Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Villa Memories => Topic started by: Brassneck on August 17, 2018, 03:38:36 PM
-
This is a question rather than a memory.
Am I right in thinking that Jimmy Brown was the youngest ever player to play for the first team, aged just 15?
-
This is a question rather than a memory.
Am I right in thinking that Jimmy Brown was the youngest ever player to play for the first team, aged just 15?
I have always understood that to be the case.
-
Pretty sure this is correct. I was there at his debut, lost 2-1 to Bolton on a night when Docherty dropped Charlie Aitken. I know he was dropped and not injured as he told me, he was sat in the seat behind me.
-
Pretty sure this is correct. I was there at his debut, lost 2-1 to Bolton on a night when Docherty dropped Charlie Aitken. I know he was dropped and not injured as he told me, he was sat in the seat behind me.
Giving your age away there Dave.
I actually saw him play myself, just after his debut. It was against Hull and we came back from 0-2 down to win 3-2. Can't remember anything about it though sadly.
-
He was also our youngest captain.
-
Part of the 1972 youth cup winning team beating Liverpool which also included Brian and Alan Little, John Gidman, Bobby McDonald, and Jake Findlay.
The Doc said we were looking at a future Scotland captain, I think he still lives round Birmingham.
-
I think I remember him giving Francis a bit off a kicking
-
I also saw his debut and a few more games he played. I don't remember whether he was any good.
-
15 years and 349 days, to be exact, v Bolton on 17/9/1969.
-
Pretty sure this is correct. I was there at his debut, lost 2-1 to Bolton on a night when Docherty dropped Charlie Aitken. I know he was dropped and not injured as he told me, he was sat in the seat behind me.
Giving your age away there Dave.
I actually saw him play myself, just after his debut. It was against Hull and we came back from 0-2 down to win 3-2. Can't remember anything about it though sadly.
David Rudge with the winner and i don't think i've ever seen a goal celebrated with team mates since.
I met up with Davie Rudge many years later and made the point of asking why. The players basic salary was crap in those days but under Tommy Doc the win bonuses
were huge, and that being Villas first win of the season brought them their first win bonus, cue celebration.
Jimmy Brown certainly does live around Birmingham...the last time i saw him was in the Olde Royal in Church St. a couple of years ago.
-
That Hull game was one of my early ones and the first which really hooked me as a Villa fan.Coming back from two down helped. Standing three quarters back on The Hole contributed too. Chatterley, Rudge and Godfrey were the scorers. Memory tells me that it was packed out - the stats show less than 24000 were there!
Jimmy Brown went on to work for West Midlands Probation Service as a Community Service Officer.
-
In the 90s I worked for Kent Social Services and a lady who worked for me, on discovering I was a Villa supporter, told me she was a former player’s cousin - Jimmy Brown. I was excited to know more, as I was resigned to this being a footballing wilderness and the sheer randomness of it being Jimmy...but she knew nothing apart from the fact that he played for us and was nice.
Yes, it’s a lame story.
-
When Jimmy Brown arrived at the Villa some of my school friends and i were very friendly with him .He was staying in digs in a house half way up Marsh Hill and he was a great guy .Then when Tommy Doc picked him for the first team ,he changed and had no time for us .My best memory of him is marking Trevor Francis out of the two F A Youth cup matches which was no mean feat at the time .
-
When Jimmy Brown arrived at the Villa some of my school friends and i were very friendly with him .He was staying in digs in a house half way up Marsh Hill and he was a great guy .Then when Tommy Doc picked him for the first team ,he changed and had no time for us .My best memory of him is marking Trevor Francis out of the two F A Youth cup matches which was no mean feat at the time .
We had some incredible attendances for those youth cup games. We started the first round against Boldmere St Michaels and there was about 2k, the Blues game in R4 pulled in getting on for 20k, Arsenal & Chelsea in R5 and S/F got in excess of 10k and the Liverpool final was close to 20k again. Impressive figures and we were still in the 3rd division.
As regards Jimmy marking 'mile and a bit' Francis out the games, bear in mind he was probably getting plenty of practice in training against the far superior Sir Brian.
-
We had some incredible attendances for those youth cup games. We started the first round against Boldmere St Michaels and there was about 2k, the Blues game in R4 pulled in getting on for 20k, Arsenal & Chelsea in R5 and S/F got in excess of 10k and the Liverpool final was close to 20k again. Impressive figures and we were still in the 3rd division.
As regards Jimmy marking 'mile and a bit' Francis out the games, bear in mind he was probably getting plenty of practice in training against the far superior Sir Brian.
[/quote]
I went to every one of those Youth Cup games, plus the one at St Andrews. The replay at Villa Park will have been mentioned in the Wettest Games thread.
-
Jimmy Brown worked at Birmingham Leisure Centre for years, he's probably retired now though, and I saw him walking to a game at Villa Park last season or maybe the season before, and also met him at Colin Abbott's book launch.
He was indeed Villa's youngest ever player and The Doc made him skipper too, way too much pressure at such a young age which he eluded to himself, and he ended up retiring early after playing in Greece, I think.
He was a tough tackler, today he'd be described as a 'holding midfielder'.
-
Loved watching him play along with Lionel MARTIN for worcester city in late 70’s early 80’s..... class
-
Jimmy Brown worked at Birmingham Leisure Centre for years, he's probably retired now though, and I saw him walking to a game at Villa Park last season or maybe the season before, and also met him at Colin Abbott's book launch.
He was indeed Villa's youngest ever player and The Doc made him skipper too, way too much pressure at such a young age which he eluded to himself, and he ended up retiring early after playing in Greece, I think.
He was a tough tackler, today he'd be described as a 'holding midfielder'.
Wiki shows him playing at Pompey (after Greece) and then lastly at Hibs
-
Bolto
Pretty sure this is correct. I was there at his debut, lost 2-1 to Bolton on a night when Docherty dropped Charlie Aitken. I know he was dropped and not injured as he told me, he was sat in the seat behind me.
Giving your age away there Dave.
I actually saw him play myself, just after his debut. It was against Hull and we came back from 0-2 down to win 3-2. Can't remember anything about it though sadly.
David Rudge with the winner and i don't think i've ever seen a goal celebrated with team mates since.
I met up with Davie Rudge many years later and made the point of asking why. The players basic salary was crap in those days but under Tommy Doc the win bonuses
were huge, and that being Villas first win of the season brought them their first win bonus, cue celebration.
Jimmy Brown certainly does live around Birmingham...the last time i saw him was in the Olde Royal in Church St. a couple of years ago.
I think Charlie was dropped for the prior game - v Watford away - lost 0-3. LB was a player called Rowan ??
then Keith Bradley played against Bolton.
Win bonuses ?? They only won 7 games all season !!!!
-
Saw him many years ago, after he had retired, before a home match. He was sitting quietly in the Lower Grounds (now closed as a pub) having a pint.
-
SSUK.
It was Scottish left-back Brian Rowan and, yes, he made his debut away at Watford. Typical, impetuous decision to include a young player on debut in a struggling team, which sums Docherty up well.
I went -we were awful and lost 3-0. Rowan never played again.
-
SSUK.
It was Scottish left-back Brian Rowan and, yes, he made his debut away at Watford. Typical, impetuous decision to include a young player on debut in a struggling team, which sums Docherty up well.
I went -we were awful and lost 3-0. Rowan never played again.
Probably the worst Villa performance I have ever seen. Watford were down near the bottom as well and Brian Tiler somehow managed to head through his own goal from the edge of the area. We also lost 0-2 to them at home. Rowan made 12 more appearances in English football (for Watford!).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Rowan
http://www.astonvillaplayerdatabase.com/1187.html
-
I think Docherty said at the time about Rowan he was 'the new Eddie McReadie'...no pressure.
For those youngsters McReadie at the time was playing in the top flight and a full Scottish International left back.
Rowan was hopelessly out of his depth in that game, Docherty liked to hide behind young players and fell out with most of the senior players including those he fined and bombed out after a night out on a Thursday night, Hole, Edwards, Godfrey, Ferguson.
-
All this is true.
Watford's second goal. as I recall, was a forty-five yard free-kick that sailed into the net as John Dunn completely missed it!
-
John Dunn,what a awful keeper he was .Like Nyland these days you never felt confident we would keep a clean sheet If i remember correctly the Doc replaced Dunn soon afterwards with a another keeper called John Phillips and he was probably even worse
-
John Dunn,what a awful keeper he was .Like Nyland these days you never felt confident we would keep a clean sheet If i remember correctly the Doc replaced Dunn soon afterwards with a another keeper called John Phillips and he was probably even worse
57 That's brought to mind names of other goalies from around that era, Evan Williams, Tommy Hughes (the Notts County penalty saver)....
-
John Dunn,what a awful keeper he was .Like Nyland these days you never felt confident we would keep a clean sheet If i remember correctly the Doc replaced Dunn soon afterwards with a another keeper called John Phillips and he was probably even worse
57 That's brought to mind names of other goalies from around that era, Evan Williams, Tommy Hughes (the Notts County penalty saver)....
Both those last two, Williams and Hughes were far, far worse than John Dunn. I've been wracking my brains to think of a goalkeeper that made the transition from youth team to first team for us. The closest I can come is Jake Finlay and you can't really say he was a first team regular.
-
In his book Brian Little is not overly a fan of Jimmy Brown. it's always a gamble pushing someone forward so young.
-
John Dunn,what a awful keeper he was .Like Nyland these days you never felt confident we would keep a clean sheet If i remember correctly the Doc replaced Dunn soon afterwards with a another keeper called John Phillips and he was probably even worse
57 That's brought to mind names of other goalies from around that era, Evan Williams, Tommy Hughes (the Notts County penalty saver)....
Don't forget Geoff Crudgington
-
John Dunn,what a awful keeper he was .Like Nyland these days you never felt confident we would keep a clean sheet If i remember correctly the Doc replaced Dunn soon afterwards with a another keeper called John Phillips and he was probably even worse
57 That's brought to mind names of other goalies from around that era, Evan Williams, Tommy Hughes (the Notts County penalty saver)....
Both those last two, Williams and Hughes were far, far worse than John Dunn. I've been wracking my brains to think of a goalkeeper that made the transition from youth team to first team for us. The closest I can come is Jake Finlay and you can't really say he was a first team regular.
I assume we don't count Spinky as he was 18 when he came to us from Chelmsford. I checked back the records of the likes of Sims, Hardy, Rutherford and a few others in the distant past, and I cannot find one that came through starting with us.
In terms of our youth system producing any goalkeeping talent at all that went onto a fruitful career elsewhere there only seems to be Jake Findlay and Boaz Myhill.
-
I think Kevin Keelan began his career with us. I'm not sure did he ever make the first team and I can't be arsed to look it up but he went on to have a good career with Norwich. And as PGW mentioned, Geoff Crudgington played one or two games for us but never really made the grade. I think he went on to play league football for someone else but again, can't be sure.
-
I remember Geoff Crudgington being Plymouth's keeper in the 1979/80 Panini album.
-
Michael Oakes is the only keeper i can recall coming through the ranks He played 50 odd games
-
I saw Kevin Keelan for the reserves on my first ever visit to Villa Park. I'd love to know the line up of that team and the opposition. My guess is that it was Norwich and I imagined BFR and/or his brother played.
-
Michael Oakes is the only keeper i can recall coming through the ranks He played 50 odd games
Yep, forgot about him.
-
Michael Oakes was a decent keeper and probably the best of the ones mentioned previously who had come through the youth system at Villa.
I think he went to Wolves after us.
-
Yes, Oakesy was a good back-up 'keeper for Bosnich. When Bozzie was injured, he had a long run in the side but lost confidence when we hit a bad run, with defenders injured and we couldn't keep a clean sheet -a bit like now!!
-
Crudgington became a good goalkeeper in the lower leagues and is still a bit of a legend in Plymouth and Crewe where he made a career over 600 appearances. He later coached at Argyle and left as recently as 2011.