Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Meanwood Villa on July 29, 2018, 11:16:56 AM
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What do people think?
This has been very different at various points over the summer. A few weeks back I think most people would have settled for solid mid table and still being a going concern. Now the new owners are in and we might be keeping Jack et al are we thinking top six minimum? Or does FFP/timing of the new owners' arrival mean this is unrealistic?
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If we keep Grealish and Chester and can add a decent centre half and striker, we should be in the promotion picture again. Lot of 'ifs' there though!!
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Promotion.
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Promotion
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Promotion.
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Champions, that’s the target. Stranger things have happened.
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We need some players in a couple of key positions but even now we should think play offs as a bare minimum. I also think Bruce will clearly understand that no excuses will be acceptable in hisc3rd year.
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Don't think we'll challenge for top 2 this year.
Top 6 should be realistic although I expect it will be more keep in touch with them for first half of the season and then come on strong after xmas, probably after a managerial change.
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Seems pretty conclusive so far. Perhaps I'm being pessimistic but currently we've got a weaker squad and the same manager so promotion doesn't seem likely, certainly not automatically.
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Undefeated league winners.
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Seems pretty conclusive so far. Perhaps I'm being pessimistic but currently we've got a weaker squad and the same manager so promotion doesn't seem likely, certainly not automatically.
I think if we are to go up this year, it will be more Fulham style. Remember they were about 12th in December before storming the second half of the year.
My view is the new ownership will use the first few months to stabilise things off the pitch e.g. make sure we're on track to make FFP commitments and also sort out the CEO position.
They will have banked on SB keeping us around 8th-10th and so 4-5 points off top 6 with 25 games left. It is still a pretty good first 11 at this level after all.
Then a change at xmas as there will obviously be a run of 1 win in 7-8 games at some stage as that's happened in our two seasons under SB.
I would be surprised if that's at the start as we have a pretty kind opening run of 10 fixtures.
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Just outside the play-offs. Deal with FFP. Hand Bruce his P45 with thanks at the end of season. Rebuild a side from scratch under a new guy.
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We’re Aston Villa. Promotion is the only goal.
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Promotion has to be the target.
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Looking at the level of expectation on here, there may be trouble ahead...........
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It's a target, not an expectation. I expect us to finish about 8th.
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Looking at the level of expectation on here, there may be trouble ahead...........
First 11 is still easily good enough for top half. If you're in the top half you should be in the mix for play offs.
If we have an injury crisis obviously that's a problem as we have little depth beyond the first team currently so he will have to play the kids.
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As it currently stands, having lost two consistent performers from the back 5, we'll do well to be in and around the play off spots.
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As long as Jack stays, which is still not 100% certain, then promotion.
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Not sure i understand the difference ;D End of the day i presume we've decided to work with FFP rather than cop a QPR style fine, so best case scenario is we don't lose any more quality players, so that leaves us with the team that finished 4th minus Johnstone, Terry, snodgrass, grabban, onamah. I'm not sure what money is available, if any but Bruce would need to have the same success or better in the loan market to keep us 4th if that's the way he's going.
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Not sure i understand the difference ;D End of the day i presume we've decided to work with FFP rather than cop a QPR style fine, so best case scenario is we don't lose any more quality players, so that leaves us with the team that finished 4th minus Johnstone, Terry, snodgrass, grabban, onamah. I'm not sure what money is available, if any but Bruce would need to have the same success or better in the loan market to keep us 4th if that's the way he's going.
Yeah that's about it
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Hope for promotion. As champions would be a bonus. Without a trip to Wembley would be an added bonus.
Perhaps we ought to wait for the transfer window to close and for all loaning to be settled before we say what we can expect. This tme mght give us an idea of what the new investors are thinking in terms of obligations to the club and where they see it.
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Promotion, League Cup Winners, FA Cup Winners, most goals scored, fewest goals conceded. No points deductions or massive fines.
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With the players we have now and with the right attitude, we should be challenging at the top. If we approach the game like we did last season, challenging the top will be difficult.
If this is going to be a 'building for the future season, I would accept not getting promotion. The trouble is Bruce is all for the present and I fear another lost season.
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The target should be promotion, as it should be for most of the league. Whether it's a realistic expectation depends on what the squad looks when the window closes.
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I agree the target should be promotion,preferably finishing first or second , otherwise what is the point of our existence
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The target should be promotion, as it should be for most of the league. Whether it's a realistic expectation depends on what the squad looks when the window closes.
I totally agree. This league is a very level playing field and even the likes of smaller clubs like Millwall, Preston and Brentford and newly promoted Blackburn and Wigan will have hopes of the top six. Our aim should be ideally the top two and if not then a play off spot. I have been a consistent backer of Bruce but if we can't achieve a top six finish again this season he needs to go.
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The target should be progress, on and off the field. It wont be the end of the world if we fail to get promoted this year, but we need to see progress in terms player development, playing style, and financial stability so that when we do get promoted, its part of a broader plan. we need to stop the fire drills and panic moves in the belief that promotion must occur at all costs
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Progress, the development of some more youngsters and to be in with a shout again at the final knocking's
On a personal level just to enjoy again like last season
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Don’t get it. Why would our target be anything other than promotion? Doesn’t matter who’s left in our squad, the target has to be promotion. Expectation is a separate question altogether.
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Don’t get it. Why would our target be anything other than promotion? Doesn’t matter who’s left in our squad, the target has to be promotion. Expectation is a separate question altogether.
Exactly this.
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Don’t get it. Why would our target be anything other than promotion? Doesn’t matter who’s left in our squad, the target has to be promotion. Expectation is a separate question altogether.
Agreed, considering this is our 15 season outside the top flight in our history anything less than promotion should be unacceptable. When you look at the money we've spent and the players we have it becomes even clearer that we have to be competing at the top end of the league. However, with Bruce still here my expectation, just like last season, is that we'll be on the edge of the playoffs most of the season (5th-8th) but might go a little up or down if our form coincides nicely with other teams.
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It should be promotion but I can’t see how achievable that is. We’ve got over £30m of strikers, but Kodjia doesn’t look the same player since his injury. McCormack is persona non grata and Hogan has been crap. Unless we get another loan striker like Grabban, I just can’t see where the goals are going to come from.
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Between them our strikers only managed 18 league goals last season so shouldn't be that hard to replicate. For me the big question is will we get anything like the same productivity from elsewhere. We can't rely on Albert having the 2 months of his life again for example.
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Automatic promotion probably out of reach, but we shoudl be good for play-offs again.
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This is it. A lot of pressure on Green, but I really like the look of him. Both his and De Laet's pace, coupled with Jack starting the season, will hopefully give us a bit of something we lacked last term.
We need Kodjia to score 20. Can Hourihane and Albert score 25-30 again? I think Hourihane will get a similar amount, but if Albert doesn't we're reliant on somebody picking up the slack.
Given we're after 4 more, you'd hope that we will be stronger come the end of August.
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Judge us after the loans have come in, but right now it has to be automatic
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Sorry but I think we are living in dream land if we think promotion is possible this year - hope im wrong
I see this as a rebuilding season where we need to integrate youth into the set up
My feeling is we will have the typical Villa start and by end of October Bruce will be gone ....new manager has two months to look at squad before transfer window ready to make chances
Do people think if this investment had taken place early June that Bruce would still be here as I dont. I believe its only because the season was 10 days away that they retained him
I hope that both Bruce and Villa prove me totally wrong but I believe last year was a better chance of promotion that this
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I don't see why it's dream land at all.
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We'll be there or thereabouts.
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If Cardiff can go up automatically then anything is possible. I wouldn't be surprised if we went up automatically or finished mid-table, after all, that's the Championship for you.
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Obviously champion’s but minimum second place.
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Sorry but I think we are living in dream land if we think promotion is possible this year - hope im wrong
I see this as a rebuilding season where we need to integrate youth into the set up
My feeling is we will have the typical Villa start and by end of October Bruce will be gone ....new manager has two months to look at squad before transfer window ready to make chances
Do people think if this investment had taken place early June that Bruce would still be here as I dont. I believe its only because the season was 10 days away that they retained him
I hope that both Bruce and Villa prove me totally wrong but I believe last year was a better chance of promotion that this
As a target, it has to be automatic promotion.
My expectation is that the manager will get the bullet pre-Xmas and we’ll scrape into the play-offs.
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Still don't think its going to be easy as some people think. After all it wasn't the last two seasons
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Only three teams finished above us last year, and they have all been promoted so we no longer have to worry about them. Of course we don't know how well the relegated teams will do, or what improvements the teams that finished below us will be able to make.
However, to dismiss our chances of promotion as being "in dreamland" is just ludicrously negative. Especially when shite like Huddersfield and Cardiff have managed it.
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Mid-table sadly. I'll be back to eat a slice of humble pie if they prove me wrong.
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Promotion
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Difficult to say for now, but I expect top 6 place. I think we might not get enough for promotion, but we need to be brave giving youth a chance to shine.
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Bit early to say with just under a fortnight of the proper window still to go. I have said play offs, I am being a tad optimistic. There is no reason why we cannot get off to a really good start with the fixtures we have.
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It’s building up like just before the playoffs. Not a good sign but a much better place than this time last week
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Big if, but, if we keep the players we now have and, Bruce bloods some of the youngsters plus, introducing a couple of players with a quick turn of pace, I'm hoping for top two. May seem a bridge too far, for the coming season but, imagine how the whole Club and supporters have had their spirits raised by the new owners!! It will have worked wonders considering where we were a couple of weeks ago.
Fingers crossed that someone has had a word with Bruce that starting on the front foot will bring its rewards. I'm now looking forward to the new season and hope it brings us fans and the Club the success that Aston Villa deserve.
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We are Aston Villa. We're here to fuck off.
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Last season was our chance for top 2, would be amazed if we're in contention this season.
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I hope that both Bruce and Villa prove me totally wrong but I believe last year was a better chance of promotion that this
It was but you have to hope/believe we'll learn from the mistakes made last season.
Promotion for me.
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With a Bruce in charge we have already conceded a promotion challenge.
It’s mid table and go again when the new owners have got the leadership issues sorted out.
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There isn't a Wolves or a Fulham to contend with this year, but we do have a few more nasty derbies to play, what with West Brom now down with us.
I think Derby will surprise everyone, and have a sneaky suspicion that Middlesbrough will be up there.
4th again for me, and playoff final redemption as we beat Swansea in the final.
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Bit early to say with just under a fortnight of the proper window still to go. I have said play offs, I am being a tad optimistic. There is no reason why we cannot get off to a really good start with the fixtures we have.
On paper yes. In practice, there .must be a risk that the nature of our summer has had a serious destabilising effect on our ability to plan for the season
We might still.ens up selling a couple of big players and bringing in 5 or so within the next 10 days
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The target has to be the top two. Whether we achieve it is another matter.
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Target is always to win whatever league we are in but the reality is I think we will finish sixth in the play offs again.
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The target has to be the top two. Whether we achieve it is another matter.
This for me - Don't expect to achieve it atm and think we'll end up in the play offs again. However, the target should still be top 2. There is nothing really to fear in the division.
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I think Stoke, West Brom, Middlesbrough and Derby will be as good if not better than us. Prior to the takeover I would have been happy with midtable so long as the club could continue to exist. Now it has happened and with the Mendes links, who knows. A quality midfielder to release Grealish and just maybe.
That said, what if Bruce doesn't click with the players being acquired for him? Like Lambert at Wolves.
Top 6 and I'd be very happy, all in.
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I think the pain of last season's Play Off final defeat will spur us on to go and get automatic promotion. I don't see anyone who are superior to us and if the transfer targets that are mentioned come to fruition plus keeping Chester and Grealish I think We will get top 2. Can't wait for the season to start and will be at Hull cheering the boys on.
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I wonder what Bruce has been told the target for the season is, and what he thinks it is in his head. I get the feeling that his unconvincing "there or thereabouts" schtick isn't going to go down very well, which is why I was a bit surprised that he apparently did so well in his meeting with them that it convinced them to keep him on.
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It should be promotion but I can’t see how achievable that is. We’ve got over £30m of strikers, but Kodjia doesn’t look the same player since his injury. McCormack is persona non grata and Hogan has been crap. Unless we get another loan striker like Grabban, I just can’t see where the goals are going to come from.
If we can keep tight at the back with clean sheets, we still need a striker who will play and score regularly. We haven't had anyone able to do this since Kodjia's first season.
Promotion has to be the target but, don't think we will have the best chance with Bruce ball football.
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Very difficult to predict with any confidence. So much depends on the players we bring in now and in January and how long Bruce stays. I can't see us getting promotion with the present squad and the same manager. Even if we keep Jack and Snodgrass comes back we need a goalscorer. But, to answer the question, promotion must be the target. The longer we stay out of the top division, the more difficult it'll be to get back.
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Personally I do not see us in the automatic promotion spots, hopefully top six. A lot depends on who we bring in, defence looks weak.
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If we are targetting mid table, say, does that mean if we are top 6 we should lose a few games to align with the stated target?
Crazy.
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I think that 'target' should be read as 'realistically achievable aim'
Given the circumstances (especially going into the season with no fit strikers), mid-table seems realistic, with making the play-offs being a bonus
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Target - top 2
Expectation as of 30/7 - play offs should be achievable.
Realistically until 1st September no squad in this league will be complete - Prem teams will be looking to offload excess players that haven’t been sold on loan to Champ teams once the transfer deadline closes on 9th August
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I think that 'target' should be read as 'realistically achievable aim'
Given the circumstances (especially going into the season with no fit strikers), mid-table seems realistic, with making the play-offs being a bonus
Steve Bruce may want you to think that way (though I'd have thought he'll be gunning for auto-promotion) but I don't understand why you would.
Based on last season, we're the best team in the division with the unknown quantity being the relegated and promoted teams.
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I agree that we need to wait until after the transfer window to make a call on this.
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I think that 'target' should be read as 'realistically achievable aim'
Given the circumstances (especially going into the season with no fit strikers), mid-table seems realistic, with making the play-offs being a bonus
Steve Bruce may want you to think that way (though I'd have thought he'll be gunning for auto-promotion) but I don't understand why you would.
Based on last season, we're the best team in the division with the unknown quantity being the relegated and promoted teams.
We were 3rd best team in league with Johnstone, Terry and Snodgrass. Steer, Elphick and Elmo as it stands as replacements dosen't look quite as convincing while others who just finished below us are strengthening.
Hopefully we can get some decent players in next few weeks but don't see how our squad is top 2 standard currently.
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Last season there were really only two relegated teams to worry about because it seemed pretty clear that Sunderland were just passing through.
This season, WBA and Stoke look like promotion candidates and Swansea won't be awful.
Even if Chester and Jack stay, Villa are not as strong as side as last season.
Therefore, top of mid-table and maybe scraping into the playoffs seems a reasonable expectation.
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Ok, but this season we've Grealish (so far) and Kodjia, Green too, all back from injury at the start of the season. Whilst I don't think Elphick and DeLaet are world-beaters, they are certainly good enough for this division.
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The target is automatic promotion of course but I don't think we'll achieve it. As things stand, I don't think we're as strong as we were last season - and that was only strong enough for us to get 4th. So I'll be happy with a playoff place.
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Can't call it yet
Depends who stays and signs. Think we look weak at centre back and in goal
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we need four players. If we get the right ones in and lose some dead wood we should be top six.
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At this point and assuming we are about to sell Jack. With the players sold and an unknown keeper signed. I would expect a lower mid table finish. If we replace the players with quality, then possibly the playoffs.
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Top 2
Top 6 at least
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Those 3 points v Wigan were superb despite only making it comfortable in the 94 the minute !
Turning potential dropped points to wins and 2points at any stage is good but this great start , best since 20 years or something of two wins can hopefully continue
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Time to re visit and look at this .
I think top 6 and top 2 are still targets .
And exactly why made the coaching change
This is in part because have to play all the contenders thus hopefully making up lost ground
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Promotion. Preferably automatically.
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Promotion as Champions and win the FA Cup.
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top 2
we are not that far away really which considering how awful we have been is pretty amazing or just damn lucky .
Boro and baggies will be the main threat but I would say 100% play offs
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Play offs. Weakest Championship in the time we've been down here...therefore our best chance.
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If we are still in touch by the January transfer window, I'd say promotion by any means...............but lets see first eh???
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you've got to go on a really sustained period of form to get top two being ten points and 14 teams behind. Play offs would be a real achievement given the weaknesses in the team and the ability to do nothing about it in terms of bringing players in, unless Terry gets his boots back on and/or we get a few freebies in.
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The first target, for me, is to get to January in the playoff places, that only means being 3-4 points better than a bunch of teams so it's not a massive target. If we can then get a couple defenders in we can look at whether the top 2 is realistic, personally I think it will be so long as the gap doesn't get any bigger.
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If we're going to get top 2 then he's going to have to starting winning straight out of the blocks. He may do, but it's unreasonable to expect it. Top 6 is more realistic but to get promotion either way we're going to have to play a fuck's sight better.
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We are four points off the top six and nine points off the top two. With 34 games to play and 102 points to play for. Our target should be to firstly get into the top six and then aim for the top two. It is a very average division and with the possible exception of Albion I think we are as good as anybody else in the league.
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We are four points off the top six and nine points off the top two. With 34 games to play and 102 points to play for. Our target should be to firstly get into the top six and then aim for the top two. It is a very average division and with the possible exception of Albion I think we are as good as anybody else in the league.
And almost all bar a few of the teams above us to play at least twice
This is not over..... it is the begining
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We are four points off the top six and nine points off the top two. With 34 games to play and 102 points to play for. Our target should be to firstly get into the top six and then aim for the top two. It is a very average division and with the possible exception of Albion I think we are as good as anybody else in the league.
As I said on another thread I went to watch WBA last week against Reading and they ain’t anything special by any means but they are clinical for now. My WBA mates said as much too. They are certainly not playing like wolves or Fulham did last year
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Play offs would be great by me.
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play off's minimum
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He’s going to need a bit of time but there’s going to be a lot more pressure than he’s used to. By hook or by crook, we have to go up.
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Fulham came from nowhere last season to go on a twenty-odd game run undefeated. Even a month or two down the line from here, we would be perfectly capable of repeating the act under Smith.
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Promotion has got to be the target automatically but let’s not get too despondent if it dosnt happen this season. It’s gonna take time I think to repair the damage caused by 3 seasons of the previous manager
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Automatic promotion
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Sadly, I think they gave Bruce too long and we face an uphill battle with an unbalanced squad and too big a points gap for top 2.
We should make the play offs.
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That's what I think
Automatic is too much given the weaknesses in our squad plus ten point gap
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Obviously promotion.
Well, there or thereabouts. :o
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13 games until next year.
I reckon we need to be on 40 points by then to be in with a shout of the automatic spots, so 25 points to get - thats 7 wins and 4 draws with 2 losses. Should be doable if they can get the defence sorted.
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If this had happened in the Summer, I'd want top two.
Because of the shitfest left by Bruce. I'd say Playoffs.
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This season, anything bar relegation is fine. If our Deano needs a few months and a summer transfer window to sort out the squad, that's fair enough.
That said, if this were championship manager, I'd look at the table and say playoffs minimum, automatic promotion if I could get a couple of good loans in the January transfer window and bring in a decent defender.
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At the beginning of the season automatic promotion was the target. Smith takes over and I'd guess we are about ten points behind par. Therefore a revised target of 6th and into the lottery of the play-offs.
I'd accept less if there was an identifiable style to our play and we had blooded a few youngsters i.e. built some foundations for future sustainable growth.
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We're going up. It's going to take a lot of doing, but we're not cut adrift yet. Our new Overlord Triumvirate will not want to hang about with this.
Can't wait.
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Sixty and up with a great win at Wembley.
A feast of attacking football!!!
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We seem to be summising that Bruce has left him with a shit defence so it will take until Jan to sort it out. Of course he could play Hutton RB, Chester and Tuanzebe CH and `(unfortunately) Taylor LB it with a decent organised team in front of them! Which just leaves one problem, a dodgy keeper, so it can only be attack attack attack
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3 at the back.
Nyland
Bree Tuanzebe and Chester.
Elmo right, Albert left
Jedi
McGinn Grealish
Abraham Bolasie
Subs; Bunn, Kodjia, El Ghazi, Hogan, BB, Hourihane, Hutton
I'm ignoring keepers.
We just go for it and score 3 a game
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Would be very happy with play offs.
Top 2 is a pipedream given our defence and our attack not quite clicking. Hopeful Dean will sort both by end of the season so we can be really optimistic for 19/20 season.
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It's too early to write off the top 2, especially when we play both twice.
We're going to need a bounce and some organisation at both ends and to then pick up the 2 point average once the bounce subsides.
We'll see anyway. Play Offs ought to be doable.
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It's too early to write off the top 2, especially when we play both twice.
We're going to need a bounce and some organisation at both ends and to then pick up the 2 point average once the bounce subsides.
We'll see anyway. Play Offs ought to be doable.
I’d agree with you, but that defence has to be sorted out first. It’s killing us.
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Just think their are better teams around which is not an unreasonable opinion given we've won once in ten. Our friends from Smethwick who are doing what we should be and scoring 3 or 4 regularly. Boro, Leeds etc. We should've got top 2 last season of course.
Probably our good fortune the league at top end isn't anywhere near as good as last season. We've hardly won a game in two months and still only a couple of points off sixth.
I do think looking at our next four we'll get a bounce. Swansea, Norwich, QPR, Bolton. Really hoping for 8-9 points from that which will get our season up and running properly and is needed when you look at our November-December fixtures.
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It's too early to write off the top 2, especially when we play both twice.
We're going to need a bounce and some organisation at both ends and to then pick up the 2 point average once the bounce subsides.
We'll see anyway. Play Offs ought to be doable.
I’d agree with you, but that defence has to be sorted out first. It’s killing us.
I don't think it can be sorted with the personnel we have to choose from. So the plan B has to be to score more goals than the opposition.
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Just think their are better teams around which is not an unreasonable opinion given we've won once in ten. Our friends from Smethwick who are doing what we should be and scoring 3 or 4 regularly. Boro, Leeds etc. We should've got top 2 last season of course.
Probably our good fortune the league at top end isn't anywhere near as good as last season. We've hardly won a game in two months and still only a couple of points off sixth.
I do think looking at our next four we'll get a bounce. Swansea, Norwich, QPR, Bolton. Really hoping for 8-9 points from that which will get our season up and running properly and is needed when you look at our November-December fixtures.
Better defences and currently more organised teams.
But I look at the Albion's defence and I don't think it's any better than ours. They were iffy at the back when I saw them against Boro and gave up chances to Wednesday at 2-0 that ought to have seen them 3 or 4 down.
I actually think they've got a lot in common with us in being top heavy. But Gayle, Rodriguez, Barnes and Phillips are good at this level. There's no reason why our front 6 cannot compete with that.
You mention Boro, but it's typical Pulis. You score one, chances are you'll get at least a point. They've only scored 14 and he's grinding his way to the Play Offs I feel.
8 points has to be the minimum from the next 4. Get a bounce and we've clawed points back.
Its not going to be easy, but if Smith is able to get the team creating as many chances or close thereto as Brentford then you fancy our forwards to put them away.
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Smith takes over at the same time in the season that Bruce did,
I thought we should have at least made the play offs then so I'm not going to change my mind just because I like this manager
He might have been left a unbalanced squad, but hopefully he's a better manager so there's no reason we shouldnt be in the play off positions at least
if he does a Bruce and finishes 13th we probably got the wrong man......again
but I can't see that happening
in fact I took 25/1 for us to win the league, I know that's asking to much but if we get 2 or 3 wins together and a more attacking style those odds will drop sharply
and I've always been a dreamer
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I’m hoping Dean comes in and has a look at the youth team to see who we have there, although that said I don’t know the youth team that well!
Do we have any decent centre backs there?
Tactics wise I hope he sticks to his ethos of attacking football and doesn’t turn in to Lambert MK2