Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: footyskillz on August 28, 2018, 10:14:30 AM
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So with the new outfield players :Bolasie , El Ghazi, McGinn, Tuanzebe , and the rest of the squad
How and what is considered our best formation?
Which tactics, formation and line ups would you like the villa to use?
Also to discuss Bruce/coaching staff considered match tactics, set ups and formations they are using this season
And the players too in the systems and how they are performing.
I would like to see an identity in style of play
Yes to be organized and set out a certain way but Within that a fluid system where adapting to match situation occurs.
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Okay so I think my ideal is with the new signings and considered formations to be used
4-1-2-3
I think Bolasie and ElGhazi are to be wide forwards and support in the attacking forrays.
The full backs though need to maraud down the flanks and overlap .
If the wingers or forward players are to be inverted and cut in then that really needs to occur.
I think the JK has been isolated at times and the new forward players will hopefully carry the ball and offer a goal threat.
In the 4-1-2-3 Grealish and McGinn are the 2 and Whelan or Bjarnasson as the DM .
As I say moving forward I hope the wide players are used as effective forward players with the support of full backs.
I feel Bruce see the use of full backs as defenders first and perhaps wants to leave the attacking players to attack
That's far too basic and even though I'm overjoyed we have 2 potential excellent wide players , wingers are very outdated in modern game and actually Bruce should be utilising the full backs and their contribution to attacking play.
Be as wing backs or otherwise.
However it remains to be seen if Bruce can actually formulate the system to a high degree of effectiveness as a balance.
The midfield can press and dominate the ball and possession but the organization without and being exposed to counter could be a concern.
There also issue how Bruce would play 3 forwards but like to think El Ghazi and Bolasie would be high up pitch .
However Bolaise I feel likes to hang wide and come inside and outside rather than actually get in the box without the ball.
Anyway I feel a 4-1-2-3 is best with wide forwards.
The struggle would be no width if full backs don't push on and I don't feel Bruce is interested in having them get forward to the by line.
Is it possible why RDL and Bree and even Taylor don't get selected because of their potential to be attacking.
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I'd go
Nyland
Elmo Tuanzebe Chester Hutton
Grealish Whelan McGinn
Bolasie Kodjia El Ghazi
Whelan sitting tight and giving Grealish and McGinn licence to get forward whenever possible.
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In regards to Defence I think Jedinak is in there for his heading ability and physicality.
I don't feel bruce is going to move him from this centre halves role as he stated that's where he sees his future.
So tactically Bruce is playing Jedinak as a centre back because he feels he's physically capable and can dominate in the air and strong in tackle as well as being experienced player.
Ariel duels wise I think he wins more than he loses and this is a strength for any centre half so is strong on this . Can dominate opposing strikers in this respect .
However positionally and experience to the position is lacking as much as his pace.
That said I starting to understand why he would use him in this role.
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Jedinak has made one major clanger in every game he's played in defence, and it's no surprise we've yet to keep a clean sheet. Playing him there is madness. He's even slower than Terry was last year, but without the skill and speed of thought to make up for it.
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I'd go slightly different.
Given our only tactic seems to be getting crosses in I want the fullbacks higher up the pitch. To accommodate that I'd get McGinn to play a little deeper.
Nyland
Elmo/RDL Chester Tuanzebe Hutton
McGinn Whelan/Thor/Jedi
Grealish
Bolasie Kodjia El Ghazi
I'd rather we had a left footed left back and Whelan/Thor/Jedi would be alternated based on who we play (Whelan if we expect to have lots of the ball, Jedi if they've got a big fucker up front who needs marshalling and Thor is they play possession football).
I'm happy with either right back starting, both would be in my 18 either way.
The key thing is getting the fullbacks to overlap and the wingers to cut in and get into the box to support Kodj. El Ghazi in particular is a big lad for a winger and should be useful coming in onto deep crosses. Grealish gives us something different if the crossing isn't working and should be pushed to get closer to Kodj if we're not creating chances.
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Jedinak has made one major clanger in every game he's played in defence, and it's no surprise we've yet to keep a clean sheet. Playing him there is madness. He's even slower than Terry was last year, but without the skill and speed of thought to make up for it.
It's certainly not ideal having Jedinak there and it's Bruce thinking mile can adapt .
Of course I can see like you that he hasn't been up to speed but Bruce is maybe trying some replication of having a model pro (like JT) in the defence .
Bolaise spoke very highly of Mile about his attitude and professionalism and that also it's noted players like him , whelan and Elmo had a far more professional approach and good dressing room influence in the squad .
Several players have commented he is most intelligent . And that is good to hear if he's learning the centre back role
I do see Elphick and him are both error prone. Alternative is having Tuanzebe but Bruce is not that one for a so called considered risk (being that of playing young inexperience player) when Bruce feels that Jedinak can do the job.
We had previous with Sherwood playing Richards at Centre half .
I do think Jedinak is far far more disciplined and has a higher footy intelligence with Richards and that experiment.(all-round in fact more successful)
The thing here is we can discuss the idea and think as to why it's happening but also to see that this is the likelihood that Jedinak will be having a number of matches centre half
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I'd go slightly different.
Given our only tactic seems to be getting crosses in I want the fullbacks higher up the pitch. To accommodate that I'd get McGinn to play a little deeper.
Nyland
Elmo/RDL Chester Tuanzebe Hutton
McGinn Whelan/Thor/Jedi
Grealish
Bolasie Kodjia El Ghazi
I'd rather we had a left footed left back and Whelan/Thor/Jedi would be alternated based on who we play (Whelan if we expect to have lots of the ball, Jedi if they've got a big fucker up front who needs marshalling and Thor is they play possession football).
I'm happy with either right back starting, both would be in my 18 either way.
The key thing is getting the fullbacks to overlap and the wingers to cut in and get into the box to support Kodj. El Ghazi in particular is a big lad for a winger and should be useful coming in onto deep crosses. Grealish gives us something different if the crossing isn't working and should be pushed to get closer to Kodj if we're not creating chances.
This. And as mentioned, vital for fullbacks to overlap and be comfortable and decent with their final ball (hence a left-footed player at LB and preferably RDL at RB).
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Tactics?! Where we're going, we don't need tactics!
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Though even with this - there has to be a clear pattern of play.
What paul_e and footyskillz suggest a side that typically has an early and high press to gain/regain possession and then moves the ball quickly through an interchange of players (because there are notionally three players in advanced positions to apply the press and then lots of angles for passes, overlaps, combinations with close team-mates once we have possession).
Plus the intent has to be to attack with serious intent, i.e. handbrake off. We might lose sometimes but with the squad we have and 3 points for a win, we are likely to accumulate more points - as well as generating excitement and momentum. UTV.
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A pressing game with a high line defence .
Nyland
RDL Tuanzebe Chester Hutton
Thor McGinn
Grealish
Bolasie Kodjia El Ghazi.
Also the team should be adaptable to opponents and game situations..If we play a team that relies heavily on a big unit upfront and an aerial threat then Jedi would replace Tuanzebe,this would be rare.The defence would have to drop deeper.
Needing a late goal or playing v 10 would see 4132 with RHM as a second striker replacing a wide player and Albert replacing Hutton and if necessary Hourihane for Thor..
Seeing out a game ,would change to 5 3 1 1 with Jedi coming in as a 3rd centre back and in midfield Doyle-Hayes who is very good at keeping possession with Jack free behind the striker ,again with the intention of keeping maximum possession.Both wide players woud be sacrificed.
Elmo would also be a useful reserve.Though Whelan is adept at keeping possession ,his lack of pace would hinder the midfield and I would see him as surplus to requirements.
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I would like to see Jack playing off Kodija too. In away games that might mean McGinn sitting deep and playing 2 defensive midfielders. At home it might mean a similar set-up but with McGinn being more license to burst forward.
I would expect some rotation and some player management to prevent burn-out i.e. if a game's won, take people like Jack off because they're probably going to be starting most games. Elsewhere we should have 2 players for each position. Several times last year Bruce kept the same team in consecutive games and it cost us. QPR at home is the infamous one but there were other times too.
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My tactics are put the ball in the back of the oppositions net and don't concede a goal simple but effective.
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My tactics are put the ball in the back of the oppositions net and don't concede a goal simple but effective.
Steve? Shouldn't you be on the training ground?
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I think Bruce is going to use / contuine to use Grealish as one of the 3 in the midfield.
Further forward than a DM but he wants him to come back both in tackling and in getting involved on the ball.
Grealish has really developed this side of the game in his tackling and regaining possession .
Also Grealish has mentioned how Bruce has in past challenge him to cover big distances over the pitch and getting around the pitch is essential for any midfielder.
Mcginn is a press extradonaire and like he's know exactly how to win the ball more often than not. I think he is just great for what trying to achieve
Whereas Jack style of press is different yet effective in managing to get the ball.
For Jack to be involved at a maximum maybe it's him playing deeper and being on the ball.
For all his qualities he has a tendency not to shoot enough.
I think he should be used as a creative player similar to Coutinho in the midfield 3 of Liverpool .
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My tactics are put the ball in the back of the oppositions net and don't concede a goal simple but effective.
Just the one, Steve?
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My tactics are put the ball in the back of the oppositions net and don't concede a goal simple but effective.
Steve? Shouldn't you be on the training ground?
Haah very Steve Bruce !
Bruce now has another simple idea of having fresh and young legs with energy in the team.... We LL see how he translates that tactically ?
Most headers scored in the league last season
Set pieces will still be important and I imagine with all the footyskillz on show a fair number of fouls against our forward players leaidng to more chances .
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My tactics are put the ball in the back of the oppositions net and don't concede a goal simple but effective.
Steve? Shouldn't you be on the training ground?
Haah very Steve Bruce !
Bruce now has another simple idea of having fresh and young legs with energy in the team.... We LL see how he translates that tactically ?
Most headers scored in the league last season
Set pieces will still be important and I imagine with all the footyskillz on show a fair number of fouls against our forward players leaidng to more chances .
Brian Clough once said. "Players lose you games not tactics there's so much crap about tactics by people who barely know how to win at dominoes"
I know it's a different era but for me he's spot on.
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Imagine a behind the scenes Aston villa/Steve Bruce documentary in similar style to the recent release of the ' All or nothing' Manchester city recordings.
Hearing Bruce insights and seeing him talk tactics
And all the locker room goings on.
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My tactics are put the ball in the back of the oppositions net and don't concede a goal simple but effective.
Steve? Shouldn't you be on the training ground?
Haah very Steve Bruce !
Bruce now has another simple idea of having fresh and young legs with energy in the team.... We LL see how he translates that tactically ?
Most headers scored in the league last season
Set pieces will still be important and I imagine with all the footyskillz on show a fair number of fouls against our forward players leaidng to more chances .
Brian Clough once said. "Players lose you games not tactics there's so much crap about tactics by people who barely know how to win at dominoes"
I know it's a different era but for me he's spot on.
Granted but Bruce isn't Clough.
Where are you with Guardiola or Klopp
Bielsa a good example of how he likes to play and set up being so far successful with a similar group of players last season
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My tactics are put the ball in the back of the oppositions net and don't concede a goal simple but effective.
Steve? Shouldn't you be on the training ground?
Haah very Steve Bruce !
Bruce now has another simple idea of having fresh and young legs with energy in the team.... We LL see how he translates that tactically ?
Most headers scored in the league last season
Set pieces will still be important and I imagine with all the footyskillz on show a fair number of fouls against our forward players leaidng to more chances .
Brian Clough once said. "Players lose you games not tactics there's so much crap about tactics by people who barely know how to win at dominoes"
I know it's a different era but for me he's spot on.
Definitely a comment from a different era. The margins between ability and fitness between elite/pro level players are much tighter now. The game is faster and smaller details decide matches. You see so-called "lesser" teams out-perform more expensively assembled ones and play better football in the process all the time at many different levels of the game. That is a result of good coaching, tactics and patterns of play, pure and simple.
Look no further than our own team for the last two years as an example of a side that in terms of its wage bill, transfer fees and perceived 'quality' has underachieved! Or Man United currently. It's not enough to rely on just players' individual moments of quality to win you games anymore across a 40 game season, against well organised and physically fit opposition.
In fact you see a lot of managers who were players in that Clough era (great example being one of his players in O'Neil) running out of steam in today's game.
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Under Bruce, very little style, neglible tactics, baffling formations, weird substitutions, little in-game management.
In my view we have the players that could do some very real damage to teams, they just need managing correctly.
UTV!
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A tactics thread?
This is not required. As there are no tactics by Steve Bruce.
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I'd go slightly different.
Given our only tactic seems to be getting crosses in I want the fullbacks higher up the pitch. To accommodate that I'd get McGinn to play a little deeper.
Nyland
Elmo/RDL Chester Tuanzebe Hutton
McGinn Whelan/Thor/Jedi
Grealish
Bolasie Kodjia El Ghazi
I'd rather we had a left footed left back and Whelan/Thor/Jedi would be alternated based on who we play (Whelan if we expect to have lots of the ball, Jedi if they've got a big fucker up front who needs marshalling and Thor is they play possession football).
I'm happy with either right back starting, both would be in my 18 either way.
The key thing is getting the fullbacks to overlap and the wingers to cut in and get into the box to support Kodj. El Ghazi in particular is a big lad for a winger and should be useful coming in onto deep crosses. Grealish gives us something different if the crossing isn't working and should be pushed to get closer to Kodj if we're not creating chances.
For overlapping fullbacks, it is essential for at least 2 factors to be in place:
1 the LB is left footed (as you say), to use the outside and whip in the ball
2 the attackers get into the box at speed and in numbers (one of the irritations last Saturday was the lack of urgency to get into golascoring positions when we had the ball)
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Under Bruce, very little style, neglible tactics, baffling formations, weird substitutions, little in-game management.
In my view we have the players that could do some very real damage to teams, they just need managing correctly.
UTV!
Agreed
Or 'This' if you're cool. Which I'm not.
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A tactics thread?
This is not required. As there are no tactics by Steve Bruce.
This, this with fucking bells on.
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We have no discernible style, no evidence of tactics and a formation of 11 men on the pitch.
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I’d lock this thread until Bruce had gone.
As about as useful as a marzipan dildo.
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I’d lock this thread until Bruce had gone.
As about as useful as a marzipan dildo.
The icing on the cock.
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As far as formations go, just pick numbers at random and hope they add up to 10.
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Is there any possibility Bruce's team sheet has got mixed up with his takeaway order? I've just checked tonight's squad numbers against my local Chinese menu and I reckon he's accidentally fielded a set banquet for six with an extra portion of special fried rice and some salt and pepper chicken wings.
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I think it's very old school of Bruce and paradoxical what he doing with Andre Green in loaning him out.
Where is the player development ?
Or at least speak with some intelligent Bruce on things it's all very basic especially compared to say jurgen klopp.
Fabinho was signed in summer but hasn't started
Instead of being critical like Bruce have of the fringe players or non league starting players he could be well advised to speak in a way like the German does.
I don't find Bruce comments particular helpful to the squad and that he threw these players together in league cup lacking a motivation . It's uninspiring.
I rather his speak about position and awareness and things.
Look at how klopp is dealing with Fabino and also how he States Robertson has come on
Klopp said: “It is about players understanding the position and who else is available as well, otherwise Fabinho would have been involved in the squad, as he was in the first week.
“That is it. It is different football to what he is used to but he is improving already with big steps. I can see that in the sessions and that is cool.
“You see Andy Robertson running around here at Melwood now and he’s a completely different person to the one who was here in the first three months. That’s how it is, but everything will be fine."
I like a manager who understood tactical acumen , inspire, to motivate and gave young players inclusion.
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Is there any possibility Bruce's team sheet has got mixed up with his takeaway order? I've just checked tonight's squad numbers against my local Chinese menu and I reckon he's accidentally fielded a set banquet for six with an extra portion of special fried rice and some salt and pepper chicken wings.
Missed this last night.
Bravo sir Bravo....
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My tactics are put the ball in the back of the oppositions net and don't concede a goal simple but effective.
Steve? Shouldn't you be on the training ground?
Haah very Steve Bruce !
Bruce now has another simple idea of having fresh and young legs with energy in the team.... We LL see how he translates that tactically ?
Most headers scored in the league last season
Set pieces will still be important and I imagine with all the footyskillz on show a fair number of fouls against our forward players leaidng to more chances .
Brian Clough once said. "Players lose you games not tactics there's so much crap about tactics by people who barely know how to win at dominoes"
I know it's a different era but for me he's spot on.
Granted but Bruce isn't Clough.
Where are you with Guardiola or Klopp
Bielsa a good example of how he likes to play and set up being so far successful with a similar group of players last season
I'm definitely in the Pep philosophy but we wont get a Pep I wish we could find the next Pep after watching the All or Nothing series I would love it if that could be us we live in hope.
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So are we saying squad is this with centre backs at Jedinak and Bree
Goal - Nyland /Moreira / Bunn -
Centre Backs - Chester / Tuanzebe /Jedinak/Bree
Fullbacks - Elmo / Hutton / De Laet / Taylor
Central Midfield - Hourihane / Bjarnasson/ Lansbury / Whelan/McGinn
Attacking Midfield - Grealish / Adomah / Bolasie / ElGhazi
Strikers - Kodjia / Hogan / Davis / RHM - Abrahams
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At this time the 4 centre backs look to be Chester and jedinak and then Tuanzebe and Bree as further options .
Right backs I like RDL but I think after Burton and generally Elmo or Tuanzebe will be there .
Left back is Hutton . Mr 100%
Midfield Whelan, Tuanzebe, Bjarnasson as DM role
Mcginn Grealish will be a fixtures
And I think will be Bolasie and El Ghazi will be too
Kodija could play wide to allow Abrahams the forward position
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I reckon our first choice line up in a few weeks time will be
Nyland
Elmo Chester tuanzebe hutton
McGinn Whelan / bjarnason grealish
Bolasie Abraham / kodjia / el ghazi
That attack looks to have ridiculous quality at this level. Arguably better than last year's. Certainly pacier.
But it's very new and will require a bit of bedding in
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I see Axel staying at right-back. Bruce has made enough comments in interviews that he sees Jedinak as centre half. Only other question is are we still playing Kodjia-ball or will Abraham join him upfront or replace him or indeed is he just cover?
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I have no idea how he can shoe-horn all the attackers into a team and achieve balance.
Front two? Would need wide players, where does Jack play?
One up front? - Where does Jimmy play? Then what for our new wingers and Jack?
Back three? Who are our wing backs? What happens in midfield and attack?
Lots of questions and it will be interesting to see what happens.
I do think we need a free agent centre back though.
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Bruce makes me laugh though.
He said in his interview after match
"Regardless of people coming in Regardless of tactics :o
You've got to roll your sleeves up and be physically ready....."
He then goes on to say "you can talk about tactics or 'you don't know what you're doing' and 'dinosaur' gonna come out but at the end of the day we didn't put our boots on "
Unfortunately this sort of simplicity in approach and attitude about getting physical and effort is such a limited view.
So basic and that why there is an inherit problem with the squad and team under Bruce and coaching staff.
Some have joked on here about tactics and things but there is just a complete lack of understanding by Bruce in doing anything with current tactics.
His outdated ways and suggesting that the "most disappointing thing is that he didn't put their boots on" and talking of " rolling sleeves up" indicates to me someone who has disgregard for 'advanced' attitude in football .
And to me it's not even advanced to have tactical accumen.
The very problem is how he identifies issues in such a shocking shocking way and that to suggest this idea of fighting and being competitive and NOTHING on tactical speak is just embarrassing in 2018 .
It's old school speak it's Sunday league not professional speak
It's not yesteryear. It only works to an extent .
And it doesn't give any quality in game play or consistency certainly not at a top professional level there is any identity.
I want a manager who will bring fresh ideas and movements not a manager who wants a team to roll their sleeves up .
Thats not football to many people now . Too him and maybe others that's how they see it and what football basics are I along with many other want to see a fresh approach with great tactics and fluid play .
Up the villa.
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Despite all the players being brought in, as our new owners blindly back Bruce as the previous owner did, we still to my eye don't have a squad capable of competing for promotion. I can't see a cohesive unit being generated out of our crew.
Goalkeeper - utter rubbish both of them
Right back - need Elmo or RDL in there asap
Centre half - only ONE at the club
Left back - Hutton struggling badly, Neil Taylor seems finished
Midfield - all options slow and incapable of dictating play. Simply have to play two holding midfielders to cover the car crash behind them which negates the strengths of McGinn and Hourihane.
Wings - should be ok once new guys settle
Grealish - head has been gone since Spurs move fell apart
Striker - certainly hope Abraham is capable of playing a hold up role as our best bet is likely direct football to the front and get our forward players to get on second ball
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I realise Nyland hasn't exactly sparkled so far but just for a minute imagine the chaos going on in front of him. How on earth is he meant to gain any confidence at all from that?
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I realise Nyland hasn't exactly sparkled so far but just for a minute imagine the chaos going on in front of him. How on earth is he meant to gain any confidence at all from that?
Totally agree. While i don't like Bruce what I have seen from the highlights today is that players were not putting in challenges and instead allowing Sheff Utd players to just run at them (or past them). As for Nyland, I feel sorry for him, he is playing in front of a non existence defence. For this I do blame Bruce, as he has had the whole transfer market to put this right.
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Tactiaclly Bruce should have recognized that we were too open and made changes so there was defensive stability .
Sometimes he is not so skilled at changing things which keep a balance in team.
The like for like subs or a move to bring in a more attacking player and moving players around can seemingly affect the fludity.
The individual errors occuring is a concern and there would be reason for this.
In some respects it's down to concentration . In some respects it's down to how being managed and coached .
Versus Sheffield u
Whelan as a dm , the number 6 role , needed help.
And we either needed two in that role him and say Tuanzabe.
Yet he took Tuanzabe off and brought on Hourihane and put Elmo into right back
The other changes were like for like sub Hutton - Taylor
And midfielder McGinn for striker RHM
It was clear to see there was a lot of space in midfield and on this occasion another number 6 was needed.
Mcginn doesn't play that role and actually should have been subbed way sooner than 76 min on this occasion.
Also the problem on left side and Hutton and then el ghazi winger supporting him defensively seems a problem
It's not El ghazi strength and was giving fouls away.
We see his strength is attacking .
Now if we adapt to situation Bruce would have set up a 4-2-1-3 ideally or at lest changed to it in match play.
The 2 number 6 in this instance and then Jack as number 10 with El ghazi and elmo as part of front 3 wide forwards with Jimmy.
Elmo could have gone to right back and Tuanzabe into midfield (or Bjarnasson) and McGinn would have to come off for this system .
However could have had it with Grealish as a wide inside forward and McGinn ahead of two number 6 as a number 8 .
The problem seem to be the playing system being used and players knowing their role and actually being able to do it too effectively .
I also think a problem was having Elmo as one of the attacking players .
He can be effective as a right back and RHM should have come on in a changed system probably at half time .
Kodija could play as wide forwards left and Elghazi on right with RHM up top as 3 attackers.
Playing against Sheffield U a 3-5-2 or 3-4-1-2 with wing backs that get forward and a midfielder Duffy who had room in between the lines and scored should have been well known to Bruce how they play.
They have a settled system and play a certain way.
Bruce maybe has a ,4-4-1-1 system which was all wrong .
He seems to be searching for right system but he needs to use the players in the most effective way and be far more tactically aware of how to be defensively stable yet fluid attacking against teams
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You can say all this until you are blue in the face but it doesn't alter the basic fact that Bruce does NOT do tactics, therefore it just comes down to the scatter-gun approach, a wing and a prayer!
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I realise Nyland hasn't exactly sparkled so far but just for a minute imagine the chaos going on in front of him. How on earth is he meant to gain any confidence at all from that?
It's just a perfect storm of shitness. A truly rubbish defence playing in front of a mediocre keeper who doesn't inspire confidence in return. I said before the game yesterday that the defenc ewould cost us promotion, and that will definitely be the case this year.
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As a matter of interest, does anyone think a team comprising of. Bunn Taylor Richards De Laat Bree Bjarnsson hourihane Lansbury Adomahah Hogan and McCormack properly set up would beat our current first team at the moment
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As a matter of interest, does anyone think a team comprising of. Bunn Taylor Richards De Laat Bree Bjarnsson hourihane Lansbury Adomahah Hogan and McCormack properly set up would beat our current first team at the moment
Good point and thought provoking
The Damned X1
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As a matter of interest, does anyone think a team comprising of. Bunn Taylor Richards De Laat Bree Bjarnsson hourihane Lansbury Adomahah Hogan and McCormack properly set up would beat our current first team at the moment
Frightening
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As a matter of interest, does anyone think a team comprising of. Bunn Taylor Richards De Laat Bree Bjarnsson hourihane Lansbury Adomahah Hogan and McCormack properly set up would beat our current first team at the moment
Well sorry I'm slow on this but had things on .. Having heard the news bruce playing unfit / injured players I'm fuming so yeah a match between injured players against that lot touted
Both to lose !
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Two wingers, one front man, no support from midfield for the main striker as the midfielders gather around the wingers or the centre backs.
Madness I tells ya.
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I'm not sure if the imbalances in our squad can be fixed by formations.
- keeper is really poor and his defence can't have any confidence in him
- aging players now struggling, (Hutton and Jedinak)
- Chester not half the player without Terrys presence next to him
- lack of height and presence being brutally exposed at set piece time
- centre half debacle
- our midfield options aren't going to provide too much cover irrespective of who is selected
- trying to fit Bolasie, Grealish, El Ghazi, Abraham, McGinn, Hourihane, Adamoah, Kodjia into a front 4/5 max
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Playing 4-3-3 with Abrahams/Kodija supported by Bolasie and El Ghazi
Leave a front 3 to do the attacking .
Liam Rosenior Footballer said that Bolasie plays best as wide attacker in a 4-3-3 where he doesn't need to track back.
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I agree
Grealish isn't a proper no 10 so we need wingers right up the pitch - like Fulham played
We've got the players so there's no excuse
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Well, Bolasie better get used to tracking back and playing a defensive role under Bruce.
Safety first and all that.
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Apologies for cross-posting:
I would play El Ghazi and Bolasie as seriously attacking wing-backs.
Hutton, Chester and Tuanzabe as a back 3.
Hourihane, McGinn and Grealish in midfield,
and Kodjia and Abrahams up front.
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Bruce is still here.
This thread remains redundant (unfortunately unlike Bruce!)
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Bruce is still here.
This thread remains redundant (unfortunately unlike Bruce!)
Actually GT Bruce was talking formations after match v Rotherham 2-0 win.
Talking about 2 strikers:
"Most people that seen me during my career I've always wanted to play 2 up top and for some reason here it hasn't really happened ....."
" I played 2 up top at Birmingham (with 3 centre halves.) It's always something I wanted to do we've got the personnel to do it we've seen that tonight and 2 strikers is a threat and them 2 would be a threat to anybody .. "
Asked in terms of formation is that something looking at game to game or something to stick to:
". .. it's something I'll toy with (2 up top)"
"In this league though you have to pick teams and formations to adapt alot of teams play different I just looked at that I thought the 2 up top Grealish wide and El Ghazi on other side bring Bolasie and Adomah on that's a threat to anybody in this division "
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Wolves, Fulham, brentford, Leeds . They have a clear way of playing they seek to impose. Bruce has always been pragmatic . I prefer the former
Can't see that 442 working week in and out. It's very unbalanced on the left, the way we play it isolates grealish and we cede possession very easily.
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If bruce is going with his 2 up top formation then please
Nyland
Bree
Chester
Tuanzabe
Hutton
Jedinak
McGinn
Bolasie
Grealish
Abrahams
Kodija
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Jedinak can't play in a four man midfield in my view
He's way too slow and not good enough on the ball
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Nyland
Bree Tuanzabe Chester
EL khazi MCGINN GREALISH HOURIHANE BOLASIE
ABRAHAM KODJA
too much ??
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Is El Khazi that Spaniard who's built like a brick sh*thouse?
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Is El Khazi that Spaniard who's built like a brick sh*thouse?
is that not his nickname ?
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If bruce is going with his 2 up top formation then please
Nyland
Bree
Chester
Tuanzabe
Hutton
Jedinak
McGinn
Bolasie
Grealish
Abrahams
Kodija
Yeah I like it, but it will never catch on
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Is El Khazi that Spaniard who's built like a brick sh*thouse?
is that not his nickname ?
No idea!
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With the 7 departed scouts & technical staff departing Bruce will know it's the last throw of the dice for him, so he may Surprise us by some more attacking intent in coming games
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There is no choice not to be attacking with 2 up top and the other attackers like Bolasie and Grealish .Mcginn and El Ghazi as well as the goals of Adomah and Houirhane
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I may be in the minority but thought Taylor was one of our better players at Blackburn and a better option there than Hutton, who slows the game down with his first touch coming inside. Tuanzebe was good at Blackburn imo, I think he has real talent. Hogan if he is fit enough should be on the bench imo
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If Taylor was any good it was fleeting. He’s a disaster waiting to happen every minute he’s on the pitch.
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It's fair enough playing 2 up top and thinking it's attacking but Bruce and his team don't seem to think about how to make it fully effective. I think the best way to play it was how Leicester utilised it as a counter attacking system, moving the ball quickly up the field when in possession and punishing opposition mistakes.
Bruce and his team seem to think we can dominate possession playing 2 in the middle and pass our way through. It played right in Wednesday's hands and it clearly wasn't working after 15 minutes of the game on Saturday. We need 3 in the middle if they want to dominate the ball imo and if he wants to play 2 up top then I'd much rather see a 3-5-2.
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The best the back four looked all season was Blackburn.
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What happened to Bruce usual 2 up top ??
Seemed to initial play jimmy right then swapped him with Grealish ?!
Real puzzling how he approached the match and in game tactics
The most frustrating was he ended up with no strikers on pitch after taking Abrahams off.
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With the 7 departed scouts & technical staff departing Bruce will know it's the last throw of the dice for him, so he may Surprise us by some more attacking intent in coming games
Snigger.
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What style? What tactics? What formation? It's just a random selection at best.
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I reckon he has got one of those lottery ball machines with the squad numbers on the balls.
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Cast your mind back to last season and Albert Adomah not being in the squad early doors and one goal a year in the team.
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Style, dull
Tactics, defensive
Formation, all over the shop
Close thread.
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Style, dull
Tactics, defensive
Formation, all over the shop
Close thread.
I'd say our tactics were negative as opposed to defensive.
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The best the back four looked all season was Blackburn.
And 3 of the back four changed within 2 games since, mental.
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We have no style, correction a festering corpse has more style.
We have the pace, nous and charisma of a dead slug.
Our tactics and selection are a case of "lets put the names of our players in a hat and throw it up in the air, the first ten out will play in front of the shit goalie I bought in to replace Steer".
Our formation is like a child has got hold of a marker and the "tactics whiteboard" and drew its interpretation of how a dinosaur goes for a shit, and thats wor formation for the next match.
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I reckon he has got one of those lottery ball machines with the squad numbers on the balls.
He couldn't do that properly as not all of the balls found their way into the machine,as those with Bree,DeLaet,Doyle-Hayes,RHM and Elphick's numbers went missing on several occasions.
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We have no style, correction a festering corpse has more style.
We have the pace, nous and charisma of a dead slug.
Our tactics and selection are a case of "lets put the names of our players in a hat and throw it up in the air, the first ten out will play in front of the shit goalie I bought in to replace Steer".
Our formation is like a child has got hold of a marker and the "tactics whiteboard" and drew its interpretation of how a dinosaur goes for a shit, and thats wor formation for the next match.
If only a journalist or better still Bruce said that in a press conference.
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Style, dull
Tactics, defensive
Formation, all over the shop
Close thread.
I'd say our tactics were negative as opposed to defensive.
Yep, it's anti-football, I'm convinced that Bruce would love it if the games were 85 minutes of nothing happening with us sneaking a goal or 2 in the 5 minutes where the game was worth watching.
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I'd settle for dreadful football if the trade off was endless winning.
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I would settle for losing endlessly if we played brilliant football (against top class opposition). I could live with losing every game 4-5 in the Premiership and being relegated with null points as an alternative to the wrist slashing misery we are currently being subjected to.
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Odd.
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Not that odd. I reckon most fans will be fairly happy with either winning all the time or watching good football. Both is ideal, and it probably follows that if you're getting one, you're getting at least a decent amount of the other.
Getting neither is shit.
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Precisely LFS . I would sooner go to a Villa game home or away and cheer four times than go to one and never cheer at all.
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What's good about effectively describing the relegation season?
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Last time I enjoyed watching us weekly was under Sherwood (before Southampton and the cup final). On the front foot, our flair players creativing havoc to the opposition, all the things I want to see us do under the current manager and it's never looked likely bar the odd game in the last two years.
We talk a good game but we've never really looked the giant at this level we should have on the pitch at this level since we've came down.
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I must've nodded off for the good football bit.
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What's good about effectively describing the relegation season?
I missed the bit where we played good football. I thought we were awful.
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I must've nodded off for the good football bit.
Villa 2-1 West Brom
Sunderland 0-4 Villa
Villa 3-3 QPR
Spurs 0-1 Villa (sweet one given our hopeless results against them under Lambert)
Cup semi final.
Villa 3-2 Everton
Villa 1-0 WHU
All good games in which we took the game to opposition and the likes of Grealish, Delph and Benteke were a joy to watch. I'm sure the match threads at the time would support that and not my memory playing tricks. That two month period was a breath of fresh air after the dismal last year of Lambert. Shame things became a car crash from Southampton away.
At least that shows what a new manager with fresh ideas can at least initally do so we still have hope if SB is put out of his misery in next 7 days.
Edit: Apologies if you were actually replying to Ads?!
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I was. That bit under Sherwood was brilliant. The relegation season itself wasn't.
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Even though we lost the 2-3 at Man City was a great performance as well.
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Even though we lost the 2-3 at Man City was a great performance as well.
Well remembered. This was all in a 2 month period after our endless goal droughts aswell. Don't want this to turn into another Sherwood debate as I concede he became well out of his depth when entertaining games like Leicester started going against us, just stating a new manager can quickly make a team exciting again after following a dour one.
I've enjoyed games here and there under SB, who wouldn't enjoy Bristol 5-0 or the Wolves game, but we simply haven't done it often enough considering all the investment and our standing in this league. It really shouldn't be beyond the next one to get us dominanting more games and acting like the Dogs b**ll.. down here.
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I'd settle for dreadful football if the trade off was endless winning.
The problem is that style will never give you endless wins, you'll get streaks where you win a decent amount because you're not conceding goals and you've got 1-2 players who have everything going for them. It's when the defence is't working or the attacking players lose form that you fall apart and it's almost inevitable that it will happen.
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What's good about effectively describing the relegation season?
I missed the bit where we played good football. I thought we were awful.
We were but he describes getting turned over every week which is what happened.
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Its difficult to watch. We have good players but they all seem like round pegs in square holes. We don't have a style to dominate teams like Fulham, Wolves and Cardiff did last season..
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My point is that we went out of the Premiership without a whimper. We were unprepared in every way for the Championship and have floundered plying negative anti football. My case is that given the choice between failing in the Premiership and failing in the Championship with our tail permanently between our legs I would be less unhappy if we actually tried to play attractive winning football. Playing well and losing is infinitely preferable to playing badly and losing.
WHY?
Because if you play well there is the certain hope that you can start to win again.
If you play badly there is the certain expectation that you will start to lose games.
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The best the back four looked all season was Blackburn.
Who’d have thought playing players in their correct positions would have led to this.
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The best the back four looked all season was Blackburn.
Who’d have thought playing players in their correct positions would have led to this.
Shocking wasn't it.
And we were so well prepared we had Jedinak to counter Dack..hmmmm.
So frustrating, a bit of thinking about who we're playing both in terms of opposition and our own 11 would go a miss.
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How the hell has this thread reached 7 pages?
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I'd rather win 1-0 every game than lose 4-5 every game.
I'd rather lose 4-5 every game and be entertained than 0-1 every game being bored shitless waiting for a mistake.
And I'd rather we played good football and won most of our games and at least had given it a go in the games we lost than just trying to scrape results based on individual brilliance.
It's dull, boring, pedestrian football at the moment that clearly isn't very successful. Its testament to just how average this league is that we're as close to the top as we are; and that bodes well for the new manager
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How the hell has this thread reached 7 pages?
Sarcasm. Lots of sarcasm.
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Brucey was talking tactics again after the Bristol match and having Jack Grealish higher up the pitch .
He stated he sees Jack as an inside forward.
He mentioned, like I have, of Liverpool systems of the 3 up front .the 2 wide players who aren't actually wingers . Though he seemed to think it was sane and salah ?!! Not mane and salah in a
4-3-3
He mentioned about Grealish playing higher up so he get involved with goals and assists.
It was put to him how we have 3 wingers on the bench and Bruce replied it's a long season
He really looking at a system to fit Jack into
And essentially he's looking at which players to play where in the front and midfield
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How the hell has this thread reached 7 pages?
Sarcasm. Lots of sarcasm.
And actually because as football fans and supporters we can talk about tactics , styles ,systems or lack of and changes and ways to play even if it's not so evident of identity of Bruce and team .
Bruce says he's convinced that he can get a team that will be up there or thereabouts so tactically we can discuss here what we think we could be doing and also what is or isn't being done.
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Footy with all respect for your tireless zeal, I find no evidence of style, tactics or formation in Villa managed by Steve Bruce. For me it is like one of those faded pictures that you are invited to see a ghostly image on the kitchen wallpaper. Sorry.
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Okay so the tactics seem visibly lacking .
It does not stop us talking on style , formations and tactical play ourselves surely to goodness.
For eg on the very basic level tonight I would like to see a team press from the front have attacking players and players played in their natural positions.
But then I like that every match.
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Okay so the tactics seem are visibly lacking .
It does not stop us talking on style , formations and tactical play ourselves surely to goodness.
For eg on the very basic level tonight I would like to see a team press from the front have attacking players and players played in their natural positions.
But then I like that every match.
fixed
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Okay so the tactics seem are visibly lacking .
It does not stop us talking on style , formations and tactical play ourselves surely to goodness.
For eg on the very basic level tonight I would like to see a team press from the front have attacking players and players played in their natural positions.
But then I like that every match.
fixed
Haha thank you !
So anyways ! The good news is this thread can become more active in discussing tactics !
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How the hell has this thread reached 7 pages?
Sarcasm. Lots of sarcasm.
Feel free to enjoy this thread now under the head coach Smith !!
A short passing game and playing entertaining football !
Will he incorporate the 4-2-3-1 ??
Or more 4-3-3
Fascinating how this is all going to come together and finally can enjoy sine great tactics and debate
Up the villa!!
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I'd guess 433 - its what suit our players
But he needs time. And he needs some new defenders and possibly a keeper
Not sure it's good news for jedinak or Hutton for example
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It's been pointed out by a Brentford fan on talksport that last 3 seasons Brentford are top of league to concede late goals (and like I mentioned hold on to leads )
Fan says that his subs were the cause of this and that he didn't consolidate the leads .
Hmm interesting. And worrying if the case
Jason Cundy saying Brentford caller bitter .
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I'd guess 433 - its what suit our players
But he needs time. And he needs some new defenders and possibly a keeper
Not sure it's good news for jedinak or Hutton for example
Yes a flexibility in this 3 up top and staying up there would be great ..
If smithy playing 4-2-3-1 then :
2 as number 6 players here include: mcginn , Bjarnasson, Whelan Jedinak Lansbury, (find Hourihane less effective here)
and 3 in midfield behind the striker.
It's Grealish at 10 (Hourihane, Lansbury are effective here bolasie too ) and wide Bolaise and El Ghazi or Adomah.
Also Bjarnasson is very effective on left and wouldn't surprise me if he gets a go there sometimes .
Then Kodjia or Abrahams as the central striker.
But what of Hogan (and even Davis) as he's simply a number 9 but could be shifted in on wide attacking position behind the central striker .
What need fine tuning is the style of play and a settled formation with the players .
There are several players that can play in a variety of positions in the front and midfield roles.
I feel confident Smith will utilise them in a far more effective manner than bruce .
Tactically identifiable play a systematic approach with clear roles can see us progress with this squad basically outscoring everyone .
I would favor a fusion of 4--3-3 the 4-2--3-1 thing
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I think so far this season the biggest plus is the at least 1+ goal scored every match .
It's the obky consistency in whatever the game plan was .
Moving forward I think the then will be continuing in the attacking threat and that their will be a more organized system .
A system that will be fixed on attacking .
It will be exciting to to see players making runs and supporting the front striker and not having the isolation of one up front.
Having a clear game plan which is implemented !
That's the stuff I'm expecting .
I mentioned villa will look to outscore teams (generally that's the ideas on how to win football matches) but really I say it's an increased attacking style of play which will limit the opposition attacks.
Notwithstanding the need to defend more compact and resolutely the emphasis on playing to win will go someway in developing the team as a whole.
Even though Brentford run things uniquely I do see Smithy and coaching team looking to develop some ideas they used as well as their own football philosophy in a way that really makes the team hopefully as successful as much as entertaining.
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I never felt the need to nip into this thread since it's started. Maybe now there might be some relevance to the title of this topic.
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I'm wondering whether we need to look at going 3 at the back.
Bree, Chester and Tuanzebe
play Elmo and Albert/El Ghazi as wing backs.
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Nah.
I hate that.
Sorry, it's a Drummond Out from me.
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Who says that if you're going to play with wingers, there has to be two of them. Therefore, how about a lopsided formation:
A Keeper
Four defenders
McGinn Bjarney Hourihane
Jack
Yannick
Tammy Kod(or Hogan)
Jack roaming where he wants and Yannick switching between the two wings.
Should be interesting going forward but I recognise that it could get confusing defensively
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It'll be 4-2-3-1 based on how he has set Brentford up.
Something like...
Blind Orjan
Elmo
Chester
Ax-T
ALANUTTON!
McGinn
One of Hot Lips/Jedi/Whelan according to score, opposition, ambience and how the chakras are aligning
Bolasie
Grealish
Albert/El Ghazi
Abrahams or Kodjia or maybe even Hulk.
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I think Taylor ought to play and he ought to be coached.
He hesitates, which is his biggest weakness. He doesn't commit one way or the other and I think part of that is a fear post Coleman.
He was alright for us for a time.
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I think Taylor ought to play and he ought to be coached.
He hesitates, which is his biggest weakness. He doesn't commit one way or the other and I think part of that is a fear post Coleman.
He was alright for us for a time.
I've been a big critic of Taylor from day 1. But he is an international footballer and I wouldn't be against trying to get him back into some sort of form under the new manager. But I suspect Terry will prefer Hutton having played alongside him last season.
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It'll be 4-2-3-1 based on how he has set Brentford up.
Something like...
Blind Orjan
Elmo
Chester
Ax-T
ALANUTTON!
McGinn
One of Hot Lips/Jedi/Whelan according to score, opposition, ambience and how the chakras are aligning
Bolasie
Grealish
Albert/El Ghazi
Abrahams or Kodjia or maybe even Hulk.
I quite clearly remember Ryan Woods playing as a holding midfielder in the game against them at Villa Park last season, so it would suggest that he is quite flexible when it comes to formations. I wonder if he will look to include one of the young players from the off as a statement of intent.
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I think Taylor ought to play and he ought to be coached.
He hesitates, which is his biggest weakness. He doesn't commit one way or the other and I think part of that is a fear post Coleman.
He was alright for us for a time.
I've been a big critic of Taylor from day 1. But he is an international footballer and I wouldn't be against trying to get him back into some sort of form under the new manager. But I suspect Terry will prefer Hutton having played alongside him last season.
I thought he was solid enough to start off with, but like Elphick, his confidence completely went to the point where he was and (still seemingly is on the evidence of recent performances) a bit of a liability.
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I'm wondering whether we need to look at going 3 at the back.
Bree, Chester and Tuanzebe
play Elmo and Albert/El Ghazi as wing backs.
I have to agree with Drummond, during our pre season when spudface thought the club was about to go tits up financially, we played a 3 5 2 type formation, and used De Laet as a wing back (and he was probably one of our better players throughout pre season) and played the kids.
As soon as the new money came in, he reverted to type and fucked over De Laet and the kids.
One thing I'd like to know, with the new management, could we get some of our loan outs back?
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I never felt the need to nip into this thread since it's started. Maybe now there might be some relevance to the title of this topic.
Well yes on a Brentford site it would be overflowing .
However I do feel generally there certainly more room for more debate and comment on stats, styles , formation and tactics with Smithy on board.
According to sky sports and the stats they brought up "Smith is more than capable of improving the style at Villa"
And the stats indicate "these are all points that would indicate a better more exciting brand of football"
Since start of last season up to international break in comparison to villa
2,000 more passes
2,000 more pass attempts
2,000 more short passes attempted
220 more shots
51 more shots on target
And average possession in favor Brentford 57 % to 52 %
Brentford attempted fewer crosses 760 to Villa 1,014
The main thing is improving the style of play.
Season 17/18
We know Villa finished 4th.
(14 points ahead of Brentford)
Villa had 10 more goals scored and 10 less conceded a GD of 30 (Brentford 10)
Hopefully with the technical individuals shooting , passing and possession will all be improved .
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What were the stats.
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I'm wondering whether we need to look at going 3 at the back.
Bree, Chester and Tuanzebe
play Elmo and Albert/El Ghazi as wing backs.
I have to agree with Drummond, during our pre season when spudface thought the club was about to go tits up financially, we played a 3 5 2 type formation, and used De Laet as a wing back (and he was probably one of our better players throughout pre season) and played the kids.
As soon as the new money came in, he reverted to type and fucked over De Laet and the kids.
One thing I'd like to know, with the new management, could we get some of our loan outs back?
I think it depends how long the loans are for what the terms of the loan deals are.
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What were the stats.
There's a breakdown if exact numbers mentioned in this article .
I tried to include as image here but was too big ?! So have posted link for you (and anyone else interested)
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11677/11523465/what-will-dean-smith-bring-to-aston-villa
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He played 4231 or 4141 most of the time
Key differences from Bruce:
More reliance on a deep lying playmaker than a ball winner at the base of midfield (tho given our defence this is clearly a risk)
Wide forwards play narrower and higher rather than wider and coming back more. They don't cross the ball much whereas Bruce's villa crossed more than anyone
Full backs more pushed on.
It's my kind of football. But there will be a transition spell. I'm very confident our attacking players can play that way. The defence is the problem as we know. Can they cope being that exposed ?
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Dean Smith has the idea of having a team of skippers something he introduced at Brentford this season.
"As a manager you go through your captain all the time — but by doing that you’re missing other people who could have leadership qualities.
“The modern world is more about collective leadership and leadership groups.
“Look at rugby. They take a lot of collective responsibility — the forward pack, the backs, the lineouts, the calls.
“I want everybody involved, otherwise you’re just creating followers rather than leaders.”
The ones who had been captain enjoyed the responsibility.
“It got them talking more about leadership and what it means to them and what responsibilities they must take on board.”
Smith believes footballers improve more in an educational environment.
For example, he renamed the Analysis Room at Brentford, where post-match debriefs were held, as The Learning Zone.
He said: “Everyone, myself included, is still learning.
“I tell players, ‘There you go, it’s your debrief’. I get them to do it.
“It gives them the opportunity to discuss the game.
“It’s interesting to see how they think the game turned out in their eyes. Also, it takes them out of their comfort zones, as it’s always hard to talk in front of your peers
"I want them asking me questions because there’s nothing worse than telling them to do something and they go out and think, ‘Why does he want me do that?’”
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Love that last line!
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For example, he renamed the Analysis Room at Brentford, where post-match debriefs were held, as The Learning Zone.
This is the sort of thing that gets praised when it goes well. When it doesn't it gets ridiculed. I hope our players embrace it. Glad that the likes of Gabby aren't around and more.
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For example, he renamed the Analysis Room at Brentford, where post-match debriefs were held, as The Learning Zone.
This is the sort of thing that gets praised when it goes well. When it doesn't it gets ridiculed. I hope our players embrace it. Glad that the likes of Gabby aren't around and more.
First of all the staff are going to have figure our where the hell the Analysis room is and then its going to take a cleanup of gigantic proportions before we can think about renaming it.
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Of course the Calibre of players and that the plethora of mainly established players some of international variety I hope doesn't prevent players wanting to go on and better themselves in ' learning '.
It's all about embracing methods.
If anything it's opportunity for Whelan , Elmo, Jedinak , Hutton to have new angle on things .
Kodjia can develop his awareness and passing I hope . Though he's already a developed class player.
Similarly the younger players can benefit and should be most grateful and receptive. That would include Grealish and Mcginn.
Hogan, lansbury , Hourihane , Chester and Taylor are ones where have they reached their levels?
I mean we may not have always seen the best of all of them all the time but in general career wise how much more developed can these guys become ?
Played in effective roles and their passing , shooting and general footy skillz being more focus I hope all the squad grow and learn.
I feel hopeful that Bjarnasson would be one who embraces and thrives with new methods despite the national team being one that plays longer passes! .
Oh and despite the relative success bolasie can hopefully improve his shooting ! (Along with Grealish and mcginn)
And Kodija his passing !
Exciting and interesting times ahead !
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For example, he renamed the Analysis Room at Brentford, where post-match debriefs were held, as The Learning Zone.
This is the sort of thing that gets praised when it goes well. When it doesn't it gets ridiculed. I hope our players embrace it. Glad that the likes of Gabby aren't around and more.
First of all the staff are going to have figure our where the hell the Analysis room is and then its going to take a cleanup of gigantic proportions before we can think about renaming it.
Evict Richards from the comedy room/easy lounge and turn it back into it's original use.
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Yeah, what about Birkir for the ''quarter-back'' role?
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For example, he renamed the Analysis Room at Brentford, where post-match debriefs were held, as The Learning Zone.
This is the sort of thing that gets praised when it goes well. When it doesn't it gets ridiculed. I hope our players embrace it. Glad that the likes of Gabby aren't around and more.
First of all the staff are going to have figure our where the hell the Analysis room is and then its going to take a cleanup of gigantic proportions before we can think about renaming it.
Yes, I imagine our Analysis Room is like Miss Havisham's house. A dark, cavernous, walk-in cupboard of cobwebs, only instead of an elderly bride there's a skeleton in a swivel chair clutching a dusty tome called 'Association Football' by someone like Major R.W. Lofthouse, which is open at the chapter on throw-ins.
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For example, he renamed the Analysis Room at Brentford, where post-match debriefs were held, as The Learning Zone.
This is the sort of thing that gets praised when it goes well. When it doesn't it gets ridiculed. I hope our players embrace it. Glad that the likes of Gabby aren't around and more.
First of all the staff are going to have figure our where the hell the Analysis room is and then its going to take a cleanup of gigantic proportions before we can think about renaming it.
Yes, I imagine our Analysis Room is like Miss Havisham's house. A dark, cavernous, walk-in cupboard of cobwebs, only instead of an elderly bride there's a skeleton in a swivel chair clutching a dusty tome called 'Association Football' by someone like Major R.W. Lofthouse, which is open at the chapter on throw-ins.
(https://i.imgflip.com/2k3xfu.jpg) (https://imgflip.com/i/2k3xfu)
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For example, he renamed the Analysis Room at Brentford, where post-match debriefs were held, as The Learning Zone.
This is the sort of thing that gets praised when it goes well. When it doesn't it gets ridiculed. I hope our players embrace it. Glad that the likes of Gabby aren't around and more.
First of all the staff are going to have figure our where the hell the Analysis room is and then its going to take a cleanup of gigantic proportions before we can think about renaming it.
Yes, I imagine our Analysis Room is like Miss Havisham's house. A dark, cavernous, walk-in cupboard of cobwebs, only instead of an elderly bride there's a skeleton in a swivel chair clutching a dusty tome called 'Association Football' by someone like Major R.W. Lofthouse, which is open at the chapter on throw-ins.
I laugh-snorted and got wine on my jumper.
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Yeah, what about Birkir for the ''quarter-back'' role?
Too many bookings for handball
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Having been at the game on Saturday and seeing what looked like an approach based on keeping the ball rather than counter attacking, it has got me thinking about which formation is going to suit us going forward and which players are going to be more suited to that style.
If we are looking at playing a more flexible system based on keeping the ball, then I'm not really sure that is going to suit the likes of Adomah and Kodjia. I thought Abraham looked a little isolated at times on Saturday and would like to see Grealish in particular a bit further forward and playing off him. I just wonder whether we can develop a system something like the one below over the coming months:
Nyland
Hutton Tuanzebe Chester Taylor
Whelan
Bjarnason McGinn
El Ghazi Abraha Grealish
I've put El Ghazi in there as I think he would be worth a look in a system like that (O'Hare might be as well) and Whelan as I think he is a bit better on the ball than Jedinak. With El Ghazi and Grealish tucked in a bit, the emphasis would be on the full-backs to get forward and provide the width. I think Elmohamady, Hutton and Bree would be capable of doing that on the right, but Taylor is more of a defensive full-back so we would need to bring in a more attacking minded left back in January.
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The tactical talking in the post match interview is what we wanted !
Great talk about overloads , structures and systems.
And also about the energy and pressing and having a go from the off .
Heard Smithy talk about working on set pieces in defending however noticeable struggle in dealing with crosses and Mcburnie winning headers.
Also would like more movement into the box as well as Taylor who was flying forward to be used on over lap.
Albert Adomah seemed not to link up when given chance to Taylor who did the overload
Crosses from the by line by left foot on left side can bring some rewards
Grealish does need to drive forward and be far more decisive as does Adomah.
Regards bolasie and kodjia they are players who aren't designed to defend and are flair footy skillz types who should be players who are expressing themselves on the ball. Closing down could be improved but these 2 I feel are massive game changers and up their with best attacking players in league if not the best .
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Only Man City have scored more league goals in the top four divisions in 2018 than Aston villa
Man City - 71 the VILLA - 61!
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To improve as a team with ball retention the passing needs to improve with several players .
Overall the whole team have been "a bit loose" with passing and also as Deano says make more of the turnovers in possession.
I took upon myself from stats who scores.com to look at further the passing success of current squad.
In smithy and coaching team we will look to develop and improve their passing abilities .
Some Villa players are below 80%
This is a big issue to the style of play for smithys Villa.
The player who is most needing improvement is Abrahams 63.5% and lowest rate of successful passes. He's the only one who is in his 60 percenters. Maybe to do previous system played and lack of support but also his inexperience and still learning . In this case it's a combination as he's a recognised talent and 4 goals in 7 matches. Just something to look at though his relative low passing success. ( Will keep eye on him tonight regards this)
We certainly think will look to be improved as the player and team develop .
So of the other players,
Well here they are:
70% levels
Jedinak 73 4%
Taylor 74.9%
Tuanzebe 75.4%
Elmohamedys 77%
Alan Hutton 77.4%
Bjarnasson 78.5%
Adomah 79.9 %
---------------------
80%
McGinn 81 3%
Kodija 82.8%
Hourihane 85.5 %
--------------
Grealish and Chester are at 87% levels.
The levels of other squad members at this time are negligible due to minutes playing time and the average successful passing numbers
(Though Glenn Whelan in 3 matches , one more than Taylor (74%), has 90% and could be someone smithy favors for 'resting' on the ball and keeping things ticking over however that's one for debate .)
Grealish and Chester having a high % of successful passing would be down to them being perhaps the best players at the club and their roles in the team. Stats indicate and decent level of passing consistency.
However you would like to think
1. JG JC will be pushed to 90%+ passing
2. The other players will be pushed to raise their levels to 85%+ and above
3. Abrahams to develop all round game and make better passing as 63.5% is too low .
4. The raise of levels in successful passing will help with defending ! And conceding less goals .
5. Only 41% of GK Nyland distribution makes it to a villa player hopefully with a gk coach coming in then can look to improve his all round game and passing abilities.
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Looked at stats v Swansea
5 outfield players had below 80% passing accuracy.
Abrahams at 47% successful passing .
Lowest in team and not even half his passes making a team mate.
Kodija was next with 66.7 %
And Elmohamedys 71.4 and hutton 73.9 in passing accuracy.
McGinn who does win the ball back a heck of a lot was at 76.7
At top end had Grealish 92.7% and Chester 96.4% the 2 that smithy can relie on in ball playing .
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Not going to quote the whole thing but I generally think that, as backwards as it sounds, working on passing starts without the ball. Knowing where people are going to run and how they like to receive the ball is the most difficult thing, getting people passing accurately over 10-15m is the easy bit.
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Not going to quote the whole thing but I generally think that, as backwards as it sounds, working on passing starts without the ball. Knowing where people are going to run and how they like to receive the ball is the most difficult thing, getting people passing accurately over 10-15m is the easy bit.
There was an atrocious lack of kicking a football technique on display on Saturday.
Albert, Abraham’s Tunzabee made some simple passes look difficult.
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Maintaining possession of the ball and a passing game are the defining characteristic and idea for the villa way under Smith but also making more forward moves as well as the work villa do off the ball.
Yesterday despite the loss to norwich
Stats read :
Passes
482 Total 522
23 Crosses 28
0 Through Balls 1
67 Long Balls 68
392 Short Passes 425
Possession wise slightly more at 52%
But only 1 of 8 shots on target .
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Not going to quote the whole thing but I generally think that, as backwards as it sounds, working on passing starts without the ball. Knowing where people are going to run and how they like to receive the ball is the most difficult thing, getting people passing accurately over 10-15m is the easy bit.
I think you're right and we've been awful at this for a long, long time (see throw-ins too). Whether it's because they've been told to rigidly stay in position, whether they aren't clever enough or what, I don't know. It's bloody frustrating though.
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Forget the full backs and wingers - none of them are up to it through a combination of lack of ability and fitness.
Go 3 - 4 - 3.
Chester - Tuanzebe - Jedinak
el-ahmadi - bjarnesson - grealish - mcginn
kodija - hogan - abrahams
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Forget the full backs and wingers - none of them are up to it through a combination of lack of ability and fitness.
Go 3 - 4 - 3.
Chester - Tuanzebe - Jedinak
el-ahmadi - bjarnesson - grealish - mcginn
kodija - hogan - abrahams
So you'd displace our most effective striker for a lamp-post and move our best midfielder out to the wing? Sorry mate, but I hate this side.
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Forget the full backs and wingers - none of them are up to it through a combination of lack of ability and fitness.
Go 3 - 4 - 3.
Chester - Tuanzebe - Jedinak
el-ahmadi - bjarnesson - grealish - mcginn
kodija - hogan - abrahams
So you'd displace our most effective striker for a lamp-post and move our best midfielder out to the wing? Sorry mate, but I hate this side.
And we’ve resigned El-Ahmadi..!?
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Smithy asks a lot of the front 3 and midfield 3 and demands a "high intensity of running from the players " and thinks "it's only sensible to rotate at times "
Smith: "we have a talented squad and we ve encouraged then in training to become more tactically astute when playing and they have taken a lot more responsibility of that and that's been pleasing "
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Forget the full backs and wingers - none of them are up to it through a combination of lack of ability and fitness.
Go 3 - 4 - 3.
Chester - Tuanzebe - Jedinak
el-ahmadi - bjarnesson - grealish - mcginn
kodija - hogan - abrahams
So you'd displace our most effective striker for a lamp-post and move our best midfielder out to the wing? Sorry mate, but I hate this side.
And we’ve resigned El-Ahmadi..!?
my mistake - elmohamady
wasn't particularly trying to say where the front 3 would line up - other than abrahams and hogan centrally and kodija wider or floating around ...
either way they're our best 11 players - why not try and make a team/formation out of them - because what I've seen of everything else thats been tried has been a glaring failure so far.
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1 QPR Aston villa 0
Formation:
Started as 4-4-1-1 with Abraham striker and Kodjia wide left.
Grealish as Number 10
Bjarnasson and Mcginn midfield and Elmohamedy wide right attacker .
John Mcginnn was guilty of lossing ball most being dispossessed 5 times and was loose in his passing with only a 71% passing accuracy.
Despite his drive and energy he lacked composure and quality at times on the ball.
Bolasie came on to replace Elmo and provide a stronger attacking threat
He played wide forward left and also came over to right side.
He had mixed impact
had 2 shots- both on target.
19 touches and gave a way the ball 50% of the time.
He did 6 passes
Made 6 crosses (2 accurate) in 30 minutes play (same number as elmohamedys in 60 minutes)
Possession and passing wise Villa style was to dominate and play the ball
32% Possession 68%
Passes
276 Total 587
206 Short Passes 487
63% Pass Success 85%
16 Shots 18
7 Shots on target 5
Grealish had most shots 6 with 1 on target.
Abraham 4 shots
McGinn 3 shots
Tuanzebe 2 shots both on target
Bolasie 2 shots both on target
Kodjia 1 shot.
From 5 combined shots Abrahams and Kodjia failed to get a shot on target .
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I've mentioned my thing about 3s before. If we can get 18 shots a game we'll score a couple per game on average, the quality of the chances clearly makes a difference but those numbers suggest we're not far away going forward. We need to make it harder for teams to get chances though, conceding 7 shots on target in a game is pretty poor. I honestly think our biggest problem is our play without the ball though, we have a few players with serious concentration issues and our attacking players spend too much time on their heels waiting for the ball.
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There are many ways of playing out from the back. Look at man city going straight from keeper to Augero on a long diagonal. What disappointed me last night is that we didn't play one longer diagonal over the top. With our front 3, I'm sure this would have been effective. QPR wanted us to play in front of them and narrow and we dually obliged. That's why despite controlling the play we didn't create too many clear chances.
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I like how Smithy talks about having ideas in how to handle the varying opposition . This head coach and his coaching team recognise that teams play differently and acts on it.
Like how the setting of traps and pressing is slowly being understood and come to fruition was really apparent vs derby .
Smithy spoke in having Abrahams move on to Huddleston second half stop him with ball made him more tom hiddlestone .
The derby centre halves had to be on ball and that was pressured. There were less effective and limited in options .
Just felt from what I saw the passing abd included along the wing , and pressing of space we're two key areas which villa excelled.
What's encouraging is that smithy recognise opposition style and uses team and players strength to counter it.
Also what was so super was the playing away in a positive manner and a positive result.
Up the villa!
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Forget the full backs and wingers - none of them are up to it through a combination of lack of ability and fitness.
Go 3 - 4 - 3.
Chester - Tuanzebe - Jedinak
el-ahmadi - bjarnesson - grealish - mcginn
kodija - hogan - abrahams
So you'd displace our most effective striker for a lamp-post and move our best midfielder out to the wing? Sorry mate, but I hate this side.
And we’ve resigned El-Ahmadi..!?
my mistake - elmohamady
wasn't particularly trying to say where the front 3 would line up - other than abrahams and hogan centrally and kodija wider or floating around ...
either way they're our best 11 players - why not try and make a team/formation out of them - because what I've seen of everything else thats been tried has been a glaring failure so far.
Hogan isn't even the best footballer in his own house.
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Forget the full backs and wingers - none of them are up to it through a combination of lack of ability and fitness.
Go 3 - 4 - 3.
Chester - Tuanzebe - Jedinak
el-ahmadi - bjarnesson - grealish - mcginn
kodija - hogan - abrahams
No thanks!
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Forget the full backs and wingers - none of them are up to it through a combination of lack of ability and fitness.
Go 3 - 4 - 3.
Chester - Tuanzebe - Jedinak
el-ahmadi - bjarnesson - grealish - mcginn
kodija - hogan - abrahams
No thanks!
I think that's literally about the worst combination of players I could imagine putting put, without actually putting Neil Taylor in goal and Micah Richards up front!
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Every time I read about ‘setting traps’ I can’t help think of Claude Greengrass
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Every time I read about ‘setting traps’ I can’t help think of Claude Greengrass
I wish someone could explain it to me TBH
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Forget the full backs and wingers - none of them are up to it through a combination of lack of ability and fitness.
Go 3 - 4 - 3.
Chester - Tuanzebe - Jedinak
el-ahmadi - bjarnesson - grealish - mcginn
kodija - hogan - abrahams
No thanks!
It's a no from me as well. Wouldn't be adverse to playing 3 at the back if the personnel was right (we would need another centre half and left wing-back before even considering it) and unlike previous incumbents, the management team actually knew how to implement the system properly and worked on it in training. Though I prefer four at the back, a 3-4-3 might be interesting if it looked something like:
Nyland
Chester Tuanzebe New CB
Elmohamady Bjarnason McGinn New LWB
Bolasie Abraham Grealish
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My original post referred to making the best of the players we actually had available.
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My original post referred to making the best of the players we actually had available.
Then it would be a no from me as we haven't really got the players to play on the left of the back three or at left wing-back.
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Example of a trap on Saturday was to let Keogh have the ball unmolested.
Defensively it worked as we ensured their full backs were marked and not an outlet ball. Tammy dropping deeper second half completely stopped Fat Tom having any influence and meant Keogh lumped it.
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Hark at us talking about setting traps as if we’d even heard of it before Dean Smith came along.
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Hark at us talking about setting traps as if we’d even heard of it before Dean Smith came along.
We all know it’s just posh talk for rolling your sleeves up. Some of us put our boots on as well - this’ll never catch on.
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Hark at us talking about setting traps as if we’d even heard of it before Dean Smith came along.
We all know it’s just posh talk for rolling your sleeves up. Some of us put our boots on as well - this’ll never catch on.
I'm a bit annoyed with Bruce for merely 'asking' them to put their boots on. Some sort of system should have been in place to ensure that they complied. The refs have a question to answer too.
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Every time I read about ‘setting traps’ I can’t help think of Claude Greengrass
I wish someone could explain it to me TBH
Or Seth Armstrong and Zak Dingle.
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Hark at us talking about setting traps as if we’d even heard of it before Dean Smith came along.
You're aware of the offside trap!?
It's the same concept !
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Every time I read about ‘setting traps’ I can’t help think of Claude Greengrass
I wish someone could explain it to me TBH
Essentially a deliberate press of space in order to gain advantage, control and manage the play .
Strategy is to confuse and tactically out do the opposition. They will be forced into making mistakes in giving away possession of the football .
Thank you and good night.
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Hark at us talking about setting traps as if we’d even heard of it before Dean Smith came along.
You're aware of the offside trap!?
It's the same concept !
Everyone is suddenly an expert on traps.
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Hark at us talking about setting traps as if we’d even heard of it before Dean Smith came along.
You're aware of the offside trap!?
It's the same concept !
Everyone is suddenly an expert on traps.
I'm a bit of a dab hand with mole traps if anyone wants any tips.
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Hark at us talking about setting traps as if we’d even heard of it before Dean Smith came along.
You're aware of the offside trap!?
It's the same concept !
Everyone is suddenly an expert on traps.
I'm a bit of a dab hand with mole traps if anyone wants any tips.
There's only one way to get rid of a mole......
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Have a rat gnaw it off?
(https://www.albumofhollywood.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/765f2f74347b21cf34468b02aeda7f14.png)
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Liverpool were using this almost forty years ago!
Ian Rush would plod along up front with no apparent interest until the chance came to close down the 'right' defender. Suddenly Ian would reveal some killer pace, win the ball, let Kenny have it 25 yards from goal and away they went...
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Passing since start of season .
Overall in championship Villa have 3rd highest possession of ball in matches at 54.7%
(Leeds,59% Brentford 56%)
And the 2nd highest over all passing accuracy 79.9%
(Swansea best 81%)
Villa are 81% accurate at home in passing
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I've been thinking that our defence, and Nyland in particular will be filled with confidence with Smith in charge. With Bruce it was all about not conceding and nicking one to win a match, with Smith it's about playing the ball, if you concede fair enough let's score two.
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Attacking style of play is far more evident and it's noted in the stats on shots per game.
Dean Smith Era overall shots per game average is 14.5.
That's second only to Leeds at 15.4
We are now slightly higher on average than
(Brentford 14.4 , Derby 14.2 , WBA 14.2, Norwich 14)
At home villa shots
11 Swansea (5 target) 1 goal
17 Bolton (3 target) 2 goals
12 Blues (5 target) 4 goals
Away from home shooting
8 norwich (1 target) 1 goal.
18 QPR (5 target) 0 goal
21 Derby (5 target) 3 goals
Another time I'll look at % of goals target ratios.
Certainly in last 3 matches
Bolton Derby, blues Villa are now scoring more when they hit the target.
Smithy talked about QPR match and how he was pleased with performance. 18 shots 5 on target 0 goals
It's clear to see now that when shots have been on target in the following matches they are scoring them with a higher frequency.
Shots on target resulted in goal v Bolton (2 goals in 3)
60% shots on target goal v derby
(3 goals in 5)
80% shots on target goal v blues
(4 goals in 5)
The beauty is the players are talking the big chances created.
And that they are adapting well to Smith method regarding too possession.
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During the match v Boro away we took a risk of overloading at set play / corners and resulted in goals.
It paid dividends and villa got goals due to positions in the final third with midfielder or the wide strikers.
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So Smith and Bruce have both been in charge for 12 games.
Under Smith we've scored 6 more goals. (avg 2.17 goals per game), secured 6 more points and had 5 more clean sheets.
Smith is averaging 1.75 points per game. If he continues at that rate we'll finish on 76 points.
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With Bruce you could argue it could very well have been less given how many games we just scraped a win or draw. Think Wigan, Blackburn and Brentford. For Smith think how many games we’ve blown late and points dropped having played really well. The variance between the two managers is wider than the stats reveal.
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Five more clean sheets?! Bruce mustn't have had any..
Also, did you count Millwall as a a Bruce game?
Deano's run has seen us play far tougher opposition too.
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We had one clean sheet in the league this season under Bruce, which was Rotherham, after which he gave it the big one.
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We really were ignorant no nothing tossers in the eyes of Bruce. He was so right lauding up our magnificent display vs World Club Champions Rotherham United.
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In fairness if I was a manager i'd be saying this sort of thing after beating Real Rotherham at home.
“I have got four promotions, last year I nearly had a fifth. Yet I don’t know what I am doing?
"Unfortunately it filters through the mad few.
“We are Villa and the expectation and belief is huge but common sense is needed.
“The vast majority of supporters are right behind what we are trying to do. You can feel it in the stadium. If they wanted me out, the stadium would have erupted with it before the start.
“The supporters can see we had a bloody awful performance at Sheffield. Now we are sitting in sixth. I hope it shuts a few up. But I doubt it.”
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Good tactical breakdown of Bruce vs Smith via Villa Report/Total Football Analysis:
https://totalfootballanalysis.com/head-coach-analysis/dean-smith-aston-villa-tactical-analysis-statistics
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I haven’t read it but is the Bruce section any more than one page with a picture of a bloke with sleeves rolled up?
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There was something about ‘giving it a good go’.
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It's all too common now villa losing points , the most on league.
It's very frustrating.
I like smithy and his coaching ethos but I was weary of his Brentford negligence which is happening at Villa .
Maybe as I say frustrated as what to be fair.
It's the closing out of matches or finishing teams off which is annoying
Also as mentioned in Preston thread what's JT coaching role as if it's to do with defence strategy and organizing it needs to be somewhat flagged .
Just because it's JT he hasn't had the question on his role.
Now I'm questioning his defence coaching sessions
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It's all too common now villa losing points , the most on league.
It's very frustrating.
I like smithy and his coaching ethos but I was weary of his Brentford negligence which is happening at Villa .
Maybe as I say frustrated as what to be fair.
It's the closing out of matches or finishing teams off which is annoying
Also as mentioned in Preston thread what's JT coaching role as if it's to do with defence strategy and organizing it needs to be somewhat flagged .
Just because it's JT he hasn't had the question on his role.
Now I'm questioning his defence coaching sessions
I think that'a touch harsh. I defended a lot of the team at the start of season saying I thought they'd be better with decent coaching but with the current defence reverse of that is true, the sheer lack of numbers and quality in the defence means it's hard to judge the coaches and manager on it until they've had a chance to address some of those problems. We have a keeper, we have Tommy on the books again, if we add a competent left back, a left-sided centre back and a proper Defensive midfielder then we can start to see how things look.
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It's all too common now villa losing points , the most on league.
It's very frustrating.
I like smithy and his coaching ethos but I was weary of his Brentford negligence which is happening at Villa .
Maybe as I say frustrated as what to be fair.
It's the closing out of matches or finishing teams off which is annoying
Also as mentioned in Preston thread what's JT coaching role as if it's to do with defence strategy and organizing it needs to be somewhat flagged .
Just because it's JT he hasn't had the question on his role.
Now I'm questioning his defence coaching sessions
Can't polish poo poos
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I don't know how well qualified Terry will be to coach defence in a high pressing team
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It's all too common now villa losing points , the most on league.
It's very frustrating.
I like smithy and his coaching ethos but I was weary of his Brentford negligence which is happening at Villa .
Maybe as I say frustrated as what to be fair.
It's the closing out of matches or finishing teams off which is annoying
Also as mentioned in Preston thread what's JT coaching role as if it's to do with defence strategy and organizing it needs to be somewhat flagged .
Just because it's JT he hasn't had the question on his role.
Now I'm questioning his defence coaching sessions
It's difficult to close out games if your weakness is defence. The last thing you can afford to do is invite teams on to you. What we do not have at the moment are players that can retain possession. If we do not continue to press forward and score goals at the moment, the inevitable will happen.
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There is an under lying issue with Smith about closing out matches.
Brentford was an issue and an issue at villa.
That said as better players development then hope can be resolved.
I think it's nature of how want to play .
On front foot winning and scoring goals as much as it is poor defensive organisation.
However the midfield and winger roles in covering and defending positions need address last 15 mins.
Also some Brentford fans question Smith's subs and tactics in matches when leading.
The great thing is man wants to learn and he won't be happy with what's happening
It's not just personnel that can rectify though I optimistic and hopeful Smith can get this right and get the team closing off matches
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What do you think, tactically you can do to stop a team handling it twice to score and a player of vast experience heading it directly to the opposition.
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What do you think, tactically you can do to stop a team handling it twice to score and a player of vast experience heading it directly to the opposition.
Don't keep picking a player in Elmo, who despite his vast experience, must have cost about 8 points in recent times.
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There is an under lying issue with Smith about closing out matches.
Brentford was an issue and an issue at villa.
That said as better players development then hope can be resolved.
I think it's nature of how want to play .
On front foot winning and scoring goals as much as it is poor defensive organisation.
However the midfield and winger roles in covering and defending positions need address last 15 mins.
Also some Brentford fans question Smith's subs and tactics in matches when leading.
The great thing is man wants to learn and he won't be happy with what's happening
It's not just personnel that can rectify though I optimistic and hopeful Smith can get this right and get the team closing off matches
We regularly conceded late under MoN.
I think it's too early to judge Smith on this as it's only been 3 games and with out keeper and defence, we're susceptible to conceding at any point. Let's see if it's a problem between now and May as I am hopeful of vast improvement.
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When our 4th choice right-back is currently playing Centre-back, I'm not sure who other than Elmohamady we could have realistically played at right-back for the past few games.
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What do you think, tactically you can do to stop a team handling it twice to score and a player of vast experience heading it directly to the opposition.
Close down spaces , stop supply . Have a more defensive minded nature ?
Possession football.
Depends but it's how a coach wants to play it and the players at his disposal.
At times this open nature of the villa play can be a hindrance as much as a delight seemingly.
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What do you think, tactically you can do to stop a team handling it twice to score and a player of vast experience heading it directly to the opposition.
Close down spaces , stop supply . Have a more defensive minded nature ?
Possession football.
Depends but it's how a coach wants to play it and the players at his disposal.
At times this open nature of the villa play can be a hindrance as much as a delight seemingly.
Give him time - You didn't see Brentford conceding many last gasp goals.
The open nature of Villa's play has been a Godsend after the torture of watching Bruceball for 2 years. As a bonus, even with your criticisms, we've still reaped more points than we had under Bruce.
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It suits circumstances to say injuries and inherited squad .
If had picked up more points then this wouldnt be an issues.
In terms of fairness I take on board the situation and things could have gone a lot worse but also better.
I do know think on right track and there is far more offensive tactically astute coaching being displayed .
The balance hopefully will come with time.
Ip the villa and happy New year
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What do you think, tactically you can do to stop a team handling it twice to score and a player of vast experience heading it directly to the opposition.
Close down spaces , stop supply . Have a more defensive minded nature ?
Possession football.
Depends but it's how a coach wants to play it and the players at his disposal.
At times this open nature of the villa play can be a hindrance as much as a delight seemingly.
You cannot coach to avoid a goal that would have been disallowed in rugby. You cannot coach for utter stupidity either. As Russo says, you get rid, only we can't.
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Ah if only only Russo was actually Rene Russo and not some Villa supporting internet forum gasbag called Risso...
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John Mcginnn should play the deep lying midfielder role
He could be coached to play that position but also still drive forward.
I rather him than Hourihane there - he could be further forward
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The system needs yo be adapted to the players we have
I don't think there are enough footballers and ball players who can play Smith style currently
The hunger and fitness lacking in pressing .
Having the players watch man city v liverpool may not have inspired them that much as they are already established and perhaps other methods are needed.
I all for Smith and his footballing philosophy but I can't abide the like for like substitution and the lack of flexibility in the system with one central striker .
It's a long term project this one
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The system needs yo be adapted to the players we have
I don't think there are enough footballers and ball players who can play Smith style currently
The hunger and fitness lacking in pressing .
Having the players watch man city v liverpool may not have inspired them that much as they are already established and perhaps other methods are needed.
I all for Smith and his footballing philosophy but I can't abide the like for like substitution and the lack of flexibility in the system with one central striker .
It's a long term project this one
Subs today where just baffling
1)Using all 3 at once with non being an extra attacker with losing a game ...
2) Cant control midfield due to oppositions pressing so bring on Whelan ...
3) Waste a sub on a cb to try and play out of defence despite Midfield being woeful and bring on a player who hasn't played in months
We had lost MF we might as well added another striker and gone more direct
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Even though he went 4-4-2 in the cup I don't see Smith altering this formation he loves.
As many here say we haven't got the players at theoment to fit and suit
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From the Villa website:
Dean Smith, once again, showed his tactical awareness as he ensured victory over Ipswich Town.
Smith explained post-game that he switched to two holding midfielders in the 2-1 win – Conor Hourihane and Glenn Whelan – leaving John McGinn in the No.10 role, enabling him to advance further up the pitch.
He told us: “I tweaked the system a little bit.
“I wanted to be a little bit more solid in our transitions, so played Conor Hourihane and Glenn Whelan together. It allowed John McGinn to go and play as a No.10.
“I thought he optimised that with his runs and his energy. He created a lot of chances for himself and others.”
Our Head Coach was even calculating in his choice of subs, opting for Callum O’Hare on the bench rather than Birkir Bjarnason, knowing that he needed requisite cover in the more forward role in case of injury to McGinn.
He added: “I decided to leave BB out of the squad. I thought it might be a game for Callum because of the switch in system. I had the idea that I might be able to put Callum on. I also had Mile coming back.”
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We have to adapt our style of play and I think we're all agreed, the way Smith's previous teams have played is what we'd like.
So what's the point of him changing this style because the players struggle? It's short-term thinking.
The players need to do it, learn it, play it or fuck-off and we'll get players in that do want to learn and adapt. If you look at the top division now it's littered with clubs who've made those changes and have squads of ok players who do what they are told and the team benefits.
Even Guardiola has a system and forces the players to play it, if they don't he drops them or gets rid.
We need to see if our current crop will do it. I'll wager there won't be many that do, but I trust Smith to get it right and to stick to his principles.
But I want us to do well right now too.
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Needs a change in formation and tactics. We are far too one dimensional and there aren't any option for players on the ball. We are back to how we were under Bruce where the the ball just gets shovelled out wide in the hope that someone out there can produce a bit of magic.
We simply need to get more players in central attacking areas, even if that means we sacrifice the defensive midfielder. In all honesty, Whelan and Jedinak (along with a few others) can only produce anywhere near the required intensity in 20 minute bursts, so I don't think we would be losing much anyway. We could always play a diamond if we wanted to keep a defensive midfielder anyway.
I would maybe look at bringing a formation that brings another striker in and give Abraham a bit more freedom. A diamond or even a 3-5-2 would allow us two options up front and a player in behind. With Mings now at the club and when Tuanzebe comes back, I think we would have the mobility to possibly play 3 at the back.
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The problem is the best way to address those problems isn't to change shape but to have better fullbacks. Hutton wasn't awful yesterday but he also didn't really do the job you want from a full back in a high tempo, high possession game, which is to make the pitch as wide as possible and punish them with crosses if they leave him space. Taylor on the other hand is fucking awful, easily the worst player on the pitch yesterday (and given how fucked Jedi looked that's saying something).
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Over this absolutely beautiful 8 match winning run there has been some absolutely stylish footy going on and some beaut tactics !
I have to say not many coaches go with 2 attacking players like Smith did midweek when effective sub of Kodjia at half time made after going down to 10 men and being a goal down.
This is what we now have a manager who wants to attack and win matches.
Its absolutely class what Smith is doing with our football club and the way going about matches and playing to win !
(Reminder is on as we speak of Bruce sheff wed being all negative away at Leeds)
No Grealish and No Mings and villa beat a very competent and competitive Bristol city who are play off hopefuls.
And by all accounts villa could have scored more than the 2 goals
Midfield dynamism and high quality players who are now deserving of reward by super support by villa faithful
One of the most pleasing and refreshing things with the villa now is the football and types of goals and chances created. Facts are facts and the squad this season and last were goal laden but this is now simply above simply competitive and pragmatic it's a blend made in Birmingham by the hero and coach of the month .
This actually is just wonderful so much positivity to say on this squad and the almighty Smithy !
The wins keep coming
8 is great ! 9 will be fine! 10 we say Amen !
Up the villa !!