 foot 6 but their turnover rate is massive. 

Also, apart from the odd exception, they are very smart at 'playing' the referee. Show respect, probably no bad language and just enough 'in the ear' to avoid a booking. Referees are human afterall. Wouldn't surprise me if Man City have a dossier on every ref in the league and how best  to 'play' them.

Super Mr McGinn needs to learn from this or attend an Anger Management Course. I am convinced some of his bookings are because of his attitude, snarl, stare and curses towards the referee. If McGinn gives anyone in the world an angry look, they would get their card out!! He loses 20% of his effectiveness after a booking and Villa can't afford that.

Luiz hasn't mastered the art of a little niggle yet. A lot of his bookings are for 'soft' fouls (often around our penalty area) but not 'soft' enough. He doesn't need to stop an an opponent, just gently put him off his stride. 

Deano should arrange for John Terry to give 'streetwise' lessons at Villa Park.  :)

Rodri is 6'3 and fantastic in the air, he's a big part of how they pin teams into the final third.

Point taken. He is a fairly recent addition. Often their forward/midfield press included Sterling, Aguero. Da Dilva, Gundohan, Foden, Jesus etc. No wonder they play the ball along the ground.  :)
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Baldy on May 26, 2021, 10:14:26 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: chrisw1 on May 26, 2021, 10:03:45 AM
Off at a tangent but listening to an Athletic podcast recently the corrospondent reckons Wolves owners take note of social media and forums etc.  He felt that the small but very vocal minority of fans calling for Nuno out may have played a part.  He wondered if the owners may have felt they had read it wrong when they saw the outpouring of love for Nuno at the last game.

It sounds crazy that it could be the case that a few know nothing morons could have an influence on the future of a multi million pound business.  I'm sure there's far more to it than this, but even so I guess it's be careful what you wish for.

Hopefully Mendes is losing interest, they'll now fall down the plug hole where they belong and we'll never have to listen to their mind the gap nonsence again.  And if they did play a part, cheers to the mad few idiots calling for his head.

Footy-Ville should be on the Villa payroll.  :)
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: eamonn on May 26, 2021, 10:17:22 AM
			

			

				I think Nuno wanted to leave as much as Wolves were indifferent to him staying. He probably rightly concluded that he had taken them as far as he could. He's also been away from his family for over a year. If work is stagnating and you're a wealthy man anyway, some things are more important.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: chrisw1 on May 26, 2021, 10:21:51 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: eamonn on May 26, 2021, 10:17:22 AM
I think Nuno wanted to leave as much as Wolves were indifferent to him staying. He probably rightly concluded that he had taken them as far as he could. He's also been away from his family for over a year. If work is stagnating and you're a wealthy man anyway, some things are more important.
Possibly, but wanting him out was madness.  Maybe with a summer off Nuno would have come back re-energised and ready to go again.  As it is they've got to pay him off and all of his (very highly regarded) backroom staff.  I may be wrong but feel they've dropped a bollock here when a bit of love and patience may have served them better.

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on May 26, 2021, 10:32:12 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Baldy on May 26, 2021, 10:10:22 AM
Point taken. He is a fairly recent addition. Often their forward/midfield press included Sterling, Aguero. Da Dilva, Gundohan, Foden, Jesus etc. No wonder they play the ball along the ground.  :)

True but Guardiola in particular has always had a proper defensive midfielder in his team, there's even stories on the internet of him wanting to try Neuer in Midfield when he was at Bayern.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on May 26, 2021, 10:59:42 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: paul_e on May 26, 2021, 10:32:12 AM
Quote from: Baldy on May 26, 2021, 10:10:22 AM
Point taken. He is a fairly recent addition. Often their forward/midfield press included Sterling, Aguero. Da Dilva, Gundohan, Foden, Jesus etc. No wonder they play the ball along the ground.  :)

True but Guardiola in particular has always had a proper defensive midfielder in his team, there's even stories on the internet of him wanting to try Neuer in Midfield when he was at Bayern.
He could sort of get away with it at Barca because they were so dominant. But every team needs an enforcer type, unless of course you are lucky to have a Bremner Mortimer Cowans Midfield- Bremner was the most defensively minded but Cowans and Mortimer were pretty handy at the defensive stuff.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: LeeB on May 26, 2021, 11:07:35 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: ChicagoLion on May 26, 2021, 10:59:42 AM
Quote from: paul_e on May 26, 2021, 10:32:12 AM
Quote from: Baldy on May 26, 2021, 10:10:22 AM
Point taken. He is a fairly recent addition. Often their forward/midfield press included Sterling, Aguero. Da Dilva, Gundohan, Foden, Jesus etc. No wonder they play the ball along the ground.  :)

True but Guardiola in particular has always had a proper defensive midfielder in his team, there's even stories on the internet of him wanting to try Neuer in Midfield when he was at Bayern.
He could sort of get away with it at Barca because they were so dominant. But every team needs an enforcer type, unless of course you are lucky to have a Bremner Mortimer Cowans Midfield- Bremner was the most defensively minded but Cowans and Mortimer were pretty handy at the defensive stuff.

The full video of us drawing 2-2 in the FA Cup at Blackburn in 1990 is on YouTube, I was there and I watched a bit of it last week. One of the Blackburn players broke on the counter and Sid executed the most brilliantly cynical, two footed scissor tackle on the lad from behind. He certainly could mix it.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Monty on May 26, 2021, 11:12:38 AM
			

			

				Busquets is a proper c**t in midfield as well.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: OCD on May 26, 2021, 11:27:37 AM
			

			

				A really top quality protector in front of the defence with Nakamba as back-up would be a massive piece of the jigsaw and probably the last piece defensively. Offensively, we need a 10 and a top quality right sided midfielder. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: martyn ellis on May 26, 2021, 12:14:44 PM
			

			

				I don't know how much it's due to the influence of Dean Smith alone, but he and the team around him seem to have the knack of improving players who are either already at the club or have been brought in with a very underwhelming response from the fans. Which of the following have not improved their performances? I would include virtually the whole of the defence in simply getting better as the season wore on, starting with Matt Targett who received a very muted welcome when he came and even a shrug of the shoulders from Southampton fans I know who were not particularly bothered he was going. What a season he has had! Konsa has steadily improved to the extent that even the BBC sports pages were somewhat disappointed he didn't make the provisional international squad. Hause, after a terrible first couple of games as a rejected Wolves player, has become a reliable option to come in (Magnificent against Chelsea). Mings - well we all know about Tyrone; brilliant season. Compare this with his status at Bournemouth. Cash also steadily improving apart from the occasional rashness. Midfield, Nakamba has just been getting better and better and could turn into our own Kante. McGinn has been nurtured through his bad injury and is now back to his best, while El Ghazi and Trez have also chipped in and made the transformation from Championship to Premier. 
My view is that, with the clearly improved coaching they are getting through O'Kelly, Shakespeare, Terry with Smith at the helm, they could be being coached by the dream team; and with the youth team doing so well under Verity and Bramley and others connected to them, we'll have some good ones coming through, some of whom have already made it. The youth team looked so well-coached the other night I could hardly believe they are 17 years old. Exciting times for Villa with room for a few new faces but a lot of talent already within the club ready for further development.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: dave.woodhall on May 26, 2021, 12:24:23 PM
			

			

				I can well imagine that in a few years time, when Deano gets bored with winning everything, Mark Delaney will become manager. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Percy McCarthy on May 26, 2021, 12:35:35 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: ChicagoLion on May 16, 2021, 07:40:43 PM
Quote from: Ads on May 16, 2021, 07:38:47 PM
Pre-Covid we lost 0 points from winning positions and post Covid we've lost 19.
so it’s still down to Covid?

When did he learn crap game management?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: OCD on May 26, 2021, 12:36:36 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: dave.woodhall on May 26, 2021, 12:24:23 PM
I can well imagine that in a few years time, when Deano gets bored with winning everything, Mark Delaney will become manager. 

John Terry may be ahead of him in the queue. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Percy McCarthy on May 26, 2021, 12:38:16 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: ChicagoLion on May 16, 2021, 08:50:43 PM
Quote from: RamboandBruno on May 16, 2021, 08:43:03 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on May 16, 2021, 08:15:52 PM
Quote from: Ads on May 16, 2021, 08:00:18 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on May 16, 2021, 07:40:43 PM
Quote from: Ads on May 16, 2021, 07:38:47 PM
Pre-Covid we lost 0 points from winning positions and post Covid we've lost 19.
so it’s still down to Covid?

Think that statistic demonstrates it was a significant event in the season. There's been other factors too, there is no single cause for the up and down nature of the season. But 9 of our players contracting a disease isn't too handy.
I don’t think any one can deny it had an impact.
I just don’t think it can continue to excuse such poor returns from winning positions over 2 seasons.
He never seems to make a proactive decision, at best it’s reactive at worst passive and indecisive.

He never seems to make a proactive decision apart from the times he has and we’ve won games, or again are the numerous games we’ve won only down to the players and not Smith, in which case he can’t win with you and the same posters on here who wanted him gone last season.

There is nothing surer than Smith will get the sack at some point, it’s the nature of the beast of the last 40 odd years, unless your Alex Ferguson, or we really progress quickly and he moves on from us. However, despite the disappointments of 2021, he has done a good job and progressed us. He’s suffered this year from losing his biggest big game player for 1/3 of the season and one of his others being a gamble that has paid off. Let’s see who we get in, who we let go and how we do next season. Talk of getting rid now, strikes me as the kind of over privileged stuff, ‘we’re Aston Villa don’t you know who we are’. we’ve heard this kind of stuff from some Wolves fans moaning about Nuno.
do You need  to see the stats regarding losing points from winning positions?

Do you? Ads posted them and you ignored the half that didn’t fit your argument.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: cdbearsfan on May 26, 2021, 12:41:37 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: OCD on May 26, 2021, 12:36:36 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on May 26, 2021, 12:24:23 PM
I can well imagine that in a few years time, when Deano gets bored with winning everything, Mark Delaney will become manager. 

John Terry may be ahead of him in the queue.

In the event that we are mega successful, I expect Terry would have been enticed away long before Smith gets bored. He may even go somewhere this summer.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: TonyD on May 26, 2021, 12:48:18 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: OCD on May 26, 2021, 11:27:37 AM
A really top quality protector in front of the defence with Nakamba as back-up would be a massive piece of the jigsaw and probably the last piece defensively. Offensively, we need a 10 and a top quality right sided midfielder. 
I’ve asked on here before but who is currently considered the world’s best midfield enforcer?   
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: dave.woodhall on May 26, 2021, 12:52:49 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: OCD on May 26, 2021, 12:36:36 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on May 26, 2021, 12:24:23 PM
I can well imagine that in a few years time, when Deano gets bored with winning everything, Mark Delaney will become manager. 

John Terry may be ahead of him in the queue. 

I think, with no evidence whatsoever, that Terry will be a better number two than boss.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: West Derby Villan on May 26, 2021, 12:58:10 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: martyn ellis on May 26, 2021, 12:14:44 PM
I don't know how much it's due to the influence of Dean Smith alone, but he and the team around him seem to have the knack of improving players who are either already at the club or have been brought in with a very underwhelming response from the fans. Which of the following have not improved their performances? I would include virtually the whole of the defence in simply getting better as the season wore on, starting with Matt Targett who received a very muted welcome when he came and even a shrug of the shoulders from Southampton fans I know who were not particularly bothered he was going. What a season he has had! Konsa has steadily improved to the extent that even the BBC sports pages were somewhat disappointed he didn't make the provisional international squad. Hause, after a terrible first couple of games as a rejected Wolves player, has become a reliable option to come in (Magnificent against Chelsea). Mings - well we all know about Tyrone; brilliant season. Compare this with his status at Bournemouth. Cash also steadily improving apart from the occasional rashness. Midfield, Nakamba has just been getting better and better and could turn into our own Kante. McGinn has been nurtured through his bad injury and is now back to his best, while El Ghazi and Trez have also chipped in and made the transformation from Championship to Premier. 
My view is that, with the clearly improved coaching they are getting through O'Kelly, Shakespeare, Terry with Smith at the helm, they could be being coached by the dream team; and with the youth team doing so well under Verity and Bramley and others connected to them, we'll have some good ones coming through, some of whom have already made it. The youth team looked so well-coached the other night I could hardly believe they are 17 years old. Exciting times for Villa with room for a few new faces but a lot of talent already within the club ready for further development.


Agree with all your points Martyn
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Baldy on May 26, 2021, 12:59:45 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: TonyD on May 26, 2021, 12:48:18 PM
Quote from: OCD on May 26, 2021, 11:27:37 AM
A really top quality protector in front of the defence with Nakamba as back-up would be a massive piece of the jigsaw and probably the last piece defensively. Offensively, we need a 10 and a top quality right sided midfielder. 
I’ve asked on here before but who is currently considered the world’s best midfield enforcer? 

As per Google search today for current best DM:

8 – Wilfried Ndidi. ...
7 – Saúl Ñíguez. ...
6 – Frenkie de Jong. ...
5 – Fabinho. ...
4 – Casemiro. ...
3 – Leon Goretzka. ...
2 – N'Golo Kanté ...
1 – Joshua Kimmich.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on May 26, 2021, 01:22:26 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Baldy on May 26, 2021, 12:59:45 PM
Quote from: TonyD on May 26, 2021, 12:48:18 PM
Quote from: OCD on May 26, 2021, 11:27:37 AM
A really top quality protector in front of the defence with Nakamba as back-up would be a massive piece of the jigsaw and probably the last piece defensively. Offensively, we need a 10 and a top quality right sided midfielder. 
I’ve asked on here before but who is currently considered the world’s best midfield enforcer? 

As per Google search today for current best DM:

8 – Wilfried Ndidi. ...
7 – Saúl Ñíguez. ...
6 – Frenkie de Jong. ...
5 – Fabinho. ...
4 – Casemiro. ...
3 – Leon Goretzka. ...
2 – N'Golo Kanté ...
1 – Joshua Kimmich.

Looks about right, I'd have Rodri in there as well and last summer I'd have included Partay. There's a guy at Monaco that looks the bollocks as well.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: LeeB on May 26, 2021, 01:50:01 PM
			

			

				I know who you mean Paul, and I'm not going to attempt to spell it either.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: AllanW on May 26, 2021, 02:01:10 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: West Derby Villan on May 26, 2021, 12:58:10 PM
I don't know how much it's due to the influence of Dean Smith alone, but he and the team around him seem to have the knack of improving players who are either already at the club or have been brought in with a very underwhelming response from the fans.

[snip]

My view is that, with the clearly improved coaching they are getting through O'Kelly, Shakespeare, Terry with Smith at the helm, they could be being coached by the dream team; and with the youth team doing so well under Verity and Bramley and others connected to them, we'll have some good ones coming through, some of whom have already made it. The youth team looked so well-coached the other night I could hardly believe they are 17 years old. Exciting times for Villa with room for a few new faces but a lot of talent already within the club ready for further development.

I agree too. It's good to see this sort of understanding on this site rather than the screech of titty-babbies whenever a result goes against us or a performance is less than perfect. It's a complex process coaching and managing a PL team, not always a regular, smooth upward progression. 

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: chrisw1 on May 26, 2021, 02:08:18 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: AllanW on May 26, 2021, 02:01:10 PM
Quote from: West Derby Villan on May 26, 2021, 12:58:10 PM
I don't know how much it's due to the influence of Dean Smith alone, but he and the team around him seem to have the knack of improving players who are either already at the club or have been brought in with a very underwhelming response from the fans.

[snip]

My view is that, with the clearly improved coaching they are getting through O'Kelly, Shakespeare, Terry with Smith at the helm, they could be being coached by the dream team; and with the youth team doing so well under Verity and Bramley and others connected to them, we'll have some good ones coming through, some of whom have already made it. The youth team looked so well-coached the other night I could hardly believe they are 17 years old. Exciting times for Villa with room for a few new faces but a lot of talent already within the club ready for further development.

I agree too. It's good to see this sort of understanding on this site rather than the screech of titty-babbies whenever a result goes against us or a performance is less than perfect. It's a complex process coaching and managing a PL team, not always a regular, smooth upward progression. 

This rhetoric isn't helpful Allan.  Just because someone has a different view to you - most recently being dissapointed by a very extensive poor run - it's hardly a 'screech of titty-babies' as you so eloquently put it.  This wasn't an outcry after one bad result, it was people taking a measured view over a reasonable period of time.  I didn't call for Smith to be sacked but I thought it was perfectly reasonable to question his performace in the second half of the season.

This forum is a place for mostly reasonable discussion and debate.  If you can't handle that then maybe an echo chamber elsewhere would be more up your street?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Toronto Villa on May 26, 2021, 02:19:36 PM
			

			

				“Titty babbies”? Good grief. He deserved the criticism he got while Jack was out as we fell completely off the cliff. Having spent a lot of money the drop off should not have been as steep as it was. That our results markedly improved once Jack played a full game wasn’t a shock, but there was a prolonged stretch where we were really poor. Just look at the 2021 stats heading into the last week. 

Nobody who criticized him wanted him to fail or get sacked. But I can only speak for myself here that also wasn’t tied to Dean Smith emotionally as no one man is bigger than the club. We’ve had great managers and players across our history. And will again. All I give a shit about is the club, and I hope we continue to build and grow. If that’s with the current manager, then even better.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: LeeB on May 26, 2021, 02:31:52 PM
			

			

				If your upset by the tiity-babbies comment  you're probably proving the point.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: chrisw1 on May 26, 2021, 02:46:14 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: LeeB on May 26, 2021, 02:31:52 PM
If your upset by the tiity-babbies comment  you're probably proving the point.
What point is that Lee?  That anybody who is crital of the team is a screeching titty-baby and everybody who isn't has a deep understanding of complex process of coaching and managing a PL team?

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on May 26, 2021, 02:47:56 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: LeeB on May 26, 2021, 02:31:52 PM
If your upset by the tiity-babbies comment  you're probably proving the point.
It hardly helps the quality of debate. He complains about standard of posting then calls every one that disagrees with him screeching Titty Babies.
I am going to throw my rattle out of the pram so there.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Toronto Villa on May 26, 2021, 02:52:10 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: LeeB on May 26, 2021, 02:31:52 PM
If your upset by the tiity-babbies comment  you're probably proving the point.

sorry that's utter nonsense. So we should go around calling people names when views differ from yours or others? It's no different to the happy clappers bollocks. Is Allan a Happy Clapper for saying everything was rosy as we posted relegation form for 4 months? No, he saw things more optimistically which is fine. It doesn't make the contrary observation wrong.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Allan C on May 26, 2021, 03:30:16 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Toronto Villa on May 26, 2021, 02:19:36 PM
“Titty babbies”? Good grief. He deserved the criticism he got while Jack was out as we fell completely off the cliff. Having spent a lot of money the drop off should not have been as steep as it was. That our results markedly improved once Jack played a full game wasn’t a shock, but there was a prolonged stretch where we were really poor. Just look at the 2021 stats heading into the last week. 

Nobody who criticized him wanted him to fail or get sacked. But I can only speak for myself here that also wasn’t tied to Dean Smith emotionally as no one man is bigger than the club. We’ve had great managers and players across our history. And will again. All I give a shit about is the club, and I hope we continue to build and grow. If that’s with the current manager, then even better.
Whilst I disagree with the “titty babies” comment, I think it’s fair to say that a few of the more voiceiferous posters were certainly leaning towards Smiths sacking with the language they used. My point has always been that the relatively poor performances coincided with factors such as Covid, injury to key players, lack of squad depth and fatigue. These factors cannot be overlooked when looking at what went wrong but some seem to place the blame solely at Smiths feet without considering them. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: cannock villa on May 26, 2021, 03:49:05 PM
			

			

				With no qualification i would say that being a football manager is similar to any other job. Some days no matter what you do things just don't right, and other days everything is just effortless and a breeze. I wouldn't imagine Deans approach and work ethic is any different whether he is on a 10 game winning streak or a 1 win in 10. If you've got the quality it will come through in the end (see Klopp this season)
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: LeeB on May 26, 2021, 04:22:06 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Toronto Villa on May 26, 2021, 02:52:10 PM
Quote from: LeeB on May 26, 2021, 02:31:52 PM
If your upset by the tiity-babbies comment  you're probably proving the point.

sorry that's utter nonsense. So we should go around calling people names when views differ from yours or others? It's no different to the happy clappers bollocks. Is Allan a Happy Clapper for saying everything was rosy as we posted relegation form for 4 months? No, he saw things more optimistically which is fine. It doesn't make the contrary observation wrong.

Quote from: ChicagoLion on May 26, 2021, 02:47:56 PM
Quote from: LeeB on May 26, 2021, 02:31:52 PM
If your upset by the tiity-babbies comment  you're probably proving the point.
It hardly helps the quality of debate. He complains about standard of posting then calls every one that disagrees with him screeching Titty Babies.
I am going to throw my rattle out of the pram so there.
Quote from: chrisw1 on May 26, 2021, 02:46:14 PM
Quote from: LeeB on May 26, 2021, 02:31:52 PM
If your upset by the tiity-babbies comment  you're probably proving the point.
What point is that Lee?  That anybody who is crital of the team is a screeching titty-baby and everybody who isn't has a deep understanding of complex process of coaching and managing a PL team?


The next three posts after mine.

I wouldn't say the label applied to any of you three for what it's worth, and I don't think the original post was, but it certainly applies to some. Personally, I avoided the site at times after a bad result because of it.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: West Derby Villan on May 26, 2021, 04:25:50 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: LeeB on May 26, 2021, 04:22:06 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on May 26, 2021, 02:52:10 PM
Quote from: LeeB on May 26, 2021, 02:31:52 PM
If your upset by the tiity-babbies comment  you're probably proving the point.

sorry that's utter nonsense. So we should go around calling people names when views differ from yours or others? It's no different to the happy clappers bollocks. Is Allan a Happy Clapper for saying everything was rosy as we posted relegation form for 4 months? No, he saw things more optimistically which is fine. It doesn't make the contrary observation wrong.

Quote from: ChicagoLion on May 26, 2021, 02:47:56 PM
Quote from: LeeB on May 26, 2021, 02:31:52 PM
If your upset by the tiity-babbies comment  you're probably proving the point.
It hardly helps the quality of debate. He complains about standard of posting then calls every one that disagrees with him screeching Titty Babies.
I am going to throw my rattle out of the pram so there.
Quote from: chrisw1 on May 26, 2021, 02:46:14 PM
Quote from: LeeB on May 26, 2021, 02:31:52 PM
If your upset by the tiity-babbies comment  you're probably proving the point.
What point is that Lee?  That anybody who is crital of the team is a screeching titty-baby and everybody who isn't has a deep understanding of complex process of coaching and managing a PL team?


The next three posts after mine.

I wouldn't say the label applied to any of you three for what it's worth, and I don't think the original post was, but it certainly applies to some. Personally, I avoided the site at times after a bad result because of it.

I certainly do the same
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Clampy on May 26, 2021, 04:34:26 PM
			

			

				It was definatley a bit toxic on here at times whenever we lost. Go back to when we lost to Stoke in the cup to see what I mean as an example. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Baldy on May 26, 2021, 05:07:58 PM
			

			

				I love titties. Big ones, small ones, round ones, square ones.  8)
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on May 26, 2021, 07:05:31 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: West Derby Villan on May 26, 2021, 04:25:50 PM
Quote from: LeeB on May 26, 2021, 04:22:06 PM
The next three posts after mine.

I wouldn't say the label applied to any of you three for what it's worth, and I don't think the original post was, but it certainly applies to some. Personally, I avoided the site at times after a bad result because of it.

I certainly do the same

Yep, post match threads, the Smith thread and a selection of individual player threads are pointless for a day or 2 after a defeat, I think the shitty nicknames are the bit that bothers me most the AEG one in particular is pathetic (and fits well with the description of them being shitty).
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: berneboy on May 26, 2021, 08:22:47 PM
			

			

				I watched the Christian Purslow video on the OS. Unless I missed something there was no mention of Dean Smith (nor Terry) in a near quarter of an hour interview. 

It made me feel uneasy for our Dean.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: pauliewalnuts on May 26, 2021, 08:32:30 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: berneboy on May 26, 2021, 08:22:47 PM
I watched the Christian Purslow video on the OS. Unless I missed something there was no mention of Dean Smith (nor Terry) in a near quarter of an hour interview. 

It made me feel uneasy for our Dean.

I didn't feel there was much pointing to that.

I was actually quite pleased to hear him say it was in a way disappointing given the way things had looked earlier in the season.

Suggests we're not going to just settle for 11th year in year out.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Toronto Villa on May 26, 2021, 08:36:11 PM
			

			

				Good. He’s the CEO. He needs to state the business with a lack of sentimentality. I’m sure he likes Dean Smith and staff but he cannot develop a close personal relationship. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Damo70 on May 26, 2021, 08:42:43 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: dave.woodhall on May 26, 2021, 12:52:49 PM
Quote from: OCD on May 26, 2021, 12:36:36 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on May 26, 2021, 12:24:23 PM
I can well imagine that in a few years time, when Deano gets bored with winning everything, Mark Delaney will become manager. 

John Terry may be ahead of him in the queue. 

I think, with no evidence whatsoever, that Terry will be a better number two than boss.

For all we know Terry himself may feel he would be a better number two rather than a manager.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: OCD on May 26, 2021, 08:51:42 PM
			

			

				Except he's stated an ambition of managing Chelsea one day. Which you could say would be a reason against us appointing him, if there was any chance he would leave at the first opportunity if we were doing well and they started looking his way. All very mute of course atm. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ian. on May 26, 2021, 09:14:48 PM
			

			

				That’s some very impressive use of the quote tool LeeB. I’d have bolloxed that right up.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: andyh on May 27, 2021, 10:33:11 AM
			

			

				I really enjoyed Purslow’s interview on Villa TV.  Very realistic and honest. Acknowledging a great start and a tail off being disappointing rather than telling us that everything is wonderful. The overall feeling that the the club is operating on an entirely different level to previously is brilliant. He oozes professionalism, as does the club now.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on May 27, 2021, 10:56:11 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: LeeB on May 26, 2021, 02:31:52 PM
If your upset by the tiity-babbies comment  you're probably proving the point.

Quote
Personally, I avoided the site at times after a bad result because of it.

Loooooooooooooooooool!
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: LeeB on May 27, 2021, 12:08:06 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on May 27, 2021, 10:56:11 AM
Quote from: LeeB on May 26, 2021, 02:31:52 PM
If your upset by the tiity-babbies comment  you're probably proving the point.

Quote
Personally, I avoided the site at times after a bad result because of it.

Loooooooooooooooooool!

Ha! 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on May 27, 2021, 12:18:16 PM
			

			

				Love ya mate!
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: CT on May 27, 2021, 04:06:38 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: andyh on May 27, 2021, 10:33:11 AM
I really enjoyed Purslow’s interview on Villa TV.  Very realistic and honest. Acknowledging a great start and a tail off being disappointing rather than telling us that everything is wonderful. The overall feeling that the the club is operating on an entirely different level to previously is brilliant. He oozes professionalism, as does the club now.

Agreed. There was something about him though, he seemed very driven, quite steely eyed. Yes, he was pleased enough as to where we’d finished, but not completely satisfied, especially with the second half of the season. 

Between him and the owners, they won’t suffer fools gladly. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Toronto Villa on May 27, 2021, 04:55:38 PM
			

			

				And that’s absolutely what we need. I imagine like any business they will do a year end review and while pointing to many positives, it wasn’t all rosy. I expect when next seasons goals are laid out, expectations will be high. As they should be. I said before there’s not a chance in hell looking at the record alone since he arrived that he will be fired. But the devil is in the details and that won’t be lost on the skilled business leaders and owners we have at the club now. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Hockley Lion on May 30, 2021, 12:06:29 AM
			

			

				A measured response is always more preferable than a hysterical witch hunt.

At least that's what I've found on all the witch hunts I've attended 😂.

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: sickbeggar on May 30, 2021, 07:05:04 AM
			

			

				I imagine they'll be satisfied overall. At least a lot of the criticism aimed at Smith is doing worse without Grealish which is something a lot of managers would struggle with. People sometimes need to get some perspective. Guardiola is a managerial great I suppose but Smith hasn't fucked up as bad tactically this season like he did last night.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Steve67 on May 30, 2021, 09:18:40 AM
			

			

				The pressure will be on Dean, to take the pressure off when Grealish is out of the side.  Hopefully, we are way down the line with the transfer targets and we all come back in August, very satisfied with the transfer dealings, just like we were last year.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Lastfootstamper on May 30, 2021, 09:33:34 AM
			

			

				Were people satisfied last August? Yeah, we're satisfied with them now, they all look like hits. But there was plenty of 'we don't need a right back, we need a left back" & "Brentford have seen us coming again, will we never learn" at the time, along with widespread trepidation about the huge fees paid for a goalkeeper who'd spent a decade failing to oust anyone ahead of him, and yet another one footed lightweight winger from a "crap" league. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Steve67 on May 30, 2021, 09:42:31 AM
			

			

				I don’t recall anybody saying on the transfer thread last season, what a load of shit we’ve bought this season? I think we’ve moved forward again and are now expecting a higher quality of player on an individual basis. Last year, again we were buying in bulk as we were the season before. Now though, we are at a period of time where we need individuals of quality rather than wholesale changes. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Lastfootstamper on May 30, 2021, 10:18:44 AM
			

			

				We only bought four players, hardly 'bulk'. And I'm not saying people said they were shit, an overall take of people's opinions on it at the time would've probably been 'underwhelming'. 
Quote
I am rather underwhelmed with links to Ollie Watkins but I suppose we are not yet established enough to attract better/top quality players and have to take what we can, hope they get better, and become the type of player we always needed, moneyball stylee.  It's a risk because he might be crap in the Premier Division but as Jim Bowen used to say, 'that's the gamble'.
 
Quote
No chance. Watkins with all the pressure to score the goals in his first prem season, have we learnt nothing from Gestede and Wesley?
 
Some even viewed it as preparing for a return to the Championship. 
Quote
But if there is any truth in the Cash, Watkins, Benrahma, Swift links, then I will find it massively underwhelming and it would feel too me as though we are attempting to build a squad too get out of the Championship.
 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: sickbeggar on May 30, 2021, 10:26:19 AM
			

			

				I thought Watkins was a risk at the price. He was, given the level he'd played at. Obviously Smith knew better than me and got it right.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Lastfootstamper on May 30, 2021, 11:03:26 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: sickbeggar on May 30, 2021, 10:26:19 AM
I thought Watkins was a risk at the price. He was, given the level he'd played at. Obviously Smith knew better than me and got it right.
 
They've all been risks. Since we came back, our only dabbles into the market of players tried and tested at this level have been, I believe, the loans of Drinkwater and Barkley. I've mentioned before about the utterly irrational level of faith I have in Smith based on a belief that in my entire 55 years on the planet, he and SGT are the only Villa managers better at the job than I would be, and that holds true with his transfer dealings too, so I'm not really including myself in this. I just think it's a bit of a stretch to suggest that as the window drew towards a close last summer, people were, on the whole, 'satisfied' with our dealings, given how we'd finished the previous season. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: sickbeggar on May 30, 2021, 11:16:40 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on May 30, 2021, 11:03:26 AM
Quote from: sickbeggar on May 30, 2021, 10:26:19 AM
I thought Watkins was a risk at the price. He was, given the level he'd played at. Obviously Smith knew better than me and got it right.
 
They've all been risks.  Since we came back, our only dabbles into the market of players tried and tested at this level have been, I believe, the loans of Drinkwater and Barkley. I've mentioned before about the utterly irrational level of faith I have in Smith based on a belief that in my entire 55 years on the planet, he and SGT are the only Villa managers better at the job than I would be, and that holds true with his transfer dealings too, so I'm not really including myself in this. I just think it's a bit of a stretch to suggest that as the window drew towards a close last summer, people were, on the whole, 'satisfied' with our dealings, given how we'd finished the previous season.

yeah I agree with you. I must say that I always thought Martinez was a bargain though. At least I think I did... ;)
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Steve67 on May 30, 2021, 11:17:54 AM
			

			

				Each to their own.  I was pleased with the business.  We brought in five players, one on loan.  I'd say that was bulk given it's nearly half a team.  Every transfer is a risk.  Some you win, some you lose.  We mostly won.  Berkley didn't work out, that's the risk we took. Other than Jota, I think we have bought very well generally.  Like I say, each to their own. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Lastfootstamper on May 30, 2021, 11:24:20 AM
			

			

				There wasn't any stalking or anything going on, promise, I was just looking through towards the end of last season's transfer thread and found those posts I've quoted. That first 'underwhelming' Watkins one was yours, Steve. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Steve67 on May 30, 2021, 12:38:16 PM
			

			

				Fair cop, you stalking bugger you!  I think I was underwhelmed as I expected him to play on the wing (he says, backtracking wildly).  Lots of money I guess but it worked out for him and Villa. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ez on May 30, 2021, 01:20:44 PM
			

			

				Jota and Samatta are the only flops so far. The jury is still out on a few like Sanson and Wesley but overall very good business. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: KevinGage on May 30, 2021, 01:25:53 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on May 30, 2021, 09:33:34 AM
Were people satisfied last August? Yeah, we're satisfied with them now, they all look like hits. But there was plenty of 'we don't need a right back, we need a left back" & "Brentford have seen us coming again, will we never learn" at the time, along with widespread trepidation about the huge fees paid for a goalkeeper who'd spent a decade failing to oust anyone ahead of him, and yet another one footed lightweight winger from a "crap" league. 

Good point. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Hockley Lion on May 30, 2021, 03:36:49 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: sickbeggar on May 30, 2021, 07:05:04 AM
I imagine they'll be satisfied overall. At least a lot of the criticism aimed at Smith is doing worse without Grealish which is something a lot of managers would struggle with. People sometimes need to get some perspective. Guardiola is a managerial great I suppose but Smith hasn't fucked up as bad tactically this season like he did last night.

Indeed, if we'd played Chelsea in the final we'd probably have been more likely to win since Dean has better form against Tuchel recently than Pep. 

No doubt there are mutterings amongst a section of Man City fans about Pep's fucking incompetence.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on May 30, 2021, 09:45:28 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on May 30, 2021, 09:33:34 AM
Were people satisfied last August? Yeah, we're satisfied with them now, they all look like hits. But there was plenty of 'we don't need a right back, we need a left back" & "Brentford have seen us coming again, will we never learn" at the time, along with widespread trepidation about the huge fees paid for a goalkeeper who'd spent a decade failing to oust anyone ahead of him, and yet another one footed lightweight winger from a "crap" league. 

I honestly thought we'd overpaid for Ollie....but he's been worth every penny with what he's given us in final third. Night and day compared to the last one we signed from Brentford for a big fee.

Very good goals tally aswell in the end considering he was robbed of at least 3 by VAR in first half of the season and he can also improve his finishing when one v one as hesitates a bit too much.

Loved the Emi signing. I knew he'd be good but not quite as good as he's been.

Cash was also probably overpriced but again many fullbacks signed now from here and abroad are in the 10-15m range.

Now the challenge is this. To go from 11th to 6th is much much harder than 17th-11th.

I think that's what Purslow is alluding to. Our attacking stats were top half and our defensive stats were pretty much top 6 for whole season yet we finished 4 points off 10th in the end.

It was a freak season with points hauls but I agree we need to get out of mindset of thinking 11th is fine. It will do for now but eventually our key players will want to move on if we can't significantly improve on that in next 2-3 years.

Really interested what we do in the summer. If we can get this window as right as we did 12 months ago it can shape us for next 5 years I reckon.

Similar to us signing Carew and Young in January 2007 kept us ticking along nicely up to May 2010 so need to find two of those types this summer as we are strong in many areas of the first 11 now.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on May 30, 2021, 09:53:37 PM
			

			

				Think the manager will also have a decent say in the recruitment aswell again.

I mean last summer we decided to spend 25-30m on a forward and with all the data we have for players worldwide we decided to spend it on someone who'd just played 18 months under DS.

And he was right. Given the previous summer we spent 22m on a forward who was very raw for premier league and then the dodgy moves for Samatta and Borja Baston to keep us up in that January. So he had a right to stick his nose in that area and demand a greater say.

I'm not sure he's always too keen on players we bring in with little experience of the league. Kalinic played about 3 games and was never seen again although still on our books. Compared to Nyland who got countless chances. Gulibert looked like he had potential but him being loaned out dosen't bode well for returning next season imo. Engels got chances at the start but seems around xmas him and DS fell out and now he hasn't played in over a year and Sanson already has a feel of forgotten man about him although has been injured last two months.

Probably ties in with the more British based comments from DS given the likes to Buendia and McNeill so far although I'd still really love us to get in a top tier talent from the continent just to show we mean business e.g. something similar to Leicester signing Tielemans a couple of years ago when he was highly rated at Monaco and Leicester were about 12th in premier league.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Allan C on May 31, 2021, 12:00:25 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: SoccerHQ on May 30, 2021, 09:53:37 PM
Think the manager will also have a decent say in the recruitment aswell again.

I mean last summer we decided to spend 25-30m on a forward and with all the data we have for players worldwide we decided to spend it on someone who'd just played 18 months under DS.

And he was right. Given the previous summer we spent 22m on a forward who was very raw for premier league and then the dodgy moves for Samatta and Borja Baston to keep us up in that January. So he had a right to stick his nose in that area and demand a greater say.

I'm not sure he's always too keen on players we bring in with little experience of the league. Kalinic played about 3 games and was never seen again although still on our books. Compared to Nyland who got countless chances. Gulibert looked like he had potential but him being loaned out dosen't bode well for returning next season imo. Engels got chances at the start but seems around xmas him and DS fell out and now he hasn't played in over a year and Sanson already has a feel of forgotten man about him although has been injured last two months.

Probably ties in with the more British based comments from DS given the likes to Buendia and McNeill so far although I'd still really love us to get in a top tier talent from the continent just to show we mean business e.g. something similar to Leicester signing Tielemans a couple of years ago when he was highly rated at Monaco and Leicester were about 12th in premier league.
Yes agree with this. The signings last summer were spot on for what we needed to get from relegation fodder to mid-table/top 8. In our position now we wouldn’t buy the same type of players. I believe we can look at more PL established talent rather than “buy and hope” players from lower leagues. That will IMO show real ambition to go the next step
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ArturFrost on May 31, 2021, 04:01:48 PM
			

			

				And it’s official!

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: eamonn on May 31, 2021, 04:17:02 PM
			

			

				Bot alert.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Demitri_C on June 01, 2021, 09:32:18 AM
			

			

				The reliable "football insider" thinks mendes has spoken to us about replacing Smith with nuno.

What uttee nonsense. Smith has had a bumpy 2021 but there is no way his job is on the line yet
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: AV82EC on June 01, 2021, 10:39:53 AM
			

			

				The words “reliable” and “Football Insider” make up the worlds greatest Oxymoron surely. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Monty on June 01, 2021, 10:51:49 AM
			

			

				Bullshit married with bullshit.

And let me say, if we were to replace Dean, no fucking way would I have Nuno come in, and I'm sure the owners feel the same.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: chrisw1 on June 01, 2021, 11:51:06 AM
			

			

				Nuno's an excellent manager and one poor season where the club has sold Jota and Doherty and he's lost his most influential player to injury shouldn't take away from what he has achieved.

I'm not saying I'd swap him for Smith and yes he does play counter attacking football, but I'm amazed how quickly people are writing off a manager who would have been in the mix for any of the big jobs 12 months ago.    
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: chrisw1 on June 01, 2021, 02:18:51 PM
			

			

				Sounds like Ancelotti may be going to Real Madrid.  Shame for Everton.  Wonder if Nuno will go there?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on June 01, 2021, 04:21:59 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: chrisw1 on June 01, 2021, 11:51:06 AM
Nuno's an excellent manager and one poor season where the club has sold Jota and Doherty and he's lost his most influential player to injury shouldn't take away from what he has achieved.

I'm not saying I'd swap him for Smith and yes he does play counter attacking football, but I'm amazed how quickly people are writing off a manager who would have been in the mix for any of the big jobs 12 months ago.    

Indeed. Our season pretty well collapsed in on itself when we lost Jack. They lost Jiminez, Jota, Doherty and to all intents Traore as well.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Toronto Villa on June 01, 2021, 04:38:43 PM
			

			

				Some suggestions now that Nuno is favourite for the Palace job. Imagine dog head fans going from the lofty rarified air of feeling they should be competing for players with Real Madrid and Barcelona to find the most successful manager in their recent history walks out on them to join the mighty Crystal Palace. If that happens snot will come out of my nose with laughter. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: N'ZMAV on June 01, 2021, 04:49:12 PM
			

			

				I will piss my pants. Gladly. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on June 01, 2021, 04:55:12 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: chrisw1 on June 01, 2021, 11:51:06 AM
Nuno's an excellent manager and one poor season where the club has sold Jota and Doherty and he's lost his most influential player to injury shouldn't take away from what he has achieved.

I'm not saying I'd swap him for Smith and yes he does play counter attacking football, but I'm amazed how quickly people are writing off a manager who would have been in the mix for any of the big jobs 12 months ago.    

Indeed. I was shocked The Plastics never went for him last summer, promotion champions in his first season and followed by two 7th place finishes at a club like Wolves. Fortunately they stuck with Ole.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: danno on June 01, 2021, 04:57:15 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on June 01, 2021, 04:55:12 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on June 01, 2021, 11:51:06 AM
Nuno's an excellent manager and one poor season where the club has sold Jota and Doherty and he's lost his most influential player to injury shouldn't take away from what he has achieved.

I'm not saying I'd swap him for Smith and yes he does play counter attacking football, but I'm amazed how quickly people are writing off a manager who would have been in the mix for any of the big jobs 12 months ago.    

Indeed. I was shocked The Plastics never went for him last summer, promotion champions in his first season and followed by two 7th place finishes at a club like Wolves. Fortunately they stuck with Ole.

I think they went through a phase of avoiding dealing with Mendes. Which is understandable given that he regularly slags them off in the press.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: eamonn on June 01, 2021, 05:12:34 PM
			

			

				Feel a bit bad for Everton. Ancelotti's arrival had them buoyant for the first time in years and it seemed that he was committed to them. 

When your ex is wealthy, hot and flutters their eyelashes years after dumping you, your eyebrows must raise in surprise. Or in Carlo's case, rise to giddy new heights. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Toronto Villa on June 01, 2021, 06:02:10 PM
			

			

				Surely his ex is broke, having racked up massive credit card bills, hates her neighbours and wants to move out of the area to somewhere more her type even though she can’t afford it. Her face has caked on make up from years of plastic surgery. And yeh sure Carlo will come back in to her life, and she will give him a gummer on the sofa once in blue moon while watching late night soap operas, but eventually she will fuck the pool boy like last time and dump him.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: eamonn on June 01, 2021, 06:15:27 PM
			

			

				When you put it like that...poor Carlo. Here's to a gummer-summer for him at least!
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: OCD on June 02, 2021, 11:35:33 AM
			

			

				A lot of fans wanted us to appoint a manager like Ancelotti but this is what can happen. A Real Madrid bat their eye lids at him and he's off. Now Everton are back to the drawing board. They need to make the right appointment and one that won't want to rip everything up they've done there. Who won't look at all the work their recruitment department has done during the year and want to do something very different. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: chrisw1 on June 02, 2021, 12:06:47 PM
			

			

				Whilst we're talking about Everton, here's a reminder of what it can cost to come 10th with a supposedly world class manager at the helm...

20/21
Godfrey - £24.75m
Allan    - £22.50m
Doucouré   - £19.89m
Rodrigues - free but fucking massive wages

19/20
Alex Iwobi   - £27.36m
Moise Kean - £24.75m
Gbamin - £22.50m
André Gomes - £22.50m
Fabian Delph - £8.55m

18/19
Richarlison - £35.28m
Yerry Mina - £27.23m
Lucas Digne - £18.18m

17/18
Gylfi Sigurdsson    - £44.46m
Michael Keane - £25.65m
Jordan Pickford - £25.65m
Davy Klaassen - £24.30m
Cenk Tosun - £20.25m
Theo Walcott - £20.25m
Nikola Vlasic - £9.72m

16/17
Yannick Bolasie - £26.01m
Morgan Schneiderlin - £20.70m
Ashley Williams - £12.60m
Ademola Lookman - £7.92m
Idrissa Gueye - £7.65m

Thats c £525m over 5 years.

And yes, that really is over 27m for Iwobi.

They recouped big money for Lukaku, Stones etc, but even so the siums are eye watering.


			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SheffieldVillain on June 02, 2021, 12:13:28 PM
			

			

				A few good signings in there - Digne I think is a really good player but in general, wow, that's an impressive way to waste 500m.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Percy McCarthy on June 02, 2021, 12:13:40 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: chrisw1 on June 02, 2021, 12:06:47 PM
Whilst we're talking about Everton, here's a reminder of what it can cost to come 10th with a supposedly world class manager at the helm...

20/21
Godfrey - £24.75m
Allan    - £22.50m
Doucouré   - £19.89m
Rodrigues - free but fucking massive wages

19/20
Alex Iwobi   - £27.36m
Moise Kean - £24.75m
Gbamin - £22.50m
André Gomes - £22.50m
Fabian Delph - £8.55m

18/19
Richarlison - £35.28m
Yerry Mina - £27.23m
Lucas Digne - £18.18m

17/18
Gylfi Sigurdsson    - £44.46m
Michael Keane - £25.65m
Jordan Pickford - £25.65m
Davy Klaassen - £24.30m
Cenk Tosun - £20.25m
Theo Walcott - £20.25m
Nikola Vlasic - £9.72m

16/17
Yannick Bolasie - £26.01m
Morgan Schneiderlin - £20.70m
Ashley Williams - £12.60m
Ademola Lookman - £7.92m
Idrissa Gueye - £7.65m

Thats c £525m over 5 years.

And yes, that really is over 27m for Iwobi.

They recouped big money for Lukaku, Stones etc, but even so the siums are eye watering.

Getting someone like Grealish... that’s the hard part. But if you look at our similar level of recruitment over the last couple of years, it’s still better. They haven’t bought  as well as us with Emi, Konsa, Mings, Cash, Targett and Watkins IMO. .
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: mr underhill on June 02, 2021, 12:56:10 PM
			

			

				i'd love it if Rafa goes there. Scenes!!
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Toronto Villa on June 02, 2021, 12:59:08 PM
			

			

				Some of those numbers look a bit off. Richarlison from Watford was £40m rising to close to £50m. Iwobi was £40m from Arsenal. Sigurdson was £45m. Where did you get those from Chris? 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: chrisw1 on June 02, 2021, 01:02:28 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Toronto Villa on June 02, 2021, 12:59:08 PM
Some of those numbers look a bit off. Richarlison from Watford was £40m rising to close to £50m. Iwobi was £40m from Arsenal. Sigurdson was £45m. Where did you get those from Chris? 

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-everton/alletransfers/verein/29
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Toronto Villa on June 02, 2021, 01:09:06 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: chrisw1 on June 02, 2021, 01:02:28 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on June 02, 2021, 12:59:08 PM
Some of those numbers look a bit off. Richarlison from Watford was £40m rising to close to £50m. Iwobi was £40m from Arsenal. Sigurdson was £45m. Where did you get those from Chris? 

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-everton/alletransfers/verein/29

Not that it matters as the numbers still make your eyes bleed. Here are some of the articles at the time. 

Richarlison - https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/44946473
Iwobi (35, not 40m) - https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11671/11780460/alex-iwobi-everton-sign-midfielder-from-arsenal
Sigurdsson - https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/08/16/gylfi-sigurdsson-joins-everton-45m-deal/

Like I said either way bonkers what they’ve spent
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on June 02, 2021, 01:12:12 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: SheffieldVillain on June 02, 2021, 12:13:28 PM
A few good signings in there - Digne I think is a really good player but in general, wow, that's an impressive way to waste 500m.
A few Turkeys as well.
Thats exactly the strategy that we need to avoid, filling up the squad with average players. 

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: manic-road on June 02, 2021, 01:20:55 PM
			

			

				Over £26m spent on Yannick Bolasie plus his £3.9m a year wage (5 year contract) spent mainly on loan at other clubs. Eyewatering 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: chrisw1 on June 02, 2021, 01:27:50 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Toronto Villa on June 02, 2021, 01:09:06 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on June 02, 2021, 01:02:28 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on June 02, 2021, 12:59:08 PM
Some of those numbers look a bit off. Richarlison from Watford was £40m rising to close to £50m. Iwobi was £40m from Arsenal. Sigurdson was £45m. Where did you get those from Chris? 

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-everton/alletransfers/verein/29

Not that it matters as the numbers still make your eyes bleed. Here are some of the articles at the time. 

Richarlison - https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/44946473
Iwobi (35, not 40m) - https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11671/11780460/alex-iwobi-everton-sign-midfielder-from-arsenal
Sigurdsson - https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/08/16/gylfi-sigurdsson-joins-everton-45m-deal/

Like I said either way bonkers what they’ve spent
I'm sure you're right, some of the figures sounded low to me, but I didn't feel like individually researching them and I think that website is reasonably well regarded?  Maybe it excludes add ons?  
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Duncan Shaw on June 02, 2021, 01:35:39 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: manic-road on June 02, 2021, 01:20:55 PM
Over £26m spent on Yannick Bolasie plus his £3.9m a year wage (5 year contract) spent mainly on loan at other clubs. Eyewatering 
Ross McCormack, Scott Hogan - not quite as much granted, but we all seem to have them!
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: mr underhill on June 02, 2021, 02:22:00 PM
			

			

				yes our glasshouse is almost as big as theirs.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Smithy on June 03, 2021, 05:21:46 PM
			

			

				I make that 16 players Everton have bought for over £20m in the last five years.  Over an entire side plus subs, with everyone over £20m.  We're still quite a long way away from that level...  I think we have three players over £20m in total?

Obviously that's "sort of" where we want to be, with the squad littered with players worth more than £20m, but I hope we develop a few of our own, rather than buying towards the top end of the market, like it seems Everton have.  But it also illustrates the size of the gap that we're trying to bridge.  They were spending £35m on Richarlison and £27m on Mina when our 'big' signings were Guilbert and Kalinic for £5m each.

We've done exceptionally well to become competitive in the premier league so quickly, but it's going to take some very clever moves in the transfer market to take us to a level above the likes of Everton.

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Percy McCarthy on June 03, 2021, 06:51:08 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Smithy on June 03, 2021, 05:21:46 PM
I make that 16 players Everton have bought for over £20m in the last five years.  Over an entire side plus subs, with everyone over £20m.  We're still quite a long way away from that level...  I think we have three players over £20m in total?

Obviously that's "sort of" where we want to be, with the squad littered with players worth more than £20m, but I hope we develop a few of our own, rather than buying towards the top end of the market, like it seems Everton have.  But it also illustrates the size of the gap that we're trying to bridge.  They were spending £35m on Richarlison and £27m on Mina when our 'big' signings were Guilbert and Kalinic for £5m each.

We've done exceptionally well to become competitive in the premier league so quickly, but it's going to take some very clever moves in the transfer market to take us to a level above the likes of Everton.

I’d say every player in our first choice XI is worth over £20m, some well over, with (maybe, depending on your opinion) a question mark over Bert. We’ve done some fantastic deals when you consider we’ve only paid over £20m three times. Also gives us scope to keep spending big and wisely.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on June 03, 2021, 07:14:05 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Percy McCarthy on June 03, 2021, 06:51:08 PM
Quote from: Smithy on June 03, 2021, 05:21:46 PM
I make that 16 players Everton have bought for over £20m in the last five years.  Over an entire side plus subs, with everyone over £20m.  We're still quite a long way away from that level...  I think we have three players over £20m in total?

Obviously that's "sort of" where we want to be, with the squad littered with players worth more than £20m, but I hope we develop a few of our own, rather than buying towards the top end of the market, like it seems Everton have.  But it also illustrates the size of the gap that we're trying to bridge.  They were spending £35m on Richarlison and £27m on Mina when our 'big' signings were Guilbert and Kalinic for £5m each.

We've done exceptionally well to become competitive in the premier league so quickly, but it's going to take some very clever moves in the transfer market to take us to a level above the likes of Everton.

I’d say every player in our first choice XI is worth over £20m, some well over, with (maybe, depending on your opinion) a question mark over Bert. We’ve done some fantastic deals when you consider we’ve only paid over £20m three times. Also gives us scope to keep spending big and wisely.

I think getting to 10 is pretty easy (Martinez, Cash, Targett, Konsa, Mings, Luiz, McGinn, Grealish, Watkins and Bert). The final spot in tough, Wesley cost more but until he's fully recovered from his injury he's not worth it, Sanson hasn't settled in so his value is questionable, AEG probably not quite. After that I don't think anyone else comes close.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Percy McCarthy on June 03, 2021, 08:39:48 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: paul_e on June 03, 2021, 07:14:05 PM
Quote from: Percy McCarthy on June 03, 2021, 06:51:08 PM
Quote from: Smithy on June 03, 2021, 05:21:46 PM
I make that 16 players Everton have bought for over £20m in the last five years.  Over an entire side plus subs, with everyone over £20m.  We're still quite a long way away from that level...  I think we have three players over £20m in total?

Obviously that's "sort of" where we want to be, with the squad littered with players worth more than £20m, but I hope we develop a few of our own, rather than buying towards the top end of the market, like it seems Everton have.  But it also illustrates the size of the gap that we're trying to bridge.  They were spending £35m on Richarlison and £27m on Mina when our 'big' signings were Guilbert and Kalinic for £5m each.

We've done exceptionally well to become competitive in the premier league so quickly, but it's going to take some very clever moves in the transfer market to take us to a level above the likes of Everton.

I’d say every player in our first choice XI is worth over £20m, some well over, with (maybe, depending on your opinion) a question mark over Bert. We’ve done some fantastic deals when you consider we’ve only paid over £20m three times. Also gives us scope to keep spending big and wisely.

I think getting to 10 is pretty easy (Martinez, Cash, Targett, Konsa, Mings, Luiz, McGinn, Grealish, Watkins and Bert). The final spot in tough, Wesley cost more but until he's fully recovered from his injury he's not worth it, Sanson hasn't settled in so his value is questionable, AEG probably not quite. After that I don't think anyone else comes close.

Yes, you’re right, ten. In my head I put Jack in for AEG without thinking about the midfield. Some of the valuations among those ten have rocketed though.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Smithy on June 03, 2021, 08:53:47 PM
			

			

				I agree about the value of all those players, and it's an indication of how well we've done in the transfer market that we've spent over £200m since we've been back in the premier league but the value of those players is probably now closer to £300m+.

But that sort of expenditure, buying £10-20m players and hoping we turn them into £20-30m players probably isn't enough to get us into the top 6, never mind the top 4.  We moved up 6 places last season, but the next 6 are going to be orders of magnitude more difficult.  I hope we'll be buying some players ready to contribute to that improvement from day 1, rather than just players at our current level that we hope will improve with us.

I'm happy to see us buying players who will improve, absolutely, and I hope that continues as a long-term strategy - but this summer I think it's important Dean has at least a couple of players who can come in and go straight into the first 11 AND improve it immediately.  And that's a big challenge, we're shopping at a level where the pool of players is much smaller, and the competition much more fierce.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on June 03, 2021, 09:02:06 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Smithy on June 03, 2021, 08:53:47 PM
I agree about the value of all those players, and it's an indication of how well we've done in the transfer market that we've spent over £200m since we've been back in the premier league but the value of those players is probably now closer to £300m+.

But that sort of expenditure, buying £10-20m players and hoping we turn them into £20-30m players probably isn't enough to get us into the top 6, never mind the top 4.  We moved up 6 places last season, but the next 6 are going to be orders of magnitude more difficult.  I hope we'll be buying some players ready to contribute to that improvement from day 1, rather than just players at our current level that we hope will improve with us.

I'm happy to see us buying players who will improve, absolutely, and I hope that continues as a long-term strategy - but this summer I think it's important Dean has at least a couple of players who can come in and go straight into the first 11 AND improve it immediately.  And that's a big challenge, we're shopping at a level where the pool of players is much smaller, and the competition much more fierce.

I agree completely, that's why we need to look at areas where we can get the most improvement with good signings in the 30-40m range and then see if a few of the players who've already improved can make another step up.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Percy McCarthy on June 03, 2021, 09:08:24 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Smithy on June 03, 2021, 08:53:47 PM
I agree about the value of all those players, and it's an indication of how well we've done in the transfer market that we've spent over £200m since we've been back in the premier league but the value of those players is probably now closer to £300m+.

But that sort of expenditure, buying £10-20m players and hoping we turn them into £20-30m players probably isn't enough to get us into the top 6, never mind the top 4.  We moved up 6 places last season, but the next 6 are going to be orders of magnitude more difficult.  I hope we'll be buying some players ready to contribute to that improvement from day 1, rather than just players at our current level that we hope will improve with us.

I'm happy to see us buying players who will improve, absolutely, and I hope that continues as a long-term strategy - but this summer I think it's important Dean has at least a couple of players who can come in and go straight into the first 11 AND improve it immediately.  And that's a big challenge, we're shopping at a level where the pool of players is much smaller, and the competition much more fierce.

Yes, spot on. As I said the other day, four top quality signings this summer will hopefully get us where we need to be to keep Jack. I think the time for gambling on unknowns is either at the same time as buying proven quality in several positions, or next summer.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: brontebilly on June 03, 2021, 11:01:39 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: chrisw1 on June 02, 2021, 12:06:47 PM
Whilst we're talking about Everton, here's a reminder of what it can cost to come 10th with a supposedly world class manager at the helm...

20/21
Godfrey - £24.75m
Allan    - £22.50m
Doucouré   - £19.89m
Rodrigues - free but fucking massive wages

19/20
Alex Iwobi   - £27.36m
Moise Kean - £24.75m
Gbamin - £22.50m
André Gomes - £22.50m
Fabian Delph - £8.55m

18/19
Richarlison - £35.28m
Yerry Mina - £27.23m
Lucas Digne - £18.18m

17/18
Gylfi Sigurdsson    - £44.46m
Michael Keane - £25.65m
Jordan Pickford - £25.65m
Davy Klaassen - £24.30m
Cenk Tosun - £20.25m
Theo Walcott - £20.25m
Nikola Vlasic - £9.72m

16/17
Yannick Bolasie - £26.01m
Morgan Schneiderlin - £20.70m
Ashley Williams - £12.60m
Ademola Lookman - £7.92m
Idrissa Gueye - £7.65m

Thats c £525m over 5 years.

And yes, that really is over 27m for Iwobi.

They recouped big money for Lukaku, Stones etc, but even so the siums are eye watering.

A few coaches have had a go in that time, didn't they buy and sell Rooney in that time too?

Arsenal must love when Everton come in for their cast offs. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: eamonn on June 03, 2021, 11:09:52 PM
			

			

				I think we'd definitely get £20m for El Ghazi on the open market. His stats might hide the weaknesses in his game but he gets goalz.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Mister E on June 04, 2021, 07:10:17 AM
			

			

				Deano speaks (https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/jun/03/aston-villa-owners-elite-club-dean-smith-premier-league) about our ambition in today's Grauniad online.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: sickbeggar on June 04, 2021, 07:16:04 AM
			

			

				Good interview that. Makes a good point about how much harder it is to get to the top 6 from mid-table, than from the relegation zone to mid-table
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on June 04, 2021, 09:06:36 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: chrisw1 on June 02, 2021, 12:06:47 PM
Whilst we're talking about Everton, here's a reminder of what it can cost to come 10th with a supposedly world class manager at the helm...

20/21
Godfrey - £24.75m
Allan    - £22.50m
Doucouré   - £19.89m
Rodrigues - free but fucking massive wages

19/20
Alex Iwobi   - £27.36m
Moise Kean - £24.75m
Gbamin - £22.50m
André Gomes - £22.50m
Fabian Delph - £8.55m

18/19
Richarlison - £35.28m
Yerry Mina - £27.23m
Lucas Digne - £18.18m

17/18
Gylfi Sigurdsson    - £44.46m
Michael Keane - £25.65m
Jordan Pickford - £25.65m
Davy Klaassen - £24.30m
Cenk Tosun - £20.25m
Theo Walcott - £20.25m
Nikola Vlasic - £9.72m

16/17
Yannick Bolasie - £26.01m
Morgan Schneiderlin - £20.70m
Ashley Williams - £12.60m
Ademola Lookman - £7.92m
Idrissa Gueye - £7.65m

Thats c £525m over 5 years.

And yes, that really is over 27m for Iwobi.

They recouped big money for Lukaku, Stones etc, but even so the siums are eye watering.



Thanks for that
I never realised Everton had spent so much money I thought they were similar to us to be honest which Is still a lot but not in that league

Just shows how key the transfer market and buying the right players is to success really

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: chrisw1 on June 04, 2021, 10:14:02 AM
			

			

				In fairness they got £75m for Lukaku,  £50m for Stones, £27 for Gueye, £15m for Barkley, £16m for Lookman + a few others, whereas we haven't managed to recoup anything for anybody we've sold in the last few years.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Monty on June 04, 2021, 10:16:06 AM
			

			

				And they misspent almost every penny, whereas we went and got Watkins, Targett, Cash etc. Much better.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: eamonn on June 04, 2021, 10:53:34 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: sickbeggar on June 04, 2021, 07:16:04 AM
Good interview that. Makes a good point about how much harder it is to get to the top 6 from mid-table, than from the relegation zone to mid-table

I've read a few different people saying it on here. It's going from wisdom to cliché fairly quickly. Hopefully Deano can up his press-game. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on June 04, 2021, 11:14:52 AM
			

			

				It's not easy, but I think he largely threw the chance away this season to get ahead of the game.  Obviously losing Jack was a big factor, but half a season of almost relegation form wasn't acceptable. Crap subs, lack of tactical flexibility and the bizarre persistence with Ross Barkley were contributing factors.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: London Villan on June 04, 2021, 11:27:56 AM
			

			

				Thing is, we wouldn't have got top 4, but securing a Europa league spot would likely do more damage than good next season with the additional 15 or so games.

We need to bypass 5/6/7th and jump straight into the Champs league spots next season - easy.


			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: eamonn on June 04, 2021, 11:28:25 AM
			

			

				The club had invested a lot in Barkley, he was always going to be given every chance to prove himself, rightly or wrongly.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: chrisw1 on June 04, 2021, 11:37:49 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: eamonn on June 04, 2021, 11:28:25 AM
The club had invested a lot in Barkley, he was always going to be given every chance to prove himself, rightly or wrongly.
Yep, I think he thought the way out of the rut was for Barkley to play himself back into form.  I understand the logic but it just never happened.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: algy on June 04, 2021, 11:57:45 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: eamonn on June 04, 2021, 11:28:25 AM
The club had invested a lot in Barkley, he was always going to be given every chance to prove himself, rightly or wrongly.
We also didn't look any great shakes without Barkley, and you'd have to say that Ross had the biggest potential to add the creative spark we needed out of the realistic options. I'd have maybe been tempted to shake it up a bit, but I can see the logic behind persisting with Barkley. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: JD on June 04, 2021, 11:58:35 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: chrisw1 on June 04, 2021, 11:37:49 AM
Quote from: eamonn on June 04, 2021, 11:28:25 AM
The club had invested a lot in Barkley, he was always going to be given every chance to prove himself, rightly or wrongly.
Yep, I think he thought the way out of the rut was for Barkley to play himself back into form.  I understand the logic but it just never happened.

He looked great in the first few games and I thought we got a class player, But unfortunately he just went downhill. He looked like he was running through treacle in the second half of the season and I felt a bit sorry for him as he looked kind of desperate, as if he knew his big chance to get back in the big time had passed him by.   
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on June 04, 2021, 12:09:01 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: algy on June 04, 2021, 11:57:45 AM
Quote from: eamonn on June 04, 2021, 11:28:25 AM
The club had invested a lot in Barkley, he was always going to be given every chance to prove himself, rightly or wrongly.
We also didn't look any great shakes without Barkley, and you'd have to say that Ross had the biggest potential to add the creative spark we needed out of the realistic options. I'd have maybe been tempted to shake it up a bit, but I can see the logic behind persisting with Barkley.
I cant, he never looked fit enough to compete and that must have shown up in training.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: OCD on June 04, 2021, 12:15:21 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: London Villan on June 04, 2021, 11:27:56 AM
Thing is, we wouldn't have got top 4, but securing a Europa league spot would likely do more damage than good next season with the additional 15 or so games.

We need to bypass 5/6/7th and jump straight into the Champs league spots next season - easy.



West Ham almost did it.  
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: eamonn on June 04, 2021, 12:17:26 PM
			

			

				He's probably the biggest player Deano has managed (excluding Jack who is an outlier in many ways). Barkley has played regularly for England, in the Champions League etc. That pedigree, his quality potentially rubbing off on other players (i.e the early results and match-winners like at Southampton) and the finances involved (huge wages and a a chunky loan fee)...Smith was always going to try and extract as much out of him as possible. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: OCD on June 04, 2021, 12:21:08 PM
			

			

				“We have now got the youngest average age group on the longest-term contracts in the Premier League." That stood out to me. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Smithy on June 04, 2021, 12:39:48 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: OCD on June 04, 2021, 12:21:08 PM
“We have now got the youngest average age group on the longest-term contracts in the Premier League." That stood out to me. 

Indeed. It's actually quite shocking to think our entire first-eleven could comfortably play at this level together for another 4 or 5 years.  Obviously they won't, but they're young enough to. The fact that our oldest outfield player - by a couple of years - is a 28-year-old centre-back is pretty remarkable.

A couple of top-quality additions this summer (and a 100% fit Jack Grealish) and I'll be very excited about what next season could bring...
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on June 04, 2021, 12:53:56 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: eamonn on June 04, 2021, 12:17:26 PM
He's probably the biggest player Deano has managed (excluding Jack who is an outlier in many ways). Barkley has played regularly for England, in the Champions League etc. That pedigree, his quality potentially rubbing off on other players (i.e the early results and match-winners like at Southampton) and the finances involved (huge wages and a a chunky loan fee)...Smith was always going to try and extract as much out of him as possible. 

Continuing with something that very clearly isn't working and crossing fingers that it will is just daft though. And if it's true what you say about Smith, well he needs to get rid of that small time mentality ASAP. He did the same to a lesser extent with Drinkwater last season and that was an utter disaster.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Smithy on June 04, 2021, 12:53:59 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on June 04, 2021, 11:14:52 AM
It's not easy, but I think he largely threw the chance away this season to get ahead of the game.  Obviously losing Jack was a big factor, but half a season of almost relegation form wasn't acceptable. Crap subs, lack of tactical flexibility and the bizarre persistence with Ross Barkley were contributing factors.

I'm not sure I'd call it "throwing it away", because I still think the biggest factor was the one thing out of his control. 

In the end, we were just 7 points off a European place, and we can all see where those points could have come from during the 12 games Jack was out. Dean definitely carries some of the blame for how we played during that period, but he was managing a team without its best player, so I think he gets some leeway there. 

I was disappointed with Barkley in the end, but I was a big supporter of his, even into the new year, but after the covid break he just wasn't up to it.  I can understand why we persisted (it's not like JJ or Sanson did much better when they got their chance), but it just didn't work out.

I'll be delighted (and surprised) if we come out of the blocks like we did last season, but I would like to see us a bit more consistent across the season, showing top-6-ish form throughout.  Never going more than a couple of games without winning one, trying to avoid back-to-back losses. I don't want to look back on a season of two halves again and wonder "what if"...
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on June 04, 2021, 01:18:25 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: OCD on June 04, 2021, 12:21:08 PM
“We have now got the youngest average age group on the longest-term contracts in the Premier League." That stood out to me. 

Good. But in 2009 we had Milner with three years left on his deal and he was about 23 I think, Young still had 3 years left and 24, had just signed Downing who was 25 on a four year deal and Gabby was still decent in those times and think he was still only 22 at start of that season despite being around for a fair while at that point.

As we know they were all off like a shot once they felt we weren't progressing.

We've got a very good base to build from now so this is where the pressure ramps up as likes of Jack, Emi now he's Argentina number one and Luiz who plays every game for Brazil now won't hang around for next 5 years finishing 10th or 11th.

Feels like next season we need to be finishing at least 8th I think which won't be easy (I think as it stands we have a good chance of finishing above Spurs but that becomes very very difficult again if they get in Conte and convince Kane to stay for one more season).

7th should be ambitious target for next season I think, some will turn their noses up at it but I think with some of the talented youngsters we have emerging then europa conference league will be terrific experience for some of them and a good chance to win a european trophy so we can mix and match until we get to the knock outs.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on June 04, 2021, 01:32:12 PM
			

			

				I don't think 7th would be enough to keep Jack or Emi. That said, if they go it will be for huge money so we may just have to live with it and reinvest wisely. Spurs lost plenty of vital players  (Berbatov, Bale, Modric etc) in the decade that took them into the 'Big Six'(vomit) and they've largely stayed in and around the the correct end of the league.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: eamonn on June 04, 2021, 01:35:16 PM
			

			

				Anywhere in the top ten and the bloody FA Cup would more than suffice.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on June 04, 2021, 02:03:11 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on June 04, 2021, 01:32:12 PM
I don't think 7th would be enough to keep Jack or Emi. That said, if they go it will be for huge money so we may just have to live with it and reinvest wisely. Spurs lost plenty of vital players  (Berbatov, Bale, Modric etc) in the decade that took them into the 'Big Six'(vomit) and they've largely stayed in and around the the correct end of the league.

I think next step that will keep Jack sweet is playing in european competition of some description. And then winning something. That's more realistic than playing CL football anytime soon which becomes a big issue if he's only got two years left on his deal.

We lost all the players mentioned above (and Barry) for that reason.

Pretty much everything would have to go right for serious challenge for top 4 next season e.g. basically all our key players never getting injured and just too much for us currently.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: tomd2103 on June 04, 2021, 02:04:06 PM
			

			

				I do want to see us have a proper go at both cup competitions next season.  Still think we got stitched up last season over the Liverpool tie in the FA Cup.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Nev on June 04, 2021, 02:31:20 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: tomd2103 on June 04, 2021, 02:04:06 PM
I do want to see us have a proper go at both cup competitions next season.  Still think we got stitched up last season over the Liverpool tie in the FA Cup.

Absolutely, we did the honourable thing, rather than bitch and moan and get the game called off but it's soon forgotten and Leicester's name is on the Cup.
Rather like shithousing during games, we need to stop being nice and get everyone to hate us 'cos we're winning.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: OCD on June 04, 2021, 02:47:20 PM
			

			

				It's noteworthy that Pep has still taken the League Cup seriously. I appreciate it's not a like-for-like comparison because of how deep their squad is but he's also not throwing unproven kids in for experience. We need to get a balance between squad rotation and taking competitions seriously. If you look at the side we played against Stoke, the likes of Nakamba and El-Ghazi were looked down upon by us but they've gone on to prove themselves as worthy squad players which I think will help in those competitions. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: chrisw1 on June 04, 2021, 05:06:51 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on June 04, 2021, 01:32:12 PM
I don't think 7th would be enough to keep Jack or Emi. That said, if they go it will be for huge money so we may just have to live with it and reinvest wisely. Spurs lost plenty of vital players  (Berbatov, Bale, Modric etc) in the decade that took them into the 'Big Six'(vomit) and they've largely stayed in and around the the correct end of the league.
I agree.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on June 04, 2021, 10:30:19 PM
			

			

				Leicester is better example.

Spurs in last decade have signed likes of Van Der Vaart, Christen Eriksen, Son, Lucas Moura and Ndombele as various replacements for players who've left so that's the next step for us, going out and signing established players from CL clubs as most of those were at the time.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: not3bad on June 06, 2021, 10:21:32 PM
			

			

				We'll be aiming for top 6 next season, ideally with a trophy.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Toronto Villa on June 06, 2021, 10:23:58 PM
			

			

				Top 6 and a trophy; Deano gets a new contract, Jack stays at the club, we get even better players next summer
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: sickbeggar on June 07, 2021, 06:47:27 AM
			

			

				Long way to go before I start making any predictions of top 6. Lets get a squad in this summer that can cope with a few injuries first, and then see what the teams above us do in the transfer market. 10 points more would have got us 6th on last season so that's gettable. Of the team above us.

Leeds - You'd think they may drop back a bit after being last season's surprise package but you never know with Biesla. Probably won't be on a spending spree
West Ham - gotta be the one team we should overhaul. Won't be spending big
Everton - they have the money, have they the manager?
Tottenham/Arsenal - both of them seem in a long drawn out decline. if they decide to back their managers they could block our progress. You'd think the penny would drop that they're in danger of being overtaken but with their owners who knows.
Leicester- should stay above us with a fit first team but vardy's nearly finished, a few injures or big transfers out who knows. Rumoured to be after Tammy which would pose a problem.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: nigel on June 07, 2021, 08:52:24 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: sickbeggar on June 07, 2021, 06:47:27 AM
Long way to go before I start making any predictions of top 6. Lets get a squad in this summer that can cope with a few injuries first, and then see what the teams above us do in the transfer market. 10 points more would have got us 6th on last season so that's gettable. Of the team above us.

Leeds - You'd think they may drop back a bit after being last season's surprise package but you never know with Biesla. Probably won't be on a spending spree
West Ham - gotta be the one team we should overhaul. Won't be spending big
Everton - they have the money, have they the manager?
Tottenham/Arsenal - both of them seem in a long drawn out decline. if they decide to back their managers they could block our progress. You'd think the penny would drop that they're in danger of being overtaken but with their owners who knows.
Leicester- should stay above us with a fit first team but vardy's nearly finished, a few injures or big transfers out who knows. Rumoured to be after Tammy which would pose a problem.

Agree
We should be looking to overtake 2, or 3, of those to maintain progress. 
Finishing 11th last season has given us an achievable target for this season.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on June 07, 2021, 09:01:22 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: nigel on June 07, 2021, 08:52:24 AM
Quote from: sickbeggar on June 07, 2021, 06:47:27 AM
Long way to go before I start making any predictions of top 6. Lets get a squad in this summer that can cope with a few injuries first, and then see what the teams above us do in the transfer market. 10 points more would have got us 6th on last season so that's gettable. Of the team above us.

Leeds - You'd think they may drop back a bit after being last season's surprise package but you never know with Biesla. Probably won't be on a spending spree
West Ham - gotta be the one team we should overhaul. Won't be spending big
Everton - they have the money, have they the manager?
Tottenham/Arsenal - both of them seem in a long drawn out decline. if they decide to back their managers they could block our progress. You'd think the penny would drop that they're in danger of being overtaken but with their owners who knows.
Leicester- should stay above us with a fit first team but vardy's nearly finished, a few injures or big transfers out who knows. Rumoured to be after Tammy which would pose a problem.

Agree
We should be looking to overtake 2, or 3, of those to maintain progress. 
Finishing 11th last season has given us an achievable target for this season.

Without knowing what transfers are happening it's hard to make predictions but I'll be disappointed if we're below everton, leeds and west ham next season, I see nothing to suggest we can't overtake that lot. Tottenham and Arsenal are tougher because it depends on what signings they make and who they lose but I'd expect us to compete with them regardless.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: robbo1874 on June 07, 2021, 09:39:58 AM
			

			

				Even allowing for the notion that we’re supposedly a season ahead in the 5 year plan, with the season we had last, the players we look like landing and keeping Grealish, top 6 has to be the target surely? FA cup would be a huge bonus and cushion the blow somewhat if we finished between 11th - 7th. That’s the level of my expectation now after this season. Deano’s got a big back room team to support him. I’d take finishing above Spurs if we finished top half but can’t crack top 6 as progress.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: not3bad on June 07, 2021, 09:45:01 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: sickbeggar on June 07, 2021, 06:47:27 AM
Long way to go before I start making any predictions of top 6. Lets get a squad in this summer that can cope with a few injuries first, and then see what the teams above us do in the transfer market. 10 points more would have got us 6th on last season so that's gettable. Of the team above us.

Leeds - You'd think they may drop back a bit after being last season's surprise package but you never know with Biesla. Probably won't be on a spending spree
West Ham - gotta be the one team we should overhaul. Won't be spending big
Everton - they have the money, have they the manager?
Tottenham/Arsenal - both of them seem in a long drawn out decline. if they decide to back their managers they could block our progress. You'd think the penny would drop that they're in danger of being overtaken but with their owners who knows.
Leicester- should stay above us with a fit first team but vardy's nearly finished, a few injures or big transfers out who knows. Rumoured to be after Tammy which would pose a problem.

All these teams we should be looking to finish above next season. I'm not saying it will happen - things will never always go according to plan - but that should be the aim.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Lastfootstamper on June 07, 2021, 09:54:30 AM
			

			

				Win a trophy, everything sorted, everybody happy. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on June 07, 2021, 09:55:38 AM
			

			

				Tottenham with a fit Kane and Son will always be hard to finish above. If they lose Kane though, I can really see them struggling. Arsenal are a nothing midtable team these days, and West Ham could just as easily have a relegation threatened season as repeat their top 6 heroics, especially with Europe to occupy them. Top 6 has to be the aim this year, no excuses.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: cdbearsfan on June 07, 2021, 10:06:49 AM
			

			

				I think all the top four will improve so breaking into that elite will be more difficult, though not completely impossible.

All the other sides that finished above us are catchable, though. We would likely have finished at least seventh if Grealish stayed fit.

Buendia creates extra space for Super Jack, and means we hopefully wouldn't miss him so much in the worst case scenario of another lengthy spell out injured.

Top six and/or a trophy, please, Villa.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on June 07, 2021, 10:43:47 AM
			

			

				Spurs will either have no money or no Kane. I feel for them.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Dr Butler on June 07, 2021, 10:44:23 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on June 07, 2021, 10:43:47 AM
Spurs will either have no money or no Kane. I feel for them.

I fucking don't :)

UTV
The Doc
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on June 07, 2021, 10:56:18 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on June 07, 2021, 10:43:47 AM
Spurs will either have no money or no Kane. I feel for them.

Spurs will have no Kane and still no money. It's reported Spurs have the highest debt in European football at £1.17billion.
Now you can feel for them (or not).
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on June 07, 2021, 11:00:34 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on June 07, 2021, 10:56:18 AM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on June 07, 2021, 10:43:47 AM
Spurs will either have no money or no Kane. I feel for them.

Spurs will have no Kane and still no money. It's reported Spurs have the highest debt in European football at £1.17billion.
Now you can feel for them (or not).

Now that is a shame. I love their commitment to glory.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: sickbeggar on June 07, 2021, 11:04:42 AM
			

			

				How the hell did they end up owing that much. Is the new stadium gold plated?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Brazilian Villain on June 07, 2021, 11:09:50 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on June 07, 2021, 11:00:34 AM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on June 07, 2021, 10:56:18 AM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on June 07, 2021, 10:43:47 AM
Spurs will either have no money or no Kane. I feel for them.

Spurs will have no Kane and still no money. It's reported Spurs have the highest debt in European football at £1.17billion.
Now you can feel for them (or not).

Now that is a shame. I love their commitment to glory.

Audere est Facere! 

Unfortunately it doesn't look like it's working out for them. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: London Villan on June 07, 2021, 11:25:23 AM
			

			

				A big hole in their stadium plan will be the reduction in the NFL games in the UK for the next couple of years. The ultimate ambition was to get a team there. That's not going to happen any time soon.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Damo70 on June 07, 2021, 11:32:43 AM
			

			

				I don't think West Ham will have such a good season as last season this time around.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: algy on June 07, 2021, 12:17:07 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: sickbeggar on June 07, 2021, 06:47:27 AM
Long way to go before I start making any predictions of top 6. Lets get a squad in this summer that can cope with a few injuries first, and then see what the teams above us do in the transfer market. 10 points more would have got us 6th on last season so that's gettable. Of the team above us.

Leeds - You'd think they may drop back a bit after being last season's surprise package but you never know with Biesla. Probably won't be on a spending spree
West Ham - gotta be the one team we should overhaul. Won't be spending big
Everton - they have the money, have they the manager?
Tottenham/Arsenal - both of them seem in a long drawn out decline. if they decide to back their managers they could block our progress. You'd think the penny would drop that they're in danger of being overtaken but with their owners who knows.
Leicester- should stay above us with a fit first team but vardy's nearly finished, a few injures or big transfers out who knows. Rumoured to be after Tammy which would pose a problem.
Depending on how the summer goes ...

Minimum: We shouldn't lose ground on any sides below us (allowing for one club having a freakishly good season - West Ham this year, Sheffield Utd the season before).  That, plus a top half finish.
Satisfactory season: 8th place.
Good season: 6th/7th place or win a cup (and finish bottom half, but not in danger of relegation)
Amazing season: 4th/5th place or win a cup (and finish top half)
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Rigadon on June 07, 2021, 12:29:03 PM
			

			

				Depends on whether a ‘satisfactory’ or even ‘good’ season will be enough for us to keep our best player/s.  It’s looking good at the moment re transfers with Emi#2 and Ward-Prouse potentially.  The hope is that it continues and translates into a ‘great’ season.  
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on June 07, 2021, 01:32:19 PM
			

			

				I don't think winning a cup should be considered enough to offset a finish lower than this season.

Minimum is top half, no concessions.
Good is top 6.

A cup win or even a final would be great on top of that would be fantastic but the momentum of moving up the league is what really matters for next season. Remember it's a world cup year so lots of players will be moving next year as a result of that. Winning the league cup would be good but wouldn't give us the chance to go after players who'd stood out in the tournament or who were moving to ensure a place in their international squads afterwards. Top 6 would mean we'd be a serious chance for champions league places the year after and that's when the world class options start to become viable.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: London Villan on June 07, 2021, 01:49:14 PM
			

			

				If we spend £100m top six is the target - minimum.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Steve67 on June 07, 2021, 03:08:25 PM
			

			

				Win the FA Cup and top 8 please. No pressure! 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SamTheMouse on June 07, 2021, 04:06:57 PM
			

			

				Cups are a lottery. It's the league I'm interested in.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: CT on June 07, 2021, 04:40:36 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Dr Butler on June 07, 2021, 10:44:23 AM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on June 07, 2021, 10:43:47 AM
Spurs will either have no money or no Kane. I feel for them.

I fucking don't :)

UTV
The Doc

Me neither. They were one of the first circling vultures when Xia had us dangling over the edge in 2018.

Fuck Spurs with a pitchfork.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Richard E on June 07, 2021, 04:48:28 PM
			

			

				And a pitchfork which is on fire at that.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: jwarry on June 07, 2021, 04:52:02 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Richard E on June 07, 2021, 04:48:28 PM
And a pitchfork which is on fire at that.

And we should make Levy do the walk of shame 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: not3bad on June 07, 2021, 10:43:00 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: SamTheMouse on June 07, 2021, 04:06:57 PM
Cups are a lottery. It's the league I'm interested in.

Nah it's the cup for me. I want to live to see Aston Villa lift the FA Cup.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on June 07, 2021, 10:52:27 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: London Villan on June 07, 2021, 01:49:14 PM
If we spend £100m top six is the target - minimum.

I'd be happy with 7th or 8th personally.

Seems Leicester are signing a good DM from Lille (who've just won the French league of course) and Edouard from Celtic for 18m so 5th place team is strengthening what is already a very good first 11.

Our target really needs to be finishing above two of Everton, West Ham, Arsenal and Spurs next season. And Leeds of couse. If we do that we'll certainly be in the top 10.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: cdbearsfan on June 07, 2021, 10:54:35 PM
			

			

				I really wouldn't be happy with 7th or 8th. What's the point of that? Top six, minimum. I'll settle for finishing lower if we win a trophy, admittedly. So long as we are comfortable all season, at least.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on June 08, 2021, 04:31:59 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: CT on June 07, 2021, 04:40:36 PM
Quote from: Dr Butler on June 07, 2021, 10:44:23 AM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on June 07, 2021, 10:43:47 AM
Spurs will either have no money or no Kane. I feel for them.

I fucking don't :)

UTV
The Doc

Me neither. They were one of the first circling vultures when Xia had us dangling over the edge in 2018.

Fuck Spurs with a pitchfork.

But Spurs are a team that is committed to playing football 'the right way' (last manager: Jose Mourinho); that are all about glory (last league title: 1961, one of two league titles in their history); that fill pints up from the bottom of the glass. Most of all, unlike other teams, they have a stadium.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: dcdavecollett on June 10, 2021, 12:58:27 AM
			

			

				I imagine that eighth will be the minimum requirement, and top six a sign of real progress -something that Purslow mentions in many of his interviews.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: sid1964 on June 10, 2021, 07:01:38 AM
			

			

				I would imagine that next season we will need to qualify for European football, if we don't I can imagine a few of our young guns deciding that they may want to move on to teams that are in European competition.


			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: DrGonzo on June 10, 2021, 07:27:35 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on June 07, 2021, 10:54:35 PM
I really wouldn't be happy with 7th or 8th. What's the point of that? Top six, minimum. I'll settle for finishing lower if we win a trophy, admittedly. So long as we are comfortable all season, at least.

 “I am never one to temper ambitions because our ambitions are to keep progressing and growing but I think to climb from 17th to 11th is a lot easier than to climb from 11th to the top six or seven because of the size of the clubs who are there.”

“We have now got the youngest average age group on the longest-term contracts in the Premier League. That is what we want to build on ... We know these players will get better, getting them on longer-term contracts is really important. It is all right bringing in young players and building their value but I’m hopeful players will come to Aston Villa, like Ezri Konsa, and spend six, seven or eight years here. If they are doing that it means the club is progressing. That is an important part of the plan moving forward.”

Prepare for disappointment, hope for success.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: The Edge on June 10, 2021, 07:48:30 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on June 08, 2021, 04:31:59 AM
Quote from: CT on June 07, 2021, 04:40:36 PM
Quote from: Dr Butler on June 07, 2021, 10:44:23 AM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on June 07, 2021, 10:43:47 AM
Spurs will either have no money or no Kane. I feel for them.

I fucking don't :)

UTV
The Doc

Me neither. They were one of the first circling vultures when Xia had us dangling over the edge in 2018.

Fuck Spurs with a pitchfork.

But Spurs are a team that is committed to playing football 'the right way' (last manager: Jose Mourinho); that are all about glory (last league title: 1961, one of two league titles in their history); that fill pints up from the bottom of the glass. Most of all, unlike other teams, they have a stadium.
Spurs were part of a ruthless cartel that attempted to hijack the game and ruin it for everyone outside their cosy little arrangement. I have zero sympathy for their plight. The fans? Maybe just a little bit. We have to be equally ruthless now in our pursuit of the elite. Spurs are in financial difficulties and will have to sell Kane to help balance the books. We should look at finishing above the arrogant tossers. Fuck em. Top 6 is now achievable and CL football will be the next goal after that. Leicester City have proved it's achievable. We are a bigger club with access to huge resources. Time to think big. Time to act big. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ADVILLAFAN on June 10, 2021, 08:14:47 AM
			

			

				Can I just say, that i think Sexual Ealing was joking about feeling sorry for them.

Hopefully if they do have time sell players like Kane and Son, they can pick up top replacements like Onomah and Dawkins. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: jwarry on June 10, 2021, 09:17:08 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: The Edge on June 10, 2021, 07:48:30 AM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on June 08, 2021, 04:31:59 AM
Quote from: CT on June 07, 2021, 04:40:36 PM
Quote from: Dr Butler on June 07, 2021, 10:44:23 AM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on June 07, 2021, 10:43:47 AM
Spurs will either have no money or no Kane. I feel for them.

I fucking don't :)

UTV
The Doc

Me neither. They were one of the first circling vultures when Xia had us dangling over the edge in 2018.

Fuck Spurs with a pitchfork.

But Spurs are a team that is committed to playing football 'the right way' (last manager: Jose Mourinho); that are all about glory (last league title: 1961, one of two league titles in their history); that fill pints up from the bottom of the glass. Most of all, unlike other teams, they have a stadium.
Spurs were part of a ruthless cartel that attempted to hijack the game and ruin it for everyone outside their cosy little arrangement. I have zero sympathy for their plight. The fans? Maybe just a little bit. We have to be equally ruthless now in our pursuit of the elite. Spurs are in financial difficulties and will have to sell Kane to help balance the books. We should look at finishing above the arrogant tossers. Fuck em. Top 6 is now achievable and CL football will be the next goal after that. Leicester City have proved it's achievable. We are a bigger club with access to huge resources. Time to think big. Time to act big. 

Is the right answer
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on June 10, 2021, 10:06:09 AM
			

			

				I can confirm that I wasn't being serious.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on June 10, 2021, 10:19:28 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on June 10, 2021, 10:06:09 AM
I can confirm that I wasn't being serious.
are you ever?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on June 10, 2021, 10:23:39 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: ChicagoLion on June 10, 2021, 10:19:28 AM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on June 10, 2021, 10:06:09 AM
I can confirm that I wasn't being serious.
are you ever?

When I'm replying to you I am.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: The Edge on June 10, 2021, 11:41:47 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on June 10, 2021, 10:06:09 AM
I can confirm that I wasn't being serious.
Your question about Spurs may have been tongue in cheek but feelings about them are genuine. Fuck em. With the rusty end of a trumpet. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Hockley Lion on June 10, 2021, 10:39:13 PM
			

			

				Spurs are the equivalent of a rusty old yellow Ford Cortina GT with go faster stripes, alloy wheels and a whip aerial. Flattering to deceive. Just scrap it FFS! 😂

No offense to anyone still driving one 😎.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on June 10, 2021, 10:49:39 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on June 10, 2021, 10:23:39 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on June 10, 2021, 10:19:28 AM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on June 10, 2021, 10:06:09 AM
I can confirm that I wasn't being serious.
are you ever?

When I'm replying to you I am.
 sad
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: olaftab on June 10, 2021, 11:40:35 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Hockley Lion on June 10, 2021, 10:39:13 PM
Spurs are the equivalent of a rusty old yellow Ford Cortina GT with go faster stripes, alloy wheels and a whip aerial. Flattering to deceive. Just scrap it FFS! 😂

No offense to anyone still driving one 😎.
Are we talking about MK2 or 4 as 3 was a bit shit and I am too young to remember MK1?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on June 11, 2021, 04:30:48 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: olaftab on June 10, 2021, 11:40:35 PM
Quote from: Hockley Lion on June 10, 2021, 10:39:13 PM
Spurs are the equivalent of a rusty old yellow Ford Cortina GT with go faster stripes, alloy wheels and a whip aerial. Flattering to deceive. Just scrap it FFS! 😂

No offense to anyone still driving one 😎.
Are we talking about MK2 or 4 as 3 was a bit shit and I am too young to remember MK1?

Having a body that drives women crazy is like having a green Ford Cortina MK 4. You've either got one or you haven't.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on June 11, 2021, 07:42:26 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Hockley Lion on June 10, 2021, 10:39:13 PM
Spurs are the equivalent of a rusty old yellow Ford Cortina GT with go faster stripes, alloy wheels and a whip aerial. Flattering to deceive. Just scrap it FFS! 😂

No offense to anyone still driving one 😎.

Lucky if you are they’re worth a fortune now
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Villa Lew on June 11, 2021, 12:47:14 PM
			

			

				Just seen him at the Test Match.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Dr Butler on June 11, 2021, 01:02:56 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: olaftab on June 10, 2021, 11:40:35 PM
Quote from: Hockley Lion on June 10, 2021, 10:39:13 PM
Spurs are the equivalent of a rusty old yellow Ford Cortina GT with go faster stripes, alloy wheels and a whip aerial. Flattering to deceive. Just scrap it FFS! 😂

No offense to anyone still driving one 😎.
Are we talking about MK2 or 4 as 3 was a bit shit and I am too young to remember MK1?

MK2 Ford Cortina 1600 GT....I had one when I was 18...memories of ice on the inside of the windowscreen and you could open it and start it with any type of car key too :)

UTV
The Doc
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Meanwood Villa on June 11, 2021, 01:29:58 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Villa Lew on June 11, 2021, 12:47:14 PM
Just seen him at the Test Match.

Any idea who he was with? 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ADVILLAFAN on June 11, 2021, 01:42:22 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Meanwood Villa on June 11, 2021, 01:29:58 PM
Quote from: Villa Lew on June 11, 2021, 12:47:14 PM
Just seen him at the Test Match.

Any idea who he was with? 

Mbappe? 🤞
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: mr underhill on June 11, 2021, 01:46:48 PM
			

			

				a geezer in a suit
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: LeeB on June 11, 2021, 01:47:39 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: ADVILLAFAN on June 11, 2021, 01:42:22 PM
Quote from: Meanwood Villa on June 11, 2021, 01:29:58 PM
Quote from: Villa Lew on June 11, 2021, 12:47:14 PM
Just seen him at the Test Match.

Any idea who he was with? 

Mbappe? 🤞

Mbappe loves his cricket, they call him the French Chris Tavare and he's reportedly a decent military medium paced bowler too.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Meanwood Villa on June 11, 2021, 01:48:47 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: ADVILLAFAN on June 11, 2021, 01:42:22 PM
Quote from: Meanwood Villa on June 11, 2021, 01:29:58 PM
Quote from: Villa Lew on June 11, 2021, 12:47:14 PM
Just seen him at the Test Match.

Any idea who he was with? 

Mbappe? 🤞

That's the one. He was definitely signing something as well.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: LeeB on June 11, 2021, 01:52:25 PM
			

			

				Does anyone remember back I the late 90's when we were tenuous linked with the great Christian Vieri, and it was suggested it might be a goer as he loved playing cricket?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on June 11, 2021, 01:53:25 PM
			

			

				I have no idea how much Dean is being paid, but I'm sure it must be enough for him to stop wearing those white 'no-iron' M&S shirts on a matchday. That is my only criticism of him. And the substitutions. And beginning the answer to every question with 'yeah, no...'

I do love him though.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Moonraker on June 11, 2021, 02:21:03 PM
			

			

				See Jacks picked up the "Yeah no" now, on that Sky interview must have come up 4 times
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: OCD on June 11, 2021, 02:25:02 PM
			

			

				Is it a Brummie thing? 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Hillbilly on June 11, 2021, 02:38:54 PM
			

			

				It’s definitely an Aussie thing. Yeah no and no yeah.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on June 11, 2021, 02:40:42 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: OCD on June 11, 2021, 02:25:02 PM
Is it a Brummie thing? 

I think so, I find myself doing it at times and hate it.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Moonraker on June 11, 2021, 02:55:31 PM
			

			

				Anther Aussie thing tends to be starting any sentence with " Ah look...." and ending it with upward intonation to turn everything into a question. See Ricky Ponting and his ilk being unable to be interviewed unless they can start with "Look"
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Hockley Lion on June 11, 2021, 03:09:06 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: olaftab on June 10, 2021, 11:40:35 PM
Quote from: Hockley Lion on June 10, 2021, 10:39:13 PM
Spurs are the equivalent of a rusty old yellow Ford Cortina GT with go faster stripes, alloy wheels and a whip aerial. Flattering to deceive. Just scrap it FFS! 😂

No offense to anyone still driving one 😎.
Are we talking about MK2 or 4 as 3 was a bit shit and I am too young to remember MK1?

MK3 is the one I can't get out of my head unfortunately. Lol.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: LeeB on June 11, 2021, 03:15:17 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Moonraker on June 11, 2021, 02:55:31 PM
Anther Aussie thing tends to be starting any sentence with " Ah look...." and ending it with upward intonation to turn everything into a question. See Ricky Ponting and his ilk being unable to be interviewed unless they can start with "Look"

And "Listen.."
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Percy McCarthy on June 11, 2021, 04:23:07 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Hockley Lion on June 11, 2021, 03:09:06 PM
Quote from: olaftab on June 10, 2021, 11:40:35 PM
Quote from: Hockley Lion on June 10, 2021, 10:39:13 PM
Spurs are the equivalent of a rusty old yellow Ford Cortina GT with go faster stripes, alloy wheels and a whip aerial. Flattering to deceive. Just scrap it FFS! 😂

No offense to anyone still driving one 😎.
Are we talking about MK2 or 4 as 3 was a bit shit and I am too young to remember MK1?

MK3 is the one I can't get out of my head unfortunately. Lol.

Bloody hell, it’ll be Kylie puns now.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: CT on June 11, 2021, 04:29:41 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Percy McCarthy on June 11, 2021, 04:23:07 PM
Quote from: Hockley Lion on June 11, 2021, 03:09:06 PM
Quote from: olaftab on June 10, 2021, 11:40:35 PM
Quote from: Hockley Lion on June 10, 2021, 10:39:13 PM
Spurs are the equivalent of a rusty old yellow Ford Cortina GT with go faster stripes, alloy wheels and a whip aerial. Flattering to deceive. Just scrap it FFS! 😂

No offense to anyone still driving one 😎.
Are we talking about MK2 or 4 as 3 was a bit shit and I am too young to remember MK1?

MK3 is the one I can't get out of my head unfortunately. Lol.

Bloody hell, it’ll be Kylie puns now.

I think if you put your hand on your heart mate, you’ll know it won’t happen. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Percy McCarthy on June 11, 2021, 04:30:33 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: CT on June 11, 2021, 04:29:41 PM
Quote from: Percy McCarthy on June 11, 2021, 04:23:07 PM
Quote from: Hockley Lion on June 11, 2021, 03:09:06 PM
Quote from: olaftab on June 10, 2021, 11:40:35 PM
Quote from: Hockley Lion on June 10, 2021, 10:39:13 PM
Spurs are the equivalent of a rusty old yellow Ford Cortina GT with go faster stripes, alloy wheels and a whip aerial. Flattering to deceive. Just scrap it FFS! 😂

No offense to anyone still driving one 😎.
Are we talking about MK2 or 4 as 3 was a bit shit and I am too young to remember MK1?

MK3 is the one I can't get out of my head unfortunately. Lol.

Bloody hell, it’ll be Kylie puns now.

I think if you put your hand on your heart mate, you’ll know it won’t happen.

I should be so lucky.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on June 11, 2021, 05:03:01 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Percy McCarthy on June 11, 2021, 04:30:33 PM
Quote from: CT on June 11, 2021, 04:29:41 PM
Quote from: Percy McCarthy on June 11, 2021, 04:23:07 PM
Quote from: Hockley Lion on June 11, 2021, 03:09:06 PM
Quote from: olaftab on June 10, 2021, 11:40:35 PM
Quote from: Hockley Lion on June 10, 2021, 10:39:13 PM
Spurs are the equivalent of a rusty old yellow Ford Cortina GT with go faster stripes, alloy wheels and a whip aerial. Flattering to deceive. Just scrap it FFS! 😂

No offense to anyone still driving one 😎.
Are we talking about MK2 or 4 as 3 was a bit shit and I am too young to remember MK1?

MK3 is the one I can't get out of my head unfortunately. Lol.

Bloody hell, it’ll be Kylie puns now.

I think if you put your hand on your heart mate, you’ll know it won’t happen.

I should be so lucky.

My head is spinning.

Around about now someone will realise.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: LeeB on June 11, 2021, 05:07:03 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Drummond on June 11, 2021, 05:03:01 PM
Quote from: Percy McCarthy on June 11, 2021, 04:30:33 PM
Quote from: CT on June 11, 2021, 04:29:41 PM
Quote from: Percy McCarthy on June 11, 2021, 04:23:07 PM
Quote from: Hockley Lion on June 11, 2021, 03:09:06 PM
Quote from: olaftab on June 10, 2021, 11:40:35 PM
Quote from: Hockley Lion on June 10, 2021, 10:39:13 PM
Spurs are the equivalent of a rusty old yellow Ford Cortina GT with go faster stripes, alloy wheels and a whip aerial. Flattering to deceive. Just scrap it FFS! 😂

No offense to anyone still driving one 😎.
Are we talking about MK2 or 4 as 3 was a bit shit and I am too young to remember MK1?

MK3 is the one I can't get out of my head unfortunately. Lol.

Bloody hell, it’ll be Kylie puns now.

I think if you put your hand on your heart mate, you’ll know it won’t happen.

I should be so lucky.

My head is spinning.

Around about now someone will realise.

What's up pal? You can confide in me
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on June 11, 2021, 05:10:39 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: LeeB on June 11, 2021, 05:07:03 PM
Quote from: Drummond on June 11, 2021, 05:03:01 PM
Quote from: Percy McCarthy on June 11, 2021, 04:30:33 PM
Quote from: CT on June 11, 2021, 04:29:41 PM
Quote from: Percy McCarthy on June 11, 2021, 04:23:07 PM
Quote from: Hockley Lion on June 11, 2021, 03:09:06 PM
Quote from: olaftab on June 10, 2021, 11:40:35 PM
Quote from: Hockley Lion on June 10, 2021, 10:39:13 PM
Spurs are the equivalent of a rusty old yellow Ford Cortina GT with go faster stripes, alloy wheels and a whip aerial. Flattering to deceive. Just scrap it FFS! 😂

No offense to anyone still driving one 😎.
Are we talking about MK2 or 4 as 3 was a bit shit and I am too young to remember MK1?

MK3 is the one I can't get out of my head unfortunately. Lol.

Bloody hell, it’ll be Kylie puns now.

I think if you put your hand on your heart mate, you’ll know it won’t happen.

I should be so lucky.

My head is spinning.

Around about now someone will realise.

What's up pal? You can confide in me

Come into my world and I'll tell you.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Tayls_7 on June 11, 2021, 05:22:11 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Drummond on June 11, 2021, 05:10:39 PM
Quote from: LeeB on June 11, 2021, 05:07:03 PM
Quote from: Drummond on June 11, 2021, 05:03:01 PM
Quote from: Percy McCarthy on June 11, 2021, 04:30:33 PM
Quote from: CT on June 11, 2021, 04:29:41 PM
Quote from: Percy McCarthy on June 11, 2021, 04:23:07 PM
Quote from: Hockley Lion on June 11, 2021, 03:09:06 PM
Quote from: olaftab on June 10, 2021, 11:40:35 PM
Quote from: Hockley Lion on June 10, 2021, 10:39:13 PM
Spurs are the equivalent of a rusty old yellow Ford Cortina GT with go faster stripes, alloy wheels and a whip aerial. Flattering to deceive. Just scrap it FFS! 😂

No offense to anyone still driving one 😎.
Are we talking about MK2 or 4 as 3 was a bit shit and I am too young to remember MK1?

MK3 is the one I can't get out of my head unfortunately. Lol.

Bloody hell, it’ll be Kylie puns now.

I think if you put your hand on your heart mate, you’ll know it won’t happen.

I should be so lucky.

My head is spinning.

Around about now someone will realise.

What's up pal? You can confide in me

Come into my world and I'll tell you.

This Kylie punathon is all done especially for you. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Kevin Dawson on June 11, 2021, 05:27:04 PM
			

			

				Well, Better the Devil you know....
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on June 11, 2021, 05:29:28 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Kevin Dawson on June 11, 2021, 05:27:04 PM
Well, Better the Devil you know....

What? On a night like this?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: JD on June 12, 2021, 08:45:19 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Hillbilly on June 11, 2021, 02:38:54 PM
It’s definitely an Aussie thing. Yeah no and no yeah.

It's a Kiwi thing not Oz. Wanting to agree but disagree and not wanting to offend.

Been a thing for years over here and Oz take the piss out of NZ for it.  
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: OCD on June 12, 2021, 05:25:09 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Moonraker on June 11, 2021, 02:55:31 PM
Anther Aussie thing tends to be starting any sentence with " Ah look...." and ending it with upward intonation to turn everything into a question. See Ricky Ponting and his ilk being unable to be interviewed unless they can start with "Look"

The upward intonation is definitely an Aussie thing. I watched the Junior version of Australian MasterChef a few months back and the one kid really wound me up because he did this so much. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: clash city rocker on June 12, 2021, 10:34:16 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: OCD on June 12, 2021, 05:25:09 PM
Quote from: Moonraker on June 11, 2021, 02:55:31 PM
Anther Aussie thing tends to be starting any sentence with " Ah look...." and ending it with upward intonation to turn everything into a question. See Ricky Ponting and his ilk being unable to be interviewed unless they can start with "Look"

The upward intonation is definitely an Aussie thing. I watched the Junior version of Australian MasterChef a few months back and the one kid really wound me up because he did this so much.

A junior version of Australian masterchef ? What the fuck is the world coming to ? Has the worlds TV given up on making programmes? I cant believe it. I just cant believe it.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: robbo1874 on June 12, 2021, 11:16:30 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: OCD on June 12, 2021, 05:25:09 PM
Quote from: Moonraker on June 11, 2021, 02:55:31 PM
Anther Aussie thing tends to be starting any sentence with " Ah look...." and ending it with upward intonation to turn everything into a question. See Ricky Ponting and his ilk being unable to be interviewed unless they can start with "Look"

The upward intonation is definitely an Aussie thing. I watched the Junior version of Australian MasterChef a few months back and the one kid really wound me up because he did this so much. 
what’s more annoying is some Poms who’ve been here a while do it too? 😉

Look, I think Aussies saying Look is more annoying though

And the pointless use and mispronunciation of literally really winds me up, liderally!
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on June 13, 2021, 09:20:01 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: clash city rocker on June 12, 2021, 10:34:16 PM
Quote from: OCD on June 12, 2021, 05:25:09 PM
Quote from: Moonraker on June 11, 2021, 02:55:31 PM
Anther Aussie thing tends to be starting any sentence with " Ah look...." and ending it with upward intonation to turn everything into a question. See Ricky Ponting and his ilk being unable to be interviewed unless they can start with "Look"

The upward intonation is definitely an Aussie thing. I watched the Junior version of Australian MasterChef a few months back and the one kid really wound me up because he did this so much.

A junior version of Australian masterchef ? What the fuck is the world coming to ? Has the worlds TV given up on making programmes? I cant believe it. I just cant believe it.

Well we have a version over here so not sure why the Aussies shouldn’t be allowed one too?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: cdbearsfan on June 13, 2021, 11:05:56 AM
			

			

				Assume the Aussie version is just barbecues?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: LeeB on June 13, 2021, 11:29:26 AM
			

			

				"Ar look mate, listen, what I've done here is a modern twist on the classic barbie. There's an extra shrimp and I've marinaded them in Fosters"

"That's amazing mate!"

*cue didgeridoo sounds*
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: mr underhill on June 13, 2021, 02:50:49 PM
			

			

				looks like we overdid the Aussie.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Hillbilly on June 13, 2021, 03:59:25 PM
			

			

				Maaaaate.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: OCD on June 13, 2021, 06:44:27 PM
			

			

				Lee Mack on the Aussie accent - 

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ROBBO on June 14, 2021, 01:28:34 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: OCD on June 12, 2021, 05:25:09 PM
Quote from: Moonraker on June 11, 2021, 02:55:31 PM
Anther Aussie thing tends to be starting any sentence with " Ah look...." and ending it with upward intonation to turn everything into a question. See Ricky Ponting and his ilk being unable to be interviewed unless they can start with "Look"

The upward intonation is definitely an Aussie thing. I watched the Junior version of Australian MasterChef a few months back and the one kid really wound me up because he did this so much. 
Quote from: JD on June 12, 2021, 08:45:19 AM
Quote from: Hillbilly on June 11, 2021, 02:38:54 PM
It’s definitely an Aussie thing. Yeah no and no yeah.

It's a Kiwi thing not Oz. Wanting to agree but disagree and not wanting to offend.

Been a thing for years over here and Oz take the piss out of NZ for it.  

Quite right too.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Dante Lavelli on June 14, 2021, 10:13:22 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Hockley Lion on June 10, 2021, 10:39:13 PM
Spurs are the equivalent of a rusty old yellow Ford Cortina GT with go faster stripes, alloy wheels and a whip aerial. Flattering to deceive. Just scrap it FFS! 😂

No offense to anyone still driving one 😎.

Old news, but i think they’re the opposite (I know nothing about cars).  They’re the guy that has an amazing car but cannot afford the petrol so it sits on his drive and rusts.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Moonraker on June 21, 2021, 04:00:37 PM
			

			

				Just watched The Holy Trinity on YouTube. Seems to be fairly new, and fronted by a Canadian guy, but did a very intelligent 20 minutes on Dean Smith. Well worth a watch.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: dave.woodhall on June 21, 2021, 06:13:12 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Moonraker on June 21, 2021, 04:00:37 PM
Just watched The Holy Trinity on YouTube. Seems to be fairly new, and fronted by a Canadian guy, but did a very intelligent 20 minutes on Dean Smith. Well worth a watch.

There's only one man who should front a show with that title.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: AllanW on June 21, 2021, 06:23:13 PM
			

			

				Okay which f***er got me to type Holy Trinity into the Youtube search box? I need a shower ...
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: chrisw1 on June 21, 2021, 07:01:50 PM
			

			

				Didn't bring up anything pornographic for me Allan.  Maybe there's some form of AI based on your previous history?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on June 22, 2021, 09:00:57 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: chrisw1 on June 21, 2021, 07:01:50 PM
Didn't bring up anything pornographic for me Allan.  Maybe there's some form of AI based on your previous history?

Haha, that sounds like disappointment! 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: chrisw1 on June 22, 2021, 09:15:21 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Drummond on June 22, 2021, 09:00:57 AM
Quote from: chrisw1 on June 21, 2021, 07:01:50 PM
Didn't bring up anything pornographic for me Allan.  Maybe there's some form of AI based on your previous history?

Haha, that sounds like disappointment! 

"I was looking for a Villa pod, honestly...."   

"You mean there's a Villa pod called Big&Bouncy.com?"  - Just doesn't cut it.  A Villa pod called "Holy Trinity" would be much more plausable.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: eamonn on June 22, 2021, 05:34:57 PM
			

			

				Reminds me of that time someone from Villatalk took a screenshot and posted it, not realising that in the corner of his screen; a recent, dubious search term was on display...
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: richtheholtender on June 26, 2021, 11:13:09 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Moonraker on June 21, 2021, 04:00:37 PM
Just watched The Holy Trinity on YouTube. Seems to be fairly new, and fronted by a Canadian guy, but did a very intelligent 20 minutes on Dean Smith. Well worth a watch.



He’s very good. I like his recent one on Jack and relating him to the whiskey 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: robbo1874 on June 27, 2021, 01:21:37 AM
			

			

				Listened to a couple of his pods. Good content, but he just seems a bit weird, an obsessive with too much money perhaps? That model of VP he’s got must have cost a fortune 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: N'ZMAV on June 27, 2021, 07:16:38 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: eamonn on June 22, 2021, 05:34:57 PM
Reminds me of that time someone from Villatalk took a screenshot and posted it, not realising that in the corner of his screen; a recent, dubious search term was on display...
 Pic.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: robbo1874 on June 27, 2021, 08:15:03 AM
			

			

				Actually, forget what I said about the VP model, it looks a bit naff - no roofs on the stands. Still wonder how he got it in his ‘parlour’ though.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Moonraker on July 04, 2021, 11:48:43 AM
			

			

				Think he said he built it himself, took him 4 Months. Shall we say he is an obsessive character? Wonder what or who he keeps in the basement. Its not you is it TV, holed up there for years?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on July 04, 2021, 01:45:38 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: eamonn on June 22, 2021, 05:34:57 PM
Reminds me of that time someone from Villatalk took a screenshot and posted it, not realising that in the corner of his screen; a recent, dubious search term was on display...

*cough* Demitri_c *cough* :)
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Toronto Villa on July 04, 2021, 02:03:31 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Moonraker on July 04, 2021, 11:48:43 AM
Think he said he built it himself, took him 4 Months. Shall we say he is an obsessive character? Wonder what or who he keeps in the basement. Its not you is it TV, holed up there for years?

Haha no, unless I turned into a while bloke over the past 23 years I’ve been here. I wonder who that is. I’ll be honest I’ve never really got in with Villa fans in Toronto. Mainly because I never lived in the city which is where they get meet up and with young kids/work hard to commit. He could be anywhere mind you if he is in Canada.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Moonraker on July 04, 2021, 04:14:04 PM
			

			

				Hi TV, think he said he was from Toronto but I know that is one big place.  Met a few people from your city, all great people, the one bloke we know well runs the big real estate business there (he says it is the biggest). PM me if you think you may know him.  
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Toronto Villa on July 04, 2021, 07:13:09 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Moonraker on July 04, 2021, 04:14:04 PM
Hi TV, think he said he was from Toronto but I know that is one big place.  Met a few people from your city, all great people, the one bloke we know well runs the big real estate business there (he says it is the biggest). PM me if you think you may know him.  

Mate I don't. Just the 6 million or so of us here in the Greater Toronto Area. He seems decent enough a bloke. Didn't strike me immediately as having a Canadian accent, but granted I didn't watch a lot of the video. Yeh send me a PM about the other stuff. Curious who this real estate bloke is.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on July 07, 2021, 04:54:02 PM
			

			

				I've just seen that this is Smith's 1000th day in charge of the Villa. Here's to another 1000.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 07, 2021, 06:19:53 PM
			

			

				Hear hear.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: eamonn on July 08, 2021, 12:36:22 AM
			

			

				Hope Netflix are going to reach out to him for ideas on it. Nick Cave's 10,000 Days On Earth had Kylie and Ray Winston pop into the back of his car. They could reprise their roles for Deano.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: BC Villain on July 15, 2021, 10:04:05 PM
			

			

				Never spilled a drop of his pint either

https://twitter.com/AVFCTheReligion/status/1415574633668087809?s=19
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: eamonn on July 16, 2021, 10:42:04 AM
			

			

				Ha...he diplomatically smiled instead of joining-in on the "Fcuk the Blues" harmony line  ;D
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on July 16, 2021, 04:02:03 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: eamonn on July 16, 2021, 10:42:04 AM
Ha...he diplomatically smiled instead of joining-in on the "Fcuk the Blues" harmony line  ;D

He knew what was coming 
I thought he handled it really well
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Hookeysmith on July 16, 2021, 08:06:53 PM
			

			

				Funny that we respect him for not saying it yet the other lot would revell in it if their current moron did
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Nev on July 16, 2021, 09:07:26 PM
			

			

				And therein lies the difference. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: N'ZMAV on July 16, 2021, 09:29:40 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Hookeysmith on July 16, 2021, 08:06:53 PM
Funny that we respect him for not saying it yet the other lot would revell in it if their current moron did
 I can’t even remember who their manager is. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: kippaxvilla2 on July 16, 2021, 09:32:22 PM
			

			

				John Bond.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Meanwood Villa on July 16, 2021, 11:45:12 PM
			

			

				Terry Cooper 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on July 17, 2021, 06:16:51 AM
			

			

				Billy Smart
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: London Villan on July 17, 2021, 06:23:12 AM
			

			

				Its a good question, without looking i couldn’t tell you who it is.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on July 17, 2021, 06:45:36 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Hookeysmith on July 16, 2021, 08:06:53 PM
Funny that we respect him for not saying it yet the other lot would revell in it if their current moron did

And given who it is, I'd say it is almost certain he would.

Remember our players stopping him fighting his own teammate?! 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Mister E on July 17, 2021, 08:36:34 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Drummond on July 17, 2021, 06:45:36 AM
Quote from: Hookeysmith on July 16, 2021, 08:06:53 PM
Funny that we respect him for not saying it yet the other lot would revell in it if their current moron did

And given who it is, I'd say it is almost certain he would.

Remember our players stopping him fighting his own teammate?! 
... One of the funniest away wins I can recall in recent years (well in the last 17 years, anyway!); how a team unravelled in front of our eyes. Not just because of the fight but also because of Steven Taylor's on-the-line handball and his pretence that the ball had not hit him.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: JD on July 17, 2021, 08:55:52 AM
			

			

				You mean when he got shot...


			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: kippaxvilla2 on July 17, 2021, 10:18:32 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: London Villan on July 17, 2021, 06:23:12 AM
Its a good question, without looking i couldn’t tell you who it is.

Ian Bowyer.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: dave shelley on July 17, 2021, 10:33:50 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on July 17, 2021, 10:18:32 AM
Quote from: London Villan on July 17, 2021, 06:23:12 AM
Its a good question, without looking i couldn’t tell you who it is.

Ian Bowyer.

*Pedant alert*. Lee Bowyer.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: brian green on July 17, 2021, 10:44:17 AM
			

			

				Lee Van Cleef
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: brian green on July 17, 2021, 10:47:58 AM
			

			

				My son in the movies says there is going to be a biopic of Lee Van Cleef's time at the Sty.  Working title 'A Fistful of Luncheon Vouchers '
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Steve67 on July 17, 2021, 02:21:36 PM
			

			

				Or 'A fistful of Bollocks'.  In reference to his scrap with Dier.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: LeeB on July 17, 2021, 02:35:19 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Steve67 on July 17, 2021, 02:21:36 PM
Or 'A fistful of Bollocks'.  In reference to his scrap with Dier.

Or their badge.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: N'ZMAV on July 18, 2021, 11:03:40 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: brian green on July 17, 2021, 10:44:17 AM
Lee Van Cleef
 isn't he the guy Del, Boycie and Abdul do that diamond smuggling deal with when Slater stitches them up?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Brazilian Villain on July 18, 2021, 01:19:06 PM
			

			

				'How the West Midlands was Lost' (in reference to their dwindling fanbase and general ineptitude).
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: kippaxvilla2 on July 18, 2021, 02:42:04 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: N'ZMAV on July 18, 2021, 11:03:40 AM
Quote from: brian green on July 17, 2021, 10:44:17 AM
Lee Van Cleef
 isn't he the guy Del, Boycie and Abdul do that diamond smuggling deal with when Slater stitches them up?

Hendrick Van Kleefe.  
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on July 21, 2021, 06:50:59 PM
			

			

				Dean will miss tonight’s pre-season friendly as he is isolating with his family.

All the best to Dean and his family.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: N'ZMAV on July 21, 2021, 07:44:27 PM
			

			

				https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57921273
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Steve67 on July 21, 2021, 07:49:21 PM
			

			

				I did wonder why he wasn’t on any of the training pictures on the official site
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Toronto Villa on August 04, 2021, 11:58:15 AM
			

			

				Has to be absolutely gutted today. It’s a profession and he knows good and great players move clubs. It’s part of the business. But in this case he’s been massively let down by Jack. As much as any of us. I hope he finds a way to win without him now. Otherwise this wonderful Villa fan as manager and captain period of history we all loved will be over quickly. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Monty on August 04, 2021, 12:01:34 PM
			

			

				Yep, he's going to have to improve that 'without Grealish' win percentage very soon.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: OzVilla on August 04, 2021, 12:09:07 PM
			

			

				It’ll make him or break him this.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Footy-Vill on August 04, 2021, 04:45:06 PM
			

			

				Finally Smith can play his own game and not have to Taylor for a unique talent. So that's with high tempo and pressing. Remember  the last 10 minutes Vs Fulham that's  a perfect example with the wide forwards of Bailey and Buendia getting goals and a threat for a whole 90 minutes. 
That's what I'm hoping
Counter attack and with the ball going forward very strong 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: West Derby Villan on August 04, 2021, 08:42:03 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Footy-Vill on August 04, 2021, 04:45:06 PM
Finally Smith can play his own game and not have to Taylor for a unique talent. So that's with high tempo and pressing. Remember  the last 10 minutes Vs Fulham that's  a perfect example with the wide forwards of Bailey and Buendia getting goals and a threat for a whole 90 minutes. 
That's what I'm hoping
Counter attack and with the ball going forward very strong


My thinking exactly FV
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: TheMalandro on August 04, 2021, 08:45:14 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: West Derby Villan on August 04, 2021, 08:42:03 PM
Quote from: Footy-Vill on August 04, 2021, 04:45:06 PM
Finally Smith can play his own game and not have to Taylor for a unique talent. So that's with high tempo and pressing. Remember  the last 10 minutes Vs Fulham that's  a perfect example with the wide forwards of Bailey and Buendia getting goals and a threat for a whole 90 minutes. 
That's what I'm hoping
Counter attack and with the ball going forward very strong


My thinking exactly FV

That's a great point, Grealish was bigger than the manager.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ian. on August 04, 2021, 08:49:20 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: TheMalandro on August 04, 2021, 08:45:14 PM
Quote from: West Derby Villan on August 04, 2021, 08:42:03 PM
Quote from: Footy-Vill on August 04, 2021, 04:45:06 PM
Finally Smith can play his own game and not have to Taylor for a unique talent. So that's with high tempo and pressing. Remember  the last 10 minutes Vs Fulham that's  a perfect example with the wide forwards of Bailey and Buendia getting goals and a threat for a whole 90 minutes. 
That's what I'm hoping
Counter attack and with the ball going forward very strong


My thinking exactly FV

That's a great point, Grealish was bigger than the manager.

It is a very valid point Footy. I’m absolutely gutted to see him go, but with the right balance and quality we really could become a team.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: andyh on August 05, 2021, 10:08:40 PM
			

			

				I fully understand and appreciate that Smith has massive credit in the bank.
But, I think he is under huge pressure, probably for the first time here, to deliver.
Losing Terry and that other bloke is a big blow, and it’s proven that when certain players aren’t available we struggle to get results.
We have now spent a shit load of money to fix that problem, and hopefully a few more quid will be spent before the season kicks off.

He has a a tremendous squad at his disposal. Probably the most diversely gifted squad the club has ever had. I think he just has to get a tune out of this fiddle, and quickly.

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Villan82 on August 05, 2021, 10:19:06 PM
			

			

				I have criticised Dean here in the past but I fully support him here for the season ahead. The other bloke has let him down - I wonder if the other bloke genuinely was injured last season or was he protecting himself? He seemed so bored in the stand.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: PeterWithe on August 05, 2021, 10:23:37 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Villan82 on August 05, 2021, 10:19:06 PM
 He seemed so bored in the stand.

To be fair we were useless without him, I was just as bored most games
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Footy-Vill on August 05, 2021, 10:23:53 PM
			

			

				I would actually be more sad to lose this excellent coach that any player.
Dean Smith is my hero the real man living the real dream of someone who is realistic with his football career as player who worked hard to learn and develop to now a wonderful coach.
Someone who everyone can relate to in footballing terms
Great core values and principles a real class act.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Flamingo Lane on August 05, 2021, 10:31:19 PM
			

			

				I'm not sure where else to ask/post this, but can anyone explain why the Villa squad has been hanging out somewhere in London this week, and not at our state of the art Bodymoor Heath complex?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Chris Smith on August 05, 2021, 10:39:55 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Flamingo Lane on August 05, 2021, 10:31:19 PM
I'm not sure where else to ask/post this, but can anyone explain why the Villa squad has been hanging out somewhere in London this week, and not at our state of the art Bodymoor Heath complex?

It was suggested to me that it was a substitute for a pre-season tour which, for obvious reasons, was not viable.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Meanwood Villa on August 05, 2021, 10:49:16 PM
			

			

				So how much latitude does Deano get if we don't progress next season? Personally I think some of the predictions over on the realistic expectations thread aren't that realistic. I would be delighted with maintaining last season's points total as it stands.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Keeno on August 05, 2021, 10:53:52 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Footy-Vill on August 04, 2021, 04:45:06 PM
Finally Smith can play his own game and not have to Taylor for a unique talent. So that's with high tempo and pressing. Remember  the last 10 minutes Vs Fulham that's  a perfect example with the wide forwards of Bailey and Buendia getting goals and a threat for a whole 90 minutes. 
That's what I'm hoping
Counter attack and with the ball going forward very strong 

Possibly your best anti-Grealish post. It's very true.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Smoke on August 05, 2021, 11:06:42 PM
			

			

				Different scale but Smith has already cut his teeth on having his best players leave every year.

Same goes for Lange too. 

I've got faith in him but another season like last won't be good enough for the board. We need to constantly be improving. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: edgysatsuma89 on August 06, 2021, 12:42:03 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Meanwood Villa on August 05, 2021, 10:49:16 PM
So how much latitude does Deano get if we don't progress next season? Personally I think some of the predictions over on the realistic expectations thread aren't that realistic. I would be delighted with maintaining last season's points total as it stands.

I agree that some are unrealistic and I would be pleasantly surprised with a top 6 but he HAS to better last seasons points total. I don't think the owners will accept no progression and rightly so.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: cdbearsfan on August 06, 2021, 12:46:44 AM
			

			

				We wouldn't have accepted no improvement if Grealish had stayed. We have publicly announced that we've replaced him, so no reason why we should accept no improvement now.

There is no real difference between 11th and 8th except for a few extra quid so the "improvement" should consist of European qualification. Im fairly sure that will be our target.

I don't, for a second, think that Smith will be sacked if we don't achieve that. It would, however, likely be the first time he'd failed to meet or exceed a target since taking over.

He will only be under pressure if we find ourselves spending serious lengths of time in or around the relegation battle.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on August 06, 2021, 01:20:05 AM
			

			

				I'd have thought Smith will be relishing the season ahead. He's got some serious depth now in the forward positions, we can change games from the bench with what we have.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Demitri_C on August 06, 2021, 07:42:06 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Drummond on August 06, 2021, 01:20:05 AM
I'd have thought Smith will be relishing the season ahead. He's got some serious depth now in the forward positions, we can change games from the bench with what we have.

He does. Im excjted to see what we can do now we dont have to rely on just grealish!

We have some serious talent 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: RamboandBruno on August 06, 2021, 07:55:37 AM
			

			

				Always been a huge supporter of Smith, think despite some sticky patches, he’s largely done a great job. I do think despite losing Grealish, the new signings and big outlay add pressure to him. I also think our relatively easy start on paper at least adds pressure as well. Really we should be looking at minimum 7 to 9 points from the opening three games, but as a newly promoted club at home Watford will be chomping at the bit and Brentford always give us problems and there is the added scenario of Thomas Frank trying to put one over on his old gaffer. This all with a lot of new players trying to gel and find their feet, with little if any game time together. 
There are opportunities for banana skins and if we don’t get off to a good start before tougher (on paper) games to come, the post Grealish pressure builds immediately. 
Obviously hope none of this plays out and we hit the ground running. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on August 06, 2021, 08:10:17 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: RamboandBruno on August 06, 2021, 07:55:37 AM
Always been a huge supporter of Smith, think despite some sticky patches, he’s largely done a great job. I do think despite losing Grealish, the new signings and big outlay add pressure to him. I also think our relatively easy start on paper at least adds pressure as well. Really we should be looking at minimum 7 to 9 points from the opening three games, but as a newly promoted club at home Watford will be chomping at the bit and Brentford always give us problems and there is the added scenario of Thomas Frank trying to put one over on his old gaffer. This all with a lot of new players trying to gel and find their feet, with little if any game time together. 
There are opportunities for banana skins and if we don’t get off to a good start before tougher (on paper) games to come, the post Grealish pressure builds immediately. 
Obviously hope none of this plays out and we hit the ground running.
I agree, Villa have to improve on last season.
I think Smith needs to have us in contention for European places by January and the board can go again as needed in the transfer market.

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: RamboandBruno on August 06, 2021, 08:12:13 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: ChicagoLion on August 06, 2021, 08:10:17 AM
Quote from: RamboandBruno on August 06, 2021, 07:55:37 AM
Always been a huge supporter of Smith, think despite some sticky patches, he’s largely done a great job. I do think despite losing Grealish, the new signings and big outlay add pressure to him. I also think our relatively easy start on paper at least adds pressure as well. Really we should be looking at minimum 7 to 9 points from the opening three games, but as a newly promoted club at home Watford will be chomping at the bit and Brentford always give us problems and there is the added scenario of Thomas Frank trying to put one over on his old gaffer. This all with a lot of new players trying to gel and find their feet, with little if any game time together. 
There are opportunities for banana skins and if we don’t get off to a good start before tougher (on paper) games to come, the post Grealish pressure builds immediately. 
Obviously hope none of this plays out and we hit the ground running.
I agree, Villa have to improve on last season.
I think Smith needs to have us in contention for European places by January and the board can go again as needed in the transfer market.

Yea I’d agree with that 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Demitri_C on August 06, 2021, 09:08:25 AM
			

			

				Its good to read the liverpool echo saying they are worried about us closing the gap with them.

If you look at our team its young and only going to get better. Liverpools is aging they could drop off in few years if they dont invest heavily 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: LeeB on August 06, 2021, 09:23:10 AM
			

			

				We had Grealish for years before Smith turned up and were a laughing stock in the 2nd tier.

It's under him that Grealish realised his potential, and the same with so many others, finally reversing the trend of players joining, disappointing, and then leaving for less.

The single most important factor in our rejuvenation is still here, and he's now armed to the teeth.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Chris Smith on August 06, 2021, 10:03:40 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: LeeB on August 06, 2021, 09:23:10 AM
We had Grealish for years before Smith turned up and were a laughing stock in the 2nd tier.

It's under him that Grealish realised his potential, and the same with so many others, finally reversing the trend of players joining, disappointing, and then leaving for less.

The single most important factor in our rejuvenation is still here, and he's now armed to the teeth.

Agreed. He’s risen to every challenge so far in his time here (and before, otherwise he wouldn’t have got the job) and I am confident that he’ll continue in the same way. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: sickbeggar on August 06, 2021, 10:16:49 AM
			

			

				I just hope people make allowances given we'll have a whole new midfield to integrate rather than mentally counting how much it cost.. Could well be choppy for us at the start of the season with players settling in. It could go the other way of course with teams not knowing how to combat a Ratboy-less Villa.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: algy on August 06, 2021, 10:16:52 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Smoke on August 05, 2021, 11:06:42 PM
Different scale but Smith has already cut his teeth on having his best players leave every year.

Same goes for Lange too. 

I've got faith in him but another season like last won't be good enough for the board. We need to constantly be improving.
I agree 100%


			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Allan C on August 06, 2021, 10:19:39 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: LeeB on August 06, 2021, 09:23:10 AM
We had Grealish for years before Smith turned up and were a laughing stock in the 2nd tier.

It's under him that Grealish realised his potential, and the same with so many others, finally reversing the trend of players joining, disappointing, and then leaving for less.

The single most important factor in our rejuvenation is still here, and he's now armed to the teeth.
Yes I totally agree with this. I posted on here several times last season when some were extremely critical of Smith that the wheels came off for us when Covid hit the squad. We never looked the same after that. We also had a paper thin squad with no scope to rest key players. That will be different this season 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Brend'Watkins on August 06, 2021, 10:20:58 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Chris Smith on August 06, 2021, 10:03:40 AM
Quote from: LeeB on August 06, 2021, 09:23:10 AM
We had Grealish for years before Smith turned up and were a laughing stock in the 2nd tier.

It's under him that Grealish realised his potential, and the same with so many others, finally reversing the trend of players joining, disappointing, and then leaving for less.

The single most important factor in our rejuvenation is still here, and he's now armed to the teeth.

Agreed. He’s risen to every challenge so far in his time here (and before, otherwise he wouldn’t have got the job) and I am confident that he’ll continue in the same way. 

Agree too. he does his job under all conditions, never moans and never gloats. Professional and thoughtful with his words throughout.  I'd go as far as saying he's an ideal candidate for the England job as he has all the attributes and the football nous which is currently lacking, obviously wouldn't want him to be considered or take it even if he was asked. I'm sure he has an ego but it doesn't show.  He just seems a genuinely decent bloke. Yes, we will see how he copes without JG and I'm sure he'd have loved to hang on to him but this nonsense of "we will now see his team" is just that, nonsense.  Every manager in the league would want JG in their squad because he's a great player and will be a greater player with better players around him.  We are just going to play different and we now have better quality in depth.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: RamboandBruno on August 06, 2021, 10:25:49 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Brend'Watkins on August 06, 2021, 10:20:58 AM
Quote from: Chris Smith on August 06, 2021, 10:03:40 AM
Quote from: LeeB on August 06, 2021, 09:23:10 AM
We had Grealish for years before Smith turned up and were a laughing stock in the 2nd tier.

It's under him that Grealish realised his potential, and the same with so many others, finally reversing the trend of players joining, disappointing, and then leaving for less.

The single most important factor in our rejuvenation is still here, and he's now armed to the teeth.

Agreed. He’s risen to every challenge so far in his time here (and before, otherwise he wouldn’t have got the job) and I am confident that he’ll continue in the same way. 

Agree too. he does his job under all conditions, never moans and never gloats. Professional and thoughtful with his words throughout.  I'd go as far as saying he's an ideal candidate for the England job as he has all the attributes and the football nous which is currently lacking, obviously wouldn't want him to be considered or take it even if he was asked. I'm sure he has an ego but it doesn't show.  He just seems a genuinely decent bloke. Yes, we will see how he copes without JG and I'm sure he'd have loved to hang on to him but this nonsense of "we will now see his team" is just that, nonsense.  Every manager in the league would want JG in their squad because he's a great player and will be a greater player with better players around him.  We are just going to play different and we now have better quality in depth.
Well said
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on August 06, 2021, 10:48:57 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Allan C on August 06, 2021, 10:19:39 AM
Quote from: LeeB on August 06, 2021, 09:23:10 AM
We had Grealish for years before Smith turned up and were a laughing stock in the 2nd tier.

It's under him that Grealish realised his potential, and the same with so many others, finally reversing the trend of players joining, disappointing, and then leaving for less.

The single most important factor in our rejuvenation is still here, and he's now armed to the teeth.
Yes I totally agree with this. I posted on here several times last season when some were extremely critical of Smith that the wheels came off for us when Covid hit the squad. We never looked the same after that. We also had a paper thin squad with no scope to rest key players. That will be different this season 

It was a combination of things, the covid break clearly had an impact, the loss of form for Barkley and Luiz had an impact and losing Ratty clearly played a part. I said at the time that it was never as simple as with or without him and the turn around in form started before he came back as well.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Smithy on August 06, 2021, 10:54:14 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Smoke on August 05, 2021, 11:06:42 PM
Different scale but Smith has already cut his teeth on having his best players leave every year.

Same goes for Lange too. 

I've got faith in him but another season like last won't be good enough for the board. We need to constantly be improving. 

I like Smith, I like the way he tries to play football, and I like the way he represents our club.  I'm also quite excited to see how the team plays this season given there will no longer be that reliance on Jack. 

That said, I don't buy into this "he's had previous experience losing his best players each year" as if he thrived in that situation.  Yes, under him, Brentford lost their top player(s) most years.  But his replacement got Brentford promoted to the premier league after losing Konsa, Watkins, Maupay and Benrahma - four solid premier league performers.

I have faith we'll do well this season, but I don't think he's yet "proven" he can handle losing his best player and improve the performance of the side left behind.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: martyn ellis on August 06, 2021, 11:25:08 AM
			

			

				And, it should be noted, he chooses intelligently the people who he works with and evidently trusts them to deliver without pushing the 'I'm the boss' card. He would be the first to agree it's a team effort, all the way from first team to Mark Delaney, Jedinak, Harrison, Cutler, Verity and a host more I've missed out. They all know their jobs and come with high reputation. Some of that at least must be down to people wanting to work with Dean. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Smoke on August 06, 2021, 11:28:50 AM
			

			

				So when Smith was at Brentford losing players the project continued, Frank has certainly lost more players of higher quality but wouldn't brentford argue that was always part of the model to continue improving? Where by now they've (finally) achieved 1 of their objectives. 

My point was Manager and Sporting Director have not been thrust into this situation for the first time, infact they've both learned their trade by having this exact situation happen time and time again. 



			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: danno on August 06, 2021, 11:30:51 AM
			

			

				I wouldn't underestimate the egos of professional footballers, there will be a lot of our team determined to prove they're far more than sidemen for the Jack Grealish show.

To some extent I think with John Terry gone as well, that may well extend to our manager.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: brontebilly on August 06, 2021, 11:44:47 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: LeeB on August 06, 2021, 09:23:10 AM
We had Grealish for years before Smith turned up and were a laughing stock in the 2nd tier.

It's under him that Grealish realised his potential, and the same with so many others, finally reversing the trend of players joining, disappointing, and then leaving for less.

The single most important factor in our rejuvenation is still here, and he's now armed to the teeth.

Grealish had driven us to the playoff final v Fulham a few months prior to Smith arriving, tends to get lost in the revisionism.... The data would argue we were rabble under Smith in the championship too and prem if Grealish was unavailable for any reason. Last season was absolutely shocking at times without Grealish let's not kid ourselves, barely able to put 3 or 4 passes together.

Huge test for Smith this season no doubt. It's effectively trying to build a new team and style of play without Grealish over a couple of weeks pre season with a number of new players. He will also have to start rotating players a lot more regularly and make much better use of his bench, neither of which he has done much of to date. A few early wins would certainly help matters. Top 8 for me should be a realistic target given the budget he has been given this summer and some very talented players we already have. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on August 06, 2021, 11:51:09 AM
			

			

				Looking on the bright side again, bronte!
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: not3bad on August 06, 2021, 12:05:47 PM
			

			

				In Christian Purslow's address he said that they took Grealish's qualities and instead of trying to find a like for like replacement (which would have been virtually impossible anyway) they split these qualities over a number of players (Buenvida, Bailey, Ings). In this way the side would be more resilient and there would be less chance of a critical point of failure as before. I don't doubt that Smith was a big part of this strategy. 

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Mister E on August 06, 2021, 12:49:55 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: not3bad on August 06, 2021, 12:05:47 PM
In Christian Purslow's address he said that they took Grealish's qualities and instead of trying to find a like for like replacement (which would have been virtually impossible anyway) they split these qualities over a number of players (Buenvida, Bailey, Ings). In this way the side would be more resilient and there would be less chance of a critical point of failure as before. I don't doubt that Smith was a big part of this strategy. 
Not rocket science, though, was it? - on here, we've all bemoaned the 13 game period without JG where we only won twice.
The clever bit is in the way they've recruited to address it: Buendia was someone I would have liked to have seen in a Villa shirt 12 months' ago (and several of us made that point at the time), but Bailey and Ings are potentially inspired signings.
Where the strategy falls down is if we get 2 or 3 injuries at the same time, 'cos then we'd only have Traore, P-Bidace, Chuky, Sanson and AEG to turn to.
... wait a minute ...   ;D ;D 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: brontebilly on August 06, 2021, 01:59:57 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on August 06, 2021, 11:51:09 AM
Looking on the bright side again, bronte!

I think I am! Looking forward to seeing Buendia in particular in action, think he could be a cracking player for us compared to a joker like Barkley. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: David_Nab on August 06, 2021, 04:15:35 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: brontebilly on August 06, 2021, 01:59:57 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on August 06, 2021, 11:51:09 AM
Looking on the bright side again, bronte!

I think I am! Looking forward to seeing Buendia in particular in action, think he could be a cracking player for us compared to a joker like Barkley. 

Him feeding either Watkins & Ings or both together should be good
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: West Derby Villan on August 06, 2021, 04:22:25 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Brend'Watkins on August 06, 2021, 10:20:58 AM
Quote from: Chris Smith on August 06, 2021, 10:03:40 AM
Quote from: LeeB on August 06, 2021, 09:23:10 AM
We had Grealish for years before Smith turned up and were a laughing stock in the 2nd tier.

It's under him that Grealish realised his potential, and the same with so many others, finally reversing the trend of players joining, disappointing, and then leaving for less.

The single most important factor in our rejuvenation is still here, and he's now armed to the teeth.

Agreed. He’s risen to every challenge so far in his time here (and before, otherwise he wouldn’t have got the job) and I am confident that he’ll continue in the same way. 

Agree too. he does his job under all conditions, never moans and never gloats. Professional and thoughtful with his words throughout.  I'd go as far as saying he's an ideal candidate for the England job as he has all the attributes and the football nous which is currently lacking, obviously wouldn't want him to be considered or take it even if he was asked. I'm sure he has an ego but it doesn't show.  He just seems a genuinely decent bloke. Yes, we will see how he copes without JG and I'm sure he'd have loved to hang on to him but this nonsense of "we will now see his team" is just that, nonsense.  Every manager in the league would want JG in their squad because he's a great player and will be a greater player with better players around him.  We are just going to play different and we now have better quality in depth.

Couldn’t agree more
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: passport1 on August 06, 2021, 05:19:58 PM
			

			

				Not normally a stato but on the back of Purslows comments I've had a look at the stats for the three replacements and they are pretty eye watering. Combined 36 goals and 28 assists vs Ratboy 6 goals and 10 assists.  That's excluding Watkins. I think we have played a blinder.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on August 06, 2021, 05:21:49 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: passport1 on August 06, 2021, 05:19:58 PM
Not normally a stato but on the back of Purslows comments I've had a look at the stats for the three replacements and they are pretty eye watering. Combined 36 goals and 28 assists vs Ratboy 6 goals and 10 assists.  That's excluding Watkins. I think we have played a blinder.

I'm really pissed off with Greasy Ratboy, but I wouldn't say it's really fair to compare one player's output with three!
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: passport1 on August 06, 2021, 05:33:00 PM
			

			

				Well if you want a direct comparison  let's take Ratboy vs Buendia in the Championship.
Ratboy 2018/19 goals 6 assists 7
Buedia 2020/21 goals 15 assists 16



			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: not3bad on August 06, 2021, 05:38:37 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on August 06, 2021, 05:21:49 PM
Quote from: passport1 on August 06, 2021, 05:19:58 PM
Not normally a stato but on the back of Purslows comments I've had a look at the stats for the three replacements and they are pretty eye watering. Combined 36 goals and 28 assists vs Ratboy 6 goals and 10 assists.  That's excluding Watkins. I think we have played a blinder.

I'm really pissed off with Greasy Ratboy, but I wouldn't say it's really fair to compare one player's output with three!

If you put it in the context of all 3 being a combined replacement for the previous No. 10 though it becomes relevant. last season when the previous no. 10 was missing for any reason Villa would struggles. This year if any of Ings, Buenvida or Bailey are missing for any reason hopefully the others will be able to pick up the slack.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Chris Smith on August 06, 2021, 05:42:45 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on August 06, 2021, 05:21:49 PM
Quote from: passport1 on August 06, 2021, 05:19:58 PM
Not normally a stato but on the back of Purslows comments I've had a look at the stats for the three replacements and they are pretty eye watering. Combined 36 goals and 28 assists vs Ratboy 6 goals and 10 assists.  That's excluding Watkins. I think we have played a blinder.

I'm really pissed off with Greasy Ratboy, but I wouldn't say it's really fair to compare one player's output with three!

Maybe, but the club has chosen to replace him with those three so there’s some logic to the comparison. There’s no doubt we’ve lost a huge talent but we should be better balanced next season. I think the team had got into a habit, on occasion, of leaving it all to one man, we’ve now got three new players hopefully motivated to prove that they can fill the gap. I was really pissed off earlier in the week as it became apparent that he was going but I’ve finished it feeling genuinely optimistic for the new season.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on August 06, 2021, 05:45:13 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Chris Smith on August 06, 2021, 05:42:45 PM
Quote from: Risso on August 06, 2021, 05:21:49 PM
Quote from: passport1 on August 06, 2021, 05:19:58 PM
Not normally a stato but on the back of Purslows comments I've had a look at the stats for the three replacements and they are pretty eye watering. Combined 36 goals and 28 assists vs Ratboy 6 goals and 10 assists.  That's excluding Watkins. I think we have played a blinder.

I'm really pissed off with Greasy Ratboy, but I wouldn't say it's really fair to compare one player's output with three!

Maybe, but the club has chosen to replace him with those three so there’s some logic to the comparison. There’s no doubt we’ve lost a huge talent but we should be better balanced next season. I think the team had got into a habit, on occasion, of leaving it all to one man, we’ve now got three new players hopefully motivated to prove that they can fill the gap. I was really pissed off earlier in the week as it became apparent that he was going but I’ve finished it feeling genuinely optimistic for the new season.

Same here.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sdwbvf on August 06, 2021, 05:48:13 PM
			

			

				I'm optimistic now. Losing that bloke means that we have to play without him every week so there won't be a drop-off of form when he's out. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: passport1 on August 06, 2021, 05:49:04 PM
			

			

				It's an illustration of how often the sum of the parts is far greater than the individual.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Monty on August 06, 2021, 05:56:37 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Sdwbvf on August 06, 2021, 05:48:13 PM
I'm optimistic now. Losing that bloke means that we have to play without him every week so there won't be a drop-off of form when he's out. 

Well, it would be quite hard to drop below our form without him last year.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: algy on August 06, 2021, 06:08:32 PM
			

			

				For no real reason at all other than gut instinct, I think this summer will turn out to be monumental in more ways than one.

Grealish will either hit Messi-type heights, if he excels. I'd worry tho that he's kind of like the reverse McGrath. Dodgy legs, and whilst we to a certain extent tolerated his indiscretions, he'll be cut far less slack there. Potentially GOAT, potential scapegoat.

For Deano, more importantly, he now has a squad almost entirely of his own building - is it just Steer & SJM predate him now? He's not got to pander to any one player, or set the team's goals to suit one individual.  We're also in a position now where we've got a decent PL squad and are able to being in proven quality if we want, rather than just rely entirely on picking up bargains. Not that I think we'll completely stop the latter, but that's now not the only option.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: N'ZMAV on August 06, 2021, 06:10:06 PM
			

			

				Hourihane, AEG and Davis too
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Smithy on August 06, 2021, 07:35:00 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on August 06, 2021, 05:21:49 PM
Quote from: passport1 on August 06, 2021, 05:19:58 PM
Not normally a stato but on the back of Purslows comments I've had a look at the stats for the three replacements and they are pretty eye watering. Combined 36 goals and 28 assists vs Ratboy 6 goals and 10 assists.  That's excluding Watkins. I think we have played a blinder.

I'm really pissed off with Greasy Ratboy, but I wouldn't say it's really fair to compare one player's output with three!

Indeed, we've bought really well - but adding the stats up from three players and comparing them to one player, only really works if we can start playing with 13 on the field.

It's like signing three goalkeepers who between them had more clean sheets than Emi, and then insisting we're therefore better off without him.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: passport1 on August 06, 2021, 08:01:42 PM
			

			

				I'd suggest you re read the post in full and subsequent comments rather than trotting out a load of sarcastic bollocks.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ASHTONVILLA on August 06, 2021, 08:29:25 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Smithy on August 06, 2021, 07:35:00 PM
Quote from: Risso on August 06, 2021, 05:21:49 PM
Quote from: passport1 on August 06, 2021, 05:19:58 PM
Not normally a stato but on the back of Purslows comments I've had a look at the stats for the three replacements and they are pretty eye watering. Combined 36 goals and 28 assists vs Ratboy 6 goals and 10 assists.  That's excluding Watkins. I think we have played a blinder.

I'm really pissed off with Greasy Ratboy, but I wouldn't say it's really fair to compare one player's output with three!

Indeed, we've bought really well - but adding the stats up from three players and comparing them to one player, only really works if we can start playing with 13 on the field.

It's like signing three goalkeepers who between them had more clean sheets than Emi, and then insisting we're therefore better off without him.

Best way is to take the combined Grealish/El Ghazi/Barkley stats and compare with Ings, Bailey and Buendia

Not sure how they stack up, but suspect there are more goals and assists there.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: brontebilly on August 06, 2021, 08:34:25 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: passport1 on August 06, 2021, 05:33:00 PM
Well if you want a direct comparison  let's take Ratboy vs Buendia in the Championship.
Ratboy 2018/19 goals 6 assists 7
Buedia 2020/21 goals 15 assists 16

No point comparing anyone to JG really, his stats barely scratch the surface of his influence on the team. But Buendia really tore the championship apart last season. Also got seven assists the season before in the prem in the worst team in the division. Strong as a bull on the ball. Brave enough maybe going for the number 10 jersey but good sign of self belief too. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Demitri_C on August 06, 2021, 08:36:10 PM
			

			

				Just hoping the team doesnt take too long to gel. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: passport1 on August 06, 2021, 08:42:46 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: ASHTONVILLA on August 06, 2021, 08:29:25 PM
Quote from: Smithy on August 06, 2021, 07:35:00 PM
Quote from: Risso on August 06, 2021, 05:21:49 PM
Quote from: passport1 on August 06, 2021, 05:19:58 PM
Not normally a stato but on the back of Purslows comments I've had a look at the stats for the three replacements and they are pretty eye watering. Combined 36 goals and 28 assists vs Ratboy 6 goals and 10 assists.  That's excluding Watkins. I think we have played a blinder.

I'm really pissed off with Greasy Ratboy, but I wouldn't say it's really fair to compare one player's output with three!

Indeed, we've bought really well - but adding the stats up from three players and comparing them to one player, only really works if we can start playing with 13 on the field.

It's like signing three goalkeepers who between them had more clean sheets than Emi, and then insisting we're therefore better off without him.

Best way is to take the combined Grealish/El Ghazi/Barkley stats and compare with Ings, Bailey and Buendia

Not sure how they stack up, but suspect there are more goals and assists there.

Ratboy/El Ghazi/Barkley  19 Goals 11 assists vs 36 Goals and 28 assists for Buendia /Bailey/Ings
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: not3bad on August 06, 2021, 09:10:16 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Demitri_C on August 06, 2021, 08:36:10 PM
Just hoping the team doesnt take too long to gel. 

Well they'll get a bit of practice at tomorrow's friend-

Ah. Shit.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Steve67 on August 06, 2021, 09:16:43 PM
			

			

				Salernitana on Sunday now instead, but closed doors.  I have just bought my viewing ticket.  

The interview with Dean is disappointing as I wanted Michelle to ask Dean about future transfers, when does Bailey rock up, how are Traore and Sanson coming on with their fitness, does he anticipate a shift of formation etc. She may have asked all those questions of course but we only get 10 minutes. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: eamonn on August 07, 2021, 12:08:07 AM
			

			

				What if you swap Barkley for Watkins in the comparison ?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Percy McCarthy on August 07, 2021, 02:08:21 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: eamonn on August 07, 2021, 12:08:07 AM
What if you swap Barkley for Watkins in the comparison ?

We’ve still got Watkins though.

Haven’t we?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: wince on August 07, 2021, 02:25:47 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Percy McCarthy on August 07, 2021, 02:08:21 AM
Quote from: eamonn on August 07, 2021, 12:08:07 AM
What if you swap Barkley for Watkins in the comparison ?

We’ve still got Watkins though.

Haven’t we?
Unless spurs come a sniffin. Can we swap Barkley for some magic beans?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Lastfootstamper on August 07, 2021, 07:49:40 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Steve67 on August 06, 2021, 09:16:43 PM
Salernitana on Sunday now instead, but closed doors.  I have just bought my viewing ticket.  

The interview with Dean is disappointing as I wanted Michelle to ask Dean about future transfers, when does Bailey rock up, how are Traore and Sanson coming on with their fitness, does he anticipate a shift of formation etc. She may have asked all those questions of course but we only get 10 minutes.
 

If I was in his position and those were put to me as Villa manager, you'd have got a vague answer to the fitness question, and none at all to the others. You not play much poker, Steve? 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: eamonn on August 07, 2021, 02:14:48 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Percy McCarthy on August 07, 2021, 02:08:21 AM
Quote from: eamonn on August 07, 2021, 12:08:07 AM
What if you swap Barkley for Watkins in the comparison ?

We’ve still got Watkins though.

Haven’t we?

And we've still got El Ghazi. Just wanted to see how the three current/ex attackers v three brand new players comparison stands-up. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on August 07, 2021, 07:50:30 PM
			

			

				𝗧𝗵𝗲 𝗔𝗩𝗙𝗖 𝗙𝗮𝗶𝘁𝗵𝗳𝘂𝗹 
@AVFCFaithful_
Dean Smith intends to use Ollie Watkins and Danny Ings as a pair in attack, as part of either a 3-5-2 or 4-4-2 formation, while he has also been considering a midfield diamond with Buendia at its point. [
@TomCollomosse
] #avfc

I'm not sure about 4-4-2 in this day and age, and 3-5-2 is obviously the devil's formation. 4-1-3-2 for me.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: edgysatsuma89 on August 07, 2021, 08:19:43 PM
			

			

				All to fit the mighty Ashley Young in at wing back!
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Mister E on August 07, 2021, 08:31:34 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on August 07, 2021, 07:50:30 PM
𝗧𝗵𝗲 𝗔𝗩𝗙𝗖 𝗙𝗮𝗶𝘁𝗵𝗳𝘂𝗹 
@AVFCFaithful_
Dean Smith intends to use Ollie Watkins and Danny Ings as a pair in attack, as part of either a 3-5-2 or 4-4-2 formation, while he has also been considering a midfield diamond with Buendia at its point. [
@TomCollomosse
] #avfc

I'm not sure about 4-4-2 in this day and age, and 3-5-2 is obviously the devil's formation. 4-1-3-2 for me.
3-5-2 yeeaaay!!😁
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on August 07, 2021, 08:33:45 PM
			

			

				3-5-2 is bold call considering we played it for a few games in 19/20. Looked fine v Burnley then we conceded six at home to Man. City and it was ditched. Don't think we've played it in any game since.

Think Cash and Targett would be fine as wingbacks (and Young of course given Inter played it last season). Wonder if we may trial Targett as LCB at some point as a few teams play fullbacks as the third CB sometimes e.g. Shaw and Tierney and it looks o.k.

Can see logic but not really sure where Leon Bailey fits into all this if we're playing two strikers + Buendia as number 10.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: danno on August 07, 2021, 08:37:24 PM
			

			

				The 4-4-2 is really a 4-4-1-1. Assuming Ings is where Barkley played last season.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Toronto Villa on August 07, 2021, 08:38:07 PM
			

			

				Do we all really believe Dean Smith is publicly declaring his tactics and formations?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: RamboandBruno on August 07, 2021, 08:43:03 PM
			

			

				I’d be surprised if he went to 352, seeing as he’s always loved 4 2 3 1. But maybe one of the reasons he seems so keen on getting Tuanzebe back. I just don’t really see it though. I think it’s more likely that Watkins will push a bit to the left. I do see both of him and Ings starting though 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ian. on August 07, 2021, 08:49:47 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Toronto Villa on August 07, 2021, 08:38:07 PM
Do we all really believe Dean Smith is publicly declaring his tactics and formations?
Not a chance, also I’m wondering if we may be a little more less structured on a formation week on week out now Jack’s gone.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Lastfootstamper on August 07, 2021, 09:08:09 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on August 07, 2021, 07:50:30 PM
𝗧𝗵𝗲 𝗔𝗩𝗙𝗖 𝗙𝗮𝗶𝘁𝗵𝗳𝘂𝗹 
@AVFCFaithful_
Dean Smith intends to use Ollie Watkins and Danny Ings as a pair in attack, as part of either a 3-5-2 or 4-4-2 formation, while he has also been considering a midfield diamond with Buendia at its point. [
@TomCollomosse
] #avfc

I'm not sure about 4-4-2 in this day and age, and 3-5-2 is obviously the devil's formation. 4-1-3-2 for me.
 

Times change. Width is back. Bollocks to diamonds. 4-1-3-2 for me, too. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Cliftonville Villlain on August 07, 2021, 09:16:59 PM
			

			

				Genuinely looking forward to this season. We were far too reliant on Grealish and we've definitely addressed that in the close season. And I suspect there's more to come. The owners have did their bit and now Dean has to do his thing. Strongly feel that at the end of the season Sky won't be patronising us any more for what we're about to do. I remember being distraught at Ashley Young leaving but I could understand it but I don't understand what just happened during the week. I don't live in Birmingham, don't know what the sentiment is towards one of your own there, but I hope to God Villa don't let him in the door again later in his career. I'd like to think we will have progressed to such an extent that it would be a backward step. Dean"s one of us, one of you, true Villa and I hope he does the biz this year. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Toronto Villa on August 07, 2021, 10:03:13 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Ian. on August 07, 2021, 08:49:47 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on August 07, 2021, 08:38:07 PM
Do we all really believe Dean Smith is publicly declaring his tactics and formations?
Not a chance, also I’m wondering if we may be a little more less structured on a formation week on week out now Jack’s gone.

Having Jack and everything he brought talent wise meant committing to him. And we did that very effectively. Now we can be a bit more structured but to a point. We have very skilful individual players that can create something out of nothing and we don’t want to blunt any of that. It will be fascinating how Dean and his staff try and get the best out of all of them. The good thing is the defence is rock solid so we can build everything off that.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: rob_bridge on August 07, 2021, 10:41:21 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Toronto Villa on August 07, 2021, 08:38:07 PM
Do we all really believe Dean Smith is publicly declaring his tactics and formations?

Nope.

I remember signing the Crystal Palace captain after they got relegated - defensive midfielder fellow. Think has done pretty well recently coaching wise. 

Anyway him and this young monster called Ugo played either side of someone who is one of the best centre halves of all time. We had a pretty good season under a Club Legend.

I never saw it coming.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: edgysatsuma89 on August 07, 2021, 11:04:44 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Toronto Villa on August 07, 2021, 08:38:07 PM
Do we all really believe Dean Smith is publicly declaring his tactics and formations?

Nah of course not. I don't hate 352 like some do but I don't think we have the right players to play that anyway, not without losing Bailey.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on August 08, 2021, 12:01:49 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on August 07, 2021, 09:08:09 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on August 07, 2021, 07:50:30 PM
𝗧𝗵𝗲 𝗔𝗩𝗙𝗖 𝗙𝗮𝗶𝘁𝗵𝗳𝘂𝗹 
@AVFCFaithful_
Dean Smith intends to use Ollie Watkins and Danny Ings as a pair in attack, as part of either a 3-5-2 or 4-4-2 formation, while he has also been considering a midfield diamond with Buendia at its point. [
@TomCollomosse
] #avfc

I'm not sure about 4-4-2 in this day and age, and 3-5-2 is obviously the devil's formation. 4-1-3-2 for me.
 

Times change. Width is back. Bollocks to diamonds. 4-1-3-2 for me, too. 

It really depends on the specific instructions to players. a diamond where the strikers  are playing between their centre backs and full backs, your own fullbacks are playing high and the 2 in the middle of the diamond are encouraged to get around the box is basically how Liverpool won the league. On paper it looked like a 433 but Firmino played a lot deeper than Salah and Mane. It's probably my favourite formation right now, done properly, and with the right players, you have lots of ways to drag players out of position.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: olaftab on August 08, 2021, 12:09:08 AM
			

			

				I just want him to play a formation that means we score lots of goals and concede very few. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Footy-Vill on August 08, 2021, 12:12:54 AM
			

			

				Always With Ashley Young in the team.
So 3-5-2 would be great !! 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Villan82 on August 08, 2021, 12:15:58 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Cliftonville Villlain on August 07, 2021, 09:16:59 PM
Genuinely looking forward to this season. We were far too reliant on Grealish and we've definitely addressed that in the close season. And I suspect there's more to come. The owners have did their bit and now Dean has to do his thing. Strongly feel that at the end of the season Sky won't be patronising us any more for what we're about to do. I remember being distraught at Ashley Young leaving but I could understand it but I don't understand what just happened during the week. I don't live in Birmingham, don't know what the sentiment is towards one of your own there, but I hope to God Villa don't let him in the door again later in his career. I'd like to think we will have progressed to such an extent that it would be a backward step. Dean"s one of us, one of you, true Villa and I hope he does the biz this year.

He severed his ties to us so I hope he is never welcomed back. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on August 08, 2021, 01:02:39 PM
			

			

				Now that he's managed to get rid of the last of the team that got relegated I expect we'll push on. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on August 08, 2021, 06:20:41 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Drummond on August 08, 2021, 01:02:39 PM
Now that he's managed to get rid of the last of the team that got relegated I expect we'll push on.

Ha, like it!
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: cdbearsfan on August 09, 2021, 08:52:45 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Footy-Vill on August 08, 2021, 12:12:54 AM
Always With Ashley Young in the team.
So 3-5-2 would be great !!

Let's not fall out.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: brontebilly on August 09, 2021, 10:35:25 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on August 07, 2021, 09:08:09 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on August 07, 2021, 07:50:30 PM
𝗧𝗵𝗲 𝗔𝗩𝗙𝗖 𝗙𝗮𝗶𝘁𝗵𝗳𝘂𝗹 
@AVFCFaithful_
Dean Smith intends to use Ollie Watkins and Danny Ings as a pair in attack, as part of either a 3-5-2 or 4-4-2 formation, while he has also been considering a midfield diamond with Buendia at its point. [
@TomCollomosse
] #avfc

I'm not sure about 4-4-2 in this day and age, and 3-5-2 is obviously the devil's formation. 4-1-3-2 for me.
 

Times change. Width is back. Bollocks to diamonds. 4-1-3-2 for me, too.

Every formation that accommodates Ings and Watkins in the starting line up leaves us very light in midfield for me. Great to have attacking options but we simply can't afford to have our midfield wide open to the counter attack. 

Tuanzebe does give the option of 3 centre backs. For that formation to have any chance of success, all three centre backs need to be comfortable with the ball. Last time we tried we had Hause who was brutally exposed and Mings in the centre who can't turn onto his right side. Tuanzebe/Konsa/Mings would be fine though and Tuanzebe is very comfortable stepping into midfield. But three at the back leaves no position for Bailey or any winger. 

The biggest issue we need to address is when teams press us from the front how are we going to be able to transition through midfield from back to front. Too often once Grealish got injured, Mings in particular was forced to go long to Watkins down the left channel. McGinn isn't that comfortable taking the ball with his back to the play and Luiz couldn't or wouldn't do it enough. Nakamba isn't good enough to even be trying it. We still need a new player in that position for me, next to one of them.

Grealish was brilliant at helping us keep possession and aside from his attacking threat that's something that will be very hard to replace. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: N'ZMAV on August 09, 2021, 10:43:29 AM
			

			

				our midfielders need to be a central 3 - two of them aren't good enough as a pair. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: sickbeggar on August 09, 2021, 10:47:35 AM
			

			

				Hah, Dean obviously saw me mention a diamond formation. Would work well I reckon
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on August 09, 2021, 11:10:40 AM
			

			

				I just think it's nice we now seem to have the personnel to try different formations. Two forwards who are proven Premier League scorers, a raw talent returnoing from injury and a youngster coming through who can hold the ball up.

In midfield, we have wingers, a number of central midfielders and in defence we have strength in depth.

I wouldn't be surprised if we had a patchy start as we try to get going with all that but I'd hope, with the quality available, that we fly not long in.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Monty on August 09, 2021, 11:32:57 AM
			

			

				I've always been keen on the diamond, but I don't really see how our players suit it right now. Unless you drop one of Bailey, Ings or Watkins. Which I guess is the definition of a nice problem.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Smithy on August 09, 2021, 11:43:00 AM
			

			

				I like the fact that none us has any real confidence on what our 'best' 11 is when everyone is fit.  It's been a while since we've had the sort of depth needed to make the starting line-up so difficult.  It also bodes well for having genuine game changers on the bench - maybe we'll see Dean be more proactive with subs now he's got some actual quality sitting there?

I've no idea how he gets a team out there with Watkins, Ings, Buendia and Bailey all starting.  I look forward to seeing him try to make it work, but it feels like it would be a team that would win or 5-4 each week.  I'm guessing the reality is one of them will be on the bench with Traore and AEG?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: chrisw1 on August 09, 2021, 12:03:52 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Smithy on August 09, 2021, 11:43:00 AM
I like the fact that none us has any real confidence on what our 'best' 11 is when everyone is fit.  It's been a while since we've had the sort of depth needed to make the starting line-up so difficult.  It also bodes well for having genuine game changers on the bench - maybe we'll see Dean be more proactive with subs now he's got some actual quality sitting there?

I've no idea how he gets a team out there with Watkins, Ings, Buendia and Bailey all starting.  I look forward to seeing him try to make it work, but it feels like it would be a team that would win or 5-4 each week.  I'm guessing the reality is one of them will be on the bench with Traore and AEG?

I guess Watkins playing wide?

Cash   Konsa    Mings   Targett
         McGinn    Nakamba
Bailey      Buendia      Watkins
                 Ings

I guess your question here is Watkins a better wide player than ElGhazi & Traore?

I like Ings and certainly felt we needed more up front, but I think playing 2 up top to accommodate him & Watkins him may be a mistake.  Perhaps Watkins injury makes the decision a bit easier for GW1.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: not3bad on August 09, 2021, 01:45:33 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: chrisw1 on August 09, 2021, 12:03:52 PM
Quote from: Smithy on August 09, 2021, 11:43:00 AM
I like the fact that none us has any real confidence on what our 'best' 11 is when everyone is fit.  It's been a while since we've had the sort of depth needed to make the starting line-up so difficult.  It also bodes well for having genuine game changers on the bench - maybe we'll see Dean be more proactive with subs now he's got some actual quality sitting there?

I've no idea how he gets a team out there with Watkins, Ings, Buendia and Bailey all starting.  I look forward to seeing him try to make it work, but it feels like it would be a team that would win or 5-4 each week.  I'm guessing the reality is one of them will be on the bench with Traore and AEG?

I guess Watkins playing wide?

Cash   Konsa    Mings   Targett
         McGinn    Nakamba
Bailey      Buendia      Watkins
                 Ings

I guess your question here is Watkins a better wide player than ElGhazi & Traore?

I like Ings and certainly felt we needed more up front, but I think playing 2 up top to accommodate him & Watkins him may be a mistake.  Perhaps Watkins injury makes the decision a bit easier for GW1.

The front 4 would all be interchangeable.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Smithy on August 09, 2021, 02:06:52 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: not3bad on August 09, 2021, 01:45:33 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on August 09, 2021, 12:03:52 PM
Quote from: Smithy on August 09, 2021, 11:43:00 AM
I like the fact that none us has any real confidence on what our 'best' 11 is when everyone is fit.  It's been a while since we've had the sort of depth needed to make the starting line-up so difficult.  It also bodes well for having genuine game changers on the bench - maybe we'll see Dean be more proactive with subs now he's got some actual quality sitting there?

I've no idea how he gets a team out there with Watkins, Ings, Buendia and Bailey all starting.  I look forward to seeing him try to make it work, but it feels like it would be a team that would win or 5-4 each week.  I'm guessing the reality is one of them will be on the bench with Traore and AEG?

I guess Watkins playing wide?

Cash   Konsa    Mings   Targett
         McGinn    Nakamba
Bailey      Buendia      Watkins
                 Ings

I guess your question here is Watkins a better wide player than ElGhazi & Traore?

I like Ings and certainly felt we needed more up front, but I think playing 2 up top to accommodate him & Watkins him may be a mistake.  Perhaps Watkins injury makes the decision a bit easier for GW1.

The front 4 would all be interchangeable.
Quote from: chrisw1 on August 09, 2021, 12:03:52 PM
Quote from: Smithy on August 09, 2021, 11:43:00 AM
I like the fact that none us has any real confidence on what our 'best' 11 is when everyone is fit.  It's been a while since we've had the sort of depth needed to make the starting line-up so difficult.  It also bodes well for having genuine game changers on the bench - maybe we'll see Dean be more proactive with subs now he's got some actual quality sitting there?

I've no idea how he gets a team out there with Watkins, Ings, Buendia and Bailey all starting.  I look forward to seeing him try to make it work, but it feels like it would be a team that would win or 5-4 each week.  I'm guessing the reality is one of them will be on the bench with Traore and AEG?

I guess Watkins playing wide?

Cash   Konsa    Mings   Targett
         McGinn    Nakamba
Bailey      Buendia      Watkins
                 Ings

I guess your question here is Watkins a better wide player than ElGhazi & Traore?

I like Ings and certainly felt we needed more up front, but I think playing 2 up top to accommodate him & Watkins him may be a mistake.  Perhaps Watkins injury makes the decision a bit easier for GW1.

It's more than to play those four, in those positions, you're playing Emi and Ollie in 'new' positions.  I think Emi CAN play as a 10 - but whenever I've seen him play (not much, to be honest), he's been a wide attacker who sometimes come central to get involved.

I love the idea of a fluid front-4, who can all interchange, but that feels like a big leap - tactically speaking - from where we were last season.

Exciting to wonder though, isn't it?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Hookeysmith on August 09, 2021, 02:07:00 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: chrisw1 on August 09, 2021, 12:03:52 PM
Quote from: Smithy on August 09, 2021, 11:43:00 AM
I like the fact that none us has any real confidence on what our 'best' 11 is when everyone is fit.  It's been a while since we've had the sort of depth needed to make the starting line-up so difficult.  It also bodes well for having genuine game changers on the bench - maybe we'll see Dean be more proactive with subs now he's got some actual quality sitting there?

I've no idea how he gets a team out there with Watkins, Ings, Buendia and Bailey all starting.  I look forward to seeing him try to make it work, but it feels like it would be a team that would win or 5-4 each week.  I'm guessing the reality is one of them will be on the bench with Traore and AEG?

I guess Watkins playing wide?

Cash   Konsa    Mings   Targett
         McGinn    Nakamba
Bailey      Buendia      Watkins
                 Ings

I guess your question here is Watkins a better wide player than ElGhazi & Traore?

I like Ings and certainly felt we needed more up front, but I think playing 2 up top to accommodate him & Watkins him may be a mistake.  Perhaps Watkins injury makes the decision a bit easier for GW1.

I think this formation is best although looking at the highlights in yesterdays game i was worried to see that McGinn was central to nearly all forward balls and was almost the quarterback role which he just is not suited for.
I think Nakamba will really come to the fore this season
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Toronto Villa on August 09, 2021, 02:53:13 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Drummond on August 09, 2021, 11:10:40 AM
I just think it's nice we now seem to have the personnel to try different formations. Two forwards who are proven Premier League scorers, a raw talent returnoing from injury and a youngster coming through who can hold the ball up.

In midfield, we have wingers, a number of central midfielders and in defence we have strength in depth.

I wouldn't be surprised if we had a patchy start as we try to get going with all that but I'd hope, with the quality available, that we fly not long in.

I don't want us tied to one formation. Have a defined way of playing but have different systems based on circumstances or opponents. We have depth and flexibility to do different things now and likely to add a piece or two to stregthen a couple of areas.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: eamonn on August 09, 2021, 02:58:02 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Smithy on August 09, 2021, 11:43:00 AM
I like the fact that none us has any real confidence on what our 'best' 11 is when everyone is fit.  It's been a while since we've had the sort of depth needed to make the starting line-up so difficult.  It also bodes well for having genuine game changers on the bench - maybe we'll see Dean be more proactive with subs now he's got some actual quality sitting there?

I've no idea how he gets a team out there with Watkins, Ings, Buendia and Bailey all starting.  I look forward to seeing him try to make it work, but it feels like it would be a team that would win or 5-4 each week.  I'm guessing the reality is one of them will be on the bench with Traore and AEG?

Sure, it's great to have a deep squad and not  know what your best team is. But with a few days to kick-off, most of our new signings barely having arrived, at this moment in time I'd prefer to know what our best team is. These lads need another month of pre-season to get to know each other and work on a new system now that our talisman is gone. I'm just glad our first few games are against weaker opposition. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on August 09, 2021, 04:38:16 PM
			

			

				If we have to pick a best 11 (and I'm not a massive fan of doing it right now because I think we're moving on from that now) I'd go something like this:

(https://i.ibb.co/4WNzDqL/lineup.png) (https://ibb.co/4WNzDqL)

Being asymmetrical will put loads of people off straight away but The focus would be to overload on our left as often as possible whilst keeping Emi2 and Cash as massive threats on the right so Ings and Bailey can arrive into the box late. Ings being a bit deeper is a bit of a risk but I think he's a smart enough player to do a lot of the target man/link-up work in there behind Watkins who can focus on running the channels and moving defenders around. Defensively McGinn offers a bit of cover behind Bailey to allow him to stay high up the pitch and the battling defensive work from Buendia means he can cover in the middle or help Cash.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: cdbearsfan on August 09, 2021, 05:38:38 PM
			

			

				It's not symmetrical you maniac! 😟😟😟
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on August 09, 2021, 05:47:15 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on August 09, 2021, 05:38:38 PM
It's not symmetrical you maniac! 😟😟😟

I'm with you 100% on three at the back, but this slavish adherence to symmetry is marking you out as a dinosaur. I'd be playing four left backs at left back for a start.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on August 09, 2021, 05:49:45 PM
			

			

				The 80 81 82 team was not symmetrical.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: brontebilly on August 09, 2021, 05:56:02 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Monty on August 09, 2021, 11:32:57 AM
I've always been keen on the diamond, but I don't really see how our players suit it right now. Unless you drop one of Bailey, Ings or Watkins. Which I guess is the definition of a nice problem.

Problem with the diamond formation is your full backs need to be very strong defensively as you can get overloaded on the flanks. Cash in particular still has a lot to learn on the defensive side of his game. Think it helped Targett to have Grealish on his flank as it tied up at least one opposition player usually and sometimes two.  
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: cdbearsfan on August 09, 2021, 06:01:30 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on August 09, 2021, 05:47:15 PM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on August 09, 2021, 05:38:38 PM
It's not symmetrical you maniac! 😟😟😟

I'm with you 100% on three at the back, but this slavish adherence to symmetry is marking you out as a dinosaur. I'd be playing four left backs at left back for a start.

Switch that to picking four right backs and you've got the England job in the bag.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: not3bad on August 09, 2021, 06:44:55 PM
			

			

				Is it time to consider rush goalie?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Steve67 on August 09, 2021, 08:20:26 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: not3bad on August 09, 2021, 06:44:55 PM
Is it time to consider rush goalie?

Good shout.  The size of Martinez, midfield unit enforcer DCM? 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: rooboy316 on August 10, 2021, 03:42:23 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: brontebilly on August 09, 2021, 05:56:02 PM

Problem with the diamond formation is your full backs need to be very strong defensively as you can get overloaded on the flanks. Cash in particular still has a lot to learn on the defensive side of his game. Think it helped Targett to have Grealish on his flank as it tied up at least one opposition player usually and sometimes two.  

Good point. I think this contributed greatly to Targett's break out season last year. Even when he bombed forward, he had more space as Grealish sucked in defenders, and then would put release balls through to Targett. I know preseasons don't mean a great deal, but this was noticeable, particularly against Salernitana. So much of our attacking play came through the left last year, and relied on Grealish being confident enough to run at defenders with the ball which created space for others. Lots of running into dead ends and passing backwards down the left over the preseason.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: eamonn on August 10, 2021, 04:04:36 PM
			

			

				A Spanish journalist talking about Messi on BBC but could have been speaking of you know who:

Quote
This move was going to happen at some point... he is a very gravitational player. A lot happens from him and he takes a lot of responsibility on his shoulders and I do believe that some other players have alluded responsibility when Messi was on the pitch. Not because they were lazy or anything like that but because they were too respectful of the teammate they had because he was clearly better than them.

I hope Dean has an "oven-ready" plan.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: LeeB on August 10, 2021, 04:07:01 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: eamonn on August 10, 2021, 04:04:36 PM
A Spanish journalist talking about Messi on BBC but could have been speaking of you know who:

Quote
This move was going to happen at some point... he is a very gravitational player. A lot happens from him and he takes a lot of responsibility on his shoulders and I do believe that some other players have alluded responsibility when Messi was on the pitch. Not because they were lazy or anything like that but because they were too respectful of the teammate they had because he was clearly better than them.

I hope Dean has an "oven-ready" plan.

Christ, if he has I hope it’s better than the Brexit one.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on August 10, 2021, 04:08:13 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: LeeB on August 10, 2021, 04:07:01 PM
Quote from: eamonn on August 10, 2021, 04:04:36 PM
A Spanish journalist talking about Messi on BBC but could have been speaking of you know who:

Quote
This move was going to happen at some point... he is a very gravitational player. A lot happens from him and he takes a lot of responsibility on his shoulders and I do believe that some other players have alluded responsibility when Messi was on the pitch. Not because they were lazy or anything like that but because they were too respectful of the teammate they had because he was clearly better than them.

I hope Dean has an "oven-ready" plan.

Christ, if he has I hope it’s better than the Brexit one.

Well we signed an overseas player, so it must be.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Footy-Vill on August 11, 2021, 09:06:18 PM
			

			

				Dean Smith made a statement that Aston Villa were 18 months behind where they needed to be to keep hold of star Jack Grealish this summer.

So is Dean suggesting we are a near season away from Champions League football?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: purpletrousers on August 11, 2021, 09:28:10 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Footy-Vill on August 11, 2021, 09:06:18 PM
Dean Smith made a statement that Aston Villa were 18 months behind where they needed to be to keep hold of star Jack Grealish this summer.

So is Dean suggesting we are a near season away from Champions League football?

Perhaps the most optimistic/best case scenario with the perfect recruitment. And as per another thread, Dean has actually achieved pretty much what could be asked of him at every step so far.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Footy-Vill on August 11, 2021, 09:30:36 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: purpletrousers on August 11, 2021, 09:28:10 PM
Quote from: Footy-Vill on August 11, 2021, 09:06:18 PM
Dean Smith made a statement that Aston Villa were 18 months behind where they needed to be to keep hold of star Jack Grealish this summer.

So is Dean suggesting we are a near season away from Champions League football?

Perhaps the most optimistic/best case scenario with the perfect recruitment. And as per another thread, Dean has actually achieved pretty much what could be asked of him at every step so far.
I has really hoped last season was a possibility!
Very close at times  just Iver course if season we just missed out.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on August 12, 2021, 04:25:41 PM
			

			

				O'Kelly has left.
https://twitter.com/AVFCOfficial/status/1425840655775981576
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Matt C on August 12, 2021, 04:28:22 PM
			

			

				A few days before the start of the season… seems odd? 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on August 12, 2021, 04:29:46 PM
			

			

				I hope his health is Ok.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: KRS on August 12, 2021, 04:30:03 PM
			

			

				Very strange. Either something going on behind the scenes or we’ve lined up a replacement? No explanation doesn’t help.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: villadelph on August 12, 2021, 04:30:40 PM
			

			

				Jesus, first Terry now O'Kelly.. 

Shakespeare is still on board right? 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Monty on August 12, 2021, 04:32:18 PM
			

			

				Well it seems very amicable. Let's hope everything's okay with him.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Tuscans on August 12, 2021, 04:38:57 PM
			

			

				I reckon Smith see's someone else available with a better attacking vision and brighter ideas, hence the departing, especially when after 2 days of being at City you hear Jack say, "the tactics here are out of this world".
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ExclDawg on August 12, 2021, 04:40:27 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Tuscans on August 12, 2021, 04:38:57 PM
I reckon Smith see's someone else available with a better attacking vision and brighter ideas, hence the departing, especially when after 2 days of being at City you hear Jack say, "the tactics here are out of this world".

That seems like something that should have happened in June.  Not a few days before the season starts.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: villabear on August 12, 2021, 04:43:28 PM
			

			

				The timing of this seems odd unless his health has dictated his decision. He seemed well on board when there was that video of him meeting Buendia. Haven’t him and Smith always worked together?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Mister E on August 12, 2021, 04:44:18 PM
			

			

				Very strange.
Perhaps we're bringing Terry back?!!
No, seriously, it seems (I hope) that someone is coming in to effectively replace both.
The timing is bizarre.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Dante Lavelli on August 12, 2021, 04:49:58 PM
			

			

				Pre-season has been a bit of a disaster.  O’Kelly and Terry leaving, two games called off, smith catching COVID.  Hardly ideal.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: CT on August 12, 2021, 04:52:59 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on August 12, 2021, 04:29:46 PM
I hope his health is Ok.

Firstly, this. Secondly, if not health related, this isn’t good. He’s been Dean’s right hand man for ages now. 

Three days before the season starts? 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Steve67 on August 12, 2021, 04:53:59 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Dante Lavelli on August 12, 2021, 04:49:58 PM
Pre-season has been a bit of a disaster.  O’Kelly and Terry leaving, two games called off, smith catching COVID.  Hardly ideal.

And still no Bailey or a DCM! 🤪
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Mister E on August 12, 2021, 04:57:33 PM
			

			

				Perhaps this is Deano streamlining his team: he had Shaky, Terry, O'Kelly and Cuttler in his ear; too many inputs?
Doesn't explain the bizarre timing, though.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on August 12, 2021, 05:02:43 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Steve67 on August 12, 2021, 04:53:59 PM
Quote from: Dante Lavelli on August 12, 2021, 04:49:58 PM
Pre-season has been a bit of a disaster.  O’Kelly and Terry leaving, two games called off, smith catching COVID.  Hardly ideal.

And still no Bailey or a DCM! 🤪

Bailey was there today apparently.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Flin5tone on August 12, 2021, 05:04:12 PM
			

			

				I hope his Health is OK 
Surely a decision like this would be made at the start of the summer not a couple of Days before the season starts?

What the he'll is going on down there , first Terry now O'kelly.  He has been with Smith for years. This is very strange and does not look good at all. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: darren woolley on August 12, 2021, 05:08:59 PM
			

			

				Like others have said I hope his health is ok.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: berneboy on August 12, 2021, 05:09:43 PM
			

			

				I really would like to know what's going on. 
Maybe there have been relationship problems. Three/four is a crowd.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: purpletrousers on August 12, 2021, 05:11:53 PM
			

			

				Statement is all the usual (appropriate) rejoicing to the point it doesn’t make any sense to leave etc. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Chris Smith on August 12, 2021, 05:24:46 PM
			

			

				A 64 year old man stopping work isn’t really all that strange.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on August 12, 2021, 05:26:31 PM
			

			

				I'm not sure there's any need to be concerned yet, a good manager knows when he needs new voices to the group to progress and we've clearly seen that in the last 2 summers. I suspect that, given they're friends, Smith and O'Kelly have had a chat and agreed that this is the right time for him to move on.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Hookeysmith on August 12, 2021, 05:28:14 PM
			

			

				If you look back he was a prominent figure in the technical box when Dean first arrived and slowly he was seen less and less to the point not even in the dug out for the last few games IIRC.

Must admit in a world where timing and preparation is key this close season has been a bit of a dogs dinner - i really hope it does not affect our start.

And if Bailey was here / at BMH (even if isolating) you would think they would have images everywhere promoting it???
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: CT on August 12, 2021, 05:36:35 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Hookeysmith on August 12, 2021, 05:28:14 PM
If you look back he was a prominent figure in the technical box when Dean first arrived and slowly he was seen less and less to the point not even in the dug out for the last few games IIRC.

Must admit in a world where timing and preparation is key this close season has been a bit of a dogs dinner - i really hope it does not affect our start.

And if Bailey was here / at BMH (even if isolating) you would think they would have images everywhere promoting it???

Here’s one…
(https://i.ibb.co/ByL3xgd/814-E550-F-66-D4-449-D-A7-CB-4-BA5-F4-CD21-B6.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ByL3xgd)

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Lastfootstamper on August 12, 2021, 05:45:22 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Chris Smith on August 12, 2021, 05:24:46 PM
A 64 year old man stopping work isn’t really all that strange.
 
If, as many of us probably suspect, his role has been largely displaced by the arrival of Shakespeare, I too think it's nothing more than this. I don't think the timing's off, preseason is all but finished, no point in hanging around if you feel your work's done. Enjoy your retirement. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Demitri_C on August 12, 2021, 05:48:25 PM
			

			

				I would like to see someone like ashley young given a chance in a player coach capacity. His experience  could be very valuable. Groom him to be a future first team coach.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: eamonn on August 12, 2021, 05:57:35 PM
			

			

				We always seemed top-heavy with regard to first team coaches. I thought O'Kelly or Terry would have been on their way when Shakespeare arrived. Add in Neil Cutler, who as a goalie coach, seems to be as heavily involved during in-match discussions on the touchline as the other four. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on August 12, 2021, 05:57:55 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on August 12, 2021, 05:45:22 PM
Quote from: Chris Smith on August 12, 2021, 05:24:46 PM
A 64 year old man stopping work isn’t really all that strange.
 
If, as many of us probably suspect, his role has been largely displaced by the arrival of Shakespeare, I too think it's nothing more than this. I don't think the timing's off, preseason is all but finished, no point in hanging around if you feel your work's done. Enjoy your retirement. 

That's a good point. He could've flagged his desire to stop before the summer, and saw out pre-season before avoiding the season proper.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on August 12, 2021, 06:09:42 PM
			

			

				if you want to believe things are falling apart behind the scenes then you can 
if you want to believe there's nothing out of the ordinary then you can

after the Grealish affair i don't know what to think anymore
some on here were telling us he wasn't going anywhere, his heart was at the club and everything was turned to that narrative
everything was ok, he loves it here
while the whole time it turns out he's been trying to get out for the last two years ffs

so when an assistant coach leaves two days before the season starts forgive me for thinking its not exactly normal preparations
as others have said hope he's ok 
and if he is there's probably more to it but iv'e no idea what 

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: brontebilly on August 12, 2021, 06:13:15 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Chris Smith on August 12, 2021, 05:24:46 PM
A 64 year old man stopping work isn’t really all that strange.

Three days before the season starts is very strange. Same with Terry really, if they both wished to stop for whatever reason surely the end of last season was the time for announcements. Shakespeare and Cutler do seem more involved with Smith for the in game discussions. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Pete3206 on August 12, 2021, 06:14:25 PM
			

			

				Jeez, cheer up.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: VILLA MOLE on August 12, 2021, 06:14:35 PM
			

			

				didnt Sir Alec freshen his coaching staff up every so often the red nosed bugger ?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ozzjim on August 12, 2021, 06:24:01 PM
			

			

				Preece in the bham mail has said it was a huge shock to them all, and that as recently as Sunday he was bossing people around as normal. I think we might be in for a bumpy old season. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Dave on August 12, 2021, 06:32:53 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: CT on August 12, 2021, 05:36:35 PM
Quote from: Hookeysmith on August 12, 2021, 05:28:14 PM
If you look back he was a prominent figure in the technical box when Dean first arrived and slowly he was seen less and less to the point not even in the dug out for the last few games IIRC.

Must admit in a world where timing and preparation is key this close season has been a bit of a dogs dinner - i really hope it does not affect our start.

And if Bailey was here / at BMH (even if isolating) you would think they would have images everywhere promoting it???

Here’s one…
(https://i.ibb.co/ByL3xgd/814-E550-F-66-D4-449-D-A7-CB-4-BA5-F4-CD21-B6.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ByL3xgd)

Here's another. 

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E8mtS-zXoAUo5KC?format=jpg)
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: BC54 VFC on August 12, 2021, 06:35:18 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: villadelph on August 12, 2021, 04:30:40 PM
Jesus, first Terry now O'Kelly.. 

Shakespeare is still on board right? 
Well I hope he's not been Bard.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Hookeysmith on August 12, 2021, 06:36:22 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: ozzjim on August 12, 2021, 06:24:01 PM
Preece in the bham mail has said it was a huge shock to them all, and that as recently as Sunday he was bossing people around as normal. I think we might be in for a bumpy old season. 

If it was health then it would be a planned exit you would imagine and would not be seemingly knee jerk 

If it was planned all along then,like with Terry, it would of been announced earlier before close season preparation.

If it was a fall out then that leans towards a snap decision and that (unless we get a full explanation) is the favourite option im afraid.

If it is the latter then I have no idea what it could be unless he felt undermined with Shakespeare 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on August 12, 2021, 06:37:37 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Dave on August 12, 2021, 06:32:53 PM
Quote from: CT on August 12, 2021, 05:36:35 PM
Quote from: Hookeysmith on August 12, 2021, 05:28:14 PM
If you look back he was a prominent figure in the technical box when Dean first arrived and slowly he was seen less and less to the point not even in the dug out for the last few games IIRC.

Must admit in a world where timing and preparation is key this close season has been a bit of a dogs dinner - i really hope it does not affect our start.

And if Bailey was here / at BMH (even if isolating) you would think they would have images everywhere promoting it???

Here’s one…
(https://i.ibb.co/ByL3xgd/814-E550-F-66-D4-449-D-A7-CB-4-BA5-F4-CD21-B6.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ByL3xgd)

Here's another. 

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E8mtS-zXoAUo5KC?format=jpg)

I think CT was talking about ROK Dave!
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: BC Villain on August 12, 2021, 06:59:03 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: paul_e on August 12, 2021, 05:26:31 PM
I'm not sure there's any need to be concerned yet, a good manager knows when he needs new voices to the group to progress and we've clearly seen that in the last 2 summers. I suspect that, given they're friends, Smith and O'Kelly have had a chat and agreed that this is the right time for him to move on.

This is a good point.  Ferguson was at manure for 25 years, but didn’t have the same coaching staff around him for those 25 years.  Sometimes managers need to freshen up their back room and take on views from different voices.  That said, ROK leaving now is odd timing.  Sincerely hope it's not health related.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: WarszaVillan on August 12, 2021, 07:16:03 PM
			

			

				I liked O'Kelly, one of the few old school coaches left as it all becomes statisticians with ipads
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Bad English on August 12, 2021, 07:18:36 PM
			

			

				Given the way they pulled Ings out of the hat, it would not surprise me if tomorrow they slapped a pic on Pravda of some top coach in his new Villa training kit shaking hands with Dean.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: dave shelley on August 12, 2021, 07:19:50 PM
			

			

				What with one thing or another I've felt uncomfortable all this closed season.  The will he won't he saga, Terry's departure, cancelled pre-season games and now ROK leaving doesn't give us the best preparation.  I hope the new players hit the ground running and we get the additions most of us feel are needed.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Dante Lavelli on August 12, 2021, 07:25:54 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Bad English on August 12, 2021, 07:18:36 PM
Given the way they pulled Ings out of the hat, it would not surprise me if tomorrow they slapped a pic on Pravda of some top coach in his new Villa training kit shaking hands with Dean.

Is there such a bloke though?  I am sure there are good coaches about but most the best ones would be managers.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: cdward on August 12, 2021, 07:39:12 PM
			

			

				In Shakespeare we have a good coach, and Neil Cutler always looks like he is actively involved. 
We do now have a set piece specialist coach, so maybe it’s just the evolution of a progressive football club.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Richard E on August 12, 2021, 08:07:12 PM
			

			

				I’d heard that we were bringing in Geronimo the alpaca to replace him.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: usav on August 12, 2021, 08:09:01 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: cdward on August 12, 2021, 07:39:12 PM
In Shakespeare we have a good coach, and Neil Cutler always looks like he is actively involved. 

Agree - I mentioned this months ago, Cutler seems way more involved than just being the keeper coach.   I almost felt like we had too many coaches.....not sure how we stack up against other teams.....don't really pay much attention beyond the 'boss'.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ads on August 12, 2021, 08:09:57 PM
			

			

				Seems he's had enough. Was taking a backseat anyway and I think perhaps age/time has just caught up with him.

No acrimony and nothing to suggest a rift, so suggests it's personal.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: OzVilla on August 12, 2021, 08:32:32 PM
			

			

				Poor timing in a preseason that quite frankly has been chaotic looking from the outside. Not a great feeling to be taking into a new season.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on August 12, 2021, 08:32:33 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Ads on August 12, 2021, 08:09:57 PM
Seems he's had enough. Was taking a backseat anyway and I think perhaps age/time has just caught up with him.

No acrimony and nothing to suggest a rift, so suggests it's personal.

Exactly, he's 64 we already have changes in the coaching team this summer he probably felt it was the right time to step back, there's literally no evidence that this, or the Terry departure are anything to worry about but in both cases we've had people inventing conspiracies because they can't believe that people might just decide they want to go and the club might just agree to it. Personally I think it's sensible to change things up every now and then in coaching roles because new people brings new ideas and means everyone is always learning something new.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on August 12, 2021, 08:34:23 PM
			

			

				It's slightly odd timing, but I can't see that it's really a biggie. Shakespeare is clearly the proper number 2, and it would have a much bigger deal had he left.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: OCD on August 12, 2021, 08:36:33 PM
			

			

				I think it's natural to evolve as we grow. Not only do you need different ideas but you need to hear different voices too. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Small Rodent on August 12, 2021, 08:37:30 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on August 12, 2021, 08:34:23 PM
It's slightly odd timing, but I can't see that it's really a biggie. Shakespeare is clearly the proper number 2, and it would have a much bigger deal had he left.

Yep. It’s time for the Alan Partridge shrug gif 

But I don’t know how to do it.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: dave.woodhall on August 12, 2021, 09:41:38 PM
			

			

				It's surely the most disastrous thing to happen to us since the Glenn Roeder appointment. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Bad English on August 12, 2021, 10:08:59 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Dante Lavelli on August 12, 2021, 07:25:54 PM
Quote from: Bad English on August 12, 2021, 07:18:36 PM
Given the way they pulled Ings out of the hat, it would not surprise me if tomorrow they slapped a pic on Pravda of some top coach in his new Villa training kit shaking hands with Dean.

Is there such a bloke though?  I am sure there are good coaches about but most the best ones would be managers.
Fuck knows I was just wondering.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on August 13, 2021, 12:11:13 AM
			

			

				I reckon this shows Smith's strength more than anything else. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: nigel on August 13, 2021, 10:27:31 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Richard E on August 12, 2021, 08:07:12 PM
I’d heard that we were bringing in Geronimo the alpaca to replace him.

Very topical.
I’m sure he’d have to isolate first, though.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Footy-Vill on August 13, 2021, 12:22:06 PM
			

			

				Dean Smith such a hero! Lead us to the promised glory!
6 minute video Interview here from BT sports

https://www.bt.com/sport/watch/video/clips/2021/august/dean-smith-on-grealish-ings-and-all-things-villa-after-a-big-summer
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: eamonn on August 13, 2021, 01:30:57 PM
			

			

				Does he address the O'Kelly departure? He should be asked about it in his pre-match presser but all the dumb journalists will care about is Grealish-grief. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Damo70 on August 13, 2021, 01:53:44 PM
			

			

				Shakespeare will clearly be Dean Smith's number two and Cutler will be heavily involved too. I would also imagine another coach will be brought in. Richard O'Kelly is at retirement age and John Terry was always likely to move on eventually. We tend to have a habit of taking coaches for granted and then when they leave we big them up as if we won't survive without them.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: eamonn on August 13, 2021, 02:09:31 PM
			

			

				Hasn't retirement age gone up from 65, not down? Pity the poor young fcukers today who'll be working til they're closer to 80 than 70 (unless climate change kills them first).
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Mister E on August 13, 2021, 08:16:00 PM
			

			

				The whole coaching team are at Brentford this evening. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: OCD on August 13, 2021, 09:11:49 PM
			

			

				Well, 3 of them (that I saw). 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Footy-Vill on August 14, 2021, 12:13:03 AM
			

			

				Daily Mails Midlands sports man Tom Collomosse:
Dean Smith is now interviewing for a replacement assistant head coach, with his focus on someone who has worked in Europe rather than a traditional UK number two. 
Would expect Smith to add to his #avfc coaching staff after departures of Terry and O'Kelly. Perhaps an innovative appt - someone who has worked in other leagues, different cultures - rather than someone steeped in UK game.


Now this sounds exciting.


			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Scott Nielsen on August 14, 2021, 07:48:23 AM
			

			

				Yeah, that sounds like a good, progressive step forward. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on August 14, 2021, 08:22:02 AM
			

			

				Someone with European cup experts, has worked over seas, 

Tony Adam’s?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on August 14, 2021, 09:04:49 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: ChicagoLion on August 14, 2021, 08:22:02 AM
Someone with European cup experts, has worked over seas, 

Tony Adam’s?

I remain staggered that you once criticised my use of language.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on August 14, 2021, 09:10:08 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on August 14, 2021, 09:04:49 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on August 14, 2021, 08:22:02 AM
Someone with European cup experts, has worked over seas, 

Tony Adam’s?

I remain staggered that you once criticised my use of language.
the spell check on here does it’s thing. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: jwarry on August 14, 2021, 09:24:52 AM
			

			

				Interesting comments from Dean in recent interviews. He’s basically saying we had to play through Grealish because the team was unbalanced - so only plan A.  He thinks we now have the players to change things around when we need to even within games.  I really hope he’s right! 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: N'ZMAV on August 14, 2021, 09:55:07 AM
			

			

				he needed a plan B before
he needs a plan A and B now
I've got faith - but we'll have to adapt quick.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: brontebilly on August 14, 2021, 10:18:36 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: jwarry on August 14, 2021, 09:24:52 AM
Interesting comments from Dean in recent interviews. He’s basically saying we had to play through Grealish because the team was unbalanced - so only plan A.  He thinks we now have the players to change things around when we need to even within games.  I really hope he’s right!

Deano don't half talk utter twaddle at times 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on August 14, 2021, 10:23:48 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: brontebilly on August 14, 2021, 10:18:36 AM
Quote from: jwarry on August 14, 2021, 09:24:52 AM
Interesting comments from Dean in recent interviews. He’s basically saying we had to play through Grealish because the team was unbalanced - so only plan A.  He thinks we now have the players to change things around when we need to even within games.  I really hope he’s right!

Deano don't half talk utter twaddle at times
muddled
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: not3bad on August 14, 2021, 10:44:29 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: ChicagoLion on August 14, 2021, 10:23:48 AM
Quote from: brontebilly on August 14, 2021, 10:18:36 AM
Quote from: jwarry on August 14, 2021, 09:24:52 AM
Interesting comments from Dean in recent interviews. He’s basically saying we had to play through Grealish because the team was unbalanced - so only plan A.  He thinks we now have the players to change things around when we need to even within games.  I really hope he’s right!

Deano don't half talk utter twaddle at times
muddled
And yet if Villa do prove to be more flexible in their style of play this year, as we hope they will, we'll look back and say this was the moment that change came about.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: brontebilly on August 14, 2021, 10:56:26 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: not3bad on August 14, 2021, 10:44:29 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on August 14, 2021, 10:23:48 AM
Quote from: brontebilly on August 14, 2021, 10:18:36 AM
Quote from: jwarry on August 14, 2021, 09:24:52 AM
Interesting comments from Dean in recent interviews. He’s basically saying we had to play through Grealish because the team was unbalanced - so only plan A.  He thinks we now have the players to change things around when we need to even within games.  I really hope he’s right!

Deano don't half talk utter twaddle at times
muddled
And yet if Villa do prove to be more flexible in their style of play this year, as we hope they will, we'll look back and say this was the moment that change came about.

Sure...but that hardly excuses some of the efforts without Grealish during Smiths reign to date. With the exception of McGinn, nearly every other player in the squad has been signed during his time in charge. The lack of a plan b lied solely with him.

Anyway, new season, new ambitions etc
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Chris Smith on August 14, 2021, 10:56:28 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: brontebilly on August 14, 2021, 10:18:36 AM
Quote from: jwarry on August 14, 2021, 09:24:52 AM
Interesting comments from Dean in recent interviews. He’s basically saying we had to play through Grealish because the team was unbalanced - so only plan A.  He thinks we now have the players to change things around when we need to even within games.  I really hope he’s right!

Deano don't half talk utter twaddle at times 

He’s right though. It probably wasn’t explicit but our former number 10 was by far our most creative and threatening player and the rest of the team tended to rely on him to create. The performances when he wasn’t available clearly show that. We will have more options this season if the players perform to the level needed.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: PeterWithe on August 14, 2021, 11:42:06 AM
			

			

				Cant see this posted. From the EM

Quote
Dean Smith doesn't want his exciting new signings to become superstars to replace one-time poster boy Jack Grealish - he wants Aston Villa to become "a super team".

The boss has spent £95million this summer on a new, purposeful forward line of Emi Buendia, Leon Bailey and Danny Ings.

Villa acted quickly after Grealish's £100million sale with all three signed, sealed and delivered before their ex-captain put pen to paper on his six-year Man City contract.

It was Villa centre-back Ezri Konsa who spoke of the annoyance this past week of being branded a one-man team last season amid Grealish's involvement but, on the eve of the new Premier League campaign, it's Smith who insists there's a greater togetherness amongst his new-look squad.

With Villa boasting the likes of Bailey, Ings and Ollie Watkins, the boss was asked about Villa's next hero, but said: "Rather than becoming superstars, they want to become a super team. I think there is a great togetherness.

"Not just the quality of the players we are bringing in, but the characters of the players, will improve us. The personalities of Danny Ings, Emi Buendia, Axel (Tuanzebe) and Ashley Young.

"I've not really got to know Leon yet but I think there is going to be a great togetherness within that dressing room and one with a winning mentality."

Smith was also quizzed on perhaps playing a different system without Grealish knowing he started with a front two of Ings and Watkins for their final pre-season match against Serie A newcomers Salernitana last weekend.

"It's not so much about playing in a different way," Smith told the Birmingham Mail. "I just feel there was an over-reliance at times on Jack. I think everybody could see that.

"He's a top quality player – he must have been to go for £100million – but he's not gone from the Dog & Duck to Man City. He's gone from a historic football club who have won a European Cup. There are a lot of coaches who have worked with Jack to help develop him into the player he is today. We wish him well. He'd done it the right way. And our job then was to move forward.

"We had a Plan A and a Plan B. If Jack stayed, we were always bringing in Emi Buendia to take that burden of creativity off that Jack and add to what we have with Anwar El Ghazi and Bertrand Traoré.


"Jack’s departure enabled us to go and get Leon Bailey and Danny Ings as well. Then, with Axel Tuanzebe and Ashley Young, I believe they will make us into a better team.

"We also felt they were players we needed. I have always wanted more pace and creativity and not have an over-reliance on Jack. That's what I felt we have dealt with.

"But, yes, being labelled a one-man team has been a motivating factor. We know what a unique player and character Jack was but somebody had to get him the ball. He didn’t do that himself."

Manager Smith, meanwhile, firmly believes his Villa side can gatecrash those European places this season thanks to the constant backing of the owners, Nassef Sawiris and Wes Edens, who've bankrolled the club to the tune of £300million in transfer fees to date.

"The owners believe there’s an opportunity for us (to make Europe) and hence spending the money on Buendia whether Jack left or stayed," he added. "That was an important acquisition for us to help us improve. We have been very astute and I’m thankful for the leadership we’ve had from our owners.

"But we've always had a strategic plan here. I keep talking about getting promoted, staying up, improving the quality of the starting XI, and then improving the quality of the depth. It takes time when you get into the Premier League. So many teams have a head start on you, and we've had to play catch up. We think we're getting into a really good position now to establish ourselves in the top half of the league."

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: algy on August 14, 2021, 12:59:19 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: PeterWithe on August 14, 2021, 11:42:06 AM
Cant see this posted. From the EM

Quote
"He's a top quality player – he must have been to go for £100million – but he's not gone from the Dog & Duck to Man City. He's gone from a historic football club who have won a European Cup. There are a lot of coaches who have worked with Jack to help develop him into the player he is today. We wish him well. He'd done it the right way. And our job then was to move forward.
Hehe
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Demitri_C on August 14, 2021, 04:26:44 PM
			

			

				Pathetic absolutely diabolical

Your jobs on the line for me

Unacceptable 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: CT on August 14, 2021, 04:30:53 PM
			

			

				I bet Wilma is warming up his fingers as we speak. 

No ones job is on the line after 70 minutes of one game, no matter how shit it is. 

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: murgsy on August 14, 2021, 04:43:48 PM
			

			

				I know it is an over-reaction but would love to see someone like Potter at Villa
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Rudy65 on August 14, 2021, 04:47:52 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: murgsy on August 14, 2021, 04:43:48 PM
I know it is an over-reaction but would love to see someone like Potter at Villa

behave
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Demitri_C on August 14, 2021, 04:48:59 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: CT on August 14, 2021, 04:30:53 PM
I bet Wilma is warming up his fingers as we speak. 

No ones job is on the line after 70 minutes of one game, no matter how shit it is.

Smiths record without grealish is pants

If we dont have an improvement in next 7 or 8 he has to go for me
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ad@m on August 14, 2021, 04:56:46 PM
			

			

				It's not been the best start to life without Grealish has it. 

Dean needs to work out how to win without Jack pronto.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: PaulTheVillan on August 14, 2021, 04:57:30 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Ad@m on August 14, 2021, 04:56:46 PM
It's not been the best start to life without Grealish has it. 

Dean needs to work out how to win without Jack pronto.

Yeah because he’s had so much time to sort it out
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: pauliewalnuts on August 14, 2021, 04:57:34 PM
			

			

				What is consistent under Dean is how many times we play matches completely ceding the centre of midfield.

It seems to be almost every match and today was another great example.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Demitri_C on August 14, 2021, 04:58:54 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: PaulTheVillan on August 14, 2021, 04:57:30 PM
Quote from: Ad@m on August 14, 2021, 04:56:46 PM
It's not been the best start to life without Grealish has it. 

Dean needs to work out how to win without Jack pronto.

Yeah because he’s had so much time to sort it out

What about last year? Didnt have a clue what to do.




			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Vegas on August 14, 2021, 05:00:52 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on August 14, 2021, 04:57:34 PM
What is consistent under Dean is how many times we play matches completely ceding the centre of midfield.

It seems to be almost every match and today was another great example.

Agreed, but isn’t that just because we don’t have very good centre  midfielders?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Monty on August 14, 2021, 05:03:27 PM
			

			

				I know there are absentees, I know it'll take time to gel, but man alive that was tactically poor as well. Buendìa was poor, but thrust that close to Ings he was always receiving the ball with his back to goal - how is that any sort of good idea? And because of that gap between the deep two and the front two, McGinn was constantly having to play a three man midfield virtually by himself.

But the worst thing, the absolute worst thing, is that we look like we have no plans in attack. The best coaches at the best teams practice these movements, these patterns to pull apart massed defences, and even with Grealish last year we look like we have none of that. We look laboured, slow, ponderous, we spend so often with one guy on the ball just waiting in vain for a movement up front, or else trying to burst through himself because there's no structured way to do it. Our plan was always to counterattack or rely on moments of genius; well, the genius is gone, and you don't finish top 8 if all you do is counterattack.

Ramsey was bright enough when he came on and Ash looked very competent at left back, much more so than at left wing, but the damage was done. Tactically, a shocking day. And not for the first time.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: wince on August 14, 2021, 05:07:54 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: PaulTheVillan on August 14, 2021, 04:57:30 PM
Quote from: Ad@m on August 14, 2021, 04:56:46 PM
It's not been the best start to life without Grealish has it. 

Dean needs to work out how to win without Jack pronto.

Yeah because he’s had so much time to sort it out
He had 3 months last season to try something. With a wafer midfield like that result will be the same. I don’t expect anything next week if we play like that and the pressure needs to be on now as I reckon. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on August 14, 2021, 05:10:19 PM
			

			

				Never mind a one man team, he's a one man manager. His record without Greasy is abysmal.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Demitri_C on August 14, 2021, 05:13:12 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on August 14, 2021, 05:10:19 PM
Never mind a one man team, he's a one man manager. His record without Greasy is abysmal.

Exactly. Its not one game. Its more than 10
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on August 14, 2021, 05:13:39 PM
			

			

				Grealish has carried this team for the last 3 season 


			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: pauliewalnuts on August 14, 2021, 05:13:41 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Vegas on August 14, 2021, 05:00:52 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on August 14, 2021, 04:57:34 PM
What is consistent under Dean is how many times we play matches completely ceding the centre of midfield.

It seems to be almost every match and today was another great example.

Agreed, but isn’t that just because we don’t have very good centre  midfielders?

But he's had two and a half seasons to fix that.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: PaulTheVillan on August 14, 2021, 05:16:02 PM
			

			

				He should be sacked for picking El Ghazi :)
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: eamonn on August 14, 2021, 05:16:08 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: murgsy on August 14, 2021, 04:43:48 PM
I know it is an over-reaction but would love to see someone like Potter at Villa

Swap one Villa man for another.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ez on August 14, 2021, 05:20:49 PM
			

			

				Smith had another stinker today. Again not responding to the danger signs until we're losing. He simply must break that habit.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: villadelph on August 14, 2021, 05:23:08 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: PaulTheVillan on August 14, 2021, 04:57:30 PM
Quote from: Ad@m on August 14, 2021, 04:56:46 PM
It's not been the best start to life without Grealish has it. 

Dean needs to work out how to win without Jack pronto.

Yeah because he’s had so much time to sort it out

He had a third of a season last year to create some semblance of a strategy. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: wince on August 14, 2021, 05:23:57 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: eamonn on August 14, 2021, 05:16:08 PM
Quote from: murgsy on August 14, 2021, 04:43:48 PM
I know it is an over-reaction but would love to see someone like Potter at Villa

Swap one Villa man for another.

Need better than that. I’m not saying dean needs to go now or even this season if he improves, but when time comes I don’t want a villa man in the side living his dream. I want an absolute bastard. Dean is just too nice. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: sickbeggar on August 14, 2021, 05:26:25 PM
			

			

				Worse thing for me is he sat there last night and saw Brentford do Arsenal, and then sends out a team with that half-arsed performance! They've just come up, you're gonna have to match them for effort at least.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Villan82 on August 14, 2021, 05:26:32 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: ez on August 14, 2021, 05:20:49 PM
Smith had another stinker today. Again not responding to the danger signs until we're losing. He simply must break that habit.

Sarr tormented us from the kick off. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on August 14, 2021, 05:26:55 PM
			

			

				Team selection was always going to be difficult.

Bailey would've obviously started in normal circumstances but he's been in the country about 5 days. If he had his time again he'd have started Ramsey and probably benched Buendia with his lack of fitness but probably worried about lack of creativity otherwise so felt he had to start.

Can see reasons for Young and AEG starting.

My main issue today is Targett was having a shocker after 15 minutes up v Sarr and DS did nothing up to 40 minutes, no tweaks to our shape or system or even the extreme case of bringing on Ramsey after 30 minutes to try to stop Watford getting balls over to Sarr as it was far too easy for them and that tactic worked a treat.

That's simply my problem with how good DS can be for us at top level of premier league. He just dithers too much sometimes and trusts the players to sort it out on the pitch. Sometimes like today they don't have the answers and really 3-2 defeat is a very flattering scoreline as we didn't create anything for first 70 minutes.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: eamonn on August 14, 2021, 05:38:28 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: wince on August 14, 2021, 05:23:57 PM
Quote from: eamonn on August 14, 2021, 05:16:08 PM
Quote from: murgsy on August 14, 2021, 04:43:48 PM
I know it is an over-reaction but would love to see someone like Potter at Villa

Swap one Villa man for another.

Need better than that. I’m not saying dean needs to go now or even this season if he improves, but when time comes I don’t want a villa man in the side living his dream. I want an absolute bastard. Dean is just too nice. 

Graham Potter is even nicer. No edge to him at all. Great coach though.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: CT on August 14, 2021, 05:43:12 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: eamonn on August 14, 2021, 05:38:28 PM
Quote from: wince on August 14, 2021, 05:23:57 PM
Quote from: eamonn on August 14, 2021, 05:16:08 PM
Quote from: murgsy on August 14, 2021, 04:43:48 PM
I know it is an over-reaction but would love to see someone like Potter at Villa

Swap one Villa man for another.

Need better than that. I’m not saying dean needs to go now or even this season if he improves, but when time comes I don’t want a villa man in the side living his dream. I want an absolute bastard. Dean is just too nice. 

Graham Potter is even nicer. No edge to him at all. Great coach though.

Graham Potter has a beard now though. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: eamonn on August 14, 2021, 05:45:39 PM
			

			

				Good. Hopefully it will give him a Brummie shoot-from-the-hip confidence. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: wince on August 14, 2021, 05:46:56 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: CT on August 14, 2021, 05:43:12 PM
Quote from: eamonn on August 14, 2021, 05:38:28 PM
Quote from: wince on August 14, 2021, 05:23:57 PM
Quote from: eamonn on August 14, 2021, 05:16:08 PM
Quote from: murgsy on August 14, 2021, 04:43:48 PM
I know it is an over-reaction but would love to see someone like Potter at Villa

Swap one Villa man for another.

Need better than that. I’m not saying dean needs to go now or even this season if he improves, but when time comes I don’t want a villa man in the side living his dream. I want an absolute bastard. Dean is just too nice. 

Graham Potter is even nicer. No edge to him at all. Great coach though.

Graham Potter has a beard now though.
Still not sold on him
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Tayls_7 on August 14, 2021, 05:56:56 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: wince on August 14, 2021, 05:46:56 PM
Quote from: CT on August 14, 2021, 05:43:12 PM
Quote from: eamonn on August 14, 2021, 05:38:28 PM
Quote from: wince on August 14, 2021, 05:23:57 PM
Quote from: eamonn on August 14, 2021, 05:16:08 PM
Quote from: murgsy on August 14, 2021, 04:43:48 PM
I know it is an over-reaction but would love to see someone like Potter at Villa

Swap one Villa man for another.

Need better than that. I’m not saying dean needs to go now or even this season if he improves, but when time comes I don’t want a villa man in the side living his dream. I want an absolute bastard. Dean is just too nice. 

Graham Potter is even nicer. No edge to him at all. Great coach though.

Graham Potter has a beard now though.
Still not sold on him

That's the future. 

(https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/456454208753922048/5OriBToZ.jpeg)
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Demitri_C on August 14, 2021, 06:05:33 PM
			

			

				If smith were to go we need to be looking at european coach with pedigree. 

All ifs and buts. Too soon to call for his head but i have massive reservations  about him having no plan B
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Monty on August 14, 2021, 06:08:36 PM
			

			

				He's gone on about 'intensity' in the post-match, and yes we did lack it, but also our tactics left gaping chasms between the lines, which meant no cohesion going forward and huge trouble at the back if we lost the midfield duels - which, given it was 3-on-2 in their favour, we did rather a lot.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on August 14, 2021, 06:16:30 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Monty on August 14, 2021, 06:08:36 PM
He's gone on about 'intensity' in the post-match, and yes we did lack it, but also our tactics left gaping chasms between the lines, which meant no cohesion going forward and huge trouble at the back if we lost the midfield duels - which, given it was 3-on-2 in their favour, we did rather a lot.
the opposition look at that team sheet and know exactly what to do to dominate the midfield and get attacks on our fullbacks.
He had 2 of his new purchases in the team so I am not sure what his defence is. This was fuvking Watford a strong candidate for relegation who put 3 past us before reply ffs.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: sickbeggar on August 14, 2021, 06:19:13 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Demitri_C on August 14, 2021, 06:05:33 PM
If smith were to go we need to be looking at european coach with pedigree. 

All ifs and buts. Too soon to call for his head but i have massive reservations  about him having no plan B

yep I fear for him given the expectations from some. Early days but I can't see this side finishing any higher than last season. Already we're playing catch-up and the bottom line if you have aspirations for Europe you have to pick up something in these sort of games.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Demitri_C on August 14, 2021, 06:19:28 PM
			

			

				Im glad he is angry. If he tried saying we played well or came out with excuses that would have irritated me.

Cant criticise any of those comments. But he needs tl learn when we are getting battered on one side to change it quicker. He should have whipped targett off alot quicker. 

Targett was absymal and at fault fir the first and lost the ball again for the lead up to 2nd. He just bottled it after the first goal. Looked terrified.  I dont want to see that from our 1st choice left back
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: PaulWinch again on August 14, 2021, 06:23:02 PM
			

			

				Today reflects really really badly on Dean. We looked woefully underprepared and frankly unaware that we’d be facing a challenge. He needs to sort that out fast. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: PaulWinch again on August 14, 2021, 06:25:34 PM
			

			

				Oh and playing Ash as a winger was a fucking dreadful decision.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: KRS on August 14, 2021, 06:49:56 PM
			

			

				The whole rhetoric about replacing one player with three was always going to fall flat on its face…and it’s happened sooner rather than later. Yes we have signed 3 players that may or may not have all his attributes combined, but all it can realistically do at best is upgrade players that would have been on the pitch when he was out of the team. The timing clearly hasn’t helped with pre-season as we’re clearly undercooked and it’s far too early to be writing anyone off yet as the “replacements” need to bed in and we need to adjust our style of play to suit them accordingly. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on August 14, 2021, 07:08:42 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: KRS on August 14, 2021, 06:49:56 PM
The whole rhetoric about replacing one player with three was always going to fall flat on its face…and it’s happened sooner rather than later. Yes we have signed 3 players that may or may not have all his attributes combined, but all it can realistically do at best is upgrade players that would have been on the pitch when he was out of the team. The timing clearly hasn’t helped with pre-season as we’re clearly undercooked and it’s far too early to be writing anyone off yet as the “replacements” need to bed in and we need to adjust our style of play to suit them accordingly.
the first thing should have been solving the problem in central midfield.
No point in buying new furniture if the roof is still leaking.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: dave shelley on August 14, 2021, 07:19:08 PM
			

			

				Irrespective of next week's result Smith needs to make sure he puts out a full-strength side against Barrow.  Having had a fragmented pre-season these players need game time.  I accept there could be injuries but the same applies to pre-season friendlies as we have witnessed by the unavailability of Ollie Watkins today.  I don't think it would have made any difference as the problem lies with central mid-field and  has existed since our return to the Premier League and the manager has deemed fit to ignore it.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Villan82 on August 14, 2021, 07:26:28 PM
			

			

				Today just looked a bit half arsed.

As a club, we have learned the hard way that every single point matters. We have been a bit wasteful of points during Smith's tenure- losing too many games in my opinion. A game against a promoted side is a big opportunity to get points on the board and we just looked like we were still pre-season. It looked like an experimental line-up and we didn't turn up for the first half.

We need to put it right in the next game.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: eamonn on August 14, 2021, 08:33:25 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: PaulWinch again on August 14, 2021, 06:25:34 PM
Oh and playing Ash as a winger was a fucking dreadful decision.

Maybe Deano has been watching our season review videos circa 2007-2010.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: mr underhill on August 14, 2021, 08:42:43 PM
			

			

				the next few months will define Dean. He's been given riches beyond his wildest dreams andthere needs to be a return.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: London Villan on August 14, 2021, 08:44:41 PM
			

			

				AEG and 36 year old Ashley Young hardly strike fear into the opposition.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ASHTONVILLA on August 14, 2021, 09:04:42 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: London Villan on August 14, 2021, 08:44:41 PM
AEG and 36 year old Ashley Young hardly strike fear into the opposition.

Young played well at left back, which is where he should be playing if at all. For me he should start against Newcastle as Targett needs to know he gets dropped if he plays like that.

Bailey and Traore where far better when they came on, and I can only conclude they were not considered fit enough to start - hence AEG and Young playing.

I know hindsight is easy, but I'd have played McGinn where Buendia started, and put Bailey and Buendia on the wing with Traore and AEG on the bench if needed. Then put Ramsey next to Nakamba.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on August 14, 2021, 09:29:46 PM
			

			

				We can argue all we like but the owners simply won't be waiting years for him to come up with some coherent formation and strategy in the post G***lish era.

I'm sure they've studied our recent past and saw how wrong it quickly went in 2015 (and it obviously wasn't great in the seasons before that).

They and Purslow will simply look at it and say....we've given you millions and you now have two top class strikers in the squad, two reasonably proven creative players to replace you know who and also the guys you signed last summer like Traore. And an 18m midfielder signed in January aswell.

Make it work by by November is the simple brief I think once everyone is fully fit and settled.

They'll be looking at top level managers who have endless attacking players coming out of their ears yet produced structually sound teams.

O.k maybe unfair comparing DS to likes of Guardiola and Tuchel but give say Brendan Rodgers our squad and a pre season and I'm sure within a few months we'd be playing pretty well. Up to Dean to step up and do that rather than falling back down the table as we will do playing regularly like today. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Des Little on August 14, 2021, 09:35:01 PM
			

			

				It won’t take an ‘experienced European coach’ to see how piss weak we are in the middle of the park, that’s for sure. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ozzjim on August 14, 2021, 09:35:03 PM
			

			

				Couldn't agree more. Firmly believe Potter would be the bet if he doesn't get it together soon. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Steve67 on August 14, 2021, 09:43:35 PM
			

			

				I think it's too early to have the debate but I'd like NWSE to consider Antonio Conte if the time came for them to change. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Cliftonville Villlain on August 14, 2021, 09:49:41 PM
			

			

				If we genuinely have aspirations we need to be ruthless to get there so that no-one is in any doubt what is expected. We've had false dawns before but this one needs to count. We can't complain about the owners and I've every confidence in Dean despite today and more or less the second half of last season. I want him to do well but now it's the business end of things. It's endgame for him. And by November if its not working, Dean will probably be the first, as a Villa fan, to see it for what it is. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: brontebilly on August 14, 2021, 10:09:03 PM
			

			

				I'd be more critical of Smith than most but first game of the season often throws up strange results and performances. Bit of patience required I think (note, I didn't see the game...).
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: algy on August 14, 2021, 10:16:24 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: brontebilly on August 14, 2021, 10:09:03 PM
I'd be more critical of Smith than most but first game of the season often throws up strange results and performances. Bit of patience required I think (note, I didn't see the game...).
I'm less critical of Smith than most, but agree. It's one game, freak results happen. If the form continues through September then fair enough, there will be questions to answer. But right now, it's one game against a newly promoted side, playing in front of a crowd for the first time in ages, after a disrupted preseason. I'd not judge too quickly.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on August 14, 2021, 10:20:25 PM
			

			

				I think today was what a lot of us thought might continue to happen to a Smith side without Grealish.
Let’s face it the pre season preparation had been far from ideal, Terry, ROK a few days ago, lack of game time, players on extended breaks and then rushing through signings to try to make up for Plan A fucking off up the M6.
I blame Grealish more than Smith but Smith can not escape the blame for what happened today.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ozzjim on August 14, 2021, 10:38:08 PM
			

			

				I would be less worried if we had looked more dangerous in the games without Jack for the last 4 months of last season, but we hardly created chances. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on August 14, 2021, 10:39:25 PM
			

			

				Saddest thing for me today is that same as Brentford knew last night Watford knew we were there for the taking
They absolutely knew they could beat us 
They knew we were a soft touch

Take the game to Villa from the off and they’ll be behind before they know it
And so it turned out

All the warnings, all the signs were there of what was going to happen
And we did fuck all about it

Nothing zilch, Three nil behind to a team whose midfield maestro was Tom Cleverley

the players all lining up telling us they were pissed off at people saying they were a one-man team last season
And telling us they were going to prove they weren’t

Then getting rolled over by a bunch of twats from Watford




			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on August 14, 2021, 10:40:35 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: ChicagoLion on August 14, 2021, 10:20:25 PM
I think today was what a lot of us thought might continue to happen to a Smith side without Grealish.
Let’s face it the pre season preparation had been far from ideal, Terry, ROK a few days ago, lack of game time, players on extended breaks and then rushing through signings to try to make up for Plan A fucking off up the M6.
I blame Grealish more than Smith but Smith can not escape the blame for what happened today.

It’s no good blaming Grealish mate this is exactly the reason he fucked of 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: PaulWinch again on August 14, 2021, 10:42:41 PM
			

			

				The lack of preparation was evident from our inability to deal with Sarr. He’s an excellent player, and I wish we were in for him. We should have known he was their main threat and have had a plan to deal with that.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: passport1 on August 14, 2021, 10:42:49 PM
			

			

				I think it is a make or break season for Smith. Once again today there was evidence of slow tactical decision making. Targett was in trouble  from 5mins in,the decision to make a change should not have been postponed until half time. Giving a manager top dollar signings is half the battle. He needs to know how to use them.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ozzjim on August 14, 2021, 10:52:27 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: PaulWinch again on August 14, 2021, 10:42:41 PM
The lack of preparation was evident from our inability to deal with Sarr. He’s an excellent player, and I wish we were in for him. We should have known he was their main threat and have had a plan to deal with that.

Sarr showed exactly why he is so highly rated. Amazed he's not been snapped up by someone else this summer, but if Watford keep him they have a good chance of staying up. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Chris Price Hairstyle on August 14, 2021, 11:06:24 PM
			

			

				My only worry is that Dean gets enough time. I genuinely see him as a future England manager, I think he is that good (or at least potentially so). 

Let's put it down to a slow start after an unsettling pre-season and see where we go from here.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: AGRIPPA on August 14, 2021, 11:14:28 PM
			

			

				A lot of you on here give so much ammunition to the noses….. first game in and a lot of the talk is about rot…..that may be so bit judging on one game is delusional 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ROBBO on August 14, 2021, 11:16:08 PM
			

			

				The next few weeks are bigger for Dean Smith than they are for the team.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Villan82 on August 14, 2021, 11:17:32 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: john e on August 14, 2021, 10:40:35 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on August 14, 2021, 10:20:25 PM
I think today was what a lot of us thought might continue to happen to a Smith side without Grealish.
Let’s face it the pre season preparation had been far from ideal, Terry, ROK a few days ago, lack of game time, players on extended breaks and then rushing through signings to try to make up for Plan A fucking off up the M6.
I blame Grealish more than Smith but Smith can not escape the blame for what happened today.

It’s no good blaming Grealish mate this is exactly the reason he fucked of

He fucked off because he is not a real villa man, he is a tosser.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: eamonn on August 14, 2021, 11:27:23 PM
			

			

				There are no club men left unless they're at the biggest clubs, earning the most money. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: wince on August 15, 2021, 12:18:43 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: AGRIPPA on August 14, 2021, 11:14:28 PM
A lot of you on here give so much ammunition to the noses….. first game in and a lot of the talk is about rot…..that may be so bit judging on one game is delusional

Couldn’t give a fuck what the scabies halfwit alliance think. Only rot is in shite Andrews foundations. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: aj2k77 on August 15, 2021, 01:01:25 AM
			

			

				One things for sure, the owners wont bankroll us and put up with another long stretch of shit results.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: OzVilla on August 15, 2021, 05:48:55 AM
			

			

				The owners are in this for the long haul. However they won’t bankroll Dean Smith if we aren’t firing after 12 games. Same with any manager at a club that’s ambitious.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ozzjim on August 15, 2021, 06:19:41 AM
			

			

				Without Jack it is what, 13 points from our last 15 games ish? 

He needs 2-3 wins to get that off his back, but I can't recall a more disjointed pre season since MON left. I also can't recall a villa manager I have wanted to do as well as Dean Smith, but I really fear for him. I thought this season would be bumpy, watching yesterday back it going to be a long few weeks to get fitness and any style of play going.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: mr underhill on August 15, 2021, 07:03:56 AM
			

			

				like that's the first time we've heard the fitness arguement - same shity every year. And where the fuck is Sansom? Here eight months and hardly kicked a ball - it will be a year before he's up to snuff.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Villafirst on August 15, 2021, 07:35:49 AM
			

			

				I'm not convinced at his explanations over the sudden departures of JT & ROK, especially the latter at such short notice on the eve of the new season. Something isn't right. The pre-season has been badly disrupted with JG's antics on top.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: tony scott on August 15, 2021, 07:47:22 AM
			

			

				With the two coaches leaving it hints that all is not well behind the scenes, which is strange when all we are hearing is how well run we are. Why haven’t we recruited the physical DM this team needs, yet we have a lot of midfielders odd, anyway the Geordies next I didn’t think I’d have my fingers crossed so early in the season.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: PhilVill on August 15, 2021, 07:57:20 AM
			

			

				There’s something not right at the moment, very unusual for a coach to be off days before the start of the season, maybe a complete disagreement about formations/tactics that couldn’t be resolved? Anyhow, we are where we are and Smith must know that it needs turned around very quickly or he will be gone, no way will he be given the benefit of the doubt if they have a run of crap games this year. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: London Villan on August 15, 2021, 07:59:38 AM
			

			

				I mentioned it previously that the owners maybe holding on to see how the first half of the season goes before releasing more funds. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on August 15, 2021, 08:08:28 AM
			

			

				With the players apparently treating the 1st half vs Watford like a friendly that is as much down to Deano and the coaches that remain, as the players. It's not good enough and needs sorting. 
If there are issues behind the scene Purslow and NSWE need to get them sorted and Lange needs to beef up on incoming players before the transfer window closes, so Deano or any other manager (should the owners decide on a change) can take advantage of a full complement of players.
Having spent a large sum of money already the question has to be asked was it spent wisely on the right players if there are no further incomings?
Our preparations leading up to yesterday fell short not least because of the circus surrounding HWCBN. This seems unlike our owners and the way they work. If they're not going to communicate with the fans directly as is their way then their actions become even more important to convey all is well.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Villafirst on August 15, 2021, 08:22:37 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: London Villan on August 15, 2021, 07:59:38 AM
I mentioned it previously that the owners maybe holding on to see how the first half of the season goes before releasing more funds. 

No, they need to make money available now for a top-class DM. Everyone can see this glaring weakness except the management.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Clampy on August 15, 2021, 08:23:38 AM
			

			

				I see in true H&V style, some people are losing their shit after one defeat.

From the little of what I saw, there was a gaping hole in midfield and we looked weak down the left. Lets not panic though, we possibly hopefully have another singing to come in, Watkins and Luiz to come back and Bailey and Buendia will settle. Chill everyone. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: London Villan on August 15, 2021, 08:32:01 AM
			

			

				If we don't recruit a midfielder we'll need to play three from Marv, Doug, SJM, Sanson and Ramsey. One deep, the other two further forward.
 
Then three up front - which will be a challenge - from Ollie, Ings, Bailey, Buendia.


			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on August 15, 2021, 08:32:30 AM
			

			

				Smith has made great calls with the coaches.

We've got some great players in, who aren't yet fit or bedded into a system. We've lost a great player. Our main striker was out.

We've played one game. 

Pre season has been shortened by Copa America, Olympics and Euros and then we lost our main friendly to covid.

Ings scored. Bailey got an assist to a great McGinn finish. We showed signs (when it was too late but still, it was an improvement). 

Smith will be fine. 


			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: sickbeggar on August 15, 2021, 08:34:58 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Clampy on August 15, 2021, 08:23:38 AM
I see in true H&V style, some people are losing their shit after one defeat.

From the little of what I saw, there was a gaping hole in midfield and we looked weak down the left. Lets not panic though, we possibly hopefully have another singing to come in, Watkins and Luiz to come back and Bailey and Buendia will settle. Chill everyone.

A singing midfielder? Hoddle or Waddle maybe. or Gazza?  :)
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Clampy on August 15, 2021, 08:38:23 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: sickbeggar on August 15, 2021, 08:34:58 AM
Quote from: Clampy on August 15, 2021, 08:23:38 AM
I see in true H&V style, some people are losing their shit after one defeat.

From the little of what I saw, there was a gaping hole in midfield and we looked weak down the left. Lets not panic though, we possibly hopefully have another singing to come in, Watkins and Luiz to come back and Bailey and Buendia will settle. Chill everyone.

A singing midfielder? Hoddle or Waddle maybe. or Gazza?  :)

Haha, good spot. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: maidstonevillain on August 15, 2021, 08:46:47 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: London Villan on August 15, 2021, 08:32:01 AM
If we don't recruit a midfielder we'll need to play three from Marv, Doug, SJM, Sanson and Ramsey. One deep, the other two further forward.
 
Then three up front - which will be a challenge - from Ollie, Ings, Bailey, Buendia.



What about Traore. Changed the game yesterday I thought.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Rudy65 on August 15, 2021, 08:51:17 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: maidstonevillain on August 15, 2021, 08:46:47 AM
Quote from: London Villan on August 15, 2021, 08:32:01 AM
If we don't recruit a midfielder we'll need to play three from Marv, Doug, SJM, Sanson and Ramsey. One deep, the other two further forward.
 
Then three up front - which will be a challenge - from Ollie, Ings, Bailey, Buendia.



What about Traore. Changed the game yesterday I thought.

Agreed. He looked really up for it. I’d start him and Bailey next week
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Nunkin1965 on August 15, 2021, 08:59:40 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Clampy on August 15, 2021, 08:23:38 AM
I see in true H&V style, some people are losing their shit after one defeat.

From the little of what I saw, there was a gaping hole in midfield and we looked weak down the left. Lets not panic though, we possibly hopefully have another singing to come in, Watkins and Luiz to come back and Bailey and Buendia will settle. Chill everyone.

It's just the way it is after a defeat. Any defeat in fact and the negative is magnified and there was plenty of it yesterday.
But it is only one game of a new season and I'm sure we'll improve massively in the coming weeks.

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on August 15, 2021, 09:02:02 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Drummond on August 15, 2021, 08:32:30 AM
Smith has made great calls with the coaches.

We've got some great players in, who aren't yet fit or bedded into a system. We've lost a great player. Our main striker was out.

We've played one game. 

Pre season has been shortened by Copa America, Olympics and Euros and then we lost our main friendly to covid.

Ings scored. Bailey got an assist to a great McGinn finish. We showed signs (when it was too late but still, it was an improvement). 

Smith will be fine. 



Some great excuses there mate for an abject performance against a club tipped for relegation
I know you’ve got a large back catalogue but I am hoping you’re not going to be dipping into too much this season 


			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on August 15, 2021, 09:06:24 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Clampy on August 15, 2021, 08:23:38 AM
I see in true H&V style, some people are losing their shit after one defeat.

From the little of what I saw, there was a gaping hole in midfield and we looked weak down the left. Lets not panic though, we possibly hopefully have another singing to come in, Watkins and Luiz to come back and Bailey and Buendia will settle. Chill everyone. 

One persons losing their shit is anothers calling it out for exactly what it was
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Goldenballs on August 15, 2021, 09:18:28 AM
			

			

				Seemed the perfect storm of playing a promoted team away with fans back, them getting an early goal, then a big deflection just before HT. Then some guy scores a worldie.

But I do think this will be a season too far for Smith. Imo Grealish has carried him much further than his own ability. His tactics have always been give it to Jack, and fair enough when you have a world class player in your team. But his record without him vs with him is pathetic. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Rico on August 15, 2021, 09:32:05 AM
			

			

				Yeah, this is my worry to about Dean too. His record without Grealish is pathetic so its time to see if he is any good. I really hope he can do it because he is one of us, but we really need to push on now. Fingers crossed! 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Leicester_Villian on August 15, 2021, 09:39:43 AM
			

			

				Some folk make me feel ashamed to follow my club
We have lost one game and the haters are out already
Pre season has been very unfortunate with cancelled game’s departures of players and staff together with several being unavailable this week
Suggest the haters either get back in their box or go follow another team as they are not true supporters 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: London Villan on August 15, 2021, 09:40:08 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Rudy65 on August 15, 2021, 08:51:17 AM
Quote from: maidstonevillain on August 15, 2021, 08:46:47 AM
Quote from: London Villan on August 15, 2021, 08:32:01 AM
If we don't recruit a midfielder we'll need to play three from Marv, Doug, SJM, Sanson and Ramsey. One deep, the other two further forward.
 
Then three up front - which will be a challenge - from Ollie, Ings, Bailey, Buendia.



What about Traore. Changed the game yesterday I thought.

Agreed. He looked really up for it. I’d start him and Bailey next week

Yes agreed, add bert to that list too. So it’s three from five. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Allan C on August 15, 2021, 09:43:15 AM
			

			

				It’s not about Grealish, it is and was always about who replaced him when injured (or transferred) Yesterday yet again we had AEG and Marv starting both not PL quality. When we don’t have to rely on players such as those  we will improve 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Clampy on August 15, 2021, 09:45:37 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Leicester_Villian on August 15, 2021, 09:39:43 AM
Some folk make me feel ashamed to follow my club
We have lost one game and the haters are out already
Pre season has been very unfortunate with cancelled game’s departures of players and staff together with several being unavailable this week
Suggest the haters either get back in their box or go follow another team as they are not true supporters 

A chap I know who was there yesterday posted on Facebook  that some lads behind him were taking about relegation twenty minutes into the game. Some fans can be utterly ridiclous. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: andyh on August 15, 2021, 09:46:55 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Leicester_Villian on August 15, 2021, 09:39:43 AM
Some folk make me feel ashamed to follow my club
We have lost one game and the haters are out already
Pre season has been very unfortunate with cancelled game’s departures of players and staff together with several being unavailable this week
Suggest the haters either get back in their box or go follow another team as they are not true supporters 

Dont you you just love ‘I’m a better than you’ superfans.
I’m so glad they keep everyone else in check.

Yay for the super fan !

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ketzster on August 15, 2021, 09:47:04 AM
			

			

				I think most people thought the first 3 fixtures gave us a pretty easy start to the season. The problem is, if you don’t win those then you then have the harder games and you can end up being a long way behind and not being able to catch up. It isn’t just one game, it’s been a recurring problem for Smith without Grealish. I don’t think he will find an answer because he never has regarding that problem. I think he will be gone before the end of October 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: N'ZMAV on August 15, 2021, 09:50:02 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Ketzster on August 15, 2021, 09:47:04 AM
I think most people thought the first 3 fixtures gave us a pretty easy start to the season. The problem is, if you don’t win those then you then have the harder games and you can end up being a long way behind and not being able to catch up. It isn’t just one game, it’s been a recurring problem for Smith without Grealish. I don’t think he will find an answer because he never has regarding that problem. I think he will be gone before the end of October 
 but a new manager makes that an even bigger problem - as the new manager won't know how to play with any of the players. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ketzster on August 15, 2021, 09:55:11 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: N'ZMAV on August 15, 2021, 09:50:02 AM
Quote from: Ketzster on August 15, 2021, 09:47:04 AM
I think most people thought the first 3 fixtures gave us a pretty easy start to the season. The problem is, if you don’t win those then you then have the harder games and you can end up being a long way behind and not being able to catch up. It isn’t just one game, it’s been a recurring problem for Smith without Grealish. I don’t think he will find an answer because he never has regarding that problem. I think he will be gone before the end of October 
 but a new manager makes that an even bigger problem - as the new manager won't know how to play with any of the players.

But on that basis no club would ever change manager 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ozzjim on August 15, 2021, 09:55:37 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: andyh on August 15, 2021, 09:46:55 AM
Quote from: Leicester_Villian on August 15, 2021, 09:39:43 AM
Some folk make me feel ashamed to follow my club
We have lost one game and the haters are out already
Pre season has been very unfortunate with cancelled game’s departures of players and staff together with several being unavailable this week
Suggest the haters either get back in their box or go follow another team as they are not true supporters 

Dont you you just love ‘I’m a better than you’ superfans.
I’m so glad they keep everyone else in check.

Yay for the super fan !


It always amazes me that on a football forum, designed to talk about the team you follow, that people can be ashamed and label others as "haters" for discussing the possibilities around what might happen in the future should x y or z scenario come to pass. In this instance a team that has spent much of the last 3 weeks peddling top 6 ambitions are 3-0 down to a newly promoted side on the opening day, and there is some sort of belief that all will be ok. Surely views from across the spectrum are allowed without being "haters" or indeed "happy clappers" or worse fans. We all love the Villa, and we all have different views. This site would be so bloody boring without it.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Goldenballs on August 15, 2021, 09:57:02 AM
			

			

				Is it haters? Or is it people calling a shit performance a shit performance?


			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ozzjim on August 15, 2021, 09:58:33 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Ketzster on August 15, 2021, 09:55:11 AM
Quote from: N'ZMAV on August 15, 2021, 09:50:02 AM
Quote from: Ketzster on August 15, 2021, 09:47:04 AM
I think most people thought the first 3 fixtures gave us a pretty easy start to the season. The problem is, if you don’t win those then you then have the harder games and you can end up being a long way behind and not being able to catch up. It isn’t just one game, it’s been a recurring problem for Smith without Grealish. I don’t think he will find an answer because he never has regarding that problem. I think he will be gone before the end of October 
 but a new manager makes that an even bigger problem - as the new manager won't know how to play with any of the players.

But on that basis no club would ever change manager 

Some managers come to the end of their "cycle" and hit a ceiling. We will find out if Dean has with his this season, I really hope not. 

But you are spot on, some managers go in and have a marked improvement, look at the job Tuchel did and is doing at Chelsea for example, or indeed Rodgers at Leicester. They are clearly top level managers that have taken their teams to a level the previous managers couldn't. the biggest issue Villa will have is finding a replacement for Smith, as it is a really tough leap from where we are to the top 6. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: VinnieChase84 on August 15, 2021, 10:00:14 AM
			

			

				Let’s not beat around the bush. Given the level of investment, dean will be under some serious pressure this season if expectations are not met. That shouldn’t really be a shock
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Chico Hamilton III on August 15, 2021, 10:08:28 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Leicester_Villian on August 15, 2021, 09:39:43 AM
Some folk make me feel ashamed to follow my club
We have lost one game and the haters are out already
Pre season has been very unfortunate with cancelled game’s departures of players and staff together with several being unavailable this week
Suggest the haters either get back in their box or go follow another team as they are not true supporters 

That was a shit performance yesterday - as bad as I’ve seen for a while. Most of the people around us were pissed off at the performance and complete lack of cohesiveness. If we want to be the top 6 club that a lot on here think we should be, then we have to judge the team as such. 

Also, I  think it’s against forum rules to play the “better fan” card by telling people to support another club. You’re no better a fan than anyone else who watched that tripe yesterday.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: andyh on August 15, 2021, 10:10:23 AM
			

			

				I said the other day, probably for the first time since he joined, Smith is under proper scrutiny and pressure to get a tune out of the most talented and expensive squad this club has ever had.

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: mr underhill on August 15, 2021, 10:11:20 AM
			

			

				every manager is judged on results and Dean's without Grealish are singularly awful. If we hare bottom six  come the end of October, i suspect it will be the end of Dean, given the financial support he has received. But such is football. The King is dead, long live the King.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on August 15, 2021, 10:22:44 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: john e on August 15, 2021, 09:02:02 AM
Quote from: Drummond on August 15, 2021, 08:32:30 AM
Smith has made great calls with the coaches.

We've got some great players in, who aren't yet fit or bedded into a system. We've lost a great player. Our main striker was out.

We've played one game. 

Pre season has been shortened by Copa America, Olympics and Euros and then we lost our main friendly to covid.

Ings scored. Bailey got an assist to a great McGinn finish. We showed signs (when it was too late but still, it was an improvement). 

Smith will be fine. 



Some great excuses there mate for an abject performance against a club tipped for relegation
I know you’ve got a large back catalogue but I am hoping you’re not going to be dipping into too much this season

I've not said it was a good performance. But as usual, you seem. To thrive on finding fault and then calling others out. I've also said before when I've got it wrong, have you? I guess not because if you're always calling managers out and for them to go, you'll be proven right one day.

They are tipped for relegation and we're tipped for mid - table. We'll win some, we'll lose some, but to start calling Smith out after one game is boring and predictable.

I'd also hope you're not using your usual moaning every week too, and that we win more than we lose. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: WarszaVillan on August 15, 2021, 10:24:02 AM
			

			

				Strange many call a Villa fan leaving the club a rat, but also start pushing for another Villa fan to be sacked after one game of the season. I get it's a result game, but we could at least try and be more patient with a Villa man who has so far been very successful. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: N'ZMAV on August 15, 2021, 10:26:57 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: WarszaVillan82 on August 15, 2021, 10:24:02 AM
Strange many call a Villa fan leaving the club a rat, but also start pushing for another Villa fan to be sacked after one game of the season. I get it's a result game, but we could at least try and be more patient with a Villa man who has so far been very successful. 
 it's a bit knee-jerk

Dean knows the issues - which is a good sign. He's got time to sort them. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on August 15, 2021, 10:33:39 AM
			

			

				Started to wonder what the Lensbury Club kick around bar b que was all about.
I can tell you the Lensbury is no where near as good as BH. Was the club so transfixed by the Grealish saga that we went out of the way  to do it the right way for Jack as Smith said. What did this do to the spirit in the camp?
We were days away from the opening game of the season, fuck Grealish, focus on the blokes that want to play for the club. 
When somebody wants out the first thing you do is try and make sure that it doesn’t impact negatively on the rest of the team. From what we saw yesterday it looks like we got this horribly wrong.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Clampy on August 15, 2021, 10:45:24 AM
			

			

				It looked like a team bonding few days away which we might have organised ages ago. I don't think it was for Jack's benefit and besides, it wasnt exactly days away from the new season either, it was over a week and half ago. 

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ROBBO on August 15, 2021, 10:53:46 AM
			

			

				Lets face it Grealish saved us for two seasons and kept Smith in a job, last season our time without Jack was woeful, relegation form, we will soon see if the manager has learned anything.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: CT on August 15, 2021, 11:11:17 AM
			

			

				I’m fully behind Dean, but there’s no doubting that this is a crucially important two weeks before the transfer window shuts. 

Then it’s a pivotal few months following on from there. Not only for Dean. If we’re down in 16th at the end of October he’ll be under immense pressure, as would any manager. 

But also, if we do end up in the bottom half, will it mean cheerio to some of our better first XI players and then we get to start all over again? 

I hope the rumours of discontent are just that. It’s always come across a very happy coaching camp. JT has gone without actually becoming a boss anywhere else. ROK leaves two days before the season starts. 

I hate the word “project”, but the next few months will tell us a lot about where we are with it. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Scott Nielsen on August 15, 2021, 11:16:16 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on August 15, 2021, 10:00:14 AM
Let’s not beat around the bush. Given the level of investment, dean will be under some serious pressure this season if expectations are not met. That shouldn’t really be a shock

I don't doubt that but we haven't yet seen the level of investment - to my mind - that would quite justify it. I can't see how we can be expected to improve on last year's position based on business done so far. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on August 15, 2021, 11:17:01 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: WarszaVillan82 on August 15, 2021, 10:24:02 AM
Strange many call a Villa fan leaving the club a rat, but also start pushing for another Villa fan to be sacked after one game of the season. I get it's a result game, but we could at least try and be more patient with a Villa man who has so far been very successful. 

The Villa fan part is completely irrelevant. Ratboy is a rat because he was happy enough to sign a new five year contract last year, then has seemingly spent every second since working on his move away. Dean Smith is a manager who has done well so far, but who seemingly really struggles to get a tune out of a Villa team without Greasy in it. If he proves to not be up to the task this year, he'll be gone.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Pete3206 on August 15, 2021, 11:20:26 AM
			

			

				The warning sign was there last season. Grealish carried the team and without him, we were average at best.

Smith's tactics and game management have always been suspect for me and the club needs to assess very soon, whether Smith is the man to take the team to the next level. IMO, I don't believe he has the chops and losing two of the coaching staff can't have helped either.

Love to be proved wrong.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ROBBO on August 15, 2021, 11:21:27 AM
			

			

				Agreed, but Bailey is the first Villa player in a long time that that i have thought might be top drawer, apart from Grealish. We need more.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: dicedlam on August 15, 2021, 11:37:21 AM
			

			

				I was a little perplexed yesterday to why El Ghazi and Young were picked ahead of both Bailey and Bert?

Yes, I get that one had only been in the country a few days and the other was coming back from injury, but why were they on the bench if they did not intend to be used? Surely, it would have been better to player them from the start and get at least one half out of them than expecting them to come on and rescue the game at 3-0 down? 

I honestly believe we would never never of been 3-0 nil down if he had gone with Leon and Bert from the start.

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: wince on August 15, 2021, 11:37:36 AM
			

			

				Edited as can’t be arsed arguing
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Allan C on August 15, 2021, 11:47:26 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Chico Hamilton III on August 15, 2021, 10:08:28 AM
Quote from: Leicester_Villian on August 15, 2021, 09:39:43 AM
Some folk make me feel ashamed to follow my club
We have lost one game and the haters are out already
Pre season has been very unfortunate with cancelled game’s departures of players and staff together with several being unavailable this week
Suggest the haters either get back in their box or go follow another team as they are not true supporters 

That was a shit performance yesterday - as bad as I’ve seen for a while. Most of the people around us were pissed off at the performance and complete lack of cohesiveness. If we want to be the top 6 club that a lot on here think we should be, then we have to judge the team as such. 

Also, I  think it’s against forum rules to play the “better fan” card by telling people to support another club. You’re no better a fan than anyone else who watched that tripe yesterday.
He’s just giving the opposite extreme opinion to some of the opinions stated on this thread. That’s fair enough on a forum, to hear both sides of the debate. To be honest I’m leaning more on his side. But don’t expect everyone to listen to one extreme without putting an equally extreme view in opposition 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: mrfuse on August 15, 2021, 11:51:48 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: dicedlam on August 15, 2021, 11:37:21 AM
I was a little perplexed yesterday to why El Ghazi and Young were picked ahead of both Bailey and Bert?

Yes, I get that one had only been in the country a few days and the other was coming back from injury, but why were they on the bench if they did not intend to be used? Surely, it would have been better to player them from the start and get at least one half out of them than expecting them to come on and rescue the game at 3-0 down? 

I honestly believe we would never never of been 3-0 nil down if he had gone with Leon and Bert from the start.


I think they were on the Bench in the case of we will only use them if we really need to get out of a mess. Turns out we were in a bigger mess than expected.

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: WarszaVillan on August 15, 2021, 11:54:53 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on August 15, 2021, 11:17:01 AM
Quote from: WarszaVillan82 on August 15, 2021, 10:24:02 AM
Strange many call a Villa fan leaving the club a rat, but also start pushing for another Villa fan to be sacked after one game of the season. I get it's a result game, but we could at least try and be more patient with a Villa man who has so far been very successful. 

The Villa fan part is completely irrelevant. Ratboy is a rat because he was happy enough to sign a new five year contract last year, then has seemingly spent every second since working on his move away. Dean Smith is a manager who has done well so far, but who seemingly really struggles to get a tune out of a Villa team without Greasy in it. If he proves to not be up to the task this year, he'll be gone.

I agree if he doesn't deliver he'll lose his job. But loyalty goes both ways, which includes showing some patience rather than jumping in to call for Smith to be sacked after one game. There's a long season ahead. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Chris Smith on August 15, 2021, 12:08:32 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: dicedlam on August 15, 2021, 11:37:21 AM
I was a little perplexed yesterday to why El Ghazi and Young were picked ahead of both Bailey and Bert?

Yes, I get that one had only been in the country a few days and the other was coming back from injury, but why were they on the bench if they did not intend to be used? Surely, it would have been better to player them from the start and get at least one half out of them than expecting them to come on and rescue the game at 3-0 down? 

I honestly believe we would never never of been 3-0 nil down if he had gone with Leon and Bert from the start.


I doubt either would have been able to last 90 minutes. By bringing them off the bench they are up against opponents who have already put in an hours worth of effort so it’s an easier introduction for players who are not 100% match fit. 

Those two plus Watkins and potentially Luiz could be ready to start next week which should improve us significantly.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: andyh on August 15, 2021, 12:13:38 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: WarszaVillan82 on August 15, 2021, 10:24:02 AM
Strange many call a Villa fan leaving the club a rat, but also start pushing for another Villa fan to be sacked after one game of the season. I get it's a result game, but we could at least try and be more patient with a Villa man who has so far been very successful. 
Who has called for Smith to be sacked ?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ketzster on August 15, 2021, 12:13:46 PM
			

			

				Under Smith, the only thing that has ever resolved poor spells of form has been Grealish returning from injury. More concerning is the fact that Smith never even looked close to coming up with a solution when Grealish was out. So I’m not sure where the confidence comes from that Smith will sort it out this time. When Chelsea and Man City were at the beginning of their dominance with new owners, they were ruthless with managers. I always think we might be wasting the opportunity with Smith. The concern is if we finish in the bottom half of the table again and players leave, will the owners have the same enthusiasm or does the opportunity that was there pass us by? I’m really not bothered whether Smith is a Villa fan. We’re all Villa fans and would love the chance to manage the club too, but it wouldn’t mean we are up to the task. I’d much rather have the best possible person for the job 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Chico Hamilton III on August 15, 2021, 12:16:01 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Allan C on August 15, 2021, 11:47:26 AM
Quote from: Chico Hamilton III on August 15, 2021, 10:08:28 AM
Quote from: Leicester_Villian on August 15, 2021, 09:39:43 AM
Some folk make me feel ashamed to follow my club
We have lost one game and the haters are out already
Pre season has been very unfortunate with cancelled game’s departures of players and staff together with several being unavailable this week
Suggest the haters either get back in their box or go follow another team as they are not true supporters 

That was a shit performance yesterday - as bad as I’ve seen for a while. Most of the people around us were pissed off at the performance and complete lack of cohesiveness. If we want to be the top 6 club that a lot on here think we should be, then we have to judge the team as such. 

Also, I  think it’s against forum rules to play the “better fan” card by telling people to support another club. You’re no better a fan than anyone else who watched that tripe yesterday.
He’s just giving the opposite extreme opinion to some of the opinions stated on this thread. That’s fair enough on a forum, to hear both sides of the debate. To be honest I’m leaning more on his side. But don’t expect everyone to listen to one extreme without putting an equally extreme view in opposition 

I’ve never told a Villa fan who disagrees with me to go and support another club. 

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: LeeB on August 15, 2021, 12:16:31 PM
			

			

				Jesus, physiotherapists across the Midlands will be raking it in with all the jerked knees going off this weekend.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Chris Smith on August 15, 2021, 12:18:26 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Ketzster on August 15, 2021, 12:13:46 PM
Under Smith, the only thing that has ever resolved poor spells of form has been Grealish returning from injury. More concerning is the fact that Smith never even looked close to coming up with a solution when Grealish was out. So I’m not sure where the confidence comes from that Smith will sort it out this time. When Chelsea and Man City were at the beginning of their dominance with new owners, they were ruthless with managers. I always think we might be wasting the opportunity with Smith. The concern is if we finish in the bottom half of the table again and players leave, will the owners have the same enthusiasm or does the opportunity that was there pass us by? I’m really not bothered whether Smith is a Villa fan. We’re all Villa fans and would love the chance to manage the club too, but it wouldn’t mean we are up to the task. I’d much rather have the best possible person for the job 

The confidence comes because the signings of Bailey, Buendia and Ings should give us better options this season.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Mister E on August 15, 2021, 12:19:06 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Ketzster on August 15, 2021, 09:47:04 AM
I think most people thought the first 3 fixtures gave us a pretty easy start to the season. The problem is, if you don’t win those then you then have the harder games and you can end up being a long way behind and not being able to catch up. It isn’t just one game, it’s been a recurring problem for Smith without Grealish. I don’t think he will find an answer because he never has regarding that problem. I think he will be gone before the end of October 
It was always going to be a tough game against a newly-promoted side, away. We have 5 new players to integrate, players coming back late from international tournaments and a talismanic player to do without. Also, we're two coaches light.
We will get better, as long as the coaching team recognise what needs to be done, quickly, to improve fitness and energy levels. The game against Brentford really will test our ability to press and withstand the press.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on August 15, 2021, 12:20:27 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Drummond on August 15, 2021, 10:22:44 AM
Quote from: john e on August 15, 2021, 09:02:02 AM
Quote from: Drummond on August 15, 2021, 08:32:30 AM
Smith has made great calls with the coaches.

We've got some great players in, who aren't yet fit or bedded into a system. We've lost a great player. Our main striker was out.

We've played one game. 

Pre season has been shortened by Copa America, Olympics and Euros and then we lost our main friendly to covid.

Ings scored. Bailey got an assist to a great McGinn finish. We showed signs (when it was too late but still, it was an improvement). 

Smith will be fine. 



Some great excuses there mate for an abject performance against a club tipped for relegation
I know you’ve got a large back catalogue but I am hoping you’re not going to be dipping into too much this season

I've not said it was a good performance. But as usual, you seem. To thrive on finding fault and then calling others out. I've also said before when I've got it wrong, have you? I guess not because if you're always calling managers out and for them to go, you'll be proven right one day.

They are tipped for relegation and we're tipped for mid - table. We'll win some, we'll lose some, but to start calling Smith out after one game is boring and predictable.

I'd also hope you're not using your usual moaning every week too, and that we win more than we lose. 

I do pick on you a bit because I know you don’t mind and can take it

if it’s rubbish I’ll say it’s rubbish
If it’s a 7-2 Liverpool job I’ll say it’s was brilliant 

Bottom line for me is I think we should be doing better, even in the last two seasons I think we’ve underachieved
I know others are satisfied but we all have are own opinions 

the worst thing about yesterday is that Watford we’re rubbing their hands playing us first up
and that should never be the case 








			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: London Villan on August 15, 2021, 12:34:53 PM
			

			

				We are too nice a team. Jedinak was the last player to have a proper aggressive presence. We need someone like that in the squad.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: eamonn on August 15, 2021, 12:40:13 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: LeeB on August 15, 2021, 12:16:31 PM
Jesus, physiotherapists across the Midlands will be raking it in with all the jerked knees going off this weekend.

Hope it's nowt kinky. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: eamonn on August 15, 2021, 12:44:41 PM
			

			

				I know it doesn't really matter, but sometimes Dean's post-match interviews when we lose are pretty...lame.

"Where did it go wrong?" he's asked.

To which h kind of gives this disbelieving shrug and a glib "The first half!". We never got going, we were slow.....yes, Dean we know all that so thankfully the BBC's journalist asks the correct follow-up. "Do you know why that was?" And he doesn't really. 

A lot of things he does and says suggest he is an intelligent man. But his lack of pro-activity during games and his level of analysis (to the media/fans at least) afterwards, leaves something to be desired. 



			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on August 15, 2021, 12:49:42 PM
			

			

				And it's nothing we haven't heard before . "No intensity, not what we've been doing in training."  He might as well just have a T-shirt printed saying "I can't cope without Greasy".
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Proposition Joe on August 15, 2021, 01:07:59 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: ozzjim on August 14, 2021, 10:38:08 PM
I would be less worried if we had looked more dangerous in the games without Jack for the last 4 months of last season, but we hardly created chances.

This is it. At no point has Deano shown he can set us up to create chances via patterns of play, rather than a magic man orchestrating things from the left.

What is our tactic for opening teams up, for getting through the lines? It can't simply be Mings-Konsa-Cash-Konsa-Mings-Targett-Mings-HOOF.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Allan C on August 15, 2021, 01:14:11 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Chico Hamilton III on August 15, 2021, 12:16:01 PM
Quote from: Allan C on August 15, 2021, 11:47:26 AM
Quote from: Chico Hamilton III on August 15, 2021, 10:08:28 AM
Quote from: Leicester_Villian on August 15, 2021, 09:39:43 AM
Some folk make me feel ashamed to follow my club
We have lost one game and the haters are out already
Pre season has been very unfortunate with cancelled game’s departures of players and staff together with several being unavailable this week
Suggest the haters either get back in their box or go follow another team as they are not true supporters 

That was a shit performance yesterday - as bad as I’ve seen for a while. Most of the people around us were pissed off at the performance and complete lack of cohesiveness. If we want to be the top 6 club that a lot on here think we should be, then we have to judge the team as such. 

Also, I  think it’s against forum rules to play the “better fan” card by telling people to support another club. You’re no better a fan than anyone else who watched that tripe yesterday.
He’s just giving the opposite extreme opinion to some of the opinions stated on this thread. That’s fair enough on a forum, to hear both sides of the debate. To be honest I’m leaning more on his side. But don’t expect everyone to listen to one extreme without putting an equally extreme view in opposition 

I’ve never told a Villa fan who disagrees with me to go and support another club.
True. It’s a very extreme view but then there are equally extreme views on the other side of the debate. Both are too extreme in my view but it’s to be expected.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Toronto Villa on August 15, 2021, 01:15:20 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: LeeB on August 15, 2021, 12:16:31 PM
Jesus, physiotherapists across the Midlands will be raking it in with all the jerked knees going off this weekend.

I agree with that Lee. It was a very poor first half and a better second half. So not dismissing that we played badly and deserved to be beaten. But all of sudden Targett is shit, Buendia is shit, this and that is shit. Versus it was a bad display and players played way below what we expect of them. And the manager needs to figure this out or he knows he will out of a job. But it was the first game of the season and I am sure we will improve. Reading some stuff on here the seasons over and we may as well set up for a long relegation campaign. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ozzjim on August 15, 2021, 01:17:32 PM
			

			

				No issues with different views, but don't label people as haters or whatever other terms are banded about in the better fan than you style posts, or indeed tell people to go and support someone else. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: eamonn on August 15, 2021, 01:17:37 PM
			

			

				I think folk are saying that those players were shit yesterday as opposed to generally which is a fair call.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: PaulWinch again on August 15, 2021, 01:19:02 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Toronto Villa on August 15, 2021, 01:15:20 PM
Quote from: LeeB on August 15, 2021, 12:16:31 PM
Jesus, physiotherapists across the Midlands will be raking it in with all the jerked knees going off this weekend.

I agree with that Lee. It was a very poor first half and a better second half. So not dismissing that we played badly and deserved to be beaten. But all of sudden Targett is shit, Buendia is shit, this and that is shit. Versus it was a bad display and players played way below what we expect of them. And the manager needs to figure this out or he knows he will out of a job. But it was the first game of the season and I am sure we will improve. Reading some stuff on here the seasons over and we may as well set up for a long relegation campaign. 

Yes in fairness I blame you TV for your pre-match jinx!
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Scott Nielsen on August 15, 2021, 01:24:39 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Chris Smith on August 15, 2021, 12:18:26 PM
Quote from: Ketzster on August 15, 2021, 12:13:46 PM
Under Smith, the only thing that has ever resolved poor spells of form has been Grealish returning from injury. More concerning is the fact that Smith never even looked close to coming up with a solution when Grealish was out. So I’m not sure where the confidence comes from that Smith will sort it out this time. When Chelsea and Man City were at the beginning of their dominance with new owners, they were ruthless with managers. I always think we might be wasting the opportunity with Smith. The concern is if we finish in the bottom half of the table again and players leave, will the owners have the same enthusiasm or does the opportunity that was there pass us by? I’m really not bothered whether Smith is a Villa fan. We’re all Villa fans and would love the chance to manage the club too, but it wouldn’t mean we are up to the task. I’d much rather have the best possible person for the job 

The confidence comes because the signings of Bailey, Buendia and Ings should give us better options this season.

They'll give us different options, which is welcome. Are they a better option than the man they replaced? I doubt that and it's not a reflection on them, rather the size of the hole left behind. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on August 15, 2021, 01:26:45 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Allan C on August 15, 2021, 01:14:11 PM

True. It’s a very extreme view but then there are equally extreme views on the other side of the debate. Both are too extreme in my view but it’s to be expected.

One's against forum rules, the other isn't.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Toronto Villa on August 15, 2021, 01:29:49 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: PaulWinch again on August 15, 2021, 01:19:02 PM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on August 15, 2021, 01:15:20 PM
Quote from: LeeB on August 15, 2021, 12:16:31 PM
Jesus, physiotherapists across the Midlands will be raking it in with all the jerked knees going off this weekend.

I agree with that Lee. It was a very poor first half and a better second half. So not dismissing that we played badly and deserved to be beaten. But all of sudden Targett is shit, Buendia is shit, this and that is shit. Versus it was a bad display and players played way below what we expect of them. And the manager needs to figure this out or he knows he will out of a job. But it was the first game of the season and I am sure we will improve. Reading some stuff on here the seasons over and we may as well set up for a long relegation campaign. 

Yes in fairness I blame you TV for your pre-match jinx!

Haha fuck me I hoped you’d forget. I was however planning on starting the match thread to counter the jinx but the team wasn’t published on time and I had to tee off. So yes blame me. I fucked it all up. Will promise to be better next week.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ROBBO on August 15, 2021, 01:47:50 PM
			

			

				Just seen you know who on Sky saying he will learn so much playing for Guardiola, also that they have such great defenders he can stay forward and not be covering the full back.I wish he didn't look so f'ing happy. One thing is certain though, great players want to play for great managers.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on August 15, 2021, 01:50:29 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Clampy on August 15, 2021, 10:45:24 AM
It looked like a team bonding few days away which we might have organised ages ago. I don't think it was for Jack's benefit and besides, it wasnt exactly days away from the new season either, it was over a week and half ago.
You heard Smith explain the whole goodbye to Jack stuff? 
Oh yes 10 days then. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Villan82 on August 15, 2021, 01:50:38 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: ROBBO on August 15, 2021, 01:47:50 PM
Just seen you know who on Sky saying he will learn so much playing for Guardiola, also that they have such great defenders he can stay forward and not be covering the full back.I wish he didn't look so f'ing happy. One thing is certain though, great players want to play for great managers.

Judas is continuing to burn bridges and I so hope we never see him near Villa Park as a paid staff member ever again.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: mr underhill on August 15, 2021, 01:57:42 PM
			

			

				I hope it was  a condition of sale that he doesn't play at Villa park this season. Even better, he isn't even in the squad. Late illness or mild knock should cover it. If he does appear, rightly or wrongly, he's going to feel a hot iron of hate blow.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on August 15, 2021, 01:58:14 PM
			

			

				Its a bit like Morecambe and Wise, with no Eric Morcambe.

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on August 15, 2021, 02:42:22 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: mr underhill on August 15, 2021, 01:57:42 PM
I hope it was  a condition of sale that he doesn't play at Villa park this season. Even better, he isn't even in the squad. Late illness or mild knock should cover it. If he does appear, rightly or wrongly, he's going to feel a hot iron of hate blow.

Isn't something like that against the premier league rules now?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Demitri_C on August 15, 2021, 03:40:20 PM
			

			

				Newcastle look terrible. If we cant bsat these lot in front of a  full house at home i wont be happy
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Deano's Mullet on August 15, 2021, 03:44:25 PM
			

			

				They were doing OK up until the penalty.  I reckon stop St Maximim and that's half the battle. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: charlatan on August 15, 2021, 04:29:05 PM
			

			

				If we had stopped Sarr yesterday we'd have been OK....
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on August 15, 2021, 04:44:13 PM
			

			

				They'll have Willock involved aswell.

Good thing is we know with their manager pressing in midfield isn't really a thing they want to do so they'll just step off us and allow us to dictate the tempo so hopefully we can get an early goal like we usually do at home v them and confidence will grow from there.

Think this would be a good game to bring Luiz back for, apparently training tomorrow so will be in contention.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: rooboy316 on August 15, 2021, 05:05:15 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Proposition Joe on August 15, 2021, 01:07:59 PM

This is it. At no point has Deano shown he can set us up to create chances via patterns of play, rather than a magic man orchestrating things from the left.

What is our tactic for opening teams up, for getting through the lines? It can't simply be Mings-Konsa-Cash-Konsa-Mings-Targett-Mings-HOOF.

This really sums it up for me. Without Joe, goals just don’t look likely unless it is some individual brilliance or a piece of luck. There’s no attacking system apparent. And the passing it around the back followed by the hoof really gets my goat after the 100th time.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on August 15, 2021, 05:18:58 PM
			

			

				Why we calling him Joe?
Can we think of something better, it does not have to be ratboy but Joe ffs
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Three Spires Villa on August 15, 2021, 05:57:22 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: ChicagoLion on August 15, 2021, 05:18:58 PM
Why we calling him Joe?
Can we think of something better, it does not have to be ratboy but Joe ffs

It come from a tweet. Picture of JG with the words around it, “We will never forget you Joe”

Very funny, 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: danno on August 15, 2021, 05:59:11 PM
			

			

				He also looks a bit like 90s Eastenders character Joe Wicks.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: PaulTheVillan on August 15, 2021, 07:04:27 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: charlatan on August 15, 2021, 04:29:05 PM
If we had stopped Sarr yesterday we'd have been OK....
 We should sign him :) Then ask to replay the game 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: sid1964 on August 16, 2021, 06:48:07 AM
			

			

				We have to beat Newcastle on Saturday.

Any truth in the rumours that Dean was called into a meeting with Purslow yesterday?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ROBBO on August 16, 2021, 06:57:46 AM
			

			

				I would guess that the owners and Purslow were alarmed at the first half effort, I just wonder whether they may be holding off spending more to see how we go against Newcastle. I feel for Dean Smith if we lose the next one, you would hear the knives being sharpened.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Clampy on August 16, 2021, 07:21:06 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: sid1964 on August 16, 2021, 06:48:07 AM
We have to beat Newcastle on Saturday.

Any truth in the rumours that Dean was called into a meeting with Purslow yesterday?

You tend to hear a lot of rumours Sid. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Demitri_C on August 16, 2021, 07:55:11 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: ROBBO on August 16, 2021, 06:57:46 AM
I would guess that the owners and Purslow were alarmed at the first half effort, I just wonder whether they may be holding off spending more to see how we go against Newcastle. I feel for Dean Smith if we lose the next one, you would hear the knives being sharpened.

If he delivers zero points against newcastle and watford then for me he deseves to be called in as thats unacceptable. 

I dont feel for him if he under delivers. He has been backed massively in all the summers he has been here. I like smith but he has to start delivering now 

He qas shockingly poor without grealish. Couldnt buy a win and that concerned me. Even without watkins its unbelievable we were 3-0 down. Disgraceful


			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: sickbeggar on August 16, 2021, 08:04:18 AM
			

			

				The whole post-ratboy thing worries me. I perhaps wrongly assumed that we'd change the whole system once he'd gone because it obviously didn't work when he was injured anyway. At the moment it doesn't look like that's the idea. We'll see when Watkins is fit and whether he shoehorns him into the side.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Chris Smith on August 16, 2021, 08:21:58 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: sickbeggar on August 16, 2021, 08:04:18 AM
The whole post-ratboy thing worries me. I perhaps wrongly assumed that we'd change the whole system once he'd gone because it obviously didn't work when he was injured anyway. At the moment it doesn't look like that's the idea. We'll see when Watkins is fit and whether he shoehorns him into the side.

Why would picking your highest goal scorer from last season be classed as “shoehorning”? It will surely be a question of picking options to support him.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: sickbeggar on August 16, 2021, 08:25:36 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Chris Smith on August 16, 2021, 08:21:58 AM
Quote from: sickbeggar on August 16, 2021, 08:04:18 AM
The whole post-ratboy thing worries me. I perhaps wrongly assumed that we'd change the whole system once he'd gone because it obviously didn't work when he was injured anyway. At the moment it doesn't look like that's the idea. We'll see when Watkins is fit and whether he shoehorns him into the side.

Why would picking your highest goal scorer from last season be classed as “shoehorning”? It will surely be a question of picking options to support him.

Depends if he plays him where he was last season.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Clampy on August 16, 2021, 08:31:22 AM
			

			

				I might be wrong about this but I think Smith has already said he'll be playing him in the position he did last season. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: sickbeggar on August 16, 2021, 08:33:21 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Clampy on August 16, 2021, 08:31:22 AM
I might be wrong about this but I think Smith has already said he'll be playing him in the position he did last season.


If that's the case then good. Not sure where Ings is going though.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on August 16, 2021, 08:35:07 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Clampy on August 16, 2021, 08:31:22 AM
I might be wrong about this but I think Smith has already said he'll be playing him in the position he did last season. 

Not exactly. He said he wouldn't play him "out wide" but then did say he can play in a front two or three, so I think the "out wide" meant as an out-and-out winger. I could well see him playing slightly wider of Ings in a front three, with Bailey on the other side.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: algy on August 16, 2021, 08:52:13 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: ROBBO on August 16, 2021, 06:57:46 AM
I would guess that the owners and Purslow were alarmed at the first half effort, I just wonder whether they may be holding off spending more to see how we go against Newcastle. I feel for Dean Smith if we lose the next one, you would hear the knives being sharpened.
Can't see that being the case. Dean has final say in the transfers, but they're agreed between him, Purslow, and Lange. I'd be highly surprised if any of our signings hadn't also been fully approved by Lange.

Our recruitment isn't like Clough in the 80s. If we're not spending I'd be inclined to think that it's because the players we're after aren't available at the right price. But given Vinnie's posts I don't think we're done just yet.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Demitri_C on August 16, 2021, 09:23:07 AM
			

			

				I think its clear as well Smith made a masisve error playing young at left wing. He cant play there anymore so dont do that again.

We have plenty of options. I mean i would have gone for JPB he did so well in pre season and got no monutes at all
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: mr underhill on August 16, 2021, 09:26:17 AM
			

			

				so the fact that it was such an egregious error only serves to make his decision making even more - egregious?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: sickbeggar on August 16, 2021, 09:37:07 AM
			

			

				Newcastle will be the litmus test I think. They got handed their arse by a team we've got pretensions to catch this season. I'd hope with a first game back after COVID full Villa Park behind us we should see them off although i'm guessing nan's hair will put out about as defensive a side as he can manage now. We really need to get a win behind us to settle nerves because if we're 5 points or more behind the teams we're targeting after next weekend then its already looking a long hard slog of a season.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: eamonn on August 16, 2021, 09:56:38 AM
			

			

				Newcastle actually played well yesterday. West Ham just counter-attacked very well and got lucky with a (rebounded) penalty. St Maximin (Minimax Regret?!) up against Targett given his performance at Watford, doesn't exactly fill you with confidence.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: sickbeggar on August 16, 2021, 10:04:05 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: eamonn on August 16, 2021, 09:56:38 AM
Newcastle actually played well yesterday. West Ham just counter-attacked very well and got lucky with a (rebounded) penalty. St Maximin (Minimax Regret?!) up against Targett given his performance at Watford, doesn't exactly fill you with confidence.

Dunno. I only started following the game when they were 2-1 down at half-time and they seemed to be taking Newcastle apart at will. As a realist/miserablist I had us at 4 points after the Newcastle game, and I think most people would have Newcastle as a near as dammit 3 points for a team looking to finish in a European place considering with Willock joining they're basically the same side as last season.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Monty on August 16, 2021, 10:09:13 AM
			

			

				It's one thing to say that we're post-Grealish and adapting and all that, but aside from possibly some ball retention I don't quite see what his absence has to do with being 3-0 down to Watford. The back seven were all here last season. The problem was a setup that practically begged Watford to bully us in midfield and smack us in the transitions, as we had no way of bridging the huge gaps between the lines going backwards or forwards.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on August 16, 2021, 10:53:27 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: sid1964 on August 16, 2021, 06:48:07 AM
We have to beat Newcastle on Saturday.

Any truth in the rumours that Dean was called into a meeting with Purslow yesterday?

Could be something as innocent as just discussing the restructing of the coaching staff. I assume we're interviewing people now to replace O'Kelly (assume this McPhee guy is the Terry replacement if he's supposed to be hot on set pieces).

If it happened at all of course.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Demitri_C on August 16, 2021, 10:55:11 AM
			

			

				Thumped by liverpool 4-1 in a behind the scenes friendly too.

Very worrying signs for me
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on August 16, 2021, 10:55:16 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Monty on August 16, 2021, 10:09:13 AM
It's one thing to say that we're post-Grealish and adapting and all that, but aside from possibly some ball retention I don't quite see what his absence has to do with being 3-0 down to Watford. The back seven were all here last season. The problem was a setup that practically begged Watford to bully us in midfield and smack us in the transitions, as we had no way of bridging the huge gaps between the lines going backwards or forwards.

As other have said, Young in the left attacking spot and El Ghazi on the right was just about as bad an option as it was possible to get. Hope we won't be seeing much more of those two in attacking positions this season.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Demitri_C on August 16, 2021, 11:07:18 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: SoccerHQ on August 16, 2021, 10:53:27 AM
Quote from: sid1964 on August 16, 2021, 06:48:07 AM
We have to beat Newcastle on Saturday.

Any truth in the rumours that Dean was called into a meeting with Purslow yesterday?

Could be something as innocent as just discussing the restructing of the coaching staff. I assume we're interviewing people now to replace O'Kelly (assume this McPhee guy is the Terry replacement if he's supposed to be hot on set pieces).

If it happened at all of course.

The set pieces are more atrocious than ever. Mcphee has his work cut out


			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Scott Nielsen on August 16, 2021, 12:10:31 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Demitri_C on August 16, 2021, 10:55:11 AM
Thumped by liverpool 4-1 in a behind the scenes friendly too.

What?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Chris Smith on August 16, 2021, 12:22:33 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Scott Nielsen on August 16, 2021, 12:10:31 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on August 16, 2021, 10:55:11 AM
Thumped by liverpool 4-1 in a behind the scenes friendly too.

What?

I think it was for the squad players who didn’t feature on Saturday so the result if of no consequence.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on August 16, 2021, 12:24:26 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Demitri_C on August 16, 2021, 11:07:18 AM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on August 16, 2021, 10:53:27 AM
Quote from: sid1964 on August 16, 2021, 06:48:07 AM
We have to beat Newcastle on Saturday.

Any truth in the rumours that Dean was called into a meeting with Purslow yesterday?

Could be something as innocent as just discussing the restructing of the coaching staff. I assume we're interviewing people now to replace O'Kelly (assume this McPhee guy is the Terry replacement if he's supposed to be hot on set pieces).

If it happened at all of course.

The set pieces are more atrocious than ever. Mcphee has his work cut out



Yep, they were horrible. Floaty Westwood-esque corners from Buendia and terrible free kicks from Cash that failed to even get over the wall.  He's going to have to have use more magic than Nanny Macphee.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Demitri_C on August 16, 2021, 12:35:20 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Chris Smith on August 16, 2021, 12:22:33 PM
Quote from: Scott Nielsen on August 16, 2021, 12:10:31 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on August 16, 2021, 10:55:11 AM
Thumped by liverpool 4-1 in a behind the scenes friendly too.

What?

I think it was for the squad players who didn’t feature on Saturday so the result if of no consequence.

Is that confirmed? Id be having the first teamers in as well as alot of them looked poor.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Footy-Vill on August 16, 2021, 09:02:42 PM
			

			

				Dean Smith: "We were unrecognisable from what I've seen in pre-season in the first half and what I had seen last season. We lacked intensity and got done on the counter. We were better in the second half but were always going to leave ourselves a little open. 

"I made no uncertain terms at half time that you can't come and expect to play casual. It was almost like it was an international friendly at times we've got new players who can play in a number of different positions. We were missing Ollie Watkins through injury.
 "Whether Jack [Grealish] is in or not, we can perform certainly a lot better than that. We had spells in the second half. There is always a bounce when you are newly promoted and their fans got behind them but I don't put the loss down to that. "We want them [new signings] to settle in quicker than that. We’ve got another game against Newcastle United next week. 
Some of our play was ok in the second half but we didn’t play at the tempo I want from our team."
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: PaulTheVillan on August 16, 2021, 09:05:26 PM
			

			

				Watkins left wing stuff amuses me 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Toronto Villa on August 17, 2021, 03:58:49 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Demitri_C on August 16, 2021, 10:55:11 AM
Thumped by liverpool 4-1 in a behind the scenes friendly too.

Very worrying signs for me

Hahaha what the fuck are you on about? You know it was a bunch of reserves and players who haven’t featured in our curtailed pre season. It was behind closed doors because IT WASN’T A REAL GAME
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: PhilVill on August 17, 2021, 04:32:55 AM
			

			

				Let’s just see what happens at a packed Villa Park on Saturday against fairly average fare. A good win and we’re on our way, a dismal loss and Smith should rightly be under pressure as that will be far more unacceptable than Watford away. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Demitri_C on August 17, 2021, 09:38:04 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Toronto Villa on August 17, 2021, 03:58:49 AM
Quote from: Demitri_C on August 16, 2021, 10:55:11 AM
Thumped by liverpool 4-1 in a behind the scenes friendly too.

Very worrying signs for me

Hahaha what the fuck are you on about? You know it was a bunch of reserves and players who haven’t featured in our curtailed pre season. It was behind closed doors because IT WASN’T A REAL GAME

Who cares if it was a real game or not? In these two games we have conceded seven goals. Not ideal preparation for the start of the season.

You cabt pretend that eveything is ok but the rpe season preparation has been a complete shambles
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on August 17, 2021, 10:54:49 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Toronto Villa on August 17, 2021, 03:58:49 AM
Quote from: Demitri_C on August 16, 2021, 10:55:11 AM
Thumped by liverpool 4-1 in a behind the scenes friendly too.

Very worrying signs for me

Hahaha what the fuck are you on about? You know it was a bunch of reserves and players who haven’t featured in our curtailed pre season. It was behind closed doors because IT WASN’T A REAL GAME

Well the injury to Traore that’s now being widely reported is certainly a concern, seeing as he was one of our better players on Saturday.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Steve67 on August 17, 2021, 03:07:38 PM
			

			

				It wasn’t a real game for Liverpool either!

If Dean Smith is satisfied with his squad, I trust his word but still think we have a very soft underbelly and a huge gap in the centre of the park.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: dave.woodhall on August 17, 2021, 03:19:08 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Demitri_C on August 17, 2021, 09:38:04 AM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on August 17, 2021, 03:58:49 AM
Quote from: Demitri_C on August 16, 2021, 10:55:11 AM
Thumped by liverpool 4-1 in a behind the scenes friendly too.

Very worrying signs for me

Hahaha what the fuck are you on about? You know it was a bunch of reserves and players who haven’t featured in our curtailed pre season. It was behind closed doors because IT WASN’T A REAL GAME

Who cares if it was a real game or not? In these two games we have conceded seven goals. Not ideal preparation for the start of the season.

You cabt pretend that eveything is ok but the rpe season preparation has been a complete shambles

We can't have conceded seven goals in two games if one of them wasn't a real game. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ian. on August 17, 2021, 03:26:33 PM
			

			

				Traore could well have got injured training on Monday or playing the following Saturday. Him taking part in a practice training style friendly isn’t a reason to be pissed off about. Those not in the first team have probably really had no game time since last season, hence the Sunday’s training match.

We’ve had a terrible pre-season, two games called off because of Covid and we looked a bit short in match fitness, sharpness and preparation. It’s the first game of a very long season.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: PaulTheVillan on August 17, 2021, 09:26:23 PM
			

			

				Happy for any of the players to be playing an extra game behind closed doors. Get some stats on fitness and distance covered. See if we have other options than the dross from the weekend 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Dante Lavelli on August 17, 2021, 09:36:32 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: PaulTheVillan on August 17, 2021, 09:26:23 PM
Happy for any of the players to be playing an extra game behind closed doors. Get some stats on fitness and distance covered. See if we have other options than the dross from the weekend 

I’d have been more disappointed if a game wasn’t organised. Smith - assuming he was there - deserves credit for putting in the overtime.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ozzjim on August 18, 2021, 07:13:03 AM
			

			

				They clearly need minutes in their legs. United played one in Monday too. This pre season has been so trunkated its been very tough to sort. It's just unfortunate that Bert seems to have got injured. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Demitri_C on August 19, 2021, 08:43:08 AM
			

			

				Looking at September's fixtures/early october games are not easy at all.

Its too early to say must win but we really need a couple wins against Newcastle and brentford afters saturdays poor result
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on August 19, 2021, 10:59:43 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: ozzjim on August 18, 2021, 07:13:03 AM
They clearly need minutes in their legs. United played one in Monday too. This pre season has been so trunkated its been very tough to sort. It's just unfortunate that Bert seems to have got injured.

United? Newcastle? Or Sheffield? Maybe West Ham as Sheffield aren't in the Premier League now?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Lastfootstamper on August 19, 2021, 11:03:37 AM
			

			

				Leeds? 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: richtheholtender on August 19, 2021, 11:46:13 AM
			

			

				You just know if he'd gone anywhere else he'd be tip of the assist table, scored 10+ goals and be valued between £60-£80 million
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Footy-Vill on August 20, 2021, 10:04:33 AM
			

			

				So overall it's far too early to think Smith can't make this team and sqaud into competitive force and year on year he's improved our position.
The frustration is the somewhat inconsistencies and repeated errors from past that don't totally leave our players.

I very much hope in expectations for 2 wins and a jolly messaging board before the international break period.
A defeat in either against our old manager or Dean old club will naturally have people questions on things.

I want Dean Smith to succeed and has the right accumen to do so just hope he gets the right players and coaches around him
Up the Villa.

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ozzjim on August 20, 2021, 10:16:21 AM
			

			

				I think the assistant appointment is potentially as important as anyone we buy on the pitch this summer. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Demitri_C on August 20, 2021, 03:38:06 PM
			

			

				Tomorrow will say alot about villa under smith post grealish.  If its another shit display like last week its going to be  a massive worry. Hopefully that was a one off because if we have any aspirations for europe this is the games we need to be winning
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: villadelph on August 20, 2021, 04:11:24 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Demitri_C on August 20, 2021, 03:38:06 PM
Tomorrow will say alot about villa under smith post grealish.  If its another shit display like last week its going to be  a massive worry. Hopefully that was a one off because if we have any aspirations for europe this is the games we need to be winning

I won't be worried until the starting lineup looks the way we all envisioned. 

That said, I better see a decent game plan. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: chrisw1 on August 20, 2021, 04:25:18 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Demitri_C on August 20, 2021, 03:38:06 PM
Tomorrow will say alot about villa under smith post grealish.  If its another shit display like last week its going to be  a massive worry. Hopefully that was a one off because if we have any aspirations for europe this is the games we need to be winning
I dunno about that.  With Watkins and Traore injured, Bailey & Luiz not fit to start, Buendia still finding his feet, Targett coming back from having 6 weeks in a protective leg boot - I think we're quite a long way from seeing what Villa under Smith post Grealish might look like.

That's not to say I'm not concerned about tomorrow, but I'll hold my judgment until he actually gets to play the players he wants to.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: achilles on August 20, 2021, 06:15:24 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: chrisw1 on August 20, 2021, 04:25:18 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on August 20, 2021, 03:38:06 PM
Tomorrow will say alot about villa under smith post grealish.  If its another shit display like last week its going to be  a massive worry. Hopefully that was a one off because if we have any aspirations for europe this is the games we need to be winning
I dunno about that.  With Watkins and Traore injured, Bailey & Luiz not fit to start, Buendia still finding his feet, Targett coming back from having 6 weeks in a protective leg boot - I think we're quite a long way from seeing what Villa under Smith post Grealish might look like.

That's not to say I'm not concerned about tomorrow, but I'll hold my judgment until he actually gets to play the players he wants to.

... and just when will that be? It is the same for most teams unless you have massive squads, you have to make the best of what you have and stop making excuses or the excuses never end!
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: wince on August 21, 2021, 12:03:35 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: chrisw1 on August 20, 2021, 04:25:18 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on August 20, 2021, 03:38:06 PM
Tomorrow will say alot about villa under smith post grealish.  If its another shit display like last week its going to be  a massive worry. Hopefully that was a one off because if we have any aspirations for europe this is the games we need to be winning
I dunno about that.  With Watkins and Traore injured, Bailey & Luiz not fit to start, Buendia still finding his feet, Targett coming back from having 6 weeks in a protective leg boot - I think we're quite a long way from seeing what Villa under Smith post Grealish might look like.

That's not to say I'm not concerned about tomorrow, but I'll hold my judgment until he actually gets to play the players he wants to.

I don’t think we have the patience. When a bad run starts it opens the floodgates. As much as I like Dean I still say he has reached his ceiling at the moment. Needs to get a tune from the team as last week was embarrassing. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ez on August 21, 2021, 12:19:07 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: villadelph on August 20, 2021, 04:11:24 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on August 20, 2021, 03:38:06 PM
Tomorrow will say alot about villa under smith post grealish.  If its another shit display like last week its going to be  a massive worry. Hopefully that was a one off because if we have any aspirations for europe this is the games we need to be winning

I won't be worried until the starting lineup looks the way we all envisioned. 

That said, I better see a decent game plan.

I don't think there will be a definate starting lineup. I hope we are moving into the realms of squad rotation at last. We need to to get champions league football.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: andyh on August 21, 2021, 12:21:25 PM
			

			

				How does a manager not know the full extent of an injury one of his star players has?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: eamonn on August 21, 2021, 12:32:52 PM
			

			

				With bruising (which is what Ollie has, I think?), it's harder to forecast a return. Just like when you played footy as a kid and you got got a whack to the leg, leaving you purple and blue for a while. Mother Nature heals at her own pace.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: N'ZMAV on August 21, 2021, 12:45:30 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: andyh on August 21, 2021, 12:21:25 PM
How does a manager not know the full extent of an injury one of his star players has?
 he's just playing it a bit coy with the media
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: DrGonzo on August 21, 2021, 12:56:05 PM
			

			

				I think he actually said it hadn't healed as quickly as they had hoped.  So rather than panic and maybe make matters worse they'll let it take it's course.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: WarszaVillan on August 21, 2021, 12:59:53 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: DrGonzo on August 21, 2021, 12:56:05 PM
I think he actually said it hadn't healed as quickly as they had hoped.  So rather than panic and maybe make matters worse they'll let it take it's course.

You'd have thought with all the money we have we could buy players that don't bruise.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on August 21, 2021, 02:27:04 PM
			

			

				With knees it's the lateral movements that are the problem, if it's uncomfortable to turn or change direction then it's just not worth the risk.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Demitri_C on August 25, 2021, 09:40:04 AM
			

			

				I think we have to give deano alot of credit fir that team selection last night. He easily could have gone with chuk senior ahead of archer. Also giving extended minutes for youngsters like JPB, chuk jr and giving conor the captains armband.

Well done deano 👏
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on August 26, 2021, 03:13:07 PM
			

			

				Good read here (https://beesotted.com/word-on-the-street-catching-up-with-dean-smith-in-the-premier-league/) on Dean's time at Brentford. The 'Feast or Famine' line is certainly still a trait he has if last season is anything to go by. Here's hoping Dean can continue to step up as everybody that has had him as their Coach agrees what a class act he is. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Monty on August 26, 2021, 03:26:31 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on August 26, 2021, 03:13:07 PM
Good read here (https://beesotted.com/word-on-the-street-catching-up-with-dean-smith-in-the-premier-league/) on Dean's time at Brentford. The 'Feast or Famine' line is certainly still a trait he has if last season is anything to go by. Here's hoping Dean can continue to step up as everybody that has had him as their Coach agrees what a class act he is. 

Good read, but fuck me, is he aware that Brentford's name isn't actually 'the Bees'? It's like there's a swarm in the article.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on August 26, 2021, 03:45:04 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Monty on August 26, 2021, 03:26:31 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on August 26, 2021, 03:13:07 PM
Good read here (https://beesotted.com/word-on-the-street-catching-up-with-dean-smith-in-the-premier-league/) on Dean's time at Brentford. The 'Feast or Famine' line is certainly still a trait he has if last season is anything to go by. Here's hoping Dean can continue to step up as everybody that has had him as their Coach agrees what a class act he is. 

Good read, but fuck me, is he aware that Brentford's name isn't actually 'the Bees'? It's like there's a swarm in the article.

Wait until you discover the LGBeeTs, these Brentford lot beesotted with their nickname.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Lastfootstamper on September 11, 2021, 07:54:05 PM
			

			

				On that, given what they've got to work with, the Great Barr Brummie's better than Tuchel. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Footy-Vill on September 11, 2021, 11:58:11 PM
			

			

				Bit too much resorting to long throws isn't most pleasing to me.
I think he's great coach and he's obviously trying new things and ways to create without Kack Grealish 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Demitri_C on September 12, 2021, 07:01:55 AM
			

			

				1 win in 4 and 4 points of 12 is not a good start for me. Still early days can change and not suggesting a change. However if we have aspirations of improvement and europe things need to improve quickly or we will be playjng catchup.

Havent overly been impressed with the defending this year. Dont know if terry leaving is one of the reasons but it needs to get alot better. All i know is 3at the back is a disaster for us. We look terrible defenively in that formation
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: mr underhill on September 12, 2021, 07:19:33 AM
			

			

				on thin ice - Potter in.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: sickbeggar on September 12, 2021, 07:51:15 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Demitri_C on September 12, 2021, 07:01:55 AM
1 win in 4 and 4 points of 12 is not a good start for me. Still early days can change and not suggesting a change. However if we have aspirations of improvement and europe things need to improve quickly or we will be playjng catchup.

Havent overly been impressed with the defending this year. Dont know if terry leaving is one of the reasons but it needs to get alot better. All i know is 3at the back is a disaster for us. We look terrible defenively in that formation


Don't agree really. We weren't carved open by Chelsea every time they attacked. Steer didn't spend the game pulling off one save after another as the defence buckled. The ability to pass it back to your 'keeper properly is pretty important to any formation. As is a centre half's ability not to give an attacker a free shot on goal by actually marking/making a challenge.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Clampy on September 12, 2021, 07:56:15 AM
			

			

				I thought we were pretty decent in the first half despite being behind. The second goal killed it sadly though. I'm not sure why McGinn was taking all the set pieces though. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Percy McCarthy on September 12, 2021, 08:02:02 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Clampy on September 12, 2021, 07:56:15 AM
I thought we were pretty decent in the first half despite being behind. The second goal killed it sadly though. I'm not sure why McGinn was taking all the set pieces though.

Because we wouldn’t stump up for probably the world’s best set-piece taker when we had the chance.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Demitri_C on September 12, 2021, 08:16:58 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: sickbeggar on September 12, 2021, 07:51:15 AM
Quote from: Demitri_C on September 12, 2021, 07:01:55 AM
1 win in 4 and 4 points of 12 is not a good start for me. Still early days can change and not suggesting a change. However if we have aspirations of improvement and europe things need to improve quickly or we will be playjng catchup.

Havent overly been impressed with the defending this year. Dont know if terry leaving is one of the reasons but it needs to get alot better. All i know is 3at the back is a disaster for us. We look terrible defenively in that formation


Don't agree really. We weren't carved open by Chelsea every time they attacked. Steer didn't spend the game pulling off one save after another as the defence buckled. The ability to pass it back to your 'keeper properly is pretty important to any formation. As is a centre half's ability not to give an attacker a free shot on goal by actually marking/making a challenge.

I disagree 1st and 3rd goals we were all over the shop

I definitely agree about your mings point though. Shocking and abysmal from him
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ads on September 12, 2021, 08:37:39 AM
			

			

				Was Watkins miss shocking and abysmal?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ian. on September 12, 2021, 09:06:41 AM
			

			

				This is my thoughts. Mings gets bombed every time he makes a mistake because it sometimes lets in a goal. When make mistakes which result in us not scoring it’s the same thing. Both of these prevent us from winning matches. We’re happy to praise the good parts of Ollie’s game and not so quick to praise the positive aspects of Ming’s game.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on September 12, 2021, 09:31:23 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Ian. on September 12, 2021, 09:06:41 AM
This is my thoughts. Mings gets bombed every time he makes a mistake because it sometimes lets in a goal. When make mistakes which result in us not scoring it’s the same thing. Both of these prevent us from winning matches. We’re happy to praise the good parts of Ollie’s game and not so quick to praise the positive aspects of Ming’s game.

It's not the same thing though. You've always got a chance to score another goal, but you can't undo a goal you've conceded. His first one was just pure Mings, under no real pressure and just does something really daft that handed them a goal on a plate. Second wasn't much better, although it was just plain bad defending rather than a mistake.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ian. on September 12, 2021, 09:35:16 AM
			

			

				I’ve watched matches when we’ve only had one chance. Against the best it’s even more important to concentrate at both ends. I’m not denying Mings made an error which lead to a goal. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ads on September 12, 2021, 09:35:48 AM
			

			

				It was a maddening error at a maddening time. But it should have been the equaliser or the goal that brought Chelsea back to within 1.

A very costly error, but no more costly than the misses in tje first half.

What we need to do though is bottle up that energy and endeavour to hit the box and create and sprinkle it everywhere we go. If we'd played like that against Watford and had the players available against Brentford, we'd have run all over the pair of them.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: brontebilly on September 12, 2021, 09:39:22 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Ads on September 12, 2021, 08:37:39 AM
Was Watkins miss shocking and abysmal?

It was terrible? 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Monty on September 12, 2021, 09:39:50 AM
			

			

				I have to say, beyond the antipathy to the system which last won us a trophy, I'm not sure about the criticism of Dean for yesterday. I mean, I've criticised him a lot when he's got things wrong, but I thought his tactics worked out pretty much perfectly yesterday. A manager can only set things up, and as far as the set-up went he outfoxed Tuchel for the first half yesterday, as pretty much every single neutral report attests to.

The 3 defenders played relatively high when we didn't have the ball, squeezing the space between them and the midfield which gave the Chelsea front 3 little to work with. Then we matched them out wide, and overcrowded them in the midfield, which was clearly the plan - let them have the ball in their defence and midfield, wait for the moment, slam into them, win the ball high and attack fast. We did it time and time again in the first half, and that was Dean's tactics working out exactly as he meant them.

Unfortunately, as SamTheMouse said on the match thread, we've just sold a £100m player and they've just signed one, and that's before you throw in a defensive error so basic it must make a manager wonder what the point of it all is. Plenty of teams will lose 3-0 to Chelsea; what's encouraging is that few of those will be as hard done by the scoreline as we were yesterday.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on September 12, 2021, 09:47:12 AM
			

			

				I agree with that Monty, apart from the five at the back, which seems to have worked well and didn't see us sitting back so I guess I'm wrong. I therefore agree with it all.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ads on September 12, 2021, 09:48:09 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: brontebilly on September 12, 2021, 09:39:22 AM
Quote from: Ads on September 12, 2021, 08:37:39 AM
Was Watkins miss shocking and abysmal?

It was terrible? 

It was a poor miss and he should have done better. It cost us. I don't want Ollie poured with scorn though, but wonder why he's not copping as much flak as Tyrone. Both do their jobs, crikey, we probably win the game.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ads on September 12, 2021, 09:52:44 AM
			

			

				System and tactics were spot on. We got turned over by individuals; Lukaku and Jorginho and Mings/Watkins.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ian. on September 12, 2021, 09:57:18 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Ads on September 12, 2021, 09:48:09 AM
Quote from: brontebilly on September 12, 2021, 09:39:22 AM
Quote from: Ads on September 12, 2021, 08:37:39 AM
Was Watkins miss shocking and abysmal?

It was terrible? 

It was a poor miss and he should have done better. It cost us. I don't want Ollie poured with scorn though, but wonder why he's not copping as much flak as Tyrone. Both do their jobs, crikey, we probably win the game.

Completely agree Ads. It was terrible, but like Mings, they both do so much for us and are essential cogs to our team.  I don’t want either condemned and lambasted. I’m sure Smith has had a pop and Ming’s and Ollie will be very critical of themselves too.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ian. on September 12, 2021, 09:58:48 AM
			

			

				I’m not a fan of this system but surprisingly it actually worked very well.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Monty on September 12, 2021, 10:00:40 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on September 12, 2021, 09:47:12 AM
I agree with that Monty, apart from the five at the back, which seems to have worked well and didn't see us sitting back so I guess I'm wrong. I therefore agree with it all.

Yeah I was worried that was how it would turn out as well, but they went into the match with a positive mindset and that makes the difference. How high the line of three plays is always the determiner of whether you've got an intense system flooding the middle, or if your just playing Bruceish damage limitation cowardball. Definitely the former from us yesterday.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: mr underhill on September 12, 2021, 11:41:03 AM
			

			

				It worked so well, we got stuffed, having beaten them quite convincingly in May.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on September 12, 2021, 11:43:33 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: mr underhill on September 12, 2021, 11:41:03 AM
It worked so well, we got stuffed, having beaten them quite convincingly in May.
And it was working so well he stuck to it even when we were losing 2 nil.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on September 12, 2021, 12:04:09 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Demitri_C on September 12, 2021, 07:01:55 AM
1 win in 4 and 4 points of 12 is not a good start for me. Still early days can change and not suggesting a change. However if we have aspirations of improvement and europe things need to improve quickly or we will be playjng catchup.

Havent overly been impressed with the defending this year. Dont know if terry leaving is one of the reasons but it needs to get alot better. All i know is 3at the back is a disaster for us. We look terrible defenively in that formation

Dem you need to take a breath sometimes. We have 4 points after 3 games in a couple of the MON 6th seasons.

Unless people really are demanding 4th-6th I don't get why certain posters are so jumpy currently. Countless times have finished 8th and 9th in seasons with poorer starts than we have.

It's early days but I think Everton is a pretty big game for the manager and will set the tempo for next few months. They've started well but we're unbeaten in four v them since we came back so team has no fear of them.

Win that, draw at Spurs and then beat Wolves which I think is next home game and then it tends into a pretty good start in circumstances as we're taking points off teams we want to be finishing above this season.

Don't and it starts to become tricky for the manager as we'll be stuck in the bottom half. I do think we'll get better as the season goes on though so would be disappointed if his job came under serious threat.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ads on September 12, 2021, 12:08:47 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: mr underhill on September 12, 2021, 11:41:03 AM
It worked so well, we got stuffed, having beaten them quite convincingly in May.

An odd comment. We changed the system during the game.

We brought Bailey and Traore on who played either side of Watkins and had McGinn and then Nkamba in midfield.

We played better yesterday than we did in May. The difference was Mr Jigsaw played up front for them then and Lukaku does now. If the later had played in May, we'd have been 3 down in the opening half hour where they totally dominated us.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Monty on September 12, 2021, 12:36:10 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Ads on September 12, 2021, 12:08:47 PM
Quote from: mr underhill on September 12, 2021, 11:41:03 AM
It worked so well, we got stuffed, having beaten them quite convincingly in May.

An odd comment. We changed the system during the game.

We brought Bailey and Traore on who played either side of Watkins and had McGinn and then Nkamba in midfield.

We played better yesterday than we did in May. The difference was Mr Jigsaw played up front for them then and Lukaku does now. If the later had played in May, we'd have been 3 down in the opening half hour where they totally dominated us.

Exacftly. Football isn't like tennis, where if you play better you will win practically 100% of the time. You can get your strategy right, your players can carry it out perfectly, but if your guy up front hits the keeper and their guy beats the keeper that's that, game changed.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on September 12, 2021, 12:38:51 PM
			

			

				I know five at the back is the new thing now because of Southgates success and it’s bound to be copied
But I never liked it with the England And I’m not going to change my mind when we play it

It’s too negative and sends the wrong message from the start
Confuses players, no one knows what job to do
Takes up a place which should be given to a more forward player
It doesn’t work anyway because we still concede a bunch of goals

It’s a rubbish system and should be binned




			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ads on September 12, 2021, 12:40:11 PM
			

			

				Another odd comment after our most successful attacking display of the season and against an opponent who've just won a European Cup playing it.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Monty on September 12, 2021, 12:44:09 PM
			

			

				It's all a bit strange. We weren't negative yesterday at all, and the three at the back helped us win the ball by squeezing the space and blocking passing options. Southgate isn't the catalyst - he's copying the people who've found success bringing it back like Conte and Gasperini.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on September 12, 2021, 12:59:51 PM
			

			

				Ads Monty
I also thought it was a good performance especially in the first half
But swap Mings or Tuanzebe for Bailey or Traore and instead of having a good half but still losing three nil we might actually cause them more problems and score ourselves

i’ve had loads of arguments on here when I’ve disagreed with a formation or Line up 
And if we’ve happened to win I get the same answer
‘ we won so it was the right decision‘
Well we conceded 3 yesterday So it didn’t work

(I don’t actually believe that myself but I’m just reversing what other people have said in the past)
But I would never play a back 5 I’d rather be more offensive

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Monty on September 12, 2021, 01:04:17 PM
			

			

				Yeah I've never been of the 'we won so it was right' mentality either, I was very critical after the Newcastle win for instance.

I think you're making the error of assuming there's 'attack' and 'defence' and if you're doing well it's basically a matter of numbers at either end. I don't think this is true - we were attacking so well because the 3 defenders were stepping up, closing down the space and helping us to win the ball back in midfield, and in their half as well. It genuinely wasn't a back 5 the instant we got the ball, the wing backs pushing on massively, and had we played a back four their front 3 could well have had a lot more space to get round our midfield press, forcing our defensive line deeper. Therefore you could argue that a 4-3-3, playing deep and relying on counterattacking balls into channels to wide forwards, would have been far more negative than what we did.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on September 12, 2021, 01:11:05 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Monty on September 12, 2021, 01:04:17 PM
Yeah I've never been of the 'we won so it was right' mentality either, I was very critical after the Newcastle win for instance.

I think you're making the error of assuming there's 'attack' and 'defence' and if you're doing well it's basically a matter of numbers at either end. I don't think this is true - we were attacking so well because the 3 defenders were stepping up, closing down the space and helping us to win the ball back in midfield, and in their half as well. It genuinely wasn't a back 5 the instant we got the ball, the wing backs pushing on massively, and had we played a back four their front 3 could well have had a lot more space to get round our midfield press, forcing our defensive line deeper. Therefore you could argue that a 4-3-3, playing deep and relying on counterattacking balls into channels to wide forwards, would have been far more negative than what we did.

The same arguments were used with the England set up though
But if you’re going to play a 433 then play one

Triora or Bailey are bound to be more creative than a central defender it’s not even an argument
Obviously you will then lose the extra man at the back but like I said before we still conceded and I’m not sure the extra CD helps a lot of the time

I did think the three in midfield were Brilliant yesterday so I’m not being all Mardy




			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Monty on September 12, 2021, 01:16:29 PM
			

			

				You have to have the ball to attack with it. I think there's a good argument that a 4-3-3 makes it too easy for Chelsea to manoeuvre round us. It's not just about who is 'creative' individually, it's a team game.

England actually are pissing negative with their 3 at the back though, that's the difference. Did you notice who we were playing, their formation? Is three at the back good because they won 3-0? You're not actually addressing the argument of how we played, I feel, of whether we could have had the same joy we did winning the ball high up if we'd had Traoré out there and a bigger space through the middle.

As an aside, there isn't a manager alive more obsessed with getting players in the opposition half than Bielsa, and he's played 3 at the back for like thirty years.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on September 12, 2021, 01:26:40 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Monty on September 12, 2021, 01:16:29 PM
You have to have the ball to attack with it. I think there's a good argument that a 4-3-3 makes it too easy for Chelsea to manoeuvre round us. It's not just about who is 'creative' individually, it's a team game.

England actually are pissing negative with their 3 at the back though, that's the difference. Did you notice who we were playing, their formation? Is three at the back good because they won 3-0? You're not actually addressing the argument of how we played, I feel, of whether we could have had the same joy we did winning the ball high up if we'd had Traoré out there and a bigger space through the middle.

We did play well I just think we might have played better with a more offensive formation
The problem I have is I’ve always been a gambling man by nature it’s got me into lots of problems
So when we are 2 nill down I don’t wanna see five at the back
Then I don’t wanna see five at the back to start with because I want to be the team that’s two nil up

Personally I think Smith is too cautious same as all the British managers we’ve had in the last decade
It will do for him in the end
One thing that Pep Fergie klopp Tuchel Have in common they make risky and brave decisions 

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Monty on September 12, 2021, 01:28:01 PM
			

			

				But it was an offensive formation. And 4-3-3 might have been more defensive as I said (and Christ knows it can be defensive - not Mourinho's favourite formation for nothing). 

And one thing that Pep and Tuchel have in common is playing three at the back. You don't see the contradiction in what your saying? That the formation is too cautious but then praising people as risk-taking and brave who in fact play it?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on September 12, 2021, 02:25:54 PM
			

			

				Well we tried something different and whilst the result didn't go our way, there was promise in the performance. I like that we tried something else and looked good, sometimes really good.

If the strikers had been swapped around we'd have won. Simple as that. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: West Derby Villan on September 12, 2021, 02:38:26 PM
			

			

				People complain that there’s no plan B, we tried plan B, played extremely well, created loads of chances and they’re still not happy. Ollie first full match of the season, of course he’s a bit “ ring rusty” Deano just can’t win with some of our fans. He hasnt even had an opportunity to play his first choice line up yet!
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: N'ZMAV on September 12, 2021, 02:40:56 PM
			

			

				wasn't Dean Smith's fault yesterday that there was individual errors in both penalty boxes.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on September 12, 2021, 03:08:07 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Monty on September 12, 2021, 01:28:01 PM
But it was an offensive formation. And 4-3-3 might have been more defensive as I said (and Christ knows it can be defensive - not Mourinho's favourite formation for nothing). 

And one thing that Pep and Tuchel have in common is playing three at the back. You don't see the contradiction in what your saying? That the formation is too cautious but then praising people as risk-taking and brave who in fact play it?

It wasn’t 433
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on September 12, 2021, 03:27:58 PM
			

			

				Monty made a good point over the page.

I honestly think we'll learn more to progress over next few months from yesterday's defeat than say when we beat Newcastle who are a poor team who'll end somewhere in bottom six and we didn't actually play that well, just scored at the right times (as Chelsea did yesterday).

While no one likes losing it's going to happen plenty of times in transitional seasons and sometimes it can show a way forward. I remember us years back in one of the O'Neill seasons playing Arsenal who were top and flying. We lost but played really well and get loads of plaudits in the press and then we hit a nice run of form over the next few months.

Thought it was a positive DS actually changed the formation rather than just blindly sticking to 4-2-3-1. Now we see v top 6 McGinn is more effective being pushed as advanced midfielder who can press from the front and it's essential we have Ollie for those games aswell.

Gives him a few issues e.g. where do the likes of Buendia fit into the system and is Danny Ings really undroppable. Up to him to tweak things as season goes on rather than just think they're undroppable due to the prices we paid for them so look forward to how it plays out as season goes on.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Monty on September 12, 2021, 03:33:33 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: john e on September 12, 2021, 03:08:07 PM
Quote from: Monty on September 12, 2021, 01:28:01 PM
But it was an offensive formation. And 4-3-3 might have been more defensive as I said (and Christ knows it can be defensive - not Mourinho's favourite formation for nothing). 

And one thing that Pep and Tuchel have in common is playing three at the back. You don't see the contradiction in what your saying? That the formation is too cautious but then praising people as risk-taking and brave who in fact play it?

It wasn’t 433

[Bangs head into wall]
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Allan C on September 12, 2021, 05:42:05 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: West Derby Villan on September 12, 2021, 02:38:26 PM
People complain that there’s no plan B, we tried plan B, played extremely well, created loads of chances and they’re still not happy. Ollie first full match of the season, of course he’s a bit “ ring rusty” Deano just can’t win with some of our fans. He hasnt even had an opportunity to play his first choice line up yet!
Nail hit firmly on the head. Some won’t be happy til we get that wonder of the south coast Potter in. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ian. on September 12, 2021, 05:57:21 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Allan C on September 12, 2021, 05:42:05 PM
Quote from: West Derby Villan on September 12, 2021, 02:38:26 PM
People complain that there’s no plan B, we tried plan B, played extremely well, created loads of chances and they’re still not happy. Ollie first full match of the season, of course he’s a bit “ ring rusty” Deano just can’t win with some of our fans. He hasnt even had an opportunity to play his first choice line up yet!
Nail hit firmly on the head. Some won’t be happy til we get that wonder of the south coast Potter in. 
Yep! Absolutely. 

Anyway, who’s Potter? That fella from Phoenix Nights?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: eamonn on September 12, 2021, 06:08:31 PM
			

			

				Nope, Graham, Brighton's gentle but brainy guru in charge. A Villa man too....allegedly.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: eamonn on September 12, 2021, 06:10:38 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: mr underhill on September 12, 2021, 11:41:03 AM
It worked so well, we got stuffed, having beaten them quite convincingly in May.

Strange how we see things differently. We were very fortunate to win that game in May, I thought. Chelsea were in control much of the time. Yesterday we played far better as a team and had a gameplan that caused them lots of problems. They just now happen to have the one thing they were missing in May, a genuine world-class centre forward. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: dave shelley on September 12, 2021, 06:20:46 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Ian. on September 12, 2021, 05:57:21 PM
Quote from: Allan C on September 12, 2021, 05:42:05 PM
Quote from: West Derby Villan on September 12, 2021, 02:38:26 PM
People complain that there’s no plan B, we tried plan B, played extremely well, created loads of chances and they’re still not happy. Ollie first full match of the season, of course he’s a bit “ ring rusty” Deano just can’t win with some of our fans. He hasnt even had an opportunity to play his first choice line up yet!
Nail hit firmly on the head. Some won’t be happy til we get that wonder of the south coast Potter in. 
Yep! Absolutely. 

Anyway, who’s Potter? That fella from Phoenix Nights?

No.  This is Potter (https://www.google.com/search?q=potter+please+sir&rlz=1C1AVSF_enIE801IE801&sxsrf=AOaemvJlUP702eZzR_4AXkU1EhbCQF1wIg:1631467143116&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=xGdD-876HD9UWM%252CFmJcBrA9yo0x1M%252C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kTr-R0GNCcrf1u-q7s-BF5gBrRNjA&sa=X&sqi=2&ved=2ahUKEwjSoZzc-PnyAhVqRvEDHVqHBiwQ9QF6BAgVEAE#imgrc=aTqoFQbwfyS5-M)
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: RamboandBruno on September 12, 2021, 06:24:12 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: eamonn on September 12, 2021, 06:10:38 PM
Quote from: mr underhill on September 12, 2021, 11:41:03 AM
It worked so well, we got stuffed, having beaten them quite convincingly in May.

Strange how we see things differently. We were very fortunate to win that game in May, I thought. Chelsea were in control much of the time. Yesterday we played far better as a team and had a gameplan that caused them lots of problems. They just now happen to have the one thing they were missing in May, a genuine world-class centre forward.

I think Smith did take risks yesterday and it would of came of if our finishing had been better and/or their keeper didnt play so well. 
I think it shows now with the players we’ve brought in, we change things around for different challenges. 
Saying all this i think he wont play that system next week. I think he’ll go back to a 4 with Tuanzebe coming out. I also wouldn’t be surprised if Ings drops to the bench and he flanks Watkins with Beundia and Bailey, keeping the midfield 3 of McGinn, Ramsey and Dougie.  
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Steve67 on September 12, 2021, 07:25:34 PM
			

			

				The scoreline flatters Chelsea.  We didn't go there to sit behind the ball despite having 5 defenders in the line up.  If we had put our chances away, we'd have won and won well.  Two silly mistakes, against arguably one of the top five strikers in the world and we were made to pay.  I hated the result, but enjoyed the way we played I hope we are this brave against every side we play and not just because it was a title contending side.  The very fact that Dean Smith failed to bring in a good DCM tells me that he will never be a defensive manager.  It might cost him eventually but yesterday was a good watch. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on September 12, 2021, 11:31:57 PM
			

			

				Every player in our squad has improved and increased in value under Smith. As have the club's results in terms of end of season league position.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ian. on September 13, 2021, 07:05:24 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: eamonn on September 12, 2021, 06:08:31 PM
Nope, Graham, Brighton's gentle but brainy guru in charge. A Villa man too....allegedly.

Oh, Brighton’s Potter, yes let’s get him in, he is a Villa man. So what happens if we have another unsettled summer, maybe if we don’t start the season too well because of one disruption or another we’ll ditch him after four games and employ the real Potter.

Good one mrunderhill.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: WarszaVillan on September 13, 2021, 08:36:04 AM
			

			

				I thought Smith got everything pretty much spot on against Chelsea. Just individual errors and not getting the rub of the green cost us.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: algy on September 13, 2021, 09:14:04 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Drummond on September 12, 2021, 11:31:57 PM
Every player in our squad has improved and increased in value under Smith. As have the club's results in terms of end of season league position.
Yeah, this sums it up for me.

I like Potter, and I'd not be against him becoming Villa manager in the future - but I also think that Dean is a really, really good coach.  I don't know what his 'limit' is, but I'm confident that he hasn't reached it yet.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: dave.woodhall on September 13, 2021, 09:24:14 AM
			

			

				I was talking to a friend of equal vintage last week. He agreed with me that with today's supporter expectations Ron Saunders would have been lucky to survive beyond the end of 1978-79 and would almost certainly have been sacked a few weeks into the following season. After all, eighth, eighth and seventh would indicate that he'd found his level. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on September 13, 2021, 09:35:36 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: dave.woodhall on September 13, 2021, 09:24:14 AM
I was talking to a friend of equal vintage last week. He agreed with me that with today's supporter expectations Ron Saunders would have been lucky to survive beyond the end of 1978-79 and would almost certainly have been sacked a few weeks into the following season. After all, eighth, eighth and seventh would indicate that he'd found his level.

And that's it, we're in a results business now more than ever before, mostly media driven of course and we're all a product of that. I do wonder as well whether it's about a winning mentality though, instead of it being 'the taking part that counts'.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Bobby Boy on September 13, 2021, 09:36:52 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: dave.woodhall on September 13, 2021, 09:24:14 AM
I was talking to a friend of equal vintage last week. He agreed with me that with today's supporter expectations Ron Saunders would have been lucky to survive beyond the end of 1978-79 and would almost certainly have been sacked a few weeks into the following season. After all, eighth, eighth and seventh would indicate that he'd found his level. 

I'm sure that you are right and it indicates more than anything the upped levels of scrutiny and therefore expectations that there are now. In the late 70's there weren't TV and radio channels pumping out wall-to-wall football with all the hours to fill and focus on individual results that inevitably increase pressure.

Saunders would have gone, Ferguson would definitely have gone. 

Perhaps also there's a greater impatience amongst fans. We live in a have-it-now society so maybe that plays a part? 

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: dave.woodhall on September 13, 2021, 09:42:50 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Bobby Boy on September 13, 2021, 09:36:52 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on September 13, 2021, 09:24:14 AM
I was talking to a friend of equal vintage last week. He agreed with me that with today's supporter expectations Ron Saunders would have been lucky to survive beyond the end of 1978-79 and would almost certainly have been sacked a few weeks into the following season. After all, eighth, eighth and seventh would indicate that he'd found his level. 

I'm sure that you are right and it indicates more than anything the upped levels of scrutiny and therefore expectations that there are now. In the late 70's there weren't TV and radio channels pumping out wall-to-wall football with all the hours to fill and focus on individual results that inevitably increase pressure.

Saunders would have gone, Ferguson would definitely have gone. 

Perhaps also there's a greater impatience amongst fans. We live in a have-it-now society so maybe that plays a part? 


Absolutely. Plus, some people are now full-time football supporters. They know everything about every player in the country, and soon find out about any one that's mentioned in the news. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: sickbeggar on September 13, 2021, 09:44:44 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Bobby Boy on September 13, 2021, 09:36:52 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on September 13, 2021, 09:24:14 AM
I was talking to a friend of equal vintage last week. He agreed with me that with today's supporter expectations Ron Saunders would have been lucky to survive beyond the end of 1978-79 and would almost certainly have been sacked a few weeks into the following season. After all, eighth, eighth and seventh would indicate that he'd found his level. 

I'm sure that you are right and it indicates more than anything the upped levels of scrutiny and therefore expectations that there are now. In the late 70's there weren't TV and radio channels pumping out wall-to-wall football with all the hours to fill and focus on individual results that inevitably increase pressure.

Saunders would have gone, Ferguson would definitely have gone. 

Perhaps also there's a greater impatience amongst fans. We live in a have-it-now society so maybe that plays a part?

Was going to write the same but you put it better.

Got me wondering when was the first concerted campaign by Villa fans to remove a manager that got reported in the media for just being a bit...….crap. Rather than being bottom of the league.

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Monty on September 13, 2021, 09:49:09 AM
			

			

				Here's our average position map from the first half against Chelsea (courtesy of The Athletic):

(https://i.ibb.co/LvF2kkW/Aston-Villa-position-first-half.png) (https://ibb.co/LvF2kkW)

Look how high the wide centre backs are, pushed right into midfield. With the exception of Axel providing an outball backwards in possession, there's like 30 yards between front and back. This was the strategy, overloading the midfield, squeezing the space and winning the ball off them in dangerous positions. It was a great plan, and it worked really well - the mistake we made, as the Graun had it, was not having Lukaku.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Rigadon on September 13, 2021, 10:09:11 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Monty on September 13, 2021, 09:49:09 AM
Here's our average position map from the first half against Chelsea (courtesy of The Athletic):

(https://i.ibb.co/LvF2kkW/Aston-Villa-position-first-half.png) (https://ibb.co/LvF2kkW)

Look how high the wide centre backs are, pushed right into midfield. With the exception of Axel providing an outball backwards in possession, there's like 30 yards between front and back. This was the strategy, overloading the midfield, squeezing the space and winning the ball off them in dangerous positions. It was a great plan, and it worked really well - the mistake we made, as the Graun had it, was not having Lukaku.

That's interesting, thanks for sharing it.  

And yes, sigh...  Another sharp reminder as to why it's better to have £100m players in your team.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on September 13, 2021, 10:22:50 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Monty on September 13, 2021, 09:49:09 AM
Here's our average position map from the first half against Chelsea (courtesy of The Athletic):

(https://i.ibb.co/LvF2kkW/Aston-Villa-position-first-half.png) (https://ibb.co/LvF2kkW)

Look how high the wide centre backs are, pushed right into midfield. With the exception of Axel providing an outball backwards in possession, there's like 30 yards between front and back. This was the strategy, overloading the midfield, squeezing the space and winning the ball off them in dangerous positions. It was a great plan, and it worked really well - the mistake we made, as the Graun had it, was not having Lukaku.

Everton havent got Lakaku and are more our level of squad at the moment
so it's an ideal opportunity to see how it goes against them as it was so successful on Saturday
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: LeeB on September 13, 2021, 10:24:14 AM
			

			

				If there is a right way to lose a game 3-0, that was it.

We need to be patient but I think we will look like a strong team come the end of the season, with some of the younger players firmly established as serious talents.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Monty on September 13, 2021, 10:26:15 AM
			

			

				I'd be willing to bet money that we'll go back to a 4-3-3 or 4-2-2-2 against Everton. The 3-5-2 was a specific plan for Chelsea, and from Dean's comments he seems to be especially happy about the variety of tactical options we have.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on September 13, 2021, 10:30:30 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Bobby Boy on September 13, 2021, 09:36:52 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on September 13, 2021, 09:24:14 AM
I was talking to a friend of equal vintage last week. He agreed with me that with today's supporter expectations Ron Saunders would have been lucky to survive beyond the end of 1978-79 and would almost certainly have been sacked a few weeks into the following season. After all, eighth, eighth and seventh would indicate that he'd found his level. 

I'm sure that you are right and it indicates more than anything the upped levels of scrutiny and therefore expectations that there are now. In the late 70's there weren't TV and radio channels pumping out wall-to-wall football with all the hours to fill and focus on individual results that inevitably increase pressure.

Saunders would have gone, Ferguson would definitely have gone. 

Perhaps also there's a greater impatience amongst fans. We live in a have-it-now society so maybe that plays a part? 


People always bring up Ferguson in these discussions, it's usually conveniently forgotten that he finished 2nd in his second season.

And I don't think history backs up the general assertion either. On average, since Tony Barton, our managers have lasted for 98 games. O'Neill, Lambert, Bruce and Smith have all exceeded that. Turner, McNeill, Taylor v2, Sherwood and Matteo all much less. Generally, the better a manager does, the longer he lasts in the job. There doesn't seem to be much difference between then and now in that regard.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on September 13, 2021, 10:32:04 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Monty on September 13, 2021, 10:26:15 AM
I'd be willing to bet money that we'll go back to a 4-3-3 or 4-2-2-2 against Everton. The 3-5-2 was a specific plan for Chelsea, and from Dean's comments he seems to be especially happy about the variety of tactical options we have.

we might have a variety but when something works as well as your saying it did on Saturday, 
you know all your heat maps and stuff proving it was an attacking imaginative formation only failing because they had Lakaku,
 then why on earth would you change it unless of coarse you've just talked a load of bollocks over the last two days
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: malckennedy on September 13, 2021, 10:35:08 AM
			

			

				Wasn’t Ellis intent on sacking Saunders in 1979 anyway. I’d always thought that was what the boardroom battle was about at that time and that because Ellis lost, Saunders survived.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: eamonn on September 13, 2021, 10:35:27 AM
			

			

				Will that mean Ings or Wats being dropped?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Monty on September 13, 2021, 10:39:15 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: john e on September 13, 2021, 10:32:04 AM
Quote from: Monty on September 13, 2021, 10:26:15 AM
I'd be willing to bet money that we'll go back to a 4-3-3 or 4-2-2-2 against Everton. The 3-5-2 was a specific plan for Chelsea, and from Dean's comments he seems to be especially happy about the variety of tactical options we have.

we might have a variety but when something works as well as your saying it did on Saturday, 
you know all your heat maps and stuff proving it was an attacking imaginative formation only failing because they had Lakaku,
 then why on earth would you change it unless of coarse you've just talked a load of bollocks over the last two days

Do you know how to talk to people without coming across like a really strange and angry person? As I said, it's horses for courses, you change tactics to try and beat different teams. Not that hard.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ger Regan on September 13, 2021, 10:39:34 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: john e on September 13, 2021, 10:32:04 AM
Quote from: Monty on September 13, 2021, 10:26:15 AM
I'd be willing to bet money that we'll go back to a 4-3-3 or 4-2-2-2 against Everton. The 3-5-2 was a specific plan for Chelsea, and from Dean's comments he seems to be especially happy about the variety of tactical options we have.

we might have a variety but when something works as well as your saying it did on Saturday, 
you know all your heat maps and stuff proving it was an attacking imaginative formation only failing because they had Lakaku,
 then why on earth would you change it unless of coarse you've just talked a load of bollocks over the last two days
Have you never heard of the phrase "horses for courses"?

Edit - beaten to it by Monty.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on September 13, 2021, 10:44:19 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: john e on September 13, 2021, 10:32:04 AM
Quote from: Monty on September 13, 2021, 10:26:15 AM
I'd be willing to bet money that we'll go back to a 4-3-3 or 4-2-2-2 against Everton. The 3-5-2 was a specific plan for Chelsea, and from Dean's comments he seems to be especially happy about the variety of tactical options we have.

we might have a variety but when something works as well as your saying it did on Saturday, 
you know all your heat maps and stuff proving it was an attacking imaginative formation only failing because they had Lakaku,
 then why on earth would you change it unless of coarse you've just talked a load of bollocks over the last two days

No need for that, in my arrogant opinion. I'm instinctively anti-five-at-the-back, but Monty's made a good case and we did look good for the most part.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on September 13, 2021, 10:49:47 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Monty on September 13, 2021, 10:39:15 AM
Quote from: john e on September 13, 2021, 10:32:04 AM
Quote from: Monty on September 13, 2021, 10:26:15 AM
I'd be willing to bet money that we'll go back to a 4-3-3 or 4-2-2-2 against Everton. The 3-5-2 was a specific plan for Chelsea, and from Dean's comments he seems to be especially happy about the variety of tactical options we have.

we might have a variety but when something works as well as your saying it did on Saturday, 
you know all your heat maps and stuff proving it was an attacking imaginative formation only failing because they had Lakaku,
 then why on earth would you change it unless of coarse you've just talked a load of bollocks over the last two days

Do you know how to talk to people without coming across like a really strange and angry person? As I said, it's horses for courses, you change tactics to try and beat different teams. Not that hard.

Sorry i'm not really having a go at you Monty
for what its worth your one of my favourite posters on here i always find your contribution interesting and educating (not trying to be being funny here its the truth)

my hobby horse (as Horse is the word at the moment) is the 5 man defence and how people dress it up as something that its not
so apologies again, but in fairness you are right i am a bit strange 



			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on September 13, 2021, 10:51:04 AM
			

			

				He's limited tactically Smith, can't change from a 4-3-3. Never tries anything else. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Monty on September 13, 2021, 10:51:34 AM
			

			

				Ha, I think we all are mate! Fair enough, just thought it seemed a bit 0-100 all of a sudden.

Anyway, yeah a lot of the time the three centre-backs is very defensive, but it's not always. It's all about how you go about it, and I thought we did it the right way the other day.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on September 13, 2021, 11:12:56 AM
			

			

				I just think the decent performance was because we played with a proper midfield 3, and it suited all of Luiz, McGinn and Ramey in a way that 4-2-3-1 doesn't. Also, the 5-3-2 absolutely didn't bring out the best in Ings at all, he was really poor. Surely a proper 4-3-3 would be the best of both worlds?

Martinez
Cash Konsa Mings Targett
McGinn/Buendia Ramsey Luiz
Buendia/Watkins Watkins/Ings Bailey

Lots of nice options there.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Monty on September 13, 2021, 11:20:13 AM
			

			

				Smith mentioned that he thought we'd have problems out wide with the 4-3-3, which a lot of teams have had against this Chelsea. As the position map shows, the two wide centre backs practically played in midfield, leading to the overcrowding that gave us our best chances. I agree that the 4-2-3-1 doesn't work at all (and I really worry about the 4-4-2 we might try for the same reason), but out of the two options that give us three in the middle I can see why we went with the 3-5-2 (and it was 3-5-2, the wing backs were closer to the the strikers than the last defender).

As for Ings, he's been at his best in as the second-striker in a front two for the past couple of seasons, so trying that makes some sense. 3-5-2 is also one of two systems (along with the diamond) that allows us to do that while also playing three midfielders, so you could argue that that is the best of both worlds.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on September 13, 2021, 11:20:16 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Drummond on September 13, 2021, 10:51:04 AM
He's limited tactically Smith, can't change from a 4-3-3. Never tries anything else. 

fair enough
but i spent the whole of the Euro tournament moaning about Southgates 5 at the back with all the attacking talent on the bench coming on in the 65/70 minute
i know people like to think we play it different but its not really is it,
 don't forget England were spectacularly successful with it and never lost a game but a lot of people me included still said it was the wrong way to play, i cant suddenly pretend i think its great now
so i although i think we played well on Saturday its not a formation i would want us to use going forward





			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: eamonn on September 13, 2021, 02:17:32 PM
			

			

				Who did Ings play upfront with at Southampton - Che Adams when he got a good run in the side, but before that? Our nemesis Shane Long was usually a sub too. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ads on September 13, 2021, 05:19:18 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: john e on September 13, 2021, 11:20:16 AM
Quote from: Drummond on September 13, 2021, 10:51:04 AM
He's limited tactically Smith, can't change from a 4-3-3. Never tries anything else. 

fair enough
but i spent the whole of the Euro tournament moaning about Southgates 5 at the back with all the attacking talent on the bench coming on in the 65/70 minute
i know people like to think we play it different but its not really is it,
 don't forget England were spectacularly successful with it and never lost a game but a lot of people me included still said it was the wrong way to play, i cant suddenly pretend i think its great now
so i although i think we played well on Saturday its not a formation i would want us to use going forward






We had more chances at goal, more shots on target and almost double the touches in the box using 352 and 343 on Saturday. It was nothing like Horseface's negative rubbish.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Monty on September 13, 2021, 05:39:38 PM
			

			

				Important to remember that football isn't netball. It's a dynamic game - you can have three 'centre backs', but there's a world of difference between sticking them on the 18 yard line and telling two of them to push up into midfield, releasing your midfielders to charge forward if, as the plan is meant to work, you win the ball. Won't work against everyone, but it was a very good idea. Shame about Lukaku.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: algy on September 13, 2021, 08:40:43 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Monty on September 13, 2021, 05:39:38 PM
Important to remember that football isn't netball. It's a dynamic game - you can have three 'centre backs', but there's a world of difference between sticking them on the 18 yard line and telling two of them to push up into midfield, releasing your midfielders to charge forward if, as the plan is meant to work, you win the ball. Won't work against everyone, but it was a very good idea. Shame about Lukaku.
Think the good thing now is that we have the option to do that, or something else. I think it's one of the positives to take from losing Joe whatshisface. Realistically if Joe was fit, he had to play. And much as he likes to think of himself as an 8, we had to play him on the left wing for him to be at his most effective, which in turn somewhat dictated the formation we played.

Obviously it's also helped that we now have more than 11 players who are good enough to play in a side in the top half of the table.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: cdbearsfan on September 13, 2021, 08:52:48 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Monty on September 13, 2021, 05:39:38 PM
Important to remember that football isn't netball. It's a dynamic game - you can have three 'centre backs', but there's a world of difference between sticking them on the 18 yard line and telling two of them to push up into midfield, releasing your midfielders to charge forward if, as the plan is meant to work, you win the ball. Won't work against everyone, but it was a very good idea. Shame about Lukaku.

It was a dreadful idea. Three centre halves playing against one forward and he still scores twice. Woeful. Let's never try that nonsense again.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: brontebilly on September 13, 2021, 08:54:03 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on September 13, 2021, 11:12:56 AM
I just think the decent performance was because we played with a proper midfield 3, and it suited all of Luiz, McGinn and Ramey in a way that 4-2-3-1 doesn't. Also, the 5-3-2 absolutely didn't bring out the best in Ings at all, he was really poor. Surely a proper 4-3-3 would be the best of both worlds?

Martinez
Cash Konsa Mings Targett
McGinn/Buendia Ramsey Luiz
Buendia/Watkins Watkins/Ings Bailey

Lots of nice options there.

Watkins/Ings won't work in a 433 and shoving Watkins to the wing takes away a lot of his best attributes. Is Buendia really a wide man or off the striker/10 ? The benefit of the three in midfield that it should give a bit more licence to the likes of Buendia/Traore/Bailey/AEG to stay further forward. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on September 13, 2021, 09:12:52 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: brontebilly on September 13, 2021, 08:54:03 PM
Quote from: Risso on September 13, 2021, 11:12:56 AM
I just think the decent performance was because we played with a proper midfield 3, and it suited all of Luiz, McGinn and Ramey in a way that 4-2-3-1 doesn't. Also, the 5-3-2 absolutely didn't bring out the best in Ings at all, he was really poor. Surely a proper 4-3-3 would be the best of both worlds?

Martinez
Cash Konsa Mings Targett
McGinn/Buendia Ramsey Luiz
Buendia/Watkins Watkins/Ings Bailey

Lots of nice options there.

Watkins/Ings won't work in a 433 and shoving Watkins to the wing takes away a lot of his best attributes. Is Buendia really a wide man or off the striker/10 ? The benefit of the three in midfield that it should give a bit more licence to the likes of Buendia/Traore/Bailey/AEG to stay further forward. 

4-3-3 doesn't really involve out and out wingers if played properly, like Liverpool do. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Dante Lavelli on September 13, 2021, 09:15:23 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on September 13, 2021, 11:12:56 AM
I just think the decent performance was because we played with a proper midfield 3, and it suited all of Luiz, McGinn and Ramey in a way that 4-2-3-1 doesn't. Also, the 5-3-2 absolutely didn't bring out the best in Ings at all, he was really poor. Surely a proper 4-3-3 would be the best of both worlds?

Martinez
Cash Konsa Mings Targett
McGinn/Buendia Ramsey Luiz
Buendia/Watkins Watkins/Ings Bailey

Lots of nice options there.

I’m not against 3 at the back - generally - but agree with Risso that it doesn’t naturally suit us.  IMO the three in midfield were the catalyst for a decent performance.  The athleticism of the three often created overloads but too frequently Mings marauding forward was the beneficiary of the space whereas in a 433 you’d hope Bailey/Traore would be the guys to benefit.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Flin5tone on September 13, 2021, 10:15:47 PM
			

			

				Everton looked frightening tonight and Rafa really has them playing well. We need to be on the ball Saturday and any stupid mistakes will be punished. If we lose this one it's a really bad start to the season so it's becoming a must win, already. let's hope we're up to the challenge . 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Monty on September 14, 2021, 12:40:46 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on September 13, 2021, 08:52:48 PM
Quote from: Monty on September 13, 2021, 05:39:38 PM
Important to remember that football isn't netball. It's a dynamic game - you can have three 'centre backs', but there's a world of difference between sticking them on the 18 yard line and telling two of them to push up into midfield, releasing your midfielders to charge forward if, as the plan is meant to work, you win the ball. Won't work against everyone, but it was a very good idea. Shame about Lukaku.

It was a dreadful idea. Three centre halves playing against one forward and he still scores twice. Woeful. Let's never try that nonsense again.

Too simplistic. Not about man matchups, this isn't the pub leagues. Lukaku got away the first time because they beat our press and scored his second once we'd actually changed formation. It wasn't '5 at the back' like in the 80s and 90s with Matthias Sammer standing on the penalty spot, hacking the ball grimly into the stands. At times the 'formation' was more like 1-5-4. It's all about intent, what you make of the situation. You can argue a different system would've been better, but this anti 3 cbs thing gets just a little blindly ideological at times, and not really based on evidence.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: cdbearsfan on September 14, 2021, 01:19:23 AM
			

			

				You're somewhat condescending to anyone who opposes five at the back lately, mate. "Blindly ideological", indeed. I watched the game. I saw our three centre halves fail to deal with Lukaku, and us wasting a position on the pitch that could have been used by a player who might have created or scored a goal. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Monty on September 14, 2021, 01:51:49 AM
			

			

				Ah, well, I'm sorry mate, don't mean to be (but who does I guess!). I suppose it's a reaction to something, probably the feeling that I try to make some point and I don't find it argued against, but just kind of ignored with something flippant like 'play a proper formation' or some such, and it can get a bit wearing.

It's not like I'm a fanatical partisan of the 3 CBs thing. Usually, like with England, it is either needlessly defensive or conceding inferiority. However, given that someone as madly attacking as Bielsa is committed to a version of it, it shows that the system isn't just a bus-parking exercise, right? And if our wide CBs average position 1st half was literally central midfield - an area we created all our chances from by dominating in numbers and winning the ball high up - it doesn't suggest to me that the system was entirely meritless.

Like I say, not a partisan. I just think it's true that football is fast and chaotic, and the difference between defence and attack isn't one of position all the time. To attack with the ball you have to win it, and I liked our plan for winning it in dangerous areas. I don't think these points are daft, and I'd quite like it if someone replying to me actually replied to them, rather than asserting something off to the side without really addressing them. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Flin5tone on September 14, 2021, 02:09:45 AM
			

			

				If we get beat by Everton and then head into the Man Utd game with only a single win in Five games I think it's going to be Dean's biggest challenge so far to overcome this dreadful start to the season.it really does feel like a Must Win with the tough fixtures we have coming up. Watford and Brentford are games we desperately needed to take maximum points from .


			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Percy McCarthy on September 14, 2021, 03:09:52 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: john e on September 13, 2021, 10:49:47 AM
Quote from: Monty on September 13, 2021, 10:39:15 AM
Quote from: john e on September 13, 2021, 10:32:04 AM
Quote from: Monty on September 13, 2021, 10:26:15 AM
I'd be willing to bet money that we'll go back to a 4-3-3 or 4-2-2-2 against Everton. The 3-5-2 was a specific plan for Chelsea, and from Dean's comments he seems to be especially happy about the variety of tactical options we have.

we might have a variety but when something works as well as your saying it did on Saturday, 
you know all your heat maps and stuff proving it was an attacking imaginative formation only failing because they had Lakaku,
 then why on earth would you change it unless of coarse you've just talked a load of bollocks over the last two days

Do you know how to talk to people without coming across like a really strange and angry person? As I said, it's horses for courses, you change tactics to try and beat different teams. Not that hard.

Sorry i'm not really having a go at you Monty
for what its worth your one of my favourite posters on here i always find your contribution interesting and educating (not trying to be being funny here its the truth)

my hobby horse (as Horse is the word at the moment) is the 5 man defence and how people dress it up as something that its not
so apologies again, but in fairness you are right i am a bit strange

I haven’t read much criticism from you of Chelsea doing it.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ozzjim on September 14, 2021, 08:07:51 AM
			

			

				3-4-3 and 3-5-2 have worked for several teams, and there were signs of promise in it the other night, but for me we are better suited to 4-3-3. The key will be giving Bert or Bailey free reign to drift in behind Ollie.

I do think though you look at how quickly, on a very small summer budget, Benitez has got Everton firing, and it shows you what the top managers can do. For me Smith is short of that level. Tuchel made changes at half time that contained us and we looked half as threatening. Benitez changed shape last night and changed the game from 1-0 down. The top managers have ways to change the course of games that in don't have confidence in Smith doing. Lose at the weekend, the Spurs game becomes a pretty big one very early in the season. Get to 9-10  games in on 5-6 points we are in a relegation battle. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on September 14, 2021, 08:13:10 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: ozzjim on September 14, 2021, 08:07:51 AM
3-4-3 and 3-5-2 have worked for several teams, and there were signs of promise in it the other night, but for me we are better suited to 4-3-3. The key will be giving Bert or Bailey free reign to drift in behind Ollie.

I do think though you look at how quickly, on a very small summer budget, Benitez has got Everton firing, and it shows you what the top managers can do. For me Smith is short of that level. Tuchel made changes at half time that contained us and we looked half as threatening. Benitez changed shape last night and changed the game from 1-0 down. The top managers have ways to change the course of games that in don't have confidence in Smith doing. Lose at the weekend, the Spurs game becomes a pretty big one very early in the season. Get to 9-10  games in on 5-6 points we are in a relegation battle. 

Benitez is a fair comparison, and I'd hate to have him here. Tuchel isn't, because the squad he has to choose from is nothing like we'll ever have.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on September 14, 2021, 08:25:21 AM
			

			

				I haven't watched it yet, but there's an interview with him here. Graham Hunter is good normally.
https://grahamhunter.tv/
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ozzjim on September 14, 2021, 08:43:03 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on September 14, 2021, 08:13:10 AM
Quote from: ozzjim on September 14, 2021, 08:07:51 AM
3-4-3 and 3-5-2 have worked for several teams, and there were signs of promise in it the other night, but for me we are better suited to 4-3-3. The key will be giving Bert or Bailey free reign to drift in behind Ollie.

I do think though you look at how quickly, on a very small summer budget, Benitez has got Everton firing, and it shows you what the top managers can do. For me Smith is short of that level. Tuchel made changes at half time that contained us and we looked half as threatening. Benitez changed shape last night and changed the game from 1-0 down. The top managers have ways to change the course of games that in don't have confidence in Smith doing. Lose at the weekend, the Spurs game becomes a pretty big one very early in the season. Get to 9-10  games in on 5-6 points we are in a relegation battle. 

Benitez is a fair comparison, and I'd hate to have him here. Tuchel isn't, because the squad he has to choose from is nothing like we'll ever have.

It will be interesting to see where we finish in comparison to Everton this season. They scaled back the spending a lot this summer and bought in a very tactically astute manager.

Agreed on the squad with Chelsea, it was more the tactical awareness with Tuchel. A fair few times since promotion Smith has got the first half right, only to be out manoeuvred in game by his opposite number. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: sickbeggar on September 14, 2021, 09:13:42 AM
			

			

				I'm with Monty. The 1st half against Chelsea was the best we've played this season and a lot of last as well. I'm not expecting Smith to stick with it, though I did have a thought yesterday - Why would ManU let Axel come to us as basically cover? Surely you'd want him playing regularly at this stage of his career. Obviously the argument against that is we only have Hause to cover with 3 at the back.


Anyway, looking at Everton last night, they're not going to be a push over. I just hope he doesn't go back to 4-2-3-1 or any variant of the ratboy formation because he really needs a result against this lot or the table will start to look a bit worrying with ManU and Spurs coming up.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Monty on September 14, 2021, 09:41:48 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: sickbeggar on September 14, 2021, 09:13:42 AM
I'm with Monty.

Ah bollocks.

Seriously though, I think the formation we'll mostly see as a first choice is the 4-4-2 and we'll see how that works out.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: sickbeggar on September 14, 2021, 09:56:54 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Monty on September 14, 2021, 09:41:48 AM
Quote from: sickbeggar on September 14, 2021, 09:13:42 AM
I'm with Monty.

Ah bollocks.

Seriously though, I think the formation we'll mostly see as a first choice is the 4-4-2 and we'll see how that works out.

Yeah, not convinced it suits Ings though.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Monty on September 14, 2021, 10:09:19 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: sickbeggar on September 14, 2021, 09:56:54 AM
Quote from: Monty on September 14, 2021, 09:41:48 AM
Quote from: sickbeggar on September 14, 2021, 09:13:42 AM
I'm with Monty.

Ah bollocks.

Seriously though, I think the formation we'll mostly see as a first choice is the 4-4-2 and we'll see how that works out.

Yeah, not convinced it suits Ings though.

It's exactly what he played last season with Southampton. My problem is it doesn't suit McGinn.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: London Villan on September 14, 2021, 10:10:37 AM
			

			

				Or Beundia...
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: sickbeggar on September 14, 2021, 10:19:22 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Monty on September 14, 2021, 10:09:19 AM
Quote from: sickbeggar on September 14, 2021, 09:56:54 AM
Quote from: Monty on September 14, 2021, 09:41:48 AM
Quote from: sickbeggar on September 14, 2021, 09:13:42 AM
I'm with Monty.

Ah bollocks.

Seriously though, I think the formation we'll mostly see as a first choice is the 4-4-2 and we'll see how that works out.

Yeah, not convinced it suits Ings though.

It's exactly what he played last season with Southampton. My problem is it doesn't suit McGinn.


not with Watkins he didn't.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on September 14, 2021, 10:21:45 AM
			

			

				I do think we can get bogged down with formations
For me it’s about players
How many defensive players do you want on the pitch how many forwards

As Monty is arguing you can play with three central defenders and still play attacking football like we did on Saturday in the first half
But you are still using extra defenders in an attacking position which is fine if that’s what you want
I would prefer forward players playing in a Attacking position 

Who is going to be more useful in The oppositions half 
one of Mings Tuanzebe Konsa or Bailey Traore Buendia 
It’s pretty obvious it’s it’s not even debatable that one is more positive than the other and that’s all I’m saying I’d rather be more positive

That doesn’t mean to say it can’t work any other way
Of course it can but let’s not pretend that one is just as positive as the other because it is not
More players at the back would suggest that you shore up the defence
Which is fine Southgate does it all the time and concedes very few
So for me it’s not about formations but more about The type of players used

I want us to be more positive against Everton so that means not starting with three central defenders
I’m not saying we can’t play positive football with three CD’s 
But I’d simply prefer more forward players on the pitch

People will say it’s horses for courses
Well we need to change the horses or the courses as we’ve picked up one win in 4 games so far, And only one of them have been a top side
With all our attacking options now we either go for it or we get left behind





			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Monty on September 14, 2021, 10:25:44 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: sickbeggar on September 14, 2021, 10:19:22 AM
Quote from: Monty on September 14, 2021, 10:09:19 AM
Quote from: sickbeggar on September 14, 2021, 09:56:54 AM
Quote from: Monty on September 14, 2021, 09:41:48 AM
Quote from: sickbeggar on September 14, 2021, 09:13:42 AM
I'm with Monty.

Ah bollocks.

Seriously though, I think the formation we'll mostly see as a first choice is the 4-4-2 and we'll see how that works out.

Yeah, not convinced it suits Ings though.

It's exactly what he played last season with Southampton. My problem is it doesn't suit McGinn.


not with Watkins he didn't.

Che Adams is basically a poor man's Ollie Watkins. The logic in repeating the system is pretty tight.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ozzjim on September 14, 2021, 10:30:13 AM
			

			

				John, I think that's why some play a technically gifted full back or midfielder in the back 3 at times, to allow you to not lose the attacking edge of having a hoofing defender there. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Allan C on September 14, 2021, 11:38:16 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: ozzjim on September 14, 2021, 08:07:51 AM
3-4-3 and 3-5-2 have worked for several teams, and there were signs of promise in it the other night, but for me we are better suited to 4-3-3. The key will be giving Bert or Bailey free reign to drift in behind Ollie.

I do think though you look at how quickly, on a very small summer budget, Benitez has got Everton firing, and it shows you what the top managers can do. For me Smith is short of that level. Tuchel made changes at half time that contained us and we looked half as threatening. Benitez changed shape last night and changed the game from 1-0 down. The top managers have ways to change the course of games that in don't have confidence in Smith doing. Lose at the weekend, the Spurs game becomes a pretty big one very early in the season. Get to 9-10  games in on 5-6 points we are in a relegation battle.
Totally unfair to compare with Tuchel with the vast talented squad he has at Chelsea. I’m not even sure it’s a fair comparison with Benitez given his vast worldwide experience 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: brontebilly on September 14, 2021, 11:41:34 AM
			

			

				Everton will be a good test of where we are at this season. They are more settled than us and Benitez has got rid of their show ponies and brought in the likes of Townsend and Gray instead. But player for player very few of their team would make ours. Their bench looks very weak too. We won't need 3 x CBs and the likes of Allan and Docoure will be a good physical test for our midfielders. Tough call but I'd probably drop Ings for it and play 2 of Traore, Bailey or AEG. Can always bring Ings in to change things.


			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Rigadon on September 14, 2021, 11:42:12 AM
			

			

				Allan C - I know what you mean, but if Dean Smith isn't able to compete (and therefore to be compared with) the other managers in the league, then he shouldn't be managing in it.  On those grounds I think it's fair to compare. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on September 14, 2021, 12:15:13 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Allan C on September 14, 2021, 11:38:16 AM
Quote from: ozzjim on September 14, 2021, 08:07:51 AM
3-4-3 and 3-5-2 have worked for several teams, and there were signs of promise in it the other night, but for me we are better suited to 4-3-3. The key will be giving Bert or Bailey free reign to drift in behind Ollie.

I do think though you look at how quickly, on a very small summer budget, Benitez has got Everton firing, and it shows you what the top managers can do. For me Smith is short of that level. Tuchel made changes at half time that contained us and we looked half as threatening. Benitez changed shape last night and changed the game from 1-0 down. The top managers have ways to change the course of games that in don't have confidence in Smith doing. Lose at the weekend, the Spurs game becomes a pretty big one very early in the season. Get to 9-10  games in on 5-6 points we are in a relegation battle.
Totally unfair to compare with Tuchel with the vast talented squad he has at Chelsea. I’m not even sure it’s a fair comparison with Benitez given his vast worldwide experience 

If Benitez managed Villa we'd be arguing that he'd just taken over from Ancelotti, needed his own players and three years to judge him, that he'd only been allowed to bring in cheap signings like Gray and Townsend etc etc!
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on September 14, 2021, 12:20:29 PM
			

			

				Benitez is a manager we could get. Tuchel isn't.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Monty on September 14, 2021, 12:22:41 PM
			

			

				Benitez is a fine manager I respect a lot who I don't want us to hire unless we're in a dark spot.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on September 14, 2021, 12:26:49 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Monty on September 14, 2021, 12:22:41 PM
Benitez is a fine manager I respect a lot who I don't want us to hire unless we're in a dark spot.

I'd even look elsewhere in a dark spot. He's an effective manager, but I hate the way his teams play.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Big Ming on September 14, 2021, 12:35:04 PM
			

			

				Having failed to turn up against Watford and also failed to gain 3 points at home against Brentford, Deano is going to be getting some serious stick if we wake up next Sunday morning still on 4 points.

The Fat Spanish Waiter made a couple of cheap ho-hum signings and already has Everton at the races.

I fear there may be trouble ahead.......
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: CT on September 14, 2021, 12:44:34 PM
			

			

				Plus we lost to Leyton Orient on the Big Match Revisited last night. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: GordonCowansisthegreatest on September 14, 2021, 12:54:13 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Big Ming on September 14, 2021, 12:35:04 PM
Having failed to turn up against Watford and also failed to gain 3 points at home against Brentford, Deano is going to be getting some serious stick if we wake up next Sunday morning still on 4 points.

The Fat Spanish Waiter made a couple of cheap ho-hum signings and already has Everton at the races.

I fear there may be trouble ahead.......
Says he, completely ignoring the fact that both sides had about 6 weeks with the full squad training/preparing for these games and we still haven't had a full squad available!
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ozzjim on September 14, 2021, 01:00:44 PM
			

			

				Teams have to cope though. Nothing about the first 60 mins against Watford can be defended. Likewise playing Young in centre mid against Brentford.

Re comparing Smith to others... We play those teams in this league. I accept Tuchel and Chelsea are in another league, but it was an illustration of where Smith struggles for me. Benitez is just a very good manager and the level we should aspire to having at the club. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on September 14, 2021, 01:04:58 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: CT on September 14, 2021, 12:44:34 PM
Plus we lost to Leyton Orient on the Big Match Revisited last night. 

Haha! Deano has done the heavy lifting (sorry, Chico) over the last 3 seasons, now he needs to do the fine tuning. It's a big season for him but if the performance on Saturday is anything to go by he's on the right track.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Demitri_C on September 14, 2021, 01:13:57 PM
			

			

				It stills too early to talk about the sack but i certainly would not be considering offering him a new contract. His performance was dreadful while grealish was injured and our points return so far is poor.

I want to see improvement on  Saturday and 3 points 

I do have reservations whether he can take us to europe bug doesnt warrant the sack yet.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on September 14, 2021, 01:14:54 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: GordonCowansisthegreatest on September 14, 2021, 12:54:13 PM
Quote from: Big Ming on September 14, 2021, 12:35:04 PM
Having failed to turn up against Watford and also failed to gain 3 points at home against Brentford, Deano is going to be getting some serious stick if we wake up next Sunday morning still on 4 points.

The Fat Spanish Waiter made a couple of cheap ho-hum signings and already has Everton at the races.

I fear there may be trouble ahead.......
Says he, completely ignoring the fact that both sides had about 6 weeks with the full squad training/preparing for these games and we still haven't had a full squad available!

Watford didn't have anything like a full squad.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on September 14, 2021, 01:28:37 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: ozzjim on September 14, 2021, 01:00:44 PM
Teams have to cope though. Nothing about the first 60 mins against Watford can be defended. Likewise playing Young in centre mid against Brentford.

No, you're right. Teams should cope without half their first choice players. The manager should be able to coach those second choice players to be as good as the best they have.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: GordonCowansisthegreatest on September 14, 2021, 02:08:45 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on September 14, 2021, 01:14:54 PM
Quote from: GordonCowansisthegreatest on September 14, 2021, 12:54:13 PM
Quote from: Big Ming on September 14, 2021, 12:35:04 PM
Having failed to turn up against Watford and also failed to gain 3 points at home against Brentford, Deano is going to be getting some serious stick if we wake up next Sunday morning still on 4 points.

The Fat Spanish Waiter made a couple of cheap ho-hum signings and already has Everton at the races.

I fear there may be trouble ahead.......
Says he, completely ignoring the fact that both sides had about 6 weeks with the full squad training/preparing for these games and we still haven't had a full squad available!

Watford didn't have anything like a full squad.
But still had 6 weeks to prepare!
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on September 14, 2021, 02:56:16 PM
			

			

				At some point the excuses will run out.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Hookeysmith on September 14, 2021, 03:11:36 PM
			

			

				I think Ings has warranted being dropped on Saturday. His contribution against Chelsea was shocking, irrespective of what formation we played. You do not need formational shape to contribute to running, tackling and genuinely forcing your own involvement in the game.

He needs to do more than just score goals
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on September 14, 2021, 03:16:12 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: ChicagoLion on September 14, 2021, 02:56:16 PM
At some point the excuses will run out.

And people will move on to the next person to moan about. It was ever thus.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on September 14, 2021, 03:33:04 PM
			

			

				Some managers (Bruce) deserve all the stick they get. A manager who hits every target he's given doesn't.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Chris Smith on September 14, 2021, 03:34:12 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: ChicagoLion on September 14, 2021, 02:56:16 PM
At some point the excuses will run out.

But people thinking that they always know best will be around for ever.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: dave.woodhall on September 14, 2021, 03:56:35 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: ChicagoLion on September 14, 2021, 02:56:16 PM
At some point the excuses will run out.

But saying he can't take us to the next level will never get old. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Monty on September 14, 2021, 04:07:36 PM
			

			

				Some people really do want to be proved right more than anything else.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on September 14, 2021, 04:10:56 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on September 14, 2021, 03:33:04 PM
Some managers (Bruce) deserve all the stick they get. A manager who hits every target he's given doesn't.

How do you know what his targets have been? I don't recall Purslow saying he wanted to stay up by the skin of our teeth first season back, in fact I distinctly remember him saying the exact opposite.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: tomd2103 on September 14, 2021, 04:16:38 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Demitri_C on September 14, 2021, 01:13:57 PM
It stills too early to talk about the sack but i certainly would not be considering offering him a new contract. His performance was dreadful while grealish was injured and our points return so far is poor.

I want to see improvement on  Saturday and 3 points 

I do have reservations whether he can take us to europe bug doesnt warrant the sack yet.

I do think the goalposts of expectation have shifted somewhat this season after the sale of you know who.  Pre-season and the first few weeks of the season have been chaotic, so I do think there has to be some recognition of that.  

Given what has happened, I think if we are pushing the top ten with a team that looks well organised and capable of pushing on with a few additions, then it will have been target achieved this season. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on September 14, 2021, 04:21:29 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on September 14, 2021, 04:10:56 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on September 14, 2021, 03:33:04 PM
Some managers (Bruce) deserve all the stick they get. A manager who hits every target he's given doesn't.

How do you know what his targets have been? I don't recall Purslow saying he wanted to stay up by the skin of our teeth first season back, in fact I distinctly remember him saying the exact opposite.

I can't know for sure, but I suspect he'll be out of a job as soon as he stops hitting them.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Chris Smith on September 14, 2021, 04:24:16 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on September 14, 2021, 04:10:56 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on September 14, 2021, 03:33:04 PM
Some managers (Bruce) deserve all the stick they get. A manager who hits every target he's given doesn't.

How do you know what his targets have been? I don't recall Purslow saying he wanted to stay up by the skin of our teeth first season back, in fact I distinctly remember him saying the exact opposite.

Purslow and Smith both made the point that promotion in the first season was ahead of schedule so I doubt there has been any internal pressure up to now. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on September 14, 2021, 04:45:03 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Demitri_C on September 14, 2021, 01:13:57 PM
It stills too early to talk about the sack but i certainly would not be considering offering him a new contract. His performance was dreadful while grealish was injured and our points return so far is poor.

Dean's got a contract until 2023 so he's more than happy. If things go well this season I can see him getting a contract extension, if they don't, who knows, maybe he'll be replaced. After building up his squad he's now very much in a privileged position to focus purely on the football. It's a massive season for him and more importantly, us. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Allan C on September 14, 2021, 04:53:57 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Rigadon on September 14, 2021, 11:42:12 AM
Allan C - I know what you mean, but if Dean Smith isn't able to compete (and therefore to be compared with) the other managers in the league, then he shouldn't be managing in it.  On those grounds I think it's fair to compare.
Its an interesting debate. Look every manager had to start somewhere and that includes Pep, Benitez even Allardyce and Dyche and the current maestro Potter. Only time will tell how Smith develops but the signs are good so far given where we were when he took over. I was in the “get rid” camp at the end of our first season back up but I saw enough improvement last season to give him the time to develop and despite the Chelsea defeat (never a 3-0) I think we and he are improving.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: DB on September 14, 2021, 04:59:46 PM
			

			

				He has improved our standing throughout his tenure. Question is,can he do it again and again until we are competing for trophies regularly.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Allan C on September 14, 2021, 05:12:36 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: DB on September 14, 2021, 04:59:46 PM
He has improved our standing throughout his tenure. Question is,can he do it again and again until we are competing for trophies regularly.
And that for me is the whole point. We keep improving and the squad keeps getting better. I’d rather we kept improving this way and be in a strong position to be challenging for the top honours each season. That’s where I think we’re heading 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Clampy on September 14, 2021, 05:35:11 PM
			

			

				We obviously for many reasons didn't have the best pre-season and it's all been a bit stop start team wise going into the season. Getting behind the bloke wouldn't go amiss.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: chrisw1 on September 14, 2021, 07:10:24 PM
			

			

				There a podacast interview with him, done during the internation break.

Part one is out now.  There's links in this tweet, but you'll find it if you just search The Big Interview with Graham Hunter.   

https://twitter.com/BumperGraham/status/1437673437556785153

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ian. on September 14, 2021, 07:36:28 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Clampy on September 14, 2021, 05:35:11 PM
We obviously for many reasons didn't have the best pre-season and it's all been a bit stop start team wise going into the season. Getting behind the bloke wouldn't go amiss.

Absolutely this. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SamTheMouse on September 14, 2021, 07:46:46 PM
			

			

				Yeah, Dean has done everything that's been asked of him so far. He's got my support. If he had the sort of squad Guardiola has, I imagine he'd be near the top of the table too.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Beard82 on September 14, 2021, 08:34:30 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on September 14, 2021, 04:21:29 PM
Quote from: Risso on September 14, 2021, 04:10:56 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on September 14, 2021, 03:33:04 PM
Some managers (Bruce) deserve all the stick they get. A manager who hits every target he's given doesn't.

How do you know what his targets have been? I don't recall Purslow saying he wanted to stay up by the skin of our teeth first season back, in fact I distinctly remember him saying the exact opposite.

I can't know for sure, but I suspect he'll be out of a job as soon as he stops hitting them.
Think he would be gone as soon as they think this is the case.  Think hes doing great - still learning but hes had a tough start this season.  End of the day the circus was because of the 100m buy out clause and he didnt negotate that 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on September 14, 2021, 09:11:11 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Beard82 on September 14, 2021, 08:34:30 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on September 14, 2021, 04:21:29 PM
Quote from: Risso on September 14, 2021, 04:10:56 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on September 14, 2021, 03:33:04 PM
Some managers (Bruce) deserve all the stick they get. A manager who hits every target he's given doesn't.

How do you know what his targets have been? I don't recall Purslow saying he wanted to stay up by the skin of our teeth first season back, in fact I distinctly remember him saying the exact opposite.

I can't know for sure, but I suspect he'll be out of a job as soon as he stops hitting them.
Think he would be gone as soon as they think this is the case.  Think hes doing great - still learning but hes had a tough start this season.  End of the day the circus was because of the 100m buy out clause and he didnt negotate that 

I think you'll find that he identifies all the signings, negotiates the contracts and chairs the balti pie committee!
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Monty on September 14, 2021, 09:36:31 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on September 14, 2021, 09:11:11 PM
Quote from: Beard82 on September 14, 2021, 08:34:30 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on September 14, 2021, 04:21:29 PM
Quote from: Risso on September 14, 2021, 04:10:56 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on September 14, 2021, 03:33:04 PM
Some managers (Bruce) deserve all the stick they get. A manager who hits every target he's given doesn't.

How do you know what his targets have been? I don't recall Purslow saying he wanted to stay up by the skin of our teeth first season back, in fact I distinctly remember him saying the exact opposite.

I can't know for sure, but I suspect he'll be out of a job as soon as he stops hitting them.
Think he would be gone as soon as they think this is the case.  Think hes doing great - still learning but hes had a tough start this season.  End of the day the circus was because of the 100m buy out clause and he didnt negotate that 

I think you'll find that he identifies all the signings, negotiates the contracts and chairs the balti pie committee!

I knew something was...well, not fishy, but you know what I mean.

I think people underestimating the value of having superduperclub money with which to build your squad need to remember that last year's runners-up were, and are currently, coached by Ole Gunnar Solskjaer.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on September 14, 2021, 09:38:22 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Monty on September 14, 2021, 09:36:31 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on September 14, 2021, 09:11:11 PM
Quote from: Beard82 on September 14, 2021, 08:34:30 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on September 14, 2021, 04:21:29 PM
Quote from: Risso on September 14, 2021, 04:10:56 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on September 14, 2021, 03:33:04 PM
Some managers (Bruce) deserve all the stick they get. A manager who hits every target he's given doesn't.

How do you know what his targets have been? I don't recall Purslow saying he wanted to stay up by the skin of our teeth first season back, in fact I distinctly remember him saying the exact opposite.

I can't know for sure, but I suspect he'll be out of a job as soon as he stops hitting them.
Think he would be gone as soon as they think this is the case.  Think hes doing great - still learning but hes had a tough start this season.  End of the day the circus was because of the 100m buy out clause and he didnt negotate that 

I think you'll find that he identifies all the signings, negotiates the contracts and chairs the balti pie committee!

I knew something was...well, not fishy, but you know what I mean.

I think people underestimating the value of having superduperclub money with which to build your squad need to remember that last year's runners-up were, and are currently, coached by Ole Gunnar Solskjaer.


They're still unFergusoning themselves.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on September 14, 2021, 09:49:59 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: chrisw1 on September 14, 2021, 07:10:24 PM
There a podacast interview with him, done during the internation break.

Part one is out now.  There's links in this tweet, but you'll find it if you just search The Big Interview with Graham Hunter.   

https://twitter.com/BumperGraham/status/1437673437556785153



This is a great listen. He rarely plays the Villa-fan card in traditional media so it's good to hear him talking about Sid/Shaw/Mortimer etc.

Edit: he also talks about the Man City player.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Monty on September 14, 2021, 09:57:52 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on September 14, 2021, 09:49:59 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on September 14, 2021, 07:10:24 PM
There a podacast interview with him, done during the internation break.

Part one is out now.  There's links in this tweet, but you'll find it if you just search The Big Interview with Graham Hunter.   

https://twitter.com/BumperGraham/status/1437673437556785153



This is a great listen. He rarely plays the Villa-fan card in traditional media so it's good to hear him talking about Sid/Shaw/Mortimer etc.

Edit: he also talks about the Man City player.

Thanks for the Content Warning.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on September 14, 2021, 10:33:50 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: ozzjim on September 14, 2021, 10:30:13 AM
John, I think that's why some play a technically gifted full back or midfielder in the back 3 at times, to allow you to not lose the attacking edge of having a hoofing defender there. 

I'm fairly sure Luiz played a few times for Girona in his season there in a back 3 so that may be worth considering especially if we finally sign a DM in January.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on September 15, 2021, 07:08:24 AM
			

			

				What I do not understand is why after the unsettled start to the season we then add further disruption to the team by going to the European Champions with a completely different defensive system.


			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ian. on September 15, 2021, 07:21:16 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: ChicagoLion on September 15, 2021, 07:08:24 AM
What I do not understand is why after the unsettled start to the season we then add further disruption to the team by going to the European Champions with a completely different defensive system.



Well funny enough, it’s seems the general consensus on here, more have been very positive about this formation than not. I must admit I’m not a fan, but if we can play like that and avoid the mistakes it looked a good system.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Nev on September 15, 2021, 07:35:51 AM
			

			

				Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. He's long been accused of intransigence, yet gets criticised when he changes things.

For some being proved right about Smith appears to take precedence over the progress of the team and it absolutely baffles me. Had he done a "Bruce" and went into the match with that formation with the intention to defend and "nick one" then I would be joining in with the criticism but he didn't. It was all but a hiding to nothing given the disparity in resources, but at least we tried and that is all I ask for. The supporters have come out of the match relatively optimistic, I'd like to think the players and the staff have as well.

I'll reserve any criticism for when I believe it's warranted, not because of any doubts I have about the managers ability.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on September 15, 2021, 08:15:47 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Nev on September 15, 2021, 07:35:51 AM
Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. He's long been accused of intransigence, yet gets criticised when he changes things.
For some being proved right about Smith appears to take precedence over the progress of the team and it absolutely baffles me. Had he done a "Bruce" and went into the match with that formation with the intention to defend and "nick one" then I would be joining in with the criticism but he didn't. It was all but a hiding to nothing given the disparity in resources, but at least we tried and that is all I ask for. The supporters have come out of the match relatively optimistic, I'd like to think the players and the staff have as well.

I'll reserve any criticism for when I believe it's warranted, not because of any doubts I have about the managers ability.

Good post Nev. Nail on head re bold bit also.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Clampy on September 15, 2021, 08:33:20 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: ChicagoLion on September 15, 2021, 07:08:24 AM
What I do not understand is why after the unsettled start to the season we then add further disruption to the team by going to the European Champions with a completely different defensive system.




I lost count of how many times you whinged last season (or the season before, the posts all seem to blend) that we stuck to the same formation. You seem hard to please. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: mr underhill on September 15, 2021, 08:43:58 AM
			

			

				he'll be judged as every other manager is on results and it's not unreasonable that he will be under severe pressure if we don't get  any in the next three games. Our recent record against Everton is good but Rafa has got them playing well and they won't be easy to beat.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on September 15, 2021, 09:16:47 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: ChicagoLion on September 15, 2021, 07:08:24 AM
What I do not understand is why after the unsettled start to the season we then add further disruption to the team by going to the European Champions with a completely different defensive system.

I wouldn't worry, I'm not sure understanding it would make any difference. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: hipkiss92 on September 15, 2021, 10:53:55 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: ozzjim on September 14, 2021, 08:07:51 AM
3-4-3 and 3-5-2 have worked for several teams, and there were signs of promise in it the other night, but for me we are better suited to 4-3-3. The key will be giving Bert or Bailey free reign to drift in behind Ollie.

I do think though you look at how quickly, on a very small summer budget, Benitez has got Everton firing, and it shows you what the top managers can do. For me Smith is short of that level. Tuchel made changes at half time that contained us and we looked half as threatening. Benitez changed shape last night and changed the game from 1-0 down. The top managers have ways to change the course of games that in don't have confidence in Smith doing. Lose at the weekend, the Spurs game becomes a pretty big one very early in the season. Get to 9-10  games in on 5-6 points we are in a relegation battle. 

Not sure bring on the UEFA Player of the Year is a tactical stretch that other managers wouldn't have thought of.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: OCD on September 15, 2021, 11:29:57 AM
			

			

				Saul was having an awful debut too, it was pretty easy to call that one. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: eamonn on September 15, 2021, 11:44:57 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: OCD on September 15, 2021, 11:29:57 AM
Saul was having an awful debut too, it was pretty easy to call that one. 

It was relatively easy to call that he would be replaced by Jorginho at half time too. Not sure what we could have done to negate that, mind.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on September 15, 2021, 11:50:04 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: ChicagoLion on September 15, 2021, 07:08:24 AM
What I do not understand is why after the unsettled start to the season we then add further disruption to the team by going to the European Champions with a completely different defensive system.

Yet we managed to deliver probably the best performance of 2021. We've served up some real tripe this year even with Joe in the team but Saturday was at times real big boys football. The challenge will be to not only raise our game against the top 4/6 but to do it against the lesser/bottom half teams, something we struggled with last season.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on September 15, 2021, 01:20:12 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on September 15, 2021, 11:50:04 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on September 15, 2021, 07:08:24 AM
What I do not understand is why after the unsettled start to the season we then add further disruption to the team by going to the European Champions with a completely different defensive system.

Yet we managed to deliver probably the best performance of 2021. We've served up some real tripe this year even with Joe in the team but Saturday was at times real big boys football. The challenge will be to not only raise our game against the top 4/6 but to do it against the lesser/bottom half teams, something we struggled with last season.
it was a performance defined by poor defending and a 3 nil loss.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: eamonn on September 15, 2021, 01:44:03 PM
			

			

				In the podcast Dean talks about his time visiting the Milwaulkee Bucks and walking into the changing room - can anyone remember when that was ?

It's good listen...removed Dean from the "Yeah, no" scripted weekly pressers that he/we're subjected to. 
Spotify link: https://open.spotify.com/show/2mj53XXpfrn55zW8ZxuKwx
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Smithy on September 15, 2021, 01:44:14 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: ChicagoLion on September 15, 2021, 01:20:12 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on September 15, 2021, 11:50:04 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on September 15, 2021, 07:08:24 AM
What I do not understand is why after the unsettled start to the season we then add further disruption to the team by going to the European Champions with a completely different defensive system.

Yet we managed to deliver probably the best performance of 2021. We've served up some real tripe this year even with Joe in the team but Saturday was at times real big boys football. The challenge will be to not only raise our game against the top 4/6 but to do it against the lesser/bottom half teams, something we struggled with last season.
it was a performance defined by poor defending and a 3 nil loss.

I disagree. The result was defined by that, definitely.  The performance, no, not so much.  It's why 'result' and 'performance' are not synonymous, and how they often don't align.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ozzjim on September 15, 2021, 08:24:49 PM
			

			

				2 individual mistakes and a world class striker at one end, with a striker playing his first game of the season and lacking match sharpness the other.

The bigger worry for me is the longer stats, something like a point a game over the last 30 or so games, which is what ultimately needs to improve rapidly. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on September 15, 2021, 11:27:16 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: OCD on September 15, 2021, 11:29:57 AM
Saul was having an awful debut too, it was pretty easy to call that one. 

He was but didn't Drinkwater last about 70 minutes v Man. City even though he was just as bad. Mind you we were 3 or 4 nil down at half time so wouldn't have made any difference.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on September 15, 2021, 11:29:29 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: ChicagoLion on September 15, 2021, 01:20:12 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on September 15, 2021, 11:50:04 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on September 15, 2021, 07:08:24 AM
What I do not understand is why after the unsettled start to the season we then add further disruption to the team by going to the European Champions with a completely different defensive system.

Yet we managed to deliver probably the best performance of 2021. We've served up some real tripe this year even with Joe in the team but Saturday was at times real big boys football. The challenge will be to not only raise our game against the top 4/6 but to do it against the lesser/bottom half teams, something we struggled with last season.
it was a performance defined by poor defending and a 3 nil loss.

We once lost 7-1 at Chelsea and finished 6th.

I do think if we can play to that standard on Saturday we'll get points off Everton and Spurs as we'll score a couple v them. Lukaku is also arguably most inform striker in world football last 12 months aswell.

If the prism of the season is judging every aspect of team and manager v Chelsea then I'm afraid many people are setting themselves up for huge disappointment.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ads on September 15, 2021, 11:52:08 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: SoccerHQ on September 15, 2021, 11:29:29 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on September 15, 2021, 01:20:12 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on September 15, 2021, 11:50:04 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on September 15, 2021, 07:08:24 AM
What I do not understand is why after the unsettled start to the season we then add further disruption to the team by going to the European Champions with a completely different defensive system.

Yet we managed to deliver probably the best performance of 2021. We've served up some real tripe this year even with Joe in the team but Saturday was at times real big boys football. The challenge will be to not only raise our game against the top 4/6 but to do it against the lesser/bottom half teams, something we struggled with last season.
it was a performance defined by poor defending and a 3 nil loss.

We once lost 7-1 at Chelsea and finished 6th.

I do think if we can play to that standard on Saturday we'll get points off Everton and Spurs as we'll score a couple v them. Lukaku is also arguably most inform striker in world football last 12 months aswell.

If the prism of the season is judging every aspect of team and manager v Chelsea then I'm afraid many people are setting themselves up for huge disappointment.

It's a deliberately contrived view. If you couldn't see a positive out of Saturday then I wouldn't bother with the remaining games. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: brontebilly on September 16, 2021, 12:35:56 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: ChicagoLion on September 15, 2021, 07:08:24 AM
What I do not understand is why after the unsettled start to the season we then add further disruption to the team by going to the European Champions with a completely different defensive system.

Matching up formation wise to Chelsea was hardly a surprise. Not much to lose and with Tuanzebe coming in we were always going to try 3 CBs at some stage. Ideal time to do it after the international break and considering the opposition.  

There was little to suggest in the first few games that the team setup was working well anyway. With Bailey getting fitter, it is unlikely to be retained too often. But the positive is that the three in midfield set up worked well. Deano can't be held responsible for the ricks that Mings and Watkins made that cost us the game. I'd look at the positives here, Deano tried a new formation. Players are coming back to fitness and we are better prepared for some key games coming up. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on September 16, 2021, 12:41:14 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: brontebilly on September 16, 2021, 12:35:56 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on September 15, 2021, 07:08:24 AM
What I do not understand is why after the unsettled start to the season we then add further disruption to the team by going to the European Champions with a completely different defensive system.



I'd look at the positives here

Fucking hell, bronte, that'll take some processing!
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on September 16, 2021, 12:47:23 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: SoccerHQ on September 15, 2021, 11:29:29 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on September 15, 2021, 01:20:12 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on September 15, 2021, 11:50:04 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on September 15, 2021, 07:08:24 AM
What I do not understand is why after the unsettled start to the season we then add further disruption to the team by going to the European Champions with a completely different defensive system.

Yet we managed to deliver probably the best performance of 2021. We've served up some real tripe this year even with Joe in the team but Saturday was at times real big boys football. The challenge will be to not only raise our game against the top 4/6 but to do it against the lesser/bottom half teams, something we struggled with last season.
it was a performance defined by poor defending and a 3 nil loss.

We once lost 7-1 at Chelsea and finished 6th.

I do think if we can play to that standard on Saturday we'll get points off Everton and Spurs as we'll score a couple v them. Lukaku is also arguably most inform striker in world football last 12 months aswell.

If the prism of the season is judging every aspect of team and manager v Chelsea then I'm afraid many people are setting themselves up for huge disappointment.

Minor point but that title belongs to lewandowski. lukaku, haaland, mbappe and kane have all been a level below him for a while now.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: LeonW on September 16, 2021, 02:08:54 AM
			

			

				It does surprise me how little credit in the bank Smith seems to have with a number of our supporters. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on September 16, 2021, 07:37:33 AM
			

			

				The trouble is how often have we said "if we play like that all season we'll be fine" to then not go and play anywhere near as well in the next game.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: CT on September 16, 2021, 08:00:42 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on September 16, 2021, 07:37:33 AM
The trouble is how often have we said "if we play like that all season we'll be fine" to then not go and play anywhere near as well in the next game.

How many times have we heard that over the years? “This is the standard, this is our benchmark” and then play nowhere near that standard. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on September 16, 2021, 09:23:34 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: CT on September 16, 2021, 08:00:42 AM
Quote from: Risso on September 16, 2021, 07:37:33 AM
The trouble is how often have we said "if we play like that all season we'll be fine" to then not go and play anywhere near as well in the next game.

How many times have we heard that over the years? “This is the standard, this is our benchmark” and then play nowhere near that standard. 

Yep. Perfect example last season, stuff Liverpool at home and then deservedly beat Leicester away, to ship 7 goals in losing to Leeds and Southampton at home.  Beat Leeds away, then lost at home to Sheffield United. I guess that's football to an extent, but Smith's teams always seem to struggle with consistency.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: chrisw1 on September 16, 2021, 10:11:54 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on September 16, 2021, 09:23:34 AM
Quote from: CT on September 16, 2021, 08:00:42 AM
Quote from: Risso on September 16, 2021, 07:37:33 AM
The trouble is how often have we said "if we play like that all season we'll be fine" to then not go and play anywhere near as well in the next game.

How many times have we heard that over the years? “This is the standard, this is our benchmark” and then play nowhere near that standard. 

Yep. Perfect example last season, stuff Liverpool at home and then deservedly beat Leicester away, to ship 7 goals in losing to Leeds and Southampton at home.  Beat Leeds away, then lost at home to Sheffield United. I guess that's football to an extent, but Smith's teams always seem to struggle with consistency.
Except when Grealish is injured, then we tend to be very consistent.

Don't know why I'm swiping, I'm Smith in!
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Smithy on September 16, 2021, 11:36:25 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on September 16, 2021, 09:23:34 AM
Quote from: CT on September 16, 2021, 08:00:42 AM
Quote from: Risso on September 16, 2021, 07:37:33 AM
The trouble is how often have we said "if we play like that all season we'll be fine" to then not go and play anywhere near as well in the next game.

How many times have we heard that over the years? “This is the standard, this is our benchmark” and then play nowhere near that standard. 

Yep. Perfect example last season, stuff Liverpool at home and then deservedly beat Leicester away, to ship 7 goals in losing to Leeds and Southampton at home.  Beat Leeds away, then lost at home to Sheffield United. I guess that's football to an extent, but Smith's teams always seem to struggle with consistency.

I think consistency is something you don't see much of in the Premier League outside the top 4. Leicester, who only missed out on the Top 4 on the last day lost back-to-back games four times last season, and only won one of their last 5 games.

I'd love us to be consistent, week in, week out, but the reality is we're going to have bad games, games where we're simply outplayed, and games where we give the opposition the result rather than them 'earning' it like we did against Chelsea.

For me, this season has to be about avoiding long runs of bad results, which has been fairly typical when we've been without Grealish in the past.  Let's see if we can avoid going three or four games without a win. Let's try and make back-to-back wins a more regular occurrence (we only did it once in the whole of the second half of last season).  If we do that, we'll match last season and maybe even better it.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: sirlordbaltimore on September 16, 2021, 11:38:46 AM
			

			

				


Smith retains my full support until we start to go backwards.

I'll happily judge that come May 2022.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on September 16, 2021, 12:21:05 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Smithy on September 16, 2021, 11:36:25 AM
Quote from: Risso on September 16, 2021, 09:23:34 AM
Quote from: CT on September 16, 2021, 08:00:42 AM
Quote from: Risso on September 16, 2021, 07:37:33 AM
The trouble is how often have we said "if we play like that all season we'll be fine" to then not go and play anywhere near as well in the next game.

How many times have we heard that over the years? “This is the standard, this is our benchmark” and then play nowhere near that standard. 

Yep. Perfect example last season, stuff Liverpool at home and then deservedly beat Leicester away, to ship 7 goals in losing to Leeds and Southampton at home.  Beat Leeds away, then lost at home to Sheffield United. I guess that's football to an extent, but Smith's teams always seem to struggle with consistency.

I think consistency is something you don't see much of in the Premier League outside the top 4. Leicester, who only missed out on the Top 4 on the last day lost back-to-back games four times last season, and only won one of their last 5 games.

I'd love us to be consistent, week in, week out, but the reality is we're going to have bad games, games where we're simply outplayed, and games where we give the opposition the result rather than them 'earning' it like we did against Chelsea.

For me, this season has to be about avoiding long runs of bad results, which has been fairly typical when we've been without Grealish in the past.  Let's see if we can avoid going three or four games without a win. Let's try and make back-to-back wins a more regular occurrence (we only did it once in the whole of the second half of last season).  If we do that, we'll match last season and maybe even better it.

It’s just a worry that if you take the second half of last season into account, we’re still bumbling along at just over a point a game, which given the money spent is a bit crap.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on September 16, 2021, 12:28:24 PM
			

			

				At the risk of using the phrase 'false narrative', I think the 'money spent' argument is a distorted chronicle. We had to spend half the money to even be in with a shout of standing still. Then a big chunk of it came from the sale of a Man City player who had been pretty integral to what we were. Obviously, it could go tits-up, but we haven't really had a chance to see where we can go with these new lads.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ozzjim on September 16, 2021, 12:34:35 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on September 16, 2021, 12:21:05 PM
Quote from: Smithy on September 16, 2021, 11:36:25 AM
Quote from: Risso on September 16, 2021, 09:23:34 AM
Quote from: CT on September 16, 2021, 08:00:42 AM
Quote from: Risso on September 16, 2021, 07:37:33 AM
The trouble is how often have we said "if we play like that all season we'll be fine" to then not go and play anywhere near as well in the next game.

How many times have we heard that over the years? “This is the standard, this is our benchmark” and then play nowhere near that standard. 

Yep. Perfect example last season, stuff Liverpool at home and then deservedly beat Leicester away, to ship 7 goals in losing to Leeds and Southampton at home.  Beat Leeds away, then lost at home to Sheffield United. I guess that's football to an extent, but Smith's teams always seem to struggle with consistency.

I think consistency is something you don't see much of in the Premier League outside the top 4. Leicester, who only missed out on the Top 4 on the last day lost back-to-back games four times last season, and only won one of their last 5 games.

I'd love us to be consistent, week in, week out, but the reality is we're going to have bad games, games where we're simply outplayed, and games where we give the opposition the result rather than them 'earning' it like we did against Chelsea.

For me, this season has to be about avoiding long runs of bad results, which has been fairly typical when we've been without Grealish in the past.  Let's see if we can avoid going three or four games without a win. Let's try and make back-to-back wins a more regular occurrence (we only did it once in the whole of the second half of last season).  If we do that, we'll match last season and maybe even better it.

It’s just a worry that if you take the second half of last season into account, we’re still bumbling along at just over a point a game, which given the money spent is a bit crap.

I think it is about 27 points from the last 23 games. Around 45 is points in the season, so around 14th-15th ish. I think this weekend is quite a big game for us, as is the Spurs game. Both are games that we have the talent in the squad to win, we won at Spurs last season, and should be backing ourselves to do it again.  
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Clampy on September 16, 2021, 01:15:27 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on September 16, 2021, 12:28:24 PM
At the risk of using the phrase 'false narrative', I think the 'money spent' argument is a distorted chronicle. We had to spend half the money to even be in with a shout of standing still. Then a big chunk of it came from the sale of a Man City player who had been pretty integral to what we were. Obviously, it could go tits-up, but we haven't really had a chance to see where we can go with these new lads.

Totally agree. I think once again, a little patience is needed. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on September 16, 2021, 02:05:39 PM
			

			

				In October we play Spurs, Wolves, Arsenal and West Ham.

I think that's the time to judge DS.

Three of those four finished above us last season but we also took 13 points out of 24 against them (and got totally robbed at West Ham).

By then DS would've had this squad for two months, we aren't playing europe and injuries would have cleared up.

If we play like we did v Chelsea we can beat two of them and get a draw and that would get us nicely comfortable in mid table with a good run of fixtures in winter to come.

Hardly win a game and it really dosen't say much for our prospects as a couple of those teams will struggle to finish much above 8th.

That's the period where Dean needs to come up with settled team and decide on who's the regular starters in the final third so he has a few more games to test things out.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Smithy on September 16, 2021, 02:08:55 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on September 16, 2021, 12:21:05 PM
Quote from: Smithy on September 16, 2021, 11:36:25 AM
Quote from: Risso on September 16, 2021, 09:23:34 AM
Quote from: CT on September 16, 2021, 08:00:42 AM
Quote from: Risso on September 16, 2021, 07:37:33 AM
The trouble is how often have we said "if we play like that all season we'll be fine" to then not go and play anywhere near as well in the next game.

How many times have we heard that over the years? “This is the standard, this is our benchmark” and then play nowhere near that standard. 

Yep. Perfect example last season, stuff Liverpool at home and then deservedly beat Leicester away, to ship 7 goals in losing to Leeds and Southampton at home.  Beat Leeds away, then lost at home to Sheffield United. I guess that's football to an extent, but Smith's teams always seem to struggle with consistency.

I think consistency is something you don't see much of in the Premier League outside the top 4. Leicester, who only missed out on the Top 4 on the last day lost back-to-back games four times last season, and only won one of their last 5 games.

I'd love us to be consistent, week in, week out, but the reality is we're going to have bad games, games where we're simply outplayed, and games where we give the opposition the result rather than them 'earning' it like we did against Chelsea.

For me, this season has to be about avoiding long runs of bad results, which has been fairly typical when we've been without Grealish in the past.  Let's see if we can avoid going three or four games without a win. Let's try and make back-to-back wins a more regular occurrence (we only did it once in the whole of the second half of last season).  If we do that, we'll match last season and maybe even better it.

It’s just a worry that if you take the second half of last season into account, we’re still bumbling along at just over a point a game, which given the money spent is a bit crap.

I agree, in that the form without Grealish wasn't very good at all last season.  But that was a team built around him, and from which he was removed for a good chunk of the season.  THIS team was built without him.  This team without Grealish is definitely better than last season's team without Grealish.  The real question though, is whether it's better than last season's team WITH Grealish.  I'm hopeful it will be, but it might take until everyone is fully fit and available to see it.

I genuinely can't wait to see us when we have a mixture of Watkins, Ings, Bailey, Buendia, and Trarore all fully fit and available (they won't all start, obv, but what great options from the bench we'll have). That's when I think we can judge if we're better than last year.

Our start has been distinctly average, absolutely, but I don't think we've yet put out what you might call our new first choice 11?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: villa for life on September 16, 2021, 05:54:20 PM
			

			

				Won’t it be just a case of who’s out there to replace him? If there’s someone much better, his position may be under threat, in the same way as a player’s is.

Heaton was good. We went and got Martinez. 
Watkins is good. We went and got Ings.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: cdbearsfan on September 16, 2021, 05:58:18 PM
			

			

				That isn't really how it works with managers, though.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: villa for life on September 16, 2021, 05:59:32 PM
			

			

				I think it does nowadays.

Lampard - Tuchel 

Etc 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on September 16, 2021, 06:00:34 PM
			

			

				McGinn Luiz Ramsey Looked really good on Saturday all of them positive ball players going forward when possible
I hope they can carry that on against Everton because that is what we need a proper midfield

Fella on Twitter made a good point about Ramsay
Hypothetically saying if we’d have signed a midfield player for 25/30 mil in the window and he played the same as Ramsay has done so far this season we would all be delighted Saying we’ve got a future star on our hands 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: villa for life on September 16, 2021, 06:03:36 PM
			

			

				Wrong thread?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: cdbearsfan on September 16, 2021, 06:03:54 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: villa for life on September 16, 2021, 05:59:32 PM
I think it does nowadays.

Lampard - Tuchel 

Etc

Lampard was got rid of because he was underperforming, not because Tuchel was suddenly available. A manager of Tuchel's class is nearly always going to be available to Chelsea given the salary, transfer budget, location and so on.

It maybe happens to an extent at basket case clubs (thinking of Watford) who seem to hire and fire managers depending on the owner's horoscope on any given day.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Tayls_7 on September 16, 2021, 06:04:29 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: john e on September 16, 2021, 06:00:34 PM
McGinn Luiz Ramsey Looked really good on Saturday all of them positive ball players going forward when possible
I hope they can carry that on against Everton because that is what we need a proper midfield

Fella on Twitter made a good point about Ramsay
Hypothetically saying if we’d have signed a midfield player for 25/30 mil in the window and he played the same as Ramsay has done so far this season we would all be delighted Saying we’ve got a future star on our hands

With Chuck and Sansom fighting hard to usurp them then hopefully the calls for a dedicated DM won't be as urgent as I thought it was.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: cdbearsfan on September 16, 2021, 06:05:44 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: john e on September 16, 2021, 06:00:34 PM
McGinn Luiz Ramsey Looked really good on Saturday all of them positive ball players going forward when possible
I hope they can carry that on against Everton because that is what we need a proper midfield

Fella on Twitter made a good point about Ramsay
Hypothetically saying if we’d have signed a midfield player for 25/30 mil in the window and he played the same as Ramsay has done so far this season we would all be delighted Saying we’ve got a future star on our hands

I like that analogy.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: villa for life on September 16, 2021, 06:05:54 PM
			

			

				Exactly- an underperforming manager will always be under threat if someone better is available.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: tony scott on September 16, 2021, 09:37:15 PM
			

			

				He fits us well, but I’m not sure there would be too many premiership teams hammering down hisdoor if he left us. I want him to get a couple of wins in the next 5 that will steady things.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Rory on September 16, 2021, 09:51:17 PM
			

			

				I love Dean, but unless he becomes our Alex Ferguson (but not a complete twat) it's difficult to escape the thought that his legacy is already established. Regardless of what anybody thinks of the team's performances and the role fortune played, he's the man who got us up, kept us up, and delivered our best season in a decade.

He has delivered on every target he has been set, exceeded expectations in lots of ways, and unless we're at risk of relegation, he has a hell of a lot of credit in the bank, for me. My main worry is that if things start to turn, it may tarnish the legacy of the most significant manager we've had in my lifetime, alongside Saint Brian.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Steve67 on September 16, 2021, 09:53:50 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: villa for life on September 16, 2021, 06:05:54 PM
Exactly- an underperforming manager will always be under threat if someone better is available.

I take it you are talking about Frank Lampard rather than Dean Smith? 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Beard82 on September 16, 2021, 10:25:50 PM
			

			

				Been following villa for 30 years - and hes given me some of the best villa moments since Sir Brian.  

Ill happy follow him this season.  Hes done us, and himself proud.  Would love him to be the one to win a cup, or get us into europe - and I think hes done enough to suggest thats a real possability in the next couple of years

As someone said, only the top few clubs look good week in week out, and ill happily cut him some slack for a little while yet.  


			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: steamer on September 16, 2021, 10:50:21 PM
			

			

				I do not see us winning the league anytime soon
Which is a very sad acceptance
So what realistically can he/we achieve ?
League cup, FA cup (please), European games , Bit like everyone else outside of, Chite, Chelski, Lplop, and Newton Heath
If we are not snapping at their heels  next season then it is probably not his failure but that of Team AV
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: eamonn on September 16, 2021, 11:22:54 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Rory on September 16, 2021, 09:51:17 PM
I love Dean, but unless he becomes our Alex Ferguson (but not a complete twat) it's difficult to escape the thought that his legacy is already established. Regardless of what anybody thinks of the team's performances and the role fortune played, he's the man who got us up, kept us up, and delivered our best season in a decade.

He has delivered on every target he has been set, exceeded expectations in lots of ways, and unless we're at risk of relegation, he has a hell of a lot of credit in the bank, for me. My main worry is that if things start to turn, it may tarnish the legacy of the most significant manager we've had in my lifetime, alongside Saint Brian.

C'mon...SirGraham, Big Ron, even Martin O'fucking Neil have all reached higher than our Dean. Unless you're younger than you write.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Rory on September 16, 2021, 11:35:19 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: eamonn on September 16, 2021, 11:22:54 PM
Quote from: Rory on September 16, 2021, 09:51:17 PM
I love Dean, but unless he becomes our Alex Ferguson (but not a complete twat) it's difficult to escape the thought that his legacy is already established. Regardless of what anybody thinks of the team's performances and the role fortune played, he's the man who got us up, kept us up, and delivered our best season in a decade.

He has delivered on every target he has been set, exceeded expectations in lots of ways, and unless we're at risk of relegation, he has a hell of a lot of credit in the bank, for me. My main worry is that if things start to turn, it may tarnish the legacy of the most significant manager we've had in my lifetime, alongside Saint Brian.

C'mon...SirGraham, Big Ron, even Martin O'fucking Neil have all reached higher than our Dean. Unless you're younger than you write.

I'm too young for Sir Graham's first spell (and, in truth, BFR) but Dean inherited a squad and a club in a worse state than BFR or MON. 

He who walks on water was manager when I was old enough to start following us, and after him, I think Dean has achieved more than any of them. Gregory, Taylor II, O'Leary, O'Neill, Houllier, McLeish, Lambert, Sherwood, Garde, Di Matteo, Bruce. It's not an embarrassment of riches!
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: pauliewalnuts on September 16, 2021, 11:40:23 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Rory on September 16, 2021, 11:35:19 PM
Quote from: eamonn on September 16, 2021, 11:22:54 PM
Quote from: Rory on September 16, 2021, 09:51:17 PM
I love Dean, but unless he becomes our Alex Ferguson (but not a complete twat) it's difficult to escape the thought that his legacy is already established. Regardless of what anybody thinks of the team's performances and the role fortune played, he's the man who got us up, kept us up, and delivered our best season in a decade.

He has delivered on every target he has been set, exceeded expectations in lots of ways, and unless we're at risk of relegation, he has a hell of a lot of credit in the bank, for me. My main worry is that if things start to turn, it may tarnish the legacy of the most significant manager we've had in my lifetime, alongside Saint Brian.

C'mon...SirGraham, Big Ron, even Martin O'fucking Neil have all reached higher than our Dean. Unless you're younger than you write.

I'm too young for Sir Graham's first spell (and, in truth, BFR) but Dean inherited a squad and a club in a worse state than BFR or MON. 

He who walks on water was manager when I was old enough to start following us, and after him, I think Dean has achieved more than any of them. Gregory, Taylor II, O'Leary, O'Neill, Houllier, McLeish, Lambert, Sherwood, Garde, Di Matteo, Bruce. It's not an embarrassment of riches!

Really?

Yeah, he inherited a team in the Championship, but it was a team owned by two billionaires who have pumped hundreds of millions into the club. He's got us promoted, kept us up on the last day and got us mid table. Doing so with the advantage of the best player we've had for decades

Not sure how that compares favourably to most of those managers you've listed, and even then, it is a pretty low bar.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Rory on September 16, 2021, 11:51:12 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on September 16, 2021, 11:40:23 PM
Quote from: Rory on September 16, 2021, 11:35:19 PM
Quote from: eamonn on September 16, 2021, 11:22:54 PM
Quote from: Rory on September 16, 2021, 09:51:17 PM
I love Dean, but unless he becomes our Alex Ferguson (but not a complete twat) it's difficult to escape the thought that his legacy is already established. Regardless of what anybody thinks of the team's performances and the role fortune played, he's the man who got us up, kept us up, and delivered our best season in a decade.

He has delivered on every target he has been set, exceeded expectations in lots of ways, and unless we're at risk of relegation, he has a hell of a lot of credit in the bank, for me. My main worry is that if things start to turn, it may tarnish the legacy of the most significant manager we've had in my lifetime, alongside Saint Brian.

C'mon...SirGraham, Big Ron, even Martin O'fucking Neil have all reached higher than our Dean. Unless you're younger than you write.

I'm too young for Sir Graham's first spell (and, in truth, BFR) but Dean inherited a squad and a club in a worse state than BFR or MON. 

He who walks on water was manager when I was old enough to start following us, and after him, I think Dean has achieved more than any of them. Gregory, Taylor II, O'Leary, O'Neill, Houllier, McLeish, Lambert, Sherwood, Garde, Di Matteo, Bruce. It's not an embarrassment of riches!

Really?

Yeah, he inherited a team in the Championship, but it was a team owned by two billionaires who have pumped hundreds of millions into the club. He's got us promoted, kept us up on the last day and got us mid table. Doing so with the advantage of the best player we've had for decades

Not sure how that compares favourably to most of those managers you've listed, and even then, it is a pretty low bar.

I think getting us promoted, staying up and rebuilding our entire squad into one that not only consolidated but strengthened our position, is pretty okay.

Gregory got us to a cup final and lost, Taylor II was just unfortunate, O'Leary did nothing much at all, O'Neill spent a fortune and did okay but achieved nothing, Houllier downgraded all of our expectations. Do we really need to continue beyond that? 

I didn't anticipate this amount of opposition, to be honest. Taylor II, O'Leary, Houllier, McLeish, Lambert, Garde, Di Matteo, Bruce - I'd be amazed to hear how any of them matched what Dean has done, investment or no investment.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: pauliewalnuts on September 17, 2021, 12:11:27 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Rory on September 16, 2021, 11:51:12 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on September 16, 2021, 11:40:23 PM
Quote from: Rory on September 16, 2021, 11:35:19 PM
Quote from: eamonn on September 16, 2021, 11:22:54 PM
Quote from: Rory on September 16, 2021, 09:51:17 PM
I love Dean, but unless he becomes our Alex Ferguson (but not a complete twat) it's difficult to escape the thought that his legacy is already established. Regardless of what anybody thinks of the team's performances and the role fortune played, he's the man who got us up, kept us up, and delivered our best season in a decade.

He has delivered on every target he has been set, exceeded expectations in lots of ways, and unless we're at risk of relegation, he has a hell of a lot of credit in the bank, for me. My main worry is that if things start to turn, it may tarnish the legacy of the most significant manager we've had in my lifetime, alongside Saint Brian.

C'mon...SirGraham, Big Ron, even Martin O'fucking Neil have all reached higher than our Dean. Unless you're younger than you write.

I'm too young for Sir Graham's first spell (and, in truth, BFR) but Dean inherited a squad and a club in a worse state than BFR or MON. 

He who walks on water was manager when I was old enough to start following us, and after him, I think Dean has achieved more than any of them. Gregory, Taylor II, O'Leary, O'Neill, Houllier, McLeish, Lambert, Sherwood, Garde, Di Matteo, Bruce. It's not an embarrassment of riches!

Really?

Yeah, he inherited a team in the Championship, but it was a team owned by two billionaires who have pumped hundreds of millions into the club. He's got us promoted, kept us up on the last day and got us mid table. Doing so with the advantage of the best player we've had for decades

Not sure how that compares favourably to most of those managers you've listed, and even then, it is a pretty low bar.

I think getting us promoted, staying up and rebuilding our entire squad into one that not only consolidated but strengthened our position, is pretty okay.

Gregory got us to a cup final and lost, Taylor II was just unfortunate, O'Leary did nothing much at all, O'Neill spent a fortune and did okay but achieved nothing, Houllier downgraded all of our expectations. Do we really need to continue beyond that? 

I didn't anticipate this amount of opposition, to be honest. Taylor II, O'Leary, Houllier, McLeish, Lambert, Garde, Di Matteo, Bruce - I'd be amazed to hear how any of them matched what Dean has done, investment or no investment.

I can't believe I am about to stick up for DOL, but he had us finish sixth in an environment of absolute penury. MON had us finish sixth three times. Houllier, in what is considered an awful season, had us finish ninth.

I like Dean but christ, if he's our highest achieving manager in almost 20 years then we've fallen even more than I thought we had.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on September 17, 2021, 06:51:26 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on September 16, 2021, 11:40:23 PM
Quote from: Rory on September 16, 2021, 11:35:19 PM
Quote from: eamonn on September 16, 2021, 11:22:54 PM
Quote from: Rory on September 16, 2021, 09:51:17 PM
I love Dean, but unless he becomes our Alex Ferguson (but not a complete twat) it's difficult to escape the thought that his legacy is already established. Regardless of what anybody thinks of the team's performances and the role fortune played, he's the man who got us up, kept us up, and delivered our best season in a decade.

He has delivered on every target he has been set, exceeded expectations in lots of ways, and unless we're at risk of relegation, he has a hell of a lot of credit in the bank, for me. My main worry is that if things start to turn, it may tarnish the legacy of the most significant manager we've had in my lifetime, alongside Saint Brian.

C'mon...SirGraham, Big Ron, even Martin O'fucking Neil have all reached higher than our Dean. Unless you're younger than you write.

I'm too young for Sir Graham's first spell (and, in truth, BFR) but Dean inherited a squad and a club in a worse state than BFR or MON. 

He who walks on water was manager when I was old enough to start following us, and after him, I think Dean has achieved more than any of them. Gregory, Taylor II, O'Leary, O'Neill, Houllier, McLeish, Lambert, Sherwood, Garde, Di Matteo, Bruce. It's not an embarrassment of riches!

Really?

Yeah, he inherited a team in the Championship, but it was a team owned by two billionaires who have pumped hundreds of millions into the club. He's got us promoted, kept us up on the last day and got us mid table. Doing so with the advantage of the best player we've had for decades

Not sure how that compares favourably to most of those managers you've listed, and even then, it is a pretty low bar.

I think you're forgetting how far we'd fallen. Remember cabbagegate. What were we, fifteenth in the second division with one centre-half? To get us up from there, with ten wins in a row, was a staggering achievement. Ok, we had the Man City player, but so did Bruce.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ian. on September 17, 2021, 07:07:50 AM
			

			

				Smith’s not really had much chance to really spend though has he? We only spent the same as what Fulham did when we got promoted. FFP held us back. Most of those players were only 12-15 million players which isn’t any great shakes anymore. So the luxury of having billionaire owners hasn’t been really exploited on the transfer market. Not like the likes of what Man City and Chelsea had done when they had the chance.

Also those players have improved us and also I’d say most have gone up in their value.

I quite like the approach we’re taking in the market now, a few exciting players, a couple with experience and purchasing talented teenagers, especially if it sees the likes of some our wonderful youth team getting to the same place as signing a few marquee signings.

That article SE posted on the transfer thread from the Liverpool supporter was spot on.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Rory on September 17, 2021, 08:53:22 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on September 17, 2021, 12:11:27 AM
Quote from: Rory on September 16, 2021, 11:51:12 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on September 16, 2021, 11:40:23 PM
Quote from: Rory on September 16, 2021, 11:35:19 PM
Quote from: eamonn on September 16, 2021, 11:22:54 PM
Quote from: Rory on September 16, 2021, 09:51:17 PM
I love Dean, but unless he becomes our Alex Ferguson (but not a complete twat) it's difficult to escape the thought that his legacy is already established. Regardless of what anybody thinks of the team's performances and the role fortune played, he's the man who got us up, kept us up, and delivered our best season in a decade.

He has delivered on every target he has been set, exceeded expectations in lots of ways, and unless we're at risk of relegation, he has a hell of a lot of credit in the bank, for me. My main worry is that if things start to turn, it may tarnish the legacy of the most significant manager we've had in my lifetime, alongside Saint Brian.

C'mon...SirGraham, Big Ron, even Martin O'fucking Neil have all reached higher than our Dean. Unless you're younger than you write.

I'm too young for Sir Graham's first spell (and, in truth, BFR) but Dean inherited a squad and a club in a worse state than BFR or MON. 

He who walks on water was manager when I was old enough to start following us, and after him, I think Dean has achieved more than any of them. Gregory, Taylor II, O'Leary, O'Neill, Houllier, McLeish, Lambert, Sherwood, Garde, Di Matteo, Bruce. It's not an embarrassment of riches!

Really?

Yeah, he inherited a team in the Championship, but it was a team owned by two billionaires who have pumped hundreds of millions into the club. He's got us promoted, kept us up on the last day and got us mid table. Doing so with the advantage of the best player we've had for decades

Not sure how that compares favourably to most of those managers you've listed, and even then, it is a pretty low bar.

I think getting us promoted, staying up and rebuilding our entire squad into one that not only consolidated but strengthened our position, is pretty okay.

Gregory got us to a cup final and lost, Taylor II was just unfortunate, O'Leary did nothing much at all, O'Neill spent a fortune and did okay but achieved nothing, Houllier downgraded all of our expectations. Do we really need to continue beyond that? 

I didn't anticipate this amount of opposition, to be honest. Taylor II, O'Leary, Houllier, McLeish, Lambert, Garde, Di Matteo, Bruce - I'd be amazed to hear how any of them matched what Dean has done, investment or no investment.

I can't believe I am about to stick up for DOL, but he had us finish sixth in an environment of absolute penury. MON had us finish sixth three times. Houllier, in what is considered an awful season, had us finish ninth.

I like Dean but christ, if he's our highest achieving manager in almost 20 years then we've fallen even more than I thought we had.

They all inherited a club in the top division, and none of them managed us to promotion. Even if you ignore what he inherited, the difference between 11th and 6th is only five places - hardly enough to justify a sense of disbelief that somebody would favourably compare him to other managers we've had.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ventnorVillain on September 17, 2021, 11:36:20 AM
			

			

				Last season, although we finished 11th, which is technically in the bottom half of the table, we only finished 12 points off a Champions League place, compared to finishing 27 points ahead of the relegation places i.e closer to the top, in terms of points, than the bottom. Had a certain player not missed approximately one third of the season who knows how much higher we would have finished. I don't think we can judge Dean until the new players have had the chance to bed in and he has been able to field a settled team. Sure, if we are still struggling by Christmas then I concede that there might have to be some difficult conversations. I suppose my point is that he is still in credit and deserves a chance to build some momentum. UTV
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Pat Mustard on September 17, 2021, 12:04:21 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on September 16, 2021, 11:40:23 PM
Quote from: Rory on September 16, 2021, 11:35:19 PM
Quote from: eamonn on September 16, 2021, 11:22:54 PM
Quote from: Rory on September 16, 2021, 09:51:17 PM
I love Dean, but unless he becomes our Alex Ferguson (but not a complete twat) it's difficult to escape the thought that his legacy is already established. Regardless of what anybody thinks of the team's performances and the role fortune played, he's the man who got us up, kept us up, and delivered our best season in a decade.

He has delivered on every target he has been set, exceeded expectations in lots of ways, and unless we're at risk of relegation, he has a hell of a lot of credit in the bank, for me. My main worry is that if things start to turn, it may tarnish the legacy of the most significant manager we've had in my lifetime, alongside Saint Brian.

C'mon...SirGraham, Big Ron, even Martin O'fucking Neil have all reached higher than our Dean. Unless you're younger than you write.

I'm too young for Sir Graham's first spell (and, in truth, BFR) but Dean inherited a squad and a club in a worse state than BFR or MON. 

He who walks on water was manager when I was old enough to start following us, and after him, I think Dean has achieved more than any of them. Gregory, Taylor II, O'Leary, O'Neill, Houllier, McLeish, Lambert, Sherwood, Garde, Di Matteo, Bruce. It's not an embarrassment of riches!

Really?

Yeah, he inherited a team in the Championship, but it was a team owned by two billionaires who have pumped hundreds of millions into the club. He's got us promoted, kept us up on the last day and got us mid table. Doing so with the advantage of the best player we've had for decades

Not sure how that compares favourably to most of those managers you've listed, and even then, it is a pretty low bar.

We could have been owned by Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk and The Queen at the time he took over, it wouldn't have mattered because we were in the bottom half of the Championship and couldn't sign anyone, with a squad that was nowhere near the level required to play in the Premier League.  We had key players only here on loan, and were staring down the barrel of FFP sanctions had we stayed in the Championship.  And, lest we forget, that so-called best player for decades had hardly covered himself in glory in that lower league - he certainly didn't look anything like a £100 million player for most of the time we were down there.

I can't believe this is even a debate for this season.  For reasons we are all aware it has taken us until our third season in the Premier League to get to a point where we can say we are at a level playing field with most of the other teams in here.  The first season back was never going to be anything other than a struggle due to the circumstances in which we came up.  We stayed up and got to a cup final.  Last year we played some of the best football I've seen us play in 25 years at times, and but for an injury to you know who could well have ended up in Europe with a squad that was still pretty threadbare in key positions.  We have now finally got to a point where we have some strength in depth, albeit with some settling in time required for key new signings.  The idea of sacking Smith shouldn't even be on the table, he has more than earned his chance to get a proper run at things this year.


			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: chrisw1 on September 17, 2021, 12:09:33 PM
			

			

				Smith's failure last season was being unable to get us out of the rut of poor results when Jack was injured.  It was an opportunity to really kick on missed in my view and killed any small chance we may have had of keeping Jack (in my opinion).   He does have a tendancy to be a streaky manager and we've had long poor runs before.  He needs to prove he has learnt and can sort this out in future.

We have a more balanced squad now with some incredibly exciting attacking players.  I like Smith, I like his football philosophy and think his achievements so far for Villa have been mostly very good.  He has a quality PL squad now and this season will be a litmus test for him.  Hopefully we'll beat Everton, but if we don't he needs to prove he can find some answers before this becomes one of them 'orrible runs and the season gets away from him.

I hope he does and I hope he's still here in a couple of years managing a a top 6 team.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: pauliewalnuts on September 17, 2021, 12:32:53 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Pat Mustard on September 17, 2021, 12:04:21 PM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on September 16, 2021, 11:40:23 PM
Quote from: Rory on September 16, 2021, 11:35:19 PM
Quote from: eamonn on September 16, 2021, 11:22:54 PM
Quote from: Rory on September 16, 2021, 09:51:17 PM
I love Dean, but unless he becomes our Alex Ferguson (but not a complete twat) it's difficult to escape the thought that his legacy is already established. Regardless of what anybody thinks of the team's performances and the role fortune played, he's the man who got us up, kept us up, and delivered our best season in a decade.

He has delivered on every target he has been set, exceeded expectations in lots of ways, and unless we're at risk of relegation, he has a hell of a lot of credit in the bank, for me. My main worry is that if things start to turn, it may tarnish the legacy of the most significant manager we've had in my lifetime, alongside Saint Brian.

C'mon...SirGraham, Big Ron, even Martin O'fucking Neil have all reached higher than our Dean. Unless you're younger than you write.

I'm too young for Sir Graham's first spell (and, in truth, BFR) but Dean inherited a squad and a club in a worse state than BFR or MON. 

He who walks on water was manager when I was old enough to start following us, and after him, I think Dean has achieved more than any of them. Gregory, Taylor II, O'Leary, O'Neill, Houllier, McLeish, Lambert, Sherwood, Garde, Di Matteo, Bruce. It's not an embarrassment of riches!

Really?

Yeah, he inherited a team in the Championship, but it was a team owned by two billionaires who have pumped hundreds of millions into the club. He's got us promoted, kept us up on the last day and got us mid table. Doing so with the advantage of the best player we've had for decades

Not sure how that compares favourably to most of those managers you've listed, and even then, it is a pretty low bar.

We could have been owned by Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk and The Queen at the time he took over, it wouldn't have mattered because we were in the bottom half of the Championship and couldn't sign anyone, with a squad that was nowhere near the level required to play in the Premier League.  We had key players only here on loan, and were staring down the barrel of FFP sanctions had we stayed in the Championship.  And, lest we forget, that so-called best player for decades had hardly covered himself in glory in that lower league - he certainly didn't look anything like a £100 million player for most of the time we were down there.

I can't believe this is even a debate for this season.  For reasons we are all aware it has taken us until our third season in the Premier League to get to a point where we can say we are at a level playing field with most of the other teams in here.  The first season back was never going to be anything other than a struggle due to the circumstances in which we came up.  We stayed up and got to a cup final.  Last year we played some of the best football I've seen us play in 25 years at times, and but for an injury to you know who could well have ended up in Europe with a squad that was still pretty threadbare in key positions.  We have now finally got to a point where we have some strength in depth, albeit with some settling in time required for key new signings.  The idea of sacking Smith shouldn't even be on the table, he has more than earned his chance to get a proper run at things this year.



Who is talking about sacking him?

And what shouldn't be up for debate? Him being the best manager in the last 25 years is the debate. It's totally possible to believe he's not but also think he's done a good job
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on September 17, 2021, 12:54:40 PM
			

			

				I'm not sure but  think he's got a good shout as the best in that time if you look at it beyond where people finished in the league.

Little overall did a better job but 25 years means you have to take out the cup win and just go on his last season and a bit.

After that every manager had problems:

Gregory - boring football and left us with a squad that was a mess.
Taylor - inherited said mess and didn't have the time to fix it.
DOL - was a wanker
MoN - got handed a golden ticket but hit a brick wall at 6th and then left us with a mess
Houllier - took completely the wrong approach to fixing the mess in first half of the season
McLeish - worst manager we'd ever had up to that point
Lambert - started badly, stumbled on to a decent formula for half a season and then fell to pieces - lasted at least a year longer han he deserved to
Sherwood - replaced McLeish as the worst ever left us with a squad so badly fractured that we were doomed
Garde - Wrong man, wrong time and got fucked over by everyone at the club
RDM - kid in a sweetshop in the summer and forgot that he needed to actually form all the signings into a team
Bruce - been done to death but I'm not a fan, underachieved in his 2nd season and left us with a unbalanced joke of a squad despite having plenty of money and quality to work with.

A few of them had higher highs than Smith has managed but he's not had any lows so far and, importantly, if he left this year I think he'd be leaving a squad that his replacement wouldn't need to do loads to fix, something none of the managers above ever really did. There are things about Smith that I find really frustrating but his squad building and player development has been superb and he deserves massive credit for that.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: N'ZMAV on September 17, 2021, 01:38:14 PM
			

			

				I quite liked Gregory - but looking back he under achieved with some of the players he had.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: eamonn on September 17, 2021, 01:42:25 PM
			

			

				Gregory talked a good game but post his 1998 honeymoon period, too often we didn't play a good game. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on September 17, 2021, 02:44:21 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: paul_e on September 17, 2021, 12:54:40 PM
I'm not sure but  think he's got a good shout as the best in that time if you look at it beyond where people finished in the league.

Little overall did a better job but 25 years means you have to take out the cup win and just go on his last season and a bit.

After that every manager had problems:

Gregory - boring football and left us with a squad that was a mess.
Taylor - inherited said mess and didn't have the time to fix it.
DOL - was a wanker
MoN - got handed a golden ticket but hit a brick wall at 6th and then left us with a mess
Houllier - took completely the wrong approach to fixing the mess in first half of the season
McLeish - worst manager we'd ever had up to that point
Lambert - started badly, stumbled on to a decent formula for half a season and then fell to pieces - lasted at least a year longer han he deserved to
Sherwood - replaced McLeish as the worst ever left us with a squad so badly fractured that we were doomed
Garde - Wrong man, wrong time and got fucked over by everyone at the club
RDM - kid in a sweetshop in the summer and forgot that he needed to actually form all the signings into a team
Bruce - been done to death but I'm not a fan, underachieved in his 2nd season and left us with a unbalanced joke of a squad despite having plenty of money and quality to work with.

A few of them had higher highs than Smith has managed but he's not had any lows so far and, importantly, if he left this year I think he'd be leaving a squad that his replacement wouldn't need to do loads to fix, something none of the managers above ever really did. There are things about Smith that I find really frustrating but his squad building and player development has been superb and he deserves massive credit for that.

A proper list of failure is that
Villa fans must have broke a lot of mirrors walked under a load of ladders passed on the same staircase to many times and seen plenty of single magpies to have deserved a back catalogue of dross like that, not withstanding a few highs
 

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Rigadon on September 17, 2021, 02:58:07 PM
			

			

				Good post paul_e.  I can't help imagining Leonard Cohen singing that to a sad-lament musical backing.  

Fuck me we've put up with a lot a shite haven't we. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: N'ZMAV on September 17, 2021, 03:22:27 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Rigadon on September 17, 2021, 02:58:07 PM
Good post paul_e.  I can't help imagining Leonard Cohen singing that to a sad-lament musical backing.  

Fuck me we've put up with a lot a shite haven't we. 
 I have no doubt there's more to come at some point. We're Aston Villa - we do things the hard way.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ez on September 17, 2021, 04:26:56 PM
			

			

				Judging by the performance at Chelsea I reckon this is the season we go for it. No holding back against the top sides anymore. Hopefully we are ready to do that.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on September 17, 2021, 04:35:12 PM
			

			

				Good balanced piece here by Paul Doyle on our squad here:
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/sep/17/no-excuses-for-aston-villa-as-they-aim-to-get-post-grealish-era-truly-started
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Three Spires Villa on September 17, 2021, 04:40:18 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: ez on September 17, 2021, 04:26:56 PM
Judging by the performance at Chelsea I reckon this is the season we go for it. No holding back against the top sides anymore. Hopefully we are ready to do that.
Quote from: ez on September 17, 2021, 04:26:56 PM
Judging by the performance at Chelsea I reckon this is the season we go for it. No holding back against the top sides anymore. Hopefully we are ready to do that.

But get beat by Watford and pretty poor v Newcastle. It is far to early to say what will happen this season. Yes we did play well at Chelsea i agree with that.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on September 17, 2021, 04:56:23 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on September 17, 2021, 04:35:12 PM
Good balanced piece here by Paul Doyle on our squad here:
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/sep/17/no-excuses-for-aston-villa-as-they-aim-to-get-post-grealish-era-truly-started

"No excuses". Not sure he's met many Villa fans!
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on September 17, 2021, 05:03:59 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on September 17, 2021, 04:56:23 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on September 17, 2021, 04:35:12 PM
Good balanced piece here by Paul Doyle on our squad here:
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/sep/17/no-excuses-for-aston-villa-as-they-aim-to-get-post-grealish-era-truly-started

"No excuses". Not sure he's met many Villa fans!

He's right though. We've 'replaced' the Man City player, we have squad options and goals in the team. I think Dean will succeed with these players, but we all know what happens if he doesn't.

I think Paul Doyle has a soft spot for us too.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: The Charmer on September 17, 2021, 05:29:21 PM
			

			

				Fair summation by Paul Doyle.

I am still in the 'hugely optimistic' camp for this season.
Now the full squad is available, if we can get some momentum and belief going then we may just be in for something special - starting tomorrow!

Very much hope the dropping Mings musing is wide-of-the-mark though. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: eamonn on September 17, 2021, 05:38:31 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on September 17, 2021, 04:35:12 PM
Good balanced piece here by Paul Doyle on our squad here:
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/sep/17/no-excuses-for-aston-villa-as-they-aim-to-get-post-grealish-era-truly-started

Doyler is a good egg (one of us, in disguise?). No way Mings will be dropped for Axel Foley though.

And in the Gruan's actual match preview they have Watkins benched. Can't see that, unless he's been given new-daddy-dispensation to come to terms with the scariest thing in his life - a new baby of his own. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on September 17, 2021, 06:15:34 PM
			

			

				
Quote
The difference with Villa this season is exactly that – the ability to be different from game to game, and within games, in the quest for consistent performances and results. The only thing they are shorter of now is excuses.

Absolutely! Dean needs to lose the 'feast or famine' reputation this season or it will not only end his time at Villa Park, it will follow him around as he moves on. No club will ever give him such a brilliant opportunity to do just that as he currently has at Villa Park. Improving his home record will go a long way too.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Mister E on September 17, 2021, 09:09:50 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on September 17, 2021, 04:35:12 PM
Good balanced piece here by Paul Doyle on our squad here:
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/sep/17/no-excuses-for-aston-villa-as-they-aim-to-get-post-grealish-era-truly-started
 good piece indeed. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on September 17, 2021, 10:35:20 PM
			

			

				I'm not pleased with the mixed start we've had, and thought that we wouldn't be as limited as a result of injuries etc. this season. However, we've not had close to a settled or first choice lineup yet. I feel like we're stronger than last season so we should expect more. Smith has my support for a good while yet, unless we just get battered every game.

Every team can get stuffed, even the good ones, you only have to see what we did to Liverpool last season to see that. The trick for us is to compete all the time and I think we have players and depth to do it.

My gut feeling is that we'll all (well a vast, vast majority) be wanting the same come the end of the season. I just hope it's that Smith carries on rather than wanting him out. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Rigadon on September 18, 2021, 05:46:10 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Drummond on September 17, 2021, 10:35:20 PM
I'm not pleased with the mixed start we've had, and thought that we wouldn't be as limited as a result of injuries etc. this season. However, we've not had close to a settled or first choice lineup yet. I feel like we're stronger than last season so we should expect more. Smith has my support for a good while yet, unless we just get battered every game.

Every team can get stuffed, even the good ones, you only have to see what we did to Liverpool last season to see that. The trick for us is to compete all the time and I think we have players and depth to do it.

My gut feeling is that we'll all (well a vast, vast majority) be wanting the same come the end of the season. I just hope it's that Smith carries on rather than wanting him out. 

I think that's right.  It could go either way of course, but I really hope Dean Smith is still in the job this time next year, as it will mean we have progressed again under his management.


			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on September 18, 2021, 08:19:04 AM
			

			

				I am not convinced how far Smith can take us now but he has to get time with a settled squad and let’s see what he can do
Some of the best football I’ve seen us play in donkeys years was the first half of last season
I know it was with the Grealish effect but nevertheless it was under Smiths guidance

More to the point I can’t see anyone who is available or gettable to replace him anyway



			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Dante Lavelli on September 18, 2021, 01:31:53 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: john e on September 18, 2021, 08:19:04 AM
More to the point I can’t see anyone who is available or gettable to replace him anyway

That’s part of the conundrum for me. Smith is doing okay and has credit in the bank. Regardless there’s not really an obviously replacement that would justify sacking him.

Potter might become that man but I’d prefer him to have another season at Brighton first. Poch might get sacked by PSG but there’s no point sacking smith in anticipation.

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ian. on September 18, 2021, 08:29:34 PM
			

			

				Well he’s put together the most exciting team we’ve had in years. His tactics paid off today and his substitutions were genius.

It’s going to be like a lottery seeing who’s in the starting eleven every week. The way Ramsey, Luiz played today makes them impossible to drop. The same with McGinn the way he’s started the season.

Bailey if for has to start somehow, he could be one of the best players in the league on that outing today. Incredible.

Our defence today outstanding, Cash was so good. 

Well Smith has some great problems too solve, so tricky. A nice position to be in.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on September 18, 2021, 08:32:25 PM
			

			

				Agreed Ian. Buendia is going to have to fight to get back in the team.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: LeeB on September 18, 2021, 10:24:39 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on September 18, 2021, 08:32:25 PM
Agreed Ian. Buendia is going to have to fight to get back in the team.

Which is great. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ian. on September 18, 2021, 10:30:19 PM
			

			

				He also has to have credit for outsmarting what some folks call a top end manager. 10 out 10 today.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on September 18, 2021, 10:41:15 PM
			

			

				Personally I'd have started Bailey today although of course it was better he was used the way he was tonight rather than go off after 20 minutes.

He's obviously going to start next weekend. Interested what else happens. Axel can't play for a start so assume we'll go back to back 4 and guess SJM is ruled out with concussion if rules are followed.

Did think Buendia would drop into midfield but could easily be what played the first half.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on September 18, 2021, 10:45:15 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: SoccerHQ on September 18, 2021, 10:41:15 PM
Personally I'd have started Bailey today although of course it was better he was used the way he was tonight rather than go off after 20 minutes.

He's obviously going to start next weekend. Interested what else happens. Axel can't play for a start so assume we'll go back to back 4 and guess SJM is ruled out with concussion if rules are followed.

Did think Buendia would drop into midfield but could easily be what played the first half.

Nakamba in for Axel Bailey in for McGinn and play Bailey and Watkins either side of Ings. It's a game we expect nothing from so fuck it lets go for it make them scared of letting us in behind. Bailey's goal today will have a few teams worrying about a high press and/or high defensive line against us he has pace on a par with the very quickest in the league.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Neil Hawkes on September 19, 2021, 09:07:07 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: paul_e on September 17, 2021, 12:54:40 PM
I'm not sure but  think he's got a good shout as the best in that time if you look at it beyond where people finished in the league.

Little overall did a better job but 25 years means you have to take out the cup win and just go on his last season and a bit.

After that every manager had problems:

Gregory - boring football and left us with a squad that was a mess.
Taylor - inherited said mess and didn't have the time to fix it.
DOL - was a wanker
MoN - got handed a golden ticket but hit a brick wall at 6th and then left us with a mess
Houllier - took completely the wrong approach to fixing the mess in first half of the season
McLeish - worst manager we'd ever had up to that point
Lambert - started badly, stumbled on to a decent formula for half a season and then fell to pieces - lasted at least a year longer han he deserved to
Sherwood - replaced McLeish as the worst ever left us with a squad so badly fractured that we were doomed
Garde - Wrong man, wrong time and got fucked over by everyone at the club
RDM - kid in a sweetshop in the summer and forgot that he needed to actually form all the signings into a team
Bruce - been done to death but I'm not a fan, underachieved in his 2nd season and left us with a unbalanced joke of a squad despite having plenty of money and quality to work with.

A few of them had higher highs than Smith has managed but he's not had any lows so far and, importantly, if he left this year I think he'd be leaving a squad that his replacement wouldn't need to do loads to fix, something none of the managers above ever really did. There are things about Smith that I find really frustrating but his squad building and player development has been superb and he deserves massive credit for that.
Spot on, until Deano hit's his brick wall, I'm happy with the continual progression; as intimated above, keep the lows less than the highs.

PS: I'm also hopeful that he will not hit a brick wall, would love to see this guy lift some more Silverware
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: DeeBoy1 on September 19, 2021, 09:44:13 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: paul_e on September 18, 2021, 10:45:15 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on September 18, 2021, 10:41:15 PM
Personally I'd have started Bailey today although of course it was better he was used the way he was tonight rather than go off after 20 minutes.

He's obviously going to start next weekend. Interested what else happens. Axel can't play for a start so assume we'll go back to back 4 and guess SJM is ruled out with concussion if rules are followed.

Did think Buendia would drop into midfield but could easily be what played the first half.

Nakamba in for Axel Bailey in for McGinn and play Bailey and Watkins either side of Ings. It's a game we expect nothing from so fuck it lets go for it make them scared of letting us in behind. Bailey's goal today will have a few teams worrying about a high press and/or high defensive line against us he has pace on a par with the very quickest in the league.

I think it would be a shame to move away from the 352 against Man U. What are the thoughts on Targett moving into the back 3 and Young playing WB? I think Matty could do a Staunton like job in there…Possibly Bailey coming into the midfield 3
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Steve67 on September 19, 2021, 03:14:53 PM
			

			

				No Deeboy1, absolutely not.  Why change the back three, we are not Gareth Southgate.   Stick with Konsa, Tuanzebe and Mings unless we go to four at the back.  I cannot see Targett being a left centre back when we have Hause and Mings ready for that role. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: cdbearsfan on September 19, 2021, 03:20:29 PM
			

			

				There are some sickening posts on here.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on September 19, 2021, 03:25:42 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Steve67 on September 19, 2021, 03:14:53 PM
No Deeboy1, absolutely not.  Why change the back three, we are not Gareth Southgate.   Stick with Konsa, Tuanzebe and Mings unless we go to four at the back.  I cannot see Targett being a left centre back when we have Hause and Mings ready for that role. 

Axel can't play v Man. United so would have to be Hause. Get him on Ronaldo for every set piece.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Steve67 on September 19, 2021, 03:32:46 PM
			

			

				Very true SHQ.  I reckon we go back to a back four and get Bailey in the starting line up.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: algy on September 19, 2021, 04:48:10 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Neil Hawkes on September 19, 2021, 09:07:07 AM
Quote from: paul_e on September 17, 2021, 12:54:40 PM
I'm not sure but  think he's got a good shout as the best in that time if you look at it beyond where people finished in the league.

Little overall did a better job but 25 years means you have to take out the cup win and just go on his last season and a bit.

After that every manager had problems:

Gregory - boring football and left us with a squad that was a mess.
Taylor - inherited said mess and didn't have the time to fix it.
DOL - was a wanker
MoN - got handed a golden ticket but hit a brick wall at 6th and then left us with a mess
Houllier - took completely the wrong approach to fixing the mess in first half of the season
McLeish - worst manager we'd ever had up to that point
Lambert - started badly, stumbled on to a decent formula for half a season and then fell to pieces - lasted at least a year longer han he deserved to
Sherwood - replaced McLeish as the worst ever left us with a squad so badly fractured that we were doomed
Garde - Wrong man, wrong time and got fucked over by everyone at the club
RDM - kid in a sweetshop in the summer and forgot that he needed to actually form all the signings into a team
Bruce - been done to death but I'm not a fan, underachieved in his 2nd season and left us with a unbalanced joke of a squad despite having plenty of money and quality to work with.

A few of them had higher highs than Smith has managed but he's not had any lows so far and, importantly, if he left this year I think he'd be leaving a squad that his replacement wouldn't need to do loads to fix, something none of the managers above ever really did. There are things about Smith that I find really frustrating but his squad building and player development has been superb and he deserves massive credit for that.
Spot on, until Deano hit's his brick wall, I'm happy with the continual progression; as intimated above, keep the lows less than the highs.

PS: I'm also hopeful that he will not hit a brick wall, would love to see this guy lift some more Silverware
I agree totally here. Out of the many managers we've had since I started going to games (1988), I'd say there's only SGT (1st spell), Big Fat Ron, Brian Little, John Gregory, and MON who've enjoyed anything like the success that Dean Smith has. It's hard to compare managers after that as they're very different eras and have had to work in different circumstances .. but right now i'd be fairly comfortable with putting Dean in the first 3 in that list rather than the second 2. I think he's a great manager and there's every chance that he'll be remembered very fondly when he finally does leave.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: DeeBoy1 on September 19, 2021, 05:07:07 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Steve67 on September 19, 2021, 03:14:53 PM
No Deeboy1, absolutely not.  Why change the back three, we are not Gareth Southgate.   Stick with Konsa, Tuanzebe and Mings unless we go to four at the back.  I cannot see Targett being a left centre back when we have Hause and Mings ready for that role. 

Was only because Axel can’t play. I guess Hause is the safer option but the more I see Targett the less I’m convinced he’s a creative wing back without that Man City player in front of him.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Steve67 on September 19, 2021, 05:30:36 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: DeeBoy1 on September 19, 2021, 05:07:07 PM
Quote from: Steve67 on September 19, 2021, 03:14:53 PM
No Deeboy1, absolutely not.  Why change the back three, we are not Gareth Southgate.   Stick with Konsa, Tuanzebe and Mings unless we go to four at the back.  I cannot see Targett being a left centre back when we have Hause and Mings ready for that role. 

Was only because Axel can’t play. I guess Hause is the safer option but the more I see Targett the less I’m convinced he’s a creative wing back without that Man City player in front of him.

It's probably suicidal but I'd love to see this:

                Martinez
Cash      Konsa     Mings    Targett
               Luiz    SJM
                 Buendia
Traore       Watkins.       Bailey

Go for broke against United.  Ings, Hause, Sanson, Ramsey (perhaps instead of Buendia) all on the bench and potentially ready to help to change the game. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on September 19, 2021, 05:37:01 PM
			

			

				I don't like Luiz and McGinn sat in front of the back four Steve. They're both useless at it, and look far more effective in a midfield 3. If that means it has to be a 5-3-2 then so be it, but I'd rather go 4-3-3.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on September 19, 2021, 05:42:03 PM
			

			

				Bailey has to start now so that's the main crux of what formation we play. Personally I'd leave Ings out as he really wasn't great in similar game v Chelsea.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on September 19, 2021, 06:49:21 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on September 19, 2021, 05:37:01 PM
I don't like Luiz and McGinn sat in front of the back four Steve. They're both useless at it, and look far more effective in a midfield 3. If that means it has to be a 5-3-2 then so be it, but I'd rather go 4-3-3.

With apologies to cd and LeeB for being a turncoat, after yesterday and last week my new most hated formation is 4-2-3-1. It's neither one thing or the other. We have shown that three (and it must always be three and never five) at the back can work for us.

My gun and my badge have been placed solemnly on the desk.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on September 19, 2021, 07:17:49 PM
			

			

				I agree with Sexual Ealing. 4-2-3-1 is the devil's work.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: DrGonzo on September 19, 2021, 07:29:47 PM
			

			

				Bailey has just recovered from a hamstring injury, has just sustained a quadrucep injury.  Why the arse, oh why, would we be playing him in the 2 bob cup??  

Smith had the foresight to understand his formation wasn't working, he changed it, we scored 3 in 10 minutes.  Let's give hum some credit.  The options are available and he is using them.  Well done.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ian. on September 19, 2021, 08:08:34 PM
			

			

				I agree with SE and Risso, we haven’t got the two right players to sit there for starters and I can’t see how we can leave Ramsey out either.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: hipkiss92 on September 19, 2021, 08:29:38 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on September 19, 2021, 07:17:49 PM
I agree with Sexual Ealing. 4-2-3-1 is the devil's work.

Almost indistinguishable from 433 if you have the right players in midfield and as the number 10
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on September 19, 2021, 09:33:02 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: hipkiss92 on September 19, 2021, 08:29:38 PM
Quote from: Risso on September 19, 2021, 07:17:49 PM
I agree with Sexual Ealing. 4-2-3-1 is the devil's work.

Almost indistinguishable from 433 if you have the right players in midfield and as the number 10

Agreed, but we don't.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ozzjim on September 19, 2021, 11:58:55 PM
			

			

				We went to 4-3-3 for 20 minutes and scored 3, because we had natural width further up the field. The 3 at the back looks shaky as hell to me, Mings and Konsa look like they are always in 2 minds where to push up and press and where to drop in.

For me, 4-1-2-2-1 is the ideal. I think for our players it's the best option. After that, I would sooner play the 3-5-2 than the 4-3-3 that has 2 holding mids as that has proved not to work a number of times, and whenever we try anyone at 10 they look useless.

Smith deserves credit for changing it up and winning the game. I was not sure he would or could, and up to the Cash goal we looked a bit of a shambles, the Grey chance came from us being allnover the place, but the changes worked and we won. Fingers crossed his in game management continues on those lines. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on September 20, 2021, 12:10:47 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: ozzjim on September 19, 2021, 11:58:55 PM
We went to 4-3-3 for 20 minutes and scored 3

The man who decides the formation said that we didn't.

Edit: I'd prefer a 4-3-3.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on September 20, 2021, 12:50:49 AM
			

			

				Agree 100% Oz. 4-5-1 next weekend against the Plastics would be my preference, wing backs are all well and good when you have natural wing backs; we don't, we have two quality full backs. We also have a three great wide men.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: nigel on September 20, 2021, 07:09:37 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: ozzjim on September 19, 2021, 11:58:55 PM
We went to 4-3-3 for 20 minutes and scored 3, because we had natural width further up the field. The 3 at the back looks shaky as hell to me, Mings and Konsa look like they are always in 2 minds where to push up and press and where to drop in.

For me, 4-1-2-2-1 is the ideal. I think for our players it's the best option. After that, I would sooner play the 3-5-2 than the 4-3-3 that has 2 holding mids as that has proved not to work a number of times, and whenever we try anyone at 10 they look useless.

Smith deserves credit for changing it up and winning the game. I was not sure he would or could, and up to the Cash goal we looked a bit of a shambles, the Grey chance came from us being allnover the place, but the changes worked and we won. Fingers crossed his in game management continues on those lines.

No we didn’t, Dean Smith, when asked, said we didn’t.
Certainly for me, and many on here, it was clear from the stands it never changed from 3-5-2
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ian. on September 20, 2021, 07:42:12 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on September 20, 2021, 12:50:49 AM
Agree 100% Oz. 4-5-1 next weekend against the Plastics would be my preference, wing backs are all well and good when you have natural wing backs; we don't, we have two quality full backs. We also have a three great wide men. 

This is the definition of nail on the head. 


			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on September 20, 2021, 07:46:16 AM
			

			

				If it's 4-5-1 I'd go
Martinez
Cash Konsa Mings Targett
Buendia McGinn Ramsey Luiz Bailey
Watkins

Ings can come on for the last 20 minutes when we're 3-0 up.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ian. on September 20, 2021, 07:46:18 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: nigel on September 20, 2021, 07:09:37 AM
Quote from: ozzjim on September 19, 2021, 11:58:55 PM
We went to 4-3-3 for 20 minutes and scored 3, because we had natural width further up the field. The 3 at the back looks shaky as hell to me, Mings and Konsa look like they are always in 2 minds where to push up and press and where to drop in.

For me, 4-1-2-2-1 is the ideal. I think for our players it's the best option. After that, I would sooner play the 3-5-2 than the 4-3-3 that has 2 holding mids as that has proved not to work a number of times, and whenever we try anyone at 10 they look useless.

Smith deserves credit for changing it up and winning the game. I was not sure he would or could, and up to the Cash goal we looked a bit of a shambles, the Grey chance came from us being allnover the place, but the changes worked and we won. Fingers crossed his in game management continues on those lines.

No we didn’t, Dean Smith, when asked, said we didn’t.
Certainly for me, and many on here, it was clear from the stands it never changed from 3-5-2

You know what, I reckon it was a cunning masterplan. We just went rougue
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: JD on September 20, 2021, 08:27:18 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on September 20, 2021, 07:46:16 AM
If it's 4-5-1 I'd go
Martinez
Cash Konsa Mings Targett
Buendia McGinn Ramsey Luiz Bailey
Watkins

Ings can come on for the last 20 minutes when we're 3-0 up.

That's the team I would go with as well, if everyone is fit. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on September 20, 2021, 09:12:51 AM
			

			

				I want to see how Bunedia and Cash develop as a partnership on the right hand side, as I think Buendia will give Cash the sort of support he's never really had from the likes of Traore before.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on September 20, 2021, 09:41:18 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on September 20, 2021, 12:10:47 AM
Quote from: ozzjim on September 19, 2021, 11:58:55 PM
We went to 4-3-3 for 20 minutes and scored 3

The man who decides the formation said that we didn't.


he should have told the players
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: brontebilly on September 20, 2021, 09:43:31 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: nigel on September 20, 2021, 07:09:37 AM
Quote from: ozzjim on September 19, 2021, 11:58:55 PM
We went to 4-3-3 for 20 minutes and scored 3, because we had natural width further up the field. The 3 at the back looks shaky as hell to me, Mings and Konsa look like they are always in 2 minds where to push up and press and where to drop in.

For me, 4-1-2-2-1 is the ideal. I think for our players it's the best option. After that, I would sooner play the 3-5-2 than the 4-3-3 that has 2 holding mids as that has proved not to work a number of times, and whenever we try anyone at 10 they look useless.

Smith deserves credit for changing it up and winning the game. I was not sure he would or could, and up to the Cash goal we looked a bit of a shambles, the Grey chance came from us being allnover the place, but the changes worked and we won. Fingers crossed his in game management continues on those lines.

No we didn’t, Dean Smith, when asked, said we didn’t.
Certainly for me, and many on here, it was clear from the stands it never changed from 3-5-2

That's true but one half hearted jog back towards his goal aside I doubt Bailey ran backwards again. Mings was kind of in no man's land too so effectively we were playing with noone there until Young came in. It caught Benitez and Everton out but I don't think it's a tactic we should be repeating too often. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: cdbearsfan on September 20, 2021, 09:44:03 AM
			

			

				Quite glad the players ignored him tbh, seeing as we scored zero goals playing Dean's formation and three goals when we didn't.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Chris Smith on September 20, 2021, 10:36:13 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: brontebilly on September 20, 2021, 09:43:31 AM
Quote from: nigel on September 20, 2021, 07:09:37 AM
Quote from: ozzjim on September 19, 2021, 11:58:55 PM
We went to 4-3-3 for 20 minutes and scored 3, because we had natural width further up the field. The 3 at the back looks shaky as hell to me, Mings and Konsa look like they are always in 2 minds where to push up and press and where to drop in.

For me, 4-1-2-2-1 is the ideal. I think for our players it's the best option. After that, I would sooner play the 3-5-2 than the 4-3-3 that has 2 holding mids as that has proved not to work a number of times, and whenever we try anyone at 10 they look useless.

Smith deserves credit for changing it up and winning the game. I was not sure he would or could, and up to the Cash goal we looked a bit of a shambles, the Grey chance came from us being allnover the place, but the changes worked and we won. Fingers crossed his in game management continues on those lines.

No we didn’t, Dean Smith, when asked, said we didn’t.
Certainly for me, and many on here, it was clear from the stands it never changed from 3-5-2

That's true but one half hearted jog back towards his goal aside I doubt Bailey ran backwards again. Mings was kind of in no man's land too so effectively we were playing with noone there until Young came in. It caught Benitez and Everton out but I don't think it's a tactic we should be repeating too often. 

He didn’t need to track back, they appeared to give up on that side of the pitch which is why Bailey had so much room and Mings was able to cover on his own.


			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Chris Smith on September 20, 2021, 10:42:19 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on September 20, 2021, 09:44:03 AM
Quite glad the players ignored him tbh, seeing as we scored zero goals playing Dean's formation and three goals when we didn't.

They didn’t.

The whole point of 352 is to try to get additional players into the opposition half. It’s why the substitute was initially Bailey and not Young as we were being allowed so much space down that side. 

I am pleased that we now have the players to be less predictable in how we line up after being so dependent on one player over recent years.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on September 20, 2021, 12:40:42 PM
			

			

				for me the key to beating Man U is to get their defence turned and put pressure on them int the centre of the park. For that reason it's the perfect game to try

             Martinez
Cash  Konsa    Mings  Targett
  Luiz    Nakamba   Ramsey
                 Ings
   Watkins            Bailey

So 433 but with Ings slightly deeper between the defence and midfield and Watkins and Bailey starting wider (and swapping sides) to either pull the full backs in or centre backs out. The 3 in midfield for us means we have support for our full backs when they attack (because the 3 behind Ronaldo tend to target the same areas as I mentioned above).
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: cdbearsfan on September 20, 2021, 12:50:42 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Chris Smith on September 20, 2021, 10:42:19 AM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on September 20, 2021, 09:44:03 AM
Quite glad the players ignored him tbh, seeing as we scored zero goals playing Dean's formation and three goals when we didn't.

They didn’t.

The whole point of 352 is to try to get additional players into the opposition half. It’s why the substitute was initially Bailey and not Young as we were being allowed so much space down that side. 

I am pleased that we now have the players to be less predictable in how we line up after being so dependent on one player over recent years.

See what you want to see. If you think Bailey was a wingback, I can't convince you otherwise.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: LeeB on September 20, 2021, 12:53:25 PM
			

			

				Players were popping up all over the pitch in that last half hour, it was total football.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: WarszaVillan on September 20, 2021, 01:11:06 PM
			

			

				The formation gives a lot of flexibility, that subs don't play exactly the same way as those they replaced doesn't mean the formation was altered. If Targett was playing so far up the field at a time we needed a goal, then replacing him with Bailey shows good insight from Smith and co. Trying to explain it as Smith eventually catching on his formation wasn't working is trying 
Quote from: Chris Smith on September 20, 2021, 10:42:19 AM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on September 20, 2021, 09:44:03 AM
Quite glad the players ignored him tbh, seeing as we scored zero goals playing Dean's formation and three goals when we didn't.

They didn’t.

The whole point of 352 is to try to get additional players into the opposition half. It’s why the substitute was initially Bailey and not Young as we were being allowed so much space down that side. 

I am pleased that we now have the players to be less predictable in how we line up after being so dependent on one player over recent years.

Exactly right and it does seem that the manager now has a lot of options for using different formations and changing personnel. In the last two games I've seen a lot to be positive about. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on September 20, 2021, 01:12:20 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on September 20, 2021, 12:50:42 PM
Quote from: Chris Smith on September 20, 2021, 10:42:19 AM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on September 20, 2021, 09:44:03 AM
Quite glad the players ignored him tbh, seeing as we scored zero goals playing Dean's formation and three goals when we didn't.

They didn’t.

The whole point of 352 is to try to get additional players into the opposition half. It’s why the substitute was initially Bailey and not Young as we were being allowed so much space down that side. 

I am pleased that we now have the players to be less predictable in how we line up after being so dependent on one player over recent years.

See what you want to see. If you think Bailey was a wingback, I can't convince you otherwise.

For me the team shape when he came on was not something you can easily put into a little number. It definitely wasn't 352 but it wasn't a back 4 either. It was something like this:

https://www.buildlineup.com/shared/61487a2bd998900ebe440038

Bailey was playing almost as high up the pitch as Watkins but Mings definitely didn't go to left back and Cash didn't change position from wing back. I think part of the reason it worked was because it confused the fuck out of them as to who they were supposed to be marking.


			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Brend'Watkins on September 20, 2021, 01:23:49 PM
			

			

				Dean Smith gave him the brief to go and do what he does. That’s pretty much like saying do what you want. Bailey is not a wing back, he’s a forward and something of a maverick based on that cameo.  Against ManU we’ll have more of an idea of what kind of player he is.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: nigel on September 20, 2021, 07:09:45 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on September 20, 2021, 12:50:42 PM
Quote from: Chris Smith on September 20, 2021, 10:42:19 AM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on September 20, 2021, 09:44:03 AM
Quite glad the players ignored him tbh, seeing as we scored zero goals playing Dean's formation and three goals when we didn't.

They didn’t.

The whole point of 352 is to try to get additional players into the opposition half. It’s why the substitute was initially Bailey and not Young as we were being allowed so much space down that side. 

I am pleased that we now have the players to be less predictable in how we line up after being so dependent on one player over recent years.

See what you want to see. If you think Bailey was a wingback, I can't convince you otherwise.

Likewise. 

You don’t like the 3-5-2, which isn’t a problem, each to there own, but just because you don’t like it you can’t just spin it to suit what you want to see.




			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ian. on September 20, 2021, 07:18:38 PM
			

			

				Whether we can or can’t agree on the system, you have to hand it to Smith for the change in dynamics with the substitution, it was genius and perfect timing. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ozzjim on September 20, 2021, 07:18:40 PM
			

			

				Mings was as left back as left back gets for a good 15 minutes. Bailey was playing left wing. It may not have been the intention, but it was the formation on the pitch. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: RamboandBruno on September 20, 2021, 07:51:02 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: paul_e on September 20, 2021, 12:40:42 PM
for me the key to beating Man U is to get their defence turned and put pressure on them int the centre of the park. For that reason it's the perfect game to try

             Martinez
Cash  Konsa    Mings  Targett
  Luiz    Nakamba   Ramsey
                 Ings
   Watkins            Bailey

So 433 but with Ings slightly deeper between the defence and midfield and Watkins and Bailey starting wider (and swapping sides) to either pull the full backs in or centre backs out. The 3 in midfield for us means we have support for our full backs when they attack (because the 3 behind Ronaldo tend to target the same areas as I mentioned above).

Id go with that, apart from mcginn for nakamba if he’s fit enough to play. 

As a complete aside, as we were hammering Everton on Saturday, it was exactly 3 years ago that we were beating Rotherham 2-0, the team that night;
Nyland
Elmo
Chester
Jedinak
Hutton

El Ghazi
Mcginn
Hourihane
Grealish
Bolasie

Abraham. 

That defence! Weve come a long way in those 3 years!
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: eamonn on September 20, 2021, 08:31:40 PM
			

			

				Harsh on Chezzie, we fcuked-up his career. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Aldridge Villa on September 20, 2021, 09:22:57 PM
			

			

				Harsh on all the defence 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: RamboandBruno on September 20, 2021, 09:39:11 PM
			

			

				They all did a fantastic job for us, just imagining them here and now playing the opposition we have to play week in week out. Unfair comparison i suppose, we just seem to have travelled far in 3 years imo. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: cdbearsfan on September 20, 2021, 09:45:34 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: ozzjim on September 20, 2021, 07:18:40 PM
Mings was as left back as left back gets for a good 15 minutes. Bailey was playing left wing. It may not have been the intention, but it was the formation on the pitch.

Exactly.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ads on September 20, 2021, 10:04:38 PM
			

			

				He wasn't at all. Both outside centre halves were tasked with stepping out of defence second half and both wing backs were 15 yards higher up the pitch.

Mings did not occupy a full back spot. The general defensive did not change when Bailey came on.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: brontebilly on September 20, 2021, 11:10:23 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: RamboandBruno on September 20, 2021, 07:51:02 PM
Quote from: paul_e on September 20, 2021, 12:40:42 PM
for me the key to beating Man U is to get their defence turned and put pressure on them int the centre of the park. For that reason it's the perfect game to try

             Martinez
Cash  Konsa    Mings  Targett
  Luiz    Nakamba   Ramsey
                 Ings
   Watkins            Bailey

So 433 but with Ings slightly deeper between the defence and midfield and Watkins and Bailey starting wider (and swapping sides) to either pull the full backs in or centre backs out. The 3 in midfield for us means we have support for our full backs when they attack (because the 3 behind Ronaldo tend to target the same areas as I mentioned above).

Id go with that, apart from mcginn for nakamba if he’s fit enough to play. 

As a complete aside, as we were hammering Everton on Saturday, it was exactly 3 years ago that we were beating Rotherham 2-0, the team that night;
Nyland
Elmo
Chester
Jedinak
Hutton

El Ghazi
Mcginn
Hourihane
Grealish
Bolasie

Abraham. 

That defence! Weve come a long way in those 3 years!

Bruce giving it the big one afterwards, that we were all mugs and that Jedinak could play centre back! 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Monty on September 20, 2021, 11:16:52 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Ads on September 20, 2021, 10:04:38 PM
He wasn't at all. Both outside centre halves were tasked with stepping out of defence second half and both wing backs were 15 yards higher up the pitch.

Mings did not occupy a full back spot. The general defensive did not change when Bailey came on.

See I thought it looked like a back four, not least because Mings started taking throw-ins. I guess however what happened was that, now further up the pitch and already wide when we got the ball, him taking throws quickly so Bailey could remain a threat on the pitch made sense.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Percy McCarthy on September 21, 2021, 01:04:33 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on September 20, 2021, 09:45:34 PM
Quote from: ozzjim on September 20, 2021, 07:18:40 PM
Mings was as left back as left back gets for a good 15 minutes. Bailey was playing left wing. It may not have been the intention, but it was the formation on the pitch.

Exactly.

So if Mings went to left back and Konsa went to right back, who were the two centre-halves in this imaginary back four?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ian. on September 21, 2021, 06:24:29 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Percy McCarthy on September 21, 2021, 01:04:33 AM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on September 20, 2021, 09:45:34 PM
Quote from: ozzjim on September 20, 2021, 07:18:40 PM
Mings was as left back as left back gets for a good 15 minutes. Bailey was playing left wing. It may not have been the intention, but it was the formation on the pitch.

Exactly.

So if Mings went to left back and Konsa went to right back, who were the two centre-halves in this imaginary back four?
Martinez pushed up one, sat alongside Axel.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Vegas on September 21, 2021, 06:39:31 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Percy McCarthy on September 21, 2021, 01:04:33 AM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on September 20, 2021, 09:45:34 PM
Quote from: ozzjim on September 20, 2021, 07:18:40 PM
Mings was as left back as left back gets for a good 15 minutes. Bailey was playing left wing. It may not have been the intention, but it was the formation on the pitch.

Exactly.

So if Mings went to left back and Konsa went to right back, who were the two centre-halves in this imaginary back four?


This is a bizarre debate. To me it looked really clearly like we kept the same basic formation, pushed the wing backs slightly higher, and therefore the back 3 spread slightly wider. And that’s also what the manager said we did.

Could it be the case that some people are so keen for their formation to work that they see it when it’s not even being played?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: nigel on September 21, 2021, 06:52:25 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Percy McCarthy on September 21, 2021, 01:04:33 AM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on September 20, 2021, 09:45:34 PM
Quote from: ozzjim on September 20, 2021, 07:18:40 PM
Mings was as left back as left back gets for a good 15 minutes. Bailey was playing left wing. It may not have been the intention, but it was the formation on the pitch.

Exactly.

So if Mings went to left back and Konsa went to right back, who were the two centre-halves in this imaginary back four?

Exactly.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ozzjim on September 21, 2021, 09:40:15 AM
			

			

				Konsa didn't though. Cash just stayed higher and left space in behind, and Ings popped up on the right a lot more. Mings very obviously came across to the left, and the commentary on the box when I watched it back made a number of comments about him playing there. It may not have been the intention but it was definitely the result. Bailey was as close to a left wing back as I am being skinny. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: WarszaVillan on September 21, 2021, 10:16:48 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: ozzjim on September 21, 2021, 09:40:15 AM
Konsa didn't though. Cash just stayed higher and left space in behind, and Ings popped up on the right a lot more. Mings very obviously came across to the left, and the commentary on the box when I watched it back made a number of comments about him playing there. It may not have been the intention but it was definitely the result. Bailey was as close to a left wing back as I am being skinny. 

So they stretched out the back three, kept the wider players pushed forward and went for it with Bailey on instead of Targett. Anyway, the fact we can't agree on this shows that we now have much more flexibility in our play, formations can be tweaked in games and we have a squad now that allows us to make substitutions that can turn games. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on September 21, 2021, 10:36:42 AM
			

			

				We can all be unhappy / happy because our preferred formations weren't / were used. Great. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Lastfootstamper on September 21, 2021, 10:39:49 AM
			

			

				At no ******* point on ******** Saturday did we ******* have a ******* back ******* four. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on September 21, 2021, 10:41:29 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on September 21, 2021, 10:39:49 AM
At no ******* point on ******** Saturday did we ******* have a ******* back ******* four.

You've made a good ******* point. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Monty on September 21, 2021, 10:42:15 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Drummond on September 21, 2021, 10:36:42 AM
We can all be unhappy / happy because our preferred formations weren't / were used. Great. 

Ha exactly. For me the big news is that Dean, after all the (often justified) criticism he's copped for his game management, changed something and it worked, whatever it was. And against a canny old game-manager in Benitez too. This is all good news.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: chrisw1 on September 21, 2021, 10:50:08 AM
			

			

				When Bailey was on and Everton had the ball it looked more like a back 4 as Cash retreated more than Bailey and Mings stayed quite wide.  I'm surprised it's such a controversial issue tbh. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: AV82EC on September 21, 2021, 10:53:47 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: chrisw1 on September 21, 2021, 10:50:08 AM
When Bailey was on and Everton had the ball it looked more like a back 4 as Cash retreated more than Bailey and Mings stayed quite wide.  I'm surprised it's such a controversial issue tbh.

We won 3-0, the rest is just noise. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on September 21, 2021, 10:57:26 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: chrisw1 on September 21, 2021, 10:50:08 AM
When Bailey was on and Everton had the ball it looked more like a back 4 as Cash retreated more than Bailey and Mings stayed quite wide.  I'm surprised it's such a controversial issue tbh.

If we all agreed, this place wouldn't be what it is.... And let's face it, there's not much else to argue/moan about! Which is nice.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on September 21, 2021, 11:12:51 AM
			

			

				In the first half the three centre backs were definitely spread across in a line and the two fullbacks pushed right forward as wingbacks can’t say for all the time but for much of the time in that first half
So it was defo a 352

Can’t say I’m a big fan of it but that’s the way it is
I still maintain it’s more about players rather than formations so as soon as you bring Bailey on for one of the fullbacks
no matter what position you think he plays in we are going to be a more positive attacking force

My point is why wait an hour Before trying to win the game
I know it’s a Southgate template leaving all your attacking players on the bench to bring on after an hour and obviously that has worked for him and it did for us against Everton
But is that the way to go say against Chelsea tomorrow or Man United if it goes wrong you’re then bringing them on when we’re already two nil down the game is gone 
It’s a dilemma






			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Monty on September 21, 2021, 11:14:47 AM
			

			

				John, I think the Southgate point can be left aside. Nobody at club level seriously takes their cues from Southgate - he takes his from them, from people like Conte etc.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on September 21, 2021, 11:23:55 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Monty on September 21, 2021, 11:14:47 AM
John, I think the Southgate point can be left aside. Nobody at club level seriously takes their cues from Southgate - he takes his from them, from people like Conte etc.

I know but there still is similarities whether we like it or not

And those similarities are very simple England and Villa are blessed with creative and attacking talent
So we had Buendia Bailey El ghazi Traore On the bench
After the first sub we had three Central defenders 2 full backs and a holding midfield Player (Nakamba)
With all those creative place still sitting on the bench

That is an absolute 100% fact unarguable you can put your head in the sand all you like and pretend otherwise but the game was turned on its head when he used one of those players exactly the same as Southgate did in the Euros

So I’m sorry but the similarity is there whether you like it or not
I’m not saying it’s an exact copy I’m saying it’s a similar tactic, Southgate uses 2 holding midfielders so there is a difference but like I keep saying it’s not always about formations it’s about players
Keeping your creative attacking players on the bench for an hour is a tactic used by Smith and Southgate over the last couple of games

Will it turn into the tactic of choice I’ve no idea




			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Monty on September 21, 2021, 11:28:50 AM
			

			

				Southgate sits deep and waits for the counter, we step up and squeeze the space in the middle, it's a very different way of playing. It's like Mourinho and Guardiola both like 4-3-3, but they use it completely differently - and anyway, Southgate uses 3-4-3, we use 3-5-2, two central strikers and three midfielders to strangle the opposition and make forward runs rather than two, sitting deep, just blocking. And when Southgate wants to make the change, it's never to make a wing back into virtually an out-and-out winger. That shows you something about how high up he wants them to play, whatever shape they're arranged in.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on September 21, 2021, 11:32:22 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Monty on September 21, 2021, 11:28:50 AM
Southgate sits deep and waits for the counter, we step up and squeeze the space in the middle, it's a very different way of playing. It's like Mourinho and Guardiola both like 4-3-3, but they use it completely differently - and anyway, Southgate uses 3-4-3, we use 3-5-2, two central strikers and three midfielders to strangle the opposition and make forward runs rather than two, sitting deep, just blocking. And when Southgate wants to make the change, it's never to make a wing back into virtually an out-and-out winger. That shows you something about how high up he wants them to play, whatever shape they're arranged in.

You look at formations used
I look at players used

That’s the difference between us
We’ll never agree but that’s the beauty of it all
UTV
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Monty on September 21, 2021, 11:33:25 AM
			

			

				Isn't anyone with eyes looking at both?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: cdbearsfan on September 21, 2021, 11:41:48 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Percy McCarthy on September 21, 2021, 01:04:33 AM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on September 20, 2021, 09:45:34 PM
Quote from: ozzjim on September 20, 2021, 07:18:40 PM
Mings was as left back as left back gets for a good 15 minutes. Bailey was playing left wing. It may not have been the intention, but it was the formation on the pitch.

Exactly.

So if Mings went to left back and Konsa went to right back, who were the two centre-halves in this imaginary back four?

Konsa didn't go to right back. Cash was playing, you might have noticed his goal?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on September 21, 2021, 11:44:03 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Monty on September 21, 2021, 11:33:25 AM
Isn't anyone with eyes looking at both?

Good point
But we end up going round in circles in the end so we obviously differ somewhere

It’s going to be interesting to see what he does in the next couple of games, 
I just have a problem with having the best part of £100 million worth of attacking talent on the bench and leaving it there for an hour hoping to keep it tight not concede then having a go

But like I say we can go round in circles all day long
I haven’t got a caravan to clean but I do have to go out and get some rice for tonights tea 
so Have a good rest of the day





			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ozzjim on September 21, 2021, 01:00:45 PM
			

			

				If that wasn't obviously 4 at the back for a good 15 minutes I'm not sure what you lot were watching. Anyone attempting to make a case that Bailey was anything other than a very advanced wide forward either off their rocker.

I love this argument. Utterly pointless and very entertaining. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ads on September 21, 2021, 01:12:33 PM
			

			

				Shapes are fundamentally defensive anyway. With Rondon going off, they barely occupied us in the final third in any event.

Mings starting point remained the gap between the 6 and 18 Yard line. Smith stated that both Konsa and Mings were pushed wider and instructed to get out.

It was a very cavalier and fluid 3 at the back.

For Baileys goal you had Ings dropping into 10 and Bailey pushing up to the highest point in a wide forward slot. Tough to defend when we're full of confidence and crashing forwards.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Neil Hawkes on September 21, 2021, 01:51:31 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: john e on September 21, 2021, 11:23:55 AM
Quote from: Monty on September 21, 2021, 11:14:47 AM
John, I think the Southgate point can be left aside. Nobody at club level seriously takes their cues from Southgate - he takes his from them, from people like Conte etc.

I know but there still is similarities whether we like it or not

And those similarities are very simple England and Villa are blessed with creative and attacking talent
So we had Buendia Bailey El ghazi Traore On the bench
After the first sub we had three Central defenders 2 full backs and a holding midfield Player (Nakamba)
With all those creative place still sitting on the bench

That is an absolute 100% fact unarguable you can put your head in the sand all you like and pretend otherwise but the game was turned on its head when he used one of those players exactly the same as Southgate did in the Euros

So I’m sorry but the similarity is there whether you like it or not
I’m not saying it’s an exact copy I’m saying it’s a similar tactic, Southgate uses 2 holding midfielders so there is a difference but like I keep saying it’s not always about formations it’s about players
Keeping your creative attacking players on the bench for an hour is a tactic used by Smith and Southgate over the last couple of games

Will it turn into the tactic of choice I’ve no idea
If they where on from the beginning, the opposing manager can bring on subs very early to counter their positive effect, then the element of surprise & tactical change has been lost.
The set up we started with stopped an unbeaten team in their tracks and allowed our management to see where the weaknesses where during the game.
Just a thought.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: CT Villan on September 21, 2021, 01:53:27 PM
			

			

				Does this help the formation debate...

(https://totalfootballanalysis.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/Villa-vs-Everton_page-0003-scaled.jpg)
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on September 21, 2021, 01:54:28 PM
			

			

				It's reminded me to buy a poppy when the time comes.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: nigel on September 21, 2021, 02:16:09 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: CT Villan on September 21, 2021, 01:53:27 PM
Does this help the formation debate...

(https://totalfootballanalysis.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/Villa-vs-Everton_page-0003-scaled.jpg)

Pretty conclusive 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on September 21, 2021, 02:37:51 PM
			

			

				That's pretty much the shape I drew a page or 2 back, I just had Watkins drifting right a bit more than he did.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: chrisw1 on September 21, 2021, 03:28:56 PM
			

			

				It would only really help if there was one for the period whilst Bailey was on, which I think was the spell in question. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Percy McCarthy on September 21, 2021, 03:53:00 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on September 21, 2021, 11:41:48 AM
Quote from: Percy McCarthy on September 21, 2021, 01:04:33 AM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on September 20, 2021, 09:45:34 PM
Quote from: ozzjim on September 20, 2021, 07:18:40 PM
Mings was as left back as left back gets for a good 15 minutes. Bailey was playing left wing. It may not have been the intention, but it was the formation on the pitch.

Exactly.

So if Mings went to left back and Konsa went to right back, who were the two centre-halves in this imaginary back four?

Konsa didn't go to right back. Cash was playing, you might have noticed his goal?

Konsa was playing the same position as Mings, who according to some who imagine we went to a back four, was playing left-back after Bailey came on. 

Of course, anyone with functioning eyes knows they were wide centre-halves in a back three.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ian. on September 21, 2021, 04:25:02 PM
			

			

				So essentially it was five across the back but Bailey and Cash had free licence to push, Mings, Axel and Konsa sat behind.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on September 21, 2021, 04:36:04 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Ian. on September 21, 2021, 04:25:02 PM
So essentially it was five across the back but Bailey and Cash had free licence to push, Mings, Axel and Konsa sat behind.

Bailey wasn't playing as a wing-back, I think that's the point a few people are trying to make. Targett and Cash were genuine wingbacks in a game where we dominated the territory. Bailey came on and played as an out and out winger and we just didn't bother defending on our left. Just before our first we nearly got caught out by it but we held on.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Lastfootstamper on September 21, 2021, 04:38:55 PM
			

			

				I really wish I'd took that photo of the 3-1-4-2 now. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on September 21, 2021, 04:48:19 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on September 21, 2021, 04:38:55 PM
I really wish I'd took that photo of the 3-1-4-2 now. 

It wouldn’t make much difference because during a game it is fluid and different permutations will take place

Players not formations make the difference in how offensive or defensive you are
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: dave.woodhall on September 21, 2021, 04:55:55 PM
			

			

				Does any of this matter? 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on September 21, 2021, 04:56:57 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: dave.woodhall on September 21, 2021, 04:55:55 PM
Does any of this matter? 

We have a winner!
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Monty on September 21, 2021, 05:18:38 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: john e on September 21, 2021, 04:48:19 PM
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on September 21, 2021, 04:38:55 PM
I really wish I'd took that photo of the 3-1-4-2 now. 

It wouldn’t make much difference because during a game it is fluid and different permutations will take place

Players not formations make the difference in how offensive or defensive you are

You can tell them where to be, you know. It's not like every player is magnetically drawn to some area of the pitch. If they're a pro, and you 'stand there', they will.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: pauliewalnuts on September 21, 2021, 05:23:30 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: dave.woodhall on September 21, 2021, 04:55:55 PM
Does any of this matter? 

PRAISE BE TO WOODHALL - THANK FUCK FOR THAT - THANK YOU FOR MAKING IT STOP - 

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Lastfootstamper on September 21, 2021, 05:27:34 PM
			

			

				cd started it 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Tayls_7 on September 21, 2021, 05:38:01 PM
			

			

				(https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/bwPmhN-OCBXqIQQs9feOa88zh1I=/1400x1400/filters:format(jpeg)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/11676283/robocop_1987.jpg)

Your move CD.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ian. on September 21, 2021, 05:54:15 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: paul_e on September 21, 2021, 04:36:04 PM
Quote from: Ian. on September 21, 2021, 04:25:02 PM
So essentially it was five across the back but Bailey and Cash had free licence to push, Mings, Axel and Konsa sat behind.

Bailey wasn't playing as a wing-back, I think that's the point a few people are trying to make. Targett and Cash were genuine wingbacks in a game where we dominated the territory. Bailey came on and played as an out and out winger and we just didn't bother defending on our left. Just before our first we nearly got caught out by it but we held on.

Sorry Paul, I was only taking the piss, thought CD would bite! 

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: RichardBatchelor on September 21, 2021, 06:54:48 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on September 21, 2021, 05:23:30 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on September 21, 2021, 04:55:55 PM
Does any of this matter? 

PRAISE BE TO WOODHALL - THANK FUCK FOR THAT - THANK YOU FOR MAKING IT STOP - 
Agreed, but that said, what about a 2-2-3-1-2? 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: cdbearsfan on September 21, 2021, 06:54:53 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: nigel on September 21, 2021, 02:16:09 PM
Quote from: CT Villan on September 21, 2021, 01:53:27 PM
Does this help the formation debate...

(https://totalfootballanalysis.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/Villa-vs-Everton_page-0003-scaled.jpg)

Pretty conclusive

Yep. Bailey wasn't left back. No need to apologise.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: nigel on September 21, 2021, 08:21:30 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on September 21, 2021, 06:54:53 PM
Quote from: nigel on September 21, 2021, 02:16:09 PM
Quote from: CT Villan on September 21, 2021, 01:53:27 PM
Does this help the formation debate...

(https://totalfootballanalysis.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/Villa-vs-Everton_page-0003-scaled.jpg)

Pretty conclusive

Yep. Bailey wasn't left back. No need to apologise.

Never said he was, as you very well know.
It’s pretty conclusive that we were 3 at the back, which you said never happened, though.
No need to apologise 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: nigel on September 21, 2021, 08:37:15 PM
			

			

				The donkey told the tiger, "The Villa played 5 at the back."

The tiger replied, "No, they played 3 ."

The discussion became heated, and the two decided to submit the issue to arbitration, so they approached the lion.

As they approached the lion on his throne, the donkey started screaming: ′′Your Highness, isn't it true that the Villa played 5 at the back?"

The lion replied: "If you believe it is true, the Villa played 5 at the back"

The donkey rushed forward and continued: ′′The tiger disagrees with me, contradicts me and annoys me. Please punish him."

The king then declared: ′′The tiger will be punished with 3 days of silence."

The donkey jumped with joy and went on his way, content and repeating ′′The Villa played 5 at the back, I’m right, I’m right..."

The tiger asked the lion, "Your Majesty, why have you punished me, after all, we know Villa played 3 at the back?"

The lion replied, ′′You know and saw that Villa played 3 at the back."

The tiger asked, ′′So why do you punish me?"

The lion replied, "That has nothing to do with the question of whether Villa played 5 or 3 at the back. The punishment is because it is degrading for a brave, intelligent creature like you to waste time arguing with an ass, and on top of that, you came and bothered me with that question just to validate something you already knew was true!"

The biggest waste of time is arguing with the fool and fanatic who doesn't care about truth or reality, but only the victory of his beliefs and illusions. Never waste time on discussions that make no sense. There are people who, for all the evidence presented to them, do not have the ability to understand. Others who are blinded by ego, hatred and resentment, and the only thing that they want is to be right even if they aren’t.

When IGNORANCE SCREAMS, intelligence moves on
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Steve67 on September 21, 2021, 08:37:53 PM
			

			

				Didn't Konsa slip across to right back for the last 15 minutes when Cash went off?  Or do I need to apologise too?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: London Villan on September 21, 2021, 08:39:36 PM
			

			

				He did.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on September 21, 2021, 09:24:44 PM
			

			

				Does anyone have a link to a debate about Spurs' finances from 2009? I need something to pep me up after two days of this.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ian. on September 21, 2021, 09:35:17 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on September 21, 2021, 09:24:44 PM
Does anyone have a link to a debate about Spurs' finances from 2009? I need something to pep me up after two days of this.
Who was our resident Spurs accountant? Was is Villadawg or something?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on September 21, 2021, 09:36:24 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Ian. on September 21, 2021, 09:35:17 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on September 21, 2021, 09:24:44 PM
Does anyone have a link to a debate about Spurs' finances from 2009? I need something to pep me up after two days of this.
Who was our resident Spurs accountant? Was is Villadawg or something?

I think so, although there may have been a few others. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ian. on September 21, 2021, 09:46:49 PM
			

			

				Thought so. Why was it such a debate? I do remember it but can’t remember why it was such an interest (to some) here.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: RamboandBruno on September 21, 2021, 09:52:40 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: john e on September 21, 2021, 11:23:55 AM
Quote from: Monty on September 21, 2021, 11:14:47 AM
John, I think the Southgate point can be left aside. Nobody at club level seriously takes their cues from Southgate - he takes his from them, from people like Conte etc.

I know but there still is similarities whether we like it or not

And those similarities are very simple England and Villa are blessed with creative and attacking talent
So we had Buendia Bailey El ghazi Traore On the bench
After the first sub we had three Central defenders 2 full backs and a holding midfield Player (Nakamba)
With all those creative place still sitting on the bench

That is an absolute 100% fact unarguable you can put your head in the sand all you like and pretend otherwise but the game was turned on its head when he used one of those players exactly the same as Southgate did in the Euros

So I’m sorry but the similarity is there whether you like it or not
I’m not saying it’s an exact copy I’m saying it’s a similar tactic, Southgate uses 2 holding midfielders so there is a difference but like I keep saying it’s not always about formations it’s about players
Keeping your creative attacking players on the bench for an hour is a tactic used by Smith and Southgate over the last couple of games

Will it turn into the tactic of choice I’ve no idea

I think we need to judge this when Bailey is fully fit. If and when he is, hopefully by Saturday and Dean for example still leaves him on the bench, in favour of shoehorning in Hause for Tuanzebe, to maintain that shape, then id tend to agree with you, but we’ll see. 

Even if he is to abandon the 352 for certain games, for me the midfield 3 works loads better than mcginn and luiz sitting last year. So for me even when switching to a back four, id rather he kept a 3 in the middle and then an attacking 3, which means theres always going to be 3 of Watkins, Ings, Bailey, Beundia, Traore and El Ghazi on the bench. 

Anything other than the 352 or 433 would leave us to wide open imo. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on September 21, 2021, 10:01:00 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Ian. on September 21, 2021, 09:46:49 PM
Thought so. Why was it such a debate? I do remember it but can’t remember why it was such an interest (to some) here.

Let's not go there!
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: cdbearsfan on September 21, 2021, 10:08:37 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: nigel on September 21, 2021, 08:21:30 PM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on September 21, 2021, 06:54:53 PM
Quote from: nigel on September 21, 2021, 02:16:09 PM
Quote from: CT Villan on September 21, 2021, 01:53:27 PM
Does this help the formation debate...

(https://totalfootballanalysis.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/Villa-vs-Everton_page-0003-scaled.jpg)

Pretty conclusive

Yep. Bailey wasn't left back. No need to apologise.

Never said he was, as you very well know.
It’s pretty conclusive that we were 3 at the back, which you said never happened, though.
No need to apologise

You realise that's based on average position  throughout the whole game, yeah? I never said we didn't play three centre halves. Obviously we played three centre halves for most of it, just not the bit where we scored three goals. It does conclusively prove that we weren't playing 5-3-2 during those moments as had been previously asserted, as there is no way Bailey was full back.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ian. on September 21, 2021, 11:44:06 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on September 21, 2021, 10:01:00 PM
Quote from: Ian. on September 21, 2021, 09:46:49 PM
Thought so. Why was it such a debate? I do remember it but can’t remember why it was such an interest (to some) here.
Ha ha! No quite. 

Let's not go there!

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: eamonn on September 22, 2021, 12:18:18 AM
			

			

				Hope Villadawg is ok. He and Danlanza probably unlikely buddies by a pool now discussing where it went wrong with H&V.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Brazilian Villain on September 22, 2021, 12:23:08 AM
			

			

				I'd imagine danlanza's thoughts on the origin of Covid and its vaccines might be interesting.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: tomd2103 on September 22, 2021, 01:17:41 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on September 21, 2021, 10:08:37 PM
Quote from: nigel on September 21, 2021, 08:21:30 PM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on September 21, 2021, 06:54:53 PM
Quote from: nigel on September 21, 2021, 02:16:09 PM
Quote from: CT Villan on September 21, 2021, 01:53:27 PM
Does this help the formation debate...

(https://totalfootballanalysis.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/Villa-vs-Everton_page-0003-scaled.jpg)

Pretty conclusive

Yep. Bailey wasn't left back. No need to apologise.

Never said he was, as you very well know.
It’s pretty conclusive that we were 3 at the back, which you said never happened, though.
No need to apologise

You realise that's based on average position  throughout the whole game, yeah? I never said we didn't play three centre halves. Obviously we played three centre halves for most of it, just not the bit where we scored three goals. It does conclusively prove that we weren't playing 5-3-2 during those moments as had been previously asserted, as there is no way Bailey was full back.

I think you have to be bold as a manager to stop a 3-5-2 becoming a 5-3-2.  If the opposition line up with 3 attackers, then you have to trust the 3 CBs to deal with them.  This allows the wing-backs to push further on into space.

Where it goes horribly wrong for me is when the wing-backs drop back and pick up the wide players and it becomes a flat back five with three centre halves marking one forward.  Having flashbacks of Paul Lambert's attempts at setting up like that with a back three of Herd, Baker and Clark.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Vegas on September 22, 2021, 06:58:02 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on September 21, 2021, 06:54:53 PM
Quote from: nigel on September 21, 2021, 02:16:09 PM
Quote from: CT Villan on September 21, 2021, 01:53:27 PM
Does this help the formation debate...

(https://totalfootballanalysis.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/Villa-vs-Everton_page-0003-scaled.jpg)

Pretty conclusive

Yep. Bailey wasn't left back. No need to apologise.

Sorry I’m not quite following who is saying what here, but are you saying this chat offers conclusive proof that Bailey played a different position to Targett and Young?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on September 22, 2021, 07:27:11 AM
			

			

				Well yes, the chart shows average positions, cash and targett are in expected positions of being level with Nakamba.

Bailey is 10-15 yards higher with only Watkins consistently higher up the pitch than him.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on September 22, 2021, 08:56:41 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: paul_e on September 22, 2021, 07:27:11 AM
Well yes, the chart shows average positions, cash and targett are in expected positions of being level with Nakamba.

Bailey is 10-15 yards higher with only Watkins consistently higher up the pitch than him.
obviously the charts are unreliable because Dean Smith said so.

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: pauliewalnuts on September 22, 2021, 11:33:24 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Brazilian Villain on September 22, 2021, 12:23:08 AM
I'd imagine danlanza's thoughts on the origin of Covid and its vaccines might be interesting.

Ha ha, I bet they are too.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Vegas on September 22, 2021, 11:39:59 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: paul_e on September 22, 2021, 07:27:11 AM
Well yes, the chart shows average positions, cash and targett are in expected positions of being level with Nakamba.

Bailey is 10-15 yards higher with only Watkins consistently higher up the pitch than him.

Hmmm. Ok then. Let’s leave it :)
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ian. on September 22, 2021, 12:55:01 PM
			

			

				Is it safe to look here yet?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on September 22, 2021, 12:57:21 PM
			

			

				Doesn't look like it, Ian.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ian. on September 22, 2021, 01:16:07 PM
			

			

				Back to off topic then! 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Monty on September 22, 2021, 01:17:56 PM
			

			

				Must admit even I'm bored of it by now. Arguing over insufficient data, it's like trying to make a sandwich with no bread.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on September 22, 2021, 01:21:34 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Monty on September 22, 2021, 01:17:56 PM
Must admit even I'm bored of it by now. Arguing over insufficient data, it's like trying to make a sandwich with no bread.

Would it be a proper sandwich, with two slices of bread, or one of those stodgy overthought club sandwiches with an unnecessary third slice in the middle that, sure, absorbs mayonnaise, but blunts the kick of your sriracha when you really need it?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: RamboandBruno on September 22, 2021, 01:42:56 PM
			

			

				2 slices of bread, 4 fillings, 2 extras for added spice….or maybe it should be 4 slices of bread a d two fillings 🙄
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on September 22, 2021, 01:53:44 PM
			

			

				I'm not arguing with anyone, my only point is that Bailey came on and played as an out and out left winger, it was obvious to the naked eye watching the game live and every analysis you can find on line backs it up. That has no bearing on the formation or how the defence was lined up.

I see it as a massive positive for Smith that, in a game where we were dominating territory but not creating enough, he took decisive action and put a very attacking player on for a defensive player and it changed the game. I don't care massively about formations, I'm more interested in how players move around the pitch and how we respond to the teams we're facing.

For example Godfrey was never going to offer them anything in our half so we pushed up on his side and pinned him back but we were more cautious against Digne who has much more threat but we also used that to our advantage by getting Cash to run in behind him from deep and use the pace advantage he had to open them up on that side, our first goal came directly from doing exactly that. We clearly had a well structured game plan because we were regularly out-numbering them all over the pitch.

Smith and the coaches all get a big thumbs up from me for this game even if I didn't like the starting line-up on paper.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Monty on September 22, 2021, 01:55:18 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on September 22, 2021, 01:21:34 PM
Quote from: Monty on September 22, 2021, 01:17:56 PM
Must admit even I'm bored of it by now. Arguing over insufficient data, it's like trying to make a sandwich with no bread.

Would it be a proper sandwich, with two slices of bread, or one of those stodgy overthought club sandwiches with an unnecessary third slice in the middle that, sure, absorbs mayonnaise, but blunts the kick of your sriracha when you really need it?

I do mean a proper sandwich. That weirdo extra slice in the middle thing does nothing for me I must say. Reminds me of a friend at uni who would, whenever deadlines approached, eat bread rolls 'filled' with a potato scone in increasing desperation.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on September 22, 2021, 02:17:13 PM
			

			

				Growing up when hard times came we had crisp sandwiches, sauce sandwiches, sugar sandwiches
(cue Monty Python sketch)

Don’t know they’re born nowadays








			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on September 22, 2021, 02:43:17 PM
			

			

				Crisp sandwiches have always weirded me out, I've never understood the appeal, like 3 centre backs, i know some people like it but I don't know why. I need a smiley thing now.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on September 22, 2021, 03:01:44 PM
			

			

				Walkers Smoky Bacon crisps on a Dairylea sandwich.... mmmmm
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: LeeB on September 22, 2021, 03:04:10 PM
			

			

				Ooh, no Dairylea thanks, Primula only.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Monty on September 22, 2021, 03:05:34 PM
			

			

				I get the theory, but the satisfaction of the initial crunch always gives way to the chronic dissatisfaction of crisp shrapnel getting stuck in your teeth.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on September 22, 2021, 03:06:44 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: LeeB on September 22, 2021, 03:04:10 PM
Ooh, no Dairylea thanks, Primula only.

Primula? That's what people in caravans eat. Dairylea is the food of the gods.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: KNVillan on September 22, 2021, 03:08:41 PM
			

			

				No, I prefer Walkers Smoky Bacon crisps on a Corned Beef & Piccalilli sandwich....
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on September 22, 2021, 03:08:52 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on September 22, 2021, 03:06:44 PM
Quote from: LeeB on September 22, 2021, 03:04:10 PM
Ooh, no Dairylea thanks, Primula only.

Primula? That's what people in caravans eat. Dairylea is the food of the gods.

I knew you weren't that bad.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on September 22, 2021, 03:08:59 PM
			

			

				I always preferred laughing cow
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Percy McCarthy on September 22, 2021, 03:47:25 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on September 22, 2021, 01:21:34 PM
Quote from: Monty on September 22, 2021, 01:17:56 PM
Must admit even I'm bored of it by now. Arguing over insufficient data, it's like trying to make a sandwich with no bread.

Would it be a proper sandwich, with two slices of bread, or one of those stodgy overthought club sandwiches with an unnecessary third slice in the middle that, sure, absorbs mayonnaise, but blunts the kick of your sriracha when you really need it?

How the fuck were you ever a Leaver?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ian. on September 22, 2021, 03:51:21 PM
			

			

				My wife when she was young was fed tomato sauce or salad creme sandwiches when time were tight. 
My mom would just give me nutty butter or jam sandwiches everyday, but I'm posher than my wife!
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Toronto Villa on September 22, 2021, 03:57:04 PM
			

			

				a warm thick soft bread, a nice layer of your favourite cheese with an ample dose of a crunchy salt and vinegar crisps
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Percy McCarthy on September 22, 2021, 04:22:15 PM
			

			

				Cheese sandwich with cheese and onion crisps, lovely. As a remainer, no Warburtons. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on September 22, 2021, 04:43:40 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Percy McCarthy on September 22, 2021, 03:47:25 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on September 22, 2021, 01:21:34 PM
Quote from: Monty on September 22, 2021, 01:17:56 PM
Must admit even I'm bored of it by now. Arguing over insufficient data, it's like trying to make a sandwich with no bread.

Would it be a proper sandwich, with two slices of bread, or one of those stodgy overthought club sandwiches with an unnecessary third slice in the middle that, sure, absorbs mayonnaise, but blunts the kick of your sriracha when you really need it?

How the fuck were you ever a Leaver?

I've repented long and hard.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on September 22, 2021, 05:16:35 PM
			

			

				It's Warburton's or nowt in our house. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: algy on September 22, 2021, 05:21:16 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Toronto Villa on September 22, 2021, 03:57:04 PM
a warm thick soft bread, a nice layer of your favourite cheese with an ample dose of a crunchy salt and vinegar crisps
I approve of this sandwich combination.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Percy McCarthy on September 22, 2021, 05:40:25 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on September 22, 2021, 05:16:35 PM
It's Warburton's or nowt in our house.

Haha! It would be.

Not gonna tell you who else I’m boycotting as you have a bit more spending power than me.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on September 22, 2021, 05:41:20 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on September 22, 2021, 04:43:40 PM
Quote from: Percy McCarthy on September 22, 2021, 03:47:25 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on September 22, 2021, 01:21:34 PM
Quote from: Monty on September 22, 2021, 01:17:56 PM
Must admit even I'm bored of it by now. Arguing over insufficient data, it's like trying to make a sandwich with no bread.

Would it be a proper sandwich, with two slices of bread, or one of those stodgy overthought club sandwiches with an unnecessary third slice in the middle that, sure, absorbs mayonnaise, but blunts the kick of your sriracha when you really need it?

How the fuck were you ever a Leaver?

I've repented long and hard.

As a person in the internet who has actually changed their mind (and admitted it) you are to be treasured. You’re not to blame.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Percy McCarthy on September 22, 2021, 06:14:52 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Woofles The Wonder Dog on September 22, 2021, 05:41:20 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on September 22, 2021, 04:43:40 PM
Quote from: Percy McCarthy on September 22, 2021, 03:47:25 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on September 22, 2021, 01:21:34 PM
Quote from: Monty on September 22, 2021, 01:17:56 PM
Must admit even I'm bored of it by now. Arguing over insufficient data, it's like trying to make a sandwich with no bread.

Would it be a proper sandwich, with two slices of bread, or one of those stodgy overthought club sandwiches with an unnecessary third slice in the middle that, sure, absorbs mayonnaise, but blunts the kick of your sriracha when you really need it?

How the fuck were you ever a Leaver?

I've repented long and hard.

As a person in the internet who has actually changed their mind (and admitted it) you are to be treasured. You’re not to blame.

Well, he kind of is, but I still treasure him.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Monty on September 22, 2021, 06:17:22 PM
			

			

				Being wrong sometimes (or often) is just one of the risks in thinking for yourself.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on September 22, 2021, 06:20:04 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Percy McCarthy on September 22, 2021, 05:40:25 PM
Quote from: Risso on September 22, 2021, 05:16:35 PM
It's Warburton's or nowt in our house.

Haha! It would be.

Not gonna tell you who else I’m boycotting as you have a bit more spending power than me.

Nothing to do with politics or anything mate, the missus is from Bolton.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on September 22, 2021, 10:58:49 PM
			

			

				Woofles, Percy, Monty, you are too kind.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: pauliewalnuts on September 22, 2021, 11:15:52 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Ian. on September 22, 2021, 03:51:21 PM
My wife when she was young was fed tomato sauce or salad creme sandwiches when time were tight. 

We used to get crisp sandwiches.

We weren't poor. My mom was just really fucking lazy.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Percy McCarthy on September 23, 2021, 03:04:54 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on September 22, 2021, 06:20:04 PM
Quote from: Percy McCarthy on September 22, 2021, 05:40:25 PM
Quote from: Risso on September 22, 2021, 05:16:35 PM
It's Warburton's or nowt in our house.

Haha! It would be.

Not gonna tell you who else I’m boycotting as you have a bit more spending power than me.

Nothing to do with politics or anything mate, the missus is from Bolton.

Fair play to her and her local pride.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Percy McCarthy on September 23, 2021, 03:06:16 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on September 22, 2021, 10:58:49 PM
Woofles, Percy, Monty, you are too kind.

I was a lexiter too mate, I just changed my mind before the vote.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Meanwood Villa on September 23, 2021, 09:15:20 AM
			

			

				As a lifetime member of the Dean Smith appreciation society it pains me to say that his approach to the cups is starting to piss me off. We know what he will do in the third round of the FA cup already. It leaves too much to chance and doesn't represent a serious attempt to win honours. I don't care that everyone else does it, if anything that is even more reason to buck the trend. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: London Villan on September 23, 2021, 09:18:50 AM
			

			

				I tend to agree - if we'd have gone full strength we'd have won last night.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ads on September 23, 2021, 09:20:17 AM
			

			

				We still had plenty of opportunities to have won last night. Archer being through twice first half, the Buendia chance, JPB chance and perhaps the biggest when El Ghazi shot instead of squaring to an unmarked Archer who was 6 yards out.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: dave.woodhall on September 23, 2021, 09:20:46 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: London Villan on September 23, 2021, 09:18:50 AM
I tend to agree - if we'd have gone full strength we'd have won last night.

If they'd gone full strength we'd have lost. Ifs, buts, maybes. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Meanwood Villa on September 23, 2021, 09:22:01 AM
			

			

				What actually happened last night is irrelevant to some extent. We could have played the first eleven and lost. It's the general approach. As I say, it leaves too much to chance. We got to the cup final in 2020 of course but that involved games against two clubs who played even weaker teams than us. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: London Villan on September 23, 2021, 09:22:30 AM
			

			

				Very true, but they were less likely to go full strength playing Man City at the weekend.

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on September 23, 2021, 09:45:35 AM
			

			

				I just can’t shake the feeling that a couple of older heads on the bench and we’d have gone through last night. I really enjoyed the match and am immensely proud of the lads, but it still feels a bit like a missed opportunity. Impossible to prove one way or the other I suppose, but I’m not much of a fan of heroic failure.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Mister E on September 23, 2021, 09:54:02 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on September 23, 2021, 09:45:35 AM
I just can’t shake the feeling that a couple of older heads on the bench and we’d have gone through last night. I really enjoyed the match and am immensely proud of the lads, but it still feels a bit like a missed opportunity. Impossible to prove one way or the other I suppose, but I’m not much of a fan of heroic failure.
This is where I am. A couple of different subs available to us could have made a big difference.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on September 23, 2021, 10:04:03 AM
			

			

				Absolutely terrific night
The team were fantastic, Proud to be Villa last night

But I do agree with others Tuchel wanted it more than Smith and that is difficult to write when our team haven’t won anything for 25 years
Who knows what would have happened either way
But the simple truth is Tuchel wanted it more because he put his bigger hitters on the bench just in case, where ours were sitting at home tickling their balls

Yes they have a bigger squad but he didn’t put squad members on the bench he put his biggest stars
When you think that the carabao cup must be a long way down the list of priorities for Chelsea I think Smith must learn here
Tuchel is an absolute ruthless winner that’s the difference






			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on September 23, 2021, 10:07:42 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: john e on September 23, 2021, 10:04:03 AM
 Tuchel wanted it more than Smith 

What's your evidence for that bizarre claim? 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on September 23, 2021, 10:08:40 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Drummond on September 23, 2021, 10:07:42 AM
Quote from: john e on September 23, 2021, 10:04:03 AM
 Tuchel wanted it more than Smith 

What's your evidence for that bizarre claim? 

literally just put that in the post

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: sickbeggar on September 23, 2021, 10:09:00 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: john e on September 23, 2021, 10:04:03 AM
Absolutely terrific night
The team were fantastic, Proud to be Villa last night

But I do agree with others Tuchel wanted it more than Smith and that is difficult to write when our team haven’t won anything for 25 years
Who knows what would have happened either way
But the simple truth is Tuchel wanted it more because he put his bigger hitters on the bench just in case, where ours were sitting at home tickling their balls

Yes they have a bigger squad but he didn’t put squad members on the bench he put his biggest stars
When you think that the carabao cup must be a long way down the list of priorities for Chelsea I think Smith must learn here
Tuchel is an absolute ruthless winner that’s the difference

yeah, I had no problem with Archer starting but if Chelsea can risk Lukaku for 15 minutes at the end of the game before Man City this weekend, then you'd think we'd have the option of Wakins or Ings to come off the bench for 15 mins
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: pauliewalnuts on September 23, 2021, 10:14:53 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: sickbeggar on September 23, 2021, 10:09:00 AM
Quote from: john e on September 23, 2021, 10:04:03 AM
Absolutely terrific night
The team were fantastic, Proud to be Villa last night

But I do agree with others Tuchel wanted it more than Smith and that is difficult to write when our team haven’t won anything for 25 years
Who knows what would have happened either way
But the simple truth is Tuchel wanted it more because he put his bigger hitters on the bench just in case, where ours were sitting at home tickling their balls

Yes they have a bigger squad but he didn’t put squad members on the bench he put his biggest stars
When you think that the carabao cup must be a long way down the list of priorities for Chelsea I think Smith must learn here
Tuchel is an absolute ruthless winner that’s the difference

yeah, I had no problem with Archer starting but if Chelsea can risk Lukaku for 15 minutes at the end of the game before Man City this weekend, then you'd think we'd have the option of Wakins or Ings to come off the bench for 15 mins

If he'd done that and they'd pick up a knock, he'd have got crucified for it.

There's an element of 'can't win' to this type of situation for clubs in our position.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: sickbeggar on September 23, 2021, 10:21:08 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on September 23, 2021, 10:14:53 AM
Quote from: sickbeggar on September 23, 2021, 10:09:00 AM
Quote from: john e on September 23, 2021, 10:04:03 AM
Absolutely terrific night
The team were fantastic, Proud to be Villa last night

But I do agree with others Tuchel wanted it more than Smith and that is difficult to write when our team haven’t won anything for 25 years
Who knows what would have happened either way
But the simple truth is Tuchel wanted it more because he put his bigger hitters on the bench just in case, where ours were sitting at home tickling their balls

Yes they have a bigger squad but he didn’t put squad members on the bench he put his biggest stars
When you think that the carabao cup must be a long way down the list of priorities for Chelsea I think Smith must learn here
Tuchel is an absolute ruthless winner that’s the difference

yeah, I had no problem with Archer starting but if Chelsea can risk Lukaku for 15 minutes at the end of the game before Man City this weekend, then you'd think we'd have the option of Wakins or Ings to come off the bench for 15 mins

If he'd done that and they'd pick up a knock, he'd have got crucified for it.

There's an element of 'can't win' to this type of situation for clubs in our position.

Maybe but seeing its the mancs and the best case scenario is us probably losing in the 96 minute to a penalty, I'm not sure it matters. To me anyway, as far as priorities and progressing at the moment, the LC was higher than the weekend game. And i'm not someone who usually takes that opinion.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Meanwood Villa on September 23, 2021, 10:23:18 AM
			

			

				The element of "can't win" is that we can't win a trophy only playing back ups!

I know this debate rears its head on here around our biannual exits but it's remarkable how much of a free pass the manager (not just Smith, whoever it may be) gets for it. It's as if winning honours is such an alien concept there's no point giving ourselves the best opportunity to do so.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: LeeB on September 23, 2021, 10:25:49 AM
			

			

				Look at the winners of this tournament in the last 10 years, winning it isn't really realistic.

We got to the final with exactly the same approach to selection when we came up, just the draw suited us better, especially regarding the Liverpool game.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Meanwood Villa on September 23, 2021, 10:29:39 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: LeeB on September 23, 2021, 10:25:49 AM
Look at the winners of this tournament in the last 10 years, winning it isn't really realistic.

We got to the final with exactly the same approach to selection when we came up, just the draw suited us better, especially regarding the Liverpool game.

This may be reality but this attitude is ridiculous.

Not a personal dig. Clearly Deano is on the same page!
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: LeeB on September 23, 2021, 10:36:15 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Meanwood Villa on September 23, 2021, 10:29:39 AM
Quote from: LeeB on September 23, 2021, 10:25:49 AM
Look at the winners of this tournament in the last 10 years, winning it isn't really realistic.

We got to the final with exactly the same approach to selection when we came up, just the draw suited us better, especially regarding the Liverpool game.

This may be reality but this attitude is ridiculous.

Not a personal dig. Clearly Deano is on the same page!

Mate, I'm 44 and I hate that the modern game is like this, but it is.

I try and look at the bigger picture rather than just this season. We're trying to gear up to become one of the teams that does try and genuinely win these things, in the short term though we need to use them to blood the players that will eventually get us there, and the signs are good.

I'm at peace with it. Had we cobbled a team together and they'd looked like strangers ( a la Bruce), I think he'd deserve stick for chucking the tie, but that's not the case, and a good few young players will have come away from playing a top side, in front of a full house with an atmosphere, and will know they belong at this level.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Chico Hamilton III on September 23, 2021, 10:38:47 AM
			

			

				I wonder in a few years’ time whether we’ll be laughing at calling last night’s Villa team a “weakened side”. Some real talent on display. Reminds me ( a tiny bit, I’m not getting carried away) of when Fergie got stick from Man U fans for playing Beckham, Scholes, the Nevilles etc in league cup games when they were teenagers. Last night can only have done them good
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on September 23, 2021, 10:38:53 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: LeeB on September 23, 2021, 10:25:49 AM
Look at the winners of this tournament in the last 10 years, winning it isn't really realistic.

We got to the final with exactly the same approach to selection when we came up, just the draw suited us better, especially regarding the Liverpool game.

The thing is now we can give everybody a game and beat them on our day. I think the Manc teams are the only ones we’ve not beaten since we’ve been back, and we’ve been cheated in most of their games. If we were worrying about staying up, then I could understand a more cautious approach. As it is, I don’t think one of either Ings or Watkins, or one of McGinn or Luiz on the bench would have hurt last night. As I say, it was a good game and I enjoyed it, but am still just a little pissed off that it could be us now looking at an easyish home game against Southampton.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on September 23, 2021, 10:39:45 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: LeeB on September 23, 2021, 10:36:15 AM
Quote from: Meanwood Villa on September 23, 2021, 10:29:39 AM
Quote from: LeeB on September 23, 2021, 10:25:49 AM
Look at the winners of this tournament in the last 10 years, winning it isn't really realistic.

We got to the final with exactly the same approach to selection when we came up, just the draw suited us better, especially regarding the Liverpool game.

This may be reality but this attitude is ridiculous.

Not a personal dig. Clearly Deano is on the same page!

Mate, I'm 44 and I hate that the modern game is like this, but it is.

I try and look at the bigger picture rather than just this season. We're trying to gear up to become one of the teams that does try and genuinely win these things, in the short term though we need to use them to blood the players that will eventually get us there, and the signs are good.

I'm at peace with it. Had we cobbled a team together and they'd looked like strangers ( a la Bruce), I think he'd deserve stick for chucking the tie, but that's not the case, and a good few young players will have come away from playing a top side, in front of a full house with an atmosphere, and will know they belong at this level.

Pfft 44 
Kids today 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Meanwood Villa on September 23, 2021, 10:41:20 AM
			

			

				Fair enough LeeB, I have read some of the defence of the team selection in the post match thread and found myself agreeing with some of the points made. E.g. giving youngsters valuable game time, chances to likes of Hause and Sanson to stake claim for first team place.

I just know the same will happen in the FA cup and we're then 27 years without a trophy. And so it goes on. I'm sorry but I don't see us breaking into the cabal of trophy winning teams any time soon so every chance we have is precious and they keep getting squandered.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ads on September 23, 2021, 11:36:40 AM
			

			

				I guess the alternative, if we'd played a stronger line up or taken one of our chances, Lukaku comes on 20 minutes earlier and the same thing happens as the Saturday before last.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on September 23, 2021, 11:39:29 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Ads on September 23, 2021, 11:36:40 AM
I guess the alternative, if we'd played a stronger line up or taken one of our chances, Lukaku comes on 20 minutes earlier and the same thing happens as the Saturday before last.

There’s no way of knowing, but generally the stronger team you put out, the better you do. And I wonder if Hause has emptied his pockets to find Lukaku still in there with his car keys and chewing gum?!
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on September 23, 2021, 11:48:10 AM
			

			

				Had no issue whatsoever with the team.

Only little query is we didn't have likes of Ings and perhaps Luiz on bench to put on to take a penalty (which is basically what happened with Konsa).

That was a little strange to me considering there's no extra time anymore in these rounds so much bigger chance of game being decided by pens and we were left with 2-3 inexperienced penalty takers which was the difference in the end compared to what Chelsea had.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ger Regan on September 23, 2021, 11:48:17 AM
			

			

				It's always crap to lose like we did last night, but if it gives a clear pathway to first team opportunities for a number of very promising youngsters, then i think it's worth it. It's not really chucking the competition, considering how close we came to winning, but it's seeing a bigger, longer term picture.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on September 23, 2021, 11:51:09 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Ger Regan on September 23, 2021, 11:48:17 AM
It's always crap to lose like we did last night, but if it gives a clear pathway to first team opportunities for a number of very promising youngsters, then i think it's worth it. It's not really chucking the competition, considering how close we came to winning, but it's seeing a bigger, longer term picture.

The trouble is the ability to play them in further rounds has now gone, which defeats the object. It’s why I think a bit more balance was called for.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on September 23, 2021, 11:56:13 AM
			

			

				If we got to quarters we'd be starting Ings and Watkins I'm sure.

When we played Liverpool under 12s in the QFs a two seasons back we played pretty strong 11 IIRC.

Archer showed last night he'll be above Davis in pecking order for rest of the season and rightly so. He'll get 10-15 minutes off bench for a few prem games we're winning I reckon in next 3 months so that's the way to bring him on and hopefully he can score another goal or two.

Then could loan him out in January to championship club for regular starts.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on September 23, 2021, 12:00:48 PM
			

			

				The decision to give Davis a new contract was completely inexplicable. He’s an OK player but a crap goal scorer, and he’s always injured. The club get so much right that this was really odd. He’s now behind Watkins, Ings and Archer in the striker pecking order, even when he is fit enough to play, which is never.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ger Regan on September 23, 2021, 12:04:03 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on September 23, 2021, 11:51:09 AM
Quote from: Ger Regan on September 23, 2021, 11:48:17 AM
It's always crap to lose like we did last night, but if it gives a clear pathway to first team opportunities for a number of very promising youngsters, then i think it's worth it. It's not really chucking the competition, considering how close we came to winning, but it's seeing a bigger, longer term picture.

The trouble is the ability to play them in further rounds has now gone, which defeats the object. It’s why I think a bit more balance was called for.
That's fair enough, but when you consider that one change was enforced (and doubt anyone would argue with Carney being put on for Sanson, especially with McGinn out), Konsa for Cash was another change made, so the only question mark really is around whether Watkins should have come on for Traore (assuming he came off due to fitness / minor injury issues), and I'm not convinced that would have made the difference needed, particularly if he would have needed to play further out wide. Obviously hard to tell, but the way events unfolded it's debatable.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Footy-Vill on September 23, 2021, 11:50:16 PM
			

			

				Dean Smith I feel making his mark now with this team. Playing his brand of football. 
Attacking wise there has been some delightful interplay and the energy and enthusiasm the team has is great to see.

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Allan C on September 24, 2021, 06:25:59 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on September 23, 2021, 10:14:53 AM
Quote from: sickbeggar on September 23, 2021, 10:09:00 AM
Quote from: john e on September 23, 2021, 10:04:03 AM
Absolutely terrific night
The team were fantastic, Proud to be Villa last night

But I do agree with others Tuchel wanted it more than Smith and that is difficult to write when our team haven’t won anything for 25 years
Who knows what would have happened either way
But the simple truth is Tuchel wanted it more because he put his bigger hitters on the bench just in case, where ours were sitting at home tickling their balls

Yes they have a bigger squad but he didn’t put squad members on the bench he put his biggest stars
When you think that the carabao cup must be a long way down the list of priorities for Chelsea I think Smith must learn here
Tuchel is an absolute ruthless winner that’s the difference

yeah, I had no problem with Archer starting but if Chelsea can risk Lukaku for 15 minutes at the end of the game before Man City this weekend, then you'd think we'd have the option of Wakins or Ings to come off the bench for 15 mins

If he'd done that and they'd pick up a knock, he'd have got crucified for it.

There's an element of 'can't win' to this type of situation for clubs in our position.
Exactly this, can you imagine the outcry if either had got injured?? 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ian. on September 24, 2021, 07:12:37 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Footy-Vill on September 23, 2021, 11:50:16 PM
Dean Smith I feel making his mark now with this team. Playing his brand of football. 
Attacking wise there has been some delightful interplay and the energy and enthusiasm the team has is great to see.


Definitely Footy, although we seem to have a more conservative formation from the start, we really do seem far more aggressive and playing some lovely football.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on September 24, 2021, 09:02:14 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Allan C on September 24, 2021, 06:25:59 AM
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on September 23, 2021, 10:14:53 AM
Quote from: sickbeggar on September 23, 2021, 10:09:00 AM
Quote from: john e on September 23, 2021, 10:04:03 AM
Absolutely terrific night
The team were fantastic, Proud to be Villa last night

But I do agree with others Tuchel wanted it more than Smith and that is difficult to write when our team haven’t won anything for 25 years
Who knows what would have happened either way
But the simple truth is Tuchel wanted it more because he put his bigger hitters on the bench just in case, where ours were sitting at home tickling their balls

Yes they have a bigger squad but he didn’t put squad members on the bench he put his biggest stars
When you think that the carabao cup must be a long way down the list of priorities for Chelsea I think Smith must learn here
Tuchel is an absolute ruthless winner that’s the difference

yeah, I had no problem with Archer starting but if Chelsea can risk Lukaku for 15 minutes at the end of the game before Man City this weekend, then you'd think we'd have the option of Wakins or Ings to come off the bench for 15 mins

If he'd done that and they'd pick up a knock, he'd have got crucified for it.

There's an element of 'can't win' to this type of situation for clubs in our position.
Exactly this, can you imagine the outcry if either had got injured?? 

he who dares though init
Tuchel risked a 100mill player in a cup competition that even their own fans won’t be to bothered about winning 
it could have been a catastrophe
Where as we don’t think it’s worth risking some of our bigger players

that’s the difference Tuchel is a cold blooded 100% winner at all costs manager
He don’t like losing and is prepared to risk it all

some might think it crazy but there you go





			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on September 24, 2021, 09:22:25 AM
			

			

				Tuchel is a (brilliant) manager of 22 world class, financially-doped, players, whose priority is the league and the Champion's League. Dean Smith is the head coach of a club that's policy is to recruit the best young players in the country and develop them into first-team players, or to sell them on at a profit. They're both doing excellent jobs.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: London Villan on September 24, 2021, 09:46:59 AM
			

			

				Same with Man city and the reason they’ve won an “insignificant” trophy so many times over the last few years. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on September 24, 2021, 09:55:43 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on September 24, 2021, 09:22:25 AM
Tuchel is a (brilliant) manager of 22 world class, financially-doped, players, whose priority is the league and the Champion's League. Dean Smith is the head coach of a club that's policy is to recruit the best young players in the country and develop them into first-team players, or to sell them on at a profit. They're both doing excellent jobs.

We've spend a not inconsiderable amount of money ourselves. I know we had to, but still, we have.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: chrisw1 on September 24, 2021, 10:02:04 AM
			

			

				
I'm with John.

We don't have the fixture congestion of clubs in Europe and playing Sat-Wed-Sat is hardly a huge ask, particulalrly with the recent and forthcoming international breaks.

I get that they want to give players minutes and playing the likes of Buendia and Traore made sense.  But at the time I was really pissed off when I heard the team news, I just felt we could have gone stronger.  I can't help thinking that people STILL bang on about Moscow but accept a seeming uneccessarily weakened team in a domestic trophy when we haven't won a pot for 25 years.  I would have started Watkins or Ings, but not having a stronger bench at the very least seemed like madness to me.

As it happens the lads did brilliantly and I absolutely loved the game and Archers goal, so to an extent Smith was proved right.  But if we'd played a stronger team we MAY have had an opportunity to give more minutes to squad players in the next round, particularly if we'd got a kinder draw.

On the plus side, we now seem to have genuine young back up in Archer, Bidace and Chuck (who I thought had his best game in a first team shirt), so the future looks promising.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on September 24, 2021, 10:06:01 AM
			

			

				Given that we lost 3-0 to them last week, playing Ings and Watkins, I'm not sure why there's such certainty that they'd have got us over the line.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: chrisw1 on September 24, 2021, 10:11:11 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on September 24, 2021, 10:06:01 AM
Given that we lost 3-0 to them last week, playing Ings and Watkins, I'm not sure why there's such certainty that they'd have got us over the line.
There's no certainty and as it happens Archer got us a great goal.  But Chelsea also played a weakened team, so it's not really comparable to the league game.

It doesn't take a huge leap in logic to make the assumption that our best team may have done a little better than a clearly weakened team.  Which line up would you prefer we start on Saturday?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Lastfootstamper on September 24, 2021, 10:25:20 AM
			

			

				Do people not think that had Tuchel got wind of us playing a stronger side he'd have adjusted his own line up accordingly? Tuchel picked a side that he believed was good enough to beat ours. It wasn't. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on September 24, 2021, 11:24:32 AM
			

			

				I’m not being overly critical of Dean Smith he was doing what virtually every other manager does,
And as it happens it was a fantastic display
I took three of my kids down and as my eldest said it was one of those gems in Football where you go not expecting an awful lot but the game, the Atmosphere, the performance, even the seats we had and it was my daughters first visit to Stamford Bridge made the whole night quite special and one that we will look back on

The difference for me is i would have prioritised The cup game over Man United at the weekend
But that’s just me I don’t expect many managers especially British managers to think that way
Which is why I was surprised Tuchel did
I’m as gung ho and throw caution to the wind sort of supporter as it’s possible to to find but if I was a Chelsea fan even I would have thought throwing Lukaku on at that stage is a bit risky with all the other priorities Chelsea have

Let’s face it if we get a result against Man United tomorrow with all our top players fresh all the decisions will be justified








			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Clampy on September 24, 2021, 01:21:58 PM
			

			

				I'm not sure I would have prioritised the Cup game for tomorrow's match but I can see both sides of the argument. I can fully understand fans wanting their best players in and around the match day squad the other night but like someone else said the other day, Smith may well have taken Archer off once we went behind had he had Watkins and Ings on the bench. That goal will have his confidence up even more than it already was. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Monty on September 24, 2021, 01:47:02 PM
			

			

				I can see both sides, but I'd have rather gone for a cup. I don't think we're troubling the top or bottom four of the league this season, so we might as well go for glory where we find it.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Footy-Vill on September 24, 2021, 02:45:22 PM
			

			

				I've seen Smith get the better of Tuchel every time he's come against him.
The modern day great tuchel and one of the best manager in European club football has only the answer of a better squad and resources to call on to have recently beaten Villa twice.
To me Smith had it perfectly in league and cup and also the last match of the season where we beat them. So really Smith doing many things right and was only margins to have lost. 

Pep and Man City can't say the same and I feel we're more than on right track with Dean Smith who has shown progression with his coaching and now this squad. He can compete in any match with any manger in this league. 

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: simboy on September 24, 2021, 03:02:18 PM
			

			

				I suppose all the hindsight begs the question whether Smith playing our "strongest" side would have beaten Chavski. Their "B Team" had Kante, two England International full backs, a Spanish team regular midfielder [who's crap but still ...] some kid in goal who cost more than our entire team as well as the rest of the team being full internationals except one of their centre halves.

 Now I appreciate that we are a decent side but if that team had started in the league against us there would have been no enquiry about an understrength team being put out. 

I have to say that Chelsea are, for my money, the strongest squad in the league. 

We don't know the niggles and knocks our players are carrying. Targett looked to have been injured in the first half on Saturday, others didn't look overly fit. 

  
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Monty on September 25, 2021, 03:20:31 PM
			

			

				Perfect today. Right up their bollocks from minute one. Took risks, planned for situations, went hard at a gameplan and got the rewards. Famous day for Dean's, and every time we doubt him he seems to come up with the answers. Amazing.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Clark W Griswold on September 25, 2021, 03:53:07 PM
			

			

				Deanos most impressive individual result for me so far. Well done that man.

Or maybe the Liverpool one actually but today’s result considering the rarity of a win there and the fact that the smirking ****** was in the team makes it my personal favourite.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ian. on September 25, 2021, 03:57:13 PM
			

			

				Smith’s performing wonders for us. Our team is a joy to watch at times. We attack, harass and they work their bollocks off for the cause. He’s making the right substitutions at the right time. Our players just improve (massively) every week under his watch. He’s absolutely Villa through and through which is just the icing in the cake.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: jwarry on September 25, 2021, 03:57:24 PM
			

			

				As I said on the post match thread Dean has built a team that fears no-one, and that hasn't happened since probably 1981.  It’s so great to see 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: London Villan on September 25, 2021, 03:57:40 PM
			

			

				The 3 in midfield seems to be working well. I just hope we can keep all the forwards happy. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Toronto Villa on September 25, 2021, 04:01:16 PM
			

			

				He’s proving a lot of people wrong. Myself included. He had to do this without Jack Grealish. Nobody here gives a flying fuck about him now. And Dean Smith is becoming a better manager for it. We are starting to see a settled system, coaching emerging in terms of a plan on how to play and certainly how to attack and defend set pieces including throw ins. But we now have players who can legitimately change games and allow us when needed to play different ways. That’s critical if we want to push on. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Lastfootstamper on September 25, 2021, 04:09:16 PM
			

			

				He is a god, and I will forever have to live with the shame of allowing my own mortal frailties to lead me down a path of briefly doubting that fact about 15 months ago. Come to think of it, possibly around the time we lost to these cheating ******. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: OCD on September 25, 2021, 04:20:13 PM
			

			

				You can see our club improving before our eyes in so many ways. Fantastic to see the team/squad evolving and making progressive steps. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on September 25, 2021, 04:28:51 PM
			

			

				Probably not his most important win as manager (that was play off final) but easily his best as a premier league manager.

He's arrived as top half prem manager now with that result and general performance. Well done DS.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: wince on September 25, 2021, 04:30:48 PM
			

			

				Dean at his best today. His post match interview was top notch. Been a critic of his but he is building something special and we are improving more and more
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Deano's Mullet on September 25, 2021, 04:46:04 PM
			

			

				My local Waterstones has two separate books about that football genius Bielsa and his time at Leeds. Meanwhile Dean seems to slip under the radar time and time again. I know who I'd rather have in charge. Leeds look screwed this season.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: simboy on September 25, 2021, 04:46:31 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: SoccerHQ on September 25, 2021, 04:28:51 PM
Probably not his most important win as manager (that was play off final) but easily his best as a premier league manager.

He's arrived as top half prem manager now with that result and general performance. Well done DS.


Doesn’t beating the previous champions 7-2 qualify? Both good victories though … 


			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: London Villan on September 25, 2021, 06:26:39 PM
			

			

				I wonder if his plan all along was a three man midfield? 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on September 25, 2021, 06:47:48 PM
			

			

				I'm chuffed for the man. He's doing things we've not done for a long, long time.

And now we're better than we were with Ratboy. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: LeeB on September 25, 2021, 08:01:50 PM
			

			

				King Dean.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: West Derby Villan on September 25, 2021, 08:16:39 PM
			

			

				Deano is building his team, the way he wants to play. He had to accommodate the unique Joe (for obvious reasons) but now he has two players for each position, a plan A and a plan B. Onwards and upwards well done Deano
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: mike on September 25, 2021, 08:50:11 PM
			

			

				I've never been sure one way or the other about Dean, mainly because I'm a bit dim about the finer points of football, but he seems to be flourishing in the absence of You Know Who. Which is odd given he used to flounder without him. Maybe it actually suits him to have a talented squad rather than a stand out player. I'd still like Leon Bailey to be fit for an entire match.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Dante Lavelli on September 25, 2021, 09:06:29 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: London Villan on September 25, 2021, 06:26:39 PM
I wonder if his plan all along was a three man midfield? 

I hope so (mainly because that is what I want).  I’d still prefer our extra player to be an attacking player (Bailey/Buendia) rather than Hause/Axel but today is probably not the day to shouting that too loud.

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: colin69 on September 25, 2021, 09:24:23 PM
			

			

				I still think the lock down saved Dean….but thank God it did.
This is the season we see the best of him I think.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on September 25, 2021, 09:40:51 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: London Villan on September 25, 2021, 06:26:39 PM
I wonder if his plan all along was a three man midfield? 

I'd say almost certainly not, given that he spent c.£70m on wide players who now appear to not fit into the system.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: LukeJames on September 25, 2021, 09:44:26 PM
			

			

				Every time im convinced he's taken us as far as he can, he does this. Stop making me look like a twat. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Monty on September 25, 2021, 09:51:41 PM
			

			

				Seconded, though worth adding that making me look like a twat is my favourite habit of his!

A glance* at red cafe makes me think one or two wouldn't mind swapping with us. They were very impressed with us, and less so with their own chap.

*Oh alright, all fucking evening.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: LeeB on September 25, 2021, 09:54:09 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: LukeJames on September 25, 2021, 09:44:26 PM
Every time im convinced he's taken us as far as he can, he does this. Stop making me look like a twat. 

No, keep doing it!
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: LukeJames on September 25, 2021, 10:04:35 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: LeeB on September 25, 2021, 09:54:09 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on September 25, 2021, 09:44:26 PM
Every time im convinced he's taken us as far as he can, he does this. Stop making me look like a twat. 

No, keep doing it!

Fair
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Brend'Watkins on September 25, 2021, 10:49:46 PM
			

			

				It’s really odd. We lose the best player we’ve had for many a year and are starting to look a much better team in a system that works very well.  Good work so far Dean and Co.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Steve67 on September 25, 2021, 10:52:00 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Brend'Watkins on September 25, 2021, 10:49:46 PM
It’s really odd. We lose the best player we’ve had for many a year and are starting to look a much better team in a system that works very well.  Good work so far Dean and Co.

Throw into that the changes with the coaching staff.  Suddenly we look more of a team on AND off the pitch.  Really enjoying this so far.  Great to see Bailey shouting for Villa too.  
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ozzjim on September 26, 2021, 01:49:46 AM
			

			

				I said I thought we would end up in the bottom 3 come the next international break given our form and fixtures, and /i genuinely worried about Dean being gone by November. Fair to say he is making my fears look very unfounded.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Lastfootstamper on September 26, 2021, 07:50:12 AM
			

			

				Easily fixed, ozzjim, using the 'modify' post action. Go back and simply change 'bottom' to 'top', and tack '2062' onto the end of 'November'. Nobody will be any the wiser. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Percy McCarthy on September 26, 2021, 08:01:09 AM
			

			

				A stunning job since taking over the terrible squad he inherited. To improve us after losing our best player and making a net profit on transfers while bringing the youth through would be top notch management of resources.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: p_ad on September 26, 2021, 10:24:37 AM
			

			

				Love the bloke he just comes across as a genuinely decent man, and as a lot of people have said on here he seems to improve every player at the club.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ger Regan on September 26, 2021, 10:46:13 AM
			

			

				I was one that feared a glass ceiling might have been reached for Dean. Delighted to see that he seems to be breaking through it.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ian. on September 26, 2021, 10:54:34 AM
			

			

				He’s going to smash that glass ceiling.

My only fear is keeping this squad happy. I look at our bench and I’m thinking I’d love to see Traore start, he’s such a fantastic player to watch, same as Bailey when fit. Throw in Sansom and the youngsters who I love seeing getting game time, it’s a tough job. Ings looked pissed off yesterday when he was taken off I thought, but to be successful this is how it needs to be.

Maybe not pursuing this elusive holding midfielder or upping the bid on JWP was the right thing to do.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: jwarry on September 26, 2021, 11:03:00 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Ger Regan on September 26, 2021, 10:46:13 AM
I was one that feared a glass ceiling might have been reached for Dean. Delighted to see that he seems to be breaking through it.

He is breaking through it, I suspect largely because he was ruthless enough to upgrade his backroom team.  Nice guy he is, but not afraid to make big decisions 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ROBBO on September 26, 2021, 11:16:21 AM
			

			

				We are far more direct without Joe, he always slowed the movement down, yes he was brilliant for us but we were brilliant for him. I watch the side he plays for now and wonder is he really happy playing chess? 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SamTheMouse on September 26, 2021, 11:28:24 AM
			

			

				He just keeps on doing everything that's asked of him.

One of the things I appreciate most is the fact that the team spirit and atmosphere around the club has been unfailingly positive since he arrived. After years of poisonous vibes and the tolerating of absolute wasters, there's a refreshing togetherness and belief in the squad. Smith's natural Brummie amiability has played a big part in that, I suspect.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: algy on September 26, 2021, 11:33:57 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Toronto Villa on September 25, 2021, 04:01:16 PM
He’s proving a lot of people wrong. Myself included. He had to do this without Jack Grealish. Nobody here gives a flying fuck about him now. And Dean Smith is becoming a better manager for it. We are starting to see a settled system, coaching emerging in terms of a plan on how to play and certainly how to attack and defend set pieces including throw ins. But we now have players who can legitimately change games and allow us when needed to play different ways. That’s critical if we want to push on.
This is it. This is absolutely it. We don't look like a side that particularly misses him. Arguably we're better for his absence. Something unthinkable 6 months ago.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Monty on September 26, 2021, 11:50:16 AM
			

			

				It's premature to say it's all great, as it was premature to say it was all shit after Watford, say. But this win coming after last week's against Everton, a very different win against a very different type of team, has to be classified as really promising. We've not nicked anything - we've had three very good league performances on the spin, and got 6 points to show for it. Not bad at all.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: mr underhill on September 26, 2021, 12:30:49 PM
			

			

				any side would want Grealish but there was an element of hegemony that  disadvantaged us as a team when he was part of it.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ASHTONVILLA on September 26, 2021, 12:31:56 PM
			

			

				Really pleased to see Smith doing so well, and proving me wrong about him yet again.

He is really improving as a manager, and we can all see now that he can make substitutions count now he has better options on the bench. That he can change formations between games and within games.

He has also shown how wrong many of us were (myself included) on him fudging the midfield to fit the new players in, and in us needing a DM. That midfield has been superb. Samson is capable of coming in for the injured Ramsey if needed. Nakamba has looked fine replacing Luiz too.

Absolutely delighted with the progress. We really are not missing Jack anywhere near as much as I feared watching the Watford game.

Well done Dean.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: dave.woodhall on September 26, 2021, 12:35:28 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: mr underhill on September 26, 2021, 12:30:49 PM
any side would want Grealish but there was an element of hegemony that  disadvantaged us as a team when he was part of it.

You were told to apologise or be banned. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Gerrin on September 26, 2021, 12:58:33 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: SamTheMouse on September 26, 2021, 11:28:24 AM
He just keeps on doing everything that's asked of him.

One of the things I appreciate most is the fact that the team spirit and atmosphere around the club has been unfailingly positive since he arrived. After years of poisonous vibes and the tolerating of absolute wasters, there's a refreshing togetherness and belief in the squad. Smith's natural Brummie amiability has played a big part in that, I suspect.

Some great points on this thread. Totally agree with this about team spirit though, it seems to be amazing. I put this down to Smith off the pitch and Mings on it. I appreciate he makes the odd cock up, but the team really seem to follow him. He's been through the winning streak, promotion, the great escape and really seems to know what Villa is about. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Clark W Griswold on September 26, 2021, 01:39:51 PM
			

			

				I’ve not wanted him out at any point so far and even if we’d been relegated after that first season I wouldn’t have minded seeing him get the chance to take us back up. I wouldn’t have been altogether surprised if he had been replaced  if that had happened though.
I did doubt him not bringing in another winger before last season though, but to be fair El Ghazi did a lot better than expected. This season I thought it was utterly crazy to not bring in an upgrade on Nakamba but so far things are ticking along nicely with the 3 that have played and Nakamba has not done badly when he’s come in as well.

The last 2 matches he’s really shown how he’s growing as a manager though, long may it continue.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: frankmosswasmyuncle on September 26, 2021, 03:41:41 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Clark W Griswold on September 26, 2021, 01:39:51 PM
I’ve not wanted him out at any point so far and even if we’d been relegated after that first season I wouldn’t have minded seeing him get the chance to take us back up. I wouldn’t have been altogether surprised if he had been replaced  if that had happened though.
I did doubt him not bringing in another winger before last season though, but to be fair El Ghazi did a lot better than expected. This season I thought it was utterly crazy to not bring in an upgrade on Nakamba but so far things are ticking along nicely with the 3 that have played and Nakamba has not done badly when he’s come in as well.

The last 2 matches he’s really shown how he’s growing as a manager though, long may it continue.
And he will continue to develop within the "new" coaching group....we may have lost Terry and ROK but we have gained new blood, new ideas and a wider range of approaches with McPhee and Danks.
Long may we continue to do so.....
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ventnorVillain on September 26, 2021, 04:04:03 PM
			

			

				What we are currently seeing is Villa "winning" more second halves. I think this is down to his improving game management and ability to respond to the game as it is unfolding. Well done Deano, keep it up.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Steve67 on September 26, 2021, 09:03:48 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: ventnorVillain on September 26, 2021, 04:04:03 PM
What we are currently seeing is Villa "winning" more second halves. I think this is down to his improving game management and ability to respond to the game as it is unfolding. Well done Deano, keep it up.

I also hope it's down to the coaching team he has now.  They seem a vocal group and that cannot be a bad thing for in game management.  They also seem to be a very together group, players and coaching staff. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: LeeB on September 26, 2021, 09:13:36 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Steve67 on September 26, 2021, 09:03:48 PM
Quote from: ventnorVillain on September 26, 2021, 04:04:03 PM
What we are currently seeing is Villa "winning" more second halves. I think this is down to his improving game management and ability to respond to the game as it is unfolding. Well done Deano, keep it up.

I also hope it's down to the coaching team he has now.  They seem a vocal group and that cannot be a bad thing for in game management.  They also seem to be a very together group, players and coaching staff. 

I love how Hause, a player generally on the fringes despite excellent displays still put the credit for the belief in the team down to the manager. I thought that said a lot about the togetherness and Dean's skill in man management.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Steve67 on September 26, 2021, 09:22:42 PM
			

			

				We do look full of confidence and ever player seems comfy on the ball.  They are working really hard for each other and that is all Dean can ask.  Be great to finish in the European places and get a chance of the Europa Conference as I think we'd be a strong contender for it. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: brontebilly on September 26, 2021, 09:40:56 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: ROBBO on September 26, 2021, 11:16:21 AM
We are far more direct without Joe, he always slowed the movement down, yes he was brilliant for us but we were brilliant for him. I watch the side he plays for now and wonder is he really happy playing chess?

Given they taught Chelsea a lesson by all accounts yesterday, I doubt he cares too much.

We are playing a much different style of football. Playing more for set pieces, physically stronger too. Bit like MONs teams in recent games. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Monty on September 26, 2021, 10:41:44 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: brontebilly on September 26, 2021, 09:40:56 PM
Quote from: ROBBO on September 26, 2021, 11:16:21 AM
We are far more direct without Joe, he always slowed the movement down, yes he was brilliant for us but we were brilliant for him. I watch the side he plays for now and wonder is he really happy playing chess?

Given they taught Chelsea a lesson by all accounts yesterday, I doubt he cares too much.

We are playing a much different style of football. Playing more for set pieces, physically stronger too. Bit like MONs teams in recent games. 

Think that's uncharitable, MON played a version of counterattack that was genuinely from the past. We're up to date, pressing high and moving well off the ball (a dramatic change from earlier in the season) - and I don't think we're playing for set-pieces really, just prepared for them.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on September 26, 2021, 11:48:18 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Monty on September 26, 2021, 11:50:16 AM
It's premature to say it's all great, as it was premature to say it was all shit after Watford, say. But this win coming after last week's against Everton, a very different win against a very different type of team, has to be classified as really promising. We've not nicked anything - we've had three very good league performances on the spin, and got 6 points to show for it. Not bad at all.

Sometimes you can learn more from a defeat than a win. As I thought at the time we actually got confidence from way we played v Chelsea and taken it into the next two games and got the points we deserved.

Whereas we played average v a poor Newcastle team and then struggled v Brentford although that was just a scratch team selection due to covid and injuries and Brentford will comfortably finish above relegation zone so I wasn't too disappointed after that match despite the mass panic.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ROBBO on September 27, 2021, 04:36:49 AM
			

			

				With not long to go he decided to make a change, he had an experienced bench to call on yet he chose to give Archer a run, that was different.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on September 27, 2021, 08:42:21 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: ROBBO on September 27, 2021, 04:36:49 AM
With not long to go he decided to make a change, he had an experienced bench to call on yet he chose to give Archer a run, that was different.

I loved that
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on September 27, 2021, 08:53:52 AM
			

			

				The biggest question for me was can Dean Smith do it without Grealish
In the last two seasons have we beat a so-called top six side without Grealish  I’m not sure I haven’t checked but I doubt it
And that’s always been my concern is Smith good enough to produce and create a side capable of competing at the top end of the league

Last 4 games Man United Chelsea x2 and Everton suggests he can
The performance levels in all of those games have been top-class no matter the result

Ironically the team that played against Man United could have been put out last season apart from Ings
But beating them on Saturday is a big turning point in my mind if I’m honest I didn’t expect it, I thought we would come away as Galient loses yet again
The performance was First Class I think it’s probably the most important win Smith has had apart from the playoff final
For me it’s massive


Edit - not been on much as I’ve been pissed up celebrating literally the whole weekend 


			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Mister E on September 27, 2021, 09:02:46 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: brontebilly on September 26, 2021, 09:40:56 PM
Quote from: ROBBO on September 26, 2021, 11:16:21 AM
We are far more direct without Joe, he always slowed the movement down, yes he was brilliant for us but we were brilliant for him. I watch the side he plays for now and wonder is he really happy playing chess?
..
We are playing a much different style of football. Playing more for set pieces, physically stronger too. Bit like MONs teams in recent games. 
How can you assert that we're playing for more set pieces when the "King o the Collapse" has departed for medals?! - don't follow your logic at all, particularly when our game is now characterised by continuity (keeping the ball moving).

And the reference to MON is strange too: firstly, because we're not playing players out of position (i.e. at right back) and secondly because MON teams were happy to sit deep for large parts of the game. Our current team is well-balanced and on the front foot.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on September 27, 2021, 09:27:28 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: john e on September 27, 2021, 08:53:52 AM
The biggest question for me was can Dean Smith do it without Grealish
In the last two seasons have we beat a so-called top six side without Grealish  I’m not sure I haven’t checked but I doubt it
And that’s always been my concern is Smith good enough to produce and create a side capable of competing at the top end of the league

Last 4 games Man United Chelsea x2 and Everton suggests he can
The performance levels in all of those games have been top-class no matter the result

Ironically the team that played against Man United could have been put out last season apart from Ings
But beating them on Saturday is a big turning point in my mind if I’m honest I didn’t expect it, I thought we would come away as Galient loses yet again
The performance was First Class I think it’s probably the most important win Smith has had apart from the playoff final
For me it’s massive


Edit - not been on much as I’ve been pissed up celebrating literally the whole weekend 



The key to Smith's tenure now is consistency. We can beat anyone on our day, but I also want to see an end to the sorts of displays we had where we lost against the likes of Burnley, Southampton and Brighton last year, and Watford this year. I also don't agree that we're playing for more set pieces, we're just 100% better at them now when we do get one.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: brontebilly on September 27, 2021, 09:31:38 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Monty on September 26, 2021, 10:41:44 PM
Quote from: brontebilly on September 26, 2021, 09:40:56 PM
Quote from: ROBBO on September 26, 2021, 11:16:21 AM
We are far more direct without Joe, he always slowed the movement down, yes he was brilliant for us but we were brilliant for him. I watch the side he plays for now and wonder is he really happy playing chess?

Given they taught Chelsea a lesson by all accounts yesterday, I doubt he cares too much.

We are playing a much different style of football. Playing more for set pieces, physically stronger too. Bit like MONs teams in recent games. 

Think that's uncharitable, MON played a version of counterattack that was genuinely from the past. We're up to date, pressing high and moving well off the ball (a dramatic change from earlier in the season) - and I don't think we're playing for set-pieces really, just prepared for them.

Gabby part 1, Young and Milner were all very good without the ball. We also played two up top quite a bit with Gabby and Carew (which left our midfield exposed at times). Not sure that we played 352 all that much but we certainly played with 3 CBs quite a bit with Cuellar (,shudder) and Mellberg at RB. Made us a big threat at set pieces which this new coach has us again. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: cdbearsfan on September 27, 2021, 09:32:40 AM
			

			

				No team in the world never puts in a rubbish performance. Cutting down on them, fair enough. You aren't going to see "an end" to them, though. Liverpool got twatted by Watford the year they won the league by miles.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on September 27, 2021, 09:37:01 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: brontebilly on September 27, 2021, 09:31:38 AM
Quote from: Monty on September 26, 2021, 10:41:44 PM
Quote from: brontebilly on September 26, 2021, 09:40:56 PM
Quote from: ROBBO on September 26, 2021, 11:16:21 AM
We are far more direct without Joe, he always slowed the movement down, yes he was brilliant for us but we were brilliant for him. I watch the side he plays for now and wonder is he really happy playing chess?

Given they taught Chelsea a lesson by all accounts yesterday, I doubt he cares too much.

We are playing a much different style of football. Playing more for set pieces, physically stronger too. Bit like MONs teams in recent games. 

Think that's uncharitable, MON played a version of counterattack that was genuinely from the past. We're up to date, pressing high and moving well off the ball (a dramatic change from earlier in the season) - and I don't think we're playing for set-pieces really, just prepared for them.

Gabby part 1, Young and Milner were all very good without the ball. We also played two up top quite a bit with Gabby and Carew (which left our midfield exposed at times). Not sure that we played 352 all that much but we certainly played with 3 CBs quite a bit with Cuellar (,shudder) and Mellberg at RB. Made us a big threat at set pieces which this new coach has us again. 

I couldn’t care less about what formations were played
MON’s Team never played football like we did on Saturday, Never
It was far more direct and counter-attacking back then whereas on Saturday our midfield passed the ball around and controlled the game for long spells




			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on September 27, 2021, 09:41:55 AM
			

			

				I can not see any comparisons with MON style of play.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: brontebilly on September 27, 2021, 09:49:50 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Mister E on September 27, 2021, 09:02:46 AM
Quote from: brontebilly on September 26, 2021, 09:40:56 PM
Quote from: ROBBO on September 26, 2021, 11:16:21 AM
We are far more direct without Joe, he always slowed the movement down, yes he was brilliant for us but we were brilliant for him. I watch the side he plays for now and wonder is he really happy playing chess?
..
We are playing a much different style of football. Playing more for set pieces, physically stronger too. Bit like MONs teams in recent games. 
How can you assert that we're playing for more set pieces when the "King o the Collapse" has departed for medals?! - don't follow your logic at all, particularly when our game is now characterised by continuity (keeping the ball moving).

And the reference to MON is strange too: firstly, because we're not playing players out of position (i.e. at right back) and secondly because MON teams were happy to sit deep for large parts of the game. Our current team is well-balanced and on the front foot.

I don't recall us trying a single long throw under Smith before this season...We are also trying a lot more long diagonal punts into the box at set pieces, not just corners, like we did v Everton with Konsa nodding back a clever one that Ings put just wide. I don't see anything wrong with this...playing to our new strengths if we have 3 CBs on. 

Extra man in midfield now means the likes of Luiz and McGinn have a bit more freedom and not as worried about getting caught on the ball like they were when playing in a two. Playing with 4231 was designed really to get the best out of Grealish and Watkins but others like Luiz and McGinn struggled the longer it went on. In summary, I think there are significant changes in our style of play this season.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: dave.woodhall on September 27, 2021, 09:52:15 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: ChicagoLion on September 27, 2021, 09:41:55 AM
I can not see any comparisons with MON style of play.

I can see one comparison - we're winning. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on September 27, 2021, 09:54:53 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: dave.woodhall on September 27, 2021, 09:52:15 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on September 27, 2021, 09:41:55 AM
I can not see any comparisons with MON style of play.

I can see one comparison - we're winning.
There is that I suppose.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: DrGonzo on September 27, 2021, 10:14:20 AM
			

			

				I can't see Smith ever playing MoN hoofball.  We are palying very much in the modern style of possession back to front, which is fine with Emi in goal but more scary if Steer is in.  That said we are, I think, more aware this season of the opportunity to break quickly and seem to have more belief in our ability to pick a long pass.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: BC Villain on September 27, 2021, 12:26:18 PM
			

			

				Losing Jack Grealish could really be the making of Dean Smith.  You can guarantee that these results last season would have been down to Grealish as opposed to anyone else on the payroll at Villa Park 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: algy on September 27, 2021, 12:28:01 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: BC Villain on September 27, 2021, 12:26:18 PM
Losing Jack Grealish could really be the making of Dean Smith.  You can guarantee that these results last season would have been down to Grealish as opposed to anyone else on the payroll at Villa Park
Agree completely.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Mister E on September 27, 2021, 12:29:49 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: brontebilly on September 27, 2021, 09:49:50 AM
Quote from: Mister E on September 27, 2021, 09:02:46 AM
Quote from: brontebilly on September 26, 2021, 09:40:56 PM
Quote from: ROBBO on September 26, 2021, 11:16:21 AM
We are far more direct without Joe, he always slowed the movement down, yes he was brilliant for us but we were brilliant for him. I watch the side he plays for now and wonder is he really happy playing chess?
..
We are playing a much different style of football. Playing more for set pieces, physically stronger too. Bit like MONs teams in recent games. 
How can you assert that we're playing for more set pieces when the "King o the Collapse" has departed for medals?! - don't follow your logic at all, particularly when our game is now characterised by continuity (keeping the ball moving).

And the reference to MON is strange too: firstly, because we're not playing players out of position (i.e. at right back) and secondly because MON teams were happy to sit deep for large parts of the game. Our current team is well-balanced and on the front foot.
I don't recall us trying a single long throw under Smith before this season...We are also trying a lot more long diagonal punts into the box at set pieces, not just corners, like we did v Everton with Konsa nodding back a clever one that Ings put just wide. I don't see anything wrong with this...playing to our new strengths if we have 3 CBs on. 
Extra man in midfield now means the likes of Luiz and McGinn have a bit more freedom and not as worried about getting caught on the ball like they were when playing in a two. Playing with 4231 was designed really to get the best out of Grealish and Watkins but others like Luiz and McGinn struggled the longer it went on. In summary, I think there are significant changes in our style of play this season.
Yes, get all that. Just not the comment about playing for more set pieces and the comparison with MON.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: LeeB on September 27, 2021, 12:30:01 PM
			

			

				He strikes me as a man that where others see a setback, he's sees an opportunity.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: BC Villain on September 27, 2021, 12:51:27 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: algy on September 26, 2021, 11:33:57 AM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on September 25, 2021, 04:01:16 PM
He’s proving a lot of people wrong. Myself included. He had to do this without Jack Grealish. Nobody here gives a flying fuck about him now. And Dean Smith is becoming a better manager for it. We are starting to see a settled system, coaching emerging in terms of a plan on how to play and certainly how to attack and defend set pieces including throw ins. But we now have players who can legitimately change games and allow us when needed to play different ways. That’s critical if we want to push on.
This is it. This is absolutely it. We don't look like a side that particularly misses him. Arguably we're better for his absence. Something unthinkable 6 months ago.

Seem to recall last year Adrian Durham claimed that Joe held us back and got ridiculed for it.

As much as I think Durham is an odious little man, he may actually have had a point
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Brazilian Villain on September 27, 2021, 07:49:32 PM
			

			

				Sounds like all is well at BMH. https://twitter.com/PreeceObserver/status/1442531907099635716
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: PaulWinch again on September 27, 2021, 08:29:52 PM
			

			

				Great stuff - you can see that coming through in the squad attitude.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ventnorVillain on September 27, 2021, 09:23:35 PM
			

			

				Compare and contrast: Dean Smith's Aston Villa with Nuno's Spurs. One is focused, clear about how he wants his team to set up and play, and the other is Nuno. I hope this doesn't come back to bite me in the arse this weekend.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Beard82 on September 27, 2021, 09:43:59 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: BC Villain on September 27, 2021, 12:51:27 PM
Quote from: algy on September 26, 2021, 11:33:57 AM
Quote from: Toronto Villa on September 25, 2021, 04:01:16 PM
He’s proving a lot of people wrong. Myself included. He had to do this without Jack Grealish. Nobody here gives a flying fuck about him now. And Dean Smith is becoming a better manager for it. We are starting to see a settled system, coaching emerging in terms of a plan on how to play and certainly how to attack and defend set pieces including throw ins. But we now have players who can legitimately change games and allow us when needed to play different ways. That’s critical if we want to push on.
This is it. This is absolutely it. We don't look like a side that particularly misses him. Arguably we're better for his absence. Something unthinkable 6 months ago.

Seem to recall last year Adrian Durham claimed that Joe held us back and got ridiculed for it.

As much as I think Durham is an odious little man, he may actually have had a point
Hes doing great, every time questions start to get asks, he proves people wrong.  Everyone at the club seems insync with what we doing, and its just brilliant to see.  Joe was amazing, but it certainly feels like we've moved on, and in a really good place - UTV
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Steve67 on September 27, 2021, 10:18:39 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: ventnorVillain on September 27, 2021, 09:23:35 PM
Compare and contrast: Dean Smith's Aston Villa with Nuno's Spurs. One is focused, clear about how he wants his team to set up and play, and the other is Nuno. I hope this doesn't come back to bite me in the arse this weekend.

I hope the charitable Villa is a thing of the past.  There was a time when an opponent centre forward hadn't scored for months, step forward Villa and, bingo!  I hope we take the game to Spurs this weekend and go into the break in a really good position.  Get Sanson and Bailey fit after the international break.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: FatSam on September 28, 2021, 12:24:47 AM
			

			

				I was just listening to the Guardian Football Weekly podcast. Jordan Jarrett-Bryan, who I understand is a TalkSport presenter, was offered the opportunity to step back from his criticism of Dean Smith from the start of last season (when I think he basically said that he isn’t a good enough manager) in the light of mounting evidence, including Saturday’s result. Whilst complimentary about the performance he said ‘I’m just upset that these good times are happening to that set of supporters.’, ‘I like Aston Villa, it’s just the fans’, and ‘I’m not anti Aston Villa it’s just the supporters’. When challenged that ‘every club has these fans’ he said ‘they have more than most’. 

I’ve largely stopped listening to this podcast since AC Jimbo left, but vaguely remember his criticism from last season, and had just filed it as a lazy opinion from someone with no awareness of football beyond the scab six. I don’t understand why he would compound it now though with sweeping generalisations about our fan base. 

I don’t know anything about him, whether his dislike for Villa fans predates last season, or if this is just how TalkSport presenters operate? I was critical of Leeds fans for the Karen Carney pile-on, so hope he hasn’t experienced something similar.  

Anyway, as an Aston Villa supporter I was triggered, which I suppose was probably the intention. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Matt C on September 28, 2021, 01:20:00 AM
			

			

				He’s an Arsenal fan bleating about odious, self-entitled fans so clearly not familiar with irony…

He’s also a TalkSport employee so has to play the tiresome controversy card in a desperate bid for attention. The Guardian podcast is generally very good (when’s he’s not on it) he got some stick last season when belittling Villa only for us to trounce his team twice and now he can't walk it back, he's playing up to it for laughs I suspect. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: LukeJames on September 28, 2021, 06:24:53 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: FatSam on September 28, 2021, 12:24:47 AM
I was just listening to the Guardian Football Weekly podcast. Jordan Jarrett-Bryan, who I understand is a TalkSport presenter, was offered the opportunity to step back from his criticism of Dean Smith from the start of last season (when I think he basically said that he isn’t a good enough manager) in the light of mounting evidence, including Saturday’s result. Whilst complimentary about the performance he said ‘I’m just upset that these good times are happening to that set of supporters.’, ‘I like Aston Villa, it’s just the fans’, and ‘I’m not anti Aston Villa it’s just the supporters’. When challenged that ‘every club has these fans’ he said ‘they have more than most’. 

I love this, we beat his team every time we play them, took their best player and unsettled there wonderkid to the point were by they had to throw a shit load more money at him, of course he doesn't like us.

Long gone are the days when these people can give us condescending plaudits as they brush us aside season after season.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Mister E on September 28, 2021, 08:11:14 AM
			

			

				I've been reflecting on the close-season. After last season, what were the big challenges that Deano faced? - 1. an over-reliance on one player, who - when absent - left a gaping hole in our team; 2. an inflexible formation that had become too predictable; 3. poor outcomes from set pieces; 4. a stale coaching team; 5. players being played to their strength.
Despite the perhaps-unexpected departure of our Big Player and the disruption of the pre-season plans, it seems clear that there has been a real focus on addressing the shortcomings (point 4 above is perhaps evidenced by the post above that gave us this link https://twitter.com/PreeceObserver/status/1442531907099635716 (https://twitter.com/PreeceObserver/status/1442531907099635716)).
Point 5 above refers to Cash's improved right-wing exploits, SJG and Luiz being used more effectively (negating the need to being in a specialist DMF) and the existence in the squad of 4 CB that can play in different systems effectively. 

I may be crediting Smith, Lange and Purslow with too much, but it does seem to me that they did an in-depth review of a successful second season and have now addressed several significant improvement areas.

It's pretty impressive if viewed as I've outlined it.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SW9-VILLA on September 28, 2021, 08:54:00 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Mister E on September 28, 2021, 08:11:14 AM
I've been reflecting on the close-season. After last season, what were the big challenges that Deano faced? - 1. an over-reliance on one player, who - when absent - left a gaping hole in our team; 2. an inflexible formation that had become too predictable; 3. poor outcomes from set pieces; 4. a stale coaching team; 5. players being played to their strength.
Despite the perhaps-unexpected departure of our Big Player and the disruption of the pre-season plans, it seems clear that there has been a real focus on addressing the shortcomings (point 4 above is perhaps evidenced by the post above that gave us this link https://twitter.com/PreeceObserver/status/1442531907099635716 (https://twitter.com/PreeceObserver/status/1442531907099635716)).
Point 5 above refers to Cash's improved right-wing exploits, SJG and Luiz being used more effectively (negating the need to being in a specialist DMF) and the existence in the squad of 4 CB that can play in different systems effectively. 

I may be crediting Smith, Lange and Purslow with too much, but it does seem to me that they did an in-depth review of a successful second season and have now addressed several significant improvement areas.

It's pretty impressive if viewed as I've outlined it.

Also see the work on the defence after Project Restart and into the following season.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on September 28, 2021, 01:30:26 PM
			

			

				If he maintains what he's doing, he'll start being linked with other jobs. But there's only one I think he'd leave us for, and even then, he wouldn't go without winning something first.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Smithy on September 28, 2021, 02:54:12 PM
			

			

				Sometimes I like to stop and look at how far we've come with Dean in charge, in what is still a relatively short time.

He's been here less than three years, but in the second half on Saturday we took off a £20m England striker and replaced him with a £30m Argentinian attacking midfielder (while leaving another £30m England striker on the pitch). We also replaced one 20-year old youth product with another 19-year-old youth product from the bench.  And we did all this on our way to deservedly winning three points at Old Trafford.

If you'd told me that such a thing was coming in October 2018 I'd have thought you were bonkers. I'd have hoped you were right, but I wouldn't have believed it was possible - not after the decade we'd just endured.

We might lose at Spurs, and see plenty of the positivity we're currently enjoying seep away, but it's always nice to step back from the match-to-match obsession (which we're all guilty of) and look at our journey so far - because it's been a bloody good one.

Who knows what we'll be looking back on in another three years?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on September 28, 2021, 03:17:54 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Smithy on September 28, 2021, 02:54:12 PM
Sometimes I like to stop and look at how far we've come with Dean in charge, in what is still a relatively short time.

He's been here less than three years, but in the second half on Saturday we took off a £20m England striker and replaced him with a £30m Argentinian attacking midfielder (while leaving another £30m England striker on the pitch). We also replaced one 20-year old youth product with another 19-year-old youth product from the bench.  And we did all this on our way to deservedly winning three points at Old Trafford.

If you'd told me that such a thing was coming in October 2018 I'd have thought you were bonkers. I'd have hoped you were right, but I wouldn't have believed it was possible - not after the decade we'd just endured.

We might lose at Spurs, and see plenty of the positivity we're currently enjoying seep away, but it's always nice to step back from the match-to-match obsession (which we're all guilty of) and look at our journey so far - because it's been a bloody good one.

Who knows what we'll be looking back on in another three years?

Great post.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Pat Mustard on September 28, 2021, 03:27:18 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Smithy on September 28, 2021, 02:54:12 PM
Sometimes I like to stop and look at how far we've come with Dean in charge, in what is still a relatively short time.

He's been here less than three years, but in the second half on Saturday we took off a £20m England striker and replaced him with a £30m Argentinian attacking midfielder (while leaving another £30m England striker on the pitch). We also replaced one 20-year old youth product with another 19-year-old youth product from the bench.  And we did all this on our way to deservedly winning three points at Old Trafford.

If you'd told me that such a thing was coming in October 2018 I'd have thought you were bonkers. I'd have hoped you were right, but I wouldn't have believed it was possible - not after the decade we'd just endured.

We might lose at Spurs, and see plenty of the positivity we're currently enjoying seep away, but it's always nice to step back from the match-to-match obsession (which we're all guilty of) and look at our journey so far - because it's been a bloody good one.

Who knows what we'll be looking back on in another three years?

Amen
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: DrGonzo on September 28, 2021, 03:32:21 PM
			

			

				Absolutely.  There's enough pouncing on Smith when things aren't going well.  We mustn't forget he is still a young manager and will make mistakes as a young player will.  He is learning and you can see his tactical development this year reflected in the team around him as well as the team on the pitch.  I've a lot of time for Dean and hope he will still be taking us on an upward curve in 2 or 3 years time.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Clampy on September 28, 2021, 05:17:41 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Smithy on September 28, 2021, 02:54:12 PM
Sometimes I like to stop and look at how far we've come with Dean in charge, in what is still a relatively short time.

He's been here less than three years, but in the second half on Saturday we took off a £20m England striker and replaced him with a £30m Argentinian attacking midfielder (while leaving another £30m England striker on the pitch). We also replaced one 20-year old youth product with another 19-year-old youth product from the bench.  And we did all this on our way to deservedly winning three points at Old Trafford.

If you'd told me that such a thing was coming in October 2018 I'd have thought you were bonkers. I'd have hoped you were right, but I wouldn't have believed it was possible - not after the decade we'd just endured.

We might lose at Spurs, and see plenty of the positivity we're currently enjoying seep away, but it's always nice to step back from the match-to-match obsession (which we're all guilty of) and look at our journey so far - because it's been a bloody good one.

Who knows what we'll be looking back on in another three years?

Excellent post. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Lastfootstamper on September 28, 2021, 05:21:33 PM
			

			

				Don't forget, Smithy, doing all that having sold Grealish. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: astonvilla82 on September 28, 2021, 05:25:08 PM
			

			

				Don't think it's been mentioned, but you look at the cost of Manchester's side and subs and Villa's, that is such a pleasing fact
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Villan82 on September 28, 2021, 06:37:45 PM
			

			

				Dean is doing a great job
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ger Regan on September 28, 2021, 07:13:36 PM
			

			

				One of my biggest criticisms of Dean was his in game management. The past couple of games have seen him being much more proactive, which is great to see
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ian. on September 28, 2021, 07:17:53 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Ger Regan on September 28, 2021, 07:13:36 PM
One of my biggest criticisms of Dean was his in game management. The past couple of games have seen him being much more proactive, which is great to see

He’s been doing it all season to be fair. It’s definitely something that’s different now. Maybe it’s having more faith with what’s available on the bench or help from his colleagues.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Smithy on September 28, 2021, 07:37:18 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Ian. on September 28, 2021, 07:17:53 PM
Quote from: Ger Regan on September 28, 2021, 07:13:36 PM
One of my biggest criticisms of Dean was his in game management. The past couple of games have seen him being much more proactive, which is great to see

He’s been doing it all season to be fair. It’s definitely something that’s different now. Maybe it’s having more faith with what’s available on the bench or help from his colleagues.

The options from the bench are WAY better this season.  I said in the summer, I wasn't sure if our first-eleven post-Grealish is better than our first-eleven WITH Grealish.  But the 14 we can use in any given match is DEFINITELY better than any 14 we could have put out in the Grealish era.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: dave.woodhall on September 28, 2021, 07:44:31 PM
			

			

				To repeat what I'm saying more and more - I'm still not sure whether Dean will prove to be another Ron Saunders, or Vic Crowe. But I'm certain that if it's the latter his successor will inherit the best situation any new Villa manager has enjoyed for at least thirty years. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Beard82 on September 28, 2021, 07:50:06 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Clampy on September 28, 2021, 05:17:41 PM
Quote from: Smithy on September 28, 2021, 02:54:12 PM
Sometimes I like to stop and look at how far we've come with Dean in charge, in what is still a relatively short time.

He's been here less than three years, but in the second half on Saturday we took off a £20m England striker and replaced him with a £30m Argentinian attacking midfielder (while leaving another £30m England striker on the pitch). We also replaced one 20-year old youth product with another 19-year-old youth product from the bench.  And we did all this on our way to deservedly winning three points at Old Trafford.

If you'd told me that such a thing was coming in October 2018 I'd have thought you were bonkers. I'd have hoped you were right, but I wouldn't have believed it was possible - not after the decade we'd just endured.

We might lose at Spurs, and see plenty of the positivity we're currently enjoying seep away, but it's always nice to step back from the match-to-match obsession (which we're all guilty of) and look at our journey so far - because it's been a bloody good one.

Who knows what we'll be looking back on in another three years?

Excellent post.

Brilliant Post.   We're doing things so well at the moment.  I run a small business and take a lot of inspiration from the Villa.  Day to Day things can be shit - but with a strategy, and the right people you'll always go forward.  Thats what the club are doing so well.  They will be set backs, but I think we are currently the best ran club in the league
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on September 28, 2021, 07:56:20 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: dave.woodhall on September 28, 2021, 07:44:31 PM
To repeat what I'm saying more and more - I'm still not sure whether Dean will prove to be another Ron Saunders, or Vic Crowe. But I'm certain that if it's the latter his successor will inherit the best situation any new Villa manager has enjoyed for at least thirty years. 

Absolutely, he might, eventually, prove to be the wrong man to take us where we want to be but the squad he's building to get there, and the club being built around it, is the best we've had for a long time and when we're looking for a replacement I suspect the candidates will be very excited by the prospect. I hope that all happens years from now though and we're on the 2nd or 3rd generation of youth players coming through.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: not3bad on September 28, 2021, 09:59:47 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: paul_e on September 28, 2021, 07:56:20 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on September 28, 2021, 07:44:31 PM
To repeat what I'm saying more and more - I'm still not sure whether Dean will prove to be another Ron Saunders, or Vic Crowe. But I'm certain that if it's the latter his successor will inherit the best situation any new Villa manager has enjoyed for at least thirty years. 
Absolutely, he might, eventually, prove to be the wrong man to take us where we want to be but the squad he's building to get there, and the club being built around it, is the best we've had for a long time and when we're looking for a replacement I suspect the candidates will be very excited by the prospect. I hope that all happens years from now though and we're on the 2nd or 3rd generation of youth players coming through.

The manner of Smith's exit may be interesting. Are the FA looking at what he's doing at Villa and wondering what he could do for England? Don't think they would tempt Smith now as he must be intent on what's happening at Villa, but in a few years time (if things go as we hope they might)?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on September 28, 2021, 10:10:56 PM
			

			

				He'll certainly be in the mix along with likes of Potter and inevitable big name like Gerrard.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: OCD on September 29, 2021, 11:32:03 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: SoccerHQ on September 28, 2021, 10:10:56 PM
He'll certainly be in the mix along with likes of Potter and inevitable big name like Gerrard.

And John Terry. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Brazilian Villain on September 29, 2021, 11:41:38 AM
			

			

				Dean Smith's been the favourite for a while followed by Eddie Howe and Sean Dyche.

As an Ireland fan I'd like it to be Howe, if I were an England fan I'd go for Potter or $tevie Mbe. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: The Edge on September 29, 2021, 11:57:15 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: SoccerHQ on September 28, 2021, 10:10:56 PM
He'll certainly be in the mix along with likes of Potter and inevitable big name like Gerrard.
It's not going to be a concern for the foreseeable future. Southgate ticks all the FA boxes even though he blew England's best chance of winning something in 55 years with his ultra Conservative style. I think Smith is going to be England manager at some point but not until he's stocked up our trophy cabinet a bit. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: LeeB on September 29, 2021, 12:03:40 PM
			

			

				It will probably be the logical step in about 5-6 years, as two thirds of the England team are made up of our academy players.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on September 29, 2021, 01:53:06 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: The Edge on September 29, 2021, 11:57:15 AM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on September 28, 2021, 10:10:56 PM
He'll certainly be in the mix along with likes of Potter and inevitable big name like Gerrard.
It's not going to be a concern for the foreseeable future. Southgate ticks all the FA boxes even though he blew England's best chance of winning something in 55 years with his ultra Conservative style. I think Smith is going to be England manager at some point but not until he's stocked up our trophy cabinet a bit. 

Yeah if Southgate wants it he'll be there until 2026 world cup I think (unless England bomb out of group stages of next world cup or something). Seems though he's stalling on new contract and wants to go back into club football after next world cup but he'd just get exposed.

As for other options Howe's stock is lower now than 2-3 years back and he seemingly didn't want the Celtic job due to the pressure you get so can't see him fancying it. And well Dyche's football really isn't great so can't see him being a good fit for this squad.

DS will certainly be in the mix. Fits the low profile guy in media the FA generally like to pick and if he's qualified us for europe by time job comes up again he'd be one of the best domestic candidates anyway.

Hope it dosen't happen but the positive is some really good managers would consider us if we're finishing top 6 by then. I reckon for one Pochettino would be interested if he's out of a job at that point.

Similar job to when he took over Spurs, young squad that can improve further and go upwards in the league with more backing.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: chrisw1 on September 29, 2021, 02:01:32 PM
			

			

				IF Smith is in a position to be offered the England job that would mean over a period of time he has us as a firm top 6 side, probably challenging or even in the top 4.  If that's is the case then I just can't see him taking it.  Why would he when with our owners the sky is the limit?  
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: chrisw1 on September 29, 2021, 02:08:35 PM
			

			

				But it makes me laugh how this place is a bit manic.  After a few games last season we had people predicting top 6 and confidently staing our squad was better than Spurs, Everton and Arsenal.  After Christmas we had 'Smith out' because we were in a terrible run.

This summer Smith had probbaly found his level and taken us as far as he can - 10-12th being the max we could hope for.  After 3 games we were struggling and more Smith out rumblings.  We win 2 games and suddenly we're top 6 material again and worried about Smith being poached by England.

I appreciate I am paraphrasing the more exteme positions from differenent posters at different ends ofd the spectrum, but even so it just shows as the late, great Jimmy used to say, it's a funny old game.

Always a roller coaster with Villa.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on September 29, 2021, 02:21:10 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: chrisw1 on September 29, 2021, 02:01:32 PM
IF Smith is in a position to be offered the England job that would mean over a period of time he has us as a firm top 6 side, probably challenging or even in the top 4.  If that's is the case then I just can't see him taking it.  Why would he when with our owners the sky is the limit?  

I don't think getting the England manager job reauires such lofty achievements. Certainly Southgate, Hodgson, Allardyce and McLaren weren't perennial top 6 worriers.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: olaftab on September 29, 2021, 02:27:49 PM
			

			

				Yup. It's only one notch above Scotland job. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: chrisw1 on September 29, 2021, 02:31:13 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on September 29, 2021, 02:21:10 PM
Quote from: chrisw1 on September 29, 2021, 02:01:32 PM
IF Smith is in a position to be offered the England job that would mean over a period of time he has us as a firm top 6 side, probably challenging or even in the top 4.  If that's is the case then I just can't see him taking it.  Why would he when with our owners the sky is the limit?  

I don't think getting the England manager job reauires such lofty achievements. Certainly Southgate, Hodgson, Allardyce and McLaren weren't perennial top 6 worriers.
Maybe, but if we're not in the top 6 by then I don't think he'll be Villa manager anyway, so it won't be our problem. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Hookeysmith on September 29, 2021, 03:41:39 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: LeeB on September 29, 2021, 12:03:40 PM
It will probably be the logical step in about 5-6 years, as two thirds of the England team are made up of our academy players.

Very good point
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Lastfootstamper on September 30, 2021, 01:48:45 PM
			

			

				Bollocks. Nominated for September's Manager Of The Month. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: The Edge on September 30, 2021, 03:16:06 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: chrisw1 on September 29, 2021, 02:01:32 PM
IF Smith is in a position to be offered the England job that would mean over a period of time he has us as a firm top 6 side, probably challenging or even in the top 4.  If that's is the case then I just can't see him taking it.  Why would he when with our owners the sky is the limit? 
Smithys credentials would already be good enough for the England job. Southgates credentials were laughable. He got Middlesbrough to 12th then relegated the following season. By those standards the FA would appoint Barry Fry if he wasn't so opinionated. But I do not wish to see Dean Smith go anywhere in the next 5/10 seasons by which time we will be dominating Europe. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: darren woolley on September 30, 2021, 04:01:58 PM
			

			

				Well deserved.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: wince on September 30, 2021, 06:13:34 PM
			

			

				Dean’s going nowhere. Relax folks
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: olaftab on September 30, 2021, 06:28:12 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on September 30, 2021, 01:48:45 PM
Bollocks. Nominated for September's Manager Of The Month. 
Noooooooo. I hope its Arteta. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Chap on September 30, 2021, 06:36:06 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: wince on September 30, 2021, 06:13:34 PM
Dean’s going nowhere. Relax folks

Building the Dean Dynasty!😁😁
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: LukeJames on September 30, 2021, 06:54:02 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: olaftab on September 30, 2021, 06:28:12 PM
Quote from: Lastfootstamper on September 30, 2021, 01:48:45 PM
Bollocks. Nominated for September's Manager Of The Month. 
Noooooooo. I hope its Arteta.

I read somewhere (probably on here) that the MOTM curse is bollocks anyway and statistically hardly ever happens. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Bad English on September 30, 2021, 10:06:17 PM
			

			

				I think France will come calling after Deschamps fails to retain the World Cup.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Demitri_C on October 03, 2021, 04:37:29 PM
			

			

				Flopped bad today. This loss was on him.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on October 03, 2021, 04:38:08 PM
			

			

				Agreed. And we didn't even have the excuse of a Thursday night game in Europe like they did.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ian. on October 03, 2021, 04:43:04 PM
			

			

				I’m not sure you can blame Smith for eleven players playing so poorly. We wasn’t pressing like we can and our passing and movement was woeful. I can’t think of one player out there who shined.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ads on October 03, 2021, 04:43:35 PM
			

			

				Players have to take a fair share of responsibility. With so many insipid displays and the in particular the heartbeat in McGinn being so inexplicably off with the fundamentals.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: wince on October 03, 2021, 04:47:20 PM
			

			

				On the players more than dean although the same complacency as the players. He needs to become a hairdryer as I suspect he is too soft and worried about upsetting the delicate egos. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ez on October 03, 2021, 04:47:22 PM
			

			

				I think we have to play Danny Ings from the bench for now. Watkins up top on his own worked well for us. Even feeding on scraps he was still scoring. Smith shouldn't feel obliged to start Ings every game.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on October 03, 2021, 04:47:33 PM
			

			

				Tough crowd if we're criticising him after every single defeat. Imagine if H&V had been around in 95/96 when SBL was losing to likes of QPR and Man. City away up to xmas. We know what happened three months later.

I get annoyed with his game management aswell but it's not like Buendia or Traore did much at all when they came in, El Ghazi probably would've been a better bet given he can stretch play when on form and we were getting plenty of space out wide.

Overall happy with what I've seen this season after disaster of first opening 70 minutes at Watford when we did look like a pub team.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on October 03, 2021, 04:55:56 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Ian. on October 03, 2021, 04:43:04 PM
I’m not sure you can blame Smith for eleven players playing so poorly. We wasn’t pressing like we can and our passing and movement was woeful. I can’t think of one player out there who shined.

It may have helped if Dean had a word with the team and asked them politely to try and keep the ball on the deck. As somebody mentioned in the match thread, we looked more like Wimbledon. I'd say that flattered us today, we were clueless.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ian. on October 03, 2021, 04:59:54 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on October 03, 2021, 04:55:56 PM
Quote from: Ian. on October 03, 2021, 04:43:04 PM
I’m not sure you can blame Smith for eleven players playing so poorly. We wasn’t pressing like we can and our passing and movement was woeful. I can’t think of one player out there who shined.

It may have helped if Dean had a word with the team and asked them politely to try and keep the ball on the deck. As somebody mentioned in the match thread, we looked more like Wimbledon. I'd say that flattered us today, we were clueless.

Maybe he did?

Something didn’t click on the pitch and you could see our confidence drain away.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on October 03, 2021, 05:03:00 PM
			

			

				Get the feeling we generally though Nuno would match us and go 3-5-2 today aswell. Was a surprise to me when I looked at their team and it was 4-3-3. He was bold and it paid off for him in the end.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: RamboandBruno on October 03, 2021, 05:12:44 PM
			

			

				Dont want to build Bailey up too much and we don’t want  another situation where there is an over reliance on one player, but from the cameo I’ve seen so far a 3 with him Ings and Watkins  could work and actually create some chances for them. Would mean dropping a CB out, but not sure we should stick rigidly to the 352 every week anyway. I though Targett did ok today, Cash was a bit off like so many, however even when they both play well, it still doesn’t provide the same width as a genuine wide attacker, this is the reason we’ve gone long ball at times today. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on October 03, 2021, 05:12:46 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: SoccerHQ on October 03, 2021, 05:03:00 PM
Get the feeling we generally though Nuno would match us and go 3-5-2 today aswell. Was a surprise to me when I looked at their team and it was 4-3-3. He was bold and it paid off for him in the end.

Not sure why, every team posted before the game on the Spurs forums had them playing 4-2-3-1.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: TonyD on October 03, 2021, 06:30:45 PM
			

			

				We have a decent bench.  Unacceptable not to have made changes at HT.  We could all see it wasn’t working.   
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Demitri_C on October 03, 2021, 06:34:01 PM
			

			

				You can blame smith. Should have taken ramsey out sooner than he did. He struggled badly out there.

Nakamba would have added some steel there for a cb. Deans changes came way too late.

Also the ings and watkins partnership has been  proper failure so far.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: N'ZMAV on October 03, 2021, 06:34:05 PM
			

			

				It did need changes at half time. Even though we had 3 midfielders we couldn't keep the ball. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on October 03, 2021, 06:56:14 PM
			

			

				Smith’s post match comments bear no relation to the game I just watched. Him at his delusional worst.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Demitri_C on October 03, 2021, 06:59:34 PM
			

			

				I didnt think we would get 6 points out if the last 3 so im happy with the return but smith got it completely wrong today. You could see how much space son was getting and we did nothing to prevent that.

We have enough star quality in this swuad to cause problems of our own and smith failed here against a poor spurs back four
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Bobby Boy on October 03, 2021, 07:37:04 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on October 03, 2021, 06:56:14 PM
Smith’s post match comments bear no relation to the game I just watched. Him at his delusional worst.

Dean saying that he sees no issues with the Ings - Watkins partnership which is an odd one as they clearly aren't clicking. To say that Ings has scored this season as though to confirm that we're creating chances for him again is a little off.

I understand that he is going to defend his players or his systems but I can't see why it can't be acknowledged that we're still a work in progress and that the Ings-Watkins partnership isn't quite there yet.

It begs the concern that he genuinely thinks everything is working out just fine. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Nunkin1965 on October 03, 2021, 07:43:04 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Bobby Boy on October 03, 2021, 07:37:04 PM
Quote from: Risso on October 03, 2021, 06:56:14 PM
Smith’s post match comments bear no relation to the game I just watched. Him at his delusional worst.

Dean saying that he sees no issues with the Ings - Watkins partnership which is an odd one as they clearly aren't clicking. To say that Ings has scored this season as though to confirm that we're creating chances for him again is a little off.

I understand that he is going to defend his players or his systems but I can't see why it can't be acknowledged that we're still a work in progress and that the Ings-Watkins partnership isn't quite there yet.

It begs the concern that he genuinely thinks everything is working out just fine.

I wonder if many post match comments are actually accurate though.
Managers give opinions but are always protective of their players.
It's not often you get them saying g I f****d up today!
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ozzjim on October 03, 2021, 07:59:07 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Demitri_C on October 03, 2021, 06:59:34 PM
I didnt think we would get 6 points out if the last 3 so im happy with the return but smith got it completely wrong today. You could see how much space son was getting and we did nothing to prevent that.

We have enough star quality in this swuad to cause problems of our own and smith failed here against a poor spurs back four

A top manager adjusts after 20 mins today to how much space Son was getting. He exploited all the holes in a 3-5-2. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Demitri_C on October 03, 2021, 08:45:49 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: ozzjim on October 03, 2021, 07:59:07 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on October 03, 2021, 06:59:34 PM
I didnt think we would get 6 points out if the last 3 so im happy with the return but smith got it completely wrong today. You could see how much space son was getting and we did nothing to prevent that.

We have enough star quality in this swuad to cause problems of our own and smith failed here against a poor spurs back four

A top manager adjusts after 20 mins today to how much space Son was getting. He exploited all the holes in a 3-5-2.

I said this before the game that the unchanged formation gives son space to play his dwadlh best and behold it happened. 

Very predictable and shows how amateur smith can be at times. Should have changed it after 45mins
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: brontebilly on October 03, 2021, 09:01:56 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Nunkin1965 on October 03, 2021, 07:43:04 PM
Quote from: Bobby Boy on October 03, 2021, 07:37:04 PM
Quote from: Risso on October 03, 2021, 06:56:14 PM
Smith’s post match comments bear no relation to the game I just watched. Him at his delusional worst.

Dean saying that he sees no issues with the Ings - Watkins partnership which is an odd one as they clearly aren't clicking. To say that Ings has scored this season as though to confirm that we're creating chances for him again is a little off.

I understand that he is going to defend his players or his systems but I can't see why it can't be acknowledged that we're still a work in progress and that the Ings-Watkins partnership isn't quite there yet.

It begs the concern that he genuinely thinks everything is working out just fine.

I wonder if many post match comments are actually accurate though.
Managers give opinions but are always protective of their players.
It's not often you get them saying g I f****d up today!

Deano often speaks a lot of sense post game, so much so we often wonder on here why he didn't correct during the game what he was able to assess afterwards. He seemed to be in a running battle with the ref and fourth official today for some reason. He had a good day the last day v United, it happens. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Monty on October 03, 2021, 09:07:17 PM
			

			

				I tend to treat what Deano tells us with a pinch of salt anyway, despite the odd honest insights and assessments.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on October 04, 2021, 12:16:41 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: brontebilly on October 03, 2021, 09:01:56 PM
Quote from: Nunkin1965 on October 03, 2021, 07:43:04 PM
Quote from: Bobby Boy on October 03, 2021, 07:37:04 PM
Quote from: Risso on October 03, 2021, 06:56:14 PM
Smith’s post match comments bear no relation to the game I just watched. Him at his delusional worst.

Dean saying that he sees no issues with the Ings - Watkins partnership which is an odd one as they clearly aren't clicking. To say that Ings has scored this season as though to confirm that we're creating chances for him again is a little off.

I understand that he is going to defend his players or his systems but I can't see why it can't be acknowledged that we're still a work in progress and that the Ings-Watkins partnership isn't quite there yet.

It begs the concern that he genuinely thinks everything is working out just fine.

I wonder if many post match comments are actually accurate though.
Managers give opinions but are always protective of their players.
It's not often you get them saying g I f****d up today!

Deano often speaks a lot of sense post game, so much so we often wonder on here why he didn't correct during the game what he was able to assess afterwards. He seemed to be in a running battle with the ref and fourth official today for some reason. He had a good day the last day v United, it happens. 

Think he's just one of those managers who trusts the starting 11 totally. No real shock to me we were unchanged and he usually likes to give them 60 minutes to sort things out and then eventually he decides to make a change afterwards.

I get the calls for earlier subs but let's be honest Traore and Buendia weren't very good at all when they came on.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: adrenachrome on October 04, 2021, 02:27:44 AM
			

			

				Ings/Watkins up front in a 3-5-2 isn't working, so you have to wonder how long D.S. will persist with it. 

What are the alternatives if both players start? 4-4-2 might work. D.S. is more used to playing 1 up top.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ROBBO on October 04, 2021, 02:39:38 AM
			

			

				I've said on another thread, love the way Dean handles the squad but would love someone different calling the shots during the game.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on October 04, 2021, 07:52:00 AM
			

			

				I’m not a big fan of the three centre backs thing
But it’s difficult to criticise when it’s proved to be successful in the last couple of games
So I’ve sort of shut up about it because especially against Man United it worked a treat
So it comes back to horses for courses but I just don’t think it’s great as a template for the future

It’s the old saying you only play three centre backs because the two you’ve got aren’t good enough
So although I have to admit it has had its success I just don’t think it’s going to work long-term
It’s alright having horses for courses but if a formation is not working then change it which we didn’t yesterday so it’s not horses for courses it’s rigid formations which don’t change when it’s going wrong

Often yesterday you had Mings and Konsa playing in midfield And in attacking positions at times when pushing forward which is fine I just rather have better players than them in forward positions, you know actual midfielders and forward players who have better delivery and skills


			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on October 04, 2021, 09:07:27 AM
			

			

				I'm not a fan of three centre backs either. It only worked against Everton when Bailey came on and provided some width, but you're not going to play him as a wing back for 90 minutes every week. It worked against Man U because all three defenders played well and we nicked a goal at the end, despite Ings and Bailey not really having any chances. It most certainly didn't work yesterday. I want to see a proper 4-3-3 please, along the lines of:

Martinez
Cash Konsa Mings Targett
McGinn Ramsey Luiz
Traore or Buendia Watkins Bailey

Ings and Watkins isn't working and I don't believe in shoehorning players in just because.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Mister E on October 04, 2021, 09:13:41 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: john e on October 04, 2021, 07:52:00 AM
It’s the old saying you only play three centre backs because the two you’ve got aren’t good enough
With respect, that rubbish! - you play it for several reasons; but - I'd argue - not exclusively.  Yesterday was the perfect opp for Dean to show his versatility by reverting to 4-3-3 at halftime, when the formation clearly wasn't working. He didn't; we lost.
With the squad he has, he should be able to mix it up with confidence and purpose - that's his challenge going forward.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Neil Hawkes on October 04, 2021, 09:41:02 AM
			

			

				I would like to see a little more persistence with Ollie & Ings together & would be interested to see the following combinations, (the last one is if Ollie & Ings is clearly not working):
4-3-1-2
cash-konsa-mings-targett
mcginn-luiz-ramsey
buendia
ings-watkins
4-1-3-2 (completely gung-ho)
cash-konsa-mings-targett
luiz(nakamba)
traore-buendia-bailey
ings-watkins
4-3-3
cash-konsa-mings-targett
mcginn-luiz-ramsey
traore-watkins-bailey

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Clampy on October 04, 2021, 09:46:42 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Mister E on October 04, 2021, 09:13:41 AM
Quote from: john e on October 04, 2021, 07:52:00 AM
It’s the old saying you only play three centre backs because the two you’ve got aren’t good enough
With respect, that rubbish! - you play it for several reasons; but - I'd argue - not exclusively.  Yesterday was the perfect opp for Dean to show his versatility by reverting to 4-3-3 at halftime, when the formation clearly wasn't working. He didn't; we lost.
With the squad he has, he should be able to mix it up with confidence and purpose - that's his challenge going forward.

No, I'm not sure about that either because Mings and Konsa were mostly very good last season. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on October 04, 2021, 10:18:01 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Clampy on October 04, 2021, 09:46:42 AM
Quote from: Mister E on October 04, 2021, 09:13:41 AM
Quote from: john e on October 04, 2021, 07:52:00 AM
It’s the old saying you only play three centre backs because the two you’ve got aren’t good enough
With respect, that rubbish! - you play it for several reasons; but - I'd argue - not exclusively.  Yesterday was the perfect opp for Dean to show his versatility by reverting to 4-3-3 at halftime, when the formation clearly wasn't working. He didn't; we lost.
With the squad he has, he should be able to mix it up with confidence and purpose - that's his challenge going forward.

No, I'm not sure about that either because Mings and Konsa were mostly very good last season. 

that's my point, they were, they don't need any shoring up or assistance in what they were already doing 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: RamboandBruno on October 04, 2021, 10:34:53 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: john e on October 04, 2021, 07:52:00 AM
I’m not a big fan of the three centre backs thing
But it’s difficult to criticise when it’s proved to be successful in the last couple of games
So I’ve sort of shut up about it because especially against Man United it worked a treat
So it comes back to horses for courses but I just don’t think it’s great as a template for the future

It’s the old saying you only play three centre backs because the two you’ve got aren’t good enough
So although I have to admit it has had its success I just don’t think it’s going to work long-term
It’s alright having horses for courses but if a formation is not working then change it which we didn’t yesterday so it’s not horses for courses it’s rigid formations which don’t change when it’s going wrong

Often yesterday you had Mings and Konsa playing in midfield And in attacking positions at times when pushing forward which is fine I just rather have better players than them in forward positions, you know actual midfielders and forward players who have better delivery and skills

What concerns me a bit is that Dean tends to pick a system and sticks to it rigidly. So for years its been more or less the 4231, now its the 352. I was hoping with the squad options we have now, it would be differing systems for different challenges, but this doesn’t appear to be the case. I think the 352 will work in some games and not others, i also think Ings and Watkins need more time, Ings got in some good positions yesterday but wasn’t  picked out, apart from the once by Targett. 
Maybe when Baileys back Smith will be a bit more flexible as i cant imagine Bailey being happy being a super sub. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ads on October 04, 2021, 10:35:13 AM
			

			

				If Bailey is fit, he starts against the Wolves. To give us balance, you'd expect Buendia to start the other side. Up toSith whether we go 433 or 442.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on October 04, 2021, 10:38:02 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: adrenachrome on October 04, 2021, 02:27:44 AM
Ings/Watkins up front in a 3-5-2 isn't working, so you have to wonder how long D.S. will persist with it. 

What are the alternatives if both players start? 4-4-2 might work. D.S. is more used to playing 1 up top.

You surely saw it end of the game. We played last 10 minutes with Ollie LW, Buendia in number 10 role and Traore wide right. So sub in Bailey for Traore and there you have a front 4 we'll probably start at some stage.

Only issue then is we get back to problems of McGinn and Luiz being overrun as the two in central midfield. Or just play it more as a 4-3-3 and have Buendia tucked into central midfield to press aswell but then he won't score or create as much and he'd be called a waste of money.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: brontebilly on October 04, 2021, 11:59:37 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: SoccerHQ on October 04, 2021, 10:38:02 AM
Quote from: adrenachrome on October 04, 2021, 02:27:44 AM
Ings/Watkins up front in a 3-5-2 isn't working, so you have to wonder how long D.S. will persist with it. 

What are the alternatives if both players start? 4-4-2 might work. D.S. is more used to playing 1 up top.

You surely saw it end of the game. We played last 10 minutes with Ollie LW, Buendia in number 10 role and Traore wide right. So sub in Bailey for Traore and there you have a front 4 we'll probably start at some stage.

Only issue then is we get back to problems of McGinn and Luiz being overrun as the two in central midfield. Or just play it more as a 4-3-3 and have Buendia tucked into central midfield to press aswell but then he won't score or create as much and he'd be called a waste of money.

That was a bizarre change really. Watkins ending up on the left wing after scoring. If anyone should have gone over there it should have been Buendia. 

Another thing was got on my wick yesterday was the amount of time we took with these long throws. Even getting Cash across the pitch to take them from the left side which was ridiculous. This was at a time we had the likes of Traore and Buendia on the pitch. We should have been keeping the ball on the floor and getting a nervy Spurs team to run around. 

Just think we are still a bit muddled in tactics, formation, style of play...big problem yesterday was that Smith failed to change it when it was clear it wasn't working from very early on.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Rico on October 04, 2021, 12:31:31 PM
			

			

				We shouldn't just rely on one system. Now that we have an improved squad we should try to vary the formation and keep the opposition guessing. 352 works well providing the wing backs can get forward and deliver accurate crosses, if they don't do that then it becomes a defensive formation which is fine if you are trying to shut out the opposition, but offers little in the way of attacking options. I'd like to see more variety from Dean from now on. Don't just abandon 352, but use it sparingly.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: London Villan on October 04, 2021, 12:40:37 PM
			

			

				352 is fine when you want to be compact. Remember it only really worked as an attacking formation when Bailey played as "wing back" but was further forward than the strikers on the pitch.


			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on October 04, 2021, 04:31:04 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on October 04, 2021, 09:07:27 AM
I'm not a fan of three centre backs either. It only worked against Everton when Bailey came on and provided some width, but you're not going to play him as a wing back for 90 minutes every week. It worked against Man U because all three defenders played well and we nicked a goal at the end, despite Ings and Bailey not really having any chances. It most certainly didn't work yesterday. I want to see a proper 4-3-3 please, along the lines of:

Martinez
Cash Konsa Mings Targett
McGinn Ramsey Luiz
Traore or Buendia Watkins Bailey

Ings and Watkins isn't working and I don't believe in shoehorning players in just because.
Agree with this, we also need to be able to change  when things are not working. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: dcdavecollett on October 05, 2021, 01:57:21 AM
			

			

				It's worth remembering that the 'ridiculous' idea of Cash wandering over to take long throws on the LHS led to the corner that we scored from at Old Truffles.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ez on October 05, 2021, 12:24:05 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Rico on October 04, 2021, 12:31:31 PM
We shouldn't just rely on one system. Now that we have an improved squad we should try to vary the formation and keep the opposition guessing. 352 works well providing the wing backs can get forward and deliver accurate crosses, if they don't do that then it becomes a defensive formation which is fine if you are trying to shut out the opposition, but offers little in the way of attacking options. I'd like to see more variety from Dean from now on. Don't just abandon 352, but use it sparingly.

I agree. I think keeping the same team and formation because it worked well in the previous match is old fashioned thinking. We need to approach each match individually. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: boozey182 on October 05, 2021, 02:05:10 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: ez on October 05, 2021, 12:24:05 PM
Quote from: Rico on October 04, 2021, 12:31:31 PM
We shouldn't just rely on one system. Now that we have an improved squad we should try to vary the formation and keep the opposition guessing. 352 works well providing the wing backs can get forward and deliver accurate crosses, if they don't do that then it becomes a defensive formation which is fine if you are trying to shut out the opposition, but offers little in the way of attacking options. I'd like to see more variety from Dean from now on. Don't just abandon 352, but use it sparingly.

I agree. I think keeping the same team and formation because it worked well in the previous match is old fashioned thinking. We need to approach each match individually. 

I absolutely agree with this, but at the same time it puts a lot more pressure on Dean.

If he's changing the system regularly to outwit the opposing manager, then when it goes wrong, he is going to take a lot more flak. The fans and media are already a lot more reactionary these days, but by tinkering with the tactics I think he is inviting a lot more pressure on himself than if we had one setup, and sometimes it worked and sometimes it didn't - I think defeats are much more easily written off as 'one of those days' when you play the same system every week and it often works.

Having said that, I am delighted to have a manager that is prepared, and confident enough, to put themselves in the firing line like this. Of course, when it goes well he gets plenty of credit, but I don't think that is what drives him - he just wants to become the best he can be, and so is willing to change and adapt. He is the polar opposite of our previous manager.

Personally, against most teams in the league, I would be tempted to play a similar lineup to Risso's. I'm sure that was the initial plan for the season, with Ings being bought in as a (pretty expensive) Plan B - that signing in itself points to the fact that we are taking adaptability seriously this year. We should save the 3-5-2 for games that suit it - Man United away certainly worked, and it seems strange to point to a 3-0 defeat as evidence, but we certainly looked alright against Chelsea as well - I understand why Dean went with it against Spurs, especially without Bailey, but it didn't work so he needs to take responsibility for that (and he will). We'll need a different plan for the teams like Burnley, and another one for the teams like West Ham and Leeds - teams we struggled against last year.

I think this is the position we're at - we are a decent team, and have a pretty deep squad now - where we can improve on last year is by becoming a bit more difficult and unpredictable to play against. If Dean gets it right more often than he doesn't, we'll have a great season. If he doesn't, we may be looking for a new manager next summer - I really hope we aren't.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: OCD on October 06, 2021, 11:35:46 AM
			

			

				I imagine he looked at the games between the international breaks as a block of games where he could have a similar set-up and shape where everyone knew their jobs. It worked well in 2 of them and I can understand him keeping it the same for the third. If he had changed things and it hadn't worked, everyone would have been asking why he changed things. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: chrisw1 on October 06, 2021, 12:27:48 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on October 04, 2021, 09:07:27 AM
I'm not a fan of three centre backs either. It only worked against Everton when Bailey came on and provided some width, but you're not going to play him as a wing back for 90 minutes every week. It worked against Man U because all three defenders played well and we nicked a goal at the end, despite Ings and Bailey not really having any chances. It most certainly didn't work yesterday. I want to see a proper 4-3-3 please, along the lines of:

Martinez
Cash Konsa Mings Targett
McGinn Ramsey Luiz
Traore or Buendia Watkins Bailey

Ings and Watkins isn't working and I don't believe in shoehorning players in just because.
This is exactly where I'm at.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Big Ming on October 10, 2021, 07:30:59 AM
			

			

				Playing Watkins and Ings together is just not working, resulting in both of them under-performing so far.

Time for a tactical re-think?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ez on October 10, 2021, 03:13:27 PM
			

			

				Ings is back up for Watkins not a strike partner. Smith should not be scared to play just one of them.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Percy McCarthy on October 10, 2021, 03:41:11 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: ez on October 10, 2021, 03:13:27 PM
Ings is back up for Watkins not a strike partner. Smith should not be scared to play just one of them.

Do we know what Ings was told in negotiations?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: dave.woodhall on October 10, 2021, 04:01:25 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Percy McCarthy on October 10, 2021, 03:41:11 PM
Quote from: ez on October 10, 2021, 03:13:27 PM
Ings is back up for Watkins not a strike partner. Smith should not be scared to play just one of them.

Do we know what Ings was told in negotiations?

The Villa want you. Sign and be grateful. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on October 11, 2021, 03:17:09 AM
			

			

				This is good: 

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: sid1964 on October 11, 2021, 06:35:39 AM
			

			

				On a recent Villa podcast, the presenters said that Dean will be signing a new contract in the next few weeks
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Mister E on October 11, 2021, 11:57:21 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on October 11, 2021, 03:17:09 AM
This is good: 

Thanks - a good watch / listen.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: brontebilly on October 11, 2021, 01:34:36 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Big Ming on October 10, 2021, 07:30:59 AM
Playing Watkins and Ings together is just not working, resulting in both of them under-performing so far.

Time for a tactical re-think?

Guess that's what international breaks are for. Would have been better for us if Watkins hadn't been picked this time, his form hardly warranted it either. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: RamboandBruno on October 11, 2021, 02:13:11 PM
			

			

				Thought that was excellent. What a top bloke Dean Smith is
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: VILLA MOLE on October 11, 2021, 04:44:13 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Mister E on October 11, 2021, 11:57:21 AM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on October 11, 2021, 03:17:09 AM
This is good: 

Thanks - a good watch / listen.


You cant help like/love him 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on October 12, 2021, 04:45:14 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on October 11, 2021, 03:17:09 AM
This is good: 


It really is. If he can blend the summer signings into a team that’s greater than the sum of its parts, and play the sort of football that raises comparisons with 76/7 that we played pre-Christmas (where it looked like the team were playing for the sheer joy of it) he can become a legend.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on October 13, 2021, 11:05:38 AM
			

			

				It looks like he has gone with the new 3 5 2 to shoehorn Tunzabe and Ings.
I think this is a mistake.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on October 13, 2021, 11:13:06 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: ChicagoLion on October 13, 2021, 11:05:38 AM
It looks like he has gone with the new 3 5 2 to shoehorn Tunzabe and Ings.
I think this is a mistake.

That's the spirit!
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on October 13, 2021, 11:17:23 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on October 13, 2021, 11:13:06 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on October 13, 2021, 11:05:38 AM
It looks like he has gone with the new 3 5 2 to shoehorn Tunzabe and Ings.
I think this is a mistake.

That's the spirit!
So you think he always wanted to play 3 -5-2 despite publicly saying he does not like the idea.

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Footy-Vill on October 15, 2021, 08:53:15 PM
			

			

				Wolves manager Lange on Dean Smith 

"When you look at the games they did since the beginning of the season, you can see the way they play, so I know Dean’s work since he was at Brentford, we played against him when I was at Sheffield Wednesday, so know his style, it’s a little bit like ours.

He wants to play, he has three midfielders who try to link the ball, so it’s going to be a good game for us, and I think the most important thing for both teams is to understand what they need to do when they have the ball to create problems for the opponent.”


			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: kippaxvilla2 on October 15, 2021, 11:14:49 PM
			

			

				Did anyone think Dean looked thoroughly pissed off throughout today’s press conference?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: brontebilly on October 16, 2021, 12:06:09 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: ChicagoLion on October 13, 2021, 11:05:38 AM
It looks like he has gone with the new 3 5 2 to shoehorn Tunzabe and Ings.
I think this is a mistake.

Agreed on Ings but it's a temporary fudge I reckon. He has spent a lot of money on Buendia, Bailey and Traore too, none of them fit in that system. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: tomd2103 on October 16, 2021, 09:30:08 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: brontebilly on October 16, 2021, 12:06:09 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on October 13, 2021, 11:05:38 AM
It looks like he has gone with the new 3 5 2 to shoehorn Tunzabe and Ings.
I think this is a mistake.

Agreed on Ings but it's a temporary fudge I reckon. He has spent a lot of money on Buendia, Bailey and Traore too, none of them fit in that system.

Disagree mate, as I feel all three could play a couple of positions in that formation.  They could play as an advanced midfielder with two defensive midfielders behind them or could play in a free role in the two up top with either Ings or Watkins.  Would especially like to see Bailey in that kind of role.

As for CL's point, not so sure about Tuanzebe, but definitely think part of the reason to moving to 3-5-2 was to have Watkins and Ings playing centrally without losing the three in midfield.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on October 16, 2021, 09:51:22 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: tomd2103 on October 16, 2021, 09:30:08 AM
Quote from: brontebilly on October 16, 2021, 12:06:09 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on October 13, 2021, 11:05:38 AM
It looks like he has gone with the new 3 5 2 to shoehorn Tunzabe and Ings.
I think this is a mistake.

Agreed on Ings but it's a temporary fudge I reckon. He has spent a lot of money on Buendia, Bailey and Traore too, none of them fit in that system.

Disagree mate, as I feel all three could play a couple of positions in that formation.  They could play as an advanced midfielder with two defensive midfielders behind them or could play in a free role in the two up top with either Ings or Watkins.  Would especially like to see Bailey in that kind of role.

As for CL's point, not so sure about Tuanzebe, but definitely think part of the reason to moving to 3-5-2 was to have Watkins and Ings playing centrally without losing the three in midfield.
it seems like a lot of changes, or is he saying he can’t play 4 3 3 now the idiot has gone?
I don’t like 5 3 2 as our go to plan as when it isn’t working I don’t see Smith changing it.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on October 16, 2021, 05:02:22 PM
			

			

				Really really hope that last 10 minutes isn't his Moscow/Stoke 2009 moment and just a freak last 10 minutes.

Dosen't help himself at times. 10 minutes left, we're 2 up and he puts Young on instead of Hause? And then we defend two set pieces horribly and just throw away the game which even by our usual standards is awful.

Lose at Arsenal and suddenly the season will be going south and not a good time given the investment to have a two month winless run.

Not sure what it is with our mentality when we have a really good win in the season our form immediately starts to drop off straight after.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on October 16, 2021, 05:06:38 PM
			

			

				Absolute shambles. That result is purely on him. Shit tactics, shit organisation and shit subs. He can fuck off, useless.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Villan82 on October 16, 2021, 05:07:55 PM
			

			

				Criminal. Pissed the points away.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Toronto Villa on October 16, 2021, 05:08:05 PM
			

			

				Most people on here are too shocked at what just happened to even provide rational thought. That was a collapse as bad as one we have ever seen in recent years. From the moment we scored it was all them. It wasn’t all the manager but once again the was out thought and out coached. Absolutely fucking embarrassing and especially so with one of the owners of the club in attendance. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: LukeJames on October 16, 2021, 05:08:12 PM
			

			

				That is up there with Bradford. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: wince on October 16, 2021, 05:08:46 PM
			

			

				That was pure capitulation and if it’s to be another losing streak then serious questions need asking. Can’t see us beating arsenal. Knee jerk but if we don’t learn from this then what is the point? 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: kippaxvilla2 on October 16, 2021, 05:08:47 PM
			

			

				Smith Out.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on October 16, 2021, 05:09:25 PM
			

			

				He's not the Messiah, that's for sure.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Holy Trinity on October 16, 2021, 05:10:47 PM
			

			

				Sack him already. We have know for a long time he's not the man to take us to glory. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: mike on October 16, 2021, 05:10:54 PM
			

			

				This doesn’t say much for the resilience of the team. Not necessarily Dean’s fault but this really doesn’t reflect well on the mentality he has instilled in them. I think he’s got one more fuck up before Christmas or he will get the boot. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: kippaxvilla2 on October 16, 2021, 05:12:14 PM
			

			

				Did he really bring Young on instead of a Centre Half when leading?!
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: wittonwarrior on October 16, 2021, 05:12:33 PM
			

			

				We’re hit and miss same as last season
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: villa for life on October 16, 2021, 05:12:39 PM
			

			

				He’ll be a good manager in the premier league one day, but he needs a few more years, and we just can’t wait. 

We need someone who knows the premier league well. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: wince on October 16, 2021, 05:14:02 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on October 16, 2021, 05:12:14 PM
Did he really bring Young on instead of a Centre Half when leading?!

Yep. 3 shit goals as well. Basics not drilled. I just see another bleak patch. And having to suffer Mel eaves on wm makes it worse 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: mike on October 16, 2021, 05:14:41 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: villa for life on October 16, 2021, 05:12:39 PM
He’ll be a good manager in the premier league one day, but he needs a few more years, and we just can’t wait. 

We need someone who knows the premier league well. 

Steve Bruce might be available soon…
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: kippaxvilla2 on October 16, 2021, 05:16:57 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: wince on October 16, 2021, 05:14:02 PM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on October 16, 2021, 05:12:14 PM
Did he really bring Young on instead of a Centre Half when leading?!

Just don’t listen to Wolves Media then.  Daz Fcukin Hale is another Cnut.

Yep. 3 shit goals as well. Basics not drilled. I just see another bleak patch. And having to suffer Mel eaves on wm makes it worse 

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on October 16, 2021, 05:18:07 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on October 16, 2021, 05:08:47 PM
Smith Out.

Too fucking right. Dismal.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on October 16, 2021, 05:18:29 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: wince on October 16, 2021, 05:14:02 PM
Quote from: kippaxvilla2 on October 16, 2021, 05:12:14 PM
Did he really bring Young on instead of a Centre Half when leading?!

Yep. 3 shit goals as well. Basics not drilled. I just see another bleak patch. And having to suffer Mel eaves on wm makes it worse 

On come on, that second goal was a brilliant bit of football, recycled the ball, sharp passing and a great ball into the box. Wolves are still, on their day, a very decent footballing side where everybody knows their job. We on the other hand..fuck knows. We're still relying on Mings to hoof it down the left.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: TonyD on October 16, 2021, 05:19:58 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: villa for life on October 16, 2021, 05:12:39 PM
He’ll be a good manager in the premier league one day, but he needs a few more years, and we just can’t wait. 

We need someone who knows the premier league well. 
It doesn’t take years to do the basics.  He can’t even do that.  
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: TonyD on October 16, 2021, 05:21:30 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on October 16, 2021, 05:09:25 PM
He's not the Messiah, that's for sure.
He’s a very naughty boy. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: curiousorange on October 16, 2021, 05:21:59 PM
			

			

				So, for the nine millionth time (given that many of us can't see him getting the season after this), who's a decent and realistic replacement?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: villa for life on October 16, 2021, 05:23:06 PM
			

			

				JT must be having a few thoughts tonight.. he’s ambitious as heck..
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Uknowthescore on October 16, 2021, 05:24:09 PM
			

			

				Hope he goes he’s took us as far as he could  
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: curiousorange on October 16, 2021, 05:24:24 PM
			

			

				Terry would be a humongous gamble. Not managed a team but we're looking for Europe within the next couple of seasons.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on October 16, 2021, 05:24:43 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: curiousorange on October 16, 2021, 05:21:59 PM
So, for the nine millionth time (given that many of us can't see him getting the season after this), who's a decent and realistic replacement?

Or put another way, who wants to earn £5m a year?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: kippaxvilla2 on October 16, 2021, 05:24:49 PM
			

			

				In the same way it’s not my job to sack him, it’s also not my job to replace him.  I think we will finish lower than last season.  If that is acceptable then fine we can become Charlton under Curbishley.  If we really are ambitious, then maybe it’s time to review it.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: wince on October 16, 2021, 05:25:10 PM
			

			

				Not John fucking terry. This isn’t the manager training camp
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: villa for life on October 16, 2021, 05:27:56 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: wince on October 16, 2021, 05:25:10 PM
Not John fucking terry. This isn’t the manager training camp

It seems to be at the moment!
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Villan82 on October 16, 2021, 05:29:24 PM
			

			

				If we ever want to challenge for honours again we need to aim for a big manager. It's too long since we had a top class manager, somebody other clubs would covet. Since Little, MON is the only one who comes close. Smith has potential but ultimately he doesn't seem to be progressing fast enough. A top premier league manager does not lose that today. Spurs at home in his first season should have been ample warning to make ssure you don't come out of a game like that empty handed.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: TonyD on October 16, 2021, 05:32:19 PM
			

			

				Maybe Dean just needs a subs coach.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: dicedlam on October 16, 2021, 05:32:37 PM
			

			

				Not only should Smith take the blame for that shit show, but also the rest of the coaching staff because it seems to me it is a collective decision when deciding on what substitutions are to be made. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: curiousorange on October 16, 2021, 05:33:30 PM
			

			

				Screw it, Rangnick's too good to be pratting about with Lokomotiv Moscow. Bring the gegenpresser supreme to the Prem.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: pauliewalnuts on October 16, 2021, 05:33:34 PM
			

			

				I hope he doesn’t get a minutes sleep for the next few days after that. 

Woeful. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: villa for life on October 16, 2021, 05:33:51 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: TonyD on October 16, 2021, 05:32:19 PM
Maybe Dean just needs a subs coach.

That’s actually a good idea, along with a tactics coach, a formation coach etc
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: LukeJames on October 16, 2021, 05:37:28 PM
			

			

				Losing 2-3 with 10 minutes left when 2-0 up is disgusting. Blokes out of his depth.

Up there with Bradford. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on October 16, 2021, 05:49:32 PM
			

			

				Conte's probably the sort of manager Newcastle will properly target in 2-3 seasons so would be some statement to go for that type. We're already training the squad in 3-5-2 most games....

Luciene Favre generally done well at most clubs he's managed in last 15 years so that would be more realistic pick for where we're at.

This idea that Dean Smith is only manager in world football worthy or capable of managing us looks a little bit misguided when last 10 minutes like today happens.

Hopefully he learns from it. Given our general fixture list for next 2 months I'd be very concerned if we're plodding around 12/13th when we hit December and wouldn't shock me if owners decide he's taken us as far as he could at that point.

At 2 up today we were 7th so I don't see battling for that position as some sort of ridiculous demand. Many teams below the top 4 are very average currently like Spurs and Arsenal and when everyone is fully fit we have a pretty good squad in most positions.

If DS isn't capable of that then we need a rethink otherwise Newcastle will just overtake us in near future and they'll be another team we won't finish above for many seasons like Spurs, Everton, Leicester, West Ham etc.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ez on October 16, 2021, 05:52:40 PM
			

			

				At least we've seen the last of 3 at the back and 2 up top. Our goals against feels nothing like last season. Neither does our strike force.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: PaulWinch again on October 16, 2021, 05:59:07 PM
			

			

				The thing is Dean has got us to mid table and that’s what we look like - a wildly inconsistent team who can pull off a couple of excellent performances and then turn in some shockers (either whole games or enough of a game to lose it). Dean won’t have too long to prove he can take us on the next step I suspect. His game management was badly wanting again today.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: malckennedy on October 16, 2021, 05:59:34 PM
			

			

				I think Dean Smith is a really good bloke. I also think he’s an ok coach. Unfortunately though we need someone who is better than ok.

I’ve thought this for quite a while.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: PaulWinch again on October 16, 2021, 06:01:11 PM
			

			

				He needs a big performance at Arsenal now.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on October 16, 2021, 06:02:47 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: PaulWinch again on October 16, 2021, 05:59:07 PM
The thing is Dean has got us to mid table and that’s what we look like - a wildly inconsistent team who can pull off a couple of excellent performances and then turn in some shockers (either whole games or enough of a game to lose it). Dean won’t have too long to prove he can take us on the next step I suspect. His game management was badly wanting again today.

Nothing wrong with wanting a little more sometimes though?

Go back 2-3 years and Leicester were bumbling around in bottom half despite having a squad full of proven quality and potential. Since they sacked Claude Puel, they appointed proven manager, won FA cup and been very close to finishing 4th in two seperate seasons.

I get it's different for us but not sure for how many more years we can play the "we only had two decent players when promoted" line. Since then we've spent 200m + and now have a good squad in most positions when all fit.

Depends what people want really. Just loitering around in bottom half and won't take long for Newcastle to pass us with what they're likely to sign in next 18 months.

Think we also need some form of european qualification in near future to keep likes of Martinez and Luiz and they're two of our most important players.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: GarTomas on October 16, 2021, 06:10:12 PM
			

			

				What exactly should Dean of done differently today?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: LukeJames on October 16, 2021, 06:11:12 PM
			

			

				Losing a 2 goal lead with 10 minutes to go is unacceptable.

The first 2 goals were pathetic to conceed. 

Get him gone asap. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Vegas on October 16, 2021, 06:16:04 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: LukeJames on October 16, 2021, 06:11:12 PM
Losing a 2 goal lead with 10 minutes to go is unacceptable.

The first 2 goals were pathetic to conceed. 

Get him gone asap.

This is a genuine question - do you think any team which surrenders a two goal lead should sack their manager? 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on October 16, 2021, 06:16:36 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: GarTomas on October 16, 2021, 06:10:12 PM
What exactly should Dean of done differently today?

Bring Hause on?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: wince on October 16, 2021, 06:18:03 PM
			

			

				yes if manager does fuck all to change mentality. He is too soft. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: GarTomas on October 16, 2021, 06:18:13 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: SoccerHQ on October 16, 2021, 06:16:36 PM
Quote from: GarTomas on October 16, 2021, 06:10:12 PM
What exactly should Dean of done differently today?

Bring Hause on?

For who?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: curiousorange on October 16, 2021, 06:18:42 PM
			

			

				I can't bear to look it up, but how different points/goal wise are we from when we gave Leicester those three goals in 2015?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: GarTomas on October 16, 2021, 06:19:34 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: curiousorange on October 16, 2021, 06:18:42 PM
I can't bear to look it up, but how different points/goal wise are we from when we gave Leicester those three goals in 2015?

Behave.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: N'ZMAV on October 16, 2021, 06:20:13 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: GarTomas on October 16, 2021, 06:10:12 PM
What exactly should Dean of done differently today?
 Could have taken a forward off to make the midfield stronger.

Got the team up the pitch a bit - they dropped too deep.

Advised them to calm down and try and keep the ball better.

Doubled up on Traore.

got Ings or Watkins to drop deeper and man mark Neves.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Nii Lamptey on October 16, 2021, 06:23:38 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: GarTomas on October 16, 2021, 06:18:13 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on October 16, 2021, 06:16:36 PM
Quote from: GarTomas on October 16, 2021, 06:10:12 PM
What exactly should Dean of done differently today?

Bring Hause on?

For who?

Should have brought Hause on for Cash, and pushed Konsa or Axel out to RB. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on October 16, 2021, 06:24:45 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: GarTomas on October 16, 2021, 06:18:13 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on October 16, 2021, 06:16:36 PM
Quote from: GarTomas on October 16, 2021, 06:10:12 PM
What exactly should Dean of done differently today?

Bring Hause on?

For who?

When we took Cash off. Put Hause in and move Kons/Axel to RB?

When you're 2 up it's all about closing down space and defending set pieces which Hause is best defender at club for doing. For all Young's experience his skillset isn't heading away balls from corners is it.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: nick harper on October 16, 2021, 06:24:59 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: GarTomas on October 16, 2021, 06:10:12 PM
What exactly should Dean of done differently today?

I couldn’t understand him taking Buendia off. He was pressing well and looked a threat every time he had the ball. Ramsey never got up to the pace of the game.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Clampy on October 16, 2021, 06:25:32 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: GarTomas on October 16, 2021, 06:18:13 PM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on October 16, 2021, 06:16:36 PM
Quote from: GarTomas on October 16, 2021, 06:10:12 PM
What exactly should Dean of done differently today?

Bring Hause on?

For who?

Cash, when he went off and maybe putting Axrl at right back.

I'm not going to join the knee jerk fuck off Smith camp but today was on him. It was inevitable that Ramsey was going to come on at some point and I can't see what he brings at the moment, it just weakend us. Nakamba for Luiz was at least understandable. They should never have scored, never mind three. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ads on October 16, 2021, 06:25:48 PM
			

			

				Entirely his fault for that shambles. Absolutely abysmal. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Vegas on October 16, 2021, 06:33:43 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: nick harper on October 16, 2021, 06:24:59 PM
Quote from: GarTomas on October 16, 2021, 06:10:12 PM
What exactly should Dean of done differently today?

I couldn’t understand him taking Buendia off. He was pressing well and looked a threat every time he had the ball. Ramsey never got up to the pace of the game.

Buendia asked to come off, knackered
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Villan82 on October 16, 2021, 06:34:01 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: curiousorange on October 16, 2021, 06:18:42 PM
I can't bear to look it up, but how different points/goal wise are we from when we gave Leicester those three goals in 2015?

We have 6 more points today than that day.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: adrenachrome on October 16, 2021, 06:43:02 PM
			

			

				Today's result was a sickening kick in the gonads of the sort where you think there might be lasting repercussions.   

D.S. has never had such a squad of players, and has spent most of his career playing with one man up front. He has stated many times that he he doesn't like playing 3 at the back, yet that is what we are doing. Ings and Watkins as a front 2 hasn't worked - most games one of them looks pissed off.
 This season is going to be a roller coaster ride with unexpected results. Not what we wanted or expected.
On the plus side, I wagered a substantial spread bet on the aggregate score. You have to get your jollies where you may.     

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on October 16, 2021, 06:43:07 PM
			

			

				We only need another 6 wins and a few draws to stay up.

I can be negative at times but blimey if we're in any serious danger of relegation this season they'll certainly be a change of manager.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: LukeJames on October 16, 2021, 07:00:10 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Vegas on October 16, 2021, 06:16:04 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on October 16, 2021, 06:11:12 PM
Losing a 2 goal lead with 10 minutes to go is unacceptable.

The first 2 goals were pathetic to conceed. 

Get him gone asap.

This is a genuine question - do you think any team which surrenders a two goal lead should sack their manager?
With 10 minutes to go? Yes. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ian. on October 16, 2021, 07:08:57 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: LukeJames on October 16, 2021, 07:00:10 PM
Quote from: Vegas on October 16, 2021, 06:16:04 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on October 16, 2021, 06:11:12 PM
Losing a 2 goal lead with 10 minutes to go is unacceptable.

The first 2 goals were pathetic to conceed. 

Get him gone asap.

This is a genuine question - do you think any team which surrenders a two goal lead should sack their manager?
With 10 minutes to go? Yes. 

He's made a right gaff in the second half, but to suggest to get him gone asap is bonkers. Maybe Klopp should have been sacked being mauled by a Smith side last season.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Demitri_C on October 16, 2021, 07:09:51 PM
			

			

				Another year of no European football.

Miles away from europe
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: LukeJames on October 16, 2021, 07:12:39 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Ian. on October 16, 2021, 07:08:57 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on October 16, 2021, 07:00:10 PM
Quote from: Vegas on October 16, 2021, 06:16:04 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on October 16, 2021, 06:11:12 PM
Losing a 2 goal lead with 10 minutes to go is unacceptable.

The first 2 goals were pathetic to conceed. 

Get him gone asap.

This is a genuine question - do you think any team which surrenders a two goal lead should sack their manager?
With 10 minutes to go? Yes. 

He's made a right gaff in the second half, but to suggest to get him gone asap is bonkers. Maybe Klopp should have been sacked being mauled by a Smith side last season.
Did Klopp lose 2-3 after being 2-0 up with  ten minutes to go?

I cant get my head around how bad that management was. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: curiousorange on October 16, 2021, 07:13:21 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Villan82 on October 16, 2021, 06:34:01 PM
Quote from: curiousorange on October 16, 2021, 06:18:42 PM
I can't bear to look it up, but how different points/goal wise are we from when we gave Leicester those three goals in 2015?

We have 6 more points today than that day.

Ta. Things could definitely be worse then.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: steamer on October 16, 2021, 07:17:18 PM
			

			

				I doubt the owners intend us to hover between midtable and 8th
If Dean cannot move it on, I guess they will look elsewhere
Chelsea do not fuck about , and it seems to work
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ian. on October 16, 2021, 07:17:23 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: LukeJames on October 16, 2021, 07:12:39 PM
Quote from: Ian. on October 16, 2021, 07:08:57 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on October 16, 2021, 07:00:10 PM
Quote from: Vegas on October 16, 2021, 06:16:04 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on October 16, 2021, 06:11:12 PM
Losing a 2 goal lead with 10 minutes to go is unacceptable.

The first 2 goals were pathetic to conceed. 

Get him gone asap.

This is a genuine question - do you think any team which surrenders a two goal lead should sack their manager?
With 10 minutes to go? Yes. 

He's made a right gaff in the second half, but to suggest to get him gone asap is bonkers. Maybe Klopp should have been sacked being mauled by a Smith side last season.
Did Klopp lose 2-3 after being 2-0 up with  ten minutes to go?

I cant get my head around how bad that management was. 

No but it to lose 7-2 to a team nearly relegated the season before could be classed as very bad management. Other teams have lost a 2, or 3 goal lead. You don’t sack the manager.

Shit happens and he has certainly cocked up with the use of players in the closing 15 minutes, I’ll give you that. He’s been nothing short of excellent since he’s taken us over, we’ve had a few shit periods, but teams in transition do this. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on October 16, 2021, 07:19:09 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: ChicagoLion on October 16, 2021, 09:51:22 AM
Quote from: tomd2103 on October 16, 2021, 09:30:08 AM
Quote from: brontebilly on October 16, 2021, 12:06:09 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on October 13, 2021, 11:05:38 AM
It looks like he has gone with the new 3 5 2 to shoehorn Tunzabe and Ings.
I think this is a mistake.

Agreed on Ings but it's a temporary fudge I reckon. He has spent a lot of money on Buendia, Bailey and Traore too, none of them fit in that system.

Disagree mate, as I feel all three could play a couple of positions in that formation.  They could play as an advanced midfielder with two defensive midfielders behind them or could play in a free role in the two up top with either Ings or Watkins.  Would especially like to see Bailey in that kind of role.

As for CL's point, not so sure about Tuanzebe, but definitely think part of the reason to moving to 3-5-2 was to have Watkins and Ings playing centrally without losing the three in midfield.
it seems like a lot of changes, or is he saying he can’t play 4 3 3 now the idiot has gone?
I don’t like 5 3 2 as our go to plan as when it isn’t working I don’t see Smith changing it.
today was a case in point.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: London Villan on October 16, 2021, 07:19:53 PM
			

			

				I still think we are the Premier League version of Dean Smiths Brentford. We have the capacity to play amazing football and win against the best, but also to be unbelievably average and go on poor runs.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: LukeJames on October 16, 2021, 07:21:23 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Ian. on October 16, 2021, 07:17:23 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on October 16, 2021, 07:12:39 PM
Quote from: Ian. on October 16, 2021, 07:08:57 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on October 16, 2021, 07:00:10 PM
Quote from: Vegas on October 16, 2021, 06:16:04 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on October 16, 2021, 06:11:12 PM
Losing a 2 goal lead with 10 minutes to go is unacceptable.

The first 2 goals were pathetic to conceed. 

Get him gone asap.

This is a genuine question - do you think any team which surrenders a two goal lead should sack their manager?
With 10 minutes to go? Yes. 

He's made a right gaff in the second half, but to suggest to get him gone asap is bonkers. Maybe Klopp should have been sacked being mauled by a Smith side last season.
Did Klopp lose 2-3 after being 2-0 up with  ten minutes to go?

I cant get my head around how bad that management was. 
 Other teams have lost a 2, or 3 goal lead. You don’t sack the manager. 
With 10 minutes too go? Who? 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: martin o`who?? on October 16, 2021, 07:22:59 PM
			

			

				Suddenly Smith is being criticised for us giving away a two goal lead and losing 3-2 but I seem to remember us doing that very same thing under the great Ron Saunders in 1979 against Spurs at VP - we were 2:0 up with nine minutes to go and lost 3:2 with Hoddle chipping Rimmer for the Winner down the Witton.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: pauliewalnuts on October 16, 2021, 07:24:16 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: martin o`who?? on October 16, 2021, 07:22:59 PM
Suddenly Smith is being criticised for us giving away a two goal lead and losing 3-2 but I seem to remember us doing that very same thing under the great Ron Saunders in1979 against Spurs at VP - we were 2:0 up with nine minutes to go and lost 3:2 with Hoddle chipping Rimmer for the Winner down the Witton.

What's that got to do with anything? You're comparing two individual matches in isolation with no regard to what has happened in previous matches.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on October 16, 2021, 07:24:30 PM
			

			

				I love Dean and think he's perfect for us in every possible way with one exception; the football. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ian. on October 16, 2021, 07:24:43 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: LukeJames on October 16, 2021, 07:21:23 PM
Quote from: Ian. on October 16, 2021, 07:17:23 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on October 16, 2021, 07:12:39 PM
Quote from: Ian. on October 16, 2021, 07:08:57 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on October 16, 2021, 07:00:10 PM
Quote from: Vegas on October 16, 2021, 06:16:04 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on October 16, 2021, 06:11:12 PM
Losing a 2 goal lead with 10 minutes to go is unacceptable.

The first 2 goals were pathetic to conceed. 

Get him gone asap.

This is a genuine question - do you think any team which surrenders a two goal lead should sack their manager?
With 10 minutes to go? Yes. 

He's made a right gaff in the second half, but to suggest to get him gone asap is bonkers. Maybe Klopp should have been sacked being mauled by a Smith side last season.
Did Klopp lose 2-3 after being 2-0 up with  ten minutes to go?

I cant get my head around how bad that management was. 
 Other teams have lost a 2, or 3 goal lead. You don’t sack the manager. 
With 10 minutes too go? Who? 
You still don’t sack the manager because of this. Christ almighty.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: pauliewalnuts on October 16, 2021, 07:26:16 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on October 16, 2021, 07:24:30 PM
I love Dean and think he's perfect for us in every possible way with one exception; the football. 

Joking apart, the problem is game management.

I think he's a decent coach and a good 'manager' in a lot of senses, but when it comes to game management, he tends to do three things way too often - make NO changes, make changes too late, or make the wrong ones.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Demitri_C on October 16, 2021, 07:28:00 PM
			

			

				This reminds me of the leeds game when we lost 3-2 at villa park. You dont get unlucky twice. 

Smiths not leading us to Europe any time soon i am afraid. A truly dreadful result
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: PaulWinch again on October 16, 2021, 07:29:13 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on October 16, 2021, 07:26:16 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on October 16, 2021, 07:24:30 PM
I love Dean and think he's perfect for us in every possible way with one exception; the football. 

Joking apart, the problem is game management.

I think he's a decent coach and a good 'manager' in a lot of senses, but when it comes to game management, he tends to do three things way too often - make NO changes, make changes too late, or make the wrong ones.

Yep it’s very rare you can point to situations where Dean has been able to change things in a positive way once things go against us. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ian. on October 16, 2021, 07:29:40 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on October 16, 2021, 07:26:16 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on October 16, 2021, 07:24:30 PM
I love Dean and think he's perfect for us in every possible way with one exception; the football. 

Joking apart, the problem is game management.

I think he's a decent coach and a good 'manager' in a lot of senses, but when it comes to game management, he tends to do three things way too often - make NO changes, make changes too late, or make the wrong ones.

He’s a superb coach, absolutely. But have to agree it’s certainly his weakness. Not adjusting to situations within games. So frustrating, that’s where we cock up so often.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: LukeJames on October 16, 2021, 07:30:02 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Ian. on October 16, 2021, 07:24:43 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on October 16, 2021, 07:21:23 PM
Quote from: Ian. on October 16, 2021, 07:17:23 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on October 16, 2021, 07:12:39 PM
Quote from: Ian. on October 16, 2021, 07:08:57 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on October 16, 2021, 07:00:10 PM
Quote from: Vegas on October 16, 2021, 06:16:04 PM
Quote from: LukeJames on October 16, 2021, 06:11:12 PM
Losing a 2 goal lead with 10 minutes to go is unacceptable.

The first 2 goals were pathetic to conceed. 

Get him gone asap.

This is a genuine question - do you think any team which surrenders a two goal lead should sack their manager?
With 10 minutes to go? Yes. 

He's made a right gaff in the second half, but to suggest to get him gone asap is bonkers. Maybe Klopp should have been sacked being mauled by a Smith side last season.
Did Klopp lose 2-3 after being 2-0 up with  ten minutes to go?

I cant get my head around how bad that management was. 
 Other teams have lost a 2, or 3 goal lead. You don’t sack the manager. 
With 10 minutes too go? Who? 
You still don’t sack the manager because of this. Christ almighty.
His game management is awful, this is the biggest single example of that. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on October 16, 2021, 07:32:21 PM
			

			

				But it is hard to see how a manager can be successful if you can not manage games.
It is his Achilles heel. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: kippaxvilla2 on October 16, 2021, 07:32:46 PM
			

			

				You always felt he was never destined to take Brentford up.  They got to around the play off zones season in season out but God awful bad patches used to cost them in the end and everyone thought what a great season they’ve had.  Since he left they have been promoted.  Exactly the same sort of thing is happening here with him in charge.  Gash results after such promising ones.  It depends what the ambition is.  If it’s to just stay mid to lower mid table then there’s no point replacing him.  But It is my firmly held belief that he will never get us into Europe.  
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: olaftab on October 16, 2021, 07:33:12 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Demitri_C on October 16, 2021, 07:09:51 PM
Another year of no European football. ::)

Miles away from europe
Yes that's absolutely clear and nailed on after 8 games...yes EIGHT.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: gpbarr on October 16, 2021, 07:34:09 PM
			

			

				Bonkers suggestion, absolutely bonkers. 10 mins of madness undoes 3 years of terrific overall management. I was quite depressed at 5pm but this post made me smile again!  
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: olaftab on October 16, 2021, 07:34:14 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: ChicagoLion on October 16, 2021, 07:32:21 PM
But it is hard to see how a manager can be successful if you can not manage games.
It is his Achilles heel. 
So he didn't manage Everton or Newcastle games? 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: clash city rocker on October 16, 2021, 07:45:12 PM
			

			

				Let's be honest. No way will we make europe this season.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Beard82 on October 16, 2021, 07:47:05 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: clash city rocker on October 16, 2021, 07:45:12 PM
Let's be honest. No way will we make europe this season.
Think most people accept that - but we need top half otherwise we’ll be stuck in the MON - 1 step forward 1 step back mould and lose our best players each summer 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on October 16, 2021, 07:47:32 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on October 16, 2021, 07:26:16 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on October 16, 2021, 07:24:30 PM
I love Dean and think he's perfect for us in every possible way with one exception; the football. 

Joking apart, the problem is game management.

I think he's a decent coach and a good 'manager' in a lot of senses, but when it comes to game management, he tends to do three things way too often - make NO changes, make changes too late, or make the wrong ones.

I'll leave it for Monty to explain again Dean's lack of..what did he call it, 'Football identity'? Truth is when the plan once again is for Mings to hoof the ball down the left for somebody to chase, even if there's nobody there, you realise it's more than 'game management'. It's 'Plan fucking A' he's still struggling with! Hard work, running around a lot and SJM's big bum does not constitute a plan as we once again saw today.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: wince on October 16, 2021, 07:47:44 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: martin o`who?? on October 16, 2021, 07:22:59 PM
Suddenly Smith is being criticised for us giving away a two goal lead and losing 3-2 but I seem to remember us doing that very same thing under the great Ron Saunders in 1979 against Spurs at VP - we were 2:0 up with nine minutes to go and lost 3:2 with Hoddle chipping Rimmer for the Winner down the Witton.
[/quote

Forgot it was 1979. Someone should have said something.......

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on October 16, 2021, 07:49:06 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: olaftab on October 16, 2021, 07:34:14 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on October 16, 2021, 07:32:21 PM
But it is hard to see how a manager can be successful if you can not manage games.
It is his Achilles heel. 
So he didn't manage Everton or Newcastle games?
if managing some games is good enough for you then fine.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: wince on October 16, 2021, 07:50:15 PM
			

			

				Fuck me I wish I hadn’t given up alcohol. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on October 16, 2021, 07:52:02 PM
			

			

				He's not a top half manager, never mind a top 6 one. Edens looked absolutely furious at the final whistle, I reckon Smith picked a bad time to demonstrate to the boss his numerous flaws.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Brazilian Villain on October 16, 2021, 07:55:07 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: wince on October 16, 2021, 07:50:15 PM
Fuck me I wish I hadn’t given up alcohol. 

Stick with it (and Dean).
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: wince on October 16, 2021, 07:56:59 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Brazilian Villain on October 16, 2021, 07:55:07 PM
Quote from: wince on October 16, 2021, 07:50:15 PM
Fuck me I wish I hadn’t given up alcohol. 

Stick with it (and Dean).

Naturally I will. Dean needs to grow a pair of massive bollocks. Too nice to bollock that shower 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ian. on October 16, 2021, 07:59:31 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Brazilian Villain on October 16, 2021, 07:55:07 PM
Quote from: wince on October 16, 2021, 07:50:15 PM
Fuck me I wish I hadn’t given up alcohol. 

Stick with it (and Dean).
Great advice, on both parts. Fair play to you, I’m trying to cut down and that’s hard enough. Good on you. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ad@m on October 16, 2021, 08:04:21 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Ian. on October 16, 2021, 07:59:31 PM
Quote from: Brazilian Villain on October 16, 2021, 07:55:07 PM
Quote from: wince on October 16, 2021, 07:50:15 PM
Fuck me I wish I hadn’t given up alcohol. 

Stick with it (and Dean).
Great advice, on both parts. Fair play to you, I’m trying to cut down and that’s hard enough. Good on you. 

I won't be cutting down after that!
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: TheMalandro on October 16, 2021, 08:08:54 PM
			

			

				I’m in the middle of Sober October.

Pull the trigger!!!
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on October 16, 2021, 08:17:55 PM
			

			

				I had a heavy one last night and have just woken up to this. It's quarter-past two. I love Dean but you can't be losing to Wolves at 2-0 with ten minutes to go. I don't want him sacked but the least he could offer me is a sausage sandwich and a cuddle.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Demitri_C on October 16, 2021, 08:20:17 PM
			

			

				Smiths spent a astronomical amount so i am not suprised edens was furious.

Two pathetic results in a row.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on October 16, 2021, 08:24:47 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Demitri_C on October 16, 2021, 08:20:17 PM
Smiths spent a astronomical amount so i am not suprised edens was furious.

Two pathetic results in a row.

He hasn't spent anything.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: steamer on October 16, 2021, 08:37:01 PM
			

			

				He/Villa did
they then recouped it by selling ******** which apparently was not in the plan.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: exiled on the wirral! on October 16, 2021, 08:45:35 PM
			

			

				The players let down Smith today. The lack of professionalism to see that game out, especially from the senior players is a real concern. The lack of desire and commitment smacks of complacency to me and Smith needs to rattle a few cages and dropping a few of the big hitters in the squad otherwise he might be in trouble fairly soon.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on October 16, 2021, 08:59:01 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on October 16, 2021, 08:24:47 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on October 16, 2021, 08:20:17 PM
Smiths spent a astronomical amount so i am not suprised edens was furious.

Two pathetic results in a row.

He hasn't spent anything.

"Edens was furious" where has that come from?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Allan C on October 16, 2021, 09:25:44 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: villa for life on October 16, 2021, 05:12:39 PM
He’ll be a good manager in the premier league one day, but he needs a few more years, and we just can’t wait. 

We need someone who knows the premier league well.
Not necessarily a good idea, it’s why we ended up with Bruce and people wanting Allardyce etc.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on October 16, 2021, 09:29:09 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Allan C on October 16, 2021, 09:25:44 PM
Quote from: villa for life on October 16, 2021, 05:12:39 PM
He’ll be a good manager in the premier league one day, but he needs a few more years, and we just can’t wait. 

We need someone who knows the premier league well.
Not necessarily a good idea, it’s why we ended up with Bruce and people wanting Allardyce etc.

Does it look like we have the sort of owners now who would go for that type of manager?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: BC Villain on October 16, 2021, 09:31:29 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: exiled on the wirral! on October 16, 2021, 08:45:35 PM
The players let down Smith today. The lack of professionalism to see that game out, especially from the senior players is a real concern. The lack of desire and commitment smacks of complacency to me and Smith needs to rattle a few cages and dropping a few of the big hitters in the squad otherwise he might be in trouble fairly soon.

Very concerning given that one of the players we brought on is easily the most experienced player in the squad.

A large part of that defeat was down to arrogance from the players.  They thought the job was done, then Wolves scored and they retracted into panic mode. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ROBBO on October 16, 2021, 10:14:39 PM
			

			

				Mings getting booked for slow play at the sixty minute mark tells you everything.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Allan C on October 16, 2021, 10:50:26 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on October 16, 2021, 09:29:09 PM
Quote from: Allan C on October 16, 2021, 09:25:44 PM
Quote from: villa for life on October 16, 2021, 05:12:39 PM
He’ll be a good manager in the premier league one day, but he needs a few more years, and we just can’t wait. 

We need someone who knows the premier league well.
Not necessarily a good idea, it’s why we ended up with Bruce and people wanting Allardyce etc.

Does it look like we have the sort of owners now who would go for that type of manager?
Which is exactly why I said “not necessarily” but who do you have in mind???
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Demitri_C on October 16, 2021, 10:56:05 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on October 16, 2021, 08:24:47 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on October 16, 2021, 08:20:17 PM
Smiths spent a astronomical amount so i am not suprised edens was furious.

Two pathetic results in a row.

He hasn't spent anything.

Sean dyche hasnt spent anything. Not dean smith
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on October 16, 2021, 10:56:08 PM
			

			

				Domenico Tedesco
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Demitri_C on October 16, 2021, 11:00:24 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Allan C on October 16, 2021, 10:50:26 PM
Quote from: Risso on October 16, 2021, 09:29:09 PM
Quote from: Allan C on October 16, 2021, 09:25:44 PM
Quote from: villa for life on October 16, 2021, 05:12:39 PM
He’ll be a good manager in the premier league one day, but he needs a few more years, and we just can’t wait. 

We need someone who knows the premier league well.
Not necessarily a good idea, it’s why we ended up with Bruce and people wanting Allardyce etc.

Does it look like we have the sort of owners now who would go for that type of manager?
Which is exactly why I said “not necessarily” but who do you have in mind???

Conte 

Promise him a 100m+ budget and he will come with this squad.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on October 16, 2021, 11:09:17 PM
			

			

				I doubt it but no harm in asking....perhaps he'll be seduced by 3-5-2.

We should certainly be in mix for mid range and experienced european manager. I think with our squad we're ripe for one of those pressing managers from Bundesliga that half the prem seemingly has.

Probably get shot down for saying this given they've barely won a game this year but actually think Ralph Hassenhuttl would be a really good fit for our squad but people will look at his record and dismiss him which I understand.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: aj2k77 on October 17, 2021, 12:50:27 AM
			

			

				He's done a good job but there isn't a chance in hell that we'll ever break the top 6 with him as a manager. He's very very limited.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: villa for life on October 17, 2021, 05:01:51 AM
			

			

				We’ve got ourselves a lower mid table manager working with an upper middle squad, so we finished mid-table last season and will probably do so again this season. 

The challenge, just like it is with the playing squad, is to recruit better quality. At certain times, there have been and, no doubt, will be again some really gettable quality coaches available. When the next one becomes available, we have to pounce, in the same we pounced for Martinez or Ings, the players.

Nobody really thought we needed a new GK or striker, but when quality is available, you recruit anyway in order to strengthen the club.

We need to adopt the same strategy to find our next manager.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ROBBO on October 17, 2021, 06:27:40 AM
			

			

				It's true to say that we all wished Dean would take us to the very top, he has done a lot for the club and deserves to be given every chance but his game management is going to be his downfall. It isn't just yesterday it's all the other days when it was clear changes needed to be made, when it was obvious a player wasn't performing. I call him the sixty minute man because no matter how bad we are playing he always leaves it til late in the game to make changes.
I believe that if Hause had come on instead of young we would have seen the game out and i wouldn't be the only one.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: N'ZMAV on October 17, 2021, 06:51:46 AM
			

			

				Keeping hold of Smith for the rest of the season could go two ways.
Mid-table and below or top-half comfortably. 
The difference between the two is standing still, at best, after a spending more money or progress.
It may not seem a big difference, especially in terms of league placing - but losing momentum is costly - especially with the likes of Konsa, Martinez and maybe McGinn having their heads turned.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: simboy on October 17, 2021, 06:54:59 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: ROBBO on October 16, 2021, 10:14:39 PM
Mings getting booked for slow play at the sixty minute mark tells you everything.


What does it tell us? 

It was a poor bit of decision making, by the man on the pitch, goaded by the dog heads. It told us that Oliver was more interested in penalising a bit of game time “management” than Traore kicking lumps out of Konsa … but apart from that … what did it tell us? 

Their sub of Podence made the difference he attacked a soft left side of the Villa. Luiz and Emi2 were knackered and Nakamba didn’t cover very well. 

We lost a game we shouldn’t have. It happens. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: villa for life on October 17, 2021, 07:07:50 AM
			

			

				Too often
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: OzVilla on October 17, 2021, 07:13:47 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Abbeyfealeavfc on October 16, 2021, 08:59:01 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on October 16, 2021, 08:24:47 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on October 16, 2021, 08:20:17 PM
Smiths spent a astronomical amount so i am not suprised edens was furious.

Two pathetic results in a row.

He hasn't spent anything.

"Edens was furious" where has that come from?

Somebody mentioned Eden’s “looked furious at the end.”

And to be fair, if that last 15 mins didn’t make him furious he never will be. These owners aren’t the sorts to put up with much more of that shit.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: N'ZMAV on October 17, 2021, 07:20:54 AM
			

			

				Eden’s should have been furious. Everyone probably was. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: TheMalandro on October 17, 2021, 07:29:49 AM
			

			

				He stood up at the end and slowly pointed his thumb to the ground.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Demitri_C on October 17, 2021, 08:14:20 AM
			

			

				Remembee when baileys dad said he would let bailey join losers? Well thats exactly what we were yesterday.  Complete losers.  

If we go on another run like last year after xmas when i think it was 1 win in 11-12 then he has go for me. I wont tolerate that crap again this year.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Villan82 on October 17, 2021, 10:28:23 AM
			

			

				Under Smith there are too many games where we come away empty handed. So many defeats. Remember our first season up and he was saying after ten games that we hadn't got the points our performances merited? There is a sloppiness about us, a sort of lackadaisical tendency. He simply has to eliminate that if he wants to stay in his job.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ian. on October 17, 2021, 10:32:35 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: TheMalandro on October 17, 2021, 07:29:49 AM
He stood up at the end and slowly pointed his thumb to the ground.

Who, Eden’s? 

I’m sure Smith’s and the team are in for a right rollicking today. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Beard82 on October 17, 2021, 10:39:01 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Ian. on October 17, 2021, 10:32:35 AM
Quote from: TheMalandro on October 17, 2021, 07:29:49 AM
He stood up at the end and slowly pointed his thumb to the ground.

Who, Eden’s? 

I’m sure Smith’s and the team are in for a right rollicking today.

I am worried for dean,  I know we are only 8 games in - but unless we turn it round in the next 2. or 3 I think he’s going to be in real trouble. 

He’s been unlucky with the pre season and injuries, but this isn’t a bottom half of the table squad - and the players we have will want out in the summer.  

Also so far we don’t seem to know how to get the best out of any of the 3 big money signings.  

I really don’t think the owners will tolerate anything other then clear progress - and we’re know at the point where any manager is 4-5 bad games away from being sacked - and let’s be honest we have only had 2 good games so far this season. 

Hope dean has it in him - as don’t think I could handle losing him and joe in such quick succession

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: mike on October 17, 2021, 10:53:41 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Beard82 on October 17, 2021, 10:39:01 AM
Quote from: Ian. on October 17, 2021, 10:32:35 AM
Quote from: TheMalandro on October 17, 2021, 07:29:49 AM
He stood up at the end and slowly pointed his thumb to the ground.

Who, Eden’s? 

I’m sure Smith’s and the team are in for a right rollicking today.

I am worried for dean,  I know we are only 8 games in - but unless we turn it round in the next 2. or 3 I think he’s going to be in real trouble. 

He’s been unlucky with the pre season and injuries, but this isn’t a bottom half of the table squad - and the players we have will want out in the summer.  

Also so far we don’t seem to know how to get the best out of any of the 3 big money signings.  

I really don’t think the owners will tolerate anything other then clear progress - and we’re know at the point where any manager is 4-5 bad games away from being sacked - and let’s be honest we have only had 2 good games so far this season. 

Hope dean has it in him - as don’t think I could handle losing him and joe in such quick succession


We really tailed off half way through last season too. Remember the always optimistic Champions League thread that had to quietly disappear. I think over the last 30 or so games we have not particularly been anything like a European team. Add in that the latest human rights abusers to be give a PL team will most likely transform Newcastle next season I would expect that our owners will want a bit more from us this season to put us down n a healthier place to compete. I think they will give Dean a bit of time but I think he is near to last chance saloon. As someone else said, if there was a sniff of a top manager I can see the owners doing to Dean what they did to Heaton. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: exiled on the wirral! on October 17, 2021, 10:56:53 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: OzVilla on October 17, 2021, 07:13:47 AM
Quote from: Abbeyfealeavfc on October 16, 2021, 08:59:01 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on October 16, 2021, 08:24:47 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on October 16, 2021, 08:20:17 PM
Smiths spent a astronomical amount so i am not suprised edens was furious.

Two pathetic results in a row.

He hasn't spent anything.

"Edens was furious" where has that come from?

Somebody mentioned Eden’s “looked furious at the end.”

And to be fair, if that last 15 mins didn’t make him furious he never will be. These owners aren’t the sorts to put up with much more of that shit.
I'm usually quite calm, but even I completely lost it yesterday and I haven't spent half a billion quid for the privilege. But I was more angry with the players complete lack of desire to see out the game rather than anything Smith did or didn't do.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Beard82 on October 17, 2021, 11:00:04 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: mike on October 17, 2021, 10:53:41 AM
Quote from: Beard82 on October 17, 2021, 10:39:01 AM
Quote from: Ian. on October 17, 2021, 10:32:35 AM
Quote from: TheMalandro on October 17, 2021, 07:29:49 AM
He stood up at the end and slowly pointed his thumb to the ground.

Yeah I think that’s my point - last season we had a brilliant position around Xmas time which effectively bought him a huge cushion to be able to point to improvements. 

We’re now in the position of having to catch up - but this time next week we could be 6 points behind arsenal who we were laughing at. 

This early in the season it is fine margins - as holding on yesterday would have made the whole thing look completely different - but i really think these owners are serious about making us a top team that challenges for Europe 

Who, Eden’s? 

I’m sure Smith’s and the team are in for a right rollicking today.

I am worried for dean,  I know we are only 8 games in - but unless we turn it round in the next 2. or 3 I think he’s going to be in real trouble. 

He’s been unlucky with the pre season and injuries, but this isn’t a bottom half of the table squad - and the players we have will want out in the summer.  

Also so far we don’t seem to know how to get the best out of any of the 3 big money signings.  

I really don’t think the owners will tolerate anything other then clear progress - and we’re know at the point where any manager is 4-5 bad games away from being sacked - and let’s be honest we have only had 2 good games so far this season. 

Hope dean has it in him - as don’t think I could handle losing him and joe in such quick succession


We really tailed off half way through last season too. Remember the always optimistic Champions League thread that had to quietly disappear. I think over the last 30 or so games we have not particularly been anything like a European team. Add in that the latest human rights abusers to be give a PL team will most likely transform Newcastle next season I would expect that our owners will want a bit more from us this season to put us down n a healthier place to compete. I think they will give Dean a bit of time but I think he is near to last chance saloon. As someone else said, if there was a sniff of a top manager I can see the owners doing to Dean what they did to Heaton.

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: gpbarr on October 17, 2021, 11:02:27 AM
			

			

				An article in the FT a few years ago rings true more than ever. I quote:

However, the power of managers has long been overrated. Today, despite their outsized image, they matter less than ever. The best predictor of a club’s success is not who picks the team but the squad’s total wage bill. High wages attract good players. The higher the wage bill, the better the team typically performs. Averaged over 10 seasons, correlation between wage bill and final league position is about 90 per cent.

I think Smith deserves to retain his job despite an indifferent start to the season, but firing him would be easy. It might make us feel better, hoping the next guy would take us to the next level (top 6). But unless the owners are willing to significantly increase the wage bill, the next manager will struggle to get us there. The fact is we are about where we should be with this group of players - we are 12th now, we finished 11th last season. We will finish there again regardless who the manager is. 

Yes there is always a 'Leicester' but thats a significant rarity, not the rule. And with Newcastle joining the super rich elite, that top 6 target probably requires Villa to double their wage bill - big, big decisions for the owners in the next year for sure.      

 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Bobby Boy on October 17, 2021, 11:04:10 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: exiled on the wirral! on October 17, 2021, 10:56:53 AM
Quote from: OzVilla on October 17, 2021, 07:13:47 AM
Quote from: Abbeyfealeavfc on October 16, 2021, 08:59:01 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on October 16, 2021, 08:24:47 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on October 16, 2021, 08:20:17 PM
Smiths spent a astronomical amount so i am not suprised edens was furious.

Two pathetic results in a row.

He hasn't spent anything.

"Edens was furious" where has that come from?

Somebody mentioned Eden’s “looked furious at the end.”

And to be fair, if that last 15 mins didn’t make him furious he never will be. These owners aren’t the sorts to put up with much more of that shit.
I'm usually quite calm, but even I completely lost it yesterday and I haven't spent half a billion quid for the privilege. But I was more angry with the players complete lack of desire to see out the game rather than anything Smith did or didn't do.

Dean seems like a really nice bloke but I hope there is some steel there because he needs to be able to make uncomfortable or potentially unpopular decisions that the top managers will make.

It's easy to drop Ramsey or Nakamba but would he drop Mings or Watkins? 

We've let leads slip at Burnley, Palace and now at home to Wolves.

Are we too soft? Is Dean? 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: WarszaVillan on October 17, 2021, 11:16:42 AM
			

			

				After what he has done over the past three years, Smith has earned the right to take us through this season. Whether he is then the man to take us further is up for question. The fans should stand by him at this time - a bit of loyalty is in order for now.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: N'ZMAV on October 17, 2021, 11:23:52 AM
			

			

				What do the the stats for 2021 look like? Probably not good in terms of league wins for Smith. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: brontebilly on October 17, 2021, 11:26:15 AM
			

			

				A bit harsh blaming the subs Smith made. All three who were replaced were clearly fatigued/injured. Nakamba has done ok lately. Ramsey for Buendia should have given us more legs in midfield and another expected one. Young for Cash, understand that in hindsight bringing in Hause might have been better for defending set pieces but surely the reason we brought in Young was to help see out games with his experience. 

To quibble with the starting line up, I thought playing just two in midfield with Buendia was a bit risky but it worked well for the most part. Tuanzebe didn't do anywhere near enough with the ball to warrant his inclusion but bar that Traore run did Wolves look like scoring until late on? For me, I want to move away from 352 but it's more that Ings/Watkins clearly aren't working and our full backs are providing very little threat out wide. Cash wasted some amount of ball yesterday. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on October 17, 2021, 11:27:50 AM
			

			

				Why do you keep Ings and Watkins on when you are 2 nil up?

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ads on October 17, 2021, 11:29:01 AM
			

			

				Why bring Young on? Bring El Ghazi to switch shape bring Sanson on to add a 2nd 8. Bring Hause on to to push Tianzebe wide. All sorts he could have done.

If we don't play 433 against Arsenal, he wants kicking in the nuts.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: DB on October 17, 2021, 11:30:32 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: WarszaVillan on October 17, 2021, 11:16:42 AM
After what he has done over the past three years, Smith has earned the right to take us through this season. Whether he is then the man to take us further is up for question. The fans should stand by him at this time - a bit of loyalty is in order for now.

Is he going to improve us and take us to the next level, i.e. European football. It’s what he has done but you have to look forward
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on October 17, 2021, 11:33:33 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: DB on October 17, 2021, 11:30:32 AM
Quote from: WarszaVillan on October 17, 2021, 11:16:42 AM
After what he has done over the past three years, Smith has earned the right to take us through this season. Whether he is then the man to take us further is up for question. The fans should stand by him at this time - a bit of loyalty is in order for now.

Is he going to improve us and take us to the next level, i.e. European football. It’s what he has done but you have to look forward

I think that's too much to ask for this season given all the disruption in the summer and that's still continued into the season.

However I'm looking for challenge for 8-10th. We were in that range or higher for most of last season and you don't have to be that good to finish in those positions.

Bottom half finish wouldn't be acceptable in my book and I really can't see owners giving him another season especially as Newcastle will be spending stupid money in next 12 months so they'll be a direct rival again very shortly.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ads on October 17, 2021, 11:34:35 AM
			

			

				Depends who the replacement would be for me. If its taking a punt then absolutely not. If its some Champions League bod then yes.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ozzjim on October 17, 2021, 11:37:44 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Ads on October 17, 2021, 11:34:35 AM
Depends who the replacement would be for me. If its taking a punt then absolutely not. If its some Champions League bod then yes.

Pretty much where I am. It's sentiment keeping him in a job at the moment. Last 38 games we'd be about 14th. That's nowhere near good enough. The formation thing is something you have to adapt. 3 at the back against Wolves and Spurs wasn't the right was to go. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: brontebilly on October 17, 2021, 11:44:24 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Ads on October 17, 2021, 11:29:01 AM
Why bring Young on? Bring El Ghazi to switch shape bring Sanson on to add a 2nd 8. Bring Hause on to to push Tianzebe wide. All sorts he could have done.

If we don't play 433 against Arsenal, he wants kicking in the nuts.

If we aren't bringing on Young for Cash in that situation yesterday then there's no point in him being in the squad. Hause on sure, but you are making two changes there instead of one. Sanson, maybe and switch to a back four but how fit is Sanson. AEG at that stage would have been a mad one. 

I thought Smith made a Southgate esque mess of his subs and timing of them at Spurs but yesterday I'd be more pointing the finger at the senior players who allowed that collapse late on. Starting with the captain. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Clampy on October 17, 2021, 11:46:52 AM
			

			

				It's weird though. After the win at Old Trafford, people on here were talking about him for the England job. Today, some people want rid of him. It's the way it is I suppose. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ads on October 17, 2021, 11:55:44 AM
			

			

				I know I didn't. He bears the brunt of that utter shambles and persistent weakness. It's holding us back and will continue to do so and eventually, he will lose his job over it.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: DB on October 17, 2021, 12:13:33 PM
			

			

				Yeah, we are lower mid table. Get a great result.one week and follow it up with Spurs and yesterday.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Nunkin1965 on October 17, 2021, 12:22:35 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: brontebilly on October 17, 2021, 11:44:24 AM
Quote from: Ads on October 17, 2021, 11:29:01 AM
Why bring Young on? Bring El Ghazi to switch shape bring Sanson on to add a 2nd 8. Bring Hause on to to push Tianzebe wide. All sorts he could have done.

If we don't play 433 against Arsenal, he wants kicking in the nuts.

If we aren't bringing on Young for Cash in that situation yesterday then there's no point in him being in the squad. Hause on sure, but you are making two changes there instead of one. Sanson, maybe and switch to a back four but how fit is Sanson. AEG at that stage would have been a mad one. 

I thought Smith made a Southgate esque mess of his subs and timing of them at Spurs but yesterday I'd be more pointing the finger at the senior players who allowed that collapse late on. Starting with the captain.

None of the substitutions for me yesterday were a problem.
People just use hindsight to blame the boss and that's fine if people want to think that way.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Clark W Griswold on October 17, 2021, 12:27:29 PM
			

			

				It depends. If there is real ambition from the owners then despite all of the good stuff he’s done, the jury is out as to whether he has the ability to compete with the leagues top coaches. If the intention is just to sit in mid table then so far he’s shown that he’s good enough to do that now the squad has been developed sufficiently. And if it is the case we owe him the chance to keep his job considering he’s got us there. I would only think about replacing him if we really do drop like a stone and look like relegation fodder, but I doubt that will happen.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Big Ming on October 17, 2021, 12:30:54 PM
			

			

				Another lower mid-table finish coming up.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Vegas on October 17, 2021, 12:31:28 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Nunkin1965 on October 17, 2021, 12:22:35 PM
Quote from: brontebilly on October 17, 2021, 11:44:24 AM
Quote from: Ads on October 17, 2021, 11:29:01 AM
Why bring Young on? Bring El Ghazi to switch shape bring Sanson on to add a 2nd 8. Bring Hause on to to push Tianzebe wide. All sorts he could have done.

If we don't play 433 against Arsenal, he wants kicking in the nuts.

If we aren't bringing on Young for Cash in that situation yesterday then there's no point in him being in the squad. Hause on sure, but you are making two changes there instead of one. Sanson, maybe and switch to a back four but how fit is Sanson. AEG at that stage would have been a mad one. 

I thought Smith made a Southgate esque mess of his subs and timing of them at Spurs but yesterday I'd be more pointing the finger at the senior players who allowed that collapse late on. Starting with the captain.

None of the substitutions for me yesterday were a problem.
People just use hindsight to blame the boss and that's fine if people want to think that way.

I agree with that. All 3 had to come off, and all 3 replacements were the most obvious replacement I think. With hindsight we could have gone Hause and shuffled Ezri across to RB but I would probably have gone for Young at the time. 

It’s more the game management from the players that was so disappointing - experienced players lost their heads, there were three opportunities to clear the equaliser, lots of scuffed clearances, general panic etc.

I think a big problem with evaluating Smith is agreeing what a reasonable expectation this year is. I think around 10-12th is reasonable, because that’s where we finished last year and we had negative net spend in the summer. 

I would love it if we had invested another £50m on a centre mid, like it seems Smith wanted, but we didn’t. So I don’t really see why we should expect to kick on to 6th-7th-8th this year. 

But obviously quite a lot of people have a different view and have that expectation, and I can understand that he doesn’t look likely to succeed on that basis
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Bobby Boy on October 17, 2021, 12:35:30 PM
			

			

				I don't think that the concern for Dean is our expectations for the season. The fact that the owners felt that 11th place last season was a "disappointment" should worry him more.

11th clearly isn't going to cut it. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Vegas on October 17, 2021, 12:38:07 PM
			

			

				Obviously. But in terms of whether fans want Dean in or out, it is relevant. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: olaftab on October 17, 2021, 12:55:56 PM
			

			

				There was nothing wrong with the subs yesterday in terms of personnel. Luiz and Buendia had to be substituted and  Nakamba and Ramsey were the right players to come on. Timing was also correct. The only concern I have is when Young came on  for Cash. They were waiting to take a corner and I remember shouting "do not sub before the corner" and we failed to deal with the corner properly leading to their equaliser. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on October 17, 2021, 01:21:19 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Ads on October 17, 2021, 11:34:35 AM
Depends who the replacement would be for me. If its taking a punt then absolutely not. If its some Champions League bod then yes.

Absolutely this
I’d love to replace Smith with a top flight manager someone that could take us into the European football
But I’m struggling to see who that is
with every manager there is going to be a risk attached

Tuchel and Nagelsmann were the up and coming managers two or three years ago
They were inexperienced but you knew they were going to manage at the top level at some point
I don’t know who compares to them in European football now as I’m not as clued up as others but that’s the sort of appointment you need to make before they become an unobtainable but even then it’s a risk

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: N'ZMAV on October 17, 2021, 01:24:06 PM
			

			

				we're in a similar situation to Southampton were; when they surprised many outsiders and sacked Adkins and bought in Poch. Most people criticised it but people in and around the club knew it was the time to make a change to progress
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: simboy on October 17, 2021, 01:35:54 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Bobby Boy on October 17, 2021, 12:35:30 PM
I don't think that the concern for Dean is our expectations for the season. The fact that the owners felt that 11th place last season was a "disappointment" should worry him more.

11th clearly isn't going to cut it. 


When did our owners say this? 

 There is some mitigation,injuries, international call ups where there’s been players arrested and overnight flights the day of the game. However, the stat that concerns me is 3 goals conceded in three out of our eight games. 

Change for changes sake doesn’t work - we saw that with The Two Scottish managers, tactics, some French bloke and a champions league winning manager … a steady decline into championship mediocrity, worrying about relegation to the third tier, rather than a realistic expectation of European football in a year or so. 




			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on October 17, 2021, 01:47:43 PM
			

			

				The difference there is that the manager changes were against the backdrop of an ever worsening ownership structure. Now we’ve got a stable, switched on, invested and crucially, rich, pair of owners. We need a manager capable of taking us to the next level. Smith in my opinion is not that man.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on October 17, 2021, 01:51:48 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on October 17, 2021, 01:47:43 PM
The difference there is that the manager changes were against the backdrop of an ever worsening ownership structure. Now we’ve got a stable, switched on, invested and crucially, rich, pair of owners. We need a manager capable of taking us to the next level. Smith in my opinion is not that man.

My only worry is that when we were doing badly in the first season back
There was rumours that we were looking around for a possible replacement
Obviously no one can be sure if they were true or not but the news that came out was that Purslow was in favour of Sean Dyche The others I can’t remember but they were pretty underwhelming British good safe hands type jobbies

I hope if and when that time comes we are far more ambitious than that
Which is basically what you’ve just said
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: algy on October 17, 2021, 02:00:16 PM
			

			

				Think some perspective is needed. We're a mid table side, and are getting the sort of results that mid table sides get. Consistent sides tend to be at the extremities of the table - top or bottom - depending on which type of consistent they are!

I suspect we'll be looking at more than just the league table. Are we generally getting better or worse results than expected? Are the players we've got improving or getting worse? That type of thing. Because that will tell you a lot more than the league table at this stage, which will be heavily influenced by good/bad luck in a couple of games.

For me, Dean's done more than enough to be given this season to show himself. We have to be moving up the table, and if it looks like we're going backwards then absolutely we should be in the market for a top manager. But I really don't think we're anywhere near that point right now, because to me we're in quite a strong position right now - mid table despite some bad luck with injuries, and bringing younger players through in to the first team squad as we're doing it.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on October 17, 2021, 02:04:21 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: algy on October 17, 2021, 02:00:16 PM
Think some perspective is needed. We're a mid table side, and are getting the sort of results that mid table sides get. Consistent sides tend to be at the extremities of the table - top or bottom - depending on which type of consistent they are!

I suspect we'll be looking at more than just the league table. Are we generally getting better or worse results than expected? Are the players we've got improving or getting worse? That type of thing. Because that will tell you a lot more than the league table at this stage, which will be heavily influenced by good/bad luck in a couple of games.

For me, Dean's done more than enough to be given this season to show himself. We have to be moving up the table, and if it looks like we're going backwards then absolutely we should be in the market for a top manager. But I really don't think we're anywhere near that point right now, because to me we're in quite a strong position right now - mid table despite some bad luck with injuries, and bringing younger players through in to the first team squad as we're doing it.

I think our squad especially when they are all fit are better than mid table

I’ve said this before I’m not dumbing down anymore just because we aren’t getting good results doesn’t mean to say that we have to settle for a mid table finish 
we should be pushing for European places it’s a simple as that
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on October 17, 2021, 02:21:18 PM
			

			

				The defence has gone completely to pot. Three games already this season where we've conceded three times, and we're averaging 1.25 goals a game against. That's despite playing three at the back and not really missing any defensive or midfield options due to injury. Not good enough. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: DB on October 17, 2021, 02:27:22 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Clark W Griswold on October 17, 2021, 12:27:29 PM
It depends. If there is real ambition from the owners then despite all of the good stuff he’s done, the jury is out as to whether he has the ability to compete with the leagues top coaches. If the intention is just to sit in mid table then so far he’s shown that he’s good enough to do that now the squad has been developed sufficiently. And if it is the case we owe him the chance to keep his job considering he’s got us there. I would only think about replacing him if we really do drop like a stone and look like relegation fodder, but I doubt that will happen.

From the owners poi t of view they will want more ethan that. They will progress each season. So far he has done that. This season looks as if he has a lot to do to get higher than last season. I hope he can but think he has reached his top of his ability as a manager, not just on yesterday though.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SamTheMouse on October 17, 2021, 02:47:27 PM
			

			

				One thing I really don't understand is why Tuanzebe (not our player) is getting picked ahead of Hause (our player), when there is so little difference between them.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Nunkin1965 on October 17, 2021, 02:58:58 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: SamTheMouse on October 17, 2021, 02:47:27 PM
One thing I really don't understand is why Tuanzebe (not our player) is getting picked ahead of Hause (our player), when there is so little difference between them.

Think I heard on a podcast that Axel was picked over Hause because we thought Jimenez was starting?
But I'd have started Hause anyway.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: nigel on October 17, 2021, 03:00:32 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Ads on October 17, 2021, 11:29:01 AM
Why bring Young on? Bring El Ghazi to switch shape bring Sanson on to add a 2nd 8. Bring Hause on to to push Tianzebe wide. All sorts he could have done.

If we don't play 433 against Arsenal, he wants kicking in the nuts.

It easy with hindsight, though.
We were 2-0 up, although we weren’t coasting we certainly didn’t look troubled, and every change made sense.
For me, that defeat was down to the players.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: nigel on October 17, 2021, 03:02:20 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Nunkin1965 on October 17, 2021, 02:58:58 PM
Quote from: SamTheMouse on October 17, 2021, 02:47:27 PM
One thing I really don't understand is why Tuanzebe (not our player) is getting picked ahead of Hause (our player), when there is so little difference between them.

Think I heard on a podcast that Axel was picked over Hause because we thought Jimenez was starting?
But I'd have started Hause anyway.

I agree.
If we continue with the 3 Hause has to be the central one.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on October 17, 2021, 03:03:25 PM
			

			

				He has gambled the farm on 3 5 2 and squeezing Ings and Watkins up front and Tunzabe at the back.
I think he has got it wrong and it will be interesting to see if he is prepared to change it.
If he doesn’t I think he will be in trouble.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on October 17, 2021, 03:05:55 PM
			

			

				The big problem with our central defenders Mings Konsa Tuanzebe Hause Is that none of them are comfortable with the ball their technical ability is poor

When they start passing it round at the back it is a disaster waiting to happen none of them are good enough to do it
But when you play three central defenders you’re asking them to play more football further up the pitch which is a disaster because they simply aren’t good enough

Konsa is the best of them because he knows he’s not a ball player so does the simple things well and concentrates  on defending

Mings thinks he is Franco Baresi and we are asking him to play like him which is  ridiculous he is so poor at distribution and control of the Football that he just needs to copy what Konsa does

Hause is actually the worst of the lot for technical ability he is decent in the air and that’s about it, if he is the answer then we are truly fucked, He is nowhere near a top 6/8 central defender

The last thing you need is more players on the pitch with low technical ability and that’s what you get playing three  central defenders
That’s why in the last 10 minutes yesterday no matter how many defenders and holding midfield we had on the pitch  we went to pieces because our technical ability in that area is very suspect

McGinn Luiz Buendia Were the key yesterday as soon as that changed we were in trouble
Obviously Smith’s hand is tied with Traore Bailey Sansom injured But playing three central defenders with no technical ability is not the way forward




			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on October 17, 2021, 03:27:18 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: N'ZMAV on October 17, 2021, 01:24:06 PM
we're in a similar situation to Southampton were; when they surprised many outsiders and sacked Adkins and bought in Poch. Most people criticised it but people in and around the club knew it was the time to make a change to progress

I would say more Leicester tbh. Look at where they were in the table when they sacked Claude Puel. 12th or 13th despite having all of Schmeichel, Vardy, Tielemans, Ndidi, Vardy and also Maguire and Chilwell in the squad. Their board knew they were underachieving and so got in a manager who could get more out of a tune out of that squad and certainly Rodgers more than justified that faith in last 2 and a bit years.

It's not easy but this idea Dean is some incredible manager and there's not about 10-20 attainable managers in europe who are as good if not better than him at certain aspects of management is a bit misguided I think.

That said I would prefer all that to happen next summer rather than mid season which is always a big gamble so he's got this season for me unless he makes a complete mess of next two months and we hardly win a game.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Demitri_C on October 17, 2021, 05:00:45 PM
			

			

				Dump tbe 5 at the back dean ffs its shit and isnt working 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: RamboandBruno on October 17, 2021, 05:10:38 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: ChicagoLion on October 17, 2021, 03:03:25 PM
He has gambled the farm on 3 5 2 and squeezing Ings and Watkins up front and Tunzabe at the back.
I think he has got it wrong and it will be interesting to see if he is prepared to change it.
If he doesn’t I think he will be in trouble.

We’ve probably had differences on Smith, but I do agree with this. If we stick with the same formation for Arsenal and West Ham it will be bordering  on belligerence. If Baileys fit for the next game, i would play a front 3 of him and Buendia either side if Watkins or Ings. If Baileys not fit, and Traores not fir, id consider playing Watkins wide.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on October 17, 2021, 06:29:46 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: RamboandBruno on October 17, 2021, 05:10:38 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on October 17, 2021, 03:03:25 PM
He has gambled the farm on 3 5 2 and squeezing Ings and Watkins up front and Tunzabe at the back.
I think he has got it wrong and it will be interesting to see if he is prepared to change it.
If he doesn’t I think he will be in trouble.

We’ve probably had differences on Smith, but I do agree with this. If we stick with the same formation for Arsenal and West Ham it will be bordering  on belligerence. If Baileys fit for the next game, i would play a front 3 of him and Buendia either side if Watkins or Ings. If Baileys not fit, and Traores not fir, id consider playing Watkins wide.
agree 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on October 17, 2021, 06:32:39 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Clark W Griswold on October 17, 2021, 12:27:29 PM
I would only think about replacing him if we really do drop like a stone and look like relegation fodder, but I doubt that will happen.

This kind of thinking scares the shit out of me. It's something we've done under Ellis, the latter years of Lerner and of course Xia with Steve Bruce. We no longer have deadwood owners who are happy just to see us in the PL. If we can't be ambitious now we never will be. Dean inherited the most expensive assembled squad in the history of the Championship, he's been given more money than almost every PL manager since our return. Of course he had a major rebuild to do but he was supported to the tune of close to £150m and despite staying up by the skin of our teeth it took the Covid break for him to find the time to reorganise the defence that was the second worst in the league.

As I said yesterday, I love everything about him and he's absolutely perfect for us with one exception; the football. Maybe I'm not seeing it but three years in and I'm still struggling to see how he wants us to play other than work hard, run around a lot and get McGinn to use his bum. The other obvious thing is we generally do well against the top teams when we press and counter yet we really struggle against the midtable/lower teams.

Admittedly, 8 games in is nothing and it really shouldn't be a concern but we still have the post-Christmas record from last season lingering in the background.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on October 17, 2021, 06:37:24 PM
			

			

				Have the Accademy teams now switched to 3 5 2 ?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Clark W Griswold on October 17, 2021, 06:40:06 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on October 17, 2021, 06:32:39 PM
Quote from: Clark W Griswold on October 17, 2021, 12:27:29 PM
I would only think about replacing him if we really do drop like a stone and look like relegation fodder, but I doubt that will happen.

This kind of thinking scares the shit out of me. It's something we've done under Ellis, the latter years of Lerner and of course Xia with Steve Bruce. We no longer have deadwood owners who are happy just to see us in the PL. If we can't be ambitious now we never will be. Dean inherited the most expensive assembled squad in the history of the Championship, he's been given more money than almost every PL manager since our return. Of course he had a major rebuild to do but he was supported to the tune of close to £150m and despite staying up by the skin of our teeth it took the Covid break for him to find the time to reorganise the defence that was the second worst in the league.

As I said yesterday, I love everything about him and he's absolutely perfect for us with one exception; the football. Maybe I'm not seeing it but three years in and I'm still struggling to see how he wants us to play other than work hard, run around a lot and get McGinn to use his bum. The other obvious thing is we generally do well against the top teams when we press and counter yet we really struggle against the midtable/lower teams.

Admittedly, 8 games in is nothing and it really shouldn't be a concern but we still have the post-Christmas record from last season lingering in the background.

Yes, well if you read the rest of what I’ve posted rather than focusing on that bit it has a much different ‘kind of thinking’ to what you’re suggesting.

To comment on some of the other posts re formation I too hope he goes back to 4-3-3 and rotates Ings, Watkins, Buendia and Bailey when all fit, with Traore and El Ghazi as the back up / fresh legs.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Beard82 on October 17, 2021, 06:53:48 PM
			

			

				I really hope he can turn it round.  Think he has so many good qualities - just something doesnt seem quite right since the end of last season. 

I am not sure if it is the team lacks leaders -  other than Mings and Emi, no one is vocal. 

Also no one can retain the ball.  

I just worry that he won't be given the time to sort it.  I know people are saying we are a mid-table team, but I really don't think the players, board or management think that. 

Clearly - the stated aim isn't to bob around and not have anything to play for come each march.  

Emi2 didn't chose us over arsenal for that, Bailey didn't buy into that, and if that's the case why would Ings bother leaving Southampton for us.  
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Clark W Griswold on October 17, 2021, 06:57:25 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: DB on October 17, 2021, 02:27:22 PM
Quote from: Clark W Griswold on October 17, 2021, 12:27:29 PM
It depends. If there is real ambition from the owners then despite all of the good stuff he’s done, the jury is out as to whether he has the ability to compete with the leagues top coaches. If the intention is just to sit in mid table then so far he’s shown that he’s good enough to do that now the squad has been developed sufficiently. And if it is the case we owe him the chance to keep his job considering he’s got us there. I would only think about replacing him if we really do drop like a stone and look like relegation fodder, but I doubt that will happen.

From the owners poi t of view they will want more ethan that. They will progress each season. So far he has done that. This season looks as if he has a lot to do to get higher than last season. I hope he can but think he has reached his top of his ability as a manager, not just on yesterday though.

Ok, but how do you know what the owners want? They say this and that but when you look at what has been done in the last transfer window it was debateable whether the squad had improved. Yes Grealish threw a spanner in the works and we’ll never know what we would have done had he stayed put, whether a couple of those attacking players would have come in for example. But was it Smith that decided what we did? Was he restricted? It wasn’t that difficult to arrive where we did last season with what was spent and yes, Smith might struggle to push on further even with backing but I think the squad we have is by no means guaranteed for top half and if we’re not going to see the ambition from above we might as well stick with him. Time will tell on that.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Beard82 on October 17, 2021, 07:08:40 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Clark W Griswold on October 17, 2021, 06:57:25 PM
Quote from: DB on October 17, 2021, 02:27:22 PM
Quote from: Clark W Griswold on October 17, 2021, 12:27:29 PM
It depends. If there is real ambition from the owners then despite all of the good stuff he’s done, the jury is out as to whether he has the ability to compete with the leagues top coaches. If the intention is just to sit in mid table then so far he’s shown that he’s good enough to do that now the squad has been developed sufficiently. And if it is the case we owe him the chance to keep his job considering he’s got us there. I would only think about replacing him if we really do drop like a stone and look like relegation fodder, but I doubt that will happen.

From the owners poi t of view they will want more ethan that. They will progress each season. So far he has done that. This season looks as if he has a lot to do to get higher than last season. I hope he can but think he has reached his top of his ability as a manager, not just on yesterday though.

Ok, but how do you know what the owners want? They say this and that but when you look at what has been done in the last transfer window it was debateable whether the squad had improved. Yes Grealish threw a spanner in the works and we’ll never know what we would have done had he stayed put, whether a couple of those attacking players would have come in for example. But was it Smith that decided what we did? Was he restricted? It wasn’t that difficult to arrive where we did last season with what was spent and yes, Smith might struggle to push on further even with backing but I think the squad we have is by no means guaranteed for top half and if we’re not going to see the ambition from above we might as well stick with him. Time will tell on that.
I think most people would look at the squad and think it is top half.  We have two proven PL Strikers, Luiz and McGinn are both considered regularly linked to "bigger" clubs.  Mings is an England International and Targett, Konsa are regularly tipped as "best non capped" players, and EMI is one of the goalkeepers in the world.  Trorae and El Ghazi both scored 7 or 8 goals last season, and Baily and Emi2 are no mugs.  Im not saying were top 6 - but I think finishing below 10th would be a poor result.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on October 17, 2021, 07:15:57 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Clark W Griswold on October 17, 2021, 06:40:06 PM
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on October 17, 2021, 06:32:39 PM
Quote from: Clark W Griswold on October 17, 2021, 12:27:29 PM
I would only think about replacing him if we really do drop like a stone and look like relegation fodder, but I doubt that will happen.

This kind of thinking scares the shit out of me. It's something we've done under Ellis, the latter years of Lerner and of course Xia with Steve Bruce. We no longer have deadwood owners who are happy just to see us in the PL. If we can't be ambitious now we never will be. Dean inherited the most expensive assembled squad in the history of the Championship, he's been given more money than almost every PL manager since our return. Of course he had a major rebuild to do but he was supported to the tune of close to £150m and despite staying up by the skin of our teeth it took the Covid break for him to find the time to reorganise the defence that was the second worst in the league.

As I said yesterday, I love everything about him and he's absolutely perfect for us with one exception; the football. Maybe I'm not seeing it but three years in and I'm still struggling to see how he wants us to play other than work hard, run around a lot and get McGinn to use his bum. The other obvious thing is we generally do well against the top teams when we press and counter yet we really struggle against the midtable/lower teams.

Admittedly, 8 games in is nothing and it really shouldn't be a concern but we still have the post-Christmas record from last season lingering in the background.

Yes, well if you read the rest of what I’ve posted rather than focusing on that bit it has a much different ‘kind of thinking’ to what you’re suggesting.

No offence intended Mr G but the post was what you think the board could be thinking followed by what you would do. I don't want us 'drop like a stone and look like relegation fodder' before taking action. Losing our best players, failing to attract new ones, losing the momentum that's been building since we got relegated and our owners losing interest. It's the worst possible scenario on so many levels, it fact it would be negligent of the board to wait so long.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on October 17, 2021, 07:23:57 PM
			

			

				If we want to keep Konsa, SJM  Emi you don’t wait until the vultures are circling.
I don think Smith is in any immediate danger but I don’t think he will survive a run like last season.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: danno on October 17, 2021, 07:30:52 PM
			

			

				It may have been the most expensive squad in the championship, but was it a good one?  How many of those players did we recoup money on?  How many fit central defenders did we even have when Smith took over? Our GK situation? Etc

He has had a lot of money to spend since promotion, that is fair. But that is probably in part due to the fact he has had to buy assemble practically a whole team to replace the expensive duds (Hogan Lansbury etc) and all the out of contract players who left.

I can understand the disquiet, but I look at the squad and still think this can turn very very quickly. Look at Tottenham.  Top of the league, then a disaster and Nuno is on borrowed time, now fifth. All within eight games.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Clark W Griswold on October 17, 2021, 07:39:56 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Beard82 on October 17, 2021, 07:08:40 PM
Quote from: Clark W Griswold on October 17, 2021, 06:57:25 PM
Quote from: DB on October 17, 2021, 02:27:22 PM
Quote from: Clark W Griswold on October 17, 2021, 12:27:29 PM
It depends. If there is real ambition from the owners then despite all of the good stuff he’s done, the jury is out as to whether he has the ability to compete with the leagues top coaches. If the intention is just to sit in mid table then so far he’s shown that he’s good enough to do that now the squad has been developed sufficiently. And if it is the case we owe him the chance to keep his job considering he’s got us there. I would only think about replacing him if we really do drop like a stone and look like relegation fodder, but I doubt that will happen.

From the owners poi t of view they will want more ethan that. They will progress each season. So far he has done that. This season looks as if he has a lot to do to get higher than last season. I hope he can but think he has reached his top of his ability as a manager, not just on yesterday though.

Ok, but how do you know what the owners want? They say this and that but when you look at what has been done in the last transfer window it was debateable whether the squad had improved. Yes Grealish threw a spanner in the works and we’ll never know what we would have done had he stayed put, whether a couple of those attacking players would have come in for example. But was it Smith that decided what we did? Was he restricted? It wasn’t that difficult to arrive where we did last season with what was spent and yes, Smith might struggle to push on further even with backing but I think the squad we have is by no means guaranteed for top half and if we’re not going to see the ambition from above we might as well stick with him. Time will tell on that.
I think most people would look at the squad and think it is top half.  We have two proven PL Strikers, Luiz and McGinn are both considered regularly linked to "bigger" clubs.  Mings is an England International and Targett, Konsa are regularly tipped as "best non capped" players, and EMI is one of the goalkeepers in the world.  Trorae and El Ghazi both scored 7 or 8 goals last season, and Baily and Emi2 are no mugs.  Im not saying were top 6 - but I think finishing below 10th would be a poor result.

Ok Bud but how many of the current squad have played regularly in a top half PL team?
Martinez (who is brilliant by the way) was part of a squad, Luiz never played for his and Young did 3-4 years ago. 
So I’m not sure how you can conclude that they’re good enough. I will say we’ve had bad luck with injuries and that 3 out of the 4 defenders who played well last season have dipped a bit in form and this doesn’t help.
Personally I think with everyone hitting form and really good luck with injuries then 9th or 10th is possible but it’s a very big if.

My issue with him at the moment is this fucking about with the formation.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: RamboandBruno on October 17, 2021, 07:48:38 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Clark W Griswold on October 17, 2021, 07:39:56 PM
Quote from: Beard82 on October 17, 2021, 07:08:40 PM
Quote from: Clark W Griswold on October 17, 2021, 06:57:25 PM
Quote from: DB on October 17, 2021, 02:27:22 PM
Quote from: Clark W Griswold on October 17, 2021, 12:27:29 PM
It depends. If there is real ambition from the owners then despite all of the good stuff he’s done, the jury is out as to whether he has the ability to compete with the leagues top coaches. If the intention is just to sit in mid table then so far he’s shown that he’s good enough to do that now the squad has been developed sufficiently. And if it is the case we owe him the chance to keep his job considering he’s got us there. I would only think about replacing him if we really do drop like a stone and look like relegation fodder, but I doubt that will happen.

From the owners poi t of view they will want more ethan that. They will progress each season. So far he has done that. This season looks as if he has a lot to do to get higher than last season. I hope he can but think he has reached his top of his ability as a manager, not just on yesterday though.

Ok, but how do you know what the owners want? They say this and that but when you look at what has been done in the last transfer window it was debateable whether the squad had improved. Yes Grealish threw a spanner in the works and we’ll never know what we would have done had he stayed put, whether a couple of those attacking players would have come in for example. But was it Smith that decided what we did? Was he restricted? It wasn’t that difficult to arrive where we did last season with what was spent and yes, Smith might struggle to push on further even with backing but I think the squad we have is by no means guaranteed for top half and if we’re not going to see the ambition from above we might as well stick with him. Time will tell on that.
I think most people would look at the squad and think it is top half.  We have two proven PL Strikers, Luiz and McGinn are both considered regularly linked to "bigger" clubs.  Mings is an England International and Targett, Konsa are regularly tipped as "best non capped" players, and EMI is one of the goalkeepers in the world.  Trorae and El Ghazi both scored 7 or 8 goals last season, and Baily and Emi2 are no mugs.  Im not saying were top 6 - but I think finishing below 10th would be a poor result.

Ok Bud but how many of the current squad have played regularly in a top half PL team?
Martinez (who is brilliant by the way) was part of a squad, Luiz never played for his and Young did 3-4 years ago. 
So I’m not sure how you can conclude that they’re good enough. I will say we’ve had bad luck with injuries and that 3 out of the 4 defenders who played well last season have dipped a bit in form and this doesn’t help.
Personally I think with everyone hitting form and really good luck with injuries then 9th or 10th is possible but it’s a very big if.

My issue with him at the moment is this fucking about with the formation.

The formation i agree with you. When Bailey and Traore are fit, along with Beundia, it will seem ridiculous to continue with Targett and Cash as our main attacking outlets in the wide positions. 

However, i dont think saying 9th or 10th is a big if, is widely pessimistic, even given the aftershocks of yesterday. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on October 17, 2021, 07:56:43 PM
			

			

				All I can say is if with the squad we have got you think the manager is only good enough to get 10th or 11th out of it then you don’t think a lot of him and he needs to go ASAP

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: passport1 on October 17, 2021, 08:03:35 PM
			

			

				He's simply not good enough. When the owners decide that is conjecture  but he is nowhere near the level of manager for their stated ambition.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Mister E on October 17, 2021, 08:22:44 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Beard82 on October 17, 2021, 06:53:48 PM
I really hope he can turn it round.  Think he has so many good qualities - just something doesn't seem quite right since the end of last season... 
You're right: we had that clusterfuck close-season where we were given the runaround by Joe and his agent, and we didn't get a proper set of friendlies in to test the players. Add to that the fact that Ings was probably a panic buy, offering £8-10m over the odds for a player in his last year (not that I'm complaining about having the player here), and Bailey's transfer seemed very, very rushed (remember that bizarre player-announcement?!).
Smith putting a 3-5-2 out a few weeks' ago was lauded as a masterstroke. Since then, it has outlived its welcome because it seems to have become the go-to formation rather than one of a number of flexible approaches.
Yesterday, 3-5-2 got us 2-0 against indifferent opposition. When Luiz tired and Buendia needed to go off, the obvious thing to have done would be to go 4-3-3, playing 4-5-1 without the ball (Ings Watkins and JPB or AEG up front). This would have nullified Semedo who was getting forward far too much.
So, for me, Smith's in-game tactical decision-making is in question.
That's without going into the fuckwittery plaguing Mings and Tuanzebe yesterday.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on October 17, 2021, 08:26:48 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: danno on October 17, 2021, 07:30:52 PM
It may have been the most expensive squad in the championship, but was it a good one?  How many of those players did we recoup money on?  How many fit central defenders did we even have when Smith took over? Our GK situation? Etc

He has had a lot of money to spend since promotion, that is fair. But that is probably in part due to the fact he has had to buy assemble practically a whole team to replace the expensive duds (Hogan Lansbury etc) and all the out of contract players who left.

I can understand the disquiet, but I look at the squad and still think this can turn very very quickly. Look at Tottenham.  Top of the league, then a disaster and Nuno is on borrowed time, now fifth. All within eight games.

Agree, Danno, we've got a great squad together and Dean deserves heaps of praise for the recruitment. He also has managed to get the attitude right amongst the whole squad, not an easy thing to do as you build up both the numbers and quality. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on October 17, 2021, 08:27:21 PM
			

			

				Oh how different this place is within a couple of weeks. Beat Man Utd in their backyard for the first time in more than a decade and we're all happy, play really badly for 10 minutes and it's the worst thing in the world.

My son said asked on the way hike why we'd bothered going to lose like that. And when I asked him how he was he said 'absolutely rubbish', which I guess sums it all up.

If course a defeat like that is of concern, and certainly if it continues there's a big problem, but we're not there yet, we're still a work in progress. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on October 17, 2021, 08:55:45 PM
			

			

				It feels like we’re going backwards. 3 goals conceded three times so far this season, no set formation and the sort of soft underbelly that we showed too often in our first season back.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Richard E on October 17, 2021, 08:58:38 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: passport1 on October 17, 2021, 08:03:35 PM
He's simply not good enough. When the owners decide that is conjecture  but he is nowhere near the level of manager for their stated ambition.

I’d rather this wasn’t true, but I suspect that it is. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: TonyD on October 17, 2021, 09:02:34 PM
			

			

				You can have a great squad, experiment with formations (and rightly so) and be a great bloke.   

But if you can’t more times than not - be able to make the right subs and changes at the right times - then you won’t win anything.   

Game management is a basic requirement.  
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on October 17, 2021, 09:30:05 PM
			

			

				It’s dead simple for me
We’ve got a squad capable of finishing in the top 8 imo
We have an infrastructure and investment programme capable of the same
we have a manager who will be given time to deliver just that

The moment our ambition is less than that we might as well pack up
As I’ve said before people who think Dean Smith is only capable of 10/11 obviously don’t think he’s much good
I’m hoping he’s better than that we shall see if not we will need someone that is

Dumbing down,Setting a low bar, making excuses should be over
it’s time to deliver this season, I still think we can do it



			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Rory on October 17, 2021, 10:02:38 PM
			

			

				Just my opinion, but I think we need to show patience for now. We aren't getting relegated. If progress hasn't been good enough, then as soon as the season finishes, we say thanks Dean, but we're moving on, and back his successor to the hilt.

I don't think he's faultless, and I have seen enough to be fairly sure he isn't the manager to establish us in the top 6/8. But despite some frustrating runs and the odd very poor result, in the grand scheme of things he hasn't failed us yet, and has improved us year on year. 

If this season turns out to be a disappointment, it's fair to say he has had backing and had time and we need a change to progress. But I think he deserves a graceful transition, and deserves not to be sacked mid-season like some of the wastes of skin that have managed us in the past.

I know many will disagree, but I think if this weekend was his last as our manager, overall he would've done a very good job. Yesterday was a very poor result, but to bin him now would be reactionary, classless and a mistake, in my view.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Villan82 on October 17, 2021, 11:52:20 PM
			

			

				Rory, while I agree that now probably isn't the time to say goodbye to him, I believe it may well be in a few weeks time. If after 11 games we are looking like a team that will average a point per game I don't think that's good enough.

Whether that is classless or not is to me irrelevant. He has had three years and hundreds of millions. If we let sentiment get in the way of the right decision then we may as well fold up the tent and give up. Nice bloke, one of my favourite managers of all time, great memories, some good football...but as I get older and more aware of my own mortality I just don't want us to be looking back at yet another 'what if'. I want us to grasp the opportunity these owners give us. I want us to be successful. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ROBBO on October 17, 2021, 11:55:00 PM
			

			

				Mings for me is the biggest worry. He is captain and supposed to lead by example but he seems to lack the enthusiasm, desire of past seaons. He used to be very vocal, even that seems to have dropped off, something is not right with him. A previous poster talked about the technical ability of oue centre backs and he is dead right, how many times do we see the back line playing pass ball to each other with the end result being Mings hitting a nothing ball down the line.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: brontebilly on October 18, 2021, 12:12:47 AM
			

			

				Is a bit of patience called for right now? The 'transition' post Grealish was always going to lead to inconsistent results early on. We haven't been helped with Bailey picking up an injury after his game winning contribution v Everton. Deano has his weaknesses as a manager, particularly during a game. A couple of weeks ago, it was being suggested he could be the next England manager and now he has to go. Maybe the truth is in the middle. 

My biggest issue is that the recruitment last summer was muddled. That's continued through to team selection this season. Deano needs to settle on a defined team setup for the next few weeks and that's going to involve some hard decisions especially with Sanson and Bailey coming back.  
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Rory on October 18, 2021, 12:17:34 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Villan82 on October 17, 2021, 11:52:20 PM
Rory, while I agree that now probably isn't the time to say goodbye to him, I believe it may well be in a few weeks time. If after 11 games we are looking like a team that will average a point per game I don't think that's good enough.

Whether that is classless or not is to me irrelevant. He has had three years and hundreds of millions. If we let sentiment get in the way of the right decision then we may as well fold up the tent and give up. Nice bloke, one of my favourite managers of all time, great memories, some good football...but as I get older and more aware of my own mortality I just don't want us to be looking back at yet another 'what if'. I want us to grasp the opportunity these owners give us. I want us to be successful.

All a matter of opinions, mate. I don't disagree with anything you've said, I'm just not ready to pull the trigger just yet. Let's hope things improve!
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Scott Nielsen on October 18, 2021, 05:07:23 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: john e on October 17, 2021, 07:56:43 PM
All I can say is if with the squad we have got you think the manager is only good enough to get 10th or 11th out of it then you don’t think a lot of him and he needs to go ASAP


Our wage bill places us in 11th place. Anything above that could reasonably be considered an achievement (of varying degrees, of course). Anything less, the opposite. 

Going into the season, I predicted a lower placing than that mostly because I think our midfield is very inconsistent and, frankly, not as good as it needs to be. I was not prepared for this drop in form of our back line, I admit. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ozzjim on October 18, 2021, 07:27:38 AM
			

			

				The back line are struggling because they don't know their roles well enough. Mings and Konsa look very unsettled in a 3. The £33m on Buendia bought a predominantly right sided attacking mid that Smith insists on playing centrally. The Norwich fans all said he was at his best from the right. Ings and Watkins is clearly not working, he has to bite the bullet for the good of the team and go back to a variation of 4-3-3. Most of all though, he has to find a way to get 11 very expensive footballers to keep the ball better in times of stress and pressure. At Spurs we started to give it away a lot and conceded. Same against Wolves. There are a lot more alarm bells than signs he can sort it for me. Time to actz and time for the owner to show where their ambition is long term. Is it 8th - 12th and self sufficient bobbling along, or is it to challenge top 6. If it is the latter, thee have to act. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Beard82 on October 18, 2021, 08:05:34 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Scott Nielsen on October 18, 2021, 05:07:23 AM
Quote from: john e on October 17, 2021, 07:56:43 PM
All I can say is if with the squad we have got you think the manager is only good enough to get 10th or 11th out of it then you don’t think a lot of him and he needs to go ASAP


Our wage bill places us in 11th place. Anything above that could reasonably be considered an achievement (of varying degrees, of course). Anything less, the opposite. 

Going into the season, I predicted a lower placing than that mostly because I think our midfield is very inconsistent and, frankly, not as good as it needs to be. I was not prepared for this drop in form of our back line, I admit.

I’m not sure that with villa currently the wage bill is a clear indicator.  Unlike most other teams we have a very lean squad - there are no players sitting there on high wages but not contributing.  
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on October 18, 2021, 08:24:11 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Scott Nielsen on October 18, 2021, 05:07:23 AM
Quote from: john e on October 17, 2021, 07:56:43 PM
All I can say is if with the squad we have got you think the manager is only good enough to get 10th or 11th out of it then you don’t think a lot of him and he needs to go ASAP


Our wage bill places us in 11th place. Anything above that could reasonably be considered an achievement (of varying degrees, of course). Anything less, the opposite. 

Going into the season, I predicted a lower placing than that mostly because I think our midfield is very inconsistent and, frankly, not as good as it needs to be. I was not prepared for this drop in form of our back line, I admit. 

Well if you’re right and I really hope you’re not as it is an extremely pessimistic view we will struggle to hold onto our best players
I can virtually guarantee that McGinn Martinez Cash etc Will want to play European football and if the best we can offer is 10th or 11th using the wage bill as the excuse then we are in big troubles

What’s more they deserve to play at that level as did Grealish 

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: algy on October 18, 2021, 08:42:06 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: john e on October 18, 2021, 08:24:11 AM
Quote from: Scott Nielsen on October 18, 2021, 05:07:23 AM
Quote from: john e on October 17, 2021, 07:56:43 PM
All I can say is if with the squad we have got you think the manager is only good enough to get 10th or 11th out of it then you don’t think a lot of him and he needs to go ASAP


Our wage bill places us in 11th place. Anything above that could reasonably be considered an achievement (of varying degrees, of course). Anything less, the opposite. 

Going into the season, I predicted a lower placing than that mostly because I think our midfield is very inconsistent and, frankly, not as good as it needs to be. I was not prepared for this drop in form of our back line, I admit. 

Well if you’re right and I really hope you’re not as it is an extremely pessimistic view we will struggle to hold onto our best players
I can virtually guarantee that McGinn Martinez Cash etc Will want to play European football and if the best we can offer is 10th or 11th using the wage bill as the excuse then we are in big troubles

What’s more they deserve to play at that level as did Grealish
Come the end of this season, we need to be either in Europe, or close enough to that a statement signing early in the summer transfer window will be enough to keep the wolves at bay.

I like Dean Smith, think he's a good manager, and think he can take us there. But if the ambition is to compete at the top end of the table, the target has to be something like that. And he'll need to meet those targets.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on October 18, 2021, 08:51:48 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: algy on October 18, 2021, 08:42:06 AM
Quote from: john e on October 18, 2021, 08:24:11 AM
Quote from: Scott Nielsen on October 18, 2021, 05:07:23 AM
Quote from: john e on October 17, 2021, 07:56:43 PM
All I can say is if with the squad we have got you think the manager is only good enough to get 10th or 11th out of it then you don’t think a lot of him and he needs to go ASAP


Our wage bill places us in 11th place. Anything above that could reasonably be considered an achievement (of varying degrees, of course). Anything less, the opposite. 

Going into the season, I predicted a lower placing than that mostly because I think our midfield is very inconsistent and, frankly, not as good as it needs to be. I was not prepared for this drop in form of our back line, I admit. 

Well if you’re right and I really hope you’re not as it is an extremely pessimistic view we will struggle to hold onto our best players
I can virtually guarantee that McGinn Martinez Cash etc Will want to play European football and if the best we can offer is 10th or 11th using the wage bill as the excuse then we are in big troubles

What’s more they deserve to play at that level as did Grealish
Come the end of this season, we need to be either in Europe, or close enough to that a statement signing early in the summer transfer window will be enough to keep the wolves at bay.

I like Dean Smith, think he's a good manager, and think he can take us there. But if the ambition is to compete at the top end of the table, the target has to be something like that. And he'll need to meet those targets.

Agreed and if he’s good enough and he’ll be given time to prove he’s good enough we’ll be in Europe or pushing

And if he’s not good enough what we don’t do his lower the ambition level or the expectation level to pretend otherwise

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on October 18, 2021, 08:58:17 AM
			

			

				I wonder if the international break had more of an effect. Smith won't be used to losing so many players for it.

Our out ball up the left for Watkins to chase isn't working either as we appear to have been sussed, so we need to change that too. I'm my view, that's an Austin MacPhee job as it is, in effect, a set play.

The midfield was congested on Saturday and for long spells we were the better side in that area of the pitch. The last 20 or so minutes saw us ceding for of the ball and territory and the confidence was a bit wobbly. When the goals happened we just lost our heads. That's something the manager needs to work on. It might be time for him to do some 1:1 stuff with certain players again too. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on October 18, 2021, 09:24:37 AM
			

			

				The 3 or 5 at the back needs ditching. All we're doing is putting a back up central defender in at the expense of an attacking player. We're not gaining much defensively as the last two games have shown, and have lost width (especially from the left) and Ings and Watkins aren't working as a front two.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Scott Nielsen on October 18, 2021, 09:30:18 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: john e on October 18, 2021, 08:24:11 AM
Quote from: Scott Nielsen on October 18, 2021, 05:07:23 AM
Quote from: john e on October 17, 2021, 07:56:43 PM
All I can say is if with the squad we have got you think the manager is only good enough to get 10th or 11th out of it then you don’t think a lot of him and he needs to go ASAP


Our wage bill places us in 11th place. Anything above that could reasonably be considered an achievement (of varying degrees, of course). Anything less, the opposite. 

Going into the season, I predicted a lower placing than that mostly because I think our midfield is very inconsistent and, frankly, not as good as it needs to be. I was not prepared for this drop in form of our back line, I admit. 

Well if you’re right and I really hope you’re not as it is an extremely pessimistic view we will struggle to hold onto our best players
I can virtually guarantee that McGinn Martinez Cash etc Will want to play European football and if the best we can offer is 10th or 11th using the wage bill as the excuse then we are in big troubles

What’s more they deserve to play at that level as did Grealish 


I, too, hope I am wildly wrong. No argument with the rest of your post. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: AV82EC on October 18, 2021, 09:42:25 AM
			

			

				It’s about a 90% correlation between player wages and final league position. This has been getting more entrenched over the last 10 years. We’ve been able to catch up pretty fast but in order to press on, the income side of the FFP equation needs to be improved drastically. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: RamboandBruno on October 18, 2021, 09:56:42 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on October 18, 2021, 09:24:37 AM
The 3 or 5 at the back needs ditching. All we're doing is putting a back up central defender in at the expense of an attacking player. We're not gaining much defensively as the last two games have shown, and have lost width (especially from the left) and Ings and Watkins aren't working as a front two.

Apart from games when the coaching staff decide a tactical shift is needed, possibly against the better teams with more attacking threat, it makes no sense to me to have our main attacking thrust to come via our full backs. Especially when we have spent near 100 mill on attacking talent. Surely he has to get Beundia and Bailey in the team when their all fit, which means You can only play one of Ollie or Ings, unless he rotates and plays Ollie wide on some occasions at the expense of either Bailey or Beundia.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SamTheMouse on October 18, 2021, 10:15:38 AM
			

			

				I am very fond of Dean and hope he's the man to lead us onwards and upwards. But even I'm starting to worry that he might only be "just good enough" to keep us treading water. Not a disaster, not even bad, just lacking the ability to get us into the top half of the table come May.

This observation is mainly based on the fact that so much of our play still revolves around hoofed balls played by Mings under no pressure. I can't see why he tolerates it, unless it's by design.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: AV82EC on October 18, 2021, 10:21:57 AM
			

			

				I must admit to being puzzled by this fascination or theory that seems to be developing that we’re a team that constantly pumps it down the left channel for Watkins to chase? Our play on Saturday for the first 65-70 minutes was at times slow but generally progressive and played to feet, yes there were a few long punts down the channels but what I saw was a Villa team trying to protect the ball, keep possession and play some front foot football. Generally we were by far the more progressive team particularly McGinn and Luiz until we collapsed at the end. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on October 18, 2021, 10:45:43 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on October 18, 2021, 09:24:37 AM
The 3 or 5 at the back needs ditching. All we're doing is putting a back up central defender in at the expense of an attacking player. We're not gaining much defensively as the last two games have shown, and have lost width (especially from the left) and Ings and Watkins aren't working as a front two.
exactly this.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: boozey182 on October 18, 2021, 10:46:40 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Rory on October 17, 2021, 10:02:38 PM
Just my opinion, but I think we need to show patience for now. We aren't getting relegated. If progress hasn't been good enough, then as soon as the season finishes, we say thanks Dean, but we're moving on, and back his successor to the hilt.

I don't think he's faultless, and I have seen enough to be fairly sure he isn't the manager to establish us in the top 6/8. But despite some frustrating runs and the odd very poor result, in the grand scheme of things he hasn't failed us yet, and has improved us year on year. 

If this season turns out to be a disappointment, it's fair to say he has had backing and had time and we need a change to progress. But I think he deserves a graceful transition, and deserves not to be sacked mid-season like some of the wastes of skin that have managed us in the past.

I know many will disagree, but I think if this weekend was his last as our manager, overall he would've done a very good job. Yesterday was a very poor result, but to bin him now would be reactionary, classless and a mistake, in my view.

This is where I am at the moment. Saturday was the sort of punch to the stomach that I thought I wouldn't have to suffer any more, so I can fully understand people's reaction to it. It was a complete farce, and one the fans could clearly see coming - the silence from the Holte when the first went in was as ominous as it was eerie. I think we made more noise in support after the second, that first was just a collective "oh no...we've all seen how this ends".

Things like that take a while to shake off, but we don't have time. This is a massive week for Dean, with three matches coming up that we are certainly capable of winning, but equally capable of losing all three. He said on Saturday that he is the one that makes the decisions, and he has some huge ones to make this week.

~ What do do with the formation. I was so impressed with how well drilled we looked with 3-5-2 following the last international break, and how it was something different to fit the opposition. That seems like I was being a bit generous now, because that has how we've played every match, no matter who the opposition were. I want to see him change things, even though I think 3-5-2 might work for Arsenal away (it is certainly better suited to that fixture than Wolves at home...) - but I want to know that he is capable of adapting.

~ I was worried when we bought Ings. It was an amazing signing in terms of the 'out of nowhere' factor, but I felt it was a bit of a panic, maybe a way to appease the fans, and not a great use of that money. I'm not saying I have been proved right yet, but the fact that don't seem to know exactly what to do with him and Watkins (as well as Bailey and Buenida) does suggest that maybe he wasn't the right signing. Again, if it turns out that we end up playing different formations and line-ups to play different teams, sometimes using him off the bench, then great - but at the moment, we look disjointed and Ollie is suffering as a result. Ings missed two excellent chances on Saturday - we don't create enough, and he doesn't help the rest of our play enough, for him to be so wasteful.

~ I don't think we can rely on Axel week-in, week-out yet. He looked all at sea on Saturday, and was lucky not to have given a couple of goals away in the first half. Hause hadn't done much wrong, so if we are going to insist on 3 at the back, we can't keep picking Axel. He's 4th choice there at the moment.

~ Bailey and Buendia. Everything started going wrong when we took Buendia off on Saturday (not criticising the substitution, as I think he had indicated that he needed to come off). His ball to Ings for the chance in the first half deserved an assist. Obviously we don't really know what is going on with Bailey, but we need to get our best players playing more minutes. That seems so obvious, but we have been giving the ball away far too cheaply, and players like Bailey, Buendia, Luiz, McGinn need to be playing together every single match. I'd like to see 4-3-3, with Buendia either as part of the midfield or forward 3, depending on the opposition. Maybe going 3 at the back when it is absolutely necessary (it has worked at times). 

Obviously there are mitigating circumstances for our up-and-down start, but as john e says, the time for making excuses is now over. Bailey's injury is incredibly frustrating, but we shouldn't be so dependant on one player (again). The pre-season was all over the place, but we've had two international breaks now to start putting things right.

I remain positive about Dean and our prospects for the season, but the next three matches are going to have such a huge say in how justified this positivity is. We weren't great on Saturday, but we should have done enough to win that match. We have beaten Man U and a pretty decent Everton side so far, and shown signs in some other matches that we are improving. Our youth team continue to impress, playing great football and winning consistently. We have the best 'keeper in the world, McGinn looks better than ever and Bailey could be one of the most exciting players we've seen down VP for years and years. We are getting there, but any more afternoons like Saturday and Dean might not be the one taking us.

He's not stupid though - he'll know that we need a response on Friday. I hope he gets it right.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on October 18, 2021, 10:58:47 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: AV82EC on October 18, 2021, 10:21:57 AM
I must admit to being puzzled by this fascination or theory that seems to be developing that we’re a team that constantly pumps it down the left channel for Watkins to chase? Our play on Saturday for the first 65-70 minutes was at times slow but generally progressive and played to feet, yes there were a few long punts down the channels but what I saw was a Villa team trying to protect the ball, keep possession and play some front foot football. Generally we were by far the more progressive team particularly McGinn and Luiz until we collapsed at the end. 

I thought we played some lovely football at times first half, that Ings chance he should've scored was a wonderful move with balls being played into players moving into space like Buendia. WOuld've been a really good team goal and chance Cash put over right at the end was also a decent move.

That sitter Targett missed at Old Trafford was also a very good move that ripped apart a 300m + team.

Perhaps if people want us to do it for 90 minutes every week then they should wait until we start spending 50m on full backs and 70m + on attacking players otherwise it's a bit too much to ask.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: kippaxvilla2 on October 18, 2021, 11:09:41 AM
			

			

				Back to game management.  We were so much better at that last season.  I think it is a lot to do with Terry having left.  The defence is so much worse in my view and he used to manage the games himself so passed that knowledge on to the players.  I think his is a bigger loss than we realise (as a Defence Coach and Advisor) that is.  In terms of this squad, the best one we have had for years.  So the question is, where should it be punching ?  I would argue top 8.  You have got the sky five, Leicester, West Ham and then who else?  I don't even think West Ham's squad is better (but they do have Soucek who we are missing) but they are clearly all working for Moyes and shithousing decent results even if they don't play well.  
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on October 18, 2021, 11:22:51 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: AV82EC on October 18, 2021, 10:21:57 AM
I must admit to being puzzled by this fascination or theory that seems to be developing that we’re a team that constantly pumps it down the left channel for Watkins to chase? Our play on Saturday for the first 65-70 minutes was at times slow but generally progressive and played to feet, yes there were a few long punts down the channels but what I saw was a Villa team trying to protect the ball, keep possession and play some front foot football. Generally we were by far the more progressive team particularly McGinn and Luiz until we collapsed at the end. 

It’s got to the point with me that I’m actually glad when Mings hoofs it forward
The alternative is to see them trying to control a ball passing it round the back slowly and very often panic stations As soon as there is any pressing
It’s actually embarrassing to watch at times and is without doubt the weakest part of our game

The centre backs aren’t good enough to play out effectively a more competent ballplayer from the midfield needs to drop back to get things going that’s why we should only play 2 centre backs 

As soon as the ball is in the middle of the park with the midfield players progressing to the final third I actually think we are quite decent And are capable of playing some attractive football

But The link up play between defence and midfield coming out from the back is abysmal
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on October 18, 2021, 11:28:29 AM
			

			

				Are you being a bit harsh on Konsa, John? He looks quite comfortable on the ball to me, and has brought it out quite nicely on a few occasions this season.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ozzjim on October 18, 2021, 11:31:13 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: john e on October 18, 2021, 11:22:51 AM
Quote from: AV82EC on October 18, 2021, 10:21:57 AM
I must admit to being puzzled by this fascination or theory that seems to be developing that we’re a team that constantly pumps it down the left channel for Watkins to chase? Our play on Saturday for the first 65-70 minutes was at times slow but generally progressive and played to feet, yes there were a few long punts down the channels but what I saw was a Villa team trying to protect the ball, keep possession and play some front foot football. Generally we were by far the more progressive team particularly McGinn and Luiz until we collapsed at the end. 

It’s got to the point with me that I’m actually glad when Mings hoofs it forward
The alternative is to see them trying to control a ball passing it round the back slowly and very often panic stations As soon as there is any pressing
It’s actually embarrassing to watch at times and is without doubt the weakest part of our game

The centre backs aren’t good enough to play out effectively a more competent ballplayer from the midfield needs to drop back to get things going that’s why we should only play 2 centre backs 

As soon as the ball is in the middle of the park with the midfield players progressing to the final third I actually think we are quite decent And are capable of playing some attractive football

But The link up play between defence and midfield coming out from the back is abysmal

Also telling that the best sides playing 3 often incorporate a full back into the back 3 as their outlet on the ball. Playing 3 proper centre backs just limits your ability on it.

Even then though, in game it was obvious we needed extra in the middle of the park after we scored the second. Shore up the midfield, change shape, close the game. Nothing. Like for like changes. Ings or Watkins as soon as the second goes in should have been off. Konsa right back, 2 centre halves, drop Targett in at left back and get the extra man in the centre of midfield. Keep the ball. Have some width up the pitch as an outlet. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on October 18, 2021, 11:35:48 AM
			

			

				I actually wonder if Luiz in back 3 might be worth a look playing someone like Burnley at home (I expect it to be scrapped now though).

If you want someone to bring it out from the back well he's one of our best technical players in the squad and would allow us to go McGinn-Sanson as energetic two in CM with a few attackers ahead.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on October 18, 2021, 11:53:00 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: SoccerHQ on October 18, 2021, 11:35:48 AM
I actually wonder if Luiz in back 3 might be worth a look playing someone like Burnley at home (I expect it to be scrapped now though).

If you want someone to bring it out from the back well he's one of our best technical players in the squad and would allow us to go McGinn-Sanson as energetic two in CM with a few attackers ahead.

Christ no, why on earth would Smith try that?!  For a start, he's only what, 5'8"? Sticking him in defence would be a disaster, Dyche would have every single long ball aimed in his direction.


			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on October 18, 2021, 11:53:39 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on October 18, 2021, 11:28:29 AM
Are you being a bit harsh on Konsa, John? He looks quite comfortable on the ball to me, and has brought it out quite nicely on a few occasions this season.

Not for me he’s not
He’s the best central defender we have because he doesn’t take liabilities with the ball just does the defending part of his job and doesn’t try to be anything more which is fine

In fairness there’s not that many central defenders who are that comfortable with the ball that Ben White probably the best of them along with the two lads from Liverpool and Man City

But you don’t have to be Beckenbauer, players like Terry, Steve Bruce, Tony Adams, our own Sean Teale, Cuellar,  Chester we’re all terrific centre halves without being particularly gifted technically
They can’t all be Paul McGraths




			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: nick harper on October 18, 2021, 12:22:00 PM
			

			

				I think we messed up signing Ings. Not that he’s not a top striker and that we needed to beef up the squad given we were fortunate Watkins got through the whole of last season, but he’s 29, at the peak of his career and is not going to want to rotate and sit on the bench.

It wasn’t a smart signing in the context of the shape Smith has always played.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on October 18, 2021, 12:32:08 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: nick harper on October 18, 2021, 12:22:00 PM
I think we messed up signing Ings. Not that he’s not a top striker and that we needed to beef up the squad given we were fortunate Watkins got through the whole of last season, but he’s 29, at the peak of his career and is not going to want to rotate and sit on the bench.

It wasn’t a smart signing in the context of the shape Smith has always played.

I'm starting to worry you might be right. The whole signing came out of nowhere once we'd signed Greasy, so it looked a bit like the management team were told to go out and get it done once Ratboy was offically gone. He's a good player and I'd rather have him than not, but the sum of him and Watkins is less than the parts.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Mister E on October 18, 2021, 12:40:58 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on October 18, 2021, 12:32:08 PM
Quote from: nick harper on October 18, 2021, 12:22:00 PM
I think we messed up signing Ings. Not that he’s not a top striker and that we needed to beef up the squad given we were fortunate Watkins got through the whole of last season, but he’s 29, at the peak of his career and is not going to want to rotate and sit on the bench.
It wasn’t a smart signing in the context of the shape Smith has always played.
I'm starting to worry you might be right. The whole signing came out of nowhere once we'd signed Greasy, so it looked a bit like the management team were told to go out and get it done once Ratboy was offically gone. He's a good player and I'd rather have him than not, but the sum of him and Watkins is less than the parts.
As I said earlier on this thread, I believe it was a panic buy and we paid over the odds for someone in their last season. 
However, he and Watkins may need to get used to sharing that furthest-forward player, with Watkins either on the left of a three or one of them starting from the bench.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Smithy on October 18, 2021, 12:43:51 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: nick harper on October 18, 2021, 12:22:00 PM
I think we messed up signing Ings. Not that he’s not a top striker and that we needed to beef up the squad given we were fortunate Watkins got through the whole of last season, but he’s 29, at the peak of his career and is not going to want to rotate and sit on the bench.

It wasn’t a smart signing in the context of the shape Smith has always played.

I couldn't disagree more.  These pages were full of people complaining about our lack of depth up front last season, with really only Watkins as a tried and tested option for a central striker.  The fact that we're struggling to find a formation that lets us play both of our England forwards isn't an indication that signing him was a mistake, it's an indication we now have a squad with more good players than we've previously had, and we're still trying to find a way to use them all at the same time.

Centre-forward was a key squad weakness last season, and we strengthened that position about as well as we possibly could, given we don't offer European football.  Will Ings have a significant sell-on value? Almost certainly not, but that doesn't automatically make his signing a mistake.  At his current scoring rate he'll end up with 12-15 goals for the season - which is pretty good, and I think we'd all agree he's not played that well yet, either.

I think when Bailey is fit, and takes a wide-forward position, it'll likely be either Watkins OR Ings playing centrally, maybe Ollie wide left of the three.

It's also entirely possible that Ollie and Ings will just 'click' at some point.  But whatever happens, I don't view Ings as a bad signing at all.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on October 18, 2021, 12:44:37 PM
			

			

				I didn't see the Ings signing as a mistake, we needed top cover for Ollie and only had Davis as cover. What we need is for Dean to accept he has a full squad and can't play everybody. Stick to the plan, rotate and get the service into Ollie. Forget 3 at the back, stop with the wing backs, yes Cash did very well linking up with Buendia down the right on Saturday but Targett was playing too deep, neither a left back or a wing back. He never gave Mings any options other than to hoof it down the line to nobody. We saw exactly the same against Spurs which makes me wonder why Dean (and his coaches) hadn't tried to fix it during the international break.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on October 18, 2021, 12:45:14 PM
			

			

				I think we messed up if we have decided to play the system because of him.

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on October 18, 2021, 12:45:29 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on October 18, 2021, 11:53:00 AM
Quote from: SoccerHQ on October 18, 2021, 11:35:48 AM
I actually wonder if Luiz in back 3 might be worth a look playing someone like Burnley at home (I expect it to be scrapped now though).

If you want someone to bring it out from the back well he's one of our best technical players in the squad and would allow us to go McGinn-Sanson as energetic two in CM with a few attackers ahead.

Christ no, why on earth would Smith try that?!  For a start, he's only what, 5'8"? Sticking him in defence would be a disaster, Dyche would have every single long ball aimed in his direction.



I'm pretty sure he played in back 3 fairly often for Girona the season before he signed him.

And someone above or elsewhere made the point that other teams like to put a non CB in a back 3 sometimes to help with possesion e.g. Cesar Azpilicueta, that giant at 5ft 10. (Luiz is 5ft 9 btw).

Fernandinho also played plenty of times as CB for Man. City and think he's similar height and we'd obviously still have likes of Mings and Hause alongside him to do the stopping Chris Wood get headers at goal job.

Just an idea, that's all.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on October 18, 2021, 12:56:32 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: SoccerHQ on October 18, 2021, 12:45:29 PM
I'm pretty sure he played in back 3 fairly often for Girona the season before he signed him.

And someone above or elsewhere made the point that other teams like to put a non CB in a back 3 sometimes to help with possesion e.g. Cesar Azpilicueta, that giant at 5ft 10. (Luiz is 5ft 9 btw).

Fernandinho also played plenty of times as CB for Man. City and think he's similar height and we'd obviously still have likes of Mings and Hause alongside him to do the stopping Chris Wood get headers at goal job.

Just an idea, that's all.

The site I just checked doesn't have him playing for Girona in defence at all, where have you seen otherwise? On the wider point, teams like Man City can maybe get away with a ball playing midfielder in defence if they know they're going to have over ⅔ possession in game. That's something we don't do though.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on October 18, 2021, 01:43:08 PM
			

			

				Do we need a poll?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on October 18, 2021, 01:49:51 PM
			

			

				A report in the local paper I won't name says that we've got the second worst stats in the division for the amount of running in games. On Saturday, we saw Buendia asking to go off after 70 minutes because he was tired. I know we had a disrupted pre-season and there have been internationals etc, but this still struck me as strange.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on October 18, 2021, 01:51:28 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Drummond on October 18, 2021, 01:43:08 PM
Do we need a poll?
Lewandowski would be useful.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Smithy on October 18, 2021, 01:59:23 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on October 18, 2021, 01:49:51 PM
A report in the local paper I won't name says that we've got the second worst stats in the division for the amount of running in games. On Saturday, we saw Buendia asking to go off after 70 minutes because he was tired. I know we had a disrupted pre-season and there have been internationals etc, but this still struck me as strange.

Is that this season? I remember seeing something in our first season up that showed we'd done the least of amount of running in the entire league, when generally the relegation-threatened clubs (which included us at the time) were all at the top of the running table. I think Norwich might have run the most, from memory.

Disappointing if it's not changed.  I'm all for working smarter rather than harder, but I don't like the idea of being 'out worked' by the opposition week in week out.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on October 18, 2021, 02:10:12 PM
			

			

				Yes it was this morning.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: GordonCowansisthegreatest on October 18, 2021, 03:20:16 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: nick harper on October 18, 2021, 12:22:00 PM
I think we messed up signing Ings. Not that he’s not a top striker and that we needed to beef up the squad given we were fortunate Watkins got through the whole of last season, but he’s 29, at the peak of his career and is not going to want to rotate and sit on the bench.

It wasn’t a smart signing in the context of the shape Smith has always played.
If we could have seen the emergence of Cam Archer as a cf option before the purchase of Ings we could have saved some money, carried on with Oli Watkins as the main man and brought Cam on for a few cameos.
Best of both worlds I think.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ian. on October 18, 2021, 03:26:32 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: GordonCowansisthegreatest on October 18, 2021, 03:20:16 PM
Quote from: nick harper on October 18, 2021, 12:22:00 PM
I think we messed up signing Ings. Not that he’s not a top striker and that we needed to beef up the squad given we were fortunate Watkins got through the whole of last season, but he’s 29, at the peak of his career and is not going to want to rotate and sit on the bench.

It wasn’t a smart signing in the context of the shape Smith has always played.
If we could have seen the emergence of Cam Archer as a cf option before the purchase of Ings we could have saved some money, carried on with Oli Watkins as the main man and brought Cam on for a few cameos.
Best of both worlds I think.

The whole of last season we bemoaned the fact we only had Ollie Watkins and the Keinan Davis so we've bought an absolute quality striker and I've seen this weekend the words panic buy and messing up buying Ings.

He's a real talent and we could have some excellent years out of him. For some reason we are trying to shoehorn a system to fit him and Ollie together. The silly thing is due too injuries with our wide players we could easily have played both of these in a three up front with Buendia. Liverpool play this well very effectively.

This would still give us the three across the middle which we really need.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on October 18, 2021, 03:50:21 PM
			

			

				Can you imagine the outcry if we'd not bought a striker in?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: brian green on October 18, 2021, 03:56:04 PM
			

			

				Regarding a poll, an African Gray would sort out our scoring problems.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: nick harper on October 18, 2021, 04:20:09 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Drummond on October 18, 2021, 03:50:21 PM
Can you imagine the outcry if we'd not bought a striker in?

We absolutely had to bring a striker in but we’ve bought the finished article with little resale value. Not the model I thought we were applying to signings. I think he’s a top player but he quite rightly expects to be the number 1 striker at his stage in his career.

It would have made more sense to buy an up and coming striker to put pressure on Watkins, not someone play to with him or force him out wide.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Footy-Vill on October 18, 2021, 04:28:29 PM
			

			

				Ben Breteton Diaz of Blackburn would be a great signing if wanted to play alongside Watkins 

I remember him before he went all South American on the world and gave our a defence a torrid time in championship just as Brereton.  

These sorts of players are the ones that should be identified and bought.
I would have preferred Ings if Grealish stayed as Grealish would be feeding him all night long.

Watkins nor Ings are the greatest hold up players but perhaps they are the best pressing players in the league.
Dean Smith himself said Watkins is the best pressing striker in the league.
Ings for me isn't too far behind on that front 

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: KevinGage on October 18, 2021, 04:47:33 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on October 18, 2021, 12:44:37 PM
I didn't see the Ings signing as a mistake, we needed top cover for Ollie and only had Davis as cover. 

Ings cost over £30 million and came in on a salary over £120k per week.  He wasn't coming in as cover. 

After the season Watkins had last year it always struck me as an odd one.  His first season in the top flight and he makes the England squad plus would have been on for 20 goals were it not for VAR fuckeries. 

A striker closer to Benteke's profile in 2012 would have suited our needs more; young, not cheap - but not at the stage of his career where he expects to start every game. But if he makes the place his own then fair play. 

As it is, we're trying to shoehorn Watkins and Ings into the starting line up and there is little sign of it working thus far. 

Accepting that Dean Smith isn't totally responsible for transfers (though he does by some reports have more sway than he did under Suso) I wonder if Lange said towards the end of the Grealish saga that he could get Ings and Smith OK'd it.  Rather than pushed for it.  There is a difference. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on October 18, 2021, 04:49:40 PM
			

			

				I'm pleased we've got Ings, but I do still have a sneaking suspicion that his signing was expedited as a sop to the fans to soften the Greasy blow.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on October 18, 2021, 05:00:33 PM
			

			

				Ings is a great signing and he'll score goals. I'm concerned about the 3-5-2 as well, if that's the long-term plan as I don't think it suits us when everyone is fit. However, it does work at times, as we've shown.

Most of us prefer the 4-3-3 I think, and set up with alternatives such as....

                                         Martinez

Cash/Axel/Young     Konsa/Axel      Mings/Hause      Targett/Young

    Ramsey/Sanson     Luiz/Nakamba       McGinn/Chukwuemeka

Buendia/Traore/JPB          Ings/Watkins/Archer/Davies          Bailey/Watkins/AEG
                  
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on October 18, 2021, 05:01:11 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on October 18, 2021, 04:49:40 PM
I'm pleased we've got Ings, but I do still have a sneaking suspicion that his signing was expedited as a sop to the fans to soften the Greasy blow.

Of course. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on October 18, 2021, 05:02:55 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Drummond on October 18, 2021, 05:01:11 PM
Quote from: Risso on October 18, 2021, 04:49:40 PM
I'm pleased we've got Ings, but I do still have a sneaking suspicion that his signing was expedited as a sop to the fans to soften the Greasy blow.

Of course. 

I was, and remain, glad we signed him, but that's a terrible way to run a club if true.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on October 18, 2021, 05:08:00 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on October 18, 2021, 05:02:55 PM
Quote from: Drummond on October 18, 2021, 05:01:11 PM
Quote from: Risso on October 18, 2021, 04:49:40 PM
I'm pleased we've got Ings, but I do still have a sneaking suspicion that his signing was expedited as a sop to the fans to soften the Greasy blow.

Of course. 

I was, and remain, glad we signed him, but that's a terrible way to run a club if true.

And the fans would have complained even more had he not been. This place would have been in meltdown.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on October 18, 2021, 05:10:13 PM
			

			

				On Saturday Aston Villa threw away a two-goal lead and lost a Premier League home game for only the second time, also doing so against Manchester United in November 2012 (also 3-2).
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on October 18, 2021, 05:11:14 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Drummond on October 18, 2021, 05:08:00 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on October 18, 2021, 05:02:55 PM
Quote from: Drummond on October 18, 2021, 05:01:11 PM
Quote from: Risso on October 18, 2021, 04:49:40 PM
I'm pleased we've got Ings, but I do still have a sneaking suspicion that his signing was expedited as a sop to the fans to soften the Greasy blow.

Of course. 

I was, and remain, glad we signed him, but that's a terrible way to run a club if true.

And the fans would have complained even more had he not been. This place would have been in meltdown.

As if that's a reason to do or not do something.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on October 18, 2021, 05:14:36 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on October 18, 2021, 05:11:14 PM
Quote from: Drummond on October 18, 2021, 05:08:00 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on October 18, 2021, 05:02:55 PM
Quote from: Drummond on October 18, 2021, 05:01:11 PM
Quote from: Risso on October 18, 2021, 04:49:40 PM
I'm pleased we've got Ings, but I do still have a sneaking suspicion that his signing was expedited as a sop to the fans to soften the Greasy blow.

Of course. 

I was, and remain, glad we signed him, but that's a terrible way to run a club if true.

And the fans would have complained even more had he not been. This place would have been in meltdown.

As if that's a reason to do or not do something.

Oh no, I'm not suggesting it is. However, I can fully understand why they'd want to hurry it through. Now if they'd only decided to sign him to appease the fans, that would be fucking atrocious at that money. As it is, I'm chuffed we got him, as he's a good goalscorer with a proven track record. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on October 18, 2021, 05:17:34 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Drummond on October 18, 2021, 05:14:36 PM

Oh no, I'm not suggesting it is. However, I can fully understand why they'd want to hurry it through. Now if they'd only decided to sign him to appease the fans, that would be fucking atrocious at that money. As it is, I'm chuffed we got him, as he's a good goalscorer with a proven track record. 

It's not actually that proven in the Premier League. One excellent season, and two OK ones, with a lot of time injured.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on October 18, 2021, 05:24:34 PM
			

			

				2009–2011   AFC Bournemouth   27   (7)
2010                Dorchester Town (loan)   9   (4)
2011–2015   Burnley                   122   (38)
2015–2019   Liverpool                    14   (3)
2018–2019   Southampton (loan)   24   (7)
2019–2021   Southampton           67   (34)
2021–            Aston Villa            8   (3)

1 in 3 at Burnley, 1 in 4.66 at Liverpool, 1 in 2 at Southampton and so far 1 in 2.66 for us.

I've no idea nor inclination to look at how many were sub appearances but that's a pretty good record.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ian. on October 18, 2021, 05:34:33 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on October 18, 2021, 05:11:14 PM
Quote from: Drummond on October 18, 2021, 05:08:00 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on October 18, 2021, 05:02:55 PM
Quote from: Drummond on October 18, 2021, 05:01:11 PM
Quote from: Risso on October 18, 2021, 04:49:40 PM
I'm pleased we've got Ings, but I do still have a sneaking suspicion that his signing was expedited as a sop to the fans to soften the Greasy blow.

Of course. 

I was, and remain, glad we signed him, but that's a terrible way to run a club if true.

And the fans would have complained even more had he not been. This place would have been in meltdown.

As if that's a reason to do or not do something.

Well going to Southampton to get Ward Prowse and coming back with Ings is a better outcome than going to Millwall to pick up Sherringham but coming back with Cascarino. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on October 18, 2021, 05:37:38 PM
			

			

				Very true.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Smithy on October 18, 2021, 05:39:50 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on October 18, 2021, 05:17:34 PM
Quote from: Drummond on October 18, 2021, 05:14:36 PM

Oh no, I'm not suggesting it is. However, I can fully understand why they'd want to hurry it through. Now if they'd only decided to sign him to appease the fans, that would be fucking atrocious at that money. As it is, I'm chuffed we got him, as he's a good goalscorer with a proven track record. 

It's not actually that proven in the Premier League. One excellent season, and two OK ones, with a lot of time injured.

Without offering Champions League football, I think signing Danny Ings was about as close we could get to "guaranteed goals" as it's possible to be, without buying someone who is into their thirties.

I was very pleasantly surprised we could get someone of his profile and ability - given Grealish was going - and I'm still really pleased we've got him.  I remain confident that when we've got a fully fit attacking line-up (with fully fit options from the bench), he will score a good number of goals for us.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Smithy on October 18, 2021, 05:46:24 PM
			

			

				I just checked - Danny Ings premier league record to date is 58 goals in 148 appearances. Only 3 of those while playing in a team you could call champions league challengers.  If he stays fit for the next three years it's not inconceivable he'll become part of the 100 club at premier league level - which is pretty good considering he spent three prime years at Liverpool and made 14 appearances.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ian. on October 18, 2021, 05:48:49 PM
			

			

				I'm hoping once we have Bailey fit and Buendia playing regular Ings will be scoring for fun. Add a fit Traore and in form Watkins, ditch the experiment of three at the back and we'll be just fine.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on October 18, 2021, 05:53:25 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Ian. on October 18, 2021, 05:48:49 PM
I'm hoping once we have Bailey fit and Buendia playing regular Ings will be scoring for fun. Add a fit Traore and in form Watkins, ditch the experiment of three at the back and we'll be just fine.

Quite. 

Anyway, I'm still fucked off about Saturday. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ian. on October 18, 2021, 05:58:17 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Drummond on October 18, 2021, 05:53:25 PM
Quote from: Ian. on October 18, 2021, 05:48:49 PM
I'm hoping once we have Bailey fit and Buendia playing regular Ings will be scoring for fun. Add a fit Traore and in form Watkins, ditch the experiment of three at the back and we'll be just fine.

Quite. 

Anyway, I'm still fucked off about Saturday. 

Aint that true. All I've had from my Wolves supporting brother is all that mind the gap bollocks and a constant drip feed of other memes.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Smithy on October 18, 2021, 06:06:22 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Drummond on October 18, 2021, 05:53:25 PM
Quote from: Ian. on October 18, 2021, 05:48:49 PM
I'm hoping once we have Bailey fit and Buendia playing regular Ings will be scoring for fun. Add a fit Traore and in form Watkins, ditch the experiment of three at the back and we'll be just fine.

Quite. 

Anyway, I'm still fucked off about Saturday. 

It's the sort of defeat that lingers, unfortunately.  I'm generally not one to dwell on defeats, but this has the taste of one I'll still be sore about come the end of the season, wondering where that extra three points might have got us.  
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Allan C on October 18, 2021, 08:23:29 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Smithy on October 18, 2021, 12:43:51 PM
Quote from: nick harper on October 18, 2021, 12:22:00 PM
I think we messed up signing Ings. Not that he’s not a top striker and that we needed to beef up the squad given we were fortunate Watkins got through the whole of last season, but he’s 29, at the peak of his career and is not going to want to rotate and sit on the bench.

It wasn’t a smart signing in the context of the shape Smith has always played.

I couldn't disagree more.  These pages were full of people complaining about our lack of depth up front last season, with really only Watkins as a tried and tested option for a central striker.  The fact that we're struggling to find a formation that lets us play both of our England forwards isn't an indication that signing him was a mistake, it's an indication we now have a squad with more good players than we've previously had, and we're still trying to find a way to use them all at the same time.

Centre-forward was a key squad weakness last season, and we strengthened that position about as well as we possibly could, given we don't offer European football.  Will Ings have a significant sell-on value? Almost certainly not, but that doesn't automatically make his signing a mistake.  At his current scoring rate he'll end up with 12-15 goals for the season - which is pretty good, and I think we'd all agree he's not played that well yet, either.

I think when Bailey is fit, and takes a wide-forward position, it'll likely be either Watkins OR Ings playing centrally, maybe Ollie wide left of the three.

It's also entirely possible that Ollie and Ings will just 'click' at some point.  But whatever happens, I don't view Ings as a bad signing at all.
Totally agree with this. For those banging on about Ings and Watkins not working I say let’s see how it goes when Watkins is back on form. At the moment he is clearly way out of form. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on October 18, 2021, 09:25:24 PM
			

			

				If Watkins is out of form (I haven't seen us much recently) then he ought to be dropped now that we have alternatives.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: London Villan on October 18, 2021, 09:31:43 PM
			

			

				Is he out of form or out of position?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: brontebilly on October 18, 2021, 10:30:54 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: London Villan on October 18, 2021, 09:31:43 PM
Is he out of form or out of position?

Both...his touch was average enough anyway but he couldn't trap a bag of sand currently. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on October 19, 2021, 11:25:37 AM
			

			

				Have no issue with Ings coming in.

Start of the season with Ollie injured up to last 10 minutes v Brentford and Davis also out our only option would've been Wesley if we hadn't signed anyone and he's obviously been deemed not up to prem standard after his return hence his loan.

So very possible we wouldn't have beaten Newcastle and would've been proper Villa in crisis Mail special at the start of September.

I think this is a really good test for Dean now. When they're all fit eventually, how he juggles the options as the season goes on.

If he wants ambitions of managing at very top level he's going to have to solve it as managers like Klopp either create secure formations to get in the attacking players to make it effective or someone like Tuchel dosen't lose a wink of sleep dropping Werner to the bench for a spell of games.

Think at some point Dean will have to do that but we're not at that stage yet.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on October 19, 2021, 11:27:01 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on October 18, 2021, 09:25:24 PM
If Watkins is out of form (I haven't seen us much recently) then he ought to be dropped now that we have alternatives.

I think he'll start at Arsenal....but in a wide position. Makes sense if we're going 4-3-3 which I suspect we will.

Keep 3 central and maybe try Buendia out wide right as doubt we'll risk Bailey from the start.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Richard on October 19, 2021, 12:51:50 PM
			

			

				I agree SoccerHQ as the Arsenal right back looks dodgy, I'd play him wide left. Palace were unlucky last night, they only didnt win because they sat too far back for the last 15. If they had gone for it they could have easily won 3 1 as the Arse had gone really ragged.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on October 19, 2021, 04:02:07 PM
			

			

				I’ve got no problems with Ings and never had any
Just the fact that we have top quality players in and around the squad now shows how much we have progressed

We have always had quite a number of players who could be described as weak links
Probably because we were moving up through the championship league and players just generally become not quite good enough anymore 
Taylor Elmo Lansbury Hutton Hourahine Hogan some good servants but would be weak links now and were at times last season
We’ve hardly got any now where are you’re thinking oh shit we’re going to struggle in that dept today

I’m not a big fan of Hause so he would probably come into that category of needing to upgrade as I don’t think he will ever be a true top 6/8 performer, Fully accepting he has had Some decent games but has not got good footballing ability required
Mings is all over the place, He needs to improve or he will be in that category soon as well
El Gahzi blows hot and cold and is now not a first team starter or even a first sub
Steer not much confidence in him at second choice sub 

That’s about it for me, Just goes to show how far we have come when I’m picking out decent players as our weaker links nowadays
All subjective of course and people will disagree,
 but I see it as a positive that’s why having a strong squad and adding players of the quality of Bailey Sansom Ings with Ramsey and other young players coming through all bodes well for the future


			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: supertom on October 19, 2021, 04:09:23 PM
			

			

				The 3-5-2 isn't working for me. Perennially we've seen this when we've tended to go there. It has fits and starts, or occasionally benefits us against particular opposition, but other games we look stifled and too reliant on Cash and Targett). I recall in Lamberts time he went to a back three, which got us a few results (including against Liverpool iirc) but then we had that three game run of annihilations (11 goals against??). 
Ditto, Deano in his first season back tried it a few games. It looked okay here and there, but then he probably persisted with it a few games too many as a long term option.

Basically, it boils down to a change in your approach after you've signed players to play in a different way altogether. The three at the back hasn't particularly benefitted us defensively on the whole. There's been too many games we've huffed and puffed going forward too. 
Douglas has flirted with potentially being a playmaker, but flirting's all he's done. Ramsey has done well largely but is a kid. Beundia doesn't look entirely right in the 8 role.

I appreciated if we want two up top, a 4-2-2-2 might leave us light in midfield, but if we're gonna play five, and end up losing the midfield anyway, because we then lack options in wide up front, then I'd rather have McGinn plus one anchoring, with two wide players ahead. Personally, I think we need to look at one through the middle up top though. Ings and Watkins in a two isn't working. So you either drop one, of play Watkins on the left as an outside in (which he's done before). 

We've had too many good attacking players on the bench to carry on a formation that's been indifferent and it's pulling us away from the kind of way Deano has built his squad up to play (as the primary method). I think 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 is the way to go. I don't think it's coming off for Doug at the moment (and granted the last game, jet lag was a big factor). We can't rely on Ramsey just yet. I'd like Marvellous to sit and do the donkey work and give McGinn more license forward. 

Most importantly, composure. We need to seriously work on our composure on the ball. We get the ball and we're straight into 100mph, and barely string two passes together rushing it forward. We need someone who can slow a game and dictate things a bit. Maybe in pockets of space between defense and attack, that could be Beundia. As an 8, probably not. Douglas is getting lackadaisical for me. 

I'd be looking to get AEG and Traore more involved again. A little mercurial, until Bailey is fit and ready again. Bailey looks great. AEG and Traore scored 17 between them last season and ultimately, we're not creating enough clear cut chances. 

Finally...Mings needs dropping on current form. Hause I think deserves a spell in the side alongside Konsa. I don't particularly think it'll weaken us anymore defensively, if anything a back three can become tactically confusing because of that third man, and Mings loses focus too often. He needs a spell out to reevaluate and work on his game and his focus. Axel has struggled a little in the three too. Maybe given he's having to take the central role.

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Russ aka Big Nose on October 19, 2021, 09:46:53 PM
			

			

				For me the jury is still out in terms of whether it makes sense to play three at the back and also whether two strikers is the best way to accommodate the better quality players we now have.

But two things I'm certain about:
1. We  need to be able to be at least competent playing more than one formation and that hasn't been the case for years (so a positive for the manager and his coaches)
2. Dean Smith has easily enough credit in the bank (for me) for him to explore making one or both options work.

One other thing, get the right defensive CM and we could successfully exploit 4-1-3-2. That would still allow the fullbacks (especially Cash) to get forward as none of our attacking wide players are out and out wingers - other than perhaps AEG and he is now a back-up option for me.

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Steve67 on October 19, 2021, 09:50:56 PM
			

			

				We have to pay three at the back in order to keep five in midfield. This is because Dean Smith yet again failed to find a defensive central midfielder. If we had somebody with more physicality in the middle of the park we could even risk playing 442 and then play Bailey and Traore in the same side. McGinn and the meathead as the two. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on October 19, 2021, 10:02:28 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Steve67 on October 19, 2021, 09:50:56 PM
We have to pay three at the back in order to keep five in midfield. This is because Dean Smith yet again failed to find a defensive central midfielder. If we had somebody with more physicality in the middle of the park we could even risk playing 442 and then play Bailey and Traore in the same side. McGinn and the meathead as the two. 

He honestly didn't.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ozzjim on October 20, 2021, 06:29:04 AM
			

			

				In fairness though the 4-3-3 works better with McGinn and Luiz able to get on the ball and get forward, so a top drawer holding mid would have been a very useful addition. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on October 20, 2021, 08:40:14 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: ozzjim on October 20, 2021, 06:29:04 AM
In fairness though the 4-3-3 works better with McGinn and Luiz able to get on the ball and get forward, so a top drawer holding mid would have been a very useful addition. 

It would.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Steve67 on October 20, 2021, 09:19:47 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on October 19, 2021, 10:02:28 PM
Quote from: Steve67 on October 19, 2021, 09:50:56 PM
We have to pay three at the back in order to keep five in midfield. This is because Dean Smith yet again failed to find a defensive central midfielder. If we had somebody with more physicality in the middle of the park we could even risk playing 442 and then play Bailey and Traore in the same side. McGinn and the meathead as the two. 

He honestly didn't.

Who? Whoever he is must be injured because we are still conceding too many shots against. Our football can be excellent but we are always susceptible to physical midfielders.  McGinn, Luiz, Nakamba can’t defend.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: LeeB on October 20, 2021, 09:21:35 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Steve67 on October 20, 2021, 09:19:47 AM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on October 19, 2021, 10:02:28 PM
Quote from: Steve67 on October 19, 2021, 09:50:56 PM
We have to pay three at the back in order to keep five in midfield. This is because Dean Smith yet again failed to find a defensive central midfielder. If we had somebody with more physicality in the middle of the park we could even risk playing 442 and then play Bailey and Traore in the same side. McGinn and the meathead as the two. 

He honestly didn't.

Who? Whoever he is must be injured because we are still conceding too many shots against. Our football can be excellent but we are always susceptible to physical midfielders.  McGinn, Luiz, Nakamba can’t defend.

No, the point is Dean Smith doesn't find or sign our players.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Steve67 on October 20, 2021, 09:24:05 AM
			

			

				Oh please. He has a hand in it all though doesn’t he? It’s such a myth that Dean has nothing to do with it.  
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: LeeB on October 20, 2021, 09:27:02 AM
			

			

				Nobody said he has nothing to do with it, but it's not his job. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on October 20, 2021, 09:30:58 AM
			

			

				But he does decide the type of player he needs.
So maybe he thinks he doesn’t need a DM.
If it was a priority I am pretty sure we would have one.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on October 20, 2021, 09:49:07 AM
			

			

				So Smith didn't recommend the signing of Konsa and Watkins then, two players who played for him at Brentford. Hmmm, OK then.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: pauliewalnuts on October 20, 2021, 10:24:10 AM
			

			

				I can't be arsed to look for an old thread about either Downing or MON but I thought there's vague relevance to DS just to show how different things were, not so long ago.

Stewart Downing in the Meaning Evil, talking about MON (and confirming that which a lot of us thought at the time).

Quote
"There were no tactics," Downing added. "You know some managers say right-back and so on. He'd just list the players, Friedel, Cuellar, Youngy... Then we'd look at each other like where are you playing?

"He's only rule was if either me or Youngy were having a quiet game then he'd tell us to switch, me, Agbonlahor and Young, he'd always switch us three around.

"We had days off and I was literally living in Middlesbrough playing for Villa because I'd have two/three days off a week. Honestly, he was unbelievable. He was like a Brian Clough."

Prior to O'Neill's resignation, Downing and the Villa squad spent pre-season in Dublin, which included seven nights out with Richard Dunne and James Collins the life and soul of the group after their recent arrivals.

As Downing continued: "Even in pre-season in Ireland... I like a night out and a few do. He'd signed Richard Dunne at this point.

"We'd train and then (O'Neill) said, I don't give a f*** what happens, make sure you're all fit on August 14. If you're injured don't play, if you're not feeling right don't play. You can have a night out.

"We were there for 10 nights in Dublin and I think we were out for seven. We were out till late with Dunney all around Dublin, James Collins. Honestly, I was thinking there's no way we're finishing in the top six, we've been on the p*** for seven days. Then we'd get back for pre-season, you've had your fun and a laugh it's time to work.

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on October 20, 2021, 10:43:30 AM
			

			

				That one season Dunne and Collins were the best central defensive partnership we’ve had in years, hardly conceded anything at all.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: LeeB on October 20, 2021, 11:01:24 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on October 20, 2021, 10:43:30 AM
That one season Dunne and Collins were the best central defensive partnership we’ve had in years, hardly conceded anything at all.

Yeah, because they never moved from the edge of our box, meaning poor old Stan had to cover more of the pitch and we spent most of the time against anyone half decent without the ball.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Steve67 on October 20, 2021, 11:03:40 AM
			

			

				I’ll take 6th three years in a row. 👍
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: LeeB on October 20, 2021, 11:04:17 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Steve67 on October 20, 2021, 11:03:40 AM
I’ll take 6th three years in a row. 👍

Would you take the 10 years that followed it?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: TheMalandro on October 20, 2021, 11:31:48 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: LeeB on October 20, 2021, 11:04:17 AM
Quote from: Steve67 on October 20, 2021, 11:03:40 AM
I’ll take 6th three years in a row. 👍

Would you take the 10 years that followed it?

If the answer is yes, I imagine he likes hot wax on his balls too.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on October 20, 2021, 11:35:01 AM
			

			

				Isn't he talking about summer 2010? As IIRC Dunne and Collins signed last day in 2009 season so no time for Dublin jolly that season given they were playing for countries in the international breaks.

Pretty sure when we started 2010 season people were alarmed how out of shape Dunne was and then 6-0 Newcastle happened and all hell brook loose.

Yes O'Neill was very old school which is what the likes of John Terry picked up on when he said our energy would dip after 60 minutes which is usually if you're only training 2-3 days a week.

Probably shows why he's done little since he left us with many teams doing double sessions at all ends of the table.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Steve67 on October 20, 2021, 11:36:06 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: TheMalandro on October 20, 2021, 11:31:48 AM
Quote from: LeeB on October 20, 2021, 11:04:17 AM
Quote from: Steve67 on October 20, 2021, 11:03:40 AM
I’ll take 6th three years in a row. 👍

Would you take the 10 years that followed it?

If the answer is yes, I imagine he likes hot wax on his balls too.

I hope we are in better hands now. Crazy ten years, hopefully never to be repeated. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: LeeB on October 20, 2021, 11:59:55 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Steve67 on October 20, 2021, 11:36:06 AM
Quote from: TheMalandro on October 20, 2021, 11:31:48 AM
Quote from: LeeB on October 20, 2021, 11:04:17 AM
Quote from: Steve67 on October 20, 2021, 11:03:40 AM
I’ll take 6th three years in a row. 👍

Would you take the 10 years that followed it?

If the answer is yes, I imagine he likes hot wax on his balls too.

I hope we are in better hands now. Crazy ten years, hopefully never to be repeated. 

I look at the thing with the benefit of hindsight and would say 3 6th places, is that all? Given what we had to suffer for it after, and what was spent.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: West Derby Villan on October 20, 2021, 12:17:19 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Russ aka Big Nose on October 19, 2021, 09:46:53 PM
For me the jury is still out in terms of whether it makes sense to play three at the back and also whether two strikers is the best way to accommodate the better quality players we now have.

But two things I'm certain about:
1. We  need to be able to be at least competent playing more than one formation and that hasn't been the case for years (so a positive for the manager and his coaches)
2. Dean Smith has easily enough credit in the bank (for me) for him to explore making one or both options work.

One other thing, get the right defensive CM and we could successfully exploit 4-1-3-2. That would still allow the fullbacks (especially Cash) to get forward as none of our attacking wide players are out and out wingers - other than perhaps AEG and he is now a back-up option for me.

Russ, I certainly agree with this
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ian. on October 20, 2021, 12:21:53 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: LeeB on October 20, 2021, 11:04:17 AM
Quote from: Steve67 on October 20, 2021, 11:03:40 AM
I’ll take 6th three years in a row. 👍

Would you take the 10 years that followed it?

That's the thing, it was not built to sustain at all and it would have all fallen apart whether he flounced off or not.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: WarszaVillan on October 20, 2021, 06:01:07 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Ian. on October 20, 2021, 12:21:53 PM
Quote from: LeeB on October 20, 2021, 11:04:17 AM
Quote from: Steve67 on October 20, 2021, 11:03:40 AM
I’ll take 6th three years in a row. 👍

Would you take the 10 years that followed it?

That's the thing, it was not built to sustain at all and it would have all fallen apart whether he flounced off or not.

The squad was more than good enough to build on, maybe after a season or so of mediocrity.  But Learner had lost interest.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on October 20, 2021, 06:23:18 PM
			

			

				And money.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ian. on October 20, 2021, 06:42:06 PM
			

			

				I seem to remember a large portion of that squad couldn’t give a toss either, instead starting fighting with the management and then decided they didn’t like Houlier, all on ridiculous contracts and no other club wanted them.

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on October 20, 2021, 10:42:34 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: WarszaVillan on October 20, 2021, 06:01:07 PM
Quote from: Ian. on October 20, 2021, 12:21:53 PM
Quote from: LeeB on October 20, 2021, 11:04:17 AM
Quote from: Steve67 on October 20, 2021, 11:03:40 AM
I’ll take 6th three years in a row. 👍

Would you take the 10 years that followed it?

That's the thing, it was not built to sustain at all and it would have all fallen apart whether he flounced off or not.

The squad was more than good enough to build on, maybe after a season or so of mediocrity.  But Learner had lost interest.

A lot of them were in their 30s and on big money, that was a big part of the problem over the next 4-5 years, we had no room in the wage bill and couldn't generate funds by selling fringe players. We made it worse by adding shit like Ireland and N'Zogbia and funded it by letting our better players go without much of a fight.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on October 20, 2021, 11:33:10 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Steve67 on October 20, 2021, 09:24:05 AM
Oh please. He has a hand in it all though doesn’t he? It’s such a myth that Dean has nothing to do with it.  

The director of football and the recruitment department are a myth?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on October 20, 2021, 11:36:38 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on October 20, 2021, 09:49:07 AM
So Smith didn't recommend the signing of Konsa and Watkins then, two players who played for him at Brentford. Hmmm, OK then.

If I recommend some ex-colleagues to my new employer, that doesn't make me the director of HR.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: caster troy on October 21, 2021, 09:40:04 AM
			

			

				I'm reserving judgement on the tactics debate until we've seen a sustained period where most of our attacking players have been fit. Bailey, Traore, Buendia and even Philogene-Bidace have had injuries and/or international duty, so we haven't had many good options in the wing position. Maybe Traore could have played, but he's been horrific when he's come on a sub from what I've seen. I'm not sure Deano has much faith in El Ghazi these days either, so I can see why he's persisted with 3-5-2. You have to assume that once Bailey is fit he will start every game, so the options are either to switch to 433, drop Watkins/Ings in his place or (god forbid) keep 3-5-2 and play him at wing back instead of Targett. Hopefully he will make the right call, and be flexible based on the opposition.


			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Clampy on October 21, 2021, 10:43:54 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on October 20, 2021, 11:36:38 PM
Quote from: Risso on October 20, 2021, 09:49:07 AM
So Smith didn't recommend the signing of Konsa and Watkins then, two players who played for him at Brentford. Hmmm, OK then.

If I recommend some ex-colleagues to my new employer, that doesn't make me the director of HR.

It's hardly the same thing really. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Allan C on October 21, 2021, 10:48:32 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: ChicagoLion on October 20, 2021, 09:30:58 AM
But he does decide the type of player he needs.
So maybe he thinks he doesn’t need a DM.
If it was a priority I am pretty sure we would have one.
Not necessarily if they can’t get the ones they’re chasing. I’d rather they wait to get the right one then buy one who is substandard 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: kippaxvilla2 on October 21, 2021, 11:56:01 AM
			

			

				I think I read somewhere that no player is signed without his final say?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on October 21, 2021, 12:22:29 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Allan C on October 21, 2021, 10:48:32 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on October 20, 2021, 09:30:58 AM
But he does decide the type of player he needs.
So maybe he thinks he doesn’t need a DM.
If it was a priority I am pretty sure we would have one.
Not necessarily if they can’t get the ones they’re chasing. I’d rather they wait to get the right one then buy one who is substandard
Its over  2 years now without a proper DM.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Allan C on October 21, 2021, 12:33:47 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: ChicagoLion on October 21, 2021, 12:22:29 PM
Quote from: Allan C on October 21, 2021, 10:48:32 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on October 20, 2021, 09:30:58 AM
But he does decide the type of player he needs.
So maybe he thinks he doesn’t need a DM.
If it was a priority I am pretty sure we would have one.
Not necessarily if they can’t get the ones they’re chasing. I’d rather they wait to get the right one then buy one who is substandard
Its 2 years now without a proper DM.
Agreed, but I stand by my point, better get the right player then a “buy and hope” player who doesn’t really fit the bill. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Mister E on October 21, 2021, 12:52:35 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Allan C on October 21, 2021, 12:33:47 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on October 21, 2021, 12:22:29 PM
Quote from: Allan C on October 21, 2021, 10:48:32 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on October 20, 2021, 09:30:58 AM
But he does decide the type of player he needs.
So maybe he thinks he doesn’t need a DM.
If it was a priority I am pretty sure we would have one.
Not necessarily if they can’t get the ones they’re chasing. I’d rather they wait to get the right one then buy one who is substandard
Its 2 years now without a proper DM.
Agreed, but I stand by my point, better get the right player then a “buy and hope” player who doesn’t really fit the bill. 
I've said before that - based on what we've bought - DS seems happy to play 3 MF who can each do a bit of everything: tackle, dribble, shoot, intercept, etc. This obviates the need for a specialist DMF. Even Marv looks a little more all-round than when he joined us.
Having said that, if a 'special' specialist were to become available ....
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: London Villan on October 21, 2021, 01:36:59 PM
			

			

				Which on paper is fine - it's just accommodating Bailey, Watkins, Ings, Beundia and Traore in the three up front.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on October 21, 2021, 01:39:16 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Clampy on October 21, 2021, 10:43:54 AM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on October 20, 2021, 11:36:38 PM
Quote from: Risso on October 20, 2021, 09:49:07 AM
So Smith didn't recommend the signing of Konsa and Watkins then, two players who played for him at Brentford. Hmmm, OK then.

If I recommend some ex-colleagues to my new employer, that doesn't make me the director of HR.

It's hardly the same thing really. 

I'm all ears...
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on October 21, 2021, 01:55:51 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on October 21, 2021, 01:39:16 PM
Quote from: Clampy on October 21, 2021, 10:43:54 AM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on October 20, 2021, 11:36:38 PM
Quote from: Risso on October 20, 2021, 09:49:07 AM
So Smith didn't recommend the signing of Konsa and Watkins then, two players who played for him at Brentford. Hmmm, OK then.

If I recommend some ex-colleagues to my new employer, that doesn't make me the director of HR.

It's hardly the same thing really. 

I'm all ears...

Nah you've got more than just that about you. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: brontebilly on October 21, 2021, 08:39:24 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: ChicagoLion on October 21, 2021, 12:22:29 PM
Quote from: Allan C on October 21, 2021, 10:48:32 AM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on October 20, 2021, 09:30:58 AM
But he does decide the type of player he needs.
So maybe he thinks he doesn’t need a DM.
If it was a priority I am pretty sure we would have one.
Not necessarily if they can’t get the ones they’re chasing. I’d rather they wait to get the right one then buy one who is substandard
Its over  2 years now without a proper DM.

Well we bought Nakamba but he is very limited. Still think Luiz can be that genuine 6 for us. He needs to play in a 3 though. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: kippaxvilla2 on October 22, 2021, 08:24:35 PM
			

			

				Smith out.  The stubborn fecker.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: TheMalandro on October 22, 2021, 08:26:16 PM
			

			

				Starting the game tonight with that formation…

Time to go.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on October 22, 2021, 08:26:35 PM
			

			

				Smith out! 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on October 22, 2021, 08:27:25 PM
			

			

				For me it's not the team he started with, it's failing to tweak anything once you could see we were struggling first 10 minutes.

Seems we were just waiting to concede a goal.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ozzjim on October 22, 2021, 08:29:28 PM
			

			

				Honest to fucking God he isn't learning. The 3 in midfield worked because you had Ramsey pressing like a mother fucker from the first minute. Going to 2 plus Buendia just over runs you. Why the fuck are we still trying to make Ings and Watkins work. We are losing the midfield. Our back 3 are all better in a flat 4. We have no width. And the strikers look like they are strangers. Fucking shambolic. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: astonvilla82 on October 22, 2021, 08:35:05 PM
			

			

				Haven't a clue about formations but it's needs changing or else
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Villan82 on October 22, 2021, 08:38:58 PM
			

			

				I am getting on and I am sick of us missing opportunities. We have good owners but the manager is on thin ice- we seem to have gone two steps backwards. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: N'ZMAV on October 22, 2021, 08:48:43 PM
			

			

				The tide is turning against Smith.

Once this happens it only goes one way.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on October 22, 2021, 08:54:06 PM
			

			

				Disgrace he didn't have the bottle to change anything.

Going in 2-0 down is pretty lucky, should be 3 or 4 down.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: N'ZMAV on October 22, 2021, 08:56:46 PM
			

			

				Remi Smith tonight
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Hillbilly on October 22, 2021, 09:00:45 PM
			

			

				Gone by Christmas at this rate.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: villabear on October 22, 2021, 09:00:54 PM
			

			

				What were him and Shakespeare talking about together for so long.

Lucky to be only 2 down. Awful.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Demitri_C on October 22, 2021, 09:01:34 PM
			

			

				Dean bruce tonight. Pathetic
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: LukeJames on October 22, 2021, 09:06:09 PM
			

			

				Should have gone after last weeks embarrasment, looks like he's trying to go one better tonight. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: supertom on October 22, 2021, 09:07:09 PM
			

			

				He's lost the plot. 60 million spent on wide players. Two already at the club who scored 17 last season...and he keeps playing the 3-5-2, which makes us defensively weaker and absolutely hopeless going forward. The midfield can't find any space or spread the play and again, we have two front men, neither of whom is moving to link midfield and attack. But well, it worked against Utd, it must be effective. I'm sick of seeing this fucking formation. I've been sick of seeing it since it stopped being effective for John Gregory. No one has used it successfully since. Unless he's going to spend 100 million on players who can play the system, he needs to stop because he's shooting himself in the foot. We were heading down with it for a time in our first season back, until Deano switched the system to be more offensive, and we stayed up. We played some good stuff last season, playing predominantly 4-3-3. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Villan82 on October 22, 2021, 09:08:23 PM
			

			

				Look at the clubs who are ruthless and go after a top manager when they have to. When did we last do that? You could argue November 1994?

Not saying I want Dean Smith sacked but I think I have concluded he isn't going to be taking us into the top half any time soon (if ever). 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: danno on October 22, 2021, 09:17:46 PM
			

			

				Five minutes of the second half gone he needs to consider whether Tuanzebe is worth losing his job over.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: PaulWinch again on October 22, 2021, 09:22:13 PM
			

			

				I’m now genuinely worried he doesn’t understand tactics. He obviously stumbled across the 3 centre halves it worked for a couple of games, but he had no clue it wasn’t sustainable. Terrible stuff and the likes of Emi will leave if this continues.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ozzjim on October 22, 2021, 09:22:14 PM
			

			

				Firmly out now. He's had more money than most managers dream of, a good amount of time to plan for the loss of Joe, and succeeded to make us look like the team that came up minus our best player. The formation doesn't work.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Toronto Villa on October 22, 2021, 09:22:34 PM
			

			

				Done with him. Thanks for getting us up. But he is simply not getting us to the next level. Time to go. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on October 22, 2021, 09:31:56 PM
			

			

				It was so obvious that the system was not working, any one who witnessed the Wolves defeat knew that it wasn’t working and yet he played the same team with the same tactics. It does  not take a genius to work out the stupidity of going again.
Thanks for everything he has done but it’s over.

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: OzVilla on October 22, 2021, 09:36:48 PM
			

			

				We’ve flattered to deceive all season but the manner of the Wolves defeat immediately put Smith’s job under pressure. To then follow it up with this performance could be fatal.  If not a follow up performance against West Ham will be.

 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Three Spires Villa on October 22, 2021, 09:37:23 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: ChicagoLion on October 22, 2021, 09:31:56 PM
It was so obvious that the system was not working, any one who witnessed the Wolves defeat knew that it wasn’t working and yet he played the same team with the same tactics. It does  not take a genius to work out the stupidity of going again.
Thanks for everything he has done but it’s over.


This I think is correct, but not sure he will go before the season has finished?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: OzVilla on October 22, 2021, 09:39:38 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Three Spires Villa on October 22, 2021, 09:37:23 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on October 22, 2021, 09:31:56 PM
It was so obvious that the system was not working, any one who witnessed the Wolves defeat knew that it wasn’t working and yet he played the same team with the same tactics. It does  not take a genius to work out the stupidity of going again.
Thanks for everything he has done but it’s over.


This I think is correct, but not sure he will go before the season has finished?

I can see him gone before the month has finished at this rate. The owners will be hugely unimpressed by this shit show after last weeks and the week before.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: johny on October 22, 2021, 09:43:51 PM
			

			

				Time to go. To constantly keep trying to shoehorn a man ure player to play this turgid 3 at the back is unforgivable. We look shitter by the game.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Three Spires Villa on October 22, 2021, 09:45:14 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: OzVilla on October 22, 2021, 09:39:38 PM
Quote from: Three Spires Villa on October 22, 2021, 09:37:23 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on October 22, 2021, 09:31:56 PM
It was so obvious that the system was not working, any one who witnessed the Wolves defeat knew that it wasn’t working and yet he played the same team with the same tactics. It does  not take a genius to work out the stupidity of going again.
Thanks for everything he has done but it’s over.


This I think is correct, but not sure he will go before the season has finished?

I can see him gone before the month has finished at this rate. The owners will be hugely unimpressed by this shit show after last weeks and the week before.

I will be amazed if Dean is sacked in October 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: OzVilla on October 22, 2021, 09:47:40 PM
			

			

				I hope he’s not and gets that result but the ice is cracking.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Three Spires Villa on October 22, 2021, 09:51:59 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: OzVilla on October 22, 2021, 09:47:40 PM
I hope he’s not and gets that result but the ice is cracking.

To be honest I think he’s time is coming to an end, I think he’s done all he can. He’s been good and lucky in equal measure. I think he will go next year or the end of this season. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Mellin on October 22, 2021, 10:40:46 PM
			

			

				12/1
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Legion on October 22, 2021, 10:42:06 PM
			

			

				He's not exactly doing himself any favours at the moment.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: TonyD on October 22, 2021, 10:42:39 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Mellin on October 22, 2021, 10:40:46 PM
12/1
To getting the sack? By when?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on October 22, 2021, 10:44:35 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Mellin on October 22, 2021, 10:40:46 PM
12/1

Good bet really. We'll struggle to even get point v West Ham given the job they did on Everton last week and Southampton away feels the sort of match where a poor performance and defeat could really force the board to do something especially with two week break and then Palace and Brighton after.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on October 22, 2021, 10:45:23 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: supertom on October 22, 2021, 09:07:09 PM
He's lost the plot. 60 million spent on wide players. Two already at the club who scored 17 last season...and he keeps playing the 3-5-2,

To be fair, Traore and Bailey have been out injured. Buendia hasn't been available a lot either.

That's all I'm saying on that.

Tonight was garbage. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Mellin on October 22, 2021, 10:46:09 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: TonyD on October 22, 2021, 10:42:39 PM
Quote from: Mellin on October 22, 2021, 10:40:46 PM
12/1
To getting the sack? By when?

Next Prem manager.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: aj2k77 on October 22, 2021, 10:48:12 PM
			

			

				Where has he pulled this 3 at the back, fullbacks as your only width and 2 centre mids shite from? His arse? Really. really poor decisions from Smith. The set piece defending is back to being a monstrosity again aswell. So much for the set piece coach.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: oldhill_avfc on October 22, 2021, 10:51:28 PM
			

			

				Let’s hope that after tonight 

1. He knows when and when not to play 3-5-2
2.  He knows that Buendia is very limited
3. He has t play Watkins in the middle with Ings on the bench




			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: PaulWinch again on October 22, 2021, 10:51:44 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: aj2k77 on October 22, 2021, 10:48:12 PM
Where has he pulled this 3 at the back, fullbacks as your only width and 2 centre mids shite from? His arse? Really. really poor decisions from Smith. The set piece defending is back to being a monstrosity again aswell. So much for the set piece coach.

He did it against Manure which worked because they struggle to break teams down. That’s fine - it’s keeping that formation since that’s utterly baffling and completely wrong. It fundamentally doesn’t work for our squad. You’d hope the manager would fucking know that.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on October 22, 2021, 10:55:00 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: PaulWinch again on October 22, 2021, 10:51:44 PM
Quote from: aj2k77 on October 22, 2021, 10:48:12 PM
Where has he pulled this 3 at the back, fullbacks as your only width and 2 centre mids shite from? His arse? Really. really poor decisions from Smith. The set piece defending is back to being a monstrosity again aswell. So much for the set piece coach.

He did it against Manure which worked because they struggle to break teams down. That’s fine - it’s keeping that formation since that’s utterly baffling and completely wrong. It fundamentally doesn’t work for our squad. You’d hope the manager would fucking know that.

Was amazed in pre match thread we kept things unchanged.

3 in central midfield and Ollie and Buendia out wide would've had far more logic to it even if it wouldn't have guaranteed a result.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Mellin on October 22, 2021, 10:57:45 PM
			

			

				Pretty sure we've just turned Arsenal over pretty convincingly three times on the bounce by going after them. Let them play and they have a chance to build their brittle confidence and remember they have a bit of ability. 

Plan should've been go after them, score the first goal, watch the crowd turn and win 3-0. Smith should know this. He used to, which worries me most.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Big Ming on October 23, 2021, 07:06:15 AM
			

			

				The 'Master Tactician' strikes again.

That boy don't ever learn.

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Nev on October 23, 2021, 08:26:52 AM
			

			

				Where has the football gone? We resemble an alehouse side with no idea how to play, reliant on long throws and set pieces.
Smith appears to have abandoned all his principles and pursuing this policy will only end one way.
He has to go back to the things that have served him so well up to now or he's fucked.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Nunkin1965 on October 23, 2021, 08:33:11 AM
			

			

				Playing players out of position. 
Squeezing in talented players into unsuited systems.
Picking players on last seasons performances. 
This is only going one way unless he gets back to putting  us on the front foot.
Why change such a successful plan that's worked so well against Arsenal in the past?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ROBBO on October 23, 2021, 08:41:33 AM
			

			

				His game day tactits over the past three weeks has been a disaster, you can reasonably expect the odd game where a manager gets it wrong but with Dean three weeks in a row is a big worry.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Nunkin1965 on October 23, 2021, 08:44:41 AM
			

			

				And I'm getting sick of f*****g long throw ins like its some miracle of the modern game.

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: AV82EC on October 23, 2021, 08:45:30 AM
			

			

				It’s shit, like some sub Pulis performance art. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: nick harper on October 23, 2021, 08:57:39 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Nunkin1965 on October 23, 2021, 08:44:41 AM
And I'm getting sick of f*****g long throw ins like its some miracle of the modern game.


I agree. It’s symbolic of a bygone age. We’ll look back on this time and reflect on it being a reflection of the downward spiral Smith had us on.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: N'ZMAV on October 23, 2021, 09:00:51 AM
			

			

				that hoof down the line by Mings gets on my tits. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Vegas on October 23, 2021, 09:01:35 AM
			

			

				I’m still just in the camp of give him more time, but it’s definitely worrying.

In the last 100 minutes of football we’re 6-1 down to mid table sides with a full-ish strength squad.


			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: N'ZMAV on October 23, 2021, 09:03:01 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Vegas on October 23, 2021, 09:01:35 AM
I’m still just in the camp of give him more time, but it’s definitely worrying.

In the last 100 minutes of football we’re 6-1 down to mid table sides with a full-ish strength squad.


 same.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Beard82 on October 23, 2021, 09:08:05 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: N'ZMAV on October 23, 2021, 09:03:01 AM
Quote from: Vegas on October 23, 2021, 09:01:35 AM
I’m still just in the camp of give him more time, but it’s definitely worrying.

In the last 100 minutes of football we’re 6-1 down to mid table sides with a full-ish strength squad.


 same.
Yes this is where I am
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Nunkin1965 on October 23, 2021, 09:08:44 AM
			

			

				Don't get me wrong I'm a Dean Smith fan but where has the bright attacking spells in our play gone? 
We gave up the win from minute 1 yesterday with the system as predicted by absolutely everyone on here before the game that wasn't going to work.
.
Right or wrong he has his principles on how he likes his teams to play but for some reason he's ditched it in favour of a couple of towels for Matty Cash to dry the football with.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: AlwaysVilla on October 23, 2021, 09:32:47 AM
			

			

				I think the ill discipline that we are seeing is a worrying trait.  Players seem to be losing their heads with Mings and Watkins particularly cutting frustrated figures at the way we are playing. We are top of the league for yellow cards and I got the feeling watching those players 1st half running around, chipping at the opposition,  hacking the ball anywhere, was the players telling Smith...we aren't happy with this formation
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on October 23, 2021, 09:42:10 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: AlwaysVilla on October 23, 2021, 09:32:47 AM
I think the ill discipline that we are seeing is a worrying trait.  Players seem to be losing their heads with Mings and Watkins particularly cutting frustrated figures at the way we are playing. We are top of the league for yellow cards and I got the feeling watching those players 1st half running around, chipping at the opposition,  hacking the ball anywhere, was the players telling Smith...we aren't happy with this formation
the players do not look happy or together.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Demitri_C on October 23, 2021, 10:08:26 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: AlwaysVilla on October 23, 2021, 09:32:47 AM
I think the ill discipline that we are seeing is a worrying trait.  Players seem to be losing their heads with Mings and Watkins particularly cutting frustrated figures at the way we are playing. We are top of the league for yellow cards and I got the feeling watching those players 1st half running around, chipping at the opposition,  hacking the ball anywhere, was the players telling Smith...we aren't happy with this formation

Key point for me. The system is pissing them off you can see it. Yet smith persistents with. Smiths making ollie look terrible. Ings not used to his strengths. Buendia looking crap. Defensive horror show. I dont blame them for getting frustrated its the terrible formation
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on October 23, 2021, 10:13:49 AM
			

			

				Dean was a tactical genius a few weeks back after the MU result, but things can change quickly in football. I don’t think this is the time for change (or dummy throwing), but he’s not helping himself by sticking with something that clearly isn’t working. He needed to change things last night after 30 mins but didn’t. In fact he shouldn’t have started that game with the tactics and some of the players he did. If we approach the next few games in the same way he will be bringing pressure on himself.
As regards Villa’s next manager that’s for the future not now obviously, as we already have a manager who has got more right than wrong over the seasons he’s been at Villa.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Walmley_Villa on October 23, 2021, 10:27:43 AM
			

			

				The Utd result has covered over the fact Dean is getting outthought by the opposition in the last 3 games. One big mistake last night was starting Axel, he didn’t deserve the start after the Wolves game. Alarm bells rang for me post-match last week when Dean stated he though Jimenez would start hence Axel’s inclusion. If that was the case changes should have been made especially based on Axel’s performance. Last night showed vulnerability from corners again and we missed Hause in there. 
Dean should have switched formation mid first half when it was obvious we were getting battered. Norwich fans repeatedly have told us Buendia is no good in the middle. For me he should have taken Axel and Watkins off and brought on Ramsey and Leon. Watkins is struggling, highlighted by his early yellow. 
Massive game next weekend, West Ham are very effective and physical, bullied us at VP last year.

I really hope Dean turns it round but I don’t think the owners will have a lot of patience. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: TonyD on October 23, 2021, 10:36:40 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Abbeyfealeavfc on October 23, 2021, 10:13:49 AM
Dean was a tactical genius a few weeks back after the MU result, but things can change quickly in football. I don’t think this is the time for change (or dummy throwing), but he’s not helping himself by sticking with something that clearly isn’t working. He needed to change things last night after 30 mins but didn’t. In fact he shouldn’t have started that game with the tactics and some of the players he did. If we approach the next few games in the same way he will be bringing pressure on himself.
As regards Villa’s next manager that’s for the future not now obviously, as we already have a manager who has got more right than wrong over the seasons he’s been at Villa.
It was Jack that got more right than wrong.  Just look at the stats.  
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: N'ZMAV on October 23, 2021, 10:40:46 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Abbeyfealeavfc on October 23, 2021, 10:13:49 AM
Dean was a tactical genius a few weeks back after the MU result, but things can change quickly in football. I don’t think this is the time for change (or dummy throwing), but he’s not helping himself by sticking with something that clearly isn’t working. He needed to change things last night after 30 mins but didn’t. In fact he shouldn’t have started that game with the tactics and some of the players he did. If we approach the next few games in the same way he will be bringing pressure on himself.
As regards Villa’s next manager that’s for the future not now obviously, as we already have a manager who has got more right than wrong over the seasons he’s been at Villa.
 a tactical genius would have more than one plan. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Beard82 on October 23, 2021, 10:41:39 AM
			

			

				Does anyone know if any of this was true:
https://twitter.com/amc89avfc/status/1451842493197213696
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: dave.woodhall on October 23, 2021, 10:50:41 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Beard82 on October 23, 2021, 10:41:39 AM
Does anyone know if any of this was true:
https://twitter.com/amc89avfc/status/1451842493197213696

It's incredible how many people with a new blog/podcast just happen to see things and hear stories that the rest of us don't. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: N'ZMAV on October 23, 2021, 10:52:48 AM
			

			

				it needs a few players to kick off to be honest - the ship is beginning to sink and I don't want them all accepting it. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on October 23, 2021, 11:10:15 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: dave.woodhall on October 23, 2021, 10:50:41 AM
Quote from: Beard82 on October 23, 2021, 10:41:39 AM
Does anyone know if any of this was true:
https://twitter.com/amc89avfc/status/1451842493197213696 (https://twitter.com/amc89avfc/status/1451842493197213696)

It's incredible how many people with a new blog/podcast just happen to see things and hear stories that the rest of us don't. 

One of the replies to that is from somebody I trust completely and who was at the game, and she said it kicked off massively with Sanson and Smith. I've asked her if it's true, as if it is, it's deeply concerning. You wouldn't expect anybody to be happy after a performance like that, but there's a line that can't be crossed.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on October 23, 2021, 11:14:20 AM
			

			

				She's confirmed it is true, and others have also said they saw it. Sanson chucked a bottle at Smith and gave him the finger. Last we see of him ever then, I guess.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Villan82 on October 23, 2021, 11:15:34 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on October 23, 2021, 11:10:15 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on October 23, 2021, 10:50:41 AM
Quote from: Beard82 on October 23, 2021, 10:41:39 AM
Does anyone know if any of this was true:
https://twitter.com/amc89avfc/status/1451842493197213696 (https://twitter.com/amc89avfc/status/1451842493197213696)

It's incredible how many people with a new blog/podcast just happen to see things and hear stories that the rest of us don't. 

One of the replies to that is from somebody I trust completely and who was at the game, and she said it kicked off massively with Sanson and Smith. I've asked her if it's true, as if it is, it's deeply concerning. You wouldn't expect anybody to be happy after a performance like that, but there's a line that can't be crossed.

Of course it's true. From the moment Watkins got his stupid petulant booking you knew all was  not well in our camp.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: TonyD on October 23, 2021, 11:19:21 AM
			

			

				Buendia was not a happy bunny when he came off.  
Words were definitely aimed at the coaches. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on October 23, 2021, 11:22:10 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: TonyD on October 23, 2021, 11:19:21 AM
Buendia was not a happy bunny when he came off.  
Words were definitely aimed at the coaches. 

Yeah saw that, he refused a hand shake and chucked his training top away.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ian. on October 23, 2021, 11:24:57 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on October 23, 2021, 11:14:20 AM
She's confirmed it is true, and others have also said they saw it. Sanson chucked a bottle at Smith and gave him the finger. Last we see of him ever then, I guess.

If true I’m not sure our owners will want their investments involved in these sort of incidents and will get to the bottom of it. If a few fans have seen it I’m sure everyone within the club will know about it.

Football is a high passion game for the players, managers and owners. Not just the fans. Emotions run high and during bad times they obviously spill out in public.

We need to deal with it and start look like we enjoy playing football again because since Man Utd we haven’t looked quite right at all.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on October 23, 2021, 11:26:38 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Ian. on October 23, 2021, 11:24:57 AM
Quote from: Risso on October 23, 2021, 11:14:20 AM
She's confirmed it is true, and others have also said they saw it. Sanson chucked a bottle at Smith and gave him the finger. Last we see of him ever then, I guess.

If true I’m not sure our owners will want their investments involved in these sort of incidents and will get to the bottom of it. If a few fans have seen it I’m sure everyone within the club will know about it.

Football is a high passion game for the players, managers and owners. Not just the fans. Emotions run high and during bad times they obviously spill out in public.

We need to deal with it and start look like we enjoy playing football again because since Man Utd we haven’t looked quite right at all.

Of course passions run high, but normally these things happen in private in training. The last two players rumoured to have had a spat with Smith (Engels and Guilbert) were hardly seen again.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: OzVilla on October 23, 2021, 12:08:27 PM
			

			

				I don’t blame Sanson for being upset. He should have been given the 2nd half at least. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: brontebilly on October 23, 2021, 12:20:21 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: OzVilla on October 23, 2021, 12:08:27 PM
I don’t blame Sanson for being upset. He should have been given the 2nd half at least.

Said the same at half time. Think Smith decided very early on that he doesn't rate him. Ramsey has been poor lately so can understand why Sanson would be seething (as Hause has every right to be too) but if he has thrown a bottle at Smith then that's him done under Deano. Ramsey coming on and scoring pushes him further down the pecking order anyway. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ian. on October 23, 2021, 12:46:54 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on October 23, 2021, 11:26:38 AM
Quote from: Ian. on October 23, 2021, 11:24:57 AM
Quote from: Risso on October 23, 2021, 11:14:20 AM
She's confirmed it is true, and others have also said they saw it. Sanson chucked a bottle at Smith and gave him the finger. Last we see of him ever then, I guess.

If true I’m not sure our owners will want their investments involved in these sort of incidents and will get to the bottom of it. If a few fans have seen it I’m sure everyone within the club will know about it.

Football is a high passion game for the players, managers and owners. Not just the fans. Emotions run high and during bad times they obviously spill out in public.

We need to deal with it and start look like we enjoy playing football again because since Man Utd we haven’t looked quite right at all.

Of course passions run high, but normally these things happen in private in training. The last two players rumoured to have had a spat with Smith (Engels and Guilbert) were hardly seen again.

I agree, it needs to be dealt with and like I said our owners will not be happy that another of their assets are involved in a spat in the public eye. If this is the end of Sanson like the two you mentioned I’m sure questions will be seriously asked if Smith. On top of the last two performances in particular which to me have been a result of tactics and not personal.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: caster troy on October 23, 2021, 12:59:52 PM
			

			

				Something's definitely not right. Maybe the players staged an intervention over this 532 garbage and Smith stood his ground. Hence the 'told you so' attitude. I guess this is the first time Dean Smith has had to manage a large squad of internationals with competition for places, and it doesn't seem like he is coping very well.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ian. on October 23, 2021, 01:06:54 PM
			

			

				Yes that’s a very hard part of managing lots of players in the squad and keeping them happy. Has Smith got the bollocks to leave one of his top players out? It’s odd how he’s built a career of one up front and suddenly we’ve got Ings and we have to play two central strikers from KO in every match.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: caster troy on October 23, 2021, 01:12:50 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Ian. on October 23, 2021, 01:06:54 PM
Yes that’s a very hard part of managing lots of players in the squad and keeping them happy. Has Smith got the bollocks to leave one of his top players out? It’s odd how he’s built a career of one up front and suddenly we’ve got Ings and we have to play two central strikers from KO in every match.

Yep. And Tuanzebe/Hause seemingly having to play each week too. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: chrisw1 on October 23, 2021, 01:20:29 PM
			

			

				I'm not sure than Sanson has any right to be chucking bottles.  He's been injured for months and go injured again at Chelsea.  I want to see him integrated into the side but not getting the nod for 20 minutes in a disaster of a game coming back from another few weeks on the treatment table hardly seems a tipping point to me.

But it;s not a good look and if Smith has lost the dressing room then he needs to go.  I'm sure I said sticking with 3/5 at the back woud cost him his job.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: RamboandBruno on October 23, 2021, 01:47:09 PM
			

			

				Its interesting and maybe im reading too much into it, but whenever we lost last season, Smith seemed reasonably calm. Ive personally thought he’s loojed really rattled in interviews after the last two games. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on October 23, 2021, 01:59:12 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: RamboandBruno on October 23, 2021, 01:47:09 PM
Its interesting and maybe im reading too much into it, but whenever we lost last season, Smith seemed reasonably calm. Ive personally thought he’s loojed really rattled in interviews after the last two games.
His interview last night reminded me of Lambert.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: pauliewalnuts on October 23, 2021, 02:38:11 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: ChicagoLion on October 23, 2021, 01:59:12 PM
Quote from: RamboandBruno on October 23, 2021, 01:47:09 PM
Its interesting and maybe im reading too much into it, but whenever we lost last season, Smith seemed reasonably calm. Ive personally thought he’s loojed really rattled in interviews after the last two games.
His interview last night reminded me of Lambert.

My thoughts exactly. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: edgysatsuma89 on October 23, 2021, 02:39:36 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on October 23, 2021, 02:38:11 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on October 23, 2021, 01:59:12 PM
Quote from: RamboandBruno on October 23, 2021, 01:47:09 PM
Its interesting and maybe im reading too much into it, but whenever we lost last season, Smith seemed reasonably calm. Ive personally thought he’s loojed really rattled in interviews after the last two games.
His interview last night reminded me of Lambert.

My thoughts exactly.

It's got a feeling of the 'beginning of the end' to me.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Toronto Villa on October 23, 2021, 03:05:47 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on October 23, 2021, 02:38:11 PM
Quote from: ChicagoLion on October 23, 2021, 01:59:12 PM
Quote from: RamboandBruno on October 23, 2021, 01:47:09 PM
Its interesting and maybe im reading too much into it, but whenever we lost last season, Smith seemed reasonably calm. Ive personally thought he’s loojed really rattled in interviews after the last two games.
His interview last night reminded me of Lambert.

My thoughts exactly. 

That’s all of them. Garde, Sherwood, TSM2, Bruce and now Smith. They all talk utter bollocks as the walls close in around them. Nobody will ever outdo Lambert for that, but Dean Smith blaming players, talking nonsense about systems as he changes what he has been committed mid game shows he’s losing the plot. I just hope someone puts him out of his misery before we all fall out with him. He’s still one of us and I would hate to see us have a bitter taste when discussing him in the future.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Tayls_7 on October 23, 2021, 03:25:46 PM
			

			

				It's a shame but if he's lost a number of the players it's hard to come back from.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: chrisw1 on October 23, 2021, 03:28:04 PM
			

			

				Is it worth merging these Smith threads?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Flamingo Lane on October 23, 2021, 03:30:40 PM
			

			

				I'd say so.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: KevinGage on October 23, 2021, 03:46:57 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: N'ZMAV on October 22, 2021, 08:48:43 PM
The tide is turning against Smith.

Once this happens it only goes one way.

To my mind that's happened three times before (dodgy run between Christmas and Feb 2019, that run around Christmas in our first season back, and our pre lockdown form). 

And he's found the answers each time. 

I'm not even sure this constitutes a dodgy run. Hopefully more a blip. 

Baffled at the continuence of the 5-3-2 though. Hopefully last night is the end of it - barring exceptional circumstances. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: LeeB on October 23, 2021, 04:26:44 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: KevinGage on October 23, 2021, 03:46:57 PM
Quote from: N'ZMAV on October 22, 2021, 08:48:43 PM
The tide is turning against Smith.

Once this happens it only goes one way.

To my mind that's happened three times before (dodgy run between Christmas and Feb 2019, that run around Christmas in our first season back, and our pre lockdown form). 

And he's found the answers each time. 

I'm not even sure this constitutes a dodgy run. Hopefully more a blip. 

Baffled at the continuence of the 5-3-2 though. Hopefully last night is the end of it - barring exceptional circumstances. 

Well said, and in particular the last paragraph. Our back four are a proven solid base to build on, one of Ings or Watkins through the middle up top and the rest can be adjusted to suit.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ian. on October 23, 2021, 05:33:49 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: LeeB on October 23, 2021, 04:26:44 PM
Quote from: KevinGage on October 23, 2021, 03:46:57 PM
Quote from: N'ZMAV on October 22, 2021, 08:48:43 PM
The tide is turning against Smith.

Once this happens it only goes one way.

To my mind that's happened three times before (dodgy run between Christmas and Feb 2019, that run around Christmas in our first season back, and our pre lockdown form). 

And he's found the answers each time. 

I'm not even sure this constitutes a dodgy run. Hopefully more a blip. 

Baffled at the continuence of the 5-3-2 though. Hopefully last night is the end of it - barring exceptional circumstances. 

Well said, and in particular the last paragraph. Our back four are a proven solid base to build on, one of Ings or Watkins through the middle up top and the rest can be adjusted to suit.

Hope your right Kevin, on all counts, ending this experiment with 532 and it’s just a blip and not a long barren spell and finding the answer to making this talented young squad work again.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: BC Villain on October 23, 2021, 06:15:14 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: caster troy on October 23, 2021, 12:59:52 PM
Something's definitely not right. Maybe the players staged an intervention over this 532 garbage and Smith stood his ground. Hence the 'told you so' attitude. I guess this is the first time Dean Smith has had to manage a large squad of internationals with competition for places, and it doesn't seem like he is coping very well.

The rumours of Craig Shakespeare's role in getting Ranieri the sack at Leicester keep popping into my thoughts as well.  

Perhaps the loss of Terry and ROK, who by all accounts were very popular with the players, has had more of an affect than we think.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Neil Hawkes on October 23, 2021, 06:23:10 PM
			

			

				I am hoping for a clear the air rant fest at the next training session and to come back all guns blazing for the next game, with everyone having upped their game.
If not, as much I would not like to see it, it could be Dean's last game in charge.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on October 23, 2021, 06:24:54 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: BC Villain on October 23, 2021, 06:15:14 PM
Quote from: caster troy on October 23, 2021, 12:59:52 PM
Something's definitely not right. Maybe the players staged an intervention over this 532 garbage and Smith stood his ground. Hence the 'told you so' attitude. I guess this is the first time Dean Smith has had to manage a large squad of internationals with competition for places, and it doesn't seem like he is coping very well.

The rumours of Craig Shakespeare's role in getting Ranieri the sack at Leicester keep popping into my thoughts as well.  

Perhaps the loss of Terry and ROK, who by all accounts were very popular with the players, has had more of an affect than we think.

I’ve never heard that rumour before
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Nunkin1965 on October 23, 2021, 06:28:41 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: LeeB on October 23, 2021, 04:26:44 PM
Quote from: KevinGage on October 23, 2021, 03:46:57 PM
Quote from: N'ZMAV on October 22, 2021, 08:48:43 PM
The tide is turning against Smith.

Once this happens it only goes one way.

To my mind that's happened three times before (dodgy run between Christmas and Feb 2019, that run around Christmas in our first season back, and our pre lockdown form). 

And he's found the answers each time. 

I'm not even sure this constitutes a dodgy run. Hopefully more a blip. 

Baffled at the continuence of the 5-3-2 though. Hopefully last night is the end of it - barring exceptional circumstances. 

Well said, and in particular the last paragraph. Our back four are a proven solid base to build on, one of Ings or Watkins through the middle up top and the rest can be adjusted to suit.

Yes Ings or Watkins upfront.
Don't care which one but at the mo Ollie is in the team for what he did last season. Not this.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: BC Villain on October 23, 2021, 06:31:24 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: john e on October 23, 2021, 06:24:54 PM
Quote from: BC Villain on October 23, 2021, 06:15:14 PM
Quote from: caster troy on October 23, 2021, 12:59:52 PM
Something's definitely not right. Maybe the players staged an intervention over this 532 garbage and Smith stood his ground. Hence the 'told you so' attitude. I guess this is the first time Dean Smith has had to manage a large squad of internationals with competition for places, and it doesn't seem like he is coping very well.

The rumours of Craig Shakespeare's role in getting Ranieri the sack at Leicester keep popping into my thoughts as well.  

Perhaps the loss of Terry and ROK, who by all accounts were very popular with the players, has had more of an affect than we think.

I’ve never heard that rumour before

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/shakespeare-says-conscience-clear-after-ranieri-comments-1.3045503
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Demitri_C on October 23, 2021, 07:27:13 PM
			

			

				(https://i.ibb.co/NN61S1V/20211023-192531.jpg) (https://ibb.co/NN61S1V)

Hopefully its twitter bollocks but if true this is taking us back to the dark days of relegation
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: London Villan on October 23, 2021, 07:33:06 PM
			

			

				Good, they should be pissed off. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: brontebilly on October 23, 2021, 07:38:12 PM
			

			

				Mings and McGinn seemed to be mouthing off at one another quite a bit during the game. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: astonvilla82 on October 23, 2021, 07:53:31 PM
			

			

				Someone making up shit for a few clicks?, until I hear from a reliable source like from here I take it with a pinch of salt
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on October 23, 2021, 07:54:47 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: astonvilla82 on October 23, 2021, 07:53:31 PM
Someone making up shit for a few clicks?, until I hear from a reliable source like from here I take it with a pinch of salt
it has been confirmed on here.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Monty on October 23, 2021, 07:58:30 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: brontebilly on October 23, 2021, 07:38:12 PM
Mings and McGinn seemed to be mouthing off at one another quite a bit during the game. 

Maybe they should focus more on giving the fucking ball away a bit less.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: astonvilla82 on October 23, 2021, 08:07:05 PM
			

			

				What's been confirmed then?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: astonvilla82 on October 23, 2021, 08:08:49 PM
			

			

				Just looked back on previous page see what you mean
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on October 23, 2021, 08:17:38 PM
			

			

				Apparently Sanson pulled his hammy kicking that water bottle and is out for another 3 weeks 

Hause also tried to get involved and was hopeful while the bottle was flying in the air but as soon as it touched  the ground he knew he’d got no chance of getting anywhere near it

Mings was also very annoyed but then lost concentration after about two minutes then got his phone out and started playing snake 
(off Twitter for that one )



			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on October 23, 2021, 08:39:40 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: astonvilla82 on October 23, 2021, 07:53:31 PM
Someone making up shit for a few clicks?, until I hear from a reliable source like from here I take it with a pinch of salt

Somebody I know and trust implicitly said she saw the Sanson incident, ie that he chucked a water bottle at Smith and flipped him the finger. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ads on October 23, 2021, 08:42:14 PM
			

			

				What did Smith do?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Clampy on October 23, 2021, 08:43:52 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on October 23, 2021, 08:39:40 PM
Quote from: astonvilla82 on October 23, 2021, 07:53:31 PM
Someone making up shit for a few clicks?, until I hear from a reliable source like from here I take it with a pinch of salt

Somebody I know and trust implicitly said she saw the Sanson incident, ie that he chucked a water bottle at Smith and flipped him the finger. 

Out of interest, where was she when she saw this? 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: cdbearsfan on October 23, 2021, 08:43:53 PM
			

			

				 Brought on another defender.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on October 23, 2021, 08:44:58 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Ads on October 23, 2021, 08:42:14 PM
What did Smith do?

Said yeah no then went to discuss it with the set piece specialist with a clipboard
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: olaftab on October 23, 2021, 08:45:35 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Clampy on October 23, 2021, 08:43:52 PM
Quote from: Risso on October 23, 2021, 08:39:40 PM
Quote from: astonvilla82 on October 23, 2021, 07:53:31 PM
Someone making up shit for a few clicks?, until I hear from a reliable source like from here I take it with a pinch of salt

Somebody I know and trust implicitly said she saw the Sanson incident, ie that he chucked a water bottle at Smith and flipped him the finger. 

Out of interest, where was she when she saw this? 
She was hanging on to Sanson's hair. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on October 23, 2021, 08:49:51 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Clampy on October 23, 2021, 08:43:52 PM
Quote from: Risso on October 23, 2021, 08:39:40 PM
Quote from: astonvilla82 on October 23, 2021, 07:53:31 PM
Someone making up shit for a few clicks?, until I hear from a reliable source like from here I take it with a pinch of salt

Somebody I know and trust implicitly said she saw the Sanson incident, ie that he chucked a water bottle at Smith and flipped him the finger. 

Out of interest, where was she when she saw this? 

At the match.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Clampy on October 23, 2021, 08:52:56 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on October 23, 2021, 08:49:51 PM
Quote from: Clampy on October 23, 2021, 08:43:52 PM
Quote from: Risso on October 23, 2021, 08:39:40 PM
Quote from: astonvilla82 on October 23, 2021, 07:53:31 PM
Someone making up shit for a few clicks?, until I hear from a reliable source like from here I take it with a pinch of salt

Somebody I know and trust implicitly said she saw the Sanson incident, ie that he chucked a water bottle at Smith and flipped him the finger. 

Out of interest, where was she when she saw this? 

At the match.

Ah, ok. In the away end? 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on October 23, 2021, 08:54:07 PM
			

			

				No idea sorry.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: TonyD on October 23, 2021, 08:54:52 PM
			

			

				The player’s energy and composure went to rat shit after the ManU game.  Which was odd considering the result.  
Maybe there has been a fall out.  
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: cdbearsfan on October 23, 2021, 08:57:36 PM
			

			

				Deservedly beat Man U by playing well. But were helped by them playing shite. Smith seems to have seen that as proof that 5-3-2 was a panacea and the players bought into it. We've been rubbish ever since.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Demitri_C on October 23, 2021, 09:01:55 PM
			

			

				Sanson really does have a case to be annoyed. Smith has given him very little opportunity yet he goes on how much we miss him and what a big player he woll be for us yet cant get into a cm thats badly struggling.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on October 23, 2021, 09:05:27 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Demitri_C on October 23, 2021, 09:01:55 PM
Sanson really does have a case to be annoyed. Smith has given him very little opportunity yet he goes on how much we miss him and what a big player he woll be for us yet cant get into a cm thats badly struggling.

To be fair he's been at the Keinan Davis school of physical endurance. You can't moan about not being given a chance when every time you do you end up injured.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: steamer on October 23, 2021, 09:05:32 PM
			

			

				Not sure I have seen that much of him to agree
What are his game stats this season ?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on October 23, 2021, 09:10:58 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Clampy on October 23, 2021, 08:52:56 PM
Quote from: Risso on October 23, 2021, 08:49:51 PM
Quote from: Clampy on October 23, 2021, 08:43:52 PM
Quote from: Risso on October 23, 2021, 08:39:40 PM
Quote from: astonvilla82 on October 23, 2021, 07:53:31 PM
Someone making up shit for a few clicks?, until I hear from a reliable source like from here I take it with a pinch of salt

Somebody I know and trust implicitly said she saw the Sanson incident, ie that he chucked a water bottle at Smith and flipped him the finger. 

Out of interest, where was she when she saw this? 

At the match.

Ah, ok. In the away end? 

If it’s a woman called Victoria on Twitter says she was sitting further up behind the dugouts
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on October 23, 2021, 09:12:44 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Demitri_C on October 23, 2021, 09:01:55 PM
Sanson really does have a case to be annoyed. Smith has given him very little opportunity yet he goes on how much we miss him and what a big player he woll be for us yet cant get into a cm thats badly struggling.


The best way to get more game time is probably not to kick a bottle and throw the finger at your boss
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Demitri_C on October 23, 2021, 09:39:03 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on October 23, 2021, 09:05:27 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on October 23, 2021, 09:01:55 PM
Sanson really does have a case to be annoyed. Smith has given him very little opportunity yet he goes on how much we miss him and what a big player he woll be for us yet cant get into a cm thats badly struggling.

To be fair he's been at the Keinan Davis school of physical endurance. You can't moan about not being given a chance when every time you do you end up injured.

Not really his fault that he is getting injured though. In his last game he looked really goof. Hoping he gets a chance soon but seems to be going the berson route.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: LeeB on October 23, 2021, 10:11:12 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Demitri_C on October 23, 2021, 09:39:03 PM
Quote from: Risso on October 23, 2021, 09:05:27 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on October 23, 2021, 09:01:55 PM
Sanson really does have a case to be annoyed. Smith has given him very little opportunity yet he goes on how much we miss him and what a big player he woll be for us yet cant get into a cm thats badly struggling.

To be fair he's been at the Keinan Davis school of physical endurance. You can't moan about not being given a chance when every time you do you end up injured.

Not really his fault that he is getting injured though. In his last game he looked really goof. Hoping he gets a chance soon but seems to be going the berson route.

I know it's a typo, but you're right, he showed bite.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on October 23, 2021, 10:20:34 PM
			

			

				I was one of the last people who believed he'd keep us up, and one of his staunchest defenders (more so than than fucking Tuanzebe anyway), but he needs to turn it around really quickly.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on October 23, 2021, 10:22:38 PM
			

			

				Mings and McGinn were arguing, they are two senior players who failed, between them, to clear a couple of corners. I'd fully expect it.

I'm sure there's nobody happy about that match for a variety of reasons. Even Ramsey scoring that great goal didn't look happy.

The passing was all over the place, the energy levels were low, it was all rubbish.

Now the result against Wolves was shite but we'd all have been happy at the 80th minute point wouldn't we? It's not like we were garbage for the whole game. Last night we were fucking terrible in that first half. My concern is that we should have changed it way earlier. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: tomd2103 on October 24, 2021, 01:57:39 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on October 23, 2021, 08:57:36 PM
Deservedly beat Man U by playing well. But were helped by them playing shite. Smith seems to have seen that as proof that 5-3-2 was a panacea and the players bought into it. We've been rubbish ever since.

Still think the main reason we have switched to that formation is so that both Ings and Watkins can play centrally.  Problem with switching the formation is that we are almost starting over again, rather than building on last season.  

Whichever formation we are going to use, I still think we look light in central midfield and that still remains a problem area.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ROBBO on October 24, 2021, 08:06:04 AM
			

			

				Four weeks ago we believed that our next three games were all winnable. We were playing teams low on confidence who were there for the taking. Where we should have been just outside the top four we are once again looking backwards, i know I am already spending more time looking at the results of teams below us. This is not how it was meant to be, we have a much stronger squad. Strangely I think we will beat Spam because the alternitive will be the end of Dean at Villa Park.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Footy-Vill on October 24, 2021, 08:37:33 AM
			

			

				Players arguing isn't a major deal in scheme of things especially the context
Mings was super annoyed by McGinn inept defending as SJM didn't jump with Partey for the goal and not only that he was in the way of Mings who would have cleared the ball.
So having cross words makes sense. To me it would be more concerning if they were arguing without substance.

I feel Smith is totally safe in the job. He knows the task in hand and he'll address our losing.
The good thing is Deano won't allow another performance like what we witnessed on Friday again, so vs West Ham will do everything in his coaching power to get 3pts. 

Keep the faith! 
In Dean Smith we trust 
Up the Villa
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on October 24, 2021, 10:57:58 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Footy-Vill on October 24, 2021, 08:37:33 AM
Players arguing isn't a major deal in scheme of things especially the context
Mings was super annoyed by McGinn inept defending as SJM didn't jump with Partey for the goal and not only that he was in the way of Mings who would have cleared the ball.
So having cross words makes sense. To me it would be more concerning if they were arguing without substance.

I feel Smith is totally safe in the job. He knows the task in hand and he'll address our losing.
The good thing is Deano won't allow another performance like what we witnessed on Friday again, so vs West Ham will do everything in his coaching power to get 3pts. 

Keep the faith! 
In Dean Smith we trust 
Up the Villa

Do you not think he should have coached the team not to have a repeat of the last 10 minutes against Wolves? Instead, we got all the usual shit about "good response in training" and then Smith kept the same idiotic formation, and the team served up *that*. It looks like the atmosphere in the team is rotten, and he had a player swearing at him during the match. In Smith I do not trust, at all. Time to go.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: dave.woodhall on October 24, 2021, 11:29:25 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on October 24, 2021, 10:57:58 AM
Quote from: Footy-Vill on October 24, 2021, 08:37:33 AM
Players arguing isn't a major deal in scheme of things especially the context
Mings was super annoyed by McGinn inept defending as SJM didn't jump with Partey for the goal and not only that he was in the way of Mings who would have cleared the ball.
So having cross words makes sense. To me it would be more concerning if they were arguing without substance.

I feel Smith is totally safe in the job. He knows the task in hand and he'll address our losing.
The good thing is Deano won't allow another performance like what we witnessed on Friday again, so vs West Ham will do everything in his coaching power to get 3pts. 

Keep the faith! 
In Dean Smith we trust 
Up the Villa

Do you not think he should have coached the team not to have a repeat of the last 10 minutes against Wolves? Instead, we got all the usual shit about "good response in training" and then Smith kept the same idiotic formation, and the team served up *that*. It looks like the atmosphere in the team is rotten, and he had a player swearing at him during the match. In Smith I do not trust, at all. Time to go.

How many times have you said that now? Every time you were wrong. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on October 24, 2021, 11:32:44 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: dave.woodhall on October 24, 2021, 11:29:25 AM
Quote from: Risso on October 24, 2021, 10:57:58 AM
Quote from: Footy-Vill on October 24, 2021, 08:37:33 AM
Players arguing isn't a major deal in scheme of things especially the context
Mings was super annoyed by McGinn inept defending as SJM didn't jump with Partey for the goal and not only that he was in the way of Mings who would have cleared the ball.
So having cross words makes sense. To me it would be more concerning if they were arguing without substance.

I feel Smith is totally safe in the job. He knows the task in hand and he'll address our losing.
The good thing is Deano won't allow another performance like what we witnessed on Friday again, so vs West Ham will do everything in his coaching power to get 3pts. 

Keep the faith! 
In Dean Smith we trust 
Up the Villa

Do you not think he should have coached the team not to have a repeat of the last 10 minutes against Wolves? Instead, we got all the usual shit about "good response in training" and then Smith kept the same idiotic formation, and the team served up *that*. It looks like the atmosphere in the team is rotten, and he had a player swearing at him during the match. In Smith I do not trust, at all. Time to go.

How many times have you said that now? Every time you were wrong. 

Eh? Which bit is wrong?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: West Derby Villan on October 24, 2021, 11:34:15 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Footy-Vill on October 24, 2021, 08:37:33 AM
Players arguing isn't a major deal in scheme of things especially the context
Mings was super annoyed by McGinn inept defending as SJM didn't jump with Partey for the goal and not only that he was in the way of Mings who would have cleared the ball.
So having cross words makes sense. To me it would be more concerning if they were arguing without substance.

I feel Smith is totally safe in the job. He knows the task in hand and he'll address our losing.
The good thing is Deano won't allow another performance like what we witnessed on Friday again, so vs West Ham will do everything in his coaching power to get 3pts. 

Keep the faith! 
In Dean Smith we trust 
Up the Villa

Agree 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: dave.woodhall on October 24, 2021, 11:35:19 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on October 24, 2021, 11:32:44 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on October 24, 2021, 11:29:25 AM
Quote from: Risso on October 24, 2021, 10:57:58 AM
Quote from: Footy-Vill on October 24, 2021, 08:37:33 AM
Players arguing isn't a major deal in scheme of things especially the context
Mings was super annoyed by McGinn inept defending as SJM didn't jump with Partey for the goal and not only that he was in the way of Mings who would have cleared the ball.
So having cross words makes sense. To me it would be more concerning if they were arguing without substance.

I feel Smith is totally safe in the job. He knows the task in hand and he'll address our losing.
The good thing is Deano won't allow another performance like what we witnessed on Friday again, so vs West Ham will do everything in his coaching power to get 3pts. 

Keep the faith! 
In Dean Smith we trust 
Up the Villa

Do you not think he should have coached the team not to have a repeat of the last 10 minutes against Wolves? Instead, we got all the usual shit about "good response in training" and then Smith kept the same idiotic formation, and the team served up *that*. It looks like the atmosphere in the team is rotten, and he had a player swearing at him during the match. In Smith I do not trust, at all. Time to go.

How many times have you said that now? Every time you were wrong. 

Eh? Which bit is wrong?

Every time you've said he should be sacked over the past three years. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: TonyD on October 24, 2021, 11:45:36 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: dave.woodhall on October 24, 2021, 11:35:19 AM
Quote from: Risso on October 24, 2021, 11:32:44 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on October 24, 2021, 11:29:25 AM
Quote from: Risso on October 24, 2021, 10:57:58 AM
Quote from: Footy-Vill on October 24, 2021, 08:37:33 AM
Players arguing isn't a major deal in scheme of things especially the context
Mings was super annoyed by McGinn inept defending as SJM didn't jump with Partey for the goal and not only that he was in the way of Mings who would have cleared the ball.
So having cross words makes sense. To me it would be more concerning if they were arguing without substance.

I feel Smith is totally safe in the job. He knows the task in hand and he'll address our losing.
The good thing is Deano won't allow another performance like what we witnessed on Friday again, so vs West Ham will do everything in his coaching power to get 3pts. 

Keep the faith! 
In Dean Smith we trust 
Up the Villa

Do you not think he should have coached the team not to have a repeat of the last 10 minutes against Wolves? Instead, we got all the usual shit about "good response in training" and then Smith kept the same idiotic formation, and the team served up *that*. It looks like the atmosphere in the team is rotten, and he had a player swearing at him during the match. In Smith I do not trust, at all. Time to go.

How many times have you said that now? Every time you were wrong. 

Eh? Which bit is wrong?

Every time you've said he should be sacked over the past three years. 
Perhaps if he had of been sacked we wouldn’t have gone on bad runs, almost got relegated - we were basically down, stayed up through Terry sorting the defence, Jack and luck , wouldn’t  have a rubbish second half to last season and a better start to this season.  
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on October 24, 2021, 11:48:27 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: dave.woodhall on October 24, 2021, 11:35:19 AM

Every time you've said he should be sacked over the past three years. 

You've never questioned him at all in that time of course.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: dave.woodhall on October 24, 2021, 11:49:13 AM
			

			

				Perhaps we might also not have stayed up, got to a cup final, played some of the best football any of us have ever seen and less than a month ago beaten two teams who would have gone top of the league if they'd won. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on October 24, 2021, 11:49:22 AM
			

			

				It's a big, big assumption to think that Terry sorted the defence. He was there when they were terrible.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: dave.woodhall on October 24, 2021, 11:50:35 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on October 24, 2021, 11:48:27 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on October 24, 2021, 11:35:19 AM

Every time you've said he should be sacked over the past three years. 

You've never questioned him at all in that time of course.

I've never said he was perfect, I've never say he hasn't made a mistake, I've never said he should be sacked. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: TonyD on October 24, 2021, 11:58:15 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: dave.woodhall on October 24, 2021, 11:49:13 AM
Perhaps we might also not have stayed up, got to a cup final, played some of the best football any of us have ever seen and less than a month ago beaten two teams who would have gone top of the league if they'd won. 
Of course we have had some awesome results.  But I’ve seen enough to suggest that he isn’t good enough to knit these performances together to be consistent enough.  His inability to change something if needed quickly enough once the games starts is almost impossible to comprehend.   
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Villan82 on October 24, 2021, 12:01:15 PM
			

			

				I am sick of the bad runs. I know mid-table sides are inconsistent but even the championship year we got into an horrific run of form. We have these long stretches of defeats. He isn't good at finding a way to scrape a point out of a bad game and/or find a formula to win when we have key players out. To come away with the points we usually have to fire on all cylinders.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on October 24, 2021, 12:02:08 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: dave.woodhall on October 24, 2021, 11:50:35 AM
Quote from: Risso on October 24, 2021, 11:48:27 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on October 24, 2021, 11:35:19 AM

Every time you've said he should be sacked over the past three years. 

You've never questioned him at all in that time of course.

I've never said he was perfect, I've never say he hasn't made a mistake, I've never said he should be sacked. 

I distinctly recall you questioning whether he should stay around Christmas in the first season back. But whatever helps you sleep at night.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: olaftab on October 24, 2021, 12:04:05 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on October 24, 2021, 11:49:22 AM
It's a big, big assumption to think that Terry sorted the defence. He was there when they were terrible.
Yup it was Terry's job to sort the defence for his entire stay here but somehow he only bothered when we were about to be relegated and we should be grateful for that. Ming boggles. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: dave.woodhall on October 24, 2021, 12:06:29 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on October 24, 2021, 12:02:08 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on October 24, 2021, 11:50:35 AM
Quote from: Risso on October 24, 2021, 11:48:27 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on October 24, 2021, 11:35:19 AM

Every time you've said he should be sacked over the past three years. 

You've never questioned him at all in that time of course.

I've never said he was perfect, I've never say he hasn't made a mistake, I've never said he should be sacked. 

I distinctly recall you questioning whether he should stay around Christmas in the first season back. But whatever helps you sleep at night.

Really? That's news to me. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on October 24, 2021, 12:06:33 PM
			

			

				It's impossible to know what direct effect coaches have. When we had our terrific start last season, it was Shakespeare getting some of the plaudits. I think it's fair to say that given the last few games, MacPhee has got his work cut out.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: TonyD on October 24, 2021, 12:09:06 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: olaftab on October 24, 2021, 12:04:05 PM
Quote from: Sexual Ealing on October 24, 2021, 11:49:22 AM
It's a big, big assumption to think that Terry sorted the defence. He was there when they were terrible.
Yup it was Terry's job to sort the defence for his entire stay here but somehow he only bothered when we were about to be relegated and we should be grateful for that. Ming boggles. 
Wasn’t it because of the Covid break.   Had time to drill the players and it seemed to pay off when the matches resumed.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on October 24, 2021, 12:09:16 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: dave.woodhall on October 24, 2021, 12:06:29 PM
Quote from: Risso on October 24, 2021, 12:02:08 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on October 24, 2021, 11:50:35 AM
Quote from: Risso on October 24, 2021, 11:48:27 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on October 24, 2021, 11:35:19 AM

Every time you've said he should be sacked over the past three years. 

You've never questioned him at all in that time of course.

I've never said he was perfect, I've never say he hasn't made a mistake, I've never said he should be sacked. 

I distinctly recall you questioning whether he should stay around Christmas in the first season back. But whatever helps you sleep at night.

Really? That's news to me. 

Allow me to jog your memory then:

"There are serious problems at Villa Park. The new signings aren’t making the improvement that was expected, some of the old stagers are in poor form and the manager seems gripped in the latter stages of inertia. That means some serious decisions have to be made."

It's not a crime to question the manager Dave. We all want what's best for Villa.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: dave.woodhall on October 24, 2021, 12:12:01 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on October 24, 2021, 12:09:16 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on October 24, 2021, 12:06:29 PM
Quote from: Risso on October 24, 2021, 12:02:08 PM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on October 24, 2021, 11:50:35 AM
Quote from: Risso on October 24, 2021, 11:48:27 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on October 24, 2021, 11:35:19 AM

Every time you've said he should be sacked over the past three years. 

You've never questioned him at all in that time of course.

I've never said he was perfect, I've never say he hasn't made a mistake, I've never said he should be sacked. 

I distinctly recall you questioning whether he should stay around Christmas in the first season back. But whatever helps you sleep at night.

Really? That's news to me. 

Allow me to jog your memory then:

"There are serious problems at Villa Park. The new signings aren’t making the improvement that was expected, some of the old stagers are in poor form and the manager seems gripped in the latter stages of inertia. That means some serious decisions have to be made."

It's not a crime to question the manager Dave. We all want what's best for Villa.

And where in all that fine prose does it say the manager should be sacked? 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on October 24, 2021, 12:15:51 PM
			

			

				I said you were questioning whether he should stay.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: dave.woodhall on October 24, 2021, 12:18:51 PM
			

			

				No, I was saying that decisions had to be made, whether that involved new signings, new tactics, dropping regulars, a myriad of things. I've never said he should be sacked. I still don't. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on October 24, 2021, 12:21:24 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: dave.woodhall on October 24, 2021, 12:18:51 PM
No, I was saying that decisions had to be made, whether that involved new signings, new tactics, dropping regulars, a myriad of things. I've never said he should be sacked. I still don't. 

Well, the next line was:

"If Smith is to remain.." so I'd say it was about the manager, too.

I don't know why you're being so coy about it, the football then was absolutely abysmal, and you were only saying what everybody else was at the time.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: dave.woodhall on October 24, 2021, 12:24:21 PM
			

			

				Because I don't like being told I've said things when I haven't. Now if you'll excuse me, I have work to do. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on October 24, 2021, 01:03:38 PM
			

			

				They're a direct quote from your Birmingham Press article after the 3-0 defeat to Watford.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: dave.woodhall on October 24, 2021, 01:20:07 PM
			

			

				They can be whenever and wherever you want them to be, I still didn't say the manager should be sacked. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on October 24, 2021, 01:29:32 PM
			

			

				I'll leave it there, it's clear for everybody to see.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ads on October 24, 2021, 01:32:49 PM
			

			

				First half - 17th

Second half - 6th

That's a dramatic inconsisteny. We need faster and more high energetic starts. Even if that's 15 minutes of flying press to throw the opposition off and grab territory, something has to change.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Clampy on October 24, 2021, 01:40:02 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on October 24, 2021, 01:29:32 PM
I'll leave it there, it's clear for everybody to see.

No, it's not. He said 'if he were to remain'. That sounds a bit different to saying 'I want him sacked'. 


			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on October 24, 2021, 01:41:50 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Clampy on October 24, 2021, 01:40:02 PM
Quote from: Risso on October 24, 2021, 01:29:32 PM
I'll leave it there, it's clear for everybody to see.

No, it's not. He said 'if he were to remain'. That sounds a bit different to saying 'I want him sacked'. 



Which I never said he did.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Clampy on October 24, 2021, 01:56:32 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on October 24, 2021, 01:41:50 PM
Quote from: Clampy on October 24, 2021, 01:40:02 PM
Quote from: Risso on October 24, 2021, 01:29:32 PM
I'll leave it there, it's clear for everybody to see.

No, it's not. He said 'if he were to remain'. That sounds a bit different to saying 'I want him sacked'. 



Which I never said he did.

'If he were to remain' is fine. It depends how you read it. It's hardly the same as starting a Smith Out thread really. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ads on October 24, 2021, 02:05:11 PM
			

			

				Alright lads, we've all had a drink, let's leave it out.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Clampy on October 24, 2021, 02:07:57 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Ads on October 24, 2021, 02:05:11 PM
Alright lads, we've all had a drink, let's leave it out.

Come over here and say that. 😀
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Mister E on October 24, 2021, 02:40:18 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Footy-Vill on October 24, 2021, 08:37:33 AM
... The good thing is Deano won't allow another performance like what we witnessed on Friday again, so vs West Ham will do everything in his coaching power to get 3pts ...
I think that was said after the Spurrrrrs game; the problem being we're in a rut and don't show much sign of digging ourselves out right now.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Mister E on October 24, 2021, 02:45:18 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: aj2k77 on October 22, 2021, 10:50:01 PM
We buy Traore, EL Ghazi, Trezeguet, Bailey and Buendia. All wide players, for the best part of £100m. Then pick a formation where we play with no wingers and use full backs pushed forward, neither of who can beat a man or cross the fucking road.
It's brain dead stuff from Smith at the moment.
From the Buendia tread: admittedly, most of the wingers listed have had fitness / injury issues, but it is a good point (and aj2k77 could have included JPB in the list for good measure, since he's played for the first team and has been in the squad).
In was in favour of the 3-5-2 as a way to develop some flexibility into our approach; not as a go-to line-up, though.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on October 24, 2021, 03:59:48 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Mister E on October 24, 2021, 02:40:18 PM
Quote from: Footy-Vill on October 24, 2021, 08:37:33 AM
... The good thing is Deano won't allow another performance like what we witnessed on Friday again, so vs West Ham will do everything in his coaching power to get 3pts ...
I think that was said after the Spurrrrrs game; the problem being we're in a rut and don't show much sign of digging ourselves out right now.
If there is one thing that Smith is capable of is following a shit performance with a shit performance.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: brian green on October 24, 2021, 04:21:18 PM
			

			

				Dean Smith does not need to go.  I would not call for him to go but what I would call for, very loudly and clearly, is for him to reinvent himself, to to abandon the wilfully stubborn mind set that his way is the only way.  I have used the metaphor before of US freeway signs that have painted in huge letters on the back of them   STOP   YOU ARE GOING THE WRONG WAY.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on October 24, 2021, 04:30:18 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: brian green on October 24, 2021, 04:21:18 PM
Dean Smith does not need to go.  I would not call for him to go but what I would call for, very loudly and clearly, is for him to reinvent himself, to to abandon the wilfully stubborn mind set that his way is the only way.  I have used the metaphor before of US freeway signs that have painted in huge letters on the back of them   STOP   YOU ARE GOING THE WRONG WAY.

I don't get it. He used the first lockdown wisely to analyse everything that had gone wrong, and was largely successful in reorganising things, so even though the football wasn't that great, it was enough to stay up and the defence was hugely improved. With a whole lot of squad improvements and another season under his belt, how has he let things drift again to such an extent that we don't really look much better overall at the start of this season than we did at the start of that season? On top of that, it now looks like he's got a deeply unhappy squad to deal with, and that's going to make turning things round that much harder.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: brian green on October 24, 2021, 04:44:31 PM
			

			

				Martin, in circumstance like those we now face "turning things around" is a palliative that masks the problem but does not address it.  Hard decisions and hard choices have to be made. Deeply rooted preconceived notions must be dumped.  Failing managers inevitably cling to loyal players but the loyal ones are not neccessarily the ones to listen to.  It all leads to Secret Santa Revisited.  And we all know what happened next.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on October 24, 2021, 04:55:18 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: brian green on October 24, 2021, 04:21:18 PM
Dean Smith does not need to go.  I would not call for him to go but what I would call for, very loudly and clearly, is for him to reinvent himself, to to abandon the wilfully stubborn mind set that his way is the only way.  I have used the metaphor before of US freeway signs that have painted in huge letters on the back of them   STOP   YOU ARE GOING THE WRONG WAY.
leopards and spots.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: villa for life on October 24, 2021, 05:01:24 PM
			

			

				Watching Liverpool v Man U now.

Man U ‘s situation not unlike ours

Desperately wanting one of your own to work out. Giving him longer than he should but all the time knowing he’s not quite good enough.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: olaftab on October 24, 2021, 05:04:39 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on October 24, 2021, 01:29:32 PM
I'll leave it there, it's clear for everybody to see.
I am with you on this. Other than semantics there is nothing to mull over. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: olaftab on October 24, 2021, 05:07:18 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: brian green on October 24, 2021, 04:21:18 PM
Dean Smith does not need to go.  I would not call for him to go but what I would call for, very loudly and clearly, is for him to reinvent himself, to to abandon the wilfully stubborn mind set that his way is the only way.  I have used the metaphor before of US freeway signs that have painted in huge letters on the back of them   STOP   YOU ARE GOING THE WRONG WAY.
They also have signs that say "Road surface is likely to be wet when it's raining". 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Allan C on October 24, 2021, 05:13:23 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: TonyD on October 24, 2021, 11:45:36 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on October 24, 2021, 11:35:19 AM
Quote from: Risso on October 24, 2021, 11:32:44 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on October 24, 2021, 11:29:25 AM
Quote from: Risso on October 24, 2021, 10:57:58 AM
Quote from: Footy-Vill on October 24, 2021, 08:37:33 AM
Players arguing isn't a major deal in scheme of things especially the context
Mings was super annoyed by McGinn inept defending as SJM didn't jump with Partey for the goal and not only that he was in the way of Mings who would have cleared the ball.
So having cross words makes sense. To me it would be more concerning if they were arguing without substance.

I feel Smith is totally safe in the job. He knows the task in hand and he'll address our losing.
The good thing is Deano won't allow another performance like what we witnessed on Friday again, so vs West Ham will do everything in his coaching power to get 3pts. 

Keep the faith! 
In Dean Smith we trust 
Up the Villa

Do you not think he should have coached the team not to have a repeat of the last 10 minutes against Wolves? Instead, we got all the usual shit about "good response in training" and then Smith kept the same idiotic formation, and the team served up *that*. It looks like the atmosphere in the team is rotten, and he had a player swearing at him during the match. In Smith I do not trust, at all. Time to go.

How many times have you said that now? Every time you were wrong. 

Eh? Which bit is wrong?

Every time you've said he should be sacked over the past three years. 
Perhaps if he had of been sacked we wouldn’t have gone on bad runs, almost got relegated - we were basically down, stayed up through Terry sorting the defence, Jack and luck , wouldn’t  have a rubbish second half to last season and a better start to this season. 
Disagree with a lot of that. We came up with a championship squad and we’re always gonna struggle. We effectively gave a free transfer to our best goal scorer since Andy Gray. Why didn’t Terry sort out the defence before the Covid break??? The squad was massively better last season but still being rebuilt when Covid again and fatigue took its toll. And this season, with the exception of Man City, Chelsea and Liverpool, there’s virtually nothing between the teams between 5th and 16th. We absolutely need to improve and look at tactics but I think Smith should be given a chance to sort it out
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Reuben on October 24, 2021, 05:17:39 PM
			

			

				I imagine we will lose to West Ham...and I'd imagine that even if we were on form such is they way they are going.
The following game v Southampton is therefore key and will determine if we are to finish around the same place as them and Palace or whether we can seriously be aiming for 10th/11th
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: brian green on October 24, 2021, 05:20:05 PM
			

			

				Because I am bored I will relate a true story.  True. Really. When I was working as an architect at Aldershot Barracks the worst disciplinary records on garrison were those of the Royal Corps of Physical Training and the Royal Corps of Music.  The gymnasts and the musicians were both undisciplined rabbles.  Somebody in the Army heirarchy had the brilliant brainwave of switching the Commanding Officers.  Thus a very senior military musician was put in charge if the gymnasts and the most senior physical training officer put in charge of the musicians.  It worked like a dream.  The music CO did not give a shit about how many back flips a corporal could do and the PE CO did not give a shit how long a trumpeter could hold a top C.  They just became blokes expected to do a job.  That is the sort of sea change a football team needs when the dressing room starts to turn nasty.  In a nutshell the moral of this story is that imagination and flexibility are more useful tools for a struggling manager than hair dryers and eyeballs out bollockings.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on October 24, 2021, 05:24:19 PM
			

			

				The game on Friday was like sending troops over the top with trombones rather than bayonets.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: gpbarr on October 24, 2021, 05:36:45 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Reuben on October 24, 2021, 05:17:39 PM
I imagine we will lose to West Ham...and I'd imagine that even if we were on form such is they way they are going.
The following game v Southampton is therefore key and will determine if we are to finish around the same place as them and Palace or whether we can seriously be aiming for 10th/11th

Your just kidding right?? Talking about where we will finish after the 11th game of the season is utter tosh 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Monty on October 24, 2021, 05:38:05 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: gpbarr on October 24, 2021, 05:36:45 PM
Quote from: Reuben on October 24, 2021, 05:17:39 PM
I imagine we will lose to West Ham...and I'd imagine that even if we were on form such is they way they are going.
The following game v Southampton is therefore key and will determine if we are to finish around the same place as them and Palace or whether we can seriously be aiming for 10th/11th

Your just kidding right?? Talking about where we will finish after the 11th game of the season is utter tosh 

Tell that to Norwich.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: olaftab on October 24, 2021, 05:41:08 PM
			

			

				At about 10 games table positions get established and other than one or two exceptions that's where teams end up. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ozzjim on October 24, 2021, 06:09:50 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: olaftab on October 24, 2021, 05:41:08 PM
At about 10 games table positions get established and other than one or two exceptions that's where teams end up. 
Give or take 2-3 positions I agree, although there is invariably a side that starts well enough then drops like a stone into the relegation scrap. Make no mistake though,  only take 2-3 points from the next 4, we are in that conversation, which after 13-14 games is very very poor. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on October 24, 2021, 06:15:12 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: ozzjim on October 24, 2021, 06:09:50 PM
Quote from: olaftab on October 24, 2021, 05:41:08 PM
At about 10 games table positions get established and other than one or two exceptions that's where teams end up. 
Give or take 2-3 positions I agree, although there is invariably a side that starts well enough then drops like a stone into the relegation scrap. Make no mistake though,  only take 2-3 points from the next 4, we are in that conversation, which after 13-14 games is very very poor.
after the next 4 we have Citeh Leicester and 'The Mighty Reds YNWA' 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: villabear on October 29, 2021, 11:28:28 AM
			

			

				From this mornings Dean Smith presser: 

"We’ve had two tight matches against Tottenham and Wolves and we probably threw the Wolves game away in the last 10 minutes.

“Out of the last three games, we’ve had two narrow defeats and one where we didn’t turn up in the first half."




errrrrr probably?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: brontebilly on October 29, 2021, 11:37:04 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: villabear on October 29, 2021, 11:28:28 AM
From this mornings Dean Smith presser: 

"We’ve had two tight matches against Tottenham and Wolves and we probably threw the Wolves game away in the last 10 minutes.

“Out of the last three games, we’ve had two narrow defeats and one where we didn’t turn up in the first half."




errrrrr probably?

The Tottenham match was only tight in the scoreline. We were battered in the second half. Another tactical mess. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Mister E on October 29, 2021, 12:05:47 PM
			

			

				Comments on the Grauniad website (https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/oct/29/dean-smith-in-need-of-solution-after-aston-villa-defeats-raise-doubts)



			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Mister E on October 29, 2021, 12:06:21 PM
			

			

				
Quote
Amid the cacophony surrounding Ole Gunnar Solskjær’s future, or apparent lack thereof, as Manchester United manager, chatter regarding his Aston Villa counterpart Dean Smith has barely registered on the football decibel scale. Speculating on the bookmakers’ Sack Race market might seem ghoulish but a small investment on Smith being handed his P45 before the white-hot Norwegian favourite may not constitute the world’s worst wager at double-digit odds.
His team go into Sunday’s home game against in-form West Ham on the back of three successive defeats, the most recent a surprisingly feeble capitulation against Arsenal. Despite taking the scalps of Newcastle, Everton and Manchester United this season, it has been reported that Villa’s position of 13th in the Premier League does not come close to matching the expectations of the chief executive, Christian Purslow, or his billionaire bosses, Nassef Sawiris and Wes Edens.

This was always going to be a difficult campaign for Smith as he got to grips with life after the departure of Jack Grealish. Villa won only three of the 12 Premier League games they played last season without their talisman and most gifted creator and his summer exit was inevitably going to be keenly felt despite the club hierarchy’s commendable efforts to replace him.

In a frank, forthright and widely praised video address to Villa fans after Grealish’s transfer to Manchester City, Purslow explained the background to the deal and said Villa had tried to replace the qualities – creativity, goals and assists – of their former captain by signing three forwards in Emi Buendía, Danny Ings and Leon Bailey. Nine games into the season, with Grealish looking as at home in the City ranks as he did at Villa, Smith’s side have yet to gel or get motoring with any kind of consistency.

In his address Purslow said “it was never our intention to replace Jack with one footballer”, a statement that made sense but didn’t touch on the structural difficulties the club would encounter in trying to crowbar the three newcomers into a team still allowed to field only 11 players. It was left to Smith and his staff to find a solution to that dilemma and the manager’s task was not made easier by the summer departure of John Terry and Richard O’Kelly, two key members of his backroom team.

In order to get Ings and his fellow striker Ollie Watkins into his starting lineup, Smith changed from his favoured 4-3-3 to 3-5-2, employing wing-backs instead of wingers. The switch also forced him to move Buendía from his favoured wide right position to a playmaking role behind the front two at the tip of a midfield triangle with John McGinn and Douglas Luiz. To say the Argentinian has not yet adapted would be putting it mildly.

Buendía was voted player of the Championship with Norwich last season, scoring 15 goals and providing 17 assists playing on the right of a front three, but at Villa he has managed one full 90 minutes, one goal and no assists in seven league appearances. In mitigation, he is reported to have been struggling with a nagging hip injury and sat out matches against Chelsea and Everton while in (or just out of) quarantine after a controversial and ultimately futile trip to Brazil with Argentina. Tellingly, Buendía’s best Villa performance came when he played on the right of a front three after Smith switched formation during their draw with Brentford.

Although injuries have restricted Bailey to four substitute appearances, it is difficult to see where the left winger would fit into Smith’s current lineup, and his fellow winger Anwar El Ghazi is believed to be surplus requirements and may be moved on in January.

Smith is a likable, decent man who is Villa through and through but while he will always retain fans’ affection and respect for getting them promoted ahead of schedule in 2019, three consecutive defeats have prompted concern in the stands and – if local reporters are to be believed – the first signs of itchy trigger fingers in the boardroom.

A sluggish performance in defeat against Tottenham was followed by a calamitous final 10 minutes at home to local rivals Wolves in which they threw away a two-goal lead, and the meek surrender against Arsenal. They host a West Ham side dealing more than capably with the demands of action on the domestic and European front during a season in which many thought they might struggle.

Smith has done more than enough excellent work at Villa to buy himself time to avert the mini-crisis but it is difficult to escape the conclusion that defeat by West Ham could have serious repercussions for his future. His employers have lofty ambitions and did not accumulate the vast combined wealth that makes them the fourth-richest owners in the Premier League by trading in misty-eyed sentiment or nostalgia.

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on October 29, 2021, 12:06:55 PM
			

			

				Always worrying when delusion starts to set in with football managers.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: villa `cross the mersey on October 29, 2021, 03:31:43 PM
			

			

				Good piece in the Guardian - can`t disagree with anything in the article. Whilst I agree that Smith has overseen our return to the top flight I have always considered his appointment a little underwhelming. Likewise, once getting us into the Premier League he deserved the opportunity to take us forward albeit with an over reliance on Grealish.
The last three results have been extremely disappointing, not just because we lost but the manner in which we lost. i.e. Smith being either stubborn with his formation or being unable to respond to in game changes.
His latest pre- match comments seem to reiterate that he doesn't feel he is responsible for the reasons for our disappointing form.
I recall with some embarrassment the photographic images of our players celebrating after defeating Manure on their turf - yes great result but the celebrating was for me a little over the top and "small time". While on holiday in Greece in July and September I met numerous fans from clubs far and wide and almost without exception the general perception was that Villa are viewed as a well supported club, with a great history but with little or no chance of being among the honours any time soon, especially after losing our best player.   
Most of us longstanding Villa fans see us as still being a "Big Club" whereas in reality we are hardly troubling those clubs who have become perennial winners over the past 10 - 15 years.
An appointment of a top European coach may go some way to restoring our standing however I've not a clue who is willing or available to do so. 
As much as it easy to like Dean Smith with his love of the club etc I think in order to move the club onwards and upwards we will need to be ruthless and appoint someone with greater technical and coaching abilities ...       
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: N'ZMAV on October 29, 2021, 03:36:02 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on October 29, 2021, 12:06:55 PM
Always worrying when delusion starts to set in with football managers.
 we always get the delusional ones.... O'Neill towards the end, Lambert, O'Leary, Bruce to name a few....
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on October 29, 2021, 04:33:14 PM
			

			

				I guess they all suffer from it when they start to fail.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Footy-Vill on October 29, 2021, 04:42:20 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: N'ZMAV on October 29, 2021, 03:36:02 PM
Quote from: Risso on October 29, 2021, 12:06:55 PM
Always worrying when delusion starts to set in with football managers.
 we always get the delusional ones.... O'Neill towards the end, Lambert, O'Leary, Bruce to name a few....
Very harsh to label Dean who speaks so well and just.
Deans moving forward. He doesn't make excuses and he's always accountable both for his own decisions and that of the team
An excellent coach and an excellent man
 I reiterate this point on the Dean Smith thread! 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: wince on October 29, 2021, 05:02:27 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Footy-Vill on October 29, 2021, 04:42:20 PM

Quote from: N'ZMAV on October 29, 2021, 03:36:02 PM
Quote from: Risso on October 29, 2021, 12:06:55 PM
Always worrying when delusion starts to set in with football managers.
 we always get the delusional ones.... O'Neill towards the end, Lambert, O'Leary, Bruce to name a few....
Very harsh to label Dean who speaks so well and just.
Deans moving forward. He doesn't make excuses and he's always accountable both for his own decisions and that of the team
An excellent coach and an excellent man
 I reiterate this point on the Dean Smith thread!

Maybe have him in the coaching staff then under a new manager? He is a good coach but would work better as a number 2 who doesn’t have to worry about tactics?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Footy-Vill on October 29, 2021, 06:02:18 PM
			

			

				Deano seems calm to me
3 games ago beat Man Utd- desrved and at Old Trafford 
And he called it right on how our last 3 matches have been with 2 tight matches spurs and wolves 
And 80 minutes we were winning that Wolves match.
And a really poor first half against Arsenal.
Changed at half time and got better at and a response Arsenal.
DS is such a positive thinker and I think has a really good looking perspective on our last 3 matches. Yes but also knows performances and in turn results must be improved upon.
Last 3 games 2 narrow defeats 
And a game where we didn't turn up for 45 minutes yet we got a response second half. That's all that's occurred.  

Nothing deluded there .



			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Mister E on October 29, 2021, 06:58:04 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Footy-Vill on October 29, 2021, 06:02:18 PM
Deano seems calm to me
3 games ago beat Man Utd- desrved and at Old Trafford 
And he called it right on how our last 3 matches have been with 2 tight matches spurs and wolves 
And 80 minutes we were winning that Wolves match.
Wolves was not a 'tight game' - we were in easy street and failed to adjust the tactics to deal with Podence coming on and a more offensive game from the oppo in the last 10 minutes. Against Spurrrrrrs, we were abject: the score may have been tight but our performance and player-mentality were terrible.

Quote from: Footy-Vill on October 29, 2021, 06:02:18 PM
And a really poor first half against Arsenal.
Changed at half time and got better at and a response Arsenal.
Smith changed the team for the second half because we were getting totally mullered; he got a response because he went back to the winning ways of last season.

Quote from: Footy-Vill on October 29, 2021, 06:02:18 PM
Nothing deluded there.
what? - from your post? Dunno, you tell me!

I'm not yet a Smith-out poster but I do think he needs to get up to pace fast with the top managers re systems and in-game management. I'd also like to know why he seems to have pissed on Sanson whom he was recently saying was a prime target for Villa.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: wince on October 29, 2021, 07:15:59 PM
			

			

				Can I say something without getting shot down? Does it not seem small time to say we beat manure? Especially after we beat Chelsea, Liverpool arsenal etc last season. It was a great win don’t get me wrong but I’m not gonna bounce up and down for being the conqueror of manure one week then getting mullered  by spuds, dogheads and the Tarquins as well as Watford. Spuds was a complacent team who didn’t show fight, wolves was a surrender and arsenal was a massive waste of time. Celebrating the highpoint of beating a shit manure side when there is something iffy at the villa.....

I honestly don’t care if dean is a nice bloke, one of us etc. He needs to sort the team out and not end in a win/lose team as we rarely draw so it’s shit or bust with him. It’s consistent and each time we hit form it’s amazing but lose a couple I expect to go on a losing streak. He is a good coach but he needs a ruthless side with the players at his disposal. Failing to do that we will just ride on the coat tails of promotion, cup finals, one of us accolades whilst others will think what might have been. Only smithy can prove us wrong and if he is sacked I do think he would be great to keep as part of the coaching squad. 
But if our aim is mid table mediocrity then he is our man. 

I would give him this season to move us higher than last but I honestly cannot see us doing it. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on October 29, 2021, 08:28:26 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Footy-Vill on October 29, 2021, 06:02:18 PM
Deano seems calm to me
3 games ago beat Man Utd- desrved and at Old Trafford 
And he called it right on how our last 3 matches have been with 2 tight matches spurs and wolves 
And 80 minutes we were winning that Wolves match.
And a really poor first half against Arsenal.
Changed at half time and got better at and a response Arsenal.
DS is such a positive thinker and I think has a really good looking perspective on our last 3 matches. Yes but also knows performances and in turn results must be improved upon.
Last 3 games 2 narrow defeats 
And a game where we didn't turn up for 45 minutes yet we got a response second half. That's all that's occurred.  

Nothing deluded there .

He shouldn't be calm. He should be on it and still fucking raging after last time.

You've no Idea of his perspective, frankly we all know Arsenal was a shit show and the capitulation against Wolves was unacceptable. He knows it too, whatever he says in a presser.

What's happened in the last couple of games especially is unacceptable.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: OzVilla on October 29, 2021, 10:43:22 PM
			

			

				I think he’s firmly in the ‘battling to keep his job’ territory and he’s bought it on himself unfortunately.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: RamboandBruno on October 30, 2021, 09:48:12 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: villa `cross the mersey on October 29, 2021, 03:31:43 PM
Good piece in the Guardian - can`t disagree with anything in the article. Whilst I agree that Smith has overseen our return to the top flight I have always considered his appointment a little underwhelming. Likewise, once getting us into the Premier League he deserved the opportunity to take us forward albeit with an over reliance on Grealish.
The last three results have been extremely disappointing, not just because we lost but the manner in which we lost. i.e. Smith being either stubborn with his formation or being unable to respond to in game changes.
His latest pre- match comments seem to reiterate that he doesn't feel he is responsible for the reasons for our disappointing form.
I recall with some embarrassment the photographic images of our players celebrating after defeating Manure on their turf - yes great result but the celebrating was for me a little over the top and "small time". While on holiday in Greece in July and September I met numerous fans from clubs far and wide and almost without exception the general perception was that Villa are viewed as a well supported club, with a great history but with little or no chance of being among the honours any time soon, especially after losing our best player.   
Most of us longstanding Villa fans see us as still being a "Big Club" whereas in reality we are hardly troubling those clubs who have become perennial winners over the past 10 - 15 years.
An appointment of a top European coach may go some way to restoring our standing however I've not a clue who is willing or available to do so. 
As much as it easy to like Dean Smith with his love of the club etc I think in order to move the club onwards and upwards we will need to be ruthless and appoint someone with greater technical and coaching abilities ...     

Time will tell whether Smith can take us further forward, or whether his time is approaching the end. Opposite to you i was really happy with his appointment and at the time it seemed like the only sensible managerial appointment we’d made in over a decade. Far more sensible than appointing Henry, who hasn’t set the world on fire and had disaster written all over it, imagine the proverbial cold night in Rotherham with him in charge. 
Largely Smith has proved to be a very good appointment, promotion, a cup final, staying up, solid progress and regularly beating the sky super six.
I have no problem with the players celebrating like they did at Man U, it felt at the time like a line in the sand to where we were going as a club, i celebrated like that as we never bloody win there, if you cant enjoy the moment, whats the point.
However, it has gone pear shaped since and a lot of that is down to Smith and the persistence with failing formations and use of players. If he continues with this use of players and results stay the same, he will lose his job and probably deservedly so, but at the moment he still has an opportunity to turn things around, starting with tomorrow, with a very tough game. 
As to what fans of other clubs think, i couldn’t give a shit, its meaningless. Its couched in bias and not understanding the club, its the same as me irrationally disliking Spurs and thinking they are a largely unsuccessful  outfit historically, or thinking West Ham (despite current form) being a small time club. I wouldn’t  expect their supporters to agree or care what i think. I definitely don’t think we should be judging Smith or our progress as a club on what fans of other clubs think. 

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ian. on October 30, 2021, 10:00:17 AM
			

			

				I’ve got a good feeling he will bounce back, starting from tomorrow’s game. I just hope it’s not down to Bailey playing and that masks in a similar way to Grealish in a Smith team.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Hookeysmith on October 30, 2021, 10:15:13 AM
			

			

				But great players are the difference to winning games. Maybe if everyone had been fit from the start we would of had a better start?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: TonyD on October 30, 2021, 11:26:44 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Hookeysmith on October 30, 2021, 10:15:13 AM
But great players are the difference to winning games. Maybe if everyone had been fit from the start we would of had a better start?
Suspect not with the formations.  But who knows. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Footy-Vill on October 30, 2021, 01:41:16 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: TonyD on October 30, 2021, 11:26:44 AM
Quote from: Hookeysmith on October 30, 2021, 10:15:13 AM
But great players are the difference to winning games. Maybe if everyone had been fit from the start we would of had a better start?
Suspect not with the formations.  But who knows.

Well Dean said formations dicated by players available 
Watkins was injured pre season and only just building that relationship with Ings
Buendia has had injury and Bailey 
Along with Mings and Traroe injury and a pre season disrupted with coaches leaving and friendlies and covid as well as international breaks it's no wonder haven't had the start say like a Brighton or West Ham 

I think when all our key players are up to speed we'll be quite a proposition 

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on October 30, 2021, 01:56:35 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Footy-Vill on October 30, 2021, 01:41:16 PM
Quote from: TonyD on October 30, 2021, 11:26:44 AM
Quote from: Hookeysmith on October 30, 2021, 10:15:13 AM
But great players are the difference to winning games. Maybe if everyone had been fit from the start we would of had a better start?
Suspect not with the formations.  But who knows.

Well Dean said formations dicated by players available 
Watkins was injured pre season and only just building that relationship with Ings
Buendia has had injury and Bailey 
Along with Mings and Traroe injury and a pre season disrupted with coaches leaving and friendlies and covid as well as international breaks it's no wonder haven't had the start say like a Brighton or West Ham 

I think when all our key players are up to speed we'll be quite a proposition 


Playing a right winger in central midfield isn't a decision thatis being enforced by who is available. Playing 3 centre backs isn't a decision that's being enforced by who is available.

Both of those choices are being made so he doesn't have to pick between Watkins or Ings on the bench, and him being unwilling to make that choice is at the heart of all the problems. I don't want him sacked but I do want him to learn that being a top manager with a talented squad means that sometimes he has to pick between 2 players who both deserve to start. The answer can't be to either ostracise and sell them (Guilbert and Engels, maybe Wesley and Sanson as well) or change the shape of the team to fit them in.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ian. on October 30, 2021, 02:34:09 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Hookeysmith on October 30, 2021, 10:15:13 AM
But great players are the difference to winning games. Maybe if everyone had been fit from the start we would of had a better start?

Yes I agree thats very true, but we really do need to start working out how to play with who and what we have and we’ve really struggled when we didn’t have Grealish and really pinning our hopes on a fit Bailey.

I’ve been reluctant to criticise Smith too much as I really think he’s done a fantastic job of turning us around and also so many of our transfers have been a success. I’m just really concerned about this situation with playing five across the back and not changing things quick enough if not working. It just seems a complete no brainer to try Watkins in the role he had success with at Brentford while we’ve had injuries and also not getting the best out of Buendía which personally I think is down to where we are trying to play him.

My other gripe is we’ve had a solid back four and this season it’s really looking shakey, again that’s down to formation.

I do think our pre-season was a disaster and our injuries have been really bad luck but tactics are on Smith’s head.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: RamboandBruno on October 30, 2021, 02:36:14 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: ozzjim on October 24, 2021, 06:09:50 PM
Quote from: olaftab on October 24, 2021, 05:41:08 PM
At about 10 games table positions get established and other than one or two exceptions that's where teams end up. 
Give or take 2-3 positions I agree, although there is invariably a side that starts well enough then drops like a stone into the relegation scrap. Make no mistake though,  only take 2-3 points from the next 4, we are in that conversation, which after 13-14 games is very very poor.

This isn’t really true though is it, its much more of a mixed bag. After 10 games last year there were teams that were in a position that was similar to where they finished, but there far more than 2 or 3 in vastly different positions. Spurs were top, Southampton 6th, Man U 9th, Man City something like 11th, Arsenal 14th, Fulham pretty clear of the bottom 3, i could go on. 
If we lose another 3 on the bounce then sure we’ll have to start contemplating it might be a season nearer the bottom than the top, but at the moment it does feel like a bleaker picture is being painted than is needed. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: villa for life on October 30, 2021, 02:45:38 PM
			

			

				If we lose another 3 on the bounce then sure we’ll have to start contemplating it might be a season nearer the bottom than the top
[/quote]



Aren’t we already nearer the bottom than the top?

If we lose another 3 in the bounce, we’ll be contemplating relegation,
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: RamboandBruno on October 30, 2021, 02:59:31 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: villa for life on October 30, 2021, 02:45:38 PM
If we lose another 3 on the bounce then sure we’ll have to start contemplating it might be a season nearer the bottom than the top



Aren’t we already nearer the bottom than the top?

If we lose another 3 in the bounce, we’ll be contemplating relegation,
[/quote]
The point I’m making is that being nearer the bottom than the top after 9 or 10 games is not necessarily  the indicator of where your probably going to finish, unless your miles ahead at the top or miles behind at the bottom. If and it is an if, we win tomorrow, we’ll be one point behind Leicester, despite an indifferent start does anyone think Leicester are going down.
Obviously if we lose another 3 on the bounce thats 6 in a row, and a different story. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: villa for life on October 30, 2021, 03:18:45 PM
			

			

				Err, that’s what I was saying… 

You said if we lose another three on the bounce, we might have to contemplate life nearer the bottom..

For me, that’s a bit of an understatement… !

Losing 6 on the bounce would definitely lead to relegation talk.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ads on October 30, 2021, 03:20:37 PM
			

			

				If we lose all our remaining games will be relegated.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: villa for life on October 30, 2021, 03:24:43 PM
			

			

				If we win all our remaining games, we’d win the title or be top 4 at least.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on October 30, 2021, 03:30:11 PM
			

			

				Burnley beat Brentford and we're 3 points off 18th.

Only 5 points off Brighton in 6th though who are getting taken apart at Liverpool currently.

Still early days but we don't really want to be establishing ourselves nicely in bottom 6.

Pretty sobering to think if West Ham beat us tomorrow they'll be 10 points clear of us. They're better than us currently but not that much better imo.

DS really needs to step up in next four weeks as December is looking very tough for wins when you look at who we're playing. Even Burnley at home have been a bogey team since promotion and that's our easiest one.

Currently this season has vibes of 10/11 when we still had a good team on paper but couldn't recover from losing Milner and were riddled with injuries all season. And the players didn't believe in what the manager wanted.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: N'ZMAV on October 30, 2021, 03:42:49 PM
			

			

				ain't looking good....
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: RamboandBruno on October 30, 2021, 03:45:02 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: villa for life on October 30, 2021, 03:18:45 PM
Err, that’s what I was saying… 

You said if we lose another three on the bounce, we might have to contemplate life nearer the bottom..

For me, that’s a bit of an understatement… !

Losing 6 on the bounce would definitely lead to relegation talk.

You also said aren’t we nearer the bottom than the top now, on the back of my point about 9 or 10 games not necessarily being an indicator of finishing positions. 
Im not anticipating us losing the next 3 games and don’t see the point in worrying about it and relegation talk if we lose the next 3 games when it hasn’t  even happened. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ads on October 30, 2021, 04:05:55 PM
			

			

				We need to put positive results together. This is a top 8 squad. Smith uses it and succeeds or somebody else will sooner rather than later.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: N'ZMAV on October 30, 2021, 04:13:02 PM
			

			

				we could do with a top 8 sort of manager 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on October 30, 2021, 04:35:05 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Ads on October 30, 2021, 04:05:55 PM
We need to put positive results together. This is a top 8 squad. Smith uses it and succeeds or somebody else will sooner rather than later.

8-10th would be good finish for us tbh. It's falling well short of that either during the season or in May that's going to end his time here so if gap to 9th or 10th starts getting close to double figures I don't really see how he can survive that.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: PaulWinch again on October 30, 2021, 07:16:48 PM
			

			

				Yep 13th-16th is way below where this squad should be irrespective of injuries.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on October 30, 2021, 08:07:54 PM
			

			

				Good barometer is how many points we finish off this Spurs side. Yes I know we were poor there the other week but no way we should be meekly accepting being 10 points off them as you saw the state they're in tonight.

Don't think they'll be getting much more than 50 points so something seriously wrong if we can't get close to them.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: tomd2103 on October 30, 2021, 10:33:18 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Ian. on October 30, 2021, 02:34:09 PM
Quote from: Hookeysmith on October 30, 2021, 10:15:13 AM
But great players are the difference to winning games. Maybe if everyone had been fit from the start we would of had a better start?

Yes I agree thats very true, but we really do need to start working out how to play with who and what we have and we’ve really struggled when we didn’t have Grealish and really pinning our hopes on a fit Bailey.

I’ve been reluctant to criticise Smith too much as I really think he’s done a fantastic job of turning us around and also so many of our transfers have been a success. I’m just really concerned about this situation with playing five across the back and not changing things quick enough if not working. It just seems a complete no brainer to try Watkins in the role he had success with at Brentford while we’ve had injuries and also not getting the best out of Buendía which personally I think is down to where we are trying to play him.

My other gripe is we’ve had a solid back four and this season it’s really looking shakey, again that’s down to formation.

I do think our pre-season was a disaster and our injuries have been really bad luck but tactics are on Smith’s head.

I tend to agree with a lot of this and do think some of the criticism being aimed at Dean Smith on the back of three defeats is harsh.

I do suppose my views on him are slightly clouded by the fact that I really want him to succeed given that he is from the local area, a Villa fan and is a decent bloke.  

I think that the criticism is harsh, as believe he has done everything asked of him to this point.  Under him, we got back into the top flight in his first season, stayed up in his second and then finished mid-table in his third.  I feel it is too early at this point to make any judgement on how this season will or will not pan out, particularly given the disruption we had in pre season and have had in the first few months of the season.

I do think some of the criticisms are valid, particularly regarding his in-game management at times.  I do think  the fact that he is still inexperienced in top flight management is potentially a factor in that though and that he is now also surrounded by a new coaching team.  

All things considered, I do think conversations about him being sacked are premature at this point.  
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: villadelph on October 31, 2021, 12:48:37 AM
			

			

				Cannot believe we’re in the bottom quarter of the table.. makes me sick to my stomach. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: cdbearsfan on October 31, 2021, 01:26:35 AM
			

			

				We aren't. We'll, not yet.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ROBBO on October 31, 2021, 01:43:30 AM
			

			

				Just had a look at the table and a loss this Sunday making four in a row will surely put Deans position as nearly untenable. We have had so many false dawns, with the squad we have we should be well in the top half.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: London Villan on October 31, 2021, 06:37:59 AM
			

			

				Frustrating thing is, 4 points from our last 3 games (not unreasonable when looking at the matches) would have seen us playing for 4th place today.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on October 31, 2021, 06:44:56 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Ads on October 30, 2021, 03:20:37 PM
If we lose all our remaining games will be relegated.

Just ahead of Norwich.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Footy-Vill on October 31, 2021, 11:38:01 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: London Villan on October 31, 2021, 06:37:59 AM
Frustrating thing is, 4 points from our last 3 games (not unreasonable when looking at the matches) would have seen us playing for 4th place today.
Too right frustrating.  However shows the fine margins but also how close we are to doing well 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Footy-Vill on October 31, 2021, 04:16:29 PM
			

			

				In Dean Smith we trust. 
Excellent line up in attacking and changed from 3 at the back.
Major move of dropping Mings but hope the team is going to get the goals for victory 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: markeeeebeeee2005 on October 31, 2021, 04:24:24 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Footy-Vill on October 31, 2021, 04:16:29 PM
In Dean Smith we trust. 
Excellent line up in attacking and changed from 3 at the back.
Major move of dropping Mings but hope the team is going to get the goals for victory

‘In Dean WE trust’ is being used a bit loosely there. You could change the ‘we’ to ‘I’ or ‘trust’ to ‘hope.’
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Villan82 on October 31, 2021, 04:51:00 PM
			

			

				He has lost his way. This is us back to square one after three years.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Demitri_C on October 31, 2021, 04:52:25 PM
			

			

				Thin ice
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Demitri_C on October 31, 2021, 05:23:08 PM
			

			

				45 minutes to savs your job dean.

I truly woeful performance 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Footy-Vill on October 31, 2021, 05:24:10 PM
			

			

				This isn't the Dean Smith out thread! 
Give the guy a break.
Still have another half to go
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: TelfordVilla on October 31, 2021, 05:28:54 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Demitri_C on October 31, 2021, 05:23:08 PM
45 minutes to savs your job dean.

I truly woeful performance 
 Not that bad a performance. They are 4th in the table. 2 fortunate goals. We are not flowing but confidence is low. Injury to JJ. Everything going against us currently. Have to stick together.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: LukeJames on October 31, 2021, 05:30:37 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: TelfordVilla on October 31, 2021, 05:28:54 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on October 31, 2021, 05:23:08 PM
45 minutes to savs your job dean.

I truly woeful performance 
 Not that bad a performance. They are 4th in the table. 2 fortunate goals. We are not flowing but confidence is low. Injury to JJ. Everything going against us currently. Have to stick together.

Hi Dean, get the fuck off social media and sort it out! 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Demitri_C on October 31, 2021, 05:34:55 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: TelfordVilla on October 31, 2021, 05:28:54 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on October 31, 2021, 05:23:08 PM
45 minutes to savs your job dean.

I truly woeful performance 
 Not that bad a performance. They are 4th in the table. 2 fortunate goals. We are not flowing but confidence is low. Injury to JJ. Everything going against us currently. Have to stick together.

Not for me we have showed very little quality. No belief in this team
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: richtheholtender on October 31, 2021, 05:45:33 PM
			

			

				I don't see how we can sack him when didn't invest and others around us did. You have to spend to stay still, we made a healthy profit. Says everything 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Footy-Vill on October 31, 2021, 07:20:40 PM
			

			

				I'm with Smith as he said it wasn't a 4-1 game and agreeing wasn't a 4-1 game
We and he had a lot of bad luck in that game and he made good changes to the team but it didn't totally work out 
But of Watkins header had gone in at 2-2 would have been a different story 
Similarly if there was no red card 
Dean also said team showed character as well as that we scored a good goal so there are positives in a somewhat strange match
I be interested to see how we perform and the team we put out Friday before people get carried away as that result to me was unlucky 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: LukeJames on October 31, 2021, 07:22:59 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Footy-Vill on October 31, 2021, 07:20:40 PM
I'm with Smith as he said it wasn't a 4-1 game and agreeing wasn't a 4-1 game
We and he had a lot of bad luck in that game and he made good changes to the team but it didn't totally work out 
But of Watkins header had gone in at 2-2 would have been a different story 
Similarly if there was no red card 
Dean also said team showed character as well as that we scored a good goal so there are positives in a somewhat strange match
I be interested to see how we perform and the team we put out Friday before people get carried away as that result to me was unlucky

Give it up footy, you spent the week telling us that there would be a reaction against Westham. Hes done. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on October 31, 2021, 07:27:07 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Footy-Vill on October 31, 2021, 07:20:40 PM
I'm with Smith as he said it wasn't a 4-1 game and agreeing wasn't a 4-1 game
We and he had a lot of bad luck in that game and he made good changes to the team but it didn't totally work out 
But of Watkins header had gone in at 2-2 would have been a different story 
Similarly if there was no red card 
Dean also said team showed character as well as that we scored a good goal so there are positives in a somewhat strange match
I be interested to see how we perform and the team we put out Friday before people get carried away as that result to me was unlucky 

Bad luck is what happens when the wheels are coming off, games like today almost always happen to managers just before they get the boot.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Footy-Vill on October 31, 2021, 07:29:44 PM
			

			

				Well I'm disappointed that's for sure. And yes expected a bit more.
If we had the luck we would have won.
That what happens sometime things going against us
Those two shots that wee goals were nothing shot hardly registering on an expected goals front so the goals were freaky.

I concede we lost
And that the reaction was compromised to going 1-0 down after 7 minutes however we showed quality o betting it back to 1-1 
And nearly 2-2 so maybe not over 90 minutes but there were relative reaction going on to not lose the game and even win
But the fates conspired against us.

We'll see time will tell how Smith improves our fortunes it's not guaranteed of course but I'll hold some hope as can see some really good attacking play


The main issue to me is the ball possession in midfield and the defence organisation 

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on October 31, 2021, 07:31:18 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: richtheholtender on October 31, 2021, 05:45:33 PM
I don't see how we can sack him when didn't invest and others around us did. You have to spend to stay still, we made a healthy profit. Says everything 

Did everyone around us sign quality of likes of Buendia (well many of you told me he was good), Ings and Bailey?

I mean Watford I assume did bigger net spend than us but you wouldn't take what they signed and they could easily be above us in the league this time next week.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Footy-Vill on October 31, 2021, 07:31:52 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: paul_e on October 31, 2021, 07:27:07 PM
Quote from: Footy-Vill on October 31, 2021, 07:20:40 PM
I'm with Smith as he said it wasn't a 4-1 game and agreeing wasn't a 4-1 game
We and he had a lot of bad luck in that game and he made good changes to the team but it didn't totally work out 
But of Watkins header had gone in at 2-2 would have been a different story 
Similarly if there was no red card 
Dean also said team showed character as well as that we scored a good goal so there are positives in a somewhat strange match
I be interested to see how we perform and the team we put out Friday before people get carried away as that result to me was unlucky 

Bad luck is what happens when the wheels are coming off, games like today almost always happen to managers just before they get the boot.

To be fair that's often seems the way. And if such rotten luck continues and sliding into relegation zone then it's really tough 
Though I don't see our owners as knee jerk and would look to keep Dean over the long term as long as we show signs and given time to get things together 
 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Stu on October 31, 2021, 07:33:41 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: richtheholtender on October 31, 2021, 05:45:33 PM
I don't see how we can sack him when didn't invest and others around us did. You have to spend to stay still, we made a healthy profit. Says everything 

How does profit = 0 net spend, as you were saying earlier?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on October 31, 2021, 07:39:44 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Footy-Vill on October 31, 2021, 07:31:52 PM
Quote from: paul_e on October 31, 2021, 07:27:07 PM
Quote from: Footy-Vill on October 31, 2021, 07:20:40 PM
I'm with Smith as he said it wasn't a 4-1 game and agreeing wasn't a 4-1 game
We and he had a lot of bad luck in that game and he made good changes to the team but it didn't totally work out 
But of Watkins header had gone in at 2-2 would have been a different story 
Similarly if there was no red card 
Dean also said team showed character as well as that we scored a good goal so there are positives in a somewhat strange match
I be interested to see how we perform and the team we put out Friday before people get carried away as that result to me was unlucky 

Bad luck is what happens when the wheels are coming off, games like today almost always happen to managers just before they get the boot.

To be fair that's often seems the way. And if such rotten luck continues and sliding into relegation zone then it's really tough 
Though I don't see our owners as knee jerk and would look to keep Dean over the long term as long as we show signs and given time to get things together 
 

Edens sacked a manager who was his friend in a stronger position than we are right now because he thought they needed someone else to take the club on.

All along with Smith my argument has been that he'll have been given targets by the board and he's achieved them all, however I can see there being an 'after 10 games' target and I doubt it was to have lost 6 of those matches.

There's a lot of things I like about Smith, and I still think he'll prove to be the first manager we've had in years to leave the next guy with a squad they'll be mostly happy with, but I think he's pretty much done now, bad luck with injuries/covid will have played a part but that's true of almost every manager, it's just part of the job.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on October 31, 2021, 07:41:53 PM
			

			

				Agree totally Paul.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Demitri_C on October 31, 2021, 07:42:10 PM
			

			

				Smiths pist match comments jesus . He is so deluded its unbelievable 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: RamboandBruno on October 31, 2021, 08:16:49 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: paul_e on October 31, 2021, 07:39:44 PM
Quote from: Footy-Vill on October 31, 2021, 07:31:52 PM
Quote from: paul_e on October 31, 2021, 07:27:07 PM
Quote from: Footy-Vill on October 31, 2021, 07:20:40 PM
I'm with Smith as he said it wasn't a 4-1 game and agreeing wasn't a 4-1 game
We and he had a lot of bad luck in that game and he made good changes to the team but it didn't totally work out 
But of Watkins header had gone in at 2-2 would have been a different story 
Similarly if there was no red card 
Dean also said team showed character as well as that we scored a good goal so there are positives in a somewhat strange match
I be interested to see how we perform and the team we put out Friday before people get carried away as that result to me was unlucky 

Bad luck is what happens when the wheels are coming off, games like today almost always happen to managers just before they get the boot.

To be fair that's often seems the way. And if such rotten luck continues and sliding into relegation zone then it's really tough 
Though I don't see our owners as knee jerk and would look to keep Dean over the long term as long as we show signs and given time to get things together 
 

Edens sacked a manager who was his friend in a stronger position than we are right now because he thought they needed someone else to take the club on.

All along with Smith my argument has been that he'll have been given targets by the board and he's achieved them all, however I can see there being an 'after 10 games' target and I doubt it was to have lost 6 of those matches.

There's a lot of things I like about Smith, and I still think he'll prove to be the first manager we've had in years to leave the next guy with a squad they'll be mostly happy with, but I think he's pretty much done now, bad luck with injuries/covid will have played a part but that's true of almost every manager, it's just part of the job.

Sadly i think this is probably about right. 6 out of 10, without having played Liverpool or Man City is too much. I thought there was a lot of heart out there for the best part of the second half after going down to 10 men until they got their 3rd, but even at 2-1 we never felt in control of the game. Interestingly the clamour for Smith to go on here doesn’t  feel widely shared in the Holte End at least, the crowd were anxious but mostly supportive of the team and havent turned on Smith yet. But something jas to happen quickly in order for us not to be mired in a relegation scrap all season. 
Havent a clue who would take over if that decision is made
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on October 31, 2021, 08:29:11 PM
			

			

				I wasn’t at VP today and didn’t see the match. I was glad Smith moved away from 3cbs, but I wasn’t expecting Mings to be on the bench. The players have let Smith down, but he also hasn’t helped himself (sticking with 3 cbs, losing a game with 10mins to go when we’re 2-0 up, not taking lessons learned into the Arses match, his inexplicable use of Young...).
Whatever some peoples’ opinions are of Smith (and some have been absolutely embarrassing including on H&V) sadly he has contributed to where we are now and perhaps losing 2 coaches in pre-season hasn’t helped him. IMO Purslow and Lange must also take responsibility for their parts in the summer recruitment process. Purslow’s comment about bringing in 3 players to replace Hwcbn was nonsense and Lange’s recruitment has left a lot to be desired. Everybody knew midfield needed addressing even with the unmentionable in the team, but nothing was done and this has left us very short in this department. 
When apportioning blame the owners whilst looking understandably at Dean also need to look a little deeper because things don’t appear right behind the scene. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Villatillidie1982 on October 31, 2021, 08:33:05 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: RamboandBruno on October 31, 2021, 08:16:49 PM
Quote from: paul_e on October 31, 2021, 07:39:44 PM
Quote from: Footy-Vill on October 31, 2021, 07:31:52 PM
Quote from: paul_e on October 31, 2021, 07:27:07 PM
Quote from: Footy-Vill on October 31, 2021, 07:20:40 PM
I'm with Smith as he said it wasn't a 4-1 game and agreeing wasn't a 4-1 game
We and he had a lot of bad luck in that game and he made good changes to the team but it didn't totally work out 
But of Watkins header had gone in at 2-2 would have been a different story 
Similarly if there was no red card 
Dean also said team showed character as well as that we scored a good goal so there are positives in a somewhat strange match
I be interested to see how we perform and the team we put out Friday before people get carried away as that result to me was unlucky 

Bad luck is what happens when the wheels are coming off, games like today almost always happen to managers just before they get the boot.

To be fair that's often seems the way. And if such rotten luck continues and sliding into relegation zone then it's really tough 
Though I don't see our owners as knee jerk and would look to keep Dean over the long term as long as we show signs and given time to get things together 
 

Edens sacked a manager who was his friend in a stronger position than we are right now because he thought they needed someone else to take the club on.

All along with Smith my argument has been that he'll have been given targets by the board and he's achieved them all, however I can see there being an 'after 10 games' target and I doubt it was to have lost 6 of those matches.

There's a lot of things I like about Smith, and I still think he'll prove to be the first manager we've had in years to leave the next guy with a squad they'll be mostly happy with, but I think he's pretty much done now, bad luck with injuries/covid will have played a part but that's true of almost every manager, it's just part of the job.

Sadly i think this is probably about right. 6 out of 10, without having played Liverpool or Man City is too much. I thought there was a lot of heart out there for the best part of the second half after going down to 10 men until they got their 3rd, but even at 2-1 we never felt in control of the game. Interestingly the clamour for Smith to go on here doesn’t  feel widely shared in the Holte End at least, the crowd were anxious but mostly supportive of the team and havent turned on Smith yet. But something jas to happen quickly in order for us not to be mired in a relegation scrap all season. 
Havent a clue who would take over if that decision is made
Steve Bruce is looking for work 😊. But so is Frank Lampard. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Footy-Vill on October 31, 2021, 09:06:40 PM
			

			

				https://twitter.com/AVFCOfficial/status/1454892002038931458?s=20

Dean Smith 
"These players aren't short of character.  There's certainly enough character and quality in dressing room to turn things around"


			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Demitri_C on October 31, 2021, 09:08:58 PM
			

			

				Just read a stat. Smiths won 7 games in 29. How the hell is this man still in a job??
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Footy-Vill on October 31, 2021, 09:12:46 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Demitri_C on October 31, 2021, 09:08:58 PM
Just read a stat. Smiths won 7 games in 29. How the hell is this man still in a job??
The 6 losses out of 10 I would concede is a little more concerning but am still hopeful with Dean of turning around.

The longer period stat of this 7 wins 29 matches isn't really a fair context as that's over from last season which is completely different.
So not fair to comment or judge on that to me.

Judge him by this season.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Three Spires Villa on October 31, 2021, 09:25:38 PM
			

			

				But it shows a downward trajectory from last Christmas, so you can take games and performances from last season, have things got better, worse or stayed the same?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ads on October 31, 2021, 09:27:28 PM
			

			

				Pull the trigger. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on October 31, 2021, 09:27:46 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Footy-Vill on October 31, 2021, 09:12:46 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on October 31, 2021, 09:08:58 PM
Just read a stat. Smiths won 7 games in 29. How the hell is this man still in a job??
The 6 losses out of 10 I would concede is a little more concerning but am still hopeful with Dean of turning around.

The longer period stat of this 7 wins 29 matches isn't really a fair context as that's over from last season which is completely different.
So not fair to comment or judge on that to me.

Judge him by this season.

OK. This season had been a disaster, sack him now.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Ads on October 31, 2021, 09:31:25 PM
			

			

				A quarter of the way through, we're shipping goals for fun and we have morphed into a side when we attack that Pulis would have been proud of. We cannot defend, we're wretched on the midfield and we lack any structure. It's fucking appalling when you consider the money spent and the players available. 

I want him to succeed, but these losing streaks haunt him and us. We cannot carry him and its time for him to go.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Footy-Vill on October 31, 2021, 09:35:20 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Three Spires Villa on October 31, 2021, 09:25:38 PM
But it shows a downward trajectory from last Christmas, so you can take games and performances from last season, have things got better, worse or stayed the same?

I believe we beat Cheslea and Spurs our last two matches of the season
So hardly bad form going into this.
In fact showed alot of character after the debacle at Palace to bother with the last two matches that everyone thought Villa would lose.
I think that says something in some ways.
But that's not so much debate now as different squad different coaches but same head coach.

We lost to West Ham last season and we have this they clearly are a bogey side at the moment.
10pts after 10 games this season
Last season it was 18pts after 10 games so we are not doing as well as last season 

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Three Spires Villa on October 31, 2021, 09:38:58 PM
			

			

				No we are not. With the money spent and players available this squad should not be 3 points of relegation and playing this bad, it just shouldn’t be and you can try to spin it anyway you like, but Deans recent results have been poor.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: passport1 on October 31, 2021, 09:39:53 PM
			

			

				He's probably a decent Championship manager and  it is unlikely we will see him managing  in the Premiership again after Villa pull the trigger. It would be better for all concerned if he left with some dignity before things start to turn toxic.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on October 31, 2021, 09:42:02 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Ads on October 31, 2021, 09:31:25 PM
A quarter of the way through, we're shipping goals for fun and we have morphed into a side when we attack that Pulis would have been proud of. We cannot defend, we're wretched on the midfield and we lack any structure. It's fucking appalling when you consider the money spent and the players available. 

I want him to succeed, but these losing streaks haunt him and us. We cannot carry him and its time for him to go.


Hard to argue with that. I get all the arguments to keep him and I'd have been making a lot of them a few weeks back but right now the team is so disjointed that I just worry any more games he gets will either make things worse or will see a positive result that papers over the cracks for a while, I just hate seeing us look so lost.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Demitri_C on October 31, 2021, 09:45:04 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Footy-Vill on October 31, 2021, 09:12:46 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on October 31, 2021, 09:08:58 PM
Just read a stat. Smiths won 7 games in 29. How the hell is this man still in a job??
The 6 losses out of 10 I would concede is a little more concerning but am still hopeful with Dean of turning around.

The longer period stat of this 7 wins 29 matches isn't really a fair context as that's over from last season which is completely different.
So not fair to comment or judge on that to me.

Judge him by this season.

The thing is mate we shouldnt really dismiss last season as that shows he has taken poor from last year into this year. 7 wins is woeful. Relegation form.

I mean doesnt inspire much confidence he is going to turn it around ?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Footy-Vill on October 31, 2021, 09:53:49 PM
			

			

				That's a fair point but so much change has happened really difficult for Smithy.
Feel for him.
Get why some are angered by the results and performances but in bigger picture just feel he's the right man and the patience is needed.

Deano is right fit in so many ways and will bring on our quality youth players into first team.
I guess our ascent on the top 4 may take a little longer but overall can be exciting to see this squad and academy come through.

I wouldn't be so hopeful of other coaches coming in doing that whereas Smith is all about development and growing so in that respect replacing him is short termism.
Of course if there's certain targets or remits required for his position. And that certain progression hasn't been achieved either in player personnel , cup victory or league position then that's something to  be reviewed.

To me I've always thought Deano has issue with a squad based game and would use players sparingly rather than rotation he likes to have little change to his starting line up
That is something to be improved upon and probably a real challenge to understand that having never dealt with big squads before.

If Villa were to make a change then what would be required is a coach who rotates and uses a squad but I'm not yet wanting a change.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Villan82 on October 31, 2021, 10:00:29 PM
			

			

				Footy, every manager has to deal with those sort of problems. They are paid to deal with them and manage their resources in such a way as to get the results.

He is three years in the job, our third year in the top flight under him, and it is arguably the worst we have looked in those three years. That isn't acceptable. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Footy-Vill on October 31, 2021, 10:01:34 PM
			

			

				Craig Shakespeare what about him what's his influence in all this?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: markeeeebeeee2005 on October 31, 2021, 10:04:21 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Footy-Vill on October 31, 2021, 10:01:34 PM
Craig Shakespeare what about him what's his influence in all this?

Coaching the players and advising the manager who takes ultimate responsibility. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Footy-Vill on October 31, 2021, 10:05:04 PM
			

			

				Yet we all know for continuity Shakespeare will be stepping in if Dean was ousted.  Even if short term.
Is that what we want? 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: markeeeebeeee2005 on October 31, 2021, 10:07:57 PM
			

			

				Think most people just want to win games. Are you saying managers shouldn’t be replaced because if the timings don’t work out in getting a replacement the current assistant manager might have to take charge for a game? Because if you are that’s bonkers. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Footy-Vill on October 31, 2021, 10:10:37 PM
			

			

				I will just wait now for Friday 5th and Southampton away for anymore on Dean Smith 
Up the Villa.

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: BC Villain on October 31, 2021, 10:55:19 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Villan82 on October 31, 2021, 10:00:29 PM
Footy, every manager has to deal with those sort of problems. They are paid to deal with them and manage their resources in such a way as to get the results.

He is three years in the job, our third year in the top flight under him, and it is arguably the worst we have looked in those three years. That isn't acceptable.

At the moment, we look every bit as bad as we ever did under Steve Bruce - who was hammered to the point of having vegetables lobbed at him.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: curiousorange on October 31, 2021, 11:01:15 PM
			

			

				I really don't understand why as a club, we persist in giving failing managers more time than they really ought to get. How often has it led to an upturn in form? And no, I don't count the covid gap, since that was an unprecedented situation.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: RichardBatchelor on October 31, 2021, 11:02:15 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: curiousorange on October 31, 2021, 11:01:15 PM
I really don't understand why as a club, we persist in giving failing managers more time than they really ought to get. How often has it led to an upturn in form? And no, I don't count the covid gap, since that was an unprecedented situation.

But it’s 4 games. This isn’t Lambert.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on October 31, 2021, 11:03:36 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: RichardBatchelor on October 31, 2021, 11:02:15 PM
Quote from: curiousorange on October 31, 2021, 11:01:15 PM
I really don't understand why as a club, we persist in giving failing managers more time than they really ought to get. How often has it led to an upturn in form? And no, I don't count the covid gap, since that was an unprecedented situation.

But it’s 4 games. This isn’t Lambert.

If it was just four games we wouldn’t be three points off the bottom three.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: pauliewalnuts on October 31, 2021, 11:03:58 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: RichardBatchelor on October 31, 2021, 11:02:15 PM
Quote from: curiousorange on October 31, 2021, 11:01:15 PM
I really don't understand why as a club, we persist in giving failing managers more time than they really ought to get. How often has it led to an upturn in form? And no, I don't count the covid gap, since that was an unprecedented situation.

But it’s 4 games. This isn’t Lambert.

It’s ten games after which we are 15th. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Monty on October 31, 2021, 11:06:42 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on October 31, 2021, 11:03:58 PM
Quote from: RichardBatchelor on October 31, 2021, 11:02:15 PM
Quote from: curiousorange on October 31, 2021, 11:01:15 PM
I really don't understand why as a club, we persist in giving failing managers more time than they really ought to get. How often has it led to an upturn in form? And no, I don't count the covid gap, since that was an unprecedented situation.

But it’s 4 games. This isn’t Lambert.

It’s ten games after which we are 15th. 

More than a quarter of the season. Not great.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ozzjim on October 31, 2021, 11:07:45 PM
			

			

				And it's something like 39 games and 38 points without Joe since he's been here. Since new year we have been awful, not just the last 4 games. This is almost a year of poor form hidden by 3-4 eye catching scalps. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: SoccerHQ on October 31, 2021, 11:18:23 PM
			

			

				Let's say we give him Southampton. And then Palace and Brighton.

We could easily just get 1 point from 3 as Southampton have taken 7 points from last 9 and usually give us really tough games whatever the form. Brighton actually gone longer without a win in prem than we have but came from 2-0 down to get draw v Liverpool and also drew 0-0 with Arsenal and Palace starting to get results their play deserves.

We then sack him start of December with us in bottom 3. New manager then gets all of of Man. City, Leicester and Liverpool as his first 3 games so real danger we get no managerial bounce whatsoever.

I think we'll have to make a decision even if we grind out a point at Southampton otherwise we're pretty much writing off half a season and it's little more than relegation scrap.

Norwich are already gone so it's important to get a decent gap remaining over Newcastle before they sign half a new team in January.

3rd spot looks pretty open as Burnley are the type that usually go on a decent run once they win a game and likes of Leeds and Southampton are on good runs now.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: KRS on October 31, 2021, 11:55:54 PM
			

			

				I don’t see history repeating itself, but wasn’t the last time we played Southampton away following West Ham at home, that horrid 6-1 battering before the Arsenal cup final?

Anyways, I said it a week or so ago and my point stands…if the ambition of the owners is to remain as a mid table club with the occasional cup run then by all means stick with DS; if the ambition of the owners is to get us in to Europe then get rid as DS simply isn’t a good enough manager to get us there unfortunately.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Big Ming on November 01, 2021, 06:40:14 AM
			

			

				Is it too soon to send for Big Sam?

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: sid1964 on November 01, 2021, 07:01:52 AM
			

			

				I watched Smith yesterday and he must have had 4 of his coaching team talking to him all at the same time, it seems to me that he is being influenced by others when he should be making all the decisions during the game.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Mortimer's Bear on November 01, 2021, 07:16:24 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: sid1964 on November 01, 2021, 07:01:52 AM
I watched Smith yesterday and he must have had 4 of his coaching team talking to him all at the same time, it seems to me that he is being influenced by others when he should be making all the decisions during the game.

I noticed that too, surely it can't b helping him.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Footy-Vill on November 01, 2021, 07:24:59 AM
			

			

				Dean allows that . Likes others to give an input.
Unfortunately it could be that these new coaches are struggling to impact the way JT and O'Kelly were.
And that maybe they have more to say 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on November 01, 2021, 08:29:11 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on October 31, 2021, 09:27:46 PM
Quote from: Footy-Vill on October 31, 2021, 09:12:46 PM
Quote from: Demitri_C on October 31, 2021, 09:08:58 PM
Just read a stat. Smiths won 7 games in 29. How the hell is this man still in a job??
The 6 losses out of 10 I would concede is a little more concerning but am still hopeful with Dean of turning around.

The longer period stat of this 7 wins 29 matches isn't really a fair context as that's over from last season which is completely different.
So not fair to comment or judge on that to me.

Judge him by this season.

OK. This season had been a disaster, sack him now.

Well quite. If it weren't for his previous record he'd be in the same place as Nuno at Spurs. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: DB on November 01, 2021, 10:13:10 AM
			

			

				Lose next one and that should be it for him.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on November 01, 2021, 10:18:38 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: DB on November 01, 2021, 10:13:10 AM
Lose next one and that should be it for him.

It should be it for him now.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Footy-Vill on November 01, 2021, 11:47:06 AM
			

			

				I'll lose hope in Smith if we end up shoving one of the centre halves up front.
There's a breaking pont for us all.
I one for football and skills and quite frankly the throws are not needed clearly its not Dean Smith idea and his liberal leading and allowing coaches to implement methods is causing Smith issues.
I doubt he wanted the 3 at the back and would fanthom Shakespeare is the catalyst for that one so really Deano not being helped by these coaches around him.

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on November 01, 2021, 11:51:34 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Footy-Vill on November 01, 2021, 11:47:06 AM
I'll lose hope in Smith if we end up shoving one of the centre halves up front.
There's a breaking pont for us all.
I one for football and skills and quite frankly the throws are not needed clearly its not Dean Smith idea and his liberal leading and allowing coaches to implement methods is causing Smith issues.
I doubt he wanted the 3 at the back and would fanthom Shakespeare is the catalyst for that one so really Deano not being helped by these coaches around him.



He needs to overrule his subordinates then, mate.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: brontebilly on November 01, 2021, 11:58:39 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on November 01, 2021, 10:18:38 AM
Quote from: DB on November 01, 2021, 10:13:10 AM
Lose next one and that should be it for him.

It should be it for him now.

It should be but to be fair...a lot has gone wrong of late including yesterday with Martinez, Ramsey's injury, covid again

It usually happens managers at the end but they start panicking and doubting themselves. Young for Ramsey was a panic decision, Young was terrible v Brentford in a midfield three so that was never going to work. Despite Villa Park probably going into meltdown, the pragmatic decision there would have been to bring Mings in and switching to a 5.  Could have then looked to switch Young in for Targett as a LWB later in the game.

Arguably taking off Buendia instead of Bailey was another poor one. Bailey vindicated Smith's comments pre game that he wasn't fully fit with his performance. Buendia wasn't great but did have an assist. Smith was forced to take off Bailey anyway soon enough afterwards as he was gassed. Again supporters wouldn't have been happy with Bailey being hooked at the time but I think Deano doubted himself on it so took the easier option.

It's a really tough one for Smith on Friday night. Targett and Hause both lost their minds late on yesterday, Buendia acting up again, Bailey clearly not fully fit. More covid problems, Ramsey injured, other players injured with muscle injuries (sign of a shambolic pre season for me).

We can only hope Mings gives his all this week at training and tries to pull the players together. Hope Luiz and Sanson are fit. 433 again and go out fighting for the manager that gave loads of them their big chance in this division. I really hope we don't have a shambolic last stand like Lambert in the rain at Hull as Smith doesn't deserve that. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Footy-Vill on November 01, 2021, 12:02:34 PM
			

			

				Bailey stayed on so he could get our team up the pitch with his pace.
An option as a out ball
An attacking threat 
And as we discover he's one of the long throw specialists in loose terms
That made sense to me to keep him on 

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on November 01, 2021, 12:02:45 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Footy-Vill on November 01, 2021, 11:47:06 AM
I'll lose hope in Smith if we end up shoving one of the centre halves up front.
There's a breaking pont for us all.
I one for football and skills and quite frankly the throws are not needed clearly its not Dean Smith idea and his liberal leading and allowing coaches to implement methods is causing Smith issues.
I doubt he wanted the 3 at the back and would fanthom Shakespeare is the catalyst for that one so really Deano not being helped by these coaches around him.

So who is making these decisions then, has Smith been body snatched by Dave Bassett?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Footy-Vill on November 01, 2021, 12:04:58 PM
			

			

				Have to factor in for all Deans emotional control being a fan and supporters of the club he managers can also hinder as much as help

Thinking in as much as he wants to do well so much and is having impact  badly 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Mister E on November 01, 2021, 12:06:23 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Footy-Vill on November 01, 2021, 12:02:34 PM
Bailey stayed on so he could get our team up the pitch with his pace.
An option as a out ball
An attacking threat 
And as we discover he's one of the long throw specialists in loose terms
That made sense to me to keep him on 
The way Bailey was seemingly advised to play yesterday meant that his influence was limited: stuck out on the left winger meant he was very easy to mark. He should have been given a roving role where his close control and pace might have had more impact.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on November 01, 2021, 12:07:47 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Footy-Vill on November 01, 2021, 12:04:58 PM
Have to factor in for all Deans emotional control being a fan and supporters of the club he managers can also hinder as much as help

Thinking in as much as he wants to do well so much and is having impact  badly
On that basis we can allow Smith to carry on regardless.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: VinnieChase84 on November 01, 2021, 12:13:21 PM
			

			

				Was having a very decent chat with some fans at HT yesterday in concourse. For me its pretty simple. Players have a ceiling to their ability. You have players to get you promoted, some to keep you in the league then you need better to elevate that further. This applies to managers as well. The bigger our squad gets, the more vast it gets with bigger players the more he looks lost. I love the bloke and for what hes done for us i will always have fond memories of him. I dont want that feeling to be tarnished further if he sticks in and it turns more sour. For me its time for a parting of ways and we both move on.

Question that also came up is this. Name one manager whose left us and gone onto a bigger job? Not happened since GT! Surely that says something 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Villan82 on November 01, 2021, 12:30:20 PM
			

			

				I have said it a few times but for me it is the defeats that raise doubts about Smith. Many usually retort 'draws are no good'. But that is nonsense. Since coming up to the top flight we have lost a high percentage of games each year. I wish we could dig out a point more often. We are left empty handed too often with Smith. I still can't believe we lost the Wolves game from being 2-0 up with ten minutes left. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on November 01, 2021, 12:35:20 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on November 01, 2021, 12:13:21 PM
Was having a very decent chat with some fans at HT yesterday in concourse. For me its pretty simple. Players have a ceiling to their ability. You have players to get you promoted, some to keep you in the league then you need better to elevate that further. This applies to managers as well. The bigger our squad gets, the more vast it gets with bigger players the more he looks lost. I love the bloke and for what hes done for us i will always have fond memories of him. I dont want that feeling to be tarnished further if he sticks in and it turns more sour. For me its time for a parting of ways and we both move on.

Question that also came up is this. Name one manager whose left us and gone onto a bigger job? Not happened since GT! Surely that says something 

It says that we have appointed some right piss poor managers 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: LeeB on November 01, 2021, 12:39:41 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: john e on November 01, 2021, 12:35:20 PM
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on November 01, 2021, 12:13:21 PM
Was having a very decent chat with some fans at HT yesterday in concourse. For me its pretty simple. Players have a ceiling to their ability. You have players to get you promoted, some to keep you in the league then you need better to elevate that further. This applies to managers as well. The bigger our squad gets, the more vast it gets with bigger players the more he looks lost. I love the bloke and for what hes done for us i will always have fond memories of him. I dont want that feeling to be tarnished further if he sticks in and it turns more sour. For me its time for a parting of ways and we both move on.

Question that also came up is this. Name one manager whose left us and gone onto a bigger job? Not happened since GT! Surely that says something 

It says that we have appointed some right piss poor managers 

Yes, and it's why I'm reluctant to get shot now.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: VinnieChase84 on November 01, 2021, 12:41:07 PM
			

			

				Smith WAS the right manager choice for NSWE/CP. So they have a 1/1 apt record so maybe we should have some faith they get 2/2 spot on 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on November 01, 2021, 12:44:02 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: LeeB on November 01, 2021, 12:39:41 PM
Quote from: john e on November 01, 2021, 12:35:20 PM
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on November 01, 2021, 12:13:21 PM
Was having a very decent chat with some fans at HT yesterday in concourse. For me its pretty simple. Players have a ceiling to their ability. You have players to get you promoted, some to keep you in the league then you need better to elevate that further. This applies to managers as well. The bigger our squad gets, the more vast it gets with bigger players the more he looks lost. I love the bloke and for what hes done for us i will always have fond memories of him. I dont want that feeling to be tarnished further if he sticks in and it turns more sour. For me its time for a parting of ways and we both move on.

Question that also came up is this. Name one manager whose left us and gone onto a bigger job? Not happened since GT! Surely that says something 

It says that we have appointed some right piss poor managers 

Yes, and it's why I'm reluctant to get shot now.

Completely different circumstances. We’ve got “money almost no object” owners for the first time. We had the last few years of Doug getting more and more left behind by much richer owners, then Lerner gave it a go at the start, but wasted it on O’Neill and soon ran out of free cash. Then obviously we had the disaster that was Xia. If we accept that Edens and Sawiris have hardly put a foot wrong since they arrived, then why do you think they wouldn’t be capable of replacing Smith?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: VinnieChase84 on November 01, 2021, 12:45:42 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: RichardBatchelor on October 31, 2021, 11:02:15 PM
Quote from: curiousorange on October 31, 2021, 11:01:15 PM
I really don't understand why as a club, we persist in giving failing managers more time than they really ought to get. How often has it led to an upturn in form? And no, I don't count the covid gap, since that was an unprecedented situation.

But it’s 4 games. This isn’t Lambert.

39 points from 102 available
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: chrisw1 on November 01, 2021, 12:54:01 PM
			

			

				If he's going after Southamption anyway I'd get rid now to see if we can get a reaction from the players on Friday and then appoint someone over the break.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: brontebilly on November 01, 2021, 01:03:32 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on November 01, 2021, 12:13:21 PM
Was having a very decent chat with some fans at HT yesterday in concourse. For me its pretty simple. Players have a ceiling to their ability. You have players to get you promoted, some to keep you in the league then you need better to elevate that further. This applies to managers as well. The bigger our squad gets, the more vast it gets with bigger players the more he looks lost. I love the bloke and for what hes done for us i will always have fond memories of him. I dont want that feeling to be tarnished further if he sticks in and it turns more sour. For me its time for a parting of ways and we both move on.

Question that also came up is this. Name one manager whose left us and gone onto a bigger job? Not happened since GT! Surely that says something

We have been a career killer for most of our previous managers. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Richard E on November 01, 2021, 01:06:47 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on November 01, 2021, 12:13:21 PM
Was having a very decent chat with some fans at HT yesterday in concourse. For me its pretty simple. Players have a ceiling to their ability. You have players to get you promoted, some to keep you in the league then you need better to elevate that further. This applies to managers as well. The bigger our squad gets, the more vast it gets with bigger players the more he looks lost. I love the bloke and for what hes done for us i will always have fond memories of him. I dont want that feeling to be tarnished further if he sticks in and it turns more sour. For me its time for a parting of ways and we both move on.

Question that also came up is this. Name one manager whose left us and gone onto a bigger job? Not happened since GT! Surely that says something 

It's because there aren't any bigger jobs than managing the greatest football club the world has ever known and will know! 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Footy-Vill on November 01, 2021, 01:40:04 PM
			

			

				AVFC Transfers & News
@ITKAstonVilla


"NSWE STILL BACK Smith (as of now). The next three “easier” games are his last chance to turn around the form. Fail to do this and he will face the sack. Owners want to back Smith until it’s simply deemed impossible"

On Saturday day before Villa game  same account said:
"Tyrone Mings has been DROPPED from tomorrow’s starting XI. On further note Danny Ings will not make the team (hamstring), neither will Douglas Luiz"

Credible source by looks of things 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Drummond on November 01, 2021, 02:01:21 PM
			

			

				Preece has made a similar comment I believe.

I think Friday is the game that will decide. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: cdbearsfan on November 01, 2021, 02:11:15 PM
			

			

				If we are looking at getting rid, it would be madness to wait until the easier games are out of the way and give the new incumbent Man City, Leicester and Liverpool as his opening matches. In any case, the international break provides an obvious sacking window. Getting shot of him in December where you play a game roughly every twenty minutes would lead to a very awkward transition.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: algy on November 01, 2021, 02:13:11 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: brontebilly on November 01, 2021, 01:03:32 PM
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on November 01, 2021, 12:13:21 PM
Was having a very decent chat with some fans at HT yesterday in concourse. For me its pretty simple. Players have a ceiling to their ability. You have players to get you promoted, some to keep you in the league then you need better to elevate that further. This applies to managers as well. The bigger our squad gets, the more vast it gets with bigger players the more he looks lost. I love the bloke and for what hes done for us i will always have fond memories of him. I dont want that feeling to be tarnished further if he sticks in and it turns more sour. For me its time for a parting of ways and we both move on.

Question that also came up is this. Name one manager whose left us and gone onto a bigger job? Not happened since GT! Surely that says something

We have been a career killer for most of our previous managers.
I think it's that Villa is a very, very tough gig.  We're the biggest club in the region by far, covering a huge geographic radius that arguably stretches up to Stoke and down to Gloucester/Cheltenham.  That comes with expectations to match - to be successful at Villa, you need to put trophies in the cabinet.  Simple as that.  Anyone who doesn't win stuff, ain't going to get a job at a club of a similar stature, since clubs of a similar stature also demand trophies.

If you are a success and win stuff, there's not really any clubs 'above' Villa in the pecking order, since they'd by definition not be winning stuff.

And that's basically why IMO you don't get many managers go on to bigger things than Villa.  Aside from SGT, I'm not sure I can think of another in our history ... Joe Mercer, perhaps?  That's about it.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: dave.woodhall on November 01, 2021, 02:32:06 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: algy on November 01, 2021, 02:13:11 PM
Quote from: brontebilly on November 01, 2021, 01:03:32 PM
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on November 01, 2021, 12:13:21 PM
Was having a very decent chat with some fans at HT yesterday in concourse. For me its pretty simple. Players have a ceiling to their ability. You have players to get you promoted, some to keep you in the league then you need better to elevate that further. This applies to managers as well. The bigger our squad gets, the more vast it gets with bigger players the more he looks lost. I love the bloke and for what hes done for us i will always have fond memories of him. I dont want that feeling to be tarnished further if he sticks in and it turns more sour. For me its time for a parting of ways and we both move on.

Question that also came up is this. Name one manager whose left us and gone onto a bigger job? Not happened since GT! Surely that says something

We have been a career killer for most of our previous managers.
I think it's that Villa is a very, very tough gig.  We're the biggest club in the region by far, covering a huge geographic radius that arguably stretches up to Stoke and down to Gloucester/Cheltenham.  That comes with expectations to match - to be successful at Villa, you need to put trophies in the cabinet.  Simple as that.  Anyone who doesn't win stuff, ain't going to get a job at a club of a similar stature, since clubs of a similar stature also demand trophies.

If you are a success and win stuff, there's not really any clubs 'above' Villa in the pecking order, since they'd by definition not be winning stuff.

And that's basically why IMO you don't get many managers go on to bigger things than Villa.  Aside from SGT, I'm not sure I can think of another in our history ... Joe Mercer, perhaps?  That's about it.

Tommy Docherty, eventually. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on November 01, 2021, 02:35:10 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on November 01, 2021, 02:11:15 PM
If we are looking at getting rid, it would be madness to wait until the easier games are out of the way and give the new incumbent Man City, Leicester and Liverpool as his opening matches. In any case, the international break provides an obvious sacking window. Getting shot of him in December where you play a game roughly every twenty minutes would lead to a very awkward transition.
agreed.

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: brontebilly on November 01, 2021, 02:46:52 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: algy on November 01, 2021, 02:13:11 PM
Quote from: brontebilly on November 01, 2021, 01:03:32 PM
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on November 01, 2021, 12:13:21 PM
Was having a very decent chat with some fans at HT yesterday in concourse. For me its pretty simple. Players have a ceiling to their ability. You have players to get you promoted, some to keep you in the league then you need better to elevate that further. This applies to managers as well. The bigger our squad gets, the more vast it gets with bigger players the more he looks lost. I love the bloke and for what hes done for us i will always have fond memories of him. I dont want that feeling to be tarnished further if he sticks in and it turns more sour. For me its time for a parting of ways and we both move on.

Question that also came up is this. Name one manager whose left us and gone onto a bigger job? Not happened since GT! Surely that says something

We have been a career killer for most of our previous managers.
I think it's that Villa is a very, very tough gig.  We're the biggest club in the region by far, covering a huge geographic radius that arguably stretches up to Stoke and down to Gloucester/Cheltenham.  That comes with expectations to match - to be successful at Villa, you need to put trophies in the cabinet.  Simple as that.  Anyone who doesn't win stuff, ain't going to get a job at a club of a similar stature, since clubs of a similar stature also demand trophies.

If you are a success and win stuff, there's not really any clubs 'above' Villa in the pecking order, since they'd by definition not be winning stuff.

And that's basically why IMO you don't get many managers go on to bigger things than Villa.  Aside from SGT, I'm not sure I can think of another in our history ... Joe Mercer, perhaps?  That's about it.

I know but....some of them are completely broken by the Villa experience, or their CVs are at any rate

DOL...came to us with a very good rep, one nightmare last season that exposed him as a treacherous pr*ck but hasn't got even a sniff of an EPL gig since 
MON - 3 x 6th placed finishes but only gets Sunderland after us which went badly and finished now
Lambert - back to back promotions at Norwich, a shell of a man by the end of his time with us and a jobbing lower league coach these days
Little, BFR, JG - never managed any club of consequence again
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Jon Crofts on November 01, 2021, 02:50:37 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Footy-Vill on November 01, 2021, 01:40:04 PM
AVFC Transfers & News
@ITKAstonVilla


"NSWE STILL BACK Smith (as of now). The next three “easier” games are his last chance to turn around the form. Fail to do this and he will face the sack. Owners want to back Smith until it’s simply deemed impossible"

On Saturday day before Villa game  same account said:
"Tyrone Mings has been DROPPED from tomorrow’s starting XI. On further note Danny Ings will not make the team (hamstring), neither will Douglas Luiz"

Credible source by looks of things 

Who the week before said Bailey would start against Arsenal.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Mister E on November 01, 2021, 02:51:12 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: ChicagoLion on November 01, 2021, 02:35:10 PM
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on November 01, 2021, 02:11:15 PM
If we are looking at getting rid, it would be madness to wait until the easier games are out of the way and give the new incumbent Man City, Leicester and Liverpool as his opening matches. In any case, the international break provides an obvious sacking window. Getting shot of him in December where you play a game roughly every twenty minutes would lead to a very awkward transition.
agreed.
These 'easier games': On current form, I don't fancy any one of them, to be honest!
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: andyh on November 01, 2021, 02:55:30 PM
			

			

				And does he get all 3 easy games before potentially getting the bullet?
Does he need to get a certain number of points out of the 3 games to keep his job, and if he loses the first game can he still reach that points requirement?

So many questions.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: paul_e on November 01, 2021, 03:03:19 PM
			

			

				I never believe the "x games to save his job" rumours becase there are always too many questions over what it really means.

Making a decision after the next game makes a lot more sense.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: aj2k77 on November 01, 2021, 03:05:52 PM
			

			

				We've been on a poor run for 36 games. What changes if we win a couple now? Surely the limitations have been bared for all to see. Again, we fiddle around when it comes to managers.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on November 01, 2021, 03:19:58 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: aj2k77 on November 01, 2021, 03:05:52 PM
We've been on a poor run for 36 games. What changes if we win a couple now? Surely the limitations have been bared for all to see. Again, we fiddle around when it comes to managers.

Agreed. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: PaulWinch again on November 01, 2021, 03:40:00 PM
			

			

				Granted we don’t know what’s happening in the board room, but with a few historical exceptions I think once you’re down to “he’s got a couple of games to save his job” then you should pull the trigger. At the point surely you’re dissatisfied with the direction of travel - what’s a couple of games going to tell you? Not a whole lot. This calendar year we’ve been really poor and there’s been more than enough time to correct it.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: sickbeggar on November 01, 2021, 03:49:20 PM
			

			

				Still can't see a new guy waving his wand over that midfield and magically transforming it into anything, so lets hope if they decide to sack him they employ someone with some clout who can get some money out of them in January. A side not struck down with injuries every other week would help too.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: chrisw1 on November 01, 2021, 04:33:34 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Risso on November 01, 2021, 03:19:58 PM
Quote from: aj2k77 on November 01, 2021, 03:05:52 PM
We've been on a poor run for 36 games. What changes if we win a couple now? Surely the limitations have been bared for all to see. Again, we fiddle around when it comes to managers.

Agreed. 
Also agreed, sadly.  Wish he'd had a bit more luck this season and had been able to play his best team, but it now feels we're beyond the point of no return. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: TonyD on November 01, 2021, 04:49:01 PM
			

			

				Who ever is in charge in January needs to buy 2 more midfielders maybe 3 with our injuries.  
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: curiousorange on November 01, 2021, 04:54:57 PM
			

			

				Regrettably, we're shopping in different stores now, but you've got to applaud Spuds binning Nuno and bringing in Conte, without even having to be linked to Gerrard, Lampard and Howe first.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Beard82 on November 01, 2021, 05:02:37 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: PaulWinch again on November 01, 2021, 03:40:00 PM
Granted we don’t know what’s happening in the board room, but with a few historical exceptions I think once you’re down to “he’s got a couple of games to save his job” then you should pull the trigger. At the point surely you’re dissatisfied with the direction of travel - what’s a couple of games going to tell you? Not a whole lot. This calendar year we’ve been really poor and there’s been more than enough time to correct it.
I know what you're saying - but I guess, and in this case in particular, he has some really good attributes - and maybe they want to give him a last chance to turn it round, as he has done it on at least 2 occasions before. 

IMO, I think he's gone - as I have said before, something just isn't right and hasn't been since Joe left.

I know its very Villa to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, but the way the wheels have fallen of since the end of the super is impressive

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Rico on November 01, 2021, 05:36:13 PM
			

			

				It feels to me that something behind the scenes has gone badly wrong. I mean benching the club captain would have seemed unthinkable a few games ago, and Sansom's water bottle incident has stoked the fires of unrest. Pre-season was such a mess, and trusted coaches departing in quick succession hasn't helped matters. It's going to be tough for Dean to turn this around. Personally I don't think he will.(I hope that he does).Results without Grealish suggest that can't win enough games. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: TelfordVilla on November 01, 2021, 05:58:58 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Rico on November 01, 2021, 05:36:13 PM
It feels to me that something behind the scenes has gone badly wrong. I mean benching the club captain would have seemed unthinkable a few games ago, and Sansom's water bottle incident has stoked the fires of unrest. Pre-season was such a mess, and trusted coaches departing in quick succession hasn't helped matters. It's going to be tough for Dean to turn this around. Personally I don't think he will.(I hope that he does).Results without Grealish suggest that can't win enough games. 
 So how does sacking the manager help? does that bring greasey joe back ? It wont reverse the pre season cock up or the turn over of back room staff. It will just bring more uncertainty.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: LukeJames on November 01, 2021, 06:00:39 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on November 01, 2021, 02:11:15 PM
If we are looking at getting rid, it would be madness to wait until the easier games are out of the way and give the new incumbent Man City, Leicester and Liverpool as his opening matches. 

Ive got nothing to back this up but it seems like this happens quite regularly with sacked managers. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Three Spires Villa on November 01, 2021, 06:06:23 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: TelfordVilla on November 01, 2021, 05:58:58 PM
Quote from: Rico on November 01, 2021, 05:36:13 PM
It feels to me that something behind the scenes has gone badly wrong. I mean benching the club captain would have seemed unthinkable a few games ago, and Sansom's water bottle incident has stoked the fires of unrest. Pre-season was such a mess, and trusted coaches departing in quick succession hasn't helped matters. It's going to be tough for Dean to turn this around. Personally I don't think he will.(I hope that he does).Results without Grealish suggest that can't win enough games. 
 So how does sacking the manager help? does that bring greasey joe back ? It wont reverse the pre season cock up or the turn over of back room staff. It will just bring more uncertainty.

Maybe a better manager?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: curiousorange on November 01, 2021, 06:10:00 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: TelfordVilla on November 01, 2021, 05:58:58 PM
Quote from: Rico on November 01, 2021, 05:36:13 PM
It feels to me that something behind the scenes has gone badly wrong. I mean benching the club captain would have seemed unthinkable a few games ago, and Sansom's water bottle incident has stoked the fires of unrest. Pre-season was such a mess, and trusted coaches departing in quick succession hasn't helped matters. It's going to be tough for Dean to turn this around. Personally I don't think he will.(I hope that he does).Results without Grealish suggest that can't win enough games. 
 So how does sacking the manager help? does that bring greasey joe back ? It wont reverse the pre season cock up or the turn over of back room staff. It will just bring more uncertainty.

It does bring uncertainty, but managers usually come with a backroom staff, which helps continuity somewhat. Grealish isn't coming back, no, but a new start draws a line under the flux of a failing managership. Most players, I'd imagine, want fairly simple structure to their career: manager who knows what they want, offer them a defined role and a way to maximise their potential. No sleight on Smith, he's just got a squad that isn't what he wanted it to be, and he's the most expendable asset.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: TelfordVilla on November 01, 2021, 06:18:23 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: curiousorange on November 01, 2021, 06:10:00 PM
Quote from: TelfordVilla on November 01, 2021, 05:58:58 PM
Quote from: Rico on November 01, 2021, 05:36:13 PM
It feels to me that something behind the scenes has gone badly wrong. I mean benching the club captain would have seemed unthinkable a few games ago, and Sansom's water bottle incident has stoked the fires of unrest. Pre-season was such a mess, and trusted coaches departing in quick succession hasn't helped matters. It's going to be tough for Dean to turn this around. Personally I don't think he will.(I hope that he does).Results without Grealish suggest that can't win enough games. 
 So how does sacking the manager help? does that bring greasey joe back ? It wont reverse the pre season cock up or the turn over of back room staff. It will just bring more uncertainty.

It does bring uncertainty, but managers usually come with a backroom staff, which helps continuity somewhat. Grealish isn't coming back, no, but a new start draws a line under the flux of a failing managership. Most players, I'd imagine, want fairly simple structure to their career: manager who knows what they want, offer them a defined role and a way to maximise their potential. No sleight on Smith, he's just got a squad that isn't what he wanted it to be, and he's the most expendable asset.
 Having spent months praising the improvement in Konsa and Watkins etc due to their work with the current coaching staff, we now decide, after 4 (unfortunate) losses, that the players prefer simple instructions and guidance rather than developing and improving. Not the coaches fault then. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: curiousorange on November 01, 2021, 06:28:36 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: TelfordVilla on November 01, 2021, 06:18:23 PM
Quote from: curiousorange on November 01, 2021, 06:10:00 PM
Quote from: TelfordVilla on November 01, 2021, 05:58:58 PM
Quote from: Rico on November 01, 2021, 05:36:13 PM
It feels to me that something behind the scenes has gone badly wrong. I mean benching the club captain would have seemed unthinkable a few games ago, and Sansom's water bottle incident has stoked the fires of unrest. Pre-season was such a mess, and trusted coaches departing in quick succession hasn't helped matters. It's going to be tough for Dean to turn this around. Personally I don't think he will.(I hope that he does).Results without Grealish suggest that can't win enough games. 
 So how does sacking the manager help? does that bring greasey joe back ? It wont reverse the pre season cock up or the turn over of back room staff. It will just bring more uncertainty.

It does bring uncertainty, but managers usually come with a backroom staff, which helps continuity somewhat. Grealish isn't coming back, no, but a new start draws a line under the flux of a failing managership. Most players, I'd imagine, want fairly simple structure to their career: manager who knows what they want, offer them a defined role and a way to maximise their potential. No sleight on Smith, he's just got a squad that isn't what he wanted it to be, and he's the most expendable asset.
 Having spent months praising the improvement in Konsa and Watkins etc due to their work with the current coaching staff, we now decide, after 4 (unfortunate) losses, that the players prefer simple instructions and guidance rather than developing and improving. Not the coaches fault then.

I don't think anybody's 'decided' that. I was suggesting that the changes to the squad (and coaching team) have resulted in an impasse, where previously content players don't understand what they're meant to be aiming for now, and new additions haven't slotted in as hoped. It's on the coaches as much as the players.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Three Spires Villa on November 01, 2021, 06:29:45 PM
			

			

				It’s not just 4 games though. The numbers are available, the poor form has been for a colander year and I think it’s 7 wins in 30. If I’m wrong please let me know and 19 goals against already this season. That’s as bad as the season we can up. The defence was strong last season, but Dean messed about to shoe horn Watkins and Ings! As pointed out earlier if it was just 4 games this debate wouldn’t be happening.

Maybe people think that 15th and 3 points off relegation with this squad (every team has injuries and good and bad luck) is good, I’m not so sure it is.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Beard82 on November 01, 2021, 06:30:17 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: curiousorange on November 01, 2021, 06:10:00 PM
Quote from: TelfordVilla on November 01, 2021, 05:58:58 PM
Quote from: Rico on November 01, 2021, 05:36:13 PM
It feels to me that something behind the scenes has gone badly wrong. I mean benching the club captain would have seemed unthinkable a few games ago, and Sansom's water bottle incident has stoked the fires of unrest. Pre-season was such a mess, and trusted coaches departing in quick succession hasn't helped matters. It's going to be tough for Dean to turn this around. Personally I don't think he will.(I hope that he does).Results without Grealish suggest that can't win enough games. 
 So how does sacking the manager help? does that bring greasey joe back ? It wont reverse the pre season cock up or the turn over of back room staff. It will just bring more uncertainty.

It does bring uncertainty, but managers usually come with a backroom staff, which helps continuity somewhat. Grealish isn't coming back, no, but a new start draws a line under the flux of a failing managership. Most players, I'd imagine, want fairly simple structure to their career: manager who knows what they want, offer them a defined role and a way to maximise their potential. No sleight on Smith, he's just got a squad that isn't what he wanted it to be, and he's the most expendable asset.
Surely some of it also depend on how culpable Smith is for the summer shit storm. My view is that this summer there wasnt as much of a shared view about how to move forward.  I think the players we got weren’t necessary deans preferred targets - and I think Sanson surely isn’t.  So I guess a new manger might align stuff better 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on November 01, 2021, 06:35:28 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on November 01, 2021, 12:41:07 PM
Smith WAS the right manager choice for NSWE/CP. So they have a 1/1 apt record so maybe we should have some faith they get 2/2 spot on 


I’m not convinced about that

No one can accuse me of being a Dean Smith apologist I have criticised him plenty in the past
In fact I was probably in the Vanguard as I don’t believe the last two seasons he has achieved what he set out to
The first season back when we stayed up by the skin of our teeth was a piss poor year with piss poor Football and last season I think we should have finished top half
For me the last two seasons haven’t been good enough

But I will be worried if we just sack Smith now
Especially if we have no real idea of who will take over and it’s a rush around to see who is available

I also don’t trust Purslow I see him as more like Levy he will want someone malleable
I don’t mind him as a CEO he talks well but I’m not sure about his judgement on managers
The owners won’t have an encyclopedic knowledge of Managers operating around the world and will leave it to CS

The time might well come when Dean Smith’s position is untenable but unless there is a really good fit a top manager or Highly rated up-and-coming manager I would hold off for now

I also think injuries have been horrendous
He has made mistakes some big ones in formations and stuff but so far he has had one hand tied behind his back this season
Although I agree it shouldn’t be based just on the last 10 games it should be based on the last 30 and that does not make good reading

But I would stick rather than twist right now
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on November 01, 2021, 06:39:16 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: sickbeggar on November 01, 2021, 03:49:20 PM
Still can't see a new guy waving his wand over that midfield and magically transforming it into anything, so lets hope if they decide to sack him they employ someone with some clout who can get some money out of them in January. A side not struck down with injuries every other week would help too.

We’ve had a massive injury list

Our midfielders are McGinn Luiz Ramsey Sanson Nakamba
With some good youngsters coming through
I think that’s a pretty good bunch of midfield players when they are fit


			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: curiousorange on November 01, 2021, 06:58:31 PM
			

			

				Think it was Matt Law in the Telegraph who mentioned yesterday that until McGinn is Villa's third or fourth best midfielder, we won't get any further.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: john e on November 01, 2021, 07:00:06 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: curiousorange on November 01, 2021, 06:58:31 PM
Think it was Matt Law in the Telegraph who mentioned yesterday that until McGinn is Villa's third or fourth best midfielder, we won't get any further.

Matt law must be a twat then 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: TelfordVilla on November 01, 2021, 07:00:51 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: john e on November 01, 2021, 06:35:28 PM
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on November 01, 2021, 12:41:07 PM
Smith WAS the right manager choice for NSWE/CP. So they have a 1/1 apt record so maybe we should have some faith they get 2/2 spot on 


I’m not convinced about that

No one can accuse me of being a Dean Smith apologist I have criticised him plenty in the past
In fact I was probably in the Vanguard as I don’t believe the last two seasons he has achieved what he set out to
The first season back when we stayed up by the skin of our teeth was a piss poor year with piss poor Football and last season I think we should have finished top half
For me the last two seasons haven’t been good enough

But I will be worried if we just sack Smith now
Especially if we have no real idea of who will take over and it’s a rush around to see who is available

I also don’t trust Purslow I see him as more like Levy he will want someone malleable
I don’t mind him as a CEO he talks well but I’m not sure about his judgement on managers
The owners won’t have an encyclopedic knowledge of Managers operating around the world and will leave it to CS

The time might well come when Dean Smith’s position is untenable but unless there is a really good fit a top manager or Highly rated up-and-coming manager I would hold off for now

I also think injuries have been horrendous
He has made mistakes some big ones in formations and stuff but so far he has had one hand tied behind his back this season
Although I agree it shouldn’t be based just on the last 10 games it should be based on the last 30 and that does not make good reading

But I would stick rather than twist right now
 I think all of this is spot on. Well said.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: AV82EC on November 01, 2021, 07:01:08 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: john e on November 01, 2021, 07:00:06 PM
Quote from: curiousorange on November 01, 2021, 06:58:31 PM
Think it was Matt Law in the Telegraph who mentioned yesterday that until McGinn is Villa's third or fourth best midfielder, we won't get any further.

Matt law must be a twat then

He may well be a twat but it doesn’t mean he isn’t right. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Three Spires Villa on November 01, 2021, 07:15:20 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: TelfordVilla on November 01, 2021, 07:00:51 PM
Quote from: john e on November 01, 2021, 06:35:28 PM
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on November 01, 2021, 12:41:07 PM
Smith WAS the right manager choice for NSWE/CP. So they have a 1/1 apt record so maybe we should have some faith they get 2/2 spot on 


I’m not convinced about that

No one can accuse me of being a Dean Smith apologist I have criticised him plenty in the past
In fact I was probably in the Vanguard as I don’t believe the last two seasons he has achieved what he set out to
The first season back when we stayed up by the skin of our teeth was a piss poor year with piss poor Football and last season I think we should have finished top half
For me the last two seasons haven’t been good enough

But I will be worried if we just sack Smith now
Especially if we have no real idea of who will take over and it’s a rush around to see who is available

I also don’t trust Purslow I see him as more like Levy he will want someone malleable
I don’t mind him as a CEO he talks well but I’m not sure about his judgement on managers
The owners won’t have an encyclopedic knowledge of Managers operating around the world and will leave it to CS

The time might well come when Dean Smith’s position is untenable but unless there is a really good fit a top manager or Highly rated up-and-coming manager I would hold off for now

I also think injuries have been horrendous
He has made mistakes some big ones in formations and stuff but so far he has had one hand tied behind his back this season
Although I agree it shouldn’t be based just on the last 10 games it should be based on the last 30 and that does not make good reading

But I would stick rather than twist right now
 I think all of this is spot on. Well said.

T try his is all conjecture, they the owners have only appointed 1 manager and it was good after they binned Bruce. Opinions are fine, that’s what this forum is about, but I would think we need to see who they appoint as the next manager, and how it works out before we start saying they are not good at appointing managers because we don’t know, do we?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Three Spires Villa on November 01, 2021, 07:16:27 PM
			

			

				Should say “This is all” fat fingers, small phone!!!
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: PaulWinch again on November 01, 2021, 07:19:46 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: john e on November 01, 2021, 07:00:06 PM
Quote from: curiousorange on November 01, 2021, 06:58:31 PM
Think it was Matt Law in the Telegraph who mentioned yesterday that until McGinn is Villa's third or fourth best midfielder, we won't get any further.

Matt law must be a twat then 

Seems a bit over the top and he might not be wrong as well.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: brontebilly on November 01, 2021, 07:28:13 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: TelfordVilla on November 01, 2021, 05:58:58 PM
Quote from: Rico on November 01, 2021, 05:36:13 PM
It feels to me that something behind the scenes has gone badly wrong. I mean benching the club captain would have seemed unthinkable a few games ago, and Sansom's water bottle incident has stoked the fires of unrest. Pre-season was such a mess, and trusted coaches departing in quick succession hasn't helped matters. It's going to be tough for Dean to turn this around. Personally I don't think he will.(I hope that he does).Results without Grealish suggest that can't win enough games. 
 So how does sacking the manager help? does that bring greasey joe back ? It wont reverse the pre season cock up or the turn over of back room staff. It will just bring more uncertainty.

Every manager knows that's it's easier to replace them than 10+ players. Smith brought the most of our players and backroom staff in, buck stops with him I'm afraid. That's the game as he is well aware.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: London Villan on November 01, 2021, 07:32:42 PM
			

			

				I think thats spot on about McGinn. Our midfield is the problem. If rice and souchek were in our midfield we’d be where they are.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: TonyD on November 01, 2021, 07:37:43 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: London Villan on November 01, 2021, 07:32:42 PM
I think thats spot on about McGinn. Our midfield is the problem. If rice and souchek were in our midfield we’d be where they are.
Too true.  McGinn is a great player but needs a DCM behind him.    This would make him and Doug more consistent.  But no no we don’t need one.  Nakamba though should never step on the pitch for us again.  Beggars belief he is picked and gets paid.  
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ROBBO on November 01, 2021, 07:41:54 PM
			

			

				Smiths face when Ramsey got injured was indicative of where we we are, he clearly mouthed fck me what else. Another midfielder down and Sanson not getting game time aboslutely does my brain in.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: TonyD on November 01, 2021, 07:44:38 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: ROBBO on November 01, 2021, 07:41:54 PM
Smiths face when Ramsey got injured was indicative of where we we are, he clearly mouthed fck me what else. Another midfielder down and Sanson not getting game time aboslutely does my brain in.
So he brings on Young to try and combat a very physical midfield.  Genius.  
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: London Villan on November 01, 2021, 07:59:44 PM
			

			

				With 2 defensive minded midfielders you can play 4 in front, like west ham do and england should. Also gives you massive flexibility to change shape 4231 - 433 - 4141

Its a glaring gap in our squad and i would have rather one of those than ings.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: tomd2103 on November 01, 2021, 08:00:45 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: TonyD on November 01, 2021, 07:37:43 PM
Quote from: London Villan on November 01, 2021, 07:32:42 PM
I think thats spot on about McGinn. Our midfield is the problem. If rice and souchek were in our midfield we’d be where they are.
Too true.  McGinn is a great player but needs a DCM behind him.    This would make him and Doug more consistent.  But no no we don’t need one.  Nakamba though should never step on the pitch for us again.  Beggars belief he is picked and gets paid. 

McGinn needs to be playing further forward, as he does when he plays for Scotland.  Many people on here stated the need for a quality defensive midfielder to come in over the summer and it is clear that we still need one.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Monty on November 01, 2021, 08:03:34 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: PaulWinch again on November 01, 2021, 07:19:46 PM
Quote from: john e on November 01, 2021, 07:00:06 PM
Quote from: curiousorange on November 01, 2021, 06:58:31 PM
Think it was Matt Law in the Telegraph who mentioned yesterday that until McGinn is Villa's third or fourth best midfielder, we won't get any further.

Matt law must be a twat then 

Seems a bit over the top and he might not be wrong as well.

And he's a Villa fan, so it's not like he's saying it with malice.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: tomd2103 on November 01, 2021, 08:04:43 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: London Villan on November 01, 2021, 07:59:44 PM
With 2 defensive minded midfielders you can play 4 in front, like west ham do and england should. Also gives you massive flexibility to change shape 4231 - 433 - 4141

Its a glaring gap in our squad and i would have rather one of those than ings.

Think Soucek is the key to West Ham's flexibility in midfield.  Rice plays as a holding midfielder and Soucek either plays alongside him or can push up further if required.  They are probably the best central midfield partnership outside the top three teams.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: LukeJames on November 01, 2021, 08:05:34 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: London Villan on November 01, 2021, 07:59:44 PM
With 2 defensive minded midfielders you can play 4 in front, like west ham do and england should. Also gives you massive flexibility to change shape 4231 - 433 - 4141

Its a glaring gap in our squad and i would have rather one of those than ings.

Which makes it all the more frustrating that us idiots on here could see we were desperate for a proper DM but our £1m a month management/recruitment team thought we could do without
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Nunkin1965 on November 01, 2021, 08:07:50 PM
			

			

				My worry is that we look very fragile now. Confidence especially. 
Young was selected (wrongly in my opinion) over Carney due to what he'd be up against and the effect it may have had on him?
If there is a bit of an issue with Mings then that's a problem because I think he plays despite his clear weaknesses for his leadership. 
It's not perfect but he's the only option especially after Saturday. And it was a massive call leaving him out.
If Dean is relieved of his duties its a big job for someone to arrest the slide imo.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Steve67 on November 01, 2021, 08:12:50 PM
			

			

				And yet we might only be a couple of players short of being quite good.   Those players would be DCM's by the way!
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Nunkin1965 on November 01, 2021, 08:16:57 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Steve67 on November 01, 2021, 08:12:50 PM
And yet we might only be a couple of players short of being quite good.   Those players would be DCM's by the way!

It's such an obvious gaping chasm in the squad and you're right it may be that we're just a player or two short of dramatically improving the group.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ozzjim on November 01, 2021, 08:19:00 PM
			

			

				It's not difficult to sort in Jan though. You could go and get any 1 of a number of athletic holding midfielders we were linked to in the summer, play them along side Luiz and push McGinn up and look more solid straight away. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Woody17 on November 01, 2021, 08:23:18 PM
			

			

				We are bang average now he whom shall not be named left us in the summer. 
Smith has been lucky during his tenure at Villa having said player within his squad and without him we are showing our limitations. How many times did we play well without him over the last two or three seasons? 
It doesn’t make me happy saying that but the realisation of us being a one man team is there for all to see.
Smith will be gone by Christmas.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: London Villan on November 01, 2021, 08:24:20 PM
			

			

				Neither JWP, or ESR are holding midfielders though.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Rudy65 on November 01, 2021, 08:26:57 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: john e on November 01, 2021, 06:39:16 PM
Quote from: sickbeggar on November 01, 2021, 03:49:20 PM
Still can't see a new guy waving his wand over that midfield and magically transforming it into anything, so lets hope if they decide to sack him they employ someone with some clout who can get some money out of them in January. A side not struck down with injuries every other week would help too.

We’ve had a massive injury list

Our midfielders are McGinn Luiz Ramsey Sanson Nakamba
With some good youngsters coming through
I think that’s a pretty good bunch of midfield players when they are fit

Really. Looks bang average to me
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Nunkin1965 on November 01, 2021, 08:28:43 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Woody17 on November 01, 2021, 08:23:18 PM
We are bang average now he whom shall not be named left us in the summer. 
Smith has been lucky during his tenure at Villa having said player within his squad and without him we are showing our limitations. How many times did we play well without him over the last two or three seasons? 
It doesn’t make me happy saying that but the realisation of us being a one man team is there for all to see.
Smith will be gone by Christmas.

It doesn't make me happy to say that I think it might be sooner.
And it would be a great shame if he's put through the nightmare of Smith out chants etc.
He desperately needs a result on Friday imo.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Flin5tone on November 01, 2021, 08:32:54 PM
			

			

				We've now got wolves singing mind the gap aston villa as they put a 2nd past Everton. 

They looks worlds apart from us. 

We need to make a change and fast
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Rory on November 01, 2021, 08:40:35 PM
			

			

				Wolves are irrelevant in every sense other than one - they are one of the teams we should be aiming to take six points from every single season. 

Who cares what they sing.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Richard E on November 01, 2021, 08:49:28 PM
			

			

				Who cares that they exist.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: richtheholtender on November 01, 2021, 08:54:08 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: ozzjim on November 01, 2021, 08:19:00 PM
It's not difficult to sort in Jan though. You could go and get any 1 of a number of athletic holding midfielders we were linked to in the summer, play them along side Luiz and push McGinn up and look more solid straight away. 


Why not do it in the summer?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Rory on November 01, 2021, 09:01:32 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Richard E on November 01, 2021, 08:49:28 PM
Who cares that they exist.

A small area of South Staffordshire/North Worcestershire, the scientific name of which is, I believe, the Mustard Haemorrhoid.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: dave.woodhall on November 01, 2021, 09:06:03 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: Flin5tone on November 01, 2021, 08:32:54 PM
We've now got wolves singing mind the gap aston villa as they put a 2nd past Everton. 

They looks worlds apart from us. 

We need to make a change and fast

I'd give up posting on messageboards if I were you. They're making you too depressed. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: brontebilly on November 01, 2021, 09:38:47 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: tomd2103 on November 01, 2021, 08:04:43 PM
Quote from: London Villan on November 01, 2021, 07:59:44 PM
With 2 defensive minded midfielders you can play 4 in front, like west ham do and england should. Also gives you massive flexibility to change shape 4231 - 433 - 4141

Its a glaring gap in our squad and i would have rather one of those than ings.

Think Soucek is the key to West Ham's flexibility in midfield.  Rice plays as a holding midfielder and Soucek either plays alongside him or can push up further if required.  They are probably the best central midfield partnership outside the top three teams.

Yet Luiz and Conor Hourihane, yes Hourihane...outplayed them at West Ham last season. Not sure how we didn't win that night. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: The_ads on November 01, 2021, 11:51:56 PM
			

			

				Our midfield was worse yesterday than against Rotherham away 2.5 years ago.  Since then we’ve spent £200m and it’s regressed. It was obvious to the entire Villa fan base we needed more in there to stop teams walking through us. Times yesterday was an utter embarrassment 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Flin5tone on November 02, 2021, 12:12:23 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: dave.woodhall on November 01, 2021, 09:06:03 PM
Quote from: Flin5tone on November 01, 2021, 08:32:54 PM
We've now got wolves singing mind the gap aston villa as they put a 2nd past Everton. 

They looks worlds apart from us. 

We need to make a change and fast

I'd give up posting on messageboards if I were you. They're making you too depressed.

It's the late nights and overthinking that are doing it now. Different names whizzing around in my head of who could come in to get us out of this mess, then I start feeling sorry for Dean Smith and thinking of how sad it will be to see him go 

Absolute nightmare 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: VinnieChase84 on November 02, 2021, 12:31:23 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: The_ads on November 01, 2021, 11:51:56 PM
Our midfield was worse yesterday than against Rotherham away 2.5 years ago.  Since then we’ve spent £200m and it’s regressed. It was obvious to the entire Villa fan base we needed more in there to stop teams walking through us. Times yesterday was an utter embarrassment 

Look back at my comments in the summer on not buying a CM. Said it would be the sword dean falls on and now we are where are 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: cdbearsfan on November 02, 2021, 12:34:46 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Flin5tone on November 02, 2021, 12:12:23 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on November 01, 2021, 09:06:03 PM
Quote from: Flin5tone on November 01, 2021, 08:32:54 PM
We've now got wolves singing mind the gap aston villa as they put a 2nd past Everton. 

They looks worlds apart from us. 

We need to make a change and fast

I'd give up posting on messageboards if I were you. They're making you too depressed.

It's the late nights and overthinking that are doing it now. Different names whizzing around in my head of who could come in to get us out of this mess, then I start feeling sorry for Dean Smith and thinking of how sad it will be to see him go 

Absolute nightmare

Now you know how we all felt when you resigned.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Sexual Ealing on November 02, 2021, 01:35:42 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on November 02, 2021, 12:34:46 AM
Quote from: Flin5tone on November 02, 2021, 12:12:23 AM
Quote from: dave.woodhall on November 01, 2021, 09:06:03 PM
Quote from: Flin5tone on November 01, 2021, 08:32:54 PM
We've now got wolves singing mind the gap aston villa as they put a 2nd past Everton. 

They looks worlds apart from us. 

We need to make a change and fast

I'd give up posting on messageboards if I were you. They're making you too depressed.

It's the late nights and overthinking that are doing it now. Different names whizzing around in my head of who could come in to get us out of this mess, then I start feeling sorry for Dean Smith and thinking of how sad it will be to see him go 

Absolute nightmare

Now you know how we all felt when you resigned.

Remember when we got that Zoom call together and sang Candle in the Wind? There wasn't a dry eye in the saline solution department of Boots.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: tony scott on November 02, 2021, 02:18:35 AM
			

			

				I wonder with our vast array of coaches why we can’t find someone in the squad to effectively play dm I wonder if we could possibly convert Keinan Davis he’s physical enough and he can pass a ball 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Demitri_C on November 02, 2021, 06:09:04 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: tony scott on November 02, 2021, 02:18:35 AM
I wonder with our vast array of coaches why we can’t find someone in the squad to effectively play dm I wonder if we could possibly convert Keinan Davis he’s physical enough and he can pass a ball

I would have rather he played tuanzebe there than Ashley young. One of the worst subs and ideas ive seen in years playing young there. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Duncan Shaw on November 02, 2021, 07:54:29 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: Demitri_C on November 02, 2021, 06:09:04 AM
Quote from: tony scott on November 02, 2021, 02:18:35 AM
I wonder with our vast array of coaches why we can’t find someone in the squad to effectively play dm I wonder if we could possibly convert Keinan Davis he’s physical enough and he can pass a ball

I would have rather he played tuanzebe there than Ashley young. One of the worst subs and ideas ive seen in years playing young there. 

I'm not one clamouring for Deano to go, but this moment suggested to me for the first time maybe he is feeling the pressure and has lost it.  It was a crazy sub, surely the size and energy of Chuck would have been more appropriate.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ozzjim on November 02, 2021, 08:13:21 AM
			

			

				Chuck would have got the crowd up too. Young playing I have no issue with, but for the utterly out of form Targett. I find it odd that we went 3-5-2 and didn't play Young left wing back at all. His best position. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: The_ads on November 02, 2021, 08:29:33 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: tony scott on November 02, 2021, 02:18:35 AM
I wonder with our vast array of coaches why we can’t find someone in the squad to effectively play dm I wonder if we could possibly convert Keinan Davis he’s physical enough and he can pass a ball

I can think of 1874 reasons why that’s a bad idea, the main one being Keinan Davis is made of crisps 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Nev on November 02, 2021, 08:30:50 AM
			

			

				The introduction of Young makes perfect sense if you want some decent dead ball delivery and your ethos is to win games via set pieces and long balls as it appears is the case lately.

It makes no sense whatsoever when viewed from our previous approach, in terms of energy, pressing and passing and a mobile, creative midfield.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: chrisw1 on November 02, 2021, 08:49:23 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: ROBBO on November 01, 2021, 07:41:54 PM
Smiths face when Ramsey got injured was indicative of where we we are, he clearly mouthed fck me what else. Another midfielder down and Sanson not getting game time aboslutely does my brain in.
It was bad timing to be making an example out of Sanson for his outburst.  But a lot of these problems are self made.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Footy-Vill on November 02, 2021, 07:03:28 PM
			

			

				The 50-year-old has been working as a manager for a decade but he has never been sacked, only ever taking positive steps in his career from Walsall to Brentford, and on to his boyhood club.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on November 02, 2021, 07:20:50 PM
			

			

				First time for everything.  Daniel Farke has never been sacked either.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: boozey182 on November 05, 2021, 11:08:57 AM
			

			

				I am desperate for things to start going right for Dean. This has really hit home for me over the course of the last week.

I didn’t make it to the match last Sunday - I was all ready to go, but my 1-year-old son hadn’t been very well, so in the afternoon my wife rang 111. They sent an ambulance crew over, who after an assessment, took him and my wife off the Children’s Hospital. (He’s absolutely fine now, and came home yesterday - he just gave us a very real scare on Halloween).

Anyway, the Villa-West Ham match was on mute in the background as I hurried around the house to pack bags for them both - the result didn’t matter to me, of course, but the silent, flickering images of another defeat, on a miserable, dark afternoon was somehow quite fitting to add that feeling of everything going wrong.

As I said, he is fine now. I have spent my week dashing about picking them some things up, like fresh food and snacks, changes of clothes, toys etc, and then dropping it all off at the Children’s Hospital. Quite the change from my usual week of sitting at my desk at home, all day every day.

Being out of the house, sporting my Villa hat and face mask, I have had countless conversations, both in the shops and the hospital, about how Villa are doing - with Villa fans, Blues fans, Albion fans (funny how the latter two are much more open to talking when we aren’t doing so well!). To be honest, it’s been lovely to have those brief conversations around the city. A welcome distraction to the other thoughts and every single one has been good natured and pleasant. The hat and face mask became conversation openers, at a time when I probably would have otherwise avoided social contact with everyone - immersing myself with worry instead.

What has this got to do with Dean? Well, he is part of that. He grew up as part of this community, he understands what Villa means in the city, and whatever anyone else says when they turn up about “it’s a massive club”, you need to live here for a quite a while before you really get it.

What we have, with Dean as manager, is special. We probably won’t have this again in my lifetime - a proper fan as a manager. So, if it was up to me, I would give him as much time as possible to put this right. I would give him until after Christmas, and even then only give him the shove if relegation was a real threat.

I appreciate the owners will almost definitely see it differently, as most fans will. The table never lies, we haven’t been performing anywhere near the levels that we should have and I will admit to being increasingly concerned by his assessments post-game.

But at the same time, I won’t apologise for being overly sentimental, this week of all weeks. We have been very lucky to have Dean as our manager for these last 3 years, it is something that a lot of football supporters won’t get to experience. I’m not ready for it to end yet.

3 points tonight please boys.

			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Risso on November 05, 2021, 11:35:22 AM
			

			

				Unless we get Potter of course.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: ChicagoLion on November 05, 2021, 11:40:06 AM
			

			

				Glad things are OK Boozey, much more important than football.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on November 05, 2021, 11:57:32 AM
			

			

				Boozey wishing you and your family all the best in what must have been a difficult week. I hope the Villa win tonight for you all.
Your perspective re Dean Smith made interesting reading and all too easily can be forgotten. UTV!
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: PaulWinch again on November 05, 2021, 12:06:35 PM
			

			

				Best wishes boozy.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: cdbearsfan on November 05, 2021, 01:35:03 PM
			

			

				Yeah, hope you have a better weekend this week Boozey.
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: boozey182 on November 05, 2021, 01:44:03 PM
			

			

				Thanks everyone. 

We are the lucky ones - we went in and came out of the Children's Hospital with (fingers crossed) no lasting consequences. I just thought I would share my thoughts and offer a slightly different perspective.

I know we all want Dean, and therefore the club, to succeed. The great thing about this site is there are so many reasonable and well thought out theories on how we should get to where we all want to be. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Monty on November 05, 2021, 01:45:21 PM
			

			

				All the best to you boozey, that must have been a tough week. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: RamboandBruno on November 05, 2021, 01:52:27 PM
			

			

				
Quote from: boozey182 on November 05, 2021, 01:44:03 PM
Thanks everyone. 

We are the lucky ones - we went in and came out of the Children's Hospital with (fingers crossed) no lasting consequences. I just thought I would share my thoughts and offer a slightly different perspective.

I know we all want Dean, and therefore the club, to succeed. The great thing about this site is there are so many reasonable and well thought out theories on how we should get to where we all want to be.

All the best boozey, nothing more important than your kids. I hope Villa give you a win at the end of a tough week. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: dave shelley on November 05, 2021, 04:25:13 PM
			

			

				Glad all is well with the little 'un Boozey, always a worry, kids eh?
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on November 06, 2021, 08:40:10 AM
			

			

				Sadly the time is probably up for Dean Smith. He’s a nice chap and has contributed so much to the progress of Aston Villa that it would be unfortunate for him to see it all unravel particularly as he is personally invested in the club (a fan). I don’t think he’s lost most of the players, but unfortunately for Dean he has made mistakes (team selection/formation, substitutions, game management...). Something has gone on behind the scenes since the Wolves collapse and I wouldn’t be surprised if it revolves around Sanson and with Sanson the likes of Lange in a ‘him or me’ type situation.
Personally I think Sanson should be involved (you don’t have to like the players you play), but what’s being played out appears to be running deeper than one player.
For the good of Aston Villa something needs to happen. Dean moving on maybe the best for all concerned though if it was up to me I would also part ways with Lange (generally poor recruitment) and the silver tongued Purslow should also be looking over his shoulder for overseeing a sh-tfest of a summer’s business culminating in his ridiculous 3 players for 1 player comment. 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: VinnieChase84 on November 06, 2021, 08:56:13 AM
			

			

				Glad your lads doing ok now Boozey! Way more important things in life than what Villa are doing (Or not doing) 
			

			

				Title: Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed

				Post by: algy on November 06, 2021, 10:27:09 AM
			

			

				
Quote from: VinnieChase84 on November 06, 2021, 08:56:13 AM
Glad your lads doing ok now Boozey! Way more important things in life than what Villa are doing (Or not doing)
Yeah - best wishes to you all, Boozey. 
			

		

		
	
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