Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine

Heroes & Villains => Villa Memories => Topic started by: Brassneck on August 17, 2018, 03:38:36 PM

Title: Jimmy Brown
Post by: Brassneck on August 17, 2018, 03:38:36 PM
This is a question rather than a memory.

Am I right in thinking that Jimmy Brown was the youngest ever player to play for the first team, aged just 15?
Title: Re: Jimmy Brown
Post by: Damo70 on August 17, 2018, 03:39:40 PM
This is a question rather than a memory.

Am I right in thinking that Jimmy Brown was the youngest ever player to play for the first team, aged just 15?

I have always understood that to be the case.
Title: Re: Jimmy Brown
Post by: dave shelley on August 17, 2018, 04:35:14 PM
Pretty sure this is correct.  I was there at his debut, lost 2-1 to Bolton on a night when Docherty dropped Charlie Aitken. I know he was dropped and not injured as he told me, he was sat in the seat behind me.
Title: Re: Jimmy Brown
Post by: Brassneck on August 17, 2018, 05:01:36 PM
Pretty sure this is correct.  I was there at his debut, lost 2-1 to Bolton on a night when Docherty dropped Charlie Aitken. I know he was dropped and not injured as he told me, he was sat in the seat behind me.

Giving your age away there Dave.

I actually saw him play myself, just after his debut.  It was against Hull and we came back from 0-2 down to win 3-2.  Can't remember anything about it though sadly.
Title: Re: Jimmy Brown
Post by: dave.woodhall on August 17, 2018, 05:48:00 PM
He was also our youngest captain.
Title: Re: Jimmy Brown
Post by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on August 17, 2018, 09:34:53 PM
Part of the 1972 youth cup winning team beating Liverpool which also included Brian and Alan Little, John Gidman, Bobby McDonald, and Jake Findlay.

The Doc said we were looking at a future Scotland captain, I think he still lives round Birmingham.
Title: Re: Jimmy Brown
Post by: steamer on August 17, 2018, 10:04:46 PM
I think I remember him giving Francis a bit off a kicking
Title: Re: Jimmy Brown
Post by: SteveN on August 17, 2018, 10:08:33 PM
I also saw his debut and a few more games he played.  I don't remember whether he was any good.
Title: Re: Jimmy Brown
Post by: Flamingo Lane on August 18, 2018, 02:00:21 PM
15 years and 349 days, to be exact, v Bolton on 17/9/1969.
Title: Re: Jimmy Brown
Post by: PGW on August 19, 2018, 11:56:56 AM
Pretty sure this is correct.  I was there at his debut, lost 2-1 to Bolton on a night when Docherty dropped Charlie Aitken. I know he was dropped and not injured as he told me, he was sat in the seat behind me.

Giving your age away there Dave.

I actually saw him play myself, just after his debut.  It was against Hull and we came back from 0-2 down to win 3-2.  Can't remember anything about it though sadly.
David Rudge with the winner and i don't think i've ever seen a goal celebrated with team mates since.

I met up with Davie Rudge many years later and made the point of asking why. The players basic salary was crap in those days but under Tommy Doc the win bonuses
were huge, and that being Villas first win of the season brought them their first win bonus, cue celebration.
Jimmy Brown certainly does live around Birmingham...the last time i saw him was in the Olde Royal in Church St. a couple of years ago.
Title: Re: Jimmy Brown
Post by: Godfrey Brian on August 21, 2018, 10:38:42 PM
That Hull game was one of my early ones and the first which really hooked me as a Villa fan.Coming back from two down helped. Standing three quarters  back on The Hole contributed too. Chatterley, Rudge and Godfrey were the scorers. Memory tells me that it was packed out - the stats show less than 24000 were there!

Jimmy Brown went on to work for West Midlands Probation Service as a Community Service Officer.
Title: Re: Jimmy Brown
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on August 22, 2018, 06:41:12 PM
In the 90s I worked for Kent Social Services and a lady who worked for me, on discovering I was a Villa supporter, told me she was a former player’s cousin - Jimmy Brown. I was excited to know more, as I was resigned to this being a footballing wilderness and the sheer randomness of it being Jimmy...but she knew nothing apart from the fact that he played for us and was nice.

Yes, it’s a lame story.
Title: Re: Jimmy Brown
Post by: pooligan on August 24, 2018, 12:18:15 PM
When Jimmy Brown arrived at the Villa some of my school friends and i were very friendly with him .He was staying in digs in a house half way up Marsh Hill and he was a great guy .Then when Tommy Doc picked him for the first team ,he changed and had no time for us .My best memory of him is marking Trevor Francis out of the two F A Youth cup matches which was no mean feat at the time .
Title: Re: Jimmy Brown
Post by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on August 24, 2018, 09:45:41 PM
When Jimmy Brown arrived at the Villa some of my school friends and i were very friendly with him .He was staying in digs in a house half way up Marsh Hill and he was a great guy .Then when Tommy Doc picked him for the first team ,he changed and had no time for us .My best memory of him is marking Trevor Francis out of the two F A Youth cup matches which was no mean feat at the time .

We had some incredible attendances for those youth cup games. We started the first round against Boldmere St Michaels and there was about 2k, the Blues game in R4 pulled in getting on for 20k, Arsenal & Chelsea in R5 and S/F got in excess of 10k and the Liverpool final was close to 20k again. Impressive figures and we were still in the 3rd division.
As regards Jimmy marking 'mile and a bit' Francis out the games, bear in mind he was probably getting plenty of practice in training against the far superior Sir Brian.   
Title: Re: Jimmy Brown
Post by: Flamingo Lane on August 25, 2018, 07:58:26 AM

We had some incredible attendances for those youth cup games. We started the first round against Boldmere St Michaels and there was about 2k, the Blues game in R4 pulled in getting on for 20k, Arsenal & Chelsea in R5 and S/F got in excess of 10k and the Liverpool final was close to 20k again. Impressive figures and we were still in the 3rd division.
As regards Jimmy marking 'mile and a bit' Francis out the games, bear in mind he was probably getting plenty of practice in training against the far superior Sir Brian.   
[/quote]

I went to every one of those Youth Cup games, plus the one at St Andrews.  The replay at Villa Park will have been mentioned in the Wettest Games thread.
Title: Re: Jimmy Brown
Post by: Oscar Arce on September 04, 2018, 02:34:24 PM
Jimmy Brown worked at Birmingham Leisure Centre for years, he's probably retired now though, and I saw him walking to a game at Villa Park last season or maybe the season before, and also met him at Colin Abbott's book launch.
He was indeed Villa's youngest ever player and The Doc made him skipper too, way too much pressure at such a young age which he eluded to himself, and he ended up retiring early after playing in Greece, I think.
He was a tough tackler, today he'd be described as a 'holding midfielder'.
Title: Re: Jimmy Brown
Post by: Dazvillain on December 02, 2018, 09:19:31 PM
Loved watching him play along with Lionel MARTIN for worcester city in late 70’s early 80’s..... class
Title: Re: Jimmy Brown
Post by: SirSteveUK on December 04, 2018, 10:34:41 PM
Jimmy Brown worked at Birmingham Leisure Centre for years, he's probably retired now though, and I saw him walking to a game at Villa Park last season or maybe the season before, and also met him at Colin Abbott's book launch.
He was indeed Villa's youngest ever player and The Doc made him skipper too, way too much pressure at such a young age which he eluded to himself, and he ended up retiring early after playing in Greece, I think.
He was a tough tackler, today he'd be described as a 'holding midfielder'.

Wiki shows him playing at Pompey (after Greece) and then lastly at Hibs
Title: Re: Jimmy Brown
Post by: SirSteveUK on December 04, 2018, 10:38:47 PM
Bolto
Pretty sure this is correct.  I was there at his debut, lost 2-1 to Bolton on a night when Docherty dropped Charlie Aitken. I know he was dropped and not injured as he told me, he was sat in the seat behind me.

Giving your age away there Dave.

I actually saw him play myself, just after his debut.  It was against Hull and we came back from 0-2 down to win 3-2.  Can't remember anything about it though sadly.
David Rudge with the winner and i don't think i've ever seen a goal celebrated with team mates since.

I met up with Davie Rudge many years later and made the point of asking why. The players basic salary was crap in those days but under Tommy Doc the win bonuses
were huge, and that being Villas first win of the season brought them their first win bonus, cue celebration.
Jimmy Brown certainly does live around Birmingham...the last time i saw him was in the Olde Royal in Church St. a couple of years ago.


I think Charlie was dropped for the prior game - v Watford away - lost 0-3. LB was a player called Rowan ??
then Keith Bradley played against Bolton.

Win bonuses ??  They only won 7 games all season !!!!
 
Title: Re: Jimmy Brown
Post by: Border villan on December 05, 2018, 04:35:42 PM
Saw him many years ago, after he had retired, before a home match. He was sitting quietly in the Lower Grounds (now closed as a pub) having a pint.
Title: Re: Jimmy Brown
Post by: dcdavecollett on December 05, 2018, 06:18:52 PM
SSUK.

It was Scottish left-back Brian Rowan and, yes, he made his debut away at Watford. Typical, impetuous decision to include a young player on debut in a struggling team, which sums Docherty up well.


I went -we were awful and lost 3-0. Rowan never played again.
Title: Re: Jimmy Brown
Post by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on December 05, 2018, 08:55:38 PM
SSUK.

It was Scottish left-back Brian Rowan and, yes, he made his debut away at Watford. Typical, impetuous decision to include a young player on debut in a struggling team, which sums Docherty up well.


I went -we were awful and lost 3-0. Rowan never played again.

Probably the worst Villa performance I have ever seen. Watford were down near the bottom as well and Brian Tiler somehow managed to head through his own goal from the edge of the area. We also lost 0-2 to them at home. Rowan made 12 more appearances in English football (for Watford!).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Rowan

http://www.astonvillaplayerdatabase.com/1187.html
Title: Re: Jimmy Brown
Post by: Oscar Arce on December 06, 2018, 11:16:54 AM
I think Docherty said at the time about Rowan he was 'the new Eddie McReadie'...no pressure.
For those youngsters McReadie at the time was playing in the top flight and a full Scottish International left back.
Rowan was hopelessly out of his depth in that game, Docherty liked to hide behind young players and fell out with most of the senior players including those he fined and bombed out after a night out on a Thursday night, Hole, Edwards, Godfrey, Ferguson.
Title: Re: Jimmy Brown
Post by: dcdavecollett on December 07, 2018, 04:46:47 PM
All this is true.

Watford's second goal. as I recall, was a forty-five yard free-kick that sailed into the net as John Dunn completely missed it!
Title: Re: Jimmy Brown
Post by: pooligan on December 21, 2018, 09:59:24 PM
John Dunn,what a awful keeper he was .Like Nyland these days you never felt confident we would keep a clean sheet  If i remember correctly the Doc replaced Dunn soon afterwards with a another keeper called John Phillips and he was probably even worse
Title: Re: Jimmy Brown
Post by: Bernie on December 21, 2018, 10:32:20 PM
John Dunn,what a awful keeper he was .Like Nyland these days you never felt confident we would keep a clean sheet  If i remember correctly the Doc replaced Dunn soon afterwards with a another keeper called John Phillips and he was probably even worse
57 That's brought to mind names of other goalies from around that era, Evan Williams, Tommy Hughes (the Notts County penalty saver)....
Title: Re: Jimmy Brown
Post by: dave shelley on December 21, 2018, 10:44:26 PM
John Dunn,what a awful keeper he was .Like Nyland these days you never felt confident we would keep a clean sheet  If i remember correctly the Doc replaced Dunn soon afterwards with a another keeper called John Phillips and he was probably even worse
57 That's brought to mind names of other goalies from around that era, Evan Williams, Tommy Hughes (the Notts County penalty saver)....

Both those last two, Williams and Hughes were far, far worse than John Dunn.  I've been wracking my brains to think of a goalkeeper that made the transition from youth team to first team for us.  The closest I can come is Jake Finlay and you can't really say he was a first team regular.
Title: Re: Jimmy Brown
Post by: wittonwarrior on December 21, 2018, 11:26:31 PM
In his book Brian Little is not overly a fan of Jimmy Brown.  it's always a gamble pushing someone forward so young.   
Title: Re: Jimmy Brown
Post by: PGW on December 22, 2018, 12:15:39 AM
John Dunn,what a awful keeper he was .Like Nyland these days you never felt confident we would keep a clean sheet  If i remember correctly the Doc replaced Dunn soon afterwards with a another keeper called John Phillips and he was probably even worse
57 That's brought to mind names of other goalies from around that era, Evan Williams, Tommy Hughes (the Notts County penalty saver)....
Don't forget Geoff Crudgington
Title: Re: Jimmy Brown
Post by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on December 22, 2018, 10:33:43 AM
John Dunn,what a awful keeper he was .Like Nyland these days you never felt confident we would keep a clean sheet  If i remember correctly the Doc replaced Dunn soon afterwards with a another keeper called John Phillips and he was probably even worse
57 That's brought to mind names of other goalies from around that era, Evan Williams, Tommy Hughes (the Notts County penalty saver)....

Both those last two, Williams and Hughes were far, far worse than John Dunn.  I've been wracking my brains to think of a goalkeeper that made the transition from youth team to first team for us.  The closest I can come is Jake Finlay and you can't really say he was a first team regular.

I assume we don't count Spinky as he was 18 when he came to us from Chelmsford. I checked back the records of the likes of Sims, Hardy, Rutherford and a few others in the distant past, and I cannot find one that came through starting with us.
In terms of our youth system producing any goalkeeping talent at all that went onto a fruitful career elsewhere  there only seems to be Jake Findlay and Boaz Myhill. 
Title: Re: Jimmy Brown
Post by: dave shelley on December 22, 2018, 01:07:01 PM
I think Kevin Keelan began his career with us.  I'm not sure did he ever make the first team and I can't be arsed to look it up but he went on to have a good career with Norwich.  And as PGW mentioned, Geoff Crudgington played one or two games for us but never really made the grade.  I think he went on to play league football for someone else but again, can't be sure.
Title: Re: Jimmy Brown
Post by: Exeter 77 on December 22, 2018, 02:17:03 PM
I remember Geoff Crudgington being Plymouth's keeper in the 1979/80 Panini album.
Title: Re: Jimmy Brown
Post by: pooligan on December 22, 2018, 04:02:12 PM
Michael Oakes is the only keeper i can recall coming through the ranks He played 50 odd games
Title: Re: Jimmy Brown
Post by: SteveN on December 22, 2018, 04:05:58 PM
I saw Kevin Keelan for the reserves on my first ever visit to Villa Park.  I'd love to know the line up of that team and the opposition.  My guess is that it was Norwich and I imagined BFR and/or his brother played.
Title: Re: Jimmy Brown
Post by: dave shelley on December 22, 2018, 04:45:02 PM
Michael Oakes is the only keeper i can recall coming through the ranks He played 50 odd games

Yep, forgot about him.
Title: Re: Jimmy Brown
Post by: Perthvillan on December 23, 2018, 08:23:52 AM
Michael Oakes was a decent keeper and probably the best of the ones mentioned previously who had come through the youth system at Villa.
I think he went to Wolves after us.
Title: Re: Jimmy Brown
Post by: dcdavecollett on December 23, 2018, 08:09:18 PM
Yes, Oakesy was a good back-up 'keeper for Bosnich. When Bozzie was injured, he had a long run in the side but lost confidence when we hit a bad run, with defenders injured and we couldn't keep a clean sheet -a bit like now!!
Title: Re: Jimmy Brown
Post by: Oscar Arce on January 07, 2019, 11:15:58 AM
Crudgington became a good goalkeeper in the lower leagues and is still a bit of a legend in Plymouth and Crewe where he made a career over 600 appearances. He later coached at  Argyle and left as recently as 2011.
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